# The Story of one "EX" Gay



## 007

Ex-Gay speaker Greg Quinlan 
Tuesday, June 06, 2006 -  



Ethics & Religion

Causes & Cures of Homosexuality

by columnist Michael J. McManus
May 24, 2006

NEWARK: What causes homosexuality? Are people born homosexual?

Last week the New Jersey Family Policy Council answered those questions by inviting Greg Quinlan, an ex-gay, to speak to clergy in six cities.

His testimony begins with his father, "who was Archie Bunker" in manner, but unlike Archie, was physically abusive, beating his son so badly he was hospitalized twice. One day at age 8, in front of his friends, Greg asked his dad, "You hate me, don't you?" His dad cursed and replied, "Yes, I hate you." Greg sighed, "I knew that."

When Greg was 9 he "professed his faith in Jesus Christ. "But as things got worse, at age 10, a boy across the street, aged 13, introduced me to sex. I knew it was wrong, but what I got was affirmation, affection, approval and someone touching me who was not beating me up.

I got involved in pornography, discos, the homosexual lifestyle. I was very, very sexually promiscuous. It is the providence of God that I, at age 47, am HIV free."

As a registered nurse he volunteered to care for 100 men who died of AIDS before he stopped counting. Quinlan went to their funerals, reading their favorite Bible verses.

He joined the Human Rights Campaign, responsible for raising tens of thousands of dollars for one of the largest and most effective lobbies in Washington, which persuaded Congress to invest in AIDS research. "They taught me how to lobby. But what the devil trained me to do, God can use for His glory," he told pastors.

Quinlan started watching the 700 Club.

At first, he wanted to "reach through the set and strangle Pat Robertson. But he saw an ex-gay on the show who shared how he left the lifestyle. "EX-GAY?" he asked himself. "How is that possible? But I hated my life. There is pleasure in sin for a season, but I wanted out."

He called a Christian friend across the country and asked him to lead him in making a re- commitment to Christ. When Quinlan prayed the sinner's prayer, "I had peace." He started going to church.

At age 35, Greg's father, who was dying due to smoking, asked his son, the RN, to care for him. One day Greg told his dad, "I can't be here tomorrow, due to work." His father who had undergone a deathbed conversion, replied, "That's OK. I love you, Greg."

He was stunned. Prompted by a nurse, he replied, "I love you too, Dad." He died the next day. When Greg started on a path of truly forgiving his father, his anger and bitterness left - along with his homosexual desires. "I had a lot of reason to be angry. Three-quarters of gays were molested at an early age, like me. Now sex education is telling kids, homosexuality is normal."

He started a ministry in Dayton, the Pro Family Network, which lobbied for passage of Ohio's one man, one woman Marriage Amendment. He's been on the 700 Club four times, with his wife. As a result, he has received death threats, which frighten her.

He answers gay critics who charge that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality: "Look at Matthew 19, in answer to the Pharisees. Jesus replies, 'Haven't you heard, at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female.' Stop there. Not Adam and Steve, or Eve and Edith, but man and woman. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one.' They had sex. That's how we all got here. Jesus is quoting Genesis, and he can because he was there," he says to applause.

"There is no biological evidence, not one repeatable study, not a single genetic test that gives any validity to homosexual behavior as a "born" trait. No one is born Gay, no one! Homosexuality is an emotional disorder, a pathology that can be and has been effectively changed when a person is highly motivated."

A woman once challenged him: "If we find a gay gene, then you will have to accept it."

"No, I won't," he countered. "Last week I heard they discovered a gene that causes hereditary breast cancer. You think that if there is a gay gene, homosexuals should embrace their homosexuality.

Then she should accept her cancer, and embrace it. NO! That's nonsense. If diabetes has a gene, we seek to cure it. If there is a gay gene, let's work to cure it."

"Remember Scripture, 'Such were some of you.' It is a changeable behavior."


http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/templates/newstemplate.asp?articleid=272&zoneid=2


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## The ClayTaurus

So they answered the question by interviewing one individual? Is that the gist of this story?


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## dmp

The ClayTaurus said:


> So they answered the question by interviewing one individual? Is that the gist of this story?



He's demonstration the bad-logic behind "Gay People are BORN that way." and "Once Gay, always Gay!" and "Homosexuality can't be CURED"

etc...


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## 007

The ClayTaurus said:


> So they answered the question by interviewing one individual? Is that the gist of this story?



His story is not unique. It's one of many.

The point is, being queer does not mean you were born that way, or that you can't be cured. There's plenty of help and support followed by success story after success story that the homo community works overtime to silence.


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## The ClayTaurus

The Article said:
			
		

> What causes homosexuality? Are people born homosexual?
> 
> Last week the New Jersey Family Policy Council answered those questions by inviting Greg Quinlan, an ex-gay, to speak to clergy in six cities.


I'd hardly say those questions were definitively answered.


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## Nienna

The ClayTaurus said:


> I'd hardly say those questions were definitively answered.



Maybe not definitively answered, but does that mean that we should discourage people from seeking help if they want it? It shows that it IS possible to leave the lifestyle; it is NOT a helpless condition.


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## The ClayTaurus

Nienna said:


> Maybe not definitively answered, but does that mean that we should discourage people from seeking help if they want it? It shows that it IS possible to leave the lifestyle; it is NOT a helpless condition.


It doesn't prove that everyone is helpable. It proves some people can be. And it certainly doesn't prove that 100% of gay people, or even a majority of gay people, can be cured of it.

This is, of course, all beyond the debate of whether or not it's necessary to cure.

I would disagree with anyone who says that homosexuality is _never _something that can be reversed, but I would equally disagree with anyone who says homosexuality is _always_ something that can be reversed.


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## dmp

The ClayTaurus said:


> I would disagree with anyone who says that homosexuality is _never _something that can be reversed, but I would equally disagree with anyone who says homosexuality is _always_ something that can be reversed.



Homosexual URGES, perhaps...but Homosexuality CAN be prevented.  Having misguided Urges is not being 'gay' - it's needing therapy


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## Nienna

The ClayTaurus said:


> It doesn't prove that everyone is helpable. It proves some people can be. And it certainly doesn't prove that 100% of gay people, or even a majority of gay people, can be cured of it.


 I agree with that to an extent, even though Pale didn't make that assertion in this thread. I don't think people are curable if they don't WANT to be cured.



> This is, of course, all beyond the debate of whether or not it's necessary to cure.
> 
> I would disagree with anyone who says that homosexuality is _never _something that can be reversed, but I would equally disagree with anyone who says homosexuality is _always_ something that can be reversed.



Homosexuality will probably never be completely eradicated, just like murder, theft, lying, overeating, lust, etc. However, I do believe that there is A LOT of resistance to even having the information out there, that it CAN be helped. People who do not want to change from homosexuality are very defensive about the fact that others HAVE changed.


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## Avatar4321

The ClayTaurus said:


> It doesn't prove that everyone is helpable. It proves some people can be. And it certainly doesn't prove that 100% of gay people, or even a majority of gay people, can be cured of it.
> 
> This is, of course, all beyond the debate of whether or not it's necessary to cure.
> 
> I would disagree with anyone who says that homosexuality is _never _something that can be reversed, but I would equally disagree with anyone who says homosexuality is _always_ something that can be reversed.




So we shouldnt help anyone because we dont know that they are helpable?

I think what makes us human is our ability to overcome anything we have to deal with. I dont think you give them enough credit.


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## mattskramer

Nienna said:


> Maybe not definitively answered, but does that mean that we should discourage people from seeking help if they want it? It shows that it IS possible to leave the lifestyle; it is NOT a helpless condition.



People should help people if those people want help. It is not our position to insist that they need help and had better get help. Unlike many people in the homosexual community I think that, through severe conditioning and intense counseling, you can turn a homosexual into a heterosexual.  You can turn a left-handed person into a right-handed person. You can turn a smoker into a non-smoker. You could probably turn a heterosexual into a homosexual.  You can turn a non-smoker into a smoker. Just as you can soften up hard clay and mold it into different things, you can change a persons psyche but why would you do it? You would do it only if the person really wants to change.


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## The ClayTaurus

Avatar4321 said:


> So we shouldnt help anyone because we dont know that they are helpable?
> 
> I think what makes us human is our ability to overcome anything we have to deal with. I dont think you give them enough credit.


And I think you vastly over-assumed my position.


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## The ClayTaurus

Nienna said:


> I agree with that to an extent, even though Pale didn't make that assertion in this thread. I don't think people are curable if they don't WANT to be cured.


It's entirely possible that some aren't curable. We'll never know because we'll never be able to rely on any "research" done on the issue for either side of the debate because it's all biased. And I never claimed Pale asserted anything in the thread; just found the title to the article over-reaching is all.





Nienna said:


> Homosexuality will probably never be completely eradicated, just like murder, theft, lying, overeating, lust, etc..


Or, depending on who you ask, just like being left handed, biting your nails, burping, etc. etc. 





Nienna said:


> However, I do believe that there is A LOT of resistance to even having the information out there, that it CAN be helped. People who do not want to change from homosexuality are very defensive about the fact that others HAVE changed.


Absolutely agree. Some I'm sure are in denial, others probably just want to be left alone, others are probably just looking to argue.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure you can't paint the whole situation with just one stroke of the brush.


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## The ClayTaurus

dmp said:


> Homosexual URGES, perhaps...but Homosexuality CAN be prevented.  Having misguided Urges is not being 'gay' - it's needing therapy


I find that to be overly simplified. But then I'm also in the camp that believes in not giving a shit about someone's urges so long as they aren't hurting anyone else.


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## dmp

The ClayTaurus said:


> I find that to be overly simplified. But then I'm also in the camp that believes in not giving a shit about someone's urges so long as they aren't hurting anyone else.



Your Naive if you believe homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone. :-/

Hurts families, Hurts participants, hurts society.


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## Nienna

mattskramer said:


> People should help people if those people want help. It is not our position to insist that they need help and had better get help. Unlike many people in the homosexual community I think that, through severe conditioning and intense counseling, you can turn a homosexual into a heterosexual.  You can turn a left-handed person into a right-handed person. You can turn a smoker into a non-smoker. You could probably turn a heterosexual into a homosexual.  You can turn a non-smoker into a smoker. Just as you can soften up hard clay and mold it into different things, you can change a persons psyche but why would you do it? You would do it only if the person really wants to change.



So what if they DO want to change? Should they not be told that change is possible? Should they not hear the benefits of changing? Should the voices of those who HAVE changed be silenced just because others do not want to change?


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## Nienna

The ClayTaurus said:


> Regardless, I'm pretty sure you can't paint the whole situation with just one stroke of the brush.



Of course not. But the picture will never GET painted unless the artist STARTS making brushstrokes. We shouldn't silence or denigrate those who have a story to tell.


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## The ClayTaurus

dmp said:


> Your Naive if you believe homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone. :-/
> 
> Hurts families, Hurts participants, hurts society.


Plenty of things hurt people in the hands of those who aren't responsible enough.

That's not a valid reason for advocating everyone be cured of it.


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## The ClayTaurus

Nienna said:


> Of course not. But the picture will never GET painted unless the artist STARTS making brushstrokes. We shouldn't silence or denigrate those who have a story to tell.


Problem is, two artists each want to paint the same picture, but only with 1 stroke! For every homosexual who wants to silence an example of a homosexual returning to heterosexual there's a heterosexual who wants to silence an example of a heterosexual going homo.


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## Nienna

The ClayTaurus said:


> Problem is, two artists each want to paint the same picture, but only with 1 stroke! For every homosexual who wants to silence an example of a homosexual returning to heterosexual there's a heterosexual who wants to silence an example of a heterosexual going homo.



So let 'em both talk.


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## cslaughlin13

How many of you people for ex-gays are actually gay?
I am gay and I believe from a first hand perspective that it cannot be changed, I don't care to censor anything, but how can you proclaim that homosexuality can be changed when you yourself are not one.
If you truly believe by one person's testimonial that one's sexuality can be changed, then logic would suggest by that if a straight person became gay under therapy, then you should be able to do the same.


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## mattskramer

Nienna said:


> So what if they DO want to change?



Please give a more specific question.



> Should they not be told that change is possible?



*No.*  They should be told that change is possible, particularly if they really want to change. 



> Should they not hear the benefits of changing?



*No.*They should hear of the costs and benefits of changing and the costs and benefits of not changing. 



> Should the voices of those who HAVE changed be silenced just because others do not want to change?



*No.*They should hear from people who have changed and from those who failed to change, from those who came to terms with their homosexuality and from those who successfully embraced heterosexuality. 

As when anyone is thinking of subjecting himself to medical or psychological activity, he should be given as much information as is practical.


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## Nienna

cslaughlin13 said:


> How many of you people for ex-gays are actually gay?
> I am gay and I believe from a first hand perspective that it cannot be changed, I don't care to censor anything, but how can you proclaim that homosexuality can be changed when you yourself are not one.
> If you truly believe by one person's testimonial that one's sexuality can be changed, then logic would suggest by that if a straight person became gay under therapy, then you should be able to do the same.



There is the suggestion, still under investigation, of course, that straight people DO become gay, many times because of abuse, neglect, or other factors.

I can claim that homosexuality can be changed because of numerous testimonies, not just one.
http://www.exodus-international.org/

http://www.drthrockmorton.com/idoexist.asp


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## Nienna

mattskramer said:


> As when anyone is thinking of subjecting himself to medical or psychological activity, he should be given as much information as is practical.



As long as the information is accurate & true, I agree.


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## The ClayTaurus

Nienna said:


> So let 'em both talk.


That's what I'm sayin'


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## Nienna

The ClayTaurus said:


> That's what I'm sayin'



I hear ya.


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## jillian

Nienna said:


> As long as the information is accurate & true, I agree.




There's the problem, though. There are certain things that just aren't true. And I'm sure there are lots of gay folk who would love to have the same lives, kids, family, the whole nine yards, as their heterosexual counterparts. But it doesn't happen. People are not made gay by associating with gays and are not "cured".


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## cslaughlin13

nienna, even though you can give me many testimonials of ex-gays, I can give you just as many, or more testimonials from gays that say that you cannot change.
I'm simply stating that if you are not gay, then how would you know.

I am also against censorship for many things, this includes ex-gay testimonials, but you also need to remember that even though some gay people may want to become straight and change, you should not necessarily be saying that it is 100% possible when there is no scientific evidence for this.  Also, there are many people, like me, that do not care to change, so i don't think that you should necessarily be going to gay people and shoving it down their throats that they must change.


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## dmp

cslaughlin13 said:


> nienna, even though you can give me many testimonials of ex-gays, I can give you just as many, or more testimonials from gays that say that you cannot change.
> I'm simply stating that if you are not gay, then how would you know.
> 
> I am also against censorship for many things, this includes ex-gay testimonials, but you also need to remember that even though some gay people may want to become straight and change, you should not necessarily be saying that it is 100% possible when there is no scientific evidence for this.  Also, there are many people, like me, that do not care to change, so i don't think that you should necessarily be going to gay people and shoving it down their throats that they must change.




Your confusing behaviour with desires.


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## cslaughlin13

would you care to explain please?


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## manu1959

anyone see the special the other night on dateline about horomon influence in the womb influencing gay behaviour.......

what i thought was interesting was the part about son's with several older brothers being far more likeley to be gay and the high levels of hormon release that has been documented in the womb for these males that became gay.....seems the mother's womb knew that it was having lots of men and did not wnat too many competitiors to the eldest.....isn't nature interesting


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## OCA

cslaughlin13 said:


> How many of you people for ex-gays are actually gay?
> I am gay and I believe from a first hand perspective that it cannot be changed, I don't care to censor anything, but how can you proclaim that homosexuality can be changed when you yourself are not one.
> If you truly believe by one person's testimonial that one's sexuality can be changed, then logic would suggest by that if a straight person became gay under therapy, then you should be able to do the same.



Out of curiosity when did you choose to turn queer and why?


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## OCA

jillian said:


> People are not made gay by associating with gays and are not "cured".



Sure they are and do.


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## jillian

manu1959 said:


> anyone see the special the other night on dateline about horomon influence in the womb influencing gay behaviour.......
> 
> what i thought was interesting was the part about son's with several older brothers being far more likeley to be gay and the high levels of hormon release that has been documented in the womb for these males that became gay.....seems the mother's womb knew that it was having lots of men and did not wnat too many competitiors to the eldest.....isn't nature interesting



Nature IS interesting. Most frogs and certain reptiles can change gender depending on the needs of the community. And, yes, I saw the special you're talking about. Good for some perspective. My closest gay friends always told me that they thought it was a combination of nature and nurture, with neither one being exclusive in terms of causation.


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## jillian

OCA said:


> Sure they are and do.



And your scientific proof of this? I personally have never known anyone who was a "convert" to homosexuality. You?


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## OCA

manu1959 said:


> anyone see the special the other night on dateline about horomon influence in the womb influencing gay behaviour.......
> 
> what i thought was interesting was the part about son's with several older brothers being far more likeley to be gay and the high levels of hormon release that has been documented in the womb for these males that became gay.....seems the mother's womb knew that it was having lots of men and did not wnat too many competitiors to the eldest.....isn't nature interesting



More scientific gobbledlygook, still waiting for that gay gene to be discovered lol.


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## dmp

cslaughlin13 said:


> would you care to explain please?



I was born with the DESIRE for money.  I'm not a 'bank robber' until I actually rob a bank.

Get it?


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## OCA

jillian said:


> And your scientific proof of this? I personally have never known anyone who was a "convert" to homosexuality. You?




Every single queer at one point makes a conscious choice to partake in queer activities since every single human being is born with the innate urge to mate with the OPPOSITE sex, that is scientific fact.


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## OCA

Queers will never admit to making that choice though, why would they? Who ever admits they fucked their life up from their own stupidity?


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## OCA

dmp said:


> I was born with the DESIRE for money.  I'm not a 'bank robber' until I actually rob a bank.
> 
> Get it?



Exactly. I have a neighbor who has a hot, I mean smoking wife whom I covet very much but.................I know its wrong so I don't do it. "Its like that and thats the way it is" Grandmaster Flash circa 1979


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## cslaughlin13

yes dmp, I understand your point, but, I was not talking about acting, but rather the desire.  Being gay means that on ehas a sexual attraction towards the same sex, nienna was arguing the point of whether or not that attraction can be changed.  Of course if I wanted to, I could be celibate for the rest of my life, but it still would not change my attraction towards men.  Chances are that people that are considering to change are probably not having sex.
And even though you desire money, do you think that you could change you desire so that you detested money?


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## cslaughlin13

OCA, I don't think that I have a fucked up life, in fact, I am happy, although you will probably say that I am not, so there really is no point in trying to convince you.  You are ABSOLUTELY right about the fact that I made a choice to have sex with other men, but the desire has always existed.


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## jillian

OCA said:


> Queers will never admit to making that choice though, why would they? Who ever admits they fucked their life up from their own stupidity?



If you're capable of getting the vituperation under control for a minute, I'll tell you what one of my friends told me. He told me he dated tons of women all the way through college, even though he knew he wasn't attracted to women...and knew from the time he was little that he liked boys. The point he made to me is that no one chooses being different like that. No one chooses to be alienated by their family. No one chooses to have a life with no kids and always being different.

I can also tell you that when my son was less than 3, he took possession of a TV Guide with a pic of Brittney Spears on it because he thought she was pretty. And when he was 5 he asked if we could move to South Beach because he liked looking at the girls in the dental floss bikinis. That was something he was born with. At the same time, one of his best friends (a little boy the same age as my son), while they were watching the Harry Potter movie, walked over to the TV and said "isn't Malfoy handsome?" He was born with that, too. My son never would have looked at Malfoy or noticed such a thing.

Do you think a 5 year old should be reviled? Cause I think that would be awfully sad. Neither of these little boys made any choices. And while my husband was, admittedly, quite relieved at my son's proclivities, I can't imagine his friend not being entitled to just as much love.


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## MissileMan

OCA said:


> Every single queer at one point makes a conscious choice to partake in queer activities since every single human being is born with the innate urge to mate with the OPPOSITE sex, that is scientific fact.



There is no evidence to support your statement...as a matter of fact, I would say the existence of millions of homosexuals, just here in the U.S. is pretty strong evidence to the contrary.


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## OCA

cslaughlin13 said:


> OCA, I don't think that I have a fucked up life, in fact, I am happy, although you will probably say that I am not, so there really is no point in trying to convince you.  You are ABSOLUTELY right about the fact that I made a choice to have sex with other men, but the desire has always existed.



You are lying to yourself, its a scientific fact that the desire did not exist until you made that conscious choice to do it.

I'm sure many heroin addicts say they have a great life too, nobody ever admits they fucked up.


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## Nienna

cslaughlin13 said:


> nienna, even though you can give me many testimonials of ex-gays, I can give you just as many, or more testimonials from gays that say that you cannot change.
> I'm simply stating that if you are not gay, then how would you know.


I am a female, however, I know that my husband is a male. I am not athletic, however, I know that my daughter is a very good soccer player. I like rainy days, but I know that my husband finds them depressing and boring. I know that it is possible to leave the homosexual lifestyle because I believe others' statements and witness their changed behavior.



> I am also against censorship for many things, this includes ex-gay testimonials, but you also need to remember that even though some gay people may want to become straight and change, you should not necessarily be saying that it is 100% possible when there is no scientific evidence for this. Also, there are many people, like me, that *do not care to change*, so i don't think that you should necessarily be going to gay people and shoving it down their throats that they must change.



I do believe it is 100% possible, but it may not be possible for 100% of people. I believe the bolded statement above is the critical criterion for whether or not change is possible.

I do not think that ex-gays telling their stories and giving general public encouragement is "soving it down throats." What do you consider "shoving it down someone's throat"?


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## OCA

MissileMan said:


> There is no evidence to support your statement...as a matter of fact, I would say the existence of millions of homosexuals, just here in the U.S. is pretty strong evidence to the contrary.



So biology is wrong? Are you that arrogant?


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## MissileMan

OCA said:


> So biology is wrong? Are you that arrogant?



Biology doesn't get it right anywhere near 100% of the time.


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## OCA

jillian said:


> he wasn't attracted to women...and knew from the time he was little that he liked boys. The point he made to me is that no one chooses being different like that. No one chooses to be alienated by their family. No one chooses to have a life with no kids and always being different.
> 
> Yes, yes and yes he did make those choices, your giving him a free pass instead of holding him responsible. Would you do that if one of your friends was smoking crack?/COLOR]
> 
> 
> Do you think a 5 year old should be reviled? Cause I think that would be awfully sad. Neither of these little boys made any choices. And while my husband was, admittedly, quite relieved at my son's proclivities, I can't imagine his friend not being entitled to just as much love.




The 5 year old should be continually monitored from now on and if behavior continues treatment such as counseling should be sought.

I screwed this post up, go into the quoted section to find my thoughts on the queer college boy.


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## OCA

MissileMan said:


> Biology doesn't get it right anywhere near 100% of the time.



Scientific fact in the human world, male to female and vice versa..........never changes at birth.


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## dmp

cslaughlin13 said:


> Being gay means that on ehas a sexual attraction towards the same sex



No - Being homosexual means "having sex with others of the same gender".


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## OCA

dmp said:


> No - Being homosexual means "having sex with others of the same gender".




Same as homosexual love which in reality is just degenerate lust.


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## MissileMan

OCA said:


> Scientific fact in the human world, male to female and vice versa..........never changes at birth.



If this is a repeat of your position that everyone is born heterosexual, it's still baseless.  Biology gets lots of things wrong.  Based on their numbers and based on my heterosexuality, I arrive at the possibility/probability that homosexuality is something a person is born with, and is likely as incureable as retardation, blindness, missing limbs, etc.


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## MissileMan

dmp said:


> No - Being homosexual means "having sex with others of the same gender".



That's like saying a shark isn't a carnivore if you keep it in a tank and never feed it.


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## mattskramer

OCA said:


> Same as homosexual love which in reality is just degenerate lust.



Oh, now that is just absurd.  I suppose that heterosexual love is just degenerate lust.

Love, be it heterosexual or homosexual, is a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.


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## ScreamingEagle

mattskramer said:


> People should help people if those people want help. It is not our position to insist that they need help and had better get help. Unlike many people in the &#8220;homosexual community&#8221; I think that, through severe conditioning and intense counseling, you can turn a homosexual into a heterosexual.  You can turn a left-handed person into a right-handed person. You can turn a smoker into a non-smoker. You could probably turn a heterosexual into a homosexual.  You can turn a non-smoker into a smoker. Just as you can soften up hard clay and mold it into different things, you can change a person&#8217;s psyche but why would you do it? You would do it only if the person really wants to change.



Seems I've heard that most homosexuals claim that being gay is not their CHOICE - they wouldn't CHOOSE the gay lifestyle if there was any CHOICE about it.

Now you're saying if that if they had this CHOICE to get cured, they wouldn't take it?  They would still CHOOSE to be gay?  

I'm getting confused - which is it?  :scratch:


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## mattskramer

dmp said:


> No - Being homosexual means "having sex with others of the same gender".



Wow.  What a limited definition.  I suppose that being homosexual merely means, "having sex with others of the opposite gender".  If you don't have sex, are you a homosexual or a heterosexual?


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## OCA

MissileMan said:


> If this is a repeat of your position that everyone is born heterosexual, it's still baseless.  Biology gets lots of things wrong.  Based on their numbers and based on my heterosexuality, I arrive at the possibility/probability that homosexuality is something a person is born with, and is likely as incureable as retardation, blindness, missing limbs, etc.



You arrive incorrectly.


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## cslaughlin13

OCA, would you please show me this "scientific fact" that I only had the desire after I had made a conscious choice.
I am very eager to see it, please show me it.


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## OCA

mattskramer said:


> Oh, now that is just absurd.  I suppose that heterosexual love is just degenerate lust.
> 
> Love, be it heterosexual or homosexual, is a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.



There he is, right on time. Can I get a lefthand or a cigarette please? What a joke.


----------



## dmp

MissileMan said:


> That's like saying a shark isn't a carnivore if you keep it in a tank and never feed it.



No - but close.  A shark which eats only Veggies  isn't a carnivore.   

A person with SEXUAL feels towards memebers of the same sex is just a person who needs HELP until they start feeding that desire.


----------



## OCA

cslaughlin13 said:


> OCA, would you please show me this "scientific fact" that I only had the desire after I had made a conscious choice.
> I am very eager to see it, please show me it.



Take biology 101 and you will discover that at some point you made a choice because sure as hell people aren't born that way.


----------



## OCA

mattskramer said:


> Oh, now that is just absurd.  I suppose that heterosexual love is just degenerate lust.
> 
> Love, be it heterosexual or homosexual, is a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.



No, its just degenerate lust.


----------



## mattskramer

ScreamingEagle said:


> Seems I've heard that most homosexuals claim that being gay is not their CHOICE - they wouldn't CHOOSE the gay lifestyle if there was any CHOICE about it.
> 
> Now you're saying if that if they had this CHOICE to get cured, they wouldn't take it?  They would still CHOOSE to be gay?
> 
> I'm getting confused - which is it?  :scratch:



People say, The devil is in the details. There is so much political bias, prejudice, and ego floating around.  There are also many people who seem to avoid deep thinking and reading. Anyway, I dont know how I could make my point any simpler, but I will try. 

Some people think that being gay is a choice.  Some people think that it is not a choice.  

Some people think that it is a choice and that people, given the choice, choose to be gay.  Some people think that it is a choice and that people, given the choice, choose to be straight.

Some people think that being gay is not a choice but that, if given enough treatment may become straight.  Finally, some people think that being gay is not a choice and that, no matter how much medical treatment and/or psychological treatment that they receive, they can never go straight. 

I dont know to what degree, if any, being gay is a choice.  I dont know to what degree, if any, being gay is not a choice.  I dont think that it matters.  I dont know how hard it would be to make a gay person into a straight person or vice versa.  Yet, with respect to many conditions, I do believe that anyone, wanting to be anything, can be treated medically and/or psychologically, to become what he wants to be.  

Gays can be straight if they are willing to go through perhaps very severe medical and mental treatment through many months.  Even a straight person can become gay. Some gay people, after being fully informed of what the treatment may involve, might choose to remain gay.


----------



## mattskramer

OCA said:


> No, its just degenerate lust.



Help me out here.  Heterosexual love is degenerate lust and homosexual love is degenerate lust?


----------



## mattskramer

OCA said:


> Take biology 101 and you will discover that at some point you made a choice because sure as hell people aren't born that way.



Yep.  I choose to love that person  man or woman.  I choose to lust that person  man or woman.  I choose to smoke cigarettes or I choose to smoke cigars - or I choose to not smoke. I choose chocolate ice cream or I choose vanilla ice cream.  Life is full of choices but I dont think that any doctor can cure me of my preference for chocolate ice cream  but it does not really matter  does it?


----------



## OCA

mattskramer said:


> Help me out here.  Heterosexual love is degenerate lust and homosexual love is degenerate lust?



No fool, two men cannot love each other in the same fashion that a man and woman love each other as a couple. Round peg, square hole. 

Degenerate lust not love, understand?

Be a man and turn on your rep feature.


----------



## OCA

mattskramer said:


> Yep.  I choose to love that person  man or woman.  I choose to lust that person  man or woman.  I choose to smoke cigarettes or I choose to smoke cigars - or I choose to not smoke. I choose chocolate ice cream or I choose vanilla ice cream.  Life is full of choices but I dont think that any doctor can cure me of my preference for chocolate ice cream  but it does not really matter  does it?



Lol, ever hear of AIDS?

If your friend decides to shoot heroin do you say "oh well its his choice, I can't say anything"?

Come on, you know homosexuality is wrong................oh wait I forgot about that tryst of yours.


----------



## ScreamingEagle

mattskramer said:


> People say, &#8220;The devil is in the details&#8221;. There is so much political bias, prejudice, and ego floating around.  There are also many people who seem to avoid deep thinking and reading. Anyway, I don&#8217;t know how I could make my point any simpler, but I will try.
> 
> Some people think that being gay is a choice.  Some people think that it is not a choice.
> 
> Some people think that it is a choice and that people, given the choice, choose to be gay.  Some people think that it is a choice and that people, given the choice, choose to be straight.
> 
> Some people think that being gay is not a choice but that, if given enough treatment may become straight.  Finally, some people think that being gay is not a choice and that, no matter how much medical treatment and/or psychological treatment that they receive, they can never go straight.
> 
> I don&#8217;t know to what degree, if any, being gay is a choice.  I don&#8217;t know to what degree, if any, being gay is not a choice.  I don&#8217;t think that it matters.  I don&#8217;t know how hard it would be to make a gay person into a straight person or vice versa.  Yet, with respect to many conditions, I do believe that anyone, wanting to be anything, can be treated medically and/or psychologically, to become what he wants to be.
> 
> Gays can be straight if they are willing to go through perhaps very severe medical and mental treatment through many months.  Even a straight person can become gay. Some gay people, after being fully informed of what the treatment may involve, might choose to remain gay.




Well that made it clear as mud.  Some gays think this and some gays think that.   It appears that nobody really knows anything for sure.  Except in the Bible.


----------



## mattskramer

OCA said:


> No fool, two men cannot love each other in the same fashion that a man and woman love each other as a couple. Round peg, square hole.
> 
> Degenerate lust not love, understand?
> 
> Be a man and turn on your rep feature.



Oh well. We agree to disagree.  I say that two men can love each other in the same fashion that a man and woman love each other as a couple.  Particularly when it comes to the deep profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.  Just look at the definition of love in dictionary.com and keep in mind that love and sex are two different things. 

The only real difference that I see is that a womans body is not the same as a mans physical body.  Therefore penis-vagina sex is not possible. But outside of that minor technicality, homosexual love is the same as heterosexual love.

I am a man whether or not I turn on the rep feature.


----------



## cslaughlin13

OCA, you should probably go back to college, or if you haven't, go to college because you are not describing biology.  Last time I checked, gender and sexuality is not in the course curriculum of a biology course, you are probably talking more about the realm of psychology.
And by the way, if you think psychology says homosexuality is a choice and that it is wrong, then I would advise you to take a psychology course.
A Logic course may also help you because you seem to lack it.


----------



## mattskramer

ScreamingEagle said:


> Well that made it clear as mud.  Some gays think this and some gays think that.   It appears that nobody really knows anything for sure.  Except in the Bible.



Well, it looks like you are beginning to understand that not all things are Black-and-White. Do all Republicans agree with George Bush on everything?  Do all men like baseball?  No.  Individuals are different. Pat Robertson does not speak for all Christians. Gay" organizations dont speak for each individual gay person. Ultimately, you are responsible for yourself. 

Why did you bring up the Bible? That seems like it belongs in an entirely different thread.  (1.) First of all, the Bibles reliability and validity is easily debated.  Some people consider it to be a good piece of fiction coupled with good advice.  In a way, it is not far removed from Aesops fables.  (2.) Secondly, even those who believe that God exists, and that the Bible is true, have their own translation and interpretation of it.  Some people have even been able to argue that god does not condone homosexuality. If you actually care to read from their perspective, a brief google search should suffice. (3.) Thirdly, and ultimately, people might choose to go to hell.  Look, when all is said and done, if God exist, he she it or they with be the ultimate judge for each person.  You will not be their judge.


----------



## mattskramer

cslaughlin13 said:


> OCA, you should probably go back to college, or if you haven't, go to college because you are not describing biology.  Last time I checked, gender and sexuality is not in the course curriculum of a biology course, you are probably talking more about the realm of psychology.
> And by the way, if you think psychology says homosexuality is a choice and that it is wrong, then I would advise you to take a psychology course.
> A Logic course may also help you because you seem to lack it.



Good point.  OCA seems to be overly focused on the physical aspects of relationships.  You are also right in recommending that he take a course in basic logic.  Dont hold your breath with the hope that he improves. Ive debated him for months and even when I clearly point to his erroneous and fallacious comments, he almost never admits to them.


----------



## Nienna

Matt, I was trying to PM you, but I guess you aren't receiving them?


----------



## ScreamingEagle

mattskramer said:


> Well, it looks like you are beginning to understand that not all things are Black-and-White. Do all Republicans agree with George Bush on everything?  Do all men like baseball?  No.  Individuals are different. Pat Robertson does not speak for all Christians. &#8220;Gay" organizations don&#8217;t speak for each individual gay person. Ultimately, you are responsible for yourself.
> 
> Why did you bring up the Bible? That seems like it belongs in an entirely different thread.  (1.) First of all, the Bible&#8217;s reliability and validity is easily debated.  Some people consider it to be a good piece of fiction coupled with good advice.  In a way, it is not far removed from Aesop&#8217;s fables.  (2.) Secondly, even those who believe that God exists, and that the Bible is true, have their own translation and interpretation of it.  Some people have even been able to argue that god does not condone homosexuality. If you actually care to read from their perspective, a brief google search should suffice. (3.) Thirdly, and ultimately, people might choose to go to hell.  Look, when all is said and done, if God exist, he she it or they with be the ultimate judge for each person. &#8211; You will not be their judge.



Yep, you're right, there are lots of different opinions and none of us will be the ultimate judge of anyone.  However, here and now, we the people are the judge and jury of behavior within the confines of our country and the majority rules.

:gang1:


----------



## mattskramer

Nienna said:


> Matt, I was trying to PM you, but I guess you aren't receiving them?



Okay. I reset my PM.


----------



## mattskramer

ScreamingEagle said:


> Yep, you're right, there are lots of different opinions and none of us will be the ultimate judge of anyone.  However, here and now, we the people are the judge and jury of behavior within the confines of our country and the majority rules.
> 
> :gang1:



Yes.  The majority can be wrong with its views, policies, or even with its opinions. Saying that the majority has this opinion says nothing except that the majority has this opinion. Still, we live in a Republic (a representative democracy) where the majority typically rules. I think that we agree with that.


----------



## Nienna

mattskramer said:


> Okay. I reset my PM.



LOL! Now it says your PM box is full!


----------



## mattskramer

Nienna said:


> LOL! Now it says your PM box is full!



Okay.  Now try it if you like.  Sorry.  I don't pay much attention to that feature.


----------



## Avatar4321

cslaughlin13 said:


> yes dmp, I understand your point, but, I was not talking about acting, but rather the desire.  Being gay means that on ehas a sexual attraction towards the same sex, nienna was arguing the point of whether or not that attraction can be changed.  Of course if I wanted to, I could be celibate for the rest of my life, but it still would not change my attraction towards men.  Chances are that people that are considering to change are probably not having sex.
> And even though you desire money, do you think that you could change you desire so that you detested money?



Human nature can be changed. Human nature has been changed in the past. Human nature must be changed to a large extent if we are to avoid utter destruction.


----------



## 007

cslaughlin13 said:


> How many of you people for ex-gays are actually gay?
> 
> I am gay...



Wait a minute... are you saying you're happy? I don't think so. I think you're trying to say you're a FAGGOT.





cslaughlin13 said:


> ... and I believe from a first hand perspective that it cannot be changed,



And that's because you don't WANT it to be changed... in YOUR life. You LIKE sucking cock and taking it up the ass, while the rest of us NORMAL people find that utterly and absolutely vile, disgusting, repugnant, revolting, sick and perverted.



cslaughlin13 said:


> I don't care to censor anything,



Yes you do. You're doing your damndest to throw the article I posted to the curb without merit, just like we'd expect from a "don't want to change sick ass faggot".



cslaughlin13 said:


> but how can you proclaim that homosexuality can be changed when you yourself are not one.
> If you truly believe by one person's testimonial that one's sexuality can be changed, then logic would suggest by that if a straight person became gay under therapy, then you should be able to do the same.



You can't change a person's sexuality. A person is either born a man or a woman. It's the person's "thinking" and the "choices they make" that are changable with therapy.

Homosexuality is a sickness. A filthy, shitty, born of the devil disease. Those of you who look at it as cute, or not hurting anyone else, which by the way is NOT TRUE, that condone such behavior, and yes even "tolerate it", are all enablers. You perpetuate the sickness.

Do a faggot a favor. Tell him/her they're sick and need help. Tell them what they do makes you want to PUKE! Stop pretending it doesn't.


----------



## cslaughlin13

quoted by pale: "Yes you do. You're doing your damndest to throw the article I posted to the curb without merit, just like we'd expect from a "don't want to change sick ass faggot"."

Pale, you do realize that there is a difference between censorship and disagreement, right?
If I wanted to censor your article, that would mean that I would not let it be posted.
If I am disagreeing with you, then I don't share the same view point about it that you do and I have the right to post my opinion as well.

BTW, what did gay people ever do to you?
You seem very threatened by my presence.  Calling people faggots is not very nice you know.


----------



## 007

cslaughlin13 said:


> quoted by pale: "Yes you do. You're doing your damndest to throw the article I posted to the curb without merit, just like we'd expect from a "don't want to change sick ass faggot"."
> 
> Pale, you do realize that there is a difference between censorship and disagreement, right?
> If I wanted to censor your article, that would mean that I would not let it be posted.
> If I am disagreeing with you, then I don't share the same view point about it that you do and I have the right to post my opinion as well.
> 
> BTW, what did gay people ever do to you?
> You seem very threatened by my presence.  Calling people faggots is not very nice you know.




You and your kind just turn my stomach. You lolligag around like what you're doing is cute. Well it's not. You're all sick, and you need someone to tell you that.


----------



## cslaughlin13

By the way, Are you part of the Westboro Baptist church?
They would seem to be a very good fit for a person like you, I'm sure you would have to start protesting about how god hates america, but I'm sure you would do that just to protest against those "FAG ENABLERS".


----------



## 007

cslaughlin13 said:


> By the way, Are you part of the Westboro Baptist church?
> They would seem to be a very good fit for a person like you, I'm sure you would have to start protesting about how god hates america, but I'm sure you would do that just to protest against those "FAG ENABLERS".



Try the Hells Angels and you'll be a little closer.


----------



## cslaughlin13

aw, what a shame,
you could have been worshipping god and protesting against homosexuals at the same time.  Are you sure you wouldn't like to reconsider, I'm sure it would become your new famous pastime.


----------



## 007

cslaughlin13 said:


> aw, what a shame,
> you could have been worshipping god and protesting against homosexuals at the same time.  Are you sure you wouldn't like to reconsider, I'm sure it would become your new famous pastime.



Save your tepid humor for your butt buddies. 

It's obvious you've been nailed to the floor by the truth and now have nothing more to say that matters, so just shut up and try and save some face. Being a faggot is hard enough without looking like an idiot on top of it.


----------



## cslaughlin13

why do you have such a hatred towards homosexuals?
It almost makes it seem like you have nothing else to do with your day except to hate homosexuals.


----------



## Avatar4321

cslaughlin13 said:


> why do you have such a hatred towards homosexuals?
> It almost makes it seem like you have nothing else to do with your day except to hate homosexuals.



Maybe he is just tired of having a perverse lifestyle shoved in his face and the repeated attempts of the gay community to bypass the Democratic process and dictate to people what they can or cant do. of course he could probably answer better than I can.


----------



## 007

cslaughlin13 said:


> why do you have such a hatred towards homosexuals?
> It almost makes it seem like you have nothing else to do with your day except to hate homosexuals.



I see you people as weak. You've given in to your sickness, without as much as an attempt at getting help. You want me and every other normal person to accept your sickness and perverted, deviant, disgusting sex acts you commit on each other as "OK". 

"YOU" people are usually the MILITANT ones, who pile on the first person who voices opposition to you. You want to silence that person at all cost. You shout them down and demonize them with your catch phrases and names like "homophobe", and "hater".

We'll I'm one of the people who aren't afraid to tell you that you're disgusting and sick. And nothing you do will silence me. And the fact of the matter is, I speak for the VAST MAJORITY of people. 

I don't "hate" the "homosexual". I "hate" what the homosexual DOES. I "respect" those who have recognized their sickness for what it is, and have gotten help. They stopped kidding themselves, and got help, which is what YOU should do, instead of being here wondering why I find you so disgusting. You should know.


----------



## cslaughlin13

you are calling me the militant one?
so I'm the "militant one" because I have yet to call you a single name, but all you can do is say stuff about how I am a "faggot", "queer", me and my "butt buddies", etc.
yet, you seem to be the one, starting up a thread to flame homosexuals.  See, this is where your logic always fails.  According to you, it is okay that you constantly berate me with your hateful words yet when I disagree with you , I'm suddenly trying to censor your ideas and bring down the core ethics of the American population???

And for Avatar, how does the gay community bypass the democratic process?  I would really like to know about that one, And how does the gay community dictate what people do or don't do???  We are a minority so could I assume the opposite and say that since you and many other people consist of the majority that you, in fact, tell us what we can and can't do.  Last time I checked, I can't be legally joined with another man, I am not entitled to benefits that straigh couples are, so I really don't see how we control you, it is really the opposite way.


----------



## 007

cslaughlin13 said:


> you are calling me the militant one?



I said, and now I have to repeat myself, that you fags are by far more militant about this debate than normal people. So you're trying to hold your cool... so what. The rest of you have been militant for quite some time. Bonnie just posted an article about how you fags now want to tell normal people what "YOU" think "tolerance" should be. It's not GOOD enough that people DO tolerate you, now you have to DEMAND upon us just what it is you think tolerance should be.



cslaughlin13 said:


> so I'm the "militant one" because I have yet to call you a single name, but all you can do is say stuff about how I am a "faggot", "queer", me and my "butt buddies", etc.
> yet, you seem to be the one, starting up a thread to flame homosexuals.  See, this is where your logic always fails.  According to you, it is okay that you constantly berate me with your hateful words yet when I disagree with you , I'm suddenly trying to censor your ideas and bring down the core ethics of the American population???



My "logic" is NATURE, and I'm not the one bucking nature. You are.

And yes, you fags DO denegrate humanity as a whole with your filthy, perverted ways.


----------



## Avatar4321

cslaughlin13 said:


> you are calling me the militant one?
> so I'm the "militant one" because I have yet to call you a single name, but all you can do is say stuff about how I am a "faggot", "queer", me and my "butt buddies", etc.
> yet, you seem to be the one, starting up a thread to flame homosexuals.  See, this is where your logic always fails.  According to you, it is okay that you constantly berate me with your hateful words yet when I disagree with you , I'm suddenly trying to censor your ideas and bring down the core ethics of the American population???
> 
> And for Avatar, how does the gay community bypass the democratic process?  I would really like to know about that one, And how does the gay community dictate what people do or don't do???  We are a minority so could I assume the opposite and say that since you and many other people consist of the majority that you, in fact, tell us what we can and can't do.  Last time I checked, I can't be legally joined with another man, I am not entitled to benefits that straigh couples are, so I really don't see how we control you, it is really the opposite way.



How is pointing to the fact that there are recovering homosexuals, a point that utterly destroyed the entire argument of the homosexual community, flaming homosexuals?

How is the gay community not bypassing the Democratic system? Rather than letting the people decide whether they want to accept gay marriage as part of society they have been militant in forcing it on the people. They pushed it through the Massachusetts Supreme Court and forced the people to accept it. Officials of San Fransisco have blatantly violated the laws of California, which was voted on directly by the people, to license and solemnize gay marriages.

Never once has the gay community tried to advocate their position through the Democratic process and convince people to accept their position. Instead they have always pushed it through the Courts. Lawrence v. Texas made it illegal for citizens of the united states to engage in the Democratic process concerning homosexuality.

Of course people are going to be upset with you trying to undermine both family values and the very foundation of this Republic. Personally I am sick and tired of people parading perversion in front of me and telling me Im wrong for objecting to it. I am tired of people telling me I am a "hateful bigot" because I disagree with what they do, especially when they try to force it upon society. And I am sick and tired of people trying to undermine the foundations of freedom in this nation.

This is supposed to be a government of the people, by the people, and for the people and im tired of the homosexual community as well other minority interests groups telling the American people that we dont have a right to have a government and society as we want them and that we are going to have your skewed point of views forced upon us.

If you want to go do whatever you want with consenting adults in the privacy of your own home go ahead. Yeah its sick, Yeah its unhealthy and yeah its a detriment to society but its your own choice. But stop trying to parade it in front of people. Stop trying to force people to accept it. Because the more you try to force people to accepet it the more you will find a backlash from good and decent people who arent going to put up with such trash. 

And it is trash. You turn something as beautiful and sacred as sex and turn into utter garbage because you claim "I can't help it".

Its called self control you have it. But you choose not to use it. And it makes you utterly miserable. But rather than conclude that you are miserable from your actions, you accuse others for making you miserable. I've listened to gay activists and some of them are very clear that the reason they are pushing this is to make everyone as miserable as they are. You are miserable because you are making bad choices. So stop making bad choices and you wont be miserable.

I am just tired of people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. I am tired of all the excuses. I am tired of all this sophistry. I am tired of people whining about how they cant do anything about it. You choose your actions. Take responsibility for them. Stop trying to excuse them and avoiding the consequences of your bad mistakes. And stop trying to force others to accept responsibility for your bad mistakes too. Because its society that suffers because of your mistakes. The effects might not be immediately but within a generation or two we will see the horrible effects of it. You cant fool around carelessly with the powers that create life without getting burnt and burning everything around you.


----------



## OCA

cslaughlin13 said:


> OCA, you should probably go back to college, or if you haven't, go to college because you are not describing biology.  Last time I checked, gender and sexuality is not in the course curriculum of a biology course, you are probably talking more about the realm of psychology.
> And by the way, if you think psychology says homosexuality is a choice and that it is wrong, then I would advise you to take a psychology course.
> A Logic course may also help you because you seem to lack it.



Severna Park, eh? Probably explains why nobody has ever put a foot in yourc ass and told you that you are making bad choices.

Anyway most human sexuality courses are under the biology section. Psychology says queerness isn't a choice because of immense pressure that the homosexual leadership laid upon an APA conference way back about 30+ years ago so they would change their position, now any reputeable psychologist weho comes out as homosexuality being a choice or mental disorder gets pummelled by the queer leadership.


----------



## OCA

mattskramer said:


> Good point.  OCA seems to be overly focused on the physical aspects of relationships.  You are also right in recommending that he take a course in basic logic.  Dont hold your breath with the hope that he improves. Ive debated him for months and even when I clearly point to his erroneous and fallacious comments, he almost never admits to them.



LMFAO! Matts you get trashed by everyone on this subject with your innane analogies and holier than thou attitude. I've smacked you down each time you've dared to climb my mountain.


----------



## OCA

OCA's official position on queers marriage:

homosexuality is a choice and a wrong one at that, if you want to fist your buddy's ass in the privacy of your own home have at it but in the public arena you need to know that shit is not considered kosher. Queers are not interested in marriage, they are interested in legitimizing their perversion of choice and marriage is just the vehicle they are driving to get to that point..........they will never arrive at their destination.


----------



## 007

Avatar4321 said:


> How is pointing to the fact that there are recovering homosexuals, a point that utterly destroyed the entire argument of the homosexual community, flaming homosexuals?
> 
> How is the gay community not bypassing the Democratic system? Rather than letting the people decide whether they want to accept gay marriage as part of society they have been militant in forcing it on the people. They pushed it through the Massachusetts Supreme Court and forced the people to accept it. Officials of San Fransisco have blatantly violated the laws of California, which was voted on directly by the people, to license and solemnize gay marriages.
> 
> Never once has the gay community tried to advocate their position through the Democratic process and convince people to accept their position. Instead they have always pushed it through the Courts. Lawrence v. Texas made it illegal for citizens of the united states to engage in the Democratic process concerning homosexuality.
> 
> Of course people are going to be upset with you trying to undermine both family values and the very foundation of this Republic. Personally I am sick and tired of people parading perversion in front of me and telling me Im wrong for objecting to it. I am tired of people telling me I am a "hateful bigot" because I disagree with what they do, especially when they try to force it upon society. And I am sick and tired of people trying to undermine the foundations of freedom in this nation.
> 
> This is supposed to be a government of the people, by the people, and for the people and im tired of the homosexual community as well other minority interests groups telling the American people that we dont have a right to have a government and society as we want them and that we are going to have your skewed point of views forced upon us.
> 
> If you want to go do whatever you want with consenting adults in the privacy of your own home go ahead. Yeah its sick, Yeah its unhealthy and yeah its a detriment to society but its your own choice. But stop trying to parade it in front of people. Stop trying to force people to accept it. Because the more you try to force people to accepet it the more you will find a backlash from good and decent people who arent going to put up with such trash.
> 
> And it is trash. You turn something as beautiful and sacred as sex and turn into utter garbage because you claim "I can't help it".
> 
> Its called self control you have it. But you choose not to use it. And it makes you utterly miserable. But rather than conclude that you are miserable from your actions, you accuse others for making you miserable. I've listened to gay activists and some of them are very clear that the reason they are pushing this is to make everyone as miserable as they are. You are miserable because you are making bad choices. So stop making bad choices and you wont be miserable.
> 
> *I am just tired of people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. I am tired of all the excuses. I am tired of all this sophistry. I am tired of people whining about how they cant do anything about it. You choose your actions. Take responsibility for them. Stop trying to excuse them and avoiding the consequences of your bad mistakes. And stop trying to force others to accept responsibility for your bad mistakes too. Because its society that suffers because of your mistakes. The effects might not be immediately but within a generation or two we will see the horrible effects of it. You cant fool around carelessly with the powers that create life without getting burnt and burning everything around you*.





Pale Rider...


> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Avatar4321 again.


----------



## mattskramer

OCA said:


> LMFAO! Matts you get trashed by everyone on this subject with your innane analogies and holier than thou attitude. I've smacked you down each time you've dared to climb my mountain.



Mountian?!?  LOL  more like an anthill. 

Oh, wow!  From where do I begin?  Do you remember this?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=66051&postcount=121



> I'm guessing that mattskramer is queer?



What erroneous and irrelevant name-calling. I suppose that if I want to allow people to drink alcohol, I must be an alcoholic.  If I want people to be allowed to smoke, I must have a nicotine addiction.  Your logic and reasoning ability leaves very much to be desired. 

Within the same thread, see:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=66356&postcount=172



> Have never heard of one being denied the right to visit a butt buddy in the hospital, show me some examples.



Look up Flanigan v. University of Maryland Medical System Corporation
No.  That might be too difficult or time-consuming for you.  Ill do the legwork for you. Just read:

http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/press.html?record=1011

Finding an example was just too easy.  Next time, do just a little bit of research before showing your laziness and ignorance. 

Dont you see that I am not a coward to answer challenges put to me.  Lets see how you weasel out of answering the simplest of questions.  See:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=250210&postcount=36



> Everybody read the 2nd amendment again, there is no ambiguity there nor is it vague. An armed citizenry is the best deterrent to a tyrannical government.
> 
> Now as for the ridiculous arguments about IBCM's and bazookas, let me know where the common citizen can get his hands on one....until then we'll consider that argument to be foolish.
> .



Uh.  No. It is not foolish to consider whether something is right or wrong before it happens. You need not have an event happen before considering if such an even, should it happen, is right or wrong. Even Johnney had enough class to give me a straight answer.  

Look, debating you is childs play.


----------



## mattskramer

OCA said:


> OCA's official position on queers marriage:
> 
> homosexuality is a choice and a wrong one at that,



The great one has spoken.  LOL.  Well, everyone is entitled to his opinion. 



> if you want to fist your buddy's ass in the privacy of your own home have at it but in the public arena you need to know that shit is not considered kosher.



Gay or straight, such activity should not be done in public.  So  no argument there. 



> Queers are not interested in marriage, they are interested in legitimizing their perversion of choice and marriage is just the vehicle they are driving to get to that point..........they will never arrive at their destination.



That was a nice bit of mind reading. LOL


----------



## Kagom

Nienna said:


> There is the suggestion, still under investigation, of course, that straight people DO become gay, many times because of abuse, neglect, or other factors.
> 
> I can claim that homosexuality can be changed because of numerous testimonies, not just one.
> http://www.exodus-international.org/
> 
> http://www.drthrockmorton.com/idoexist.asp



Tsk tsk tsk, using sources that are inherently biased to begin with as well as use misinformation and definitely don't use random samples.


----------



## Yurt

Should a hetrosexual male or female with aids continue to have sex is this spreads the disease?  Afterall, they are only hetrosexual and have urges.

My stance:

I part with Pale when it comes to "accepting" homosexuals."  This is based on a discussion him and I had a couple years ago, so if currently wrong, apologize outright.  I have no problem with someone having feelings for the same sex, I don't know what makes them have that feeling, nor does anyone on this planet know.  No matter what they say.  

What is wrong, is the propagation of disease (or for my fellow christians, sin, which is actually tied to disease) by sticking a life making organ into a dumpster.  

Feelings are feelings.  Acting on it is another matter.  I wanted to fire the missiles that I just installed on my car, so that I could wipe out a few drivers today, but I left the missiles armed and not fired.  :bat:  

There is a guy at my undergrad christian school that is gay.  Yet, he is celebate.  Because he knows the sin.  Is there is a "cure" for him?  No.  He should never be forced to be hetro, stupid.


----------



## OCA

mattskramer said:


> Mountian?!?  LOL  more like an anthill.
> 
> Oh, wow!  From where do I begin?  Do you remember this?
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=66051&postcount=121
> 
> 
> 
> What erroneous and irrelevant name-calling. I suppose that if I want to allow people to drink alcohol, I must be an alcoholic.  If I want people to be allowed to smoke, I must have a nicotine addiction.  Your logic and reasoning ability leaves very much to be desired.
> 
> Within the same thread, see:
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=66356&postcount=172
> 
> 
> 
> Look up Flanigan v. University of Maryland Medical System Corporation
> No.  That might be too difficult or time-consuming for you.  Ill do the legwork for you. Just read:
> 
> http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/press.html?record=1011
> 
> Finding an example was just too easy.  Next time, do just a little bit of research before showing your laziness and ignorance.
> 
> Dont you see that I am not a coward to answer challenges put to me.  Lets see how you weasel out of answering the simplest of questions.  See:
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=250210&postcount=36
> 
> 
> 
> Uh.  No. It is not foolish to consider whether something is right or wrong before it happens. You need not have an event happen before considering if such an even, should it happen, is right or wrong. Even Johnney had enough class to give me a straight answer.
> 
> Look, debating you is childs play.



Uhhh ICBM and bazookas, get back to me when you jump into reality. I have way too much class to answer questions rooted in unrealistic fantasy.

Uhhh Matts, you jerked off another guy or at least jerked off so another could watch, you my mentally challenged member are as queer as the day is long.


----------



## Nienna

Kagom said:


> Tsk tsk tsk, using sources that are inherently biased to begin with as well as use misinformation and definitely don't use random samples.



I don't see what all that has to do with a bunch of people standing up and telling their personal journeys out of homosexuality. Unless you are calling those people liars? And how would you prove that?


----------



## Kagom

Nienna said:


> I don't see what all that has to do with a bunch of people standing up and telling their personal journeys out of homosexuality. Unless you are calling those people liars? And how would you prove that?


For the most part I would call them liars or well deceived by themselves.  But you do have a point, we can't prove that.  Only they know the truth.


----------



## Dr Grump

Avatar4321 said:


> Its called self control you have it. But you choose not to use it.



Why should they? You don't have to have hetrosexual sex, but you CHOOSE to. Gee Avatar, you really should control yourself...



Avatar4321 said:


> And it makes you utterly miserable. But rather than conclude that you are miserable from your actions, you accuse others for making you miserable.



Really? Homos are miserable about their lifestyle? Got stats to back this up? And when others who aren't of the same sexual persuasion are trying to control their lives, I wouldn't call them miserable, more like pissed off...and why wouldn't they be?




Avatar4321 said:


> I've listened to gay activists and some of them are very clear that the reason they are pushing this is to make everyone as miserable as they are. You are miserable because you are making bad choices. So stop making bad choices and you wont be miserable.



One again, prove your assertion, or you are just blowing hot air. They are not trying to make anybody miserable from what I've seen. Wanting certain rights is not being miserable, it is wanting certain rights. Nothing more, nothing less. The only things the majority want (not the militant minority) is the same rights as you and I. 



Avatar4321 said:


> I am just tired of people who refuse to take responsibility for themselves. I am tired of all the excuses.



In what way are they not taking responsibility for themselves? Excuses for what? Sticking up for themselves and not wanting to live in your bigotted world? Maybe they are sick of your bigotted excuses - religious or otherwise - in trying to marginalise them because of your lack of tolerance.



Avatar4321 said:


> I am tired of people whining about how they cant do anything about it. You choose your actions. Take responsibility for them. Stop trying to excuse them and avoiding the consequences of your bad mistakes. .



What are the consequences other than bigots trying to tell them how to lead their lives? 



Avatar4321 said:


> And stop trying to force others to accept responsibility for your bad mistakes too. Because its society that suffers because of your mistakes.



How is society suffering from anything homos do? I don't. I don't know anybody who does. No homo has forced me to to reponsibility for anything they have ever done. Care to expand on your vacuous statement?




Avatar4321 said:


> The effects might not be immediately but within a generation or two we will see the horrible effects of it.



Considering homosexuality has been around for thousands of years, your argument is non-existant. Just more hot air and rhetoric.



Avatar4321 said:


> You cant fool around carelessly with the powers that create life without getting burnt and burning everything around you.



Thanks for your _*opinion*_....but I'll stick with facts.


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> For the most part I would call them liars or well deceived by themselves.  But you do have a point, we can't prove that.  Only they know the truth.



You've been lying to yourself for so long kag that you wouldn't know the truth if it kicked you in the ass. You're sick and you can't admit that, so how in the hell would you know when someone's cured?

Think with your brain, not with your dick.


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> You've been lying to yourself for so long kag that you wouldn't know the truth if it kicked you in the ass. You're sick and you can't admit that, so how in the hell would you know when someone's cured?
> 
> Think with your brain, not with your dick.


What an excellent point you make!  I can see it...wait...no...it's as clear as a window in a shit storm.

I believe I'm quite capable of deciphering truth from lies.  I said we can't know if these people are lying or not, they know and we don't.  We do know they CLAIM they're cured.  Unless we were to implement a camera into their home and bug their phones and keep them under close surveilence without their knowledge, we don't know.


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> What an excellent point you make!  I can see it...wait...no...it's as clear as a window in a shit storm.
> 
> I believe I'm quite capable of deciphering truth from lies.  I said we can't know if these people are lying or not, they know and we don't.  We do know they CLAIM they're cured.  Unless we were to implement a camera into their home and bug their phones and keep them under close surveilence without their knowledge, we don't know.



You're ignorant kag. Haven't you ever heard the old adage, "actions speak louder than words"? Well if someone isn't engaging in homosexual sex anymore, then I'd say they're were cured.

You just have a hard time comprehending that someone CAN be cured, because that would mean that YOU wouldn't have a good excuse anymore to stay a faggot. Help is there, you just don't want it.


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> You're ignorant kag. Haven't you ever heard the old adage, "actions speak louder than words"? Well if someone isn't engaging in homosexual sex anymore, then I'd say they're were cured.
> 
> You just have a hard time comprehending that someone CAN be cured, because that would mean that YOU wouldn't have a good excuse anymore to stay a faggot. Help is there, you just don't want it.


You make me laugh, you know that?  You really do.  You're so serious and so intent on all this bullshit to the point you've deluded yourself into believing it and believing that you're right when you know deep down inside you're not.

Did some of that last part sound familiar?  It's the same bullshit you give me.  Here's what I comprehend: there's a people around who claim to have been "cured" of homosexuality, though they are lying or deceived.  "Help" is around, but it's not reliable.


----------



## Nienna

Kagom said:


> You make me laugh, you know that?  You really do.  You're so serious and so intent on all this bullshit to the point you've deluded yourself into believing it and believing that you're right when you know deep down inside you're not.
> 
> Did some of that last part sound familiar?  It's the same bullshit you give me.  Here's what I comprehend: there's a people around who claim to have been "cured" of homosexuality, though they are lying or deceived.  "Help" is around, but it's not reliable.



But, if they claim to be cured, then how does anyone know for sure they aren't? If they claim to be happier away from homosexuality, how can anyone say they aren't? The same arguments pro-homosexual activists use to persuade others to embrace homosexuality can be used here, too. If the ultimate judge of right & wrong is the individual, how can anyone then say that ANYTHING is objectively wrong? Maybe it's just "wrong for him."


----------



## Kagom

Nienna said:


> But, if they claim to be cured, then how does anyone know for sure they aren't? If they claim to be happier away from homosexuality, how can anyone say they aren't? The same arguments pro-homosexual activists use to persuade others to embrace homosexuality can be used here, too. If the ultimate judge of right & wrong is the individual, how can anyone then say that ANYTHING is objectively wrong? Maybe it's just "wrong for him."


I've already said we can't know for sure, but I'm more than willing to bet they're lying or deluded.


----------



## cslaughlin13

yeah, I have to agree Kagom bc one of my friends is catholic and he is gay.  He tells me that he is "becoming" staight, the more i see him, the more bullshit i feel like I am being fed.  I feel sorry for him because he feels that he has to change and if it works out for him, kudos to him, but i feel that he is lying to himself.


----------



## Kagom

cslaughlin13 said:


> yeah, I have to agree Kagom bc one of my friends is catholic and he is gay.  He tells me that he is "becoming" staight, the more i see him, the more bullshit i feel like I am being fed.  I feel sorry for him because he feels that he has to change and if it works out for him, kudos to him, but i feel that he is lying to himself.


I've also had exes that were put through this "therapy" crap against their wills.  They became suicidal because of it and many would advise parents not to put their kids through it.


----------



## archangel

Kagom said:


> I've also had exes that were put through this "therapy" crap against their wills.  They became suicidal because of it and many would advise parents not to put their kids through it.




we part ways of acceptance...I advised you on another thread that you started "WTF" (how fitting eh)...well son I must now be blunt...If your parents did their job...well you would not be 'playing with your pee pee in the tee pee'! I am sorry to break this to you but homosexual behavior is nothing more than sexual immaturity...or if you prefer the term,a fetish! You were programmed... like it or not... and no matter how you prefer to deny it, it is a fact of life...sexual behavior is learned...the desire to mate is natural...you learn how to act on it!


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> You make me laugh, you know that?  You really do.  You're so serious and so intent on all this bullshit to the point you've deluded yourself into believing it and believing that you're right when you know deep down inside you're not.
> 
> Did some of that last part sound familiar?  It's the same bullshit you give me.  Here's what I comprehend: there's a people around who claim to have been "cured" of homosexuality, though they are lying or deceived.  "Help" is around, but it's not reliable.



Thing is though, I'm not the one hop scotching around sucking other men's dicks and fucking them up the ass... YOU are. So which one of us should be more entrusted to decifer the truth?

You're sick in the head already. I'm not. You're perverted beyond help. I don't need help. You're attracted sexually to the same sex. I'm not. You're chances of dying young because of your deviant, sick, behavior is three times more likely than me. Shall I go on?

The point is, as a practicing queer, why should ANYONE take your word for ANYTHING when you're sense of what's right and wrong are SO fucking WARPED?


----------



## 007

Subject: I Was A Homosexual - I Know It's A Mental Sickness!

From: Prophet Yahweh 
Date: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:58 pm 
 prophetyahweh 
Offline 
Send Email 

Dear List,

Many of you are upset because I am against homosexuality.

You don't like me calling it a self induced form of mental illness.

You despise me because I say that homosexuality is the result of the Satanic possession, and manipulation of a person's thought processes, that tricks a person into thinking that there's nothing wrong with:

1. a man kissing all over another man as if he is the most beautiful woman he has ever seen in his life

This is self induced mental illness through Satanic possession.

2. a man lying in bed and giving foreplay to another man to make him hot as if he's a woman

This is self induced mental illness through Satanic possession.

3. a man performing oral sex on another man until the other man's sperm is released in his mouth, and most of the time it's swallowed by that man

This is self induced mental illness through Satanic possession.

4. a man anally penetrating another man through the channels that his bowels pass as if it's a woman's vagina

This is self induced mental illness through Satanic possession.

5. a man releasing his sperm up into another man's butt hole as if he can get the other man pregnant by doing so

This is self induced mental illness through Satanic possession.

What else can it be?

If you think what I just said is not mental illness, then you need to see a psychiatrist!

You may feel offended, but this is a small picture of what homosexuality is really all about.

The homosexual world is a very sick and demented world.

It's very foundation, from the first homosexual act ever, until now, is an act of allegiance to the Devil that's committed without most participants realizing that it is so.

People talk about being gay and hear about being gay, but most of them never really think about what fags do when having sex.

It's amazing how, like a magical spell, the masses have been hypnotized not to say anything about homosexuality, or even think about how homosexuals have sex with each other.

Neither do they think about how sick the nasty acts are that they commit with one another.

The masses have been lured into never speaking against the sickness of homosexuality to such a degree, that many people won't ever tell their children that it's wrong with out feeling guilty, and thinking they have done something wrong!

As for me, I know it is as sick as I have described for a fact!

The way I know, is that I use to be a homosexual.

And, it is the knowledge and power of YAHWEH that brought me out of that sick, deranged, and mentally ill world.

Now, you may wonder why I would admit this to several thousand people.

The answer is so that many people, who allowed the devil to deceive them, sexually, like he did me, will be motivated to completely and totally abandon the horrible homosexual world, when they see how YAHWEH saved me from that sick and demented lifestyle.

So all of you shut up when I talk against deranged homosexuals because I was one of them.

And, I have the right to speak against homosexuality for the evil that it is and to proclaim, to the world, that it is wrong, sinful, death to the soul!

All praises be to YAHWEH, and blessed be His holy name foreverore.

No Longer A Homosexual Before YAHWEH,

Prophet Yahweh
Seer of Yahweh

....................................
the end 

http://www.bibleufo.com/py3.htm


----------



## KarlMarx

I haven't really read this thread very thoroughly, but I have to wonder about why people object to the possibility that gays can change their orientation. After all, we often hear about people who, after having been married and living a straight life, suddenly "become" gay. And when that happens, it's generally accepted as not being unusual.

But if a person who has been gay claims they're now "batting for our team", so to speak, there are a lot of objections. "He's not being honest", "he must be a bisexual", etc etc etc. Why sexual orientation viewed as a one way street? It's like once you're gay, you're there to stay! (Bad rhyme, I'll admit).

Keep in mind, that up until 1968 or so, homosexuality was considered a mental illness and there was in fact a entry in the DSM manual for it (the DSM manual, is the manual that psychiatrists and psychologists use to diagnose mental disorders, e.g. depression). It has now been almost 40 years since the APA (American Psych Association) decided to take homosexuality out of the DSM. Any talk about therapies to change a person's orientation is treated as quackery, and any professional that talks about doing such a thing risks losing their license to practice. But, you know, a lot has changed since 1968.

At one time, mental disorders such as depression, manic-depression and so forth were not treatable. Or if they were, the medications or the therapies were largely ineffective. Alcoholism and drug abuse were once treated by throwing people into "inebriate asylums", no therapies existed for the treatment of those disorders. Now, people who have alcohol and substance abuse problems are regularly treated with a good measure of success.

So, why isn't it possible that science may someday find a cure for homosexuality? Why not keep an open mind to the possibility?

After all, it's been shown in a lot of cases, that homosexuals are more likely to abuse drugs, alcohol, commit suicide and so forth. So, if a group of people could benefit from therapies that treat this condition, isn't it an act of cruelty to oppose it?

Yes, I think it is.

I'm not going to say that homosexuality is 100% treatable in every case. Nor am I going to say that it is completely a choice in every case. I realize that people are gay for various reasons and that in most cases, it isn't a conscious decision. But I do think that people can, in at least some cases, change their orientation, given the right therapies (which may not yet exist). The problem is though, until science opens itself up to the possibility that such therapies are possible, there is no hope for finding out if a cure is possible or not.

And to those who think I'm being a nut case or a crazy person, consider this. At one time, Louis Pasteur was considered a nut, yet because of him we have vaccines. At one time, Copernicus and Galileo were considered crack pots, yet because of them we now have modern day astronomy.


----------



## cslaughlin13

pale, no one takes your word for anything, and is your sense of "right" treating other people different than you like crap and insulting them?  You seem very insecure about homosexuals.  I assume that you are probably christian, so why don't you hate jews, there are more of them than homosexuals and they have more power.  Why don't you hate gluttons, over 61% of people in the US are overweight and 31% are obese, thats way more people than homosexuals.  Or why don't you seem to attack all muslims, or buddhists, or hinduist, etc.  you say that you have a sense of right and wrong yet you continously attack a group of people that have done nothing to you.
You are the warped one with the amount of hatred you have towards others with different points of view.


----------



## KarlMarx

cslaughlin13 said:


> pale, no one takes your word for anything, and is your sense of "right" treating other people different than you like crap and insulting them?  You seem very insecure about homosexuals.  I assume that you are probably christian, so why don't you hate jews, there are more of them than homosexuals and they have more power.  Why don't you hate gluttons, over 61% of people in the US are overweight and 31% are obese, thats way more people than homosexuals.  Or why don't you seem to attack all muslims, or buddhists, or hinduist, etc.  you say that you have a sense of right and wrong yet you continously attack a group of people that have done nothing to you.
> You are the warped one with the amount of hatred you have towards others with different points of view.


Christians don't, as a rule, hate Jews. In fact, hatred is not a Christian value. I consider myself Christian and I have a great fondness for the Jews and their culture.

Many Christians object to the homosexual lifestyle, because the Bible teaches that it is wrong. It is not because of hatred of them. 

Many Christians also object to drinking to excess and drug abuse. That isn't because we hate drunks and drug addicts.

I don't know where you are getting your information about Christians from, but it's definitely not a reliable one.


----------



## cslaughlin13

karl marx,
Even if homosexuality could be cured, just pretend in the future that they had a cure that had a 100% chance of effectiveness, I doubt that many homosexuals would care to be cured.  I know that I wouldn't, but that is because I accepted myself.  It goes for the same way as depression, alcoholism, drug abuse etc., in the the fact that you can't force someone to change if they don't want to.  the only way to make an alcoholic change is if they view alcoholism as a severe problem that negatively affects their life, same way with depression.  People are not going to seek help if they don't want to.  One of my friends is manic depressive (or bipolar), she won't get help, even after multiple times of me and her friends telling her because she does not believe that it affects her life in a negative way.  in fact, according to her, she doesn't even believe hat there is something wrong with her.
The point is that you can't change someon if they don't want to change, that is the reason why when parents force their kids to go to the ex-gay camps, it usually does not work, because the kids do not care to change.


----------



## cslaughlin13

marx, that was not supposed to flame christians, I have nothing against them, i am saying that if pale holds christian values, like thinking that gluttony is wrong, judaism is not the right religion, etc., then why does he not hate them, they are much more numerous and more power ful than homosexuals are.


----------



## KarlMarx

cslaughlin13 said:


> karl marx,
> Even if homosexuality could be cured, just pretend in the future that they had a cure that had a 100% chance of effectiveness, I doubt that many homosexuals would care to be cured.  I know that I wouldn't, but that is because I accepted myself.  It goes for the same way as depression, alcoholism, drug abuse etc., in the the fact that you can't force someone to change if they don't want to.  the only way to make an alcoholic change is if they view alcoholism as a severe problem that negatively affects their life, same way with depression.  People are not going to seek help if they don't want to.  One of my friends is manic depressive (or bipolar), she won't get help, even after multiple times of me and her friends telling her because she does not believe that it affects her life in a negative way.  in fact, according to her, she doesn't even believe hat there is something wrong with her.
> The point is that you can't change someon if they don't want to change, that is the reason why when parents force their kids to go to the ex-gay camps, it usually does not work, because the kids do not care to change.


That is true, you can't make people change if they don't want to. In your hypothetical example homosexuality would then be a choice, just like alcoholism becomes a choice for the person who refuses treatment.

"Accepting yourself" may mean that you've rejected the possibility that change is possible or that you've given up on entertaining the possibility. I suppose an alcoholic could claim that he or she has accepted themself as an alcoholic and that his identity is founded on the disorder.

I do believe that, however, many would want to get out of the homosexual lifestyle if an effective cure should ever be developed. However, until the psychiatric community opens its mind to the possibility, there won't be a cure, or if one exists even now, it will be ridiculed as the stuff of quackery.

If a cure for homosexuality were to ever become reality, I don't believe it would be forced on gays. However, it would be a good thing that people would have a way out of that lifestyle.


----------



## KarlMarx

cslaughlin13 said:


> marx, that was not supposed to flame christians, I have nothing against them, i am saying that if pale holds christian values, like thinking that gluttony is wrong, judaism is not the right religion, etc., then why does he not hate them, they are much more numerous and more power ful than homosexuals are.


I believe that Jews number about 2% of the population, gays on the other hand, are about 3-5 percent of the population. The Jews are actually a race of people. A person is considered Jewish if their mother is Jewish. To say that Jews are more powerful than gays is pretty specious. Jews are politically organized, to an extent, just like gays are. Jews have a defamation league, just like gays do. Jews have been oppressed, just like gays. But to say that Jews are somehow have an "in" to the political process over gays is laughable, at best.


----------



## cslaughlin13

Now correct me if i am wrong, but you seem to be under the idea that homosexuality is wrong.  That is you opinion and i am not going to try to change that, but to many people, they have nothing against homosexuality so one reason for the apa not to do that is because it is showing bias.  Generally, the people most oppossed to homosexuals are christians, so the APA would probably be seen as trying to be in favor of christians or republicans if they tried to cure homosexuality.  The thing is that the APA does not consider it to be a disease or consider it to be bad.  Why should they try to find a cure for a non-existent problem.  Now I do agree with you in the fact that many people would like to get out because, knowing from first-hand experience, it is tough at first because so many people look at being homosexual as wrong.
Then there comes to the part or mental attraction.  If homosexuality was only a physical attraction, it would be easier to get over, but I, for example, am not mentally attracted to women.  To me, I feel that most of them are annoying and moody.  Of course I am biased, but that is how I feel about them.  Accepting oneself means that they don't care to change and they could not see themselves as being straight.


----------



## Kagom

archangel said:


> we part ways of acceptance...I advised you on another thread that you started "WTF" (how fitting eh)...well son I must now be blunt...If your parents did their job...well you would not be 'playing with your pee pee in the tee pee'! I am sorry to break this to you but homosexual behavior is nothing more than sexual immaturity...or if you prefer the term,a fetish! You were programmed... like it or not... and no matter how you prefer to deny it, it is a fact of life...sexual behavior is learned...the desire to mate is natural...you learn how to act on it!


Wow, that's all I have to say.  My parents raised me right, Arch.  I can't help being who I am.  That's all I have to say.  It's not a choice and it's not something I was "programmed" into being.


----------



## cslaughlin13

thank you for correcting me, I thought that jewish people had a greater population but after looking at national statistics, you are right, my bad.


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> Thing is though, I'm not the one hop scotching around sucking other men's dicks and fucking them up the ass... YOU are. So which one of us should be more entrusted to decifer the truth?
> 
> You're sick in the head already. I'm not. You're perverted beyond help. I don't need help. You're attracted sexually to the same sex. I'm not. You're chances of dying young because of your deviant, sick, behavior is three times more likely than me. Shall I go on?
> 
> The point is, as a practicing queer, why should ANYONE take your word for ANYTHING when you're sense of what's right and wrong are SO fucking WARPED?


Again: Blah blah blah.  That's all I'm reading and seeing with your bullshit.  Your ex-gay thing was laughable too.  SATANIC POSSESSION, RAWR!  I've really just gotten to the point where I read what you've said and it just ends up being put on a backburner.  I know you believe what you say and that's fine and dandy.  But you're more full of it than those you detest.


----------



## Nuc

cslaughlin13 said:


> Then there comes to the part or mental attraction.  If homosexuality was only a physical attraction, it would be easier to get over, but I, for example, am not mentally attracted to women.  To me, I feel that most of them are annoying and moody.



The homophobes on this board are also annoying and moody. You never know who's behind the keyboard, maybe they are actually women posing as machos.


----------



## Said1

Nuc said:


> The homophobes on this board are also annoying and moody. You never know who's behind the keyboard, maybe they are actually women posing as machos.



 How fitting.


----------



## 007

cslaughlin13 said:


> pale, no one takes your word for anything, and is your sense of "right" treating other people different than you like crap and insulting them?  You seem very insecure about homosexuals.  I assume that you are probably christian, so why don't you hate jews, there are more of them than homosexuals and they have more power.  Why don't you hate gluttons, over 61% of people in the US are overweight and 31% are obese, thats way more people than homosexuals.  Or why don't you seem to attack all muslims, or buddhists, or hinduist, etc.  you say that you have a sense of right and wrong yet you continously attack a group of people that have done nothing to you.
> You are the warped one with the amount of hatred you have towards others with different points of view.



"No one takes my word for anything"? I beg to differ. My reputation points on this board indicate differently.

In any case, how many times do I have to tell you WHY I dislike queers? If I go through it again now, it will THREE TIMES to you ALONE! 

I think what your problem is, along with your mental illness, is that you can't accept the fact that there is someone here that finds you and what you do disgusting, and I'm TELLING you that. You fags have been so militant in the past with badgering people that express their dislike of you, that you've come to think that people SHOULDN'T. Well get used to it if you're going to stay here.


----------



## Nuc

OK Pale, we know you hate "fags". But do you always have to be so hateful about it? 

Did something happen to you that makes you take it so personally like being raped by a teacher or priest? That would make sense. Otherwise maybe you should try having a bit more of a sense of humor about it. Just a suggestion.


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> Again: Blah blah blah.  That's all I'm reading and seeing with your bullshit.  Your ex-gay thing was laughable too.  SATANIC POSSESSION, RAWR!  I've really just gotten to the point where I read what you've said and it just ends up being put on a backburner.  I know you believe what you say and that's fine and dandy.  But you're more full of it than those you detest.



That's right little sick one, just blow off what I have to say, because it comes from the VAST MAJORITY of people. Not just Americans, but in the WORLD!

However, I do believe you know shit when you see it, seeing as you've had your dick shoved in enough butt holes packing shit.


----------



## 007

cslaughlin13 said:


> Now correct me if i am wrong, but you seem to be under the idea that homosexuality is wrong.  That is you opinion and i am not going to try to change that, but to many people, they have nothing against homosexuality so one reason for the apa not to do that is because it is showing bias.  Generally, the people most oppossed to homosexuals are christians, so the APA would probably be seen as trying to be in favor of christians or republicans if they tried to cure homosexuality.  The thing is that the APA does not consider it to be a disease or consider it to be bad.  Why should they try to find a cure for a non-existent problem.  Now I do agree with you in the fact that many people would like to get out because, knowing from first-hand experience, it is tough at first because so many people look at being homosexual as wrong.
> Then there comes to the part or mental attraction.  If homosexuality was only a physical attraction, it would be easier to get over, but I, for example, am not mentally attracted to women.  To me, I feel that most of them are annoying and moody.  Of course I am biased, but that is how I feel about them.  Accepting oneself means that they don't care to change and they could not see themselves as being straight.



*APA President Supports Therapy Treating Unwanted Homosexual Tendencies*

By Gudrun Schultz

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana, August 29, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) President of the American Psychological Association, Dr. Gerald P. Koocher, broke with the APAs long-held stance against homosexual re-orientation therapy earlier this month, saying the organization would support psychological therapy for those experiencing unwanted homosexual attractions, the National Association for the Therapy and Treatment of Homosexuality (NARTH) reported.

Speaking with NARTH President Joseph Nicolosi at the APAs annual convention in New Orleans, Dr. Koocher stated, APA has no conflict with psychologists who help those distressed by unwanted homosexual attraction. Dr. Koocher emphasized that so long as patient autonomy and choice were respected, the APAs Code of Ethics would certainly encompass psychological treatment of those who wish to be free of homosexual attraction.

The APA has long been hostile toward the work of NARTH, saying attempts to alter the sexual inclinations of homosexual or lesbian persons amount to discrimination against homosexuality. 

This is a historic step for client autonomy and self-determination, said NARTH psychologist Dr. Dean Byrd in the organizations report. Dr. Koochers statements were clear and unambiguous in support of the rights of those who are distressed by their unwanted homosexual attraction. In fact, the message conveyed by Dr. Koocher today is identical to NARTHs mission statement. I hope that APA and NARTH can now begin a fruitful dialogue about this very important issue.

Despite the groundbreaking statement by the APAs president, there appears to be a lack of consensus among members on the organizations official position on homosexual reversal therapy.  Cybercast News Service reported today on a statement by an APA spokesperson who said the scientific validity of reparative therapy for homosexuals is unfounded and insupportable.

The APAs concern about the positions espoused by NARTH and so-called conversion therapy is that they are not supported by the science, APA Public Affairs Manager Pamela Willenz wrote in response to questioning by CNS. There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed.

Clinton Anderson, director of the APA Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Concerns Office, told CNS there is no evidence that reparative therapies work, and said they may in fact cause harm for many people.

That evidence can be easily found, however, in the lives of those who have successfully undergone reparative or conversion therapies, said Alan Chambers, president of Exodus International, to CNS. Exodus International is a coalition of Christian ministries that offer outreach to people with unwanted homosexual attraction. 

If theyve done any kind of study thats proven that reparative therapy [does not work] or that change isnt possible, then theyve obviously not interviewed those of us who have successfully overcome homosexuality.

Chambers participated in a protest at the APA convention by ex-homosexuals and pro-family groups, seeking the APAs recognition of the legitimacy of homosexual therapy. 

The APA removed homosexuality from the list of recognized mental disorders (DSM) in 1973, a decision some suggest was motivated by pressure from homosexual advocacy groups without regard for accurate scientific research. See LifeSiteNews.com coverage: http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020902.html

See CNS News.com coverage:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive...

See previous LifeSiteNews coverage:

Ex-Gays Protest APA Claim that Homosexuality is Irreversible
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/aug/06081607.html

Contact the APA: 
1000 Wilson Boulevard, 
Suite 1825, 
Arlington, Va.  
22209-3901 
phone: 703-907-7300 
email: apa@psych.org 

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/aug/06082905.html


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> That's right little sick one, just blow off what I have to say, because it comes from the VAST MAJORITY of people. Not just Americans, but in the WORLD!
> 
> However, I do believe you know shit when you see it, seeing as you've had your dick shoved in enough butt holes packing shit.


I know being a rude jerk makes you feel better about yourself, but you're not proving anything right now.  What you say comes from people who are afraid of what homosexuality is because they don't really know anything about it or understand it.

Also, I'm submissive, not dominant!  How could you be so rude as to get that wrong?  GOD.

Final note: when did the majority thinking something is right make it right?


----------



## 007

Nuc said:


> OK Pale, we know you hate "fags". But do you always have to be so hateful about it?
> 
> Did something happen to you that makes you take it so personally like being raped by a teacher or priest? That would make sense. Otherwise maybe you should try having a bit more of a sense of humor about it. Just a suggestion.



All I have to do is envision what it is they do to each other, and it turns my stomach in disgust.

And I'm not one to beat around the bush. If I find you disgusting, I'll tell you, and why.

And no, I've never been molested or raped. Had I been, the person that did it would be in their grave right now.


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> I know being a rude jerk makes you feel better about yourself, but you're not proving anything right now.  What you say comes from people who are afraid of what homosexuality is because they don't really know anything about it or understand it.


I'm just exposing what it is you perverts do.



Kagom said:


> Also, I'm submissive, not dominant!  How could you be so rude as to get that wrong?  GOD.


TMI. :talk2: 



Kagom said:


> Final note: when did the majority thinking something is right make it right?


The "majority" is simply with nature. Man with woman. That's the way people were designed and intended. YOU on the other hand, well, you're sick.


----------



## Nienna

So, are we all agreed that ex-gays should be allowed to tell their stories without harrassment? That those who are uncomfortable with their homosexual feelings should be able to seek treatment, should be able to receive encouragement from those who have been through treatment? Are we agreed that information about treatment should not be supressed or ridiculed?


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> I'm just exposing what it is you perverts do.
> 
> 
> TMI. :talk2:
> 
> 
> The "majority" is simply with nature. Man with woman. That's the way people were designed and intended. YOU on the other hand, well, you're sick.


I know you're intelligent enough to get the middle saying was a joke.

As for "exposing" what us perverts do is not your business.  We're still just like any heterosexual couple.  We are capable of loving each other and the such on a physical and emotional level as well as spiritual.

The majority isn't always correct.  Those who want to forcefully change homosexuals aren't good and those who lie about being able to aren't good people either.


----------



## Kagom

Nienna said:


> So, are we all agreed that ex-gays should be allowed to tell their stories without harrassment? That those who are uncomfortable with their homosexual feelings should be able to seek treatment, should be able to receive encouragement from those who have been through treatment? Are we agreed that information about treatment should not be supressed or ridiculed?


I'll agree to it, but I will debate the truth behind the treatment and information.


----------



## Nienna

Kagom said:


> I'll agree to it, but I will debate the truth behind the treatment and information.



Fair enough.


----------



## Kagom

Nienna said:


> Fair enough.


I'm usually willing to negotiate


----------



## Nienna

Kagom said:


> I'm usually willing to negotiate



I'm usually willing to listen with respect.


----------



## Kagom

Nienna said:


> I'm usually willing to listen with respect.


I know you are.  That's why you're my favorite poster here ^^


----------



## Nienna

Kagom said:


> I know you are.  That's why you're my favorite poster here ^^



Thank you! How sweet! (I'm a sucker for sweet talk  )


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> I know you're intelligent enough to get the middle saying was a joke.
> 
> As for "exposing" what us perverts do is not your business.  We're still just like any heterosexual couple.  We are capable of loving each other and the such on a physical and emotional level as well as spiritual.


It damn sure is my business when you people parade that crap down the street flaunting it, or want to take an age old holy institution like marriage and turn it into something filthy.



Kagom said:


> The majority isn't always correct.  Those who want to forcefully change homosexuals aren't good and those who lie about being able to aren't good people either.


Every time you say that, it just shows how incredibly ignorant you are. What you're actually trying to purport is that "YOU ARE SMARTER THAN NATURE", that the grand design of a man is meant to mate with a woman is WRONG, because YOU SAY SO! My GOD man, how fucking stupid to you take people for? NO ONE is buying that load of bullshit!


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> It damn sure is my business when you people parade that crap down the street flaunting it, or want to take an age old holy institution like marriage and turn it into something filthy.
> 
> 
> Every time you say that, it just shows how incredibly ignorant you are. What you're actually trying to purport is that "YOU ARE SMARTER THAN NATURE", that the grand design of a man is meant to mate with a woman is WRONG, because YOU SAY SO! My GOD man, how fucking stupid to you take people for? NO ONE is buying that load of bullshit!


And?  I say there'd be no more need for gay pride parades if marriage was granted.  But I dont' really care for them much like I don't care for other things.  And marriage is malleable.  It's changed over time from the Egyptians to our modern day world now.

No, I'm not.  I'm saying your bullshit researches and crack team of ignorant jerks are wrong.  And no need for name calling, Pale, it makes you look inadaquete.


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> And?  I say there'd be no more need for gay pride parades if marriage was granted.  But I dont' really care for them much like I don't care for other things.  And marriage is malleable.  It's changed over time from the Egyptians to our modern day world now.
> 
> No, I'm not.  I'm saying your bullshit researches and crack team of ignorant jerks are wrong.  And no need for name calling, Pale, it makes you look inadaquete.


I've realized for quite some time now that you are so far gone, you wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face. You relentlessly argue a point that is twisted and sick, as if it had an once of legitimacy. You're tenacity is the ONLY thing about you I respect, even though it's misplaced.


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> I've realized for quite some time now that you are so far gone, you wouldn't know the truth if it slapped you in the face. You relentlessly argue a point that is twisted and sick, as if it had an once of legitimacy. You're tenacity is the ONLY thing about you I respect, even though it's misplaced.


You're such a nice guy.  I'm glad you think I'm far gone at this point.  I've already come to the realization you too are quite far gone yourself.  We just both feel that way about each other.  You argue a point I think is twisted in sick as it is extremely malignant to a person's well-being and I argue a point you think is twisted and sick for what you believe to be the same thing.  We're the same, you and I, despite our differences.

And I respect your determination and how you stay true to yourself.


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> You're such a nice guy.  I'm glad you think I'm far gone at this point.  I've already come to the realization you too are quite far gone yourself.  We just both feel that way about each other.  You argue a point I think is twisted in sick as it is extremely malignant to a person's well-being and I argue a point you think is twisted and sick for what you believe to be the same thing.  We're the same, you and I, despite our differences.
> 
> And I respect your determination and how you stay true to yourself.



And there it is...


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> And there it is...


Sounds a lot like the ravings of a psycho, doesn't it?  Don't you think that's how I feel half the time reading your stuff?


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> Sounds a lot like the ravings of a psycho, doesn't it?  Don't you think that's how I feel half the time reading your stuff?



No. That's the way I feel reading your "stuff"...


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> No. That's the way I feel reading your "stuff"...


Another thing in common!  (dinner time)


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> Another thing in common!  (dinner time)



And I need a ride on the Harley. Listening to you is an excersize in a fight against a warped reality.


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> And I need a ride on the Harley. Listening to you is an excersize in a fight against a warped reality.


Geez, I feel the same way about you.  This is getting too weird for my liking.


----------



## Nuc

Pale Rider said:


> All I have to do is envision what it is they do to each other, and it turns my stomach in disgust.
> 
> And I'm not one to beat around the bush. If I find you disgusting, I'll tell you, and why.
> 
> And no, I've never been molested or raped. Had I been, the person that did it would be in their grave right now.



Yeah, but they basically have oral sex and anal sex and there are plenty of straight people who love both of those things. 

My stomach turns in disgust more from things like war, violence, rape, illiteracy and so on. I don't really care what gays or anybody do in bed. I figure it's none of my business.


----------



## 007

Nuc said:


> Yeah, but they basically have oral sex and anal sex and there are plenty of straight people who love both of those things.
> 
> My stomach turns in disgust more from things like war, violence, rape, illiteracy and so on. I don't really care what gays or anybody do in bed. I figure it's none of my business.



Yes I've had both oral and anal sex, *WITH A WOMAN!!!*

Huge difference skippy, that you so cleverly left out...


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> Geez, I feel the same way about you.  This is getting too weird for my liking.



Just keep in mind that you are the one that's warped.


----------



## Nuc

Pale Rider said:


> Yes I've had both oral and anal sex, *WITH A WOMAN!!!*



TMI to the max!

But this kind of proves a point. There are a lot of people who think oral and anal sex are a "sin" or whatever. Then of course one of the main arguments the homophobes make against gayness is the unhygenic nature of anal sex. Then there is the "sex is for reproduction" crowd. Or the "sex is only between a man and woman in the sacred bonds of marriage" set. They all have persuasive arguments for their positions. 

If you had anal sex with a WOMAN you were not married to you pissed off all of these viewpoints. Yet I don't think you want them butting into your sex life or telling you that you can't do it, or that you are evil and scum because you did it. Or that the fact you did it makes you mentally ill. 

Do you?


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> Just keep in mind that you are the one that's warped.


Nah, that's just an opinion.


----------



## Dr Grump

Pale Rider said:


> Yes I've had anal sex WITH A WOMAN



Any moral high ground you had just flew out the window...


----------



## 007

Dr Grump said:


> Any moral high ground you had just flew out the window...



Bullshit. I've never had any sort of sex whatsoever with a man. Only WOMEN!

I'm only attracked to women, therefore I'm normal.

Faggots on the other hand can NOT make that claim.

You're dismissed idiot.


----------



## Dr Grump

Pale Rider said:


> Bullshit. I've never had any sort of sex whatsoever with a man. Only WOMEN!
> 
> I'm only attracked to women, therefore I'm normal.
> 
> Faggots on the other hand can NOT make that claim.
> 
> You're dismissed idiot.



Is this the same bigotted buffoon who said 
"My "logic" is NATURE, and I'm not the one bucking nature. You are."? 

So nature intended for "perverts" like you to give it to women up the ass? ooookaayyyyyy....


----------



## Nuc

Dr Grump said:


> Is this the same bigotted buffoon who said
> "My "logic" is NATURE, and I'm not the one bucking nature. You are."?
> 
> So nature intended for "perverts" like you to give it to women up the ass? ooookaayyyyyy....



Looks like Pale might be some kind of deviated prevert!


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Guys, obviously everyone thinks that anal sex with a woman is completely normal and not disgusting in the slightest. It doesn't violate nature's intentions at all, and certainly isn't a result of misguided lust. Intergender sodomy is a healthy part of the strategy towards recovering the culture in this country!


----------



## 007

Dr Grump said:


> Is this the same bigotted buffoon who said
> "My "logic" is NATURE, and I'm not the one bucking nature. You are."?
> 
> So nature intended for "perverts" like you to give it to women up the ass? ooookaayyyyyy....



"Biggot"? Do you even know what the word means you slack jawed mouth breather?

If you're going to try and say that sex with a woman is the "same" as sex with a man, YOU are out of your mind.

But it does look as though you've picked up a couple clowns to ride on your circus wagon.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Pale Rider said:


> "Biggot"? Do you even know what the word means you slack jawed mouth breather?
> 
> If you're going to try and say that sex with a woman is the "same" as sex with a man, YOU are out of your mind.
> 
> But it does look as though you've picked up a couple clowns to ride on your circus wagon.


We're not talking about sex. We're talking about sodomy. You've reduced your anti-gay argument to "I don't like it."


----------



## 007

The ClayTaurus said:


> We're not talking about sex. We're talking about sodomy. You've reduced your anti-gay argument to "I don't like it."



Oh... so you've included yourself in with the likes of dr. chump and his croonies. I see. A fitting place for you.

*So you clowns are going to argue that sex with a "woman" is the SAME, as sex with a "man".*

You people are pathetic, grasping at straws, and don't have a leg to stand on.

But go ahead, this ought to be good.


----------



## dmp

I think he's saying if the argument against homosexuality is merely the practice of Anal sex, it's a weak argument.

Frankly, there are MANY more things wrong w/ homosexuality than to key-in on, and continually describing in ronchy terms, the act of anal sex.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Pale Rider said:


> Oh... so you've included yourself in with the likes of dr. chump and his croonies. I see. A fitting place for you.
> 
> *So you clowns are going to argue that sex with a "woman" is the SAME, as sex with a "man".*
> 
> You people are pathetic, grasping at straws, and don't have a leg to stand on.
> 
> But go ahead, this ought to be good.


I could care less who you lump me with.

Tell me: what's the difference between male-female sodomy (or oral sex) and male-male sodomy (or oral sex) besides the fact that male-male sodomy (or oral sex) disgusts you?


----------



## Nuc

*Edited by Admin - WAY over the line *


----------



## Dr Grump

Pale Rider said:


> "Biggot"? Do you even know what the word means you slack jawed mouth breather?
> 
> If you're going to try and say that sex with a woman is the "same" as sex with a man, YOU are out of your mind.
> 
> But it does look as though you've picked up a couple clowns to ride on your circus wagon.



No idea what a "biggot" is. Know what a bigot is tho', Cletus. Hey, don't get all pissy at me that your own words were thrown back at you. Either anal sex is a natural act or it ain't.....


----------



## 007

The ClayTaurus said:


> I could care less who you lump me with.
> 
> Tell me: what's the difference between male-female sodomy (or oral sex) and male-male sodomy (or oral sex) besides the fact that male-male sodomy (or oral sex) disgusts you?



You mean to tell me, that you don't know the difference between a man and a woman, and you need me to explain it to you?

I'm finding it hard to believe you're really that ignorant.


----------



## Nuc

Pale Rider said:


> You mean to tell me, that you don't know the difference between a man and a woman, and you need me to explain it to you?
> 
> I'm finding it hard to believe you're really that ignorant.



Pale, you never answered my question. You bragged about anal and oral sex with a woman. Did this ever happen out of wedlock? When you had anal and oral sex was it for reproduction? Was it unhygienic? 

Is this any of my business? 

No? 

Then why do you want to give your opinion about everybody elses sex life? 

If you did that stuff you have offended huge groups of people, including many Christians. Nevetheless I don't think you want anybody telling you what you may or may not do in bed, or whether or not it is disgusting or perverted. Right? Why can't you extend the same courtesy to others?


----------



## 007

Nuc said:


> Pale, you never answered my question. You bragged about anal and oral sex with a woman. Did this ever happen out of wedlock? When you had anal and oral sex was it for reproduction? Was it unhygienic?
> 
> Is this any of my business?
> 
> No?
> 
> Then why do you want to give your opinion about everybody elses sex life?
> 
> If you did that stuff you have offended huge groups of people, including many Christians. Nevetheless I don't think you want anybody telling you what you may or may not do in bed, or whether or not it is disgusting or perverted. Right? Why can't you extend the same courtesy to others?



There's nothing "sick" about a MAN having sex with a WOMAN. That is the difference, and is always my point of contention. Apparently you three numb skulls don't get it. You need someone to spell it out for you. 

Good lord, grow up.


----------



## Nuc

Pale Rider said:


> There's nothing "sick" about a MAN having sex with a WOMAN. That is the difference, and is always my point of contention. Apparently you three numb skulls don't get it. You need someone to spell it out for you.
> 
> Good lord, grow up.



As a matter of fact there are enormous amounts of people in this world who think that having anal sex with a woman out of wedlock is sick. I don't happen to be one of them but they're all over. But they're not jumping up and down on you because of it because they are affording you the respect you won't give to others.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Pale Rider said:


> You mean to tell me, that you don't know the difference between a man and a woman, and you need me to explain it to you?
> 
> I'm finding it hard to believe you're really that ignorant.


Don't be intentionally obtuse so as to avoid the question. Give me a reason other than "I find it disgusting" or "I find it fucking disgusting" or "fuck those fucking motherfucker faggot fucking shitpacking dick licking fuckwad motherfuckers" that doing a man up the ass is any different than doing a woman up the ass.

You can't.

The only differences you have are that you like women and that you find guys fucking each other disgusting. What other reason do you have?


----------



## 007

Nuc said:


> As a matter of fact there are enormous amounts of people in this world who think that having anal sex with a woman out of wedlock is sick. I don't happen to be one of them but they're all over. But they're not jumping up and down on you because of it because they are affording you the respect you won't give to others.



"They" are jumping up and down because they "think" that they've stumbled upon some item worth beating, when the truth of the matter is they don't.

I don't "respect" queers. Plain and simple. Live with it, or not, I don't care.


----------



## 007

The ClayTaurus said:


> Don't be intentionally obtuse so as to avoid the question. Give me a reason other than "I find it disgusting" or "I find it fucking disgusting" or "fuck those fucking motherfucker faggot fucking shitpacking dick licking fuckwad motherfuckers" that doing a man up the ass is any different than doing a woman up the ass.
> 
> You can't.



You're "question" is utterly rediculous, and I think I'll simply let you revel in your own embarrassment. You're a joke.

I forced an admission out of you one other time when you were beating a dead horse, that you will grab at straws and pull bullshit out of the air just for the sake of an arguement. Well, you're doing it again.

I don't like you clay. I think you're a little smart ass, as I've had quite a few PM's during this little escapade from people saying they think as much as well. I won't put you on ignore, but from now on, I'm not saying shit to you unless you have something worth while to respond to. Not some moronic crap like "please tell me the difference between sex with a man, and sex with a woman". That's pure idiotic.



The ClayTaurus said:


> The only differences you have are that you like women and that you find guys fucking each other disgusting. What other reason do you have?



So "you" see NO DIFFERENCE between having sex with a woman, and having sex with a man, hmmmm, I think I'll leave it at that. You sould like a fag yourself.


----------



## misterblu

Pale Rider said:


> You*r* "question" is utterly r*i*diculous, and I think I'll simply let you revel in your own embarrassment. You're a joke.
> 
> I forced an admission out of you one other time when you were beating a dead horse, that you will grab at straws and pull bullshit out of the air just for the sake of an argu*e*ment. Well, you're doing it again.
> 
> I don't like you *C*lay. I think you're a little smart ass, as I've had quite a few PM*'*s during this little escapade from people saying they think as much as well. I won't put you on ignore, but from now on, I'm not saying shit to you unless you have something *worthwhile* to respond to. Not some moronic crap like "please tell me the difference between sex with a man, and sex with a woman". That's pure idiotic.
> 
> 
> 
> So "you" see NO DIFFERENCE between having sex with a woman, and having sex with a man, hmmmm, I think I'll leave it at that. You sou*n*d like a fag yourself.





I have a hard time believing that anyone would be so dense as to not understand the point Clay and D are making:



dmp said:


> I think he's saying if the argument against homosexuality is merely the practice of Anal sex, it's a weak argument.
> 
> Frankly, there are MANY more things wrong w/ homosexuality than to key-in on, and continually describing in ronchy terms, the act of anal sex.



You need to come up with a better argument.

:gang1:


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Pale Rider said:


> You're "question" is utterly rediculous, and I think I'll simply let you revel in your own embarrassment. You're a joke.


It's not rediculous. You're just being intentionally idiotic.





Pale Rider said:


> I forced an admission out of you one other time when you were beating a dead horse, that you will grab at straws and pull bullshit out of the air just for the sake of an arguement. Well, you're doing it again.


You forced an admission out of me? Really? Where? I'm not grabbing at straws. You've completely disintegrated your entire position on homosexuals and refuse to address it.





Pale Rider said:


> I don't like you clay. I think you're a little smart ass, as I've had quite a few PM's during this little escapade from people saying they think as much as well. I won't put you on ignore, but from now on, I'm not saying shit to you unless you have something worth while to respond to.


I don't care who PM's you Pale. You're the subject of just as many PM's and offboard discussions yourself. I don't expect you much care either. If all these people PM'ing you really had such a problem with me I'd hope they'd be man or woman enough to talk with me about it. If they're not, I don't much care what they say to you.

As for you not responding, it's unfortunate you abandon your positions with such haste. I thought you had more conviction than that.





Pale Rider said:


> Not some moronic crap like "please tell me the difference between sex with a man, and sex with a woman". That's pure idiotic.


Anal/Oral sex. Stop hiding like a bitch under the umbrella of "those are all different forms of sex." We know.





Pale Rider said:


> So "you" see NO DIFFERENCE between having sex with a woman, and having sex with a man, hmmmm, I think I'll leave it at that..


No, retard. You continue to evade the reasons why it's ok to fuck a woman up the ass when it's viewed by many many people as sick, immoral, wrong, disgusting, perverse, unhealthy, and dangerous but it's not ok for you to fuck a man up the ass when it is also viewed by many many people as sick, immoral, wrong, disgusting, perverse, unhealthy, and dangerous. I expect you to continue to avoid answering, at least until you've had enough stall time to try and come up with some reason.





Pale Rider said:


> You sould like a fag yourself.


Oh yes, between the two of us _I'm _the one that sounds like a fag. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.


----------



## Dr Grump

The ClayTaurus said:


> Oh yes, between the two of us _I'm _the one that sounds like a fag. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.



RATFLMAO!!! 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The ClayTaurus again.


----------



## Nuc

Dr Grump said:


> RATFLMAO!!!
> 
> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The ClayTaurus again.



No worries Grump, I gave some.

You know, he never did say if he was on the giving or receiving end of this controversial sex act. Maybe that's why he's being evasive.


----------



## jillian

Dr Grump said:


> RATFLMAO!!!
> 
> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The ClayTaurus again.



Gotcha covered!


----------



## Dr Grump

Nuc said:


> No worries Grump, I gave some.
> 
> You know, he never did say if he was on the giving or receiving end of this controversial sex act. Maybe that's why he's being evasive.




I doubt he is on the receiving end, but it shoots his "it's against nature" argument to shit...


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Nuc said:


> No worries Grump, I gave some.
> 
> You know, he never did say if he was on the giving or receiving end of this controversial sex act. Maybe that's why he's being evasive.


I guess that would still count as sex between a man and a woman. That makes it ok. That makes it normal.


----------



## Abbey Normal

I don't know when I have been happier to see a thread _without _pics.


----------



## 007

To chump, jill bitch, clay crotch, and blu balls... you people are the lowest of the low. Were you all the cool little gang in grade school that were only tough in a crowd. I'd face off with any one of you pussies and I'd beat the livin' dog shit out of you. You're all a pathetic bunch of losers. 

For ALL of you to contend that there's NO DIFFERENCE between man and woman sex, and man on man sex, what fucking PLANET are you people from? Unbelievable.

So since you all see no difference, clay, you can hook up with chump and have a hot roll in the hay with him. You know, since there's no difference between you having sex with him, or you having sex with a WOMAN. *I guess you wouldn't be a fag then clay, you're a BI-SEXUAL. Yeah, I've been missing that all along. YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF FUCKING BI's!!!*

Sick mother fuckers. Well I don't feel too bad. You people are the bottom feeders on this board anyway. I could care less what you idiots think or do. Makes absolutely zero difference to me. 

Have a nice day shit stains...


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> To chump, jill bitch, clay crotch, and blu balls... you people are the lowest of the low. Were you all the cool little gang in grade school that were only tough in a crowd. I'd face off with any one of you pussies and I'd beat the livin' dog shit out of you. You're all a pathetic bunch of losers.
> 
> For ALL of you to contend that there's NO DIFFERENCE between man and woman sex, and man on man sex, what fucking PLANET are you people from? Unbelievable.
> 
> So since you all see no difference, clay, you can hook up with chump and have a hot roll in the hay with him. You know, since there's no difference between you having sex with him, or you having sex with a WOMAN. *I guess you wouldn't be a fag then clay, you're a BI-SEXUAL. Yeah, I've been missing that all along. YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF FUCKING BI's!!!*
> 
> Sick mother fuckers. Well I don't feel too bad. You people are the bottom feeders on this board anyway. I could care less what you idiots think or do. Makes absolutely zero difference to me.
> 
> Have a nice day shit stains...


Pale, just calm down man.  I know you're feeling threatened and annoyed right now, but all they want to know why is there a double-standard to gay men having anal sex and you and a woman having anal sex.  Just chill and give an answer, you can do it.


----------



## Gunny

Kagom said:


> Pale, just calm down man.  I know you're feeling threatened and annoyed right now, but all they want to know why is there a double-standard to gay men having anal sex and you and a woman having anal sex.  Just chill and give an answer, you can do it.



The old "threatened and annoyed" cliche, eh?  Guess it never crosses y'all's minds that you're just disgusting, and nothing more.  

Anatomy 101:  The anus is an EXIT, not an entrance.  Neither a man's nor a woman's ass was designed to have someone's tool in it.


----------



## Kagom

GunnyL said:


> The old "threatened and annoyed" cliche, eh?  Guess it never crosses y'all's minds that you're just disgusting, and nothing more.
> 
> Anatomy 101:  The anus is an EXIT, not an entrance.  Neither a man's nor a woman's ass was designed to have someone's tool in it.


Now now, GL, I'm asking Pale to just give his answer as to why he looks the other way when it's a man and a woman having anal sex but thinks it's disgusting when it's two men.


----------



## Gunny

Kagom said:


> Now now, GL, I'm asking Pale to just give his answer as to why he looks the other way when it's a man and a woman having anal sex but thinks it's disgusting when it's two men.



1.  You put it on the board, it's fair game.

2.  Could you please refer me to where PR has said anal sex between a man and woman is okay?  

Being all that as it may, man-woman anal sex is STILL considered heterosexual while man-man anal sex is considered queer and abnormal.


----------



## Kagom

GunnyL said:


> 1.  You put it on the board, it's fair game.
> 
> 2.  Could you please refer me to where PR has said anal sex between a man and woman is okay?
> 
> Being all that as it may, man-woman anal sex is STILL considered heterosexual while man-man anal sex is considered queer and abnormal.


I say he doesn't condemn it because he admitted to having done it.

No one is saying anything about the orientation, but whether one's wrong while the other isn't.

And to fit in: you can find it yourself!  It's around here somewhere.


----------



## Gunny

Kagom said:


> I say he doesn't condemn it because he admitted to having done it.
> 
> No one is saying anything about the orientation, but whether one's wrong while the other isn't.
> 
> And to fit in: you can find it yourself!  It's around here somewhere.



I told you why one is considered wrong and the other is not.

You're trying to fit in with the lefties?


----------



## Kagom

GunnyL said:


> I told you why one is considered wrong and the other is not.
> 
> You're trying to fit in with the lefties?


Okay, so it's a double-standard, right?  Because it's between a man and a woman, anal sex is okay.  Right, that makes as much sense as me becoming a feminist vegan.

No, not at all.  If I wanted to fit in with them, I'd post shit from Democratic Underground or extremely leftist sites.  You only get one more guess with whom I'm trying to fit in with!


----------



## 007

Kagom said:


> Okay, so it's a double-standard, right?  Because it's between a man and a woman, anal sex is okay.  Right, that makes as much sense as me becoming a feminist vegan.
> 
> No, not at all.  If I wanted to fit in with them, I'd post shit from Democratic Underground or extremely leftist sites.  You only get one more guess with whom I'm trying to fit in with!



Yes, that's it kag, plain and simple. Sex with a woman is "sex with a WOMAN". It doesn't matter WHAT you're doing, you're still doing it with a WOMAN. If you people can't see that, or don't UNDERSTAND that, then it's because YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO. The difference is as plain as the nose on your face.

Here ya go kag, if there is NO DIFFERENCE between you having anal sex with a man, and you having anal sex with a WOMAN, THEN WHY DON'T YOU HAVE ANAL SEX WITH A WOMAN???!!!

Now weasel your way out of that one...


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Pale Rider said:


> To chump, jill bitch, clay crotch, and blu balls... you people are the lowest of the low. Were you all the cool little gang in grade school that were only tough in a crowd. I'd face off with any one of you pussies and I'd beat the livin' dog shit out of you. You're all a pathetic bunch of losers.
> 
> For ALL of you to contend that there's NO DIFFERENCE between man and woman sex, and man on man sex, what fucking PLANET are you people from? Unbelievable.
> 
> So since you all see no difference, clay, you can hook up with chump and have a hot roll in the hay with him. You know, since there's no difference between you having sex with him, or you having sex with a WOMAN. *I guess you wouldn't be a fag then clay, you're a BI-SEXUAL. Yeah, I've been missing that all along. YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF FUCKING BI's!!!*
> 
> Sick mother fuckers. Well I don't feel too bad. You people are the bottom feeders on this board anyway. I could care less what you idiots think or do. Makes absolutely zero difference to me.
> 
> Have a nice day shit stains...



Did you forget to take your medication?


----------



## Dr Grump

Pale Rider said:


> I'd face off with any one of you pussies and I'd beat the livin' dog shit out of you.



RATFLMAO...sure you would...LOL...



Pale Rider said:


> For ALL of you to contend that there's NO DIFFERENCE between man and woman sex, and man on man sex, what fucking PLANET are you people from? Unbelievable



There is a difference between the two re sex. However, giving it to somebody up the poo shoot is giving it to them up the poo shoot. You said such an act was unnatural, yet here you are admitting it. By your own definition you're a pervert...go figure!



Pale Rider said:


> Sick mother fuckers. Well I don't feel too bad. You people are the bottom feeders on this board anyway.



Wanna bet. Seems like you are....



Pale Rider said:


> I could care less what you idiots think or do. Makes absolutely zero difference to me.



Is that why you spent your own time typing out the above offal....Course you don't give a shit. Hey Transparent "Rider", giz a kiss....:bj2:


----------



## Dr Grump

GunnyL said:


> Could you please refer me to where PR has said anal sex between a man and woman is okay?



You really should read the whole thread, or at least do your homework..



GunnyL said:


> Being all that as it may, man-woman anal sex is STILL considered heterosexual while man-man anal sex is considered queer and abnormal.



It's not about the gender, it's about the act. Pale said anal sex was against nature. Care to tell me what is so natural about having anal sex with a woman is?


----------



## manu1959

Dr Grump said:


> You really should read the whole thread, or at least do your homework..
> 
> It's not about the gender, it's about the act. Pale said anal sex was against nature. Care to tell me what is so natural about having anal sex with a woman is?



link me up to pale's statement thar anal sex between a man and a woman is ok


----------



## manu1959

The ClayTaurus said:


> Don't be intentionally obtuse so as to avoid the question. Give me a reason other than "I find it disgusting" or "I find it fucking disgusting" or "fuck those fucking motherfucker faggot fucking shitpacking dick licking fuckwad motherfuckers" that doing a man up the ass is any different than doing a woman up the ass.
> 
> You can't.
> 
> The only differences you have are that you like women and that you find guys fucking each other disgusting. What other reason do you have?



if you do a woman in the ass you don't have to give her a wrap around


----------



## MissileMan

manu1959 said:


> if you do a woman in the ass you don't have to give her a wrap around



Says who?


----------



## 007

manu1959 said:


> if you do a woman in the ass you don't have to give her a wrap around



Evidently manu, the bottom feeder crowd see's no difference at all between a man having sex with a man, or man having sex with a woman. To them, it's the same thing.

Funny thing is though, I'd bet the idiots like chump, nuc, mister blu and clay would call themselves heterosexual, all the while purporting there's no difference between two men having sex, or a man having sex with a woman. So, they're either bi or liars. Take your pick. I'd welcome them to "prove" their point. They should go out and kiss their best man friend on the lips. There shouldn't be anything wrong with that should there? Since in their eye's there's no difference, they shouldn't have any problem doing that.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Pale Rider said:


> To chump, jill bitch, clay crotch, and blu balls... you people are the lowest of the low. Were you all the cool little gang in grade school that were only tough in a crowd. I'd face off with any one of you pussies and I'd beat the livin' dog shit out of you. You're all a pathetic bunch of losers.


Pale you should know by now I have no problem facing off against you whether a lone voice or with a crowd. As for physical threats, it merely speaks for your lack of intelligence. Especially since it's a messageboard, and means nothing.





Pale Rider said:


> For ALL of you to contend that there's NO DIFFERENCE between man and woman sex, and man on man sex, what fucking PLANET are you people from? Unbelievable.


For the last fucking time, quit being intentionally retarded and answer the simple question of why it's ok for you to participate in a shunned activity with a woman but not with a man. You have absolutely no reason other than "I just don't like it" and you know it, so you continue to evade. Maybe if you cuss enough you think I'll forget about it?

More than likely you'll do your usual job of crying like a little bitch and throwing in the towel because you've yet again been backed into a corner you can't argue your way out of without defaulting to physical threats or graphic personal attacks. I guess I expected more from you. 


Pale Rider said:


> So since you all see no difference, clay, you can hook up with chump and have a hot roll in the hay with him. You know, since there's no difference between you having sex with him, or you having sex with a WOMAN. *I guess you wouldn't be a fag then clay, you're a BI-SEXUAL. Yeah, I've been missing that all along. YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF FUCKING BI's!!!*


The main difference I see is that I don't care to know what it's like to fuck another man up the ass. I don't really care to know what it's like to fuck a woman up the ass either. But in both cases that hardly constitutes me demanding that those who DO do it seek help.

This entire ordeal was brought on by you admitting you've fucked women in the ass, and when asked to provide a solid reason for why that was ok but fucking a man in the ass wasn't, other than that you just don't like it, you but the neanderthal blinders on and went into a tizzy about how I don't think there's any difference between homo and hetero sex.





Pale Rider said:


> Sick mother fuckers. Well I don't feel too bad. You people are the bottom feeders on this board anyway. I could care less what you idiots think or do. Makes absolutely zero difference to me.


You keep telling yourself that. Over and over. Create your own reality so as to not have to shatter your own.





Pale Rider said:


> Have a nice day shit stains...



Here's another question for you to not answer, since you so pathetically stray from the first one.

Is it ok for you to get fucked in the ass by a woman with a strap on?


----------



## CrimsonWhite

manu1959 said:


> link me up to pale's statement thar anal sex between a man and a woman is ok



http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=474099&postcount=156


----------



## The ClayTaurus

GunnyL said:


> 2.  Could you please refer me to where PR has said anal sex between a man and woman is okay?


He certainly advocates that it's normal. It falls under the "sex between a man and a woman" umbrella or normality. Have you actually read this thread? Not that I would blame you if you hadn't...


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Pale Rider said:


> Yes, that's it kag, plain and simple. Sex with a woman is "sex with a WOMAN". It doesn't matter WHAT you're doing, you're still doing it with a WOMAN. If you people can't see that, or don't UNDERSTAND that, then it's because YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO. The difference is as plain as the nose on your face.


No. We're exposing your glaring double standard. Your entire anti-homosexual feelings boil down to the simple reason of you being disgusted by it. THat's it. You can't claim it's unnatural. You can't claim it's immoral. You can't claim it's dangerous. You can't claim it's promiscuous. You don't like it. It's all you've got.

Prove me wrong, give me a reason other than that you don't like it. Once you finally admit that's all you've got we can move on.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

manu1959 said:


> if you do a woman in the ass you don't have to give her a wrap around


Should I laugh, or treat this as a serious answer? I don't want to offend if I take the wrong impression...


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Pale Rider said:


> Evidently manu, the bottom feeder crowd see's no difference at all between a man having sex with a man, or man having sex with a woman. To them, it's the same thing.
> 
> Funny thing is though, I'd bet the idiots like chump, nuc, mister blu and clay would call themselves heterosexual, all the while purporting there's no difference between two men having sex, or a man having sex with a woman. So, they're either bi or liars. Take your pick. I'd welcome them to "prove" their point. They should go out and kiss their best man friend on the lips. There shouldn't be anything wrong with that should there? Since in their eye's there's no difference, they shouldn't have any problem doing that.


We don't contend there's no difference. You project that position on us so as to deflect away from actually having to answer the question that is asked to you over and over and over. No one's asuggesting there is no difference. We're asking you what the difference is BESIDES that you don't like it. 

We contend that the only major difference is that's it's not something we'd personally like to participate in (and the obvious difference in genders involved). And that alone is not grounds to start a crusade.

I don't kiss my friends or any men on the lips because I don't want to. And again, that's not grounds to run around crusading.


----------



## Nuc

Pale Rider said:


> To chump, jill bitch, clay crotch, and blu balls... you people are the lowest of the low. Were you all the cool little gang in grade school that were only tough in a crowd. I'd face off with any one of you pussies and I'd beat the livin' dog shit out of you. You're all a pathetic bunch of losers.
> 
> For ALL of you to contend that there's NO DIFFERENCE between man and woman sex, and man on man sex, what fucking PLANET are you people from? Unbelievable.
> 
> So since you all see no difference, clay, you can hook up with chump and have a hot roll in the hay with him. You know, since there's no difference between you having sex with him, or you having sex with a WOMAN. *I guess you wouldn't be a fag then clay, you're a BI-SEXUAL. Yeah, I've been missing that all along. YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF FUCKING BI's!!!*
> 
> Sick mother fuckers. Well I don't feel too bad. You people are the bottom feeders on this board anyway. I could care less what you idiots think or do. Makes absolutely zero difference to me.
> 
> Have a nice day shit stains...



Hmmm....sounds like someone in meltdown mode. Why have you become hysterical, Pale? Get control of yourself, your behavior seems womanly or maybe even gay. How do we know you are really a man? In fact do you really exist?


----------



## kurtsprincess

The ClayTaurus said:


> We don't contend there's no difference. You project that position on us so as to deflect away from actually having to answer the question that is asked to you over and over and over. No one's asuggesting there is no difference. We're asking you *what the difference is* BESIDES that you don't like it.
> 
> We contend that the only major difference is that's it's not something we'd personally like to participate in (and the obvious difference in genders involved). And that alone is not grounds to start a crusade.
> 
> I don't kiss my friends or any men on the lips because I don't want to. And again, that's not grounds to run around crusading.



I'll attempt to answer your question.  

The difference is one's belief system.  Slippery slope type of thing.  At one time it was considered abnormal and immoral to have sex with someone of the same gender.  Acceptance is gaining ground.

Now let's move on.......

Currently, it is considered abnormal and immoral to have sex with children.  With the number of sexual predators and pedophiles in our world today.........what if they start a campaign to gain acceptance for their abnormal behavior.

People who are "crusading" can feel the ground slipping away, grain by grain.

I'm not saying homosexuals are sexual predators or pedophiles....just that the parallel is that the behaviors were, at one time, considered to be abnormal and immoral.


----------



## Nuc

All I can say is if I were a woman, I would much rather have any kind of sex with an attractive woman than have anal sex with an angry hateful creep like Pale Rider. 

Females: Consensus?

Agree or disagree? 

 :clap1:  :clap1:  :clap1:  :clap1:


----------



## kurtsprincess

Nuc said:


> All I can say is if I were a woman, I would much rather have any kind of sex with an attractive woman than have anal sex with an angry hateful creep like Pale Rider.
> 
> Females: Consensus?
> 
> Agree or disagree?
> 
> :clap1:  :clap1:  :clap1:  :clap1:




Well, I can't say that PR is an "angry, hateful creep", because I don't know him.  I think he has strong beliefs just as you do.  

However, I will state emphatically that I would rather go without sex period than to have sex with another woman.  For me it's not an either/or solution.  I'm not attracted to angry, hateful creeps or women.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

kurtsprincess said:


> I'll attempt to answer your question.
> 
> The difference is one's belief system.  Slippery slope type of thing.  At one time it was considered abnormal and immoral to have sex with someone of the same gender.  Acceptance is gaining ground.
> 
> Now let's move on.......
> 
> Currently, it is considered abnormal and immoral to have sex with children.  With the number of sexual predators and pedophiles in our world today.........what if they start a campaign to gain acceptance for their abnormal behavior.
> 
> People who are "crusading" can feel the ground slipping away, grain by grain.
> 
> I'm not saying homosexuals are sexual predators or pedophiles....just that the parallel is that the behaviors were, at one time, considered to be abnormal and immoral.


I appreciate you actually attempting to answer!

I would absolutely agree it's a difference in one's belief system. Same as someone who smokes, or doesn't excercise, or drives Hyundai's, etc. etc.

And again, the the child-sex comparison doesn't hold because the issue of consent arrises. Homosexuals practicing with consenting homosexuals is different than a pedophile taking advantage of an unwilling or naive child who knows no better.

A pedophile movement has no basis to stand on, as they are clearly abusing another citizen and infringing on their freedom. The differences between a pedophile (or bestiality) movement and a homosexuality movement are as clear as day.


----------



## 007

Nuc said:


> All I can say is if I were a woman, I would much rather have any kind of sex with an attractive woman than have anal sex with an angry hateful creep like Pale Rider.
> 
> Females: Consensus?
> 
> Agree or disagree?
> 
> :clap1:  :clap1:  :clap1:  :clap1:



Typical, moronic, wisconsin thought.

You make me ecstatic I left that shitty state, and imbiciles like you behind.

Do any COW TIPPING lately you depraved cheese head?


----------



## 007

The ClayTaurus said:


> For the last fucking time,



That'll be the day coming from you... the arguement boy.



The ClayTaurus said:


> This entire ordeal was brought on by you admitting you've fucked women in the ass, and when asked to provide a solid reason for why that was ok but fucking a man in the ass wasn't,



That's where it started alright, and then I asked you if you couldn't see the difference between a man having sex with a woman, or a man having sex with a man, and YOU clay, have DODGED that QUESTION from that point on. You're accusations against me can be turned right around and leveled back at yourself. I'm no more guilty of not answering something to you than you are NOT ANSWERING ME. So be a man and answer MY question, and quit with the "slain by the words you lack" act. It's only giving people here a good show of what a mouthy little fuck you are.



The ClayTaurus said:


> Is it ok for you to get fucked in the ass by a woman with a strap on?



Now there's a VERY good example of how your brain works. Twisted and perverted.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Pale Rider said:


> That'll be the day coming from you... the arguement boy.


If you'd just acknowledge/answer the argument, you'd get your day. The repetition is your fault. Repeated feigned ignorance won't derail my question.





Pale Rider said:


> That's where it started alright, and then I asked you if you couldn't see the difference between a man having sex with a woman, or a man having sex with a man, and YOU clay, have DODGED that QUESTION from that point on. You're accusations against me can be turned right around and leveled back at yourself. I'm no more guilty of not answering something to you than you are NOT ANSWERING ME. So be a man and answer MY question, and quit with the "slain by the words you lack" act. It's only giving people here a good show of what a mouthy little fuck you are.


READ THE THREAD. 

1) I never said there was no difference. 
2) I answered what a difference was.

I've answered your question, now take a hold of your balls and answer mine. Or spin deflect piss and moan some more. Whichever you please.





Pale Rider said:


> Now there's a VERY good example of how your brain works. Twisted and perverted.


But I thought any sex between a man and a woman was acceptable/normal? Please, for sanity's sake, TRY to be the slightest bit consistent.


----------



## Nuc

Pale Rider said:


> Typical, moronic, wisconsin thought.
> 
> You make me ecstatic I left that shitty state, and imbiciles like you behind.
> 
> Do any COW TIPPING lately you depraved cheese head?



It's good you left, because generally we are not as bitter or angry as you are. You wouldn't fit in. 

Now that your obsession with Anal Sex has made you into the board laughingstock why don't you change your name to Anal Rider?


----------



## Kagom

Pale Rider said:


> Yes, that's it kag, plain and simple. Sex with a woman is "sex with a WOMAN". It doesn't matter WHAT you're doing, you're still doing it with a WOMAN. If you people can't see that, or don't UNDERSTAND that, then it's because YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO. The difference is as plain as the nose on your face.
> 
> Here ya go kag, if there is NO DIFFERENCE between you having anal sex with a man, and you having anal sex with a WOMAN, THEN WHY DON'T YOU HAVE ANAL SEX WITH A WOMAN???!!!
> 
> Now weasel your way out of that one...


Weasel my way out, eh?  Fine: I'm not sexually attracted to women and I'd elaborate more, but I try to have some decency.


----------



## archangel

Kagom said:


> Weasel my way out, eh?  Fine: I'm not sexually attracted to women and I'd elaborate more, but I try to have some decency.





Typical homosexual argument..."I'm not attracted to women" Please elaborate!
Are you afraid of boobs...or are you afraid you may be sucked back into the womb?


----------



## Kagom

archangel said:


> Typical homosexual argument..."I'm not attracted to women" Please elaborate!
> Are you afraid of boobs...or are you afraid you may be sucked back into the womb?


I have no fear of the female anatomy.  On the contrary, I knew more about it than my heterosexual male friends seemed to.

I just don't find the female body sexually attractive.  It's not that hard to explain and it's very simple.

So, then, why aren't you attracted to men?  And dont' give me "it's wrong" or any stupid shit like that.  I gave you a direct answer and now I'd like one here.


----------



## archangel

Kagom said:


> I have no fear of the female anatomy.  On the contrary, I knew more about it than my heterosexual male friends seemed to.
> 
> I just don't find the female body sexually attractive.  It's not that hard to explain and it's very simple.
> 
> So, then, why aren't you attracted to men?  And dont' give me "it's wrong" or any stupid shit like that.  I gave you a direct answer and now I'd like one here.





I am attracted to men as equals,buddies, friends someone to share sports and combat with...however they have the wrong plumbing and I do not suffer from sexual immaturity or Narcissim!(don't correct the spelling I invented this word so I can spell it anyway I want):food1:  for thought!


----------



## Kagom

archangel said:


> I am attracted to men as equals,buddies, friends someone to share sports and combat with...however they have the wrong plumbing and I do not suffer from sexual immaturity or Narcissim!(don't correct the spelling I invented this word so I can spell it anyway I want):food1:  for thought!


You twist the question I ask.  Why aren't you SEXUALLY ATTRACTED to men?  And as for sexual immaturity: what a crock of shit, archangel.  I've nothing kind to say about that.


----------



## archangel

Kagom said:


> You twist the question I ask.  Why aren't you SEXUALLY ATTRACTED to men?  And as for sexual immaturity: what a crock of shit, archangel.  I've nothing kind to say about that.





I answered your question...Ya just can't handle the truth!..You are losing your composure...musta struck a nerve!....Are you really a closet hetro?...Struggling with baggage...Was your mother overbearing or what?


----------



## Kagom

archangel said:


> I answered your question...Ya just can't handle the truth!..You are losing your composure...musta struck a nerve!....Are you really a closet hetro?...Struggling with baggage...Was your mother overbearing or what?


Actually, I'm just speaking my mind more freely now, thank you ^^

That just didn't seem like much of an answer to me, care to elaborate?

And closet hetero?  That's an adorable little phrase


----------



## -Cp

What everyone here seems to be missing is that Homosexuality - like all forms of habitual sin - can only be cured by the salvation power of Christ. Homo's are no more predisposed to their sin than a habitual theif is to stealing... 

Both are outward symptoms of a sinful nature that's gone amuck and unchecked. 

I do find it odd that so many Christians jump on the "let's hate queers" bandwagon when I'm sure many of them have habitual sin in their own lives. The reality is that God hates ALL form of sin in people's lives and only He can forgive them of it and help break the bonds of it which enslaves them. 

While I agree there are differences - Last I checked Adulterers haven't been marching on the streets demanding rights etc - we all need to keep in mind that God loves the fags just as much as the straight folks. The unfortunate part for homo's, however, is that we live in a country that has so many groups of other sin-lovers that tell them their habitual sin is somehow "okay".


----------



## archangel

Kagom said:


> Actually, I'm just speaking my mind more freely now, thank you ^^
> 
> That just didn't seem like much of an answer to me, care to elaborate?
> 
> And closet hetero?  That's an adorable little phrase





No I don't care to elaborate...my statement was very clear...try digesting it...or ask another adult to explain it to you! Hint... sexual immaturity relates to self love the 'N' word...and mutual masturbation! I'm done with this conversation!


----------



## Kagom

archangel said:


> No I don't care to elaborate...my statement was very clear...try digesting it...or ask another adult to explain it to you! Hint... sexual immaturity relates to self love the 'N' word...and mutual masturbation! I'm done with this conversation!


So, why is it when I said I'm not sexually attracted to women, you wanted an elaboration?

I fully understood what you said, I was just being cheeky.

Sexual immaturity, eh?  Well, I sure don't have that then ^^


----------



## sitarro

Kagom said:


> You twist the question I ask.  Why aren't you SEXUALLY ATTRACTED to men?  And as for sexual immaturity: what a crock of shit, archangel.  I've nothing kind to say about that.



So it is about having a mental condition that doesn't allow you to be attracted to the gender that would help you preserve your species. As a designer I would have to say that is a serious flaw. Male and females "fit" perfectly. Tall men and short woman, tall woman and short men it doesn't matter, their equipment will still accomplish what they are designed to do. The same is not true of homosexuals, everything that is done between you guys is fake, artificial and "you would have to be nuts to want to be that way"(stated by almost every homosexual I have ever heard in response to it being a choice).

It may seem natural to you but it isn't any more natural than the mental illness a pedophile suffers from.


----------



## dmp

Kagom said:


> So, why is it when I said I'm not sexually attracted to women, you wanted an elaboration?




Ya know...you COULD get help for that.  Honestly.


----------



## Kagom

sitarro said:


> So it is about having a mental condition that doesn't allow you to be attracted to the gender that would help you preserve your species. As a designer I would have to say that is a serious flaw. Male and females "fit" perfectly. Tall men and short woman, tall woman and short men it doesn't matter, their equipment will still accomplish what they are designed to do. The same is not true of homosexuals, everything that is done between you guys is fake, artificial and "you would have to be nuts to want to be that way"(stated by almost every homosexual I have ever heard in response to it being a choice).
> 
> It may seem natural to you but it isn't any more natural than the mental illness a pedophile suffers from.


Nice argument.  Typical right wing, anti-homosexual argument.  Even filled with the pedophile comparison that is full of holes.

We all go through this diatribe constantly and it always ends the same.  So I'm just going to go on and do what I've always done, but with some FLAIR!

A motherfucking mental illness?  What the hell dude?  It was taken off the damn list in the 70's, oh, but that's right, you believe some crazy militant gays fucking made the APA take it off the list.

Choice?  Goddamn right it isn't a choice.  No one'd choose to be fucking gay because of all the stupid shit that ensues from it.  But it happens anyway, don't it?

Children CAN'T FUCKING CONSENT TO SEX.  Yes, some do because they mature sexually faster than some, but on the whole, a child is not truly able to consent until around 17-18.  But that little fact's ignored because it doesn't go with your bullshit argument.

Does my ignorance show too much there?  I think I used too much flair


----------



## Hagbard Celine

Kagom said:


> I have no fear of the female anatomy.  On the contrary, I knew more about it than my heterosexual male friends seemed to.
> 
> I just don't find the female body sexually attractive.  It's not that hard to explain and it's very simple.
> 
> So, then, why aren't you attracted to men?  And dont' give me "it's wrong" or any stupid shit like that.  I gave you a direct answer and now I'd like one here.



http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lebris.cedric.free.fr/hidden/wallpapers/Adriana%2520Lima%252001.jpg&imgrefurl=http://lebris.cedric.free.fr/hidden/wallpapers/&h=1024&w=1280&sz=245&hl=en&start=15&tbnid=owGcd8kv3GcpPM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dadriana%2Blima%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DADBS,ADBS:2006-31,ADBS:en%26sa%3DN

I think you're crazy but I respect your right to choose your own lifestyle.


----------



## Kagom

dmp said:


> Ya know...you COULD get help for that.  Honestly.


Because BOVIOUSLY those reparative therapy centers "work."  I'll just go jump off that bridge now.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

Hagbard Celine said:


> http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lebris.cedric.free.fr/hidden/wallpapers/Adriana%2520Lima%252001.jpg&imgrefurl=http://lebris.cedric.free.fr/hidden/wallpapers/&h=1024&w=1280&sz=245&hl=en&start=15&tbnid=owGcd8kv3GcpPM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dadriana%2Blima%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DADBS,ADBS:2006-31,ADBS:en%26sa%3DN
> 
> I think you're crazy but I respect your right to choose your own lifestyle.


You're tellin' me!

http://lebris.cedric.free.fr/hidden/wallpapers/Catherine Bell 06 - 1280.jpg


----------



## Kagom

Screw you guys XD


----------



## Dr Grump

-Cp said:


> What everyone here seems to be missing is that Homosexuality - like all forms of habitual sin - can only be cured by the salvation power of Christ. Homo's are no more predisposed to their sin than a habitual theif is to stealing... of it which enslaves them.



What you seem to be missing is that homosexuality isn't a sin. Christ can only save those who believe in Christianity. For non-believers the point is moot.



-Cp said:


> The reality is that God hates ALL form of sin in people's lives and only He can forgive them of it and help break the bonds of it which enslaves them.



Even if a god did exist, you've decided to speak for her/him, now? Does he/she know that you are speaking on his/her behalf?



-Cp said:


> While I agree there are differences - Last I checked Adulterers haven't been marching on the streets demanding rights etc - we all need to keep in mind that God loves the fags just as much as the straight folks. The unfortunate part for homo's, however, is that we live in a country that has so many groups of other sin-lovers that tell them their habitual sin is somehow "okay".



Last I checked adulterers were not marginalised by society. Unfortunately you live in a country that has its fair share of bigots who want to control others' lives...


----------



## Dr Grump

sitarro said:


> Male and females "fit" perfectly.



Which explains why PR has anal sex with women...


----------



## dmp

Dr Grump said:


> Even if a god did exist, you've decided to speak for her/him, now? Does he/she know that you are speaking on his/her behalf?





psst....It's in the bible.


----------



## MissileMan

dmp said:


> Ya know...you COULD get help for that.  Honestly.



Have you read any of the testimonials from the organizations that claim they can cure homosexuality?  From those I read, there were very few claiming a shift to a fully functional heterosexual.  Most appeared to remain homosexual, but entered into celibacy and abstinence.  You may consider that an improvement, but it would hardly meet the definition of cured.


----------



## Dr Grump

dmp said:


> psst....It's in the bible.



pppsstttt....Get an Evangelical, Catholic, Methodist, Anglican, Presbytarian and any one of a dozen other denominations in the same room. Quote a passage from the bible. Ask them to tell you what the passage means - let the fun begin...


----------



## archangel

Kagom said:


> Screw you guys XD





Kag saw the light...'Screw the guys' does this mean he is going to turn a new leaf and chase skirts/bikinis?...Musta been Clays pic of the foxy Navy Ensign!


----------



## Kagom

archangel said:


> Kag saw the light...'Screw the guys' does this mean he is going to turn a new leaf and chase skirts/bikinis?...Musta been Clays pic of the foxy Navy Ensign!


That could have been funny, but you failed.


----------



## Dr Grump

Kagom said:


> That could have been funny, but you failed.



AA's not known for her humour...


----------



## Kagom

Dr Grump said:


> AA's not known for her humour...


I know, but really!


----------



## OCA

Kagom said:


> Because BOVIOUSLY those reparative therapy centers "work."  I'll just go jump off that bridge now.



Which bridge? Lol


----------



## dmp

Dr Grump said:


> pppsstttt....Get an Evangelical, Catholic, Methodist, Anglican, Presbytarian and any one of a dozen other denominations in the same room. Quote a passage from the bible. Ask them to tell you what the passage means - let the fun begin...




There's no conflict.  The one who reads what's written and applies basic knowledge of 'context' gets it right - regardless of denomination.

You really fear God, don't you?


----------



## 5stringJeff

Note: PR has been banned from this thread.


----------



## Kagom

OCA said:


> Which bridge? Lol


For some reason, I really wanted to add to your rep for that XD


----------



## OCA

dmp said:


> There's no conflict.  The one who reads what's written and applies basic knowledge of 'context' gets it right - regardless of denomination.
> 
> You really fear God, don't you?



Chump fears any judgement or criticism for fear he is unable to live up to it. Its really what all moral relativists fear.


----------



## Hagbard Celine

5stringJeff said:


> Note: PR has been banned from this thread.



Who is PR?

*edit* Oh, nevermind.


----------



## OCA

Kagom said:


> For some reason, I really wanted to add to your rep for that XD




You want to because it was brilliant. Hey the Rio Vista bridge into the currents of the Sacramento river, that should do the trick.


----------



## archangel

Dr Grump said:


> AA's not known for her humour...





Cause' this AA is a guy!...LOL...enjoy


----------



## Kagom

OCA said:


> You want to because it was brilliant. Hey the Rio Vista bridge into the currents of the Sacramento river, that should do the trick.


I thought it was brilliant in its own way.


----------



## sitarro

Kagom said:


> Because BOVIOUSLY those reparative therapy centers "work."  I'll just go jump off that bridge now.



On one hand you say that being homosexual is too hard and then when offered a solution to help you enjoy a normal life you talk about suicide.... you don't think you need some work on your head.:teeth:


----------



## Dr Grump

dmp said:


> There's no conflict.  The one who reads what's written and applies basic knowledge of 'context' gets it right - regardless of denomination.



LOL...And i bet when reading said passage, it is YOUR denomination that "gets it right", right?



dmp said:


> You really fear God, don't you?



I have to believe in something to fear it. I fear god about as much as I fear Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny...


----------



## The ClayTaurus

archangel said:


> Musta been Clays pic of the foxy Navy Ensign!


Do I have good taste or WHAT?


----------



## Kagom

sitarro said:


> On one hand you say that being homosexual is too hard and then when offered a solution to help you enjoy a normal life you talk about suicide.... you don't think you need some work on your head.:teeth:


Heh.  Apparently you don't quite get what I was getting at.  Being gay is hard, but I am happy and I am dealing with being gay.  And my point is that I'd rather jump off a bridge than go to a reparative therapy clinic that'll somehow fuck me up psychologically.


----------



## sitarro

Kagom said:


> Heh.  Apparently you don't quite get what I was getting at.  Being gay is hard, but I am happy and I am dealing with being gay.  And my point is that I'd rather jump off a bridge than go to a reparative therapy clinic that'll somehow fuck me up psychologically.



Fine, just trying to help..... don't expect sympathy then for how tough it is to have the area that was designed to expel waste...... nasty ,dirty, bacteria infested waste, used for what it wasn't designed for. Do plenty of heavy drugs, you'll need them to keep the illusion going and drink very heavily.


----------



## Kagom

sitarro said:


> Fine, just trying to help..... don't expect sympathy then for how tough it is to have the area that was designed to expel waste...... nasty ,dirty, bacteria infested waste, used for what it wasn't designed for. Do plenty of heavy drugs, you'll need them to keep the illusion going and drink very heavily.


Great way to stereotype!  There's a lot of things that goes into anal sex and being clean is one of them.  But I will spare you all the details.  I don't do drugs and I don't drink that much.  I'm quite happy being sober most of the time, thanks.


----------



## dmp

Kagom said:


> And my point is that I'd rather jump off a bridge than go to a reparative therapy clinic that'll somehow fuck me up psychologically.





Brother, you're that way already.  You don't HAVE to 'be' gay.  You can learn to deal with your addictions and frustrations in a way which'll likely prolong your life.


----------



## Kagom

dmp said:


> Brother, you're that way already.  You don't HAVE to 'be' gay.  You can learn to deal with your addictions and frustrations in a way which'll likely prolong your life.


Thanks for have the most correct evaluation of me ever!

Psychologically I'm fine.  I'm more than willing to bet money on that.  And someone can cure me of my jelly bean addiction?  HOT DAMN!  Frustration: the only I have is that I can't focus on my writing for longer than twenty minutes.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

dmp said:


> Brother, you're that way already.  You don't HAVE to 'be' gay.  You can learn to deal with your addictions and frustrations in a way which'll likely prolong your life.



How would you know. Have you ever been gay? How do you know that he doesn't have to be gay?


----------



## manu1959

onthefence said:


> http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=474099&postcount=156



sorry but that post neither says it is ok or natural.....


----------



## manu1959

The ClayTaurus said:


> Should I laugh, or treat this as a serious answer? I don't want to offend if I take the wrong impression...



take your pick.....


----------



## CrimsonWhite

manu1959 said:


> sorry but that post neither says it is ok or natural.....



You didn't ask for natural. You asked for ok. By stating that he engages in anal sex with women, he insinuates that it is ok.


----------



## Abbey Normal

onthefence said:


> You didn't ask for natural. You asked for ok. By stating that he engages in anal sex with women, he insinuates that it is ok.



I disagree. Many people have done things in the past when their judgment was hampered by youth or drink, that they aren't proud of, and that they don't do anymore. Pale is just more honest than most people. 

Btw, to no one in particular: I haven't seen this ridiculous of a pile-on since the Super Bowl. Enough already.


----------



## Dr Grump

Abbey Normal said:


> I haven't seen this ridiculous of a pile-on since the Super Bowl. Enough already.




I have, on tonnes of these threads. Usually the neocons/conservatives piling on non-conservatives. It'll be interesting to see if you call enough when that happens.


----------



## Abbey Normal

Dr Grump said:


> I have, on tonnes of these threads. Usually the neocons/conservatives piling on non-conservatives. It'll be interesting to see if you call enough when that happens.



It will be interesting to see if you acknowledge that you haven't been here long enough to make sweeping pronouncements about this board. But then again, I recall you started making them a few days after you arrived.


----------



## Kagom

Abbey Normal said:


> It will be interesting to see if you acknowledge that you haven't been here long enough to make sweeping pronouncements about this board. But then again, I recall you started making them a few days after you arrived.


It is rather easy to surmise what a board's like within a few days.  I've joined many and I only got a few that haven't changed.


----------



## Abbey Normal

Kagom said:


> It is rather easy to surmise what a board's like within a few days.  I've joined many and I only got a few that haven't changed.



There is a difference between "what a board is like", which is kind of a look- and-feel and tenor judgment, and making judgements on a board's actual posters'  history. The former requires a simple subjective opinion based on what you see. The latter, in order to be based on fact, requires either a longer-term membership, or more historcial posting research than most anyone is willing to undertake.


----------



## Dr Grump

Abbey Normal said:


> It will be interesting to see if you acknowledge that you haven't been here long enough to make sweeping pronouncements about this board. But then again, I recall you started making them a few days after you arrived.



You need to be here X amount of days/weeks to see somebody piled on? Yeah, right....btw, back up my "sweeping pronouncement". That aside, your argument couldn't be anymore piss weak if you tried. You are the one of the very few people on this board that, for some weird reason, believes those who have been on a messageboard longer than others somehow have more valid opinions than othersd. Very insecure IMO...an argument is an argument is an argument, anything else is just dodging....


----------



## Dr Grump

Abbey Normal said:


> The latter, in order to be based on fact, requires either a longer-term membership, or more historcial posting research than most anyone is willing to undertake.



What a load of crud. All you need to do is spend an hour reading the back posts of a particular poster. I only needed to read a couple of yours to know you are a Christian conservative. Nothing in the five months I've been here has indicated I am wrong in that regard. You are one of these people, who because you have been posting here longer than me, or others for that matter, somehow think that gives you more "rights" or more "ompf" for your opinions. You think that because you have history here, you are entitled to have a more valid opinion. Going to me original premise, what you are saying has absolutely NOTHING to do with people piling on others.


----------



## Abbey Normal

Dr Grump said:


> You need to be here X amount of days/weeks to see somebody piled on? Yeah, right....btw, back up my "sweeping pronouncement". That aside, your argument couldn't be anymore piss weak if you tried. You are the one of the very few people on this board that, for some weird reason, believes those who have been on a messageboard longer than others somehow have more valid opinions than othersd. Very insecure IMO...an argument is an argument is an argument, anything else is just dodging....



Reading comprehension, Grumpy; come on, you can do it. I did not say they have "more valid opinions". I said they have more informed opinions about the state of the board. And you have shown amazing ignorance in that department, from day one, when you came in here guns blazing about how awful our moderators are. Now you can take your insecurity arguments and project them onto someone for whom it might actually make sense, if you can find one here. I doubt you will.


----------



## Abbey Normal

Dr Grump said:


> What a load of crud. All you need to do is spend an hour reading the back posts of a particular poster. I only needed to read a couple of yours to know you are a Christian conservative. Nothing in the five months I've been here has indicated I am wrong in that regard. You are one of these people, who because you have been posting here longer than me, or others for that matter, somehow think that gives you more "rights" or more "ompf" for your opinions. You think that because you have history here, you are entitled to have a more valid opinion. Going to me original premise, what you are saying has absolutely NOTHING to do with people piling on others.



Two responding posts? I must have struck a nerve. 

Thank you for this one, though, as it is heartwarming to know that I am  consistent enough in my beliefs that it shows. Even to someone who hasn't been here very long.


----------



## Dr Grump

Abbey Normal said:


> Reading comprehension, Grumpy; come on, you can do it. I did not say they have "more valid opinions". I said they have more informed opinions about the state of the board.



How informed do you have to be to see somebody being piled on?



Abbey Normal said:


> And you have shown amazing ignorance in that department, from day one, when you came in here guns blazing about how awful our moderators are.



In what way am I ignorant? It was a good month before the mod stuff started. 



Abbey Normal said:


> Now you can take your insecurity arguments and project them onto someone for whom it might actually make sense, if you can find one here. I doubt you will.



You're the one who seems to think either:
a) Only those who have been here some time are capable of knowing if somebody is being piled on; or
b) Unless a poster knows the nuances of the board and it's long-time members (and according to you, somebody can only know that if they have been posting for some time on said board), you can't call it piling on. Talk about not making sense...


----------



## Dr Grump

Abbey Normal said:


> Two responding posts? I must have struck a nerve.



No you haven't.




Abbey Normal said:


> Thank you for this one, though, as it is heartwarming to know that I am  consistent enough in my beliefs that it shows. Even to someone who hasn't been here very long.



Which kinda puts paid to your theory that you have to be around a while to know how the board "works"...


----------



## 5stringJeff

Abbey Normal said:


> Btw, to no one in particular: I haven't seen this ridiculous of a pile-on since the Super Bowl. Enough already.



Thanks for bringing this up - there will be no flaming of anyone banned from the thread.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

5stringJeff said:


> Thanks for bringing this up - there will be no flaming of anyone banned from the thread.



I wasn't flaming. I was quoting. This is valid tactic for debating.


----------



## sitarro

Congratualations kids and naive older asswipes, 
In a matter of only a few generations the homosexual propaganda crowd has been successful at not only getting you to be accepting of their abhorent behavior but you nimrods even believe their "relationships" are equal in every way to heterosexuals(normal people). You guys are from the same generation that think blacks are really cool and actually have taste in music, car customization, treatment of women and dance inventiveness..... that's funny. I'm sure you guys have also bought into the bullshit that says homosexuals have better taste in everyhing than normal guys .... sure, ha ha ha ha, that's cute.

Oh and Clay, the phrase is.... I couldn't care less.... the way you said it on an earlier post was meaningless.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

sitarro said:


> *Congratualations *kids and naive older asswipes,
> *In* a matter of only a few generations the homosexual propaganda crowd has been successful at not only getting you to be accepting of their *abhorent *behavior but you nimrods even believe their "relationships" are equal in every way to heterosexuals(normal people). You guys are from the same generation that think blacks are really cool and actually have taste in music, car customization, treatment of women and *dance inventiveness*..... that's funny. I'm sure you guys have also bought into the bullshit that says homosexuals have better taste in *everyhing *than normal guys .... sure, ha ha ha ha, that's cute.
> 
> Oh and Clay, the phrase is.... I couldn't care less.... the way you said it on an earlier post was meaningless.


Thanks teach. Here are your errors:

1) "Congratualations" is really spelled "Congratulations"
2) You shouldn't capitalize after commas; either that or you should put a period in place of the comma. I suppose a colon might work...
3) "abhorent" has 2 r's in it.
4) "dance inventiveness"? Really?
5) "everyhing" is actually spelled "everything"

You want to keep spell/grammar checking each other?


----------



## sitarro

The ClayTaurus said:


> Thanks teach. Here are your errors:
> 
> 1) "Congratualations" is really spelled "Congratulations"
> 2) You shouldn't capitalize after commas; either that or you should put a period in place of the comma. I suppose a colon might work...
> 3) "abhorent" has 2 r's in it.
> 4) "dance inventiveness"? Really?
> 5) "everyhing" is actually spelled "everything"
> 
> You want to keep spell/grammar checking each other?



We can play that little proofing game if you want, twat. What I corrected you on had nothing to do with spelling, it had to do with you not having a clue about what you were trying to say, playa. Are you really trying to say that you could care less? So what? Kind of bothers you that the entire post describes you perfectly doesn't it? Naive child. Follower of others.

By the way, why would you think anybody gives a shit about whatever obscure garbage you last listened to? I would listen to country before that crap you think is worth spoiling the air with. :gang1:


----------



## The ClayTaurus

sitarro said:


> We can play that little proofing game if you want, twat. What I corrected you on had nothing to do with spelling, it had to do with you not having a clue about what you were trying to say, playa. Are you really trying to say that you could care less? So what?


I screwed up a phrase not because I don't understand the difference, but rather for the same reason your posts are littered with mistakes: laziness. If you wanna bust balls about proper use of the English language, we can go that route. I don't claim to have impeccable control of it, particularly when dealing with colloquialisms, but I certainly check that any critiques I do make are free from the elementary mistakes that your posts exhibit.





sitarro said:


> Kind of bothers you that the entire post describes you perfectly doesn't it? Naive child. Follower of others.


Your statements couldn't be more baseless. Although you're welcome to surprise me...





sitarro said:


> By the way, why would you think anybody gives a shit about whatever obscure garbage you last listened to?


Obscure? I thought I was a follower of others? Please, try to stay consistent with your inaccurate generalizations of me.





sitarro said:


> I would listen to country before that crap you think is worth spoiling the air with. :gang1:


Then go! Go listen to country. I really don't care.


----------



## sitarro

The ClayTaurus said:


> I screwed up a phrase not because I don't understand the difference, but rather for the same reason your posts are littered with mistakes: laziness. If you wanna bust balls about proper use of the English language, we can go that route. I don't claim to have impeccable control of it, particularly when dealing with colloquialisms, but I certainly check that any critiques I do make are free from the elementary mistakes that your posts exhibit.Your statements couldn't be more baseless. Although you're welcome to surprise me...Obscure? I thought I was a follower of others? Please, try to stay consistent with your inaccurate generalizations of me.Then go! Go listen to country. I really don't care.



My post was written after a 8 hour round trip taken to shoot 1000 photographs at a wedding and reception(wedding and reception added up to 6.5 hours by itself). If you look at the time of the post you will see that I wrote it at 3:42 in the morning after spending my 4 hour drive back reviewing and adjusting the photos on the incredible 17" Mac Book Pro using the wonderful Aperture software by Apple. Still a bit keyed up after the excitement  and dread that goes into a wedding shoot I decided to catch up on a few threads. I'm not using this as an excuse for my typo problems, it is more a dispute of your including me in your claim of laziness. Obviously by the way you pattern everything you do from buying a car to the way you wear your hat to the noise you mistakingly classify as music, you are indeed lazy and are a follower of others who also have no taste. Don't lump me into that pathetic existence. 

I may be older and slower but I certainly don't look to others to find out what to think or how to act.... I'm all grown up and find kids like you that feel they know it all, very funny. I was like you once, I didn't know shit either. The difference is that I have never stopped learning and plan to continue for the rest of my life. 

By the way, the wedding was a beautiful ceremony between a normal heterosexual couple who plan on adding to the world a couple of decent kids like they are and raising them with real American values. She is a teacher and he is an FBI agent, both are conservative but were married at a 150 year old Bed and Breakfast in the Hill country by a Justice of the Peace. Obviously "conservative" doesn't mean right wing religious fanatic.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

sitarro said:


> My post was written after a 8 hour round trip taken to shoot 1000 photographs at a wedding and reception(wedding and reception added up to 6.5 hours by itself). If you look at the time of the post you will see that I wrote it at 3:42 in the morning after spending my 4 hour drive back reviewing and adjusting the photos on the incredible 17" Mac Book Pro using the wonderful Aperture software by Apple. Still a bit keyed up after the excitement  and dread that goes into a wedding shoot I decided to catch up on a few threads. I'm not using this as an excuse for my typo problems, it is more a dispute of your including me in your claim of laziness. Obviously by the way you pattern everything you do from buying a car to the way you wear your hat to the noise you mistakingly classify as music, you are indeed lazy and are a follower of others who also have no taste. Don't lump me into that pathetic existence.


None of that even makes any sense. The orientation of my hat that you obsess over implies I'm lazy? My taste in music implies I'm lazy? You know nothing about me other than that I'm too lazy to check every post I make for perfection - something that you as well are too lazy to do. Unless you have some other reason? You were too tired?





sitarro said:


> I may be older and slower but I certainly don't look to others to find out what to think or how to act.... I'm all grown up and find kids like you that feel they know it all, very funny. I was like you once, I didn't know shit either. The difference is that I have never stopped learning and plan to continue for the rest of my life.


The only thing funny is your misconception of who I am based on things as trivial as how I wear my hat. As for why this all bothers you so much, I'll refrain from speculating.

As for you being like you, I can only hope this isn't the case when I reach your age.





sitarro said:


> By the way, the wedding was a beautiful ceremony between a normal heterosexual couple who plan on adding to the world a couple of decent kids like they are and raising them with real American values. She is a teacher and he is an FBI agent, both are conservative but were married at a 150 year old Bed and Breakfast in the Hill country by a Justice of the Peace. Obviously "conservative" doesn't mean right wing religious fanatic.


So if I plan on and hope for the same or similar, that says what about me? I guess in some aspects I AM a follower!  

Ask around; I'm not a Christophobe in the slightest.


----------



## Mr. P

Pale Rider said:


> Ex-Gay speaker Greg Quinlan
> Tuesday, June 06, 2006 -
> 
> 
> 
> Ethics & Religion
> 
> Causes & Cures of Homosexuality
> 
> by columnist Michael J. McManus
> May 24, 2006
> 
> NEWARK: What causes homosexuality? Are people born homosexual?
> 
> Last week the New Jersey Family Policy Council answered those questions by inviting Greg Quinlan, an ex-gay, to speak to clergy in six cities.
> 
> His testimony begins with his father, "who was Archie Bunker" in manner, but unlike Archie, was physically abusive, beating his son so badly he was hospitalized twice. One day at age 8, in front of his friends, Greg asked his dad, "You hate me, don't you?" His dad cursed and replied, "Yes, I hate you." Greg sighed, "I knew that."
> 
> When Greg was 9 he "professed his faith in Jesus Christ. "But as things got worse, at age 10, a boy across the street, aged 13, introduced me to sex. I knew it was wrong, but what I got was affirmation, affection, approval and someone touching me who was not beating me up.
> 
> I got involved in pornography, discos, the homosexual lifestyle. I was very, very sexually promiscuous. It is the providence of God that I, at age 47, am HIV free."
> 
> As a registered nurse he volunteered to care for 100 men who died of AIDS before he stopped counting. Quinlan went to their funerals, reading their favorite Bible verses.
> 
> He joined the Human Rights Campaign, responsible for raising tens of thousands of dollars for one of the largest and most effective lobbies in Washington, which persuaded Congress to invest in AIDS research. "They taught me how to lobby. But what the devil trained me to do, God can use for His glory," he told pastors.
> 
> Quinlan started watching the 700 Club.
> 
> At first, he wanted to "reach through the set and strangle Pat Robertson. But he saw an ex-gay on the show who shared how he left the lifestyle. "EX-GAY?" he asked himself. "How is that possible? But I hated my life. There is pleasure in sin for a season, but I wanted out."
> 
> He called a Christian friend across the country and asked him to lead him in making a re- commitment to Christ. When Quinlan prayed the sinner's prayer, "I had peace." He started going to church.
> 
> At age 35, Greg's father, who was dying due to smoking, asked his son, the RN, to care for him. One day Greg told his dad, "I can't be here tomorrow, due to work." His father who had undergone a deathbed conversion, replied, "That's OK. I love you, Greg."
> 
> He was stunned. Prompted by a nurse, he replied, "I love you too, Dad." He died the next day. When Greg started on a path of truly forgiving his father, his anger and bitterness left - along with his homosexual desires. "I had a lot of reason to be angry. Three-quarters of gays were molested at an early age, like me. Now sex education is telling kids, homosexuality is normal."
> 
> He started a ministry in Dayton, the Pro Family Network, which lobbied for passage of Ohio's one man, one woman Marriage Amendment. He's been on the 700 Club four times, with his wife. As a result, he has received death threats, which frighten her.
> 
> He answers gay critics who charge that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality: "Look at Matthew 19, in answer to the Pharisees. Jesus replies, 'Haven't you heard, at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female.' Stop there. Not Adam and Steve, or Eve and Edith, but man and woman. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one.' They had sex. That's how we all got here. Jesus is quoting Genesis, and he can because he was there," he says to applause.
> 
> "There is no biological evidence, not one repeatable study, not a single genetic test that gives any validity to homosexual behavior as a "born" trait. No one is born Gay, no one! Homosexuality is an emotional disorder, a pathology that can be and has been effectively changed when a person is highly motivated."
> 
> A woman once challenged him: "If we find a gay gene, then you will have to accept it."
> 
> "No, I won't," he countered. "Last week I heard they discovered a gene that causes hereditary breast cancer. You think that if there is a gay gene, homosexuals should embrace their homosexuality.
> 
> Then she should accept her cancer, and embrace it. NO! That's nonsense. *If diabetes has a gene, we seek to cure it. If there is a gay gene, let's work to cure it."*
> 
> "Remember Scripture, 'Such were some of you.' It is a changeable behavior."
> 
> 
> http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/templates/newstemplate.asp?articleid=272&zoneid=2



LOL, at least he admits he has no clue, while pulling the "I was gay" scam and making a ton of $$$ on speaches etc.. What a fraud!


----------



## Hagbard Celine

sitarro said:


> Congratualations kids and naive older asswipes,
> In a matter of only a few generations the homosexual propaganda crowd has been successful at not only getting you to be accepting of their abhorent behavior but you nimrods even believe their "relationships" are equal in every way to heterosexuals(normal people). You guys are from the same generation that think blacks are really cool and actually have taste in music, car customization, treatment of women and dance inventiveness..... that's funny. I'm sure you guys have also bought into the bullshit that says homosexuals have better taste in everyhing than normal guys .... sure, ha ha ha ha, that's cute.
> 
> Oh and Clay, the phrase is.... I couldn't care less.... the way you said it on an earlier post was meaningless.



Thank you for your insightful, mature and thought-provoking comments sitarro. Unfortunately, in your rampant generalization of the "homosexual propaganda crowd," you mis-represented me so I'd like to correct you. I support homosexuals in that I do not hate them for being who they are and I think it is their right to do what they want to in regard to their personal, sexual preferences. Besides, I'm not keen on the idea of ass sex with a man, so I'd rather leave it to the gays and not meddle in their affairs. That said, I do not think that homosexual and heterosexual relationships are equal. In fact, I don't even know how the word "equal" can come into a conversation about relationships, especially when the two types of relationships are so completely different. Plus I didn't realize it was a competition. I guess I'll let my girlfriend know so that we can work on our game plan. :huh: 

I also don't understand why you would insinuate that being normal, as in "(normal people)," is something to be proud of or stive toward when you clearly debased Clay for being a "follower of others" in a previous post. It appears that you are schitzophrenic in your apparent struggle between your conformist/non-conformist identities.

As for black culture, I think a lot of blacks are really cool and I think a lot aren't. I don't like a lot of the "black" music, but I do like some of it. I don't know why you would assume that I like all of it when you don't even know what kinds of music I listen to. :huh: I don't know you so I wouldn't operate under the assumption that you love polka music and value polka culture, so why would you assume that I love and value rap culture? This idea seems very odd to me. What the heck does rap even have to do with gays anyway? Seems like a non-sequiter. But what do I know? I'm not a wedding photographer. :huh:

As for gays' taste in fashion, culture, etc. Like all your other generalizations, you're once again buying into whatever stereotype you've been spoon-fed by Rush Limbaugh or whatever other soapbox pundit you get your information from. I actually had to room with a homo the one semester I lived in the dorms in college and he didn't follow any of the stereotypes. He was a slob and my fashion sense was much more advanced than his--so the lesson is that we can't always buy into stereotypes. Why not try making your own opinions based on your own observations? Embrace individuality. You don't always have to follow the crowd.


----------



## archangel

sitarro said:


> My post was written after a 8 hour round trip taken to shoot 1000 photographs at a wedding and reception(wedding and reception added up to 6.5 hours by itself). If you look at the time of the post you will see that I wrote it at 3:42 in the morning after spending my 4 hour drive back reviewing and adjusting the photos on the incredible 17" Mac Book Pro using the wonderful Aperture software by Apple. Still a bit keyed up after the excitement  and dread that goes into a wedding shoot I decided to catch up on a few threads. I'm not using this as an excuse for my typo problems, it is more a dispute of your including me in your claim of laziness. Obviously by the way you pattern everything you do from buying a car to the way you wear your hat to the noise you mistakingly classify as music, you are indeed lazy and are a follower of others who also have no taste. Don't lump me into that pathetic existence.
> 
> I may be older and slower but I certainly don't look to others to find out what to think or how to act.... I'm all grown up and find kids like you that feel they know it all, very funny. I was like you once, I didn't know shit either. The difference is that I have never stopped learning and plan to continue for the rest of my life.
> 
> By the way, the wedding was a beautiful ceremony between a normal heterosexual couple who plan on adding to the world a couple of decent kids like they are and raising them with real American values. She is a teacher and he is an FBI agent, both are conservative but were married at a 150 year old Bed and Breakfast in the Hill country by a Justice of the Peace. Obviously "conservative" doesn't mean right wing religious fanatic.





LOL...clay is young he is going through a phase of his life as all of us did...we knew it all...until reality set in...I do like his pics of the cute gals from time to time...albeit overkill sometimes is wearing!  Carry on!


----------



## The ClayTaurus

archangel said:


> LOL...clay is young he is going through a phase of his life as all of us did...we knew it all...until reality set in...I do like his pics of the cute gals from time to time...albeit overkill sometimes is wearing!  Carry on!


Hey! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## sitarro

The ClayTaurus said:


> Hey! Thanks for sharing!



Sean Combs is a Dildo and no doubt homosexual.


----------



## The ClayTaurus

sitarro said:


> Sean Combs is a Dildo and no doubt homosexual.


Can't say I disagree all that much.


----------



## archangel

The ClayTaurus said:


> Hey! Thanks for sharing!




I was young and dumb too...once upon a time...hell as a kid I thought the only cute and sexy girls were surfers and cheerleaders...blond, blue eyed, short and petite...damn was I wrong...after marrying two of em...which ended in divorce...and after traveling the world as a young man...well damn I found out hey there is a world undiscovered out there...albeit I still prefer short and petite...only cause I am short...not that I don't like starring into the ...well ya get the drift...but hey what can I say...I am only humane...this also applies to all walks of life... just so the gals won't accuse me of focusing on lust...I place this disclaimer...ya want to fit in when young...when older ya want to be respected for leading the way...what else can I say!


----------



## Hagbard Celine

archangel said:


> I was young and dumb too...once upon a time...hell as a kid I thought the only cute and sexy girls were surfers and cheerleaders...blond, blue eyed, short and petite...damn was I wrong...after marrying two of em...which ended in divorce...and after traveling the world as a young man...well damn I found out hey there is a world undiscovered out there...albeit I still prefer short and petite...only cause *I am short*...not that I don't like starring into the ...well ya get the drift...but hey what can I say...I am only humane...this also applies to all walks of life... just so the gals won't accuse me of focusing on lust...I place this disclaimer...ya want to fit in when young...when older ya want to be respected for leading the way...what else can I say!


----------



## archangel

Hagbard Celine said:


>




Laugh all ya want...good things come in small packages...I fogot more than ya will ever KNOW!.. :rotflmao:


----------



## archangel

Where did clay go...never mind he is probably out looking for 'Gidget' Boldly go where no man has gone before" Never mind been there and done that..."Like Surfs up" Dude...ahh the innocents of youth!:halo:


----------



## The ClayTaurus

archangel said:


> Where did clay go...never mind he is probably out looking for 'Gidget' Boldy go where no man has gone before" Never mind been there and done that..."Like Surfs up" Dude...ahh the innocents of youth!:halo:


Was I supposed to comment on your post?

Football is on. You are currently outranked.


----------



## archangel

The ClayTaurus said:


> Was I supposed to comment on your post?
> 
> Football is on. You are currently outranked.




Naw just having some fun...enjoy the game...gotta run the GD wants to hijack my PC for homework...ahh the life of a G/pa!


----------



## Nuc

archangel said:


> I was young and dumb too...once upon a time...



And now?  :huh:


----------



## Avatar4321

sitarro said:


> Congratualations kids and naive older asswipes,
> In a matter of only a few generations the homosexual propaganda crowd has been successful at not only getting you to be accepting of their abhorent behavior but you nimrods even believe their "relationships" are equal in every way to heterosexuals(normal people). You guys are from the same generation that think blacks are really cool and actually have taste in music, car customization, treatment of women and dance inventiveness..... that's funny. I'm sure you guys have also bought into the bullshit that says homosexuals have better taste in everyhing than normal guys .... sure, ha ha ha ha, that's cute.
> 
> Oh and Clay, the phrase is.... I couldn't care less.... the way you said it on an earlier post was meaningless.



I dont think our generation is as bad as you think. Or atleast the ones that are are starting to grow out of it. My friend since like i was 12 has begun wheening himself off of rape and hip off and been moving towards classical of all things. Which shocked me even though i think classical is pretty cool stuff sometimes. Of course it might be do more to the fact that he isnt on drugs all the time or drunk off his ass anymore.

My point is: There is hope


----------



## archangel

Nuc said:


> And now?  :huh:




Sorry nuc not ignoring you...just saw this post...so here is the answer to your confusion...I am older and wiser now...and you? Never mind ya are probably out and about practicing your martial arts in order to reach a much higher plain in the Buddhist movement...not older and wiser but younger and dumber....
 the food of the Buddhist...lol


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Bump

One of my favorite threads form the good old days.


----------



## Luissa

Pale Rider said:


> Ex-Gay speaker Greg Quinlan
> Tuesday, June 06, 2006 -
> 
> 
> 
> Ethics & Religion
> 
> Causes & Cures of Homosexuality
> 
> by columnist Michael J. McManus
> May 24, 2006
> 
> NEWARK: What causes homosexuality? Are people born homosexual?
> 
> Last week the New Jersey Family Policy Council answered those questions by inviting Greg Quinlan, an ex-gay, to speak to clergy in six cities.
> 
> His testimony begins with his father, "who was Archie Bunker" in manner, but unlike Archie, was physically abusive, beating his son so badly he was hospitalized twice. One day at age 8, in front of his friends, Greg asked his dad, "You hate me, don't you?" His dad cursed and replied, "Yes, I hate you." Greg sighed, "I knew that."
> 
> When Greg was 9 he "professed his faith in Jesus Christ. "But as things got worse, at age 10, a boy across the street, aged 13, introduced me to sex. I knew it was wrong, but what I got was affirmation, affection, approval and someone touching me who was not beating me up.
> 
> I got involved in pornography, discos, the homosexual lifestyle. I was very, very sexually promiscuous. It is the providence of God that I, at age 47, am HIV free."
> 
> As a registered nurse he volunteered to care for 100 men who died of AIDS before he stopped counting. Quinlan went to their funerals, reading their favorite Bible verses.
> 
> He joined the Human Rights Campaign, responsible for raising tens of thousands of dollars for one of the largest and most effective lobbies in Washington, which persuaded Congress to invest in AIDS research. "They taught me how to lobby. But what the devil trained me to do, God can use for His glory," he told pastors.
> 
> Quinlan started watching the 700 Club.
> 
> At first, he wanted to "reach through the set and strangle Pat Robertson. But he saw an ex-gay on the show who shared how he left the lifestyle. "EX-GAY?" he asked himself. "How is that possible? But I hated my life. There is pleasure in sin for a season, but I wanted out."
> 
> He called a Christian friend across the country and asked him to lead him in making a re- commitment to Christ. When Quinlan prayed the sinner's prayer, "I had peace." He started going to church.
> 
> At age 35, Greg's father, who was dying due to smoking, asked his son, the RN, to care for him. One day Greg told his dad, "I can't be here tomorrow, due to work." His father who had undergone a deathbed conversion, replied, "That's OK. I love you, Greg."
> 
> He was stunned. Prompted by a nurse, he replied, "I love you too, Dad." He died the next day. When Greg started on a path of truly forgiving his father, his anger and bitterness left - along with his homosexual desires. "I had a lot of reason to be angry. Three-quarters of gays were molested at an early age, like me. Now sex education is telling kids, homosexuality is normal."
> 
> He started a ministry in Dayton, the Pro Family Network, which lobbied for passage of Ohio's one man, one woman Marriage Amendment. He's been on the 700 Club four times, with his wife. As a result, he has received death threats, which frighten her.
> 
> He answers gay critics who charge that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality: "Look at Matthew 19, in answer to the Pharisees. Jesus replies, 'Haven't you heard, at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female.' Stop there. Not Adam and Steve, or Eve and Edith, but man and woman. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one.' They had sex. That's how we all got here. Jesus is quoting Genesis, and he can because he was there," he says to applause.
> 
> "There is no biological evidence, not one repeatable study, not a single genetic test that gives any validity to homosexual behavior as a "born" trait. No one is born Gay, no one! Homosexuality is an emotional disorder, a pathology that can be and has been effectively changed when a person is highly motivated."
> 
> A woman once challenged him: "If we find a gay gene, then you will have to accept it."
> 
> "No, I won't," he countered. "Last week I heard they discovered a gene that causes hereditary breast cancer. You think that if there is a gay gene, homosexuals should embrace their homosexuality.
> 
> Then she should accept her cancer, and embrace it. NO! That's nonsense. If diabetes has a gene, we seek to cure it. If there is a gay gene, let's work to cure it."
> 
> "Remember Scripture, 'Such were some of you.' It is a changeable behavior."
> 
> 
> http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/templates/newstemplate.asp?articleid=272&zoneid=2



And I bet he watches gay porn on the internet, and dreams about the guy who works at Starbucks.


----------



## Tom Clancy

Hot damnn.. 2006? oh boy.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Luissa said:


> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ex-Gay speaker Greg Quinlan
> Tuesday, June 06, 2006 -
> 
> 
> 
> Ethics & Religion
> 
> Causes & Cures of Homosexuality
> 
> by columnist Michael J. McManus
> May 24, 2006
> 
> NEWARK: What causes homosexuality? Are people born homosexual?
> 
> Last week the New Jersey Family Policy Council answered those questions by inviting Greg Quinlan, an ex-gay, to speak to clergy in six cities.
> 
> His testimony begins with his father, "who was Archie Bunker" in manner, but unlike Archie, was physically abusive, beating his son so badly he was hospitalized twice. One day at age 8, in front of his friends, Greg asked his dad, "You hate me, don't you?" His dad cursed and replied, "Yes, I hate you." Greg sighed, "I knew that."
> 
> When Greg was 9 he "professed his faith in Jesus Christ. "But as things got worse, at age 10, a boy across the street, aged 13, introduced me to sex. I knew it was wrong, but what I got was affirmation, affection, approval and someone touching me who was not beating me up.
> 
> I got involved in pornography, discos, the homosexual lifestyle. I was very, very sexually promiscuous. It is the providence of God that I, at age 47, am HIV free."
> 
> As a registered nurse he volunteered to care for 100 men who died of AIDS before he stopped counting. Quinlan went to their funerals, reading their favorite Bible verses.
> 
> He joined the Human Rights Campaign, responsible for raising tens of thousands of dollars for one of the largest and most effective lobbies in Washington, which persuaded Congress to invest in AIDS research. "They taught me how to lobby. But what the devil trained me to do, God can use for His glory," he told pastors.
> 
> Quinlan started watching the 700 Club.
> 
> At first, he wanted to "reach through the set and strangle Pat Robertson. But he saw an ex-gay on the show who shared how he left the lifestyle. "EX-GAY?" he asked himself. "How is that possible? But I hated my life. There is pleasure in sin for a season, but I wanted out."
> 
> He called a Christian friend across the country and asked him to lead him in making a re- commitment to Christ. When Quinlan prayed the sinner's prayer, "I had peace." He started going to church.
> 
> At age 35, Greg's father, who was dying due to smoking, asked his son, the RN, to care for him. One day Greg told his dad, "I can't be here tomorrow, due to work." His father who had undergone a deathbed conversion, replied, "That's OK. I love you, Greg."
> 
> He was stunned. Prompted by a nurse, he replied, "I love you too, Dad." He died the next day. When Greg started on a path of truly forgiving his father, his anger and bitterness left - along with his homosexual desires. "I had a lot of reason to be angry. Three-quarters of gays were molested at an early age, like me. Now sex education is telling kids, homosexuality is normal."
> 
> He started a ministry in Dayton, the Pro Family Network, which lobbied for passage of Ohio's one man, one woman Marriage Amendment. He's been on the 700 Club four times, with his wife. As a result, he has received death threats, which frighten her.
> 
> He answers gay critics who charge that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality: "Look at Matthew 19, in answer to the Pharisees. Jesus replies, 'Haven't you heard, at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female.' Stop there. Not Adam and Steve, or Eve and Edith, but man and woman. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one.' They had sex. That's how we all got here. Jesus is quoting Genesis, and he can because he was there," he says to applause.
> 
> "There is no biological evidence, not one repeatable study, not a single genetic test that gives any validity to homosexual behavior as a "born" trait. No one is born Gay, no one! Homosexuality is an emotional disorder, a pathology that can be and has been effectively changed when a person is highly motivated."
> 
> A woman once challenged him: "If we find a gay gene, then you will have to accept it."
> 
> "No, I won't," he countered. "Last week I heard they discovered a gene that causes hereditary breast cancer. You think that if there is a gay gene, homosexuals should embrace their homosexuality.
> 
> Then she should accept her cancer, and embrace it. NO! That's nonsense. If diabetes has a gene, we seek to cure it. If there is a gay gene, let's work to cure it."
> 
> "Remember Scripture, 'Such were some of you.' It is a changeable behavior."
> 
> 
> http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/templates/newstemplate.asp?articleid=272&zoneid=2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I bet he watches gay porn on the internet, and dreams about the guy who work at Starbucks.
Click to expand...


This was a classic thread. A debate that went on for two weeks. Good times.


----------



## Luissa

CrimsonWhite said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pale Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ex-Gay speaker Greg Quinlan
> Tuesday, June 06, 2006 -
> 
> 
> 
> Ethics & Religion
> 
> Causes & Cures of Homosexuality
> 
> by columnist Michael J. McManus
> May 24, 2006
> 
> NEWARK: What causes homosexuality? Are people born homosexual?
> 
> Last week the New Jersey Family Policy Council answered those questions by inviting Greg Quinlan, an ex-gay, to speak to clergy in six cities.
> 
> His testimony begins with his father, "who was Archie Bunker" in manner, but unlike Archie, was physically abusive, beating his son so badly he was hospitalized twice. One day at age 8, in front of his friends, Greg asked his dad, "You hate me, don't you?" His dad cursed and replied, "Yes, I hate you." Greg sighed, "I knew that."
> 
> When Greg was 9 he "professed his faith in Jesus Christ. "But as things got worse, at age 10, a boy across the street, aged 13, introduced me to sex. I knew it was wrong, but what I got was affirmation, affection, approval and someone touching me who was not beating me up.
> 
> I got involved in pornography, discos, the homosexual lifestyle. I was very, very sexually promiscuous. It is the providence of God that I, at age 47, am HIV free."
> 
> As a registered nurse he volunteered to care for 100 men who died of AIDS before he stopped counting. Quinlan went to their funerals, reading their favorite Bible verses.
> 
> He joined the Human Rights Campaign, responsible for raising tens of thousands of dollars for one of the largest and most effective lobbies in Washington, which persuaded Congress to invest in AIDS research. "They taught me how to lobby. But what the devil trained me to do, God can use for His glory," he told pastors.
> 
> Quinlan started watching the 700 Club.
> 
> At first, he wanted to "reach through the set and strangle Pat Robertson. But he saw an ex-gay on the show who shared how he left the lifestyle. "EX-GAY?" he asked himself. "How is that possible? But I hated my life. There is pleasure in sin for a season, but I wanted out."
> 
> He called a Christian friend across the country and asked him to lead him in making a re- commitment to Christ. When Quinlan prayed the sinner's prayer, "I had peace." He started going to church.
> 
> At age 35, Greg's father, who was dying due to smoking, asked his son, the RN, to care for him. One day Greg told his dad, "I can't be here tomorrow, due to work." His father who had undergone a deathbed conversion, replied, "That's OK. I love you, Greg."
> 
> He was stunned. Prompted by a nurse, he replied, "I love you too, Dad." He died the next day. When Greg started on a path of truly forgiving his father, his anger and bitterness left - along with his homosexual desires. "I had a lot of reason to be angry. Three-quarters of gays were molested at an early age, like me. Now sex education is telling kids, homosexuality is normal."
> 
> He started a ministry in Dayton, the Pro Family Network, which lobbied for passage of Ohio's one man, one woman Marriage Amendment. He's been on the 700 Club four times, with his wife. As a result, he has received death threats, which frighten her.
> 
> He answers gay critics who charge that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality: "Look at Matthew 19, in answer to the Pharisees. Jesus replies, 'Haven't you heard, at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female.' Stop there. Not Adam and Steve, or Eve and Edith, but man and woman. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one.' They had sex. That's how we all got here. Jesus is quoting Genesis, and he can because he was there," he says to applause.
> 
> "There is no biological evidence, not one repeatable study, not a single genetic test that gives any validity to homosexual behavior as a "born" trait. No one is born Gay, no one! Homosexuality is an emotional disorder, a pathology that can be and has been effectively changed when a person is highly motivated."
> 
> A woman once challenged him: "If we find a gay gene, then you will have to accept it."
> 
> "No, I won't," he countered. "Last week I heard they discovered a gene that causes hereditary breast cancer. You think that if there is a gay gene, homosexuals should embrace their homosexuality.
> 
> Then she should accept her cancer, and embrace it. NO! That's nonsense. If diabetes has a gene, we seek to cure it. If there is a gay gene, let's work to cure it."
> 
> "Remember Scripture, 'Such were some of you.' It is a changeable behavior."
> 
> 
> http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/templates/newstemplate.asp?articleid=272&zoneid=2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I bet he watches gay porn on the internet, and dreams about the guy who work at Starbucks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This was a classic thread. A debate that went on for two weeks. Good times.
Click to expand...


I didn't even notice when it was posted. 

I think my pot was laced.


----------



## Ravi

Pale Rider said:


> Ex-Gay speaker Greg Quinlan
> Tuesday, June 06, 2006 -
> 
> 
> 
> Ethics & Religion
> 
> Causes & Cures of Homosexuality
> 
> by columnist Michael J. McManus
> May 24, 2006
> 
> NEWARK: What causes homosexuality? Are people born homosexual?
> 
> Last week the New Jersey Family Policy Council answered those questions by inviting Greg Quinlan, an ex-gay, to speak to clergy in six cities.
> 
> His testimony begins with his father, "who was Archie Bunker" in manner, but unlike Archie, was physically abusive, beating his son so badly he was hospitalized twice. One day at age 8, in front of his friends, Greg asked his dad, "You hate me, don't you?" His dad cursed and replied, "Yes, I hate you." Greg sighed, "I knew that."
> 
> When Greg was 9 he "professed his faith in Jesus Christ. "But as things got worse, at age 10, a boy across the street, aged 13, introduced me to sex. I knew it was wrong, but what I got was affirmation, affection, approval and someone touching me who was not beating me up.
> 
> I got involved in pornography, discos, the homosexual lifestyle. I was very, very sexually promiscuous. It is the providence of God that I, at age 47, am HIV free."
> 
> As a registered nurse he volunteered to care for 100 men who died of AIDS before he stopped counting. Quinlan went to their funerals, reading their favorite Bible verses.
> 
> He joined the Human Rights Campaign, responsible for raising tens of thousands of dollars for one of the largest and most effective lobbies in Washington, which persuaded Congress to invest in AIDS research. "They taught me how to lobby. But what the devil trained me to do, God can use for His glory," he told pastors.
> 
> Quinlan started watching the 700 Club.
> 
> At first, he wanted to "reach through the set and strangle Pat Robertson. But he saw an ex-gay on the show who shared how he left the lifestyle. "EX-GAY?" he asked himself. "How is that possible? But I hated my life. There is pleasure in sin for a season, but I wanted out."
> 
> He called a Christian friend across the country and asked him to lead him in making a re- commitment to Christ. When Quinlan prayed the sinner's prayer, "I had peace." He started going to church.
> 
> At age 35, Greg's father, who was dying due to smoking, asked his son, the RN, to care for him. One day Greg told his dad, "I can't be here tomorrow, due to work." His father who had undergone a deathbed conversion, replied, "That's OK. I love you, Greg."
> 
> He was stunned. Prompted by a nurse, he replied, "I love you too, Dad." He died the next day. When Greg started on a path of truly forgiving his father, his anger and bitterness left - along with his homosexual desires. "I had a lot of reason to be angry. Three-quarters of gays were molested at an early age, like me. Now sex education is telling kids, homosexuality is normal."
> 
> He started a ministry in Dayton, the Pro Family Network, which lobbied for passage of Ohio's one man, one woman Marriage Amendment. He's been on the 700 Club four times, with his wife. As a result, he has received death threats, which frighten her.
> 
> He answers gay critics who charge that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality: "Look at Matthew 19, in answer to the Pharisees. Jesus replies, 'Haven't you heard, at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female.' Stop there. Not Adam and Steve, or Eve and Edith, but man and woman. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one.' They had sex. That's how we all got here. Jesus is quoting Genesis, and he can because he was there," he says to applause.
> 
> "There is no biological evidence, not one repeatable study, not a single genetic test that gives any validity to homosexual behavior as a "born" trait. No one is born Gay, no one! Homosexuality is an emotional disorder, a pathology that can be and has been effectively changed when a person is highly motivated."
> 
> A woman once challenged him: "If we find a gay gene, then you will have to accept it."
> 
> "No, I won't," he countered. "Last week I heard they discovered a gene that causes hereditary breast cancer. You think that if there is a gay gene, homosexuals should embrace their homosexuality.
> 
> Then she should accept her cancer, and embrace it. NO! That's nonsense. If diabetes has a gene, we seek to cure it. If there is a gay gene, let's work to cure it."
> 
> "Remember Scripture, 'Such were some of you.' It is a changeable behavior."
> 
> 
> http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/templates/newstemplate.asp?articleid=272&zoneid=2


Good for you, Pole.


----------



## eagleseven

A thread back from the dead?

---

I love the moral of this story...

_Homosexuality = Cancer_

...such loving, thoughtful Christians.


----------



## Modbert

Today I learned: Pale Rider was just as ignorant as he was now back in 2006.


----------



## Dante

Pale Rider said:


> Ex-Gay speaker Greg Quinlan
> Tuesday, June 06, 2006 -
> 
> 
> 
> Ethics & Religion
> 
> Causes & Cures of Homosexuality
> 
> by columnist Michael J. McManus
> May 24, 2006
> 
> NEWARK: What causes homosexuality? Are people born homosexual?
> 
> Last week the New Jersey Family Policy Council answered those questions by inviting Greg Quinlan, an ex-gay, to speak to clergy in six cities.
> 
> His testimony begins with his father, "who was Archie Bunker" in manner, but unlike Archie, was physically abusive, beating his son so badly he was hospitalized twice. One day at age 8, in front of his friends, Greg asked his dad, "You hate me, don't you?" His dad cursed and replied, "Yes, I hate you." Greg sighed, "I knew that."
> 
> When Greg was 9 he "professed his faith in Jesus Christ. "But as things got worse, at age 10, a boy across the street, aged 13, introduced me to sex. I knew it was wrong, but what I got was affirmation, affection, approval and someone touching me who was not beating me up.
> 
> I got involved in pornography, discos, the homosexual lifestyle. I was very, very sexually promiscuous. It is the providence of God that I, at age 47, am HIV free."
> 
> As a registered nurse he volunteered to care for 100 men who died of AIDS before he stopped counting. Quinlan went to their funerals, reading their favorite Bible verses.
> 
> He joined the Human Rights Campaign, responsible for raising tens of thousands of dollars for one of the largest and most effective lobbies in Washington, which persuaded Congress to invest in AIDS research. "They taught me how to lobby. But what the devil trained me to do, God can use for His glory," he told pastors.
> 
> Quinlan started watching the 700 Club.
> 
> At first, he wanted to "reach through the set and strangle Pat Robertson. But he saw an ex-gay on the show who shared how he left the lifestyle. "EX-GAY?" he asked himself. "How is that possible? But I hated my life. There is pleasure in sin for a season, but I wanted out."
> 
> He called a Christian friend across the country and asked him to lead him in making a re- commitment to Christ. When Quinlan prayed the sinner's prayer, "I had peace." He started going to church.
> 
> At age 35, Greg's father, who was dying due to smoking, asked his son, the RN, to care for him. One day Greg told his dad, "I can't be here tomorrow, due to work." His father who had undergone a deathbed conversion, replied, "That's OK. I love you, Greg."
> 
> He was stunned. Prompted by a nurse, he replied, "I love you too, Dad." He died the next day. When Greg started on a path of truly forgiving his father, his anger and bitterness left - along with his homosexual desires. "I had a lot of reason to be angry. Three-quarters of gays were molested at an early age, like me. Now sex education is telling kids, homosexuality is normal."
> 
> He started a ministry in Dayton, the Pro Family Network, which lobbied for passage of Ohio's one man, one woman Marriage Amendment. He's been on the 700 Club four times, with his wife. As a result, he has received death threats, which frighten her.
> 
> He answers gay critics who charge that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality: "Look at Matthew 19, in answer to the Pharisees. Jesus replies, 'Haven't you heard, at the beginning, the Creator made them male and female.' Stop there. Not Adam and Steve, or Eve and Edith, but man and woman. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one.' They had sex. That's how we all got here. Jesus is quoting Genesis, and he can because he was there," he says to applause.
> 
> "There is no biological evidence, not one repeatable study, not a single genetic test that gives any validity to homosexual behavior as a "born" trait. No one is born Gay, no one! Homosexuality is an emotional disorder, a pathology that can be and has been effectively changed when a person is highly motivated."
> 
> A woman once challenged him: "If we find a gay gene, then you will have to accept it."
> 
> "No, I won't," he countered. "Last week I heard they discovered a gene that causes hereditary breast cancer. You think that if there is a gay gene, homosexuals should embrace their homosexuality.
> 
> Then she should accept her cancer, and embrace it. NO! That's nonsense. If diabetes has a gene, we seek to cure it. If there is a gay gene, let's work to cure it."
> 
> "Remember Scripture, 'Such were some of you.' It is a changeable behavior."
> 
> 
> http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/templates/newstemplate.asp?articleid=272&zoneid=2


----------

