# The GOP is not Conservative



## Compost

In an interview Wednesday, Mr. Dole said that the party would suffer “cataclysmic” and “wholesale losses” if Mr. Cruz was the nominee, and that Donald J. Trump would fare better.


“I question his allegiance to the party,” Mr. Dole said of Mr. Cruz. “I don’t know how often you’ve heard him say the word ‘Republican’ — not very often.” Instead, Mr. Cruz uses the word “conservative,” Mr. Dole said, before offering up a different word for Mr. Cruz: “extremist.”

“I don’t know how he’s going to deal with Congress,” he said. “Nobody likes him.”


But Mr. Dole said he thought Mr. Trump could “probably work with Congress, because he’s, you know, he’s got the right personality and he’s kind of a deal-maker.”

more here
BOB DOLE says a Cruz nomination will destroy the GOP… but he also said that of REAGAN!!



*Dole is right.  Trump will make deals like a rhino.  Cruz will stand up for what he believes.  With Cruz, the GOP might go conservative.  Sounds right to me.*


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## DGS49

"Conservative" is a philosophy; it can be "pure."  "Republican" is a political organization; it must compromise occasionally to achieve the best outcomes, even if those compromises run contrary to the Conservative philosophy.

It would be the correct "Conservative" action to abolish Social Security, which is both unwise, economically, and blatantly unconstitutional.  But any political party that even mentioned abolishing SS would cease to exist in a heartbeat.

Cruz is mainly "Conservative" in his positions on the issues, but he is a politician nonetheless, and goes along with those non-conservative programs and positions as are necessary to remain viable as a politician.

Bob Dole was, from all reports, a pretty nice and pretty smart guy.  But his opinion on the ramifications of a Cruz victory are just the opinions of one other pretty smart guy - no more and no less.


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## Compost

What you say is true, DGS49.  And it seems to me, obvious.  So obvious as to be condescending.

As for Dole, I simply found it interesting that a non conservative republican came right out and said that Cruz doesn't play nice with the establishment whores as well as Trump probably will.  Such candor is refreshing.


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## TNHarley

Trump is not a conservative. I find it weird no republican that likes him never mentions he would fight for a single payer healthcare after he gets elected..
I mean, I understand you cant like someone 100%, 100% of the time. But it is worth mentioning..


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## Toro

Trump's not a conservative. 

The upside is higher with Trump but so is the downside. 

I'd never vote for Trump but I might for Cruz.


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## TNHarley

Toro said:


> Trump's not a conservative.
> 
> The upside is higher with Trump but so is the downside.
> 
> I'd never vote for Trump but I might for Cruz.


 you said you would if it was between him and Hillary.


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## ScienceRocks

The tea party is a anarchist group of anti-government idiots. There's nothing conservative about it.
-They don't promote two party family with a parent at home.
-They don't promote rational government that spends money wisely. Hell, they don't promote any government and believe everything should go to hell.
-They don't follow any conservative standards of morality seriously. They're foul mouthed pieces of shit just like the far left.


Quite with this being conservative shit...You know you're not.


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## Book of Jeremiah

Compost said:


> In an interview Wednesday, Mr. Dole said that the party would suffer “cataclysmic” and “wholesale losses” if Mr. Cruz was the nominee, and that Donald J. Trump would fare better.
> 
> 
> “I question his allegiance to the party,” Mr. Dole said of Mr. Cruz. “I don’t know how often you’ve heard him say the word ‘Republican’ — not very often.” Instead, Mr. Cruz uses the word “conservative,” Mr. Dole said, before offering up a different word for Mr. Cruz: “extremist.”
> 
> “I don’t know how he’s going to deal with Congress,” he said. “Nobody likes him.”
> 
> 
> But Mr. Dole said he thought Mr. Trump could “probably work with Congress, because he’s, you know, he’s got the right personality and he’s kind of a deal-maker.”
> 
> more here
> BOB DOLE says a Cruz nomination will destroy the GOP… but he also said that of REAGAN!!
> 
> 
> 
> *Dole is right.  Trump will make deals like a rhino.  Cruz will stand up for what he believes.  With Cruz, the GOP might go conservative.  Sounds right to me.*



You've got the wrong picture.  The Republican Establishment has accomplished nothing - Newt Gingrich was an establishment republican.  Look at the damage he's done by doing nothing.  John Bohner was an establishment republican and ditto for nothing, the Senate and House are chock full of establishment republicans and again - we've seen nothing.   The Establishment Republican base has done everything but throw the kitchen sink at Trump.  They have sided with leftist media and Democrats who have tried to stop Trump.  They have implied the party would be destroyed if Trump won and that is precisely what the American people want.  We are sick of the career politicians, the lobbyists and bankers they are catering too and are looking for someone who cannot be bought.  That man is Donald Trump. 

Trump is the man who said we must put a ban (temporary) on Muslim immigration until we figure out what it is going on.  Trump is the man that is going to win the nomination.  Get on board or get left behind.  That is the message and is resonating with the American people who actually know what conservative means.  The Establishment Republicans despise Donald Trump which is why they have not missed the opportunity to vilify him and that includes their mouthpiece - FOX NEWS!

I agree with many things you say (on other subjects), Compost, but for heaven's sake - WAKE UP!


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## Compost

Jeremiah said:


> Compost said:
> 
> 
> 
> In an interview Wednesday, Mr. Dole said that the party would suffer “cataclysmic” and “wholesale losses” if Mr. Cruz was the nominee, and that Donald J. Trump would fare better.
> 
> 
> “I question his allegiance to the party,” Mr. Dole said of Mr. Cruz. “I don’t know how often you’ve heard him say the word ‘Republican’ — not very often.” Instead, Mr. Cruz uses the word “conservative,” Mr. Dole said, before offering up a different word for Mr. Cruz: “extremist.”
> 
> “I don’t know how he’s going to deal with Congress,” he said. “Nobody likes him.”
> 
> 
> But Mr. Dole said he thought Mr. Trump could “probably work with Congress, because he’s, you know, he’s got the right personality and he’s kind of a deal-maker.”
> 
> more here
> BOB DOLE says a Cruz nomination will destroy the GOP… but he also said that of REAGAN!!
> 
> 
> 
> *Dole is right.  Trump will make deals like a rhino.  Cruz will stand up for what he believes.  With Cruz, the GOP might go conservative.  Sounds right to me.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got the wrong picture.  The Republican Establishment has accomplished nothing - Newt Gingrich was an establishment republican.  Look at the damage he's done by doing nothing.  John Bohner was an establishment republican and ditto for nothing, the Senate and House are chock full of establishment republicans and again - we've seen nothing.   The Establishment Republican base has done everything but throw the kitchen sink at Trump.  They have sided with leftist media and Democrats who have tried to stop Trump.  They have implied the party would be destroyed if Trump won and that is precisely what the American people want.  We are sick of the career politicians, the lobbyists and bankers they are catering too and are looking for someone who cannot be bought.  That man is Donald Trump.
> 
> Trump is the man who said we must put a ban (temporary) on Muslim immigration until we figure out what it is going on.  Trump is the man that is going to win the nomination.  Get on board or get left behind.  That is the message and is resonating with the American people who actually know what conservative means.  The Establishment Republicans despise Donald Trump which is why they have not missed the opportunity to vilify him and that includes their mouthpiece - FOX NEWS!
> 
> I agree with many things you say (on other subjects), Compost, but for heaven's sake - WAKE UP!
Click to expand...

I don't have the wrong picture.  I recognize that the GOP that is in power is establishment and is not conservative.  They are democrats pretending to be republicans.  Dole is one of these.  Maybe he can be honest now that he is retired but what he said is revealing.  Cruz is not "liked" because he is a conservative and he actually (most of the time) sticks to his principles and doesn't "make deals" that go against what he promised he'd do in Washington.

Maybe *you* need to "wake up" and see that what I said is true.  The establishment GOP is a bunch of career politicians who talk a good game but are quick to make a deal rather than fight for what is right.  (Paul Ryan is a good example.)  Trump, if he is the nominee, I will vote for him  over Hillary or Bernie.  But if he wins, I will be surprized if he doesn't disappoint lots of people who voted for him because he makes deals rather than fight for what is right.  I believe Cruz will fight because he has fought before.  That the establishment choose Trump over Cruz indicates to me that they think they can work with him- which means- get him to make a deal and go along with them.


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## longknife

When will you hateful Leftists get it into your head that there IS NO SUCH THING AS A TEA *PARTY*???

There are millions of fed up Americans who are stepping up to show their disdain for both parties. They will not be voting for the GOP - they will be voting for a true INDEPENDENT, Donald Trump.

That's what the GOP establishment hates about him.


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## Compost

Here's an interesting take on the subject from Ben Shapiro.   

Yesterday, Rush Limbaugh essentially declared the conservative movement over. “Nationalism and populism have overtaken conservatism in terms of appeal,” Limbaugh said. This has become the prevailing wisdom across the political spectrum – conservatism is on the wane as populism rises, and Donald Trump is a symptom of that rise. After Sarah Palin’s endorsement of Trump, for example, a multiplicity of sources declared that the Tea Party was now dead; Jim Geraghty of _National Review_ wrote of his theory:

Most members of the Tea Party actually never cared much about ideology or governing philosophy, just attitude…Maybe the Tea Party isn’t splintered and weak. Maybe it’s dead.

Or maybe the Tea Party always had strains of both attitude and ideology, in different combinations for different adherents, just like any mass movement. Populism isn’t a philosophy – it’s an attitude. Nationalism isn’t a philosophy – it’s an attitude. There are leftist populists, like Bernie Sanders. There are leftist nationalists, like Hugo Chavez. Conservatism hasn’t been trumped by either one – it’s just that modern conservatism has failed to make the case that its philosophy either stands up for the nation properly or appeals properly to the public.

Conservatism isn’t dead. But the rise of Trump demonstrates that its educational mission on economics has failed dramatically, and that its failure to embrace the base on social issues and foreign policy has created an opening for a return to an isolationist, protectionist past.

full article here
Does Donald Trump's Rise Mean Conservatism Is Dead?


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## Wry Catcher

What is good, when one refers to someone as a real Conservative? 

What are the characteristic of a conservative which makes one capable of governance?  Of leadership?  What is their vision?  

How does the vision of a conservative make the United States Great Again?

How does fiscal conservatism comport with someone being fiscally responsible?


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## longknife

Wry Catcher said:


> What is good, when one refers to someone as a real Conservative?
> 
> What are the characteristic of a conservative which makes one capable of governance?  Of leadership?  What is their vision?
> 
> How does the vision of a conservative make the United States Great Again?
> 
> How does fiscal conservatism comport with someone being fiscally responsible?



I don't know that Conservative is a valid political label for most Americans. They believe that the Constitution is the way government should be run and only want to keep unwanted government out of their lives.

Most also believe that elected officials no long REPRESENT them but the special interest and lobbyists.


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## Compost

Wry Catcher said:


> What is good, when one refers to someone as a real Conservative?
> 
> What are the characteristic of a conservative which makes one capable of governance?  Of leadership?  What is their vision?
> 
> How does the vision of a conservative make the United States Great Again?
> 
> How does fiscal conservatism comport with someone being fiscally responsible?


What's your question?  What's a conservative, or how dare somebody prefer one?


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## Compost

longknife said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is good, when one refers to someone as a real Conservative?
> 
> What are the characteristic of a conservative which makes one capable of governance?  Of leadership?  What is their vision?
> 
> How does the vision of a conservative make the United States Great Again?
> 
> How does fiscal conservatism comport with someone being fiscally responsible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that Conservative is a valid political label for most Americans. They believe that the Constitution is the way government should be run and only want to keep unwanted government out of their lives.
> 
> Most also believe that elected officials no long REPRESENT them but the special interest and lobbyists.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for most Americans but I don't *care* if conservative is not a "valid political label".   I don't like that our elected representatives don't always represent us as promised.  Still, I don't think it's all the special interest and lobbyists fault- we all have special interests and there are lobbies that push things we believe in.   Bottom line for me is I  don't think a man like Trump is going to shake things up that way I'd like them to see things shaken up.


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## Agit8r

Most people that I've met who self-identify as a conservative are decidedly not what that word means.


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## Compost

Agit8r said:


> Most people that I've met who self-identify as a conservative are decidedly not what that word means.


You aren't really saying anything.  You might as well add, most people who think they are nice people really aren't.


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## Wry Catcher

longknife said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is good, when one refers to someone as a real Conservative?
> 
> What are the characteristic of a conservative which makes one capable of governance?  Of leadership?  What is their vision?
> 
> How does the vision of a conservative make the United States Great Again?
> 
> How does fiscal conservatism comport with someone being fiscally responsible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that Conservative is a valid political label for most Americans. They believe that the Constitution is the way government should be run and only want to keep unwanted government out of their lives.
> 
> Most also believe that elected officials no long REPRESENT them but the special interest and lobbyists.
Click to expand...


I fully agree with your second paragraph. 

As to the first, I've notice very very few posters claim to be Republicans, most claim no party affiliation but use the label of conservative to describe themselves.  Those seem to come in one or more of these groups:

Racists
Bigots
Religious Zealots
Iconoclasts
Curmudgeons
libertarian leaning
Single Issue [opposed to gun control, opposed to abortion, opposed to taxes, opposed to gay marriage, etc.]
People who hate Obama, Democrats, liberals, progressives and other people they have never met and never will meet.


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## Agit8r

Compost said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most people that I've met who self-identify as a conservative are decidedly not what that word means.
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't really saying anything.  You might as well add, most people who think they are nice people really aren't.
Click to expand...


And yet, how many so-called conservatives approve of radicalism these days?


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## Wry Catcher

Agit8r said:


> Compost said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most people that I've met who self-identify as a conservative are decidedly not what that word means.
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't really saying anything.  You might as well add, most people who think they are nice people really aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, how many so-called conservatives approve of radicalism these days?
Click to expand...


None,  I don't consider anyone who supports Trump or Cruz conservative, and only neo cons support Rubio.  But many on the Right see Trump or Cruz as a hero, and both use extreme measures to garner attention.  Only the Crazy Right Wing is covertly violent, and no one on the fringe will ever win the nomination or a general election.

And very few liberals approve of radicalism.  Peaceful protests don't qualify, which is what OWS was, however it was radicalized by the far left and the original leadership of OWS choose to withdraw public protests and work within the system (most support Sen. Sanders today, but will support HRC in the general.


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## Indeependent

Fuck Limbaugh...He's simply jumping on a Gravy Train so he can write a book about how he helped Trump win.


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## ThunderKiss1965

I consider myself a Fiscal Conservative and would never vote Democrat so Republicans are all I got. It would be nice to have a true Conservative running but they would never win.

Most people refuse to admit that the Federal has gotten to large and to powerful.


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## longknife

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> I consider myself a Fiscal Conservative and would never vote Democrat so Republicans are all I got. It would be nice to have a true Conservative running but they would never win.
> 
> Most people refuse to admit that the Federal has gotten to large and to powerful.



My problem is that I'm not that thrilled with ANY of the current political parties or how the whole political situation has become so partisan.

If anything, I consider myself to be a Constitutionalist. I believe that is the law of the land and was written in an amazingly clear and unambiguous manner. We need to elect official who are responsible to the PEOPLE.

Thus, while I disagree with some of his methods and words, I find myself with no option but to vote for The Donald.


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## I amso IR

I simply cannot call my vote as of yet. I see this race boiling down to the lesser of evils. The term you use, "Constitutionalist" is the base of my thinking also. Having said that, I often wonder what the Founding Fathers would take issue with in this day and age if they were able to comment on the Constitution. What, if anything would they see as needed change. Remember, the majority supported the change from a Confederated form of government to a Federal system and the resulting central power as opposed to States being the power. And of course, history has shown that States Rights have been eroded and nullified. Who am I to trust? Trump is a man of many colors. Cruz and Rubio are cut from government cloth. None of the rest, with the exception of perhaps Kasich, show any real promise. And I am concerned Trump may become a liability after such as Angela Merkel. After 8 years of losing with Obama, we cannot hardly have another 4/8 years of blundermanship. A "dupe" president we can survive, but we need to consider what will his Cabinet look like? What will Trump bring with him? He is an unknown with a big mouth and ego plus a sackful of money. He is also a deal breaker when things do not go his way. Vote I will, that is not in question, but rather, how is the question. "Read my lips, no new taxes" lingers in my mind.


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## Sun Devil 92

DGS49 said:


> "Conservative" is a philosophy; it can be "pure."  "Republican" is a political organization; it must compromise occasionally to achieve the best outcomes, even if those compromises run contrary to the Conservative philosophy.
> 
> It would be the correct "Conservative" action to abolish Social Security, which is both unwise, economically, and blatantly unconstitutional.  But any political party that even mentioned abolishing SS would cease to exist in a heartbeat.
> 
> Cruz is mainly "Conservative" in his positions on the issues, but he is a politician nonetheless, and goes along with those non-conservative programs and positions as are necessary to remain viable as a politician.
> 
> Bob Dole was, from all reports, a pretty nice and pretty smart guy.  But his opinion on the ramifications of a Cruz victory are just the opinions of one other pretty smart guy - no more and no less.



Bob Dole is a relic.


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## Militants

Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz will choise respectively GOP after they win in 3+9 states.


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