# Dolphins players take a knee



## Tommy Tainant (Sep 10, 2018)

NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem

*Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.

It comes after Nike decided to use Kaepernick as the face of a new campaign.

Kaepernick was the first NFL player to kneel during the national anthem to highlight racial injustice.*


It seems to be impossible to discuss this protest in a rational way on this board.Clearly there are deep issues here that should be addressed but the reaction of the President and his attack dogs have made this impossible.

I dont know how representative the racist posters on the "race relations" forum are of America as a whole but it looks like the civil rights movement drove the racism underground and that hatred still exists.

Why cant the US leave the hatred in the past ?


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## Compost (Sep 10, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
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> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
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What hate is that?  The hate that allows a man of any color to become a millonaire by playing football?


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## OldLady (Sep 10, 2018)

They were the only two in the whole NFL who decided to kneel.  I'd be glad to see all of them stop, tbh, not because I had anything against it, but because it riles up such anger and bullshit among those who don't like it.

It might be a good idea for the players who are politically active to promote their ideas in another way.


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## harmonica (Sep 10, 2018)

yes--the blacks keep hating/etc
blacks commit hate crimes at over TWICE the rate of whites
yes, I agree...why can't they leave slavery in the past?


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 10, 2018)

OldLady said:


> They were the only two in the whole NFL who decided to kneel.  I'd be glad to see all of them stop, tbh, not because I had anything against it, but because it riles up such anger and bullshit among those who don't like it.
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> It might be a good idea for the players who are politically active to promote their ideas in another way.


I suppose they would say that it gets attention and you couldnt argue with that. What next is the real question. What is the plan ?


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## reconmark (Sep 10, 2018)

harmonica said:


> yes--the blacks keep hating/etc
> blacks commit hate crimes at over TWICE the rate of whites
> yes, I agree...why can't they leave slavery in the past?


*Hate crimes against blacks remain far more numerous than hate crimes against the far larger population of whites.*

* the share of racial/ethnic incidents is: anti-black, 52 percent; anti-white, 19 percent; anti-Hispanic, 11 percent; anti-other ethnicity, 8 percent; anti-multiple races, 3 percent; anti-Asian, 3 percent; anti-American Indian, 3 percent.*

*According to the FBI statistics, 66.4 percent of the 3,407 reported single-bias hate crimes that were racially motivated in 2013 targeted blacks.*

Next time don't tell such a transparent lie, only other racists are stupid enough to believe it.


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## OldLady (Sep 10, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> OldLady said:
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No clue. With this administration, I don't think they're going to get a very sympathetic reception.  Law and order types don't want to talk about root causes.

The private sector is going to have to pick this one up, I think, and focus on getting the neighborhoods functioning again.  I don't see a lot more than that they can do at the moment.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 10, 2018)

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Yes. I dont see things improvinng under trump. More likely they will deteriorate.
When I see people protest I always assume that there is something behind it, what is making them do this ?

I dont see any evidence of that in this instance.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 10, 2018)

Compost said:


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You are deflecting. Why not treat the subject in an adult way ?


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 10, 2018)

#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth *#Solutions
*


 

Hello. On Sunday, March 11, 2018, during a 60 Minutes segment titled "Treating Trauma", when 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim-survivor Oprah Winfrey asks Domestic Abuse victim-survivor Belinda Pittman-McGee if she believes the cycle of Poverty, Joblessness, Homelessness and Incarceration can be solved without first addressing the issue of 'Childhood Trauma'...Mrs. Pittman-McGee immediately replies, "No."

Now that 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim-survivor Oprah Winfrey LOUDLY addressed our Nation's **CHILD CARE** PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS, will active & retired members of the National Football League (NFL) join Oprah & Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, MD, pediatrician & CEO of the 'Center For Youth Wellness', in passionately calling for a *National MOVEMENT* educating American & foreign born primary child caregivers about a potentially life scarring medical disease/condition:

"Childhood Trauma" aka
"Adverse Childhood Experiences" (#ACEs)
___
During a March 11, 2018 '60 Minutes' segment titled, "Treating Trauma," Oprah Winfrey, a 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim-survivor, shared knowledge regarding America's easily *PREVENTABLE*, though potentially life scarring *CHILD CARE* PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS.

EYE-OPENING knowledge Oprah exuberantly confirms is a "game changer."

YouTube search terms:* "Oprah Winfrey 'Fixing The 'Hole In Your Soul'"*

___
The late 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim Tupac Shakur's T.H.U.G.L.I.F.E. Child Abuse, Emotional Neglect, Abandonment & Maltreatment **AWARENESS-PREVENTION** concept applies to American and foreign born citizens of ALL backgrounds:

T.H.U.G.L.I.F.E. - "The *Hate *U Give Little Infants Fvvks **EVERYONE*"* ~Tupac Shakur

“We need more people who care; you know what I’m saying? We need more women, mothers, fathers, we need more of that…” ~Tupac Shakur, American urban story-*TRUTH*-teller





Peace.
*___
American *(Children)* Lives Matter;* Take Pride In Parenting; *End Our National Epidemic of Child Abuse and Neglect*; End Community Violence, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations


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## TroglocratsRdumb (Sep 10, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
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> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
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Here is why the anthem protest is dumb
1) the police kill more than twice as many white suspects per year as black suspects per year
2) Blacks murder over than twice as many Whites per year as Whites murder Blacks per year
3) less than 1% of police shootings are unjustified
4) Kaepernick's real motivation for the protest was because he was angry about being demoted to backup quarterback

soooo the  "racial injustice" seems ridiculous


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## Compost (Sep 10, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Answer the question.  What hate are you talking about?


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## night_son (Sep 10, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
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> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
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Wolf!

While I myself identify as more of a sheep dog or a dark feathered murder of Crows--depending which side of the bed I get out of in the morning (hint: it's always the Right side), there's something to be praised in the snarl and snap of a good guard dog; just ask Cerberus and his old daddy, Typhon. Can't have random folks wandering into Hades, now can we? 

See, guys like Kaepernick are wolves in pop culture clothing, and they're out to pick our young sheep from the heard  by making them believe they want to leave its safety voluntarily. And that's bad mojo or juju or whatever; it's just no good, no how. Anti-patriotism is a virus, guys like Kaepernick are Typhoid Mary pirated copies. The NFL kneelers? Man, they're just tools whose dangerous naiveté has been weaponized for winning elections, and converting millions to the cult of anti-Americanism.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 10, 2018)

Compost said:


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Black Fake History Being Institutionalized

This sort of thing.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 10, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
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> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
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It's very difficult to leave something "in the past" that was such an integral part of a countries culture for so long. Maybe in another
100 years things will genuinely change.


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## Crepitus (Sep 10, 2018)

harmonica said:


> yes--the blacks keep hating/etc
> blacks commit hate crimes at over TWICE the rate of whites
> yes, I agree...why can't they leave slavery in the past?


Link to blacks committing hate at over twice the rate of white?


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 10, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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I would not bank on it. Look at the state of Northern Ireland. Every year one half of the community celebrates a battle that took place in 1690 in whch they beat the other part of the community.
The hate seems to be fed constantly by people who havent evolved.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 10, 2018)

harmonica said:


> yes--the blacks keep hating/etc
> blacks commit hate crimes at over TWICE the rate of whites
> yes, I agree...why can't they leave slavery in the past?



Obviously you are not aware that Jim Crow took effect immediately AFTER slavery ended, and lasted for 100 years. 

And there are quite a few black citizens that are still living who experienced it, as well as white citizens who recall when it was in effect.


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## Marion Morrison (Sep 10, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
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> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
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They should be riding the pine next game.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 10, 2018)

Marion Morrison said:


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It doesnt seem to be your flag that they have the problem with.


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## Compost (Sep 10, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Tommy Tainant said:


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Instead of responding to me in an adult way you show me someone else's post. 

If this is about civil rights then why is remarking that skin color is no barrier to playing pro football a deflection?

Here's the thing.  It sounds like you are claiming that because not everyone agrees with these football players taking a knee that they are full of hate.  It is not hate to disagree with someone.  Is that indeed what you are claiming?  If you feel strongly about this, then you can explain it in your own words.


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## Correll (Sep 10, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
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> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
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So, you just assume that anyone upset that someone disrespects the symbol of the nation as a whole, 


is racist, 


and you think we are the problem?


Just how stupid are you?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 10, 2018)

Crepitus said:


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As usual, he carefully cherry picks his "statistics" to paint as negative a picture of the black population. Like many in this forum do.

He conveiniently omitted the fact that of the hate crimes reported in 2017, that blacks were the target of hate crimes in nearly 50% of reported incidents, which is more than 3 times their relative population size of 13%.

Of course,  he will now insist that those numbers are inaccurate or are related to "anti white bias".

SMGDH
FBI: Hate Crimes Are Up | Colorlines


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 10, 2018)

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Well you asked for an example of hate and I gave you one from this forum. I pretty much delivered on that.

On your main point, I was not really referring to the reaction to the kneeling. That seems to be totally predictable and to be expected.

My point is that this deep seated hatred/racism in American society has led all the way to
the problems faced by the country today. Evidence of that can easily be found right here on this forum. 

And so the reaction, BLM/NFL, is shouted down without any effort to examine the causes. When people protest about something it is generally because there is something.

Trump is too dumb to realise that and his supporters on here are even thicker than he is. You should be listening to these guys not demonising them.


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## Compost (Sep 10, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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You have a way of sweeping people together as a group based on a small sample.   Your direct knowledge of the "deep seated hatred/racism" in a country in which you do not live is based on an anonymous online poster.

Thank you for your response.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 10, 2018)

Compost said:


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Who is generalising now ? I could quote multiple sources saying there is a problem.


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## Compost (Sep 10, 2018)

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   I'm generalising over your generalising?!    Wrong.  I'm pointing out that you are part of the problem.


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## OldLady (Sep 10, 2018)

night_son said:


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I don't see it as anti-patriotic to protest peacefully for change, or for righting a wrong that exists.  That is how Kaepernick sees it.
Kneeling is not disrespectful in the least.  Sitting and picking nose might be, or texting your gf during the anthem, but kneeling is not.

It is actually less American to call a protester "anti-American."  We all want America to be the best it can be.  There is actually plenty of room for the kind of fairness Kaepernick is protesting for.  The economy would not falter and none of us would suffer if the American justice system would be more fair to African Americans.  There's room for change without all this kicking, screaming and snarling.


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## harmonica (Sep 10, 2018)

reconmark said:


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here it is--dumbass
now you look even more stupid
let's see if you have a 3rd grade education or better--by your reply
everyone will see your reply
here it is:
blacks commit hate crimes at over TWICE the rate of whites
Offenders
...I give a lot of credit to Crepitus for being civil/logical/etc instead of your uncivil/illogical/WRONG reply


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## harmonica (Sep 10, 2018)

reconmark said:


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AND you don't even have a link!!
your stats are worthless crap


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## harmonica (Sep 10, 2018)

Crepitus said:


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I've put this out many times on USMB
Offenders


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## harmonica (Sep 10, 2018)

blacks commit hate crimes at over TWICE the rate of whites
this blows your liberal/black minds--doesn't it??????!!!!!
who would've thought that???!!
with the anti-white MSM with an anti-white story everyday/365
PROOF that the MSM  IS fake news

rape at twice the rate
crime/murder/etc
FACTS


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## harmonica (Sep 10, 2018)

Crepitus said:


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now this is a civil/logical/etc post
this helps discussion/etc 
even if we don't agree

instead of mouthing off like reconmark


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## reconmark (Sep 10, 2018)

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Calling you stupid would be punching down...lol.
From YOUR LINK:

*By race, ethnicity, and age (Based on Table 9.)*
*Race *
In 2016, race was reported for 5,770 *known hate crime offenders*. Of these offenders:


*46.3 percent were White.*

26.1 percent were Black or African American.

7.7 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (group of multiple races).

0.8 percent (46 offenders) were Asian.

0.8 percent (45 offenders) were American Indian or Alaska Native.

0.1 percent (7 offenders) were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander.

18.1 percent were unknown.
Reading is fundamental, dumb ass...lol.


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## reconmark (Sep 10, 2018)

*Hate crimes against blacks remain far more numerous than hate crimes against the far larger population of whites.
According to the FBI statistics, 66.4 percent of the 3,407 reported single-bias hate crimes that were racially motivated in 2013 targeted blacks.*






Hate Crime in America, by the Numbers

Case closed, nothing left to say; you were just exposed as the village idiot!!!


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## IM2 (Sep 11, 2018)

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I live in this country and am black. The standard racist retort or excuse of how what he says is based on a lone anonymous poster is not going to cut it. Tom is spot on.


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

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you/blacks/libs are afraid of the truth
this is not the 4th grade forum
....you are a rookie/bootcamper/etc when it comes to debating
blacks 13% of the population--26% offenders
whites around 67%---46% offenders
....fact--blacks commit hate crimes at over twice the rate--it's right there---everyone who has a 4th grade education level or higher can do that math
-- you obviously can't do the simple math and/or are too racist to do so
..this is very simple math

...IM2 and other blacks are hurt by the truth that the greater percentage of the black population commit hate crimes/crimes than the white population
PER CAPITA monster


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


> *Hate crimes against blacks remain far more numerous than hate crimes against the far larger population of whites.
> According to the FBI statistics, 66.4 percent of the 3,407 reported single-bias hate crimes that were racially motivated in 2013 targeted blacks.*
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thanks for proving my point
INCIDENTS  ---not *OFFENDERS  !!!!!! 
hahahah*
my facts are who COMMITS the hate crimes
yours is not


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## Compost (Sep 11, 2018)

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I live in this country and am white.  I do not to brand an entire group of people with the racist label based on the comments of one person.


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## IM2 (Sep 11, 2018)

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"White insistence on Individualism in regards to racism in particular prevents crossracial understanding, denies the salience of race and racism in our lives, and serves to reinforce and maintain racist relations."

8 dynamics of Individualism as it pertains to racism:

*Dynamic One: Denies the Significance of Race and the Advantages of Being White
Dynamic Two: Hides the Accumulation of Wealth over Generations
Dynamic Three: Denies Social and Historical Context
Dynamic Four: Prevents a Macro Analysis of the Institutional and Structural Dimensions of Social Life
Dynamic Five: Denies Collective Socialization and the Power of Dominant Culture (Media, Education, Religion, etc.) to Shape our Perspectives and Ideology
Dynamic Six: Functions as Neo-Colorblindness and Reproduces the Myth of Meritocracy
Dynamic Seven: Individualism, as Well as Universalism, is Only Culturally Available to the Dominant Group
Dynamic Eight: Makes Collective Action Difficult*

"Given the ideology of Individualism, we see ourselves as different from one another and expect others to see us as different too. Not having a group consciousness, whites often respond defensively when associated with other whites, feeling unfairly generalized and “accused” of benefiting from racism (Picower, 2009).

Individualism prevents us from seeing ourselves as responsible for or accountable to other whites as members of a shared racial group who collectively profit from racism. Individualism allows whites to distance themselves from the actions of their racial group and demand to be granted the benefit of the doubt, as individuals, in all cases (DiAngelo, 2006a).

As individuals, we are not each other’s problems and we leave people of color in the position to challenge other white people. Challenging white people is much more difficult for people of color to do,* for when people of color challenge whites they are often dismissed with a variety of accusations including: playing the race card, having a chip on their shoulder, seeing race in everything, or being oversensitive or angry* (Applebaum, 2003; Bonilla-Silva, 2006)."

DiAngelo, Robin J, '_Why Can’t We All Just Be Individuals?": Countering the Discourse of Individualism in Antiracist Education_


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

OldLady said:


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There is no room in an ideologue's mind for any thought or action that conflicts with the ideal originated in the person's mind. Material conditions are irrelevant to the idealist. In the mind of Night Son, all must sacrifice themselves on the alter of Americanism or be branded anti American. Social conditions be damned.


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## Compost (Sep 11, 2018)

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Uh huh.  We know.  All white people are bad.  And you've got links to prove it!


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## IM2 (Sep 11, 2018)

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Since I have never said that, and the person cited is white, I'm going to let you stew in your own manufactured stupidity. Besides all you guys here do is tell us how terrible all blacks are. So stop crying.


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## Compost (Sep 11, 2018)

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## night_son (Sep 11, 2018)

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In the mind of the rebel child, he or she must defy the parent at any cost to the natural or transcendental. Later in life, the child matures; the child's mind becomes the adult mind and cycles back to the wisdom of the Father in search of truth. Less is the need to fear, than to accept and know gratitude. One day, you will also know.


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

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You mistake resignation for maturity. It is ever the human condition that the body, including the mind, weakens as it ages. It becomes easy to fall back on a ready made ideology that is built up for the purpose of insulating people from the guilt of leaving the planet no better than they found it.

I assure you that, to my father's consternation, I have not fallen victim to the trap.


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## CrusaderFrank (Sep 11, 2018)

Racism is so prevalent in America that you have to wonder if we'll ever have a real born in America black as President or will we have to settle for the guy "born in Kenya"?


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## night_son (Sep 11, 2018)

Tehon said:


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And yet, you fall back on just as dusty an ideology; a philosophy writ down as a light bulb epiphany when composed and fresh yet lacking true illumination at birth; one now dimmed and stale. So age is the ultimate human entropy of mind and body? Perhaps near the very end. Until then aging seasons and weathers and strengthens and clarifies. Aching bones; growing pains.


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

OldLady said:


> They were the only two in the whole NFL who decided to kneel.  I'd be glad to see all of them stop, tbh, not because I had anything against it, but because it riles up such anger and bullshit among those who don't like it.
> 
> It might be a good idea for the players who are politically active to promote their ideas in another way.


Thats just it. They are doing it specifically BECAUSE it makes people angry. They arent trying to bring attention to a cause because, they know there isnt a single person in the nation who isnt already aware of this nonsense. They are simply trolling because they enjoy making people angry.


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

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Nonsense, the ideology that I subscribe to is one for the living, not content to rest on the laurels of the dead. It says that our social conditions are rooted in material conditions, not ghosts. It seeks to explain the world, while yours seeks to justify it. As a method of analyzing world historical events, Marxism is as relevant today as it was during Marx's lifetime. 

It has always seemed to me that as they age people get set in their ways. They are less inclined to adaptation and new ways of thinking that are necessary to keep up with the times. Of course no two people are the same, it is just a general observation.


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

Godboy said:


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Which nonsense, your hurt feelings or racial injustice?


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

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Im referring to the nonsense of "racial injustice". Im particularly referring to the fact that there isnt a single person in the US who isnt aware of these whining babies. Kneeling wasnt meant to bring attention, it was meant to piss people off. Guess what, IT WORKED! As a result, we smashed the NFL ratings by turning off our tvs, and we made Kap unemployable. Then when Nike hired him, their stock fell 4 billion dollars. Up to speed now?


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

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Racial injustice is real, why else would its exposure on the national stage anger you otherwise? The reaction to it has been hate filled. I can't imagine such a reaction to something irrelevant.


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

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Some unpatriotic fools knelt on a field during the anthem. Nothing was exposed other than their ignorance.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

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Because their actions are expressions of Anti-Americanism injected into an American unity ritual.


You are correct that it is not irrelevant. The wide spread support for anti-Americanism is very important, and should be taken very seriously, by anyone who considers themselves an American.


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

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They exposed the underbelly of something long prevalent in this country. That alone merits recognition.


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

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Youre saying that before they knelt, no one was aware that black people were ignorantly complaining about racial injustice?


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

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Is it American to sit idly by while the police state takes aim at you? That's what this country was founded on?


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

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That isnt happening, so your post isnt a very effective counter debate.


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

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No, I'm saying that before they started kneeling everyone was complacently ignoring the racial injustice. Many of you might still ignore the racial injustice but you are no more complacent, your emotions have been aroused and you have been exposed. Your only recourse to stopping the bad feelings, aside from confronting the injustice head on, is to silence the source of the hurtful feelings. Which you can do because social relations are conditioned by material relations.


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

Godboy said:


> Tehon said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
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I see. And from what vantage point are you able to discern fact from fiction? What makes you so sure it is not true?


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Godboy said:
> 
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> > Tehon said:
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We were all aware of their ignorant beliefs before the kneeling. The only difference now is, since they have been such assholes about their ignorant beliefs, we can take the gloves off when addressing them.


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

Godboy said:


> Tehon said:
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You've been exposed.


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Godboy said:
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Uhuh, and Kap was blackballed by the NFL and they put a stop to all that kneeling. I think i won this round.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 11, 2018)

It is my observation that the people who use the flag or the fallen to win an argument are generally the biggest shits on the planet.


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## Tehon (Sep 11, 2018)

Godboy said:


> Tehon said:
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What do you think you won?

Your ego was massaged?


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Godboy said:
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I got what I wanted. Kap is gone and we dont have to see them kneel anymore. I feel great about how things turned out!


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

Tehon said:


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Your attempt to distract from their actions is noted and rejected.

They are anti-American scum who should be ostracized from society.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

Godboy said:


> Tehon said:
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BLM were killing cops in the streets. We fucking noticed.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Godboy said:
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NO, you've been exposed, though your support of anti-Americanism.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> It is my observation that the people who use the flag or the fallen to win an argument are generally the biggest shits on the planet.




No one is doing that. 

D'uh.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > It is my observation that the people who use the flag or the fallen to win an argument are generally the biggest shits on the planet.
> ...


You must have your eyes closed. That is all they are doing.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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The argument is that they are showing disrespect to the FLag, the symbol of the nation.


Discussing that is not using the flag to win any argument.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 11, 2018)

If Conservatives came out and stated that eating apples is good for you, the Leftist would argue that only racists eat apples and that they are poison. Leftists just want to be contrarians to the point that they now argue that the flag, the anthem and the pledge are unpatriotic. You seriously cannot make this stuff up.


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


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Yeah, seriously. He took a really stupid angle to try and win the debate, and hes too clueless to even realize how stupid it was. This "Tommy Taint" guy is dumb as shit.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


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No,they take it further and accuse these youngsters are disrespecting the armed forces. Its pretty standard chauvanism. I suggest that you read up on the subject.


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Correll said:
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They are disrespecting them. Veterans tell them that all the time, yet it just seems to make them want to kneel even more. They like making people angry; thats the point of all the kneeling.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 11, 2018)

Godboy said:


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No. The two are not linked except in an alt right wankfest.


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Godboy said:
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WRONG! Lets review the history of this kneeling shit...

Kap kneels. No one really notices at first, but after awhile it started picking up in the press, then people started getting mad, which brought a tremendous amount of attention to it. Thats when other players started doing it. They knew it pissed people off, so they decided to start trolling. They have now paid the price for those misguided, trollish actions.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

harmonica said:


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So now you are trying to reinterpret the FBI statistics...lol
Calling you stupid would be punching down, but in your case warranted.​


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

harmonica said:


> reconmark said:
> 
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> > *Hate crimes against blacks remain far more numerous than hate crimes against the far larger population of whites.
> ...


So you are too stupid to know what an "offender" is....just go kick a rock and curse at your mother for passing her stupidity genes onto you.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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It is a mistake of certain critics to limit their disrespect to just the armed forces, the kneelers are disrespecting the entire nation.


I understand your claim. Neither repeating it, nor suggesting that I read up on it, is a supporting argument, you fool.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


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They aren't disrespecting anything, you ignorant idiot.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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That's not reinterpreting. He is citing them. What are you talking about?


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


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When you take the FBI stats and attempt to draw a conclusion that the stats themselves don't support and weren't meant to support, that is the definition of "reinterpret."
What are you talking about, or are you also going to try to look at the stats and state the they say that Black people commit double the hate crimes against whites, although that is mentioned nowhere in the stats...smh.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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It's an unity ritual that calls for standing to show unity and respect.


THe Kneelers do the exact opposite of what is done to show respect.


Their actions are exactly the opposite of what you would do to show respect.


The exact opposite of respect is disrespect.


YOu are the ignorant idiot here.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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He drew no conclusions that were not completely supported by the numbers posted.

THis is about people like you, refusing to discuss real problems, and using false accusations of racism to stop discussion and to marginalize your enemies.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


> reconmark said:
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No you are the ignorant one, no ritual supersedes the U.S. Constitution and the Constitutional Right to free speech.
The Kneeling has nothing to do with the military or flag, you were simply stupid enough to swallow the right wing narrative and ignore what the players themselves explained to you, that's text book stupidity.

I have served in two branches of the Armed Forces and retired from Law Enforcement, I kneel and support those that do.
I listened to what the players have stated and not the lies that conservatives have attempted to highjack the narrative with.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


> reconmark said:
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If you can't summon the brain power to understand what :reinterpret" means, try this little experiment out.

Go find any credible source on the entire internet that disputes the posts that I have put up that proves both he and you to be ignorant liars.


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

ke 


reconmark said:


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take those stats to your teacher and she will help you understand them


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

harmonica said:


> ke
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I can take the stats or your ignorant attempt to reinterpret them and we all will get to laugh at your stupidity.


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


> Correll said:
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13% -  26%
67% -  43%
it's that simple--palin and simple
facts
you make it worse and look less than a man for not accepting the truth


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


> Correll said:
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Strawman. That addresses nothing I said. The Kneelers have their right to kneel and make express their message. As their employers support them doing that on company time, I fully support their right to do so.


What part of that do you not understand?






> The Kneeling has nothing to do with the military or flag, you were simply stupid enough to swallow the right wing narrative and ignore what the players themselves explained to you, that's text book stupidity.




They are kneeling during the National Anthem. Of course it has everything to do with the flag and the nation for which it stands for.


The players justifications for their blatant disrespect are known and unimportant. 

We are judging them on the disrespect they show, in the process of making their statement. 

And we consider them anti-American scum. 



> I have served in two branches of the Armed Forces and retired from Law Enforcement, I kneel and support those that do.
> I listened to what the players have stated and not the lies that conservatives have attempted to highjack the narrative with.





WHat lies? They kneel during the Anthem. THAT IS TRUE.


That is their action, and we judge them accordingly.


YOur service does not change that one iota.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


> Correll said:
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YOu are the one confused by the term, not I.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

harmonica said:


> reconmark said:
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Much less than a man.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

harmonica said:


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I see that you can't post a single document that makes your absurd interpretation...I wonder why; oh yeah, because it's garbage.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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Dude. YOu've lost.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


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Obviously you are, hence your failure to post any supporting documentation...why is that...lol.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


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Still no post...dude your ignorance is not proof...where's your documentation???...lol.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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The stats posted already do that. YOu seem to have not read them, before going off on your crazy town rant.


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


> harmonica said:
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this is the big boys forum 
a lot of members try to talk crap WITHOUT any evidence 
then they try to deny evidence of other members


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

harmonica said:


> reconmark said:
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I mean, what the fuck? Does he think that we didn't see the numbers?


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

According to the FBI statistics, *66.4 percent of the 3,407 reported single-bias hate crimes that were racially motivated in 2013 targeted blacks.*


Looking at racial and ethnic categories (and counting Hispanic and other national origins as separate categories, as the FBI does):

The racial categories have remained quite constant in share of incidents, aside from a sharp drop in anti-Asian incidents. *For the latest year, the share of racial/ethnic incidents is: anti-black, 52 percent; anti-white, 19 percent;* anti-Hispanic, 11 percent; anti-other ethnicity, 8 percent; anti-multiple races, 3 percent; anti-Asian, 3 percent; anti-American Indian, 3 percent.

Now post a document that dispute the stats...I'll wait.
The document should clearly stat that Black people commit double the hate crimes against whites...good luck with that.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


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So you can't post a factual rebut, not surprised.


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


> According to the FBI statistics, *66.4 percent of the 3,407 reported single-bias hate crimes that were racially motivated in 2013 targeted blacks.*
> 
> 
> Looking at racial and ethnic categories (and counting Hispanic and other national origins as separate categories, as the FBI does):
> ...




Nice moving of the goal posts there. Did you really think that would fool anyone?


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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harmonica posted the numbers and you have failed to address them, let alone post a factual rebuttal.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


> reconmark said:
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> > According to the FBI statistics, *66.4 percent of the 3,407 reported single-bias hate crimes that were racially motivated in 2013 targeted blacks.*
> ...


The goal posts were never moved you stupid idiot, the op stated that Black people commit twice the hate crimes against whites...neither of you can post any documentation to support that stupidity.


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


> According to the FBI statistics, *66.4 percent of the 3,407 reported single-bias hate crimes that were racially motivated in 2013 targeted blacks.*
> 
> 
> Looking at racial and ethnic categories (and counting Hispanic and other national origins as separate categories, as the FBI does):
> ...


hahahahahahah
again--you post the victims
I posted offenders
blacks are the OFFENDERS at over twice the rate of whites
no disputing that
it's right there
----oo--sorry--the FBI is racist


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

*blacks commit hate crimes at over TWICE the rate of whites...*post#4.
Yeah take your foot out your mouth...lol.


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## Ravi (Sep 11, 2018)

Go Fins!


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


> *blacks commit hate crimes at over TWICE the rate of whites...*post#4.
> Yeah take your foot out your mouth...lol.


yes....what's the problem with that??!!!?????


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


> *blacks commit hate crimes at over TWICE the rate of whites...*post#4.
> Yeah take your foot out your mouth...lol.


13%--26%
67%--43%


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

harmonica said:


> reconmark said:
> 
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> > According to the FBI statistics, *66.4 percent of the 3,407 reported single-bias hate crimes that were racially motivated in 2013 targeted blacks.*
> ...


The FBI made that assertion...really???...lol.
Naw, you just tried to make some shit up and are mad because no document on the entire internet supports your claim...smh.


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


> harmonica said:
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13%--26%
67%--43%


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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fun watching you try to deny facts


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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And then you post numbers on races of victims. A completely different set of numbers.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

harmonica said:


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Fun watching you try everything because you can't list one single cite to support your ignorance...


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


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YOU WERE TRYING TO FIND SOME SUPPORTING DOCUMENT...WHERE IS IT???


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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you are right--I can't


AND the HIGH murder/crime/RAPE rate of blacks cross checks the hate crime rate
it all cross checks


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## Correll (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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No, I wasn't. The numbers were posted.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

harmonica said:


> reconmark said:
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I know I'm right and I know you can't because you attempted to reinterpret what the FBI posted.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


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The numbers don't support the assertion and neither can you, hence your lack of cited documentation.


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

Correll said:


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he doesn't have to
my link tells it all


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 11, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Godboy said:
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Nike will be just fine. Nike’s stock is up more than 50% in the past year, and up 134% in the past five years. 

A 3%(which they have already began to rebound from)  loss over in one day is inconsequential to a company who has spent the past 30 years pushing a brand slogan that says  "Just Do It". 

And what they did was that they chose an athlete who decided to "do" something based on passion, as the face of their corporation. 

The  actual whiners are those protesting over tax paying citizens exercising their right to a peaceful protest. 

What would really be anti American would be for them to fear protesting a systemic issue that should be addressed.


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## reconmark (Sep 11, 2018)

harmonica said:


> Correll said:
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If only it did but it doesn't and you can't support it, hence no documentation.


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## harmonica (Sep 11, 2018)

reconmark said:


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why does Correl have to provide anything??
my link says it all


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## hjmick (Sep 11, 2018)

At this point, after all that has been said, tweeted, posted, etc., one has to wonder how much of the kneeling is in support of the original issues and how much of it is a big "Fuck You!" thumb in the eye of Donald...


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## Godboy (Sep 11, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Tehon said:
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It sure sounds like you're saying Kap is allowed to protest by being anti patriotic, but we arent allowed to protest his anti patriotism. Would you like to rethink your post?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 11, 2018)

Godboy said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
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> > Tehon said:
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No. I would not like to rethink my post, as I always think before I post. Just because you do not agree with what I posted, that is not my problem. And "you" or whoever you identify as"we" are allowed to disagree with whatever you and you all wish to.

Ok?


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 12, 2018)

hjmick said:


> At this point, after all that has been said, tweeted, posted, etc., one has to wonder how much of the kneeling is in support of the original issues and how much of it is a big "Fuck You!" thumb in the eye of Donald...


Have the original issues been addressed ?


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 12, 2018)

Correll said:


> reconmark said:
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How can these lads feel unity to people who they feel oppress them ?
I have never stood for the union jack or sang god save the queen. I turn the volume down when it comes on the tv. I feel no affinity for it and it does not represent me. But I abide by the laws and I pay my taxes. That is all any of us has to do to be a part of any society.
So you vilify these players for exercising their right to protest. You show no empathy and make no effort to understand what they are upset about. You really are the most sanctimonious,hypocritical trash I can imagine.


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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The same way the vast majority of people in societies have though the vast majority of history. 

And those societies that failed at that, were conquered by those that succeeded.






> I have never stood for the union jack or sang god save the queen. I turn the volume down when it comes on the tv. I feel no affinity for it and it does not represent me. But I abide by the laws and I pay my taxes. That is all any of us has to do to be a part of any society.



Then what binds you to your fellow citizens? Or motivates you to sacrifice for the common good, or work towards common goals?

What you are describing is what a society looks like, in it's late decline, when the very idea of loyalty to the society, is considered passe.

Future museums will have posts like yours to show how your culture died.




> So you vilify these players for exercising their right to protest. You show no empathy and make no effort to understand what they are upset about. You really are the most sanctimonious,hypocritical trash I can imagine.





I AM NOT VILIFYING THEM FOR EXERCISING THEIR RIGHT TO PROTEST.


I AM VILIFYING THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.


And do you even consider it vilifying? YOu have no patriotism. Do you even consider it an insult to say that someone has no patriotism?


You have no patriotism. Hell, you turn it down when your anthem comes on the radio. That is more that just no patriotism, that is antipathy.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 12, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Correll said:
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Agreed. Quite a few veterans believe that the reason for their service was to allow the citizens of this country to be free to exercise their freedom. As long as it does not violate the law. And there is no law being broken.


If Kaepernick and other NFL players kneeling is offensive to the self righteous, judgemental lot of this country, their choice in  exercising their own freedom should be obvious.

Don't watch the NFL.

After doing my own reading and even talking to some NFL players that I personally know, my own belief is that they are not anti American, they are peacefully protesting what is an injustice from their prospective. #45 publicly ranting "Fire the SOBS" is what is ignorant, divisive and un American. 

Kaepernick has shown more patriotism and goodwill by quietly taking action to help other Americans who are in need  than the vast majority of those who express outrage at him exercising his rights.



What Colin Kaepernick's Philanthropy Tells Us About His Vision for Social Change in America


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## Tehon (Sep 12, 2018)

Correll said:


> Then what binds you to your fellow citizens? Or motivates you to sacrifice for the common good, or work towards common goals?
> 
> What you are describing is what a society looks like, in it's late decline, when the very idea of loyalty to the society, is considered passe.
> 
> Future museums will have posts like yours to show how your culture died.


It's ridiculous to assert that symbols create ties that bind. Symbols don't create anything, they are merely representations of things.

America has changed since the National Anthem and Flag were created. Therefore what they represent has changed, yet they as symbols remain the same.

If you want people to respect the symbol you first have to create the ties that bind. I know that is difficult for people who espouse individualism as an overarching ideology. You only raise the specter of society when you can wield it as a bludgeon to bash your opponents in the political arena. Other than that, in your mind, we are nothing but individuals competing for the spoils in an unfair world with no moral justification for creating an inclusive society.

Your flag represents a failing society, it doesn't deserve respect.


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## doesanyoneknowmyname (Sep 12, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> 
> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
> 
> ...




I'll go along with FORCING PEOPLE at  gunpoint to stand for our freedoms (see the irony?) when conservatives stop using the confederate flag as their flag of choice.......Why should I have more respect for the  flag of our nation when they have NONE?


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 12, 2018)

doesanyoneknowmyname said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> ...


I could never figure why Black G.I.s put their lives on the line for a country that kept them as second class citizens.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 12, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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> > Correll said:
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I think that there is a certain class of people who live with a suppressed anger just waiting for an outlet.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 12, 2018)

Correll said:


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You misunderstand me. I am Welsh not British. I have no loyalty to the English hierarchy.


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## Votto (Sep 12, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> 
> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
> 
> ...



Kaepernick should thank Trump.

Because of the Trump reaction, he has made millions of dollars with Nikey and could easily run for political office.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 12, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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No doubt. It's easy to read between the lines of what they say, and see what it is that they are really disturbed about.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 12, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> doesanyoneknowmyname said:
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My father and several uncles were some of the black military personnel who joined the armed services in spite of being viewed as
second class citizens.

Their idealism and belief in  the possibility that they would be viewed more favorably for serving,  was what motivated them to do so. They all ended up feeling that if they could do it over; that they would not repeat the same mistake.


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Then what binds you to your fellow citizens? Or motivates you to sacrifice for the common good, or work towards common goals?
> ...




I did not assert the symbols create anything. That was all in your head. 





> America has changed since the National Anthem and Flag were created. Therefore what they represent has changed, yet they as symbols remain the same.




Irrelevant. I have changed since I was born, yet my name remains the same. So fucking what? 




> If you want people to respect the symbol you first have to create the ties that bind.



I agree completely. We used to have such ties. What happened? We do need to consider how to create such healthy "ties" in our society, and crafty policies that foster that.




> I know that is difficult for people who espouse individualism as an overarching ideology.



Incorrect. It only looks that way because we are so often opposed to collectivists who espouse the State over everything, as an overarching ideology.





> You only raise the specter of society when you can wield it as a bludgeon to bash your opponents in the political arena. Other than that, in your mind, we are nothing but individuals competing for the spoils in an unfair world with no moral justification for creating an inclusive society.




That has nothing to do with anything I have ever said, or supported.




> Your flag represents a failing society, it doesn't deserve respect.




Thank you for admitting that you do not respect our society.


ANd that is what this is about. Anti-Americans publicly expressing their disrespect for America, AND Americans, during an unity ritual.


This is an attack on the "ties that bind" US together, and a healthy society would, at the very least, ostracize the pieces of shit that did it.


I agree that the flag represents a declining, or "failing" society. BUt part of the process of healing, is to stop allowing anti-American pieces of shit to shit all over US.


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Yeah, I knew that. 

And you have no loyalty to your fellow citizens.


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

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Dude. You should NEVER read between the lines. No liberal should.


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## Tehon (Sep 12, 2018)

Correll said:


> I did not assert the symbols create anything. That was all in your head.


You very clearly think that symbols create unity.


Correll said:


> This is an attack on the "ties that bind" US together


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## Tehon (Sep 12, 2018)

Correll said:


> ANd that is what this is about. Anti-Americans publicly expressing their disrespect for America, AND Americans, during an unity ritual.


That is only what this is about to you. Other people, myself included, see it as something much bigger.


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
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> ...



What the fuck are you saying? Is this just a moronic word game to distract from the fact that you admitted that you disrespect the country?


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
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> > ANd that is what this is about. Anti-Americans publicly expressing their disrespect for America, AND Americans, during an unity ritual.
> ...




There is very little bigger than fighting against the decline of our society.


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## Tehon (Sep 12, 2018)

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Lol, no secrets bud, I'm here everyday expressing my dissatisfaction with the way the country has developed.


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

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My position is that the kneelers are expressing anti-Americanism, when they kneel.


YOu claim that they are not.


I am a Patriot. 


You have disrespect for this nation.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 12, 2018)

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And  who are my "fellow citizens" ?


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## Tehon (Sep 12, 2018)

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I'm truly honored to be in you presence, patriot.


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

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LOL!!!!!


Thanks for proving my point. How can you be loyal to people, when you are pretending to not know who they are.


Of course you support the Kneelers. YOu think patriotism, at least to a western nation, is inherently wrong.


BUT, you are too dishonest to admit it.


And that is what this is about. Anti-Americanism and those who support it.


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

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Wow.  A personal attack to avoid addressing a point. I never saw that from a liberal before.


lol!!!!


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.


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## Tehon (Sep 12, 2018)

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I heard you the first time.


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

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But instead of addressing it, you dodged. as you just did again.


ANd that's what this is about. You support anti-Americans because you are one.

And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.


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## Tehon (Sep 12, 2018)

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What am I lying about exactly?


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

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That you claim to support the kneelers because their message is so important, and that their intent is NOT to disrespect the flag and the nation for which it stands.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 12, 2018)

6-10. Worry about practice vs. making dumbass political statements.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 12, 2018)

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Don't concern yourself with what I read and HOW I read it. That is really none of your business. And as far as your obsession over whether or not I am a liberal, you do not know that for certain.

Now. Go away. I was not addressing you personally, nor would I. For any reason.


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## Correll (Sep 12, 2018)

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if you are reading between my lines, and holding me responsible for your hallucinations, then it is my business.


ANd most "liberals" today are not liberals, they are simply State worshiping socialists. But, I don't mince words.


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## theHawk (Sep 12, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> 
> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
> 
> ...



The only people displaying hatred are the kneelers disrespecting the nation.


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## Tehon (Sep 12, 2018)

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Not only a patriot but also telepathic, impressive.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 12, 2018)

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Neither do I. There is nothing that you say that I believe has any substance or makes sense. I  hold YOU responsible for nothing, nor would I waste any time doing so.

 I am not reading between YOUR lines. So don't flatter yourself to the point of absurdity.

There are no hallucinations on my part as it relates to the legions of fools out there like you who attempt to shove their interpretation of what patriotism is down the throats of  other citizens. 

You do not get to set that standard for others in a free society, and to assume that you do, exceeds any level of  arrogance and ignorance.


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## EvilCat Breath (Sep 12, 2018)

I don't like football and never watch the games.  The actions of Colin Cancer and others like him, mostly black have made me far less interested in hearing about police brutality and black lives matter.    It has made me far, far, more willing to take the part of the police and have nothing but contempt for the millionaire players.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 12, 2018)

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You are insane. You have spent several days on this thread assertiing that some of your fellow citizens are more ciminally inclined than others because of their skin colour.  Where is your loyalty ?


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 12, 2018)

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I think they were probably in more danger from their own "comrades" than the Nazis. How do you put up with the shit on this board ? Are they typical of most Americans ?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 12, 2018)

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Far and away, they were in much greater danger on the soil of their own "country" than they were abroad. Two of my uncles served in WW2 and my father served during the Korean war.


They all said many times that they felt safer and were treated far better in foreign countries than they ever were here in America. In fact, one of my uncles moved to Europe after he was discharged, and never came back for even a visit after leaving.

As far as "this board" goes, it's a mixed bag of nuts.

There are some here who would be right at home at an extremist rally, or burning a cross in someones front yard,  but who will also
 swear that they are "patriots", and will attempt to politicize every conversation by identifying and judging  people as "liberals or conservatives", claiming that one is better than the other.

There are also a number of people here who are rational thinkers who actually make sense and are worth talking to.

For the most part, I  try to ignore the ones who are obviously radically ignorant and will not engage in any discussion with them at all, but I will talk to those who are objective and open minded.

The only way to really tolerate this board is to recognize that many who post here, just come here to say anything and everything that they normally would not say in public without reprecussions or consequences, and not take any of it seriously. And at the same time, just be thankful that you will never meet some of those who post here personally.


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## Correll (Sep 13, 2018)

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Note the liberal did not deny my point, just implied that it was not accurate, to some level.


Standard evasive tactic for libs. 



If you had a position that you were serious about, you would have offered it in that post. 


Instead, you just play games, because you don't want to offer your pathetic and weak excuse for what you are doing, because you know I will demolish it, in seconds.


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## Correll (Sep 13, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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They are kneeling at a time when standing is called for to show respect.


THat is not me "setting a standard". but me pointing out the obvious meaning of their actions.


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## Correll (Sep 13, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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I've said nothing like that, every. YOu are a filthy race baiting lying piece of shit. FUck you.


I am judging the kneelers, who are not all black, and league who's races I don't care about, as anti-American assholes based on their actions.


Address my point if you want. Don't lie about what I have said, asshole.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 13, 2018)

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Their "actions" are a choice they have the constitutional right to make. And their "choice" is to NOT stand. 

You objecting to them exercising their right to make a choice is YOU setting a standard and dictating what theit choice should be.

Get over it.


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 13, 2018)

#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #SOLUTIONS



katsteve2012 said:


> Their "actions" are a choice they have the constitutional right to make. And their "choice" is to NOT stand.



Unfortunately, American athletes and their supporters 'taking a knee' against *POLICE BRUTALITY*, are IN FACT ignoring reality.




*
Author and VIOLENCE researcher Dr. Stacey Patton, Ph.D, STOP BEATING, ASSAULTING, ABUSING, MALTREATING BLACK or AFRICAN AMERICAN CHILDREN!!!*

Hello, to my American and foreign born neighbors. Respectfully, I would like to learn if you are familiar with author and violence researcher, as well as 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim-survivor, Dr. Stacey Patton, Ph.D, and her extensive research into potentially life scarring, as well as deadly domestic violence committed against American children and teens, aka our Nation's most precious and cherished assets?

The following are quotes and excerpts from college professor and 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim-survivor Dr. Stacey Patton's book "Spare the Kids: Why Whupping Children Won't Save Black America"

"I would have never been able to do this work if I had come into this world with a mother who stayed, who nurtured me in a healthy way."

The Undefeated: 'Are there any concepts in your book that may be new to readers?'

Dr. Patton: "I think that some of the data. For example, in the past 10 years, if you look at the annual child maltreatment reports that are put out by the Association for Children and Families, African-Americans have killed over 3,600 children.

A lot of people will say, ‘It’s better for me to whup my child than the police,’ but when you look at the data, yes, we’ve seen instances of state violence against unarmed black children, but when you look at the data for the past 10 years, African-Americans kill an average of 360 children a year.

If you line that up against the police killings, it pales in comparison. African-American children are more at risk of being assaulted, physically injured or killed by their own parents than by the police. There’s that."

"In 2015, black kids had the highest rate of abuse and neglect, at 14.5 per 1,000 children, compared with 8.1 per 1,000 for white children, according to the Children’s Bureau, part of the Department of Health and Human Services."

"More than 3,600 black children in the United States have died as a result of maltreatment in the past decade, a rate three times higher than for all other racial groups. Suicide rates among elementary-age black children have nearly doubled since the 1990s, while the rates for white children have fallen, according to a 2015 report from the Journal of the American Medical Association.”"

(*May 18, 2015 - Rise in Suic!de by Black Children Surprises Researchers - The New York Times*)
___
I write about and share evidence of America’s MUCH IGNORED, oppressive, potentially life scarring black or African American *MATERNAL CHILD CARE* #T_H_U_G_L_I_F_E NATIONAL PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS that I, as well as a growing number of my reasonably responsible, caring, concerned American and foreign born neighbors believe is impeding our black or American neighbors of African descent from experiencing the equality and respect all peaceful, reasonably responsible Americans are entitled to enjoy.

"The *Hate *U Give Little Infants Fvvks **EVERYONE*"* ~Tupac Shakur

"We need more people who care; you know what I'm saying? We need more women, mothers, fathers, we need more of that..." ~Tupac Shakur

Unfortunately, before he developed the confidence to properly promote his #THUGLIFE Child Abuse *AWARENESS* concept, Tupac was brutally murdered by OTHER emotionally or mentally ill victims (*May 18, 2015 - Rise in Suic!de by Black Children Surprises Researchers - The New York Times*) of America's Culture of African American Child Abuse, Neglect and Emotional Maltreatment evolving from America's multi-generational, ignorant, once legal Culture of Racism.

Much like Tupac I’m sorry to pick on moms, though since ancient times they are the primary caregivers we look to keep our young minds feeling SAFE, protected, cared for and loved right from our start.

In her own way, Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, M.D., pediatrician and CEO of the Center for Youth Wellness joins the late American urban story-TRUTH-teller Tupac Shakur, as well as Dr. Stacey Patton, Ph.D, in PASSIONATELY speaking about the relationship between Adverse Childhood Experiences (#ACEs), aka *Childhood Trauma*, and later-life health and well being.

Pediatrician Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, M.D. passionately shares her belief a National MOVEMENT is required...

"How 'Childhood Trauma' affects health across a lifetime" - Pediatrician Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, M.D.






Sadly, Tupac LOUDLY and consistently revealed to his fans and admirers, *THROUGH NO FAULT OF HIS OWN,* he was a 'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) victim who matured into an admitted depressed, suic!dal thinking teen and adult speaking about harming his peaceful neighbors to acquire cash needed to feed his neglected, hungry, "hurting" belly..*.yet NO ONE listened!



 *



 

Peace.
___
*American *(Children)* Lives Matter*; Take Pride In Parenting; *End Our National Epidemic of Child Abuse and Neglect*; End Community Violence, Police Fear & Educator's Frustrations


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## Tehon (Sep 13, 2018)

Correll said:


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I have already explained myself. You called me a liar. What more is there to be said.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 13, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


> #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #SOLUTIONS
> 
> 
> 
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AveryJarhman said:


> #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #SOLUTIONS
> 
> 
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And why would you make that statement, "Avery"?

Especially  considering that UNARMED blacks are 3 times more likely to be shot by law enforcement than any other demographic.

Or are you implying that this trend is justified?


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 13, 2018)

#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #Solutions



katsteve2012 said:


> And why would you make that statement, "Avery"?
> 
> Especially considering that UNARMED blacks are 3 times more likely to be shot by law enforcement than any other demographic.
> 
> Or are you implying that this trend is justified?



Hello, KS2012. Frankly, I have no intention of discussing anything with you until you offer a cogent, intelligent reply to a question I asked you more than once:

My own racism

Peace.


 
___
*American *(Children's)* Lives Matter; *Take Pride In Parenting; End Our National Health Crisis; Child Abuse and Neglect; End Community Violence/Fear, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 13, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


> #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #Solutions
> 
> 
> 
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"Frankly", that is your prerogative. But as an editorial comment, had you asked an intelligent question, you likely would have received an intelligent answer.

Furthermore, it appears that your position is that under no circumstances are black people right about anything.

Because your narrative(ad nauseum) is that the black population as a whole is mired in a culture of child abuse. 

Your assumptions are racist stereotypes.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 13, 2018)

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Ok, I apologise. I am happy to accept your belief that skin colour has no relevance to criminality.


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## Correll (Sep 14, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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I am not objecting to their exercising their right to speech. I am judging them on what they are saying.



The entire defense of these pieces of anti-American shit, rests on lying about what our complaint about them is.


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## Correll (Sep 14, 2018)

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No, you didn't. You danced around the point for a while, and then starded pretended that the discussion was over.


Now we waste time on word games.


Standard behavior in a liberal who has lost an argument.


You support anti-Americans because you are one.


And you lie about that, because you are a liberal.


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## Correll (Sep 14, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Good, now back to the topic.


Do you think it is relevant that those who support the kneelers are those who do NOT personally feel much, if any patriotism, while those who oppose the kneelers ARE patriotic?


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## Tehon (Sep 14, 2018)

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^ Logical fallacy.

Appeal to motive - Wikipedia


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 14, 2018)

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No. People love their country in different ways.Scoundrels wrap themselves in the flag.The dumb fucks think its some sort of kryptonite that will facilitate their judging of their fellow citizens.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 14, 2018)

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Complain as much as you wish.  It changes nothing.

They are not anti American. They individually pay more taxes to support this corrupt government than you will earn in two lifetimes.

The ability to protest peacefully is part of the right of being an American citizen in case you didnt know it. And what they are "saying" is part of the right to free speech. That is not a lie. It 8s a truth that you are too obtuse to comprehend.


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## Tehon (Sep 14, 2018)

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All men recognize the right of revolution; that is, the right to refuse allegiance to, and to resist, the government, when its tyranny or its inefficiency are great and unendurable.
Civil Disobedience by Henry David Thoreau

It takes a special kind of asshole ( Correll ) to recognize this right for himself but to deny it to another man for any reason.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 15, 2018)

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Indeed. It requires a "special" kind of "something" to be the first to express outrage at any perception of THEIR own rights being marginalized, and on the other hand, character assault a group of  individuals who choose to exercise their rights in a manner that is not "personally" acceptable to you.


Anyone who actually believes in and practices  what the flag supossedly represents, may not agree with the method of protest, but would also support the fact that it is their right as citizens, as long as the law is not being broken.


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## Correll (Sep 15, 2018)

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I'm not challenging your position based on your lack of patriotism.

I've already addressed your position, repeatedly and demolished it, over and over again.


Kneeling during the National Anthem is active disrespect and anti-Americanism. 


Now it is time to move on to why you are so committed to this false position. 


Your evasiveness on my point, looks like someone stonewalling, because they know they have lost the argument, but without the honor to admit it.


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## Correll (Sep 15, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Don't you mean that SOME "scoundrels wrap themselves in the flag"?


Or are you serious, that you consider ANYONE AND EVERYONE, who expresses any patriotism to be a "scoundrel"?


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## Correll (Sep 15, 2018)

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This is a discussion forum. You have over 5 thousand posts, so you dismissing my posting of my opinion is not credible. Dismissed.




> They are not anti American. They individually pay more taxes to support this corrupt government than you will earn in two lifetimes.




During an unity ritual, where standing is done to show Patriotism, they instead do the exact opposite of standing. 

They are anti-American pieces of shit.



> The ability to protest peacefully is part of the right of being an American citizen in case you didnt know it. And what they are "saying" is part of the right to free speech. That is not a lie. It 8s a truth that you are too obtuse to comprehend.




When their employers, decided to back them on this, then indeed, they were well within their rights to "say" what they are saying.


This is no longer in contention. That you lefties keep bringing it up, is because you know that your claim that their actions do not reveal their anti-Americanism is so absurd that constantly hurling strawmen is the only way you can defend their actions.


They are anti-American pieces of shit.




They are kneeling at a time when standing is called for to show respect.


THat is not me "setting a standard". but me pointing out the obvious meaning of their actions.


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## Correll (Sep 15, 2018)

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I am not denying that they have the right to do what they are doing. 


I have said that dozens of times in this thread, you moron.


You are using that to cowardly avoid dealing with what I am actually saying.


Also, fuck you.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 15, 2018)

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In this specific instance those who weaponise the flag and use it to oppress free expression and then impose their version of "patriotism". They are all scoundrels or maybe just easily led by scoundrels.

Hands up who needs a lesson in patriotism from trump ?


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## Correll (Sep 15, 2018)

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Since their employers are backing them,


I do support their right to do this. And I have said so, over and over again.



THey are still anti-American pieces of shit. All of them. ANd their employers.


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## Correll (Sep 15, 2018)

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So, to be clear, you are NOT arguing, as your previous post implied, that EVERYONE who claims to be Patriotic, is a scoundrel?


Good.


And of course, I do not oppose their right to free expression.



All I am doing is judging them on their expressed anti-Americanism.



As is right and proper. 


Can we stop wasting time, now, with you lefties pretending to not understand what I am saying, over and over and over again?


Or are you too cowardly to address what I am actually saying?


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## Tehon (Sep 15, 2018)

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The only way you can attack their protest is by appealing to motive. That is what you are doing and it is a logical fallacy.


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## Correll (Sep 15, 2018)

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Their protest is kneeling, ie the opposite of standing,  during the national anthem. That is an expression of disrespect. Obviously.


I am not attacking their protest. I am attacking THEM, for being anti-American pieces of shit.


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## Tehon (Sep 15, 2018)

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Henry David Thoreau, was he an anti-American piece of shit? Clearly you think anyone who sympathizes with a person's right to refuse allegiance to the government is.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 15, 2018)

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So you're a "master of the obvious"? Anyone who posts here knows that it is a discussion forum, Einstein.

I did not "dismiss" your posting your opinion(no matter how absurd), about anything.

It's part of the right to free speech, just like the NFL players are exercising.

Rather than continue a futile attempt to make sense to the likes of you, the following is a statement by the court, regarding a case where draconian thinking individuals like you were unfortunately responsible for the administration of a school district, These school officials actually threatened students who did not salute the flag with expulsion and other punitive actions. And the students knew their rights.

"True patriots welcome dissent and protest, even when it touches the flag. To the Court, true patriots recognize that the U.S. is strong enough to appeal to people on its own, without mandates from above: “To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous, instead of a compulsory routine, is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds.”


So based on that observation by legal professionals, this has nothing to do with one leaning left or right, as you often foolishly attempt to illustrate. 

The glaring fact here is that YOU are sure as hell no "patriot" and are far more "Anti American" than those who choose not to stand and salute the flag.


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## Correll (Sep 15, 2018)

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1. The flag is not a symbol of the government but the nation as a whole, and all of it's citizens.

2.The kneelers are refusing allegiance to their fellow citizens, while still benefiting from being citizens. They are thus disloyal elements without our nation. That is a problem.

2b If they renounced their citizens ship, to a nation they obviously deplore, that would be fine.


3. But thank you for admitting that this is about refusing allegiance. So many of your fellow libs are lying about that.


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## Correll (Sep 15, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Do you think that Patriotism is flourishing in this nation?

Do you think it should flourish?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 15, 2018)

Un


Correll said:


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Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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A live and let live society that obeys the laws of the land  and repects the rights of others, IS patriotic in my opinion. 

Rituals do not necessarily define patriotism. 

But mutual respect and actions that support the rights that come with being a citizen in this country,does


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## Correll (Sep 15, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Un
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Ok. Using the normal definition of the word, 


Patriotism - Wikipedia


*"Patriotism* or *national pride* is the ideology of love and devotion to a homeland, and a sense of alliance with other citizens who share the same values. This attachment can be a combination of many different features relating to one's own homeland, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects. "




do you think that Patriotism is flourishing in this nation?


Do you think it should flourish?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 15, 2018)

Correll said:


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The  portion of the  definition that states:


"This attachment can be a combination of many different features relating to one's own homeland, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects."

I believe it should flourish within the spirit of the above  individualism, because while everyone does not  share the same cultural, political or ethnic history, in my opinion it is patriotic to respect individual differences. 

If the laws of the land enforce everyones rights in that aspect, it could more consistently flourish.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


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The kneelers qualify as patriotic on all of those counts.


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## SweetSue92 (Sep 16, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> 
> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
> 
> ...



People who post in this section of this site are not representative of most of America. They are on the extreme of either end of the spectrum for the most part. Believe that.


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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I did not ask what you thought it should be, I asked you if you think that today, in the American that has been following the legal precedent you cited, 


is Patriotism flourishing in this nation? As predicted by the legal authority  you cited.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


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You in fact DID ask if I think that
patriotism should flourish.

Below I cut and pasted your
question exactly as it was asked:

"Do you think that Patriotism is flourishing in this nation?
Do you think it should flourish?"

I answered that it should. And included my reasons for thinking that it should,
and how it should.

But in the current environment, I do not think that it is


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Bullshit.


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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And instead of answering my question, based on the formal definition I provided, you instead offered your opinion on what you would like to see.



I asked a simple question. And you refused to answer it.


Now if I draw the obvious conclusion as to why, you will spend pages claiming that you did not do it, because of that, while not offering any alternative reason.


All part of the normal deflection and distraction bullshit that the Left is always using, 


because you know that you are lying.



The kneelers kneel, thus expressing their anti-Americanism.


That is the truth, which is why you are playing word games. To hide from the truth.


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## Tehon (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


> 1. The flag is not a symbol of the government but the nation as a whole, and all of it's citizens.


The government is representative of the nation as a whole, it derives its powers from the consent of the governed. The flag represents a social relationship, in that you are correct.


Correll said:


> 2.The kneelers are refusing allegiance to their fellow citizens, while still benefiting from being citizens. They are thus disloyal elements without our nation. That is a problem.


They are protesting the social relationship. They are protesting your disloyalty to them. You see, loyalty is a two way street and you do not uphold your end of the bargain.



Correll said:


> 2b If they renounced their citizens ship, to a nation they obviously deplore, that would be fine.


You are critical of government and your fellow Americans, why don't you renounce your citizenship?


Correll said:


> 3. But thank you for admitting that this is about refusing allegiance. So many of your fellow libs are lying about that.


It is about social conditions. It merely manifests itself in a practical manner as a refusal of allegiance, which is their inherent right as Americans.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


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It is obvious that you are not capable of comprehending what you read, and have some kind of childish agenda here to twist what I said in an attempt to yet again make this about your obsession with categorizing people according to your definition of what "left or right" looks like.



The only games going on here are those that you are playing.

I told you very clearly in my answer, that "I think patriotism should flourish", and because I DECIDED to, I also stated what I think it SHOULD look like.

Why?

Because YOU continue to define the NFL players as "Anti American". And will obviously go to any length to make a point that has no merit.

The fact that I will not engage in your attempt to make your point by asking me 


a question,
then trying to manipulate my answer by misrepresenting it, does not make me a liar. It makes you a dishonest sneak, with no integrity.

You are more anti American than ANY of the players are for labeling them, in order
 to elevate your own fake "patriotism" because they are exercising their rights in a lawful and peaceful manner.

You're a small minded, moralizing hypocrite.


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > 1. The flag is not a symbol of the government but the nation as a whole, and all of it's citizens.
> ...





1. I'm not sure what you mean by "social relationship".  It is a symbol of our nation as a whole. The government is really not relevant to the issue. 


2. I am not disloyal to them. THey are my fellow Americans. When they are not actively expressing their disloyalty to me, I wish them well. 


3. I am critical of the government and many of my fellow Americans. But I still consider myself an American, and as such address policy and issues with the goal of the improving the interests of Americans as a whole. 

If I was so opposed to my fellow Americans, that I, not only felt that I could not stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, that I had to take the step of disrupting THEIR loyalty ritual with a public and active expression of DISLOYALTY, 


then, yes, it would be time to stop accepting the benefits of a group I not only did not consider myself a member of, but actively hated.


4. They have the right to refuse to express allegiance. And of course, I have a right to judge them on their position on the matter, and the fact that they went so far as to do so during our unity ritual.


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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I was not trying to manipulate your answer. I merely wanted you to use the actual definition of words. 


I am not labeling the kneelers for "exercising their rights". I am labeling them based on their expressed disloyalty.


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## Tehon (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


> 1. I'm not sure what you mean by "social relationship". It is a symbol of our nation as a whole. The government is really not relevant to the issue.


If your intent is to make this an issue about our nation as a whole (a social relationship) you cannot separate government from the whole, it is entirely relevant. Especially in light of the fact that policing, a government function, is in large part a focus of the social injustice being protested.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


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Peacefully  protesting is not disloyalty. And yes, you attempted to manipulate my answer, in an effort to play your own word games.

Art Thiel: There’s a difference between dissent and disloyalty | HeraldNet.com


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
> 
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> > 1. I'm not sure what you mean by "social relationship". It is a symbol of our nation as a whole. The government is really not relevant to the issue.
> ...







It is not I that is making this about our nation as whole. 


The flag have been the symbol of our nation, since it had thirteen stars.


Indeed, FLAGS have stood for NATIONS, for thousands of years. That is their POINT.


It is absurd that you libs pretend to not know this.


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## Tehon (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


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This entire argument is predicated on you pretending to not understand why the players are protesting.


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
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If someone asks you to wave your hands to show support for Trump, and you put your hands in your pockets, 


are you showing support for Trump?


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## OldLady (Sep 16, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
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It is a distraction and a way to discredit their protest, all at the same time.  Unfortunately, a lot of people bought it.


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

Tehon said:


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NOt at all. 


NOthing in my argument, is based on their stated reason at all.


My point is about the meanings of their actual actions. 



THink of it this way, 


this could be seen as an ad for beer.










But some girl complained it was sexist, would you respond that they have a right to advertise beer?


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

OldLady said:


> Tehon said:
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No, it is not.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


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What does Trump have to do with this topic? Besides him being a dumbass and referring to the  protestors as  SOB'S and demanding that they be "fired"?

But that's a funny question. What is your ulterior motive for asking it?


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## OldLady (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


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These threads roll along all the time here.  No one gets tired of talking about how anti-American and unpatriotic these protesters are.  Ever.
How often do these threads actually talk about the REASON for the protests?  Like never.


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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It is clearly a hypothetical question to get you to face the point I am making that you are pretending to be too stupid to understand. As you well know, liar.


I repeat my question.




If someone asks you to wave your hands to show support for Trump, and you put your hands in your pockets,


are you showing support for Trump?


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## Correll (Sep 16, 2018)

OldLady said:


> Correll said:
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Their stated reasons do not excuse their anti-American actions.


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## OldLady (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


> OldLady said:
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You prove my point.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


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It's a hypothetical question that has nothing to do with this thread. And you pretending to be stupid enough to think it serves a point is the most humorous statement that you've made all morning.

On the other hand, here is a challenge for you. Point out how I am "lying" about anything.

Besides you repeating ad nauseam that the protestors are ""anti American", you have not made a lucid point, nor cited any law, or posted any link to support that accusation.

And while you're figuring that out, it's obvious that you follow a pattern in everything that you post. 

You use the same words repeatedly, and when someone disagrees with you, your first response is to say they are a "lib or leftie", next you try to bait them with questions that do not pertain to the subject matter, next, when they don't fall for it, then you resort to claiming that their argument is a lie. Then last you resort to name calling.

I have a 5 year old niece who coverses in a similar manner, when she does not get her way.


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## Tehon (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


> Tehon said:
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Yes, they have a right to advertise beer.


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## Tehon (Sep 16, 2018)

OldLady said:


> Tehon said:
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They have to ignore the preconditions, it is the only way they can keep up the delusion of standing on solid ground. Even at that they are discrediting the very ideals this nation was founded on.


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## OldLady (Sep 16, 2018)

Tehon said:


> OldLady said:
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I wish the protesters would find another outlet for their activism, because this one has backfired, imo.  It brought attention to the topic, yes, but it also raised a huge amount of opposition to the "cause" from people who were otherwise not on one side of the fence or the other before then.  There are people who are not overtly racist who very much object to not showing obesiance to the flag and our anthem.  It is a knee jerk reaction without a lot of sense behind it, but it is what it is.


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## Tehon (Sep 16, 2018)

OldLady said:


> Tehon said:
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I understand that thought, I don't exactly agree with it. I'm glad they did it, whether it had the effects they were looking for or not. It provided insight into the mentality of this nation that is generally suppressed.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 16, 2018)

Correll said:


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_This attachment can be a combination of many different features relating to one's own homeland, including *ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects. "*_
Its your definition mate.
I think it also shows other positive traits such as support for the downtrodden and evidence of a social conscience by people who could easily look the other way.


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## Mike Dwight (Sep 16, 2018)

This kneeling stuff is stupider than black lives matter, see I run on the field, kneeling guy, hand on shoulder, O  I wish I was in the land of cotton, then I lead him back to my place, I'm right there with the movement.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 17, 2018)

SweetSue92 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> > NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> ...


I see two groups. One group is racist trash. The other group are people reacting to the racism. There is only one group of extremists.


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## SweetSue92 (Sep 17, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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False, there are racists on both ends. I have been called names on this forum for being white. Believe that.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 17, 2018)

SweetSue92 said:


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I have been called a lot of names for being a civilised,educated human being. Dont let it bother you.
But further to that I dont think you can blame an oppressed section of society for kicking back. It doesnt make them racist, it makes them sick of the way they are treated.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
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If you answered the question, you would demonstrate knowing that doing the opposite of what is asked to show a certain response, is to communicate the opposite response. 


Thus, if I asked you to raise your hand if you support Trump and instead you shoved them deep into your pockets, 


you are demonstrating that you do not support Trump or that you are "anti-Trump".


The same way if I asked you to stand to show support for America, and instead you knelt, you would be communicating that you do not support America, or that you are Anti-American.

Which was painfully obvious. YOur pretense that you did not get that, is a lie. 







> On the other hand, here is a challenge for you. Point out how I am "lying" about anything.




Just did. Right above. LIar.




> Besides you repeating ad nauseam that the protestors are ""anti American", you have not made a lucid point, nor cited any law, or posted any link to support that accusation.




Totally have. And you know it. Liar.



> And while you're figuring that out, it's obvious that you follow a pattern in everything that you post.
> 
> You use the same words repeatedly,




Because you libs are denying the obvious reality. I have simplified the argument down to the most concise and obvious words, to try make your ridiculous denials, obvious to the point that I get browbeat you libs into admitting the truth.




> and when someone disagrees with you, your first response is to say they are a "lib or leftie",



Nope. My first response is to address their reason for disagreeing. If they are kind enough to share it, instead of just calling me names.

I often mention that they are libs or lefties, because it is generally relevant.



> next you try to bait them with questions that do not pertain to the subject matter, next, when they don't fall for it, then you resort to claiming that their argument is a lie. Then last you resort to name calling.





My question about raising your hand to support Trump was obviously asked to make a relevant point about the topic. You are lying in pretending to be too stupid to understand that. 


This is a common defense with libs, when presented with truths they don't like. See how that is relevant too?

And I called you a name, because you fucking deserve it for making a simple question into fucking torture. 


Why are you such an asshole?




> I have a 5 year old niece who coverses in a similar manner, when she does not get her way.





I believe that. I can believe that when she asks questions to get at the reason for your position, that you just stone wall further and ridicule her for asking questions.


I always try to answer such questions from my daughter, unless she is doing her delaying bedtime tactic.


I'm raising her to ask questions.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
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Yep. You did not feel a need to pretend that a complaint about the sexism of the ad, was a complaint about advertising. 

A complaint about the message, the underlying message, beyond the stated message, is not a denial of their right to free speech.



You listened to what the hypothetical feminists said, and did not just attack her based on moronic misrepresentations of her position, and then hold to your misrepresentation, despite her pointing out your stupidity over and over and over again.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

OldLady said:


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There is plenty of sense to it. By their actions they show that they hold their fans and society in contempt.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Dude. you are jumping in and answering the wrong question, and doing it badly.

But I will address your point anyway.


By disrespecting the symbol of the nation as a whole, for not agreeing with them on a certain issue, they are stating that the nation has failed to live up to their standards, in their view, 


AND THAT THUS, THEY DO NOT FEEL LOYALTY TO IT, OR THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.



That is not patriotic.


To do what you are claiming they are doing, they would have to somehow express their position, WHILE SAYING THEY STILL FEEL LOYALTY TO THE NATION AND THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS.


That would be patriotic, but it is not what they did.



AND I think it is worth noting that you have admitted that you feel no patriotism to your nation, or your fellow citizens.


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## Tehon (Sep 17, 2018)

Correll said:


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I didn't attack anyone. I recognized both her right and the right of the advertiser without taking a position. 

Likewise, I do not deny you your position. But I do take exception to it. 

I'm not sure what this exercise was supposed to prove. You are the one twisting yourself into contortions over this.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

Tehon said:


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Can you not see how it is an analogy for the Kneelers and their critics?


I am complaining about their message. Not their stated messages, ie sell beer/protest, but on the greater meta message of sexism/anti-Americanism.



IN doing so, i am not attacking their right to speech, but judging the content of their message and them for making it.



They are sexist/anti-American assholes.


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## Tehon (Sep 17, 2018)

Correll said:


> Tehon said:
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Protesting is not anti American.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 17, 2018)

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In fact I do encourage my niece to ask questions. But I also encourage her to understand, that it is a persons FREEDOM of choice to choose not to answer, and to respect that choice. Something that you have obviously not learned during your own lifetime.


Thank you for proving my earlier point. You just showcased  every behavior that I described that you exhibit in every thread that you post in.



*You use the same words repeatedly.

*When someone disagrees with you, your first response is to say they are a "lib". When you have no idea what their personal political beliefs are.

*You attempt to change the topic with questions that do not pertain to the subject matter, while pretending that you ask off topic questions to "prove a point". A point that makes no sense.

*When others don't fall for your childish tactics, then you resort to claiming that their argument is a "lie".  The same behavior that you are so quick to say that so called "libs" are guilty of.

*Next, you resort to name calling. Another childish action.....or maybe it is actually the sign of a feeble mind, attempting to wage an argument that you are getting your dumb ass handed to you in.

As far as me turning your stupid question into "torture". You tortured yourself. Because I would not play your silly game. That is childish reasoning.

And lastly, to answer your question, "Why am I an asshole"?

Because I am not cordial towards, nor do I have a shred of tolerance for immature, pompous, sanctimonious, judgmental individuals, with over inflated egos who would fall the equivalent of 10 stories after getting knocked off of their high horse.

Fuck you.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

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Are you really defending this?


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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If you don't want to answer questions, then you should not be here. Discussion is a two way street.


During a ritual where standing is done to show respect they did the opposite.


By doing that, they were/are showing the opposite of respect, ie disrespect.



That is the truth that I have rubbed in your face, and the reason you are an asshole to me, is not because of any personal flaws I may or may not have, but because I have called you on your bullshit.



Fuck you.


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## Tehon (Sep 17, 2018)

Correll said:


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They have a right to protest.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

Tehon said:


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You made a blanket statement that "Protesting is not anti American".


THus, by that logic, you are defending "BLOOD AND SOIL!".


Would you like to clarify your statement about "all protests"?


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## Tehon (Sep 17, 2018)

Correll said:


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They have a right to protest. I can not make it any more clear than that.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

Tehon said:


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No one is saying they don't. 


YOu libs keep going back to that, when you want to dodge the truth, ie that the kneelers are anti-American pieces of shit.


It is a dodge. You are changing the subject to a strawman of your own invention.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 17, 2018)

Correll said:


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Well I quoted your definition and explained that all of those factors were covered by what the kneelers were doing. You havent even attempted to respond apart from capitalising your previous statements. Hint - it doesnt make them right. It is blindingly obvious that these guys are showing loyalty in very difficult circumstances. One of them sacrificed his career for it. That takes some guts. I seem to remember some boxer guy doing similar back in the 60s. I think that he was vilified for it as well.

These young men are engaged in the political process and are highlighting issues in the country. America should be proud of these youngsters.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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You could have the opinion that the kneelers are demonstrating an adherence to one of the "aspects" you bolded, 

but the way they are demonstrating their particular attachment is showing that their attachment is


*NOT* to their nation as a whole. Or they would have STOOD to show "Devotion to their homeland".




YOu can believe that what they are "attached" to is a good thing, but that does not mean that they are not stating that the nation as a whole, is, in their opinion on board with it.


And thus, they are NOT attached to the nation as a whole.


They are are NOT patriotic.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 17, 2018)

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Oh dear. America would be a better place if their concerns were heeded. Everyone would benefit.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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If they wanted to have their concerns heeded, they should have not opened up with disrespecting and insulting their fellow citizens. 


As it stands, the only thing I care to discuss about them, is how they are anti-American pieces of shit that should be cast out of society.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 17, 2018)

Correll said:


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They are society. They entertain millions,pay huge taxes and obey the laws of the country. What else would you have them do ?


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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THey are not society. 

I would have them, if they personally do not feel any patriotism to their nation, at least show some respect to their fans and fellow players who do, and not actively show disrespect and disloyalty during the National Anthem.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 17, 2018)

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They tick all the boxes on your definition of patriotism. I have already explained this to you.


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## Tehon (Sep 17, 2018)

Correll said:


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Who brought advertising and white supremacy protestors into the conversation? Not me.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 17, 2018)

Correll said:


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I will be the one who determines if I should be here or not. AND I will choose what questions that I will answer.  If that bothers you, then don't address me.

Clear?


I actually agree that  "discussion is a two way street". The problem with you is that YOU haven't got a clue what that looks like.

A person like you who repeats phrases like "my point stands", and consistently rushes to judgement without objectivity and has the gall to  label people who do not express their dissent in a manner that makes YOU comfortable, is not interested in "discussion" in an adult manner.

You didn't "call me" on a damn thing,  except me not listening to you refer to people that you dont approve of as "anti American". The humor and irony in that allegation from you is that they are exercising an AMERICAN right to protest peacefully and are obeying the law.

You are too thick headed and ignorant to understand that they are not wrong.  They are more pro American than a moralizing  creep like YOU.

I won't waste valuable  time outlining your "personal flaws", because as we know, this is a free country.

Which means that you are free to be a fucking idiot as well as a pompous asshole.

Carry on.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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They specifically expressed their LACK of attachment to their homeland. 


They are not patriots. They are the opposite of patriots.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

Tehon said:


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To demonstrate the absurdity of your position. 



YOu have defended their right to speech. Which no one is trying to take away.


You have stated that "protesting is not anti-America" and did not budge on that, even when faced with a White Supremacist protest.


You did not have the honesty to admit the obvious truth, ie that some protests are anti-American.


YOu put forth strawmen, and dodge, all to avoid the obvious and simple truth.



Kneeling during the National Anthem is an expression of anti-Americanism.


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## Tehon (Sep 17, 2018)

Correll said:


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I know how you feel about it. You are welcome to your opinion.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

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Nope. It is silly to be on a discussion forum and to be afraid to answer a simple hypothetical question about raising your hand if you support Trump.

YOur strong denial of that fact, does not make your behavior any less silly.




> I actually agree that  "discussion is a two way street". The problem with you is that YOU haven't got a clue what that looks like.




Sure I do. For example, if you were to answer that question, then I could point out how silly your position on the kneelers are.

Hopefully then, you would admit that, and admit what the real reason for your support for the kneelers is.




> A person like you who repeats phrases like "my point stands", and consistently rushes to judgement without objectivity and has the gall to  label people who do not express their dissent in a manner that makes YOU comfortable, is not interested in "discussion" in an adult manner.



TIme and time again, I make a point, only to have some lib replay in such a way, that in no way really addresses my point.

I don't want the last valid point made, to be buried under stupid shit, so I restate it, on the hope that someone has something relevant to say.





> You didn't "call me" on a damn thing,  except me not listening to you refer to people that you dont approve of as "anti American". The humor and irony in that allegation from you is that they are exercising an AMERICAN right to protest peacefully and are obeying the law.




I'm not calling them anti-American, because I don't approve of them. I am calling them anti-American, because they are kneeling when standing is done to show pro-Americanism.

.





> You are too thick headed and ignorant to understand that they are not wrong.  They are more pro American than a moralizing  creep like YOU..



Being peaceful, or law abiding is not a bar from being anti-American. You might as well discuss how tall they are.

They do not love or respect this nation, or their fellow citizens.


I just think that we should return the favor.






> I won't waste valuable  time outlining your "personal flaws", because as we know, this is a free country.
> 
> Which means that you are free to be a fucking idiot as well as a pompous asshole.
> 
> Carry on.





If I were to operate under your rules, right now, I would take your insult of me, as "evidence" that you are trying to deny me my right to speak.


YOu didn't say anything like that, but by your rules, calling some one out of their behavior, and insulting them based on it, is an attempt, somehow, to deny them the right to be a "fucking idiot" or an "anti-American piece of shit".



Which is my point, that you are hiding from.


None of us want to stop the kneelers from having their rights or exercising,


Anymore than you want to deny me my right to speech.


So, we done wasting time pretending that this is about something it is not?


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

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It is not just my opinion. It is the logical interpretation of doing the opposite of what is expected.


If you purposefully and actively do the OPPOSITE of what is done to show pro-Americanism, then you have shown anti-Americanism.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 17, 2018)

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Tommy Tainant said:


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Tommy, the "boxer guy" was none other than Muhammad Ali. He refused to serve in Vietnam during that war, due to being a conscientious objector.

The government attempted to vilify him, ruin him and take away his life.

He was vindicated by the Supreme Court in 1970.


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## Tehon (Sep 17, 2018)

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The ideas that constitute American idealism are entirely subjective.

For you, not standing at attention for the National anthem is an assault on your senses, or something.

For me, doing so as a method of peaceful protest is entirely in keeping with American ideals. It is a freedom we all share. 

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I.


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## AzogtheDefiler (Sep 17, 2018)

We are the knights who say nee


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 17, 2018)

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Yup, my all time hero along with Bobby Shinton and Gareth Bale.
I think that his stand echoes today.Any sane adult would recognise the truth in his words. Why should a black man fight for a flag that oppresses him ?
My family fought 2 wars for the UK.
The first world war saw 3 family members die. My Great Grandmother received a telegram in the morning telling her that her husband had been killed. She got one in the afternoon telling her that her brother had also gone. She lived the rest of her life in poverty bringing up 5 children without a man in the house.
What benefit did my family get from winning the war ? Nothing.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

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We are not discussion American Idealism. We are discussing Patriotism and anti-Americanism.


Patriotism is a real concept with a real meaning. It requires some level of attachment to the nation.


By refusing to stand during the National Anthem, by doing more than that, by doing the OPPOSITE of what is done to show Patriotism, 

they are actively demonstrating, at the very least, a complete lack of attachment to the nation, if not outright hostility.



That is not a matter of personal opinion. You don't get to watch someone state that he has no attachment to the nation and then call him a Patriot.



By denying this simple truth, you raise an obvious question. What is your real motivation here?


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## Tehon (Sep 17, 2018)

Correll said:


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Correll said:


> Patriotism is a real concept with a real meaning. It requires some level of attachment to the nation


Patriotism is subjective. You can't even quantify it.

Americanism is holding true to American ideals. You know, like freedom of speech, even when it hurts your sensibilities. Lucky for you that you can find your safe space by turning off the tv.


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## Correll (Sep 17, 2018)

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1. Patriotism is not subjective. THe definition requires attachment, if not love, of your nation. The kneelers have demonstrated at least a lack of that, if not outright hostility.


2. I fully support the kneelers right to free speech. 

3. That does not mean I have any obligation to not judge them on what they say. And I take them at their word.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 19, 2018)

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What the hell, would make you think that I am "afraid" of answering a question from YOU?

I don't like talking in circles with idiots. And I decide wha You've let your sentiments on this matter


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Why the hell would I be "afraid" to answer a question from a racist asshole like you?

I frankly do not enjoy typing the same words and repeating myself over and over like you do. 

I answer what I want to when I want to. And if I find a question(like yours) to be so utterly stupid that I will not dignify it with an answer, tough shit if that bothers you. 

Whether or not I support Trump is not a part the thread title and he  has nothing to do with the subject being discussed, but since you are so enamored with him, start a thread in his honor.

An easy solution to minimizing your agony over me not answeing your question is as you've been told before, use your ignore feature and refrain from addressing me.

I am not the least bit interested in engaging in your repetitive, childish tantrum over some socially concious young men that you are bent out of shape over being "anti American". Just because 
YOU say they are does not prove that they are, because any retarded imbecile that can't even add 2+2, can stand up and salute a piece of cloth......and not even really know why they are doing so. 

They only know that it's because "someone told them to".


Bottom line is that they are exercising their rights, and if their manner of doing so gets under the skin of more "people" like YOU,  more power to them. 

So yes, I am done talking about this, if YOU want to keep  on doing so, that is your right.

Good luck.


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## Correll (Sep 19, 2018)

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1. I am not racist, you race baiting asshole.

2. Because you know that answering it, will prove my point, that the kneelers are anti-American pieces of shit.




> I frankly do not enjoy typing the same words and repeating myself over and over like you do.



I don't enjoy that. I want the conversation to move forward, but when one side is stonewalling, we are stuck.


I can't NOT type the same words, or point, or I will be letting the dishonest, vile stonewallers win, by letting the point drop.






> I answer what I want to when I want to. And if I find a question(like yours) to be so utterly stupid that I will not dignify it with an answer, tough shit if that bothers you.




Liar. It is not a stupid question and you know it. 



> Whether or not I support Trump is not a part the thread title and he  has nothing to do with the subject being discussed, but since you are so enamored with him, start a thread in his honor.




Of course Trump has nothing to do with this thread. It was a question designed to demonstrate what it means, when you do the OPPOSITE of what is expected of you.

Obviously. 

And that is why you are afraid to answer it.




> An easy solution to minimizing your agony over me not answeing your question is as you've been told before, use your ignore feature and refrain from addressing me.




Meaningless personal attack. 




> I am not the least bit interested in engaging in your repetitive, childish tantrum over some socially concious young men that you are bent out of shape over being "anti American". Just because
> YOU say they are does not prove that they are, because any retarded imbecile that can't even add 2+2, can stand up and salute a piece of cloth......and not even really know why they are doing so.
> 
> They only know that it's because "someone told them to".




That "piece of cloth" is a symbol of this great nation, and it's great people. YOur pretense that you don't know that, is you lying to try to hide the fact that you and your side are supporting anti-Americanism.


Because you are anti-American yourself.




> Bottom line is that they are exercising their rights,




Strawman. NO one has a problem with them exercising their rights. We have a problem with what they are saying, ie that they are disloyal to America and their fellow Americans.





> and if their manner of doing so gets under the skin of more "people" like YOU,  more power to them.
> 
> So yes, I am done talking about this, if YOU want to keep  on doing so, that is your right.
> 
> Good luck.





It does get "under my skin".  And I think society should return the contempt they show US.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 19, 2018)

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And there lies the real truth in your last statement. You ARE a RACIST And you are also a RACE BAITER. More so than you accuse everyone else of being. Because, as you stated "society should return to the contempt that they show US".

Who is "US"?

I've seen white players who support their actions as well. Or in your RACIST mind was it always specifically just the black players that your RACIST view of the world focused on?

It's obvious that the reason for you being  so quick to label people as racists and race baiters is that you see that behavior and mindset in yourself, so you attempt to deflect attention from it, by referring to others as what you really are.



I'm not going to bother addressing the rest of your stupid rant about what you say "WE" don't like, because I am only addressing one RACIST at a time, not a gang of them.

If you are still offended by me not answering your question about "Trump", too bad. He was not the topic, and I refuse to allow you or anyone else to dictate what I discuss. That is a choice that I make.

If you think that a RACIST, who denies being a racist thinks  that I'm "Anti American" bothers me, you're wrong. 

But it appears to bother you, and that's good. If you think whining  incessantly about some football players not saluting the flag proves you to be a "patriot", then you are a very shallow one.

It would be the ultimate of all insults for you to agree with anything that I post.

Now, use your ignore button and go find someone else to bother.


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## Correll (Sep 19, 2018)

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Nope. It is all the kneelers black or white and the owners and League the support them. I've been very clear on that. Repeatedly.


I am judging them on their actions, not their skin color. SO, your claim of racism is just fucking stupid. This is about their anti-Americanism, not their skin color(s).





> I'm not going to bother addressing the rest of your stupid rant about what you say "WE" don't like, because I am only addressing one RACIST at a time, not a group of them.





Cop out.




> And if you are still offended by me not answering your stupid question about "Trump". Too bad.




My pointing out your moral cowardice is not a problem on my end. 

I asked as simple and reasonable question to illustrate a point, and instead of answering it, so we could discuss that point, you made an issue over it.


You refused to answer it, because you know that any real answer for it, would demonstrate how utterly absurd your claim is, that kneeling during the National Anthem is not anti-American.




> And if you think that some stump stupid RACIST asshole saying I'm "Anti American" bothers me, you're wrong. It appears to bother you, and that's good.
> 
> Now, use your ignore button and go find someone else to bother.




1. I'm not a racists, you race baiting asshole.

2. My point in saying that you are anti-American, is not to bother you, but to put the input of Lefties in context.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 19, 2018)

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Yes. You ARE a racist. I've seen enough of them in my lifetime to recognize one. Quickly. And no. I'm not left or right leaning, and have no allegiance to either side. So save your "leftie" political B.S. for someone who will engage in it. Racist.

What else? Are you going to repeat yourself for the umpteenth time yet again?


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## IM2 (Sep 19, 2018)

Correll is still here?


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## Correll (Sep 20, 2018)

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All you are doing, is repeating your bullshit slanderous accusation. 


It repeating only bad, when other people do it, you race baiting asshole?


The point remains. When asked to stand to show respect and loyalty to the Flag and the nation it stands for, these kneelers do the opposite.


It is obvious to everyone with a brain, what that means.


Some people choose to lie about it.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 20, 2018)

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Well, you have an option, you RACIST ASSHOLE. Stop responding to me.
You have repeatedly stated that I am a liar, so as long as you do,  I will continue to refer to you as the RACIST ASSHOLE that you are.

You repeat yourself like a broken record time after time, so that is what you are getting in return.

The POINT that remains is that this is a free country, which means that the citizens of this country are free to protest in a peaceful manner, and if that includes not standing for the anthem, it is what is, and there is no law in existence that revokes citizenship or makes the protestors "Anti American".

Being "asked to stand" is not a "demand to stand". This is not a country under the rule of a dictator.


That's the reality that you're in denial of. And anyone with even HALF a brain can see that. RACIST.


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## Taz (Sep 20, 2018)

Instead of taking a knee, why don't they all take a piss! Now THAT would be SOMETHING!!!


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 20, 2018)

Taz said:


> Instead of taking a knee, why don't they all take a piss! Now THAT would be SOMETHING!!!


That would be breaking the law.  And they would likely be fined or suspended....or both.


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## Votto (Sep 20, 2018)




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## Taz (Sep 20, 2018)

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So they have no balls and will only protest if it doesn't get them into trouble. Got it.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 20, 2018)

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What sense would it make to piss in public? That is against the law. Peaceful protesting means not breaking the law. And by breaking the law, they would lose their platform to protest publically.

*"Urinating in public* is *illegal* in every state. Defendants may be charged under a *law* that specifically criminalizes the *act*, or the prosecutor may allege that the defendant presented a *public* nuisance or is guilty of disorderly conduct. ... Many city and county criminal ordinances also prohibit *public urination*."


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## Taz (Sep 20, 2018)

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They have no balls.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 20, 2018)

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It doesn't require "balls' to piss in public. That requires stupidity.

Would you do it?


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## Taz (Sep 20, 2018)

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I piss in public whenever I have to.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 20, 2018)

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Wow. Are you homeless? Should the posters here set up a GOFUNDME page to get you some help?


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## Taz (Sep 20, 2018)

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Sure, go for it. You can wire me the money. Just not all in fives and tens, okay?


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## Correll (Sep 20, 2018)

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And when they don't stand, and go so far as to do the opposite of standing, it says something.


It says they are anti-American. 



That is the reality that you are in denial of. 


Your insults do not change that, you race baiting asshole.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 20, 2018)

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You insulted me first, and now you want to whine because I returned your gesture? 

Fuck you.

Your opinion is just that. An opinion. It changes nothing, and they ARE NOT "Anti American".

Their protest is a RIGHT, because they ARE AMERICANS. 

That's some "reality" for you to ponder.

You RACIST ASSHOLE.

An open letter from American military veterans in support of Colin Kaepernick


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 20, 2018)

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No problem. Im always ready to help someone "Without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of"

No pun intended.


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## Asclepias (Sep 20, 2018)

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Corral hates looking like an idiot which you just did by stumping him with your answer. He will deflect until he can recover.


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## Correll (Sep 21, 2018)

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I was not :whining" about your insults, just pointing out that they are not a supporting argument, you race baiting asshole.


My opinion is supported by my argument, and their actions. Pretending otherwise is just moral cowardice on your part.


SUre, they have the right to protest. And if they choose to do so, in a way that reveals their anti-Americanism, they should be judged on it, and shunned by decent society.


Fuck you, and your false accusations of racism. I've done nothing to call for that shit. 


I've read the letter. He is making the same mistake you are. THis is not about their right to protest, but about what they are saying, and how they are saying it.


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## Correll (Sep 21, 2018)

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HIs answer was stupid, as I quickly and easily pointed out.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 21, 2018)

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Im not making a mistake, you RACIST ASSHOLE.

The law, is the law. And they are acting within their rights as citizens of this country. And just because they offend
a bigot like YOU, that does not make them wrong.

The open letter that I posted was signed by people who are REAL patriots that put their lives on the line to defend this country.

You are no patriot. What you are is a RACIST ASSHOLE who objects to socially aware black men who are protesting against unarmed black people being killed by law enforcement at a rate that is significantly higher than any other demographic.

That's your problem. And you are using the anthem as a defense mechanism to justify your racist belief system.

You are a shallow and despicable excuse for a human being.
And, you are a RACIST ASSHOLE.


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## Asclepias (Sep 21, 2018)

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Youre reply was a deflection because you were absolutely sure he was going to say the inbreds pictured didnt have a right to protest. I know for a fact you felt like an ass due to your reply. Its your tell. Youre an open book and a moron as well.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

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1. You lefties call anyone that doesn't cow tow to your idiocy a racist, so consider your slurs dismissed, you race baiting asshole.


2. I've not accused them of a crime. YOu lefties keep saying shit like that, because you know that you cannot refute what we actually say, ie that they are anti-American assholes.


3. I don't give a fuck about their skin color, nor the skin color of the non black players that have knelt, nor the skin color of the owners that support them, nor the skin color of the league that supports them. That is shit you made up to support your false accusations of racism, you race baiting asshole.


4. And it is amusing to see you challenge my patriotism. You must be really desperate. I guess you don't really have many tools left once crying "racist" stops working.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 22, 2018)

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ROFLMAO. More of  your  "leftie conspiracy" stupidity. This is not a left/right issue. There are sensible people on both sides, as well as people in the middle who support their right to protest as well as their right to NOT STAND. You see everything that you object to as something to do wth liberals and so called "lefties". 
Silly and childish.

Anyone who can see through your bullshit "fake patriot" facade is a "leftie".

Anyone who can clearly see that your are a RACIST ASSHOLE who is using the anthem and the flag as an excuse to justify your racist beliefs is a "leftie".

You are more "Anti American" than the protestors. Because you're a RACIST ASSHOLE who objects to the black protestors making a peaceful statement. That is what you are offended by, and it is obvious. There are numerous real patriots out there who have gone to war to defend everones right to  protest, which includes not standing if they choose not to. 

And you are not one of those individuals.

What's REALLY amusing here is watching your hysteria over being seen for the fake patriot and and RACIST ASSHOLE that you actually are. That's not anything that I made up. I didn't have to. Your silly and unjustified indignation over a legal and peaceful protest is the proof in what you really are about.

Kind of like shining a flashlight on a cockroach.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

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We were not discussing the right to protest but whether a protest could be "anti-American".


So, his answer was a dodge. 


You are the moron here, not I.


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## Likkmee (Sep 22, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


> #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth *#Solutions
> *
> View attachment 215697
> 
> ...


They're also 32.7 times more likely to choke in a chicken wing from Churches than a non African-American


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## Flash (Sep 22, 2018)

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You are confused Moon Bat.

You have absolutely no "right" to be an asshole in the work place.  That is not covered in the Bill of Rights.  Go look it up.


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## EvilCat Breath (Sep 22, 2018)

Two black guys.  Who cares what they do.


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## MaryL (Sep 22, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> 
> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
> 
> ...


Dolphins  don't have knees. Fins, fins.  Sporting events are not the best forum for political statements. Lets leave  politics out of sports. You are black and make buku bucks, send all the  excess  income too various American  school  counties  that  can use the money instead of blaming racism. Ya think?


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## Asclepias (Sep 22, 2018)

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You fucking idiot. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





"*They have a right to protest*. I can not make it any more clear than that."


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

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NO, it's like a bunch of assholes decided to kneel during the National Anthem, showing disrespect to the Flag and the nation it stands for,


and sensible people noticed their actions and judged them to be, correctly, anti-American assholes,



and a lot of other anti-american assholes are lying for them.


YOu race baiting asshole.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

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> ...




Which was not the topic of the post he replied to. 

He was dodging my point, like a cowardly liberal.


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## Asclepias (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


> Asclepias said:
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You asked him them this question you fucking idiot.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




*"Are you really defending this?*"

Then he said this...

"*They have a right to protest*."

Then you couldnt believe how stupid you looked so you tried to deflect.

*"Would you like to clarify your statement about "all protests"?"
*
Then he said this.
*
"They have a right to protest. I can not make it any more clear than that."*


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

Asclepias said:


> Correll said:
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The question was asked the context of whether a protest could be anti-American, not whether it could or should be illegal.


THus his answer was utterly off topic.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 22, 2018)

MaryL said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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> 
> > NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> ...


Why do you make a connectionbetween them being black and making a lot of money?


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## Asclepias (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


> Asclepias said:
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Nope. You changed the topic the moment you asked him 

*"Are you really defending this?*"

Now if you had said he was off topic before that instead of responding to the question like you did then you would have a case. Since you put your foot in your mouth you appear to be just as much of an idiot as I have come to expect.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

Asclepias said:


> Correll said:
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Nothing in that statement, implies changing the topic to a discussion of legality, or to anything else.


You are lying.


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## Tehon (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


> Asclepias said:
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The right of peaceful protest is guaranteed by the US Constitution. Protesting is inherently American, it is built into our preeminent law, your feelings notwithstanding.

In context we were discussing the right to protest. You tried to make a point and failed miserably. I don't agree with that group or their message but It is not anti American. It is their right guaranteed by the American Constitution.



Tehon said:


> Protesting is not anti American.





Correll said:


> Are you really defending this?





Tehon said:


> They have a right to protest.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Sep 22, 2018)

_“Dolphins players take a knee”_

And the ridiculous right attempts to contrive a ‘controversy’ where none exists, by propagating the lie that lawful, peaceful protest is ‘unpatriotic’ – when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

Indeed, lawful, peaceful protest is the highest act of patriotism.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
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We both agree(d) that they have the right to protest. 

THe discussion had moved on to your claim that "protests are not anti-American".


I posted a picture of some white supremacists protesters, and asked you if you were "defending" them, with your blanket statement that, "protests are not anti-American".


The honest thing for you to do, would be to admit that some protests can be "anti-American".


And then we would have moved the debate forward.


Instead you dodged, by replying to a question, that was not asked, ie was the protest pictured LEGAL.


And now, we are derailed into stupid word games. A common defense by liberals who have lost an argument.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> _“Dolphins players take a knee”_
> 
> And the ridiculous right attempts to contrive a ‘controversy’ where none exists, by propagating the lie that lawful, peaceful protest is ‘unpatriotic’ – when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.
> 
> Indeed, lawful, peaceful protest is the highest act of patriotism.




Like this one?


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## Tehon (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


> The honest thing for you to do, would be to admit that some protests can be "anti-American".


I am being honest. I defended the right of the white supremacists even though I don't agree with their message. It is an American right. It is not anti American.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
> 
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> > The honest thing for you to do, would be to admit that some protests can be "anti-American".
> ...




I did not ask you if it was legal. 

I DID NOT ASK YOU IF IT WAS LEGAL.


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## Tehon (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


> Tehon said:
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How can something that is a basic right, granted by law, be antithetical to the society that grants that right?


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

Tehon said:


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YOu tell me. Do you consider this protest to be healthy for our society?


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## Tehon (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


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Yes, I do. It is instructive.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

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Really? What if they started to gain ground in their goals? Would you like that, or would you have harsh words to say about them?


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## Tehon (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


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I don't feel threatened by them. But that doesn't mean I can't have harsh words to say about them regardless.

If they are doing it out in the open, much the better I think. Then we (society) can have a discussion about it. We can't solve our problems otherwise. Protesting is the act of seeking redress for our grievances. It's healthy.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

Tehon said:


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What kind of harsh words?


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## Tehon (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


> We both agree(d) that they have the right to protest.


Actions speak louder than words.

You say that they have the right to protest but you strive to silence them.


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## Tehon (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


> Tehon said:
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I don't know. They are not the focus of this thread. I wouldn't be calling them anti American though, I can assure you.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
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> > We both agree(d) that they have the right to protest.
> ...





Freedom to protest normally does not extend to the work place. But in this case, their employers have chosen to support their protest.


In a healthy society, the owners and the League, would not want their employees insulting their customers, but, hey, it is their right to do so.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

Tehon said:


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You don't know what kind of harsh words, you would have for a successful white supremacists protest movement?


Seriously? YOu can't image what you might say in that scenario?


LOL!!!!!


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 22, 2018)

Flash said:


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Flash said:


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And YOU are a bat shit crazy wingnut. But, I will take time here to educate you just once. If you don't believe this link. Look it up yourself.

Is it illegal for NFL players to kneel for the anthem?


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Wow. That article does not cover the point about the workplace.


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## Tehon (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


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I don't generally get involved in race related discussions. I don't recall taking part in the discussions surrounding that particular protest when it took place. I'm not familiar with their protest except that it had to do with the removal of statues, I think. I don't really have an opinion on statues.


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## Correll (Sep 22, 2018)

Tehon said:


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Fine. You would be fully supportive of a successful white supremacist protest movement, because it is legal, supportive to the point that you would not have any harsh words to say about them.


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## edward37 (Sep 22, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> 
> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
> 
> ...


WHY?  because the republican party is built on hate


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## Flash (Sep 22, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Nobody said it was illegal you stupid Moon Bat.  You are confused.

However, the employer can set workplace standards.  An employee has no right to break those standards and expect to retain employment.

The shithead American hating Negroes have the right to be assholes.

The owners have the right to set the standards, or not.

The customers of the NFL have the right to not buy the product.  Looking at the decrease in viewership of the games it looks like a lot of people are doing that.

Only a dickhead would support the NFL nowadays.


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## Flash (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


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Of course it doesn't.  Like I have said several times, these Moon Bats are confused.

Being an American hating asshole is not protected in the work place under the Bill of Rights pertaining to free speech.  These Libtards have a hard time understanding things like that.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 22, 2018)

Correll said:


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And? The law protects people in the workplace.

 What employer requires their employees to stand for the anthem?


Flash said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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Im not confused, asswipe. You are. They are protesting within their rights. And truth is that not a single player has been fined or cut for protesting. 

It would not stand up in court.

Viewership may be down; but tune to any channel broadcasting and NFL game, and there are  still 
packed stadiums.


There are far too many wealthy WHITE people making tons of money on the backs of the players for the NFL to be ostracized over players protesting, you dumbass.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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That is a very weak example. One group is looking for equality and the other is after supremacy. You havent given this much thought.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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Far too many of these thickheaded, racist  people speak on this subject emotionally without thinking.

The very thought of these BLACK players having the audacity to protest the way that they are doing makes them rabid to the point of utter stupidity. 

They claim it has nothing to do with race, but anyone who has posted in this forum long enough would have to be in a coma to believe that.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Well it does show a jumbled up state of mind. That kind of comparison makes me question every other statement made on this subject.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Correll said:
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Yes, I did. 

My point is that a "protest" can be anti-American.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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The fans pay for tickets to see players play. They are on the clock when the whistle is blown signaling the start of the game.

Their loyalty should be to the game, and their collective position on a social issue belongs to them personally.

The armchair patriots like you cannot seem to understand that.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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I am American Patriot, who thinks that people who kneel during the National Anthem and their employers who support them are anti-American assholes.


I don't care about the skin color of the people involved. You are the one that keeps bringing that up, not me.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


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YOu have people kneeling during the National Anthem. You think that type of thing would not piss people off? YOu think it is only because of race?


There is nothing "jumbled" about Americans, being pissed off at active Anti-Americanism being expressed during the National Fucking Anthem. 


You moron.


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## Tommy Tainant (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
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I suppose it can. Supremacists marching in torchlight processions is anti american as it undermines "created equal". Sportsmen calling for equality is very American.
There is no relationship between the two groups and it is incedibly insulting to suggest that there is.


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## Flash (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
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Confused Moon Bat.  I feel sorry for your ignorance.  Nobody should have to go through life as dumb and stupid as you apparently are.

The 1st Amendment (protection of free speech), as with the rest of the Constitution, applies to the federal government only although the Supreme Court extended it to the States.

The employer can set workplace standards and fire the shitheads that don't adhere to those standards.  

Now there are a couple of things that are protected.  For instance, an employer can't set a standard that you have to be a Negro to maintain employment.  The 1964 Civil Rights Acts protected Whites from being discriminated against in the workplace by bigoted Blacks.

Setting a standard that you can't exhibit American hating behavior in the workplace is not prohibited in the Bill of Rights.  Go look it up if you don't believe me.   

Too bad the owners of the NFL (with one exception) don't have the courage to fire the filthy Negroes that show disrespect for our flag and our country.  Piss on the filthy ass fans that pay money to fund that disrespect.  

I won't have anything to do the NFL.  Neither do many of my friends.  It is fun entertainment every once in awhile but we are not going to fund bad hateful behavior.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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When they kneel for the Anthem, they are expressing disrespect, disloyalty, and enmity to the fans, ie their customers.


In a healthy society, such behavior would get their asses fired.


BUt the assholes owners sided with the players, instead of their fans, probably based on 1. their own lack of any feeling of patriotism, and 2, their assumption that Americans are used to be shit on, and would not respond in any meaningful fashion.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> Correll said:
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So,, you agree. A protest can be anti-American. Thank you. That was my point.


And of course, nothing in my question suggested any relationship between the two groups, save your bullshit outrage for someone dumb enough to fall for it.




And of course, kneeling during the National Anthem, when standing is done to show pro-Americanism, 


is obviously ANTI-AMERICAN.



HOW they choose to make their protest, says a lot more about them, then their stated intent. 


They are anti-American assholes. FUCK THEM ALL, AND THEIR EMPLOYERS FOR SUPPORTING THEM.


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## Flash (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


> [Q
> 
> BUt the assholes owners sided with the players, instead of their fans, probably based on 1. their own lack of any feeling of patriotism, and 2, their assumption that Americans are used to be shit on, and would not respond in any meaningful fashion.



The owners were chickenshits who were afraid if they stood up to the filthy Negroes disrespecting the flag then that it would result in them losing some money.

The only thing is that for most of the players if they didn't play football then the only job they could get would be flipping burgers somewhere.  

What is going to (and is) happening is that only Black fans will be following the NFL.  The NFL will have alienated much of their fan base.

If that is the business model they want then fine.  They won't be getting my money.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Flash said:


> Correll said:
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I think that they are just used to coddling the players, and thought that the fans would just sit there like bitches and take the disrespect and keep paying and watching. 


Patriotism has been under attack by the Left for a long time. If I had a dollar for every time some moronic asshole leftie quoted "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" at me, I would be a rich man.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Flash said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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You should change your screename from "Flash" to "Molasses", because you are so slow and dimwitted, you racist loon.

Anyone knows what an employer CAN DO in terms of implementing a workplace policy. 

But their ability to legally enforce it could and would be challenged. In case you didn't know it, even students in public schools cannot be legally required to salute the flag. 

Look THAT up.

The so called "filthy negroes" that you refer to are currently not violating any policy nor any law, you filthy piece of white trash.

Lastly where in the 1964 civil rights act was there anything specicically  about whites being protected in the workplace from black people? That law pohibited discrimination based on race, religion and gender and was implemented primarily to keep racist assholes like you from violating the rights of others.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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The vast majority of decent employers support their workforce, dumbass. Especially if they invest millions of dollars in them. And even moreso, they support them in exercising their rights.

This country is not (quite yet) goverened by a tyrannical dictator. Nor is it inhabited by a flock of obedient sheep. That is what freedom is all about.

TV ratings down, team revenues up: have protests really hurt the NFL?


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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The vast majority of employers don't have to deal with their employees, making very insulting and anti-American "speech" to their customers DURING THE FUCKING NATIONAL ANTHEM.


In a healthy society, such behavior would be beyond the pale, and the kneelers would have been fired.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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> > Tommy Tainant said:
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What you are is a fake patriot who wants to piss on the rights of the players who are protesting. That in itself is "Anti American".

And yes, it does further offend you that the majority of the players who are protesting happen to be people who do not look like you.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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WTF? None of them have made any "speeches" they have QUIETLY kneeled and bowed their heads.

So then, this concludes this exchange. This society is not healthy, so you are actually right for a change on that one point.

The players are protesting one of the illnesses in this society and, NOT A SINGLE ONE has been fired. And it is not likely that any will be anytime soon.

Kick rocks.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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1. The players have their right to "speech". THey do NOT have a right to not be judged by that "speech". They are "stated" that they hold their fellow Americans in contempt and enmity. It is right and proper that American society return the favor.


2. Your assumption that I am offended by the skin color of the anti-Americans assholes we are discussing, is just your self serving assumption, and you have done nothing to support it.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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The right to protest is covered under right to free speech.


When they protest they are "saying" something. 


D'uh.



THe kneelers are expressing their anti-Americanism, at a very poorly chosen time. 


IN a healthy society their behavior would have gotten them fired.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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Call it whatever the fuck you want to. When Kaepernick started it he very clearly stated why and never have any of the players publically stated that they "hold all contempt for all Americans", that is YOU who wishes to interpret it that way because of your histrionic personality disorder and your closet racist beliefs.

Just because YOU are offended,everyone else is not, so get over it.


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## Tehon (Sep 23, 2018)

Is this anti American, Correll ?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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And as pointed out to you, they are protesting an illness that exists in this society, and there is nothing "poor" about the time that they chose to do so.

And.......NONE. OF. THEM. HAVE. BEEN. FIRED.

If it bothers you tough shit. Rally some of your fellow wingnuts and start your own franchise.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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He said he could not show respect to America.

And by kneeling, he is showing the opposite of respect, disrespect, to America as a whole.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Is this anti American, Correll ?



 And how about this?


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Is this anti American, Correll ?





I'd want to know why they are pledging allegiance to that oddly colored flag before I judged.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Tehon said:
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> 
> > Is this anti American, Correll ?
> ...




Burning the American flag? Certainly.


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## Tehon (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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> > Is this anti American, Correll ?
> ...


It's a blue lives matter flag.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Tehon said:


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Then no, it is not appropriate to discolor the American flag like that, but it is hardly an intent to state disloyalty to the nation.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

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That is how people like you want to spin it.

Colin Kaepernick Says He is Not Anti-American and Respects the Military


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

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He admits that standing would be to show respect to America.


And that is* why* he refused to stand. 


I am not the one spinning here, you are.


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## Tehon (Sep 23, 2018)

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Intent all boils down to a matter of opinion. Objectively, it is a desecration of the American flag.

Clearly the photo was taken in the midst of a national unity ceremony. What about the people that didn't take off their hats? Taking pictures? Or otherwise looking disinterested? At what point does someone cross the line and upset your fragility?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

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Of course you are. He stated publically that he "Is NOT anti American,  and that he loves America"..

There is more to being pro America than just saluting the flag or singing the anthem.

Any REAL Patriot would know that.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Tehon said:


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The people in this protest were wrong to alter the flag, but their intention was obviously NOT to "desecrate" it, but to co-op it for their specific issue. 


NOt good, but not an expression of disrespect and hostility.


Note that they are indeed, pledging allegiance to their altered American flag, not kneeling to express the opposite.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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His words.



 “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country..."



And he didn't. Again and again, he knelt to show that he felt the opposite of pride in this great nation. 


His walking it back now, is not very convincing.


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## Tehon (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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Objectively, they did desecrate the flag. Which you reduce to subjectivity by appealing to their intent. You say they co-opted a national unity ceremony for their particular purpose. One that we must assume you are at least partially sympathetic to.

On the other hand, we have a situation where there is no objective desecration in kneeling.  The players are co-opting a national unity ceremony for their particular purpose. One we know you have no sympathy for.

The question to determine is why you are sympathetic to one, which is disrespectful by your own admission, and not the other.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

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He is not "walking anything back." Furthermore if you are going to quote him, you should repeat everything that he said. Which included these words"

'I’m not anti-American,’’ “I love America.”

That was in September of 2016. Over 2 years ago.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Tehon said:


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1. Altering something is not the same as desecrating something. 

2. Intent is important. If Kaepernick was kneeling because he had to tie his shoe, and was simply too stupid to know better, I would not be calling him an anti-American asshole.

These people are not expressing disrespect for America nor Americans. 

You show me a statement from them, similar to Kaepernick's where he stated that he was doing what he did because he could not show respect to the flag, and I will reconsider my judgement on them.




> On the other hand, we have a situation where there is no objective desecration in kneeling.  The players are co-opting a national unity ceremony for their particular purpose. One we know you have no sympathy for.



Standing is done during the unity ritual to show respect and loyalty. Kneeling is showing respect and disloyalty. It is not desecrating the flag, it is disrespecting it, and America.

I have no interest in his stated reason for disrespecting America.





> The question to determine is why you are sympathetic to one, which is disrespectful by your own admission, and not the other.





Because the one's intent is not to disrespect America, and the other's is.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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I quoted the relevant part, where he admitted that his actions, ie not standing, was because he was refusing to show pride in America.


Indeed, he went further than not standing, and knelt.


That was what he did. Those are the words that are credible. And the actions.


He walking it back, not credible.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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He is not "walking back" anything. Furthermore, if you are going to quote him, you should repeat EVERYTHING that he has said instead of what personally offends you. 

Which included these words"

'I’m not anti-American,’’ “I love America.”

That was in September of 2016. Over 2 years ago.
And he has put his money where it counts for other Americans who are in need. Again, and again.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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He made the statement that he loved America over 2 years ago when he first refused to stand. THAT is relevant. What you are actually saying is that you quoted what was convenient for justifying your personal objection to his protest. 

That is obvious.


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## Tehon (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


> Standing is done during the unity ritual to show respect and loyalty. Kneeling is showing respect and disloyalty. It is not desecrating the flag, it is disrespecting it, and America.


You never did address the people not standing at attention. People taking pictures, hats on, otherwise occupied. Where is the line of disrespect drawn in your opinion?


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## PredFan (Sep 23, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> 
> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
> 
> ...



You believe it's impossible to have a discussion in a rational way because people disagree with you. you are a typical leftist. "If you disagree with me you are <spins the wheel> Irrational".


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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His actions and his words, and his words, contradict. 


This is common. 


A wise man pays attention to actions. 


He is an anti-American piece of shit.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Tehon said:


> Correll said:
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> > Standing is done during the unity ritual to show respect and loyalty. Kneeling is showing respect and disloyalty. It is not desecrating the flag, it is disrespecting it, and America.
> ...




As I have been saying, with active disrespect.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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His charitable acts of kindness for his fellow Americans who are in need say otherwise.

Calling him "a piece of shit" based on an act of peaceful protest  is anti American and contradicts the principals of what America is all about.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Just because he has not respect for America or Americans, does not mean that he cannot have concern for other groups of people.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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What it means is that he is a charitable and giving  person who helps people in need. It's called "giving back to society".


Not standing for the anthem does not mean that he is anti American. Because he is an American he has that choice.

There are plenty of bad individuals out there who salute the flag


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## Tehon (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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So all the people in the picture holding the wrong flag, holding cameras, hats on, or otherwise not at attention are anti American pieces of shit in your opinion. Good to know.


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## Asclepias (Sep 23, 2018)

Correll said:


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You clown. They have people digging in their noses, scratching their asses, and talking on their phones during the anthem. You just mad because a Black person is protesting. Youre jumbled.


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## Asclepias (Sep 23, 2018)

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Bingo. I was in the military with this dude from Virginia.  He tortured animals and was the biggest so called "patriot" I have ever seen.  At the time I remember telling my sgt that we were going to see him in the news one day over some serial killings.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 23, 2018)

Asclepias said:


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Asclepias said:


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I would venture a guess that he considers these "fine people" to be "better" Americans than the protestors.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

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1. He has that choice.

2. He chose to kneel, because he could not stand to show respect to the Flag and the nation it stands for. Indeed, he felt he had to make sure that no one thought, while he was just standing there, minding his owe business, ignoring the flag he does not respect,

that someone might thing that he was showing respect to the flag, so he took steps, ie kneeling to make sure that no one could mistaking think that he was showing respect to the American Flag.


That is the thought processes and actions of an anti-American, and your denial of that obvious fact is utterly absurd.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Tehon said:


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Correct. THey might be lazy, they might be distracted, they might be ignorant of the rules on flags, 


but they are not intentionally and actively showing disrespect to the flag because they are so opposed to America.



That is where I draw the line. 


It is a pretty generous line. I don't ask much of people.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

Asclepias said:


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Could not care less about the skin color of the various anti-American pieces of shit, involved.


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## Correll (Sep 23, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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You're the one calling them "fine people", not I, nor any of mine.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 24, 2018)

Correll said:


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It was the thoughts and actions of an American expressing his right to peacefully protest. And if not saluting the flag  was his way of protesting, he exercised his rights, which does not make him anti American.

Your refusal to recognize that is the equivalent of and the epitome of moralizing hypocrisy.


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## IM2 (Sep 24, 2018)

Those players are true patriots.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 24, 2018)

Correll said:


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Most of you Trumpers likely would not.....in public. 

But get you all together privately and you would be "high fiving"


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## IM2 (Sep 24, 2018)

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Correll is a liar. He very well may have been in Charlottesville himself.


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## Correll (Sep 24, 2018)

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It is the thoughts and actions of BOTH an American expressing his right to peacefully protest, AND that of an Anti-American, as he felt that, in the process of that protest, he had not make sure that no one thought he might be showing respect to the American Flag and thus America.


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## Correll (Sep 24, 2018)

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## Correll (Sep 24, 2018)

IM2 said:


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FUCK YOU.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 24, 2018)

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I've supported my argument with links to articles regarding this issue that quote exactly what has been said as well as supporting opinions from people who have put their lives on the line for this country.

All that you have done is to refer to  the protestors as "anti American pieces of shit".

 So YOU lost a long time ago.

That aside, nothing was said about them that was "terrible".


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## Correll (Sep 24, 2018)

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And I've pointed out his ACTIONS, supported by his words, that they were done because he could not stand to show respect to this nation. HIS NATION.


His words. HIs actions. 

When a man says contradictory shit, look to his actions.


He kneels when standing is done to show love of country.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 24, 2018)

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One cannot logically exercise their lawful rights as an American and be "anti American" at the same time. That does not even make sense.


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## Correll (Sep 24, 2018)

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Of course it does. 


"ONe"  can exercise his right to free speech and say, " I AM AN ANTI-AMERICAN. I HATE AMERICA".



YOur denial is utterly delusional.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 24, 2018)

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When a man exercises his rights based on the principals of the founders of the nation, those ARE the actions of somone who understands what America is all about.


"The original patriots who risked death and pledged their sacred honor to those truths, for which they are properly honored, even in spite of their serious failures. Now as then, allegiance to those Founding principles is what defines a patriotic American, not whether he or she stands or kneels while an anthem about the flag is performed."

Kneeling for Life and Liberty Is Patriotic - The Atlantic


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## Correll (Sep 24, 2018)

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A man can understand that he has the right to free speech and still hate America, and choose to use that right to express his anti-Americanism.


Your claim otherwise is simple nonsense. 



And if, or when he expresses his anti-Americanism, it is completely right that Patriotic Americans should consider him a piece of shit.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 24, 2018)

Correll said:


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Your interpretation of real patriotism and love of country is your own definition and is based on no fact in history. You are personally offended so therefore you are illogical.


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## Correll (Sep 24, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Patriotism is love of country. That's not my personal definition.


Are you abandoning your crazy position that one cannot use your right to free speech and be anti-American at the same time?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 24, 2018)

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Brave and corageous people who have gone to war for this country have publically supported their right to kneel.

 Any genuine patriotic American who understands the principals that the country was founded on would do so. 

A phony patriot would not.


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## Correll (Sep 24, 2018)

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I do support his RIGHT to kneel, (given the support of his employer)




I've said that hundreds of times by now. 



What part of that is confusing to you?



That does not mean that I have to support what he says, ie his expression of anti-Americanism.



THis is what I have been saying for this entire thread. You have not addressed the crux of my argument.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 24, 2018)

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Love of country is NOT defined only by saluting the flag. Why would I "abandon the truth" and define love of country based on YOUR view of what it means? 

You are a very poor student of real history.


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## IM2 (Sep 24, 2018)

Live of country means you work so your country live up to it's ideals. That is not happening for people of color.


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 24, 2018)

*#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #SOLUTIONS*



IM2 said:


> Live of country means you work so your country live up to it's ideals. That is not happening for people of color.






 
Peace.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 25, 2018)

This has nothing to do with the NFL protest, "Avery".
But since you are fixated on highlighting that black citizens have a child abuse problem, you should at least be fair and acknowledge that child abuse is not confined specifically to one race. 

You are doing a great job of sabotaging your own message. 

Here is a case that made national headlines that you may not be aware of that happened less than 10 miles from my own neighborhood.

And......it did not involve anyone who is Black. 

Start a thread about this.

Inside the House of Horrors: How the Turpin Children's Alleged Torture Escalated Over Time


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## Billo_Really (Sep 25, 2018)

Tommy Tainant said:


> NFL: Colin Kaepernick thanks Miami Dolphins duo for kneeling during anthem
> 
> *Colin Kaepernick has thanked Miami Dolphins duo Kenny Stills and Albert Wilson after they kneeled during the US national anthem on Sunday.
> 
> ...


Civil rights didn't drive racism underground.  Racism exists because we, as a nation, put up with it.  If there was nationwide condemnation of Trump and his minions trying to hijack this protest, racism might start to go away?


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## Correll (Sep 25, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Saluting the flag, or standing for the national anthem, are simple and easy ways to SHOW love of country.



By DOING the opposite the kneelers show, the opposite of love of country.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 25, 2018)

Correll said:


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No they are not. Peaceful protesting has a long history in this country and when the country was founded, it was founded on a set of principals which all revolve around freedom of choice. 
People like you have a right to  disagree with how individuals protest, but that does not make them anti American, and labeling them as such as well as calling them 4 letter word expletives actually makes YOU look anti American.


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## Correll (Sep 25, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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I support the right to speech of Flat Earthers, but I consider them deluded fools.


I support the right to speech of Nambla, but I consider them sick monsters.

I support the right to speech of Satanists but I consider them pathetic mentally ill losers.



Supporting the right to speech of people, does not mean that you have to celebrate those who are speaking, or how they say it.



That you pretend otherwise, is utterly moronic.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 25, 2018)

Correll said:


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I personally do not care what you choose to celebrate at all.
The subject matter here is not related to all of the others whose rights that you claim to support. The point is that the protestors are not anti American "pieces of shit"  as you insist. And, salutong the flag and standing for the anthem is not the only way to express love of country. Your obsession over those gestures and their choice to not participate is what is truly moronic here.


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## Correll (Sep 25, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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The point is that I can support their right to speech, and I do, which is the American thing to do.


While realizing the any AMERICAN that chooses to express anti-Americanism, during the fucking NATIONAL ANTHEM, is a fucking anti-American piece of shit.

The KNEELERS are the ones who made a big deal about the "Gestures" and their choice of whether or how to respond.


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## Asclepias (Sep 25, 2018)

Correll said:


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Fuck the national anthem. I'm not going sing a song some racist made up.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 25, 2018)

Correll said:


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Protesting peacefully, no matter how it's done is a part of "American" culture, and what America stands for. 

The so called "kneelers" do not "hate America". They do not like  what is "happening' in America.

Big difference.

They object to something that is currently happening in America and it makes them no less patriotic, nor does it make them "piec;es of shit".

They are taxpaying citizens who are quietly and legally protesting a wrong that needs correcting.

It does not make them "anti American". 

Shutting them down and forcing them to comply with a ceremonial gesture that makess others like you comfortable is what is 'actually 
"Anti American".


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## Asclepias (Sep 25, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Youre talking to guy with a lot of neanderthal ancestry. Its only anti-american when people that arent white conservatives protest.


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## Correll (Sep 25, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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When they kneel to disrespect the symbol of all of America, they are not distinguishing between All of American and some specific thing that they claim is happening in America.


One can easily imagine a hundred ways they could have protested that specific thing.


Instead, they choose to kneel to disrespect the symbol of ALL OF AMERICA.


They are anti-American pieces of shit.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 25, 2018)

Correll said:


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They are AMERICANS protesting in a way that sends a message regarding the legalized slaughter of men and women who look like them. 

They have a national platform at their disposal, and used it in a legal manner. They burned nothing, destroyed nothing, and hurt no one in the process. 

But they did send an effective message regarding their sentiments.

Their right to protest in the manner that they are doing offends the fragile collective conscience of people like you.

People like you who label THEM as "pieces of shit" are actually the ones who deserve that label.


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## Correll (Sep 25, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Nope. I fully support their right to protest.


It is the manner and timing of their protest, and the message that sends that I have been judging them on.


At a time when Standing is done to show pro-Americanism, they do the opposite. 


Thus they show the OPPOSITE OF pro-Americanism.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 25, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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Their protest of what is happening IN AMERICA has no 'timing" constraints, and is not mandated to be done at a given time to avoid offending anyone. What is so special about the time that they chose?

The answer is nothing. They acted like patriotic Americans by protesting peacefully, damaging nothing, harming no one and sending a message.

Peaceful dissent has a history of being effective in orchestrating change, and is intended to bring controversy and attention to societies wrongs.


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## Correll (Sep 25, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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You see nothing special about "the timing" when that timing is during the National Anthem of the United States of America?


It is an Unity Ritual where by the act of standing up together, Americans affirm their shared bond of being citizens of the same nation, and their loyalty to each other.



YOu, and the kneelers, and those that support them, see nothing special in that, because you don't have any such feeling.


That is the point.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 25, 2018)

Correll said:


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The "feeling" that I have is that I am a tax paying, law abiding citizen of this country, who earned far above the median income of this country before I retired. However, I DO NOT like what I see happening in this country right now.

My own father and 9 blood uncles served in this countries military between the 1930"s through the 1960"s, and every single one of them returned home to be treated WORSE than they were when they served abroad.
So you can save your "patriotic"bullshit lecture.


I have NO loyalty or feeling of "unity" towards those who allow UNARMED people that could potentially be my own family members to be murdered with no repercussions, nor those who allow it to persist.

That does not mean that I don't love the country nor does it mean that the protestors do not either.

Patriotism is not exclusively defined by saluting a flag.

In my own family history it means what you are willing to endure to stay here.

The protestors who are kneeling are using their platform to effect change that is long overdue.

And if it offends people like you in the process.....so be it. It should

They are just as much, if not MORE "patriotic" than you are.


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 25, 2018)

#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth* #SOLUTIONS*

katsteve2012 replied to Avery, 





> *But since you are fixated on highlighting that black citizens have a child abuse problem,*



Hello KatSteve. I am curious to learn if YOU, as well as our peaceful, reasonably responsible American or foreign born neighbors believe Ms. Jazzyslim offers a reasonable explanation why for more than 30 years significant numbers of American urban story-TRUTH-tellers and recording artists have been composing American music art HATEFULLY demeaning and denigrating black or African American girls and women, the MATERNAL HALF of our Nation's black or African American population as untrustworthy, less than human *itches and "hoes" unworthy of respect?

*"Lamenting Multiple Baby Daddies"*


KatSteve, I understand potentially life scarring incompetent, dysfunctional or criminal parenting touches the lives of kids residing in EVERY single American community.

HOWEVER, I cannot and WILL NOT ignore the FACT that for more than thirty years significant numbers of apparent or admitted depressed, emotionally ill American recording artists, as well as American urban story-TRUTH-tellers raised, nurtured and socialized by black or American teen and adult moms of African descent have been composing music art HATEFULLY demeaning and denigrating black or American females of African descent.

Katsteve, something is DEFINITELY AMISS when for decades, from coast to coast, American music performers and significant numbers of American urban story-TRUTH-tellers, including Mr. Barack “My Brother’s Keeper” Obama & Mrs. Michelle "GIRL POWER" Obama's friends and WH guests, are HATEFULLY characterizing their moms, sisters, grandmas, daughters, aunts and nieces as less than human *itches and/or "hoes" unworthy of being treated with basic human respect.

I could understand a few American music performers hating-on females.

Though when large numbers of musically inclined black or American music makers of African descent are hating-on and denigrating females...evidently THERE IS A PROBLEM!

Katsteve, do you AGREE or DISAGREE with this writing?
_____
Originally published by ~jazzyslim2005:

*"On the Couch #4: Black Women Ain't Shi."*


Peace.
____
*American *(Children)* Lives Matter; *Take Pride In Parenting; *End Our National Epidemic of Child Abuse and Neglect*; End Community Violence, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 25, 2018)

#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth *#SOLUTIONS*

katsteve2012 replied to Avery, 





> *But since you are fixated on highlighting that black citizens have a child abuse problem,*



Katsteve, what is your opinion of this Chicago woman's assertions that *MILLIONS *of "savage" CHILD NEGLECTING MOMS are FAILING to protect our Nation's most precious and cherished from sexual predators?

This SALTY LANGUAGE, EXTREMELY NSFW video is filled with genuine human emotion and PAIN.

*"Emotional Woman Wants Her 'TRIFLING SAVAGE' Black Sisters Destroyed!"* ~Chyna Fox


Peace.
____
*American *(Children)* Lives Matter*; Take Pride In Parenting; *End Our National Epidemic of Child Abuse and Neglect*; End Community Violence, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 25, 2018)

#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth *#SOLUTIONS*

katsteve2012 replied to Avery, 





> But since you are fixated on highlighting that black citizens have a child abuse problem,



KatSteve, during a now-deleted November 2016 live conversation with *'Childhood Trauma' (#ACEs) and sexual abuse victim Tommy Sotomayor,* Dr. Oya Maat, Ph.D revealed Tommy shared with his viewers information about Child Abuse she was not aware of.

KatSteve, focusing on the information Dr. Maat revealed about black or American of moms of African descent being the highest number of cases of reported Child Abusers, are you sad, disappointed and perhaps angry that just SIX PERCENT of America's population is responsible for our Nation's highest numbers of reported Child Abuse?
*
'Dr Oya Maat Tommy Sotomayor CHILD ABUSE'*

____
*"Black women are destroying themselves and black men"* ~BlacksUnited - Alexis Erika Published on Mar 7, 2014


Peace.
____
*American *(Children)* Lives Matter;* Take Pride In Parenting; *End Our National Epidemic of Child Abuse and Neglect*; End Community Violence, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 26, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


> #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth *#SOLUTIONS*
> 
> katsteve2012 replied to Avery,
> 
> ...




"Avery", child abuse is an illness that is present in every culture in America.

As I pointed out, it comes in all colors. But you appear to only be interested in highlighting it within the black population, which is a one sided narrative. 

There are far more positive stories out there of black parents who love and mentor their children towards success. I only need to look at my own family and the families of people that I am closely associated with to see that. 

So what is your point here? Are you trying to convey a message within a forum that is made up of a predominately ultra conservative, white and often bigoted audience that the black population of this country is generally  prone to abusive parenting? 

From my observation, that appears to be the case.


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## IM2 (Sep 26, 2018)

And he'll just get to keep doing this because most(not all) of the moderators agree with him. But let the reverse happen and watch the same moderator invade the thread to talk nonsense about group think and shit.


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## Correll (Sep 26, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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It could mean that they don't love their country. From the way you talk of the issue, it certainly sounds like a reason for hate. 


How to tell, if their anger has poisoned their love of country and turned it to hate?



Well, lets look at what they do during the National Anthem when they have a chance to demonstrate how they feel.


MMMMMM.


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 26, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> AveryJarhman said:
> 
> 
> > #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth *#SOLUTIONS*
> ...



#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth *#Solutions*

Hello Katsteve. As I've told you many times...I am focused on finding solutions for improving the Quality of Life for black or American newborns, infants, toddlers, children and teens of African descent who, *THRU NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN,* are irresponsibly introduced to a potentially life scarring child and teen upbringing depriving them of experiencing a SAFE, fairly or wonderfully happy American kid childhood that all Americans ahve a right, as well as *ABSOLUTE NEED* to enjoy during a critical period of human childhood development.

Katsteve, when you offer an intelligent reply to these three questions, I'll consider taking you seriously:

Dolphins players take a knee

Dolphins players take a knee

Dolphins players take a knee

Peace.



___
*American *(Children's)* Lives Matter;* Take Pride In Parenting; End Our National Health Crisis; Child Abuse and Neglect; End Community Violence/Fear, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 27, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


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There are no questions from you in the below 3 links. They all are dialogue between posters that do not include you, so what questions are you referring to?

If you are in fact "serious" about helping finding solutions to secure a better childhood experience for black children, why do you avoid posting examples of black children who are actually living that experience?

I can give you countless examples of many that I know within my own family and families that I know.

Are you black? And did you experience the trauma that you claim to be rampant within black families?


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## IM2 (Sep 27, 2018)

White racism against blacks is a trauma all blacks face. If AJ cannot recognize this, he is incapable of helping blacks.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 27, 2018)

Correll said:


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I do not hate America. But I do not like what is happening in some parts of it. And if the protestors feel the same way, they have a platform upon which to protest  peacefully. 

Which is is what they are doing. Not standing does not equate to hate or anti Americanism. 

And assuming that it does is narrow minded point of view that does not align with the founding principals of the country.


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 27, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> There are no questions from you in the below 3 links. They all are dialogue between posters that do not include you, so what questions are you referring to?



Hello katsteve. I posted the wrong links...my apologies.

Katsteve, when you offer an intelligent reply to these three questions, I'll consider taking you seriously:

Dolphins players take a knee

Dolphins players take a knee

Dolphins players take a knee

Peace.
___
*American *(Children's)* Lives Matter*; Take Pride In Parenting; End Our National Health Crisis; Child Abuse and Neglect; End Community Violence/Fear, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 27, 2018)

IM2 said:


> White racism against blacks is a trauma all blacks face. If AJ cannot recognize this, he is incapable of helping blacks.



 

Peace.


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## IM2 (Sep 28, 2018)

White racism against blacks is a trauma all blacks face. If AJ cannot recognize this, he is incapable of helping blacks.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


> #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth *#SOLUTIONS*
> 
> katsteve2012 replied to Avery,
> 
> ...




Millions? Really? Until there is fact based statistical information to support this blanket assumption it is nothing more than exactly that. An assumption that denigrates black females as generally being unfit to be parents.

You're sending a mixed message here "Avery" one mintute you are critical of rap and hip hop performers putting out music that speaks negatively of black women which I can understand in agree with. But then you turn around and in the same post and are for the most state that black women generally are failures as parents. 

You are a living contradiction, and don't really appear to be doing anything more than perpetuating stereotypes about the black population in general.


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## Correll (Sep 29, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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Have you ever stood for the National Anthem?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

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Of course I have,. In school and  in sports as a participant and as a spectator.


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## Correll (Sep 29, 2018)

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So have I. Look we do have something in common.

Sort of the point. 


Do you wish for the best for America as a whole, and as many Americans as possible?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

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Of course I do. I have an adult son and daughter and I have 3 grandchildren. Of course want them and all of the next generation to thrive and most of all be safe.

My  wife and I were blessed with opportunities and I want the same for them as well.


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## Correll (Sep 29, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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I want that for you and your descendants too.


Do you wish the same for my descendants?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

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Again. Yes I hope your decendents do well and are succesful.


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## Correll (Sep 29, 2018)

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Seems like we have a common goal, and a bond formed about being members of a group organized for self protection and shared benefit. 

ie the nation.



I consider this a very, very good thing. 


Do you?


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

Correll said:


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I would agree on that point.


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## Correll (Sep 29, 2018)

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When I stand for the FLag, that it they type of thing I think of, or more "feel".


I always thought that was the type of thing that everyone who stood for the flag was thinking.

Indeed, that that was what standing for the flag was supposed to express.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

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Those that are not standing feel that way to. The ptotest does not m
ean that they dont want America as theiir home or that they wish the worst for the country. I know several people who are former players as well as some current players and I know some men who coached in the NFL. And what I have heard from all of them is that they viewed  it as a way to send a message regarding "Liberty and Justice for all."

But not a single person that I know hates America or it's citizens. All these people do charitable work, mentor kids of all types and give back to their communities, and are grateful that they can.


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## Correll (Sep 29, 2018)

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I hear people call republicans "nazis: all the time now. 


Why would such people want the best for "nazis"? That does not make sense.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

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I have not mentioned nazis. Not sure what you mean.


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## Correll (Sep 29, 2018)

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If lefties believe HALF the shit you/they say about us conservatives, it is hard to believe that you wish us well.


And then you go and support this kneeling during the National Anthem.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

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1. I support their protest because it is peaceful and it is a right that they have.

2. Feel free to show a single post where I have compared conservatives to "nazis". I do not hold grudges or wish anything bad to anyone based on their political beliefs.

3. I am not a so called "leftie" as you want to  insist that I am.


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## Correll (Sep 29, 2018)

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1. I support their right to protest. I judge them, on what they say and when they say it, as anti-Americans assholes.


2. You might not have said "nazi", but you've said enough. 


3. What about you, is not.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

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1. And what have I said? State it verbatim or find a post of what I said.

2. I know some of the ones who have protested and they are not anti american

3.
Im not on the left or the right. Truthfully I think both sides have some people who are good and bad. However, I have seen you say some very unpleasant things about those on the left. So what about that? You certainly do not wish them well.
I do not have enough faith in this countries political system to "choose a side". They need to learn how to work together for the good of the country, and until I see that happening, which likely will not happen in my lifetime, I will remain an independent.

What else?


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## IM2 (Sep 29, 2018)

I read posts from all these whites who are anti government mad about paying taxes and ungrateful for what this nation has given to them in amounts that far exceed what we as blacks have ever seen. Yet these same people tell us how we should be grateful. Katsteve you are far too kind in ever discussing things with that idiot correll.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> I read posts from all these whites who are anti government mad about paying taxes and ungrateful for what this nation has given to them in amounts that far exceed what we as blacks have ever seen. Yet these same people tell us how we should be grateful. Katsteve you are far too kind in ever discussing things with that idiot correll.



Well. At least I can say he had his opportunity to be heard, IM2. Everyone gets one chance with me..lol.


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## IM2 (Sep 29, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > I read posts from all these whites who are anti government mad about paying taxes and ungrateful for what this nation has given to them in amounts that far exceed what we as blacks have ever seen. Yet these same people tell us how we should be grateful. Katsteve you are far too kind in ever discussing things with that idiot correll.
> ...



You're doing the right thing. I tried but I couldn't keep going.


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 29, 2018)

#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #Solutions

katsteve2012 replied to Avery, "You're sending a mixed message here "Avery" one mintute you are critical of rap and hip hop performers putting out music that speaks negatively of black women which I can understand in agree with."

katsteve2012, once again you FAIL to recognize my writings CRITICIZE a large population of American girls and women who for more than thirty years significant numbers of American urban story-TRUTH-tellers have been HATFULLY denigrating as bitches and HOES.

Frankly after spending twelve years of my life as a Brooklyn, NY cop, regular witnessing large numbers of apparent SELFISH, immature, apathetic, "living wild", emotionally or mentally ill American moms INTENTIONALLY introducing our Nation's most precious and cherished assets to an UNHEALTHY, traumatic, potentially life scarring childhood and teen upbringing fraught with Struggles, PAIN, Hardships, COMMUNITY FEAR, Frustrations, Uncertainty, Depression, Sorrow, Sadness, Torment, Demeaning Government Handouts, Resentment, HATE and COMMUNITY VIOLENCE...

...I CANNOT and WILL NOT disagree or criticize America's population of urban story-TRUTH-tellers, including President and Mrs. Obama friends or WH guests, for composing music HATEFULLY denigrating black or American girls and women of African descent as less than human creatures and HOES or THOTS undeserving of being treated with basic human respect.

Katsteve, the fact YOU continually refuse to offer an intelligent reply to the following two questions, assures me you agree with the urban-truth-tellers, many who *THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN, *are VICTIMS of potentially life scarring SYSTEMIC and GENERATIONAL CHILD ABUSE, aka GENERATIONAL POVERTY.

Katsteve, when you decide offer an intelligent reply to these TWO questions that you repeatedly decline to reply to, I'll consider taking you seriously and viewing you as a caring fellow citizens genuinely interested in improving the Quality of Life for our American neighbors of color.

Dolphins players take a knee

Dolphins players take a knee

Peace.


 
*___
American *(Children's)* Lives Matter;* Take Pride In Parenting; End Our National Health Crisis; Child Abuse and Neglect; End Community Violence/Fear, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations


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## IM2 (Sep 30, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


> #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #Solutions
> 
> katsteve2012 replied to Avery, "You're sending a mixed message here "Avery" one mintute you are critical of rap and hip hop performers putting out music that speaks negatively of black women which I can understand in agree with."
> 
> ...



After working 32 years in the hood asking he people why these things happen, I can tell you that what you just said is so far off base that it qualifies for insanity. Start posting intelligent posts then maybe you'll get intelligent responses. I've worked with black police and they don't see things like you. You're part of the problem, the house boy who wants to impress whites by showing he can be "hard" on blacks. What solutions did you bring to the damn table? Those blacks you always post pictures of talk about blacks starting business, black community and economic development, youth programs and ways to be more self reliant. They talk but not asking whitey for shit. They talk about us spending our dollars in our communities.  You ignore a major trauma all blacks face to spam nonsense all the time. STFU, you do us no good as black people.


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## Correll (Sep 30, 2018)

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1. You've called me a "Racist asshole" for disapproving of the kneeling, a position shared by over half the nation. If over hafl the nation, is in your eyes, "racist assholes", then why do you wish them well, and consider yourself loyal to them?


2. If they are not anti-American, then they should consider standing during the National Anthem. Because kneeling sends the message of anti-Americanism.


3. There are a lot of unpleasant things about the left that need discussed. Their constant use of false accusations of racism, is one of the big ones, like you keep doing in this thread.


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## katsteve2012 (Sep 30, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


> #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #Solutions
> 
> katsteve2012 replied to Avery, "You're sending a mixed message here "Avery" one mintute you are critical of rap and hip hop performers putting out music that speaks negatively of black women which I can understand in agree with."
> 
> ...



Here is  what I refer to as a mixed message, when you quoted me, you conveniently left out that I also stated that while you are critical of some rappers for "denigrating black women" , you also in the same message portray black women as failed parents and blame them for a generational cycle of child abuse. So if you decide to quote me, at least quote my entire statement instead of just half of it.


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## Asclepias (Sep 30, 2018)




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## Asclepias (Sep 30, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> AveryJarhman said:
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Why doesnt he complain about how white men denigrate white women and portray them as hookers?


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 30, 2018)

IM2 asked Avery Jarhman, *"What solutions did you bring to the damn table?"*

Hello, IM2. according to your writings on the USMB, there are no problems in black America.

So why are you asking for solutions?
*_____*​
IM2, can we KEEP it REAL? During this live broadcast, Oshay Duke Jackson, creator and CEO of Negro Manosphere Home Page - Negro Manosphere - www.negromanosphere.com, as well as Mr. LARMovement and Mr. Donavon Sharpe, two contributing members to the Negromanosphere, engage in a public discussion about interracial dating and black women's lack of femininity.

IM2, I listened to every minute of this Friday, September 28, 2018, 3:12:36 live broadcast during which these gentlemen spoke with callers to the show, many who are black women dancing around the show's topic, "Why Is Everybody So Mad When Black Men Date White Women? (The Brother Pill Podcast)" Oshay Vlogcast Channel Streamed live on Sep 28, 2018.

IM2, beginning at *2:34:13,* I'm sharing with you what I view as highlights of an information-packed discussion, including comments offered by a black American mom, who at* 2:46:16* speaks about black women's anxiety, as well as her belief that worldwide, black women are viewed in a negative light.


IM2, During this broadcast Mr. LARMovement, shares his usual common sense, wisdom and knowledge that I'm certain you, as well as other USMB members will not agree with.

I'm also fairly certain if you and others do listen to these free-thinking, successful, accomplished American men sharing their thoughts, concerns and opinions, you and other USMB members will view them as Coons, Sell-Outs and Uncle Toms for speaking their truths.

IM2, tell me I'm lying.
____
Please consider *SUBSCRIBING *to and supporting the YT channels and other public platforms where the above American men share their thoughts, concerns and experience.

Peace.


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## AveryJarhman (Sep 30, 2018)

Asclepias said:


> View attachment 219463


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## katsteve2012 (Oct 1, 2018)

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1. Go back and read the thread. And you will see that it was you who started the namecalling first.

2. See the following article on the protests. It is a divided opinion nationally on whether it is unpatriotic or not. 

Majority of voters say NFL players kneeling is not unpatriotic

3. There are undersireable aspects to both sides. And neither side is a glowing example of honesty and integrity. 
To tell a one sided narrative favoring one side is neither objective or fair.


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## katsteve2012 (Oct 1, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


> IM2 asked Avery Jarhman, *"What solutions did you bring to the damn table?"*
> 
> Hello, IM2. according to your writings on the USMB, there are no problems in black America.
> 
> ...



You are wrong "Avery". IM2 has never stated that "there are no problems in Black America. In fact, he has mentioned how he has helped resolve problems and what he pointed out is that OTHER demographics in America have problems as well.

What YOU have done is to ONLY point out the negative in black Americans and not made a positive statement at all.


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## IM2 (Oct 1, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


> IM2 asked Avery Jarhman, *"What solutions did you bring to the damn table?"*
> 
> Hello, IM2. according to your writings on the USMB, there are no problems in black America.
> 
> ...



I am a free thinking, successful and accomplished black American man. I have contributed to solutions that have reduced problems and created opportunities in the black community. What have you done? And I'm not going to consider subscribing to sellout TV.


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## Asclepias (Oct 1, 2018)

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Why do you only have Black people on there when whites routinely molest their children?


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## AveryJarhman (Oct 2, 2018)

#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth #Solutions

katsteve2012 replied to Avery,_* "What YOU have done is to ONLY point out the negative in black Americans and not made a positive statement at all."*_

Hello, Katsteve. When you decide to reply to these THREE questions that you repeatedly decline to offer an intelligent reply to, I'll consider taking you seriously and viewing you as a caring fellow citizens genuinely interested in improving the *Quality of Life *for our American neighbors of color.

Dolphins players take a knee

Dolphins players take a knee

Dolphins players take a knee

Peace.

​___
*American *(Children's)* Lives Matter; *Take Pride In Parenting; End Our National Health Crisis; Child Abuse and Neglect; End Community Violence/Fear, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations


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## Papageorgio (Oct 2, 2018)

The entire Dolphins team to a knee for the whole game against the Patriots.


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## AveryJarhman (Oct 2, 2018)

#TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth *#Solutions*

IM2 replied to Avery, _*"I am a free thinking, successful and accomplished black American man. I have contributed to solutions that have reduced problems and created opportunities in the black community. What have you done?"*_

Hello, IM2. What Have I done to help improve my fellow citizen's Quality of Life?

Before fleeing/abandoning/transferring from Brooklyn's Bedford Stuyvesant community due to concerns for my physical safety, as well as emotional well being, I spent near-twelve years of my life attempting to protect fellow citizens from being emotionally and/or physically harmed (or worse) by a significant population of apparent emotionally or mentally ill, SUICIDAL, HOMICIDAL AMERICAN BORN TERRORISTS who were raised, nurtured and socialized by a significant population of SELFISH, immature, apathetic teen and adult American moms who more than a dozen President and Mrs. Obama Urban-TRUTH-teller friends HATEFULLY denigrate as less than human bitches and HOES or THOTS undeserving of being treated with basic human respect.

Sadly, when they were children and teens, most all of the people appearing in the following video do not have the option of packing up their belongings and moving to another community when they believe their minds are being affected in ways that are not healthy for them.

*"Respect Life" - Season 3 - Episode 1*


MY BROOKLYN, NY ROOKIE COP IGNORANCE

Peace.

​___
*American *(Children's)* Lives Matter*; Take Pride In Parenting; End Our National Health Crisis; Child Abuse and Neglect; End Community Violence/Fear, Police Anxiety & Educator's Frustrations


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## katsteve2012 (Oct 2, 2018)

AveryJarhman said:


> #TheLargerIssue #Fatherlessness #ChildNeglectMaltreatment #MentalHealth *#Solutions*
> 
> IM2 replied to Avery, _*"I am a free thinking, successful and accomplished black American man. I have contributed to solutions that have reduced problems and created opportunities in the black community. What have you done?"*_
> 
> ...



Ok, "Avery". That is  what you did "then". What have you done since "fleeing, abandoning, transferring", to contribute to helping these "poor people" who are so "troubled" due to the non stop assault on them by "profane rappers" and "dysfunctional mothers"?

Maybe someone wil take YOU seriously when you answer THAT question.


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## Correll (Oct 2, 2018)

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1. Yep. Dolphins players take a knee

You called me a "fool", "arrogant" and "ignorant".  I mostly let it pass, at that time. 


2. Wow. Those were some slanted questions. THey included the conclusion in the question, that was an utter shit poll. My question stands. Over half the country, is in your view, "Racist assholes",  so why do you wish them well, and feel loyal to them?

3. Sure. And on this issue, the dems/libs are the ones that need called on their bullshit, ie open anti-Americanism.


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## katsteve2012 (Oct 2, 2018)

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1. As I stated previously, you started the namecalling first. That is not usually something that I resort to unless it is in response to being called a name. And when I am, the gloves are off.

2. I do not feel that "over half the country" are "racist assholes" because obviously I have personally spoken to over half the country, and never will. I judge based on what I am told by individuals. I have spoken to a number of people who disagree with the protestors, but DID NOT take their disagreement to the point of referring to them as "Anti American(expletives) as you did. At least they kept their difference of opinion at a level of respect that was was worthy of respect in return. That being said, I do not wish anything bad upon anyone, who does nothing to me personally.

3. And while there maybe SOME on the left that should  be called out, there are also some on the right that should be as well. There is no political party that has a monopoly on decency and  honesty.


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## Correll (Oct 2, 2018)

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1. As I linked to, you started the name calling.

2. Over half the country has a position  you called me a "Racist asshole" for having. 

3. And this is a time to call out dems, for their support of anti-American pieces of shit, and constant use of false accusations of racism.


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## katsteve2012 (Oct 2, 2018)

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1. The link that you attached did not reveal any name calling by me. As I recall, you became irritated over my refusal to answer a "bait" question regarding would I stand to show support of Trump and name called first.

2. What part of me having not spoken to the "half of America, that you believe shares your view do you not understand? I would not refer to people that I've never had a conversation with as racist assholes. What makes you so certain that all of them would refer to the protestors as "anti American pieces of shit"? Most people that I've spoken to who disagree, express their views with far more diplomacy.

3. As far as "Dems" being called out". It is obvious that you believe that everyone on the right is above reproach. In my lifetime, I have never seen so many criminals in one administration as there are now. Led by a president who has made a number of racist and mysoginstic statements.

The right is no better than the left. Both are equally corrupt.
Your thinking is one sided.


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## Correll (Oct 2, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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1. What's a "bait question"? I was making a point, you saw it coming, and played dodge, instead of answering.

2. They hold a view that you called me a "racist asshole" for holding. And they are half the country. It is not credible for you to be loyal and well wishing for people that you consider "Racist assholes".

3. a. I've often "reproached" those on the right, including those in the current administration, when they actually deserve it.

3b. Those "racist and mysoginistic" statements are lefty lies about what he actually said. That you choose to believe, when you should know better.


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## katsteve2012 (Oct 2, 2018)

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1. No need to "dodge" anything from a complete stranger. I am not an infant and do not have to respond to analogies in order to discuss a topic that is perfectly clear to me. 

2. Delivery of an obection to a protest can sound pompous, judgemental, and narrow minded. For the 4th time, I have spoken to people who disagree without resorting to referring to any protestor as an "anti American piece of shit". It is PERFECTLY credible to wish well for someone who has a tone of civility over what they disagree with. For you to pretend that it is not is abnormal.

3. You certainly have not "reproached" anyone that I've seen on the right....unless they do not share your rabid hatred of the "left"

4. Trump has made comments that are offensive to minorities and women. Unless he has an "evil twin" who impersonates him or you are just blindly loyal to public ignorance, it is amazing that you could deny that he has.


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## Correll (Oct 2, 2018)

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1. Never said you HAD to do anything. I was trying to make a point, that you seemed to be actively hiding from, and you saw it coming and played dodge instead.

2. They are kneeling during the National Anthem. Their message is clear, and they do not deserve to be treated with civility that do not show US.

3. Sure I have. Hell, go back to the election, and you can see me reproaching a lot of those on the right.

4. NO, he didn't. The media lied to you. You trusted the wrong people.


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## katsteve2012 (Oct 3, 2018)

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1. I understood your 'point" from the beginning. And was not dodging anything. Redundancy through irrelevant analogies is not necessary and are a waste of time to even respond to.

2. Their message is communicated through a peaceful protest. And yes they DO deserve fair treatment by law. Those who take a personal offense  and wish to label them as anti American have the option of ignoring them.

3. As far as the election goes....if that is what you really think, then that's your right to believe what you think you may have said. Feel free to provide an example if you wish.

4. This is not a matter of trust. I don't really trust anyone. But you are more than welcome to believe that every offensive statement ever made by #45 is really a carefully crafted lie, but I doubt that you can actually prove it.


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## Correll (Oct 3, 2018)

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1. Of course you understand it. THat is why you refused to answer the question. And considering how much time we've wasted talking about how you refused to answer the question, your stated concern about not wasting time, is not credible.

You dodged and hide.


2. And their message includes a massive does of anti-Americanism. No one is talking about law. I've repeatedly agreed they have the right to do what they did. I do have the option to ignore them. I also have the option to condemn them for their anti-Americanism. And so does society as a whole.

3. Sure. I though the mainstream republicans were assholes for the way they tried to block Trump, and said so, very harshly often.


4. Let's start with your favorite. Give me your favorite example, and I will show how it is a vile, divisive lie.


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## katsteve2012 (Oct 3, 2018)

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> > Correll said:
> ...



1. You are obsessed to the point of absurdity with convincing yourself that I "dodged" your question. After I have made it clear that the question was irrelevant to the topic, therefore, it was not even worthy of my time.  There is no reason for me to dodge anyone in an anonymous forum.



2. You have several options regarding the protestors. But your options and views are yours, and they do not make you correct.

3. You likely did reproach some Republicans over their treatment of another Republican. Which is not even a point. They as a party are no better of less corrupt than Democrats.

4. You claim that everything said about Trump is lie by the left.....so YOU name one.


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## AveryJarhman (Oct 10, 2018)

Asclepias said:


> Why do you only have Black people on there when whites routinely molest their children?



Hello, Asclepias. Please forgive me for not replying sooner.

Asclepias, when writing about "Black people" are you including a LARGE population of apparent slow-to-evolve, freedom-loving "Pro Black, Woke or Conscious Black Community" minded American citizens, ILLOGICALLY believing they have a right, as well as duty to LOUDLY and HATEFULLY demean, denigrate, bully, taunt, harass, and in some instances threaten with violence, our successful, accomplished black or American friends, neighbors and co-workers of African descent?

"Sell-out" "C^^n" and "Uncle Tom" are just a few HATEFUL, denigrating terms "Pro Black or Conscious Black Community" American citizens use to LOUDLY demean and intimidate our accomplished, successful black or American friends, neighbors and co-workers of African descent choosing to peacefully pursue *THEIR OWN* unique vision for L, L, (Love) & Happiness.


​
Peace.


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