# Michael Vick released



## manifold

Michael Vick was released this morning from federal custody.

When and if he'll return to the NFL is to be determined.

What are your thoughts about that?


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## strollingbones

he should still be in jail...he should never be allowed to play football...i hope any team that hires him...faces the full force of a boycott and each time vic plays...i hope fans hiss and boo him....stick a fork in him...he should be done


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## hjmick

He's damaged goods. I'd be surprised if anyone picks him up save the Raiders. Of course, that is dependent on whether or not Roger Goodell reinstates him...


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## manifold

SB,

So as far as you're concerned, he can never pay his debt to society... ever?


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## strollingbones

he is a thug dear...why tolerate that type of behavior...thugs dont change.,....and no as far as i am concerned he cannot pay his debt to society by doing a small bit of time in jail then coming back and making millions in football....no ...if he is allowed to do that...says a lot about our society


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## Dis

Who is he, and what'd he do?  (Short version, please - I don't give a rip about sports - I just want to decide if I think he can ever repay his debt to society)


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## strollingbones

he was the one in va with the dog fighting ring....his mansion had hidden rings etc....and manie you are hardly objective here...you hate pitts


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## Modbert

He paid his debt to society. Therefore, he should be able to play in the NFL again. He probably won't for at least halfway through the season and it won't be a starting QB position though.


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## manifold

Dis said:


> Who is he, and what'd he do?  (Short version, please - I don't give a rip about sports - I just want to decide if I think he can ever repay his debt to society)



Google Help for special-ed Dis


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## Dis

strollingbones said:


> he was the one in va with the dog fighting ring....his mansion had hidden rings etc....and manie you are hardly objective here...you hate pitts



What're you talking about?  I've never said I hated any dog.  I've had some form of pet my entire life.

When discussing pits, I said there are some people that should not own them.  I still stand by that.


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## Dis

manifold said:


> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is he, and what'd he do?  (Short version, please - I don't give a rip about sports - I just want to decide if I think he can ever repay his debt to society)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Help for special-ed Dis
Click to expand...


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## manifold

strollingbones said:


> he is a thug dear...why tolerate that type of behavior...thugs dont change.,....and no as far as i am concerned he cannot pay his debt to society by doing a small bit of time in jail then coming back and making millions in football....no ...if he is allowed to do that...says a lot about our society



Yeah, I'd sure hate to be part of a society that values forgiveness.


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## Dis

Short of murder, and/or rape, most debts to society can be repaid.


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## ba1614

Dis said:


> Short of murder, and/or rape, most debts to society can be repaid.





 He'll get a shot, and I hope he makes the best of it.


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## Dis

I think if he does get offered a contract, it'll be at a much lower rate of pay than he could expect if he hadn't been a dumbshit.  Personally, I don't think 23 months behind bars is enough to teach someone a lesson.  You have  to be one brutal mother fucker to set up something like that...


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## manifold

Dis said:


> Short of murder, and/or rape, most debts to society can be repaid.



Mike Tyson fought again after his release, so I guess rape can be repaid too.

But nobody will sign Barry Bonds, so I guess _alleged_ steriod use is still worse.


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## Dis

manifold said:


> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Short of murder, and/or rape, most debts to society can be repaid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike Tyson fought again after his release, so I guess rape can be repaid too.
> 
> But nobody will sign Barry Bonds, so I guess _alleged_ steriod use is still worse.
Click to expand...


People are fickle.. I think it's dependent on how famous you were before you were convicted.. Shock value may have a lot to do with it, too..


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## chanel

Maybe he'll get a gazillion dollar contract and give 60 percent to the govt to pay for illegal alien healthcare. Or 2 lbs of sliced ham.


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## pete

Throw him in a cage with a hungry pit bull and if he makes it out ...


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## Dis

pete said:


> Throw him in a cage with a hungry pit bull and if he makes it out ...



Not bad.. Make it two pits.. If he makes it out alive in under 10 minutes, he's repaid his debt to society.


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## asgardshill

Vick has paid his debt to society and should be released from prison.  I don't see any NFL team taking him on for several years though, because his brand name is right up there with Adolf Eichmann and no NFL team wants the PR disaster/opposing fans showering the field with Milk Bones/etc. that would inevitably ensue if he were signed.

I hope he gets a gig cleaning up dog crap at the local animal shelter though.  A man's gotta eat.


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## Anguille

manifold said:


> Michael Vick was released this morning from federal custody.
> 
> When and if he'll return to the NFL is to be determined.
> 
> What are your thoughts about that?


While part of me would like to see him rot in a dungeon for the rest of his life another part hopes that he has had time to see the error of his ways and has been rehabilitated. 

It's been shown that it's much much easier to rehabilitate vicious dogs than vicious humans, but I have seen people who hated dogs like he must have, actually come around to being the biggest dog lovers you could imagine. It could happen to him too. Meanwhile, I do think he should not be allowed to own any dogs or be near dogs unsupervised till it's clear he could be trusted again. 

As for his football career, who gives fuck. It's an all around stupid "sport" anyway.


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## pete

Anguille said:


> As for his football career, who gives fuck. It's an all around stupid "sport" anyway.



Definitely *ruined* in the past years and nothing like it used to be!!!


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## noose4

i dont want him on the team i root for, i hope no team picks him up and he has to get a regular job like us non athletically talented types.


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## strollingbones

good comment about showing up with milk bones etc...

dis it is manie who hates pitts and thinks they should be banned....see the 'manie you are hardly objective"

it would be a pr nightmare for any team that signs him....gonna be hard to spill with animal lovers...and peta will be right there...his marketablity is zero you wont see vick on your wheaties


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## Sunni Man

All Michael Vick did was kill some dogs.

Heck, they kill and eat dogs in half of the countries of the world.


Donte Stallworth was DWI and killed a man.

He recieved ONE month in jail.


Yet Vick gets 23 months in prison for doggie homocide

This is insane!!!


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## Baruch Menachem

He has been in jail for two years.  He is not fit enough to play, and probably won't ever be again.

I wouldn't want him if I were the marketing guy at any team.


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## Big Black Dog

I think what Vick did was deplorable and a very ugly crime.  However, he has paid his dues to society so everybody should get off his back.


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## Sunni Man

Big Black Dog said:


> I think what Vick did was deplorable and a very ugly crime.  However, he has paid his dues to society so everybody should get off his back.


You are totally right.

He has paid his debt to society.

If he was a plumber or mechanic.

He would be allowed to resume his livelyhood.


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## Anguille

Sunni Man said:


> All Michael Vick did was kill some dogs.
> 
> Heck, they kill and eat dogs in half of the countries of the world.
> 
> 
> Donte Stallworth was DWI and killed a man.
> 
> He recieved ONE month in jail.
> 
> 
> Yet Vick gets 23 months in prison for doggie homocide
> 
> This is insane!!!


He did more than just kill dogs, he tortured them. I think 23 months was too short a time. I don't know the circumstances of Donte Stalworth's crime so I can't compare.


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## manifold

strollingbones said:


> good comment about showing up with milk bones etc...
> 
> dis it is manie who hates pitts and thinks they should be banned....see the 'manie you are hardly objective"
> 
> it would be a pr nightmare for any team that signs him....gonna be hard to spill with animal lovers...and peta will be right there...his marketablity is zero you wont see vick on your wheaties



I never said I hate pits or that they should be banned.  I'm undecided on the topic of banning them... pretty much the reason why I occassionally start threads about it.


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## Anguille

Sunni Man said:


> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what Vick did was deplorable and a very ugly crime.  However, he has paid his dues to society so everybody should get off his back.
> 
> 
> 
> You are totally right.
> 
> He has paid his debt to society.
> 
> If he was a plumber or mechanic.
> 
> He would be allowed to resume his livelyhood.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well his livelihood requires he bring in the fans and if it doesn't look like he will, why should anybody be obliged to hire him?


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## strollingbones

o please niggra...you have said they are killer dogs that are unsafe .....duh


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## Anguille

manifold said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> good comment about showing up with milk bones etc...
> 
> dis it is manie who hates pitts and thinks they should be banned....see the 'manie you are hardly objective"
> 
> it would be a pr nightmare for any team that signs him....gonna be hard to spill with animal lovers...and peta will be right there...his marketablity is zero you wont see vick on your wheaties
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said I hate pits or that they should be banned.  I'm undecided on the topic of banning them... pretty much the reason why I occassionally start threads about it.
Click to expand...

Is that the only reason?


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## manifold

strollingbones said:


> o please niggra...you have said they are killer dogs that are unsafe .....duh



Sometimes I forget how slow and literal you can be.


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## strollingbones

you calling me slow?  i iz special.


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## concept

I don't really care but he's paid his debt.


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## Sunni Man

Anguille said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what Vick did was deplorable and a very ugly crime.  However, he has paid his dues to society so everybody should get off his back.
> 
> 
> 
> You are totally right.
> 
> He has paid his debt to society.
> 
> If he was a plumber or mechanic.
> 
> He would be allowed to resume his livelyhood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, well his livelihood requires he bring in the fans and if it doesn't look like he will, why should anybody be obliged to hire him?
Click to expand...

I agree

If he can't do what the job requires. He shouldn't be hired.

I just disagree with people who say he shouldn't be allowed to play at all.


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## SableRay

I want this man to earn an honest living.  Let him play football.   What good was served by sending him to prison?   Maybe the Detroit Lions will select him.


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## concept

SableRay said:


> I want this man to earn an honest living.  Let him play football.   What good was served by sending him to prison?   Maybe the Detroit Lions will select him.



He broke the law?


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## Anguille

Sunni Man said:


> I just disagree with people who say he shouldn't be allowed to play at all.



I also disagree with that as you do. He paid his debt to society, even if I think the sentence was too lenient, I respect our justice system and employers should too when considering employing an excon..


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## chanel

If he was a mechanic or a plumber he night get a job but if people knew they might not use him. If he was a teacher or a cop do you think the public would accept "he's paid his dies"? Of course not. He's a fucking athlete and in this country they can torture animals, beat their wives, and threaten people with guns and still the fans will cheer and donate to their multi million dollar contracts..

Makes me sick


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## Gunny

strollingbones said:


> he should still be in jail...he should never be allowed to play football...i hope any team that hires him...faces the full force of a boycott and each time vic plays...i hope fans hiss and boo him....stick a fork in him...he should be done



That's bullshit.  He served his time for his crime and there's NO reason he should not be allowed to pursue a career.


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## Nevadamedic

strollingbones said:


> he should still be in jail...he should never be allowed to play football...i hope any team that hires him...faces the full force of a boycott and each time vic plays...i hope fans hiss and boo him....stick a fork in him...he should be done



In total agreement here, although they should do more then stick a fork in him. 

I for one would love to see him Waterboarded then hit with a Tazer while soaking wet. Then maybe lay him on the ground naked and repeatedly smash his balls with a hammer, I think you guys get my point.


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## Nevadamedic

Dis said:


> Who is he, and what'd he do?  (Short version, please - I don't give a rip about sports - I just want to decide if I think he can ever repay his debt to society)



He tortured and murdered dogs.


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## hjmick

Holy crap, look what the cat dragged in! How's tricks NM?


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## Dr Grump

Gunny said:


> That's bullshit.  He served his time for his crime and there's NO reason he should not be allowed to pursue a career.



I concur....


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## Nevadamedic

Baruch Menachem said:


> He has been in jail for two years.  He is not fit enough to play, and probably won't ever be again.
> 
> I wouldn't want him if I were the marketing guy at any team.



Actually people usually are in better shape when they get out of prison. My brothers a Corrections Officer and he said most of the people in there spend most of their time hitting the weights and working out. I guarantee he is in better shape then when he went in.


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## Gunny

Dis said:


> pete said:
> 
> 
> 
> Throw him in a cage with a hungry pit bull and if he makes it out ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not bad.. Make it two pits.. If he makes it out alive in under 10 minutes, he's repaid his debt to society.
Click to expand...


You people are fucking ridiculous.

He was just kept in a cage for 2 years of his prime as a pro athlete.  I don't fee sorry for him, but it isn't like he didn't lose a whole Hell of a lot the past 2 years.  Only more money than most of us will likely make in a lifetime.

The guy is/was uber-wealthy from the NFL alone.  He didn't need to do this.  The fact is, fighting animals is acceptable among a certain segment of our society and they don't think anything is really wrong with it.  

Just like anything else, you people that place the lives of animals above human beings and act all outraged wanted to crucify the person that got caught, but not do a damned thing about the reason behind his actions.


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## Gunny

asgardshill said:


> Vick has paid his debt to society and should be released from prison.  I don't see any NFL team taking him on for several years though, because his brand name is right up there with Adolf Eichmann and no NFL team wants the PR disaster/opposing fans showering the field with Milk Bones/etc. that would inevitably ensue if he were signed.
> 
> I hope he gets a gig cleaning up dog crap at the local animal shelter though.  A man's gotta eat.



Jerry Jones will hire him.  Well, except Jerry Jones has yet to figure out Romo is another Danny White -- get to the big game and choke.


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## Gunny

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Michael Vick was released this morning from federal custody.
> 
> When and if he'll return to the NFL is to be determined.
> 
> What are your thoughts about that?
> 
> 
> 
> While part of me would like to see him rot in a dungeon for the rest of his life another part hopes that he has had time to see the error of his ways and has been rehabilitated.
> 
> It's been shown that it's much much easier to rehabilitate vicious dogs than vicious humans, but I have seen people who hated dogs like he must have, actually come around to being the biggest dog lovers you could imagine. It could happen to him too. Meanwhile, I do think he should not be allowed to own any dogs or be near dogs unsupervised till it's clear he could be trusted again.
> 
> As for his football career, who gives fuck. It's an all around stupid "sport" anyway.
Click to expand...


People who fight dogs do not hate them.  They are tools -- a means to an end.


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## Gunny

strollingbones said:


> good comment about showing up with milk bones etc...
> 
> dis it is manie who hates pitts and thinks they should be banned....see the 'manie you are hardly objective"
> 
> it would be a pr nightmare for any team that signs him....gonna be hard to spill with animal lovers...and peta will be right there...his marketablity is zero you wont see vick on your wheaties



It isn't just mani.  Pit bulls are bred for nothing BUT pit fighting; hence, the name "pit" bull.  They're inbred, vicious and unpredictable, and serve no real function as domesticated animals EXCEPT to pit fight.

They should be banned.  Perhaps you need to face off against one in the street to see the light?  Whether or not the owner was irresponsible is irrelevant to the fact that there's nothing between you and that dog at the time but air.


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## asgardshill

Gunny said:


> asgardshill said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vick has paid his debt to society and should be released from prison.  I don't see any NFL team taking him on for several years though, because his brand name is right up there with Adolf Eichmann and no NFL team wants the PR disaster/opposing fans showering the field with Milk Bones/etc. that would inevitably ensue if he were signed.
> 
> I hope he gets a gig cleaning up dog crap at the local animal shelter though.  A man's gotta eat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jerry Jones will hire him.  Well, except Jerry Jones has yet to figure out Romo is another Danny White -- get to the big game and choke.
Click to expand...


Naah - I don't see it.  Jones got burned badly by the antics of TO and Pacman Jones - I just don't see him taking a chance on another "character" like Vick.  Of course, Jerry Jones has done some mind-numbingly stupid things before, so what do I know?


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## Gunny

Anguille said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> All Michael Vick did was kill some dogs.
> 
> Heck, they kill and eat dogs in half of the countries of the world.
> 
> 
> Donte Stallworth was DWI and killed a man.
> 
> He recieved ONE month in jail.
> 
> 
> Yet Vick gets 23 months in prison for doggie homocide
> 
> This is insane!!!
> 
> 
> 
> He did more than just kill dogs, he tortured them. I think 23 months was too short a time. I don't know the circumstances of Donte Stalworth's crime so I can't compare.
Click to expand...


He didn't do anything more to them than any other pit breeders do.  All dogs trained to pit fight are what you called "tortured" just to make them as vicious as possible, and if they lose, they are killed.


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## Gunny

Anguille said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big Black Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what Vick did was deplorable and a very ugly crime.  However, he has paid his dues to society so everybody should get off his back.
> 
> 
> 
> You are totally right.
> 
> He has paid his debt to society.
> 
> If he was a plumber or mechanic.
> 
> He would be allowed to resume his livelyhood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, well his livelihood requires he bring in the fans and if it doesn't look like he will, why should anybody be obliged to hire him?
Click to expand...


No one is obliged to hire him.  However, if he is fit and can pass tryouts, no one should be standing in his way of making a living either on some bogus, holier than thou moral stance.  If his team wins, he'll bring in the fans.


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## Gunny

strollingbones said:


> o please niggra...you have said they are killer dogs that are unsafe .....duh



They are.


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## Gunny

chanel said:


> If he was a mechanic or a plumber he night get a job but if people knew they might not use him. If he was a teacher or a cop do you think the public would accept "he's paid his dies"? Of course not. He's a fucking athlete and in this country they can torture animals, beat their wives, and threaten people with guns and still the fans will cheer and donate to their multi million dollar contracts..
> 
> Makes me sick



Where are you from?  If he was a mechanic or a plumber or an electrician, he'd get a job based on his ability to perform in his chosen trade.  Nobody around here'd give a rat's ass if he fought dogs.

Comparing torturing animals to wife beating and threatening people with guns is just a little too much drama.  There is no comparison.


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## Gunny

Nevadamedic said:


> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is he, and what'd he do?  (Short version, please - I don't give a rip about sports - I just want to decide if I think he can ever repay his debt to society)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He tortured and murdered dogs.
Click to expand...


There is no such thing as "murdering" a dog.


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## Gunny

asgardshill said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asgardshill said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vick has paid his debt to society and should be released from prison.  I don't see any NFL team taking him on for several years though, because his brand name is right up there with Adolf Eichmann and no NFL team wants the PR disaster/opposing fans showering the field with Milk Bones/etc. that would inevitably ensue if he were signed.
> 
> I hope he gets a gig cleaning up dog crap at the local animal shelter though.  A man's gotta eat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jerry Jones will hire him.  Well, except Jerry Jones has yet to figure out Romo is another Danny White -- get to the big game and choke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Naah - I don't see it.  Jones got burned badly by the antics of TO and Pacman Jones - I just don't see him taking a chance on another "character" like Vick.  Of course, Jerry Jones has done some mind-numbingly stupid things before, so what do I know?
Click to expand...


I only don't see it because Jones doesn't think he needs a new and better QB.  He would have no qualms otherwise.  He throws human beings in the pit annually.  Why would he give a shit about one of them throwing dogs in a pit?


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## asgardshill

Gunny said:


> He throws human beings in the pit annually.  Why would he give a shit about one of them throwing dogs in a pit?



PR.  The press would eat him alive if he hired Vick. Legions of anti-fans would cover the turf at that nice new stadium of his with Milk Bones during home games, and _Who Let The Dogs Out_ would ring from every PA system at every road game the Cowboys played.  At this point of his tenure, Jerry Jones is all about the legacy thing, and hiring Vick won't help him get to Canton OH.

Look, if Michael Vick, Adolf Hitler and I were stuck together in an elevator and I had a gun with 6 rounds in the magazine locked and loaded, I'd empty every one into Hitler then shove the gun up his ass as he lay dying. I don't hate Michael Vick and I'm glad he's served his sentence and is out of the joint. He's paid the public price for a monumentally stupid (if arguably not evil) act.  But the ewww factor amongst the American public about what he did, plus his *lying to the NFL* about what he did, makes it a long shot at best that he'll ever play another down anywhere in the US again.


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## SableRay

concept said:


> SableRay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want this man to earn an honest living.  Let him play football.   What good was served by sending him to prison?   Maybe the Detroit Lions will select him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He broke the law?
Click to expand...

Whippee  Just like Martha Stewart's prison time, what was the benefit of the imprisonment?


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## Gunny

SableRay said:


> concept said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SableRay said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want this man to earn an honest living.  Let him play football.   What good was served by sending him to prison?   Maybe the Detroit Lions will select him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He broke the law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whippee  Just like Martha Stewart's prison time, what was the benefit of the imprisonment?
Click to expand...


Nothing.  Dogfighting continues unabated.  But it sure showed that NFL player what was what, huh?


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## Sarah G

He will never play again, it will be a long time before he can even walk down the street without people wanting to hurt him.  

He's like OJ in a sense, he's (was) walking free but nobody thinks he's innocent.  I hope he's saved at least some of his money for a rainy day.


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## editec

manifold said:


> Michael Vick was released this morning from federal custody.
> 
> When and if he'll return to the NFL is to be determined.
> 
> What are your thoughts about that?


 
Let loose the hounds of revenge.


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## Gunny

Sarah G said:


> He will never play again, it will be a long time before he can even walk down the street without people wanting to hurt him.
> 
> He's like OJ in a sense, he's (was) walking free but nobody thinks he's innocent.  I hope he's saved at least some of his money for a rainy day.



You are wrong.  He'll play again unless the NFL tries to hide behind its faux morality and blackballs him.  

Another comparison of dogfighting to murdering human beings.  GMAFB.


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## Gunny

editec said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Michael Vick was released this morning from federal custody.
> 
> When and if he'll return to the NFL is to be determined.
> 
> What are your thoughts about that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let loose the hounds of revenge.
Click to expand...


No shit.  This thread is quite eye-opening when it comes to retards ...


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## Article 15

Some people just aren't content and think Vick should be further punished?!

I heard a PETA representative get interviewed about Vick on the radio tonight.  The woman wanted Vick to be evaluated by a doctors and have medical tests done on him to ensure that he was REALLY remorseful for what he did before he could be considered to play football again.  Seriously.

These people are nuts, IMO.

Vick has paid his debt to society.  Let the man play.


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## Dis

Gunny said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Michael Vick was released this morning from federal custody.
> 
> When and if he'll return to the NFL is to be determined.
> 
> What are your thoughts about that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let loose the hounds of revenge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No shit.  This thread is quite eye-opening when it comes to retards ...
Click to expand...


Just because somebody thinks dog fighting is cruel, and that the person taking part in it should be punished for more than just 23 lousy months behind bars, doesn't make them retarded.

If he was so rich that he didn't need to do it, why did he?  

If it's acceptable in certain cultures, then move to where it's acceptable.

Odds are good he'll just turn around and do it again...


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## Sarah G

Gunny said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> He will never play again, it will be a long time before he can even walk down the street without people wanting to hurt him.
> 
> He's like OJ in a sense, he's (was) walking free but nobody thinks he's innocent.  I hope he's saved at least some of his money for a rainy day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong.  He'll play again unless the NFL tries to hide behind its faux morality and blackballs him.
> 
> Another comparison of dogfighting to murdering human beings.  GMAFB.
Click to expand...


I don't even think he could be effective at this point, he's 29 and won't play at least for this season.  Who really wants to take on his baggage and for what benefit?


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## Gunny

Article 15 said:


> Some people just aren't content and think Vick should be further punished?!
> 
> I heard a PETA representative get interviewed about Vick on the radio tonight.  The woman wanted Vick to be evaluated by a doctors and have medical tests done on him to ensure that he was REALLY remorseful for what he did before he could be considered to play football again.  Seriously.
> 
> These people are nuts, IMO.
> 
> Vick has paid his debt to society.  Let the man play.



  Really remorseful, huh?  Fuck them.  What if he isn't?  Who gives a rat's ass?  Remorse, as far as I am aware, is not a legal requirement for paying one's debt to society.


----------



## strollingbones

he is thug who can play football....so he can do anything he wishes in the eyes of stupid ass americans....who hold no one to any standards...funny how you hold such high moral thresholds and yet...think it is okay to forgive thugs who play sports...ie....kobe and the rest of them.....americans amaze me with their double standards for jocks...its starts in high school and goes all the way up....just like turtles.


----------



## Gunny

Dis said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let loose the hounds of revenge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No shit.  This thread is quite eye-opening when it comes to retards ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because somebody thinks dog fighting is cruel, and that the person taking part in it should be punished for more than just 23 lousy months behind bars, doesn't make them retarded.
> 
> If he was so rich that he didn't need to do it, why did he?
> 
> If it's acceptable in certain cultures, then move to where it's acceptable.
> 
> Odds are good he'll just turn around and do it again...
Click to expand...


Got news for you ... he and YOU live where it's acceptable.  Open your eyes.  Got mexicans?  You got cock-and-dog-fighting.  Period.   Perhaps you should move somewhere where it's NOT acceptable? 

And yeah, 23 months behind bars when most people busted for it serve little to no time and only pay a fine is bullshit.  he got harsher punishment for his celebrity.  

And yeah, when the same people in this thread never have anything to say about people being murdered, but get their panties in a wad over vicious animals that shouldn't exist to begin with, I'd call that retarded.


----------



## Gunny

Sarah G said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> He will never play again, it will be a long time before he can even walk down the street without people wanting to hurt him.
> 
> He's like OJ in a sense, he's (was) walking free but nobody thinks he's innocent.  I hope he's saved at least some of his money for a rainy day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong.  He'll play again unless the NFL tries to hide behind its faux morality and blackballs him.
> 
> Another comparison of dogfighting to murdering human beings.  GMAFB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't even think he could be effective at this point, he's 29 and won't play at least for this season.  Who really wants to take on his baggage and for what benefit?
Click to expand...


You sure assume a lot.  All he's got to do is show up at camp this summer and pass tryouts and he's playing this year.  29 is not old for an NFL QB anymore and if you think NFL owners care about his "baggage", you need to think again.  They care about $.  Wins mean a lot more $, and earns a LOT more forgiveness.


----------



## strollingbones

vicious animals are made by men like vick....and it should not matter if he plays football or is a lowly mexican.....blood sports are simply that....and thugs are the ones who enjoy them...be it a thug on the school board or in sports....are these really the people you want kids to look up to?


----------



## strollingbones

all sports owners are after money......as any other business owner is.....but the consumer can still elect to boycott etc.....


----------



## Dis

Gunny said:


> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> No shit.  This thread is quite eye-opening when it comes to retards ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because somebody thinks dog fighting is cruel, and that the person taking part in it should be punished for more than just 23 lousy months behind bars, doesn't make them retarded.
> 
> If he was so rich that he didn't need to do it, why did he?
> 
> If it's acceptable in certain cultures, then move to where it's acceptable.
> 
> Odds are good he'll just turn around and do it again...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Got news for you ... he and YOU live where it's acceptable.  Open your eyes.  *Got mexicans?*  You got cock-and-dog-fighting.  Period.   Perhaps you should move somewhere where it's NOT acceptable?
> 
> And yeah, 23 months behind bars when most people busted for it serve little to no time and only pay a fine is bullshit.  he got harsher punishment for his celebrity.
> 
> And yeah, when the same people in this thread never have anything to say about people being murdered, but get their panties in a wad over vicious animals that shouldn't exist to begin with, I'd call that retarded.
Click to expand...


Nope.  No blacks, either.  Plain old god-fearing white city folk, and farmers.   Cocks?  Yes.  Dogs?  Yes.  They're not thrown into pens together for the entertainment of some bored jackass.  Pardon me for not finding barbaric behavior acceptable. I thought we were a little more civilized than that.


----------



## strollingbones

i would not spend one time on any merchanising etc that a team puts out that signs this man....many others feel the same...many dont....its a gamble to sign him


----------



## Gunny

strollingbones said:


> he is thug who can play football....so he can do anything he wishes in the eyes of stupid ass americans....who hold no one to any standards...funny how you hold such high moral thresholds and yet...think it is okay to forgive thugs who play sports...ie....kobe and the rest of them.....americans amaze me with their double standards for jocks...its starts in high school and goes all the way up....just like turtles.



He's a thug because he was part of  dogfighting ring?  Bullshit.

I have no double standard for jocks.  But you can address the double standard of the sentence he got because of his celebrity compared to the usual 30-60 days and a fine.

Unlike most of the rest of you bleeding hearts for vicious and cruel animals that exist to do one thing -- pit fight -- I haven't rendered a moral judgment.  

I'm saying he paid his debt as was handed out by the court.  The sentence didn't include "and to be persecuted for the rest of your natural life by bleeding hearts."


----------



## Dis

Gunny said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> he is thug who can play football....so he can do anything he wishes in the eyes of stupid ass americans....who hold no one to any standards...funny how you hold such high moral thresholds and yet...think it is okay to forgive thugs who play sports...ie....kobe and the rest of them.....americans amaze me with their double standards for jocks...its starts in high school and goes all the way up....just like turtles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's a thug because he was part of  dogfighting ring?  Bullshit.
> 
> I have no double standard for jocks.  But you can address the double standard of the sentence he got because of his celebrity compared to the usual 30-60 days and a fine.
> 
> Unlike most of the rest of you bleeding hearts for vicious and cruel animals that exist to do one thing -- pit fight -- I haven't rendered a moral judgment.
> 
> *I'm saying he paid his debt as was handed out by the court.*  The sentence didn't include "and to be persecuted for the rest of your natural life by bleeding hearts."
Click to expand...


That, I agree with.  The crack about leaving him in a pen with 2 of them was simply a smartass crack to the conversation going on at the time.  However, I don't think 23 months is long enough for anyone.. If the standard is 30-90 days, I think that's even worse.  Not nearly enough time to teach a lesson.  If you're going by sentence time alone, yes he paid it.


----------



## Ravi

Gunny said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> he should still be in jail...he should never be allowed to play football...i hope any team that hires him...faces the full force of a boycott and each time vic plays...i hope fans hiss and boo him....stick a fork in him...he should be done
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's bullshit.  He served his time for his crime and there's NO reason he should not be allowed to pursue a career.
Click to expand...

I agree. Do you think he should be allowed to vote?


----------



## Gunny

Dis said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> he is thug who can play football....so he can do anything he wishes in the eyes of stupid ass americans....who hold no one to any standards...funny how you hold such high moral thresholds and yet...think it is okay to forgive thugs who play sports...ie....kobe and the rest of them.....americans amaze me with their double standards for jocks...its starts in high school and goes all the way up....just like turtles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's a thug because he was part of  dogfighting ring?  Bullshit.
> 
> I have no double standard for jocks.  But you can address the double standard of the sentence he got because of his celebrity compared to the usual 30-60 days and a fine.
> 
> Unlike most of the rest of you bleeding hearts for vicious and cruel animals that exist to do one thing -- pit fight -- I haven't rendered a moral judgment.
> 
> *I'm saying he paid his debt as was handed out by the court.*  The sentence didn't include "and to be persecuted for the rest of your natural life by bleeding hearts."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That, I agree with.  The crack about leaving him in a pen with 2 of them was simply a smartass crack to the conversation going on at the time.  However, I don't think 23 months is long enough for anyone.. If the standard is 30-90 days, I think that's even worse.  Not nearly enough time to teach a lesson.  If you're going by sentence time alone, yes he paid it.
Click to expand...


Y'all are the type of people that would try to cure the plague by cutting off the lesions.  Instead of persecuting one person, try getting off your butts and going to the rural South and Southwest and explaining to Mexicans and Blacks the immorality of it all.  Because they don't see it.  They don't care.  It's entertainment and gambling to them, and it's BIG business.  

Then there's the fact that some people just don't place the same value on animal life as they do human life.  

What I really find interesting are the number of pro choice advocates in this thread bitching about dogfighting.  I thought the whole reason it was okay to snuff out a life is because they don't consider it human yet?  

Pit bulls aren't human.

And before YOU, dis, screech at me, I am aware that you are not pro-choice.


----------



## Dis

Gunny said:


> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's a thug because he was part of  dogfighting ring?  Bullshit.
> 
> I have no double standard for jocks.  But you can address the double standard of the sentence he got because of his celebrity compared to the usual 30-60 days and a fine.
> 
> Unlike most of the rest of you bleeding hearts for vicious and cruel animals that exist to do one thing -- pit fight -- I haven't rendered a moral judgment.
> 
> *I'm saying he paid his debt as was handed out by the court.*  The sentence didn't include "and to be persecuted for the rest of your natural life by bleeding hearts."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That, I agree with.  The crack about leaving him in a pen with 2 of them was simply a smartass crack to the conversation going on at the time.  However, I don't think 23 months is long enough for anyone.. If the standard is 30-90 days, I think that's even worse.  Not nearly enough time to teach a lesson.  If you're going by sentence time alone, yes he paid it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Y'all are the type of people that would try to cure the plague by cutting off the lesions.  Instead of persecuting one person, try getting off your butts and going to the rural South and Southwest and explaining to Mexicans and Blacks the immorality of it all.  Because they don't see it.  They don't care.  It's entertainment and gambling to them, and it's BIG business.
> 
> Then there's the fact that some people just don't place the same value on animal life as they do human life.
> 
> What I really find interesting are the number of pro choice advocates in this thread bitching about dogfighting.  I thought the whole reason it was okay to snuff out a life is because they don't consider it human yet?
> 
> Pit bulls aren't human.
> 
> And before YOU, dis, screech at me, I am aware that you are not pro-choice.
Click to expand...


If it's acceptable in the south, then do it in the south; don't do it where it's illegal.  If he's really that hard up for some old fashioned barbarian fun, he can easily afford to move.  Or hell, just fly out for the day.

On a simple behavior and intelligence scale, sorry, but most animals ARE better than humans.


----------



## Skull Pilot

manifold said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> he is a thug dear...why tolerate that type of behavior...thugs dont change.,....and no as far as i am concerned he cannot pay his debt to society by doing a small bit of time in jail then coming back and making millions in football....no ...if he is allowed to do that...says a lot about our society
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'd sure hate to be part of a society that values forgiveness.
Click to expand...


I never forgive cruelty.

it's one thing to commit a crime, for example stealing to feed your kids, and be forgiven. But the wanton lust for violence and the gratuitous pathological need to satisfy ones blood lust by inflicting pain on lesser creatures merely for one's own twisted pleasure is not something to be forgiven.


----------



## Ravi

Dis said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> That, I agree with.  The crack about leaving him in a pen with 2 of them was simply a smartass crack to the conversation going on at the time.  However, I don't think 23 months is long enough for anyone.. If the standard is 30-90 days, I think that's even worse.  Not nearly enough time to teach a lesson.  If you're going by sentence time alone, yes he paid it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y'all are the type of people that would try to cure the plague by cutting off the lesions.  Instead of persecuting one person, try getting off your butts and going to the rural South and Southwest and explaining to Mexicans and Blacks the immorality of it all.  Because they don't see it.  They don't care.  It's entertainment and gambling to them, and it's BIG business.
> 
> Then there's the fact that some people just don't place the same value on animal life as they do human life.
> 
> What I really find interesting are the number of pro choice advocates in this thread bitching about dogfighting.  I thought the whole reason it was okay to snuff out a life is because they don't consider it human yet?
> 
> Pit bulls aren't human.
> 
> And before YOU, dis, screech at me, I am aware that you are not pro-choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it's acceptable in the south, then do it in the south; don't do it where it's illegal.  If he's really that hard up for some old fashioned barbarian fun, he can easily afford to move.  Or hell, just fly out for the day.
> 
> On a simple behavior and intelligence scale, sorry, but most animals ARE better than humans.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's acceptable some places in the south but I'm pretty sure it isn't legal. It's also NOT acceptable to the general public at large.


----------



## SableRay

Football is a sport many love especially me.  I predict if allowed to play Vick will fill up stadiums.  Team owners want winners who can bring in Big Bucks.  
Fans have short memories and when the game is on Vick's past will become a blur.


----------



## SableRay

Dis, do you know what state the government charged Vick  committed this crime in?  I don't think it was Alaska.


----------



## Dis

SableRay said:


> Dis, do you know what state the government charged Vick  committed this crime in?  I don't think it was Alaska.



Nope.. I'm the one that asked for the short version of the story, remember?


----------



## strollingbones

Dis said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> That, I agree with.  The crack about leaving him in a pen with 2 of them was simply a smartass crack to the conversation going on at the time.  However, I don't think 23 months is long enough for anyone.. If the standard is 30-90 days, I think that's even worse.  Not nearly enough time to teach a lesson.  If you're going by sentence time alone, yes he paid it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y'all are the type of people that would try to cure the plague by cutting off the lesions.  Instead of persecuting one person, try getting off your butts and going to the rural South and Southwest and explaining to Mexicans and Blacks the immorality of it all.  Because they don't see it.  They don't care.  It's entertainment and gambling to them, and it's BIG business.
> 
> Then there's the fact that some people just don't place the same value on animal life as they do human life.
> 
> What I really find interesting are the number of pro choice advocates in this thread bitching about dogfighting.  I thought the whole reason it was okay to snuff out a life is because they don't consider it human yet?
> 
> Pit bulls aren't human.
> 
> And before YOU, dis, screech at me, I am aware that you are not pro-choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If it's acceptable in the south, then do it in the south*; don't do it where it's illegal.  If he's really that hard up for some old fashioned barbarian fun, he can easily afford to move.  Or hell, just fly out for the day.
> 
> On a simple behavior and intelligence scale, sorry, but most animals ARE better than humans.
Click to expand...

]


fuck this whoopi goldberg shit that its acceptable in the south....IT IS NOT....we have it but its not accepted....and must i remind you...va is hardly the deep south?

gunny..he was not involved in it...he was the mastermind of it..who financed it..rings and fights where at his place....bit of a difference....i think.


----------



## jillian

And he was punished more severely than many people who have done far worse...

he paid his debt. why should his life be ruined?


----------



## Article 15

Donte Stallworth killed a man while driving drunk (during daytime hours no less) and was recently released after serving 30 days of jail time.  30 days.  And I don't hear anywhere near as much clamoring about him as I do Vick.

Moral of the story:  Kill humans not dogs.


----------



## Skull Pilot

jillian said:


> And he was punished more severely than many people who have done far worse...
> 
> he paid his debt. why should his life be ruined?



 he is more than capable of earning a living. just because he may not be able to play in the NFL (and he shouldn't IMO) is not the ruination of his life.

people who derive their pleasure by inflicting pain and suffering on lesser creatures should be held in low esteem.

I think part of his punishment should have been 10 years community service tending to animals that have been abused by pieces of shit just like him.


----------



## jillian

I do hold him in low esteem. But I don't need athletes to be role models and if he's capable of playing, I don't see any reason for him not doing so.

Football players aren't generally models of decorum.


----------



## manifold

Skull Pilot said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> he is a thug dear...why tolerate that type of behavior...thugs dont change.,....and no as far as i am concerned he cannot pay his debt to society by doing a small bit of time in jail then coming back and making millions in football....no ...if he is allowed to do that...says a lot about our society
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'd sure hate to be part of a society that values forgiveness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never forgive cruelty.
> 
> it's one thing to commit a crime, for example stealing to feed your kids, and be forgiven. But the wanton lust for violence and the gratuitous pathological need to satisfy ones blood lust by inflicting pain on lesser creatures merely for one's own twisted pleasure is not something to be forgiven.
Click to expand...


wanton lust for violence?

gratuitous pathological need to satisfy one's blood lust?

inflicting pain on lesser creatures merely for one's own twisted pleasure?

That's quite the creative and fanciful extrapolation of the actual facts you got going there.  Do you do that with every issue you discuss?  I don't really care, I just want to know if I should relegate your views to my ever growing pay-no-mind list.


----------



## Zoom-boing

I didn't read this whole thread so if this has been asked and answered, sorry.

Does anyone know if a restriction was placed upon Vick that he may never own another animal again?


----------



## Skull Pilot

manifold said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'd sure hate to be part of a society that values forgiveness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never forgive cruelty.
> 
> it's one thing to commit a crime, for example stealing to feed your kids, and be forgiven. But the wanton lust for violence and the gratuitous pathological need to satisfy ones blood lust by inflicting pain on lesser creatures merely for one's own twisted pleasure is not something to be forgiven.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wanton lust for violence?
> 
> gratuitous pathological need to satisfy one's blood lust?
> 
> inflicting pain on lesser creatures merely for one's own twisted pleasure?
> 
> That's quite the creative and fanciful extrapolation of the actual facts you got going there.  Do you do that with every issue you discuss?  I don't really care, I just want to know if I should relegate your views to my ever growing pay-no-mind list.
Click to expand...


So how do you describe the mistreatment of dogs in order to watch them tear each other limb from limb in a bloody battle to the death?

How do you describe a person who derives pleasure from such "sport" if not one craving violence?

If this is not a twisted need for violence from which people derive some sort of perverse vicarious pleasure then why do it?


----------



## manifold

Skull Pilot said:
			
		

> So how do you describe the mistreatment of dogs in order to watch them tear each other limb from limb in a bloody battle to the death?



I describe it as cruelty.



			
				Skull Pilot said:
			
		

> How do you describe a person who derives pleasure from such "sport" if not one craving violence?



Being entertained by violence isn't exactly the same thing as pathological, wanton bloodlust.  Are you suggesting that fans of MMA, boxing, football or hockey all have a pathological need to satisfy a bloodlust?



			
				Skull Pilot said:
			
		

> If this is not a twisted need for violence from which people derive some sort of perverse vicarious pleasure then why do it?



Money.  And the pleasure derived from gambling.  I've not seen one shred of evidence supporting the notion that Vick _got off_ on torturing the dogs.


----------



## Paulie

Mani, "money" could not have possibly been an issue in this.  Vick was right in the middle of a 130 million dollar contract.  He had no reason to be fighting dogs to make money.  He signed the richest deal in NFL history at the time of his contract, he was being paid like a king to do what he apparently loved to do.

This seems more to me like a "...but you can't take the ghetto out of the..." situation.  

This said though, I think he paid his debt to society and should have the opportunity to come full circle and play football again.


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> The fact is, fighting animals is acceptable among a certain segment of our society and they don't think anything is really wrong with it.


So is wife beating and child rape.





Gunny said:


> act all outraged wanted to crucify the person that got caught, but not do a damned thing about the reason behind his actions.



And you know this how?


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> Michael Vick was released this morning from federal custody.
> 
> When and if he'll return to the NFL is to be determined.
> 
> What are your thoughts about that?
> 
> 
> 
> While part of me would like to see him rot in a dungeon for the rest of his life another part hopes that he has had time to see the error of his ways and has been rehabilitated.
> 
> It's been shown that it's much much easier to rehabilitate vicious dogs than vicious humans, but I have seen people who hated dogs like he must have, actually come around to being the biggest dog lovers you could imagine. It could happen to him too. Meanwhile, I do think he should not be allowed to own any dogs or be near dogs unsupervised till it's clear he could be trusted again.
> 
> As for his football career, who gives fuck. It's an all around stupid "sport" anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People who fight dogs do not hate them.  They are tools -- a means to an end.
Click to expand...

 That's _your _opinion. I think that in order to torture and kill, there has to be some hate involved.


----------



## chanel

There's a big difference between being ostracized by the public and being deified by adoring fans.  He's a POS that doesn't deserve a gazillion dollar contract and the cheers of the crowd.  Let him get a regular job like the rest of us schmucks.


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> good comment about showing up with milk bones etc...
> 
> dis it is manie who hates pitts and thinks they should be banned....see the 'manie you are hardly objective"
> 
> it would be a pr nightmare for any team that signs him....gonna be hard to spill with animal lovers...and peta will be right there...his marketablity is zero you wont see vick on your wheaties
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't just mani.  Pit bulls are bred for nothing BUT pit fighting; hence, the name "pit" bull.  They're inbred, vicious and unpredictable, and serve no real function as domesticated animals EXCEPT to pit fight.
> 
> They should be banned.  Perhaps you need to face off against one in the street to see the light?  Whether or not the owner was irresponsible is irrelevant to the fact that there's nothing between you and that dog at the time but air.
Click to expand...


A bunch of crap. Your ignorance is showing, Gunny.


----------



## xotoxi

asgardshill said:


> I hope he gets a gig cleaning up dog crap at the local animal shelter though. A man's gotta eat.


 
But does he have to eat dog crap?


----------



## xotoxi

Article 15 said:


> Donte Stallworth killed a man while driving drunk (during daytime hours no less) and was recently released after serving 30 days of jail time. 30 days. And I don't hear anywhere near as much clamoring about him as I do Vick.
> 
> Moral of the story: Kill humans not dogs.


 
I heard that the guy he killed was an undocumented Cuban.


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> All Michael Vick did was kill some dogs.
> 
> Heck, they kill and eat dogs in half of the countries of the world.
> 
> 
> Donte Stallworth was DWI and killed a man.
> 
> He recieved ONE month in jail.
> 
> 
> Yet Vick gets 23 months in prison for doggie homocide
> 
> This is insane!!!
> 
> 
> 
> He did more than just kill dogs, he tortured them. I think 23 months was too short a time. I don't know the circumstances of Donte Stalworth's crime so I can't compare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He didn't do anything more to them than any other pit breeders do.  All dogs trained to pit fight are what you called "tortured" just to make them as vicious as possible, and if they lose, they are killed.
Click to expand...

 
So because other criminals do it, it's okay in your book? 
Sounds like you want to minimize what they do. You're not willing to consider it torture. 
Not all pit breeders torture their dogs and train them to fight. 
Once again, Gunny talks out his ass.


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> chanel said:
> 
> 
> 
> If he was a mechanic or a plumber he night get a job but if people knew they might not use him. If he was a teacher or a cop do you think the public would accept "he's paid his dies"? Of course not. He's a fucking athlete and in this country they can torture animals, beat their wives, and threaten people with guns and still the fans will cheer and donate to their multi million dollar contracts..
> 
> Makes me sick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you from?  If he was a mechanic or a plumber or an electrician, he'd get a job based on his ability to perform in his chosen trade.  Nobody around here'd give a rat's ass if he fought dogs.
> 
> Comparing torturing animals to wife beating and threatening people with guns is just a little too much drama.  There is no comparison.
Click to expand...

So now you admit it's torture. But you fail to have compassion for the poor creatures so you just dismiss it.


----------



## xotoxi

Article 15 said:


> Donte Stallworth killed a man while driving drunk (during daytime hours no less) and was recently released after serving 30 days of jail time.


 
He's lucky!  Leonard Little was given *90* days!  That's _*three whole months*_!


----------



## Valerie

He paid his legal debt to society yet I will personally continue to hold him in low esteem.

How other criminal athletes were treated in different cases makes no difference to my opinion of Michael Vick.

Beyond that, it's up to the NFL to allow him back into the league, as somewhere in the fine print they're allowed to discriminate in such a manner.  Then it's up to individual owners whether or not they want him on their team so he may get a conditional contract of some sort, and if he does it will be fun to root against him.


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> SableRay said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> concept said:
> 
> 
> 
> He broke the law?
> 
> 
> 
> Whippee  Just like Martha Stewart's prison time, what was the benefit of the imprisonment?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing.  Dogfighting continues unabated.  But it sure showed that NFL player what was what, huh?
Click to expand...


What an ass you can be!!!  You think this hasn't done something to bring more national attention to the horrors of dog fighting?


----------



## Sarah G

Anguille said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> good comment about showing up with milk bones etc...
> 
> dis it is manie who hates pitts and thinks they should be banned....see the 'manie you are hardly objective"
> 
> it would be a pr nightmare for any team that signs him....gonna be hard to spill with animal lovers...and peta will be right there...his marketablity is zero you wont see vick on your wheaties
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't just mani.  Pit bulls are bred for nothing BUT pit fighting; hence, the name "pit" bull.  They're inbred, vicious and unpredictable, and serve no real function as domesticated animals EXCEPT to pit fight.
> 
> They should be banned.  Perhaps you need to face off against one in the street to see the light?  Whether or not the owner was irresponsible is irrelevant to the fact that there's nothing between you and that dog at the time but air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A bunch of crap. Your ignorance is showing, Gunny.
Click to expand...


It is a bunch of crap, some of those same Pitts that he had fighting have been retrained and rehabilitated,  Because they are born fighters doesn't mean they must be.  A lot of people really won't have any other dog.


----------



## Anguille

Sarah G said:


> He will never play again, it will be a long time before he can even walk down the street without people wanting to hurt him.
> 
> He's like OJ in a sense, he's (was) walking free but nobody thinks he's innocent.  I hope he's saved at least some of his money for a rainy day.


His career is toast. I'm sure he has plenty of $ left. It may mean he has to live like the average person. Boo hoo! 

Of course, there will always be a few like Gunny who think the guy has been crucified.


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> He will never play again, it will be a long time before he can even walk down the street without people wanting to hurt him.
> 
> He's like OJ in a sense, he's (was) walking free but nobody thinks he's innocent.  I hope he's saved at least some of his money for a rainy day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong.  He'll play again unless the NFL tries to hide behind its faux morality and blackballs him.
> 
> Another comparison of dogfighting to murdering human beings.  GMAFB.
Click to expand...

Since you seem to think ranking humans so far above dogs that dogs don't even matter is the way to go, I won't bother to address that silly issue.
 But are you aware that animal abuse is often an indicator of someone who will move on to things you might consider not so easy to dismiss?  Jeffrey Dahlmer was typical in that way. He admitted to starting out torturing wild animals and pets.


----------



## chanel

> Vick was suspended from the NFL after his conviction but remains under contract with the Falcons, Segal said, though he does not expect the Falcons to retain Vick's rights if he is reinstated.
> 
> Vick and many of his creditors are depending on a return to football as his main source of income. But Segal admitted that he has no way of knowing whether Vick will be reinstated, because the decision lies with Goodell.  He has agreed to participate in a documentary about him that will net him $600,000, Segal said. He will also work 40 hours a week for W.M. Jordan, a construction company based in Newport News.
> 
> Among the terms included in Vick's plan of reorganization:
> 
> &#8226; Vick will retain the first $750,000 of his income.
> 
> &#8226; A percentage of his income above $750,000 will go to a trust fund



Michael Vick taking construction job after prison, lawyer says - CNN.com


----------



## Valerie

Anguille said:


> His career is toast.




Not so sure about that...This is what was written on the subject back in February:




> It's not even a guarantee that Vick will be back in the NFL in 2009. Roger Goodell has said he won't consider reinstatement until Vick's legal obligations are settled, and that might not be until July. Plus, it's Goodell and he likes to drag things out, so don't expect a quick decision on Vick's future.
> 
> If Vick does get reinstated, it is still difficult to imagine that there will be too many teams lining up to give away draft picks in order to get a guy who's been in prison for the past 18 months and is due to get $15 million in 2009 from his current contract. More likely, teams will wait for Atlanta to release Vick, thus enabling them to sign him to a new, more logical deal.
> 
> Assuming that all these things happen, what's the most likely destination for Vick in 2009? Shutdown Corner lists the five most likely spots:
> Where will Michael Vick play football in 2009? - Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports


----------



## Anguille

Dis said:


> Odds are good he'll just turn around and do it again...


 
Agreed. Animal abusers often do. I don't know the details of his sentence but I hope it included a restriction on his ever owning dogs again.


----------



## Anguille

strollingbones said:


> he is thug who can play football....so he can do anything he wishes in the eyes of stupid ass americans....who hold no one to any standards...funny how you hold such high moral thresholds and yet...think it is okay to forgive thugs who play sports...ie....kobe and the rest of them.....americans amaze me with their double standards for jocks...its starts in high school and goes all the way up....just like turtles.


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> And yeah, 23 months behind bars when most people busted for it serve little to no time and only pay a fine is bullshit.  he got harsher punishment for his celebrity.


 Cry me a river!  Of course he was used to set an example. And a precedent. The laws so far have been way too lenient for these people.





Gunny said:


> And yeah, when the same people in this thread never have anything to say about people being murdered, but get their panties in a wad over vicious animals that shouldn't exist to begin with, I'd call that retarded.


These animals didn't ask to exist or to be tortured into becoming vicious animals. Another case of blame the victim. 

What a crybaby you are!! You have to resort to that lameass accusation of the type, "you don't stand up for other victims so that make you a hypocrite." What a weenie!! You think every one on this board has time to espress their opinion on everything?


----------



## chanel

I'll third that.  Look at Mike Tyson and Michael Jackson.  Worshipping celebrities and athletes is the new American religion.  Obama understood that very, very well.


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> he is thug who can play football....so he can do anything he wishes in the eyes of stupid ass americans....who hold no one to any standards...funny how you hold such high moral thresholds and yet...think it is okay to forgive thugs who play sports...ie....kobe and the rest of them.....americans amaze me with their double standards for jocks...its starts in high school and goes all the way up....just like turtles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's a thug because he was part of  dogfighting ring?  Bullshit.
> 
> I have no double standard for jocks.  But you can address the double standard of the sentence he got because of his celebrity compared to the usual 30-60 days and a fine.
> 
> Unlike most of the rest of you bleeding hearts for vicious and cruel animals that exist to do one thing -- pit fight -- I haven't rendered a moral judgment.
> 
> I'm saying he paid his debt as was handed out by the court.  The sentence didn't include "and to be persecuted for the rest of your natural life by bleeding hearts."
Click to expand...


  Exaggerate much, Gunny?


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> Y'all are the type of people that would try to cure the plague by cutting off the lesions.  Instead of persecuting one person, try getting off your butts and going to the rural South and Southwest and explaining to Mexicans and Blacks the immorality of it all.  Because they don't see it.  They don't care.  It's entertainment and gambling to them, and it's BIG business.
> 
> Then there's the fact that some people just don't place the same value on animal life as they do human life.
> 
> What I really find interesting are the number of pro choice advocates in this thread bitching about dogfighting.  I thought the whole reason it was okay to snuff out a life is because they don't consider it human yet?
> 
> Pit bulls aren't human.
> 
> And before YOU, dis, screech at me, I am aware that you are not pro-choice.




When you are losing an argument, Gunny. Just back out gracefully. That post above was absolutely  ludicrous on so many levels.


----------



## Anguille

Skull Pilot said:


> I never forgive cruelty.
> 
> it's one thing to commit a crime, for example stealing to feed your kids, and be forgiven. But the wanton lust for violence and the gratuitous pathological need to satisfy ones blood lust by inflicting pain on lesser creatures merely for one's own twisted pleasure is not something to be forgiven.


Agreed. 
As revolting as these animal torturers are, though, I think we have to look at them as being somewhat like the dogs they abuse, vicious creatures that can be rehabilitated. Though, we definitely  have far more success rehabilitating abused dogs. Dogs are just much more flexible than humans.

These people disgust me but to really put an end to this horrible behavior I think we have to understand them better, see what makes them tick and why they became that way. Heavier prison sentences will do something to make this type of business unprofitable but more needs to be done investigating the reasons why it happens in the first place.


----------



## Skull Pilot

manifold said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how do you describe the mistreatment of dogs in order to watch them tear each other limb from limb in a bloody battle to the death?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I describe it as cruelty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you describe a person who derives pleasure from such "sport" if not one craving violence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Being entertained by violence isn't exactly the same thing as pathological, wanton bloodlust.  Are you suggesting that fans of MMA, boxing, football or hockey all have a pathological need to satisfy a bloodlust?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this is not a twisted need for violence from which people derive some sort of perverse vicarious pleasure then why do it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Money.  And the pleasure derived from gambling.  I've not seen one shred of evidence supporting the notion that Vick _got off_ on torturing the dogs.
Click to expand...


so he merely tortured them for money?

So that makes it OK


----------



## Anguille

Valerie said:


> He paid his legal debt to society yet I will personally continue to hold him in low esteem.
> 
> How other criminal athletes were treated in different cases makes no difference to my opinion of Michael Vick.
> 
> Beyond that, it's up to the NFL to allow him back into the league, as somewhere in the fine print they're allowed to discriminate in such a manner.  Then it's up to individual owners whether or not they want him on their team so he may get a conditional contract of some sort, and if he does it will be fun to root against him.


RGS said something about his having been banned by the commissioner but I didn't see anything more on it. It's up to the NFL. I'm sure they will choose to do what ever they think is best for the future of the sport.


----------



## Anguille

Sarah G said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't just mani.  Pit bulls are bred for nothing BUT pit fighting; hence, the name "pit" bull.  They're inbred, vicious and unpredictable, and serve no real function as domesticated animals EXCEPT to pit fight.
> 
> They should be banned.  Perhaps you need to face off against one in the street to see the light?  Whether or not the owner was irresponsible is irrelevant to the fact that there's nothing between you and that dog at the time but air.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bunch of crap. Your ignorance is showing, Gunny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is a bunch of crap, some of those same Pitts that he had fighting have been retrained and rehabilitated,  Because they are born fighters doesn't mean they must be.  A lot of people really won't have any other dog.
Click to expand...

They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal. 

I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.


----------



## Anguille

manifold said:


> Being entertained by violence isn't exactly the same thing as pathological, wanton bloodlust.  Are you suggesting that fans of MMA, boxing, football or hockey all have a pathological need to satisfy a bloodlust?


 Do dogs used in dog fighting have a choice? Athletes do. Comparing those sports to dog fighting is apples and oranges.


----------



## Nevadamedic

Gunny said:


> Nevadamedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is he, and what'd he do?  (Short version, please - I don't give a rip about sports - I just want to decide if I think he can ever repay his debt to society)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He tortured and murdered dogs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "murdering" a dog.
Click to expand...


Yes there is. Electracuting it to death or drowning it because it wouldn't fight. That is murder.


----------



## Anguille

Valerie said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> His career is toast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not so sure about that...This is what was written on the subject back in February:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not even a guarantee that Vick will be back in the NFL in 2009. Roger Goodell has said he won't consider reinstatement until Vick's legal obligations are settled, and that might not be until July. Plus, it's Goodell and he likes to drag things out, so don't expect a quick decision on Vick's future.
> 
> If Vick does get reinstated, it is still difficult to imagine that there will be too many teams lining up to give away draft picks in order to get a guy who's been in prison for the past 18 months and is due to get $15 million in 2009 from his current contract. More likely, teams will wait for Atlanta to release Vick, thus enabling them to sign him to a new, more logical deal.
> 
> Assuming that all these things happen, what's the most likely destination for Vick in 2009? Shutdown Corner lists the five most likely spots:
> Where will Michael Vick play football in 2009? - Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


It will be interesting to see what happens. I'm not a football fan but I would have a hard time supporting any team that had him on the roster. Unless he was to do something genuinely and sincerely helpful to see that dogs are better protected in the future. If he was to make a substantial donation to the SPA and make PSAs denouncing animal abuse.


----------



## manifold

Paulie said:


> Mani, "money" could not have possibly been an issue in this.  Vick was right in the middle of a 130 million dollar contract.  He had no reason to be fighting dogs to make money.  He signed the richest deal in NFL history at the time of his contract, he was being paid like a king to do what he apparently loved to do.
> 
> This seems more to me like a "...but you can't take the ghetto out of the..." situation.
> 
> This said though, I think he paid his debt to society and should have the opportunity to come full circle and play football again.



My understanding is that he was helping his _peeps_ make money.


----------



## Anguille

Nevadamedic said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nevadamedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> He tortured and murdered dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "murdering" a dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes there is. Electracuting it to death or drowning it because it wouldn't fight. That is murder.
Click to expand...

Murder is a loose term in Gunny's eyes. You'll see him apply it where it suits his own purpose.


----------



## asgardshill

xotoxi said:


> But does he have to eat dog crap?



I left that conclusion ambiguous on purpose.  Vick must do what he feels is right - all I did was suggest one potential path to some small redemption.


----------



## Anguille

manifold said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mani, "money" could not have possibly been an issue in this.  Vick was right in the middle of a 130 million dollar contract.  He had no reason to be fighting dogs to make money.  He signed the richest deal in NFL history at the time of his contract, he was being paid like a king to do what he apparently loved to do.
> 
> This seems more to me like a "...but you can't take the ghetto out of the..." situation.
> 
> This said though, I think he paid his debt to society and should have the opportunity to come full circle and play football again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that he was helping his _peeps_ make money.
Click to expand...

How does a person remain neutral when faced with animal torture? Either you are revolted by it or you get off on it. I suppose Mengele was only helping his "peeps"?


----------



## manifold

Skull Pilot said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how do you describe the mistreatment of dogs in order to watch them tear each other limb from limb in a bloody battle to the death?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I describe it as cruelty.
> 
> 
> 
> Being entertained by violence isn't exactly the same thing as pathological, wanton bloodlust.  Are you suggesting that fans of MMA, boxing, football or hockey all have a pathological need to satisfy a bloodlust?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this is not a twisted need for violence from which people derive some sort of perverse vicarious pleasure then why do it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Money.  And the pleasure derived from gambling.  I've not seen one shred of evidence supporting the notion that Vick _got off_ on torturing the dogs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so he merely tortured them for money?
> 
> So that makes it OK
Click to expand...



No, but perhaps forgiveable.


----------



## manifold

Anguille said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mani, "money" could not have possibly been an issue in this.  Vick was right in the middle of a 130 million dollar contract.  He had no reason to be fighting dogs to make money.  He signed the richest deal in NFL history at the time of his contract, he was being paid like a king to do what he apparently loved to do.
> 
> This seems more to me like a "...but you can't take the ghetto out of the..." situation.
> 
> This said though, I think he paid his debt to society and should have the opportunity to come full circle and play football again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that he was helping his _peeps_ make money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does a person remain neutral when faced with animal torture? Either you are revolted by it or you get off on it. I suppose Mengele was only helping his "peeps"?
Click to expand...



Methinks your emotions are getting the better of you.  You stopped making sense and started posting angry jibberish about three pages ago.


----------



## Nevadamedic

Anguille said:


> Nevadamedic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as "murdering" a dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes there is. Electracuting it to death or drowning it because it wouldn't fight. That is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Murder is a loose term in Gunny's eyes. You'll see him apply it where it suits his own purpose.
Click to expand...


I have figured that out.........................


----------



## Anguille

manifold said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding is that he was helping his _peeps_ make money.
> 
> 
> 
> How does a person remain neutral when faced with animal torture? Either you are revolted by it or you get off on it. I suppose Mengele was only helping his "peeps"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Methinks your emotions are getting the better of you.  You stopped making sense and started posting angry jibberish about three pages ago.
Click to expand...

 
Me no care what you thinks.


----------



## Ravi

Anguille said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> A bunch of crap. Your ignorance is showing, Gunny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a bunch of crap, some of those same Pitts that he had fighting have been retrained and rehabilitated,  Because they are born fighters doesn't mean they must be.  A lot of people really won't have any other dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal.
> 
> I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.
Click to expand...

Angie, while I agree this guy is a doosh you are incorrect that dog breeders don't breed for certain traits and many of them don't care that they are passing down negative ones as long as the dog fits the buyer's notion of what they want the dog to be. I think the AKC is responsible for a lot of this with their shows...breeding for beauty in many dogs unfortunately also means that beauty is all that is valued and things like hip dysplasia become more intensified in successive generations.

Ditto with breeding dogs for dog fighting. You also seem to forget that the lifespan of dogs is short enough to destroy a breed in a few short generations.


----------



## manifold

If I were Goodell, I'd be more pissed off at the fact that he lied to my face than I would be jumping on the _this guy is worse than Mengele_ bandwagon being driven by Anguille and co-piloted by bones.


----------



## Skull Pilot

manifold said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> I describe it as cruelty.
> 
> 
> 
> Being entertained by violence isn't exactly the same thing as pathological, wanton bloodlust.  Are you suggesting that fans of MMA, boxing, football or hockey all have a pathological need to satisfy a bloodlust?
> 
> 
> 
> Money.  And the pleasure derived from gambling.  I've not seen one shred of evidence supporting the notion that Vick _got off_ on torturing the dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so he merely tortured them for money?
> 
> So that makes it OK
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, but perhaps forgiveable.
Click to expand...


there is no forgiveness for wanton cruelty.


----------



## Anguille

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a bunch of crap, some of those same Pitts that he had fighting have been retrained and rehabilitated,  Because they are born fighters doesn't mean they must be.  A lot of people really won't have any other dog.
> 
> 
> 
> They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal.
> 
> I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Angie, while I agree this guy is a doosh you are incorrect that dog breeders don't breed for certain traits and many of them don't care that they are passing down negative ones as long as the dog fits the buyer's notion of what they want the dog to be. I think the AKC is responsible for a lot of this with their shows...breeding for beauty in many dogs unfortunately also means that beauty is all that is valued and things like hip dysplasia become more intensified in successive generations.
> 
> Ditto with breeding dogs for dog fighting. You also seem to forget that the lifespan of dogs is short enough to destroy a breed in a few short generations.
Click to expand...


A breed does not equal species, Ravi. Since most dog breeding is undocumented and can be done by anyone, there is very little evidence to support the notion that breeds are distinct controlled and determined entities. People like to see things that way, just like they think the human race is divided up in to subspecies. 
I think you have read too much sensationalist journalism about pit bulls and forget that proper training and care are by far the largest determining factor in whether a dog will make a good pet or not. You can attempt to breed for specific physical characteristics but you will not always be successfull. Dogs have been man's best friend for millennia and to think that in a few short centuries you can turn them into a whole other species that preys upon humans rather than cooperates with them is a theory that has not been proved.


----------



## Anguille

manifold said:


> If I were Goodell, I'd be more pissed off at the fact that he lied to my face than I would be jumping on the _this guy is worse than Mengele_ bandwagon being driven by Anguille and co-piloted by bones.


   Mani being mani. Bald faced lies. Ho Hum.


----------



## Anguille

Skull Pilot said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> so he merely tortured them for money?
> 
> So that makes it OK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, but perhaps forgiveable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there is no forgiveness for wanton cruelty.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's easier to forgive something you engage in yourself?


----------



## manifold

Skull Pilot said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> so he merely tortured them for money?
> 
> So that makes it OK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, but perhaps forgiveable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> there is no forgiveness for wanton cruelty.
Click to expand...


what about just plain old cruelty?


----------



## Ravi

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal.
> 
> I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.
> 
> 
> 
> Angie, while I agree this guy is a doosh you are incorrect that dog breeders don't breed for certain traits and many of them don't care that they are passing down negative ones as long as the dog fits the buyer's notion of what they want the dog to be. I think the AKC is responsible for a lot of this with their shows...breeding for beauty in many dogs unfortunately also means that beauty is all that is valued and things like hip dysplasia become more intensified in successive generations.
> 
> Ditto with breeding dogs for dog fighting. You also seem to forget that the lifespan of dogs is short enough to destroy a breed in a few short generations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A breed does not equal species, Ravi. Since most dog breeding is undocumented and can be done by anyone, there is very little evidence to support the notion that breeds are distinct controlled and determined entities. People like to see things that way, just like they think the human race is divided up in to subspecies.
> I think you have read too much sensationalist journalism about pit bulls and forget that proper training and care are by far the largest determining factor in whether a dog will make a good pet or not. You can attempt to breed for specific physical characteristics but you will not always be successfull. Dogs have been man's best friend for millennia and to think that in a few short centuries you can turn them into a whole other species that preys upon humans rather than cooperates with them is a theory that has not been proved.
Click to expand...

Not a whole other species, silly. A messed up breed of the species of canine. Are you going to sit there and tell me that you can't breed show dogs to have certain characteristics?


----------



## del

manifold said:


> Michael Vick was released this morning from federal custody.
> 
> When and if he'll return to the NFL is to be determined.
> 
> What are your thoughts about that?



_woof_​


----------



## Anguille

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Angie, while I agree this guy is a doosh you are incorrect that dog breeders don't breed for certain traits and many of them don't care that they are passing down negative ones as long as the dog fits the buyer's notion of what they want the dog to be. I think the AKC is responsible for a lot of this with their shows...breeding for beauty in many dogs unfortunately also means that beauty is all that is valued and things like hip dysplasia become more intensified in successive generations.
> 
> Ditto with breeding dogs for dog fighting. You also seem to forget that the lifespan of dogs is short enough to destroy a breed in a few short generations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A breed does not equal species, Ravi. Since most dog breeding is undocumented and can be done by anyone, there is very little evidence to support the notion that breeds are distinct controlled and determined entities. People like to see things that way, just like they think the human race is divided up in to subspecies.
> I think you have read too much sensationalist journalism about pit bulls and forget that proper training and care are by far the largest determining factor in whether a dog will make a good pet or not. You can attempt to breed for specific physical characteristics but you will not always be successfull. Dogs have been man's best friend for millennia and to think that in a few short centuries you can turn them into a whole other species that preys upon humans rather than cooperates with them is a theory that has not been proved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a whole other species, silly. A messed up breed of the species of canine. Are you going to sit there and tell me that you can't breed show dogs to have certain characteristics?
Click to expand...

You can't breed a companion, cooperative with humans species into a predator of humans species. At least it's never been done. And if it's possible it will take more that a couple of centuries and random breeding to do so.
We been through this before. You and mani ( mani in an especially emotional fashion) end up shouting hysterically that the pit bulls are are coming to eat our children.


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## Ravi

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> A breed does not equal species, Ravi. Since most dog breeding is undocumented and can be done by anyone, there is very little evidence to support the notion that breeds are distinct controlled and determined entities. People like to see things that way, just like they think the human race is divided up in to subspecies.
> I think you have read too much sensationalist journalism about pit bulls and forget that proper training and care are by far the largest determining factor in whether a dog will make a good pet or not. You can attempt to breed for specific physical characteristics but you will not always be successfull. Dogs have been man's best friend for millennia and to think that in a few short centuries you can turn them into a whole other species that preys upon humans rather than cooperates with them is a theory that has not been proved.
> 
> 
> 
> Not a whole other species, silly. A messed up breed of the species of canine. Are you going to sit there and tell me that you can't breed show dogs to have certain characteristics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't breed a companion, cooperative with humans species into a predator of humans species. At least it's never been done. And if it's possible it will take more that a couple of centuries and random breeding to do so.
> We been through this before. You and mani ( mani in an especially emotional fashion) end up shouting hysterically that the pit bulls are are coming to eat our children.
Click to expand...

 You might not realize it but dogs descended from wolves...



































































































WOOF!


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## Anguille

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not a whole other species, silly. A messed up breed of the species of canine. Are you going to sit there and tell me that you can't breed show dogs to have certain characteristics?
> 
> 
> 
> You can't breed a companion, cooperative with humans species into a predator of humans species. At least it's never been done. And if it's possible it will take more that a couple of centuries and random breeding to do so.
> We been through this before. You and mani ( mani in an especially emotional fashion) end up shouting hysterically that the pit bulls are are coming to eat our children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You might not realize it but dogs descended from wolves...
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> WOOF!
Click to expand...

Yet they aren't wolves.

Neither are we chimps.

Bigger woof and a howl at your pretensions to understanding biology.


----------



## consrep

ok, this man was prosecuted and served his sentence. give me a break. let the man play ball and leave him alone!!! OR, as a society, lets put the same amount of pressure and punishment on those sports figures who commit other crimes, such as stallworth, who served TWENTY-FOUR days in jail for hitting and KILLING a man while driving under the influence. is he on the news all the time? no. but we are inundated with hearing about michael vick and what a monster he is and how he will always be a monster. the justice system is flawed when one man's crime kills another human being and serves less time and gets punished less than the other man's crime which killed animals. (please don't get me wrong-i HATE what michael vick did, and he *deserved* to be punished.) but he has served his time.


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## Ravi

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't breed a companion, cooperative with humans species into a predator of humans species. At least it's never been done. And if it's possible it will take more that a couple of centuries and random breeding to do so.
> We been through this before. You and mani ( mani in an especially emotional fashion) end up shouting hysterically that the pit bulls are are coming to eat our children.
> 
> 
> 
> You might not realize it but dogs descended from wolves...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOOF!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet they aren't wolves.
> 
> Neither are we chimps.
> 
> Bigger woof and a howl at your pretensions to understanding biology.
Click to expand...

But I thought you said it was impossible to breed a loving dog from a wild animal that didn't take to mankind?


----------



## Luissa

Gunny said:


> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's a thug because he was part of  dogfighting ring?  Bullshit.
> 
> I have no double standard for jocks.  But you can address the double standard of the sentence he got because of his celebrity compared to the usual 30-60 days and a fine.
> 
> Unlike most of the rest of you bleeding hearts for vicious and cruel animals that exist to do one thing -- pit fight -- I haven't rendered a moral judgment.
> 
> *I'm saying he paid his debt as was handed out by the court.*  The sentence didn't include "and to be persecuted for the rest of your natural life by bleeding hearts."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That, I agree with.  The crack about leaving him in a pen with 2 of them was simply a smartass crack to the conversation going on at the time.  However, I don't think 23 months is long enough for anyone.. If the standard is 30-90 days, I think that's even worse.  Not nearly enough time to teach a lesson.  If you're going by sentence time alone, yes he paid it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Y'all are the type of people that would try to cure the plague by cutting off the lesions.  Instead of persecuting one person, try getting off your butts and going to the rural South and Southwest and explaining to Mexicans and Blacks the immorality of it all.  Because they don't see it.  They don't care.  It's entertainment and gambling to them, and it's BIG business.
> 
> Then there's the fact that some people just don't place the same value on animal life as they do human life.
> 
> What I really find interesting are the number of pro choice advocates in this thread bitching about dogfighting.  I thought the whole reason it was okay to snuff out a life is because they don't consider it human yet?
> 
> Pit bulls aren't human.
> 
> And before YOU, dis, screech at me, I am aware that you are not pro-choice.
Click to expand...

What Michael Vick did was against the law, abortion is legal!
And it is alittle different to abort a fetus at say eight weeks when it feels no pain than sticking a dog into a ring with it's mouth duck tape shut so you can build the ego of another dog.
And if I used your same arguement, no Pro Life person has the right to be for capital punishment because someone on death row is still a human no matter what they did.
I call bullshit on your straw man arguement!


----------



## Dis

Anguille said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> A bunch of crap. Your ignorance is showing, Gunny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a bunch of crap, some of those same Pitts that he had fighting have been retrained and rehabilitated,  Because they are born fighters doesn't mean they must be.  A lot of people really won't have any other dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal.
> 
> I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.
Click to expand...


Knowing pits that were "great family pets" does not change the fact that they ARE specifically bred to fight, whether we like it or not.  It's been done for so long now that it IS a natural instinct with them, and whether or not they're "family" dogs, the fact is *anything can make them snap and revert back to form.*


----------



## Anguille

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might not realize it but dogs descended from wolves...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WOOF!
> 
> 
> 
> Yet they aren't wolves.
> 
> Neither are we chimps.
> 
> Bigger woof and a howl at your pretensions to understanding biology.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But I thought you said it was impossible to breed a loving dog from a wild animal that didn't take to mankind?
Click to expand...


----------



## Dis

Luissa said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> That, I agree with.  The crack about leaving him in a pen with 2 of them was simply a smartass crack to the conversation going on at the time.  However, I don't think 23 months is long enough for anyone.. If the standard is 30-90 days, I think that's even worse.  Not nearly enough time to teach a lesson.  If you're going by sentence time alone, yes he paid it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Y'all are the type of people that would try to cure the plague by cutting off the lesions.  Instead of persecuting one person, try getting off your butts and going to the rural South and Southwest and explaining to Mexicans and Blacks the immorality of it all.  Because they don't see it.  They don't care.  It's entertainment and gambling to them, and it's BIG business.
> 
> Then there's the fact that some people just don't place the same value on animal life as they do human life.
> 
> What I really find interesting are the number of pro choice advocates in this thread bitching about dogfighting.  I thought the whole reason it was okay to snuff out a life is because they don't consider it human yet?
> 
> Pit bulls aren't human.
> 
> And before YOU, dis, screech at me, I am aware that you are not pro-choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What Michael Vick did was against the law, abortion is legal!
> And it is alittle different to abort a fetus at say eight weeks when it feels no pain than sticking a dog into a ring with it's mouth duck tape shut so you can build the ego of another dog.
> And if I used your same arguement, no Pro Life person has the right to be for capital punishment because someone on death row is still a human no matter what they did.
> I call bullshit on your straw man arguement!
Click to expand...


You missed his whole point with the pro-choice crowd.  He didn't differentiate between legal, and illegal.  He said pro-choice people think it's ok to snuff out a life because it's *not human*, so he doesn't understand why they have a problem with this, as the dog is *not human* either.

See now?


----------



## Anguille

Dis said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a bunch of crap, some of those same Pitts that he had fighting have been retrained and rehabilitated,  Because they are born fighters doesn't mean they must be.  A lot of people really won't have any other dog.
> 
> 
> 
> They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal.
> 
> I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Knowing pits that were "great family pets" does not change the fact that they ARE specifically bred to fight, whether we like it or not.  It's been done for so long now that it IS a natural instinct with them, and whether or not they're "family" dogs, the fact is *anything can make them snap and revert back to form.*
Click to expand...

DIS FAIL

  See Ravi for details.


----------



## Dis

Anguille said:


> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are no more born fighters than any other dog. People have weird and uneducated ideas about biology and what constitutes a species of animal. Dogs have been domesticated for millennia. Dogs are dogs. Dog breeding is a very new practice and has not gone on long enough to have any significant effect on the species in terms of effecting the basic nature of the animal.
> 
> I've known plenty of pit bulls that were great family pets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Knowing pits that were "great family pets" does not change the fact that they ARE specifically bred to fight, whether we like it or not.  It's been done for so long now that it IS a natural instinct with them, and whether or not they're "family" dogs, the fact is *anything can make them snap and revert back to form.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> DIS FAIL
> 
> See Ravi for details.
Click to expand...


No fail, and I do not need to see Ravi for anything.  Just because you're posting on emotion rather than actual fact doesn't change what is.

I don't agree that he served enough of a term, and I think he's a complete and utter dick.  But, that doesn't change what these dogs are bred for.  I've seen some nice ones, and I've seen the reality of them snapping.  Fact is, you have no way of knowing for 100% sure the cute little puppy you get isn't going to go ballistic on you at some point in it's life.  I've even seen half pit, and half shepherd snap on someone...

What is, is.  No amount of "feel-goodism" is going to change that.


----------



## Anguille

Gunny said:


> And yeah, when the same people in this thread never have anything to say about people being murdered, but get their panties in a wad over vicious animals that shouldn't exist to begin with, I'd call that retarded.


  I didn't see anywhere in this thread that you had any compassion for these dogs. You called them nothing but tools earlier. Before you go lecturing people about compassion and changing the topic to veer the way you want it to, let me ask, do you have any of your own?


----------



## Anguille

Dis said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Knowing pits that were "great family pets" does not change the fact that they ARE specifically bred to fight, whether we like it or not.  It's been done for so long now that it IS a natural instinct with them, and whether or not they're "family" dogs, the fact is *anything can make them snap and revert back to form.*
> 
> 
> 
> DIS FAIL
> 
> See Ravi for details.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No fail, and I do not need to see Ravi for anything.  Just because you're posting on emotion rather than actual fact doesn't change what is.
> 
> I don't agree that he served enough of a term, and I think he's a complete and utter dick.  But, that doesn't change what these dogs are bred for.  I've seen some nice ones, and I've seen the reality of them snapping.  Fact is, you have no way of knowing for 100% sure the cute little puppy you get isn't going to go ballistic on you at some point in it's life.  I've even seen half pit, and half shepherd snap on someone...
> 
> What is, is.  No amount of "feel-goodism" is going to change that.
Click to expand...

What are your facts? You're just another victim of fear mongering. No dog is 100% safe. Nothing feel goodish about speaking out against misguided attempts to make dog and human contacts safer, such a breed based laws against certain dogs. The Center for Disease Control, The Society for the Prevention Of Cruelty to Animals and major veterinary organizations have all come out in opposition to them as they do nothing to make anyone any safer and they detract from the need to prosecute animal abusers under the laws we already have and from keeping people focused on what really is effective in keeping violent dog/ human interactions at a minimum, ie proper training and care.


----------



## Dis

Anguille said:


> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> DIS FAIL
> 
> See Ravi for details.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No fail, and I do not need to see Ravi for anything.  Just because you're posting on emotion rather than actual fact doesn't change what is.
> 
> I don't agree that he served enough of a term, and I think he's a complete and utter dick.  But, that doesn't change what these dogs are bred for.  I've seen some nice ones, and I've seen the reality of them snapping.  Fact is, you have no way of knowing for 100% sure the cute little puppy you get isn't going to go ballistic on you at some point in it's life.  I've even seen half pit, and half shepherd snap on someone...
> 
> What is, is.  No amount of "feel-goodism" is going to change that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What are your facts? You're just another victim of fear mongering. No dog is 100% safe. Nothing feel goodish about speaking out against misguided attempts to make dog and human contacts safer, such a breed based laws against certain dogs. The CDC, The SPA And major veterinary organizations have all come out in opposition to them as they do nothing to make anyone any safer and they detract from the need to prosecute animal abusers under the laws we already have and from keeping people focused on what really is effective in keeping violent dog/ human interactions at a minimum, ie proper training and care.
Click to expand...


Where on earth do you get "fear" from?


----------



## Anguille

Ravi said:


> Honestly, Angie, I don't understand your hard-headedness on this topic.
> 
> I friend of mine was singing the praises of her pit the other day...after it got annoyed at her little yorkie, picked it up in it's teeth and flung it around like a toy.
> 
> That dog would be toast if it were mine.


Cuz I did a little research instead of relying on old wive's tales and anecdotes on message boards. Why do you think I would consider you a better expert on safety with dogs than organisations that have actualy researched the issue? 

Also, none of the stuff you say about breeding and the domestication of animals makes any scientific sense. 

Some of you people who think pit bulls came from the devil have the same delusions about other breeds. You think golden retrievers are lambs. You are doing yourselves a major disservice when you think that a dog is a robot and that genes make some dogs evil and others saintly. 

Because of misguided  bans on pit bulls in some towns people have had to put their perfectly innocent pets to sleep or move or give them away. Dogs that have done no one to any harm. Meanwhile nothing is done in these towns to prevent animal abuse and neglect which is the real cause of vicious dogs. No one is any safer after these stupid laws are enacted.


----------



## Dis

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, Angie, I don't understand your hard-headedness on this topic.
> 
> I friend of mine was singing the praises of her pit the other day...after it got annoyed at her little yorkie, picked it up in it's teeth and flung it around like a toy.
> 
> That dog would be toast if it were mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Cuz I did a little research instead of relying on old wive's tales and anecdotes on message boards. Why do you think I would consider you a better expert on safety with dogs than organisations that have actualy researched the issue?
> 
> Also, none of the stuff you say about breeding and the domestication of animals makes any scientific sense.
> 
> Some of you people who think pit bulls came from the devil have the same delusions about other breeds. You think golden retrievers are lambs. You are doing yourselves a major disservice when you think that a dog is a robot and that genes make some dogs evil and others saintly.
> 
> Because of misguided  bans on pit bulls in some towns people have had to put their perfectly innocent pets to sleep or move or give them away. Dogs that have done no one to any harm. Meanwhile nothing is done in these towns to prevent animal abuse and neglect which is the real cause of vicious dogs. No one is any safer after these stupid laws are enacted.
Click to expand...


Oh, NOW you believe in the devil, when it serves to back your little rant.. 

Fact is, ANY dog is prone to flipping it's lid.  Those bred specifically to be attack dogs, or fight dogs are MORE prone to it, whether you like it or not.


----------



## Anguille

Dis said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, Angie, I don't understand your hard-headedness on this topic.
> 
> I friend of mine was singing the praises of her pit the other day...after it got annoyed at her little yorkie, picked it up in it's teeth and flung it around like a toy.
> 
> That dog would be toast if it were mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Cuz I did a little research instead of relying on old wive's tales and anecdotes on message boards. Why do you think I would consider you a better expert on safety with dogs than organisations that have actualy researched the issue?
> 
> Also, none of the stuff you say about breeding and the domestication of animals makes any scientific sense.
> 
> Some of you people who think pit bulls came from the devil have the same delusions about other breeds. You think golden retrievers are lambs. You are doing yourselves a major disservice when you think that a dog is a robot and that genes make some dogs evil and others saintly.
> 
> Because of misguided  bans on pit bulls in some towns people have had to put their perfectly innocent pets to sleep or move or give them away. Dogs that have done no one to any harm. Meanwhile nothing is done in these towns to prevent animal abuse and neglect which is the real cause of vicious dogs. No one is any safer after these stupid laws are enacted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, NOW you believe in the devil, when it serves to back your little rant..
> 
> Fact is, ANY dog is prone to flipping it's lid.  Those bred specifically to be attack dogs, or fight dogs are MORE prone to it, whether you like it or not.
Click to expand...

 Maybe I'm too subtle for you. I don't believe in the devil.


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## hjmick

Anguille said:


>



Wow, Romulus and Remus. Who knew USMB was so cultured?


----------



## Anguille

Dis said:


> Fact is, ANY dog is prone to flipping it's lid.  Those bred specifically to be attack dogs, or fight dogs are MORE prone to it, whether you like it or not.


  They aren't whether you like it are not. Only if they have been trained to be so. 
In fact the one kind of dog most likely to fight another dog or attack a human is an unneutered young male, of any breed, especially if he has been mistreated.  Ask any veterinarian.


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## Anguille

hjmick said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, Romulus and Remus. Who knew USMB was so cultured?
Click to expand...


----------



## Dis

Anguille said:


> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact is, ANY dog is prone to flipping it's lid.  Those bred specifically to be attack dogs, or fight dogs are MORE prone to it, whether you like it or not.
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't whether you like it are not. Only if they have been trained to be so.
> In fact the one kind of dog most likely to fight another dog or attack a human is an unneutered young male, of any breed, especially if he has been mistreated.  Ask any veterinarian.
Click to expand...


In my lifetime, counting ONLY dogs as pets, I've had 1 pit/shep mix, 1 rottie, 1 shep/wolf mix, 1 collie, 1 beagle, 1 norwegian elkhound.

Do I really need to list them, in order, from most aggressive in *any* situation, to least?  (And all of my animals lead a pretty cushy life.)


----------



## Anguille

Dis said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fact is, ANY dog is prone to flipping it's lid.  Those bred specifically to be attack dogs, or fight dogs are MORE prone to it, whether you like it or not.
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't whether you like it are not. Only if they have been trained to be so.
> In fact the one kind of dog most likely to fight another dog or attack a human is an unneutered young male, of any breed, especially if he has been mistreated.  Ask any veterinarian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In my lifetime, counting ONLY dogs as pets, I've had 1 pit/shep mix, 1 rottie, 1 shep/wolf mix, 1 collie, 1 beagle, 1 norwegian elkhound.
> 
> Do I really need to list them, in order, from most aggressive in *any* situation, to least?  (And all of my animals lead a pretty cushy life.)
Click to expand...

Who cares?  I think you just don't understand the point about anecdotal evidence and/or are just in the mood for an argument.


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## Dis

Anguille said:


> Dis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't whether you like it are not. Only if they have been trained to be so.
> In fact the one kind of dog most likely to fight another dog or attack a human is an unneutered young male, of any breed, especially if he has been mistreated.  Ask any veterinarian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my lifetime, counting ONLY dogs as pets, I've had 1 pit/shep mix, 1 rottie, 1 shep/wolf mix, 1 collie, 1 beagle, 1 norwegian elkhound.
> 
> Do I really need to list them, in order, from most aggressive in *any* situation, to least?  (And all of my animals lead a pretty cushy life.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who cares?  I think you just don't understand the point about anecdotal evidence and/or are just in the mood for an argument.
Click to expand...


No, I'm simply not discussing this in an emotional "animals are so CUTE" manner...  As I said..they are what they are, and nothing is going to change that.


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## Ravi

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, Angie, I don't understand your hard-headedness on this topic.
> 
> I friend of mine was singing the praises of her pit the other day...after it got annoyed at her little yorkie, picked it up in it's teeth and flung it around like a toy.
> 
> That dog would be toast if it were mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Cuz I did a little research instead of relying on old wive's tales and anecdotes on message boards. Why do you think I would consider you a better expert on safety with dogs than organisations that have actualy researched the issue?
> 
> Also, none of the stuff you say about breeding and the domestication of animals makes any scientific sense.
> 
> Some of you people who think pit bulls came from the devil have the same delusions about other breeds. *You think golden retrievers are lambs.* You are doing yourselves a major disservice when you think that a dog is a robot and that genes make some dogs evil and others saintly.
> 
> Because of misguided  bans on pit bulls in some towns people have had to put their perfectly innocent pets to sleep or move or give them away. Dogs that have done no one to any harm. Meanwhile nothing is done in these towns to prevent animal abuse and neglect which is the real cause of vicious dogs. No one is any safer after these stupid laws are enacted.
Click to expand...

That's just silly, Angie. Goldens are bred for their beauty, just like Pits are bred for their fight. Don't be so blinded.


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## Anguille

Ravi said:


> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, Angie, I don't understand your hard-headedness on this topic.
> 
> I friend of mine was singing the praises of her pit the other day...after it got annoyed at her little yorkie, picked it up in it's teeth and flung it around like a toy.
> 
> That dog would be toast if it were mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Cuz I did a little research instead of relying on old wive's tales and anecdotes on message boards. Why do you think I would consider you a better expert on safety with dogs than organisations that have actualy researched the issue?
> 
> Also, none of the stuff you say about breeding and the domestication of animals makes any scientific sense.
> 
> Some of you people who think pit bulls came from the devil have the same delusions about other breeds. *You think golden retrievers are lambs.* You are doing yourselves a major disservice when you think that a dog is a robot and that genes make some dogs evil and others saintly.
> 
> Because of misguided  bans on pit bulls in some towns people have had to put their perfectly innocent pets to sleep or move or give them away. Dogs that have done no one to any harm. Meanwhile nothing is done in these towns to prevent animal abuse and neglect which is the real cause of vicious dogs. No one is any safer after these stupid laws are enacted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's just silly, Angie. Goldens are bred for their beauty, just like Pits are bred for their fight. Don't be so blinded.
Click to expand...

And now you are intentionally acting stupid.  Maybe that's what_ you_ were breed for.


----------



## Dis

Anguille said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anguille said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cuz I did a little research instead of relying on old wive's tales and anecdotes on message boards. Why do you think I would consider you a better expert on safety with dogs than organisations that have actualy researched the issue?
> 
> Also, none of the stuff you say about breeding and the domestication of animals makes any scientific sense.
> 
> Some of you people who think pit bulls came from the devil have the same delusions about other breeds. *You think golden retrievers are lambs.* You are doing yourselves a major disservice when you think that a dog is a robot and that genes make some dogs evil and others saintly.
> 
> Because of misguided  bans on pit bulls in some towns people have had to put their perfectly innocent pets to sleep or move or give them away. Dogs that have done no one to any harm. Meanwhile nothing is done in these towns to prevent animal abuse and neglect which is the real cause of vicious dogs. No one is any safer after these stupid laws are enacted.
> 
> 
> 
> That's just silly, Angie. Goldens are bred for their beauty, just like Pits are bred for their fight. Don't be so blinded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And now you are intentionally acting stupid.  Maybe that's what_ you_ were breed for.
Click to expand...


And you said *I* want to fight?   What was the point behind that comment?

ME-OWRRR.


----------



## manifold

Angry Eel really cracks me up with how emotional, and entirely frazzled, she gets over this issue. 

Truth is, she might be right about bans doing absolutely no good.  But how can anyone take her seriously when she denies that pits are more dangerous than other breeds?  Between the breeding history, the statistics and simple common sense, one would have to be in serious denial to think owning a golden retriever is no less risky than owning a pit bull.  I mean honestly, I don't think I've ever even seen bobo post anything quite that retarded.


----------



## Luissa

Dis said:


> Luissa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> Y'all are the type of people that would try to cure the plague by cutting off the lesions.  Instead of persecuting one person, try getting off your butts and going to the rural South and Southwest and explaining to Mexicans and Blacks the immorality of it all.  Because they don't see it.  They don't care.  It's entertainment and gambling to them, and it's BIG business.
> 
> Then there's the fact that some people just don't place the same value on animal life as they do human life.
> 
> What I really find interesting are the number of pro choice advocates in this thread bitching about dogfighting.  I thought the whole reason it was okay to snuff out a life is because they don't consider it human yet?
> 
> Pit bulls aren't human.
> 
> And before YOU, dis, screech at me, I am aware that you are not pro-choice.
> 
> 
> 
> What Michael Vick did was against the law, abortion is legal!
> And it is alittle different to abort a fetus at say eight weeks when it feels no pain than sticking a dog into a ring with it's mouth duck tape shut so you can build the ego of another dog.
> And if I used your same arguement, no Pro Life person has the right to be for capital punishment because someone on death row is still a human no matter what they did.
> I call bullshit on your straw man arguement!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You missed his whole point with the pro-choice crowd.  He didn't differentiate between legal, and illegal.  He said pro-choice people think it's ok to snuff out a life because it's *not human*, so he doesn't understand why they have a problem with this, as the dog is *not human* either.
> 
> See now?
Click to expand...

my stating the fact that pro life people are hypocrits for being for capital punishment might give you a hint that I knew what he was talking about.


----------



## jgbkab

Anguille said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> 
> He will never play again, it will be a long time before he can even walk down the street without people wanting to hurt him.
> 
> He's like OJ in a sense, he's (was) walking free but nobody thinks he's innocent.  I hope he's saved at least some of his money for a rainy day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong.  He'll play again unless the NFL tries to hide behind its faux morality and blackballs him.
> 
> Another comparison of dogfighting to murdering human beings.  GMAFB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since you seem to think ranking humans so far above dogs that dogs don't even matter is the way to go, I won't bother to address that silly issue.
> But are you aware that animal abuse is often an indicator of someone who will move on to things you might consider not so easy to dismiss?  Jeffrey Dahlmer was typical in that way. He admitted to starting out torturing wild animals and pets.
Click to expand...


Now, that's a crock...that's what the animal lovers try to use as ammo. They take one sensationalized exception and try to make it the rule. People that torture animals do not eventually start torturing or killing humans.


----------



## jgbkab

Anguille said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah, when the same people in this thread never have anything to say about people being murdered, but get their panties in a wad over vicious animals that shouldn't exist to begin with, I'd call that retarded.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see anywhere in this thread that you had any compassion for these dogs. *You called them nothing but tools earlier.* Before you go lecturing people about compassion and changing the topic to veer the way you want it to, let me ask, do you have any of your own?
Click to expand...


I'm sure he meant they were tools for Vick and his compadres.


----------



## manifold

jgbkab said:


> Now, that's a crock...that's what the animal lovers try to use as ammo. They take one sensationalized exception and try to make it the rule. People that torture animals do not eventually start torturing or killing humans.



Yep.  Similar to the bogus gateway drug argument.  People who smoke weed do not typically end up as heroin and meth addicts.


----------



## Anguille

manifold said:


> Angry Eel really cracks me up with how emotional, and entirely frazzled, she gets over this issue.
> 
> Truth is, she might be right about bans doing absolutely no good.  But how can anyone take her seriously when she denies that pits are more dangerous than other breeds?  Between the breeding history, the statistics and simple common sense, one would have to be in serious denial to think owning a golden retriever is no less risky than owning a pit bull.  I mean honestly, I don't think I've ever even seen bobo post anything quite that retarded.


Of course I'm right that breed based laws are pointless, cruel and based on pseudo science and anecdotal evidence even William Joyce wouldn't use.
And of course you would continue to cling to your prejudice that tall graceful golden haired  yuppie suburban type dogs are superior to squat ghetto dogs with certain facial features.


----------



## manifold

There goes Angry Eel, making shit up again.  Ho hum


----------



## ba1614

Coach Gibbs says to give him another shot, that's good enough for me.


----------



## Anguille

manifold said:


> There goes Angry Eel, making shit up again.  Ho hum


 

cat bowler!!


----------



## manifold

Hey Eel,

I think someone is smoking a butt at a bus stop half a mile down the street.  You should probably call the authorities.


----------



## Anguille

I think your butt is being smoked all over this board.


----------



## manifold

Considering your track record when it comes to _thinking_, I'll take that as a validation of my wisdom and messageboard prowess.


----------



## Anguille

manifold said:


> Considering your track record when it comes to _thinking_, I'll take that as a validation of my wisdom and messageboard prowess.


I'm sure you will, and then some. 

 Here, a gift from me:


----------

