# Europe.



## Daniyel (Jan 4, 2015)

Hello everyone,



*UK 
One Dead Several Hurt In Pub Axe Attack
The Queen s Royal Guards fall back in face of mounting fears of new lone wolf terrorist attack Daily Mail Online
Michael Ward and Paula Jolly die after hit-and-run leaving 15 children UK News Daily Express
Dog walking pensioner left fighting for his life after savage attack by three teenagers - Mirror Online
Theresa May exiles British-born family whose daughter went to fight for jihadists in Syria Daily Mail Online
Bristol Somali sex abuse gang The full horrific story Bristol Post
More than 100 teenage girls in Rotherham gave birth to their rapists children Daily Mail Online
Nine men from Derby are jailed for grooming up to 100 for sex Daily Mail Online
Centre for Social Justice Teenage sex slave raped 90 times in one weekend despite authorities saying she wasn t at risk Daily Mail Online
London s Bermondsey Square Hotel bought out by Muslim multi-millionaire Daily Mail Online
Woman beheaded in London suburb of Edmonton with machete Daily Mail Online
Watch terrifying moment yobs launch FIREWORK attack on police car - Mirror Online
Terror cops smash 100 UK plots a week as British fanatic issues a beheading warning Latest News Breaking News UK and Newspaper content Daily Star
France
Man shouting God is Great tries to strangle French police officer - Telegraph
One person clinically dead after Monday car rampage in France i24news - See beyond
French teenagers planned suicide bombing at Lyon synagogue The Times of Israel
France become first country in world to ban pro-Palestine demos Daily Mail Online
Mother stabs teacher Fabienne Calmes to death in front of students in French school Daily Mail Online
French jihadists arrested in wake of Jewish museum detentions World news The Guardian
Diversity Macht Frei France 18-year-old girl raped by 4 Muslim minors because she is French and the French are all sons of whores 
Diversity Macht Frei France Muslim unfolds prayer carpet in church and reads Koranic verses during Easter mass
Muslim Immigration To France You Won t Be Able To Say You Didn t Know New English Review
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/...d-by-muslim-thugs-on-new-years-eve-this-time/
Valls refuse de classer toute la ville de Marseille en ZSP

Denmark
Denmark Muslims beat random couple with bottle and iron chains in the face graphic photos 10News.dk
Islam versus Europe Denmark Girl with Palestinian background stripped whipped and strangled by her own family for dating Danish boyfriend
EXPOS Something is Rotten in a Denmark Unsafe for Jews - Op-Eds - Arutz Sheva
4 arrested over suspected plot to attack Danish paper - CNN.com
H jere kriminalitetsrate hos muslimske grupper - Altinget - Alt om politik
Veteran spat upon threatened with having his throat slit - Wilmington Conservative Examiner.com

Sweden
Sweden Police station in Muslim ghetto attacked 10News.dk
Sweden Muslim rapes woman lying on broken glass 10News.dk
http://www.newsweek.com/sweden-right-wing-arson-attack-mosque-295487
Two Car Bombs Detonated In Malmo After Swedish Become Minority In City NATIONAL YOUTH FRONT
Swedish Police Lose Control Of 55 No-Go Zones To Muslim Gangs The Daily Caller
Swedish school bans the Swedish flag
Swedish Woman Viciously Beaten for Wearing Jewish Star Necklace Jewish Israel News Algemeiner.com
 Malm has not become safer for Jews rabbi - The Local
Nya bilbr nder rasar i Stockholms f rorter - Nyheter Idag
Somalian immigrant in Sweden who raped women to death appeals deportation. European Daily News.org
Germany
After Gaza war Muslim-German students threaten to kill Jewish student spokesman - International - Jerusalem Post
Germany anti-Islam protests Cologne Cathedral to switch of lights in protest against Pegida - Europe - World - The Independent
Now ISIS clashes spread across Europe Riot police separate hundreds of Kurds and Islamist supporters in Germany after at least nine are killed in protests in Turkey Daily Mail Online
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...id-flats-mosque-over-suspected-ISIS-ties.html
Germany Two Arrested for Synagogue Firebombing - Jewish World - News - Arutz Sheva
Diversity Macht Frei Germany Palestinian asylum seeker successively murders two girlfriends who wanted to leave him
Islam versus Europe Augsburg Allahu Akbar sprayed on multiple churches and cathedral

Just tip of the iceberg. 
*


----------



## Meathead (Jan 4, 2015)

The wonders of multiculturalism.


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 4, 2015)

And politicians and their fellow journalists of the so-called free press incite against pegida...


----------



## Vikrant (Jan 4, 2015)

Meathead said:


> The wonders of multiculturalism.



Get a tan and stop being jealous.


----------



## Meathead (Jan 4, 2015)

Vikrant said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > The wonders of multiculturalism.
> ...


Jealous of Muslim communities? Whew! Except for a few hustlers in downtown Prague who prey on tourists, we don't have any.


----------



## Swagger (Jan 4, 2015)

Vikrant said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > The wonders of multiculturalism.
> ...



Go back to India.


----------



## Vikrant (Jan 4, 2015)

Swagger said:


> Vikrant said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...



Very original! You too need to get a tan and stop being jealous.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 4, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A HUGE counter-demo is forming in Köln against pegida.  It is estimated that it will be at least 10 times larger than the pegida demo. Expecting problems with bus, tram and train in Köln on Monday, since the main train station in Köln ist literally next to the Kölner Dom (Cathedral).


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 4, 2015)

A Documentary short series made by Zvi Yehezkeli, discussing this situation in Europe dressed as a Muslim journalist and provide unique view about Islam in Europe, highly recommended - "Allah Islam"


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 4, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Hello everyone,
> ...


Funny puppets in large quantity. What they are demonstrating for is crime, religious extremism and national suicide. It has nothing to do with tolerance and democracy, which both would include the acceptance of pegida demonstrations.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 4, 2015)

Bleipriester said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...



I think we are talking like two ships passing in the night.

Who here is not accepting a pegida demo? Have those demos be cancelled anywhere?

Actually, the fact that both pegida demos AND anti-demos are going is a sign of *vibrant democracy*.

You do realize this, right?

And what exactly is national suicide?


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 4, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> A Documentary short series made by Zvi Yehezkeli, discussing this situation in Europe dressed as a Muslim journalist and provide unique view about Islam in Europe, highly recommended - "Allah Islam"



I will watch the entire video, promised, but no time today to do it.

Daniyel 

I just want to let you know that I live in one of most densely populated areas of Germany for muslims, are Bonn/Köln area. Not just everyday muslims, but the real hardcore freaks. There is a salafist Mosque less than 10 minutes walk from my home. It's not a pretty picture. A suburb of Bonn called Bad Godesberg has been renamed "Little Istanbul" by the locals. Still, I am still safer here than in many corners of the USA. Isn't that just plain old sad?

And yet, the pegida demos are just as wrong as those salafist pigs, because the pegida demos are being fed by ultra-right, ultra-nationalistic hatred, exactly the things that the German Republic was founded in 1949 to fight AGAINST. The group in Germany that is putting this shit up are the organizers of AfD (Alternativ für Deutschland) and are nothing more than mostly-rebranded neo-nazis. Thanks, but no thanks.  In this case, the enemy of my enemy is most definitely NOT my friend.  They are every bit as batshit crazy as that whackass Muslim party here in Germany called BIG.  Thanks, but no thanks.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Jan 4, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> I just want to let you know that I live in one of most densely populated areas of Germany for muslims, are Bonn/Köln area. Not just everyday muslims, but the real hardcore freaks. There is a salafist Mosque less than 10 minutes walk from my home. It's not a pretty picture. A suburb of Bonn called Bad Godesberg has been renamed "Little Istanbul" by the locals. Still, I am still safer here than in many corners of the USA. Isn't that just plain old sad?
> 
> And yet, the pegida demos are just as wrong as those salafist pigs, because the pegida demos are being fed by ultra-right, ultra-nationalistic hatred, exactly the things that the German Republic was founded in 1949 to fight AGAINST. The group in Germany that is putting this shit up are the organizers of AfD (Alternativ für Deutschland) and are nothing more than mostly-rebranded neo-nazis. Thanks, but no thanks.  In this case, the enemy of my enemy is most definitely NOT my friend.  They are every bit as batshit crazy as that whackass Muslim party here in Germany called BIG.  Thanks, but no thanks.




 The problem in Europe, as I see it, is that there are no parties other than these ultra-nationalists who show any willingness to address all the myriad problems associated with Islamization.  I am more familiar with British politics than German, but to use the U.K. as an example, their labor party has been more than willing to sacrifice their own children upon the altar of political correctness,  the rest of the parties are hardly and better, and one (respect) acts as nothing short of a fifth column. That leaves it to UKIP and the like to actually address people's concerns.

I know Angela Merkel has said that Multiculturalism is a failure,  but until the major parties actually take some real action instead of just offering platitudes, the door will remain open for these far right populist parties to fill the void.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 4, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > A Documentary short series made by Zvi Yehezkeli, discussing this situation in Europe dressed as a Muslim journalist and provide unique view about Islam in Europe, highly recommended - "Allah Islam"
> ...


Well, about the video it is barely talking about Germany, but I'm talking about general terms - Islam in Europe.
When I look on multiculturalism and democracy I find it a very weird subject, you got people that express their will to live isolated - which is not what democracy(/European socialism) intended to stand for in the first place - but it does stand for the people.
The only way multiculturalism can work is only for a short period of time, when eventually the cultures accept each other and blend together into one group - but this time it is different about the Muslims, now Islam lived in Europe for ages but the massive scales of "Islamization" is way too much for the Europeans to handle and everything predict to collapse.
The Ultra-Right/Ultra-Left will surly be the most bold sides of every society, no point to argue about that - but the way I see it they are simply the first to talk about it and they are the loudest that's all, when everyone willing to talk about something the entire 'politically correct' arena will collapse and this is the fear of Islamization I was talking about above.
The only problem (I'm repeating) is the will to go against each other when nothing bounds the citizens of each and every state, the 'Sharia4-'/'PEGIDA'  groups are just an example for what's going on demographically since again - the radicals are usually the one to make all the noise, but the problem is Europe is incapable of handling that and no preparations were ever made.
In addition to the burning M.E. and Jihadism threat I believe we are facing a world scale war of religions to burst out very soon and the Europeans are going to find themselves in a very uncomfortable situation.


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 4, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > Statistikhengst said:
> ...


No, thats not right. There must be a whole load of five-os to ensure pegidas right to demonstrate. Without massive police presence surrounding pegida demonstrators, the bunch of do-gooders, leftists and foreigners would savage them and we would have to count the dead and injured.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 4, 2015)

Bleipriester said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


That's exactly what we observe in Europe right now, 'de-facto democracy' - it is the people that democracy divides and conquer.
On one side of the sidewalk you have people calling for Shari'a law for Germany, and on the other for deporting Muslims, Police officers secure the demonstrations and everything supposedly working, multiculturalism.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 5, 2015)

Bleipriester said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...



Oh, what a bunch of bullshit.  Police surround such demos, _including_ the anti-demos, because it is law to do this.  Good Lord, you may be able to fool Americans who live in the USA with this horseshit, but you cannot fool me. I live in the BRD and have been both demos and gegen-demos for the last 17 years and have yet to see blood flow. I watched a neo-nazi demo march one block away from my house (200 nazi pigs),10,000 anti-nazi demonstrators were also there. Not a stone was thrown.

You live in a fantasy world.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 5, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > Statistikhengst said:
> ...




Again, the mere fact that both sides are allowed to demonstrate shows that democracy is alive and well. What part of that do you not get?


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 5, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


The right to demonstrate is not equal to an ominous right to savage around.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 5, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


I Fully agree with you.

What I'm saying is that multiculturalism is not something intended to last for ever, and usually when the societies mix this is a painful process followed by many side effects, we've seen it in the US with the Afro-Americans, here in Israel with every immigration wave, and now its happening in Europe - but there is one problem about it - and Zvi discuss it in the film;
When the Pakistanis immigrated to the UK around 1945 they decided they want to live their life as part of the UK - which is one thing, a 'good' example of multiculturalism. 
The recent Muslim migrations are not so willing to blend in Europe and strive to change the states as well - it is the youth that getting easily inspired by radical Islam and the youth - is the one determine the future - and this is the problem.
Democracy and socialism include values such as multiculturalism and pluralism for accepting each other mutually - so I agree it is working, but not as intended in the first place which I believe is a dangerous road.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 5, 2015)

Bleipriester said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...


Exactly who has been savaging around?  Video?  Audio?  Eyewitness reports?  News reports? ?

Don't forget: I live here,  you can't fool me. 

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 5, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...


Really large topic.  I would like some time to chew on that one. 

M'od,  tov M'od. ..

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 5, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Statistikhengst said:
> ...


Its pronounced 'Meod' (Very - מאוד)


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 5, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Statistikhengst said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...


I know,  but the strophe can also be used,  Khavver.  

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 5, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Exactly who has been savaging around?  Video?  Audio?  Eyewitness reports?  News reports? ?
> 
> Don't forget: I live here,  you can't fool me.
> 
> Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


I am not fooling anyone and here comes the proof. What you can see, happened where I have to live, the sharia shithole and home of the disgusting children mafia, Remscheid, where the people have the migrant´s, politician´s and journalist´s dicks that deep in their pig yaps that the gall sputters out under pressure and they cannot voice any criticism. However, there is a small group of people that overcame their state of mindless zombies and voted Pro NRW into the city council.

About two years ago, there was a small Pro NRW demo in Remscheid. Of course, the city regime organized a counter demo and the fellow German zombies came in droves to express their devotion and freedom from opinion.

Well, this is how the crusade of tolerance began, a false picture mediating unity and tolerance:






Yeah, and this is how it ended up. God knows what would have happened, if the police would not protect the few Pro NRW demonstrators:


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 5, 2015)

Excuse me,  I will not allow you to lie.  It is law that political demos have police protection.  Please show me the violence in that video you published.  Lache. ..

So,  you are Pro-NRW?  Fascinating..



Where are the anti-semitic paroles that the video claims at the end? 

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 5, 2015)

Is the gall affecting your view? Everybody can see that the police must protect the Pro NRW demonstrators from being raided.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 5, 2015)

Bleipriester said:


> Is the gall affecting your view? Everybody can see that the police must protect the Pro NRW demonstrators from being raided.


Nearly every state in the world demand by law a police certification for running a protest/demonstration, without one you are not allowed to protest/demonstrate for many reasons but basically the police is involved in every protest/demonstration around the globe also to maintain the order.


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 5, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > Is the gall affecting your view? Everybody can see that the police must protect the Pro NRW demonstrators from being raided.
> ...


Whats the point? That the Pro NRW demonstrators would be fine without police presence?


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 5, 2015)

Bleipriester said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


It is not specifically because of the Pro NRW demonstrators but about crowds in general.


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 5, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...


Why are you denying that the aggressive Islamist Turks pose an abnormal threat to the demonstrators? 
When something completely makes a discussion senseless, its when people dont discuss what has happened but what they want to have happened. Those people who have to adjust truth to not to have their worldview breaking down like a card house, are really poor suckers. Are you one of them? Your thread is about the mad situation in Europe, is it? Has something suddenly changed your mind, the taste of gall perhaps?


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 5, 2015)

Bleipriester said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


Again I'll make my points clear because obviously you misunderstood me.

The law regarding gathering of (about) 40+ people that is planned demand police presence because and the logic is simple - when there is people there is crime.
*The police suppose to protect the people, and to enforce the law and order of the state - so when there are 40+ crowd it means that the chance for a crime to occur is densely concentrated. and the chances are multiplied by at least 400%.*
-It doesn't mean that they will commit a crime.
-It doesn't mean that they will be subjected to a crime.
*It only mean they are in greater risk since there are more people in there.*
-This may happen in EVERY group of people, a concrete, a party, a festival, a holiday, markets and also demonstrations.
Since a demonstrations and protests are usually a very sensitive issues, the law*(nearly everywhere) demands a police authorization and boundaries.
I said earlier in this thread -


Daniyel said:


> It is not *specifically *because of the Pro NRW demonstrators* but about crowds in general.*


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 5, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Bleipriester said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...


Again, what has the general law to do with urgent need of protection in such special cases?


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 5, 2015)

Bleipriester said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Bleipriester said:
> ...


Each case for itself, that is why understanding the key for criminology - that when there is people there is crime - is so essential;
The chances are whatever they are - which can happen by many different variables - and in demos/protests they are what you consider an urgent need of protection because you deal with a population that is more likely to be related to a crime than anyone else, and they openly express their opinion about a sensitive issue - people - and do that right in front of people that hold the complete opposite opinion. 
The odds can always raise but they all start from a point that crime can occur by having people.


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 5, 2015)

?


----------



## Coyote (Jan 6, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> http://www.commdiginews.com/world-news/europe/muslims-flee-northern-ireland-to-escape-anti-islam-violence-18836/#KoS90UuEpvkR6t7U.99
> ...



and more of the Iceberg (the part that seems to be invisable).

These are just a *very small sample* from just two of those countries, of crimes you choose to omit.  Multi-culturalism?  Or just plain old fashioned bigotry and crime?  This stuff has been around long before "multiculturalism" became the buzzword.

*Sweden*
*Swedish mosque hit by arson in Eskilstuna, injuring five*
*Sweden hit by third mosque arson attack in a week*
*In Sweden, the Land of the Open Door, Anti-Muslim Sentiment Finds a Foothold*
*Pregnant Muslim woman attacked in Sweden*


*Ireland/UK*
Muslims flee Northern Ireland to escape anti-Islam violence
*Research reveals HALF of all Britain's mosques have been attacked since 9/11 as anti-Islam violence spreads *
*EDL leaders spread false rumour about gang rape by Muslims in Luton*
*Anti-Muslim Hate Crime Soars In London, According To New Police Figures*
*Upsurge in anti-Muslim attacks*
*Muswell Hill: Counter-terror police probe firebombing after EDL graffiti sprayed on centre*
*'Don't go out alone': Police warning as they release haunting last CCTV pictures of Saudi student - taken just 20 minutes before she was stabbed 16 times 'for wearing a hijab' *
*Shocking unprovoked attack on Muslim pensioner as he drove to morning prayers caught on CCTV *


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 6, 2015)

There is likely pretty much hatred in the region and some fools go mad, loosing their right to speak out against Islamist crimes.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 6, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Hello everyone,
> ...


Well I did post some attacks turned against Muslims - but the point is, they are not as much innocent as you think, the typical mentality I've learned from Muslims (This one is specific for Arab Muslims*) is that basically when they are minority they'll always yell for discrimination and religious tolerance, when they are the majority they are bullying and intolerant crowd - like it or not this is my personal experience, I've also studied about the Quran and its actually all in there by the behavior of Mohammad - a lesson for eternally, and so my father told me, along with memories from his childhood.
You can see that only when they have the intellectual/physical upper hand they turn violent, and so does everyone predict about Islamization, people also predict that for Israel, that 'demographics' will win - like there must be a war, or probably they're just planning the future one? 
Take 24:00 minutes of your precious time and watch that video, I find it very accurate based on my personal experience.


----------



## Coyote (Jan 6, 2015)

There is no such thing as a  "muslim mentality" - the represent people from hundreds of cultures some completely different. The people being attacked no more deserve than any other people yet essentially get blamed for being attacked simply because they are Muslim and are some how asking for it.  That is bigotry plain and simple and it's bigotry in UK just as it's bigotry in Egypt when the Copts were attacked.


----------



## Coyote (Jan 6, 2015)

Part of it too is, so many of those crimes listed are simply crimes that have nothing to do with a person's religion but because the perpetrator was Muslim somehow get morphed into yet another Muslim crime statistic.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 6, 2015)

Coyote said:


> There is no such thing as a  "muslim mentality" - the represent people from hundreds of cultures some completely different. The people being attacked no more deserve than any other people yet essentially get blamed for being attacked simply because they are Muslim and are some how asking for it.  That is bigotry plain and simple and it's bigotry in UK just as it's bigotry in Egypt when the Copts were attacked.


Hard to believe? I think I have slightly more experience than you do with Muslims and Arabs in general, I recommend you watch the video where David Wood explains the origins and the references in the Qura'n, the most studied Muslim-only book which is the source for the differences.
There is a mentality for everything now you must have missed a discussion we had here about Tribalism and why the M.E. is burning, or perhaps the documentary I posted here on this thread by Zvi Yehezkeli, open your mind and watch - later judge and conclude, its not wise to conclude before judging or to judge before knowing.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Jan 6, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Hard to believe? I think I have slightly more experience than you do with Muslims and Arabs in general, I recommend you watch the video where David Wood explains the origins and the references in the Qura'n, the most studied Muslim-only book which is the source for the differences.
> There is a mentality for everything now you must have missed a discussion we had here about Tribalism and why the M.E. is burning, or perhaps the documentary I posted here on this thread by Zvi Yehezkeli, open your mind and watch - later judge and conclude, its not wise to conclude before judging or to judge before knowing.




Coyote has made it her mission in life to defend Islam on message boards. She has devoted tends of thousands of posts at different boards doing so over the years, and while she may not know WHY she has chosen to be a tool for Islamist supremacists, that does not stop her from employing her underhanded craft with a dedication bordering upon maniacal.

 You cannot expect an open mind from such a rabid zealot who is completely dishonest about their agenda and will do anything in their power to advance it.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 6, 2015)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Hard to believe? I think I have slightly more experience than you do with Muslims and Arabs in general, I recommend you watch the video where David Wood explains the origins and the references in the Qura'n, the most studied Muslim-only book which is the source for the differences.
> ...


I've had a few debates with Coyote before and when people challenge my opinion it makes me believe in it, if everyone agree it means something is very wrong.
I Think it would be fair to let Coyote speak for herself and not to intimidate her.


----------



## montelatici (Jan 6, 2015)

Why do you start threads about Muslims in Europe?  Do you think that somehow, Europeans will agree with your people's oppression of Arabs in Palestine, who happen to be minority Christian.  Forget about it.  Rabid zealots like Dogmaphobe and yourself don't fool anyone.


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 7, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Part of it too is, so many of those crimes listed are simply crimes that have nothing to do with a person's religion but because the perpetrator was Muslim somehow get morphed into yet another Muslim crime statistic.


The migrant crime rate is higher than the Germans only and overall crime rate. This cannot be written away by posting some cases where migrants are the victims. The government swears to serve the GERMAN people and therefor, the selection of migrants must base on the needs of Germany and nothing else. For example, our schools are rotten and about 150.000 apprenticeship places are vacant due to the lack of eligible applicants. The people arent on time, sober, sedulous. Therefor, they cant read and write their own German language properly and are rather useless bags. 
But who thinks that the regime that created that situation would select proper migrants that can occupy that places, must be very dumb...
A european study predicts that Germany will be the land of byeworkers.

"Germany is old, full and leisurely. It will be the land of byeworkers."

EU Studie Polens Wirtschaft wird Deutschland berholen - Wirtschafts-News - FOCUS Online - Nachrichten


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 7, 2015)

montelatici said:


> Why do you start threads about Muslims in Europe?  Do you think that somehow, Europeans will agree with your people's oppression of Arabs in Palestine, who happen to be minority Christian.  Forget about it.  Rabid zealots like Dogmaphobe and yourself don't fool anyone.


That are two different situations. Many muslims in europe behaviour just like Israel in Gaza.


----------



## I.P.Freely (Jan 7, 2015)

I'm glad I live in multi cultural Great Britain the Brits like the Jews and Muslims more than any European country.
National Secular Society - Poll shows that UK views its Muslims and Jews more favourably than other European countries


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 7, 2015)

I.P.Freely said:


> I'm glad I live in multi cultural Great Britain the Brits like the Jews and Muslims more than any European country.
> National Secular Society - Poll shows that UK views its Muslims and Jews more favourably than other European countries


Looks like no blond vulnerable girls were allowed to take part in your suspicious poll...


----------



## I.P.Freely (Jan 7, 2015)

try this one then bigot
*Is Britain hardening its heart against Muslims The Spectator*


----------



## Penelope (Jan 7, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > There is no such thing as a  "muslim mentality" - the represent people from hundreds of cultures some completely different. The people being attacked no more deserve than any other people yet essentially get blamed for being attacked simply because they are Muslim and are some how asking for it.  That is bigotry plain and simple and it's bigotry in UK just as it's bigotry in Egypt when the Copts were attacked.
> ...



David Wood is an atheist gone fundamentalist, and his hatred of Muslim and Islam is well noted. He should of been arrested in Dearborn and charged, they have no right going in to preach at an Arab Fest, they are instigating riots and uprising. Happens all the time with these evangelical Christians preaching to the Arabs.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 7, 2015)

12 Dead in Terrorist Operation on French Satirical Magazine - ABC News

That's pretty much the reply for you all, does France deserved it? Does anyone of the people injured or died by the last recent terror attacks in France deserved it?
Islam is simply a death cult, there is no reason to 'preach' but simply to read the Qura'n - something that all the Muslim-lovers never did.


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > There is no such thing as a  "muslim mentality" - the represent people from hundreds of cultures some completely different. The people being attacked no more deserve than any other people yet essentially get blamed for being attacked simply because they are Muslim and are some how asking for it.  That is bigotry plain and simple and it's bigotry in UK just as it's bigotry in Egypt when the Copts were attacked.
> ...



I think your experiences are limited to Muslim Arabs and your perceptions are influenced by your personal veiwpoint and experiences.  I'm not denying their validity, I'm just saying they are colored by your own views.  Let me put it this way:  Palestinians who have plenty of experience with Jews and Israeli Jews in particular have some pretty negative things to say about Israeli's and Jews in general.  Are they accurate?

When you talk about tribalism etc. in Arab culture - I agree with you.  If you talk about a need for a reformation in a religion that is still stuck in a Medievil  mindset in many parts of the world and which the other major world religion, Christianity, has moved beyond - I agree.

I did not find David Wood convincing at all, so I went and looked him up:

David Wood Christian apologist - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Christian apologetics - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The American Muslim TAM 
Exposing David Wood Of Mosques and Men Pt. 2 loonwatch.com
Rebuttal to David Wood s Article Muhammad in the Bible An Analysis of the Muslim Appeal to Biblical Prophecy 

If I want to learn about Islam, I would do the following:  read a decent history of Mohammed that included the cultures of the era, read a history of it's spread and it's different sects, written by reputable historians, read some works by modern Islamic writers and scholars (not self-professed experts), read the Quran and interpretations/explanations of what it means both today and in the context of the times, and read some works on Islam in the the modern world and on Islamic culture.  I would read books by Muslims themselves on what constitutes Islam and what their faith means to them.  That is what I've been in the process of doing.

If I want to learn about Judaism, I would do the following:  read a decent history (or histories) of the Jewish people that would include ancient history, diaspora and spread, the differing sects, their status in Europe and Muslim countries, the events surrounding the founding of Israel and modern Israeli culture, and Jewish culture and views in the modern world.  Read about what the actual beliefs are - what makes a person Jewish in faith.  I would read the OT, read a good historical analysis of the OT (for example Issac Asimov's The Bible as History) and  works by modern Jewish writers and historians. That is on my bucket list.

If I want to learn about Christianity, I would do the following: read some decent histories of the religion and it's spread throughout the world from ancient times, through reformation and to the modern world. I would read the NT and try to find some good books interpreting it and looking at it's history.  Read about the different sects and divisions.  Because Christianity is so wildly diverse - I would try to find a selection of books on the many divisions and what their beliefs are, written by people of those faiths.  I would look for books by modern Christians on what it means to be a Christian in todays worlds.  That is partially done but kind of on the back burner.

Lastly - I would look for good fiction by Jews, Christians, Muslims.  Sound silly?  Not necessarily - fiction provides a look at cultures.

What I would be very careful with is material written with obvious agendas and bias' against something though that can still be worth reading because it can give you the downside of particular religions - for example an athiests view of Catholocism or a Christian Apologist's view of Islam.

That's just my opinion Daniel.  I grant you know more of Arab culture than I do - but that is not all of Islam and it is likely colored by your experiences as an Israeli.  I think we all colored by our experiences (or lack of them) and mine are limited but include Muslims in N. America's Muslim communities as well as foreign students.  They comprise a variety of communities though - Bangledesh, India, Somali, Kenya, Sri Lanka, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Malaysia and of course - American.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Al-jazeera News going off  on one about the far right in France. As though that has anything to do with it.


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> 12 Dead in Terrorist Operation on French Satirical Magazine - ABC News
> 
> That's pretty much the reply for you all, does France deserved it? Does anyone of the people injured or died by the last recent terror attacks in France deserved it?
> Islam is simply a death cult, there is no reason to 'preach' but simply to read the Qura'n - something that all the Muslim-lovers never did.



No one deserves to be attacked by terrorists, period.  Terrorists and terrorists and criminals.

Simply read the Quran?  Well, simply read the Bible and you will come up with a death cult too.  I've read the Quran, though some time ago, for a class.  Not just the cherry picked bits you pick up on hate sites.


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...



Challenging anyone's opinion is good, it doesn't mean one is a "rabid zealot" just because they disagree with someone.  When my opinion is challenged - it makes me re-examine it.  Sometimes, it will make me research it a bit more.  Sometimes that just strengthens it, but sometimes it makes me change or revise it.  Sometimes I'm we just have to agree to disagree.

A lot of it depends on how it is challenged.  When someone just starts flinging insults right off the bat or putting words in my mouth, it shuts down a conversation.  I really do want to know what other people want to think about issues or their beliefs, even if I don't agree.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > 12 Dead in Terrorist Operation on French Satirical Magazine - ABC News
> ...




The Bible justifies a terror attack carried out in the name of Islam?

The killers were heard to shout: ‘The Prophet has been avenged.’


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...



No, it justifies killing people who do not share the faith.



> The killers were heard to shout: ‘The Prophet has been avenged.’



Every religion has it's extremists and when they engage in murder or criminal acts on behalf of their faith they need to be dealt with as criminals.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...




What other religion on this planet, in this day and age, is murdering peope in the name of their religion?

Rev Wright is an extremist, but as far as I know , has not slaughtered anyone with a different view to his.


----------



## Penelope (Jan 7, 2015)

How is it we know they are Muslims now? Maybe a stupid question, but how do we know?

"
"Hey! We avenged the Prophet Muhammed! We killed Charlie Hebdo," one of the men shouted, according to a video filmed from a nearby building and broadcast on French television. Other video images showed two gunmen in black at a crossroads who appeared to fire down one of the streets. A cry of "Allahu akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great"— could be heard among the gunshots."

The same article said the attack was quick , 5 mins, and someone from a nearby building videoed it and they heard this on video.

I have to say , sure looks like a set up, just saying, we have no proof they were Muslims do we?


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Mindful said:
> ...



In parts of the world people are being killed or forceably converted because they are not Buddists, Christians or Hindu's.  It depends on where in the world you are and of what faith you are.  Right now, I agree, Islamic extremists are more of a problem world wide and part of the problem is that Islamic culture in many parts of the world is still stuck in a medievil mindset in regards to religion, human rights, free speech, the role of religion in government, etc.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Penelope said:


> How is it we know they are Muslims now? Maybe a stupid question, but how do we know?
> 
> "
> "Hey! We avenged the Prophet Muhammed! We killed Charlie Hebdo," one of the men shouted, according to a video filmed from a nearby building and broadcast on French television. Other video images showed two gunmen in black at a crossroads who appeared to fire down one of the streets. A cry of "Allahu akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great"— could be heard among the gunshots."
> ...



Another conspiracy theory?

What will you do if they are?


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



This is getting too complicated  for me. Moral equivalence is okay, in small doses.

I'm watching Saudi Arabian TV right now.


----------



## Penelope (Jan 7, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > How is it we know they are Muslims now? Maybe a stupid question, but how do we know?
> ...



I'd say its all speculation at this point, masked men heavily armed, spoke perfect French. Do you have proof?  Whoever  it turns out to be should be proved in a court of law, and sentenced accordingly.

We have already decided it was Muslims though, how is that, could it be someone who wants the world to hate Muslims even more that the world already does?


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...




Who or what do you think they are?


----------



## Penelope (Jan 7, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Mindful said:
> ...



How would I know, I didn't see them. I mean it has to be Muslims, the blown up car by the synagogue, now I have never in my life seen a car just explode, have you?


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



The attack was on an office, not a synagogue. Though I can see where this is going.


----------



## Penelope (Jan 7, 2015)

I just knew Israel would give us some incite to all of this:
France: Car explosion near synagogue in Paris suburb is accident, not related to shooting
French media reported on Wednesday that a car explosion outside of a synagogue near Paris was not related to the terror attack at the Charlie Hebdo offices, which left 12 people dead and several others injured. 

A car caught fire in the Paris suburb of Sarcelles on Wednesday near a synagogue, an event the city's mayor,  François Pupponi, called an "accident, not an attack," according to Metronews.  

* The Sarcelles synagogue had been targeted over the summer by pro-Palestinian demonstrators who tried to set fire to the building in protest over Israel's policies in Gaza*
France Car explosion near synagogue in Paris suburb is accident not related to shooting - Breaking News - Jerusalem Post


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Mindful said:
> ...




It was also reported that they men were yelling Islamic slogans.  That's hearsay at the moment as they haven't captured anyone.  But I think probability is high that it was Islamic extremists.


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

Penelope said:


> I just knew Israel would give us some incite to all of this:
> France: Car explosion near synagogue in Paris suburb is accident, not related to shooting
> French media reported on Wednesday that a car explosion outside of a synagogue near Paris was not related to the terror attack at the Charlie Hebdo offices, which left 12 people dead and several others injured.
> 
> ...





Mindful said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Mindful said:
> ...



It's not complicated and "moral equivalency" seems to be the new buzzword when anyone tries to point out that religions other than Islam are engaged in religious violence.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Penelope said:


> I just knew Israel would give us some incite to all of this:
> France: Car explosion near synagogue in Paris suburb is accident, not related to shooting
> French media reported on Wednesday that a car explosion outside of a synagogue near Paris was not related to the terror attack at the Charlie Hebdo offices, which left 12 people dead and several others injured.
> 
> ...




I wondered how long it would take to get to Israel. Must have been a Zionist plot.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 7, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...




Allahu Akbar.

Spit.


----------



## Statistikhengst (Jan 7, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > I just knew Israel would give us some incite to all of this:
> ...




Dos dammed Jooz!


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > I just knew Israel would give us some incite to all of this:
> ...




Sorry. I just don't think you have a case there. With all the recent slaughtering going on around the world.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Statistikhengst said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



It was them all the time, doncha know?


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

This thread is in Europe, lets not derail it please.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

In a statement, journalist and writer Ian Hislop  of Private Eye said: 'I am appalled and shocked by this horrific attack - a murderous attack on free speech in the heart of Europe.

'I offer my condolences to the families and friends of those killed - the cartoonists, journalists and those who were trying to protect them.

'They paid a very high price for exercising their comic liberty.'

He added: 'Very little seems funny today.'


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Jan 7, 2015)

Mindful said:


> This is getting too complicated  for me. Moral equivalence is okay, in small doses.
> 
> I'm watching Saudi Arabian TV right now.



People practice many forms of deception based upon the painting of intentionally false equivalences here.


If something is very rare in terms of occurrence in Christianity or another religion/ideology but extremely common in Islam, they will try to paint them as the same.  It's the old excuse "it's just the extremists", only that they are too dishonest to acknowledge the extreme disparity in terms of numbers,  were they to use the same yardstick to measure both. Hundreds upon hundreds of millions of Muslims may believe in something, yet they pretend it is only a handful.

There is also the degree of egregious argument. If huge numbers of Muslims believe in killing those who leave their faith, or support killing gay people, the apologist will immediately point out Christians against gay marriage or the practice of shunning. Again, yet the enormous differences in degrees of severity here, they will try to paint as the same.

Finally, there is the hackneyed temporal displacement excuse by pointing out that Islam is "only" 1400 years old. They have been watching too much star trek and actually think there has been some sort of rift in the time/space continuum or something.

Coyote is not here to examine views. She does not seek the truth. She does not change her opinions as the result of facts. She is here to portray Islam falsely, to lie about what Muslim's believe, to propagandize, to deflect, to obfuscate, and to deceive.  She has been doing this for years on more boards than this one, and you can pretty much guarantee that nothing in this well-established pattern will ever change.


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > This is getting too complicated  for me. Moral equivalence is okay, in small doses.
> ...



Speak for yourself dude.  People here know me and know what my faults and opinions are for better or worse.   I've posted here for years. You and I tangled on exactly two boards and your attitude there was as inflexible and *closed to discussion* as it is here.  If people disagree with you in any way shape or form on Islam they are labeled Islamic apologists.  I do my best to ignore you because *you offer very little to discuss* beyond throwing insults and personally attacking posters who disagree with you - this seems to be your pattern here.

Now you can get back to putting words in people's mouths, misrepresenting their views and pretending you know all about them


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Jan 7, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Speak for yourself dude.  People here know me and know what my faults and opinions are for better or worse.   I've posted here for years. You and I tangled on exactly two boards and your attitude there was as inflexible and *closed to discussion* as it is here.  If people disagree with you in any way shape or form on Islam they are labeled Islamic apologists.  I do my best to ignore you because *you offer very little to discuss* beyond throwing insults and personally attacking posters who disagree with you - this seems to be your pattern here.
> 
> Now you can get back to putting words in people's mouths, misrepresenting their views and pretending you know all about them




  So, tell me again, how is it that so many hundreds of millions of Muslims believe in killing apostates, yet you won't find anything else close to that in Christianity or Judaism?

 You cannot, so you lie and deflect.  You can grandstand all you want by way of your self-promotion, but you are most certainly not here to examine your views -- only to lie about Islam.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Attack on French Satiirical Magazine.

Gunmen Attack French Satirical Newspaper Charlie Hedbo Killing 12 ndash Tablet Magazine

By the same token:

The number of "satirical" cartoons put out about Jews, should have swarms of Jews, or nowadays called  by the buzz word Zionists, attacking editorial offices with Kalashnikovs.

I wonder what happened to Salman Rushdie's fatwah.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Jan 7, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Attack on French Satiirical Magazine.
> 
> Gunmen Attack French Satirical Newspaper Charlie Hedbo Killing 12 ndash Tablet Magazine
> 
> ...




 Or Christians after the much ballyhooed "PissChrist".

But remember the defenders mantra, now -- there is no difference.


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Speak for yourself dude.  People here know me and know what my faults and opinions are for better or worse.   I've posted here for years. You and I tangled on exactly two boards and your attitude there was as inflexible and *closed to discussion* as it is here.  If people disagree with you in any way shape or form on Islam they are labeled Islamic apologists.  I do my best to ignore you because *you offer very little to discuss* beyond throwing insults and personally attacking posters who disagree with you - this seems to be your pattern here.
> ...



Because in that regard, Christianity has civilized itself.  Islam still needs to.



> You cannot, so you lie and deflect.  You can grandstand all you want by way of your self-promotion, but you are most certainly not here to examine your views -- only to lie about Islam.



Then challange my "lies" and I'll challenge your "lies".  You make claims about me but when asked to substantiate them with links, quotes, etc you are silent or fall back on your typical lies and insults. 

I am very interested in other people's views - that doesn't mean I agree with their version of "truth" or that my view will necessarily change (though it has in some areas) but it is learning.  It's called "discussion" - a foreign concept to you but it's what messageboards tend to be about.


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

If all or even most Muslims in France felt that violence and murder were the answer to satiracal insults - something like this would have happened long ago and many times over.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Didn't ISIS threaten this kind of Lone  Wolf activity? 

There have been several similar  attacks around France  just lately.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

What kind of person thinks a cartoon is a worse offense than murder?  You can guess.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

The weekly magazine pokes fun at religion and hasn’t been afraid to be controversial. It has consistently published material satirizing Islam and Mohammed amongst others
>> including Judaism and Christianity.<<

 The magazine was attacked with a fire bomb in 2011. The BBC reported the gunmen shouted;

We have avenged the Prophet Muhammad”

http://hurryupharry.org/2015/01/07/shooting-the-messenger-3/


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 7, 2015)

Coyote said:


> Daniyel said:
> 
> 
> > Coyote said:
> ...



This is going to be a very long post, I'll try to make it as short as possible.
First let me draw the line here, what you've studied in class is all one valuable thing, however you can't learn swimming by mail, after all actual experience has no equal.

I Would like to begin with what we do agree on, Islam- or most likely MUSLIMS* needs to go through a revolution, and it starts from here;

*Maajid Nawaz *“We Muslims must admit there are challenging Koranic passages that require reinterpretation today. Let us use existing tools of exegesis, such as specificity, restriction, abrogation and metaphor. Vacuous literalism as an interpretive method must be abandoned. It is bankrupt. Only by rejecting vacuous literalism are we able to condemn, in principle, ISIS-style slavery, beheading, lashing, amputation and other medieval practices forever (all of which are in the Quran). This is a struggle within Islam. Reformers either win, and get religion-neutral politics, or lose, and get ISIL-style theocracy.”

The Qura'n made it very clear, everything written in it is fully explained and clear, you must not take part of it or reinterpret it and be remained as a true Muslim - a true Islamic believer, otherwise they are to be considered hypocrites/disbelievers and every Muslim must fight them until they will testify* "The Messenger of Allah said: “that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" - this is why you happen to find many Muslims citing IS is the true nature of Islam, and which is why IS also fight other Muslims.

*To conclude I think that what you've learned in class is most likely inaccurate in case it is different than what's written in the Qura'n.*

The forms of violence Christianity went through began with the Crusaders and the Inquisition - we can argue about other cases but the point is - nothing last until our time, and this cases were when people reinterpreted Christianity to anything close to what Islam truly is by default.
Now you also mentioned the OT/Judaism as a "death cult" - do you see Jews terrorizing other religions in the name of God? seriously now you just made a guessing here because the OT is only filled with history/prophecies and if you look closer to Judaism to the 613 commands you won't find anything close to what is written in the Qura'n - and what we see today, and if you want the people with all the reasons in the world to fight other religions - it be the Jews.

I have a vast experience with Muslims starting from some of my friends and some are my enemies, I also have a vast experience about Arabs of all religions and Arabs are mainly influenced by Islam, but still different than Arab Muslims that we are discussing about, sadly since you was expecting to "be convinced" by David Wood's video, you didn't pay any attention to what he said, and I'm here to confirm every word.
The reason we all see uprising violence in Europe and MANY controversial words coming from Muslims we find ourselves confused, since you do understand what Tribalism is I believe it is not hard for you to understand why everything going that way in Europe, the Muslims are simply see themselves and other Muslims superior, and they don't try to blend in - to live as Europeans, that is all fair and fine, except that we are talking about Muslims, do you see any connection now? France is currently in what David Wood called 'Defensive Jihad' - they(the true Muslims) got offended by a cartoon and went spraying 12 people along with the police officers, they've managed to escape like the last terrorists because this happened in a Muslim AREA, again - phase two - 'Defensive Jihad'.
If you also want to look at the Israeli-Palestinian situation you can find everything is according to this pattern, so please take a look again and instead of completely denying tell me again which parts of the Qura'n you consider as mistranslated or fake.
It happens all over the world, 25,000 terrorist attacks since 9/11 is just 'the extremists' but what if it was completely reversed and we all were left for the mercy of Muslims? - remember the last time one ideology crowned over any sort of human rights?

Europe is going to chaos and this is only the beginning, its about time to acknowledge that.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

FYI:

*13.56* Charlie Hebdo cartoonist Corinne "Coco" Rey has told a French newspaper of the moment he encountered the two attackers as they entered the office.

The gunmen apparently said: "We're al-Qaeda":

_



_​_I had gone to get my daughter at nursery. _

_When I arrived in front of the door of the building of the paper, two men hooded and armed brutally threatened us. _

_They wanted to come in, go up. I pressed in the code. _

_They shot on Wolinski, Cabu... it lasted 5 minutes... I had hidden under my desk... they spoke French perfectly... they said they we're al-Qaeda.

Daily Telegraph._


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Shall we anticipate a gang of priests charging up to the offices, bent on murderous revenge?

:: The magazine has also been critical of France’s Catholic-aligned political right, often expressed through parodies of Jesus, Mary, the pope and other Catholic figures. Last week’s cover promised “The True Story of Baby Jesus,” based on infancy narratives from outside the Biblical canon. In the cartoon, the holy infant appears in a flash between the legs of his mother, spread apart as if in gynecologist’s stirrups.::

Daily Caller.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 7, 2015)

Penelope said:


> How is it we know they are Muslims now? Maybe a stupid question, but how do we know?
> 
> "
> "Hey! We avenged the Prophet Muhammed! We killed Charlie Hebdo," one of the men shouted, according to a video filmed from a nearby building and broadcast on French television. Other video images showed two gunmen in black at a crossroads who appeared to fire down one of the streets. A cry of "Allahu akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great"— could be heard among the gunshots."
> ...


Few reasons,
-Muslims have the perfect motive.
-Muslims were arrested for assaulting and threatening 'Charle Hebdo'.
-The look of the gunmen and the accent.
-They had smuggled gear, military grade but they wasn't holding the weapons correctly, but still shot accurately, they were also very organized like every 'local' terrorist cells - they knew their way and the area, they had a long time to plan it, and they also were somewhat experienced, did you see the video where the black gunmen executes the wounded police officer? - that is combat experience.
Of course this can be a set up, but most of the details for now indicates they are Muslims.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

Some more nauseating reactions?


Some More Nauseating Reactions To The Terror Attack In France by Aussie Dave Israellycool


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 7, 2015)

Penelope said:


> I just knew Israel would give us some incite to all of this:
> France: Car explosion near synagogue in Paris suburb is accident, not related to shooting
> French media reported on Wednesday that a car explosion outside of a synagogue near Paris was not related to the terror attack at the Charlie Hebdo offices, which left 12 people dead and several others injured.
> 
> ...




what a Brilliant  Post,   Penelope.        How about you google for the definition of   "incite" ------then explain to us just what
the hell your idiot post is all about.     Regarding a car with a gas tank  "exploding" ------I can think of possibilities-----I have
treated one patient who was in such a situation-----she was
rescued as the car began to burn and after she was pulled out---it did explode.    The motor was idling when the fire started..     The patient was not jewish. ------a USA city


----------



## Penelope (Jan 7, 2015)

Your probably right,  everything leads to a couple radical Muslims , but we just don't know for sure.


----------



## irosie91 (Jan 7, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Your probably right,  everything leads to a couple radical Muslims , but we just don't know for sure.



Penelope----your English is getting worse each day.   
I can help ----I have tutored people like you..    
YOUR   is a word which means  something "you" did or own.
 You are trying to express  "you are right"      for the contracted
  form-----the word is  "You're"  ------the next part of your post
  is utterly incoherent.     I did not mention muslims in my post
  about the patient whose car spontaneously caught fire---some
  problem with the ignition and the gas tank----not muslims


----------



## Penelope (Jan 7, 2015)

irosie91 said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Your probably right,  everything leads to a couple radical Muslims , but we just don't know for sure.
> ...



Where I come from Irosie its the norm, I do not come from  NY,, I am  from the UP of Mi. and we say your, and I am way too old for an English lesson from a  New Yorker, but thank you, your so sweet.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 7, 2015)

Hundratals muslimer i Sverige hyllar terrord det islam ska ta ver v rlden Fria Tider
Right Mouse click - > 'Translate to English'


----------



## Coyote (Jan 7, 2015)

Daniyel said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > Daniyel said:
> ...



Experience provides one value, but Daniel - experience can be colored by your own personal bias.  Do you disagree?  You and I have different experiences and I'll grant that your opinion carries the weight of direct experience.  That doesn't make it right or wrong, it just validates your perspective.



> I Would like to begin with what we do agree on, Islam- or most likely MUSLIMS* needs to go through a revolution, and it starts from here;
> 
> *Maajid Nawaz *“We Muslims must admit there are challenging Koranic passages that require reinterpretation today. Let us use existing tools of exegesis, such as specificity, restriction, abrogation and metaphor. Vacuous literalism as an interpretive method must be abandoned. It is bankrupt. Only by rejecting vacuous literalism are we able to condemn, in principle, ISIS-style slavery, beheading, lashing, amputation and other medieval practices forever (all of which are in the Quran). This is a struggle within Islam. Reformers either win, and get religion-neutral politics, or lose, and get ISIL-style theocracy.”
> 
> ...



How do you know what I learned in class?

What you say in paragraph one - written by a Muslim - I totally agree with.  This is a cross-roads for Islam.  

You say: "this is why you happen to find many Muslims citing IS is the true nature of Islam" - but IS it "many Muslims"?  There are millions of Muslims around the world - representing many cultures.  How many support groups like ISIS?  A fraction.  Many come straight out and say ISIS' actions are un-Islamic. 

ISIS' "supporters" come from several factions.  One - Sunni's who (justifiably) felt maltreated and disenfranchised under the Iraqi Government and felt that things were so bad, supporting ISIS was marginally better.

Islamists - attracted by slick propaganda, by what they percieve as "true Islam" as you point out.

Yet even combined it's a small group in comparison to all Muslims.



> The forms of violence Christianity went through began with the Crusaders and the Inquisition - we can argue about other cases but the point is - nothing last until our time, and this cases were when people reinterpreted Christianity to anything close to what Islam truly is by default.



Christianity became "civilized" - and why?  NOT because of anything inherent in the religion.  The religion's dogma provided rational for peace (as does Islam) but it also provided plenty of rational supporting forced conversions, conquest by war, and intolerance of non-believers.  What civilized Christianity was not religion but humanism and secularism and the idea that human beings were endowed with certain rights that could not be granted or taken away by any authority.  This also led to a seperation of church from government and that, in my belief - is what ultimately "civilized" that religion and it's the only thing that will civilize ANY religion.  There is no instance I can think of where religion and government are intertwined and basic human rights and freedoms for all citizens are respected.  Islamic majority countries still have a ways to go in that regard but just because they do doesn't mean they can't.



> Now you also mentioned the OT/Judaism as a "death cult" - do you see Jews terrorizing other religions in the name of God? seriously now you just made a guessing here because the OT is only filled with history/prophecies and if you look closer to Judaism to the 613 commands you won't find anything close to what is written in the Qura'n - and what we see today, and if you want the people with all the reasons in the world to fight other religions - it be the Jews.



When I made that remark, it was in reference to a specific post - and that was in relation to what is written in religious texts.  There is plenty of material in the OT to take and use to justify murder, intolerance and subjegation.  One source I looked at compared violence in the OT and Quran and found many more references to violence, condoning or encouraging violence than in the Quran.  One of the main points it made was references to violence, conducting war, etc in the OT were unconditional.  The Quran includes specific references to when something is allowed and when it isn't and how it should be done.  It is as specific about the "not allowed" as it is about the "allowed" and it sets forth rules for conduct - rules absent in the OT.  That is the background of my statement: religious text.

If you look at people - you get a different story.  I think in some ways Islam and Judaism, in religious belief are closer then either is to Christianity which I always see as kind of the flower child of religions becaues it goes out in all directions.  Both Judaism and Islam have pretty strict and detailed outlines of codes of conduct for behavior.  Both include a system of jurisprudence.  Both emphasize charity and good works.  I know more about Christianity and Islam however than I really do about Judaism so I'm always open for correction there.  However, unlike Islam and Christianity - Judaism has never been a world religion, never been a political religion and always been a minority in any country it has been in.  That profoundly alters it's conduct.  Islam and Christianity have played major roles on the world stage and unlike Judaism both are proselytizing religions with an agenda - convert as many as possible.  In both cases - when they were a minority, proselytizing was done by gentle conversion and both Islam and Christianity had something to offer in the way of a better life or afterlife.  Once they became a power, that fell by the wayside and conversion was often by force and war or, a ruler who became converted then converted all his people.  In that regard - in terms of long lengthy bloody warfare, discrimination, intolerance, brutality - there is no difference between Christianity and Islam.  That's history.

Today, Christianity has been able to put most of it behind them but it still simmers beneath the surface because - along with the positive, Christs love and tolerance, lies the negative that can be used to justify abuse.  Much of the Islamic world has not gotten to that point because to do so means you also have to allow for secularism, the concept of human rights independent of religion.  I think Islam, in it's confrontation and adaptation to the West and it's ideals - is grappling with how to deal with these things and the result is what we see now.  



> I have a vast experience with Muslims starting from some of my friends and some are my enemies, I also have a vast experience about Arabs of all religions and Arabs are mainly influenced by Islam, but still different than Arab Muslims that we are discussing about, sadly since you was expecting to "be convinced" by David Wood's video, you didn't pay any attention to what he said, and I'm here to confirm every word.



But not all Muslims are Arabs - in fact, most aren't.  There are vast cultural differences between Muslims in Eastern European "stans", Mid East, Africa, Indonesia, India, N. America and western Europe (which comrises a multi-national group as well as  multi-generational natives).



> The reason we all see uprising violence in Europe and MANY controversial words coming from Muslims we find ourselves confused, since you do understand what Tribalism is I believe it is not hard for you to understand why everything going that way in Europe, the Muslims are simply see themselves and other Muslims superior, and they don't try to blend in - to live as Europeans, that is all fair and fine, except that we are talking about Muslims, do you see any connection now? France is currently in what David Wood called 'Defensive Jihad' - they(the true Muslims) got offended by a cartoon and went spraying 12 people along with the police officers, they've managed to escape like the last terrorists because this happened in a Muslim AREA, again - phase two - 'Defensive Jihad'.



I disagree with this because you lump all Muslims together regardless of their countries or cultures of origin.  Somali's are not Bangladeshi's.  In addition is the issue of "assimilation" - the degree of assimilation varies according to host country and the country of origin.  Some assimilate very well, some not - it's far from uniform.

Defensive Jihad.  Did you know that most of the tips on terrorists that we have gotten have come FROM our Muslim communities with police and Muslim leaders working closely together?  One recent example - the two teenage girls from Colorado attempted to join ISIS and were apprehended in Germany.  How were they apprehended?  Concerned parents approached their religious leaders who approached law enforcement.  



> If you also want to look at the Israeli-Palestinian situation you can find everything is according to this pattern, so please take a look again and instead of completely denying tell me again which parts of the Qura'n you consider as mistranslated or fake.



The Quran, like the Bible, contains many passages that should be understood in the context of the period rather than excised out and looked at in a vaccuum.  When someone take ONLY the quotes pertaining to war, and omits the quotes pertaining to peace - I'm not saying it's mistranslated or fake - but it's "cherry picked" and dishonest.



> It happens all over the world, 25,000 terrorist attacks since 9/11 is just 'the extremists' but what if it was completely reversed and we all were left for the mercy of Muslims? - remember the last time one ideology crowned over any sort of human rights?
> 
> Europe is going to chaos and this is only the beginning, its about time to acknowledge that.



No.

Because falling to that mindset is no different then falling to the 1930's anti-Jewish propoganda and you know where that ended up.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 7, 2015)

FLASHBACK Obama 2012 The Future Must Not Belong To Those Who Slander The Prophet of Islam Truth Revolt


----------



## Penelope (Jan 8, 2015)

Mindful said:


> FLASHBACK Obama 2012 The Future Must Not Belong To Those Who Slander The Prophet of Islam Truth Revolt



Taken our of context. He went on to say intolerance if a form of violence, he was talking about hate speech, even holocaust denial was in that speech.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 8, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > FLASHBACK Obama 2012 The Future Must Not Belong To Those Who Slander The Prophet of Islam Truth Revolt
> ...



Yes;  Obama was talking out of context.

The Prophet was being  satirised, not slandered.


----------



## Penelope (Jan 8, 2015)

Mindful said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> > Mindful said:
> ...



That headline was taken out of context like most are, but so many people just read the headline.

Hey the guy said he'd rather be dead that not have free speech and I guess he got his wish.  My personal opinion , which means jack, is that kind of "satire" is what we can do without, and its called racism hiding behind cartoons. I guess a few French Muslims didn't find it funny.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 8, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...



Satire is a European tradition.


----------



## Daniyel (Jan 8, 2015)

Penelope said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> > Penelope said:
> ...


Of course they didn't, in the most favorable state for Muslims of Europe - so basically they killed them, makes sense.


----------



## Mindful (Jan 8, 2015)

Video Douglas Murray At Brilliant Best by Aussie Dave Israellycool


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Jan 8, 2015)

Penelope said:


> That headline was taken out of context like most are, but so many people just read the headline.
> 
> Hey the guy said he'd rather be dead that not have free speech and I guess he got his wish.  My personal opinion , which means jack, is that kind of "satire" is what we can do without, and its called racism hiding behind cartoons. I guess a few French Muslims didn't find it funny.




Now, I realize you are completely lacking in education, but what race are Muslims, again?


----------



## Mindful (Jan 9, 2015)

How long would it take for a Western journalist to blame the _Charlie Hebdo_murders on French colonialism and journalistic insensitivity to the feelings of Muslims? Not nearly as long, I suspected, as it would take a journalist in the Muslim world to blame them on the legacy of Mohammed and Islam. 

And I was right. It took less than four hours for an associate editor of the _Financial Times_, Tony Barber, to post a piece on the website of his august publication blaming the journalists and cartoonists of the satirical French magazine (and the two policemen as well?) for their own deaths. Here is what he originally wrote and posted, though he later edited out the final clause:

Equating Prudence with Cowardice by Theodore Dalrymple City Journal 7 January 2015


----------

