# Air force or Marines?



## t_samford

Which is a better branch to join USAF or USMC?  What are the benefits of both and which has better jobs?


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## RetiredGySgt

Depends. If you have REAL good scores and want a lock on jobs, go Air Force. Of Course the Air Force is very picky.

If you want to actually BE in the military and not be in the civilian sorta military go Marine Corps.

Make sure if you go Marine Corps you get what ever deals you make IN WRITING and TAKE THEM to boot camp with you. Make sure the deal actually says what you think it says too.

Air Force is very people orientated. They take good care of their people. Marine Corps takes care of their people also BUT mission comes first ALWAYS.

An Example if you will...

Air Force builds a new Base with Airfield, first thing they build is all the housing, rec facilities, barracks, chow halls and support structures. When they run out of money they then ask for more and point out they haven't built the air field yet.

Marine Corps Builds a new Base. First thing they build is all the training facilities, Ranges, Repair facilities , armories, Work Facilities and if they run out of money ( which they usually don't) then they get more for the barracks and the rec facilities ( Chow Halls were in the first batch as a mission requirement).


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## t_samford

What would you suggest for someone with a score of 86 on the ASVAB?


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## RetiredGySgt

t_samford said:


> What would you suggest for someone with a score of 86 on the ASVAB?



What do you want? Marine Corps has technical Jobs and support jobs of course and they are very good, but they probably want the combat arms people more.

The Air Force is VERY picky, see if you can even get an appointment to see the recruiter.

Bonus money is gonna be in Combat Arms for Marine Corps if there is any while the Air force may not even have bonus money.


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## Gem

My husband is Air Force, so I am biased.  I agree with what RGS is saying though in the idea that the Air Force is going to be more laid-back, people-oriented than the Marines.  That being said, the military is still the military...the Air Force will still treat you like a commodity if it needs to (My husband had his leave to come home for our wedding canceled a week before our wedding - he had to go to the base Colonel to have it reinstated and I didn't know if I'd have a groom until 3 days prior, lol).

RGS is also correct about bases...AF has some of the nicest, but be careful - I spent 4 years in North Dakota and it doesn't really matter how nice your BX is when its -46 in October!


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## RetiredGySgt

Well ask your self this....

When you wear your Dress Uniform do you want to look like a MArine or a Bus Driver?


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## Gem

Boo....

An Air Force Officer and a Marine were in the bathroom at the urinal.  The Marine finished first, washed his hands, and was drying them when the AF Officer finished, zipped up, and started to walk out of the bathroom.

The Marine said to the Airman, "You know, in the Marines they teach us to wash our hands after going to the bathroom."

The Airman smiled over his shoulder and replies, "You know, in the Air Force they teach us not to piss on our hands."


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## t_samford

Gem said:


> Boo....
> 
> An Air Force Officer and a Marine were in the bathroom at the urinal.  The Marine finished first, washed his hands, and was drying them when the AF Officer finished, zipped up, and started to walk out of the bathroom.
> 
> The Marine said to the Airman, "You know, in the Marines they teach us to wash our hands after going to the bathroom."
> 
> The Airman smiled over his shoulder and replies, "You know, in the Air Force they teach us not to piss on our hands."



Haha!!! thats funny well i just recently sent in my discharge in to the usmc because i feel like the air force is better for me. Its not tht i'm scared its just that i wanna do whats best for me.


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## Mr. President

GO ARMY its the best of both worlds!!!!!!!


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## Mad Scientist

True story. I went to the USMC recruiter back in 1982 (one year out of H.S.) and asked him: Why should I join the Marines? What can they do for me?" His answer:
"You need to join the Corp. The Corp is the *best*!"
I said: "Yeah I know. That's why I'm here talking to you first. But tell me, what can I do in the corp? What can the Corp do for me?"
Again he answered: "You just need to join the Corp. The Corp is the *best*!"
I then said: "Uh, I'm gonna go next door and talk to the Air Force for a minute, I'll be right back". I had already decided against the Army and Navy.
I went next door, walked up to an Air Force guy and said I was interested in joining but I wanted to know "Why should I join the Air Force? What can the Air Force do for me?"
The guy was a little shorter than me, had a paunch, his hair was touching his ears and he had a coffee cup in his hand. I remember all this very clearly.
He replied: "Look man, I don't care if you join if you join the Air Force or not". I knew right then, the AF was for me! 
Like a previous poster said, The AF is more like civilians but let me tell you this: The Marine Corp wears it's people out! Compare and contrast ANY two retired AF and Marine service people. Marines look 10-20 years older. What would you rather be?

Don't get me wrong I'm not knockin' the Marines. Any branch of service is a good move for your future. But I'm really glad I didn't join the Marines. The Air Force is a much better service for quality of life issues. Yearly surveys on quality of life always show that to be true.
Ask any service member on this board and they'll agree with me.
Everywhere I was deployed either for a remote tour or temporary duty, the chow was *always great*! And the AF never sent me any place I couldn't get laid. Think about it. 
PM me if you wanna' talk some more.


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## Againsheila

I'm an Air Force brat, so I have to say Air Force.

My father used to say that Marines should have training before they get out of the service, just so they can become people again.


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## hjmick

Coast Guard.


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## t_samford

Mad Scientist said:


> True story. I went to the USMC recruiter back in 1982 (one year out of H.S.) and asked him: Why should I join the Marines? What can they do for me?" His answer:
> "You need to join the Corp. The Corp is the *best*!"
> I said: "Yeah I know. That's why I'm here talking to you first. But tell me, what can I do in the corp? What can the Corp do for me?"
> Again he answered: "You just need to join the Corp. The Corp is the *best*!"
> I then said: "Uh, I'm gonna go next door and talk to the Air Force for a minute, I'll be right back". I had already decided against the Army and Navy.
> I went next door, walked up to an Air Force guy and said I was interested in joining but I wanted to know "Why should I join the Air Force? What can the Air Force do for me?"
> The guy was a little shorter than me, had a paunch, his hair was touching his ears and he had a coffee cup in his hand. I remember all this very clearly.
> He replied: "Look man, I don't care if you join if you join the Air Force or not". I knew right then, the AF was for me!
> Like a previous poster said, The AF is more like civilians but let me tell you this: The Marine Corp wears it's people out! Compare and contrast ANY two retired AF and Marine service people. Marines look 10-20 years older. What would you rather be?
> 
> Don't get me wrong I'm not knockin' the Marines. Any branch of service is a good move for your future. But I'm really glad I didn't join the Marines. The Air Force is a much better service for quality of life issues. Yearly surveys on quality of life always show that to be true.
> Ask any service member on this board and they'll agree with me.
> Everywhere I was deployed either for a remote tour or temporary duty, the chow was *always great*! And the AF never sent me any place I couldn't get laid. Think about it.
> PM me if you wanna' talk some more.



Thanks man I really appreciate your help. USAF all the way.


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## Gunny

Gem said:


> Boo....
> 
> An Air Force Officer and a Marine were in the bathroom at the urinal.  The Marine finished first, washed his hands, and was drying them when the AF Officer finished, zipped up, and started to walk out of the bathroom.
> 
> The Marine said to the Airman, "You know, in the Marines they teach us to wash our hands after going to the bathroom."
> 
> The Airman smiled over his shoulder and replies, "You know, in the Air Force they teach us not to piss on our hands."



You forgot the rest ... the Marine then grabbed the Airman's head by the jaw giving it a violent jerk to the right and solved ALL his pissing problems.


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## Gunny

Againsheila said:


> I'm an Air Force brat, so I have to say Air Force.
> 
> My father used to say that Marines should have training before they get out of the service, just so they can become people again.



That's no reason to join a service.  I'm an Air Force brat AND retired Marine.  Your father has a typical, snooty elistist Air Force mentality.  They all acted like that toward us.  I was usually most offended because I had spent the first 18 years of my life on one Air Force base or another.

The answer to the question is as simple as this:

If you want to be a Marine, you join the Marines.

If you're just looking for a job, join the Air Force.


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## Andrew2382

Gunny said:


> You forgot the rest ... the Marine then grabbed the Airman's head by the jaw giving it a violent jerk to the right and solved ALL his pissing problems.




lmao


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## Againsheila

Gunny said:


> That's no reason to join a service.  I'm an Air Force brat AND retired Marine.  Your father has a typical, snooty elistist Air Force mentality.  They all acted like that toward us.  I was usually most offended because I had spent the first 18 years of my life on one Air Force base or another.
> 
> The answer to the question is as simple as this:
> 
> If you want to be a Marine, you join the Marines.
> 
> If you're just looking for a job, join the Air Force.



I think his point was that marines were trained so well to fight, that they needed time to be transitioned back into the civilian world.  It never came off as a crack against the marines to me, rather one of respect for them.

My father is gone...has been since shortly after 9/11.  He retired from the Air force in the late 60's and spent the rest of his life making two other careers.  One as an accountant and another as a professor.

BTW, my father joined the Air Force when it was the ARMY.  Yep, he joined the Army and retired from the Air Force without changing jobs.  He started as an enlisted man and worked his way up to officer, he retired as a Major.  Do you know how few people do that?  I don't think you could call him "snooty" and It upsets me that you would try when you don't know him at all.  I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't intended, and yes, I do take your attack on my father personally.

BTW, I lived most of my life OFF of the Air Force bases, I did meet a lot of snooty people on base.  One girl treated me like garbage until she discovered my father was a Major, suddenly, I was good enough to be her friend.  yeah, I didn't give her the time of day.

My parents always taught us to treat everyone the same.  That's why they had friends all around the world.  It's also a good reason why I have friends in so many different countries.


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## Shooter1/1

I will say this, as a former enlisted Marine, I worked with great people from all branches of service. The real question, and Guns started to get at it, is 'do I want to stand apart?'. Many of these folks have pointed out some real great reasons to join the Air Force. Yes the over all quality of life is better. However, I can say that there is no equal to the pride of service you see amongst Marines. yes in some certain units of the other branches of service you will find great Esprit de Corps, but no other entire service is as proud as we few. To say that one wants to be a Marine is to say that you want to belong to a new and seperate family, a Clan, almost another Race of people. One other note, in my working with other services the one thing that stood out is the lack of politics in the promotion and advancement of Marines. In sister services it is often about who you know and how they can help. The Marine Corps might represent the last true Meritocracy amongst the services. 


    I do have one question for the poster, and I might have missed the answer somewhere in here but what is it you want to do in the service? that is a huge consideration.


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## eots

Obamas...  new domestic security force is the where the future is..


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## t_samford

Gunny said:


> That's no reason to join a service.  I'm an Air Force brat AND retired Marine.  Your father has a typical, snooty elistist Air Force mentality.  They all acted like that toward us.  I was usually most offended because I had spent the first 18 years of my life on one Air Force base or another.
> 
> The answer to the question is as simple as this:
> 
> If you want to be a Marine, you join the Marines.
> 
> If you're just looking for a job, join the Air Force.



There is nothing wrong with the air force. Every branch of the military will do you right.


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## Gunny

Againsheila said:


> I think his point was that marines were trained so well to fight, that they needed time to be transitioned back into the civilian world.  It never came off as a crack against the marines to me, rather one of respect for them.
> 
> My father is gone...has been since shortly after 9/11.  He retired from the Air force in the late 60's and spent the rest of his life making two other careers.  One as an accountant and another as a professor.
> 
> BTW, my father joined the Air Force when it was the ARMY.  Yep, he joined the Army and retired from the Air Force without changing jobs.  He started as an enlisted man and worked his way up to officer, he retired as a Major.  Do you know how few people do that?  I don't think you could call him "snooty" and It upsets me that you would try when you don't know him at all.  I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't intended, and yes, I do take your attack on my father personally.
> 
> BTW, I lived most of my life OFF of the Air Force bases, I did meet a lot of snooty people on base.  One girl treated me like garbage until she discovered my father was a Major, suddenly, I was good enough to be her friend.  yeah, I didn't give her the time of day.
> 
> My parents always taught us to treat everyone the same.  That's why they had friends all around the world.  It's also a good reason why I have friends in so many different countries.



The Air Force treated us like shit.  I was home on leave and went to the club out at Lackland one night and the club manager looked at my ID for a few minutes then said he'd let me in if I promised to not tear down his club.

We weren't allowed in the Air Force clubs on Kadena AFB.

I mean no disrepesct toward your father at all.  I just understand his mentality as I have been subjected to it more than a few times.  

BTW ... my father also started out in the Army and did a lat move after his first enlistment.


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## Gunny

t_samford said:


> There is nothing wrong with the air force. Every branch of the military will do you right.



You missed my point.  It wasn't aimed at the Air Force.  It was questioning YOU as a person.  

I believe I previously mentioned I grew up in the Air Force.  My father is a retired CMSgt.  I have nothing against it.  Well, except they wear highwaters off the rack.

My point is what are YOU looking for?  What do YOU want to be?  If you are looking for a job, then don't join the Marines.  You won't survive happily.  It's a different mentality.  Marines want to be Marines.  If you don't, then I suggest any other service.  That's all I'm saying.


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## Gunny

t_samford said:


> There is nothing wrong with the air force. Every branch of the military will do you right.



Oh btw ... don't be a sucker.  Every branch of the service will do you, alright.  Give them a chance.  You'll be a cook on the flightline thinking you're going into avionics.


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## Andrew2382

Marines, cause they have the best quotes

WE STOLE THE EAGLE FROM THE AIR FORCE, THE ANCHOR FROM THE NAVY AND THE ROPE FROM THE ARMY. 

ON THE SEVENTH DAY WHILE GOD RESTED, WE OVERRAN HIS PERIMETER, STOLE THE GLOBE AND WE'VE BEEN RUNNING THE WHOLE SHOW EVER SINCE. 


We have two companies of MARINES running all over this island and thousands of ARMY troops doing nothing!"

So they've got us surrounded, good! Now we can fire in any direction, those bastards won't get away this time!"

Good stuff!


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## Mad Scientist

Gunny said:


> The Air Force treated us like shit.  I was home on leave and went to the club out at Lackland one night and the club manager looked at my ID for a few minutes then said he'd let me in if I promised to not tear down his club.
> We weren't allowed in the Air Force clubs on Kadena AFB.


I was stationed at Kadena from 1989-1992. 18th SPS. That's what some Marines did most of the time, tear shit up. *Some* Marines never learn when to switch it on and switch it off.
This is why the AF is the better quality of life service. And truth be told, honorable discharges from *all* branches of service are of *equal value*.


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## Mad Scientist

Andrew2382 said:


> Marines, cause they have the best quotes
> WE STOLE THE EAGLE FROM THE AIR FORCE, THE ANCHOR FROM THE NAVY AND THE ROPE FROM THE ARMY.
> ON THE SEVENTH DAY WHILE GOD RESTED, WE OVERRAN HIS PERIMETER, STOLE THE GLOBE AND WE'VE BEEN RUNNING THE WHOLE SHOW EVER SINCE.
> We have two companies of MARINES running all over this island and thousands of ARMY troops doing nothing!"
> So they've got us surrounded, good! Now we can fire in any direction, those bastards won't get away this time!"
> Good stuff!


           A sailor in a bar leans over to the guy next to him and says, ''Wanna hear a MARINE joke?''   The guy next to him replies, ''Well, before you tell that joke, you should know something. I'm 6' tall, 200 lbs, and I'm a MARINE. The guy sitting next to me is 6'2'' tall, weighs 225, and he's a MARINE. The fella next to him is 6'5'' tall, weighs 250, and he's also a MARINE. Now, you still wanna tell that joke?'' 
The sailor says, ''Nah, I don't want to have to explain it three times.''         

Did you know the Navy is switching to powdered soap? It takes longer to bend over and pick up.

Having passed the enlistment physical, Jon was asked by the doctor, "Why do you want to join the Air Force, son?"
"My father said it'd be a good idea, Sir."
"Oh? And what does your father do?"
"He's in the Army, Sir."


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## Andrew2382

lmao

My favorite saying still is what Navy people say about the Coast Guard

"You gotta be at least 6 feet tall so in case the ship sinks you can walk back to shore"


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## Gunny

Mad Scientist said:


> I was stationed at Kadena from 1989-1992. 18th SPS. That's what some Marines did most of the time, tear shit up. *Some* Marines never learn when to switch it on and switch it off.
> This is why the AF is the better quality of life service. And truth be told, honorable discharges from *all* branches of service are of *equal value*.



But don't make mention of the fact that Airmen were dumb enough to start an equal amount of the altercations.  Why some zoomie would take his candy ass up and bust a bottle over the smallest Marine in the group's head is beyond me.  Tough shit if our displeasure got reigsitered on any-and-everything Air Force in sight.  

Don't tug on Superman's cape and you don't get the taste slapped out of your head.

You can say the Air Force is the better quality of life service, but I disagree.  The Air Force gets better "stuff."  The Air Force does NOT take better care if its people.  All that fancy-ass "stuff" ain't worth shit without the people.

I also don't see where your analogy supports that statement.  The fact that Marines tore YOUR shit up doesn't have a damned thing to do with quality of life.  It just means Marines are smarter than you think. They shit in YOUR yard, not their own.

Legally, all discharges are equal.  I guarantee you I get a different reaction whe I tell people I'm a retired jarhead than you get telling them you were in the Air Force.  We got a retired zoomie where I work.  His name's Rick.  My names "that crazy-ass Marine that'll do anything for a thrill."  

There's a difference.


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## RetiredGySgt

Mad Scientist said:


> I was stationed at Kadena from 1989-1992. 18th SPS. That's what some Marines did most of the time, tear shit up. *Some* Marines never learn when to switch it on and switch it off.
> This is why the AF is the better quality of life service. And truth be told, honorable discharges from *all* branches of service are of *equal value*.



I was in Okinawa from 90 to 93 Also 80 to 84. Marines got banned from the Kadana water rec area too, why? Cause a bunch of airmen had a riot and the Marines got blamed for it. Funny thing is when you check the blotter it was only air force personnel that got charged for any damages, they turned over a car and damaged some boats.

Also when ever I went to a Local beach it was never drunk Marines harrassing the locals it was drunk Airmen. Why? Cause if a Marine caught a Marine doing that we stopped them.

Now marines were rough on each other marines, some dumb shit Marines killed another Marine cause he was landing support and wore a red tag on his camo trousers. They caught the bastards and put them away for a LONG time.

On Okinawa the Air Force Command were assholes. The entire housing on ALL okinawa is supposed to be controlled by one source. Air force personnel can live in ANY housing area on the Island. Marines could only live on Kadana if they worked there. The Air Force controlled the furniture loan program too, guess what? When a Marine Family needed something they got shit. Airmen got anything they wanted.

The Air Force Command tried to put their gyms off limits too. 3rd MarDiv General put a stop to that. ALL rec facilities of ALL military bases are supposed to be open to ALL active Duty regardless of Service.

I had to haul gear to Kadana in the 80's for evac from the security point on the Air Field. The Air Force tried to keep us from eating in their chow halls as well. Claimed we were somehow to blame cause their cooks and managers were not smart enough to plan for enough food. EVERY TIME I ate there there was maybe 5 people in the chow hall not counting me and my partner. Believe me no one drove to Kadana at breakfast or Lunch just to eat there, we didn't have the time. If we ate there it was cause we were aboard the Base working.

I wanted to throttle an airman one day. Me and my partner ( we had to have 2 people to transport classified material and gear) were in line, as in we WERE the line at chow hall and 2 airmen came in and started whining about having to wait ina  LONG line cause us Marines were using THEIR Chow Hall. They were pissed cause 2 GUYS were ahead of them. I explained how on a Marine Base one waited ina line of several HUNDRED Marines and if he thought two was a problem we could step outside. Of course I was wearing a .45 so he wisely shut the hell up.


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## aztech

My two sons are active duty Marines....they both did research on their own and picked this branch based on the quality of the training and the opportunities.  Remember the Marines have many of the same roles that each of the others offer: infantry, engineering, naval, air...pretty much everything except medical.

One of my sons went through his MOS school at Fort Leonard Wood in MO and the Airforce guys got extra pay for being on a base with Marines and the Marines were ordered to not hang out in groups of more than 4 on the base..because it worried the Army.

That says all it needs to about the other branches for me.

GO MARINES!!!!!


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## Otter_Creek

My Dad was a Marine, I don't remember him. My son is a Marine and in Iraq now.

There's a lot of good news going on in Iraq and no media is reporting it.
Instead, They go all ga ga because oboma called himself a mutt.


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## Gunny

RetiredGySgt said:


> I was in Okinawa from 90 to 93 Also 80 to 84. Marines got banned from the Kadana water rec area too, why? Cause a bunch of airmen had a riot and the Marines got blamed for it. Funny thing is when you check the blotter it was only air force personnel that got charged for any damages, they turned over a car and damaged some boats.
> 
> Also when ever I went to a Local beach it was never drunk Marines harrassing the locals it was drunk Airmen. Why? Cause if a Marine caught a Marine doing that we stopped them.
> 
> Now marines were rough on each other marines, some dumb shit Marines killed another Marine cause he was landing support and wore a red tag on his camo trousers. They caught the bastards and put them away for a LONG time.
> 
> On Okinawa the Air Force Command were assholes. The entire housing on ALL okinawa is supposed to be controlled by one source. Air force personnel can live in ANY housing area on the Island. Marines could only live on Kadana if they worked there. The Air Force controlled the furniture loan program too, guess what? When a Marine Family needed something they got shit. Airmen got anything they wanted.
> 
> The Air Force Command tried to put their gyms off limits too. 3rd MarDiv General put a stop to that. ALL rec facilities of ALL military bases are supposed to be open to ALL active Duty regardless of Service.
> 
> I had to haul gear to Kadana in the 80's for evac from the security point on the Air Field. The Air Force tried to keep us from eating in their chow halls as well. Claimed we were somehow to blame cause their cooks and managers were not smart enough to plan for enough food. EVERY TIME I ate there there was maybe 5 people in the chow hall not counting me and my partner. Believe me no one drove to Kadana at breakfast or Lunch just to eat there, we didn't have the time. If we ate there it was cause we were aboard the Base working.
> 
> I wanted to throttle an airman one day. Me and my partner ( we had to have 2 people to transport classified material and gear) were in line, as in we WERE the line at chow hall and 2 airmen came in and started whining about having to wait ina  LONG line cause us Marines were using THEIR Chow Hall. They were pissed cause 2 GUYS were ahead of them. I explained how on a Marine Base one waited ina line of several HUNDRED Marines and if he thought two was a problem we could step outside. Of course I was wearing a .45 so he wisely shut the hell up.



I got there right after that LSB Marine got killed on Kitamae Beach.   The beach and jetty were off limits the whole time I was there.

I also remember coming back in from Team Spirit and having to eat in the Air Force chow hall.  They asked us what we wanted.  We just looked at each other and said "Huh?"


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## Bass v 2.0

t_samford said:


> Which is a better branch to join USAF or USMC?  What are the benefits of both and which has better jobs?



Air Force. If you really want to learn a skill and actually do you your job and have something great to fall back on in case you get hurt, sick and can no longer be in the military, Mr Bass recommends the Air Force. Contrary to popular myth the Air Force puts mission and family as priorities and knowledge of one's job is highly stressed.


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## Bass v 2.0

Gunny said:


> That's no reason to join a service.  I'm an Air Force brat AND retired Marine.  Your father has a typical, snooty elistist Air Force mentality.  They all acted like that toward us.  I was usually most offended because I had spent the first 18 years of my life on one Air Force base or another.
> 
> The answer to the question is as simple as this:
> 
> If you want to be a Marine, you join the Marines.
> 
> If you're just looking for a job, join the Air Force.



And you wonder why Army and Air Force peeps think Marines are mindless clowns.


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## RetiredGySgt

Charlie Bass said:


> And you wonder why Army and Air Force peeps think Marines are mindless clowns.



Mindless clowns? The Army sure doesn't think that. I spent 4 YEARS as an instructor on an Army Base. Most Soldiers tell you they almost joined the Marine Corps.

The Marine Corps teaches history and tradition, one always knows that as a Marine you have a long line of previous Marines watching you. Failure is not an option. That is the BIGGEST difference right there, the other services do not teach their people the long history of their service. They do not instill in them the PRIDE of service.

As an Instructor I used to ask my students which service they thought was the best. Marines ALWAYS said the Marines. Soldiers almost never said the Army.

The Marine Corps Technical fields are JUST as good as the Air Force. Better in some ways because you are a Marine. Marines are taught to learn the next highest ranks job and be prepared to assume leadership if needed no matter what rank they are. This INCLUDES the support fields.

Tell me? What Civilian job is a weapons specialist in the Air force qualified? The guys that load munitions on the air craft? Each service has some MOS's that do not easily equate to civilian jobs. BUT a Marine is sought anyway because the Business sector KNOWS they are task oriented and are taught to finish the job.


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## editec

Gunny said:


> The answer to the question is as simple as this:
> 
> If you want to be a Marine, you join the Marines.
> 
> If you're just looking for a job, join the Air Force.


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## CSM

Charlie Bass said:


> And you wonder why Army and Air Force peeps think Marines are mindless clowns.



Hmmm...I know a LOT of Army personnel and there are not many that think Marines are "mindless clowns". Most do believe that Air Force peeps are pussies though.


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## editec

No, Marines are not mindless clowns.

No Air Force personnel are not pussies, either.

A LOT of Army personnel you know about obviously idiots.


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## pegwinn

Charlie Bass said:


> Air Force. If you really want to learn a skill and actually do you your job and have something great to fall back on in case you get hurt, sick and can no longer be in the military, Mr Bass recommends the Air Force. Contrary to popular myth the Air Force puts mission and family as priorities and knowledge of one's job is highly stressed.



Interesting. My leadership style was Mission First, Marines Always. And may God have mercy on your soul if you didn't know your job from beginning to end, because I wouldn't. And, just to ensure that your shit was in one bag you had better be able to stop wrenching and fight. Then, you better be able to improvise wrenching under combat conditions. 

As to learning skills: I would stack my resume both practical and on paper up against anyone's on any given day.

Bottom line is that you join the other services. You become a Marine. We don't take applications, only commitments.

Notice the tone of my post? The biggest difference I noted between the Marines and other services is *mindset *not job skills. I was an Airforce brat (pops was in from 42-72) that was sick of airplane noise. Of course my first duty station had to be El Toro. 

IF your first priority is WIIFM.... then you need to join a different service and contribute that way.

(if you don't know what WIIFM is then start highlighting here) What's In It For Me?


----------



## Gunny

Charlie Bass said:


> And you wonder why Army and Air Force peeps think Marines are mindless clowns.




No, I really don't care what you think.  Let me know if I need to explain that to you.


----------



## Bass v 2.0

Gunny said:


> No, I really don't care what you think.  Let me know if I need to explain that to you.




Every branch of the military has its good points and its quirks, no one is better than the other completely. The AF and the marines have different missions and areas of emphasis that require different mentalities and attitudes. All of this childish crap about "you become a Marine, but the other services are so-so" is dumb. It order for the country to win a war all the resources and skills of the branches of the military are needed.


----------



## Gunny

Charlie Bass said:


> Every branch of the military has its good points and its quirks, no one is better than the other completely. The AF and the marines have different missions and areas of emphasis that require different mentalities and attitudes. All of this childish crap about "you become a Marine, but the other services are so-so" is dumb. It order for the country to win a war all the resources and skills of the branches of the military are needed.



I agree with the first two sentences.  You lose your mind in the third and come somewhat back to Earth in the last one.

You wish to denigrate the obvious because it doesn't suit you to see it.  Nobody in their right mind joins the Marine Corps for any other reason than to be the best.  Period.  The recruiters offer you the opportunity to become a Marine IF you make it through boot camp.  

People join the Air Force to learn a skill they sell at United Airlines when their time's up.  

None of which has anything to do with the requirement to win a war.  You are incorrect about that as well though.

The Army and Marines can win a war without the Air Force.  Since the Marines are the Navy's dirtywork guys and they're our ride, we need them and they need us.

However, you can bomb whoever into oblivion for months, just as happened in the First Gulf War and it ain't won and not one inch taken without boots on the ground.  We can accomplish that mission without you.  You cannot accomplish that mission without us.

You're supposed to be an officer?  Funny .... Marine officers have a better understanding of basic strategy.


----------



## Againsheila

editec said:


> No, Marines are not mindless clowns.
> 
> No Air Force personnel are not pussies, either.
> 
> A LOT of Army personnel you know about obviously idiots.



  True story...when I worked for the Air Force, one of the secretary's ordered an army reg by accident.  I took a look at it and found a priceless picture in there.  The top picture is of a guy climbing down out of a truck with the word "RIGHT" in the upper right hand corner.  The bottom picture was of a guy falling flat on his face out of the back of the truck with the word "WRONG" in the upper right hand corner, as if you couldn't figure out that if you fell flat on your face you did it wrong.  It was halarious.  I kept that page, still have it today.  I was told that the other service personel believe that the army personel are stupid, but that reg tells me that even the army thinks they are stupid.

Note:  This does not mean that I believe they are stupid.


----------



## Bass v 2.0

Gunny said:


> I agree with the first two sentences.  You lose your mind in the third and come somewhat back to Earth in the last one.
> 
> You wish to denigrate the obvious because it doesn't suit you to see it.  Nobody in their right mind joins the Marine Corps for any other reason than to be the best.  Period.  The recruiters offer you the opportunity to become a Marine IF you make it through boot camp.



Most people Mr Bass knows joined the Marines solely because they have the best uniforms of the military branches and they look forward to a challenging bootcamp.  



> People join the Air Force to learn a skill they sell at United Airlines when their time's up.




Yeah sure, you're on that crack again. Our Security Forces personnel do a lot of dirty work jobs that people don't recognize and it isn't just guarding gates and airfields either. Our pilots transport troops to battles, fight battles in the sky , bomb targets from the sky, etc, none of those things are skills designed to get a job at United Airlines. You're a retard that doesn't like airmen.

None of which has anything to do with the requirement to win a war.  You are incorrect about that as well though.

The Army and Marines can win a war without the Air Force.  Since the Marines are the Navy's dirtywork guys and they're our ride, we need them and they need us.



> However, you can bomb whoever into oblivion for months, just as happened in the First Gulf War and it ain't won and not one inch taken without boots on the ground.  We can accomplish that mission without you.  You cannot accomplish that mission without us.



Your job would be made harder if not for the air power provided by the AF, period. You can talk all that gung ho crap all you like but there is no denying reality.



> You're supposed to be an officer?  Funny .... Marine officers have a better understanding of basic strategy.



That's right, a signal/communications officer, indeed. One that doesn't buy into that fraternity, gung ho crap spouted by a dumb jarhead.


----------



## Gunny

Charlie Bass said:


> Most people Mr Bass knows joined the Marines solely because they have the best uniforms of the military branches and they look forward to a challenging bootcamp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sure, you're on that crack again. Our Security Forces personnel do a lot of dirty work jobs that people don't recognize and it isn't just guarding gates and airfields either. Our pilots transport troops to battles, fight battles in the sky , bomb targets from the sky, etc, none of those things are skills designed to get a job at United Airlines. You're a retard that doesn't like airmen.
> 
> None of which has anything to do with the requirement to win a war.  You are incorrect about that as well though.
> 
> The Army and Marines can win a war without the Air Force.  Since the Marines are the Navy's dirtywork guys and they're our ride, we need them and they need us.
> 
> 
> 
> Your job would be made harder if not for the air power provided by the AF, period. You can talk all that gung ho crap all you like but there is no denying reality.
> 
> 
> 
> That's right, a signal/communications officer, indeed. One that doesn't buy into that fraternity, gung ho crap spouted by a dumb jarhead.



You still here?  Save the sales pitch.  I grew up in the Air Force and almost joined the Air Force.  I'm aware of what the Air Force does.

CommO, huh?  Well, that explains YOU.  So basically all your posturing and blowing smoke boils down to the inferiority complex of a REMF, huh? .


----------



## Bass v 2.0

Gunny said:


> You still here?  Save the sales pitch.  I grew up in the Air Force and almost joined the Air Force.  I'm aware of what the Air Force does.
> 
> CommO, huh?  Well, that explains YOU.  So basically all your posturing and blowing smoke boils down to the inferiority complex of a REMF, huh? .



Signal and communication isn't just carrying around radios and talking on them like you jarheads do, its about ensuring that people can communicate in battle  during wartime and making sure all equipment is in operational order, as well as internet access, telephone support, communication equipment in aircraft.


----------



## Gunny

Charlie Bass said:


> Signal and communication isn't just carrying around radios and talking on them like you jarheads do, its about ensuring that people can communicate in battle  during wartime and making sure all equipment is in operational order, as well as internet access, telephone support, communication equipment in aircraft.



Y'think?


----------



## CSM

editec said:


> No, Marines are not mindless clowns.
> 
> No Air Force personnel are not pussies, either.
> 
> A LOT of Army personnel you know about obviously idiots.



Like you would know....


----------



## pegwinn

Charlie Bass said:


> All of this childish crap about "you become a Marine, but the other services are so-so" is dumb.



If you are going to call me out, use my name. When you speak with recruiters you will see that the emphasis is on WIIFM. When you speak to a Marine recruiter you will see that he is challenging you to become a Marine. It is a fundamental difference in mindset.

I did beaucoup cross ops with other services. Each was professional and dedicated in a unique manner. But, each acknowledged that Marines are different in fundamental ways from the other services. I've known some very hard charging Soldiers and Airmen. But their primary emphasis was on what they did as opposed to who they were. 



Charlie Bass said:


> Most people Mr Bass knows joined the Marines solely because they have the best uniforms of the military branches and they look forward to a challenging bootcamp.  Those are true statements. But, deep down inside in that place where no one else can see..... they had something to prove to themselves.
> 
> Yeah sure, you're on that crack again. Our Security Forces personnel do a lot of dirty work jobs that people don't recognize and it isn't just guarding gates and airfields either.  True. They also form defensive perimiters around airbases in the field. They also process POW's in thier AO. Know how I know this? I used to be an aggressor/instructor while on I&I duty at Dyess AFB. We would tear hell out of their defensive setups and then walk them thru the exact sequence of failures. They learned well. 7th SFS was a hard chargin unit by USAF standards.
> 
> Your job would be made harder if not for the air power provided by the AF, period. You can talk all that gung ho crap all you like but there is no denying reality. Actually, we do our own CAS in virtually all cases. Our pilots (both fixed and rotor) understand the term "danger close". The USAF provides a strategic use of Air Power. But, of all the services, only the US Army can truly be able to win the whole war without anyone else. They are the only ones with the bayonets, and the logistics ability, to get it done. But, if it needs killing right here, right now, gimmie a call.
> 
> That's right, a signal/communications officer, indeed. *One that doesn't buy into that fraternity, gung ho crap spouted by a dumb jarhead.*



The last item, bolded above, explains the whole point better than I can. Since you don't buy it, I can only guess that your subordinates don't either. I hope you can trust em standing behind you with a loaded weapon. I hope that if you ever have to yell "follow me" that you don't feel the need to look back real quick to be sure they did.


----------



## CSM

pegwinn said:


> If you are going to call me out, use my name. When you speak with recruiters you will see that the emphasis is on WIIFM. When you speak to a Marine recruiter you will see that he is challenging you to become a Marine. It is a fundamental difference in mindset.
> 
> I did beaucoup cross ops with other services. Each was professional and dedicated in a unique manner. But, each acknowledged that Marines are different in fundamental ways from the other services. I've known some very hard charging Soldiers and Airmen. But their primary emphasis was on what they did as opposed to who they were.
> 
> 
> 
> The last item, bolded above, explains the whole point better than I can. Since you don't buy it, I can only guess that your subordinates don't either. I hope you can trust em standing behind you with a loaded weapon. I hope that if you ever have to yell "follow me" that you don't feel the need to look back real quick to be sure they did.



If an Air Force leader ever yelled follow me (an unlikely event to be sure) then you can bet those he/she is addressing would first hold a meeting to decide what the leader actually meant by those words with multiple followup meetings to determine who should be on the "Follow Me!" working group and exactly what tasks should be planned for with action officers assigned for each task. All would be fully documented with appropriate powerpoint slides with a decision brief submitted for approval to to the working group lead who would then suggest changes and slide rebuild. Once those changes were incorporated the leader would be briefed by the "Follow Me!" working group. At the end of that briefing woud be a request for funding. Until such funding was received, the "Follow Me!" working group would standby and fill their time with more meetings to refine funding requirements, develop alternate courses of action should funding not be received and hope like hell the leader is transferred or retires before any actual "following" has to be done by anyone.


----------



## Navy1960

Interesting comments on this thread, as far as the Air Force goes it would depend on what your goals are and I tend to agree the Air Force is more  oriented to personnel and technology and how the two combined effect the  overall mission.  I have yet to meet an Air Force pilot who can compete with a Naval or Marine Corps Aviator when it comes to pure Aviation skills.  Thus the reason you need all that concrete to set those birds down on.  If you ask a Marine who is the toughest son of a bitch they have ever met, they will , well at least some of them will tell you a Navy Corpsman, however if you ask a Navy Officer who attended OCS they will tell you that bastard of a Gunny that liked to crease your forehead with the  smokey the bear hat.  The point here is this, if your desire is to be in a team oriented environment that offers you physical and mental stress with great rewards and a life long  brotherhood then go with the Marines.  If your desire is to learn a technical skill that you can apply on your own then perhaps the Air Force is the way to go.  However, if you want the best of both worlds then join the Navy,learn your technical  skills, pick a combat skill that allows you to to have the best of both worlds. Sorry folks had to throw one in there for the Navy.


----------



## pegwinn

> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CSM again.



Bout rolled outa the chair


----------



## Gunny

CSM said:


> If an Air Force leader ever yelled follow me (an unlikely event to be sure) then you can bet those he/she is addressing would first hold a meeting to decide what the leader actually meant by those words with multiple followup meetings to determine who should be on the "Follow Me!" working group and exactly what tasks should be planned for with action officers assigned for each task. All would be fully documented with appropriate powerpoint slides with a decision brief submitted for approval to to the working group lead who would then suggest changes and slide rebuild. Once those changes were incorporated the leader would be briefed by the "Follow Me!" working group. At the end of that briefing woud be a request for funding. Until such funding was received, the "Follow Me!" working group would standby and fill their time with more meetings to refine funding requirements, develop alternate courses of action should funding not be received and hope like hell the leader is transferred or retires before any actual "following" has to be done by anyone.


----------



## Gunny

pegwinn said:


> Bout rolled outa the chair



Covered.


----------



## Article 15

If you want a high standard of living, short deployments, skills that are highly useful in the civilian world, and better looking women  ... oh and don't care much for exercise ... go Air Force.

If you think you are G.I. Joe, like action, guns, physical challenges, and don't mind digging holes to shit in ... go Marines.


----------



## Gunny

Article 15 said:


> If you want a high standard of living, short deployments, skills that are highly useful in the civilian world, and better looking women  ... oh and don't care much for exercise ... go Air Force.
> 
> If you think you are G.I. Joe, like action, guns, physical challenges, and don't mind digging holes to shit in ... go Marines.



Don't be coy.  If you like arguing with Marines and driving them all over the world just to ensure they share your misery in tin cans bobbing in the water, join the Navy!


----------



## Article 15

Gunny said:


> Don't be coy.  If you like arguing with Marines and driving them all over the world just to ensure they share your misery in tin cans bobbing in the water, join the Navy!



9 months at Keesler watching the Navy march around base and I still have no freakin' clue what the heck their cadence is saying.

It sounds like a damn Cab Calloway song ...

Hidehidehidehi (hidehidehidehi)
Hodehodehodeho (hodehodehodeho)
Hedehedehedehe (hedehedehedehe)
Hidehidehideho (hidehidehideho)


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Article 15 said:


> 9 months at Keesler watching the Navy march around base and I still have no freakin' clue what the heck their cadence is saying.
> 
> It sounds like a damn Cab Calloway song ...
> 
> Hidehidehidehi (hidehidehidehi)
> Hodehodehodeho (hodehodehodeho)
> Hedehedehedehe (hedehedehedehe)
> Hidehidehideho (hidehidehideho)



The navy doesn't march, they simply roll like they were at sea.


----------



## Navy1960

This is one thing I will agree on with the Marines, while marching  is not something the Navy is noted for or for that matter spends a lot of time  doing,  I don't think the Marines  care much about that when they are calling that Navy Aviator to give them Close Air Support  or care much about those Navy marching skills when that Navy SAR crewman is pulling that Marine  out of the drink or yelling for that Navy Corpsman.  While all those marching skills teach teamwork and  look real nice  on a grinder  or passing in review I sure hope you Marine types are not using that as a argument here as  one more reason for that young to join the Marines.


----------



## pegwinn

OohRah for the Corpsman.  But, for those in the Navy that insisted on reminding me that I was part of the "Department of the Navy" I can only say..... "Yeah, the men's Department"

Marching is like uniforms. Falls in under "stylin and profilin"


----------



## Gunny

Navy1960 said:


> This is one thing I will agree on with the Marines, while marching  is not something the Navy is noted for or for that matter spends a lot of time  doing,  I don't think the Marines  care much about that when they are calling that Navy Aviator to give them Close Air Support  or care much about those Navy marching skills when that Navy SAR crewman is pulling that Marine  out of the drink or yelling for that Navy Corpsman.  While all those marching skills teach teamwork and  look real nice  on a grinder  or passing in review I sure hope you Marine types are not using that as a argument here as  one more reason for that young to join the Marines.



Nope.  We've hijacked the thread and interjected you into it.

And no, I really don't care how well you march.  One, I'd probably put myself in for a psych eval if I ever saw any squids actually marching ... in cadence.

Two, your reasons are exactly right.  CAS is my friend.  So is the Doc.  Never needed SAR.  

The purpose of close order drill is to provide simple formations from which combat formations can readily be assumed

move large numbers of troops from one place to another in an orderly manner

provide troops the opportunity to handle individual weapons

instill discipline through immediate precise response to orders

and to instill confidence in leaders by allowing them the opportunity to give commands and drill troops.

In other words, it's not just for the parade.


----------



## Navy1960

Gunny said:


> Nope.  We've hijacked the thread and interjected you into it.
> 
> And no, I really don't care how well you march.  One, I'd probably put myself in for a psych eval if I ever saw any squids actually marching ... in cadence.
> 
> Two, your reasons are exactly right.  CAS is my friend.  So is the Doc.  Never needed SAR.
> 
> The purpose of close order drill is to provide simple formations from which combat formations can readily be assumed
> 
> move large numbers of troops from one place to another in an orderly manner
> 
> provide troops the opportunity to handle individual weapons
> 
> instill discipline through immediate precise response to orders
> 
> and to instill confidence in leaders by allowing them the opportunity to give commands and drill troops.
> 
> In other words, it's not just for the parade.



laughs, well I will save you the effort on the  eval Gunny, the last Marine that made a comment on Navy drilling skills, told me my marching skills made me look like a  "shitbird flapping its wings" was the exact quote, stuck with me. So that was my motivation for  going into Navy Aviation,to  at least make up for the flapping part. 

As for the reasons for Marching, your exactly right and you will pardon my short version of the definition as while I knew the reasons for marching, as a Navy Aviator I didn't spend too much time in deep contemplation on the matter. My experience with the Marine Corps was actually a very close one, as I once had a Marine describe my A-6 as the ugliest damn aricraft he had ever had the chance to be up close to but the most beautiful one to see comming over the horizon.


----------



## Gunny

Navy1960 said:


> laughs, well I will save you the effort on the  eval Gunny, the last Marine that made a comment on Navy drilling skills, told me my marching skills made me look like a  "shitbird flapping its wings" was the exact quote, stuck with me. So that was my motivation for  going into Navy Aviation,to  at least make up for the flapping part.
> 
> As for the reasons for Marching, your exactly right and you will pardon my short version of the definition as while I knew the reasons for marching, as a Navy Aviator I didn't spend too much time in deep contemplation on the matter. My experience with the Marine Corps was actually a very close one, as I once had a Marine describe my A-6 as the ugliest damn aricraft he had ever had the chance to be up close to but the most beautiful one to see comming over the horizon.



Everybody thought the A-6 was the ugliest damn aircraft they ever saw. 

You wouldn't hear me critiquing your ride though.  I'm not much on looking gifthorses in the mouth.


----------



## no1tovote4

I'd suggest the Navy, but I am biased.  Try to get into languages, get the recruiter to get in you for the DLAB (Defense Language Aptitude Battery), if you score well there is no better job in the military IMO.  Again it may just be my own bias.

Good people.  But I'd suggest the Navy or the Marines depending on what you are interested in.  Skip the Air Force.


----------



## t_samford

RetiredGySgt said:


> Mindless clowns? The Army sure doesn't think that. I spent 4 YEARS as an instructor on an Army Base. Most Soldiers tell you they almost joined the Marine Corps.
> .



Yeah they ALMOST joined.


----------



## t_samford

SO which one is better?
Give me pro's and con's


----------



## CSM

t_samford said:


> SO which one is better?
> Give me pro's and con's



Asking a vet which service is better (especially the ones on this board) will get you the types of answers you have been getting.... based personal pride of service. Each service has its good and bad points. In the end, you have to decide which (if any) is best for you. Welcome to adulthood! This is one of those decisions adults have to make which have long term repercussions (good and bad).


----------



## t_samford

CSM said:


> Asking a vet which service is better (especially the ones on this board) will get you the types of answers you have been getting.... based personal pride of service. Each service has its good and bad points. In the end, you have to decide which (if any) is best for you. Welcome to adulthood! This is one of those decisions adults have to make which have long term repercussions (good and bad).



I have made my decision i just want to know what all of you think.  USAF


----------



## editec

Gunny said:


> Don't be coy. If you like arguing with Marines and driving them all over the world just to ensure they share your misery in tin cans bobbing in the water, join the Navy!


 
What a load of crap.  

I kept asking for sea duty.  I was, after all,  in the _freaking _NAV.

But what did I get?

The only sea-duty I saw in my tour was bobbing around in-troops ship with the freakin' Marines waiting for our chance to storm the beaches of SoCA.

So if you want really go to sea to see the world?

Don't take any chances....buy a yacht.


----------



## t_samford

editec said:


> What a load of crap.
> 
> I kept asking for sea duty.  I was, after all,  in the _freaking _NAV.
> 
> But what did I get?
> 
> The only sea-duty I saw in my tour was bobbing around in-troops ship with the freakin' Marines waiting for our chance to storm the beaches of SoCA.
> 
> So if you want really go to sea to see the world?
> 
> Don't take any chances....buy a yacht.



HAHA!!


----------



## CSM

t_samford said:


> I have made my decision i just want to know what all of you think.  USAF



LOL...well, I bet Gunny thinks the Marines are the best and Navy's posting name says it all, as does my avatar. The rest are the same.

I find it strange that no "anti-military" folks posted telling you not to even consider joining ANY service.


----------



## t_samford

CSM said:


> LOL...well, I bet Gunny thinks the Marines are the best and Navy's posting name says it all, as does my avatar. The rest are the same.
> 
> I find it strange that no "anti-military" folks posted telling you not to even consider joining ANY service.



"Anti-military" folks would just be ignored because i have always wanted to join the military and no one could talk me out of it. I might have been confused about what branch but the incentive was always there


----------



## pegwinn

t_samford said:


> I have made my decision i just want to know what all of you think.  USAF



What about this thread? You can't do both.


----------



## Gunny

t_samford said:


> I have made my decision i just want to know what all of you think.  USAF



If you have made the decision to go into the Air Force, then to you, that is the best.  PEGWINN is correct ... you haven't heard one vet here say his service wasn't the best.


----------



## Gunny

editec said:


> What a load of crap.
> 
> I kept asking for sea duty.  I was, after all,  in the _freaking _NAV.
> 
> But what did I get?
> 
> The only sea-duty I saw in my tour was bobbing around in-troops ship with the freakin' Marines waiting for our chance to storm the beaches of SoCA.
> 
> So if you want really go to sea to see the world?
> 
> Don't take any chances....buy a yacht.



Tsk tsk ... probably shouldn't have gone to FMF Corpsman school.  Don't know, but there IS a clue in the title.


----------



## Gunny

pegwinn said:


> What about this thread? You can't do both.



Ouch.  How do you say "BUSTED"?

Already in the Marine DEP.  Remember you heard about the yellow footprints here first.


----------



## Bass v 2.0

t_samford said:


> I have made my decision i just want to know what all of you think.  USAF



You made the right choice kid, just go enlisted and stay enlisted don't be an officer. Mr Bass is an AF officer and if he had to do it again he would have went in enlisted as opposed to dealing with all these snobbish, uppity officers who take credit when its the NCOs who actually run things. We'e supposed to sign paperwork and support the NCOs, not tell them how to do their job.


----------



## Article 15

t_samford said:


> I have made my decision i just want to know what all of you think.  USAF



Solid choice, trainee!


----------



## Gunny

Charlie Bass said:


> You made the right choice kid, just go enlisted and stay enlisted don't be an officer. Mr Bass is an AF officer and if he had to do it again he would have went in enlisted as opposed to dealing with all these snobbish, uppity officers who take credit when its the NCOs who actually run things. We'e supposed to sign paperwork and support the NCOs, not tell them how to do their job.



That's ANY service's officers.  It's devalued the enlisted rank structure.  

Can't believe we agree on something, Charles.  

However, if I had it to do again knowing what I know now, I think I'd go for one of the several opportunities I passed to become an officer since I spent most of my 20 carrying one around on my back.  If I'm going to do his job, might as well get paid for it.

Oh, and did you miss the part where your boy's in the USMC DEP?


----------



## Gunny

Article 15 said:


> Solid choice, trainee!




I refer you to post #73.


----------



## editec

Gunny said:


> Tsk tsk ... probably shouldn't have gone to FMF Corpsman school. Don't know, but there IS a clue in the title.


 
Now this is no shit...

My whole lifetime the Marine Corps' slogan had been: " _The Marine Corps is looking for some good men_" 

So there I am, a highly medically trained Navy HM3, a four-oh sailor with 2.5 years under my salty belt, one feeling slightly betrayed to have been assigned into this boy scout troop that as far as I could tell didn't really have any adult supervision.

So I'm standing in line in FMS in my recently issued Marine Greens, getting still another USMC approved hair cut, one designed to make me look even more like a freaking leatherhead instead of that beautiful sailor I really was, when they deliver our mail.

And I get this poster sent to me by my sister, see? 

So I open it up and what is it? It's the_ new_ Marine Corps recruiting poster.

And what does the Corps' _new _recruiting poster_ now_ say?

*"The Marine Corps is STILL looking for some good men"*​ 
Let's me tell you, lads, my feelings were more than just a little hurt. They had the best the NAV had to offer and _still_ they're whining?​ 
But you know, eventually I grew to love those last 18 month of my tour of duty.​ 
Sure I was humping the hills of SoCA with a bunch of Leatherheads, the hours sucked, food sucked, we slept in the dirt and we seldom bathed. But I got a chance to do more medicine, more honest stand up independent duty field medicine than I'd ever have had the chance to do in the NAV.​ 
I wouldn't trade that experience or knowing those Marines for anything.​ 
The Marines were okay, folks.​ 
They're a strange lot, really. Given to high incidences of asthema, they were as puny and sickly a lot of GI issues as I'd ever seen. How most of them even got into the service to begin with, I surely do _NOT_ know.​ 
I found that your average Gi-reen was an overcompensating nitwit. He who was determined to hump up those god damned Californian hills even if his asthematic lungs burst out of his scrawny chest, because his fellow marines were humping it, and he'd be damned if was going to let his comrades and his unit down.

The Corps had no shortage of good men, folks, I can tell you that.​ 
I don't think they had the best equipment. I doubt they had the best training. I'm _damned_ sure they didn't have the best officer corps, either.​ 
But those grunts had heart, folks.​ 
Or in the venacular of that time, those leatherheads I served with had b_eaucoup_ e_spirit de corps._​


----------



## t_samford

Charlie Bass said:


> You made the right choice kid, just go enlisted and stay enlisted don't be an officer. Mr Bass is an AF officer and if he had to do it again he would have went in enlisted as opposed to dealing with all these snobbish, uppity officers who take credit when its the NCOs who actually run things. We'e supposed to sign paperwork and support the NCOs, not tell them how to do their job.



I also think i have made the right choice. Thanks for the support


----------



## t_samford

Gunny said:


> That's ANY service's officers.  It's devalued the enlisted rank structure.
> 
> Can't believe we agree on something, Charles.
> 
> However, if I had it to do again knowing what I know now, I think I'd go for one of the several opportunities I passed to become an officer since I spent most of my 20 carrying one around on my back.  If I'm going to do his job, might as well get paid for it.
> 
> Oh, and did you miss the part where your boy's in the USMC DEP?



Yeah i'm not in the USMC DEP anymore. My recruiter got my letter of discharge yesterday.


----------



## t_samford

Article 15 said:


> Solid choice, trainee!



Thanks for the support.


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## Sunni Man

The guys I thought had it made were the Warrent Officers.

Most of the ones I knew didn't do jack.

Basically, the pay and perks of an officer but didn't have to deal with the troops.


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## Mr. President

Warrant Officers are good at their jobs and thats what they are paid to do.  Be field experts.


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## t_samford

Mr. President said:


> Warrant Officers are good at their jobs and thats what they are paid to do.  Be field experts.



Yeah no one cares about the army.


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## Mr. President

t_samford said:


> Yeah no one cares about the army.



How do you figure that.


----------



## pegwinn

Sunni Man said:


> The guys I thought had it made were the Warrent Officers. It's Warrant Officer.
> 
> Most of the ones I knew didn't do jack. That is either because they had good enlisted folks, were on a CO's staff, or were not Marines and Army.
> 
> Basically, the pay and perks of an officer but didn't have to deal with the troops. Your ignorance is showing. Best to quit now before anyone notices.





Mr. President said:


> Warrant Officers are good at their jobs and thats what they are paid to do.  Be field experts. Yep.





t_samford said:


> Yeah no one cares about the army.



t_samford, are you always prone to making comments like that or was this just a random attack of stupid? For someone who made a commitment and then broke it in favor of another service you are talking like an old salt. Son you need to at least graduate recruit training and earn a uniform before you make that kind of comment. Interservice rivalry is alright amongst those who've been there and done that. You are still sitting on the outside looking in. I guess I am kind of glad that in the end you and Bass will be drinking buddies.

Look, I am glad you chose to enlist. That speaks volumes about your character. But, civilians don't have a monopoly on stupid. Fair warning, if you make those comments to someone in a club who may be prior service your mouth might be writing a check your ass cannot cash.

Good Luck, and in spite of the above, I wish you all the success you can reach out and grab hold of.


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## Gunny

editec said:


> *I found that your average Gi-reen was an overcompensating nitwit. He who was determined to hump up those god damned Californian hills even if his asthematic lungs burst out of his scrawny chest, because his fellow marines were humping it, and he'd be damned if was going to let his comrades and his unit down.*



There's another way?


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## Gunny

t_samford said:


> Yeah i'm not in the USMC DEP anymore. My recruiter got my letter of discharge yesterday.



Okay.  That's clarified.  My response is the same.  Whatever service you choose is right for you will be in your mind "the best," just as our respective branches are to all of us.


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## CharlesTC

I am all for people being proud of their respective branches and such, as everything you have accomplished is worthwhile. 

However there is a difference between pride and what I have read on this thread.

I am a 20 year old looking to join the military, trying to decide for myself, and seeing people who obviously see themselves as the best thing since sliced bread discourages me further from joining their branch of the military.

I do have to say that the best way to choose is comparing the positives of all, not the negative. Justifying the Marines over the AF because the AF are "Pussies" is not a constructive way to help someone choose where to go. Because if he/she follows that advice, he/she may join the Marines to keep from being a pussy, and if that is the case, he/she is not going to end up choosing based on they want. Which is going a huge mistake as there is a good chance they won't get what THEY want out of it.

Granted, in the end a few people being undesirable won't really affect where I go, I think it is pretty ridiculous. You all are serving the same country, so I don't see where the problem is.

First post.

And this is obviously a revival post, but I found it while doing research and felt compelled to post.


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## Amanda

ZOMG!!!

Zombie thread.... RUN! 


BTW, The Marines _are_ the best.


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## Mr. President

Amanda you poor lost soul......


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## krotchdog

It all depends on what you want out of your experience in the sevice. If you are merely looking for an education and some travel maybe the Air Force is for. 

Both the USMC and the Air Force have thier own Jets and all that goes with flying.

The big difference is if you want a true military experience. If you like the idea of the military code of conduct, that you plan on doing your best to gain rank If your plan is to go on and get rank and have the respect of command you must be a United States Marine. The Air Force although the military is very loose compared to the Marine Corp. My brother was in the Air Force and as an E-6 he says if he gave an order and the person did not want to do it he just told my brother to screw off.

In the Marine Corp that will not happen, it can happen but in the corp under good commanders that will not happen and if it does you have the privilege to run the up on charges, office hours, the first step in kicking some shit bag out. Actually that is not the first step, at the platoon level I would order people to give me 20, "get down and give me 20", thats push-ups. One guy did not like it, got in my face, said I could not talk to him that way, I could not make him do push-ups, I reminded him that he was not in boot camp and that I could talk any damned well way I pleased to him. I ran him up on charges, the most clever one I pulled out of the book was, "provoking speeches and gestures". 

So Air Force for fun and education.

The United States Marine Corp, for a rich history of tradition, customs, respect and a real military experience. 

in the corp you get to jump out of helicopters, go on night swims in the pacific, shoot machine guns, hit bullseyes from 500 meters, polish your boots and say yes sir.


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## Article 15

krotchdog said:


> It all depends on what you want out of your experience in the sevice. If you are merely looking for an education and some travel maybe the Air Force is for.
> 
> Both the USMC and the Air Force have thier own Jets and all that goes with flying.
> 
> The big difference is if you want a true military experience. If you like the idea of the military code of conduct, that you plan on doing your best to gain rank If your plan is to go on and get rank and have the respect of command you must be a United States Marine. The Air Force although the military is very loose compared to the Marine Corp. *My brother was in the Air Force and as an E-6 he says if he gave an order and the person did not want to do it he just told my brother to screw off.
> *
> In the Marine Corp that will not happen, it can happen but in the corp under good commanders that will not happen and if it does you have the privilege to run the up on charges, office hours, the first step in kicking some shit bag out. Actually that is not the first step, at the platoon level I would order people to give me 20, "get down and give me 20", thats push-ups. One guy did not like it, got in my face, said I could not talk to him that way, I could not make him do push-ups, I reminded him that he was not in boot camp and that I could talk any damned well way I pleased to him. I ran him up on charges, the most clever one I pulled out of the book was, "provoking speeches and gestures".
> 
> So Air Force for fun and education.
> 
> The United States Marine Corp, for a rich history of tradition, customs, respect and a real military experience.
> 
> in the corp you get to jump out of helicopters, go on night swims in the pacific, shoot machine guns, hit bullseyes from 500 meters, polish your boots and say yes sir.



I would submit that your brother was a weak NCO if he let an Airman or a Staff get away with that kind of insubordination.


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## krotchdog

Gem said:


> Boo....
> 
> An Air Force Officer and a Marine were in the bathroom at the urinal.  The Marine finished first, washed his hands, and was drying them when the AF Officer finished, zipped up, and started to walk out of the bathroom.
> 
> The Marine said to the Airman, "You know, in the Marines they teach us to wash our hands after going to the bathroom."
> 
> The Airman smiled over his shoulder and replies, "You know, in the Air Force they teach us not to piss on our hands."



My little boy Johnny was on his way with his ma to see me, Johnny is big boy so he went into the bathroom by himself. An Air Force flyboy came in wearing his uniform which impressed my boy Johnny so Johnny asked the flyboy if he could wear his cover (hat). So the Airman gives his hat to Johnny, Johnny looks himself in the mirror, likes it than goes to the urinal to piss. In walks a Squid (navy scum), looks at Johnny and says, "hey, can I hold your dick?". Johnny says, "no, I am not really in the Air Force, I am just wearing this Flyboys cover".

Article 15, I would submit you were not thier so you do not know what the hell you are talking about. Each command is different and to make a presumptous statement is not a sign of intelligence.


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## garyd

It depends almost entirely on what you are looking for. If you want to see combat jon the Marines. If you want to fly air planes you can join either one as the Marines have there own semi private airforce. 

If you want to put in your twenty draw your retirement and get out with a whole skin join the airfoce. Note there are MOS' (Military occupational specialties)  in every branch that will all but guarantee that you'll never be in position to get shot at but most all of them have a ceiling beyond which you won't ever get rank wise.


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## sitarro

George Carlin on Dennis Miller's show summing this subject up in his own classic way, great clip.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWgsfXEPR4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hWgsfXEPR4[/ame]


----------



## Gunny

CharlesTC said:


> I am all for people being proud of their respective branches and such, as everything you have accomplished is worthwhile.
> 
> However there is a difference between pride and what I have read on this thread.
> 
> I am a 20 year old looking to join the military, trying to decide for myself, and seeing people who obviously see themselves as the best thing since sliced bread discourages me further from joining their branch of the military.
> 
> I do have to say that the best way to choose is comparing the positives of all, not the negative. Justifying the Marines over the AF because the AF are "Pussies" is not a constructive way to help someone choose where to go. Because if he/she follows that advice, he/she may join the Marines to keep from being a pussy, and if that is the case, he/she is not going to end up choosing based on they want. Which is going a huge mistake as there is a good chance they won't get what THEY want out of it.
> 
> Granted, in the end a few people being undesirable won't really affect where I go, I think it is pretty ridiculous. You all are serving the same country, so I don't see where the problem is.
> 
> First post.
> 
> And this is obviously a revival post, but I found it while doing research and felt compelled to post.



You felt compelled to post your ignorance, huh?  Let me add a little context for you:  interservice rivalry amounts to little more than talking smack to each other.  It's tongue-in-cheek.  We have even been known to engage in fisticuffs over the matter and a couple of beers.  True, there may be those extremists who actually believe the crap, but the only REAL attacks I ever see come from outside, not from within.  

If your "research" took you to more than one thread, you'd find the quickest way to get us to close ranks is for some knucklehead to come along and bash the military.  It's that "little brother" thing.  We can fuck with each other.  YOU don't rate to fuck with us.

You stuck your nose in a game you have no clue about.

Common sense and logic dictates that we each joined a branch of the service for a reason.  Why would you expect that anyone would CHOOSE what they thought was not the best?  That's nonsense.


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## mightypeon

Interesting, in Germany the saying goes:

The Bundeswehr (German Armed forces) is like a ship.
The army rows, the navy gives commands and the Air force drives Water Ski.


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## sitarro

When I was learning to fly, my Dad, a career fighter and instructor pilot in the U.S. Air Force, warned me to never navigate by following railroad tracks between towns....... I might run head on into a "Naval aviator".

He also said that you could always tell the pilots from the mechanics in the latrine........... the mechanics wash their hands before they piss.

When he was 19 he would fly his P-51 from Martlesham Heath Airfield in England to Germany and back escorting B-17s. These would be nine hour missions where he would bring a couple of empty coke bottles to piss in. Nine hours of holding onto a stick attached to a 1200 horsepower RollsRoyce Merlin engine. He had to fly over the Channel twice knowing if that engine quit that he had seconds to get into a raft before freezing. He would fight Luftwaffe pilots that were trying to destroy our bombers before they could get their payload to it's target, while trying to keep his plane in the air and not colliding with another. He also had to deal with flack and the Luftwaffe again on the return flight. If they would spot a locomotive or other enemy target on the way home they would take it out with the 6 50 caliber machine  guns in their wings. Landing a P-51, after flying it that long, wasn't exactly a sure thing either, a lot of guys lost their lives making mistakes at this point in their mission.

He flew for the U.S. Air Force for 29 years before retiring and flying another 20 years as a corporate pilot. He was married to my Mother for 57 years, raised 6 kids and was the most honest and decent man I have ever known.  If he had heard someone say he was a pussy for being an United States Air Force pilot, he would have laughed at such an ignorant ass statement and let it ride, he knew better than to waste his time trying to educate a neanderthal.


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## IF_Common_29

> When I was learning to fly, my Dad, a career fighter and instructor pilot in the U.S. Air Force, warned me to never navigate by following railroad tracks between towns....... I might run head on into a "Naval aviator".
> 
> He also said that you could always tell the pilots from the mechanics in the latrine........... the mechanics wash their hands before they piss.
> 
> When he was 19 he would fly his P-51 from Martlesham Heath Airfield in England to Germany and back escorting B-17s. These would be nine hour missions where he would bring a couple of empty coke bottles to piss in. Nine hours of holding onto a stick attached to a 1200 horsepower RollsRoyce Merlin engine. He had to fly over the Channel twice knowing if that engine quit that he had seconds to get into a raft before freezing. He would fight Luftwaffe pilots that were trying to destroy our bombers before they could get their payload to it's target, while trying to keep his plane in the air and not colliding with another. He also had to deal with flack and the Luftwaffe again on the return flight. If they would spot a locomotive or other enemy target on the way home they would take it out with the 6 50 caliber machine guns in their wings. Landing a P-51, after flying it that long, wasn't exactly a sure thing either, a lot of guys lost their lives making mistakes at this point in their mission.
> 
> He flew for the U.S. Air Force for 29 years before retiring and flying another 20 years as a corporate pilot. He was married to my Mother for 57 years, raised 6 kids and was the most honest and decent man I have ever known. If he had heard someone say he was a pussy for being an United States Air Force pilot, he would have laughed at such an ignorant ass statement and let it ride, he knew better than to waste his time trying to educate a neanderthal.



Are you sure he was in the "Air Force" during WWII? Cause im pretty sure the US didn't have an air force during that time period.   But anyways...Its like what everyone else has said. it depends on wat you want. if you want hardcore training and loyal officers that treat people with respect and are willing to put their lives on the line for you during combat, then pick the marines.  If your into flying, and more of a laid back kind of person then pick the Air Force.

But here is an example to show you what both are like.  Ur in a bar and You see an air force officer and you ask him wat he does for a living.  He says, "Im in the Air Force"
then you see a marince officer and ask him wat he does for a living. He says, "I am a MARINE"

Semper Fi (Always Faithful)


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## Immanuel

Both the Air Force and the Marines are superb organizations, but if you want my opinion, and you want to do some good for the world, I'd say go U.S. Coast Guard.

The mission of the Coast Guard is to save lives.  What better way to help your fellow man?

Immie


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## IF_Common_29

> Both the Air Force and the Marines are superb organizations, but if you want my opinion, and you want to do some good for the world, I'd say go U.S. Coast Guard.
> 
> The mission of the Coast Guard is to save lives. What better way to help your fellow man?
> 
> Immie



For every enemy you kill, you save ten marines lives.  That's the real way to save lives.
The coast guard is a good organization too, im not trying to take anything away from it.


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## sitarro

IF_Common_29 said:


> When I was learning to fly, my Dad, a career fighter and instructor pilot in the U.S. Air Force, warned me to never navigate by following railroad tracks between towns....... I might run head on into a "Naval aviator".
> 
> He also said that you could always tell the pilots from the mechanics in the latrine........... the mechanics wash their hands before they piss.
> 
> When he was 19 he would fly his P-51 from Martlesham Heath Airfield in England to Germany and back escorting B-17s. These would be nine hour missions where he would bring a couple of empty coke bottles to piss in. Nine hours of holding onto a stick attached to a 1200 horsepower RollsRoyce Merlin engine. He had to fly over the Channel twice knowing if that engine quit that he had seconds to get into a raft before freezing. He would fight Luftwaffe pilots that were trying to destroy our bombers before they could get their payload to it's target, while trying to keep his plane in the air and not colliding with another. He also had to deal with flack and the Luftwaffe again on the return flight. If they would spot a locomotive or other enemy target on the way home they would take it out with the 6 50 caliber machine guns in their wings. Landing a P-51, after flying it that long, wasn't exactly a sure thing either, a lot of guys lost their lives making mistakes at this point in their mission.
> 
> He flew for the U.S. Air Force for 29 years before retiring and flying another 20 years as a corporate pilot. He was married to my Mother for 57 years, raised 6 kids and was the most honest and decent man I have ever known. If he had heard someone say he was a pussy for being an United States Air Force pilot, he would have laughed at such an ignorant ass statement and let it ride, he knew better than to waste his time trying to educate a neanderthal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IF_Common_29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure he was in the "Air Force" during WWII? Cause im pretty sure the US didn't have an air force during that time period.   But anyways...Its like what everyone else has said. it depends on wat you want. if you want hardcore training and loyal officers that treat people with respect and are willing to put their lives on the line for you during combat, then pick the marines.  If your into flying, and more of a laid back kind of person then pick the Air Force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, with that type of useless need to differentiate between my father's service in The Army Air Corps, The U.S. Army Air Forces and the United States Air Force, one would think you had a keen need for perfection in detail. Looking at your post and the amount of typos, misspellings and just plain incorrect usage of words, I see that you obviously aren't really worried about detail. Was this your (not Ur) attempt at a "gotcha"? In the 50 years I spent around my Dad, he never used any other name of the armed service he served in than the U.S. Air Force........ I certainly didn't feel a need to differentiate. You might want to check with any member of Germany's Luftwaffe or Japan's pilots from WW2 that are still alive today and see if they think the United States didn't have an Air Force.
> 
> You could also say that if you want to be treated as an adult individual and receive training that will not only make you very proficient at your job but will also give you skill that will help insure a job in the civilian life you will eventually return to, join the U.S. Air Force. If you want to be in a fraternity where you are encouraged to lose any sense of individuality and become a different life form that governs every decision you will make the rest of your life, become a Marine. I have respect for those that have chosen to serve in the Marine Corp but just don't care for the labeling or the "bad ass" attitude, not for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IF_Common_29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But here is an example to show you what both are like.  Ur in a bar and You see an air force officer and you ask him wat he does for a living.  He says, "Im in the Air Force"
> then you see a marince officer and ask him wat he does for a living. He says, "I am a MARINE"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's an adorable story, exactly why I, as an individual, wouldn't want to be a member of any organization that would cause me to describe myself as that organization. I never wanted to be in a fraternity, a gang or on a team either, team sports bore the shit out of me, would rather actually do something than watch others dribble a ball back and forth.
> 
> 
> Now I guess I will receive the standard....... "I'll gut you with my Rambo knife for disrespecting The MARINES!......... I didn't, I said that the life isn't for me...... that response would prove one of my points though.
Click to expand...


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## IF_Common_29

well im sorry dude. nothing against your dad. so no need to bring up how good your guys relationship is. and how does my grammar affect my point? i was always taught to get things done as quickly as possible and with most effectivness. so typing short hand gets my point across as quick as possible.

But if you got on here jus to argue with me about my spelling then your not even sticking to the thread title.
Ex. in the battle of iwo jima. the "Air force" and navy bombed the island continuously for several days.
When the MARINES landed the whole island was loose sand and hardly any of the enemy was killed. So now the Marines were stranded on the beach and were picked off one by one by the japan snipers and mortar fire. But for both arguements sake ill include another example.
In the first invasion of Vietnam the 7th calvary landed on landing zone X-ray.
They were out numbered 400 soldiers to 2000 vietnam soldiers. As the marines began to get over ran by the enemy. "Broken arrow" was called over the radio. Broken arrow is basically when ALL the air support the military had at that time sent to the battle and drop their bombs. if it wasn't for the "Air force" that day. we may not have won that battle.

so as you can see i do not disrespect the "Air Force." They are a very prestigious military organization. The air force will promise you opportunities and respect and make u a better person in life.
The marines will make you a more respectable person and make you dig deeper than you ever have and make you overall a better person when you come out (depending on wat you see in battle)


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## Munin

Gunny said:


> However, you can bomb whoever into oblivion for months, just as happened in the First Gulf War and it ain't won and not one inch taken without boots on the ground.  We can accomplish that mission without you.  You cannot accomplish that mission without us.



Wrong, it depends on what the mission is (Nagasaki? Hiroshima?). Not all missions involve occupation, winning a war is always a joint effort: it almost never (at least when you talk about modern combat) depends on only 1 part of the military. The Gulf (I & II) wars were not "big" wars (Iraq did not have the smallest chance to invade or defeat the US), look at WWII and you ll see that every part of the military is just as important in the effort to defeat the enemy.


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## Skull Pilot

sitarro said:


> IF_Common_29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was learning to fly, my Dad, a career fighter and instructor pilot in the U.S. Air Force, warned me to never navigate by following railroad tracks between towns....... I might run head on into a "Naval aviator".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean those naval aviators who land a jet on a pitching and rolling boat in the middle of the ocean in the dark and not a standing still runway with lights?  Those naval aviators?
> 
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=791_1187781900
> 
> [youtube]AsQIaDSBaP8[/youtube]
> 
> yeah those navy pilots just suck.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## JG 4 President

Marines all the way. Look at the past and the future the marines have a history of being the best. You never hear of the air force doing the first and worse job. The marines are the first ones in and last ones out, they always will be. And the air force can stay in the rear with the gear. No one else trains as hard as the marines do and no one else is as good...


----------



## sitarro

Skull Pilot said:


> sitarro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IF_Common_29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean those naval aviators who land a jet on a pitching and rolling boat in the middle of the ocean in the dark and not a standing still runway with lights?  Those naval aviators?
> 
> LiveLeak.com - Cockpit view of a jet landing on an aircraft carrier
> 
> [youtube]AsQIaDSBaP8[/youtube]
> 
> yeah those navy pilots just suck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen them try to land on a "standing still runway", in daylight. I watched a guy in an F-4 come into a 3 mile long concrete runway with his hook extended, he slammed into the ground hard enough to destroy the gear on a normal plane and then bounced down the runway, he basically crashed his plane into the runway, just like they do into those flat top boats. How many people does it take to bring one of those naval aviators onto the deck? They certainly don't do it alone and I would say that with the same training, any Air Force pilot could crash a Navy aircraft into the deck too.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Gunny

Munin said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> However, you can bomb whoever into oblivion for months, just as happened in the First Gulf War and it ain't won and not one inch taken without boots on the ground.  We can accomplish that mission without you.  You cannot accomplish that mission without us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong, it depends on what the mission is (Nagasaki? Hiroshima?). Not all missions involve occupation, winning a war is always a joint effort: it almost never (at least when you talk about modern combat) depends on only 1 part of the military. The Gulf (I & II) wars were not "big" wars (Iraq did not have the smallest chance to invade or defeat the US), look at WWII and you ll see that every part of the military is just as important in the effort to defeat the enemy.
Click to expand...


What was the mission when we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki?  Defeating Japan.  Who was it that took all those islands strung out across the Pacific?  The Marine Corps, with help from the Army and Navy.   

If you're wondering why I point this out, it's because the USAAF could not have gotten within range of Japan without those boots on the ground.  So I'm looking at WWII, and you would be trying to split hairs.

I made a comment based on capability.  Those capabilities are fact.  That comment did not say the Air Force did or does not have a role.


----------

