# Palestine Before Israel - Maps



## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7_ib_9tkSM]Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube[/ame]


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

Bogus maps.  

Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis 


> The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites.  But, Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria
> 
> The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]


 
Cambridge University Press 


> In Ottoman times [400 years duration, prior to World War I], no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
> Palestine Boundaries 18331947 - Cambridge Archive Editions


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## dilloduck (Dec 13, 2011)

Ok---We will pretend that all those people there aren't real and don't deserve any place to live or any human rights. 
Y'all need to give up this strawman.


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

Fakestinians 

*Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen* 


> The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen


 
*Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi, Italian Muslim Assembly * 


> I believe that "Palestinian identity" is something completely artificial: it was forged as a propagandistic tool against Israel. The strange fact is that, at least here in Europe, I have never heard an Arab from the Land of Israel ("Palestine") say: "I am Palestinian."
> 
> Please remember that the so-called hero of "Palestinian independence," the pro-Nazi Grand Mufti of British Mandate Palestine, Haj Amin al-Husseini, never claimed that "Palestinians" are to be an independent people: all of his official declarations state that "Palestine must be recognized as a integral part of Syria."
> http://www.freeman.org/m_online/aug98/palazzi.htm


 
*Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, University of Paris * 


> No one had heard of a Palestinian people  before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries--Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq--attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
> http://www.dreuz.info/2011/08/the-war-against-israel-goes-on-by-guy-milliere/


 
Fakestinian History 

* Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Jewish and Middle East History *  


> On August 18 Yasir Arafat, speaking as head of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza and Jericho, told Arab youngsters at a summer camp, "Those of you who lit the intifada fire must now act as defenders of this young state, whose capital is Jerusalem. It is Bir Salem [the fountain of Salem]. Salem was one of the Canaanite Kings, one of our forefathers. This city is the capital of our children and our children's children. If not for this belief and conviction of the Palestinian nation, this people would have been erased from the face of the earth, as were so many other nations."
> 
> *King Salem is a newcomer on the historical scene. No such Canaanite, Jebusite or Philistine king is known to history *


 
Fakestinian Messiahs.  Did you know Jesus Christ, the Jewish rabbi who taught from the Torah and observed Passover in the Jerusalem Temple, was REALLY a muslime fakestinian? 

 



> We&#8217;re talking about an ongoing chain [of prophets of the Islam], from Adam to Muhammad. It&#8217;s an ongoing chain, representing the call for monotheism, and the mission of Islam&#8230; The prophets were all of the same religion [Islam]&#8230; Jesus was born in this land. He lived in this land. It is known that he was born in Bethlehem&#8230; He also lived in Nazereth, moved to Jerusalem. So he was a Palestinian par excellence&#8230;We respect Jesus, we believe in him [as a Muslim prophet], just as we believe in the prophet Muhammad."


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine Before Israel



Can you find "Palestine" in the New Testament?  No, I didn't think so.  It doesn't exist  It's a bogus word.  

Israel is referenced 2000 times in the Bible.  Jesus was King of Israel, not Palestine 



> Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, &#8220;Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.&#8221;





> Samuel 13:1: Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty two years


*Jesus was King of Israel, not "Palestine"  *



> John 12:12-13  The next day the great crowd that had come for the Feast heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. They took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.





> John 1:49: Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."


*Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel * John 12 Commentary - Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel - BibleGateway.com 


> Passover was one of the three feasts that Jews were supposed to attend in Jerusalem, and consequently the population of Jerusalem swelled enormously at this time. As this great crowd is beginning to gather from around Israel and the larger world of the diaspora, news about Jesus is spreading, and people are wondering whether he will come to the feast. On Sunday, the day after the party in Bethany at which Mary anointed Jesus, news arrives that Jesus is on his way to Jerusalem, and a crowd of pilgrims, presumably those who had been wondering if he would come, goes out to meet him. Mary's private expression of emotion is now matched by the crowd's public outpouring of enthusiasm.
> 
> They shout Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!. These are lines from one of the Psalms of Ascents sung as a welcome to pilgrims coming up to Jerusalem. As such, this is an entirely appropriate thing to do as Jesus is coming up to Jerusalem. The cry of Hosanna! is a Hebrew word (hoshi`ah-na) that had become a greeting or shout of praise but that actually meant "Save!" or "Help!". The cry of Hosanna! and the palm branches are in themselves somewhat ambiguous, but their import is made clear as the crowd adds a further line, Blessed is the King of Israel! (v. 13). Clearly they see in Jesus the answer to their nationalistic, messianic hopes. Earlier a crowd had wanted to make Jesus king (6:15), and now this crowd is recognizing him as king in the city of the great King. Here is the great dream of a Davidic ruler who would come and liberate Israel, establishing peace and subduing the Gentiles (cf. Psalms of Solomon 17:21-25).
> 
> ...


.


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## dilloduck (Dec 13, 2011)

spam ?   all you got is spam ??


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

dilloduck said:


> spam ?   all you got is spam ??



Dildo, show us where "Palestine" is in the New Testament


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## destroythedome (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube



You all waste so much time and energy arqueing over who was there first ( its so easy even a caveman knows he was there first) the point is Israel is there now and palestinians have two choices fight for it or take what Israel offers.  Crying about how the poor misunderstood palestinians should have a land of their own wont make it so.


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

destroythedome said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube
> ...



Palestinians: Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

destroythedome said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube
> ...



Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...


> By Arabs bypassing the Biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews.  This line of argument isaccompanied by the common practice in Arab countries, in textbook, museums and exhibitions of minimizing the Jewish role in ancient history or, more frequently, presenting it in very negative terms.
> 
> In terms of scholarship as distinct from politics, there is no evidence whatsoever for the assertion that the Canaanites were Arabs.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

destroythedome said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube
> ...



Good points. The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country like Hamas wants to do. The majority of Palestinians are not ready to surrender.

It is Israel that attacked and occupied Palestine and after a hundred years Israel has not won yet.


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> destroythedome said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Since the Romans renamed Israel "Palestina," that would make Jews "Palestinians"

Indeed, Jews were Palestiniains during the British Mandate.



> A "Palestinian" can mean a person who is born in the geographical area known prior to 1918 as "Palestine", or a former citizen of the British Mandate territory called Palestine, or an institution related to either of these. Using this definition, both Palestinian Arabs and Palestinian Jews were called "Palestinians".
> 
> Before the establishment of the State of Israel, the meaning of the word "Palestinian" didn't discriminate on ethnic grounds, but rather referred to anything associated with the region. The local newspaper, founded in 1932 by Gershon Agron was called The Palestine Post. In 1950, its name was changed to The Jerusalem Post.
> 
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

> Since the Romans renamed Israel "Palestina," that would make Jews "Palestinians"
> 
> Indeed, Jews were Palestiniains during the British Mandate.



Yes, there are Palestinian Jews.


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

Cambridge University Press


> In Ottoman times [400 years duration, prior to World War I], no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
> Palestine Boundaries 18331947 - Cambridge Archive Editions



Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...


> It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history.  They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places.  It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others.  Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.
> 
> All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books.  For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

> Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained *subject to repeated change* and a source of bitter dispute.



Interesting. Name one change to Palestine's borders since they were defined in 1922.


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> > Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained *subject to repeated change* and a source of bitter dispute.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Name one change to Palestine's borders since they were defined in 1922.



Israel, not Palestine.  

*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen,  Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *...


> *The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure.  Its result was not:  [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.* *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory.  And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*Augustine and the Jews: A Christian ... - Paula Fredriksen - Google Books



*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. L. Michael White, Ph.D. and Master of Divinity Degrees from Yale University *....


> Responses to the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem
> 
> The Roman destruction of Jerusalem sent shock waves through the Jewish population.  The loss of life was devastating, but the destruction of Jerusalem and especially the Temple was even more devastating.
> 
> ...


Israel appears in the Bible 2000+ times.  Palestine, not once.



> Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, &#8220;Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.&#8221;





> Samuel 13:1: Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty two years


*Jesus was King of Israel, not "Palestine"  *

*Jesus Christ, King of Israel *...


> John 12:12-13  The next day the great crowd that had come for the Feast heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. They took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.





> John 1:49: Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."


*Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel * John 12 Commentary - Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel - BibleGateway.com 


> Passover was one of the three feasts that Jews were supposed to attend in Jerusalem, and consequently the population of Jerusalem swelled enormously at this time. As this great crowd is beginning to gather from around Israel and the larger world of the diaspora, news about Jesus is spreading, and people are wondering whether he will come to the feast. On Sunday, the day after the party in Bethany at which Mary anointed Jesus, news arrives that Jesus is on his way to Jerusalem, and a crowd of pilgrims, presumably those who had been wondering if he would come, goes out to meet him. Mary's private expression of emotion is now matched by the crowd's public outpouring of enthusiasm.
> They shout Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!. These are lines from one of the Psalms of Ascents sung as a welcome to pilgrims coming up to Jerusalem. As such, this is an entirely appropriate thing to do as Jesus is coming up to Jerusalem. The cry of Hosanna! is a Hebrew word (hoshi`ah-na) that had become a greeting or shout of praise but that actually meant "Save!" or "Help!". The cry of Hosanna! and the palm branches are in themselves somewhat ambiguous, but their import is made clear as the crowd adds a further line, Blessed is the King of Israel! (v. 13). Clearly they see in Jesus the answer to their nationalistic, messianic hopes. Earlier a crowd had wanted to make Jesus king (6:15), and now this crowd is recognizing him as king in the city of the great King. Here is the great dream of a Davidic ruler who would come and liberate Israel, establishing peace and subduing the Gentiles (cf. Psalms of Solomon 17:21-25).
> 
> John the Baptist's witness to Israel (1:31) finds its initial response in the confession of Nathanael, a true Israelite (1:47), when Nathanael confesses Jesus to be the Son of God, the King of Israel (1:49). Nathanael stands in marked contrast to Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel (3:10), who is unable to understand earthly things, let alone heavenly things. So the first three chapters are characterized by a concern with the initial witness to Israel, and this motif now finds its fullness in this crowd's acclamation of Jesus as the King of Israel. Jesus is indeed King of Israel, and this motif now comes to the fore as the story nears its end   His kingdom, however, far transcends Israel's boundaries. "What honor was it to the Lord to be King of Israel? What great thing was it to the King of eternity to become the King of men?".
> ...


.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

> Israel, not Palestine.



BTW, where is that 1948 map of Israel?


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

Israel, not Palestine

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...


> The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

Does Bernard Lewis have a 1948 map of Israel?


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

Israel, not Palestine

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...


> The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel





> The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites.  But, Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria
> 
> The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]



*Cambridge University Press: The World of Ancient Israel *The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel - Academic and Professional Books - Cambridge University Press


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

> Israel, not Palestine



Cool, then you can post a 1948 map of Israel.


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## Iridescence (Dec 13, 2011)

So, JStone... Please continue on and tell us why they cannot spread apart and find an acceptable co-existancy? You seem to be tapped into so much more than many of us.


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> > Israel, not Palestine
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, then you can post a 1948 map of Israel.



Can you post a 1948 map of Egypt?


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > > Israel, not Palestine
> ...



Sure.







Now where is that 1948 map of Israel?


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You make that "map" on your computer, Scooter?


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

And here is a 1948 map of Palestine.






Now where is that 1948 map of Israel?


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> And here is a 1948 map of Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Er, Scooter, "Palestine" doesn't exist.  Make another fake map of Egypt in 1948 on your computer, Scooter.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

It seems you are having trouble showing that Israel exists.

where is that 1948 map of Israel?


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> It seems you are having trouble showing that Israel exists.
> 
> where is that 1948 map of Israel?



No map of Egypt from 1948, Scooter?  And, a fake map of "Palestine" that doesn't exist? .  

Egypt has been in existence for 5000 years, Scooter.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

How about a 1944 map of Palestine?






But still no map of Israel.


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> How about a 1944 map of Palestine?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Palestine doesn't exist, Scooter.  The map is bogus.  

Now, where is that 1948 map of Egypt?  Egypt exists, right, Scooter?


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

And 1946.






Where oh where is the 1948 map of Israel?


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> And 1946.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yet another bogus map of the fictional "Palestine," Scooter?  Einstein said doing the same thing over and over hoping for different results is the sign of insanity 

Now, where is that 1948 map of Egypt, Scooter?  Or, does Egypt not really exist, after all?


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

1947






Find any map of Israel yet?


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> 1947
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Another bogus map of the fictional "Palestine" invented by the British, Scooter? You're officially insane under Einstein's definition 

Now, where is that map of Egypt in 1948, Scooter?  Maybe, Egypt doesn't really exist.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

Lots of maps of Palestine.

None for Israel.


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Lots of maps of Palestine.
> 
> None for Israel.



Correction, Scooter: Bogus "maps" of fictional "Palestine" invented by the British.

Do you wanna inform the Egyptians that Egypt doesn't exist because you couldn't locate a 1948 map of Egypt, Scooter?


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

Do you wanna inform Israel that it is not on the map?


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> > Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained *subject to repeated change* and a source of bitter dispute.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. Name one change to Palestine's borders since they were defined in 1922.



Still nothing on any changes in Palestine's borders.

Still no map of Israel.


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > > Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained *subject to repeated change* and a source of bitter dispute.
> ...



Israel, not Palestine, Scooter.

*Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis*...


> The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites.  But, Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria
> 
> The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]


 
*Pulitzer Prize-Winning Writer Charles Krauthammer...*


> Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store.


 
*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it&#8217;s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it&#8217;s own right; it asserted it&#8217;s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel...
> PBS - Heritage



*University of Chicago Oriental Institute---Empires in the Fertile Crescent: : Israel, Ancient Assyria, and Anatolia*


> Visitors will get a rare look at one of the most important geographic regions in the ancient Near East beginning January 29 with the opening of "Empires in the Fertile Crescent: Ancient Assyria, Anatolia and Israel," the newest galleries at the Museum of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago.
> 
> The galleries showcase artifacts that illustrate the power of these ancient civilizations, including sculptural representations of tributes demanded by kings of ancient Assyria, and some sources of continual fascination, such as a fragment of the Dead Sea Scrolls--one of the few examples in the United States.
> 
> ...


 
*Harvard Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel*


> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth. B.C.E.
> The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum


 
*University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology: Canaan and Ancient Israel *


> The first major North American exhibition dedicated to the archaeology of ancient Israel and neighboring lands, "Canaan and Ancient Israel" features more than 350 rare artifacts from about 3,000 to 586 B.C.E., excavated by University of Pennsylvania Museum archaeologists in Israel,
> Artcom Museums Tour: University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology, Philadelphia PA


 
*Yale Law School Faculty Scholarship Series: Ancient Land Law in Israel, Mesopotamia, Egypt*


> This Article provides an overview of the land regimes that the peoples of Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Israel created by law and custom between 3000 B.C. and 500 B.C
> 
> A look at land regimes in the earliest periods of human history can illuminate debate over the extent to which human institutions can be expected to vary from time to time and place to place.
> "Ancient Land Law: Mesopotamia, Egypt, Israel" by Robert C. Ellickson and Charles DiA. Thorland


 
*Yale University Press: Education in Ancient Israel*


> In this groundbreaking new book, distinguished biblical scholar James L. Crenshaw investigates both the pragmatic hows and the philosophical whys of education in ancient Israel and its surroundings. Asking questions as basic as "Who were the teachers and students and from what segment of Israelite society did they come?" and "How did instructors interest young people in the things they had to say?" Crenshaw explores the institutions and practices of education in ancient Israel. The results are often surprising and more complicated than one would expect.
> Education in Ancient Israel - Crenshaw, James L - Yale University Press


 
*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel*


> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.
> The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press


 
*Cambridge University Press: The World of Ancient Israel *
The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel - Academic and Professional Books - Cambridge University Press

*Cambridge University Press: Wisdom in Ancient Israel*
Wisdom in Ancient Israel - Academic and Professional Books - Cambridge University Press in Ancient Israel/?site_locale=en_GB

*PBS Nova *...


> In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele.  Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.
> 
> The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago
> 
> Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

All of that blabber and still nothing on any changes in Palestine's borders.

 Still no map of Israel.


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## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> All of that blabber and still nothing on any changes in Palestine's borders.
> 
> Still no map of Israel.



Palestine is a fabricated word the Romans called Israel to erase 1000 years of Jewish nationhood in Israel.  Last time I checked, there was no longer a Roman Empire.

*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen,  Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *...


> *The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure.  Its result was not:  [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.* *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory.  And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*Augustine and the Jews: A Christian ... - Paula Fredriksen - Google Books


 
*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. L. Michael White, Ph.D. and Master of Divinity Degrees from Yale University *....


> Responses to the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem
> 
> The Roman destruction of Jerusalem sent shock waves through the Jewish population.  The loss of life was devastating, but the destruction of Jerusalem and especially the Temple was even more devastating.
> 
> ...


 
*Dr. Michael Coogan, Eminent Biblical Scholar, PhD, Harvard University, Professor Emeritus of Religious Studies at Stonehill College and Director of Publications for the Harvard Semitic Museum. Author of, "The Oxford History of the Biblical World" * 


> The Jewish revolt [against the Romans] had many causes.  Anti-Roman nationalistic unrest and militant messianic sentiments were key factors, as probably was the confiscation of Jewish land by the Roman government in the aftermath of the First Jewish Revolt.
> 
> *In the aftermath of the revolt, the Roman government changed the name of the province from Judea to Syria Palaestina.  Jerusalem was tranformed into the Roman city of Aelia Capitolina*
> Oxford University Press: The Oxford History of the Biblical World: Michael D. Coogan


 
*Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis *


> Official Roman usage of the name Palestine to designate the area of the former Jewish kingdom seems to date from after the Jewish risings and their suppression.
> 
> *The Emperor Hadrian made a determined attempt to stamp out the embers not only of the revolt but of Jewish nationhood and statehood.  The ruined city of Jerusalem was rebuilt in AD 135 as a Roman colony with a new name, Aelia Capitolina, in honour of the Emperor, whose full name was Titus Aelius Hadrianus, and of the gods of the Roman Capitol.
> 
> It would seem that the name Judaea was abolished at the same time as Jerusalem and the country renamed Palestina or Syria-Palestina with the same intention to obliterate its historic Jewish identity.*


 
*University of Southern California *History


> Rome conquered Jerusalem in 70 A.D. ending the national independence gained during the Jewish War (66-70 A.D.). Despite being under Roman control, much of the land in Judea was still in Jewish hands; the Jews were neither exiled nor enslaved. Seventy years after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, the Jews in Judea began a war against the Roman Empire. The war lasted for three years from late summer A.D. 132 through late autumn A.D. 135. The war was led by Shimon ben (or Bar) Kosiba, who became known as Bar Kokhba or Son of the Star.
> 
> The emperor Hadrian found himself forced to deal with this serious Jewish threat to the Roman Empire. His Pax Romana was threatened by the Jewish War. Hadrian sent armies to Judea, but did not find victory against Bar Kokhbas guerillas. The turning point in the war came when Hadrian called in one of his best generals, Julius Severus, to fight exclusively on the Jewish front. Severus slowly closed in around Bar Kokhbaand without outside help from the Jewish Diaspora which Bar Kokhba was counting onwas able to defeat the Jewish revolt.
> 
> *As punishment, the Jews were driven from Jerusalem and the gentiles moved in. The city was called Aelia Capitolina and was a pagan citybuilt on the ruins of Jerusalem. The province was renamed from Judea to Syria-Palaestina to further remove the Jews from their land. Practicing Judaism was outlawed and scholars who supported to rebellion were executed. Soon after the defeat of Bar Kokhba, Hadrian died and Antoninus Pius ascended the throne. Jews slowly regained their cultural and religious freedoms back *


 
*Brown University *


> The Bar Kokhba revolt occurred between the years of 132-135 CE. The Jews of the land of Judea (despite the fact that today there is more evidence that the revolt went beyond the boundaries of Judea), rose against the Roman Empire. This revolt is generally considered as "a continuation of the uprisings of the Jews of the Diaspora against Romein 115-117 C.E." Although its main causes are contested, one thing is certain: external political factors and internal issues among the Jews played key roles in the unraveling of the revolt and its consequences
> 
> *According to the account by [Roman historian] Eusebius... "The construction of a pagan temple and Hadrian's decision to change the name of Judea to Syria Palestina were both punishment..." *
> https://wiki.brown.edu/confluence/display/Spring07JS0053S01/Bar+Kokhba+Revolt.


 
*WNET/PBS, Educational Television: Teaching Heritage*


> As has been true throughout history, the location of Judea was pivotal in the story of its [Jewish] people.  When Judea rose in revolt against the brilliant and ruthless Roman emperor Hadrian in 132-135 under the leadership of Simeon Bar Kokhba..., it made a horrific mistake.
> 
> *Following Hadrian's murderous crushing of the rebellion...Hadrian deprived Judea even of its name.  He researched the name of the ancestral enemies of the Jews, the Philistines, and renamed the entire country "Palestine," the Latin version of Philistia.  Its vanquished and twice-destroyed capital Jerusalem he renamed "Aelia Capitolina," after the name of his family and of his patron god, Jupiter Capitolina.*http://www.thirteen.org/edonline/teachingheritage/lessons/faculty/unit3/unit3-atlas.pdf


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

More blabber, no map.


----------



## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> More blabber, no map.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

Funny.

Why nothing on any changes in Palestine's borders?

Why no map?


----------



## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Funny.
> 
> Why nothing on any changes in Palestine's borders?
> 
> Why no map?



Israel, not Palestine. The Roman Empire renamed Israel "Palestina" to erase 1000 years of Jewish nationhood in Israel.  The Roman Empire is no more.  

*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen,  Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *...


> *The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure.  Its result was not:  [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.* *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory.  And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*Augustine and the Jews: A Christian ... - Paula Fredriksen - Google Books


 
*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. L. Michael White, Ph.D. and Master of Divinity Degrees from Yale University *....


> Responses to the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem
> 
> The Roman destruction of Jerusalem sent shock waves through the Jewish population.  The loss of life was devastating, but the destruction of Jerusalem and especially the Temple was even more devastating.
> 
> ...


 
*Dr. Michael Coogan, Eminent Biblical Scholar, PhD, Harvard University, Professor Emeritus of Religious Studies at Stonehill College and Director of Publications for the Harvard Semitic Museum. Author of, "The Oxford History of the Biblical World" * 


> The Jewish revolt [against the Romans] had many causes.  Anti-Roman nationalistic unrest and militant messianic sentiments were key factors, as probably was the confiscation of Jewish land by the Roman government in the aftermath of the First Jewish Revolt.
> 
> *In the aftermath of the revolt, the Roman government changed the name of the province from Judea to Syria Palaestina.  Jerusalem was tranformed into the Roman city of Aelia Capitolina*
> Oxford University Press: The Oxford History of the Biblical World: Michael D. Coogan


 
*Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis *


> Official Roman usage of the name Palestine to designate the area of the former Jewish kingdom seems to date from after the Jewish risings and their suppression.
> 
> *The Emperor Hadrian made a determined attempt to stamp out the embers not only of the revolt but of Jewish nationhood and statehood.  The ruined city of Jerusalem was rebuilt in AD 135 as a Roman colony with a new name, Aelia Capitolina, in honour of the Emperor, whose full name was Titus Aelius Hadrianus, and of the gods of the Roman Capitol.
> 
> It would seem that the name Judaea was abolished at the same time as Jerusalem and the country renamed Palestina or Syria-Palestina with the same intention to obliterate its historic Jewish identity.*


 
*University of Southern California *History


> Rome conquered Jerusalem in 70 A.D. ending the national independence gained during the Jewish War (66-70 A.D.). Despite being under Roman control, much of the land in Judea was still in Jewish hands; the Jews were neither exiled nor enslaved. Seventy years after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, the Jews in Judea began a war against the Roman Empire. The war lasted for three years from late summer A.D. 132 through late autumn A.D. 135. The war was led by Shim&#8217;on ben (or Bar) Kosiba, who became known as &#8220;Bar Kokhba&#8221; or &#8220;Son of the Star.&#8221;
> 
> The emperor Hadrian found himself forced to deal with this serious Jewish threat to the Roman Empire. His Pax Romana was threatened by the Jewish War. Hadrian sent armies to Judea, but did not find victory against Bar Kokhba&#8217;s guerillas. The turning point in the war came when Hadrian called in one of his best generals, Julius Severus, to fight exclusively on the Jewish front. Severus slowly closed in around Bar Kokhba&#8212;and without outside help from the Jewish Diaspora which Bar Kokhba was counting on&#8212;was able to defeat the Jewish revolt.
> 
> *As punishment, the Jews were driven from Jerusalem and the gentiles moved in. The city was called Aelia Capitolina and was a pagan city&#8212;built on the ruins of Jerusalem. The province was renamed from Judea to Syria-Palaestina to further remove the Jews from their land. Practicing Judaism was outlawed and scholars who supported to rebellion were executed. Soon after the defeat of Bar Kokhba, Hadrian died and Antoninus Pius ascended the throne. Jews slowly regained their cultural and religious freedoms back *


 
*Brown University *


> The Bar Kokhba revolt occurred between the years of 132-135 CE. The Jews of the land of Judea (despite the fact that today there is more evidence that the revolt went beyond the boundaries of Judea), rose against the Roman Empire. This revolt is generally considered as "a continuation of the uprisings of the Jews of the Diaspora against Romein 115-117 C.E." Although its main causes are contested, one thing is certain: external political factors and internal issues among the Jews played key roles in the unraveling of the revolt and its consequences
> 
> *According to the account by [Roman historian] Eusebius... "The construction of a pagan temple and Hadrian's decision to change the name of Judea to Syria Palestina were both punishment..." *
> https://wiki.brown.edu/confluence/display/Spring07JS0053S01/Bar+Kokhba+Revolt.


 
*WNET/PBS, Educational Television: Teaching Heritage*


> As has been true throughout history, the location of Judea was pivotal in the story of its [Jewish] people.  When Judea rose in revolt against the brilliant and ruthless Roman emperor Hadrian in 132-135 under the leadership of Simeon Bar Kokhba..., it made a horrific mistake.
> 
> *Following Hadrian's murderous crushing of the rebellion...Hadrian deprived Judea even of its name.  He researched the name of the ancestral enemies of the Jews, the Philistines, and renamed the entire country "Palestine," the Latin version of Philistia.  Its vanquished and twice-destroyed capital Jerusalem he renamed "Aelia Capitolina," after the name of his family and of his patron god, Jupiter Capitolina.*http://www.thirteen.org/edonline/teachingheritage/lessons/faculty/unit3/unit3-atlas.pdf


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

> Israel, not Palestine.



If it is Israel, why can't you post a map?


----------



## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> > Israel, not Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> If it is Israel, why can't you post a map?



Did Jesus have a map of Israel, Scooter? 

John 1:49: Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

The maps in the back of my Bible call the place Palestine.


----------



## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> The maps in the back of my Bible call the place Palestine.



But, no "Palestine" actually IN your Bible, Scooter.  Maybe, open it one day?  

Israel is referenced 2000 times in the Bible.

No worries, Scooter, you're allowed to be dumb


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

And Jesus talked to a Canaanite woman. Long after they supposedly disappeared they were still a recognizable people.

Is that why you can't find a map of Israel?


----------



## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> And Jesus talked to a Canaanite woman. Long after they supposedly disappeared they were still a recognizable people.
> 
> Is that why you can't find a map of Israel?



Canaan and Israel are in the Bible, Scooter.  Palestine, not so much


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7_ib_9tkSM]Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

Israel, not Palestine.

"Palestine" was a made-up name for Israel.  The Romans renamed Israel "Palestina" to erase 1000 years of Jewish nationhood.  They went back to Italy 1500 years ago.

*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen,  Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *...


> *The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure.  Its result was not:  [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.* *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory.  And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*Augustine and the Jews: A Christian ... - Paula Fredriksen - Google Books


PBS: Paula Fredriksen...


> Specializing in the history of early Christianity, Paula Fredriksen is author of two books and over a dozen articles on early Christianity. Among her numerous awards and honors are a National Endowment for the Humanities grant for University Professors and a Lady Davis Visiting Professorship of Ancient Christianity at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Her second book, From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Jesus, received the Yale Press Governors' Award for Best Book in 1988. Fredriksen holds a Ph.D. in history of religions, ancient christianity, and Greco-Roman religions from Princeton University and a theology diploma from Oxford University. She served as historical consultant for the BBC production The Lives of Jesus and was a featured speaker and historical consultant for U.S. News and World Report's "The Life and Times of Jesus."
> Biographies | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS



*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. L. Michael White, Ph.D. and Master of Divinity Degrees from Yale University *....


> Responses to the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem
> 
> The Roman destruction of Jerusalem sent shock waves through the Jewish population.  The loss of life was devastating, but the destruction of Jerusalem and especially the Temple was even more devastating.
> 
> ...


PBS: Dr. L. Michael White


> One of the nation's foremost religion scholars, L. Michael White has a special interest in the social world of early Christians and Jews in the Greco-Roman period. His forthcoming book, Images of Jesus: The Shape of the Gospels and the Making of Tradition, deals extensively with the development of the gospels in early Christian history. White's distinguished career includes academic appointments at Yale University, Oberlin College, and University of Texas at Austin, where he currently serves as professor of classics and director of the religious studies program. White has published six books and over thirty articles and book reviews on Christianity and has received numerous awards and honors, including two National Endowment for the Humanities research fellowships. He is active as a program leader in the Society of Biblical Literature and is currently series editor for the Archaeology and Biblical Studies Series. He has served on the editorial boards of The Journal of Early Christian Studies and Biblical Archaeologist. White has served on archaeological excavations in Israel and also has done extensive field research in Italy, Greece, and Turkey. He received his Ph.D. and master of divinity degrees from Yale University.
> Biographies | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS


Israel appears in the Bible 2000+ times.  Palestine, not once.



> Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.





> Samuel 13:1: Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty two years


*Jesus was King of Israel, not "Palestine"  *

*Jesus Christ, King of Israel *...


> John 12:12-13  The next day the great crowd that had come for the Feast heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. They took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.





> John 1:49: Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."


*Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel * John 12 Commentary - Jesus Enters Jerusalem as King of Israel - BibleGateway.com 


> Passover was one of the three feasts that Jews were supposed to attend in Jerusalem, and consequently the population of Jerusalem swelled enormously at this time. As this great crowd is beginning to gather from around Israel and the larger world of the diaspora, news about Jesus is spreading, and people are wondering whether he will come to the feast. On Sunday, the day after the party in Bethany at which Mary anointed Jesus, news arrives that Jesus is on his way to Jerusalem, and a crowd of pilgrims, presumably those who had been wondering if he would come, goes out to meet him. Mary's private expression of emotion is now matched by the crowd's public outpouring of enthusiasm.
> They shout Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!. These are lines from one of the Psalms of Ascents sung as a welcome to pilgrims coming up to Jerusalem. As such, this is an entirely appropriate thing to do as Jesus is coming up to Jerusalem. The cry of Hosanna! is a Hebrew word (hoshi`ah-na) that had become a greeting or shout of praise but that actually meant "Save!" or "Help!". The cry of Hosanna! and the palm branches are in themselves somewhat ambiguous, but their import is made clear as the crowd adds a further line, Blessed is the King of Israel! (v. 13). Clearly they see in Jesus the answer to their nationalistic, messianic hopes. Earlier a crowd had wanted to make Jesus king (6:15), and now this crowd is recognizing him as king in the city of the great King. Here is the great dream of a Davidic ruler who would come and liberate Israel, establishing peace and subduing the Gentiles (cf. Psalms of Solomon 17:21-25).
> 
> John the Baptist's witness to Israel (1:31) finds its initial response in the confession of Nathanael, a true Israelite (1:47), when Nathanael confesses Jesus to be the Son of God, the King of Israel (1:49). Nathanael stands in marked contrast to Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel (3:10), who is unable to understand earthly things, let alone heavenly things. So the first three chapters are characterized by a concern with the initial witness to Israel, and this motif now finds its fullness in this crowd's acclamation of Jesus as the King of Israel. Jesus is indeed King of Israel, and this motif now comes to the fore as the story nears its end   His kingdom, however, far transcends Israel's boundaries. "What honor was it to the Lord to be King of Israel? What great thing was it to the King of eternity to become the King of men?".
> ...


.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2011)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzJgjf7dSEg]The Origin of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JStone (Dec 13, 2011)

The Origin of Fictional Palestine.  It's Israel! 

*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen,  Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *...


> *The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure.  Its result was not:  [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.* *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory.  And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*Augustine and the Jews: A Christian ... - Paula Fredriksen - Google Books


 
*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. L. Michael White, Ph.D. and Master of Divinity Degrees from Yale University *....


> Responses to the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem
> 
> The Roman destruction of Jerusalem sent shock waves through the Jewish population.  The loss of life was devastating, but the destruction of Jerusalem and especially the Temple was even more devastating.
> 
> ...


 
*Dr. Michael Coogan, Eminent Biblical Scholar, PhD, Harvard University, Professor Emeritus of Religious Studies at Stonehill College and Director of Publications for the Harvard Semitic Museum. Author of, "The Oxford History of the Biblical World" * 


> The Jewish revolt [against the Romans] had many causes.  Anti-Roman nationalistic unrest and militant messianic sentiments were key factors, as probably was the confiscation of Jewish land by the Roman government in the aftermath of the First Jewish Revolt.
> 
> *In the aftermath of the revolt, the Roman government changed the name of the province from Judea to Syria Palaestina.  Jerusalem was tranformed into the Roman city of Aelia Capitolina*
> Oxford University Press: The Oxford History of the Biblical World: Michael D. Coogan


 
*Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus, Princeton University *


> Official Roman usage of the name Palestine to designate the area of the former Jewish kingdom seems to date from after the Jewish risings and their suppression.
> 
> *The Emperor Hadrian made a determined attempt to stamp out the embers not only of the revolt but of Jewish nationhood and statehood.  The ruined city of Jerusalem was rebuilt in AD 135 as a Roman colony with a new name, Aelia Capitolina, in honour of the Emperor, whose full name was Titus Aelius Hadrianus, and of the gods of the Roman Capitol.
> 
> It would seem that the name Judaea was abolished at the same time as Jerusalem and the country renamed Palestina or Syria-Palestina with the same intention to obliterate its historic Jewish identity.*


 
*University of Southern California *History


> Rome conquered Jerusalem in 70 A.D. ending the national independence gained during the Jewish War (66-70 A.D.). Despite being under Roman control, much of the land in Judea was still in Jewish hands; the Jews were neither exiled nor enslaved. Seventy years after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, the Jews in Judea began a war against the Roman Empire. The war lasted for three years from late summer A.D. 132 through late autumn A.D. 135. The war was led by Shim&#8217;on ben (or Bar) Kosiba, who became known as &#8220;Bar Kokhba&#8221; or &#8220;Son of the Star.&#8221;
> 
> The emperor Hadrian found himself forced to deal with this serious Jewish threat to the Roman Empire. His Pax Romana was threatened by the Jewish War. Hadrian sent armies to Judea, but did not find victory against Bar Kokhba&#8217;s guerillas. The turning point in the war came when Hadrian called in one of his best generals, Julius Severus, to fight exclusively on the Jewish front. Severus slowly closed in around Bar Kokhba&#8212;and without outside help from the Jewish Diaspora which Bar Kokhba was counting on&#8212;was able to defeat the Jewish revolt.
> 
> *As punishment, the Jews were driven from Jerusalem and the gentiles moved in. The city was called Aelia Capitolina and was a pagan city&#8212;built on the ruins of Jerusalem. The province was renamed from Judea to Syria-Palaestina to further remove the Jews from their land. Practicing Judaism was outlawed and scholars who supported to rebellion were executed. Soon after the defeat of Bar Kokhba, Hadrian died and Antoninus Pius ascended the throne. Jews slowly regained their cultural and religious freedoms back *


 
*Brown University *


> The Bar Kokhba revolt occurred between the years of 132-135 CE. The Jews of the land of Judea (despite the fact that today there is more evidence that the revolt went beyond the boundaries of Judea), rose against the Roman Empire. This revolt is generally considered as "a continuation of the uprisings of the Jews of the Diaspora against Romein 115-117 C.E." Although its main causes are contested, one thing is certain: external political factors and internal issues among the Jews played key roles in the unraveling of the revolt and its consequences
> 
> *According to the account by [Roman historian] Eusebius... "The construction of a pagan temple and Hadrian's decision to change the name of Judea to Syria Palestina were both punishment..." *
> https://wiki.brown.edu/confluence/display/Spring07JS0053S01/Bar+Kokhba+Revolt.


 
*WNET/PBS, Educational Television: Teaching Heritage*


> As has been true throughout history, the location of Judea was pivotal in the story of its [Jewish] people.  When Judea rose in revolt against the brilliant and ruthless Roman emperor Hadrian in 132-135 under the leadership of Simeon Bar Kokhba..., it made a horrific mistake.
> 
> *Following Hadrian's murderous crushing of the rebellion...Hadrian deprived Judea even of its name.  He researched the name of the ancestral enemies of the Jews, the Philistines, and renamed the entire country "Palestine," the Latin version of Philistia.  Its vanquished and twice-destroyed capital Jerusalem he renamed "Aelia Capitolina," after the name of his family and of his patron god, Jupiter Capitolina.*http://www.thirteen.org/edonline/teachingheritage/lessons/faculty/unit3/unit3-atlas.pdf


----------



## editec (Dec 14, 2011)

If the point is that a place called Palestine existed?

That is true.

It astounds me when people even attempt to make the cse that it isn't true.

Its been true for going on 2000 years, folks.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

editec said:


> If the point is that a place called Palestine existed?
> 
> That is true.



You're entitled to be dumb.  

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...


> The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel





> It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history.  They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places.  It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others.  Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.  All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books.  For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.





> The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites.  But, Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria
> 
> The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

Where *is* that map of Israel?


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Where *is* that map of Israel?



Er, the British invented Palestine after World War I to denote Israel.  Your map is bogus.

Cambridge University Press


> In Ottoman times, no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
> Palestine Boundaries 1833&#8211;1947 - Cambridge Archive Editions


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

> Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained *subject to repeated change* and a source of bitter dispute.



The state of Palestine was created and its borders defined by the League of Nations in 1922.

Show a change in its borders since 1922.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

> Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a *source of bitter dispute.*



Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> > Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained *subject to repeated change* and a source of bitter dispute.
> 
> 
> 
> The state of Palestine was created and its borders defined by the League of Nations in 1922.



Palestina [Latin, not Arabic or "Palesteenian"] was fabricated by the Romans to erase 1000 years of Jewish nationhood in Israel, Scooter.

The Roman Empire no longer exists.  

*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen,  Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *...


> *The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure.  Its result was not:  [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.* *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory.  And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*Augustine and the Jews: A Christian ... - Paula Fredriksen - Google Books


 
*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. L. Michael White, Ph.D. and Master of Divinity Degrees from Yale University *....


> Responses to the Roman Destruction of Jerusalem
> 
> The Roman destruction of Jerusalem sent shock waves through the Jewish population.  The loss of life was devastating, but the destruction of Jerusalem and especially the Temple was even more devastating.
> 
> ...


 
*Dr. Michael Coogan, Eminent Biblical Scholar, PhD, Harvard University, Professor Emeritus of Religious Studies at Stonehill College and Director of Publications for the Harvard Semitic Museum. Author of, "The Oxford History of the Biblical World" * 


> The Jewish revolt [against the Romans] had many causes.  Anti-Roman nationalistic unrest and militant messianic sentiments were key factors, as probably was the confiscation of Jewish land by the Roman government in the aftermath of the First Jewish Revolt.
> 
> *In the aftermath of the revolt, the Roman government changed the name of the province from Judea to Syria Palaestina.  Jerusalem was tranformed into the Roman city of Aelia Capitolina*
> Oxford University Press: The Oxford History of the Biblical World: Michael D. Coogan


 
*Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis *


> Official Roman usage of the name Palestine to designate the area of the former Jewish kingdom seems to date from after the Jewish risings and their suppression.
> 
> *The Emperor Hadrian made a determined attempt to stamp out the embers not only of the revolt but of Jewish nationhood and statehood.  The ruined city of Jerusalem was rebuilt in AD 135 as a Roman colony with a new name, Aelia Capitolina, in honour of the Emperor, whose full name was Titus Aelius Hadrianus, and of the gods of the Roman Capitol.
> 
> It would seem that the name Judaea was abolished at the same time as Jerusalem and the country renamed Palestina or Syria-Palestina with the same intention to obliterate its historic Jewish identity.*


 
*University of Southern California *History


> Rome conquered Jerusalem in 70 A.D. ending the national independence gained during the Jewish War (66-70 A.D.). Despite being under Roman control, much of the land in Judea was still in Jewish hands; the Jews were neither exiled nor enslaved. Seventy years after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem, the Jews in Judea began a war against the Roman Empire. The war lasted for three years from late summer A.D. 132 through late autumn A.D. 135. The war was led by Shimon ben (or Bar) Kosiba, who became known as Bar Kokhba or Son of the Star.
> 
> The emperor Hadrian found himself forced to deal with this serious Jewish threat to the Roman Empire. His Pax Romana was threatened by the Jewish War. Hadrian sent armies to Judea, but did not find victory against Bar Kokhbas guerillas. The turning point in the war came when Hadrian called in one of his best generals, Julius Severus, to fight exclusively on the Jewish front. Severus slowly closed in around Bar Kokhbaand without outside help from the Jewish Diaspora which Bar Kokhba was counting onwas able to defeat the Jewish revolt.
> 
> *As punishment, the Jews were driven from Jerusalem and the gentiles moved in. The city was called Aelia Capitolina and was a pagan citybuilt on the ruins of Jerusalem. The province was renamed from Judea to Syria-Palaestina to further remove the Jews from their land. Practicing Judaism was outlawed and scholars who supported to rebellion were executed. Soon after the defeat of Bar Kokhba, Hadrian died and Antoninus Pius ascended the throne. Jews slowly regained their cultural and religious freedoms back *


 
*Brown University *


> The Bar Kokhba revolt occurred between the years of 132-135 CE. The Jews of the land of Judea (despite the fact that today there is more evidence that the revolt went beyond the boundaries of Judea), rose against the Roman Empire. This revolt is generally considered as "a continuation of the uprisings of the Jews of the Diaspora against Romein 115-117 C.E." Although its main causes are contested, one thing is certain: external political factors and internal issues among the Jews played key roles in the unraveling of the revolt and its consequences
> 
> *According to the account by [Roman historian] Eusebius... "The construction of a pagan temple and Hadrian's decision to change the name of Judea to Syria Palestina were both punishment..." *
> https://wiki.brown.edu/confluence/display/Spring07JS0053S01/Bar+Kokhba+Revolt.


 
*WNET/PBS, Educational Television: Teaching Heritage*


> As has been true throughout history, the location of Judea was pivotal in the story of its [Jewish] people.  When Judea rose in revolt against the brilliant and ruthless Roman emperor Hadrian in 132-135 under the leadership of Simeon Bar Kokhba..., it made a horrific mistake.
> 
> *Following Hadrian's murderous crushing of the rebellion...Hadrian deprived Judea even of its name.  He researched the name of the ancestral enemies of the Jews, the Philistines, and renamed the entire country "Palestine," the Latin version of Philistia.  Its vanquished and twice-destroyed capital Jerusalem he renamed "Aelia Capitolina," after the name of his family and of his patron god, Jupiter Capitolina.*http://www.thirteen.org/edonline/teachingheritage/lessons/faculty/unit3/unit3-atlas.pdf


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.
> 
> Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.
> 
> Show a map of Israel.



Maybe, Jesus Christ, King of Israel, has a map.  Have you checked in with the Lord and Savior, Scooter? 

John 1:49: Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

You're batting *zero* there, Stoner.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

 Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

 Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> You're batting *zero* there, Stoner.
> 
> Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.



Israel, not Palestine, Scooter.  Jesus Christ was King of Israel, not the bogus Palestine invented by European colonialists.

John 12:12-13


> The next day the great crowd that had come for the Feast heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. They took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

You're still batting zero there, Stoner. Blowing smoke does no count for anything.

 Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

 Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

 Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> You're still batting zero there, Stoner. Blowing smoke does no count for anything.
> 
> Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.
> 
> ...



Maybe, Jesus Christ, King of Israel [not the bogus "Palestine" invented by European colonialists] has a map, Scooter.  

Have you spoken with the Lord and Savior, lately, Scooter?

John 1:49: Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > You're still batting zero there, Stoner. Blowing smoke does no count for anything.
> ...


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Scooter, can you show where "Palestine" is referenced in the New Testament? No, I didn't think so 

Israel appears 2000 times in the Bible.  Sucks being you, right?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

You're still batting zero there, Stoner.

 Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

 Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

 Show a map of Israel.

Come on, people, anyone can provide the information. Anyone?


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> You're still batting zero there, Stoner.
> 
> Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.
> 
> ...



Where does "Palestine" that was invented by European colonialists appear in the New Testament, Scooter?  I'm sure we all would like to see.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

You posted it. You back it up.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

 Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

 Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> You posted it. You back it up.
> 
> Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.
> 
> ...



No references to Palestine in the New Testament, Scooter?

Maybe, Quran has Palestine since you Fakestinians think Jesus Christ was a Muslime Fakestinian.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWLyVU0Otlk]Arafat said Jesus was a Palestinian. Palestinian author and TV host agree. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## editec (Dec 14, 2011)

Near as I can tell, using Ptolemy's INDEX (the text of his geography no longer exists) written around 150 AC *the ROMANS, call the whole region SYRIA.*


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > You posted it. You back it up.
> ...



You can't just blow smoke and walk away. You posted this. Back it up.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

 Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

 Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

editec said:


> Near as I can tell, using Ptolemy's INDEX (the text of his geography no longer exists) written around 150 AC *the ROMANS, call the whole region SYRIA.*



Do the Romans own Israel, dink?  You know Ptolemy was Greek and not Roman, no?


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

editec said:


> Near as I can tell, using Ptolemy's INDEX (the text of his geography no longer exists) written around 150 AC *the ROMANS, call the whole region SYRIA.*



The Romans called the land of the Jews, Judah, "Judaea," ancestral Jewish land from which "Jew" is derived

After conquering Judaea, the Romans minted Judaea Capta coins [not Palestina capta] to commemorate the event  British Museum - Bronze coin of Pontius Pilate, Procurator of Judaea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaea_Capta_coinage


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > You posted it. You back it up.
> ...



You have posted pages of deflection. Back up what you post.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

 Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

 Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

JStone said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > Near as I can tell, using Ptolemy's INDEX (the text of his geography no longer exists) written around 150 AC *the ROMANS, call the whole region SYRIA.*
> ...



The Persians, who preceded both the Greeks and Romans, referred to the ancestral Jewish land of Judah as Yehud, Aramaic for Judah.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

Are you still ducking the issues?

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

 Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

 Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

JStone said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
> ...



The Jews, who preceded the Persians, referred to their ancestral land as Israel.

Exodus 34:27 Then the LORD said to Moses, Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

Yep, still ducking.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

JStone said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...



Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...


> The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan.
> 
> After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

And besides all that crap.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

 Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

 Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

JStone said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

JStone said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2011)

How many pages of deflection are you going to post before you get to the issues?

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

 Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

 Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

JStone said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


----------



## JStone (Dec 14, 2011)

And, did you know that Jesus Christ was really a muslime palesteenian in the fake history of Palestine?  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWLyVU0Otlk]Arafat said Jesus was a Palestinian. Palestinian author and TV host agree. - YouTube[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE6PNps5N9I]4 laughing babies - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jos (Jan 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> How many pages of deflection are you going to post before you get to the issues?
> 
> Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.
> 
> ...



He knows he cant


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis


> The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites.  But, Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria
> 
> The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]


 


> It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history.  They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places.  It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others.  Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.
> 
> All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books.  For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.


 
American Library Association


> "For more than four decades, Bernard Lewis has been one of the most respected scholars and prolific writers on the history and politics of the Middle East. In this compilation of more than 50 journal articles and essays, he displays the full range of his eloquence, knowledge, and insight regarding this pivotal and volatile region."
> Oxford University Press: Faith and Power: Bernard Lewis


 




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Jos said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > How many pages of deflection are you going to post before you get to the issues?
> ...



That is because:

There have been no changes in Palestine's borders since 1922.

There have been no border disputes between Palestine and its neighbors.

There are no maps of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Random House, Inc. Academic Resources | Augustine and the Jews by Paula Fredriksen




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

More deflection.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,  Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the king of Israel! 
*



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

More deflection.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*John 1:49 Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."
*



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

More deflection.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

Luke 1:  &#8220;Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, 
because he has come to his people and redeemed them. 
He has raised up a horn of salvation for us 
in the house of his servant David 


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

More deflection.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes*



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Deflection.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Ezekiel 36:1 Son of man, prophesy to the mountains of Israel and say, 'O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD.*




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

More deflection.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Matthew 2  After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, &#8220;Get up, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who were trying to take the child&#8217;s life are dead.&#8221; *



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Deflection.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

Matthew 2:  After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, Get up, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who were trying to take the childs life are dead. 

So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

More deflection.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one *



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

You posted it. You prove it.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Exodus 14:2: 'Speak unto the children of Israel, that they turn back and encamp before Pi-hahiroth, between Migdol and the sea, before Baal-zephon, over against it shall ye encamp by the sea.
*



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

More deflection.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Exodus 14 And Pharaoh will say of the children of Israel: They are entangled in the land, the wilderness hath shut them in. *


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Deflection.

You posted it. You prove it.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Exodus 34:27 Then the LORD said to Moses, Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel. *





[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

You posted it. You prove it.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Ezekiel 47:13 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: These are the boundaries of the land that you will divide among the twelve tribes of Israel as their inheritance, with two portions for Joseph
*





[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Deflection.

You posted it. You prove it.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Samuel 13:1 Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty two years*



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

More deflection.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Samuel 13:2   Saul chose three thousand men from Israel; two thousand were with him at Mikmash and in the hill country of Bethel, and a thousand were with Jonathan at Gibeah in Benjamin. The rest of the men he sent back to their homes.*



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

> Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained *subject to repeated change* and a *source of bitter dispute*.



Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Exodus 34:27 Then the LORD said to Moses, Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel. *


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Deflection.

You posted it. You prove it.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*



			Quran 17:104 And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)  on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd
		
Click to expand...

*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

When are you going to back what you posted?

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*John 12:13 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,  Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord! Blessed is the king of Israel! *



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Still no proof that what you posted is true.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*John 1:49 Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Deflection.

You posted it. You prove it.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Luke 1:68-79 Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, 
because he has come to his people and redeemed them. 
He has raised up a horn of salvation for us 
in the house of his servant David 
*




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Still no proof that what you posted is true.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*John 1:49: Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

You are batting *zero* there, Stoner.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

*Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes
*




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

The big *Zero* posts more deflection.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Good points. The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country like Hamas wants to do. The majority of Palestinians are not ready to surrender.
> 
> It is Israel that attacked and occupied Palestine and after a hundred years Israel has not won yet.



Allahu Akbar indeed - death to the infidels and their proxies.

So, how much do you contribute each month to Al Qaeda?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Yes, there are Palestinian Jews.



Not once you get finished, Allahu Akbar!


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> 
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country



What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans renamed Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> The big *Zero* posts more deflection.
> 
> Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.
> 
> ...



Say Ahmed, isn't it true that the area of Palestine included Lebanon, Jordan and much of Syria, as well as Israel?

So one wonders why you don't scream about the need to cede Jordan and Syria to the "Palestinians?"

Oh but, Syria and Jordan are under Muslim control, which is the ONLY actual issue.....

You will not suffer infidels to occupy Muslim lands - the bottom line.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

JStone said:


> > Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> > The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country
> 
> 
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3huJaa0nBqo&feature=related]Sound of crickets - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The big *Zero* posts more deflection.
> ...



Palestine's borders were defined by the League of Nations in 1922. Nobody has disputed those borders.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

JStone said:


> > Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> > The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country
> 
> 
> ...






[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3huJaa0nBqo&feature=related]Sound of crickets - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine's borders were defined by the League of Nations in 1922. Nobody has disputed those borders.



{Transjordan (Article 25)

Under the terms of the McMahon-Hussein correspondence and Sykes-Picot agreements, the land east of the Jordan was to be part of an Arab state or confederation of Arab states part of the purpose of which was to create an Arab territory east of the Jordan River. When the Inter-Allied Conference at San Remo adjourned in April 1920, the text of the Palestine mandate did not contain Article 25, or mention "the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined". Sanford Silverburg said that "a Palestine" within the western political understanding of the term simply never existed." He observed that the failure to establish a western-based territorial element or frame of reference had clouded discussions and cited the claim that Transjordan had been detached from Palestine as a non-sequitur.[29]}

British Mandate for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So Jordan is 100% carved out of Ottoman "Palestine." Yet we hear no demand from you that Jordan be given to the "Palestinians."

Why is that?

Don't bother, Jordan is a Muslim country, what you seek is to drive the infidels from the middle east, which you consider Muslim lands. 

Any claims of "Palestinians" is a farce, you are a Muslim supremest - nothing more.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

JStone said:


> > Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> > The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country
> 
> 
> ...



As punishment for being unable to answer the questions above, go sit in the corner, dunce.  Still zero reputational points for you 






[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Palestine's borders were defined by the League of Nations in 1922. Nobody has disputed those borders.
> ...



Britain violated the League of Nations Charter and violated the rights of the native population of Palestine. Of course the violation of rights do not negate those rights.



> A legal analysis performed by the International Court of Justice noted that the Covenant of the League of Nations had provisionally recognised the communities of Palestine as independent nations. The mandate simply marked a transitory period, with the aim and object of leading the mandated territory to become an independent self-governing State.[76] Judge Higgins explained that the Palestinian people are entitled to their territory, to exercise self-determination, and to have their own State."
> 
> British Mandate for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

JStone said:


> > Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> > The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country
> 
> 
> ...





> A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that* Palestine* and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties.
> 
> State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The name is Palestine and the government was in Jerusalem.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > > Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> ...




What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3huJaa0nBqo&feature=related]Sound of crickets - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...





> Article I
> 
> With a view to promoting the return to permanent peace in *Palestine* and in recognition of the importance in this regard of mutual assurances concerning the future military operations of the Parties, the following principles, which shall be fully observed by both Parties during the Armistice, are hereby affirmed:
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949



It is still Palestine in 1949. No borders were changed and no land was transferred.


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire.  What is the name of the fakestinians' country?

*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Random House, Inc. Academic Resources | Augustine and the Jews by Paula Fredriksen


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzJgjf7dSEg]The Origin of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Origin of Palestine - YouTube



The Romans renamed Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire. For the 20th time, what is the name of the fakestinians' country?

*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Random House, Inc. Academic Resources | Augustine and the Jews by Paula Fredriksen



*PBS...*


> Specializing in the history of early Christianity, Paula Fredriksen is author of two books and over a dozen articles on early Christianity. Among her numerous awards and honors are a National Endowment for the Humanities grant for University Professors and a Lady Davis Visiting Professorship of Ancient Christianity at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Her second book, From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Jesus, received the Yale Press Governors' Award for Best Book in 1988. Fredriksen holds a Ph.D. in history of religions, ancient christianity, and Greco-Roman religions from Princeton University and a theology diploma from Oxford University. She served as historical consultant for the BBC production The Lives of Jesus and was a featured speaker and historical consultant for U.S. News and World Report's "The Life and Times of Jesus."
> Biographies | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 3, 2012)

The Palestine Mandate was called the Palestine Mandate because that was the name of the Place.

Duh!


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
For the 21st time, what was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JStone (Jan 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestine Mandate was called the Palestine Mandate because that was the name of the Place.
> 
> Duh!



Palestine is a modern European invention.  The indigenous Jews named their land Israel 3000 years ago 

Palestine has Hebrew roots, derived from the Hebrew "Peleshet" in the Hebrew Bible referring to the philistines who were ancient invaders of Israel originating from Greece [pelesh: invader]  Palestine does not appear in the Bible nor in the Quran.

There is nothing "palestinian" about palestine.


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 


> For the 21st time, what was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire.
> 
> What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record







[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 4, 2012)

At this time, Gaza is the de facto capital.


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> At this time, Gaza is the de facto capital.



Let's try, again. 

What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 4, 2012)

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > At this time, Gaza is the de facto capital.
> ...



Don't blame me for your comprehension problem.


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots

Gaza was not the capital of anything so what was the name of the capital of their fictional country?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 4, 2012)

You really do not want to know. You just want to clutter threads with crap.


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> You really do not want to know. You just want to clutter threads with crap.



What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans renamed Israel palestine during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots?

What was the capital of their fictional country since gaza was never a capital of any country?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Britain violated the League of Nations Charter and violated the rights of the native population of Palestine. Of course the violation of rights do not negate those rights.



There is no native population. The vast majority of the Arabs in Israel came from Egypt. You know this. 



> A legal analysis performed by the International Court of Justice noted that the Covenant of the League of Nations had provisionally recognised the communities of Palestine as independent nations. The mandate simply marked a transitory period, with the aim and object of leading the mandated territory to become an independent self-governing State.[76] Judge Higgins explained that the Palestinian people are entitled to their territory, to exercise self-determination, and to have their own State."
> 
> British Mandate for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


[/QUOTE]

Again, you make no demands of Jordan, Syria nor Lebanon.

The fact is that you are Muslim supremest and seek to murder or otherwise purge the area of non-Muslim control. 

Not one grain of sand will be under the control of infidels lest there be continual war on them by Muslims.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> The name is Palestine and the government was in Jerusalem.



That's a direct lie, as you know.

Never has there been such a country.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestine Mandate was called the Palestine Mandate because that was the name of the Place.
> 
> Duh!



So the Saudi's should give their land to "Middle Easterners." After all, it's in the Middle East.


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The name is Palestine and the government was in Jerusalem.



You said Gaza was the capital of the fictional palestine.  Now, it's Jerusalem  

The Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire  

King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago attested by the Bible and verified by the archaeological record.

"Palestine" has Hebrew roots, derived from the Hebrew "Peleshet" in the Hebrew Bible

No reputational points for you, Pinocchio.  


*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University, Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish messiah] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Random House, Inc. Academic Resources | Augustine and the Jews by Paula Fredriksen


----------



## Jos (Jan 4, 2012)




----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis


> The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites.  But, Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria
> 
> The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]


 


> It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history.  They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places.  It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others.  Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.
> 
> All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books.  For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.


 
American Library Association


> "For more than four decades, Bernard Lewis has been one of the most respected scholars and prolific writers on the history and politics of the Middle East. In this compilation of more than 50 journal articles and essays, he displays the full range of his eloquence, knowledge, and insight regarding this pivotal and volatile region."
> Oxford University Press: Faith and Power: Bernard Lewis


 




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jos (Jan 4, 2012)




----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

Jos said:


>







[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jos (Jan 4, 2012)

is that your skool foto?


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 4, 2012)

Jos said:


>



Jos, aren't you from Spain?  Aren't most Spaniards Catholic?  Yet you don't believe in your own New Testament Bible, since you don't believe Israel existed.  Same goes for your own supposed Christian faith, Mr. Obsessed-with-Borders Tinmore.


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

Fakestinians 

*Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen* 


> The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.
> Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
*Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi, Italian Muslim Assembly * 


> I believe that "Palestinian identity" is something completely artificial: it was forged as a propagandistic tool against Israel. The strange fact is that, at least here in Europe, I have never heard an Arab from the Land of Israel ("Palestine") say: "I am Palestinian."
> 
> Please remember that the so-called hero of "Palestinian independence," the pro-Nazi Grand Mufti of British Mandate Palestine, Haj Amin al-Husseini, never claimed that "Palestinians" are to be an independent people: all of his official declarations state that "Palestine must be recognized as a integral part of Syria."
> ISRAEL SHOULD DECLARE OSLO NULL AND VOID (Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi August, 1998


 
*Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, University of Paris * 


> No one had heard of a Palestinian people  before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries--Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq--attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
> The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | dreuz.info


 
Fakestinian History 

* Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Jewish and Middle East History *  


> On August 18 Yasir Arafat, speaking as head of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza and Jericho, told Arab youngsters at a summer camp, "Those of you who lit the intifada fire must now act as defenders of this young state, whose capital is Jerusalem. It is Bir Salem [the fountain of Salem]. Salem was one of the Canaanite Kings, one of our forefathers. This city is the capital of our children and our children's children. If not for this belief and conviction of the Palestinian nation, this people would have been erased from the face of the earth, as were so many other nations."
> 
> *King Salem is a newcomer on the historical scene. No such Canaanite, Jebusite or Philistine king is known to history *


 
Fakestinian Messiahs.  Did you know Jesus Christ, the Jewish rabbi who taught from the Torah and observed Passover in the Jerusalem Temple, was REALLY a muslime fakestinian? 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWLyVU0Otlk]Arafat said Jesus was a Palestinian. Palestinian author and TV host agree. - YouTube[/ame]   




> Were talking about an ongoing chain [of prophets of the Islam], from Adam to Muhammad. Its an ongoing chain, representing the call for monotheism, and the mission of Islam The prophets were all of the same religion [Islam] Jesus was born in this land. He lived in this land. It is known that he was born in Bethlehem He also lived in Nazereth, moved to Jerusalem. So he was a Palestinian par excellenceWe respect Jesus, we believe in him [as a Muslim prophet], just as we believe in the prophet Muhammad."


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQC0zeQFgJc]Jesus misrepresented as "Palestinian" by Mufti of the Palestinian Authority - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jos (Jan 4, 2012)

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > > Since the Romans renamed Israel "Palestina," that would make Jews "Palestinians"
> ...



No link to copyright material?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2012)

Jos said:


> is that your skool foto?



Is this your's?







(Muslim pussy!)


----------



## Jos (Jan 4, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > is that your skool foto?
> ...







jewish pussy!


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2012)

Jos said:


> jewish pussy!



No wonder you always get your ass kicked, Ahmed. The Jewish cat has teeth....


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > jewish pussy!
> ...



Monkey, where is this fictional palestine and the fakestinians in the Biible or their own Quran?



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jos (Jan 4, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > jewish pussy!
> ...



But no foreskin, no sexual pleasure for jews, other than the Anus, Moses said


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

Jos said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...



Monkey, you were supposed to show us where the fictional palestine and the fakestinians appear in the Bible and their own Holy Quran.

Whatcha got for us, monkey?  The zoo is closing soon.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2012)

Jos said:


> But no foreskin, no sexual pleasure for jews, other than the Anus, Moses said



Yeah, look at them sexy Muzzy wimminz...






Say Ahmed, do you beat them because of your sexual frustrations?

I'd tell you to go blow off a little steam, but Muzzies tend to blow up children, so I'll pass on it....






Allahu Akbar, eh Ahmed?


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

Jos said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > No wonder you always get your ass kicked, Ahmed. The Jewish cat has teeth....
> ...



Rabbi Jesus Christ taught that, monkey?  

John 1:49 Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."








[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame][/QUOTE]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 4, 2012)

You posted it. You back it up.

Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.

Show a dispute between Palestine and its neighbors over borders.

Show a map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

JStone said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



Nothing, dunce?  Go sit in the corner!






[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> You posted it. You back it up.
> 
> Show a change in Palestine's borders since 1922.
> 
> ...



Right after you show a change in Neverland's borders since 1922! (Since we're talking fictional countries that have never existed...)


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > You posted it. You back it up.
> ...



I heard Arafat say the fakestinians and their country go back to the beginning of time.  No?

You don't know who to believe anymore.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 4, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > You posted it. You back it up.
> ...



Speaking of neverlands, nobody has been able to find a 1948 map of Israel.


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Where is the 1948 map of Egypt?


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsJjm5K07V0]Who are the Palestinians? - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## JStone (Jan 4, 2012)

JStone said:


> > Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> > The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country
> 
> 
> ...







[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Speaking of neverlands, nobody has been able to find a 1948 map of Israel.



No one can find ANY map of a nation of Palestine.

Face it, you're just a Muslim supremest demanding that Sura 9 be obeyed and that no infidel hold authority over lands that you consider Muslim.


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking of neverlands, nobody has been able to find a 1948 map of Israel.
> ...



Worse, still, pfucktard is an aspiring messageboard muslime wannabe who wouldn't know a surah from a mullah


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2012)

JStone said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



This is not a religious conflict.


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking of neverlands, nobody has been able to find a 1948 map of Israel.
> ...



I am still looking for that 1948 map of Israel.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7_ib_9tkSM]Palestine Before Israel - Maps - YouTube[/ame]


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

> I am still looking for that 1948 map of Israel.



Where is the 1948 map of Egypt?
Where is the fictional palestine and the fakestiniains in the Bible and Quran?



> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2012)

I post maps.

You post blabber.

Where is that map of your so called Israel?


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> I post maps.
> 
> You post blabber.
> 
> Where is that map of your so called Israel?



No 1948 map of Egypt.

Where is the fictional palestine and the fakestiniains in the Bible and Quran?



> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2012)

JStone said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > I post maps.
> ...



Are you lost again?

This is the Israel and Palestine forum.


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



No name for the fakestinians' fictional own "country"?  No name for their fictional capital?

Go to the corner, dunce.







[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2012)

Israel pretends to be a state but it has no land, has no borders, and has no map.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> This is not a religious conflict.



It is only a religious conflict.

You are a Muslims supremest who seeks to make the land "pure" for your fucknut demon, Allah.


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > This is not a religious conflict.
> ...



pfucktard is in the dunce corner until he can name the fakestinians' own fictional country and their own fictional capital of their own fictional country


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> I am still looking for that 1948 map of Israel.



I'm still looking for a map of a NATION or STATE of Palestine.

Unless you're demanding that residents of Main be driven into the sea so that New Englanders can have the land...


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > I am still looking for that 1948 map of Israel.
> ...



Don't go looking for any palestine in the Bible or even in the fakestinians' own Quran.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel pretends to be a state but it has no land, has no borders, and has no map.



You have no brain, Ahmed.


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

UN Member States: Israel  United Nations member States - Information Sources

No palestine, however, in the Bible or Quran 


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > I am still looking for that 1948 map of Israel.
> ...



A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that *Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states* according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that *Palestine was responsible as the successor state* for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. *The Courts of Palestine* and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been *ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.*

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/142497-the-state-of-palestine.html


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Israel pretends to be a state but it has no land, has no borders, and has no map.
> ...



That map has Palestine's borders and the 1949 armistice lines. There are no Israeli borders on that map.

That is why I ask for a 1948 map of Israel without the 1949 armistice lines.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> That map has Palestine's borders and the 1949 armistice lines. There are no Israeli borders on that map.



That map is of ISRAEL. 

Sorry that it offends you and the pathetic demon you worship.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > That map has Palestine's borders and the 1949 armistice lines. There are no Israeli borders on that map.
> ...



Show the documents where Israel acquired any land or defined any borders.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Show the documents where Israel acquired any land or defined any borders.



Show me documents where Jordan acquired any land or defined any borders.

Denying the Israel exists makes you Hamas fools cum, but reveals you as morons to anyone sentient.


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
What was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Show the documents where Israel acquired any land or defined any borders.
> ...



You can call names if you want but that will not change the facts. The only issue with Jordan is the border between Palestine and Jordan. That border is not in dispute nor are the borders between Palestine and Lebanon, Palestine and Syria, or Palestine and Egypt.


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
Once, again, what was the name of the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots.

What was the name of the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 5, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> You can call names if you want



You are either in Hamas or support them. I'm stating facts, not calling names.



> but that will not change the facts. The only issue with Jordan is the border between Palestine and Jordan.



Jordan was carved 100% out of Ottoman Palestine. The only reason you give Jordan a pass is that it is Muslim ruled.



> That border is not in dispute nor are the borders between Palestine and Lebanon, Palestine and Syria, or Palestine and Egypt.



Again, you are a Muslim supremest. You attack Israel purely because it is a land that is not under Muslim rule.

This is the absolute fact, you and I both know it.


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2012)

Uncensored2008 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > You can call names if you want
> ...



I know you are trying to derail this discussion because I am right and you cannot refute anything I say.


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country


 
You still are unable to name the fakestinians' fictional country?  Couldn't be palestine because the Romans re-named Israel "Palestine" during the Roman Empire and palestine has Hebrew roots.

Still unable to name the capital of their fictional country?  Couldn't be Jerusalem since King David established Jerusalem as the Jewish capital 3000 years ago as attested in the Bible and verified by the archaeological record




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


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## JStone (Jan 5, 2012)

JStone said:


> > Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> > The Palestinians can surrender like Abbas wants to do, or they can keep defending their country
> 
> 
> ...



Go sit in the corner, dunce.






[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


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## Jos (Jan 6, 2012)

There is no map of israel?


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## eots (Jan 6, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ovdA1VZ-c&feature=related]Jew Settlers Stoning Palestine Children walking to school - YouTube[/ame]


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## JStone (Jan 6, 2012)

*Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis*


> The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new.  This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites.  But, Palestine was not one of them.  People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality.  But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria
> 
> The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]


 


> It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history.  They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places.  It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others.  Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.
> 
> All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books.  For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.


 
American Library Association


> "For more than four decades, Bernard Lewis has been one of the most respected scholars and prolific writers on the history and politics of the Middle East. In this compilation of more than 50 journal articles and essays, he displays the full range of his eloquence, knowledge, and insight regarding this pivotal and volatile region."
> Oxford University Press: Faith and Power: Bernard Lewis


 




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xrnw-yIc9w]The True History of Palestine - YouTube[/ame]


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