# Ancient depictions of pre-Indo-Europeans native (white - red or blond hair)



## historycisalpin (Apr 22, 2015)




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## historycisalpin (Apr 22, 2015)




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## peach174 (Apr 22, 2015)

So what do you want us to do?
Put up more images like those you posted or have a discussion on how the red haired people moved to other areas like Peru and Egypt?


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## historycisalpin (Apr 22, 2015)

peach174 said:


> So what do you want us to do?
> Put up more images like those you posted or have a discussion on how the red haired people moved to other areas like Peru and Egypt?



You'd see that these traits are typical and native of old Europe, before the arrival of the Middle Eastern peoples Aryans.

Post Scriptum:

Fransisco Villar wrote:

The northern Germany and Scandinavia were themselves colonized later by Central European groups.
It was during this process that for the first time the physical traits of blond hair and blue eyes coincided with those of the Indo-European language.
The Indo-European (Aryan) ancestral so they were not blond. The blondness was a physical trait of pre-Indo-European peoples of northern Europe, whose indo was partial, since about population groups from which descend the Germans and Celts, but not the ancestors of the Finns, who never came to adopt an Indo-European Language.


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## Art__Allm (Apr 24, 2015)

historycisalpin said:


> The northern Germany and Scandinavia were themselves colonized later by Central European groups.
> It was during this process that for the first time the physical traits of blond hair and blue eyes coincided with those of the Indo-European language.
> The Indo-European (Aryan) ancestral so they were not blond. The blondness was a physical trait of pre-Indo-European peoples of northern Europe, whose indo was partial, since about population groups from which descend the Germans and Celts, but not the ancestors of the Finns, who never came to adopt an Indo-European Language.



Well, in regions with less sun you can only survive if you have less pigment in your skin, hairs and eyes, because your body can only produce vitamin D if it has less pigment.

Any race has variations in skin pigmentation, and individuals with less pigment in their skin have a better chance to survive and reproduce.

So in about 1000 years a group of dark skinned people can completely change their skin colour.

The fair skin or hair is not restricted to the Caucasian race, there are a lot of Mongoloid people in Russia who have blue eyes, fair hair and skin, but they have a completely different shape of the scull, they look like Mongolians, not like Caucasians.

The skin pigmentation changes more quickly, than scull shape, that is why there are white Caucasians and white Mongolians, but uneducated people talk about the "white race", ignoring the fact that there are white Mongoloid and white Caucasoid people who are two different races.


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## historycisalpin (Apr 25, 2015)

Art__Allm said:


> historycisalpin said:
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skin pigmentation does not vary depending on the climatic factor, if Vosse really true, then you should find an Arab with white skin, blue eyes and blond hair / red.
Are typical features that distinguish one ethnic group from another, as, indeed, the body of a person, the stature, the compliance of the skull, eye color and hair.
The Mongols of white skin are the result of mixed ethnic occurred with Slavic populations in the territories of the steppes.
The Caucasian Aryans (the real ones), have dark hair and dark eyes, and are located in Turkey, in Iran, among the Greeks (in part Slavs) and southern Italians, but also in the Arabian Peninsula,


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## Art__Allm (Apr 27, 2015)

historycisalpin said:


> skin pigmentation does not vary depending on the climatic factor, if Vosse really true, then you should find an Arab with white skin, blue eyes and blond hair / red.



Of course it does variate, and there are Arabs with white skin and blue eyes.

http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/images/map_of_skin_color_distribution.gif

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01925/Bashar-al-Assad-su_1925765b.jpg




historycisalpin said:


> The Mongols of white skin are the result of mixed ethnic occurred with Slavic populations in the territories of the steppes.



No, these ethnic groups are very ancient, they are older than Slavs or Mongols.

The analysis of fissile DNA confirms that.

As we see in the charts, there is no correlation between haplogroups and the pigmentation of skin, hair or eyes, but there is a correlation between skull shape and the haplogroups:

http://www.scs.illinois.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf


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## historycisalpin (Apr 27, 2015)

Art__Allm said:


> Of course it does variate, and there are Arabs with white skin and blue eyes.
> 
> http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/images/map_of_skin_color_distribution.gif
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> http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01925/Bashar-al-Assad-su_1925765b.jpg.



will be part of a minority, the result always imbastardimenti with indigenous European



Art__Allm said:


> No, these ethnic groups are very ancient, they are older than Slavs or Mongols.
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> The analysis of fissile DNA confirms that.
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There are many studies regarding the DNA, and not all coincide with each other.
One should not take into account only volumes of compliance of the skull to track a particular ethnic framework, but we must also take into consideration the size, the size, the color of the skin, eyes and hair ..

Do you really think that the Slavs have not bastardized with peoples Mongols Asian ???

Are lands that have seen several kingdoms in the course of their history and various migratory flows with different ethnic groups, especially a question of geography territorial ...
It is a mixture of Nordic, Asian (Mongols) and Aryan (Middle East) ..

The peoples of old Europe gylany (pre-Indo-European) were mostly lower in stature, light-skinned and blond hair reddish.

there are blatant ethnic diversity among these three groups:

gylany pre-Indo-Europeans indigenous











Semitic Middle East (true Aryans)





















pygmies Dravidian (indigenous peoples gylany africa and india pre Aryan):
















the truth is that we are not all equal, and not all come from the same ancestral womb.


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## longly (May 8, 2015)

Art__Allm said:


> historycisalpin said:
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Most Chinese are white. I would not be surprised to find a blond haired Mongolian; their ancestors took a lot of women captive in Europe during the time of the Mongol empire. But I don’t expect there are a lot of them for the same reason the blacks in Europe during the Roman empire disappeared shortly after the all of the empire. .


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## longly (May 8, 2015)

Art__Allm said:


> historycisalpin said:
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Most Chinese are white. I would not be surprised to find a blond haired Mongolian; their ancestors took a lot of women captive in Europe during the time of the Mongol empire. But I don’t expect there are a lot of them for the same reason the blacks in Europe during the Roman empire disappeared shortly after the all of the empire. .


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## Agit8r (May 8, 2015)

historycisalpin said:


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All human beings are genetically 99.9% indistinguishable.


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## historycisalpin (May 9, 2015)

longly said:


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The fact that we were the ethnic mixtures throughout history, does not mean that we all come from the same womb ancestral ..

You forgot the expansionism  process   ethnic/military of the Carthaginians in Italy

P.S.
The peoples of the Arab / Semitic in origin were not Negroid Africans, this mixture took place as a result of the colonization of the peoples Indo-Aryans / Iranian / Aryan, northern africa center


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## longly (May 9, 2015)

Agit8r said:


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Yes, but a lot of that DNA is junk that we share with chips, plants and one cell organisms. You are distantly related to a tree in that you both share a common ancestor.


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## Agit8r (May 9, 2015)

longly said:


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Nonetheless, we DO all come from the same "ancestral womb"


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## Picaro (May 9, 2015)

Well, there are other possibilities for things like red or blonde hair in ancient paintings and among races that don't normally have such features.

hair color - nutrition and hair color

Symptoms of malnutrition

Rare these days, but most probably not rare at all in most early peoples, where famines and poor diets were the norm most years.


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## Picaro (May 9, 2015)

historycisalpin said:


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I do agree that the 'out of Africa' theory is probably wrong, and that humans could have 'originated' in more than one region of the planet. I don't see a lot of racial features that change merely because of environment and climate, frankly.  Don't know that it matters much now, given all the migration and inter-breeding over 40,000 or so years. I don't know of many people who are going to fall down and worship you just because of your DNA, hair color, or anything else, in any case. After all, those degenerate inferior Slavs overran half of  'pure Aryan'  Germany in '45, and the grand leader of the Aryan Super Race died a whining, sniveling coward, committing suicide in a bunker  in Berlin. If the 'Aryans' thought their Hero was so grand, just how 'smart' and 'superior' could they really be as a 'race' after making such a stupid mistake?


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## historycisalpin (May 9, 2015)

longly said:


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You're right, but what about human beings know that originally it was not so, and then, I think it's wrong to do all the grass a single beam.


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## historycisalpin (May 10, 2015)

Agit8r said:


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Not really, just look at the physical traits of each of us to seize that we are not all equal.
Most often it does not match the genetic archeology, ethnology and anthropology.


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## Agit8r (May 10, 2015)

historycisalpin said:


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Well, individual differences are obvious.  Take racists for instance. They've only learned to use the reptile portion of their brains.  But it is questionable how much of that deficiency is due to nature as opposed to nurture.


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## historycisalpin (May 10, 2015)

Picaro said:


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The physical differences / anthropological that distinguish an ethnic group from another are not due to climatic factors / environmental, or nutritional.

with the collapse of the Roman Empire (the last bastion of the Aryan civilization, born in Mesopotamia) and the subsequent barbarian invasions, he walked slowly to radicere in the social fabric of Europe, that ideal, distorted, Nordic man who fitted the classic archetype (speaking ethnic / racial) of pure Aryan, but was only a lie secular game in the Middle Ages.Keep in mind that the current European company, is nothing but the constant company of the old medieval feudalism Germanic-style oligarchic, with the addition of capitalism and technology.The Roman Empire was the Middle East Mesopotamian (Aryan) as the barbarian kingdoms were to northern Europe. The Western ""civilization"" Eurocentric (which later came to America as a result of European colonialism) is derived from the ancient Romans, which ultimately derives from that of the Greeks, which in turn is derived from the Babylonian / Mesopotamian / Aryans.

The Orientalists think that the philosophy of the Greeks, fathers of Western thought, which then became a Eurocentric thought, comes from the East. In the Far East, there have been some of the philosophical religious experiences before the birth of Greek philosophy: Buddhism (which is always born a Hindu and then a Ariano apostate who founded a new religious philosophy) Hinduism (which comes from the Iranian Vedism - Arians ) Confucianism, Taoism and Zoroastrianism (which was founded in ancient Persia - now Iran - Aryans).

The Arab-Berber element brought to the Christian new technological and scientific knowledge, particularly in agriculture, but unknown (sugarcane, artichoke, rice, spinach, bananas, raisins, citron, lemon, sweet orange and cotton, as well as various spices, such as cinnamon, cloves, nutmeg - namely Muscat - cardamom, ginger or saffron) or reintroducing crops abandoned by the end of the so-called classical period "old" (first of all the olive tree and apricot). Other contributions were fundamental in the science of mathematics, algebra and trigonometry, the decimal system and the concept of zero (elaborated in the Indian context). Another technological innovation attributed to the Arabs in the West is the introduction of the compass, already in use in China.

Muslims developed greatly medicine, alchemy (parent of modern chemistry) geometry and astrology, with the attached astronomical studies (remember the introduction of the astrolabe). In philosophy, their contribution contribution to continental Europe was terrific and, thanks to translations prepared by them or by them commissioned, it came to know quite a few texts of philosophy and scientific thought in Hellenistic product. Even the symbol of the imperial eagle is derived from the Middle East, but also the uses and customs of the peoples Greek - Etruscan and Roman, their ornaments, religious cults and the mythology that it brings.

The sculptural techniques of temple construction, hydraulic engineering, monumental architecture, always derived from Mesopotamia, the ancient sewage system, the urban system, which was created and developed as a result of the permanence of the Aryan peoples / growers Arab / Semitic.

Patriarchy, monotheism patriarchal, despotic and theocratic states, the numbering system and mathematical calculations have arisen also in Mesopotamia, as, indeed, the earliest use of written signs, derived from Meso / Semitic. The Neolithic Revolution, which applies only to the inclusion of agriculture in Europe, always brought the populations Arabic / Semitic (Aryans), from the Fertile Crescent (Mesopotamia), the Semitic alphabet / Phoenician gave inspiration to the greek ..


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## Meathead (May 10, 2015)

What's the point? Diffusion has been long recognized. Civilizations started in very fertile areas which demanded organization and sets of laws by which people could peacefully cohabit and defend their wealth from outsiders. These ideas naturally spread to adjacent areas by land and sea and these "cradles" often were in turn influenced by those who had taken and adapted them as in Alexander's spread of Hellenism to Mesopotamia and Egypt.

Perhaps the most interesting chapter of history were the fledgling civilizations of the Amerinds who developed without any diffusion and were at the cusp of marked achievements in writing and technology. Alas, a more advanced civilization brought an abrupt and complete end to what would have been a fascinating evolution.


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## historycisalpin (May 10, 2015)

It depends on what we mean by civilization ..
Personally, I think that the only people really peaceful and civil libertarians have been those within societies gylany pre-Indo-europeans.


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## Art__Allm (May 11, 2015)

historycisalpin said:


> Do you really think that the Slavs have not bastardized with peoples Mongols Asian ???



Mongols are a very recent phenomenon.
There are no fissile pure Mongolian sculls that are older than the fissile sculls that seem to be something between Caucasian and Mongolian Sculls.

The ancient inhabitants of Eurasia had traits that cannot be defined by today standards, and that proves that some ancient Eurasian ethnic groups that look like white and blue eyed Mongolians are not a result of recent race mixing. These groups may be the ancestors of both Slavs and Mongols.


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## Meathead (May 11, 2015)

Art__Allm said:


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The Ainu people of Japan, said to have predated the migration of the Japanese to the islands are also said by some to be of Caucasian origin.


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## historycisalpin (May 11, 2015)

Art__Allm said:


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That is a phenomenon of the Slavs "recent", if you think about the fact that they stem almost exclusively of rus of Kiev (Scandinavian migrated in today's Russia in barbaric age) ..
Russia pre-Slavs was a vast territory populated by Siberians, Mongolians / Asian and Arab / Semitic (real Aryans) who migrated to Russia and in the steppes Pontic-caspian following the iranian culture of Andronovo.


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## Meathead (May 11, 2015)

Ancient migrations are very difficult to track. Artifacts are of some help but DNA, which has become so convoluted because of eons of interbreeding makes the best of theories close to a shot in the dark. Fascinating stuff for sure, but there are only so many pages of the human story we are able to see with any certainty.


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## historycisalpin (May 11, 2015)

Archeology, ethnology, anthropology, DNA tests, the study of ancient history, the study of ancient customs. traditions and religious mythology, can serve to shed light where there is still light.


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## longly (May 15, 2015)

The origin, rise and migration of ancient peoples is fascinating for the same reason that a mystery novel is fascinating. Using reason and working with limited clues we can we can come to some reasonable conclusions.

But I feel need to clear up some points:

First, the Aryans were a group of Indo-Europeans speaking people who invaded southwest Asia at about the same time another group of Caucasians the Greeks made there way into present day Greece. In both case they found their new homes occupied by darker skinned Caucasians the Semitic speaking peoples. The Semitics and Aryans are both Caucasians the only difference being the Semitics had been the area for thousands of years. And when the Semitic arrived in southern Eurasia they overwhelmed and displaced the thinly populated Negroid peoples who were the original inhabitance.

Also, the Aryans also invaded India and their most prominent present day descendants are the Iranians (Persians).


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## historycisalpin (May 15, 2015)

longly said:


> The origin, rise and migration of ancient peoples is fascinating for the same reason that a mystery novel is fascinating. Using reason and working with limited clues we can we can come to some reasonable conclusions.
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> But I feel need to clear up some points:
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In fact, we talk about a progressive orientalization ethno-cultural and religious matrix Semitic - Aryan of the Mediterranean, and not the other.

The uses and customs of the peoples Greek - Etruscan and Roman were of Semitic tradition / Babylonian / Aryan, their ornaments, religious cults and the mythology that it derives from the Middle East. Astrology came to life in the East, in Mesopotamia (earth mother of the true Aryans Arabic / Semitic), where the atmosphere makes it appear clear celestial bodies closer and more powerful than the gloomy northern sky.
Their advanced astronomical knowledge later influenced the scientific culture of Egyptian, Indian, Greek and Roman. And in fact the Mesopotamian astronomy is the first phase of astronomy Western.
The literature of the Assyrian-Babylonian, unearthed from the excavations carried out since the mid-nineteenth century., Establishes that the origins of astronomy and astrology is a powerful place in the plain between the Tigris and the Euphrates. The scope of ancient Nineveh, and precisely on the site of the ancient library of King Ashurbanipal, have been found clay tablets in cuneiform script, (about 4,000 tablets and fragments of them, now housed in the British Museum) breakapart groups depending on the content.
The names of the planets in Western culture (Eurocentric) are derived from the customs of the Romans, which ultimately derive from those of the Greeks, which is itself derived from the Babylonian / Mesopotamian / Aryans.
The sculptural techniques of temple construction, hydraulic engineering, monumental architecture, the sewage system is always ancient Mesopotamian derivation. the urban system, which was created and developed as a result of the permanence of the Aryan peoples / growers - Arabic / Semitic,

patriarchy, monotheism patriarchal, despotic and theocratic states, the philosophical / religious monotheistic: "In the far East there have been some of the philosophical religious experiences before the birth of Greek philosophy: Buddhism (which is always born a Hindu and then by Aryan apostate who founded a new religious philosophy) Hinduism (which comes from the Iranian Vedism - Aryans) Confucianism, Taoism and Zoroastrianism (which was founded in ancient Persia - now Iran from a Semitic Aryan) ". numbering system and mathematical calculations have arisen also in Mesopotamia, as, indeed, the oldest use of written signs, derived from Meso / Semitic, the Neolithic revolution, which applies only to the inclusion of agriculture in Europe, always they brought the populations Arabic / Semitic (Aryan), from the Fertile Crescent (Mesopotamia), the Semitic alphabet / Phoenician gave inspiration to the greek.


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## Delta4Embassy (May 15, 2015)

historycisalpin said:


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Worth adding, and while this isn't an area of expertise, I know not every color of ink or dye was available, so before using ancient art to make a point, you should understand what colors were actually available in the time period.


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## historycisalpin (May 15, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


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I highly doubt that the ethnic, highlighted by the ancient art on the wall representations, vascular, sculptural and Mosaic, will depend on the amount of colors that were available at the time.
Do not underestimate the skills and knowledge that were in use in ancient times, it would make a big mistake, but also to beginners.


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## Delta4Embassy (May 15, 2015)

historycisalpin said:


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Ya, ancient people were studs in the academic realm believing if you had sex with certain animals you'd absorb their virility.


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## historycisalpin (May 15, 2015)

Delta4Embassy said:


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Your and an example that is not relevant to the discussion, so much so that you can not judge an ancient people only from their ancient customs.

It would be as if I reputassi ancient Romans uncivilized because of the orgiastic rites / religious who used to practice.


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## historycisalpin (May 15, 2015)

different times equivalent to different socio-cultural and religious, as, indeed, as also chary traditions and customs.

Different ethnic groups are equivalent to different ways of living and understand their lives, which result in different societies and cultures.


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## longly (May 19, 2015)

These pictures look like Roman art therefore if that is the case they are not examples of Pre Indo-European culture. The Latin people, which the Romans were a part, spoke an Indo-European language. They could have come from the Middle east, but that world be odd since all the other early Caucasian people of the Middle East were Semitics, or at least the ones that survived.


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## historycisalpin (May 19, 2015)

longly said:


> These pictures look like Roman art therefore if that is the case they are not examples of Pre Indo-European culture. The Latin people, which the Romans were a part, spoke an Indo-European language. They could have come from the Middle east, but that world be odd since all the other early Caucasian people of the Middle East were Semitics, or at least the ones that survived.



These artistic paintings date back to the late Roman and medieval, showing people with clear whether pre-Indo-European / indigenous, their Indo-European language did not match their pre Indo-European ethnicity.

Totally different from these portraits meso / Semitic / Aryans era Greek - Etruscan and Roman:

Type ethnic peoples Etruscan Greek and Roman US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


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## historycisalpin (Mar 13, 2017)

Native Italian Ligurian / europoidal of Cispadano and Transpadano strain:


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## Picaro (Mar 13, 2017)

longly said:


> These pictures look like Roman art therefore if that is the case they are not examples of Pre Indo-European culture. The Latin people, which the Romans were a part, spoke an Indo-European language. They could have come from the Middle east, but that world be odd since all the other early Caucasian people of the Middle East were Semitics, or at least the ones that survived.



Read an article where genetic studies are claimed to have found a link for cattle breeds known to have been around since the Etruscans have been matched with breeds in Turkey, so they think Etruscans came fro somewhere on the coast there. The migrations of the 'Sea Peoples' would have allowed for all kinds of non-Semitic tribes and groups, so it isn't far fetched as a theory. I haven't gone back and looked to see if that has changed, it was a few years ago. The 'Sea Peoples' seem to have come from the Black Sea regions, which means anywhere in the north, northwest, or northeast,really.


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## whitehall (Mar 13, 2017)

Aside from the babe in the bikini I didn't see any evidence of blonde or red hair. The guy next to the mule had the same color hair as the mule so maybe we saw a depiction of the rare red headed mule. What's the point anyway? We know the Irish conquered the ancient world.


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## historycisalpin (Mar 13, 2017)

whitehall said:


> Aside from the babe in the bikini I didn't see any evidence of blonde or red hair. The guy next to the mule had the same color hair as the mule so maybe we saw a depiction of the rare red headed mule. What's the point anyway? We know the Irish conquered the ancient world.



If you do not see the reddish color of hair - blond or brown, it's not my fault.
The native europoidal the Ligurian strain it is a little bit throughout the Po Valley.

The natives europoidi the Po Valley (mainly ligurian ancestry), were first colonized Celtic (both linguistically and culturally and religiously), then Romanized and finally Germanized in the Middle Ages.

Bearing in mind that the Liguria and Piedmont, were also invaded by the Saracens.


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## yiostheoy (Mar 13, 2017)

Herodotus is the only ancient written source that we have, and his "science" is questionable since he relies on various oral traditions for his source-data.

He said the most ancient Europeans were reddish haired and were displaced by blondes from Persia.

That's what he says.

Our own archaeological data don't tell us anything about hair and eyes obviously.

The Germanics suddenly appear out of nowhere in Denmark.

The Slavs suddenly appear out of nowhere in Poland.

The Aryans suddenly appear out of nowhere in Afghanistan.

The Semitics suddenly appear out of nowhere in Syria-Iraq.

The Afro-Asiatics suddenly appear out of nowhere in Egypt.

We know nothing about the Australian aboriginals and the sub-Saharan aboriginals we know nothing about.


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## historycisalpin (Mar 13, 2017)

I recently read this book:

*Etruscan: an Anatolian language from archaic morphology and a Semitic lexicon*

During the first centuries of the second millennium BC, Assyrian merchants from Assur, on the upper reaches of the Tigris, organized a large-scale commercial exchange with Central Anatolia. They settled in different locations, Karum calls, an Akkadian word that usually means a dock or a port in Mesopotamia and in Anatolia indicates the district of Assyrian merchants. So, the Karum period - sviluppatosinell'antico Assyrian period - covers the time during which the Assyrians traded in Anatolia, from the mid-20th century to the late 18th century BC and corresponding, more or less, to the "Middle Bronze Age." In Anatolia, this period is characterized by an important phase of urbanization. At the beginning of the second millennium BC some plateau sites become very large. Creating Karums and wabartums (for smaller business sites) brought important economic and socio-political changes that influenced the local culture Anatolian material. New traditions flourished pottery and miniature art of cylinder seals; at the same time the production became standardized. The Karum period saw the development of several important fortified city on the main roads, showing a similar organization to that of Kanis: a huge palace and several temples built on top of a hill, with a lower terrace, where the area is occupied formed of wooden houses built and mattoni.Il center of the commercial network in Anatolia was based in Kanis (modern Kültepe) and covered most of central Anatolia. To the east of the plateau, the caravans arrived in Anatolia by Assyrian Mesopotamian plain plowing through the mountains of the Tauern chain through a limited number of steps. To the southeast of the Tauern, the river Euphrates was another natural boundary. The middle of the second millennium. C., much of the Anatolian plateau was covered by forests. In addition to agriculture and lands for grazing, the region also had numerous minerarie.L'Altopiano Anatolian resources can be divided into several different areas, each having its resources. The first and most densely populated it is the central part of the Plateau. The river Kizil Irmak, which crosses the plateau, acts as a natural border. The area located in the bend of the river is a rich and fertile land, with the North-metallic minerals. Here are the biggest settlements of the Bronze Age. To the west of the river, the density of sites decreases; the earth is dry, although the Tuz Golu provide important mineral resources. To the south-east of the river lies the Kayseri plain and Kanis (Kültepe) is one of the few of the Bronze Age sites in this area.I cuneiform texts found in Central Anatolia, produced by the Assyrian merchants, they are written in the ancient dialect Assyrian Akkadian.

The Karum period is well documented from 22,600 cuneiform tablets, most of them discovered in Kültepe. A large majority, 22,000 texts, was discovered in private homes of the period Karum level II. Some Anatolian living in Karum were involved in trade, but had no role in the administration of the commercial stations. These tablets are the private archives of the Assyrian merchants settled in Kanis and only few of them belonged to the Anatolian traders. The archives consist of private letters, legal documents and various types of contracts involving many Anatolici.Le tablets are mostly commercial, but several documents dealing with other issues: family contracts, tablets for school and religious issues. Most of the discovered files are dated from the first half of the nineteenth century B.C. .; the treaties concluded between the Assyrian institutions and Anatolian authorities regarding support and assistance to trade over long distances, as well as many letters return from within a vision of the Anatolian history. In fact, the political and administrative structure of the Anatolian kingdoms is only visible through their contacts with Assyrian merchants. At the beginning of the second millennium BC Anatolian plateau appears to be politically fragmented. There were several centers, some of them small fortified city-state, other state with a territory with a capital and several villages. we do not have more information about their hierarchies, but one can imagine that the Assyrians settled in the larger and economically stronger. Twenty cities saw the settling of a Karum during the period corresponding to level II and fifteen hosted a wabartum (for a total of 35 towns). Kanis must have been the first city with a settlement by the Assyrians and it certainly was their administrative center during the entire period. During the Karum II, the city was surrounded by a dozen villages. During the period Ib the kingdom was even larger, with at least twenty villages. The end of the Karum Ib could be accused to the struggles for power between different rival kingdoms. During the period Karum Ia there were still foreign travelers in Kanis attested by archaeological findings as "Syrian bottles" or a cylinder seal mesopotamico.I Anatolian palaces were economic centers whose wealth came from the production of their fields from their metallurgical resources. But they had also need of tin, fabrics and other raw materials brought from mercani Assiri.L'economia of Anatolian cities was mainly supported by agriculture and animal husbandry. Mining and metallurgy were the other main resource Anatolian plateau.

The production of metals was the primary attraction for the Assyrians, who wanted to bring back gold and silver at home. To prepare the bronze necessary in daily activities, the Anatolyan depended Assyrian caravans that took the tin from the north-east of Iran and Uzbekistan. Bronze was produced locally by Anatolian, to make tools, weapons and items for casa.Gli inhabitants Kanis could buy grain, slaves and animals in the local market while the pond and tissues, the palace and the elites traded with the Assyrian merchants ; trade was governed by commercial treaties with each Lord anatolico.Gli Assyrians had settled in Karums and wabartums who were legally independent of the local authorities. They were protected in both Karums that on roads used for businesses. The Lords Anatolian underwrote these treaties that guaranteed these relationships to benefit from trade, which was convenient to both parti.La Anatolian companies showed a significant difference between the palace and its Senior officers on the one hand, and the rest of the population on the other , mainly farmers and ranchers. These were poor people who belonged to the lower classa; they cultivated the fields just enough for subsistence of their family and often had to take the grain loan to survive. The land belonged predominantly to urban elites and the palace. Senior officers of the palace received some properties and sometimes entire villages by the king, and as a gift as a reward for services rendered. Many of the slaves were slaves to debt. They could be redeemed if the double or more, of the original debt was paid within a certain limited period of time ... ".

The Assyrians introduced writing to Anatolia and there is no evidence proving by Anatolyan attempting to adopt cuneiform writing to their language during the Karum period. The ancient Assyrian dialect was used in commercial treaties drawn up between the Assyrians and the local lords; it served and was also used as a written language in diplomacy between the king Anatolyan. The Treaties and the kings letters were certainly written by official scribes employed in the palaces. Some Anatolian, as Peruwa, whose archives were found, adopted the cuneiform writing and the ancient Assyrian dialect. In fact, the Assyrians themselves were using a simplified cuneiform writing with fewer than 200 signs. Many Assyrians were able to read and write, and this may have encouraged local people to learn to read and write. The ancient Assyrian dialect shows many borrowings from Hatti language spoken in the city at least until the beginning of the nineteenth century BC As mentioned, the relations between Anatolian and Assyrians were primarily commercial. The first generation of Assyrians who arrived in Anatolia was made up of men who left their families to Assyria; their involvement in the Anatolian society was purely economic. They were for a certain period of time in Anatolia and then returned to Assyria because they had to look after the family business. As the Assyrians established themselves in Kanis and other Karums and wabartums, relations between the two populations changed. During their long sojourn in Anatolia Assyrians often they contracted a second marriage, in most cases with Anatolian women. This was done respecting the two roles: they could not have two wives with the same status ( "main wife", "second wife") and they could not have both wives in the same place. The wives of the Anatolian Assyrians merchants resided in Kanis, pulling up their children, taking care of the house and doing agricultural work, while their husbands traveled and traded in Anatolia, and sometimes up to Assyria where their Assyrian wives waiting for them. When some Assyrians withdrew from work and went to Assyria, they left their wives and underwrote a divorce agreement; usually women came into possession of the house in which they lived, with the furniture, and was their recognized a certain amount of money. Usually they kept with their young children, the father paying for their maintenance, but he could also decide to bring someone of Anatolian children to Assur. Many who lived in the Anatolian Karum could improve their position in society through business and entertained with the Assyrians. Some were even creditors towards the Assyrians and integrated into enterprise Assyrian family, then choosing their spouses between the Assyrian community. With the increase of mixed marriages, the Karum became a "social colony", so that in many families, brothers and sisters were using both names Assyrians both Anatolyan. The nineteenth century BC It is well documented by cuneiform tablets, but although there are a number lower tablets for the eighteenth century, and we do not know how the old Assyrian trade came to an end. With the departure of the Assyrians writing he disappeared from Anatolia for centuries, to be reintroduced later in a different form from the Hittites ... ".

The Etruscan art style is clearly greek-oriental. It can be compared with western Anatolia examples, such as wall paintings or those of Gordion tomb of Karaburun in Lycia. The heads have rounded skulls, large foreheads, elongated almond eyes, arched openings that give the impression of a smiling attitude. Therefore remains really difficult, and in some cases impossible, to distinguish between certain works of Etruscan craftsmen and those of Western immigrants from Anatolia.

The cups for drinking terracotta reproducing animals and birds are the first examples of zoomorphic vessels made then with precious metals, called BIBRU, "rhyton" in Akkadian, which were used in religious ceremonies, according to Hittite sources. The drinking cups are then found in terracotta, while BIBRU remembered by Hittite texts are made of precious materials. These drinking cups clay are found reproduced in four main types of objects, because in an international center like Kanis was important to represent the rituals of Sumerian-Akkadian tradition.




source:
https://www.amazon.it/Etrusco-Anatolica-morfologia-Semitico-Compilationes-ebook/dp/B00RVYWWPO#reader_B00RVYWWPO


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## historycisalpin (Mar 13, 2017)

yiostheoy said:


> Herodotus is the only ancient written source that we have, and his "science" is questionable since he relies on various oral traditions for his source-data.
> 
> He said the most ancient Europeans were reddish haired and were displaced by blondes from Persia.
> 
> ...



Herodotus was a historian, bearing in mind that history is always taken with the tongs.
Then also it wrote the rule of Tacitus' De origine et situ Germanorum "- should be questioned, following your reasoning.


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## yiostheoy (Mar 13, 2017)

The Etruscans could have come from anywhere.

Assyria is the least likely place.

More likely is Crete.


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## historycisalpin (Mar 13, 2017)

yiostheoy said:


> The Etruscans could have come from anywhere.
> 
> Assyria is the least likely place.
> 
> More likely is Crete.



I cite reliable sources, of people who do it for work.


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## yiostheoy (Mar 13, 2017)

historycisalpin said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> > The Etruscans could have come from anywhere.
> ...


So their rank speculation is better than other speculation ???

Speculation is speculation.

it all stinks.


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## yiostheoy (Mar 13, 2017)

As far back as history and anthropology and archaeology can take us, it all tells us that there were vastly different peoples in different parts of the globe.

One or two things are easy to conclude though.

1 - they did not all come out of a big boat.

2 - they did not all come out of Africa.

We just don't know where they came from.

They could just as easily come out of ancient space ships.


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## historycisalpin (Mar 13, 2017)

yiostheoy said:


> As far back as history and anthropology and archaeology can take us, it all tells us that there were vastly different peoples in different parts of the globe.
> 
> One or two things are easy to conclude though.
> 
> ...



And 'established that the Etruscans were a Levantine race, theories about the Anunnaki do it in another thread )







Computers in ancient Greece?

False history?

False recently introduced as a historian?

Slipcase that looks like a computer?


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## historycisalpin (Mar 14, 2017)

I correct: the Etruscans were Anatolian Levantine race.


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## yiostheoy (Mar 14, 2017)

historycisalpin said:


> I correct: the Etruscans were Anatolian Levantine race.


Probably the same as the ancient Cretans too.


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## ThirdTerm (Mar 14, 2017)

> The northern Germany and Scandinavia were themselves colonized later by Central European groups.
> It was during this process that for the first time the physical traits of blond hair and blue eyes coincided with those of the Indo-European language.
> The Indo-European (Aryan) ancestral so they were not blond. The blondness was a physical trait of pre-Indo-European peoples of northern Europe, whose indo was partial, since about population groups from which descend the Germans and Celts, but not the ancestors of the Finns, who never came to adopt an Indo-European Language.



European hunter-gatherers in Scandinavia were 100% blonde and blue-eyed, according to the recent genetic study below. Indo-Europeans from  the Pontic-Caspian steppe had brown eyes and brown hair and the two population groups mixed up around 5,000 years ago. 95% of European hunter-gatherers were lactose intolerant before the arrival of the steppe herders, who carried a genetic mutation that allowed adults to tolerate drinking cow’s milk.





Figure 4: Allele frequencies for putatively positively selected SNPs.



> The Bronze Age of Eurasia (around 3000–1000 BC) was a period of major cultural changes. However, there is debate about whether these changes resulted from the circulation of ideas or from human migrations, potentially also facilitating the spread of languages and certain phenotypic traits. We investigated this by using new, improved methods to sequence low-coverage genomes from 101 ancient humans from across Eurasia. We show that the Bronze Age was a highly dynamic period involving large-scale population migrations and replacements, responsible for shaping major parts of present-day demographic structure in both Europe and Asia. Our findings are consistent with the hypothesized spread of Indo-European languages during the Early Bronze Age. We also demonstrate that light skin pigmentation in Europeans was already present at high frequency in the Bronze Age, but not lactose tolerance, indicating a more recent onset of positive selection on lactose tolerance than previously thought.
> http://www.nature.com/nature/journa...2&spJobID=701294608&spReportId=NzAxMjk0NjA4S0


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## anotherlife (Mar 14, 2017)

ThirdTerm said:


> > The northern Germany and Scandinavia were themselves colonized later by Central European groups.
> > It was during this process that for the first time the physical traits of blond hair and blue eyes coincided with those of the Indo-European language.
> > The Indo-European (Aryan) ancestral so they were not blond. The blondness was a physical trait of pre-Indo-European peoples of northern Europe, whose indo was partial, since about population groups from which descend the Germans and Celts, but not the ancestors of the Finns, who never came to adopt an Indo-European Language.
> 
> ...



Blond genes are recessive genes, so only effect if the Indo Europeans also have the blond gene as recessive.  Yes the Indo European bullies have been crowding us out for millennia, but we turned them normal a little by blonding them back.  Now if only they would stop speaking their demented Slavonic and Latin latnguages, and learn a proper language like szekler, Finnish, Hungarian, Sami/Lapp, or Gaelic.


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## historycisalpin (Mar 16, 2017)

I would replace the erroneous term "Indo-European" - the correct term of Indo-Mesopotamian - Mesosemitic - Afrosemitic - Meso-Anatolian and Asian-Levantine.


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## yiostheoy (Mar 16, 2017)

historycisalpin said:


> I would replace the erroneous term "Indo-European" - the correct term of Indo-Mesopotamian - Mesosemitic - Afrosemitic - Meso-Anatolian and Asian-Levantine.


The correct term is "Aryan" as Herodotus calls them.


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## historycisalpin (Mar 16, 2017)

yiostheoy said:


> historycisalpin said:
> 
> 
> > I would replace the erroneous term "Indo-European" - the correct term of Indo-Mesopotamian - Mesosemitic - Afrosemitic - Meso-Anatolian and Asian-Levantine.
> ...



Herodotus was aware of the fact that the Aryans (the real ones), much more than that belonged to the Middle East to Europe.

We certainly can not speak of "Aryans" europoidal race - in sauce Nazi-Fascism, since their mother land is located between Afghanistan and Pakistan.


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## yiostheoy (Mar 16, 2017)

historycisalpin said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> > historycisalpin said:
> ...


Well I don't know if you know or not but Herodotus calls a certain group "Germanians" and labels them "Aryans".

And then Caesar calls the tribes north of Rome "Germanians" too.

So if you can put 1 and 1 together that is probably where Adolf and his reichsmarschalls got it from.


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## Unkotare (Mar 16, 2017)

Ok, "Indo-European" is a language family, not a 'race.'


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## Meathead (Mar 16, 2017)

historycisalpin said:


>


None of those is pre-history. just stupid.


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## historycisalpin (Mar 16, 2017)

yiostheoy said:


> historycisalpin said:
> 
> 
> > yiostheoy said:
> ...



The swastika is a symbol of Indo Mesopotamian origin (non-European), and the Aryans lived in Afghanistan and were the ones to bring down the Indus Valley civilization.

Hitler did just anybody term Indo Mesopotamian origin, propagating the Aryan paternity to the German people, a false paternity.

They are more "Aryan" race of the oriental Levantine populations of southern Italy, with respect to the Germanic peoples.


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## historycisalpin (Mar 16, 2017)

Unkotare said:


> Ok, "Indo-European" is a language family, not a 'race.'



It's not even a language, since the most ancient languages are those of afrosemitic strain, as well as the most ancient alphabets.

Euro-Asian languages were strongly influenced by those of the strain afrosemitic.

For example:

The origin of the runes is somehow linked to that alphabet as we know it, which is a derivation from the Phoenician alphabet borrowed by the Greeks and later adapted by other peoples (Romans, Etruscans, Venetian and Rhaetian people) to their languages, but still retains roughly the Semitic order, where the names originally letters represent the names of the respective phonemes, of which represent in graphic terms the name, according to a roughly principle acrophonic.


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## historycisalpin (Mar 16, 2017)

Fresco in Herculaneum:


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## historycisalpin (Mar 16, 2017)




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