# MLS Tied with MLB for Popularity Amongst 12-17 Year-Olds



## Toro (Mar 8, 2014)

That's pretty stunning IMHO.



> For the first time in the 20-year history of the ESPN Sports Poll, Major League Soccer has caught up with Major League Baseball in one significant marker of popularity.
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> In the survey, both leagues can claim 18 percent of 12- to 17-year-olds as avid fans of their sport, the poll said. ...
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> The NFL led the poll with 39 percent of 12- to 17-year-olds saying they are avid fans. The NBA, NCAA football and NCAA basketball were all over 23 percent.



MLS catches MLB in popularity with kids, says ESPN poll - ESPN FC


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## Montrovant (Mar 8, 2014)

That is pretty surprising.  Of course, I consider either of those sports having 18% as 'avid followers' to be a stunningly high number; those are a couple of boring sports to watch!  

I'd like to see all the results, to see where the other sports ranked.

It was also a fairly small poll (1500 people) so I'm not sure just how indicative it is of the entire nation.

You can look at the results of this poll when you answer the questions.  These numbers have MLS much further back, although you don't see a breakdown as to which ages voted where :

SportsNation Polls - SportsNation - ESPN


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## JWBooth (Mar 8, 2014)

Disappointing


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## JimH52 (Mar 8, 2014)

Shows you how far baseball has fallen....uuughhh


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## Unkotare (Mar 8, 2014)

Yes, soccer is a fine game for children.


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## TruthSeeker56 (Mar 9, 2014)

Unfortunately for soccer, 12-17 year olds don't have any money to pay for the tickets to see men in shorts run around kicking a ball.

Soccer will NEVER be a major sport in this country, no matter how hard ESPN tries to cram soccer down our throats.


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## Toro (Mar 10, 2014)

TruthSeeker56 said:


> Unfortunately for soccer, 12-17 year olds don't have any money to pay for the tickets to see men in shorts run around kicking a ball.
> 
> Soccer will NEVER be a major sport in this country, no matter how hard ESPN tries to cram soccer down our throats.



F*cking liberals always shoving communism down our throats!


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## DGS49 (Mar 10, 2014)

Not surprising, considering the massive brainwashing that has been taking place over the past 30 years by our soccer moms and Euro-weenies.

After all, in football you might get hurt, and basketball and baseball are sports in which you actually have to have some talent in order to succeed.  

Soccer?  Everybody gets a trophy.  The perfect sport for White, suburban America.


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## rightwinger (Mar 10, 2014)

I think it is more a reflection of baseball losing support among youngr Americans than Soccer gaining a fanbase


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## Unkotare (Mar 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> I think it is more a reflection of baseball losing support among youngr [sic] Americans than Soccer gaining a fanbase [sic]




It's neither.


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## DGS49 (Mar 10, 2014)

Any thoughts why baseball would be losing support?

My guess is that there is an explosion of other sports, with everyone trying to find one that their kid can excell at.  So you see increased support for hockey (several varieties), lacrosse, crew, soccer, softball, etc., and a lot of this erodes baseball's position as the historical All-American boys game of Summer.

It's actually quite Darwinian, which turns a lot of people off.


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## ogibillm (Mar 10, 2014)

not gonna lie - a few years ago i would have thought i'd never be interested in soccer. then i married a soccer fan, began to understand the game, went to a few sporting kc games and us mens games...

it's fun. the fan atmosphere at a soccer game is better than any baseball game i've been at, and it's a lot more affordable to attend.

hell, sporting kc has $2 beers! (or had, they may be more expensive now) and they were good beers! weston brewing company drop kick ale!


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 11, 2014)

MLS is a farcry from European soccer. That stereotype died long ago. It has successfully implemented and stuck with a business model that has seen it grow exponentially over the past 19 years. This report highlights a generational shift from the traditional classic American sports.  MLS is a distinctly American flavored take on the sport. The style of how these teams play the game, how the media covers it, how the fans support it and how the local communities have embraced it are all quintessentially American and tailored towards a generation that will be the first to have had it around them their whole lives. As fans of the sport now, they'll pass this on to the next generations, continuing the growth of the sport. 

So as much as many want to believe it'll never be as big as the other sports, reports such as this have become more and more common and that's only going to continue as it continues to gain popularity with Millennials who grew up with the game from its infancy, as they pass it down to their children.

For my part, I'm quite impressed with the league and the opening matches of this season. The quality is obviously still not up to the par of the European leagues, but the talent many of these teams have brought in has been very impressive. The talent coming out of the universities now and are now entering the MLS has been equally impressive. Most impressively, the league's ability to hold onto its best young talent (Diego Fagundez, Harry Shipp, Luis Gil, Walker Zimmermann, Andrew Farrell etc) and keeping them from walking in the ill-fated footsteps of Freddy Adu and Jozy Altidore has been crucial to drawing in younger fans.

More food for thought is that the current US Men's national team will now boast its 2 best players as members of MLS instead of being European-based. That also signals a significant shift in the direction this league's going in. It's only going to get bigger and better.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Mar 11, 2014)

Proof positive that American kids are a bunch of pussies today.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 11, 2014)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Proof positive that American kids are a bunch of pussies today.



You have to be in better shape to excel in soccer than any of the other major sports imo. So, I would wholeheartedly refute that notion.


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## Dot Com (Mar 11, 2014)

soccer is a sport? i thought it was a hobby


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## Unkotare (Mar 11, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
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I don't think you can say that with any credibility. There is a different sort of "in shape" for different sports and even different positions on different sports, so that kind of comparison is all but meaningless.


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## Unkotare (Mar 11, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> soccer is a sport? i thought it was a hobby





It's a nice way for children and women to play and pass the time. Which is fine.


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## GHook93 (Mar 11, 2014)

Where is hockey? The sport is growing in popularity. I think baseball is dropping due to the fact that kids like everything fast and instant and baseball is anything  it fast and instant. I still think football, basketball, hockey and baseball beat soccer!


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 11, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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You have to run for the full 90 in soccer. No other major sport comes even close to that cardiovascular level of fitness.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 11, 2014)

GHook93 said:


> Where is hockey? The sport is growing in popularity. I think baseball is dropping due to the fact that kids like everything fast and instant and baseball is anything  it fast and instant. I still think football, basketball, hockey and baseball beat soccer!



I don't wholeheartedly agree with all of that; but to explain why soccer is so high is due to the increased Latino population. Soccer is their main sport. Probably 80-90 percent of that 18 percent are Latino.


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 12, 2014)

Why do people think this sport is unmanly? That it's only fit for women and children? It's incredibly demanding on the body and on the mind. There's a reason why 30 is considered the point in which most pro players begin to decline (except for goalkeeper). As I watch all other sports, I see players going strong well into their 30s, even 40s. This is extremely rare in soccer considering the toll it takes on the body. 

Is it because it's not violent enough?

Would love to see specific reasoning behind that argument.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


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And marathoners run for 2.5+ hours straight. And a professional soccer player could never keep up with an NFL receiver running a route, couldn't complete one round of boxing or one line change in hockey without being so gassed they need an oxygen tank, and in a competitive swim event would be lucky to get out of the water alive. And they don't need to do any of those things because those are different sports. Hence, my remarks.


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## Toro (Mar 12, 2014)

GHook93 said:


> Where is hockey? The sport is growing in popularity. I think baseball is dropping due to the fact that kids like everything fast and instant and baseball is anything  it fast and instant. I still think football, basketball, hockey and baseball beat soccer!



Hockey is a niche sport in America. Nationally, it doesn't rate.


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## Toro (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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I agree that different sports have different characteristics but I disagree with your analogies. Soccer is a sport which requires cardio, quickness and coordination. 

It's funny that you mention those sports. A good friend of mine growing up was a professional football player who played WR who was also a competitive swimmer and could have played professional soccer had he chosen that route, he was that good.  He didn't play hockey but everyone else did.  We played hockey in the winter and soccer in the summer.  All of us hockey players weren't grasping for oxygen on the soccer pitch. 

Soccer isn't a violent game like football, but it is extremely taxing on the body. The reason why there is no endless overtime play until someone scores like most other sports. It's because after 120 minutes, the body is shutting down. Also, its rare to find players playing at a high level when they hit 32. Most soccer players peak around 27-28 years. There are no MVPs breaking records at 37 or 38 like Peyton Manning.


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## rightwinger (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> GHook93 said:
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> > Where is hockey? The sport is growing in popularity. I think baseball is dropping due to the fact that kids like everything fast and instant and baseball is anything  it fast and instant. I still think football, basketball, hockey and baseball beat soccer!
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I agree

I think the resurgence in soccer is due to an increase in hispanics and fans from other countries


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## Toro (Mar 12, 2014)

rightwinger said:


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The average MLS fan is white and from the suburbs. When the US national men's team plays, it's mostly white people in the stands (unless they're playing Mexico!). 

The knock against the sport was that it was a kids game, and when the kid grows up, he'll go into football or maybe baseball or basketball. That's still true, but less true in the past. One reason why this happened was because there was no pro league to go into. MLS is now that league. The other issue is the 6'3" athlete may go into football, but what about the 5'8" athlete?  You need to be a certain size to play most pro sports, MLB excepted. In soccer, it really doesn't matter. Most of the superstar soccer players are fairly small. That's not true in other pro sports. The small American athlete now has a platform to pursue a pro career in MLS if he so chooses.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


> You need to be a certain size to play most pro sports, MLB excepted. In soccer, it really doesn't matter. Most of the superstar soccer players are fairly small. That's not true in other pro sports. The small American athlete now has a platform to pursue a pro career in MLS if he so chooses.





You realize that won't last, right? That's what they used to say about baseball and hockey, but with rare exceptions most top pros in those sports are bigger and bigger men. Just the way of the world.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


> Soccer is a sport which requires cardio, quickness and coordination. .





So do a lot of sports. They are just different sports and require different things in order to excel.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


> Soccer isn't a violent game like football, but it is extremely taxing on the body. The reason why there is no endless overtime play until someone scores like most other sports. It's because after 120 minutes, the body is shutting down. Also, its rare to find players playing at a high level when they hit 32. Most soccer players peak around 27-28 years. There are no MVPs breaking records at 37 or 38 like Peyton Manning.





Players - in certain positions - are lasting longer now for a number of reasons. An important one is that now athletes take better care of their bodies over a career.


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## rightwinger (Mar 12, 2014)

Ever since Pele came to play in the US during the 70s, I have heard that there would be a resurgence of Soccer in the US. After all, the rest of the world LOVES Soccer so it is only a matter of time before the US embraces the game

It hasn't happened. I don't think it ever will

Americans hate soccer. I don't see that changing


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> Ever since Pele came to play in the US during the 70s, I have heard that there would be a resurgence of Soccer in the US. After all, the rest of the world LOVES Soccer so it is only a matter of time before the US embraces the game
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> It hasn't happened. I don't think it ever will
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> Americans hate soccer. I don't see that changing




And what Americans hate more than anything is the "everyone else loves it, so you _have to_ be like everyone else!" attitude; be it in sports, politics, or any other area of life.


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## rightwinger (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > Ever since Pele came to play in the US during the 70s, I have heard that there would be a resurgence of Soccer in the US. After all, the rest of the world LOVES Soccer so it is only a matter of time before the US embraces the game
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Every time the World Cup comes around I convince myself that I am going to try to watch. ESPN plays Soccer highlights and I am amazed by how athletic and exciting the game is. I gotta watch this!

Then I watch the games and am bored to the point of tears. You can say that I don't understand the game, but I understand the point is to get the ball in the goal. After 90 minutes of kick the ball to one side of the field and then kick the ball to the other side of the field, I reach the point where I understand why Americans hate soccer


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 12, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> Ever since Pele came to play in the US during the 70s, I have heard that there would be a resurgence of Soccer in the US. After all, the rest of the world LOVES Soccer so it is only a matter of time before the US embraces the game
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> It hasn't happened. I don't think it ever will
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> Americans hate soccer. I don't see that changing



Americans do not hate soccer. They never really have. At the very least, America is quite indifferent to it. That a farcry from outright hatred.

Even this indifference is beginning to wane though. FOX Sports has aired the Champions League Final, which has steadily held an average of 1.5 million US viewers over the last 4 years with the peak of those ratings coming in 2011 when the championship featured Barcelona and Manchester United, 2 of the most popular franchises in world sports. 2.2 million Americans watched that match. That's astronomical for a country who apparently "hates" the sport.

Look at the ratings for the WC 2010. It increased 40% from the 2006 tournament in the US. Outrageous for a country that "hates" the sport.  

These are not mistakes, anomalies or flukes. Interest in the sport has been on a very steady increase. It will remain as such largely down to younger generations who will pass on this interest to future generations. The older generations that are indifferent to the sport are are on a rather quick road to becoming the minority.


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## DGS49 (Mar 12, 2014)

If your definition of "in shape" is limited to the ability to run all day, then maybe so.  (Basketball and tennis fans may give you an argument).

But considering strength, flexibility, and athleticism, the top players in football, basketball, and baseball all make the soccer guys look pathetic.

How many pro soccer players could bench press 250 lbs?  Now many could dunk a basketball?

Seriously, what do you think?


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
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I personally no longer subscribe to the "The rest of world likes it, so America should too" bandwagon in terms of soccer. I no longer need to think like that as a soccer fan. The sport is winning people over on its own now. More parks now have soccer fields, more cities now have soccer complexes, larger cities are becoming more and more interested in having MLS franchises (a new team in New York and one in Miami are expected to join the league in 2015). That's down to how good of a job many of the best teams in the world have done in capitalizing on the largely untapped US market. That's where there is an international tournament that takes place all over the country every summer now where these teams come and play in various American cities. 

So no one is cramming soccer down anyone's throat anymore. It's really not necessary because it now has a platform and a very successful strategy that is allowing it to grow naturally.


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## Toro (Mar 12, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> Ever since Pele came to play in the US during the 70s, I have heard that there would be a resurgence of Soccer in the US. After all, the rest of the world LOVES Soccer so it is only a matter of time before the US embraces the game
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> It hasn't happened. I don't think it ever will
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> Americans hate soccer. I don't see that changing



There has been a resurgence in soccer. There is a healthy and growing professional league, and the US is ranked in the top 20 in the world.  NBC paid $100 million for the Premiership rights, and Disney paid a couple billion for the World Cup. Small peanuts compared to the big three leagues for sure, but evidence that it is certainly growing. 

Soccer will never be as big as football, baseball or basketball. But hockey?  Maybe one day.


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 12, 2014)

DGS49 said:


> If your definition of "in shape" is limited to the ability to run all day, then maybe so.  (Basketball and tennis fans may give you an argument).
> 
> But considering strength, flexibility, and athleticism, the top players in football, basketball, and baseball all make the soccer guys look pathetic.
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> ...



How many basketball players could strike a soccer ball at close to 80 mph from over 30 yards away from goal and accurately beat a 6'5'' keeper whose reflexes are almost cat-like?

How many football players could pull off a perfectly timed sliding challenge that dispossess an opponent of the ball without breaking their legs or earning a yellow or red card?

How many baseball players can accurately launch 40-50 yard lobbed passes up the pitch to a striker running into space beyond opposing defenders without underhitting to an opponent or overhitting it into the stands?

How many hockey players could thread a delicate pass through a congested, chaotic and highly combative midfield area without turning over possession or getting taken out by an opposing defensive midfielder?

I can play that game too.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > Ever since Pele came to play in the US during the 70s, I have heard that there would be a resurgence of Soccer in the US. After all, the rest of the world LOVES Soccer so it is only a matter of time before the US embraces the game
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Yeah, pretty much we do.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> How many football players could pull off a perfectly timed sliding challenge that dispossess an opponent of the ball without breaking their legs or earning a yellow or red card?.




Would that be with or without falling down theatrically and doing a dramatic death scene from Macbeth right there on the field (it's a damn field, not a "pitch" your majesty).


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> How many basketball players could strike a soccer ball at close to 80 mph from over 30 yards away from goal and accurately beat a 6'5'' keeper whose reflexes are almost cat-like?.





Probably most of them.   "cat-like"


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## rightwinger (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
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I think Hockey fans are the most fanatical fans I know. They obsess over the game. They live for it. But they live in isolated markets in the US. Hockey will never demand a nationwide obsession like the other sports do.

Doesn't mean that Hockey cannot make money. Doen't mean they can't fill stadiums

Same goes for Soccer


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## Toro (Mar 12, 2014)

rightwinger said:


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Yeah, I agree. Americans who love hockey REALLY love hockey. But because its not part of the culture nationally, it doesn't sell well nationally.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> How many hockey players could thread a delicate pass through a congested, chaotic and highly combative midfield area without turning over possession or getting taken out by an opposing defensive midfielder?.




Oh yeah, hockey players never have to do anything like that...


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


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I dunno...the Stanley Cup does good ratings nationally.


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
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It's a pitch in soccer terminology. I use that term as a show of respect to the origins of the sport.

As for the scenario, I am referring to a clean tackle made by the defender on an attacker who gets right up and gets on with the game....y'know....a normal play. The diving and the theatrics does not happen in every soccer game. It happens with specific players on specific teams in specific leagues in specific countries.


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
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If you're referring to field hockey, I tend to agree.....


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## Dot Com (Mar 12, 2014)

hockey is better than all of them!!!


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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And soccer fans don't take it on themselves to slam marathon runners. They grant them the respect they've earned. And I'd love to see an NFL corner try to shut down Messi or Ronaldo. They'd get taken to school.


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## Dot Com (Mar 12, 2014)

just found out about this guy Toro- Bergkamp, after doing a search because of your thread, because I don't follow sports very much. You heard of him? Look at the feed at 1:45 to his teammate who slams it home at 1:50  , among other brilliant moves.   [MENTION=2926]Toro[/MENTION]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTSULy5LkKs]Dennis Bergkamp ? Technique and Elegance - YouTube[/ame]


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> The diving and the theatrics does not happen in every soccer game. It happens with specific players on specific teams in specific leagues in specific countries.





........


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


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You should take the time to watch a hockey game at least once. You might like it.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> And soccer fans don't take it on themselves to slam marathon runners.





They do if they're sitting in the wrong part of the stadium when the riots break out.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> And I'd love to see an NFL corner try to shut down Messi or Ronaldo.





If it wasn't a complete waste of their valuable time I'm sure they'd be happy to oblige you.


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## NoNukes (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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Boxing is a sport where yo need to be in top physical shape. Joey Archer once told me that the actual match is not bad, but getting in shape for it was hell.


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## Pop23 (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


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Baseball took a hit with steroid scandal. It will come back


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

NoNukes said:


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I hear you.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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That's a cultural phenomenon; not a soccer phenomenon. You won't find any of that stuff in MLS stands; of course, Tou will find more than a hundred fights at any Raiders game. So, I guess you should hate football by your logic.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Pop23 said:


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It hasn't gone anywhere.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Tou will find more than a hundred fights at any Raiders game. So, I guess you should hate football by your logic.




When was the last time they burned down the stadium or had to call off the match because they spectators all went apeshit at once?


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## Toro (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
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Diving and play-acting are blemishes on the sport, no doubt.  I wish they'd make a more concerted effort to stamp it out.

However, there are sporting aspects of soccer you don't see in North America, or at least as much.  When a player on the opposing team is injured, the team with the ball will kick the ball out so he can receive treatment, and after the treatment, the team with the injured played will give the ball back.  After each match, the teams shake hands, sometimes swap jerseys, and then go over the fans and applaud them for supporting the team.  Occasionally, fans will applaud the opposing player if he scores a great goal or plays very well.


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## Dot Com (Mar 12, 2014)

Do Orientals play soccer?  Why is an Oriental giving advice


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


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The NBA is getting to be as bad.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Do Orientals play soccer?  Why is an Oriental giving advice





What the hell are you talking about?


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


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You see sportsmanship, concerned for injured players on the other team, and appreciation for outstanding play by an opposing player in all other sports. Nothing particular to soccer there. Some of the behavior by fans (and sometimes players) in international soccer matches is occasionally beyond inappropriate.


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## Montrovant (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


> rightwinger said:
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And that's sad, because hockey is clearly a superior sport!


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## Montrovant (Mar 12, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> DGS49 said:
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I'm not going to denigrate the skills or physical fitness of soccer players.  However......I find the idea that they are hyper-accurate when shooting at the goal very counter-intuitive.  Isn't the goal something like 10 feet high and 23 feet long?  I don't care how 'cat-like' your reflexes are, if the players were so fast and accurate with their kicks, from great distances, there's no reason not to have much higher scoring games.  The net is HUGE!

And look at a soccer shoot out.  All the goaltender can do is guess and jump a certain way (or stay still) and hope.  They certainly don't have time to use 'cat-like' reflexes to stop the shot if it's moving at 80 mph and they have so much net to cover!  

Now, I don't know what it's like in leagues with smaller nets.


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 12, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> just found out about this guy Toro- Bergkamp, after doing a search because of your thread, because I don't follow sports very much. You heard of him? Look at the feed at 1:45 to his teammate who slams it home at 1:50  , among other brilliant moves.   [MENTION=2926]Toro[/MENTION]
> 
> Dennis Bergkamp ? Technique and Elegance - YouTube



Legendary player. 

I still don't know of a current player that can do the things he did with the ball at his feet.


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## Toro (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Toro said:
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I totally agree. In Brazil a few years back, a ref was beheaded and his head placed on a stick that was planted in the middle of the center circle. It was shocking. 

But much of the rioting has been stamped out due to effective crowd control and pricing tickets out of the reach of thugs and hooligans.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


> In Brazil a few years back, a ref was beheaded and his head placed on a stick that was planted in the middle of the center circle. It was shocking.






I remember that. Pretty hard to outdo that one. What the hell gets into people? Humans are dangerous animals in general.


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## rightwinger (Mar 12, 2014)

Toro said:


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Most other sports have figured out a way to call time out when a player is injured

Usually when a player is writhing in pain they give the ref this whistle thingy that he can blow and stop play


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 12, 2014)

Montrovant said:


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The goal is 8 feet high and 24 feet wide. I played keeper in high school using those dimension and while it sounds big, it can get surprisingly small when the action is right in front of it. 

As for your theory that a wider net means more goals should be scored, that's not quite right. Shots must be accurate for that to happen and with the more prolific forwards, this is often the case. For lesser players, this becomes a problem as many of their shots either go off target (missing the goal completely) or get blocked by opposing players or the opposing keeper. This isn't even discounting just how good or bad a defending team is vs how good or bad an attacking team is. If the defense is bad, but the attack is good then yes you're going to get a goalfest. If the defense great, but the attack is poor then yes you're going to be looking at 0-0, 1-0 or something like that. If both defenses and both attacks are good, then you have a thriller on your hands...I'm talking 2-3, 3-1, 4-4 scorelines etc. 

As for the ability of the goalkeepers themselves. They rely primarily on their reflexes, just as hockey goalies do. The big difference is that a keeper must command a larger area, not just the goal mouth. They often can be seen higher up just outside of their box, barking out orders to their defenders. 

In PK shootouts, it's essentially a guessing game so you're right in that regard. It is a bit more complex than that though. Some keepers are just able to "read" the PK-takers body language and base their guess off of that. This is also something that the PK-taker does as well. If the keeper gives them even the slightest idea of which direction they are going, the attacker can choose to go the opposite direction. So as much as it is a guessing game, it's also a bit of a battle of wits.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 12, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Ever since Pele came to play in the US during the 70s, I have heard that there would be a resurgence of Soccer in the US. After all, the rest of the world LOVES Soccer so it is only a matter of time before the US embraces the game
> ...



The older generation takes their cues from Jim Rome and Simon Cowherd who think it's cool to hate soccer. They have the mindset of ten-year-olds who are just thinking what daddy taught them to think. Heaven forbid they should actually think for themselves. That's not to say it's not okay to like other sports more. But 'hating' soccer really speaks to their own insecurities.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 12, 2014)

DGS49 said:


> If your definition of "in shape" is limited to the ability to run all day, then maybe so.  (Basketball and tennis fans may give you an argument).
> 
> But considering strength, flexibility, and athleticism, the top players in football, basketball, and baseball all make the soccer guys look pathetic.
> 
> ...



Your arguments are just stupid.

1. No, basketball players and tennis players do not have more stamina than soccer players. It's not even close.
2. Have you seen the legs of most soccer players? They likely can squat significantly more than the athletes of the other sports. You develop the muscles you use. A soccer player has limited use for upper body strength, and that (upper body bulkiness) can be a detriment to them at a certain point even.
3. Probably, most soccer players could dunk a basketball btw. But even a great many players in the NBA can't dunk.


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## Montrovant (Mar 12, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


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I'm not trying to say the keepers aren't good at what they do.  I'm just saying that 8 x 24 net means there is only so much that it is physically possible for a person to do.  They can cut down angles with positioning, and obviously the rules of where and when a player can shoot, as well as the actions of the defense, come into play.  But as shown by the shootouts, when it comes down to it, there is a point at which no amount of speed or quickness of reflexes can help.  I am not a soccer fan, so I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that many soccer games end with pretty low scores.  I have always found that odd considering the size of the net.

While a hockey goalie has some of the same issues, they are almost always in a position where, if they had quick enough reflexes, it's possible for them to reach the spot the puck is in.  In soccer, in the right situation, the goalie simply cannot cover the entire net; as in the shootout.

It doesn't make the sport bad (although I don't like it, it's not based solely on the size of the goals and relatively low scoring) it's just something that seems to put your praise of the shooting skills of soccer players in question.  If you were trying to point out the very best, rather than the average, it's a different proposition.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 12, 2014)

^^^
Defenders are taught how to cut down the angles and that is how the goalie only has to cover a limited space at any given time. That is also why if you watch any soccer game, you'll see infuriated goalies yelling at players who give attackers space with the ball. If you're trying to make a case that soccer players are skilled, then that is wrong. The best soccer players are the most skilled athletes on the planet imo. 

Also though, fatigue is going to be an issue in any sport. Even in basketball, a player may come out and make five or six threes in a row in warm-ups and then miss his shots in a game. Doing it from a rest in warm-ups vs. in a game while being covered is always an entirely different thing.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> The older generation takes their cues from Jim Rome and Simon Cowherd who think it's cool to hate soccer. They have the mindset of ten-year-olds who are just thinking what daddy taught them to think. Heaven forbid they should actually think for themselves. That's not to say it's not okay to like other sports more. But 'hating' soccer really speaks to their own insecurities.





So,  you think that anyone who doesn't like soccer is insecure and not thinking for themselves? Really? And *you* are criticizing other people's attitude? Wow.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> The best soccer players are the most skilled athletes on the planet imo. .








What an objective evaluation...


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 12, 2014)

Montrovant said:


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Keepers try to concentrate on where they think the ball will be based on its flight pattern. That's how they're able to cover large spaces within the goal. Tactical anticipation basically. The best in the game, guys like Buffon, Casillas, Neuer etc have mastered this facet of their role and while also commanding their backline. As a result, these guys concede far less goals than other teams. The situation in which a keeper has no chance is with perfectly placed strikes from an attacker to simply unreachable parts of the goal. These types of goals are pretty rare, but very spectacular when scored. The difference though is that they are scored by players of all types of levels from nobodies to Messi.

As for low-scoring...Americans are not used to 1-goal=1-point sports. We're used to multiple points award for singular actions: Touchdowns, 3-pointers, bases-loaded home runs etc. When they take that mentality and try to apply it to soccer, it simply doesn't hash. I will also say that it depends on what teams are playing and what league they're in. The best teams rarely win 1-0 or draw 0-0. They have too much attacking talent for that. Every league has games that are just downright boring, but some have more than others. For instance, the Belgian league is extremely boring and if you base incorrect assertions off of what you see there, of course you'll hate soccer. Watch the right teams, the right leagues and the right players and the game can be seen in a very different light.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Also though, fatigue is going to be an issue in any sport. Even in basketball...





Wait, what? "Even" in basketball?

???


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 2. Have you seen the legs of most soccer players? They likely can squat significantly more than the athletes of the other sports..







If you think soccer players "can squat significantly more than" professional football players, for example, you are even further out of touch with reality than I thought.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> 3. Probably, most soccer players could dunk a basketball btw. .




No, probably most of them cannot.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> > 2. Have you seen the legs of most soccer players? They likely can squat significantly more than the athletes of the other sports..
> ...



Actually, I could see linebackers and linemen who are big and need drive with their legs be able to squat more than the average soccer player. But a safety or CB or WR, nah. The point is that athletes build their bodies relative to what they're performing. So, saying so and so can bench this is stupid. And in fact, many NBA players have a terrible bench. Durant probably has a terrible bench.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

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Let's see the stats. Pull em' up.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 12, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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> > 3. Probably, most soccer players could dunk a basketball btw. .
> ...



Even if not; you don't have any sort of real point (as usual).


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 12, 2014)

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You've went into bo-tard mode.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 12, 2014)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fJSDm68CB8]Kevin Durant & Lebron James Working Out at the University of Akron! - YouTube[/ame]

Kevin Durant and LBJ are great players; but you'll notice that the amount of weight they're lifting is far from impressive.....Again, what a person lifts in the weight room is often not very relative to a player's performance in his respective sport. If you're still arguing otherwise; well, that's cos you're a moron, and everyone knows it.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

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I didn't bring it up, you did. You're over-excited.


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

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So, you got those stats or what?


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## Unkotare (Mar 12, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Kevin Durant & Lebron James Working Out at the University of Akron! - YouTube
> 
> Kevin Durant and LBJ are great players; but you'll notice that the amount of weight they're lifting is far from impressive.....Again, what a person lifts in the weight room is often not very relative to a player's performance in his respective sport. If you're still arguing otherwise; well, that's cos you're a moron, and everyone knows it.





*You* are also the one who brought up squats and bench press. I know you feel as if your little binky is under attack, but you've _got_ to calm down and try thinking rationally.


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## Montrovant (Mar 12, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


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I'm a long-time hockey fan, so I am actually used to 1 score = 1 point.  And hockey is sometimes low scoring, and those games can still be exciting and fun.

My point about the low score is only in relation to the size of the goal and the fact that there is a single goalkeeper defending it.

As I said, I realize that both the rules of the game and the ability of keepers to play the angles will cut down on the available space for a shooter to use; however, the way you described the accuracy of soccer players kicking the ball, the speed and range, it seems that even with the mitigating factors it would lead to much higher scores than I'm used to seeing in the few cases I pay attention to soccer scores.

I'm sure different leagues have a different dynamic.  There has been at least one 'arena' soccer league if I remember correctly, with a smaller field and smaller goals.  I'm still likely to never be a soccer fan.  Hockey gives me much of the same type of game, but with hitting and the ability to go faster.  And, of course, smaller goals!


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 12, 2014)

Montrovant said:


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Professional soccer games actually tend to be boring when they're high scoring. When that occurs, that means that a lot of tactical errors on the back line or giveaways in the midfield have occurred. When played well, there is a lot of nuance and strategy. 

2-1 is usually a pretty fun score line. 3-2 and 4-3 can be exciting if it's a matter of just spectacular plays canceling out good defense. But anything over that, as I mentioned, is almost surely due to sloppiness and mental breakdowns.


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## DGS49 (Mar 14, 2014)

The question was raised as to whether top-level soccer players are great athletes (when compared to top-level players at other sports).

Obviously, soccer players can run, and they can run for a relatively long period of time, although I dispute the claim that they are running continuously for 90 monutes (45, to be more accurate).  Most of that time they are just jogging around.  And of course they have big legs.  So what?  Football linemen have legs that are as big as most soccer players' waists.

But being able to run and kick a ball is only one part of being athletic.  Great soccer players can do amazing things WITH THEIR LEGS AND FEET, but they are only amazing because they are done with their legs and feet.  I fthey were doing the same things with their hands it would be no big deal.  Nothing a soccer player does requires as much skill as playing tennis, pitching baseball, golfing, or playing basketball at the top levels.  They are kicking a fucking ball, for goodness sake.

As far as upper body strength, the fact that it is not required to have strong arms to play soccer is irrelevant; it is required to be a top athlete.  If a bowler has a giant, strong right arm does that make him a great athlete?  Of course not.

The reason why soccer will never have mass appeal in the U.S. is because the higher the level of competition, the fewer goals will be scored.  You could show all of the highlights of the entire World Cup tournament in a fifteen minute video - the championship game in 30 seconds, tops.

Wake me up when it's over.


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 14, 2014)

Baseball is so fucking boring. This is great news!

World Cup right around the corner too!


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 14, 2014)

When I can't sleep I turn on a baseball game, between the commercials and overall lack of activity it puts me right out


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## Unkotare (Mar 14, 2014)

A lot of people can't appreciate baseball, and that's fine. No one is going to pretend you are supposed to be pulling your hair out every minute of the game, or incessantly blowing on some plastic horn, or burning down the stadium, etc.


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## Toro (Mar 14, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> A lot of people can't appreciate baseball, and that's fine. No one is going to pretend you are supposed to be pulling your hair out every minute of the game, or incessantly blowing on some plastic horn, or burning down the stadium, etc.



That's because all the fans coming out of the baseball stadium are comatose.





Kidding!  Kidding!


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 14, 2014)

Toro said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of people can't appreciate baseball, and that's fine. No one is going to pretend you are supposed to be pulling your hair out every minute of the game, or incessantly blowing on some plastic horn, or burning down the stadium, etc.
> ...



Your point is null and void to Unko, as Jim Rome hasn't yet given him orders to hate on baseball.


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## Moonglow (Mar 14, 2014)

That's great, I guess,  I won't watch soccer.....


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## CrusaderFrank (Mar 14, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> A lot of people can't appreciate baseball, and that's fine. No one is going to pretend you are supposed to be pulling your hair out every minute of the game, or incessantly blowing on some plastic horn, or burning down the stadium, etc.



Yeah. I had the misfortune of being a rabid Yankee fan right after Mantle and Maris retired.

I remember when they didn't have to bring out a new baseball for every pitch.

Baseball today is just unwatchable


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## Unkotare (Mar 14, 2014)

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> Toro said:
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Still protecting your binky, precious? Your prissy little attitude certainly fits most Americans' view of soccer. Way to go, Mr. Ambassador.


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## Unkotare (Mar 14, 2014)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > A lot of people can't appreciate baseball, and that's fine. No one is going to pretend you are supposed to be pulling your hair out every minute of the game, or incessantly blowing on some plastic horn, or burning down the stadium, etc.
> ...





Baseball is as great as it always was, for those who appreciate the game. For those who don't, that's fine. Lots of other options.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 14, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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What a great 'open' attitude. Funny how it applies to your pre-approved sport and not another. You're a joke__


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## Unkotare (Mar 15, 2014)

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> Unkotare said:
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## Spiderman (Mar 15, 2014)

Toro said:


> That's pretty stunning IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Soccer and baseball are both equally boring.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 15, 2014)

Spiderman said:


> Toro said:
> 
> 
> > That's pretty stunning IMHO.
> ...



Clearly, you haven't been to a World Series game or World Cup match live.


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## Dr Grump (Mar 15, 2014)

It's interesting how Americans find soccer boring. I find all American sports boring as anything. Baseball and NFL especially. I can see why people like basketball, but ice hockey? you can't even see the puck, just players reacting to it...

Rugby League is my sport of choice, quickly followed by soccer....


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## Spiderman (Mar 16, 2014)

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> Spiderman said:
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Why would I spend hundreds of dollars to be bored for 3 hours?


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 16, 2014)

Spiderman said:


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Yea--when they pan on the fans, boredom is clearly what comes to mind. I agree that you don't want to shell out the big bucks if you're not a fan of the team though.


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## Montrovant (Mar 16, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Spiderman said:
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I was there when the Mets clinched the pennant in 86, is that close enough?  

I find baseball boring.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 16, 2014)

Montrovant said:


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I doubt you would've been there if you thought it was boring....But if you're talking in general, then maybe. I myself watch a fraction of the baseball I used to watch. I wouldn't say its cos I'm bored as much as I tend to think there are better things I can do with my time.


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## Montrovant (Mar 16, 2014)

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I was only 11 or 12 at the time, it wasn't really up to me that I went.  I honestly don't know if I cared about the game at all, but the crowd pouring onto the field afterward I remember being exciting.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 16, 2014)

Montrovant said:


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Obviously, it's different if you're 11 or 12 and aren't there of your full free will and not into it. Anyhow...if you think baseball's boring then that's your deal. Frankly, all sports have been relatively 'boring' to me at one time or another. So, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to make of that anyways. 

I personally like baseball live for the fact that tickets are cheaper, the game's are longer and outdoors and it ends up being a fun place to chill with friends and other people. The actual game is usually secondary to me anyways.


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## Montrovant (Mar 16, 2014)

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I've never been that kind of person.  I don't go to a game to socialize, I go to see the game!  Especially with the way prices are, it's not something I'd do just to hang out.  

I think baseball is just a fairly poor spectator sport.  I don't know how much is the game itself and how much the slow pace at which it's usually played, but it is not something I ever choose to watch.  

It may be a better live experience than other sports in some ways.  I generally don't consider that when I'm talking about sports as I have only rarely gone to see games live.


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## DGS49 (Mar 17, 2014)

"I think baseball is just a fairly poor spectator sport."

Hmmm.

In 2013, 74 million people paid to go to MLB games, with an average attendance of about 31 thousand per game.  This is 31 thousand people going to each of EIGHTY-ONE home games, as compared to...what?... 8 home games in football?

Clearly, it is a "...fairly poor spectator sport."  Too bad nobody mentions that to the people who pay their hard-earned money to go to the games and watch.

Like many sports, baseball can be excruciatingly boring unless you understand what's going on.  Just like soccer.  Just like cricket.  Just like chess.


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## Montrovant (Mar 17, 2014)

DGS49 said:


> "I think baseball is just a fairly poor spectator sport."
> 
> Hmmm.
> 
> ...



That is always the excuse of baseball fans : 'You don't understand what's going on'.  It's asinine.  I understand what's going on, I just don't find much excitement in it usually.

Like I said, I'm not really considering the live experiences of the various sports.  That involves more than just the enjoyment of watching the sport; it's also about cost, location, availability, and other factors.  I'm basically talking about televised sports.  I find baseball fairly boring to watch on tv.


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## Unkotare (Mar 17, 2014)

Viewership during the 2013 World Series was up 20%.


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## DGS49 (Mar 18, 2014)

Let's switch dead horses for a moment.  You say that  baseball is boring, and I point out to you that the millions of people who watch it don't find it boring at all, because they KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON when nobody is hitting a home run.

Now switch to soccer (or if you prefer, "football").  A bunch of guys kicking a ball around a big grassy field.  For 95% of the game, there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE THAT ANYTHING WILL HAPPEN THAT COULD AFFECT THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME.  The ball is at least 50 yards (47 metres to you) away from the goal.  A couple times during each half, the ball moves in closer so that a goal is POSSIBLE, but most of the time one of the nancies kicks it away and its 50 yards out again.

Clearly, a soccer fan would not see the game the same way I do, because I "don't understand the game."

You would have to pay me at least $50 to sit through a professional soccer game, buy me a beer and pay for my parking as well.  It would be torture.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 18, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Viewership during the 2013 World Series was up 20%.



*The 2013 World Series got less ratings than every single World Series between 1984-2004.*


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## Montrovant (Mar 18, 2014)

DGS49 said:


> Let's switch dead horses for a moment.  You say that  baseball is boring, and I point out to you that the millions of people who watch it don't find it boring at all, because they KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON when nobody is hitting a home run.
> 
> Now switch to soccer (or if you prefer, "football").  A bunch of guys kicking a ball around a big grassy field.  For 95% of the game, there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE THAT ANYTHING WILL HAPPEN THAT COULD AFFECT THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME.  The ball is at least 50 yards (47 metres to you) away from the goal.  A couple times during each half, the ball moves in closer so that a goal is POSSIBLE, but most of the time one of the nancies kicks it away and its 50 yards out again.
> 
> ...



I'll say it again.  I know what is going on in a baseball game.  I still think it's boring.

I also think soccer is boring.  I don't watch soccer, never have, because I find it boring.

More, although I think the US should switch to the metric system, I am a born and raised US citizen, so I don't think in terms of meters.  I'm also an NFL fan, so yards are very comfortable to me when talking sports.

The only sport I watch regularly is football.  I also watch hockey and MMA, but more sporadically (that's more a matter of availability than desire).  I've watched baseball games, and even occasionally found at least some of a baseball game exciting.  On the average, however, compared to many other spectator sports, baseball is pretty dull.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 18, 2014)

Montrovant said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> > Let's switch dead horses for a moment.  You say that  baseball is boring, and I point out to you that the millions of people who watch it don't find it boring at all, because they KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON when nobody is hitting a home run.
> ...



And what do you think that you telling us about your 'boredome' issues is supposed to accomplish?


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## Unkotare (Mar 18, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Viewership during the 2013 World Series was up 20%.
> ...



MLB Continues to See Postseason TV Ratings Increase up Over 2012 - Forbes


Doomsayers be damned: Baseball is healthy and ratings are strong | HardballTalk


2013 World Series ratings up +12% | MLB.com: News


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 18, 2014)

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Who are these doomsayers? All of the major sports are multi-billion dollar industries. Not sure why you care so much about some marginal numbers. It's not like you own stock in these teams.


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## Montrovant (Mar 19, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Montrovant said:
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What do you think telling us you like baseball live is supposed to accomplish?  

I wasn't really speaking to you.  I was replying to DGS49, who seems to be making the point that anyone who considers baseball a dull game doesn't 'get it'.  I've heard that from baseball fans before and I think it's ridiculous.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 19, 2014)

Montrovant said:


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Not sure I even said I like baseball; nor am I the one who brought it up.

I think the idea of someone complaining about a sport being boring is like me complaining that knitting is boring. It may not be my thing, but I won't be so dense as to not see why people are into it and drone on about my boredom issues.


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## Montrovant (Mar 19, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Montrovant said:
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If you're concerned I'm 'droning on', you can either skip my posts or put me on ignore.  It's you who's decided to harp on the conversation yet continue to be part of it.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 19, 2014)

Montrovant said:


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I'm taking into account the many times you've complained about soccer/baseball with the droning. For someone not into it, you sure love to complain about it.


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## DGS49 (Mar 20, 2014)

OK.  I concede the point.  Baseball can be boring even if you know the sport intimately.

The sport in America has the advantage that most boys have enough exposure to understand the game (which foreigners find inscrutable), so they can decide rationally later on in life whether they want to follow it and be "fans."

Soccer has historically had the disadvantage here that it was a relatively esoteric sport that only "foreigners" understood.  And if you don't understand the game, watching a World Cup match that ends 1-0 is not even a possibility.  Shoot me, please.

As implied by the OP, this is changing as more and more American kids are playing soccer, and understand the game.

But can it ever become a "major" sport in the U.S.?  Comparable to football, baseball, basketball, auto racing, or even hockey?

Not in my lifetime.

Use as your metric (1) the average player salary or (2) total individual team revenues, and soccer is not even on the radar screen of major sports in the U.S.


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## Unkotare (Mar 20, 2014)

DGS49 said:


> OK.  I concede the point.  Baseball can be boring even if you know the sport intimately.
> 
> The sport in America has the advantage that most boys have enough exposure to understand the game (which foreigners find inscrutable), so they can decide rationally later on in life whether they want to follow it and be "fans."




Many, many "foreigners" understand baseball just fine.


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## Montrovant (Mar 20, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


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It doesn't matter what you're taking into account.  If you think I'm droning on, ignore me! 

You're droning on about my droning on.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 20, 2014)

Montrovant said:


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Just saying.... I may not be all that into (watching) golf. But I don't have to always be talking about how 'boring' it is.


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## Unkotare (Mar 20, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Montrovant said:
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Do you have any idea how boring you are being on this thread?


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 20, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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I have an idea of how much of a pestilent, uninspired dick face you are.


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## Unkotare (Mar 20, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


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You need to relax, Nigel. Go have a jog a round with your ball, precious. Don't worry, you can be absolutely certain nothing will happen for at least an hour and a half.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 20, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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bla, bla dick face.


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## Montrovant (Mar 20, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


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If you think 3 or 4 posts, in a thread in which others (including you) started conversing about whether or not soccer or baseball are boring before me, constitutes 'always talking about it' I'm not sure how to respond.  You seem to be talking about it as much as I have been.  

Why are you always talking about me thinking baseball and soccer are boring?


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## Jughead (Mar 20, 2014)

Toro said:


> That's pretty stunning IMHO.
> 
> 
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That is unexpected. No surprise that NFL topped the list, however I would have thought for sure that popularity for MLB would have exceeded popularity for MLS. Maybe the fact that World Cup Soccer is being held this year (after a 4 year hiatus) has influenced the 12 to 17 year olds.

Either way, it's great to see that some teenagers are avid sports fans. It's even better when their interest leads to participation in the sport.


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## Misty (Mar 20, 2014)

Even just playing goalie is so hard. I was goalie and I got the crap beat out of me. yet was undefeated.   cuz I'm awesome at keeping balls out of my goal.


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## Unkotare (Mar 20, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> bla, bla dick face.





And with that we see the very uppermost range of your discursive abilities.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 22, 2014)

Just reminding you why you became a baseball fan. 'Take it in.'


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 23, 2014)

What a weekend its been in the English and Spanish leagues. I've seen close to 60 goals scored. Not bad for a sport that allegedly doesn't have enough scoring.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 23, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> What a weekend its been in the English and Spanish leagues. I've seen close to 60 goals scored. Not bad for a sport that allegedly doesn't have enough scoring.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk



Meh....

Goals scored is a farce anyhow. Real soccer fans will tell you that it comes down to the intricacies and great skills. If the ADHD boys want to complain there's not enough scoring, that's their deal.


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 23, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Merchant_of_Meh said:
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> > What a weekend its been in the English and Spanish leagues. I've seen close to 60 goals scored. Not bad for a sport that allegedly doesn't have enough scoring.
> ...



Not just been the quantity though. Quality has been there too...some real golazos scored over the top leagues. I agree in practice though. I am a purist at heart when it comes to the game itself. I appreciate the nuances greatly, but also recognize the more mainstream qualities. Weekends like this are perfect for those who are newcomers to the sport. El Clasico was a real advertisement, I felt as well.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Moonglow (Mar 23, 2014)

I don't care what sport kids are playing as long as they are getting exercise and  having fun.


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## Unkotare (Mar 23, 2014)

As I said, it's a fine little game for women and children...


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## Dr Grump (Mar 23, 2014)

DGS49 said:


> The question was raised as to whether top-level soccer players are great athletes (when compared to top-level players at other sports).
> 
> Obviously, soccer players can run, and they can run for a relatively long period of time, although I dispute the claim that they are running continuously for 90 monutes (45, to be more accurate).  Most of that time they are just jogging around.  And of course they have big legs.  So what?  Football linemen have legs that are as big as most soccer players' waists.
> 
> ...



What a load of tosh. The very fact they do use their feet to do such amazing things is the point. With tennis, baseball and gridiron they are using their primary limbs used for co ordination - their hands. That gives them a massive advantage.

The whole point of football (soccer) is that how they get there to score goals. As for not enough goals, you obviously didn't watch the EPL this weekend. Chelsea 6 - Arsenal 0, Liverpool 6 - Cardiff 3.

You could watch the whole Super Bowl highlights in about three minutes, but you have to sit through FOUR HOURS to watch the damn thing. Snore fest. And don't even get me started on coma-inducing baseball.

Baseball players are throwing a ball for fucks sake, a basketball player is bouncing a ball for fucks sake.... you get the picture..


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Mar 23, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> As I said, it's a fine little game for women and children...



Not enough violence for you?


Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## Dr Grump (Mar 23, 2014)

DGS49 said:


> Let's switch dead horses for a moment.  You say that  baseball is boring, and I point out to you that the millions of people who watch it don't find it boring at all, because they KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON when nobody is hitting a home run.
> 
> Now switch to soccer (or if you prefer, "football").  A bunch of guys kicking a ball around a big grassy field.  For 95% of the game, there is ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE THAT ANYTHING WILL HAPPEN THAT COULD AFFECT THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME.  The ball is at least 50 yards (47 metres to you) away from the goal.  A couple times during each half, the ball moves in closer so that a goal is POSSIBLE, but most of the time one of the nancies kicks it away and its 50 yards out again.
> 
> ...



Speaking of not understanding a game. 99 percent of the time something could happen to affect an outcome in football. The goal is close to the goal a huge amount of the time.

Torture? I don't need sleeping pills - I just switch over to ESPN and watch a baseball game or NFL game and I'm out in seconds...


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## Moonglow (Mar 23, 2014)

Greco-Roman wrestling exercises all muscles in the body....


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## Unkotare (Mar 23, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > As I said, it's a fine little game for women and children...
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For one thing...


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## Unkotare (Mar 23, 2014)

Moonglow said:


> Greco-Roman wrestling exercises all muscles in the body....





Why specify greco? So does freestyle, folk style, Sumo, Ssireum, etc.


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 23, 2014)

Dr Grump said:


> DGS49 said:
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> > The question was raised as to whether top-level soccer players are great athletes (when compared to top-level players at other sports).
> ...



LOL - I don't agree with the minimization of the baseball/basketball/football players' skills and expertise. But you are essentially mirroring their lame argumentation style. So, there's that.


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## Toro (Mar 23, 2014)

Merchant_of_Meh said:


> What a weekend its been in the English and Spanish leagues. I've seen close to 60 goals scored. Not bad for a sport that allegedly doesn't have enough scoring.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk



Cardiff 3-6 Liverpool



Real 3-4 Barca

Some great matches.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 24, 2014)

JimH52 said:


> Shows you how far baseball has fallen....uuughhh



The players and the owners did it themselves.Its not surprising really.Its hard for kids to love baseball these days when players are moving from one team to another playing the game for the love of the money instead of the love for the game.

Cal Ripken was the last of his breed and the last of his we will see where players stayed with one team their entire career.

 Im glad I got to see him the last few years of his playing career when the orioles visited the royals here in Kc.I will treasure that a long time.It was the same as when I got to watch George Brett his entire time here.You knew you were watching a legend.

the good old days are sadly gone now where players like Brett and Ripken played the game for the love of the game instead of the money. with soccer,they are pretty much playing it for the love of the game,they dont make anywhere near the big bucks that baseball does I have to assume?


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## Unkotare (Mar 24, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


> JimH52 said:
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Grow up, that's every _professional_ sport.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 24, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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I took you off ignore because i figured at LEAST in the sports section,you wouldnt act so childish.Looks like I figured wrong.


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## Unkotare (Mar 24, 2014)

9/11 inside job said:


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Did they let you out of the Conspiracy Forum on furlough? Bad move.


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## LA RAM FAN (Mar 24, 2014)

someone farted in here.


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## Unkotare (Mar 24, 2014)

Yup, definitely a bad move...


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 24, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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The irony of you telling anyone to grow up.....


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## Unkotare (Mar 24, 2014)

TheGreatGatsby said:


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Are you here for your daily hissy-fit?


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## TheGreatGatsby (Mar 24, 2014)

Unkotare said:


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That's a ludicrous notion. I'm not surprised to see your (ironically) juvenile response.


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## Unkotare (Jul 29, 2014)

Hey, remember when virtually no US citizens gave a shit about soccer? Yeah, it's still like that. Now that the World Nap is over, the tiny percentage who pretended to give a shit have moved on again. 


Good times...


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## TheGreatGatsby (Jul 29, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Hey, remember when virtually no US citizens gave a shit about soccer? Yeah, it's still like that. Now that the World Nap is over, the tiny percentage who pretended to give a shit have moved on again.
> 
> Good times...



You still talking?


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## Unkotare (Jul 29, 2014)

You still waiting for someone to pull off the earth-shattering miracle of kicking a little ball into an enormous net? 

I guess all your painting is done...


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