# Obscene Apologies



## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

Take a gander at Michael Walsh's response to the savages who killed the UN workers, and see if you agree with him:

1.  Noel Coward penned a little ditty called "Don't Let's Be Beastly to the Germans." 
It was, he explained, "a satire directed against a small minority of excessive humanitarians, who, in my opinion, were taking a rather too tolerant view of our enemies." 

2. Over in Afghanistan, a mob of howling savages, whipped up by our "ally," kleptocratic President Hamid Karzai, has been rioting for nearly a week over the burning of a Koran by an obscure pastor in Florida. More than 20 have died, including two US soldiers...

3. In a series of disgraceful statements, Sens. Harry Reid and Lindsey Graham, along with Gen. David Petraeus, have laid the blame for the unrest where it doesn't belong: at the feet of the US Constitution. 

4. This is jaw-dropping in its ignorance and stupidity. Graham is arguing against freedom of speech -- why else should an American citizen exercising his First Amendment rights, however offensive to some, be "held accountable" for the reactions of superstitious goatherds half a world away?

5. But the prize for disappointment goes to Petraeus and NATO Ambassador Mark Sedwill, whose statement read in part: "In view of the events of recent days, we feel it is important . . . to reiterate our condemnation of any disrespect to the Holy Koran and the Muslim faith. We condemn, in particular, the action of an individual in the United States who recently burned the Holy Koran. 

"We further hope the Afghan people understand that the actions of a small number of individuals, who have been extremely disrespectful to the Holy Koran, are not representative of any of the countries of the international community who are in Afghanistan to help the Afghan people." 

6. ...we are instead apologizing to the very people who are killing American soldiers, and treating their holy book better than we do any other.

7. World War II ended with the destruction of German cities, the death of Hitler, the hanging of the top surviving Nazis at Nuremberg. In Japan, Gen. Douglas MacArthur forced Emperor Hirohito to publicly renounce the myth of his own divinity and the Japanese doctrine of racial superiority. 

But don't let's be beastly to the Islamists. After all, restricting the rights of our own citizens in order to appease people still living in the 7th century isn't much of a price to pay for peace, is it? 

Let's be meek to them 

And turn the other cheek to them 

And try to bring out their latent sense of fun. 

Let's give them full air parity 

And treat the rats with charity, 

But don't let's be beastly to the Hun. 

Politicians appease Islamists--Michael A. Walsh - NYPOST.com


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

This is disgusting, the blame for these deaths lay at the feet of the stupid Afghan mob who killed them, just because an idiot burned a Quran doesnt give anyone an excuse to kill.


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## Grace (Apr 5, 2011)

I think he is right on the mark. The ONLY bummer about the whole thing is the threat to soldiers and innocent civilians. But....and I say this reluctantly...isnt that what terrorism is? Fear to upset exremist wackos  so nobody gets killed over their insanity?


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## rikules (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> Take a gander at Michael Walsh's response to the savages who killed the UN workers, and see if you agree with him:
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> 1.  Noel Coward penned a little ditty called "Don't Let's Be Beastly to the Germans."
> It was, he explained, "a satire directed against a small minority of excessive humanitarians, who, in my opinion, were taking a rather too tolerant view of our enemies."
> ...



well, of course, we should have no respect at all for the koran, a book we should all be burning, or for muslims, all of whom are guilty by association!

but remember, only a braindead liberal would be stupid enough to burn our precious bible and blame ALL christians for the acts of a few extremist christians


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## California Girl (Apr 5, 2011)

The ignorant asshole who burned a holy book is publicity seeking attention whore. You burn a book, that is your right. I also have the right to call you an ignorant attention seeking publicity whore for doing so. 

I would prefer Petraeus focus on his job, and not on political issues... sadly, soldiers get dragged into politics.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

If wer living in a time where we are scared to offend radical Muslims, we might as well bring the troops home because they already won.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

California Girl said:


> The ignorant asshole who burned a holy book is publicity seeking attention whore. You burn a book, that is your right. I also have the right to call you an ignorant attention seeking publicity whore for doing so.
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> I would prefer Petraeus focus on his job, and not on political issues... sadly, soldiers get dragged into politics.



When you break through to the rank of Brig. General and above, politics become part of your job.


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## Grace (Apr 5, 2011)

The sickening part, High_Gravity is they were looking for AMERICANS...couldnt find any....so decided those people would have to make do.


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## Big Black Dog (Apr 5, 2011)

In this country it is acceptable to burn the flag but not acceptable to burn a copy of the Koran...  I find this amazing.  No, I find it pretty stupid.


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## Grace (Apr 5, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> If wer living in a time where we are scared to offend radical Muslims, we might as well bring the troops home because they already won.




THANK YOU. Thats what Ive been saying since this subject came up. They are winning just by dividing _us_.  "Attact from within" sorta thing.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> The sickening part, High_Gravity is they were looking for AMERICANS...couldnt find any....so decided those people would have to make do.



Actually Imeuru, there are plenty of American bases in Afghanistan, especially in the bigger cities. They targeted the UN on purpose because they know the UN can't shoot back, even when attacked. I was trained on force protection when I was in the Military and thankfully I never had to use it but I can tell you this, if these protestors tried this with a US or NATO base they would have got lit the fuck up, protestors have tried many times to sieze US Bases in Iraq and Afghanistan and they come up short everytime. They went to the UN because they know the UN are a bunch of paper tiger pussies.


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## zzzz (Apr 5, 2011)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

If we can allow US citizens to burn and disrespect our own flag and all it stands for then where the hell is this coming from? Appeasement led to WWII. Sometimes it is necessary to stand on principle and this is one time we must stand for free speech and damn the consequences!


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

IMEURU said:


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First its "oh don't burn a Quran we don't make the Muslims angry", than it will be "oh maybe we should stop drinking beer, it makes the Muslims angry", than it will be "you know, our women dress too provactively and it offends the Muslims, lets throw them in Burqas" and then before you know it, BOOM, Shariah Law.


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## Grace (Apr 5, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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Sharia Law over my dead body. Ill go down shootin' and wont mind a bit.
But I fear youre right. We are already heading in that direction.


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## California Girl (Apr 5, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> California Girl said:
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> > The ignorant asshole who burned a holy book is publicity seeking attention whore. You burn a book, that is your right. I also have the right to call you an ignorant attention seeking publicity whore for doing so.
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I know.... but it should be. The 'art of war' should not be political. 

We have to accept... although we often forget... that our way of life is not the way of life of others in other countries. What we define as freedom of speech (although I'm not quite convinced that burning anything is 'speech') is not acceptable to other people. We do not live in a vacuum, we live in a world where actions have consequences. 

To me... burning a book... any book is offensive. Burning a book that other people consider to be holy is not just offensive, it is provocative. I'm not condoning the slaughter of UN workers, but I sure as hell am not gonna defend the fucking little bastard who burned a Koran.


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## Ernie S. (Apr 5, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> I think he is right on the mark. The ONLY bummer about the whole thing is the threat to soldiers and innocent civilians. But....and I say this reluctantly...isnt that what terrorism is? Fear to upset exremist wackos  so nobody gets killed over their insanity?



In all fairness to the General, his first responsibility is to keep his men alive. If a bit of public diplomacy achieves that goal, then I'm all for it as long as he has people hunting down and killing the bastards responsible for killing  these 20 people.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

California Girl said:


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The guy who burned the Quran was a fucking mongrel retard, I don't think anyone is defending him specifically but there is no excuse to form a mob and go on a killing rage because someone burned a book thousands of miles away, this is ridiculous, the guy who burned it was retarded but the blame for the deaths of these people falls on the feet of the Afghans who did it.


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## Grace (Apr 5, 2011)

Maybe we should "borrow" a passage in the quran that says lying is ok to protect oneself from an enemy.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

California Girl said:


> The ignorant asshole who burned a holy book is publicity seeking attention whore. You burn a book, that is your right. I also have the right to call you an ignorant attention seeking publicity whore for doing so.
> 
> I would prefer Petraeus focus on his job, and not on political issues... sadly, soldiers get dragged into politics.



Grav is 100% in post #7...

...all high level officers have advance degrees, and got them at universities.
How could we not expect many to be influenced as so many others are in our colleges and univesities.


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## Immanuel (Apr 5, 2011)

California Girl said:


> The ignorant asshole who burned a holy book is publicity seeking attention whore. You burn a book, that is your right. I also have the right to call you an ignorant attention seeking publicity whore for doing so.
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> I would prefer Petraeus focus on his job, and not on political issues... sadly, soldiers get dragged into politics.



I, too, would prefer that Petraeus focus on his job, but my thought when I read that information about him in the OP was that that was exactly what he was doing.  One part of his job is to defend the lives of every American soldier.  My feelings are that this is what he was trying to accomplish by making those statements.

I don't believe he will accomplish a damned thing by appeasing them, but I think that was what he was trying to do.

Edit: acknowledgments to Ernie S. for basically stating this first.

Immie


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> California Girl said:
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> > The ignorant asshole who burned a holy book is publicity seeking attention whore. You burn a book, that is your right. I also have the right to call you an ignorant attention seeking publicity whore for doing so.
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When you get the rank of General your practically a politician anways, you work hand in hand with the white house on all kinds of issues like policy, wars, deployments etc etc


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## Immanuel (Apr 5, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> The sickening part, High_Gravity is they were looking for AMERICANS...couldnt find any....so decided those people would have to make do.



Either that or they assumed all westerners were Americans and they were killing Americans.

Immie


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## California Girl (Apr 5, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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I agree... but... that is an American view. As I said, we do not live in a order ruled by American law or our Constitution. We often overlook that. Our Constitution does not apply anywhere but the US. So, it is not for us to tell other people how to react. We either stop allowing idiots to incite people in other countries to violence or we accept the consequences.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

Immanuel said:


> California Girl said:
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Petreaus is doing damage control right now, hes got to think about his troops on the ground. 2 US Troops were already killed because of all this.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> IMEURU said:
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I heard that the Gurkas hired as body guards were unarmed.....

brilliant. Just brilliant.


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## Grace (Apr 5, 2011)

What horrors are being planned by those people thousands of miles away if that fucktard preacher decides to go ahead with the Judging The Koran deal hes blathering about? The better question is...will Fucktard be silenced, stripped of his rights with freedom of speech, so wackos dont get upset....while the Westboro Baptist church marches by on their way to another soldiers funeral that gets to keep THEIR rights to do as they wish?

What a warped country we have become.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

California Girl said:


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Your right about that, freedom of speech and all these things DEFINENTLY do not apply in Afghanistan.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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I heard the pussies were lightly armed but still did not fire even when the mob turned violent on them.


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## xotoxi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> Take a gander at Michael Walsh's response to the savages who killed the UN workers, and see if you agree with him:
> 
> 1.  Noel Coward penned a little ditty called "Don't Let's Be Beastly to the Germans."
> It was, he explained, "a satire directed against a small minority of excessive humanitarians, who, in my opinion, were taking a rather too tolerant view of our enemies."
> ...



Excellent cut and paste job!!!


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> What horrors are being planned by those people thousands of miles away if that fucktard preacher decides to go ahead with the Judging The Koran deal hes blathering about? The better question is...will Fucktard be silenced, stripped of his rights with freedom of speech, so wackos dont get upset....while the Westboro Baptist church marches by on their way to another soldiers funeral that gets to keep THEIR rights to do as they wish?
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> What a warped country we have become.



You know what? if I were in with the radical crowd, I would encourage Quran burnings in the West, that way it riles the Muslims up some more and they get more support for their base, think about it, when that guy burned in the Quran who really gained anything from it, besides the jihadi idiots who will use it as propoganda to recruit?


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## Ernie S. (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> California Girl said:
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> > The ignorant asshole who burned a holy book is publicity seeking attention whore. You burn a book, that is your right. I also have the right to call you an ignorant attention seeking publicity whore for doing so.
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Don't be so sure the General actually buys into what he said. He has to play diplomat to the Afghanis and subordinate to the C in C.
His job is to protect his troops and obey his ass hole boss.


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## Immanuel (Apr 5, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> What horrors are being planned by those people thousands of miles away if that fucktard preacher decides to go ahead with the Judging The Koran deal hes blathering about? The better question is...will Fucktard be silenced, stripped of his rights with freedom of speech, so wackos dont get upset....while the Westboro Baptist church marches by on their way to another soldiers funeral that gets to keep THEIR rights to do as they wish?
> 
> What a warped country we have become.



Would it be a violation of his right to free speech if no one covered his "trial" at all, not the media or anyone else?  If he made a video of it and placed it on Youtuve and Youtube removed it?

I don't think that is a violation of his freedom of speech.  He can say what he wants, but if no one is listening, that is his tough luck.

Immie


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


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Now, sit down when you hear this, Ernie....

this general is a liberal.

It's been reported in the news that he won't allow Fox News on in HQ.


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## Grace (Apr 5, 2011)

Good luck stopping the media. They live for this shit.
Youtube? They will not allow it. Cant burn their fucking book and put it there but you can burn the bible.


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## Grace (Apr 5, 2011)

> It's been reported in the news that he won't allow Fox News on in HQ.



I dont know what I am, but I wouldnt let them in either.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


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The General definently has to play ball with the Afghans, he is in their country and he has to appease them, especially with how tense the situation is. 2 US Troops have already been killed because of this.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

xotoxi said:


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Try reading.


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## Ernie S. (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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Like I said, part of his job is to obey his ass hole boss.


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## Immanuel (Apr 5, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> Good luck stopping the media. They live for this shit.
> Youtube? They will not allow it. Cant burn their fucking book and put it there but you can burn the bible.



Well, I didn't say we could pull it off.  I only asked the question.

You have to know that NPR and MSNBC will cover it and make it their lead story for days, but then... we could all hope that even the media would ostracize him, can't we?

Immie


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

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You have to listen to the Commander in Chief without question if you are a General, the General that questioned Rumsfeld about the Iraq invasion and said we need 250,000 troops was served with retirement orders the next day!


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## Ernie S. (Apr 5, 2011)

It was Petraeus' predecessor, Gen. Stanley McChrystal who banned FOX from his HQ


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> It was Petraeus' predecessor, Gen. Stanley McChrystal who banned FOX from his HQ



Wasn't McCrystal sacked for talking shit about Obama?


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## xotoxi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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I read both your post and the original article.

Basically no difference.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


> It was Petraeus' predecessor, Gen. Stanley McChrystal who banned FOX from his HQ



Oops!  You're right!


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

xotoxi said:


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Correct...what's your point?


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## xotoxi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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I was just congratulating you on successfully cutting and pasting.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

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Now, toxic, if I get your drift, you're disagreeing with my style of posting....

I want you to watch, breathlessly, until I decide on  my next OP...

...it will reveal exactly how much I allow others to decide on my posting-style.


But, you're a smart guy...I bet you know already.


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## Ernie S. (Apr 5, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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More about Biden, but obama was not pleased with his Rolling Stone interview.


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> More than 20 have died, including two US soldiers...


Link?


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## xotoxi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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I'm not disagreeing with anything.  You can do whatever you want.

I'm just saying that I open your threads expecting to find original material...but I never do.


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## Ernie S. (Apr 5, 2011)

Ravi said:


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link I count 21.


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

Ernie S. said:


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It doesn't sound, from your link, that Americans were killed by the people outraged over the book burning.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

Ravi said:


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"An Afghan policeman shot and killed two American soldiers Monday in northern Afghanistan, the province's deputy governor said, and protests flared for a fourth straight day in several Afghan cities and towns over an American pastor's burning of the Koran.

For the first day since lethal riots erupted Friday, resulting in the deaths of seven foreign U.N. workers in the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif, no fatalities were reported Monday in the protests, which have taken 22 lives."


Afghanistan: 2 U.S. soldiers killed by Afghan policeman - latimes.com



Not only was I 100% correct, but now I'm going to have to contend with toxic carping about this being a 'cut and paste'!


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

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It also sounds like the Taliban are infiltrating the demonstrations and are the ones responsible for the killings. That is a shame...they are the enemy, and this stupid pastor just gave them the ammo they wanted to gain back their previous control over Afghanistan.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

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Yup, those reporters will lead a General to his death bed, got to be careful what say to those guys.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

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They already controlled most of it, with or without the pastor.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

xotoxi said:


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The material is always original...that's why you open it.

I often provide it in the words of those I agree with. (sorry to end the sentence 
with a preposition.)

Surely, you see that, Shirley.


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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Even though it is reported in the same article it isn't clear that the Americans were killed because of the book burning. If they were, the pastor should rot in hell.


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

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Incorrect.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

Ravi said:


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How so? so your saying this book burning turned the tide for the Taliban?


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

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Is it possible that you don't see that the logic you are using would indict the mini-skirt wearer to hell with the rapist?


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## Immanuel (Apr 5, 2011)

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To me, it sounds as if this "policeman" was a sympathizer with the rioters and the Taliban and he took the opportunity to shoot and kill the two soldiers.

Immie


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## Mr Liberty (Apr 5, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> The sickening part, High_Gravity is they were looking for AMERICANS...couldnt find any....so decided those people would have to make do.



I guess any non Muslim will do.


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## xotoxi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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But the material is not yours.

And the fact that the material written by others matches with what you agree, just means that you are regurgitating talking points.

Not that there is anything wrong with that...


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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I'm saying the Taliban doesn't control most of Afghanistan, as you asserted. It is being used, from the reports, by the Taliban as propaganda to try to turn support back to them.


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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No it wouldn't, unless you are making the claim that men are at war with women.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 5, 2011)

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They may not have a direct control of most of the country but they do control large parts of the country and fighting for more, we dont have enough troops on the ground to be everywhere they are, basically.


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## iamwhatiseem (Apr 5, 2011)

Dream on...but wouldn't it be awesome if the Prez would say something to the effect...

  "While it is regrettable that there are people among us that have no respect for other people's beliefs and what they hold dear to them...it is a far greater concern that in retaliation others just arbitrarily murder other people who happen to be from the same country or same race who have absolutely nothing...let me repeat...nothing...to do with what happened in the _first_ place.
  I will go on to say that the recent events in Afghanistan is suggestive of a far greater problem than one nut burning a holy book. A whole group of people murdering other people that not only goes unpunished by their government - but in fact encouraged by that government is something we must address"

End of dream. Ronald Reagan is past.


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

Immanuel said:


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That could be true but I am not seeing anything definite to confirm that. Yet.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

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Obfuscating?

The claim that I am making is the confluence of 

a) any thinking person stating that the pastor burning the koran made the killers do what they did, and 

b) any thinking person stating that a young lady wearing a mini-skirt made a rapist perform as he did.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

xotoxi said:


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The absurdity of your position that anyone who gives an opinion other than one they thought of in perfect isolation is- to use your terminology, "regurgitating talking points"
would obviatge approximately 100% of the items on the message board.

No, I see it as tortuous logic on your part, an attempt to argue with an OP without actually producing a cogent argument.

Could it be the difference in our political perspectives has more to do with your thesis than any kind of style critique?

I think so.


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## Immanuel (Apr 5, 2011)

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Isn't it the other way around, women are at war with men?

I think us guys would prefer peace but then every time we turn around a woman is blaming us for everything from the toast burning to the asteroid that we all know is headed our way and going to put us all out like the one that destroyed the dinosaurs.

Immie


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

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I don't think it is the same thing at all. I don't think men rape women because women wear mini skirts. But I do think some people will become enraged at a slight to their religion....and the pastor knows this and did it anyway.


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## Kalam (Apr 5, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> The sickening part, High_Gravity is they were looking for AMERICANS...couldnt find any....so decided those people would have to make do.



Barbaric indeed. Now they're no better than those who decided to make due with Iraqis and Afghans after their main man dropped off the radar.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

Ravi said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



I think I'll leave it to the reader to consider our two posts on this matter.


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


Also, PC, the pastor isn't the victim in this scenario. So your analogy is doubly stupid. The victims are basically innocent people that were trying to do their jobs.

If the pastor wasn't such an evil fuck they'd be having lunch right about now instead of funeral services.


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## xotoxi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



That is not my point at all.  Of course each and every one of us has opinions that align with those opinions that have been written by others.

But, you are the _only _person who _exclusively _starts posts by cutting and pasting the words of others.  

Again, I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with it...in fact, I appreciate that you stick around in your thread to actually discuss the quoted article, rather than just hit and run.  

I'm just pointing out that it is what you do.


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## xotoxi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> No, I see it as tortuous logic on your part, an attempt to argue with an OP without actually producing a cogent argument.



And I'm not arguing with the OP at all.  I don't have much of an opinion on the matter except that the actions of all people on both sides of the issue are childish and reactionary and should all be killed.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

Ravi said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



Did you notice how I avoid terms like 'doubly stupid' in my posts?

You might take a lesson from that.


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...


I notice how quickly you back away from your silly assertions and change the subject.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

Ravi said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



I didn't 'back away,' I merely pointed out how obtuse you are, and, in another post, how rude.

I'm sure I'm not the first to do so.


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## Wry Catcher (Apr 5, 2011)

Big Black Dog said:


> In this country it is acceptable to burn the flag but not acceptable to burn a copy of the Koran...  I find this amazing.  No, I find it pretty stupid.



It's not acceptable to do either, it is legal to do both.  It's unfortunate clerics and pastors, priests and rabbis, et al men of religion are not held to a higher standard.  Terry Jones is no pastor, he's an asshole.


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## rightwinger (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> Take a gander at Michael Walsh's response to the savages who killed the UN workers, and see if you agree with him:
> 
> 1.  Noel Coward penned a little ditty called "Don't Let's Be Beastly to the Germans."
> It was, he explained, "a satire directed against a small minority of excessive humanitarians, who, in my opinion, were taking a rather too tolerant view of our enemies."
> ...



I'm sorry


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Take a gander at Michael Walsh's response to the savages who killed the UN workers, and see if you agree with him:
> ...



OMG....you're still apologizing for the Dresden fire bombing???


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
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You likened the pastor to a woman wearing a mini-skirt, saying blaming the pastor for his actions was like blaming a rape victim. The pastor isn't the victim. Since I pointed that out you have done nothing but flounce around in a snit.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

Ravi said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



The 'you have done nothing but flounce around in a snit' is nothing but a self-serving post-modernist redefinition of reality.

I've been laughing at you.

You made yourself sound silly by pretending that my analogy wasn't apt and to the point.
You claim that burning the koran forced the beasts to kill innocent folks.

My analogy is focused on the forcing of another to preform an antisocial act without having any control or even proximity to said perp.

My analysis of your behavior is that, rather than admit that you see the sense of the analogy, you'd rather pretend and imagine all sorts of things.

I've tried to save you the embarrassment, but you'd rather carry on with your liberal trope, i.e., the evil Americans, or evil religious folk, or evil anyone-but-the-real-evil-one is the guilty one....

...be my guest, but I'm perfectly satisfied to let readers of the thread judge both of our posts.

Your serve.


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> You claim that burning the koran forced the beasts to kill innocent folks.


I said no such thing.


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## Ravi (Apr 5, 2011)

Nor do I agree with your claim that miniskirts are to blame for rape.


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## Foxfyre (Apr 5, 2011)

In my opinion, an intelligent, civilized, and decent people respects the harmless sensibilities of ALL people. 

So you don't burn flags that symbolize patriotism or allegiance or patriotism to your fellow Earth beings.

You don't burn books just because you don't like their content.

You don't destroy or deface art just because you don't share its message.

You don't burn churches or synagogue or mosques or temples because you don't share the relgiion.

Such things harm us not in the the least and those who enjoy them and can do so harmlessly to others should be left in peace.

But when some idiot DOES use violent demonstration to make a point--and burning a Qu'ran would certain quality, we CAN condemn the act as stupid, offensive, and insulting.

We can condemn the act WITHOUT approving hunting down somebody, anybody, to punish as retaliation for the offense.

The act of provocatively burning a Qu/ran should be condemned for the stupid act is is.

And the deliberate and premeditated murder of innocents can NEVER be defended nor tolerated in an intelligent, civilized, and decent world.


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## PoliticalChic (Apr 5, 2011)

Ravi said:


> Nor do I agree with your claim that miniskirts are to blame for rape.



Now, you know that I never said that.

The fact that you have to fabricate things such as the above simply lends credence to my analysis, that you have a deathly fear of being found totally incorrect.

Your response seems so over the top in terms of the discussion that I may not have, in fact, gone far enough in my analysis.

Now, I begin to think that you see this question, i.e., the degree of culpabiliy of the pastor, as a proxy for the rectitude of liberal thinking, such that it is.

Perhaps this is the correct view: you are just as askew in your premise about the pastor, as you are in your political philosophy, and you have an inordinate fear that exposure in the one area will expose all.

You may, indeed, be in deep, deep trouble (insert Toccata and fugue in D minor)!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o]YouTube - Bach, Toccata and Fugue in D minor, organ[/ame]


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## xotoxi (Apr 5, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> In my opinion, an intelligent, civilized, and decent people respects the harmless sensibilities of ALL people.
> 
> So you don't burn flags that symbolize patriotism or allegiance or patriotism to your fellow Earth beings.
> 
> ...



I agree with you 110.76%


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## LibocalypseNow (Apr 7, 2011)

Defending American Rights and our Constitution is just so passe for our dimwitted Politicians at this point. These Afghans who committed these atrocities should be prosecuted for Crimes against Humanity. There are no justifications for massacring innocent people. This kind of stuff only convinces more people that this Pastor might just be right about Islam. And shame on our cowardly Politicians. They are completely useless.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 7, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> Defending American Rights and our Constitution is just so passe for our dimwitted Politicians at this point. These Afghans who committed these atrocities should be prosecuted for Crimes against Humanity. There are no justifications for massacring innocent people. This kind of stuff only convinces more people that this Pastor might just be right about Islam. And shame on our cowardly Politicians. They are completely useless.



You know, during all of this I see alot of people blaming the pastor for burning the Quran, but not alot of blame on the retarded Afghan mob that performed this brutality. I actually kind of blame the UN for letting their people be unprotected and bind them with unrealistic rules not to fire onto the mob, maybe if these guys defended themselves they would still be alive.


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## LibocalypseNow (Apr 7, 2011)

Maybe this Pastor is right about Islam? More people are beginning to ask this question after seeing this insane Afghan Muslim massacre. Hmm?


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## High_Gravity (Apr 7, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> Maybe this Pastor is right about Islam? More people are beginning to ask this question after seeing this insane Afghan Muslim massacre. Hmm?



I think the Pastor is a retard but I don't blame him for the deaths of those people, I don't care if he burned 1000 Qurans, thats no excuse to kill a human being.


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## Foxfyre (Apr 7, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > Defending American Rights and our Constitution is just so passe for our dimwitted Politicians at this point. These Afghans who committed these atrocities should be prosecuted for Crimes against Humanity. There are no justifications for massacring innocent people. This kind of stuff only convinces more people that this Pastor might just be right about Islam. And shame on our cowardly Politicians. They are completely useless.
> ...



That is one of the most frustrating phenomenons in this current age of politics.  It has become fashionable to blame the victim of the crime, IF that victim is somebody who is out of favor or politically incorrect, or some other 'unacceptable' catalyst rather than accuse and condemn those who commit the crime.

Even our President, members of his staff, and the media were quick to jump on Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, the Tea Partiers, etc. etc. etc. for the Arizona shooting rather than focus on the shooter himself. 

To many Israel is never the victim but always the villain in the Palestinian conflict.

The crimes of wall street, Fannie, Freddie, et al are not blamed on those who committed the crime or those who encouraged them to do so, but rather some previous deregulation is at fault.

Don't blame Muslim thugs and terrorists for murderous acts.  Blame Bush and Reagan for pissing them off.

Don't blame the murder of innocents on some hate filled nut.  Blame the guy who mad him mad.

It's absolutely maddening if you think on it too much.


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## Grace (Apr 7, 2011)

Very overwhelming. So Ill just say this all sucks and be done with it.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 7, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > LibocalypseNow said:
> ...



It is, the sad thing this retarded Afghan mob will more than likely never see justice for this crime even though it is on video for the whole world to see.


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## Ravi (Apr 7, 2011)

The pastor is now the victim? Give me a break.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 7, 2011)

Ravi said:


> The pastor is now the victim? Give me a break.



No the Afghan mob are the victims.


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## WillowTree (Apr 7, 2011)

IMEURU said:


> The sickening part, High_Gravity is they were looking for AMERICANS...couldnt find any....so decided those people would have to make do.



Yep! Which tells me they are rabid animals with a lust to kill.


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## Ravi (Apr 7, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > The pastor is now the victim? Give me a break.
> ...


No, the people that got killed are the victims. Pretending that pastor Jones is the victim, as Foxfire and before her PC did, is wrong.

In fact it is probably the most revolting thing I've ever read here.


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## Foxfyre (Apr 7, 2011)

Ravi said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...



I did not state, suggest, imply, or pretend that pastor Jones was a victim.  I have expressly condemned the act of buring the Qu'ran if you want to be honest about what has been said on this thread.

My comments you apparently are referring to were prompted by H.G.'s comment that I quoted--he wasn't painting Jones as a 'victim' either.  If you will read my post more carefully and without prejudice, you will see that I am commenting on victims AND the scapegoats that are sometimes blamed for these things when it is politically incorrect to blame the person who actually does the crime.


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## Ravi (Apr 8, 2011)

I was commenting on this:



> That is one of the most frustrating phenomenons in this current age of  politics.  It has become fashionable to blame the victim of the crime,  IF that victim is somebody who is out of favor or politically incorrect,  or some other 'unacceptable' catalyst rather than accuse and condemn  those who commit the crime.



The only victim in this case you could possibly be talking about is Jones and he is NOT a victim.


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## LibocalypseNow (Apr 8, 2011)

I'm sure if this Pastor had burned a Bible instead,the usual suspects would be lining up to defend his right to do so. Lots of dishonesty,cowardice,and hypocrisy on this one. There is still no justification for going on a rampage and massacring innocent people. Period,end of story.


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## Foxfyre (Apr 8, 2011)

Ravi said:


> I was commenting on this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well you're wrong because I did not have the pastor in mind when I typed that sentence.  Hate to disappoint your little diatribe against me, but unless I NAMED or specified the victim, he or she will remain a rhetorical victim.  The pastor would fit into the catalyst category.

I will concede that some folks, most especially when they want to 'get' somebody, might draw the same conclusion you drew and, if I had not previously condemned the pastor's act, the way I worded it that would not be an unusual conclusion.  Reasonable people, however, accept the explanation of the person making it instead of continuing to pile on their erroneous conclusion.

So I'll reword my paragraph JUST for you dear.

That is one of the most frustrating phenomenons in this current age of  politics.  It has become fashionable to blame the 'unacceptable' catalyst of the crime or even the victim of the crime IF the catalyst involved or a victim is somebody who is out of favor or politically incorrect.

Happy now?


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## L.K.Eder (Apr 8, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> This is disgusting, the blame for these deaths lay at the feet of the stupid Afghan mob who killed them, just because an idiot burned a Quran doesnt give anyone an excuse to kill.



this shit does not occur in a vacuum. and the world is not black or white. and water is wet.


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## Foxfyre (Apr 8, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> I'm sure if this Pastor had burned a Bible instead,the usual suspects would be lining up to defend his right to do so. Lots of dishonesty,cowardice,and hypocrisy on this one. There is still no justification for going on a rampage and massacring innocent people. Period,end of story.



That was the point I was trying to make albeit apparently badly.

Depending on whether they are considered "good or bad", too often the focus will be on either the catalyst or the victim.  Sometimes they are painted with the same critical brush.

Disclaimer:  That is SOMETIMES Ravi--not all the time, not most of the time.  Also I made a distinction between a  catalyst and a victim as SOMETIMES--not all the time, not most of the time--but SOMETIMES being the the same thing.   The pastor in this case was NOT a victim but IS seen as the catalyst for a crime.

Some nut uses a military assault rifle to gun down people on a military base and, when it was determined he was a radicalized Muslim, was HE blamed and damned for the act?   Not by some.  They focused on Reagan and Bush being at fault for bombing Muslims or keeping some locked up at Guatanamo.

Some nut shoots into a crowd of people in Arizona.  Is he blamed and damned for the act?  Not by everybody.  If you believe the pages and pages on numerous threads, it was the fault of radio talk show hosts for inciting to riot (or some such) and the fault of Sarah Palin who used a certain graphic on her web site.  

Some hatefilled terrorists savagelly murder innocent victims, including little kids.  Is he blamed and damned for that act?  Not so much if you read some of the stuff on this and other threads.  It is bad Israeli policy that causes such acts--some even suggested the victims were 'asking' for it because they supported that Israeli policy--and there is far less focus on an advocate of a twisted religion that would tolerate such acts.

And now another massacre of some U.N. workers by another advocate of the same twisted religion.  A despicable act but is the focus on him?  Not according to some who seem gung ho to accuse a pastor who stupidly and hatefully burned a Qu'ran as the real reason it all happened.

It seems that some don't blame those who commit the crimes anymore.  It is politically incorrect.  They are 'victims' of their circumstances that can be anything from bullying to bad parenting to stingy politicians not providing enough funding to differences of opinion branded 'hate speech' on the radio or television or religious people demonstrating their opinion of something or bad acts of administrations past or present or whatever.

And it is THAT I find frustrating.


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## Sallow (Apr 8, 2011)

Hmm..


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## LibocalypseNow (Apr 11, 2011)

Oh don't worry,if this idiot had burned a Bible instead,the usual suspect Wingers would be here vigorously defending his right to do so. They're the crowd that loves to piously declare all those who disagree with them to be "Islamophobes." And we all know who those Wingers are. These Wingers just love insulting and berating Christianity while at the same time having a strange love affair with Islam. What a bunch of dishonest nutters. 

The fact is,we are a Free Nation. So the loon in Florida does have the right to burn a Koran. And believe me,if he was burning a Bible or dunking a Crucifix in urine,the usual suspect Wingers would be joyously defending this loon's right to do so. So don't buy into their "Islamophobe" accusations. They are very dishonest & hypocritical people. I don't like the guy burning a Koran but he does have the right to do so in my country. And fuck those miserable Muslim assholes who murdered those innocent people in response. Hey just my opinion anyway.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 11, 2011)

L.K.Eder said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > This is disgusting, the blame for these deaths lay at the feet of the stupid Afghan mob who killed them, just because an idiot burned a Quran doesnt give anyone an excuse to kill.
> ...



Huh? whats your point?


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## Foxfyre (Apr 11, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



I'm thinking he's going with the blame the victim and/or catalyst concept rather than blame the one who does the crime?


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## High_Gravity (Apr 11, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > L.K.Eder said:
> ...



Oh.


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## LibocalypseNow (Apr 11, 2011)

Yea i wouldn't listen to the "Islamophobe" accusation crowd too much on this one. They are known to be pretty dishonest & hypocritical. If he had dunked a Crucifix in urine or burned a Bible,they would all be here cheerleading and defending his right to do so. But because it's a Koran,they have a completely different take on it. Lefty Wingers are known for that kind of warped hypocrisy. They have this weird little love affair with Islam these days. But boy do they hate those bad Christians. They make no sense. So don't get too upset when they accuse you of being an "Islamophobe." They're just full of sheet as usual. I don't like burning or defacing any religious symbols but it is the right of all American Citizens. People should be defending this man. There are no justifications for killing innocent people over it. And shame on all those who are trying to defend that.


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## Ravi (Apr 11, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > I was commenting on this:
> ...


Much better. The catalyst bears some responsibility for his actions. Those people wouldn't be dead if he hadn't burned the Koran...there is really no getting away from that.

However unpc it might be to call a Christian pastor on his bullshit.


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## LibocalypseNow (Apr 11, 2011)

He should burn Bibles instead. Then the Lefty Wingers could jump on board and defend his right to do so. Because we all know how much they just love defending those who drop Crucifixes in urine and desecrate Bibles. This man has the right to burn a Koran. People should be focusing on that rather than trying to spin murdering innocent civilians is somehow justified. We are America. You have the Freedom to do stupid things like burning Korans and putting Crucifixes in urine. And i wouldn't want it any other way.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> He should burn Bibles instead. Then the Lefty Wingers could jump on board and defend his right to do so. Because we all know how much they just love defending those who drop Crucifixes in urine and desecrate Bibles. This man has the right to burn a Koran. People should be focusing on that rather than trying to spin murdering innocent civilians is somehow justified. We are America. You have the Freedom to do stupid things like burning Korans and putting Crucifixes in urine. And i wouldn't want it any other way.



I just don't get how it is ok to burn Bibles but if you burn a Quran, you can start riots in a country thousands of miles away?


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## Foxfyre (Apr 11, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > He should burn Bibles instead. Then the Lefty Wingers could jump on board and defend his right to do so. Because we all know how much they just love defending those who drop Crucifixes in urine and desecrate Bibles. This man has the right to burn a Koran. People should be focusing on that rather than trying to spin murdering innocent civilians is somehow justified. We are America. You have the Freedom to do stupid things like burning Korans and putting Crucifixes in urine. And i wouldn't want it any other way.
> ...



But you see, except for the very occasional mentally ill nut, burning a Bible saddens or angers Christians but does not incite them to riot, mayhem, or murder.  Radicalized militant Islam is a much different animal.

So the question is.  Do we live our lives so as not to offend radicalized militant Islam which will eventually put us totally under the power of their leaders and clerics?  Do we blame those who decide not to accommodate radicalized militant Islam and who choose to exercise their constitutionally protected rights?

Or do we hold to our principles of a free people being free to do stupid or hateful things that do not infringe on the unalienable, civil, legal, or constitutional rights of others?  And do we hold accountable those who would deny people such rights and would even murder people because somebody exercised their constitutionally protected rights?


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## High_Gravity (Apr 11, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > LibocalypseNow said:
> ...



Thats the thing, if we are walking on egg shells scared to offend Muslims and are blaming the pastor rather than the retarded Afghan mob that killed those UN Workers, the jihadists have already won. We already got our female Soldiers wearing hijabs in Afghanistan.


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## LibocalypseNow (Apr 11, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > He should burn Bibles instead. Then the Lefty Wingers could jump on board and defend his right to do so. Because we all know how much they just love defending those who drop Crucifixes in urine and desecrate Bibles. This man has the right to burn a Koran. People should be focusing on that rather than trying to spin murdering innocent civilians is somehow justified. We are America. You have the Freedom to do stupid things like burning Korans and putting Crucifixes in urine. And i wouldn't want it any other way.
> ...



Yea i hear ya. Lefty Wingers are usually pretty dishonest & hypocritical on issues like this. They're the first ones to come out and aggressively defend anyone who desecrates a Bible or defames Christianity in any way. They're also the first ones to label someone an "Islamophobe." They have some sort of twisted love affair with Islam right now. I'm sure it has something to do with their petty hatred of Christians. They see Islam as a way of hurting Christians i guess. Therefore they feel they need to side with it all the time. It's that "Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend." shit i guess. It's really warped shit. To justify & equate beheading an innocent human being with burning a Koran is just plain ludicrous. Shame on anyone who tries to spin this in that way. Like i said,if he decided to burn Bibles instead,we would probably see some honesty from the Lefty Wingers. It is what it is i guess.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > LibocalypseNow said:
> ...



Or maybe their just scared? ever since 9/11 people have gone out of their way to try and not offend Muslims, even to the point where we are blaming the victims and putting our own soldiers in Islamic dress to give the people shooting at them warm and fuzzies. Thank god our grandparents weren't this soft back in WW2, otherwise we would had our Soldiers put Swastikas on their uniforms to appease the Germans and paint their faces and dress up like Geisha girls to appease the Japanese.


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## Baruch Menachem (Apr 11, 2011)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wveW9Tw2JKE"]lets the scum rise again[/ame]


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## LibocalypseNow (Apr 11, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Yea you're right,it is some of that too. But i think it's also about the Left's irrational hate & hostility towards Christians. They see Islam as some sort of ally in the fight against those "bad" Christians. It really is very irrational and bizarre. But i have observed this mentality for years on the Left. If this guy was burning Bibles or putting Crucifixes in urine,do you really think the Left wouldn't be vigorously defending his right to do so? I've already observed them doing that so i know the answer. But your point is a good one. It's probably both fear and an irrational hatred for Christians that drives the Left to defend Islam while insulting Christianity. Thanks for the reply.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > LibocalypseNow said:
> ...



LOL if they think radical Muslims are their friends against Christians, they have another thing coming, if anything those clowns will be the first ones on the chopping blocks because they have no religion and are apostates.


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## LibocalypseNow (Apr 11, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



LOL! I know,that's why i said their mentality is irrational & bizarre. Their irrational hatred of Christians has forced them into that old "Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend" stuff. They just don't know any better. They can't help themselves. Burn a Bible or put a Crucifix in urine,the Left will be your bestest buddies. Burn a Koran,the Left will screech their condemnations and justify beheading innocent people over it. It's very silly stuff.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > LibocalypseNow said:
> ...



Makes no damn sense, it almost makes that retarded Afghan mob look smart.


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## LibocalypseNow (Apr 11, 2011)

The ACLU has been silent on this. I don't see anyone from the ACLU hopping up on their high horses to defend this man's right to burn a Koran. Now if he was burning a Bible or putting a Crucifix in urine,do you really believe they would be this quiet? I've seen those jerks routinely jump for joy anytime Christianity is insulted. Their the first ones to get up on their soap boxes and screech about the right to insult Christianity. So where are they on this one? Just more dishonesty & hypocrisy from the Left. Nothing ever changes.


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## High_Gravity (Apr 11, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> The ACLU has been silent on this. I don't see anyone from the ACLU hopping up on their high horses to defend this man's right to burn a Koran. Now if he was burning a Bible or putting a Crucifix in urine,do you really believe they would be this quiet? I've seen those jerks routinely jump for joy anytime Christianity is insulted. Their the first ones to get up on their soap boxes and screech about the right to insult Christianity. So where are they on this one? Just more dishonesty & hypocrisy from the Left. Nothing ever changes.



The ACLU doesn't give a damn about Christians, you could take a dump on a Bible and they won't care, but if you accidentally drop the Quran you will get sued.


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## Ravi (Apr 11, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > The ACLU has been silent on this. I don't see anyone from the ACLU hopping up on their high horses to defend this man's right to burn a Koran. Now if he was burning a Bible or putting a Crucifix in urine,do you really believe they would be this quiet? I've seen those jerks routinely jump for joy anytime Christianity is insulted. Their the first ones to get up on their soap boxes and screech about the right to insult Christianity. So where are they on this one? Just more dishonesty & hypocrisy from the Left. Nothing ever changes.
> ...


Wrong. Just a quick google search will find plenty of cases where the ACLU sues on behalf of Christians.

And here's a cute one just for you:

ACLU Defends Christian Students' Anti-Islam T-Shirts : Dispatches from the Culture Wars


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