# Manning's a Bronco?...



## mal (Mar 19, 2012)

Interesting...

I don't have Link... Just insider info. 



peace...


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## rightwinger (Mar 19, 2012)

ESPN: Peyton Manning picks Denver Broncos


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## mal (Mar 19, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> ESPN: Peyton Manning picks Denver Broncos



My Scoop was Accurate. 



peace...


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## Rocko (Mar 19, 2012)

nice, wonder what they'll do with what his name


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## Rocko (Mar 19, 2012)

I bet there's many stupid bronco fans that are torn over this.


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## Wiseacre (Mar 19, 2012)

Looks like Tebowmania is over in Denver.   Apparently Elway and HC Fox didn't want him around, and will trade him somewhere.   We'll see if it comes back to bite 'em if Manning gets whacked and can't get back up.


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## Article 15 (Mar 19, 2012)

Good.  

Now keep Tebow the fuck away from New England.


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## bodecea (Mar 19, 2012)

Wiseacre said:


> Looks like Tebowmania is over in Denver.   Apparently Elway and HC Fox didn't want him around, and will trade him somewhere.   We'll see if it comes back to bite 'em if Manning gets whacked and can't get back up.



I expect no trade wheels will turn until Payton passes the physical.   I know Jacksonville would ADORE Tebow if he came there.


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## Rocko (Mar 19, 2012)

bodecea said:


> Wiseacre said:
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> > Looks like Tebowmania is over in Denver.   Apparently Elway and HC Fox didn't want him around, and will trade him somewhere.   We'll see if it comes back to bite 'em if Manning gets whacked and can't get back up.
> ...



Good point.....Not

of course he's going to pass his physical, dipshit.


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## HUGGY (Mar 19, 2012)

mal said:


> Interesting...
> 
> I don't have Link... Just insider info.
> 
> ...



Youz guyz are fucked!  Gawd will not take this lying down!!!!!!!!!!


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## Paulie (Mar 19, 2012)

I Tebowed that Manning would come to Philly.  Oh well.


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## mal (Mar 19, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> Good.
> 
> Now keep Tebow the fuck away from New England.



Nothing personal, but I Hope he goes there... 



peace...


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## Article 15 (Mar 19, 2012)

mal said:


> Nothing personal...


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## mal (Mar 19, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> mal said:
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I'll believe that when D-Town is hit with a Tsunami... 



peace...


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## masquerade (Mar 19, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> Good.
> 
> Now keep Tebow the fuck away from New England.



{{{ shudders }}}


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## HUGGY (Mar 19, 2012)

mal said:


> HUGGY said:
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Ya it's all fun an games until some Raider or Cheap blindsides your QB.  Manning has more hardware in his neck that 3CPO.  If he went through an MRI his head would be torn clean off.


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## mal (Mar 19, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> mal said:
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I'm a Raider fan, Brother... 



peace...


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## mal (Mar 19, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> mal said:
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> > Nothing personal...







peace...


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## HUGGY (Mar 19, 2012)

mal said:


> HUGGY said:
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Mal???  Is that you????

View attachment $untitled.bmp


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## mal (Mar 19, 2012)

HUGGY said:


> mal said:
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I am the original Darth Raider in D-Town... I had Season Tickets @ Mile High for a few years...

I don't really like the game @ the stadium...

Lost it's appeal years ago.



peace...


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## BluePhantom (Mar 19, 2012)

mal said:


> HUGGY said:
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It's all starting to make sense now, mal.   

Seriously, as has been said time and time again, it just depends on whether or not the man is healthy.  If he is, then Denver just became a far more dangerous team.  If not, well....they're fucked.  There's no deep revelations in that statement, but I have read a few places that Tebow will be traded or released (I would guess he will go to Miami now that Flynn has signed with Seattle) so it appears that Denver is going with Manning for better or worse.


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## Dr.House (Mar 19, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> Good.
> 
> Now keep Tebow the fuck away from New England.



Good point...

They already have "Bradying", they don't need "Tebowing"...


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## mal (Mar 19, 2012)

Dr.House said:


> Article 15 said:
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A15's just afraid that there will be Sexual Tension between Brady and Tebow. 



peace...


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## mudwhistle (Mar 19, 2012)

Tebow will be getting a call from Miami.....

Flor....I.....duh has been nice to Tim Tebow.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 19, 2012)

mal said:


> HUGGY said:
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Ohhhhhh..... A Faider fan. 

Commitment to Excrement.


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## iamwhatiseem (Mar 19, 2012)

....And Tebow is on his ass...

I would probably have to switch teams if Tebow came to Pittsburgh...not that there is a chance in hell of that happening.


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## rightwinger (Mar 19, 2012)

I think Denver wins AFC west with Manning

I don't see them beating New England, Baltimore or Houston


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## BluePhantom (Mar 19, 2012)

"_According to a radio report by ESPN's John Clayton over the weekend, if the Denver Broncos close the deal with quarterback Peyton Manning, the rumor circulating is that the Broncos may then trade quarterback Tim Tebow to the Patriots._"


Sorry Patriots fans.  


Could Tim Tebow wind up with the Patriots? - The Buzz - Boston.com sports news


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## Papageorgio (Mar 19, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> Good.
> 
> Now keep Tebow the fuck away from New England.



Tebow would fit well in the New England system.


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## iamwhatiseem (Mar 19, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> "_According to a radio report by ESPN's John Clayton over the weekend, if the Denver Broncos close the deal with quarterback Peyton Manning, the rumor circulating is that the Broncos may then trade quarterback Tim Tebow to the Patriots._"
> 
> 
> Sorry Patriots fans.
> ...



I can't in a 1000 years imagine NE hiring Tebow...unless they want to start losing.


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## rightwinger (Mar 19, 2012)

iamwhatiseem said:


> BluePhantom said:
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> > "_According to a radio report by ESPN's John Clayton over the weekend, if the Denver Broncos close the deal with quarterback Peyton Manning, the rumor circulating is that the Broncos may then trade quarterback Tim Tebow to the Patriots._"
> ...



They could put him in on some goal line situations and some short yardage wildcat stuff


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## samjones (Mar 19, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> I think Denver wins AFC west with Manning
> 
> I don't see them beating New England, Baltimore or Houston



The AFC West is weird.  It sucks as a division.  They haven't sent a team to the wild card round in 5 years.  The last SuperBowl team they had was 10 years ago and they've only won 3 Superbowls.

But they're awesome because there's hatred amongst them.  Kansas City and Denver and Oakland effin hate each other and it doesn't matter what their win/loss records are going into the game, it's always a tossup who's going to win.

Gotta love that.  Peyton is going to take a beating.

To your point - the team that I would pick to win the AFC West in 2012 is the same team that I would have picked to win the AFC in 2011, 10, 09, 08, 07, 06, and 05.  I would pick the team that has the best quarterback and the best personnel.  I don't know why they blow it in the playoffs every year, but they always seem to look like Superbowl contenders going into the season and it's alway a head-shaker when they lose to teams that are not as talented.  It still feels like next year is going to be Rivers year to me.


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## Papageorgio (Mar 19, 2012)

samjones said:


> rightwinger said:
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The AFC West is 6-8 in Super Bowl games, not sure where you come up with only three Super Bowl wins. Raiders alone have three rings, Denver two and KC has one.


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## Dot Com (Mar 19, 2012)

BluePhantom said:


> "_According to a radio report by ESPN's John Clayton over the weekend, if the Denver Broncos close the deal with quarterback Peyton Manning, the rumor circulating is that the Broncos may then trade quarterback Tim Tebow to the Patriots._"
> 
> Sorry Patriots fans.
> 
> Could Tim Tebow wind up with the Patriots? - The Buzz - Boston.com sports news





Papageorgio said:


> Article 15 said:
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I agree. Wonder what kgirl's take on this development is


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## rightwinger (Mar 19, 2012)

samjones said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > I think Denver wins AFC west with Manning
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You are right. AFC West has the old school AFL rivalries from the 60s. Oakland, KC, Denver and SD

Oakland has three SB, Denver two and KC one.......that's six

I'd like to think SD has the most talent but they took a big step back when they lost LT and Sproles


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## Warrior102 (Mar 19, 2012)

This is good.
I am a Colts fan
My oldest son - for whatever reason - has been a die-hard Broncos fan all of his life.
Peyton's still in the family.
All good


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## samjones (Mar 19, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> You are right. AFC West has the old school AFL rivalries from the 60s. Oakland, KC, Denver and SD
> 
> Oakland has three SB, Denver two and KC one.......that's six
> 
> I'd like to think SD has the most talent but they took a big step back when they lost LT and Sproles



I was about ready to type some nasty reply to Papageorgio when I went back and read my own post and saw the number "3".  It's not next to "6" so I guess I can't really claim a typo, but regardless, I know how many Superbowl's the division my beloved Chiefs come from have won and whatever number you see there, I meant to type "6".

I don't suppose it would help to change it now.

In any case, I view the AFC West as being far less hospitable than the AFC South.  I don't mean to imply that Peyton can't take a beating, but let's just say he'd better be ready to.... and in December that beating happens on a frozen freakin tundra.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 19, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> samjones said:
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LT was becoming a liability, Sproles was a big-time loss, but they didn't know how to use him.

Oakland has the most talent right now overall but they don't have a decent coach or front-office. SD's problems stem around a cheapskate owner. KC will never win a Super Bowl again because nobody in their right mind wants to play there. Denver has the best fan base and one of the best in the league. SD one of the worst. Too many Democrap shit-for-brains losers that would rather windsurf or play Over The Line than go to a football game.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 19, 2012)

mal said:


> Interesting...
> 
> I don't have Link... Just insider info.
> 
> ...



Peyton Manning must reward Broncos by winning - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

yep, he's a bronco.

I personally think he got Tebowed.

Why else would a top passing QB go to a run centric team.


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## rightwinger (Mar 19, 2012)

samjones said:


> rightwinger said:
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> > You are right. AFC West has the old school AFL rivalries from the 60s. Oakland, KC, Denver and SD
> ...



My teams NFC East.......12 SuperBowl championships

Most by far


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## L.K.Eder (Mar 19, 2012)

Paulie said:


> I Tebowed that Manning would come to Philly.  Oh well.



maybe you did it wrong, and tebow will come to philly.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 19, 2012)

Paulie said:


> I Tebowed that Manning would come to Philly.  Oh well.



Should have sacrificed a chicken to Lucifer.

hey

We are not the worlds most, ah, enthusiastic, fans for nuthin.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 19, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> mal said:
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Denver had a passing game but Kyle Orton couldn't win.....so they adapted to Tebow.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 19, 2012)

Two Thumbs said:


> Paulie said:
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> > I Tebowed that Manning would come to Philly.  Oh well.
> ...



We had people here in Nashville offering him 4X4s and free food for life if he would decide on the Titans......but he wanted to go to Denver and maybe show John Elway up.


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## bayoubill (Mar 19, 2012)

mal said:


> Manning's a Bronco?...



went from being a colt to being a bronco...?


guess he jes' simply likes being a horse...

albeit with uglier logo and uniforms...


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## L.K.Eder (Mar 19, 2012)

bayoubill said:


> mal said:
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he should have gone to filly.


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## bayoubill (Mar 19, 2012)

L.K.Eder said:


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he'll go to filly only as a visitor... at stud...


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## L.K.Eder (Mar 19, 2012)

bayoubill said:


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he should retire in indiana, with the gary geldings.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 19, 2012)

L.K.Eder said:


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I think he's gonna retire back in L.A. with his parents.


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## Papageorgio (Mar 19, 2012)

rightwinger said:


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Which team or is it the whole division?


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## elvis (Mar 19, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> Good.
> 
> Now keep Tebow the fuck away from New England.


Never thought I'd say this...

Thank God for Jay Cutler.


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## namvet (Mar 19, 2012)

finish your career as a Jackass

better work or Elways a FA


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## Rocko (Mar 19, 2012)

I wonder if any team will actually be interested in Tebow's services. Maybe the Rams now that they traded thier pick.


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## rightwinger (Mar 19, 2012)

Barry44sucks said:


> I wonder if any team will actually be interested in Tebow's services. Maybe the Rams now that they traded thier pick.



Jacksonville makes sense. Tebow is a local hero and would fill thousands of empty seats


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## Rocko (Mar 19, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Barry44sucks said:
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> > I wonder if any team will actually be interested in Tebow's services. Maybe the Rams now that they traded thier pick.
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Is he from there, or are you reffering to his colledge playing days?

True, I guess from a business standpoint he certainly has his upside.


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## saveliberty (Mar 19, 2012)

Big leap from Colts to Broncos.  I mean one's a horse and the others a ...


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## rightwinger (Mar 19, 2012)

Barry44sucks said:


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I think he was born in the Phillipines but played High School ball in Jacksonville


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## Missourian (Mar 19, 2012)

Barry44sucks said:


> I wonder if any team will actually be interested in Tebow's services. Maybe the Rams now that they traded thier pick.




PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let Tebow get picked up by the Rams!!!!


​


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## copsnrobbers (Mar 20, 2012)

Article 15 said:


> Good.
> 
> Now keep Tebow the fuck away from New England.



New England? Never happen... Belicheck  wouldn't tolerate the media.


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## copsnrobbers (Mar 20, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> I think Denver wins AFC west with Manning
> 
> I don't see them beating New England, Baltimore or Houston



New England will beat themselves. No need to worry.
Morons, They cost me a grand.


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## masquerade (Mar 20, 2012)

Dr.House said:


> Article 15 said:
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I'm sorry but what is "Bradying"?


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## copsnrobbers (Mar 20, 2012)

masquerade said:


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He either means: slang, sarcasm or his ability to pass. Like threading a needle or bradding hair.


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## rightwinger (Mar 20, 2012)

masquerade said:


> Dr.House said:
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## zzzz (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm sure Manning will like these type of games where its almost impossible to throw the ball. Over half of his entire pro career was played inside and a few in snow. Now he has to play mostly outside. All the AFC west teams are outside. 

He still should help them out but his signing does not guarantee anything yet. If you do not have people who can get open and catch the ball consistently then it does not matter who is throwing the ball. They definitely become the favorite but the game is won on the field.


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## rightwinger (Mar 20, 2012)

zzzz said:


> I'm sure Manning will like these type of games where its almost impossible to throw the ball. Over half of his entire pro career was played inside and a few in snow. Now he has to play mostly outside. All the AFC west teams are outside.
> 
> He still should help them out but his signing does not guarantee anything yet. If you do not have people who can get open and catch the ball consistently then it does not matter who is throwing the ball. They definitely become the favorite but the game is won on the field.



I'm sure Peyton is a big boy and knows about throwing outside in the winter. 14 years in the NFL will expose you to some outside games. SD and Oakland are not that bad in the winter


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## mal (Mar 20, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> zzzz said:
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> > I'm sure Manning will like these type of games where its almost impossible to throw the ball. Over half of his entire pro career was played inside and a few in snow. Now he has to play mostly outside. All the AFC west teams are outside.
> ...



He should pray he has protection... Oakland, KC and the Bolts Defenses will be looking to Retire him during 6 games next year. 



peace...


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## rightwinger (Mar 20, 2012)

mal said:


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You are not talking bounties are you?


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## mal (Mar 20, 2012)

rightwinger said:


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Bounties?... We don't need no Stinkin' Bounties... In the West, it's done for Entertainment. 



peace...


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## masquerade (Mar 20, 2012)

rightwinger said:


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Too bad there isn't a similar photo of Tebow circling round the internet.


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## mal (Mar 20, 2012)

masquerade said:


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That's because Tebow ain't Bitchmade like Tommy... 



peace...


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## rightwinger (Mar 20, 2012)

masquerade said:


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## masquerade (Mar 20, 2012)

rightwinger said:


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One is praying.
One is dealing with disappointment.

Of course that's my take on it.  I wasn't inside Brady's head so I can't say fer sure what he was thinking.


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## masquerade (Mar 20, 2012)

mal said:


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Piss off Mal.


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## Nosmo King (Mar 20, 2012)

rightwinger said:


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Wow!  That _division_ has twice as many Super Bowl Championships as my beloved Pittsburgh Steelers!


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## rightwinger (Mar 20, 2012)

masquerade said:


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Brady was praying that he does not have to face the Giants again


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## rightwinger (Mar 20, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


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The Steelers have won six Superbowls, but in the 80 years they have been in the NFL, they have won six championships

Packers have 13
Bears have 9
Giants have 8

Steelers have the most Championships since 1966. But if you go back their entire NFL existence......not as good


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## mal (Mar 20, 2012)

masquerade said:


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Why are Cheatriots Fans so Fucking Thin-Skinned... 



peace...


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## Big Fitz (Mar 20, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


> Tebow will be getting a call from Miami.....
> 
> Flor....I.....duh has been nice to Tim Tebow.


Or Jacksonville.  Blaine Gabbart just ain't getting it done, and Chad Henne?  Meh.

But I just heard Miami got David Garrard.  He's actually quite a good QB.  He just had busts at reciever to drag him down.


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## Nosmo King (Mar 20, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Nosmo King said:
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Ah, but we're talking Super Bowls now, aren't we?

My beloved Steelers have as many as the AFC West combined.  And six times as many as the Detroit Lions or Cleveland Browns.


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## samjones (Mar 20, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Giants have 8



In 2000, the Giants had the league's best team.  In '86, '90, '07 and last year, they didn't.

Each of their Superbowls was just a weird coincidence of them getting hot and the good teams in the league struggling with injuries and having bad games.

Last year they were lucky to make the playoffs.  In '07 Eli was lucky he won a Superbowl or else he would have lost his job.  In '90 Hoss stepped up to the plate.  In '86, they won the Superbowl, but nobody would have been calling the Gints the NFC's best team of that era.


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## samjones (Mar 20, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> My beloved Steelers have as many as the AFC West combined.  And six times as many as the Detroit Lions or Cleveland Browns.



Math....is..... hard.


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## Big Fitz (Mar 20, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> rightwinger said:
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Look at them goalposts move!  Superbowl by any other name is the NFL Championship.

So the NFC North has 26 NFL Championships.  Huh.  Okay.  Yes the Lions have 5 all before 1957.


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## Nosmo King (Mar 20, 2012)

Count 'em.  Anybody else got six?


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## KissMy (Mar 20, 2012)

This was a stupid move. Denver's front line is weak & Peyton will take an enormous pounding. His neck injury will become a huge liability. Tebow is one tough QB & took an enormous number of sacks behind that front line. A Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady can't take that abuse. Denver will not make the playoffs without a QB that can take getting sacked.


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## rightwinger (Mar 20, 2012)

samjones said:


> rightwinger said:
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86 Giants were 14-2 and the best Giant team ever. 
90 they were 13-3 with a great Defense. They started 10-0 and then Simms got injured. Still won
Not the greatest team of that era, but they gave the Niners some awesome games 


2000 they were 12-4, not the NFCs best but a decent team. Went up against an awesome Ravens Defense and got pounded

07 and 11 teams were almost identical. At the end of the year they got hot and beat some very good teams to win Superbowls. In 07 they beat a 16-0 team and in 11 they beat a 15-1 team, not too shabby


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## KissMy (Mar 20, 2012)

Barry44sucks said:


> I wonder if any team will actually be interested in Tebow's services. Maybe the Rams now that they traded thier pick.



Tebow would be a perfect fit for the Rams. They have a poor front line that gets all their QB rattled. Tebow can take the pounding & would be an asset for them. Plus ST. Louis is a faith based city & would love his religious style.


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## Big Fitz (Mar 20, 2012)

Nosmo King said:


> Count 'em.  Anybody else got six?


Talk to me when you get to 13, including 2 'threepeats' and need a "Hall of Fame" to cover just your team.

http://www.packers.com/lambeau-field/hall-of-fame/visit.html


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## mal (Mar 20, 2012)

Bronco Fans are gettin' all cocky now... 

They already won at least 2, maybe even 3 Super Bowls in Row...

You all might as well not even try for the next 2 or 3 years... 



peace...


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## elvis (Mar 20, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> I think Denver wins AFC west with Manning
> 
> I don't see them beating New England, Baltimore or Houston



Games would be much more competitive.


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## mal (Mar 20, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> I think Denver wins AFC west with Manning
> 
> I don't see them beating New England, Baltimore or Houston



I Think Denver won the AFC west without Manning, but maybe I'm wrong?... 



peace...


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## masquerade (Mar 20, 2012)

mal said:


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Why are attention whores so fucking obnoxious?
Get some new material, would ya.


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## elvis (Mar 20, 2012)

mal said:


> rightwinger said:
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And got crushed by new England. That game will be much more competitive.


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## Nosmo King (Mar 20, 2012)

masquerade said:


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The curse of rooting for an elite team.  As a charter member of Franco's Italian Army, the Steel Curtain, Steeler Nation, I empathize.


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## mal (Mar 20, 2012)

elvis said:


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Maybe...

Manning had a great team around him... There isn't a great team in Denver.

Maybe there will be, but he has to stay Healthy on top of that.



peace...


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## mal (Mar 20, 2012)

masquerade said:


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I forgot to add _Insecure_. 

Lighten the FUCK up Francis. 



peace...


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## mudwhistle (Mar 20, 2012)

mal said:


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Indy was getting old. Denver is up and coming. They just didn't have a decent QB.


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## mal (Mar 20, 2012)

mudwhistle said:


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We'll see...



peace...


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 20, 2012)

bodecea said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
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> > Looks like Tebowmania is over in Denver.   Apparently Elway and HC Fox didn't want him around, and will trade him somewhere.   We'll see if it comes back to bite 'em if Manning gets whacked and can't get back up.
> ...



Do you think they would have hours of negotiations with $475 an hour lawyers and a lavish press announcement if he had NOT ALREADY PASSED a physical?

Love ya dear but you have no clue how this process works. I do. 
He passed the physical 2 weeks ago.

But you are spot on it with JAX. They need fannies in the seats and he would do that.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 20, 2012)

mal said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > mal said:
> ...



"Manning had a great team around him"
They were the worst team in football without him.
Denver has one of the best defenses in the league and an awesome OL.

Please, please stick to your day job. You have NO clue about this game.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 20, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Good.
> ...



He would short term as wildcat situation player but not as the heir to TB.
Ryan Mallett has that job.
Sorry sports fans, The DAWG knows. 
Mallett was a steal in the draft last year, Pats know it and he looked great in preseason.


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## Nova78 (Mar 20, 2012)

96 million dollar -wtf no one on earth is worth that


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## Trajan (Mar 20, 2012)

some early rumors had him thinking of the Niners while Smith was out shopping. My wife was ecstatic but, Smith really showed me something last year and, I am not sure Peyton has much left in the tank, I never believed like george allen used to say the future is now, so I think smith should stay, but hes not a deep bal man and Moss, I don't know why they picked him up...but hopefully he'll keep his mouth shut.


I don't remember the broncos having a team that was a QB away from greatness, so I don't know what they are thinking.


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## Trajan (Mar 20, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> > elvis said:
> ...



uhm...what?

PTS
24.4
(24th)
YDS
357.8
(20th)
PASS YDS
231.5
(18th)
RUSH YDS
126.3
(22nd)


http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?team=DEN


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 20, 2012)

Manning threw the tree routes both sides of the field to perfection in all of his workouts.
NO ONE would sign him to a 1 year contract if he did not have it still.
They said the same thing when Favre went to the Vikings in that deal. He threw 33 TDs for 4200 yards.
These folks know what they are doing. 
However, I agree that the length of the contract is 2 years too long, top heavy with an out after 3 for the Broncos but that is the nature of the game now. I was surprised as I heard that it would be 3 years for $50 million with a 4th year option at 20 million with a buy out of 8 million. 
I like the Tebow kid but this is no surprise. He is a mediocre QB at best. He will make a decent backup for a few years and be out of the league.


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## Big Fitz (Mar 20, 2012)

Nova78 said:


> 96 million dollar -wtf no one on earth is worth that


I am.  At least in my own mind and if someone wants to pay me that.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 20, 2012)

Trajan said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > mal said:
> ...



AFC West is the modern day black and blue division. Denver kicked for field position more than any other team in the league last year. You always give up yards that way as you are going for field position. Take away the blow outs as the scheme was changed last year and you have an excellent nucleus of a defense.
That is why Manning came there and also the OL. NO QB goes to a team with a weak OL especially after an injury.
Fox was hired to build THE DEFENSE.

For those that know a little football here every team the Broncos played stacked 7 and 8 guys in the box on almost every play. Hence the rushing stats.
Hint: the good QBs NEVER see a stacked box with 7 and 8 defenders stacking.
GUESS WHY.
But they did lose Dennis Allen, the mastermind mad scientist of that D behind Fox who is in Oakland now. And Denver has a tough schedule next year. And the Saints are trying to sign one of the key pieces of their D, Broderick Bunkley. But Bx2 wants a boat load of cash and I see him possibly staying with Denver. LB Joe Mays resigned with Denver. 
Denver 9th in league in sacks and 7th in holding offenses on 3rd down conversions. IOW, they get their D off the field. 
Denver has a good OL and good young defenders but they do have some age on that side of the ball. Von Miller was a great pick for them last year. 
Tough division next year.


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## samjones (Mar 26, 2012)

Maybe I'm beating a dead horse/bronco/colt here, but it must be crystal clear to everyone that Manning will not take the Broncos to a Superbowl.   We've seen this movie before.   We know how it ends.  Manning has about 2 years to do something great and it just isn't going to be enough time to make the team his own.

There are only 2 great quarterbacks who ever had a second act and one of them was just because of dumb luck.

The other, John Elway, had a second career but with the same team.

This is the end for Peyton and in the final analysis it was a disappointing career.  He won the only  illegitimate Superbowl ever.  He didn't have a perfect season because he didn't try.  Peyton, in many ways, underachieved and for the rest of his life he's going to have to sit across the table at Thanksgiving and look at a guy who overachieved and had the better career while his dad looks on....


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## Montrovant (Mar 26, 2012)

Disappointing career?  Illegitimate Super Bowl?  Manning didn't try and that's why he didn't have a perfect season?

Some bold foolishness there.


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## samjones (Mar 26, 2012)

Montrovant said:


> Disappointing career?  Illegitimate Super Bowl?  Manning didn't try and that's why he didn't have a perfect season?
> 
> Some bold foolishness there.



1 Superbowl.  Only 1.  And if it hadn't rained I'm not so sure he would have had that one.  14-0 and he lets his coach take him out in a close game in the 3rd quarter.  That's not the way a champion thinks.

Manning will be considered in the same class as Marino or Tarkenton.  Great?  Yes.  The Greatest?

His name won't even come up.


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## Montrovant (Mar 26, 2012)

samjones said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > Disappointing career?  Illegitimate Super Bowl?  Manning didn't try and that's why he didn't have a perfect season?
> ...



Super bowl wins aren't everything.  The coach is the one who decides if a player plays, that player doesn't get to choose to go in if the coach doesn't want him to.

Marino's name often comes up in discussion of who is the greatest.  Manning's will as well.  Eli's career (barring a lot more success in coming years) will almost never be considered as good as Peyton's, despite another SB win.

And if championships are the only measure of who is the greatest, then Otto Graham is far and away the best to ever play.  No one else comes close.

Also, you didn't explain why his Super Bowl victory is 'illegitimate'.  Are you saying if it rains during the SB, it doesn't count?


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 26, 2012)

samjones said:


> Maybe I'm beating a dead horse/bronco/colt here, but it must be crystal clear to everyone that Manning will not take the Broncos to a Superbowl.   We've seen this movie before.   We know how it ends.  Manning has about 2 years to do something great and it just isn't going to be enough time to make the team his own.
> 
> There are only 2 great quarterbacks who ever had a second act and one of them was just because of dumb luck.
> 
> ...



A disappointing career?
Weak running game and suspect defense and his stats are:
54K yards, 399 TD passes, 46 game winning drives and you call that a "disappointing career"
4th in career wins, 2 time NFL MVP, 3rd all time passing leader, # TWO ALL TIME GAME WINNING DRIVES, #3 in passes completed, #2 IN PASSING YARDS PER GAME, TIED FOR #1 IN COMEBACKS IN NFL HISTORY.
And you state he had a "disappointing career".

You have never, ever crossed the lines and played a damn down. You have NO clue.
Manning is one of the top 3 QBs of all time.
For those of us in the know that have crossed the lines.


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## samjones (Mar 26, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Manning is one of the top 3 QBs of all time.



I wouldn't consider him to be one of the top 3 QBs of his own time.

After all, there are 3 active Superbowl-contending starting QBs in the league right now who all have more superbowl victories than P. Manning does.  All of them are younger than him.  1 of them is defintiely a "greater" quarterback than P. Manning and the another I would say is every bit as good.  The only one of the 3 who isn't "as great" is his own brother, the overachiever.

There are another couple of QBs who each have one ring.  I wouldn't be surprised to see either of them get a second next year, would you?

I also wouldn't be suprised to see some up-and-comer like Flacco or Stafford nab a ring next year.

I know that nobody cares about Superbowl victories and people don't even consider them when they're gauging how great a QBs career was, but I do believe that you'll see Peyton finish with a 1-1 Superbowl record.  And he's lucky to have that, because I think Chicago had a better team that year.  Not the we'll ever really know since it was raining sheets.


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## rightwinger (Mar 26, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> samjones said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I'm beating a dead horse/bronco/colt here, but it must be crystal clear to everyone that Manning will not take the Broncos to a Superbowl.   We've seen this movie before.   We know how it ends.  Manning has about 2 years to do something great and it just isn't going to be enough time to make the team his own.
> ...



I would go along with Peyton being an underachiever. Year in, year out the Colts had one of the best teams in the NFL. They routinely ran off 13,14 and even 15 win seasons. Yet, in 14 seasons, Peyton managed one championship

Peyton still lacks that signature game......the one victory where he carried his   to victory in a big game

Brady has it, Roethlesberger has it.......Eli has two


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## Big Fitz (Mar 26, 2012)

samjones said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > Disappointing career?  Illegitimate Super Bowl?  Manning didn't try and that's why he didn't have a perfect season?
> ...


Manning is one of the best who ever lived for those who quarterbacked a modern system.  To say championships equal skill is full of it.  

For example, Tony Romo is statistically better than Aikman.  (for the record I don't like either much) 

So before we lump Manning in with Bernie Kosar, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, Dan Fouts and Archie Manning as skilled but not really that great, we need to remember how awesome those quarterbacks were WITHOUT a championship win.  Would you rate Terry Bradshaw, Doug Williams, Joe Namath, Phil Simms, Joe Theismann or Trent Dilfer over them because they have a Superbowl ring or three?

So the question is... what DOES make a great quarterback?  Stats?  Championships?  PR?


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## Papageorgio (Mar 26, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > samjones said:
> ...



So his Super Bowl win wasn't a big game? How do you explain the collapse of the Colts with Manning missing?


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## samjones (Mar 27, 2012)

Big Fitz said:


> samjones said:
> 
> 
> > Montrovant said:
> ...



Terry Bradshaw over Bernie Kosar?  Yes.  Phil Samms over Archie Manning?  Yes.  Joe Namath over Jim Kelly?  Yes.  

All of them over Warren Moon?  Honestly?  Yes... but then again, I remember watching Warren Moon play.  

I'll help you with this.

Good Stats are important.  Couple them with the ability to win the big game consistently especially by making clutch plays and you have yourself a great quarterback.

P. Manning is more of a "good" quarterback.  He practiced, he's competent.  Warren Moon-like he'll always have a statistically fine season.  When his team loses in the playoffs you'll never think it was Peyton's fault.... but his team will lose all the same.


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## rightwinger (Mar 27, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



I said signature game.......it's been five years, how much do you remember about how Manning performed?

By signature game, I mean...

Johnny Unitas beating the Giants in overtime
Bart Starr in the Ice Bowl
Joe Namath guaranteeing a win over the Colts
Joe Montana and "The Catch"
Eli beating an Undefeated Patriots with an 83 yd drive

Twenty years from now, which Peyton Manning win will you be talking about?


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## Papageorgio (Mar 27, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I'll be talking about a QB making below average team into Super Bowl winners. Just as one game doesn't make a quality QB.

If you want a signature game, AFC Championship game the Pats led 21-3, Manning rallied the Colts to the biggest comeback in a conference championship game. Then the Colts went on to win a Super Bowl. 

Tebow beat the Steelers in overtime, it will long be remembered, so I guess it's a signature win, I still don't think of Tebow as a great QB.


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## Papageorgio (Mar 27, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Manning is one of the top 3 QBs of all time.
> ...



Chicago had the better team, yet the Colts and Manning found a way to win, seems like a credit to Manning. 

Did it only rain on one team? Seems to me champions wouldn't make stupid excuses like rain being the determining factor.


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## Papageorgio (Mar 27, 2012)

Nova78 said:


> 96 million dollar -wtf no one on earth is worth that



With that I agree, except, for me, I am worth that and more.


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## rightwinger (Mar 27, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Papageorgio said:
> ...



I think Peyton Manning is one of the greatest Quarterbacks I have ever seen. If you like to talk QB statistics, Peyton is right up there with the best. But in terms of big game performance and championships, he has been a disappointment. 

Peyton has nine playoff wins, his brother Eli has eight and Eli is not nearly has talented as Peyton and has not had the teams that Peyton has had. But Eli has more heart than Peyton


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## Papageorgio (Mar 27, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I respectfully disagree, I tend to think the way most think on the matter.


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## samjones (Mar 27, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> [
> Did it only rain on one team? Seems to me champions wouldn't make stupid excuses like rain being the determining factor.



I'm not really a Bears fan so I'm not making excuses for anyone.  I don't recall hearing Lovie Smith or Grossman or Urlacher or any of the Bears making excuses, so don't accuse them of making excuses because of something I wrote.

In fact, if bad weather would favor one team you would expect it to favor the outdoor team, so that excuse wouldn't make any sense any way.

However, having watched the game I can safely say that neither team was really able to execute its offense as they did in the regular season and the big plays seemed to be mostly special teams and turnovers.  I guess we'll never really know who the best team of 2006 was.   It was really a disservice to both teams.


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## Papageorgio (Mar 27, 2012)

samjones said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



I know who the best team was, it was the Colts, who Vegas favored by 7 and who won by 12, many turnovers? Yep, but that's the game, the Colts trailed by 8 after the first quarter and then held the Bears to 3 points as they scored 23. After watching the game I can safely say the best team won, so I really know who the best team was.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 27, 2012)

Really fun to read most of the posts here as they reflect nothing close to Peyton Manning and the great contribution he made to the Colts and his footprint on pro football.
PM cane to the Colts as the #1 pick in the 1998 draft. Guess why teams get the #1 pick sports jockeys? NOT because the team is good but because the team IS VERY, VERY BAD. 
Well, DUH.
The Indianopolis Colts NEVER won as many as 10 regular season games IN THE 14 YEARS BEFORE MANNING GOT THERE. 
THEY AVERAGED 11 VICTORIES A YEAR OVER HIS 13 SEASONS THERE. 
Took them to the playoffs NINE CONSECUTIVE SEASONS.
Does anyone here remember or even know who Tony Dungy is? Ask him what he thinks about the talent and carrer of Manning. I believe I would trust his judgment of a NFL player than Joe Six Pack.
And anyone with any knowledge of Indianapolis and the sports fans there knows damn well that before Manning arrived the town was strictly A PACERS town. I was at a Colts game there in the mid 90s and the Dolphins were in town. More than half the damn fans there had green on. By the time Manning had a few seasons there the entire stadium was blue.
Speaking of stadiums, again for those that are in the know in the NFL, Lucas stadium IS the house that Manning built. How many athletes are asked to speak to the legislature about state support for building stadiums? 
And in the Not For Long League the players play for $$$, big $$$. And wins, not losses, brings $$$$. Not saying I like it and in fact to me the $$$ factor many times with the cap takes away from TEAM but it is WHAT IT IS.
The year before Manning got to the Colts Forbes, that lists the value of each NFL team each year, priced the Colts at 220 million, almost at the bottom of the league. They are appraised at 1.1 billion NOW after a very bad year.
Payton Manning. 
I believe it was The Big O that was born in and may be the greatest athlete from Indianapolis but Peyton Manning IS THE GREATEST athlete ever to PLAY in that fair city.
And many a coach in team sports, especially in the Not For Long league, use indispensable as the BEST indicator of their best player on their team and in the game. "Who is the most indispensable player on the team? Who is that player that if he is not playing for us we have a harder time winning? Who is that guy that IF HE IS PLAYING, we have the best chance to win."
And that player over the last 15 years has been Peyton Manning. Colts were 141-67 with him and had THE WORST RECORD IN NFL without him.
No other QB on any other team in this time frame comes anywhere CLOSE TO THAT.
The man has FOUR, COUNT THEM, FOUR, the ONLY FOUR TIME WINNER OF THE MVP IN THE NFL.
Case closed.


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## samjones (Mar 27, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> And that player over the last 15 years has been Peyton Manning. Colts were 141-67 with him and had THE WORST RECORD IN NFL without him.
> No other QB on any other team in this time frame comes anywhere CLOSE TO THAT.



I have some vague recollection of some guy who led his team to 5 Superbowls, winning 3 and racking up an unbelievable win/loss record including the only 16 game undefeated regular season in league history and a host of other records.

Whatever happened to that guy?  Is he still around?

So, to your point of indispensibility, I would have to say the answer to the question "is a player great simply because he is indispensible" is "no".

Hoss filled in just fine for Phil Simms in '90.  Steve Young filled in fine for Joe Montana in '91 and Steve Bono filled in fine for Young when he got knocked out.  The Niners missed the playoffs that year, but if you followed their season then you'll know that it wasn't for lack of quarterback performance.

I remember back in '01 when the Future Hall of Famer Drew Bledsoe got knocked out of the game and his backup stepped in and did an okay job.  Can't remember the guy's name but he had a knack for making big plays. 

He was nowhere good as Peyton Manning, of course, because no other QB can come CLOSE TO HIM.


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## Staidhup (Mar 27, 2012)

One would have to admit Peyton and Elway deserve each other, a good fit, now lets see how that one works out, needless to say it ought to be interesting. The key question remaining is durability.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 27, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > And that player over the last 15 years has been Peyton Manning. Colts were 141-67 with him and had THE WORST RECORD IN NFL without him.
> ...




Where did I ever make the absurd claim that the QB you mention has had a "dissapointing career" and "underachieved"?
Where?
Your entire evidence to that is "well, Brady is a better QB so Manning underachieved and had a dissapointing career".
And that is about the weakest argument I have ever heard to judge the career of ANY player at any position at any time.
Tom Brady is a great player and I believe a better player than Manning.
How does that make Manning's career and achievements "dissapointing" and label him as an "underachiever".
Underachiever? 
An underachiever with 4 MVP awards. 
Sure, right.
Archie Manning is the only player EVER to win MVP and be on a losing team. If that does not tell you the fact the the MVP is the BEST player in the league for that year nothing does. And the fact that he is PM/s father is irrelevant here as my point is that MVP is the most difficult INDIVIDUAL award to win in all of football.
53 players lead teams to Super Bowls, not QBs alone.
This ain't golf or tennis, this is the NFL, A TEAM SPORT.
You are a funny man Sam.


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## samjones (Mar 27, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> my point is that MVP is the most difficult INDIVIDUAL award to win in all of football.
> 53 players lead teams to Super Bowls, not QBs alone.
> This ain't golf or tennis, this is the NFL, A TEAM SPORT.


See, I don't think of it quite that way for these marquis NFL quarterbacks.  Especially after they've been with a program for 4 or 5 years.  They have almost the same responsibility that the coach has to make sure whatever it takes they have the personnel to win.

For a player like Manning I would say that the primary responsibility for winning and losing in February falls on him and  his head coach.  You feel a little sorry for a player like Collins who simply had a bad day or Brady '12 who had receivers dropping the balls they should have caught, but 9 years out of 10 I'll say the better quarterback won the Superbowl.

If you think you're a great quarterback in the NFL and you aren't there to win Superbowls then I'd say you have a major mental malfunction.  P. Manning did win MVP 4 times. He did not win the Superbowl any of those years.  There are 3 active QB's (all younger) that have better Superbowl records than P. Manning and if I had to make a prediction then I'd say chances are good that this time next year there will be 4.

What makes P. Manning's career a disappointment is that he had a chance to have a perfect season and one-up Brady's 2007 16-0 season but instead he chose to simply not try.  I cannot forgive that as a football fan and if I were a Colts fan I would have been permanently colored on P. Manning for that decision.

Oh wait, I know - the coach made that decision.  Peyton had nothing to do with it, right?

Riiiiiiighhhht........

On the other hand, I think that E. Manning's 2007 season will always stand out to me as one of the greatest QB season's in history, primarily because he first had to deal with the Jeremy Shockey bullshit and then after that was taken care of he moved right on and truly led the greatest team in the NFL in the last 5 weeks of the season.  Very impressive.  It was David and Goliath every game of the playoffs for him.


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## rightwinger (Mar 27, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > my point is that MVP is the most difficult INDIVIDUAL award to win in all of football.
> ...



Eli Manning has been an underdog in seven playoff games...

His record is 7-0 in those games


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 28, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > my point is that MVP is the most difficult INDIVIDUAL award to win in all of football.
> ...



"almost the same responsibility that the coach has"
You are one lost puppy when it comes to football. You are entitled to your opinion.

QBs do not play defense. Offense scores points. Defense WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 28, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > my point is that MVP is the most difficult INDIVIDUAL award to win in all of football.
> ...



Under your logic in this post Brady has been an underachiever and a disappointment because he lost the last Super Bowl.
He was the same as a coach in that game under your logic and he lost.
But wait a minute, that is not the logic you used in a previous post.
Dude, you are all over the place.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 28, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> samjones said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



NO, the New York Football Giants have been a underdog in seven playoff games and their record is 7-0 in those games.


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## rightwinger (Mar 28, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > samjones said:
> ...



Good point....

But by the same logic, Peyton Manning does not have all those passing yards and touchdowns. They are the result of his coaching staff, offensive line and receivers


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## samjones (Mar 28, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Under your logic in this post Brady has been an underachiever and a disappointment because he lost the last Super Bowl.
> He was the same as a coach in that game under your logic and he lost.
> But wait a minute, that is not the logic you used in a previous post.
> Dude, you are all over the place.



Disappointment for sure.  "Underacheiver?"  Meh - I think at this point in his career Brady can safely argue he's achieved quite a bit.  He does have arguably the  best Superbowl record in history.   There are 14 guys who have a better Superbowl record than P. Manning.

Plus there was the whole deal with him walking away from a perfect season.  Brady never did that.  He could have taken the bench in the last game of the season against the eventual Superbowl Champions but he hung in there and fought.  Gotta admire that.

I don't think that there is a football fan alive who didn't see Superbowl XLV as a rematch between Brady and E. Manning.   Even though they never took the field at the same time it just seemed like they were facing each other down.  The asterisk by Brady's name will read "*But Eli Manning had his number".  Everybody knows that, Patriots fan and Giants fan alike.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 28, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Under your logic in this post Brady has been an underachiever and a disappointment because he lost the last Super Bowl.
> ...



Sam, you do not use the same criteria in your evaluation of Brady and Manning.
Brady does not play defense so how does Eli have his number???


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## Montrovant (Mar 28, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Under your logic in this post Brady has been an underachiever and a disappointment because he lost the last Super Bowl.
> ...



Your arguments seem to wander all over the place.  Brady has arguably the best SB record at 3-2, when there are 2 quarterbacks who went 4-0 in the SB?  This, after you earlier said that consistently winning the SB was one of the important measurements of a great qb? 

Manning 'walked away' from a perfect season, as though his coaching staff is immaterial.  If he were a 'champion', he'd have ignored the coaches and played anyway!  On the other hand, I don't recall any instances of Brady ignoring Belichick.

You've said Joe Namath, who had a 50% career completion percentage, who threw more int's than td's (including in his SB year) is a better QB than Jim Kelly, the only QB to go to 4 SB's in a row, who had much better stats; does that mean that any QB with a SB win is better than any QB without one?  If not, why is Namath better than Kelly but someone else, like Dilfer, is not?

Would you consider Otto Graham a better QB than any of these others, with his 7-3 NFL championship record?

Obviously these kinds of arguments are very subjective, but just what you base your opinion on is pretty unclear.


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## samjones (Mar 28, 2012)

Montrovant said:


> Brady has arguably the best SB record at 3-2, when there are 2 quarterbacks who went 4-0 in the SB?  This, after you earlier said that consistently winning the SB was one of the important measurements of a great qb?



A 3-2 SB record is arguably better than a 4-0 SB record.  It's about understanding what the word "arguably" means.




Montrovant said:


> Manning 'walked away' from a perfect season, as though his coaching staff is immaterial.  If he were a 'champion', he'd have ignored the coaches and played anyway!  On the other hand, I don't recall any instances of Brady ignoring Belichick.



That's just pure bullshit.  A coach doesn't stop a quarterback from pursuing a perfect season.  I do not accept that P. Manning was powerless to prevent his removal from the game against the Jest.  It's simply makes no sense.

I think it's more probably that the Colts would prefer to play the Jest in the playoffs so they let them win.

Going to the Superbowl is good for a QB.  2 active QBs, both younger, have done that more times that P. Manning.  Winning is better.  3 active QBs have done that.

It is true that P. Manning won the AP MVP 4 times, but the Brady won the NFL's all-decade 1st team spot, which is far more prestigious.  P. Manning was 2nd team.  In all those MVP years P. Manning never won a Superbowl.  If you don't think winning Superbowls is important for a quarterback then maybe you just never cheered for a Superbowl winning team.

I would judge E. Manning on different criteria than those other 2 simply because he is a different kind of player.


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## Montrovant (Mar 28, 2012)

samjones said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > Brady has arguably the best SB record at 3-2, when there are 2 quarterbacks who went 4-0 in the SB?  This, after you earlier said that consistently winning the SB was one of the important measurements of a great qb?
> ...



I understand what the word arguably means.  Do you understand that when you make the argument that consistently winning the SB is the mark of a great QB, that then saying Brady's 3-2 record might be better than Bradshaw's 4-0 record is silly?  Sure, you can argue Brady's record is better....but if you also argue consistency in winning is of great importance, you aren't making any sense.

How many NFL seasons did you play?  How many college seasons?  If the answer to those questions is zero, how do you know that Manning could control whether or not the Colts would go for a perfect season with him?  Even if you played college and even NFL football, unless you played for that coach, how do you know what kind of control he had over his team, or what kind of relationship he and Manning had, which would determine who had the final say in if Manning played?

Oh, and the Colts lost on purpose to play the Jets?  I suppose it's possible, but I doubt many players would be good with throwing games to pick playoff opponents.  Why you think that is more likely than the Colts simply wanting to avoid injury and rest their players when their seeding was already determined I don't understand.  It's not as though resting players late in the season was a new concept; it had been done before.

I don't care if you think Brady is better than Manning.  I think he is as well.  Winning SBs IS a consideration in who is the greatest IMO.  I don't put as much importance on it as you seem to....although I'm not sure just how much importance you put on it, since you aren't consistent in your application of it.  

Oh, and as a Niner fan since the 80s, I've cheered more than 1 QB in the SB.


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## Papageorgio (Mar 28, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > And that player over the last 15 years has been Peyton Manning. Colts were 141-67 with him and had THE WORST RECORD IN NFL without him.
> ...



The difference is Brady and Manning is that Brady plays under the Belichick system and it makes QB's look very good, see Cassell, that said,Brady has a lot of talent. Coaches work around Manning's abilities, they don't fit Manning into their system.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 29, 2012)

Media hypes up the games in this era as "Brady versus Eli" BS and the naive fans eat it up.
53 players play football and it takes most of them over a season to win a Super Bowl or even have a good season.
Especially post cap.
If you look back over time the teams that have the best defenses consistently win and their QBs consistently have more longevity than better QBs on teams with a bad defense. The Steelers made their run on defense and their defense carried them for a decade. The best friend an offense can have is a good defense and the best friend a defense has IS A RUNNING GAME. The running game, not the QB, is what keeps the offense on the field.
Moving the chains with the running game wears down a D and all the QB does in that game is hand the damn ball off.
Hard to lose when you do not give up many points.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 29, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> samjones said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Very good point. System QBs have to very disciplined and smart first. Interesting that it was always the defenses that had systems and the players had to come out of college and fit the system which was always FAR different than college. Same today but with musical chairs in The Not For Long League, especially for coaches, players have a helluva time fitting into a system when their team has a revolving door of OCs and head coaches. Hell, blocking schemes can affect a running and passing game so even a new OLC can screw things up. 
But give me a modified 50 and let me play pinch off the edge and no matter what system there was 73 was coming!


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## samjones (Mar 29, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Media hypes up the games in this era as "Brady versus Eli" BS and the naive fans eat it up.
> 53 players play football and it takes most of them over a season to win a Super Bowl or even have a good season.
> Especially post cap.
> If you look back over time the teams that have the best defenses consistently win and their QBs consistently have more longevity than better QBs on teams with a bad defense. The Steelers made their run on defense and their defense carried them for a decade. The best friend an offense can have is a good defense and the best friend a defense has IS A RUNNING GAME. The running game, not the QB, is what keeps the offense on the field.
> ...



There have been a couple of teams win Superbowls on the backs of the defense.  But time and time again you see marquis quarterbacks winning the big game.  It's very easy to remember the name of the game-winning QB for most Superbowls because their household names.  Trying to remember the name of the middle line backer might be more of a challenge for most.

The media didn't have to hype last year's E. Manning v. Brady matchup for me to realize that this was truly the story of that Sunday.  It's patently absurd and bit stupid to think that 2 players have to directly oppose each other face to face to make a game be about them.  Baseball has pitching duels all the time.  Basketball had Bird/Magic despite the fact that the players played different positions and rarely got close to each other.  

P. Manning's playoff performance problems go well beyond his Superbowls.  He simply has disappointed in January year after year.  He went his first 5 years without winning a playoff game and after that there have been huge disappointments more often than not.  Okay - so I'll give him 2006 even though the heavy rain left me wondering who the better team was, but giving up the chance for the 2009 perfect season was inexcusable and every other year has either been a loss to Brady or a loss in the first round.

It just isn't an impressive post-season career.  

It's not going to get better at Denver, because the team has structural problems.  2011 was not a good year for them.  They had a losing record.  They have one of the league's worst defenses.  Almost all of their wins were against losing teams and were by less than a 7 points.  And for all that it took Tebow's personal heroics to get them that far.  Peyton would take 3 or 4 years to make this a good team and he doesn't have 3 or 4 years.

This experience is going to remind us of Montana/Chiefs.  Except Montana was still good when he went to the Chiefs and the Chiefs had a good team.  Still they disappointed in the playoffs.  If I were Peyton I'd buy a ski chalet at Winter Park and get ready to enjoy a nice relaxed January sitting in front of the fire.


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## Montrovant (Mar 29, 2012)

samjones said:


> There have been a couple of teams win Superbowls on the backs of the defense.  But time and time again you see marquis quarterbacks winning the big game.  It's very easy to remember the name of the game-winning QB for most Superbowls because their household names.  Trying to remember the name of the middle line backer might be more of a challenge for most.
> 
> The media didn't have to hype last year's E. Manning v. Brady matchup for me to realize that this was truly the story of that Sunday.  It's patently absurd and bit stupid to think that 2 players have to directly oppose each other face to face to make a game be about them.  Baseball has pitching duels all the time.  Basketball had Bird/Magic despite the fact that the players played different positions and rarely got close to each other.
> 
> ...



You are right that marquis quarterbacks win a lot of Super Bowls.  Of course, there is the question of whether they would be marquis quarterbacks if they hadn't won those Super Bowls.....

I didn't look at this last SB as between Brady and Manning.  In my mind it was more Brady vs the Giants, or just Pats vs Giants; would the Pats be able to get their 4th ring against the team that beat them last time to stop the perfect season?  I don't think anyone is questioning whether Eli Manning is a better QB than Brady, so the Eli vs Tom thing doesn't really work IMO. 

While Manning's playoff record isn't quite as bad as you make it out to be (9-10) he has long been considered a disappointing playoff QB.  I will not argue that.

I think you misjudge Denver a bit.  Their defense is the only reason that Tebow had an opportunity to come back in a number of games last year.  They may not have been playing top-notch offenses, but the defense wasn't terrible.  As for Tebow....I think he is little more than media hype.  He was NOT a particularly good QB last year.  He's a Kordell Stewart kind of player; he can make some big plays for you, but you don't want him behind center for the entire game.  Manning is a FAR better QB than Tebow.  So, it's possible the Denver offense will improve right away.  They may not, they might need time to acclimate themselves to Manning's style and talents.  We'll see with that.

If you want to compare this to Montana and the Chiefs, I think the Broncos would be thrilled.  Montana took the Chiefs to their first ever AFC Championship game.  I'm not sure how you can think that success was a disappointment.


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## samjones (Mar 29, 2012)

Montrovant said:


> You are right that marquis quarterbacks win a lot of Super Bowls.  Of course, there is the question of whether they would be marquis quarterbacks if they hadn't won those Super Bowls.....



There are alot of marquis quarterbacks who never won a Superbowl or even made it to the big game.  Eagles and Vikings, mostly, but there are a smattering from other teams.  Awhile back in this thread somebody had the cajones ot utter the words "Warren Moon".

There's only one regular guy who has a Superbowl pedigree and in some ways I think Kurt's story is the most incredible QB story of all.



Montrovant said:


> If you want to compare this to Montana and the Chiefs, I think the Broncos would be thrilled.  Montana took the Chiefs to their first ever AFC Championship game.  I'm not sure how you can think that success was a disappointment.


Technically true, but certainly misleading.  The Chiefs did win the AFL and went to 2 Superbowls regardless of what they were called at the time and won one of them.  Terminology aside, the Chiefs' glory days were not with Montana.

You are not really correct that Kansas CIty was happy with Montana's performance.  They were hoping for more.  They were accustomed to playoff berths under Schottenheimer and they were hoping to get more out of Montana (and out of Bono too, for that matter) than they had gotten out of DeBerg.  It wasn't meant to be.  

Joe Montana was particularly unhappy with Joe Montana's performance and as a commentator frequently on television around that time he would consistently speak reqret about how he "couldn't get the job done in Kansas City".

See - I write about the football I watched, not the football I read about on Wikipedia and I remember these things.  To say that Joe Montana would have considered losing a conference championship to be a "success" is to badly, badly misunderstand what kind of competitor Joe Montana was.

But otherwise I agree with you.  Peyton will probably be thrilled to go out and lose a conference championship to Brady or Big Ben or Flacco or whoever...... (Maybe Andy Luck, heh heh.)

My money's on John Harbaugh and Joe Flacco.  I don't know what it is but I just like the way them Ravens play under him.

(FTR: I'm a Niners fan first, a Chiefs fan second.  The Lions have a soft spot in my heart ever since they had their perfect season.)


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 29, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Media hypes up the games in this era as "Brady versus Eli" BS and the naive fans eat it up.
> ...



Denver has Fox who is one of the best defensive coaches in the NFL, statistically on 3rd down last year and other areas listed earlier they did very well. 
Why do you think they went with Tebow and kept punting and punting and punting last year? They had MORE confidence in their D than their offense.
I agree with a lot of your post as to Denver's team. 
You make my point for me Sam. QBs most of the time do not make the team.
In previous posts you are telling us just the opposite.
Peyton Manning is not a "most of the time" QB. 
Denver needs another back as Willis is a little old in the tooth there. Their OL is sound and Fox is a wizard at building his D. 
But I agree they are a long shot to even win one playoff game next year but I predict a 9-7 or 10-6 team.
But my postings are not about the Demver Broncos, they are about Manning.
However, I fully admit that there are going to be some wide gap DEs next year salivating at the shot at taking their best shot at an aging, slow and unscrambling Peyton Manning.
That is for damn sure. That is my neck of the woods!


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## Montrovant (Mar 29, 2012)

samjones said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > You are right that marquis quarterbacks win a lot of Super Bowls.  Of course, there is the question of whether they would be marquis quarterbacks if they hadn't won those Super Bowls.....
> ...



The point is not whether Montana considers his short stint on KC to be disappointing, but whether the team (and the fans) considered it to be so.  Yes, the Chiefs won a couple of early Super Bowls, and those can be considered more successful seasons.  However, since the merger, they had not made it to the AFC Championship game until Montana joined the team.  While every team obviously wants a Super Bowl win, if you pick up a free agent QB and he leads your team further into the playoffs than it has ever been, in his first year with the team no less, I'm not sure how that can be considered a disappointment.

I have no idea what Manning will or won't be happy with on the Broncos.  If they make it to the AFC Championship game this season, I think the management would be pleased.  Again, they want to win the SB of course, but I imagine they are realistic to know that last year's team wasn't just a QB away from being a SB contender.

I watched Montana on the Chiefs.  I thought he did a good job, considering his age and the talent around him, a very good job.  The only way I would consider his couple of seasons a disappointment is in the same way EVERY team that doesn't win the SB can consider their season a disappointment.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 29, 2012)

Montrovant said:


> samjones said:
> 
> 
> > Montrovant said:
> ...



Exactly, hell Archie won MVP and his team not only did not make the playoffs, they had a losing record.


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## samjones (Mar 29, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> Exactly, hell Archie won MVP



You've said this twice now and I don't know why but he didn't.  I'm not interested in having a qualitative argument with you about the merits of Archie Manning.  I would only ask that you review this one fact before you repeat it again.


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## samjones (Mar 29, 2012)

Montrovant said:


> The point is not whether Montana considers his short stint on KC to be disappointing, but whether the team (and the fans) considered it to be so.



I moved out of the KC area in '90, so I'm not the perfect person to ask, but I still felt pretty connected to it through friends and trips home in '93 and I don't recall people being really all that happy about it.

See, these days the Superbowl probably features the 2 best teams in football.  For a long time it was only the after-party for the NFC Championship winner and never was that more true than in '93 when the Niners and the Cowboys were playing their annual game known to all as "The Real Superbowl".... for Joe to be playing for the Chiefs that year was unpalatable to all.   Perhaps the Chiefs delighted in the sloppy seconds offered by the Niners because it was the first sloppy seconds of a line of sloppy seconds starting with a guy named "Montana" but including men going by the handles "Bono" and "Elvis".  Couldn't have made a worse gay porn movie.  Perhaps I saw a gay porn movie in the 90's.  I honestly can't remember.  Perhaps I watched the chiefs in the '90s.  So long ago, to tell you the truth I forgot.


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## Montrovant (Mar 29, 2012)

samjones said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > The point is not whether Montana considers his short stint on KC to be disappointing, but whether the team (and the fans) considered it to be so.
> ...



  Got to give you credit for that, very funny.

I remember well the NFL dominance....the Bills losing 4 in a row is perhaps the best example of it.  

Did the Chiefs 'break the bank' to acquire Montana?  As I remember it it didn't cost them all that much.  That's part of why I wouldn't think his success was disappointing.  To contrast, if the Skins draft RGIII as expected, and he doesn't turn into a superstar, I think that would be a huge disappointment, because of how much they gave up to get him.  With Montana, it seemed less of an all or nothing proposition; they took a chance getting him, but if he failed they could move on fairly quickly.  And really, I just think anyone who *expected* Montana to win a SB with the Chiefs was being foolish (the same with Manning in Denver).  He made them a better team, but in the short season and 1-and-done format of the NFL, even the best teams may not win it all.

I don't really have a problem with your opinions about the subject, even if I disagree with them, I have just had some issues following the thoughts that led you to them.  I have a friend who refuses to consider Jim Brown one of the top all time RBs because 'he's a wife-beater', so this is far from the silliest football debate I've had. 

Can we agree that Manning is better than Tebow, at least?


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 30, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly, hell Archie won MVP
> ...



For the third time, Manning was NFL MVP in 1978 by The Sporting News which was THE FIRST entity to make such awards in 1954.

I would ask that you do just a little research.


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## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> samjones said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Somewhat deceptive

He was NFC MVP by the Sporting News

He was not what is today recognized as MVP by Associated Press. That went to Terry Bradshaw

National Football League Most Valuable Player Award - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_.    Today, when the award is referred to without mentioning the awarding entity, that of the Associated Press is generally meant_


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 30, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > samjones said:
> ...




Deceptive my ass. They always gave one to each conference as that was the custom that decade.
AP came along AFTER the Sporting News. Amongst the players the Sporting News is a better indicator than AP. AP is an eastern biased rag. They donate a shit load of $$$ to the NFL each year for their name recognition. Take a look at their MVP and it is dominated by eastern teams year in and year out. Same with the tie in with ESPN, EASTERN sports network. 

22 of their first 29 MVPs were from north east teams. Most were deserving, that year Archie was just unreal on a weak team.
For a better reflection of the NFL MVP refer to The Sporting News, an unbiased and objective source in the sporting world.

Manning had 3620 total yards that year out of the team 4900 total yards.
On a worse than shit team.
Best indicator of what a joke the AP is the 1982 award to a damn kicker the NFL MVP.
That is when the players knew for damn sure AP IS JOKE.
Unbelievable.


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## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



You might not like it, but the AP awards the MVP.  If you meant Sporting News MVP, you should have said so. Sporting News has lost it's luster. I looked through the AP MVP list and I don't see an east coast bias. I don't see many Giants, Jets, Eagles or Redskins at all

In 1982, The Sporting News gave Kicker Mark Mosely their MVP also

In 1978, Earl Campbell had a better year than Archie Manning and would have been sole Sporting News MVP


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 30, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Many media entites award the MVP.
AP paid for their right to it as all the others and the players know that AP is pay to play.
AP is the lamest of the lame rightwinger. Luv ya my man but reality is reality.
In the strike shortened '82 season AP gives the MVP to Mark Moseley, a damn kicker.
And what does Moseley do? He misses 3 extra points that year! Hell, some kickers have extra point streaks of over 100 attempts without a miss. 
Everyone knows that a Redskin player was going to get it that year for payback to the Skins organization for their role in ending the strike.
AP is politics first and foremost and always will be. 
There had to be 100 players more valuable than him that year, maybe 200 don't you think winger? 
Better year is not the standard of MVP. Most valuable player means most valuable player. 
Players play on a team. That is and has always been the standard.


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## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Before you go further, you need to acknowledge that The Sporting News gave Mark Mosely the MVP in 1982 also


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 30, 2012)

rightwinger said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I knew SOMEONE would do some research and note that and figured it would be you.

The Sporting News gives out 3 awards each year, MVP, coach of the year and an All Pro team..
In 1982 because of the strike the Sporting News REFUSED to name and did not name any of those 3 or any NFL awards. Tradition has it that the All Pro team is named first and then the player and the coach.

In an edition of The Sporting News after the season and I am looking for it they wrote an article about how weird it was for Moseley to be named MVP in a 9 game season much less any season. 
So later, after this article and I believe after a month later and after the AP awards and when SN normally gave their awards, SN DID name Moseley as MVP and Joe Gibbs as coach of the year alongside another article stating because of the absurdity of those awards they WOULD NOT name an ALL PRO team that year because of that and the strike shortened season. Their own form of parody.

Interesting and I bet if I can not find that article I can find a copy on e-bay and get it.
But it does exist and SN was known be the anti establishment, anti big $$ east coast dominance in media.


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## rightwinger (Mar 30, 2012)

As a Giants fan, Mark Mosely killed us. Game on the line, inside 50 yards....game over

He is also one of the last straight on kickers I remember


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## samjones (Mar 30, 2012)

Gadawg73 said:


> In an edition of The Sporting News after the season and I am looking for it they wrote an article about how weird it was for Moseley to be named MVP in a 9 game season much less any season.
> So later, after this article and I believe after a month later and after the AP awards and when SN normally gave their awards, SN DID name Moseley as MVP and Joe Gibbs as coach of the year alongside another article stating because of the absurdity of those awards they WOULD NOT name an ALL PRO team that year because of that and the strike shortened season. Their own form of parody.
> 
> Interesting and I bet if I can not find that article I can find a copy on e-bay and get it.
> But it does exist and SN was known be the anti establishment, anti big $$ east coast dominance in media.



This is all very interesting, but again I will remind you.

Nobody named Archie Manning the NFL MVP of any year.  That simply did not happen.  You are simply incorrect when you continue to say that.

Furthermore, it is very unlikely that anybody but the sports trivia buffs would really know who Archie Manning is/was if he didn't have 2 sons who are successful NFL quarterbacks.  

*EVERYBODY* knows the names of the quarterbacks who went to the Superbowl that year.  Even my wife knows those names.   So any assertion on your part that Archie Manning was somehow THE quarterback of that year only shows that you know fuckall about 1978.  Trust me, I was there.  It was about Bradshaw/Staubach.


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## Papageorgio (Mar 30, 2012)

samjones said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > In an edition of The Sporting News after the season and I am looking for it they wrote an article about how weird it was for Moseley to be named MVP in a 9 game season much less any season.
> ...



Archie Manning was a very famous QB, even before his kids, but nice try. He played for the Aints. He was a big talent on a team that was destine to stink, they compared him with Maravich of the New Orleans Jazz, two superstars stuck in NO, it was sports purgatory at the time.


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## samjones (Mar 30, 2012)

Papageorgio said:


> Archie Manning was a very famous QB, even before his kids, but nice try. He played for the Aints. He was a big talent on a team that was destine to stink, they compared him with Maravich of the New Orleans Jazz, two superstars stuck in NO, it was sports purgatory at the time.



He played for a few teams..... worse.... record..... ever.

Still, he'd probably do better for the Broncs next year than Peyton will.


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## mal (Mar 4, 2013)

So a year later and a Playoff Loss as what Defined the Season for the Broncos after paying $90 Million for Peyton...

Was he worth it?...

Tebow can say something Peyton can't...

He Won a Playoff Game for the Broncos. 



peace...


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## rightwinger (Mar 4, 2013)

mal said:


> So a year later and a Playoff Loss as what Defined the Season for the Broncos after paying $90 Million for Peyton...
> 
> Was he worth it?...
> 
> ...



Tebow won a playoff game in a round that Peyton didn't have to play because he earned a bye.

Both  Denver teams lost in the second round


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## mal (Mar 4, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> > So a year later and a Playoff Loss as what Defined the Season for the Broncos after paying $90 Million for Peyton...
> ...





Aren't you missing in some Political Thread right now Fauxlbert?...



peace...


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## namvet (Mar 4, 2013)

mal said:


> So a year later and a Playoff Loss as what Defined the Season for the Broncos after paying $90 Million for Peyton...
> 
> Was he worth it?...
> 
> ...



bump


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## Montrovant (Mar 4, 2013)

rightwinger said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> > So a year later and a Playoff Loss as what Defined the Season for the Broncos after paying $90 Million for Peyton...
> ...



That's actually a very good point.....although saying Tebow won a playoff game and Manning didn't is certainly funnier.


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## mal (Mar 4, 2013)

Montrovant said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > mal said:
> ...



It's not a good point... Peyton's Broncos didn't Win a Playoff Game... Tebow's did...

And it cost an extra $90 Million to not Win a Playoff game...

Awesome. 



peace...


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## Montrovant (Mar 4, 2013)

mal said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Tebow's Broncos didn't give up 35 points, either.  And Tebow has done what, exactly, since?  Or before, for that matter, in the NFL?

I'm not going to defend Manning's playoff performances.  He's obviously not been a great playoff performer.  That doesn't make Tebow a good NFL quarterback, though.  

Oh, and while Manning certainly cost a lot more, I wonder how much money he may have brought in from fans?


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## rightwinger (Mar 4, 2013)

mal said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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Tebows Broncos got humiliated by the Pats in the second round. 

Mannings Broncos DEFENSE gave up a 70 yard TD with 30 seconds left


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## mal (Mar 4, 2013)

I absolutely ADORE Liberal Hate of Tebow... 



peace...


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## TheOldSchool (Mar 4, 2013)

mal said:


> I absolutely ADORE Liberal Hate of Tebow...
> 
> 
> 
> peace...



Soon the league will realize that Tebow is an elite mastermind at the QB position.  Then the libtards will eat their words!!!


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## rightwinger (Mar 4, 2013)

TheOldSchool said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> > I absolutely ADORE Liberal Hate of Tebow...
> ...



Can GOD be wrong?


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 4, 2013)

Tebow does not have the skills to play in the NFL as a starter.
Nothing to do with God, Rufus Carter, Abe Jackson or Cabe Miller.
If you can play in the Not For Long League nothing stops you.
If you can't no cry babies.
Credit that kid Tebow as he is no cry baby.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 4, 2013)

In the league they do not care if you love Jesus, hate Jesus, worship those lucky socks you have not washed in 7 years, wear shoes that saw their better day 6 years ago, wear earings, are tatted up and down the arms and neck, have long hair, wear fake dreadlocks that hang down to your ass, have bones in your nose. IT DOES NOT MATTER.
The ONLY criteria is: *CAN YOU PLAY*
And Tebow falls short of that SINGLE criteria.
Nothing against the kid as I am a long time Georgia booster and he played for the evil empire in college.
He is a fine young man but that does not make him a starting NFL QB.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 4, 2013)

mal said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
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You are making yourself look very foolish here.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 4, 2013)

Tebow 2011 14 games  12 TD passes 1700 yards
Manning 2012 16 games 37 TD passes 4660 yards


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## mal (Mar 5, 2013)

TheOldSchool said:


> mal said:
> 
> 
> > I absolutely ADORE Liberal Hate of Tebow...
> ...



Nope... 

But the Hate will Continue Regardless... 



peace...


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## mal (Mar 5, 2013)

Gadawg73 said:


> Tebow 2011 14 games  12 TD passes 1700 yards
> Manning 2012 16 games 37 TD passes 4660 yards



Statistics are AWESOME...

$90 Million spent... Not one Playoff Game Won...

But damn it those Stats @ #2 in the NFL as QB mean everything...

Joe Flacco was #12... 

How did his Season end again?... 

Oh yeah... And tell me about some of Peyton's other Post Season runs...

Were they Familiar to 2012?...



peace...


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## Article 15 (Mar 5, 2013)

Gadawg73 said:


> Tebow does not have the skills to play in the NFL as a starter.
> Nothing to do with God, Rufus Carter, Abe Jackson or Cabe Miller.
> If you can play in the Not For Long League nothing stops you.
> If you can't no cry babies.
> Credit that kid Tebow as he is no cry baby.



Tebow doesn't have the skill to be a QB in the NFL or the mental make up to be a leader in an NFL locker room.


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## mal (Mar 5, 2013)

Article 15 said:


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That's all fine and good... But was Peyton worth $90 Million?...

I say nada.



peace...


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## Article 15 (Mar 5, 2013)

mal said:


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You speak as if the entirety of the contract has played out.  He could win a ring next season.  It certainly wasn't Manning's fault they lost that game to Baltimore.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 5, 2013)

mal said:


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Is anyone worth 90 million?


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## mal (Mar 5, 2013)

Gadawg73 said:


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Joe Flacco is apparently worth 120...



peace...


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 5, 2013)

mal said:


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Manning does not play defense mal.
Champ Bailey, *ONE OF OUR OWN*, got burned TWICE and Flacco hit him.

If you are a corner in the NFL on island man up coverage and you have never been beat long then you have not played very long.
14 seasons for Champ with 52 picks but he got bold against the Ravens.

There are old corners in the NFL and there are bold corners in the NFL but the old and bold corners get burned in the NFL.


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## Article 15 (Mar 5, 2013)

Bailey got so abused that game.  

I actually felt bad for him at one point.


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## Papageorgio (Mar 5, 2013)

I think Tebow has the skills to lead as he proved in Denver.
I think he lacks the skills to be an NFL QB.  He maybe be a good Tight End.


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## mal (Mar 5, 2013)

Gadawg73 said:


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This is personal for you isn't it?...



peace...


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## Montrovant (Mar 5, 2013)

mal said:


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If Flacco is worth 120 million, Manning is easily worth 90.


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## HUGGY (Mar 5, 2013)

mal said:


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Not if ya couldn't beat the Ravens with him.  Last season was your best chance.  

Seems like he made some bonehead plays down the stretch in that game also.  I honestly thought Denver was the better team.  Fuck Ray Lewis.  

Now Lucky Luck will be tearin up the AFC.  It will be unlikely Denver will get home field thruout the playoffs.


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## HUGGY (Mar 5, 2013)

mal said:


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Flacco's contract spells the end of the Ravens.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 5, 2013)

Papageorgio said:


> I think Tebow has the skills to lead as he proved in Denver.
> I think he lacks the skills to be an NFL QB.  He maybe be a good Tight End.



Fullback maybe but too late for that.


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## rightwinger (Mar 5, 2013)

HUGGY said:


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Its front loaded to preserve cap space and only half of it is guaranteed

NFL contracts are not as lucrative as they appear in the papers. Flacco will never see the $29 million he is supposed to get at the end of the contract. He will either be cut or forced to renegotiate


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 5, 2013)

HUGGY said:


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Come on man, Broncos offense romped on the Ravens all day putting up 30 points.
30 points in the Not For Long league wins 80% of the games.

30 first downs.

But the Ravens offense torched a good Denver defense.
This game was all about the Denver defense not showing up. PM's 2 picks did not help but he put up 30 points.
That was enough to win.

Manning does not play defense.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 5, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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Exactly, they can cut you and you do not get a nickel of it unless it is an injury buyout.
Baseball needs to go that route.

But if he puts up the #s he will get it but I agree that is doubtful.


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## mal (Mar 5, 2013)

The Broncos Lost... At Home... To Flacco... And a Retiring Ray Lewis.

BUT THEY ALMOST WON A PLAYOFF GAME WITH MANNING GOD DAMN SON OF A BITCH BASTARDS!... 



peace...


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 5, 2013)

mal said:


> The Broncos Lost... At Home... To Flacco... And a Retiring Ray Lewis.
> 
> BUT THEY ALMOST WON A PLAYOFF GAME WITH MANNING GOD DAMN SON OF A BITCH BASTARDS!...
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Flacco did not throw a pick in the entire playoffs, Super Bowl MVP. 
3 TDs in Super Bowl against a very good SF D.


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## HUGGY (Mar 5, 2013)

Gadawg73 said:


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This makes no sense.  Good defenses show up.


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 5, 2013)

HUGGY said:


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Respectfully, you do not know shit about football.
Fox's defenses are always very good and last year Denver had the 2nd best defensive squad in the league.


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## rightwinger (Mar 5, 2013)

Gadawg73 said:


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For gods sake

A High School Defense would not surrender a 70 yd TD with 30 sec left. Do they understand what a Safety does?


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## mal (Mar 5, 2013)

Gadawg73 said:


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^Apparently believes I didn't watch the Show... 



peace...


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## Gadawg73 (Mar 5, 2013)

rightwinger said:


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What about "the Denver defense did not show up" in that game in my previous post do you not understand?

Denver's defense was the 2nd best in the league last year. Do not believe me, go look it up.
Denver's offense was the 4th best in the league.

God does not care about this game. He is a Georgia Bulldog fan.


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