# Another moment of gun self defense...no shots fired, armed robber runs away.  A woman uses gun to save herself.....



## 2aguy (May 13, 2022)

We are told people never use their legal guns for self defense.....that this is just a myth....and yet...actual research shows that it happens a lot....and by a lot the research by the CDC shows about 1.1 million times a year....

As in most cases...the criminal runs away, since they aren't robbing people to get shot........here we have a woman, likely smaller than her attacker, who simply draws her gun and points it at the armed robber, and he runs away....

I originally saw this at Bearing Arms.....

*The victim told police a man, later identified as Garland Adams, walked up to her and asked for money. When she didn’t give him money, he pulled out a gun and pointed it at her face, according to the probable cause affidavit.*

*The woman then backed up and pulled out a pink handgun of her own, reports said.

The man then fled on his bike.*

*Two people at a gas station nearby witnessed the incident.*











						Woman pulls out gun to thwart would-be robber
					

A man who pointed a gun at a woman after asking her for money, fled after she pulled out a gun of her own, according to court records. He is now facing one count of intimidation.




					www.abc57.com
				




The woman, being a normal human being....did not shoot the criminal....as soon as he broke off the attack, she did not fire.......

The woman does not appear to be an off duty police officer.....she is not a Navy SEAL.......she used her gun to stop the robbery without firing a shot, without hitting, wounding or killing the attacker....


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## Blues Man (May 13, 2022)

This is a fact that no gun control freak will ever acknowledge.

A gun does not have to be fired and no one has to be shot in any self defense with a firearm incident.  The fact that so few people get shot and killed in self defense  is proof that people who own and carry guns legally are exhibiting great restraint and not that violent crimes aren't happening or won;t happen.

There is no law abiding that legally owns and carries firearms because they want to shoot and kill people.


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## Penelope (May 13, 2022)

Suicide =guns. Once the trigger is pulled, there no going back.


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

false
The rose bowl seats 92,000 and change.  He expects you to believe that everyone you see below has defended themselves with a gun in the last year….


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

The fence outside of my condo stopped 3 billion robberies last year.  It never fired a shot either.


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## Blues Man (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> false
> The rose bowl seats 92,000 and change.  He expects you to believe that everyone you see below has defended themselves with a gun in the last year….


92K out of 330 million people

That's an extremely small percentage


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## Muhammed (May 13, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Suicide =guns. Once the trigger is pulled, there no going back.


Same thing with fent & meth. Ask George Floyd.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (May 13, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We are told people never use their legal guns for self defense.....that this is just a myth....and yet...actual research shows that it happens a lot....and by a lot the research by the CDC shows about 1.1 million times a year....
> 
> As in most cases...the criminal runs away, since they aren't robbing people to get shot........here we have a woman, likely smaller than her attacker, who simply draws her gun and points it at the armed robber, and he runs away....
> 
> ...


Why a laser on the rail is a good idea.  Blinding them is easier to clean up after than killing them.


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> 92K out of 330 million people
> 
> That's an extremely small percentage


92K per picture....about 1.2M people who supposedly fended off an invader with a gun.

If you're like most people, you don't know anyone who was in a shootout last year.  You don't know anyone who knows anyone who was in a shootout last year.  

It happens so infrequently that the OP can itemize every alleged defensive gun use.  Yet every so often we get this hilarious claim that there is a gun defense several thousand times a day in this nation.





There should be 3,286 other stories about someone fighting off an attacker yesterday.... where are they?


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## Hugo Furst (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> The fence outside of my condo stopped 3 billion robberies last year.  It never fired a shot either.


as usual, not much candy, but a lot of corn.


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## Blues Man (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> 92K per picture....about 1.2M people who supposedly fended off an invader with a gun.
> 
> If you're like most people, you don't know anyone who was in a shootout last year.  You don't know anyone who knows anyone who was in a shootout last year.
> 
> ...


Even the lowest estimates of DGU per year put the number over 500K

So no matter how you slice it more people use guns for self defense than get murdered by people using guns.

And even if there were ZERO DGUs  per year that is no reason to make it harder for law abiding people to own and carry guns.

I've always said law abiding gun owners are a completely neutral factor in crime stats  murder.


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Even the lowest estimates of DGU per year put the number over 500K
> 
> So no matter how you slice it more people use guns for self defense than get murdered by people using guns.
> 
> ...


So now it's half.  How hilarious.  How come we don't hear about these 1,500+ defensive gun uses a day?  There may be one instance a week that makes the news.  Seems like these shoot-outs would be front page news. 

I'm sure you'll make up some excuse.  Hop to it.


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Suicide =guns. Once the trigger is pulled, there no going back.


How does that relate to the topic at hand?


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> So now it's half.  How hilarious.  How come we don't hear about these 1,500+ defensive gun uses a day?  There may be one instance a week that makes the news.  Seems like these shoot-outs would be front page news.
> 
> I'm sure you'll make up some excuse.  Hop to it.


Because no one wants to go through the hours and mountains of red tape involved in calling the police to report the DGU, then having to deal with an overzealous cop who confiscates the gun pending an investigation. After all, you just admitted to pulling your gun out in public, which triggers all kinds of questions. The assailant is gone, no one is hurt, no one has lost anything. Many would consider it better to just finish their evening and go home unharmed. Would you go through all that or prefer to be left alone? See, that's really what all this comes down to. Most of these people just want to be left alone.

And, as has been pointed out repeatedly, these aren't shoot-outs, they're potential victims demonstrating that they are armed and the assailant running off because whatever he was after isn't worth getting perforated.


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> 92K per picture....about 1.2M people who supposedly fended off an invader with a gun.
> 
> If you're like most people, you don't know anyone who was in a shootout last year.  You don't know anyone who knows anyone who was in a shootout last year.
> 
> ...


You are deliberately being obtuse. You know full well these are not violent encounters, they are simply people serving notice to an assailant that they are armed. No fight, no shots fired, no one gets hurt, just communication sent and received.


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

hadit said:


> You are deliberately being obtuse. You know full well these are not violent encounters, they are simply people serving notice to an assailant that they are armed. No fight, no shots fired, no one gets hurt, just communication sent and received.


And strangely seldom reported.


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

hadit said:


> Because no one wants to go through the hours and mountains of red tape involved in calling the police to report the DGU, then having to deal with an overzealous cop who confiscates the gun pending an investigation. After all, you just admitted to pulling your gun out in public, which triggers all kinds of questions. The assailant is gone, no one is hurt, no one has lost anything. Many would consider it better to just finish their evening and go home unharmed. Would you go through all that or prefer to be left alone? See, that's really what all this comes down to. Most of these people just want to be left alone.
> 
> And, as has been pointed out repeatedly, these aren't shoot-outs, they're potential victims demonstrating that they are armed and the assailant running off because whatever he was after isn't worth getting perforated.


As predicted...a completely and thoroughly hilarious explanation.


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Why a laser on the rail is a good idea.  Blinding them is easier to clean up after than killing them.


Also a lot harder to pull off. You would have to hit their eyes, not an easy feat. I'm all for non-lethal forms of defense, but they have to be practical.


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> As predicted...a completely and thoroughly hilarious explanation.


I'll put it to you. What would you do in that situation, go through all that or just go home in peace?


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

hadit said:


> I'll put it to you. What would you do in that situation, go through all that or just go home in peace?


I'd probably tell the police that there is someone running around trying to terrorize the neighborhood.  Gun owners probably are not as conscientious as I am though.

What would you do?  Just let your fellow citizens find out on their own?


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> And strangely seldom reported.


Why do they have to be reported? Would you call the cops and tell them you pulled a gun out in a public place, even in a concealed carry state? You do one thing wrong and you get charged with a crime.


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> I'd probably tell the police that there is someone running around trying to terrorize the neighborhood.  Gun owners probably are not as conscientious as I am though.


You would tell them you pulled your gun on him, given that you could be charged with something if you did one thing wrong? Apparently, you are not someone who just wants to be left alone.


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

hadit said:


> You would tell them you pulled your gun on him, given that you could be charged with something if you did one thing wrong?


What would you do?  Let the rapist or whatever just run free...and not tell the cops?


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> What would you do?  Let the rapist or whatever just run free...and not tell the cops?


It depends on the situation. If I was likely to end up more hassled than the potential assailant, maybe not.


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

hadit said:


> It depends on the situation.



You sound like a true conservative...only caring about yourself.


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> You sound like a true conservative...only caring about yourself.


Awww, look at you being all cute and stuff, trying to make it about me.


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

hadit said:


> Awww, look at you being all cute and stuff, trying to make it about me.


Hey you addressed me.  I'm sorry you don't like how the conversation is going.  

But here are the facts.  I'd report a marauder to the police. You said that you may not.


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Hey you addressed me.  I'm sorry you don't like how the conversation is going.
> 
> But here are the facts.  I'd report a marauder to the police. You said that you may not.


You decided to go juvenile, not me. And good for you to report it. Of course, in your case you would not be armed so it might be a little difficult to make that call, but hey.


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## Hugo Furst (May 13, 2022)

Looks like Corny Candy is trying to derail yet another thread on the 2nd.


LIke them better when they're in Badlands, Corny?


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## 2aguy (May 13, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Suicide =guns. Once the trigger is pulled, there no going back.




Again...you try this every time...but you can't explain to us how it is that Japan, China, and South Korea, with extreme gun control...kill themselves at higher rates than we do..in fact, at times, Canada beats us too...


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## 2aguy (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> false
> The rose bowl seats 92,000 and change.  He expects you to believe that everyone you see below has defended themselves with a gun in the last year….



Not me.....these guys, actual researchers, professional researchers for both the government and the private sector......the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice as just two of about 18 research groups.....


Here, the numbers...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..*

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey


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## 2aguy (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> false
> The rose bowl seats 92,000 and change.  He expects you to believe that everyone you see below has defended themselves with a gun in the last year….




I've never seen an actual platypus.....therefore, according to your logic, they do not exist.   There are some people who have never seen snow....does that mean that snow does not exist?


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Not me.....these guys, actual researchers, professional researchers for both the government and the private sector......the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice as just two of about 18 research groups.....
> 
> 
> Here, the numbers...
> ...


Yeah, nobody believes there are 3,000 shoot outs a day when you report one every other week.  You don't even believe it.


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

2aguy said:


> I've never seen an actual platypus.....therefore, according to your logic, they do not exist.   There are some people who have never seen snow....does that mean that snow does not exist?



1.2M defensive gun uses a year.
Multiplied by 50 years.
So that is what, 60M gun uses?  And you don't know anyone who has ever done this....or anyone who knows anyone who has ever done this?


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Yeah, nobody believes there are 3,000 shoot outs a day when you report one every other week.  You don't even believe it.


No one believes that, because, as has been pointed out to you repeatedly, these are NOT shootouts, they are incidents where a potential victim demonstrated that they were armed, and the potential assailant ran away. To continue talking about shootouts after you've been so thoroughly educated on the subject is either insanity, stupidity, blind stubbornness or some combination of those.


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## 2aguy (May 13, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Suicide =guns. Once the trigger is pulled, there no going back.




Penelope.....sad, sad penelope....

Canada........and suicide...how is it with your gun control laws, that your young people kill themselves at higher rates than American young people do?

Please explain...


 

STATCanadaUnited StatesAges 15-24*15 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 4th. *9% more* than United States*13.7 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 7th.Ages 25-34*18 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 8th. *18% more* than United States*15.3 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 10th.Ages 35-44*19.2 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 8th. *25% more* than United States*15.3 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 12th.Ages 45-54*18.5 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 10th. *29% more* than United States*14.3 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 13th.Ages 55-64*15.1 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 11th. *14% more* than United States*13.3 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 13th.Ages 65-74*12.1 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 14th.*15.3 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 11th. *26% more* than CanadaAges above 75*12.2 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 15th.*22 per 100,000 people* 
Ranked 10th. *80% more* than Canada
SOURCES: GECD Society at a Glance 2001, Statistical Annex Table D3









						Canada vs United States: Crime > Suicide rates Facts and Stats
					

Ages 45-54, Ages 25-34, Ages 15-24, Ages 35-44, Ages above 75 and 2 More Interesting Facts and Stats



					www.nationmaster.com


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

hadit said:


> No one believes that, because, as has been pointed out to you repeatedly, these are NOT shootouts, they are incidents where a potential victim demonstrated that they were armed, and the potential assailant ran away. To continue talking about shootouts after you've been so thoroughly educated on the subject is either insanity, stupidity, blind stubbornness or some combination of those.



Yes, the fence outside of my condo stopped 3 billion incidents last year...or was it 4 billion?  They saw the fence and decided they weren't going to risk it.  LOL

PS: How come nobody ever reports these supposed incidents?  Oh yeah...they don't want to--according to you.  All 3200 a day decide _Well...there is this rapist running around my neighborhood but I won't say anything_.


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> 1.2M defensive gun uses a year.
> Multiplied by 50 years.
> So that is what, 60M gun uses?  And you don't know anyone who has ever done this....or anyone who knows anyone who has ever done this?


There are literally millions of people in the city of New York itself who don't know more than a dozen or so other people. There have been hundreds of thousands of gang shootings in my lifetime. I have never seen one, nor do I know anyone who has been in one, but I don't doubt that they happen.


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## 2aguy (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Yeah, nobody believes there are 3,000 shoot outs a day when you report one every other week.  You don't even believe it.




Shoot outs.....?  Who said shoot outs you dumb fuck.....

Most of the time criminals are smart enough to run away from their victim when the victim points a gun or even shows they have a gun.....

This very post shows how that happens...you idiot...


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

hadit said:


> There are literally millions of people in the city of New York itself who don't know more than a dozen or so other people. There have been hundreds of thousands of gang shootings in my lifetime. I have never seen one, nor do I know anyone who has been in one, but I don't doubt that they happen.


Gee, such anecdotal "evidence" that you pull out of thin air.  The difference between your fantasy about 3,000 shootouts a day going un-reported and gang shootings is that gang shootings are reported.


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## candycorn (May 13, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Shoot outs.....?  Who said shoot outs you dumb fuck.....
> 
> Most of the time criminals are smart enough to run away from their victim when the victim points a gun or even shows they have a gun.....
> 
> This very post shows how that happens...you idiot...


And do you know anyone who has pointed a gun to stop a supposed assailant?  
And do you know anyone who knows anyone who has pointed a gun to stop a supposed assailant?


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## 2aguy (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Gee, such anecdotal "evidence" that you pull out of thin air.  The difference between your fantasy about 3,000 shootouts a day going un-reported and gang shootings is that gang shootings are reported.




Anecdotal?   18 studies, one from the Centers for Disease Control, and one from the Department of Justice, all done by professional researchers.....using proven research techniques.


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Yes, the fence outside of my condo stopped 3 billion incidents last year...or was it 4 billion?  They saw the fence and decided they weren't going to risk it.  LOL
> 
> PS: How come nobody ever reports these supposed incidents?  Oh yeah...they don't want to--according to you.  All 3200 a day decide _Well...there is this rapist running around my neighborhood but I won't say anything_.


The fence is doing its job, just like the weapons do their job. A potential assailant sees the fence and decides what he might want on the other side of it is not worth the effort to get over it. A potential assailant sees a gun and decides what he might want is not worth being perforated.

Tell us this this, how often are openly armed police officers (people who demonstrate they are carrying a deadly weapon) assaulted, robbed or raped compared to the rest of the populace? Why are police stations rarely chosen as targets by mass murderers?

And yes, there are an awful lot of people who have little trust in the police and who would rather not be involved with them in any way or don't want to take the chance that they will end up in jail for their DGU.


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## hadit (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Gee, such anecdotal "evidence" that you pull out of thin air.  The difference between your fantasy about 3,000 shootouts a day going un-reported and gang shootings is that gang shootings are reported.


Which of the options that I gave you are you going with, insanity, stupidity, blind stubbornness or some combination of those?


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (May 13, 2022)

hadit said:


> No one believes that, because, as has been pointed out to you repeatedly, these are NOT shootouts, they are incidents where a potential victim demonstrated that they were armed, and the potential assailant ran away. To continue talking about shootouts after you've been so thoroughly educated on the subject is either insanity, stupidity, blind stubbornness or some combination of those.


They have a need to justify their unreasonable fear of a lawfully armed populace by making up wild west stories about outlaws gunning one another down in the streets at high noon.  This is what happens when they make TV their religion.


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## AZrailwhale (May 13, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Suicide =guns. Once the trigger is pulled, there no going back.


Same thing after slitting your wrists, kicking the chair out from under your feet, or jumping off the building.  There is always a point in a suicide attempt where there is no going back.


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## AZrailwhale (May 13, 2022)

candycorn said:


> 1.2M defensive gun uses a year.
> Multiplied by 50 years.
> So that is what, 60M gun uses?  And you don't know anyone who has ever done this....or anyone who knows anyone who has ever done this?


I’ve used a weapon to deter a criminal, but it wasn’t a gun.  I always carry a knife, when I was in the reserves I carried a Buck folding knife on my belt.  One time a gang member/thug/robber pulled a switchblade on me and demanded my money.  I pulled my knife, flipped it open and moved into an attack position.  He immediately backed off and asked me to put away my knife.  He left the area immediately at high speed.  I never reported it to the police, there was no need.  Other than a threatened attack which would have been a “ he said,he said” situation, there was no harm done and no evidence of any crime.  Most people who display a gun to intimidate an attacker are in the same position.  There is no evidence of a crime and investigation of a non-crime wastes police resources.


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## Blues Man (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> So now it's half.  How hilarious.  How come we don't hear about these 1,500+ defensive gun uses a day?  There may be one instance a week that makes the news.  Seems like these shoot-outs would be front page news.
> 
> I'm sure you'll make up some excuse.  Hop to it.


 how fucking thick are you.

 I never said how many DGUs per year there are.

We have a range of estimates and I always use the low end of that range.

And even at the low end of the range there are far more DGUs than there are murders.

And how would you hear about them?  Do you think the corporate news outlets are going to scour every police report in every town in the US to report that a person pulled his gun and the piece of shit criminal ran away?


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## Blues Man (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> And do you know anyone who has pointed a gun to stop a supposed assailant?
> And do you know anyone who knows anyone who has pointed a gun to stop a supposed assailant?


I know 2 people that pulled a gun to stop robberies


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## candycorn (May 14, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> I know 2 people that pulled a gun to stop robberies


Thats great.  Except by noon today, there were supposed to be 1,500 such instances.  That is all day--every day.  According to the OP, there are 1.1 million (this time--the stat has fluctuated) defensive gun uses a year.  That is 3,000+ a day...every day.  Including Christmas and Easter.    You know 2 from your what--40+ years on the planet?


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## Blues Man (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Thats great.  Except by noon today, there were supposed to be 1,500 such instances.  That is all day--every day.  According to the OP, there are 1.1 million (this time--the stat has fluctuated) defensive gun uses a year.  That is 3,000+ a day...every day.  Including Christmas and Easter.    You know 2 from your what--40+ years on the planet?


Why is that so unbelievable?

According to the FBI in 2015





There are 86400 seconds in a day

So that works out to

3323 violent crimes per day
and
22153 property crimes per day

and this doesn't even take into account all the attempted crimes that occur every day and all of those crimes that may be stopped by a person fall into the attempted category.

And as I have said all we have is a range of estimates for DGUs and I use the low end.

That you are trying to call these hard stats is beyond disingenuous


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## candycorn (May 14, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Why is that so unbelievable?
> 
> According to the FBI in 2015
> 
> ...


Thanks for the stat....

And supposedly 3,200+ are prevented by a gun every day.

So you think the actual rate of crime is double and 1/2 are prevented?

Really?


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## Hugo Furst (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Thanks for the stat....
> 
> And supposedly 3,200+ are prevented by a gun every day.
> 
> ...



It's amazing.

Studies from the CDC, FBI, and CIA, among others, have been posted proving you wrong, but you  all of them, because YOU think different.


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## candycorn (May 14, 2022)

Hugo Furst said:


> It's amazing.
> 
> Studies from the CDC, FBI, and CIA, among others, have been posted proving you wrong, but you  all of them, because YOU think different.


You have to be a special type of stupid to believe that there are 3,000+ shoot outs a day that go unreported.


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## Blues Man (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Thanks for the stat....
> 
> And supposedly 3,200+ are prevented by a gun every day.
> 
> ...



Where did I say any of that?  Tell you what if you want to address what I actually write then use the fucking quote function and stop making shit up.

The fact that you insist on using the highest end what is nothing but a range of estimates as a hard stat is utterly disingenuous.


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## miketx (May 14, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We are told people never use their legal guns for self defense.....that this is just a myth....and yet...actual research shows that it happens a lot....and by a lot the research by the CDC shows about 1.1 million times a year....
> 
> As in most cases...the criminal runs away, since they aren't robbing people to get shot........here we have a woman, likely smaller than her attacker, who simply draws her gun and points it at the armed robber, and he runs away....
> 
> ...


And still, vile leftist garbage will deny it over and over, and even go as far a trying to prevent others from having the same ability to defend, while these same leftist monsters release more violent scum from prisons.


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## candycorn (May 14, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Where did I say any of that?


Oh..


Well, if you're trumpeting 3,323 violent crimes a day...and the OP is saying 3,200+ violent crimes are prevented every day....

That would mean the there would be twice as many violent crimes a day than there is now.

Do the math.


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## Blues Man (May 14, 2022)

OK I'm going to preface this by stating that it doesn't matter how many DGUs occur in a day a month a year or a decade.  If only one person a year uses a gun for defense that's more than enough for me.

So now here is some information on DGUs and a summary of the difficulties in getting hard numbers









						The Challenges of Defining and Measuring Defensive Gun Use
					

Self-protection is one of the primary reasons many people give for buying or carrying a gun. Estimates of the frequency of defensive gun use vary widely, in part reflecting difficulties in defining and measuring defensive gun use. The personal and social benefits associated with defensive gun...




					www.rand.org
				




And the conclusion

_Estimates for the prevalence of DGU span wide ranges and include high-end estimates—for instance, 2.5 million DGUs per year—that are not plausible given other information that is more trustworthy, such as the total number of U.S. residents who are injured or killed by guns each year. At the other extreme, the NCVS estimate of 116,000 DGU incidents per year almost certainly underestimates the true number. There have been few substantive advances in measuring prevalence counts or rates since the NRC (2004) report. The fundamental issues of how to define DGU and what method for obtaining and assessing those measurements is the most unbiased have not been resolved. As a result, there is still considerable uncertainty about the prevalence of DGU. Efforts to resolve the uncertainty provide insight into some, but not all, aspects of DGU measurement, which may drive the large differences in prevalence estimates. The difficulties of defining and measuring DGU have implications for understanding not only the prevalence of DGU but also the relationship between DGU and outcomes of interest, such as the probability of victimization and injury. _


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## Blues Man (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Oh..
> 
> 
> Well, if you're trumpeting 3,323 violent crimes a day...and the OP is saying 3,200+ violent crimes are prevented every day....
> ...



See there you're not a total dolt.

At least you can see that I am not the OP. 

So why do you insist replying to me with your comments about what the OP wrote and not what I wrote?


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## Polishprince (May 14, 2022)

Penelope said:


> Suicide =guns. Once the trigger is pulled, there no going back.




That's a load of shit of course.

A lot of people killed themselves long before firearms were even invented.


Someone is just as dead if they drink hemlock, commit hari-kiri ,   jump from a high building or immolate themselves.


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## Blues Man (May 14, 2022)

Polishprince said:


> That's a load of shit of course.
> 
> A lot of people killed themselves long before firearms were even invented.
> 
> ...


Suicide is a choice that every person has the absolute right to make.

So IMO any talk of suicide is a gun discussion is completely irrelevant.


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## Hugo Furst (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> You have to be a special type of stupid to believe that there are 3,000+ shoot outs a day that go unreported.


as stupid as you, claiming the CDC, FBI. and CIA are putting out false information?

Not hardly.

feelz don't beat facts.


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## Blues Man (May 14, 2022)

Hugo Furst said:


> as stupid as you, claiming the CDC, FBI. and CIA are putting out false information?
> 
> Not hardly.
> 
> feelz don't beat facts.





candycorn said:


> You have to be a special type of stupid to believe that there are 3,000+ shoot outs a day that go unreported.


Not acknowledging the fact that one can use a gun in self defense and not fire a shot is what's stupid.


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## candycorn (May 14, 2022)

Blues Man said:


> Not acknowledging the fact that one can use a gun in self defense and not fire a shot is what's stupid.


Usually "use" means using it...

As stated, the wall around my condo complex stopped 3B crimes last year.


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## Blues Man (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Usually "use" means using it...
> 
> As stated, the wall around my condo complex stopped 3B crimes last year.


Wrong.

Brandishing a gun to stop a crime is using that gun to stop a crime.  Try stopping that same crime by brandishing anything else and see what happens.

The fact that there are relatively few deaths that result in a DGU is proof of the incredible restraint gun owners possess.


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## candycorn (May 14, 2022)

Hugo Furst said:


> as stupid as you, claiming the CDC, FBI. and CIA are putting out false information?
> 
> Not hardly.
> 
> feelz don't beat facts.


No.  I think the CDC was overly generous in determining a "defensive gun use". 

Forbes did an article on the study that is in the OP: 









						That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses
					

Why did the CDC fail to publish 1990s research on numbers of defensive gun uses?




					www.forbes.com
				




The criminologist who did the study revised his paper:









						A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use
					

Criminologist Gary Kleck revises his paper on the incidence of the use of firearms for self-protection.




					reason.com
				




And couple with that the fact (not feelz) that as of this writing there should have been about 1,000 defensive gun uses so far today yet the radio isn't reporting any recent shootouts....


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## Blues Man (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> No.  I think the CDC was overly generous in determining a "defensive gun use".
> 
> Forbes did an article on the study that is in the OP:
> 
> ...


Once again we see you using what is only an estimate as a hard truth.

You're just another dishonest asshole with absolutely no intellectual integrity.


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## 2aguy (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Thats great.  Except by noon today, there were supposed to be 1,500 such instances.  That is all day--every day.  According to the OP, there are 1.1 million (this time--the stat has fluctuated) defensive gun uses a year.  That is 3,000+ a day...every day.  Including Christmas and Easter.    You know 2 from your what--40+ years on the planet?




No...not according to me, according to the Centers for Disease Control....that is where that number comes from....the bill clinton Department of Justice also did independent research into this and found 1.5 million defensive gun uses a year...and those researchers were anti-gun fanatics like you...as were the CDC researchers...

Here...look at the research again...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..*

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey


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## 2aguy (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> No.  I think the CDC was overly generous in determining a "defensive gun use".
> 
> Forbes did an article on the study that is in the OP:
> 
> ...




Kleck stated that the CDC didn't continue the research.....because government agencies always stop research when they don't like what they are finding......and with the data set they had, the number was 1.1 million times a year...imagine if they had completed the research....


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## 2aguy (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> No.  I think the CDC was overly generous in determining a "defensive gun use".
> 
> Forbes did an article on the study that is in the OP:
> 
> ...




From your very own link....obama and his 2013 order to the CDC to look at all available gun research and what they found...

In particular, a 2013 study ordered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and conducted by The National Academies’ Institute of Medicine and National Research Council reported that, “Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence”:




> *Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.*


Subsequently, I learned of a recent paper by Florida State University professor Gary Kleck, “What Do CDC’s Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?“


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## 2aguy (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> No.  I think the CDC was overly generous in determining a "defensive gun use".
> 
> Forbes did an article on the study that is in the OP:
> 
> ...




See...the CDC began to do the research......and looked at just 15 states.....and found 1.1 million defensive gun uses...when the numbers started coming back.....which backed up Kleck's work....the CDC stopped the research...

When has the CDC ever stopped doing research?   Especially on an issue where they want to attack the issue?

Kleck looked at some previously unpublished results from the CDC surveys conducted in the 1990s and concluded:



> In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to six states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Estimates based on CDC’s surveys confirm estimates for the same sets of states based on data from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995). Extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole CDC’s survey data imply that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.


Subsequently, Kleck removed this version of the paper, although a copy of the original can be found here. As reported by Reason editor Brian Doherty:



> You will note the original link doesn’t work right now. It was pointed out to me by Robert VerBruggen of National Review that Kleck treats the CDC’s surveys discussed in this paper as if they were national in scope, as Kleck’s original survey was, but they apparently were not. From VerBruggen’s own looks at CDC’s raw data, it seems that over the course of the three years, the following 15 states were surveyed: Alaska, Colorado, Hawaii, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Montana, Ohio, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. (Those states, from 2000 census data, contained around 27 percent of the U.S. population.) Informed of this, Kleck says he will recalculate the degree to which CDC’s survey work indeed matches or corroborates his, and we will publish a discussion of those fresh results when they come in. But for now Kleck has pulled the original paper from the web pending his rethinking the data and his conclusions.


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## Hugo Furst (May 14, 2022)

Corny was on a gameshow one...

$10,000 Pyramid.


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## candycorn (May 14, 2022)

This is approximately 1.2M people





If you want to believe that everyone in the picture above had a shootout last year and nobody reported it...you're really dumb beyond belief.


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## Hugo Furst (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> This is approximately 1.2M people
> View attachment 644399
> 
> If you want to believe that everyone in the picture above had a shootout last year and nobody reported it...you're really dumb beyond belief.



as dumb as you believing the CDC, CIA, and FBI are wrong?

again, not hardly.


----------



## 2aguy (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> This is approximately 1.2M people
> View attachment 644399
> 
> If you want to believe that everyone in the picture above had a shootout last year and nobody reported it...you're really dumb beyond belief.




I know you need to lie......when you use "shootout," in your dumb posts....

Self defense, as shown in this very thread, doesn't mean even shots are fired....in the vast majority, the moron criminal sees the victim has a gun and runs away...just like in this thread....since no one was harmed, the law abiding gun owner then goes on their way........

There are about 235 really stupid criminals each year, the number of criminals actually killed in gun self defense.....where the idiot criminal, who sees the victim has a gun, and decides to continue the criminal assault.....and gets killed.


Again, the actual research, done by actual research professionals, using actual research methods.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..*

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey


----------



## hadit (May 14, 2022)

candycorn said:


> This is approximately 1.2M people
> View attachment 644399
> 
> If you want to believe that everyone in the picture above had a shootout last year and nobody reported it...you're really dumb beyond belief.


And you are dumb beyond belief to keep repeating "shootout" when no one else is saying it.


----------



## hadit (May 14, 2022)

Hugo Furst said:


> as dumb as you believing the CDC, CIA, and FBI are wrong?
> 
> again, not hardly.


But he has feelz, and to the liberal, feelz top everything else.


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (May 17, 2022)

candycorn said:


> The fence outside of my condo stopped 3 billion robberies last year.  It never fired a shot either.


so, walls work?


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## AZrailwhale (May 22, 2022)

hadit said:


> And you are dumb beyond belief to keep repeating "shootout" when no one else is saying it.


She’s not dumb.  She’s building a straw man to counter a statement that no one is making.  She’s simply dishonest.


----------

