# Doctors Quitting - Wonderful



## Warrior102 (Jul 9, 2012)

What is this country becoming?

Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller


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## syrenn (Jul 9, 2012)

can you blame them?


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## Lovebears65 (Jul 9, 2012)

I was just about to post this. Crazy..


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## Greenbeard (Jul 9, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ1FeBF_1p0]The Departed -- World Needs Plenty of Bartendas!! - YouTube[/ame]


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## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller


*
The American Medical Association, which endorsed Obamas health care *overhaul, was not able to immediately offer comment on the survey. Spokesperson Heather Lasher Todd said it would take time to review the information in the survey.

Read more: Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller


This is worth all sides of the issue reviewing:

http://www.politifact.com/subjects/health-care/


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

This study should be the topic of a few hundred million of the upcoming SuperPac ads.

This will scare the fuck out of a lot of people.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

I question the validity of an article that posts:  

(SEE ALSO: Jeremiah Wright: &#8216;White racist alien DNA&#8217; running through synapses of Obama&#8217;s brain )


within the article itself.

Have you considered NOT relying on nutters as a news source?


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> This study should be the topic of a few hundred million of the upcoming SuperPac ads.
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> This will scare the fuck out of a lot of people.



Its meant to. You can do that really easy when you dont have to base the fear in actual facts.

Like this one: Romney to open rape camps


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> I question the validity of an article that posts:
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> (SEE ALSO: Jeremiah Wright: White racist alien DNA running through synapses of Obamas brain )
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You think what Obama's mentor and 20 year pastor says should not be quoted?


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## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


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No.
Not really


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## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


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Yeah, I know. Some people really don't like the truth.


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## bodecea (Jul 9, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
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> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



Suuuuure they will.........


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## AquaAthena (Jul 9, 2012)

syrenn said:


> can you blame them?



Nope! They didn't go to school for 11 to 15 years to be dictated to by the government, for their patients healthcare.....


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


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If you had read some of the overview on the survey, you would perhaps not have come across as such an ignorant ass.:

Physician Attitudes Survey - June 2012 | Doctor Patient Medical Association


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## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


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"Truth" and "Politifact" should never be place in the same reply box together


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## daveman (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> I question the validity of an article that posts:
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> (SEE ALSO: Jeremiah Wright: White racist alien DNA running through synapses of Obamas brain )
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http://www.doctorsandpatients.org/images/files/DPMA_SurveyResults.pdf

That's the survey itself.  Feel free to dismiss it because it doesn't kiss Obama's ass.  You know, like you dismissed the article.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

SniperFire said:


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First, lets TRY to actually use our own brains here, shall we?

83% of doctors are going to quit doctoring and do what? Become truck drivers? Bullshit.

second, why would they quit? The Affordable Care Act changes nothing for DOCTORS. It changes INSURANCE. not CARE. so its bullshit again

Third, The article embeds a link to Jerimiah Wright saying that theres ALIEN DNA in Oabamas brain...is it the Greys? Was he abducted and experimented on? Maybe his mother then? Cmon Sniper, even youre not dumb enough to fall for this obvious bullshit story.

For a second, I thought it was The Onion.


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## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


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What are they going to do instead?


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## Sarah G (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


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They're gonna go work at Home Depot.


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> I question the validity of an article that posts:
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> (SEE ALSO: Jeremiah Wright: White racist alien DNA running through synapses of Obamas brain )
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So "Rev." Wright didnt say this:

_They are the foundation, he said of the names he listed. These stones of memory shall serve as a sign among you so that in the future when your children, who only know Oprah and Obama, when our children who speak the language of Nas, 50 Cent, Lil Wayne (Weezy) and Ludacris. When your children ask you who are these people and what do these stones mean, these stones mean, you can tell them what it is that God did to get us from where we were to where we are.
This is how God brought us out, he continued. This is how God brought us over, this is how God brought us through.

Wright later went on to suggest that Americas elite universities infect African Americans with white racist DNA.

Take a baby born an African, as an African in the oven, he said, using Malcolm Xs saying just because a cat has kittens in the oven, that doesnt make them biscuits as a reference point for his riff.

Take that baby him or her away from the African mother, away from the African community, away from the African experience  and put them Africans at the breasts of Yale, Harvard, University of Chicago, those trinity schools, UCLA or U.C. Berkley.* Turn them into biscuits then theyll get that alien DNA all up inside their brain and they will turn on their own people in defense of the ones who are keeping their own people under oppression.*

*There is white racist DNA running through the synapses of their under-brain tissue*, he continued.

They will kill their own kind, defend the enemies of their kind or anyone who is perceived to be the enemy of the milky white way of life._


Yep... this was one of Obama's mentors


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## AquaAthena (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


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Different things. Enterprising people always find a way.


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## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


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Why, is there something on that page that you want to refute? What's "false" on that link?

http://www.politifact.com/subjects/health-care/


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 9, 2012)

We have an impending shortage of doctors because more people will have affordable access to their healthcare needs??

And the conservative solution is...

...make healthcare unaffordable to those people once again, and as long as they go without,

we won't need as many doctors!!

And still people wonder why conservatism is dead...


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## Zxereus (Jul 9, 2012)

I knew the majority of doctors were opposed to Obamacare/Obamatax, but I didn't realize it was to this extent.

To doctors out there, the blame falls sqarely on the wussy shoulders of Democrats, if you are one I would whole heartedly encourage you to change your vote this time and vote against Obama in November. There is only one slim chance of repealing it, and that lies with Romney and enough votes in the House and Senate.

In the meantime, kick a Democrat, they're the assholes that did this to you.


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> second, why would they quit? The Affordable Care Act changes nothing for DOCTORS. It changes INSURANCE. not CARE. so its bullshit again



If you had read he results, you perhaps would not come across as such an ignorant ass.

perhaps


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

and one more thing,


if you read the article it says theres going to be alot more patients wanting care because theyll be covered. 

That places doctors in DEMAND, which means they can either charge more or take on more patients thus increasing their profits. And theyre going to quit? Bullshit.


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 9, 2012)

What do all those disgruntled doctors plan on doing for a living after they leave medicine?

Real jobs?

I don't think so...


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## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

sarah g said:


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lol


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

The Infidel said:


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I dont care if he said Elvis and Jesus are back and holding hands while singing Come Together by the Beatles while walking across the water on their way to woodstock 25.

White Racist Alien DNA??? Embeded into a story about health care? Cmon you cant recognize the yellow journalism?


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Vidi said:
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I laugh in your general direction, nutter.


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

Zxereus said:


> I knew the majority of doctors were opposed to Obamacare/Obamatax, but I didn't realize it was to this extent.



The way he study was conducted, it would be a real stretch to claim that 83% of doctors have considered quitting thanks to Obamatax, because the research really does not support the Daily Caller headline.   83% of those responding to the blanket fax / email request said they have considered quitting.

But obviously, the outrage is legit among doctors and it is another good reason to repeal this turd legislation as soon  as the next Congress is sworn in!


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## NYcarbineer (Jul 9, 2012)

We can import a few more thousands of doctors from places like India and Pakistan.  I'm sure there are plenty more there who wouldn't mind working in America.


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## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


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What can a person who spent years in Medical school and residency do and then some years as a doctor do that won't be affected by "Obamacare"? What about it makes them want to quit, a steady flow of clients and money?


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


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You dont like the content... it shows Obama in a bad light.

Shame on them... dont believe a word they say!!! 

C',mon, your not a crackpot lib... all they were doing was directing you to more stories.
Weird placement, yes... but what about the content?


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

SniperFire said:


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In other words, the article is bullshit.


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> We can import a few more thousands of doctors from places like India and Pakistan.  I'm sure there are plenty more there who wouldn't mind working in America.



'F those doctors', says the derp.

LOL


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## g5000 (Jul 9, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



That the article cites the DPMA, and not the AMA, should have been a huge red flag to you.

The DPMA is a Tea Party organization, and a member of ALEC.  In other words, astroturf.

So, gee, if you survey a bunch of Tea Partiers about how they feel about ObamaCare, is it any wonder most of them say they think it sucks?

This is a non story.


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


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Not at all, nutter.    The headline is misleading.  The article points to the outrageous mistake that is Obamatax, and the need to repeal it in January.


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## PixieStix (Jul 9, 2012)

The following is by a Dr, and there are also comments by other Doctors



> A perfect storm is brewing.  A physician shortage is coming.  Not only will we see a mass physician exodus while our elderly population is exploding, but with increased government intrusion into your healthcare, we will see rural hospitals begin to close their doors as well.  The Central Planners in our government need to be taken to school and educated on the consequences of their flawed economic policies, and we need to return to free market principles in which the patient is the decision maker and the physician is once again allowed to serve them in a way their medical training suggests



Why the physician shortage is a perfect storm


We are in so much trouble. The government grows and we proceed to shrink. Way to go congress, Obama and SCOTUS


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> What do all those disgruntled doctors plan on doing for a living after they leave medicine?
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> *Real jobs?*
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> I don't think so...





NYcarbineer said:


> We can import a few more thousands of doctors from places like India and Pakistan.  *I'm sure there are plenty more there who wouldn't mind working in America.*



Why so much hatred for doctors?


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## Zxereus (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


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Bullshit story ? You think the whole survey was fabricated ? Doctors do not want to wade through government bureacracy, Obamacare is only going to increase that. Just wait and see.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

The Infidel said:


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No it doesnt. It shows Wright in a nutter light. 

What you want me to start posting some of the things Romneys mormon church says and paint Romney with that same brush? 

Its bullshit sensationalism meant to get people like you thinking Obama believes what this idiot over here believes.

Hell I dont agree with everything my pastor says. Soemtimes I think hes dead wrong. But its a decent church with decent people and I like the format. But according to you, if my pstor says soemthing stupid, then I can be blamed for it? bullshit.


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## g5000 (Jul 9, 2012)

Zxereus said:


> I knew the majority of doctors were opposed to Obamacare/Obamatax, but I didn't realize it was to this extent.



It's a survey of a Tea Party organization, so the results are skewed, to say the least.


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## g5000 (Jul 9, 2012)

Zxereus said:


> Bullshit story ? You think the whole survey was fabricated ?



The DPMA is a Tea Party/ALEC astroturf organization.  So...yeah.  A bullshit survey not indicative of the feelings of all US doctors.


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


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The survey was random and 699 doctors responded.


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


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Nevermind... Obama didnt sit there for 20 yrs and listen to that racist POS preacher...? Oh... OK, no biggie.

Nothing to see there... he is pure as the driven LILY WHITE snow.


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


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You haven't seen the survey, have you?


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## Jackson (Jul 9, 2012)

I asked one of my doctors aboout this and he says he now intends to retire within two years.  This is not bullshit.  They work too hard and have paid their dues to not to have the rewards they have expected.  He's a very skilled doctor and will be missed.


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## g5000 (Jul 9, 2012)

SniperFire said:


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Hello?  It was a "random" survey of 699 _Tea Partiers_!  If you did a "random" survey of communist doctors, what percent do you think would respond that the state should control the means of production?

This survey is meaningless.


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## Zxereus (Jul 9, 2012)

SniperFire said:


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Yeah, there's no way 8 out of 10 doctors are going to quit, but it does point to how bad doctors are dreading having new additional government bureacracy that will eventually come.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

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Nonsense.

The Health Insurance industry is a HUGE bureacracy. The ACA by limiting the amount insurance companies can keep for themselves, the profit motive is now for them to decrease the bureacracy.

My wife works for one of the major ones in MN and theyve been working to streamline thier plans and how to get doctors through the system quicker for the last six months anticipating the implimentation of the ACA.


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

The Infidel said:


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Vidi is a fuckiing idiot and really is incapable of being educated.


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## Jackson (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


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Where's your link they are Tea Partiers"


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


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They sent it to 36,000 on a random basis.

Quit while you are behind.


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## Dot Com (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


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you are correct sir  :
Doctor Patient Medical Association - SourceWatch


> Doctor Patient Medical Association
> 
> The Doctor Patient Medical Association (DPMA) and the Patient Power Alliance (PPA) work to repeal health care reform[1] and call themselves a "a nonpartisan association of doctors and patients dedicated to preserving free choice in medicine."[2] *The organization is a member of the National Tea Party Federation*[3] and the "American Grassroots Coalition."[4]
> *Ties to the American Legislative Exchange Council*
> ...


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



Don't Bother the Mindless Supporters of the ACA will dismiss this as Lies. Nothing Bad could ever come of their Bill, No way.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

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Coming from an indoctrinated paid advertisment for the NeoCOn brand like you, I take that as the highest of all compliments.


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## Zxereus (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


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Nonsense my ass ! Just wait a decade or so, this will turn into another government agency with all the bureacracy to go along with it.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


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Wow, did you just make that Up. Where is your Evidence they were all Tea Partiers?


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## PixieStix (Jul 9, 2012)

Jackson said:


> I asked one of my doctors aboout this and he says he now intends to retire within two years.  This is not bullshit.  They work too hard and have paid their dues to not to have the rewards they have expected.  He's a very skilled doctor and will be missed.



I know 3 different Doctors, 2 retired early because of this government intrusion, and one went to work at the VA. Those 3 Doctors are already missed 

One of those Doctors took one look at a family member and knew immediately what the matter was after years of tests ect......skilled and gone.


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## healthmyths (Jul 9, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



And it's because they know the fallacies that Obamacare was passed on!
First there has never been 50 million uninsured when 10 million are not citizens, 14 million already covered by MEDICAID and 17.5 million that don't want, can afford pay out of pocket and under 34 but still misleadingly counted as the great "uninsured"!
Truly 8 million need and want coverage.
The physicians KNOW that if the $100 billion lawyers make from the $600 billion in defensive medicine practices though were taxed 10% and hospitals that have padded and passed sometime 9,000% markup to Medicare and insurance companies also taxed these 8 million would be covered.  Then when the went to emergency rooms they would have to be registered with an insurance company that then gets the claims and using the tax revenue manages their health insurance program... until they could afford their own!

This way lawyers would be paying to see the $600 billiion in duplicate tests would reduce lowers insurance costs lowers premiums more affordable!
Hospitals would NOT be able to markup 9,000% services and save Billions with Medicare/insurance companies again lowering the costs!

Is this plan in effect?  NO!  Why not?  Lawyers gave congress/obama $300 million in 2008 to see that didn't get included!

Tanning salons were taxed sure in Obamacare!
But lawyers????

If that were done.. health care costs would be reduced by 10 to 20% over 5 years!


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

The Infidel said:


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So youre responsible for anything anyone youve ever come in contact with has to say?

Cmon.

Look I judge people based on what THEY say. Not based on what some other person has to say that they happen to know. 

Wouldnt that be interesting?

You know why the right wing cant do that in this election? Because Romney has said EVERYTHING. 

SO they need to distract with what Wright said.

Didnt work in 2008. Wont work this time around either. They really need to write up some new plays. This playbook is old and stale and broken.


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


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> > I asked one of my doctors aboout this and he says he now intends to retire within two years.  This is not bullshit.  They work too hard and have paid their dues to not to have the rewards they have expected.  He's a very skilled doctor and will be missed.
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Well, as that one moron Libtard said, 'F american doctors.  We will get them from Pakistan.'


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## g5000 (Jul 9, 2012)

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Regardless, the DPMA is a Tea Party/ALEC front, so the claim they are "non-partisan" is bullshit, and the results suspect.


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

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Was going to defend ya but..... paid advertisment for the NeoCOn brand ??? Really Dude???


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


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This is one of the Most Nonsensical Rants I have ever heard. Private insurance Companies have always, and will always have Motivation to limit Bureaucracy and Maximize Profits. The aim of the ACA was never to save money by Making Insurance Companies "decrease the Bureaucracy" that's Pure Fiction on your Part, and it highlights your Complete Ignorance of how the Private Sector Works, as well as your Complete Ignorance of the Very Bill you defend. The Bill will add People to the Insurance Companies rolls, and they will add even More Bureaucracy to handle it. Seems you are batting 1000, on being completely wrong. 

I mean seriously you must be going for the Moron of the week award with that Nonsense. The ACA is going to MASSIVELY increase Bureaucracy at the Federal and State Government Levels, and will not cause Insurance Companies to do anything at all like you are describing. 

Jesus man, American really is fucked. So many Ignorant fools.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Jackson said:


> I asked one of my doctors aboout this and he says he now intends to retire within two years.  This is not bullshit.  They work too hard and have paid their dues to not to have the rewards they have expected.  He's a very skilled doctor and will be missed.




So, by that logic, every college graduate is entitled to a good paying job, right?


WOW! Talk about entitlements! Want to show any more of that collectivist streak you got running in you?


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


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Tea Party is actually non-partisan.   But you were obviously wrong about them surveying 'just tea partiers. '


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

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Sniper and I have a very special relationship lol and thanks for the thought though.


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## JakeStarkey (Jul 9, 2012)

The Daily Caller is a far right extremist non-mainstream rag.


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


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I judge folks by who they choose to pal around with, along with their actions and thier words.
I dont know one individual in my life who would say the things that Rev Wright said, nor would I hang with an unrepentant terrorist like Bill Ayers.... 

Associations are VERY important Vidi


Oh, and why do you guys want the Repubix to change their playbook? It will guaratee you guys a win right??? Leave them alone and let them implode..


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## Dot Com (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


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That IS funny. An ALEC/Teaparty poll & we're supposed to take it seriously


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## healthmyths (Jul 9, 2012)

doesn't make a difference... Here are studies and please find fault with it being right winged!!

The experts, 'physicians" in a study said:
(90%) Ninety percent of 1,231 physicians.. surveyed said
     "doctors  overtest and overtreat to protect themselves from malpractice lawsuits.
     "Defensive medicine is when doctors order multiple tests, MRIs and other procedures, not because
    the patient needs  them, but to protect against litigation based on allegations that something should
    have been done but wasn&#8217;t according to the survey published Monday in Archives of Internal Medicine.
    Besides more time-consuming appointments, patients are left with fewer services and less access to
    quality care as doctors either narrow their practices or leave the profession entirely."
http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/E...take-on-trial-lawyers-in-speech-57953202.html


In a recent Gallup survey, physicians attributed 
34 percent of overall healthcare costs to defensive medicine
and 21 percent of their practice to be defensive in nature.

Specifically, they estimated that 35 percent of diagnostic tests,
29 percent of lab tests, 19 percent of hospitalizations,
14 percent of prescriptions, and 8 percent of surgeries were performed to avoid lawsuits.
Liability reform has been estimated to result in anywhere from a 5 percent to a 34 percent reduction in medical expenditures by reducing defensive medicine practices, with
estimates of savings from $54 billion to $650 billion.

The costs of defensive medicine


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> This is one of the Most Nonsensical Rants I have ever heard.



Allow me to introduce you to 'vidi.'

lol


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


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ahhh, well thanks for Playing.

lol

Really, Must be kinda of nice to be willfully Ignorant, and just go through life dismissing any point of view that differs from your own as "suspect"

sure makes things simpler I am sure.


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## Warrior102 (Jul 9, 2012)

Can't argue statistics here folks. 

Just reporting the facts.

American Medicine - soon to be as efficient as the DMV.

The reason MANY, MANY Canadian doctors are working in the U.S. today. 

They quit - took their degrees elsewhere. 

Same now with US docs.....

Obama's fucked up royally.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...



Riiiiiiiiight..the Tea Party is non partisan...LOL...you dont really believe the shit youre slinging do you?


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...



You still swallow?


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## Inthemiddle (Jul 9, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > can you blame them?
> ...



I'm sure they, instead, went to school for 11 to 15 years to quit their careers and wait tables instead.


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...


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## PixieStix (Jul 9, 2012)

If I were a Dr. And I loved being a Dr. I would quit too, it is going to become nothing but a huge bureaucratic nightmare with no compassion for the patient and certainty not the Dr.


Adam Sharp, MD said the following 


> For patients, this means that they will only be able to consume the healthcare that they qualify for or be forced to find another way to obtain the care that they want and need.  It is the second outcome that is the most intriguing, because as shoppers, patients will want to be informed and have choices as they take on more responsibility for the cost and quality of their own care.  This approach works very well with Health Savings Accounts, which were conveniently de-emphasized in the healthcare reform effort.  Like the lightning going to ground, this is the inevitable future for healthcare in this country (assuming the other alternative, an acceleration to a single-payer system does not occur first).







> For physicians  well, it isnt hard to figure out where this is all heading.  EMRs are quickly becoming the instrument by which we are controlled and managed.  As an example, many organizations are already starting to restrict diagnostic testing and therapies via EMR.



Why EMR is a dirty word to most physicians


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> > I asked one of my doctors aboout this and he says he now intends to retire within two years.  This is not bullshit.  They work too hard and have paid their dues to not to have the rewards they have expected.  He's a very skilled doctor and will be missed.
> ...




Yes because when a doctor doesnt like government intrusion the first place they think of to go work is for the VA.

/facepalm

Dont you people think before you post?


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## healthmyths (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > Zxereus said:
> ...



Totally agree with you!  These idiots don't seem to understand the simple process of claim payments meaning premiums coming pay 80% of claims going out!
The insurance companies THEN pay $100 billion a year in federal/state/local and some of the local property taxes that if OBAMA's preference..""I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. Barack Obama on single payer in 2003 
that means HE WANTS the 1,400 for profit with 500,000 employees out of business!
He'd prefer that $100 billion in tax revenue and 500,000 unemployment checks go away and go out!  
WHERE WOULD that money be replaced???


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Inthemiddle said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...




Most of them talking Quitting have made enough to Retire, or will go off to work in some Related field, Teach, What ever. They are just sick of the Broken system, that wants to turn a Profession that takes More Schooling and More Investment than almost any other to get into, and turn it into just another Blue Collar, Government Service Job. 

Doctors are not Assembly Line workers. and Skilled Doctors are in high Demand all around the world. Make it to much of a Head Ache to be one here, and most have the means to go somewhere else, do something else, or simply Retire. 

I swear Liberals are so Shortsighted, They simply refuse to see the negative side of the things they do.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> > Jackson said:
> ...



Clearly you don't


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## SniperFire (Jul 9, 2012)

With all the doctors revolting and the Governors refusing to implement ObamaTax, how soon can we repeal it?


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## PixieStix (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> > Jackson said:
> ...



Don't you read and comprehend before you shoot your mouth off?, so take another read , I said "2 retired early because of the government intrusion". I can only imagine why the 3rd one left. Probably because it was sure pay, but as I said, I can only imagine why he went to work at the VA.


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## Warrior102 (Jul 9, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The Daily Caller is a far right extremist non-mainstream rag.



So they pulled that stat out of their ass?

What's the "correct" number, according to CBS or some other "trustworthy" new source you have, assbrain?


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > Zxereus said:
> ...




Sigh..sorry I thought you might have some idea about the workings of the ACA. 

Insurance Compaies are now required to spend 80-85% of premiums on actual care. This leaves them with 15-20% for administration costs and profits. Anything NOT paid out, has to be refunded to their customers in the form of a rebate...the first rebate checks will go out next month. The adminstration costs of the rebates comes out of the 15-20% therefore cutting into their profits. Therefore, they dont want to have to send those out as it costs them money.

So, in order to cut their costs, they are working to eliminate as much paperwork and hoops as they can so they can increase their profits within the 15-20% as they CANT charge more without paying to send it all back every August.

Maybe before you start throwing out stupidity like "moron of the week" you ought to familarize yoruself with the actual functions of the ACA so you dont look so stupid again.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > PixieStix said:
> ...



LOL the third one went to work directly for the government. Thats how bad its gotten. Damn goevrnment.

Rail some more. Rail some more.

so damn funny

Keep your damned government hands off my medicare! LOL


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## J.E.D (Jul 9, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > can you blame them?
> ...



Yeah, who thought these doctors were in it for the health care of people? How dare Obama try to give them the opportunity to help more people!! That damn socialist!!


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > The Daily Caller is a far right extremist non-mainstream rag.
> ...




Even Sniperfire has said that 83% is a "stretch" based off the actual report. So year, they pulled it out of their ass.


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## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> > I asked one of my doctors aboout this and he says he now intends to retire within two years.  This is not bullshit.  They work too hard and have paid their dues to not to have the rewards they have expected.  He's a very skilled doctor and will be missed.
> ...



Isn't working for the VA, working for big government?


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## Warrior102 (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Start a "neg rep whine" fest, asswipe.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > The Infidel said:
> ...



LOL only what you spit back into the cup...dear god Im fucking playing along now...


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

JosefK said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



So, you actually think all doctors are motivated only by Helping people? 

my god you people are such Idealist.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> If I were a Dr. And I loved being a Dr. I would quit too, it is going to become nothing but a huge bureaucratic nightmare with no compassion for the patient and certainty not the Dr.
> 
> 
> Adam Sharp, MD said the following
> ...



So no change then?

Tell me how many Health Insurance companies pay for things they dont approve?

Can you name even one that pays for things that arent covered?


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

pheonixops said:


> pixiestix said:
> 
> 
> > jackson said:
> ...



thank you!


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...



I am sorry, I thought you people had some idea how Business works. Guess I was wrong. Clearly you think you can simply regulate that an Industry spend (X) amount on (A) leaving them (Y) amount to run their company on and everything will be ok, and costs will go Down. You are such fools.

You actually think you can Regulate them to do more with less, in an industry that survives on a 3% profit margin.

ignorance on a massive level.

Our Problem is not that Insurance Companies spend to Much on Bureaucracy, it's that Care cost to damn Much, Telling Insurance companies to do more with less by law, will DO NOTHING to fix our problems.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > Warrior102 said:
> ...



Why? did someone important neg me?

You seem to think I give a shit about rep. If I did, I would have negged you. I have in fact negged no one and the ONLY person to bring up rep in this thread, was you.

What does that say about you, coward?


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## Amelia (Jul 9, 2012)

We'll be seeing a new generation of doctors bred to conform to bureaucratic requirements. 

They'll have about the mindset of the nurse who not only denied the asthmatic boy his inhaler but didn't have the presence of mind to at least call 911 to come and help the boy she wouldn't help.


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > pixiestix said:
> ...



Working for the VA is probably easier to do, rather than to have the gov't dictate how you run your own office.


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## PixieStix (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> > Jackson said:
> ...



It is sure money,, he will no longer have to wait for the government to decide to pay him and under ACA, he and other Dr.s will have to wait for approval of their money from ACA.

Being a private practitioner of medicine holds a lot of liability these days.  He no longer has to carry a huge amount of malpractice insurance

Geez some of you can't think no further than the end of your own noses


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## PixieStix (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...



Because you are being intellectually dishonest?


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > PixieStix said:
> ...



Because they don't want to.... they knew what ya meant.


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## PratchettFan (Jul 9, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



Wow.  That is a huge majority of doctors.  It really amazes me then that the AMA, the foremost representative organization of the doctors in the country, supported the bill.  T'is a dilema.

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20100319/NEWS/303199956#


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > PixieStix said:
> ...




Youve made the mistake of thinking the ACA is the insurer, it is not. It only dictates the rules by which insurers have to play by, ie, how much of the premiums MUST be paid out in actual CARE.

The ACA is NOT the government is paying for Health Care. That would be a single payer system, which the ACA does not provide.


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## Harry Dresden (Jul 9, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> What do all those disgruntled doctors plan on doing for a living after they leave medicine?
> 
> Real jobs?
> 
> I don't think so...



so being a Doctor is not a REAL job?.....


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > Isn't working for the VA, working for big government?
> ...



Not if we use MC as our Guide. No the "wise" People who wrote that law, Included in the language that the Government must pay all Claims with in 30 Days with out Delay, then if they suspect Fraud they can go after it, after the Fact. Which of course has led to massive MC fraud. 

No reason to think they were any smarter this time around.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



You are Very ignorant dude. One of the largest Parts of the ACA is a Massive expansion of MC, who exactly pays for that again?


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## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > PixieStix said:
> ...



Can you please cite the provision in the ACA that the government is the one that pays them and that the government is the one that decides to pay him? Thanks in advance!


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## JagOnDaRoad (Jul 9, 2012)

Hmm. So, growing up I sat next to the class clown on one side, the junior sorority club & frat party happening on the other, and while they partied every weekend I sat at home studying my calculus and advanced biology courses, earning my 3.93 gpa. Then onto college and more of the same. To med school and the intensity and long hours nearly drained every ounce of life from me, while my parents and I fretted over the growing liability that was my student loan balance. Years passed and I admit that it all seemed worthwhile after the practice I joined rewarded my efforts with an income that made my Dad both jealous and extremely proud. A Doctor. It's been a nice ride.
I am not a doctor.....but I think you get the point.


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## PixieStix (Jul 9, 2012)

Amelia said:


> We'll be seeing a new generation of doctors bred to conform to bureaucratic requirements.
> 
> They'll have about the mindset of the nurse who not only denied the asthmatic boy his inhaler but didn't have the presence of mind to at least call 911 to come and help the boy she wouldn't help.



Why the physician shortage is a perfect storm



> Generation X
> 
> Ah, my favorite generation.  Generation X has a reputation of being like the honey badgerdont caretakes what it wants.
> 
> ...


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## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...



Apt word for it!


Doctors are set to see (at least) a 30% increase in patient load, with no plans in place to increase staff.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



Have you ever read the bill shit for Brains, one of the ways they cover all the uninsured now, is by Asking the States to Expand access to MC. You do know who pays for MC right?

Wow I mean you guys run around like Experts on the ACA, and do not even understand the basics of it.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > Charles_Main said:
> ...



Well according to the Heritage Foundation, you know them right? the ULTRA conservative think tank? The ones who came up with the idea of an individual mandate in the first place?  Yeah them, according to them, a mandate places more people into the category of paying customers. Therefore, more money comes in to the health insurance companies.

Youre railing against something that was the conservative solution and the health insurance companies are creaming themselves over.

But hey, even though thats NOT whats happening here, doing more with less is the American way. Just ask every compnay that tried to survive after Romney laid off 30% of its workforce but expected increases in production.


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



Your being disingenuous... The ACA will clear the way for single payer.

Give it time... eventually we will all be under gov't HC.

Insurance companies CAN NOT sustain themselves when they are required to cover pre-existing conditions, and if they do... you and I wont be able to afford it.

Think of the bigger picture.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...




Not only no plans, we are in a serious Doctor Shortage already and the ACA is not even in full effect yet.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > PixieStix said:
> ...



No youre right on that. Those who are uninsured and cant afford health insurance will be able to be covered through medicaid expansions.

But explain to me how that would be different if they COULD afford health insurance? Do health insurance companies just pay any claim sent their way or is there an approval process as well?


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## Greenbeard (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> second, why would they quit? The Affordable Care Act changes nothing for DOCTORS. It changes INSURANCE. not CARE. so its bullshit again



I'd push back on that assertion a bit. The numbers in the OP are obviously a bit absurd, but I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm sure many doctors _are_ somewhat worried. Many of them--not all--dislike quality measures (particularly those that are available for public inspection), they dislike patient experience surveys, they don't like the idea of smoothing out unexplained variations in care, and they certainly don't like the idea of linking their pay to their performance and the quality of the care they deliver. I'm overgeneralizing--I have particularly great hope for younger doctors.

I'm sure many current docs love an opaque market where they get paid simply for doing things, independent of results. But the trend now is toward accountability and there will no doubt be a great deal of breath-holding and foot-stomping for a bit, as the sentiment behind the OP demonstrates. It'll be an adjustment for some folks. Being held accountable for the quality of your product or the quality of your work always is. 



Charles_Main said:


> This is one of the Most Nonsensical Rants I have ever heard. Private insurance Companies have always, and will always have Motivation to limit Bureaucracy and Maximize Profits.



These are not entirely opposing aims. The financial incentives of unregulated health insurance markets encourage more bureaucracy up to a point.


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## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



Anyone with a single spark of brain activity is aware of how slanted Politifact is.

But I'll start with the second one on the linked page:
Is it true or false that the IRS is the primary enforcer of the ACA Mandate?
That is placing a government entity between me and my care.


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## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



Look it up yourself... its in the _2000 pages _somewhere!!


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## Lakhota (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes, doctors prefer clean, rich patients.  I'm sure Hippocrates would be very proud.

NOVA | The Hippocratic Oath Today


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## Pho_King (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> and one more thing,
> 
> 
> if you read the article it says theres going to be alot more patients wanting care because theyll be covered.
> ...



And I'm sure that, in addition to believing the above, you also believe that the cost of healthcare insurance will simultaneously go down.  And that unicorns are frolicking in veRdant pastures.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...



No dude, I am railing against the ACA, the Heritage Foundation only supported a Mandate, not all the other stuff that is in the ACA, and besides I am an Independent, I really could care less what an conservative think tank says about anything. 

But, are you saying the Heritage Foundation endorsess the MC expansion in the ACA? 

Which is of course what I have been talking about, because you LIARS keep saying the government wont be paying more for peoples health care, when in fact the largest mechanism in the ACA to cover those who can not afford insurance and are not covered now, is to EXPAND access to MC.


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## Douger (Jul 9, 2012)

SHIT ! Gotta call my doc. This thread makes my ass hurt.
 Cost ? ZERO.


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## Inthemiddle (Jul 9, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> We have an impending shortage of doctors because more people will have affordable access to their healthcare needs??



Short answer:  Yes

Answer with context:  Staffing within the health care field in general has been increasingly strained for a long time now.  Doctor shortages eventually started being offset by increasing the load on nurses.  This, of course, was only a temporary fix (and an unsuccessful one at that)  which has lead to a major shortage in nurses.  Nurses are now in greater demand than doctors.  This nursing shortage has, in turn, been somewhat offset by increasing the burden on lower level techs.  However, this is not quite as easy as it nurses themselves are having to live up to higher educational standards, and lower levels of nursing are becoming obsolete as a result.  As demand for health care services increases, staffing shortages will become all the more troublesome.

The real problem, however, is in the shortage of education opportunities.  We don't have enough schools, we don't have enough classes, we don't have enough post-education training facilities, etc.  Every year, thousands of medical students preparing for graduation fail to secure a residency on Match Day, and as a result never get to begin their careers.  In most states, the requisite qualifications to teach at a nursing school are such that few people are willing to pursue such positions, because teaching is not sufficiently lucrative by comparison to working in the field.  Most quality nursing schools are forced to limit admissions every year to a fraction of qualified applicants for no other reason than staffing limitations that prevent them from expanding the size of their programs.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > PixieStix said:
> ...




Actually no. Not disingenuous because I see the mandate as the biggest obstacle between us and a single payer system. Thats why I opposed and still do oppose the mandate.

As far as affording to cover everyone...youre absolutely right, no they cant. The health insurance system is a scam. Always has been. It relies on people being denied coverage theyve paid for in order to turn a profit. Theres simply no way someone paying a couple hundred dollars a month for three or four years then getting into a car accident and requiring tens of thousands of dollars of care is ever going to be profitable. So it relies on people being denied the services they purchasesd and/or dying beofre they can fight it.


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## JagOnDaRoad (Jul 9, 2012)

Harry Dresden said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > What do all those disgruntled doctors plan on doing for a living after they leave medicine?
> ...



They will become lawyers, then politicians. Most doctors are pretty smart....that's how they became doctors. There will be an underground medical system for the well-to-do, and they will run either a practice for cash, big time cash, or they will run it small time while they litigate during the day. Oh, and it takes a little something more than being smart to be a doctor.....a pretty hefty work ethic, and lots of energy....something lazy people can't really comprehend.


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## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > g5000 said:
> ...



Because it's not the Liberal-Leaning AMA, it doesn't count, hunh?


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



I was not arguing that, and don't have the energy to get into that Debate at this time, Suffice to say many Conservatives like myself have offered many suggestions as alternative and we are dismissed our right.

I was only here, because I kept seeing you guys claim the Government wont be paying more under the ACA and that is patently false.


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## Pho_King (Jul 9, 2012)

NYcarbineer said:


> We can import a few more thousands of doctors from places like India and Pakistan.  I'm sure there are plenty more there who wouldn't mind working in America.



That should greatly imprOve doctor/patient relationships.   Visiting your doctor will be reminiscent of calling customer service hotlines.


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## Political Junky (Jul 9, 2012)

Poor Tucker is having a tantrum, again.


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## Pho_King (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



Lower reimbursements, patient overLoads, and massive liability are a few minor Reasons....


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > Charles_Main said:
> ...




No Im not saying that at all. Im saying that the MANDATE was their brainchild originally. Pretty sure theyd be against the MC expansion, but I havent seen a specific opinion piece from them on it, so I cant say thats a certainty.

Ive been arguing about the Health Insurance companies themselves and the mechanisms put in place to deal with them within the system.

In other words, neither of us are liars, we are arguing two completely different points.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

I have said it time and time again, and I will again now. I am no supporter of Single Payer, but God Damn it that would be an Improvement on this Nonsensical Patch Work bill that will fail to cover everyone, Fail to lower costs, and NOT FAIL to massive increase Federal and State Spending.


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## Pho_King (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Zxereus said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...



Wow.  The ACA is going to lead to decreased bureaucracy.   Uuuuuuuuuunicorns.......


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## LoneLaugher (Jul 9, 2012)

Lovebears65 said:


> I was just about to post this. Crazy..



Crazy? No. 

Predictable? Yep.


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## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...




Well, as to you point on the Companies, Like I said I think it is very Naive to believe you can simply Mandate they spend X % on Patient Care, and the Rest on Running their Companies. Insurance Companies are not like the Government, They can't operate at a loss to keep costs down for their Customers. You can't Force an Industry by law to Do more for less, and simply expect it everything will be ok. Something will give.


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## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> I have said it time and time again, and I will again now. I am no supporter of Single Payer, but God Damn it that would be an Improvement on this Nonsensical Patch Work bill that will fail to cover everyone, Fail to lower costs, and NOT FAIL to massive increase Federal and State Spending.



And I see single payer as the only way to truly protect the rights of every America citizen. So I am against the ACA as it is currently.

The problem is, I see all these people posting things that are absolutely untrue and am forced to defend the facts when I dont want to defend the law itself.


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## Pho_King (Jul 9, 2012)

JosefK said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



Insure they will appreciate the opportunity to do more for less, with a corresponding increase in liability.   Makes perfect sense.   Has vidi invited you to take a ride on his uuuuuuuuuuunicorn?


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## Pho_King (Jul 9, 2012)

JosefK said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > syrenn said:
> ...



Im sure they will appreciate the opportunity to do more for less, with a corresponding increase in liability.   Makes perfect sense.   Has vidi invited you to take a ride on his uuuuuuuuuuunicorn?


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## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > PixieStix said:
> ...


Well , I asked a fucking question. Secondly shit for brains not everyone who is uninsured will qualify for MC, and yeah the states will pay for MC. That certainly IS NOT "the government" paying for everyone's health care, now is it?


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## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> > I have said it time and time again, and I will again now. I am no supporter of Single Payer, but God Damn it that would be an Improvement on this Nonsensical Patch Work bill that will fail to cover everyone, Fail to lower costs, and NOT FAIL to massive increase Federal and State Spending.
> ...



Which rights are those??


----------



## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Pho_King said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > Zxereus said:
> ...



Within the Health Insurance companies themselves its already begun. Like Ive said,my wife works for a major health insurer here in MN and her company is working furiously to decrease its own bureacracy in order to decrease costs so they can remain profitable within their accepted margins.

Now, it will NOT decrease government bureacracy. But government bureacracy will not effect health care costs themselves.


----------



## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > Charles_Main said:
> ...



The inalienable ones. like Life


----------



## Lakhota (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> > I have said it time and time again, and I will again now. I am no supporter of Single Payer, but God Damn it that would be an Improvement on this Nonsensical Patch Work bill that will fail to cover everyone, Fail to lower costs, and NOT FAIL to massive increase Federal and State Spending.
> ...



I agree!  ACA is better than nothing, but it really got watered down prior to passage.

SINGLE-PAYER is the only logical way to go!  However, I doubt special interests will allow that to happen in my lifetime.


----------



## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > hortysir said:
> ...



So anything with the word "fact" in it is invalid? Factcheck is "bad" and now Politifact is "bad"?
Is the IRS going to dictate what kind of care you get from your doctor? Come on! 
I'm not in favor of the mandate, but at least lets discuss it in a rational and honest manner.


----------



## Inthemiddle (Jul 9, 2012)

healthmyths said:


> doesn't make a difference... Here are studies and please find fault with it being right winged!!
> 
> The experts, 'physicians" in a study said:
> (90%) Ninety percent of 1,231 physicians.. surveyed said
> ...



We've already been over this.  Doctors "over test" and "over treat" to as nothing more than a means of upselling their customers and maximize their revenues.  It's no different than the eye doctor's office trying to sell you more expensive lens options.

Tech:  Would you like to add UV protection?
You:  No thanks.
Tech:  But UV is bad for your eyes.
You:  They're just reading glasses.
Tech:  But don't you drive?
You:  I don't need them for driving, and can wear sunglasses if I want.
Tech:  Do you use a computer?
You:  Sure, at work.
Tech:  Computer screens give off UV light.
You:  I don't actually read anything on the computer, I just play minesweeper.  And I wear sunglasses for that too.
Tech:  You know, studies have shown that light bulbs give off UV light, books are bad for your eyes.
You:  WOULD YOU JUST MAKE MY LENSES AND STOP TRYING TO GOUGE ME FOR MONEY YOU DUMB BITCH!?!
Tech:  So no to the UV protection.
You:  Thank you.


----------



## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

One last point to those who keep saying the ACA wont cause the Government to spend more on peoples Health Care.

Not only does it expand MC,

But what about those 4000 Dollar Tax Credits to people and all the Tax Credits to Businesses to Buy or offer insurance.

You do know a Tax Credit is not just a Deductions from Taxable income, It's a CREDIT, they give you money. 

How much is that going to cost the Tax Payer?


----------



## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > PixieStix said:
> ...



LOL, nice dance around the issue.


----------



## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...



Citing that as a source, wouldn't that give the Fed the capability of "taxing" me if I don't buy broccoli?

Our government's job is to protect my inalienable rights. On that we agree.

The way they should protect them is the difference.
They should protect my right to life by prosecuting those that would try to take it.
Not by funding an effort to extend it, according to their standards.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Jul 9, 2012)

Some doctors will quit and some doctors will quit taking insurance thus only cater to the rich like the lawmakers that passed Obamacare....kinda like the USSR where the best doctors saw the scum like Stalin while the average person on the street stood in line for toilet paper.


----------



## MarcATL (Jul 9, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



Shockingly, the "non-partisan" group behind the "83% of doctors will quit" study is really a Tea Party group...

About That "83 Percent of Doctors Hate Obamacare So Much, They Might Quit" Poll


----------



## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



Actually, I like FactCheck.


the IRS is going to dictate what level of coverage I can afford, thereby determining the quality of care I receive.


----------



## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

Pho_King said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > AquaAthena said:
> ...



Thanks for one of the few sane answers and reasons! In my opinion the above reason are projections that may or may not be realized.


----------



## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



SLATE's not slanted, either?!



C'mon.....


----------



## The Infidel (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > hortysir said:
> ...



Hence the need for so many new agents.


----------



## Greenbeard (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


> the IRS is going to dictate what level of coverage I can afford, thereby determining the quality of care I receive.



Your income will dictate that for you.


----------



## Lakhota (Jul 9, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



Thanks, now it makes sense.  The Daily Caller OP was sort of a giveaway...


----------



## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

Greenbeard said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > the IRS is going to dictate what level of coverage I can afford, thereby determining the quality of care I receive.
> ...



That's not "rationing"?


----------



## MarcATL (Jul 9, 2012)

Greenbeard said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > second, why would they quit? The Affordable Care Act changes nothing for DOCTORS. It changes INSURANCE. not CARE. so its bullshit again
> ...


----------



## Greenbeard (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


> Greenbeard said:
> 
> 
> > hortysir said:
> ...



Of course. A price tag is a rationing mechanism. You think the IRS invented prices?


----------



## MarcATL (Jul 9, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> Can't argue statistics here folks.
> 
> Just reporting the facts.
> 
> ...


This rant is nothing but an absurd and bogus talking point.


----------



## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > hortysir said:
> ...



LOL, that's good to know. Here:
"Massive government takeover of health care. Actually, the law expands business for private insurance companies by requiring nearly everyone to have health insurance. Medicaid eligibility is also increased, but this is no government-run system, as single-payer advocates wanted. And as weve noted again and again, government already accounted for 43.6 percent of all health care spending before the new law was enacted, and that share is projected to rise by 3.8 percentage points by 2015, a year after the law takes full effect. Plus, much of that increase would happen anyway as more and more seniors reach Medicare age."

How is the IRS allegedly going to 'dictate what level of coverage you can afford'?


----------



## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

Greenbeard said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > Greenbeard said:
> ...



I was just being a smartass, GB.

I'm hoping the whole ball of wax gets repealed, actually, then none of this matters.



In other words, I don't feel like bitching about it tonight.


----------



## Lakhota (Jul 9, 2012)

I love this board.  It's the greatest source of misinformation I've ever seen.  Along with the totally made-up shit, it draws from all the lunatic right-wing sources.


----------



## MarcATL (Jul 9, 2012)

Jackson said:


> I asked one of my doctors aboout this and he says he now intends to retire within two years.  This is not bullshit.  They work too hard and have paid their dues to not to have the rewards they have expected.  He's a very skilled doctor and will be missed.


Another doctor will take his place in the market and thus the cycle continues.


----------



## Pheonixops (Jul 9, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



FactCheck.org : IRS and the Health Care Law, Part II


----------



## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > hortysir said:
> ...



No. Your "life" is not dependant on your purchasing and eating broccoli. But thats thinking backwards about this whole issue anyway.

You refusing to purchase health insurance isnt really the issue. The issue is the health insurance companies denying coverage or refusing to pay for legitimate claims made by paying customers.


now if you needed broccoli to stay alive and the broccoli growers refused to sell it to you or sold you cabbage when you asked for broccoli, then that would be a better anology.

So they changed the law to protect your rights, rather than prosecute and deal with years of courtroom battles and high priced lawyers finding every loophole in the book to protect your rights.

personally I do not believe that the ACA will actually protect those rights. I think only a single payer system will do that effectively.


----------



## hjmick (Jul 9, 2012)

No, doctors *consider* quitting...


----------



## MarcATL (Jul 9, 2012)

JakeStarkey said:


> The Daily Caller is a far right extremist non-mainstream rag.


 Precisely!

And look how all these rabid extremist RWers on this board are bitterly clinging to that story for dear life.

It's sad really.

*SMH*


----------



## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...




Okay, Pheonix, you've convinced me.

The reason I just told Greenbeard that I didn't feel like bitching about it tonight is because I just lost my job.

So, rather than trying to work and keep up with any COBRA payments I'm going to have to worry about, I'm just going to let your tax dollars take care of me.



I feel MMMUUUUUCH better now. Thanks.


----------



## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> > I asked one of my doctors aboout this and he says he now intends to retire within two years.  This is not bullshit.  They work too hard and have paid their dues to not to have the rewards they have expected.  He's a very skilled doctor and will be missed.
> ...



Indeed. Demand will cause an increase in supply.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jul 9, 2012)

Douger said:


> SHIT ! Gotta call my doc. This thread makes my ass hurt.
> Cost ? ZERO.



tell your boyfriend to ease up a bit.....


----------



## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



In so far as the states will have to pay for the MC expansion, and they are part of our government, Yes it is. And don't be Naive, the states will have to come Begging for Bail outs again, and then we will be back passing another bill to Bail them out. 

You can claim what ever you want. Facts are Facts.

2 well 3 Things in the ACA will increase federal and State liabilities massively.

First the MC expansion,

Second and Third the Tax Credits to help people buy Insurance, and Tax Credits to Encourage Business to Offer Insurance. Those are Direct Pay outs of Government Money, to Business and People to encourage people to get Insurance.

How you guys can ignore that, and pretend the ACA is not going to massively Increase the Amount State and Fed government spends on peoples health Care is simply Funny, and frankly Very dishonest.


----------



## PixieStix (Jul 9, 2012)

Why Physicians Oppose The Health Care Reform Bill - Forbes.com



> What physicians knew then and certainly know now is that instead of fixing these issues, the government will be forced to take the path of least resistance to save money (that is to say the path with the least special interest resistance). That means reducing physician reimbursement, just as the country is counting on even more physicians to be available.
> 
> Physicians knew the health care bill had a "gotcha" buried deep inside. The only way it could be called "budget-neutral" was to implement significant reductions in physician payments. So just as we are hoping more physicians become available to treat the influx of 31 million more patients, the government is implementing a massive reduction in physician reimbursement (a 21% reduction in physician reimbursement went into effect April 1 after several years of no adjustments for inflation, meaning physician reimbursement has been declining for several years already).
> 
> In a moment of complete legislative hypocrisy, the proponents were touting one health care bill that included cost estimates that assumed a massive reduction in payments while another bill moved its way through Congress that would reverse those cuts (the bill reversing the cuts was ultimately defeated, meaning the cuts did go into effect). At some point, basic supply and demand will kick in, and there will be insufficient physician resources for treating patients.


----------



## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > Charles_Main said:
> ...





> The tax credit offsets a portion of the employers federal income tax liability for the year. Tax-exempt employers receive the credit as a refund, with the provision that the refund cannot exceed the amount of federal income tax and Medicare payroll tax that the employer withholds from the employees wages, plus the Medicare tax paid by the employer
> 
> Here's the specifics:
> 
> ...



Additionally, States can choose to NOT expand MC and therefore NOT take the Federal money provided for that purpose.

Although participating states will distribute the funds, the funds themselves come from the Federal revenue. At least thats my understanding. If you can provide a link disputing that, I am open to new information.


----------



## Greenbeard (Jul 9, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> Why Physicians Oppose The Health Care Reform Bill - Forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Meanwhile, back on planet Earth: Medical News: CMS Proposes Primary Care Pay Raise for 2013 - MedPage Today



> Published: July 06, 2012
> 
> WASHINGTON -- The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) has issued a proposed rule that would give family physicians a 7% pay boost in 2013.
> 
> The proposal released Friday also would increase Medicare payments to other primary care practitioners by between 3% and 5%.



Physician payments aren't governed or affected by the ACA. Arguably they should be, since the law that governs them (the Balanced Budget Act of 1997) sucks.


----------



## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Greenbeard said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> > Why Physicians Oppose The Health Care Reform Bill - Forbes.com
> ...



Agreed. The ACA does precious little to effect Health Care costs. It tries to address health Insurance costs, but without dealing with CARE costs, the price of insurance MUST rise.

However, one must consider the fact that Medicaid itself DOES restrict costs through the amount they will payout. And THAT is most likely what the detractors are failing to express when they speak of lower reembusments.

And damn them for not articulating that point so I didnt have to


----------



## Desperado (Jul 9, 2012)

Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare 
A Perfect Example of the "Law of Unintended Consequences"


----------



## Political Junky (Jul 9, 2012)

What are all those 83% of doctors going to do for a living after they quit? Work at McDonald's?


----------



## g5000 (Jul 9, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Tea Party is actually non-partisan.







SniperFire said:


> But you were obviously wrong about them surveying 'just tea partiers. '



With the vast resources of ALEC behind them, how hard do you think it would be to find just the right kind of doctors for this bogus "non-partisan" survey?  Do you know how easily someone with an agenda can rig a survey to get the participants they want to answer the way they want?

"I need a list of all doctors who subscribe to Guns and Ammo magazine, or Soldier of Fortune magazine, or who drive large SUVs, or who bought yellow ribbon magnetic stickers from Amazon."

There are 691,000 physicians and surgeons in the US.



> Employment of physicians and surgeons is expected to grow by 24 percent from 2010 to 2020, faster than the average for all occupations. Job prospects should be good for physicians willing to practice in rural and low-income areas, because these areas typically have difficulty attracting doctors.



Physicians and Surgeons : Occupational Outlook Handbook : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics


----------



## francoHFW (Jul 9, 2012)

Whatta joke, Pure Pubcrappe for the dupes. No doctors are quitting. They're just worried someone might derail the gravy train. Just more Pub dupes.


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 9, 2012)

And that's just the beginning. This Obama care is going to wreck this country good before anyone wises up and by that time the damage will be done. We'll be decades untangling this mess if it ever takes hold.
People can be so stupid. They will evidently support the downfall of an entire country rather than even consider maybe they're wrong.

This will be one bell that's going to be VERY hard to unring.


----------



## g5000 (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...



My anti-Obamacare credentials are well-established, fool.  I just don't drink every glass of bongwater put in front of me, and I'd like to see a lot more critical thinking from the right.


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > g5000 said:
> ...



G5 I work with Doctors. I know what I've heard. It ain't good,


----------



## daveman (Jul 9, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > We can import a few more thousands of doctors from places like India and Pakistan.  I'm sure there are plenty more there who wouldn't mind working in America.
> ...


Obama just has to decree that doctors may not quit practicing medicine.  

Right, Carby?


----------



## francoHFW (Jul 9, 2012)

Doctors don't know shytte about politics, and neither do you dupes LOL. Liberal AMA? Absolute idiocy.

Romneycare a great success, none of the PUB doom and gloom.  

Frontline said cost rises are now 2%, easily the lowest in the USA. So change the channel...

"For this reason he also provided for subsidies for individuals living below three times the federal poverty line to make insurance affordable. 

This &#8220;three-legged stool&#8221;&#8212;banning discrimination in insurance markets, mandating that individuals purchase insurance, and providing low-income subsidies for insurance purchase&#8212;became the basis for both our reform in Massachusetts and for the Affordable Care Act (ACA).

*The enormous success of health-care reform in the almost six years since its passage in Massachusetts can make us more confident that this three-legged stool will work for the nation as a whole.* We have covered about two-thirds of uninsured Massachusetts residents, and have lowered the premiums in the non-group market by half relative to national premium trends. And we have done so with broad public support. Moreover, this reform succeeded without interfering with the employer-sponsored insurance market that works for most of our residents: employer-sponsored insurance coverage has actually risen in Massachusetts, while falling sharply nationally, and the premiums for employer-sponsored insurance rose no faster in Massachusetts than they did nationally.

This was all possible because the individual mandate ended the &#8220;death spiral&#8221; of trying to obtain fairly priced insurance by just forcing insurers to charge everyone the same price. The bottom line is that we can&#8217;t have fairly priced insurance for the healthy and sick alike without the broad participation that is guaranteed by the mandate. 

*The mandate is the spinach we have to eat to get the dessert that is fairly priced insurance coverage.*

Actually, RomneyCare is an enormous success « Hot Air HeadlinesMar 27, 2012 ... Actually, RomneyCare is an enormous success. Into this chasm stepped the hero of our story, Governor Mitt Romney, and his plan for ...http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/rom...nd-falsehoods/ - 

Cachedromneycare success - Google Search


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 9, 2012)

daveman said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



 Yeah, Dave, yeah. That's the ticket


----------



## daveman (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...


The survey was conducted by fax and online from April 18 to May 22, 2012. DPMAF obtained the office fax numbers of 36,000 doctors in active clinical practice, and 16, 227 faxes were successfully delivered. Doctors were asked to return their completed surveys by fax, or online at a web address included in the faxed copy. Browser rules prevented doctors from filing duplicate surveys, and respondents were asked to provide personal identification for verification. The response rate was 4.3% for a total of 699 completed surveys.​Physician Attitudes Survey - June 2012 | Doctor Patient Medical Association

It doesn't say they only surveyed members.

You just make sure you don't believe anything that isn't properly worshipful of The One.  You could get audited for apostasy.


----------



## daveman (Jul 9, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > What do all those disgruntled doctors plan on doing for a living after they leave medicine?
> ...


Not all doctors; just the ones who won't join the Faithful in worshiping The One.


----------



## daveman (Jul 9, 2012)

CandySlice said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...


Thus speaketh The One:  "So mote it be."


----------



## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Political Junky said:


> What are all those 83% of doctors going to do for a living after they quit? Work at McDonald's?



That may actually be good for me. I think my local McDonalds is "rationing" the fries. Every third order is a half box of fries instead of a full one.They always fuck you in the drive thru.


----------



## francoHFW (Jul 9, 2012)

OP is Pubcrappe. NO DOCTORS ARE QUITTING.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 9, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



Nothing at that PolitiFart page about doctors quitting.. Not that I'd take their analysis without extreme skepticism anyway.. 

((ObamaCare doesn't CUT Medicare by $500B -- it just reduces the growth)) LOL


----------



## Soggy in NOLA (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> I question the validity of an article that posts:
> 
> (SEE ALSO: Jeremiah Wright: &#8216;White racist alien DNA&#8217; running through synapses of Obama&#8217;s brain )
> 
> ...



Uhm, that little gem was from the nutter known as Jeremiah Wright:



> Wright later went on to suggest that America&#8217;s elite universities infect African Americans with &#8220;white racist DNA.&#8221;


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 9, 2012)

When you trace back the methodology for this survey you find.. 

KEY FINDINGS

&#8226;90% say the medical system is on the WRONG TRACK
&#8226;83% say they are thinking about QUITTING
*&#8226;61% say the system challenges their ETHICS*&#8226;85% say the patient-physician relationship is in a TAILSPIN
*&#8226;65% say GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT is most to blame for current problems
&#8226;72% say individual insurance mandate will NOT result in improved access care*
*&#8226;49% say they will STOP accepting Medicaid patients
&#8226;74% say they will STOP ACCEPTING Medicare patients, or leave Medicare completely
&#8226;52% say they would rather treat some Medicaid/Medicare patient for FREE*
&#8226;57% give the AMA a FAILING GRADE representing them
&#8226;1 out of 3 doctors is HESITANT to voice their opinion
&#8226;2 out of 3 say they are JUST SQUEAKING BY OR IN THE RED financially
&#8226;95% say private practice is losing out to CORPORATE MEDICINE
&#8226;80% say DOCTORS/MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS are most likely to help solve things
*&#8226;70% say REDUCING GOVERNMENT would be single best fix.*

NOW THOSE i bolded are the IMPORTANT findings if the sample is representative..


----------



## JagOnDaRoad (Jul 9, 2012)

Pho_King said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > AquaAthena said:
> ...


Waiting 9 months for reimbursement after the procedure/test/exam/office visit is scrutinized by some some bureaucrat( an official who works by fixed routine without exercising intelligent judgment), then receiving 35% because only "X" was warranted, in his professional judgement.


----------



## daveman (Jul 9, 2012)

Desperado said:


> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare
> A Perfect Example of the "Law of Unintended Consequences"



But the left meant well -- and that's all that matters.  

Right, USMB lefties?


----------



## daveman (Jul 9, 2012)

francoHFW said:


> OP is Pubcrappe. NO DOCTORS ARE QUITTING.


Your view is limited by Obama's transverse colon.


----------



## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



The Funds will initially come from the Fed, But this is the Catch, the thing Obama does not want to talk about. The ACA only helps the States fund this Expansion for the First few years, giving them less and less each year. Eventually the States will have to come up with ways to fund it on their own, and you know what that means, The States will have to Increase taxes. But don't worry Obama and the Dems wont be blamed for those Tax Increases either.

Because apparently Americans are Fucking Ignorant.


----------



## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > Charles_Main said:
> ...




I havent seen that aspect. Got a link so I can see for myself?


----------



## uscitizen (Jul 9, 2012)

We can import plenty more from India, Pakistan, etc.

They are just a commodity.


----------



## MarcATL (Jul 9, 2012)

CandySlice said:


> And that's just the beginning. This Obama care is going to wreck this country good before anyone wises up and by that time the damage will be done. We'll be decades untangling this mess if it ever takes hold.
> People can be so stupid. They will evidently support the downfall of an entire country rather than even consider maybe they're wrong.
> 
> This will be one bell that's going to be VERY hard to unring.


This one is doubling down on stupid...



flacaltenn said:


> When you trace back the methodology for this survey you find..
> 
> KEY FINDINGS
> 
> ...


Gotta link to this tripe Spruce?


----------



## Richard-H (Jul 9, 2012)

The doctors are quitting? What a laugh!

Whadda they gonna do? Get a job at McDonalds???


----------



## francoHFW (Jul 9, 2012)

None of these imaginary horrors ever happen. Change the channel.

Doctors are mainly Pub dupes like you fools.

My father was for socialized medicine since 1940. Unique in the area...


----------



## ladyliberal (Jul 9, 2012)

I haven't read through the thread, so I apologize if someone has already made these points, but...

- This was not a scientifically conducted survey. Respondents were self-selected, and no attempt was made to demographically balance the sample. As such, it cannot be taken to represent the view of doctors as a whole.

- Fewer than 5% of doctors surveyed actually reported that they considered quitting. Most doctors didn't return the survey at all.

- The survey doesn't even ask doctors whether Obamacare is making them consider quitting. It asks them "How do current changes in the medical system affect your desire to practice medicine?" Much fewer than 83% of doctors surveyed viewed government regulation, much less the ACA specifically, as the primary problem.


----------



## MarcATL (Jul 9, 2012)

ladyliberal said:


> I haven't read through the thread, so I apologize if someone has already made these points, but...
> 
> - This was not a scientifically conducted survey. Respondents were self-selected, and no attempt was made to demographically balance the sample. As such, it cannot be taken to represent the view of doctors as a whole.
> 
> ...


CON$ and their junk science.


----------



## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> ladyliberal said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't read through the thread, so I apologize if someone has already made these points, but...
> ...



Libs, and their Ideological Partisan Blinders.


----------



## Charles_Main (Jul 9, 2012)

Even if no doctors Quit. Less and less are going to School to be Doctors, and the Current Supply is growing older and closer to Retirement. Now is not the time to be doing things that make the Profession less desirable, and less lucrative to be in. 

Which is exactly what we have been doing for many Years.


----------



## ladyliberal (Jul 9, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > ladyliberal said:
> ...



Am I to understand that you feel that I have mischaracterized the interpretations of the survey? If so, could you explain?


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...



The States are also expected to absorb many more MediCaid patients from that fictitious 40 Mill uninsured.. So when you discuss COSTS --- we haven't even scratched the surface in terms of STATE TAX impacts...


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 9, 2012)

ladyliberal said:


> Charles_Main said:
> 
> 
> > MarcATL said:
> ...



Yeah you have... Respondents can't be bound and shackled to respond. The percent response was actually not unexpectedly low for a fax survey. A phone survey would be even markedly lower. (Here nurse, hold her colon for 20 minutes -- I've got an important  phone survey to respond to)

 The last thing you want is a belligerent poll respondent. Also, the demographics need not be finely balanced if you don't expect a major change in the response.. 

They disclosed that the majority was from small practice. This is probably because in a LARGE practice -- the doctors would never see the fax.. I think it's JUST AS important a finding if it is restricted to the small practices that we all know and love...


----------



## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> CandySlice said:
> 
> 
> > And that's just the beginning. This Obama care is going to wreck this country good before anyone wises up and by that time the damage will be done. We'll be decades untangling this mess if it ever takes hold.
> ...



Physician Attitudes Survey - June 2012 | Doctor Patient Medical Association


----------



## ladyliberal (Jul 9, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> ladyliberal said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah you have... Respondents can't be bound and shackled to respond. The percent response was actually not unexpectedly low for a fax survey. A phone survey would be even markedly lower. (Here nurse, hold her colon for 20 minutes -- I've got an important  phone survey to respond to)
> ...


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 9, 2012)

hortysir said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > CandySlice said:
> ...



Good save HortySir.. Another troller who didn't care to track back the link to the ACTUAL SURVEY to see how it was done....


----------



## g5000 (Jul 9, 2012)

"Doctor, this survey just came in from the DPMA."

"Those whackos?  Throw it out."


----------



## hortysir (Jul 9, 2012)

g5000 said:


> "Doctor, this survey just came in from the DPMA."
> 
> "Those whackos?  Throw it out."



True enough, probably.
I was always throwing away 'junk faxes'


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 9, 2012)

ladyliberal said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > ladyliberal said:
> ...


----------



## uscitizen (Jul 9, 2012)

Who has not considered quitting?


----------



## Vidi (Jul 9, 2012)

```

```



Charles_Main said:


> Even if no doctors Quit. Less and less are going to School to be Doctors, and the Current Supply is growing older and closer to Retirement. Now is not the time to be doing things that make the Profession less desirable, and less lucrative to be in.
> 
> Which is exactly what we have been doing for many Years.



And after the Baby Boomers die off, if we had produced the same number of doctors as in the past, wouldnt we then have a surplus of doctors?


----------



## uscitizen (Jul 9, 2012)

Vidi said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> ...



They will all just specialize in tatoo removal.


----------



## francoHFW (Jul 9, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > Charles_Main said:
> ...



Except the Feds will pay 100% of added costs for four years, and then 90%. But thanks for the Pubcrappe...


----------



## ladyliberal (Jul 9, 2012)

> But c'mon, have you seen a news outlet do methodology and literal interpretation of surveys?



I'm not sure I understand the question. I've seen many news outlets properly conduct and report scientific surveys.



> So I find the results extremely believable.



I don't have any reason to believe that results were falsified. I don't see any evidence to support the claim that they are representative of American doctors, though.




> But it is a little dishonest to throw a hissy fit and multiply the poll result by the % of respondents. NO one scientific does that. It is what it is.. A factoid with probable worth to consider..



I'm sorry you feel I've thrown a "hissy fit". What precisely do you find dishonest about my statements? Given that I said "Most doctors didn't return the survey at all" I don't see how one could have been mislead by my statement that "Fewer than 5% of doctors surveyed actually reported that they considered quitting".

In a scientific survey, many people _contacted _are never surveyed because they decline. In this survey, many people are asked questions and therefore surveyed, and then decide whether to respond. People who declined to respond to particular questions simply are not statistically equivalent to people who won't participate in any questions.

I can hardly claim that the survey is unworthy of consideration, since I have demonstrably considered it. Upon consideration I have found it misleading propaganda with little reliable information content.


----------



## francoHFW (Jul 9, 2012)

90% is as low as it goes.


----------



## francoHFW (Jul 9, 2012)

NONE of the Pub horrors actually happen. Romneycare is a huge success. And ACA is better.


----------



## uscitizen (Jul 9, 2012)

Some people are just driven by fear.


----------



## Vidi (Jul 10, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > ```
> ...





LOL fair enough


----------



## MarcATL (Jul 10, 2012)

ladyliberal said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > ladyliberal said:
> ...


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jul 10, 2012)

francoHFW said:


> Whatta joke, Pure Pubcrappe for the dupes. No doctors are quitting. They're just worried someone might derail the gravy train. Just more Pub dupes.



what gravy train Frankie?.....professional sports is a gravy train.....not the Doctors world.....when you are around many people with serious problems and watching people being eaten up with the Cancer......i dont see where that gravy train is.....


----------



## Desperado (Jul 10, 2012)

I believe that the high percentage is with doctors in private practice.
The older ones will retire, while the doctors that are not close to retirement will go to work for hospitals and clinics.  Basically, Obamacare will make private practice doctors extinct.


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jul 10, 2012)

francoHFW said:


> Doctors don't know shytte about politics, and neither do you dupes LOL. Liberal AMA? Absolute idiocy.



no one knows shit about anything....except you Frankie.....how many times have you said this.....geezus you must think you are one intelligent motherfucker......


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jul 10, 2012)

francoHFW said:


> OP is Pubcrappe. NO DOCTORS ARE QUITTING.



well i have seen links saying they might......so lets see your link Frankie....


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jul 10, 2012)

francoHFW said:


> None of these imaginary horrors ever happen. Change the channel.
> 
> *Doctors are mainly Pub dupes like you fools.
> *
> My father was for socialized medicine since 1940. Unique in the area...



you better go talk to your buddy Dean.....he claims that very few "Pubs" are into higher education....im sure this includes Doctors.....


----------



## High_Gravity (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



What in the fuck?


----------



## Harry Dresden (Jul 10, 2012)

Harry Dresden said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > What do all those disgruntled doctors plan on doing for a living after they leave medicine?
> ...



how come Marc did not thank me for this?..........


----------



## Inthemiddle (Jul 10, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Even if no doctors Quit. Less and less are going to School to be Doctors



Even if that were true it will have no impact on the availability of doctors entering the work force.  Every year, thousands of students fail to "match" and as a result never are given the chance to start a career in medicine.


----------



## Katzndogz (Jul 10, 2012)

No doctors will quit medicine like no rich people will dump their citizenship to get out of the US.

Liberals need their dreams.  They rely on them.

The government knows that doctors are going to leave medicine.  That's why they have already made provisions to advance physician assistants and nurse practioners to have more responsibility.  The same ability to practice medicine, without the same education.

Many doctors will just not accept insurance.  They will go to direct pay or concierge services.  Who ever can afford it will get medical care, those who can't will be getting care from a nurse practitioner staffed clinic.


----------



## High_Gravity (Jul 10, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> No doctors will quit medicine like no rich people will dump their citizenship to get out of the US.
> 
> Liberals need their dreams.  They rely on them.
> 
> ...



That sounds fucked up.


----------



## AquaAthena (Jul 10, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> No doctors will quit medicine like no rich people will dump their citizenship to get out of the US.
> 
> Liberals need their dreams.  They rely on them.
> 
> ...



That is the plan. 

"Even if doctors do not quit their jobs over the ruling, America will  face a shortage of at least 90,000 doctors by 2020. The new health care  law increases demand for physicians by expanding insurance coverage.  This change will exacerbate the current shortage as more Americans live  past 65.


"By 2025 the shortage will balloon to over 130,000, Len Marquez, the  director of government relations at the American Association of Medical  Colleges, told The Daily Caller.


One of our primary concerns is that youve got an aging physician  workforce and you have these new beneficiaries  these newly insured  people  coming through the system, he said. There will be strains and  there will be physician shortages.

Read more:  Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller
​


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > No doctors will quit medicine like no rich people will dump their citizenship to get out of the US.
> ...



 My point exactly. It would have been much better had cooler heads thought this through rather than having this crucial decision made in the heat of Obama Worship Fever


----------



## asaratis (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller




...and we haven't even finished reading the bill yet!

What this country is bound to become if left to the present administration is a totalitarian Marxist state...RULED by the likes of Valerie Jarrett, Michelle Obama and the Boy King himself, Barack Hussein Obama.

As soon as he gets the IRS (the new Gestapo) enlarged and armed, he will have the beginnings of the personal police force he spoke of years ago.


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

asaratis said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



What frightens me is years down the road when these Obama worshippers have to turn to their grandkids and say something on the order of: 
'Well the Beatles said it was okay to take acid in huge quantities and that's why your silly straw DNA has you looking like a tadpole, Little Mugwump.'


----------



## Katzndogz (Jul 10, 2012)

Do you honestly believe that the 2,500 pages of the obamatax is all there is?    Doctors are looking at thousands and thousands of regulations that they are expected to comply with.  There are 13,000 pages of regulations so far, the regulations are still being written.  

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...00-pages-of-regulations-for-new-obamatax-law/

Most of them won't put up with it.  They'll find something else to do or someplace else to do it.


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Do you honestly believe that the 2,500 pages of the obamatax is all there is?    Doctors are looking at thousands and thousands of regulations that they are expected to comply with.  There are 13,000 pages of regulations so far, the regulations are still being written.
> 
> http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...00-pages-of-regulations-for-new-obamatax-law/
> 
> Most of them won't put up with it.  They'll find something else to do or someplace else to do it.



 Have you ever seen a Government program with all the cards on the table? Of course not. This is the beginning of the end if we don't stop it.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



Check the date. 

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...f-doctors-will-leave-medicine-due-to-aca.html 

BTW, I contacted the Doctor Patient group and pointed out the obvious selection bias they implemented in their poll.

They responded with a lot of tap dancing, but never could quite justify their methodology.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Oh, and the fact that people bought into this poll demonstrates the degree of statistical illiteracy in this country.


----------



## Warrior102 (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



The report was just released. 
Check the dateline, moron.


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 10, 2012)

hey wahrrior102, you do know the org who *cough* "conducted" this poll was debunked @ 15 pages ago right?



Dot Com said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Zxereus said:
> ...


----------



## Warrior102 (Jul 10, 2012)

Dot Com said:


> hey wahrrior102, you do know the org who *cough* "conducted" this poll was debunked @ 15 pages ago right?



Someone needs to tell Drudge. His 15,000,000 daily viewers are still seeing it as the lead. Maybe you can call the White House and ask them to intervene to get it taken down.


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 10, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...





Warrior102 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > hey wahrrior102, you do know the org who *cough* "conducted" this poll was debunked @ 15 pages ago right?
> ...



why does it not surprise me that the type of people who traffic Drudge don't bother/aren't capable of investigating the source


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> Can't argue statistics here folks.
> 
> Just reporting the facts.
> 
> ...



You can when the statistical survey is irreparably screwed up.


----------



## Warrior102 (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > Can't argue statistics here folks.
> ...



If you're in favor of some government-issue Doc sticking his fingers in your ass during a routine physical - have at it. 

That's why I avoid the VA


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

PixieStix said:


> If I were a Dr. And I loved being a Dr. I would quit too, it is going to become nothing but a huge bureaucratic nightmare with no compassion for the patient and certainty not the Dr.
> 
> 
> Adam Sharp, MD said the following
> ...



?

As if the ACA has anything to do with EMRs being implemented in hospitals.  

My hospital switched to EMR five or six years ago (if not longer).


----------



## gallantwarrior (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



There's certainly no shortage of lawyers.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Even if no doctors Quit. Less and less are going to School to be Doctors.....



That is just factually dishonest.  

The acceptance rate to a U.S. allopathic medical school (a school that confers an MD degree) is at 50%, just the same as it has been.  There is absolutely no sign that people are not applying to medical school due to the current political climate, and due to demand, the number of seats is increasing with the opening of new schools.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> ladyliberal said:
> 
> 
> > Charles_Main said:
> ...



Why not direct mail?  It would have been the best way to get an accurate statistical sample.

I suspect I know the answer.  I suspect an honest person knows it too.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > Warrior102 said:
> ...



The results were released in mid June.

Once again, you are behind the power curve.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > Warrior102 said:
> ...



A rectal exam is part of an annual physical.  Especially for someone your age.  If your PCP isn't doing it, they are derelict.  Politics has nothing to do with it.  

Prostrate cancer doesn't really care how you vote.  

You sound like a smart and compliant patient.....


----------



## Warrior102 (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> A rectal exam is part of an annual physical.  Especially for someone your age.  If your PCP isn't doing it, they are derelict.  Politics has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Prostrate cancer doesn't really care how you vote.
> 
> You sound like a smart and compliant patient.....



Yes Grampa, I know it's part of an annual exam. Why not take a break from cheerleading Obama's failed health care plan (that President-Elect Romney will repeal) and put your mouth back on Obama's ass where it belongs.


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

Geaux, I've experienced something quite different down here in Houston. This bill and it's implications are being met with anything but apathy by the physicians at  M.D. Anderson, Ben Taub and St. Lukes hospitals. We are the med center to the world and the outlook here is anything but good. I work with these folks too and I keep my ears open.


----------



## Warrior102 (Jul 10, 2012)

CandySlice said:


> Geaux, I've experienced something quite different down here in Houston. This bill and it's implications are being met with anything but apathy by the physicians at  M.D. Anderson, Ben Taub and St. Lukes hospitals. We are the med center to the world and the outlook here is anything but good. I work with these folks too and I keep my ears open.



The Canadians must be shit-scared. They left Canada's "marvelous" health care plan and fled to the U.S. years ago. Where they off to next?


----------



## Warrior102 (Jul 10, 2012)

An oldie, but a goodie......  Frustrated foreign doctors leaving Canada for U.S.


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> CandySlice said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux, I've experienced something quite different down here in Houston. This bill and it's implications are being met with anything but apathy by the physicians at  M.D. Anderson, Ben Taub and St. Lukes hospitals. We are the med center to the world and the outlook here is anything but good. I work with these folks too and I keep my ears open.
> ...



We get more than our share of foreign patients here. Seems nobody wants to wait 50 days for a CAT scan. This is such a scandal I cannot believe the American people are even considering such lunacy. All this radical crap being passed in the midst of Obama fever is going to come back and bite all of us in the ass.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > A rectal exam is part of an annual physical.  Especially for someone your age.  If your PCP isn't doing it, they are derelict.  Politics has nothing to do with it.
> ...



So you know it's part of your physical, but you try and find a doctor that won't do it?  So you intentionally choose bad care?  Obamacare probably won't kill you.  Prostate cancer might.  Think about it.

Where have I cheerleaded the ACA?  I have only pointed out that this statistic is screwed up due to a selection bias.

You were very quick to tout the statistic in the OP, but now you won't defend it?


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

CandySlice said:


> Geaux, I've experienced something quite different down here in Houston. This bill and it's implications are being met with anything but apathy by the physicians at  M.D. Anderson, Ben Taub and St. Lukes hospitals. We are the med center to the world and the outlook here is anything but good. I work with these folks too and I keep my ears open.



I don't doubt that, but it's had to take anecdotes and convert them into any sort of meaningful statistic.

My only point is that this statistic is intellectually dishonest.


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

gallantwarrior said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



I love Robert Heinlein!!


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> CandySlice said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux, I've experienced something quite different down here in Houston. This bill and it's implications are being met with anything but apathy by the physicians at  M.D. Anderson, Ben Taub and St. Lukes hospitals. We are the med center to the world and the outlook here is anything but good. I work with these folks too and I keep my ears open.
> ...



Mark Twain said:
There are lies, there are DAMNED lies and then there are statistics.

Im hearing real people talking in real time about real concerns and it ain't good.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



"The Daily Caller is a news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C., United States, with a focus on politics, original reporting and breaking news, founded by journalist and political pundit Tucker Carlson and politician Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney. The Daily Caller launched on January 11, 2010."

Source:  Wikipedia, see:

The Daily Caller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

CandySlice said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > CandySlice said:
> ...



Anecdotally, I am not hearing much of anything about it (I made another thread about it).  

Maybe I am just in the wrong place/wrong time to get an earful (and I certainly don't ask about politics at work), but it's not a permanent "doom and gloom" environment.  

I wouldn't take that to mean doctors are ambivalent, which is equally anecdotal.  I think in general doctors are leery of any sort of government intrusion, though that hardly begins or ends with the ACA.  

I certainly don't know what to make of it.  It's not going to change a thing I do with regards to staying or leaving medicine (though I just started residency) so I have a "wait and see" mentality.

I respect that the system is a mess and something needed to happen.  I don't know if this was the right answer, but I don't think "repeal!" and return to the status quo is the right answer either.

Eventually, if we are going to balance the budget, we have to tackle our health care crisis.


----------



## Warrior102 (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> You were very quick to tout the statistic in the OP, but now you won't defend it?



I'm sticking to it. 

Just like Drudge is.


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> CandySlice said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



And that seems to be the general concensus down here. SOMETHING needed to be done but THIS?? If Obama was really serious he would have started with the fraud and over billing we see daily, the redundancies that make everybody's job harder, a thing that will NOT be made better by more Gov't intrusion.
I just see this as a power grab, pure and simple and I am not alone.

Did you know the Mafia is working Medicare now? And why not? There are more than enough dumb doctors that get themselves in deep with the bent nose crowd and there is no more penalty than a wrist slap and plenty of crooked accountants and Dr's waiting in the wings.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > You were very quick to tout the statistic in the OP, but now you won't defend it?
> ...



So you have nothing to say about their huge selection bias?  

What about the fact that almost 90% of respondents were in solo or small group practice (which has the latitude to no accept certain types of insurance or see patients with no insurance - in other words, those who have the most to lose under the ACA)?

What about the fact that only 4% of the respondents bothered to respond?

What about the fact that hospital based physicians are virtually unrepresented in the poll (11%)?

What about the fact the Emergency Medicine Physicians (who treat the bulk of the uninsured/noninsured thanks to Reagan passing EMTALA) are completely unrepresented in the poll?

Stick with it all you want.  It's not going to fool anyone with a minute degree of statistical literacy.  

Claiming that "83% of physicians" based on this poll is hysterical.  That would be like conducting a survey in my small town and claiming it was representative of the entire state.


----------



## Warrior102 (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> Claiming that "83% of physicians" based on this poll is hysterical.  That would be like conducting a survey in my small town and claiming it was representative of the entire state.



83% of the physicians who responded to the poll. 

Better now, numbnuts?


----------



## Pho_King (Jul 10, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> Pho_King said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



True.  They are projections.  Perhaps the ACA will reduce the trend of doctors refusing Medicare patients due to....lower reimbursements, perhaps adding 40,000,000 new insureds will not have much of an effect on a pool of available professionals that is the same size (hello wait times), and perhaps the massive liability doctors already have will actually be lessened by the ACA.  On the same page, perhaps the "affordable" part of the ACA will prove to be anything but, perhaps the cost projections will be, like damn near every other government cost projection, massively underestimated (purposefully), and the unicorns we all are waiting for wil not show up.  And in the meantime, with all these projections that may or may not happen, we have endured a successful and massive new power grab from the Feds, a new and far-reaching power to tax individuals for purchases they do not even make, changes that impact every citizen, for the benefit of the roughly 10,000,000 that genuinely cannot afford insurance, and do not already qualify for assistance.


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > Claiming that "83% of physicians" based on this poll is hysterical.  That would be like conducting a survey in my small town and claiming it was representative of the entire state.
> ...



Which is 4% of the people that they recruited.  So, 700 physicians our of 16000 recruitments, of which 90% were in solo or small group practice, say they might leave medicine due to the ACA."  

How is this statistically relevant?


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

Pho_King said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > Pho_King said:
> ...



And maybe if you put a radio in a birds ass you'd have music in the air.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



Show me a credible source that say single digit participation rates are invalid... That argument is B.S. If it exceeds 10% -- I suspect the participation was coerced. 

And EVEN IF the respondents ended up representing private practice -- I AM concerned about the future of those folks. I don't want them them to go away.. So maybe I don't CARE if LARGE institutional staffs were represented. It tells us something..... 

A LOT more than some LEFTIST approved factoids in this forum that just won't die... 
I'm thinking of one that THAT POLLED readers of a single magazine slanted towards academia and proclaimed something about ALL SCIENTISTS.. You know who I'm talking about..


----------



## Warrior102 (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> How is this statistically relevant?



I suggest you contact the author of the piece and ask him/her. 

I am sure he/she will be impressed with your statistical brilliance, or lack thereof. 

Thanks.


----------



## hortysir (Jul 10, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > No doctors will quit medicine like no rich people will dump their citizenship to get out of the US.
> ...



I know of doctors that will no longer accept Medicaid and those that do will not do per-approvals.

Then there are some doctors that won't take Cash payments.....


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > Warrior102 said:
> ...



You have to be kidding.  A 4% response rate is more desirable to a 10% response rate?  

Statistical power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> And EVEN IF the respondents ended up representing private practice -- I AM concerned about the future of those folks. I don't want them them to go away.. So maybe I don't CARE if LARGE institutional staffs were represented. It tells us something.....



It's not "even if", it absolutely does overwhelmingly represent private practice.  Only 11% of the respondents represent hospital based physicians who assume the burden of the under and non insured?  

I am concerned about all physicians, however if we are going to start ban-tying about bombastic numbers, then we should be honest enough to point out that this survey was skewed towards physicians who likely have a financial interest to oppose the ACA.

To that end, you should care if large institutions were represented.  If this statistic is going to be accurate, it should accurately represent physicians in this country statistically.  



> A LOT more than some LEFTIST approved factoids in this forum that just won't die...
> I'm thinking of one that THAT POLLED readers of a single magazine slanted towards academia and proclaimed something about ALL SCIENTISTS.. You know who I'm talking about..



So what?  What does that have to do with me?


----------



## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > How is this statistically relevant?
> ...



I did.  They didn't have a good answer for their obviously skewed poll.  Their response was:  "It was politically biased!  Just look at the responses!"  as if physician responses can compensate for their own screwy methodology.


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## Pho_King (Jul 10, 2012)

CandySlice said:


> Pho_King said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



Excellent point.  I wonder how many lefties have applied that to the utopia promised by the ACA.


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## hortysir (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



I've noticed, with our Guest Satisfaction Surveys, that when there is a very low response rate the scores are generally lower.
Meaning that, mostly, people that are unhappy are the majority of those responding.

Thanks for pointing out the participation rate, Geaux.


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## blu (Jul 10, 2012)

lol people are so gullible and stupid. the 699 that responded were a small % of the overall number of doctors that were contacted (the rest ignored it) and the questions were skewed towards not liking obamacare

but dumbasses eat up whatever fox and drudge shove down their throats


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## Dot Com (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> If you're in favor of some government-issue Doc sticking his fingers in *your ass* during a routine physical - have at it.
> 
> That's why I avoid the VA





Warrior102 said:


> Yes Grampa, I know it's part of an annual exam. Why not take a break from cheerleading Obama's failed health care plan (that President-Elect Romney will repeal) and put your mouth back on Obama's *ass* where it belongs.



You come out yet like Anderson Cooper? If not, why not? You always resort to homo-erotic imagery  You a Log Cabin Repub son?


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## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

blu said:


> lol people are so gullible and stupid. the 699 that responded were a small % of the overall number of doctors that were contacted (the rest ignored it) and the questions were skewed towards not liking obamacare
> 
> but dumbasses eat up whatever fox and drudge shove down their throats



 I don't really believe the American people are that dumb. I'm not a big fan of FOX and I couldn't find the Drudge Report with a compass but Fox DOES have quite a following and I find it hard to believe they're alll crazy. And Im not overlooking the fact the radical right has co-opted factions like the Tea Party etc and there are no shortage of crazies out there but when clearer heads prevail (as they always do, eventually) I think this bill will be seen for what it is and I just hope Obamamania doesn't cost us too dearly.


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## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

hortysir said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > Warrior102 said:
> ...



Thanks.  I am not trying to tout the ACA.  I am just interested in pointing out a biased survey.  

RE:  response rate.  I agree.  That is an inherent problem with Press Ganey Scores.


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## flacaltenn (Jul 10, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



I hate polling -- even more than lawyers or psychiatrists.. (hope I didn't step in it there). 

But the BIAS and MISINTERPRETATION is part of the process.  Here's a PEW Methodology for the recent ACA debate, and BURIED in the methodology you find... 



> Any Court Health Care Decision Unlikely to Please | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
> 
> The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted June 7-17 among 2,013 adults, finds that none of these outcomes is particularly appealing to independents, though more would like to see the law entirely overturned than kept in place. Half (50%) of independents say they would be happy if the entire law is overturned, while only 35% would be happy if the entire law is upheld. Independents have a divided reaction to the court throwing out the individual mandate while upholding the rest of the law (44% happy, 49% unhappy).
> 
> ...



Think THAT made it to media blitz campaign eh? That it was a study of YOUNG ADULTS?

Shamans --- all of them...

 But note --- they got +/- 2.5 percentage points by surveying JUST 2013 people in the whole f'in country !!!!

And what is the EXPECTED response from the GENERAL PUBLIC? 



> Gauging the Impact of Growing Nonresponse on Estimates from a National RDD Telephone Survey
> 
> Where the 1997 Rigorous study completed 1,201 interviews after making 31,385 calls, the 2003 Rigorous study completed 1,089 interviews after 72,485 calls.This decline in productivity is consistent with previous research showing that the number of calls needed to achieve a given response rate has increased dramatically in recent years (Brick et al. 2003; Curtin, Presser, and Singer 2000).



*Single - Digit *  eh? And those ARE THE RIGOROUS surveys... ((note in a RIGOROUS survey, the number of calls refers to retries, opt-outs, and coercing completion of the selected survey participants. Something that takes LOTS of bucks))

1) My conclusion is never trust a poll at all if you don't read the methodology.
2) Then STILL be skeptical.
3) Never accept the journalistic slant.
4) Consider GOOD polling as an anecdotal factoid.. 

So -- I'm not completely defending this non-rigorous poll. It may be IMPOSSIBLE anymore to even do GOOD polling because of general decline in participation. But it IS good enough to make me want to be concerned...


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## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



No, I am in Emergency medicine not psychiatry.  

I agree the poll you cited is also biased.  Two wrongs don't make a right.  

There was certainly a way to conduct a more rigorous poll on this matter.  Physicians in each state are licensed and that is public information.  It wouldn't have been hard to track them down.  The DPMA just wasn't interested in that.  As I said, it would have been more accurate if they would have simply sent out mailers.  Thta's what most other organizations do.  I have no idea why they solicited responses based on fax numbers.  Well, I do, but it's more of a conspiracy theory.  

At any rate, when I see a bombastic poll number or something startling, my antenna goes up and I start researching.  

That is what I did here, and with a small degree of work, it's obvious that this poll is skewed.  

I suspect intentionally so considering the DPMA has a stated bias.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 10, 2012)

So typical liberal.

Doctors say they will leave the practice of medicine.
Liberals say the doctors are all lying.


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## geauxtohell (Jul 10, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> So typical liberal.
> 
> Doctors say they will leave the practice of medicine.
> Liberals say the doctors are all lying.



When did I ever say they were lying?


----------



## Pheonixops (Jul 10, 2012)

hortysir said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > hortysir said:
> ...



I wish you the best of luck in your new endeavors! Those COBRA payments CAN be a bitch to make. Depending on your age and health, maybe it would be better for you to get off of COBRA, find another job and join their group plan. If you qualify for Medicaid, so be it.


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## Pheonixops (Jul 10, 2012)

Charles_Main said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > Charles_Main said:
> ...



The states may just have to raise state taxes to pay for it before they go asking for a bailout. 

What am I actually "claiming"?

The same can be said about all tax credits if that's your line of thought.

I'm not 'ignoring' anything, I'm trying to have a discussion/debate about it so the facts can come out.


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## hortysir (Jul 10, 2012)

Pheonixops said:


> hortysir said:
> 
> 
> > Pheonixops said:
> ...



I've, generally, been lucky in that I'm never out of work so I'm hoping to be able to just step over to another provider.

COBRA price is 440/mo. Got the letter today.
I was paying less than half of that number for everything...Med, Vision, STD, LTD, and FSA.
Employer paid the rest.

It is what it is, though.

Thanks


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## Pheonixops (Jul 10, 2012)

flacaltenn said:


> Pheonixops said:
> 
> 
> > Warrior102 said:
> ...


Are you adverse to reducing growth in government programs such as Medicaid?


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## MikeK (Jul 10, 2012)

The practice of Medicine has devolved from a virtuous calling into a business and the mercenary nature of our increasingly profit-oriented culture has infected the profession with the disease of greed.  

If 83% of the Nation's physicians say they are "considering" _quitting_ the profession I believe them to be individuals who aspired to the business rather than the _calling_ of Medicine and they are voicing the kind of resentment which might be expected from a group of disappointed labor union members.  The first question that occurs is what are all these resigning MDs going to do with all their education and training?  That's also the last question, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to this idle complaining.

I blame the insurance and the pharmaceutical industries for corrupting the medical profession and luring students into the profession with the promise of assured wealth.  That should not be the motivating force that induces one to enter the field of healing, mainly because it attracts the wrong mentality.  The practice of medicine is not a business or a trade, it is an art.  And artists are born not made by the lure of money.  

If the transition to ACA does indeed reduce the income of the average MD the doctors will still be living very well.  They just won't be doing as well as they would if they'd studied business and finance instead.  But those who value the prestige, respect and admiration afforded to the physician over the second Mercedes and the bigger swimming pool will have no regrets and in time their profession will once again be dominated by artists as opposed to businessmen with stethoscopes and prescription pads.


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## auditor0007 (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



Yup, they hate all the paperwork involved with insurance companies.  They would rather see a one payer system to make things easier, so they could devote their time to being doctors rather than filling out so much paperwork.


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## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

MikeK said:


> The practice of Medicine has devolved from a virtuous calling into a business and the mercenary nature of our increasingly profit-oriented culture has infected the profession with the disease of greed.
> 
> If 83% of the Nation's physicians say they are "considering" _quitting_ the profession I believe them to be individuals who aspired to the business rather than the _calling_ of Medicine and they are voicing the kind of resentment which might be expected from a group of disappointed labor union members.  The first question that occurs is what are all these resigning MDs going to do with all their education and training?  That's also the last question, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to this idle complaining.
> 
> ...



That was a powerful opinion and I applaud it. And I agree with you 100%. So much so I wonder why Obama didn't focus on the fraud and double-billing (yes I've said this before)and the pharmaceutical rape that's going on? THERE is our problem. Not overhauling the whole system. Gov't intervention will not solve the problem, it will exacerbate it.


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## Lakhota (Jul 10, 2012)

> Did you know that American doctors are so incensed over Obamacare's big-government communist socialism that more than eight in ten are going to quit doctoring? It's true, according to a terribly conducted survey conducted by a shady right-wing group, reported credulously by the Daily Caller, and hyped by Matt Drudge and Fox News.



More Facts & Truth: Comically Awful Survey Says 83 Percent Of Doctors Might Quit Over Obamacare | Blog | Media Matters for America


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## LilOlLady (Jul 10, 2012)

No problem. Maybe they will like working at WalMart better. We will just bring more in from India and the Philipines. That is all I have been seeing last few years anyway and they are good. American doctors are the reason our healthcare system is so costly. One 10 minute routine office visit cost Medicare $350. That is a crime.
Hell we brought in 20 million illegal aliens to do the jobs Americans will not do. We can do the same and bring in foreign doctors that will not do the job american doctors will not do.


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## Staidhup (Jul 10, 2012)

Every Doctor I know, that still practices, feels strongly that without liability reform the beneficiaries will remain that of unscrupulous lawyers. None addressed the financial implications as it concerned their personal financial well being. Those in research and medical technology have indicated that the current health care bill will have a negative impact on their ability to develop and bring to market new products and equipment. As for the standard and quality of medical care, several voiced concern as to quality of care resulting from institutions inability to remain financially solvent. All agreed that the move toward personalized heath care providers, private hospitals and clinics, independent of insurance restraints, will become popular for those with the financial means to do so.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 10, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



Do you really think that all doctors want to be government employees and pull a salary at whatever the government thinks they should make?


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## beagle9 (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller


Then they are cowards, and never really were their for the American people after all huh? So they were just in it for the money eh (as in the past tense) ?

Probably are the ones who were crooking the system for ever and a day now (wow 83%) must be the idiot ignorant clique sheep doctor followers who will follow the crooks out (just as a thrid of the angels followed Satan out of Heaven or were kicked out), so once The Afforable Care Act takes hold, it's lets get out while we can eh, because the taking will soon be over by those who are guilty in this way ?


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## uscitizen (Jul 10, 2012)

Texas already has a major doctor shortage.  I guess they all went into politics?


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## LilOlLady (Jul 10, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > Warrior102 said:
> ...



Take it or leave it or leave the country or leave the country and practive else where or go back to school.
They are not worth the time anyway. I have doctors that don't take the time to know who you are except by number. Foreign doctors are much better.


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## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> No problem. Maybe they will like working at WalMart better. We will just bring more in from India and the Philipines. That is all I have been seeing last few years anyway and they are good. American doctors are the reason our healthcare system is so costly. One 10 minute routine office visit cost Medicare $350. That is a crime.
> Hell we brought in 20 million illegal aliens to do the jobs Americans will not do. We can do the same and bring in foreign doctors that will not do the job american doctors will not do.



It could be argued the reason office visits are so expensive is because of the price of malpractice insurance lawsuits  brought by an extremely litigious society at the behest of their equally greedy lawyers. Wouldn't that have been a good place to start with HC reform?   And shouldn't it be noted Phillipino and Indian doctors will be sued as vigorously as their American counterparts??


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## LilOlLady (Jul 10, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



Best doctor I have ever had were those working in country clinics to pay off their loans and were on salary.


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## beagle9 (Jul 10, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> No problem. Maybe they will like working at WalMart better. We will just bring more in from India and the Philipines. That is all I have been seeing last few years anyway and they are good. American doctors are the reason our healthcare system is so costly. One 10 minute routine office visit cost Medicare $350. That is a crime.
> Hell we brought in 20 million illegal aliens to do the jobs Americans will not do. We can do the same and bring in foreign doctors that will not do the job american doctors will not do.


Sadly you are probably right, but that doesn't make it right for America in response to..


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## uscitizen (Jul 10, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > auditor0007 said:
> ...



why are so many of them going into politics if not to become govt employees?

The Pauls for instance.
And one of my doctors has run for 2 different offices so far.


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## MikeK (Jul 10, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> No problem. Maybe they will like working at WalMart better. We will just bring more in from India and the Philipines. That is all I have been seeing last few years anyway and they are good. American doctors are the reason our healthcare system is so costly. One 10 minute routine office visit cost Medicare $350. That is a crime.
> Hell we brought in 20 million illegal aliens to do the jobs Americans will not do. We can do the same and bring in foreign doctors that will not do the job american doctors will not do.


The surgeon who performed my colon (cancer) resectioning in 1997 was Dr. Mehadevan Krishnan, an Indian.  His skill precluded the projected possible need for colostomy.  

My present primary physician is Dr. Manjula Thopcherla who speaks English with a heavy Indian accent but is respected by dozens of neigbors in my retirement community who recommended her to me.  She is an excellent physician.  

I'm seeing more and more foreign MDs, mostly Indians, and I'm hearing nothing but good things about them.  When ACA becomes an adopted reality it will create the need for many more physicians here in the U.S.  That need will be filled by foreigners and the effect will be a change in attitude, disposition and policies of the existing practice of Medicine in the U.S.


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## beagle9 (Jul 10, 2012)

CandySlice said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > No problem. Maybe they will like working at WalMart better. We will just bring more in from India and the Philipines. That is all I have been seeing last few years anyway and they are good. American doctors are the reason our healthcare system is so costly. One 10 minute routine office visit cost Medicare $350. That is a crime.
> ...


Who created this litigous society, the government did...Now the government is going to fix it ? LOL

We the average citizens are totally crapped by what the do-gooder government has done over time in this nation..


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## regent (Jul 10, 2012)

I often thought that the government should have a school like the military acadamys to train doctors, nurses, hospital staff, research and so forth. If we can create schools to kill and maim, whey not a school to treat and cure? As the military acadamys require a payback in service for their education, the medical scholarships would require a payback in medical service. Imagine if America had put into medical research just the money it spent for Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan perhaps we would have some cures for cancer and other diseases that are far more fearful than Iraqis invading America.


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## uscitizen (Jul 10, 2012)

MikeK said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > No problem. Maybe they will like working at WalMart better. We will just bring more in from India and the Philipines. That is all I have been seeing last few years anyway and they are good. American doctors are the reason our healthcare system is so costly. One 10 minute routine office visit cost Medicare $350. That is a crime.
> ...



As I posted earlier no problem import more doctors, they are a commodity just like many other things.
Just like any lower level worker they can be replaced.

Nice to see the right wingers supporting the doctors union like activities though


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## beagle9 (Jul 10, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


Once politicians in various offices, then they begin to change the game and the government from within, just like Barack Obama and his huge specific group/crowd has been doing lately.


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## uscitizen (Jul 10, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



My point is that many doctors want to work for the government.


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## uscitizen (Jul 10, 2012)

Doctors Inc.
As Physicians&#8217; Jobs Change, So Do Their PoliticsBy GARDINER HARRIS
Published: May 30, 2011 
AUGUSTA, Me. &#8212; With Republicans in complete control of Maine&#8217;s state government for the first time since 1962, State Senator Lois A. Snowe-Mello offered a bill in February to limit doctors&#8217; liability that she was sure the powerful doctors&#8217; lobby would cheer. Instead, it asked her to shelve the measure. 
&#8220;It was like a slap in the face,&#8221; said Ms. Snowe-Mello, who describes herself as a conservative Republican. &#8220;The doctors in this state are increasingly going left.&#8221; 

~
Doctors were once overwhelmingly male and usually owned their own practices. They generally favored lower taxes and regularly fought lawyers to restrict patient lawsuits. Ronald Reagan came to national political prominence in part by railing against &#8220;socialized medicine&#8221; on doctors&#8217; behalf. 

But doctors are changing. They are abandoning their own practices and taking salaried jobs in hospitals, particularly in the North, but increasingly in the South as well. Half of all younger doctors are women, and that share is likely to grow. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/30/health/policy/30docs.html?pagewanted=all


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## Katzndogz (Jul 10, 2012)

My doctor is a woman, Dr. Jacques from Trinidad.  She doesn't accept insurance.   She has fee for service so a Dr. visit is $50.00 flat, including lab fees.  Because she doesn't accept insurance, she doesn't have a secretary to process insurance forms, doesn't pay work comp or provide insurance for that unnecessary employee.  

What I have noticed about doctors from India is that they won't play the same game American doctors do.  Sue one and they will slap a countersuit faster than you can say "litigation".    Foreign doctors are the pioneers in the AntiSLAPP lawsuit industry.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 10, 2012)

Under communism everyone will be a government worker.  All doctors, hospitals, nurses, will all work for the government and get whatever salary the government sees fit.   The government will also own all the stores and regulate what's on the shelves as well as the prices.  The stockers and sales clerks will all be government employees.   It will be utopia, the true worker's paradise.


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## beagle9 (Jul 10, 2012)

regent said:


> I often thought that the government should have a school like the military acadamys to train doctors, nurses, hospital staff, research and so forth. If we can create schools to kill and maim, whey not a school to treat and cure? As the military acadamys require a payback in service for their education, the medical scholarships would require a payback in medical service. Imagine if America had put into medical research just the money it spent for Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan perhaps we would have some cures for cancer and other diseases that are far more fearful than Iraqis invading America.


Yeah and it could have been that we would be working for a foriegn government if we had not took the fight to them first, especially in world war two.. The other skirmishes abroad since the big wars, just served as for instances if you mess with freedom loving people then look out, because we love freedom no matter where it is in the world, so becareful because you might just end up on the wrong end of a gun, trying to make your point for communism against what was back then oppressed freedom lovers who had America come to help for those who wanted to be free also.

Sadly it didnot work out for all we had set out to help, but at least we didnot abandon the cause of freedom in our motives, or at least until we saw that it was a lost cause by those who began to capitulate/fall under the pressures of a communist regime style of thinking and attacks, who were desperate to keep these partitions as communist sectors no matter what the people had wanted otherwise. They can never say that we didn't try and die for them, when we did so bravely and sacrificially in these wars that have been fought.


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## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> CandySlice said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



Ha, don't get me started and thank you for helping me make my point. You are correct. We are about to be screwed AGAIN by the same entity that has been screwing us all along.
What causes people to vote against their own best interests?


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## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...




Whaaaaa?


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## uscitizen (Jul 10, 2012)

CandySlice said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Ron and Rand Paul work for the government.


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## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> CandySlice said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...



Ron Paul is a professional candidate from one of my neighboring districts and is generally viewed down here as a kook. Rand still has to make his bones in public life but he should've probably stayed in his prior occupation.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



They're going to quit over having 44 million new patients?


----------



## MikeK (Jul 10, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > I often thought that the government should have a school like the military acadamys to train doctors, nurses, hospital staff, research and so forth. If we can create schools to kill and maim, whey not a school to treat and cure? As the military acadamys require a payback in service for their education, the medical scholarships would require a payback in medical service. Imagine if America had put into medical research just the money it spent for Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan perhaps we would have some cures for cancer and other diseases that are far more fearful than Iraqis invading America.
> ...


The bottom line is military adventures like Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan serve no interests other than those of the Military Industrial Complex, miscellaneous war profiteers and the corrupt politicians who facilitate such interests.  Your rather naive and starry-eyed notion that sending our troops off to kill and die in such debacles has, or can, in any way advance the cause of freedom elsewhere in the world is plainly invalid as made evident by the gross and persistent failures of these doomed endeavors.  They do no good and invariably make things worse.  To expect anything different is pathetically futile.

_Regent_ is right.  If the amount of treasure wasted in those military debacles had been applied to promoting medical advances it is likely that life-expectancy in America would by now be extended to 100+ and all types of cancer would be cured by a few injections.  Also our crumbling infrastructure would be fully repaired, college educations would be tuition-free, taxes would held to acceptable levels, and we wouldn't have cities like Detroit and Camden in America.

Because that is how much treasure we've wasted in those phony "wars for freedom."


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## Black_Label (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



Ultra-right wing propaganda that has been debunked. 

Comically Awful Survey Says 83 Percent Of Doctors Might Quit Over Obamacare | Blog | Media Matters for America


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## CandySlice (Jul 10, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



Unbelievable, just. . . .unbelievable.


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## beagle9 (Jul 10, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Your rather naive and starry-eyed notion that sending our troops off to kill and die in such debacles has, or can, in any way advance the cause of freedom elsewhere in the world is plainly invalid as made evident by the gross and persistent failures of these doomed endeavors.  They do no good and invariably make things worse.  To expect anything different is pathetically futile.



And you would say this to those troops for whom I guess you know better than they did about what they were fighting for and why ? Can you actually do this with a straight face, I mean tell a vet that he was fighting in every war since world war two for nothing ? Would these wars had been failures, if we would have had the proper support back here like we should have, instead of being infiltrated with communist in which Mcarthur warned us all about, whom were working the inside while the communist foriegn enemy abroad was working the outside, and all from within the theaters in which we were found fighting against communism in, and this for those who wanted what we had here (FREEDOM), except only that they could destroy it and replace it with their own? Communist infiltration is here and Mcarthur was 100% right about the communist infiltration into America's great halls of power. It is working it's propaghanda on us till this very day in this nation, and it apears to be winning sadly enough.


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## Vidi (Jul 10, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Your rather naive and starry-eyed notion that sending our troops off to kill and die in such debacles has, or can, in any way advance the cause of freedom elsewhere in the world is plainly invalid as made evident by the gross and persistent failures of these doomed endeavors.  They do no good and invariably make things worse.  To expect anything different is pathetically futile.
> ...




Yes yes, every person who dissents is obviously a communist...you do realize that communism failed and even the communists know that right?

Maybe its time to choose a new boogy man. Like Cosplayers or something equally as frightening.


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## lloydzerna86 (Jul 10, 2012)

When there is an uprising society change will follow. That is what is happening now.


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## LilOlLady (Jul 10, 2012)

syrenn said:


> can you blame them?



Don;t let the door hit you on the way out.


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## Vidi (Jul 10, 2012)

lloydzerna86 said:


> When there is an uprising society change will follow. That is what is happening now.




Nope. Too many Xbox's for an uprising. The majority is placated.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Jul 10, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



Are they quitting or are they considering quitting?

Who here has ever considered quitting a job and not actually quit? Nobody I'm sure. That never happens.


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## beagle9 (Jul 11, 2012)

Vidi said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...


Many figured the old south had fallen also, but did they ? They (the plantation owners), along with communist thinking occupy the nations corporations as found within the spirit of these two forms of thinking till this day..


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## MarcATL (Jul 11, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> Ron and Rand Paul work for the government.


Yep, and they both love it! As they prosper GREATLY for it. They both left the private sector to suck on the government teet.



CandySlice said:


> Ron Paul is a professional candidate from one of my neighboring districts and is generally viewed down here as a kook. Rand still has to make his bones in public life but he should've probably stayed in his prior occupation.


They're both kooks, Rand isn't too far from pops. I'm not yet sure which one is worse, Rand SEEMS to be more sane, just slightly. But that's just for the time being. I have a sinking feeling that he's more kookier. We'll find out soon enough.



beagle9 said:


> And you would say this to those troops for whom I guess you know better than they did about what they were fighting for and why ? Can you actually do this with a straight face, I mean tell a vet that he was fighting in every war since world war two for nothing ? Would these wars had been failures, if we would have had the proper support back here like we should have, instead of being infiltrated with communist in which Mcarthur warned us all about, whom were working the inside while the communist foriegn enemy abroad was working the outside, and all from within the theaters in which we were found fighting against communism in, and this for those who wanted what we had here (FREEDOM), except only that they could destroy it and replace it with their own? Communist infiltration is here and Mcarthur was 100% right about the communist infiltration into America's great halls of power. It is working it's propaghanda on us till this very day in this nation, and it apears to be winning sadly enough.


What does feelings have to do with facts? It's not about how the troops FEEL you kook.

This post has cemented your place in the nutjob category for good. Enjoy your status.


----------



## CandySlice (Jul 11, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > Ron and Rand Paul work for the government.
> ...


----------



## Vidi (Jul 11, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > beagle9 said:
> ...



Is this some of that the south is gonna rise again craziness?


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## geauxtohell (Jul 11, 2012)

regent said:


> i often thought that the government should have a school like the military acadamys to train doctors, nurses, hospital staff, research and so forth. If we can create schools to kill and maim, whey not a school to treat and cure? As the military acadamys require a payback in service for their education, the medical scholarships would require a payback in medical service. Imagine if america had put into medical research just the money it spent for vietnam iraq and afghanistan perhaps we would have some cures for cancer and other diseases that are far more fearful than iraqis invading america.



ushus


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## daveman (Jul 11, 2012)

Vidi said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...


Anybody who dissents against Obama is a traitor.

Or so the leftist bumper sticker meme goes.


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## daveman (Jul 11, 2012)

regent said:


> I often thought that the government should have a school like the military acadamys to train doctors, nurses, hospital staff, research and so forth. If we can create schools to kill and maim, whey not a school to treat and cure? As the military acadamys require a payback in service for their education, the medical scholarships would require a payback in medical service. Imagine if America had put into medical research just the money it spent for Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan perhaps we would have some cures for cancer and other diseases that are far more fearful than Iraqis invading America.


Or we could encourage medical professionals to enter military service, often paying for the education in exchange for a service obligation.

You know -- like we do now.  And it works pretty good.  

More government is not the solution to every problem.


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## Vidi (Jul 11, 2012)

daveman said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > I often thought that the government should have a school like the military acadamys to train doctors, nurses, hospital staff, research and so forth. If we can create schools to kill and maim, whey not a school to treat and cure? As the military acadamys require a payback in service for their education, the medical scholarships would require a payback in medical service. Imagine if America had put into medical research just the money it spent for Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan perhaps we would have some cures for cancer and other diseases that are far more fearful than Iraqis invading America.
> ...




Are you saying that the Military is not part of the goverment?


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## geauxtohell (Jul 11, 2012)

daveman said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> > I often thought that the government should have a school like the military acadamys to train doctors, nurses, hospital staff, research and so forth. If we can create schools to kill and maim, whey not a school to treat and cure? As the military acadamys require a payback in service for their education, the medical scholarships would require a payback in medical service. Imagine if America had put into medical research just the money it spent for Vietnam Iraq and Afghanistan perhaps we would have some cures for cancer and other diseases that are far more fearful than Iraqis invading America.
> ...



Forcing physicians to join the military is more government for those being conscripted.........


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## Greenbeard (Jul 11, 2012)

Vidi said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...



Nah! See one of the two posters quoted above suggested government-funded medical education in exchange for a public service obligation. The other suggested...oh, nevermind. They suggested the same thing.


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## MikeK (Jul 11, 2012)

beagle9 said:


> And you would say this to those troops for whom I guess you know better than they did about what they were fighting for and why ? Can you actually do this with a straight face, I mean tell a vet that he was fighting in every war since world war two for nothing ? Would these wars had been failures, if we would have had the proper support back here like we should have, instead of being infiltrated with communist in which Mcarthur warned us all about, whom were working the inside while the communist foriegn enemy abroad was working the outside, and all from within the theaters in which we were found fighting against communism in, and this for those who wanted what we had here (FREEDOM), except only that they could destroy it and replace it with their own? Communist infiltration is here and Mcarthur was 100% right about the communist infiltration into America's great halls of power. It is working it's propaghanda on us till this very day in this nation, and it apears to be winning sadly enough.


I don't wish to insult or offend you but you clearly are in need of some very basic education.  A good place to start is with a book called, _The Fog of War,_ by Robert MacNamara.  He was Secretary of Defense during the Vietnam debacle and was largely responsible for all the death, waste, and misery associated with that shameful misuse of our military resources.  In his book MacNamara, himself, finally admits that the presence of American troops in Vietnam was an _unnecessary mistake_ -- which is the euphemism he chose rather than saying it was a wholly unjustifiable waste of life and treasure for which he was mainly responsible.

As for your irrational and obsessive fear of communism; I urge you to consider those nation's which have been receptive to a communist form of government.  In every case they have been economically destitute and recovering from the devastation of revolution or other prolonged armed internal conflict.  This is the only type of nation which might possibly adopt the communist ideology -- and it is a type which is diametrically opposite the political and social status of the United States.  Communism has as much chance of gaining a foothold in America as a hot dog vendor would have at a Texas barbecue.  

And your choice of heroes is rather misguided in that Douglas MacArthur is one of our Nation's most overrated historical figures.  He was a politician in uniform who didn't hesitate to lead an attack against an encampment of homeless and destitute American Army veterans, many of whom he once commanded, who were striking in a demand for the bonuses they were promised.  (If you'd like to learn more about that just Google up "MacArthur - Hooverville.")  He also didn't hesitate to abandon his army when the Japanese took the Philippines.  His now famous parting declaration, _"I Shall Return,"_ has been paraphrased by veteran/survivors of the fall of Corregidor as _"Fuck you -- I'm outta here!"_  If some 2nd Lieutenant did what he did it would be called cowardice in the face of the enemy and desertion.    

If you need a truly heroic military officer to admire, look up General Lewis ("Chesty") Puller.  He was an officer and a true soldier -- not a politician in uniform

Another good book for you to read is, _"Born On The Fourth Of July,"_ by Ron Kovic.  He was an idealistic and patriotic young Marine who was wounded and paralyzed in Vietnam.  He had a lot of time to think about things and I'm sure you'll be interested in reading what he has to say.  It's very educational.

The question now is whether or not you are at all educable or if you've been so thoroughly brainwashed there is little or no hope for you.


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## daveman (Jul 11, 2012)

Vidi said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...


"More government is not the solution to every problem."

Read it again.  Pay particular attention to the first word.


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## daveman (Jul 11, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > regent said:
> ...


Indeed.  And you'll please note that the word "encourage" is in no way a synonym for the word "force".


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## daveman (Jul 11, 2012)

Greenbeard said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


Yeah, not really.  But thanks for playing.


----------



## beagle9 (Jul 11, 2012)

MarcATL said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > Ron and Rand Paul work for the government.
> ...


Well whatdaya know, a kook trying to call someone else a kook....Muuwhahahahahahahaha, it's just to funny this place is.. Hmmmm they always say that it takes one to know one, so I guess we will be kooks together in this kooky place called earth until the end then.


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## Vidi (Jul 11, 2012)

daveman said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...




So you want them to incenitvize it? So more government spending. So "more" government.


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## MarcATL (Jul 11, 2012)

MikeK said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> > And you would say this to those troops for whom I guess you know better than they did about what they were fighting for and why ? Can you actually do this with a straight face, I mean tell a vet that he was fighting in every war since world war two for nothing ? Would these wars had been failures, if we would have had the proper support back here like we should have, instead of being infiltrated with communist in which Mcarthur warned us all about, whom were working the inside while the communist foriegn enemy abroad was working the outside, and all from within the theaters in which we were found fighting against communism in, and this for those who wanted what we had here (FREEDOM), except only that they could destroy it and replace it with their own? Communist infiltration is here and Mcarthur was 100% right about the communist infiltration into America's great halls of power. It is working it's propaghanda on us till this very day in this nation, and it apears to be winning sadly enough.
> ...


 POWERFUL!!!


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## daveman (Jul 12, 2012)

Vidi said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > geauxtohell said:
> ...



No, genius.  I want them to _continue doing exactly as they have been_.  

It's working fine.  We don't need any more leftist feel-good bullshit.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 12, 2012)

Everyone on this post is wasting their time. The stat of 83% is a deception. They sent out 16000 surveys to  doctors and 83% of those who responded said they had considered quitting. Sounds good, but only 700 actually responded. So more accurate stats would show that only 3.6% of doctors considered quitting (since non responses on surveys like these almost entirely favor the less radical response).


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## daveman (Jul 12, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> Everyone on this post is wasting their time. The stat of 83% is a deception. They sent out 16000 surveys to  doctors and 83% of those who responded said they had considered quitting. Sounds good, but only 700 actually responded. So more accurate stats would show that only 3.6% of doctors considered quitting (*since non responses on surveys like these almost entirely favor the less radical response*).



Well, that's handy to claim, isn't it?

Got anything to back it up?


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 12, 2012)

daveman said:


> atlasshrugged said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone on this post is wasting their time. The stat of 83% is a deception. They sent out 16000 surveys to  doctors and 83% of those who responded said they had considered quitting. Sounds good, but only 700 actually responded. So more accurate stats would show that only 3.6% of doctors considered quitting (*since non responses on surveys like these almost entirely favor the less radical response*).
> ...



Common sense and a Stats degree. Think about it, ho many of those 15,300 doctors thought to themselves "Yeah, I've thought of quitting. In fact, I'm so raging mad at Obama that I am going to... not fill out this survey." There's a reason why there are so compliments and thank yous in the vent section of your newspaper (or these forums for that matter). People act when they are motivated to do so, and that's usually when they are not happy about something.


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## geauxtohell (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > atlasshrugged said:
> ...



Here is what you are looking for.

Non-response bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A 4% response rate isn't exactly great.  If the Doctor Patient people were actually interested in an accurate survey, they would have figured out a way to get more responses.

And they would have gotten more than a 10% response rate from hospital based physicians.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 13, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> atlasshrugged said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Thank you. I tried attaching a link but since I'm a newbie, I guess I don't have that privilege yet. Stats can only be used to make assumptions about a population if the sample is random and large enough. I had to laugh out loud when I read their publishings.


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## geauxtohell (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > atlasshrugged said:
> ...



The biggest canard is the fact that they recruited respondents via fax line.  Which means that if a doctor didn't have a fax, they weren't part of the survey.

Which, not surprisingly, led to a sample that was comprised overwhelmingly of solo and small group providers.  Emergency Medicine wasn't represented in the results.  You know, the profession that is treating a lion's share of the unemployed.


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## daveman (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > atlasshrugged said:
> ...


Okay.


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## Moonglow (Jul 13, 2012)

daveman said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Is that what your boyfriend has been trying on you?


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## daveman (Jul 16, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Vidi said:
> ...


Oh, look:  A homophobic leftist using homosexuality as an insult.

Gasp.


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## Dot Com (Jul 16, 2012)

Dot Com said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > Zxereus said:
> ...



kewl thread


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## yidnar (Jul 16, 2012)

Vidi said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > This study should be the topic of a few hundred million of the upcoming SuperPac ads.
> ...


no it's true !!! and the leftist commy bastards in this country will never admitt it !!! the left would rather lose 80% of our doctors than admitt they are wrong !!


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## billyerock1991 (Jul 18, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



YOU KNOW I DON'T KNOW WHAT RIGHT WING SITE YOU READ FROM BUT STOP GOING THERE ... ITS FULL OF BS INFORMATION ... MY DOCTOR AND ALL OF THE DOCTORS THAT I GO TO HAVE SAID STUPID REPUBLICANS THEY JUST DON'T GET IT ... 83%  WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING


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## Luddly Neddite (Jul 21, 2012)

billyerock1991 said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



Everyone now knows that the "poll" was fake, just more crap from the Rs to scare people and get away with taking good health care away from us. Notice the Rs don't volunteer to end their own coverage. 

But, rw's will keep quoting it because the last thing they want is to have to take responsibility for their own health care costs. With the SOCIALIST system we NOW have, they can stick other with their bill.

I'd love to know what percentage of don't have car insurance. Bet its sky high but they'd never tell the truth.


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## azazazaza (Sep 5, 2012)

Wow us physicians are greedy as hell if they take all that money.Who the hell anywhere in the whole wide world takes 1,500 for stitches,and so much money for surgeries,I may come from a small and not so rich country but we only pay 16 and something dollars every month for health care(if you study in university it is covered ,you pay nothing) and if you work it comes from your salary and it's really nothing,that's cheap.They made a law that if you don't pay you health insurance you cannot own a car because many people have money but won't pay.Everyone has personal General Practitioner you go to them they examine you and per say your heart hurts or you have a rash they give you a piece of paper for free and you go to the heart specialist for free you only pay the gp 2.90dollars.If you don't have that piece of paper the exam cost from 50 to 100 dollars.Most doctors have private practices but still work at the hospitals.For children up to 18 years medical care is absolutely free.Can someone explain to me why that health system can't be done in the us?What is the problem?Is it too expensive or something I am interested?Also your med schools are really really expensive,how do normal people pay the costs we only pay 900dollars a year for med school.Sorry for the long post but I was looking up about your elections coming and got interested in your medical care,seeing it was a major issue in your country,well,because I study medicine and I am interested in med care around the world.


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## flacaltenn (Sep 5, 2012)

azazazaza said:


> Wow us physicians are greedy as hell if they take all that money.Who the hell anywhere in the whole wide world takes 1,500 for stitches,and so much money for surgeries,I may come from a small and not so rich country but we only pay 16 and something dollars every month for health care(if you study in university it is covered ,you pay nothing) and if you work it comes from your salary and it's really nothing,that's cheap.They made a law that if you don't pay you health insurance you cannot own a car because many people have money but won't pay.Everyone has personal General Practitioner you go to them they examine you and per say your heart hurts or you have a rash they give you a piece of paper for free and you go to the heart specialist for free you only pay the gp 2.90dollars.If you don't have that piece of paper the exam cost from 50 to 100 dollars.Most doctors have private practices but still work at the hospitals.For children up to 18 years medical care is absolutely free.Can someone explain to me why that health system can't be done in the us?What is the problem?Is it too expensive or something I am interested?Also your med schools are really really expensive,how do normal people pay the costs we only pay 900dollars a year for med school.Sorry for the long post but I was looking up about your elections coming and got interested in your medical care,seeing it was a major issue in your country,well,because I study medicine and I am interested in med care around the world.



It's simple math. If your cardiologists are only make 2.90 for an office visit and your avg factory worker is making 4.00 a day -- then Med school should be about a years avg salary.

You can have a 4 times difference in the cost of a hospital bed depending on where you live in the USA. It's all local standard of living. Tell me what is the cost of gasoline is there and we can figure out what kind of paradise you live in.. 

But I guarantee that most of the advanced DRUGS you prescribe and the MRI machines you buy are OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive given that relative value of your currency..


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## MikeK (Sep 5, 2012)

Vidi said:


> First, lets TRY to actually use our own brains here, shall we?
> 
> 83% of doctors are going to quit doctoring and do what? Become truck drivers? Bullshit.
> 
> ...


I agree.  It's total bullshit!

I had a colonoscopy last month.  Medicare and my supplement carrier paid over $5,500.  The entire procedure took about an hour.  And while I know there were many peripheral expenses involved, such as the anesthesiologist, other assistants, and the hospital service, I doubt very much the doctor walked away with less than $2,000 for his 30 minute effort.  

When I visit my primary care physician she spends 15 minutes with me and bills Medicare $120.  She sees about 12 - 15 patients a day.

And they're going to quit?

Bullshit is right!


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## flacaltenn (Sep 5, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Vidi said:
> 
> 
> > First, lets TRY to actually use our own brains here, shall we?
> ...



Why don't you read the billing guidelines for an office visit reimbursement and get back to me.. NO doctor gets $120 Medicare reimbursement for an office visit unless you walk in nearly dead.. They may BILL $120 bucks but they don't get it. And the cost of just RECORDING your visit and submitting the paperwork is at LEAST $30. 

10 billing & coding tips to boost your reimbursement &mdash; The Journal of Family Practice

When you understand all that -- let me know how much you'd charge.


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## Bigdaddydem (Sep 7, 2012)

Doctors are not going to quit over Obama Care.  Instead of greeting their patients at the doctor's office they would have to greet them at the front door of Wal-Mart.  Yes the new health care makes it rough on them.....but it ain't that bad yet.


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## junkyard48 (Sep 22, 2012)

U know some people dont know that when you get on Medicare that does not pay for all medical bills  thats why most have to take  out a xtra insurance to pay for perscriptions & stuff Medicare wont pay , But what I found out  was once I took out another Insurance  I No longer can use  Medicare,But I still must Pay the monthly premium on Medicare, A $100.00 a month for Medicare but cant use it,So now I Pay a Premium on 2 insurances  & one I cant usem Really Ticks me off That  I pay but President Obammy gets all his free but yet he wants us to tighten our Belts While he is  Running around the wopld with Wifey & kids & all his friends we pay for to go & he orders Dinner or Supper from Chicgo that gets flown in & he wants us to tighten our F- - - kng  Beltshe works for us he should be sending us on Vacations Muslim piece of Sh- -


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 22, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | *The Daily Caller*



How man times do you need to eat bullshit to stop eating it?


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 22, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> syrenn said:
> 
> 
> > can you blame them?
> ...


Medical school is only 4 years. And any doctor who entered med school thinking the medical industry wasn't regulated by government and has been for generations probably was too stupid to ever finish. Fuck you're dumb.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 22, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



90% of liberals thought of moving to Canada when Bush was elected the 2nd time. Most of us are still here.

People think about  alot of things.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 22, 2012)

> One of our primary concerns is that youve got an aging physician workforce and you have these new beneficiaries  these newly insured people  coming through the system, he said. There will be strains and there will be physician shortages.
> 
> Read more: Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller





Its such a horrible thing that people who do not have health care will now be able to go see a doctor when they need to. What a nightmare. Health care isn't for everyone!


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## MikeK (Sep 22, 2012)

The major problem with health care in the U.S. is the influence of the insurance industry and the legal profession.  The problems would be effectively solved by creation of a single payer system which is facilitated by the extensive use of para-professionals wherever feasible.  

When I was in the military (in the 1950s) and I had a medical problem I went to _Sick Bay_ where I was interviewed and examined by an enlisted grade Navy Medical Corpsman.  If the Corpsman felt confident that he could treat my complaint, he did.  If not, he referred me to a higher ranking Corpsman or to the Duty MD (a Navy officer).  I believe the ratio of assignment was one MD referral for every 23 complaints.  

Once, while on maneuvers in the Philippines I developed a huge, painful boil on an inner thigh.  The Navy Corpsman in the field with us was a young fellow no older than I.  He sprayed a topical anesthetic, lanced the boil, put a drain in it, dressed it, gave me a penicillin shot and a little box of penicillin tablets.  I was back on full duty next day.  

Another time I turned into Sick Bay with an infected finger.  The Corpsman who examined it gave me a little box of penicillin tablets.  The infection was gone by the next morning.  

A few years ago I had an infected finger on a Friday afternoon too late to see my GP.  I went to an emergency room where I waited two hours to be interviewed by a social worker who filled out a pile of forms.  They put me in a bed and covered me with a sheet and I waited for more than another hour for a tired MD who insisted on lancing the finger in spite of my insistence I needed only some penicillin tablets.  

Bottom line my insurance carrier was billed over $500 for a "surgical procedure," which amounted to a quick jab with a scalpel, a ten minute dunk in BetaDyne solution, and a band-aid.  And that typical redundancy is a perfect example of why we have such a problem with health care in America.  

If there was a walk-in clinic I could have gone to and been seen by a nurse practicioner or an experienced former EMT, or a retired military medic, etc.  I would have been in and out in half an hour and the cost would have been nominal.  

If such walk-in clinics were located in low-income neighborhoods they would take the pressure off hospital emergency rooms and free up hundreds of physicians.  And I'm not saying MDs can be replaced by para-professionals.  What I'm saying is, by analogy, it doesn't require an automotive engineer to diagnose and solve an engine problem which is caused by a defective or worn spark plug.  All it takes is an experienced mechanic.


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## uscitizen (Sep 22, 2012)

Doctors have CONSIDERED quitting.

Who has not considered quitting a job?

In any case we can just insource doctors from India and such, KY is already full of em and many more eager to come over.

Ain't the global marketplace just grand?


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## daveman (Sep 22, 2012)

MikeK said:


> I had a colonoscopy last month.



Did they find your head?


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## MikeK (Sep 23, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> Doctors have CONSIDERED quitting.


_Quitting_ -- to do what?  The very idea makes absolutely no sense and equates to an infantile tantrum.  



> Who has not considered quitting a job?


The _practice_ of medicine is not a job.  It is the most respected of all professions.  And it's too bad the practice of healing has evolved from an art into a business.  The physician is no longer satisfied with being revered.  Now he wants to be rich, too.  



> In any case we can just insource doctors from India and such, KY is already full of em and many more eager to come over.
> 
> Ain't the global marketplace just grand?


The surgeon who performed my colon cancer surgery was a Hindu.  

My present GP is an Indian woman.  

The anesthesiologist who attended my recent colonoscopy was Indian or Pakistani.  

The gasteroenterologist who diagnosed my colon cancer was a beautiful woman -- from England.

The serologist who did my last blood work appeared to be Filipino or Indo -- and he was quite expert.  I barely felt the needle.  

I don't know how it is in the rest of the Country but here in New Jersey American medical professionals appear outnumbered.

But so far the dentists have all been American Jews.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 23, 2012)

I'm sure even the dumbest rw's know this bogus story has been debunked as the pubpot lie that it is, but that doesn't stop them from telling and retelling it over and over again.

**yawn**


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## geauxtohell (Sep 24, 2012)

Have all those Doctors quit yet?  Papa needs him some job security.............


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## AquaAthena (Sep 24, 2012)

Warrior102 said:


> What is this country becoming?
> 
> Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare | The Daily Caller



My 71 year young, auntie, tells me her doctor, who was reared and educated in Canada, has told her Obama wants medical clinicians to become "Physician Assistants" instead of physicians...


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## geauxtohell (Sep 24, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



That makes no sense.

The reality is that many PCPs have elected to only do outpatient medicine.  In doing so, many of those physicians have let their skills and certification for minor surgical procedures and other "doctor only" skill sets lapse.  Even something as simple as a central line is something that some doctors refuse to do and many PCPs refuse to deal with high acuity patients.

For the physicians who can wear that shoe, what remains is pill-rolling and outpatient clinical medicine.  There is nothing wrong with that, but the reality is that the job they are doing is something that can, and is, done by physicians assistants and nurse practitioners. 

And it's hardly a new phenomenon.  

That's not the fault of the government.  It's the fault of the doctor who has opted not to maintain the skills that set him apart from mid-level practitioners.


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## Care4all (Sep 24, 2012)

the Poll was done by a group that was less than a year in the making who formed because they were against Obamacare, they had a very low response and they never asked if the Doctors considered quitting due to obamacare...so sadly, this has to be chalked  up as another lie from the right wing.  Regardless of what you think, FACT CHECKING is your friend, not your enemy guys and gals....

Read the whole article Here: PolitiFact | GOP lawmaker Jeff Duncan repeats survey finding that 83 percent of doctors are considering quitting due to Obamacare

and the summary is below....



> *Our ruling*
> 
> Duncan said "83% of doctors have considered leaving the profession  because of #Obamacare." But that's an inaccurate description of the  foundation&#8217;s poll.
> 
> The poll did not specifically ask about the federal health care law and  was meant to measure concerns about a wide range of changes in health  care. Also, it's worth noting that the poll had a small return rate and  the group that conducted it is opposed to the law. We rate the claim  False.


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## Luddly Neddite (Sep 24, 2012)

Care4all said:


> the Poll was done by a group that was less than a year in the making who formed because they were against Obamacare, they had a very low response and they never asked if the Doctors considered quitting due to obamacare...so sadly, this has to be chalked  up as another lie from the right wing.  Regardless of what you think, FACT CHECKING is your friend, not your enemy guys and gals....
> 
> Read the whole article Here: PolitiFact | GOP lawmaker Jeff Duncan repeats survey finding that 83 percent of doctors are considering quitting due to Obamacare
> 
> ...



FACTS??

How DAST you bring FACTS into a discussion that depends on wild eyed speculation and half baked lies.


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## geauxtohell (Sep 24, 2012)

Care4all said:


> the Poll was done by a group that was less than a year in the making who formed because they were against Obamacare, they had a very low response and they never asked if the Doctors considered quitting due to obamacare...so sadly, this has to be chalked  up as another lie from the right wing.  Regardless of what you think, FACT CHECKING is your friend, not your enemy guys and gals....
> 
> Read the whole article Here: PolitiFact | GOP lawmaker Jeff Duncan repeats survey finding that 83 percent of doctors are considering quitting due to Obamacare
> 
> ...



The whole methodology behind that poll was hilarious.  They selected for the results they wanted and tried to pass it off as a legit survey.

Yiou could tell the poll was hopelessly skewed when they recruited respondants by fax, which means that the overwhelming number of participants were small and solo outpatient practitioners.  Thus, only about 11% of physicians polled were "hospital based".  

It's the kind of laughable statistical shenanigans that people who read scientific papers shred and mock.  I don't know who the hell they were trying to fool.

Oh yeah....  The gullible American public.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 24, 2012)

AquaAthena said:


> Warrior102 said:
> 
> 
> > What is this country becoming?
> ...



Well I guess that settles it then. Whatever your Aunt says her Doctor says about Obama must be true.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 24, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> Care4all said:
> 
> 
> > the Poll was done by a group that was less than a year in the making who formed because they were against Obamacare, they had a very low response and they never asked if the Doctors considered quitting due to obamacare...so sadly, this has to be chalked  up as another lie from the right wing.  Regardless of what you think, FACT CHECKING is your friend, not your enemy guys and gals....
> ...




Ahh SHIT!

I just spent the past 12 hours filling our applications for MEDICAL SCHOOL. I figured that since the supply of medical doctors was about to drop 83%, they would be in high demand. Are you telling me all that effort was wasted?


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## Politico (Sep 24, 2012)

Not gonna happen.


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## MikeK (Sep 24, 2012)

geauxtohell said:


> Have all those Doctors quit yet?  Papa needs him some job security.............


You will always live well and be respected, admired, and considered a prize catch by women.  And as long as you avoid being infected by greed you have a clear shot at a happy and satisfied life.

I envy you.


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## uscitizen (Sep 25, 2012)

You know if the ACA does well and people like it the right have immortalized Obama for all time by calling it Obamacare


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## Katzndogz (Sep 25, 2012)

uscitizen said:


> You know if the ACA does well and people like it the right have immortalized Obama for all time by calling it Obamacare



If it continues on it's present course to absolute disaster it will be called obamacare too.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Sep 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > You know if the ACA does well and people like it the right have immortalized Obama for all time by calling it Obamacare
> ...



99% of America with health insurance.

Now that's a disaster.


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## Katzndogz (Sep 25, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > uscitizen said:
> ...



Only if they get care.   obamacare guarantees coverage, not treatment, and not care either.  In fact, what we are getting so far is government study after government study saying that care doesn't help.   Mammograms are being limited. So are  prostate exams.   Chemotreatment for cancer doesn't work and the medications that treat cancer are being taken off the market.  

Not one lib has ever explained why they think that under obamacare they will actually get care when obama himself said it wouldn't happen.


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## geauxtohell (Sep 25, 2012)

MikeK said:


> geauxtohell said:
> 
> 
> > Have all those Doctors quit yet?  Papa needs him some job security.............
> ...



I am not worried, and I never was.

In strictly economic terms, I am on the supply side of a profession that's demand exceeds all imagination.


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## geauxtohell (Sep 25, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



Prostate exams are being limited?  Gotta tell ya', sticking a finger up someone's keester isn't a high cost endeavor.  

The mammogram position change fare predates "Obamacare" too.  I have no idea what you are talking about with chemo drugs.


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