# Whitesplaning Racism



## IM2 (Jun 2, 2018)

This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.

*6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*

May 17, 2017 by Maisha Z. Johnson

And unfortunately, just as frequently, I’ve had white people try to explain racism to me, a woman of color. There’s a word for this phenomenon, too –_whitesplaining. _It’s incredibly frustrating to share my experiences with racism, only to have a white person try to speak over me about it – and often by belittling how racism hurts me.

If you’re white, you may have whitesplained without realizing it. To understand whitesplaining, now picture yourself in the following situation.

I’m venting about my day, and I tell you I’m angry that a white neighbor told me, “I don’t even see you as Black.”

Would you reassure me that my neighbor meant well? If you do, don’t be surprised if I’m just as annoyed as you would be if a man tried to explain your experience with street harassment to you.

*Usually, signs of whitesplaining include a condescending tone and a paternalistic assumption that a person of color doesn’t know enough to accurately articulate their own experience.*

The term doesn’t apply to every instance when a white person talks about racism, just like mansplaining doesn’t apply to every instance when a man talks about gender oppression. But whitesplaining is a result of the power white people hold as part of the dominant culture in the US. So recognizingwhen it’s happening is one of the everyday ways you can help dismantle the oppressive system of white supremacy.

Like with other forms of privileged explaining, including mansplaining, people who whitesplain have been conditioned to believe that they’re somehow more qualified to speak about a marginalized group than a person who belongs to that group.

That’s why there’s no equivalent like “blacksplaining.” When a Black person talks about race with a white person, they don’t have the same institutional power as a white person who belongs to the dominant culture.

*And that’s the problem with whitesplaining. It’s not just harmlessly discussing racism, but implicitly acting on racist ideas that say that people of color are ignorant and wrong, even about their own experiences.*

You probably don’t think you’re motivated by racist ideas when you whitesplain – just like men don’t have to hate women in order to participate in everyday sexism like mansplaining.

For instance, you might think you have a perfectly good reason for telling me my neighbor didn’t mean to be racist. You’ve spent time with her, and you’ve never known her to be racist, or you can tell she meant to compliment me by saying she doesn’t see me as Black.

But while these well-meaning reasons for correcting me feel true, it’s also true that you can act on subconscious, implicit biases leading you to dismiss what I have to say because I’m Black.

If you don’t believe whitesplaining is wrong, then you’re missing how the motivation behind whitesplaining is influenced by white supremacy. So let’s unpack the most common reasons why whitesplaining happens, to examine why it’s so misguided.

*I guarantee that many whites here will stop reading this after they see the word whites. These are the same people who will read volumes of racist lies about blacks without fail. Yet as they don't they'll be more than glad to post their opinions too stupid to understand they are doing exactly what the writer says.*

6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)


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## BULLDOG (Jun 3, 2018)

I see your point, but I don't think I can completely agree with all you say. Trust me. This isn't an effort to be confrontational, but just an effort to better understand your beliefs and you perhaps understanding mine. I guess a person saying they don't see you as black could mean that they think you might somehow be better than their perception of what a black person is, (an obvious insult)  but more likely it's just a clumsy way of saying your race is not an issue. I don't understand why that would offend you. Please explain.


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## bgrouse (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*
> 
> ...


You obviously live a very pampered life if you have time to get angry about something as innocuous as this. The majority of whites deal with far greater struggles.

Just be happy our white society is giving you the opportunity to live in a modern society that your own stupid race would never be able to create on your own.


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## cnm (Jun 3, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Did it every occur to you that people may not give a fetid dingo's kidney about your experiences?
> 
> Not to denigrate your personal tragedies but everyone has issues in their life with which they've had to deal.  There are those who don't feel comfortable discussing their personal histories with others and reciprocally aren't comfortable letting others kvetch about their problems to them.
> 
> Unless I was in someway personally responsible for your experiences then sharing them with me is inappropriately personal.


No whitesplainin' here, not no way...



fncceo said:


> I'm old enough to remember when open anti-Semitism was both legal and condoned by government. As a kid growing up in New York, there were places my family couldn't live, hotels where they couldn't stay, jobs for which they couldn't apply, and clubs they weren't allowed to join ... in America.


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## fncceo (Jun 3, 2018)

cnm said:


> fncceo said:
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> > Did it every occur to you that people may not give a fetid dingo's kidney about your experiences?
> ...



By definition, any reaction apart from total silence occasionally punctuated with 'That's dreadful', would be 'whitesplaining'.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *I guarantee that many whites here will stop reading this after they see the word whites. These are the same people who will read volumes of racist lies about blacks without fail. Yet as they don't they'll be more than glad to post their opinions too stupid to understand they are doing exactly what the writer says.*
> 
> 6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)


This is an excellent article, thank you for posting it

...when I’m talking about a racist act, I don’t have much interest in whether or not the person responsible is “a racist.”

If that sounds counterintuitive, then you could really use this clarification about addressing white supremacy: It’s not about identifying people as racists.

It’s also not about “bashing” white people – but you may interpret it that way if you’re feeling uncomfortable. And then you might whitesplain that people of color are “attacking” you for no reason.

*When it comes to things like holding implicit biases and **benefiting from white privilege**, the question of whether or not someone is intentionally bigoted is **completely irrelevant**.*

So you’re not under attack if a person of color is talking to you about race – not even if they’re calling you out for racism.

I remember one call-out in which writers of color let a white editor know how he’d contributed to racism in the publishing industry, and how he could do better.

*Because it’s such a sensitive topic, many people interpret any mention of racism as a conflict *– and this discussion was no different.

The editor’s friends immediately rallied to his defense, saying, “He doesn’t have a racist bone in his body!”

But nobody had even said this man was “a racist.” We simply pointed out that his actions had a harmful impact – and his being a good person wouldn’t make that impact vanish.

*If you’re **called out** for racism and you take it as a personal attack on your character, you’re making the situation all about you – not the bigger picture of how all of us can take responsibility for our own role in white supremacy.*

Your belief that someone “doesn’t have a racist bone in their body” can lead you to overlook the _impact _of what they’ve done and focus instead on their _intentions._

In other words, you’re oversimplifying the issue, separating yourself from “the bad guys” and saying good people can’t possibly do something wrong.

Unfortunately, good people contribute to white supremacy every day – and if you can’t face the ways white supremacy influences your life, you’ll never be able to change it. That means you’ve got to stop focusing on your good nature and intentions, which has you prioritizing your feelings over people of color’s pain.​


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## bgrouse (Jun 3, 2018)

fncceo said:


> cnm said:
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> > fncceo said:
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I skimmed through her posts and couldn't even find what it is that happened to her or what she "experienced."


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## bgrouse (Jun 3, 2018)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *I guarantee that many whites here will stop reading this after they see the word whites. These are the same people who will read volumes of racist lies about blacks without fail. Yet as they don't they'll be more than glad to post their opinions too stupid to understand they are doing exactly what the writer says.*
> ...


Do stupid negroes like this understand that many white people, you know, the ones who work for a living and take care of themselves (unlike black welfare recipients), don't give much of a shit about his "problems?"


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## John Shaw (Jun 3, 2018)

Yet another classic from IM2.

Remember; if you're white, you can't win. If you talk about race IN ANY WAY, you're a racist. If you don't talk about race at all, you're in denial and are therefore an instrument of the patriarchy ... I mean, the system of racial oppression, or whatever. Sorry; got my victimhood religious texts mixed up there for a second.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Jun 3, 2018)

bgrouse said:


> Do stupid negroes like this understand that many white people, you know, the ones who work for a living and take care of themselves (unlike black welfare recipients), don't give much of a shit about his "problems?"


Whose problems would those be?


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

John Shaw said:


> Yet another classic from IM2.
> 
> Remember; if you're white, you can't win. If you talk about race IN ANY WAY, you're a racist. If you don't talk about race at all, you're in denial and are therefore an instrument of the patriarchy ... I mean, the system of racial oppression, or whatever. Sorry; got my victimhood religious texts mixed up there for a second.





2,000 posts by whites dissing us and when we try showing how we can have a decent discussion we get the stupid. You don't talk abut race, you condemn blacks for things you believe that aren't true.


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## cnm (Jun 3, 2018)

fncceo said:


> By definition, any reaction apart from total silence occasionally punctuated with 'That's dreadful', would be 'whitesplaining'.


Feel free to pretend you have not demonstrated a double standard in which black grievances are of no worth while white grievances are valid.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> I see your point, but I don't think I can completely agree with all you say. Trust me. This isn't an effort to be confrontational, but just an effort to better understand your beliefs and you perhaps understanding mine. I guess a person saying they don't see you as black could mean that they think you might somehow be better than their perception of what a black person is, (an obvious insult)  but more likely it's just a clumsy way of saying your race is not an issue. I don't understand why that would offend you. Please explain.



I think it's real important to read the entire article and not just the part I posted.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > I see your point, but I don't think I can completely agree with all you say. Trust me. This isn't an effort to be confrontational, but just an effort to better understand your beliefs and you perhaps understanding mine. I guess a person saying they don't see you as black could mean that they think you might somehow be better than their perception of what a black person is, (an obvious insult)  but more likely it's just a clumsy way of saying your race is not an issue. I don't understand why that would offend you. Please explain.
> ...



I did read it.


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## Erinwltr (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*
> 
> ...



A very long winded post.  What is your point?


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## protectionist (Jun 3, 2018)

cnm said:


> Feel free to pretend you have not demonstrated a double standard in which black grievances are of no worth while white grievances are valid.


This would be a great post, if it was exactly opposite of the reality.


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## protectionist (Jun 3, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> I did read it.


You are one of 2 who did (out of the 50,000 who could have)


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


> IM2 said:
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> 
> > This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> ...



Did you read the link?

Since when did adults start having attention spans of 2 seconds? Or is it that if I posted something negative about blacks that you'd read it if it was a book?

If you read the whole article and can't figure out what it meant, you need help.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

protectionist said:


> BULLDOG said:
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> > I did read it.
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If you didn't read it then you really don't have anything to say. Therefore each time you post from now on I will report you for trolling.


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## BULLDOG (Jun 3, 2018)

protectionist said:


> BULLDOG said:
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> > I did read it.
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No big deal. I've even read one or two of your links.


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## protectionist (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> If you didn't read it then you really don't have anything to say. Therefore each time you post from now on I will report you for trolling.


Did you read my Post # 21 ? - or should I report you ?  Watch out! ..... there could be a quiz.


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## protectionist (Jun 3, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> No big deal. I've even read one or two of your links.


Try Post # 21.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
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Do we get a link to all this imaginary stuff?


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
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> > If you didn't read it then you really don't have anything to say. Therefore each time you post from now on I will report you for trolling.
> ...



I'm the OP. Not you. And your post is off topic.


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## Erinwltr (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Erinwltr said:
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  I admit I might need help, but not yours.  "Whitesplain."  Total BS.  Get over yourself.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

fncceo said:


> IM2 said:
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> > It’s incredibly frustrating to share my experiences with racism
> ...



That is a post from another thread. Try talking about the subject of this one.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Erinwltr said:


> IM2 said:
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Whitesplaining is your problem. Learn to stop doing it.


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## Erinwltr (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Erinwltr said:
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Wrong on so many levels.  Nice chatting with you.


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## there4eyeM (Jun 3, 2018)

This new "word" will be one that will not be included in my vocabulary. It is totally unclear and unneeded. Words already exist to express the situation and synthetic babble is not necessary. 
There is one race. I repeat, there is one human race. Let's get that through everyone's head first, let's "racesplain", then deal with the few, dedicated idiots who want to continue trying to divide us. 
By the definition of racism put forth here, it is impossible to extricate what are just life's challenges that any person encounters from those imposed by some concept of "racial discrimination". Were those 'black' kids who threw stones at me "racist"? The act was, but they were clearly victims of programming. Little kids don't throw stones at strangers unless poisoned by provocateurs. So, do I blame 'blacks', or do I blame inhuman programmers?


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Jun 3, 2018)

protectionist said:


> Yes! Important tor read THIS entire article >>>
> Black privilege manifests itself in numerous forms:
> [snipped]


The United States is 241 years old.  For all but the last 54 to 60 years which is roughly about 80% of the time that the country has been in existence, it was *legally *under white domination.  Discrimination by whites against blacks - in schools, in housing, in jobs, EVERYWHERE was friggin *LEGAL.
*
If you're having a race and some of the contestants are placed 80% further down the field from the starting line than the others, you don't think they have an advantage?  And if the rules allow cheating by the race that starts 80% from the starting line but disqualifies the opposite race for engaging in the same behavior, do you not think that as well will cause an advantage for one and a disadvantage for the other?*
*
If you are still unable to grasp the implications of this simple fact then research the former system of apartheid in South Africa.  The U.S. was essentially no different except that in South Africa it was a minority white race once again imposing it's will on the majority black population.  And the system only lasted a little less than 50 years.

*Apartheid* (South African English: /əˈpɑːrteɪd/; Afrikaans: [aˈpartɦəit], lit. "separateness") was a system of institutionalised racial segregation and discrimination that existed in South Africa from 1948 until the early 1990s.[note 1] Apartheid was characterised by an authoritarian political culture based on _baasskap_ (or white supremacy), which encouraged state repression of Black African, Coloured, and Asian South Africans for the benefit of the nation's minority white population.[4] The economic legacy and social effects of apartheid have continued to present day.[5][6][7]

Broadly speaking, apartheid was delineated into _petty apartheid_, which entailed the segregation of public facilities and social events, and _grand apartheid_, which dictated housing and employment opportunities by race.[8] Prior to the 1940s, some aspects of apartheid had already emerged in the form of minority rule by white South Africans and the socially enforced separation of black South Africans from other races, which later extended to pass laws and land apportionment.[9][10] Apartheid was adopted as a formal policy by the South African government after the ascension of the National Party (NP) during the country's 1948 general elections.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid​


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## protectionist (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Do we get a link to all this imaginary stuff?


You link is go out in the street and communicate with whites.  That's how conservatives present links. With real life. (rather than a concoction "study" from some liberal university)


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## there4eyeM (Jun 3, 2018)

Over 50% of the population has spent the greater part of human existence under the domination of men. Not too many lesser problems will be resolved before that is.


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## protectionist (Jun 3, 2018)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> If you're having a race and some of the contestants are placed 80% further down the field from the starting line than the others, you don't think they have an advantage?


Yup. The blacks have the advantage. No question.  That's why Affirmative  Action needs to be banned in ALL 50 STATES, instead of just the 8 states where it's banned now.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
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> > Do we get a link to all this imaginary stuff?
> ...



Done that for 57 years. Show the link.


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## protectionist (Jun 3, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> Over 50% of the population has spent the greater part of human existence under the domination of men. Not too many lesser problems will be resolved before that is.


That's mainly because women get pregnant, have babies, care for infants and toddlers, and all of this locates them IN THE HOME, while men are out in industry and govt, doing THOSE things.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> Over 50% of the population has spent the greater part of human existence under the domination of men. Not too many lesser problems will be resolved before that is.



No excuses.


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## protectionist (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Done that for 57 years. Show the link.


You already got it - for 57 years, and you knowevry bit of it (inside out)​


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## there4eyeM (Jun 3, 2018)

Correct; no excuses will be accepted before that condition changes.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> Correct; no excuses will be accepted before that condition changes.



Then stop making excuses because that's why things don't change.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
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> > Done that for 57 years. Show the link.
> ...



Show the link


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## there4eyeM (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> there4eyeM said:
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> > Correct; no excuses will be accepted before that condition changes.
> ...


What is the excuse for focusing on the micro rather than the real problem?


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## protectionist (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Show the link


HA HA.   Liberals re unable to separate themselves form THEIR indoctrinated definition of "link" -(liberal "tudies" from liberal sources)


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> IM2 said:
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The real problem is people wanting to talk about how all of mankind while denying that mankind is doing here in our country right now. We can stop that, but when you talk about how its been part of mankind forever you allow people to deny the problem that exists NOW, here, in the country we live in.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

protectionist said:


> IM2 said:
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> > Show the link
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Yeah right, until you ask for a link. Scared to show you got your imaginary black privilege post from stormfront?


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## Mac1958 (Jun 3, 2018)

We'd be better off if whites stopped explaining/lecturing and we *all* got to the task of *communicating.*

That won't happen any time soon, of course, because (a) there are too many people on both ends who like things just the way they are, and (b) as a society we have simply lost the ability to communicate effectively.

Self-inflicted wound.  Oh well.
.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 3, 2018)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
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> > This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
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Struggles  like what? Opioid addiction and increasing suicide rates?


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Mac1958 said:


> We'd be better off if whites stopped explaining/lecturing and we *all* got to the task of *communicating.*
> 
> That won't happen any time soon, of course, because (a) there are too many people on both ends who like things just the way they are, and (b) as a society we have simply lost the ability to communicate effectively.
> 
> ...



I don't know about both ends but we do need to communicate.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)

*1. You Think I’ve Got a Fact Wrong (‘Actually…’)*

*Because of white supremacy, many white people – especially white men, who are also **influenced by patriarchy** – have been conditioned to speak over other people and **dominate spaces**.

And then you might do one of the most irritating forms of whitesplaining – assuming a person of color just doesn’t understand what’s going on.

I’ve experienced this too many times when white folks believe they know more about what I’ve been through than I do – through secondhand information or just their own wild guesses.

Talking with me about issues that affect my community means you have limits – you don’t have a lifetime of firsthand experience.

2. You Think My Feelings Are Wrong (‘Be Objective, It’s Not That Bad…’)

I’m upset, you’re confused, and the difference between our reactions isn’t just a matter of my being “oversensitive.” It’s a matter of privilege: You can learn about racism through secondhand sources, while I’ve directly experienced racism my entire life.

So it’s not up to you to decide what I should be offended by.

The truth is that you’re just as biased as anyone else – your perspective is influenced by your own experiences and position of privilege. That also gives you a biased point of view on what “objectivity” means.

3. You’re Concerned About My Approach (‘I Think What You Mean Is…’)

Whitesplainers are supposedly full of concern when they say I’d be better off, or a better advocate for racial justice, if I just said or did things differently.

For instance, have you ever felt the need to point out that a person of color was “generalizing” white people when they talked about racism?

If I say, “White people talk over me,” you might jump in with: “Not all white people. More people would listen to you if you didn’t generalize.”

Except there’s actually a problem with rushing to say that “not all white people” are part of the problem of white supremacy.

If I focused on reassuring every white person that they’re not personally responsible, then nobody would get the chance to examine how they might contribute .

Your attempt to make sure I get the right message across may come from a good place. But the thing is – and do forgive me if this comes across as “generalizing” – people who whitesplain so often get things wrong, or at the very least, they miss the point.

4. You Think You or Someone Else Is Being Falsely Accused (‘But I’m Not a Racist!’)

Speaking of derailments – when I’m talking about a racist act, I don’t have much interest in whether or not the person responsible is “a racist.”

When it comes to things like holding implicit biases and benefiting from white privilege, the question of whether or not someone is intentionally bigoted is completely irrelevant.

If you’re called out for racism and you take it as a personal attack on your character, you’re making the situation all about you – not the bigger picture of how all of us can take responsibility for our own role in white supremacy.

5. You Heard Another Person of Color Say Something Different (‘That’s Not What I Heard…’)

Listening to people of color is a great way to learn about racism. But please don’t just carry our quotes around like weapons to use against other marginalized folks.

Too many white people use this tactic to tell us that we’re wrong about racism – citing the Native friend who doesn’t mind cultural appropriation, or the Black celebrity who disagrees with Black Lives Matter protesters.

Or people like Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Ben Carson, etc.

For one thing, Black people are not a monolith. We’re allowed to disagree. And your whiteness doesn’t grant you the authority to determine which one of us is right.

6. You Want Me to Stop Talking About Racism (‘You’re Being So Divisive’)

Let’s face it – there are several excuses for whitesplaining, from hurt feelings to so-called “concern,” but many people who whitesplain do it simply because they don’t want me to talk about race.

“You’re being divisive.” “We should be uniting.” “There’s no such thing as race – we’re all human!”

Whitesplaining is particularly dangerous when it’s used to shut down conversation and action against racism.*


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

If a post with a link showing that information posted here is from stormfront gets deleted, then the post that contains the stormfront information needs to be deleted also.


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## Taz (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*
> 
> ...


You're not wrong, you're delusional.


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## cnm (Jun 3, 2018)

protectionist said:


> This would be a great post, if it was exactly opposite of the reality.


fncceo made two posts at different times. In one he said IM2's experiences of racism were not valid. In the other he expected his experiences of bigotry to be taken seriously. A clear double standard.

edit...That standard informed by his whiteness.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Taz said:


> IM2 said:
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> > This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
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That would be you.


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## Tresha91203 (Jun 3, 2018)

protectionist said:


> there4eyeM said:
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> > Over 50% of the population has spent the greater part of human existence under the domination of men. Not too many lesser problems will be resolved before that is.
> ...



Mansplaining.


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## Tresha91203 (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> there4eyeM said:
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> > Over 50% of the population has spent the greater part of human existence under the domination of men. Not too many lesser problems will be resolved before that is.
> ...



Get in line.

Your oppression is not more valid or important than mine, not to me or most women.


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## sparky (Jun 3, 2018)




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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Tresha91203 said:


> IM2 said:
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It is when white women played into the racism.  Ask Emmitt Till. So then you step back.

*White Women and Racial Complicity*

To be a white woman in America is to be precariously power-adjacent: Because of our skin, we carry unquestioned privilege in power systems. Because of our gender, that security has a shelf life—we are included only as long as we are able or willing to perform according to those who control the levers.

It’s a dangerous charade, one so deeply internalized it often goes unexamined. Our history indicates that when white women want agency, we often go to white men—even when they are the source of our exclusion, or even if we have to sell out others along the way. In the wake of the 15th Amendment granting black men the right to vote, suffragists including Carrie Chapman Catt, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and Laura Clay made their case for the white woman vote by appealing to white supremacy. In January, a new book revealed that Carolyn Bryant, the white woman who accused Emmett Till of touching her in 1955, had lied.

White women in America face a deficit of trust uniquely of our own making.

White Women and Racial Complicity

*A Short History of White Women’s Complicity*
*Mothers of Massive Resistance: White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy by Elizabeth Gillespie McRae*

_In Mothers of Massive Resistance: White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy,_ historian Elizabeth Gillespie McRae makes a strong argument for white women’s vital role in protecting and perpetuating white supremacy and thwarting integration in the US. One hundred years ago, woman began to organize in ways that we would recognize from today’s resistance movements. They developed grassroots campaigns reaching out to other women and encouraging them to organize, to write letters, to publish, to speak up and to vote. They did this, however, in the name of Jim Crow, as a way to shore up white power in the face of legislation that would dismantle it. McRae demonstrates how white women, not just in the South but across the nation, turned their traditional roles as mothers, defenders of family and children, tellers of stories, and activists in schools into a political force that sustained racism, reshaped American conservatism, and continues to influence our politics and culture. 

McRae’s goal is to demonstrate that the “fiercest proponents” of massive resistance to desegregation and racial integration in 20th century America were “…the daily grassroots activists who continually reshaped their support for various versions of racial segregation.” These diehard activists were largely white women who used their special roles in social welfare, public education, electoral politics and popular culture to keep the spirit of Jim Crow alive even when its legal basis had been removed by the Supreme Court and the federal government.  She divides the book into two parts and a conclusion. Part I is entitled “Massive Support for Racial Segregation, 1920-1941”, Part II is “Massive Resistance to the Black Freedom Struggle, 1942-1974,” and the conclusion is “The New National Face of Segregation: Boston Women Against Busing.”

A Short History of White Women’s Complicity

Check yourself woman. White women owned slaves, white women participated in Jim Crow nationwide. White women lied about black men and they were killed by those who you say oppressed you. You married your oppressors and when he died, you inherited your oppressors money/property if he had any.  You married your oppressor and if you got divorced, you got half of what your oppressor had. So step back trying to come  me like that lady. Humble yourself and know your history.

Because this is part of it.

*Emmett Till's Accuser: I Made It Up*


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## Tresha91203 (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Tresha91203 said:
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According to you and your sources, ALL white people, even those with no power, contribute to white supremacy by merely existing here in America. Consequently, every person of colour is a victim at birth. As a woman in America, I call that B.S.. Our struggle has been worldwide and is being lost in much of the world.

Humans dominate whichever group they can. Black people oppress others when given the opportunity. Women dominate when given the opportunity. Life is a power struggle on every level, every relationship. The struggle ends when one submits or both negotiate bounds in some way (compromise).

You are not uniquely oppressed. You are not even oppressed worse than or more than others. People of color voted before women, the men anyway, in the US. Wives and daughters are chattel in a lot of the world. Honor killings, beatings, body shaming (burkas, hijabs, etc), being sold to men as wives, pay gaps even in Western countries, sexual harassment, etc.

If you would focus on illegal acts or changing laws, that would be one thing. It is a whole other thing to claim white people's existence in the US is racist (contributes to white supremacy) by default. That is no more true than, "The existence of men oppresses me!" It is an obvious way to shut down any discussion and to shame white people for breathing.

My existence on this planet somehow contributes to your victimhood; therefore, I need to modify my behavior. Sounds like a man telling me what to do and how to feel. Feels to me like I am being put in my place again. I bet you'd pat my head while mansplaining your whitesplaining grievances.


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## John Shaw (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> John Shaw said:
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> 
> > Yet another classic from IM2.
> ...



No I don't. Maybe if people were a little more fair and specific with their grievances, rather than proclaim that everything under the sun is symptomatic of a racist, discriminatory system (rarely coming up with any solutions that aren't downright preposterous, I might add), then maybe more serious, helpful white people would be more willing to engage in race-related discussions. Otherwise, it is just a lose-lose proposition. A doomed voyage from the outset. Kinda like discussing sex/gender with a feminist as a male. Why would you bother? They are going to find some reason to attack you regardless of what you say.


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## bgrouse (Jun 3, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


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NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > Do stupid negroes like this understand that many white people, you know, the ones who work for a living and take care of themselves (unlike black welfare recipients), don't give much of a shit about his "problems?"
> ...



White people run the country, you clowns. Say thanks the USA isn't a shithole like one of the negro-run, negro-populated African shitholes.


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## bgrouse (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> White women owned slaves


Oh, so _that's_ your experience. Something that literally *never happened to you*. How awful!


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## PredFan (Jun 3, 2018)

Whitesplaining, just as Mansplaining, is a completely made up word by the left to shut down discussion that they don't agree with. Call it whatever you want to, the reason I have to explain anything is because you are too fucking stupid to figure it out yourself. Calling me names won't stop me loser.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 3, 2018)

Tresha91203 said:


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Agreed. It's an insult to men in general  The words of a misogynist.


bgrouse said:


> katsteve2012 said:
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A small percentage of white people are in positions as lawmakers and job creators.  

The average white person doesn't run anything except their own household. 
Just like most other people, no.matter what race they are.

Most people  that I know, do thank the USA, by being a tax paying citizen.


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## bgrouse (Jun 3, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Tresha91203 said:
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And a bigger percentage are skilled workers who don't put a drain on the system by murdering.

13% of our population is black, with blacks committing over half the murders. They're useless as a race. A net drain on society. That's why negro countries suck.


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## John Shaw (Jun 3, 2018)

bgrouse said:


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How about, no?


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## LOIE (Jun 3, 2018)

bgrouse said:


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I just read this in a book by Tim Wise. It is very interesting and speaks to your very common attitude:  
"Indeed, even cash welfare – created as part of the 1935 Social Security Act – was originally supported as a way to help white women whose husband had died or left home to look for work during the Depression. Interesting isn’t it? Cash welfare was originally conceived on these grounds: as a way to foster benign dependence on the state. And virtually no one balked. But as soon as women of color gained access to the same benefits, those programs came to be seen as the cause of all that was wrong with the poor. They made you lazy, encouraged you to have babies out of wedlock and needed to be cut back, perhaps even eliminated.

Doesn’t it seem convenient that growing opposition to government intervention in the economy, the housing market and the job market and other aspects of American life parallels almost directly the racialization of social policy, and the increasing association in the white mind between such efforts and handouts to the undeserving “other?” That people who had long reaped the benefits of big government simply came to a deeper understanding of the inherent dangers of such a thing, only AFTER they had ridden the wave of such benefits for generations? No, the backlash against government was directly related to the increasingly common belief that “those people” were abusing the programs."


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## there4eyeM (Jun 3, 2018)

So, countries run by the people identified in post 65 "suck"? We can only imagine the criteria upon which this assertion is based. Nevertheless, let's see if we can put some comparisons out there and see what "suck" may look like. 
Stalin's Russia.
Hitler's Germany.
Franco's Spain
Chiang Kai Shek's China
Mao Tse Tong's China
Hirohito's Japan
Pinochet's Chile
Sukarno's Indonesia
Saddam's Iraq
Il's North Korea
Amin's Uganda
Asad's Syria
Gadaffi's Libya

Sure, we could continue, but does anyone see a particular pattern to human mis-government, other than that ruthless authoritarianism by men happens everywhere?


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## bgrouse (Jun 3, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> bgrouse said:
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> > NewsVine_Mariyam said:
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White women are not a net drain on society.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

PredFan said:


> Whitesplaining, just as Mansplaining, is a completely made up word by the left to shut down discussion that they don't agree with. Call it whatever you want to, the reason I have to explain anything is because you are too fucking stupid to figure it out yourself. Calling me names won't stop me loser.



That's exactly what it's not.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> bgrouse said:
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Wise consistently talks to the general obliviousness of whites to the issue of race. And USMB shows that Wise is correct about the constant nature of it and the modern ability of whites to remain blind.


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## MaryL (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*
> 
> ...





IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*
> 
> ...


I don't see you as black so much as a bloody deluded troll fixated on race. So, I hope that clarifies everything.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
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> > This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> ...



This is  the race and racism section. I am appropriately discussing the topics allowed to be discussed here. Seems that you racist whites have a problem with that because I'm not kissing your white asses. Truth is not deluded. It boils down to the fact that you can't face the truth. So, I hope that clarifies everything. Because all you are doing is validating the OP just like all the rest of you have done. As I  predicted:

*I guarantee that many whites here will stop reading this after they see the word whites. These are the same people who will read volumes of racist lies about blacks without fail. Yet as they don't they'll be more than glad to post their opinions too stupid to understand they are doing exactly what the writer says.*


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## MaryL (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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You are rather neurotic and confused on this issue. But you condemn others for the same neurosis.The proverbial  pot calling the kettle....ya know. Have a nice day.


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## John Shaw (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Delores Paulk said:
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There is no reason for a white person to even discuss race, just as there is no reason for a man to discuss gender equality. Their opinions are not actually wanted anyway. Better to just leave it well alone.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

John Shaw said:


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There are plenty of whites and men whose opinions are accepted. The problem is with the racist and sexist opinions.


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## bgrouse (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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Tell us some more about your "experience" with slavery.


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## NewsVine_Mariyam (Jun 3, 2018)

bgrouse said:


> Tell us some more about your "experience" with slavery.


The legislative bondage described below was not officially ended until the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was enacted which is during my lifetime and going by IM2's stated age would be during his lifetime as well.

*slavery*
[sley-vuh-ree, sleyv-ree]  
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun

the condition of a slave; *** bondage***.
the keeping of slaves as a* practice or institution* ("legislative bondage" in the form of Jim Crow laws and Black Codes after "physical bondage" aka "slavery" was abolished.).
*bondage*
[bon-dij]
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun

slavery or involuntary servitude; serfdom.
*the state of being bound by or subjected to some external power or control*.(again, "legislative bondage" in the form of Jim Crow laws and Black Codes after "physical bondage" aka "slavery" was abolished).


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## bgrouse (Jun 3, 2018)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> bgrouse said:
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> > Tell us some more about your "experience" with slavery.
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EVERYBODY is bound by some external power or control! That's how it is in a modern civilization. By that definition, everybody is a slave.


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## IM2 (Jun 3, 2018)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> bgrouse said:
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> ...



Amen. Bgrouse is a racist idiot and all he has is the same standard lame ass excuses. Maybe he can explain his experience with freeing America from Britain come the 4th of July.


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## bgrouse (Jun 3, 2018)

IM2 said:


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I don't have any experience with that, you idiot. I live in the real world where I don't pretend to have "experienced" something that occurred before I was born.


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## PredFan (Jun 5, 2018)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Whitesplaining, just as Mansplaining, is a completely made up word by the left to shut down discussion that they don't agree with. Call it whatever you want to, the reason I have to explain anything is because you are too fucking stupid to figure it out yourself. Calling me names won't stop me loser.
> ...



Bull shit. I’m exactly right.


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## PredFan (Jun 5, 2018)

John Shaw said:


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Just like whiteplaining and mansplaining, this stupidity is just a rule made up entirely by the left. I don’t have to follow that nonsense nor is it a valid point or rule. It’s just complete bull shit made up to halt any opposing views.


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## MarcATL (Jun 5, 2018)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> This is an excellent article, thank you for posting it
> 
> ...when I’m talking about a racist act, I don’t have much interest in whether or not the person responsible is “a racist.”
> 
> ...


Powerful!


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## MarcATL (Jun 5, 2018)

John Shaw said:


> Yet another classic from IM2.
> 
> Remember; if you're white, you can't win. If you talk about race IN ANY WAY, you're a racist. If you don't talk about race at all, you're in denial and are therefore an instrument of the patriarchy ... I mean, the system of racial oppression, or whatever. Sorry; got my victimhood religious texts mixed up there for a second.


Sounds like you feel like you're under attack. Why do you feel like someone is attacking you?


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## MarcATL (Jun 5, 2018)

IM2 said:


> 6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)
> 
> *1. You Think I’ve Got a Fact Wrong (‘Actually…’)*
> 
> ...


POWERFUL!!!


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## IM2 (Jun 5, 2018)

PredFan said:


> John Shaw said:
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You whites do this all the time. That's why the term whitesplaining exists.


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## MarcATL (Jun 5, 2018)

IM2 said:


> It is when white women played into the racism.  Ask Emmitt Till. So then you step back.
> 
> *White Women and Racial Complicity*
> 
> ...


Man.....!!!


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## IM2 (Jun 5, 2018)

Tresha91203 said:


> IM2 said:
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Wrong.  And you don't want talk about laws or policy. That's been my main argument from day 1.   Now you aren't going to get mercy from me as long as you try  playing both sides. White men oppressed while women, but white women joined him in oppressing others. What you feel is your problem. Because even as you are here whining, white women are still participating in the  racism against people of color. You are here whitesplaining while at the same time crying about mansplaining that's not happening to you in this debate.

*The Women Behind White Power*

Few Americans know the name Cornelia Dabney Tucker, but the Jim Crow South would not have been the same without her.

After the Supreme Court issued its 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education, ending public-school segregation, Senator James Eastland, the cigar-smoking chairman of the Senate Judicial Committee, turned to Mrs. Tucker to help aid him in his two-pronged assault on the decision. While Mr. Eastland wielded his chairmanship to counter civil rights, delaying, for example, the 1967 vote to confirm Thurgood Marshall, the first black Supreme Court justice, he counted on Mrs. Tucker to organize grass-roots opposition. And organize she did: She marched outside the court, wrote letters and lobbied legislators, civic organizations, women’s groups and conservative coalitions to protest an “activist” judicial branch. All the while, she modeled how to emphasize issues like constitutional overreach and the “alarming march of communism” while playing down racial segregation.

Mr. Eastland today is remembered as one of the country’s leading opponents to integration; until 2012, the law library at the University of Mississippi was named after him. Mrs. Tucker, however, has faded into history.

An element of surprise still animates discussions about white women supporting white supremacist politics. In part, it’s because the narrative of white supremacist history in the United States is not immune to the same sexist forces that have shaped so many of our national historical narratives: It has left out the women. And that has consequences for how we think about these politics today.

In minimizing the grass-roots work of women, the framing of white supremacist politics was no different. Just as Ms. Robinson and Ms. Gilmore led the 1955-56 boycott of buses in Alabama, in the 1970s, women like Louise Day Hicks led the antibusing crusades in the North, in an effort to avoid the desegregation of Boston public schools. While men debated in legislative chambers and listened to challenges on the bench, women headed to school cafeterias, playgrounds and PTA meetings, doing the bulk of the behind-the-scenes work of supporting the politics of segregation.

White women organized precinct gatherings to pressure their politicians to uphold Jim Crow laws. They transformed their homes into centers of bureaucratic efficiency — copying fliers, assigning neighborhoods for petition drives and scheduling protest shifts at elementary schools and bus garages.

It was also women who shaped the way segregation, white supremacy and ideas about racial identity were knitted into the fabric of their communities. Working as midwives, teachers and social workers, women policed the racial identity of babies, students and clients to ensure that the dividing line between white and black remained intact. And across the nation, women-led groups like Patriotic American Youth and the Women for Constitutional Government and Pro America spread the message to the next generation that opposition to racial equality was about states’ rights and limited government, not white supremacy.

But this broader narrative obscures and even gives cover to the ways white women sometimes used white supremacy for their own gain. The suffragist Carrie Chapman Catt in the early 20th century argued for women’s voting rights in Southern states on the basis that “white supremacy will be strengthened, not weakened, by white women’s suffrage.” In the 1920s, the journalist Nell Battle Lewis of North Carolina never questioned the absolute need for racial segregation even as she criticized the violence committed in the name of Jim Crow. Staying in the racial fold, she was afforded the opportunity to blast her state’s regressive labor and gender politics. Being a white supremacist, even a liberal one, meant that she remained part of the conversation.

The point, here, is neither to catalog nor to celebrate white women’s contributions to white supremacist politics. Instead, their work should change how we understand history. It is easy to denounce the racist pronouncements and white-supremacist politics of a George Wallace or a Roy Moore. But what white women teach us is that white-supremacist politics is sustained at a much more grass-roots level by our neighbors, school boards and even friends. White women have made white supremacy a much more formidable and long-lasting force in American society, sustaining it at both the local and national levels.

Opinion | The Women Behind White Power

*Inside the Lives of White Supremacist Women*
*And why their numbers are growing.*

White supremacists may believe the country belongs to white men, but it's an increasing number of white_ women_ who are fighting for the cause, says Kathleen Blee, University of Pittsburgh sociology professor and author of _Inside Organized Racism: Women in the Hate Movement_. The movement appears to be growing overall—the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), which tracks hate groups and their activity, tallied a 48% increase in membership over the last 15 years, and estimates that of the 892 hate groups in the U.S. today, most are dedicated to white supremacy.

Female White Supremacists in America - How Woman Racists Live

Drop the white victimization.


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## PredFan (Jun 5, 2018)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
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Do what all the time? Debunk your racist lies?


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## IM2 (Jun 5, 2018)

PredFan said:


> IM2 said:
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You've debunked nothing.


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## John Shaw (Jun 5, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > Yet another classic from IM2.
> ...



There you go, pointing the finger at me when I haven't even done or said anything. 

Like I said, can't win. Might as well just stay silent.


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## IM2 (Jun 5, 2018)

John Shaw said:


> MarcATL said:
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Poor sad oppressed white man. He can't make his racist comments without opposition anymore so now he thinks he can't win. Maybe learn to talk abut race accurately? Because there are whites here who do talk about race that don't get what you do.


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## John Shaw (Jun 5, 2018)

IM2 said:


> John Shaw said:
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Lmao. IM2 calling anyone racist. Classic stuff.

How do you know that they're white?


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## John Shaw (Jun 5, 2018)

IM2 said:


> John Shaw said:
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Oh, and while you're explaining how you magically know someone's race from the internet (no, Donald Trump did not invent the art of the lie, btw), explain to me ...

why should any white person discuss race at all, in any capacity? As far as I'm concerned, there is no advantage in it, other than to spread hate or to troll. We benefit more from not saying anything about the subject and not responding when provoked.


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## IM2 (Jun 5, 2018)

John Shaw said:


> IM2 said:
> 
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It's pretty easy to tell you are white. The rest of your post shows why. So if you think whites have no reason to  talk about race that means you shut your fucking mouths up with your opinions about blacks. Because that's what spreads hate and you whites are the ones here rolling.


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## IM2 (Jun 5, 2018)

John Shaw said:


> IM2 said:
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Post up a racist quote I have made.


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## John Shaw (Jun 5, 2018)

IM2 said:


> John Shaw said:
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You're clearly the one who wants to talk about it. How many threads have you started on this board? Lol.

The only white people who want to talk about race are idiots and racists. The normal ones realize there is no point and no advantage for them.

It's the same as arguing with feminists. You can, and you can make them look ridiculous if they don't know what they're talking about (most do not), but why bother? They're not going to change their minds anyway, and you're likely to come away from the encounter looking like an asshole to the ordinary person who doesn't understand how terrible the statistics supporting things like the wage gap and rape culture are, regardless of how right you may be. There is no INCENTIVE, no advantage to discussing these subjects as a member of the "majority" group. I guess feminists and black civil rights activists must get something out of it, but males and whites sure as hell do not.


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## IM2 (Jun 5, 2018)

John Shaw said:


> IM2 said:
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There are over 4,000 threads in this section. So don't make yourself look silly by making comments not based in fact. The only reason why you're whining is because you don't get to freely run your mouths off with your racist claims about blacks. It is apparent what you are doing son, because you do not enter any thread made by a white person doing what you are here.


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## John Shaw (Jun 5, 2018)

IM2 said:


> John Shaw said:
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Racist claims about blacks? Lol? Where?

You'd be hard-pressed to find any, I'd bet. Probably because I don't generalize based upon race.  Nice try though. As usual with IM2, a swing and a miss.

And what am I doing here? Asking a simple question, one I thought would be quite easy for you to answer. Apparently it isn't, because you still haven't answered it. Why should any whites be willing to discuss race? What is in it for them?

Waiting ...


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## bgrouse (Jun 5, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > It is when white women played into the racism.  Ask Emmitt Till. So then you step back.
> ...


So what exactly does some kid who has been dead over half a century have to do with current events?


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## IM2 (Jun 5, 2018)

John Shaw said:


> IM2 said:
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I'm not answering your questions. Why? Because there are over 4,000 threads here full of whites commenting about race.

Secondly you do not enter any threads by whites doing what you are here, but you have entered several threads by blacks doing it.

So keep waiting.


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## Moonglow (Jun 5, 2018)

bgrouse said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
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Inflamation of emotions.


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## Dale Smith (Jun 6, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*
> 
> ...




Hmmm, seems that I am racist. Back before every man, woman and child had a cell-phone,  if I saw someone that was black stranded on the side of the road, I would stop. I know a little something about cars...always had jumper cables, a tool kit and a mini-hydraulic lift in the trunk....if they were white, I figured that their chances were much better of getting help than someone that was black.....pretty racist of me. 

When a Dallas judge declared that child free apartment complexes were unconstitutional and housing vouchers had to be given to poor black families (mostly single moms) we had some move into our condo complex....outside of a swimming pool? Not much for a kid to do. So, I bought  huge sheet of plywood, put a basketball goal and net on it. I drilled holes on the corners and put in hooks in the middle of the two designated parking spaces I had. Many times I would go out there and hang with them but mostly just put up the goal when I got home from work. It would be 4:30 or so and as soon as they saw my car, they would run up to me joyously calling my name "Mr.Smith! Mr.Smith! Are ya gonna put the goal up today and can you come out and play?" Same routine every day but it never got old and always put a smile on my face. We did that for a year when all of the sudden I found a note on my door by the condo association saying that my basketball goal over my own two damn designated parking spaces was in violation and was to cease immediately. A month prior, a young white couple moved in and had the parking spots two down from mine. I immediately suspected them and accused them.....how racist of me. Turns out it was a middle-aged black lady that belonged to the condo's board that complained because she didn't like the fact that she had to wait while we got out of her way. in order to get to her parking space. 

When football season rolled around, I won two tickets to a Cowboys-Raiders game complete with a helicopter ride to the stadium....just had to get to the Addison airport and they would supply the taxi ride after the game to get my car.....I choose a little black kid named Brandon. My son was too young to even know what football was and Brandon always wanted to go to a Cowboys game and I was going to take him in style. I had white male friends that would have bought me beer the entire game just for the shot of getting in and out of the stadium on a helicopter. Did I choose Brandon because he was black, had no male role model outside of me?...how racist and presumptuous of me to think that I might be the only chance he had to go to an NFL game as a kid, no?

Here is the kicker...when I dropped Brandon off, his mom gave me a hug and said "you know what I love about you? You don't see color"........but do I? Should I have been insulted for her thinking that I would?  Why is race-baiting so lame? Because it's just another means to divide people and keep them bickering with each other so that we never see the ones pulling the strings. My advice to you is BE you...be what you are inside and if it's good, it will shine through and make people around you feel blessed just for knowing you. If you walk around with a chip on your shoulder expecting people to walk on egg-shells and treat you special as a pay back for something that you personally never experienced and that they were not responsible for ANY WAY? They will avoid you, your negativity and ignore that "Victimhood" badge that weighs you down like an anchor.


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## IM2 (Jun 6, 2018)

Dale Smith said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> ...



Don't give me any advice. We are here in a race and racism discussion forum. And so what does your taking a black kid to a pro football game have to do with the damage to black communities created by 100 years of overt racist law and policy in Texas?


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## Natural Citizen (Jun 6, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*
> 
> ...



Racism is just a hateful form of collectivism where humans are seen as members of groups rather than Individuals. That's really all it is.

The solution is rather simple. Stop encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality. Ahem.


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## IM2 (Jun 6, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> ...



It's funny how those who have benefitted most from this collectivism now want claim how it needs to be stopped. Now that they control everything collectivism needs to go.


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## Natural Citizen (Jun 6, 2018)

IM2 said:


> It's funny how those who have benefitted most from this collectivism now want claim how it needs to be stopped. Now that they control everything collectivism needs to go.



Nobody benefits from collectivism. At least not political collectivism.

Obsession with racial group identity is intrinsintly racist, however. Take that whatever it might be worth to you.


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## IM2 (Jun 6, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > It's funny how those who have benefitted most from this collectivism now want claim how it needs to be stopped. Now that they control everything collectivism needs to go.
> ...



Seems that whites have benefitted from every type of collectivism there is.


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## PredFan (Jun 6, 2018)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Yeah, I did. Do I have to whitesplain it to you?


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## bgrouse (Jun 6, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


The only thing damaging black communities is the black people in them.


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## IsaacNewton (Jun 6, 2018)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> ...



Thanks for outing yourself, to the ignore dungeon for you David Puke.


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## bgrouse (Jun 6, 2018)

IsaacNewton said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Dumb liberal clowns don't like the truth, so they ignore.

See above!


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## IM2 (Jun 6, 2018)

PredFan said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



You've debunked nothing and no amount of any splaining  you do changes that fact..


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## MizMolly (Jun 6, 2018)

IM2 said:


> 6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)
> 
> *1. You Think I’ve Got a Fact Wrong (‘Actually…’)*
> 
> ...


How ironic, you think your blackness allows you to think you are always right.


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## MizMolly (Jun 6, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


What that woman did was horrendous. She is not the representative of all white women.


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## MizMolly (Jun 6, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Someone white discussing race, showing not all white people are racist or see color, and all you can do is reply negatively?


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## there4eyeM (Jun 7, 2018)

[/QUOTE]You whites do this all the time. That's why the term whitesplaining exists.[/QUOTE]

This is a racist statement. No one can honestly deny it. Do so at the risk to your credibility.

Some of us are sickened to our stomachs that so many of our fellow beings are so afflicted by the stupidity of bigotry and racism. Personally, I remember when, very young in the state I was born and raised, seeing not only separate water fountains and toilets for "Negroes" or "Non-whites", as the terms were then, but a rope across the beach to divide 'whites' from 'blacks'. My parents were certainly not 'liberals, and not highly educated. I can't remember any comments from them, when I was that age, about race at all. But, I very clearly remember that little boy, maybe six years old, looking at that division and just feeling deep down inside that it was wrong, sick. No one told me to feel that way. I didn't think I was 'superior' for feeling that way. In fact, there was nothing positive in the emotion. At that age, I had nowhere to put, no capacity to deal with what I was seeing and feeling. It was all bad. 
Every culture throughout history has, sooner or later, done to at least one other group what has been done to "black" people in America. It has been done to "black" people almost all over the world. I have never seen anything to adequately explain this phenomenon, but it is certainly not the exclusive practice of "whites". Racial discrimination is ignorance first because it ignores that there is only one race. It is stupid because it is counter productive to our highest nature. It is an insult to call a person racist. It is not a positive attribute. 
When you use the same speech that you accuse 'racists' of using, you cannot escape having the term fly back in your face.
This is a very polite way of telling the above quoted poster that he is lying to us and himself. If anyone is fooled, it is not we.


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## PredFan (Jun 7, 2018)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



That is what you liberals do. You make shit up. that's why reality never ever agrees with you. I quite clearly and effectively debunked your racist stupidity. Your lies can't change that fact.


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## IM2 (Jun 7, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> You whites do this all the time. That's why the term whitesplaining exists.





> This is a racist statement. No one can honestly deny it. Do so at the risk to your credibility.
> 
> Some of us are sickened to our stomachs that so many of our fellow beings are so afflicted by the stupidity of bigotry and racism. Personally, I remember when, very young in the state I was born and raised, seeing not only separate water fountains and toilets for "Negroes" or "Non-whites", as the terms were then, but a rope across the beach to divide 'whites' from 'blacks'. My parents were certainly not 'liberals, and not highly educated. I can't remember any comments from them, when I was that age, about race at all. But, I very clearly remember that little boy, maybe six years old, looking at that division and just feeling deep down inside that it was wrong, sick. No one told me to feel that way. I didn't think I was 'superior' for feeling that way. In fact, there was nothing positive in the emotion. At that age, I had nowhere to put, no capacity to deal with what I was seeing and feeling. It was all bad.
> Every culture throughout history has, sooner or later, done to at least one other group what has been done to "black" people in America. It has been done to "black" people almost all over the world. I have never seen anything to adequately explain this phenomenon, but it is certainly not the exclusive practice of "whites". Racial discrimination is ignorance first because it ignores that there is only one race. It is stupid because it is counter productive to our highest nature. It is an insult to call a person racist. It is not a positive attribute.
> ...



This is a sad excuse and that's all it is. Every culture has had murder too but no one excuses that. So you are fooled.

And the quote is not racist. You just whitesplained in this post.


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## IM2 (Jun 7, 2018)

PredFan said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...



You've debunked nothing. Because you can't.


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## there4eyeM (Jun 7, 2018)

IM2 said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> > You whites do this all the time. That's why the term whitesplaining exists.
> ...


Are you 'English language challenged', or simply obtuse? The quoted post was a statement, no excuses were made. When you make, or anyone makes, categorical negative statements about a race you have identified, you are being racist. What's your excuse?


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## squeeze berry (Jun 7, 2018)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


 u b blacksplaining n' sheeit


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## squeeze berry (Jun 7, 2018)

cnm said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > By definition, any reaction apart from total silence occasionally punctuated with 'That's dreadful', would be 'whitesplaining'.
> ...


 

let us know when black america takes responsibility for their own shortcomings instead of blaming mean ole whitey


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## there4eyeM (Jun 7, 2018)

Guess we should just stop feeding the troll.


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## bgrouse (Jun 7, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...


He wuz egypshun 'n sheeit. Bak when dey waz kangz.


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## LOIE (Jun 7, 2018)

bgrouse said:


> EVERYBODY is bound by some external power or control


Have to disagree. We are, in some limited sense, I suppose, controlled by laws and those in power. We are not, however, BOUND. We have freedoms within those limits - sort of like a train that has to stay on the track. It can go as far as the track will take it. Slavery does not allow for any sort of freedom - not freedom of movement - not freedom of expression - not freedom of thought - not freedom of decision.


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## LOIE (Jun 7, 2018)

John Shaw said:


> why should any white person discuss race at all, in any capacity?


As a white person, my reason s to share insights I have gained from being inter racially married. White folks who are open to hearing other people's experiences might learn something from mine.


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## LOIE (Jun 7, 2018)

bgrouse said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Because like Faulkner said, "The past is never dead - it isn't even past."


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## Correll (Jun 7, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*
> 
> ...





Dismissing the opinions of people based on their skin color, which is what you are doing,

is not only condescending, and paternalistic, but also quite racist.



I said before that we cannot have a conversation on race, because all you lefties want to do is lecture white people about how everything is our fault.


And we are done with that shit. 


Get back to me when you are ready to listen, instead of just lecture me like an ill mannered and stupid child.


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## bgrouse (Jun 7, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > MarcATL said:
> ...


Then get Faulkner to give you your reparations.


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## MizMolly (Jun 7, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > why should any white person discuss race at all, in any capacity?
> ...


Look at any of IM2's posts. He doesn't want to discuss race, he wants to tell white people that he knows everything there is to know about blacks or whites. No matter what you say about your experiences, if you are white, you are racist. Nothing any white person says means anything to him, only his opinions and experiences count. If whites have a different opinion, experience or view of things, we are racist. We are told that whites today are responsible for reparations to blacks. Total bullshit.


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## Correll (Jun 7, 2018)

MizMolly said:


> Delores Paulk said:
> 
> 
> > John Shaw said:
> ...




And when I said that white people are done with being lectured to like that, 


he and Katestevie had a fit that I dared speak for White People.



As though anyone wants to be lectured like they are ill mannered children.


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## MaryL (Jun 7, 2018)

Blackspaining racism. Blacks attacking me because I am white, well, that deluded back hypocrisy is just human.  Slavery my ass. If some blacks can  work for NASA and calculate the orbit of planets, well why can't they realize they are each others biggest worst enemies as well? Do the math.


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## IM2 (Jun 7, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> cnm said:
> 
> 
> > fncceo said:
> ...



Whitey will be blamed for what whitey has done. Let me know when you stop lying to yourself.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jun 7, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Do you plan violence against whites, due to your seething hatred and racism?


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## IM2 (Jun 7, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



None of that exists within me. Opposing your racism isn't hate. And it's certainly not racism.


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## JBvM (Jun 7, 2018)

I.C. 4 members so far awarding you with those things. Funny: 3 Dale Smith, Markle, talksalot, and Winner Medal: 1 MarcATL

I do not know why they see it as they do, and I do not if any are black like you or what ideological seat on the spectrum they hold. But I must try and assure you, criticism is not always a terrible thing



IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*


I'd love to respond and all, but doing so could be construed as whitesplaining.

I guess it must be equally frustrating to realize one-sided conversations can ~ oops!

It’s incredibly frustrating to share my intellect and opinions, only to have a person obviously not as bright as me try to speak over me.


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## IM2 (Jun 7, 2018)

JBvM said:


> I.C. 4 members so far awarding you with those things. Funny: 3 Dale Smith, Markle, talksalot, and Winner Medal: 1 MarcATL
> 
> I do not know why they see it as they do, and I do not if any are black like you or what ideological seat on the spectrum they hold. But I must try and assure you, criticism is not always a terrible thing
> 
> ...



I'd certainly like to understand how whites can explain racism without trying to claim how blacks are racists too even as all we are doing is asking that the racism end. I would like it explained how whites can make claims of black racism without understanding how the way blacks have been treated and continue being treated by whites is not a contributing factor to why there might actually be blacks who don't like whites. i'd like it explained to me how whites here in particular, keep telling us how such racism is a thing of the past when we see it happen all the time now. How whites can ignore 200 years of preferential treatment by written law to pretend how they have never been preferred or protected. Why can whites ignore laws and policies made on purpose to deny opportunity and wealth for blacks then claim that blacks don't want to work and that poverty is the fault of blacks. I'd like it explained to me how whites organized and made crime corporate controlling the guns and drugs but blame blacks for criminality. I'd like it explained to me how whites have slaughtered millions yet blacks are blamed for being the most violent killers in this country. Let's start with these things.


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## JBvM (Jun 7, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Do you want to see me
> 
> I'd certainly like to understand how whites can explain racism without trying to claim how blacks are racists too even as all we are doing is asking that the racism end.


Do you want to see me "_explain racism without trying to claim how blacks are racists too_?" Done it many times. 

"_All we are doing is asking that the racism end._" If I were easily offended and defensive I'd attack you and that silly comment with a hysteria to match yours. But I see it for what it is: a disingenuous and divisive attempt at trying to speak openly and honestly. It is the "we," the focus on yourself, which belittles and betrays you. If you want to start a conversation with a faulty premise that it is 'We Blacks' that are the only ones trying to end racism, you will never be taken seriously.

and racism is easily explained. I believe you need to think what it is you want to say before you Hit - Post  Reply


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## IM2 (Jun 7, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you want to see me
> ...



Try explaining what I asked to be explained because I am not assuming that only blacks are wanting to end racism, but I am saying we are called racists for saying that we want to end racism.


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## JBvM (Jun 7, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Try explaining what I asked to be explained because I am not assuming that only blacks are wanting to end racism, but I am saying we are called racists for saying that we want to end racism.


 How often? and By who?

I've seen that type of tactic (the one you mention) used before, both purposefully and in ignorance. But it appears to me, and correct me if I am in error, that you have an agenda that claims a moral high ground, but is mostly arguments based on generalizations


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## JBvM (Jun 7, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Try explaining what I asked to be explained



Try asking again, without all of the noise


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## Marion Morrison (Jun 7, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you want to see me
> ...



Bro, you're not even American. Do they have blacks where you're from?


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## flacaltenn (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> I’m venting about my day, and I tell you I’m angry that a white neighbor told me, “I don’t even see you as Black.”



That's it? That provokes outrage? Let's explore this. What do YOU think those "ugly" words meant? Blacksplain it to me. Because as I read them -- I can only think of a couple things.  

Either 

1) You're pissed because she meant to dismiss your black history, black pride, and  black identify and YOU take it as her claiming you're as "white" as she is.  That's kinda ugly. But probably not a LIKELY scenario.

OR 

2) She means that she relates to you on OTHER values, interests, interactions OTHER than your dear blackness. Maybe the lady doesn't BELIEVE in a "stereotypical" black person. In that case -- which is FAR more likely -- you're only pissed BECAUSE she doesn't qualify her relating to you on EQUAL social terms because you don't value general societal norms more than your "blackness". 

You really WANT your "blackness" to be at the VERY TOP of everyone's consciousness? Why? Does it matter a whit about whether you want to help her at a church or PTA event? Does it matter when there are neighborhood parties or which kids get to play together?  Do you WANT to be a stereotypical black person? 

I MUST be dumb about these things if you answer YES to all those last questions. 

Would you please answer them to find out how dumb I really am?


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Try explaining what I asked to be explained because I am not assuming that only blacks are wanting to end racism, but I am saying we are called racists for saying that we want to end racism.
> ...



I wonder why we have to have agendas but whites don't. My argument is based on a solid foundation of American laws and policies. No moral high ground, no generalizations. Straight documented fact.  The reality of white racism is that it is based on a belief whites have on how they are morally superior. The claim of blacks being racist for asking that racism end has been a long used strategy by mostly the right and the republican party.

Ask Rush Limbaugh and his listeners. Or Sean Hannity and his. I can go on for quite a while naming conservative talk show hosts who do this.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > I’m venting about my day, and I tell you I’m angry that a white neighbor told me, “I don’t even see you as Black.”
> ...



You aren't thinking at all. Maybe learn to read entire articles to see what the person is talking about before rendering your worthless opinion.

*1. You Think I’ve Got a Fact Wrong (‘Actually…’)*
For many people, it’s tempting to speak up when you encounter a fact you believe is wrong. Correcting someone seems pretty straight forward – so does it really relate to racism?

In certain cases, it does. And if you’re a white person talking with a person of color about racism, it’s best to keep this possibility in mind.

*Because of white supremacy, many white people – especially white men, who are also **influenced by patriarchy** – have been conditioned to speak over other people and **dominate spaces**.*

This begins as early as elementary school, when white and male students get more positive encouragement like being called on more often, even when they’re not raising their hands.

If you’re used to being affirmed for sharing your thoughts, you might feel entitled to share them even when – no offense – you have no idea what you’re talking about.

*And then you might do one of the most irritating forms of whitesplaining – assuming a person of color just doesn’t understand what’s going on.*

I’ve experienced this too many times when white folks believe they know more about what I’ve been through than I do – through secondhand information or just their own wild guesses.

For instance, when I tell someone that saying, “I don’t see color” erases my identity, they often dismiss my complaint with any of number of reasons they didn’t _mean _to hurt me.

Believe me, I’ve heard them all: “Actually, I didn’t mean it that way. I’m just trying to say we’re all human. I’m trying to say I don’t see you as different. I’m trying to treat everyone equally.”

_Try _as they might, they’re not going to achieve equality by taking a “colorblind” approach. Explaining that you have good intentions doesn’t erase the impact of invalidating my racial identity and implying that seeing my Blackness is a _bad _thing.

*Talking with me about issues that affect my community means you have limits – you don’t have a lifetime of firsthand experience.*

So it’s simply a sign of respect to give me the benefit of the doubt and trust that I can find the words for my own experience.

There’s nothing wrong with clearing up information if you come across something you believe is incorrect. But approach the situation with some humility. Ask questions to figure out why there’s a difference between what I’m saying and what you believe is true.

You might find that your information is wrong, that I interpret it differently, or that we’re on the same page, but I use different language rooted in my experience. And you’ll probably learn something new.

*2. You Think My Feelings Are Wrong (‘Be Objective, It’s Not That Bad…’)*
Have you ever felt like a person of color was being “oversensitive” when they got upset about racism?

If you try to tell me I shouldn’t be emotional about a racial justice issue, then I already know you don’t understand that issue. Because emotion is anatural response to oppression – and having someone judge how I feel about it just makes me feel worse.

For example, take microaggressions – small, subtle incidents of racism often done by people who don’t know they’re being racist. An example is someone telling me, “You’re pretty for a Black girl.”

It’s not the most egregious expression of racism, so you may wonder, “What’s the big deal?”

*I’m upset, you’re confused, and the difference between our reactions isn’t just a matter of my being “oversensitive.” It’s a matter of privilege: You can learn about racism through secondhand sources, while I’ve directly experienced racism my entire life.*

So it’s not up to you to decide what I should be offended by. Save your whitesplanation if you want to explain why I’m overreacting to a well-meaning compliment (which isn’t a compliment at all) by cringing at “you’re pretty for a Black girl.”

After I’ve dealt with microaggressions on a daily basis for so long, it’s just cruel to expect me to minimize my feelings about racism.

But wait – do my feelings make me biased? Maybe you want to have an “objective conversation,” a “rational debate,” without emotions getting in the way.

Like so many whitesplainers, you believe what you say is important because you have logic on your side. Objectivity is an understandable goal, but think about what it means to believe you’re the only one who can bring “reason” into the conversation.

*The truth is that you’re just as biased as anyone else – your perspective is influenced by your own experiences and position of privilege. That also gives you a biased point of view on what “objectivity” means.*

You’re approaching the conversation like a high school debate, as if this is just a harmless exercise in flexing our reasoning skills.

But when we’re talking about racial injustice, we’re actually addressing real issues with a negative impact on real people’s lives.

This isn’t the time to show off your debate skills just for the hell of it, or to play “devil’s advocate” when all you’re really doing is upholding the status quo. The phrase “the devil doesn’t need an advocate” comes to mind – since you’re siding with the dominant norm of white supremacy.

It’s tempting to wave around your “rational thought” that you think invalidates my feelings – but you’re not an authority on how I should feel about the issues that affect me.

*3. You’re Concerned About My Approach (‘I Think What You Mean Is…’)*
Whitesplainers are supposedly full of concern when they say I’d be better off, or a better advocate for racial justice, if I just said or did things differently.

For instance, have you ever felt the need to point out that a person of color was “generalizing” white people when they talked about racism?

If I say, “White people talk over me,” you might jump in with: “Not all white people. More people would listen to you if you didn’t generalize.”

And sure, I could amend my statement to: “Some white people talk over me. But not all of them. I know white people who don’t talk over me at all. And I’m sure the ones who do it don’t realize what they’re doing, and they don’t mean to be racist.”

*Except there’s **actually a problem** with rushing to say that “not all white people” are part of the problem of white supremacy.*

If I focused on reassuring every white person that they’re not personally responsible, then nobody would get the chance to examine how they might contribute – whether it’s by interrupting people of color, paying more attention to white folks who speak, or internalizing and benefiting from society’s messages that white people have more important things to say.

*Your attempt to make sure I get the right message across may come from a good place. But the thing is – and do forgive me if this comes across as “generalizing” – people who whitesplain so often get things wrong, or at the very least, they miss the point.*

It’s true that not every white person speaks over people of color – but blaming all white people for this phenomenon isn’t even the purpose of what I’m saying. If you don’t derail me to focus on protecting white people’s feelings, we could get to the real point of the problem – and what to do about it.

*4. You Think You or Someone Else Is Being Falsely Accused (‘But I’m Not a Racist!’)*
Speaking of derailments – when I’m talking about a racist act, I don’t have much interest in whether or not the person responsible is “a racist.”

If that sounds counterintuitive, then you could really use this clarification about addressing white supremacy: It’s not about identifying people as racists.

It’s also not about “bashing” white people – but you may interpret it that way if you’re feeling uncomfortable. And then you might whitesplain that people of color are “attacking” you for no reason.

*When it comes to things like holding implicit biases and **benefiting from white privilege**, the question of whether or not someone is intentionally bigoted is **completely irrelevant**.*

So you’re not under attack if a person of color is talking to you about race – not even if they’re calling you out for racism.

I remember one call-out in which writers of color let a white editor know how he’d contributed to racism in the publishing industry, and how he could do better.

Because it’s such a sensitive topic, many people interpret any mention of racism as a conflict – and this discussion was no different.

The editor’s friends immediately rallied to his defense, saying, “He doesn’t have a racist bone in his body!”

But nobody had even said this man was “a racist.” We simply pointed out that his actions had a harmful impact – and his being a good person wouldn’t make that impact vanish.

*If you’re **called out** for racism and you take it as a personal attack on your character, you’re making the situation all about you – not the bigger picture of how all of us can take responsibility for our own role in white supremacy.*

Your belief that someone “doesn’t have a racist bone in their body” can lead you to overlook the _impact _of what they’ve done and focus instead on their _intentions._

In other words, you’re oversimplifying the issue, separating yourself from “the bad guys” and saying good people can’t possibly do something wrong.

Unfortunately, good people contribute to white supremacy every day – and if you can’t face the ways white supremacy influences your life, you’ll never be able to change it. That means you’ve got to stop focusing on your good nature and intentions, which has you prioritizing your feelings over people of color’s pain.

You’d have a much more positive impact if instead, you focused on addressing our very real, very valid concerns about how you’re contributing to our oppression.

So rather than whitesplaining the _why _of insensitive actions, try stepping back and listening to what only a person of color could tell you – how the actual _impact _of racist actions affect them.

If that makes you uncomfortable, it’s time to practice sitting with and learning from your discomfort instead of assuming that it means you’re under attack.

*5. You Heard Another Person of Color Say Something Different (‘That’s Not What I Heard…’)*
Listening to people of color is a great way to learn about racism. But please don’t just carry our quotes around like weapons to use against other marginalized folks.

Too many white people use this tactic to tell us that we’re wrong about racism – citing the Native friend who doesn’t mind cultural appropriation, or the Black celebrity who disagrees with Black Lives Matter protesters.

For instance, during Baltimore protests of the death of Freddie Gray, CNN’s Wolf Blitzer told activist DeRay McKesson, “I just want to hear you say there should be peaceful protests, not violent protests, in the tradition of Martin Luther King.”

Blitzer’s not the only one to take King’s words out of context to criticize police brutality protesters. This common trend shows exactly what’s wrong with using people of color’s words this way.

*For one thing, Black people are not a monolith. We’re allowed to disagree. And your whiteness doesn’t grant you the authority to determine which one of us is right.*

Because he advocated non-violent action, many people point to church-going, suit-wearing Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. as a symbol of how Black folks “should” behave – conveniently forgetting that King was assassinated for his beliefs and leadership.

Using King in this way also oversimplifies his life and his message – his words on riots actually show that he doesn’t condemn them as “misbehavior.”

He actually says: “As long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.”

To understand violent riots, you have to understand the unjust conditionsthat create them.

And if you actually listen to people of color instead of exploiting our words to confirm your own biases, you can learn a lot more about our diverse experiences.

*6. You Want Me to Stop Talking About Racism (‘You’re Being So Divisive’)*
Let’s face it – there are several excuses for whitesplaining, from hurt feelings to so-called “concern,” but many people who whitesplain do it simply because they don’t want me to talk about race.

“You’re being divisive.” “We should be uniting.” “There’s no such thing as race – we’re all human!”

*Whitesplaining is particularly dangerous when it’s used to shut down conversation and action against racism.*

For instance, you might explain that you don’t disagree with the message of Black Lives Matter, but you think the phrase should be “all lives matter,”because that captures the fact that everyone deserves to be safe from violence.

This isn’t just a matter of harmlessly sharing your opinion about an issue of race. You’re spreading a perspective that comes from the privilege of being silent in the face of injustice.

There is an urgent need to protect Black people from a criminal justice system that doesn’t value our lives, and you’re dismissing a whole movement aimed at doing just that.

Right now, we don’t need your interrupting to remind us that white people matter, too. There are white people who have also been mistreated by police, and that’s not okay – but it doesn’t invalidate the fact that we need to address the racial bias that has people of color targeted by police violence at much higher rates.

It doesn’t change that people believe racist stereotypes about Black people as “thugs,” exonerate police officers who attack people of color, and find any number of reasons to blame the victim. It doesn’t erase this horrific example of institutional racism that treats Black lives like they don’t matter at all.

If you understood my life experience, you’d know why recognizing race and directly addressing racial injustice matters to me.

*Here’s the Key to Avoiding Whitesplaining*
Reading this all at once might give you the impression that avoiding whitesplaining is a complicated matter.

Holding back from correcting someone when you think they’re wrong, sitting with uncomfortable emotions when you feel like you’re under attack, stepping back when you think you could explain something better – all of this takes some self-control.

*There’s one strategy that will help you figure it all out: Approach racial justice conversations with humility.*

In all of these examples I’ve shared, white people think they’re telling me something that’s never occurred to me before.

But the thing is, I’ve heard these whitesplanations over and over again. None of them are original, and it’s a waste of my time (and yours) to do this dance again and again and treat them like they are.

It’s also arrogant and condescending to assume that you and I see things differently simply because you’ve got all the answers and I lack the capacity to understand my own experience.

*It’s all a perfect example of what you’re missing when you think I need you to explain things to me.*

Whether you want me to “calm down” so I get my message across, to clarify what I mean so I don’t hurt white people’s feelings, or to stop talking about race so you feel more comfortable, whitesplaining is not the answer.

Because regardless of your intentions, whitesplaining has a damaging impact – silencing people of color, shutting down vital racial justice conversations, and often spreading misinformation.

So rather than upholding an oppressive lie that says people of color need white saviors in order to have reasonable conversations, have some humility. Recognize that you don’t have all the answers, and people of color deserve space to be heard without white people talking over us.


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

Marion Morrison said:


> JBvM said:
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What?


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> JBvM said:
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Get a refund for whatever education you paid for. 

you: "I wonder why we have to have agendas but whites don't."

I answer: "I've seen that type of tactic used before, both purposefully and in ignorance."

Now please allow me to Educationsplain it to you, "I've seen that type of tactic used before, both purposefully and..." acknowledging an agenda


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## flacaltenn (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
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You read my post? I asked NOTHING about patriarchy or racial justice or victim blaming or the entire of cart of crap you just unloaded.I didn't talk down to you or ask you to "calm down". 

I just asked about the ONE EXAMPLE in your OP..  Obviously, this is not a DISCUSSION -- it's tending to a rant. And I ain't got a cart-full of crap to unload on you. I just want to understand the example you presented in the OP. 

Can you answer the questions or are you filibustering and blacksplaining me?


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## squeeze berry (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
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> > IM2 said:
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dat be blacksplaining n sheeit


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## flacaltenn (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> You aren't thinking at all. Maybe learn to read entire articles to see what the person is talking about before rendering your worthless opinion.



I also did not "render an opinion". I asked you to explain the example in the OP. I gave you 2 scenarios for "outrage" that I could think of -- maybe I missed something. Are you not gonna have a discussion about this?


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
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Blacksplaining my ass. Your questions have nothing to do with the outrage the person felt. The examples I sent to you did. So I answered your questions and the only one ranting is you.


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## flacaltenn (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> I'd certainly like to understand how whites can explain racism without trying to claim how blacks are racists too even as all we are doing is asking that the racism end. I would like it explained how whites can make claims of black racism without understanding how the way blacks have been treated and continue being treated by whites is not a contributing factor to why there might actually be blacks who don't like whites.



Think we've covered that. The divide here is ideologically DEEPER than racism. You're NOT a typical black person -- YET -- you seem perfectly fine representing the entire race because according to you the entire black race wants RETRIBUTION and PAIN from whites in order to HAVE a reconciliation. You've also railed against individualism and glorified Group Think.. This is a lot of baggage ON TOP of any racism that either of us may have. 

You're the oddity. Not us. We're here to learn and patch up the racial divide. THAT scares the FUCK out of you. Because then you wouldn't be an asset to the cause anymore.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > You aren't thinking at all. Maybe learn to read entire articles to see what the person is talking about before rendering your worthless opinion.
> ...



Maybe here are other scenarios besides that ridiculous crap you posted that are actually worthy to be discussed. Because your 2 scenarios as presented are not.


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## flacaltenn (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
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Maybe you didn't read my HONEST HUMBLE questions to the Wiz of Oz.  Let me try one more time.




IM2 said:


> I’m venting about my day, and I tell you I’m angry that a white neighbor told me, “I don’t even see you as Black.”



That's it? That provokes outrage? Let's explore this. What do YOU think those "ugly" words meant? Blacksplain it to me. Because as I read them -- I can only think of a couple things.

Either

1) You're pissed because she meant to dismiss your black history, black pride, and  black identify and YOU take it as her claiming you're as "white" as she is.  That's kinda ugly. But probably not a LIKELY scenario.

OR

2) She means that she relates to you on OTHER values, interests, interactions OTHER than your dear blackness. Maybe the lady doesn't BELIEVE in a "stereotypical" black person. In that case -- which is FAR more likely -- you're only pissed BECAUSE she doesn't qualify her relating to you on EQUAL social terms because you don't value general societal norms more than your "blackness".

*You really WANT your "blackness" to be at the VERY TOP of everyone's consciousness? Why? Does it matter a whit about whether you want to help her at a church or PTA event? Does it matter when there are neighborhood parties or which kids get to play together?  Do you WANT to be a stereotypical black person?*

I MUST be dumb about these things if you answer YES to all those last questions.

Would you please answer them to find out how dumb I really am?


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## flacaltenn (Jun 8, 2018)

I really have no beef with you. But you've never answer a single question HONESTLY or HUMBLY in my whole experience with you. I've sincerely ASKING for a real convo -- not a dump.  I love the passion man -- but I get this particular vision every time we try to discuss ANYTHING..


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## flacaltenn (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
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Hey Hey Hey.. That's what I'm asking. Why are my scenarios not complete? Answer the questions. Major breakthru Wiz.. Maybe we're not in Kansas anymore..


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd certainly like to understand how whites can explain racism without trying to claim how blacks are racists too even as all we are doing is asking that the racism end. I would like it explained how whites can make claims of black racism without understanding how the way blacks have been treated and continue being treated by whites is not a contributing factor to why there might actually be blacks who don't like whites.
> ...


 
I'm very typical. You don't know anybody black. And you don't want racial reconciliation, you are the one scared of it. You make no sense and that's because you're a dumb ass dittohead who actually thinks that if racism ended tomorrow I'd be unhappy because another white man tells you that. But again you live in the south, the place whites believed that blacks were happy as slaves. Where whites thought the "typical" blacks were happy with jim crow and if those northern white troublemakers would just sop  filling their heads blacks would still be happy living in the south with no rights. You practice and embrace groupthink then claim you aren't. Everything you say is a lie. I have no baggage, you do. Asking for what is right to fix the damage created by white racism is not about making whites suffer. But your denial of these things makes blacks continue to suffer. So it seems you are fine with blacks suffering just as long was we can find the easiest way out for whites The blacks who are here seem to see things pretty close to the way I do. That doesn't happen for you. There are whites here who reject your racism and the racism of the whites you enable. You are the oddity.


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## flacaltenn (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
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> > IM2 said:
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Let me ponder that analysis. Including the part where I "don't know anyone black"..  My neighbor gonna chuckle at that one. He's a Tennessee Titan. And he's more bubbah than I am for sure. But to be fair. Lemme sleep on it.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> I really have no beef with you. But you've never answer a single question HONESTLY or HUMBLY in my whole experience with you. I've sincerely ASKING for a real convo -- not a dump.  I love the passion man -- but I get this particular vision every time we try to discuss ANYTHING..



I don't address arrogance with humility. You don't answer questions when asked then you demand yours get answered. I have answered your questions honestly.  I just don't answer them with what you want or need to hear, but the truth of what I have seen and experienced from being black. And that includes fighting policies at city halls.


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> ...


Serious question

I remember reading that Jesse Jackson referred to Jews as “Hymies” and New York as “Hymietown.” 

What would you call that?


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
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Oh wow you have a black professional football player as a neighbor. Big deal. So do you live in the black community and interact with blacks of every status all day every day? My brother played in the NFL so that doesn't impress me. And when you discuss our conversations to that black football player you are going to lie because that's what  you will be doing if you tell your one black friend that I only want reconciliation if whites suffer.

You're a classic flacaltenn. I've been a prime time athlete and have seen whites like you kiss a black athletes ass while not being able to stand blacks.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
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A prejudiced comment against a religion. Jews are not a race, it's a religion. There are blacks who are jews. .Now would you like to show me what law or policy Jackson authored to deny jews rights or opportunities?


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> JBvM said:
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I remember reading that Jesse Jackson referred to Jews as “Hymies” and New York as “Hymietown.”

What would you call that?

and the above is your reply? So you can't or won't supply an answer. Okay. Have a nice day.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
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Flacaltenn you can't snipe at person then delete what they post in response..


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## there4eyeM (Jun 8, 2018)

"Whites do this..." and "Whitey does that..." is racist speech to the core. That's objective reality if ever there were. Any objective reader from any culture or language who read the posts of "IM2" and the definition of racism would recognize the racist terms and speech.
The traits he seems to think only apply to "whites" are, it is a lamentable fact, human.
There is only one race. Accept that or not, it's science. 
Every very human has challenges in life and has choices.
Wasn't it Michael Jackson who said, "I don't want to spend my life being a color."?


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
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I did supply an answer.

*A prejudiced comment against a religion. Jews are not a race, it's a religion. There are blacks who are jews. Now would you like to show me what law or policy Jackson authored to deny jews rights or opportunities?
*
What part of that did not answer your question? Seems that you, like the others, do not want address laws or policies made by whites that denied blacks of opportunities for 3/4ths of the time this has been a country. Talk about an agenda.


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> I did supply an answer.
> 
> *A prejudiced comment against a religion. Jews are not a race, it's a religion.*



Is what Hilter did early on before his power grab, only prejudiced comments against a religion? Do people consider Jews to be a race. Other than converts, how does one become a 'Jew?'

Now do you believe there is a Black gene, genes for race?


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## there4eyeM (Jun 8, 2018)

Certainly, in Hitler's mind and in general thinking of the epoch, it was racism. Hitler's intentions were clearly for genetic purity, an idea that entirely ignores reality, but, then, racist always do.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> "Whites do this..." and "Whitey does that..." is racist speech to the core. That's objective reality if ever there were. Any objective reader from any culture or language who read the posts of "IM2" and the definition of racism would recognize the racist terms and speech.
> The traits he seems to think only apply to "whites" are, it is a lamentable fact, human.
> There is only one race. Accept that or not, it's science.
> Every very human has challenges in life and has choices.
> Wasn't it Michael Jackson who said, "I don't want to spend my life being a color."?



*Racism

 a belief that **race** is the primary **determinant** of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 
2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles 

b : a political or social system founded on racism 

3 : racial **prejudice** or discrimination* 

Nothing I have said meets this definition. But what many whites here have and you haven't said a damn thing.  

There are no races, that's what science says. 

I don't need the standard white lecture about what every human faces. For the challenge whites face now is erasing the damage racist policies and laws they made created. And it seems that many here don't want make the choice to do so.


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## there4eyeM (Jun 8, 2018)

Some already have.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > I did supply an answer.
> ...



How about we look at laws and policies whites made that denied people of color opportunities? For that killed way more and lasted way longer than what Hitler did. Even a war didn't stop that from continuing.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

there4eyeM said:


> Some already have.



And like I said there are many here who have not.


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## Unkotare (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> flacaltenn said:
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“Prime time“!


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> IM2 said:
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Yep. Something you can never say.


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## Unkotare (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Unkotare said:
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Meaning what, exactly? You were on TV every night between 5 and 10?


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## PredFan (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


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Keep lying, u understand that that’s how you lefties greet each day.


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## PredFan (Jun 8, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> IM2 said:
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> > PredFan said:
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He isn’t explaining anything, he’s just spouting a bunch of racist stupidity.


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## PredFan (Jun 8, 2018)

So the OP demonizes and denegrates an entire group of people based on their skin color. Which is the exact definition of racism.


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## MarcATL (Jun 8, 2018)

bgrouse said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


The fact that you have to ask this is mind-boggling, but I'll waste my time and answer you anyway...


It shows a history of the callous and cavalier attitudes whites(women even) have towards blacks and their lives in general
It shows a history of whites (women even) lying on blacks that leads to their death

None of this has changed much since then.


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## squeeze berry (Jun 8, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > MarcATL said:
> ...


 

do you really want to go down the fake racism trail as well as callous actions? 

murder/rape/robbery assault

you stand on no moral high ground


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## squeeze berry (Jun 8, 2018)

PredFan said:


> So the OP demonizes and denegrates an entire group of people based on their skin color. Which is the exact definition of racism.


 

IMO it is OK for anyone to be racist regardless of ethnicity. It's when they are sanctimonious and hypocritical that it needs to be addressed


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> ...


Is a racial prejudice any worse or better than a prejudice against Jews or Muslims?

and now we get to race as a BELIEF. What if somebody treats you a certain way, yet has no beliefs in race?

So you exhibit anger and maybe hatred towards white people as a group. White people today have no responsibilities for the practice of Slavery in America. You appear to be playing 'sins of the fathers' and that is how slaughters of 'the other' have happened throughout history.

Neither I, nor I believe a few others I take seriously in this thread have or would deny the cultural and societal injustices and unfairness blacks in America have faced. I include Blacks not descended from slaves in America. For people to have a discussion on what we call 'racism' we would all need to agree to intellectually meet someplace or somewhere that is open and honest. A place where one side does not *dominate (what a great *descriptor of human interactions) the discussion as if they are the lecturer and everyone else is the student body

You waste your time and that of others, as well all do. But the delusion you suffer is that anything you argue here matters. It doesn't. With friends like you, people looking to address 'racism' need no enemies


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> How about we look at laws and policies whites made that denied people of color opportunities?



Okay. Has that been ignored all this time? Have some White people in America fought those injustices and sacrificed their own livelihoods or lives over those fights? Has government not tried to address it all because of societal pressures and moral obligations?


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> How about we look... For that killed way more and lasted way longer than what Hitler did. Even a war didn't stop that from continuing.



This kind of bullshit defeats any positive purpose. I would think you are trolling and not really a Black person looking for what ... Justice. You do know Justice is blind?


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

PredFan said:


> So the OP demonizes and denegrates_{sic}_ an entire group of people...


... and you feel the need to be offended by such stupidity?


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > So what exactly does some kid who has been dead over half a century have to do with current events?
> ...


"None of this has changed much?" While respect your attempt(s) at honest discussion, I fail to see any truth in that statement.

But with caveats, I agree with you that:

[*1] It shows a _*past *_history of the callous and cavalier attitudes_* of some *_whites (women even) towards blacks, and their lives in general. One need only look at protests and outrage over how some blacks have been treated to se how much things have changed, changed since slavery existed in America, or even Jim Crow laws. 


[*]It shows a history of whites (women even) lying on blacks that leads to their death. And we have always had Blacks (women even) lying on Blacks leading to Blacks being incarcerated or dying. 

The callousness shown by bigots towards the memory of those kids you mentioned, in no way is a reflection upon White people in American society. Bigots are a sub group in most culture and society. If YOU want to appeal to the Angels of our Better Nature, I would go out out on a limb and 'splain to you to be more introspective and intellectually honest. Or not.


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## MarcATL (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> I'd certainly like to understand how whites can explain racism without trying to claim how blacks are racists too even as all we are doing is asking that the racism end. I would like it explained how whites can make claims of black racism without understanding how the way blacks have been treated and continue being treated by whites is not a contributing factor to why there might actually be blacks who don't like whites. i'd like it explained to me how whites here in particular, keep telling us how such racism is a thing of the past when we see it happen all the time now. How whites can ignore 200 years of preferential treatment by written law to pretend how they have never been preferred or protected. Why can whites ignore laws and policies made on purpose to deny opportunity and wealth for blacks then claim that blacks don't want to work and that poverty is the fault of blacks. I'd like it explained to me how whites organized and made crime corporate controlling the guns and drugs but blame blacks for criminality. I'd like it explained to me how whites have slaughtered millions yet blacks are blamed for being the most violent killers in this country. Let's start with these things.


POWERFUL!!!


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## MarcATL (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> How often? and By who?
> 
> I've seen that type of tactic (the one you mention) used before, both purposefully and in ignorance. But it appears to me, and correct me if I am in error, that you have an agenda that claims a moral high ground, but is mostly arguments based on generalizations


Why not start by answering those questions he asked?


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Actually I exhibit anger towards whites who are racists. All whites are not racists.  

I have no delusions about talking on a internet discussion forum.  But if you want an honest discussion then you need to drop the excuses about slavery and the sins of the fathers excuses. Slavery did not exist in 1992 when I filed a class action suit for racial discrimination against a US Company. It did not exist in1997 when we stood up to a city council fighting racial discrimination in funding.  The same for fighting city council policies in 2001, 2004, 2006, 2007. Right now I'm om a bi racial committee upon request to wok on a ending police harassment of blacks in this town. I've been pretty successful at getting racist policies changed, how about you?

Your opinion is all you got, and your opinion says that my argument is about slavery. You are in error. Slavery was made illegal. But the resulting 100 years after slavery did exist and the damages caused by those laws and policies we all live with today and whites benefitted from them.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> > How often? and By who?
> ...



He can't just like the rest of them can't.


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## MarcATL (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> "None of this has changed much?" While respect your attempt(s) at honest discussion, I fail to see any truth in that statement.
> 
> But with caveats, I agree with you that:
> 
> ...


Yes, it hasn't changed much.

Right now we have video footage of white women calling cops on blacks for...

Sleeping in the general reading area of their dormitory
Cooking outside
Moving into their apartments
Moving out of an AirBnB home

And these are RECENT, as in the last month or so. All that had the cops called, some of which ended in either arrest or some sort of action against them.

For what!?!? Because these white women felt uncomfortable...somehow.

Their uncomfort = violence to these blacks. Where absolutely NO crime was taken place.

This is what we have on VIDEO, mind you. Imagine how many times this goes on undocumented by video.

Clearly you don't have a problem with that, which colors your perspective, and hence your opinions. Or, at worse case, you're simply a dishonest broker.

So if anything, it seems the only dishonest person here is you.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > How about we look... For that killed way more and lasted way longer than what Hitler did. Even a war didn't stop that from continuing.
> ...



No it doesn't.


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> > How often? and By who?
> ...


Why would I? His questions were about as ignorant as it can get


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > How about we look at laws and policies whites made that denied people of color opportunities?
> ...



Whites enacted laws and policies to deny people of color that did not have to be implemented. It's just that simple.


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Actually I exhibit anger towards whites who are racists. All whites are not racists.
> 
> I have no delusions about talking on a internet discussion forum.  But if you want an honest discussion then you need to drop the excuses about slavery and the sins of the fathers excuses. Slavery did not exist in 1992 when I filed a class action suit for racial discrimination against a US Company. It did not exist in 1997 when we stood up to a city council fighting racial discrimination in funding.  The same for fighting city council policies in 2001, 2004, 2006, 2007. Right now I'm om a bi racial committee upon request to wok on a ending police harassment of blacks in this town. I've been pretty successful at getting racist policies changed, how about you?
> 
> Your opinion is all you got, and your opinion says that my argument is about slavery. You are in error. Slavery was made illegal. But the resulting 100 years after slavery did exist and the damages caused by those laws and policies we all live with today and whites benefitted from them.


"the excuses about slavery and the sins of the fathers excuses?"

first, for a troll like you to suggest I excuse the slavery that existed in the USA is par for the course here so far.

second, the 'sins of the fathers' is something Demagogues, and Despots, and Tyrants have historically used to set people on one another. 

To be fair and credible one would need to address the issues of today, while recognizing the past and not trying to hitch the past onto the people living today. People alive today have no influence over what happened in the past. No one can change the past, not even a Demagogue, a Despot, or a Tyrant. If one wants to address the historical and the current, one must be very clear about things

How about me? It's not about me, even if I am White.

So, "the resulting 100 years after slavery did exist and the damages caused by those laws and policies we all live with today and whites benefitted_*{sic}*_ from them." -Yes, some Whites benefited.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > JBvM said:
> ...



No they weren't. You know that if you answer them your argument is dead on arrival.


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## MarcATL (Jun 8, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> I*MO it is OK for anyone to be racist regardless of ethnicity. *It's when they are sanctimonious and hypocritical that it needs to be addressed


This poster has yet again outed himself.

The bolded indicates that what's really happening here is that the subject is giving HIMSELF permission and excuse to be racist, but projecting a "well everyone is racist, so it's OK if I am too" attitude.


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## MarcATL (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> Why would I? His questions were about as ignorant as it can get


Now I know there's no reason within you, so I'm glad you alerted me to wasting my time in the future.

How are you calling the FACTS he listed in his questions to you, "ignorant?"

Surprise me and actually respond with some sense for once.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Actually I exhibit anger towards whites who are racists. All whites are not racists.
> ...



 I am the OP. You are the one trolling  All whites benefitted from the laws and policies enacted during the 100 years after slavery. And yes you use the sins if the fathers as an excuse. You have been asked to explain laws and policies, you haven't  because you can't, When you can let me know because I've been in enough of these dead end "debates" with dumb ass whites who repeat the same bullshit excuses.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

PredFan said:


> So the OP demonizes and denegrates an entire group of people based on their skin color. Which is the exact definition of racism.



Except I haven't done that.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



And we damn sure ain't in Tennessee. You presented 2 scenarios and both of them had nothing to do with why the person was outraged. And you have at least 20 questions from me you have never answered so yours will not answered.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



A champion. Something you apparently know nothing about.


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> Yes, it hasn't changed much.


OF course many Black people would disagree with that statement, while not denying the incidents you listed. The racially based things you mention are not the norm. nor are they representative. You appear to be seeing things like many White people do who see in Black sub culture, the pants around the hips and ankles, the sexually explicit crap and open degradation of women that could make Trump blush? The Thug culture so celebrated, and the idea that Bars and Clubs mostly hire Bog Black guys as security LOL  , which always bothers me personally, for I often wonder:: do people not see most Big Black Guys as capable of more than a physical presence meant to signal the negative?

In most cities and towns there is a black middle class, that outpaces poor whites. Blacks do not live like Donald Trump has framed it  with "What have you got to lose?" implying most Blacks live in inner city ghettos. 

Cherry pick what it is around the place, and one can make any case.


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## Unkotare (Jun 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...


.


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 MarcATL


IM2 said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


yes it does

when you speak the way you do here (or in the outside world), few actually listen Most just simply tune you out or patronize you.That is not Black Power. It is stupidity


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## Unkotare (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...







A champion what? State hypocrisy-flinging?


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## DOTR (Jun 8, 2018)

What white policies are to blame for this?


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Whites enacted laws and policies to deny people of color that did not have to be implemented. It's just that simple.


Try and make some sense of this.

Laws and polices were enacted that did not have to be implemented?


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> > Why would I? His questions were about as ignorant as it can get
> ...


I was responding to what I thought you mentioned the other guy. Was it begrouse? Not sure.


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## PredFan (Jun 8, 2018)

squeeze berry said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > So the OP demonizes and denegrates an entire group of people based on their skin color. Which is the exact definition of racism.
> ...



Real racism? No. I suppose you can be racist if you want to, it’s a free country but I don’t like it. If I call someone a worthless fuck, it has nothing to do with their race. I have no tolerance for racists.


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## PredFan (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > So the OP demonizes and denegrates_{sic}_ an entire group of people...
> ...



Pointing out his hypocrisy and racism isn’t the same as being offended.


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## PredFan (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > So the OP demonizes and denegrates an entire group of people based on their skin color. Which is the exact definition of racism.
> ...


----------



## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> It is when white women played into the racism.  Ask Emmitt Till. So then you step back.


 So this is what MarcATL  is talking bout? (Not able to post or repost anything with LINKS yet) 

"McRae demonstrates how white women, not just in the South but across the nation, turned their traditional roles as mothers, defenders of family and children, tellers of stories, and activists in schools into a political force that sustained racism, reshaped American conservatism, and continues to influence our politics and culture."

This McRae may demonstrate whatever he/she wants, but posing opinions as fact is what far too many people do. The facts she uses are not in dispute. How she weaves them into a narrative is open to criticism.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



That's your game.


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

PredFan said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> > PredFan said:
> ...


Yet you come across as offended, and easily so. It could be your style, but I've seen far too much denial on his issue


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

bgrouse said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > White women owned slaves
> ...


White women owned slaves? Who knew?

Slavery was part of some cultures. There were lost of White women who would never own slaves in America. Who refused to on principle. Those are facts too. What does it all mean? Is pointing out one thing while ignoring the other disingenuous?


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

DOTR said:


> What white policies are to blame for this?
> 
> 
> View attachment 197398



The same white policies that destabilizes countries to put in puppet leaders. 

BTW there is also such a thing as drought


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## Unkotare (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...







Not my game, champ.


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## Unkotare (Jun 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...




?


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## DOTR (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > What white policies are to blame for this?
> ...



  That was a picture of Zimbabweans under Mugabe. When it was Rhodesia it exported food.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

DOTR said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > DOTR said:
> ...



When it was Rhodesia it was an apartheid government. When Mugabe took over and sent the white famers packing, white countries ganged up on him and sanctioned Zimbabwe into starvation.


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## DOTR (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



  And it fed everyone in its borders which enough left over to export to surrounding black run socialist shitholes.


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## IM2 (Jun 8, 2018)

DOTR said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > DOTR said:
> ...



When it was Rhodesia it was an apartheid government. I don't think you say the same thing about authoritarian governments anywhere else on earth. When Mugabe took over and sent the white famers packing, white countries ganged up on him and sanctioned Zimbabwe into starvation.


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## Unkotare (Jun 8, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...





Full of crap as expected.


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## PredFan (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > JBvM said:
> ...



Or, more than likely, that’s what you wanted to get out of it.


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## JBvM (Jun 8, 2018)

PredFan said:


> Or, more than likely, that’s what you wanted to get out of it.


time will tell. I'll be honest


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## MizMolly (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> > I.C. 4 members so far awarding you with those things. Funny: 3 Dale Smith, Markle, talksalot, and Winner Medal: 1 MarcATL
> ...


When blacks are angry at whites today just because they are white, that is racism. I treat everyone equally, regardless of race. If someone is a white thug, black thug, oriental thug, etc. I don't treat them kindly, not because of their race, but their behavior. In the PAST whites had advantages I dont deny that, I can't change it. Today, you have the same opportunities, and you certainly cant blame the majority of whites today for anything you feel you are denied.


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## MizMolly (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


You aren't asking that racism end. You are asking for and blaming whites to take responsibility for things out of their control and in the past. In your case, I am quite sure people don't hate you for your race, you have a piss poor attitude toward whites, and it shows.


----------



## MizMolly (Jun 8, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd certainly like to understand how whites can explain racism without trying to claim how blacks are racists too even as all we are doing is asking that the racism end. I would like it explained how whites can make claims of black racism without understanding how the way blacks have been treated and continue being treated by whites is not a contributing factor to why there might actually be blacks who don't like whites.
> ...


If reparations were to be given, I seriously doubt the hatred of blacks toward whites would end there.


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## MizMolly (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


HISTORY, let's live in the present


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## MizMolly (Jun 8, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> JBvM said:
> 
> 
> > "None of this has changed much?" While respect your attempt(s) at honest discussion, I fail to see any truth in that statement.
> ...


IM2 states his reasons for being suspicious of white people, There are white women who have experienced scary encounters with black men. So, only black people can be suspicious? I think too many times some whites jump the gun, it isn't warranted for them to call the cops for someone sleeping in a dorm or cooking outside. Those are extreme examples. You will find examples of all kinds of crazy people, it doesn't make it the norm.


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## MizMolly (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Whites enacted laws and policies to deny people of color that did not have to be implemented. It's just that simple.
> ...





JBvM said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Whites enacted laws and policies to deny people of color that did not have to be implemented. It's just that simple.
> ...


Ironic, isn't it? Whites are the ones who changed the laws and policies.


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## MizMolly (Jun 8, 2018)

JBvM said:


> bgrouse said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


True. Blacks owned slaves here in America and all over the planet. No blacks bitch about that.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...






You are a hate filled racist.

Anyone reading you white hating OP can see that, even if deltazmebro is running interference for you. Beyond that, you have a reputation, both under this ID and under the Asclepais ID you used to post under as a rabbid and raging bigot and racist.

deltazmebro thinks your racism is cute and he wants to coddle you, but the rest of us see you as the racist scumbag that you are.


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## sparky (Jun 8, 2018)

This debate is cyclical , no way out.  

~S~


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## John Shaw (Jun 8, 2018)

IM2 said:


> John Shaw said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



I think you can't answer it. 

White people talk about race because they are being illogical. If they were being completely logical, they would refrain. As you well know, there is no advantage for them in the discussion.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



No you are the hate filled racist.  Opposing white racism is not racism. I am not Asclepais and the fact is you are a whiny pussy who can't  take getting your little racist lies torn apart.


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## BlackSand (Jun 9, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> I see your point, but I don't think I can completely agree with all you say. Trust me. This isn't an effort to be confrontational, but just an effort to better understand your beliefs and you perhaps understanding mine. I guess a person saying they don't see you as black could mean that they think you might somehow be better than their perception of what a black person is, (an obvious insult)  but more likely it's just a clumsy way of saying your race is not an issue. I don't understand why that would offend you. Please explain.



People do not need to attempt to defend themselves from something they are not guilty of (in an open discussion).

The opposition has no interest in listening to anything they have to say anyway.
They want you to shut up and listen so they can control the dialog ... And promote their agenda.

.​


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## Uncensored2008 (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



NUHN-UHN - 

What a brilliant retort.

Dude, you are a racist, own it.

Oh and shithead, what "racist lies" are these?


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## Unkotare (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...






Hey “Prime Time,” claiming to be opposing any other sort of racism does NOT grant your words, deeds, or thoughts immunity from racism. You’re fooling yourself.


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## sparky (Jun 9, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> They want you to shut up and listen so they can control the dialog ... And promote their agenda.



Now i've an agenda?

~S~


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## BlackSand (Jun 9, 2018)

sparky said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> > They want you to shut up and listen so they can control the dialog ... And promote their agenda.
> ...



What part of that gave you the impression I care what your agenda may be if you have one ... 

.​


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## sparky (Jun 9, 2018)

Actually, it is YOU who claim there is one Mr Sand

~S~


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## DOTR (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > What white policies are to blame for this?
> ...



    Robert Mugabe was a communist puppet, as blacks tend to be, but that isn’t the same thing as a white puppet. 
   Under “white policies “ the people of his country were fed. Under his policies, after he expelled whites, his people returned to Stone Age starvation levels. 
   And there was no drought. But if there were a drought in Zimbabwe the White built Kariba Dam could a life saver...if it hadn’t fallen into disrepair when the whites left. 
   Like Detroit.


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## BlackSand (Jun 9, 2018)

sparky said:


> Actually, it is YOU who claim there is one Mr Sand
> 
> ~S~



I didn't write the OP ... Just addressed the comments of someone who responded to it.

Now you are free to object to anything I may have expressed ...
If you feel the foolish need to defend yourself from something you are not guilty of.

*Ooops* ... That's what the fuck I posted that you cut out ... 
Thanks for the opportunity to cover that part  ... Again.

.​


----------



## sparky (Jun 9, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> Now you are free to object to anything I may have expressed ...
> If you feel the foolish need to defend yourself from something you are not guilty of.



I have no desire to defend myself from something i did not say or imply Mr Sand

That said, insinuating the_ opposition has an agenda_ means who?

~S~


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## BULLDOG (Jun 9, 2018)

BlackSand said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > I see your point, but I don't think I can completely agree with all you say. Trust me. This isn't an effort to be confrontational, but just an effort to better understand your beliefs and you perhaps understanding mine. I guess a person saying they don't see you as black could mean that they think you might somehow be better than their perception of what a black person is, (an obvious insult)  but more likely it's just a clumsy way of saying your race is not an issue. I don't understand why that would offend you. Please explain.
> ...



Sorry, but my question wasn't to you. I'm sure the OP can answer for himself.


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## BlackSand (Jun 9, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> Sorry, but my question wasn't to you. I'm sure the OP can answer for himself.



I didn't address the person who wrote the OP ...
Nor did I attempt to answer your question to the OP.

Let me know if there is anything else you need cleared up ... 

.​


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## BlackSand (Jun 9, 2018)

sparky said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> > Now you are free to object to anything I may have expressed ...
> ...



You asked me if you had an agenda ...
Why would you ask me what you already know the answer to?

I didn't insinuate anything ...
You either have an agenda and want to control the dialog or you don't.
There's no need to ask me for you to figure that out ... 

.​
.​


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## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

It has come to my attention that certain black/liberal  "intellectuals" are making a cottage industry of using  abstract reasoning to rationalize their own racial  animus . Things like  white privilege, micro aggression, ("whitesplaining?"), yadda yadda. I think black faux intellectuals are exploiting "black privilege". The old blame the white man game, V.2.


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## sparky (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> It has come to my attention that certain black/liberal  "intellectuals" are making a cottage industry of using  abstract reasoning to rationalize their own racial  animus . Things like  white privilege, micro aggression, yadda yadda. I think black faux intellectuals are exploiting "black privilege". The old blame the white man game, V.2.




might be the cue for some blacksplainig?......

~S~


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## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

sparky said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > It has come to my attention that certain black/liberal  "intellectuals" are making a cottage industry of using  abstract reasoning to rationalize their own racial  animus . Things like  white privilege, micro aggression, yadda yadda. I think black faux intellectuals are exploiting "black privilege". The old blame the white man game, V.2.
> ...


Well, no, then we would just get  blackscuses.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

DOTR said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > DOTR said:
> ...



Under white policies the economy was not crippled by sanctions. Under white policies blacks were murdered. So try something else because the fact is whites ruined the continent of Africa by colonizing it. Blacks were eating real well before whites got there thank you.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> It has come to my attention that certain black/liberal  "intellectuals" are making a cottage industry of using  abstract reasoning to rationalize their own racial  animus . Things like  white privilege, micro aggression, ("whitesplaining?"), yadda yadda. I think black faux intellectuals are exploiting "black privilege". The old blame the white man game, V.2.



A white woman created the term white privilege. There is no black privilege. Micro aggressions was a term made up by a Harvard professor almost 50 years ago. Whitesplaining is a fact. And we can make a forum by showing everything whites have done that gives us reason to blame them.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> sparky said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



What we see here is the full spectrum of whitescuses.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



I can't own what I am not. So own the fact you can't take the truth and live with it until you can.

I don't answer questions from people who never answer mine.


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## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > sparky said:
> ...


What is this I hear? , I hear the distant whine of a hypocrite filling the air.


----------



## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > It has come to my attention that certain black/liberal  "intellectuals" are making a cottage industry of using  abstract reasoning to rationalize their own racial  animus . Things like  white privilege, micro aggression, ("whitesplaining?"), yadda yadda. I think black faux intellectuals are exploiting "black privilege". The old blame the white man game, V.2.
> ...


Please. Blacks are milking this  to bloody death. Please, black privilege is basically blame someone else for your failures . And it's as old as  the human race. Whitesplaining  is an abstraction created by (?) intellectuals, it's no more real that the will O' the wisp.


----------



## LOIE (Jun 9, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> Because these white women felt uncomfortable...somehow.


The MSNBC special addressed this. One speaker said the problem is that for too many people black lives do not matter as much as white comfort. One speaker also said the police should not be called unless you need an armed response because that's what they do.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

BULLDOG said:


> BlackSand said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...



Because it's probably not them saying race is not an issue. Look, you have to be black to understand some things.  When a white person says something like that 9 out of 10 times it means they have a pre conceived idea about blacks. Why do I say this? Because when a white person says something like this the general response is to ask them what they mean. Now what I do not understand is how so many of you are stuck on that one comment while missing the entirety of what was said in the article. I am done discussing this one sentence most of the whites here have blown out of proportion because they can't understand why we can't see that something said most of time to blacks as an insult is supposed be looked at as an awkward way whites are trying to say they don't see race because nobody white is a racist only we blacks are therefore we just misinterpret everything whites do every day all the time forever. I'm sorry bulldog, I know you mean no harm, but I'm tired of discussing this comment. So can we go on and discuss other parts of this article bulldog?


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## Uncensored2008 (Jun 9, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...




Opposing whites is not the same as opposing white racism.

Attempting to claim that racism by whites is bad, but racism by black is good is evil.


----------



## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> MarcATL said:
> 
> 
> > Because these white women felt uncomfortable...somehow.
> ...


What? Is there a scientific metric of  say, white comfort level?  Is there a barometer you stick up their white wazoo? And it magically measures stuff? This seems more like somebody with a Ouija board threw  shit  in an effort to see  what sticks. Pishposh.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> > BlackSand said:
> ...



Race is a kludge that racist pigs like you use to try and coerce others into obedience to your desires.

You're a racist pig. That you think the fact that you only hate whites makes your racism okay, only magnifies the fact that you are a racist pig.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



Turn black or any other color but white and see how much milking is really going on. History shows us there is no black privilege because blacks have not failed. But we have faced obstacles created by whites that has reduced our success. This a fact that is non debatable.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > BULLDOG said:
> ...



I don't hate anyone idiot.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...





Yeah, we see that racist boi...


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



You can hear yourself?


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



I’ll say what racism is not. It is not complaining about racism directed at blacks by whites. It is not the angry response to the built in disrespect of a persons humanity by the race that thinks they are superior either. It is not the animosity built up in those who have been the ones disrespected by the race that thinks they are superior. A lot of whites do not seem to understand what white racism has done and then want to quickly call racism the angry reaction, responses and animosity created by white racism.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




We can hear you, bigot boi.

Racism is the hatred of people due to the color of their skin.

You seem to think it only applies to black skin, but your hatred of whites is every bit as vile as Bull Conner or Orval Faubus.

Changing the victim doesn't erase the crime.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




Of course, because you see whites as naturally inferior, hence your hatred of whites is not racist in your diseased mind, it's just right.

You ARE a racist, you judge by the color of a mans skin rather than the content of a mans soul.


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## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Well, ok, I give the devil his due. I have seen my share of white racist , true. I have lived with blacks a large  majority of my life. And well, some were damn more intelligent than I could hope  to be , some were dumb as a sack of hammers. I respect blacks. But what is holding anyone back is plain pure and simply just giving up and accepting things as they are. Humans  sometimes act more like a herd animal, and that is the problem in American poor black communities. It's like they just gave up. And that is sad.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



Great point.

I don't respect blacks.

I respect James XXXXX because he is a brilliant network technician. That James is black is irrelevant, he is a brilliant man.

I have no respect for the greasy fool on the stingray bike who tries to intimidate passers by as he pan handles. That the fool is white is irrelevant, he is a scumbag.

I don't respect anyone because of skin color, and unlike IM2, I don't hate anyone because of skin color. I take people as they come. Some are good, some are bad.


----------



## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

What I disagree with  is this sense of ennui poor blacks glom onto, make that their  cultural baggage and then accept it as inevitable. It's like some predetermination or their  inevitable fate they cant avoid.  They can't help being perennial victims. Because  pseudo white privilege trumps free will and determination  by poor blacks somehow...


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Try showing us the racist laws and policies enacted by blacks made to purposefully deny whites of anything or make life harder on whites based in false stereotypes.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



I don't hate anyone because of skin color, and you repeating that all the time doesn't make it so.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...




When Affirmative Action Is A Quota System

No problem.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...




Your entire Schtick is your anti-white racism.

It is the only thing you bring to this forum.


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## DOTR (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Blacks were eating real well before whites got there thank you.



  Only when eating each other.


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## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


Aren't you a saint. Cast aspersions , negate critics and rave  like a delusional fool. I take your comments with a ton of salt.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> What I disagree with  is this sense of ennui poor blacks glom onto, make that their  cultural baggage and then accept it as inevitable. It's like some predetermination or their  inevitable fate they cant avoid.  They can't help being perennial victims. Because  pseudo white privilege trumps free will and determination  by poor blacks somehow...



Maybe you need to educate yourself as to what's really going on.

*Race and Ethnicity *

Unemployment and poverty rates in the U.S. have consistently been higher among people of color, while levels of income and wealth among these groups have trailed the general population. EPI’s Program on Race, Ethnicity, and the Economy works to advance policies that ensure racial and ethnic minorities participate fully in the American economy, and benefit equitably from gains in prosperity.

Race and Ethnicity


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

DOTR said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Blacks were eating real well before whites got there thank you.
> ...



Like whites did at Jamestown?


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...



I'm neither anti white or racist.

OBTW this is the race and racism section. I'm not going to talk about fishing here.


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## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > What I disagree with  is this sense of ennui poor blacks glom onto, make that their  cultural baggage and then accept it as inevitable. It's like some predetermination or their  inevitable fate they cant avoid.  They can't help being perennial victims. Because  pseudo white privilege trumps free will and determination  by poor blacks somehow...
> ...


Well may you should, too. I wasn't bullshitting, I actually lived with flesh and blood people that are black . I don't need lectures from  a creep like YOU. I see the hopelessness in the community, and that is purely  because people have just given up. I don't know were to go with that, but blacks CAN and SHOULD try harder than this blame game. And YOU know it.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



So I guess I am just supposed to agree with the racist bullshit you post. Would that make you feel better mawy?


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## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


I think,  given careful  introspection, you are either an idiot, a troll or a delusional black racist that needs a diaper change. Wah WAH..careful, you are on the edge of oblivion (ignore). Tread softly here, kiddo. Respect is a 2 way street.


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



Don't step out of bounds lady. I'm 57 years old and black. That means I grew up black living with blacks, I have grown old being black and living with blacks,. So I can lecture you. Everything you posted is incorrect. Now I have given you links to information so that you can see how things are really being done. You can read them and begin to question your cities policies or you can ignore them and keep talking stupid. Because you talk about this high rate of violence but you are stull in that community living. So then it's safer there than you lie about here. The choice is yours. I know what the problem is, you don't, and that's the difference.


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## MizMolly (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


What obstacles today?


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## IM2 (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



The problem is that you aren't thinking. For I can bust your ass so fast with facts that your head will spin. Therefore I'm not the delusional one. Nor can you post a quote by me that is racist. Yeah respect is a two way street but you only seem to think that your way is both ways.


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## MizMolly (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
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I will be 62 tomorrow. I am white and have lived with whites all my life.i know a lot more about being white than you do, although you want people to think you are the expert on whiteness.


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## MizMolly (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Most of your "facts" is just cut and paste that you read online but if any white person does that, you dispute the validity.


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## LOIE (Jun 9, 2018)

MaryL said:


> What I disagree with  is this sense of ennui poor blacks glom onto, make that their  cultural baggage and then accept it as inevitable. It's like some predetermination or their  inevitable fate they cant avoid.  They can't help being perennial victims. Because  pseudo white privilege trumps free will and determination  by poor blacks somehow...


There is a Baldwin quote in the book I am reading:  “Whatever you describe to another person is also a revelation of who you are and who you think you are. You cannot describe anything without betraying your point of view, your aspirations, your fears, your hopes, everything.”


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## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


So how is what I posted RACIST?  Isn't that sort of...a matter of opinion? But IM2 has rock solid proof I or anyone else is a racist.  Or does he? Perhaps it subjective and he knows it. Can you prove racism? By what
standard?  Lets take this a step at a time. Prove it. prove I am left handed or right handed, prove it. Prove I am male or female, prove it. Well the proof is the pudding . Don't allege it because you don't like the message .


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## MaryL (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
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> > IM2 said:
> ...


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## Unkotare (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
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Racist troll


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## Unkotare (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
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Liar.


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## DOTR (Jun 9, 2018)

IM2 said:


> DOTR said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



  White policies killing Zimbabwean gays:




 

   White policies in Zimbabwe having a political discussion:



 


   White policies enforcing a little, harmless , trip down to the police station Zimbabwean justice:



 

   I think you should flee this oppressive white country for the black paradise of Zimbabwe. Or Rawanda. Or Haiti. Or Uganda. 
   Or...we’ll theres lots to choose from. And take every other America hating, third world Democrat you can find with you.  You  can all “resist democracy we much” there.


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## sparky (Jun 10, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



One 'city' i lived in long ago was a sanctuary for Cambodians fleeing

They had all sorts of problems assimilating into the American scene ,as we  apparently have some stark cultural differences.

The city even had to hire a number of asian cops, just to communicate ,bridge that gap, keep the peace, etc.  A LOT of racial tension existed....

They opened up all manner of ethnic biz, i can recall wondering where they managed to obtain some of the foods their markets offered ,or how they might have slipped by the FDA.

They would purchase one run down ,if not condemned property, and turn it around via dozens and dozens of collective hands , then move to the next,  not every building code being addressed...

Despite the cities populace being standoffish on '_housing the enemy_'. per se', ,  the 'city policy' was accomodating ,as these people were industrious entrepenures who sought to better themselves, and their community by proxy

I guess this was disneyland compared to their former existence ,and they didn't '_suck off the system_' for too long either...

And they were _1st generation_ immigrants

So *IM2,* you show us a black community, given the same checks and balances, who've had what? _3-4-5 generations_, doing the same.....

~S~


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## John Shaw (Jun 10, 2018)

I suggest y'all stop responding to IM2.


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## MaryL (Jun 10, 2018)

John Shaw said:


> I suggest y'all stop responding to IM2.


It's for the best, don't feed that specific pig. Pearls before swine...


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## squeeze berry (Jun 11, 2018)

MarcATL said:


> squeeze berry said:
> 
> 
> > I*MO it is OK for anyone to be racist regardless of ethnicity. *It's when they are sanctimonious and hypocritical that it needs to be addressed
> ...


 

what it means is that I don't feel it is necessary to defend myself from accusations of racism and being racist because it is such a subjective term, used too often and directed at whites only. It is too easy to accuse someone instead of using facts.

I am also coming around to the position of instead of saying something/ someone is racist proving them wrong with facts.
 some people  consider facts to be racist. I'll continue to use facts others can continue to use opinions and lies to support their position.


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## Desperado (Jun 11, 2018)

Blacksplaning Racism = It is all the fault of the White People


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

Desperado said:


> Blacksplaning Racism = It is all the fault of the White People


Gradient Lair - Why Whites Call People Of Colour “Racist”


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 11, 2018)

Correll said:


> MizMolly said:
> 
> 
> > Delores Paulk said:
> ...



Ill mannered children? How about extreme right wing, racist nuts like you?

No, you don't speak for "normal" white people, nor do I speak for all black people. 

That being said, feel free to repost anything that I have stated that sounds like a "lecture".....even to fringe loonies like you.


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## ATL (Jun 11, 2018)

IM2 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



So, did they ever produce the quotes, or are they just going with the usual stupid plan of just calling everything they dont agree with, racist?


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## JoeMoma (Jun 11, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Oh no!  You just broke one of IM2's rules.  By saying you don't judge people based on color you are "whitesplaning" and being racist (by being the opposite of racist).


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## Unkotare (Jun 11, 2018)

JoeMoma said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...




Oh! You whites!


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## JoeMoma (Jun 11, 2018)

Uncensored2008 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


I don't know if IM2 and Asclepais are the same person or not, but Its kind of like clark kent and superman.  They aren't usually at the same place together.


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## Unkotare (Jun 11, 2018)

JoeMoma said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...





Ah! Two whites! Man of Steel? Man of Privilege, I say unto you whiiiiiiites!!!


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## MizMolly (Jun 11, 2018)

JoeMoma said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


I don't think so, IM2 is hateful


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## LOIE (Jun 11, 2018)

MaryL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...


A google search will reveal successful Black communities which were destroyed by white folks. Rosewood and the Black Wall Street are the well known ones. It is also known that when blacks tried to move into white neighborhoods they were often burned out. Great effort has been made to keep blacks “in their place.”

There’s a story of Sisyphus, who was made to push a boulder up a hill. He would get it near the top only to have it fall back down. I heard someone say recently that he never got the rock over the top because he was doing it alone.

When black folks have pushed and pulled together they have always been met with resistance from those who, while they insist that blacks make it on their own, are the first to destroy whatever they manage to build together. I am certain there is some depression, exhaustion, hopelessness and despair in some communities. Perhaps we should get behind the rock ourselves and help them push.


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## LOIE (Jun 11, 2018)

MizMolly said:


> JoeMoma said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...


I disagree. I do not equate anger with hatred. I do not equate passion with hatred. I do not equate frustration with hatred.


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## boedicca (Jun 11, 2018)

Yet another racist race baiting thread started by one of the board's notoriously racist race baiters.


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## Natural Citizen (Jun 11, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> I disagree. I do not equate anger with hatred. I do not equate passion with hatred. I do not equate frustration with hatred.



Nor racism with collectivism. And therein lies the shortcoming in the entire topic every time it comes up. Which seems daily around here.

Racism is just an ugly form of collectivism. But friends don't want to acknowledge that, do they?  To acknowledge it renders one's arbitrary victim status card useless.


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## LOIE (Jun 11, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> > Blacksplaning Racism = It is all the fault of the White People
> ...


That's a great article!


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## Unkotare (Jun 11, 2018)

RaaAAAaaah! You whites!


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## LOIE (Jun 11, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Delores Paulk said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree. I do not equate anger with hatred. I do not equate passion with hatred. I do not equate frustration with hatred.
> ...


Yet individuals do have negative experiences which can point to a certain group and their attitudes towards them. If a black man is called the "n" word by a white person, if he is then beaten by a white policeman, if he is then passed over for promotion in favor of a white man, if he is then denied housing in a certain neighborhood, won't that be seen as a broader problem, not just an individual one?


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## Unkotare (Jun 11, 2018)

BllaaaAAAAaaaah! You whites! Verily do I say unto you ----- whites!


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## Natural Citizen (Jun 11, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> Yet individuals do have negative experiences which can point to a certain group and their attitudes towards them. If a black man is called the "n" word by a white person, if he is then beaten by a white policeman, if he is then passed over for promotion in favor of a white man, if he is then denied housing in a certain neighborhood, won't that be seen as a broader problem, not just an individual one?



Yes, Individuals do have negative experiences. But Individual experiences don't entitle you or anyone else the arbitrary position or luxury to then view all other humans only as members of groups and never as Individuals just because an Individual has a negative experience, however.

To do so, makes you no better. Racists believe that all individuals who share superficial physical characteristics are alike. As collectivists, racists think only in terms of groups. That's what you're doing. You can deny it, but I'm right. When Americans are encouraged to adopt a group mentality, which is what youre doing whe nyou say everyting about whites on here the way you do,, you're actually perpetuating racism. The intense focus that you and the other one have on on race is inherently racist, because you're, yourselves, looking at Individuals like us only as members of racial groups rather than Individuals.

Your constant insistence on group thinking only inflames racial tensions. And that's really what you want. Right? Of course, I'm right. And you know it.  This is the modern liberal, statist mindset. Throw up your arbitrary victim status card and attempt to garner some kind of institutionalized equality to see what you can get out of it. I have news for you. There's no such thing as equality. Some people are just naturally more gifted than other people. There is only institutionalized equality. That's the  modern liberal, statist, way.


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## Unkotare (Jun 11, 2018)

Aiyeeee! Los blancos!!!!!!


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 11, 2018)

The High Price of Stale Grievances - Quillette


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

Manonthestreet said:


> The High Price of Stale Grievances - Quillette



If the  grievance was stale your article would have merit. But an issue isn't sale because a portion of the white community says it is when we see continued instances of what the grievance is based on.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Jun 11, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*
> 
> ...


Need to stop their Constitutional right of free speech ?


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Delores Paulk said:
> 
> 
> > Yet individuals do have negative experiences which can point to a certain group and their attitudes towards them. If a black man is called the "n" word by a white person, if he is then beaten by a white policeman, if he is then passed over for promotion in favor of a white man, if he is then denied housing in a certain neighborhood, won't that be seen as a broader problem, not just an individual one?
> ...



This individual bull is only bought up here to derail the conversation. When whites here speak to us about welfare there is no thought of individualism. When whites here talk about crime and violence there is no thought of individualism When whites here talk about the black culture that's group think. So I see no need to  pay attention to this argument  that's used in a one sided manner.

*“Whites are individuals” *is a common argument brought up by White Americans. It is part of a set of closely related arguments:


*Whites are individuals.* There are all kinds – bikers, soccer moms, coal miners, business men, goths, etc – so you cannot make general statements about them.
*To make a general statement about Whites is itself racist.* It is stereotyping them. It is hypocritical. It is seeing them according to skin colour and that is racist.
*The “not all Whites” argument:* “All Whites are not like that”. They bring this up even when no one said all Whites were anything. But that is how they heard it. It amounts a straw man argument.
*Just for the record, I do know that Whites are individuals.* I live in America, a country that is mostly White: I work with them, they are on television and presented as individuals with their own storylines and not as racist stereotypes or even as too-good-to-be-true supporting characters.

*On the other hand….*

It does seem like _most _of them, like *at least 60%*, at least in the Greater New York Metropolitan Area, all went to the same Secret Course on Whiteness. They* do act in certain common ways, ways that support racism*.

*The most maddening part* is that in America it is Whites who draw the line between themselves and everyone else. They are the ones who apply the colour line and all the injustice that goes with it. They are making themselves White – and yet they do not want to be seen as White!

_– Abagond, 2009, 2015.

“Whites are individuals”_

*The “not all whites” argument* is a common straw man argument. I will make some statement about whites and then be informed that “not all whites” are like that, that they are Individuals. *Like there is some special rule of English that “whites” always means “all whites”*. Even when I say “some whites” or “most whites” it can still be taken to mean “all whites” – since clearly I only put in those words as a cheap trick to fool people.

In America, according to the government numbers, whites are supposedly better at reading than blacks. I would never know that from this blog: Only rarely do black commenters seriously misunderstand me while it is quite common for whites. And this imagined “all” before “whites” – which is *not in any grammar book I know of* – is one of the main causes.

*Example:* When I say, *“Whites owned slaves*” it hardly means they all owned slaves. As far as I know no more than 2% of White Americans ever did. Yet that does not make the statement untrue or meaningless. Because quantity is not the issue – it was never stated. To make quantity the issue is a derailment. To assume it means “All whites owned slaves” is putting words in my mouth and creating a straw man argument.

*Side note:* On this blog, unless it is otherwise clear, *“white”* mostly means just White Americans, though  most of what I say seems to apply to English-speaking whites in general.

Since the “all whites” thing is not in any grammar book I wonder where it comes from. The best reason I have heard so far is that many White Americans use *dichotomous thinking*, seeing things as either-or.  That means it is easy for them to think of whites as either being all the same or all Unique Individuals Unaffected by Race or Culture, leaving little middle ground between the two extremes.

*So if I say “whites are racist”* it is taken to mean that all whites are racist and racist in the same way. As if I said, “All whites are skinhead racists.”  But *what is in my head is a range:*


from skinhead racists
to Jim Crow racists
to scientific racists
to “The Bell Curve” sorts
to black pathologists
to white Republicans
to ordinary colour-blind racists
to white liberal racists
to white anti-racist racists
to those souls who are not racist at all
to those who fought against the slave trade
to the white Freedom Riders
to John Brown
– and much more besides.

*I know whites are individuals*. I live in a country that is mostly white. I have to deal with whites at work. I watch American film and television where whites are given whole story lines complete with a love life, where they are almost never reduced to stereotypes as whites.

So I expect them to be individuals. Which makes it all the more surprising and interesting to me when they do seem to act from a* hive mind*.

The “not all whites” argument


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> ...



That seems to be what whitesplaining does to blacks.


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## Natural Citizen (Jun 11, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Natural Citizen said:
> 
> 
> > Delores Paulk said:
> ...




I'm not reading all of that. Get back in your hole, ya collectivist, statist, hack.


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## MizMolly (Jun 11, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> MizMolly said:
> 
> 
> > JoeMoma said:
> ...


Well then he is angry at any white people who disagree with him. He should be frustrated at himself for calling virtually all white posters racist when they arent.


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## Natural Citizen (Jun 11, 2018)

Matter of fact, does anyone at all click on im2 links aside from his fellow arbitrary victims? I know I don't. lol.


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Natural Citizen said:
> ...



Of course you aren't because it destroys the lie you just argued. Go back to the septic tank.


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> Matter of fact, does anyone at all click on im2 links aside from his fellow arbitrary victims? I know I don't. lol.



But you are the one playing victim.


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## MizMolly (Jun 11, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Natural Citizen said:
> 
> 
> > Delores Paulk said:
> ...


You are the one grouping all whites. When you bring up anything negative, it is You Whites and you want all American whites to pay for the misery of history. That pretty much puts us all as one


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

ATL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



No quotes ever. I'm a racist only because they say sp.


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

JoeMoma said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



It's funny how you think you can make up rules that don't exist.


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

JoeMoma said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Well if you could the ip addresses you would understand that we aren't.


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## Natural Citizen (Jun 11, 2018)

IM2 said:


> But you are the one playing victim.



Nope. I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of you and your friend's racist, collectivist, tendency.

Natty C wins the thread.

Anyway. Your hole. Pst. That way -------------------


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

Natural Citizen said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Natural Citizen said:
> ...



If I said that on the street you'd listen to it.. OK? Let's not talk tough on the internet. You are playing the victim and the only hypocrisy is yours. Get back in the septic tank.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 11, 2018)

ATL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > MaryL said:
> ...



It's the latter, ATL. And will always be.


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## Manonthestreet (Jun 11, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> > The High Price of Stale Grievances - Quillette
> ...


Written by a black dude....oooooooops


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## IM2 (Jun 11, 2018)

Manonthestreet said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Manonthestreet said:
> ...



And that's supposed to matter? Since you posted the article try this:

Prove when racism ended and its effects were allayed. Show, with data and peer-reviewed studies supporting your argument, when the effects of the hundreds of years of anti-Black racism from chattel slavery through Old Jim Crow leveled off. Show when the wealth expropriated during that oppression was repaid to those it was expropriated from and through. And remember, after you’ve addressed the end of anti-Black racism you’ll still have to explain when anti-Latinx, anti-Asian, anti-Arab, and anti-Native racism came to an end as well.


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## Unkotare (Jun 11, 2018)

Yuuuuuuuu Whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

*“The White Anti-Racist is an Oxymoron”* (2003) by* Kil Ja Kim* argues that you cannot be white and against racism at the same time.

By *“white”* she does not mean having white skin. She means thinking of yourself as white and enjoying the benefits that come with it in America:

white people need to be willing to have their very social position, their very relationship of domination, their very authority, their very being…let go, perhaps even destroyed.  I know this might sound scary, but that is really not my concern.  I am not interested in making white people, even those so-called good-hearted anti-racist whites, comfortable about their position in struggles that shape my life in ways that it will never shape theirs.

*Being white creates a conflict of interest that leads to white paternalism*: whites who think they know what is best for people of colour.

Kim has seen it. So has bell hooks. So has* Malcolm X:*

So if we need white allies in this country, we don’t need those kind who compromise. We don’t need those kind who encourage us to be polite, responsible, you know. We don’t need those kind who give us that kind of advice. We don’t need those kind who tell us how to be patient. No, if we want some white allies, we need the kind that John Brown was, or we don’t need you.

*John Brown* led a slave uprising on the eve of the civil war: he died fighting for the freedom of black people.

*Becoming anti-racist means* giving up a white identity and standing with people of colour, not with white people. Come what may. It means not to lead people of colour but to follow. It means leaving the white club for good.

*Kim breaks it down like this:*


Don’t call us, we’ll call you. If we need your resources, we will contact you. But don’t show up, flaunt your power in our faces and then get angry when we resent the fact that you have so many resources we don’t and that we are not grateful for this arrangement. And don’t get mad because you can’t make decisions in the process. Why do you need to?
Stop speaking for us. We can talk for ourselves.
Stop trying to point out internal contradictions in our communities, we know what they are, we are struggling around them, and I really don’t know how white people can be helpful to non-whites to clear these up.
Don’t ever say some shit to me about how you feel silenced, marginalized, discriminated against, or put in your place as a white person. Period.
Stop calling me sister. I will tell you when you are family.
Start thinking of what it would mean, in terms of actual structured social arrangements, for whiteness and white identity – even the white anti-racist kind (because there really is no redeemable or reformed white identity) – to be destroyed.
White Anti Racists Open Letter By Tamara Nopper


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

_The following is based mainly on chapter two of “Racism Without Racists” (2010) by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, a professor of sociology at Duke University. He has studied colour-blind racism, the more subtle sort of racism that took the place of Jim Crow racism among White Americans after the 1960s._

Eduardo Bonilla-Silva asked samples of *White Americans*, most of them born between 1940 and 1980, questions about race issues. He noticed that *at least half of them used each of the following four frames:*


*Abstract liberalism* – the key word here is “abstract”. Unlike Jim Crow racists, most whites now agree that all Americans, regardless of race, should have equal rights and equal opportunities. But it is just lip service. When asked about government policies that could bring about such equality, like affirmative action or busing, most whites will find one reason or another to oppose them and fail to offer any other solid measure. Freedom, democracy and equality are not things to be achieved but just empty words to dress up the way things are in America – and to dress up the racism of white people.
*Minimization of racism* – Most whites believe there is still discrimination against blacks, but it is not as bad as it used to be and it is no longer the main thing holding blacks back. Instead it is their culture:
*Cultural racism* – Unlike Jim Crow racists, most whites no longer believe that there is anything wrong with blacks biologically. Instead it is cultural: mostly bad families, bad values and a bad work ethic – black pathologies, blaming the victim. Some note that blacks use racism as an excuse and expect handouts.
*Naturalization of racism* – racist practices in society, like highly segregated schools and neighbourhoods and low rates of interracial marriage, are seen as “natural”, as a part of human nature – not as the outcome of white racism. That means it is no one’s fault, that there is little that can be done to change it.
The frames are* mixed and matched as required *by the argument at hand. The frames help to support each other. For example, minimizing racism makes an abstract liberalism seem more acceptable. The frames can be used in a straightforward way (“Blacks are lazy”) or more subtly (“It is hard being a single mother”).

*Whites think they are a better judge of racism* than blacks, particularly since blacks tend to imagine racism when it is not there.

*The truth is* blacks imagine little. Discrimination in hiring, housing and education has been well documented. The government should take forceful action to end it as it goes against the American value of equal opportunity for all regardless of race.

*Yet almost no white person talks like that*. Instead they use the frames to avoid saying anything like that. At best they will admit to discrimination but then discount its effects. Or they will say they believe in equality of opportunity but then find reasons to oppose any policy with the teeth to achieve it.

colour-blind racism: the four frames


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## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> 
> *6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)*




*ULTIMATE SIGN OF A HATEFUL FULL-ON RACIST AND BIGOT:*  a person whose every thread they post to or start has something to do with race and white-bashing, as if this was the only thing that consumed their life . . . .


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.
> ...



Funny how you don't say this to whites here about their threads bashing blacks. And how you participate in the bashing. This is the race and racism section maggot.


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## ATL (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Evidently the guy being black, and says what the white nationalist like to hear, it means he is supposed to portray what blacks are supposed to think like...however, when someone brings up Tim Wise, then the same white nationalists consider him a race traitor.......

'murica


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

ATL said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Manonthestreet said:
> ...



So true.


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## squeeze berry (Jun 12, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




  let us know what rights blacks don't have.

I'll wait


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## Correll (Jun 12, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > MizMolly said:
> ...




1. As nothing I have ever said, justifies you calling me a "racist nut", FUCK YOU, YOU RACE BAITING ASSHOLE.

2. And I do speak for the majority of white people. We are done with shit like that. DONE. It is only our moronic leadership, fearful of being called names by the vile media, that is still happy to play by your rules. There is a reason that Trump won the majority of the white vote.


3. Your post, right here, is a fine example of a lecture, though a small and mercifully short one.


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

*The Baldwin-Kennedy meeting* (May 24th 1963) was when Robert Kennedy met James Baldwin to talk at length about race in America.

*Dramatis Personae:*


*Robert Kennedy* – president’s brother, Attorney General. He brought:
*Burke Marshall* – the government’s top civil rights person.
_*Also:*_ Ed Guthman, press aide.

*James Baldwin* – writer. He brought:
*Lorraine Hansberry* – playwright;
*Jerome Smith* – called “Gandhi Two” for his commitment to nonviolence. CORE, Freedom Rider;
*Clarence B. Jones* – Baldwin’s and Martin Luther King, Jr’s lawyer;
*Kenneth Clark* – psychologist.
_*Also:*_
Lena Horne,
Harry Belafonte,
Edwin C. Berry (Urban League),
June Shagaloff (NAACP),
Rip Torn (white actor from Texas),
Henry Morgenthau III (television producer),
Robert P. Mills (Baldwin’s literary agent, editor of _Ellery Queen’s Mystery Magazine_),
David Baldwin (brother),
Thais Aubrey (David’s friend),
Edward False (Baldwin’s secretary),
young SNCC activist.





Picture from the Birmingham protests, which ended just two weeks before this meeting

*This was just after the Birmingham protests* – fire hoses, dogs, Bull Connor, King’s “Letter from Birmingham Jail”, all of that.





*Kennedy* said Negroes were listening to dangerous extremists, like Malcolm X, which could cause real trouble.





*Jerome Smith:* “You don’t have no idea what trouble is. Because I’m close to the moment where I’m ready to take up a gun. … When I pull the trigger kiss it goodbye.”





*Baldwin*, to underscore Smith’s pacifism, asked him if he would fight for America in Cuba.





*Smith:* “Never, Never, Never!”





*Kennedy*: _(shocked)_ “How can you say that?!”





*Clark* was shocked that Kennedy was shocked.





*Smith *“just put it like it was. He communicated the plain, basic suffering of being a Negro.  … You could not encompass his anger, his fury, with a set of statistics.” (in Horne’s words.)





*Kennedy* was getting redder and redder. He reminded Smith of the seriousness of military obligations.





*Smith* said that being in the same room with Kennedy made him want to throw up.





*Kennedy* turned away from him.





*Hansberry*: “Look, if you can’t understand what this young man is saying then we are without any hope at all because you and your brother are representatives of the best that a white America can offer, and if you are insensitive to this, then there’s no alternative except our going in the streets.”





*Kennedy *told them how hard it was for his Irish ancestors when they arrived in America a hundred years ago. He said maybe in 40 years there will be a black president.





*Baldwin*: “Your family has been here for three generations. My family has been here far longer than that. Why is your brother at the top while we are still so far away? That is the heart of the problem.”





*Jones* (or Smith) said the president should escort black students to the all-white University of Alabama: “That way it will be clear that whoever spits on that child will be spitting on the nation.”







*Kennedy and Marshall* laughed.

*Kennedy*: “It would be meaningless moral gesture.”





*Hansberry*: “We would like from you, a moral commitment.”





*Marshall* spoke of “special men” in the FBI who protected civil rights workers. This produced almost hysterical laughter.





*Kennedy* could not talk to them the way he could talk to Dr King. They stood up, orated, cursed, cried. They were emotional, hysterical, “possessed”.

*After three hours it ended in exhaustion. *Kennedy was _not getting it. _

_– Abagond, 2013, 2018.

The Baldwin-Kennedy meeting

_


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

*Robert Kennedy after the Baldwin-Kennedy meeting*
Monday June 11th 2018 by abagond





_On May 24th 1963 Robert Kennedy met with James Baldwin to discuss race in the US. I already did a post on the meeting itself. This one is mainly about what Kennedy and those who knew him said about it afterwards._

*Baldwin brought at least 15 people*. Among them were Lorraine Hansberry, Lena Horne, Harry Belafonte, and Kenneth Clark (he of the Doll Experiment). This was just weeks after the Birmingham protests – fire hoses, police dogs, Bull Connor, King’s “Letter from Birmingham Jail”, all of that.





*Enter Jerome Smith:* The “cocktail-party patter” was soon swept away by the fury and anger of Jerome Smith. He was a Freedom Rider and CORE activist whose face and jaw had been badly beaten by police.

*Kennedy tried to shut Smith down.*

*Blacks closed ranks* behind Smith. Then came the flood: they spoke like it was their one chance to tell Robert Kennedy what they truly thought, their rage running free. He had never seen so much naked, Black pain before. It shook him.

*Tone argument: *After the meeting Kennedy was in a rage:

“They don’t know what the laws are. They don’t know what we’ve been doing or what we’re trying to do. You can’t talk to them the way you can talk to Martin Luther King or Roy Wilkins. They didn’t want to talk that way.

“It was all emotion, hysteria – they stood up and orated – they cursed – some of them wept and left the room.”

*Ad hominem:* Baldwin, Kennedy noted, was a homosexual (using an impolite word for that) and a “nut”. And:

“[A] number of them … I think, have complexes about the fact that they’ve been successful, they’ve done so well and this poor boy had been beaten by the police.”

Kennedy said they felt guilty that:

“they really hadn’t done their best … hadn’t done what they should have done for the Negro. So the way to show that they hadn’t forgotten where they came from was to berate me and berate the United States government.”

*No ghetto pass for Kennedy:* Nicholas Katzenbach, who was not at the meeting but who worked under Kennedy at the time as deputy attorney general (the Rod Rosenstein of his day), said:

“Bobby expected to be made an honorary black. [The meeting] really hurt his feelings, and it was pretty mean. But the fact that he thought he knew so much – and learned he didn’t – was important.”




From Baldwin’s FBI file, which even lists his extracurricular activities from high school. (Via MuckRock)

*FBI surveillance for Baldwin and friends:* Kennedy started or continued FBI surveillance on many of those who came to the meeting – even Rip Torn, who was White. Much of the 1,884 pages in Baldwin’s FBI file are from after the meeting.

*In the long run*, though, Robert Kennedy had enough honesty and empathy to understand that what they told him was more or less the truth:

“I guess if I were in his [Jerome Smith’s] shoes, if I had gone through what he’s gone through, I might feel differently about this country.”




Robert Kennedy five years later: May 15th 1968 in Detroit. One month later he would be dead. (Andrew Sacks/Getty Images, via NPR)

_– Abagond, 2018.

Robert Kennedy after the Baldwin-Kennedy meeting_


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## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Funny how you don't say this to whites here about their threads bashing blacks. And how you participate in the bashing. This is the race and racism section maggot.



A).  Show me a thread bashing Blacks, asshole.
B).  Show me where I "participated."
C).  It isn't bashing if it is merely stating a fact.
D).  Any such threads started by or participated in by others, at least it isn't THE ONLY TOPIC they ever involve in!


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how you don't say this to whites here about their threads bashing blacks. And how you participate in the bashing. This is the race and racism section maggot.
> ...



The majority of the threads here bash blacks. Given that we can't look at what you post, then it's easy for you to lie abut your participation. And if you are saying it's not bashing if it is merely stating facts, I'm not bashing whites. Because you guys have posted no facts. I have.

It's not the only section I'm involved in but you can show the where the rules here say you must participate in a specific different number of topics.


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## ATL (Jun 12, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


LoL, the cross burning will be extra bright tonight.....


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## ATL (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Funny how you don't say this to whites here about their threads bashing blacks. And how you participate in the bashing. This is the race and racism section maggot.
> ...



B.  Is kinda the point he was making.  You are nowhere to be found in the black bashing threads, nor accusing the bashers of being racist, yet you willingly show up in threads highlighting racism by whites trying to deflect with the loudest voice on calling the OP racist.

Classic qui tacet consentire videtur.


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

ATL said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



*US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum - Error *
This member limits who may view their full profile.

This is some people will get you when you try to look for his posts. You can't go in his profile to see what he has posted or his threads. He knows that and then asks people to show where he does those things knowing that.


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## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *The majority of the threads here bash blacks.*



More than 50% of ALL threads here among, what, 47,000 members are all bashing blacks?  Do you know how many threads that is?  YOU are a crackpot delusional racist!



> Given that we can't look at what you post,



Sure you can.  And if you haven't seen or read any of my posts, HOW DO YOU KNOW I'M BASHING BLACKS you fuckhead?



> then it's easy for you to lie abut your participation.



If I'm "lying about my participation" you white-hating bigot, then easy------  PROVE IT.  SHOW US THE EVIDENCE OR STFU and drop dead.



> And if you are saying it's not bashing if it is merely stating facts, I'm not bashing whites. Because you guys have posted no facts. I have.



Facts are facts because they are independently corroborated from unbiased sources.  And who the hell are "you guys?"  What guys?  You are a total idiot consumed with bigotry and hate for whites and yourself.  To expect an intelligent conversation out of you is a total waste of one's time.  Even your avatar is racist and anti-white.


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## KissMy (Jun 12, 2018)

Whites are so Oppressing Blacks - LOL!!!


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

ATL said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



There is a fool in another section who says the union was on the wrong side during the civil war. This is the kind of shit that's allowed to grow here. But let me start a thread about  the NOI and it will be closed in less than an hour.


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## KissMy (Jun 12, 2018)




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## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2018)

ATL said:


> B.  Is kinda the point he was making.  You are nowhere to be found in the black bashing threads, nor accusing the bashers of being racist, yet you willingly show up in threads highlighting racism by whites trying to deflect with the loudest voice on calling the OP racist.



So by my mere absence from participating in racist topics, I'm a racist.  

Maybe I don't show up here much because not many of these racial threads are interesting, constructive, or show up in the most active topic column, where I spend most of my time.  Maybe I don't spend a lot of time thinking about racism because I know that the main thing that keeps racism alive are people like you, mostly blacks, who do nothing but see everything in terms of race, division, polarity, and are constantly beating people over the head with it!  Maybe if people just moved on and got over their fucking skin colour and worried about other things, they'd find the world a far better and freer place than they ever imagined.  If you really must know, the only thing that drew me to this thread at all in the first place was the obviously overt trolling of white-bashing in its title.  Tell me, how many whites have you converted so far over into your way of thinking?  Or do you just increase polarity?  I can't remember the last thread I've seen that had an overtly negative, black-hating connotation in its title, but I admit, I don't actually go through the race forum down the column LOOKING for them either.  Got better things to do.  Race is only one more device used by the Left to divide you up into politically-consumable victim groups to maneuver you into another useful voting block for THEM.


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *The majority of the threads here bash blacks.*
> ...



Now let me skip your lying and crying and get direct to the point. Facts are facts and you have been shown the fact that everything you white racists have said about blacks is incorrect.


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> ATL said:
> 
> 
> > B.  Is kinda the point he was making.  You are nowhere to be found in the black bashing threads, nor accusing the bashers of being racist, yet you willingly show up in threads highlighting racism by whites trying to deflect with the loudest voice on calling the OP racist.
> ...



I have to laugh at you . Because you don't believe a word you just said. All you want is for us to shut up so you can keep being a racist.


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## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Now let me skip your lying and crying



Right.  Better skip the fact that you cannot show any proof at all to support your claim that "THE MAJORITY OF THREADS HERE ARE ABOUT BASHING BLACKS."

*OR YOU WOULD.*

Better skip the fact that despite admitting knowing nothing about me and other members, you label others wantonly to suit your racist agenda.

The very fact that you SEE and identify others BASED ON RACE while using a Black Power Avatar shows you to be the BIGGEST RACIST OF THEM ALL.

Hello Racist.


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > toobfreak said:
> ...



The majority of threads in this section as I have consistently stated, are bashing blacks.

You don't get to make up what racism is.

* Definition of racism*
*: *a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 a *: *a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
*b* *: *a political or social system founded on racism 

There is nothing you just said that meets this definition. 

So you're just calling me a racist because you are butthurt by the truth.


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## ATL (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> ATL said:
> 
> 
> > B.  Is kinda the point he was making.  You are nowhere to be found in the black bashing threads, nor accusing the bashers of being racist, yet you willingly show up in threads highlighting racism by whites trying to deflect with the loudest voice on calling the OP racist.
> ...


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## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> The majority of threads in this section as I have consistently stated, are bashing blacks.



What a fucking liar you are.  Its in the transcript:  You said the majority of threads here were against blacks.  HERE is the USMB forum.  You did not confine it to just the Race-Relations folder.  I bet not even the majority of threads in the Race Relations folder are against blacks!  You are a liar.  You are a total loser.  The simple definition of racism is seeing things in terms of race.  That is ALL you see.

Hello Black Power White-hating Racist.


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > The majority of threads in this section as I have consistently stated, are bashing blacks.
> ...



Well yes, I actually have.



IM2 said:


> This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.



The simple definition of racism is this:

*Definition of racism*
*: a belief that **race** is the primary **determinant** of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race*
*2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles*
*b : a political or social system founded on racism*


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## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> I bet not even the majority of threads in the Race Relations folder are against blacks!



I did a simple count going down through all the threads currently on the first page of this race forum.

White-Bashing Threads:  11

Black-Bashing Threads:  2

Neutral Topic:  7

Busted again.

Hello Racist.  Youse a racist!


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 12, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



1. Yes, you are a RACIST NUT. And  anyone who is so hypersensitive to being called a racist in a race relations forum is a joke.

2. No, you do not speak for the majority of white people. For over 40 years  I  worked with mostly white people, socialized with quite a few and there are even some in my family, and have seen very few that surpass your level of arrogant ignorance. If you are so done with being "lectured", maybe you should use your ignore feature,  because you tend to get in return what you put out there.

3.Trump winning  the "white" vote has nothing do with this forum. What is he going to do? Save you from being "insulted in a vile manner?.....ROFLMAO


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## ptbw forever (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *“The White Anti-Racist is an Oxymoron”* (2003) by* Kil Ja Kim* argues that you cannot be white and against racism at the same time.
> 
> By *“white”* she does not mean having white skin. She means thinking of yourself as white and enjoying the benefits that come with it in America:
> 
> ...


Another racist idiot.


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > I bet not even the majority of threads in the Race Relations folder are against blacks!
> ...



Except there are 48 threads here on page 1 and between 5-6,000 threads overall. I looked at 4,000 and saw there were at least 3,000 of them that denigrated blacks . FYI a white like you calling m a racist doesn't do anything. I expect low IQ dumb whites to call me a racist because the information is too complex for their dumb asses to understand, they can't read half the words, and they can't comprehend what's being said.


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## Correll (Jun 12, 2018)

ATL said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...




Says th


katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...




1. Nothing I have ever said, justifies you calling me a racist. YOu are a race baiting asshole.

2. That you think it is unreasonable to not want to be called a vile slur, by an asshole, for no reason, makes you the joke.

3. On this, I do speak for the majority of white people. We are done being lectured like we are ill mannered children, by morons.

4. I mentioned Trump's victory in a point about the majority of whites. It was not in reference to this forum. Obviously.


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

ptbw forever said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *“The White Anti-Racist is an Oxymoron”* (2003) by* Kil Ja Kim* argues that you cannot be white and against racism at the same time.
> ...



Junior you know this is out of your league. So just keep posting funny's before you get treated like you're in the woodshed.


----------



## Correll (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> toobfreak said:
> 
> 
> > toobfreak said:
> ...




You did not look at 4,000 threads.


You are a liar.


----------



## Correll (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




No, he was talking about you, and/or the author of the piece you posted. 


I know that was hard for you to understand. I am glad I was here to explain it to you.


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## ptbw forever (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


I would never talk to black people the way she talks to whites.


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## Correll (Jun 12, 2018)

ptbw forever said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > ptbw forever said:
> ...




Good point. And I agree.


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## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

ptbw forever said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > ptbw forever said:
> ...



That's because blacks aren't doing to you what whites have done to her.


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## Correll (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...




Gave her a job doing nothing but talking shit?


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## ptbw forever (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


Idiots like you do nothing but post lunatics’ rants, while I directly refute everything both you and those lunatics say, while often turning your own arguments against you.


----------



## ptbw forever (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> ptbw forever said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


She is privileged bitch making loads of money off of masochist whites.

I wish blacks were doing something similar to me.


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## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Except there are 48 threads here on page 1 and between 5-6,000 threads overall. I looked at 4,000 and saw there were at least 3,000 of them that denigrated blacks .



Lessee, I'm viewing on a 27" LED Apple Cinema monitor and count 20, not 48.  I've never changed any settings. My ass you've counted and looked at 4,000 threads just on this forum------  Just that claim alone and your continued denigration of people based on being white alone shows what a racist you are.  You probably count ONE POST in a thread bashing blacks as a black-bashing thread!  Did it ever occur to you that YOU cause a lot of the black-bashing by whites just in response to your bashing them?  If you were half as smart as you think you are, you'd simply ignore people who are idiots and racist and move on to better things.  But that would necessitate ignoring yourself.


----------



## mudwhistle (Jun 12, 2018)

NewsVine_Mariyam said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *I guarantee that many whites here will stop reading this after they see the word whites. These are the same people who will read volumes of racist lies about blacks without fail. Yet as they don't they'll be more than glad to post their opinions too stupid to understand they are doing exactly what the writer says.*
> ...



Let me get this right:


If I say I never see the color of one's skin, that's racist?


----------



## ATL (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Except there are 48 threads here on page 1 and between 5-6,000 threads overall. I looked at 4,000 and saw there were at least 3,000 of them that denigrated blacks .
> ...


[emoji23]


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 12, 2018)

ptbw forever said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *“The White Anti-Racist is an Oxymoron”* (2003) by* Kil Ja Kim* argues that you cannot be white and against racism at the same time.
> ...






Besides yourself?


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 12, 2018)

Correll said:


> ATL said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



1. If you object to being referred to as a racist, then use your ignore feature. Then your fragile little feelings would be spared the trauma.
Or....stop being a racist asshole

2. You get "lectured", because you attempt to lecture others and act like a know it all.

3. No you DO NOT speak for anyone else by default just because you are of the same race, saying you do is an ignorant statement. For the most part everyone here is an adult and does not need a self appointed spokesperson.

4. I understand why Trump was elected...so whats your point?


----------



## Correll (Jun 12, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > ATL said:
> ...






1. Nothing I have ever said, justifies you calling me a racist. YOu are a race baiting asshole.

2. The "Lecture" I was referring to was in the context of what passes for the NATIONAL discussion on race.  It is pathetic that you either forgot, or pretended to forget that.

3. I did not claim I spoke for them "based on race." I speak for us, because it is apparent from a number of polls and events in recent history, that the majority of whites agree with me on this issue. THe "based on race" was from the voices in your head, which are not my problem.


4. I mentioned Trump winning the majority of the white vote in support of my point that Whites as a group, are tired of being lectured by morons, about race, like they are ill mannered children.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 12, 2018)

toobfreak said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Except there are 48 threads here on page 1 and between 5-6,000 threads overall. I looked at 4,000 and saw there were at least 3,000 of them that denigrated blacks .
> ...



*Showing threads 1 to 55 of 7,030. *Now that's on the bottom of the first page of this section I see. I've bashed no one just for being white. The black bashing is not being done because of anything I've said. I was a member here for at least a year before I posted. Anybody opposing the racists or any white person standing up for blacks was denigrated and trolled. I first started posting in the politics section and got racially trolled that's how fucked up this place is. I saw what was going on. So keep crying about a racism you made up, changing the definition of racism in every post and live your miserable racist life. Because I'm not shutting up.


----------



## Unkotare (Jun 12, 2018)

You whites! You whites!


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> JoeMoma said:
> 
> 
> > Uncensored2008 said:
> ...




All you hate filled racists look the same...


----------



## toobfreak (Jun 12, 2018)

IM2 said:


> I first started posting in the politics section and got racially trolled that's how fucked up this place is.



Why yes!  This site IS racist!  Why the very pages 
of this forum are racist, they are BLACK ON WHITE!  

Black text on white background------  it's RACIST I tell you, 
RACIST!  I demand restitution, and I'm holding my 
breath until I GET IT!


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 13, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



1. There is plenty to justify referring to you as a "racist nut". Sometimes being called what you REALLY are is difficult to accept. Your personal offense is not my problem.

2. Now you can add "liar" to "racist nut". . You have never defined your whining about being lectured ss a "national discussion" about race, and furthermore, your own quote on several occasions has been "I speak for the majority of white people". There are no "voices in anyones head" here except within the empty space between your ears.

3. As far as Trump goes, if you actually believe that he got the majority of the white vote "because whites as a group are tired of being lectured about race", then you are in an even further advanced state of being completely unhinged than the average definition of that condition.


----------



## Correll (Jun 13, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...





1. Said the asshole race baiter that has never even tried to support his vile accusations. 

2.a. Your characterization of my valid complaint about the state of public dialog in this country as "whining" is just you being an asshole.

2b. My use of "lecture" as being delivered to White America, instead of just myself was obvious, even IF I did not specify it at any point, which I'm pretty sure I did. Regardless if you were too stupid to figure it out, you know now. 

2c My speaking for White America on this specific issue, in no way indicates that I am referring to lectures delivered just to me, as an individual. Indeed, that opposite is very heavily implied. 


3. It is certainly part of it. We are done with your shit. And the more you try to play the same old game of blaming us for everything, and/or demanding ever more shit, the more you will piss us off.


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## Unkotare (Jun 13, 2018)

You do NOT speak for any imaginary “White America.”


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## miketx (Jun 13, 2018)

Does the OP EVER post anything that does not revolve around hating whites?


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## Unkotare (Jun 13, 2018)

miketx said:


> Does the OP EVER post anything that does not revolve around hating whites?



Just like ptbw, he would cease to exist without his cowardice and hate, because that’s all there is to him.


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## Correll (Jun 13, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> You do NOT speak for any imaginary “White America.”




1. It's not imaginary.

2. POlls show that I do. On this issue at least. And that's all I was claiming.


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## Unkotare (Jun 13, 2018)

Correll said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > You do NOT speak for any imaginary “White America.”
> ...



It's complete bullshit


If you want to embrace ptbw and brokeloser, just do it already. You do NOT speak for any 'race' of people any more than im2 or asslipups does.


----------



## Correll (Jun 13, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...




Polls show that, on this issue, I do.


Why are you surprised? You've seen how unbelievably arrogant and insulting lefties are, when they talk to white people about Race.


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## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jun 13, 2018)

The word "whitesplain" (or any ____splain bullshit word) by itself is an attempt to dismiss ideas without the need to think or argue, while at the same time, it insults the target of such a word. Most of the time, the use of such a word indicates that the person using it is not at all interested in a discussion.  I have no use for such people.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 14, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




1. Says the lying, racist nut, who is consumed with acting as a self appointed spokesperson for a "collective" that he claims is oppressed by a small minority.

2. Yes you do whine incessantly, you racist nut, but consistently fail to validate whay you whine about. You being identified as a racist nut is not an assault on the  entire white population. Or even all of the white people in this forum. Its simply one asshole racist jerkoff being called what he is.

3. What "shit" is it that you claim to be done with? What are you being blamed for? 
What is being demanded? The answer is nothing. You racist nut.

4. And who gives a shit about you being "pissed off"? The fact is no one does. In fact, it is humorous watching you throw tantrum after tantrum. It is obvious that what makes you a racist nut is a society that does not share your wish for an anti minority environment that would return this country back to the values of 1950. You view any success or recognition of anyone who is non 
white as an insult to the white population, and believe it is your duty to act as a spokesperson on behalf of the white  population, which is ludicrous. And makes you a RACIST NUT.


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## Taz (Jun 14, 2018)

miketx said:


> Does the OP EVER post anything that does not revolve around hating whites?


Ya, but you'll like him, he goes apeshit at democrats too.


----------



## ptbw forever (Jun 14, 2018)

Taz said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> > Does the OP EVER post anything that does not revolve around hating whites?
> ...


No he doesn’t.

They use him perfectly and he uses them perfectly.

White liberalism and black nationalism are 2 sides of the same black supremacist coin.


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## ptbw forever (Jun 14, 2018)

Unkotare said:


> You do NOT speak for any imaginary “White America.”


Go back to your cuckold porn.

You are too stupid to even speak for yourself.


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## Unkotare (Jun 14, 2018)

ptbw forever said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > You do NOT speak for any imaginary “White America.”
> ...




Who was catcher last night, you or im2? Or do you take turns?


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## IM2 (Jun 14, 2018)

miketx said:


> Does the OP EVER post anything that does not revolve around hating whites?






miketx said:


> Does the OP EVER post anything that does not revolve around hating whites?



*Check the national felons league*



miketx said:


> ...started shooting all the unarmed black poster's? Whats the matter with them?





miketx said:


> Lashawn was called on in class to make a sentence using the word "hotel". He thought for a moment and said "My baby momma give me the clap, and hotel everybody."





miketx said:


> tigerred59 said:
> 
> 
> > *Kanye, how does it feel knowing your now the black face of Trumps GOP, a party that rejects social conservatism in lieu of any candidate, who not only supports Trumps agenda of divisiveness, but also rejects conservative ideology and principles????????????
> ...



There are a lot more. Think before you start crying


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## Correll (Jun 14, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...





1. You calling me a "racist" is just you being an asshole. Fuck you.

1b. I have repeatedly mentioned that the oppression and discrimination I speak of is a matter of government law and policy, ie not just by "a small minority".  Your lie otherwise, is noted as evidence that you are a liar. As if any more proof was needed.



2. Please stop pretending that you do not remember what I was referring to, when I stated that, White America is done being lectured to by morons, like we are ill mannered children.  I was NOT referring to you being an asshole by calling me a name.

3.  Your pretense that you do not know is noted and dismissed.

4.  I did not say that "I" was getting pissed off, I said "we" were getting pissed off. And you should care. Such anger is a significant part of why Hillary is unemployed right now.


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## ATL (Jun 14, 2018)

Someone grab some paper towels, a snowflake is melting.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 15, 2018)

ATL said:


> Someone grab some paper towels, a snowflake is melting.



Yes indeed. Isn't it funny?


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 15, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



1. Me calling you a racist nut, is me telling the truth. So STFU.

2. "White America"? If you were not the racist nut that you are, there would be no "White America". Just America.

3. No pretense here. Just recognizing a racist nut for what "it" is.

4. Since you have appointed your crazy self as a person who "speaks for the majority of white people", are you not a part of that collective?

5. So when you say "we are getting pissed off", does that not include you as an individual? How fucking stupid is it to say "we" and then imply that you don't include yourself?

6. You still have not defined what "you/we" are being blamed for, and what is being demanded of "you/we".


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## Correll (Jun 15, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...





1. Nope. YOu calling me vile slurs I do not deserve, is just you being an asshole.

2. Discussing whites in America as a group, is not racist. Obviously.

3. Your pretense is dismissed. Still.

4. You calling me a slur, for no reason, is just you being an asshole. Fuck youl

4b. By limiting it to me personally, you were trying to dodge or deny my point about White America as a group. D'uh.

5.  Your silly semantics games are dismissed.

6. Your pretense that you do not know are dismissed.


----------



## katsteve2012 (Jun 16, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



1. Yep. Your whiny, little bitch fit is dismissed.. You're an immature, chronic complainer about stupid  bullshit that does not even exist except in your childish little mind. It is what it is.

2. You still have yet to explain what is being demanded, of you, what you're being blamed for and how you are being "lectured". You won't explain,  because you can't.

3. You never "made a point" about so called "white America". You keep referring to it, but say nothing except portray "it" as being victimized. Adressing you individually is exactly what I did, because you are not so called "white Americas" spokesperson. 

4. I never called you a slur. I referred to you as a "racist nut", which you are.


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## impuretrash (Jun 16, 2018)

Ya got a bunch of uppity white professors whitesplaining ancient history and they weren't even there and never experienced it.


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## IM2 (Jun 16, 2018)

impuretrash said:


> Ya got a bunch of uppity white professors whitesplaining ancient history and they weren't even there and never experienced it.


----------



## Correll (Jun 16, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...





1. Calling you are being an asshole who likes to call people vile slurs for no reason, is not whining. YOu are lying about it, because you don't like being called on your bullshit. Also, you are still an asshole.

2. Your pretense that you do not know what the Lecture is, is still dismissed. Continuing your lies will not change my answer.

3. I said that White America is done with being lectured like they were ill mannered children, by morons. That is a point. Your inability to understand that, ironically supports my point. Do you understand how? 

That was rhetorical. Even if you could, you are too dishonest to admit it.


4. "Racist" is used by assholes like you, as a vile, but meaningless slur. YOu are an asshole. Fuck you.


----------



## katsteve2012 (Jun 17, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



1. I am not the one whining about there being mass discrimination. You are. And the fact that you refuse to support or explain what you are being blamed for and lectured about, invalidates what you are saying and makes you appear to be a whiny little bitch, without a point over even any common sense. You're not being blamed, or lectured, and sure as hell don't even  have a clue what REAL discrimination actually is.

2. You are but one insignificant white person on a computer with an opinion, that does not make a you spokesperson for so called "white America.

3. "Racists and racism" are subjects that are brought up in a race relations forum, you racist nut. From what you have posted here  it appears that your greatest objection is to any recognition of achievement by ANY black person, because, somehow in yourr foolish mind, that is somehow an assault on "white America".

And is the mindset of s racist nut.

4. You have not been called a slur. You were called a racist nut, now with much more emphasis on the latter.


----------



## Correll (Jun 17, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...






When was the last time you heard something from a white you disagreed with, in the "discussion on race" but that you respected as a valid viewpoint?


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 17, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



At one time, I did not believe that there are just as many so called "liberal" white racists as there are so called "conservative" ones.

But that is a fact.


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## Correll (Jun 17, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...





GOt it. YOu have never heard something from a white that you did not like that you accepted as part of a legitimate conversation.


ANd that's what I'm talking about. 


A conversation is a two way street.


If you are not listening to what we say, than we are not having a conversation.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 17, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Wrong. I was told by a WHITE person that there are just as many liberal white racists as there are conservative white racists. 

And when an INDIVIDUAL has something to say that is legitimate and fact based, then I will have  a conversation with that INDIVIDUAL.

But when someone says to me, "This is what WE think and this is what WE are tired of  that is not a standard  conversation, that is attempting to speak for others and has the tone of parents speaking to a child.

So the ubiquitous "lecture" that you continue to reference is frequently practiced by you.


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## Correll (Jun 17, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...




So, your growth has been that you realize there are more white racists than you thought.


And you think that reflects a real conversation on race?


You having zero interest in hearing what white people think, or what white people feel, is another way of saying that we are not having a conversation.


Because you are not listening to anything, that you don't want to hear.


When you refuse to listen, and continue to talk AT people, that is a lecture.


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## Mickiel (Jun 17, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



What skill would you use to bring this conversation to a better place?


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## Correll (Jun 17, 2018)

Mickiel said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...



1. I'm not afraid of being called mean names by dishonest and vile race baiters

2. I have a strong idea of what the self interests of whites in America are, and I'm not afraid to say it.

3. I know that black activists do not speak for all black Americans.

4. And I am able to intelligently articulate all the above.

5. And I'm certainly not afraid of listening.


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## sparky (Jun 17, 2018)

just checking in to see if i'm_ still _a racist.......

~S~


----------



## Mickiel (Jun 17, 2018)

Correll said:


> Mickiel said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




Well now these should be enough to help you bring some things to a more sensible exchange ;  if they help you with their commitments to show respect.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 18, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



It is more likely that I have experienced far more growth than you have in your lifetime,  just based on what I have witnessed during mine. 

Truth is, I have listened for a substantial part of my adult lifetime to "what I did not want to hear". Being retired now, and not being required to be as careful about what I say and I think, I am much more selective about what I will tolerate or accept. 

I judge INDIVIDUALS, not GROUPS. There have been quite a few white people that I have encountered and listened to in this forum, and more importantly in real life.

And then are a small number that I have encountered that I really do not have any interest in listening to. And here are some examples of those types:

1. Those who tend to repetitiously preach about anti white discrimination. I am old enough to have seen members of my own family marginalized by law, because of their race. Including being denied service in a public establishment, being assumed to be of inferior intelligence, and being attacked by law enforcement for peaceful protesting against LAWFUL discrimination. And all during the time that this was happening,  being led by individuals who insisted on "being patient:". That is REAL discrimination.

2. Those who believe that  legal reform to ensure equality is "reverse discrimination". And that the very moment that legal reform wss enacted, that it marked the beginning of black peoples equality (on paper) meant that white people by the millions were immediately impacted  negatively. There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination" The very term implies that someone or a specific group has in fact been discriminated against, to begin with, and correcting that discrimination is somehow a morally wrong assault on the white population.

3. Those who subscribe to the belief that public recognition of a black person who is the first to be appointed to a position of responsibility IN HISTORY, is somehow an assault on the white population. In the context of history, this country is 241 yesrs old. If that 241 years, black people as a whole have been citizens with all of the rights associated that status for approximately 50 years if that history. So it goes without saying that there are still many black citizens who are the "first" to overcome certain obstacles that existed not too long ago.


Lastly. I do not personally blame any white person who was not around to see what I saw, but, I will not listen to anyone who tries  to tell me, that what I witnessed, just magically disappeared with the stroke of a pen, one night in 1965.

Begrudging compliance is what ensued, and nothing changed immediately. Like any other process change that affects society across cultures and generations,  some of the old attitudes from past decades still lurk beneath a thinly veiled facade. 

Are there more "racist white people" than I thought  there were before?

If this forum represented a microcosm of society  possibly. Outside of this forum  I have spoken to some who are reasonable, and openminded. And some are the exact opposite.  

But all that I have spoken to have varying opinioins as individuals.....not the single thinking collective as you have implied thst you "speak for".

THAT is not a "lecture". These are facts based on personal experience.


----------



## Correll (Jun 18, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...






There is a lot in that post, that is worthy of discussion. And I appreciate you making a real answer. AND refraining from personal slurs for at least one post.


BUt the context was in response to a question on are you prepared to LISTEN.


And nothing in it, indicated any willingness to listen to anything you don't already agree with, especially from a white person.


And that is my point.


A conversation, where you want me to listen to you, but you are not listening to ME, is a lecture.


----------



## Mickiel (Jun 18, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...




Listening may well be a lost art. At times, I don't even listen to myself!


----------



## katsteve2012 (Jun 18, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Then you did not really read into the context of what was stated. And maybe you should try reading it again. Because everything that you are stating was addressed.

It  was very clearly stated that I have listened before, and I will still do so. 

To individuals who speak for themselves.


----------



## Correll (Jun 18, 2018)

Mickiel said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...




It is not always easy, no doubt about that.


----------



## Correll (Jun 18, 2018)

GOing at it AGAIN, point by point in response to post .428






katsteve2012 said:


> It is more likely that I have experienced far more growth than you have in your lifetime,  just based on what I have witnessed during mine.
> 
> Truth is, I have listened for a substantial part of my adult lifetime to "what I did not want to hear". Being retired now, and not being required to be as careful about what I say and I think, I am much more selective about what I will tolerate or accept.




That was then, this is now. With the dominance of the Left in Pop CUlture and the Media not to mention Human Rescource departments, it is the other side that has to listen to "what they do not want to hear" all the time and are rarely given a chance to respond.






> I judge INDIVIDUALS, not GROUPS. There have been quite a few white people that I have encountered and listened to in this forum, and more importantly in real life.
> 
> And then are a small number that I have encountered that I really do not have any interest in listening to. And here are some examples of those types:
> 
> 1. Those who tend to repetitiously preach about anti white discrimination. I am old enough to have seen members of my own family marginalized by law, because of their race. Including being denied service in a public establishment, being assumed to be of inferior intelligence, and being attacked by law enforcement for peaceful protesting against LAWFUL discrimination. And all during the time that this was happening,  being led by individuals who insisted on "being patient:". That is REAL discrimination.




Today, whites are denied jobs or promotions or admissions to colleges, or contracts.

I have friends who have been denied jobs because of race. I've been in management when white people were denied promotions they should have received because of a decision to have more "diversity" in management.


That is REAL discrimination.


And you don't listen to anyone that talks about it.







> 2. Those who believe that  legal reform to ensure equality is "reverse discrimination". And that the very moment that legal reform wss enacted, that it marked the beginning of black peoples equality (on paper) meant that white people by the millions were immediately impacted  negatively. There is no such thing as "reverse discrimination" The very term implies that someone or a specific group has in fact been discriminated against, to begin with, and correcting that discrimination is somehow a morally wrong assault on the white population.





We can't give more of a limited resources to blacks, such as jobs or promotions or college admissions, without denying them to someone else.


That is just a fact, and a real issue for whites, that you refuse to listen to.






> 3. Those who subscribe to the belief that public recognition of a black person who is the first to be appointed to a position of responsibility IN HISTORY, is somehow an assault on the white population. In the context of history, this country is 241 yesrs old. If that 241 years, black people as a whole have been citizens with all of the rights associated that status for approximately 50 years if that history. So it goes without saying that there are still many black citizens who are the "first" to overcome certain obstacles that existed not too long ago.




Before Obama was elected, there was discussion about how the nation might not be ready for a black President.

I voted against him, like I ALWAYS do, because he was a democrat.

If he had lost, those voices would have been saying it was because America was not ready for a black President.


That would have been grossly unfair, and incredibly insulting to all the white Americans, who voted against him for every other reason than skin color.


But you don't listen to any white people that have a problem with being thus insulted.





> Lastly. I do not personally blame any white person who was not around to see what I saw, but, I will not listen to anyone who tries  to tell me, that what I witnessed, just magically disappeared with the stroke of a pen, one night in 1965.




No one says that. Well, maybe someone actually in the KLAN might say that. All 5k of them. 

But if you think that comes up a lot, that is you listening badly, before you choose to stop listening at all.






> Begrudging compliance is what ensued, and nothing changed immediately. Like any other process change that affects society across cultures and generations,  some of the old attitudes from past decades still lurk beneath a thinly veiled facade.




Somethings changed immediately. Some jobs were set aside. Schools were forcibly integrated.


But you admit that you refuse to listen to white people that point that out.




> Are there more "racist white people" than I thought  there were before?
> 
> If this forum represented a microcosm of society  possibly. Outside of this forum  I have spoken to some who are reasonable, and openminded. And some are the exact opposite.
> 
> But all that I have spoken to have varying opinioins as individuals.....not the single thinking collective as you have implied thst you "speak for".





There is nothing about speaking for a group, on a certain specific issue, that implies that the group is a "single thinking collective".

The obvious challenge to my statement was to challenge me to support my claim that was speaking for the group, ie that the group largely agreed with me.


It is very odd that none of the several posters who attacked me for speaking for Whites, actually challenged my claim.


Regardless, once again, you admit that someone who says that, ie something you disagree with, you will not listen to.





> THAT is not a "lecture". These are facts based on personal experience.





When you come to a discussion forum, and have a list, a list that ends up discounting the vast majority of people that disagree with you,

that you will not listen to,


but you do feel comfortable TALKING TO those people, (or at),



That is you talking to/at them, while not listening TO them.


And especially when you do things like telling me that something is a "Fact", even if based on your personal experience.


That is not a two way conversation. 



That is a Lecture.


----------



## IM2 (Jun 18, 2018)

Correll said:


> We can't give more of a limited resources to blacks, such as jobs or promotions or college admissions, without denying them to someone else.
> 
> 
> That is just a fact, and a real issue for whites, that you refuse to listen to.



I am just going to address this silly claim. Nothing is being denied whites. They are the majority, they get the majority of these resources. Your argument amounts to a belief that whites are entitled to all the resources. Your argument is not worth listening to. But we have and you seem unable to understand how your argument has no merit.


----------



## Correll (Jun 19, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > We can't give more of a limited resources to blacks, such as jobs or promotions or college admissions, without denying them to someone else.
> ...





Yes, jobs, promotions, college admissions, ect, are being denied to whites, so that they can be given to less qualified blacks.


To make up for past disadvantages.


You can't give preference to ONE group, with out disadvantaging another.


That is simple logic. 



Well, simple for me. For you,  I know it is an Epic Quest of Understanding, that is beyond your ability.


----------



## katsteve2012 (Jun 19, 2018)

IM2 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > We can't give more of a limited resources to blacks, such as jobs or promotions or college admissions, without denying them to someone else.
> ...



There is a plethora of  information that supports the fact that whites in the workforce are not being denied anything for the most part because of blacks.
National employment statistics do NOT reflect any such trend that exists. 

That narrative is nothing but propaganda lifted from white nationalist and white supremacist ideology.

In every sector blacks still are underrepresented compared to relative population size. See the following article. More to follow.

White men who cant get jobs say theyre being discriminated against - MarketWatch


----------



## IM2 (Jun 19, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Agreed.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 19, 2018)

IM2 said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...


https://www.theroot.com/everything-whites-think-about-affirmative-action-is-wro-1797675386


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## IM2 (Jun 20, 2018)

*Everything White People Think About Affirmative Action Is Wrong*

*After uniting with Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller and Betsy DeVos to form the Trump administration’s version of the Caucasian Avengers, Jeff Sessions has directed his efforts toward uplifting a class of people who have long been ignored by the American educational system: white people.
*
*According to documents obtained by the New York Times**, the attorney general and Squidward doppelgänger has directed the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division to look into the “intentional race-based discrimination” posed by affirmative action programs at colleges and universities across the country. Justice Department insiders say the project will target admissions programs that give priority to students in minority and traditionally disadvantaged groups.

Think about that for a minute. 

The country’s chief law-enforcement official presumably looked at every inequity in America—including income inequality, the gender pay gap, police brutality and the plight of the millions of poor puppies who spend every day in fear knowing that they’ll be forced by their Caucasian owners to kiss them in the mouth—and instead of fixing any of those problems, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions came to this conclusion:

“You know what would make America great again? Fewer darkies in college.”

We all know why he did this. I bet you think I’m going to say something like “white supremacy” or “the ‘alt-right’ agenda.” No, whether it’s building that mythical wall or attacking affirmative action, the Trump administration’s anti-minority moves are all politically motivated. Trump and Sessions are simply animal trainers throwing red meat to the most enthusiastic and easily manipulated contingent of their base: dumb white people.
*
Race baiting. Race pimping. This is what's being done.


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## defcon4 (Jun 20, 2018)

impuretrash said:


> Ya got a bunch of uppity white professors whitesplaining ancient history and they weren't even there and never experienced it.


Maybe those so-called professors only look white but in reality they are entirely different entities.


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## LOIE (Jun 20, 2018)

Correll said:


> You can't give preference to ONE group, with out disadvantaging another.


That's very true, including all of the many, many years white folks were given preference while seriously disadvantaging others.


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## Correll (Jun 21, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > You can't give preference to ONE group, with out disadvantaging another.
> ...




Of course.


If it was true then, it is true now.


Whites were given preference in the past, at the expense of blacks.


Now it is the other way around. 


It was wrong then. It is wrong now. In my opinion.


Do you not agree?


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## IM2 (Jun 21, 2018)

*Stuff You Probably Shouldn’t Say to White People*
Tuesday December 22nd 2015 by abagond





Some stuff you probably should not say to White Americans:

*“racist”* – never ever tell White people that they are racist or anything close to it. It can lead to something far worse than racism: hurt White feelings, like White women’s tears. It will only prove to them that _you_ are the racist one.

*“whitey”, “honky”, etc* – racist, even if you have a suburban pass.

*“cracker”, “vanilla”, “mayonnaise”, etc* – comparing people to food is dehumanizing.

“*Do you prefer to be called White or Caucasian?” * – pointing out their race makes them uncomfortable. In fact, pointing out any difference makes them uncomfortable. Instead, make it about stuff you have in common, like sports or the weather. Certainly not history:

*“slavery”, “genocide”, etc* – do not bring up the bad parts of their history. Deep down they know they are among the most savage, terroristic and thuggish people in history, so do not rub their noses in it. Their fragile pride depends on maintaining a false sense of innocence.

*“Black lives matter”* – in some circles this could get you beat up. Many Whites believe “All lives matter”, where “all” means “only White”, as in the White saying, “all men are created equal.”

*“Can I touch your hair?”* White people are not a roving petting zoo provided for your curiosity.

*“What are you?”* – not a zoo animal.

*“Is it true what they say about White guys?”, “Is your hair real?”, etc *– rude because it is too personal.

*“As a White person, what do you think about … “* This is insulting. Whites think of themselves as individuals, not part of a hive mind.

*“Why do White people…”* – this makes it seem like you stereotype them.

*“Why do you people…”* – this is even worse because the “you” is othering.

*“I like White people”, “I like White culture”, etc* – see “Do you prefer to be called White or Caucasian?”.

*“I watch Hollywood films”, “I’m into Christian religion”, “I’m into White girls”, “I admire your leader Donald Trump”, etc* – this is a better way to show you like White culture, but to bring it up out of the blue will seem odd. And that “into” is kind of creepy too. Also, do not assume that any given White person likes all of White culture. They are individuals with individual tastes, just like everyone else.

*“You are pretty for a White girl”* – even if true, this is a backhanded compliment. It assumes that most White women are not all that good looking.

*“You speak such good English!”* – another backhanded compliment. It assumes they are either foreign or lack intelligence.

*“You look so exotic!*“ – this says more about you than them.

*“Where are you really from?”* If they say they are from the US, why assume otherwise?

*“Totally rad”, etc* – overuse of outdated White slang will not put them at ease or make it seem like you are up on White culture. In fact, it will have the opposite effect.

_– Abagond, 2015.

Stuff You Probably Shouldn’t Say to White People_


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## Correll (Jun 21, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *Stuff You Probably Shouldn’t Say to White People*
> Tuesday December 22nd 2015 by abagond
> 
> 
> ...




I really need to link to this, in that thread where Rightwinger is claiming that multiculturalism isn't dead.


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## IM2 (Jun 21, 2018)

*Buchanan on the kindness of white people*
Friday May 8th 2009 by abagond







*Pat Buchanan* on why blacks should thank white Americans:

First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ’60s on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community into the mainstream.

Governments, businesses and colleges have engaged in discrimination against white folks — with affirmative action, contract set-asides and quotas — to advance black applicants over white applicants.

Churches, foundations, civic groups, schools and individuals all over America have donated time and money to support soup kitchens, adult education, day care, retirement and nursing homes for blacks.

We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude?






*Ta-Nehisi Coates* replies:

I always found this quote interesting because it originates from the same racist thinking that Byron York employed last week–that black people don’t actually count. In this instance, the idea isn’t about polling, it’s about taxes. By Buchanan’s lights, black people do not exist as tax-payers, but as social sponges. And the converse is true–no white people use government services, they simply pay taxes that are transferred to blacks.

Buchanan on the kindness of white people

Correll, you express the same racist beliefs as Buchanan.


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## Correll (Jun 22, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *Buchanan on the kindness of white people*
> Friday May 8th 2009 by abagond
> 
> 
> ...




1. Stating the white people have paid taxes, does not imply that black people have not paid taxes. 

2. Stating the black people use social services, does not imply that white people do not use social services.



D'uh.


Would you like to actually respond to what Pat Buchanan actually SAID.


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## IM2 (Jun 22, 2018)

*The Republican bubble*
Friday November 9th 2012 by abagond





*The Republican bubble* is the “parallel universe” that most Republicans in America live in, especially those on the hard right. It is a closed world of Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, right-wing opinion and white people. They sound like they are nuts because they are nuts.

*They are not trolling:* they are not saying crackpot stuff to gain attention, listeners or votes. They are serious.

*It does not come from philosophical differences*, from seeing the facts in a different light. It is worse than that.

*It comes from cutting themselves off from knowable facts*, from a lack of respect for truth, from accepting so many lies that they can no longer tell spin from fact.

*Most Democrats live in a bubble too*, but not an equal and opposite one. It has a greater respect for fact. It is less shut off from the outside world.

*On the night of the 2012 election*, Barack Obama prepared a victory speech and a concession speech while *Mitt* *Romney prepared only a victory speech*.

Since June most polls had been saying Romney would lose. The very same polls that had foreseen a Bush win in 2004. Yet when defeat came Romney was *“shell-shocked”*. He did not see it coming.

*It was not just Romney*. Others on the right also thought he would win enough electoral college votes (270 or more):


273: Ann Coulter, Fox News
279: Karl Rove
300: Newt Gingrich
311: Dean Chambers, Unskewed Polls
315: Michael Barone, _National Review_
321: George Will, _Washington Post_
325: Dick Morris, _The New York Post_, Fox News
Rush Limbaugh:

Everything except the polls points to a Romney landslide.

Romney only got 206.

*

Nate Silver*, the polling expert at the _New York Times_, had been saying 206 was the most likely outcome. The right dismissed it – even though last time in 2008 he was off by only one state.

Silver dealt in numbers and mathematics, contrary in spirit to the Republican bubble, which:


still doubts evolution and global warming despite the science and
for years doubted Obama was born in America despite the state records of Hawaii.
Only 38% of Republicans in Ohio think that President Obama killed Bin Laden. Some think Romney did (15%). The rest (47%) are not sure.

*Romney* in the last days wasted precious time in states he had no hope of winning, like Pennsylvania. As if he had no polling experts.

At the second debate he made a huge mistake about what President Obama had said on Libya – apparently because he believed Fox News and the _National Review_.

Huge numbers came out to see him speak. But nearly everyone was – white. Because he avoided black and Latino neighbourhoods. Republican bubble.



In 2008 when* Sarah Palin* did terribly in her debate many on the right thought she did great:


David Brooks
Fred Barnes
Monica Crowley
Pat Buchanan
Peggy Noonan
Rush Limbaugh
Michelle Malkin
Rudy Giuliani
_National Review_
Though some disagreed:


Charles Krauthammer
George Will
Juan Williams
Andrew Sullivan
_The Economist_
*Compare:* In 2012 when Obama did poorly in the first debate almost no one on the left thought he did great.

_*Sources:* CBS News, Slate, Julian Sanchez, Public Policy Polling (PDF)_


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## IM2 (Jun 22, 2018)

*The Southern strategy*
Thursday November 8th 2012 by abagond





*The Southern strategy* (1964-2012) is an American political strategy where Republicans win over *angry white men*, particularly in the South, by appealing to their racism. It has *turned the Party of Lincoln into the party of white segregationists*, both in the South and in white-flight suburbia. It has made the South the Republican heartland.

*The Republicans* champion policies that mainly benefit the rich, but *to win elections they need millions to vote against their class interests*.* So they push issues based on race and religion:* gay marriage, abortion, crime, welfare, drugs, food stamps, etc.

*Reagan’s welfare queen is a good example.* Reagan never said she was black. In fact, she was completely made up. But white stereotypes and white anger at taxes being “wasted” on blacks (read: unworthy people) took over from there. It gave ordinary white people a reason to favour tax cuts that mainly benefit the rich.




Nixon, Reagan and Goldwater in 1965

*In the 1960s Barry Goldwater* and *George Wallace*, on the heels of the civil rights reforms*, *were the the first to practise the Southern strategy but it did not work well outside the South.

*Nixon* turned it into something that worked nationwide by using less nakedly racist messages: *racist dog whistles*. For example, he would talk about “law and order”, letting his white racist listeners fill in the blanks about who the troublemakers were.

*Lee Atwater*, adviser to Reagan and Bush the Elder, put it this way in 1981:

You start out in 1954 by saying, “******, ******, ******.” By 1968 you can’t say “******” – that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like “forced busing”, “states’ rights” and all that stuff.

Willie Horton – do you hear the whistle?

*In 1988* Atwater gave us the infamous *Willie Horton ad*, which played on white racist stereotypes and fears about “black” crime. It allowed him to paint Michael Dukakis, the Democratic candidate for president, as being “soft on crime” (Read: Not keeping those frightening black people in line).

*In 1996* *Roger Ailes*, former Nixon media adviser, started *Fox News*, broadcasting racist dog whistles from coast to coast.

*The Southern strategy broke the back of Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal coalition* of working-class blacks and whites. Which in turn allowed New Deal and civil rights policies to be weakened starting in the early 1970s.

*For 40 years there were only two Democratic presidents:* Carter and Clinton. Both were white Southerners.

*Enter Mitt Romney in 2012.* His father opposed Goldwater’s Southern strategy, but Mitt Romney ran with it. Screw blacks. Screw Latinos. He went all out for the white vote – and lost.

Spot the difference

The trouble is, the Southern strategy drives away voters, like women, gays, blacks, Asian Americans and Latinos. Meanwhile the white share of the vote has been dropping since 1980. *There are no longer enough angry white men left to make it work.*





To win nationwide with the Southern strategy you now need at least 61% of the white vote. No one in the past 60 years has ever won that many white votes without being a sitting president. *Even Bush would lose if the 2004 election were held with 2012 demographics.*




The Southern strategy has poisoned the Republican Party – and therefore the political health of the nation.

The Southern strategy


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## IM2 (Jun 22, 2018)

*The end of white America?*
Saturday January 10th 2009 by abagond






*Hua Hsu* in *“The End of White America?”* in the _Atlantic Monthly_ for February 2009 argues, like John McWhorter, that* America is becoming postracial*. Race will matter less and less; whiteness will come to an end.

In the *1950s* the *mainstream culture was solidly white*. Those who were not white wanted to be as white as possible: to fit it, to not be so threatening to others, to get along by going along. That model worked because most Americans were white.

But the U.S. Census Bureau says that* by 2042 most Americans will no longer be white*. That is already true in Hawaii, New York and California. It will be true for those under 18 by 2023. So Americans who are being born now will grow up in a very different America from the one of the 1950s.

*By the 2050s white will no longer be right: *the numbers just will not be there.

Hsu notes that* this shift has already started in the culture.* His main example is hip hop. Instead of being watered down and whitened like black music in the past, it has remained unmistakably black and yet has taken over the music industry. Sean Combs, like Barack Obama, can be black and yet be accepted by Americans of all colours and reach the top of his field.

Hsu also notes that *white Americans do not have a strong culture:* what is it, like NASCAR and Led Zeppelin? How can anyone’s sense of who they are be based on that – let alone the country as whole?

*That is his argument as I understand it. *

*Here is what is wrong with it:*

*The same sort of arguments were made in the 1920s.* There was even a book written about it: “The Passing of the Great Race” (1916) by Madison Grant. But who was threatening the great race? Blacks, yes, Asians, yes, but also Italians and Jews! The law was changed to keep them from pouring into the country in huge numbers – to “protect” “America” and the position of the “white” race.

But now everyone thinks of Italians and Jews as white. It will be the same with *white-skinned Hispanics* and so the white race will carry on as before, still comfortably on top by the 2050s.

*Further, this idea of white Americans not having much of a culture or a weak culture is completely wrong.* They have one of the strongest cultures in history – easily on a level with the Romans, the Persians and the Chinese. Any archaeologist 3000 years from now will be able to tell you that. Just because white Americans listen to hip hop and eat tacos does not mean they do not have their own culture. The Romans followed Greek philosophy, the Turks read Persian poets. Does that mean there was not much of a Roman or Turkish culture? Of course not.

The reason white American culture seems so weak is because when you are in it you take it for granted, it becomes hard to see – like water to a fish.

The end of white America?


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## IM2 (Jun 22, 2018)

*Do whites have a culture?*
Monday November 17th 2008 by abagond





Macon D, on his ever-interesting blog Stuff White People _Do_, quoted *anti-racist writer Shelly Tochluk.* Here is a bit of it. She is speaking as a white American:

However, many of us find ourselves looking at other groups and longing for the connection we imagine they feel with their roots, their homeland, their culture. Many white folks can be heard saying, “We don’t have culture. They have culture.”

…

I know that I am not alone. I hear the same sentiments too much from other white people. If anything, this is one of the truest hallmarks of whiteness that I have yet encountered. There is a hole within many of us, created when our families gave up our culture in order to be successful in the United States.

*Heartfelt and honest, no doubt, but it is still maddening to hear it.*

*A lost homeland? *Their homeland is made up of the lost homelands of others: the United States of America.

*No rootedness?* They live in a country – in a world! – where their culture is top dog. Where their culture is taught in schools across the country and shown on televisions round the world. Where their food and drink is sold in the four corners of the earth! How much more rooted can you be?

*Lack of a culture?* They have one of the most powerful cultures in history, like the Romans, the Persians and the Chinese, one that threatens other cultures.

*White Americans have a culture just like everyone else: *they have strange holidays and special foods, they have their own way of dressing, of talking, of family life, their own feelings about dogs, their own ideas about music, female beauty, skin colour and disciplining children. They have their own books, songs, television shows and films. They have blue jeans, rock music and hamburgers. Baseball and Starbucks.

They have their own* language*, which is taught in every school in the land as “proper English”. White Americans even speak English with an accent – which they call “having no accent”.

*Whatever old ways Tochluk’s family lost *from the old country they were *replaced by their White American counterparts*. It is how they lost their foreignness. The hole was filled. It had to be. How else can she sing and dance and talk and cook and tell stories to her children?

*Many white Americans seem to see themselves as plain, ordinary and boring*. “*Generic”*, I think, is the word. It is everyone else who is different, interesting, colourful or “exotic”.

Well, that is a point of view. They are so used to* their own culture*, like water to a fish or refrigerator noises, they take it so much for granted, it *is so much a part of what they think of as “being a normal person”*, that they do not see it. Just like how they do not hear their own accent – or see themselves as “white”.

Do whites have a culture?


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## IM2 (Jun 22, 2018)

All of this describes Correll and most of the whites in his section.


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## Correll (Jun 22, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *The Republican bubble*
> Friday November 9th 2012 by abagond
> 
> 
> ...







In this last election Nate predicted HIllary getting 302 electoral votes. She actually got 227.


So, who's in a bubble now?


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## Paul Essien (Jun 22, 2018)

SobieskiSavedEurope


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 22, 2018)

IM2 said:


> *Buchanan on the kindness of white people*
> Friday May 8th 2009 by abagond
> 
> 
> ...





IM2 said:


> *Buchanan on the kindness of white people*
> Friday May 8th 2009 by abagond
> 
> 
> ...



Pat Buchanan? 
Racist, mysogonistic, homophobic, douchebag, who should be publically flogged for some of his statements.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAPegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0Zq1s8BbAxxB3HyvG1rXf1


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## IM2 (Jun 22, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > *Buchanan on the kindness of white people*
> ...



Funny how whites can find every excuse on earth to deny their racism.


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## LOIE (Jun 23, 2018)

Correll said:


> Delores Paulk said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


In my opinion, preference isn't given to blacks en mass. You may be referring to AA which tried unsuccessfully to level the playing field. But the hand full of whites negatively effected by it, does not compare to the millions of blacks negatively effected by years of disadvantage on every level. It effected an entire race of people, not like today where some white people in some area in some ways are effected. And, hey, if they are, maybe they should take the advice that's been loudly and consistently given to black people and stop blaming, and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, because they probably still have some.


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## IM2 (Jun 24, 2018)

I think that if you are not 100 percent of the population you should get 100 percent of the opportunities. Whites complaining about AA are crying because they cannot get all of the opportunities and today think if they are not 100 percent of anything, if 1 white person can't get a job even if 90 do they are being discriminated against. Blacks cannot cry about discrimination if 1 black is hired and certainly cannot take cases to the supreme court of any state, much less the US Supreme court, when here is a situation where the majority of admittees or job holders are black. Yet whites do this all the time. So whites here or anywhere else crying about AA just need to wipe their eyes and understand they are not entitled to everything.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 24, 2018)

IM2 said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > IM2 said:
> ...



Those like Buchanan certainly do. He is one of the original "race pimps".


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## there4eyeM (Jun 24, 2018)

To paraphrase the famous Churchill, affirmative action was the worst solution except for all the others.
Things are not and have not been 'fair' for minorities in America. 
Today we are dealing with consequences of having had a horrible monster always gnawing at America's insides. Slavery was the most outstanding manifestation.


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## Correll (Jun 24, 2018)

Paul Essien said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope
> 
> View attachment 200303




What's your point?


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## Paul Essien (Jun 24, 2018)

Correll said:


> Paul Essien said:
> 
> 
> > SobieskiSavedEurope
> ...


Speaks for itself.


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## Correll (Jun 25, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Delores Paulk said:
> ...





YOu seem confused, about whether it is not happening, or if you support it because you don't give a fuck about the white people being hurt.


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## Correll (Jun 25, 2018)

Paul Essien said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Essien said:
> ...





No, it doesn't.


Some sports team beat some other team. Who cares?


What larger point you trying to make?

Why are you afraid to speak it clearly?


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## IM2 (Jun 25, 2018)

Sometimes you really have to wonder how dumb some whites are. The US had for 188 years denied opportunity based on race. So the solution to this in the eyes of these brilliant, high IQ, superior beings was to continue doing the same thing and one day whites would suddenly stop denying people of color the same opportunities.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 25, 2018)

Correll said:


> Delores Paulk said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



She's not confused at all. 

Employment and college admission statistics do NOT reflect that white people are being "hurt" in large proportions by black people just having an opportunity for a job or admission to a university. 

The truth is that white males have been  displaced and passed over far more by white females, than black people.

It appears that you are saying that you believe that ANY opportunity that black people have, comes at the expense of the white population.

It also appears that you would be far  more satisfied if 100% of all opportinities  belonged to the white population.


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## LOIE (Jun 25, 2018)

Correll said:


> Delores Paulk said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


No, I am not confused and to say I don't give a "f" about the white people being hurt is simply not true. But I do not personally see hurt white people every day. I do not personally see mistreatment of white people every day. I do not personally see white people being daily disadvantaged. That is not to say that it doesn't happen, but their individual cases are not constantly before me.

On the other hand, I do personally see the mistreatment, hurt and disadvantages black people face and have faced.  And I disagree that the temporary hurts white people experience are anywhere near on the same level.  

When we as white people experience being looked over, passed over, pushed over, why can't we use this experience to teach us empathy for those who have been experiencing this for many, many years? Why can't we use it to find common ground and solutions to all mistreatment?  Instead we just get madder and madder, and to what end?


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 25, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Delores Paulk said:
> ...


 
Mad enough to elect a person like Trump. Mad enough to walk into a church and kill 9 black people. Mad enough to call the police on an 8 year old black child selling bottled water.....the list goes on and on.


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## LOIE (Jun 25, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Delores Paulk said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


Sad but true.


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## Correll (Jun 26, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Delores Paulk said:
> ...






The complaint is not that black people have an opportunity for a job or an admission.


It is that they are given preference in hiring, promotion and university admissions.


This has been documented with peer reviewed academic studies, and in Supreme Court cases.



THe point of that, in the context of this thread, is that whites complaining about discrimination is not racism, it is a valid complaint.


That you, and lefties like you, characterize such valid complaints as white racism, is very, very wrong of you.


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## Correll (Jun 26, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > Delores Paulk said:
> ...



It is generally hidden. WHen someone does not get a job or a promotion or accepted to an university, they are not told the reason generally, and if it is because of racial discrimination, they are certainly not told the real reason.


This has been documented with peer reviewed academic studies, and Supreme Court cases. 


I have personally seen in when I was in management. The whites passed over, where not told why.






> On the other hand, I do personally see the mistreatment, hurt and disadvantages black people face and have faced.  And I disagree that the temporary hurts white people experience are anywhere near on the same level.




Are you distinguishing between negative impacts of past or current discrimination and negative impacts of new and more modern problems, such as the massive rise in illegitimacy?





> When we as white people experience being looked over, passed over, pushed over, why can't we use this experience to teach us empathy for those who have been experiencing this for many, many years? Why can't we use it to find common ground and solutions to all mistreatment?  Instead we just get madder and madder, and to what end?





We had and have empathy for those who had and have been experiencing if for many, many years. That is why, when you look at history, the pro-civil rights candidates mostly won. 


And instead of building the happy Multicultural Utopia that was supposed to lead to, instead we are getting increased demands and anger and hate in return.


You tell a white guy that is complaining because he didn't get a fair chance at a job, that he is racist 


and then you wonder why he has lost his empathy?


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## Correll (Jun 26, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Delores Paulk said:
> ...




There is nothing wrong with TRump's election. He spoke out for the working class that has been neglected by globalization.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 26, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...



Here we go again. I am not a so called "lefty". 



You have no idea what my political stance is nor how I vote. 

THAT is wrong of YOU.

I did not state that "whites complaining about discrimination is racism".

What I am stating is that whites HAVE NOT experienced discrimination of the magnitude that minorities have across America.

Equalizing ACCESS to opportunity to compensate for over 2 centuries of lawful denial in the work force, in colleges, and even having no ability to share equally in the most basic of public services by being deemed a second class citizen is REAL discrimination. 

I am old enough to have seen that system at work  and lived it.

If whites were being discriminated against at the level which you express, there would be anarchy in the streets. 

There is no "peer study" that exists that lends credibility to that belief.


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## IM2 (Jun 27, 2018)

Correll is an idiot arguing a false position with no proof to support his claims.


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## Correll (Jun 27, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...




I said, and "lefties like you". I purposefully left that vague, in respect to your delicate sensibilities, because God Forbid I call you a lefty. I could have been referring to lefties who think like you.




> I did not state that "whites complaining about discrimination is racism".



You don't state it. You do it. 




> What I am stating is that whites HAVE NOT experienced discrimination of the magnitude that minorities have across America.
> 
> Equalizing ACCESS to opportunity to compensate for over 2 centuries of lawful denial in the work force, in colleges, and even having no ability to share equally in the most basic of public services by being deemed a second class citizen is REAL discrimination.
> 
> I am old enough to have seen that system at work  and lived it.




Well, I am not. And neither are very many of my peers or family. And we do not appreciate being held responsible for the actions of other people long ago.






> If whites were being discriminated against at the level which you express, there would be anarchy in the streets.
> 
> There is no "peer study" that exists that lends credibility to that belief.




Sure there is. I've posted it repeatedly. Your denial is absurd.


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## LOIE (Jun 27, 2018)

Correll said:


> katsteve2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Correll said:
> ...


I don't see anyone saying such complaints are white racism. I just think it's interesting that some white folks are finding out what it means to be on the receiving end instead of the giving end of discrimination and favoritism. And I'm sure everyone would like their complaints to be heard, just as black folks would have liked their complaints to be heard over the many, many years they were wronged. Maybe some were heard and some minor concessions made, but not to where things are actually even and equal, not yet.


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## IM2 (Jun 27, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...



I don't think you can call what's happening to whites racial discrimination. Lets think about this for a moment. If you are 70-75 percent of a workforce and the majority of college students how can you say you are being discriminated against because of race? Where is the favoritism to blacks if they are 2 out of 10 workers? Blacks can't complain about racial discrimination if they are the majority anywhere, But day after day this guy cries about racial discrimination against whites when they have the majority of everything. Since this is the case, it shows that whites are getting the preferences and yet he argues this crazy argument like it's true. There are no studies that show blacks are getting preferences and the supreme court has upheld affirmative action.

Correll does not have a valid complaint.


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## Correll (Jun 28, 2018)

Delores Paulk said:


> Correll said:
> 
> 
> > katsteve2012 said:
> ...




Then you need to pay more attention. My complaints about anti-White discrimination are regularly mis characterized by lefties as complaints about equality for blacks.



> I just think it's interesting that some white folks are finding out what it means to be on the receiving end instead of the giving end of discrimination and favoritism.



That was unfair and unworthy of you. I have never been on the giving end of discrimination or favoritism. And I am middle aged. 





> And I'm sure everyone would like their complaints to be heard, just as black folks would have liked their complaints to be heard over the many, many years they were wronged. Maybe some were heard and some minor concessions made, but not to where things are actually even and equal, not yet.




The numbers and the court cases show otherwise. Widespread and serious discrimination against whites, especially poor whites.


Black skin is worth 230 SAT points in Ivy League admissions, for one minor and limited example.


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## IM2 (Jun 29, 2018)

This is Corrells study.

*Admission Preferences for Minority Students, Athletes, and Legacies at Elite Universities*
Thomas J. Espenshade, Princeton University Chang Y. Chung, Princeton University Joan L. Walling, Princeton University

Line 1 of this study.

*Admission to elite colleges and universities in the United States is not now and never has been based solely on academic merit.*

Page 2 states:

*Although underrepresented minority status may be one of the most conspicuous of the so-called bonus factors, undergraduate admission ofﬁcers in assembling a ﬁrst-year class that best meets institutional goals and values routinely give extra weight to numerous other student attributes, including athletic ability, musical talent, rural background, lower socioeconomic status, gender, alumni connections, leadership ability, geography, and unusual life experiences (Fetter, 1995; Freedman, 2003; Zwick, 2002).1*

Furthermore.

*This article looks more closely at the admission practices of elite universities. Preferences play the largest role at the most academically selective institutions (National Association for College Admission Counseling, 2003). Less selective colleges and universities, by definition, admit almost everyone who applies (Kane, 1998).
*
Again this kills Corrells whining about discrimination against whites if almost everyone who applies is admitted.

As you read the study Corrells argument dies.


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## katsteve2012 (Jun 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This is Corrells study.
> 
> *Admission Preferences for Minority Students, Athletes, and Legacies at Elite Universities*
> Thomas J. Espenshade, Princeton University Chang Y. Chung, Princeton University Joan L. Walling, Princeton University
> ...



You might find this article to be interesting

Who’s Taking College Spots From Top Asian Americans? Privileged Whites. — ProPublica


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## IM2 (Jun 29, 2018)

katsteve2012 said:


> IM2 said:
> 
> 
> > This is Corrells study.
> ...



Exactly. That's what those like correl are trying to do. Create a divide between the races based on lies.


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## Unkotare (Jun 29, 2018)

It seems that some here want to equate skin color with socio-economic disadvantage. Are those doing so ready to accept all that implies?


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## IM2 (Jun 29, 2018)

I see foolio has offered his 2 cents.


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## Unkotare (Jun 29, 2018)

Are these same people ready to equate highly developed athletic talent with skin color?


Just looking for honest answers.


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## Unkotare (Jun 29, 2018)

Nothing?


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## Correll (Jun 29, 2018)

IM2 said:


> This is Corrells study.
> 
> *Admission Preferences for Minority Students, Athletes, and Legacies at Elite Universities*
> Thomas J. Espenshade, Princeton University Chang Y. Chung, Princeton University Joan L. Walling, Princeton University
> ...




Wow. I don't know what is more damning to your argument.


That you didn't include a link so the whole article could be read, 


or that you so obviously cherry picked out small points from a multi page article.


Link please. So we can discuss your excepts in context.


You do WANT that, don't you? LOL!!!


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