# Jordan didntwin his  first NBA titletill he was 29



## ginscpy (Jul 10, 2011)

Didnt didn't do that  much at N.Carolina.  Carolina was always a winning program.

Lew Alcindor - by contrast - won 3 straight NCAA titles out of 3 possible.

Andwon the NBA title in his 2nd season  with the expansion Milwaukee Bucks.



If I had to start a team - I would take Alcindor/Jabbar over Jordan.


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## elvis (Jul 10, 2011)

He was 28, you stupid worthless fuck.


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## Dabs (Jul 10, 2011)

Michael Jordan's coach in North Carolina also told MJ that he didn't have a chance of getting into the NBA, he needed to choose another career/profession, because he didn't have what it takes.
Who's laughing now??
Jordan totally kicked ass when he was with the Bulls.


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## ginscpy (Jul 10, 2011)

28- 29 -whatever.

Alcindor was 23 when he won his first NBA title - after winning 3 titles at  UCLA. 

Jordan is overrated.   I didnt like his retirement/baseball  GRANDSTANDING ACT in 1993. 
And he also talked about joing the Champions golf tour.    HE IS A HACKER.   Has in inflated ego.


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## Mad Scientist (Jul 10, 2011)

True but Lebron has "The Chosen One" tattooed on his back. Take THAT Micheal Jordan!


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## Dabs (Jul 10, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> 28- 29 -whatever.
> 
> Alcindor was 23 when he won his first NBA title - after winning 3 titles at  UCLA.
> 
> ...



How do you figure he is overrated??
For Christ's sake, I hardly hear anything about him anymore.
And MJ worked hard to become known as Air Jordan..he wasn't some fluke, he was a damn good basketball player.
And look how many years MJ played......how about you come back several years down the road when this Alcindor can claim the same amount of championship rings as Jordan has.
I doubt your Alcindor achieves that many......just my thoughts.


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## elvis (Jul 10, 2011)

Mad Scientist said:


> True but Lebron has "The Chosen One" tattooed on his back. Take THAT Micheal Jordan!



I think "Choke" would be a fitting tattoo for him.


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## imbalance (Jul 10, 2011)

TS also said this about Yao Ming in another thread:



ginscpy said:


> He never was very good to begin with.



I have a feeling TS doesn't actually watch the NBA.


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## Article 15 (Jul 16, 2011)

Dabs said:


> Michael Jordan's coach in North Carolina also told MJ that he didn't have a chance of getting into the NBA, he needed to choose another career/profession, because he didn't have what it takes.
> *Who's laughing now??*
> Jordan totally kicked ass when he was with the Bulls.



I'm going with neither of them.  Smith did what he was paid to do; motivate his players.  It's called knowing your players and what buttons to push to get the most out of them.


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## Article 15 (Jul 16, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> 28- 29 -whatever.
> 
> Alcindor was 23 when he won his first NBA title - after winning 3 titles at  UCLA.
> 
> ...


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## Paulie (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm not understanding what the age you won your first title matters.  The guy dominated his sport his entire career and did nothing but ultimately bring home championship after championship.

He was the quintessential winner.


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## Montrovant (Jul 16, 2011)

Much as I don't like basketball, Jordan was clearly one of the best players in NBA history.  Not only for his stats and championships, but for the good attention and recognition he brought to the sport.  

I seem to remember Jordan getting a 1 year, $30 million contract one year.  Normally, that type of contract seems ridiculous.  In Jordan's case, it seemed like a bargain.  Wasn't he, at one point, the most recognizable figure in the world?  Even if he wasn't the best player ever, he was almost surely the best single player for the NBA.


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## Dabs (Jul 16, 2011)

Montrovant said:


> Much as I don't like basketball, Jordan was clearly one of the best players in NBA history.  Not only for his stats and championships, but for the good attention and recognition he brought to the sport.
> 
> I seem to remember Jordan getting a 1 year, $30 million contract one year.  Normally, that type of contract seems ridiculous.  In Jordan's case, it seemed like a bargain.  Wasn't he, at one point, the most recognizable figure in the world?  Even if he wasn't the best player ever, he was almost surely the best single player for the NBA.



I believe he was.
And I'm not a huge sports lover, but being the Mother of sons who played basketball, we watched the Chicago Bulls on a regular basis.
Even I liked watching Jordan 'fly'


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## kiwiman127 (Jul 16, 2011)

MJ hands down, is the best baller to play the game.


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## ginscpy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your crazy - Jordan dodnt do beans until he was an old man.

Didnt do anythingin college  - and mosto fhis titles were against crappy teams anyway.
  (UTAH SEATTLE)

 Alcindor/Jabbar won 3 straight  titles  out of 3 possible possible at UCLA - won the NBA title in his 2nd season with the expansion Miwaukee  Bucks - and finished  as theall  time-NBA leading score.

Karl Malone didn twantto break his record so he retired early...............  

Jordan didnt even make his HS tream -whileAlcindor was a legend at Power Memorial


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## Dabs (Jul 17, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Your crazy - Jordan dodnt do beans until he was an old man.
> 
> Didnt do anythingin college  - and mosto fhis titles were against crappy teams anyway.
> (UTAH SEATTLE)
> ...



An old man??
Jordan was playing professional basketball when he was in his 20s...what the fuck do you consider old??
What are you, about 14??


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## JamesInFlorida (Jul 19, 2011)

-6 championships (his team couldn't do it without him during his baseball break)
-6 NBA finals MVP
-2 Olympic gold medals
-5 NBA MVPs
-10 scoring titles (7 in a row-I think, not totally sure about the 7 in a row)
-14 time all-star
-1 time NBA defensive player of the year (people forget he was damn good on defense too)

Yup you're right-he's so overrated.


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## Gadawg73 (Jul 19, 2011)

He would have made the show in baseball also.


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## aplcr0331 (Jul 20, 2011)

So you're saying that whatever MJ did in college in not valid because it was North Carolina and they are always good? Ummm....you are aware that UCLA is perhaps the greatest college basketball dynasty ever, right? 7 titles in a row? In the three years prior to Lew Alindor's arrival in Westwood they won 2 NCAA titles!! After Lew left they still won 5 more fricking titles! 

MJ's title doesn't count? OK.

How many titles did Kareem win in LA without Magic? Zero
How many titles did Kareem win in Milwaukee with Oscar? Zero

If Kareem is the one you start your team with, how come he can't win a title by himself? You mentioned MJ beating inferior teams for titles? What about Jabbar loosing to Seattle in 78 and 79 and not even making the finals? Talk about shitty.

Look, if you think Jabbar is the best player that's an opinion...it's not shared by too many people but it's still an opinion. Just know that you invalidate any point you are trying to make when you say stupid shit about Jordan, whom most people agree is the greatest basketball player of all time.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 20, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Didnt didn't do that  much at N.Carolina.  Carolina was always a winning program.
> 
> Lew Alcindor - by contrast - won 3 straight NCAA titles out of 3 possible.
> 
> ...



You are a retard ginscpy, the only reason Jordan didn't win a title in the 80's is because he didn't have a good enough supporting cast plus the Pistons, Celtics and Lakers were all in their prime in the 80s, those guys were never going to let a young wet behind the ears Michael Jordan steal a title from them.


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## Gadawg73 (Jul 20, 2011)

As a young pup I was born and raised in Raleigh until 1965. Until I took up football basketball was my main game. MJ was one of the best, if not the best, athletes in the world in his prime. NBA is probably the most demanding league ON EARTH.


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## Dabs (Jul 20, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> ginscpy said:
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Right you are!
Hell, he couldn't, or shouldn't, be expected to be the entire team during play time, and some games, MJ scored over half the points by his lonesome!


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## Dabs (Jul 20, 2011)

Gadawg73 said:


> As a young pup I was born and raised in Raleigh until 1965. Until I took up football basketball was my main game. MJ was one of the best, if not the best, athletes in the world in his prime. NBA is probably the most demanding league ON EARTH.



I very much agree.
And when People Magazine (and Sports Illustrated) came out with their top ever-how-many athletes of all time, Jordan has always been somewhere in the top


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## Montrovant (Jul 20, 2011)

Gadawg73 said:


> As a young pup I was born and raised in Raleigh until 1965. Until I took up football basketball was my main game. MJ was one of the best, if not the best, athletes in the world in his prime. NBA is probably the most demanding league ON EARTH.



What makes it the most demanding?  I can only assume you mean mentally, since it isn't the most demanding physically.


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## ginscpy (Jul 20, 2011)

Kareem was distracted by events in his private life in the mid to late 70s.  (his dry spell)

Was (and is) a devout Muslim -religion was more important than basketball.  Involved in all sorts of civil rights causes also.   Knew Ali.

Owned a rental house in Washington DC - where multiple people were murdered. (don't believe the case has been solved to this day.)     Distraction.

Also had BIG- TIME migraine headache spells.

It wasn't until Magic arrived on the  scene that he got enthused again.   Was just going-through-the-motions until then.


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## Dabs (Jul 20, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Kareem was distracted by events in his private life in the mid to late 70s.  (his dry spell)
> 
> Was (and is) a devout Muslim -religion was more important than basketball.  Involved in all sorts of civil rights causes also.  * Knew Ali.*
> 
> ...



And your point to all this...is????????
Give me a fucking break dude....I'm on Candid Camera, right?? You're joking with us, cause surely to God you aren't that fucking stupid.
And the above in red, who gives a shit.......I swear, you are talking out your ass


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## aplcr0331 (Jul 21, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Kareem was distracted by events in his private life in the mid to late 70s.  (his dry spell)
> 
> Was (and is) a devout Muslim -religion was more important than basketball.  Involved in all sorts of civil rights causes also.   Knew Ali.
> 
> ...



The Distraction as you so eloquently call it of the murders in Kareem's house were because he was Muslim. Because of his religion. The 5 kids murdered in that house, from a 9 month old to a 10 year old were murdered over a fight between Muslim fanatics (but I repeast myself). Classy. 

Headaches? Ya sure, but he is well known weed smoker so those are automatically cancelled out. He smoke dope to clear up the headaches. 

Going through the motions does not a great player make. He coasted is what you are saying? He couldn't win a championship without a top 5 (ever) point guard? 

He was a dominant player. Put up big numbers (*cough Russell retired, **cough cough**Wilt on the downside**cough) without facing any truly dominant centers. Willis Reed? Ok, power forward. Wes Unseld? Yeah, another power forward. Bill Walton? When healthy Walton owned Kareem with his all-over game control and superb passing (See who won the 1977 NBA Championship). 

You're reaching, I think you know this. Kareem is top 5 in the NBA. Top 5! But he is not number 1, that's for Jordan (or perhaps Russell, depending on your mood).


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

Dabs said:


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I remember him scoring 63 points in the playoffs against the 1986 Celtics, Larry Bird called Michael Jordan God in a basketball uniform.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

Montrovant said:


> Gadawg73 said:
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> ...



The NBA season is 82 games not counting the playoffs, it is pretty demanding physically.


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## Article 15 (Jul 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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That game not making SI's top individual performances of all time list was prolly the number one reason amongst many why that list sucked balls.


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## Article 15 (Jul 21, 2011)

Montrovant said:


> Gadawg73 said:
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> > As a young pup I was born and raised in Raleigh until 1965. Until I took up football basketball was my main game. MJ was one of the best, if not the best, athletes in the world in his prime. NBA is probably the most demanding league ON EARTH.
> ...





Have you ever watched Ray Allen play?

Do you see any of those guys wearing pads?


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## Two Thumbs (Jul 21, 2011)

7 NBA Championships.

How the hell is that over rated?


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

Dabs said:


> ginscpy said:
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Unfortunatly Dabs yes, gincspy is this fucking stupid.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


> 7 NBA Championships.
> 
> How the hell is that over rated?



6 actually Thumbs, probably would be 7 if he didn't take a year and a half break to play Baseball.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

Article 15 said:


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The NBA is physcially demanding plus the season is very long, it puts wear and tear on the body and the NBA players are pretty big and it gets physical, especially in the low post, imagine having to bang with Dwight Howard for an hour and a half, no thank you.


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## Article 15 (Jul 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Larry Bird called Michael Jordan God in a basketball uniform.




The exact quote was, "God disguised as Michael Jordan" that night... I looked it up.

I don't think it can be expressed at how big of a deal it was for Bird to say that.  The dude HATED everyone he played against and was as fierce a competitor that history will every see.  If you helped a player from an opposing team up off the floor, Larry was putting you on the floor in the locker room when the game was over.  He gave no quarter.


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## GHook93 (Jul 21, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Didnt didn't do that  much at N.Carolina.  Carolina was always a winning program.
> 
> Lew Alcindor - by contrast - won 3 straight NCAA titles out of 3 possible.
> 
> ...



Alltime ppg leader! He won two threepeats and would have won 8 in a row if some hoodrat didn't murder his father!


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## GHook93 (Jul 21, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Jordan is overrated.


Them fightin words in Chictown!



ginscpy said:


> I didnt like his retirement/baseball  GRANDSTANDING ACT in 1993.


His father who he was EXTREMELY close with was murdered during a carjacking. He was emotionally wrecked! You know he is not a real god, he has feelings too!


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

Article 15 said:


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You are absolutely right, Larry gave no mercy to the people he played against and Bird was a very big trash talker, for him to compliment an opposing player like that really says something. Bird would not have said that if Michael was not spectacular.


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## GHook93 (Jul 21, 2011)

Dabs said:


> Michael Jordan's coach in North Carolina also told MJ that he didn't have a chance of getting into the NBA, he needed to choose another career/profession, because he didn't have what it takes.
> .


That is not true! You made it up!


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## GHook93 (Jul 21, 2011)

aplcr0331 said:


> So you're saying that whatever MJ did in college in not valid because it was North Carolina and they are always good? Ummm....you are aware that UCLA is perhaps the greatest college basketball dynasty ever, right? 7 titles in a row? In the three years prior to Lew Alindor's arrival in Westwood they won 2 NCAA titles!! After Lew left they still won 5 more fricking titles!
> 
> MJ's title doesn't count? OK.
> 
> ...



I agree no one just hands them the title, the players have to PLAY! NCAA tournment is one of the hardest tournments to predict. It doesn't give teams any breathing room. And the best team doesn't always win! The team that players better that night WINS!


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## Two Thumbs (Jul 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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---------------------------
Microsoft Internet Explorer
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to High_Gravity again.
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OK   
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## GHook93 (Jul 21, 2011)

I think Kareem was great but overrated. They say he was the best center and Laker ever. I disagree with both.

For Centers: I put  Wilt, SHAQ, Hakeem, Russel and Robinson over him (and if you consider Duncan a center, him also)

For Lakers: I put Kobe, Magic, SHAQ and West ahead of him



ginscpy said:


> Didnt didn't do that  much at N.Carolina.  Carolina was always a winning program.
> 
> Lew Alcindor - by contrast - won 3 straight NCAA titles out of 3 possible.
> 
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## aplcr0331 (Jul 21, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> I think Kareem was great but overrated. They say he was the best center and Laker ever. I disagree with both.
> 
> For Centers: I put  Wilt, SHAQ, Hakeem, Russel and Robinson over him (and if you consider Duncan a center, him also)
> 
> For Lakers: I put Kobe, Magic, SHAQ and West ahead of him



Shit man, now you have gone too far. Wilt over Jabbar? Really? Shaq too? No way. Robinson over Jabbar....now that's just retarded. Duncan is the greatest power forward ever. Not a center.

What objective measure is there that Robinson, Hakeem, or Shaq are rated over Jabbar?


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## Dabs (Jul 21, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> ginscpy said:
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I recall this, and it still gives me chills when I watched the game where he said he was playing for his Dad and when he won the trophy, he grabbed it and slumped to the ground...very emotional.


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## Montrovant (Jul 21, 2011)

Article 15 said:


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So not wearing pads = more physically demanding?  

Sports like football, hockey or rugby require more strength.  I think a sport like soccer requires more stamina (I hate soccer, but those fuckers sure do have to run around forever!).  Hockey has just as many games, baseball has many more.  Something like UFC, which requires strength, stamina, agility, and mental toughness, could easily be argued as more physically demanding than any of the major sports leagues.  So what, exactly, makes basketball the most demanding league on earth?


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

I'll tell you one thing if Kareem played today he would average 40 points per game, there are no Robert Parishs, Hakeems or Ralph Samsons to try and guard him anymore.


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## Article 15 (Jul 21, 2011)

Montrovant said:


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I don't think it's the most physically demanding I just got a kick out of your dismissiveness at it being the most physically demanding.

Personally, I think boxing and tennis are the most physically demanding.


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## driveby (Jul 21, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Didnt didn't do that  much at N.Carolina.  Carolina was always a winning program.
> 
> Lew Alcindor - by contrast - won 3 straight NCAA titles out of 3 possible.
> 
> ...



It's a good thing that the highest position you'll ever achieve in the NBA is back up waterboy. Jordan was the best and most complete basketball player there ever was. Kareem was a good scorer, but lazy on defense and rebounding, he also was not that good at keeping his teammates involved in the game.......


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## aplcr0331 (Jul 21, 2011)

There was a poll out that enlisted Sports Scientist from the Olympic Committee, Academics who study muscles and muscle movement, athletes and journalists. It had a bunch of criteria and was the most scientific and objective list I have seen. I'll look for it, but the the top was Boxing then Hockey, basketball was 4th behind football and ahead of soccer, skiing, water polo and rugby.


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## aplcr0331 (Jul 21, 2011)

Found it:

ESPN.com: Page 2 - Sport Skills Difficulty Rankings

It's actually pretty interesting. My favorite sport is basketball. As long as you don't get wrapped around the axle because *your *favorite sport is not number one....it seems like a good reasonable and objective list.

Much better than non-athletes on the internet arguing back and forth


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## Dabs (Jul 21, 2011)

driveby said:


> ginscpy said:
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I so agree with the above in red. I enjoyed watching Jordan play. I had fun with my children as we sat and watched the Bulls, I loved the opening music as they came onto the court!
It was a thrill to watch Jordan play. He had hang time that seemed to be longer than most everyone else. And they did a study once on this...true story...because it seemed like Michael Jordan was 'flying'....or 'hanging in the air' longer than the norm.
And they discovered it was because of his leg span and the way he jumped. But he always looked to be able to fly and he was remarkable to watch.
I don't get why the OP wants to crap out on somebody just because they did something great with their life, did something positive and good. And Jordan is still a positive role model.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

Dabs said:


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Jordan used to play so good I wanted to see him lose in the Finals, but he never allowed it to happen. He would never allow anyone to beat him on the court, when people try to tell me Lebron is better than Jordan I laugh in their face because Lebron totally vanished on the big stage in the Finals against Dallas, if Miami had Michael Jordan on their team instead of Lebron they would have whupped Dallas in 5 games and Jordan would have averaged 39 points per game with Jason Kidd and Jason Terry guarding him.


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## aplcr0331 (Jul 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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39? Remember that when Jordan was playing they were allowed to do that nasty hand check defense and push the offensive player all over the floor. MJ would have killed Kidd, way too quick for him. Jason Terry, MJ would have posted that little dude up so much it would have looked like what Hakeem did to David Robinson...

I'm guessing 45-50 in the finals for Jordan.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

aplcr0331 said:


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Jason Kidd is 39 years old, MJ would have TORCHED him, lol I was trying to give Jason Terry a little credit but you are right, Jordan would have put up 45-50 in the Finals against Dallas.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

That says something about Lebron though, why didn't he dominate the match ups against Terry and a 39 year old Jason Kidd? its not like Dallas had Scottie Pippen or James Worthy out there guarding Lebrick.


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## Gadawg73 (Jul 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> I'll tell you one thing if Kareem played today he would average 40 points per game, there are no Robert Parishs, Hakeems or Ralph Samsons to try and guard him anymore.



Damn straight he would. 
Ralph was banged up but he was a better defensive rebounder than most folks know. The first 4 or 5 years of his career he was GREAT. Pac Man as he had 200 blocks his rookie year. Olajuwon was one of my favorite players. 4000 0RB 9700 DRB and 3800 blocks! DAMN! Robert with 21 seasons and 1600 games played. I would have carried a bong with me on the road too if I had to play that long and hard! Pissed me off Celtics didn't let him finish his career there and he went to Bulls.


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## Gadawg73 (Jul 21, 2011)

Montrovant said:


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> ...



What sport is more demanding physically than pro basketball?
It isn't football or hockey. I played football and basketball and basketball took more of a toll than football and I played twice as many seasons in football.
What other sport do they play the schedule they do and run over 8 miles a game? 
Ask any pro trainer what is the most grueling on the body sport there is.
Pro basketball. Toughest league in the world.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

Gadawg73 said:


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I think the length of the season also makes a difference, if you think about it training camp starts in September and can go all the way to May-June if you make it to the playoffs, very demanding and physcially exhausting schedule, you play 82 regular season games not even counting the playoffs and pre-season.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 21, 2011)

Gadawg73 said:


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There just enough good centers out there anymore, Dwight Howard would get shredded by Kareem and even the other decent centers like Joakin Noah, Kendrick Perkins, Andrew Bynum etc would have their lunch took, I watched a repeat of game 4 of the 1984 NBA Finals with the Lakers and Celtics and Kareem just scored at ease against Parish and McHale, Kareem was so long and very fundamentally sound, his hook shot was unstoppable. He would be killing it in the league today and command the highest salary.


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## GHook93 (Jul 21, 2011)

aplcr0331 said:


> GHook93 said:
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From what I watched. I measure it that way! 

Shaq and Wilt were the most dominate big men of all time! 

I said IF you consider Duncan a center? Duncan played PF his whole career, however, his game resembled that of a center.


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## GHook93 (Jul 21, 2011)

(1) Michael Jordan - Played every aspect of the game to a godlike level. Was the best competitor of any sport ever! 
(2) Magic - Could play all 5 position to superstar level.
(3) Kobe - The closet thing we will have to MJ ever.
(4) Shaq - The most dominate big man ever. Free throws were his downfall, but he was unstoppable.
(5) Duncan - So dominate and unstoppable, create competitor and great leader.
(6) Wilt - Second most dominate player ever. Yes he scored more than Shaq, but against littler player
(7) LBJ - Yes I hate the guy and for good reason. He hasn't one the big one yet, but he will have a few rings before all is said and done
(8) Bird - Larry Legend was amazing!
(9) Kareem - I back track alittle. Second thought he is ahead of West as a Laker, and Robinson and Russell as a center.
(10) The Big O - The man averaged a triple double, what else needs to be said!


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## Gadawg73 (Jul 21, 2011)

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Dude, I played 15 seasons of football. Saw many OL 6'3", 315 that could lift a VW bug.
Strength does not make an athlete.
What college football player can play in the NBA?
There are former college basketball players in the NFL that DID NOT play college football. 
They are that good as athletes. They have to be. 
Baseball? UFC? Man, you know nothing about athletes.
What UFC fighter played basketball anywhere? 
Running 8 miles a game+ for 100 games in 7 months.
Soccer has to be in the top also but no where near as rough as basketball. Soccer athletes are better as a whole than football and I also do not like the game.
NBA is toughest league in all of sports. NBA is the HARDEST sport to make it in. HARDEST sport to play a full season in. Great players in college that do not even get drafted. Only 15 spots and most 2nd rounders do not make it. What other sport only has 2 rounds in the draft?


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## Gadawg73 (Jul 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


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He and many like him in the NBA could play TE in the NFL.
Jimmy Johnson said years ago there was a shortage of quality TEs in the NFL because they were all playing in the NBA. And then we saw Gates taken by the Chargers.
All you see and FEEL when around Howard are head, elbows, fingernails, teeth and knees. He is like buying a tank and getting 40 miles to the gallon.


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## aplcr0331 (Jul 21, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> (1) Michael Jordan - Played every aspect of the game to a godlike level. Was the best competitor of any sport ever!
> (2) Magic - Could play all 5 position to superstar level.
> (3) Kobe - The closet thing we will have to MJ ever.
> (4) Shaq - The most dominate big man ever. Free throws were his downfall, but he was unstoppable.
> ...



Shaq's not in my top ten. To up and down for me, had the potential to be a top five guy, but did not want it (see MJ and Kobe). 

1. MJ - Seriously who questions this? Besides people who don't know basketball and just like to be arguementative?

2. Russell - He didn't even make your lists? You forgot about Russell right? D-to the mutha fucking fense. Best player on teams that won 11 rings.

3. Kareem - This sucks, but the man could ball and that he did it well for so long. We covered his foibles. I might move him down later 

4. Magic - Played against a virtual who's who in the Finals: Bird, Moses, Isiah, MJ...ten finals appearance over 13 years and 6 titles.

5. Bird - A game that was never about stats, but he could fill it up. One of only three playes to be in the top 50 all time leaders in the three major b-ball categories: 16th in PPG, 41st in APG, and 46th in RPG. 

6. Wilt - His numbers are so obscene, that people just don't even think about them anymore. More dominant that Shaq...by a large margin.

7. Duncan - 4 titles, 2 MVP's, three finals MVP's and 9 1st team all NBA's. Underrated. 

8. Oscar - Triple double for three years. One of the most complete players ever.

9. West - Obscene numbers, did whatever needed to win. Great defender and all around game. He's the logo. 

10. Hakeem - Incredible athlete would have been at NBA start at any height 6' to 7'. Incredible numbers on a shitty team (worse than whay KG in MN was saddled with). Destroyed Robinson in one final and Shaq in another. Killed Kareem in the 86 playoffs. Watch his youtube videos. It's like a video game.


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## Article 15 (Jul 21, 2011)

Elite level professional boxing has been described as running a marathon while having punches thrown at you.


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## rdean (Jul 21, 2011)

Jordan didn't win his first NBA title till he was 29

No, the Bulls didn't win THEIR first NBA championship until Jordan was 29.  It's a team sport.

Remember, the Bulls never won a title without Scotty Pippen.


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## Montrovant (Jul 21, 2011)

Gadawg73 said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> > Article 15 said:
> ...



You need to get off the football kick.  That was one of a number of sports I mentioned, and it was only for one attribute.  

Why should I care if people in other sports played basketball?  What effect does that have on this discussion?  How many basketball players have played professional hockey?  None?  Well, hockey must be more demanding!

I only mentioned baseball in regards to the number of games played.  I would never actually put it in a list of sports with the best athletes.

Are you trying to say UFC fighters aren't good athletes?  Perhaps you are the  one.  They need strength, speed, agility, and yes, even endurance.  A championship fight can go for 25 minutes, and while that's not as long as most sports, it's a hell of a lot when you're getting hit.  I imagine that's why the list someone else posted had boxing at the top, all those rounds of fighting.

I don't know why the NBA only has a 2 round draft.  Are there a lot fewer players in the league than other sports? 

I put the NHL above the NBA for hardest sport to play a full season in.  Basically the same number of games and as far as I'm concerned easily the toughest playoffs of the major sports.

I'm not saying the NBA doesn't have good athletes in it.  It certainly does.


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## Gadawg73 (Jul 22, 2011)

Montrovant said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Montrovant said:
> ...



Good post. I respect your opinion. Well said and backed up.
Different perspectives is what you pointed out and that is true. I come from the football world and seeing Antonio Gates and others that never played college football be stars ibn the NFL, to me that is a big reason why I consider them better athletes.
Also, at DE where they stuck my big country ass for most of my playing years since age 6, I had to take on so many TEs that were quicker than me it biased my opinion. And usually it was with an OL or fullback as a double team!
I love hockey and we just lost our team.But with the line changes it is no where near the running that NBA players do.
Good discussion. You make valid points.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 22, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> (1) Michael Jordan - Played every aspect of the game to a godlike level. Was the best competitor of any sport ever!
> (2) Magic - Could play all 5 position to superstar level.
> (3) Kobe - The closet thing we will have to MJ ever.
> (4) Shaq - The most dominate big man ever. Free throws were his downfall, but he was unstoppable.
> ...



Lebron does not deserve to be on this list, if he was really a top 10 player in NBA history he would have destroyed Jason Kidd and Jason Terry and Miami would have another championship by now, a top 10 player doesn't get shut down in the fourth quarter by a 39 year old Jason Kidd and Jason Terry.


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## JamesInFlorida (Jul 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Gadawg73 said:
> 
> 
> > Montrovant said:
> ...



I'm not trying to diminish how physically demanding a NBA season is-but I think the NHL is worse. You play the same amount of regular season games-and same amount of playoff games. The NHL also has more traveling-especially for the Western Conference. The season itself is longer than the NBA. Actual season starts first week of October (training camps obviously before that), and ends in June.

As far game by game goes-demanding depends on position. A top pairing defensemen in the NHL in my opinion is much more demanding than any position in the NBA is.


Anyways enough of my rant. Michael Jordan would wipe the floor with Lebron, and would absolutely dominate today's NBA. I think people who don't say that-just never really saw the guy play.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 25, 2011)

JamesInFlorida said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
> ...



Oh I'll take your word for it my knowledge on hockey is limited, I didn't know they played as many games as the NBA. I agree Jordan would own Lebron, and I also think Larry Bird and Magic Johnson would dominate the NBA today as well if they were still playing in their primes, I can't even name 1 player who could cover Magic or Larry singlehandedly.


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## Article 15 (Jul 25, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> JamesInFlorida said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Lebron would be an afterthought if those three guys were in the league right now.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 25, 2011)

Article 15 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > JamesInFlorida said:
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Shit if Lebron played in the 90s he would just be another all star lost in the mix, Lebron reminds me of another Dominique Wilkins, alot of flash and talent but no killer instinct to win a title.


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## Dabs (Jul 25, 2011)

JamesInFlorida said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Gadawg73 said:
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Very well said, and I agree!


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## zzzz (Jul 25, 2011)

Bill Russell
11 NBA championships in 13 years
5 time MVP
12 time all star
2 NCAA Championships

Michael Jordan and Bill Russell had one thing in common, teammates. Without quality teammates neither one would have won anything. They were great players but basketball is a team game and you have to have great players teamed up with a quality team and they must be able to work together. Bill Russell could have scored many more points but he was not a selfish player and concentrating on rebounding and swatting the rock away. Micheal had Scotty Pippen, a player that took a lot of heat away from Mike. Over rated? No. He was a great player just like many others who never had the team mates to help and keep teams from smothering them.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 25, 2011)

zzzz said:


> Bill Russell
> 11 NBA championships in 13 years
> 5 time MVP
> 12 time all star
> ...



I agree with that to an extent but than again you can have great team mates and still fail, just this past year Lebron had 2 other all stars on his squad Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh and he came up short against Dallas. Hell the Lakers in 2004 had 4 hall of famers Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Shaq and Kobe and laid an egg against Detroit.


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## zzzz (Jul 25, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> zzzz said:
> 
> 
> > Bill Russell
> ...



They must be able to play as a team, not as individuals, plus as any of you know that have played the game, sometimes the rock just won't fit in the hole and the other can't miss a shot!!!


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## High_Gravity (Jul 25, 2011)

zzzz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > zzzz said:
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Yeah you right about that.


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## Dabs (Jul 28, 2011)

Hey ginscpy, blow it our your ass bub.

TOP TEN BIGGEST ATHLETES OF THE 20th CENTURY

1. MICHAEL JORDAN

2. Babe Ruth

3. Muhammed Ali

4. Jim Brown

5. Wayne Gretzky

6, Jesse Owens

7. Jim Thorpe

8. Willie Mays

9. Jack Nicklaus

10. Babe Didrikson

Source: (there's a website link that's supposed to go here, but not sure if it's allowed to be posted, but if anyone wants it, hey, PM me, I'll give it to ya)
According to ESPN.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 28, 2011)

Dabs said:


> Hey ginscpy, blow it our your ass bub.
> 
> TOP TEN BIGGEST ATHLETES OF THE 20th CENTURY
> 
> ...



Jordan was a beast, definently deserves this.


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## ginscpy (Aug 1, 2011)

Wilt was so overrated it is pathetic.  (on and off the court)

Named #1 center off alltime ahead of Russell and Kareeem. 

Won 2 pidly titles.


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## ginscpy (Aug 1, 2011)

Dabs said:


> Hey ginscpy, blow it our your ass bub.
> 
> TOP TEN BIGGEST ATHLETES OF THE 20th CENTURY
> 
> ...



All great athletes.  Still think Jordan is overrated .    Was a nobody in HS and college.

SHOWED UP 2 SPORTS( baseball and golf)  WITH HIS GRANDSTAND RETIREMENT IN 93 - took audacity...........................

WTF is Joe Montana?

Jack Nicklaus should be in the top 5. 

Kareem belongs in top 10.

NAMED THE BEST COLLEGE BASKETBALL PLAYER EVER ON ESPN - #2 was Bill Walton.


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## ginscpy (Aug 2, 2011)

Wilt C was AN OVERRATED SMUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Article 15 (Aug 2, 2011)

Golfers aren't real athletes and should not be on any list ranking the top athletes of any era.

If you wanna make a greatest golfers list of all time have at it but please don't put those guys in the same conversation as the Jordans and Alis of the world.


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## ginscpy (Aug 2, 2011)

Article 15 said:


> Golfers aren't real athletes and should not be on any list ranking the top athletes of any era.
> 
> If you wanna make a greatest golfers list of all time have at it but please don't put those guys in the same conversation as the Jordans and Alis of the world.



THEN YOU GO OUT AND MAKE MILLIONS ON THE PGA TOUR!!!!!!!!!

(Jordan is/was overratted - AND ALI NEVER HAD A PUNCH - coulndnt breaqk glass


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## High_Gravity (Aug 2, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Article 15 said:
> 
> 
> > Golfers aren't real athletes and should not be on any list ranking the top athletes of any era.
> ...



You are a fuckin idiot, I bet you wouldn't last a milisecond in the ring with Ali, even now. Negged for being a pig fucking idiot.


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## ginscpy (Aug 2, 2011)

Hey  moron - kick the smoking..................... 

aint cool no more ...................


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## High_Gravity (Aug 2, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> Hey  moron - kick the smoking.....................
> 
> aint cool no more ...................


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## ginscpy (Aug 2, 2011)

No Way Out-  Where Richard Widmark calls Sidney Poitier the N- word....................


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## High_Gravity (Aug 2, 2011)

ginscpy said:


> No Way Out-  Where Richard Widmark calls Sidney Poitier the N- word....................



Are you trying to say something pussy?


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