# Who owns or is planning to own a chevrolet volt?



## ScienceRocks (Mar 4, 2012)

Who here owns or is planning in the future to own a Chevrolet Volt? For members of usmessageboard. If you do own one can you tell us about how it's like!

Me, not in the near future!


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 4, 2012)

it's a death trap.

All small cars have low safety ratings.  If it's a "green" car, the standards are lowered.

If I recall;  2000 more deaths a year are acceptable.


Not to mention it doesn't save fuel, you have to pay to have its charger installed and all drives must be round trip since there is no place to plug it in.


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## Sallow (Mar 4, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> it's a death trap.
> 
> All small cars have low safety ratings.  If it's a "green" car, the standards are lowered.
> 
> ...



Death trap?



> The Volt and the Nissan (NSANY) Leaf electric car were both recently given Top Safety Pick Awards by the privately funded Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. The Institute, which is financed by auto insurers, conducts a different set of crash tests from those conducted by the government. To earn a Top Safety Pick Award, a vehicle must earn top scores in all of the Institute's tests.
> Volt earns top gov't safety rating - Jun. 3, 2011



Why you guys are so fixated on this car is beyond me. It's almost like the oil companies are paying yas..


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## Luissa (Mar 4, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> it's a death trap.
> 
> All small cars have low safety ratings.  If it's a "green" car, the standards are lowered.
> 
> ...



You can plug it into a household outlet, it just takes longer to charge. It also can run with the aid of gasoline


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## 007 (Mar 4, 2012)

Chevrolet Volt Production Halted for 5 Weeks Due to Slow Sales


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## Skull Pilot (Mar 4, 2012)

I'll take my F350 over a Chevy Dolt any day.


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## editec (Mar 4, 2012)

As yet nobody have ever shown us how electric cars are a solution to our energy problems.

They still demand the same amount of energy to do the work as every other car.


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## uscitizen (Mar 4, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> I'll take my F350 over a Chevy Dolt any day.



A ford fan...  figures


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## Ernie S. (Mar 4, 2012)

I'll probably buy several in the next few years. I've got this big hole out back and figure they'll be cheap fill.


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## chikenwing (Mar 4, 2012)

editec said:


> As yet nobody have ever shown us how electric cars are a solution to our energy problems.
> 
> They still demand the same amount of energy to do the work as every other car.



Bingo!! the question is how many miles per pound of coal. Its a slight of hand thing,you won't see the trick if your not paying attention.

Electric cars are part of our future,we just need to keep perspective.


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## peach174 (Mar 4, 2012)

Not when this administrations EPA is shutting down coal mines at record speed.


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## Katzndogz (Mar 4, 2012)

The Volt probably has a place.  If you live in an urban area and use your car to run to the store, get your hair done, pick up at the dry cleaners, it makes more sense.  It's just extremely expensive for such tasks and probably not worth it.


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## daveman (Mar 4, 2012)

Totally and completely impractical for me & my family.


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## Douger (Mar 4, 2012)

Too much $ for too little car.
I have a Gemcar that works out nicely where I live.
It's charged by the wind.


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## Katzndogz (Mar 4, 2012)

The government is going to pay you $10,000 to buy a Volt.

Objective Conservative: Now He Wants to Give You $10,000 to Purchase A Chevrolet Volt

If you fall for this, you will get a 1099 so you can dutifully be taxed on the 10,000.  That's what they did in the cash for clunkers program too.


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## Douger (Mar 4, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The government is going to pay you $10,000 to buy a Volt.
> 
> Objective Conservative: Now He Wants to Give You $10,000 to Purchase A Chevrolet Volt
> 
> If you fall for this, you will get a 1099 so you can dutifully be taxed on the 10,000.  That's what they did in the cash for clunkers program too.


Fuckem. I'd buy a Toyota down in Panama city.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 5, 2012)

funny

even the people that support it wouldn't buy one.


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## theDoctorisIn (Mar 5, 2012)

I don't drive a car.

But if I did, I wouldn't buy a Volt because I'm too big for it (6'5). I'd need a big yacht of a car, like a Lincoln or a Caddy.

I wouldn't be opposed to buying a Tesla Roadster though.


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## The Infidel (Mar 5, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The government is going to pay you $10,000 to buy a Volt.
> 
> Objective Conservative: Now He Wants to Give You $10,000 to Purchase A Chevrolet Volt
> 
> If you fall for this, you will get a 1099 so you can dutifully be taxed on the 10,000.  That's what they did in the cash for clunkers program too.



I would say to the OP... we have all helped purchase each and every one that has sold so far.

Gov&#8217;t subsidies for Chevy Volt up to $250,000 per car? « Hot Air

This car was a crock of shit from the word go.


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## The Infidel (Mar 5, 2012)

theDoctorisIn said:


> I don't drive a car.
> 
> But if I did, I wouldn't buy a Volt because I'm too big for it (6'5). I'd need a big yacht of a car, like a Lincoln or a Caddy.
> 
> *I wouldn't be opposed to buying a Tesla Roadster though*.



Ya wouldnt fit in it either


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## martinjlm (Apr 23, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> it's a death trap.
> 
> All small cars have low safety ratings.  If it's a "green" car, the standards are lowered.
> 
> ...



The Chevy Volt has a 5-Star crash rating.  That's the highest possible rating.  Your car?


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## Truthseeker420 (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm waiting for the electric Camaro.


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## martinjlm (Apr 23, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> it's a death trap.
> 
> .......
> Not to mention it doesn't save fuel, you have to pay to have its charger installed and all drives must be round trip since there is no place to plug it in.



as I've stated in two per threads on this topic.....

We've had the car since March 7th......we've burned 2.7 gallons of gas over 1,600+ miles.   Wanna explain how that's NOT saving gas?

Two nights ago we went to dinner Downtown.  Plugged in while we ate.  Even if we hadn't, we could easily have driven home and if the gas engine kicked in during the drive, so what?  That's the difference between the Volt and other electric cars.  The gas engine is only there as a backup system.


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## martinjlm (Apr 23, 2012)

Skull Pilot said:


> I'll take my F350 over a Chevy Dolt any day.



And I'll take my Chevy Volt over an F350 anyday.   See what we just did there?  We both exercised freedom of choice.  Your choice didn't hurt me.....my choice didn't hurt you.  Wasn't that fun?


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 23, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > I don't drive a car.
> ...



I wouldn't fit comfortably in a Lamborgini either. But I'd make do...


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## Katzndogz (Apr 23, 2012)

The Volt has a place.  It's a short runabout, good for being a second car, like the Smart Car.  I have no idea how many restaurants provide charging stations, I've never seen one.   My apartment building has no charging stations in the 3 story parking structure so a Volt is out of the question.  If I lived in my own home with a garage that I could put a charging station in, I might get one to run to the store, take in a movie, go to dinner.  The volt is a run about if you need to carry things, have the occasional load, want to take a vacation and need luggage space or camping/ sports gear, the volt could never be more than a second car.


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## martinjlm (Apr 23, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> The Volt has a place.  It's a short runabout, good for being a second car, like the Smart Car.  I have no idea how many restaurants provide charging stations, I've never seen one.   My apartment building has no charging stations in the 3 story parking structure so a Volt is out of the question.  If I lived in my own home with a garage that I could put a charging station in, I might get one to run to the store, take in a movie, go to dinner.  The volt is a run about if you need to carry things, have the occasional load, want to take a vacation and need luggage space or camping/ sports gear, the volt could never be more than a second car.



For a lot of people you are absolutely correct.  But for so many others the Volt could be an only car every bit as much as a Toyota Corolla or Ford Focus hatchback.  A lot of people have those as an only car.  If you drive 50 miles a day on average (over 90% of the US driving population drives 40 miles or less per day) the Volt can work.  What differentiates it from Corolla or Focus (at least until the Focus Electric is available) is that you can do most of your driving without burning a drop of gas.  My wife has proven that over the past 47 days.  2.7 gallons in 47 days?  The problem with that is what?

And for the couple of times a year that we take a road trip we COULD take the Volt if we wanted to, because after the electricity is used up, it gets 40 mpg on the highway.  The Focus Electric wouldn't work in that situation.  So for around town, the Volt is better than the Focus.  On the highway the Volt is better than the Focus Electric.  I think that says a lot about the car.


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## Katzndogz (Apr 23, 2012)

martinjlm said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The Volt has a place.  It's a short runabout, good for being a second car, like the Smart Car.  I have no idea how many restaurants provide charging stations, I've never seen one.   My apartment building has no charging stations in the 3 story parking structure so a Volt is out of the question.  If I lived in my own home with a garage that I could put a charging station in, I might get one to run to the store, take in a movie, go to dinner.  The volt is a run about if you need to carry things, have the occasional load, want to take a vacation and need luggage space or camping/ sports gear, the volt could never be more than a second car.
> ...



Any kind of petrol using car is going to be better than an all electric car.


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## Duped (Apr 23, 2012)

Anything Obama pushes is got to be crap!


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## westwall (Apr 23, 2012)

editec said:


> As yet nobody have ever shown us how electric cars are a solution to our energy problems.
> 
> They still demand the same amount of energy to do the work as every other car.







More in fact.


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## westwall (Apr 23, 2012)

martinjlm said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> > The Volt has a place.  It's a short runabout, good for being a second car, like the Smart Car.  I have no idea how many restaurants provide charging stations, I've never seen one.   My apartment building has no charging stations in the 3 story parking structure so a Volt is out of the question.  If I lived in my own home with a garage that I could put a charging station in, I might get one to run to the store, take in a movie, go to dinner.  The volt is a run about if you need to carry things, have the occasional load, want to take a vacation and need luggage space or camping/ sports gear, the volt could never be more than a second car.
> ...






The difference being, of course, you can buy three Focus's for the cost of one Volt.  How many decades do you have to drive it to pay back the difference?  Oh yeah, longer than the car will be around.

To me that's a rather large problem.  Not to mention your electricity comes from a fossil fuel powered plant in most cases.  So yes, you do indeed spend less on gas but you make up for it with the electricity you use, the pollution generated in making the car in the first place (significantly more than that F350 you claim to hate) and finally the toxic mess of the battery pack when it wears out in 8 years.

All in all, it's terrible from a financial POV and environmentally it's horrible.  But, hey, we always knew it wasn't about saving the planet anyway.  Didn't we.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 23, 2012)

westwall said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> > As yet nobody have ever shown us how electric cars are a solution to our energy problems.
> ...



Completely false.

A Chevy volt, in electric mode, gets the equivalent of 93 miles per gallon.


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## Ernie S. (Apr 23, 2012)

martinjlm said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > it's a death trap.
> ...


Yeah right. What's going to happen when the batteries rupture and the electrolyte gets all over you?
The government can give the Volt any rating it wants.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 23, 2012)

Ernie S. said:


> martinjlm said:
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> 
> > Two Thumbs said:
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Crash test ratings aren't given by "the government".


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## percysunshine (Apr 23, 2012)

_No, but I plan to buy one soon!_

How can I sue the manufacturer when it catches on fire if I don't purchase it first?

That is what my lawyer tells me anyway. He says I could afford a Lexus with the settlement.


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## Zander (Apr 23, 2012)

It appears that the VOLT is not even good for the environment....







> According to the EPA the 4-seat Volt is capable of driving 35 miles on its 16 kilowatt hours (kWh) of stored electric charge. The Volts gas-only fuel economy rating is 37 mpg.
> 
> Since two oxygen atoms from the atmosphere combine with each carbon atom when gasoline is burned, a gallon of gas produces about 19.6 lbs. of carbon dioxide (CO2) when burned. So when operating on gasoline, the Volt produces 0.53 lbs. of CO2 per mile (19.6 lbs. of CO2 per gallon divided by 37 miles per gallon).
> 
> ...


 Detailing the greenwashed Chevy Volt | JunkScience.com


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 23, 2012)

Zander said:


> It appears that the VOLT is not even good for the environment....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Only if you live somewhere that gets 44% or more of it's power from coal-fired power plants.


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## martinjlm (Apr 23, 2012)

westwall said:


> martinjlm said:
> 
> 
> > Katzndogz said:
> ...



We lease my wife's Volt.  It costs @ $100 more than our second choice car.  It costs us $40/month in electricity.  We've used 2.7 gallons of gas in 47 days and will probably have to fill up for the first time in <gulp> July.  So for $140 more per month than our 2nd choice vehicle, we can drive a vehicle that almost never needs gas.

As for the F350....I don't hate them.  I do prefer the F-150 or Silverado / Sierra 1500.....I just don't need or want one......And you'd have to prove that it is less polluting than even a basic car the size of a Volt, let alone a Volt. Hint.....I am an automotive engineer and I totally understand the concept of carbon emissions, well-to-wheels "-analysis" and the misconception that all electric car and hybrid batteries will end up in landfills.   They won't.  No more so than the catalytic converter that is on your F-350 or any other of the millions of cars disposed of since the late 1970's (they have chromium, Plutonium, and palladium in them, you know.  All are horrible for the environment).

For starters, batteries in most hybrids and all electric vehicles are designed to NOT deplete all of their storage capacity for reasons too mundane to go into here.  What that means is when they are no longer useable in a car, they have unused capacity that is useable as energy storage in power generating plants, windmill farms, and to support stationary generators.


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## Zander (Apr 23, 2012)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> > It appears that the VOLT is not even good for the environment....
> ...



Well, that is the national average.  Not really sure how you can defend it's "green" credibility.

At an rate, it's not a bad car. But it has major hurdles to overcome before it will be mainstream. It's not "green". It's not energy efficient. It's expensive. It's subsidized by the taxpayers,  and...It's not selling very well.  We'll see what happens....


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## westwall (Apr 23, 2012)

theDoctorisIn said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > editec said:
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The environmental cost to manufacture the battery pack is worse than the impact to make the pickup truck.  Plus the lithium is truly a limited resource (and primarily comes from China).  But hey don't let a little thing like facts get in your way.


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## westwall (Apr 23, 2012)

theDoctorisIn said:


> Zander said:
> 
> 
> > It appears that the VOLT is not even good for the environment....
> ...







Which is 95% of the world.


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## westwall (Apr 23, 2012)

martinjlm said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > martinjlm said:
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And you get to plug in at friendly restaraunts for free and you get a wonderful taxpayer payed rebate.  Your point?  As far as the other supposedly useful applications of the worn out battery pack I suggest you look into it a little further......you will be surprised that there is more propaganda than fact behind the claims.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 23, 2012)

westwall said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
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> 
> > Zander said:
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No, it's not.

It's not even half of this country.

About 1 in 3 Americans live somewhere where more than 44% of power comes from coal.


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 23, 2012)

westwall said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
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> > westwall said:
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Even if that was true (it's not), we're not talking about "environmental impact". We're talking about energy efficiency.


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## Not2BSubjugated (Apr 24, 2012)

martinjlm said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > I'll take my F350 over a Chevy Dolt any day.
> ...



If the Volt has a marketable niche and floats on its own swimming muscles, more power to your freedom of choice.  However, when my freedom of choice is pinched to pay the subsidy on everybody's Volt, then your freedom of choice actually -does- hurt me, albeit minimally.  In principle, freedom of choice isn't the only thing being exercised here by a -long- shot.


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## Not2BSubjugated (Apr 24, 2012)

From a schadenfreude kinda perspective, it is a little funny that the president's GM experiment  involves trying to boost Volt sales while the executive branch's energy policies do everything they can to hinder coal.  If we could force everyone to power their Volts with wind and (LOL!) bio-diesel from algae farms, we can make Volts way more environmentally beneficial while at the same time making petrol cars way more economical by comparison =).  It's win-win!  Smug hippies can break their shoulders patting themselves on the back for being as green as possible while rolling through the Starbucks drive-through, and Fuck-the-Environment-Because-Its-a-Democrat-Ideal partisan wing-nuts can laugh at the silly hippies for being dumb enough to pay such exorbitant fuel prices (not to mention 6 bucks for a latte).

This is either one of the silliest bits of duality out of the Obama administration thus far. . . or straight fuckin -genius-


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## martinjlm (Apr 24, 2012)

Zander said:


> It appears that the VOLT is not even good for the environment....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are assuming Volt depletes ALL of its battery to drive 35 miles.  It does not.  It uses 9.6 kWh max.  Period.  Ever.  So substituting the correct number into your equation will get you......

*The Volts emissions mileage from its stored charge is then 9.6 kWh x 1.2 lbs/kWh divided by 35 miles = 0.329 lb CO2/mile.*


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## martinjlm (Apr 27, 2012)

westwall said:


> theDoctorisIn said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
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Actually, lithium is quite plentiful, with large reserves found in Venezuela and other South American countries and also in the US.  China has far from a controlling interest in lithium.  There are other rare earth materials that China has a strong position on, but lithium is not a rare earth metal and China does not control it.


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## martinjlm (Apr 27, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> ....................
> Not to mention it doesn't save fuel, you have to pay to have its charger installed and all drives must be round trip since there is no place to plug it in.



Now that I have enough posts to link pictures, I can respond to this one.  Picture is worth a thousand words.....or maybe at least 640 of them.






This picture is taken on Day 53 of my wife's use of a Volt.  She hasn't purchased any gas yet and has only used 2.7 gallons of the 9 gallons that were in it when we took delivery.  This amounts to 640 miles for every gallon of gas used so far.

This is accomplished driving on average 33 miles per day.  Seems to me that would qualify as "saving gas".  If she had a different car that got 33 miles per gallon, she would have needed to buy 53 gallons of gas.  At $3.90/gallon, that would've been $207 spent on gas to date.  Instead we've spent about $71 on electricity.


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## percysunshine (Apr 27, 2012)

'= 0.329 lb CO2/mile.'

A slow moving tree can eat that in a second.


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## westwall (Apr 27, 2012)

martinjlm said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > theDoctorisIn said:
> ...








35 million tons worldwide is not plentiful.  It is adequate for the current needs.  In fact right now production is lagging demand.  The problem arises when lithium is used for all of the different batteries that will be made for the various green techs.  And of course as the article makes clear there is much mining involved.  Last time I looked that entails environmental damage.


"Ultimately, the disparity between resources and production should yield for some expansion.   Unfortunately, though, it's not necessarily that simple.  While simple supply and demand would mandate that if there's demand for a resource it will be harvested, lithium harvest is no simple matter.  It takes an expenditure of millions of dollars of high tech refining equipment, as well as a suitable transportation network.  Until more major parties step up to the plate with such big capital investments, prices for electric vehicles, medication, and portable electronics will likely remain relatively high."


DailyTech - Lithium Deposits Plentiful for EV Boom, But Prices Remain High


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## Old Rocks (Apr 28, 2012)

Lithium is hardly the only material that can be used in batteries. As the battery technology progresses, there will be other more common matterials, such as zinc, that are used. The present zinc-air batteries are high density batteries, if they can be made large enough for EV's, they allready exceed the present lithium batteries. There is a company right here in Portland, Oregon, working on that right now.

ReVolt


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## westwall (Apr 28, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> Lithium is hardly the only material that can be used in batteries. As the battery technology progresses, there will be other more common matterials, such as zinc, that are used. The present zinc-air batteries are high density batteries, if they can be made large enough for EV's, they allready exceed the present lithium batteries. There is a company right here in Portland, Oregon, working on that right now.
> 
> ReVolt







Zinc has to be mined too.  You're trading one form of environmental damage for another.  Can you not see that?  That is the fundamental disconnect with all of you.  You would rather invest billions and billions into developing something new, that doesn't reduce pollution, instead of making what is allready there, allready becoming less polluting then the tech that is supposed to replace it, and more importantly has allready had the billions and billions invested in developing the infrastructure.

Madness personified.


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## martinjlm (Apr 28, 2012)

Unfortunate that the "argument" keeps shifting.  First it was a question of whether the car is a viable product.  It is.  Then it was a question of whether or not the car saves gas.  It does.  Then it was a question of how much incremental electric supply cost does it drive.  Not much.  Then it was "gee, they shut the plant down so they must not be making them anymore".  The plant is back up, March was the best sales month since the car launched and April is on track to be better.

Now it's whether or not there's enough lithium in China (oops...China isn't relevant...ok...the world) to sustain production.  Two things here.....

ONE: Similar to oil, coal, neodymium, dysprosium, magnesium, palladium, platinum, and every other mined resource that is used in the content and/or manufacturing processes of *ALL* motor vehicles, the health of the "supply" depends on whether you are aligned with the buyers, producers, or consumers of the commodity and how hard it is to acquire the next level of supply.  

TWO:  There is lots of lithium in ocean beds.  Just like there's oil off shore.  At what point is it worth pursuing?  Thing is, lithium is used in much smaller amounts per vehicle than oil and because it is not consumed in the combustion process it doesn't need to be replenished every several days in millions of vehicles.


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## Old Rocks (Apr 28, 2012)

westwall said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> > Lithium is hardly the only material that can be used in batteries. As the battery technology progresses, there will be other more common matterials, such as zinc, that are used. The present zinc-air batteries are high density batteries, if they can be made large enough for EV's, they allready exceed the present lithium batteries. There is a company right here in Portland, Oregon, working on that right now.
> ...



The old idiot once again posts nonsense. Zinc or Lithium in a battery is recyclable. It is not destroyed, it does not pollute from it's use. Oil, once burned, is gone. And it pollutes in the burning. And we mine to get the materials for our present vehicles. So, Walleyes is simply stating that mining is good if the vehicle is a polluting ICE, but bad if the vehicle is a non-polluting EV. Interesting logic.


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## Old Rocks (Apr 28, 2012)

martinjlm said:


> Unfortunate that the "argument" keeps shifting.  First it was a question of whether the car is a viable product.  It is.  Then it was a question of whether or not the car saves gas.  It does.  Then it was a question of how much incremental electric supply cost does it drive.  Not much.  Then it was "gee, they shut the plant down so they must not be making them anymore".  The plant is back up, March was the best sales month since the car launched and April is on track to be better.
> 
> Now it's whether or not there's enough lithium in China (oops...China isn't relevant...ok...the world) to sustain production.  Two things here.....
> 
> ...



Interesting point, how much lithium is in the seawater itself?


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## whitehall (Apr 28, 2012)

Personally I don't trust the technology at this point in time but the radical left has turned it into a political issue. They aren't content to whine about the previous administration but now they blame right wing politics for ruining their rides on the beautiful little hummer that can get you to the grocery store about as fast as a riding mower and you only have to plug it in every thirty miles.


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## westwall (Apr 28, 2012)

martinjlm said:


> Unfortunate that the "argument" keeps shifting.  First it was a question of whether the car is a viable product.  It is.  Then it was a question of whether or not the car saves gas.  It does.  Then it was a question of how much incremental electric supply cost does it drive.  Not much.  Then it was "gee, they shut the plant down so they must not be making them anymore".  The plant is back up, March was the best sales month since the car launched and April is on track to be better.
> 
> Now it's whether or not there's enough lithium in China (oops...China isn't relevant...ok...the world) to sustain production.  Two things here.....
> 
> ...








If what you are saying is true why aren't the cars flying off the lots?  If what you are saying is true, the public would be buying them faster than they could be made.


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## martinjlm (Apr 29, 2012)

westwall said:


> martinjlm said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunate that the "argument" keeps shifting.  First it was a question of whether the car is a viable product.  It is.  Then it was a question of whether or not the car saves gas.  It does.  Then it was a question of how much incremental electric supply cost does it drive.  Not much.  Then it was "gee, they shut the plant down so they must not be making them anymore".  The plant is back up, March was the best sales month since the car launched and April is on track to be better.
> ...



I'll assume that by "the cars" you mean the Chevrolet Volt.  They are selling at pretty much the expected rate.  The plant was originally intended to produce about 30-35,000 per year.  The number was increased to around 60,000 to account for additional sales of the Opel Ampera in Europe.  BTW....Chevrolet Volt and Opel Ampera were recently named 2012 European Car of the Year.  First time ever for an American car.  http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/03/volt-ampera-europe-car-year/  But I digress...back to your question...

Since the plant was temporarily idled then restarted, Volts have been selling very well.  About 2,400 sold in March.  April is not over yet, but it is expected to do even better in April.  In March, only the Prius outsold the Volt in the category of hybrid and/or electric vehicles.  In other words, Volt outsold Civic Hybrid, Fusion Hybrid, Sonata Hybrid, Escape Hybrid, Nissan Leaf (which also gets a $7,500 tax credit....why no conversation on that?).  Volt has a sticker price higher than all of these vehicles, yet it outsold all of them and appears to be gaining momentum.

That answer your question?


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## martinjlm (Apr 29, 2012)

Old Rocks said:


> martinjlm said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunate that the "argument" keeps shifting.  First it was a question of whether the car is a viable product.  It is.  Then it was a question of whether or not the car saves gas.  It does.  Then it was a question of how much incremental electric supply cost does it drive.  Not much.  Then it was "gee, they shut the plant down so they must not be making them anymore".  The plant is back up, March was the best sales month since the car launched and April is on track to be better.
> ...



I don't think it is in the seawater.  I think it is in the mineral deposits in the ocean floor.  Could be wrong on this.  It was info I came across a while ago while looking for something else.


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## martinjlm (Apr 29, 2012)

Wow!  Even Fox News had a few good words for Volt....(checks calendar....nope, not April 1st)

Chevy Volt sales double in March | Fox News


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## westwall (Apr 29, 2012)

martinjlm said:


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This is how many regular (best sellers in class) cars sold in March in 2011 and 2012.  Four of the cars sold TEN TIMES the number EACH.  And you think 2,700 cars in a month is good?  Nice to know your expectations are so low.  You must work for Chevy.



Ford Focus

28,293

17,178

64.7



Toyota Corolla

28,289

30,234

-6.4



Honda Civic

28,199

31,213

-10.7



Chevrolet Cruze

21,607

18,018

19.9



Hyundai Elantra

19,681

19,255

2.2



Volkswagen Jetta

14,966

16,969

-11.8



Nissan Sentra

14,092

17,851

-21.1



Mazda3

13,235

12,467

6.2





Read more: Ford Focus Inches Out Toyota Corolla For Compact Sales Win in March - WOT on Motor Trend


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## westwall (Apr 29, 2012)

martinjlm said:


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Yes, it is in the sea water as are almost all the other elements.

Li is at around 0.170 ppm at 3.5% salinity.


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## martinjlm (Apr 29, 2012)

westwall said:


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The Chevy Volt was never intended to win the sales volume crown.  It has a specific part of the market, just as the Chevrolet Corvette (which the Volt outsold) and the Nissan 370Z (which the Volt outsold) have specific targeted customer bases.  Nobody's talking about canceling those car programs because they were outsold by Volt.  Just like nobody is talking about canceling Volt because Corolla sells more.  If you've been reading my posts (apparently you have) you would notice that I've pointed out that the MOST Volt was ever expecting to sell globally (they sell in China and under 3 different brands in Europe, Chevy, Opel, and Vauxhall) is 60,000.  Meaning there was obviously not an intent to sell more than more mainstream products.

FWIW....I do not work for Chevrolet....I do work in the auto industry....I am acquainted with a number of people on the Volt program.  And many other vehicle programs for that matter.  Volt is just my favorite among the many and I understand and appreciate the product enough to put my money on one.


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## martinjlm (Apr 29, 2012)

westwall said:


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The lithium that would be harvested is in the mineral deposits in the ocean beds.  Since water is a perfect solvent, the lithium in the seawater is a direct result of natural erosion of the lithium in the ocean bed.  This is like saying that the reason there is some light in the bedroom is the fact that the closet light was left on.  The light source is in the closet (ocean bed).  Evidence that it is there is the presence of trace amounts of light (lithium) in the bedroom (seawater).


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## westwall (Apr 29, 2012)

martinjlm said:


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You need to take some science classes my friend.  The ocean floor is made of mud that has been deposited over millions of years from continental runoff.  There are exceptions such as the mineral deposits around black smokers and the like but those are very localised, and of course the Mid Atlantic Ridge and other volcanic plate boundaries will also have localised mineral deposits.

But, the majority of minerals found in the deep sea (such as the manganese nodules) were accreted from the ocean water around a seed of some sort and then deposited on the ocean floor.


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## westwall (Apr 29, 2012)

martinjlm said:


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The yearly average production of the Corvette is around 40k.  The average yearly production of the 370Z is unknown, the total US production for 2009 was only 524 (total sales for all Z models in 2009 was a little over 13,000) so I would hope a full production car would outsell a very limited production model.  I also love how you are comparing an Edsel (basically) with a rocket ship.  The Volt is a low speed family car, the Z series and the Vette are rated to 200 mph+ and are targeted at a very select clientele as you noted.

And, lets look at the real reason the Volt's sales are as high as they ended up......GE is ordering 25,000 of them for it's fleet of company owned vehicles.  So the UAW (which is a majority share holder in GM now) whines to Obama about how they are losing their ass, so Obama tells his buddies at GE (who donated loads to his campaign and surprise surprise paid no corporate tax last year...or the year before) are "encouraged" to buy the Volt to help bolster its sales figures.

Oh, yeah, i forgot to mention the Feds are buying them too.  Originally the first 100, now more are in the pipeline.

Yep, no collusion or waste of taxpayer dollars there.

GE to buy 25K electric fleet vehicles &#8211; This Just In - CNN.com Blogs


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## RGR (Apr 30, 2012)

westwall said:


> The Volt is a low speed family car.......



Yeah, and at low speeds of 80mph, the thing is GREAT! Like a Vette on public roads is really what the average commuter needs to get to and from work?

And at low speeds of 80mph, the Volt is amazingly quiet. Admittedly, it only fits 4 people and doesn't require $4/gal gas for the commuting 75% of Americans do, but given the choice between it and a Vette, I say get both! One for doing all the real world, grocery getting, commuting, running errands which can all be done on electrical power, and save the Vette for track days on the weekends! WOOT!


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## westwall (Apr 30, 2012)

RGR said:


> westwall said:
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For one third the price of the Volt I can get a real nice turbo diesel that gets 68 mpg and over the life of both cars (which is basically unlimited with the TDI assuming regular maintenance) I will save more than 5 times as much with the diesel as I would with the Volt.  In point of fact, as the Volt will maximum last 8 years with normal usage it will never pay itself off unless gasoline gets to around 12 bucks a gallon.


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## martinjlm (Apr 30, 2012)

westwall said:


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And I would not criticize you if you did.  I would be happy for you if you enjoyed it.  Now let me and the other people who understand the car enjoy our Volts without having to deal with you distorting the facts around a car that we have real world experience with everyday.


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## westwall (Apr 30, 2012)

martinjlm said:


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Happily!  However, stop trying to force me and mine into buying your electric cars.  Deal?


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## theDoctorisIn (Apr 30, 2012)

westwall said:


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Who has been trying to force you to buy an electric car?


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## martinjlm (May 1, 2012)

westwall said:


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Quote from any of my posts where I did.  Shouldn't be that tough.  I only have about 25 posts.  Half of them correcting your erroneous "facts".

BTW - I give you credit for correctly referring to it as an electric car.  I'm constantly surprised at how so many people think it's a hybrid.


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## Old Rocks (May 1, 2012)

westwall said:


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Nobody is trying to force you to buy an electric, dumb ass. At some point, as the battery technology improves, it will simply make more sense economically to buy one. Particularly if one generates their own electricity.


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## Katzndogz (May 1, 2012)

The electric cars of the future will generate their own electricity from unicorn scat.


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## westwall (May 1, 2012)

martinjlm said:


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You havn't.  And for that I thank you.  However, you benefit from the largesse of the taxpayers.  I would love it if the taxpayers were free from giving their money to anybody.  No corporation or business entity should recieve taxpayer monies save in very specific and extreme circumstances.


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## westwall (May 1, 2012)

theDoctorisIn said:


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When something is desired mandates are not needed.  Are they.

"SAN FRANCISCO   Seeking to influence other states and Washington, California air regulators passed sweeping auto emission standards Friday that include a mandate to have 1.4 million electric and hybrid vehicles on state roads by 2025."

Read more: California passes sweeping auto emission standards | Fox News


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