# The Hostess-Twinkie who did what to kill it/them thread



## bitterlyclingin (Nov 14, 2012)

[The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
Richard Trumka says he's going to send his union goons door to door to convince American businessmen to see the light regarding Obamanomics.]

"Back in September, following acceptance by the Teamsters. the bakers union (BCTGM) at bankrupt Hostess brandsmakers of the iconic Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder brand breadsrejected a company proposal to help keep the company in business. By a voice vote of its members, the union opened the door to conduct a company-killing strike and potentially putting 18,500 Hostess workers onto the streets. 

Well, on Friday, the bakers union called its members on strike nationwide. Now the job cuts begin.

On Monday, Hostess permanently closed three of its plants, thanks to the unions strike: 

Hostess Brands permanently closed three bakeries Monday, including a plant in St. Louis where 365 jobs were cut, in response to a bakers union strike that started Friday.

The bankrupt maker of Twinkies and Wonder bread said its trying to avert liquidating the entire company, and it shuttered three plants that were no longer able to produce and deliver products because of picket lines. The other plant closures are in Seattle and Cincinnati, where a combined 262 jobs were cut."

The Demise of Twinkies? Yes, It&#8217;s True. Parasitic Unions Kill Their Hosts (or, in this case, Hostess) | RedState


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## SniperFire (Nov 14, 2012)

Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China. 

Thanks for collapsing another great American institution, Union filth.


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 14, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> 
> Thanks for collapsing another great American institution, Union filth.


Although I hate seeing American jobs lost, for whatever reason, Twinkies are poisonous and should *never* be consumed by *anybody*.

Wanna' ruin yer health? Just keep eating all that Hostess garbage.


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## Truthmatters (Nov 14, 2012)

hahahahahahahahahahahahah


workers have rights even if you dont want them to have rights.



sell your hate of workers to the American people.

Im sure they love twinkies more than freedom.

Jesus you people just dont get it


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## SniperFire (Nov 14, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> ...



Well, I can't argue that!


LOL


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## Katzndogz (Nov 14, 2012)

If obama hadn't paid off the unions, they would have killed GM too.

Hostess can move out of the country.   They have worldwide distribution now.   Just liquidate here and expand to a more hospitable place.


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## SniperFire (Nov 14, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> If obama hadn't paid off the unions, they would have killed GM too.
> 
> Hostess can move out of the country.   They have worldwide distribution now.   *Just liquidate here and expand to a more hospitable place.*



Sort of like what Jeep and GM are doing - but on the taxpayer dime.


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## Oddball (Nov 14, 2012)

Some things are worth fighting for!


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## Truthmatters (Nov 14, 2012)

more fucking lies.

jesus you people just dont get it.

Fox better reeducate you soon


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## SniperFire (Nov 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> more fucking lies.
> 
> jesus you people just dont get it.
> 
> Fox better reeducate you soon


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## Mad Scientist (Nov 14, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> workers have rights even if you dont want them to have rights.
> sell your hate of workers to the American people. Im sure they love twinkies more than freedom. Jesus you people just dont get it


You don't see what they did? They wanted to get back at management but the only f*cked *themselves!

*I hate all that Hostess crappola! But if people wanna' eat it, thats their choice. But now the Unions are actively trying to take away that choice from the consumer.*

You honestly don't see that?
*


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## konradv (Nov 14, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > more fucking lies.
> ...



Whew, I know we've been adversaries, but I read the post title and thought you'd passed.


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## GuyPinestra (Nov 14, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> ...



You're asking TdM for honesty??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


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## SniperFire (Nov 14, 2012)

konradv said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



I hate Communists; that is a certainty.


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## Mr. H. (Nov 14, 2012)

I've got an 8 year old Twinkie. LOL


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## RoadVirus (Nov 14, 2012)

Unions were once a good thing. They fought for safety in the workplace and decent wages.

Now Unions are nothing but money laundering schemes for Democrats.


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## American_Jihad (Nov 15, 2012)

Fvck da union

*Hostess Brands on the Brink*​
November 15, 2012 By Arnold Ahlert 

Few things are sadder than the triumph of ideology over reality. Yet it appears that the bakers union at Hostess Brands, an iconic company best known for such products as Wonder Bread and Twinkies, prefers running the company completely into the ground, rather than accept the necessary cuts in employees&#8217; pay, health and pension plans that would keep it afloat. On Monday, another dose of reality was added to the mix: Chief Executive Gregory Rayburn announced that Hostess would be shutting down plants in Seattle, St. Louis and Cincinnati&#8211;permanently. Six-hundred twenty-seven jobs will be lost permanently. &#8221;Our customers will not be affected because we will continue to serve them from other Hostess Brands bakeries,&#8221; said Rayburn in a press release. &#8220;We deeply regret this decision, but..we will close the entire company if widespread strikes cripple our business.&#8221;

The unions apparently can&#8217;t read the writing on the wall. Hostess filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in January 2012 for the second time since 2004. The company cited the high cost of pensions and outstanding debt as the reasons for that filing. In October, the company filed a plan with the federal bankruptcy court in New York. It called for an 8 percent cut to employees&#8217; wages, a reduction in health benefits, and a freeze in pension plan payments for over two years. In return, unionized employees would get a 25 percent equity stake in the company, two seats on its board of directors, and an interest-bearing note worth $100 million. The 8 percent wage cut was part of a five-year deal that included a 3 percent wage increase in the next three years and a 1 percent raise in the final year.

---
Hostess Brands on the Brink


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## Glensather (Nov 15, 2012)

Oh thank God.
I fucking hate Twinkies.


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## Unkotare (Nov 15, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> ...




You're welcome to make that decision for your own life, Bloomberg. Let others decide for themselves.


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## American_Jihad (Nov 15, 2012)

Glensather said:


> Oh thank God.
> I fucking hate Twinkies.



You hate God and yet you thank him, typical liberal...

By the way, I hate union "leaders"...


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## occupied (Nov 15, 2012)

The real parasites are the fucking board, after giving themselves a huge pay raise in July, $750,000 to $2,550,000 in the case of the CEO, they demanded workers take substantial pay and pension cuts. If the company is in such bad shape why the unwillingness to share the pain? Those assholes are going to loot the company, leave with juicy golden parachutes and stick it to the people who worked there for years and the workers are the bad people for getting upset and trying to fight.


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## American_Jihad (Nov 15, 2012)

occupied said:


> The real parasites are the fucking board, after giving themselves a huge pay raise in July, $750,000 to $2,550,000 in the case of the CEO, they demanded workers take substantial pay and pension cuts. If the company is in such bad shape why the unwillingness to share the pain? Those assholes are going to loot the company, leave with juicy golden parachutes and stick it to the people who worked there for years and the workers are the bad people for getting upset and trying to fight.



You need to get the new money...


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## occupied (Nov 15, 2012)

American_Jihad said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > The real parasites are the fucking board, after giving themselves a huge pay raise in July, $750,000 to $2,550,000 in the case of the CEO, they demanded workers take substantial pay and pension cuts. If the company is in such bad shape why the unwillingness to share the pain? Those assholes are going to loot the company, leave with juicy golden parachutes and stick it to the people who worked there for years and the workers are the bad people for getting upset and trying to fight.
> ...



You need to know the sick feeling of the head office suits cutting your pay and robbing your pension plan.


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## Locke11_21 (Nov 16, 2012)

occupied said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



You need to know the sick feeling of the Democrat-Union money landering scheme where every taxpayer is having money stolen from them through taxes, yes our taxes pay for public sector unions, who when they charge their members dues, the money goes right back to the Democrat Party.  Yeah.  Or how about how the United Auto Workers Unions and SEIU stealing money from Medicaid that is meant for disabled children

Democrat Money-Laundering Scheme Steals Millions Of Dollars From Disabled To Fund SEIU « The Daley Gator


Yeah, next time you see a Union claiming how much they love children, bring this one up and see how they react.  I am just hoping in the 2014 and 2016 elections at local, state and federal election levels, we see a multitude of anti-union candidates win, and they implement policies that will so completely destroy unions, they will never recover from it.  The best thing that can happen to the U.S. and its economy is the complete and total destruction of unions.


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## bucs90 (Nov 16, 2012)

Why dont they just reopen the plant to a non-union state..like South Carolina?

I think their business is hurt as much by the emerging trend of eating healthier than just the unions. Revenue is down because people have wised up to the idea that eating shitty food will kill you.


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## American_Jihad (Nov 16, 2012)

*Teamsters: Bakery Workers Should Hold Secret Ballot Vote at Hostess*

November 15, 2012 

Unannounced Strike Has Put Thousands of Jobs in Jeopardy 

(WASHINGTON) &#8211; Today, the Teamsters Union announced its recommendation to the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco and Grain Millers International Union (BCTGM) that a vote of its Hostess members by secret ballot should be held to determine if the workers want to continue their strike of the company and force it into liquidation.

On Wednesday, Nov. 14, Hostess Brands indicated that if it couldn&#8217;t resume normal operations by 5 p.m. EST on Thursday, Nov. 15 that it would have to begin the liquidation process. Teamster Hostess members and all Hostess employees should know this is not an empty threat or a negotiating tactic, but the certain outcome if members of the BCTGM continue to strike. This is based on conversations with our financial experts, who, because the Teamsters were involved in the legal process, had access to financial information about the company.

---

occupied, see this, it's called a link::: http://www.teamster.org/content/teamsters-bakery-workers-should-hold-secret-ballot-vote-hostess


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## ScienceRocks (Nov 16, 2012)

America is finished unless we can beat the fucking unions.


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## occupied (Nov 16, 2012)

Matthew said:


> America is finished unless we can beat the fucking unions.



Unions have never been more powerless and are the last defender of the company pension but you people still press the attack. After the company pension is a distant memory, you've allowed Wall Street to rob all the private retirement accounts and you people kill SS I just wonder how any of us will live when we are old. That is what is at stake here, not just some shitty snack food or a pissing contest with unions, the very foundation of working class retirement is under attack by the plutocrats with the full support of a legion of blue collar right wing assholes who do not seem to even notice that they are cutting their own throats. They are not going to allow any of us a comfortable old age, be prepared to work until the day you die.


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## OKTexas (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> 
> 
> workers have rights even if you dont want them to have rights.
> ...



Well they're getting their freedom, to seek employment elsewhere. Let them eat cake.


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## OKTexas (Nov 16, 2012)

bucs90 said:


> Why dont they just reopen the plant to a non-union state..like South Carolina?
> 
> I think their business is hurt as much by the emerging trend of eating healthier than just the unions. Revenue is down because people have wised up to the idea that eating shitty food will kill you.



The cost of their raw ingredients is up 40-80% thanks to the governments food to fuel programs.


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## Political Junky (Nov 16, 2012)

Twinkie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Enriched wheat flour, sugar, corn syrup, niacin, water, high fructose corn syrup, vegetable and/or animal shortening &#8211; containing one or more of partially hydrogenated soybean, cottonseed and canola oil, and beef fat, dextrose, whole eggs, modified corn starch, cellulose gum, whey, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, monocalcium phosphate), salt, cornstarch, corn flour, corn syrup, solids, mono and diglycerides, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, dextrin, calcium caseinate, sodium stearoyl lactylate, wheat gluten, calcium sulphate, natural and artificial flavors, caramel color, yellow #5, red #40.[7]

A single Twinkie contains 2.5 grams of saturated fat, representing 13% of the recommended daily intake of saturated fat based on a 2,000 calorie diet.[8]


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## Bigfoot (Nov 16, 2012)

I am going to buy a couple of boxes of Twinkies tomorrow, they are good.


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## Photonic (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> 
> Thanks for collapsing another great American institution, Union filth.



Because all the problems in the world are caused by workers not putting up with being pissed on.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 16, 2012)

The news media is treating this like a joke, Tee..hee...heee, we can say "Twinkies" and "Ding dongs" in a news report.   

The reality is, a big hedge fund bought up this company that had been around for 85 years, and as they are wont to do, they started squeezing the employees for concessions in order to pay themselves dividends and bonuses.  In short, everything that has been wrong with this economy for the last 30 years.  

The unions already made concessions on pay and pensions, and instead of using that money to invest in new equipment, the HEdge fund just looted the money.  And now they are in crisis, partially because of the bad decisions, partially because we are more health conscious and not eating as much of that garbage, and partially because the working folks there actually have the ability to say "Enough".


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## daveman (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> 
> 
> workers have rights even if you dont want them to have rights.
> ...


Oh, no, we get it.  Union members are now unemployed -- by their own choice.  

Yeah, THAT'LL show the company!

Idiots.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 16, 2012)

daveman said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> ...



The hedge fund that tried to loot the company is going to take a loss, too.  So, yeah, that will show them.  They have a bunch of facilities they can't sell easily.  They can probalby sell the brand names off to other people, but frankly, their competitors already have their cheap copies. 

The unions already made concessions, and the Hedge Fund just paid themselves bonuses instead of fixing what ailed the company...


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## Steelplate (Nov 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> The news media is treating this like a joke, Tee..hee...heee, we can say "Twinkies" and "Ding dongs" in a news report.
> 
> The reality is, a big hedge fund bought up this company that had been around for 85 years, and as they are wont to do, they started squeezing the employees for concessions in order to pay themselves dividends and bonuses.  In short, everything that has been wrong with this economy for the last 30 years.
> 
> The unions already made concessions on pay and pensions, and instead of using that money to invest in new equipment, the HEdge fund just looted the money.  And now they are in crisis, partially because of the bad decisions, partially because we are more health conscious and not eating as much of that garbage, and partially because the working folks there actually have the ability to say "Enough".



But......but.....Vulture Capitalism is GOOD!


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## JoeB131 (Nov 16, 2012)

Steelplate said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > The news media is treating this like a joke, Tee..hee...heee, we can say "Twinkies" and "Ding dongs" in a news report.
> ...



The Hedge Fund offered the Union 25% of Hostess's debt in their offer. Wasn't that generous of them?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 16, 2012)

Here's a list of the concessions the unions made to keep Hostess afloat...

http://bctgm.org/PDFs/HostessFactSheet.pdf

Hostess first entered bankruptcy in 2004 after a failed restructuring attempt. During the first bankruptcy, which lasted 4.5 years, BCTGM local unions and members at Hostess (then IBC) agreed to significant wage and benefit concessions that brought Hostess wage rates below national competitors.

Beginning in 2003, Hostess began closing production plants, thrift stores and consolidating driver sales units, resulting in a major loss of employment for its unionized workforce. Before the first Hostess bankruptcy, the BCTGM represented more than 10,000 Hostess workers. That number is now approximately 5,000 due to plant closings.

Reports suggest Hostess saved $110 million because of the concessions its unionized workforce took. The money was NOT reinvested in the business (see below).

In 2009, Hostess Brands emerged from bankruptcy as a private company controlled by a private equity firm (Ripplewood Holdings) and two hedge funds (Silver Point Capital, and Monarch Alternative Capital). The new ownership promised to focus on brand building, modernize its plants and trucks, and invest in new technology that other baking companies were employing. Instead, aging trucks and plant machinery were not replaced. New technology was ignored. The company&#8217;s debt continued to grow, and its sales continued to decrease.

In 2011, the company was floundering and again demanded major concessions from
its unionized members.

Workers refused additional givebacks. Hostess filed for bankruptcy for the second time
in January 2012.


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## Steelplate (Nov 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Here's a list of the concessions the unions made to keep Hostess afloat...
> 
> http://bctgm.org/PDFs/HostessFactSheet.pdf
> 
> ...



Oh....I know....or at least have seen it enough times before to know.

But when right wingers speak....they speak in propaganda that was spoon fed to them....to them, there is no other side to the story, the workforce sucks and the company can do no wrong.


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## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> The news media is treating this like a joke, Tee..hee...heee, we can say "Twinkies" and "Ding dongs" in a news report.
> 
> The reality is, a big hedge fund bought up this company that had been around for 85 years, and as they are wont to do, they started squeezing the employees for concessions in order to pay themselves dividends and bonuses.  In short, everything that has been wrong with this economy for the last 30 years.
> 
> *The unions already made concessions on pay and pensions*, and instead of using that money to invest in new equipment, the HEdge fund just looted the money.  And now they are in crisis, partially because of the bad decisions, partially because we are more health conscious and not eating as much of that garbage, and partially because the working folks there actually have the ability to say "Enough".



They shall now make the _ultimate_ concession.

But do not be dismayed.  Perhaps Mary Kay needs more Independent Distributors!


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## JoeB131 (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > The news media is treating this like a joke, Tee..hee...heee, we can say "Twinkies" and "Ding dongs" in a news report.
> ...



Or maybe we'll change the laws to keep hedge funds from pulling this kind of shit.  

What would be really nice is that if instead of letting them liquidate, the court puts a receivership in charge to run the company.   Doubt they will, though.


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## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Does that mean ding dongs are flaccid too?


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## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)




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## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Bigfoot said:


> I am going to buy a couple of boxes of Twinkies tomorrow, they are good.



LOL!! Who doesn't love twinkies?? They're american as apple pie! I'll personally protest if the twinkie is fired! My mom use to stuff those little golden cakes in my lunch! Every now and then I'll eat one of my daughter's.. Shhh.. I sneak it!;-)


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## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Obama killed Hostess.. What a headline! WOW.


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## WillowTree (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> 
> 
> workers have rights even if you dont want them to have rights.
> ...



these workers have NO jobs,, ha ha ha and ray for them, they have nO joBs


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## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

.. It's TRUE.. Hostess going out of business; nearly 18,000 to be laid off

Read more: Hostess going out of business; nearly 18,000 to be laid off - Dallas News | myFOXdfw.com


WTF?!!  You damn libruls destroy every fucking thing you touch! Wow.


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## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

That includes Wonder bread you LIBRUL DOUCHEBAGS! Fuck all of you ZOMBIES!


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## Moonglow (Nov 16, 2012)

bitterlyclingin said:


> [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
> Richard Trumka says he's going to send his union goons door to door to convince American businessmen to see the light regarding Obamanomics.]
> 
> "Back in September, following acceptance by the Teamsters. the bakers union (BCTGM) at bankrupt Hostess brandsmakers of the iconic Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder brand breadsrejected a company proposal to help keep the company in business. By a voice vote of its members, the union opened the door to conduct a company-killing strike and potentially putting 18,500 Hostess workers onto the streets.
> ...



Think of all the lives they saved, diabeties cases, prolonged rotting in the grave from preservatives.


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## Moonglow (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> That includes Wonder bread you LIBRUL DOUCHEBAGS! Fuck all of you ZOMBIES!



Lil Debbies is about 40 miles away in Gentry Ark., they use 7th Day Adventisits to work in the plant. The kids have to have an income to pay for their private prayer school.


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## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> bitterlyclingin said:
> 
> 
> > [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company  at work at GM
> ...



Listen carefully, you little lying weasel.. These are real FUCKING people and this company is about as American as it can get. You SLIME leftists don't tell us what we can and cannot eat. Thanks to you and your ilk, you've suceeded in destroying one of the oldest manufacturing companies who was an American legend.


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## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Don't let any ol' hedge fund manager tell YOU that you can't make $28 an hour plus full benefits to stuff Ho Ho's on a shelf, Union man!

Today is the day you decide how much you make!


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## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > That includes Wonder bread you LIBRUL DOUCHEBAGS! Fuck all of you ZOMBIES!
> ...



Nobody cares about your attempt to schmooze this dick licker.. STFU.. Go tell a man who won't be able to feed his kids now or will lose their family home. You FUCKING liberals and your compassion. BULLSHIT!! All you care about is lazing your lard azzes around while other people sweat..


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## Moonglow (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > bitterlyclingin said:
> ...



try not to get shit all over your face when you wipe.


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## Moonglow (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...



You come on out to my job site and I'll see how long you last laying brick, block, rock or concrete.


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## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



Lame^^^^  How old are you?? LOL


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## Moonglow (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...



neener, neener, I am the stud and you the weiner


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## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



I know you librul men like your women steam engine dyke but I don't row that steroid bulk.. Girls aren't suppose to look like men. I see you're there at your job site right now, like all of yesterday and last night, laying brick. LOL  Must be Wizard of Oz yellow brick being you're lifting with one hand and typing with the other.


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## Nova78 (Nov 16, 2012)

Greedy unions just cost 18,500 jobs ! Expect more of these type of shutdowns as Obama care will come into play as more and more businesses struggle under the Obama regime to remain profitable.


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## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Hostess Drivers!

Leave the rat race behind!

For $99 startup, I will show you how I made $50K a week placing tiny classifed ads in the local paper from my one bedroom apartment!


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## Truthseeker420 (Nov 16, 2012)

Twinkie sales dropped. free market killed the twinkie.


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## LogikAndReazon (Nov 16, 2012)

Its Hostess own fault...................They NEVER should have tolerated union involvement in their business to begin with


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## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

They need to pick up and move south. North Carolina is a right to work state. Plenty of good conservatives here who would love to have a great job like that.


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## Soggy in NOLA (Nov 16, 2012)

You know, I don't think I've ever had a Twinkie.


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## HUGGY (Nov 16, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcStFrp1xow&feature=related]Hostess Sno Balls-Food Network - YouTube[/ame]


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## Soggy in NOLA (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> Twinkie sales dropped. free market killed the twinkie.



Wait, now you're touting the markets as the cause?


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## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)




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## LordBrownTrout (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> more fucking lies.
> 
> jesus you people just dont get it.
> 
> Fox better reeducate you soon



Of course you dont see the irony in what just happened.


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## WillowTree (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> They need to pick up and move south. North Carolina is a right to work state. Plenty of good conservatives here who would love to have a great job like that.



Excellent. Business better wise up and all of them need to move south before the secession!


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## LordBrownTrout (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> Twinkie sales dropped. free market killed the twinkie.



No it didnt.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 16, 2012)

I knew democrats would soon be circling the carcass cawing that it's wonderful that the company went out of business.  Those evil capitalists.  Don't they really deserve to go out of business?

Good, or in the words of another liberal, Thank GOD.

More companies should go out of business and give libs more reason to thank God.    So, for all of our various reasons to thank God, lets just give those thanks in our own special way.  I'm grateful that 18,000 union members are unemployed.  Thank GOD.


----------



## ScreamingEagle (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Hostess Drivers!
> 
> Leave the rat race behind!
> 
> For $99 startup, I will show you how I made $50K a week placing tiny classifed ads in the local paper from my one bedroom apartment!



need work.....?  a piece of cake.....bake your own....


----------



## NoNukes (Nov 16, 2012)

Twinkles and Wonderbread? Oh no!!! These are the cornerstones of a healthy diet.


----------



## Ragnar (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> 
> 
> workers have rights even if you dont want them to have rights.
> ...



You don't get it. There will be no more Hostess workers. Dumb ass.


----------



## Nova78 (Nov 16, 2012)

Obama and his Union buddies have just destroyed another 18,500 jobs ,Obama care also played apart in this ,all part of Obama's Forward approach.......


----------



## Ragnar (Nov 16, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> bitterlyclingin said:
> 
> 
> > [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
> ...



God save us all from prolonged rotting.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

NoNukes said:


> Twinkles and Wonderbread? Oh no!!! These are the cornerstones of a healthy diet.



I'd like for you to walk up to a parent who will now lose his home and have to explain to his children why they are moving in to a homeless shelter, you fuck. It's not about what people eat.. That's none of your damn biznez.. It's about JOBS.. AMERICA BLEEDING JOBS, especially manufacturing.. WE'RE DEAD as a nation.. and you libruls cheer as if we just won some kind of sweepstakes, you DUMB FUCKING IGNORANT ZOMBIES.


----------



## LogikAndReazon (Nov 16, 2012)

If only more people were receiving unemployment benefits, disability, food stamps, medicaid and other govt support to "invest" in the economy and company's like Hostess.............Lol


----------



## Ragnar (Nov 16, 2012)

RIP you sweet chocolate goodness.  







Thanks forward thinking leaning forward folks.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

I'll wager there's a run on Hostess products.. the shelves will be bare soon, then no more Twinkie..:-( It's truly a sad day in America.. Hostess is an icon, a legend.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> I'll wager there's a run on Hostess products.. the shelves will be bare soon, then no more Twinkie..:-( It's truly a sad day in America.. Hostess is an icon, a legend.



Little Debbie will probably swoop in and buy the brand name at liquidation prices.

They know how to run a business!


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > I'll wager there's a run on Hostess products.. the shelves will be bare soon, then no more Twinkie..:-( It's truly a sad day in America.. Hostess is an icon, a legend.
> ...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Debbies

Yep.. Born in Dixie Land..


----------



## Vel (Nov 16, 2012)

Here's a list of brands we can say good bye to.
***************************************************

Brands

In the United States, these include:

Baker's Inn
Beefsteak
Blue Ribbon
Bread du Jour
Butternut Breads
Colombo
Cotton&#8217;s
Di Carlo
Drake's
Dolly Madison
Dutch Hearth
Eddy&#8217;s
Good Hearth
Holsom
Home Pride
Hostess
J.J. Nissen
Merita
Millbrook
Mrs. Cubbison&#8217;s
Nature's Pride
Parisian
Standish Farms
Sweetheart
Toscana
Wonder Bread


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Vel said:


> Here's a list of brands we can say good bye to.
> ***************************************************
> 
> Brands
> ...





Wow.. It's not over yet.. In fact- it's just beginning. Unemployment over 430k this week.. watch it expand by 1000's.. Libruls like Nancy Pelousi love it.. it's helping the economy, dont cha'know?


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Nov 16, 2012)

occupied said:


> The real parasites are the fucking board, after giving themselves a huge pay raise in July, $750,000 to $2,550,000 in the case of the CEO, they demanded workers take substantial pay and pension cuts. If the company is in such bad shape why the unwillingness to share the pain? Those assholes are going to loot the company, leave with juicy golden parachutes and stick it to the people who worked there for years and the workers are the bad people for getting upset and trying to fight.



Can you back this up with any credible source? Because I have tried adn come up empty handed.


----------



## Truthmatters (Nov 16, 2012)

little debbie can make it work.

why couldnt hostess?


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> little debbie can make it work.
> 
> why couldnt hostess?



You're a useless parasite.. UNIONS  UNIONS UNIONS.. Obama's bed partner you idiot!


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Nov 16, 2012)

No one wants to teach chimps fluent english, TM.


----------



## KissMy (Nov 16, 2012)

Tale of the Twinkie

"In the late 1990s, Hostess Brands made record profits. Stockholders received unprecedented dividends, and the corporate leadership was rewarded with dramatically increased bonuses. To sustain those dividends and bonuses, the company kept buying other companies&#8212;presumably, at least in part, with monies that should have gone into the employee pension fund.

If Hostess Brands is soon dissolved, one wonders how its substantial assets will be divided. The union pension fund has been described as the company&#8217;s largest liability, and yet one guesses that as the assets are distributed, those workers and former workers will again be at the back of the line. To quote Mitt Romney, I&#8217;ll bet you $10,000 that the workers again walk away with nothing beyond the empty promises of the management with whom they have tried to negotiate in good faith.

Those workers will be further victimized in the snide criticisms of &#8220;pro-business&#8221; mouthpieces who believe--and would like to convince the rest of us to believe--that despite pro-labor &#8220;propaganda&#8221; to the contrary, corporate raiders are paragons of American values rather than vicious caricatures of those values. Sustaining this selfserving point of view requires a wreching re-definition of the "common good." It requires that American workers be regarded as parasites if they vote for collective bargaining and if they have the temerity to expect what they have been promised."


----------



## Dick Tuck (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Don't let any ol' hedge fund manager tell YOU that you can't make $28 an hour plus full benefits to stuff Ho Ho's on a shelf, Union man!
> 
> Today is the day you decide how much you make!



Why not?  Do you want the rest of us to subsidize Twinkies, and give those people who work a 40 hour week a food stamp subsidy?


----------



## Katzndogz (Nov 16, 2012)

The people who worked for Hostess were well paid, just not as well paid as they thought they should be.  The unions were going to fight for their rights to be overpaid and so they did, by killing off the host.


----------



## regent (Nov 16, 2012)

My past is gone. Twinkies were five cents unless you walked down to the Hostess factory at 55th and Wentworth where the week-old Twinkies were two for a nickel. This truly is the end.


----------



## editec (Nov 16, 2012)

The fact that so many of you here inform us that you love Twinkies is rather telling.


----------



## AquaAthena (Nov 16, 2012)

Ragnar said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> ...



 "Hostess Brands will move promptly to lay off most of its 18,500-member workforce and focus on selling its assets to the highest bidders."

About one-third of the company's workers are union members who are unhappy about the company's cutbacks during its bankruptcy reorganization.


Read more: Hostess going out of business; nearly 18,000 to be laid off - Dallas News | myFOXdfw.com


----------



## g5000 (Nov 16, 2012)

When's the last time you saw someone eating a Twinkie?

I can't even remember.

And that probably has more to do with why Hostess tanked than anything else.

.


----------



## Mr Natural (Nov 16, 2012)

g5000 said:


> When's the last time you saw someone eating a Twinkie?
> 
> I can't even remember.
> 
> ...




True, but blaming "overpaid workers" is so much more fun.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

g5000 said:


> When's the last time you saw someone eating a Twinkie?
> 
> I can't even remember.
> 
> ...



Says a lot about you, you old fuckin gramps. I have a daughter in 1st grade.. I buy Hostess products all the time as do most mothers with children in school.

The world doesn't revolve around your old tired azz.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

What's very telling is the liberals who post here.. Every last one of you are older than Moses.. which means you're a dying breed.. you old hippies..

Good riddance.


----------



## Moonglow (Nov 16, 2012)

Knowing that Twinkies are bad for ya, you would think these junk food junkies would figure that out and would stop it.


----------



## Mr Natural (Nov 16, 2012)

What kind of a half-assed mother would feed their kids that shit?


----------



## Truthmatters (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > little debbie can make it work.
> ...



Little debbie seems to not have pissed its workers off.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Mr Clean said:


> What kind of a half-assed mother would feed their kids that shit?



The world according to LIBRUL ZOMBIES^^^^^^ If you give your kid a twinkie, you're a half assed parent. You can live off the gubmint, demand yo Obamaphone and let taxpayers , pay for YO kidZ..  BUT if you give a child a treat with sugar in it, you're a bad parent..

NO MORE TRICK OR TREATING= BAD PARENTS

roflmao


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Nov 16, 2012)

Mr Clean said:


> What kind of a half-assed mother would feed their kids that shit?



Settle down, Bloomberg-wanna-be.


----------



## g5000 (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > When's the last time you saw someone eating a Twinkie?
> ...



What makes you think I don't have children?

You constantly assume things.  It's your trademark.

.


----------



## Ragnar (Nov 16, 2012)

Mr Clean said:


> What kind of a half-assed mother would feed their kids that shit?



A better one than you had. I should know, I "had" her too. 

More freaking food Nazi's.


----------



## Moonglow (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



No, were used to low wages in Arkansas. Plus they use alot of students from the 7th Day Adventist school to work at the plant in Gentry, Arkansas.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Mr Clean said:


> What kind of a half-assed mother would feed their kids that shit?



... or buy a Volt!


----------



## g5000 (Nov 16, 2012)

> Still, the privately held company that fed a generation of young boomers with sandwich bread, cupcakes, and other snacks finds itself in financial trouble. The sale of Twinkies, the companys iconic offering, dropped 2 percent this year. In 2010, for the first time in the US, sales of sliced wheat bread outsold sliced white bread  a blow to the Wonder Bread label.





> This isnt Hostess first bankruptcy. In 2004, the company, then called Interstate Bakeries, sought Chapter 11 protection  a move that resulted in the closure of nine of its 54 bakers, the shutdown of over 300 outlet stores, and the layoff of approximately 10,000 employees. It took five years for Hostess to emerge from the bankruptcy, then the largest in US history.



Are Twinkies in decline? Hostess files for Chapter 11. - CSMonitor.com


----------



## Truthmatters (Nov 16, 2012)

McKee survives market uncertainty | timesfreepress.com


----------



## g5000 (Nov 16, 2012)

> The junk food market is seeing a rise in commodity prices, and this is rotting away their large profit margins. The cost of sugar keeps rising, some of that has to do with its use in bio-fuels. The rising cost of diesel also play a large role in the cost to produce junk food. It also doesn&#8217;t look like these cost will go down enough to help ease the cost associated with making junk food.
> 
> But, Hostess Brands problem isn&#8217;t that the market is turning to healthy snacks, but their problem is due to a combination of rising costs due to pensions, health care, and commodities. They are currently trying to fix their pension system, because right now they owe $944.2 million to Bakery & Confectionary Union & Industry International Pension Fund, according to the Wall Street Journal.
> 
> ...



Op-Ed: Junk Food Market Still Kicking , but Hostess Suffers Sugar Crash



A combination of factors, not just one.

There is also a lot more competition for shelf space than there was decades ago.

.


----------



## LogikAndReazon (Nov 16, 2012)

Surely its time for a hostess twinkie union bailout...........

Taxpayer "saved" jobs are important


----------



## asaratis (Nov 16, 2012)

Glensather said:


> Oh thank God.
> I fucking hate Twinkies.


The product involved is not the issue.  It makes no difference what the company makes as long as it provides wage-paying JOBS.  Unions today have a strangle hold on various companies and they do not seem to care that their stupidity eventually puts companies OUT OF FUCKIN' BUSINESS!!!

The union leaders (the fat cats that work for the unions and "take care" of the millions of dollars extracted from workers in the form of union dues) ride around in limos, wear silk suits and dine in fancy restaurants ALL at the expense of the worker bees.  They don't care if companies fail.  They are nothing but UNION ORGANIZERS.  They can crank up unions elsewhere to maintain their income.

Unions today represent the biggest scam on the American people that has ever been devised.


----------



## Oddball (Nov 16, 2012)

Ragnar said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of a half-assed mother would feed their kids that shit?
> ...


Amazing past couple of days.

Hostess is on the edge of closing its doors and killing off thousands of jobs, Denny's is having to raise prices and cut hours due to Obolshevikcare, and all the lolberals can do is smear the companies involved with their holier-than-thou snobbery.

Absotively amazing.


----------



## Truthmatters (Nov 16, 2012)

Hostess was having problems meeting their bills back in 2004 you silly gits


----------



## Truthmatters (Nov 16, 2012)

Here is the REAL message to learn for these companies.


Dont lie to your employees about what you will give them.


----------



## KissMy (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> McKee survives market uncertainty | timesfreepress.com



Great article Truth.


----------



## ScreamingEagle (Nov 16, 2012)

Mr Clean said:


> What kind of a half-assed mother would feed their kids that shit?



yeah like kids want to eat this shit all the time....





even the preachy progressives snarf down the junk food...


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Michelle better not eat that.  It will make her ass HUGE!




oh wait


----------



## asaratis (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> little debbie can make it work.
> 
> why couldnt hostess?



They didn't have to deal with the same fucking union goons.

YOU are just about the stupidest asshole on this forum.


----------



## LordBrownTrout (Nov 16, 2012)

NoNukes said:


> Twinkles and Wonderbread? Oh no!!! These are the cornerstones of a healthy diet.



So what if they are or not.


----------



## GlobeOtter (Nov 16, 2012)

Never Forget


----------



## Moonglow (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> Hostess was having problems meeting their bills back in 2004 you silly gits



Surely not, it all oblama/liberals fault, mkay.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

ScreamingEagle said:


> Mr Clean said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of a half-assed mother would feed their kids that shit?
> ...



Ouch! ^5


----------



## Moonglow (Nov 16, 2012)

asaratis said:


> Glensather said:
> 
> 
> > Oh thank God.
> ...



union represent about 10% of the workforce. SOme stranglehold.


----------



## asaratis (Nov 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> Ragnar said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...


That's because liberalism is a mental disorder and 99.9% of the liberals do not have the slightest idea how business works.

Hostess is adding to the unemployment figures.  You can thank the goddamned unions and the stupid liberals that support them for that!


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> > Glensather said:
> ...



They shut down Hostess with their strong armed blackmailing tactics.. Nationwide, Republican governors have taken them on in order to balance their States budgets and yet you brain rotted Zombies, regardless of how many jobs they cost Americans, support their Gestapo type existence.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Nov 16, 2012)

LordBrownTrout said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> > Twinkles and Wonderbread? Oh no!!! These are the cornerstones of a healthy diet.
> ...



Right? 

Lets just push every business under that d oesnt offer lifes bare necessities. Who the fuck needs luxuries or choices? 


DOWN WITH CHOCOLATE, UP WITH TOFU


----------



## asaratis (Nov 16, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> > Glensather said:
> ...


I said "some (various) companies".  Thankfully, we still have right-to-work states where unions are thwarted from raping companies.


----------



## Ragnar (Nov 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> Ragnar said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Clean said:
> ...



Eight to ten percent unemployment for four more years. Trillion dollar deficits for four more years. No budget passed for four more years. Crony bailouts for four more years.

Hell some liberals here are smearing companies qua companies. As if mom and pop stores employ millions at high union salaries. (idiots) As if GM's highest paid unskilled labor in the world is a sustainable utopian model.


----------



## depotoo (Nov 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> The news media is treating this like a joke, Tee..hee...heee, we can say "Twinkies" and "Ding dongs" in a news report.
> 
> The reality is, a big hedge fund bought up this company that had been around for 85 years, and as they are wont to do, they started squeezing the employees for concessions in order to pay themselves dividends and bonuses.  In short, everything that has been wrong with this economy for the last 30 years.
> 
> The unions already made concessions on pay and pensions, and instead of using that money to invest in new equipment, the HEdge fund just looted the money.  And now they are in crisis, partially because of the bad decisions, partially because we are more health conscious and not eating as much of that garbage, and partially because the working folks there actually have the ability to say "Enough".



I'm curious, have you ever actually looked at their financials to see what their past & future obligations are and how they stand?  Have you looked at what the total dollar amount per hour with all benefits actually is?  Have you looked at the profit margins/actual price for product the customer would be willing to pay to see if they can withstald all the above?


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > If obama hadn't paid off the unions, they would have killed GM too.
> ...



Gee, snippy repeats a very old Mitt-lie. 

I'm shocked, I tell you. Just shocked. 

LOL


----------



## syrenn (Nov 16, 2012)

Grampa Murked U said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
> 
> 
> > NoNukes said:
> ...




would that be :

ding dong the twinkie is dead?


----------



## KissMy (Nov 16, 2012)

asaratis said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > little debbie can make it work.
> ...



The unions should have taken a different approach. Striking is not a smart move, especially if your job can be exported. I don't know if a fresh pastries business can actually go far if at all. These brand names are way to popular to die out. They will sell to competition or restructure again. Unfortunately the union pension fund was raided & corporate distributed all the cash to themselves & shareholders. I still don't know how we allow corporate bonus & dividend payments continue to be paid out before pensions are funded as promised.

It's just like MF Global. Customer accounts are supposed to be protected. But now it is legal for the executives to lose your deposits & they still get paid millions & never go to jail.

This country is screwed unless rules are imposed & enforced on Wallstreet. The OWS will grow & burn Wallstreet to the ground one of these days.


----------



## Moonglow (Nov 16, 2012)

asaratis said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > asaratis said:
> ...



Those are states where billionaires rape the workers.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Nov 16, 2012)

JoeB131





> The news media is treating this like a joke, Tee..hee...heee, we can say "Twinkies" and "Ding dongs" in a news report.
> 
> The reality is, a big hedge fund bought up this company that had been around for 85 years, and as they are wont to do, they started squeezing the employees for concessions in order to pay themselves dividends and bonuses. In short, everything that has been wrong with this economy for the last 30 years.
> 
> The unions already made concessions on pay and pensions, and instead of using that money to invest in new equipment, the HEdge fund just looted the money. And now they are in crisis, partially because of the bad decisions, partially because we are more health conscious and not eating as much of that garbage, and partially because the working folks there actually have the ability to say "Enough".



Oh no. Not FACTS. 

Now we can watch the rw's ignore the facts in favor of their usual lies.

(One would think that Mitt Romney is back in business.)


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> 
> 
> workers have rights even if you dont want them to have rights.
> ...



Clueless I'm part of the working class what bullshit are you talking about?
Do you think only union members make up the working class?
Unions are a minority it makes up less than 20% of the work force. So shut the fuck up about unions speaking for or being like the working class. I have nothing in common with those over paid bitches.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

It isn't like private sector unions really matter anymore.


----------



## KissMy (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> It isn't like private sector unions really matter anymore.



The defined benefits pensions of the public sector unions will bring the country to it's knees. That shit must change. Defined contribution funded as you go along is the only way to keep asshole politicians from promising employees taxpayer money that does not exist.


----------



## Katzndogz (Nov 16, 2012)

Unions are leeches that eventually kill whatever host it infects.  I do absolutely everything I can to avoid buying union made products.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Somebody hacked 'KissMy's ' account.


----------



## asaratis (Nov 16, 2012)

Moonglow said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> > Moonglow said:
> ...



Likely, there are a few sweat shops, but I know of many, many non-union shops where the workers are satisfied with their reasonable wages and benefits..and they don't have to pay union dues to keep their jobs.

Unions suck!!


----------



## GHook93 (Nov 16, 2012)

The fucking Union's did!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1vYj0E2Hr0]Zombieland - The Last box of Twinkies - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## KissMy (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Somebody hacked 'KissMy's ' account.



KissMy is not a hypnotized ideologue.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> 
> Thanks for collapsing another great American institution, Union filth.



Unfair.


One union did this...cost 18,000 jobs.


The other unions were reported to have not only accepted....but asked the bakers not to do this.


----------



## Oddball (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Somebody hacked 'KissMy's ' account.


KissMy ain't a neocon douchebag.


----------



## Ragnar (Nov 16, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzaQjS1JstY]Ghostbusters - Big Twinkie - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## clevergirl (Nov 16, 2012)

As someone close to food distribution I can assure all that the Twinkie Lives. It just no longer will be living as an independent company, but will instead forgo its current style of operation...buh-bye unions hello free market. Hostess will begin in December to distribute via wholesale distributors, something the company has never done before.


----------



## Oddball (Nov 16, 2012)

Pardon me while I run out and scoop up a box or two of Twinkies, for old times sake.


----------



## Oddball (Nov 16, 2012)

clevergirl said:


> As someone close to food distribution I can assure all that the Twinkie Lives. It just no longer will be living as an independent company, but will instead forgo its current style of operation...buh-bye unions hello free market. Hostess will begin in December to distribute via wholesale distributors, something the company has never done before.


Linky?


----------



## clevergirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Union pensions cost the company its success, not investors. The investors tried to save the company...but as is the pattern of union thuggery, unions encouraged strikes instead of compromise. NOW, in their second reorganization attempt a second strike by bakers is going to force the company to liquidate and sell off pieces of their business.

There exist plenty of companies (privately held) who would love to acquire the Brand. Twinkies will live. Hostess branding will live...but the idiot workers who refused compromise will have to find work elsewhere.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Nov 16, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> ...



Can we all say "class envy"?

snippy 





> It isn't like private sector unions really matter anymore.



You're stupid.


----------



## clevergirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Oddball said:


> clevergirl said:
> 
> 
> > As someone close to food distribution I can assure all that the Twinkie Lives. It just no longer will be living as an independent company, but will instead forgo its current style of operation...buh-bye unions hello free market. Hostess will begin in December to distribute via wholesale distributors, something the company has never done before.
> ...



I am not linking you to my company dude...sorry. It's of no consequence if you do not believe me as at some future point it will be public knowledge. 

Numerous wholesale distributors are already geared up to begin distribution in December. If Hostess liquidates due to this recent development with Bakers? Then Hostess may have to face a hiatus until it is purchased, but purchased it will be and back out on the market it will go.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

clevergirl said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > clevergirl said:
> ...



Those great brand names aren't going to vanish, that is for sure. 

Union guys paid $30 and hour to stock shelves?  Not.  So.  Much.


----------



## LadyGunSlinger (Nov 16, 2012)

clevergirl said:


> Oddball said:
> 
> 
> > clevergirl said:
> ...



I hope you're right.. It would be a BIG black eye and middle finger to the Unions.


----------



## clevergirl (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> clevergirl said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



Exactly!


----------



## clevergirl (Nov 16, 2012)

LadyGunSlinger said:


> clevergirl said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



You would think they'd learn... Think Mother's Cookies.


----------



## jgarden (Nov 16, 2012)

> In 2010, the percentage of workers belonging to a union in the United States (or total labor union "density") was 11.4%, compared to 18.6% in Germany, 27.5% in Canada, and 70% in Finland. Union membership in the private sector has fallen under 7%  levels not seen since 1932.
> 
> ..... The percentage of workers belonging to a union (or "density") in the United States peaked in 1954 at almost 35% and the total number of union members peaked in 1979 at an estimated 21.0 million.
> 
> Labor unions in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


*Perhaps the OP would care to explain why Germany, Canada, Finland and virtually every other modern democracy in the world have a higher % of unionized workers than the US - and yet they continue to remain competative.

Perhaps the OP would also care to explain that despite the decline of unionized labor since the late 1970's, why the economic prospects of the average American worker have not improved.  

If organized labor is the problem, and given that unionized labor in America has declined ftom 35% (1954) to under 7% (2010), then who has benefitted from the corresponding short and long term economic savings - certainly not the workers?*


----------



## ScreamingEagle (Nov 16, 2012)

jgarden said:


> > In 2010, the percentage of workers belonging to a union in the United States (or total labor union "density") was 11.4%, compared to 18.6% in Germany, 27.5% in Canada, and 70% in Finland. Union membership in the private sector has fallen under 7%  levels not seen since 1932.
> >
> > ..... The percentage of workers belonging to a union (or "density") in the United States peaked in 1954 at almost 35% and the total number of union members peaked in 1979 at an estimated 21.0 million.
> >
> ...



hello.......Europe is going broke........


----------



## regent (Nov 16, 2012)

Twinkie's lost it during WWII. Originally they had banana flavored guts, and were delicious. In WWII it was changed to some bland sort of filling and they lost me as an addict. The name went on but not the taste.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> clevergirl said:
> 
> 
> > Oddball said:
> ...



*Liar.*


----------



## amrchaos (Nov 16, 2012)

So, the age old question"Which will last survive longer, the twinkie or the cockroah?" has finally been answered!


----------



## ScreamingEagle (Nov 16, 2012)

amrchaos said:


> So, the age old question"Which will last survive longer, the twinkie or the cockroah?" has finally been answered!



not so fast there.....the Twinkie will still survive......just not with Hostess.......


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 16, 2012)

amrchaos said:


> So, the age old question"Which will last survive longer, the twinkie or the cockroah?" has finally been answered!



What are you talking about? cockroach's will be pigging out on Twinkies long after man is gone.


----------



## ScreamingEagle (Nov 16, 2012)

KissMy said:


> asaratis said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



what company in their right mind offers defined-benefits pensions anymore.....?  those are dinosaur plans from the 1050s heydays....the unions were too stupid and stuck in their old ways to bend enough to save the company....and their jobs......

and as far as the Wallstreet hedge funds are concerned......without their investments Hostess would have crashed and burned years ago....


----------



## clevergirl (Nov 16, 2012)

jgarden said:


> > In 2010, the percentage of workers belonging to a union in the United States (or total labor union "density") was 11.4%, compared to 18.6% in Germany, 27.5% in Canada, and 70% in Finland. Union membership in the private sector has fallen under 7% &#8212; levels not seen since 1932.
> >
> > ..... The percentage of workers belonging to a union (or "density") in the United States peaked in 1954 at almost 35% and the total number of union members peaked in 1979 at an estimated 21.0 million.
> >
> ...




They do not remain competitive... Unions have been the downfall of numerous European private companies, who, like US private companies, have gone elsewhere...think made in China. In addition, these other nations rely on a strong US military to keep the world safe and allow them to have reduced military spending themselves thereby paying their "public union" costs-. That is changing with most countries facing their second recession since 2009- think more austerity measures-r-us.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Discuss!


----------



## ScreamingEagle (Nov 16, 2012)

ohnoes.......did a video kill the twinkies.....?


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## Fang (Nov 16, 2012)

How about a bailout for the 18,500 workers losing their jobs?


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## blastoff (Nov 16, 2012)

Boy, those Hostess union bozos sure showed management who's boss, huh?  Oh, well...enjoy your first Christmas as unemployed along with your union brothers and sisters.  Jingle bells, jingle bells.....


----------



## Gideonprime (Nov 16, 2012)

FUck Hostess.  They have beenputting out an inferior product for years.  Waxy chocolate and stale pies gets you no business.  They cut corners and are paying the price.  Isn;t that the way the system is supposed to work?  I could have sworn you righties thought the market would settle all things.

Hostess dies and along comes someone else to pick up the pieces and succeeds where they failed.


----------



## Rat in the Hat (Nov 16, 2012)

*AL Quaeda is Alive, Twinkie is Dead*

Big Bird has a message for Twinkie The Kid...


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

rat in the hat said:


> *al quaeda is alive, twinkie is dead*
> 
> big bird has a message for twinkie the kid...



lololololol


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 16, 2012)

Union Greed killed the Twinkie


----------



## g5000 (Nov 16, 2012)

Uh oh.  CrusaderFrank has some competition for Best Topic Title of the Month.  

pinging Joe Biden...


.


----------



## Gideonprime (Nov 16, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Union Greed killed the Twinkie



So it had nothign to do with Hostess making shit?


----------



## Leweman (Nov 16, 2012)

gideonprime said:


> crusaderfrank said:
> 
> 
> > union greed killed the twinkie
> ...



gm?


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Gideonprime said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Union Greed killed the Twinkie
> ...



A Hostess pie costs like $1.69.

This is what happens when you pay a guy $30 and hour to stock shelves. 

The non-Union pies can be had 2 for a buck.


----------



## ScreamingEagle (Nov 16, 2012)

UPDATE:  the Big Twinkie is NOT dead.....he has been spotted still in the White House....


----------



## Fang (Nov 16, 2012)

Gideonprime said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Union Greed killed the Twinkie
> ...



That's irrelavent. The real point is Hostess still had life in it but needed a deal with it's wokers. If they strike a deal then Hostess has a chance to succeed just like any other business. If they can't stike a deal, then 18,500 hit the unemployment line. 

What would the better option have been?


----------



## g5000 (Nov 16, 2012)

Those damned unions.  That must be what bankrupted the GOP, too.

.


----------



## Gideonprime (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Gideonprime said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



What malmart is paying $30 and hour to stock shelves?  If your talking about the hostess employeee you clearly don;t know jack shit about what hostess was actually paying.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Leweman said:


> gideonprime said:
> 
> 
> > crusaderfrank said:
> ...



Oh sure.  Kill the thread!


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> 
> Thanks for collapsing another *great American institution*......



.....*Type 2 Diabetes!!!!* 





*




*






​


----------



## Zoom-boing (Nov 16, 2012)

ScreamingEagle said:


> UPDATE:  the Big Twinkie is NOT dead.....he has been spotted still in the White House....


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Gideonprime said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Gideonprime said:
> ...



OK.  Salary, benies, pensions are $29.37 per hour.


----------



## Gideonprime (Nov 16, 2012)

Fang said:


> Gideonprime said:
> 
> 
> > CrusaderFrank said:
> ...



That would depend on what side of the table you were sitting at.


----------



## syrenn (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Discuss!





does al quaeda have unions? 


and considering you cant say anything against muslim anything.... i am pretty sure striking would be an instant death sentence.


----------



## Fang (Nov 16, 2012)

Gideonprime said:


> Fang said:
> 
> 
> > Gideonprime said:
> ...



How so? 18,500 sounds like a lot to me.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Fang said:


> Gideonprime said:
> 
> 
> > Fang said:
> ...



Don't forget they have forty-eleven social programs waiting for them when they go on the dole!


----------



## Truthseeker420 (Nov 16, 2012)

Free market killed the twinkie . almost 2 dollars for a crappy tasting sponge log. If you want cheap crap they sell Little Debbies for 50 cents.


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Nov 16, 2012)

Gideonprime said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> > Union Greed killed the Twinkie
> ...


----------



## bucs90 (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Discuss!








Ok, gotta admit, that shits pretty funny!!!



Discuss....ok. Considering Americans incredible epedimic of obesity, and just how many problems it's causing us like soaring healthcare, disease, lack of productivity, etc..........and just how rare terror attacks are in the US........Id say the twinkie was a bigger threat to any random American than a dirt farmer in a cave in Afghanistan.


----------



## Mr. Shaman (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Discuss!


----------



## Gideonprime (Nov 16, 2012)

Fang said:


> Gideonprime said:
> 
> 
> > Fang said:
> ...



Ahh but without those 18,500 how much money do the owners/operators stand to make by auctioning off things like the brand name and recipies for Twinkies, Ho-Hos, Snowballs etc?  Without those 18.500 they could be walking away with a tidy sum of cash.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Nov 16, 2012)

Gideonprime said:


> FUck Hostess.  They have beenputting out an inferior product for years.  Waxy chocolate and stale pies gets you no business.  They cut corners and are paying the price.  Isn;t that the way the system is supposed to work?  I could have sworn you righties thought the market would settle all things.
> 
> Hostess dies and along comes someone else to pick up the pieces and succeeds where they failed.



Think GM is putting out a good product? Some held the same attitude as you regarding GM. Many of the elites that got behind the GM bailout would not be caught dead in a GM car. Government Motors.


----------



## Gideonprime (Nov 16, 2012)

LeftofLeft said:


> Gideonprime said:
> 
> 
> > FUck Hostess.  They have beenputting out an inferior product for years.  Waxy chocolate and stale pies gets you no business.  They cut corners and are paying the price.  Isn;t that the way the system is supposed to work?  I could have sworn you righties thought the market would settle all things.
> ...



GM is making some decent cars.  HAve they always?  No but all car companies have their duds.

Think Ford Pinto.


----------



## jgarden (Nov 16, 2012)

clevergirl said:


> jgarden said:
> 
> 
> > > In 2010, the percentage of workers belonging to a union in the United States (or total labor union "density") was 11.4%, compared to 18.6% in Germany, 27.5% in Canada, and 70% in Finland. Union membership in the private sector has fallen under 7% &#8212; levels not seen since 1932.
> ...


*- 

- Given that less than 7% of American labor is currently unionized, its long past time for business to find another "scapegoat" to explain their failures.

-  Many European nations are of the opinion that the American military establishment is more of a threat to threat to the safety  of the world than a deterent.  The Vietnam and Iraq Wars are 2 primary examples of totally unnecessary wars.  

- If keeping the world safe was an American priority, where was this US military presence from 1939 to 1941 - before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the Germans declared war?*


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



I sincerely doubt the hedge fund that bought the company is going to take a loss.  They've probably already made their money from it and any thing else is gravy.  They are probably thrilled the employees went on strike.  Now they don't have to pay unemployment or severance pay to them.


----------



## P@triot (Nov 16, 2012)

18,000 greedy union employees out of a job! I love it! And what a bonus that it occurred under Barack Obama's watch! More glaring evidence that their "share the wealth" mentality creates epic failure.

How long do you suppose it will take before the left will finally acknowledge it? I'm betting well over 100 years (they are pretty stupid).


----------



## regent (Nov 16, 2012)

American capitalism will create another product just as tasty and healthy as Twinkies, and as long as Americans have Twinkie money there is no problem. The problem arrives when there is no Twinky money to demand Twinkies or its equally tasty and healthy replacement.


----------



## Political Junky (Nov 16, 2012)

Mr. Shaman said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> ...


Yesterday I saw a woman like the one in the middle, or bigger, wearing white tights. You could see every ripple of fat ... disgusting. No doubt she loves her Twinkies.


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## bitterlyclingin (Nov 16, 2012)

Maybe The Obambi will go to Congress for monies to re erect a new Hostess Bakers so the unions can have their jobs raping and sodomizing the business back again just like old times as he did with Chrysler and GM so the UAW could hang onto their jobs.

AFL-CIO Chief Richard Trumka Blames Bain Capital For Hostess Going Out Of Business After Union Workers Bleed Company Dry&#8230; | Weasel Zippers


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 16, 2012)

bitterlyclingin said:


> [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
> Richard Trumka says he's going to send his union goons door to door to convince American businessmen to see the light regarding Obamanomics.]
> 
> "Back in September, following acceptance by the Teamsters. the bakers&#8217; union (BCTGM) at bankrupt Hostess brands&#8212;makers of the iconic Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder brand breads&#8212;rejected a company proposal to help keep the company in business. By a voice vote of its members, the union opened the door to conduct a company-killing strike and potentially putting 18,500 Hostess workers onto the streets.
> ...




Supporters of Mitt Romney should have no trouble with a company failing and having to sell off its assets. How do you think Mitt made his fortune?


Of course - Mitt lost -- so I doubt we'll find many of his supporters around.



This isn't the first time Hostess went bankrupt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/06/business/06twinkies.html

of course - the *failure of a company couldn't possibly be due to poor manageme*nt! Companies always fail for one of two reasons a) Obama or b) the workers refuse to work for what the management tells them to work for. Those fucking asshole workers! Who do they think they are?

I guess all the other manufacturers of plastic wrapped desert snacks must also be failing, right?


----------



## OKTexas (Nov 16, 2012)

Photonic said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> ...



I just did a simple search, the average job at hostess is $72,000.00 per year. Is that what you call being  pissed on. You must be a 1%er.

Hostess Bakery Salaries | Simply Hired


----------



## Political Junky (Nov 16, 2012)

OKTexas said:


> Photonic said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...


That's averaging in CEOs who probably make huge salaries.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 16, 2012)

OKTexas said:


> Photonic said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...




uhh, no its not. The average salary for all job listings with the search terms 'hostess' and 'bakery' in them is 72,000.

Did you read your own link?


> This salary was calculated using the average salary for all jobs with the term "hostess bakery" *anywhere* in the job listing.



The first job that turns up is the job of hostess at Disney

Hostess Bakery Jobs | Simply Hired

You're a fucking idiot.


----------



## Murf76 (Nov 16, 2012)

Well, I'm going to miss the occasional Twinkie.  Bought the last box left in my local supermarket today.  I think I'll put them away in the freezer and  treat myself to one every time some union thug gets hosed through his own stupidity and greed.  I bet the look on their faces over at the Baker's Union was absolutely priceless when they realized they'd just put an entire workforce, 18,500 strong, on the unemployment line.  I hope someone thought to videotape their expressions.  >>><<<  I'd like to see that on YouTube.

This is a company which survived the Great Depression, but couldn't survive one term under Barack Obama.  How fucking sad is that?  
Cest la vie, I reckon.  It's the beginning of the end, right?  Another great American tradition bites the dust.  Soon to be followed by many, many more, I'm sure.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 16, 2012)

Murf76 said:


> Well, I'm going to miss the occasional Twinkie.  Bought the last box left in my local supermarket today.  I think I'll put them away in the freezer and  treat myself to one every time some union thug gets hosed through his own stupidity and greed.  I bet the look on their faces over at the Baker's Union was absolutely priceless when they realized they'd just put an entire workforce, 18,500 strong, on the unemployment line.  I hope someone thought to videotape their expressions.  >>><<<  I'd like to see that on YouTube.



There will still be Twinkies, they'll just be made by whatever company buys the rights to make them and call them "twinkies" 



> This is a company which survived the Great Depression, but couldn't survive one term under Barack Obama.  How fucking sad is that?
> Cest la vie, I reckon.  It's the beginning of the end, right?  Another great American tradition bites the dust.  Soon to be followed by many, many more, I'm sure.




I didn't know that Obama was the CEO of Hostess. Wow, it must be tough for him to balance being President of the U.S. and CEO of a company at the same time.


----------



## Ragnar (Nov 16, 2012)

jgarden said:


> Perhaps the OP would care to explain why Germany, Canada, Finland and virtually every other modern democracy in the world have a higher % of unionized workers than the US - and yet they *continue to remain competative*.
> 
> ...
> 
> - Given that less than 7% of American labor is currently unionized, its long past time for business to *find another "scapegoat"* to explain their failures.



*Corporate tax rates: Germany- 30.2,  Canada- 29.5, Finland- 26.0, United States- 39.2* 

Corporation tax rates around the world. How much do companies pay? | News | guardian.co.uk

*Capital gains plus corporate tax rates: Germany- 47.7, Canada- 43.9, Finland- 46.7, United States- 50.8*

Capital Gains Rate By Country, 2011 (OECD) | Tax Foundation


----------



## OKTexas (Nov 16, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> > Photonic said:
> ...



Yep I saw that, it also said salaries vairied by location,  did you see it was a simple search that was just looking for an average? If your looking for perfection do your own fucking search. Dumb ass.


----------



## Murf76 (Nov 16, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Murf76 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I'm going to miss the occasional Twinkie.  Bought the last box left in my local supermarket today.  I think I'll put them away in the freezer and  treat myself to one every time some union thug gets hosed through his own stupidity and greed.  I bet the look on their faces over at the Baker's Union was absolutely priceless when they realized they'd just put an entire workforce, 18,500 strong, on the unemployment line.  I hope someone thought to videotape their expressions.  >>><<<  I'd like to see that on YouTube.
> ...



Dear God... I hope the new CEOs are Japanese, that they take production overseas, and then SHIP them in.  It will be Just Desserts in more ways than one.   Then the stupid, union fucksticks who caused this mess can walk by them in the International Foods section of their local supermarket, where if there's any justice left in this world they will be wrapped in the gaudiest trappings that the people who gave us Pokemon, Samarai Warrior, and vending-machine live crabs can come up with... and remember when.


----------



## Oddball (Nov 16, 2012)

_*TWINKIE BAILOUT!*_


----------



## Mr. Peepers (Nov 16, 2012)

> Says a lot about you, you old fuckin gramps. I have a daughter in 1st grade.. I buy Hostess products all the time as do most mothers with children in school.



Wow, you feed your daughter garbage?  That stuff is toxic.  Maybe that's what happened to your brain.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> little debbie can make it work.
> 
> why couldnt hostess?




Hostess has it's corporate office in Irving Texas.
 The workers are in Illinois......I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

I like where mine ended up ...


----------



## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> LadyGunSlinger said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



Because their plants are in the South for the most part.


----------



## Mr Natural (Nov 16, 2012)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > LadyGunSlinger said:
> ...




Where slavery is a time honored tradition.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby (Nov 16, 2012)

Union workers lost their jobs over a two percent cut in their pensions? FUCKING BRILLIANT.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 16, 2012)

OKTexas said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > OKTexas said:
> ...



What were you looking for an average of? If you were looking for an average salary of jobs with Hostess, you failed miserably.


----------



## LeftofLeft (Nov 16, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> 
> 
> workers have rights even if you dont want them to have rights.
> ...



Laugh it up. 18000 people are out of work.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 16, 2012)

Murf76 said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > Murf76 said:
> ...




The strike began last week. Hostess filed for bankruptcy last January, the second time since 2009. *The vulture capitalists that own the company wanted to cut wages by 30% - after the CEO got a 300% raise. *That you would come down on the side of the vultures and blame the employees for the company failing is ridiculous - but not at all surprising. Do you honestly expect employees will just take any pay cut their boss's demand - after the boss's themselves give themselves a massive pay hike? Vulture capitalists buy companies for the purposes of raiding their assets - they have no intention of promoting long term solvency. Almost half of their plants were already due to be closed down by the vultures anyway, and if they expected folks to take massive pay cuts after they raid the company's cash for their own salaries - they made a massive miscalculation. That's a poor decision by the owners and management, not the employees.

*
If you work for someone - how big of a pay cut would you be willing to take personally to fund a 300% raise for your boss?
Or - if you run your own business - how big a pay cut would you expect your employees to take to fund a 300% raise for you?

*


BTW - how many twinkies have you eaten this past week?


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2012)

LeftofLeft said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> ...




And would have been anyway, sooner or later,  The company was bought out by a hedge fund, which looted the company and then declared bankruptcy.  the union played right into their hands, now they don't have to pay unemployment or severance,  just gravy for them.  Doesn't stop them from paying their CEOs $millions and their upper management "retention bonuses."  Silly me, I always thought "retention" was for staying.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 16, 2012)

LeftofLeft said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> ...



Because vulture capitalists bought a company, gave themselves big salaries, and then tried to cut their employees pay.


----------



## blackhawk (Nov 16, 2012)

The Twinkie has died a American original is no more so has the left blamed Bush yet just asking?


----------



## MikeK (Nov 16, 2012)

occupied said:


> The real parasites are the fucking board, after giving themselves a huge pay raise in July, $750,000 to $2,550,000 in the case of the CEO, they demanded workers take substantial pay and pension cuts. If the company is in such bad shape why the unwillingness to share the pain? Those assholes are going to loot the company, leave with juicy golden parachutes and stick it to the people who worked there for years and the workers are the bad people for getting upset and trying to fight.


It's troubling to see so many corporatist lackeys offhandedly denounce the Bakers' Union without the slightest awareness of or concern for the union's position.  I wonder how many of these foot-soldiers for the rising corporatocracy realize how important the union movement has been to them, their parents, and to all working class Americans.  

It is possible the Bakers Union's position was unreasonable and if it was then criticism is in order.  But to just go off on a broadly anti-union rant the way some of these individuals have done, without knowing any of the facts, is a betrayal of one of the most important institutions in the lives of the American Middle Class.  In fact, without unions there would be no American Middle Class.


----------



## Murf76 (Nov 16, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Murf76 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I'm going to miss the occasional Twinkie.  Bought the last box left in my local supermarket today.  I think I'll put them away in the freezer and  treat myself to one every time some union thug gets hosed through his own stupidity and greed.  I bet the look on their faces over at the Baker's Union was absolutely priceless when they realized they'd just put an entire workforce, 18,500 strong, on the unemployment line.  I hope someone thought to videotape their expressions.  >>><<<  I'd like to see that on YouTube.
> ...





OohPooPahDoo said:


> Murf76 said:
> 
> 
> > OohPooPahDoo said:
> ...



Well, as it turns out... they took a 100% decrease.  You can't fuck with a company which is ALREADY in bankruptcy proceedings.  That's not rocket science.   I have no idea whether your statistics above are correct or not, but I don't much care either.  The fact of the matter is that the guy who squirts the cream filling in the cupcakes is NOT going to make as much money as the guy who runs the entire organization.  Tough cupcakes, but it is what it is.


----------



## Bigfoot (Nov 16, 2012)

I just picked up two boxes of Twinkies at the store


----------



## Charles_Main (Nov 16, 2012)

bitterlyclingin said:


> [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
> Richard Trumka says he's going to send his union goons door to door to convince American businessmen to see the light regarding Obamanomics.]
> 
> "Back in September, following acceptance by the Teamsters. the bakers union (BCTGM) at bankrupt Hostess brandsmakers of the iconic Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder brand breadsrejected a company proposal to help keep the company in business. By a voice vote of its members, the union opened the door to conduct a company-killing strike and potentially putting 18,500 Hostess workers onto the streets.
> ...



Another victim of unchecked Union Greed.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 16, 2012)

Murf76 said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > Murf76 said:
> ...



So the guy who squirts the cream should be willing to work for whatever price his boss demands, and if he refuses and the company fails as a result - its all his fault (and Obama's) right?

Yes?

No?


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> LeftofLeft said:
> 
> 
> > Truthmatters said:
> ...



And had the union not gone on strike, they still would have closed the company.  Otherwise, they would have brought in scabs.  The economy being the way it is, they would have no problem finding enough scabs.


----------



## AmyNation (Nov 16, 2012)

I just can't wrap my head around workers who would rather put their employer and by extension, themselves, out of business, rather than work for less.

Baffling.


----------



## jwoodie (Nov 16, 2012)

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/nationalize-twinkie-industry/cJz0ngJR


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## Murf76 (Nov 16, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Murf76 said:
> 
> 
> > OohPooPahDoo said:
> ...



What are the particularly rare and valuable skills and qualifications make the guy who squirts the cream into the Twinkies difficult to replace?  See, THAT's the problem.  Unions want more for their labor than their labor is worth as it relates to pricing product units.  And because there's no option to replace them, businesses go under.  I'm not paying seven bucks for a box of Twinkies.  Nobody would.  And so.... no Twinkies for anybody.  That is, unless some foreign entity purchases the rights, produces them overseas, and then ships them back in.

Unions have outlived their usefulness because it's a GLOBAL market.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2012)

Murf76 said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > Murf76 said:
> ...



If they employees could have been replaced so easily, they could have hired scabs.  Of course then they wouldn't be able to blame the union for their closing and get out of severance packages and unemployment insurance for them.  Face it, the union didn't drive this company out of business, the Capitalists exploited it out of business.  They looted it and expected the employees put up with it for as long as possible.  In the end, the company still would have closed.  That's what happens when a company is run by people more concerned with how much money they can get out of a company than how to keep it operating.


----------



## Murf76 (Nov 16, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Murf76 said:
> 
> 
> > OohPooPahDoo said:
> ...



It's not as easy as simply hiring scabs.  If it was, unions could never pull off a strike.  
This company was already in trouble, and they had made it very clear that the ONLY way it would survive is to trim its labor costs.



> A liquidation has loomed large since Hostess's latest bankruptcy case kicked off in January. From the start, the company has warned that labor cuts were its only chance to survive.
> 
> Months of back-and-forth threats and court proceedings ultimately led to delivery-truck drivers and some plant workers represented by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters to agree to deep concessions. But the bakers' union, known as the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, resisted.
> 
> ...



Regardless of whether there were bad players in the past, this was the LAST CHANCE for this business to be saved, and that fact was made clear to these unions.  They chose instead to get a 100% decrease for their members, rather than take an 8% wage cut.


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## cutter (Nov 16, 2012)

I haven't had a Twinkie in years. I went out and bought a box of 20 today just for old time sake.  They are every bit as good as I remember. Good bye twinkie. You'll be missed.


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## occupied (Nov 16, 2012)

Don't mourn the Twinkie, it's a small price to pay in the  big business war on American working class pensions and decent wages.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 16, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I just can't wrap my head around workers who would rather put their employer and by extension, themselves, out of business, rather than work for less.
> 
> Baffling.



Probably because they realize that most of their competitors are unionized, and when Hostess goes out of business, they'll need more help and get picked up when the Hall gives them a call.  

Here's the key thing... 

The union already made a lot of concessions. To the point where they were the lowest paid people in their industry.  And the company used those savings (about 150 million dollars) to pay off investors andpay themselves bonuses.


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## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2012)

Murf76 said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Murf76 said:
> ...



If they were serious about that, they wouldn't have given their CEO a 300% increase.  Kind of hard to tighten your belt when your boss is eating his imported caviar right in front of you....

Funny I can't find it now, but they are giving $millions to the CEOs in bonuses and to the upper management.  If they were so broke, how could they do that?  The truth is this was a planned closure.


----------



## kidrocks (Nov 16, 2012)

There... the truth, fair and balanced. The otherside of the story. 




"Union bosses" and "Wall Street vultures" blamed for Hostess' demise - Political Eye - CBS News



> Meanwhile the president of the AFL-CIO, Richard Trumka, released a statement calling the closure "a microcosm of what's wrong with America, as Bain-style Wall Street vultures make themselves rich by making America poor." Bain Capital is the asset management company founded by former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney that invested in faltering companies.
> 
> "Crony capitalism and consistently poor management drove Hostess into the ground, but its workers are paying the price," he said.


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## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > I just can't wrap my head around workers who would rather put their employer and by extension, themselves, out of business, rather than work for less.
> ...



Hence the term "loot".  They looted the company.  The capitalists looted it to the point that it couldn't survive and blamed it on the union and the stupid public fell for it.


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## Quantum Windbag (Nov 16, 2012)

occupied said:


> Don't mourn the Twinkie, it's a small price to pay in the  big business war on American working class pensions and decent wages.



Strange how many union members decided to cross picket lines rather than destroy the company, yet you think this is a win for big business.


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## blackhawk (Nov 16, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > Don't mourn the Twinkie, it's a small price to pay in the  big business war on American working class pensions and decent wages.
> ...



I wonder how the union members who decided not to go back to work are feeling right now is  no  paycheck better than a smaller one?


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## occupied (Nov 16, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > Don't mourn the Twinkie, it's a small price to pay in the  big business war on American working class pensions and decent wages.
> ...



Yes. the hedge fund comes out ahead and the union gets handed a loss, there is no downside as far as conservatives are concerned, plus the workers get taught a lesson in the futility of fighting the head office, conservative icing on the cake.


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## GoneBezerk (Nov 16, 2012)

I bought the turkey tonight and now realize I should have loaded up on some twinkies, etc before they are gone.


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## RoadVirus (Nov 16, 2012)

Dear Union slobs: The company is officially dead. And now, instead of getting paid anything, you get a pink slip. All because you got greedy. So tell me...was it worth it?


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## Luddly Neddite (Nov 16, 2012)

Check out the Bad Health Fans on ebay. 

They're paying big bucks for a last shot of tasteless gobs of fat.


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## Lakhota (Nov 16, 2012)

Sounds like company greed took down ole Twinkie...

Hostess Blames Union For Bankruptcy After Tripling CEO's Pay | ThinkProgress


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## RoadVirus (Nov 16, 2012)

blackhawk said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



No kidding. If it were me, i'd be thanking my lucky stars that i have a job in a shitty economy and take the pay cut rather then the pink slip.


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## percysunshine (Nov 16, 2012)

Fried  twinkies will never die;







.


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## AmyNation (Nov 16, 2012)

Anyone who stocks up on twinkies is an idiot. The company is going out of business, but they will be selling the recipes and branding of their most popular products to their competitors.


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## Lakhota (Nov 16, 2012)

Sounds like company greed took down ole Twinkie...

Hostess Blames Union For Bankruptcy After Tripling CEO's Pay | ThinkProgress


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## JoeB131 (Nov 16, 2012)

About right...


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## JoeB131 (Nov 16, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> Anyone who stocks up on twinkies is an idiot. The company is going out of business, but they will be selling the recipes and branding of their most popular products to their competitors.



Not to mention that there are a bunch of other companies that brand what is effectively a twinkie under other names.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 16, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Sounds like company greed took down ole Twinkie...
> 
> Hostess Blames Union For Bankruptcy After Tripling CEO's Pay | ThinkProgress



yep

BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.


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## tyroneweaver (Nov 16, 2012)

I saw a whole bunch of fat people in the wonder bread store today, stuffing their cars to the brim.


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## bucs90 (Nov 16, 2012)

Blame fitness. The demand for shitty, sugary foods that cause diabetes, obsesity, heart disease and overall ugliness has gone down. Supply vs demand.


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## BreezeWood (Nov 16, 2012)

the workers held their ground - for the better in the long run.


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## blackhawk (Nov 16, 2012)

bucs90 said:


> Blame fitness. The demand for shitty, sugary foods that cause diabetes, obsesity, heart disease and overall ugliness has gone down. Supply vs demand.



Fitness yeah that ain't it one look at the people in the grocery store or the mall proves that.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Nov 16, 2012)

Yeah, put a Govt surcharge of $5 extra on every Big Mac, Whopper, etc.....that will show them.

Don't allow anyone to buy a Big Gulp....anywhere in the USA.

Ban French Fries for being fat people pills. 

Pizza, you must get a ticket from the Govt to buy a pizza after you have logged 100 miles on a treadmill. 

Donuts...oh wait....cops will shoot people over messing with donuts.



bucs90 said:


> Blame fitness. The demand for shitty, sugary foods that cause diabetes, obsesity, heart disease and overall ugliness has gone down. Supply vs demand.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 16, 2012)

THousands of right wingers face starvation....


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## blackhawk (Nov 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> THousands of right wingers face starvation....



I can't wait to hear the logic behind that statement.


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## GoneBezerk (Nov 16, 2012)

He also forgot he claims to be a conservative....slip of the tongue. 



blackhawk said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > THousands of right wingers face starvation....
> ...


----------



## OKTexas (Nov 16, 2012)

BreezeWood said:


> the workers held their ground - for the better in the long run.



5,000 union workers held their ground, but how about you ask the 13,000 non-union workers they put on the unemployment lines how they feel about it. I seriously doubt that they think it will be better in the long run. I thought your commies were all about democracy, why didn't all the workers get a vote?


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## occupied (Nov 16, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> THousands of right wingers face starvation....



Not really, there are dozens of knock-offs out there made by much more exploited Mexicans, mmmmm just taste that outsourced goodness.


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## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

occupied said:


> Don't mourn the Twinkie, it's a small price to pay in the  big business war on American working class pensions and decent wages.



Twinkie, HO HO's, Wonder Bread will be back STRONG - as soon as the brands are sold off and the Union is shat. 

Good riddence.


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## skye (Nov 16, 2012)

So what!.....................Twinkie is dead ......we still have Snickers   bars

No
body
cares
meh


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## Connery (Nov 16, 2012)

skye said:


> So what!.....................Twinkie is dead ......we still have *Snickers*   bars
> 
> No
> body
> ...


The CEO is doing a lot of snickering...


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## skye (Nov 16, 2012)

Mars bars too!!!!!!!!!!


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## Connery (Nov 16, 2012)

Just looking at this gave me a little gas....


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## Trajan (Nov 16, 2012)

BreezeWood said:


> the workers held their ground - for the better in the long run.



uh huh, looks like the teamsters threw the bakery union under the bus.....the teamsters were ready the bakers weren't, so now? they all lose. blood from a stone and all that. 


    In fact, when Hostess attempted to throw out its collective bargaining agreement with the Teamsters in court, the Teamsters fought back and won, ensuring that Hostess could not unilaterally make changes to working conditions during the several months long legal process that recently ended. Teamster Hostess members were allowed to decide their fate by voting on the final offer conducted by a secret mail ballot.  More than two-thirds of Hostess Teamsters members voted with 53 percent voting to approve the final offer.

    The BCTGM chose a different path, as is their prerogative, to not substantively look for a solution or engage in the process. BCTGM members were told there were better solutions than the final offer, although Judge Drain stated in his decision in bankruptcy court that no such solutions exist. Without complete information, BCTGM members voted by voice votes in union halls. The BCTGM reported that over 90 percent rejected the final offer and three of its units ratified the final offer.

    On Friday, Nov. 9, the BCTGM began to strike at some Hostess production facilities without notice to the Teamsters despite assurances they would not proceed with job actions without contacting the Teamsters Union. This unannounced action put Teamster members in the difficult position of facing picket lines without knowing their right to honor such a line without being disciplined.

*    As is our longstanding tradition, Teamster members by and large are honoring Bakery Worker picket lines when encountered and complying with their contractual obligations when not encountering picket lines. The BCTGM leaders are putting Teamster members in a horrible position  asking them to support a strike that will put them out of a job when they havent even asked all their members to go on strike.*

    That strike is now on the verge of forcing the company to liquidate  it is difficult for Teamster members to believe that is what the BCTGM Hostess members ultimately wanted to accomplish when they went out on strike. We may never know unless the BCTGM members, based on the facts they know today, get to determine their fate in a secret ballot vote. Teamster members would understand that the will of the BCTGM Hostess membership was truly heard if that was the case.

more at-

Teamsters: Bakery Workers Should Hold Secret Ballot Vote at Hostess | International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT)


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## Trajan (Nov 16, 2012)

I'll miss them....


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## Trajan (Nov 16, 2012)

blackhawk said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > THousands of right wingers face starvation....
> ...



its the old 'drag a $100 bill' thru a trailer park syndrome.


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## Trajan (Nov 16, 2012)

right, becasue he says so and of course hes got no dog in the fight

friggin sheep....


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 16, 2012)

Trumka is Putin's sock puppet


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## BallsBrunswick (Nov 16, 2012)

That's the vibe on the street here in Seattle. The company got new management which sucked the company dry and then chose to liquidate it for the quick money. Fucking over a national institution and a couple thousand jobs in the process.


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## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

I am pretty sure asking $4.79 for a box of Ho Hos killed Hostess.

Then again, how else are you going to pay a guy $30 an hour to stock shelves?


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## Trajan (Nov 16, 2012)

Hostess Brands is unprofitable under its current cost structure, much of which is determined by union wages and pension costs. The offer to the BCTGM included wage, benefit and work rule concessions but also gave Hostess Brands&#8217; 12 unions a 25 percent ownership stake in the company, representation on its Board of Directors and $100 million in reorganized Hostess Brands&#8217; debt.


Hostess union workers have Plan B:

 

the unions wanted their benes not a piece of the co., hey the UAW took ( were given)  a piece of GM et al, so whats gives?


annnnd-

Many production workers earned up to $20 an hour, plus had access to medical benefits, according to Michael O'Brien, a former Hostess employee who had worked at the company for 45 years, in various sales functions, before he was offered a buyout last year. 

snip-

 Another 6,700 Hostess workers were represented by the Teamsters, a union that was sharply critical of the Bakers' decision to strike. Those jobs largely include truckers, many who both transported and sold Hostess products.

Trucking is a higher paying field, offering a national average of $22 an hour. Including base pay and commission, Hostess Teamsters workers could have earned between $50,000 to $100,000 a year, said O'Brien. 

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news/economy/hostess-jobs/


I know scientists at UC Berkeley that make less than that....


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## Votto (Nov 16, 2012)

The company cited increased wages, pensions, and cost of medical care for it's employees as the reason for going belly up.  This is pure right winged propoganda I tell ya!!  Everyone knows that Obamacare is affordable and good for the nation.  In addition, the CEO's are greedy and only are in it for the money, not their exploited employees who are in it for the love of twinkie.

If I were Obama, I would buy the company up and save those 18,000 jobs.  It's the American way and the right thing to do for the workers of America.

Workers unite!!!


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## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Votto said:


> The company cited increased wages, pensions, and cost of medical care for it's employees as the reason for going belly up.  This is pure right winged propoganda I tell ya!!  Everyone knows that Obamacare is affordable and good for the nation.  In addition, the CEO's are greedy and only are in it for the money.
> 
> If I were Obama, I would buy the company up and save those 18,000 jobs.  It's the America way and the right thing to do for the workers of America.
> 
> Workers unite!!!



What would be awsome is if those 18K workers started their own bakery and just made it happen themselves.


Fuck, they could pay themselves whatever they think they deserve!


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## Votto (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > The company cited increased wages, pensions, and cost of medical care for it's employees as the reason for going belly up.  This is pure right winged propoganda I tell ya!!  Everyone knows that Obamacare is affordable and good for the nation.  In addition, the CEO's are greedy and only are in it for the money.
> ...



Are you nuts?  Do you really think those employees want to have to deal with the unions?


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## occupied (Nov 16, 2012)

Another tragedy the right wing is deliriously happy about, the more we find out the more they look like insane sadists.


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## MikeK (Nov 16, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> I just can't wrap my head around workers who would rather put their employer and by extension, themselves, out of business, rather than work for less.
> 
> Baffling.


When a union does that it's because their leadership knows giving in will be the beginning of an incremental diminution of everything the union had fought for and achieved over the years.  It's a matter of dying slowly on their knees or quickly on their feet.  With very few exceptions union leaders are neither stupid nor suicidal.  They carefully research a corporation's status before engaging in a hostile standoff.  

One of the few times the leadership of a significant union took a foolish and unnecessary risk was when the Air Traffic Controllers Union mistakenly believed because Ronald Reagan was once a union president (the Screen Actors' Guild) he would be sympathetic to their very legitimate grievances.  That was an understandable misjudgement of a man whose success in life was predicated on deception.  He was the archetypal phony and he screwed a lot more than that union.


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## Votto (Nov 16, 2012)

occupied said:


> Another tragedy the right wing is deliriously happy about, the more we find out the more they look like insane sadists.



You might be on to something.  All I hear in the news are companies going belly up.  It's like all the right wants to do is exploit these tragedies, if not create them, and try to blame them on government and the unions.  If you ask me, it's a vast sick right winged conspiracy.


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## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

occupied said:


> Another tragedy the right wing is deliriously happy about, the more we find out the more they look like insane sadists.



Dude.  A tragedy is getting run over by a bread truck. 

The Union workers are jumping out of a perfectly good one at highway speed.

That is idiocy.


This is a metaphor.


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## occupied (Nov 16, 2012)

Votto said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > Another tragedy the right wing is deliriously happy about, the more we find out the more they look like insane sadists.
> ...



I wonder just how many years of wage gains and basic labor rights we are going to have to go back before the plutocrats are satisfied? They cannot possibly be aiming for parity with China or Mexico but the more I see stuff like this the more it seems likely. How the hell do they expect people to afford their products when 20 years of stagnant wages are just not good enough, now we have to give them back more and massive tax cuts to boot.


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## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

occupied said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



Cry us a river. 

Nobody can afford to pay a bread truck driver $100K.


----------



## occupied (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > Another tragedy the right wing is deliriously happy about, the more we find out the more they look like insane sadists.
> ...



Shut the fuck up, if the suits want to cut all our wages to keep more for themselves that is just fucking fine in your book, if it was up to you we would all be working in sweatshops for a dollar a day. Good thing your government check is relatively safe ya mooch.


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## MikeK (Nov 16, 2012)

Murf76 said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > Unions have outlived their usefulness because it's a GLOBAL market.
> ...


----------



## Votto (Nov 16, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > Votto said:
> ...



Seriously?  They were making $100k?


----------



## Votto (Nov 16, 2012)

occupied said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



Better yet, just let the government continue to print money and inflate your salary away.  You seem to have no problem with that.

Face it, the powers that be are coming at us from both directions.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 16, 2012)

Votto said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



Trajan's post a few up. 

But I bet those were the A.J. Foyt's of the bunch!


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## Locke11_21 (Nov 16, 2012)

The real truth is, unions, the Democrat Party and Obama are to blame for the demise of Hostess.  This was a well planned effort to destroy Hostess and force them out of business.  Well, guess what, a so called group _"We The People"_ is petitioning Barack HUSSEIN Obama to NATIONALIZE Hostess.  Yes, "We The People", a White House organization.   So, drive Hostess out of business, then save it by nationalizing, then sell it to the unions.  Communism at its best.  Lenin and Stalin would be very proud of today's Democrat Party.


----------



## occupied (Nov 17, 2012)

Votto said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



I doubt it, but that's besides the point, whatever they were making last year is what they should be making this year, when large segments of the American workforce must take pay cuts just to keep profit margins where the owners can continue to increase their takehome well in excess of the rates of inflation we enter a spiral that will kill our prosperity faster than anything the government can accomplish in the worker hating conservative's worst nightmares.


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## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

occupied said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...



LOL

Out of control operating costs are 'besides the point. '


----------



## MikeK (Nov 17, 2012)

Murf76 said:


> Regardless of whether there were bad players in the past, this was the LAST CHANCE for this business to be saved, and that fact was made clear to these unions.  They chose instead to get a 100% decrease for their members, rather than take an 8% wage cut.


8% today.  Another 8% tomorrow, and so on, then reduced vacation time, pension reductions, and on and on.  That is what happens when a union gives in.

That company's executive board was looking to loot its holdings and bail out and the union leadership smelled it.  Any reduction in wages or benefits would have added to the loot bag when they bailed.  

I suspect the bad publicity about Twinkies, which is Hostess' flagship product, has affected the bottom line and the Board realized it's time to grab what they can and pull a Romney.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Murf76 said:
> 
> 
> > OohPooPahDoo said:
> ...


----------



## Plasmaball (Nov 17, 2012)

Locke11_21 said:


> The real truth is, unions, the Democrat Party and Obama are to blame for the demise of Hostess.  This was a well planned effort to destroy Hostess and force them out of business.  Well, guess what, a so called group _"We The People"_ is petitioning Barack HUSSEIN Obama to NATIONALIZE Hostess.  Yes, "We The People", a White House organization.   So, drive Hostess out of business, then save it by nationalizing, then sell it to the unions.  Communism at its best.  Lenin and Stalin would be very proud of today's Democrat Party.



what? shut up you twit.

Anyways i dont have an opinion on this really. Both camps are blaming the other side and the real losers are the people who will be out of a job. Sadly i see the rest of you are just playing along instead of demanding some sort of compromise and jobs saved before the holidays.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> Locke11_21 said:
> 
> 
> > The real truth is, unions, the Democrat Party and Obama are to blame for the demise of Hostess.  This was a well planned effort to destroy Hostess and force them out of business.  Well, guess what, a so called group _"We The People"_ is petitioning Barack HUSSEIN Obama to NATIONALIZE Hostess.  Yes, "We The People", a White House organization.   So, drive Hostess out of business, then save it by nationalizing, then sell it to the unions.  Communism at its best.  Lenin and Stalin would be very proud of today's Democrat Party.
> ...



Liquidation is the ultimate 'compromise' for the business owner. 

You must mean the business should consider just keeping the doors open and losing money just to be nice guys.


----------



## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 17, 2012)

*It could survive this ....*






*But, it couldn't survive this....*


----------



## occupied (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > Votto said:
> ...



Perhaps you missed the numerous articles detailing how these Bain type outfits operate, these people are not in the business of preserving any jobs, any benefit or anything that makes the greater economy stronger, they are in it to suck as much profit from a deal as possible, period. There is allegedly no such thing as a person making too much money when they are sitting around a conference table, the CEO of this company that failed made more in a year than most of us see in a lifetime, nothing wrong with that in your book I guess, but it's just terrible that a regular worker make a decent salary.


----------



## AmyNation (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Murf76 said:
> ...


----------



## Votto (Nov 17, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> Locke11_21 said:
> 
> 
> > The real truth is, unions, the Democrat Party and Obama are to blame for the demise of Hostess.  This was a well planned effort to destroy Hostess and force them out of business.  Well, guess what, a so called group _"We The People"_ is petitioning Barack HUSSEIN Obama to NATIONALIZE Hostess.  Yes, "We The People", a White House organization.   So, drive Hostess out of business, then save it by nationalizing, then sell it to the unions.  Communism at its best.  Lenin and Stalin would be very proud of today's Democrat Party.
> ...



Here is your chance to sign the petition.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/nationalize-twinkie-industry/cJz0ngJR

Won't you sign and help nationalize the twinkie industry?  They need 25,000 votes but only have 1,813 so far.


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## Votto (Nov 17, 2012)

occupied said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



To be honest I don't know anything about the people who ran the company but neither do you.  Perhaps they were just weary of fighting the unions and government obstacles to keep the company afloat and just decided to cash it all in and retire.  Currently there are no laws about doing this that I know of, but I'm sure there will be some in the near future.


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## Chris (Nov 17, 2012)

A company that makes junk food goes out of business.

Good for America.


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## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

occupied said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



No businesses are in business to preserve jobs, retard. 

Hostess was struggling to emerge from their 5 year bankruptcy, told their employees that if they went on strike and halted production, then they would have no choice but to close the business.

The stupid fucking employees went on strike.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

Votto said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...



It was a loooong struggle. They stayed in bankruptcy for 5 years from 04-09.  Emerged as a private company but looks as if they just could not turn it around. :

Hostess Brands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

Chris said:


> A company that makes junk food goes out of business.
> 
> Good for America.





Those 18K people who just lost jobs probably don't agree with you.


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## Political Junky (Nov 17, 2012)

Votto said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...


No doubt some cons will believe that.


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## American_Jihad (Nov 17, 2012)

AmyNation said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...


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## Plasmaball (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Plasmaball said:
> 
> 
> > Locke11_21 said:
> ...



Are you fucking stupid or something sniper? Did i state thats what i wanted to see happen? No, no i fucking didnt. So do me a favor, shut the fuck up and go play your stupid games someplace else. You are play political football with peoples jobs, just like the owner and the unions are doing. Both are wrong, and both are right in certain areas. The loser is the worker who gets laid off, who is working pay check to pay check.

Next time you choose to post, dont bother. I don't need to read your waste of bandwidth. This is why we have abortion rights, so people like you are never created in the first place.


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## Againsheila (Nov 17, 2012)

MikeK said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > I just can't wrap my head around workers who would rather put their employer and by extension, themselves, out of business, rather than work for less.
> ...



Hostess Blames Union For Bankruptcy After Tripling CEO's Pay | ThinkProgress

BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256. 

I think they deserved to close and I think the extra pay for the CEOs and top executives should be divided up and given to the workers.  It's not the union that drove Hostess out of business it's the capitalist looters that did that.


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## Cowman (Nov 17, 2012)

Twinkies have a very short shelf life... UNLIKE OBAMA! 4 more years bitch! BAM!


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 17, 2012)

Cowman said:


> Twinkies have a very short shelf life... UNLIKE OBAMA! 4 more years bitch! BAM!



Don't count on it...bitch! Things are starting to look pretty hairy for ol' Oblama with this Benghazi thing. LOL! Don't worry though, I'm sure they'll let you visit him in prison. They might even let you have conjugal visits. BAM!


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## Politico (Nov 17, 2012)

Yay! Twinkie thread 100!!!!

Obama doesn't have shit to do with Hostess. Fail..........


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## Dick Tuck (Nov 17, 2012)

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Union workers lost their jobs over a two percent cut in their pensions? FUCKING BRILLIANT.



What a fucking liar you are. 

Hostess Brands closing for good due to bakers strike - Nov. 16, 2012



> The new contract cut salaries across the company by 8% in the first year of the five-year agreement. Salaries were then scheduled to bump up 3% in the next three years and 1% in the final year.
> 
> Hostess also reduced its pension obligations and its contribution to the employees' health care plan. In exchange, the company offered concessions, including a 25% equity stake for workers and the inclusion of two union representatives on an eight-member board of directors.


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## Dick Tuck (Nov 17, 2012)

Don't worry, Twinkies will survive - The Term Sheet: Fortune's deals blog Term Sheet



> FORTUNE -- Twinkies are going to be around for a long time to come. And not just because they're the foodstuff of choice for the zombie apocalypse.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


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## editec (Nov 17, 2012)

Twinkies are just another victim of the CREATIVE CAPITALISM.

They cannot compete in the marketplace ergo they deserve to shut down.


Oh you say its because they have to pay for health care just like EVERY OTHER COMPANY?

So then you admit that they cannot compete with their competition that has exactly the same HC payments?

So TWINKIES is a LOSER company according to Libertarian thinking.

TWINKIES is being destroyed by the market forces, _not by ObamaCAre_.


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## WillowTree (Nov 17, 2012)

The unions just voted themselves out of 18,000 jobs. I'm laughing.


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## USNavyVet (Nov 17, 2012)

editec said:


> Twinkies are just another victim of the CREATIVE CAPITALISM.
> 
> They cannot compete in the marketplace ergo they deserve to shut down.
> 
> ...



Twinkies were actually destroyed by the unions.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> I am pretty sure asking $4.79 for a box of Ho Hos killed Hostess.
> 
> Then again, how else are you going to pay a guy $30 an hour to stock shelves?



Or 2.5 million paid to the CEO to decide what kind of wrapper they put on the  HoHo....


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## Seawytch (Nov 17, 2012)

Hostess Continues Pattern Of Misinformation


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

Trajan said:


> Another 6,700 Hostess workers were represented by the Teamsters, a union that was sharply critical of the Bakers' decision to strike. Those jobs largely include truckers, many who both transported and sold Hostess products.
> 
> Trucking is a higher paying field, offering a national average of $22 an hour. Including base pay and commission, Hostess Teamsters workers *could* have earned between $50,000 to $100,000 a year, said O'Brien.
> 
> ...



There's a scientist out there making less than 50K?  That's a fucking tragedy. 

I did notice that 100K was the high end they "could" have made.  Was anyone actually making that much. 

The point was, the unions had given up a lot in wages and benefits after the 2004 Bankruptcy, and were promised by the owners that they would re-invest in the company. instead, most of the 150 million in savings were paid out in dividends to the hedge funds and salaries and bonuses to the executives.. 

And not surprisingly, when their competitors grabbed up more of the market share, well, let's just blame those greedy union guys for not taking another 8% pay cut on top of the pay cuts they've already taken, dammit.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

MikeK said:


> AmyNation said:
> 
> 
> > I just can't wrap my head around workers who would rather put their employer and by extension, themselves, out of business, rather than work for less.
> ...



I consider myself pretty pro-union, but PATCO really had no one to blame but themselves. 

Their contract SPECIFICALLY had a no-strike clause, and their strike endangered public safety. 

What they thought was that they could intimidate the new guy.  They thought wrong. 

I do agree with your first point, though, that the union in this case realized that they were in a no win situation, the owners of Hostess would just keep running the company into the ground until they sucked the last dollar out of it like the cream filling in a Twinky.


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## tyroneweaver (Nov 17, 2012)

occupied said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> > occupied said:
> ...



you voted for the 21 tax increases...which will be on yourself.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> The unions just voted themselves out of 18,000 jobs. I'm laughing.



Maybe you need to stop by the old folks home and watch some of them fall down due to their infirmaties...  

Somewhere at an early age, you didn't learn the difference between horror and comedy.


----------



## zeke (Nov 17, 2012)

This was nothing  more than the vaunted "capitalism" at work. 

Product sucks, sales fall, company sold to the wonderful hedge funds, wages cut, promises made, promises not kept, big bonuses paid to top executives, sales suck, unions strike, product still sucks, shut the company down.  Hedge funds walk away with big bucks.

Capitalism at work. What is the problem? And it sure wasn't Obama fault that Twinkies suck.


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## Seawytch (Nov 17, 2012)

BallsBrunswick said:


> That's the vibe on the street here in Seattle. The company got new management which sucked the company dry and then chose to liquidate it for the quick money. Fucking over a national institution and a couple thousand jobs in the process.



BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a *300 percent raise* (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.

Read more here: Hostess Continues Pattern Of Misinformation - PR Newswire - The Sacramento Bee​


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## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

Plasmaball said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Plasmaball said:
> ...



Yes, in fact, you did.

We shall prove it to all.

What was the last year Hostess actually made a profit?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > The unions just voted themselves out of 18,000 jobs. I'm laughing.
> ...



"You don't lead by hitting people over the head - that's assault, not leadership.
"

- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Your support of obama makes you hypocritical using this as a signature.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> "You don't lead by hitting people over the head - that's assault, not leadership.
> "
> 
> - Dwight D. Eisenhower
> ...



Please point out where Obama is hitting you over the head... 

because, frankly, you seem to spend your every waking moment whining about him.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > "You don't lead by hitting people over the head - that's assault, not leadership.
> ...



Forced health care tax?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



So let me ask you an honest question here. 

Are you really going through life without any kind of health insurance coverage because you are such a rugged indivualist?  

Because, frankly, I hear all you folks screaming about the health care tax, and all of you either have private insurance or are on some government program like Medicare.  

People screaming about having to get health coverage are like people who are screaming they don't have the right to run down the street naked.  It's something they'd never actually do, but they don't like being told they can't do it.


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## Seawytch (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Reducing the burden on fortunate or responsible individuals that have health insurance. Where is the party of personal responsibility?


----------



## Cammmpbell (Nov 17, 2012)

bitterlyclingin said:


> [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
> Richard Trumka says he's going to send his union goons door to door to convince American businessmen to see the light regarding Obamanomics.]
> 
> "Back in September, following acceptance by the Teamsters. the bakers&#8217; union (BCTGM) at bankrupt Hostess brands&#8212;makers of the iconic Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder brand breads&#8212;rejected a company proposal to help keep the company in business. By a voice vote of its members, the union opened the door to conduct a company-killing strike and potentially putting 18,500 Hostess workers onto the streets.
> ...



We don't have to worry about Hostess. Some goddam entepreneur like Romulus will come along, screw the employees out of their pensions and a living wage, then open up the "ding dongs" under a new name. Union bustin' is a lot older than I am and I'm 78.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Do you have any clue about what you just wrote?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I thought what she wrote was pretty clear.  

And I noticed you didn't answer my question.  

For those of us who work for/pay for our insurance, those who show up at a hospital emergency room for treatment and welch out on their bills make it harder for all of us. 

So why are you defending that?  

Oh.. because you don't like the government telling people do to things. Mean old Government.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I take care of myself I don't allow the doctor to dictate to me nor will I allow the government to dictate to me. I will refuse to pay any tax such as this. That's why I work for cash only. No checks


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## Bill Angel (Nov 17, 2012)

Why did Hostess Bakery go out of business?
 Because people are eating less snack foods and more of healthy alternatives like fruit.



Why Hostess Bakery Went out of business​


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



Where the personal responsibility when you are depending on someone else for their help? That's why the question was stupid to ask and not answered.


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## Dick Tuck (Nov 17, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> The unions just voted themselves out of 18,000 jobs. I'm laughing.



Why would you laugh, if you weren't a total douche?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XspQjtWv1pc]WHAT ABOUT THE TWINKIE - Ghostbusters - YouTube[/ame]


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## thanatos144 (Nov 17, 2012)

Notice how all the progressive scum scrabbling with a many many explanations to cover up the truth that the union killed Hostess??? Hey union assholes I liked my twinki's you greedy bastards.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Where the personal responsibility when you are depending on someone else for their help? That's why the question was stupid to ask and not answered.



Since we don't let people die in the street, that question is sort of irrelevent... 

And it was a valid question...  Why should I have to pay for the health care of someone who is  too irresponsible to get health insurance coverage?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Notice how all the progressive scum scrabbling with a many many explanations to cover up the truth that the union killed Hostess??? Hey union assholes I liked my twinki's you greedy bastards.



Is this you?


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## Dick Tuck (Nov 17, 2012)

Why aren't right wingers pissed off about people who more than doubled their salary, telling people that they should give up 8% of theirs?  What's the upside for you fucking morons?


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## Freewill (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



The emergency room argument doesn't hold a lot of water with me.  Let's us say that health care, for a family cost 500 $/month.  Let's say an emergency visit for a cold or such cost 1000 $/visit.  That means a person could go to the emergency room 6 times/year and it would be break even.  EXCEPT when covered under a health care plan the individual will use MORE health care which will cost MORE.  So the right and wrong of providing everyone health care at no cost to some can be debated.  But the argument that doing so is going to cost those who pay their way NOW a whole lot more is not debatable, it can be no other way.  Unless the cost of what one pays for a band aid in the hospital drops and I don't see that happening.


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## Dick Tuck (Nov 17, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Notice how all the progressive scum scrabbling with a many many explanations to cover up the truth that the union killed Hostess??? Hey union assholes I liked my twinki's you greedy bastards.



What would you do if your boss told you to cut your salary by 8%?


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## Cammmpbell (Nov 17, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Notice how all the progressive scum scrabbling with a many many explanations to cover up the truth that the union killed Hostess??? Hey union assholes I liked my twinki's you greedy bastards.



I told you goddamit.....your twinkies and ding dongs are just fine. It's union bustin'


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Where the personal responsibility when you are depending on someone else for their help? That's why the question was stupid to ask and not answered.
> ...



again that is not what was asked
Do you understand what personal responsibility means?  So how many people die with healthcare coverage?
and again the question and your question has no meaning until you have an understanding about the meaning of  personal responsibility

Here's an example I take care of myself I pay my way that would be an example of being__________ ______________?


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## rdean (Nov 17, 2012)

'Twinkie defense'?  Was this the first 'Twinkie Defense'?

The impressionable jury, they'll say, swallowed the defense contention that Dan White gobbled Twinkies, which blasted sugar through his arteries and drove him into a murderous frenzy. About as simple as: "Eat a Twinkie, commit a murder."

--------------

Except that he did kill a father of five.  Shooting him the second time up close in the head to make sure he was dead and then only got 5 years in prison.  Conservatives applauded the verdict at the time thinking it was too severe.  But after he got out, no one wanted him in their community.  He eventually committed suicide.


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## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> Why aren't right wingers pissed off about people who more than doubled their salary, telling people that they should give up 8% of theirs?  What's the upside for you fucking morons?




People who stock shelves are a dime a thousand.

Now, this wouldn't matter if you Libtards were willing to pay $4.99 for a box of Ho-Hos. 

But like everyone else, you aren't.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

Freewill said:


> The emergency room argument doesn't hold a lot of water with me.  Let's us say that health care, for a family cost 500 $/month.  Let's say an emergency visit for a cold or such cost 1000 $/visit.  That means a person could go to the emergency room 6 times/year and it would be break even.  EXCEPT when covered under a health care plan the individual will use MORE health care which will cost MORE.  So the right and wrong of providing everyone health care at no cost to some can be debated.  But the argument that doing so is going to cost those who pay their way NOW a whole lot more is not debatable, it can be no other way.  Unless the cost of what one pays for a band aid in the hospital drops and I don't see that happening.



I think you vastly underestimate what going to an emergency room costs.  

In 2007, (the year I had all the medical issues that eventually cost me my job and turned me off from the GOP), I had to go to the emergency room after I slipped on some ice and effectively destroyed my left knee.  

They gave me a shot of painkiller, and a pair of crutches. 

And they charged my insurance company $1800.00 for doing effectively nothing. 

Had I gone to my GP, they'd have done the same things, and charged me a lot less. 

And that's the problem.  When you make the emergency room the doctor of choice for poor people, you run up costs.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Completely Retarded?  

Because you aren't taking care of yourself, guy.  If you get seriously ill or injured, to the point where you end up having to pay a huge medical bill, usually it means your insurance company is taking from everyone else who didn't get sick that year to pay for you.  

That's why I find you screaming about "Socialism" so fucking hilarious. It's all "socialism" as far as health care. It's just a matter of who gets to live in the Kremlin.


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## percysunshine (Nov 17, 2012)

Trajan said:


> I'll miss them....



You have sno balls?

chuckle...


----------



## Cammmpbell (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Why did Romulus pass universal health care in Massachusetts including a mandate? Kind of amazing that the bunch of opportunistic pricks running for something are always ready and willing to change their position for some votes. That's what this country has come to...........a bunch of money driven bullshit.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 17, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Notice how all the progressive scum scrabbling with a many many explanations to cover up the truth that the union killed Hostess??? Hey union assholes I liked my twinki's you greedy bastards.



To be precise, over 40 unions were involved in negotiations.   All of them came to an agreement except for the Baker's union.  Hostess met Teamster union demands that bread could not be delivered in the same truck as dessert items and increased the truck fleet.    The Baker's union wanted more, and killed the jobs for all the other union members.   The unions are eating one another.


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## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Notice how all the progressive scum scrabbling with a many many explanations to cover up the truth that the union killed Hostess??? Hey union assholes I liked my twinki's you greedy bastards.
> ...



LOL.  Complete dumbasses.   Why use common sense and be more efficient?

I hate to say it, but they get what they deserve.


----------



## theHawk (Nov 17, 2012)

Truthmatters said:


> hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> 
> 
> workers have rights even if you dont want them to have *rights.*
> ...



Exactly what "rights" are you talking about?  It's not like their company was using these employees as slave labor.

My suspicion is you're talking about entitlements not "rights".


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Yes your reply was completely retarded.
Here are the facts you are clueless to what   personal responsibility means.
If I take care of myself pay my way would mean I am being personally responsible. I refuse to allow you or a doctor of the government to dictate what I do with MY money.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Yes your reply was completely retarded.
> Here are the facts you are clueless to what   personal responsibility means.
> If I take care of myself pay my way would mean I am being personally responsible. I refuse to allow you or a doctor of the government to dictate what I do with MY money.



Guy, you avoid the question... 

Do you have insurance or not? 

If you do, you are a fucking socialist. 

Deal with it.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes your reply was completely retarded.
> ...



How can I fucking answer the question when you do not understand the meaning of   personal responsibility? When you understand that you will realize the first question was stupid.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> He also forgot he claims to be a conservative....slip of the tongue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, I just see the difference between a conservative and a reactionary plutocrat.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

blackhawk said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > THousands of right wingers face starvation....
> ...



You know, the fat white trash trailer park type who listens to Rush telling them how "them welfare people" are making their lives miserable when they stuff their faces with Twinkies and Ding Dongs, and get all upset when Michelle Obama tells their kids to eat healthy.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> How can I fucking answer the question when you do not understand the meaning of   personal responsibility? When you understand that you will realize the first question was stupid.



it wasn't a stupid question guy... 

If you are buying insurance, you are gambling that if you get seriously sick, that someone else will pay your freight.  

My guess is you get insurance through your employer, and he's paying most of the freight to start with, which is why you avoid the question.  

And if you are really lucky, you won't have an employer like the last one I had, the one who decided that if an employee got sick, injured or pregnant, they needed to be gotten off the payroll as soon as possible.


----------



## percysunshine (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Well, that was logical....


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



His avatar fits nicely: he's DUMB as a bag of hammers.  He specializes in stupid.


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## rightwinger (Nov 17, 2012)

The Twinkie is not dead. Another company with a better financial structure will take over the brand and life will go on


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## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

Jarlaxle said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Our public education system has failed us.


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## KissMy (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



There is absolutely no personal responsibility since Reagan signed the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA). All Affordable Care Act (ACA) does is make the freeloaders pay their way instead of mooching off of US responsible citizens.

If you want to complain about a commie socialist law then complain about the EMTLA. It says if you & your group build a health care facility then everyone gets free health care from it except you people who paid for it.


----------



## percysunshine (Nov 17, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> The Twinkie is not dead. Another company with a better financial structure will take over the brand and life will go on



Without a union contract....


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 17, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > The Twinkie is not dead. Another company with a better financial structure will take over the brand and life will go on
> ...



Possibly


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

KissMy said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Really?

The people aren't responsible for paying for the visit and are not sent a bill for services rendered?

Got a link?


But truth is, you are ranting ignorantly again, aren't you?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



sorry, man, I went to Catholic Schools. 

Catholic schools that we could afford because all our families back in the day belonged to unions that paid good salaries.  

But I go back to the point, why not answer the question.  

If you buy insurance, and your medical expenses exceed your payments, how are you not a socialist?  

How are you not even MORE of a socialist when someone else pays for your insurance?


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



They just give fake names and walk out on the bills.  Heck, illegal aliens have been using emergency rooms as free clinics for YEARS!


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



Even Catholic schools fail at times.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Even Catholic schools fail at times.



The only fail I see is your trolling. 

You guys put  Plutocracy on the ballot last week. 

And you lost.


----------



## KissMy (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



Only an idiot like you would think closing the barn door after all the horses ran off was a great idea.  Irresponsible assholes never pay when you let them consume the product & bill them later. Someone has to be the bill collector on deadbeats & stand at the check cashing window collecting on their bill before they blow it at the strip club.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

KissMy said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > KissMy said:
> ...



No link, then?

LOL


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > How can I fucking answer the question when you do not understand the meaning of   personal responsibility? When you understand that you will realize the first question was stupid.
> ...



It's stupid to say someone needs to be personally responsible and tell others they are responsible for others and forget about those who are not responsible for their on actions.


----------



## KissMy (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...



Bill who retard?

The imaginary name they thought up on the way to the ER?  Or the illegal alien that no one can find? 

Isn't it time for you to go into the back of the kitchen & suck off the manager who promoted you to fry cook.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

KissMy said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > KissMy said:
> ...



No linky then?

ROTFL


----------



## GoneBezerk (Nov 17, 2012)

A new company making the new Twinkie can rise from the ashes and the new company can tell the old unions workers to go fuck themselves....enjoy your Obama money.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> A new company making the new Twinkie can rise from the ashes and the new company can tell the old unions workers to go fuck themselves....enjoy your Obama money.




People could give a fuck if their HOHOs are put on the shelf by some overpaid Teamster or not. 

Long live the Twinkie!


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## JOSweetHeart (Nov 17, 2012)

If the Hostess company closes up shop, their Brownie Bites will be what I miss.   

God bless you and them always!!!   

Holly


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## daveman (Nov 17, 2012)

rdean said:


> 'Twinkie defense'?  Was this the first 'Twinkie Defense'?
> 
> The impressionable jury, they'll say, swallowed the defense contention that Dan White gobbled Twinkies, which blasted sugar through his arteries and drove him into a murderous frenzy. About as simple as: "Eat a Twinkie, commit a murder."
> 
> ...


I'd ask you to prove this, but you're a lying sack of shit.  Offhand, I'd say it was the left that thought the sentence was too severe.


----------



## AquaAthena (Nov 17, 2012)

CrotchetyGeezer said:


> *It could survive this ....*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*
And neither could this:*
*
Medical supply giant Stryker is the latest company to announce job cuts* in anticipation of coming costs associated with ObamaCare, even though the man who inherited a fortune from the company's founder is a fan.
*
The company will cut 1,170 jobs, or five percent of its worldwide workforce,* despite the fact that the founder's grandson was one of the largest contributors to President Obamas re-election campaign.


Read more: Medical giant Stryker cuts 1,170 jobs, citing ObamaCare | Fox News


----------



## KissMy (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...



When are you going to pay on all those mortgage bills that were sent out?

When are you going to pay on all those health-care bills that were sent out?

The honor system ain't working on Wallstreet or on you freeloaders.

You retards suspended pay-go & racked up a huge debt bill & are now refusing to pay it.

Since you can't quit spending & are delinquent on your bills, the collection agent has arrived. Your crying & refusing to hand over the cash/raise debt limit aren't going to defer the payments any longer. So SUCK IT UP LOSER & PAY YOUR TAB. Your credit rating was downgraded & you are all out of credit.


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## blackhawk (Nov 17, 2012)

I can see people going crazy wanting to find twinkies like Woody Harrelson in Zombieland. LOL.


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## rightwinger (Nov 17, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> A new company making the new Twinkie can rise from the ashes and the new company can tell the old unions workers to go fuck themselves....enjoy your Obama money.



Workers have a right to unionize. The new company may very well be union. But they will be more financially solvent than Hostess


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## auditor0007 (Nov 17, 2012)

cutter said:


> I haven't had a Twinkie in years. I went out and bought a box of 20 today just for old time sake.  They are every bit as good as I remember. Good bye twinkie. You'll be missed.



We will see them again, unfortunately.  They still sell well, so some other company will pick up the rights to them. It's funny how so many of you told us we should let GM and Chrysler go belly up, but your're throwing a hissy fit over Twinkies.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Nov 17, 2012)

Hostess won't hire you hicks, they will move the facility to a non-friendly union state like SC.  Meanwhile you dumbfucks can watch them leave town with your job.



rightwinger said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > A new company making the new Twinkie can rise from the ashes and the new company can tell the old unions workers to go fuck themselves....enjoy your Obama money.
> ...


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 17, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> A new company making the new Twinkie can rise from the ashes and the new company can tell the old unions workers to go fuck themselves....enjoy your Obama money.



As so many of you demonize unions, we continue to see wages fall.  Pretty soon, the vast majority of American workers will be earning $10.00 per hour.  Eventually, it will destroy the economy completely.  You can't grow an economy when companies only want to pay their employees minimum wage, and that is exactly what had been happening over the last ten plus years.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Nov 17, 2012)

Shithead....get a college degree if you don't think working in a factory for $10 an hour is a good job. 

It is amazing there are people on this planet that are millionaires....and they never joined a union, eh? Ohhhh, they needed a union to give them a job to pay their bills....they didn't build that, right?

Just because you deliver pizzas for a living doesn't mean that was my goal and ceiling in life, Goober.

Unions have been going away from society each decade, meanwhile you asswipes are warning us of all the dangers of losing unions.....I bet that horse and buggy thing will come back someday vs the car, in your demented mind.



auditor0007 said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > A new company making the new Twinkie can rise from the ashes and the new company can tell the old unions workers to go fuck themselves....enjoy your Obama money.
> ...


----------



## Si modo (Nov 17, 2012)

Lakhota said:


> Sounds like company greed took down ole Twinkie...
> 
> Hostess Blames Union For Bankruptcy After Tripling CEO's Pay | ThinkProgress



Sucks being stupid.  Smarts gets one in executive positions.

Too fucking bad.


----------



## Cammmpbell (Nov 17, 2012)

theHawk said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> ...



Horse shit! Unions made the middle class.....before that everybody sucked wind. I was there:


----------



## chesswarsnow (Nov 17, 2012)

Sorry bout that,


1. Maybe Twinkie will come to the *NEW TEXAS NATION*???


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


----------



## cutter (Nov 17, 2012)

auditor0007 said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > A new company making the new Twinkie can rise from the ashes and the new company can tell the old unions workers to go fuck themselves....enjoy your Obama money.
> ...



Labor is a supply and demand product like anything else. All of you that want to see "comprehensive immigration reform" (amnesty)  and let in millions of people who are uneducated and willing to work for minim wage will see more of your high paying union jobs go to someone willing to work for less.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 17, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Shithead....get a college degree if you don't think working in a factory for $10 an hour is a good job.
> 
> It is amazing there are people on this planet that are millionaires....and they never joined a union, eh? Ohhhh, they needed a union to give them a job to pay their bills....they didn't build that, right?
> 
> ...



College Degrees aren't paying much better


----------



## squinch (Nov 17, 2012)

Let's face it.  The "twinkie" brand is becoming toxic.  No other product is more closley identified with the obesity problem then those spongy little dudes. 
America is changing.  Hostess, Little Debbie and others are in trouble.


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 17, 2012)

People that blame unions for the problems in business are fools.

They, the unions, are no more to blame than the owners of companies that get the most the market will bare for the products or sevices they provide.

The problem with Hostess is that they sell flawed products.  America consumes an insane ammount of sugar.  The cost of diabetes is a serious burden to the cost of health care in our country. 

We are better off without high sugar snacks like twinkies and sno balls.


----------



## Photonic (Nov 17, 2012)

Strange, why did they raise the CEO's pay by 3x?


There were plans to liquefy and close factories even if the workers took the pay cuts.

Why are they blaming it on their workers? It sounds like a scapegoat.

I guess people would rather be blind and hold on to whatever is most convenient, than to understand something, and change how you think.


----------



## cutter (Nov 17, 2012)

squinch said:


> Let's face it.  The "twinkie" brand is becoming toxic.  No other product is more closley identified with the obesity problem then those spongy little dudes.
> America is changing.  Hostess, Little Debbie and others are in trouble.



The obesety problem isn't twinkies it's lifestyle. How many of us remember being kids and actually playing outside after school? Hide and seek till dark, sertte baseball, girls playing hio-scotch and boys just throwing rocks in a field. The only thing kids play anymore is video games. Parents need to make sure kids have an appreciation for playing outside, then they can come in and have a twinkie.


----------



## Photonic (Nov 17, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> occupied said:
> 
> 
> > Don't mourn the Twinkie, it's a small price to pay in the  big business war on American working class pensions and decent wages.
> ...



Oh shut up, the company was going under long before they asked the Union members. The Union members still made concessions and they had planned to liquefy even if the concessions were made.


----------



## Kimura (Nov 17, 2012)

There's more to this story. I find it amazing how the CEO and upper management can give themselves massive raises while the company circles the drain.



> In fact, according to the company's 1113 filing with the bankruptcy court earlier this year as well as its last/best/final and non-negotiable proposal to its BCTGM-represented workers, the company was planning to close at least nine bakeries as part of its reorganization plan, although the company refused to disclose which bakeries it intended to close.  This is in addition to the three bakeries that were to be closed as a result of the company's planned sale of its Merita division.





> Over the past eight years since the first Hostess bankruptcy, BCTGM members have watched as money from previous concessions that was supposed to go towards capital investment, product development, plant improvement and new equipment, was squandered in executive bonuses, payouts to Wall Street investors and payments to high-priced attorneys and consultants.





> BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.



Hostess Continues Pattern Of Misinformation


----------



## GoneBezerk (Nov 17, 2012)

So liberals whine that companies are going out of business since unions are driving them out of business....meanwhile those same dumbfuck liberals want to make 10M-15M illegals "Americans" so that they can take jobs from union workers.....


----------



## Photonic (Nov 17, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> So liberals whine that companies are going out of business since unions are driving them out of business....meanwhile those same dumbfuck liberals want to make 10M-15M illegals "Americans" so that they can take jobs from union workers.....



You really have no interest in why the company actually went out of business, do you?


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 17, 2012)

I was reading this link earlier.  It is an unbiased report on the "Hostess" story.

"*Who's to Blame for the Hostess Bankruptcy: Wall Street, Unions, or Carbs? *By Jordan Weissmann 
 inShare0Nov 16 2012, 6:02 PM ET 38 

Try all of the above.


(Reuters)
Hostess Brands, the maker of Twinkie and Wonder Bread, is getting ready to bake its last corn-syrupy snack cake. After failing to win major contract concessions from one of its key labor unions, the beleaguered 82-year-old company has asked a federal bankruptcy court for permission to start liquidating its assets -- or, in real person speak, begin the process of selling off pieces of the company to the highest bidder while laying off most of its 18,500 workers.   

There are two important things to realize about this rather sad situation. First: Twinkie, Wonder, and all the other high-calorie marvels of culinary science Hostess sells aren't going to disappear from shelves for good. One of its competitors will likely swoop in, buy them up, and restart production. So you can stop bidding on $100 boxes of Sno Balls on eBay.  

Second: This is not a simple story that anybody should try to slot neatly into their political talking points. It's not just about Wall Street preying on Main Street, or big bad labor unions sucking a wholesome American company dry. It's about an entire galaxy of bad decisions that will cost many people their jobs and money.  

As David Kaplan chronicled at length for Fortune earlier this year, the roots of this debacle go back to when Hostess entered its first bankruptcy in 2004. Not unlike the situation automakers would find themselves in a few years later, the company was collapsing under the weight of flagging sales, overly generous union contracts replete with ridiculous work rules, and gobs of debt. But unlike the automakers, the five years Hostess spent trying to fix itself in Chapter 11 didn't fix its fundamental problems. 

Instead, they set the stage for its eventual demise. A private equity company, Ripplewood Holdings, paid about $130 million dollars to take Hostess private, and the company's two major unions, the Teamsters and the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, sacrificed about $110 million in annual wages and benefits. But its labor contracts were still deeply flawed. Worse yet, the company left bankruptcy saddled with more debt than it went in with -- "an unusual circumstance that the company justified on expectations of 'growing' into its capital structure," as Kaplan put it. 

Suffice to say, Hostess didn't do much growing. It continued to lose hundreds of millions of dollars making and selling starchy snacks that much of the public had lost its taste for, while failing to launch any great new products. The interest on its loans swelled the company's debt. By January 2012, it was back in Chapter 11, trying to wrestle a new contract with more concessions from its unions. 

Hostess insisted that unless workers accepted further cuts, the company would have to shut its doors for good. That's the sort of threat that distressed companies often make in labor negotiations, and unions are inclined to consider it a bluff. But after getting a look inside Hostess' books, the Teamsters concluded that the threat was serious. Its members narrowly approved the contract in September. "

Who's to Blame for the Hostess Bankruptcy: Wall Street, Unions, or Carbs? - Jordan Weissmann - The Atlantic


----------



## Mr Natural (Nov 17, 2012)

Yeah, that's the problen all right; working people making too much money.

And you people wonder why you lose elections.


----------



## boedicca (Nov 17, 2012)

Silver lining...no more Twinkie Defenses.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 17, 2012)

Seawytch said:


> Hostess Continues Pattern Of Misinformation



from your link

In fact, according to the company's 1113 filing with the bankruptcy court earlier this year as well as its last/best/final and non-negotiable proposal to its BCTGM-represented workers, the company was planning to close at least nine bakeries as part of its reorganization plan, although the company refused to disclose which bakeries it intended to close.  This is in addition to the three bakeries that were to be closed as a result of the company's planned sale of its Merita division. 

Moreover, St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay was quoted in a November 13 KMOX-CBS St. Louis article stating, "I was told months ago they were planning on closing the site in St. Louis And there was no indication at that time it had anything to do with the strike the workers were waging." 

I think sometimes you need to do more than put up a link.  These people won't go looking for anything that might change their limited view.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



sounds like you work under the table and don't pay taxes.  That is a crime.  It's also unfair to those of us who don't work under the table and fork over the income taxes.


----------



## sfcalifornia (Nov 17, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> I was reading this link earlier.  It is an unbiased report on the "Hostess" story.
> 
> "*Who's to Blame for the Hostess Bankruptcy: Wall Street, Unions, or Carbs? *By Jordan Weissmann
> inShare0Nov 16 2012, 6:02 PM ET 38
> ...



There's the real reason Hostess is going out of business right there.  

If a corporation doesn't keep up with people's tastes and preferences, it will go out of business every time.


----------



## Cammmpbell (Nov 17, 2012)

Mr Clean said:


> Yeah, that's the problen all right; working people making too much money.
> 
> And you people wonder why you lose elections.



Their balls are in a vise now......they can either change or disappear. Ever since the Reagan years they've been trying to funnel all the money to the top. Neither party has ever cut spending a dime but at least up through Clinton the Democrats taxed enough to keep the fiscal picture in order. George Bush destroyed everything. Took over surpluses, cut taxes for the rich twice, started two wars...one totally by choice and unnecessary, doubled the national debt and ran the economy into a ditch. What a legacy. No wonder the GOP didn't want him at their convention. Do you suppose they have simply forgotten how to select a good candidate?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > A new company making the new Twinkie can rise from the ashes and the new company can tell the old unions workers to go fuck themselves....enjoy your Obama money.
> ...



Conversely, people could give a fuck if the CEO made seven figures to do... well, whatever it is CEO's do. Make bad decisions, I guess.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> So liberals whine that companies are going out of business since unions are driving them out of business....meanwhile those same dumbfuck liberals want to make 10M-15M illegals "Americans" so that they can take jobs from union workers.....



The kind of folks who hire illegals are the kind of folks who wouldn't pay a fair wage to start with.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Nov 17, 2012)

Dumbfuck, illegals will work for less money than you white trash factory workers. 

They can cram 20 of them into an apartment to live, so making minimum wage or less is ok for them especially since $1 goes a long way back in Mexico. 

White trash like you need your 2 bedroom apartment by yourself, your car, your HDTV, your PS3, etc.



JoeB131 said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > So liberals whine that companies are going out of business since unions are driving them out of business....meanwhile those same dumbfuck liberals want to make 10M-15M illegals "Americans" so that they can take jobs from union workers.....
> ...


----------



## GoneBezerk (Nov 17, 2012)

Idiot...one of the unions wouldn't take a restructured deal to keep the business viable, so they cost other union workers and non-union workers their job. 

See how that works....one union takes out every other worker. WithOUT a union, some pissed off asswipe like you that thinks you're underpaid would just quit, not taking out everyone out when you couldn't take the deal/contract with the company. 

I bet there are some union workers in that union that would rather keep their job than let their union leaders ruin everyone's job...what a concept.



Photonic said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > So liberals whine that companies are going out of business since unions are driving them out of business....meanwhile those same dumbfuck liberals want to make 10M-15M illegals "Americans" so that they can take jobs from union workers.....
> ...


----------



## FJO (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Judging by her gigantic thighs Michelle Obama must have been a Twinkie gobbler since early childhood.


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 17, 2012)

squinch said:


> Let's face it.  The "twinkie" brand is becoming toxic.  No other product is more closley identified with the obesity problem then those spongy little dudes.
> America is changing.  Hostess, Little Debbie and others are in trouble.



That is the second time this stupid shit has been posted.

Cease and Desist. 

Hostess failed because their flunky UNION trolls took them down.


Sugary snacks are rocking, as evidenced in the obesity, diabetes statistics, and Moochelle's barn-door sized ass. 

And the sales figures.:


'ROCKVILLE, Md.&#8212;Americans are snacking more than ever with retail sales of packaged snacks ringing up $64 billion in 2010, up from $56 billion in 2006, according to Packaged Facts new &#8220;Snack Foods in the U.S., 4th Edition." The market is predicted to reach $77 billion by 2015 fueled by reduced restaurant dining, busier lifestyles and rising health concerns.'

Snack Food Sales Soar to $77 Billion by 2015


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



That was almost incoherent.  

one more time... do you have private insurance, or do you have a stack of money you've set aside for medical emergencies? 

And once that stack of money is exhausted, will you compliantly die in the name of "being responsible for yourself"?  

Somehow, I don't think so.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Stop it dummy 
Do you understand what being personally responsible means? You're pressing me to answer a question when you have yet to answer that question.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You're right get rid of obama tax and I'll start paying taxes again.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

boedicca said:


> Silver lining...no more Twinkie Defenses.



There never was a "Twinky Defense".   

The people who defended homophobic murderer Dan White never said anything about "Twinkies", so maybe not.  

Oh, yeah, and White was convicted.  he served five years and whatever happened to him in there left him such a broken man that he killed himself two years later.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I know exactly what it means.  You should be responsible for what you can control.  

Since most of us can't really control cancer or accidents or hurricanes, we need to make sure repsond to those things collectively, which we do.. 

the difference is, I don't put a douchebag getting rich in teh process over actually helping the person's problem.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

[ame=http://youtu.be/M1vYj0E2Hr0]Zombieland - The Last box of Twinkies - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://youtu.be/TKuMHFJFkRA]Zombie land looking for twinkies funny! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

Don't work in a "factory", I work in an office... get it? 

And at least I work. I'm not sure what it is you do. 

But, hey, keep coming with the racist rants... they are really becoming. 



GoneBezerk said:


> Dumbfuck, illegals will work for less money than you white trash factory workers.
> 
> They can cram 20 of them into an apartment to live, so making minimum wage or less is ok for them especially since $1 goes a long way back in Mexico.
> 
> ...


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



No you don't understand what being personally responsible means. It has nothing to do with what you control
It's about what you do and taking care of yourself. Not others.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> No you don't understand what being personally responsible means. It has nothing to do with what you control
> It's about what you do and taking care of yourself. Not others.



"I've got mine, Fuck you!" 

The Republican Mantra. 

And you wonder why you lost.


----------



## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > No you don't understand what being personally responsible means. It has nothing to do with what you control
> ...


Yes I have mine because I worked hard for it and earned mine. No one gave me anything.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



That's not really true. You offered someone a good or service, and someone paid you a price for it.  

Paid you with legal tender printed by the government.  

Which you were able to do because a civil society decided we were better off looking out for each other rather than running around like a Mad Max Movie rampaging and pillaging.


----------



## bitterlyclingin (Nov 17, 2012)

[Here's a little cutie in the same vein as the semi news, semi satire article "As GM, the Twinkie, and the Snoball go, so goes the nation" Obama's panderpalooza, like the "Caissons just keep rolling along." "Diversity and MultiKulti killed the Twinkie"]

"Remember when the adage used to be As GM goes, so goes the nation. I guess thats (unfortunately) still true, butt now we may have Hostess to add to the axiom: As the Wonder bread goes, so too goes the nation.

Lets review: a few years back the Health Police declared Wonder bread, while basically nutritious, not healthy enough to pass their new rigorous requirements for what THEY want you to eat (fiber). So even though there is nothing wrong with white Wonder bread, other than it tastes good, and even though it has served as the anchor of sandwiches that fueled the work day of Americas workers and students for generations, Hostess felt compelled to mix it up a bit. 

What else can you do when Health Police edicts give preference to other breads that arent as white? The Hostess company began to give into the self-loathing that sprang from the continual onslaught of allegations that their bread was responsible for all thats wrong with America. They were accused of causing everything from impoverished, underperforming inner city schools kids to the national diabetes epidemic. In addition, their unions accused them of being greedy capitalists making money off the backs of the working class. The self-hate began to take its toll. The shareholders voted to try something new, hoping the CHANGE would increase their approval ratings and thereby increase the value of their stock. So they expanded their product line: 

They began offering everything from plain old white to 100% Whole Wheat and every shade in between.

Public pressure to stop eating white bread altogether continued until Won day, Wonder Bread lost its foothold with the enlightened class altogether:


Wonder Bread may be losing its, well, wonder. When it comes to sliced bread, shoppers are spending more on whole wheat than white for the first time. Though white is still slightly ahead in volume, at 1.5 billion packages sold in the last year to 1.3 billion of wheat, that gap is shrinking. And in dollar sales, wheat crept up 0.6% in the last year, to $2.6 billion, while white dropped 7%, to $2.5 billion. 

Although I should note that the 100% whole wheat bread is still a tough sell because some people simply refuse to wean themselves completely from the bread that brought them this far. Butt for those who believe the proclamations of the Health Police and dont want to be accused of being narrow-minded when it comes to their eating habits, the bread of choice seems to be made from a 50/50 blend of white and whole wheat flours. It doesnt taste as good, their cholesterol levels and weight have gone up slightly due to the sugars and fillers used to make it more acceptable on the palate, and it cost a lot more, butt theyre convinced theyre doing the right thing, so theyre sticking with it. 

Being a mirror, Ill be the first to admit that I dont really get the whole concept of self-loathing; everyone that peers into my reflective glory seems to love themselves. 

Butt as I understand it, the psyche of self-contempt has something to do with a self-image generated exclusively by other peoples concept of who/what you should be instead of who you actually are, and your subsequent inability to live up to it. Im afraid this psychological malady might in part be responsible for the demise of Hostess.

Sure, the companys largest union, the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union (BCTGM), has to shoulder some of the responsibility, having initiated the nationwide strike after rejecting an offer made through bankruptcy court. Butt in addition to the years of union demands that crippled the company's profitability, so too did the companys foray into politically correct diversity. They began offering so many new colors and flavors of the day, hoping to attract new customers, that they confused the old customers. They bought something thinking it was another thing and ended up being so disenchanted with the product that they finally stopped buying Hostess altogether and went for Little Debbies.

Allow me to state my case: I reflect, you decide: 

What started out on the bread line moved quickly into every other division of Hostess. First to be improved in the delicious snacks division was the iconic white Snoball:

Apparently white ones were no longer good enough, so they stared to make pink, blue -even lavender Snoballs! Thankfully, however, no yellow....."

Michelle Obama's Mirror: Hostess: they just knead a little more dough


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



That obama bull shit is still bull shit even now. I WORKED FOR IT I EARNED IT, AND IT'S MINE.


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## Photonic (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Because then their interest would lie in keeping that person there with that problem, instead of actually solving it as fast as possible.


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## Photonic (Nov 17, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Idiot...one of the unions wouldn't take a restructured deal to keep the business viable, so they cost other union workers and non-union workers their job.
> 
> See how that works....one union takes out every other worker. WithOUT a union, some pissed off asswipe like you that thinks you're underpaid would just quit, not taking out everyone out when you couldn't take the deal/contract with the company.
> 
> ...



The company already had plans to close either way, with or without the restructuring. Back in January when they filed for bankruptcy, they also filed for bankruptcy back in 2004. They then gave their CEO a massive raise (300%), and several executive's received very large bonus's. They have been afloat on loans and non-existent profit for quite a long time now. 

They then have the nerve to blame it on a union that has made a very large number of concessions with them over and over again. Why don't you look into this shit. Knowledge is power.


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## RoadVirus (Nov 17, 2012)

blackhawk said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > THousands of right wingers face starvation....
> ...



Just another Lib tootin' his horn.


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## RoadVirus (Nov 17, 2012)

squinch said:


> Let's face it.  The "twinkie" brand is becoming toxic.  No other product is more closley identified with the obesity problem then those spongy little dudes.
> America is changing.  Hostess, Little Debbie and others are in trouble.



Baloney. It's lack of exercise that is the main cause of obesity. But the nanny state has made it so that kids can't do much exercising in school and many parents let their kids go into a vegetative state in front of the computer or TV.


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## Cammmpbell (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
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Take care of yourself......how original.

My wife's sister has become the equivalent of a total wreck in the last 10-12 years. She was a crack shot and part of an elite SWAT security team at one of the local nuclear plants. They stayed at the top of preparedness and trained extensively with new approaches to security procedures at the plant and had certain distances they were required to run in so many seconds or minutes just to continue on the team. Out of nowhere her accuracy at the firing range began to fail and after numerous evaluations and tests they discovered she had something called RSD. 



The pain she was having continued to worsen and at some point they decided to do some pretty serious surgery and the surgeon accidently severed a nerve which caused her to lose 80% of her breathing capacity in one lung. Needless to say at that point she became disabled. From then on it's been nothing but downhill. She was diagnosed with breast cancer about four years ago and they did a double mastectomy. While she was still under they brought in a plastic surgeon and he reconstructed her breasts before she ever regained consiousness. She has constant pain and most days doesn't even leave her apartment because of all the medication she takes. She doesn't have anybody but she's so independent that she insists on staying in her own place. We have insisted that she call us every day just so we'll know she's not laying over there dead. My wife and I really have it made so we feel guilty sometimes when we're around her. Most of us take too much for granted.


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## Quantum Windbag (Nov 17, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Don't work in a "factory", I work in an office... get it?
> 
> And at least I work. I'm not sure what it is you do.
> 
> ...



Hate to break it to you boyo, but people who works in a factory think people in offices work. That is a pretty universal attitude, which is why unions get so much traction against you 1% assholes.


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## Warrior102 (Nov 17, 2012)

blackhawk said:


> The Twinkie has died a American original is no more so has the left blamed Bush yet just asking?



The death of the Twinkie, Ho Ho, Ding Dongs, etc. - setting many a "fat=arsed" Libberhoid trailer park single Mom off the fat-, er, fiscal cliff.


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## boedicca (Nov 17, 2012)

Relief is at hand for the DIY Twinkie Enthusiasts:

_Homemade Twinkies Recipe

Ingredients: 

    2 1/2 tablespoons flour (for the cream filling)
    1/2 cup milk (for the cream filling)
    1/2 cup confectioners sugar (for the cream filling)
    1/2 cup cold butter (for the cream filling)
    1 teaspoon banana or vanilla flavoring/extract (for the cream filling)
    1/2 teaspoon salt (for the cream filling)
    2 cups flour
    1 tablespoon baking powder
    2 teaspoons vanilla
    1 cup milk, at room temperature
    8 tablespoons butter, at room temperature
    1 cup sugar
    2 eggs, at room temperature

Instructions: 

    To make the cream filling, mix the flour and milk in a small pan and boil until thick. Cool the mixture, then beat until fluffy.

Add the other four ingredients (confectioners sugar, butter, banana/vanilla extract and salt) one at a time, beating well after each addition. Transfer to the refrigerator for 1 hour. (The cream should be cold and rather stiff when you later pipe it into the cakes, but the act of piping will soften it to the correct consistency.)

    Begin making the sponge cake. Preheat the oven to 350 F, and thoroughly grease 8 to 12 wells in a "Cream Canoe" pan (Rappaport recommends the Norpro 3964).

    Whisk together the flour and baking powder in a bowl. Set aside. Stir the vanilla extract into the milk in a separate bowl, and set that aside as well.

    Cream the butter and sugar in a large bowl until fluffy. Beat the eggs into the batter one at a time, until it is very light and fluffy. Add the flour mixture alternately with the milk, beginning and ending with the flour mixture, thoroughly incorporating each addition before adding the next. Pour batter into prepared pans (Rappaport recommends filling them about halfway, as there is plenty of leavening in the batter.)

    Bake for 15 minutes, or until the cakes are just becoming golden and a toothpick inserted into the center of the center cake comes out clean. Remove from the oven, invert to a wire rack and cool completely before filling.

    Using a pastry bag or cream-filling gun, fill three holes on the underside of each cake with the cream. Slightly overfill the holes, then use your thumb to tamp in the cream._


Homemade Twinkies Recipe | Fox News Magazine


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

Quantum Windbag said:


> [
> 
> Hate to break it to you boyo, but people who works in a factory think people in offices work. That is a pretty universal attitude, which is why unions get so much traction against you 1% assholes.



Okay, this is why I don't talk to you.  You're a crazy person.


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## theDoctorisIn (Nov 17, 2012)

*Threads Merged.*


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## Photonic (Nov 17, 2012)

Cammmpbell said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Don't bother, they refuse to believe illness isn't self-inflicted.


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## Cammmpbell (Nov 17, 2012)

Photonic said:


> Cammmpbell said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



THEY....can kiss my east Tennessee, Big Orange Volunteer, Coon Dawg Ass.


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## Bill Angel (Nov 17, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> People that blame unions for the problems in business are fools.
> 
> They, the unions, are no more to blame than the owners of companies that get the most the market will bare for the products or sevices they provide.
> 
> ...



 There is  a possibility that a program started over two years ago by First Lady Michelle Obama called  "Let's Move" is having positive results in terms of reducing demand for Hostess Products like Twinkies. To quote from that article (see link) "Michelle Obama *formally announced today what she called a 'very ambitious' program to end the American plague of childhood obesity in a single generation."


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## Photonic (Nov 17, 2012)

Bill Angel said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > People that blame unions for the problems in business are fools.
> ...



Our movement towards healthier eating has actually had a massive negative impact on white bread revenue in the US. I can't see how that's anything but positive.


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## Bill Angel (Nov 17, 2012)

Photonic said:


> Bill Angel said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


I agree with you.
Also, I like your icon, a Feynman diagram in which an electron and positron annihilate, producing a virtual photon that becomes a quark-antiquark pair,  one of which radiates a gluon. ;-)


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## JoeB131 (Nov 17, 2012)

Bill Angel said:


> I agree with you.
> Also, I like your icon, a Feynman diagram in which an electron and positron annihilate, producing a virtual photon that becomes a quark-antiquark pair,  one of which radiates a gluon. ;-)



Ahhhh... my liberal arts brain is melting just thinking about that!!!!!


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## Photonic (Nov 17, 2012)

Bill Angel said:


> Photonic said:
> 
> 
> > Bill Angel said:
> ...



I'm a physics researcher and a student of astrophysics. It seemed appropriate given that. 

Still haven't decided if I want to stick with astrophysics PhD or branch to particle physics which is the current "hot area" for research.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

Cammmpbell said:


> Photonic said:
> 
> 
> > Cammmpbell said:
> ...



You aren't getting a dime of my money to maintain your life. Kiss my ass.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 17, 2012)

Cammmpbell said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I have the money to pay for my own healthcare hows that. But you're not getting a dime of MY money so kiss my ass again.


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 17, 2012)

Politico said:


> Yay! Twinkie thread 100!!!!
> 
> Obama doesn't have shit to do with Hostess. Fail..........



*Sure he does. If it wasn't for Obamination, they could afford what the workers want. Fail!*


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 17, 2012)

editec said:


> Twinkies are just another victim of the CREATIVE CAPITALISM.
> 
> They cannot compete in the marketplace ergo they deserve to shut down.
> 
> ...



Only one flaw with your theory. You're assuming these companies who are going to have the same HC payments aren't going to go under as well. It hasn't even started yet...dope. And, who said anything about "_ObamaCAre_"? I didn't say anything about "_ObamaCAre_". And, no, TWINKIES is being destroyed by Obama and his wretched economy over the last four years and what's surely to be a worse economy over the next four years. If the economy were booming, I suspect, the workers would get what they want. It's not, so they didn't.


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## Againsheila (Nov 17, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> squinch said:
> 
> 
> > Let's face it.  The "twinkie" brand is becoming toxic.  No other product is more closley identified with the obesity problem then those spongy little dudes.
> ...



No, hostess failed because they were bought out and looted.


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## Againsheila (Nov 17, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



I don't believe that for a second.   You've admitted to working under the table.  That means you are probably taking advantage of every program you can, including foodstamps.  That's what everybody else I know who works under the table does.  Make sure you have nothing in your name so when you have to visit the hospital, they can't come after you to pay for your care.


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## percysunshine (Nov 17, 2012)

"The market is predicted to reach $77 billion by 2015..."

A trillion here, a trillion there...and pretty soon you are talking about real money...


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## Bill Angel (Nov 17, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > squinch said:
> ...



I read the article you mentioned, and it indicates that snack food companies that are doing well are doing so in part because they are offering more healthful alternatives to the traditional sugary high calorie snack foods. See the quote below from the article:


> Factors driving the snack sector including less frequent restaurant dining, hurried lifestyles that encourage on-the-go eating, a growing tendency to replace meals with several smaller snacks,* and marketer efforts to combat the obesity epidemic by developing healthier snack foods that still taste appealing*.


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## daveman (Nov 17, 2012)

Nobody ever screeches about union bosses making too much money.

Union Facts: Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco Workers & Grain Millers (BCTGMI) Profile, Membership, Leaders, Political Operations, etc.

Officers and Employees
Average Total Compensation: $94,797.07
Total Employees: 58
Employees Making more than $75,000: 31
Top Ten Highest Paid Leaders

Name	Title	Total Compensation
FRANK HURT	PRESIDENT	$262,654.00
DAVID DURKEE	SECRETARY-TREASURER	$244,396.00
JOSEPH THIBODEAU	EXEC VICE PRESIDENT	$218,989.00
STEVE BERTELLI	VICE PRESIDENT	$198,062.00
MICHAEL KONESKO	VICE PRESIDENT	$184,297.00
ARTHUR MONTMINY	VICE PRESIDENT	$175,505.00
ANTHONY JOHNSON	VICE PRESIDENT	$167,433.00
ROBERT OAKLEY	VICE PRESIDENT	$167,265.00
RANDY ROARK	VICE PRESIDENT	$166,849.00
SEAN KELLY	VICE PRESIDENT	$161,789.00


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## MikeK (Nov 18, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> 
> Thanks for collapsing another great American institution, Union filth.


First, you don't know for certain that unreasonable union demands are responsible for the decline in Hostess' viability.  But I'm sure you do know that its flagship product, Twinkies, has been under attack for its exceptional contribution to the obesity problem which probably has resulted in declining revenues.  That very strong probability, combined with the highly suspicious actions of Hostess' executive board, i.e., awarding themselves *inordinately high raises and bonuses* while simultaneously calling for reductions in employee salaries and benefits, strongly suggests those executives know exactly what they are doing and are getting ready to pull a Romney and blame it on the unions.  

But even if I'm completely mistaken, what accounts for your plainly bitter contempt for unions?  While I'm well aware that the history of unions in America is not without some negative chapters, what do you suppose the status of working class Americans would be today were it not for the union movement?  To answer that one need only look back at what it was like back in the Gilded Age.  

I don't know what your age or your social status is but if you consider yourself a member of the American Middle Class you need to understand that were it not for the unions, warts and all, there would be no Middle Class and it is extremely likely that life in America for you, your parents, and your children, would be starkly different.


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## Againsheila (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> Nobody ever screeches about union bosses making too much money.
> 
> Union Facts: Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco Workers & Grain Millers (BCTGMI) Profile, Membership, Leaders, Political Operations, etc.
> 
> ...



Outrageous, and still no where near what Hostesses bosses were being paid.


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## Againsheila (Nov 18, 2012)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > bigrebnc1775 said:
> ...



That would be "you're," if you are going to insult me, do it properly.

Sorry, but you already admitted to cheating the federal government, and by extension, the American taxpayers;  that would make you much closer to scum.  We pay our taxes.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 18, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


I really don't give a fuck what you believe, I earned my money working under the table has nothing to do with food stamps. I have never been on any government program nor will I ever be on one. Now for those people you know.
I'm not the people you know. You hang around scum that must mean your scum.


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 18, 2012)

​


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

and al qaeda is alive


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> Nobody ever screeches about union bosses making too much money.
> 
> Union Facts: Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco Workers & Grain Millers (BCTGMI) Profile, Membership, Leaders, Political Operations, etc.
> 
> ...




Union Boss salaries- They have a lot in common with the people they represent

yes the 1% 

Michael J. Sullivan, general president of the Sheet Metal Workers&#8217; International Association
Salary: $1,043,023

Robert A. Scardelletti, international president of the Transportation Communications Union
Salary: $748,531

Newton B. Jones, president of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers
Salary: $607,022

Terence M. O&#8217;Sullivan, general president of the Laborers&#8217; International Union of North America
Salary: $589,124

John T. Niccollai, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, Local 464A
Salary: $532,752

Gerald McEntee, international president of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees
Salary: $512,369


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## Cammmpbell (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody ever screeches about union bosses making too much money.
> ...



At least they were doing something. Elizabeth Dole drew $300,000 a year for heading the Red Cross...1990 dollars. I'm LMAO!!


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

CEO's earn a portion of their salary for building a company that returns wealth to its employees and shareholders, in the millions

What does the high salary of union bosses do
except show their hypocrisy and ability to extort 

Don't fret, no doubt, today the twinkle tastes extra sweet
to the union fools that just voted for Papa Obama


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## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> CEO's earn a portion of their salary for building a company that returns wealth to its employees and shareholders, in the millions
> 
> What does the high salary of union bosses do
> except show their hypocrisy and ability to extort
> ...



Except CEO's pay themselves huge salaries even when their companies lose money, the shareholders take a bath, they lay thousands of people off.  

Case in point, while they were asking the bakers to take another 8% pay cut, they tripled the CEO's salary..


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

Does that include the Union boss salaries?


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## thanatos144 (Nov 18, 2012)

Its funny cause only people I see telling everyone that the Brass at Hostess was making absurd money is the progressive hit sites....Even more curious is that they dont tell us where they get this info just that it is there.  I think again the useful idiots on this board IE liberals are being played for suckers. Do we even know if the executive staff took a salary reduction? There is no evidence to support the progressives


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## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> Does that include the Union boss salaries?



What was that directed to?  

A union CEO gets paid maybe 10 times what his average member makes, while a CEO gets paid 100 times what a average worker makes.


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

Funny part- Hostess were big Democratic contributors

Really what is their concern, bankruptcy
sell off assets including the naming rights

and the new company will build in a right to work state
and jobs will be created


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## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Its funny cause only people I see telling everyone that the Brass at Hostess was making absurd money is the progressive hit sites....Even more curious is that they dont tell us where they get this info just that it is there.  I think again the useful idiots on this board IE liberals are being played for suckers. Do we even know if the executive staff took a salary reduction? There is no evidence to support the progressives



Twinky-boy removes reality and inserts his own.


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > Does that include the Union boss salaries?
> ...



Economically, a union needs to restrict employment to keep wages high 
Sorry, that is just the way it is...


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## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Neotrotsky said:
> ...



Not really.   

And frankly, what a union does is make sure everyone gets a fair shake from management intent on cheating them.


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Its funny cause only people I see telling everyone that the Brass at Hostess was making absurd money is the progressive hit sites....Even more curious is that they dont tell us where they get this info just that it is there.  I think again the useful idiots on this board IE liberals are being played for suckers. Do we even know if the executive staff took a salary reduction? There is no evidence to support the progressives
> ...



The real twinky-bou, sadly has passed


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Sure it does
read a real book on economics


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## SniperFire (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



Those great Hostess names will be back.

Brought to you competitively priced by new non-union bakers, of course!


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Can you image the look on the Union goon's faces and their members
hearing this so soon after the election where most of them voted for Papa Obama

They got the Twinkie, big time 


The chickens are coming home to roost


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 18, 2012)

Cammmpbell said:


> bigrebnc1775 said:
> 
> 
> > Cammmpbell said:
> ...



Melvin that same shit was said about the Republican party before 2010, were going to tar and feather some dead weight rino's and send them packing your way.


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

I hear you- plus he really is "spamming" with that  pic

The Left also predicted after his first election
that Republicans would lose power in all branches
for the next 40 years

They were only off by 38 years


the failure of leftist polices, should be enough....
the fact of the matter, once the majority goes to the taker
side, it is bound to fail 

After all, somebody has to pay for the failures of the left
we can't all be leftist and/or their dependent subordinates

Somebody has to pay the bills
Indeed, in Papa Obama's world - work two jobs
so someone else does not have to work


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## Cammmpbell (Nov 18, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Its funny cause only people I see telling everyone that the Brass at Hostess was making absurd money is the progressive hit sites....Even more curious is that they dont tell us where they get this info just that it is there.  I think again the useful idiots on this board IE liberals are being played for suckers. Do we even know if the executive staff took a salary reduction? There is no evidence to support the progressives



We've been played for suckers all right....ever since Reagan but you know what................that shit is over, finished, Kaput....your greedy party is finished. You know the good part...they don't even realize it.


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

Jon Stryker Top Donor To Obama To Lay Off Workers Ahead of Papa Obama Care Medical Device Tax



The chickens are coming home to roost


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## thanatos144 (Nov 18, 2012)

Cammmpbell said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Its funny cause only people I see telling everyone that the Brass at Hostess was making absurd money is the progressive hit sites....Even more curious is that they dont tell us where they get this info just that it is there.  I think again the useful idiots on this board IE liberals are being played for suckers. Do we even know if the executive staff took a salary reduction? There is no evidence to support the progressives
> ...



You dont know shit about what happen during Reagan ... to busy being  jealous of people who are success.....


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Cammmpbell said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



It is sad. 
how extreme and far left the Democrats have gone
in almost 50 years 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8TjbbpVLh4]Forward- The Obama Way - YouTube[/ame]


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## editec (Nov 18, 2012)

Cracks me up watching the righties here completely ignore the fact that TWINKIES just cannot cut it on a level playing field in the free market.


So they blame Obama for what is obviously the mismanagement.

MORONS,Twinkie is not the ONLY company that has to deal with the cost of HC.

But it is the only bakery company that is blaming that HC program for why they can not compete.

Losers.


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

Nice theory
too bad it is wrong

We are far from being a true free market
Indeed, one only needs to look at the thousands being
laid off or reduced to part time because of Papa ObamaCare
- free market- too funny 

Papa Obama and the Union leadership did a disservice
to union members by making them feel "empowered"
so they would vote for Papa Obama


----------



## SniperFire (Nov 18, 2012)

editec said:


> *Cracks me up watching the righties here completely ignore the fact that TWINKIES just cannot cut it on a level playing field in the free market.*
> 
> 
> So they blame Obama for what is obviously the mismanagement.
> ...




I am sure the new non-union owners of the brand name will kick ass with it. 

Perhaps Little Debbies will gobble it up.


----------



## skookerasbil (Nov 18, 2012)

Fuck those unions asshole pricks.....laughed my ass off when I heard they are out of a job.


dicks


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

skookerasbil said:


> Fuck those unions asshole pricks.....laughed my ass off when I heard they are out of a job.
> 
> 
> dicks




Lean forward they did

They just did not know they were going to get the Twinkie


----------



## skookerasbil (Nov 18, 2012)

editec said:


> Cracks me up watching the righties here completely ignore the fact that TWINKIES just cannot cut it on a level playing field in the free market.
> 
> 
> So they blame Obama for what is obviously the mismanagement.
> ...






post makes no sense s0n.

Righties are sentimental about the demise of the Twinkie but are laughing their asses off that the union got fuckiing pwned. Twinkies cant compete.....close the shit down. Thats how it works.


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 18, 2012)

If you sugar junkies hurry you can still find some very good bargains on Halloween candy at the local grocery stores.  I saw some 50% off candy yesterday at the Albertsons.  That should help take the sting out of losing your access to Twinkies.


----------



## mikegriffith1 (Nov 18, 2012)

Even a couple labor leaders have criticized the bakers' union's handling of the matter.  

Once again a corrupt union manages to get its members laid off by refusing to accept a reasonable contract offer.


----------



## editec (Nov 18, 2012)

These Losers cannot compete in a level playing field of capitalism so they blame OBAMA.

My goodness these losers are a sad lot, aren't they?


----------



## skookerasbil (Nov 18, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> If you sugar junkies hurry you can still find some very good bargains on Halloween candy at the local grocery stores.  I saw some 50% off candy yesterday at the Albertsons.  That should help take the sting out of losing your access to Twinkies.




s0n......still got your own mug in the avatar.

Whats up with that?


----------



## editec (Nov 18, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > *Cracks me up watching the righties here completely ignore the fact that TWINKIES just cannot cut it on a level playing field in the free market.*
> ...


 
And Lil Debbies will ALSO be paying the HC costs that the TWINKIE folks claim are *the reason* they must shut down.


Run along losers, *real capitalists* will pick up that market share.


----------



## skookerasbil (Nov 18, 2012)

any time these greedy unions take it in the pooper its hysterical.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

editec said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...



Which is the point

Papa Obama has no real growth policies 
and his anti-growth policies were all 
back loaded into his 2nd term

The chickens are coming home to roost


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 18, 2012)

skookerasbil said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > If you sugar junkies hurry you can still find some very good bargains on Halloween candy at the local grocery stores.  I saw some 50% off candy yesterday at the Albertsons.  That should help take the sting out of losing your access to Twinkies.
> ...



I lost no bets...what's your point?


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

editec said:


> These Losers cannot compete in a level playing field of capitalism so they blame OBAMA.
> 
> My goodness these losers are a sad lot, aren't they?



You mean crony capitalism 

too bad when Papa Obama picks the companies
they are losers


----------



## skookerasbil (Nov 18, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...




idk....just seems sorta gay to me. I mean, who puts their own mug into an avatar space?


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 18, 2012)

skookerasbil said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > skookerasbil said:
> ...



If I was wearing a pink feather boa I could see your source of concern.  I am not.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

skookerasbil said:


> any time these greedy unions take it in the pooper its hysterical.




No doubt all the union members can sleep better at night
knowing that...

Bakers Union President Frank Hurt, still has a job


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody ever screeches about union bosses making too much money.
> ...


And every dime these guys got came directly out of the rank-and-file's pocket.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

editec said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...



Ed, Hostess cited rising HC costs AND labor costs in its decision to close.

But you just make sure you don't blame the union for its part.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

Republican bizarro think

Let the auto companies fail....but save my twinkies


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...



The unions don't set prices for products or control distribution.  If a product is not desired any more it is almost always because of a poor advertising campaign or a better more desireable product is on the market.  Some businesses just simply fail because the public has less interest or need for it.  You cannot expect the unions or any workers to accept less money because a product cannot or will not be maketed as successfully as it once was.  People are wising up to nutrition.  Twinkies and Hostess failed because they and their other products are crap.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...


Do you really believe that the cost of labor is not part of the price of a product?


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



What does that have to do with Hostess failing?  Hostess is free to make their crap food products in China.  I doubt that "price" is the most important factor in why Hostess products are not selling as well as they were in the past.  If we follow your logic then the bakers and other employees should get lower and lower pay until they are working for free to keep Twinkies on the shelf.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...



During the last Hostess bankruptcy the unions accepted major givebacks. That year the CEO tripled his own salary as well as that of other major executives

Does anyone wonder why the unions were not offering further givebacks during this bankruptcy?

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/20...er-the-blame-for-hostesss-downfall/?mobile=wt


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.
Certainly, the company agreed to an out-sized pension debt, but the decision to pay executives more while scorning employee contracts during a bankruptcy reflects a lack of good managerial judgement.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Nov 18, 2012)

This should forever be known as the Twinkie Model....where 1 greedy union gets their jobs, another union's jobs and non-union jobs all destroyed in one move.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> This should forever be known as the Twinkie Model....where 1 greedy union gets their jobs, another union's jobs and non-union jobs all destroyed in one move.



If management wanted unions to accept further wage cuts......why did the CEO triple his own salary?


----------



## Mr Natural (Nov 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > This should forever be known as the Twinkie Model....where 1 greedy union gets their jobs, another union's jobs and non-union jobs all destroyed in one move.
> ...



Because he could?


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


^^^  Leftist logic.


----------



## GoneBezerk (Nov 18, 2012)

Dumbfuck....things change. Just because you bought a car in January doesn't mean your life doesn't change in June to where the car is too expensive now. 

The greedy union didn't want to take a 4% cut in wages with goodies like part ownership of the company and 2 seats on the BOG.

In an economy where people want jobs, the union showed they are greedy like you. 



rightwinger said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > This should forever be known as the Twinkie Model....where 1 greedy union gets their jobs, another union's jobs and non-union jobs all destroyed in one move.
> ...


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



I need to check with all of my Marxist comrades to see if your response makes any sense whatsoever.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

Mr Clean said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > GoneBezerk said:
> ...



Hostess was facing a change in image with it's customer base. Doesn't mean they could no longer sell Twinkies, just that they needed to seriously remarket their product. That is a management responsibility, not labor

The CEO and top managers knew they were about to liquidate. That is why they jacked up their own salaries and tried to get a dirt low union contract

And the fucking conservatives blame the unions


----------



## bitterlyclingin (Nov 18, 2012)

"We don't need no stinkin' jobs! We got Obama to rely on!"
Obamanomics in action. Yet Trumka has the cojones to say, with a straight face yet, that it was Mitt Romney style capitalism that killed the Twinkie. If you can't sell your product at a price sufficient to pay for your materials, supplies, labor, capital, and the rest of your overhead, you go out of business, find another job or line of work or stand by a highway exit with your tin cup and sign saying "Will work for food". However, since the advent of the "Age Of Obama" the government will, in exchange for your agreement to cast your vote perpetually for his person or his policies, shake down, extort, and steal from the rest of the population the funds to keep your business running. Any infidelities on your part will lead to the abrupt end of Obama's largesse. 

Bakers&#8217; Union Boss: We Knew Hostess Would Die If We Went On Strike&#8230; | Weasel Zippers


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Dumbfuck....things change. Just because you bought a car in January doesn't mean your life doesn't change in June to where the car is too expensive now.
> 
> The greedy union didn't want to take a 4% cut in wages with goodies like part ownership of the company and 2 seats on the BOG.
> 
> ...



How does management have the gall to triple their own salaries and then ask for major cuts from the union?

Which world do you live in?


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

_.But while headlines have been quick to blame unions for the downfall of the company there&#8217;s actually more to the story: While the company was filing for bankruptcy, for the second time, earlier this year, it actually tripled its CEO&#8217;s pay, and increased other executives&#8217; compensation by as much as 80 percent.
At the time, creditors warned that the decision signaled an attempt to &#8220;sidestep&#8221; bankruptcy rules, potentially as a means for trying to keep the executive at a failing company. The Confectionery, Tobacco Workers & Grain Millers International Union pointed this out in their written reaction to the news that the business is closing:
_

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/20...er-the-blame-for-hostesss-downfall/?mobile=wt


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


Oh, you mean like yours didn't?

You'll have to show where I've EVER advocated people working for free.  Good luck with that.


----------



## bodecea (Nov 18, 2012)

bitterlyclingin said:


> [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
> Richard Trumka says he's going to send his union goons door to door to convince American businessmen to see the light regarding Obamanomics.]
> 
> "Back in September, following acceptance by the Teamsters. the bakers union (BCTGM) at bankrupt Hostess brandsmakers of the iconic Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder brand breadsrejected a company proposal to help keep the company in business. By a voice vote of its members, the union opened the door to conduct a company-killing strike and potentially putting 18,500 Hostess workers onto the streets.
> ...



Leave it to the Right to mourn the Twinkie.


----------



## Dick Tuck (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Are you too big a moron to not understand that the cost of management, who is clueless, isn't a cost of doing business?  You're a twinkie.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

bitterlyclingin said:


> "We don't need no stinkin' jobs! We got Obama to rely on!"
> Obamanomics in action. Yet Trumka has the cojones to say, with a straight face yet, that it was Mitt Romney style capitalism that killed the Twinkie. If you can't sell your product at a price sufficient to pay for your materials, supplies, labor, capital, and the rest of your overhead, you go out of business, find another job or line of work or stand by a highway exit with your tin cup and sign saying "Will work for food". However, since the advent of the "Age Of Obama" the government will, in exchange for your agreement to cast your vote perpetually for his person or his policies, shake down, extort, and steal from the rest of the population the funds to keep your business running. Any infidelities on your part will lead to the abrupt end of Obama's largesse.
> 
> Bakers Union Boss: We Knew Hostess Would Die If We Went On Strike | Weasel Zippers



When a highly respected financial consultant, hired by Hostess, determined earlier this year that the companys business plan to exit bankruptcy was guaranteed to fail because it left the company with unsustainable debt levels, our members knew that the massive wage and benefit concessions the company was demanding would go straight to Wall Street investors and not back into the company."

Bakers union finally comments on Hostess demise - Dallas Business Journal

The union knew they would kill the company.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

bodecea said:


> bitterlyclingin said:
> 
> 
> > [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
> ...



No, we're mourning the 18,000 jobs lost to union greed.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...


Management and labor are both costs of doing business.  Any normal person knows this.

Leftists have trouble with the concept.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> bitterlyclingin said:
> 
> 
> > "We don't need no stinkin' jobs! We got Obama to rely on!"
> ...



So did management

They did nothing to try to save their own company. They were preparing for liquidation


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > bitterlyclingin said:
> ...


Funny how all the other unions involved accepted their offers, isn't it?

The bakers' union knew the company would fold if they went on strike.

They went on strike, ending not only their own jobs, but the jobs of thousands of other employees.

And you see no problem with this.


----------



## Dick Tuck (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> bitterlyclingin said:
> 
> 
> > "We don't need no stinkin' jobs! We got Obama to rely on!"
> ...



What a twinkie you are.  Management more than doubled their wage, and threatened the people, who put the rubber on the road, with an 8% wage cut.  I guess your politics think this is a good deal.  So what did the 3X salary CEO come up with?  Any new products, or improved products, coming out of Hostess?

You're still a twinkie.


----------



## Trigg (Nov 18, 2012)

occupied said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> > America is finished unless we can beat the fucking unions.
> ...



You want to know the problem with company pensions these days???? They are unsustainable. People used to die younger so they were taking a pension for what maybe 10 yrs. Now people retire at 65 and live until they're 90.

People at these union shops need to realize that they are gong to have to do what the rest of us do. INVEST for yourself in a 401K and save money.  

As far as SS if the gov. would keep their hands out of it....it MINGHT be there when I retire. I doubt it. So I save as much money on my own as I can. I do not want to be one of those people dependent on the whim of the gov. when I get older.


----------



## Cammmpbell (Nov 18, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Cammmpbell said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...



I voted for Eisenhower, Goldwater, Nixon three times...even voted for Reagan once. That was back when the party stood for balanced budgets, small government and individual rights. Now they are in the pockets of corporations and the wealthy. I wouldn't vote for another one of the greedy son-of-a-bitches at a national level if there wasn't anybody else to choose.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > bitterlyclingin said:
> ...


Mindless buffoonery is mindless.


----------



## Katzndogz (Nov 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> GoneBezerk said:
> 
> 
> > This should forever be known as the Twinkie Model....where 1 greedy union gets their jobs, another union's jobs and non-union jobs all destroyed in one move.
> ...



The salaries for execs were tripled, knowing that the company was going out of business and those salaries would never be paid.   Yes, it makes perfect sense.

This is another example, like San Bernardino is an example, of out of control unions.   Hostess went bankrupt as a result of union greed as it should.  Now the union members can preen in the unemployment line and brag about how easy it was to end their own jobs.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > bitterlyclingin said:
> ...



Management failed Hostess.  The union accepted pay and benefit cuts during the last Hostess bankruptcy. Hostess still failed. 

So what does management do?  They triple CEO salary and then come back and ask for additional pay and benefit cuts. 

If you worked for Hostess, what would you do?  Accept another pay cut while management jacks up their own salary or just say...enough is enough?


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Cammmpbell said:


> Now they are in the pockets of corporations and the wealthy.



The Billion-Dollar Buy: Democratic mega-donors - POLITICO.com

The Ten Companies Making The Biggest Political Donations - 24/7 Wall St.

Looks like the Dems are in the pockets of corporations and the wealthy.

But that's different.  Somehow.  It just is.

Right?


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > GoneBezerk said:
> ...



When caught in a lie....retell the lie


----------



## Dick Tuck (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Suck the ass you choose, twinkie.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...


Collecting unemployment is a far larger pay cut.


----------



## bodecea (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> > bitterlyclingin said:
> ...



No you're not.   You are mourning the Twinkie...that's why all the threads, all the posts, all the pics are about the Twinkie.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...



Looking at reality is not sucking ass, buffoon.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

bodecea said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > bodecea said:
> ...


What a stupid woman you are.


----------



## Dick Tuck (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...



So the middle class workers should have sucked ass, while the CEO tripled their salary, and accepted an 8% pay cut.  You're a twinkie.


----------



## Dick Tuck (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Looking at reality is to understand that a scumbag vulture capitalist gives himself a 3X salary increase, while asking the people who actually put the rubber on the road to take an 8% salary cut.  You're a twinkie.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Collecting unemployment is a far larger pay cut.  

Leftist SUCK at math.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...


And now the union has a 100% pay cut.

Striking workers cannot collect unemployment.

Now, retard, which is worse:  An 8% pay cut, or a 100% pay cut?


----------



## Dick Tuck (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



The math isn't that hard, twinkie.  The CEO didn't try to update the company, or introduce new product, and tripled his salary.  He tripled his salary, and told the people putting the rubber on the road to take an 8% salary cut.  

You're a fucking idiot.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> [
> 
> Sure it does
> read a real book on economics



Uh, guy, since the Republicans can't have a presidency without a recession breaking out on their watch, they really don't get to lecture the rest of us on Economics.  

My parents used to say, "Democrats bring us wars, Republicans bring us Recessions" 

Now they bring us both.


----------



## Dick Tuck (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



What's the CEO's salary, twinkie?


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...


And some of the workers decided to give themselves a 100% pay cut, and the other workers who wanted to keep working a pay cut.  At least those who didn't vote to strike will collect unemployment.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...


Nothing, now.  Just like the strikers.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...



I think we need to re-emphasize the highlighted part.  Hostess is selling the same unhealthy shit they sold when I was a kid back in the 1970's.  Except that attitudes have changed towards marketting that kind of stuff, especially to children.  But Hostess kept going on like nothing had changed, and the folks in the hedge funds just saw, "How do we loot this dying giant for the last dime."


----------



## bodecea (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



They are going the way of Kodak and Xerox.   They have to stay fresh in their product line.   But typically, they and their supporters want to blame others for their failure to keep up in the market place.


----------



## Luissa (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Um actually they can, especially in cases like this.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

Can any of you union bashers explain why a CEO would triple his own salary while demanding worker cutbacks?

If he was serious....shouldn't he take ZERO salary until the company is out of bankruptcy?


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 18, 2012)

skookerasbil said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Cracks me up watching the righties here completely ignore the fact that TWINKIES just cannot cut it on a level playing field in the free market.
> ...



Eddie specializes in making no sense.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Luissa said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...


Immaterial, really.  Unemployment benefits will be far less than the 8% cut.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Can any of you union bashers explain why a CEO would triple his own salary while demanding worker cutbacks?
> 
> If he was serious....shouldn't he take ZERO salary until the company is out of bankruptcy?


I'm certainly willing to admit that both sides, management and labor, share responsibility.

Are you?


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



How much of a pay cut did he CEO and Hostess management take?

My guess is that they got a much more generous separation package than the workers did


----------



## Dick Tuck (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



And the CEO, who decided to give himself a 300% pay increase, while asking his workers to cut their pay by 8%, is also out of work.  I guess you have no pride or honor, twinkie.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



To be fair, there is a lot of work involved in shutting down
a company that a union has ruined. Besides, even if they worked for no salary,
it would still not be enough to save the company. No doubt this is another false notion
of the Left, like taxes on the rich will solve our debt problem when we have a spending problem.
The left is so bad with math

As for sales, the research group Mintel noted that in 2011 their sales of Twinkies slipped 0.8 percent, Ding Dongs fell 8.7 percent and Ho Ho's tumbled 6.3 percent.

Of course their competitors with better prices, such as the non-unionized McKee Foods (Little Debbie) did pick up their sales by 1.8 percent in the same period. 

The high unemployment under Papa Obama combined with the left's regulatory policies that shrink real growth in the economy and lower purchasing power of money,  
forced people to pick the more price competitive products.

No doubt, the union workers that will lose their jobs, can still be happy that they voted
for Papa Obama and the Union President will still keep his job.
So sad, if only Papa Obama could have got more food stamps out there in time


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Luissa said:
> ...


Tissue?

The unalterable fact remains:  The unions were told the company would close if they struck.

Most unions took the offer.  One union chose to strike, knowing it would cost them and everyone else their jobs.

But, hey -- they stuck it to The Man.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



True....

While Hostess could have kept it's flagship Twinkie, they should have rebranded itself as a seller of healthy snacks that mothers and schools would have accepted

When I was a kid in the 60s, Wonder Bread was sold as a bread that concerned mothers would pay extra for. It became a symbol for Americas unhealthy diet. Wonder Bread should have kept up with the times

I blame management


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...


Which is better:  an 8% cut, or unemployment benefits?

Answer the question.

Me, I'd rather work than collect unemployment.  My pride is responsible for that.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



The union workers already accepted a major pay cut in the previous bankruptcy. Management went right back into bankruptcy and asked for further cuts.

How low a salary is a worker supposed to accept to sustain a failing business?

minimum wage?


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Depends.  Does he want to keep working or not?


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...



OK, the lies need to stop: the guy who gave himself a huge pay increase is *gone*.  His REPLACEMENT cut executive pay (and I think his own to $1).

Are you going through some sort of withdrawal, kid?  You seem obsessed with Twinkies.  I suggest professional help.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

Jarlaxle said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Oh yes....the old....we have found Jesus

Pay no attention to our past management mistakes. We will do it right this time. we promise


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

Jarlaxle said:


> Dick Tuck said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Well to be fair
the press is reporting about medicine shortages and
he might be low on his neuroleptic drugs.


----------



## bodecea (Nov 18, 2012)

daveman said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



There you go.    No pride. Just beg.


----------



## Clementine (Nov 18, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> ...



I'd still rather give my kids a Twinkie than pack them into a Smart car and take them for a drive.    At least Twinkies would kill you slowly and only if you kept eating them.   

A lot of things are bad for you, but if they are legal and keep people working, all the better.    If people can't practice moderation, they are doomed anyway.


----------



## boedicca (Nov 18, 2012)

Considering the shelf life of a Twinkie, one could argue that it is a life preservative instead of a silent killer.

Formaldehyde for everyone...not just Nancy Pelosi!


----------



## Cammmpbell (Nov 18, 2012)

Dick Tuck said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...



Shucks...that's mild compared to what the average CEO has done to the working man in the recent past...and this happened before Bush reduced their tax rates twice...2001 and 2003.


----------



## boedicca (Nov 18, 2012)

That chart is highly misleading.  It stops at 1999 (the top of the dotcom/telecom/Y2K bubble).  It includes only the CEOs in the top 800 companies.   The reality is that most CEOs work in small and medium businesses with far lower compensation than what your Pea Green Sunglasses allow you to perceive.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

The same tax rates that Papa Obama kept in place
Rates, by the way that were lowered for all groups
by Bush


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

boedicca said:


> That chart is highly misleading.  It stops at 1999 (the top of the dotcom/telecom/Y2K bubble).  It includes only the CEOs in the top 800 companies.   The reality is that most CEOs work in small and medium businesses with far lower compensation than what your Pea Green Sunglasses allow you to perceive.



He is another liberal "chart" tool who spams with the same crap over and over
and doesn't know what he is looking at....
This one comes from the  European Tribune

Pushing class and race envy is all the left does


----------



## boedicca (Nov 18, 2012)

Indeed.  People who spend so much energy being jealous of others who are better of than themselves wish to drag everyone down to the same level...of beggars.

Cuz they're easier to please...and control.


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > Dick Tuck said:
> ...


Funny -- that's what Democrats say whenever they suggest historically-failed ideas.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

boedicca said:


> Indeed.  People who spend so much energy being jealous of others who are better of than themselves wish to drag everyone down to the same level...of beggars.
> 
> Cuz they're easier to please...and control.



I hear you

Plus, their "theory" is flawed as their approach on taxes
In 2011 budget terms
Take every penny from families making over $250,000 a year 
This is Papa Obama's and the Left definition of rich now

...and that pays for another 141 days of our government budget 

The US has a spending problem not a taxing problem
Giving it more money is like giving a crack addict one more fix


----------



## boedicca (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed.  People who spend so much energy being jealous of others who are better of than themselves wish to drag everyone down to the same level...of beggars.
> ...




I link to myself.  Ahem:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/159746-feed-your-family-on-10-billion-a-day.html

Iowahawk is brilliant.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

He sure is,,,,

You can almost hear the left saying,,,

"but, but, but..."


----------



## daveman (Nov 18, 2012)

bodecea said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Anyone who advocates the nanny state has no business criticizing others about pride.  

And by voting Democrat, you advocate the nanny state.


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

boedicca said:


> Indeed.  People who spend so much energy being jealous of others who are better of than themselves wish to drag everyone down to the same level...of beggars.
> 
> Cuz they're easier to please...and control.



So nobody is allowed to question the compensation of those who are "better than us"?


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

boedicca said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...




The tool has now expanded his spam with a graph from EPI....


 the left saying,,,

"but, but, but..."


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed.  People who spend so much energy being jealous of others who are better of than themselves wish to drag everyone down to the same level...of beggars.
> ...



Sure
as most normal people do, in a healthy way 
How do I get there?
How do I get that successful 
etc

Not the Left's unhealthy and divisive 
to divide people for cheap political gain,,,,
They got theirs so I want mine


Man up and take responsibly for your own life


----------



## Cammmpbell (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > Neotrotsky said:
> ...



I love it!  If the blind assed Republicans don't get the message they are toast:

..........*Obama*.............*Romulus*
............*332*...................*206*


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

Republican house, again 
to slow up or stop the left's radical agenda

Really, the US voter could have kicked them out


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > boedicca said:
> ...



Do you really think that is what Americans want? To be CEOs?

Americans want to be able to earn a salary in which they can support a family, maybe afford a home, take care of their loved ones when they are sick, hopefully someday retire

When it becomes increasingly difficult to do so, and management tells you that you have to make due with less, it is only natural to question why I have to make more sacrifices while the CEO is tripling his own pay.

That is not class warfare, it is a reasonable question


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Neotrotsky said:
> ...



And yet, if our government protected it's workers and sent the illegals home and limited immigration, that would all sort itself out without unions.  Americans average birthrate is less than replacement value while immigrants legal and illegal, 1st and 2nd generation, have an average of 7 and 1/2 kids per family.


Remember in the 70's when we were taught about over population, limited resources and how we should all limit our families to no more than 2 children?  We've been rewarded with more immigration than ever before in history.  Taking our jobs and keeping our wages artificially low all while using up our limited resources we were trying to protect by limiting our number of children.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 18, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.
> Certainly, the company agreed to an out-sized pension debt, but the decision to pay executives more while scorning employee contracts during a bankruptcy reflects a lack of good managerial judgement.



It's just another example of how little the 1% care about the rest of us.  They just wanted to get as much money out of the company as quickly as they could before it went broke.  They looted that company and that's what they do.  It certainly not conducive to a good economy.


----------



## MikeK (Nov 18, 2012)

Clementine said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...


America doesn't have a drug problem -- it has a *calorie problem* which is responsible for infinitely more illness and death per annum than all recreational drugs consumed in any ten year period.  And some of the most common and significantly active contributing elements to this problem are products popularly distributed by the _Hostess_ Corporation.   

While those individuals whose metabolisms are able to process the effects of the calorie bombardment available from an occasional _Twinkie,_ many are not.  So it stands to reason that recent public nutrition information programs would impact _Hostess'_ Bottom line, prompting its executive board members to grab what they can,  abandon the sinking ship, and blame it on the unions.  

So let's not blame the Bakers Union for what appears on the surface to be precipitous action until we hear from both sides and learn all the facts. These union leaders are neither stupid nor suicidal.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 18, 2012)

GoneBezerk said:


> Dumbfuck....things change. Just because you bought a car in January doesn't mean your life doesn't change in June to where the car is too expensive now.
> 
> The greedy union didn't want to take a 4% cut in wages with goodies like part ownership of the company and 2 seats on the BOG.
> 
> ...



What good does part ownership of a bankrupt company do anybody?


----------



## Staidhup (Nov 18, 2012)

Something to be learned here, if a company's earnings fail to exceed depreciation expense and pension liabilities it will go bankrupt. The union was well aware that the company was stretched to the limit and didn't give a fuck about their workers. As for the union workers, I guess it's a fact, shoot oneself in the foot and it will hurt, but no fear the government will take care of you.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 18, 2012)

Staidhup said:


> Something to be learned here, if a company's earnings fail to exceed depreciation expense and pension liabilities it will go bankrupt. The union was well aware that the company was stretched to the limit and didn't give a fuck about their workers. As for the union workers, I guess it's a fact, shoot oneself in the foot and it will hurt, but no fear the government will take care of you.



Giving their CEO a 300% pay increase while they were in trouble certainly helped the situation, didn't it?  

Only in America can a guy running a failing company get rewarded for destroying the company.


----------



## thanatos144 (Nov 18, 2012)

Unions are parasites that live off the sweat of others without giving anything in return like progressives do.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Unions are parasites that live off the sweat of others without giving anything in return like progressives do.



Capitalists are parasites that live off the sweat of others without giving anything in return like progressives do


Fixed it for you.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> > Something to be learned here, if a company's earnings fail to exceed depreciation expense and pension liabilities it will go bankrupt. The union was well aware that the company was stretched to the limit and didn't give a fuck about their workers. As for the union workers, I guess it's a fact, shoot oneself in the foot and it will hurt, but no fear the government will take care of you.
> ...



Just like Papa Obama
expect in this case, the whole country 

Forward


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Unions are parasites that live off the sweat of others without giving anything in return like progressives do.



unemployment is lower in 'right-to-work' states


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Unions are parasites that live off the sweat of others without giving anything in return like progressives do.
> ...



Except they are shit wages and everyone has to work two jobs and go on food stamps to put food on the table. 

But, yeah, that's an improvement.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

Really,
RTW states do have slightly lower average wages than non&#8211; RTW states, but they are located primarily in the South, which is less developed than the North and still has a lower cost of living. 

Research controlling for this shows RTW states have, if anything, slightly higher wages
and little impact on wages (Robert Reed, &#8220;How Right-To-Work Laws Affect Wages,&#8221


Besides, 
They save on dues


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> Really,
> RTW states do have slightly lower average wages than non RTW states, but they are located primarily in the South, which is less developed than the North and still has a lower cost of living.
> 
> Research controlling for this shows rRTW states have, if anything, slightly higher wages
> ...



I've been to the south... frankly, it hasn't improved much since "Deliverence" was made.


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 18, 2012)

Perhaps
but you are still wrong


----------



## MikeK (Nov 18, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> > Something to be learned here, if a company's earnings fail to exceed depreciation expense and pension liabilities it will go bankrupt. The union was well aware that the company was stretched to the limit and didn't give a fuck about their workers. As for the union workers, I guess it's a fact, shoot oneself in the foot and it will hurt, but no fear the government will take care of you.
> ...


It's possible only as a consequence of de-regulation.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> Perhaps
> but you are still wrong



Not really.  If the south wants to be a speed bump while big corporations race to the bottom, that's really kind of theirproblem.  

Because if Cleetus and Goober working for $10.00 is good, then Pedro and Juan working for $1.00 is better, and hey, we can alway go down to Wang and Chung working for .10.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 18, 2012)




----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

WillowTree said:


>



If you are referring to the hedge funds that put the company some 500 million in debt while paying themselves 7 figure salaries, you'd be right on the money.  

Probably you think it's the guy actually baking the cupcakes actually expecting a working wage, though.  Those bastards.  

This, folks, is exactly why the republicans are losing elections.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



and 18 thousand Americans lost their jobs.. good job unions of the world.


----------



## percysunshine (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



Of course, JoeB owns Hostess stock certificates....right....Joe?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



I wouldn't invest in that crap.  

Let's review, shall we.  

Hostess declares bankruptcy in 2004.  They get a bunch of concessions from the unions, but still end up closing a bunch of plants.  They lose market share. 

Now a SMART company would invest in new equipment, new products, etc.  

Hostess didn't do that. It sold out to a hedge fund that demanded greater revenues to pay off their loan.  

And when they came back and asked the unions, "Hey, make more concessions because we messed it uplast time you bailed us out,", they said no.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 18, 2012)

18,000 unemployed Americans damn good job unions all hail to the unions.


----------



## percysunshine (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



So you do not own any Hostess stock. You don't work there,  No skin in the game.

JoeBarfly.


----------



## freedombecki (Nov 18, 2012)

Votto said:


> The company cited increased wages, pensions, and cost of medical care for it's employees as the reason for going belly up.  This is pure right winged propoganda I tell ya!!  Everyone knows that Obamacare is affordable and good for the nation.  In addition, the CEO's are greedy and only are in it for the money, not their exploited employees who are in it for the love of twinkie.
> 
> If I were Obama, I would buy the company up and save those 18,000 jobs.  It's the American way and the right thing to do for the workers of America.
> 
> Workers unite!!!


*If I were Obama, I would buy the company up and save those 18,000 jobs*.

Obama has to work with a Congress he has already said he will not make any bargains with on other matters.

His idea of getting things done is barking excessively expensive orders and continue overspending.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> So you do not own any Hostess stock. You don't work there,  No skin in the game.
> 
> JoeBarfly.



Other than being a working guy who doesn't like seeing other working guys get screwed by rich douchebags, nope.  

Oh, Plutocracy lot on Nov. 6.  Learn to deal.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 18, 2012)




----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> 18,000 unemployed Americans damn good job unions all hail to the unions.



The company was in serious trouble before the union chose to strike. 

Why do you ignore every bad decision made by management up to that point?


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > 18,000 unemployed Americans damn good job unions all hail to the unions.
> ...


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

Oh, so you don't really have an intelligent answer to that one.  Okay. We get it.


----------



## Samson (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> > 18,000 unemployed Americans damn good job unions all hail to the unions.
> ...



So, if a company is in serious trouble, then that's when a union chooses to strike.








Am I the only one that sees anything suspciously stupid about this strategy....


----------



## percysunshine (Nov 18, 2012)

Samson said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Even the Teamsters are not that stupid.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 18, 2012)

Samson said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Because they were being asked to make unreasonable concessions.  

It wasn't like they were asking for higher pay.  They were asking their pay not be cut. 

And the management already proved it couldn't be trusted to make good decisions even if they made concessions.


----------



## percysunshine (Nov 18, 2012)

The Teamsters have more people than the Bakers, but the Bakers have ovens.

It will probably be an even match.


----------



## Unkotare (Nov 18, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > So you do not own any Hostess stock. You don't work there,  No skin in the game.
> ...




He wants to play 'workers of the world unite!' online, but he lacks the courage of his convictions (or anything else).

He's a faceless nobody, and he seems to think that if he makes an irrational peep here he might actually convince himself that he exists.


----------



## MikeK (Nov 19, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> Really,
> RTW states do have slightly lower average wages than non RTW states, but they are located primarily in the South, which is less developed than the North and still has a lower cost of living.
> 
> Research controlling for this shows RTW states have, if anything, slightly higher wages
> ...


The only reason employers in Right-To-Work states maintain a living wage standard is they know what will happen if they don't.  But if you choose to believe they do it because of an innate sense of fairness and benevolence, I will leave you in that state of happy delusion.


----------



## Mr. H. (Nov 19, 2012)




----------



## Stephanie (Nov 19, 2012)

The media is the one cranking out the misinformation..

what is it their business why hostess went out of business?

yet Cbs runs this article by a Union BOSS blaming it on Bain, Republicans, vultures and blaa blaa

Why didn't Union Boss TRUMPA start his own company and put all these workers to work? No they expect Other BUSINESSES to do all those thing FOR THEM..

Cbs is horrible for this propaganda, and you people talk about Fox news


----------



## Ravi (Nov 19, 2012)

Corporations that blame their employees for the corporation's inability to sustain a business plan are ridiculous.

That republicans eat that shit up is a shame.


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 19, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Corporations that blame their employees for the corporation's inability to sustain a business plan are ridiculous.
> 
> That republicans eat that shit up is a shame.



they didn't blame it on their employees, they blamed it on the UNIONS.
It's not their fault their employees followed the bad advice of Union bosses, now they can PAY FOR it in UNempoyment line instead
And I don't what Republicans have anything to do with any of it


----------



## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 19, 2012)

kidrocks said:


> There... the truth, fair and balanced. The otherside of the story.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Uh huh...sure, give us some more bull shit stories.*


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 19, 2012)

> There... the truth, fair and balanced. The otherside of the story.



from the commie rat Trumka...make me laugh

they have to make some excuse for putting 18.000 PEOPLE out of work


----------



## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 19, 2012)

Chris said:


> A company that makes junk food goes out of business.
> 
> Good for America.



*I love junk food. It does a body good. Yum. Junk food gives me energy.*


----------



## ba1614 (Nov 19, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> The media is the one cranking out the misinformation..
> 
> what is it their business why hostess went out of business?
> 
> ...



Hell, why doesn't the union just buy the hostess brand and show everyone how it can be done?


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 19, 2012)

ba1614 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > The media is the one cranking out the misinformation..
> ...



they need all that money they take from their members to give to DEMOCRAT politicians so they can get all the favored treatment from Government..like GM, and waivers from ObamaCare from their bought and paid for President
You see where Obama just met with them and PROMISED them he would raise taxes on the people? the people in this country are too dumb to see this crap..


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 19, 2012)

HERE'S the truth...fair and balanced....THE REAL story

SNIP:
Manhandling Hostess, Big Labor Costs 18,500 Workers Their Jobs

Posted 11/16/2012 06:45 PM ET
 Politics: Union intransigence and unrealistic expectations at Hostess Brands have forced the bakery to shut its doors permanently and throw 18,500 people out of work. So much for Big Labor caring about the little guy.

A down economy and two restructurings in three years left Hostess, maker of Twinkies and Sno Balls, in dire fiscal straits. The company warned its workers, union and nonunion, to make concessions or everyone would go down in a liquidation.

Instead, one union, the AFL-CIO-affiliated Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International (BCTGM), imagined the company was bluffing and went on strike.

The decision contrasted with the majority of the workers who didn't delude themselves. The Teamsters, hardly pushovers, issued this statement:



> "Teamster Hostess members and all Hostess employees should know this is not an empty threat or a negotiating tactic, but the certain outcome if members of the BCTGM continue to strike. This is based on conversations with our financial experts, who, because the Teamsters were involved in the legal process, had access to financial information about the company."




All of it here
Read More At IBD: Big Labor's Foolish Hand On Hostess Costs 18,500 Workers Their Jobs - Investors.com


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 19, 2012)

The Bakers Union fucked everyone.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 19, 2012)

Trumka is a complete fucking anti-American scumbag


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 19, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Corporations that blame their employees for the corporation's inability to sustain a business plan are ridiculous.
> ...



The Republicans were the ones who told big corporations if they want to screw with their workers, the government would turn a blind eye. 

Wasn't always this way. Used to be, if a union called a strike for a good reason, the government usually put pressure on the company to settle.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 19, 2012)

Ravi said:


> Corporations that blame their employees for the corporation's inability to sustain a business plan are ridiculous.
> 
> That republicans eat that shit up is a shame.



Unsustainable union pay and benefits are destroying companies, cities and states -- just like they're supposed to


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 19, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > percysunshine said:
> ...



And yet your queer ass follows me around all day... hmmmm...


----------



## editec (Nov 19, 2012)

*Yup.*

*Hostess can no longer compete in the free market so its going to get sold off.*

*If a repubican were in office we'd hear nothing about this, except perhaps they might explain to us that this is a feature of the*

*CREATIVE DESTRUCTIVE NATURE OF CAPITALISM*

​


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 19, 2012)

editec said:


> *Yup.*
> 
> *Hostess can no longer compete in the free market so its going to get sold off.*
> 
> ...



Because that what happens, extraordinary returns get reduced because of free enterprise.

You still haven't figured that part out, right


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 19, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Indeed
why invest when you already know the union will make
unreasonable demands and force the company to close, anyway


----------



## Neotrotsky (Nov 19, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > Really,
> ...



Delusion, my friend
is making people think that living on public assistance and food-stamps
while waiting for the "right" job to come along - is the way to go
and that somehow a "job" is beneath them


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## ScienceRocks (Nov 19, 2012)

I think there should be a law that keeps unions from killing the corporation(the jobs). So they can only go to up until the point where it isn't profitable anymore. 

Seriously, Unions shouldn't be able to destroy jobs like this.


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## zeke (Nov 19, 2012)

Matthew said:


> I think there should be a law that keeps unions from killing the corporation(the jobs). So they can only go to up until the point where it isn't profitable anymore.
> 
> Seriously, Unions shouldn't be able to destroy jobs like this.



Seriously? You are a Twinkie. Or a Ding Dong. Or both. Seriously.


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## ba1614 (Nov 19, 2012)

editec said:


> *Yup.*
> 
> *Hostess can no longer compete in the free market so its going to get sold off.*
> 
> ...



You're right, if a Republican were in office all we would be hearing about would be job numbers and fuel prices.


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## Stephanie (Nov 19, 2012)

ba1614 said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > *Yup.*
> ...



Yep,


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## JoeB131 (Nov 19, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> [
> 
> Indeed
> why invest when you already know the union will make
> unreasonable demands and force the company to close, anyway



Fair pay is not an unreasonable demand. 

Again, simple enough solution.  A law gets passed. No executive can be paid more than 10 times what the average line worker makes.  

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.


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## HUGGY (Nov 19, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Better you than me!


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## ScienceRocks (Nov 19, 2012)

Don't be surprised when Mexico and China are kicking our ass in 10 years. Honestly, we can't kick the free market with its market forces in the face and be successful. A corporation should have the power to be profitable. Sure, you can protest for better pay but if the damn thing goes out of business. Well, you're fucking yourself.


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## bitterlyclingin (Nov 19, 2012)

[Labor celebrates its vicory over Hostess. Satire.]

"RADIO TRANSCRIPT. Joe Label has bakers' union boss Frank Hurt on the show

HOST: "Welcome back to Union Talk Radio, I'm your host Joe Label, our guest this hour is Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco and Grain Millers Union President Frank Hurt. First I want to congratulate you guys are a major victory this week, taking down Hostess all the way to liqudation! Brilliant job" 

FRANK HURT: "Thank you Joe, yes, it was a magnificient victory indeed for the workers of this country. A great victory for organized labor! A god day for America and our future." 

HOST: "What does the demise of Hostess mean to you?" 

FRANK HURT: "It means that big business and corporations cannot continue to exploit the working class without consequences. It means that we have shown that labor still has the power and should have a seat at OUR TABLE, not theirs during negotiations" 

HOST: "So, this is a warning to corporations all over America?" 

FRANK HURT: "Yes it is. We refuse to be slaves for the bottom line. We refuse to work for piddling wages while the fatcats take home millions to their mansions on golf resorts. We can no longer be treated like indentured servants" 


HOST: "First caller, on the Teamster line, we have Mac Johnson. Welcome to the show, Mac, what's on your mind?" 

CALLER: "Unemployment. I drove a truck for Hostess, we Teamsters saw the bottom line, and the company was dead broke. We took their deal, because we wanted to keep our jobs. Now we have thousands of union brothers without jobs, without any support. Your a one percenter Mr. Hurt, you make a quarter million a year off the back of union members, are you going to feed my family and pay my rent? You put us out of job and now you celebrate from your fatcat offic.........." [dial tone] 

HOST: "We seemed to have lost that call. You must have a bad cell there, Mac. I couldn't really make out what he was saying anyway." 

FRANK HURT: "No matter what anyone says, we achieved a great victory over exploitation. We have defeated "The Man" and by any measure, this was a true and impression victory for the working class" 

HOST: "We have another caller, from Orlando Florida and it's one of your boys, Frank. We have Juan Rodriguez, hola Juan!"

CALLER: "Yes, I worked at the Marita plant. We stood strong and brave against the onslaught of corporate greed. The local Union representative told us that if Hostess is forced to liquidate another company would buy it and give us our jobs at our normal pay and benefits, how long will this take?" 

FRANK HURT: "Well, obviously we cannot and did not promise that another company would reopen the plant and give you your normal pay and benefits back. That isn't even the point anyway, what you and your brothers did was to drive a stake through the heart of exploitative capitalist pigs, and you should be proud" 

CALLER: "The thing is, Mr. Hurt, I need a job. I've been striking for months, the unemployment benefits are running out, how am I supposed to feed my kids? and my wife, she's like HUGE, you know?" 

FRANK HURT: "Eggs need to be broken to make omelets, Juan, we have to keep our eyes on the big picture." 

CALLER: "Also, do I need to keep paying dues? I'm pretty broke right now, being unemployed and all..." 

FRANK HURT: "Of course, it is always important. It should be your top priority to keep paying your dues. You have to support the movement, Juan, it is more important than anything, even eating. You have to see the big picture. We are winning and soon, nobody will be exploited again because of what you and your brothers did." 

HOST: "That is touching and inspirational, Mr. Hurt. You are an awesome role model for every exploited worker in America. Now we have one last caller, Andrew McCall, welcome to the show Andrew!" 

CALLER: "Mr. Hurt, companies across America are cutting hours and jobs to avoid penalties and mandates in ObamaCare. How are we supposed to get new good paying jobs when they just don't seem to exist anymore?"

FRANK HURT: "These corporations and businesspeople have proved themselves unpatriotic and disloyal to their own workers. Where is loyalty in the workplace these days? This government must clamp down and punish these companies for doing what they do. In a perfect world we would all strike and shut them all down, only then will Americans be free of exploitation, when there are no companies left!" 

CALLER: "Then what? Sounds like we'd starve..." 

HOST: "That's all we have time for today, we'll be back tomorrow with Richard Trumpka and he will explain to us how to help Obama subdue the capitalist system! Onward Union Brothers!" "

Associated Posers: A Labor Victory Over Hostess


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## bitterlyclingin (Nov 19, 2012)

The Mexican company that bought Sarah Lee was looking at the Twinkie. The Bakers will have to emigrate to Mexico if they want their old jobs and work for the going Mexican wage.
I wouldn't put it past Obama to tell the American people to bend over a little further and be sodomized some more in order to bail out the Hostess bakers as well as telling Hostess's debtholders none of what they are owed will be repaid, the funds all going to save the Union's jobs once more a la GM and Chrysler, even though it was actually the debtholders money, because Hostess failed to make a profit, that was used to pay Hostess's workers from the time it was loaned until the liquidation.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

When are the working people of America going to wise up and just take it in the shorts?  In this country, by Conservative standards, we must coddle the rich and screw the working class.  We're in a serious race to the bottom with a global standard of living set by Asia and Latin America.  We can't get there if working class families continue to fight for decent wages and benefits.

Once the middle class has been eroded to a shadow of their former glory, Conservatives can them get about the business of making sure the wealthy get more and even more.  Then and only then will the wealthy realize their noblis oblige morality and grant the working class a few low paying, no benefit jobs.

Meanwhile, lets cut the last braces underpinning the social safety net.  We need to eliminate government regulations like OSHA and the National Labor Relations Board clearing the way for the wealthy to accumulate even more of the economic pie.  Despite the fact that the wealthy make up only 2% of the wage earners, Conservatives are happy to do their bidding and cut the legs out from under themselves and their fellow countrymen.  Why?  Who knows!  Maybe Fox and Limbaugh can 'educate' us.


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 19, 2012)

Class division is so unworthy of the Democrats
They have gone so extreme and to the left in the 40+ years

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8TjbbpVLh4]Forward- The Obama Way - YouTube[/ame]


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## KissMy (Nov 19, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.



Only a spastic retard would think we will import fresh bread from China.


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## Neotrotsky (Nov 19, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



My god
how sad you really want a gov't to do this,,,,
Simple, is the word I would use as well

The high standard of living in the US has been 
brought about by movements towards a free market
not by some dictates from some gov't bureaucratic putz

If gov't could just dictate what they want to make the perfect
society then

Cuba, former USSR would have been heaven


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## thanatos144 (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> When are the working people of America going to wise up and just take it in the shorts?  In this country, by Conservative standards, we must coddle the rich and screw the working class.  We're in a serious race to the bottom with a global standard of living set by Asia and Latin America.  We can't get there if working class families continue to fight for decent wages and benefits.
> 
> Once the middle class has been eroded to a shadow of their former glory, Conservatives can them get about the business of making sure the wealthy get more and even more.  Then and only then will the wealthy realize their noblis oblige morality and grant the working class a few low paying, no benefit jobs.
> 
> Meanwhile, lets cut the last braces underpinning the social safety net.  We need to eliminate government regulations like OSHA and the National Labor Relations Board clearing the way for the wealthy to accumulate even more of the economic pie.  Despite the fact that the wealthy make up only 2% of the wage earners, Conservatives are happy to do their bidding and cut the legs out from under themselves and their fellow countrymen.  Why?  Who knows!  Maybe Fox and Limbaugh can 'educate' us.



Take you communist idiocy and shove deeply up your ass. I have seen what communism is and I dont want it. I will keep my freedom you pathetic sheep.


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## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)

WillowTree said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...



Which would have happened anyway.  It was already in the cards, they just wanted to keep on going with slave labor for as long as they could.  Too bad the slaves revolted.


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## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)

Samson said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > WillowTree said:
> ...




So the company is in serious trouble, and after getting concessions from their workers, they give the CEO a 300% increase as well as huge raises to the rest of their top management.  Am I the only one that sees anything suspiciously stupid about this strategy?


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## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Neotrotsky said:
> ...



They had already taken serious cutbacks, while the CEO got a 300% increase and the rest of upper management got huge raises as well.  How many concessions do you think they should have made?  Do you think they should have just kept on working even if they were working for free?   I don't mind volunteering, I do, a lot, but I sure as heck wouldn't volunteer for Hostess, would you?  Why do you think the employees should?


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## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)

Matthew said:


> I think there should be a law that keeps unions from killing the corporation(the jobs). So they can only go to up until the point where it isn't profitable anymore.
> 
> Seriously, Unions shouldn't be able to destroy jobs like this.



I think there should be a law to keep inept CEOs from killing the corporation.  Seriously, CEOs and management shouldn't be able to destroy jobs like this.


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## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



I just don't think any CEO of a failing company should be getting a raise, let alone a 300% raise, especially while forcing their employees to take cutbacks.


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## HUGGY (Nov 19, 2012)

Never ate a twinkie.  They look gay.  The name looks gay.   

Who eats twinkies anyway?


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## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)

Matthew said:


> Don't be surprised when Mexico and China are kicking our ass in 10 years. Honestly, we can't kick the free market with its market forces in the face and be successful. A corporation should have the power to be profitable. Sure, you can protest for better pay but if the damn thing goes out of business. Well, you're fucking yourself.



They are already kicking our ass.  Changes in corporate laws, greed, outsourcing and insourcing have seen to that.  It's a race to the bottom, and we're winning.

Sure, ship our jobs overseas, bring in people to lower the wages here, but in the end, no one will be able to afford the products so the corporations will end up killing themselves.  Except of course, those that cater to the super wealthy. They are protected, they have increased their income while the rest of us have lost ours.

We don't have a free market, we haven't for a long time.  If we did, we would never have bailed out the banks.


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## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Neotrotsky said:
> ...




Sorry, but we USED to have a high standard of living.  We've been losing ground ever since the 70's, except of course the for the very, very wealthy, who've increased their income by nearly 300%, while the rest of us have stagnated or lost income.  This comes from changes in corporate laws.  

There is no excuse for a corporation to give their CEO a *THREE HUNDRED PERCENT* raise while their workers are forced to take even more cuts in pay and concessions.  

GREED has killed our economy.


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## FJO (Nov 19, 2012)

bucs90 said:


> Why dont they just reopen the plant to a non-union state..like South Carolina?
> 
> I think their business is hurt as much by the emerging trend of eating healthier than just the unions. Revenue is down because people have wised up to the idea that eating shitty food will kill you.



If people think that giving up food that they ENJOY to eat, obviously never heard the expression that "I would rather add life to my years than years to my life".

If eating a Twinkie (takes about 5 minutes) reduces my life by five minutes it's an even trade.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Neotrotsky said:
> ...



Then you will be pleased to know that after giving himself that raise, Brian Driscoll was fired and replaced by Gregory Rayburn who reduced the salaries of all top executives to a dollar a year.


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## KissMy (Nov 19, 2012)

Prices at the Hostess stores were far cheaper than their non-union competition. How was that possible because the media narrative is saying the opposite? Could it possibly be management's fault? Nooooooo! - The rich are job creators? 

Wait! - Who owns the media who told you it was the unions fault????

 The All-Union Hostess stores even sell wonder bread cheaper than All Anti-Union Walmart.


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## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Do you have a link?  I would like to read about that.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

The rich are job creators and the unions are job killers.  The Bakers Union killed Hostess the same way CALPERS killed San Bernardino.

What's more, the union knew exactly what it was doing because they made their demands while Hostess was in the middle of a bankruptcy knowing that it would never be able to meet the union demands.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > When are the working people of America going to wise up and just take it in the shorts?  In this country, by Conservative standards, we must coddle the rich and screw the working class.  We're in a serious race to the bottom with a global standard of living set by Asia and Latin America.  We can't get there if working class families continue to fight for decent wages and benefits.
> ...



Is that your argument?  Is that all the better you can express your opinion?  Is it because you have no argument or opinion?  Or are you too ignorant to make a cohesive argument?

Keep your freedom, but I don't believe you understand what freedom means.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The rich are job creators and the unions are job killers.  The Bakers Union killed Hostess the same way CALPERS killed San Bernardino.
> 
> What's more, the union knew exactly what it was doing because they made their demands while Hostess was in the middle of a bankruptcy knowing that it would never be able to meet the union demands.


The rich aren't job creators.  Consumer demand creates jobs.  Without consumer demand, who would open a factory or shop?  Without customers, who's going to buy what the wealthy are selling?  No rich guy ever opened up his tax bill and, after noticing he is paying 35% rather than 39% suddenly decided to create some jobs.  If, on the other hand, there was a vibrant middle class armed with disposable income, opening a factory or shop would be a winning position.


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## bitterlyclingin (Nov 19, 2012)

[Like the man describes it in the article "The Kamikaze labor Union" destroys the company it works for.
Obama set the stage for this when he bailed out the UAW with GM and Chrysler. The UAW inevitably caused their companies' failure, but they got the reward. A lot of other unions are going to take their cue from this. What's going to happen when the bulk of the voters who have no skin in the game, feel no pain from their actions, but reap their rewards determine the direction the country is headed in?. A president for life Obama and a personal wealth tax when not enough personal income is available to support the Obama pander fest?]

"The news about the bankruptcy of Hostess, maker of the Twinkie and other legendary junk foods, touched off some memories of growing up in a mid-sized Midwestern town in the 1970s and '80s. No, not that kind of memory, though come to think of it, the 1980s was the last time I actually ate a Hostess snack. What I'm recalling has a lot less nostalgic charm: the whole phenomenon of a kamikaze labor union that keeps demanding more for workers--who end up getting nothing when their employer goes belly-up.

That's pretty much what the unions did, or tried to do, to three of the big employers in our area, and it taught me some early lessons about the real nature of labor unions and of government intervention.

I grew up in an area known as the Quad Cities, a cluster of four towns in Illinois and Iowa, on opposite banks of the Mississippi River. The big local employers at the time were the Rock Island Arsenal, which made howitzers and machine guns for the US Army, the celebrated Rock Island Line, and two big manufacturers of farm equipment, John Deere and International Harvester.

What might strike you about this list is that half of these companies no longer exist. I watched them go down, and that's why the Hostess story seems so familiar.

Take the Rock Island Line, the popular name for the Chicago, Rock Island, and Pacific Railroad. The line's Wikipedia entry tells the story pretty much as I remember it, only worse.

"By the summer of 1979, the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and the United Transportation Union had accepted new agreements. The Brotherhood of Railway and Airline Clerks (BRAC) held firm to their demand that pay increases be back dated to the expiration date of the previous agreement.

"The Rock Island offered to open the books to show the precarious financial condition of the road in an effort to get the BRAC in line with the other unions that had already signed agreements. Fred J. Kroll, president of the BRAC, declined the offer to audit the books of the Rock Island. Kroll pulled his BRAC clerks off the job in August, 1979. Picket lines went up at every terminal on the Rock Island's system and the operating brotherhoods honored the picket lines. The Rock Island ground to a halt."

Here's where it gets worse. The railroad was bouncing back and showing signs that it might survive the strike--so the government intervened to shut it down and finish it off for good. Why? Because the survival of a railroad was considered less important than the survival of a union.

"The Ingram management team operated as much of the Rock Island as they could. Trains slowly began to move, with more traffic being hauled every week of the strike. President Jimmy Carter issued a back-to-work order that BRAC dismissed. Still more traffic flowed on the strikebound Rock Island. Seeing the trains rolling despite the strike and fearing a Florida East Coast strikebreaking situation, the unions appealed to the [Federal Railway Administration] and [the Interstate Commerce Commission] for relief. Despite that Rock Island management had been able to move 80% of pre-strike tonnage, at the behest of the Carter administration, the ICC declared a transportation emergency declaring that the RI would not be able to move the 1979 grain harvest to market. The ICC issued a Directed Service Order authorizing the Kansas City Terminal Railway to take over operations....

"On January 24, 1980, Judge McGarr elected not to review the Rock Island's final plan of reorganization. Instead, Judge McGarr initiated the shutdown and liquidation of the Rock Island Railroad."

Then there was International Harvester.

"In 1979, IH named a new CEO, who was determined to improve profit margins and drastically cut a ballooning cost structure. Unprofitable model lines were terminated and factory production curtailed. By the end of the year, IH profits were at their highest in 10 years, but cash reserves were still too low. Union members became increasingly irate over production cutbacks and other cost-cutting measures. In the spring and summer of 1979, IH began short-term planning for a strike that seemed inevitable. Then on November 1, IH announced figures showing that president and chairman Archie McCardell received a $1.8 million (in 1979 values) bonus. McCardell sought overtime, work rule, and other changes from the UAW, which led to a strike on November 2, 1979.

"Soon after, the economy turned unfavorable, and IH faced a financial crisis. The strike lasted approximately six months. When it ended, IH had lost almost $600 million (in 1979 value; over $2 billion today).

"By 1981 the company's finances were at their lowest point ever. The strike, accompanied by the economy and internal corporate problems, had placed IH in a hole that had only a slim way out. Things only got worse until 1984, when the bitter end came.

"International Harvester, following long negotiations, agreed to sell its agricultural products division to Tenneco, Inc. on November 26, 1984.... Following the merger, tractor production at Harvester's Rock Island, Illinois, Farmall Works ceased in May 1985."...."

RealClearMarkets - The Parasite That Kills Its Hostess


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## bitterlyclingin (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The rich are job creators and the unions are job killers.  The Bakers Union killed Hostess the same way CALPERS killed San Bernardino.
> ...


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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The rich are job creators and the unions are job killers.  The Bakers Union killed Hostess the same way CALPERS killed San Bernardino.
> ...



Without a consumer demand, an innovator will open a factory and create a consumer demand.   The rich guy opened up his tax bill and, after noticing that he was paying 35% rather than 39% realized that he had money to invest in a business that would create jobs.   If what you say is true, communist Russia and communist China and even Cuba would be the most dynamic economies on the planet.

The mistake is in thinking that you can take from one class and give to another to create a dynamic economy but you can't.   The more the government takes, and gives for nothing in return, the worse the economy gets.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

bitterlyclingin said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


How many iPads are sold in Uganda?  There's no middle class there.  No disposable income.  Only the rich and the poor.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> bitterlyclingin said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...


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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > bitterlyclingin said:
> ...


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
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## thanatos144 (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

bitterlyclingin said:


> [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
> Richard Trumka says he's going to send his union goons door to door to convince American businessmen to see the light regarding Obamanomics.]
> 
> "Back in September, following acceptance by the Teamsters. the bakers&#8217; union (BCTGM) at bankrupt Hostess brands&#8212;makers of the iconic Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder brand breads&#8212;rejected a company proposal to help keep the company in business. By a voice vote of its members, the union opened the door to conduct a company-killing strike and potentially putting 18,500 Hostess workers onto the streets.
> ...





A bunch of bull crap. Hostess was killed by the VULTURE CAPITALISTS who bought it for the expressed purpose of sucking as much cash out of it on the way down. The vultures were unwilling to pay their employees what they were worth. The idea that a union strike a couple of weeks ago caused a bankruptcy last January flies in the face of the laws of physics.


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> bitterlyclingin said:
> 
> 
> > [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
> ...



Why don't the employees just start their own company?


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Mad Scientist said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > hahahahahahahahahahahahah
> ...



So because bakers are unwilling to take a 30% pay cut while their boss gets a 300% raise - they are the ones taking choice from the consumer.

Jesus fucking Christ you are a corporate zombie.


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

CrusaderFrank said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > bitterlyclingin said:
> ...




Who says some of them won't? Its not like the demand for junk food is going to go down just because a single producer of it goes away.


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## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


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## Samson (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> thanatos144 said:
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> > Nosmo King said:
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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Complete and utter bullshit.......Do you honestly think taking away unions will cause unsafe working conditions?????? Or bad salary???? If this was true then that  would be how it is in right to work states but it isnt... you know why???? Cause you dont need a fucking parasite to live....I can see being a parasite is all you know so I don't expect you to understand.



Median wages are actually 9.4% lower in the right to get fired states.

Right-to-work law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Samson said:


> Is anyone eliminating government regulations?




Under Republicans, workplace safety enforcement is relaxed:

OSHA Leaves Worker Safety in Hands of Industry - New York Times

people die and get hurt as a result


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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Katzndogz said:
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> > Nosmo King said:
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## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Nosmo King said:
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> > Katzndogz said:
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## Katzndogz (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...


----------



## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


----------



## thanatos144 (Nov 19, 2012)

Okay the broke quotes are getting annoying.


----------



## KissMy (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The rich are job creators and the unions are job killers.  The Bakers Union killed Hostess the same way CALPERS killed San Bernardino.
> 
> What's more, the union knew exactly what it was doing because they made their demands while Hostess was in the middle of a bankruptcy knowing that it would never be able to meet the union demands.



Prices at the Hostess stores were far cheaper than their non-union competition. How was that possible because the media narrative is saying the opposite? Could it possibly be management's fault? Nooooooo! - The rich are job creators?  There would have been no strike had the rich not raided the union pension fund.

Wait! - Who owns the media who told you it was the unions fault????

 The All-Union Hostess stores even sell wonder bread cheaper than All Anti-Union Walmart.


----------



## Nosmo King (Nov 19, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


----------



## MikeK (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> So according to a bunch of vulture capitalists, unions are bad for employees.
> 
> Got it.


I can understand a business owner/employer, or a corporate executive, or someone employed in a managerial capacity harboring resentment for unions.  But I will wager that no more than possibly one or two of those who express such resentment for unions in this forum occupy any such categories.  

As to why anyone who works for wages can harbor such hostility for unions, the only possible reasons I can think of are complete ignorance of the history of and the need for unions in America -- or they are typical right-wing disciples who have been effectively brainwashed by such corporatist propagandists as Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, et. al.  A third possibility is those who for one reason or other have been unable to obtain employment in a union shop and are spitefully resentful.  

For the benefit of those union haters I've compiled a list of books which can provide a thorough education on the history and importance of the union movement in America, and what life would be like for working class Americans without it.  And for those who don't like to read I've provided a list of movies which are educational as well as entertaining.  

Books on Unions

Rebuilding Labor
Why Unions Matter
Unions At The Crossroads
The Transformation of U.S. Unions
Look For The Union Label
*"What Do We Need A Union For"*
The CIO
Infighting In The UAW


Movies About Unions

How Green Was My Valley
The Grapes Of Wrath
Native Land
On The Waterfront
The Pajama Game
Harlan County USA
The Organizer
Norma Rae
Matewan
The Molly Maguires
Hoffa


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> bitterlyclingin said:
> 
> 
> > [The Teamsters decided that if they didn't get what they wanted from Hostess, they'd kill the company. Grabbing the big bucks was well worth the risk of having no job at all. You can rest assured the likewise morons at GM and Chrysler will think the same way, for after all didn't they rape and sodomize the company they originally worked for until the death rattle was heard night and day throughout its plants, offices, and dealerships until the Union friendly Democrat, Barack Obama, came in and said I'll rape and sodomize the taxpayers instead so you can still keep your jobs in return for your votes. Obama did it once, the Union knows its guaranteed he'll do it again. The sky's the limit on their wages only because they have the taxpayer at their mercy to subsidize them until they reach infinity. GM's new plan for its business success also includes selling a vehicle for $40,000 that costs GM $89,000 to produce. What a plan. The miraculous fruits of affirmative action at work at GM
> ...



you really just believe anything don't you


----------



## MikeK (Nov 19, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 19, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...


----------



## KissMy (Nov 19, 2012)

bucs90 said:


> Why dont they just reopen the plant to a non-union state..like South Carolina?
> 
> I think their business is hurt as much by the emerging trend of eating healthier than just the unions. Revenue is down because people have wised up to the idea that eating shitty food will kill you.



Is that problem due to labor unions, marketing, product innovation/development or management who is in charge of these department's? What did management do besides raid the pension fund & overpay themselves while they lead the company off the cliff? Price was not the issue, because they have the cheapest stuff on the market. In my company I don't get paid until the employee gets paid. In what world does a company or country prosper when an outside CEO empties the employees pay from the pension fund to over pay his friends & himself?


----------



## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > bitterlyclingin said:
> ...





You're the only one whose theory requires the union travel through time back to January to cause a bankruptcy.


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 19, 2012)

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > OohPooPahDoo said:
> ...



how many jobs have you had?


----------



## OohPooPahDoo (Nov 19, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> > Stephanie said:
> ...



In my life?

7.


And in none of them was I able to magically travel back in time and negatively affect the company - as you claim the bakers have done.


----------



## longknife (Nov 19, 2012)

Just remember- Obama Killed The Twinkie!


----------



## Samson (Nov 19, 2012)

longknife said:


> Just remember- Obama Killed The Twinkie!



Only a picture really makes sense of that remark


----------



## HUGGY (Nov 19, 2012)

Samson said:


> longknife said:
> 
> 
> > Just remember- Obama Killed The Twinkie!
> ...



Damn!!!!

And just when word has it that Hostess was gonna come out with a line of crab cakes!

Sorry buddy!


----------



## House (Nov 19, 2012)

Apparently, Twinkies are going to bimbos.


----------



## MikeK (Nov 19, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Nosmo King said:
> ...


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 19, 2012)

MikeK said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...


----------



## MikeK (Nov 19, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Stephanie said:
> ...


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)




----------



## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 19, 2012)

Againsheila said:


>



*CEOs don't "give" themselves bonuses. (rolling eyes)*


----------



## freedombecki (Nov 19, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> 
> Thanks for collapsing another great American institution, Union filth.


Didn't they get some sacks of dog food product mixed up with the dog food they were making and some American pets died a few years back? And melamine-laced baby formula sent here, too?

Officials: Pet Food Poison May Have Been Intentional  US

Poisoned Baby Formula Kills 3, Makes 6,000 Babies Sick UK

FDA Don't Use Chinese Infant Formula US

I think negotiations should be undertaken to employ people who'd be willing to work at wages so the company can continue to operate privately.

Unions should grow up about investors being vital in order for their companies to have financial backing, and not the government.

Government invasion of every aspect of human life is what we had before we became an independent country. Let's not devolve back into that morass. It leads to abuse and neglect of the people through taxation without really representing their interests very well or worse yet, not at all.


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 19, 2012)

*Do any of us here want to listen to leftists giving sermons about China and how bad it and its practices are? Didn't they vote against the guy who openly claimed he was going to try to start to crack down on China?*


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 19, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> [
> 
> My god
> how sad you really want a gov't to do this,,,,
> ...



Actually, I'm being pretty reasonable. 

The guys who actually DO THE WORK should get the money.  

Frankly, I've never worked at a company where the executives and managers weren't more of a hinderence than a help more often than not.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 19, 2012)

CrotchetyGeezer said:


> *Do any of us here want to listen to leftists giving sermons about China and how bad it and its practices are? Didn't they vote against the guy who openly claimed he was going to try to start to crack down on China?*



Which has all the credibility of Jeff Dahmer offering to become a vegetairan.

ROmney made a fortune offshoring to China.  

Here's the thing. China isn't the problem.  It is doing EXACTLY what we should be doing- making sure that their working folks are taken care of by attracting business.  

The problem are these dickhead corporations who want to save a few bucks, and half the time hey don't.  The real goal is to break the American middle class.


----------



## percysunshine (Nov 19, 2012)

It takes a special kind of genius to come up with brand names like Hos, Ding Dongs and Twinkies.


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 19, 2012)

percysunshine said:


> It takes a special kind of genius to come up with brand names like Hos, Ding Dongs and Twinkies.









I know I posted this someplace else, but that was such a perfect opening....


----------



## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 19, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> CrotchetyGeezer said:
> 
> 
> > *Do any of us here want to listen to leftists giving sermons about China and how bad it and its practices are? Didn't they vote against the guy who openly claimed he was going to try to start to crack down on China?*
> ...



*Well this is more credibility than can be given to Obamination.*



> ROmney made a fortune offshoring to China.



*Prove it. Prove Romney personally offshored any jobs to China. And, save your leftist talking points. Give us a detailed explanation as to how it was Romney allegedly personally offshored any job to China and, make sure you legitimately prove how many jobs were allegedly personally offshored to China by Romney.
* 


> Here's the thing. China isn't the problem.  It is doing EXACTLY what we should be doing- making sure that their working folks are taken care of by attracting business.


*Sure China is a problem, your collective is whining about it constantly.
* 


> The problem are these dickhead corporations who want to save a few bucks, and half the time hey don't.  The real goal is to break the American middle class.


*No, the problem is government getting in the way with their regulations, red tape and other roadblocks. And, of course, as with the instance of Hostess, unions.

And, again, as I stated above, outsourcing jobs to China wouldn't be as bad if that outsourced job was offset by a job from another foreign country being outsourced here of the same nature.
*


----------



## daveman (Nov 19, 2012)

Neotrotsky said:


> Republican house, again
> to slow up or stop the left's radical agenda
> 
> Really, the US voter could have kicked them out



Remember, the people's voice only counts when they vote for Democrats.


----------



## daveman (Nov 19, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Neotrotsky said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


This is "success" to liberals:


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 19, 2012)

KissMy said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe we can start buying Twinkies from China.
> ...



Only an illiterate twit would see "Twinkies" and read "fresh bread".


----------



## JOSweetHeart (Nov 19, 2012)

I remember the Hostess commercials that would always include someone asking where the cream filling is. I don't know what the rest of y'all think, but to me, the Little Debbie company has the better cream filling.   

God bless you always!!!   

Holly


----------



## House (Nov 19, 2012)

JOSweetHeart said:


> I remember the Hostess commercials that would always include someone asking where the cream filling is. I don't know what the rest of y'all think, but to me, the Little Debbie company has the better cream filling.
> 
> God bless you always!!!
> 
> Holly



Little Debbie has good creme filling, but I have the best cream filling.


----------



## JOSweetHeart (Nov 19, 2012)

^^^    

God bless you always!!!   

Holly


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## KissMy (Nov 20, 2012)

Taxpayers are on the hook for the money Hostess executives raided from the pension fund. 

Twinkies Defense Is Private Equity's Pension Offense - Tax Payers Backed Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) may have to cover the shortage. The company's IBC Defined Benefit Plan had about $56 million in assets and $111 million in liabilities as of April 30, according to the PBGC.

Hostess suspended payments to the 42 multiemployer pension plans to which it contributes in August 2011. &#8220;For active employees, the circumstances differ for each MEPP, so (participants) should contact the administrator of the MEPP&#8221; in which they participate, Mr. Ignon said in an email, citing an employee Q&A document. He could not provide further information by press time.


----------



## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 20, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> percysunshine said:
> 
> 
> > It takes a special kind of genius to come up with brand names like Hos, Ding Dongs and Twinkies.
> ...



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA32ikd9B34"]Nala the Laughing Cat (ORIGINAL) - YouTube[/ame]​


----------



## Mr. H. (Nov 20, 2012)

Twinkie Twinkie
Little star
How I wonder
Where you are...


----------



## editec (Nov 20, 2012)

All this whining about the creative destruction of the capitaist system?


Why?


The Righties keep telling us that creative destruction of capitalism is a good thing.

Why is it bad THIS time?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 20, 2012)

More bad news for the Right Winger haters of working people...

Hostess, union agree to try mediation to avoid liquidation - latimes.com



> Twinkies may live on after all.
> 
> Bankrupt Hostess Brands Inc. and its striking union agreed to enter into mediation to try to resolve their differences, putting the baking company's planned liquidation on hold for now.
> 
> ...


----------



## blastoff (Nov 20, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> > more fucking lies.
> ...



Um...wouldn't 'first' imply some sort of mastery?


----------



## longknife (Nov 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> CrotchetyGeezer said:
> 
> 
> > *Do any of us here want to listen to leftists giving sermons about China and how bad it and its practices are? Didn't they vote against the guy who openly claimed he was going to try to start to crack down on China?*
> ...



Appears we have another who can't get over it!

Another four years of blaming Pres Bush and hearing about how Gov Romney hid his $!


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 20, 2012)




----------



## rightwinger (Nov 20, 2012)

snopes.com: Hostess Executive Raises


----------



## thanatos144 (Nov 20, 2012)

Can we stop with the progressive sites that don't source shit?


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Can we stop with the progressive sites that don't source shit?



snopes is the biggest thorn in the side of Conservative misinformation


----------



## House (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Can we stop with the progressive sites that don't source shit?


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Nov 20, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


> Can we stop with the progressive sites that don't source shit?



Please post proof that snopes is incorrect.

Thanks - ever so much.


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## rightwinger (Nov 20, 2012)

Hostess Managers 75 Percent | Today News Gazette


----------



## RoadVirus (Nov 20, 2012)

House said:


> Apparently, Twinkies are going to bimbos.



Twinkies being owned by a Mexican comapny....now that really will make Twinkies unhealthy.


----------



## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 20, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> thanatos144 said:
> 
> 
> > Can we stop with the progressive sites that don't source shit?
> ...



*Snopes puts its own liberal spin on everything. There...easy enough. A great deal of the time, it's actually just a matter of their opinion that some claim is false, rather than actual documented evidence to back up their claim some claim is false. Like, for instance, their claim that the punk-in-chief isn't a Muslim. Their claim that the claim is false is simply a matter of their own opinion of the matter as they can't prove whether one has Muslim tendencies or not, whether they claim they're a Christian or not. I can claim to be a Christian all I want and even show you pictures of me in church. Doesn't necessarily mean I am. And, additionally, whether your a Christian doesn't say what ideals it is you follow and what others see you as. The punk-in-chief may not be a Muslim? But, Muslims certainly see him as one of their own by extension of his behavior and actions.*


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 20, 2012)

Apparently Hostess isn't dead yet.  Some judge has ordered talks between Hostess and the union.


----------



## MikeK (Nov 20, 2012)

CrotchetyGeezer said:


> luddly.neddite said:
> 
> 
> > thanatos144 said:
> ...


Let's assume for the sake of discussion you are right.  Do you believe all Muslims are innately hostile to non-Muslims?  And what about Obama's behavior suggests to you he is a Muslim?


----------



## Politico (Nov 20, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Apparently Hostess isn't dead yet.  Some judge has ordered talks between Hostess and the union.



But...but...evryone here has been saying they were. Except for one. Hmm who was that?


----------



## BillyV (Nov 20, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Apparently Hostess isn't dead yet.  Some judge has ordered talks between Hostess and the union.



They apparently didn't go so well. Liquidation to begin tomorrow, mediation fails. Interesting that the president of the Baker's Union didn't even feel it necessary to attend....

Hostess mediation fails, so Twinkies company to liquidate


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 20, 2012)

BillyV said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently Hostess isn't dead yet.  Some judge has ordered talks between Hostess and the union.
> ...



He'd better have a darn good reason for not attending the meetings....if you don't try, of course it's going to fail.


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 20, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


> More bad news for the Right Winger haters of working people...
> 
> Hostess, union agree to try mediation to avoid liquidation - latimes.com
> 
> ...



quit being so damn dramatic..
now you are pulling the right wing haters shit of working people..I mean really
They wanted to belong to this union and followed them OVER the cliff out of a job.. any sane working people would of kept the job they had,.especially in this economy..they get no sympathy they did it to themselves


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 20, 2012)




----------



## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 20, 2012)

MikeK said:


> CrotchetyGeezer said:
> 
> 
> > luddly.neddite said:
> ...



*I have no reason to believe otherwise.*



> And what about Obama's behavior suggests to you he is a Muslim?



*Oh...you know, his apology tours, personable speeches beamed directly to Muslims through television feeds, his blame America first attitude, stuff like that. Don't play coy.*


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 21, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> BillyV said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



probably because he realized this hedge fund guys were lying sacks of shit, so why bother.


----------



## House (Nov 21, 2012)

Againsheila said:


>



That's a comforting thought, actually.

I wouldn't want to get _shit_, this Christmas (or any other, for that matter).


----------



## MikeK (Nov 21, 2012)

CrotchetyGeezer said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > CrotchetyGeezer said:
> ...


I'm not playing coy at all.  I've asked you two serious questions and your response indicates you haven't been looking very closely at the Muslim category.  Has your observation of the Muslim world included the fact that the U.S. had relatively little conflict with Muslims until we began asserting ourselves on them militarily?

For example, are you aware of the provocation for the 9/11 attack?  If not, let me know and I'll inform you of something I'm sure you'll find quite interesting. 

(By the way, in case you're wondering, I was baptized and confirmed Catholic but have since become an atheist.)


----------



## KissMy (Nov 21, 2012)

Just saw Hostess Turnaround Executive & Union Leader on CNBC after they emerged from court.  Executive did not deny the pension fund was raided. He admitted that management messed up along with unions. The union rep believes the union will survive the company sale & that they will all be working again soon with better pay & benefits than the current management was going to give them. He said current management raided their pensions & wanted a 24% union pay cut phased in at 8% per year.

So basically what we have here yet again is overpaid executives have bankrupted another Great American Company & raided their pension fund leaving US TAX PAYERS WITH THE TAB!!! - That's right - The Tax Payer backed PBGC will have to pay back the money these corporate raiders stole from workers pensions to fund their 300% corporate raise. It is going to be such glorious fun paying higher & higher taxes so rich executives can treat us like the surf's we have become.


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## ScienceRocks (Nov 21, 2012)

Fuck the unions,

I'd look into expanding the uses of robots!


----------



## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 21, 2012)

MikeK said:


> CrotchetyGeezer said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...



*I try not to look at the "Muslim category" as much as possible. I find the "Muslim category" quite abhorrent.*



> Has  your observation of the Muslim world included the fact that the U.S.  had relatively little conflict with Muslims until we began asserting  ourselves on them militarily?



*First,  the U.S. had very little conflict with Muslims because it has only been  since about World War I that the United States ventured outside its  borders in any significant manner or numbers. Second, why don't you  elaborate a little further on why it has been that we've asserted ourselves on Muslims militarily? *



> For example, are you aware of the provocation for the 9/11 attack?



*First,  what 9/11 attack? There were two of them. One in 2001 and, one in 2012.  Clarify. Second, if you're referring to the 2001 attack? There was no  one single "provocation" for the attack. There were a lot of excuses but, if Osama and his collective couldn't have used those excuses, they would have just simply made something up.*



> If not, let me know and I'll inform you of something I'm sure you'll find quite interesting.



*I doubt I'd find your lies quite interesting. Laughable...maybe, but not necessarily interesting.*



> (By the way, in case you're wondering, I was baptized and confirmed Catholic but have since become an atheist.)



*I wasn't wondering.*


----------



## Jarlaxle (Nov 22, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> BillyV said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



Can the judge declare him in contempt and throw him in jail?


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 22, 2012)

Jarlaxle said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > BillyV said:
> ...



Considering Hostess raided their pension fund, I think contempt is justifiable...


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 22, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



how could they do that and what proof do you have of it?


----------



## Againsheila (Nov 22, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



They admitted it after the mediation....there was an article...I'm too tired to look for it now, and too busy.


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 22, 2012)

Againsheila said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



well you'll have to excuse me but I doubt it..Not saying you're wrong or right
But I don't see how they could and then go in front of a judge without repercussions..
Have a Happy Thanksgiving


----------



## House (Nov 22, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> > Stephanie said:
> ...



Doubt it all you like, it doesn't change the fact it happened.  Get off your lazy butt and do a search if you want confirmation.


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 22, 2012)

House said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > Againsheila said:
> ...



well YOU know they did why didn't you POST the proof you have?
or you just wanted to call people lazy butts


----------



## House (Nov 22, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> House said:
> 
> 
> > Stephanie said:
> ...



Anybody that can't run a simple search in Google, demanding people do their searches for them, is a lazy ass.


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 22, 2012)

House said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > House said:
> ...



someone who has the proof and won't post it is a horses ass


----------



## House (Nov 22, 2012)

Stephanie said:


> House said:
> 
> 
> > Stephanie said:
> ...



How do you think they got it?  They googled the shit.  What, do you think people bookmark every article they read?  In order to get your precious proof, people have to google it all over again.

Try showing some initiative instead of enslaving everybody else to do your research for you.


----------



## BarbaraHavers (Nov 25, 2012)

luddly.neddite said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > clevergirl said:
> ...



$30/hour to stock shelves... too funny


----------



## BarbaraHavers (Nov 25, 2012)

SniperFire said:


> Gideonprime said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...



If they're lucky enough to qualify for bennies and pensions.

"In the two years since OUR Walmart's creation, Walmart (WMT) has twice raised the number of hours that part-time employees need to qualify for health benefits. Wage caps begun about six years ago block raises for some longtime employees in the same jobs. And some workers say the company's work-scheduling system limits their hours below what they need to qualify for benefits and produces such widely varying schedules that it's difficult to take a second job to make ends meet.

A "Declaration of Respect" that about 100 OUR Walmart members presented to the company last June calls on Walmart to offer affordable health care, create more dependable schedules and pay at least $13 an hour, among other things.

Walmart says the national average hourly wage for its full-time workers is $12.40 but declined to say what it is for part-time workers. The federal minimum wage has been $7.25 since 2009."

Walmart workers band together for better wages, affordable benefits


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 25, 2012)

I blame us all for the demise of the Twinkie. We have taken the Twinkie for granted, mocked it as low class, forbid our children from eating the forbidden snack

Those who mourn the mighty Twinkie only need to look in a mirror for blame


----------



## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 25, 2012)

BarbaraHavers said:


> SniperFire said:
> 
> 
> > Gideonprime said:
> ...



*What would be the difference between what the full-time wage is and what the part-time wage is? If you're doing the same type of work, why would a part-time employee somehow be paid a larger hourly wage than a full-time employee? If you're stocking shelves and the average full-time hourly wage is $12.40 then, the part-time hourly wage for stocking shelves should be $12.40. They shouldn't get a larger hourly wage simply because they're working part time.*


----------



## ScienceRocks (Nov 25, 2012)

Union idiocy destroyed the twinkie. They wouldn't talk and think about the health of the corporation...


----------



## rightwinger (Nov 25, 2012)

Matthew said:


> Union idiocy destroyed the twinkie. They wouldn't talk and think about the health of the corporation...



You should have eaten more Twinkies

Stop passing the buck


----------



## BarbaraHavers (Nov 25, 2012)

CrotchetyGeezer said:


> BarbaraHavers said:
> 
> 
> > SniperFire said:
> ...



IMO, no difference for the same job.  But apparently there's a difference to Wal-Mart and they don't want to discuss it, since they won't give the dollar amount for part-time workers.


----------



## thanatos144 (Nov 25, 2012)

They still cant believe that hostess want lying LOL You progressives are complete fools.


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 25, 2012)

BarbaraHavers said:


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*Why do they need to give the dollar amount for part-time workers though? Anyone with any common sense whatsoever can figure out that if the national average wage for its full-time workers is $12.40, this is likely the average wage for its part time workers as well for doing the same type of work. It all depends on what position it is one applies for and what area of the country they live in. Now, if they have positions which are offered only as part-time and there are no full-time positions available for that type of work then, the average hourly wage would likely be different. But if, for instance the average hourly wage for a full-time stockperson is $12.40 then, the average hourly wage for a part-time stockperson would be $12.40 as well, since I'm sure the part-time stockperson is getting paid the same $12.40 per hour that the full-time stockperson is getting paid. Now, benefits on the other hand? Part-time workers wouldn't likely get benefits. But, of course, most jobs at Walmart aren't intended to be career jobs in the first place, unless you're in a managerial position or something of that nature. It's intended to be a job to supplement another job of which you and/or your significant other are working. These people who think they should go to Walmart as a cashier and expect to get paid the same wage as a welder or something are a laugh a minute. Most of the jobs at Walmart are generally for kids and young folks in high school or just barely out of high school and aren't necessarily for people who are looking for a permanent career. If one wants $30 to $40 an hour, they should look for jobs that pay that type of wage.*


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## thanatos144 (Nov 25, 2012)

CrotchetyGeezer said:


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you can work at wal-mart as a career....You wont get rich but you can work until you retire....Just cause YOU think the work is beneath you doesnt mean you cant move up in the company with hard work.


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 25, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


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*Oh...yeah, you can work at Walmart as a career if you want to. If, you're satisfied with making the kind of money it is one makes at Walmart. Or, if you have a second job and/or your significant other has a job which pays well and the Walmart job is just an extra career on the side. But, if one has a family with children? I don't think I'd recommend relying solely on a Walmart job as a career. And, yes, some can manage to work their way up in the company if they're willing to work hard and strive for it. But, it isn't going to happen overnight. But, I did mention a "managerial position or something of that nature". Which, is to imply someone worked their way up into the managerial position. Most people probably don't start out in managerial positions at Walmart and they likely do have to work their way up in the company. Even someone who has been a manager somewhere else probably has to start out as a cashier or something like that before they finally work their way up into a managerial position at Walmart.*


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## thanatos144 (Nov 25, 2012)

CrotchetyGeezer said:


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So all the work they do is beneath you? Your better then them?


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 25, 2012)

thanatos144 said:


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*You're making too much out of what I'm saying. Didn't say a thing about the work being beneath me nor, did I imply I'm better than them. But, if they're leftists? Then, yeah, I think I'm better than them. But, that would be true in most any instance and not exclusive to anyone working at Walmart.
*


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## thanatos144 (Nov 26, 2012)

CrotchetyGeezer said:


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While money is great and most wish they had more it is not the most important thing in a career....Being good at your job and actually enjoying it are. We have stepped away from this with all the emphasis on education and making the millions....As we can see higher education is becoming more and more irrelevant and now we are creating a generation that cant make anything....Or do anything. It use to be you found a job you worked and you got paid. You did it to feed your family. You job wasn't your life.


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## MikeK (Nov 26, 2012)

BarbaraHavers said:


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That might seem funny because corporate America's grip on the throat of our Congress makes such a wage seem outside the realm of possibility.  But it isn't.  In fact, within a system of _profit-sharing_ it is entirely possible for someone stocking shelves to earn $30 an hour.  Sometimes more -- through *profit-sharing.* 

If *profit-sharing* were a universal system within the American corporate structure it would eliminate the practice of exporting American jobs to foreign shores.  

*Profit-sharing* would put so much money in the pockets of ordinary working class Americans, who would spend it rather than hoard it, the consumer demand would create an unlimited number of jobs.  With that much money circulating in our economy the poverty level in America would be near zero.

*Profit-sharing* in corporate America is the ultimate socialist objective.  And for greedy corporate executives it is a policy they fear as much as they fear terminal cancer.  Which is why the subject is rarely if ever discussed in the mainstream media, which is corporate-controlled.


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## daveman (Nov 26, 2012)

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Yeah.  How'd that work out in the USSR, Cuba, North Korea, and China?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 27, 2012)

daveman said:


> [
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> Yeah.  How'd that work out in the USSR, Cuba, North Korea, and China?



Yup, Plutocracy and Communism are the ONLY choices on the menu.  

There is nothing in between.  

I know you really need to believe that.


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## MikeK (Nov 27, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


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Before I began visiting these Internet political forums I had no idea how thorough and tenacious the right-wing brainwash really is.  Some of these people are true believers and no amount of evidence or common-sense reasoning to the contrary of the propaganda they have come to love can budge them.  They are analogous to the End-Of-The-World cult and most of them are still reeling from the shock of Obama's re-election.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 27, 2012)

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You should really visit sites like TownHall or RedState, if you want to see how nutty these guys get when no one opposes them.


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## HUGGY (Nov 27, 2012)

daveman said:


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You just never get tired of making stupid statements do you.  Lots of prosperous companies are owned by managemnent AND the employees.

What a willfully ignorant fuck!


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 27, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


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*What other choices are there other than one other one...socialism?*


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 27, 2012)

MikeK said:


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*Before I began visiting these Internet political forums I had no idea how thorough and tenacious the left-wing brainwash really is. Some of these people are true believers and no amount of evidence or common-sense budge them. They are analogous to the End-Of-The-World cult and most of them are still reeling from the shock of George W. Bush's election.*


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## JoeB131 (Nov 27, 2012)

CrotchetyGeezer said:


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How about what we had in the 1950's.  

Strong workers unions, but also management that planned long term and wasn't looking to make a quick buck looting a company by loading it down with debt?


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 27, 2012)

JoeB131 said:


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*But, but, but...I thought leftists are progressive and are against the idea of living in the past?*


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## MikeK (Nov 27, 2012)

CrotchetyGeezer said:


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That's called plagiaristic editing.  But in the example of right-wing fanaticism it's not surprising.  

While I'm sure you and others in this forum regard me as a left-winger the fact is I was a registered Republican with Conservative leanings dating back to Barry Goldwater.  But today's Republican Party, and today's Conservative ideologies, are starkly different from what they were before the Reagan Revolution when they were more intelligent, reasonable, and honorable.  

I shamefully confess I was so fed up with Bill Clinton's bullshit I stupidly voted for George W. Bush because I believed Gore was likely to be contaminated by association.  But that turned out to be one of the great and shameful mistakes of my life.  The only consolation I have is knowing others who made the same mistake and for the same reason.  

It didn't take long for the Bush presidency to awaken me to something I should have realized long before 2003, which is when I said goodbye to the Republican Party and re-registered as a Democrat.  The only reason I chose the Democrat Party is there is no Independent Party in New Jersey and I wish to vote in primaries.


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## CrotchetyGeezer (Nov 27, 2012)

MikeK said:


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*What are you going to do about it?*



MikeK said:


> But in the example of right-wing fanaticism it's not surprising.



*Give it a rest...Stimpy.*



MikeK said:


> While I'm sure you and others in this forum regard me as a left-winger the fact is I was a registered Republican with Conservative leanings dating back to Barry Goldwater.  But today's Republican Party, and today's Conservative ideologies, are starkly different from what they were before the Reagan Revolution when they were more intelligent, reasonable, and honorable.
> 
> I shamefully confess I was so fed up with Bill Clinton's bullshit I stupidly voted for George W. Bush because I believed Gore was likely to be contaminated by association.  But that turned out to be one of the great and shameful mistakes of my life.  The only consolation I have is knowing others who made the same mistake and for the same reason.
> 
> It didn't take long for the Bush presidency to awaken me to something I should have realized long before 2003, which is when I said goodbye to the Republican Party and re-registered as a Democrat.  The only reason I chose the Democrat Party is there is no Independent Party in New Jersey and I wish to vote in primaries.



*I'm happy for you. You want a cookie or something now?*


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