# The Main Problems With Electric Cars



## Viktor (Jan 3, 2022)

The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face
>

The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few.

It is obvious the EV technology has a long way to go to be a viable replacement for gasoline and diesel vehicles.


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## pknopp (Jan 3, 2022)

Don't buy one. Problem solved for you.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face
> >
> 
> The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few.
> ...


gas cars didnt replace the horse overnight,, my guess is we will end up with both,,


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## okfine (Jan 3, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face
> >
> 
> The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few.
> ...


Tesla S Plaid. One of our clients just bought one. He is not happy with it. It is parked and soon to be replaced. Read about the pros and cons. Instability. A sure reason to shitcan it.









						Tested: 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid Is Absurdly Quick but Also Has a Few Key Flaws
					

Tesla's monstrously quick 1020-hp Model S nabs multiple records, but is it truly great?




					www.caranddriver.com


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## flacaltenn (Jan 3, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face
> >
> 
> The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few.
> ...



Batteries are very fickle things. Hard to predict lifetime or failure mode because so much depends on how the charging and discharging is done. At what rates and to what depletion of the battery stack.  

ESPECIALLY because an EV "battery" may consist of up to 8000 very SMALL (AA size) batteries all cobbled together. And a failure of one or couple could lead to significant risk of damaging others in the stack. 

*It's the battery WASTE ITSELF that is the main concern for OUR HEALTH and the PLANET.  An EV fire is actually a HAZMAT call for a good reason. *


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face
> >
> 
> The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few.
> ...



A Gas Powered car has more of a chance of burning or bursting into flame.  A burning normal vehicle just isn't news worthy but an Electric is rare and gets the negative press.

The ONLY two things that are limiting EVs right now are range and charging time.  And those are on the cusp right now. Look for 2026.  And at that time, the industry will be forced to come up with a standard that all must comply with.  

That's right, 4 years max before the EV starts taking over.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> Batteries are very fickle things. Hard to predict lifetime or failure mode because so much depends on how the charging and discharging is done. At what rates and to what depletion of the battery stack.
> 
> ESPECIALLY because an EV "battery" may consist of up to 8000 very SMALL (AA size) batteries all cobbled together. And a failure of one or couple could lead to significant risk of damaging others in the stack.
> 
> *It's the battery WASTE ITSELF that is the main concern for OUR HEALTH and the PLANET.  An EV fire is actually a HAZMAT call for a good reason. *



AA?  The last time I checked mine, it had F cells and a lot of them.  I have also seen cells the size of large cell phones.  I prefer the large cells, myself as they are easily repaired and maintained.  

Right now, Teslas newest creation charges from 20% (the lowest one should allow a Lithium to go down to) to 80% in about 15 minutes using one of their charging stations.  It also has the energy density of about 5X what you are used to.  

Translation:  It has the range and the quick  charging to complete.  What it doesn't have is a production line to produce it.  I estimate that will come in 2024 and the vehicles using it will be out in force in 2026.


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## okfine (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> A Gas Powered car has more of a chance of burning or bursting into flame.  A burning normal vehicle just isn't news worthy but an Electric is rare and gets the negative press.
> 
> The ONLY two things that are limiting EVs right now are range and charging time.  And those are on the cusp right now. Look for 2026.  And at that time, the industry will be forced to come up with a standard that all must comply with.
> 
> That's right, 4 years max before the EV starts taking over.


If you look at many manufacturers, most of their near future lineup will be electric. Like 75%.


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## JohnDB (Jan 3, 2022)

There's a lot of fears with EVs...

Being on a long trip and having no where to plug in is a common fear as reported by owners.  

Then there's the hundred million things that can go wrong while on a trip and then not having a qualified mechanic to work on it available.  Or finding one but unable to get parts.  It's not like there are a bunch of parts houses carrying the 57 various brands of EV parts.  

It's an overly engineered disaster of a vehicle.


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## task0778 (Jan 3, 2022)

1.  Batteries don't function well when it gets cold, as in really cold.  What do you do then?

2.  Where does the energy come from to recharge an EV?

3.  What about AC in really hot climes?  How long will a battery last before it has to be recharged?

4.  How long do they last if they get a lot of use, like somebody uses the EV for a small business?  Over time the efficiency of an EV begins to decline.

5.  What do you do with the batteries when they're dead?  Are they toxic?


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## okfine (Jan 3, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> There's a lot of fears with EVs...
> 
> Being on a long trip and having no where to plug in is a common fear as reported by owners.
> 
> ...


When cars are built they are made in parts. Manufacturing consists of making more parts than actual cars made.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> There's a lot of fears with EVs...
> 
> Being on a long trip and having no where to plug in is a common fear as reported by owners.
> 
> ...



You mean like by gas car?  Or my old 1988 Ford F-250 which parts have ceased to be made?  How many old Ford Trucks are still on the road.  But there are some parts that just aren't offered anymore for them.  

Okay, let's take a look at the charging stations for Tesla.  On the average, in Colorado, they are no further than 150 miles apart.  These stations (we have 10 of them at Sams Club and a few other places around here) are financed by the State.  If the State requires something better than the Feds, the State is going to have to foot the bill.  Just because your state cannot afford it doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't do it.  I suggest you get better politicos that take care of the worth of the state better.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> You mean like by gas car?  Or my old 1988 Ford F-250 which parts have ceased to be made?  How many old Ford Trucks are still on the road.  But there are some parts that just aren't offered anymore for them.
> 
> Okay, let's take a look at the charging stations for Tesla.  On the average, in Colorado, they are no further than 150 miles apart.  These stations (we have 10 of them at Sams Club and a few other places around here) are financed by the State.  If the State requires something better than the Feds, the State is going to have to foot the bill.  Just because your state cannot afford it doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't do it.  I suggest you get better politicos that take care of the worth of the state better.


theres not a single part on an 68 ford that cant be had let alone an 88 and most of them are easier to get than a newer model car today,,


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## candycorn (Jan 3, 2022)

One of the things they need to address is passive charging.  Once that gets solved, you'll see EVs as the standard.  

What you'll see is something like this...  Lets say Tesla has a campus in Phoenix.  Instead of doing the conventional thing...driving your car into a parking spot and walking to the office, you pull up to the front door under the covered entry way.  There is no parking but you get out anyway.  Once you get out of your EV, the car navigates itself to a parking spot.  I don't know if any of you have experienced it but sometimes lots are full but nobody tells you...so you drive around for a while looking for a non-existent empty spot.  In the future, you won't have that problem.  As one lot fills up, the car is re-routed to an empty spot in another lot.  Once parked, the car docks with a recharging mechanism while you're working.  When you leave, you "call" the car up on your phone and it comes to you.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

task0778 said:


> 1.  Batteries don't function well when it gets cold, as in really cold.  What do you do then?



Battery packs have built in heaters.  And you left out that they don't operate real well under hot conditions but a decent EV has a cooling system for the battery as well.




task0778 said:


> 2.  Where does the energy come from to recharge an EV?



Around here, we use strictly Hydroelectric Power.  Wind and solar is also contributing.  Maybe we are just brighter bulbs than you are.





task0778 said:


> 3.  What about AC in really hot climes?  How long will a battery last before it has to be recharged?



Good question.  One that has no answer since you left out a host of material.  But in a Tesla, AC does cut down on your range but for normal day to day driving it doesn't matter one whit.




task0778 said:


> 4.  How long do they last if they get a lot of use, like somebody uses the EV for a small business?  Over time the efficiency of an EV begins to decline.



Do you mean like the EV Buses and Light Trucks which saves the companies billions each year?




task0778 said:


> 5.  What do you do with the batteries when they're dead?  Are they toxic?



In Europe, they have a very good recycling system for them.  The are 25 years ahead of the US in such things.  To answer your question, they need to be recycled.  And the US needs to get off it's dead ass.


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## Viktor (Jan 3, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> Batteries are very fickle things. Hard to predict lifetime or failure mode because so much depends on how the charging and discharging is done. At what rates and to what depletion of the battery stack.
> 
> ESPECIALLY because an EV "battery" may consist of up to 8000 very SMALL (AA size) batteries all cobbled together. And a failure of one or couple could lead to significant risk of damaging others in the stack.
> 
> *It's the battery WASTE ITSELF that is the main concern for OUR HEALTH and the PLANET.  An EV fire is actually a HAZMAT call for a good reason. *


The great part is that Joke Biden is pushing to spend millions to convert the whole Federal govt to electric cars in a few years.


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## petro (Jan 3, 2022)

No thanks.
I will stick with my 5.7 Jeep 4x4.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> theres not a single part on an 68 ford that cant be had let alone an 88 and most of them are easier to get than a newer model car today,,



I just sold that 88 ford because I ended up having to buy parts from the junk yard because they weren't being manufactured anymore.  The 88 to 91 Ford F series Pickups use fuel injection and can really only use FMC parts.   The problem is, the trucks are so dependable that the aftermarkets aren't worth making.  And the Chinese are producing complete junk.  The good news is, there are millions of parts in the Salvage Yards for them.


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## okfine (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> theres not a single part on an 68 ford that cant be had let alone an 88 and most of them are easier to get than a newer model car today,,


Parts houses just don't stock that inventory. Sure, you may find specialty/remanufactured but a parts house generally only stocks A & B moving items.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> I just sold that 88 ford because I ended up having to buy parts from the junk yard because they weren't being manufactured anymore.  The 88 to 91 Ford F series Pickups use fuel injection and can really only use FMC parts.   The problem is, the trucks are so dependable that the aftermarkets aren't worth making.  And the Chinese are producing complete junk.  The good news is, there are millions of parts in the Salvage Yards for them.


you would have to try to not find a part,, and that lie that only FMC parts work is just BS,,

theres an aftermarket part for everything and ford leads the pack,,


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

petro said:


> View attachment 583352
> No thanks.
> I will stick with my 5.7 Jeep 4x4.



I own both a Hemi Powered (Okay, I can't look to far down my nose at your) but I also have an electric.  The EV warms up faster since it isn't depending on the engine to warm up first.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

okfine said:


> Parts houses just don't stock that inventory. Sure, you may find specialty/remanufactured but a parts house generally only stocks A & B moving items.


you keep believing that,,

in the day of google everything is available,,


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> you would have to try to not find a part,, and that lie that only FMC parts work is just BS,,
> 
> theres an aftermarket part for everything and ford leads the pack,,



Sure.  I can purchase MDS systems from Germany at 4 times the cost of an original FMC part.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Sure.  I can purchase MDS systems from Germany at 4 times the cost of an original FMC part.


why would you go to germany?? just go to rock auto or one of the many other internet suppliers for it,,

and how is it 4 times the cost if the other isnt available??


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> you keep believing that,,
> 
> in the day of google everything is available,,



About 2 years ago, I went through the chinese parts.  Out of 10 parts to rebuild a Distributor or a Distributor replacement, all 10 failed.  1600 bucks for labor later and the problem gets fixed with a 50 buck FMC Junk Yard Distributor.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> About 2 years ago, I went through the chinese parts.  Out of 10 parts to rebuild a Distributor or a Distributor replacement, all 10 failed.  1600 bucks for labor later and the problem gets fixed with a 50 buck FMC Junk Yard Distributor.


sure you did,,


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## candycorn (Jan 3, 2022)

Internal combustion engines used for transportation and industry will be around for the foreseeable future.  Electric vehicles will continue to encroach on casual driving.  Its just a better product than conventional automobiles.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> why would you go to germany?? just go to rock auto or one of the many other internet suppliers for it,,
> 
> and how is it 4 times the cost if the other isnt available??



And buy what, something made in China?  No thanks.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Internal combustion engines used for transportation and industry will be around for the foreseeable future.  Electric vehicles will continue to encroach on casual driving.  Its just a better product than conventional automobiles.



Actually, Electric Busses and light delivery trucks are already here and growing steadily.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> And buy what, something made in China?  No thanks.


do you think some or a lot of the parts on modern cars arent made in china??

surely you arent that gullible??


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> do you think some or a lot of the parts on modern cars arent made in china??
> 
> surely you arent that gullible??



Like I said, 1600 bucks labor and it gets fixed by a junk yard part.  The only good news was that the dealers and parts houses took back their junk.  I sold the truck because I am not nearly as gullible as you are.


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## okfine (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> I own both a Hemi Powered (Okay, I can't look to far down my nose at your) but I also have an electric.  The EV warms up faster since it isn't depending on the engine to warm up first.


Amazing how astronauts live for months in space without alternatives and redundancies.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Like I said, 1600 bucks labor and it gets fixed by a junk yard part.  The only good news was that the dealers and parts houses took back their junk.  I sold the truck because I am not nearly as gullible as you are.


so you paid 1600 bucks to not fix your truck and you call me gullible,,,

hahahahahahahaahha


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## james bond (Jan 3, 2022)

I drive a 2018 Honda Clarity Touring Plug-in Hybrid.  With it I can drive single in the commuter lane and got a $7500 tax credit.  What's surprises most people is that it can seat five adults; It's like the Honda Accord.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

okfine said:


> Amazing how astronauts live for months in space without alternatives and redundancies.



Rule of thumb for Space, at least a redundancy of 2 on all systems.  The going thing right now for the space station is a 3X redundancy.  What's funny, both my Glorified Grocery Getter and my Electic have redundant systems.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> so you paid 1600 bucks to not fix your truck and you call me gullible,,,
> 
> hahahahahahahaahha



I used my favorite speed shop for the repairs.  What's sad is, I could have fixed it in 5 minutes had I been savvy enough on the system.  I am savvy enough now and my Dodge (which is much more complicated) runs like a champ and I don't need to depend on an outside mechanic.  The Dodge is EASIER to maintain.  

Tell me, Spanky, who do YOU use as your mechanic?


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## Wyatt earp (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> I own both a Hemi Powered (Okay, I can't look to far down my nose at your) but I also have an electric.  The EV warms up faster since it isn't depending on the engine to warm up first.


You drain the battery with the heater on stuck in traffic is his point


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

bear513 said:


> You drain the battery with the heater on stuck in traffic is his point



Get a bigger battery.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> I used my favorite speed shop for the repairs.  What's sad is, I could have fixed it in 5 minutes had I been savvy enough on the system.  I am savvy enough now and my Dodge (which is much more complicated) runs like a champ and I don't need to depend on an outside mechanic.  The Dodge is EASIER to maintain.
> 
> Tell me, Spanky, who do YOU use as your mechanic?


so you let them charge you 1600 bucks to not fix your truck,, thats on you not them,,

and considering I have rebuilt dozens of 80s-90s ford distributors I dont see what the problem could have been unless they tried to replace the module without replacing the stator with it,,

and most if not all were after market parts,,

dodge might be easier but for a mechanic ford is where the moneys at,,,


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## Wyatt earp (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Get a bigger battery.


That will make an commercial plane fly


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> so you let them charge you 1600 bucks to not fix your truck,, thats on you not them,,
> 
> and considering I have rebuilt dozens of 80s-90s ford distributors I dont see what the problem could have been unless they tried to replace the module without replacing the stator with it,,
> 
> ...



That tells me that I picked a winner and you picked a loser.  Now, tell me what do you think was the problem with the Ford?  I'll give you a hint, it was on the distributor and controlled the fuel injection.  That system was only used from later 1988 to 1994.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> That tells me that I picked a winner and you picked a loser.  Now, tell me what do you think was the problem with the Ford?  I'll give you a hint, it was on the distributor and controlled the fuel injection.  That system was only used from later 1988 to 1994.


your winner charged you 1600 bucks to not fix your truck,,


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## okfine (Jan 3, 2022)

bear513 said:


> You drain the battery with the heater on stuck in traffic is his point


Running out of petrol would really suck.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> your winner charged you 1600 bucks to not fix your truck,,



I paid him for his labor.  It wasn't his fault that your chinese parts were crap.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> I paid him for his labor.  It wasn't his fault that your chinese parts were crap.


they arent my chinese parts dumbass,,

so unless you supplied the parts its on the mechanic to back up his work not you,,

and if you went all the way to 1600 bucks youre a fucking idiot,,


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## Wyatt earp (Jan 3, 2022)

okfine said:


> Running out of petrol would really suck.


Siphon it from the car in front of you


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## Hellokitty (Jan 3, 2022)

okfine said:


> Running out of petrol would really suck.



Sure, but you can bring gas to an empty car easier then charge a dead EV battery.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> they arent my chinese parts dumbass,,
> 
> so unless you supplied the parts its on the mechanic to back up his work not you,,
> 
> and if you went all the way to 1600 bucks youre a fucking idiot,,



Good help is hard to find and the mechanic spent valued time on the project and deserves to be paid.  It's called Capitalism.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

bear513 said:


> Siphon it from the car in front of you



Yah, right.  And make sure you are armed in the process and they aren't.


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## progressive hunter (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Good help is hard to find and the mechanic spent valued time on the project and deserves to be paid.  It's called Capitalism.


not when they dont fix the car,, thats why you pay them,,

I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit and say I dont believe a word youre saying,,


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

Hellokitty said:


> Sure, but you can bring gas to an empty car easier then charge a dead EV battery.



Sure you can but your faulty reasoning means that either one could be dangerous.  BTW, they have emergency vehicles that can put a short charge on an EV.  Just enough to get it to the charging station.  Same goes for AAA delivering that 2 gallon of gas.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> not when they dont fix the car,, thats why you pay them,,
> 
> I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit and say I dont believe a word youre saying,,



You are trolling.  You have nothing I wish to hear anymore.  Have a nice life.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

bear513 said:


> You drain the battery with the heater on stuck in traffic is his point



I'll say it again, if that is the fear, get a bigger battery.


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## toobfreak (Jan 3, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The Main Problems With Electric Cars​



There is one other big problem that many seem to be ignoring.  COST.

Performance is always out there if you are willing to pay for it.  But for the foreseeable future for all intents and purposes, you are mostly looking at not only buying a NEW car, but a very expensive one at that.  All aside the limitations in range and the need for constant charging:

For the price of a "cheap" EV (~$45,000), I get a little shitcan with some serious limitations when for ONE-TENTH the cost, I can still buy a great used ICE car in wonderful condition and milage, large and just LOADED with features.  And I can buy gas everywhere.
To get a pretty nice EV in size, styling and features, I'm basically in the $90,000 - $140,000 range, the price of a pretty nice hand-built foreign sports car!


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## okfine (Jan 3, 2022)

Hellokitty said:


> Sure, but you can bring gas to an empty car easier then charge a dead EV battery.


If you run out of battery or fuel you will get cold. Especially stuck in the snow. There are new battery replacement stations and mobile units as well. Somehow someone is going to rescue or tow you.


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## okfine (Jan 3, 2022)

bear513 said:


> Siphon it from the car in front of you


Maybe it's an EV.


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## Hellokitty (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Sure you can but your faulty reasoning means that either one could be dangerous.  BTW, they have emergency vehicles that can put a short charge on an EV.  Just enough to get it to the charging station.  Same goes for AAA delivering that 2 gallon of gas.



Like someone already mentioned in an emergency you could get gas from another car. I'm not anti-EV.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

okfine said:


> If you run out of battery or fuel you will get cold. Especially stuck in the snow. There are new battery replacement stations and mobile units as well. Somehow someone is going to rescue or tow you.



Are you trying to put some reality into this discussion?  Shame on  you.


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## Vrenn (Jan 3, 2022)

Hellokitty said:


> Like someone already mentioned in an emergency you could get gas from another car. I'm not anti-EV.



You could but there is a good chance that the other person won't have that short hose and neither will you.  Plus, my Dodge will not allow the suction hose to be used.  You are going to be dialing for those 2 gallons to get to the nearest station.


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## toobfreak (Jan 3, 2022)

okfine said:


> Amazing how astronauts live for months in space without alternatives and redundancies.



They live in space for months because they are getting a direct infeed of electric solar energy directly from the Sun.


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## toobfreak (Jan 3, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> The EV warms up faster since it isn't depending on the engine to warm up first.



The EV might warm up faster but it is doing so by a direct drain off the batteries which serves no other purpose.  An ICE car might take a little longer, but it is producing heat from an entirely secondary source of warming that neither adds to nor takes from the engine nor the battery whether you use it or not.  Basically free energy.


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## toobfreak (Jan 3, 2022)

okfine said:


> If you run out of battery or fuel you will get cold.



With an EV, you have your ice-cold motors and batteries.
Out of gas, you still have a big iron block full of boiling hot 190° water.
If I'm in a blizzard stuck, I'll take the hot motor every time over the ice cold battery.


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## okfine (Jan 3, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> With an EV, you have your ice-cold motors and batteries.
> Out of gas, you still have a big iron block full of boiling hot 190° water.
> If I'm in a blizzard stuck, I'll take the hot motor every time over the ice cold battery.


Yur tho thmart.


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## okfine (Jan 3, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> There's a lot of fears with EVs...
> 
> Being on a long trip and having no where to plug in is a common fear as reported by owners.
> 
> ...


When it takes off there will be options. Like battery swap stations.









						Startup Ample Is Working on 10-Minute Battery Swapping for Electric Vehicles
					

Swapping depleted battery modules for new ones can fully charge an electric vehicle in 10 minutes, as long as the vehicle is built to use Ample's own batteries.




					www.caranddriver.com


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## P F Tinmore (Jan 4, 2022)

They need a battery exchange program with plug in batteries.

Go to a station, they pull out the dead battery and plug in a charged one. You are back on the road in 10 minutes.


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## okfine (Jan 4, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> The EV might warm up faster but it is doing so by a direct drain off the batteries which serves no other purpose.  An ICE car might take a little longer, but it is producing heat from an entirely secondary source of warming that neither adds to nor takes from the engine nor the battery whether you use it or not.  Basically free energy.


Damn that leaking heater core or frozen blower fan.


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## okfine (Jan 4, 2022)

P F Tinmore said:


> They need a battery exchange program with plug in batteries.
> 
> Go to a station, they pull out the dead battery and plug in a charged one. You are back on the road in 10 minutes.


How hard would it be to fabricate mobile swap station? The tow industry will be stupid not to be ready for this. They aren't.


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## flacaltenn (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> AA?  The last time I checked mine, it had F cells and a lot of them.  I have also seen cells the size of large cell phones.  I prefer the large cells, myself as they are easily repaired and maintained.
> 
> Right now, Teslas newest creation charges from 20% (the lowest one should allow a Lithium to go down to) to 80% in about 15 minutes using one of their charging stations.  It also has the energy density of about 5X what you are used to.
> 
> Translation:  It has the range and the quick  charging to complete.  What it doesn't have is a production line to produce it.  I estimate that will come in 2024 and the vehicles using it will be out in force in 2026.



the basic batteries are about 25% larger than a AA.  Might be called an F-Cell. There is a hierarchy of batteries, cells, and modules that is used. Here's is the battery design for a Tesla. There's about 7000 in the mid-range option Tesla S.







The way this is done makes recycling potentially a "revenue loser". And in combination with the ABSURD PLAN to "fix" the unreliable delivery scheduling of wind and solar -- that will add battery creation/disposal problem AS BIG or BIGGER than the estimate of EV use by 2030. 

*We will be NECK HIGH in very bad environmental muck due to the mining, manufacturing, disposal/recycling if we let morons sell us a BATTERY CENTRIC GRID trying to power BATTERY CENTRIC cars as any kind of "alternative energy infrastructure.*

I admire what Musk does. But he's an entrepreneur and his drive is to SELL IDEAS.  Like the quick charging options.  He had also proposed that these would be nationwide and "solar powered".  That promise is a lie. He'd need to have them in the Southwest with no weather to speak of and about 6 football size fields of solar panels and buildings the size of gymnasiums for power control and conditioning at each site.  And on days when the sun dont shine or it snows, he's sucking from a grid that would ALSO be "solar based".

*As far as the 15 minute charge which is the energy equivalent of mid-range battery option for the Model S is 90KWhr.  That's almost 4 DAYS of a modest single family use going thru the cable in 15 minutes !!  *

Neither me or my family would be within 30 yards of that happening. It's just pushing the edge a bit too much to make that a mundane regular exercise. ESPECIALLY with battery modules near end of life.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 4, 2022)

okfine said:


> Damn that leaking heater core or frozen blower fan.



Heater core repair:  $3.00 for a bottle of StopLeak.
$36.00 for a whole new heater core.​
Blower fan stuck: Not spinning - just warm up faster.
Spinning too much - throw cardboard over the rad.​New blower fan - $42.00.​
New battery for EV:  cheap end, refurbished - figure on about $1,300.00 PLUS the labor to install it.

Next?


----------



## okfine (Jan 4, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> Heater core repair:  $3.00 for a bottle of StopLeak.
> $36.00 for a whole new heater core.​
> Blower fan stuck: Not spinning - just warm up faster.
> Spinning too much - throw cardboard over the rad.​New blower fan - $42.00.​
> ...


Yep. Mr. Mechanic has the internet and an AutoZone membership.

And by the way, those temp fixes in a can are just that. Also, heater cores aren't like those Hot Pockets you love so much. Some labor is involved. Geez.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 4, 2022)

A friend of mine has a hybrid. Her gas mileage keeps going down, down, down as her battery deteriorates. The price of a new battery will blow your hat off.


----------



## okfine (Jan 4, 2022)

P F Tinmore said:


> A friend of mine has a hybrid. Her gas mileage keeps going down, down, down as her battery deteriorates. The price of a new battery will blow your hat off.


Is it a Prius?


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 4, 2022)

okfine said:


> Yep. Mr. Mechanic has the internet and an AutoZone membership.


Not sure what that is even supposed to mean so I'll just ignore it as unimportant.



okfine said:


> And by the way, those temp fixes in a can are just that.


Depends.  Might last a day, might last a couple years.  Meantime, it gets you going.  $3.00.



okfine said:


> Also, heater cores aren't like those Hot Pockets you love so much. Some labor is involved. Geez.


Yeah, if you are too lazy to do it yourself.  Definitely doable by the home mechanic, or if you are a wimp, pay the mechanic a couple hundred dollars.

Meantime, worst case scenario is still a zillion times cheaper than an EV battery overhaul and infinitely preferable to an EV battery fire in my garage.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 4, 2022)

P F Tinmore said:


> A friend of mine has a hybrid. Her gas mileage keeps going down, down, down as her battery deteriorates. The price of a new battery will blow your hat off.



Makes sense.  The gas engine is doing more and more of the work.


----------



## okfine (Jan 4, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> Not sure what that is even supposed to mean so I'll just ignore it as unimportant.
> 
> 
> Depends.  Might last a day, might last a couple years.  Meantime, it gets you going.  $3.00.
> ...


I have 30 years of professional auto repair experience. Why don't you teach me some more?


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> A Gas Powered car has more of a chance of burning or bursting into flame. A burning normal vehicle just isn't news worthy but an Electric is rare and gets the negative press.



Actually that much lithium in high density is a special kind of fireworks when lit. Ever see it?







That's just lithium ION portable device type batteries.  The lithium METAL batteries in EVs are even nastier.




Vrenn said:


> The ONLY two things that are limiting EVs right now are range and charging time. And those are on the cusp right now. Look for 2026. And at that time, the industry will be forced to come up with a standard that all must comply with.



Has the overwhelming issue of how we EXPAND the national grid GENERATING capacity by at least 35% by 2035 or so ever crossed your fanatical mind?  Where's this gonna come from?  It AINT coming from killing our current energy mix and ATTEMPTING to replace 135% of that with wind/solar for certain. Not without a doomsday load of MORE BATTERIES.

If we don't accept nuclear and go full in -- this WHOLE PLAN is fairy farts and painted up snails. And a dirtier planet fighting over UNSUSTAINABLE mining of rare chemicals and earths.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 4, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> Heater core repair: $3.00 for a bottle of StopLeak.
> $36.00 for a whole new heater core.


Stopleak will actually block up a heater core so it won't work anymore.

I had a Chrysler 300. I swear they sent the heater core down the assembly line and built the car around it. The core was cheap but it cost a few hundred bucks to put it in.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 4, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The great part is that Joke Biden is pushing to spend millions to convert the whole Federal govt to electric cars in a few years.



They tried to get the Post Office to be the guinea pig back in the early 2000s.  Would have killed them sooner. NOW at least the mental midgets in Congress will have a 50 yard line box seats of the issues right there in D.C. 

Most of the old codgers pushing this wont be around to see the results. And the young twerps will STILL be blaming the fossil fuel folks when their windmill and solar panel fantasy system starts to take lives by the 10s of thousands,


----------



## okfine (Jan 4, 2022)

P F Tinmore said:


> Stopleak will actually block up a heater core so it won't work anymore.
> 
> I had a Chrysler 300. I swear they sent the heater core down the assembly line and built the car around it. The core was cheap but it cost a few hundred bucks to put it in.


I remember the 1st Ford Taurus heater core change took me 12-13 hours and book time was similar.
Try changing a blower fan in let's see... a Cad Seville. If you didn't flat-rate that job, you lost your ass.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 4, 2022)

Here's my favorite lithium battery recycling center melt down.  NO ONE is gonna want to take the risks to dispose of this crap.  The PUBLIC isn't even aware that putting smaller lithium batteries in the recycling or even garbage is PROHIBITED and can cause injuries to personnel  and serious damage to the NORMAL waste disposal facilities. 


Welcome to Battery Armageddon people..


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 4, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> the basic batteries are about 25% larger than a AA.  Might be called an F-Cell. There is a hierarchy of batteries, cells, and modules that is used. Here's is the battery design for a Tesla. There's about 7000 in the mid-range option Tesla S.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, I don't completely disagree with what you are saying but in the last 5 years, the EV has moved ahead light speed.  And it's moving faster each year.  Right now, EVs have a way to go to become the4 priority vehicle.  As it stands now, the EV makes a fantastic 2nd vehicle.  But I do predict that starting in 2024, things are going to change drastically.  But the switch won't happen until about 2026.  But it's going to happen.


----------



## Mac-7 (Jan 4, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> gas cars didnt replace the horse overnight,,


only because teddy roosevelt choose not to shoot all the horses to force the public to walk or buy a car

libs today are not so patient


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Oh, I don't completely disagree with what you are saying but in the last 5 years, the EV has moved ahead light speed.  And it's moving faster each year.  Right now, EVs have a way to go to become the4 priority vehicle.  As it stands now, the EV makes a fantastic 2nd vehicle.  But I do predict that starting in 2024, things are going to change drastically.  But the switch won't happen until about 2026.  But it's going to happen.



Your dates are kinda funny. Because the 2024/26 cars are already mostly designed and NO HUGE ADVANCES in battery or charging tech have been made in about a decade. 

Same deal going on over at the "we'll power it all with wind/solar/batteries" sideshow. Not much has changed in a decade to FIX the fatal flaws of the energy system SUPPOSED to make EVehicles CLEAN. 

Right now -- people are virtue signaling in coal or gas fired EVs. 

You want an electric vehicle that SOLVES SOMETHING without CREATING BIGGER problems?   Buy a Hybrid. Or wait until fuel cell tech -- which IS advancing -- pushes us to a HYDROGEN energy system. 

You and Musk have a lot in common.  You're both competing to be a bigger salesman than P.T. Barnum.  Perception is not progress. Exaggerated claims by powerful people can be VERY dangerous.


----------



## Mac-7 (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> I own both a Hemi Powered (Okay, I can't look to far down my nose at your) but I also have an electric.  The EV warms up faster since it isn't depending on the engine to warm up first.


But in freezing weather the EV wont travel as far either


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 4, 2022)

*FYI,*
1980 Briggs & Stratton Hybrid - Jay Leno’s Garage​


----------



## there4eyeM (Jan 4, 2022)

The major problem with electric cars, and others as well, is that people want ones that are too big, heavy and over powered. An electric car similar to the dimensions and horsepower of the VW Beetle would be much more in line with reason.


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> You mean like by gas car?  Or my old 1988 Ford F-250 which parts have ceased to be made?  How many old Ford Trucks are still on the road.  But there are some parts that just aren't offered anymore for them.
> 
> Okay, let's take a look at the charging stations for Tesla.  On the average, in Colorado, they are no further than 150 miles apart.  These stations (we have 10 of them at Sams Club and a few other places around here) are financed by the State.  If the State requires something better than the Feds, the State is going to have to foot the bill.  Just because your state cannot afford it doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't do it.  I suggest you get better politicos that take care of the worth of the state better.


It still doesn't negate range fears. That's not going to fix it.  EVs are still such a minor percentage of cars sold or on the marketplace that parts aren't available readily or easily.  

And even old vehicles like an 88 model Ford truck...the mechanics can get used parts all day long from just about everywhere.


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 4, 2022)

candycorn said:


> One of the things they need to address is passive charging.  Once that gets solved, you'll see EVs as the standard.
> 
> What you'll see is something like this...  Lets say Tesla has a campus in Phoenix.  Instead of doing the conventional thing...driving your car into a parking spot and walking to the office, you pull up to the front door under the covered entry way.  There is no parking but you get out anyway.  Once you get out of your EV, the car navigates itself to a parking spot.  I don't know if any of you have experienced it but sometimes lots are full but nobody tells you...so you drive around for a while looking for a non-existent empty spot.  In the future, you won't have that problem.  As one lot fills up, the car is re-routed to an empty spot in another lot.  Once parked, the car docks with a recharging mechanism while you're working.  When you leave, you "call" the car up on your phone and it comes to you.


So identity theft is common....sounds like a great way to get your car stolen.  Or for the gizmo to have a massive meltdown and break down (kiss of engineering) then you can't get your car back while stuck at work.  And the overcharging of your batteries is going to damage them.  

Just no!  I don't want any part of that vision.


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 4, 2022)

okfine said:


> When it takes off there will be options. Like battery swap stations.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can see that being problematic too...
Like someone swaps their broken batteries for good ones. Or the swapper claims my batteries are bad and charges me replacement costs. Again more headaches I don't want.


----------



## candycorn (Jan 4, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> So identity theft is common....sounds like a great way to get your car stolen.  Or for the gizmo to have a massive meltdown and break down (kiss of engineering) then you can't get your car back while stuck at work.  And the overcharging of your batteries is going to damage them.
> 
> Just no!  I don't want any part of that vision.



Did you feel that way when remote control televisions came out--that someone outside your house would be able to change your channel?


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 4, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Did you feel that way when remote control televisions came out--that someone outside your house would be able to change your channel?


Nope... television is in my home.  And when they were Old School style remotes even CB radios could change the channel.  Or garage door openers. But there weren't many around at the time.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 4, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> Your dates are kinda funny. Because the 2024/26 cars are already mostly designed and NO HUGE ADVANCES in battery or charging tech have been made in about a decade.
> 
> Same deal going on over at the "we'll power it all with wind/solar/batteries" sideshow. Not much has changed in a decade to FIX the fatal flaws of the energy system SUPPOSED to make EVehicles CLEAN.
> 
> ...



Just go back to sleep.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 4, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> But in freezing weather the EV wont travel as far either



I'll say it again, want more range, get a bigger battery.


----------



## Mac-7 (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> I'll say it again, want more range, get a bigger battery.


I assume the owners already have the biggest battery that will fit


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 4, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> I assume the owners already have the biggest battery that will fit



No, take it from an old motorhead, there is ALWAYS an upgrade available if you are willing to pay for it.


----------



## progressive hunter (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> No, take it from an old motorhead, there is ALWAYS an upgrade available if you are willing to pay for it.


dude you couldnt fix a simple problem in your own car and your telling people youre a motorhead??

my ass youre a motorhead,,


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 4, 2022)

okfine said:


> I have 30 years of professional auto repair experience. Why don't you teach me some more?



I have 47 years of working on cars including building custom, souped up street rods, not to mention a masters in electronic engineering.  And I'm not talking about body work.  Why don't you go get screwed.


----------



## okfine (Jan 4, 2022)

toobfreak said:


> I have 47 years of working on cars including building custom, souped up street rods.  And I'm not talking about body work.  Why don't you go get screwed.


Oh squirmy. I don't give a damn.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 4, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> Actually that much lithium in high density is a special kind of fireworks when lit. Ever see it? That's just lithium ION portable device type batteries.  The lithium METAL batteries in EVs are even nastier.



Makes sense.  Like sodium, lithium is an alkali metal and highly reactive.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 4, 2022)

okfine said:


> Oh squirmy. I don't give a damn.



Yes, facts never matter to your type.  It was only important and relavent when you thought you had the upper hand.  Yet you want to be right about everything.  Now go stuff your head somewhere again.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 4, 2022)

P F Tinmore said:


> Stopleak will actually block up a heater core so it won't work anymore.



Yeah, not the best way of fixing a drippy heater core, but at least it stops the leak on your floor.  It's a Hail Mary play.  If you can get the air pockets out of the core, you stand a better chance of it just fixing the leak.  Either way, once a heater core goes, you are bound to be needing to replace it sooner or later.


----------



## Mac-7 (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> No, take it from an old motorhead, there is ALWAYS an upgrade available if you are willing to pay for it.


Yeah, right

just stick them in the trunk I suppose


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 4, 2022)

there4eyeM said:


> The major problem with electric cars, and others as well, is that people want ones that are too big, heavy and over powered. An electric car similar to the dimensions and horsepower of the VW Beetle would be much more in line with reason.



Which Beetle compartment do I shove 2 carseats, 1/4 ton of mulch or 2 bales of hay and my dog in? That's what I NEED to live in Hillbilly Hollywood..


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 4, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Yeah, right
> 
> just stick them in the trunk I suppose



Just because either you can't think of it or you are encapable of doing it, it must be wrong.  Actually, the trunk is exactly where the batteries go in a conversion.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 4, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> Which Beetle compartment do I shove 2 carseats, 1/4 ton of mulch or 2 bales of hay and my dog in? That's what I NEED to live in Hillbilly Hollywood..



Flacc, you just have to be willing to go that extra mile-- -- --


----------



## Mac-7 (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Just because either you can't think of it or you are encapable of doing it, it must be wrong.  Actually, the trunk is exactly where the batteries go in a conversion.


And what fo you do for trunk space?


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 4, 2022)

Lithium Batteries develop cracks in it's storage medium over it's lifespan...and as those cracks develop the battery's ability to store a charge is reduced.  Driving on bumpy roads has to affect it.  

So no matter how far the battery works when new, as it ages it's going to degrade.  And having range fears is a realistic fear.  Especially if traveling from Idaho to South Dakota for a Harley convention.  The charging stations going through Wyoming or Montana are going to be too few and far in between.  The exits for gasoline or diesel are already 80+ miles apart... cell phone service is also spotty at best.  

And an EV truck is going to work?  Yeah...right.


----------



## skews13 (Jan 4, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face
> >
> 
> The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few.
> ...



Every major car and truck manufacturer disagrees with you. 

Just to name a few.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 4, 2022)

skews13 said:


> Every major car and truck manufacturer disagrees with you.



Of course they do.  They are being pressured by the government into venturing into a whole new market full of pitfalls while abandoning their bread and butter, and they want you to BUY their product!  Not tell you it is flawed.

You don't get to find that out until you are committed to EVs.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 4, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> And what fo you do for trunk space?



Wear a really big fanny pack, what else, cupcake.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 4, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> Lithium Batteries develop cracks in it's storage medium over it's lifespan...and as those cracks develop the battery's ability to store a charge is reduced.  Driving on bumpy roads has to affect it.
> 
> So no matter how far the battery works when new, as it ages it's going to degrade.  And having range fears is a realistic fear.  Especially if traveling from Idaho to South Dakota for a Harley convention.  The charging stations going through Wyoming or Montana are going to be too few and far in between.  The exits for gasoline or diesel are already 80+ miles apart... cell phone service is also spotty at best.
> 
> And an EV truck is going to work?  Yeah...right.



I get about 7 years out of lithium PO packs.  If the construction is good then it may last more than 10 years with minor maint.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Actually, Electric Busses and light delivery trucks are already here and growing steadily.


From what I’ve been reading lately, everyone attempting to use electric busses are taking them out of service.  Battery problems, lack of range, frames cracking on some models, chargers that don’t work AND they cost twice as much as an ICE powered bus.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jan 4, 2022)

progressive hunter said:


> not when they dont fix the car,, thats why you pay them,,
> 
> I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit and say I dont believe a word youre saying,,


Mechanics I’ve gone to quote a price.  If they run under, it’s money in their pocket, if they run over, it’s money out of their pocket.  If they buy bad parts it’s on them, not me.  The only time I had a problem with mechanics charging to not fix a problem, it was on a RV and the warrantee was paying.  After three dealers couldn’t fix the problem, I took it to an independent mechanic and he found the primary fuel filter was full of dirt.  It cost me fifty bucks parts and labor for a permanent fix.


----------



## AZrailwhale (Jan 4, 2022)

okfine said:


> How hard would it be to fabricate mobile swap station? The tow industry will be stupid not to be ready for this. They aren't.


The cars have to be engineered for battery swaps and the manufacturers will have to agree on standard battery packs.  So far there is no evidence that any car builders are interested in commonality.


----------



## progressive hunter (Jan 4, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> Mechanics I’ve gone to quote a price.  If they run under, it’s money in their pocket, if they run over, it’s money out of their pocket.  If they buy bad parts it’s on them, not me.  The only time I had a problem with mechanics charging to not fix a problem, it was on a RV and the warrantee was paying.  After three dealers couldn’t fix the problem, I took it to an independent mechanic and he found the primary fuel filter was full of dirt.  It cost me fifty bucks parts and labor for a permanent fix.


RV's are the worst,, I hear if you have a problem its better to set it on fire and collect insurance and buy another one,,

and never buy new,, buy used after theyve found and sorted all the problems,,


----------



## Mac-7 (Jan 4, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Wear a really big fanny pack, what else, cupcake.


Thats stupid

No normal person is going to add extra batteries to the trunk of their electric car

and there are few people who are that abnormal


----------



## Old Rocks (Jan 5, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> Lithium Batteries develop cracks in it's storage medium over it's lifespan...and as those cracks develop the battery's ability to store a charge is reduced.  Driving on bumpy roads has to affect it.
> 
> So no matter how far the battery works when new, as it ages it's going to degrade.  And having range fears is a realistic fear.  Especially if traveling from Idaho to South Dakota for a Harley convention.  The charging stations going through Wyoming or Montana are going to be too few and far in between.  The exits for gasoline or diesel are already 80+ miles apart... cell phone service is also spotty at best.
> 
> And an EV truck is going to work?  Yeah...right.


And everything you posted is wrong, particulary this;











						Supercharger | Tesla
					

Supercharger keeps you charged when you’re away from home. With a reliable global network, you can go anywhere and conveniently fast charge. Simply plug in, charge and go.




					www.tesla.com
				




Range, power, towing ability in a pickup;

*Engine, Transmission, and Performance*

The Cybertruck is available with not just one, not just two, but three electric motors. While the single-motor truck has rear-wheel drive, the two- and three-motor models have all-wheel drive. Tesla claims it'll go from zero to 60 mph in 6.5 seconds and top out at 110 mph. The dual-motor Cybertruck will reportedly reach 60 mph in just 4.5 ticks and have a top speed of 120 mph. Those looking for the ultimate performance will appreciate the three-motor model, which Tesla says will essentially teleport from zero to 60 mph in 2.9 seconds (!) with a top speed of 130 mph. All Cybertrucks have an adjustable air suspension that can be raised or lowered on the fly and provides up to 16 inches of ground clearance. Add that to its 35-degree approach and 28-degree departure angles and the Tesla pickup could prove to be a formidable off-road machine.










						2023 Tesla Cybertruck What We Know So Far
					

The Tesla Cybertruck looks like it was dropped off by an alien race, but it has the capabilities to challenge all of the top-selling pickup trucks.




					www.caranddriver.com


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 5, 2022)

Old Rocks said:


> And everything you posted is wrong, particulary this;
> View attachment 583721
> 
> 
> ...


Still wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole...

They only make up 2% of sales.  
They can't pull a 12 hr shift.  

When they actually make fire trucks, Emergency Ambulances, and farm tractors all EV...I might look (but still not buy) at them.


----------



## james bond (Jan 5, 2022)

What's the technical name for the gas engine?  Internal COMBUSTION engine.  KABOOM!  You just died in an explosion or burned 50% of your body.  EVs are less likely to burn and explode than gas engines.

I figured may as well take advantage of the benefits of driving an EV/hybrid before others get it.  By then, it will be too late to enjoy the benefits one gets now for being an early adopter.  Some are beginning to charge for use after two hours and you have to get their card key that knows whose card to charge.


----------



## james bond (Jan 5, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> It still doesn't negate range fears. That's not going to fix it.  EVs are still such a minor percentage of cars sold or on the marketplace that parts aren't available readily or easily.
> 
> And even old vehicles like an 88 model Ford truck...the mechanics can get used parts all day long from just about everywhere.


Range is in the mind as you can stop and charge before running out.  I'll bet you'll be driving an EV as soon as the majority adopt it.  

What kind of oven/stove do you have?


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 5, 2022)

james bond said:


> Range is in the mind as you can stop and charge before running out.  I'll bet you'll be driving an EV as soon as the majority adopt it.
> 
> What kind of oven/stove do you have?


Currently in this apartment I have an electric...
But when I buy/build a house again I'll be using gas.  Gas is soooo much better for the majority of cooking I do.  Gosh I miss my gas stove.  I got one that did convection baking too...so awesome with the volume I could put out.


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 5, 2022)

james bond said:


> Range is in the mind as you can stop and charge before running out.  I'll bet you'll be driving an EV as soon as the majority adopt it.
> 
> What kind of oven/stove do you have?


Fears are reality for most people.  
Just ask any antivaxxer.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jan 5, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face
> >
> 
> The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few.
> ...


In the UK, the main issue is charging. The charge point infrastructure is below poor, and not getting better at a reasonable pace. A third of motorists can't charge from home.

Also, cost. They're just too expensive. I know the pro-EVers claim they will come down, but they haven't.

People go on about how the range of EV's is getting better, prices are gonna come down as they get popular, bla bla.. but what doesn't seem to sink in with them is, millions cannot charge from home, the physical layout and style of many homes in the UK does not support charging from home.


----------



## Flash (Jan 5, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face
> >
> 
> The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few.
> ...




Lithium-Ion battery power is piss poor technology for vehicles.

They are heavy, low power, short range, dangerous, expensive, short lived, unreliable, hard to charge and are an ecological disaster to produce and dispose of.


----------



## Flash (Jan 5, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> In the UK, the main issue is charging. The charge point infrastructure is below poor, and not getting better at a reasonable pace. A third of motorists can't charge from home.
> 
> Also, cost. They're just too expensive. I know the pro-EVers claim they will come down, but they haven't.
> 
> People go on about how the range of EV's is getting better, prices are gonna come down as they get popular, bla bla.. but what doesn't seem to sink in with them is, millions cannot charge from home, the physical layout and style of many homes in the UK does not support charging from home.


  Charging is much more of a problem than the Environmental Wackos would like for us to know.

There are many places in the US that you can't drive from one large city to another with an electric car because of no charging stations.  I saw a map recently.  Like you can't drive from Wichita KS to Denver CO with the range of an EV.

Of course the filthy ass Libtard's answer to this major problem is to use tax payer's money to build more charging stations.

Why the fuck should the government use the money that I earn to pay for your electric car charging station?  Why the hell don't you pay for it yourself if you want to drive one of the dumb things?  That oppressive shit is in Joe Potatohead's "infrastructure" bill.


----------



## james bond (Jan 5, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> Currently in this apartment I have an electric...
> But when I buy/build a house again I'll be using gas.  Gas is soooo much better for the majority of cooking I do.  Gosh I miss my gas stove.  I got one that did convection baking too...so awesome with the volume I could put out.


I think electric is better for most baking and making pizza.  I think stuff like meats, pasta, vegetable dishes, etc. is by preference.  Electric is definitely faster heating and better heat distribution.  For convection cooking, I'm not sure.  I suppose gas could win some of those.


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 5, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> In the UK, the main issue is charging. The charge point infrastructure is below poor, and not getting better at a reasonable pace. A third of motorists can't charge from home.
> 
> Also, cost. They're just too expensive. I know the pro-EVers claim they will come down, but they haven't.
> 
> People go on about how the range of EV's is getting better, prices are gonna come down as they get popular, bla bla.. but what doesn't seem to sink in with them is, millions cannot charge from home, the physical layout and style of many homes in the UK does not support charging from home.


This is true for roughly half of the American homes as well.  Only half live in single family homes...the rest live in apartments with no access to plugging in a car.


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 5, 2022)

james bond said:


> I think electric is better for most baking and making pizza.  I think stuff like meats, pasta, vegetable dishes, etc. is by preference.  Electric is definitely faster heating and better heat distribution.  For convection cooking, I'm not sure.  I suppose gas could win some of those.


As a recovered professional chef...
You are dead wrong.  

Most of the busiest bakeries use gas fired ovens.  In fact in NY most of the pizza taste of petroleum because it's cooked over coal...as in a coal fired oven.  (Absolutely delicious) 

Every commercial kitchen of any standing uses gas...not electric.


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 5, 2022)

Flash said:


> Charging is much more of a problem than the Environmental Wackos would like for us to know.
> 
> There are many places in the US that you can't drive from one large city to another with an electric car because of no charging stations.  I saw a map recently.  Like you can't drive from Wichita KS to Denver CO with the range of an EV.
> 
> ...


And there's been brown outs in California from electricity shortages....rolling blackouts from electricity shortages as well...so now with EVs putting further demand on the electricity they have, it's all supposed to work better?  I don't think so.


----------



## Flash (Jan 5, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> And there's been brown outs in California from electricity shortages....rolling blackouts from electricity shortages as well...so now with EVs putting further demand on the electricity they have, it's all supposed to work better?  I don't think so.




We have seen nutin yet.  Just wait until we transfer all the energy that is dispersed at gas stations to be carried over the power grid.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 5, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> Gas is soooo much better for the majority of cooking I do.  Gosh I miss my gas stove.



I remember my last electric range.  If the pot wasn't heavy enough to press the electric coil flat, heat transfer was very poor.

You could always dramatically improve the heating of the container by simply pressing down on it forcing a tighter bond to the coil.

ITMT, all of the rest of the heat was being lost, radiating downward and away.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 5, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> Thats stupid
> 
> No normal person is going to add extra batteries to the trunk of their electric car
> 
> and there are few people who are that abnormal



And exactly what is "Normal".  When they put you together, did they put in a brain from A.B. Normal?  In my trunk area, I have a battery and fuel.  If I needed more fuel or a bigger battery, it's not such a stretch to increase that capacity


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 5, 2022)

candycorn said:


> Internal combustion engines used for transportation and industry will be around for the foreseeable future.  Electric vehicles will continue to encroach on casual driving.  Its just a better product than conventional automobiles.



Then let's compromise and agree that HYBRIDS (which are electrically driven) are far better deals all around. And INCLUDE them as choices for Federal subsidies and count THEM in fleet mileage standards. 

A SUPERIOR Electric Vehicle which is not a rolling lifetime pollution hazard to dispose of or recycle would be Fuel Cell electrics running on Hydrogen. The only reason THEY are still too expensive is that YOUR side uses young political science and minority studies major to REDESIGN our energy system and refuses to INCLUDE them in all the govt picking of winners/losers.  You should STOP THAT.. It doesn't produce results that matter.


----------



## candycorn (Jan 5, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> Then let's compromise and agree that HYBRIDS (which are electrically driven) are far better deals all around. And INCLUDE them as choices for Federal subsidies and count THEM in fleet mileage standards.
> 
> A SUPERIOR Electric Vehicle which is not a rolling lifetime pollution hazard to dispose of or recycle would be Fuel Cell electrics running on Hydrogen. The only reason THEY are still too expensive is that YOUR side uses young political science and minority studies major to REDESIGN our energy system and refuses to INCLUDE them in all the govt picking of winners/losers.  You should STOP THAT.. It doesn't produce results that matter.



My side?


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 5, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> And exactly what is "Normal".  When they put you together, did they put in a brain from A.B. Normal?  In my trunk area, I have a battery and fuel.  If I needed more fuel or a bigger battery, it's not such a stretch to increase that capacity



Be fun to watch you TRY that hare-brained idea. Please make a video of the trial run for me..  LOL... 

Gee fuel AND batteries? = bigger mushroom cloud !!     Lead acid? 12V? Got the schematics to hook it up? Think there's some kind of plus/minus that you hook into?


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 5, 2022)

candycorn said:


> My side?



Sad that's all you focused on. Because it's so trivial compared to what you chose NOT to respond to -- I'll take it that you only want to brawl.

But yeah -- "YOUR SIDE" is destroying the energy infrastructure of this country in the WRONG ORDER of designing a new one.  Kinda like getting Afghan withdrawal bass-ackwards.  Except THIS debacle is gonna hurt/kill more Americans.

You want to EXPAND grid generation to CHARGE all these electrics that you're mandating but have NO FREAKING IDEA how you KILL fossil fuels FIRST and then INCREASE electricity production 30 to 35% ABOVE what we need today before early mandates of Evehicles.

That's insane. It figures tho and can be expected from a party that lacks any kind of connection to how things work.


----------



## Mac-7 (Jan 5, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> And exactly what is "Normal".  When they put you together, did they put in a brain from A.B. Normal?  In my trunk area, I have a battery and fuel.  If I needed more fuel or a bigger battery, it's not such a stretch to increase that capacity


If its your car you can do what you want

but most of us are not are mot going folliw you into stiffing their trunk with batteries


----------



## candycorn (Jan 5, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> Sad that's all you focused on. Because it's so trivial compared to what you chose NOT to respond to -- I'll take it that you only want to brawl.
> 
> But yeah -- "YOUR SIDE" is destroying the energy infrastructure of this country in the WRONG ORDER of designing a new one.  Kinda like getting Afghan withdrawal bass-ackwards.  Except THIS debacle is gonna hurt/kill more Americans.
> 
> ...



Ok...


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 5, 2022)

flacaltenn said:


> Be fun to watch you TRY that hare-brained idea. Please make a video of the trial run for me..  LOL...
> 
> Gee fuel AND batteries? = bigger mushroom cloud !!     Lead acid? 12V? Got the schematics to hook it up? Think there's some kind of plus/minus that you hook into?



Here it is and it's a daily driver.  I carry 2 gallons of gas under the rear entry floor and the battery is also in that area.  If I wanted, I could easily drop the two rear seats down and haul just about any amount of fuel within the weight limits which are considerable.  This car would actually make a great Gas to Electric conversion since it has so much room in the rear.  It's my "Grocery Getter, with an Attitude".  The problem is, when I bought it, I paid 4 grand for it.  It now books for just short of 8 grand.


BTW, Chrysler is thinking about reentroducing it sometime around 2026 and that would be an electric.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 5, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Here it is and it's a daily driver.  I carry 2 gallons of gas under the rear entry floor and the battery is also in that area.  If I wanted, I could easily drop the two rear seats down and haul just about any amount of fuel within the weight limits which are considerable.  This car would actually make a great Gas to Electric conversion since it has so much room in the rear.  It's my "Grocery Getter, with an Attitude".  The problem is, when I bought it, I paid 4 grand for it.  It now books for just short of 8 grand.
> 
> 
> BTW, Chrysler is thinking about reentroducing it sometime around 2026 and that would be an electric.








With the gasoline and battery back in the strike zone I do believe you have just re-invented the Ford Pinto!

Best you not buy a new car; instead buy more life insurance.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 5, 2022)

Mac-7 said:


> If its your car you can do what you want
> 
> but most of us are not are mot going folliw you into stiffing their trunk with batteries



Actually, I don't really have a conventional trunk.  The rear part of the floor comes up and has an ample storage space.  I already carry a sealed 2 gallon gas container back there.  But I have enough room back there for a 200AH70 without changing a thing.  Now to engineer a couple of motors on the rear wheels that run seperate from the Hemi.  The weight would still be less than 4600 (it's now just over 4100) and it currently (with my mods) runs a mid 13 sec quartermile.  Deade Stock is 14.3.  I think the addition of electrics could force it down into the high 12s (lookout hellcats).  If you haven't figured it out yet, I am a motorhead that has updated his portfolio.  Everything fits if  you have a Blow Torch.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 5, 2022)

HenryBHough said:


> With the gasoline and battery back in the strike zone I do believe you have just re-invented the Ford Pinto!
> 
> Best you not buy a new car; instead buy more life insurance.



Funny you should mention that.  The battery is in the same place on ALL Dodge Magnums, Challengers and Chargers plus the Chrysler 300C.  And has been since 2005 (late 2004).  I don't know what you drive but I can bet your fuel tank is in that area as well.  Except your junker isn't as well built back there.


----------



## JohnDB (Jan 6, 2022)

If they made an EV station wagon again...

Maybe it would work...just a kid a grocery hauler for the soccer moms.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jan 6, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> This is true for roughly half of the American homes as well.  Only half live in single family homes...the rest live in apartments with no access to plugging in a car.


The problem is, even if EV's are the best thing since white bread, if folks can't charge from home, they're gonna dislike them. It's like buying a kettle, and when you want a cup of tea, you have to drive off to an electrical socket and sit for hours.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 6, 2022)

JohnDB said:


> If they made an EV station wagon again...
> 
> Maybe it would work...just a kid a grocery hauler for the soccer moms.



The Magnum was a grocery getter that Dad could proudly drive.  It ain't no Vista Cruiser.  When it came out, it WAS the hot ride for affordable transportation.  From it, came the Challenger and Charger a year later.  That also meant it's doom since the hotrod ads went to those two.  It dropped from over 28K in sales for 2005 down to about 4000 in 2008 (it's last year).  But in 2024, looks like the "Challenger" gets full EV powers in a car resurrecting the moniker of "Barracuda" or Cuda.  For engineering sake, it takes very little to backdate the "Barracuda" to a sports wagon like the Magnum.


----------



## Old Rocks (Jan 7, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> The problem is, even if EV's are the best thing since white bread, if folks can't charge from home, they're gonna dislike them. It's like buying a kettle, and when you want a cup of tea, you have to drive off to an electrical socket and sit for hours.


And just why can't you charge from home?


----------



## Old Rocks (Jan 7, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> The Magnum was a grocery getter that Dad could proudly drive.  It ain't no Vista Cruiser.  When it came out, it WAS the hot ride for affordable transportation.  From it, came the Challenger and Charger a year later.  That also meant it's doom since the hotrod ads went to those two.  It dropped from over 28K in sales for 2005 down to about 4000 in 2008 (it's last year).  But in 2024, looks like the "Challenger" gets full EV powers in a car resurrecting the moniker of "Barracuda" or Cuda.  For engineering sake, it takes very little to backdate the "Barracuda" to a sports wagon like the Magnum.


But they all fade when compared to a Tesla S Plaid. Even a Y performance beats a Boss Mustang in real life.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 8, 2022)

Old Rocks said:


> And just why can't you charge from home?



Currently, with no way to get 220V to your parking space, you can't do a fast or hot charge if you live in an apartment.  In fact, most apartment buildings won't allow you to even have 110v plug on your parking space.  But that's called Infrastructure.  It can be attained.   For normal operating conditions, we don't need the high powered Charging stations.  Most decent cars already has the ability to charge from almost any 220v plugin.  Not as good as a tesla power station but better to take the 2 hours on the 220 plug instead of the 20 minutes to get that 80%.  The 220v will take about 4 hours for full charge.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 8, 2022)

Old Rocks said:


> But they all fade when compared to a Tesla S Plaid. Even a Y performance beats a Boss Mustang in real life.



Your Boss Mustang lost it in 2005 when the Magnum was introduced.  And, as it stands, the Challenger Redeye performs with it.    For the track, both are wild rides but they really can't use all that power on the street.   Never buy a car to drive normally that requires to you to attend a professional driving course just to go get groceries in.


----------



## Old Rocks (Jan 8, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Your Boss Mustang lost it in 2005 when the Magnum was introduced.  And, as it stands, the Challenger Redeye performs with it.    For the track, both are wild rides but they really can't use all that power on the street.   Never buy a car to drive normally that requires to you to attend a professional driving course just to go get groceries in.


Having built a couple of cars I owned, totally agree. They are not at all pleasant in the Safeway parking lot. However, that is the beauty of the Tesla. They are pussy cats for normal driving, but when you want to play, they are the top dogs.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 8, 2022)

Old Rocks said:


> Having built a couple of cars I owned, totally agree. They are not at all pleasant in the Safeway parking lot. However, that is the beauty of the Tesla. They are pussy cats for normal driving, but when you want to play, they are the top dogs.



If you are going to order a new Challenger or Charger Hellcat or Redeye, make sure you order the optional gear ration.  The problem with the stock unit is that it's designed to run over 200 mph.  The Demon (no longer available) had the lower gear ratio.  The 2.70 to the 3.07 means that you can use all that power on the sticky track.  On the street, both ahs way too much wheel spin.  The 2023 (or 24) Cuda EV will have over 1000 mp and have the same problem.  Take it from me, if you have the power for track and street, you use the track setting on the street.  What we have with Dodge and Tesla stepping up to the insanity are cars that have zero use on the street.  And bragging rights will sell cars.  It goes back to the old days of "What you Race on Sunday, you sell on Monday".  At some point, the auto manufacturers are going to either self regulate or be regulated.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jan 8, 2022)

Old Rocks said:


> And just why can't you charge from home?


Are you a thick **** on purpose? Upstairs apartment with cars parked on opposite side of the road, and sometimes 100 yards up the road.

Do you expect me lash a 125 yard extension cable outside the top window of my house, across the path and road to charge an EV??

You are one dense thick head.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Are you a thick **** on purpose? Upstairs apartment with cars parked on opposite side of the road, and sometimes 100 yards up the road.
> 
> Do you expect me lash a 125 yard extension cable outside the top window of my house, across the path and road to charge an EV??
> 
> You are one dense thick head.



I expect for the community to regulate so you don't have to.  Not update the old buildings but require the plugin and parking to support the building and occupants.  Yah, I know you will threaten to grab your guns and all that but this construction on new buildings is also used for solar.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 8, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> A Gas Powered car has more of a chance of burning or bursting into flame.  A burning normal vehicle just isn't news worthy but an Electric is rare and gets the negative press.
> 
> The ONLY two things that are limiting EVs right now are range and charging time.  And those are on the cusp right now. Look for 2026.  And at that time, the industry will be forced to come up with a standard that all must comply with.
> 
> *That's right, 4 years max before the EV starts taking over.*



Dream on!


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 8, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> I expect for the community to regulate so you don't have to.  Not update the old buildings but require the plugin and parking to support the building and occupants.  Yah, I know you will threaten to grab your guns and all that but this construction on new buildings is also used for solar.


More cost!  Gee, why does that always happen?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 8, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Actually, Electric Busses and light delivery trucks are already here and growing steadily.


Where?  An electric bus company was supposed to build a factory for final assembly here 3 years ago.  The building sits empty collecting dust.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 8, 2022)

Old Rocks said:


> They are pussy cats for normal driving, but when you want to play, they are the top dogs.


A Tesla top dog in the auto industry?    Try again.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> You are one dense thick head.



He was dropped head first as a baby onto his toy electric car.


----------



## Batcat (Jan 8, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face
> >
> 
> The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few.
> ...


I wonder how many electric cars will catch fire in garages and burn the owner’s house down. 

I wonder if the electric charging stations will have hookers hanging around to help men whose cars are charging to pass the time. 

I wonder if somebody will discover a way to short the battery out on an electric car and if that would result in an explosion. 

I wonder what happens if you drive an electric vehicle into a flooded street.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 8, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> More cost!  Gee, why does that always happen?



And how much cost did it cost for the unfristructure for Diesel and Gasoline?  How about E85?  At Elemndorf AFB, AK, on the base, the barracks parking lots have a plug for each spot.  At least it did in 1974 when I left.  Yes, it was for block heaters and rechargers but it was there so that the Airman could start their cars up in the dead of winter.  And yes, we all used them.  You claim to be Military yet you don't have any idea how the Military works.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 8, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Where?  An electric bus company was supposed to build a factory for final assembly here 3 years ago.  The building sits empty collecting dust.



Amazon for one.  They have bought over 115,000 of the light Truck EVs.  And this is common knowledge announced by Amazon.


----------



## toobfreak (Jan 8, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> And how much cost did it cost for the unfristructure for Diesel and Gasoline?


That infrastructure was built over a century with the demand behind it to back it up, justify and pay for it.  Not the other way around.



Vrenn said:


> At Elemndorf AFB, AK, on the base, the barracks parking lots have a plug for each spot.


PAID FOR by the taxpayers, where the government never met a fat budget or new toy they didn't like.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 8, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I wonder how many electric cars will catch fire in garages and burn the owner’s house down.
> 
> I wonder if the electric charging stations will have hookers hanging around to help men whose cars are charging to pass the time.
> 
> ...



You are more likely to have a gas fire in a garage.  But  either one can happen if you don't do the proper upkeep.

The Charging stations are paid for by a period of time.  And they can be expensive.  If you don't come for your car in a reasonable time that you paid for, it's gets towed.  Not much difference than any parking garage than any other vehicle just a bit more expensive.

Shoot, on my bad day, I could do that just by doing something real stupid assembling the battery.  Of course, any assembly should be done in a safe environment.  I did have some real bad burns from screwing around and not paying attention. But I have never had a battery flame.  Keep it within a certain temp, wire it correctly and pad it.  The beginner is more likely to electrocute themselves than cause a vehicle fire.  Mishandling 120 Volts at 10000 AH will kill.

I drive in the rain all the time.  Everything is sealed including the wheels.  Water did get into one pack and I had to replace the BMS system but that was from me ignoring a break in the container.  No fire.  In fact, no nothing.  Luckily it happened at home where l had a spare battery pack.


----------



## Old Rocks (Jan 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Are you a thick **** on purpose? Upstairs apartment with cars parked on opposite side of the road, and sometimes 100 yards up the road.
> 
> Do you expect me lash a 125 yard extension cable outside the top window of my house, across the path and road to charge an EV??
> 
> You are one dense thick head.


Naw, I am just an old millwright that made enough money to own my own home throughout most of my career. Most competent craftsmen do that.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 8, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> And how much cost did it cost for the unfristructure for Diesel and Gasoline?  How about E85?  At Elemndorf AFB, AK, on the base, the barracks parking lots have a plug for each spot.  At least it did in 1974 when I left.  Yes, it was for block heaters and rechargers but it was there so that the Airman could start their cars up in the dead of winter.  And yes, we all used them.  You claim to be Military yet you don't have any idea how the Military works.


Listen shit for brains!  I probably have more time in the military on the crapper than you did total!

Do you know the difference in amperage for a block heater compared to an EV charging station?

Of course you don't!  Why?  Because you are a moron!

At least I was smart enough to stay out of the Chair Force and being stationed in Alaska, which were probably your greatest accomplishments in life.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 8, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> Amazon for one.  They have bought over 115,000 of the light Truck EVs.  And this is common knowledge announced by Amazon.


Let me know when they finally hit the road, so I can point and laugh every time I see one stranded by the side of the road.  You keep talking about things yet to occur as though they are a done deal.  Did you miss my post about the electric bus company located near me that is close to 4 years behind schedule?

The state spent millions of hard-earned taxpayer dollars to build an interstate access for the industrial park where it is located.  Who uses it the most?  Amazon!  They use their big diesel guzzling tractor-trailer trucks in an almost continuous stream.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 8, 2022)

Captain Caveman said:


> Are you a thick **** on purpose? Upstairs apartment with cars parked on opposite side of the road, and sometimes 100 yards up the road.
> 
> Do you expect me lash a 125 yard extension cable outside the top window of my house, across the path and road to charge an EV??
> 
> You are one dense thick head.


Oh, that charging cable will have to be as thick as a garden hose.


----------



## GMCGeneral (Jan 8, 2022)

The inherent problem I see with electric vehicles, especially buses, is they WON'T do well in the snow!  Bad enough we just got hit with a foot and a half in the Downtown Metro Buffalo area, many of the CNG buses (Natural Gas) got stuck.  Imagine now with the lack of weight over the drive axle, electric buses getting stuck or worse, depleting their charge before the day is out.  Especially when the temp dips into the single digits.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 8, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Listen shit for brains!  I probably have more time in the military on the crapper than you did total!
> 
> Do you know the difference in amperage for a block heater compared to an EV charging station?
> 
> ...



Ooh, did I hit a nerve?  Works for me.

Considering I spent 5 years as an Aircraft Specialist, I am probably higher on the electric and electronic food change than you were.  As for the crapper, I never sweated on their time and never crapped on my time.  You were just the Latrine Queen that cleaned up after all those Sailors.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 8, 2022)

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Let me know when they finally hit the road, so I can point and laugh every time I see one stranded by the side of the road.  You keep talking about things yet to occur as though they are a done deal.  Did you miss my post about the electric bus company located near me that is close to 4 years behind schedule?
> 
> The state spent millions of hard-earned taxpayer dollars to build an interstate access for the industrial park where it is located.  Who uses it the most?  Amazon!  They use their big diesel guzzling tractor-trailer trucks in an almost continuous stream.



Okay, consider yourself informed.


----------



## Batcat (Jan 8, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> You are more likely to have a gas fire in a garage.  But  either one can happen if you don't do the proper upkeep.
> 
> The Charging stations are paid for by a period of time.  And they can be expensive.  If you don't come for your car in a reasonable time that you paid for, it's gets towed.  Not much difference than any parking garage than any other vehicle just a bit more expensive.
> 
> ...


I’m not talking about driving in rain. I am talking about driving down a flooded street so deep it is up to your hood. I lived in a Tampa neighborhood  where the street would flood that deep several times a year. Often cars would stall out in the street by my house. My house was flooded twice in 37 years while I lived there And I had water up to my door at least two dozen times. 

Of course it might be possible the electric car would continue to run under water.


----------



## Vrenn (Jan 9, 2022)

Batcat said:


> I’m not talking about driving in rain. I am talking about driving down a flooded street so deep it is up to your hood. I lived in a Tampa neighborhood  where the street would flood that deep several times a year. Often cars would stall out in the street by my house. My house was flooded twice in 37 years while I lived there And I had water up to my door at least two dozen times.
> 
> Of course it might be possible the electric car would continue to run under water.



I  have driven military vehicles with snorkels.  All electrics were isolated and operated under water.  Water on properly insulated electrics has almost zero affect.  I occassionaly see civilian vehicles with those snorkels.  You keep coming up with excuses why it won't work but fail to see the reasons that it can be made to work.


----------



## Captain Caveman (Jan 9, 2022)

Old Rocks said:


> Naw, I am just an old millwright that made enough money to own my own home throughout most of my career. Most competent craftsmen do that.


Yes, I have two. A house in England 12 miles short of the Scottish border and an apartment in Southern Scotland. The house is rented out as it brings more money in per month, and I stop in the apartment, which is fully paid for.

So at the apartment, an with one of motorists in the UK, I can't charge from home. I've said this twelve point two billion times on this forum.

The apartments on each side of the road has a garden area approx 7 foot wide each to the pavements. Each pavement is approx 4 foot wide. The road is two and half vehicles wide, so everyone parks on one side. The neighbour up stairs has three vehicles, we have two. Other apartments vary from none to two vehicles. So the parking vicinity to your home varies.

At the moment, it's not a problem, ten to fifteen minutes at the fuel station, I park where I want.

And I've owned a home throughout my "entire" career. Paid one off and the second one over three quarters paid with rental income clearing the rest.

I have a sneaky feeling I'll have to explain that to you all over again at some point because it's unlikely to sink in with you.


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## Wyatt earp (Jan 9, 2022)

Viktor said:


> The Main Problems That Electric Car Owners Face
> >
> 
> The main problems include risks of fire, and that EVs are not safe. There is the case of too much high-tech wizardry, charger compatibility, vehicle costs, and financing of charging stations, just to name a few.
> ...


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## Batcat (Jan 9, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> I  have driven military vehicles with snorkels.  All electrics were isolated and operated under water.  Water on properly insulated electrics has almost zero affect.  I occassionaly see civilian vehicles with those snorkels.  You keep coming up with excuses why it won't work but fail to see the reasons that it can be made to work.


I am not making excuses saying electric cars will not work. I just have questions. The biggest problem I see so far is stopping on a long trip to charge your vehicle. It would take a lot longer than just filling your gas tank. It would make sense for motels to have charging stations For their quests’ cars.


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## Rogue AI (Jan 9, 2022)

okfine said:


> If you look at many manufacturers, most of their near future lineup will be electric. Like 75%.


What are they getting for those claims?


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## 1stNickD (Jan 9, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> You mean like by gas car?  Or my old 1988 Ford F-250 which parts have ceased to be made?  How many old Ford Trucks are still on the road.  But there are some parts that just aren't offered anymore for them.
> 
> Okay, let's take a look at the charging stations for Tesla.  On the average, in Colorado, they are no further than 150 miles apart.  These stations (we have 10 of them at Sams Club and a few other places around here) are financed by the State.  If the State requires something better than the Feds, the State is going to have to foot the bill.  Just because your state cannot afford it doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't do it.  I suggest you get better politicos that take care of the worth of the state better.


There are after market auto suppliers that can fnd anything you need for an old car. period.


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## 1stNickD (Jan 9, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> A Gas Powered car has more of a chance of burning or bursting into flame.  A burning normal vehicle just isn't news worthy but an Electric is rare and gets the negative press.
> 
> The ONLY two things that are limiting EVs right now are range and charging time.  And those are on the cusp right now. Look for 2026.  And at that time, the industry will be forced to come up with a standard that all must comply with.
> 
> That's right, 4 years max before the EV starts taking over.


Yes charge and range. Also if I drive 250 miles and then have to wait for 7 other vehicles who are in line for their two hour charge, a trip from Chicago to St. louis is now a two full  day ordeal instead of four hours. Forget about a trip to the coast or to the mountains and forget about that family vacation. 

And when the teenager uses up all the charge in moms car and forgets to plug it in, now mom can't get to work, or to the store. Or she realizes she doesn't have enough charge when she is in the middle of an interstae highway 12 miles from the nearest exit and 45 miles from the nearest charging station...  A person can get a gallon of gas to an empty vehicle and they are immediately on their way.  Who is going to charge your battery on the side of the road?

We are fifteen years away from having the technology in place, at the earliest, but the mechanically and mentally challenged left want us to eliminate fossil fuels in the next 5 years.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Jan 11, 2022)

Vrenn said:


> You mean like by gas car?  Or my old 1988 Ford F-250 which parts have ceased to be made?  How many old Ford Trucks are still on the road.  But there are some parts that just aren't offered anymore for them.
> 
> Okay, let's take a look at the charging stations for Tesla.  On the average, in Colorado, they are no further than 150 miles apart.  These stations (we have 10 of them at Sams Club and a few other places around here) are financed by the State.  If the State requires something better than the Feds, the State is going to have to foot the bill.  Just because your state cannot afford it doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't do it.  I suggest you get better politicos that take care of the worth of the state better.


I have no problem finding parts for my 1992 F-150.


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## 52ndStreet (Jan 19, 2022)

Moreover, there are certain parts of the world ie, Africa , where there are no charging stations. Flex fuel vehicles are the best bet for the future. Ethanol Gasoline blends. I tired of all this brainwashing the world to buy Electric vehicles.  Many Americans consumers still prefer Gasoline powered vehicles. And many Electric vehicles do catch fire.


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## Vrenn (Jan 19, 2022)

52ndStreet said:


> Moreover, there are certain parts of the world ie, Africa , where there are no charging stations. Flex fuel vehicles are the best bet for the future. Ethanol Gasoline blends. I tired of all this brainwashing the world to buy Electric vehicles.  Many Americans consumers still prefer Gasoline powered vehicles. And many Electric vehicles do catch fire.



There parts of the OUtback all over the world that there is no infrastructure at all for any fuel including diesel, gas, electric.  I will say this, in your severe degree location in Africa, it's a lot easier and cheaper to put in a solar station to power your car with.  Otherwise, you are going to have to ship in petrol.  And when you run out of petrol, someone else will have to ship that 5 gallon of gas and if they had to drag i a couple of hundred miles, that's on damned expensive gas can.  An outback type village has almost zero need for a gallon of Petrol.   If you didn't bring it with you, you won't have it.


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## krichton (Jan 22, 2022)

Tesla has .01% car fires to their vehicles.   ICE vehicles have a .65% risk.   I'll take the one with the .01% fire risk.  You can ride in your horse and buggy.  There is 0.00% of fire with that mode of transportation.


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## 52ndStreet (Jan 22, 2022)

I told you people to stick with Gasoline Ethanol fuel blends vehicles. Don't let the media, and some of these car companies brainwash you into this Electric vehicle for the future bullcrap. Its all hogwash.!!


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## Calypso Jones (Mar 5, 2022)




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## krichton (Mar 10, 2022)

Electric cars, the next shiny thing for snowflake conservatives to be outraged by.


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## Vrenn (Mar 10, 2022)

krichton said:


> Electric cars, the next shiny thing for snowflake conservatives to be outraged by.



Sit back and enjoy it.  You ain't going to like the next 10 years.  You are whining today but in 5 years, you are going to be openly crrying.


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## Calypso Jones (Apr 1, 2022)




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## Captain Caveman (Apr 2, 2022)




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## Calypso Jones (Apr 18, 2022)




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## Vrenn (Apr 18, 2022)

Calypso Jones said:


> View attachment 632741



I want to know what you are smoking.  It's obviously stronger than what is available around here.


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