# Chicago democrats…supporting gun crime again…they end police foot pursuits…what could go wrong?



## 2aguy (Jun 23, 2022)

One of the best ways to stop gun crime?  Arrest felons caught with illegal guns.  In Chicago, that just became much more difficult.

And before the anti-gun fanatics say this policy doesn’t end foot pursuit for actual crimes….tell us officers won’t simply choose not to pursue criminals on the off chance a democrat prosecutor will decide to destroy them over their decision to chase a criminal…

*Under the final policy, officers are prohibited from engaging in chases unless “there is a valid need to detain the person” that “outweighs the threat to safety posed by pursuit.”*
*
Officers can only chase suspects who have committed — or who are about to commit — a felony, a Class A misdemeanor or a traffic offense that “endangers the physical safety of others,” or an “arrestable offense” that “poses an obvious physical threat to any person.”
*
*Officers are prohibited from pursuing suspects engaged in some misdemeanors, like parking and ordinance violations, and certain traffic offenses such as licensing and insurance violations.*









						Chicago Police Department Releases Final Foot Pursuit Policy
					

The Chicago Police Department released a final version of a foot pursuit policy Tuesday, completing a lengthy process that came under heavy scrutiny after the fatal police shootings of 13-year-old Adam Toledo and 21-year-old Anthony Alvarez during chases last March.




					www.nbcchicago.com
				




Just what you want……..cops second guessing whether chasing a known thug vs. losing their career, their pensions or their freedom………

As Rudy Giuliani showed in New York….you can lower crime by taking on criminals who commit misdemeanors….because they more than likely have also committed other crimes……….

Democrats persecute the innocent and free the guilty….this is why we have gun crime in the U.S.


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## Failzero (Jun 23, 2022)

And they want us disarmed so they can protect us ?


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## Flash (Jun 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> One of the best ways to stop gun crime?  Arrest felons caught with illegal guns.  In Chicago, that just became much more difficult.
> 
> And before the anti-gun fanatics say this policy doesn’t end foot pursuit for actual crimes….tell us officers won’t simply choose not to pursue criminals on the off chance a democrat prosecutor will decide to destroy them over their decision to chase a criminal…
> 
> ...


My god those Democrats in Chicago are dumber than a door knob!!!

Runaway crime already so now they aren't even going to bother to chase after the criminals?

They are unwilling to do the hard work it takes to stop crime.

Democrats are destroying the great American cities.


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## johngaltshrugged (Jun 23, 2022)

Failzero said:


> And they want us disarmed so they can protect us ?


You got half of that right- they just want to disarm us.
It's pretty obvious they GDAS about protecting us or our kids.
A scared population is a compliant population ready to bend the knee


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## JoeB131 (Jun 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> One of the best ways to stop gun crime? Arrest felons caught with illegal guns. In Chicago, that just became much more difficult.



Yeah, this is why you don't do foot chases.


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## martybegan (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yeah, this is why you don't do foot chases.



Play stupid games, win lead prizes.

Now that the criminal won't be tied directly to the scene in these cases, expect prosecutions to plummet, if they are ever found afterwards at all.

Now they know if they run they can get rid of any evidence they have, and can claim they were never there.


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## JoeB131 (Jun 23, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Play stupid games, win lead prizes.



Yup, that kid totally deserved to be shot after listening to the officer's command to stop and put his hands up. 



martybegan said:


> Now that the criminal won't be tied directly to the scene in these cases, expect prosecutions to plummet, if they are ever found afterwards at all.



And so? All Toledo was guilty of was discharge of a firearm.  A charge that brings 1-3 years in prison and a fine, but usually ends up with just a fine.   It certainly wasn't worth a foot chase that resulted in his death. 



martybegan said:


> Now they know if they run they can get rid of any evidence they have, and can claim they were never there.



And so?


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## martybegan (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yup, that kid totally deserved to be shot after listening to the officer's command to stop and put his hands up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So more criminals knowing they can get away with more crime. You see that as a good thing?


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## 2aguy (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yeah, this is why you don't do foot chases.




You mean when criminals have guns and run.......and only drop them just before the officer fires at them?

You really hate cops......and will allow violent monsters to rape, and murder because of you hate for cops.


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## 2aguy (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yup, that kid totally deserved to be shot after listening to the officer's command to stop and put his hands up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah...just sending a bullet into the unknown......who cares about who it might hit...

You really are dumb...


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## JoeB131 (Jun 23, 2022)

martybegan said:


> So more criminals knowing they can get away with more crime. You see that as a good thing?



No, a good thing would be to have meaningful gun control, poverty relief, addiction treatment programs and programs to help the mentally ill.  But we aren't going to do that, so let's spend billions on thug cops and prisons. 



2aguy said:


> You mean when criminals have guns and run.......and only drop them just before the officer fires at them?



Wow, are you saying guns are a bad thing now?  



2aguy said:


> You really hate cops......and will allow violent monsters to rape, and murder because of you hate for cops.



Adam Toledo wasn't a murderer or a rapist.  Neither was Laquan McDonald. I'm pretty tired of paying out huge settlements for thug cops.  









						Chicago has authorized nearly $67M in police misconduct settlement payments so far this year
					

That $67 million, from Chicago taxpayers to cover police mistakes and misconduct, is more than the city is spending on violence prevention programs.




					abc7chicago.com
				






2aguy said:


> Yeah...just sending a bullet into the unknown......who cares about who it might hit...


Hey, we shouldn't impose ourselves on his second amendment rights.

Silly Darkie, rights are for white people.


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## martybegan (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No, a good thing would be to have meaningful gun control, poverty relief, addiction treatment programs and programs to help the mentally ill.  But we aren't going to do that, so let's spend billions on thug cops and prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those cities spend billions on that shit already, and criminals still criminal.

The whole progressive method of law enforcement is based on the false assumption that all criminals are just poor misunderstood righteous citizens that if given a chance will turn over their ways and never commit crimes again.

The reality is many of these criminals are lazy assholes who will always find the easy way to scrape by a living at the expense of their fellow, usually minority citizens.


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## 2aguy (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No, a good thing would be to have meaningful gun control, poverty relief, addiction treatment programs and programs to help the mentally ill.  But we aren't going to do that, so let's spend billions on thug cops and prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No…when criminals give 13 year old guns bad things happen…

The solution is to lock up those criminals


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## JoeB131 (Jun 23, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No…when criminals give 13 year old guns bad things happen…
> 
> The solution is to lock up those criminals


When you have a gun industry that floods our streets with guns and refuse to hold it accountable for all the people they kill, you can't whine that a 13 year old eventually gets one.


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## JoeB131 (Jun 23, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Those cities spend billions on that shit already, and criminals still criminal.


Not nearly enough.  

Let's take chicago-  Our 2022 budget for the police is 1.7 BILLION

Mental health.  They got a whopping 6 million dollar increase to hire 26 new people. 

Yet 10% of police encounters are with people with a mental health disorder 



martybegan said:


> The whole progressive method of law enforcement is based on the false assumption that all criminals are just poor misunderstood righteous citizens that if given a chance will turn over their ways and never commit crimes again.



No, we just realize that if you have grinding poverty, you will have crime.
If you have racism, you will have crime.
If you don't treat the mentally ill, you will have crime
If you don't treat addiction as a medical issue, you will have crime.

And especially- 

If you flood our streets with easy to acquire guns, YOU WILL HAVE CRIME.  



martybegan said:


> The reality is many of these criminals are lazy assholes who will always find the easy way to scrape by a living at the expense of their fellow, usually minority citizens.



Hmmm, "lazy".  

Check your privilege, it's showing again.


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## Hugo Furst (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yeah, this is why you don't do foot chases.



good news.

Adam will never make that mistake again.


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## martybegan (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Not nearly enough.
> 
> Let's take chicago-  Our 2022 budget for the police is 1.7 BILLION
> 
> ...



Fuck the privilidge thing, stop trying to be a Gen Z suck up.

Law abiding citizens don't get guns illegally, yet all the laws you want to pass would only impact them. 

The only way to treat the mentally ill in these cases is to lock them away until they get better, you OK with that?


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## Failzero (Jun 23, 2022)

Silly Whites , Special Rights are for Democrats


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## JoeB131 (Jun 23, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Fuck the privilidge thing, stop trying to be a Gen Z suck up.
> 
> Law abiding citizens don't get guns illegally, yet all the laws you want to pass would only impact them.



All guns used belonged to a "law abiding citizen" at one time.  Either they were stolen, sold or borrowed.   That's why you need to hold the gun makers and sellers responsible. 



martybegan said:


> The only way to treat the mentally ill in these cases is to lock them away until they get better, you OK with that?



I'm perfectly good with that.  I am also for mandetory medication orders. You stay on your pills or you go back to the loony hatch.


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## JoeB131 (Jun 23, 2022)

Hugo Furst said:


> good news.
> 
> Adam will never make that mistake again.



The mistake of surrendering to a cop?  Um, yeah, I guess.  

The next guy might try to shoot his way out.  I mean, why not.


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## Failzero (Jun 23, 2022)

I’m perfectly good with mandatory Drug tests with every firearm purchase ( And kick back 4473 Form if they fail due to Pot or SSRIs also along with other illegal drugs


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## martybegan (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> All guns used belonged to a "law abiding citizen" at one time.  Either they were stolen, sold or borrowed.   That's why you need to hold the gun makers and sellers responsible.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm perfectly good with that.  I am also for mandetory medication orders. You stay on your pills or you go back to the loony hatch.



You don't hold a car manufacturer responsible when someone steals a car, so your attempted point is retarded.


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## 2aguy (Jun 23, 2022)

martybegan said:


> You don't hold a car manufacturer responsible when someone steals a car, so your attempted point is retarded.




Oh.....but he wants to..........


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## Failzero (Jun 23, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> When you have a gun industry that floods our streets with guns and refuse to hold it accountable for all the people they kill, you can't whine that a 13 year old eventually gets one.


We can point out when an Illegal or eMe or MS13 or EDP gets one


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## JoeB131 (Jun 24, 2022)

martybegan said:


> You don't hold a car manufacturer responsible when someone steals a car, so your attempted point is retarded.



Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car.  You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot. 

Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.   









						Tennessee appeals court rules a person leaving keys in vehicle can be held responsible for a car thief's crash
					

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — A Tennessee appeals court has ruled that a person can be held responsible for a car thief's crash if the keys were left in the vehicle.The




					www.timesnews.net
				




So if someone is killed by a stolen gun, and you find out that the gun store has sold dozens of guns to the same straw buyer who reports them all "stolen", I'm all for letting a civil court sort it out.  

Again- RESPONSIBLE BUSINESS PRACTICES.


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## martybegan (Jun 24, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car.  You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.
> 
> Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.
> 
> ...



Actually anyone CAN have a car, shown by the number of idiots with licenses. 

If the store sold to a known straw buyer that's a federal crime and you go after the gun dealer and the purchaser.

Suing the manufacturers is just a way to try to get no one to make guns, i.e. and end run around the 2nd amendment. 


Stop trying to be slick, it isn't working.


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## 2aguy (Jun 24, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car.  You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.
> 
> Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.
> 
> ...



No……you hold the driver of the car responsible ……

You arrest the straw buyer because the gun store did its job….it ran a mandatory Federal Background check for every gun purchase…..the gun store broke no law….

Sadly, the democrat party prosecutor will either not press charges against the straw buyer or will give them an insanely low sentence……

The baby mommas, grandmothers, mothers and sisters who straw buy guns for their gang banger family member often do so under threat of violence….you idiot.


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## 2aguy (Jun 24, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car.  You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.
> 
> Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.
> 
> ...



And leftist asshat that you are, you are just greasy with sweat thinking about the opportunity to use legal warfare against every business in the country if you are ever allowed to sue gun makers and gun stores when a 3rd party uses their guns for crime……..

That is the truth…..

Car makers had better use their lobbyists against the attacks on gun makers…because they will be next…..


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## Hugo Furst (Jun 24, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car.  You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.
> 
> Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.
> 
> ...



So, if it's proven that the majority of vehicular fatalities are caused by males age 18-21 driving Fords, you would have no problem banning 18-12 year old males from owning Fords?


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## 2aguy (Jun 24, 2022)

Hugo Furst said:


> So, if it's proven that the majority of vehicular fatalities are caused by males age 18-21 driving Fords, you would have no problem banning 18-12 year old males from owning Fords?




Actually, knowing joe and other leftists...they don't want people to own cars....they want the plebes forced to take buses and trains.......so no, he wouldn't have a problem with that....but first......the guns....they need to get rid of the guns....


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## JoeB131 (Jun 24, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Suing the manufacturers is just a way to try to get no one to make guns, i.e. and end run around the 2nd amendment.



Or it's getting the industry to act RESPONSIBLY.  Just like every other industry has to.  

It's not that theymake guns that's the problem, it's that they make them so damned easy to get. 



2aguy said:


> And leftist asshat that you are, you are just greasy with sweat thinking about the opportunity to use legal warfare against every business in the country if you are ever allowed to sue gun makers and gun stores when a 3rd party uses their guns for crime……..



Quite the contrary...  the gun is a good target because it facilitates crimes and the gun industry is so damned irresponsible in who they sell to.  

Every other industry goes well out of its way to promote responsible use of their products, which is why every product has a ton of legal disclaimers.


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## 2aguy (Jun 24, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Or it's getting the industry to act RESPONSIBLY.  Just like every other industry has to.
> 
> It's not that theymake guns that's the problem, it's that they make them so damned easy to get.
> 
> ...




The gun industry is one of the most responsible industries in the country...they have to be...shitheads like you are trying to destroy them.....

The gun industry sells a product........if someone uses that legal product for a crime...you want to set them free.....you are the problem, not the gun makers.

List one gun company that encourages breaking the law with their guns....please, we will wait.....

Meanwhile, Americans use their legal guns, made by these gun companies, 1.1 million times a year to save lives, according to the Centers for Disease control.......to stop rapes, robberies, murders, beatings, stabbings, and yes, even mass public shootings......or 1.5 million times a year according to the Centers for Disease Control....or 2.5 million times a year according to the most indepth research by Gary Kleck..


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## JoeB131 (Jun 25, 2022)

2aguy said:


> List one gun company that encourages breaking the law with their guns....please, we will wait.....










2aguy said:


> Meanwhile, Americans use their legal guns, made by these gun companies, 1.1 million times a



Blah, lah, blah....   1.1 million times and only 200 dead bodies.   That doesn't pass the laugh test.


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## 2aguy (Jun 25, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> View attachment 662052
> 
> 
> 
> Blah, lah, blah....   1.1 million times and only 200 dead bodies.   That doesn't pass the laugh test.




Hey...dumb ass....where does that say go out and murder people......?

A man provides for his family, they protect their family, they help their neighbors.....you dumb ass.....


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## martybegan (Jun 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Or it's getting the industry to act RESPONSIBLY.  Just like every other industry has to.
> 
> It's not that theymake guns that's the problem, it's that they make them so damned easy to get.
> 
> ...



Kind of like California's AG office that just released the address of everyone with  CCW permit?

The gun industry sells to licensed firearm dealers. How is that irresponsible?

Car dealers don't need a federal license.


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## JoeB131 (Jun 30, 2022)

martybegan said:


> Kind of like California's AG office that just released the address of everyone with CCW permit?
> 
> The gun industry sells to licensed firearm dealers. How is that irresponsible?



Because some of those dealers work out of their homes, and no one is vetting them...

So again, let's allow gun victims to sue the gun makers and sellers, and you'd be AMAZED how quickly they clean up their acts.


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## Hugo Furst (Jun 30, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Because some of those dealers work out of their homes, and no one is vetting them...
> 
> So again, let's allow gun victims to sue the gun makers and sellers, and you'd be AMAZED how quickly they clean up their acts.


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## 2aguy (Jul 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car.  You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.
> 
> Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.
> 
> ...




The car manufacturers sell to dealerships.......so they have no connection to the actual buyer...just like gun makers...you dumb ass.....

If they sold guns to the same buyer, that buyer passed the Federally mandated background check...the gun store did nothing wrong....

When that straw buyer is captured and released by democrat party prosecutors, that is where the problem it.....not with the guys who obeyed all the laws.


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## JoeB131 (Jul 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> The car manufacturers sell to dealerships.......so they have no connection to the actual buyer...just like gun makers...you dumb ass.....



Again, do you really want to treat guns like cars?  Fine.  Let's have inspections, licensing, registrations, inspections and a large police force regulating their use.  

(Psst.. this is the part where you whine, 'THE FOUNDING FATHERS SAID I CAN HAVE A GUN!!!!"


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## 2aguy (Jul 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, do you really want to treat guns like cars?  Fine.  Let's have inspections, licensing, registrations, inspections and a large police force regulating their use.
> 
> (Psst.. this is the part where you whine, 'THE FOUNDING FATHERS SAID I CAN HAVE A GUN!!!!"




They inspect guns, and if they are actually mechanically defective, you can return them, if they hurt someone due to their defect, you can sue the gun maker.......

Licensing, and registration are unConstitutional......

Felons do not have to register the illegal guns they own......per the Haynes v United States supreme court ruling, in that requiring a criminal to register their illegal gun is a violation of their 5th amendment Right against self incrimination...

Licensing is also useless, because criminals cannot buy, own or carry guns, hence they can't register guns...

Licensing is against the Constitution.....

The police already regulate their use...if you are a felon, caught with a gun, you can be arrested and jailed....if you use a gun for a crime, you can already be arrested and jailed....


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## martybegan (Jul 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Because some of those dealers work out of their homes, and no one is vetting them...
> 
> So again, let's allow gun victims to sue the gun makers and sellers, and you'd be AMAZED how quickly they clean up their acts.



You can't sue a product manufacturer for a product that works as intended.


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## JoeB131 (Jul 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> (Psst.. this is the part where you whine, 'THE FOUNDING FATHERS SAID I CAN HAVE A GUN!!!!"





2aguy said:


> Licensing, and registration are unConstitutional......



See, it's like you can't fucking help yourself.  

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.


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## 2aguy (Jul 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> See, it's like you can't fucking help yourself.
> 
> The Constitution is not a suicide pact.



Yes…. It is not a suicide pact which is why it puts limits on people like you?


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## Bob Blaylock (Jul 2, 2022)

martybegan said:


> So more criminals knowing they can get away with more crime. You see that as a good thing?



  It is well-established that Incel Joe is always on the side of subhuman criminal filth, against the side of human beings.

  Always.

  It is no surprise at all that that is the side that it takes here, in this instance.


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## Bob Blaylock (Jul 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You mean when criminals have guns and run.......and only drop them just before the officer fires at them?
> 
> You really hate cops......and will allow violent monsters to rape, and murder because of you hate for cops.



  Not just for cops.  For all human beings.  For any nominally-human-like creature that is not a criminal, a pervert, or some other piece of subhuman shit.


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## Bob Blaylock (Jul 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Silly Darkie, rights are for white people.



_“Darkies”_ have exactly the same choice that white people do, or people of any other race, between behaving like human beings or behaving like subhuman animals.

  And with this choice come the same set of consequences.


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## Bob Blaylock (Jul 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, we shouldn't impose ourselves on his second amendment rights.



  Nothing in the Second Amendment includes or even implies a right to carelessly or maliciously discharge a firearm in such a manner as to unreasonable and unjustifiably harm, threaten, or endanger others.


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## Bob Blaylock (Jul 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No, we just realize that if you have grinding poverty, you will have crime.
> If you have racism, you will have crime.
> If you don't treat the mentally ill, you will have crime
> If you don't treat addiction as a medical issue, you will have crime.



  If there are too many people who are not taught, from an early age, the difference between rights and wrong, you will have crime.

  Kick God out of the schools, let all manner of evil and perversion in to fill the void thus left, undermine the family as the basis of society, encourage unfettered bastardy, and this is what you get.


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## flan327 (Jul 2, 2022)

Flash said:


> My god those Democrats in Chicago are dumber than a door knob!!!
> 
> Runaway crime already so now they aren't even going to bother to chase after the criminals?
> 
> ...


Then move to North Korea 

Try complaining about TPTB


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## flan327 (Jul 2, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> If there are too many people who are not taught, from an early age, the difference between rights and wrong, you will have crime.
> 
> Kick God out of the schools, let all manner of evil and perversion in to fill the void thus left, undermine the family as the basis of society, encourage unfettered bastardy, and this is what you get.


WHOSE GOD?

Yours?
Mine?
Allah?
Jehovah?


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## flan327 (Jul 2, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> It is well-established that Incel Joe is always on the side of subhuman criminal filth, against the side of human beings.  Always.
> 
> It is no surprise at all that that is the side that it takes here, in this instance.


Speak English please


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## Bob Blaylock (Jul 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> A man provides for his family, they protect their family, they help their neighbors.....you dumb ass.....



  Of course, the dumb ass that you are addressing is a nearly-sixty-year-old incel, who has never had a wife, never had a family, has no grasp of the responsibility of protecting and providing for a wife and family, and no grasp of what it means to be a real man.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 2, 2022)

2aguy said:


> One of the best ways to stop gun crime?  Arrest felons caught with illegal guns.  In Chicago, that just became much more difficult.
> 
> And before the anti-gun fanatics say this policy doesn’t end foot pursuit for actual crimes….tell us officers won’t simply choose not to pursue criminals on the off chance a democrat prosecutor will decide to destroy them over their decision to chase a criminal…
> 
> ...


This is a lie.

Democrats don’t ‘support’ gun crime – in Chicago or anywhere else.


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## Bob Blaylock (Jul 2, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> The Constitution is not a suicide pact.



  The Constitution is the highest law in this nation.


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## Bob Blaylock (Jul 2, 2022)

flan327 said:


> Speak English please



  Your illiteracy is your own issue, not mine.


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## Bob Blaylock (Jul 2, 2022)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Democrats don’t ‘support’ gun crime – in Chicago or anywhere else.



  You certainly support policies that have no intent nor effect other than to promote and increase crime.


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## JoeB131 (Jul 3, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> Not just for cops. For all human beings. For any nominally-human-like creature that is not a criminal, a pervert, or some other piece of subhuman shit.



Or a lady who wants to end an unwanted pregnancy.
Or a bureaucrat who proposes a tax you don't like.
Or people who make fun of your cult

Or a whole list of other people you'd like to kill if given a chance and you were weren't a chickenshit. 



Bob Blaylock said:


> _“Darkies”_ have exactly the same choice that white people do, or people of any other race, between behaving like human beings or behaving like subhuman animals.
> 
> And with this choice come the same set of consequences.



Oh, come on, Bob.  Get real.  Philandro Castille had a legal conceal carry permit and informed the cops he had one, and they shot him dead, anyway, with his girlfriend and daughter in the car.  

And the NRA didn't turn him into a national hero. 




Bob Blaylock said:


> Nothing in the Second Amendment includes or even implies a right to carelessly or maliciously discharge a firearm in such a manner as to unreasonable and unjustifiably harm, threaten, or endanger others.



Nothing in the Second Amendment says crazy people should have guns... it's about militias.  



Bob Blaylock said:


> If there are too many people who are not taught, from an early age, the difference between rights and wrong, you will have crime.
> 
> Kick God out of the schools, let all manner of evil and perversion in to fill the void thus left, undermine the family as the basis of society, encourage unfettered bastardy, and this is what you get.



Uh, yeah, 

Then how do you explain Europe?  They have done all the shit you say, no religion, gay rights, a higher illegitimacy rate than we have.  Yet they have NOWHERE near our crime levels. 



Bob Blaylock said:


> Of course, the @dumb ass that you are addressing is a nearly-sixty-year-old incel, who has never had a wife, never had a family, has no grasp of the responsibility of protecting and providing for a wife and family, and no grasp of what it means to be a real man.



Funny, I have a box full of medals from the Army that say otherwise... but you do keep obsessing about my sex life, because that's weird.


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## 2aguy (Jul 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Or a lady who wants to end an unwanted pregnancy.
> Or a bureaucrat who proposes a tax you don't like.
> Or people who make fun of your cult
> 
> ...



*Then how do you explain Europe?  They have done all the shit you say, no religion, gay rights, a higher illegitimacy rate than we have.  Yet they have NOWHERE near our crime levels.

Easy....they have a history of Monarchy, topped by two World Wars that provide so much culture shock they have behind the U.S. for decades, on top of 15 million innocent men, women and children murdered on top of the 60 million lost to World war 2........while the democrats were destroying the U.S. family with the Great Society, they were rebuilding their cities and their cultures...now, with that over, they are now seeing the destruction created by those exact things....lack of religion and illegitimacy........are now catching up to Europe.....and on top of that, they have imported 3rd world, violent young men to take over their criminal gangs....*

*You posted to soon........the violence in Europe is beginning to ramp up...Just ask Sweden and France, and you are seeing it in Britain as well...*


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Jul 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Or a lady who wants to end an unwanted pregnancy.
> Or a bureaucrat who proposes a tax you don't like.
> Or people who make fun of your cult
> 
> Or a whole list of other people you'd like to kill if given a chance and you were weren't a chickenshit.



  It is truly bizarre tha you think that you have any high ground on which to stand, to look down on me for wanting someone who would murder an innocent child in cold blood to be brought to proper justice.

  But then taking the side of violent criminals, taking the side of the very worst sort of murderer at all, is exactly in your character.  This truly demonstrates what a monstrous, murderous subhuman piece of shit you truly are.

  As for the other two instances, you're flat-out lying, and you know that you're lying.  I've never expressed any desire or intent for anyone to be put to death for either of those reasons.




JoeB131 said:


> Philandro Castille had a legal conceal carry permit and informed the cops he had one, and they shot him dead, anyway, with his girlfriend and daughter in the car.
> 
> And the NRA didn't turn him into a national hero.



  Not familiar with tha case.  On quickly skimming the Wikipedia article on him, it looks like a tragic failure of communication between him and the officer.  He had informed the officer that he was legally carrying a weapon, and being instructed not to reach for it, he acted in a manner that let the officer to think he was reaching for it.  A tragic case, to be sure, but whatever point you thought you were trying to make by citing, it, it does not seem to support.




JoeB131 said:


> Nothing in the Second Amendment says crazy people should have guns...* it's about militias.*



_“…the right of *THE PEOPLE*…”_




JoeB131 said:


> Bob Blaylock said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, the dumb ass that you are addressing is a nearly-sixty-year-old incel, who has never had a wife, never had a family, has no grasp of the responsibility of protecting and providing for a wife and family, and no grasp of what it means to be a real man.
> ...



  Really?

  The Army gave you medals for having a wife and family, and for protecting and providing for them?

  I'm skeptical.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> *Easy....they have a history of Monarchy, topped by two World Wars that provide so much culture shock they have behind the U.S. for decades, on top of 15 million innocent men, women and children murdered on top of the 60 million lost to World war 2........while the democrats were destroying the U.S. family with the Great Society, they were rebuilding their cities and their cultures...now, with that over, they are now seeing the destruction created by those exact things....lack of religion and illegitimacy........are now catching up to Europe.....and on top of that, they have imported 3rd world, violent young men to take over their criminal gangs....*
> 
> *You posted to soon........the violence in Europe is beginning to ramp up...Just ask Sweden and France, and you are seeing it in Britain as well...*



Oh, bullshit, you are ignoring the obvious.  

Europe doesn't have a high crime rate because they don't let average citizens own guns.  Period, full stop.   

They have nowhere near the problems we have.  When they rebuilt their societies after WWII, they used liberal models, with New Deal Democrats showing them how... So while they've pulled ahead, we've fallen behind rehashing the same bad Republican ideas.  




Bob Blaylock said:


> Really?
> 
> The Army gave you medals for having a wife and family, and for protecting and providing for them?



No, I got them from defending the country... 

The Army pretty much discourages marriage... for good reason.  Do you know what the divorce rate is for active duty people? 



Bob Blaylock said:


> It is truly bizarre tha you think that you have any high ground on which to stand, to look down on me for wanting someone who would murder an innocent child in cold blood to be brought to proper justice.



Can you name ONE COUNTRY any time in history that has executed a woman for having an abortion?   Because if this was "proper justice", you would think somewhere in the world, that would have happened. 

The only Country that executed people for PERFORMING Abortions was Nazi Germany and its puppet states like Vichy France.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 3, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> Not familiar with tha case. On quickly skimming the Wikipedia article on him, it looks like a tragic failure of communication between him and the officer. He had informed the officer that he was legally carrying a weapon, and being instructed not to reach for it, he acted in a manner that let the officer to think he was reaching for it. A tragic case, to be sure, but whatever point you thought you were trying to make by citing, it, it does not seem to support.



Your point was that black people can legally own guns just like white people under the Militia Amendment...  

But here was a black man, with a legal gun, cooperating with the police, being gunned down by a cop and the cop was not held responsible. 

Silly Darkies.  Rights are for White People.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Oh, bullshit, you are ignoring the obvious.
> 
> Europe doesn't have a high crime rate because they don't let average citizens own guns.  Period, full stop.
> 
> ...



*Europe doesn't have a high crime rate because they don't let average citizens own guns.  Period, full stop.  

You are ignoring the actual evidence that before they banned and confiscated guns, they had low crime rates and low gun crime rates...after they banned guns it remained the same, but is now a growing problem.........so the facts don't support what you say....*

*Then, throw in 27 years of American experience and your theory completely falls apart..*

Over  27 years,  from 1993  to the year 2015, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019 (in 2020 that number is 21.52 million)...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

*Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.*


This means that access to guns does not create gun crime........

Why do our democrat party controlled cities have gun crime problems?

*What changed in 2015?*

The democrat party did 3 things...

1) they began a war on the police that forced officers to stop pro active police work, allowing criminals to run wild.

2) they began to release the most violent and dangerous gun offenders over and over again, not matter how many times they had been arrested for gun crimes

3) they used their brown shirts, blm/antifa to burn, loot and murder for 7 months in primarily black neighborhoods while the democrat party mayors ordered the police to stand down and not stop them......in order to hurt Trump during the election.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Oh, bullshit, you are ignoring the obvious.
> 
> Europe doesn't have a high crime rate because they don't let average citizens own guns.  Period, full stop.
> 
> ...



The reason they have been able to hobble along as long as they have is the United States pays for their military protection......if the U.S. and our guns were not on the Continent, they would have started killing each other again, and they would likely be speaking Russian....

We pay for their protection, so they have been able to spend all of their money on their welfare states...which are now no longer able to afford paying for their benefits anymore....without American medical technology and research, they wouldn't have modern medical procedures or techniques, and without the U.S. paying for everything over there, they wouldn't have the technological advance...like cell phones....

Europe is the millennials living in the basement of the U.S. playing video games all day long while we keep the world safe....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You are ignoring the actual evidence that before they banned and confiscated guns, they had low crime rates and low gun crime rates...after they banned guns it remained the same, but is now a growing problem.........so the facts don't support what you say....



Nope.   The fact is that they don't let average citizens own guns and have low crime rates despite lack of belief in sky pixies, high illegitimacy, etc.  

The only different factor is... guns.   



2aguy said:


> The reason they have been able to hobble along as long as they have is the United States pays for their military protection......if the U.S. and our guns were not on the Continent, they would have started killing each other again, and they would likely be speaking Russian....



Wow, what an inflated opinion of ourselves you have.   

Turns out the Evil Empire was a collection of third world countries.  They were smart not to bankrupt themselves buying $600.00 toilet seats.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Jul 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> But here was a black man, with a legal gun, cooperating with the police, being gunned down by a cop and the cop was not held responsible.



  From what accounts I was able to find, he was doing a poor job of cooperating.  It seems that he likely meant to cooperate, but failed to do so in a manner as to avoid giving the officer good reason to fear that he was reaching for his gun.

  He didn't die because he was black.  He died because he was a dumbass.  A white man in exactly the same position, behaving in exactly the same manner, would surely have ended up just as dead.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Nope.   The fact is that they don't let average citizens own guns and have low crime rates despite lack of belief in sky pixies, high illegitimacy, etc.
> 
> The only different factor is... guns.
> 
> ...



Nope.....average citizens don't use their guns for crime, you moron, so taking guns away from them doesn't lower the crime rate, you idiot.........and yet the criminals on the Continent use fully automatic military rifles as their choice of crime gun......how do you explain that?   And what about the grenades they like to throw at each other......


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 3, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> From what accounts I was able to find, he was doing a poor job of cooperating. It seems that he likely meant to cooperate, but failed to do so in a manner as to avoid giving the officer good reason to fear that he was reaching for his gun.
> 
> He didn't die because he was black. He died because he was a dumbass. A white man in exactly the same position, behaving in exactly the same manner, would surely have ended up just as dead.



Get real, Bob... the man was cooperating, informed the officer he had a gun, and the cop shot him.  

A white man in the same position NEVER would have been shot.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 3, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope.....average citizens don't use their guns for crime, you moron, so taking guns away from them doesn't lower the crime rate, you idiot.........and yet the criminals on the Continent use fully automatic military rifles as their choice of crime gun......how do you explain that? And what about the grenades they like to throw at each other......



Most murders are domestic violence.  You already know this.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Most murders are domestic violence.  You already know this.




No, they aren't......


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 3, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Get real, Bob... the man was cooperating, informed the officer he had a gun, and the cop shot him.
> 
> A white man in the same position NEVER would have been shot.




More whites are killed by police than blacks, you doofus.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> More whites are killed by police than blacks, you doofus.



we are 70% of the population... I would hope so.  Not that the police should be killing ANYONE, but when you have a gun-happy country like we have, you are going to have cops kill someone because they whipped out a gun or they might whip out a gun. 

For instance, US Cops shoot 1000 suspects a year.  Compare that to the UK, (which despite your dystopian claims, have nowhere near our crime rates.) where the police kill less than 5 people a year. Of those, 300 or so are black, even though blacks are only 12% of the population.   Blacks are also more likely to be shot if they are unarmed or if they are cooperating like Mr. Castille was.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> we are 70% of the population... I would hope so.  Not that the police should be killing ANYONE, but when you have a gun-happy country like we have, you are going to have cops kill someone because they whipped out a gun or they might whip out a gun.
> 
> For instance, US Cops shoot 1000 suspects a year.  Compare that to the UK, (which despite your dystopian claims, have nowhere near our crime rates.) where the police kill less than 5 people a year. Of those, 300 or so are black, even though blacks are only 12% of the population.   Blacks are also more likely to be shot if they are unarmed or if they are cooperating like Mr. Castille was.




Yeah.....the criminals in Britain used to respect the British police......that isn't the way it is now and it is getting worse.....assaults against British officers are increasing, and with that you will eventually see more and more violence going both ways...


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah.....the criminals in Britain used to respect the British police......that isn't the way it is now and it is getting worse.....assaults against British officers are increasing, and with that you will eventually see more and more violence going both ways...



You've been singing this song for a decade, DickTiny. 

The Brits have nowhere near our level of crime because they don't let any idiot who wants a gun have one.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You've been singing this song for a decade, DickTiny.
> 
> The Brits have nowhere near our level of crime because they don't let any idiot who wants a gun have one.




Their criminals have all the guns they want and they are getting more...up to this point they have been shooting to wound, not kill...that is changing..


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Their criminals have all the guns they want and they are getting more...up to this point they have been shooting to wound, not kill...that is changing..



Of course they are getting more... the gun industry is practically handing them out.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Of course they are getting more... the gun industry is practically handing them out.




In Britain?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 4, 2022)

Hey, 2AGuy, another second amendment purist shot up six people in Highland Park today. 

Keep up the good work.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, 2AGuy, another second amendment purist shot up six people in Highland Park today.
> 
> Keep up the good work.




You are speaking too soon.........we'll get back to this when they Id the shooter.....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> You are speaking too soon.........we'll get back to this when they Id the shooter.....



I can already tell you, we'll find out two things about this guy. 

1) Everyone in his life knew he was nuts. 

2) IT was still way too easy for him to get a gun.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I can already tell you, we'll find out two things about this guy.
> 
> 1) Everyone in his life knew he was nuts.
> 
> 2) IT was still way too easy for him to get a gun.




He will be known to the police, and they will have done nothing....

He will be known to his school....and they did nothing....

His friends and family knew he was nuts, and did nothing.....

Since you god, government, did nothing.....no arrests, no mental health stays......he won't have had a record that would have popped on the federally mandated background check.....

So no, it won't have been easy for him to get a gun......you god simply failed.....

That is how it might go down...

But again, we will see...the above types don't tend to run away.....they kill themselves....we will see if this was a politically motivated shooting.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> He will be known to the police, and they will have done nothing....
> 
> He will be known to his school....and they did nothing....
> 
> ...



I don't give a fuck about his motives. 

This is someone who SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD A GUN.  

But people like you made it possible for him to get a gun.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I don't give a fuck about his motives.
> 
> This is someone who SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD A GUN.
> 
> But people like you made it possible for him to get a gun.




And likely, your god, government, failed to arrest him when they had the chance.....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And likely, your god, government, failed to arrest him when they had the chance.....



We can't go around arresting everyone.   
We have 2 million people in prison.  
It's not solving the problem. 

But let's find out who this kid is, and how he got a gun... and we'll see I am right.  

Everyone in his life knew he was nuts
Someone was too willing to sell him a gun.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We can't go around arresting everyone.
> We have 2 million people in prison.
> It's not solving the problem.
> 
> ...




We can arrest the guys who break the law.......and that will keep them from passing the current, federally mandated background checks you guys wanted.

*Everyone in his life knew he was nuts

At this point he isn't following the pattern for that type of shooter........

If he didn't have a criminal record, he passed the current, federally mandated background check....*


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We can arrest the guys who break the law.......and that will keep them from passing the current, federally mandated background checks you guys wanted.
> 
> *Everyone in his life knew he was nuts
> 
> ...



We don't have enough space in the jails to arrest everyone who is in violation of gun laws. 

If the background system is weak, it's because you Ammosexuals insisted on it being weak.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> We don't have enough space in the jails to arrest everyone who is in violation of gun laws.
> 
> If the background system is weak, it's because you Ammosexuals insisted on it being weak.




Yeah...we have plenty of space...you idiots keep releasing the ones who actually do the shooting.

The background check works up to the point your god, government, refuses to arrest known, violent, actual criminals....then, they don't show up on the Federal Background check lists.....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah...we have plenty of space...you idiots keep releasing the ones who actually do the shooting.
> 
> The background check works up to the point your god, government, refuses to arrest known, violent, actual criminals....then, they don't show up on the Federal Background check lists.....



No, it really doesn't.  

Here's an example of a background check. 

I got a home loan for my new Condo.   In the process of giving me this loan, the bank (whom I have been a customer of for the last 20 years!) inspected every aspect of my life.  Checked the liability on every property I owned, checked the financials of my personal business, talked to every credit card company that ever extended me a line of credit, talked to my employer, got copies of my tax returns for the last few years.  And this was despite the fact I had a credit score of 803, which is considered quite good!  They even asked about a line of credit I opened at a furniture store, but hadn't actually bought anything yet. 

THAT'S A BACKGROUND CHECK. 

A background check is not 'I typed his name into an underfunded and incomplete database, and maybe I spelled it right, and nothing came up."


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No, it really doesn't.
> 
> Here's an example of a background check.
> 
> ...




Nope....you owning a condo isn't protected by the Bill of Rights......

We gave you Federal level background checks.....your gods agents, continue to not arrest and jail actual nut jobs...so when they go to a gun store, they don't have a criminal record......

A mere criminal record check would deny them the gun...if your god, government, would simply arrest and convict them instead of letting them go without doing anything.....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 4, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Nope....you owning a condo isn't protected by the Bill of Rights......
> 
> We gave you Federal level background checks.....your gods agents, continue to not arrest and jail actual nut jobs...so when they go to a gun store, they don't have a criminal record......
> 
> A mere criminal record check would deny them the gun...if your god, government, would simply arrest and convict them instead of letting them go without doing anything.....



So housing isn't a right, but a gun is? 

That's... .kind of fucked up.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Jul 4, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> So housing isn't a right, but a gun is?
> 
> That's... .kind of fucked up.



  A gun isn't a right any more than housing is.

  Nobody is obligated to provide you with a gun.  If you want one, you need to pay for it with your own money.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 5, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> A gun isn't a right any more than housing is.
> 
> Nobody is obligated to provide you with a gun. If you want one, you need to pay for it with your own money.



Um, yeah, Mormon Bob, the point went right over your head, didn't it? 

I actually have no problem with it being difficult for me to get a mortgage on my home.  The fact was, in the Aughts, they were handing out mortgages to people to buy more house than they needed.   Then the crash came, and a lot of people defaulted and the banks were stuck with houses they couldn't sell for that they loaned them out at.  That's when the government and banks SENSIBLY made it harder to get a loan.  So even though I was in a far better position economically in 2021 than I was in 2004 when I got my last mortgage, they made sure to check off all the boxes before they approved it. 

Now, compare that to guns.  We have a lot of people buying guns who plain old shouldn't have guns.  This kid yesterday (you have that picture of him on your wall pretending it's me, don't you?) was pretty clearly mentally disturbed, and he had no problem walking into a gun store, plopping down his $400.00, and walking out with a gun that he proceeded to use to kill six people who just wanted to have a nice Fourth of July watching a parade. 

Now just for shits and grins yesterday, I actually applied for an Illinois FOID card.  Just to see if it is as harsh as you guys say when you whine about Illinois having supposedly strict gun laws. 

$10.00 processing fee, and asking me questions about my criminal history (none).  All I had to do was pinky swear I wasn't, and that was it. Now, I don't know what kind of investigation they can actually do for $10.00, but I'm sure it's thorough.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> I don't give a fuck about his motives.
> 
> This is someone who SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD A GUN.
> 
> But people like you made it possible for him to get a gun.




And.....the police knew about this guy, as did the mental health community........they could have arrested this guy or committed him for his suicide attempt or his threats to "kill everyone,"...........and your god, government, failed again.....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 5, 2022)

2aguy said:


> And.....the police knew about this guy, as did the mental health community........they could have arrested this guy or committed him for his suicide attempt or his threats to "kill everyone,"...........and your god, government, failed again.....



Hey, then let's give government free reign to go after gun nuts....  but you'll be the first one to bitch when they come to your house over something crazy you wrote on Social Media. 

So to review. 

Everyone in his life knew he was nuts.
The Gun industry sold him FIVE count them FIVE guns.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Hey, then let's give government free reign to go after gun nuts....  but you'll be the first one to bitch when they come to your house over something crazy you wrote on Social Media.
> 
> So to review.
> 
> ...



He passed every single mandatory background check…..because in Illinois, where we already have Red Flag laws, the cops and the medical professionals didn’t do their jobs….your god, government, failed…..the gun makers and gun stores actually did their jobs


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 5, 2022)

2aguy said:


> He passed every single mandatory background check…..because in Illinois, where we already have Red Flag laws, the cops and the medical professionals didn’t do their jobs….your god, government, failed…..the gun makers and gun stores actually did their jobs



You don't leave a dangerous bridge up because it failed. 

You build a better bridge. 

If the current laws didn't stop this guy from getting a gun, then you need better laws.  

Of course, the gun makers and stores look at the laws as "something we need to get around", which is why they push for shit like the Gun Show Loophole and the Private Sale Loophole.  

Which is why I think the ultimate solution would be, let the victims sue everyone involved. 

The Gun Maker
The Gun store(s)
The City of Highland Park
The Illinois State Police.  

Then let them all come to court and prove they weren't the ones who fucked this up. 

But when THIS walks into your store





And you sell him FIVE guns, someone needs to ask why you thought that was a good idea.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> You don't leave a dangerous bridge up because it failed.
> 
> You build a better bridge.
> 
> ...



There is no loophole…..you guys can’t tell the truth if your lives depended on it…the gun makers didn’t break any laws… that burns your ass because you hate them…..

The shooter passed every Federally required background check…they did nothing wrong…..they obeyed the laws you wanted….now you blame them

Your god failed….government agents whose job it is to arrest dangerous people didnt arrest this guy… that is why he was able to buy those guns

Government shrinks failed to commit this guy when he attempted suicide….they failed….

You are blaming the wrong people….


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 5, 2022)

2aguy said:


> One of the best ways to stop gun crime?


Arm everyone and shoot back.

But too many cowards for that


----------



## Bootney Lee Farnsworth (Jul 5, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> If the current laws didn't stop this guy from getting a gun, then you need better laws.


Or quit trying to stop something you can't stop at the expense of the rights of others.

What a concept.

Right?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 6, 2022)

2aguy said:


> There is no loophole…..you guys can’t tell the truth if your lives depended on it…the gun makers didn’t break any laws… that burns your ass because you hate them…..



No, I hate them because they produce a product that kills people and they don't really care who gets them.

If I produced a product that was regularly being misused, I wouldn't WAIT for the government to regulate it properly.  I'd put safeguards in myself to keep them from getting into the wrong hands.  And if it turned out that I couldn't keep my product out of the wrong hands, I might even stop producing that product and find something else to do for a living.   And a lot of sensible companies do exactly that.  After 9/11, the Airlines did a whole lot of things to keep that from ever happening again.  The toy companies stopped making lawn darts after a few kids got impaled through the skull. 







2aguy said:


> The shooter passed every Federally required background check…they did nothing wrong…..they obeyed the laws you wanted….now you blame them



Guy, I didn't get the laws I wanted because the National Rampage Association prevented them.

Here's the law I would have had. 

It would have cost $500.00 to get a FOID card.  For that FOID Card, an investigator would have not only talked to the HPPD, but the man's neighbors, employers, School, and family.   They would have gone on line and checked his social media accounts. 

In short, they would have found out EVERYTHING we knew by Tuesday about this guy.   And then he would have gotten a big old fat "REJECTED" on his FOID card application.

Instead, what we have is a $10.00 fee to get a FOID card, some bored civil servant punched in his name, and either missed the two 2019 arrests, or HPPD didn't enter them properly.



Bootney Lee Farnsworth said:


> Or quit trying to stop something you can't stop at the expense of the rights of others.
> 
> What a concept.
> 
> Right?



Except it can be EASILY stopped, as every other industrialized country has proven.  This is a UNIQUELY American problem.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No, I hate them because they produce a product that kills people and they don't really care who gets them.
> 
> If I produced a product that was regularly being misused, I wouldn't WAIT for the government to regulate it properly.  I'd put safeguards in myself to keep them from getting into the wrong hands.  And if it turned out that I couldn't keep my product out of the wrong hands, I might even stop producing that product and find something else to do for a living.   And a lot of sensible companies do exactly that.  After 9/11, the Airlines did a whole lot of things to keep that from ever happening again.  The toy companies stopped making lawn darts after a few kids got impaled through the skull.
> 
> ...




Cars are regularly misused...to the point they kill far more people than guns do....and we let 16 year olds drive them......according to you, with 39,000 dead due to cars....we need to not only ban cars, but sue car makers out of business since they obviously don't care that their cars are used to kill people......


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> No, I hate them because they produce a product that kills people and they don't really care who gets them.
> 
> If I produced a product that was regularly being misused, I wouldn't WAIT for the government to regulate it properly.  I'd put safeguards in myself to keep them from getting into the wrong hands.  And if it turned out that I couldn't keep my product out of the wrong hands, I might even stop producing that product and find something else to do for a living.   And a lot of sensible companies do exactly that.  After 9/11, the Airlines did a whole lot of things to keep that from ever happening again.  The toy companies stopped making lawn darts after a few kids got impaled through the skull.
> 
> ...




Joe...we get it...you are a fascist...you don't have to keep reminding us.......you want people unarmed for your eventual "solution," to societies problems...


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 6, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Cars are regularly misused...to the point they kill far more people than guns do....and we let 16 year olds drive them......according to you, with 39,000 dead due to cars....we need to not only ban cars, but sue car makers out of business since they obviously don't care that their cars are used to kill people......



Cars aren't designed to kill people.  Most gun deaths are intentional.  Most car deaths are accidental. 

But if you want to treat guns like cars, I'm down with that... That means licensing, registration, mandetory insurance and a lot of cops whose job is to monitor and regulate their use. 

(AND THIS is the part where you whine about how it's your "Right" to have a gun, missing the point again.)


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 6, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Joe...we get it...you are a fascist...you don't have to keep reminding us.......you want people unarmed for your eventual "solution," to societies problems...



43,000 gun deaths
70,000 gun injuries
400, 000 gun crimes
270 BILLION In economic loss related to gun violence. 

YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Cars aren't designed to kill people.  Most gun deaths are intentional.  Most car deaths are accidental.
> 
> But if you want to treat guns like cars, I'm down with that... That means licensing, registration, mandetory insurance and a lot of cops whose job is to monitor and regulate their use.
> 
> (AND THIS is the part where you whine about how it's your "Right" to have a gun, missing the point again.)




Yeah.....high speed objects hitting human beings isn't designed to kill people....they are simply larger bullets......

Yeah....Rights mean fascists like you can't do what you want....a century of mass graves filled with innocent people should be enough of a lesson.....


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> 43,000 gun deaths
> 70,000 gun injuries
> 400, 000 gun crimes
> 270 BILLION In economic loss related to gun violence.
> ...




Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to save lives....from rape, robbery, murder, beatings, stabbings and mass public shootings...

Lives saved...

600 million guns in private hands......over 21.25 million Americans can carry guns legally in public for self defense.........



Gun deaths...the truth....


Of the gun murder deaths....over 70-80% of the victims are not regular Americans....they are criminals...murdered by other criminals in primarily democrat party controlled cities....where the democrat party judges, prosecutors and politicians have released them over and over again no matter how many times they are arrested for felony, illegal gun possession and violent crimes with guns...that's on you and your political party...not normal gun owners



Lives saved....based on research?  By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?



Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct

*that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—
*


Money saved from people not being beaten, raped, murdered, robbed?.......





*So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.*
*
Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.
*
*I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.*
*
When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”

Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”

So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.

*
*https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/defensive-gun-use-savings-dwarf-gun-violence-costs/*

*And the research........*

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..*
*
The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.*
*https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3887145*


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Jul 6, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Cars aren't designed to kill people. *Most gun deaths are intentional.* Most car deaths are accidental.



  That's a rather important point, that you never seem willing to address.

  A murder does not happen because there is a weapon present.

  A murder happens because a nominally-human creature has the desire and intent to take the life of a human being.

  Removing the weapon does not address the problem.

  The only way to solve the problem is to remove the murderer.

  And you consistently oppose any policy that would do so.  You consistently take the side of subhuman criminals shit, against the side of actual human beings, as you are doing here.  Your _“solution_ is to leave the criminal free to prey on human beings, and to make sure that the human bei9ng is deprived of the means to defend himself, knowing damn well that nothing that you propose will in any way prevent the criminal from acquiring and using a weapon against the human that you want to render defenseless.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 7, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> That's a rather important point, that you never seem willing to address.
> 
> A murder does not happen because there is a weapon present.
> 
> ...



Except most murderers are just regular people who had a bad day, and a gun was available.  The British, the Japanese, the Germans don't have these problems.  Either because they don't let their citizens own guns, or they vet who can have them. 



Bob Blaylock said:


> And you consistently oppose any policy that would do so. You consistently take the side of subhuman criminals shit, against the side of actual human beings, as you are doing here. Your _“solution_ is to leave the criminal free to prey on human beings, and to make sure that the human bei9ng is deprived of the means to defend himself, knowing damn well that nothing that you propose will in any way prevent the criminal from acquiring and using a weapon against the human that you want to render defenseless.



Except guns never prevent people from being murdered, they just make it easier to murder people. 

According to the FBI, only 200 homicides BY CIVILIANS involving guns are ruled as "justified".   Which means of the other 18000 or so gun homicides, the gun happened to be there when an argument went sideways.  Are some of them "career criminals" (i.e. poor people of color)?   Sure.  And a lot of them are clean cut white people who just had an argument that went bad.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Except most murderers are just regular people who had a bad day, and a gun was available.  The British, the Japanese, the Germans don't have these problems.  Either because they don't let their citizens own guns, or they vet who can have them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, that is a lie…..as you have been shown over and over again…….90% of murderers have long criminal records going back to their teen years, usually with several felonies


The Japanese give their police vast powers that would make your head spin, since you hate cops, and they actually lock up their gun criminals instead of releasing them over and over again….the British police state they can’t stop the increasing flow of illegal guns off their island and after they banned guns, they still have the same number of mass public shootings……

Germany?

They murdered 15 million men, women and children over just 6 years….more innocents murdered than 246 years of criminals in the U.S. Murdering each other…..

And you know that defensive gun use averages 1.1 million times a year, according to the Centers for Disease Control……

You know the truth but you choose to lie…..


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No, that is a lie…..as you have been shown over and over again…….90% of murderers have long criminal records going back to their teen years, usually with several felonies



100 million Americans have a police record, that gets you nothing. 



2aguy said:


> The Japanese give their police vast powers that would make your head spin, since you hate cops, and they actually lock up their gun criminals instead of releasing them over and over again….the British police state they can’t stop the increasing flow of illegal guns off their island and after they banned guns, they still have the same number of mass public shootings……



The Japanese only lock up 69,000 people.  We lock up 2 million, and we have to let people go because we don't have enough cells or guards.  

The British haven't had a public mass shooting since 2021.  The ones before that were in 2018 and 2010. 

We can't go a month without three large mass shootings. 



2aguy said:


> And you know that defensive gun use averages 1.1 million times a year, according to the Centers for Disease Control……


I know THREE people who were killed with guns.

I know ZERO who stopped a crime with a gun.  

Statistically, if there really were 1.1MM DGU's, I should know dozens of cases.  

I don't know... one.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> 100 million Americans have a police record, that gets you nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You have seen this before...here it is again...

The Criminology of Firearms
In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

*Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.*

*While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."*


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> 100 million Americans have a police record, that gets you nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Japan actually locks up their gun criminals for long sentences..that is how they stopped the Yakuza wars, where they would use fully automatic weapons and grenades against each other....our democrat party judges keep releasing violent gun offenders over and over again....

For example....this would never happen in Japan.....he would not have been released and he would have served at a minimum a full 10 years...but not here......where the democrats let him out...

*Davis was originally arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a license in Detroit, and the judge assigned to his case ordered that Davis wear a GPS monitoring device as a condition of his bond. There’s nothing unusual about that, but what’s raising eyebrows, particularly among local police, is what happened after prosecutors repeatedly told the judge that Davis was violating the terms of his bond, including allegedly taking part in a drive-by shooting.*
----------
*So, by the time Davis appeared before the judge in late May, he’d already had five alleged bond violations and two arrests for separate incidents, including the drive-by shooting. The judge could have ordered Davis’ bond revoked and remanded him into custody until his trial, 

but instead Hathaway took a much different approach: continuing his bond but ordering the removal of the GPS monitoring device that had alerted authorities to his alleged lawbreaking.
-----

As you might have guessed, that didn’t stop Davis’ alleged criminal activity. About a month later police, who were now paying attention to Davis’ social media feeds, watched on Instagram as Davis held a gun and allegedly threatened violence against other individuals.
---
The low bonds are an issue, but they’re not the only problem. The fact that Davis was arrested twice on gun-related charges (including a violent felony offense) and the judge decided the best course of action was to remove his GPS monitoring entirely can’t be blamed on staffing woes or other shortfalls in the local court system. In Wayne County, however, those in charge are pointing fingers rather than accepting responsibility.*









						Detroit drive-by shooting a case study in not enforcing existing laws
					

Police are fuming, while judges and prosecutors are pointing fingers over a judge's unfathomable decision.




					bearingarms.com


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> 100 million Americans have a police record, that gets you nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Since the gun and confiscation in Britain, they have maintained their average of 1 mass public shooting every 10 years....something they had before they banned guns...showing that guns do not create mass public shootings....

And after the ban, the Cumbria and Plymouth mass public shooters in Britain....?   What law, exactly, kept them from walking into a school and shooting English kids and teachers?

Not to forget all the guns in Britain that the police say are increasing every year.....what keeps the criminals with those guns from committing mass public shootings?


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> 100 million Americans have a police record, that gets you nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Tell that to the Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Justice........and the other 16 studies on gun self defense....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense 

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)


2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and  Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million  averaged over  those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. _Journal of Quantitative Criminology_, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*2021 national firearms survey..

The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,*
*----*
*The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.*
2021 National Firearms Survey


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 7, 2022)

More gun crazy from TooTinyGuy.



2aguy said:


> You have seen this before...here it is again...



And it's still bullshit.  One out of three Americans has a police record, so it's pretty easy to claim that any murderer (even one who gets into a domestic or acquaintance homicide) was a "hardened criminal".  



2aguy said:


> Japan actually locks up their gun criminals for long sentences..that is how they stopped the Yakuza wars, where they would use fully automatic weapons and grenades against each other....our democrat party judges keep releasing violent gun offenders over and over again....


Japan only locks up 69,000 people of 133 million.
We lock up 2 million out of a population of 330 million




2aguy said:


> Since the gun and confiscation in Britain, they have maintained their average of 1 mass public shooting every 10 years....something they had before they banned guns...showing that guns do not create mass public shootings....


 Wow, do you even hear yourself sometimes. 

ONE MASS SHOOTING EVERY TEN YEARS.  

vs. 

A MASS SHOOTING JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER WEEK


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Jul 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> One out of three Americans has a police record…



  I call bullshit.

  I do not have a police record.  Neither, as far as I know, do any of my close family or acquaintances.

  It may be true among your associates, but that would be a reflection on you and the company that you keep; and not on Americans in general.

  Most of us, unlike you, do not associate with criminals, nor take the side of criminals against the side of human beings.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> More gun crazy from TooTinyGuy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




We had a total of 6 mass public shootings in 2021.....6 people out of over 330 million people....they killed a total of 43 people....

Deer kill 200 people every year

ladders kill 300 people every year

lawn mowers kill between 90-100 people every year.....

Trying to ban rifles based on those numbers is insane....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 7, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> I call bullshit.
> 
> I do not have a police record. Neither, as far as I know, do any of my close family or acquaintances.
> 
> ...



Correcting your ignorance would be full time job, Mormon Bob. 

But. 









						Just Facts: As Many Americans Have Criminal Records as College Diplomas
					

With as many criminal convictions as college degrees, it's more evident than ever why "ban the box" laws are important for the economy.




					www.brennancenter.org
				




The number of Americans with a criminal history has risen sharply over the past three decades. Today, nearly one-third of the adult working age population has a criminal record. In fact, so many Americans have a criminal record that counting them all is nearly impossible.

According to a 2012 Department of Justice survey, state criminal history repositories contain more than 100 million records. These are popularly referred to as “rap sheets” or “criminal records” although most people who have them have never been convicted of a serious crime. 

America now houses roughly the same number people with criminal records as it does four-year college graduates.

Nearly half of black males and almost 40 percent of white males are arrested by the age 23.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Correcting your ignorance would be full time job, Mormon Bob.
> 
> But.
> 
> ...




Dipshit.....again....

The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

*Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.*

*While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."
----*


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Dipshit.....again....



Dipshit... again..


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Dipshit... again..
> 
> View attachment 667521




We know how to prevent it.......you guys just want to take guns away from people who don't commit crime or mass public shootings with them....

And again, Britain had 2 mass public shootings.......what kept those guys from going into a school.....?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 7, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We know how to prevent it.......you guys just want to take guns away from people who don't commit crime or mass public shootings with them....
> 
> And again, Britain had 2 mass public shootings.......what kept those guys from going into a school.....?



They had 2.  We've had hundreds. 

You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.  

Perfect world, no one would have guns.  The gun factories would be owned by the government, only issued to government contracts, and the police would be able to kick down the door of anyone suspected of having a gun and confiscating them. 

Even I think this would be going too far. 

But, hey, how about giving some real scrutiny to the NEW gun owners who want to cause some mayhem.  It seems like every mass shooter bought his guns within days or weeks of going on their rampage. 

So let's put scrutiny on all NEW purchases.   Let's even grant that the Ammosexual stroking his gun for the last five years is unlikely to go on a rampage now. 

But if some freakshow shows up at a gun store with orange or pink hair, maybe, just maybe, we do a little more than check his FOID card before we give him enough firepower to fight the Zombie Apocolypse.


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 7, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> They had 2.  We've had hundreds.
> 
> You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
> 
> ...




We haven't had hundreds.......we have over 330 million Americans... last year 6 committed acts of mass public shooting.....

They had your perfect world in Europe....the enemies of the state were banned from owning guns.....the government then went on to murder 15 million innocent men, women and children...that you guys ignore this is just insane.....

Wrong....mass shooters, including the Highland Park guy planned the attack for weeks if not longer, some upwards of 2 years...

And we should do the same for people who drive cars........since mass public shooters killed 43 people in 2021.....cars killed over 49,000.......no one gets to drive a car if they have pink hair......there you go...


----------



## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> We haven't had hundreds.......we have over 330 million Americans... last year 6 committed acts of mass public shooting.....



Why do you keep lying?  

We had 693 mass shootings last year. 






						List of mass shootings in the United States in 2021 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> They had 2.  We've had hundreds.
> 
> You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
> 
> ...




Yeah...we see what happens when the government controls the guns.....Mexico...murder rate higher than the U.S....Europe...15 million innocent men, women and children murdered by their governments in just 6 years......Russia, 25 million murdered.....China, 70 million and more murdered....

WE get it....to you that is a good start, you hate people.....to us?  We will not give up our guns to morons like you...


----------



## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Why do you keep lying?
> 
> We had 693 mass shootings last year.
> 
> ...



Nope......we had 6 last year according to the actual Definition...

US mass shootings, 1982–2022: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed. We adopted that baseline for fatalities when we gathered data in 2012 on three decades worth of cases. 
-------


Here is a description of the criteria we use:


The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three; our database reflects this change beginning from Jan. 2013, as detailed above.)
The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.)
The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.) 
*Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence).*



Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies.
We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“—cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria.
----------------------
Our research focused on indiscriminate rampages in public places resulting in four or more victims killed by the attacker. 

*We exclude shootings stemming from more conventionally motivated crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. (Or in which the perpetrators have not been identified.) *

Other news outlets and researchers have since published larger tallies that include a wide range of gun crimes in which four or more people have been either wounded or killed. While those larger datasets of multiple-victim shootings are useful for studying the broader problem of gun violence, our investigation provides an in-depth look at a distinct phenomenon—from the firearms used and mental health factors to the growing copycat problem. Tracking mass shootings is complex; we believe ours is the most useful approach for studying this specific phenomenon.



---------
The actual number of mass shootings from Mother Jones......

Here you go...the number of mass public shootings according to Mother Jones...rabid, anti gun, left wing news source.....not the NRA...

The list below comes from the old definition of 4 killed to make a shooting a mass shooting...if you now go to the link there are more than listed below...but that is because Mother Jones changed the list from the time I first posted it...and changed to obama's new standard of only 3 dead to make a mass shooting...



US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2021...6
2020....2

2019....10

2018... 12

2017:  11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

*US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation*




330 million Americans......how many committed mass public shootings in 2021....

6

How many did they murder....

43

*Deer kill 200 people a year.....

Lawn mowers between 90-100 people a year....

Ladders 300 people a year....

bathtubs 350 people a year...

Cars killed over 39,000 people in 2019...

So....6 people in a country of over 330 million committed mass public shootings....and for this, you think we should ban 600 million guns...?


 Total number of people killed in mass public shootings by year...

*
2021...43
2020....5
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
*2016......71*
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8


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## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Yeah...we see what happens when the government controls the guns.....


Yes, you have low crime rates...  



2aguy said:


> Mexico...murder rate higher than the U.S....Europe...15 million innocent men, women and children murdered by their governments in just 6 years......


Mexico has a high crime rate because we've been flooding the country with guns.  

As for "Europe", the Europeans had plenty of guns in World War II.  

Hitler REPEALLED the Weimar gun laws.  (which weren't terribly effective to start with, which is why communists and Nazis had gun battles in the street. )  But this funny thing happened.  When the Nazis came for the Jews, not a one of those German citizen soldiers ran out and tried to stop them.  

When the Army tried to overthrow Hitler in the July 20 plot, none of those German citizens rushed out and tried to take their country back.   In fact, most of them considered those officers traitors.  

Oh, they did fight to the last old man and little boy in the _Volksgrenadiers_ with those guns when the Allies closed in, which just prolonged the agony.


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## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes, you have low crime rates...
> 
> 
> Mexico has a high crime rate because we've been flooding the country with guns.
> ...




No, Mexico has a high crime rate because the government and the cartels have the guns.........and our guns aren't flooding Mexico, the Mexican military is taking the guns we sell them and giving them to the cartels........you idiot.....

The Hitler lie?  Again?

Hitler took guns away from Jews and the political opposition parties...then he murdered them....

By the time they went after the Jews, no one could stand up to the socialists........because they gave up their guns in the 1920s.....


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## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> No, Mexico has a high crime rate because the government and the cartels have the guns.........and our guns aren't flooding Mexico, the Mexican military is taking the guns we sell them and giving them to the cartels...











						Stopping toxic flow of gun traffic from U.S. to Mexico
					

Mexican officials, Harvard health policy scholars, and Georgetown law professor discuss a landmark lawsuit targeting U.S. firearm firms.




					news.harvard.edu
				




Mexican officials have said that a significant part of the epidemic of violence and crime that has plagued their nation in recent decades is driven by the illicit traffic of weapons from the U.S. Mexico has restrictive firearms laws, with one gun store in the entire nation and only about 50 permits issued per year. _*Between 70 to 90 percent of guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico can be traced back to the U.S.*_ Drug cartels, in particular*, *buy those weapons in the U.S., mostly in Texas or Arizona, and smuggle them across the border.



2aguy said:


> Hitler took guns away from Jews and the political opposition parties...then he murdered them....



Uh, the Jews were only a VERY SMALL part of Germany's population.  Most Germans owned guns...not a one rushed out to save the Jews.   They were more like, "Can I have his stuff?"  

That's why I don't buy the "I needs my guns to fights the government" shit you people say.. because most of you are chickenshits who would just go along.


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## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Stopping toxic flow of gun traffic from U.S. to Mexico
> 
> 
> Mexican officials, Harvard health policy scholars, and Georgetown law professor discuss a landmark lawsuit targeting U.S. firearm firms.
> ...




Moron...the government is as bad as the cartels.......the U.S. sells guns to the Mexican military who then diverts them to the cartels......

And the 70-90% lie?   Again......?   Really?

*For several years now, Stratfor has been closely watching developments in Mexico that relate to what we consider the three wars being waged there. Those three wars are the war between the various drug cartels, the war between the government and the cartels, and the war being waged against citizens and businesses by criminals.*
*-------*
By the Numbers​As we discussed in a previous analysis, the 90 percent number was derived from a June 2009 U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) report to Congress on U.S. efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico (see external link).

According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. 

In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. 

This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were _not_ traced back to the United States.











						Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth
					

It is a common claim that almost all the weapons used by Mexican drug cartels come from the United States, but the numbers don't add up.




					worldview.stratfor.com
				



======


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-control-laws-a-model-for-the-united-states/


*Whatever the exact percentage, it is incorrect to assert that purchases from American gun stores for the purposes of smuggling into Mexico are the prime source of American guns in Mexico.
*
* To the contrary, of the Mexican guns that are successfully traced to the U.S., the average firearms age is fifteen years, according to data compiled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives.*
*
 The age of these guns is strong evidence that they were legal American guns that were stolen and then sold into the black market–and not guns which were bought at a gun store as part of a plan for them to be immediately transported to Mexico.*
*http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/ryan-mauro/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms/2/*

Stratfor: The World's Leading Geopolitical Intelligence Platform


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## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Stopping toxic flow of gun traffic from U.S. to Mexico
> 
> 
> Mexican officials, Harvard health policy scholars, and Georgetown law professor discuss a landmark lawsuit targeting U.S. firearm firms.
> ...




It isn't just the Jews in Germany.....when you don't support the nazis, and your business is looted and burned, and the police just stand by....and you can do nothing to stop them because you don't have guns......then there is little chance moderates can keep the tiny number of socialist monsters from taking power.....

Guns in the hands of normal people keep political discourse from turning violent....that is why the democrat party brown shirts, blm and antifa, only burn, loot and kill in black neighborhoods where the democrats control the police and have enacted extreme gun control....

The blm and antifa brown shirts kept walking past the home of the couple who had guns, but burned, looted and killed in gun controlled cities controlled by the democrats....


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## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

2aguy said:


> Moron...the government is as bad as the cartels.......the U.S. sells guns to the Mexican military who then diverts them to the cartels......
> 
> And the 70-90% lie? Again......? Really?



Uh, everything you don't like is fake news... got it.


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## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, everything you don't like is fake news... got it.




I posted the links to the truth.....you lying asshole...


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## Bob Blaylock (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Perfect world, no one would have guns. The gun factories would be owned by the government, only issued to government contracts…



  History has clearly shown us what your _“perfect world”_ looks like.


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## AZrailwhale (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car.  You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.
> 
> Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.
> 
> ...


Auto dealers will sell to anyone.  I bought my first car from a dealer and drove it off the lot in 1970.  THEN I went to DMV to take my driving test.  The only thing the dealer cares about is getting paid for the car.


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## AZrailwhale (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car.  You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.
> 
> Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.
> 
> ...


Also, just like Gun makers, Auto makers DON'T sell to the public.  They sell to retail sellers who then sell to the public.


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## AZrailwhale (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, that's because the auto manufacturers just don't let anyone have a car.  You have to be licensed, insured and registered to drive that car off the lot.
> 
> Actually, we do hold people responsible for recklessly making cars available.
> 
> ...


That article isn't very clear, but all it looks to say is that the court allowed the suit to go forward, NOT that the car owner was responsible. The decision said the POLICE DEPARTMENT wasn't responsible for the results of the chase.


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## AZrailwhale (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> View attachment 662052
> 
> 
> 
> Blah, lah, blah....   1.1 million times and only 200 dead bodies.   That doesn't pass the laugh test.


To misquote Inigo Montoya: "I don't think that means what you think it does".  It doesn't say a single thing about using that gun for illegal activities.


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## AZrailwhale (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Because some of those dealers work out of their homes, and no one is vetting them...
> 
> So again, let's allow gun victims to sue the gun makers and sellers, and you'd be AMAZED how quickly they clean up their acts.


A dealer doesn't need a storefront.  I've known dealers who worked out of their homes.  They had to file and maintain the same records a seller with a storefront did.  They have to meet the same inspection requirements a brick-and-mortar store does.  Selling guns without a license is a federal felony and will get you serious prison time, Here's an excerpt from the BATF website: "*The federal Gun Control Act (GCA) requires that persons who are engaged in the business of dealing in firearms be licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Federal firearms licensees (FFL) are critical partners in promoting public safety because—among other things—they help keep firearms out of the hands of prohibited persons by running background checks on potential firearms purchasers, ensure that crime guns can be traced back to their first retail purchaser by keeping records of transactions, and facilitate safe storage of firearms by providing child safety locks with every transferred handgun and having secure gun storage or safety locks available any place where they sell firearms. A person who willfully engages in the business of dealing in firearms without the required license is subject to criminal prosecution, and can be sentenced to up to five years in prison, fined up to $250,000, or both".*


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## AZrailwhale (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Nope.   The fact is that they don't let average citizens own guns and have low crime rates despite lack of belief in sky pixies, high illegitimacy, etc.
> 
> The only different factor is... guns.
> 
> ...


Let's compare the UK and the USA.
Total number of violent crimes in the USA =(NOT PER CAPITA RAW NUMBERS) 1,313,105.  USA population= 331,450,000
Total number of violent crimes in the UK and Wales (NOT PER CAPITA RAW NUMBERS) = 1,778,507. UK and Wales population= 59,440,000
Data from Statista.com
So not only does the UK have larger raw numbers of violent crimes than the USA, but roughly a sixth of the population. Tell us again how gun control cuts violent crime.  Criminals are actually emboldened by gun control.  The UK's violent crime rates skyrocketed after their gun ban, it's now about SIX times higher than the USA per capita.


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## AZrailwhale (Jul 8, 2022)

JoeB131 said:


> Of course they are getting more... the gun industry is practically handing them out.


British and European criminals are getting their guns from the Middle East and Eastern Europe, NOT the USA.


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## 2aguy (Jul 8, 2022)

AZrailwhale said:


> British and European criminals are getting their guns from the Middle East and Eastern Europe, NOT the USA.




And their favorite guns are the fully automatic weapon of war....the AK-47........their criminals actually do use weapons of war...our criminals do not.


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## JoeB131 (Jul 8, 2022)

Bob Blaylock said:


> History has clearly shown us what your _“perfect world”_ looks like.



Um, guy, History shows us that human beings are shitty to each other... no matter who has the guns. 

Heck, the Francher Party had a whole bunch of guns crossing Utah, but the Mormon State still murdered them all at Mountain Meadow.


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