# Does anyone invest in Bitcoin?



## MarathonMike

I haven't looked into it, but I just saw that bitcoins are now worth more than an ounce of gold. If anyone owns them or understands how this "currency" works, please explain.


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## danielpalos

MarathonMike said:


> I haven't looked into it, but I just saw that bitcoins are now worth more than an ounce of gold. If anyone owns them or understands how this "currency" works, please explain.


I can't afford to establish a, petty cash fund for that purpose, yet.


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## Muhammed

Years ago my employer gave me the option of getting part of my quarterly bonus in bitcoin. Around $10,000. I didn't know jack shit about bitcoin. Never heard of bitcoin. He explained why he invests in bitcoin. I'm a gambling man so I decided to take a gamble. I got lucky as hell. In months that gamble was worth six figures. 

I wouldn't invest in bitcoin again though. My instincts told me to quit while I was ahead and not to play that game again.


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## strollingbones

ah i refused the risk.....we would have had millions or lost it all by now...bitcoins came about due to the silk road which has been closed..they were used for illegal activities and still are...they exist in a digital world only.....and can be taken quickly


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## Fueri

I do.  Have for years at this point.  Mined it, bought it, hold it, trade it on exchanges.  

I don't mine bitcoin any longer, however, as it isn't cost effective with the electricity burned costing more than it would to just buy them.

I mine/hold/trade Ethereum as well. Those miners are still running.


They both operate on distributed ledger systems, aka blockchain, whereby there's no need for a third party, such as a bank or brokerage, to verify transactions.   They also perform a myriad of other functions, with new apps rolling out continuously.

Btc is a value store similar to money.  Ethereum operates what are known as smart contracts, which allow various things to be coded into an agreement that no longer needs a clearinghouse or third part. This offers substantial potential savings in financial markets, and has many, many other applications as well in telecomm, pharma, supply chain management etc.

There are various other "coins" as well that serve one purpose or another.  They are known as "alt-coins" or ""alts".

This is taking hold on a global level, with multi-conglomerate consortiums being formed working with ethereum, various private blockchain initiatives rolling out etc.  Goverments, such as China, are experimenting with blockchain tech to digitize their currency.  States and municipalities are working in implementing this tech to save money.

Many companies have formed what is called the ethereum alliance.  Announced a few months ago it continues to grow in size.  The article also discusses how they work.

Bigger than bitcoin? Enterprise Ethereum Alliance grows in size

"Corporate support for the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance (EEA) is growing after 86 firms including State Street, Toyota, Merck, ING, Broadridge and Rabobank joined the collective that is seeking to use blockchain technology to run smart contracts at Fortune 500 companies."

"JPMorgan Chase, Microsoft, CME Group, BNY Mellon and other large multinationals are already EEA members, having joined when it was established in February 2017.

In a statement, Julio Faura, chairman of the EEA and head of blockchain innovation at Banco Santander, said, "the enthusiasm around EEA is remarkable".

He added: "Our new members come from varying industries such as pharma, mobile, banking, automotive, management consulting, and hardware."



I posted something on these in the investments section, as price is utterly exploding, but got no takers....


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## Fueri

Bitcoin currently @ $2550ish

Bitcoin (BTC) - Live Bitcoin price and market cap

Ethereum @ $190ish

Ethereum (ETH) - Live Ether price and market cap


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## MarathonMike

Fueri said:


> I do.  Have for years at this point.  Mined it, bought it, hold it, trade it on exchanges.
> 
> I don't mine bitcoin any longer, however, as it isn't cost effective with the electricity burned costing more than it would to just buy them.
> 
> I mine/hold/trade Ethereum as well. Those miners are still running.
> 
> 
> They both operate on distributed ledger systems, aka blockchain, whereby there's no need for a third party, such as a bank or brokerage, to verify transactions.   They also perform a myriad of other functions, with new apps rolling out continuously.
> 
> Btc is a value store similar to money.  Ethereum operates what are known as smart contracts, which allow various things to be coded into an agreement that no longer needs a clearinghouse or third part. This offers substantial potential savings in financial markets, and has many, many other applications as well in telecomm, pharma, supply chain management etc.
> 
> There are various other "coins" as well that serve one purpose or another.  They are known as "alt-coins" or ""alts".
> 
> This is taking hold on a global level, with multi-conglomerate consortiums being formed working with ethereum, various private blockchain initiatives rolling out etc.  Goverments, such as China, are experimenting with blockchain tech to digitize their currency.  States and municipalities are working in implementing this tech to save money.
> 
> Many companies have formed what is called the ethereum alliance.  Announced a few months ago it continues to grow in size.  The article also discusses how they work.
> 
> Bigger than bitcoin? Enterprise Ethereum Alliance grows in size
> 
> "Corporate support for the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance (EEA) is growing after 86 firms including State Street, Toyota, Merck, ING, Broadridge and Rabobank joined the collective that is seeking to use blockchain technology to run smart contracts at Fortune 500 companies."
> 
> "JPMorgan Chase, Microsoft, CME Group, BNY Mellon and other large multinationals are already EEA members, having joined when it was established in February 2017.
> 
> In a statement, Julio Faura, chairman of the EEA and head of blockchain innovation at Banco Santander, said, "the enthusiasm around EEA is remarkable".
> 
> He added: "Our new members come from varying industries such as pharma, mobile, banking, automotive, management consulting, and hardware."
> 
> 
> 
> I posted something on these in the investments section, as price is utterly exploding, but got no takers....


Very interesting thanks.


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## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do.  Have for years at this point.  Mined it, bought it, hold it, trade it on exchanges.
> 
> I don't mine bitcoin any longer, however, as it isn't cost effective with the electricity burned costing more than it would to just buy them.
> 
> I mine/hold/trade Ethereum as well. Those miners are still running.
> 
> 
> They both operate on distributed ledger systems, aka blockchain, whereby there's no need for a third party, such as a bank or brokerage, to verify transactions.   They also perform a myriad of other functions, with new apps rolling out continuously.
> 
> Btc is a value store similar to money.  Ethereum operates what are known as smart contracts, which allow various things to be coded into an agreement that no longer needs a clearinghouse or third part. This offers substantial potential savings in financial markets, and has many, many other applications as well in telecomm, pharma, supply chain management etc.
> 
> There are various other "coins" as well that serve one purpose or another.  They are known as "alt-coins" or ""alts".
> 
> This is taking hold on a global level, with multi-conglomerate consortiums being formed working with ethereum, various private blockchain initiatives rolling out etc.  Goverments, such as China, are experimenting with blockchain tech to digitize their currency.  States and municipalities are working in implementing this tech to save money.
> 
> Many companies have formed what is called the ethereum alliance.  Announced a few months ago it continues to grow in size.  The article also discusses how they work.
> 
> Bigger than bitcoin? Enterprise Ethereum Alliance grows in size
> 
> "Corporate support for the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance (EEA) is growing after 86 firms including State Street, Toyota, Merck, ING, Broadridge and Rabobank joined the collective that is seeking to use blockchain technology to run smart contracts at Fortune 500 companies."
> 
> "JPMorgan Chase, Microsoft, CME Group, BNY Mellon and other large multinationals are already EEA members, having joined when it was established in February 2017.
> 
> In a statement, Julio Faura, chairman of the EEA and head of blockchain innovation at Banco Santander, said, "the enthusiasm around EEA is remarkable".
> 
> He added: "Our new members come from varying industries such as pharma, mobile, banking, automotive, management consulting, and hardware."
> 
> 
> 
> I posted something on these in the investments section, as price is utterly exploding, but got no takers....
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting thanks.
Click to expand...



Sure, no problem.  Happy to talk shop.

you can see coindesk.com for crypto news also.

Prices are sky high right now and there are rumblings that a bubble is forming there, which is likely the case.  How high it goes before it plummets, or if it will fall hard, is anyone's guess, of course.  

Markets down a little today off the all time highs of the last week or so, when bitcoin was running at 2700 and Ethereum hit 210, so we're in a correction at a minimum right now.....


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## Fueri

here's another article on Ethereum, put out by NASDAQ

The Rise Of Ethereum


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## Fueri

People are expecting an announcement from China that they're loosening controls on some they exchanges, so that's driving price somewhat, as a lot of investment/market action comes from China.

Bitcoin has been working through scaling issues to speed up transaction times and may have finally resolved it.  That may also be pushing BTC price up.

Ethereum looks like a juggernaut.  It will be a while before that ecosystem takes hold and actually starts to function to the point where the market value is more in keeping with price, so a lot/most of the rise there is due to speculation.

Early tests in commodities markets, however, have been highly favorable.

ING has been running an Ethereum-based oil trading platform that is whipping ass:

More Banks to Sign Up for ING's Ethereum Oil Trading Platform - CoinDesk

"In the live trial, the average time it took for one of the banks to complete its role in the transaction dropped from about three hours using traditional analogue solution to 25 minutes on a distributed ledger. For traders, efficiency increased 33%, according to the company.

With the cost savings as a result of these efficiencies estimated by Mercuria to be as high as 30%, the potential margins available to platform providers is immense."


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## MarathonMike

Something big is going on, that is for sure. It's interesting how little coverage Bitcoin or Ethereum gets in the MSM.


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## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Something big is going on, that is for sure. It's interesting how little coverage Bitcoin or Ethereum gets in the MSM.




yep,right now it is "THE THING".  Globally huge corporations and governments are hopping on in droves.

It's not getting a ton of MSM coverage yet, but that's starting to change.  We're seeing it in financial sites, such as CSNBC, The WSJ, NASDAQ etc.  Right now it's an investment vehicle for some and not something people in general are seeing as part of their daily lives, so they don't know, don't care and the MSM isn't picking it up because most people couldn't care less.  

At some point it will be part of people's daily lives if it keeps on the path it's on and yet some people still may or may not even realize it.

For instance, do people think about what happens when they swipe a credit card in terms of the systems underpinning it?  Do they consider the systems involved in energy distribution, data networks, stock exchanges etc.  For the most part, no.

These are just things humming along in the background that most people pay little, if any, attention to.  These sorts of things will be much the same in those same areas and most people won't even notice a change as, to them, there won't be one.


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## Muhammed

Fueri said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something big is going on, that is for sure. It's interesting how little coverage Bitcoin or Ethereum gets in the MSM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yep,right now it is "THE THING".  Globally huge corporations and governments are hopping on in droves.
> 
> It's not getting a ton of MSM coverage yet, but that's starting to change.  We're seeing it in financial sites, such as CSNBC, The WSJ, NASDAQ etc.  Right now it's an investment vehicle for some and not something people in general are seeing as part of their daily lives, so they don't know, don't care and the MSM isn't picking it up because most people couldn't care less.
> 
> At some point it will be part of people's daily lives if it keeps on the path it's on and yet some people still may or may not even realize it.
> 
> For instance, do people think about what happens when they swipe a credit card in terms of the systems underpinning it?  Do they consider the systems involved in energy distribution, data networks, stock exchanges etc.  For the most part, no.
> 
> These are just things humming along in the background that most people pay little, if any, attention to.  These sorts of things will be much the same in those same areas and most people won't even notice a change as, to them, there won't be one.
Click to expand...

I've heard that it is easier to get cold hard cash from bitcoins than it used to be. They're more liquid. For instance I've heard of companies taking bitcoins for gold and silver bullion.

Is there any truth to that?


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## Fueri

Muhammed said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something big is going on, that is for sure. It's interesting how little coverage Bitcoin or Ethereum gets in the MSM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yep,right now it is "THE THING".  Globally huge corporations and governments are hopping on in droves.
> 
> It's not getting a ton of MSM coverage yet, but that's starting to change.  We're seeing it in financial sites, such as CSNBC, The WSJ, NASDAQ etc.  Right now it's an investment vehicle for some and not something people in general are seeing as part of their daily lives, so they don't know, don't care and the MSM isn't picking it up because most people couldn't care less.
> 
> At some point it will be part of people's daily lives if it keeps on the path it's on and yet some people still may or may not even realize it.
> 
> For instance, do people think about what happens when they swipe a credit card in terms of the systems underpinning it?  Do they consider the systems involved in energy distribution, data networks, stock exchanges etc.  For the most part, no.
> 
> These are just things humming along in the background that most people pay little, if any, attention to.  These sorts of things will be much the same in those same areas and most people won't even notice a change as, to them, there won't be one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've heard that it is easier to get cold hard cash from bitcoins than it used to be. They're more liquid. For instance I've heard of companies taking bitcoins for gold and silver bullion.
> 
> Is there any truth to that?
Click to expand...



yep, much more fungible now.

you can buy and sell directly to and from your bank account via coinbase, or set up an account at one of a number of exchanges and buy and sell with USD there, etc. 

and, yes, you can buy gold, silver, whatever with BTC.  you can also buy VISA giftcards and spend it that way, and right now they're rolling out a debit card you can load with crypto and swipe it just like any other debit card.


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## Fueri

you can buy gold here, among other places.

Home


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## SYTFE

Muhammed said:


> Years ago my employer gave me the option of getting part of my quarterly bonus in bitcoin. Around $10,000. I didn't know jack shit about bitcoin. Never heard of bitcoin. He explained why he invests in bitcoin. I'm a gambling man so I decided to take a gamble. I got lucky as hell. In months that gamble was worth six figures.
> 
> I wouldn't invest in bitcoin again though. My instincts told me to quit while I was ahead and not to play that game again.



What employer would offer a bonus in bitcoin?  That is just bizarre....but good job holding on to that and selling when you thought you should.


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## Muhammed

SYTFE said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Years ago my employer gave me the option of getting part of my quarterly bonus in bitcoin. Around $10,000. I didn't know jack shit about bitcoin. Never heard of bitcoin. He explained why he invests in bitcoin. I'm a gambling man so I decided to take a gamble. I got lucky as hell. In months that gamble was worth six figures.
> 
> I wouldn't invest in bitcoin again though. My instincts told me to quit while I was ahead and not to play that game again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What employer would offer a bonus in bitcoin?  That is just bizarre....but good job holding on to that and selling when you thought you should.
Click to expand...

One who is convinced they will go up in value.

But like I mentioned before, I would not gamble on bitcoins again. I'm smart enough to know when I just got lucky and it had nothing to do with my financial acumen.

It was luck, not skill.


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## MarathonMike

Fueri said:


> Muhammed said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something big is going on, that is for sure. It's interesting how little coverage Bitcoin or Ethereum gets in the MSM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yep,right now it is "THE THING".  Globally huge corporations and governments are hopping on in droves.
> 
> It's not getting a ton of MSM coverage yet, but that's starting to change.  We're seeing it in financial sites, such as CSNBC, The WSJ, NASDAQ etc.  Right now it's an investment vehicle for some and not something people in general are seeing as part of their daily lives, so they don't know, don't care and the MSM isn't picking it up because most people couldn't care less.
> 
> At some point it will be part of people's daily lives if it keeps on the path it's on and yet some people still may or may not even realize it.
> 
> For instance, do people think about what happens when they swipe a credit card in terms of the systems underpinning it?  Do they consider the systems involved in energy distribution, data networks, stock exchanges etc.  For the most part, no.
> 
> These are just things humming along in the background that most people pay little, if any, attention to.  These sorts of things will be much the same in those same areas and most people won't even notice a change as, to them, there won't be one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've heard that it is easier to get cold hard cash from bitcoins than it used to be. They're more liquid. For instance I've heard of companies taking bitcoins for gold and silver bullion.
> 
> Is there any truth to that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yep, much more fungible now.
> 
> you can buy and sell directly to and from your bank account via coinbase, or set up an account at one of a number of exchanges and buy and sell with USD there, etc.
> 
> and, yes, you can buy gold, silver, whatever with BTC.  you can also buy VISA giftcards and spend it that way, and right now they're rolling out a debit card you can load with crypto and swipe it just like any other debit card.
Click to expand...

Ok I've been reading about this all day. I'm convinced this is the real deal. Just created my coinbase account. From what I read, this technology has all sorts of applications even things like electronic voting. Really interesting!


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## Fueri

Price bubbles popped.  Anyone looking for an entry point, this could be it.


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## Fueri

Cnbc analyst chimes in on pricing.

Ethereum, the bitcoin rival that has rallied 2,700%, is headed for a 38% correction, analyst says


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## Fueri

And another, more focused on bitcoin specifically.

Bitcoin is near a level that could start a 47% correction, but some see it headed to $6,000


She's using fibonacci sequences, calling a bottom for bitcoin towards the end of this year...

Right, wrong, who knows, obviously.  

And of course if we see one of the various efforts succeed to get sec approval for btc and ethereum trading, or one of the various intetnational efforts, such as the japanese effort to bring these to the FOREX market, succeeds, those fundamental market shifters will throw these right out the nearest window.

YMMV, of course.


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## Fueri

Ethereum to start trading on Chinese exchanges today.

Price is jumping on that news.  Analysts expect a substantial bump once those exchanges open trading


Given the voracious appetite of the Chinese for bitcoin, I'd agree.   

China is expected also next month to allow loosening of some restrictions it had placed on exchanges in terms of withdrawal of digital currency, as they had been limiting that due to fears of people moving assets out of the country via bitcoin movement....


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## danielpalos

I probably will, when I can establish a petty cash fund for that purpose.


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## Toddsterpatriot

555Patriots777 said:


> I am. Some of my coworkers are starting to wake up as well. Around the world people in the know are trading their fecal covered parchment paper for cryptocurrencies. As fiat currencies lose value, Bitcoin rises. For the second year in a row, forth time in five years Bitcoin is the worlds best performing currency.
> 
> Copy paste the link.
> 
> Bitcoin: Top Performing Currency For a Second Year in a Row



Yes, chainletters do well at the beginning.


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## Luddly Neddite

strollingbones said:


> ah i refused the risk.....we would have had millions or lost it all by now...bitcoins came about due to the silk road which has been closed..they were used for illegal activities and still are...they exist in a digital world only.....and can be taken quickly




Same here. If I were younger and wanted long term returns, I might. But, back then, I did really well with real estate. I have a good friend who partnered with me, still buying and selling and doing well. So that's probably what I'd do again.

But, we're in a good place, good income from past investments so not interested.


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## Fueri

Ethereum topped 320 today on the news that China and Russia are experimenting with digitizing their currencies utilizing the ethereum protocol, among other things.

Russia and China May Digitize Their Currencies With Ethereum


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## MarathonMike

Fueri said:


> Ethereum topped 320 today on the news that China and Russia are experimenting with digitizing their currencies utilizing the ethereum protocol, among other things.
> 
> Russia and China May Digitize Their Currencies With Ethereum


I posted a question for you today. What do you think is behind this surge? Is it the upcoming Bitcoin blockchain split that is driving Bitcoin owners into Ethereum or is it mostly new investors coming in?


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## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethereum topped 320 today on the news that China and Russia are experimenting with digitizing their currencies utilizing the ethereum protocol, among other things.
> 
> Russia and China May Digitize Their Currencies With Ethereum
> 
> 
> 
> I posted a question for you today. What do you think is behind this surge? Is it the upcoming Bitcoin blockchain split that is driving Bitcoin owners into Ethereum or is it mostly new investors coming in?
Click to expand...



Sorry, i didn't see it.

I think some of bitcoins scaling issues, which is driving the hard fork or split is hurting bitcoin.  Transaction fees and processing times are way up, so it's use as a currency is being hampered.

That said, I think most of this is due to an influx of new money moreso than what's going on with bitcoin.  That can be seen by the market caps of cryptos in general, which are skyrocketing across the board, as well as the fact that bitcoins price is also rising.


Here's bitcoins market cap chart.  You'll see its nearly vertical.  

Bitcoin Market Capitalization Chart


People are not fleeing bitcoin, but they are also pouring money into other cryptos, with ethereum being the largest receiver of that influx and already overtaking >50% of bitcoins market cap.

Heres a site listing various coin market caps

CryptoCurrency Market Capitalizations


Here's a chart on total crypto market cap 

Global Charts | CryptoCurrency Market Capitalizations

That ^^^ thing is insane.  Lot of new money pouring in from individuals and institutional investors.  See also the volume along the bottom axis.  That has exploded as well.


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## HenryBHough

Forget bitcoins.

Tulips!

They were as  popular and profitable at one time as are bitcoins today - really overdue for a comeback!


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## MarathonMike

Fueri said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethereum topped 320 today on the news that China and Russia are experimenting with digitizing their currencies utilizing the ethereum protocol, among other things.
> 
> Russia and China May Digitize Their Currencies With Ethereum
> 
> 
> 
> I posted a question for you today. What do you think is behind this surge? Is it the upcoming Bitcoin blockchain split that is driving Bitcoin owners into Ethereum or is it mostly new investors coming in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, i didn't see it.
> 
> I think some of bitcoins scaling issues, which is driving the hard fork or split is hurting bitcoin.  Transaction fees and processing times are way up, so it's use as a currency is being hampered.
> 
> That said, I think most of this is due to an influx of new money moreso than what's going on with bitcoin.  That can be seen by the market caps of cryptos in general, which are skyrocketing across the board, as well as the fact that bitcoins price is also rising.
> 
> 
> Here's bitcoins market cap chart.  You'll see its nearly vertical.
> 
> Bitcoin Market Capitalization Chart
> 
> 
> People are not fleeing bitcoin, but they are also pouring money into other cryptos, with ethereum being the largest receiver of that influx and already overtaking >50% of bitcoins market cap.
> 
> Heres a site listing various coin market caps
> 
> CryptoCurrency Market Capitalizations
> 
> 
> Here's a chart on total crypto market cap
> 
> Global Charts | CryptoCurrency Market Capitalizations
> 
> That ^^^ thing is insane.  Lot of new money pouring in from individuals and institutional investors.  See also the volume along the bottom axis.  That has exploded as well.
Click to expand...


What about Russia and China digitizing their currency using Ethereum as the "backbone"? How likely do you think that is?


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## Fueri

HenryBHough said:


> Forget bitcoins.
> 
> Tulips!
> 
> They as popular and profitable at one time as are bitcoins today - really due for a comeback!




Microsoft, intel, JP Morgan, BP, Samsung, ING, Citi and a host of others, such as the people's bank of china, are investing in these particular tulips.

The price likely is forming a bubble in the overall crypto market, as most people have no clue what they're investing in, but the tech is here to stay.  Very little doubt about that.


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## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethereum topped 320 today on the news that China and Russia are experimenting with digitizing their currencies utilizing the ethereum protocol, among other things.
> 
> Russia and China May Digitize Their Currencies With Ethereum
> 
> 
> 
> I posted a question for you today. What do you think is behind this surge? Is it the upcoming Bitcoin blockchain split that is driving Bitcoin owners into Ethereum or is it mostly new investors coming in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, i didn't see it.
> 
> I think some of bitcoins scaling issues, which is driving the hard fork or split is hurting bitcoin.  Transaction fees and processing times are way up, so it's use as a currency is being hampered.
> 
> That said, I think most of this is due to an influx of new money moreso than what's going on with bitcoin.  That can be seen by the market caps of cryptos in general, which are skyrocketing across the board, as well as the fact that bitcoins price is also rising.
> 
> 
> Here's bitcoins market cap chart.  You'll see its nearly vertical.
> 
> Bitcoin Market Capitalization Chart
> 
> 
> People are not fleeing bitcoin, but they are also pouring money into other cryptos, with ethereum being the largest receiver of that influx and already overtaking >50% of bitcoins market cap.
> 
> Heres a site listing various coin market caps
> 
> CryptoCurrency Market Capitalizations
> 
> 
> Here's a chart on total crypto market cap
> 
> Global Charts | CryptoCurrency Market Capitalizations
> 
> That ^^^ thing is insane.  Lot of new money pouring in from individuals and institutional investors.  See also the volume along the bottom axis.  That has exploded as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What about Russia and China digitizing their currency using Ethereum as the "backbone"? How likely do you think that is?
Click to expand...



I don't know, really.  Hard to say what the likelihood is, but the fact that they're looking at it more than casually is interesting.  People are viewing this in some ways as the next wave in fintech, so some countries are attempting to seize the advantage.


ING recently ran an oil trading desk based on ethereum, which drastically improved speed and cut overall costs by ~30%.  That has nothing to do with the china/Russia currency issue, but it highlights the speed and efficiency that has so many people hopping on this stuff.


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## Fueri

Luddly Neddite said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> ah i refused the risk.....we would have had millions or lost it all by now...bitcoins came about due to the silk road which has been closed..they were used for illegal activities and still are...they exist in a digital world only.....and can be taken quickly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same here. If I were younger and wanted long term returns, I might. But, back then, I did really well with real estate. I have a good friend who partnered with me, still buying and selling and doing well. So that's probably what I'd do again.
> 
> But, we're in a good place, good income from past investments so not interested.
Click to expand...


Long term isn't a requirement.  These markets are up hundreds of times, as in 4x, 5x over the last few months.

Ethereum is up 17% today, and about 500% in the last 60 days or so, something like 3000% this year.  You're set, that's cool too, obviously.  I am absolutely not trying to sell anyone on anything here.

I see this as a watershed moment, like the dot com boom, when the world is shifting in a fundamental way towards these technologies.  I could be totally wrong, of course, but  I'm still in an investment phase in my life, so I'm in....


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## MarathonMike

Fueri said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> ah i refused the risk.....we would have had millions or lost it all by now...bitcoins came about due to the silk road which has been closed..they were used for illegal activities and still are...they exist in a digital world only.....and can be taken quickly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same here. If I were younger and wanted long term returns, I might. But, back then, I did really well with real estate. I have a good friend who partnered with me, still buying and selling and doing well. So that's probably what I'd do again.
> 
> But, we're in a good place, good income from past investments so not interested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Long term isn't a requirement.  These markets are up hundreds of times, as in 4x, 5x over the last few months.
> 
> Ethereum is up 17% today, and about 500% in the last 60 days or so, something like 3000% this year.  You're set, that's cool too, obviously.  I am absolutely not trying to sell anyone on anything here.
> 
> I see this as a watershed moment, like the dot com boom, when the world is shifting in a fundamental way towards these technologies.  I could be totally wrong, of course, but  I'm still in an investment phase in my life, so I'm in....
Click to expand...

At this point I'm treating my investment like casino money. This is so speculative but I agree there are indications that blockchain technology could be a game changer. When you have entities like the Royal Chinese Mint evaluating the technology, this is more than just a play toy or Tulip bulbs.


----------



## Fueri

Price analysis on ethereum for those that may be interested.


ETH/USD Weekly Forecast: Big Week For Ether


----------



## MarathonMike

I guess we'll see. I remember plenty of stock reviews like that back in the pre dot.com bubble days. This is pretty remarkable though, I must say.


----------



## MarathonMike

Just an observation: Average 24 hour trading volume on ETH in US dollars went from ~100 million 2 weeks ago to over 1 billion since then.


----------



## MarathonMike

Fueri, what is the risk to a blockchain getting bogged down with tons of buggy smart contracts being uploaded by noobs like me? What is the risk of a blockchain being hacked, like a smart contract that self replicates itself i.e.


----------



## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri, what is the risk to a blockchain getting bogged down with tons of buggy smart contracts being uploaded by noobs like me? What is the risk of a blockchain being hacked, like a smart contract that self replicates itself i.e.




Scaling is a problem with any blockchain, as can be seen with Bitcoin's scaling problem

There are, however, differences between Bitcoin and Ethereum in the way changes are implemented.

Bitcoin utilized a change protocol whereby any given change has to be adopted by a certain percentage of miners (I think its 75%) before it takes place.  Problem here is that as mining has become more concentrated across a fewer number of large scale mining operations, those people have too much say and in some cases hold so much of the percentage that they have a virtual veto over such changes.  This has caused bitcoin to bog down in terms of doing something about its issue, as consensus is a great concept but in practice it's difficult.

Ethereum is different in that it has no such limitations.  If the core group decides to do it, they do it.  When Ethereum implemented a hard fork they let folks vote, and then went right ahead and did what they wanted to do despite overriding that vote.

And the Ethereum dev team has a plan for scaling.  See here:  Ethereum's Creator Proves Blockchain Scaling Vision is No Joke - CoinDesk


In terms of hacking, the basis of the technology is it's security protocol.  I'm not going to say it's unhackable, because who knows what tech comes out tomorrow that might make it possible, but it's pretty close. The only means I'm aware of is called a 51% attacks which is a situation that could occur if one mining group controlled more than 50% of the hashrate.  this is purely hypothetical and most, if not all, major BTC mining pools have stated they will not deploy enough hashrate to mine >50% for this reason.

It is:

"51% attack refers to an attack on a blockchain – usually bitcoin's, for which such an attack is still hypothetical – by a group of miners controlling more than 50% of the network's mining hashrate, or computing power. The attackers would be able to prevent new transactions from gaining confirmations, allowing them to halt payments between some or all users. They would also be able to reverse transactions that were completed while they were in control of the network, meaning they could double-spend coins."


Read more: 51% Attack | Investopedia 51% Attack 


to brute force a crack it would take an ubelievable amount of time and computing power to yield a single key, much less crack the entire network, which I'm not sure is even possible.

For those calculations on time and power see here   Time and energy required to brute-force a AES-256 encryption key. • r/theydidthemath




the security is quantum leaps beyond what we're using right now and is one element that has people so excited about this from corporations to the Defense Dept. people are jacked up in some cases solely based on the security element.


----------



## danielpalos

I can't establish a petty cash fund for that purpose, at the moment; so, I may wait to see how it, "shakes out".


----------



## MarathonMike

Fueri question please: What is your opinion on the NVO ICO?


----------



## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri question please: What is your opinion on the NVO ICO?




I'm cautious with ICO's in general, although I've made good money on them. 

I think a lot of folks are seeing this ICO model raising millions on very little other than a website and a whitepaper and cranking them out to raise a ton of money without actually having much of a product, so they can be dicey and I'm worried that this space is being flooded by opportunists rather than people developing serious applications that actually merit anywhere near the money I see being poured into them.

my strategy has been to buy then get back my original investment plus a target profit of 50% or so which, over the span of a few months is pretty good, obviously.  If I think the ICO has long-term legs and between investment and the opening of trading on their token they are completing their milestones and they look like they're on track I'll leave some in, if any of that doesn't look right I'll cash out totally back to bitcoin.  

In a general sense I've used them to grow my bitcoin/ethereum numbers, but haven't left a lot in them for the long term.

I have never lost money on one of these, although in a general sense I think these ico's are a gamble, as their valuations post ico make no sense from a balance sheet perspective and will have to crash to earth at some point.  

see this bloomberg article on these.

These Digital Tokens Are Making Bitcoin's Huge Rally Look Tame


In terms of NVO specifically I don't know any more than what I've read in the white paper.  I like the idea of a decentralized exchange and think it fits the space well.  What I don't like is the team, which seems thin at 2 guys without much of a track record.

I may buy a small amount ~.25btc worth, which I would put through my typical regimen of pulling out my original investment back to btc with some profit as soon as trading opens on them on one of the exchanges, and keeping a close eye on what they'e actually doing rather than what they promise to be doing.


you can see other ICO offerings here:

Token Investor | Crypto Coins, Tokens, and Validator Keys


----------



## MarathonMike

Fueri said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri question please: What is your opinion on the NVO ICO?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm cautious with ICO's in general, although I've made good money on them.
> 
> I think a lot of folks are seeing this ICO model raising millions on very little other than a website and a whitepaper and cranking them out to raise a ton of money without actually having much of a product, so they can be dicey and I'm worried that this space is being flooded by opportunists rather than people developing serious applications that actually merit anywhere near the money I see being poured into them.
> 
> my strategy has been to buy then get back my original investment plus a target profit of 50% or so which, over the span of a few months is pretty good, obviously.  If I think the ICO has long-term legs and between investment and the opening of trading on their token they are completing their milestones and they look like they're on track I'll leave some in, if any of that doesn't look right I'll cash out totally back to bitcoin.
> 
> In a general sense I've used them to grow my bitcoin/ethereum numbers, but haven't left a lot in them for the long term.
> 
> I have never lost money on one of these, although in a general sense I think these ico's are a gamble, as their valuations post ico make no sense from a balance sheet perspective and will have to crash to earth at some point.
> 
> see this bloomberg article on these.
> 
> These Digital Tokens Are Making Bitcoin's Huge Rally Look Tame
> 
> 
> In terms of NVO specifically I don't know any more than what I've read in the white paper.  I like the idea of a decentralized exchange and think it fits the space well.  What I don't like is the team, which seems thin at 2 guys without much of a track record.
> 
> I may buy a small amount ~.25btc worth, which I would put through my typical regimen of pulling out my original investment back to btc with some profit as soon as trading opens on them on one of the exchanges, and keeping a close eye on what they'e actually doing rather than what they promise to be doing.
> 
> 
> you can see other ICO offerings here:
> 
> Token Investor | Crypto Coins, Tokens, and Validator Keys
Click to expand...


Great info thanks. That was my sense in reading about NVO seeming like a good opportunity for a short term gain but a real long shot for anything beyond that.


----------



## MarathonMike

Fueri said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri question please: What is your opinion on the NVO ICO?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm cautious with ICO's in general, although I've made good money on them.
> 
> I think a lot of folks are seeing this ICO model raising millions on very little other than a website and a whitepaper and cranking them out to raise a ton of money without actually having much of a product, so they can be dicey and I'm worried that this space is being flooded by opportunists rather than people developing serious applications that actually merit anywhere near the money I see being poured into them.
> 
> my strategy has been to buy then get back my original investment plus a target profit of 50% or so which, over the span of a few months is pretty good, obviously.  If I think the ICO has long-term legs and between investment and the opening of trading on their token they are completing their milestones and they look like they're on track I'll leave some in, if any of that doesn't look right I'll cash out totally back to bitcoin.
> 
> In a general sense I've used them to grow my bitcoin/ethereum numbers, but haven't left a lot in them for the long term.
> 
> I have never lost money on one of these, although in a general sense I think these ico's are a gamble, as their valuations post ico make no sense from a balance sheet perspective and will have to crash to earth at some point.
> 
> see this bloomberg article on these.
> 
> These Digital Tokens Are Making Bitcoin's Huge Rally Look Tame
> 
> 
> In terms of NVO specifically I don't know any more than what I've read in the white paper.  I like the idea of a decentralized exchange and think it fits the space well.  What I don't like is the team, which seems thin at 2 guys without much of a track record.
> 
> I may buy a small amount ~.25btc worth, which I would put through my typical regimen of pulling out my original investment back to btc with some profit as soon as trading opens on them on one of the exchanges, and keeping a close eye on what they'e actually doing rather than what they promise to be doing.
> 
> 
> you can see other ICO offerings here:
> 
> Token Investor | Crypto Coins, Tokens, and Validator Keys
Click to expand...

Took my first profit in ETH today. I don't like the volume action. I may have jumped off a rocket ship, (wouldn't be the first time) but like the great man once said, nobody ever went broke making money on a trade.


----------



## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri question please: What is your opinion on the NVO ICO?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm cautious with ICO's in general, although I've made good money on them.
> 
> I think a lot of folks are seeing this ICO model raising millions on very little other than a website and a whitepaper and cranking them out to raise a ton of money without actually having much of a product, so they can be dicey and I'm worried that this space is being flooded by opportunists rather than people developing serious applications that actually merit anywhere near the money I see being poured into them.
> 
> my strategy has been to buy then get back my original investment plus a target profit of 50% or so which, over the span of a few months is pretty good, obviously.  If I think the ICO has long-term legs and between investment and the opening of trading on their token they are completing their milestones and they look like they're on track I'll leave some in, if any of that doesn't look right I'll cash out totally back to bitcoin.
> 
> In a general sense I've used them to grow my bitcoin/ethereum numbers, but haven't left a lot in them for the long term.
> 
> I have never lost money on one of these, although in a general sense I think these ico's are a gamble, as their valuations post ico make no sense from a balance sheet perspective and will have to crash to earth at some point.
> 
> see this bloomberg article on these.
> 
> These Digital Tokens Are Making Bitcoin's Huge Rally Look Tame
> 
> 
> In terms of NVO specifically I don't know any more than what I've read in the white paper.  I like the idea of a decentralized exchange and think it fits the space well.  What I don't like is the team, which seems thin at 2 guys without much of a track record.
> 
> I may buy a small amount ~.25btc worth, which I would put through my typical regimen of pulling out my original investment back to btc with some profit as soon as trading opens on them on one of the exchanges, and keeping a close eye on what they'e actually doing rather than what they promise to be doing.
> 
> 
> you can see other ICO offerings here:
> 
> Token Investor | Crypto Coins, Tokens, and Validator Keys
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Took my first profit in ETH today. I don't like the volume action. I may have jumped off a rocket ship, (wouldn't be the first time) but like the great man once said, nobody ever went broke making money on a trade.
Click to expand...



I don't blame you.  I'm still in and actually bought some yesterday when it tanked.  I think bitcoin is likely to fall here again over the next couple of months as there's a hard fork coming august 1 (I think) and that normally spells trouble for the pricing, at least temporarily.  I'll be buying then if that does occur, as it's projected to sail up to the 4000 level by the end of next year.

It did fall hard yesterday, but it was expected, and came back pretty well.  bumping against that 360 level without successfully breaking it today.

it settled right back on the trend line after correcting, basically cutting off a price bubble, so I'm not particularly worried about it.  after an episode like yesterday it will take the market a few days to shake things out, and i wouldn't be surprised if it goes sideways for a while or even pulls back into the 300 region.  then again, this is crypto, so a big news event or something that rings the bell to turn the bulls loose could drive it up 50-100 in a day.  happens all the time.

I am glad you made some money, definitely.  literally none of my close friends listened to me on this when it was sitting at 12 and the ethereum alliance formed up and I was telling them to load up.  not a single one so you are literally the only person I know of personally besides myself that actually went out and made some money on this.  lol


----------



## Toro

Nobody "invests" in Bitcoin.


----------



## Fueri

Toro said:


> Nobody "invests" in Bitcoin.



It has a 40 billion+ market cap.

A lot of people invest in bitcoin


----------



## percysunshine

Invest in land.

Bitcoin can evaporate if someone turns off the electricity.


----------



## Fueri

This guy does

Billionaire says he has 10% of his money in Bitcoin, Ether and Blockchain tech


Investing Guide
*Billionaire says he has 10% of his money in Bitcoin and Ether*

*"Ten percent of my net worth is in this space," Novogratz said at a forum held at the Harvard Business School Club of New York Wednesday. He declined to say exactly how wealthy he is, but he's a former hedge fund manager at Fortress Investment Group and a Goldman Sachs partner who made the Forbes billionaire list in 2008.


It's the "best investment of my life," Novogratz said. 
*


----------



## MarathonMike

Fueri I read that Amazon was considering accepting BC for payment but did not adopt it. Do you think it is feasible that Amazon could make their own coin? They seem to be getting into just about everything so it would seem logical they would want to have their own currency. What do you think, would they do it? If so how might that affect BC and ETH?


----------



## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri I read that Amazon was considering accepting BC for payment but did not adopt it. Do you think it is feasible that Amazon could make their own coin? They seem to be getting into just about everything so it would seem logical they would want to have their own currency. What do you think, would they do it? If so how might that affect BC and ETH?




They could, anyone could I suppose.

It would have to have an advantage of some kind over btc and/or eth or I doubt it would impact either very much.  Apple's apple pay, for instance, has had little, if any, impact.  When that came out wonks started delivering last rites on bitcoin and cryptos in general, declaring the big dogs were taking over.  That obviously didn't happen.

Bitcoin has first mover status as a currency.  Ethereum has first mover status in smart contracts and a growing consortium of global conglomerates to move it that dwarfs even amazon.

That said, it would likely take off price wise, at least for a while and, who knows, there's always the possibility for a better mousetrap, but it actually has to be a better mousetrap in practice, imo, not just a mousetrap with an Amazon, or whoever's, logo stamped on it.

This, imo, is why ethereum is taking off.  It is fundamentally different from bitcoin and serves a need bitcoin does not in the execution of smart contracts rather than simply being a transfer/store of value.

We see that also with some of the others that have done well.  They do things others don't and carve out a niche.  Dash advertises rapid processing speed, Zcash and Monero advertise anonymity and/or untraceability, etc.


----------



## MarathonMike

Fueri, what is your take on the trading issues at Coinbase? I read that a multi-million dollar sale triggered a bunch of stop loss orders that led to the halt in trading and an enormous flash drop and then rebound in the price of ETH. It seems like they will have to put some sort of order limit until the market cap grows enough to withstand the whales.


----------



## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri, what is your take on the trading issues at Coinbase? I read that a multi-million dollar sale triggered a bunch of stop loss orders that led to the halt in trading and an enormous flash drop and then rebound in the price of ETH. It seems like they will have to put some sort of order limit until the market cap grows enough to withstand the whales.




Yeah, I saw that.

This is one of three things, IMO, although Coinbase/GDAX says it is investigating and will issue a statement at some point.  Of course, I'm speculating, as I don't really know what happened any more than anyone else. 

1.  A whale cashed out.  Apparently an order for tens of millions was put in the order book on the GDAX exchange.  It must have been a market order rather than a limit order (I am assuming here), as it ate the entire order book down to pennies/ETH and dragged the entire market average across all exchanges down with it.

2.  An ICO took the ETH paid into their fund and dumped it.  We've seen this before with ICO"s, as they suck up tens of millions and then dump a ton back into the market to diversify risk for themselves.  Again, it was likely a market order and would have had the same effect as a whale cashing out.

3.  This was a bot generated, or some other means of outright manipulation.  Similar to what we saw in 2010 with the greater market flash crash, someone has figured out how to manipulate other bots into cratering the market, or to manipulate price in some way.

1 and 2, or some variation whereby someone just decided to dump huge volume, I could care less about.  It's typical market action and if someone wants to be dumb enough to dump that kind of volume at less than actual market value (apparently it ate the order book @GDAX down to 0.10/ETH or something, rather than the then-market price of 300+) that's their business.  The market will, and already has, shaken that off.  I am somewhat skeptical that this was the case, however, as someone with 30+ Million in any asset knows better than to dump it for far, far less than it's worth. 

3, on the other hand, presents a problem, as if we start seeing this sort of manipulation it will crash prices across the crypto space.  The exchanges will have to address that or it will kill margin trading, and prices with it.  A trader would have to be utterly insane to get into a leveraged position knowing that someone with enough cash and a malicious bot could wipe him out entirely at any point.  I am sure that this is having an effect on the market now actually.  I don't trade on GDAX,, but I've stopped margin trading on the heels of this and do not intend to re-open any sort of positions until we hear from the markets on this issue, and what they plan to do about it.

So, in a nutshell, I think it's damping prices in the short term, as I highly doubt I'm the only one that's pulled their chips off the table.  The exchanges will have to look into this and implement something to prevent bot manipulation from occurring or trading on these exchanges on any sort of margin is a fool's game.



here's a comment on Reddit, from someone claiming to be a GDAX margin trader on what happened and his take on it.

Open letter from someone who got wiped today (and why I still <3 GDAX) • r/ethtrader


----------



## MarathonMike

Confidence is everything. Changes have to be made and soon to these crypto exchanges. I didn't realize ETH's price actually crashed to 10 CENTS, albeit very briefly and then shot back up to over 300 dollars. The reddit post was very informative. That is a classic example of a very smart guy outsmarting himself. Circuit breakers may have to be implemented just like they exist on the stock exchanges. Perhaps even limiting the maximum order amount so that a big boy can't cannonball all the water out of the pool. If you did that,  even if he/she split up the mega order into a bunch of smaller ones that would give traders time to react.


----------



## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Confidence is everything. Changes have to be made and soon to these crypto exchanges. I didn't realize ETH's price actually crashed to 10 CENTS, albeit very briefly and then shot back up to over 300 dollars. The reddit post was very informative. That is a classic example of a very smart guy outsmarting himself. Circuit breakers may have to be implemented just like they exist on the stock exchanges. Perhaps even limiting the maximum order amount so that a big boy can't cannonball all the water out of the pool. If you did that,  even if he/she split up the mega order into a bunch of smaller ones that would give traders time to react.




yes, it hit .10 on that one exchange.  that dragged down the overall aggregate average, bots and panic selling kicked in and the average price hit a low of ~300 before rebounding.

I agree, the exchanges will have to do something about this.  

One event is bad, but the market rebounded.  If it happens again, folks will dump, myself included, as the price is headed for the basement if that sort of thing becomes a constant imminent threat to market action at any given time.


----------



## Fueri

The exchange is apparently going to reimburse some traders

ETH-USD Trading Update #2 – The GDAX Blog

"We will establish a process to credit customer accounts which experienced a margin call or stop loss order executed on the GDAX ETH-USD order book as a direct result of the rapid price movement at 12.30pm PT on June 21, 2017. This process will allow affected customers to restore the value of their ETH-USD account to the equivalent value of their ETH-USD account at the moment prior to the rapid price movement. To clarify:


For customers who had buy orders filled — we are honoring all executed orders and no trades will be reversed.
For affected customers who had margin calls or stop loss orders executed — we are crediting you using company funds."


----------



## MarathonMike

Fueri, have you thought about what a re-entry point might be? Will it be price based or are you going to wait until definitive measures are in place to safeguard a more orderly market? In the posted write up I saw yesterday about the flash crash, the author stated another flash crash "will happen again". Not exactly the warm fuzzy!
For me, there is enough upside potential to start buying back in if ETH drops to the $250 level.


----------



## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri, have you thought about what a re-entry point might be? Will it be price based or are you going to wait until definitive measures are in place to safeguard a more orderly market? In the posted write up I saw yesterday about the flash crash, the author stated another flash crash "will happen again". Not exactly the warm fuzzy!
> For me, there is enough upside potential to start buying back in if ETH drops to the $250 level.





Well, in terms of margin trading I won't do anything until the exchanges figure this out.  

In terms of a buy in point, the whole crypto market is in a correction.

If it slips below 300 on the daily close its likely to fall further.

support levels are:

287
266
247
231

Without advising one way or another, I've seen some analysts calling for a further fall to 80, while others don't expect it to fall much further than the above, if that far.

I'm not buying personally either way, as ive got a ton already, but what I'm looking for is some solid progress in terms of actual market usage, such as broader adoption of the oil trading platform piloted by ING, or other big news that highlights the utility rather than the promise of utility.  

We'll see it, I think, but in terms of when that could be a year or two or three to move large organizations to a new methodology.

That means, to me, that the price action is primarily speculative at this point, so investors need to see some food on their plate before the big money comes back to drive it past 400 again.


----------



## BuckToothMoron

MarathonMike said:


> I haven't looked into it, but I just saw that bitcoins are now worth more than an ounce of gold. If anyone owns them or understands how this "currency" works, please explain.



It's really fascinating, I'm no expert by any means, but essential it is a currency that is produced through computers running a software program. The software is written such that the more bitcoins produced or "mined" the longer it takes and more expensive it becomes to mine a bitcoin. It is similar to mining gold in that gold was initially found laying on the earth's surface, but now most is found far underground. There is a predetermined quantity of bitcoins that can ever be mined, 21 million,  or at least that was the original idea. There has been recent noise to split bitcoins which really disrupts the valuation as a store of value.

Here is a great YouTube video which might help you understand the pitfalls of "investing" in bitcoin.


----------



## Mac1958

Bitcoin is a weird mix of currency and commodity.

Some people have made a lot of money, but no thanks.
.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Mac1958 said:


> Bitcoin is a weird mix of currency and commodity.
> 
> Some people have made a lot of money, but no thanks.
> .



Chain letter.....what could go wrong?


----------



## Fueri

Goldman-Sachs informational presentation on blockchain tech.

"A new technology is redefining the way we transact. If that sounds incredibly far-reaching, that's because it is."

Blockchain: The New Technology of Trust


----------



## Fueri

For those that are still interested....

Bitcoin sitting @ just over 4k right now on implementation of segwit  scaling solution.  Tech analysts expect a pullback to 3600 then a bounce

Buy Bitcoin at $3,600 Floor: CNBC

Bitcoin will see trading begin on the CBOE later this year also.



Ethereum is also updating it's code end of September and is up 10% on that news, now sitting @ 320 or so, after running sideways for some time.   Price targets there are 500+ over the next 90 days or so.


In terms of broader developments for ethereum, see this article.  Worth a couple of minutes.....

https://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/what-i-learned-at-the-ethereum-conference/8837


----------



## Sunni Man

Digital ponzi scheme based nothing fungible.   .....


----------



## Fueri

Sunni Man said:


> Digital ponzi scheme based nothing fungible.   .....




that's one point of view.  and I'm sure a lot of people would agree.

but the 150+ companies that comprise the Enterprise Etherium Alliance, such as Microsoft, Intel, BP, JP Morgan, Cisco and others would likely disagree with that point of view.

Members - Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

Something very big is happening here that has broad based implications across major market sectors

Whether or not one person thinks so or takes the time to investigate it is up to them I suppose....


----------



## 52ndStreet

I heard Bitcoin was a big pyramid scheme Scam.1 and that they can crash at any moment.


----------



## Fueri

52ndStreet said:


> I heard Bitcoin was a big pyramid scheme Scam.1 and that they can crash at any moment.




me too.  been hearing it since I was buying it @ 300.00 and mining the hell out of it for years.  heard all sorts of crazy crap about it, 99.9% of which was utter nonsense.  My friends been laughing at me for years, so nothing anyone says bothers me at this point.  I've heard it all.

and yes, it does have high volatility, so we can see some pretty good price swings.  

price crashes do occur, however, each and every time thus far the price has recovered to a new all time high.

Price crashes = Buying opportunities.

it's up over 4K and likely heading for 5K and beyond, according to Wall St. analysts.

Wall St. is well beyond the point of waking up and is looking for a way in to list it, which will happen beginning this fall on the CBOE, so I'll hang onto mine.




Ethereum is a different animal altogether.  That is no pyramid scheme.  That is an absolute monster in the making, IMO.


----------



## Fueri

Fueri said:


> For those that are still interested....
> 
> Bitcoin sitting @ just over 4k right now on implementation of segwit  scaling solution.  Tech analysts expect a pullback to 3600 then a bounce
> 
> Buy Bitcoin at $3,600 Floor: CNBC
> 
> Bitcoin will see trading begin on the CBOE later this year also.
> 
> 
> 
> Ethereum is also updating it's code end of September and is up 10% on that news, now sitting @ 320 or so, after running sideways for some time.   Price targets there are 500+ over the next 90 days or so.
> 
> 
> In terms of broader developments for ethereum, see this article.  Worth a couple of minutes.....
> 
> What I Learned at the Ethereum Conference





replying to my own post here because it did pullback almost exactly to that 3600 level and then turned around and is headed back up....


----------



## Fueri

Mark Cuban, a former huge Bitcoin skeptic is hoppin' on the train.  And he's right as rain when when he indicates that blockchain will be used in many markets in the not too distant future.  That's Ethereum and other blockchain techs that go beyond just a transfer of value he's talking about there, whether he knows it or not....

Mark Cuban backs new $20 million cryptocurrency venture fund

"



Mark Cuban backs new $20 million cryptocurrency venture fund  23 Hours Ago | 00:57
Onetime bitcoin skeptic Mark Cuban is warming to the digital currency world.

The billionaire is backing a new venture capital fund for cryptocurrency-related investments called 1confirmation. Founded by Nick Tomaino, former business development manager at Coinbase, the fund plans to raise $20 million, according to a Monday filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

"It's an interesting space that I [want] to get involved with and learn more" about, Cuban said in an email to CNBC Tuesday. He did not specify the size of his investment.


Cuban's opinion on digital currencies has changed fairly recently. In an Aug. 14 tweet, the Dallas Mavericks owner admitted he "might have to finally buy some" bitcoin, contrasting with a June tweet that said he thought bitcoin was in a "bubble."

"Bias should be up because of finite supply. Until crypto or US politics intrude, and they will," he added in another tweet on Aug. 14.

 Follow


Mark Cuban 

✔@mcuban
I might have to rewrite all these replacing stocks with $btc. Might have to finally buy some http://blogmaverick.com/2008/09/08/talking-stocks-and-money/ …

4:53 PM - Aug 14, 2017
 Follow


Mark Cuban 

✔@mcuban
Yes. It goes up,It goes down based on demand. Bias should be up because of finite supply. Until crypto or US politics intrude, and they will https://twitter.com/andrewnolan2/status/897214851759693824 …

5:05 PM - Aug 14, 2017




In late June, Cuban said he planned to participate in an initial coin offering by Unikrn, an online esports betting site in which he holds a stake.

Earlier that month, Cuban tweeted that he didn't know when or by how much the price of bitcoin, which has soared in value this year, would correct. *He did acknowledge then that the blockchain technology backing bitcoin had value and that it "will be at the core of most transactions in the future. Healthcare, finance etc all will use it."*

IBM announced Tuesday that it will work with major food companies such as Wal-Mart, Unilever, Tyson Foods, Dole and Kroger to "identify new areas where the global supply chain can benefit from blockchain."

However, bitcoin's surge and a rush of funds into initial coin offerings have attracted more investment attention.

Bitcoin has quadrupled in value this year and hit a record last Thursday of $4,522.13 with a market capitalization of about $74 billion, according to CoinDesk. Initial coin offerings, which are fundraising events used by cryptocurrency-related start-ups, have raised $1.37 billion so far this year, CoinDesk data showed.

"


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## Toddsterpatriot

Blockchain is useful, bitcoin is a bubble.


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## Fueri

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Blockchain is useful, bitcoin is a bubble.




blockchain is very useful yes.

Bitcoin may be in a bubble. It very definitely was in a bubble in 2013, which popped of course.  Whether or not it is a second bubble right now I think is questionable.  Obviously I doubt it or I'd be dumping mine.

But, yes, you could be right.  We could be entering a second bubble for bitcoin.  I doubt that we are anywhere near the actual peak of the bubble if it is a bubble, as the doors are only just now starting to swing open for the big institutional money, which is why I'm holding mine.

BTC could totally crash, and while that would suck for me, (and, FTR, I doubt it does and stays down), most of my investment portfolio in this space was moved from BTC to Ethereum several months ago when I saw that the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance forming.

I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.  I still hold it and trade it, but I haven't paid cash for bitcoin in years.  That said, I'd buy BTC before I'd buy a conventional stock right now.  The returns are ridiculous.  I've got my 401K for those staid and true investments.  This is the fun high risk/high return potential stuff...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Fueri said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blockchain is useful, bitcoin is a bubble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blockchain is very useful yes.
> 
> Bitcoin may be in a bubble. It very definitely was in a bubble in 2013, which popped of course.  Whether or not it is a second bubble right now I think is questionable.  Obviously I doubt it or I'd be dumping mine.
> 
> But, yes, you could be right.  We could be entering a second bubble for bitcoin.  I doubt that we are anywhere near the actual peak of the bubble if it is a bubble, as the doors are only just now starting to swing open for the big institutional money, which is why I'm holding mine.
> 
> BTC could totally crash, and while that would suck for me, (and, FTR, I doubt it does and stays down), most of my investment portfolio in this space was moved from BTC to Ethereum several months ago when I saw that the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance forming.
> 
> I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.  I still hold it and trade it, but I haven't paid cash for bitcoin in years.  That said, I'd buy BTC before I'd buy a conventional stock right now.  The returns are ridiculous.  I've got my 401K for those staid and true investments.  This is the fun high risk/high return potential stuff...
Click to expand...


*I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.*

Buying a currency for a "return" rather than to use it as a currency is why it's a bubble, not a currency.


----------



## Fueri

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blockchain is useful, bitcoin is a bubble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blockchain is very useful yes.
> 
> Bitcoin may be in a bubble. It very definitely was in a bubble in 2013, which popped of course.  Whether or not it is a second bubble right now I think is questionable.  Obviously I doubt it or I'd be dumping mine.
> 
> But, yes, you could be right.  We could be entering a second bubble for bitcoin.  I doubt that we are anywhere near the actual peak of the bubble if it is a bubble, as the doors are only just now starting to swing open for the big institutional money, which is why I'm holding mine.
> 
> BTC could totally crash, and while that would suck for me, (and, FTR, I doubt it does and stays down), most of my investment portfolio in this space was moved from BTC to Ethereum several months ago when I saw that the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance forming.
> 
> I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.  I still hold it and trade it, but I haven't paid cash for bitcoin in years.  That said, I'd buy BTC before I'd buy a conventional stock right now.  The returns are ridiculous.  I've got my 401K for those staid and true investments.  This is the fun high risk/high return potential stuff...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.*
> 
> Buying a currency for a "return" rather than to use it as a currency is why it's a bubble, not a currency.
Click to expand...


Ethereum is not a currency.  Was never meant to be one.  Has completely different uses.

it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is.


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## Toddsterpatriot

Fueri said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blockchain is useful, bitcoin is a bubble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blockchain is very useful yes.
> 
> Bitcoin may be in a bubble. It very definitely was in a bubble in 2013, which popped of course.  Whether or not it is a second bubble right now I think is questionable.  Obviously I doubt it or I'd be dumping mine.
> 
> But, yes, you could be right.  We could be entering a second bubble for bitcoin.  I doubt that we are anywhere near the actual peak of the bubble if it is a bubble, as the doors are only just now starting to swing open for the big institutional money, which is why I'm holding mine.
> 
> BTC could totally crash, and while that would suck for me, (and, FTR, I doubt it does and stays down), most of my investment portfolio in this space was moved from BTC to Ethereum several months ago when I saw that the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance forming.
> 
> I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.  I still hold it and trade it, but I haven't paid cash for bitcoin in years.  That said, I'd buy BTC before I'd buy a conventional stock right now.  The returns are ridiculous.  I've got my 401K for those staid and true investments.  This is the fun high risk/high return potential stuff...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.*
> 
> Buying a currency for a "return" rather than to use it as a currency is why it's a bubble, not a currency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethereum is not a currency.  Was never meant to be one.  Has completely different uses.
> 
> it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is.
Click to expand...

*
Ethereum is not a currency.* 






Ethereum Price - CoinDesk

Sure.


----------



## Fueri

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blockchain is useful, bitcoin is a bubble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blockchain is very useful yes.
> 
> Bitcoin may be in a bubble. It very definitely was in a bubble in 2013, which popped of course.  Whether or not it is a second bubble right now I think is questionable.  Obviously I doubt it or I'd be dumping mine.
> 
> But, yes, you could be right.  We could be entering a second bubble for bitcoin.  I doubt that we are anywhere near the actual peak of the bubble if it is a bubble, as the doors are only just now starting to swing open for the big institutional money, which is why I'm holding mine.
> 
> BTC could totally crash, and while that would suck for me, (and, FTR, I doubt it does and stays down), most of my investment portfolio in this space was moved from BTC to Ethereum several months ago when I saw that the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance forming.
> 
> I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.  I still hold it and trade it, but I haven't paid cash for bitcoin in years.  That said, I'd buy BTC before I'd buy a conventional stock right now.  The returns are ridiculous.  I've got my 401K for those staid and true investments.  This is the fun high risk/high return potential stuff...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.*
> 
> Buying a currency for a "return" rather than to use it as a currency is why it's a bubble, not a currency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethereum is not a currency.  Was never meant to be one.  Has completely different uses.
> 
> it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> Ethereum is not a currency.*
> 
> View attachment 145630
> 
> Ethereum Price - CoinDesk
> 
> Sure.
Click to expand...



and that proves what exactly, that it has a price? 

Given that I've discussed the price of ethereum several times in this thread, which is about investing, I think we can conclude that I was aware, as are most people, that there is a price per token.

as I've already stated, although for some odd reason you chose not to bold and pull that part of my post: "it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is."

a simple google for 'what is ethereum' will give you more information.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Fueri said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blockchain is useful, bitcoin is a bubble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blockchain is very useful yes.
> 
> Bitcoin may be in a bubble. It very definitely was in a bubble in 2013, which popped of course.  Whether or not it is a second bubble right now I think is questionable.  Obviously I doubt it or I'd be dumping mine.
> 
> But, yes, you could be right.  We could be entering a second bubble for bitcoin.  I doubt that we are anywhere near the actual peak of the bubble if it is a bubble, as the doors are only just now starting to swing open for the big institutional money, which is why I'm holding mine.
> 
> BTC could totally crash, and while that would suck for me, (and, FTR, I doubt it does and stays down), most of my investment portfolio in this space was moved from BTC to Ethereum several months ago when I saw that the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance forming.
> 
> I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.  I still hold it and trade it, but I haven't paid cash for bitcoin in years.  That said, I'd buy BTC before I'd buy a conventional stock right now.  The returns are ridiculous.  I've got my 401K for those staid and true investments.  This is the fun high risk/high return potential stuff...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.*
> 
> Buying a currency for a "return" rather than to use it as a currency is why it's a bubble, not a currency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethereum is not a currency.  Was never meant to be one.  Has completely different uses.
> 
> it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> Ethereum is not a currency.*
> 
> View attachment 145630
> 
> Ethereum Price - CoinDesk
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> and that proves what exactly, that it has a price?
> 
> Given that I've discussed the price of ethereum several times in this thread, which is about investing, I think we can conclude that I was aware, as are most people, that there is a price per token.
> 
> as I've already stated, although for some odd reason you chose not to bold and pull that part of my post: "it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is."
> 
> a simple google for 'what is ethereum' will give you more information.
Click to expand...



*Given that I've discussed the price of ethereum several times in this thread, which is about investing,*

Investing, not speculation? Do you think there is a difference?


----------



## Fueri

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> blockchain is very useful yes.
> 
> Bitcoin may be in a bubble. It very definitely was in a bubble in 2013, which popped of course.  Whether or not it is a second bubble right now I think is questionable.  Obviously I doubt it or I'd be dumping mine.
> 
> But, yes, you could be right.  We could be entering a second bubble for bitcoin.  I doubt that we are anywhere near the actual peak of the bubble if it is a bubble, as the doors are only just now starting to swing open for the big institutional money, which is why I'm holding mine.
> 
> BTC could totally crash, and while that would suck for me, (and, FTR, I doubt it does and stays down), most of my investment portfolio in this space was moved from BTC to Ethereum several months ago when I saw that the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance forming.
> 
> I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.  I still hold it and trade it, but I haven't paid cash for bitcoin in years.  That said, I'd buy BTC before I'd buy a conventional stock right now.  The returns are ridiculous.  I've got my 401K for those staid and true investments.  This is the fun high risk/high return potential stuff...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.*
> 
> Buying a currency for a "return" rather than to use it as a currency is why it's a bubble, not a currency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ethereum is not a currency.  Was never meant to be one.  Has completely different uses.
> 
> it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> Ethereum is not a currency.*
> 
> View attachment 145630
> 
> Ethereum Price - CoinDesk
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> and that proves what exactly, that it has a price?
> 
> Given that I've discussed the price of ethereum several times in this thread, which is about investing, I think we can conclude that I was aware, as are most people, that there is a price per token.
> 
> as I've already stated, although for some odd reason you chose not to bold and pull that part of my post: "it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is."
> 
> a simple google for 'what is ethereum' will give you more information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Given that I've discussed the price of ethereum several times in this thread, which is about investing,*
> 
> Investing, not speculation? Do you think there is a difference?
Click to expand...



Sure there is.  As a lot of people are coming to realize, yourself included, blockchain has value.  At this point in time the primary means of investing in that future technology for most people is via vehicles such as Ethereum which will use this technology for various real world purposes.

now we could say "aha!, but this is very risky, and therefore speculation"  to which I will make 2 points.

1.  I've been clear that this is my high risk portion of my overall investments.  So call it speculation if you want.  Personally either tag (investment or speculation) is fine with me, unless you really to split hairs about it for whatever reason.

2.  This particular investment is also being made by members of the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance, which is comprised of 150+ member companies contributing their resources to this technology.  As I've pointed out previously here, that group is comprised of some pretty big dogs.  BP, Cisco, Intel, Microsoft, JP Morgan, Mastercard and many, many others.

Members - Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

We could say they are speculating too, I suppose, but how they've assessed their risk/return calculations as relating to this I don't know.  What I do know is that for myself as an investor that backing has greatly impacted my assessment of the potential risk as related to Ethereum specifically, relative to some other cryptos which bring nothing new to the party and have no such backing.  So, while I can see how some people can point to a lot of these others (commonly referred as shitcoins) and slap the speculative tab on them (and rightly so), my assessment of the risk here is well within limits I'm comfortable with. 

Point being, there are various levels of risk even within the crypto space and, IMO, this is one of the safer bets out there at the moment.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Fueri said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm not buying BTC at this point as I think Ethereum and other cryptos have a higher % return potential.*
> 
> Buying a currency for a "return" rather than to use it as a currency is why it's a bubble, not a currency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethereum is not a currency.  Was never meant to be one.  Has completely different uses.
> 
> it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> Ethereum is not a currency.*
> 
> View attachment 145630
> 
> Ethereum Price - CoinDesk
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> and that proves what exactly, that it has a price?
> 
> Given that I've discussed the price of ethereum several times in this thread, which is about investing, I think we can conclude that I was aware, as are most people, that there is a price per token.
> 
> as I've already stated, although for some odd reason you chose not to bold and pull that part of my post: "it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is."
> 
> a simple google for 'what is ethereum' will give you more information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Given that I've discussed the price of ethereum several times in this thread, which is about investing,*
> 
> Investing, not speculation? Do you think there is a difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is.  As a lot of people are coming to realize, yourself included, blockchain has value.  At this point in time the primary means of investing in that future technology for most people is via vehicles such as Ethereum which will use this technology for various real world purposes.
> 
> now we could say "aha!, but this is very risky, and therefore speculation"  to which I will make 2 points.
> 
> 1.  I've been clear that this is my high risk portion of my overall investments.  So call it speculation if you want.  Personally either tag (investment or speculation) is fine with me, unless you really to split hairs about it for whatever reason.
> 
> 2.  This particular investment is also being made by members of the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance, which is comprised of 150+ member companies contributing their resources to this technology.  As I've pointed out previously here, that group is comprised of some pretty big dogs.  BP, Cisco, Intel, Microsoft, JP Morgan, Mastercard and many, many others.
> 
> Members - Enterprise Ethereum Alliance
> 
> We could say they are speculating too, I suppose, but how they've assessed their risk/return calculations as relating to this I don't know.  What I do know is that for myself as an investor that backing has greatly impacted my assessment of the potential risk as related to Ethereum specifically, relative to some other cryptos which bring nothing new to the party and have no such backing.  So, while I can see how some people can point to a lot of these others (commonly referred as shitcoins) and slap the speculative tab on them (and rightly so), my assessment of the risk here is well within limits I'm comfortable with.
> 
> Point being, there are various levels of risk even within the crypto space and, IMO, this is one of the safer bets out there at the moment.
Click to expand...

*
As a lot of people are coming to realize, yourself included, blockchain has value.*

Blockchain has value.
No need to buy into a chain letter to see that.


----------



## Fueri

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ethereum is not a currency.  Was never meant to be one.  Has completely different uses.
> 
> it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Ethereum is not a currency.*
> 
> View attachment 145630
> 
> Ethereum Price - CoinDesk
> 
> Sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> and that proves what exactly, that it has a price?
> 
> Given that I've discussed the price of ethereum several times in this thread, which is about investing, I think we can conclude that I was aware, as are most people, that there is a price per token.
> 
> as I've already stated, although for some odd reason you chose not to bold and pull that part of my post: "it can be used as one of course, but the smart contracts element is what makes it what it is."
> 
> a simple google for 'what is ethereum' will give you more information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Given that I've discussed the price of ethereum several times in this thread, which is about investing,*
> 
> Investing, not speculation? Do you think there is a difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is.  As a lot of people are coming to realize, yourself included, blockchain has value.  At this point in time the primary means of investing in that future technology for most people is via vehicles such as Ethereum which will use this technology for various real world purposes.
> 
> now we could say "aha!, but this is very risky, and therefore speculation"  to which I will make 2 points.
> 
> 1.  I've been clear that this is my high risk portion of my overall investments.  So call it speculation if you want.  Personally either tag (investment or speculation) is fine with me, unless you really to split hairs about it for whatever reason.
> 
> 2.  This particular investment is also being made by members of the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance, which is comprised of 150+ member companies contributing their resources to this technology.  As I've pointed out previously here, that group is comprised of some pretty big dogs.  BP, Cisco, Intel, Microsoft, JP Morgan, Mastercard and many, many others.
> 
> Members - Enterprise Ethereum Alliance
> 
> We could say they are speculating too, I suppose, but how they've assessed their risk/return calculations as relating to this I don't know.  What I do know is that for myself as an investor that backing has greatly impacted my assessment of the potential risk as related to Ethereum specifically, relative to some other cryptos which bring nothing new to the party and have no such backing.  So, while I can see how some people can point to a lot of these others (commonly referred as shitcoins) and slap the speculative tab on them (and rightly so), my assessment of the risk here is well within limits I'm comfortable with.
> 
> Point being, there are various levels of risk even within the crypto space and, IMO, this is one of the safer bets out there at the moment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> As a lot of people are coming to realize, yourself included, blockchain has value.*
> 
> Blockchain has value.
> No need to buy into a chain letter to see that.
Click to expand...



True but if you want to tap into that potential value via investment (or speculation) you have to shove some money into the pot.  It is by buying these sorts of tokens that people can do that relatively easily.

It's a weird thing, I know.  It's new, it's unproven in some ways, there were a lot of problems with bitcoin, and really still are in terms of people stealing them, fraud etc.- and I know people are not used to the idea because, well, it's new; and also I find because they don't understand how it works or what it can do, and without understanding what it does in even a general sense there's no way to see the potential for either the tech in general or how to profit from it.  But that is the way of all things that break new ground, I think.  

I still hold some bitcoin.  I have a ton of ethereum.  I also have a couple of other weird "coins/tokens" that I think serve a purpose beyond just a transfer of value, but those are minor, in the couple thousand dollar range.

This market has been very good to me. I still think there's a lot of growth here, as this is just starting to really move, IMO, but I know full well it's not for everyone..


----------



## 52ndStreet

Fueri said:


> 52ndStreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard Bitcoin was a big pyramid scheme Scam.1 and that they can crash at any moment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> me too.  been hearing it since I was buying it @ 300.00 and mining the hell out of it for years.  heard all sorts of crazy crap about it, 99.9% of which was utter nonsense.  My friends been laughing at me for years, so nothing anyone says bothers me at this point.  I've heard it all.
> 
> and yes, it does have high volatility, so we can see some pretty good price swings.
> 
> price crashes do occur, however, each and every time thus far the price has recovered to a new all time high.
> 
> Price crashes = Buying opportunities.
> 
> it's up over 4K and likely heading for 5K and beyond, according to Wall St. analysts.
> 
> Wall St. is well beyond the point of waking up and is looking for a way in to list it, which will happen beginning this fall on the CBOE, so I'll hang onto mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethereum is a different animal altogether.  That is no pyramid scheme.  That is an absolute monster in the making, IMO.
Click to expand...

I would not invest  in any internet currency. If it looks like a scam, feels like a scam.Then it is a scam. Its a pyramid scheme.


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## Fueri

52ndStreet said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 52ndStreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> I heard Bitcoin was a big pyramid scheme Scam.1 and that they can crash at any moment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> me too.  been hearing it since I was buying it @ 300.00 and mining the hell out of it for years.  heard all sorts of crazy crap about it, 99.9% of which was utter nonsense.  My friends been laughing at me for years, so nothing anyone says bothers me at this point.  I've heard it all.
> 
> and yes, it does have high volatility, so we can see some pretty good price swings.
> 
> price crashes do occur, however, each and every time thus far the price has recovered to a new all time high.
> 
> Price crashes = Buying opportunities.
> 
> it's up over 4K and likely heading for 5K and beyond, according to Wall St. analysts.
> 
> Wall St. is well beyond the point of waking up and is looking for a way in to list it, which will happen beginning this fall on the CBOE, so I'll hang onto mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ethereum is a different animal altogether.  That is no pyramid scheme.  That is an absolute monster in the making, IMO.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would not invest  in any internet currency. If it looks like a scam, feels like a scam.Then it is a scam. Its a pyramid scheme.
Click to expand...



ok, sure it is.

Things change.  They're changing right now.

do some actual research and learn about this.  or not.  doesn't bother me one bit either way.  

I've put plenty in this thread to allow people to learn on their own if they so desire and would be happy to discuss this with anyone that would actually like to, but I don't have time today to play a game of 'is not!'  'is too!'  'is not!'

carry on...


----------



## Fueri

Major developments for Ethereum in Russia and Japan.  These are new developments in addition to the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance mentioned previously in this thread.


The development in Russia follows a personal meeting a few months ago between Vitalik Buterin, the inventor of Ethereum and Vladmir Putin.

Ethereum Foundation Strikes Deal with Russian Development Bank - CoinDesk


"The non-profit dedicated to supporting development of the ethereum protocol has signed a partnership with Russian state-owned development bank Vnesheconombank (VEB).

Announced in a joint statement yesterday, the Ethereum Foundation will work together with the VEB to support its new blockchain research center, providing specialist training for distributed ledger technology and the ethereum platform."




And, in Japan, another major consortium is forming around Ethereum.

Mitsui O.S.K. Lines Teams Up With NTT DATA-led Blockchain Consortium


"On August 28, 2017, Tokyo-based shipping company Mitsui O.S.K Lines, Ltd. (MOL) announced that it will join the "Consortium to develop trade data sharing platform using blockchaintechnology" spearheaded by Ethereum blockchain-based AI research firm NTT DATA Corporation

MOL noted that current practices rely on burdensome documentation, which cause time delays, requires additional labor, and incurs additional costs. It joined the consortium in order to research and develop blockchain technology to better manage the flow of information for trade related procedures among logistic partners across industries.

As the latest member of the consortium, MOL joins with Kawasaki Kisen Kaisha, Ltd., Marubeni Corporation, Mitsui Sumitomo Insurance Company, Ltd., Mizuho Financial Group, Inc./Mizuho Bank, Ltd., Nippon Express Company, Ltd., NYK Line, Sojitz Corporation, Sompo Japan Nipponkoa Insurance Inc., Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation, The Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ, Ltd., Tokio Marine & Nichido Fire Insurance Co., Ltd., and Toyota Tsusho Corporation.

When it officially launches on August 30, 2017, the consortium will conduct research on trade procedures to integrate blockchain technology throughout banking, insurance, import/export, and logistics industries spanning across national boundaries."




Things happening literally all over the globe with these things at this point.  Exciting stuff, exciting times ahead.....


----------



## HillarySmith

I invest in bitcoin! Count me in


----------



## arjt27

I am by no means an expert, nevertheless, from what i can tell it is mostly your call. This post from Quora suggests that they are safe from theft, but they are very uncertain of the ultimate fate of this digital currency.
https://www.quora.com/Is-Bitcoin-safe


----------



## danielpalos

MarathonMike said:


> I haven't looked into it, but I just saw that bitcoins are now worth more than an ounce of gold. If anyone owns them or understands how this "currency" works, please explain.


I may consider options.


----------



## Fueri

Bitcoin blew up again, now well over 5k.  Ethereum also climbing, trading at 330 right now.

In the meantime it seems the world is waking up to blockchain

'We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF chief on digital currency future

*"We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF's Lagarde says it's time to get serious about digital currency"*

*Well, no shit, Sherlock.  Lol.*

*"It's time for the world's central banks and regulators to get serious about digital currencies, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund.

Global financial institutions are taking risks by not watching and understanding emerging financial tech products that are already starting to shake up the financial services and global payments system, according to IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde.

"I think that we are about to see massive disruptions," Lagarde told CNBC in a Facebook Live interview on the sidelines of the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington D.C.


Asked whether she agreed with JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon'scomments that bitcoin is a "fraud," Lagarde said it's important to look at the broader implications of technologies like digital currencies.

"I think we should just be aware of not categorizing anything that has to do with digital currencies in those speculation, ponzi-like schemes," she said. "It's a lot more than that as well."
*


----------



## Fueri

Ethereum to trade on Stockholm NASDAQ 

Ethereum First: Investment Product Opens for Trading on Nasdaq Exchange - CoinDesk

"A first-of-its-kind investment product focused on ethereum is now open to investors on the Nasdaq Stockholm exchange.

Announced today, CoinShares, headed by former JPMorgan Chase trader Daniel Masters, is launching an exchange-traded note (ETN) for ether, the cryptocurrency that powers the ethereum blockchain. With the news, the ETN joins CoinShares's original bitcoin ETN offering, launched in 2015, in bringing a well-used mechanism from traditional markets to the world of cryptocurrency.

ETNs function similarly to exchange-traded funds, except rather than give investors access to a basket of assets, they generally give investors exposure to just a single asset.

In this way, more conservative investors wary about putting their money into funds that invest in multiple cryptocurrencies (some very new and yet to prove their use case), can invest now in only ether or bitcoin, the two cryptocurrency projects with the most market traction."


Don't say nobody toldja.....


----------



## MarathonMike

Fueri- if the ETN invests exclusively in either Ether or Bitcoin I don't see the advantage over just buying either one through a coinbase account? Wow $5K for Bitcoin amazing! I guess Jamie Dimon's hit piece on bitcoin didn't scare anyone.


----------



## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri- if the ETN invests exclusively in either Ether or Bitcoin I don't see the advantage over just buying either one through a coinbase account? Wow $5K for Bitcoin amazing! I guess Jamie Dimon's hit piece on bitcoin didn't scare anyone.




No, I don't either, but that's you and I.  I've got no problems buying and selling on the exchanges and storing them myself offline or leaving them on coinbase. 

For those that are more comfortable dealing with a more conventional market this opens up the door for them also.  Now they don't have to deal with crypto wallets and learning a new method.  They call their broker, who makes the buy like any other fund.  Along those same lines, but as an example of more conventional stocks, I've got no problems using Fidelity to make my own trades, but not everyone is.  Some still use brokers, money managers, whatever, and for those people this is now an option for them to buy.




And yeah, bitcoin is a runaway train.  I thought it was going to crack 6K yesterday.  It topped 5800 at one point, now at 5700ish.  I think it does go over that 6K mark easily in the next few weeks.  We'll probably see some consolidation after this crazy blowup, but I doubt it comes back under 5500 until after the Segwit2x hard fork next month, so we likely go sideways for a bit and then back up, as part of this blowup is people looking to cash in on that.  

I was long riding this wave into the fork and still am right now.  May dump next time it knocks on the 6K door, but we'll see what the indicators look like. 

As for Dimon, he has spewed this exact same shit years ago, almost verbatim.  Meanwhile, he is also on tape in 2014 saying that BTC/blockchain was going to try to eat their lunch, so he has very good reason to dislike it and he knows it, as he's stated as much openly.

Also, Chase has filed several failed patent applications for a duplicate technology; and Chase is a  member of the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance, so there is no disputing that he/they recognize blockchain for what it is in a future component of Fintech.

Jamie is speaking with a forked tongue, at best.  The difference between 2014, when he first spewed his crap, and now is that people in the Fintech industry know better.  An open ledger technology is not a fraud.  It's the most open and easily verifiable tech in the history of banking/money.  And then, there's the inconvenient truth of how much Chase has actually been fined for fraud, among other things, so that guy has no room to talk about 'fraud'.

Dimon is trying to stomp on something that he knows is trying to take a chunk out of his ass, IMO.  Period.  The market dipped a bit on his comments and then turned around and let loose a gigantic piss right into his cheerios...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

Fueri said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri- if the ETN invests exclusively in either Ether or Bitcoin I don't see the advantage over just buying either one through a coinbase account? Wow $5K for Bitcoin amazing! I guess Jamie Dimon's hit piece on bitcoin didn't scare anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't either, but that's you and I.  I've got no problems buying and selling on the exchanges and storing them myself offline or leaving them on coinbase.
> 
> For those that are more comfortable dealing with a more conventional market this opens up the door for them also.  Now they don't have to deal with crypto wallets and learning a new method.  They call their broker, who makes the buy like any other fund.  Along those same lines, but as an example of more conventional stocks, I've got no problems using Fidelity to make my own trades, but not everyone is.  Some still use brokers, money managers, whatever, and for those people this is now an option for them to buy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah, bitcoin is a runaway train.  I thought it was going to crack 6K yesterday.  It topped 5800 at one point, now at 5700ish.  I think it does go over that 6K mark easily in the next few weeks.  We'll probably see some consolidation after this crazy blowup, but I doubt it comes back under 5500 until after the Segwit2x hard fork next month, so we likely go sideways for a bit and then back up, as part of this blowup is people looking to cash in on that.
> 
> I was long riding this wave into the fork and still am right now.  May dump next time it knocks on the 6K door, but we'll see what the indicators look like.
> 
> As for Dimon, he has spewed this exact same shit years ago, almost verbatim.  Meanwhile, he is also on tape in 2014 saying that BTC/blockchain was going to try to eat their lunch, so he has very good reason to dislike it and he knows it, as he's stated as much openly.
> 
> Also, Chase has filed several failed patent applications for a duplicate technology; and Chase is a  member of the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance, so there is no disputing that he/they recognize blockchain for what it is in a future component of Fintech.
> 
> Jamie is speaking with a forked tongue, at best.  The difference between 2014, when he first spewed his crap, and now is that people in the Fintech industry know better.  An open ledger technology is not a fraud.  It's the most open and easily verifiable tech in the history of banking/money.  And then, there's the inconvenient truth of how much Chase has actually been fined for fraud, among other things, so that guy has no room to talk about 'fraud'.
> 
> Dimon is trying to stomp on something that he knows is trying to take a chunk out of his ass, IMO.  Period.  The market dipped a bit on his comments and then turned around and let loose a gigantic piss right into his cheerios...
Click to expand...

*
An open ledger technology is not a fraud.
*
The technology isn't a fraud. I'd be really surprised if you could find him saying that. Shocked.

The "currency" itself is a massive bubble. Lots of clueless people will lose serious money when it pops.


----------



## Fueri

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri- if the ETN invests exclusively in either Ether or Bitcoin I don't see the advantage over just buying either one through a coinbase account? Wow $5K for Bitcoin amazing! I guess Jamie Dimon's hit piece on bitcoin didn't scare anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I don't either, but that's you and I.  I've got no problems buying and selling on the exchanges and storing them myself offline or leaving them on coinbase.
> 
> For those that are more comfortable dealing with a more conventional market this opens up the door for them also.  Now they don't have to deal with crypto wallets and learning a new method.  They call their broker, who makes the buy like any other fund.  Along those same lines, but as an example of more conventional stocks, I've got no problems using Fidelity to make my own trades, but not everyone is.  Some still use brokers, money managers, whatever, and for those people this is now an option for them to buy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah, bitcoin is a runaway train.  I thought it was going to crack 6K yesterday.  It topped 5800 at one point, now at 5700ish.  I think it does go over that 6K mark easily in the next few weeks.  We'll probably see some consolidation after this crazy blowup, but I doubt it comes back under 5500 until after the Segwit2x hard fork next month, so we likely go sideways for a bit and then back up, as part of this blowup is people looking to cash in on that.
> 
> I was long riding this wave into the fork and still am right now.  May dump next time it knocks on the 6K door, but we'll see what the indicators look like.
> 
> As for Dimon, he has spewed this exact same shit years ago, almost verbatim.  Meanwhile, he is also on tape in 2014 saying that BTC/blockchain was going to try to eat their lunch, so he has very good reason to dislike it and he knows it, as he's stated as much openly.
> 
> Also, Chase has filed several failed patent applications for a duplicate technology; and Chase is a  member of the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance, so there is no disputing that he/they recognize blockchain for what it is in a future component of Fintech.
> 
> Jamie is speaking with a forked tongue, at best.  The difference between 2014, when he first spewed his crap, and now is that people in the Fintech industry know better.  An open ledger technology is not a fraud.  It's the most open and easily verifiable tech in the history of banking/money.  And then, there's the inconvenient truth of how much Chase has actually been fined for fraud, among other things, so that guy has no room to talk about 'fraud'.
> 
> Dimon is trying to stomp on something that he knows is trying to take a chunk out of his ass, IMO.  Period.  The market dipped a bit on his comments and then turned around and let loose a gigantic piss right into his cheerios...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> An open ledger technology is not a fraud.
> *
> The technology isn't a fraud. I'd be really surprised if you could find him saying that. Shocked.
> 
> The "currency" itself is a massive bubble. Lots of clueless people will lose serious money when it pops.
Click to expand...



He didn't say exactly what element he was referring to, only calling it a fraud.  He has clearly stated he thinks it's a bubble any time anyone has asked for the past three years- and that is very definitely not what he said here. 

Fact is, fraud requires intent.  As this is a decentralized network, that is virtually impossible.  Nobody and nothing is undergoing a conscious attempt to defraud or trick anyone else.  His words were seemingly designed to paint it as something it clearly is not.  It is more likely that it is Dimon here perpetrating the fraud, if anyone is, as the only defense for his choice of words that I can see is that he either doesn't know the meaning of the word "Fraud", which makes no sense as his company has been charged with it plenty of times, or he doesn't even know what blockchain is, which is completely and provably false.

Thing is old Jamie is smart enough to know you can't be sued for slander by a decentralized network any more than it can defraud you, so he can say anything he pleases, and that seems to be pretty much what he did.  Can you imagine if he'd called Goldmann Sachs a fraud?  lol.  paper would be flying already...


----------



## MarathonMike

I watched the interview and Dimon was vague when he used the term fraud to describe Bitcoin. He was smearing everything associated with cryptocurrency, not offering expert objective opinions. He appeared to be a guy with an axe to grind.

Now I have to say the meteoric rise in BC price appears bubble-ish. It would be interesting to see where the money is coming from and the sizes of the buys.


----------



## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> I watched the interview and Dimon was vague when he used the term fraud to describe Bitcoin. He was smearing everything associated with cryptocurrency, not offering expert objective opinions. He appeared to be a guy with an axe to grind.
> 
> Now I have to say the meteoric rise in BC price appears bubble-ish. It would be interesting to see where the money is coming from and the sizes of the buys.




it does indeed.  I agree with that.  the question is where on the hill are we.  and the other thing that is becoming apparent is that this IS a new tech.  

crash to zero or 'be closed down' as Dimon said it would be?  not going to happen.



in terms of seeing where the money is coming from that's easy enough actually, at least to some extent.

see here  Bitcoin (BTC) - Live Bitcoin price and market cap


----------



## MisterBeale

Fueri said:


> Bitcoin blew up again, now well over 5k.  Ethereum also climbing, trading at 330 right now.
> 
> In the meantime it seems the world is waking up to blockchain
> 
> 'We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF chief on digital currency future
> 
> *"We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF's Lagarde says it's time to get serious about digital currency"*
> 
> *Well, no shit, Sherlock.  Lol.*
> 
> *"It's time for the world's central banks and regulators to get serious about digital currencies, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund.*
> 
> *Global financial institutions are taking risks by not watching and understanding emerging financial tech products that are already starting to shake up the financial services and global payments system, according to IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde.*
> 
> *"I think that we are about to see massive disruptions," Lagarde told CNBC in a Facebook Live interview on the sidelines of the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington D.C.*
> 
> 
> *Asked whether she agreed with JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon'scomments that bitcoin is a "fraud," Lagarde said it's important to look at the broader implications of technologies like digital currencies.*
> 
> *"I think we should just be aware of not categorizing anything that has to do with digital currencies in those speculation, ponzi-like schemes," she said. "It's a lot more than that as well."*



This is an important post.

I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . . 



percysunshine said:


> Invest in land.
> 
> Bitcoin can evaporate if someone turns off the electricity.



See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.


Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.

AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.

This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?  

Seriously?







 Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter

"It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."

One of his last posts before disappearing.
 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...


----------



## MisterBeale

Bitcoin Illegal in Nepal? Police Arrest Seven Individuals for Trading Operations - Bitcoin News


----------



## MisterBeale

. . . But I might add, I've always thought it a shame that USMB doesn't accept Bitcoin donations.  If this site wants to be the foremost site of independent political thought on the web and attract independent thinkers, that is indeed what it should do.

Bitcoin is the currently the currency of non-partisan, anti-Deep State political thought.


----------



## Fueri

MisterBeale said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoin blew up again, now well over 5k.  Ethereum also climbing, trading at 330 right now.
> 
> In the meantime it seems the world is waking up to blockchain
> 
> 'We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF chief on digital currency future
> 
> *"We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF's Lagarde says it's time to get serious about digital currency"*
> 
> *Well, no shit, Sherlock.  Lol.*
> 
> *"It's time for the world's central banks and regulators to get serious about digital currencies, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund.*
> 
> *Global financial institutions are taking risks by not watching and understanding emerging financial tech products that are already starting to shake up the financial services and global payments system, according to IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde.*
> 
> *"I think that we are about to see massive disruptions," Lagarde told CNBC in a Facebook Live interview on the sidelines of the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington D.C.*
> 
> 
> *Asked whether she agreed with JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon'scomments that bitcoin is a "fraud," Lagarde said it's important to look at the broader implications of technologies like digital currencies.*
> 
> *"I think we should just be aware of not categorizing anything that has to do with digital currencies in those speculation, ponzi-like schemes," she said. "It's a lot more than that as well."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important post.
> 
> I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . .
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Invest in land.
> 
> Bitcoin can evaporate if someone turns off the electricity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.
> 
> AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.
> 
> This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter
> 
> "It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
> 
> One of his last posts before disappearing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...
Click to expand...



I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.

It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.

They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.

Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.

will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.

I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.


----------



## percysunshine

Fueri said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoin blew up again, now well over 5k.  Ethereum also climbing, trading at 330 right now.
> 
> In the meantime it seems the world is waking up to blockchain
> 
> 'We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF chief on digital currency future
> 
> *"We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF's Lagarde says it's time to get serious about digital currency"*
> 
> *Well, no shit, Sherlock.  Lol.*
> 
> *"It's time for the world's central banks and regulators to get serious about digital currencies, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund.*
> 
> *Global financial institutions are taking risks by not watching and understanding emerging financial tech products that are already starting to shake up the financial services and global payments system, according to IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde.*
> 
> *"I think that we are about to see massive disruptions," Lagarde told CNBC in a Facebook Live interview on the sidelines of the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington D.C.*
> 
> 
> *Asked whether she agreed with JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon'scomments that bitcoin is a "fraud," Lagarde said it's important to look at the broader implications of technologies like digital currencies.*
> 
> *"I think we should just be aware of not categorizing anything that has to do with digital currencies in those speculation, ponzi-like schemes," she said. "It's a lot more than that as well."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important post.
> 
> I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . .
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Invest in land.
> 
> Bitcoin can evaporate if someone turns off the electricity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.
> 
> AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.
> 
> This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter
> 
> "It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
> 
> One of his last posts before disappearing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
Click to expand...


Uh huh?

Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,

We have a binder full of morons.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot

percysunshine said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoin blew up again, now well over 5k.  Ethereum also climbing, trading at 330 right now.
> 
> In the meantime it seems the world is waking up to blockchain
> 
> 'We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF chief on digital currency future
> 
> *"We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF's Lagarde says it's time to get serious about digital currency"*
> 
> *Well, no shit, Sherlock.  Lol.*
> 
> *"It's time for the world's central banks and regulators to get serious about digital currencies, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund.*
> 
> *Global financial institutions are taking risks by not watching and understanding emerging financial tech products that are already starting to shake up the financial services and global payments system, according to IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde.*
> 
> *"I think that we are about to see massive disruptions," Lagarde told CNBC in a Facebook Live interview on the sidelines of the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington D.C.*
> 
> 
> *Asked whether she agreed with JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon'scomments that bitcoin is a "fraud," Lagarde said it's important to look at the broader implications of technologies like digital currencies.*
> 
> *"I think we should just be aware of not categorizing anything that has to do with digital currencies in those speculation, ponzi-like schemes," she said. "It's a lot more than that as well."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important post.
> 
> I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . .
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Invest in land.
> 
> Bitcoin can evaporate if someone turns off the electricity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.
> 
> AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.
> 
> This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter
> 
> "It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
> 
> One of his last posts before disappearing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh huh?
> 
> Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,
> 
> We have a binder full of morons.
Click to expand...


Useful currencies have a relatively stable value.
Nobody wants to use one that has massive changes in value.
The crash is gonna be ugly.


----------



## percysunshine

Toddsterpatriot said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoin blew up again, now well over 5k.  Ethereum also climbing, trading at 330 right now.
> 
> In the meantime it seems the world is waking up to blockchain
> 
> 'We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF chief on digital currency future
> 
> *"We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF's Lagarde says it's time to get serious about digital currency"*
> 
> *Well, no shit, Sherlock.  Lol.*
> 
> *"It's time for the world's central banks and regulators to get serious about digital currencies, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund.*
> 
> *Global financial institutions are taking risks by not watching and understanding emerging financial tech products that are already starting to shake up the financial services and global payments system, according to IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde.*
> 
> *"I think that we are about to see massive disruptions," Lagarde told CNBC in a Facebook Live interview on the sidelines of the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington D.C.*
> 
> 
> *Asked whether she agreed with JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon'scomments that bitcoin is a "fraud," Lagarde said it's important to look at the broader implications of technologies like digital currencies.*
> 
> *"I think we should just be aware of not categorizing anything that has to do with digital currencies in those speculation, ponzi-like schemes," she said. "It's a lot more than that as well."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important post.
> 
> I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . .
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Invest in land.
> 
> Bitcoin can evaporate if someone turns off the electricity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.
> 
> AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.
> 
> This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter
> 
> "It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
> 
> One of his last posts before disappearing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh huh?
> 
> Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,
> 
> We have a binder full of morons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Useful currencies have a relatively stable value.
> Nobody wants to use one that has massive changes in value.
> The crash is gonna be ugly.
Click to expand...



The key word is 'useful'. 

A roll of toilet paper in Venezuela will buy much much more than a million dollars of bitcoin.


----------



## Windparadox

`
`
I invest in gold. Tangible gold. Gold I have immediate access to.


----------



## Fueri

percysunshine said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoin blew up again, now well over 5k.  Ethereum also climbing, trading at 330 right now.
> 
> In the meantime it seems the world is waking up to blockchain
> 
> 'We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF chief on digital currency future
> 
> *"We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF's Lagarde says it's time to get serious about digital currency"*
> 
> *Well, no shit, Sherlock.  Lol.*
> 
> *"It's time for the world's central banks and regulators to get serious about digital currencies, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund.*
> 
> *Global financial institutions are taking risks by not watching and understanding emerging financial tech products that are already starting to shake up the financial services and global payments system, according to IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde.*
> 
> *"I think that we are about to see massive disruptions," Lagarde told CNBC in a Facebook Live interview on the sidelines of the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington D.C.*
> 
> 
> *Asked whether she agreed with JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon'scomments that bitcoin is a "fraud," Lagarde said it's important to look at the broader implications of technologies like digital currencies.*
> 
> *"I think we should just be aware of not categorizing anything that has to do with digital currencies in those speculation, ponzi-like schemes," she said. "It's a lot more than that as well."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important post.
> 
> I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . .
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Invest in land.
> 
> Bitcoin can evaporate if someone turns off the electricity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.
> 
> AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.
> 
> This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter
> 
> "It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
> 
> One of his last posts before disappearing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh huh?
> 
> Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,
> 
> We have a binder full of morons.
Click to expand...



Totally incorrect, of course.  There are now debit cards that can be swiped like any other card, backed by bitcoin or other cryptos, with no difference on the front end whatsoever.

If that doesn't work for you they can be sold instantly to cash as easily as any other liquid asset, such as a stock or cd or whatever, wth that cash then transferred directly into your bank account as would be the case if you sold a stock or anything else.

Btc is up 700+% just this  year.  Ethereum is up more like 2-3000%.

 Laugh at us "morons" all you like.   We're laughing all the way to the bank. Lol.


----------



## Fueri

And up over 6k, as predicted.


----------



## Fueri

percysunshine said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoin blew up again, now well over 5k.  Ethereum also climbing, trading at 330 right now.
> 
> In the meantime it seems the world is waking up to blockchain
> 
> 'We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF chief on digital currency future
> 
> *"We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF's Lagarde says it's time to get serious about digital currency"*
> 
> *Well, no shit, Sherlock.  Lol.*
> 
> *"It's time for the world's central banks and regulators to get serious about digital currencies, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund.*
> 
> *Global financial institutions are taking risks by not watching and understanding emerging financial tech products that are already starting to shake up the financial services and global payments system, according to IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde.*
> 
> *"I think that we are about to see massive disruptions," Lagarde told CNBC in a Facebook Live interview on the sidelines of the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington D.C.*
> 
> 
> *Asked whether she agreed with JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon'scomments that bitcoin is a "fraud," Lagarde said it's important to look at the broader implications of technologies like digital currencies.*
> 
> *"I think we should just be aware of not categorizing anything that has to do with digital currencies in those speculation, ponzi-like schemes," she said. "It's a lot more than that as well."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important post.
> 
> I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . .
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Invest in land.
> 
> Bitcoin can evaporate if someone turns off the electricity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.
> 
> AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.
> 
> This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter
> 
> "It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
> 
> One of his last posts before disappearing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh huh?
> 
> Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,
> 
> We have a binder full of morons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Useful currencies have a relatively stable value.
> Nobody wants to use one that has massive changes in value.
> The crash is gonna be ugly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The key word is 'useful'.
> 
> A roll of toilet paper in Venezuela will buy much much more than a million dollars of bitcoin.
Click to expand...



Wrong again.

In Venezuela specifically people are turning to bitcoin and ethereum to deal with their hyperinflation

Big in Venezuela: Bitcoin Mining


----------



## Fueri

slice of an interview today on CNBC with the co-founder of Ethereum, discussing exactly what Ethereum is and is not.

for those that may be curious.  



Ethereum co-founder on the crypto-revolution


----------



## Fueri

CME announces launch of Bitcoin futures trading

CME Group Announces Launch of Bitcoin Futures


Tue Oct 31 2017
CHICAGO, Oct. 31, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- CME Group, the world's leading and most diverse derivatives marketplace, today announced it intends to launch bitcoin futures in the fourth quarter of 2017, pending all relevant regulatory review periods.

The new contract will be cash-settled, based on the CME CF Bitcoin Reference Rate (BRR) which serves as a once-a-day reference rate of the U.S. dollar price of bitcoin.  Bitcoin futures will be listed on and subject to the rules of CME.

"Given increasing client interest in the evolving cryptocurrency markets, we have decided to introduce a bitcoin futures contract," said Terry Duffy, CME Group Chairman and Chief Executive Officer.  "As the world's largest regulated FX marketplace, CME Group is the natural home for this new vehicle that will provide investors with transparency, price discovery and risk transfer capabilities."




price up on the news, of course.....6300 and rising....


----------



## Fueri

Bitcoin sailed up past 7K yesterday, now trading just a bit under.

It is pulling money from other coins right now on the CME news and an impending fork on Nov 11ish, so prices across the market are falling as traders jump into bitcoin.

IMO, these other coins are trading low right now and some money likely comes back after the fork, although the CME news is a larger issue and may see a broader market shift of money in his space to Bitcoin.  hard to say what will happen, of course, although I will likely sit for now and open longs on the others as the fork approaches as I do think we may see a further drawdown on those which will correct back up after the fork....YMMV, of course.

But yeah, 7K.  I thought we'd be looking great @ 3K by years end, then a couple of months ago 5K seemed like a nice target.  The CME news blew the lid right off of everything though, as here comes the institutional money......


----------



## Balancer

I've been following the Bitcoins ever since they cost $0.1  Since they cost $1, I'm constantly biting my elbows 

In 2014 I mined and trading 0.25BTC, but it was stolen, when the Cryptsy Exchange was hacked


----------



## Fueri

Balancer said:


> I've been following the Bitcoins ever since they cost $0.1  Since they cost $1, I'm constantly biting my elbows
> 
> In 2014 I mined and trading 0.25BTC, but it was stolen, when the Cryptsy Exchange was hacked




yeah, I've been involved since maybe 2011ish.  Mined them with ASIC miners when those came out.  Now I just trade.

I remember cryptsy.  Big Vern or something or other if I remember correctly.

Thankfully I never used cryptsy or Gox, so I avoided those meltdowns.  I did get scammed once by an ASIC miner manufacturer, which cost me at the time like 4K or so.  They delivered almost 2 years late and the thing worked for like a week before it totally crapped out and the bastards wouldn't do anything whatsoever to support it.  That's my only really bad experience in BTC, although I know a lot of people have gotten burned along the way by various scammers- and they're out in force now, that's for sure.


----------



## Windparadox

T14blok2017 said:


> I invested in gold and silver. Held it for several years and lost about fifteen percent. I do like to occasionally take the coins out to look at them, but they have proven to be a bad investment for me.Now my extra money goes into cryptocurrency.  In one year I made 7 times my investment in bitcoin. I made 25 times my investment in Ethereum. Investing in cryptocurrency was the best decision I ever made. I encourage everyone to get into cryptocurrency. Open an account at coin base. Buy btc, eth, ltc.


`
I don't necessarily collect tangible gold as a profitable investment. In the absence of technology, gold is a tradeable and universally accepted commodity.


----------



## Fueri

T14blok2017 said:


> Windparadox said:
> 
> 
> 
> `
> `
> I invest in gold. Tangible gold. Gold I have immediate access to.
> 
> 
> 
> I invested in gold and silver. Held it for several years and lost about fifteen percent. I do like to occasionally take the coins out to look at them, but they have proven to be a bad investment for me.
> Now my extra money goes into cryptocurrency.  In one year I made 7 times my investment in bitcoin. I made 25 times my investment in Ethereum. Investing in cryptocurrency was the best decision I ever made. I encourage everyone to get into cryptocurrency. Open an account at coin base. Buy btc, eth, ltc.
Click to expand...



Yeah, precious metals are not doing well.  

Lack of volatility is one reason cited by investors for wanting options for investing in cryptos on the broader markets.  If stuff isn't moving, money isn't being made, so crypto is attractive to some investors.

While crypto can be extremely volatile, the ROI for me has been great.  It isn't for everyone, which I'm we'll aware of, so everyone has to make their own decisions, obviously, but I think this market is just going mainstream and has a lot of room for growth.

Beyond just the investment element, however, this is interesting stuff that is going to be reshaping our world in many ways.  Having some skin in the game keeps me plugged in, curious about developments and prods me to stay informed as all of this develops.  that in itself is worth the price of admission, imo.

Interesting stuff, for sure....


----------



## Fueri

Bitcoin up over 8k and seems to have leveled out.

Ethereum back over 400 and appears to be making a run at it's all time high of 414.



Seems that the overall market is booming.  Lot of press due to big developments has turned the spotlight on it again.  Most coins are up, the majors waaay up.  Total market cap is spiking, now over 250,000,000,000

Global Charts | CoinMarketCap


----------



## Fueri

BTC now over 10k.

ETH @ 475.


Coinbase added > 100,000 users in a single day following the CME announcement that it would begin trading bitcoin.

Largest US bitcoin exchange added 100,000 customers in one day after futures announcement


----------



## Manonthestreet

Fueri said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoin blew up again, now well over 5k.  Ethereum also climbing, trading at 330 right now.
> 
> In the meantime it seems the world is waking up to blockchain
> 
> 'We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF chief on digital currency future
> 
> *"We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF's Lagarde says it's time to get serious about digital currency"*
> 
> *Well, no shit, Sherlock.  Lol.*
> 
> *"It's time for the world's central banks and regulators to get serious about digital currencies, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund.*
> 
> *Global financial institutions are taking risks by not watching and understanding emerging financial tech products that are already starting to shake up the financial services and global payments system, according to IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde.*
> 
> *"I think that we are about to see massive disruptions," Lagarde told CNBC in a Facebook Live interview on the sidelines of the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington D.C.*
> 
> 
> *Asked whether she agreed with JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon'scomments that bitcoin is a "fraud," Lagarde said it's important to look at the broader implications of technologies like digital currencies.*
> 
> *"I think we should just be aware of not categorizing anything that has to do with digital currencies in those speculation, ponzi-like schemes," she said. "It's a lot more than that as well."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important post.
> 
> I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . .
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Invest in land.
> 
> Bitcoin can evaporate if someone turns off the electricity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.
> 
> AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.
> 
> This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter
> 
> "It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
> 
> One of his last posts before disappearing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh huh?
> 
> Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,
> 
> We have a binder full of morons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally incorrect, of course.  There are now debit cards that can be swiped like any other card, backed by bitcoin or other cryptos, with no difference on the front end whatsoever.
> 
> If that doesn't work for you they can be sold instantly to cash as easily as any other liquid asset, such as a stock or cd or whatever, wth that cash then transferred directly into your bank account as would be the case if you sold a stock or anything else.
> 
> Btc is up 700+% just this  year.  Ethereum is up more like 2-3000%.
> 
> Laugh at us "morons" all you like.   We're laughing all the way to the bank. Lol.
Click to expand...

What is the difference between bitcoin clicking money into existance and The Federal Reserve.....same scam it seems to me


----------



## Fueri

Manonthestreet said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bitcoin blew up again, now well over 5k.  Ethereum also climbing, trading at 330 right now.
> 
> In the meantime it seems the world is waking up to blockchain
> 
> 'We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF chief on digital currency future
> 
> *"We are about to see massive disruptions': IMF's Lagarde says it's time to get serious about digital currency"*
> 
> *Well, no shit, Sherlock.  Lol.*
> 
> *"It's time for the world's central banks and regulators to get serious about digital currencies, according to the head of the International Monetary Fund.*
> 
> *Global financial institutions are taking risks by not watching and understanding emerging financial tech products that are already starting to shake up the financial services and global payments system, according to IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde.*
> 
> *"I think that we are about to see massive disruptions," Lagarde told CNBC in a Facebook Live interview on the sidelines of the IMF Annual Meetings in Washington D.C.*
> 
> 
> *Asked whether she agreed with JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon'scomments that bitcoin is a "fraud," Lagarde said it's important to look at the broader implications of technologies like digital currencies.*
> 
> *"I think we should just be aware of not categorizing anything that has to do with digital currencies in those speculation, ponzi-like schemes," she said. "It's a lot more than that as well."*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important post.
> 
> I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . .
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Invest in land.
> 
> Bitcoin can evaporate if someone turns off the electricity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.
> 
> AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.
> 
> This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter
> 
> "It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
> 
> One of his last posts before disappearing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh huh?
> 
> Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,
> 
> We have a binder full of morons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally incorrect, of course.  There are now debit cards that can be swiped like any other card, backed by bitcoin or other cryptos, with no difference on the front end whatsoever.
> 
> If that doesn't work for you they can be sold instantly to cash as easily as any other liquid asset, such as a stock or cd or whatever, wth that cash then transferred directly into your bank account as would be the case if you sold a stock or anything else.
> 
> Btc is up 700+% just this  year.  Ethereum is up more like 2-3000%.
> 
> Laugh at us "morons" all you like.   We're laughing all the way to the bank. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the difference between bitcoin clicking money into existance and The Federal Reserve.....same scam it seems to me
Click to expand...



One the primary differences when considering supply is that the supply of BTC is controlled and finite.  Btc is issued at a set rate over time.  Scarcity is also built into the code, with only a pre-established number (21 million) that will ever be issued.


----------



## Manonthestreet

Fueri said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important post.
> 
> I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . .
> 
> See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.
> 
> AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.
> 
> This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter
> 
> "It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
> 
> One of his last posts before disappearing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh huh?
> 
> Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,
> 
> We have a binder full of morons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally incorrect, of course.  There are now debit cards that can be swiped like any other card, backed by bitcoin or other cryptos, with no difference on the front end whatsoever.
> 
> If that doesn't work for you they can be sold instantly to cash as easily as any other liquid asset, such as a stock or cd or whatever, wth that cash then transferred directly into your bank account as would be the case if you sold a stock or anything else.
> 
> Btc is up 700+% just this  year.  Ethereum is up more like 2-3000%.
> 
> Laugh at us "morons" all you like.   We're laughing all the way to the bank. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the difference between bitcoin clicking money into existance and The Federal Reserve.....same scam it seems to me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One the primary differences when considering supply is that the supply of BTC is controlled and finite.  Btc is issued at a set rate over time.  Scarcity is also built into the code, with only a pre-established number (21 million) that will ever be issued.
Click to expand...

Yeah so...........


----------



## danielpalos

I just started with a free account.


----------



## MarathonMike

Fueri said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an important post.
> 
> I notice you ignored this post, which is very important.. . .
> 
> See, the thing is, when you follow global politics, the IMF, the BIS, etc., you understand, that THESE are the folks that run the world.
> 
> 
> Do you know what the petro-dollar is?  These folks that meet at Davos, these are the puppets that formed the global economy at Bretton Woods after WWII, that meet at Bilderburg, etc., the "masters of the universe," as it were, they have a plan, and cryptos were never a part of it for them. These exchange systems allow way to much freedom for the average person, they do away with the need for rulers, institutions and governments.
> 
> AGW is NOT about global warming, it is about control of energy, resources, food, etc.  Cryptos rely on energy, as does the information economy.  If AGW were real, as real as they want the world to think it is, they would have gotten rid of the petro-dollar long ago.
> 
> This should give you an indication of how much of a real threat Cryptos are to Agenda 21, and what a long term risk they are to your personal portfolio.  The global governments WILL either take control of cryptos, or pull they will pull the plug eventually, count on it.  If they have started wars in every nation to take control of their banking systems, what makes you think they will not pull the plug on these if they become a threat to the established monetary order?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satoshi Nakamoto on the matter
> 
> "It would have been nice to get this attention in any other context. WikiLeaks has kicked the hornet's nest, and the swarm is headed towards us."
> 
> One of his last posts before disappearing.
> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2216.msg29280...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Uh huh?
> 
> Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,
> 
> We have a binder full of morons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally incorrect, of course.  There are now debit cards that can be swiped like any other card, backed by bitcoin or other cryptos, with no difference on the front end whatsoever.
> 
> If that doesn't work for you they can be sold instantly to cash as easily as any other liquid asset, such as a stock or cd or whatever, wth that cash then transferred directly into your bank account as would be the case if you sold a stock or anything else.
> 
> Btc is up 700+% just this  year.  Ethereum is up more like 2-3000%.
> 
> Laugh at us "morons" all you like.   We're laughing all the way to the bank. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the difference between bitcoin clicking money into existance and The Federal Reserve.....same scam it seems to me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One the primary differences when considering supply is that the supply of BTC is controlled and finite.  Btc is issued at a set rate over time.  Scarcity is also built into the code, with only a pre-established number (21 million) that will ever be issued.
Click to expand...

Fueri, I can't find any data on how many 'coins' could be classified as out of circulation and how many are being actively traded. Could you see a scenario where the vast majority of BTC is being held forcing the powers that be to issue more BTC thus potentially 'diluting' BTC value?


----------



## Manonthestreet

Its not for me, blew thru 10 grand yesterday....Just don't get Enronned or be last sucker in.


----------



## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh huh?
> 
> Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,
> 
> We have a binder full of morons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally incorrect, of course.  There are now debit cards that can be swiped like any other card, backed by bitcoin or other cryptos, with no difference on the front end whatsoever.
> 
> If that doesn't work for you they can be sold instantly to cash as easily as any other liquid asset, such as a stock or cd or whatever, wth that cash then transferred directly into your bank account as would be the case if you sold a stock or anything else.
> 
> Btc is up 700+% just this  year.  Ethereum is up more like 2-3000%.
> 
> Laugh at us "morons" all you like.   We're laughing all the way to the bank. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the difference between bitcoin clicking money into existance and The Federal Reserve.....same scam it seems to me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One the primary differences when considering supply is that the supply of BTC is controlled and finite.  Btc is issued at a set rate over time.  Scarcity is also built into the code, with only a pre-established number (21 million) that will ever be issued.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fueri, I can't find any data on how many 'coins' could be classified as out of circulation and how many are being actively traded. Could you see a scenario where the vast majority of BTC is being held forcing the powers that be to issue more BTC thus potentially 'diluting' BTC value?
Click to expand...


Fortune estimates the number of lost bitcoin @ 2.7 - 3.8 million

Exclusive: Nearly 4 Million Bitcoins Lost Forever, New Study Says

There could be a scenario where it is decided to issue more.  It's code based, so theoretically anything could be done to modify it.

2 things make that either unnecessary or unlikely, imo.

1.  A bitcoin can be divided down to 8 decimal places.

Point being, even if price goes to a ridiculous level, let's say a million dollars, it is still divisible down to a penny for transactional purposes and that decimal could be moved out if necessary also.

Supply and demand sets the pricing as in all markets and that should be true here also. There will always be folks looking to sell for whatever reason and as markets develop, such as what is happening right now with the CME and CBOE, that liquidity should be enhanced, so the market is fairly liquid.


2.  Change mechanism.  To alter the code in a meaningful way, such as altering the number of total put out, 75% of miners have to agree on that change, which is then implemented via fork.  It's hard to see how these groups, which hold this asset, and profit from this, could be convinced to devalue it significantly.  These are primarily large commercial entities at this point, with major investments in infrastructure, so maybe it's possible, but doubtful.  Most corporations don't vote against their own bottom line.

FWIW it's this need for near consensus to implement change which is one of BTC's strengths and potential weaknesses.  It's a strength because it's not that easy for a centralized organization to control it, as in this scenario to simply devalue it.  Its a weakness because it makes it a much more time consuming and difficult process to improve it, as we saw recently with the scaling debate that went on for a couple of years.  This can allow for other, more nimble, blockchains to improve at a relatively faster rate, which could conceivably leave BTC behind in a technical sense, and some (myself included) think this is happening already.




It's more likely, imo, miners would agree to slow issue rate to keep the mining and issuance element running .longer than originally planned than to significantly increase supply, at least in the near to medium term.


So  yes, it's possible that more could be issued, but for the immediate future there's not a need that I can see to do that as long as the market has sufficient liquidity.


----------



## Fueri

Manonthestreet said:


> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fueri said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did ignore that post on the electricity, but only because I found it to be non-serious and intentionally so.  In other words I thought the poster was just screwing around.
> 
> It is also wrong.  It is a decentralized, global network with just under 10,000 nodes running.  Nobody and nothing can just "turn off the electricity" unless they want to shut down the entire power grid of the planet and shut down the satellites that are now running nodes as well.
> 
> They can make it illegal and maybe they will try to do just that, which would be more on point to the actual discussion you seem to be forwarding.
> 
> Thing is, people have been saying this for quite a long time.  Could it happen?  Sure.  Lots of things can happen, and people like Dimon at Chase are definitely going to give it a shot, which I have no doubt about, for the simple reason that it very definitely poses a threat to their absolute control of the system, so I don't actually disagree with you there.  Those bastards will "lobby" their congresspeople to the best of their ability I have no doubt.
> 
> will they be successful.  I don't know.  what I do know is that they've been kicking it in the balls since Day 1 and the market is growing, uses are growing, adoption is growing, regulation is forming around it, but nothing to this point indicates a movement to make it illegal.
> 
> I'll hold my stuff for now, but I don't ignore the actions of the powers that be either, as I do obviously recognize the threat they pose with respect to these assets and their value.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh huh?
> 
> Barter your bit coin for food.  The transaction requires that the guy who grew the crop has a bit coin account,
> 
> We have a binder full of morons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Totally incorrect, of course.  There are now debit cards that can be swiped like any other card, backed by bitcoin or other cryptos, with no difference on the front end whatsoever.
> 
> If that doesn't work for you they can be sold instantly to cash as easily as any other liquid asset, such as a stock or cd or whatever, wth that cash then transferred directly into your bank account as would be the case if you sold a stock or anything else.
> 
> Btc is up 700+% just this  year.  Ethereum is up more like 2-3000%.
> 
> Laugh at us "morons" all you like.   We're laughing all the way to the bank. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the difference between bitcoin clicking money into existance and The Federal Reserve.....same scam it seems to me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One the primary differences when considering supply is that the supply of BTC is controlled and finite.  Btc is issued at a set rate over time.  Scarcity is also built into the code, with only a pre-established number (21 million) that will ever be issued.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah so...........
Click to expand...



I thought you were referring to a supply issue as exists when a fiat organization just cranks up supply.    Maybe we simply weren't on the same page there....


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## percysunshine

"Gemstones are, in fact, just colorful gravel. They’re just rocks that we’ve given special names. True jewels are things that are beautiful and scarce. We want them because few others can possess them. We want them even more if they are from some very faraway, exotic place. Their value is, and always has been, 90 percent imaginary."

Keep the Change: The Beads that Bought Manhattan | HuffPost


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## danielpalos

I have almost earned a whole cent.


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## Fueri

The Wall St train continues to pick up passengers


Nasdaq Plans to Launch Bitcoin Futures in First Half 2018

*Nasdaq Plans to Launch Bitcoin Futures in First Half 2018*
*Separately, Cantor Fitzgerald plans derivatives based on the cryptocurrency on its exchange*



*
Wall Street Journal: Nasdaq to Offer Bitcoin Futures in June 2018
*

*"The Nasdaq exchange may begin to offer Bitcoin futures as early as June 2018, according to a report issued by the Wall Street Journal. The report indicates that the stock exchange will follow suit behind the two Chicago-based marketsthat have already indicated the specifics of their Bitcoin futures plans.

While regulatory approval is still pending, the reality that Bitcoin futures are an in-demand option has driven a number of exchanges to at least consider the possibility. According to John D’Agostino, a former Nymex executive and current exchange board member:

“Every research department of every regulated exchange is saying, ‘Can we do this?’ “The majority of costs associated with that are marketing. If people want to trade this thing, why wouldn’t you? This is a gift from the heavens.”

According to the report, the exchange would add the Bitcoin contract onto its existing Nasdaq Futures platform (NFX). The platform was launched in 2015 and has mainly focused on energy trading, but would now be potentially repurposed to include cryptocurrency contracts.

While CME Group has a much larger futures market than Nasdaq, the latter has greater name recognition among retail investors. Nasdaq’s imprimatur might make a significant difference for ordinary investors who might be on the fence about whether to buy digital currency."
*


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## danielpalos

I am considering multiple free cloud services.


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## danielpalos

How much computing power can fusion (an energy with a future) give us?


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## snow

my boss travels the world getting people to sign up for bitecoins.  He travels to Asia and South America. 

When he's purchasing something at home like a swimming pool, or car  he always asks do you take bitecoins?   The answer is always no.


 anyway, he invested a long time ago it's my understanding it's kind of like Amway pyramid.

it is also volatile and goes up 800.00  in price and  then drops down unexpectedly.  He's told me to stay out of it.  So i suspect it's  like the stock market  a big beautiful bubble. .


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## Wild Flower

MarathonMike said:


> I haven't looked into it, but I just saw that bitcoins are now worth more than an ounce of gold. If anyone owns them or understands how this "currency" works, please explain.


Don't buy them. If you want to get your feet wet then use your play money only. Say you want to go to Vegas and willing to throw away 5000 for a fun vacation. Then you can only use 5000 to buy bit coins. If bit coin pisses off any government on earth enough then that government can destroy bit coin. China can totally destroy bit coin if it is pist off enough. All it takes is millions of dollars of computer power to do it. Only a government could do that or some billionaire who is bored with his money.


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## MarathonMike

Wild Flower said:


> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't looked into it, but I just saw that bitcoins are now worth more than an ounce of gold. If anyone owns them or understands how this "currency" works, please explain.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't buy them. If you want to get your feet wet then use your play money only. Say you want to go to Vegas and willing to throw away 5000 for a fun vacation. Then you can only use 5000 to buy bit coins. If bit coin pisses off any government on earth enough then that government can destroy bit coin. China can totally destroy bit coin if it is pist off enough. All it takes is millions of dollars of computer power to do it. Only a government could do that or some billionaire who is bored with his money.
Click to expand...

I made some money trading Ethereum (prolly shoulda held it doh!). I agree that cryptocurrency would fall into the 10% bucket as in: carefully invest 90% of what you save and go crazy with the other 10%.


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## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> Wild Flower said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MarathonMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't looked into it, but I just saw that bitcoins are now worth more than an ounce of gold. If anyone owns them or understands how this "currency" works, please explain.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't buy them. If you want to get your feet wet then use your play money only. Say you want to go to Vegas and willing to throw away 5000 for a fun vacation. Then you can only use 5000 to buy bit coins. If bit coin pisses off any government on earth enough then that government can destroy bit coin. China can totally destroy bit coin if it is pist off enough. All it takes is millions of dollars of computer power to do it. Only a government could do that or some billionaire who is bored with his money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I made some money trading Ethereum (prolly shoulda held it doh!). I agree that cryptocurrency would fall into the 10% bucket as in: carefully invest 90% of what you save and go crazy with the other 10%.
Click to expand...



Ethereum is whipping ass.  Up over 800 today.

First day of futures trading on the CME for bitcoin and we're seeing some minor decline in BTC price.  Running around 19,000 right now, but no major sell off yet, despite some predictions that the bears would rule.

Getting interesting now...


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## MarathonMike

lol. You would have to have balls the size of cantelopes to short cryptocurrency right now IMO.


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## Fueri

MarathonMike said:


> lol. You would have to have balls the size of cantelopes to short cryptocurrency right now IMO.




True enough, although some of the Wall street folks were prognosticating that the ability to short hadn't really been there prior to the futures launch so we might see the bears come to the table licking their chops.

actually that ability has been there via a few exchanges already, so I wasn't totally in agreement with that, but I am curious to see how the price discovery plays out.  We may see a dip here, and it wouldn't totally surprise me, but whether that is fueled by bears gobbling up shorts or people pulling their money to take profit and/or guard against near term uncertainty based around these major exchange launches it is hard to say.

and, of course, there are many people calling this the bubble to end all bubbles so it will also be interesting to see how many of those put their money where their mouth is.  lol.


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## danielpalos

A free bitcoin mining website stopped paying and the site is no longer online.


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## MarathonMike

I saw an interesting interview a few weeks ago with a Bitcoin guru who said that the earlier pullbacks in BTC were on the order of 85% of the peak and he thought that going forward BTC would see similar pullbacks but overall will continue trending up.


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