# Joe the Plumber...err...Joe the WELFARE recipient



## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

Unbelievable. This guy talks about how terrible it is for re-distribution of wealth, talks about how terrible it is for people to receive social security and now we find out that HE HIMSELF was on welfare - TWICE.

[youtube]ZPzW2XELAfw[/youtube]


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## The Paperboy (Nov 8, 2008)

What's unbelieveable is the media made the story about Joe, not Obama's answer.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Unbelievable. This guy talks about how terrible it is for re-distribution of wealth, talks about how terrible it is for people to receive social security and now we find out that HE HIMSELF was on welfare - TWICE.


Squid brain!!! The election is over!!! Give it a break!!!!


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## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

The Paperboy said:


> What's unbelieveable is the media made the story about Joe, not Obama's answer.



Joe wanted to be in the media spotlight - so he got what he deserved. Gee, I wonder who tipped off the media about Joe's welfare.


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## Silence (Nov 8, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Squid brain!!! The election is over!!! Give it a break!!!!



I agree, that's why I didn't post this the other day when I found out about it.

He's a hypocrite and a liar but joe is a non-story now.


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## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

Sunni Man said:


> Squid brain!!! The election is over!!! Give it a break!!!!



Squid brain?


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## Isolde (Nov 8, 2008)

You, sir are an idiot.  

He exemplifies that which the welfare system should be.... a safety net, not a way of life. 


OMG can we ban all Colmes videos from the forum? ... he is a major tool.


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## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

Isolde said:


> He exemplifies that which the welfare system should be.... a safety net, not a way of life.



He's receiving government money that rich people pay for. His entire case, his entire argument about Obama was taking money away from rich people and giving it to lower and middle class people.


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## Silence (Nov 8, 2008)

Isolde said:


> You, sir are an idiot.
> 
> He exemplifies that which the welfare system should be.... a safety net, not a way of life.
> 
> ...



having been on public assistance myself I certainly wouldn't be hypocrite enough to go on national television and bash the very system that helped me in my time of need.  Joe was trying to make a name for himself...unfortunately for him he didn't plan on all his dirty laundry coming out.


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## Annie (Nov 8, 2008)

For freaking out loud! I post about something Obama does or says and I'm slammed for 'not giving him a chance.' 

If he's so freaking wonderful, why can't the left write about what he's doing or planning on doing? Oh I know, they don't know. Really, they don't know sh** about him or his plans. They have hope for change or belief in change or belief in hope, I get confused on their agenda.

So the left is left with attacking the party and officials that lost and a plumber. Going to be a great time ahead.


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## Red Dawn (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Unbelievable. This guy talks about how terrible it is for re-distribution of wealth, talks about how terrible it is for people to receive social security and now we find out that HE HIMSELF was on welfare - TWICE.
> 
> [youtube]ZPzW2XELAfw[/youtube]




LOL

Tax dodger, welfare recipient, and pathological liar! 

I love this guy!


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## Red Dawn (Nov 8, 2008)

The Paperboy said:


> What's unbelieveable is the media made the story about Joe, not Obama's answer.



When you lie, expect to get called on it. 

There seems to be a rash of republicans lying about owning or buying small business that have a net profit of 250k.   

Or, about being attacked by scary black Obama supporters.


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## Sunni Man (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Squid brain?


Yes DavidS, "squid brain"!!

As in comparing your mental capacity to a small brained invertebrate.

Hint, DavidS: It's an insult not a compliment


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## dilloduck (Nov 8, 2008)

Isolde said:


> You, sir are an idiot.
> 
> He exemplifies that which the welfare system should be.... a safety net, not a way of life.
> 
> ...



hey-you don't think Alan is hot ?


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## editec (Nov 8, 2008)

Joe the liar was a tool.

Wans't that obvious?


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## Isolde (Nov 8, 2008)

Oh my, the liberals show their hands. I get it now, thanks!


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## Isolde (Nov 8, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> hey-you don't think Alan is hot ?



Nobody's hot but you babe.... say, I inflated my age in the age poll thread, would so like to be Mrs. Robinson to your Benjamin.


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## Andrew2382 (Nov 8, 2008)

whats pathetic is how the left go out of their way to try and destroy anyone who questions Obama.

All the fucking guy did was ask a question and his life got turned upside down.  It doesn't matter if he received welfare or he doesnt pay his taxes.  The answer is what was important.

I also hope the bitch who works for the state who went into his records gets fired and prosecuted, she is already being investigated.


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## Silence (Nov 8, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> For freaking out loud! I post about something Obama does or says and I'm slammed for 'not giving him a chance.'
> 
> If he's so freaking wonderful, why can't the left write about what he's doing or planning on doing? Oh I know, they don't know. Really, they don't know sh** about him or his plans. They have hope for change or belief in change or belief in hope, I get confused on their agenda.
> 
> So the left is left with attacking the party and officials that lost and a plumber. Going to be a great time ahead.


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## Isolde (Nov 8, 2008)

editec said:


> Joe the liar was a tool.
> 
> Wans't that obvious?



No it wans't. How did he lie? Look you libbers want to keep people like Joe the Plumber down, as well as the black man in the ghetto.... just throw them some crumbs once in awhile, but never allow them to be self sufficient. 

Am I right? Yes I am. Prove me wrong.


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## dilloduck (Nov 8, 2008)

Isolde said:


> Nobody's hot but you babe.... say, I inflated my age in the age poll thread, would so like to be Mrs. Robinson to your Benjamin.



I'll give him a call and see if he's busy.


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## Silence (Nov 8, 2008)

Andrew2382 said:


> whats pathetic is how the left go out of their way to try and destroy anyone who questions Obama.
> 
> All the fucking guy did was ask a question and his life got turned upside down.  It doesn't matter if he received welfare or he doesnt pay his taxes.  The answer is what was important.
> 
> I also hope the bitch who works for the state who went into his records gets fired and prosecuted, she is already being investigated.



that is the society we live in unfortunately.  Perhaps McCain shouldn't have made Joe a public figure.  I wonder if Joe blames John for his woes?


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## Isolde (Nov 8, 2008)

Silence said:


> that is the society we live in unfortunately.  Perhaps McCain shouldn't have made Joe a public figure.  I wonder if Joe blames John for his woes?



Joe made himself a public figure. Sheesh, you liberals are insufferable tonight.


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## Andrew2382 (Nov 8, 2008)

Silence said:


> that is the society we live in unfortunately.  Perhaps McCain shouldn't have made Joe a public figure.  I wonder if Joe blames John for his woes?




Yeah, you are right, but why did he become a public figure?

The media made him a public figure first, right and the left.  Right trying to praise him and the left trying to destroy him.  However, still doesn't give the **** at the state office the right to look into his personal records and release them to the media.  I hope she goes to jail.  

Also, McCain fucked up casue he tried and make Joe the story and not so much Obama's answer.  I would have stopped mentioning Joe's name and focused on what Obama said.


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## Annie (Nov 8, 2008)

Silence said:


>



Hardly need to chill, glad to see you on this thread, as it was the other I was referring to. 

The left is doing to Joe, Palin what they did to GW. I've no excuses for GW, he made his own bed. He could have responded but didn't. The others, well they got caught up in the hell that's become the US electoral system.

Joe in particular had the audacity to ask a freaking question, it's haunted him ever since. The left? They said he seeked the limelight. From his yard? Obama walked up to him. Of course since he's a working stiff, in a working stiff neighborhood the assumption would be he'd like what Obama was selling, but he didn't. He aspired for a different future. The absolute audacity! He's paid for it ever since. Yes, a public official is now on paid leave, being investigated for misusing information available to her. 

You all condone these big brother actions? Good luck to hanging onto the freedoms you were so concerned with regarding Patriot Act. The One might just as well put forth, the 'right wing act' and you'd all jump onto it, never recognizing they'll be coming for you.


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## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

Andrew2382 said:


> whats pathetic is how the left go out of their way to try and destroy anyone who questions Obama.



Do you have any idea how many people have questioned this guy? Not only is he black, not only is he relatively unknown to the world up until 4 years ago, not only does he have questionable associations, not only did his pastor for 20 years yell out loudly "GOD DAMN AMERICA" on tape for all to see, not only did he defeat the Clinton machine, not only did he spend a good part of his youth in Inodnesia, but he is also running for president. He has held hundreds of town hall meetings with people just like you and me, he has met with hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans like you and me who have all questioned him. Have we all been destroyed?

No.

Joe the Plumber was destroyed because he lied. He tried to make something about himself more than he was. He was at the very least, a huge idiot and hypocrite. At the most he was a plant for the McCain campaign. His entire purpose was to convince middle America that Obama's tax plan would hurt them because it was wrong to accept money from rich people. There's a passage that goes: "Do not judge lest ye' be judged." If Joe really was buying a business, which he's not, if Joe really had that kind of money to buy a business, which he doesn't, if Joe's name really was Joe, which it isn't, then Joe wouldn't be stupid enough to question Obama's tax plan, because he would know Obama's tax plan for small businesses actually help them.



> All the fucking guy did was ask a question and his life got turned upside down.



Who forced him to go on FoxNews almost every other week? Who forced him to campaign for John McCain? Who forced him to say that Obama = Death to Israel? Who forced him to get his own publicit, to seek a record deal and to seek a book deal? He forced this on himself. When you put yourself out there in the view of the public and you're attacking someone who is very popular with a majority of American's, expect to get attacked. You better be squeaky clean.


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## Isolde (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Do you have any idea how many people have questioned this guy? Not only is he black, not only is he relatively unknown to the world up until 4 years ago, not only does he have questionable associations, not only did his pastor for 20 years yell out loudly "GOD DAMN AMERICA" on tape for all to see, not only did he defeat the Clinton machine, not only did he spend a good part of his youth in Inodnesia, but he is also running for president. He has held hundreds of town hall meetings with people just like you and me, he has met with hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans like you and me who have all questioned him. Have we all been destroyed?
> 
> No.
> 
> ...



Oh.God.cannot.breathe.


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## Red Dawn (Nov 8, 2008)

Andrew2382 said:


> whats pathetic is how the left go out of their way to try and destroy anyone who questions Obama.
> 
> All the fucking guy did was ask a question and his life got turned upside down.  It doesn't matter if he received welfare or he doesnt pay his taxes.  The answer is what was important.
> 
> I also hope the bitch who works for the state who went into his records gets fired and prosecuted, she is already being investigated.



No one should have looked through his records illegally, if that in fact is what happened. 

Now, do you think Joe should have asked his question without lying?  Yes or no?


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## rayboyusmc (Nov 8, 2008)

> What's unbelieveable is the media made the story about Joe, not Obama's answer.



I will bet  you never heard Obama's complete answer.

Let's at least wait until Obama is inaugerated before we call him a failure.


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## Andrew2382 (Nov 8, 2008)

wow david you are fucking deluisonal.  Do you rub one out to a pic of Obama every night before you go to bed?  The fascination you have with this man is almost fucking scary.

Yes, he has had hundreds of town halls, and he was questioned about associations etc..  However, thats all normal political campign shit.

All poor joe did was ask him a SIMPLE fucking question and Obama gave a contreversal answer.  And what was the outcry?  KILL JOE! HOW FUCKING DARE HE.  After all Obama has done and been through how dare he question him.

Fuck that, what difference would it have made if some toothless crack whore who was homeless and asked the question and Obama gave the same answer.  


No one forced him to go on Fox news, he did it on his own.  I mean normal citizens are allowed to have a voice right?  You don't have to be a politician or Sean Penn to be able to be heard...

Shit, why not let him seek a book deal.  I hope he gets one and gets paid a shit load of money for it. Wouldn't you?

So he can't have the opinion to think that Obama will be the "death of Isreal".  That is what he fucking believes!  Why should he get attacked, he isn't the one running for any kind of fucking office, his record doesn't have to be clean.  He isn't running for President.


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## Silence (Nov 8, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> Hardly need to chill, glad to see you on this thread, as it was the other I was referring to.



oh I see so you were talking about something off topic in here and expected others to know?  



> The left is doing to Joe, Palin what they did to GW. I've no excuses for GW, he made his own bed. He could have responded but didn't. The others, well they got caught up in the hell that's become the US electoral system.



hmmm wasn't it Fox news who reported Joe was on welfare?  wasn't it fox news who first broke the "McCain insiders" comments about Palin?  yep.  If I were a repub I'd be terrified of what they'll say about Bush once he leaves office.  Who knows what kind of information they've been sitting on all this time..... 



> Joe in particular had the audacity to ask a freaking question, it's haunted him ever since. The left? They said he seeked the limelight. From his yard? Obama walked up to him. Of course since he's a working stiff, in a working stiff neighborhood the assumption would be he'd like what Obama was selling, but he didn't. He aspired for a different future. The absolute audacity! He's paid for it ever since. Yes, a public official is now on paid leave, being investigated for misusing information available to her.



he asked a question, which Obama answered quite nicely and John McCain took a milisecond out of it and twisted it into an entire stump speech.  Took the comment completely out of context and ignored the fact that Joe the Plumber's story was based on completely falsehoods.  

I think people think he sought the limelight because it was really odd how he happened to be right there and ask a question based on a total lie and how McCain just happened to know he asked it.  Seems like a plant to me.  



> You all condone these big brother actions? Good luck to hanging onto the freedoms you were so concerned with regarding Patriot Act. The One might just as well put forth, the 'right wing act' and you'd all jump onto it, never recognizing they'll be coming for you.



What big brother act are you referring to?  I think it's safe to assume that had John McCain not made Joe the face of his entire campaign following the last debate people would've forgotten about him and his question.  Instead we got Joe the Plumber, Pepe the brick layer, Tina the realtor and any number of stupid variations on that theme.  

Joe went on the stump for McCain, he kind of asked for the attention IMO.


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## Isolde (Nov 8, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> No one should have looked through his records illegally, if that in fact is what happened.
> 
> Now, do you think Joe should have asked his question without lying?  Yes or no?



Do you understand that there is a difference between welfare and redistributing wealth? If you don't then that explains everything that is wrong with the current welfare system.


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## Red Dawn (Nov 8, 2008)

> Joe the Plumber was destroyed because he lied. He tried to make something about himself more than he was. He was at the very least, a huge idiot and hypocrite.



Okay, Joe Not the Plumber is not "destroyed".  This is probably the best thing that ever happened to him.  He's got his own "think tank" website now, which is allegedly a forum for conservative ideas, but I checked it out and its just a way for him to sell Joe the Plumber t-shirts and make money for himself.   

Joe thrust himself in the public limelight, and is on Fox News and on the campaign trail offering "policy" advice.  LOL.   Can you imagine policy advice from Joe Not the Plumber?   Good times!  

I actually don't care if he got welfare.  Or, more accurately, it sounds like his parents did.  I just wish he could fess up and admit he benefited from a great liberal program that was started and strengthened by FDR and LBJ, among other liberals.   And was always actively oppossed by the conservative movement.


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## Andrew2382 (Nov 8, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> No one should have looked through his records illegally, if that in fact is what happened.
> 
> Now, do you think Joe should have asked his question without lying?  Yes or no?




Dawn,

To me it doesn't even matter?  HE can be poor, rich, middle class. It don't matter.  Citizens have the right to question politicans regardless of THEIR OWN situation in life.  

Even if Joe is 40 years away from buying a plumbing agency he still has the right to ask Obama any question he wants.  The guy is runnin gfor the highest office in the country/world.

We have the right to ask anything without fear of being demoralized by the media


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## Red Dawn (Nov 8, 2008)

Andrew2382 said:


> Dawn,
> 
> To me it doesn't even matter?  HE can be poor, rich, middle class. It don't matter.  Citizens have the right to question politicans regardless of THEIR OWN situation in life.
> 
> ...



Any citizen can ask any question. 

He wasn't a plumber, and he wasn't on the verge of buying a company that netted 250k.  He made it all up.   

I don't know how you were raised, but if you lie, you're going to get mocked and humiliated.   That's how most people roll.


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## Andrew2382 (Nov 8, 2008)

and why did the media even inquire if he was a plumber and what not

They did it to dig dirt up on him cause he made Obama look bad


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## dilloduck (Nov 8, 2008)

Andrew2382 said:


> Dawn,
> 
> To me it doesn't even matter?  HE can be poor, rich, middle class. It don't matter.  Citizens have the right to question politicans regardless of THEIR OWN situation in life.
> 
> ...



Apparently not but since no private citizen will get to ask Obama a question again, I think we're all safe. That's it folks (as porkey pig would say). That was our big chance.


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## Annie (Nov 8, 2008)

Andrew2382 said:


> Dawn,
> 
> To me it doesn't even matter?  HE can be poor, rich, middle class. It don't matter.  Citizens have the right to question politicans regardless of THEIR OWN situation in life.
> 
> ...



Agreed. Joe had the right to ask a question, though it wasn't he that sought out Obama. His asking a question that resulted in a 'misspeak' shouldn't have led to his popularity, much less the investigations and reports of his past, he was not the one running for office.

Why nothing on the background of some of the fools off youtube? Well they didn't lead to the 'spread the wealth' meme.

Well Joe's question, nor Barack's answer didn't derail Obama's election. So why not leave the guy alone?


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## Paulie (Nov 8, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> For freaking out loud! I post about something Obama does or says and I'm slammed for 'not giving him a chance.'
> 
> If he's so freaking wonderful, why can't the left write about what he's doing or planning on doing? Oh I know, they don't know. Really, they don't know sh** about him or his plans. They have hope for change or belief in change or belief in hope, I get confused on their agenda.
> 
> So the left is left with attacking the party and officials that lost and a plumber. Going to be a great time ahead.



I don't know Kath, I think there's a legitimate reason to criticize this guy now.  He was used directly by the McCain campaign to promote the idea, through his own words, that redistributing the wealth is bad policy, meanwhile he himself benefitted from just such a policy.

To me, that's morally and ethically wrong.


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## DiveCon (Nov 8, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> Apparently not but since no private citizen will get to ask Obama a question again, I think we're all safe. That's it folks (as porkey pig would say). That was our big chance.


"th..th.. thats all folks"


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## Isolde (Nov 8, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> I don't know Kath, I think there's a legitimate reason to criticize this guy now.  He was used directly by the McCain campaign to promote the idea, through his own words, that redistributing the wealth is bad policy, meanwhile he himself benefitted from just such a policy.
> 
> To me, that's morally and ethically wrong.



A bit of hyperbole going on here. Apparently, Joe has received a handout at some point or another, though I haven't read the specifics of what exactly he received. I received low interest student loans to pay for my college tuition. Sure, I guess that's a handout. 

However, I completely disagree with the premise of giving people tax credits who don't pay into the system. Dude, that's just whack.


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## The Paperboy (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Joe wanted to be in the media spotlight - so he got what he deserved. Gee, I wonder who tipped off the media about Joe's welfare.



Not at first he didn't. The media attacked a private citizen for asking a question and hardly paid attention to Obama's answer. This was a disgraceful moment in American politics.


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## Annie (Nov 8, 2008)

Paulitics said:


> I don't know Kath, I think there's a legitimate reason to criticize this guy now.  He was used directly by the McCain campaign to promote the idea, through his own words, that redistributing the wealth is bad policy, meanwhile he himself benefitted from just such a policy.
> 
> To me, that's morally and ethically wrong.



We disagree. I think all Americans have the right to question their representatives, without intimidation. If one is not intimidated by the investigation into Joe, one is a fool.


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## PoliticalChic (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Do you have any idea how many people have questioned this guy? Not only is he black, not only is he relatively unknown to the world up until 4 years ago, not only does he have questionable associations, not only did his pastor for 20 years yell out loudly "GOD DAMN AMERICA" on tape for all to see, not only did he defeat the Clinton machine, not only did he spend a good part of his youth in Inodnesia, but he is also running for president. He has held hundreds of town hall meetings with people just like you and me, he has met with hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans like you and me who have all questioned him. Have we all been destroyed?
> 
> No.
> 
> ...



Don't even go down that hypocrisy road.  The biggest hypocrite is Obama.  Even I spared my dime to help out his brother George living in a hut in Kenya, when he wouldn't.  This is a non-story.  Joe wasn't running for office, he merely stepped out of his house and asked a candidate of the presidential candidate.  

People who didn't have the authority went into his private files and dug up "dirt," so that they could use it to smear Joe.  This is disgusting and the people who did this should be held accountable.

Some of your posts are good, this one wasn't.


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## tymebeta (Nov 8, 2008)

You guys missed the real point of Joe.  His real job was to make Palin look better.

No one cared that he asked Obama a question as a citizen, just like that one student who "ambushed" Palin at that coffee shop (I think).  McCain made Joe a public figure.  Joe kept himself in the spotlight and he's milking it.  I have no sympathy for him nor does he seem to care anyways.


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## jaded110 (Nov 8, 2008)

I wish this asshole would go away. YOUR 14:59 MINUTES ARE UP!


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## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

The Paperboy said:


> Not at first he didn't. The media attacked a private citizen for asking a question and hardly paid attention to Obama's answer. This was a disgraceful moment in American politics.



Show me one negative story about Joe the Plumber before the final debate occured where John the McCain mentioned Joe the Plumber a million times. "My old buddy, Joe the Plumber." One negative news story about Joe the Plumber before the debate. Because JTP appeared on FoxNews the day after.


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## OohRah Mama (Nov 8, 2008)

Andrew2382 said:


> and why did the media even inquire if he was a plumber and what not
> 
> They did it to dig dirt up on him cause he made Obama look bad




Just wondering...do you actually think about what you're going to say before you post. At all?


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## dilloduck (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Show me one negative story about Joe the Plumber before the final debate occured where John the McCain mentioned Joe the Plumber a million times. "My old buddy, Joe the Plumber." One negative news story about Joe the Plumber before the debate. Because JTP appeared on FoxNews the day after.



The only story here is that Joe stole the media's thunder. They didn't like it. They're assholes and not doing their job as journalists.


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## jaded110 (Nov 8, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> The only story here is that Joe stole the media's thunder. They didn't like it. They're assholes and not doing their job as journalists.



I thought the story was that he was an attention-seeking media whore?


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## Andrew2382 (Nov 8, 2008)

OohRah Mama said:


> Just wondering...do you actually think about what you're going to say before you post. At all?





Because your opinion means anything?

If I wanted to talk to someone of your intellect I would be at my local supermarket speaking to the grapefruit


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## DiveCon (Nov 8, 2008)

jaded110 said:


> I thought the story was that he was an attention-seeking media whore?


yeah, cause anyone that walks out their door is a media whore

he didnt seek out Obama, Obama was in HIS neighborhood


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## Chris (Nov 8, 2008)

The Paperboy said:


> What's unbelieveable is the media made the story about Joe, not Obama's answer.



No, John McCain made Joe the story.

He kept bringing him up over and over and over again.


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## jaded110 (Nov 8, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> yeah, cause anyone that walks out their door is a media whore
> 
> he didnt seek out Obama, Obama was in HIS neighborhood



Yeah... and now after the Election he has a book deal and a blog, just because his name was mentioned on the news.


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## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> We disagree. I think all Americans have the right to question their representatives, without intimidation. If one is not intimidated by the investigation into Joe, one is a fool.



He did ask Obama a question and Obama didn't intimidate him. If that was the extent of it, it would've been over.

Now separately: McCain used Joe the Plumber a total of 20+ times in the debate. This made Joe the Plumber famous. Joe then went out to the media and had several conversations with them. Again, no problems. Then JTP went on FauxNews and went on the Sean Hannity Show. This raised a red flag. People wanted to know who this Joe the Plumber was - so they researched him. Turns out, he owes taxes. Turns out he was on welfare. Turns out he makes $40,000 a year. Turns out he doesn't have nearly enough money to even think about buying his boss' business. 

Turns out Joe lied about EVERYTHING. Then he goes around and spreads lies about Obama and socialism and Obama and Israel. Turns out this guy is nothing more than a manufacutred fraud.


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## Annie (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> He did ask Obama a question and Obama didn't intimidate him. If that was the extent of it, it would've been over.
> 
> Now separately: McCain used Joe the Plumber a total of 20+ times in the debate. This made Joe the Plumber famous. Joe then went out to the media and had several conversations with them. Again, no problems. Then JTP went on FauxNews and went on the Sean Hannity Show. This raised a red flag. People wanted to know who this Joe the Plumber was - so they researched him. Turns out, he owes taxes. Turns out he was on welfare. Turns out he makes $40,000 a year. Turns out he doesn't have nearly enough money to even think about buying his boss' business.
> 
> Turns out Joe lied about EVERYTHING. Then he goes around and spreads lies about Obama and socialism and Obama and Israel. Turns out this guy is nothing more than a manufacutred fraud.


Again, attack McCain if you or the media wish. He used Joe, because his answer elicited some of the information many of us feared about Barack. In the long run, no damage done, most seem comfortable with socialism. That the arms of the government and media were used to pick through his life, silences us all.


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## DiveCon (Nov 8, 2008)

jaded110 said:


> Yeah... and now after the Election he has a book deal and a blog, just because his name was mentioned on the news.


and i hope he makes MILLIONS on it


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## DiveCon (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> He did ask Obama a question and Obama didn't intimidate him. If that was the extent of it, it would've been over.
> 
> Now separately: McCain used Joe the Plumber a total of 20+ times in the debate. This made Joe the Plumber famous. Joe then went out to the media and had several conversations with them. Again, no problems. Then JTP went on FauxNews and went on the Sean Hannity Show. This raised a red flag. People wanted to know who this Joe the Plumber was - so they researched him. Turns out, he owes taxes. Turns out he was on welfare. Turns out he makes $40,000 a year. Turns out he doesn't have nearly enough money to even think about buying his boss' business.
> 
> Turns out Joe lied about EVERYTHING. Then he goes around and spreads lies about Obama and socialism and Obama and Israel. Turns out this guy is nothing more than a manufacutred fraud.


no, thats wrong
the MEDIA sought HIM out after the debate


----------



## del (Nov 8, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> no, thats wrong
> the MEDIA sought HIM out after the debate



i can't wait til this election is over.

heh heh


----------



## dilloduck (Nov 8, 2008)

del said:


> i can't wait til this election is over.
> 
> heh heh



When it is we can pick it to death in hindsight. Yippy !!!

I want more polls !!!!!!!!!


----------



## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> no, thats wrong
> the MEDIA sought HIM out after the debate



And all of the coverage of Joe was positive until he went on FoxNews.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> And all of the coverage of Joe was positive until he went on FoxNews.


like HELL it was

he didnt go on Fox News till after they started trashing him
are you really this much of a fucking moron you have to attack a guy for asking a question?


----------



## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> like HELL it was
> 
> he didnt go on Fox News till after they started trashing him
> are you really this much of a fucking moron you have to attack a guy for asking a question?



Are you really this much of a fucking moron to know that JTP was on the Sean Hannity radio show no less than 24 hours after the debate?


----------



## bk1983 (Nov 8, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> LOL
> 
> Tax dodger, welfare recipient, and pathological liar!
> 
> I love this guy!



he reminds me of paperboy


----------



## bk1983 (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Are you really this much of a fucking moron to know that JTP was on the Sean Hannity radio show no less than 24 hours after the debate?



yup, He was on FNC and the Drudge report before the debate.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Are you really this much of a fucking moron to know that JTP was on the Sean Hannity radio show no less than 24 hours after the debate?


ok, you are a fucking moron, you dont understand that Sean Hannity's radio show has NOTHING to do with Fox News


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 8, 2008)

bk1983 said:


> yup, He was on FNC and the Drudge report before the debate.


proof?

nevermind, you wont find it, because you are a fucking LIAR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_the_plumber#Media_appearances


yes yes, i know its only wiki


----------



## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

bk1983 said:


> he reminds me of paperboy


----------



## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> ok, you are a fucking moron, you dont understand that Sean Hannity's radio show has NOTHING to do with Fox News



uh...

Sean Hannity is one-half of Hannity & Colmes.

Also, JTP appeared on Huckabee's show on 10/18/08 on FoxNews - two days after the debate.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> uh...
> 
> Sean Hannity is one-half of Hannity & Colmes.
> 
> Also, JTP appeared on Huckabee's show on 10/18/08 on FoxNews - two days after the debate.


yes, but his radio show has NOTHING to do with Fox News

and he talked with Couric first SHE sought him out


----------



## bk1983 (Nov 8, 2008)

JTP is a fraud and doesn't understand how a progressive tax system works. Here he is on CNN being schooled [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MjvOeT8Hu8]YouTube - CNN anchor takes on Joe the Plumber[/ame]


----------



## Isolde (Nov 8, 2008)

bk1983 said:


> JTP is a fraud and doesn't understand how a progressive tax system works. Here he is on CNN being schooled YouTube - CNN anchor takes on Joe the Plumber



Progressive taxes are punitive. There is nothing more to understand than that.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 8, 2008)

Isolde said:


> Progressive taxes are punitive. There is nothing more to understand than that.



I like what you've done with your avatar.


----------



## Isolde (Nov 8, 2008)

DavidS said:


> I like what you've done with your avatar.



Naughty zoot.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 9, 2008)

Isolde said:


> Progressive taxes are punitive. There is nothing more to understand than that.


i have no problem with some progressive tax policies
as long as the differences in the rate were not excessive


----------



## jreeves (Nov 9, 2008)

editec said:


> Joe the liar was a tool.
> 
> Wans't that obvious?


Does that change this??
President Obama the redistributor


----------



## Ravi (Nov 9, 2008)

This is a phenomenon that always mystifies me. Some of the most vocal critics, here on the board and in "real" life, of welfare, tax credits for the poor, social security...are the very ones that benefit from them the most.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 9, 2008)

jreeves said:


> Does that change this??
> President Obama the redistributor



Are you going to decline the tax cut and send the government's rebate check back in the mail or tear it up?


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 9, 2008)

Ravi said:


> This is a phenomenon that always mystifies me. Some of the most vocal critics, here on the board and in "real" life, of welfare, tax credits for the poor, social security...are the very ones that benefit from them the most.


it mystifies you because you are a moron
while there might be some that oppose it in all cases, that is a small minority, most conservatives dont have a problem helping those that RERALLY need it, its those that DONT need it but are playing the system that we want to get OFF the system
the rest are only on it because they dont have any other choice
if you could get your head out of your ass for a moment you might begin to understand the difference


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 9, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Are you going to decline the tax cut and send the government's rebate check back in the mail or tear it up?


LOL
do you ACTUALLY still believe he will give you a tax cut?


----------



## DavidS (Nov 9, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> LOL
> do you ACTUALLY still believe he will give you a tax cut?



Uh, yes. He's made it quite clear that he's going to do that. Remember that infomercial that 35 million people watched?

I also know that his top priority will be to pass a stimulus package that could be in the form of a rebate check. 

So, once again, I'm going to ask every single con here:

How many of you will tear up your rebate checks and pay a higher amount of money to the government in taxes?


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 9, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Uh, yes. He's made it quite clear that he's going to do that. Remember that infomercial that 35 million people watched?
> 
> I also know that his top priority will be to pass a stimulus package that could be in the form of a rebate check.
> 
> ...


LOL ok
i have a funny feeling you are going to be shocked then


----------



## DavidS (Nov 9, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> LOL ok
> i have a funny feeling you are going to be shocked then



Weren't you the one saying all of the polls were wrong and Obama wouldn't win?


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 9, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Weren't you the one saying all of the polls were wrong and Obama wouldn't win?


no
i said they were over sampling, i never said he wouldnt win
i said it was too close to tell


but, i hardly expect him to give anyone a tax cut
at least not those that are actually PAYING taxes

"things are worse than we thought, we cant do that now"


----------



## CSM (Nov 9, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Are you going to decline the tax cut and send the government's rebate check back in the mail or tear it up?



Interesting. How much "extra" money have you sent to the IRS with your yearly income tax?  Seems to me that if raising taxes is the answer then all those who voted for Obama because he will raise taxes should be sending more money than is required on their tax forms.  

Of course, what they really voted for was the idea that SOMEONE ELSE pays exhorbitant taxes so they wont have to.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 9, 2008)

Silence said:


> I agree, that's why I didn't post this the other day when I found out about it.
> 
> He's a hypocrite and a liar but joe is a non-story now.






don't count him out just yet. Joe the Plumber has a movement going on. Don't know how long it will last but he does.. If I can find the website again I'll post it for you


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 9, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Are you going to decline the tax cut and send the government's rebate check back in the mail or tear it up?






we the people are not going to get any checks this time around. Statels like California, Michigan, Mass. and New Hampshire, and the big 3 auto will be getting yer taxpayer dollars so don't make any grandiose plans on what you'
re going to do with yer money..


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 9, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> LOL
> do you ACTUALLY still believe he will give you a tax cut?








He better give us a tax cut or be labeled the big fat liar that I think he is.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 9, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> no
> i said they were over sampling, i never said he wouldnt win
> i said it was too close to tell
> 
> ...



Everyone PAYS taxes. FICA. The only people who don't pay taxes are those who don't work.


----------



## Silence (Nov 9, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> no
> i said they were over sampling, i never said he wouldnt win
> i said it was too close to tell



6% and 360 Electoral votes later I don't think it was too close to call.


----------



## Silence (Nov 9, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> don't count him out just yet. Joe the Plumber has a movement going on. Don't know how long it will last but he does.. If I can find the website again I'll post it for you



I think the only movement coming from Joe the Plumber in the near future is a bowel movement


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 9, 2008)

Silence said:


> I think the only movement coming from Joe the Plumber in the near future is a bowel movement





you don't wanna know about that movement do ya?


----------



## Red Dawn (Nov 9, 2008)

It's obvious why Joe Not the Plumber felt like he had to lie about who he was when he asked the question. 

What is it, like 1% of americans that EVER make over 250k in net taxable income?  The odds are infintesimally small that a welfare-receiving, undereducated high school graduate like Joe Not the Plumber is ever going to make money even approaching that level. 

So this - the truth - wouldn't have sounded as compelling:



> Senator Obama, I'm a working stiff making 40k a year and I would do better under your tax plan.  But there's a small possibility that _someday_ I _might_ make 250k in net taxable income ....will you screw me if  I do?




Joe Not the Plumber obviously thought this - not the truth - sounded better and more compelling:



> Senator Obama, I'm a plumber who is buying a company that has a 250k net taxable profit.  Are you going to screw me?




Joe Not the Plumber obviously felt the truth, would not sound as compelling when he parroted a talking point he learned from Rush Limbaugh.   

I don't care...let Joe ask his question.  But, at least the way most of us were raised, we're going to mock someone who lies.  Its hilarious when somebody has to lie, to make a political point. 

And I don't care if Joe Not the Plumber got welfare.  Its fine, it sounds like maybe his chips were down and he needed help.   Nothing wrong with that, that's what liberal policies are for.


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 9, 2008)

Joe the Plumber and Tito the Builder.. are a team! 



I love them...


I love anybody who can *out cheat* the liberals.


----------



## editec (Nov 9, 2008)

> Senator Obama, I'm a working stiff making 40k a year and I would do better under your tax plan. But there's a small possibility that _someday_ I _might_ make 250k in net taxable income ....will you screw me if I do?


 
Exactly.

And the real _sotto voce_ message he was conveying was this:



> Senator Obama, I'm working stiff, but I know if I stick my nose far enough up the asses of the master class, by asking you a question based on only nothing but lies, they might take pity on me and help me make a living wage and who knows, maybe even give health care.
> 
> I'm an obsequious toadie and I'll lie for food.


 
Joe the plumber was basically nothing but a class traitor.


----------



## Silence (Nov 9, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> you don't wanna know about that movement do ya?



 not that one no.  

did you find the link you were looking for?  I need a good laugh this morning


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 9, 2008)

editec said:


> Exactly.
> 
> And the real _sotto voce_ message he was conveying was this:
> 
> ...


it wasnt the question, you moron, it was Obama's answer
but assholes like you and the rest of the obamabots dont want to focus on that


----------



## WillowTree (Nov 9, 2008)

Silence said:


> not that one no.
> 
> did you find the link you were looking for?  I need a good laugh this morning





not yet but I will, Joe TP and Tito TB were on Huckabee last nite, and he gave a web site,,, Huckabee will re air sometime today and I will get it.


----------



## editec (Nov 9, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> it wasnt the question, you moron, it was Obama's answer
> but assholes like you and the rest of the obamabots dont want to focus on that


 
Doesn't it give you pause, that you team lies and lies and lies?

Apparently not.

What was Obama answer?

If you make more than $250,000 a year, your taxes will increase.  He was candid about that.

I don't have any trouble focusing on that.

Those making more than $250,000 a year have enjoyed far greater tax deductions in the last 8 years, than Obama's planning to raise them.

I hope I did not cause you a moment's discomfort asking you to focus on _that._


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 9, 2008)

editec said:


> Doesn't it give you pause, that you team lies and lies and lies?
> 
> Apparently not.
> 
> ...


where are the lies?

he asked a simple question
and for that he has a public rectal exam?
sorry, thats not right
it wouldn't matter if he was an asshole that beat his wife nightly and kicked puppies
the question was still valid and Obama's answer was what SHOULD have been the focal point
maybe if you had an ounce of intellectual integrity you would be able to see that


----------



## jreeves (Nov 9, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Are you going to decline the tax cut and send the *government's *rebate *check* back in the mail or tear it up?



That's where your wrong, it was my money to begin with.....


----------



## jreeves (Nov 9, 2008)

jreeves said:


> That's where your wrong, it was my money to begin with.....



Besides the fact, I will be anxiously waiting by the mailbox for that check. Damn 4 years is going to be a long time to wait, I hope my employer understands....


----------



## Annie (Nov 9, 2008)

editec said:


> Exactly.
> 
> And the real _sotto voce_ message he was conveying was this:
> 
> ...



Do you hear yourself? One should assume you wish to stay on the stoop with your bottle or reefer, collecting off the upper class?


----------



## editec (Nov 9, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> where are the lies?


 
You're kidding right?

Uhm...his personal history, perhaps?  You know his preface to the question which was a complete fabrication?

The sad part is he could have asked the same damned question without lying, and by doing so he'd have been the darling of the right without shitting on his own reputation at the same time.

He'd have gotten the same answer from Obama , either way.

From my perspective the man's a liar and class traitor, and a tool.

But if he's just asked the same damned question without lying, he'd have been a reasonable guy who just wanted clarification about Obama policies.

Why DID he lie, anyway?

I don't get it.


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 9, 2008)

editec said:


> You're kidding right?
> 
> Uhm...his personal history, perhaps?  You know his preface to the question which was a complete fabrication?
> 
> ...


again, what was the lie?


----------



## DavidS (Nov 9, 2008)

Silence said:


> 6% and 360 Electoral votes later I don't think it was too close to call.



 just let him live in his imaginary world.

pssst....

Obama will stick to middle-class tax cut - Mike Allen - Politico.com


----------



## DavidS (Nov 9, 2008)

WillowTree said:


> Joe the Plumber and Tito the Builder.. are a team!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Note to Republicans:

Mascots don't help you win the big one.

Signed,

Chicago Cubs Mascot


----------



## DavidS (Nov 9, 2008)

jreeves said:


> That's where your wrong, it was my money to begin with.....



Your money to begin with? Do you mean to tell me that you think taxes are too high? Guess what, Obama's gonna lower them!


----------



## jreeves (Nov 9, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Your money to begin with? Do you mean to tell me that you think taxes are too high? Guess what, Obama's gonna lower them!



Like I said I will be waiting by the mailbox. I don't know, something about "Spreading the wealth" is scary though.


----------



## jreeves (Nov 9, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Your money to begin with? Do you mean to tell me that you think taxes are too high? Guess what, Obama's gonna lower them!



Can you show me where Obama has a long history of cutting taxes? Do you need me to show you his record on raising taxes?


----------



## Chris (Nov 9, 2008)

jreeves said:


> Like I said I will be waiting by the mailbox. I don't know, something about "Spreading the wealth" is scary though.



Scary for rich people like you.


----------



## jreeves (Nov 9, 2008)

Chris said:


> Scary for rich people like you.



Yep Obama considers the middle class rich....


----------



## DavidS (Nov 9, 2008)

jreeves said:


> Can you show me where Obama has a long history of cutting taxes? Do you need me to show you his record on raising taxes?



Yes, please show me every single bill he's voted on that's either passed or failed in the United States Senate where he's voted yes on raising taxes.


----------



## jreeves (Nov 9, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Yes, please show me every single bill he's voted on that's either passed or failed in the United States Senate where he's voted yes on raising taxes.



What is scary his history in the US Senate is almost too short for any relevant votes on raising taxes. Although there was the budget resolution, that would have raised taxes on those making $42,000 and above. I realize it was a budget resolution...

But his record in the Ill state Senate is littered with raising taxes...

The first vote marks the first of a series to create exceptions to the "tax cap" legislation that was passed in 1991. Ignoring that this was the most popular reform in Illinois in the past 15 years, the first chance the Democrats had a chance to, they began poking holes in the system.  Without further ado:

March 6, 2003 - SB83 (Link): Obama voted "AYE" to create the first in the series of exceptions; Senator Lauzen (R-Aurora), led the charge against the bill because of a last minute amendment by Senator Link (D-Lake Bluff) which allowed the Cook County Forest Preserve District to borrow one hundred million dollars without asking the voters, by creating an exception to the tax caps:

Why would we not ask the voters? What's your philosophical concept of why not ask the voters before we obligate them with a hundred million dollars' worth of additional debt?

Once the rest of the Republicans took notice of the amendment, they called for a caucus meeting for fifteen minutes.  The Democrats fought it, but were ultimately pushed into complying with traditional Senatorial rules and procedures.  Nonetheless the bill passed, and so it began.   

March 26, 2003 - SB22 (Woolard): Obama voted "AYE" to create another exception to the tax caps; this bill was camouflaged as "security for our kids" legislation, with a tax increase.  Once again Senator Lauzen, to no surprise, rose in opposition and asked the Democrats why they didn't believe the public should have a voice in this decision:

Why don't we have confidence enough in our parents, in taxpayers, that you ask us for whatever improvements needs to be done to protect the life and safety of our children, we're going to vote no on that in a referendum? Why don't we just ask the voters??

The Democrats had a hard time arguing against Lauzen on the merits of the voters' will, but chose to ignore it anyway.  As Obama sat quietly on the sidelines, Senator Woolard (D-Benton) articulated his party's position:

We believe that if, in fact, the voters in that particular district request that that vote be taken, we -- we've reduced the number of registered voters that have to sign a card to five percent.  And if that comes forward, then it's mandated that the school board does go to referendum, and I believe that addresses the concerns that you have.

In other words, if the voters don't want their taxes raised they're the ones that have to start a referendum, not the other way around as the law intended.  The burden is on the taxpayers.  What a twisted view of Democracy.

April 4, 2003 - SB1049 (Walsh): Obama voted "AYE" on another exception to the tax caps; this one for school districts, specifically for contributions to the IMRF fund, for Medicare A & B coverage, and coverage under the federal insurance contributions.  At this point the Republicans knew they couldn't stop most of the Democrats' tax increases but rose in opposition anyway.  Senator Roskam (now a Congressman representing Illinois' 6th CD) spoke about the Democrats' hypocrisy on tax caps: 

Senator Walsh put it well when he acknowledged that taxes are going to go up.  There's no doubt about it.  And we don't get it both ways in this Chamber.  We don't get to say "We support the tax cap, except." We don't get to do that.  We either support the tax cap or we throw the tax cap under the bus.

Obama voted aye, the bill passed, and taxes went up.  Again. 

April 9, 2003 - SB315 (Viverito): Obama voted "AYE" on another tax cap exception; this one being sold by the Democrats as "security for our waterways"; the water district in question had not held a referendum in thirty years, but Democrats chose to go around the tax cap instead of asking the voters, with Obama's crew giving the nature of the "emergency" as a reason to raise taxes.  We're familiar with that one in California...

Note that all those votes to go around the tax cap could have been accomplished by giving the voters a choice through a referendum.  The tax cap legislation was built that way for a reason.  If Obama thought these taxes were so important and urgent, as his party's talking points clearly illustratre, why wouldn't the voters agree?  Well, Barack and his friends weren't done yet.  One day would top off their three month tax-raising crusade. 

The title of this post includes a reference to one day; one infamous day.  In this case it was May 31, 2003.  The day Obama and his colleagues passed one and a half billion dollars worth of new taxes; most of it in less than fifteen minutes.  The day Obama voted for one of the most despised taxes in America: the death tax.  Here are the back-to-back votes, carried by the "Tax Tag Team":  

Concurrence Vote on HA04 to SB1733: Obama voted "AYE" on an amendment that created the Gas Use Tax Act.  At a time when natural gas prices had tripled in the state in the last four years Obama and his friends decided that adding an extra 5% wouldn't hurt. Prices have doubled since then. 

Concurrence Vote on HA02 to SB1774: Obama voted "AYE" on an amendment that increased the liquor tax collection discount, and increased the license fee imposed on liquor retailers from $174 a year to $500, with $250 of the increase going straight to the general fund.  It also abolished any end of year balance being credited to licensees.  To top it off it also forced cigarrette sellers to pay the "tax stamp" on behalf of consumers before they actually made the sale of those cigarrettes.  I specially liked a line by Democrat Senator Teddy Link (self-admitted member of the "tax tag team") about how they're "just trying to change the taxes in this state to make 'em fair to everybody".  Please.

Concurrence Vote on HA02 to SB 1725: To say that Barack and his friends saved the best for last would be an understatement.  To end the day Obama voted "AYE" on an amendment that effectively created the "death tax" in Illinois by decoupling it from the federal tax.  Republican Senator Dave Sullivan described his party's disgust:

Ladies and gentlemen of the Senate, death should not be a taxable event.  In three bills tonight we are raising approximately 1.2 billion dollars in tax increases on about fifteen minutes of debate.  That's eighty million dollars per minute.  Even by State spending standards that's obscene.  The public should be outraged by what is going on here tonight.

Eighty million dollars per minute.  To borrow a line from Senator McCain: even a drunken sailor would resent that.

Of course none of these votes would have passed if the Republicans would have been able to swing enough Dem votes in the Senate to pass SJRCA57 back in 1998; which would have required any new tax increases in Illinois to pass a 3/5s vote of both houses.  For the record, Obama voted "NAY" on that one in case you were wondering. 

With the Democrats in the House and the Senate promising at least one trillion dollars in new tax increases, can we afford to have the only person with the veto pen going from billions to trillions by sitting on the sidelines? I think not.  


Obama Watch: Barack on Taxes - The Day of Infamy - NATIONAL, Part of the Red County Network


----------



## Chris (Nov 9, 2008)

We have a $500 billion dollar deficit.

 Someone's taxes are going to have to be raised.


----------



## editec (Nov 10, 2008)

Chris said:


> We have a $500 billion dollar deficit.
> 
> Someone's taxes are going to have to be raised.


 
Yup.

Push comes to shove you can expect that we'll ALL be paying more taxes one way or the other.

I expect that we'll be seeing increasing user taxes for example.

Hopefully we'll see TARIFFS on imported goods, which is ALSO a kind of tax that we'll be paying, too.

If we do that wisely, the long term benefits will outweight the short term pain of paying more for imported goods.


----------



## Annie (Nov 10, 2008)

editec said:


> Yup.
> 
> Push comes to shove you can expect that we'll ALL be paying more taxes one way or the other.
> 
> ...



Yeah, tariffs worked great in the 1930's. 

Timeline of the Great Depression


----------



## editec (Nov 10, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> again, what was the lie?


 
His personally history Dive.

He lied and lied and lied again about _who he was._

I'll ask the same question again...

why?

He could have made his point without lying about who he was.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 10, 2008)

jreeves said:


> What is scary his history in the US Senate is almost too short for any relevant votes on raising taxes. Although there was the budget resolution, that would have raised taxes on those making $42,000 and above. I realize it was a budget resolution...



You're getting this information from a partisan news source. Here is Obama's entire voting record.

Barack Obama - U.S. Senator for Illinois

Please post the entire transcript without cutting anything from the text of every single bill he has voted for that has raised taxes.

Thank you.


----------



## DavidS (Nov 10, 2008)

Chris said:


> We have a $500 *trillion* dollar deficit.
> 
> Someone's taxes are going to have to be raised.


----------



## bigdaddygtr (Nov 10, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> For freaking out loud! I post about something Obama does or says and I'm slammed for 'not giving him a chance.'
> 
> If he's so freaking wonderful, why can't the left write about what he's doing or planning on doing? Oh I know, they don't know. Really, they don't know sh** about him or his plans. They have hope for change or belief in change or belief in hope, I get confused on their agenda.
> 
> So the left is left with attacking the party and officials that lost and a plumber. Going to be a great time ahead.




Excuse me, but just because you're not a very bright person and can't understand what Obama is gonna do doesn't mean that I can't.  Wow, you sound like a grumpy b@@tch who just got her ass kicked in an election and is now mad about it


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 10, 2008)

editec said:


> His personally history Dive.
> 
> He lied and lied and lied again about _who he was._
> 
> ...


no, he didnt
you are lying to say he did
you guys love to attack anyone that didnt follow in line for Obama
its sickening


----------



## DiveCon (Nov 10, 2008)

bigdaddygtr said:


> Excuse me, but just because you're not a very bright person and can't understand what Obama is gonna do doesn't mean that I can't.  Wow, you sound like a grumpy b@@tch who just got her ass kicked in an election and is now mad about it


you should take your sig line to heart


----------



## Annie (Nov 10, 2008)

bigdaddygtr said:


> Excuse me, but just because you're not a very bright person and can't understand what Obama is gonna do doesn't mean that I can't.  Wow, you sound like a grumpy b@@tch who just got her ass kicked in an election and is now mad about it



Actually I lost my temper at the inanity of what I've been seeing here. You folks don't seem to know how to celebrate a victory. I don't get it, I just don't. I'm amazed at the level of anger from the left, after a victory. There was a message, which I failed to understand of 'Hope', 'Beliefs', and 'Change', because I kept failing to pick up specifics. I just couldn't get it. But more people did than questioned it. YOUR SIDE WON!!!! Where is the happiness and why the continuing anger? 

Instead I see all these angry folks at a plumber and a woman who's returned to Alaska. Hounding them makes things better, how? Then there's folks that seem to just go off at those who fail to jump on their bandwagon, even when nothing derogatory is written.

Catch a clue, many have serious reservations about the President-Elect. We have the right to have our reservations, concerns, skepticism if you will. I will not ever put a bumper sticker on a car saying, "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him." Never. I didn't vote for him. 

He'll be the President of US, my country. Right or wrong? Nope. I won't fail to voice my disagreements with him or his administration or the Congress. However, would I write or sign petitions that denigrate him or his policies that were visible to the 'world'? No. Would I hammer a representative of our government and tried to negotiate or conduct diplomacy that undermined the executive branch of my government? Yes, regardless of party. 

I don't understand the winners inability to understand. Nevertheless, I wish you and your winner the best.


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## Ravi (Nov 10, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> no, he didnt
> you are lying to say he did
> you guys love to attack anyone that didnt follow in line for Obama
> its sickening



*Joe:* I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes about $250,000  $270-$280,000 a year.

Which part of that was true?


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## DiveCon (Nov 10, 2008)

Ravi said:


> *Joe:* I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes about $250,000  $270-$280,000 a year.
> 
> Which part of that was true?


it was a hypothetical, you DO know what those are, right?


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## DavidS (Nov 10, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> it was a hypothetical, you DO know what those are, right?



Getting ready to is not hypothetical. Fixing to is not hypothetical. Thinking about is hypothetical.


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## Ravi (Nov 10, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> it was a hypothetical, you DO know what those are, right?


Yes, I do. And no, it wasn't. Find the entire interview and listen to it...he totally misrepresented himself.


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## dilloduck (Nov 10, 2008)

Kathianne said:


> Actually I lost my temper at the inanity of what I've been seeing here. You folks don't seem to know how to celebrate a victory. I don't get it, I just don't. I'm amazed at the level of anger from the left, after a victory. There was a message, which I failed to understand of 'Hope', 'Beliefs', and 'Change', because I kept failing to pick up specifics. I just couldn't get it. But more people did than questioned it. YOUR SIDE WON!!!! Where is the happiness and why the continuing anger?
> 
> Instead I see all these angry folks at a plumber and a woman who's returned to Alaska. Hounding them makes things better, how? Then there's folks that seem to just go off at those who fail to jump on their bandwagon, even when nothing derogatory is written.
> 
> ...



good point---apparently after years of being on offense they don't even remember how to run a defense---either that or they don't have anything they can defend yet. Sorta like Congress for the last two years until they passed the "bailout" .


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## DiveCon (Nov 10, 2008)

DavidS said:


> Getting ready to is not hypothetical. Fixing to is not hypothetical. Thinking about is hypothetical.


yes it is
go live in TX for about 10 years
maybe by then you will understand


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## AllieBaba (Nov 10, 2008)

Once again:

Joe isn't running for office.
Whether or not he "misrepresented" himself during the minute it took him to pose a question to Obama doesn't matter.

What matters is Obama's answer. It makes no difference whether Joe is on welfare or looking to go into business or is posing a hypothetical. What matters is that Obama was exposed.

Accept it and move on. Please. I'm begging you.


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## Annie (Nov 10, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> Once again:
> 
> Joe isn't running for office.
> Whether or not he "misrepresented" himself during the minute it took him to pose a question to Obama doesn't matter.
> ...



Agree with this exactly. If he ever was relevant, it ended last Tuesday. Get over it, move on, celebrate you win.


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## jreeves (Nov 10, 2008)

DavidS said:


> You're getting this information from a *partisan news source*. Here is Obama's entire voting record.
> 
> Barack Obama - U.S. Senator for Illinois
> 
> ...


Do you think the Democratic National Committee would provide votes made by Obama that raised taxes? Get real, of course the source is going to have a slant to it. How is the source unfair to Obama as far as his record is concerned?


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## DiveCon (Nov 10, 2008)

jreeves said:


> Do you think the Democratic National Committee would provide votes made by Obama that raised taxes? Get real, of course the source is going to have a slant to it. How is the source unfair to Obama as far as his record is concerned?


thats actually Obama's senate website
but, with the way his campaign site was scrubbed, i wouldnt doubt they did it there too


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## OohRah Mama (Nov 15, 2008)

Andrew2382 said:


> Because your opinion means anything?
> 
> If I wanted to talk to someone of your intellect I would be at my local supermarket speaking to the grapefruit



Sugarbaby, really, work on those comeback skills. *sigh* My opinion means at least as much as yours. And my punctuation seems to be better as well, but that's neither here nor there. But thanks for trying. 

Seriously, do you honestly think anyone who puts themselves on the world's media coverage isn't going to be examined closely? I appreciated people questioning both candidates. We're supposed to scrutinize candidates. That doesn't mean the person asking on national TV is somehow supposed to be insulated from scrutiny himself. Especially when he tries to pass himself off as something he's not. He got busted.

Wah.


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## bk1983 (Nov 15, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> good point---*apparently after years of being on offense they don't even remember how to run a defense*---either that or they don't have anything they can defend yet. Sorta like Congress for the last two years until they passed the "bailout" .



*The best defense is a good offence!*


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## OohRah Mama (Nov 15, 2008)

CSM said:


> Interesting. How much "extra" money have you sent to the IRS with your yearly income tax?  Seems to me that if raising taxes is the answer then all those who voted for Obama because he will raise taxes should be sending more money than is required on their tax forms.
> 
> Of course, what they really voted for was the idea that SOMEONE ELSE pays exhorbitant taxes so they wont have to.



Sweeping generalization, Sir. I didn't vote for that idea, at all. I voted for Obama for a myriad of good reasons. I don't mind paying taxes. I just don't like my poor country going to economic hell with a war on two fronts, rampant government-sanctioned racketeering that proves Gen. Smedley Butler right, and blatant disregard for our sons & daughters who are grape-deep in the sh** because of greed & free market worship disguised as patriotism. All this mess, with no farking way to pay for it all except with 1) loans from countries we should NEVER be beholden to, and 2) leaving the rest as a crushing IOU to our great-grandkids. 

It wouldn't hurt to slash certain parts of the budget - like the fatty part of the DoD...try maybe 50%+ of the moolah we're throwing away to KBR, Halliburton, etc. (My Marines got damn tired of not being allowed to do their own laundry...those private contractors got paid $100 for ONE load of our guys' clothes, and often it didn't really get washed. And God forbid my kids get shot at again to guard the civilian trucks making runs with EMPTY TRUCKS because of the no-bid contracts that pay civilians not just per mile, but also per TRIP. I don't like our heroes being hung out like that. That is WASTE and that is a national SHAME. But I digress.)

Taxes will have to go up to help get us out of this mess, and I for one won't be whining as long as the burden is FAIR. But systematically giving the wealthiest a pass is BRAVO SIERRA. It's time for them to do with less like the rest of us, to work together to fix this cluster****.


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## RoadVirus (Nov 16, 2008)

OohRah Mama said:


> Seriously, do you honestly think anyone who puts themselves on the world's media coverage isn't going to be examined closely?


Why should someone have their lives poked into for asking a question? Who give's a shit if Joe was a real plumber or not. He asked Obama a question, a right every American has. There's also a right called "Right to Privacy" and Joe's was invaded by an Obama supporter in Ohio.


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## OohRah Mama (Nov 17, 2008)

What part of "I appreciated people questioning both candidates. We're supposed to scrutinize candidates. That doesn't mean the person asking on national TV is somehow supposed to be insulated from scrutiny himself." did you not understand, dear?


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## AllieBaba (Nov 17, 2008)

People who ask questions don't need to be scrutinized, because it makes absolutely no difference if THE QUESTION IS A VALID ONE. If the question is a valid one, what the hell difference does it make who asked the question?

It doesn't.


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## DiveCon (Nov 17, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> People who ask questions don't need to be scrutinized, because it makes absolutely no difference if THE QUESTION IS A VALID ONE. If the question is a valid one, what the hell difference does it make who asked the question?
> 
> It doesn't.


come on allie, candidates can have faults, but anyone that questions them must be squeaky clean


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## OohRah Mama (Nov 17, 2008)

Honey, you just seem so bitter and angry, you don't seem to be able to discuss any valid points at all. If you don't calm down soon, all this hatred is going to give you a stroke.

Where did anyone at all here say that there was no valid question? There was a valid query - and as much as you might hate it, there was a thoughtful, valid answer.

The point many find so distasteful is not that he asked a question...it's that he tried to capitalize upon media attention by basing his newfound reputation on a lie.

You lie, you get called on it. That's something most of us learned at a very early age. Guess he ignored that lesson.

I repeat: Wah.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 17, 2008)

Lol.
LIke Anderson Cooper? Why aren't we researching every aspect of his life, the little dweeb?

Find it interesting that people would rather talk about some poor schmoe who happened to get caught on camera asking THE question that everyone wanted answered....but nobody wants to discuss Michelle's huge salary at her last job, or interview Bill Ayers to get HIS take on his relationship with Obama.....

Sort of funny how that works.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 17, 2008)

OohRah Mama said:


> Honey, you just seem so bitter and angry, you don't seem to be able to discuss any valid points at all. If you don't calm down soon, all this hatred is going to give you a stroke.
> 
> Where did anyone at all here say that there was no valid question? There was a valid query - and as much as you might hate it, there was a thoughtful, valid answer.
> 
> ...


Actually, none of that is true. Joe did his best with the press, and finally asked them to leave him the hell alone. He in no way sought out the press. They staked out his house.

Just like they flooded Alaska looking for some chink in Palin's armour. They were there specifically to bring her down. For all the good it did them.


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## OohRah Mama (Nov 17, 2008)

Yeah...that's why he needed a press agent, a recording contract negotiation, his own tour bus, interviews and schedules. 

I know that's how I'd handle unwanted media attention.

Homer: Oh, by the way: I was being sarcastic.
Marge: Well, duh.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 17, 2008)

Link?


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## Shadow (Nov 17, 2008)

DavidS said:


> uh...
> 
> Sean Hannity is one-half of Hannity & Colmes.
> 
> Also, JTP appeared on Huckabee's show on 10/18/08 on FoxNews - two days after the debate.




Do you asshats have a script you follow 24/7.  JTP BAD.  FOX BAD.  

You are such a damn lemming.


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## Red Dawn (Nov 17, 2008)

*Joe Not the Plumber - WIKIPEDIA*



Encounter with Obama:

As ABC News cameraman Scott Shulman recorded the conversation, Wurzelbacher suggested that Obama's tax plan would be at odds with "the American dream." Wurzelbacher said,  *"I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year. Your new tax plan's going to tax me more, isn't it?"*


Plumbing career

Wurzelbacher told the New York Times he is one of two employees of a small plumbing firm, Newell Plumbing and Heating Co. of Toledo, the company he described to Obama as making $250,000 to $280,000 per year. Wurzelbacher said that the idea of buying the company was discussed during his job interview six years prior.  According to MSNBC and Fox News, court records show that Wurzelbacher made $40,000 in 2006.

 Even if he did buy Newell Plumbing and Heating, Obama&#8217;s tax plan wouldn&#8217;t affect him. While Wurzelbacher told Obama that he would be taxed at a higher rate because the company grossed more than $250,000 a year,* Ohio business records show the company&#8217;s estimated total annual revenue as only $100,000. Actual taxable income would be even less than that. *.

An Associated Press article reported that Wurzelbacher does not have a plumber's license. Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics, which had endorsed Obama, stated that Wurzelbacher has not yet completed the apprentice program he began in 2003.

Wurzelbacher also acknowledged that he had _no specific plans for buying Newell&#8217;s business_, saying he and Newell had simply talked about the idea from time to time. He might have difficulty making the purchase:* Court records from his divorce show that Wurzelbacher made $40,000 in 2006.  He also owes back taxes, and has a history of being on welfare. *



wikipedia and msnbc news

'Joe the plumber' and Obamaâ&#8364;&#8482;s tax plan - The Debates


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## AllieBaba (Nov 17, 2008)

Once again, who gives a shit, and what does that have to do with Obama's assertion that he believes in spreading the wealth?


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## Red Dawn (Nov 17, 2008)

AllieBaba said:


> Once again, who gives a shit, and what does that have to do with Obama's assertion that he believes in spreading the wealth?




I don't know how you were raised, but most people are raised being taught that if they make shit up and lie, they're going to be called on it and possibly mocked and humiliated. 

You weren't raised that way?

Put it this way:  if we had a wingnut poster here, who claimed they were on the verge of graduating from Navy SEAL training and were going to be shipped out to CENTCOM for covert ops, but it turned out they were just an overweight college republican kid who had only dreamed from time to time of joining SEALs - they would never hear the fucking end of the mocking.


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## DiveCon (Nov 17, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> I don't know how you were raised, but most people are raised being taught that if they make shit up and lie, they're going to be called on it and possibly mocked and humiliated.
> 
> You weren't raised that way?
> 
> Put it this way: if we had a wingnut poster here, who claimed they were on the verge of graduating from Navy SEAL training and were going to be shipped out to CENTCOM for covert ops, but it turned out they were just an overweight college republican kid who had only dreamed from time to time of joining SEALs - they would never hear the fucking end of the mocking.


naw, you see, those guys that tend to make that stuff up are usually moonbats not right wing


either way, posers are assholes
but joe didnt just "make stuff up"
he asked a hypothetical
too bad moonbat assholes like you dont understand that


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## Isolde (Nov 17, 2008)

DiveCon said:


> naw, you see, those guys that tend to make that stuff up are usually moonbats not right wing
> 
> 
> either way, posers are assholes
> ...



Honestly, these liberal intellectuals have been telling us for years that we are the ones who don't understand nuance. 

Anyway, why is it a liberal runs from their own ideology? I am unapologetic when it comes to my conservative views. They speak in their nuanced lingo, careful with every word, but every once in awhile the truth slips out, the shit hits the fan and they deflect, deny and destroy anyone who shines a light on them.


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## dilloduck (Nov 17, 2008)

Isolde said:


> Honestly, these liberal intellectuals have been telling us for years that we are the ones who don't understand nuance.
> 
> Anyway, why is it a liberal runs from their own ideology? I am unapologetic when it comes to my conservative views. They speak in their nuanced lingo, careful with every word, but every once in awhile the truth slips out, the shit hits the fan and they deflect, deny and destroy anyone who shines a light on them.



They are afraid to death to get what they claim to want. Just watch this administration backpeddle.


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## Isolde (Nov 17, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> They are afraid to death to get what they claim to want. Just watch this administration backpeddle.



The simple-minded base will lose their collective minds.


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## dilloduck (Nov 17, 2008)

Isolde said:


> The simple-minded base will lose their collective minds.



well let's see

no immediate withdrawal of troops
no mandatory volunteering
patriot act --ok

What else do we have going ?


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## DiveCon (Nov 17, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> well let's see
> 
> no immediate withdrawal of troops
> no mandatory volunteering
> ...


those middle class tax cuts


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## RoadVirus (Nov 17, 2008)

Red Dawn said:


> I don't know how you were raised, but most people are raised being taught that if they make shit up and lie, they're going to be called on it and possibly mocked and humiliated.


Then i quess we better get started because we have a lot of people in DC who need to be humilated and mocked.


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## dilloduck (Nov 17, 2008)

RoadVirus said:


> Then i quess we better get started because we have a lot of people in DC who need to be humilated and mocked.



oh man---an endless supply


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## DiveCon (Nov 17, 2008)

dilloduck said:


> oh man---an endless supply


no kidding
over 535 of them


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## OohRah Mama (Nov 18, 2008)

Joe The Plumber Secureourdream.com


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## Ravi (Nov 18, 2008)

OohRah Mama said:


> Joe The Plumber Secureourdream.com


This has become as funny as the Jeff Gannon incident...remember that champion of Republican morals that turned out to be a prostitute who advertised all over the web as a member of the nine inch club?

rotflmao


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## jillian (Nov 18, 2008)

Ravi said:


> This has become as funny as the Jeff Gannon incident...remember that champion of Republican morals that turned out to be a prostitute who advertised all over the web as a member of the nine inch club?
> 
> rotflmao



Pretty much. And the irony of Joe getting a book deal when Bush can't is truly sweet.


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## AllieBaba (Nov 18, 2008)

In that case, you should have some issues with Obama, who claims not to be liberal, but who walks, talks and befriends socialists....


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## OohRah Mama (Nov 18, 2008)

Like McCain and his buddy G. Gordon Liddy?


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