# Joe the Plummer



## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Daily Kos: Is 'Joe the Plumber' related to Charles Keating?

owns serval busninesses.


First, he seems to own a few companies: 
#1: 

Joseph Wurzelbacher (Joseph Wurzelbacher Cnstr Co) 
12172 Stone Mill Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45251-4134 

#2: 

JCC INVESTMENTS INC in the Investors, N.E.C. industry in CINCINNATI, OH. This company currently has approximately 1 to 5 employees and annual sales of Under $500,000. 
Location Information Edit 
12172 STONE MILL RD 
CINCINNATI, OH  45251 

#3: 

Wurzelbacher Painting 
12148 Stone Mill Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45251-4134  (Map) 

#4: 

Wurzelbacher Brothers 
(513) 385-6666 
11260 Colerain Avenue, 
Cincinnati, OH 45252 
Specialties:   
REPAIR OF SEPTIC TANKS 
Phone: (513) 385-5264 

Ok, so the first three are all on the same road


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Hes also related to Charles Keating


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## Andrew2382 (Oct 16, 2008)

He should immedately buy the plumbing business and rename it "Joe the Plumber"

What a gold mine


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## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

The Bill Press show said they suspected he was a bogus plant from the GOP.  He isn't really a plumber.  He's a liar.


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

Andrew2382 said:


> He should immedately buy the plumbing business and rename it "Joe the Plumber"
> 
> What a gold mine



That's a fantastic idea.


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## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

He looks like a skin head.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

They could not find a plummers licence under his name in Ohio either.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

It there nothing about the mcCrusty campaign that is not based on a lie?


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## Jeepers (Oct 16, 2008)

If the cat was legit .. Obama should have said that his customers would be getting that tax cut so they could actually afford to higher a plumber... otherwise they'd be saving money by going to Home Depot fixing it themselves...


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## Silence (Oct 16, 2008)

Jeepers said:


> If the cat was legit .. Obama should have said that his customers would be getting that tax cut so they could actually afford to higher a plumber... otherwise they'd be saving money by going to Home Depot fixing it themselves...



Obama said somthing similar actually.  he said by giving the middle class a tax cut they could afford to hire a plumber when they needed one.

Is this guy really a fake?


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## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

Does it matter? The fact is, Obama wants to spread the wealth of small business owners, who are anything but rich. He wants to zap them with higher taxes.


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## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

He isn't very bright.



> Mr Wurzelbacher said the company earned $250,000-$280,000 (£144,800-£162,250) a year, and he challenged Mr Obama: "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"


BBC NEWS | Americas | US Elections 2008 | Profile: Joe Wurzelbacher

Taxes would only be owed on personal salaries, not what the company earned. He should stick to plumbing and forget about buying his own business. He'll be in the toilet in no time.


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## hjmick (Oct 16, 2008)

If I remember the original talk between Obama and Joe, I believe Joe said he was planning on buying a plumbing company. I could be wrong.


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## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

As McCain said, you have to listen to the words that come from Obama's mouth.


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## Silence (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> Does it matter? The fact is, Obama wants to spread the wealth of small business owners, who are anything but rich. He wants to zap them with higher taxes.



actually, yes Allie, it does matter.  It's fake and phony to plant someone at an Obama event to ask a question only to later come out and say he didn't "change" my mind, when in fact his mind couldn't have been changed to begin with.  

As for spreading the wealth of small businesses around, I watched the video, Obama never used that phrase and he never said that.  he explained that by Joe paying a little more in taxes, because he CAN afford it, it assists those who make less than he does so they can afford to USE his services, thereby increasing his business.  

and lest anyone get confused Obama isn't talking about some crazy tax increase.  He wants to go back to the taxes that were paid under Clinton 39% instead of 36%...when we had a budget surplus and our economy was healthy.


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## Andrew2382 (Oct 16, 2008)

umm he was quoted for saying spread the wealth around...listen to it again Silence


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## Luissa (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> Daily Kos: Is 'Joe the Plumber' related to Charles Keating?
> 
> owns serval busninesses.
> 
> ...


If they are related the McCain camp is going to screw themselves on this!


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## chloe (Oct 16, 2008)

I have to admit, that when both Boys addressed Joe the Plumber I felt my face smile real big. McCain was kinda smirky when he spoke to Joe and made it seem like big Bad Obama will fine the heck outta Joe when Joe is RICH, and then When Obama talked to Joe it seemed like Obama he smirked too and for a split second it was as if both boys were about to laugh at the diggs they were throwing at each other under the guise of Joe the plumber. That was the fun highlight of the debate and the boys really made it funny.


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## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

Folks. McCain's buddies have as much right to question Obama on issues as Dems have to question McCain.

He asked a straight forward question. It isn't the question that matters. It's Obama's answer. Would he have answered it differently if he had thought the guy had more money? Would he have answered it differently if he'd known the man knows McCain? If he would, the Dems have a problem.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Joe the Plummer is not joe the Plummer and maybe that is what McCain was smirking at.

Maybe Obama already knew this and why he smiled while adressing the issue.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

sisterofyu said:


> I have to admit, that when both Boys addressed Joe the Plumber I felt my face smile real big. McCain was kinda smirky when he spoke to Joe and made it seem like big Bad Obama will fine the heck outta Joe when Joe is RICH, and then When Obama talked to Joe it seemed like Obama he smirked too and for a split second it was as if both boys were about to laugh at the diggs they were throwing at each other under the guise of Joe the plumber. That was the fun highlight of the debate and the boys really made it funny.



I've decided to vote for Joe the Plumber so he can chose for himself what kind of tax plan he likes. It would also help out all our other American plumbers who never get the kind of credit they deserve for keeping our shit flowing freely.


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## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

Who gives a shit, Truth? The question stands.

Unless you were going to vote for Joe.

Until after the debate, I thought he was just an imaginary person, anyway. I thought they were talking figuratively about "Joe the Plumber" like Palin was talking about "Joe Sixpack". I could care less who he is.


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## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> I've decided to vote for Joe the Plumber so he can chose for himself what kind of tax plan he likes. It would also help out all our other American plumbers who never get the kind of credit they deserve for keeping our shit flowing freely.



Our plumber was our best friend for many years. I'd vote for any plumber. If it weren't for plumbers, the US would quit functioning altogether.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> Who gives a shit, Truth? The question stands.
> 
> Unless you were going to vote for Joe.
> 
> Until after the debate, I thought he was just an imaginary person, anyway. I thought they were talking figuratively about "Joe the Plumber" like Palin was talking about "Joe Sixpack". I could care less who he is.





I care along with all the other people in this country who are sick of the lying decieving tactics of a completely failed party that constantly has to cheat the American people out of their sacred right to vote to win an election.

I care.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> I care along with all the other people in this country who are sick of the lying decieving tactics of a completely failed party that constantly has to cheat the American people out of their sacred right to vote to win an election.
> 
> I care.



only about liberal plumbers tho.


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## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> I care along with all the other people in this country who are sick of the lying decieving tactics of a completely failed party that constantly has to cheat the American people out of their sacred right to vote to win an election.
> 
> I care.



I know. The Democrats suck.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> only about liberal plumbers tho.




You better be carefull that Plummer of yours may not return your affections.


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## chloe (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> Joe the Plummer is not joe the Plummer and maybe that is what McCain was smirking at.
> 
> Maybe Obama already knew this and why he smiled while adressing the issue.



That could be, either way I enjoyed the exchange from both boys.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> You better be carefull that Plummer of yours may not return your affections.



I do all my own plumbing so I feel a special connection with Joe.

Do 'Plummers' grow fruit trees or what ?


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## Silence (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> Folks. McCain's buddies have as much right to question Obama on issues as Dems have to question McCain.
> 
> He asked a straight forward question. It isn't the question that matters. It's Obama's answer. Would he have answered it differently if he had thought the guy had more money? Would he have answered it differently if he'd known the man knows McCain? If he would, the Dems have a problem.



It's disingenuous Allie.  It's like when McCain and Clinton put plants in their hometown meetings to give them softball questions.  

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vFC9jv9jfoA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vFC9jv9jfoA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> [/youtube]

he did say "when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everyone"  at the end.  But you're taking what he said and making the argument that he wants to take money out of Joe's wallet and give it to some guy who isn't working.  Leading up to that statement he says "if the economy is good from the bottom up it's good for everyone"  Meaning if you can afford to pay more why not pay more so that others who are below you economically can afford to purchase your services and thereby give you more revenue too.  

I liked when Obama said "even if I don't get your vote, I'm still going to be working hard on your behalf"


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## Luissa (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> You better be carefull that Plummer of yours may not return your affections.


especially if he is in a union!


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## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

This dirty tactic didn't work.  I love it.  Can you imagine the McCain camp sat around plotting how they would put Joe the Plumber at one of Obama's rallies and they thought it was genius how they would set him up and now everyone knows it was a trick.  Joe is rich, and a Republican.  

And 95% don't feel sorry for the guy making $250k.

Again, if he makes $260k, he'll be taxed at a higher rate on the extra $10K and that will mean an extra $300 in taxes.

Let's not forget that the GOP, which includes McCain, gouged us at the pumps for YEARS.  Speculation made up 60% of the cost of gas.  The other day I filled up my tank and it was $10 less than it was a couple months ago.  52 weeks in a year x $10 is $520 the GOP taxed me via gas.  So boo fucking hoo Joe the "alleged" plumber.  Time to pay up!  

What Bush did was wealth distribution.  Obama is only going to put things back to where they were pre Bush.  And if McCain minds, that means this is yet another key thing that he agrees with Bush on.  So stop pretending to distance yourself from him.  You will rule the same way he does if the devil ever gets his way and you win.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Im sure he makes way more than 260,000 because he owns like four businesses.

It also shows McCain is still quietly close to Keating.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> Im sure he makes way more than 260,000 because he owns like four businesses.
> 
> It also shows McCain is still quietly close to Keating.



Poor Joe---now he's gonna be giving his bucks to people who have less than him. I would sue someone if I were Joe. He didn't ask for all this trouble. But then again-----pipe bombs   plumbers  ??????  We can never be too sure. He does have access !


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## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Poor Joe---now he's gonna be giving his bucks to people who have less than him. I would sue someone if I were Joe. He didn't ask for all this trouble. But then again-----pipe bombs   plumbers  ??????  We can never be too sure. He does have access !



I heard this Joe the Plumber has a domestic violence in his past.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> I heard this Joe the Plumber has a domestic violence in his past.



I'm still voting for him---I think he was framed by Bob the Electrician.


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## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> I'm still voting for him---I think he was framed by Bob the Electrician.



You're voting for Joe the Plumber?


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## Otter_Creek (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> I've decided to vote for Joe the Plumber so he can chose for himself what kind of tax plan he likes. It would also help out all our other American plumbers who never get the kind of credit they deserve for keeping our shit flowing freely.



Yeah, We should have a Golden Buttcrack Awards Trophy  every year for our brave plumbers.


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## Jon (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> They could not find a plummers licence under his name in Ohio either.



Yeah, but did they search for a plumber's license, too?


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Otter_Creek said:


> Yeah, We should have a Golden Buttcrack Awards Trophy  every year for our brave plumbers.



And a wall in Washington with pipes coming out of it all connected in some type of Rube Goldberg fashion.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Joel the Plumber - Achenblog


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## rayboyusmc (Oct 16, 2008)

> Does it matter? *Yes, it's called the truth.*The fact is, Obama wants to spread the wealth of small business owners, who are anything but rich. *Bullshit, Ali, read his plan.  He is giving tax breaks to small businesses that create jobs.* He wants to zap them with higher taxes.



Come on.  Let's hear some more of the bullshit about Class warfare.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

People need to realize this "joe" guy is related to Keating of the Keating 5 scandal.

You know the man the damn mess was named after because he was the criminal in the case who bribed McCain with land deals and free tropical trips?

This shows that McCain is still in cahoots with the crimimal Keating.


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## Jeepers (Oct 16, 2008)

Looks like this joe guy if his story is correct wouldnt be taxed anyway... 

"In an interview afterward with WTOL, Wurzelbacher acknowledged that he'd still like to eventually buy the plumbing company he works for but that he wouldn't yet be hit by higher taxes.

"I want to set the record straight: Currently I would not fall into Barack Obama's $250,000-plus," he said. "But if I'm lucky in business and taxes don't go up then maybe I can grow the business and be in that tax bracket - well, let me rephrase it. Hopefully, that tax won't be there." 

Checking facts: Will Obama raise small biz taxes? - Oct. 16, 2008


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> People need to realize this "joe" guy is related to Keating of the Keating 5 scandal.
> 
> You know the man the damn mess was named after because he was the criminal in the case who bribed McCain with land deals and free tropical trips?
> 
> This shows that McCain is still in cahoots with the crimimal Keating.





That's one of your most desperate attempts TM and that says a lot !

I'm still voting for Joe. He's probably smarter than all the rest of em when it comes to handling money and he can do his own repairs in the White House.


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## Jeepers (Oct 16, 2008)

Now CNN is saying that Joe is not a liscensed plumber..


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Jeepers said:


> Now CNN is saying that Joe is not a liscensed plumber..



I don't care---I bet he will show us his birth certificate--no questions asked.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

So you think its just a coincidence that this planted guy is Related to Keating?


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## Luissa (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> I don't care---I bet he will show us his birth certificate--no questions asked.


You guys really need to get over Obama's birth certificate especially when congress voted that both him and McCain are eligible to run!


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Luissa27 said:


> You guys really need to get over Obama's birth certificate especially when congress voted that both him and McCain are eligible to run!



I am over it----I'm voting for Joe the plumber and I encourage my fellow Americans to do the same. I'm having my bumper sticker printed up as we speak.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Dillo the clown is voting for a Keating relative?


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## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

Obama's related to the dirty Obama family who are making Kenyans miserable. Who cares?


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> Dillo the clown is voting for a Keating relative?



It's the other side of the family and Joe has told me personally that he doesn't like him.


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## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

jsanders said:


> Yeah, but did they search for a plumber's license, too?



I didn't see a plumbers crack on that guy either J.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> I didn't see a plumbers crack on that guy either J.



And Joe has dedicated hid whole life to keeping the environment clean !


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> Obama's related to the dirty Obama family who are making Kenyans miserable. Who cares?



Yeah but hes not planting them in creowds to ask phoney questions now is he?


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> Yeah but hes not planting them in creowds to ask phoney questions now is he?



Joe is real dammit--I heard it on TV


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## doeton (Oct 16, 2008)

i heard he shot his lady down.


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## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> Yeah but hes not planting them in creowds to ask phoney questions now is he?



He doesn't need to. THe press does it for him.
Did you read the thread about the "kill him" report being phony?
Besides which, it was a good question. And Obama flunked.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> He doesn't need to. THe press does it for him.
> Did you read the thread about the "kill him" report being phony?
> Besides which, it was a good question. And Obama flunked.



Joe has never yelled about killing anyone.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> He doesn't need to. THe press does it for him.
> Did you read the thread about the "kill him" report being phony?
> Besides which, it was a good question. And Obama flunked.




Nope its not phoney its just that  the SS did not hear it.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Now msnbc is outing the guy as a non plummer.

Hes thinking of canceling his planned interviews


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> Nope its not phoney its just that  the SS did not hear it.



Stop derailing this thread----It's about Joe, dammit


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## del (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> People need to realize this "joe" guy is related to Keating of the Keating 5 scandal.
> 
> You know the man the damn mess was named after because he was the criminal in the case who bribed McCain with land deals and free tropical trips?
> 
> This shows that McCain is still in cahoots with the crimimal Keating.



you betcha

check the edges of your hat;the rays are sneaking through


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## jillian (Oct 16, 2008)

Joe comes clean...



> Wurzelbacher said Obama's tax plan wouldn't affect him right now, because he doesn't make $250,000. "But I hope someday I'll make that," he said.



Retards voting against their self-interest.... maybe... IF you believe him. lol... 

'Plumber' says he has no plumbing license - The Debates - MSNBC.com


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

jillian said:


> Joe comes clean...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



voting for either one of these idiots is a vote against yourself interest


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## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

jillian said:


> Joe comes clean...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is so great.  This wipes out any good McCain did for himself last night.  

And Obama said that under his tax plan, Joe would have gotten more money back under his administration, and therefore Joe would have had an easier time saving up for a business, UNDER OBAMA.

I'd rather the President help more people make $250K, not like the GOP where they only help you IF you make $250k or more.


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## Shogun (Oct 16, 2008)

Looks like Mccain's response in this video matches his dud of a firecracker from Mr plummer..

[youtube]EASpPlcVbdI[/youtube]


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> This is so great.  This wipes out any good McCain did for himself last night.
> 
> And Obama said that under his tax plan, Joe would have gotten more money back under his administration, and therefore Joe would have had an easier time saving up for a business, UNDER OBAMA.
> 
> I'd rather the President help more people make $250K, not like the GOP where they only help you IF you make $250k or more.



Joe would help every single American and go on to save the world
VOTE FOR JOE


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## Otter_Creek (Oct 16, 2008)

Vote For Joe or..... You're a Racist!


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Joe would help every single American and go on to save the world
> VOTE FOR JOE







You are convincing me.


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## Andrew2382 (Oct 16, 2008)

umm, not really following this, just readin whats posted, but regardless of who he is, who asked the quesion isn't important...Obama's answer is the issue


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> You are convincing me.



I'm serious as a heart attack. I hoped Palin might get acknowledge as some outside of DC type but since that flopped I'm going with Joe. He has access to all the same people to put in his cabinet as these two do for advice. I swear he can do the job. VP choice has yet to be determined but he may wanna go with a union woman to balance the ticket. ( otherway around if he already is in one )      GO JOE !  YOU DA MAN


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## del (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> I'm serious as a heart attack. I hoped Palin might get acknowledge as some outside of DC type but since that flopped I'm going with Joe. He has access to all the same people to put in his cabinet as these two do for advice. I swear he can do the job. VP choice has yet to be determined but he may wanna go with a union woman to balance the ticket. ( otherway around if he already is in one )      GO JOE !  YOU DA MAN



i heard that he associated with non-union pipefitter types.
no way i'm voting for him

VOTE BOB THE BUILDER!!!


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## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

Seriously, he isn't a plumber? McCain hung his entire campaign on a liar?


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

del said:


> i heard that he associated with non-union pipefitter types.
> no way i'm voting for him
> 
> VOTE BOB THE BUILDER!!!



you asshole---Bob builds Wal marts !!!  He doesn't stand a chance and will just draw votes away from Joe !!


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Seriously, he isn't a plumber? McCain hung his entire campaign on a liar?




Hes not a Plummer, he owns like 4 businesses and is a relative of Charles Keating.

This one is going to backfire big time.


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## del (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> you asshole---Bob builds Wal marts !!!  He doesn't stand a chance and will just draw votes away from Joe !!



joe's going down the shitter one way or the other

Bob dresses better, always smiles and doesn't hardly blink at all

VOTE BOB


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## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

What is it with republicans and plumbers anyway?


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

del said:


> joe's going down the shitter one way or the other
> 
> Bob dresses better, always smiles and doesn't hardly blink at all
> 
> VOTE BOB



BOB you mean the uh Uh Uh uh dude ?  Shit he doesnt even wear a flag pin, never was in the sevice and is a member of the bowling comission.


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## jillian (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> What is it with republicans and plumbers anyway?



RAFLMAO!! Don't say stuff like that when I'm drining iced coffee...almost spit it at the computer screen.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

jillian said:


> RAFLMAO!! Don't say stuff like that when I'm drining iced coffee...almost spit it at the computer screen.



Joe had absolutely nothing to do with Watergate--he has been vindicated by a jury of carpenters.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

its the crack I think.

Im not sure if its the crack they take or the crack of the plummers though.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> its the crack I think.
> 
> Im not sure if its the crack they take or the crack of the plummers though.



Joe has already passed a piss test ---a test that the other candidates have YET to take I might add  !!


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## Silence (Oct 16, 2008)

Andrew2382 said:


> umm, not really following this, just readin whats posted, but regardless of who he is, who asked the quesion isn't important...Obama's answer is the issue



and Obama answered the question.  he said the guy wouldn't get taxed more if he made less than 250K a year (which the guy doesn't by his own admission) and whatever he made over the 250 up to 300K would be taxed at 39% just like it was under Clinton. 

I guess I'm confused as to what way the Cons are looking at this that makes it a bad outcome for Obama or any small businesses?  My sister owns a small business and trust me, she makes nowhere near 250K a year.


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## xsited1 (Oct 16, 2008)

> "Spread the wealth around!"  Barack Obama 2008





> "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."   Karl Marx  1875


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## WillowTree (Oct 16, 2008)

Whiny azzed libwals are at it again!


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Silence said:


> and Obama answered the question.  he said the guy wouldn't get taxed more if he made less than 250K a year (which the guy doesn't by his own admission) and whatever he made over the 250 up to 300K would be taxed at 39% just like it was under Clinton.
> 
> I guess I'm confused as to what way the Cons are looking at this that makes it a bad outcome for Obama or any small businesses?  My sister owns a small business and trust me, she makes nowhere near 250K a year.



he wasnt' quite clear about what spreading the money around meant but I think it speaks for itself really. 
Vote For Joe !


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## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

Silence said:


> and Obama answered the question.  he said the guy wouldn't get taxed more if he made less than 250K a year (which the guy doesn't by his own admission) and whatever he made over the 250 up to 300K would be taxed at 39% just like it was under Clinton.
> 
> I guess I'm confused as to what way the Cons are looking at this that makes it a bad outcome for Obama or any small businesses?  My sister owns a small business and trust me, she makes nowhere near 250K a year.


Quite honestly, I don't think they understand it. Maybe there aren't many Con small business owners. It is surprising that McCain doesn't understand it, though. I understand he's not really sharp on economic issues, but you'd think his advisers would have explained it to him the first time he brought it up, which was weeks ago.


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

del said:


> joe's going down the shitter one way or the other
> 
> Bob dresses better, always smiles and doesn't hardly blink at all
> 
> VOTE BOB



I knew the negative campaigning would start, I just didn't know it would start so soon.

Bob's a prick.


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## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Quite honestly, I don't think they understand it. Maybe there aren't many Con small business owners. It is surprising that McCain doesn't understand it, though. I understand he's not really sharp on economic issues, but you'd think his advisers would have explained it to him the first time he brought it up, which was weeks ago.



No, YOU don't get it. Someone who makes 2 million dollars and hires maybe a dozen workers gets an increase of $700,000 in taxes.

Whatdya think he's going to do? He's FIRING HIS WORKERS.

So why don't you understand that?


----------



## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> No, YOU don't get it. Someone who makes 2 million dollars and hires maybe a dozen workers gets an increase of $700,000 in taxes.
> 
> Whatdya think he's going to do? He's FIRING HIS WORKERS.
> 
> So why don't you understand that?


Small business owners only pay taxes on their own personal income, Allie. I could make 2 million dollars through my business, but if I only take out $100,000 in salary, that is ALL I pay taxes on.


----------



## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> No, YOU don't get it. Someone who makes 2 million dollars and hires maybe a dozen workers gets an increase of $700,000 in taxes.
> 
> Whatdya think he's going to do? He's FIRING HIS WORKERS.
> 
> So why don't you understand that?




Wow just wow, you have no idea what you are talking about do you?


----------



## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

> Oct. 16 (Bloomberg) -- ``Joe the plumber,'' the Toledo, Ohio, man whose complaints about Barack Obama's tax plan were featured in the final presidential debate, owes the state of Ohio almost $1,200 in back income taxes.





Bloomberg.com: Politics


----------



## Silence (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> he wasnt' quite clear about what spreading the money around meant but I think it speaks for itself really.
> Vote For Joe !



I get sick of saying this but taken in context of the entire conversation what Obama was saying is that by "joe the plumber" paying 3% more in taxes on anything over 250K a year it ultimately helps Joe out because then those people who don't make that kind of money can afford to actually hire him for his services.  

I know you aren't that stupid that you don't understand the concept.  

The irony is that Joe the plumber has admitted that Obama's tax increase wouldn't affect him anyway. in fact he'd likely see a tax reduction under Obama's plan.  I'm always amazed at people who vote against their own self interest.


----------



## rayboyusmc (Oct 16, 2008)

> No, YOU don't get it. Someone who makes 2 million dollars and hires maybe a dozen workers gets an *increase of $700,000 in taxes*.



If I make 2 million.  I will be taxed and extra 3% on the money above 250,000.00.  What is 3% of 1,750,00.00?  

So my tax increase is:  52,500.00 or 700,000.00.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Bloomberg.com: Politics



No way!  And co workers are starting to talk about how Joe isn't even a plumber!!!  I heard it this morning, but now people who don't even pay that close attention are starting to find out.   LOL


----------



## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

`Joe the Plumber,' Who Dislikes Obama Tax Plan, Owes Back Taxes 

By Ryan J. Donmoyer

Oct. 16 (Bloomberg) -- ``Joe the plumber,'' the Toledo, Ohio, man whose complaints about Barack Obama's tax plan were featured in the final presidential debate, owes the state of Ohio almost $1,200 in back income taxes. 

According to records on file with the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, the state filed a tax lien against Samuel J. Wurzelbacher for $1,182.98 on Jan. 26, 2007, that is still active. 

Wurzelbacher was thrust into the national spotlight this week when he told Obama he worried that the Illinois senator's proposals to roll back Bush administration tax breaks for Americans earning more than $250,000 would prevent him from buying a plumbing business that would earn between $250,000 and $280,000 a year.


----------



## Silence (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> No, YOU don't get it. Someone who makes 2 million dollars and hires maybe a dozen workers gets an increase of $700,000 in taxes.
> 
> Whatdya think he's going to do? He's FIRING HIS WORKERS.
> 
> So why don't you understand that?



is this man paying his workers out of his personal income Allie?  cuz that's what we're talking about!  

Shit you're a fucking idiot.


----------



## DiamondDave (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Small business owners only pay taxes on their own personal income, Allie. I could make 2 million dollars through my business, but if I only take out $100,000 in salary, that is ALL I pay taxes on.



Yeah... uh huh Ravi... the rest of the company profit is just swept to the wayside and untaxed?

No ravi... that is not the case... the business, whether llp, llc, or whatever will be taxed on your individual tax return of the full income, not just the 'salary' you set aside for yourself... that is still a tax on the small business owner... and with those taxes increasing and hurting the small business owner, it will indeed be passed on to the public


----------



## rayboyusmc (Oct 16, 2008)

Joe the Plumber is a plant. And he has a tax lien against him.

Plus he looks like Mr. Clean.

How can you trust a person like that.  He's probably a compassionate conservatory.


----------



## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Under Obama's proposal, Wurzelbacher would face about $900 more in taxes if he netted $280,000 of income from his new business, said Gerald Prante, a senior economist at the Tax Foundation, a Washington research group that is examining both candidates' plans. ``His average tax burden, the final bill he pays to the IRS isn't going to go up much if he's just making $280,000 a year,'' Prante said. He would face higher marginal tax costs to expand the business beyond that, he said. 

he would not buy the business because of 900 bucks?

yeah right.


----------



## jillian (Oct 16, 2008)

DiamondDave said:


> Yeah... uh huh Ravi... the rest of the company profit is just swept to the wayside and untaxed?
> 
> No ravi... that is not the case... the business, whether llp, llc, or whatever will be taxed on your individual tax return of the full income, not just the 'salary' you set aside for yourself... that is still a tax on the small business owner... and with those taxes increasing and hurting the small business owner, it will indeed be passed on to the public



And any money used to hire people would reduce the small business tax burden because it is DEDUCTIBLE.


----------



## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

He also owns other businesses and is a relative of Charles Keating.


----------



## Silence (Oct 16, 2008)

jillian said:


> And any money used to hire people would reduce the small business tax burden because it is DEDUCTIBLE.



 don't confuse them with the facts Jillian... 

Seriously, it's like watching my blind dog bump into the furniture.  I'd feel bad for ya if it weren't so damn funny.


----------



## jillian (Oct 16, 2008)

Silence said:


> don't confuse them with the facts Jillian...
> 
> Seriously, it's like watching my blind dog bump into the furniture.  I'd feel bad for ya if it weren't so damn funny.



It just amazes me when I see people support positions that go against their self-interest.... and then misstate the things they say they are against.


----------



## del (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> BOB you mean the uh Uh Uh uh dude ?  Shit he doesnt even wear a flag pin, never was in the sevice and is a member of the bowling comission.



i just found out bob has a confederate battle flag tattooed on his ass and worships bob vila in ceremonies reminiscent of devil worship

GO JOE!


----------



## WillowTree (Oct 16, 2008)

Just another day in libwaland!


----------



## Silence (Oct 16, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> Just another day in libwaland!



you know, I notice you pull this kind of crap out everytime your side is made to look like fools.


----------



## jillian (Oct 16, 2008)

Silence said:


> you know, I notice you pull this kind of crap out everytime your side is made to look like fools.



I thought it just bothered her that people were having fun and was going to offer her some money to go buy a sense of humor. *shrug*


----------



## DiamondDave (Oct 16, 2008)

jillian said:


> And any money used to hire people would reduce the small business tax burden because it is DEDUCTIBLE.



But if more profits are taxed, or more reinvestment monies one would normally use.... it still hurts the bottom line.. and that usually is fixed by less pay, less pay raises, or eliminating salary output in some other way... including the passing of the added burden onto the price to the public


----------



## rayboyusmc (Oct 16, 2008)

> Brian Kettenring, an ACORN spokesman, said its employees flagged questionable registration forms for election officials in 11 states, none of which is investigating the group. He also said he did not believe a `Mickey Mouse' voter registration card in Orlando, Fla., was submitted by an ACORN worker.



Has anyone seen the registration?  Wouldn't it be the shits if this Mickey Mouse charge was proved false.

I didn notice that Joe had a wrench on his shirt.


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

del said:


> i just found out bob has a confederate battle flag tattooed on his ass and worships bob vila in ceremonies reminiscent of devil worship
> 
> GO JOE!



I knew you didnt vette him thoughoughly !


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Bloomberg.com: Politics



Thats hilarious, and he wants to borrow money to start a plumbing business, sounds like a republican, borrow as much as you can but dont pay on what you owe, what a dumbass, this guy has no idea what he has gotten himself into, he will be ripped to shredds.


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> Thats hilarious, and he wants to borrow money to start a plumbing business, sounds like a republican, borrow as much as you can but dont pay on what you owe, what a dumbass, this guy has no idea what he has gotten himself into, he will be ripped to shredds.



No he won't --he is going for matching federal funding so he can pull it off. He's got a few community organizers in his back pocket too !


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> Under Obama's proposal, Wurzelbacher would face about $900 more in taxes if he netted $280,000 of income from his new business, said Gerald Prante, a senior economist at the Tax Foundation, a Washington research group that is examining both candidates' plans. ``His average tax burden, the final bill he pays to the IRS isn't going to go up much if he's just making $280,000 a year,'' Prante said. He would face higher marginal tax costs to expand the business beyond that, he said.
> 
> he would not buy the business because of 900 bucks?
> 
> yeah right.



First of all if he had half a brain he would write off the kitchen sink until it was under $250k, this example will not be a major player on how Obama's tax plan will effect small businesses.


----------



## Stoner (Oct 16, 2008)

You all got it all wrong.  Here's the best plummer...


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Stoner said:


> You all got it all wrong.  Here's the best plummer...



ya  Snake would be a cool VP !!!


----------



## jillian (Oct 16, 2008)

DiamondDave said:


> But if more profits are taxed, or more reinvestment monies one would normally use.... it still hurts the bottom line.. and that usually is fixed by less pay, less pay raises, or eliminating salary output in some other way... including the passing of the added burden onto the price to the public



If you're reinvesting the money and not putting it into savings, then that wouldn't be taxed either.

A continuation of the absurd and injurious policies of the last two terms is just silly. We are where we are in significant part because of the right's idea that voodoo economics work. There's no such thing as trickle down. And, there is nothing unfair about going back to the same tax rates for the rich that existed during the prosperous Clinton years.


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> Just another day in libwaland!



have you ever made 1 valid point on this board?  Everyday you say the same bullshit  "stupid liberals spewing bs", did you ride the fricken short bus to school?


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> have you ever made 1 valid point on this board?  Everyday you say the same bullshit  "stupid liberals spewing bs", did you ride the fricken short bus to school?



Joe can fix those short busses so no one can tell who's who !


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> No he won't --he is going for matching federal funding so he can pull it off. He's got a few community organizers in his back pocket too !



Who are his organizers, Joe the electrician, joe the Homo, Joe the chinese delivery man.  This whole Joe thing is a fricken joke, Joe is a typical blue collar republican, he doesnt really know why he is a republican, he just is.


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Joe can fix those short busses so no one can tell who's who !



Your a little silly today, have you been drinking?


----------



## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> Your a little silly today, have you been drinking?



No --I'm ecstactic to finally have a candidate who I actually can support. McCain and Obama messed up and gave him a lot of free publicity.
( don't drink--don't do drugs )


----------



## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

This guy just trashed his and his kids life.

Note to people : if you are going to speak out like this make sure you dont give your name to anyone and be sure to not lie.


----------



## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Not joe the plummer either?

Come on guys you liked him an hour ago?


----------



## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

I'm failing to understand why the character of Joe matters. Who cares? Obama's answer revealed his plan, which is to redistribute wealth, and make everyone...except for him and his closest friends...dirt poor.


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> No --I'm ecstactic to finally have a candidate who I actually can support. McCain and Obama messed up and gave him a lot of free publicity.
> ( don't drink--don't do drugs )



A guy who lies and cant pay his bills, why dont you just vote for Mccain.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

DiamondDave said:


> Yeah... uh huh Ravi... the rest of the company profit is just swept to the wayside and untaxed?
> 
> No ravi... that is not the case... the business, whether llp, llc, or whatever will be taxed on your individual tax return of the full income, not just the 'salary' you set aside for yourself... that is still a tax on the small business owner... and with those taxes increasing and hurting the small business owner, it will indeed be passed on to the public


Only the owner's personal income is taxed. And no, the rest of the companies "profit" isn't swept away, it becomes the owner's (or owners) profit to be taxed as each owner's personal income tax. Everything else can be written off as a company expense.

So unless the owner, or owners, end up with over $250,000 in personal income, their tax liability will not change.


----------



## ABikerSailor (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> I'm failing to understand why the character of Joe matters. Who cares? Obama's answer revealed his plan, which is to redistribute wealth, and make everyone...except for him and his closest friends...dirt poor.



You fail to understand quite a bit Always Babbling.

Joe the Plumber is a fake.  He doesn't have a liscence in ANY state.  I was kinda wondering last night during the debate why McCain brought him up (especially after he mispronounced his name).  After one or two references to Joe, the next thing ya know, McStupid is talking about Joe like he's his best friend and knows him well (he doesn't), and then started talking directly to the tv cameras TO FUCKING JOE!

Now.....I ask you....if McStupid didn't plant Joe in Obama's rally, how the fuck did he know so much about him?


----------



## ABikerSailor (Oct 16, 2008)

Oh yeah....I can also answer why Repugnicans are so enamored of plumbers.......

They're usually full of shit and like to have their pipes cleaned.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

DiamondDave said:


> But if more profits are taxed, or more reinvestment monies one would normally use.... it still hurts the bottom line.. and that usually is fixed by less pay, less pay raises, or eliminating salary output in some other way... including the passing of the added burden onto the price to the public


Wrong again. If the owner's don't want to take a big profit, they are welcome to use money they would pay themselves as a salary for someone else, or to buy equipment, etc. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

rayboyusmc said:


> Has anyone seen the registration?  Wouldn't it be the shits if this Mickey Mouse charge was proved false.
> 
> I didn notice that Joe had a wrench on his shirt.


Maybe Joe the plumber _is_ Mickey Mouse.


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> I'm failing to understand why the character of Joe matters. Who cares? Obama's answer revealed his plan, which is to redistribute wealth, and make everyone...except for him and his closest friends...dirt poor.



It really doesnt, what matters is that Mccain lied to make it sound like Obama would raise taxes on small businesses.  Your on here everyday talking about this and you still refuse to look at the plans for what they are.   Like I said yesterday, I have looked at about 1000 tax returns in my life and maybe 5% or so have a net over $250k.  I have seen S-corps with over a mil in gross show a net loss or a very minimal net.


----------



## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

Not unless Micky is related to Charles Keating


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Wrong again. If the owner's don't want to take a big profit, they are welcome to use money they would pay themselves as a salary for someone else, or to buy equipment, etc. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.



I know small business owners who have EVERYTHING paid thru the business.  Their car, homes, bills, gas, weekend dinners, trips, etc.  So they only show a $40k salary and in reality, they are making much more than they show Uncle Sam.

If the owner of a small business is SHOWING $250k salary, imagine what he or she is really making.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> I know small business owners who have EVERYTHING paid thru the business.  Their car, homes, bills, gas, weekend dinners, trips, etc.  So they only show a $40k salary and in reality, they are making much more than they show Uncle Sam.
> 
> If the owner of a small business is SHOWING $250k salary, imagine what he or she is really making.


Um, that is dishonest. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it certainly is scamming the system.


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> I know small business owners who have EVERYTHING paid thru the business.  Their car, homes, bills, gas, weekend dinners, trips, etc.  So they only show a $40k salary and in reality, they are making much more than they show Uncle Sam.
> 
> If the owner of a small business is SHOWING $250k salary, imagine what he or she is really making.



Bingo, thats why Obama's plan is better and Mccain is lying.


----------



## jillian (Oct 16, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> I know small business owners who have EVERYTHING paid thru the business.  Their car, homes, bills, gas, weekend dinners, trips, etc.  So they only show a $40k salary and in reality, they are making much more than they show Uncle Sam.
> 
> If the owner of a small business is SHOWING $250k salary, imagine what he or she is really making.



And if those small business owners get audited by the IRS, they're screwed. Dumb to do stuff like that.


----------



## AllieBaba (Oct 16, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> It really doesnt, what matters is that Mccain lied to make it sound like Obama would raise taxes on small businesses.  Your on here everyday talking about this and you still refuse to look at the plans for what they are.   Like I said yesterday, I have looked at about 1000 tax returns in my life and maybe 5% or so have a net over $250k.  I have seen S-corps with over a mil in gross show a net loss or a very minimal net.



He will. A business that makes $2 mill that has to pay $700,000+ in taxes is a death knell for small business, and for the middle class and lower class people they hire.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> He will. A business that makes $2 mill that has to pay $700,000+ in taxes is a death knell for small business, and for the middle class and lower class people they hire.


It's official. Allie is a troll. Or a retard.


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Um, that is dishonest. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it certainly is scamming the system.



Its not dishonest, your accountant will have you write off as much as possible within the law, thats not dishonest.  It keeps small businesses from paying a boat load of taxes at the end of the year, if you lie and get caught then your up shits creek but thats another topic.


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> He will. A business that makes $2 mill that has to pay $700,000+ in taxes is a death knell for small business, and for the middle class and lower class people they hire.



A business that has a net of 2mil is not a small business, what the hell is wrong with you.  Do you mean 2 mill gross or net?, if they netted 2mill they probably made almost 2 times that in gross.


----------



## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> It's official. Allie is a troll. Or a retard.



Why not both?

Least McCain will help her get some services then since he wants to help the special needs children.

Oh wait, he can't if he freezes spending across the board.


----------



## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

I feel so sorry for peopel who feel compelled out of habit (or what ever it is)  to defend this current republican party.

It has nothing but contempt for the average voter and works in the favor or the 1% wealthiest people in this country.

You just know they get together adn just laugh at people like Allie who defend and vote for their own ownership.


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Why not both?
> 
> Least McCain will help her get some services then since he wants to help the special needs children.
> 
> Oh wait, he can't if he freezes spending across the board.



How the hell is her rep 61, who the fuck is repping Allie babble.  Show yourself now.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> Um, that is dishonest. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it certainly is scamming the system.



That's why it's a joke that the GOP keep saying we need to further cut taxes on corporations so they can be competitive.  They keep putting more and more of the tax burden on us, the middle class, or they just keep racking up the debt, which is ours to pay off.  Or our grandkids, or their grandkids.

Wall Street's biggest banks cooked up elaborate "derivatives gimmicks" over the past decade to help their best foreign clients dodge the tax man, U.S. Senate investigators allege, the Wall Street Journal reports this morning. The racket cost the country $100 billion a year in unpaid taxes, the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations charges. The yearlong investigation, the newspaper says, "concludes that Wall Street firms actively competed with one another in dreaming up complex transactions that allowed hedge funds to avoid withholding taxes imposed on dividends paid by U.S. companies." The Financial Times says the biggest banks on the Street have been named in the tax-dodge probe, including Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley, Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, UBS, and Merrill Lynch. They will testify today, along with a variety of hedge funds, the newspaper adds.

Wall Street's $100 billion tax dodge. - By Bernhard Warner - Slate Magazine


Most Companies Pay No Federal Income Tax
Most Companies Pay No Federal Income Tax, GAO Study Also Finds 68% Of Foreign Companies In U.S. Avoid Corporate Taxes - CBS News

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes
Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | U.S. | Reuters

ABC News: Most Companies in US Avoid Federal Income Taxes

Between fiscal years 1998 and 2005, two out of every three U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes. 

According to the General Accounting Office and Chris Edwards of the libertarian Cato Institute more than 38,000 foreign companies and 1,200,000 U.S. companies paid no income taxes yet combined had $2,500,000,000,000 in sales.

About 25% of the U.S. companies were considered "large corporations" having at least $50,000,000 in receipts or $250,000,000 in corporate assets.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> Its not dishonest, your accountant will have you write off as much as possible within the law, thats not dishonest.  It keeps small businesses from paying a boat load of taxes at the end of the year, if you lie and get caught then your up shits creek but thats another topic.


I was assuming they were doing it illegally.


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

jillian said:


> And if those small business owners get audited by the IRS, they're screwed. Dumb to do stuff like that.



Somehow I think it is all legit.  From my previous post, you'll see a lot of shady tax laws were passed in the last 8 years to help business owners.

But I doubt Bush passed something to help my buddy, because he's just a small business owner.  And even they aren't voting for McCain.  That's how you know the GOP is cooked.  If small business' aren't even voting for them?

And my brother makes $400k a year and he isn't voting for McCain either!  He was always a Democrat but since he's made his way up to VP at his corporation, I've seen republican tendencies for the last couple years.  We even got into a couple of arguments.  But now he's voting Obama.  He said, "If the GOP stay in charge, my company will move overseas and I won't have a job".


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> A business that has a net of 2mil is not a small business, what the hell is wrong with you.  Do you mean 2 mill gross or net?, if they netted 2mill they probably made almost 2 times that in gross.



Isn't the definition based on how many employees they have and not how much they make?


----------



## Modbert (Oct 16, 2008)

jschuck12001 said:


> How the hell is her rep 61, who the fuck is repping Allie babble.  Show yourself now.



Republicans who agree with her but never say it out loud because they realize how crazy it sounds.


----------



## jillian (Oct 16, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Somehow I think it is all legit.  From my previous post, you'll see a lot of shady tax laws were passed in the last 8 years to help business owners.
> 
> But I doubt Bush passed something to help my buddy, because he's just a small business owner.  And even they aren't voting for McCain.  That's how you know the GOP is cooked.  If small business' aren't even voting for them?
> 
> And my brother makes $400k a year and he isn't voting for McCain either!  He was always a Democrat but since he's made his way up to VP at his corporation, I've seen republican tendencies for the last couple years.  We even got into a couple of arguments.  But now he's voting Obama.  He said, "If the GOP stay in charge, my company will move overseas and I won't have a job".



one of the surest ways to get audited is to take any part of your home expenses as a deduction.


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> I was assuming they were doing it illegally.



Well, You would be nuts to do that and you would have to do it yourself because I doubt you would find an accountant to flat out lie about your returns.  There are certain thresholds that you can take deductions to before it flags at the IRS.  My accountant is in New Jersey and he was an auditor for the IRS for 25 years.  He's been awesome.  I think there are 2 sides to this.  The small guy and the large corp and they are getting bundled into one during this tax debate.  The small guy is usually paying some taxes unless his business is in distress but like Sealy said, you have major corps not paying a dime so the loopholes are the issue and thats something Obama talks about and Mccain doesnt


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

Modbert said:


> Republicans who agree with her but never say it out loud because they realize how crazy it sounds.



Sort of like people don't agree with me because I'm seen as too extreme?  

I don't want to be the liberal version of Allie 

But I know sometimes I am.  

So I'll try to  my mouth when you guys tell me I'm getting bad.  I'm like the Biden of these boards.  LOL.


----------



## jschuck12001 (Oct 16, 2008)

jillian said:


> one of the surest ways to get audited is to take any part of your home expenses as a deduction.



I have for years Jillian.  Never been audited but if I do my Accountant will represent me for free and he has never lost a case.  He was an auditor for 25 years, you just need a good accountant and who better than someone who knows all the tricks of the trade.  I can give you his info if you want.

http://carptaxservices.com/info/about.htm


----------



## sealybobo (Oct 16, 2008)

jillian said:


> one of the surest ways to get audited is to take any part of your home expenses as a deduction.



Ok so maybe he treats it as a rental.  He has more than one home.

I don't know all that he does.  I just know he's got a great big home for the company he owns.

It's a UPS Store.  Sometimes I think he may be doing some shady shit like mailing drugs or god knows what.

But he's smart enough that if he is doing something shady, not even I know about it.


----------



## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

I'm starting to feel sorry for Joe. I doubt he asked for all this world of shit. It's too damn bad McCain made such a big lie out of a simple question.


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## CA95380 (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> Does it matter? The fact is, Obama wants to spread the wealth of small business owners, who are anything but rich. He wants to zap them with higher taxes.




Sorry Allie ... but it does matter.  If he was a* plant* ... it matters.  He is a disgrace to every plummer in the country!  

Kudo's to *Truthmatters* for pointing these *facts* out!  

I am sick of the mudslinging and McCain/Palin seem to have made the act  of slinging "shit"  their platform - _"if you have nothing to contribute to the country .... just throw out more mud/and or shit!" _   Shame on them!


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> I'm starting to feel sorry for Joe. I doubt he asked for all this world of shit. It's too damn bad McCain made such a big lie out of a simple question.



Joe will be OK. All you have to do is vote for him and send you large checks to Dillo, campaign manager.


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

sealybobo said:


> Sort of like people don't agree with me because I'm seen as too extreme?
> 
> I don't want to be the liberal version of Allie
> 
> ...



YAY!!!!!!!!!!! 

I repped Allie once, I think, to thank her for her passion on something.... Mighta just been a pm, but I think it was a pos rep. 

I try to pos rep lots of people, if I haven't floated one by you (all 6 measly points I have) lmk and I will.


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## hjmick (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> They could not find a plummers licence under his name in Ohio either.



Ohio does not have a formal statewide licensing system for plumbers.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

hjmick said:


> Ohio does not have a formal statewide licensing system for plumbers.



SEE  I told you it's a vast double winged conspiracy against Joe. It couldn't be more apparent and if you can't see it you're just a stupid liar.


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> SEE  I told you it's a vast double winged conspiracy against Joe. It couldn't be more apparent and if you can't see it you're just a stupid liar.



You sound like a partisan hack. You make me ashamed of my fellow Wurzel-backers.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> You sound like a partisan hack. You make me ashamed of my fellow Wurzel-backers.



I'm willing to concede that if Joe ever died that someone else could step in and keep the nation afloat until his kid grew up. Joe is against all forms of crazy hate but realizes some forms may be required in certain circumstances that are beyond one's control. 

GO JOE


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

I like how he calls himself a flash in the pants (I *think* that is what he said....) Man of the people!

GO JOE!

[youtube]mo-r_EylMag[/youtube]


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

hjmick said:


> Ohio does not have a formal statewide licensing system for plumbers.



Contractor Licensing - Ohio Plumbing License


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> I like how he calls himself a flash in the pants (I *think* that is what he said....) Man of the people!
> 
> GO JOE!
> 
> [youtube]mo-r_EylMag[/youtube]



Hard to tell in that clip but Joe has a pretty damn good sense of humor too.
I've shaved my head in support of Joe but he understands that maybe Brittney and Sinead are the only females that want to go to those extremes.
It's cool with Joe. He's loves women and thinks they shouuld get to do whatever they want. Everyone else too.


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## Truthmatters (Oct 16, 2008)

He loves women?

be careful here.

There is a possibility that he is a man of this same name who has domestic violence on his record.


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## AVG-JOE (Oct 16, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> Who gives a shit, Truth? The question stands.
> 
> Unless you were going to vote for Joe.
> 
> Until after the debate, I thought he was just an imaginary person, anyway. I thought they were talking figuratively about *"Joe the Plumber"* like Palin was talking about *"Joe Sixpack"*. I could care less who he is.



Only _one_ of these guys is your 'Average' Joe...



-Joe


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> He loves women?
> 
> be careful here.
> 
> There is a possibility that he is a man of this same name who has domestic violence on his record.



That was a frame job by the carpenter--Joe has already explained that---next question !


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## Paulie (Oct 16, 2008)

Ravi said:


> He isn't very bright.
> 
> BBC NEWS | Americas | US Elections 2008 | Profile: Joe Wurzelbacher
> 
> Taxes would only be owed on personal salaries, not what the company earned. He should stick to plumbing and forget about buying his own business. He'll be in the toilet in no time.



I think it has less to do with how smart or dumb _HE_ may be, and more to do with how gullible the electorate will be when they mistakenly assume that was correct without putting any critical thought into it.

It must be so easy to run for office anymore in this country.


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## dilloduck (Oct 16, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> I think it has less to do with how smart or dumb _HE_ may be, and more to do with how gullible the electorate will be when they mistakenly assume that was correct without putting any critical thought into it.
> 
> It must be so easy to run for office anymore in this country.



Can you imagine ?  Critical thought ?  Are you kidding me ? 
Just vote for Joe---he's a good guy. No terrorist buddies and he's young and healthy. What else do ya need ? ( oh--np on the little birth certificate thing either and he didn't dump his wife to marry someone just because they were hot and rich )


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## AVG-JOE (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Poor Joe---*now he's gonna be giving his bucks to people who have less than him.* I would sue someone if I were Joe. He didn't ask for all this trouble. But then again-----pipe bombs   plumbers  ??????  We can never be too sure. He does have access !



You people are driving me nuts!

Nobody is going to be getting any 'bucks' from anyone else!  If there is significant change, all that is going to happen is that 'Better than Average Joe' is going to pay more than 'Average Joe' for government services that are already running deep in the red!

Nobody is going to "GET" anything.  Those who are so poorly skilled at earning a living in this country that they pay no taxes, will still pay nothing.  Those doing o.k. will pay a little less than they had been paying and those who are kickin' ass and taking names in the marketplace will pay a little more.  If we can combine this with some serious spending cuts and convert welfare dollars to education dollars, our best days may just be both ahead and close enough for even an old fart like me to see them dawn.

The plan to build the economy from the bottom up that Obama proposes makes sense to 'Joe the Photographer'... _Your_ Average Joe.  

-Joe


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## Ravi (Oct 16, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> I think it has less to do with how smart or dumb _HE_ may be, and more to do with how gullible the electorate will be when they mistakenly assume that was correct without putting any critical thought into it.
> 
> It must be so easy to run for office anymore in this country.


Or the opposite. With google, all lies are eventually exposed. But people still tend to believe what they want to believe.


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Hard to tell in that clip but Joe has a pretty damn good sense of humor too.
> I've shaved my head in support of Joe but he understands that maybe Brittney and Sinead are the only females that want to go to those extremes.
> It's cool with Joe. He's loves women and thinks they shouuld get to do whatever they want. Everyone else too.



LOLOLOL. That is so amazing.  I'm growing a goatee in support of Joe. 

Go Joe!!!


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## Caligirl (Oct 16, 2008)

AVG-JOE said:


> You people are driving me nuts!
> 
> 
> <snip>
> ...



You sound like a goddamn elitist. Photographer? Oh sure. An artiste!!!

There's only one Joe for this goatee-growing Caligirl, and that's Joe Wurzelbacher! Who is NOT just another average Joe!!!!

LOL no disrespect sir.


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## hjmick (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> Contractor Licensing - Ohio Plumbing License



I stand corrected. It's been a while since I was in Ohio. There was a time, though...


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## del (Oct 16, 2008)

Truthmatters said:


> Contractor Licensing - Ohio Plumbing License



that's for a plumbing contractor's license, not a plumber's license.

i'll add construction trades to the list of things you know nothing about.
and a website for a license mill isn't particularly compelling. 

Contractor Licensing - Contractors License Exam Review

now, as you were saying......


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## Charles_Main (Oct 16, 2008)

Share the wealth does equal SOCIALISM!!


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## del (Oct 16, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> I knew you didnt vette him thoughoughly !



i didn't even know he had a car.


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## Diuretic (Oct 16, 2008)

Charles_Main said:


> Share the wealth does equal SOCIALISM!!



No it doesn't.  That's simple redistribution.  Socialism is broader and deeper than that.


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## AVG-JOE (Oct 16, 2008)

Caligirl said:


> You sound like a goddamn elitist. Photographer? Oh sure. An artiste!!!
> 
> There's only one Joe for this goatee-growing Caligirl, and that's Joe Wurzelbacher! Who is NOT just another average Joe!!!!
> 
> LOL no disrespect sir.



How 'elite' can I be with expenses that total $1,600 per month for two people?

Photographer, carpenter, machine and parts sales, software packager, long-haul trucker, dump-truck driver and bartender...

Oh, yeah... I'm elite.  That is why I'm unemployed in Florida this year instead of Washington - I'd prefer to travel than have a 'real' job.

-Joe


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## Red Dawn (Oct 16, 2008)

Charles_Main said:


> Share the wealth does equal SOCIALISM!!




So every single, Liberal democratic developed country on the planet are socialist because they all have some form of progressive taxation?  

Care to provide a link from a credible source that classifies Japan, South Korea, Britain, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark as socialist countries? 

If you're right, socialism rules!  Socialism must be the most successful and egalitarian economic system ever devised, because all those countries are relatively prosperous, peaceful, and egalitarian.


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## AVG-JOE (Oct 16, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> So every single, Liberal democratic developed country on the planet are socialist because they all have some form of progressive taxation?
> 
> Care to provide a link from a credible source that classifies Japan, South Korea, Britain, Germany, Netherlands, Switzerland, Denmark as socialist countries?
> 
> If you're right, socialism rules!  Socialism must be the most successful and egalitarian economic system ever devised, because all those countries are relatively prosperous, peaceful, and egalitarian.



Somewhere between dog-eat-dog capitalism and state-owned worker communism is a blend of social democracy that entitles its citizens to _relevant_ education and maintains a productive infrastructure using fairly collected taxes.

In my opinion banking and insurance should be pools of money managed by the people - that is a socialist view.  I also believe that those are the _only_ industries that should be nationalized, as they actually produce nothing relevant to the economy.  That is a capitalist view.

Oh look... I didn't explode or melt.

-Joe


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## Larkinn (Oct 16, 2008)

Charles_Main said:


> Share the wealth does equal SOCIALISM!!



In the name of anti-socialism, we should then concentrate all the wealth in one individual.

I nominate me.   Send the checks over.  Thanks.


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