# The Impeachment Trial of Donald Trump: Can He be Convicted?



## Tom Paine 1949 (Jan 18, 2021)

BY RALPH NADER

Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro ... asked his colleagues: “If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what is?” Ten Republicans voted for Impeachment, but 197 House Republicans disagreed....

Congressional Republicans have aided and abetted, for four years, Trump’s assertion that ...  “I can do whatever I want as president.” Dangerous Donald did just that. He finally incited a massive, homicidal street crime against the very Congress that let him get away with everything, day after day ...

The GOP speakers who defended Trump in the House Impeachment debate will go down in history as unsurpassed political cowards ... Trump’s Congressional protectors, however, failed. The House of Representatives voted for Articles of Impeachment that are on their way to the Senate for a certain trial. The Senate should convict treacherous unrepentant Trump and ban him from ever seeking federal office again....

Trump’s business allies and supporters are not waiting for any verdicts. Major corporations such as Disney, Coca-Cola, and J.P. Morgan Chase have suspended campaign contributions to the GOP. Last week, the powerful National Association of Manufacturers demanded that Trump be removed from office under the 25th Amendment. Trump’s banks, to whom he owes hundreds of millions of dollars, are distancing themselves from their insatiable borrower....

McConnell ... is turning against Trump by declining to oppose Impeachment and signaling that he may unleash his Republican Senators to convict Trump, if only for their own political survival. The GOP polls are slipping and will slip more as the toxic stench of what occurred before and during the January 6th attack increases....

McConnell does not want Trump either to run or threaten to run again in 2024. The only way that yoke can be lifted is to free 17 or more Republican Senators to vote for conviction followed by a simple majority vote banning Trump from future federal office...

What are the probabilities that a conviction in the Senate will be achieved? Better than 50/50, given the survival instincts of the politicians wanting ... Trump off their backs.

The Impeachment Trial of Donald Trump: Can He be Convicted? - CounterPunch.org


----------



## Meister (Jan 18, 2021)

Slim to none, and slim just left the building.


----------



## Hugo Furst (Jan 18, 2021)

The Impeachment Process in the Senate (congress.gov)

" When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be* convicted* without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present. The Senate enjoys broad discretion in establishing procedures to be undertaken in an* impeachment* trial. "

Lots of luck finding 17 votes.


----------



## Erinwltr (Jan 18, 2021)

All the Senate needs to do is vote to remove DJTs United States Secret Service detail.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 18, 2021)

There will be no trial.

Can the object of the hatred of the Reich be convicted without a trial?

Of course. It's not like we have a functional system of government.

I love how the Reich quotes Nazi fuck Joaquin Castro who openly incited riots and violence all summer.

------------------------------

Then in 2019, Texas Rep. Joaquin Castro said Democrats would “fight [Trump] and challenge him in every way that we can in the Congress, in the courts, and in the streets and protests,” regarding if Trump declared a national emergency.




> In 2019, when Trump was considering declaring a “national emergency” over the then-gov’t shutdown, Rep. @JoaquinCastrotx said if he did, Democrats would “fight him … in the streets” pic.twitter.com/rxSnSKhhLn


----------



## White 6 (Jan 18, 2021)

Meister said:


> Slim to none, and slim just left the building.


I would not go quite that far, but the further from his insurrection and attempted coup over free elections, the lower the chances.  American politicians are notoriously short on memory.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

If 2/3's of Senate votes to "remove The Donald from office", all that would mean is he couldn't run for elective office again ... 

The DoJ can file charges against him anytime after Jan 20th in District Court ... former Presidents have no protect from prosecution ... and DoJ won't need the Senate's approval ...


----------



## Tom Paine 1949 (Jan 18, 2021)

Ralph Nader probably has a better idea than I do of what the likelihood for Trump’s *conviction* in the Senate really is. Of course he despises McConnell as much as I or anyone. I have already indicated that I favor conviction and believe it would help protect the integrity of our Republic — the one Benjamin Franklin supposedly said was ours “if you can keep it.”

Of course the Republic today is dominated by corporate money and the MIlitary Industrial Complex and all sorts of special interests (dominating *both* parties). But in Franklin’s day Congress was also dominated by special interests. Ours was then a “slave” Republic, in which Northern merchants, small manufacturers and shipping interests were also deeply involved in slavery. We were also then just beginning to build a (Continental) empire. We cannot logically believe our Congress and Republic was worth defending then, but is no longer worth defending.

Nobody should imagine that the road to save our Republic and make it really serve our people’s interests will be easy. No one party and no one man and certainly no narcissistic demagogue can do it for us. But so long as we still have a democratic Republic and “we the people” can vote, we have the opportunity to fight back legally against the oligarchy of wealth, corporate and monopoly powers. Ralph Nader has been trying to show us ways to do that for decades, preaching an alliance of right and left where possible, ending Citizen’s United dark money control of politics, and pushing “good government” and socially conscious democratic reforms of the economy.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 18, 2021)

White 6 said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Slim to none, and slim just left the building.
> ...


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> If 2/3's of Senate votes to "remove The Donald from office", all that would mean is he couldn't run for elective office again ...
> 
> The DoJ can file charges against him anytime after Jan 20th in District Court ... former Presidents have no protect from prosecution ... and DoJ won't need the Senate's approval ...



I'd love to see a constitutional basis for his not running again?

And what would the DOJ charge him with? Orange Man Bad?


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Jan 18, 2021)

"incite" When and where did he tell people to go storm the White house, anyway?


----------



## TNHarley (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> If 2/3's of Senate votes to "remove The Donald from office", all that would mean is he couldn't run for elective office again ...


If the senate passes it, they can also vote to remove his pension, secret service, a library etc.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 18, 2021)

TNHarley said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > If 2/3's of Senate votes to "remove The Donald from office", all that would mean is he couldn't run for elective office again ...
> ...



How could they "remove" a privately funded library?


----------



## Tom Paine 1949 (Jan 18, 2021)

The *conviction* of Trump on the impeachment charge of course requires significant Republican support. In my humble opinion Republican Senators have a wonderful chance to help our nation and renew the GOP by voting to convict this braggart, conman and demagogue. They need not reject a single political position they may have by rejecting this man and his unprecedented conduct. Some may argue this will hurt the party or their own careers in the short run, but I believe it will ultimately be seen — at least in many cases — as a true Republican “profile in courage.”


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Jan 18, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> The *conviction* of Trump on the impeachment charge of course requires significant Republican support. In my humble opinion Republican Senators have a wonderful chance to help our nation and renew the GOP by voting to convict this braggart, conman and demagogue. They need not reject a single political position they may have by rejecting this man and his unprecedented conduct. Some may argue this will hurt the party or their own careers in the short run, but I believe it will ultimately be seen — at least in many cases — as a true Republican “profile in courage.”




Sure thing.

All you gotta do is show where he actually incited anybody.

Just parroting what others are claiming is not proof.  Show the actual words that would hold up to scrutiny were it one of your fellow extreme leftists saying it, instead.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> I'd love to see a constitutional basis for his not running again?



Bubba never finish Middle School ... "Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, *and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States:* but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law." - Article 1, Section 3 [emphasis mine] ...

You must really hate the United States to have never read her Constitution ...



Uncensored2008 said:


> And what would the DOJ charge him with? Orange Man Bad?



If he's broken the law ... and DoJ thinks they can prove this beyond a reasonable doubt ... you must hate the United States if you think anyone is above the law ...

His speech from The Oval on Jan 6th is border line ... I think there's some doubt there that he incited the riot at the Capitol ... I've listened to his speech and though I think it was in bad taste, that's not inciting a riot ... however, the Senate can "remove him from office" willy-nilly ... and the longer the Senate debates the matter, the less damage they'll do to our freedoms and liberties ...


----------



## White 6 (Jan 18, 2021)

TNHarley said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > If 2/3's of Senate votes to "remove The Donald from office", all that would mean is he couldn't run for elective office again ...
> ...


Not secret service.  That is for our protection as well as his.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 18, 2021)

Meister said:


> Slim to none, and slim just left the building.


I would not be too sure of that. Republicans are abandoning him like rats from a sinking ship. They know the damage that he has done to the Reoublican brand and they know that the country can't go through another 4 years of him. Hell the world cant either. I am willing to bet that there are enough Republicans who are willing to risk the rath of his base for the good of the country. And there are senators with presidential ambitions who do not want him gunking up their primary field


----------



## Hugo Furst (Jan 18, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Slim to none, and slim just left the building.
> ...





TheProgressivePatriot said:


> They know the damage that he has done to the Reoublican brand



They also know the damage the Party would take were he to be convicted. 

At best, they will get 57 votes, (a guess), of the 67 needed to convict


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd love to see a constitutional basis for his not running again?
> ...




What law do you of the Reich claim he has broken?


TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Meister said:
> 
> 
> > Slim to none, and slim just left the building.
> ...



Yeah, I mean a whole 10 from the house sides with the Nazis...


----------



## TNHarley (Jan 18, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > ReinyDays said:
> ...


They cant stop a privately funded library. However, a "presidential library" is ran by the office of presidential libraries and maintained by federal $


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 18, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Meister said:
> ...


Actually the party may well be damaged beyond repair already given the deep division that he has created. I predict that the party will split into two, possibly s soon as the midterms. You will have the "Regular Repulicans " Mwho still have some semblance of sanity, and the Trump-publicans, or the QAnon Shamin Republicans or maybe the Patriot Party which would be a real joke


----------



## TNHarley (Jan 18, 2021)

White 6 said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > ReinyDays said:
> ...


The former presidents act specifies that if a president is removed via impeachment, they could lose all their benefits. Meaning, they lose the "former president" title.
I know obama signed something that gave former presidents SS detail for life. IDK if that definition was passed on to this or what.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 18, 2021)

TNHarley said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > TNHarley said:
> ...


His library is going to be a book cart that he will be pushing between cells at Attica


----------



## TNHarley (Jan 18, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


I dont figure he will get much funding for it


----------



## White 6 (Jan 18, 2021)

TNHarley said:


> White 6 said:
> 
> 
> > TNHarley said:
> ...


He has had access.  He has knowledge that could be of benefit to enemies of the United States.  He ought to keep it for at least 6 years.  After that time it would mostly be useless, except as an imbarrassment, but of course, he himself is already and embarrassment.


----------



## TNHarley (Jan 18, 2021)

White 6 said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > White 6 said:
> ...


Well yeah, i get your point. Im just saying i believe they have the power to take it away.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Jan 18, 2021)

Erinwltr said:


> All the Senate needs to do is vote to remove DJTs United States Secret Service detail.



Who said the Left was Fascist?


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 18, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> There will be no trial.
> 
> Can the object of the hatred of the Reich be convicted without a trial?
> 
> ...


There will be no trial.?  How will there be no trial. THe Democrats has the Senate . You must have a tnuous grip on reality just like your saviour T-Rump


----------



## TNHarley (Jan 18, 2021)

im also pretty sure that if they impeach him after wednesday, it wont matter. He wont lose his presidential status because he wasnt removed by the Senate.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 18, 2021)

Dogmaphobe said:


> All you gotta do is show where he actually incited anybody.


Capitol Insurrectionists Said They Were Following Trump’s Orders | HuffPost




> Numerous insurrectionists have stated that they came to Washington, marched on the Capitol and stormed it on Trump’s orders. These statements can be read or heard in statements of facts and affidavits from the Department of Justice, on-the-ground news reports and interviews conducted after the insurrection, and from the livestreamed footage that the rioters took themselves.
> “Our president wants us here,” a man live-streaming from inside the Capitol building said, according to a New York Times report. “We wait and take orders from our president.”





> [Y]ou’ll never take back your country with weakness,” Trump added. “You have to show strength and be strong.”



And Trump organized the rally and invited these people:




> Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s lawyer and the former mayor of New York City, called for a “trial by combat” to keep Trump in power.
> At a far-right rally the night before, Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who was pardoned by the president on Dec. 8, told rally-goers to “bleed” for freedom.


----------



## Dogmaphobe (Jan 18, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > All you gotta do is show where he actually incited anybody.
> ...


You just incited me!! Now, I'm going to go burn down a republican person's house.  Prepare for jail time accordingly.


You know it absolutely flabbergasts me how stupid people can be these days.  What matters isn't THEIR actions, but his. You have to show what TRUMP said to encourage people not the excuses people offer for their behavior.

Damn, Idiocracy sure came to America faster than I ever thought it would.


----------



## Meister (Jan 18, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


Probably the wounds will heal and the party moves forward as one.


----------



## Mac1958 (Jan 18, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> BY RALPH NADER
> 
> Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro ... asked his colleagues: “If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what is?” Ten Republicans voted for Impeachment, but 197 House Republicans disagreed....
> 
> ...


17 votes sure seems like a stretch.

I'm not even sure that McConnell is as powerful in this as I'm hearing.  These people are terrified of being primaried, murdered, or both, so no doubt many will vote against conviction while wishing they could vote for it.  I don't know that getting his blessing or partnership in voting for conviction is their top priority.

Here's hoping, but I'd definitely put the odds at less than 50/50.


----------



## surada (Jan 18, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> BY RALPH NADER
> 
> Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro ... asked his colleagues: “If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what is?” Ten Republicans voted for Impeachment, but 197 House Republicans disagreed....
> 
> ...



I think Trump will be convicted.. Not only for what he's done, but because the Republican party needs to purge the Trumps. The GOP made a mistake when they supported the dumbest and most corrupt man we have ever had in the WH.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

Erinwltr said:


> All the Senate needs to do is vote to remove DJTs United States Secret Service detail.



Like he needs one?


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 18, 2021)

Dogmaphobe said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...


 Ok he did not say "go and storm the Capital and terrorize congress people.  As stupid as he is, he is smarter than that. But, the bottom line is, that it would not have happened if he did not organize that mob and ginned them up with his claims of a stolen election and telling them to take back their country.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

surada said:


> Tom Paine 1949 said:
> 
> 
> > BY RALPH NADER
> ...



That's why you are quickly becoming known on this message board as complete and total mental case!  Keep up the good work!


----------



## surada (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > Tom Paine 1949 said:
> ...



Trump and his sons have threatened the GOP.. including and specifically the Republicans in Georgia. He's out for revenge because he lost the election. They need to get rid of him ..


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



How do you figure he will wind up there?  That is a maximum security facility.  What has Trump done that would warrant that?

Besides that, all he has to do is stay out of NY and they can't touch him.  I can see "For Sale" signs listed on on his property in NY anyway.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

surada said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...



Threatened?  This must be another one of your mental excursions where no man has gone before.  You are pathetic!


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> The Impeachment Process in the Senate (congress.gov)
> 
> " When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be* convicted* without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present. The Senate enjoys broad discretion in establishing procedures to be undertaken in an* impeachment* trial. "
> 
> Lots of luck finding 17 votes.


If one republican doesn't show up for the vote, then you only need 16.

If 10 republicans don't show up, then you only need 10.

They can subtract their way to conviction. until not a single republican needs to vote guilty.


----------



## surada (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



Yep.. Trump is recorded threatening the GA SOS and claiming he was a smuck for backing Kemp.. Its was an hour's worth of insults and intimidation. Trump's son Don junior told the Republicans in DC that if they didn't back Trump he was going to be working against them in their back yards. You must have seen him on the news or on video. Eric is mostly incoherent but he also threatened the GOP.

The GOP can do better.. They need to run someone smart and decent like Evan McMullen.. Trump was a horrible mistake.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

surada said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...



Oh, STFU!  You take a lame stream media fake new headline are write your own narrative.  A state Secretary of State is like being a school board member.  It's not exactly a power position, and the asshole admitted he fucked up!


----------



## Hugo Furst (Jan 18, 2021)

meaner gene said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> > The Impeachment Process in the Senate (congress.gov)
> ...



2/3s means 67 votes to convict.

not 66, not 57.


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

meaner gene said:


> If one republican doesn't show up for the vote, then you only need 16.
> 
> If 10 republicans don't show up, then you only need 10.
> 
> They can subtract their way to conviction. until not a single republican needs to vote guilty.





WillHaftawaite said:


> 2/3s means 67 votes to convict.
> 
> not 66, not 57.


2/3rds of the members present.  Not 2/3rds of the entire senate.
They only need 51 members to form a quorum.  So if only 25 republicans boycott the trial. Trump would be a guaranteed conviction.


----------



## Meathead (Jan 18, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> BY RALPH NADER
> 
> Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro ... asked his colleagues: “If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what is?” Ten Republicans voted for Impeachment, but 197 House Republicans disagreed....
> 
> ...


No. Impeachment cannot be triggered until he;s re-elected in 2024,


----------



## Meathead (Jan 18, 2021)

WillHaftawaite said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > WillHaftawaite said:
> ...


He's black. Don't confuse him.


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

Meathead said:


> No. Impeachment cannot be triggered until he;s re-elected in 2024,


Maybe you didn't see that president Trump was impeached.
The senate will hold a trial for the impeached citizen Trump.


----------



## Meathead (Jan 18, 2021)

meaner gene said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > No. Impeachment cannot be triggered until he;s re-elected in 2024,
> ...


How do you "impeach a citizen? I tire of idiots.


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

Meathead said:


> How do you "impeach a citizen? I tire of idiots.


Maybe I have to speak slower.
They already impeached president Trump.
As such due process requires a trial during which the impeached can prove their innocence.

They don't need to be an officer of the government to be tried by the senate.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

meaner gene said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> > How do you "impeach a citizen? I tire of idiots.
> ...



I'm afraid the Senate can do whatever they want ... there's no one to say they can't hold this trial and symbolically "remove him from office" ... and he'll be prohibited from holding elective office ever again ... the courts have been loath to interfere with the internal operations of Congress ...


----------



## Meathead (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...


If Trump was such a pariah, why would Dems worry?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...



Sorry!  This is a Constitutional issue and will require they issue a decision.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 18, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > There will be no trial.
> ...



A trial after Trump has left office?

I suspect the Nazis are that petty, but one dissenter from the Nazi party and it fails. There is ZERO chance of conviction - there will be no trial.


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> I'm afraid the Senate can do whatever they want ... there's no one to say they can't hold this trial and symbolically "remove him from office" ... and he'll be prohibited from holding elective office ever again ... the courts have been loath to interfere with the internal operations of Congress ...





			United States Senate Manual, 113th Congress-RULES OF PROCEDURE AND PRACTICE IN THE SENATE WHEN SITTING ON IMPEACHMENT TRIALS
		


The senates own rules require they hold a trial, with no mention of the persons status as an officer of the government.

VIII. _Upon the presentation of articles of impeachment 
            and the organization of the Senate as hereinbefore provided, 
            a writ of summons shall issue to the person impeached, 
            reciting said articles, and notifying him to appear before 
            the Senate upon a day and at a place to be fixed by the 
            Senate and named in such writ, and file his answer to said 
            articles of impeachment, and to stand to and abide the 
            orders and judgments of the Senate thereon;
_


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > Meathead said:
> ...



What you of the Nazi party don't grasp is that even if you did hold a show trial, you would need two-thirds to convict.

You'll get mitt the bitch, but that's about it.


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Sorry!  This is a Constitutional issue and will require they issue a decision.



And the constitution says that the senate is in charge of setting the impeachment trial rules.


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> *A trial after Trump has left office?*
> 
> I suspect the Nazis are that petty, but one dissenter from the Nazi party and it fails. There is ZERO chance of conviction - there will be no trial.


 
As long as articles of impeachment are delivered to the senate, their rules require they schedule and hold a trial.


----------



## Tom Paine 1949 (Jan 18, 2021)

Trump might conceivably want to use the Senate trial like Castro used his “History Will Absolve Me” speech after he and his men on the “Grandma” really did launch an armed attempt to take power that failed. Hitler was also imprisoned after his “Beerhall Putsch.” Not making any comparisons. Just pointing out there is a propaganda angle.

Also, the Democratic leadership was aware of these issues when they impeached, but decided it was worth continuing.

Lastly, this will of course be a “political trial” and will not require any specific violation of law on the part of Trump. That, at least, is my understanding of the matter.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> How do you figure he will wind up there?  That is a maximum security facility.  What has Trump done that would warrant that?
> Besides that, all he has to do is stay out of NY and they can't touch him.  I can see "For Sale" signs listed on on his property in NY anyway.



If New York charges him with a crime that is also a crime in Florida ... he can be extradited ... at this time New York hasn't unsealed any charges against The Donald, so we don't know what or even if there's charges forthcoming ... the speculation is these charges are going to be fraud in association with Trump University ... that's illegal in all 50 States and most nations around the world ... The Donald would have to flee to some country that doesn't have extradition treaties with the USA ... like Russia ... 

Does New York have civil asset forfeiture laws? ... most States do ... they could just take all his property in the State before he could sell it ... then sell it themselves and keep the money ...


----------



## Coyote (Jan 18, 2021)

Meister said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > WillHaftawaite said:
> ...



I wonder....maybe this is a point at which new parties can emerge?


----------



## Lastamender (Jan 18, 2021)

surada said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > surada said:
> ...


McMullen is CIA. Always will be. Bad idea. With fraud, maybe.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Sorry!  This is a Constitutional issue and will require they issue a decision.



_United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683_ ... Nixon had to turn over the tapes to Congress ...


----------



## OldLady (Jan 18, 2021)

Mac1958 said:


> 17 votes sure seems like a stretch.
> 
> I'm not even sure that McConnell is as powerful in this as I'm hearing. These people are terrified of being primaried, murdered, or both, so no doubt many will vote against conviction while wishing they could vote for it. I don't know that getting his blessing or partnership in voting for conviction is their top priority.
> 
> Here's hoping, but I'd definitely put the odds at less than 50/50.


There's a great idea floating around that would suit everyone.

The Constitution says the conviction requires 2/3 of those *present.  *

A quorum of the Senate is a simple majority of 51.

The Republicans too scared to vote can all get a headache that day and the Democrats can impeach him.

if McConnell is serious about wanting Trump convicted, he'll back this plan, since the last thing he ever wants is for his senators to make unpopular votes.


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Does New York have civil asset forfeiture laws? ... most States do ... they could just take all his property in the State before he could sell it ... then sell it themselves and keep the money ...


More likely New York would place a lien aginst all Trump properties.  This would prevent a "clear title" sale of any of the properties.  This would not stop Trump from finding somebody dumb enough to give him money for a property they could not get title to.

Kinda like selling somebody a stolen car.  You might find somebody dumb enough to give you 10 cents on a dollar.


----------



## surada (Jan 18, 2021)

Lastamender said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



He's much more than that. Look at his background..


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry!  This is a Constitutional issue and will require they issue a decision.
> ...



Go with 

*Nixon v. United States - Wikipedia*
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Nixon_v._United_States
_United States_, 506 _U.S._ 224 (1993)

USSC rules that the senate is in charge of it's rules for an impeachment trial.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > How do you figure he will wind up there?  That is a maximum security facility.  What has Trump done that would warrant that?
> ...



Did you forget who is the governor of Florida?

Trump University?  He settled that case years ago, dumbass!

You cannot seize funds without a conviction.  Have a nice day!


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You cannot seize funds without a conviction.  Have a nice day!


_ Under *federal* laws, property may also be seized in *civil* proceedings or by administrative action, without a judge's involvement. *Civil* and administrative *forfeiture* do not require a criminal *conviction*. _



*Asset Forfeiture Policy Manual (2019) - Department of Justice*
www.justice.gov › criminal-afmls › file › download

Claims and _Asset Forfeiture_ Actions. Under the Supplemental Rules, no _arrest_ warrant is needed


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Did you forget who is the governor of Florida?



Bubba didn't finish Middle School ... "A Person charged in any State with Treason, Felony, or other Crime, who shall flee from Justice, and be found in another State, shall on Demand of the executive Authority of the State from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having Jurisdiction of the Crime." -- Article IV, Section 2 ...

You must hate the United States to have never read her Constitution ...









						Civil forfeiture in the United States - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




It's a thing in many States ... only a few have dropped this ...


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry!  This is a Constitutional issue and will require they issue a decision.
> ...



WTF has that got to do with what I said?  Did you OD on your stupid pills?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Did you forget who is the governor of Florida?
> ...



I know those citations a hell of a lot more than you.  If the governor of Florida refuses to extradite, NY can go fuck themselves silly!


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> ...



He probably meant

*Nixon v. United States - Wikipedia*
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Nixon_v._United_States
_United States_, 506 _U.S._ 224 (1993)

USSC rules that the senate is in charge of it's rules for an impeachment trial.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I know those citations a hell of a lot more than you.  If the governor of Florida refuses to extradite, NY can go fuck themselves silly!



Duel sovereignty ... *STUPID* ... New York files in Federal court ... the Constitution is clear ... and the governor of Florida has no protection if they violate a Federal court order ...

Yes ... the Secret Service has to follow Federal court orders too ...


----------



## evenflow1969 (Jan 18, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> BY RALPH NADER
> 
> Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro ... asked his colleagues: “If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what is?” Ten Republicans voted for Impeachment, but 197 House Republicans disagreed....
> 
> ...


Highly unlikely.  Wish otherwise but it is what it is.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

meaner gene said:


> He probably meant
> 
> *Nixon v. United States - Wikipedia*
> en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Nixon_v._United_States
> ...



Yes, sorry about that ... thank you meaner for the correction ... (interesting: this is a different Nixon, Walter Nixon was a Federal judge who was impeached and removed from office) ...


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Yes, sorry about that ... thank you meaner for the correction ... (interesting: this is a different Nixon, Walter Nixon was a Federal judge who was impeached and removed from office) ...


There aren't many bookend supreme court cases.
US v Nixon and Nixon v US


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > I know those citations a hell of a lot more than you.  If the governor of Florida refuses to extradite, NY can go fuck themselves silly!
> ...



Duel?  The word is dual, you fucktard!  Calling me stupid after that boneheaded comment is pretty ironic.

They cannot file for violating a state crime in federal court.  Did you get your education by reading the back of cereal boxes?  I taught government for 21 years in public high schools and middle schools.  You would have failed easily!


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> They cannot file for violating a state crime in federal court.  Did you get your education by reading the back of cereal boxes?  I taught government for 21 years in public high schools and middle schools.  You would have failed easily!


Is that why every Trump lawsuit alleging voter fraud failed?


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> I taught government for 21 years in public high schools and middle schools.  You would have failed easily!



And yet you posted:   Right! I support all libtard state's right to _secede_. 

Which clearly is illegal under:   _*Texas v. White*_, 74 U.S. (7 Wall.) 700 (1869)


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 18, 2021)

Meathead said:


> Tom Paine 1949 said:
> 
> 
> > BY RALPH NADER
> ...


Appeal to ignorance Logical Fallacy " I said it is so therefore its true....no evidence needed" Where and when did you get your degree in constitutional law? It is complicated, but you are just dumbing it down to a moronic talking point.Do some fucking reading if you can:

A Senate impeachment trial after Trump leaves office? Some experts say yes (msn.com)




> According to a second group of scholars, if the House votes to impeach while the president is in office, the Senate can proceed to a trial even after the president has left office.
> 
> "Once an impeachment begins in the House, it may continue to a Senate trial. I don't see any constitutional problem with the Senate acting fast or slowly," said Michael Gerhardt, a law professor at the University North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
> 
> And a third view is that the entire process can begin even after the president is out of office.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Duel?  The word is dual, you fucktard!  Calling me stupid after that boneheaded comment is pretty ironic.



I have yet to end a sentence here with a period ... ever ... and yet you criticize my spelting ... okay Bubba ...



Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> They cannot file for violating a state crime in federal court.  Did you get your education by reading the back of cereal boxes?  I taught government for 21 years in public high schools and middle schools.  You would have failed easily!



Extradition is a Federal law ... *STUPID* ... all New York has to do is show the same law occurs in both States ... here's a hint, try reading the Constitution for once ...

I can see why high school diplomas are so worthless with folks like you teaching ... if you have to say you're a college graduate, then you're probably not a college graduate ... 

Ellipses for gender equality ... no one should be judged by their periods ...


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> > Duel?  The word is dual, you fucktard!  Calling me stupid after that boneheaded comment is pretty ironic.
> ...



Hey shit for brains, my Master's degree says you are a fucktard and could not pass the GED,

The governor of a state must authorize extradition.  Not gonna happen anyway!  Trump will tell NY to get fucked!


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Hey shit for brains, my Master's degree says you are a fucktard and could not pass the GED,
> 
> The governor of a state must authorize extradition.  Not gonna happen anyway!  Trump will tell NY to get fucked!



You got a Master Degree from Trump University? ... did you get your money back? ...

From "Can I Be Extradited on an Out-of-State Warrant?" -- FindLaw -- April 8th, 2016:

"You are wanted in one state but live in another and you're curious about whether you can be arrested on an out-of-state warrant. The answer is yes, technically, in most situations."

If you have to say you have a Master's Degree, you probably don't have one ...


----------



## meaner gene (Jan 18, 2021)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Hey shit for brains, my Master's degree says you are a fucktard and could not pass the GED,
> 
> The governor of a state must authorize extradition.  Not gonna happen anyway!  Trump will tell NY to get fucked!



Did you teach government, after 1987?  That's when the USSC overturned  _Kentucky v. Dennison_ (1861)  and unanimously ruled:

_*Puerto Rico v. Branstad*_, 483 U.S. 219 (1987), was a case decided by the Supreme Court of the United States that ruled unanimously that federal courts have the power to enforce extraditions based on the Extradition Clause of Article Four of the United States Constitution.


----------



## Tom Paine 1949 (Jan 18, 2021)

Coyote said:


> I wonder....maybe this is a point at which new parties can emerge?


The possibility of a deep split in the Republican Party certainly raises this question. If the Republican Party were to deeply split in two, and the Democrats became the main organized party for awhile, progressives in the Democratic Party might also feel more independent of the DNC and push harder for a break from corporate liberalism.

Whatever happens, the structure of our federal system, the centrality of  our various “winner-take-all” electoral processes and the lack of any proportional representation for minority parties — all these make a three-or-more party situation untenable for long. Of course reforms like Ranked Choice Voting could help correct this situation, but that is another story.

For now, in my opinion, we can only hope that a (relatively quick) Senate trial of Trump will facilitate such a break-away of the Republican lunatic wing. A lot depends on traditional Republican power brokers like Mitch McConnell. I’m not too hopeful myself.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 18, 2021)

meaner gene said:


> Did you teach government, after 1987?  That's when the USSC overturned  _Kentucky v. Dennison_ (1861)  and unanimously ruled:
> 
> _*Puerto Rico v. Branstad*_, 483 U.S. 219 (1987), was a case decided by the Supreme Court of the United States that ruled unanimously that federal courts have the power to enforce extraditions based on the Extradition Clause of Article Four of the United States Constitution.



I'm impressed ... this is the second time today you've plucked out a proper legal citation ... there's people with Master Degrees that don't even know what that is ...


----------



## Sunsettommy (Jan 18, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd love to see a constitutional basis for his not running again?
> ...



He was still speaking and most of his followers were still 1 1/2 miles away when the breaking in started.

The D.C. Police were warned over 24 hours earlier by the FBI of a planned riot at the Capital.

Then these articles came.

*Did CNN Accidentally Prove That Trump Did NOT Call for Violence at the Capitol?*

and,

*Democrats Keep Claiming GOP Helped in Capitol Assault. So Where's the Evidence?*

and,

*Left-Wing Activist Charged in Capitol Riot FINALLY Banned by Twitter*


----------



## XponentialChaos (Jan 19, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> What are the probabilities that a conviction in the Senate will be achieved? Better than 50/50, given the survival instincts of the politicians wanting ... Trump off their backs.



I'm going to go with less than 50/50 but still with a significant chance of happening.  I'll say 15/85.

The key to all of this is going to be McConnell in my opinion.  McConnell's wife, a member on Trump's cabinet, resigned due to Trump's behavior leading up to the terrorist attack on the 6th. If McConnell puts his full weight behind Trump's impeachment to get rid of the Trumpist wing of the party, then I think enough Republican Senators _might_ follow. 

But I don't think McConnell will be staunch in his decision either way.  He's between a rock and a hard place and I think he just wants this all to go away.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 19, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> What law do you of the Reich claim he has broken?


He incited a riot, But you do not have to break a law to be impeached. They only hve to show that hos actions endangered to constitution and integrety of the Reoublic


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 19, 2021)

meaner gene said:


> As long as articles of impeachment are delivered to the senate, their rules require they schedule and hold a trial.



McConnel said during the last attempted coup by the Nazis that he could reject their treason. Now Nazi scum Schumer is party to treason. But this is a Constitutional Crisis, the Nazis are abusing a process to try and savage an enemy of the party after he leaves office, the SCOTUS will step in. I expect the 4 scumbag leftists to side with the Reich, with the 5 Constitutionalists upholding the rule of law.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 19, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> Trump might conceivably want to use the Senate trial like Castro used his “History Will Absolve Me” speech after he and his men on the “Grandma” really did launch an armed attempt to take power that failed. Hitler was also imprisoned after his “Beerhall Putsch.” Not making any comparisons. Just pointing out there is a propaganda angle.
> 
> Also, the Democratic leadership was aware of these issues when they impeached, but decided it was worth continuing.
> 
> Lastly, this will of course be a “political trial” and will not require any specific violation of law on the part of Trump. That, at least, is my understanding of the matter.



There will be no trial.

There is no constitutional provision for impeachment of those who are out of office - not that you Nazis give a fuck about the Constitution, but there are 5 Constitutionists on the court.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 19, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> He incited a riot,



No, he sure didn't.



> But you do not have to break a law to be impeached. They only hve to show that hos actions endangered to constitution and integrety of the Reoublic



Your fellow Nazi claimed that the Reich DOJ would come after the last legitimate President. 

Pigshit and her vile goons don't need any sort of evidence for their demagoguery and slander, but if the Reich were to pursue actual criminal charges, the "Orange Man Bad" shit that the Nazis in Congress vomit out would be insufficient.

Look, you Nazis are doing anything and everything you can to spark a full blown shooting war. Clearly you think this is your chance to crush all civil rights and establish the brutal totalitarian dictatorship you dream of. And I will admit that your strategy on 1/6 was solid, you Nazis instigated what was little more than trespassing as your little Goebbels painted this as a full blown civil war battle. I suspect the whole thing was engineered by the CIA or NSA.  This was your Reichstag fire, and you now demonize the enemies of the party demanding anyone opposing the party be rounded up.

Those on 1/6 were fools, led by you Nazi, manipulated.  The KGB spent the last week trying to stir up more violence, but have failed. You wanted to slaughter thousands in the streets, but we didn't play along.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 19, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Tom Paine 1949 said:
> 
> 
> > Trump might conceivably want to use the Senate trial like Castro used his “History Will Absolve Me” speech after he and his men on the “Grandma” really did launch an armed attempt to take power that failed. Hitler was also imprisoned after his “Beerhall Putsch.” Not making any comparisons. Just pointing out there is a propaganda angle.
> ...


Another appeal to ignorance logical fallacy. The Constitution does not addres the issue and legal scholars are divided on it. But you low information tyyps have to dumb it down to a talking point because only those who have a functioning brain can deal with complex issues and  grey areas


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 19, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> TheProgressivePatriot said:
> 
> 
> > He incited a riot,
> ...


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 19, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> McConnel said during the last attempted coup by the Nazis that he could reject their treason. Now Nazi scum Schumer is party to treason. But this is a Constitutional Crisis, the Nazis are abusing a process to try and savage an enemy of the party after he leaves office, the SCOTUS will step in. I expect the 4 scumbag leftists to side with the Reich, with the 5 Constitutionalists upholding the rule of law.



That plan worked out wonderfully for Republicans after the election ... SCOTUS laughed it off and refused to hear Texas' case ... 

Funny you keep calling Democrats "Nazis" ... in truth, they're Communists ... in some respects polar opposites ...

Bubba didn't finish Middle School ...


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 19, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > McConnel said during the last attempted coup by the Nazis that he could reject their treason. Now Nazi scum Schumer is party to treason. But this is a Constitutional Crisis, the Nazis are abusing a process to try and savage an enemy of the party after he leaves office, the SCOTUS will step in. I expect the 4 scumbag leftists to side with the Reich, with the 5 Constitutionalists upholding the rule of law.
> ...




Oh look, the retard is reciting the big lie.

You claim a system where the means of production is controlled by the state which determines what products will be produced in what quantities and what price they will be sold for under an authoritarian system that forcibly represses opposition to the party, crushes individualism in favor of group identity, suppresses religious faith, outlaws speech contrary to party goals, makes opposition to the Reich or Collectivism in general a criminal act, scapegoats a particular group or race, Kulaks, Jews, whites - as a focal point for state sponsored hatred, is somehow different than the Stalinism you've promoted for all these years.


----------



## Eaglekeeper (Jan 19, 2021)

You are incorrect, I believe, on a few points. 

First, the purpose of impeachment is for removal from office. Nothing in Madison's notes indicates otherwise. Therefore, it serves no purpose after tomorrow.

Second, SCOTUS did not laugh off the case. The majority said they did not have standing, which the dissent rejected, since the court has original jurisdiction in state disputes, and all other states may have been harmed by other states' unlawful elections.

Lastly, Democrats are far from communist. In communism, there are no classes and all property and wealth is shared by the community. In socialism, the economic policies are guided by a central authority and this always creates a ruling or elite class and a subservient class. This is exactly what the Nazi's ended up with, regardless of their stated goals. The were, after all, called the Democratic Socialist Worker's Party. It certainly seems that many on the left right now would love to round up conservatives and put them in camps.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 19, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



The Nazi Party was pro-business, as long as it was German-owned ... it's just a dirty word you're spewing because of your hatred ... and you forgot Slavs ...


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 19, 2021)

Eaglekeeper said:


> First, the purpose of impeachment is for removal from office. Nothing in Madison's notes indicates otherwise. Therefore, it serves no purpose after tomorrow.



The aim is to prevent The Donald from holding elective office again if he's "removed from office" ...



Eaglekeeper said:


> Second, SCOTUS did not laugh off the case. The majority said they did not have standing, which the dissent rejected, since the court has original jurisdiction in state disputes, and all other states may have been harmed by other states' unlawful elections.



SCOTUS refused to hear the case based on standing ... the dissent was strictly on the refusal ... the two justices explicitly stated their dissent had nothing to do with the merits of the case ... PA followed their own laws, the legislature did indeed allow anyone to vote by mail in 2017 ... and so does Texas ... any unlawful acts by election officials in PA can be addressed in State court ... and these filings all failed ... thus TX direct filing to SCOTUS ...



Eaglekeeper said:


> Lastly, Democrats are far from communist. In communism, there are no classes and all property and wealth is shared by the community. In socialism, the economic policies are guided by a central authority and this always creates a ruling or elite class and a subservient class. This is exactly what the Nazi's ended up with, regardless of their stated goals. The were, after all, called the Democratic Socialist Worker's Party. It certainly seems that many on the left right now would love to round up conservatives and put them in camps.



I did say "in some ways" ... and I agree with you not in all ways ... Fascism is pro-business, Communism is anti-business ... that's my point ... the rest of your diatribe is less about political ideology and more about single party rule ... and all that went out the window once The War started, even here in the United States many industries were turned to war production ... even bread slicing machine manufacturers had to quit and start making military gear ...

There's many on the right who want to lock up liberals ... 

Only a few of The Donald's supporters rioted in the Capitol ... a vast majority stayed outside following the law and exercising their Free Speech rights ... by the same standard, only a few BLM supporters rioted in our cities ... a vast majority followed the law and exercise their Free Speech rights ... throw the rioters in prison, no matter which side ...


----------



## Coyote (Jan 19, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder....maybe this is a point at which new parties can emerge?
> ...



I think ranked choice is a great idea, because without it small parties really don't have a chance.  I do think the Dems have their own divisions that might become more apparent in this cycle.  The one thing that was clear in this election was that even though they won the presidency and the two Georgia seats they did not make the sweep they had hoped to.  What will happen when Trump is not on the ticket?  Will the "get out the vote" first time voters remain engaged?


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 19, 2021)

Eaglekeeper said:


> You are incorrect, I believe, on a few points.
> 
> First, the purpose of impeachment is for removal from office. Nothing in Madison's notes indicates otherwise. Therefore, it serves no purpose after tomorrow.
> 
> ...




What the Nazis do is lie.

The court denied "Injunctive Relief" to Texas. The court did not "throw the case out" as the Nazis claim. The court continues to review 18 points brought by the states against the clear fraud of this election.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 19, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Eaglekeeper said:
> 
> 
> > First, the purpose of impeachment is for removal from office. Nothing in Madison's notes indicates otherwise. Therefore, it serves no purpose after tomorrow.
> ...



The goal is to ensure no one ever challenges the Oligarchy, the ruling elite, ever again.

The idea that someone can promote the will of the people will be crushed by our rulers.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 19, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> Eaglekeeper said:
> 
> 
> > First, the purpose of impeachment is for removal from office. Nothing in Madison's notes indicates otherwise. Therefore, it serves no purpose after tomorrow.
> ...



The goal is to ensure no one ever challenges the Oligarchy, the ruling elite, ever again.

The idea that someone can promote the will of the people will be crushed by our rulers.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 19, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> What are the probabilities that a conviction in the Senate will be achieved? Better than 50/50, given the survival instincts of the politicians wanting ... Trump off their backs.




PURE RUBBISH.  Just how is Trump going to be "on their back" when he leaves office to go back to civilian life in Florida 8AM tomorrow morning?  He can't even tweet them anymore.


----------



## Polishprince (Jan 19, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> What are the probabilities that a conviction in the Senate will be achieved? Better than 50/50, given the survival instincts of the politicians wanting ... Trump off their backs.
> 
> The Impeachment Trial of Donald Trump: Can He be Convicted? - CounterPunch.org




I would estimate the chances of a conviction as being between Slim and none.

And Slim left town.

As far as a post-presidency impeachment trial- won't happen.   The punishment is being thrown out of office, and no Supreme Court chief justice is going preside over a moot case and no Senate is going to tie up business for a month to do this.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 19, 2021)

Erinwltr said:


> All the Senate needs to do is vote to remove DJTs United States Secret Service detail.




And where do you think that would leave this country if after that, Trump were murdered?  Do you think anyone might wonder if some plot were afoot?  Just how far do you intend to slap the Constitution in the face after taking away Trump's freedom to speak, freedom to assemble, freedom to vote, freedom from search and seizure, right to face his accusers, right to self-defense, freedom from defamation and libel, right to an impartial jury, freedom from cruel punishment, and now you want to strip him of every privilege every president is entitled to after leaving office at the risk of his own life?

And for what-- --  because some few people at one of his rallies got carried away protesting an election deemed unresolved and highly questionable by perhaps half the nation that the democrats shoved down our throats and refused to allow to be investigated, then seized Washington with two battalions of troops plus additional private security forces to bar America from its own capitol?

Can you be any more un-American, dangerous, inflammatory and communistic?


----------



## XponentialChaos (Jan 19, 2021)

_"The mob was fed lies.  They were provoked by the President and other powerful people."_ - Mitch McConnell

This could get interesting.


----------



## TheProgressivePatriot (Jan 19, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> meaner gene said:
> 
> 
> > As long as articles of impeachment are delivered to the senate, their rules require they schedule and hold a trial.
> ...


Breaking News:

Mitch McConnell Says Capitol Rioters Were 'Provoked' By Trump | HuffPost


Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, a figure as complicit as any in President Donald Trump’s rise and rule, sharply rebuked the president on Tuesday, saying he provoked the insurrectionist mob that attacked the U.S. Capitol.
“The mob was fed lies,” he said on the Senate floor. “They were provoked by the president and other powerful people, and they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government which they did not like.”

_This is a developing story. Please check back for updates.

Do you have information you want to share with HuffPost? Here’s how._




Lydia O’Connor
Reporter, HuffPost
Suggest a correction


----------



## San Souci (Jan 19, 2021)

Erinwltr said:


> All the Senate needs to do is vote to remove DJTs United States Secret Service detail.


Now THAT sounds like incitement.


----------



## ReinyDays (Jan 20, 2021)

Uncensored2008 said:


> The goal is to ensure no one ever challenges the Oligarchy, the ruling elite, ever again.
> The idea that someone can promote the will of the people will be crushed by our rulers.



There's more police officers out there to be murdered ... if that's what you want to do ... fire extinguisher to the head ...


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jan 20, 2021)

ReinyDays said:


> There's more police officers out there to be murdered ... if that's what you want to do ... fire extinguisher to the head ...



What makes you think I belong to BLM?

The officer who died during the Capitol Riot had a heart attack.

The 17 murdered by democrat Brown Shirts over the last year have been flat out murdered - usually with you democrat ambushing them.

Do you have your green laser to permanently blind the police? We know how you Nazis love doing that.

Federal officers in Portland suffered 113 eye injuries from lasers: DHS (nypost.com)


----------



## Staidhup (Jan 20, 2021)

Pretty hard to impeach a FORMER president, maybe a look see into the document the dimbo’s hate just as much would help. On the other hand the “rule of law”, that often quoted phrase dimbo’s site, requires a preponderance of evidence that he incited the wild act of sedition. Then of course you have the evidence of elected representatives inciting riots. Oh my it will be fun to see how this plays out. Then of course we have the issue of the Durham report based on evidence that may expose Obama‘s and yes Joe’s direct involvement in obstructing and withholding evidence from the FISA Court, and FBI’s antics. This is beginning to shape up as 4 years of impeachment hearings to entertain the masses.


----------



## themirrorthief (Jan 29, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> BY RALPH NADER
> 
> Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro ... asked his colleagues: “If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what is?” Ten Republicans voted for Impeachment, but 197 House Republicans disagreed....
> 
> ...


being a republican is enough for democrats to attack with bogus bs


----------



## themirrorthief (Jan 29, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> > TheProgressivePatriot said:
> ...


speaking of jokes, did you hear the democrats elected that poor old senile racist Joe biden as president


----------



## themirrorthief (Jan 29, 2021)

TheProgressivePatriot said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > All you gotta do is show where he actually incited anybody.
> ...


Trump rules


----------



## AFrench2 (Feb 8, 2021)

Republicans won't convict him.


----------



## Leo123 (Feb 8, 2021)

Apparently now, Democrats will try to establish a precedent for impeaching a President out of office.   If that happens, maybe we should impeach George Washington for owning slaves.  Hey!!  We should Impeach JFK for having all those affairs and having Marilyn Monroe killed!!!  According to Democrats you can accuse anybody of anything and convict them on those unproven accusations.


----------



## Leo123 (Feb 8, 2021)

AFrench2 said:


> Republicans won't convict him.


It's not a legal impeachment anyway soo......


----------



## Tom Paine 1949 (Feb 8, 2021)

_*Ralph Nader, whom I have always respected as a tireless citizen activist, a lifetime ally of the little man facing off against giant corporations and government bureaucrats, a man who never betrayed our interests and never ever was corrupted by corporate money ... was clearly too optimistic in his hopes that Republicans in the Senate would do their duty. Let’s review what Nader hoped for in the first weeks after Jan.6th and what I still believe “duty to our Republic” requires...*

Ralph Nader despises Republican Senator McConnell as much as anyone.  Still he was happy to see McConnell’s initial harsh words against Trump. I personally favor conviction and believe it would help protect the integrity of our Republic — the one Benjamin Franklin supposedly said was ours “if you can keep it.”

Of course the Republic today is dominated by corporate money and the MIlitary Industrial Complex and all sorts of special interests (dominating *both* parties). But in Franklin’s day Congress was also dominated by special interests. Ours was then a “slave” Republic, in which Northern merchants, small manufacturers and shipping interests were also deeply involved in slavery. We were also then just beginning to build a (Continental) empire. We cannot logically believe our Congress and Republic was worth defending then, but is no longer worth defending.

Nobody should imagine that the road to save our Republic and make it really serve our people’s interests will be easy. No one party and no one man and certainly no narcissistic demagogue can do it for us. But so long as we still have a democratic Republic and “we the people” can vote, we have the opportunity to fight back legally against the oligarchy of wealth, corporate and monopoly powers. Ralph Nader has been trying to show us ways to do that for decades, preaching an alliance of right and left where possible, ending Citizen’s United dark money control of politics, and pushing “good government” and socially conscious democratic reforms of the economy.

Here was Nader’s original view, apparently too optimistically presented just a week or so after Trump’s presidency truly ended in chaos, shame and violence on Jan. 6th:_

BY RALPH NADER

Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro ... asked his colleagues: “If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what is?” Ten Republicans voted for Impeachment, but 197 House Republicans disagreed....

Congressional Republicans have aided and abetted, for four years, Trump’s assertion that ... “I can do whatever I want as president.” Dangerous Donald did just that. He finally incited a massive, homicidal street crime against the very Congress that let him get away with everything, day after day ...

The GOP speakers who defended Trump in the House Impeachment debate will go down in history as unsurpassed political cowards ... Trump’s Congressional protectors, however, failed. The House of Representatives voted for Articles of Impeachment that are on their way to the Senate for a certain trial. The Senate should convict treacherous unrepentant Trump and ban him from ever seeking federal office again....

Trump’s business allies and supporters are not waiting for any verdicts. Major corporations such as Disney, Coca-Cola, and J.P. Morgan Chase have suspended campaign contributions to the GOP. Last week, the powerful National Association of Manufacturers demanded that Trump be removed from office under the 25th Amendment. Trump’s banks, to whom he owes hundreds of millions of dollars, are distancing themselves from their insatiable borrower....

McConnell ... is turning against Trump by declining to oppose Impeachment and signaling that he may unleash his Republican Senators to convict Trump, if only for their own political survival. The GOP polls are slipping and will slip more as the toxic stench of what occurred before and during the January 6th attack increases....

McConnell does not want Trump either to run or threaten to run again in 2024. The only way that yoke can be lifted is to free 17 or more Republican Senators to vote for conviction followed by a simple majority vote banning Trump from future federal office...

What are the probabilities that a conviction in the Senate will be achieved? Better than 50/50, given the survival instincts of the politicians wanting ... Trump off their backs.

The Impeachment Trial of Donald Trump: Can He be Convicted? - CounterPunch.org


----------



## WinterBorn (Feb 11, 2021)

How is it that 3 GOP leaders and members of the jury, can meet with Trump's lawyers behind closed doors?


----------



## Sunsettommy (Feb 11, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> How is it that 3 GOP leaders and members of the jury, can meet with Trump's lawyers behind closed doors?



It is completely legal, since all the Senators are JUDGES, not juries. Heck it was the Democrat who said it:

*Ted Cruz Eviscerates Legacy Media's 'Gotcha!' Attack*


=====

Article 3 section 2.

The Founding fathers themselves said they are JUDGES



> The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.



Then we have a SCOTUS ruling on this too:



> Cruz is correct. In January, former Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) took to _The Washington Post_ to explain that senators are not “jurors.” Harkin explained that he objected to House members calling him and his fellow senators “jurors” during the Senate impeachment trial of Bill Clinton in 1999. Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist upheld his objection, saying, “The Senate is not simply a jury. It is a court in this case. Therefore, counsel should refrain from referring to the senators as jurors.”


----------



## WinterBorn (Feb 11, 2021)

Sunsettommy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > How is it that 3 GOP leaders and members of the jury, can meet with Trump's lawyers behind closed doors?
> ...



Good answer.  Thanks.


----------



## HaShev (Feb 12, 2021)




----------



## Utilitarian (Feb 12, 2021)

Tom Paine 1949 said:


> BY RALPH NADER
> 
> Texas Congressman Joaquin Castro ... asked his colleagues: “If inciting a deadly insurrection is not enough to get a president impeached, then what is?” Ten Republicans voted for Impeachment, but 197 House Republicans disagreed....
> 
> ...



When multinational corporations are in favor of Trump being convicted, that should tell you the real reason for the trial.  He didn't support their globalist interests.  They're going to make an example out of him.  It also shows that they pull the strings -- not any particular party.

The parties themselves are an illusion of choice.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Feb 12, 2021)

WinterBorn said:


> Sunsettommy said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


why is that a good answer. do impartial judges plan strategy with one party?


----------

