# Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?



## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz, 
Aug 2, 2022

In January of 2023, Alabama will become the 25th state in the U.S. that isn't requiring any permits to carry a gun in public. In recent years, more and more states have enacted similar legislation. Indiana, together with Georgia and Ohio, did so this year. The change made headlines as it occurred just two weeks before a deadly mass shooting at a mall in an Indianapolis suburb, where a gunman killed three and wounded two more before being shot dead by a bystander who also carried a gun.


this is ridiculous!!
I don't blame Biden for getting mad.


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## fncceo (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​



All the best ones.


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## sparky (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I don't blame Biden for getting mad.


but you'll _blame_ the gun for going off......

~S~


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...



MINE!  

Please continue to hide under your bed, pissing yourself in fear.


.


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## Vastator (Nov 27, 2022)

The ones that know the Constitution...


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

*A well-regulated milita,* instead there are a whole bunch of militias.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


Shall not be infringed. Did you read the article you posted ? Good guy with a gun stopped a shooting from being worse. Unless you are pissed that a law abiding citizen exercised his Constitutional right and stopped a mass killer ? Wouldn't surprise me.


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

sparky said:


> but you'll _blame_ the gun for going off......
> 
> ~S~


Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot. There are more than 600 mass shooting since the beginning of the year.


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Shall not be infringed. Did you read the article you posted ? Good guy with a gun stopped a shooting from being worse. Unless you are pissed that a law abiding citizen exercised his Constitutional right and stopped a mass killer ? Wouldn't surprise me.


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,* the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.*
https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/#:~:text=A well regulated Militia, being,Arms, shall not be infringed.
U.S. Constitution - Second Amendment | Library of Congress​https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/#:~:text=A well regulated Militia, being,Arms, shall not be infringed.

The state is well regulated, we have a NG.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> *A well-regulated milita,* instead there are a whole bunch of militias.


The right of the *people* to bear arms shall not be infringed. In subsequent writings the Founding Fathers were clear on the individual right to own firearms.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Stephens Smith, son-in-law of John Adams, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, _Commonplace Book_ (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"To disarm the people..._s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787_


Penelope said:


> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,* the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.*
> https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/#:~:text=A well regulated Militia, being,Arms, shall not be infringed.
> U.S. Constitution - Second Amendment | Library of Congress​https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/#:~:text=A well regulated Militia, being,Arms, shall not be infringed.
> 
> The state is well regulated, we have a NG.


You didn't capitalize the part about the right of the people to be arms shall not be infringed, why is that ? Because it blows your argument out of the water, don't worry though I'm addressing that in another post.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> *A well-regulated milita,* instead there are a whole bunch of militias.


The right of the *people* to bear arms shall not be infringed. In subsequent writings the Founding Fathers were clear on the individual right to own firearms. 

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Stephens Smith, son-in-law of John Adams, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, _Commonplace Book_ (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"To disarm the people..._s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."

- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788_


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

The 13 original states were *New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia*. The 13 original states were the first 13 British colonies. British colonists traveled across the Atlantic Ocean from Europe.
There were 13 original states. Name three.​There were 13 state then, now they are 25 that don't give a gun permit.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot. There are more than 600 mass shooting since the beginning of the year.


Most of those are in liberal utopia's like Chicago and are gang related.


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

shall not be infringed meaning the defense of the state.


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Most of those are in liberal utopia's like Chicago and are gang related.


Most of them are by right wing nuts.


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## 22lcidw (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


When Joe was elected to the Senate 50 years ago, tell me how he is the same. And he was not good back then. A man who promotes himself middle class even as he screws them over.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Most of them are by right wing nuts.


No they are not, most are gang related shootings. 
Lone gunmen outliers in nation’s mass shootings


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


You laugh but pretty soon you can be one shot dead from a mass shooting.


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## Mac-7 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot. There are more than 600 mass shooting since the beginning of the year.


Do you think permits will deter crazy people?


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> No they are not, most are gang related shootings.
> Lone gunmen outliers in nation’s mass shootings


They are mainly right wing nuts.


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Do you think permits will deter crazy people?


A person isn't crazy until they shoot to kill.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> They are mainly right wing nuts.


Your just babling out your factually wrong opinion with zero supporting evidence. Post a link.


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## Mac-7 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> A person isn't crazy until they shoot to kill.


I ask you a serious question that you obviously want to avoid

Because you know that the crazy person does not respect the law


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

Americans Have More Guns Than Anywhere Else in the World and They Keep Buying More
					

The mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas, is putting the spotlight on the US being the most heavily armed civilian population by far in the world. A recent spurt of firearms purchases has likely increased that lead.




					www.bloomberg.com


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> I ask you a serious question that you obviously want to avoid
> 
> Because you know that the crazy person does not respect the law


*Anyone can go crazy.*


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Your just babling out your factually wrong opinion with zero supporting evidence. Post a link.


Gun ownership U.S. 2021, by party affiliation​Published by Statista Research Department, Dec 1, 2021
I*n the United States in 2021, 50 percent of Republicans reported that they owned at least one gun,* and 61 percent said that they lived in a household with a gun. *In comparison, only 21 percent of Democrats owned at least one gun, and 31 percent lived a gun household.









						Gun ownership, by party affiliation U.S. 2022 | Statista
					

In the United States in 2022, 48 percent of Republicans reported that they owned at least one gun, and 66 percent said that they lived in a household with a gun.




					www.statista.com
				



*
and they can go crazy almost instantly and perform a mass murder.


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## Mac-7 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> *Anyone can go crazy.*


True

And it could happen when they are driving past a school where children are walking home

Or during a Christmas parade where the mere name drives godless libs insane


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## Golfing Gator (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> this is ridiculous!!



No, it is as our founders intended. 



Penelope said:


> but pretty soon you can be one shot dead from a mass shooting



So might you, except that you would be incapable of defending yourself


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## sparky (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Anyone can go crazy.


sure, _have at it_....~S~


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## Golfing Gator (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> and they can go crazy almost instantly and perform a mass murder.



Yet, how many do?

More than 75 million Americans own a least one gun, yet this year you claim there has only been 600 mass shooting.

That means that 0.0008% of gun owners go crazy almost instantly and perform a mass murder.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You laugh but pretty soon you can be one shot dead from a mass shooting.



You are far more likely than I am to be mowed down by a crazy animal with a gun, because I live in a state that allows me to carry an equalizer and I guarantee you, I'm a far better shot than this sewer rat.









By the way, while we're on the subject of you fantasizing about the brutal deaths of those who disagree with you,  have you had your booster this week?



.


.


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## JWBooth (Nov 27, 2022)

Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​The best ones, now #gOfuCkYoUrsELf


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## strollingbones (Nov 27, 2022)

i wished 2nd adm fans were fans of all the amendments


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## strollingbones (Nov 27, 2022)

there is a big difference between open carry and concealed carry


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> A person isn't crazy until they shoot to kill.



You are the very best argument against the validity of this statement.  

Unless this is code for you stating that you've shot somebody.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????????????????


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 27, 2022)

strollingbones said:


> i wished 2nd adm fans were fans of all the amendments



Go crawl back under your bed and remain scared.


.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> A person isn't crazy until they shoot to kill.


That's not true.  There are a lot of people who are mentally ill and will never try to harm another person. 

Then there are people who are not clinically mentally ill, they're just evil dissatisfied people such as the gunman who shot and killed over 50 people at the country music festival in Las Vegas years ago.

There is another group of people, primarily males who simply have never been taught successful dispute resolution or those like the Walmart shooter recently who apparently believed that no one in a position to actually do anything about his grievances would take action so he took action himself.  These people, in my opinion, are not crazy.  Some of them just don't care about how many people they hurt and some of them do these shooting exactly because of the pain it will inflict upon the victims loved ones.  That's why the worse of them kill children, in order to hurt the parents.

I don't know about you but with so many of these incidents happening it seems almost daily and everywhere in the country, I would rather be armed and have at least a fighting chance than just to be left at the mercy of the shooter.


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 6,012 homicides in 2021. This is followed by firearms of an unstated type, with 4,740 cases in that year.

Why do murders happen in the U.S.?​While most of the time the circumstances of murders in the U.S. remain unknown, homicides due to narcotics come in as the second most common circumstance – making them more common than, for example, gang killings. Despite these gruesome facts, the violent crime rate has fallen significantly since 1990, and the United States is much safer than it was in the 1980s and 1990s.

Knife crime vs cancer: Leading causes of death​The death rate in the U.S. has hovered around the same level since 1990. Heart disease, cancer, and chronic lower respiratory diseases were the three leading causes of death in the country in 2018. The rate of death by cancer is significantly higher than the homicide rate in the United States, at 149.1 deaths per 100,000 population compared to a 6.5 homicides per 100,000. Given just 1,035 murders are caused by knife crime, it is fair to say that cancer is a far bigger killer in the U.S.


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

Mass shootings in the U.S. by shooter’s by race/ethnicity as of November 2022​Published by Statista Research Department, Nov 24, 2022
Between 1982 and November 2022, *73 out of the 137 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by white shooters. By comparison, the perpetrator was African American in 21 mass shootings, and Latino in 11.* When calculated as percentages, this amounts to 53 percent, 16 percent, and eight percent respectively.








						Mass shootings by shooter’s race in the U.S. 2022 | Statista
					

Between 1982 and November 2022, 73 out of the 137 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by white shooters.




					www.statista.com


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Gun ownership U.S. 2021, by party affiliation​Published by Statista Research Department, Dec 1, 2021
> I*n the United States in 2021, 50 percent of Republicans reported that they owned at least one gun,* and 61 percent said that they lived in a household with a gun. *In comparison, only 21 percent of Democrats owned at least one gun, and 31 percent lived a gun household.
> 
> 
> ...


All that states is gun ownership by party and doesnt have anything to do with mass shootings. You still have not proved your opinion. Your just making shit up.


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> That's not true.  There are a lot of people who are mentally ill and will never try to harm another person.
> 
> Then there are people who are not clinically mentally ill, they're just evil dissatisfied people such as the gunman who shot and killed over 50 people at the country music festival in Las Vegas years ago.
> 
> ...


They go crazy.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 27, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> All that states is gun ownership by party and doesnt have anything to do with mass shootings. You still have not proved your opinion. Your just making shit up.



That's Penelope's highest skill -- making shit up.


.


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## Mac-7 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> They go crazy.


The villain is our criminally insane liberal culture thats driving people to commit mass murder

This is something new in a society that has always had free access to guns


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 27, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> The villain is our criminally insane liberal culture thats driving people to commit mass murder
> 
> This is something new in a society that has always had free access to guns



Want to bet this will be the next mass shooter?  She's getting close.

Walmart line cutter is not having a good day | Radio Gunk


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## sparky (Nov 27, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Want to bet this will be the next mass shooter?  She's getting close.
> 
> Walmart line cutter is not having a good day | Radio Gunk


having a _hissy _fit wearing a mask just seems to loose_ effect_.......~S~


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 27, 2022)

sparky said:


> having a _hissy _fit wearing a mask just seems to loose_ effect_.......~S~



LOL!  Yep.


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Most of them are by right wing nuts.


LOL so now blacks are right wing nuts hu?


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## strollingbones (Nov 27, 2022)

well ye sure is   ....  RetiredGySgt


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


Ridiculous is having massive gun control with high numbers of gun deaths week after week. You support ignorance


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> You laugh but pretty soon you can be one shot dead from a mass shooting.


Why does California lead the nation in mass shootings?


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot. There are more than 600 mass shooting since the beginning of the year.


Dumbass they still have to do a background check ATF 4473


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Nov 27, 2022)

strollingbones said:


> i wished 2nd adm fans were fans of all the amendments


If your against the 2nd Amendment your against them all. The right to bear arms is a check against a tyrannical government.


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 27, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Want to bet this will be the next mass shooter?  She's getting close.
> 
> Walmart line cutter is not having a good day | Radio Gunk


Got to be in a democrat controlled city. Because that childish bullshit will get your ass knocked the fuck out around here


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## bigrebnc1775 (Nov 27, 2022)

strollingbones said:


> i wished 2nd adm fans were fans of all the amendments


You don't support the bill of rights you fucking moron


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## Mikeoxenormous (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 27, 2022)




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## struth (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


man if that guy was require to have to have. permit those people would still be a live!

haha you are an idiot


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## 1srelluc (Nov 27, 2022)

In Virginia we can open carry without a permit (it's always been that way) but you need a permit for concealed carry. I really don't know of any of my peers that don't have a permit.....Pretty common in my AO.

Hell most of the hinterland SDs even hold classes a couple of times a year.


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## gipper (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Most of them are by right wing nuts.


You were wrong about the unvaxxed and now you’re wrong about gun owners and the 2A. Have you ever been right about anything?


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## Golfing Gator (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Mass shootings in the U.S. by shooter’s by race/ethnicity as of November 2022​Published by Statista Research Department, Nov 24, 2022
> Between 1982 and November 2022, *73 out of the 137 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by white shooters. By comparison, the perpetrator was African American in 21 mass shootings, and Latino in 11.* When calculated as percentages, this amounts to 53 percent, 16 percent, and eight percent respectively.
> 
> 
> ...



So, in a post above you said there were more than 600 mass shootings this year, now you are saying there have only been 137 since 1982.

Which is it?


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## pknopp (Nov 27, 2022)

Well, this hasn't been beat to death in a day or two I suppose.


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## petro (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> *A well-regulated milita,* instead there are a whole bunch of militias.


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## Maxdeath (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> They are mainly right wing nuts.


You have just got to laugh at the complete lack of thought and the total indoctrination on display with this statement.
Every robber is right wing, every black involved in a gun charge is right wing, every cartel member is right wing. 
To say that there is any brain behind what is said in any of the posts presented would be a major exaggeration


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## Penelope (Nov 27, 2022)

*Is that so they have the guns to overtake the government if the republicans don't win the House and Senate.*


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## BluesLegend (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot. There are more than 600 mass shooting since the beginning of the year.


By far, more have been killed in mass killings by other means than by guns. Where is your concern and outrage for those victims? Stop the hyperventilating anti gun drama and learn your history.


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## gipper (Nov 27, 2022)

Maxdeath said:


> You have just got to laugh at the complete lack of thought and the total indoctrination on display with this statement.
> Every robber is right wing, every black involved in a gun charge is right wing, every cartel member is right wing.
> To say that there is any brain behind what is said in any of the posts presented would be a major exaggeration


Penny is a proven authoritarian. In another life, she was a Nazi prison guard. She’s stated many times on this forum she wants the unvaxxed to die. She’s the face of the Fascist Left.


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## BrokeLoser (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


I’ll say it again….you freedom hating filth can easily solve ANOTHER problem you cause by passing laws that keep guns out of the hands of dark Democrats……TA-DA!





						LAPD Most Wanted
					






					www.lapdonline.org


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Nov 27, 2022)

It wasn't perfect but she foiled the car jacking attempt, in Chicago no less!
https://www.fo
xnews.com/us/chicago-woman-concealed-carry-license-foils-attempted-carjacking-shooting-man-head


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## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Mass shootings in the U.S. by shooter’s by race/ethnicity as of November 2022​Published by Statista Research Department, Nov 24, 2022
> Between 1982 and November 2022, *73 out of the 137 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by white shooters. By comparison, the perpetrator was African American in 21 mass shootings, and Latino in 11.* When calculated as percentages, this amounts to 53 percent, 16 percent, and eight percent respectively.
> 
> 
> ...



So tell us, where do we lose more people, in individual shootings or mass shootings?  Hint:  One city, Chicago, had 7 deadly shootings and 18 shooting injuries, and the holiday weekend isn't even over yet.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 6,012 homicides in 2021. This is followed by firearms of an unstated type, with 4,740 cases in that year.
> 
> Why do murders happen in the U.S.?​While most of the time the circumstances of murders in the U.S. remain unknown, homicides due to narcotics come in as the second most common circumstance – making them more common than, for example, gang killings. Despite these gruesome facts, the violent crime rate has fallen significantly since 1990, and the United States is much safer than it was in the 1980s and 1990s.
> 
> Knife crime vs cancer: Leading causes of death​The death rate in the U.S. has hovered around the same level since 1990. Heart disease, cancer, and chronic lower respiratory diseases were the three leading causes of death in the country in 2018. The rate of death by cancer is significantly higher than the homicide rate in the United States, at 149.1 deaths per 100,000 population compared to a 6.5 homicides per 100,000. Given just 1,035 murders are caused by knife crime, it is fair to say that cancer is a far bigger killer in the U.S.



But the solution is not making it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns, it's making a stronger deterrent for criminals that use guns. 

Will you join me?  Death penalty for anybody using a firearm in a murder.  All appeals expedited and exhausted in 6 months in undisputed gun homicide cases and to the gurney you go.  

20 years minimum for using a gun in the commission of a robbery.  

10 years minimum for illegally being in possession of a firearm, 15 years minimum if the gun is stolen.


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## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

strollingbones said:


> i wished 2nd adm fans were fans of all the amendments



What amendments are we not fans of?


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## sparky (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Is that so they have the guns to overtake the government if the republicans don't win the House and Senate.


which part of '_well regulated militia_' claims it's after our gub'mit Pene?

~S~


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## DukeU (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> this is ridiculous!!
> I don't blame Biden for getting mad.



Is *biden going to have HIS security stop carrying guns?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Gun ownership U.S. 2021, by party affiliation​Published by Statista Research Department, Dec 1, 2021
> I*n the United States in 2021, 50 percent of Republicans reported that they owned at least one gun,* and 61 percent said that they lived in a household with a gun. *In comparison, only 21 percent of Democrats owned at least one gun, and 31 percent lived a gun household.
> 
> 
> ...



So can somebody driving a car.  What's your point with this?


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## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> shall not be infringed meaning the defense of the state.



The high court disagrees with you.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...



Of course he's mad.  Democrats like yourself hate our Constitution, especially the part about States Rights.  

Yes, my state of Ohio recentlty went concealed carry, and I am against it.  But I was willing to see the results.  So far, no changes.


----------



## DukeU (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Why do murders happen in the U.S.?​While most of the time the circumstances of murders in the U.S. remain unknown, homicides due to narcotics come in as the second most common circumstance – making them more common than, for example, gang killings. Despite these gruesome facts,* the violent crime rate has fallen significantly since 1990, and the United States is much safer than it was in the 1980s and 1990s.*



So, as more guns are added to the population the country has become safer despite manipulated and misleading stats on guns.


----------



## miketx (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


Keep you filthy traitors of locked up.


----------



## miketx (Nov 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Of course he's mad.  Democrats like yourself hate our Constitution, especially the part about States Rights.
> 
> Yes, my state of Ohio recentlty went concealed carry, and I am against it.  But I was willing to see the results.  So far, no changes.


Why are you against it?


----------



## hadit (Nov 27, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> So, in a post above you said there were more than 600 mass shootings this year, now you are saying there have only been 137 since 1982.
> 
> Which is it?


Whichever she wants it to be at any given moment.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

miketx said:


> Why are you against it?



Experience.  I've been to the shooting range before when kids were there.  They think guns are a toy.  One time these two punks were Fn around with a loaded gun and shot a hole into the ceiling.  They were laughing like two little school girls.  Me and my friend grabbed our gear and headed to the furthest booth away from them.  

When you take the time, money, and seriousness of a CCW, you don't get many people like that.  I mean.......if I was in a store that was getting robbed, and didn't have my gun on me, but another customer whipped out his gun, I can be assured they know how to use that weapon and had the same training I did.  Now if that were to happen, I think the only thing on my mind would be those kids shooting holes into a ceiling.  I'd rather take my chances with the criminal.  

Any non-felon can own a gun, but when out in public, I want to make sure they are safe around me.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

DukeU said:


> So, as more guns are added to the population the country has become safer despite manipulated and misleading stats on guns.



You know they'll never draw that line.  Gun crime has been dropping since the early 90's as more and more states adopted CCW laws and formed laws that protect the victim instead of the criminal.


----------



## DukeU (Nov 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Any non-felon can own a gun, but when out in public, I want to make sure they are safe around me.



Don't they have to go through a class to carry concealed?


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

DukeU said:


> Don't they have to go through a class to carry concealed?



Yes, but this spring we got rid of concealed carry and went to constitutional carry which means anybody legally allowed to own a gun can carry without a license.  That's why I said I didn't support it.  These people never had to demonstrate they could shoot a gun, have no training, and probably don't know the laws about when one can use a firearm.  

If they never shot a gun in their life before it makes things worse.  On television they portray a guy with a four inch barrel shooting at another person 200 feet a way and hitting him every time.  They may think they can do what the guys on television do.  But the reality is most of your shots will miss, and the further away from your target, the more missed shots you will have.  

it's kind of scary really.


----------



## Rye Catcher (Nov 27, 2022)

THE UNITED STATES IS NOT CIVILIZED!


----------



## DukeU (Nov 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> Yes, but this spring we got rid of concealed carry and went to constitutional carry which means anybody legally allowed to own a gun can carry without a license. That's why I said I didn't support it. These people never had to demonstrate they could shoot a gun, have no training, and probably don't know the laws about when one can use a firearm.
> 
> If they never shot a gun in their life before it makes things worse. On television they portray a guy with a four inch barrel shooting at another person 200 feet a way and hitting him every time. They may think they can do what the guys on television do. But the reality is most of your shots will miss, and the further away from your target, the more missed shots you will have.
> 
> it's kind of scary really.



If you look back at your previous post, you stated your state went to concealed carry. I think that's where my confusion started.

I understand what you're saying about just anybody carrying guns, it is scary. But, a lot of people already are carrying, and many are doing it illegally. Those are the ones who scare me the most, legal owners, not as much.


----------



## DukeU (Nov 27, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> THE UNITED STATES IS NOT CIVILIZED!



Define "civilized".


----------



## iamwhatiseem (Nov 27, 2022)

Indiana is one of the most lax gun law states in the union.
Yet, if you removed Indianapolis inner city crime - it has a very low crime rate.
Lived here all my life, and virtually never see people walking around with guns. Maybe one dude every few years.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

DukeU said:


> If you look back at your previous post, you stated your state went to concealed carry. I think that's where my confusion started.



I'm sorry, I probably meant to type constitutional carry.  My bad.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


25 states yet only a handful of them have a gun violence issue and out of them they're all because of one city and then down to one segment of society....

Fuck Biden


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> this is ridiculous!!


What’s ridiculous is the hypocrisy of conservatives.

They claim to be ‘advocates’ of “states’ rights” but clearly that’s not the case.

If conservatives were ‘advocates’ of “states’ rights” they’d respect and support the right of states to regulate firearms as they see fit, reflecting the will of the people of the states.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> What’s ridiculous is the hypocrisy of conservatives.
> 
> They claim to be ‘advocates’ of “states’ rights” but clearly that’s not the case.
> 
> If conservatives were ‘advocates’ of “states’ rights” they’d respect and support the right of states to regulate firearms as they see fit, reflecting the will of the people of the states.



That's been happening for years.  As long as they don't violate the US Constitution, they are free to do as they please.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 27, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I don't blame Biden for getting mad.


The problem is that conservatives aren’t just as angry.

And being angry about gun crime and violence don’t mean seeking to ‘ban’ guns; there are measures that can be taking having nothing to do with the regulation of firearms.

But conservatives refuse to explore such measures.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 27, 2022)

strollingbones said:


> i wished 2nd adm fans were fans of all the amendments


True – hence the hypocrisy of the right.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The problem is that conservatives aren’t just as angry.
> 
> And being angry about gun crime and violence don’t mean seeking to ‘ban’ guns; there are measures that can be taking having nothing to do with the regulation of firearms.
> 
> But conservatives refuse to explore such measures.



The liberal solution is to cater to criminals, giving them slaps on the hand, having DA's and prosecutors like Gascon in CA, and then going after law abiding citizens with guns.


----------



## strollingbones (Nov 27, 2022)

supporting all the adm hardly makes me scared...esp of net warriors lol

but good try


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 27, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> That's been happening for years.  As long as they don't violate the US Constitution, they are free to do as they please.


If states have the right to ‘ban’ abortion, then they likewise have the right to regulate firearms as they see fit.

Conservatives can’t have it both ways – that they try is an example of their hypocrisy.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 27, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Well, this hasn't been beat to death in a day or two I suppose.


It’s a perfectly appropriate and legitimate topic. 

That it remains unresolved is the problem; that conservatives refuse to seek a solution is an even bigger problem.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 27, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> If states have the right to ‘ban’ abortion, then they likewise have the right to regulate firearms as they see fit.
> 
> Conservatives can’t have it both ways – that they try is an example of their hypocrisy.



Not hypocrisy at all.  Gun rights are protected by our Constitution.  Abortions are not.  That's why states cannot simply ban firearms.  Before the overturning of Roe states could not totally ban abortions either.  Now that it has been properly corrected, states can do as they please when it comes to abortion.


----------



## strollingbones (Nov 27, 2022)

and they can do as they please with gun control.....


----------



## gipper (Nov 28, 2022)

strollingbones said:


> and they can do as they please with gun control.....


Apparently you’re unaware of how the constitution works.


----------



## CowboyTed (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


This is about allowing people who should have one to openly carry that gun in public...

There is no sane country allows this...

"Only three countries in the world currently have a constitutional right to own a gun: *the US, Mexico, and Guatemala*. Six other countries used to have a constitutional right to bear arms, but they've since repealed those laws"

This is not about right to own a gun... it is about allowing nut jobs to get guns and then have normal people feel they have to get guns to protect themselves from the nut jobs...

*No first world country has gun violence coming even close to US... This whole good guy with a gun has been debunked more than trickle down economics...*


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> THE UNITED STATES IS NOT CIVILIZED!



Translation:  "I'm scared and it's the duty of everybody else to modify their beliefs and behaviors so I no longer have to be scared."


.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> It’s a perfectly appropriate and legitimate topic.
> 
> That it remains unresolved is the problem; that conservatives refuse to seek a solution is an even bigger problem.



Please refer to post #103


.


----------



## j-mac (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> This is about allowing people who should have one to openly carry that gun in public...
> 
> There is no sane country allows this...
> 
> ...


Ted, tell me how disarming legal gun owners will stop gun crime? Do you really think it is the legal owner committing these crimes?


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

j-mac said:


> Ted, tell me how disarming legal gun owners will stop gun crime? Do you really think it is the legal owner committing these crimes?



They NEVER have a rational answer to this one very simple question.


.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

j-mac said:


> Ted, tell me how disarming legal gun owners will stop gun crime? Do you really think it is the legal owner committing these crimes?



 Many times those who shoot up a place is a legal gun owner. 

The guy who shot up the drag show bought his gun legally.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> No first world country has gun violence coming even close to US... This whole good guy with a gun has been debunked more than trickle down economics...



It has?  Is that why most mass shooters choose places where there are no guns are allowed?


----------



## Penelope (Nov 28, 2022)

j-mac said:


> Ted, tell me how disarming legal gun owners will stop gun crime? Do you really think it is the legal owner committing these crimes?


I know they won't be any more mass shooting, after a while, there is not a legal owner.


----------



## gipper (Nov 28, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> They NEVER have a rational answer to this one very simple question.
> 
> 
> .


Their answer is every legal gun owner is a potential mass murderer.  It’s the belief in the old adage, a few bad apples ruin it for all.


----------



## Penelope (Nov 28, 2022)

Ray From Cleveland said:


> It has?  Is that why most mass shooters choose places where there are no guns are allowed?


guns are allowed in red states, thats where mass shooting are plentiful.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> guns are allowed in red states, thats where mass shooting are plentiful.



It seems that it's places like Commifornia that has the problems.  8 dead 32 wounded in Chicago just this weekend.


----------



## sparky (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I know they won't be any more mass shooting, after a while, there is not a legal owner.


your _kidding_, right?

~S~


----------



## j-mac (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Many times those who shoot up a place is a legal gun owner.
> 
> The guy who shot up the drag show bought his gun legally.


No, no, you have one question you haven’t answered…focus.


----------



## Ray From Cleveland (Nov 28, 2022)

sparky said:


> your _kidding_, right?
> 
> ~S~


Nope, they actually believe it.


----------



## Penelope (Nov 28, 2022)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Indiana is one of the most lax gun law states in the union.
> Yet, if you removed Indianapolis inner city crime - it has a very low crime rate.
> Lived here all my life, and virtually never see people walking around with guns. Maybe one dude every few years.


its still high.


----------



## Penelope (Nov 28, 2022)

Remodeling Maidiac said:


> 25 states yet only a handful of them have a gun violence issue and out of them they're all because of one city and then down to one segment of society....
> 
> Fuck Biden


All of them have gun violence.


----------



## Golfing Gator (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> its still high.



How high?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> All of them have gun violence.



As do the other 25


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> All of them have gun violence.


So desperate to alter the stats lol


----------



## Golfing Gator (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> its still high.



How many mass shooting have we had this year as a country?


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

j-mac said:


> No, no, you have one question you haven’t answered…focus.



 Did I say something wrong?


----------



## Penelope (Nov 28, 2022)

sparky said:


> your _kidding_, right?
> 
> ~S~


I said as I said, they won't be any more mass murders as your not allowed to use semi assault weapons or large mags.

The involvement of semi-automatic rifles in mass shootings​Owing to their use in several high-profile mass shootings, there has been much public discussion over suitability or necessity of assault weapons for the purpose of self-defense. While any definition of assault weapon is contentious, semi-automatic rifles are generally the main focus of debates around this issue. Since 1985 there has been a known total 54 mass shootings involving rifles, mostly semi-automatics. This figure is underreported though, as it excludes the multiple semi-automatic (and fully automatic) rifles used in the 2017 Las Vegas Strip massacre – the worst mass shooting in U.S. history, killing 58 and wounding 546.* In fact, semi-automatic rifles were featured in four of the five deadliest mass shootings, being used in the Orlando nightclub massacre, Sandy Hook Elementary massacre and Texas First Baptist Church massacre.








						Guns used in mass shootings U.S. 2022 | Statista
					

Handguns are the most common weapon type used in mass shootings in the United States, with a total of 151 different handguns being used in 103 incidents between 1982 and November 2022.




					www.statista.com
				



*
hand guns as well
*Most are semi-automatic, but some handguns do qualify as automatic weapons*, able to shoot many rounds at once. *A common type of handgun is a semi-automatic pistol*, a small firearm with a single, nonrevolving chamber.Dec 17, 2012

The Gun Glossary - Slate Magazine​


----------



## Penelope (Nov 28, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> How many mass shooting have we had this year as a country?


more than 600 this year.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I said as I said, they won't be any more mass murders as your not allowed to use semi assault weapons or large mags.
> 
> The involvement of semi-automatic rifles in mass shootings​Owing to their use in several high-profile mass shootings, there has been much public discussion over suitability or necessity of assault weapons for the purpose of self-defense. While any definition of assault weapon is contentious, semi-automatic rifles are generally the main focus of debates around this issue. Since 1985 there has been a known total 54 mass shootings involving rifles, mostly semi-automatics. This figure is underreported though, as it excludes the multiple semi-automatic (and fully automatic) rifles used in the 2017 Las Vegas Strip massacre – the worst mass shooting in U.S. history, killing 58 and wounding 546.* In fact, semi-automatic rifles were featured in four of the five deadliest mass shootings, being used in the Orlando nightclub massacre, Sandy Hook Elementary massacre and Texas First Baptist Church massacre.
> 
> ...



"semi assault weapons"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 


.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I said as I said, they won't be any more mass murders as your not allowed to use semi assault weapons or large mags.
> 
> The involvement of semi-automatic rifles in mass shootings​Owing to their use in several high-profile mass shootings, there has been much public discussion over suitability or necessity of assault weapons for the purpose of self-defense. While any definition of assault weapon is contentious, semi-automatic rifles are generally the main focus of debates around this issue. Since 1985 there has been a known total 54 mass shootings involving rifles, mostly semi-automatics. This figure is underreported though, as it excludes the multiple semi-automatic (and fully automatic) rifles used in the 2017 Las Vegas Strip massacre – the worst mass shooting in U.S. history, killing 58 and wounding 546.* In fact, semi-automatic rifles were featured in four of the five deadliest mass shootings, being used in the Orlando nightclub massacre, Sandy Hook Elementary massacre and Texas First Baptist Church massacre.
> 
> ...



 What did the Tsarnaev brothers use?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> more than 600 this year.



Yet in post number 39 you posted this...


*Between 1982 and November 2022, 73 out of the 137 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by white shooters. By comparison, the perpetrator was African American in 21 mass shootings, and Latino in 11. *


----------



## Penelope (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> What did the Tsarnaev brothers use?


Bombs.


----------



## Penelope (Nov 28, 2022)

Golfing Gator said:


> Yet in post number 39 you posted this...
> 
> 
> *Between 1982 and November 2022, 73 out of the 137 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by white shooters. By comparison, the perpetrator was African American in 21 mass shootings, and Latino in 11. *


Your not counting semi assault hand guns.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Your not counting semi assault hand guns.



"semi assault hand guns"      



Keep it up, Killer. This is fun!



.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Bombs.



 Right. Do you see that as preferable?


----------



## Golfing Gator (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Your not counting semi assault hand guns.



It was your post and your link.

Plus, there is no such thing as a semi assault hand gun, you are just putting words together that you do not even know what they mean.


----------



## hjmick (Nov 28, 2022)

Since good old Penelope exhibits her abject ignorance every time she starts a thread of this nature, one has to wonder how her threads can garner so much attention.

Seven pages? Really?


----------



## DBA (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...



Funny, you lefties get so made when gun restrictions are less restrictive but don’t have a problem with cities like Chicago and NYC where the laws all but prohibit anyone from having a gun.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

hjmick said:


> Since good old Penelope exhibits her abject ignorance every time she starts a thread of this nature, one has to wonder how her threads can garner so much attention.
> 
> Seven pages? Really?



Don't try to dissuade killer penny from doing what she's doing.  I get a ton of entertainment out of her stupidity.


.


----------



## hjmick (Nov 28, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Don't try to dissuade killer penny from doing what she's doing.  I get a ton of entertainment out of her stupidity.
> 
> 
> .


----------



## DBA (Nov 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> If states have the right to ‘ban’ abortion, then they likewise have the right to regulate firearms as they see fit.
> 
> Conservatives can’t have it both ways – that they try is an example of their hypocrisy.



The clear difference is that there is no provision in the Constitution giving a blanket right to abortion. You may WANT that to be the case, but it isn’t there.


----------



## DBA (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> This is about allowing people who should have one to openly carry that gun in public...
> 
> There is no sane country allows this...
> 
> ...


We are the greatest and most powerful country in the world because of our Constitution.  Other counties are in a distinct 2nd for a reason.  Maybe you should. choose to emulate winners and not losers.  Just an idea.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot. There are more than 600 mass shooting since the beginning of the year.


So called mass shootings account for 1% or less of all murders.

We have about 15000 homicides annually committed with firearms.

We have 330000000 million people in this country

That works out to each person having a .0045% chance of being murdered by a person with a gun in any given year.


----------



## DBA (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> I said as I said, they won't be any more mass murders as your not allowed to use semi assault weapons or large mags.
> 
> The involvement of semi-automatic rifles in mass shootings​Owing to their use in several high-profile mass shootings, there has been much public discussion over suitability or necessity of assault weapons for the purpose of self-defense. While any definition of assault weapon is contentious, semi-automatic rifles are generally the main focus of debates around this issue. Since 1985 there has been a known total 54 mass shootings involving rifles, mostly semi-automatics. This figure is underreported though, as it excludes the multiple semi-automatic (and fully automatic) rifles used in the 2017 Las Vegas Strip massacre – the worst mass shooting in U.S. history, killing 58 and wounding 546.* In fact, semi-automatic rifles were featured in four of the five deadliest mass shootings, being used in the Orlando nightclub massacre, Sandy Hook Elementary massacre and Texas First Baptist Church massacre.
> 
> ...



You are very ignorant.  Most guns are semi-automatic for ease of use and efficiency.  I bet more people die in cars that are automatic than manual too because there are many more of them. The crap you ignorant people post is just ridiculous. You know *NOTHING* about guns but act as if you are experts.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

DBA said:


> You are very ignorant.  Most guns are semi-automatic for ease of use and efficiency.  I bet more people die in cars that are automatic than manual too because there are many more of them. The crap you ignorant people post is just ridiculous. You know *NOTHING* about guns but act as if you are experts.


Damn, I wish I had bookmarked the post where Penelope told us that she was the smartest poster on this board.  We all got a good laugh out of it.


.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

DBA said:


> You are very ignorant.  Most guns are semi-automatic for ease of use and efficiency.  I bet more people die in cars that are automatic than manual too because there are many more of them. The crap you ignorant people post is just ridiculous. You know *NOTHING* about guns but act as if you are experts.


Ease of use and efficiency…

Those assault weapons are very easy to use and very efficient at killing large numbers of people quickly


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Ease of use and efficiency…
> 
> Those assault weapons are very easy to use and very efficient at killing large numbers of people quickly


A semiautomatic isn't an assault rifle.

It's a commonplace rifle that has been owned by civilians for over a century


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Ease of use and efficiency…
> 
> Those assault weapons are very easy to use and very efficient at killing large numbers of people quickly





Somebody just peed their lacy pink panties.


.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Ease of use and efficiency…
> 
> Those assault weapons are very easy to use and very efficient at killing large numbers of people quickly



 So are explosives.


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Mass shootings in the U.S. by shooter’s by race/ethnicity as of November 2022​Published by Statista Research Department, Nov 24, 2022
> Between 1982 and November 2022, *73 out of the 137 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by white shooters. By comparison, the perpetrator was African American in 21 mass shootings, and Latino in 11.* When calculated as percentages, this amounts to 53 percent, 16 percent, and eight percent respectively.
> 
> 
> ...


Since whites make up 73% of the US population, I find your stat surprising that the rate isn’t a higher percentage.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> So are explosives.


Actually explosives are not easy to use and are very likely to hurt those trying to use them


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Actually explosives are not easy to use and are very likely to hurt those trying to use them



Speak for yourself.


.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Somebody just peed their lacy pink panties.
> 
> 
> .


Tell that to the parents of those 8 year olds killed on Sandy Hook


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Actually explosives are not easy to use and are very likely to hurt those trying to use them



 Because so many mass shooters come out of it alive?


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Speak for yourself.
> 
> 
> .


So you’re an expert in explosives?


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Tell that to the parents of those 8 year olds killed on Sandy Hook



 Are they more dead than the kids Timothy McVeigh killed?


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Because so many mass shooters come out of it alive?


Just trying to ASSEMBLE a bomb is a very hazardous enterprise stupid


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Tell that to the parents of those 8 year olds killed on Sandy Hook



You tell them.  I've personally never met a single one of them and couldn't give a fuck.


.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> So you’re an expert in explosives?



Well, you apparently are.  That's enough explosives experts for one board.


.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Are they more dead than the kids Timothy McVeigh killed?


Nope. But nobody is trying to excuse that right wing terror attack or make it easier for it to happen again


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Just trying to ASSEMBLE a bomb is a very hazardous enterprise stupid


So you’re an expert in explosives?


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> You tell them.  I've personally never met a single one of them and couldn't give a fuck.
> 
> 
> .


“Couldn’t give a fuck”

Exactly


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Just trying to ASSEMBLE a bomb is a very hazardous enterprise stupid



 It's not that difficult. It simply isn't. I grew up in Cleveland years ago when guys were routinely blowing each other up.

 These werent real bright guys.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> “Couldn’t give a fuck”
> 
> Exactly



Okay, whatever you say princess.




.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Papageorgio said:


> So you’re an expert in explosives?


I’m not an expert but I was a combat engineer so I am somewhat experienced .


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> It's not that difficult. It simply isn't. I grew up in Cleveland years ago when guys were routinely blowing each other up.
> 
> These werent real bright guys.


Doesn’t sound like it


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> I’m not an expert but I was a combat engineer so I am somewhat experienced .



Sure you were, princess.

Sure you were.




.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Nope. But nobody is trying to excuse that right wing terror attack or make it easier for it to happen again



 Nothing will stop someone intent on killing from killing.

We seem to only care about the how as opposed to the why.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Okay, whatever you say princess.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unfortunately that is an example of what 
far too many Republicans think


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Nothing will stop someone intent on killing from killing.
> 
> We seem to only care about the how as opposed to the why.


That’s false. It’s not the method so much as it is the “ease and efficiency “ that it can be done


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Unfortunately that is an example of what
> far too many Republicans think

























OK.


















You win.




















.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> A semiautomatic isn't an assault rifle.
> 
> It's a commonplace rifle that has been owned by civilians for over a century


Actually semi auto weapons were not at all “commonplace” until the 80s

Most LEOs didn’t even begin to deploy them regularly until then, and only to keep up with the prevalence of criminals using them.


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Unfortunately that is an example of what
> far too many Republicans think


So Republicans should just take your word for it? I see the Democrats respond the same way when Republicans make such statements but you think only Republicans are the problem? No wonder this country is so divided.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Papageorgio said:


> So Republicans should just take your word for it? I see the Democrats respond the same way when Republicans make such statements but you think only Republicans are the problem? No wonder this country is so divided.


That was some vague Peewee Herman bullshit there Papa


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Tell that to the parents of those 8 year olds killed on Sandy Hook


Yes use a tragedy to takes rights away from people who had absolutely nothing to do with it.


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Actually semi auto weapons were not at all “commonplace” until the 80s
> 
> Most LEOs didn’t even begin to deploy them regularly until then, and only to keep up with the prevalence of criminals using them.


The Browning sold over 500,000 by 1945.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Yes use a tragedy to takes rights away from people who had absolutely nothing to do with it.


Bullshit. You ignore tragedy after tragedy in an attempt to fulfill some idiotic fantasy


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> That’s false. It’s not the method so much as it is the “ease and efficiency “ that it can be done



 The Tsarnaev brothers had no problem. 

Nobody says "well it's easy to kill so I think I will kill today". 

 Was it easy for Adam Lanza? No.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Papageorgio said:


> The Browning sold over 500,000 by 1945.


In 30 years…

Oh


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Actually semi auto weapons were not at all “commonplace” until the 80s
> 
> Most LEOs didn’t even begin to deploy them regularly until then, and only to keep up with the prevalence of criminals using them.


Bullshit

Semiautos have been available to civilians for over 100 years.


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> That was some vague Peewee Herman bullshit there Papa


No Lesh, it is the truth, you just aren’t honest.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> The Tsarnaev brothers had no problem.
> 
> Nobody says "well it's easy to kill so I think I will kill today".
> 
> Was it easy for Adam Lanza? No.


How was it “hard” for Adam Lanza?


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Papageorgio said:


> No Lesh, it is the truth, you just aren’t honest.


It’s not “truth” it’s your biased opinion… about me and about Dems


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> In 30 years…
> 
> Oh


500,000 were in circulation of just that one type of semi-automatic. Semi-automatics were also used extensively in WWI and even more in WWII and were widely available to the consumer.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> How was it “hard” for Adam Lanza?



 He had to first kill his mom and break into her gun supply. 

He planned for years. It would not have been hard for him to have used explosives instead.

 Jeffrey Dahmer didn't need a gun. Gacy didn't need a gun. Bundy didn't need a gun.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Bullshit. You ignore tragedy after tragedy in an attempt to fulfill some idiotic fantasy


Wrong as usual.

I have no gun related fantasies.  Never did.  Unlike you histrionic hand wringers I happen to understand a gun is nothing but a tool and is only as dangerous as the person using it.

A gun is the single best tool for self and home defense and it is more an indictment of this society that we produce people who are so ready and willing to commit mass murfeers than it is on any law abiding gun owner.

Even though it really bothers you we have never held people who obey the law responsible for the bad acts of others.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Papageorgio said:


> The Browning sold over 500,000 by 1945.


As opposed to 24 MILLION  AR-15s and AK style assault weapons in the last 30 years.

3 mill this year


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> It’s not “truth” it’s your biased opinion… about me and about Dems


And your was a biased opinion about Republicans, not truth. Which makes my statement true. Thank you


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> He had to first kill his mom and break into her gun supply.
> 
> He planned for years. It would not have been hard for him to have used explosives instead.
> 
> Jeffrey Dahmer didn't need a gun. Gacy didn't need a gun. Bundy didn't need a gun.


You don’t know what you are talking about.

Do you even know HOW to set off an explosive?

Does the ordinary person?


----------



## Nostra (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


How dare States respect the Constitution!  Pedo Joe and Penelope just can’t have that!


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Papageorgio said:


> And your was a biased opinion about Republicans, not truth. Which makes my statement true. Thank you


So your admitted opinion is “truth” but my opinion is a lie?

Yea …Republicans…


----------



## Nostra (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> *A well-regulated milita,* instead there are a whole bunch of militias.


See that comma?  It means something in English.

It is followed by THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BARE ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.


----------



## Nostra (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot. There are more than 600 mass shooting since the beginning of the year.


You are a liar.  61, not 600, Simp.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> You don’t know what you are talking about.
> 
> Do you even know HOW to set off an explosive?
> 
> Does the ordinary person?



 Fill a bottle with gas, stick a rag in it, light it, throw it.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Wrong as usual.
> 
> I have no gun related fantasies.  Never did.  Unlike you histrionic hand wringers I happen to understand a gun is nothing but a tool and is only as dangerous as the person using it.
> 
> ...


A “gun” need not be an assault rifle to do what you are claiming it is a tool for. A revolver or shotgun make fine self defense weapons


----------



## Nostra (Nov 28, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> The right of the *people* to bear arms shall not be infringed. In subsequent writings the Founding Fathers were clear on the individual right to own firearms.
> 
> "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
> - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
> ...


/thread.

Penelope is thoroughly owned.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Nostra said:


> You are a liar.  61, not 600, Simp.


Over 600 incidences of four people (not including the shooter) being shot in one occurrence. 

Over 3000 people shot and over 600 dead


----------



## Couchpotato (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Mass shootings in the U.S. by shooter’s by race/ethnicity as of November 2022​Published by Statista Research Department, Nov 24, 2022
> Between 1982 and November 2022, *73 out of the 137 mass shootings in the United States were carried out by white shooters. By comparison, the perpetrator was African American in 21 mass shootings, and Latino in 11.* When calculated as percentages, this amounts to 53 percent, 16 percent, and eight percent respectively.
> 
> 
> ...



I thought there were more than 600 just this year.....



Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot. There are more than 600 mass shooting since the beginning of the year.


----------



## Nostra (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> The 13 original states were *New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia*. The 13 original states were the first 13 British colonies. British colonists traveled across the Atlantic Ocean from Europe.
> There were 13 original states. Name three.​There were 13 state then, now they are 25 that don't give a gun permit.


100% of the first 13 had no gun permits, or restrictions on what you could own.


----------



## Nostra (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Over 600 incidences of four people (not including the shooter) being shot in one occurrence.
> 
> Over 3000 people shot and over 600 dead


600 is a lie.


----------



## Couchpotato (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Over 600 incidences of four people (not including the shooter) being shot in one occurrence.
> 
> Over 3000 people shot and over 600 dead


The FBI definition of a mass shooing is 3 people dead not shot.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Fill a bottle with gas, stick a rag in it, light it, throw it.


And very likely burn yourself to a crisp.

Was that what little Timmy McVeigh used?

Was that what the Tzarnov brothers used?

In fact can you point to a mass casualty event where Molotov cocktails were the weapon of choice?

Dope


----------



## Couchpotato (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> A “gun” need not be an assault rifle to do what you are claiming it is a tool for. A revolver or shotgun make fine self defense weapons


Define "assault rifle".


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> This is ridiculous!!


You hate freedom.
We don't care.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> And very likely burn yourself to a crisp.


 
 Most understand they will not live out the day. Their goal is not to.




Lesh said:


> Was that what little Timmy McVeigh used?
> 
> Was that what the Tzarnov brothers used?
> 
> ...



 If you remove one way to kill (which you can't anyway) they will use another.

 They do not kill because there are guns, they kill because they want to kill.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> *A well-regulated milita,* instead there are a whole bunch of militias.


This has nothing to do with the right to keep and bear arms as protected by the constitution.
You know this, of course.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Papageorgio said:


> 500,000 were in circulation of just that one type of semi-automatic. Semi-automatics were also used extensively in WWI and even more in WWII and were widely available to the consumer.


False. They were not “widely available”

Obviously


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> A “gun” need not be an assault rifle to do what you are claiming it is a tool for. A revolver or shotgun make fine self defense weapons


No such thing as an "assault" rifle.  

And I prefer a Glock over a revolver.

Why are you stuck in the 1800's?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot.


The freedom inherent in a free society means people can commit mass murder .
Nothing you can do about it.
Except to take away the freedoms inherent to that free society.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Most understand they will not live out the day. Their goal is not to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And they do it on such a grand scale when it only takes a trip to the stores and a finger twitch

Why you want to make that as easy as possible is beyond understanding


----------



## Couchpotato (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> False. They were not “widely available”
> 
> Obviously


Link?  Do you have something that backs up your claim that people couldnt buy semi automatic rifles post WW2?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> There were 13 state then, now they are 25 that don't give a gun permit.


Winning!


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> And they do it on such a grand scale when it only takes a trip to the stores and a finger twitch
> 
> Why you want to make that as easy as possible is beyond understanding



 I want to address the problem. 

 Why.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Bullshit. You ignore tragedy after tragedy in an attempt to fulfill some idiotic fantasy


And you stand on the bodies and bathe in the blood of dead children to push your mindless agenda.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> No such thing as an "assault" rifle.
> 
> And I prefer a Glock over a revolver.
> 
> Why are you stuck in the 1800's?


What you “prefer” is not the issue.

Some people might “prefer” a Thompson or a BAR

If self defense is really the reason for having a gun, a double action revolver or a shotgun will do that


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> False. They were not “widely available”
> 
> Obviously


Of course they were.

The first semiauto rifle for the civilian market was produced on 1906.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> How was it “hard” for Adam Lanza?


Adam Lanza murdered his mother and stole her guns.
What law would have prevented him from doing so?


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> I want to address the problem.
> 
> Why.


Really? It doesn’t sound like you do.

What do you see as the problem and how would you address it?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> What you “prefer” is not the issue.
> Some people might “prefer” a Thompson or a BAR
> If self defense is really the reason for having a gun, a double action revolver or a shotgun will do that


This is not “truth”  - it’s your biased opinion.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Of course they were.
> 
> The first semiauto rifle for the civilian market was produced on 1906.


That doesn’t make them “widely available” and they weren’t.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> As opposed to 24 MILLION  AR-15s and AK style assault weapons in the last 30 years.


Probably more.
Illustrating the futility of banning them.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> What you “prefer” is not the issue.
> 
> Some people might “prefer” a Thompson or a BAR
> 
> If self defense is really the reason for having a gun, a double action revolver or a shotgun will do that


You have no power to tell other people what they have to use for self defense weapons and that keeps you up at night doesn't it?

I will not carry a revolver because they are harder to conceal than any other handgun that I own.  They lack firepower and reloads take too much time.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Couchpotato said:


> Link?  Do you have something that backs up your claim that people couldnt buy semi automatic rifles post WW2?


That was never my claim. 

They were not widely available and were not widely used

In fact LE we’re using revolvers and shotguns into the 1980s


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> You have no power to tell other people what they have to use for self defense weapons and that keeps you up at night doesn't it?
> 
> I will not carry a revolver because they are harder to conceal than any other handgun that I own.  They lack firepower and reloads take too much time.


We do indeed have that power. Do you need examples?


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> That doesn’t make them “widely available” and they weren’t.


Anyone could buy them therefore they were available.

They were a very popular product from day one.

Just because in 1906 there wasn't the distribution networks we have now may have slowed down the roll out in no way means these guns were not available across the country


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> A “gun” need not be an assault rifle to do what you are claiming it is a tool for.


Similarly every mass shooting in the US, save one, committed with an "assault rifle" - as you incorrectly use the term - could have been equally perpetrated with a pump-action shotgun.
Again, illustrating the futility of banning 'assault weapons'.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> You have no power to tell other people what they have to use for self defense weapons and that keeps you up at night doesn't it?
> 
> I will not carry a revolver because they are harder to conceal than any other handgun that I own.  They lack firepower and reloads take too much time.


They do NOT lack firepower.

And the fact that reloads take longer is exactly the point.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Over 600 incidences of four people (not including the shooter) being shot in one occurrence.
> Over 3000 people shot and over 600 dead


The average mass shooting results in less than 1 death?


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> We do indeed have that power. Do you need examples?


No you don't.

The semiautomatic pistol and rifle are considered  commonplace weapons and you will never have them banned in this country.

So you can take your dreams of controlling other people and shove it


----------



## Couchpotato (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> That was never my claim.
> 
> They were not widely available and were not widely used
> 
> In fact LE wee using revolvers and shotguns into the 1980s


People not purchasing them and them not and them not being available are 2 different things.  

LE need for better weapons has little to nothing to do with law abiding citizens owning guns.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> That doesn’t make them “widely available” and they weren’t.


They were available to anyone who wanted one.
No questions asked.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> We do indeed have that power.


The Constitution says otherwise.
"All bearable arms".


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> So your admitted opinion is “truth” but my opinion is a lie?
> 
> Yea …Republicans…


Yours is an opinion because you see it only one way and is politically biased, I see both Democrats and Republicans playing the same game just refusing to see their own BS like you fail to do. It is a fact because you confirmed it in your answer.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> They do NOT lack firepower.
> 
> And the fact that reloads take longer is exactly the point.


Of course they do

A concealable revolver useless when it comes to stopping power.

I can easily conceal a 10mm or a .45 caliber handgun where a revolver of that caliber would be much more difficult to conceal and the snub-nosed designs are shit for accuracy


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> No you don't.
> 
> The semiautomatic pistol and rifle are considered  commonplace weapons and you will never have them banned in this country.
> 
> So you can take your dreams of controlling other people and shove it


Nice side step. You know there are limits in place as to what guns you can own


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Papageorgio said:


> Yours is an opinion because you see it only one way and is politically biased, I see both Democrats and Republicans playing the same game just refusing to see their own BS like you fail to do. It is a fact because you confirmed it in your answer.


Save you bogus both sides bullshit. We’ve read your posts


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Nice side step. You know there are limits in place as to what guns you can own


What limit is there on "all bearable arms"?


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> The Constitution says otherwise.
> "All bearable arms".


Are you having a fever dream? The Constitution does not say that


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Nice side step. You know there are limits in place as to what guns you can own


No there aren't really.

I can own a fully automatic firearm if I choose.

And you cannot arbitrarily ban any commonplace firearm.

It seems you're the one with the fantasies here


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> What limit is there on "all bearable arms"?


Do you deny that there are limits on what guns you can own?


----------



## Papageorgio (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Save you bogus both sides bullshit. We’ve read your posts


You have read them and you don’t understand, you lied, I told the truth and the reason you lied is because of the bigoted two party system that cannot a.low you your own free thought.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Are you having a fever dream? The Constitution does not say that








						Supreme Court: Second Amendment Protects all Bearable Arms! - Freedom Outpost
					

In the first case before the Supreme Court following Justice Antonin Scalia’s untimely and mysterious death, the court threw out the decision of a Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court regarding the state’s claim that stun guns are not protected under the Second Amendment. However, in the court...



					investortimes.com
				




_Referring to its landmark 2008 ruling on handguns in the home, the justices said the Second Amendment applies “to all instruments that constitute bearable arms,” even those not in existence at the time of the founding._


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Do you deny that there are limits on what guns you can own?


Like I said anyone who can legally own a firearm can own a fully automatic firearm if they want to.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Are you having a fever dream? The Constitution does not say that


The USSC did - and thus, that's what the Constitution says.
You understand its opinion, not your is what matters.
Right?
So:
"All bearable arms".


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Do you deny that there are limits on what guns you can own?


The constitution protects the right to own and use 'all bearable arms".
YOU claim there is some limit on the firearms we can own and use.
So, I ask again:
What limit is there on "all bearable arms"?


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Really? It doesn’t sound like you do.
> 
> What do you see as the problem and how would you address it?



 A huge issue is mental illnesses. Millions still can not affordably access the mental health care they need.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> A huge issue is mental illnesses. Millions still can not affordably access the mental health care they need.


So let’s make sure those mentally Ill people have the most deadly weapons available?

Horse shit


----------



## BrokeLoser (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> A huge issue is mental illnesses. Millions still can not affordably access the mental health care they need.


Hold on a minute….we provide free healthcare for wealthy Mexican illegals but not our own mentally ill people…is that what you’re saying?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> So let’s make sure those mentally Ill people have the most deadly weapons available?
> Horse shit


So., let'smake it harder for those who are not mentally ill to exercise their rights.
Horse shit.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> The constitution protects the right to own and use 'all bearable arms".
> YOU claim there is some limit on the firearms we can own and use.
> So, I ask again:
> What limit is there on "all bearable arms"?


I said there are limits on what guns you can own.

Parsing won’t change that. 

You can not own a machine gun made after 1987 for example… and oh by the way… that’s a bearable arm.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> So let’s make sure those mentally Ill people have the most deadly weapons available?
> 
> Horse shit



 Nothing you can do to stop it. Nothing.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

BrokeLoser said:


> Hold on a minute….we provide free healthcare for wealthy Mexican illegals but not our own mentally ill people…is that what you’re saying?



 I have no information on us doing that so I really have no need to comment on it.


----------



## marvin martian (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...



Good to see fully half the country supporting our civil rights. You Nazis are living on borrowed time.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> I said there are limits on what guns you can own.


And i asked you:
What limit is there on "all bearable arms"?      
Well?


Lesh said:


> You can not own a machine gun made after 1987 for example… and oh by the way… that’s a bearable arm.


The fact you cannot register these guns does not demonstrate some limit to "bearable arms" as this prohibition has not been tested under current jurisprodence.
BUT....
I am glad to see you agree that machine guns, including thse not registered before May 1986, are "bearable arms" as the term is used in the 2A.
As such, why do you believe the prohibition on registering said "bearable arms" will survive a court challenge?
Why do you believe the registration of ANY "bearable arm"  will survive  a court challenge?


----------



## BrokeLoser (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> I have no information on us doing that so I really have no need to comment on it.


Like “I’m not a biologist so I can’t define woman.”


----------



## Nostra (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> What you “prefer” is not the issue.
> 
> Some people might “prefer” a Thompson or a BAR
> 
> If self defense is really the reason for having a gun, a double action revolver or a shotgun will do that


You don’t get to decide how others exercise their Constitutional rights, Simp.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> This is about allowing people who should have one to openly carry that gun in public...


No.  Its about concealed carry w/o a permit.


CowboyTed said:


> There is no sane country allows this...


Your opinion doesn't matter.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> What’s ridiculous is the hypocrisy of conservatives.
> They claim to be ‘advocates’ of “states’ rights” but clearly that’s not the case.


How is it you do not underatnd states do not have the right to violate the constitution?
Your complaint fails as a false equivelance fallacy.


----------



## jc456 (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


why are politicians allowed to have armed security?


----------



## jc456 (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> There is no sane country allows this...


why are politicians allowed to have armed security then?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> If states have the right to ‘ban’ abortion, then they likewise have the right to regulate firearms as they see fit.


This also fails as a false equivelance fallacy, as the right to keep and bear arms is protected by the constitution, but the right to an abortion is not.


----------



## Nostra (Nov 28, 2022)

Since the Colorado Springs shooter was “non-binary” we should pass a law banning gun ownership for anyone who doesn’t know if they are male of female.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot.


Because the crazy person is going to go through the permitting process?


----------



## jc456 (Nov 28, 2022)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Because the crazy person is going to go through the permitting process?


Some actually do!!!  Still waiting for how a demofk will use their crystal ball to find the crazies who are normal today?


----------



## OKTexas (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...




A bad guy goes away because of a good guy with equal or greater firepower. Would you have preferred the good guy wasn't armed? This is what is call a defensive gun use (DGU), you know the thing you commies say never happens. You should be happy the good guy saved lives.

.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

OKTexas said:


> Would you have preferred the good guy wasn't armed?


Yes.  She would.


----------



## marvin martian (Nov 28, 2022)

jc456 said:


> Some actually do!!!  Still waiting for how a demofk will use their crystal ball to find the crazies who are normal today?



Like most DemoKKKrat policies, they want to use racial, ethnic, and political profiling to target anyone who thinks differently from them.


----------



## jc456 (Nov 28, 2022)

marvin martian said:


> Like most DemoKKKrat policies, they want to use racial, ethnic, and political profiling to target anyone who thinks differently from them.


so they can think differently than me and be armed?


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Nothing you can do to stop it. Nothing.


So you propose a problem for which you say there is no solution.

Go away


----------



## marvin martian (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> So you propose a problem for which you say there is no solution.
> 
> Go away



The problem is Nazis like you who attack our civil rights. And there _is _a solution for that.


----------



## pknopp (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> So you propose a problem for which you say there is no solution.
> 
> Go away



 You understand what I was saying.


----------



## CowboyTed (Nov 28, 2022)

j-mac said:


> Ted, tell me how disarming legal gun owners will stop gun crime? Do you really think it is the legal owner committing these crimes?


I didn't say that...

But having no checks on gun ownership is basically allowing anyone to get a gun... This is neglect, this effectively allowing people who are mentally unstable to be armed..

People who want weak & non universal background checks are the ones responsible when mentally unstable person goes shooting a place up... You have to take responsibility because you want super fast access and next to no inconvenience a parent has to bury there child.
Innocent people suffer due to that inconsiderate approach...

Please stop with the Good guy with a gun crap, it has been highly debunked as not as effective as proper background checks ad responsible gun ownership... No where else in 1st world are you allowed to carry a gun on the streets with out a letter from your doctor saying you are not fucking nuts...

GOP just want to arm mentally ill... There neglect is now wilful...


----------



## jc456 (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> But having no checks on gun ownership is basically allowing anyone to get a gun... This is neglect, this effectively allowing people who are mentally unstable to be armed..


that's indeed fake news and a fking half right there asshat.  Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the country and guess what it leads in?   pssst........gun deaths.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> I didn't say that...
> 
> But having no checks on gun ownership is basically allowing anyone to get a gun... This is neglect, this effectively allowing people who are mentally unstable to be armed..
> 
> ...


there are already background checks retard, anyone buying from a licensed dealer must have one that is FEDERAL Law.


----------



## jc456 (Nov 28, 2022)

RetiredGySgt said:


> there are already background checks retard, anyone buying from a licensed dealer must have one that is FEDERAL Law.


Ted must live in the boonies where no information ever reaches him is the only thing I can come up with for his post.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> I didn't say that...
> 
> But having no checks on gun ownership is basically allowing anyone to get a gun...


We have checks on gun ownership;.


CowboyTed said:


> This is neglect, this effectively allowing people who are mentally unstable to be armed..


it is illegal for the mentally ill to possess a firearm.


CowboyTed said:


> People who want weak & non universal background checks are the ones responsible when mentally unstable person goes shooting a place up...


This is a lie.


CowboyTed said:


> Please stop with the Good guy with a gun crap, it has been highly debunked as not as effective as proper background checks ad responsible gun ownership.


You cannot demonstrate this to be true.


CowboyTed said:


> . No where else in 1st world are you allowed to carry a gun on the streets with out a letter from your doctor saying you are not fucking nuts...


Sucks to be them.


----------



## Rye Catcher (Nov 28, 2022)

j-mac said:


> Ted, tell me how disarming legal gun owners will stop gun crime? Do you really think it is the legal owner committing these crimes?





			Crime 2022
		







						Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality
					






					www.cdc.gov
				












						The Economic Cost of Gun Violence
					

In an average year, gun violence in America kills 40,000 people, wounds nearly twice as many, and costs our nation $557 billion.




					everytownresearch.org
				




Does it matter when the person who uses a firearm to murder or wound another person has a criminal record or not?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Does it matter when the person who uses a firearm to murder or wound another person has a criminal record or not?


And thus...
You cannot tell us how disarming legal gun owners will stop gun crime.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...




Biden didn't get mad....he simply repeated what that nice lady Jill told him to say...you idiot.

To defend your stupid thoughts on this subject, you would have to explain how it is that as more Americans owned and carried guns for 27 years, the gun murder rate went down 49%, the gun crime rate went down 75%

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
======


*Also.......gun murder rates haven't increased..................*

*The gun murder and gun suicide rates in the U.S. both remain below their peak levels. There were 6.2 gun murders per 100,000 people in 2020, below the rate of 7.2 recorded in 1974.* 


What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

*What changed in 2015?*

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild.  This attack on the police since 2015, has led to a lack of proactive police work, massive levels of police retirements and leaving the force....all across the country.

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot. There are more than 600 mass shooting since the beginning of the year.




There are not 600 mass public shootings...

What is it...the Borg Queen of the democrat party puts out that lie and you idiots all get the signal and start sqawking it over and over?

US mass shootings, 1982–2022: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases. 
-------


Here is a description of the criteria we use:

The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.)* Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).*
Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
----------------------
Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.



---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...



US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2021...6
2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017:  11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Crime 2022
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It does when the democrat party takes a convicted gun criminal, and releases them over and over again.    These are the criminals doing 95% of all the gun crime and gun murder in this country, and the democrat party keeps releasing them no matter how many times they commit felonies with guns....

Why do the democrats keep releasing these criminals?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> I didn't say that...
> 
> But having no checks on gun ownership is basically allowing anyone to get a gun... This is neglect, this effectively allowing people who are mentally unstable to be armed..
> 
> ...




No......the ones responsible for the gun murder in democrat party controlled cities.....where almost all of the gun murder actually happens....are the democrats....

In 2021 there were 6 mass public shootings......6 people out of over 350 million Americans.

Total killed?

43.

Nuts with guns are not the problem...

Deer kill 200 people a year.

Ladders kill 300 people a year.

Bathtubs kill 350 people a year...

Cars kill over 40,000 people a year.

Gun murder in the U.S. in 2019......from the FBI...

10,258

expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

So nuts with guns..... 43 killed in 2021....only 5 killed in 2020......

So of all the gun murder in the U.S.....nuts with guns are the tiniest number....while criminals in democrat party controlled cities kill each other in the 10 thousand level..........and the majority of the victims are criminals, not innocent people.....


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Crime 2022
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The economic cost savings when AMericans use guns to stop violent criminals......

600 million guns in private hands......over 22.01 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across the United States: 2022



American use those legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, stabbings, beatings, robberies, and murders, as well as also stopping mass public shootings when they are allowed to have their legal guns with them...



Gun deaths...the truth....





Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners.





Lives saved....based on research?  By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct





 *that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—*



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 _trillion_ per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

*I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.*

*When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”*

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns



A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)




2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..*

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 28, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Crime 2022
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lets try to guess the cost......shall we......?

Europe, between 1939-1945 murdered 15 million innocent men, women and children....after they first registered guns, then banned and confiscated them. Not war dead.....or combat collateral damage...these were people rounded up by their governments and the german socialists and murdered....

In the United States, gun murder number for the entire 246 year history of the country?   

Around 2,460,000......the vast majority of the victims are criminals murdered by criminals, not innocent human beings.

Can you tell us which part of the world murdered more people?

Guns in the hands of normal people save lives...


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Nov 28, 2022)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Shall not be infringed. Did you read the article you posted ? Good guy with a gun stopped a shooting from being worse. Unless you are pissed that a law abiding citizen exercised his Constitutional right and stopped a mass killer ? Wouldn't surprise me.


/----/ If good guys with guns stop mass killers, then gun grabbing democRATs won't have another tragedy to exploit. DUHHHH


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /----/ If good guys with guns stop mass killers, then gun grabbing democRATs won't have another tragedy to exploit. DUHHHH


W/o the bodies of dead children to stand on, anti-gun loons know they will never enact their mindless agenda.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

And here you are trying to ignore and minimize those deaths as if they are of no consequence


----------



## DBA (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Ease of use and efficiency…
> 
> Those assault weapons are very easy to use and very efficient at killing large numbers of people quickly



Right, I mean why on earth would you want a gun that is easier to use to protect yourself?  We should promote the use musket loaders.  You guys are uber ignorant.


----------



## DBA (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> That’s false. It’s not the method so much as it is the “ease and efficiency “ that it can be done



Yes, you want a gun to actually do its job of personal protection. I can't think of many tools that I would prefer NOT to be easy and efficient.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

DBA said:


> Yes, you want a gun to actually do its job of personal protection. I can't think of many tools that I would prefer NOT to be easy and efficient.


You really need that easily used and efficient mass murder tool to be readily available


----------



## DBA (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> I didn't say that...
> 
> But having no checks on gun ownership is basically allowing anyone to get a gun... This is neglect, this effectively allowing people who are mentally unstable to be armed..
> 
> ...



Do you know how difficult it is to get a CWP in NYC?  It goes far beyond mental fitness. What Democrats want is to be able to add restrictions that make gun ownership virtually unattainable to law-abiding citizens. Criminals couldn't care less if they have a CWP or not.


----------



## DBA (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> You really need that easily used and efficient mass murder tool to be readily available



I am not a mass murderer and want my guns to be easy and efficient.  Weird huh?


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> And here you are trying to ignore and minimize those deaths as if they are of no consequence


And here you are, standing on the bodies and bathng in the blood of dead children as a means - the only means you have -  to advance your mindless agenda.

"All bearable arms".


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> You really need that easily used and efficient mass murder tool to be readily available


Tell me you don't have a meaningful response without telling me you don't have a meaningful response.

"All bearable arms"


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> I said there are limits on what guns you can own.


And I asked you:
What limit is there on "all bearable arms"?      
Well?


Lesh said:


> You can not own a machine gun made after 1987 for example… and oh by the way… that’s a bearable arm.


The fact you cannot _register _these guns does not demonstrate some limit to "bearable arms" as this prohibition has not been tested under current jurisprudence.
BUT....
I am glad to see you agree that machine guns, including those not registered before May 1986, are "bearable arms" as the term is used in the 2A.
As such, why do you believe the prohibition on registering said "bearable arms" will survive a court challenge?
Why do you believe the registration of ANY "bearable arm"  will survive  a court challenge?


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

DBA said:


> I am not a mass murderer and want my guns to be easy and efficient.  Weird huh?


If you knew that having to switch from semi auto “defense weapons “ to other kinds of guns would result in one less mass murder of kids… would you do it?

I suspect not


----------



## j-mac (Nov 28, 2022)

pknopp said:


> Did I say something wrong?


Just answer the question. Why the dodging?


----------



## j-mac (Nov 28, 2022)

CowboyTed said:


> I didn't say that...
> 
> But having no checks on gun ownership is basically allowing anyone to get a gun... This is neglect, this effectively allowing people who are mentally unstable to be armed..
> 
> ...


That’s not true, and you know it…This is why no one wants conversation with you loons, you make shit up constantly…


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> If you knew that having to switch from semi auto “defense weapons “ to other kinds of guns would result in one less mass murder of kids… would you do it?
> I suspect not



How many kids have to die before I give up my 'assault weapons'
-All- of them.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> How many kids have to die before I give up my 'assault weapons'
> -All- of them.


There ya go folks

Gun nutter Republicans being honest for once


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> There ya go folks
> Gun nutter Republicans being honest for once



I've always been honest about not being swayed by fallacious appeals to emotion.
Because...  it's a fallacy.
And it's the only means you have to advance your mindless agenda.


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

M14 Shooter said:


> I've always been honest about not being swayed by fallacious appeals to emotion.
> Because...  it's a fallacy.
> And it's the only means you have to advance your mindless agenda.


Yea. Who cares if kids get blown apart in classrooms?

Not you


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 28, 2022)

Penelope said:


> this is ridiculous!!
> I don't blame Biden for getting mad.


That damn democracy stuff!


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> If you knew that having to switch from semi auto “defense weapons “ to other kinds of guns would result in one less mass murder of kids… would you do it?
> 
> I suspect not


Sure I would do it.  But, it won't, therefore I won't give up shit.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Yea. Who cares if kids get blown apart in classrooms?
> Not you


It does not matter how many times you present your fallacious appeals to emotion - they will never, ever sway a rational, reasoned person


----------



## Lesh (Nov 28, 2022)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> Sure I would do it.  But, it won't, therefore I won't give up shit.


At least shooter was honest.

And it would


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2022)

Lesh said:


> And it would


^^^
A lie


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 29, 2022)

Lesh said:


> At least shooter was honest.
> 
> And it would


Not what you asked, though.  Is it?


----------



## DBA (Nov 29, 2022)

Lesh said:


> If you knew that having to switch from semi auto “defense weapons “ to other kinds of guns would result in one less mass murder of kids… would you do it?
> 
> I suspect not



If I could snap my fingers and all guns, including semi-autos, would disappear from the earth along with the ability for them to every be made again, I would do so and yes that would most certainly lead to no gun deaths. The thing is, I live in reality, not a utopian fantasy world where most liberals reside. Semi-auto weapons are NOT going anywhere no matter what laws you pass.


----------



## Rye Catcher (Nov 29, 2022)

RetiredGySgt said:


> there are already background checks retard, anyone buying from a licensed dealer must have one that is FEDERAL Law.


And there are other sources to buy/obtain firearms.  How about anyone who has in their possession a firearm not registered to them is a felony.  The prison sentence would be shorter if the person who sold them or gave the person was indicted on a felony too.


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 29, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> And there are other sources to buy/obtain firearms.  How about anyone who has in their possession a firearm not registered to them is a felony.  The prison sentence would be shorter if the person who sold them or gave the person was indicted on a felony too.



Funny how you want to persecute law abiding gun owners for mere possession of a gun, yet you support the political party, the democrats, who keep releasing violent gun felons over and over again.

How about we simply arrest people who commit crimes?  How about we start there....and we hold them in jail until their trial, and then if they are convicted we send them to prison.

How about we start there, and stop creating laws simply created to ensnare normal people with red tape......?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 29, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Yea. Who cares if kids get blown apart in classrooms?
> 
> Not you




School shootings over 57 years.

13

Total killed?

146

*Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, mass public shootings, including school shootings, and the mere fact that Americans own guns prevents the whole sale mass murder of our citizens by our government.*
*
Those are real numbers......they are facts.  

The problem here is that three very differently defined terms are being used somewhat incautiously and interchangeably: school shooting, mass shooting, and mass school shooting. Uvalde was a mass school shooting; the 26 previous tragedies at schools this year were not.
---
 Many of the 26 previous shootings involved disputes between students in parking lots, or after athletic events, and all of them resulted in one or zero deaths. These deaths are still incredibly tragic, of course. But they are fundamentally unlike what happened in Uvalde.
Uvalde is a mass school shooting. This is defined in different ways too: an incident in which at least four people (some counters make it three) are shot and/or killed. The Gun Violence Archive counts incidents in which at least four people were shot. Under this definition, many incidents of street crime and domestic violence count as mass shootings, even if no deaths result. A stricter tally of mass school shootings, conductedby criminologists for Scientific American, only includes incidents where the shootings resulted in at least four deaths. Using their criteria, the number of mass school shootings in the U.S. since the year 1966 is 13. These crimes claimed the lives of 146 people in total.*



There Have Been 13 Mass School Shootings Since 1966, Not 27 This Year


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 29, 2022)

Lesh said:


> Yea. Who cares if kids get blown apart in classrooms?
> 
> Not you




Europeans began banning and confiscating guns in the 1920s.  By 1939, the German socialists began the mass murder of 15 million men, women and children...not war dead, not collateral from the war.....innocent human beings rounded up by the socialists in the countries they controlled........countries that forced their people to surrender their guns.

15 million people murdered in just 6 years......after they were promised that giving up their guns would make them safer.

In the United States.....the total number of people murdered by gun in our entire, 246 year history?

About 2,460,000

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Keep in mind....Americans with guns stopped the German socialists.........


----------



## Lesh (Nov 29, 2022)

2aguy said:


> School shootings over 57 years.
> 
> 13
> 
> ...


So you purse out mass shooting in schools that kill three or less children , completely ignoring all the others whose bodies were blown apart by bullets.

You try to pretend that the mass shootings that occurred in schools are somehow the only ones that matter… completely ignoring the mass shootings that take place in mall, stores, concerts, night clubs and other places.

Any other dishonest excuses you want to make?

And no, lack of guns was not the reason for the Holocaust


----------



## Rye Catcher (Nov 29, 2022)

Lesh said:


> So you purse out mass shooting in schools that kill three or less children , completely ignoring all the others whose bodies were blown apart by bullets.
> 
> You try to pretend that the mass shootings that occurred in schools are somehow the only ones that matter… completely ignoring the mass shootings that take place in mall, stores, concerts, night clubs and other places.
> 
> ...


I won't bother to respond to 2aguy.  In fact, I won't read his posts anymore.  The reason being, this guy has a fetish for firearms and lacks empathy for the kids who are slaughtered in classrooms.


----------



## Peace (Nov 29, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Think about, they don't even have a permit.  If a crazy gets a gun, you might get shot. There are more than 600 mass shooting since the beginning of the year.


How many in Chicago and California?


----------



## Rye Catcher (Nov 29, 2022)

Peace said:


> How many in Chicago and California?








						Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality
					






					www.cdc.gov
				












						The Economic Cost of Gun Violence
					

In an average year, gun violence in America kills 40,000 people, wounds nearly twice as many, and costs our nation $557 billion.




					everytownresearch.org


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 29, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> I won't bother to respond to 2aguy.  In fact, I won't read his posts anymore.  The reason being, this guy has a fetish for firearms and lacks empathy for the kids who are slaughtered in classrooms.


what you really mean is you cannot answer his stats with anything approaching reality so will just ignore them.


----------



## Peace (Nov 29, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Still fix your State before crying about the laws of another state.

Until you can change the Constitution you have limited power of what can be done but Police State individuals like you who would abuse their power of authority ignore the crime within your State with all the laws you have and focus on other States for some reason.

Daily someone is killed in Chicago by Gin violence and the same for California, so why have your laws failed so badly?


----------



## 2aguy (Nov 29, 2022)

Lesh said:


> So you purse out mass shooting in schools that kill three or less children , completely ignoring all the others whose bodies were blown apart by bullets.
> 
> You try to pretend that the mass shootings that occurred in schools are somehow the only ones that matter… completely ignoring the mass shootings that take place in mall, stores, concerts, night clubs and other places.
> 
> ...



Nope….. you guys exploit the rarest of rare events to take guns away from law abiding people….people who use  those guns to save lives every single year.

I also notice you ignored the 15 million men, women and children murdered by their governments in just 6 years……more people murdered than our entire 246 year history if gun murder.

You hate guns…..you dont care about government murder….or rape, robbery, murder, beatings and stabbings…

You are irrational and nuts


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 29, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> I won't bother to respond to 2aguy.  In fact, I won't read his posts anymore.  The reason being, this guy has a fetish for firearms and lacks empathy for the kids who are slaughtered in classrooms.


How does owning guns imply a lack of empathy?
How does acknowledging the fact that no gun owner is responsible for any crimes committed by others imply a lack of empathy.


----------



## Blues Man (Nov 29, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Suicide isn't violence.


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## M14 Shooter (Nov 29, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> And there are other sources to buy/obtain firearms.  How about anyone who has in their possession a firearm not registered to them is a felony.


"No."
-USSC


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 29, 2022)

Lesh said:


> So you purse out mass shooting in schools that kill three or less children , completely ignoring all the others whose bodies were blown apart by bullets.


Oh look.
Another attempt by the (D)ishonest to prey on the emotions of the ignorant.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Nov 29, 2022)

Rye Catcher said:


> I won't bother to respond to 2aguy.  In fact, I won't read his posts anymore.  The reason being, this guy has a fetish for firearms and lacks empathy for the kids who are slaughtered in classrooms.


Yeah!!  
STAND on those bodies!!  BATHE in that blood!!!!
SHOUT your fallacuous appeals to emotion for EVERYPONE to hear!!!

You will not convince a single rational, reasoned person to support your position.


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## miketx (Jan 2, 2023)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


Criminal loving whore.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jan 3, 2023)

High gun carrying in public = High gun incident stats


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> High gun carrying in public = High gun incident stats


LOL wrong as usual


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> High gun carrying in public = High gun incident stats


.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jan 3, 2023)

RetiredGySgt said:


> LOL wrong as usual





			Gun Deaths by Country 2023


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> Gun Deaths by Country 2023


.



What a pretty map of someone's prediction of gun deaths by country for the year that hasn't happened yet, unless you count two days as a year.

Now we know you're making shit up.




.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> High gun carrying in public = High gun incident stats


/------/ Uhhhh  NO.
​


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> Gun Deaths by Country 2023


/-----/ Explain why cities with the toughest gun laws have the highest murder rates.








						The Top 10 Cities for Mass Shootings: All of Them are Run by the Democratic Party
					

(Kyle Becker) The American news media reports every “mass shooting” that fits its political narrative. But a check of the statistics for mass shootings shows that overwhelming majority are committed in Democrat-run cities, including those with strict gun control laws and “gun-free zones.”




					stillnessinthestorm.com


----------



## hadit (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> High gun carrying in public = High gun incident stats


We've always had guns readily available. Kids used to take shooting classes in school. No one thought of taking those guns and shooting up the place. They would bring guns with them to school and hunt on the way home. Again, no one thought of taking those guns and shooting up the place. You could order guns from the Sears catalog and have them sent through the mail to your house.

What changed? Not the guns.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jan 3, 2023)

hadit said:


> We've always had guns readily available. Kids used to take shooting classes in school. No one thought of taking those guns and shooting up the place. They would bring guns with them to school and hunt on the way home. Again, no one thought of taking those guns and shooting up the place. You could order guns from the Sears catalog and have them sent through the mail to your house.
> 
> What changed? Not the guns.


.


You're right.  It's not the guns.

In my little conservative Midwest farming town, which is pretty much the 21sy century equivalent of Mayberry, the high school boys (and hopefully the girls as well) join rifle and trap club.  The web site for our local gun range proudly displays photos of the different shooting groups for our local youth and women.

And yes, during hunting season, the kids carry their shotguns and rifles in gun racks in their trucks and nobody ever goes crazy when they see a gun in a student's truck parked in the school parking lot.

My town is clean, quiet and perfectly safe.  The presence of the sheriff's deputies is very reliable.  I see a sheriff's car driving an hourly patrol any time I happen to be looking out the window at a quarter past the hour.  It's not unusual to see a post from the sheriff's office on our town's Facebook group when someone in town sees a stranger who looks like they don't belong here.

My town has changed little since I grew up in this part of the country, many decades ago.  The people who live in the city are the ones who have changed, but it's gratifying to realize that the pace of that change in the population center nearest to me is not nearly as precipitous as the pace of the changes in the large dem run cities.  If we decided to secede from the nation now, the changes that need to be made would hardly be noticed.  A few people would find life in my state intolerable and they'd move.

It's not the guns.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Jan 3, 2023)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> .
> 
> 
> You're right.  It's not the guns.
> ...


/——/ I understand. I grew up in a small southern town in the 1950s and 60s, then I moved to NY.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jan 3, 2023)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /——/ I understand. I grew up in a small southern town in the 1950s and 60s, then I moved to NY.


.   

I love it here.

I can depend on my neighbors here, and they are learning that they can depend on me.


.


----------



## Papageorgio (Jan 3, 2023)

Penelope said:


> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,* the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.*
> https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/#:~:text=A well regulated Militia, being,Arms, shall not be infringed.
> U.S. Constitution - Second Amendment | Library of Congress​https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/#:~:text=A well regulated Militia, being,Arms, shall not be infringed.
> 
> The state is well regulated, we have a NG.



So the government gets to give guns to the a militia that swears to obey the government In the manner they determine to see fit? Seems like if that is what was intended the American Revolution would never of happened. Is that your take?


----------



## The Duke (Jan 3, 2023)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> .
> 
> 
> You're right.  It's not the guns.
> ...


Sounds like when I was growing up.
People were mad when the announcement came over the intercom "You can now have have only 2 guns in your vehicle in the parking lot". Everybody was mad because they were making 4-slot gun racks in shop class.
The guns might have been different, but every one of those gun racks was from the same template and had been for years.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Jan 3, 2023)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> .
> 
> I love it here.
> 
> ...


/——/ I moved because of the lack of opportunities in my small town.


----------



## 2aguy (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> High gun carrying in public = High gun incident stats



Wrong, you doofus……









						Bloodless Streets: Maine's Crime Rate Fell After Constitutional Carry Became Law - The Truth About Guns
					

&#9664Previous Post Next Post Coming Soon...▶ When Maine began allowing eligible residents to carry concealed firearms without a government license in 2015, gun control advocates warned that Wild West-style gun violence would erupt across the state. Instead, the opposite has happened. In fact...




					www.thetruthaboutguns.com


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## 2aguy (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> Gun Deaths by Country 2023



Europe…..

in 6 years they murdered 15 million people….

you have to add that number to your total…dumb ass

In the entire 246 year history of gun murder in the U.S.

2,460,000

Get back to us when our gun murder rate gets close to the rate of murder by European governments….


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> High gun carrying in public = High gun incident stats


No it doesn't.


----------



## jc456 (Jan 3, 2023)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> No it doesn't.


I'm thinking he's being facetious


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jan 3, 2023)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /——/ I moved because of the lack of opportunities in my small town.


.



Sorry



.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jan 3, 2023)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> No it doesn't.


It does, your policy is more guns and America is pretty high up on gun incident chart.


----------



## Blues Man (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> It does, your policy is more guns and America is pretty high up on gun incident chart.


The policy is that people have the FREEDOM to own firearms if the so CHOOSE.

But you will never be able to understand that given your brainwashing to make you kiss the king's ass


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jan 3, 2023)

Blues Man said:


> The policy is that people have the FREEDOM to own firearms if the so CHOOSE.
> 
> But you will never be able to understand that given your brainwashing to make you kiss the king's ass


It's obvious you still haven't grasped the gun issue, and fuck all knowledge on UK gun laws.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Penelope said:


> The state is well regulated, we have a NG.


The USSC discarded your argument 2 decades ago.
You choose to be wrong.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jan 3, 2023)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...





			Gun Deaths by Country 2023
		


List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia 

Gun Deaths by Country 2022 - World Populace 

This is how countries compare on gun deaths 









						Comparing Gun Deaths by Country: The U.S. Is in a Different World (Published 2016)
					

In most advanced countries, gun homicides are as rare as deaths from falling tree limbs or plane crashes.




					www.nytimes.com
				




If you need any more links, just ask


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> Gun Deaths by Country 2023
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.




WHOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jan 3, 2023)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> WHOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Go on the Wikipedia link and sort the table on the total. Please report back on where America stands in the chart.

Any idiot in America has a gun, and........oh hang on........there lies a problem from the start.


----------



## OhPleaseJustQuit (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> Go on the Wikipedia link and sort the table on the total. Please report back on where America stands in the chart.
> 
> Any idiot in America has a gun, and........oh hang on........there lies a problem from the start.


.






If you say so, pixie.










.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> Go on the Wikipedia link and sort the table on the total. Please report back on where America stands in the chart.
> 
> Any idiot in America has a gun, and........oh hang on........there lies a problem from the start.


We are not bloody subjects beholding to the King and Government, we are free people. I realize since you have never had freedom you don't understand it but, in this country, we have rights protected FROM the Government. You have none anything your government wants to do they can if they have the votes. And you just accept that like a dutiful serf.


----------



## Cellblock2429 (Jan 3, 2023)

2aguy said:


> Wrong, you doofus……
> 
> 
> 
> ...


/---/ Gun Grabbers like Caveman will ignore the facts and come back in a few days with the same ant-gun rants. You have to wonder what their real motivation is.


----------



## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Cellblock2429 said:


> /---/ Gun Grabbers like Caveman will ignore the facts and come back in a few days with the same ant-gun rants. You have to wonder what their real motivation is.


He likes to fish from slow-moving boats.
It's the only means he has to self-validate his existence.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> It does, your policy is more guns and America is pretty high up on gun incident chart.


And for nearly 20 years the murders went down, while gun ownership went up.

The only thing that changed since the change in murder numbers started are the anti-police policies enacted by Democrats.


----------



## miketx (Jan 3, 2023)

Penelope said:


> View attachment 731415
> ​Which States Allow the Permitless Carry of Guns?​CARRY LAWS​by Katharina Buchholz,
> Aug 2, 2022
> 
> ...


Come get mine communist.


----------



## miketx (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> It does, your policy is more guns and America is pretty high up on gun incident chart.


Stop letting violent criminals go free, liar.


----------



## 2aguy (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> It does, your policy is more guns and America is pretty high up on gun incident chart.




The European policy of no guns for citizens put you pretty high up on the government mass murder and genocide chart.....in modern times....not during the Middle Ages.....after 1917.......

15 million innocent men, women and children murdered in just 6 years after you took away guns.....

How do you explain that?

That is more people than all the criminals murdered with guns in the U.S. in our entire 246 year history.....that being about 2,460,000

You murdered more people than we have....yet you think you are superior......how is that possible?


----------



## 2aguy (Jan 3, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> Gun Deaths by Country 2023
> 
> 
> 
> ...




List of countries by murder number.....

Europe...

15 million innocent men, women and children in just 6 years.......1939-1945....

Gun murder in the U.S. for the entire 246 year history...... 2,460,000

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Meanwhile,  each year about 175,000 people's lives are saved by armed citizens in the U.S.......each year......

Lives saved....based on research?  By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct





* that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—*



Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





*So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.


Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns
*


----------



## hadit (Jan 4, 2023)

Wild Bill Kelsoe said:


> And for nearly 20 years the murders went down, while gun ownership went up.
> 
> The only thing that changed since the change in murder numbers started are the anti-police policies enacted by Democrats.


Not only that, but we've had guns readily available for centuries and only have had problems with nutcases shooting up schools and nightclubs for a few decades. What changed? Not the guns, that's for sure.


----------



## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Jan 4, 2023)

hadit said:


> Not only that, but we've had guns readily available for centuries and only have had problems with nutcases shooting up schools and nightclubs for a few decades. What changed? Not the guns, that's for sure.


The media and the government are the best promoters of school shootings there are.  They keep planting the idea in the minds of nutjobs all over the country.


----------



## Blues Man (Jan 4, 2023)

Captain Caveman said:


> It's obvious you still haven't grasped the gun issue, and fuck all knowledge on UK gun laws.


There is no gun issue.

There is a FREEDOM issue which you will never be able to comprehend


----------

