# Why the Choice to Be Childless is Bad for America



## Klyde (Nov 8, 2016)

What do you think about childree movement?

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Sitting around a table at a hookah bar in New York’s East Village with three women and a gay man, all of them in their 20s and 30s and all resolved to remain childless, a few things quickly became clear: First, for many younger Americans and especially those in cities, having children is no longer an obvious or inevitable choice. Second, many of those opting for childlessness have legitimate, if perhaps selfish, reasons for their decision.

I like seeing people with their children, because they have their special bond, and that’s really sweet, but it’s not something I look at for myself,” says Tiffany Jordan, a lively 30-year-old freelance wardrobe stylist who lives in Queens in a rent-stabilized apartment and dates a man who “practically lives there.

Jordan and her friends are part of a rising tide. Postfamilial America is in ascendancy as the fertility rate among women has plummeted, since the 2008 economic crisis and the Great Recession that followed, to its lowest level since reliable numbers were first kept in 1920. That downturn has put the U.S. fertility rate increasingly in line with those in other developed economies—suggesting that even if the economy rebounds, the birthrate may not. For many individual women considering their own lives and careers, children have become a choice, rather than an inevitable milestone—and one that comes with more costs than benefits.

“I don’t know if that’s selfish,” *says Jordan*, the daughter of an Ecuadoran and an Ohioan who grew up in the South Bronx, explaining her reasons for a decision increasingly common among women across the developed world, where more than half of the world’s population is now reproducing at below the replacement rate. “I feel like my life is not stable enough, and I don’t think I necessarily want it to be ... Kids, they change your entire life. That’s the name of the game. And that’s not something I’m interested in doing.”

The global causes of postfamilialism are diverse, and many, on their own, are socially favorable or at least benign. The rush of people worldwide into cities, for example, has ushered in prosperity for hundreds of millions, allowing families to be both smaller and more prosperous. Improvements in contraception and increased access to it have given women far greater control of their reproductive options, which has coincided with a decline in religion in most advanced countries. With women’s rights largely secured in the First World and their seats in the classroom, the statehouse, and the boardroom no longer tokens or novelties, children have ceased being an economic or cultural necessity for many or an eventual outcome of sex"

Source


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

No one has the obligation to have a child.

My wife and I are childless by choice. And quite frankly it's none of your fucking business if we are


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

I love kids and wish I had more.  I couldnt imagine not having children.  What a sucky way to go through life. I guess if you dont know what you are missing then you dont know your life sucks. I feel for the people that cant have children.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

Asclepias said:


> I love kids and wish I had more.  I couldnt imagine not having children.  What a sucky way to go through life. I guess if you dont know what you are missing then you dont know your life sucks. I feel for the people that cant have children.



I know exactly what I'm missing

Nothing at all


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## mdk (Nov 8, 2016)

Klyde said:


> What do you think about childree movement?
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What businesses is it of yours if people wish to start a family or not? Hint: It isn't.


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## Darkwind (Nov 8, 2016)

Not sure how this is anyone's business but theirs.  However, given who they are and their attitudes, not breeding is doing the whole world a favor.   

Now obviously, that does not pertain to everyone who wants to live without children.


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## Pete7469 (Nov 8, 2016)

Liberals should remain childless at all costs. 

The reason why I do not promote the anti abortion agenda is because abortion almost exclusively eradicates libturd DNA.

Libturds are parasites, their DNA is defective after generations of no longer having to avoid predators, kill their own food, or even look where the fuck they're going. We've kept inferior genetic garbage alive with redundant safety measures and warnings all over everything. Bring back Lawn Jarts, Three Wheelers, and get rid of GFI's. If you're stupid enough to drag something with a cord into the shower or a swimming pool, you don't need to reproduce and you damn sure don't need to vote.


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## Pete7469 (Nov 8, 2016)

Darkwind said:


> Not sure how this is anyone's business but theirs.  However, given who they are and their attitudes, not breeding is doing the whole world a favor.
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> Now obviously, that does not pertain to everyone who wants to live without children.



LIBERALS not breeding benefits the world.

The rest of us do need to have at least a couple kids to help take care of us when we're old.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 8, 2016)

If you don't want kids, then that is your decision, not anyone else's, nor is it anyone else's business.


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## Fenton Lum (Nov 8, 2016)

If america is so pro family values we could use an economic system that doesn't chew up human beings and families.


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


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I disagree. You cant know because you have no clue. You just said you purposely chose not to have any.


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

mdk said:


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Its no ones business but yours. I think the OP is just discussing the topic.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

Asclepias said:


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Yeah and I don't know anyone with kids right?

All my friends have children, my sister and all my cousins have children, most people have children so yes I know exactly what I'm missing and it's nothing


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


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Thats like saying you have a Black friend. You still dont know unless you experience the drama of having to care for a child from birth and watch them grow. Its not the same as watching someone else do it.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

Asclepias said:


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says you.


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


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Thats right. Says me who has 3 kids and just took on a 4th officially.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

Asclepias said:


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So what?
You want a fucking medal?


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

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No thanks. I already have 4 medals but you wouldnt understand that.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

Asclepias said:


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Sure I do you had kids for some kind of personal validation


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


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Nope. Each of my kids were totally unplanned. See?  I told you that you had absolutely no clue.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

Asclepias said:


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So you live your life without a plan and now you think of your kids as some sort of medal to pin on your chest.

You like most people don't even know why you had kids you just blindly followed the get married and have kids brainwashing


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


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You sound foolish. You cant plan everything that is going to happen to you in life. Thats a free life tip by the way. I plan certain aspects of my life. My kids were all unplanned. Didnt stop me from making a success out of my life and frankly they were driving force. Yes my kids feel like winning the lotto to be honest. Everytime they smile. Everytime they say something that astounds me with its clarity and innocence. Everytime the do something and get a win.

 Most people understand if they have sex they will have a kid. Having a child is not something you ask why.  That would be like asking why you should take another breath. Its nature and what every life form on the planet was meant to do. Procreate.  All you can do is thank whatever force that gave you the ability to have a child.  Your last thought is exactly why I know you have no clue.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

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You can certainly plan whether or not you're going to have kids. And most people know that sex doesn't have to result in pregnancy. 
  I wonder how your kids will react when you tell them why you had them.

"Well kids I was meant to procreate that's all there is to it"


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

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Of course you can plan to have kids. The point is that plans dont always work out the way you wanted them to. Banking on your plans never failing is a fools game.  Sex doesnt have to result in pregnancy but there is always the possibility that you will get pregnant if you have sex. See what I mean by plans failing?  All my kids were conceived while the mother was on birth control except of course the last one.

My kids reacted fine. They know they were not planned. Your inability to understand the situation is showing again. I dont understand why you think its important to them that they were planned?  Sounds like a personal issue you may need to see a therapist about.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

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No thanks I'm perfectly happy with my decisions but if you were using birth control then you obviously didn't want kids or at least the first 3 but at least you talked yourself into believing that you did


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

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Obviously you are not happy, quite defensive about your choice, and angry about my good fortune.  Lets point out the indicators. You claim that you are missing nothing without knowing what you are talking about. You feel a lack of control even if someone else has a child unplanned.  You feel children will feel bad if they were not planned. You have some major personal issues you need to deal with.

I didnt talk myself into believing that I wanted children. Unplanned doesnt mean i didnt want them. They came and I was always extremely happy about that.  There is no joy like having a child. I dont know why I keep telling you that. You wouldnt even be able to comprehend.


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## Fenton Lum (Nov 8, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


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The go be happy, damn.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

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I'm fine with my choice

you didn't choose to have kids as the first 3 were conceived while actively trying to prevent pregnancy so now you rationalize that you wanted them even when your behavior prior to their birth indicated you didn't want them. And BTW what are the odds that your wife was on the pill and got pregnant 3 times?  I'd say you have a better chance of hitting the lottery.


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


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Nope. I didnt actively try to prevent pregnancy. What made you think that?  I didnt do anything to prevent a pregnancy. There is no rationalization to it. if that were true it would have taken time for me to rationalize it but i was immediately a happy papa on hearing the news.  I have always wanted kids.  

What was my behavior prior to having my kids? Thats an odd assumption since you dont know me.  I dont know what the odds are. All I know is that with my first child the woman told me she was using birth control and didnt know how it happened. Same with my wife and the next 2.  The doctor verified in each case and told me it happens sometimes even with birth control.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

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you said your wife was on birth control so that is actively trying to prevent pregnancy. and sure it can happen sometimes like maybe one or 2% but with you it it failed 75% of the time

Face it those women lied to you about being on the pill


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


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I'm not my wife. She was on birth control not me. I didnt even know she was on birth control.

So your claim is that the doctors lied to me as well?  I just said the doctor verified in all cases.

Face it. Youre just bitter because you talked yourself out of having children or you cant have any.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 8, 2016)

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A pregnancy test is not verification of birth control failing.  More than likely it's verification of someone not taking it or taking it improperly


and you don't seem to know much about what's going on in your life do you?


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## Asclepias (Nov 8, 2016)

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Who told you that a pregnancy test was a verification of birth control failing?  I said the doctors in each case verified that the woman and my wife were on birth control. However, none of that has anything to do with your personal issues regarding being unable to get someone pregnant. Basically by saying you decided not to have a child you are declaring sour grapes because you cant have one.


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## fbj (Nov 16, 2016)

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I would kill myself if I lived in a house with 3 kids  lol    You are lucky


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## Unkotare (Nov 16, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


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How do you know that?


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## Unkotare (Nov 16, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


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Soooo... Is your decision the result of "brainwashing"?


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## Papageorgio (Nov 16, 2016)

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Children are a punishment, you he is being punished. Obama explained that.


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## guno (Nov 16, 2016)

Pete7469 said:


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white Christians aren't breeding and are dying off faster then they spawn, fact


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## Papageorgio (Nov 16, 2016)

guno said:


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Well by the time you die it might mean something p, but you will be dead so it won't matter to you.


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## MarathonMike (Nov 16, 2016)

If you aren't 100% committed to having kids then it is a very responsible decision to not have them IMO.


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## Asclepias (Nov 17, 2016)

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No wonder white people are dying out. They think kids are punishment?  Nothing like helping to create a life, watching it grow as you shape it, watching it take your teachings and adapt them to his or her own temperament, then stepping out in the world to make it a better place.


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## Asclepias (Nov 17, 2016)

MarathonMike said:


> If you aren't 100% committed to having kids then it is a very responsible decision to not have them IMO.


True. If you are not in it for the long haul or you cant even take care of yourself then you are not being responsible by having children. You need to get your shit together mentally before or the minute you realize you have created a life.


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## HenryBHough (Nov 17, 2016)

I know two families with history of schizophrenia.  Each of them (at the time) consisted of an apparently normal pair of parents, each of whom had siblings afflicted.  One of the couples did a little family research and found the pattern in each of the two preceding generations and chose not to have children.  

The other couple ignored the sibling problem (on one side, hers) and purposely did not look into family history.  They now have four children who survived into middle age.  All of them had two or more children in young adulthood.  Of the original four children one is, in late middle age, institutionalied; another functions under heavy medication.  Of the grandchildren, one schizoid from early teens.  The others?  We'll see.

So was it wrong for the couple who decided not to reproduce to have come to that decision?


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## Asclepias (Nov 17, 2016)

HenryBHough said:


> I know two families with history of schizophrenia.  Each of them (at the time) consisted of an apparently normal pair of parents, each of whom had siblings afflicted.  One of the couples did a little family research and found the pattern in each of the two preceding generations and chose not to have children.
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Depends on what you mean by "wrong".  My family has a history of addiction to various substances like drugs and alcohol. It didnt stop me from wanting and having children.  I did tell my children about the family history and to stay away from those things.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 17, 2016)

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I don't think they are a punishment, Obama said they were a punishment. I think my kids are a blessing.


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## WinterBorn (Nov 17, 2016)

My kids are my greatest joy, even after they have grown up.  But, having said that, the idea that someone would have children out of some sense of patriotic duty is absolutely insane.  I don't care what nonsense is spouted, the decision to have kids is personal not public.


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## Gagafritz (Nov 18, 2016)

I just don't believe my life would have been fulfilled without children.  It is one of life's greatest blessings.  I think the desire to have children is very deep.  However, it isn't my business if you don't have children.  But, in my experience, those who don't tend to talk about children in derogatory terms.  Making snide comments and remarks.  The respect needs to go both ways.


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## Asclepias (Nov 19, 2016)

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You must have listened to the alt right to make that claim.  You have a white guy on this very thread that says children are a punishment but yet you want to claim Obama said it.while taking his words out of context. Obama was speaking about abortion and why he backed it.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 19, 2016)

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I know what I was referring to. They are in perfect context.


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## Asclepias (Nov 19, 2016)

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You were deflecting from the point.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 19, 2016)

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Good, glad to hear it, I have four kids, I am proud of the way they turned out and Obama said children were a punishment.


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## Asclepias (Nov 19, 2016)

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Youre glad you deflected from my point about white people dying out due in part to not having kids?


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## Papageorgio (Nov 19, 2016)

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I didn't think it was a great point, sorry.


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## Asclepias (Nov 19, 2016)

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OK. Thats were you fell down and lost it. You tried to think on your own instead of asking for help like I told you to once before.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 19, 2016)

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I didn't fall down, your thought wasn't that great, I know you think it was a great mind blowing statement however you think that of every post you make. Good thing I don't listen to you.


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## Asclepias (Nov 19, 2016)

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Yes you fell down. No I dont think ti was a mind blowing statement. Its just a simple statement of fact that most people already know about. Of course you listen to me. You replied to me.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 19, 2016)

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You are an egotistical nut, I'll give you that.


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## Asclepias (Nov 19, 2016)

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I'm sorry I intimidate you so much that you believe I thought my statement was something mind blowing.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 19, 2016)

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No, you are just fun free entertainment for me. I take nothing and no one seriously on this board, you are all here for my amusement.


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## Asclepias (Nov 19, 2016)

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Says the guy that believed my statement was something mindblowing.  Youre not fooling anyone. You got emotional when I made the statement.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 19, 2016)

Emotional? Lol! No. I said, you think they are mind blowing statements, I think no such thing. 

This is all fun for me and you just supply the laughs.


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## Asclepias (Nov 19, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> Emotional? Lol! No. I said, you think they are mind blowing statements, I think no such thing.
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Why did you waste brain cycles thinking about if I believed something was mind blowing or not?  I obviously got to you.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 19, 2016)

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See you confirm your ego every post. I really don't care. You are in my world, not the other way around.


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## Asclepias (Nov 19, 2016)

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All worlds are subworlds of mine. You prove it every time you waste time trying to figure out how I feel about my statements.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 19, 2016)

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I don't care how you feel, I assign them and that is that.


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## JFK_USA (Nov 19, 2016)

Freedom means the freedom to NOT have children.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 20, 2016)

JFK_USA said:


> Freedom means the freedom to NOT have children.



Thanks Captain Obvious.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

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Because I know many people who have kids.
It ain't rocket science to know what's involved in raising children


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

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that should make you happy so what are you whining about?


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2016)

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I'm whining about you deflecting. Its amusing to see you go to such lengths to avoid the point.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

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I haven't deflected anything you might want to look at the posts so you know to whom you are responding


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2016)

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I know exactly who I am talking to. You were the first to deflect when you starting whining about me having children while the mothers were on birth control. Youre just upset you dont have the ability to get anyone pregnant.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

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that's funny

I never wanted to get anyone pregnant because I don't see that particular event as anything that defines a man
FYI I chose to have a vasectomy when I was 26 so I specifically would not have the ability to get a woman pregnant


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2016)

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Give it a rest. I dont believe you. We know you cant get anyone pregnant so please stop trying to convince me.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

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lol

You think I give a flying fuck what you believe?


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2016)

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Obviously you do give more than a flying fuck. You tried to convince me you willingly had a vasectomy.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

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I didn't try to convince you of anything I merely mentioned it once

And yet you seem to have to respond to me even though you don't believe what I post


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2016)

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I never asked you to mention it so stop trying to convince me.

Responding to you has nothing to do with believing you. Its good to laugh early in the morning.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

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Oh so now before anyone can say anything to you you have to ask them first?


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2016)

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You can say what you want. The point is that I dont believe you yet you insist on trying to convince me all while claiming you dont give a fuck. We both know that you do care deeply or you wouldnt have mentioned it.


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## WheelieAddict (Nov 21, 2016)

Klyde said:


> What do you think about childree movement?
> 
> "
> Sitting around a table at a hookah bar in New York’s East Village with three women and a gay man, all of them in their 20s and 30s and all resolved to remain childless, a few things quickly became clear: First, for many younger Americans and especially those in cities, having children is no longer an obvious or inevitable choice. Second, many of those opting for childlessness have legitimate, if perhaps selfish, reasons for their decision.
> ...



I don't have any kids because of a combination of:
-no rush to have any, not ruling it out
-don't care about your reasons why I should have kids
-practices safe sex that's why I don't have kids at this point
-I could be shooting blanks but I always wear a condom, so who knows about that.
-I don't really think about it.
-Are you that crazy ex that tried to pressure me into marriage and kids after going out with her for 6 months?
-Maybe I have a secret kid that I can't talk about because CIA.
-Maybe I have bread with an alien, more CIA.
-I wish the CIA didn't take my unisex earthling/236sxB son/daughter away from me.
-Just kidding about the CIA
-Now that I think about it I was pretty wild back in the day, maybe there is a Wheelie jr. I don't know about.
-Do beer children count?
-Getting kicked in the balls may have rendered me impotent, it's a real possibility I didn't think about much until now.
-Or maybe it was casing it a bunch of times on a motocross bike, slamming my balls into the gas tank.
-It's easier to wheelie with a girl on the back, that probably scares them away though they may think I'm reckless. Holy crap that's why I don't have kids.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

Asclepias said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


I don't believe you had 3 kids while your partner was on birth control yet you've spent pages trying to convince me of that so for once take your own advice


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



Your belief on the subject is of no importance to me and you are being a drama queen. One post is not even one page. Its amusing when you deflect from the point. You were trying to convince me you could get someone pregnant. I dont believe it.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

Asclepias said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


yet you think your belief on a subject is important to me

And I never tried to convince you I can get someone pregnant since I told you I had a vasectomy for the specific purpose of making myself incapable of getting a woman pregnant


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...


My belief is important to you. That much is obvious. Thats why you spent multiple posts trying to convince me.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

Asclepias said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


just because you say something doesn't mean it's true

and please quote all of these multiple pages of quotes where I tried to convince you I was capable of getting a woman pregnant


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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
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I agree. Thats why I dont believe you.

Obviously you cant read well either. I didnt say multiple pages. I said multiple posts.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

Asclepias said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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then quote the multiple posts

I actually reviewed the entire thread and not once did I try to convince you I could get a woman pregnant.  I told you why I can't but never once tried to tell you I could


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## Unkotare (Nov 21, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


> Unkotare said:
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## Asclepias (Nov 21, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
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If you were important I would quote the posts but since youre not you can re-review the entire thread until you figure it out. Meanwhile I have more important things to do other than allow you to attempt to convince me you can get anyone pregnant.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 21, 2016)

Asclepias said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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 the reason you won't quote said posts is because they do not exist


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## MisterBeale (Nov 23, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> 
> > Unkotare said:
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Agreed.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 23, 2016)

Klyde said:


> What do you think about childree movement?
> 
> "
> Sitting around a table at a hookah bar in New York’s East Village with three women and a gay man, all of them in their 20s and 30s and all resolved to remain childless, a few things quickly became clear: First, for many younger Americans and especially those in cities, having children is no longer an obvious or inevitable choice. Second, many of those opting for childlessness have legitimate, if perhaps selfish, reasons for their decision.
> ...



Basically, what I take away from this is, anyone that does not have any children, is free to do so.

Anyone that wants to have children, is also free to do so.

However, if we are to maintain old age social insurance programs, that require younger workers to contribute to pay into them, one of two things needs to happen, folks need to contribute to the overall growth rate, or we need to encourage immigration.

Anyone who has studied the fall of the Roman Empire will tell you this.


Overall, I think the best solution to this would be to either do away with old age social security, or, if people do not have children, take away their government guaranteed social security.

Before the government guaranteed old age social security, having children was one way a person guaranteed they would be taken care of in their old age.  Now it seems, from this analysis, really nothing has changed, this just applies to the whole nation.  If a person expects that government or society to take care of them in their old age, they need to contribute to society by having children, that is all there is to this. 

If a person does not wish to have children, then they need to set up a separate IRA, and not expect to draw on government old age services, or at least this is what the article would have us logically come to as a final conclusion.


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## WinterBorn (Nov 23, 2016)

If someone remains childless, and you take away their Social Security, will you stop deducting it from their paycheck and refund what they have already paid?


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## MisterBeale (Nov 23, 2016)

WinterBorn said:


> If someone remains childless, and you take away their Social Security, will you stop deducting it from their paycheck and refund what they have already paid?


Sounds like a great idea.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 23, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Klyde said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think about childree movement?
> ...



If they wish not to have children then by your logic they should not pay taxes to send other people's children to school or pay for those on welfare.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 23, 2016)

I couldn't really say though, I was just reading in the social ramifications that the article was alluding to though.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 23, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Klyde said:
> ...


Not my logic, read the article.  It had more to do with old age insurance, it said nothing about education.


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## Papageorgio (Nov 23, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Papageorgio said:
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> 
> > MisterBeale said:
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Why should those that don't have children need to pay for their welfare and education when they retire they get nothing. Pretty screwy to me.


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## ChrisL (Nov 23, 2016)

I'm sure people who choose to not be parents are making the right choice.  Some people should NOT be parents at all.


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## anotherlife (Nov 23, 2016)

Klyde said:


> What do you think about childree movement?
> 
> "
> Sitting around a table at a hookah bar in New York’s East Village with three women and a gay man, all of them in their 20s and 30s and all resolved to remain childless, a few things quickly became clear: First, for many younger Americans and especially those in cities, having children is no longer an obvious or inevitable choice. Second, many of those opting for childlessness have legitimate, if perhaps selfish, reasons for their decision.
> ...



This is very interesting.  I think it is a good idea not to have children in the 21st century.  For starters, they are not likely to find a job when grown up.  Then before growing up, the father is not likely to be able to enjoy time with them, because national statistics show that women on average initiate divorce ~ 2 years into a marriage, then move.  Jobless society usually demands long moves to any new job, so families under the pressure of needing two earners can't survive.


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## anotherlife (Nov 23, 2016)

Skull Pilot said:


> No one has the obligation to have a child.
> 
> My wife and I are childless by choice. And quite frankly it's none of your fucking business if we are



You are afraid of other people's judgement upon you.  It would be interesting to find out why other people bully people who don't want children.


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## Skull Pilot (Nov 23, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > No one has the obligation to have a child.
> ...


 I really don't give a shit what other people think of me. 


 As far as the judgement thing  I don't call it bullying , st's because people who choose to be childless are choosing to do something outside traditional behavior and the people who pass judgement can't understand that or they wish they had the balls to take control of their own lives.

I never understood it but it's what people do


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## MisterBeale (Nov 23, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Klyde said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think about childree movement?
> ...


I think that the parent who initiates divorcee doesn't give a shit about the kids, and therefor should not have any rights to the children, beyond what ever rights the custodial parent give to them.

If the women initiates divorce proceedings, the father automatically should get custody.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 23, 2016)

Papageorgio said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



I won't disagree with you, but the article didn't really address that.

I don't support government compulsory education, so I can't really comment on that issue.


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## anotherlife (Nov 23, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> anotherlife said:
> 
> 
> > Klyde said:
> ...



Yes, what is lawful, and what is just, seem pretty different again.  I don't see this change, considering that there are plenty of special interest groups, that will fight effectively in Washington, and in European capitals, to keep women having it both ways in the marriage and parenting scene.


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## anotherlife (Nov 23, 2016)

Statistically, in a western country, there are three popular reasons for pregnancies and child birth.
1. Many women feel less worthy of the woman card if they have no children.
2. Many women live in poverty as single individuals, and pregnancy opens up a government cash flow guarantee for them.
3. Many women give themselves into emotional hypes, never thinking about the cost of it in hard work, because the law guarantees them bailout always.
In congress the buzzword "male domination" carries a good hit card power.


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## Unkotare (Nov 23, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> Statistically, in a western country, there are three popular reasons for pregnancies and child birth.
> 1. Many women feel less worthy of the woman card if they have no children.
> 2. Many women live in poverty as single individuals, and pregnancy opens up a government cash flow guarantee for them.
> 3. Many women give themselves into emotional hypes, never thinking about the cost of it in hard work, because the law guarantees them bailout always.
> In congress the buzzword "male domination" carries a good hit card power.




"Statistically"? Where are these statistics? 'Pulled out of your ass' is not a statistic, champ.


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## Unkotare (Nov 23, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ...
> 
> If the women initiates divorce proceedings, the father automatically should get custody.




Does that really make sense to you?


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## MisterBeale (Nov 23, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


If he wants the child?  And if there is a dispute over who should have custody?  Absolutely.

The party that is at fault for the break down of the family SHOULD NOT be the one that raises the child and instills the moral and ethical value that family is worthless.  Instead, let the parent that has respect for the sacredness of the family raise the child.  

If this happens, the rate of divorce, and the respect and sacredness with which people hold the institution of the family vis-à-vis the worth of an individual's happiness will come back into balance.  Nothing is more important than how we raise an as yet undeveloped human mind.  

Yet, some of these juvenile adults that aren't completely happy and decide to have children somehow think their own happiness is more important?  Bullshit.


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## ChrisL (Nov 23, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



I used to babysit for a guy who had custody of all four of his kids because his wife ran off on them with some guy she met online.  All of them girls too.  Can you believe that nut?  Another boy I babysat for, same situation except his mother was an unstable druggy.  Poor kids.  

However, I don't agree that the father should automatically get custody.  That depends entirely upon the situation.  Maybe he abused his wife or something.  Maybe he was a drunk or a druggy.


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## Unkotare (Nov 23, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> .... I think it is a good idea not to have children in the 21st century. ....




That doesn't make sense.


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## Unkotare (Nov 23, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...




You're not thinking.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 23, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Unless there are extenuating circumstances, such as those like Chris mentioned, my philosophy is sound.  If you don't think so, you should offer up a counter other than sticking your fingers in your ears and going, "no. . no.. . no"


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## MisterBeale (Nov 23, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Well, naturally, extenuating circumstances like addiction, or abuse not with standing.

However, even in these instances, don't you think the wife and mother should at least first make one attempt to get into therepy/counseling with the father to save the family unit?  Every individual only gets one shot in life, only one mother, one father, and one childhood.  Don't you think people just give up too easy today?  Doesn't everyone just want to have instant gratification and instant easy life?

For instance, is it alright of the mother to just leave if the father gets a debilitating and slowly progressing disease that will make it so she can not be upwardly mobile?  Our society values wealth and material items. 

If after they marry and have one child, the father gets something like MS, is that now grounds for divorce?  What about a severe anxiety or depressive disorder?  Those can be the underlying cause to that substance abuse you were talking about.  It then becomes very easy for the other parent to just cheat, and then walk out, doesn't it?  Is that self centered behavior good for the future self-esteem, and identity of the children, or would it be better to see the one parent help the other though such a time of hardship?  What_ usually _happens?

Does the child see the mother and father giving each other *unconditional* love, no matter what problems arise in the relationship, or do folks bail at the first sign of problems?


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## Unkotare (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...




That's not a philosophy, not sound, and not logical. 



You are trying to equate "initiating divorce proceedings" and "fault." Doesn't work that way.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



That depends on the people involved.  This is not an ideal world and people are far from being perfect.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...





ChrisL said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


I know it doesn't work that way, I know western society has not constructed the ideal, it is focused on the individual, not the family and society.   I was just telling you how it is supposed to work if you want a healthy society instead of a sick one.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



A sick society is one that would force people who don't like one another to be together.  If the parents aren't happy, then the children aren't happy either.  Sometimes divorce IS the best solution.


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## Unkotare (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...







No, You weren't .


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Spoken like an immature individual who is clueless about what I am talking about.  Congratulations.  Parents will convince themselves of anything to make themselves believe that what they are doing is for the best.

Divorce is never the best solution for the children.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


Yeah I was.  Sorry the truth hurts buddy. 

*Mod Edit -- too close to family attack.   *


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## Unkotare (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...






Your illogical, I'll-considered, categorical pronouncements are empty and meaningless.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



Bull.  The kids are better off away from a toxic environment of hatred and fighting, distrust, disrespect.  People are fucked up!


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## Unkotare (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...




No, you were trying to promote your baseless, random musings as if they were "truth." They are not. It seems like the product of an entirely juvenile mind to insist on the validity of such facile superficiality.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

Having been the child of two parents who did nothing but bicker and fight constantly, I can say that I probably would have been better off if my parents had divorced when I was a child.  It was to the point at times where I would just want to jump out of the moving car to escape their constant bickering and fighting.  It really wears on you and, as a child, a lot of times you might blame yourself for your parents fighting, especially when the fight is over you!


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

Sure, you should give it your all to try to make it work, but if it doesn't work out, then such is life.  If your husband or wife cheated on you, and you could not forgive him or her, then you really don't have much to work with.  The basis of any good strong relationship is trust and respect.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


Why are they "fucked up?"


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



You have to ask?    Do you KNOW any people?


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> Having been the child of two parents who did nothing but bicker and fight constantly, I can say that I probably would have been better off if my parents had divorced when I was a child.  It was to the point at times where I would just want to jump out of the moving car to escape their constant bickering and fighting.  It really wears on you and, as a child, a lot of times you might blame yourself for your parents fighting, especially when the fight is over you!



So you would rather have not had any contact at all with your dad, just cut him out of your life entirely.  Get rid of him, gone, is that it?


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Having been the child of two parents who did nothing but bicker and fight constantly, I can say that I probably would have been better off if my parents had divorced when I was a child.  It was to the point at times where I would just want to jump out of the moving car to escape their constant bickering and fighting.  It really wears on you and, as a child, a lot of times you might blame yourself for your parents fighting, especially when the fight is over you!
> ...



What makes you say that?  Most children of divorce still get to see both parents.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



*Socratic method*, also known as *maieutics*, *method of elenchus*, *elenctic method*, or *Socratic debate*, is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and underlying presumptions. It is a dialectical method, often involving a discussion in which the defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is named after the classical Greek philosopher Socrates and is introduced by him in Plato's Theaetetus as midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding.
Socratic method - Wikipedia


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



And most people do not practice this and are too emotional when it comes to relationships and such things.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



I feel that is an unsubstantiated statement.  I have several friends that are single parents.  And I know several guys that had kids, whose mom's no longer make an effort to allow their teenage kids to have a relationship with their dad's.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



And there are many that do, probably more that get to see both parents than do not.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Most "people" that decide to break up families have either come from dysfunctional homes themselves, or have come from broken homes.  They have received that signal from society that it is all right to put their needs ahead of their children's needs, ahead of the families needs.

You nailed it though, folks become "too emotional."  That is a luxury you are not allowed once you have children.

If you are listless, unhappy, unfulfilled, YOU DO NOT look outside the marriage for happiness.  That is not betraying or cheating on your partner, it is cheating on YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR CHILDREN.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



It doesn't matter.  That is an unsubstantiated claim. I can't say otherwise.  Nor can you.

It is not ideal, and it leads to unhappiness and dysfunction in the child.

If it didn't, parents would not fight for physical custody if it weren't important.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



Yet, people do it ALL the time.  Lol.  So there you go.  You just gave a great point as to why people do get divorced and why sometimes it's for the best of everyone involved in the dysfunction.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

Of course it would be ideal for a child be raised by both his or her mother AND father.  The problem is that is not always feasible due to flawed human beings.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

I do agree that courts are very hesitant about separating a mother from her children, but that is slowly starting to change I think.  I see more and more dads with custody and often times even sole custody.  The children should go to the person who can care for them the best.  

Anyways, nobody should be forced to stay in an unhealthy or unhappy situation against their will.  You cannot force people to be good people or even decent people.  They are what they are.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

...


ChrisL said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



Okay, so once the woman or man is "unfulfilled" and they go off and cheat, fine, fair enough.

I am with you.  That is when I posted, if the person wants custody of the children, they should gets them, b/c, the other person obviously has respect for the family, and the person that cheated doesn't.  

Should a mother that cheated still get custody of the children if she is at fault for breaking up the family?  I don't think so.  That is all I was getting at.

That is where this whole conversation started, isn't it?

I never said there wasn't any situation where there wasn't irreconcilable differences, did I?


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ...
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> ...



What if they just hate each other?


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> I do agree that courts are very hesitant about separating a mother from her children, but that is slowly starting to change I think.  I see more and more dads with custody and often times even sole custody.  The children should go to the person who can care for them the best.
> 
> Anyways, nobody should be forced to stay in an unhealthy or unhappy situation against their will.  You cannot force people to be good people or even decent people.  They are what they are.



Well, that is where we disagree.  I think folks SHOULD be forced to stay in unhappy situations against their will.

If the situations make the children happy, that is what is most important.  IF everyone is healthy, and they are flourishing, then yeah, they should force people to be good and decent if it is at all possible for the sake of the children.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

This is why people shouldn't jump into marriages.  That is so stupid.  I never understood those people who have been married multiple, multiple times and never seem to learn any lessons.  I think people should live together before they even think about marriage.  You don't really know someone unless you live with them and are exposed to their daily habits and quirks.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree that courts are very hesitant about separating a mother from her children, but that is slowly starting to change I think.  I see more and more dads with custody and often times even sole custody.  The children should go to the person who can care for them the best.
> ...



Forcing people to be together for some fucked up sense of morality is sickening.  That is NOT freedom.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> MisterBeale said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Too fucking bad.  Smile and pretend to love each other till the kids graduate.  Who the hell is the adult here?

Children didn't ask to be born.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...



And children learn that life isn't always fair.  That's is life.


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## Alex. (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree that courts are very hesitant about separating a mother from her children, but that is slowly starting to change I think.  I see more and more dads with custody and often times even sole custody.  The children should go to the person who can care for them the best.
> ...


That is phony and sends a very poor message to children about relationships and life in general.


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## Unkotare (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > MisterBeale said:
> ...













..."Wikipedia"

...


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## Unkotare (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I do agree that courts are very hesitant about separating a mother from her children, but that is slowly starting to change I think.  I see more and more dads with custody and often times even sole custody.  The children should go to the person who can care for them the best.
> ...







That is irrational and idiotic.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


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Earlier you wanted to know why the psychology of people is fucked up?  I'm trying to tell you why sweetheart.  Humans were meant to be raised by a loving mother and have the support, encouragement and mentoring of a strong male figure around daily.  I studied anthropology and tribal societies, and the family unit.  You even even told me yourself. . .


ChrisL said:


> Bull.  The kids are better off away from a toxic environment of hatred and fighting, distrust, disrespect.  People are fucked up!



How do you think this situation got started in the first place?  How do you think this chronic narcissism started?  Have you ever seen how bad this situation has gotten in trailer parks and down in the African American projects?  It's abyssalmal.  Fathers are needed for healthy individuals.  Folks that don't have them are selfish narcissistic individuals that think the interests if children come second to the happiness of adults come first?  WTF!?, it's terrible.

You are right it is not freedom.  If you decide to have a family, to get married, and to have children, YOU GIVE UP FREEDOM.  Freedom is over.  You have made a sacred oath to something greater than yourself.  If you do not understand that, you deserve neither a mate, nor children.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


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No, adults learn life isn't always fair.  Children learn life isn't always fair in other ways.  You don't destroy a kids life just so individual adults can be narcissistic, hedonistic assholes.

What kind of adult puts themselves and their own happiness before a baby?  Wow, that is some sort of low life.


In the old days of chivalry it was women and children first.  Now it is. . . who ever can get to the life boats first, and if you don't like it?  Well. .  too bad, life isn't always fair.  Fuck it, let the kids drown and starve, as long as we get ours and we're happy, eh?


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## Alex. (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


> ChrisL said:
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"Earlier you wanted to know why the psychology of people is fucked up? I'm trying to tell you why sweetheart. Humans were meant to be raised by a loving mother and have the support, encouragement and mentoring of a strong male figure around daily."

Not true.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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Wahhh Wahhh. . .  Do you need a safe space?

Of course it is rational only if you want a functional and organized society.

If you want to live however you want to live?  Just don't have any children, it's as easy as that.

It's pretty clear to me, for some time, who the idiot around here is.


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## Unkotare (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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Because YOU are irrational and idiotic? No, all set, thanks.


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## MisterBeale (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


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Earlier you wanted to know why the psychology of people is fucked up?  I'm trying to tell you why sweetheart.  Humans were meant to be reaised by a loving mother and have the support, encourgement and mentoring of a strong male figure around daily.  I studied antropology and tribal societies, and the family unit.  You even asked. . . .


Unkotare said:


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Think what you will.

It's not based on superficiality.  It's based on who we are as a species.
An Anthropological Approach to Family Studies on JSTOR

Is the Family Universal? - SPIRO - 2009 - American Anthropologist - Wiley Online Library

Power - FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS, MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS


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## Unkotare (Nov 24, 2016)

MisterBeale said:


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It's based on the superficial nonsense of a 'thinker' about as deep as a teaspoon,


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## anotherlife (Nov 24, 2016)

Unkotare said:


> anotherlife said:
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> > .... I think it is a good idea not to have children in the 21st century. ....
> ...


Why doesn't it make sense?  It was the agricultural society where every child was an asset, and the more hands, the more harvest you got.  Those days are long gone.  Or  do you mean the huge pressure that exists to get born?


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## anotherlife (Nov 24, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> This is why people shouldn't jump into marriages.  That is so stupid.  I never understood those people who have been married multiple, multiple times and never seem to learn any lessons.  I think people should live together before they even think about marriage.  You don't really know someone unless you live with them and are exposed to their daily habits and quirks.



Isn't this why traditional European middle class families, as well as modern Indian families, all work by arranged marriages?  Marriage is a family to family affair, and the parents know it better by default, where their children's strengths and weaknesses are.  So arranged marriages are more solid, if arranged correctly.  Many agencies specialize in this too.

But looks like the modern western middle class is not the traditional middle class, it has different origins, and the average western person takes marriage for a contract, like an exchange of goods and services, not a partnership.  So a western marriage is bound to be a hype.  I am not Indian or Asian, or any of those races, I am a white European, but I would think twice before marrying a woman who is not arranged.


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

anotherlife said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > This is why people shouldn't jump into marriages.  That is so stupid.  I never understood those people who have been married multiple, multiple times and never seem to learn any lessons.  I think people should live together before they even think about marriage.  You don't really know someone unless you live with them and are exposed to their daily habits and quirks.
> ...



Who would want that?


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## ChrisL (Nov 24, 2016)

Oh wait, I know, guys who can't get a woman on their own.


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## The Professor (Nov 24, 2016)

Asclepias said:


> I love kids and wish I had more.  I couldnt imagine not having children.  What a sucky way to go through life. I guess if you dont know what you are missing then you dont know your life sucks. I feel for the people that cant have children.



The life you prefer is not necessarily the life that others prefer. This applies to all aspects of life including career paths, educational goals, sexual preferences, hobbies, social interactions and having children. You fail to grasp the simple concept that people are different and not everyone wants to live like you.

Perhaps you have never known childless-by-choice couples who have full, rich, rewarding lives. I have. Don't feel sorry for those who elect not to have children. They are obviously happier without children or they would have made different choices. I feel sorry only for those people who want to have children but can't.


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## anotherlife (Nov 26, 2016)

ChrisL said:


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Those of us want arranged marriages who think of marriage as something that is supposed to last longer than the national average of two years before divorce.  If you are a member of a national majority, then this is unthinkable, I guess I understand.  

But if you are of a community that is small, needs to protect its assets and turfs, then accepting the handouts and assimilation into the bio mass of national majority is a nose dive, so not an option.  

Maybe I can illustrate it like this.  I am not a Jew, but a Jew woman or man will pinch the booties of anyone she/he wants a piece of.  But when the question is about marriage, they will never consider non Jews.  And to the topic of this thread, this ensures that their children have a place in life when born.  Very different from the random throw of the national majority bio mass.


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## anotherlife (Nov 26, 2016)

ChrisL said:


> Oh wait, I know, guys who can't get a woman on their own.


Don't worry even 300 ponders get good booty pinchings in America.  . By the way, it shows the class of the people who emigrated to the USA, that Americans don't understand why many places operate on friendly introductions, rather than direct chat ups.  Hehehe.


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## Unkotare (Nov 26, 2016)

anotherlife said:


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Idiotic nonsense.


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## anotherlife (Nov 26, 2016)

Unkotare said:


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For this, you don't even need a passport. ... Why do I bother to reply?  Whahaha.


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## Unkotare (Nov 26, 2016)

anotherlife said:


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Apparently, to embarrass yourself. 72% of Jewish people intermarry, dummy.


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## jaydedjen110 (Dec 2, 2016)

I refuse to have kids. 

I refuse to have them because I have illnesses that I won't pass on to a child. I have a developmental disability as well. It would be selfish of me to pass that on. The world is overpopulated enough.

On top of that, I can barely take care of myself and my father. I'm 32 and I have diabetes, generalized anxiety disorder and major depressive disorder. It's a chore just to get UP in the morning, much less have to take care of a baby on top of that. 

I love kids. I just prefer not having my own.


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## ChrisL (Dec 2, 2016)

jaydedjen110 said:


> I refuse to have kids.
> 
> I refuse to have them because I have illnesses that I won't pass on to a child. I have a developmental disability as well. It would be selfish of me to pass that on. The world is overpopulated enough.
> 
> ...



I think your decision is a very thoughtful and unselfish one.


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