# Thoughts. Porn, good, bad or indifferent?



## RodISHI (Apr 13, 2009)

I don't personally think it is a good thing from what I have seen over the years. 

Yet everyone is able to come to their own conclusions on the subject. I would not want to tell anyone what they could or they could not do. I do think though people should be aware of the situations and heartache associated with the choices that they make.

Growing up in Southern California I knew people that were in that industry. I mention one instance in another post on USMB. The one I recall that really struck my senses was a girl my brother had a crush on growing up.

We walked to school when we live at the foothills for awhile and there was a group of the older kids that would sniff glue on the way to school. The girl my brother had the crush on was one of those who would get high before getting to the school. She was very pretty. She had blonde hair and blue eyes. One of the guys that hung out with her in the morning was a defender one day for me when some of the local crowd started hooting at me when I did not join them. I was sure grateful for that too. To me the stuff smelled awful even being on the street thirty feet away plus I tried to stay away from anything my brother did. My brother was older than I and of course I was the easiest thing for him to take out his fustrations on. That day he was not there but I sure did not want to go to the side of the road and sniff glue with those guys either. Thankfully we did not live very long near that neighborhood. I would not consider the girl my brother had a crush on again for several years.

I left home, got married and had children. The marraige was not going all that hot and in trying to make the whole affair work even when it was nearly over. I tried to be the obedient wife my husband wanted (I've learned since what a control freak is. He also admitted and apoligized years later for being the sick puppy he was). I agreed to go with him to a movie one evening. He neglected to tell me he would be taking me to the porn theatre with him. I was quiet about the whole ordeal as I followed him into the theatre. As much as I wanted to run I didn't and he promised if I did not like it we would leave. 

Once inside the theatre I felt sick from the smell. I quashed the urge to puke back and walk with what was supposed to be a loving spouse to a seat and sat down. As I sat there I could see everything around me. Trying not to panick so very hard as I sat there and looked at the whole place and tried really hard ot to look at the fellow sitting a few seats down from us. Then I saw her. That poor girl that was once so beautiful my brother thought he was in love with. She was in a corner of the theatre and men were standing around her. Her face was covered in slime and she looked as if she was some where in space but surely not there. I can still recall the memory and that was over thirty years ago. I learned she was in some of the porn films and she passed with little fan fare from the thoughts of people and this world. I doubt those many that abused her even consider her or the misery she lived in this world for the pleasure of others.


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## tigerbob (Apr 13, 2009)

Indifferent.  The films are pretty much deadly dull, and to see one is really to see them all.  Fine if you like that kid of thing, but there have to be better ways to spend your time and money.

That said, some of the stuff they make for "niche" audiences is pretty fucking gross.  If that was banned it wouldn't bother me, but one person's gross is another person's freedom of expression, so it would probably be the thin end of the wedge.


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## eots (Apr 13, 2009)

boring and stupid..but whatever floats yer boat


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## KittenKoder (Apr 14, 2009)

If you want to waste money on it ... have fun ... now, tomorrow I am buying a new keyboard I think with my money ...


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## KittenKoder (Apr 14, 2009)

This .... just ... fits:


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## Father Time (Apr 14, 2009)

So Kitten is into bestiality or a furry (or maybe that's the same thing).

I don't think I abuse the stuff. I prefer games more anyway.

I'm sorry but there's just something so utterly satisfying about ramming another car into a wall at 120 mph, or blowing up something huge.


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## Luissa (Apr 14, 2009)

I bet 90% of the men on here have some sort of porn hidden away somewhere, even my dad has one on beta hidden away.
As for porn, it all depends for me. It can be amusing at times.


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## Father Time (Apr 14, 2009)

Luissa said:


> I bet 90% of the men on here have some sort of porn hidden away somewhere, even my dad has one on beta hidden away.
> As for porn, it all depends for me. It can be amusing at times.



You mean clown porn?


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## Luissa (Apr 14, 2009)

Father Time said:


> Luissa said:
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> > I bet 90% of the men on here have some sort of porn hidden away somewhere, even my dad has one on beta hidden away.
> ...


 I have watched some pretty funny porno's. Watched one where they were hunting women like deer but with paint balls I think. The one that is a spoof on the Blair Witch was pretty entertaining.


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## KittenKoder (Apr 14, 2009)

Strange, I thought all porn was clown porn ...


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## Father Time (Apr 14, 2009)

Luissa said:


> Father Time said:
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You mean this

snopes.com: Hunting for Bambi

Haven't heard of the one spoofing the blair witch.


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## strollingbones (Apr 14, 2009)

Father Time said:


> So Kitten is into bestiality or a furry (or maybe that's the same thing).
> 
> I don't think I abuse the stuff. I prefer games more anyway.
> 
> I'm sorry but there's just something so utterly satisfying about ramming another car into a wall at 120 mph, or blowing up something huge.





bestialty or zooing is sex with an animal

furries....dress up as animals....there is a major difference....


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Strange, I thought all porn was clown porn ...



I can see where you would think that being a non-sexual and all.


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## strollingbones (Apr 14, 2009)

there is all kinds of porn...amazes me...it is said that porn drives innovations on the net...who knew?
i have seen some classic porn....deep throat..behind the green door....and i will admit to being a dark brothers fan....but i can only take it for brief times...with remote fast forwarding...some of it is too funny..there is one who has the worst boob job i have seen outside of tv shows on boob jobs gone wrong...one is under her arm nearly....some people like specialized porn..barely legal that kinda stuff...
other b & d or furries...(i just dont get the furries) but the fact is that porn is a personal right, its a big business and i do not think you will ever stop it....i remember when i was a kid..the little flash books...you flipped the pages to animate the characters...it was very mild compared to what you can see today....that is a lot of the problem with the porn industry today..how does it continue to entice and excite?  the one period where is was some woman doing 300 men...they competed on the number of men they could have penatrate them ..this was done with fluff girls and the men simply entered her then it was on to the next guy.. so porn must evolve to keep people coming back for more...i remember when midget porn was shocking ....not anymore....now what is shocking...the highest paying jobs and the largest selling films....male gay porn


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## editec (Apr 14, 2009)

I like images of beautiful women without too many clothes on.

Is that pornographic?

The one and only pornographic movie I saw was in 1970.  It was entitled Teenie Tulip.

It was so stupid and so UNSEXY I walked out about half way through it.

So much porn seems aimed at men seeinto dominance, power and abuse I find it rather absurd.

Do the producers of this crap not know any real women, or do they just understand their (rather small I think) audience's sickness?


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

editec said:


> I like images of beautiful women without too many clothes on.
> 
> Is that pornographic?
> 
> ...



You've seen half of one "porn" movie and you think you know what porn is aimed at ?


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## tigerbob (Apr 14, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> editec said:
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> > I like images of beautiful women without too many clothes on.
> ...



Does it really take a lifetime's research, or is this one instance where the audience's motivation can be guessed pretty accurately?


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

tigerbob said:


> dilloduck said:
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> > editec said:
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I think the people who are "aiming" porn are a little more creative than just appealing to one audience.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

I think porn is much ado about nothing.  I don't see it as all that harmful, and it doesn't particularly bother me.  Women who go into that industry do so of their own free will, and if they weren't in that industry, they'd likely be in some similar field of sex work.


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## editec (Apr 14, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> tigerbob said:
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> > dilloduck said:
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I suppose you're right about that.

Degradation comes in many forms.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

editec said:


> I suppose you're right about that.
> 
> Degradation comes in many forms.



One person's degradation is another person's titillation.

One thing I've learned about sex as I get older is that people have unique tastes and interests.  As long as the partners are consenting adults, and no laws are broken, I try not to judge.  It's really none of my business what other people are into.


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## Skull Pilot (Apr 14, 2009)

If you care to look there are many erotic films that could be classified as pornographic.

My wife and I will watch soft core porn and erotica. A bottle of wine, a little honey, some massage oil along with the film.  try it sometime.

I will add that many of you seem to be talking more on the line of the real hardcore stuff.  You know with the extreme close ups of uglies bumping.  And I would agree that those movies are really unappealing.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 14, 2009)

editec said:


> I like images of beautiful women without too many clothes on.
> 
> Is that pornographic?
> 
> ...



I don't necessarily know that people are "sick" if that is what they're into.  Would you say Marilyn Chambers was sick for saying she has S&M fantasies?  That's why people are drawn to watch porn -- it brings to "life" what they only fantasize about in real life.   "Power, dominance and abuse" also sells papers, books, magazines, movie tickets, etc.   We must have society full of "sick" people.


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## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

Skull Pilot said:


> If you care to look there are many erotic films that could be classified as pornographic.
> 
> My wife and I will watch soft core porn and erotica. A bottle of wine, a little honey, some massage oil along with the film.  try it sometime.
> 
> I will add that many of you seem to be talking more on the line of the real hardcore stuff.  You know with the extreme close ups of uglies bumping.  And I would agree that those movies are really unappealing.


You may have a point there skull. There could be a difference. Personally I don't care to do a study on it though. Rod and I never needed anything extra. Just being with one another has been adequate. Soft music and candle light is nice but not mandatory.


From seeing the results of a few people over the years we have known I think on a whole that porn or extracurricular activities may possibly do more damage to a normal loving relationship than help the relationship. Then again it may be that those people I have known were not stable to begin with or it could be they were inable to reach a point of being stable due to the extra factors in their lives. I'm thinking more along the lines that those extra factors played a large part of their demise.


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## stekim (Apr 14, 2009)

I've never understood what the big deal is with porn.  Who cares?


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## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

PoliticalChic said:


> We must have society full of "sick" people.


 Well if one takes the time to look at all the current circumstances of people in general you could have a point there PC.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

PoliticalChic said:


> I don't necessarily know that people are "sick" if that is what they're into.  Would you say Marilyn Chambers was sick for saying she has S&M fantasies?  That's why people are drawn to watch porn -- it brings to "life" what they only fantasize about in real life.   "Power, dominance and abuse" also sells papers, books, magazines, movie tickets, etc.   We must have society full of "sick" people.



Is it sick if two consenting adults enjoy it and no laws are broken?  Sick is in the eye of the beholder.  I don't really see the point of sitting in judgement on other people's sexual tastes.  It doesn't harm me in any way if the guy down the street likes to spank his wife occasionally, or if she likes to spank him.

I fail to see how it is any of my business, frankly.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > If you care to look there are many erotic films that could be classified as pornographic.
> ...



You're right.  Every couple is different.  To me when I think of romance, porn is not what comes to mind.  If people can watch it for what it is, then I think it's fine.  I'm not talking about you RodISHI, but there are people are there that make judgements about others who view it.  It's not for everyone, but I don't think people who are watch it are either evil or sick.  There's a difference between casual observers and those who seem addicted to it to the point where they can't have sex without it.


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## manifold (Apr 14, 2009)

I find it's useful to masturbate to, or to spice up sex with the misses, but other than that it doesn't offer much in the way of value.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

PoliticalChic said:


> You're right.  Every couple is different.  To me when I think of romance, porn is not what comes to mind.  If people can watch it for what it is, then I think it's fine.  I'm not talking about you RodISHI, but there are people are there that make judgements about others who view it.  It's not for everyone, but I don't think people who are watch it are either evil or sick.  There's a difference between casual observers and those who seem addicted to it to the point where they can't have sex without it.



I would say that if porn offends you, don't watch it.  But, don't assume that you know what is best for other people.


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## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

PoliticalChic said:


> RodISHI said:
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> > Skull Pilot said:
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People do need to make their own choices no doubt. I do think though if they are aware of the pitfalls as with anything that could harm them or another it could help them through this world.


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## Terry (Apr 14, 2009)

To each their own... Someone who needs porn on a regular bases is someone who has issues.  If a man watches it to spice up thier sex with a spouse...perhaps you should question why you need that spice...did you lose your love and attraction for said spouse?  

Like I stated, to each thier own.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

Terry said:


> To each their own...



Warning...judgemental section ahead...



> Someone who needs porn on a regular bases is someone who has issues.  If a man watches it to spice up thier sex with a spouse...perhaps you should question why you need that spice...did you lose your love and attraction for said spouse?


 


> Like I stated, to each thier own.



You realize your post has a significant internal logical conflict, right?

It's like this:

"Who am I to judge."
"But you know, they have huge issues, and what the hell is their problem?"
"But I never judge."

LMFAO.

Like I said, if you don't like it, don't watch it.  You have no clue, from the outside, what someone else's marriage is, needs, or should be.


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## Terry (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Terry said:
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> 
> > To each their own...
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I'm not judging far from it, it is what it is and I only pointed that out.


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## Sky Dancer (Apr 14, 2009)

I watched two porn movies when I was taking a sex education class in college.  They showed straight heterosexual porn, one porn film with gay men, and one with lesbians.  From a strictly educational standpoint, it was helpful.  We had some very interesting conversations in that class.

I didn't find them a particular personal turn on for me one way or the other.  There was a reaction at the time, I suppose, because it new to me, and I wasn't very experienced, and I had been raised a Catholic--so seeing these films would have been a major no-no at the time.

I watched a porn movie one other time under very odd circumstances and it creeped me out.

Many movie dramas have lovemaking scenes in them, and some are quite beauitful, and I enjoy them.   The L Word is pretty hot.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

Terry said:


> I'm not judging far from it, it is what it is and I only pointed that out.



Terry, when you write the following:



> Someone who needs porn on a regular bases is someone who has issues. If a man watches it to spice up thier sex with a spouse...perhaps you should question why you need that spice...did you lose your love and attraction for said spouse?



You're judging.  You have no basis on which to make that judgement, it is totally unsupported by any kind of scientific research, and you're revealing your personal biases.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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> > RodISHI said:
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I keep thinking about the high school girl that your brother had a crush on.  She sounds like a lost soul and that might be why she ended up in the porn industry.  I have an inkling that if her homelife was better and that there was a parent around that did some decent supervision that she might have made better choices in life.


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## Sky Dancer (Apr 14, 2009)

Personally, I find giant images of gonads in action, educational but not particularly sexy.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

PoliticalChic said:


> I keep thinking about the high school girl that your brother had a crush on.  She sounds like a lost soul and that might be why she ended up in the porn industry.  I have an inkling that if her homelife was better and that there was a parent around that did some decent supervision that she might have made better choices in life.



There are a surprising amount of lost souls out there in the U.S., people who fall through the net of our society.  It's very sad.


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## Sky Dancer (Apr 14, 2009)

Let's see if I get this right.  There are people who enjoy porn, who purchase it and find it fulfills some need, but they consider the actors in the movie 'lost souls'?  Isn't there some kind of split going on?

If you purchase porn and watch it, you're a part of the industry as a customer.    Why judge the people who work to make YOU happy?


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

Sky Dancer said:


> Let's see if I get this right.  There are people who enjoy porn, who purchase it and find it fulfills some need, but they consider the actors in the movie 'lost souls'?  Isn't there some kind of split going on?
> 
> If you purchase porn and watch it, you're a part of the industry as a customer.    Why judge the people who work to make YOU happy?



Please point out the person you feels who meets this described criteria.  To the best of my knowledge, it doesn't fit anyone who has posted in this thread.  I like porn, at times, but I don't consider the actors lost souls because they acted in porn.  They might be lost souls if they become drug addicted and die in a gutter.

Rodishi considers the actors lost souls, but neither consumes nor likes porn.  I'm not sure where Terry and PC fall in this spectrum.

But, I love it when you do this...jump into a discussion late with a completely irrelevant and inaccurate point.


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## Terry (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> > Let's see if I get this right. There are people who enjoy porn, who purchase it and find it fulfills some need, but they consider the actors in the movie 'lost souls'? Isn't there some kind of split going on?
> ...


I really don't care too much about this topic.  I don't purchase or watch porn, it's not my cup of tea to other's...I don't care what they do as long as they don't come over to my house and put in a CD of it.


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## tigerbob (Apr 14, 2009)

Sky Dancer said:


> Personally, I find giant images of *gonads in action*, educational but not particularly sexy.



That would be an interesting title for a porn film.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

tigerbob said:


> That would be an interesting title for a porn film.



Mission Impussyble.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 14, 2009)

tigerbob said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I find giant images of *gonads in action*, educational but not particularly sexy.
> ...


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Sky Dancer said:
> 
> 
> > Let's see if I get this right.  There are people who enjoy porn, who purchase it and find it fulfills some need, but they consider the actors in the movie 'lost souls'?  Isn't there some kind of split going on?
> ...



I was talking about the particular blond-haired blue-eyed girl that RodISHI mentioned.  I don't think everyone in the porn industry are lost souls.


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## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

PoliticalChic said:


> RodISHI said:
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> > PoliticalChic said:
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I did not know her well enough to know what her home life was like. It is a known fact though that glue sniffing damages brain cells. My brother hung with a crowd that drank pretty heavy. Not sure if he was into the glue sniffing or not?? I'll ask him next time I see him, (might be awhile as we live so far apart). I do know that the neighborhood she lived in wasn't the best. It was about a 1/4 mile or so down from where we lived. Most of those families had either only one parent or both parents working. Then so did the ones in the country club area. Very few had a parent that was at home or not working during the day so supervision was generally not there on a whole for most of the teens I knew growing up.  SO CA is a rough place to grow up. Then so are other places I'm sure. 

I'm sure no matter how well you try to protect your children the other children and adults they are around growing up will have an effect on their perspectives as they grow into adults.


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## DvDud1 (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> I don't personally think it is a good thing from what I have seen over the years.
> 
> Yet everyone is able to come to their own conclusions on the subject. I would not want to tell anyone what they could or they could not do. I do think though people should be aware of the situations and heartache associated with the choices that they make.
> 
> ...



That's a sad story.
While some are willing participants, there are others who are victimized by the pornography industry.

My thoughts on porn are: whatever floats your boat. We don't need no steenking morality police.

Or DO we?

The problem with pornography nowadays is that it's just TOO damn prevalent and TOO readily available...too easily accessible by our children.

Somehow, a line needs to be drawn. Adults watching it is one thing, but it's too easy for young kids to be able to view it...and some of the stuff that's out there nowadays is pretty sick and shouldn't be seen by young and impressionable children and teens.


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## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

Terry said:


> catzmeow said:
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> > Sky Dancer said:
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That reminds me Terry of son and a friend of his one day coming in the house all excited. They were about 19/20 at the time. They had stopped at the truck stop down the road and found a porn flick in the restroom. They were all excited to watch the thing and at the house they co-rented they did not have a vcr. So it was, "Let's go to mom's house." I told them you ain't putting that shit in here. Rod said, "Let them be." The grump I am I sat there quietly and pouted as they struggled to get the vcr working. After a bit it was funny as they struggled to get this tape to play. Then finally it came on. It showed this person with long beautiful blonde hair from the back. The boys thought they were going to see a girl. To their dismay it wasn't. I laughed to tears at those two as they started gagging. Lesson learned, "Things are not always what they appear to be."


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## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

DvDud1 said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > I don't personally think it is a good thing from what I have seen over the years.
> ...


I think that where to draw the line is where the major problem is. From the stand point of forcing others into morality we have to be very careful. Then I believe children should be protected and the parents have a right to do that. I would agree that many are victimized in any sex related industry. For some it is a way of life for them growing up. The same as would be for those who grew up with druggy parents, theives, etc... cycles are hard to break.


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## Father Time (Apr 14, 2009)

strollingbones said:


> Father Time said:
> 
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> > So Kitten is into bestiality or a furry (or maybe that's the same thing).
> ...



I know that, it was a joke.


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## manifold (Apr 14, 2009)

I heard that Passion of the Christ was a psuedo-pornographic snuff film.  That's why I haven't bothered to see it.


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## stekim (Apr 14, 2009)

DvDud1 said:
			
		

> That's a sad story.
> While some are willing participants, there are others who are victimized by the pornography industry.



How?  Are they being kidnapped and forced to have sex on camera?  If so I'm against that.  But if they voluntarily drive to work every day, go home every night, and the check clears the bank I think we call that a "job".


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

DvDud1 said:


> The problem with pornography nowadays is that it's just TOO damn prevalent and TOO readily available...too easily accessible by our children.
> 
> Somehow, a line needs to be drawn. Adults watching it is one thing, but it's too easy for young kids to be able to view it...and some of the stuff that's out there nowadays is pretty sick and shouldn't be seen by young and impressionable children and teens.



My advice:  Download firefox and some of the add-ons that are great for policing content.

Easy fix.


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## Shogun (Apr 14, 2009)

manifold said:


> I find it's useful to masturbate to, or to spice up sex with the misses, but other than that it doesn't offer much in the way of value.



Is this why you've been given the Golden Grip award over at fantasti.cc?

Crunch: *I said LAN-O-LIN, not that aloe-vera bullshit! Get it right, mutha fucka! *







(thats funny as hell if you've ever seen the movie The Big Hit)


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## manifold (Apr 14, 2009)

I knew you'd check it out. 

Not bad huh?


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## DvDud1 (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> DvDud1 said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with pornography nowadays is that it's just TOO damn prevalent and TOO readily available...too easily accessible by our children.
> ...



LOL-that's cute, but if we only had to worry about our own kids on our own computers then increased vigilance and supervision would be the answer.
But kids will find access to computers outside the home, and just because you or I may choose to be careful about what OUR kids watch doesn't mean that Little Johnny next door isn't getting away with watching stuff that he shouldn't...and starting to think that your daughter would look pretty good all tied up, greased up, and sodomized like the girl in that movie he saw...

I'm no prude, believe me...but the prevalence of porn IS a problem where our young people are concerned


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

DvDud1 said:


> LOL-that's cute, but if we only had to worry about our own kids on our own computers then increased vigilance and supervision would be the answer.
> But kids will find access to computers outside the home, and just because you or I may choose to be careful about what OUR kids watch doesn't mean that Little Johnny next door isn't getting away with watching stuff that he shouldn't...and starting to think that your daughter would look pretty good all tied up, greased up, and sodomized like the girl in that movie he saw...
> 
> I'm no prude, believe me...but the prevalence of porn IS a problem where our young people are concerned



I'm sorry, but I think your panties have gotten into a wad that doesn't reflect reality.  I have a 15-year-old and an 11-year-old.  I'm pretty familiar with policing this particular realm.  It isn't as difficult as you seem to believe it is.  It ain't rocket science, that's for damn sure.


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## stekim (Apr 14, 2009)

> I'm no prude, believe me...but the prevalence of porn IS a problem where our young people are concerned




If porn is a big problem for kids, what is the porn causing them to do?  I live in a large city and the number of cases where a pre-teen or teen girl is all tied up, greased up, and sodomized is remarkably low.  In fact I cannot think of an example.


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## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

stekim said:


> > I'm no prude, believe me...but the prevalence of porn IS a problem where our young people are concerned
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm a prude I don't mind admitting it. Tell me is for you is "remarkably low" acceptable when it comes to someone being abuse, raped or sodomized?


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## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> DvDud1 said:
> 
> 
> > LOL-that's cute, but if we only had to worry about our own kids on our own computers then increased vigilance and supervision would be the answer.
> ...


Catz do you have a daughter? I kept a pretty close eye on mine when they were teens. Then I did try to give them some freedom to as to not quash them. My daughter at 16 had a regular boyfriend. I would not learn until she was twenty why she suddenly broke the relationship off with this boy that was not a full year older than her. They went together for almost two years. My daughter did not want to tell Rod or I that he put her up against the wall and tried to force himself onto her and that is why she dumped him. 

As much as you think you may have a line on what is up in your childrens lives, you could learn different one day down the road. No matter how close you try to keep tabs on their safety. Preventive measures to protect others less fortunate is not to much to ask from society as a whole.


----------



## manifold (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> Catz do you have a daughter? I kept a pretty close eye on mine when they were teens. Then I did try to give them some freedom to as to not quash them. My daughter at 16 had a regular boyfriend. I would not learn until she was twenty why she suddenly broke the relationship off with this boy that was not a full year older than her. They went together for almost two years. My daughter did not want to tell Rod or I that he put her up against the wall and tried to force himself onto her and that is why she dumped him.




And you blame that on porn?

Sounds to me like your daughter did the right thing so I don't know what you're complaining about.  You can't legislate risk out of life.


----------



## Shogun (Apr 14, 2009)

manifold said:


> I knew you'd check it out.
> 
> Not bad huh?



Not too shabby.  Much better than Ampland.com


----------



## stekim (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> Tell me is for you is "remarkably low" acceptable when it comes to someone being abuse, raped or sodomized?



Your post was barely in English, but I think I got the question.  It's never acceptable.  Hope that clears up my position on rape.  I admit I was pro-rape for a while, but some folks on a board just like this made me change my opinion.


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

manifold said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Catz do you have a daughter? I kept a pretty close eye on mine when they were teens. Then I did try to give them some freedom to as to not quash them. My daughter at 16 had a regular boyfriend. I would not learn until she was twenty why she suddenly broke the relationship off with this boy that was not a full year older than her. They went together for almost two years. My daughter did not want to tell Rod or I that he put her up against the wall and tried to force himself onto her and that is why she dumped him.
> ...



It was not a complaint. More like a point. For anyone to say it is does not "reflect on reality" elluding to the pretense that they have complete control over what their fifteen or eleven year old is exposed to, they are only fooling themselves. Believe it or not raising a child is more than "rocket science". Common sense plays a big part in it. It is more obvious than not that few have that in this day and age.

If one can't legislate in an effort to limit risk. Then tell me why does a society even have regulations, laws and rules in a society that people must live by? I mean surely if we cannot limit risk through legislation every should be allowed to dump their own trash as they see fit, right? I mean if we are going to have a loose society where everyone decides what's best for themselves regardless of how it may effect another why not just let everyone make all their own choices? Why should I have to abide in the speed limit when I have never had an accident speeding?


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

stekim said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Tell me is for you is "remarkably low" acceptable when it comes to someone being abuse, raped or sodomized?
> ...


Glad you got it despite my limited formal education.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



My philosophy is the following:  Raise the kids in such a manner that they are strong in their morals and principles.  If a kid can be strong in their beliefs, the child can be protected from the onslaught of peer pressure.  Also I'm of the mind that kids should work hard -- "The idle mind is the devil's playground."

There will always be kids who will stray far from the path no matter how much time and effort you spend on them, but the children who have the most problems are the ones from broken homes where parental supervision is not in abundance.  We can only do our best and hope for the best.


----------



## stekim (Apr 14, 2009)

> Glad you got it despite my limited formal education.




No sweat.  I'm here to help.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> Catz do you have a daughter? I kept a pretty close eye on mine when they were teens. Then I did try to give them some freedom to as to not quash them. My daughter at 16 had a regular boyfriend. I would not learn until she was twenty why she suddenly broke the relationship off with this boy that was not a full year older than her. They went together for almost two years. My daughter did not want to tell Rod or I that he put her up against the wall and tried to force himself onto her and that is why she dumped him.
> 
> As much as you think you may have a line on what is up in your childrens lives, you could learn different one day down the road. No matter how close you try to keep tabs on their safety. Preventive measures to protect others less fortunate is not to much to ask from society as a whole.



I have a 15 year old daughter.  

Let me be clear:  I don't believe your daughter was assaulted due to porn.  I don't believe that my duaghter will be assaulted due to porn.

I dealt with very sexually aggressive boys when I was 16.  Do you think that they learned to be sexually aggressive because of PORN?  Or because they were boys with a lot of testosterone pumping through their bodies?  I'd say the latter.

Frankly, if a boy tries to push my daughter's sexual boundaries, I fear for his safety.  I think she will kick his fucking ass.  That's the person I raised her to be.

Was chatting with some male friends of hers last night over dinner, in fact, and made that very comment.  Her male friends all agreed with that statement.  My daughter is in no way a pushover, and I have been extremely candid with her about sex.

My daughter is rather...fierce.  She knows who she is, and what her boundaries are.

See, you have to understand, Rodishi, that I've spent the last 19 years working with criminals.  I'm not naive about what teenagers get up to.  And, I have not raised a naive daughter.  I've raised a girl whose best friends are guys, and who can handle herself around guys.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> It was not a complaint. More like a point. For anyone to say it is does not "reflect on reality" elluding to the pretense that they have complete control over what their fifteen or eleven year old is exposed to, they are only fooling themselves. Believe it or not raising a child is more than "rocket science". Common sense plays a big part in it. It is more obvious than not that few have that in this day and age.
> 
> If one can't legislate in an effort to limit risk. Then tell me why does a society even have regulations, laws and rules in a society that people must live by? I mean surely if we cannot limit risk through legislation every should be allowed to dump their own trash as they see fit, right? I mean if we are going to have a loose society where everyone decides what's best for themselves regardless of how it may effect another why not just let everyone make all their own choices? Why should I have to abide in the speed limit when I have never had an accident speeding?



Do you believe, realistically speaking, that you can remove all risk from your child's life?


----------



## stekim (Apr 14, 2009)

What does putting her up against the wall and trying to force himself onto her have to do with porn?  Did he say porn made him do it?  Or do you think it was raging hormones, poor impulse control and a dose of bad parenting?   Maybe we should ban those things.


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

PoliticalChic said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


It can happen even with families with two parents. If the parents preoccupied to spend time with their children or actually watch them. Which is the case in many homes throughout the country. The majority of families now have both mom and dad working FT to make ends meet. Then looking back one family on our block where the mom stayed home and the dad worked was a mess. That particular mom would be classified as "religious fruitcake". She went so far over board her boys went totally the opposite direction.


----------



## Bootneck (Apr 14, 2009)

tigerbob said:


> Fine if you like that kid of thing, but there have to be better ways to spend your time and money.



Unless you're stuck out in the wilderness in a grungy FOB, with no beer, boil-in-the bag rations and wondering whether Terry T will be lobbing over his regular dose of mortars and rocket grenades.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> It can happen even with families with two parents. If the parents preoccupied to spend time with their children or actually watch them. Which is the case in many homes throughout the country. The majority of families now have both mom and dad working FT to make ends meet. Then looking back one family on our block where the mom stayed home and the dad worked was a mess. That particular mom would be classified as "religious fruitcake". She went so far over board her boys went totally the opposite direction.



Who knew porn was so incredibly dangerous???!!!???111

Hold me, Stekim.  I'm frightened.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



Yes, you're right about that.  I know this one family that is completely intact and both the mother and father came from good families.  The problem is that both the parents are so meek that the children run the house.  I hear smart things coming out of one of the kid's mouth, but neither parent says anything about it.  It's sad because the children are basically, but when you sit idly by and let children behave poorly, it doesn't bode well for the kids.


----------



## xsited1 (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm opposed to any government-enforced limits on free expression whatsoever.  I would strike down all anti-pornography laws as unwarranted interference with private and voluntary acts (leaving in place laws punishing, for example, coercion of minors for the production of pornography).


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Do you believe, realistically speaking, that you can remove all risk from your child's life?


No. I do believe that as a whole society can be better informed so less children will be at risk. I also agree with drawing lines in the sand that should not be crossed. Educating people why those lines should not be cross would better prevent those tragedies.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> No. I do believe that as a whole society can be better informed so less children will be at risk. I also agree with drawing lines in the sand that should not be crossed. Educating people why those lines should not be cross would better prevent those tragedies.



You are almost as good as Skydancer at saying nothing in way too many words.


----------



## PoliticalChic (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > No. I do believe that as a whole society can be better informed so less children will be at risk. I also agree with drawing lines in the sand that should not be crossed. Educating people why those lines should not be cross would better prevent those tragedies.
> ...



That's not fair to compare RodISHI to Skydancer.  I understood what she was saying and I don't think RodISHI is blaming porn for all the ills of society.


----------



## Sarah G (Apr 14, 2009)

I don't care whether anyone watches porn, I just never got into it.   The actors are usually ugly and they make these fake noises that get me laughing more than anything else.


----------



## DvDud1 (Apr 14, 2009)

stekim said:


> > I'm no prude, believe me...but the prevalence of porn IS a problem where our young people are concerned
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're misrepresenting what I said, Stickem...
_"...that Little Johnny next door...(is) starting to think that your daughter would look pretty good all tied up, greased up, and sodomized like the girl in that movie he saw"..._
In other words, I'm stating that viewing graphic hardcore pornography at a young age can contribute to kids getting a warped/distorted view of sexuality, also disrespect and a disconnect toward the opposite sex.
Do you dispute that?
There's no shortage of information available on the subject, and actually common sense should be able to tell you that porn may distort the way some kids come to view sex, but as for links-I'll let you hunt for them...you can google "children, pornography" if you'd like, I'll pass.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

I think porn is an easy scapegoat for the unthinkable.  But, I don't think the two are connected.  Nor do I believe that censoring free speech would make my daughter safer.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

DvDud1 said:


> You're misrepresenting what I said, Stickem...
> _"...that Little Johnny next door...(is) starting to think that your daughter would look pretty good all tied up, greased up, and sodomized like the girl in that movie he saw"..._
> In other words, I'm stating that viewing graphic hardcore pornography at a young age can contribute to kids getting a warped/distorted view of sexuality, also disrespect and a disconnect toward the opposite sex.
> Do you dispute that?
> There's no shortage of information available on the subject, and actually common sense should be able to tell you that porn may distort the way some kids come to view sex, but as for links-I'll let you hunt for them...you can google "children, pornography" if you'd like, I'll pass.



I think you are being hyperbolic regarding the extent of the problem.


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

PoliticalChic said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


Mine still remember 'picking their own switches' and mom's backhand. It was rare but occassionally warranted. I'll post a poem my daughter wrote for me when she was 11. The line about the "mean ole witch saying go pick a switch" will give you an idea how strict I was. Then if you ask either of them if they can recall getting spanked neither can. It was the humility of having to pick the switch to get swattted with that got to them. Although son recalls my back hand in the car one day when he was 14. Even now he says he deserved a heck of a lot more than that.

Parents that let their children rule over themselves aren't doing them any favors.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

Sarah G said:


> The actors are usually ugly and they make these fake noises that get me laughing more than anything else.



The standard women of porn and their "O" faces are indeed laughable.

This is a very timely discussion because my son happened onto some porn on the internet a few weeks ago.  I always look through the history on the computer, so of course, I figured out relatively quickly what he'd been doing.  I use firefox, so I installed some censors that should limit his opportunities to view porn.

I don't believe that he is now significantly more likely to sodomize someone.  I think he was curious about sex, saw some people having sex, and had his curiousity satisfied. 

I see it as NORMAL, not something to have a freak out about.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> Mine still remember 'picking their own switches' and mom's backhand. It was rare but occassionally warranted. I'll post a poem my daughter wrote for me when she was 11. The line about the "mean ole witch saying go pick a switch" will give you an idea how strict I was. Then if you ask either of them if they can recall getting spanked neither can. It was the humility of having to pick the switch to get swattted with that got to them. Although son recalls my back hand in the car one day when he was 14. Even now he says he deserved a heck of a lot more than that.
> 
> Parents that let their children rule over themselves aren't doing them any favors.



The ironic aspect of your comments is that there is a VERY STRONG correlation between the type of discipline you used with your children and later sexual victimization.



> After analysing the results of four studies, Straus came to the conclusion that *spanking and other corporal punishment by parents are associated with an increased probability of three sexual problems as a teen or adult *- Verbally and physically coercing a dating partner to have sex; Risky sex such as premarital sex without a condom; and *Masochistic sex such as being aroused by being spanked when having sex*.
> 
> &#8220;These results, together with the results of more than 100 other studies, suggest that *spanking is one of the roots of relationship violence and mental health problems*. Because there is 93 percent agreement between studies that investigated harmful side effects of spanking, and because over 90 percent of U.S. parents spank toddlers, the potential benefits for prevention of sexual and relationship violence is large,&#8221; Straus says.
> 
> Spanking kids can cause sexual problems later in life



*Children who learn to experience love from their parents in the form of physical pain and emotional humiliation REPEAT THAT PATTERN IN THEIR INTIMATE RELATIONSHIPS.*
Try that one on for size.

More from the study:



> Straus concludes that corporal punishment weakens the bond between the child and the parents. He believes that this alienation from parents may make teenagers less likely to avoid sex and less likely to follow safe sex practices.



Your daughter's poem affirms this finding.


----------



## stekim (Apr 14, 2009)

DvDud1 said:


> In other words, I'm stating that viewing graphic hardcore pornography at a young age can contribute to kids getting a warped/distorted view of sexuality, also disrespect and a disconnect toward the opposite sex.



I suppose it could depending on what it was the people were doing.  Just watching two people have sex isn't likely to do that.   But as with most things it's not the fault of the porn.  It's the fault of the other "p" word:  "Parents".  And I promise you parents screw up far more kids than porn.  So I say we ban parents.


----------



## manifold (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> *If one can't legislate in an effort to limit risk. Then tell me why does a society even have regulations, laws and rules in a society that people must live by? *I mean surely if we cannot limit risk through legislation every should be allowed to dump their own trash as they see fit, right? I mean if we are going to have a loose society where everyone decides what's best for themselves regardless of how it may effect another why not just let everyone make all their own choices? Why should I have to abide in the speed limit when I have never had an accident speeding?



Of course you can mitigate risk with regulations, etc.  I never said anything to the contrary.  I said you cannot _eliminate_ risk.  Big difference.  The rest is just strawman bullshit, no offense.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

stekim said:


> I promise you parents screw up far more kids than porn.  So I say we ban parents.



I have to agree with you on this one.   But then I would be banning myself, and who would take care of the children?

Are you volunteering?


----------



## stekim (Apr 14, 2009)

Catzmeow said:
			
		

> The ironic aspect of your comments is that there is a VERY STRONG correlation between the type of discipline you used with your children and later sexual victimization.



Who are the wildest, most screwed up, most sexual kids in school (especially girls)?  The ones with the strictest parents, of course.  It's so cliche, but it's true.  There are exceptions, of course, but show me someone raised in a very strict home and I'll show you someone with the clap.


----------



## stekim (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> I have to agree with you on this one.   But then I would be banning myself, and who would take care of the children?
> 
> Are you volunteering?



In this case I think they are far better off with you.  I don't have FireFox or use any filters.  It blocks my porn.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

stekim said:


> Who are the wildest, most screwed up, most sexual kids in school (especially girls)?  The ones with the strictest parents, of course.  It's so cliche, but it's true.  There are exceptions, of course, but show me someone raised in a very strict home and I'll show someone with the clap.



Yup.  Been there, done that.


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Mine still remember 'picking their own switches' and mom's backhand. It was rare but occassionally warranted. I'll post a poem my daughter wrote for me when she was 11. The line about the "mean ole witch saying go pick a switch" will give you an idea how strict I was. Then if you ask either of them if they can recall getting spanked neither can. It was the humility of having to pick the switch to get swattted with that got to them. Although son recalls my back hand in the car one day when he was 14. Even now he says he deserved a heck of a lot more than that.
> ...


That is funny since you have not read the whole poem Catz. You do manage to jump to conclusions on people you have a desire to be against though don't you. The poem actually tells me how much she loves me, yet you have not read it have you. Like I said, I'll post it when I come across it. Until then spew on.


----------



## Sarah G (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > The actors are usually ugly and they make these fake noises that get me laughing more than anything else.
> ...



How old is he?


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> That is funny since you have not read the whole poem Catz. You do manage to jump to conclusions on people you have a desire to be against though don't you. The poem actually tells me how much she loves me, yet you have not read it have you. Like I said, I'll post it when I come across it. Until then spew on.



It's easier to blame porn.  Porn is evil and must be destroyed.


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

manifold said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > *If one can't legislate in an effort to limit risk. Then tell me why does a society even have regulations, laws and rules in a society that people must live by? *I mean surely if we cannot limit risk through legislation every should be allowed to dump their own trash as they see fit, right? I mean if we are going to have a loose society where everyone decides what's best for themselves regardless of how it may effect another why not just let everyone make all their own choices? Why should I have to abide in the speed limit when I have never had an accident speeding?
> ...


None taken. I do agree that we do the best we can to "mitigate risk" to children via regulation.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

Sarah G said:


> How old is he?



He's in 5th grade and recently discovered how much he enjoys his penis.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> That is funny since you have not read the whole poem Catz. You do manage to jump to conclusions on people you have a desire to be against though don't you. The poem actually tells me how much she loves me, yet you have not read it have you. Like I said, I'll post it when I come across it. Until then spew on.



I'm sure she does love you, Rodishi.  That doesn't remove the correlations between these types of discipline and later sexual victimization/risk-taking behavior.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> None taken. I do agree that we do the best we can to "mitigate risk" to children via regulation.



What regulation do you propose that effective parenting wouldn't make irrelevant?


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > That is funny since you have not read the whole poem Catz. You do manage to jump to conclusions on people you have a desire to be against though don't you. The poem actually tells me how much she loves me, yet you have not read it have you. Like I said, I'll post it when I come across it. Until then spew on.
> ...


Nothing more than your normal attempts to twist some bullshit here catz without really knowing jack-shit about someone. Is that really all you know how to do?


----------



## manifold (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> manifold said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...




But I think we might differ in our definition of "best,"  but I could be wrong.   I assume that to you, best means mitigate as much as possible regardless of the cost.  If so, we disagree.  To me, best means striking the appropriate balance between risk mitigation and preserving individual liberty.


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > None taken. I do agree that we do the best we can to "mitigate risk" to children via regulation.
> ...


What are your definitions of what effective parenting is?


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

manifold said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > manifold said:
> ...


We'd actually agree on, "best means striking the appropiate balance between risk mitigation and preserving individual liberty" with adults only in that scheme.


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > That is funny since you have not read the whole poem Catz. You do manage to jump to conclusions on people you have a desire to be against though don't you. The poem actually tells me how much she loves me, yet you have not read it have you. Like I said, I'll post it when I come across it. Until then spew on.
> ...


I did not know a girl going steady with a boy for several years was "risk-taking behavior". Leave it to you to presume that though.


----------



## KittenKoder (Apr 14, 2009)

Strange correlation, porn is less common in areas where there are fewer laws on indecent exposure. Look at the nude beaches and such ... it's just ... odd.


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

I enjoyed reading this article. Thought I'd add this link in here for it.

Not your father's pornography.
By: Byassee, Jason
Tuesday, January 1 2008


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

Another article link,

AIDS strikes porn-movie business.

I wonder if they have workers comp?


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> I did not know a girl going steady with a boy for several years was "risk-taking behavior". Leave it to you to presume that though.



You're the one who stated that she was in an abusive relationship.  And then, attempted to correlate it to porn.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> What are your definitions of what effective parenting is?



That which has the best outcomes with children.


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > I did not know a girl going steady with a boy for several years was "risk-taking behavior". Leave it to you to presume that though.
> ...



I was talking about how difficult it is to protect your children. I stated at 16 she had a regular boyfriend who put her against the wall and she broke it off with him. She did not tell us why she ended the relationship until she was twenty. You obviously assumed something different. I'll repeat. "As much as you think you may have a line on what is up in your childrens lives, you could learn different one day down the road. No matter how close you try to keep tabs on their safety."

Yet if you do want to relate anything to porn (soft or hard core) go for it. Society promotes acceptability for the abuse of females by males in many films the same as it does for extreme violence with films. That relates back to learned behavior.

Pornography: Towards a Non-sexist Policy


Report warns on porn risk to teens. 





> Social and psychological damage....
> 
> 
> On one hand, psychological experiments conducted in the 1980s suggested that repeated exposure to porn gave the male subjects more and more extreme tastes, caused them to be desensitised to the sufferings of rape and child abuse victims, and gave them inaccurate ideas of the commonness of extreme sexual practices.[5]
> ...


----------



## Father Time (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



Those films you speak of are not mainstream and are no 'promoted by society' unless you go by the premise that not banning something is the same as promoting it.


----------



## KittenKoder (Apr 14, 2009)

Father Time said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > catzmeow said:
> ...



Oh, that would just screw up our country ... LOL


----------



## Gunny (Apr 14, 2009)

Terry said:


> To each their own... Someone who needs porn on a regular bases is someone who has issues.  If a man watches it to spice up thier sex with a spouse...perhaps you should question why you need that spice...did you lose your love and attraction for said spouse?
> 
> Like I stated, to each thier own.



I don't see the logic to your statement.  For one, love and attraction for your spouse are NOT mutually inclusive.  Either can exist without the other.

Or, both can be just fine and one, the other or both STILL be bored with the SOS.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

Gunny said:


> I don't see the logic to your statement.  For one, love and attraction for your spouse are NOT mutually inclusive.  Either can exist without the other.
> 
> Or, both can be just fine and one, the other or both STILL be bored with the SOS.



I think that, in general, women tend to view pornography as much more threatening to the relationship than men do.


----------



## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

Father Time said:


> Those films you speak of are not mainstream and are no 'promoted by society' unless you go by the premise that not banning something is the same as promoting it.


Yet they are out there and all over the Internet. Someones supporting them.


----------



## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> Yet they are out there and all over the Internet. Someones supporting them.



It's an outrage, I tell you.  I think we need to get the pitchforks and torches out again.


----------



## Gunny (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see the logic to your statement.  For one, love and attraction for your spouse are NOT mutually inclusive.  Either can exist without the other.
> ...



I suppose.  They were talking about it on the radio the other day and it certainly appeared to be that way.  

The biggest question the women kept asking was:  "Why does he want to look at them instead of me?  What's wrong with me?"

And being true to our knuckledragging nature, the guys would answer with the usual, intellectual response:  "What's the big deal?"


----------



## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

Gunny said:


> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> > Gunny said:
> ...



If you're in the business of selling your milk, it's horrible to see women giving it away for free.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

Gunny said:


> I suppose.  They were talking about it on the radio the other day and it certainly appeared to be that way.
> 
> The biggest question the women kept asking was:  "Why does he want to look at them instead of me?  What's wrong with me?"
> 
> And being true to our knuckledragging nature, the guys would answer with the usual, intellectual response:  "What's the big deal?"



I think that women underestimate the call of the strange.  I'd sure as hell rather that my boyfriend look at porn (or a nice set of boobs) WITH ME versus feeling like he has to hide the fact that he's a guy from me, and do it behind my back.  I don't consider LOOKING to be CHEATING.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> If you're in the business of selling your milk, it's horrible to see women giving it away for free.



Will now be spending the rest of the evening contemplating which category I fall into.


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> > If you're in the business of selling your milk, it's horrible to see women giving it away for free.
> ...



Gunny told me to post something to keep you distracted.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> Gunny told me to post something to keep you distracted.



Success!  Am not sure if I should be charging more or if I'm a dirty skank who should be frowned upon by the herd.  Am somewhat concerned that it may be the latter, due to my relationship with the boyfriend.


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> > Gunny told me to post something to keep you distracted.
> ...



well y'all always gotta worry about that next one coming around the bend no matter how high you can climb up that stripper pole.


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## catzmeow (Apr 14, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> well y'all always gotta worry about that next one coming around the bend no matter how high you can climb up that stripper pole.



I'd love to comment but I have no fucking idea what you are talking about here.


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## Dis (Apr 14, 2009)

Indifferent.. Boys are boys.. If something excites them, they're going to look.  Doesn't mean they're going to leave you to go chase down the porn actress of the week... Everyone has something that someone else doesn't have... Maybe she's got better looking boobs..


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

Dis said:


> Indifferent.. Boys are boys.. If something excites them, they're going to look.  Doesn't mean they're going to leave you to go chase down the porn actress of the week... Everyone has something that someone else doesn't have... Maybe she's got better looking boobs..



pretty damn good call, dis.


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> > well y'all always gotta worry about that next one coming around the bend no matter how high you can climb up that stripper pole.
> ...



Gunny is gonna be so proud of me.


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## Gunny (Apr 14, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Yet they are out there and all over the Internet. Someones supporting them.
> ...



I think Rodishi DOES have a point.  Not sure it's as extreme as she is saying; however, my recollection of porn which admittedly was late-70s - early-80s, men WERE portrayed as dominant and abusive in general.  

Look at all the street racers nowadays?  You can't say the weak-minded aren't influenced by movies.


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

Gunny said:


> catzmeow said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



Everything has changed now Gunny----It's always the women beating the crap out of some poor naked dude. I make good money but it hurts like hell.


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## Gunny (Apr 14, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> > catzmeow said:
> ...





I wouldn't know.  Last one I saw was in the early 80s at a bachelor part.  I have no idea what they (you) do now.


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

Gunny said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> > Gunny said:
> ...



I'd show ya the "ending" but my contract and the board rules prevent it.


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## RodISHI (Apr 14, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> Everything has changed now Gunny----It's always the women beating the crap out of some poor naked dude. I make good money but it hurts like hell.


You poor thing. But if the money is good and your happy what the heck.


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

RodISHI said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> > Everything has changed now Gunny----It's always the women beating the crap out of some poor naked dude. I make good money but it hurts like hell.
> ...



that's what I figure---make a nice thread about me when I'm a dead and beat up porn star.


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## Gunny (Apr 14, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> > dilloduck said:
> ...


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## Gunny (Apr 14, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > dilloduck said:
> ...



Are you kidding?  We are S-O-O-O going to rag on you!


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## dilloduck (Apr 14, 2009)

Gunny said:


> dilloduck said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



shit----well then dedicate shitty songs to me then.


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## Dis (Apr 14, 2009)

dilloduck said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> > dilloduck said:
> ...



If you insist...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJFpFOWfv4Q]YouTube - Porn Theme Song (with solo on a Keytar)[/ame]


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## KittenKoder (Apr 14, 2009)

"Why are you showing me mold porn?"

LOL ... well ... it ALMOST fits ... doesn't it?


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## stekim (Apr 15, 2009)

Gunny said:


> I think Rodishi DOES have a point.  Not sure it's as extreme as she is saying; however, my recollection of porn which admittedly was late-70s - early-80s, men WERE portrayed as dominant and abusive in general.



That's not true now.  If you are talking about your everyday, garden variety porn (which accounts for the vast majority of the videos in your average porn shop) it's simply people having sex.  It's no more violent or abusive than, well, people having sex.  This being a country where we value free expression and free enterprise, however, there is certainly a category of porn for nearly every taste.  Some of it most of us would find pretty damn disgusting.  S&M is a popular subset.  The people in the video (both men and women by the way) are acting dominant and abusive.  Because that's the point of the video!  It's sort of like watching the Godfather and complaining that there was too much shooting and blood.  But just like the Godfather, it's not real abuse and no one is getting hurt.  I think people are attributing far more power to a video than is warranted.


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## KittenKoder (Apr 15, 2009)

Actually, BDSM was in a hay-day during the time Gunny mentioned, so it is true. It's no longer as popular, many seeing it for the abuse that it is thankfully.


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## catzmeow (Apr 15, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Actually, BDSM was in a hay-day during the time Gunny mentioned, so it is true. It's no longer as popular, many seeing it for the abuse that it is thankfully.



It's funny how Rodishi conveniently forgets to mention the Bettie Page era.


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## stekim (Apr 15, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Actually, BDSM was in a hay-day during the time Gunny mentioned, so it is true. It's no longer as popular, many seeing it for the abuse that it is thankfully.



It's not abuse if you like it!  Where I come from someone asking to be spanked is not being abused.  A battered wife is abused.  Let's not compare the two.  Just because someone likes to be spanked during sex does not mean they condone getting their ass kicked because dinner was cold.  Jeez.  And you may want to check out a porn store.  It's probably the most popular "specialty" category in the store aside from gay sex.


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## catzmeow (Apr 15, 2009)

Just...to be clear.  I don't particularly enjoy most porn.  It's artificial, contrived, and frankly - dull.  I don't want my kids watching porn.  But, I do think that in all our zeal to condemn online porn, we seem to forget, really easily, that it is really the job of parents to control their kids' online access.  I am not about allowing parents to abdicate their responsibilities.  If they can't facilitate ensuring that their children can safely access the internet without major snafus, then they shouldn't buy a goddamn computer and allow it to babysit their kids, in the first place.

Beyond that, as much of a role as the media plays in our society, it is insignificant in comparison to the role of responsible, responsive, involved parents.

Instead of censoring what I believe to be free speech, it's important for parents to step up and do their goddamn jobs.

That's my opinion on the matter.


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## KittenKoder (Apr 15, 2009)

stekim said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, BDSM was in a hay-day during the time Gunny mentioned, so it is true. It's no longer as popular, many seeing it for the abuse that it is thankfully.
> ...



There is a problem with that "asking and it's not abuse", we have seen that many who are abused regularly WILL ask for the abuse, simply because they equate it with love, which is the reason most people are now against BDSM. Unless all those involved are EXTREMELY stable mentally and have no history of abuse in the family, it's too much a risk to take. First thing you learn when getting help as an abused person, you have to break the cycle, you have to stop seeking out that abuse you are use to. It's like people who sleep on the floor for several years, then switch to a really soft mattress, same concept, abuse becomes the comfort zone.


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## catzmeow (Apr 15, 2009)

For the record, I have the same philosophy in regards to facebook/myspace.  My daughter has one, and has one them for years, since she started middle school.  I helped her create her myspace profile, and set it up so that only her friends, who knew her last name, could even see her or request to be added as a friend.  Parents really wig out about the internet these days, when in fact, it isn't that scary...IF YOU ARE INVOLVED IN YOUR KIDS' USE OF IT.

That's the key.  You can't keep your kids offline.  I've seen lots of parents of my kids' friends try to.  The kids end up going behind their backs, and then getting into all kinds of trouble.  Our kids are an internet culture these days.  Internet and text is what they use to communicate.  We, as parents, have to be that much smarter and more astute when it comes to internet usage.

My kids are both online gamers, I play the same games they do, and have for years, just to keep an eye on their activities and make sure they are safe.  And we talk about giving out info to strangers, and other kinds of safety protocols that our family has.

The internet is one area where I don't worry that much about my kids, because I am THERE, with them.


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## stekim (Apr 15, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> There is a problem with that "asking and it's not abuse", we have seen that many who are abused regularly WILL ask for the abuse, simply because they equate it with love, which is the reason most people are now against BDSM.



What does that even mean?  Most people are "against it"?  Do they want it banned?  Or do they just not like it?  Those are two far different things.  And the first part has nothing to do with S&M.  



> Unless all those involved are EXTREMELY stable mentally and have no history of abuse in the family, it's too much a risk to take.



And how do you propose the government determine this?  An S&M license?  



> First thing you learn when getting help as an abused person, you have to break the cycle, you have to stop seeking out that abuse you are use to.



That's all well and good for people who are actually being abused.  But it doesn't apply at all to people who just enjoy S&M.


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## catzmeow (Apr 15, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> There is a problem with that "asking and it's not abuse", we have seen that many who are abused regularly WILL ask for the abuse, simply because they equate it with love, which is the reason most people are now against BDSM. Unless all those involved are EXTREMELY stable mentally and have no history of abuse in the family, it's too much a risk to take. First thing you learn when getting help as an abused person, you have to break the cycle, you have to stop seeking out that abuse you are use to. It's like people who sleep on the floor for several years, then switch to a really soft mattress, same concept, abuse becomes the comfort zone.



I totally understand what you are saying.  However, speaking as someone that has been there, done that, for some people, it is a way of reinventing the abuse they suffered, where they can write an alternate ending that is healthier than the way things ended when they were kids.

My parents were big on hitting us.  My brother and I got hit most weeks, often in the face.  I walked around a few times with handprints on my face where my mom had slapped me hard enough to leave a bruise.  No one ever asked why.  I thought it was normal.  I thought all kids were hit with switches, wooden spoons, hands, spatulas, hangers, and belts.  That's how my parents were raised, and that's how they raised us.  Our home was very high in terms of the level of violence directed at the kids, and the level of hostility between our parents.

Even when I was working, for years, with abused kids, I didn't realize that my upbringing was abnormal.  It literally took me 20 years to work this shit out inside of my head.

I will say that, personally, I don't think that a spanking now and then is damaging.  I do think that people who have a sexual need to be humiliated and degraded, though, probably have issues in their upbringing that they need to deal with.

I don't hit my kids.  My parents cured me of the idea that it was effective parenting.  There are literally dozens of possible responses when your children break the rules.  Hitting is the least effective in almost every scenario, based upon research, with the exception of a minimal smack on the butt to a 2-year-old who is simply out of control.  

The detrimental impact of hitting your children, especially after the toddler years, is really long-lasting, and it comes out in ways that we really don't understand. Reading the study that I linked for Rodishi really impacted me, because I fell into the most high-risk category as a result of my upbringing, and I definitely see a correlation looking back over the last 40+ years of my life.


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## KittenKoder (Apr 15, 2009)

stekim said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > There is a problem with that "asking and it's not abuse", we have seen that many who are abused regularly WILL ask for the abuse, simply because they equate it with love, which is the reason most people are now against BDSM.
> ...



Wow .. um ... really, are you trying to look for an argument?

1. Against it is a broad scoped term, some just don't want to see it and choose not to, others try to get it banned. I don't view porn so you could say I fall into the first type by default.

2. I don't give a rat's ass what the government does and don't think they should give a rat's ass about what people do with their own lives.

3. People can think they enjoy something even when it hurts them, so that is just a stupid assumption on your part. Seems you know little about what it's like to be abused or you were just lucky enough to be one of the few who didn't fall into the cycle.

Catz understood what I said and meant, but then since you're new I will excuse this slip of the tongue and not hold it against you.


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## KittenKoder (Apr 15, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > There is a problem with that "asking and it's not abuse", we have seen that many who are abused regularly WILL ask for the abuse, simply because they equate it with love, which is the reason most people are now against BDSM. Unless all those involved are EXTREMELY stable mentally and have no history of abuse in the family, it's too much a risk to take. First thing you learn when getting help as an abused person, you have to break the cycle, you have to stop seeking out that abuse you are use to. It's like people who sleep on the floor for several years, then switch to a really soft mattress, same concept, abuse becomes the comfort zone.
> ...



A lot depends on how it is handled and viewed by those involved, so I grant that possibility.

I was abused medically and religiously (yes, my hang ups about a specific religion stem from that) which was not recognized as abuse until long after I had moved out. I never saw spanking as abuse if done "lightly" and with a lecture of why. The lecture to me was the best punishment dealt, my father could lecture for hours, I think I inherited his longwindedness myself ...


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## catzmeow (Apr 15, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Catz understood what I said and meant, but then since you're new I will excuse this slip of the tongue and not hold it against you.



He might like it if you held your slip of the tongue against him.


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## stekim (Apr 15, 2009)

KittenKoder said:
			
		

> 3. People can think they enjoy something even when it hurts them, so that is just a stupid assumption on your part.



What is a stupid assumption?  I'm afraid I didn't quite follow you here.  



> Seems you know little about what it's like to be abused or you were just lucky enough to be one of the few who didn't fall into the cycle.



Or maybe I just know what abuse really is and what it's clearly not.


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## Dis (Apr 15, 2009)

stekim said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your avatar has a really high creep factor..


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## KittenKoder (Apr 15, 2009)

stekim said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Begs the question: have you lived with abuse ... ever?

Have you had your whole existence taken down to the level of being nothing more than an object by anyone, especially your own parent(s)? Have you ever been told every day that you "asked for this"? That's abuse, all abuse is based on these principles, whether it's physical, mental, medical, religious, sexual, or any other form. If you have not then you do not know what abuse really is.


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## catzmeow (Apr 15, 2009)

Dis said:


> Your avatar has a really high creep factor..



Just imagine his porn consumption.


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## catzmeow (Apr 15, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Begs the question: have you lived with abuse ... ever?
> 
> Have you had your whole existence taken down to the level of being nothing more than an object by anyone, especially your own parent(s)? Have you ever been told every day that you "asked for this"? That's abuse, all abuse is based on these principles, whether it's physical, mental, medical, religious, sexual, or any other form. If you have not then you do not know what abuse really is.



I get it, Kitten.  But an occasional smack on the ass during sex does not equal abuse.  It just doesn't.  Nor does a bite on the nape of the neck.

mmmm.

Okay, starting to get distracted now, must refocus on work.


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## stekim (Apr 15, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Begs the question: have you lived with abuse ... ever?



Yes.  And just like someone who has actually been the victim of racism or sexual assault I find it a tad insulting when people call something "abuse" when it's quite clearly not.  It cheapens the actual abuse.  Some people get turned on sexually by a little hair pulling, spanking or whatever.  That's 180 degress from "abuse".


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## stekim (Apr 15, 2009)

Dis said:


> Your avatar has a really high creep factor..



You should see me in real life.


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## KittenKoder (Apr 15, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Begs the question: have you lived with abuse ... ever?
> ...



I wasn't posting that to you, but if it floats your boat I won't argue it, as I said, with full BDSM both parties need to be stable (or possibly in with the goal you mentioned).


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## KittenKoder (Apr 15, 2009)

stekim said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Begs the question: have you lived with abuse ... ever?
> ...



Really, what did I post that was not abuse? Inquiring minds want to know ... maybe not but it would be interested to see how you marginalize one form of abuse like they use to before they finally recognized what it really is.

Oh, and if you think BDSM is really just "a little hair pulling" then you REALLY have no idea what we are talking about.


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## stekim (Apr 15, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Oh, and if you think BDSM is really just "a little hair pulling" then you REALLY have no idea what we are talking about.



Doesn't matter what it is, dear.  It's still not abuse.  You are like the Jesse Jackson of abuse.  It's everywhere I tell you.


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## KittenKoder (Apr 15, 2009)

stekim said:


> KittenKoder said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, and if you think BDSM is really just "a little hair pulling" then you REALLY have no idea what we are talking about.
> ...



Really, this is not abuse?

*Scratch that, I won't post it. Search for it on your own if you want.*


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## stekim (Apr 15, 2009)

I don't know.  We have a Nanny filter at work and I cannot access the site.  It must have a meta tag with sex in it.  But if whatever was happening invloved two consenting adults who could walk away at anytime it is not abuse.


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## catzmeow (Apr 15, 2009)

stekim said:


> But if whatever was happening invloved two consenting adults who could walk away at anytime it is not abuse.



I do have to agree with this.


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## KittenKoder (Apr 15, 2009)

catzmeow said:


> stekim said:
> 
> 
> > But if whatever was happening invloved two consenting adults who could walk away at anytime it is not abuse.
> ...



I pointed out the difference between it being abuse and the time it's not. Stekim is trying to say it's "never" abuse, which is dishonest and denying not only the potential but the fact that it is often taken to abusive levels while the abused is unaware of such. He is basically saying that abused people ask for it in this instance, while I pointed out that they are not knowingly asking for it.


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## stekim (Apr 15, 2009)

KittenKoder said:


> Stekim is trying to say it's "never" abuse, which is dishonest and denying not only the potential but the fact that it is often taken to abusive levels while the abused is unaware of such.



If you are conscious you cannot be abused without you knowing it.


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