# Zeppelin versus Sabbath?



## manifold (Apr 3, 2008)

Which band do you think has a bigger influence on new music today?


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## Steerpike (Apr 3, 2008)

Probably Black Sabbath.  Zeppelin was huge, of course, but I bet more metal bands can trace musical roots to Sabbath.  Not just bands like Candlemass or old ones like St. Vitus, but across the board.


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## manifold (Apr 3, 2008)

Steerpike said:


> Probably Black Sabbath.  Zeppelin was huge, of course, but I bet more metal bands can trace musical roots to Sabbath.  Not just bands like Candlemass or old ones like St. Vitus, but across the board.



I agree.

Throughout the 80's Zeppelin's influence reigned supreme.  But from grunge forward, I hear Sabbath influences more than any other.


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## Shogun (Apr 3, 2008)

Sabbath is the root of all things metal.  


your question reminds me of the ole "which is the greatest rock band: the rolling stones or the beatles"


the answer, of course, being the stones since the beatles were a pop band making hits while the stones were stealing American blues.


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## manifold (Apr 3, 2008)

Shogun said:


> Sabbath is the root of all things metal.



That goes without saying.

But I didn't qualify the question as metal only.


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## Shogun (Apr 3, 2008)

eesh.. I was hoping that would suffice since I can't decide.



My conundrum lately has been which is the greater musical genius: Stevie Wonder or Willie Nelson.  my first instinct is to say Stevie.. but then I listen to the Red Headed Stranger album by willie and take a gander at the list of songs he wrote.


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## manifold (Apr 3, 2008)

Shogun said:


> eesh.. I was hoping that would suffice since I can't decide.
> 
> 
> 
> My conundrum lately has been which is the greater musical genius: Stevie Wonder or Willie Nelson.  my first instinct is to say Stevie.. but then I listen to the Red Headed Stranger album by willie and take a gander at the list of songs he wrote.




That's actually a tough call.

But as long as we can all agree that U2 sucks donkey balls and Bono suffers from a messiah complex, then I think we'll have made real progress.


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## Shogun (Apr 3, 2008)

manifold said:


> That's actually a tough call.
> *
> But as long as we can all agree that U2 sucks donkey balls and Bono suffers from a messiah complex, then I think we'll have made real progress. *



I have just gained a new level of respect for you, dude!  I've ALWAYS hated that band.  The Edge?  gimme a break...  The Suck is more like it.


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## Gunny (Apr 3, 2008)

manifold said:


> Which band do you think has a bigger influence on new music today?



You would have to define "new music today."  What genre?  LZ was by far the more popular band, but I really wouldn't classify them in the same genre as Black Sabbath.  Zeppelin was more of a druggie-head music type band with some metal than heavy metal.   Their style of music, IMO, was in its heyday then and they were just one of the best at it. 


Sabbath was more of an early heavy metal band.  You didn't put on the Sabbath LP to mellow out in the corner.  Most of their stuff is good to work out on the heavy bag to.


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## Gunny (Apr 3, 2008)

Shogun said:


> Sabbath is the root of all things metal.
> 
> 
> your question reminds me of the ole "which is the greatest rock band: the rolling stones or the beatles"
> ...



I disagree.  The Beatles made rock music what it is today.  They trasnformed the genre from 50s-60s American pop to drug influenced heavy rock.

The Stones, IMO, are the flipside.  They started out racier than the Beatles, but end up a pop band in the 80s. 

I DO think they are a better inter-genre comparison than Zeppelin and Sabbath. 

Whereabouts in there would you toss The Who?  They were pretty badass until someone told Roger Daltrey he could act.


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## Gunny (Apr 3, 2008)

manifold said:


> That's actually a tough call.
> 
> *But as long as we can all agree that U2 sucks donkey balls and Bono suffers from a messiah complex*, then I think we'll have made real progress.


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## onedomino (Apr 3, 2008)

GunnyL said:


> I disagree.  The Beatles made rock music what it is today.  They trasnformed the genre from 50s-60s American pop to drug influenced heavy rock.
> 
> The Stones, IMO, are the flipside.  They started out racier than the Beatles, but end up a pop band in the 80s.
> 
> ...


I agree regarding the Beatles, and even though _Sgt Pepper_ came out before I was born, I can play it today and it still sounds brand new. I find it hard to categorize The Who other than to say that their best work is very original. I find little derivative about _Who's Next,_ and _Quadraphenia_ towers about most contemporary music. The Stones..._Exile on Main Street_ is simply some of the best Rock/Blues music ever created.


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## Gunny (Apr 4, 2008)

onedomino said:


> I agree regarding the Beatles, and even though _Sgt Pepper_ came out before I was born, I can play it today and it still sounds brand new. I find it hard to categorize The Who other that to say that their best work is very original. I find little derivative about _Who's Next,_ and _Quadraphenia_ towers about most contemporary music. The Stones..._Exile on Main Street_ is simply some of the best Rock/Blues music ever created.



I actually listen to all four groups (5 if you include The Who) regularly.  I honestl don't think there is a real comparison here beyond a matter of personal preference.  I woudl further add that personal preference is sometimes dictated by memories -- the times and events that surrounded certain music.  It's hard for people from different generations to relate to the tastes of those that preceeded/followed them.

Not having a real idea of anyone's age in this thread, I find it interesting in and of itself that people I KNOW (especially if you were born after Sgt Pepper - braggart) are from different generations can actually appreciate the same music from the same groups.  THAT, to me, is what makes each of the groups mentioned great in their own right -- that they transcend time.  

Face it, most groups belong to an era and are stuck there.  You can take Zeppelin, Sabbath, the Stones and the Beatles and stand them up against today's music.  

As far as Manifold is concerned -- he can take U2 and stand them up against a wall with blindfolds.  Probably ought to negrep him for defiling his own thread by even including them.


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## Toro (Apr 4, 2008)

GunnyL said:


> I disagree.  The Beatles made rock music what it is today.  They trasnformed the genre from 50s-60s American pop to drug influenced heavy rock.



That's true BUT this is a Zeppelin v Sabbath thread.

Ozzy said that the Beatles were the biggest influence on him.

I'd say Sabbath, but maybe that's because I liked them better.  But I think they had more influence in heavy metal than Zeppelin.


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## jillian (Apr 4, 2008)

As much as they were derivative, unoriginal and some say they actually stole a lot of their material, I think Zeppelin had far more influence on the people who followed.

Am I right? Dunno.... but it's my opinion on the subject.

As for innovation... but for the Beatles and Paul McCartney, we wouldn't even have lead guitarists.


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## Shogun (Apr 4, 2008)

GunnyL said:


> I disagree.  The Beatles made rock music what it is today.  They trasnformed the genre from 50s-60s American pop to drug influenced heavy rock.
> 
> The Stones, IMO, are the flipside.  They started out racier than the Beatles, but end up a pop band in the 80s.
> 
> ...





You know.. I always did like seeing Roger pop up in television.  Ever catch the Highlander series?  good stuff.  Behind Blue Eyes is still one of my favorites.  Roger may have been a mediocre actor but some of his music was a little thin too.  Boris The Spider?  eesh.  I'm glad I missed that Mod era of british music.


Now, I totally disagree about the beatles and the stones..  The beatles were to their decade what 'nsinc is to this one.  If they hadn't been caught up in a hippy tidal wave (that began regardless of them, no less) then the beatles would have become the new kids on the block of the 60s.  Indeed, they became more real after they discovered the drugs but you can't tell me that "i wanna hold your hand" is not a pop tune.

the stones, while they did "roll with the flow" when it came to musical fads later on, were always entreanched in strait up blues oriented rock.  Beatles songs are not rock anthems like Start Me Up or Cant Get No (Satisfaction).

Not that I'm shitting on the beatles..  I enjoy looking at that musical timeframe though the kelidascope of drug induced culture...  But the key word to the original question is what ROCK band..  not some blue meany sgt pepper  pop effort that reminds me more of Andy Worhall than robert Johnson


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## Shogun (Apr 4, 2008)

Also..  I just ahve to say.. I find it to be a graet rock and roll tragedy that the answer to sir Paul's question is No.  Heather Mills should hop her one legged british ass off a cliff.



When I get older losing my hair
Many years from now
Will you still be sending me a valentine
Birthday greetings, bottle of wine?
If I'd been out till quarter to three
Would you lock the door?
*Will you still need me, will you still feed me
When I'm sixty-four?*

You'll be older too
And if you say the word
I could stay with you

I could be handy, mending a fuse
When your lights have gone
You can knit a sweater by the fireside
[ Find more Lyrics at www.mp3lyrics.org/aK ]
Sunday mornings go for a ride
Doing the garden, digging the weeds
Who could ask for more?
Will you still need me, will you still feed me
When I'm sixty-four?

Every summer we can rent a cottage in the Isle of Wight
If it's not too dear
We shall scrimp and save
Grandchildren on your knee
Vera, Chuck & Dave

Send me a postcard, drop me a line
Stating point of view
Indicate precisely what you mean to say
Yours sincerely, wasting away
Give me your answer, fill in a form
Mine for evermore
Will you still need me, will you still feed me
When I'm sixty-four?
Ho!


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## Gunny (Apr 6, 2008)

Shogun said:


> You know.. I always did like seeing Roger pop up in television.  Ever catch the Highlander series?  good stuff.  Behind Blue Eyes is still one of my favorites.  Roger may have been a mediocre actor but some of his music was a little thin too.  Boris The Spider?  eesh.  I'm glad I missed that Mod era of british music.
> 
> 
> Now, I totally disagree about the beatles and the stones..  The beatles were to their decade what 'nsinc is to this one.  If they hadn't been caught up in a hippy tidal wave (that began regardless of them, no less) then the beatles would have become the new kids on the block of the 60s.  Indeed, they became more real after they discovered the drugs but you can't tell me that "i wanna hold your hand" is not a pop tune.
> ...



The Stones followed the Beatles, and broke into the same rock/pop genre the Beatles did.  Even played the Ed Sullivan Show.  Some of their music may have been racier, but their acceptable for AM radio play was the same bland stuff.

The Beatles set the trends, and everyone else played catchup.  Both bands became successful pop bands and established themselves before going their own ways.  Few bands are successful attempting to break into music by starting off trying to establish their own style.  Especially during a time when media outlets were so limited and strictly controlled.

Agan, it all comes down to personal taste.  I like some Beatles tunes.  "An Octopus's Garden" is NOT one of them.   I like some Stones tunes, but they have some stinkers too.  *Get Off of My Cloud" is about as mindless as "She Loves You."


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## Shogun (Apr 7, 2008)

hehe.. oh yea.. that "Colors in the air" song by the stones is goofy as hell.  And dont get me wrong, I do love some beatles...  I just think that the Stones were more Rocknroll than the beatles.  The Yellow Submarine just doesn't strike me as all that much derived from the blues.  er, blue meanies maybe.

Current fav Stones song: Gimme Shelter
Current fav. Beatles songs: While My Guitar Gently Weeps and Why don't we do it in the road.  The white Album in general.


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## jff.law (Apr 14, 2008)

Black Sabbath


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## random3434 (Jul 1, 2008)

manifold said:


> Which band do you think has a bigger influence on new music today?




Zeppelin of course~


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## eots (Jul 1, 2008)

I think nativity in black answers the questionn...how many platinum selling tribute albums of zeppelin  preformed by the top cutting edge bands of this time have there been. ?   uhhhh...none..how many led-fest have there been...nope none of those either


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## Steerpike (Jul 1, 2008)

When it comes to the current stuff, and probably the stuff being put out since the early 90s, Black Sabbath is definitely the overriding influence.


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## Dr Grump (Jul 1, 2008)

Zepplin...easily..

Oh, and U2 are Ok in my book...


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## manu1959 (Jul 1, 2008)

manifold said:


> Which band do you think has a bigger influence on new music today?



probably black sabbath....all the hack speed metal douches try to be sabbath......zep is the better band though....notice no one can do zep except zep.....


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## roomy (Jul 2, 2008)

Sabbath (the Ozzy years) are probably my favourite band of all time, I don't have a clue about the influence on other bands compared to Zep.


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## Steerpike (Jul 2, 2008)

Maybe the people saying Zep can list the current bands that are more heavily Zep-influenced than Sabbath-influenced.

I'm interested.


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## editec (Jul 2, 2008)

Zep _invented _metal for chrisakes. Happily for us, they also could actually play music at the same time

Sabbath just made it respectable to call any three chord rock played loud, metal.

In that respect I suppose you have to give the crown to Sabbeth because so much that followed them in the metal department was basically (musically speaking) simpistic  shit.


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## Steerpike (Jul 2, 2008)

Zep didn't invent metal by any stretch.

Zep and Sabbath formed in the same year, firstly.  Deep Purple formed the same year as well.  Lots of bands were playing that type of stuff before Zep hit the scene to "invent" anything.  You've got stuff by Blue Cheer and Steppenwolf, probably as much metal as Zep and definitely an antecedent to metal, coming out at least a year before Zep released their first album.


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## Shogun (Jul 2, 2008)

editec said:


> Zep _invented _metal for chrisakes. Happily for us, they also could actually play music at the same time
> 
> Sabbath just made it respectable to call any three chord rock played loud, metal.
> 
> In that respect I suppose you have to give the crown to Sabbeth because so much that followed them in the metal department was basically (musically speaking) simpistic  shit.



The root of Metal is undeniably Sabbath.  

Simplistic shit, eh?  yea, I guess they couldnt ALL rip off another band to create an iconic Stairway to Heaven.


[youtube]HjPAEPFaxoM[/youtube]


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## editec (Jul 2, 2008)

There's no accounting for taste, boys.

If you're big Sabbath, bully for you.

I though Sabbath was overrated when they were new, and I thought they were overrated when they were old, too.


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## manifold (Jul 2, 2008)

I like both bands a lot, but since the early 90's forward, I hear the Sabbath sound coming through in new bands waaaaaaaaay more than Zeppelin.  I also don't know where anyone ever got the notion that Zeppelin is heavy metal.  Blues based hard rock isn't synonymous with heavy metal.  I can't even think of one single Zeppelin tune in drop tuning...a staple of heavy metal since first put into wide use by...you guessed it...Black Sabbath.  And as Soggy pointed out, Zeppelin ripped off a ton of shit.  So Sabbath wins for originality too IMO, if that was what we were voting on.


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## Shogun (Jul 2, 2008)

editec said:


> There's no accounting for taste, boys.
> 
> If you're big Sabbath, bully for you.
> 
> I though Sabbath was overrated when they were new, and I thought they were overrated when they were old, too.




overrated enough to create an entire genre and actually be original with their riffs?


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## jackmcmanus21 (Jul 3, 2008)

I like Sabbath more...but the consensus is Led Zep


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## Steerpike (Jul 3, 2008)

jackmcmanus21 said:


> I like Sabbath more...but the consensus is Led Zep



Which consensus is that?


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## Ravi (Jul 3, 2008)

Personally, I'd live quite happily never hearing either one of them again.


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## manifold (Jul 3, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Personally, I'd live quite happily never hearing either one of them again.



I can't tell you how much that means coming from a chick with a Menudo poster in her bedroom.


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## Ravi (Jul 3, 2008)

manifold said:


> I can't tell you how much that means coming from a chick with a Menudo poster in her bedroom.



You know, I can shoot you if I catch you doing that again.


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## manifold (Jul 3, 2008)

Ravi said:


> You know, I can shoot you if I catch you doing that again.



Yeah right!  You say that like you'd object or something.


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## Ravi (Jul 3, 2008)

*blush*


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## random3434 (Jul 3, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Personally, I'd live quite happily never hearing either one of them again.





Then who do you listen to?


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## random3434 (Jul 3, 2008)

I love Zep, they rock or can be melodic on their acoustic songs like this:


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO5vciT-0Jw]YouTube - Led Zeppelin - "Going To California" live @ Earl's Court '75[/ame]


Check out their stuff from "Earl's Court"


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## Dr Grump (Jul 3, 2008)

Steerpike said:


> Which consensus is that?



Led Zep 300 million albums

Black Sabbath 100 million.

Also, a tonne of BS stuff is just utter crap. Hardly any skill in it at all.


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## eots (Jul 3, 2008)

ozzy is all working class brit..and is so cool that he more of a americian icon than a brit but plant has the whole.. all upper classy .. twity.. britisy.. gay thing going on


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## editec (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm no musician but... Sabbath?

Come on..get real.


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## Steerpike (Jul 3, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> Led Zep 300 million albums
> 
> Black Sabbath 100 million.
> 
> Also, a tonne of BS stuff is just utter crap. Hardly any skill in it at all.



I think we're talking about who is more influential for current metal bands, not who sold the most.  Clearly it's Sabbath.


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## Steerpike (Jul 3, 2008)

From Wikipedia FWIW (contains a cite to Rolling Stone):

"With more than 100 million albums sold worldwide,[2] Black Sabbath is arguably the most influential heavy metal band of all time. The band helped to create the genre with ground breaking releases such as Paranoid, an album that Rolling Stone magazine said "changed music forever", [95] and called the band "the Beatles of heavy metal".[96]"


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## Dr Grump (Jul 3, 2008)

Steerpike said:


> I think we're talking about who is more influential for current metal bands, not who sold the most.  Clearly it's Sabbath.



I'd say Deep Purple were more influential as far as the metal genre goes. Led Zep were more blues influenced...


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## Steerpike (Jul 3, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> I'd say Deep Purple were more influential as far as the metal genre goes. Led Zep were more blues influenced...



I disagree.  Deep Purple had a bigger influence on late 70s and 80s metal most likely, although I'm not even certain that's the case.  But on the genre overall Black Sabbath has had more influence.  I can't think of another band that actually spawned an entire sub-genre of metal.  And from the early 1990s through now you'll find a lot more influence of Black Sabbath in the metal acts around that you will with Deep Purple, though Ritchie Blackmore, as a guitarist, has had wide influence.


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## matty (Jul 3, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> I'd say Deep Purple were more influential as far as the metal genre goes. Led Zep were more blues influenced...



_Never_ have I thought blues when listenin' to Led...

I love Led.


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## matty (Jul 3, 2008)

manifold said:


> I can't tell you how much that means coming from a chick with a Menudo poster in her bedroom.


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## matty (Jul 3, 2008)

Steerpike said:


> I think we're talking about who is more influential for current metal bands, not who sold the most.  Clearly it's Sabbath.


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## Steerpike (Jul 3, 2008)

Hey Matty. Nice to see you.

I'm still waiting for someone to take me up on a list of the newer metal bands with a clear Zeppelin influence


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## Dr Grump (Jul 3, 2008)

Never thought of Zep as metal....not many that i know of do...


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## Steerpike (Jul 3, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> Never thought of Zep as metal....not many that i know of do...



They're typically included if you look at the history of metal, etc., though I don't think they have many songs that would qualify.


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## Dr Grump (Jul 3, 2008)

Steerpike said:


> They're typically included if you look at the history of metal, etc., though I don't think they have many songs that would qualify.




I concur about the qualification aspect....

Immigrant song? Nah, Whole Lotta Love? Nah, Going to California? Nah, Kashmir? Nah, Ramble On? Nah...

Black Dog? Maybe...


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## Steerpike (Jul 3, 2008)

What is and What Should Never Be?  Maybe?  Not really metal.  Was a great band though.  Parts of No Quarter may qualify...


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## random3434 (Jul 3, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> I concur about the qualification aspect....
> 
> Immigrant song? Nah, Whole Lotta Love? Nah, Going to California? Nah, Kashmir? Nah, Ramble On? Nah...
> 
> Black Dog? Maybe...



I think most Zeppelin fans see them as rock, not metal. (I do at least)

When I think of metal, I think of Spinal Tap.


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## manifold (Jul 5, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> *U2* are Ok in my book...





Dr Grump said:


> ...a tonne of Black Sabbath stuff is just utter crap. *Hardly any skill in it at all*.






btw:  Geezer Butler's bass lines (And Ward's percussion) are considerably more involved than anything from whoever those two assclowns are that keep time for Bono.


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## manifold (Jul 5, 2008)

Why is it that hard rock & heavy metal acts get criticized for simple song composition far more than acts from other genres?  I've never heard anyone say, "That Bob Dylan stuff is simplistic crap.  Hardly any skill in those two chords at all!"


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## manifold (Jul 5, 2008)

Steerpike said:


> I think we're talking about who is more influential for current metal bands, not who sold the most.  Clearly it's Sabbath.



Actually, it was more influential to current bands.  I'm not sure where the "metal" qualifier got added to the conversation.


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## manifold (Jul 5, 2008)

editec said:


> I'm no musician but... Sabbath?
> 
> Come on..get real.



How much Sabbath do you know?


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## manifold (Jul 5, 2008)

matty said:


> _Never_ have I thought blues when listenin' to Led...
> 
> I love Led.



You must not be much into the blues then.

And are you not familiar with the famous Pete Townsend quote when he heard they were going to form a *BLUES* based rock band?  "That'll go over like a Led Balloon!"


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## manifold (Jul 5, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> Never thought of Zep as metal....not many that i know of do...



Definitely not as "heavy metal" as Jethro Tull at least.  Tull even has a heavy metal grammy to prove it.


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## manifold (Jul 5, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> When I think of metal, I think of Spinal Tap.





At least I hope that was a joke.


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## random3434 (Jul 5, 2008)

manifold said:


> At least I hope that was a joke.



At least YOU got it.............


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## manifold (Jul 5, 2008)

Echo Zulu said:


> At least YOU got it.............



he he he!

Talk about mud flaps, my gal's gottem!


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## random3434 (Jul 5, 2008)

manifold said:


> he he he!
> 
> Talk about mud flaps, my gal's gottem!






Put it up to eleven

Eleven. Exactly. One louder. 

 Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder? 

 These go to eleven.


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## Dr Grump (Jul 6, 2008)

manifold said:


> btw:  Geezer Butler's bass lines (And Ward's percussion) are considerably more involved than anything from whoever those two assclowns are that keep time for Bono.



We're talking Zepplin vs Sabbath here. Jones and Bonham kill Ward and Butler (easily) on the skill level. Ozzie was and still is an average singer (Plant kills him)..and you don't even want to get into an Iommi vs Page debate. When people talk of guitar Gods they talk Page, Clapton, Hendrix, Van Halen, even Blackmore on occasion. Never Iommi. There's a reason for that..

As for Mullen jnr and Clayton - different type of music...


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## matty (Jul 6, 2008)

Steerpike said:


> Hey Matty. Nice to see you.
> 
> I'm still waiting for someone to take me up on a list of the newer metal bands with a clear Zeppelin influence



I woulda Never posted just now, I was just checking th' place out for a minute, but this was too fun because I was wondering that Exact same thing...

A 21-gun- to the man with the list.  

I'm on the edga my seat...


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> We're talking Zepplin vs Sabbath here. Jones and Bonham kill Ward and Butler (easily) on the skill level. Ozzie was and still is an average singer (Plant kills him)..and you don't even want to get into an Iommi vs Page debate. When people talk of guitar Gods they talk Page, Clapton, Hendrix, Van Halen, even Blackmore on occasion. Never Iommi. There's a reason for that..
> 
> As for Mullen jnr and Clayton - different type of music...




I give the nod to Ward and Butler.  Bonham was good, but not great.  Easily the most overrated drummer I've ever heard.  Jones on the other hand is actually a little underrated IMO, but still not as good as Butler.  But skill on the instrument isn't everything.  Ever hear Jaco Pastorius?  That guy plays bass with more skill than anyone and does some spectacularly amazing stuff.  Yet I can't listen to any of his shit for more than two minutes.  It's completely devoid of anything that makes music worth listening to.

I'll give you Page over Iommi any day of the week...and then some.

As for Plant vs Ozzy, I call it a draw even though I like Ozzy much more.

If you value originality at all, Sabbath blows the doors off Zeppelin.  Tis laughable to even suggest otherwise.  But regardless, the debate isn't about skill or even originality, it's about influence on the music of today.  And as far as I can tell, Sabbath wins that one in a landslide.


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## Taomon (Jul 6, 2008)

manifold said:


> Which band do you think has a bigger influence on new music today?


Led Zeppelin, hands down.


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Taomon said:


> Led Zeppelin, hands down.



Name a few bands with a Zeppelin influenced sound?


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

A show of hands

How many people that have offered an opinion in this thread actually own everything ever recorded by both bands?  <*raising hand>


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## Taomon (Jul 6, 2008)

manifold said:


> Name a few bands with a Zeppelin influenced sound?


That is not what you originally posted. You said influenced, not sounds like.


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Taomon said:


> That is not what you originally posted. You said influenced, not sounds like.



They mean the same thing to me.

But fine, name a few more _influenced_ by Zeppelin than Sabbath.


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## Taomon (Jul 6, 2008)

manifold said:


> They mean the same thing to me.
> 
> But fine, name a few more _influenced_ by Zeppelin than Sabbath.


No it doesn't mean the same thing. But a few bands that have members who openly state that they are influenced by Led Zeppelin:


Guns -n- Roses 
Sheryl Crow
Maroon Five
Green Day 
Aerosmith 
Metallica 
Van Halen 
Kiss 
Boston 
Creed 
Pearl Jam 
Soundgarden 
K.T. Tunstall
Prince
Nirvana
ColdPlay 
Melissa Ethridge
The Black Crowes 
Incubus
Allanah Myles 
Tori Amos 
Living Colour
Edie Brickel 
Poisen 
Motley Crue 
Velvet Revolver
The White Stripes 
John Mayer 
Dave Matthews 
The Scorpions 
Yes 
Rush 
Bryan Adams 
Bon Jovi 
Cheap Trick
Neil Young 
Deep Purple
Dave Matthews 
Blue Oyster Cult 
Blues Traveler
Lynard Skynard 
Foo Fighters 
ELO 
Great White
The Counting Crows 
Ben Harper 
Kid Rock 
Judas Priest
Journey 
Kansas 
Collective Soul 
Uncle Kracker 
Matchbox Twenty 
Megadeath 
Kenny Wayne Shepherd 
Supertramp
ZZ Top


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Nice c&p job. 

I'd give the nod to Sabbath for at least half of those (not the one's from the seventies and eighties of course...but we did say TODAY).

I'll let Soggy post the Sabbath list that's easily four times as long.

My one question for you is do you even own any Sabbath?


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

btw: Suggesting that Metallica and Megadeth are more influenced by Zeppelin than Sabbath pretty much disqualifies you from having anything of value to offer on the subject.

just sayin...


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## Taomon (Jul 6, 2008)

manifold said:


> Nice c&p job.
> 
> I'd give the nod to Sabbath for at least half of those (not the one's from the seventies and eighties of course...but we did say TODAY).
> 
> ...



I own every Sabbath CD from Black Sabbath to Dehumanizer (except for Technical Ecstacy, hmm...I have to get to FYE).

Sorry for bothering to post since you are so much better than I when it comes to music trivia


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Taomon said:


> I own every Sabbath CD from Black Sabbath to Dehumanizer (except for Technical Ecstacy, hmm...I have to get to FYE).
> 
> Sorry for bothering to post since you are so much better than I when it comes to music trivia



Settle down beavis, I'm just trying to have a little fun here.

Geesh you guys can be touchy!


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## Taomon (Jul 6, 2008)

manifold said:


> Settle down beavis, I'm just trying to have a little fun here.
> 
> Geesh you guys can be touchy!



Actually, the downfall of posting to message boards (and emails & IMs) is that you lose alot of inflection when it is written.

I was being sarcastic and was not upset at all. I was poking fun. 

So, no worries.


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Ditto!  No worries at all.

I like both bands a lot anyway, but it's still fun to debate pointless stuff like this sometimes.

And of course neither of them can hold a candle to Jethro Tull and Rush anyway.


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## Taomon (Jul 6, 2008)

manifold said:


> Ditto!  No worries at all.
> 
> I like both bands a lot anyway, but it's still fun to debate pointless stuff like this sometimes.
> 
> And of course neither of them can hold a candle to Jethro Tull and Rush anyway.



Rush rules. Rolling Stone did a great piece on them this month.


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## Ravi (Jul 6, 2008)

manifold said:


> A show of hands
> 
> How many people that have offered an opinion in this thread actually own everything ever recorded by both bands?  <*raising hand>





And that makes you an expert?


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Ravi said:


> And that makes you an expert?



_Relatively_ speaking...yes.


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Taomon said:


> Rush rules. Rolling Stone did a great piece on them this month.



Maybe I'll check it out.  But I haven't purchased a copy of Rolling Stone since I wrote it off as totally worthless back in 1990 when they named The Clash's "London Calling" as the best album of the eighties.  And if that wasn't bad enough, they didn't even include "Moving Pictures" in the top 100.


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## Taomon (Jul 6, 2008)

manifold said:


> Maybe I'll check it out.  But I haven't purchased a copy of Rolling Stone since I wrote it off as totally worthless back in 1990 when they named The Clash's "London Calling" as the best album of the eighties.  And if that wasn't bad enough, they didn't even include "Moving Pictures" in the top 100.



My daughter has a subscription. At my work we have aplause awards which is a few hundred bucks that you can put on a variety of vendor gift cards. I usually do a hundred at FYE. The problem with FYE is that everytime you buy something they try and stick you with a free year of magazine subscriptions (usually it is RS, Maxime, Time or Vibe magazines). My daughter was with me and asked for RS so I obliged. I'm not big on it either, but they did a couple of stories on Barrack Obama and I opened the cover and found Rush as well.


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## Steerpike (Jul 6, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> We're talking Zepplin vs Sabbath here. Jones and Bonham kill Ward and Butler (easily) on the skill level. Ozzie was and still is an average singer (Plant kills him)..and you don't even want to get into an Iommi vs Page debate. When people talk of guitar Gods they talk Page, Clapton, Hendrix, Van Halen, even Blackmore on occasion. Never Iommi. There's a reason for that..



More specifically, we're talking about which band has a greater influence on the current music scene.  That's clearly Sabbath, even though I agree regarding Page and Bonham both.

As for the list posted above, many of them have a much clearer Sabbath influence in their sound.  I'm not talking about who they say has influenced them, that could be anyone who inspired them to get into music in the first place, and for people who were coming on the scene in the 1970s and since then, I suspect many would list Zeppelin.

I'm talking about influence in terms of the sound being reflected in the current music.  Sabbath spawned an entire sub-genre of metal, and if I wanted to cut and paste as done above, I could paste a hundred or more bands that have this sound.  Even bands that aren't in the subgenre reflect far more the sound of Sabbath than Zeppelin.

Many of the bands cut and pasted above are also older bands, and we were talking about the current crop of music - early 1990s and forward I believe.  At least that was mentioned a few times back.

Many of the rest of those mentioned have no Zeppeling influence in terms of sound, even if they state Zeppelin was a personal influence.

As I said, I'm talking about how the sound influenced the current sound.  You'll find a lot more influence of Sabbath SOUND than you will of Zeppelin, at least in the last 10-15 years worth of rock/hard rock/metal.


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## Steerpike (Jul 6, 2008)

manifold said:


> Maybe I'll check it out.  But I haven't purchased a copy of Rolling Stone since I wrote it off as totally worthless back in 1990 when they named The Clash's "London Calling" as the best album of the eighties.  And if that wasn't bad enough, they didn't even include "Moving Pictures" in the top 100.



London Calling isn't the best album of the 1980s, but it has to end up pretty high on the list.  Of course, Rush is excellent. 

Was is SPIN who named Radiohead's OK COMPUTER as the best of the 1990s?  Well, again I don't think it's the best but it has to go up pretty high on the list.


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## Shogun (Jul 6, 2008)

i dunno.. i was always a bigger fan of The Bends, myself.


[youtube]NtpE27JaRPw[/youtube]


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## Steerpike (Jul 6, 2008)

I like The Bends as well, but I think I prefer OK Computer.   The new one is good too, though.

(that's a cool song, though!)


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## Dr Grump (Jul 6, 2008)

If London Calling isn't the greatest record of the 1980s, I'd love to know what is (the only one that comes close IMO is Nebraska). 

Rush are way over rated. In fact, hardly anybody has heard of them outside the US and Canada. Not that influential at all.

Interesting re influences. Dunno even how you can qualify it to be honest. 

I prefer The Bends too!


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## Steerpike (Jul 6, 2008)

Come to think of it, wasn't London Calling released in the 70s?  1979?


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## Dr Grump (Jul 6, 2008)

Steerpike said:


> Come to think of it, wasn't London Calling released in the 70s?  1979?



True, but it's chart run was in 1980 (it was released in Dec 1979). In rolling Stones' Top 500 albums it comes in at number 8...so I think there is a case for it being up there


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## Steerpike (Jul 6, 2008)

I remember The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars made the Rolling Stone list as well.  That's a great album.


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> Rush are way over rated. In fact, hardly anybody has heard of them outside the US and Canada. Not that influential at all.




I never said they were influential.  I said they kick ass.  As for not known outside North America, perhaps you should check out the Rush in Rio dvd.  The stadium was packed some 6+ hours before the show.  If you're going to make bogus statements, completely ignorant of the facts, I might have to start calling you the Kiwi Yurt!


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Dr Grump said:


> True, but it's chart run was in 1980 (it was released in Dec 1979). In rolling Stones' Top 500 albums it comes in at number 8...so I think there is a case for it being up there



The Clash are only eclipsed in musical suckdom by the Sex Pistols, with honorable mention going to the Violent Femmes.

And if that's an eighties album, so too is Pink Floyd's "The Wall," which also didn't make the lame RS top 100.


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## Steerpike (Jul 6, 2008)

You should also check out the Iron Maiden ROCK IN RIO DVD.  Very cool.  The crowd was massive.

As for the Clash, London Calling is still a great album.  Sex Pistols I'm not a huge fan of.


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## manifold (Jul 6, 2008)

Call me crazy but the only vocalist I've ever liked that sounds like Ray Davies is Ray Davies.


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## Shogun (Jul 7, 2008)

manifold said:


> The Clash are only eclipsed in musical suckdom by the Sex Pistols, with honorable mention going to the Violent Femmes.
> 
> And if that's an eighties album, so too is Pink Floyd's "The Wall," which also didn't make the lame RS top 100.



i have to agree.  I never was a Clash fan.


the ramones, the misfits and black flag.  were all much better.


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## Dr Grump (Jul 7, 2008)

Ok, so Rush are known inside the Americas...wow, they must be great...

Sex Pistols and Clash were the godfathers of punk (although some would argue the Ramones were there first). However, the Clash have a huge legacy - Black Flag and the Misfits barely rate a mention other than by hardcore aficionados. Sex Pistols only had one album of note, but what an album... , the Clash had several..


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## Shogun (Jul 7, 2008)

i dunno man.. the misfits?  only hardcore aficionados?  Skulls and Last Caress?  I mean, i'll sorta agree with black flag but the Misfits is killer.


[youtube]wuDtVYX2KVs[/youtube]


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## matty (Jul 8, 2008)

having evidence of it are 2 different things.


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## matty (Jul 8, 2008)

_heavy metal_, really???


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## Nemo Securus (Jul 9, 2008)

Sabbath for metal totally but for bands like The Black Crowes, Rose Hill Drive My Morning Jacket im sure they were more influenced by Zeppelin


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## DiamondDave (Jul 9, 2008)

But wouldn't they have to be GOOD bands to count?

IMHO... nothing but nothing touches Sabbath in that timeframe... what the Beatles did to change music in the 60's, Sabbath did for music in the 70's

There has been other blues influences in rock before Zep... there was nothing quite like that before Sabbath

Personally... I could go the rest of my life without hearing another Zep song, and I would be happy.... I can't go very long without wanting a Sabbath fix...


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## Nemo Securus (Jul 9, 2008)

Im feeling you on the originality factor of sabbath.  Thank god that guy lost his finger tips huh.  They definitely had an original sound for that time and were heavy for the time as well.  Think about how heavy Skynyrd sounded then too though.  Workin for MCA and Needle and a Spoon are pretty hard drivin for 1975 agree?  I think a lot of metal bands today are just as influenced by them.....Pantera for example


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## Your Overlord (Jul 15, 2008)

well they both had some serious influence
I prefer Zeppelin
"we are Your Overlord"(immigrant song)
happens that I am listening to Sabbath as we speak


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## Spiritinthesky (Aug 12, 2008)

Come on! This has to be Led Zepp. Ozzy and the boys were ok, but they never made a good album.


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## Steerpike (Aug 12, 2008)

Spiritinthesky said:


> Come on! This has to be Led Zepp. Ozzy and the boys were ok, but they never made a good album.



I like their albums, but the question wasn't who you like better or who put out better albums, it was who is a greater influence on the new music coming out today.  At least in the hard rock/metal arena, Sabbath has a much, much greater influence on what is coming out now that Zepp ever did.


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## Your Overlord (Aug 12, 2008)

Spiritinthesky said:


> Come on! This has to be Led Zepp. Ozzy and the boys were ok, but they never made a good album.



ooooooo I dunno about that
the first Sabbath Album is eriely intense
"Paranoid" is a classic from front to back (as well as one of the best selling records/cd's of all time)
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is total progressive metal(and even includes Rick Wakeman to make it official)
and "Master Of Reality" is one of the best Heavy Albums of all Time
nothing against Zeppelin, like I said, since Zeppelin only put out one (well 2 if you include "Coda") Bad Album (that would be "Presence")
Ozzy's first 2 albums are darn good too Especially Diary of a madman
that said Robert Plant's solo stuff is darn good too!
neither one of these bands(or their influence) is going away anytime soon
I dont know anyone that listens to the Stones much anymore
lots of Beatle Fans still going though
undenyable that the beatles Did a little of everything
Sabbath and Zeppelin were a whole different animal 
all of them kick ass


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## Gunny (Aug 12, 2008)

Steerpike said:


> I like their albums, but the question wasn't who you like better or who put out better albums, it was who is a greater influence on the new music coming out today.  At least in the hard rock/metal arena, Sabbath has a much, much greater influence on what is coming out now that Zepp ever did.



I'd agree with that mostly because Zepplin was a crossover from the druggie/psychodelic music to metal while Sabbath was heavy metal from the start.

Unless I just missed it, VH1's History of Metal didn't even feature Led Zepplin.


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