# The demise of Isreal is imminent!



## Roudy (Jan 3, 2018)

Question: Does it look like Israel is winning or losing since Trump became president?  Here are some clues....

Trump Recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital and Orders U.S. Embassy to Move

Trump threatens to cut off US aid to Palestinian Authority


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jan 3, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Question: Does it look like Israel is winning or losing since Trump became president?  Here are some clues....
> 
> Trump Recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital and Orders U.S. Embassy to Move
> 
> Trump threatens to cut off US aid to Palestinian Authority



I had posted a link about the number of times the Palestinians were offered their own State including most of E. Jerusalem in “ negotiation” but of course the Pro Palestinians ignored it. 

They also get a small piece of Israel within the 67 Borders in which they are demanding FULL control, a passageway between Gaza and the W. Bank; something Israel is Not legally responsible for.
  Trump is doing the right thing: Withold aid until the Palestinians are ready to sit with Israel and NEGOTIATE


----------



## usmbguest5318 (Jan 3, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Question: Does it look like Israel is winning or losing since Trump became president?  Here are some clues....
> ...





ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Palestinians were offered their own State



Two words:  Israeli settlements.

7 Things To Know About Israeli Settlements

Israel’s settlement policy in the occupied Palestinian territory










Map of East Jerusalem in 2007 shows the separation wall (in red) and the Israeli settlements in purple on areas of the occupied West Bank that Israel annexed to Jerusalem. 
Surely you see the contrivance attendant to granting Palestinians "land of their own" that the grantor, Israel, has materially populated with people who consider themselves Israelis.


----------



## montelatici (Jan 3, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Question: Does it look like Israel is winning or losing since Trump became president?  Here are some clues....
> ...



The Palestinians were never offered their own state for all their people.  The only time they were offered a state with sovereignty, a third of their population was left under Jew rule. 

The later "offers" were simply demands that they sign an agreement to accept permanent Israeli military occupation.


----------



## Humanity (Jan 3, 2018)

Trump the isolationist.

Which ever way, Trump will have his war. By proxy or otherwise.

NK was never on the 'war table' despite Trumps bleating.

Is better to talk shit and raise tensions in the ME.

The hypocrisy is blinding.

Iran and Israel ... Trump has different rules because of religion and the colour of skin.

2018 is not starting well in a world that needs peace and stability.


----------



## admonit (Jan 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Iran and Israel ... Trump has different rules because of religion and the colour of skin.


So, what with colour of skin in Iran and Israel?


----------



## Humanity (Jan 3, 2018)

admonit said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Iran and Israel ... Trump has different rules because of religion and the colour of skin.
> ...



Clearly, to the normal mind, not very much!

We are talking about Trump here remember!


----------



## fncceo (Jan 3, 2018)

montelatici said:


> a third of their population was left under Jew rule.



Lucky them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 3, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> I had posted a link about the number of times the Palestinians were offered their own State including most of E. Jerusalem in “ negotiation” but of course the Pro Palestinians ignored it.



I steal all of your stuff and then offer to give you half of it back, you are really going to be grateful to me?  



ILOVEISRAEL said:


> They also get a small piece of Israel within the 67 Borders in which they are demanding FULL control, a passageway between Gaza and the W. Bank; something Israel is Not legally responsible for.
> Trump is doing the right thing: Withold aid until the Palestinians are ready to sit with Israel and NEGOTIATE



Trump isn't going to be withholding enough money to make a difference.


----------



## Bleipriester (Jan 3, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Question: Does it look like Israel is winning or losing since Trump became president?  Here are some clues....
> 
> Trump Recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital and Orders U.S. Embassy to Move
> 
> Trump threatens to cut off US aid to Palestinian Authority


Still whining if you ask me...

Obama-Netanyahu Rift Impedes U.S. Offer of Record Aid Deal for Israel


----------



## TheParser (Jan 3, 2018)

I am replying to the thread title that says that the demise of Israel is imminent.

I believe that its demise is *NOT* imminent.

*****

But I do believe that its continued existence cannot be taken for granted, even if it does have nuclear weapons.

*****

It is agreed by pro- and anti-Israel commentators that Israel's continued existence depends on the total support of the United States (no matter who  the president is).

We all know that the United States is changing in terms of its population profile (ethnicity, religion, etc.).

In a hundred years' time, will the people who run the States still back Israel 100%?

I read an article recently in which a Jewish-American leader said that it is imperative that Israel make friends with other countries, not only the States.

Regardless of one's opinion regarding the Israeli-Palestinian issue, I think that leader's advice is right on target.


----------



## admonit (Jan 3, 2018)

TheParser said:


> IIn a hundred years' time, will the people who run the States still back Israel 100%?


In a hundred years' time? WOW



Spoiler



One day Timur was in the mood for teasing Nasreddin Hodja.

`Hodja,’ he asked, `can you teach your donkey how to read?
`Yes I can Great Timur.’
`Come now Hodja! How can you teach a donkey to read?’
`If you give me twenty years time and 20000 gold coins, then I can teach my donkey how to read.’ the Hodja was adamant.
`But if in twenty years time, your donkey cannot read, then I will punish you most severely for trying to mock the Great Timur.’

Nasreddin Hodja and Timur agreed on the terms, the Hodja took the 20000 gold coins and left Timur’s luxurious tent. Hodja’s friends who witnessed the deal were incredulous.

`Hodja Effendi, what did you do? You know you can’t teach a donkey anything other than braying. Twenty years later Timur will have your head chopped off!’ However, Nasreddin Hodja was not worried.

`My dear fellows,’ he said calmly, `before twenty years are up, either I will die or Timur will die. Or, the donkey will die!’


----------



## ILOVEISRAEL (Jan 3, 2018)

Xelor said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



I love when “ International Law” is quoted. If the Arabs had won the ‘67 War would you be quoting “ International Law” and “ illegal settlements?” The Israelis offered the Palestinians almost everything they demanded and it still wasn’t enough. In addition, according to “ International Law” Israel is NOT obligated to create a Highway between Gaza and the W. Bank; something they agreed to do! 
    One more thing; Jordan was supposed to let Israelis have access to their Holy Sites after the 1948 War but didn’t . Israel appealed to the U.N. but of course they did nothing. Guess who else came out with a NJA at their Holy Sites. The Palestinian Authority. So much for “ freedom of religion” lol


----------



## usmbguest5318 (Jan 3, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Xelor said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...





ILOVEISRAEL said:


> If the Arabs had won the ‘67 War would you be quoting “ International Law” and “ illegal settlements?”


If frogs had wings, would I remark upon their bumping their asses when they land?  

The Arabs didn't win that war and frogs don't have wings.


----------



## TNHarley (Jan 3, 2018)

Poor poor terrorist supporters


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 3, 2018)

TheParser said:


> I am replying to the thread title that says that the demise of Israel is imminent.
> 
> I believe that its demise is *NOT* imminent.
> 
> ...


It has been in the news, and that Jewish leader and you seem to have missed the number of countries, besides the US, Israel has friendship and good relationships with.

Don't worry, Israel, which is one of the wealthiest and smartest countries in the world will still be around in 1000 years.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 3, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > I had posted a link about the number of times the Palestinians were offered their own State including most of E. Jerusalem in “ negotiation” but of course the Pro Palestinians ignored it.
> ...


US is the biggest donor country to the Palestinian terrorists.  Good news is if Trump follows through, (which he has a tendency to) we will no longer be funding a bunch of America hating, antisemitic, PaliNazi Islamo-terrorists.  The 800 million stays here where we can spend it our own people and national security.  That should make you happy!


----------



## Roudy (Jan 3, 2018)

TheParser said:


> I am replying to the thread title that says that the demise of Israel is imminent.
> 
> I believe that its demise is *NOT* imminent.
> 
> ...


It's what we hear daily from the Palestinian terrorist worshippers and antisemites, that Israel is about to get destroyed, any day now.  They conjure up different delusional scenarios and mentally masturbate to them five times a day. Meanwhile things keep getting worse for the Palestinians and better for the Israelis. Winning!


----------



## Roudy (Jan 3, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Question: Does it look like Israel is winning or losing since Trump became president?  Here are some clues....
> ...


Exactly.  We should have much better things to do with the 800 million a year than to send it to people who burn our flags, hate our country, and are led by terrorists.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 3, 2018)

Humanity said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


Iranians have more white skinned people than Israelis, you ignoramus.

Iran stands for land of the Aryans.


----------



## montelatici (Jan 3, 2018)

ILOVEISRAEL said:


> Xelor said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



The Israelis offered the Palestinians permament military occupation and wanted the Palestinians to agree to it in order to have a state in name only, with no sovreignty with continued Israeli rule and control.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 3, 2018)

montelatici said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Xelor said:
> ...


Monte,

That is exactly what belligerent people deserve as they insist in the war they started 100 years against Jews and any future Jewish State.

Who in their right mind would give such violent people the right to continue to fire rockets and continue to attack Israelis.......

Oh, yes, the Muslim/Christian dominated UN and other organizations like it.....

Keep trying...


----------



## Roudy (Jan 3, 2018)

Cheese with your whine?

Admit it, things are not going well for the Palestinians. it would be highly advantageous for the so called "Palestinian people", if their terrorist corrupt leadership sits down and cuts a deal with the Israelis now. They will get a lot less if they do it later where all their leverage will be gone.  That's how everything works. 

"The Art of the Deal".


----------



## montelatici (Jan 3, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...



The inhabitants of Palestine had every right to violently resist invasion and colonization by the Jews. In what world do native inhabitants peacefully accept colonization and foreign rule?


----------



## montelatici (Jan 3, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Cheese with your whine?
> 
> Admit it, things are not going well for the Palestinians. it would be highly advantageous for the so called "Palestinian people", if their terrorist corrupt leadership sits down and cuts a deal with the Israelis now. They will get a lot less if they do it later where all their leverage will be gone.  That's how everything works.
> 
> "The Art of the Deal".



There will be no deal and no Palestinian state.  The Jews will have to rule and control a population larger than their own in an Apartheid state where only a minority of the non-Jew inhabitants will be allowed to vote.  Sound familiar?  How long will that last.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 3, 2018)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Cheese with your whine?
> ...


It will last as long as Arab countries have oil.

Once the oil is gone and the EU and USA money is also gone.....
reality will sink in to the Arab population who will finally realize that their Arab leaders are money mongers and have chosen to let them die for a piece of land which never belonged to them.

Islam and the Arabs are not the Indigenous native inhabitants of the ancient land of Canaan, later known as Israel.

Johnny come lately does not get to make the rules.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 3, 2018)

All this baloney, false comparisons and lies didn't work in the past but the delusional antisemites think maybe if they repeat a thousand more times it's going to make a difference.  

As we can see, things have gone from bad to much worse for the Palestinians. The terrorist appeasing Jew haters and their enablers in the US have been taken out, Arab states that were steadfast enemies of Israel and supported Palestinian terrorism are now friends with Israel, Iran - Israel's greatest foe is now in the beginning stages of a regime change, I'd say the shit has totally hit the Palestinian fan.


----------



## montelatici (Jan 3, 2018)

With the end of the two state solution, the Israeli Jews have shot themselves in the foot.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 3, 2018)

montelatici said:


> With the end of the two state solution, the Israeli Jews have shot themselves in the foot.


Your delusion, as always.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 3, 2018)

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Arab leaders are money mongers and have chosen to let them die for a piece of land which never belong to them.
> ...


Delusional # 2


----------



## Roudy (Jan 3, 2018)

montelatici said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Cheese with your whine?
> ...


Yada yada yada.  Same rhetoric different day.  Palestinian terrorist leaders are corrupt thieves.  Now that the US has threatened to cut off funding most of which was going into their own pockets and secret bank accounts as usual, they will come to the table and deal. If not then as the Jewish population grows there, Israel will eventually annex the West Bank while Egypt and Jordan will annex Gaza and certain areas of the West Bank that Israel didn't annex.  The US will then send the Jordanians and Egyptians the same money it now sends to the Palestinians as a supplement for governing those areas. 

The clock is ticking.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 3, 2018)

Xelor said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Many problems with "raw" maps of settlements. One being that Israel is functionally responsible for security in those areas. Because the PA is no longer functional or capable of doing much of anything. So -- MANY of areas posted as Israeli "settlements" are actually Mil. Police bases and infrastructure.  Second problem is many of those "settlements" are Jewish neighborhoods that PREDATE the creation of Israel.


----------



## abi (Jan 3, 2018)

flacaltenn said:


> Many problems with "raw" maps of settlements. One being that Israel is functionally responsible for security in those areas. Because the PA is no longer functional or capable of doing much of anything. So -- MANY of areas posted as Israeli "settlements" are actually Mil. Police bases and infrastructure. Second problem is many of those "settlements" are Jewish neighborhoods that PREDATE the creation of Israel.


BUT, Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 3, 2018)

abi said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Many problems with "raw" maps of settlements. One being that Israel is functionally responsible for security in those areas. Because the PA is no longer functional or capable of doing much of anything. So -- MANY of areas posted as Israeli "settlements" are actually Mil. Police bases and infrastructure. Second problem is many of those "settlements" are Jewish neighborhoods that PREDATE the creation of Israel.
> ...


Yawn?
How come the Arabs at the UN don’t bring up the bullshit that you bring up?
Because you’re tugging at bullshit all over the Internet.


----------



## abi (Jan 3, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Islam and the Arabs are not the Indigenous native inhabitants of the ancient land of Canaan, later known as Israel.


I thought we were *not doing ancient genealogy in this thread,
flacaltenn?*


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 3, 2018)

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Islam and the Arabs are not the Indigenous native inhabitants of the ancient land of Canaan, later known as Israel.
> ...


The Jews came back, were attacked and kicked ass.
Cry all you want.


----------



## abi (Jan 3, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...


I provided links to the science that proves your narrative false. They were deleted.

When the narrative is destroyed, change it, not the facts.


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 3, 2018)

abi said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > abi said:
> ...


Neither one of has expertise in the field, though your expertise is in Jew hatred.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 3, 2018)

Yes, I Israel is just terrible. I am sure within a couple of years the world will insist that the Nation of Israel dissolve and all the Zionists/Jews will be forced out to some sort of final solution, right?


----------



## Roudy (Jan 3, 2018)

Has anybody wondered what would happen if Trump actually followed through and did cut US funding to the Palestinians.  On second thought, the leadership is too corrupt and greedy to let it happen.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 4, 2018)

Roudy said:


> US is the biggest donor country to the Palestinian terrorists. Good news is if Trump follows through, (which he has a tendency to) we will no longer be funding a bunch of America hating, antisemitic, PaliNazi Islamo-terrorists. The 800 million stays here where we can spend it our own people and national security. That should make you happy!



Not really.  The only reason we pay that 800 Million is to keep them playing nice with the Zionists.  same reason we pay Egypt and Jordan. 

Cut off the funds, they have no reason to play nice with them... and the Jews havent' won a war since 1967.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 4, 2018)

Yes I agree, let's cut off the funds. The Saudis aren't getting money from the US, and yet they too have turned their backs.  Like I said the only country that has been sending anything is Iran and they have their backs against the wall too now.  The Palis are shit out of luck.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...


More Israeli bullshit, of course.

*The Hundred Year War in Palestine*

**


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 5, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


[ Your endless heroes: PLO members and Nazi Sympathizers.  He wants the imminent end to Israel......as so do you (wait....Israel does not exist as you often say.... If only you and your heroes would choose to live in peace with Israel and the Jewish People........(no chance) And one thing both of you have in common.......lazyness ]

Rashid Khalidi Worries that Jews Will ‘Infest’ the Trump Administration

Rashid Khalidi, Campus Watch & Middle East Studies – Jewish Policy Center

---------------
But Mr. Khalidi is not someone to be bothered by the facts. Such is his disregard for the historical truth that he not only shuns the millions of documents declassified during the past decades by Israeli, Western, and United Nations archives, but also makes no effort to tap into the wealth of Arab and Palestinian documentation on the 1948 war, relying instead on secondary sources that add little to what is already known on the subject.

In an attempt to justify this extraordinary feat of intellectual laziness, Mr. Khalidi provides a number of convoluted and contradictory excuses. He bemoans the lack of a "massive, central, unified [Palestinian] documentary base" yet fails to explain why this should have prevented the utilization of the "plethora of scattered archival and other documentary sources that can be used to piece together the Palestinian side of what happened in 1948." He adamantly refuses "to read the history of the losers in the records of the victors, useful though such an exercise would be" yet readily endorses the dubious findings of "revisionist" Israeli historians, allegedly based on these very same "records of the victors." He acknowledges that "the story of how the Palestinians acted and reacted throughout three decades of British control of Palestine have been told at length" yet fails to explain how this corresponds to his description of Palestinian history as "a hidden history:" the main justification for writing the book.

The Iron Illusions of Rashid Khalidi - The New York Sun


So... how soon is the imminent demise of Israel about to happen ???


----------



## Roudy (Jan 5, 2018)

Let's recap, the US announces that it will be moving its embassy to Jerusalem, right after that the US threatens to cut off funding to the Palestinians...is Israel winning or losing?  Time's up, place your bets everybody!


----------



## Slyhunter (Jan 5, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > I had posted a link about the number of times the Palestinians were offered their own State including most of E. Jerusalem in “ negotiation” but of course the Pro Palestinians ignored it.
> ...


Its time to take the Israelites land back from the Arabs.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 5, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Yes I agree, let's cut off the funds. The Saudis aren't getting money from the US, and yet they too have turned their backs. Like I said the only country that has been sending anything is Iran and they have their backs against the wall too now. The Palis are shit out of luck.



But they'll still hate the Zionists, and if they are hungry, they'll probably be more desperate... 

But you keep on thinking you can bully these people into loving you.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 5, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> Its time to take the Israelites land back from the Arabs.



the "Israelites" vanished thousands of years ago, and good riddance. 

Their stupid religion has hung around, unfortunately.  

Ah, for the happy day when we take the world back from Religion.


----------



## admonit (Jan 5, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I agree, let's cut off the funds. The Saudis aren't getting money from the US, and yet they too have turned their backs. Like I said the only country that has been sending anything is Iran and they have their backs against the wall too now. The Palis are shit out of luck.
> ...


When Palestinians are hungry they ask work permission in Israel. Bread should be earned.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 5, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Let's recap, the US announces that it will be moving its embassy to Jerusalem, right after that the US threatens to cut off funding to the Palestinians...is Israel winning or losing?  Time's up, place your bets everybody!


*Aid to PA is aid to Israel*
Over the last decade, US aid to the Palestinian Authority has averaged around $400 million a year – and primarily benefits Israel by reinforcing the status quo of occupation.

The aid was boosted after the US-backed coup against the elected Hamas-led PA government in 2007 led to the geographic and factional split between the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

While Hamas was isolated in a besieged Gaza, the US increased funding for the Ramallah-based PA dominated by Abbas and his Fatah faction.

According to the Congressional Research Service, this funding was “primarily in direct support of the PA’s security, governance, development and reform programs in the West Bank under Abbas” and intended “in part to counter Hamas.”

All of this was toward the ultimate goal of boosting the PA as an occupation subcontractor – or as the Congressional Research Service puts it using American official euphemisms, the aid is aimed at “promoting the prevention or mitigation of terrorism against Israel.”

The PA’s primary role in suppressing Palestinian resistance to occupation is called “security coordination” – a form of collaboration almost universally opposed by Palestinians, but which Abbas has described as “sacred.”

What happens if Trump does stop aid to Palestinians?


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 5, 2018)

Security coordination is so people on the West Bank--both Israeli and Palestinian --can have some semblance of normalcy and tranquility in their lives, instead of living in a constant state of agitation.  Many ppl who live in America are more Palestinian than the Palestinians or more Israeli than than the Israelis, and these "armchair warriors" would like the region to be in a constant state of turmoil.  Security or peace would mean "surrender" on either side.


----------



## abi (Jan 5, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Question: Does it look like Israel is winning or losing since Trump became president?  Here are some clues....
> 
> Trump Recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital and Orders U.S. Embassy to Move
> 
> Trump threatens to cut off US aid to Palestinian Authority


176-7! The world just handed Israel another humiliating defeat at the United Nations.

Winning?


----------



## Roudy (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I agree, let's cut off the funds. The Saudis aren't getting money from the US, and yet they too have turned their backs. Like I said the only country that has been sending anything is Iran and they have their backs against the wall too now. The Palis are shit out of luck.
> ...


Loving us?  Who the fuck cares if they love us or not.  The days where people are falling for "don't make them hate us more" are over.  There's a new sheriff in town, didn't you hear?  One that understands the language these IslamoNazi animals speak.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Question: Does it look like Israel is winning or losing since Trump became president?  Here are some clues....
> ...


And yet the embassy will still be built in Jerusalem, and the US will be cutting of funding to the Palestinians.  Reality time, as opposed to the usual meaningless inconsequential bullshit from the UN.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 6, 2018)

admonit said:


> When Palestinians are hungry they ask work permission in Israel. Bread should be earned.



yes, they should beg to get fed from land that was stolen from them.  

Totally. 

And the Jews wonder why people hate them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 6, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Loving us? Who the fuck cares if they love us or not. The days where people are falling for "don't make them hate us more" are over. There's a new sheriff in town, didn't you hear? One that understands the language these IslamoNazi animals speak.



Okay, you see, just because you have a buffoon the rest of the world laughs at in the US - until we can impeach him, of course- doesn't solve the Zionist Entity's underlying problem. 

It's an apartheid state most of the world shuns and despises.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 6, 2018)

Roudy said:


> And yet the embassy will still be built in Jerusalem, and the US will be cutting of funding to the Palestinians. Reality time, as opposed to the usual meaningless inconsequential bullshit from the UN.



Reality time... the next president will cancel these plans long before the foundation gets laid.


----------



## admonit (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > When Palestinians are hungry they ask work permission in Israel. Bread should be earned.
> ...


Losers always have an excuse.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 6, 2018)

admonit said:


> Losers always have an excuse.



I'm sure Hitler said the same thing about the folks who went to Dachau...


----------



## admonit (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > Losers always have an excuse.
> ...


I'm sure you perfectly know what Hitler said.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 6, 2018)

admonit said:


> I'm sure you perfectly know what Hitler said.



The same things the Zionists say when they rationalize what they are doing to the Palestinians.  

"We need Living Space!  It's God's Will!!!"


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure you perfectly know what Hitler said.
> ...


Which is exactly why Israel has given back the Sinai, all of Gaza and there are Millions of Arabs, Christians and Muslims, living in Israel.
And give Palestinians jobs, health care, and education.

Somehow, your your rationale is irrational.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 6, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Which is exactly why Israel has given back the Sinai, all of Gaza and there are Millions of Arabs, Christians and Muslims, living in Israel.
> And give Palestinians jobs, health care, and education.
> 
> Somehow, your your rationale is irrational.



Living under an occupation of people who stole your land isn't anything to be happy about.  

Look, guy, I heard the same arguments made about Whites in South Africa 40 years ago. Those were pretty lame, too.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Which is exactly why Israel has given back the Sinai, all of Gaza and there are Millions of Arabs, Christians and Muslims, living in Israel.
> ...


Amazing how the South Africans are aware that the Jewish People are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, the there is NO Apartheid in Israel, and they have not stolen anything from anyone, but legally obtained the right to recreate their Nation ON their ancient homeland, which happens NOT to be the ancient homeland of the Palestinian Arabs.

No argument from me as to who the indigenous people of the Land of Israel are.  Call them Palestinian Jews or just Israelis.  They are the rightful owners of the land encompassing the WHOLE mandate for Palestine which included TransJordan.

That the Jews have only ended up with less than 20 % of their original land, and are willing to negotiate for giving up IF NECESSARY to achieve peace with the Palestinians as they did with Egypt and Jordan.........there is no argument about that either.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 6, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Amazing how the South Africans are aware that the Jewish People are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, the there is NO Apartheid in Israel, and they have not stolen anything from anyone, but legally obtained the right to recreate their Nation ON their ancient homeland, which happens NOT to be the ancient homeland of the Palestinian Arabs.



okay, buddy, you keep using the "But the Magic Pixie in the Sky promised me this land" as an excuse... but there is no God.  Never was.  



Sixties Fan said:


> That the Jews have only ended up with less than 20 % of their original land, and are willing to negotiate for giving up IF NECESSARY to achieve peace with the Palestinians as they did with Egypt and Jordan.........there is no argument about that either.



Or they can get pushed into the sea and solve everyone's problem.


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing how the South Africans are aware that the Jewish People are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, the there is NO Apartheid in Israel, and they have not stolen anything from anyone, but legally obtained the right to recreate their Nation ON their ancient homeland, which happens NOT to be the ancient homeland of the Palestinian Arabs.
> ...


Yeah, the God gave us others' land argument is the most bottom of the barrel argument of all the zionist idiocy we see here.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing how the South Africans are aware that the Jewish People are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, the there is NO Apartheid in Israel, and they have not stolen anything from anyone, but legally obtained the right to recreate their Nation ON their ancient homeland, which happens NOT to be the ancient homeland of the Palestinian Arabs.
> ...


How many indigenous people have you been able to make them agree with you that their ancient homeland is not important to them, and that their gods had nothing to do with where they ended up to create the nations and cultures which evolved out of them being on that land, working it, defending it, etc  ?

Thank you for wishing all Jews dead.  Which is exactly why they are now sovereign of their own recreated State, ON their ancient homeland, and they do NOT owe anyone ANYTHING.

Am Israel Chai


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...


That conclusion is YOUR idiocy.

Thanks for playing


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...


Don't they owe the Palestinians their right of return and the self-determination that the zionists cling so tightly to?


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Please, in your own words can you explain the God gave us this land argument?


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Absolutely NOT.

It is not Arabia.  Arab Palestinians have every right of return to the Arabian Peninsula.  Let them have it.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > abi said:
> ...


You do not have an argument there.  You have endless BS attempting to delegitimize the Jewish People/Nation's right to their ancient Homeland.

So, how soon ( for the sake of what this thread is about) do you give Israel to continue its existence ?
Next month?
In the Summer?
Next Winter?
5 years?
10 Years?
15 Years?
20 Years?
100 years?


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> abi said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...


Then you know that the God gave us this land argument is the dumbest one of all?


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > abi said:
> ...


You are off topic and refuse to discuss the topic of this thread.

Thanks for playing


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> You are off topic and refuse to discuss the topic of this thread.
> 
> Thanks for playing


Israel's demise is because of the ridiculousness of the God gave us this land argument.

Sorry, I thought you were following along.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 6, 2018)

Xelor said:


> ILOVEISRAEL said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



*Two words: Israeli settlements.
*
I guess the Pallies should come to an agreement, while they have any possibility of land left.
Two words: Hurry Hurry!


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > You are off topic and refuse to discuss the topic of this thread.
> ...


Your understanding of the word imminent seems to be the problem.
The thread says nothing about a god, two gods, etc being responsible for Israel remaining in existence or coming to an end.

Try English comprehension, sometimes it works


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 6, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Xelor said:
> 
> 
> > ILOVEISRAEL said:
> ...


The Pallis have plenty of land.  Gaza plus Areas A and B.  Plus TransJordan, now Jordan.

That is about 80 % of the original Jewish Homeland.


----------



## PredFan (Jan 6, 2018)

It’s absurd that the US gives those Palestinian terrorists any money at all.


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

PredFan said:


> It’s absurd that the US gives those Palestinian terrorists any money at all.


Go research how much money we send Palestine and how much we send Israel.

As Americans are homeless and starving, children especially, we send billions to Israel and what do we get? Hatred from the rest of the world?


----------



## PredFan (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > It’s absurd that the US gives those Palestinian terrorists any money at all.
> ...



I don’t give a shit. If we give the Palestinian terrorists one cent, it’s too much.


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

PredFan said:


> I don’t give a shit. If we give the Palestinian terrorists one cent, it’s too much.


How can you not care about children starving on the streets and how negatively we are seen by the world outside of zionism?


----------



## PredFan (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t give a shit. If we give the Palestinian terrorists one cent, it’s too much.
> ...



They are terrorists, you don’t give money to terrorists, even if they are starving.


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

PredFan said:


> They are terrorists, you don’t give money to terrorists, even if they are starving.


The zionists are terrorists too; that does not seem to matter.


----------



## PredFan (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > They are terrorists, you don’t give money to terrorists, even if they are starving.
> ...



It’s bull shit. Bull shit doesn’t matter.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 6, 2018)

Please get back to the topic of the thread.

Just how is Israel about to see its demise any day now?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t give a shit. If we give the Palestinian terrorists one cent, it’s too much.
> ...



*How can you not care about children starving on the streets
*
If the Muzzies spent less on tunnels and rockets, they could feed those kids.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > And yet the embassy will still be built in Jerusalem, and the US will be cutting of funding to the Palestinians. Reality time, as opposed to the usual meaningless inconsequential bullshit from the UN.
> ...


More mental masturbation topics for you guys to fantasize about.  You forget that both the Democratic and republican party and especially the American public are very pro Israel.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > Losers always have an excuse.
> ...


IslamoNazism much?


----------



## Roudy (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...


Tell that to the Muslims who are killing non Muslims are over the middle east and the world?


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 6, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Look, guy, I heard the same arguments made about Whites in South Africa 40 years ago. Those were pretty lame, too.



Look pal, I've been alive almost as long as the Nation of Israel has existed. During that time the Israelis have tried to get the Palestinians to live along side them in peace.

All they've gotten in return was murdered Olympic athletes, plane hijackings, suicide bombers etc. They gave back Gaza in an attempt for peace.

All they got out of that was a barrage of mortar and rocket fire.

And all I've seen out of the 'Palestinians', who where created during my lifetime is the use of their civilian population as disposable human beings in an attempt to tell half truths and deny historical events 

Fuck it. They had better get their shit together fast because the clock is now ticking.

Tick tock.


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

teddyearp, that is terribly one-sided and patently unfair.

You can't steal a peoples' homeland and then claim to have tried to get the Palestinians to live along side them in peace. 

You can't complain about terrorists, when your own terrorism far surpasses that of your enemy.

And honestly believing that God gave land to anyone is silly.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 6, 2018)

abi, you calling me one sided is hilarious!

You need to brush up on your history. But here I reckon I'm getting off topic and I am SURE you will get your pet mod to delete this, or at least attempt to.

The return of the Jews to their ancient homeland was at one time heralded by almost the whole world. At one time even the Arabs were in favor of it with one of the agreements made near WWI.

But after the Arabs secured their own independent states of Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, and Jordan from the aftermath of WWI, then the mufti of Jerusalem decided to stir them up more and remind the Muslims that they should hate the Jews. And that was the beginning of terrorism in that region.

And Arab terrorism continues to this day.

So go ahead and hit the report button. Again.


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> The return of the Jews to their ancient homeland was at one time heralded by almost the whole world.


No. Just crazy, Teddy.



teddyearp said:


> And Arab terrorism continues to this day.


We need to put the rocket and mortar attacks against Israel in perspective.

You terror card expired long ago.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 6, 2018)

The only one who is crazy here is YOU.

When you reply to posts, you almost always omit certain parts because to address them directly destroys your fictional story.

The Balfour agreement was pretty much welcomed by the whole world at that TIME. The whole world was keen on letting the Jews (and yes, Jews from Europe who had never been there) return to their ancient homeland. There was even an agreement with the Arabs that welcomed the Jews back. And before you ask, use Google. The link had been posted on this board multiple times.

But let me go back just about eight years before.  Now I know why my thread about the Pasha of the ottoman empire dragging said empire into WWI never got much traction.

Because that single fact blows the whole argument out of the water! The pasha was a Muslim Arab. If he had not drug the ottoman empire into WWI, then we wouldn't be here.

But we are. And the fault is fully laid upon the feet of an Arab for ALL the events that have us where we are now.

Now go and hit up your pet mod and hit the report button. Again.


----------



## abi (Jan 6, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> The Balfour agreement was pretty much welcomed by the whole world at that TIME.


No. Not even close.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 6, 2018)

Hahaha! It took you less time to reply than it took me to compose that post.

Very telling. Very much so.

Thanks for proving that you do not read a whole post and only address a tiny part.  But that is all you do here and have always done.

You need to get out of your little box that you have selectively put yourself into, little girl.

I'll just give you one hint. Oil.

Now go hit up your pet mod and report my post.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 6, 2018)

abi said:


> And honestly believing that God gave land to anyone is silly.


Please show me where I said that.

or get your pet mod to delete another one of my (and other's) post.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 7, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> How many indigenous people have you been able to make them agree with you that their ancient homeland is not important to them, and that their gods had nothing to do with where they ended up to create the nations and cultures which evolved out of them being on that land, working it, defending it, etc ?
> 
> Thank you for wishing all Jews dead. Which is exactly why they are now sovereign of their own recreated State, ON their ancient homeland, and they do NOT owe anyone ANYTHING



I think as soon as Americans figure out Jesus isn't coming back and stop funding your religious theme park, you guys are going to have some real problems.  

six million pairs of water wings?  Works for me.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 7, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> *Two words: Israeli settlements.
> *
> I guess the Pallies should come to an agreement, while they have any possibility of land left.
> Two words: Hurry Hurry!



Except there's a big problem with that.  The Zionists aren't breeding as fast as the Palestinians are.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 7, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> Look pal, I've been alive almost as long as the Nation of Israel has existed. During that time the Israelis have tried to get the Palestinians to live along side them in peace.
> 
> All they've gotten in return was murdered Olympic athletes, plane hijackings, suicide bombers etc. They gave back Gaza in an attempt for peace.



Here how the Zionists "get peace". 

Go back to Europe where you came from. 

That's how you get peace.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Look pal, I've been alive almost as long as the Nation of Israel has existed. During that time the Israelis have tried to get the Palestinians to live along side them in peace.
> ...




Very realistic.  More than half the ppl from Israel are from Middle Eastern origin anyway.  And, after several generations, the ppl  think of themselves as Israeli.  It's funny that when the Jews lived in Europe, they weren't thought of as European, and were subject to pogroms over there.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Look pal, I've been alive almost as long as the Nation of Israel has existed. During that time the Israelis have tried to get the Palestinians to live along side them in peace.
> ...


The Jews moved to Europe.  They lived in Europe for centuries.
They have always returned to their ancient land.
Which is no different than what they did in the late 19th century.

What percentage of Jews who lived in Europe are indigenous Europeans?  Very low.

What percentage of Jews who lived in Mesopotamia, Iran, etc are indigenous of those places and not ancient Canaan?  Very low.

What percentage of Arabs who now live all over the world is not from the Arabian Peninsula, including the Palestinians?  Very low.

Who needs to return to their ancient homeland? 

Guess who? 

Only hatred for Jews, learned from Christian and Muslim sources would make someone like you repeat endlessly all the nonsense you just repeated in all of your posts.

So, how eminent is the demise of Israel based on all of the hatred for Jews you and others are capable of mustering?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 7, 2018)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Very realistic. More than half the ppl from Israel are from Middle Eastern origin anyway. And, after several generations, the ppl think of themselves as Israeli. It's funny that when the Jews lived in Europe, they weren't thought of as European, and were subject to pogroms over there.



Yes, the Jews are very good at wearing out their welcome no matter where they go.  I'm sure if we put the new Zionist State in Tibet, the Buddhists would want to kill them after a few years.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 7, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> The Jews moved to Europe. They lived in Europe for centuries.
> They have always returned to their ancient land.
> Which is no different than what they did in the late 19th century.



Except that very few of them did in the 19th century.  In fact, by 1890, there were less than 43K Jews living in Palestine (compared to 57K Christians and 432K Muslims.  

And they weren't too keen to move there after the British took over at the end of WWI. It wasn't until after WWII, they all wanted to move there.  

The LIE of Zionism is "A land without a people for a people without a land."  There were people on that land.  



Sixties Fan said:


> Only hatred for Jews, learned from Christian and Muslim sources would make someone like you repeat endlessly all the nonsense you just repeated in all of your posts.
> 
> So, how eminent is the demise of Israel based on all of the hatred for Jews you and others are capable of mustering?



Oh, the Demise of Israel would be a wonderful thing.  

It will finally get it across to the stupids that there is no magic man in the sky who has a favorite people.  

Of course, they should have gotten this message during WWII. There is no God, you are not his favorite. 

My hatred is for religion,and this is religious stupidity at its worst.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > The Jews moved to Europe. They lived in Europe for centuries.
> ...


There seems to be a magic man in your brain which insists that the reason for all of your problems, mental, physical, economical and educational derives from the Jews and the fact that the Jews had the guts to go get legally back some of their ancient homeland, which they are proudly defending and will continue to protect for the next 10,000 years.

Also the fact that unlike you, Jews do not put the burden of their problems on others.

I fear, Joe, that you are going to die a very miserable person, because what is the most important  event in history for you......the end of the existence of all Jews......is never going to happen.

There is no magic man in the sky, but there is an evil man right inside you who wishes a whole group of people dead and gone because of the things the magic man in your mind has been telling you all of your life.

When hatred comes from ignorance and all the magic people who have been telling you all of these magic things about the Jewish People, which are supposed to make your life and the world's better.....because you do not hate Christianity, nor Islam, nor Buddhism, nor Hinduism, nor..........no, you do not hate religion at all....  you hate your inability to make any difference in this world.

Well....

Jews have been making a great and productive difference in the world. Always.

They are not at fault if people who have magic people talking in their heads cannot tell those magic people to go away and make sense of what is really happening in the world.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > *Two words: Israeli settlements.
> ...



They can breed as fast as they want, in an ever shrinking area.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 7, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


The area is not shrinking for the Arabs.  They still have all of Gaza and all of Areas A and B in Judea and Samaria.  Plus, there are 300,000 Arabs living in Area C.

It is a delusion to think that the Israeli Jews are being outnumbered by the Arabs.   False information too many Jew haters love to hang on to.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Look pal, I've been alive almost as long as the Nation of Israel has existed. During that time the Israelis have tried to get the Palestinians to live along side them in peace.
> ...



The hypocrisy of certain Americans continues to astound me.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Look pal, I've been alive almost as long as the Nation of Israel has existed. During that time the Israelis have tried to get the Palestinians to live along side them in peace.
> ...


Is this your way of deflecting from the fact that Israelis are winning big league, and your side has been in a 70 year losing streak?  Fatwa!


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 7, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> There seems to be a magic man in your brain which insists that the reason for all of your problems, mental, physical, economical and educational derives from the Jews and the fact that the Jews had the guts to go get legally back some of their ancient homeland, which they are proudly defending and will continue to protect for the next 10,000 years.



The Zionist Entity will be gone in 50 years.  Demographics is not their friend. 



Sixties Fan said:


> I fear, Joe, that you are going to die a very miserable person, because what is the most important event in history for you......the end of the existence of all Jews......is never going to happen.



Sure it is.  Probably not in my lifetime, but definitely at some point. The Zionist Entity will go the way of the Crusader states. 



Sixties Fan said:


> When hatred comes from ignorance and all the magic people who have been telling you all of these magic things about the Jewish People, which are supposed to make your life and the world's better....._*because you do not hate Christianity*_, nor Islam, nor Buddhism, nor Hinduism, nor..........no, you do not hate religion at all.... you hate your inability to make any difference in this world.



You obviously haven't seen the threads where I've ripped on Evangelicals, Catholics (brought up Catholic and really hate those bastards) and Mormons (Spent six weeks with Mormons and man, are they fucking creepy. 

End of the day, most of us make any difference in the world in any major way.  The ones who do are rarely remembered fondly.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 7, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Is this your way of deflecting from the fact that Israelis are winning big league, and your side has been in a 70 year losing streak? Fatwa!



The Jews haven't won a war against the Arabs without America bailing them out since 1967.  



Shusha said:


> The hypocrisy of certain Americans continues to astound me.



No Hypocrisy at all. Most Americans admit what we did to the indigenous people of this country was wrong.  

Of course, I'm 1/8th Cherokee, so some of my ancestors were on the receiving end.  I'm also half German and my ancestors on that side had nothing to do with it.  



Sixties Fan said:


> The area is not shrinking for the Arabs. They still have all of Gaza and all of Areas A and B in Judea and Samaria. Plus, there are 300,000 Arabs living in Area C.
> 
> It is a delusion to think that the Israeli Jews are being outnumbered by the Arabs. False information too many Jew haters love to hang on to.



Reality check- "Homelands" didn't work for Apartheid South Africa and it won't work for Apartheid Israel.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Is this your way of deflecting from the fact that Israelis are winning big league, and your side has been in a 70 year losing streak? Fatwa!
> ...


Reality check, you need to brush up in your history...Israel won all its major wars, including the 1967 war without any help from the US.  US became close allies with Israel only for US national security purposes, when it realized that the Arab states attacking Israel were in essence Soviet client states, and the entire region was in danger of being overtaken by Soviet proxy states.    

That is why incompetent, inept Muslim cowards now do not fight in armies and have resorted to terrorism and targeting of innocent civilians, not only in Israel, but all over the world.

But if you want to jerk off for the next 50 years to Israel's demise, you have my permission, Joehammad.

Winning!


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 7, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Reality check, you need to brush up in your history...Israel won all its major wars, including the 1967 war without any help from the US.



Not really. 

Let's roll that beautiful bean footage, shall we. 

1973. Israel was getting knocked on its ass until Nixon shifted a bunch of tanks from Europe to them. 
1982 Israel got bogged down in Lebanon until the US had to negotiate a peace deal for them. 
1991 Iraq hit Israel with SCUDs with impunity.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 7, 2018)

Roudy said:


> That is why incompetent, inept Muslim cowards now do not fight in armies and have resorted to terrorism and targeting of innocent civilians, not only in Israel, but all over the world.



Yawn... scary terrorists.   Stop pretending your problem is my problem. It isn't.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 7, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > There seems to be a magic man in your brain which insists that the reason for all of your problems, mental, physical, economical and educational derives from the Jews and the fact that the Jews had the guts to go get legally back some of their ancient homeland, which they are proudly defending and will continue to protect for the next 10,000 years.
> ...


"The Zionist Entity will be gone in 50 years.  Demographics is not their friend."

Keep up the nice dream.  The reality will kill you.

"Sure it is.  Probably not in my lifetime, but definitely at some point. The Zionist Entity will go the way of the Crusader states."

The Crusaders were not indigenous of the Land of Israel.  The Jews, aka Zionists, are.
And they are not going anywhere 

And it is not an "Entity", it is a Nation.
It has been a Nation for the past 3500 years.

And finally, so happy I do not have to see you "rip into" anyone who is of the Christian or any other religion because you feel so superior and above them and you, unlike them, would not EVER mistreat or demean, or anything else, Christianity and Islam have done for the past 1700 years to those in their way to conquering the world.

You go ahead and be happy that not many people are on those threads to read your sense of superiority.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 8, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Reality check, you need to brush up in your history...Israel won all its major wars, including the 1967 war without any help from the US.
> ...


Ha ha ha...welcome to IslamNazi fantasy Island. Look masta, ze plane, ze plane!  Must piss you guys off that Israel continues to prosper and win so much.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 8, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...


"Zionist entity"?  Ha ha ha but isn't that what the Islamists in Iran and other IslamoNazi terrorist groups call Israel?  They bray like a wild donkey  facing the moon, meanwhile, Israel keeps winning and chugging along.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 8, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> The Crusaders were not indigenous of the Land of Israel. The Jews, aka Zionists, are.



Um, no, A Jew named Goldstein from Poland is not "indigenous' to Palestine. 



Sixties Fan said:


> And finally, so happy I do not have to see you "rip into" anyone who is of the Christian or any other religion because you feel so superior and above them and you, unlike them, would not EVER mistreat or demean, or anything else, Christianity and Islam have done for the past 1700 years to those in their way to conquering the world.



I feel superior because I don't believe in Imaginary Fairies in the Sky and control my behavior accordingly.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 8, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > The Crusaders were not indigenous of the Land of Israel. The Jews, aka Zionists, are.
> ...


You missed where Goldstein's ancestors were indigenous of the land of Israel, and being a descendant of them, it makes him indigenous as well.

You are confusing Indigenous with being born in a place.

The Jews who were expelled from Spain in 1492 were not indigenous of Spain, they were indigenous of the land of Israel.

The Jews murdered in Germany, Poland and other countries in Europe were not indigenous of Germany, Poland, France, etc.
They were indigenous of the Land of Israel.

The 500 First Nations of America are Indigenous of the lands they came from.  Which is why they are called Native Americans by some, but prefer to be called First Nations which is what they were.
There first.

Just as the Jews were THERE first on the land of Israel as a Nation. The only Nation to ever be acknowledged on that land for the past 3000 years since King David founded the Kingdom of Israel.
------------
Absolutely NO ONE has ever asked you to believe in gods, angels or anything else.

But you are here imposing your belief and right to not believe in them on others.

Whether there actually are gods and angels and any other king of spirit, it does not matter.

What matters is that the Jewish people ARE the unquestionable Indigenous people of the land of Israel, and they have legally acquired sovereignty over a very small piece of their ancient land, and they are going to continue to live in it in peace with some of the Arab Muslim invaders, and possibly at war with other Arab Muslim invaders who conquered all of that land after the 7th century.

The Muslim invaders do not get to keep the land in perpetuity, simply because some Muslims say so.

The same is true to the Turkish, German, Japanese, etc  invaders as shown post WWI.  They lost the war, they lost the land.
That is how wars work.

To the winner go the spoils.

The Arabs declared war on Israel and lost. Two of those countries have already signed a Peace treaty with Israel.  In the future there is the possibility of others doing the same.

No fairy anything is involved in any of this.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 8, 2018)

montelatici said:


> Goldstein's ancestors were European.  Stop with the fantasy.
> 
> "*Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European"
> 
> Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European*


Surprise....

You are a lying son a gun who insists in reposting debunked articles.

Even if it happened to be true, and it is not........all other Jews still have claims on the land.

But you choose to make believe that none of those Jews exist.

"There are no Jews left, is what you like to promote.  They are all mixed in with the "Palestinians" who have been on the land since before Abraham"

Waaaa,   Waaaaaaah......  waaaaah

What is your success rate with this toxic garbage, you thief?


----------



## Roudy (Jan 8, 2018)

Has anybody heard back from the Palestinians since a Trump announced he would cut off all "financial aid" to them?  Looks like it shut them up real well...WINNING.  

Trump Threatens To Cut Off Palestinian Aid


----------



## Shusha (Jan 8, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> No Hypocrisy at all. Most Americans admit what we did to the indigenous people of this country was wrong.



The hypocrisy is demanding the Jewish people "go back to Europe where they came from".  If you demand it for the Jewish people but neglect to go back to where you came from -- you are a hypocrite.


----------



## rylah (Jan 8, 2018)

Following the recent interview with Mordechai Kedar on al-Jazeera:


Abd al-Hamid (manager of Saudi research center):

"We're to recognize that Jerusalem is a religious symbol of the Jews, and it is sacred to them as Mecca and Medina to Muslims.
Therefore the Arab attitude must free itself from the idea  that passed from generation to generation in Christianity and the Political Islam within its 2 streams - Sunni and Shia - an idea that was installed for solely political needs: culture of hatred of Jews and denial of their historic rights in the region.

When we need to argue with the Israeli side in negotiations..."

Interviewer: "Are You saying Palestinians should forget about a capital in East Jerusalem?"

Abd al-Hamid: "I meant that Palestinians, the Arabs and the Arab community, when they managing a negotiation with the Israelis,* they must accept the fact, which source is in sacred writings and history of the place: Jews are a part of this region and its history. And the State of Israel is a result of this historic right of the Jews in the region. When we manage the negotiation with this understanding, that the Israeli side is a partner to the history of this region, whether from rulers perspective, the peoples or the cultural aspects this will ease a lot and enable flexibility in order to reach peace*."


----------



## Roudy (Jan 8, 2018)

Additionally, the Czech Republic, Ghana, Guatemala have followed Trump's lead and recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.  

Perhaps the Arab definition of winning is going backwards?

"The demise of Israel is imminent!"


----------



## rylah (Jan 8, 2018)

montelatici said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



So why don't You post the actual headline used in the research?


----------



## Roudy (Jan 8, 2018)

rylah said:


> Following the recent interview with Mordechai Kedar on al-Jazeera:
> 
> 
> Abd al-Hamid (manager of Saudi research center):
> ...


Yes, even Israel's traditional enemies, those that went to war with her several times, are beginning to see the light!


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 9, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> You missed where Goldstein's ancestors were indigenous of the land of Israel, and being a descendant of them, it makes him indigenous as well.



Well,no, actually it doesn't. No more than my German ancestors make me indigenous to Germany. 



Sixties Fan said:


> The Jews who were expelled from Spain in 1492 were not indigenous of Spain, they were indigenous of the land of Israel.



No, they were indigenous to Spain, until the Arabs made the mistake of taking them in. 



Sixties Fan said:


> The Jews murdered in Germany, Poland and other countries in Europe were not indigenous of Germany, Poland, France, etc.
> They were indigenous of the Land of Israel.



No, they were just a religious minority of those countries that didn't get with the program.  



Sixties Fan said:


> Whether there actually are gods and angels and any other king of spirit, it does not matter.



It does when you insist up and down that MY country should spend blood and treasure so your country can pretend it's magic fairy loves them the very best.  



Sixties Fan said:


> To the winner go the spoils.



So when the Arabs inevitably push the Jews into the Sea, we aren't going to hear you whine about it, right?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 9, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Has anybody heard back from the Palestinians since a Trump announced he would cut off all "financial aid" to them? Looks like it shut them up real well...WINNING.



Won't make a difference... if anything, it just means once we stop bribing them to play nice, they won't play nice anymore.



Shusha said:


> The hypocrisy is demanding the Jewish people "go back to Europe where they came from". If you demand it for the Jewish people but neglect to go back to where you came from -- you are a hypocrite.



Here's the thing. We've been here so long it doesn't matter.

The zionists are all just a generation or two from being invaders.

And sweet evil Jesus, if I DID live next to Native Americans who were strapping bombs onto their kids to try to kill me, I probably WOULD consider moving to Europe.  It takes a special kind of stupid to want to stay under those circumstances.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 9, 2018)

Israel will probably not be defeated. It will just rot out from the inside like a bad tooth. We can see the cavities forming as we speak.


----------



## Hollie (Jan 9, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel will probably not be defeated. It will just rot out from the inside like a bad tooth. We can see the cavities forming as we speak.


Such an angry Islamist.

I guess you missed the fact that in just a few decades from nascent statehood, Israel has developed a world-class economy.

Your various Islamic paradises, on the other hand, are still embroiled in tribal warfare, just as they did in the 7th century.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 9, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> So when the Arabs inevitably push the Jews into the Sea, we aren't going to hear you whine about it, right?


You are funny, and very very deluded.  Because that it NEVER going to happen pal.


----------



## Humanity (Jan 9, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Additionally, the Czech Republic, Ghana, Guatemala have followed Trump's lead and recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
> 
> Perhaps the Arab definition of winning is going backwards?
> 
> "The demise of Israel is imminent!"



Ah yes three powerhouses in world politics


----------



## Roudy (Jan 9, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Has anybody heard back from the Palestinians since a Trump announced he would cut off all "financial aid" to them? Looks like it shut them up real well...WINNING.
> ...


Funny how the leaders aren't inciting riots, bombings and terror as soon as the funding is threatened.  Perhaps because most of the money goes right into their corrupt pockets?  

Winning!


----------



## Roudy (Jan 9, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Additionally, the Czech Republic, Ghana, Guatemala have followed Trump's lead and recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
> ...


Does it matter?  Very soon there will be more nations that like the US will agree that a country has the right to determine where its capital should be.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 9, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel will probably not be defeated. It will just rot out from the inside like a bad tooth. We can see the cavities forming as we speak.


Meanwhile the so called Palestinian cause and its depraved, diseased mentality is about to lose the last few teeth it has.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 9, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Here's the thing. We've been here so long it doesn't matter.
> 
> The zionists are all just a generation or two from being invaders.



So, out of curiosity, just how many generations does it take before it matters?  For how many generations do invaders and conquers have to stay in a territory until it is passes to the invaders?  One?  Two?  A dozen?  A hundred.?  

Look, I'm a firm believe in "you can't unbreak those eggs".  You can't unbreak the egg of the European conquest and colonization of the Americas.  You can't unbreak 1300 years of Arab conquest and colonization of Israel and Judea and Samaria.  But you know what else you can't unbreak?  The return of the Jewish people to their homeland.  

What you CAN do is create a system wherein every peoples has the chance and the right to self-determination.  That is what we should be doing.  For ALL peoples.  

The problem with people like you is that you want different rules for the Jewish people.  And you make stupid excuses for why the Jewish people should be treated differently -- pretending it has everything to do with the circumstances when it really has only to do with being Jewish.  




> And sweet evil Jesus, if I DID live next to Native Americans who were strapping bombs onto their kids to try to kill me, I probably WOULD consider moving to Europe.  It takes a special kind of stupid to want to stay under those circumstances.



Sure you would.  You would not only move back yourself, but you would start a campaign to ensure all non-First Nations people are removed from First Nations territory and returned to Europe.  You would even forcibly deport them.  All of America would get on board with that, wouldn't they.  I mean obviously if the First Nations peoples got serious about self-determination they would start bombing innocent civilians.  And then every non-Native would just up and leave.  Seriously?  Bullshit.  You think that would happen?  In America?  Come on.  

And somehow I don't think you would encourage the Jewish people to start blowing up random Arabs in order to make them "go home".

And, you DO know you are justifying horrific violence against innocents, don't you?  You are excusing it.  You are suggesting that if people are being violent toward you -- you should leave.  As though violence is an acceptable method of getting what you want.


----------



## Humanity (Jan 9, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Does it matter? Really roodboy?

Guatemala jumped straight on the bandwagon as soon as Trumps strong arm tactics were seen for what he really is, nothing more than a corrupt bully.

It needs some rather more powerful countries to join the idiot you call your leader to make any validity to his 'declaration'.

You know, countries that can't be bullied or bought!


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 9, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...




Guatemala was the very first country to vote for the Partition Plan in 1947.  It is a good friend of Israel's, perhaps its very first friend, which is why it's going to move its Embassy to Jerusalem.  Israel is the only country in the world that's not allowed to determine its own capital.  Well, that's changed now.  Jerusalem will never be divided after the miracle of the Six-Day War put it back in Israel's hands after 2,000 years--and it will never be a "corpus separatum" (which is what you want personally).


----------



## Roudy (Jan 9, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


The most powerful country in the world, the US of A and it's people, and it's politicians overwhelmingly support of Israel.  In my book, that's what counts! And things just got much better for Israel. 

Maybe if you wait another 100 years your luck will change?

Winning!


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 9, 2018)

*Israel's response to BDS betrays its weakness | Susan Abulhawa at "Free (Speech) Palestine), 9/18/17*


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 9, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> *Israel's response to BDS betrays its weakness | Susan Abulhawa at "Free (Speech) Palestine), 9/18/17*


She is into "narratives", as are many Palestinian Arabs and you.

Israel is about history and everything that can be proven on that land which backs up the Hebrew/Israelite/Judean History.


You keep your narratives, we will keep our history.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 9, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > *Israel's response to BDS betrays its weakness | Susan Abulhawa at "Free (Speech) Palestine), 9/18/17*
> ...


Israel's narrative was the only one for 50 years. That is why there is so much support for Israel. People did not know any better.

As the narrative changes, opinions change, support changes. That is why Israel is trying to shut down any opposing views.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 9, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> As the narrative changes, opinions change, support changes. That is why Israel is trying to shut down any opposing views.



That's why the Arab Palestinians create false narratives.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 9, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
※→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,

As those that claim to be Palestinians, decedents of the forlorn, the mantra that they follow has been and continues to be the unveiling of its identity, the explanation of its goals and objectives, and the belief in the hope that the Hostile Arab Palestinian struggle against the Jews grows ever increasingly lethal.

Aristotle _(≈ 2300 years ago)_, when teaching the various ways to be persuasive before an audience and to be successful in attracting followers, coined the terms:  Logos Ethos, and Pathos. 

Ethos _(the manipulation of the Cultural Beliefs, Customs, Morals and Habits)_, Pathos _(the exploitation of the mental frames of the people and the emotional triggers they have in common)_, and Logos _(ethical strategies and appeals)_ are the tripartite modes of persuasion used by Aristotle to captivate listeners. 

The tripartite approach by Aristotle worked on his Acolytes because they were the cream of the Greek Society; able to grasp the principles in the epistemology of scientific and that of metaphysics.  Both Socrates and Hypatia of Alexandria fell prey to trail and execution because of the influence they generated using such techniques that threatened the Ruling Elite who were incapable of grasping the concepts.



Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > As the narrative changes, opinions change, support changes. That is why Israel is trying to shut down any opposing views.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Just as people like "Socrates, Hypathia, and Galileo" ran afoul with the unenlightened Ruling Elite, so it is that the Arab Palestinians,  generation after generation, contaminate the intellectual capacity of the Palestinian People.

The Hostile Arab Palestinians do not actually know where they want to push their destiny once they eliminate the Jews and control the territory from the _(Jordan)_ River to the _(Mediterranean)_ Sea.  This is not at all unusual with rudderless political change.  We can see it in the development of DAESH, and the friction between the Hezbollah in the al-Bekka Valley and the remainder of Lebanon.  You saw it in the outcome of the Arab Spring in Egypt _(which has had more leaders in the last seven years then it had in the previous half-century before the Arab Spring)_.

Not that there is much of a possibility that the Arab Palestinians will ever gain control of their goal territory _(since they have not yet managed to form a stable government in the last half-century)_, the real danger is that the inept leadership squabbling will even create more of a hardship on the Arab Palestinians than they already experience. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 9, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
> ※→  Shusha, P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> As those that claim to be Palestinians, decedents of the forlorn, the mantra that they follow has been and continues to be the unveiling of its identity, the explanation of its goals and objectives, and the belief in the hope that the Hostile Arab Palestinian struggle against the Jews grows ever increasingly lethal.
> ...


That is why the Palestinians are blowing by their so called leadership that has been holding them back.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 10, 2018)

And last I checked BDS was outlawed in most US campuses and govt / public offices.

More winning!


----------



## Humanity (Jan 10, 2018)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> which is why it's going to move its Embassy to Jerusalem



Announced immediately after Trump threatened every country who did not support him that he would remove financial support. I call that bribery and corruption.



ForeverYoung436 said:


> Israel is the only country in the world that's not allowed to determine its own capital



Israel CAN determine its own capital. The issue with declaring disputed and illegally held territory is that, well, 1) It's disputed 2) its illegal



ForeverYoung436 said:


> and it will never be a "corpus separatum" (which is what you want personally).



Yes, that is correct. corpus separatum is the ONLY solution that can work.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 10, 2018)

Roudy said:


> And last I checked BDS was outlawed in most US campuses and govt / public offices.
> 
> More winning!


They can't make BDS illegal. There have been some back door laws passed but BDS cannot challenge them in court because the laws do not affect them so they have no standing. We will see if they survive the courts. Two or three of them have already bitten the dust in Europe and there is one case in the US brought by the ACLU.


----------



## fncceo (Jan 10, 2018)

Humanity said:


> I call that bribery and corruption.



I call it diplomacy.


----------



## Humanity (Jan 10, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > I call that bribery and corruption.
> ...



You would!


----------



## fncceo (Jan 10, 2018)

Humanity said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...



Using non-violent coercion to achieve policy objectives is the essence of diplomacy.


----------



## Humanity (Jan 10, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



"The most powerful country in the world"?

Once upon a time maybe... Today, the US of A, thanks to the idiot in the White House, is a laughingstock in the world!

But yes, let Trump carry on with his isolationist ideas... Much better for everyone!


----------



## Humanity (Jan 10, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > fncceo said:
> ...



Yep, totally agree...

However, blatant bullying and threats is NOT diplomacy. Perhaps in Trumps little world but not in the REAL world!


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 10, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> You are funny, and very very deluded. Because that it NEVER going to happen pal.



Actually, it's inevitable. The one thing the Middle East is good at is getting rid of invaders... Just ask the Crusaders.



Shusha said:


> The problem with people like you is that you want different rules for the Jewish people. And you make stupid excuses for why the Jewish people should be treated differently -- pretending it has everything to do with the circumstances when it really has only to do with being Jewish.



Well, that and that sort of thing isn't aceptable anymore.

200 years ago, it was acceptable to invade someone's land, genocide the shit out of them and their culture, and rename all the places.  Today it just plain isn't. 

No other people today would try to pull the shit the Zionists are pulling. Not without facing massive international sanctions.



Shusha said:


> And somehow I don't think you would encourage the Jewish people to start blowing up random Arabs in order to make them "go home".



The Arabs are home.  The Jews are the invaders. They are already blowing up random Palestinians... they just use expensive planes to do it. 



Shusha said:


> And, you DO know you are justifying horrific violence against innocents, don't you? You are excusing it. You are suggesting that if people are being violent toward you -- you should leave. As though violence is an acceptable method of getting what you want.



Oh, I'd be all for a VOTE on the issue. One person, one vote. 

The problem is, since there are more Palestinians than Israelis, the Zionists Entity would be voted out of existence if that ever happened. 

The Palestinians are resorting to violence because that's the only avenue the Zionists have left open to them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 10, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> She is into "narratives", as are many Palestinian Arabs and you.
> 
> Israel is about history and everything that can be proven on that land which backs up the Hebrew/Israelite/Judean History.



when your "history" involves talking donkeys and giants, it's hard to take you seriously.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 10, 2018)

RE:  The Demise of Israel is Imminent*!*
※→  Humanity, ForeverYoung436,  et al,

In order for the concept of _"corpus separatum"_ to actually work, each of the parties to the agreement must maintain the trust and confidence in the other parties involved. The arrangement must be in balance and with each party making a contribution to the political relationship at every social level.



Humanity said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > and it will never be a "corpus separatum" _(which is what you want personally)_.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Most positive political relationships start-out in good faith and harmony.  But that is not presently the measure that Israel maintains with the adjacent Arab Muslim border neighbor states.  Yes, there is a certain set of assurances that one party gives to the other.  And there is a responsibility assumed when one enters into a true friendship with an Arab Counterpart; one of which is the understanding that one will mutually assist the other when in distress.  This is just as important in the individual and personal friendships and it is in friendship dependent accords at the government-to-government level or the larger international level.  While Israel is trying to establish such a rapport with its Arab League neighbors.

While there has been some limited success in the establishment of trust between Israel and its Arab Neighbors, it is nowhere near the tensile strength required to sustain the trials of such embryonic relationships.  There are bound to arise situations that in the beginning of an interactive association that would be necessary to support and maintain a _"corpus separatum"_ conditional relationship.  The mutual relationship has to be strong enough to endure the inevitable mistakes, blunders, and political miscalculations the will arise unforeseen.

The concept of _"corpus separatum"_ can be achieved, → it is not impossible; but not realistically in this time-frame and political climate. 

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 10, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > which is why it's going to move its Embassy to Jerusalem
> ...



Trump announced that America would recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move its Embassy there.  The U.S. is a sovereign nation and has every right to do that.  Trump did NOT announce that every nation in the world must now move their embassies to Jerusalem, or else he would cut off aid to those countries, which is what you make it sound like he's doing.  He said that any nation opposing America's sovereign right to move its OWN embassy there, would have their aid from the U.S. reevaluated.  No other nation has a right to tell America where it can keep its embassies.  And besides that, America has no obligation to provide massive amounts of aid to every country in the world.  Other nations that decided to follow America's lead and move their embassies to Jerusalem are doing so, not out of fear of America--otherwise they would avoid criticizing the U.S. but still keep their embassies in Tel-Aviv.  They are doing so because it's the right thing to do.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 10, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > You are funny, and very very deluded. Because that it NEVER going to happen pal.
> ...




In your response you did exactly what I said you would.  You made excuses pretending it had to do with circumstances -- but it is really a separate set of rules for the Jewish people.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 10, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


The US is still the most powerful democracy both economically and militarily by a long shot.  It doesn't suprise me that a Pallywood propagandist would mock the US and its democractically elected leader. 

Winning!


----------



## Roudy (Jan 10, 2018)

Humanity said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


In the real world Trump is president and Israel is benefitting greatly from his presidency. Deal with it!


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 10, 2018)

It is so amusing how deluded some people are. Israel will not go away and the world is not laughing at Trump.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 10, 2018)

Shusha said:


> In your response you did exactly what I said you would. You made excuses pretending it had to do with circumstances -- but it is really a separate set of rules for the Jewish people.



Um, no. 

I'm holding the Jews to the same standards I hold the Germans to in WWII.  You can't go around taking other people's shit in the modern world. 

Same standard we held Saddam to.  You can't go taking other people's shit.


----------



## fncceo (Jan 10, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> You can't go taking other people's shit.



Good thing Israel never did that.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 10, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Good thing Israel never did that.



So all those wars against the Arabs were figment of our imagination, then?


----------



## fncceo (Jan 10, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> So all those wars against the Arabs were figment of our imagination, then?



Those wars were Arab invasions of the sovereign state of Israel ... wars in which, incidentally, they got their collective arses handed to them.


----------



## Faun (Jan 10, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Question: Does it look like Israel is winning or losing since Trump became president?  Here are some clues....
> 
> Trump Recognizes Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital and Orders U.S. Embassy to Move
> 
> Trump threatens to cut off US aid to Palestinian Authority


Been hearing that my entire life.


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 10, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > In your response you did exactly what I said you would. You made excuses pretending it had to do with circumstances -- but it is really a separate set of rules for the Jewish people.
> ...


Jews wanted to be the best Germans and you’re an idiot on every topic you discuss.


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 10, 2018)

fncceo said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > So all those wars against the Arabs were figment of our imagination, then?
> ...


Joe hates Caucacians.


----------



## fncceo (Jan 10, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> Joe hates Caucacians.



That's cool ... so do I.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 10, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Um, no.
> 
> I'm holding the Jews to the same standards I hold the Germans to in WWII.  You can't go around taking other people's shit in the modern world.
> 
> Same standard we held Saddam to.  You can't go taking other people's shit.



No, you have different standards for different people.  The Europeans were certainly welcome to take First Nations people's "shit", according to you.  The Europeans were welcome to take the Australian First Nations people's "shit".  And the Europeans were also welcome to the South American people's "shit".  But somehow the "Europeans" are not permitted to take the Arab's "shit".  

Why is that?  Oh.  Well. Because the "Europeans" in that case are Jewish.  

Let me be clear here.  "Shit" belongs to the peoples who are indigenous to that place.  That means to the people whose culture originated in that place -- pre-conquest, pre-invasion, pre-colonization.  Or, if you don't especially like that notion, then conquest, invasion and colonization transfer rights of the place to the conquerors, invaders and colonizers.  EITHER WAY the Jewish people have AT LEAST EQUAL claim to the place.  

The game you are playing is that conquerors, invaders and colonizers have claim (can't unbreak the egg).  Oh. *Unless they are Jews.  *


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 10, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > In your response you did exactly what I said you would. You made excuses pretending it had to do with circumstances -- but it is really a separate set of rules for the Jewish people.
> ...


*
I'm holding the Jews to the same standards I hold the Germans to in WWII.
*
And the Arabs too! 

So, Germans started two world wars, lost both, lost some territory.

Arabs started some wars with Israel, lost them, lost some territory.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 11, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Those wars were Arab invasions of the sovereign state of Israel ... wars in which, incidentally, they got their collective arses handed to them.



Uh, guy, when the Jews had to come ALL THE WAY FROM EUROPE, and the Arabs were already there, then the Jews were the invaders.  

See how that works?  



Indeependent said:


> Jews wanted to be the best Germans and you’re an idiot on every topic you discuss.



Uh, dude, you're a racist asshole and everyone is done with you.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 11, 2018)

Shusha said:


> No, you have different standards for different people. The Europeans were certainly welcome to take First Nations people's "shit", according to you. The Europeans were welcome to take the Australian First Nations people's "shit". And the Europeans were also welcome to the South American people's "shit". But somehow the "Europeans" are not permitted to take the Arab's "shit".



Yes, in the 17th century, that sort of thing was considered "acceptable". 

It isn't in the 20th century, that's the point. Kind of like how slavery was kind of okay back then and today it isn't.  

Of course, these things were never, "Okay", it's just today we realize they are bad things.  



Shusha said:


> Let me be clear here. "Shit" belongs to the peoples who are indigenous to that place. That means to the people whose culture originated in that place -- pre-conquest, pre-invasion, pre-colonization. Or, if you don't especially like that notion, then conquest, invasion and colonization transfer rights of the place to the conquerors, invaders and colonizers. EITHER WAY the Jewish people have AT LEAST EQUAL claim to the place.



You see, the thing with that is, those EUROPEAN Jews shared nothing with the people who lived there 2000 years ago but a bastardized, watered down version of their goofy, backward ass religion.  and they don't even do that right, since they aren't stoning girls for not being virgins anymore.  

But even if you take that position, the reality is, the Judeans were only ONE TRIBE over there.  By the time the Romans finally got fed up with their shit, they weren't even speaking Hebrew anymore, they were speaking Aramaic.  And when they got dispersed, they dropped Aramaic and started speaking Yiddish and a bunch of other local languages of their fellow Europeans.


----------



## fncceo (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> when the Jews had to come ALL THE WAY FROM EUROPE,



Israel is a sovereign country.  Who they invite to help them build their country is no one’s concern but Israel’s. 

A Jew from Europe is just as much of a Jew as one from Israel.  Just ask your anti-Semitic friends. They make no distinction on country of origin.  They hate all Jews. 

Do you have an issue with Japan allowing Japanese born abroad to become citizens?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 11, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Israel is a sovereign country. Who they invite to help them build their country is no one’s concern but Israel’s.



Really, show me where Israel is on an 1700's map.  

Thanks.


----------



## fncceo (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Israel is a sovereign country. Who they invite to help them build their country is no one’s concern but Israel’s.
> ...



Just as soon as you tell me what wars Arabs fought with Israel in the 1700s.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 11, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Just as soon as you tell me what wars Arabs fought with Israel in the 1700s.



Naw, man, back in the 1700, the Jews were in Europe cheating the Goyim, so they didn't want to go to Palestine.


----------



## fncceo (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Just as soon as you tell me what wars Arabs fought with Israel in the 1700s.
> ...



They were already there, selling pieces of the true cross and shroud of Turin beach towels to the rubes.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 11, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
※→  JoeB131, Indeependent,  et al,

Oh, come now.  This is simply a demonstration of how childish this "invader" accusation is.  There was no uninvited forceful entry with hostile malicious or confrontational intent by the Jewish People.



JoeB131 said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Those wars were Arab invasions of the sovereign state of Israel ... wars in which, incidentally, they got their collective arses handed to them.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Immigration by the Jewish people, who are willing to assist with the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people - and the development of self-governing institutions - as implied by the the Declaration originally made on 2 November 1917, by the British Government, and approved by the Principle Allied Powers in the 1920 San Remo Convention. _(All understood as objectives by the League of Nations and any modification of the terms of the Mandate requires the consent of the Council of the League. )_

✪ The Principal Allied Powers selected the British Government as the Mandatory for _Palestine_.
✪ The _Palestine_ Mandate is of a very special character; with the Mandatory having full powers of legislation and of administration.
✪ The Mandatory _(British Government)_ was responsible for:

•  Placing the territory to which the Mandate applied, under such political, administrative and economic conditions.
•  Securing the establishment of the Jewish national home. 
•  Securing the interests of the Jewish population in _Palestine_.
•  Enact a nationality law containing provisions to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in _Palestine_.​
What does this mean? _*(RHETORICAL QUESTION)*_  There was no hostile intent _(on the part of the Jewish immigrants)_ at the beginning of the civil administration, to takeover the territory.  The territory was firmly in the control of the British Government.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 11, 2018)

RE: The demise of Isreal is imminent!
※→ JoeB131, √ fncceo, et al,

I'm nt sure that, under any interpretation or in any meaningful way, that it makes a difference.



JoeB131 said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Just as soon as you tell me what wars Arabs fought with Israel in the 1700s.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The 1700's were characterized as a century of Great Rolling Expulsions!




 ​
Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Humanity (Jan 11, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> In order for the concept of _"corpus separatum"_ to actually work, each of the parties to the agreement must maintain the trust and confidence in the other parties involved. The arrangement must be in balance and with each party making a contribution to the political relationship at every social level.



It also requires 'parties' to NOT declare 'undivided capital' and illegally occupy east Jerusalem.


----------



## Humanity (Jan 11, 2018)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...



Correct, Trump did NOT announce that every nation must now move their embassy to Jerusalem.

Here's what he said...

_“Let them vote against us,” he said.

“We’ll save a lot. We don’t care. But this isn’t like it used to be where they could vote against you and then you pay them hundreds of millions of dollars,” he said. “We’re not going to be taken advantage of any longer.”_

Correct, there is NO requirement for any country to move it's embassy to where the US embassy may be. 

Correct, the US is free to have it's embassy wherever the hell it wants.

Correct, the US no "obligation" to provide aid to anyone (Though that is debatable).

It is NOT correct that, for example, Guatemala came out and announced it would also move it's embassy to Jerusalem because "it's the right thing to do"... If you believe that then you are naive!

Guatemala announced it would also move it's embassy AFTER the Trump threats to remove aid.

Now, however you want to look at it that is plain and simple bullying and we all know what happens to bullies! 

Trump on UN Jerusalem vote: 'we're watching your votes'


----------



## Humanity (Jan 11, 2018)

Roudy said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



From what I see around the world AND within the US, there are plenty of people mocking the "elected leader" of the US.

I have friends in America, including Jewish friends, who send me messages almost weekly, apologizing for the pathetic "elected leader", his comments, his decisions, his attitude.

Trump is a laughing stock amongst world leaders and is making the US a laughing stock!

Losing !


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 11, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


Oddly, none of your posts spell the demise of Israel, imminent or not.

No matter who the President of the USA might be, then or now, Israel exists, strives and grows.

Winning, and winning again.


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Those wars were Arab invasions of the sovereign state of Israel ... wars in which, incidentally, they got their collective arses handed to them.
> ...


Your depth of Middle East history is humurous.
There’s not one Arab nation that agrees with you.
I grew up in a Black neighborhood so be careful who you’re calling a racist, you non-Caucasian ass kisser.


----------



## Humanity (Jan 11, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



Not so "oddly" really... I don't want the "demise" of Israel.

Well, it appears that it does matter who is president of the US. Trumps decision, IMHO, is based upon NOT what is best for Israel and Palestine but is one on his own 'agenda'... 

It's not something that is going to 'help' with the peace process and surely that should be exactly what SHOULD be happening!


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 11, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


Every president pushes their own agenda


----------



## fncceo (Jan 11, 2018)

There are currently more than 30 armed conflicts around the world with casualties much higher than the I/P Conflict.  

You have to wonder what motivates people who have no vested interest in that conflict to be so obsessed over it.  

One can not but wonder what motivates that obsession apart from a desire for peace.


----------



## Humanity (Jan 11, 2018)

fncceo said:


> There are currently more than 30 armed conflicts around the world with casualties much higher than the I/P Conflict.
> 
> You have to wonder what motivates people who have no vested interest in that conflict to be so obsessed over it.
> 
> One can not but wonder what motivates that obsession apart from a desire for peace.



You answered your own question!


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 11, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


“We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.”
Golda Meir


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Uh, guy, when the Jews had to come ALL THE WAY FROM EUROPE, and the Arabs were already there, then the Jews were the invaders.
> 
> See how that works?



Um, what about when the Arabs came in all the way from wherever and the Jews and Christians were already there?

Oh yeah. Makes no never mind to you about that inconvenient truth does it?


----------



## Roudy (Jan 11, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Humanity said:
> ...


Oh wow, you also have liberal friends who have become mentally ill over the fact that Trump became president?  Meanwhile, Israel is chugging along, benefitting from the full support of the current administration, unlike the previous president, who stabbed Israel in the back several times. Aren't we grateful that crooked Hillary isn't president?  

Winning!


----------



## Shusha (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Yes, in the 17th century, that sort of thing was considered "acceptable".
> 
> It isn't in the 20th century, that's the point. Kind of like how slavery was kind of okay back then and today it isn't.
> 
> Of course, these things were never, "Okay", it's just today we realize they are bad things.



The invasion of one State by another sovereign State has never been considered "acceptable".  That is not what we are discussing here.

Here, we are discussing the return of a people to their homeland.  As in migration.  You may notice that migration is considered quite acceptable in the world.  (Except when Jews do it).  

Self-determination is also quite acceptable in the world.  (Except when Jews do it).  



> You see, the thing with that is, those EUROPEAN Jews shared nothing with the people who lived there 2000 years ago but a bastardized, watered down version of their goofy, backward ass religion.  and they don't even do that right, since they aren't stoning girls for not being virgins anymore.
> 
> But even if you take that position, the reality is, the Judeans were only ONE TRIBE over there.  By the time the Romans finally got fed up with their shit, they weren't even speaking Hebrew anymore, they were speaking Aramaic.  And when they got dispersed, they dropped Aramaic and started speaking Yiddish and a bunch of other local languages of their fellow Europeans.



See.  And there you go.  You are so invested in making up special rules for the Jewish people that you have to DIVORCE them from their history and their language and even their religion.  That's the extent to which antisemites go to pretend that the Jewish people are not really the Jewish people.  Its an absolutely ridiculous argument. And you do not apply the same criteria to other people.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 11, 2018)

Has it ever occurred for you to wonder WHY you must divorce the Jewish people from their history, their language and their religion?  Its because if you DIDN'T, you would have to acknowledge that the Jewish people are simply coming home.  And that is just awkward for you.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 11, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> mmigration by the Jewish people, who are willing to assist with the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people - and the development of self-governing institutions - as implied by the the Declaration originally made on 2 November 1917, by the British Government, and approved by the Principle Allied Powers in the 1920 San Remo Convention.



Okay, buddy, got to stop you right there.  

The British Government had no business giving away the Palestinian's land.  

YOu see, the thing was, the originally started this bullshit during WWI to try to get Russian Jews to keep Russia in the war.  The Russians had enough of that shit and got out of it. 

And between 1919 and 1945, very few Jews were rushing over there.  Not until after WWII, did you get a big flood of them.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 11, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> The 1700's were characterized as a century of Great Rolling Expulsions!



yes, they do have a wonderful habit of pissing off anyone they encounter.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 11, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> Um, what about when the Arabs came in all the way from wherever and the Jews and Christians were already there?
> 
> Oh yeah. Makes no never mind to you about that inconvenient truth does it?



Because it didn't happen.  There were almost no Jews in Palestine before 1900.  Zionism is colonialism by other means.... 



Shusha said:


> See. And there you go. You are so invested in making up special rules for the Jewish people that you have to DIVORCE them from their history and their language and even their religion. That's the extent to which antisemites go to pretend that the Jewish people are not really the Jewish people. Its an absolutely ridiculous argument. And you do not apply the same criteria to other people.



Oh, I freely admit that the Jewish people are the Jewish people.  they aren't the JUDEAN people.  Those people went the way of the Edomites and Aramians and Moabites and Ammonites. History is full of nations that disappeared.  

Some Europeans calling themselves something similiar and saying, "Our God Promised us this land!"  

To which I reply "The same God who did nothing when the Germans were trying to wipe you out?  Maybe you need a new God.  I hear Zeus isn't busy."


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 11, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Has it ever occurred for you to wonder WHY you must divorce the Jewish people from their history, their language and their religion? Its because if you DIDN'T, you would have to acknowledge that the Jewish people are simply coming home. And that is just awkward for you.



No, what is awkward for me is that I live in the 21st Century, we have space shuttles and computers and medicines and stuff, and we still have people claiming they have the right to act like Jerks because a Magic Fairy in the Sky said so.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > mmigration by the Jewish people, who are willing to assist with the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people - and the development of self-governing institutions - as implied by the the Declaration originally made on 2 November 1917, by the British Government, and approved by the Principle Allied Powers in the 1920 San Remo Convention.
> ...


It was not Palestinian Land.

And if it belonged to any "Palestinians", then it belonged to those the Romans renamed Judea after.  The Jewish People, who still lived on the land.

A Master Conspiracy Theorist you are.

Not one conspiracy theory against the Jews you have not become attracted to, I see.

The Judeans/Palestinian Jews were always present on their ancient homeland.

When it got "flooded" by the indigenous Jews, is not important.
What is important is that they are the indigenous people of the land and most unfortunately it took a Caucasian madman and a Muslim Arab madman to force most Jews to leave Europe and the Arab conquered (yes, conquered) lands, in order for some of them to have a safe haven to return to in their own ancient homeland.

You wish to blame it all on the Jewish people.

Look int Christianity and Islam and what they have been capable of for the past 1700 years, and how many people they murdered on their way to "conquering the world" in the name of  Christ or Allah.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Has it ever occurred for you to wonder WHY you must divorce the Jewish people from their history, their language and their religion? Its because if you DIDN'T, you would have to acknowledge that the Jewish people are simply coming home. And that is just awkward for you.
> ...




Israel isn't only about Gd.  It's about history, heritage and ancestry.  It's about Jews having a place for a refuge and haven.  Many Jews went to live in Israel after WW2 when they were forced out of Europe, like my grandparents.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Has it ever occurred for you to wonder WHY you must divorce the Jewish people from their history, their language and their religion? Its because if you DIDN'T, you would have to acknowledge that the Jewish people are simply coming home. And that is just awkward for you.
> ...


Then send a note to the jerks in Christianity and Islam who continue to believe that their magic fairies in the sky told them this and that for the past 1700 years.

Those jerks are the problem as they continue to want other people's land and keep them oppressed.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 11, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Look int Christianity and Islam and what they have been capable of for the past 1700 years, and how many people they murdered on their way to "conquering the world" in the name of Christ or Allah.



Oh, I agree.  All religion is kind of messed up.  

But holding on to a strip of desert and threatening the whole world with nukes if you don't get your way.... that's a special kind of religious crazy.  



Sixties Fan said:


> It was not Palestinian Land.
> 
> And if it belonged to any "Palestinians", then it belonged to those the Romans renamed Judea after. The Jewish People, who still lived on the land.



Except by 1900, there were very few Jews left.  An Ottoman Census only counted 44,000 Jews in Palestine in 1890.  (compared to half a million Muslims and 80K Christians.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Look int Christianity and Islam and what they have been capable of for the past 1700 years, and how many people they murdered on their way to "conquering the world" in the name of Christ or Allah.
> ...


Some humans are messed up.  Religion or no religion.

And there is no "threat" of nuking the "world" if Israel does not get its way.
Israel has it to keep others from attacking it.
The same with the USA, India and many other countries.

It does not depend on how many Jews were living on their ancient homeland.

It has been their ancient homeland for over 3000 years.

The same way one cannot count the Maoris, Aborigines, Hawaiians, Mayans, Aztecs, etc.
It is not how many there are, but that the lands they lived on, or continue to live on has been theirs for thousands of years, no matter if there were invaders who conquered those lands.

Any other conspiracy theories you may need clarification on?


----------



## Shusha (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Oh, I freely admit that the Jewish people are the Jewish people.  they aren't the JUDEAN people.  Those people went the way of the Edomites and Aramians and Moabites and Ammonites. History is full of nations that disappeared.



And see? There you go again. Your need to have special rules for the Jewish people is so irrational that you have to claim that the Jewish people don't exist.  When they clearly do.  Its so irrational, so ridiculous .... it boggles the mind.


----------



## PredFan (Jan 11, 2018)

Is Israel gone yet?

Must be some new meaning if the word “imminent” that I hadn’t been previously aware of.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > mmigration by the Jewish people, who are willing to assist with the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people - and the development of self-governing institutions - as implied by the the Declaration originally made on 2 November 1917, by the British Government, and approved by the Principle Allied Powers in the 1920 San Remo Convention.
> ...


*
The British Government had no business 
*
They did, actually.

*giving away the Palestinian's land.  
*
It was the Turk's land. And now it's the Israeli's land.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jan 11, 2018)

Arab Palestine and Jewish Palestine were defined as ideals long ago...







The Palis own propaganda maps show how delightfully close the Israelis are to fulfilling that vision...


----------



## Roudy (Jan 11, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > mmigration by the Jewish people, who are willing to assist with the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people - and the development of self-governing institutions - as implied by the the Declaration originally made on 2 November 1917, by the British Government, and approved by the Principle Allied Powers in the 1920 San Remo Convention.
> ...


So Joehammad, does this diversion into your bullshit version of history mean that you agree with the premise of this thread title, aka ISRAEL = WINNING!


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, in the 17th century, that sort of thing was considered "acceptable".
> ...





Shusha said:


> The invasion of one State by another sovereign State has never been considered "acceptable". That is not what we are discussing here.


I hope not. Palestine never invaded another country.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 12, 2018)

Kondor3 said:


> Arab Palestine and Jewish Palestine were defined as ideals long ago...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Eli E. Hertz, 2005.


----------



## admonit (Jan 12, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


A non-existent state cannot invade any country.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 12, 2018)

admonit said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Do you have proof of that?

Of course not.


----------



## admonit (Jan 12, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Proof of nonexistence? You are joking.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 12, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> And there is no "threat" of nuking the "world" if Israel does not get its way.
> Israel has it to keep others from attacking it.
> The same with the USA, India and many other countries.



Those other countries don't involve keeping a boot on the neck of half their population and threatening all their neighbors with nukes if they want to do something about it. 



Sixties Fan said:


> It does not depend on how many Jews were living on their ancient homeland.



Yeah, it kind of does... Kind of like I can't take a seat on the bus by shoving an old lady out of it because I sat in that seat last year.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> And see? There you go again. Your need to have special rules for the Jewish people is so irrational that you have to claim that the Jewish people don't exist. When they clearly do. Its so irrational, so ridiculous .... it boggles the mind.



a bunch of Europeans with a goofy religion aren't "a people'.  

It's as silly as the Scientologists claiming the land where Space Lord Zenu landed.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jan 12, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > And there is no "threat" of nuking the "world" if Israel does not get its way.
> ...


Unless you've got the largest and most efficient armed forces in the region and are close allies with the strongest military power on the planet.

To the Devil with the Neanderthals in Gaza and the West Bank... let 'em pack up and move to Jordan where they now belong.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 12, 2018)

Kondor3 said:


> Unless you've got the largest and most efficient armed forces in the region and are close allies with the strongest military power on the planet.
> 
> To the Devil with the Neanderthals in Gaza and the West Bank... let 'em pack up and move to Jordan where they now belong.



How about, to heck with the Zionists, let them move back to Europe wher they belong. 

fixed it for you.  

But you do bring up an interesting point.  If the US didn't back the Zionist entity, and subsidize it with billions a year, would it continue to exist?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 12, 2018)

admonit said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > admonit said:
> ...


Funny that Israel has been fighting a non existent country for a hundred years and has no won yet.


----------



## Kondor3 (Jan 12, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Unless you've got the largest and most efficient armed forces in the region and are close allies with the strongest military power on the planet.
> ...


The Jews of the 1940s carved-out a homeland of their own without any substantive help from the United States.

The Jews of Israel held onto a homeland of their own for the first 25 years of its existence without any substantive help from the United States.

The United States only began helping Israel substantively by making good on their military inventory losses in the wake of the 1973 war.

The Israelis are perfectly capable of holding onto what is now theirs, without substantive help from the United States.

It's merely much easier to do so with the backing of an excellent friend such as the United States.

Why?

Holocaust.

The Jews are determined never to allow Gentiles to slaughter them again.

To do that, they need a patch of earth of their own.

They chose Israel-Judea-Palestine, naturally.

Hell, the camel jockeys weren't doing anything worthwhile with the damned thing anyway.

As to the rest...

Vae victus.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 12, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...




* Palestine never invaded another country.
*
Only because it was never a country.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 12, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > And there is no "threat" of nuking the "world" if Israel does not get its way.
> ...



*Those other countries don't involve keeping a boot on the neck of half their population 
*
You're right, most Muslim countries keep the boot on closer to 100% of their country.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 12, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


*
Funny that Israel has been fighting a non existent country for a hundred years and has no won yet. 
*
Funnier that Israel has been fighting Arabs and kicks their asses every time.


----------



## Humanity (Jan 12, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Your need to have special rules for the Jewish people is so irrational



These "special rules" that seem to be applied by Team Israel are, as you say, totally "irrational"!

God. History. DNA and on and on and on...

It is based upon these "special rules" that Israel exists.


----------



## rylah (Jan 12, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Your need to have special rules for the Jewish people is so irrational
> ...



Israel is indeed based on G-d, history but not on DNA.
Culture is what defines any other nation - there's nothing special about it in theory...but it is very unusual for people to comprehend...that an ancient nation described in their holy books indeed exists in front of their eyes as a sovereign state.

It raises up many inconvenient questions about the Bible...


----------



## Shusha (Jan 12, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Your need to have special rules for the Jewish people is so irrational
> ...



Not so. Israel applies the same rules that apply to all other indigenous cultures. Kurds. Catalans. First Nations of the Americas. Arab Palestinians. All the peoples of the world who seek self-determination. 

Also all the peoples of the world who already have self-determination. Serbs. And Croats. And Czechs. And the Koreans. And Montenegrans. And south Sudanese. And all the others. 

The rules are exactly the same. And apply to all. You  don't see anyone on Team Israel claiming that Catalans don't exist. Or don't count as a people. 

And Team Israel never uses the DNA argument, though they often respond to false claims by Team Palestine. 

Some use the G-d argument. Not many.   I personally think the G-d argument is ridiculous. From anyone.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 12, 2018)

Humanity said:


> History.



Really?  You don't think history is a good basis for the self-determination of a peoples?  What is then?


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 12, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Um, what about when the Arabs came in all the way from wherever and the Jews and Christians were already there?
> ...




It's a myth that almost no Jews lived in Israel from 70 CE to the 1800's.  It was during this period that the Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism) was invented in Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel).  It was during this period that the Kabbalat Shabbat prayers were composed by the Kabbalists in Jerusalem, Tiberias, Sefad and Hebron.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 12, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > And see? There you go again. Your need to have special rules for the Jewish people is so irrational that you have to claim that the Jewish people don't exist. When they clearly do. Its so irrational, so ridiculous .... it boggles the mind.
> ...


I find it interesting that you bash all other religions except Islam, now why is that?  Must be that Muslim "tolerance".   Keeping in mind that Islam was created by a warlord, who's followers and himself invaded, raped, and looted everywhere they went. 

And you wonder why Israel enjoys such high approval among the American public and successive governments?  People like you exactly why Israel will has been....

WINNING!


----------



## Roudy (Jan 12, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Israel has been fighting Arab IslamoNazism since the days of the "Palestinian" Nazi mufti and as we can clearly see....

WINNING! 

Especially recently, when became president. 

I know this must be hard for Hamas lovers like you to accept that your fantasies of the destruction of Israel are about to get flushed down the toilet of history, that's why you keep going off topic.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 12, 2018)

Humanity said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Your need to have special rules for the Jewish people is so irrational
> ...


Yeah, and all those special rules that Arab Muslims have?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 12, 2018)

Kondor3 said:


> The Jews of the 1940s carved-out a homeland of their own without any substantive help from the United States.



You mean they stole a bunch of land with the help of the British...  who were hoping to outsource their failing empire.  



Kondor3 said:


> It's merely much easier to do so with the backing of an excellent *friend* such as the United States.



I think you spelled "Patsy" wrong.  



Kondor3 said:


> The Jews are determined never to allow Gentiles to slaughter them again.
> 
> To do that, they need a patch of earth of their own.



Um,no, giving people valid reasons to WANT to kill you isn't likely to prevent another mass slaughter, it's more likely to cause one 



Kondor3 said:


> They chose Israel-Judea-Palestine, naturally.
> 
> Hell, the camel jockeys weren't doing anything worthwhile with the damned thing anyway.



And who gets to determine that?  So if someone decides they can make better use of your land, they should be able to take it from you?


----------



## Kondor3 (Jan 12, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> ...Um,no, giving people valid reasons to WANT to kill you isn't likely to prevent another mass slaughter, it's more likely to cause one...


Ummmm... yes... but you (anti-Israeli, Palestinian sympathizers) can always *try* to take them on.



> ...So if someone decides they can make better use of your land, they should be able to take it from you?


If they have a bigger arsenal, well, yeah... just ask your Russian friends... or the Ukranians... code word "Crimea".


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 12, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > The Jews of the 1940s carved-out a homeland of their own without any substantive help from the United States.
> ...


The Jews are the First Nation of the land of Israel.

They are not invaders of their own ancient land.

They always had a presence in it, check the history from the Phillistines (Greeks) to the Ottomans (Turks)

There is a rich Jewish history on the land and no one has ever denied it or attempted to deny it until the Jews sought sovereignty over any part of their ancient homeland where they were still living.

Make any and all accusations you like, based on what you wish has happened, and not what has actually happened.
It will not change anything.

The Jews have achieved what many other indigenous people in the world have been dreaming for centuries.
Sovereignty over any part of their own ancient homeland.
And many indigenous people support the Jewish people, as they seek the same.

The Jews were the Palestinians living on the land at the time the Romans changed the name of Judea into Syria Palestinea in 135 CE.

The Arabs who invaded 5 centuries later were very aware of the history of the Jews on that land, and respected them enough to let them return to Jerusalem which had been closed to them by the Romans, and then the Christian Byzantine.

Your fantasy world will not change anything about the history of the region, or the need for the Jewish people to protect their people and land from those, like you, who have always sought to harm them and who continue to wish to harm them.

Are you going to tell us that others have always had a valid reason to want to kill Jews for the past 1700 years?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 13, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> The Jews are the First Nation of the land of Israel.



No they aren't.  they're just a bunch of Europeans who picked a goofy religion. 

"Hey, let's pick that religion witha lot of stupid rules and no promise of an interesting afterlife?"  



Sixties Fan said:


> The Arabs who invaded 5 centuries later were very aware of the history of the Jews on that land, and respected them enough to let them return to Jerusalem which had been closed to them by the Romans, and then the Christian Byzantine.



Yes, they did.  What they didn't do was let them steal their land. 

You see, very few "Arabs" actually invaded.  they just converted the people there to Islam and they replaced Aramaic with Arabic as the _linga franca_.  

And everyone was fine with that for another 500 years until the stupidity of the Crusades.  "MY Magic FAIRY IN THE SKY SAYS THAT'S MY LAND!!!"  A bunch of European Assholes said. 

Just like the Zionists.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > The Jews are the First Nation of the land of Israel.
> ...



You are the only European following some magic fairy of anything which tells you that the Jews ceased to exist, and some people of Turkish ancestry would care to choose the most hated religion by Christians and Muslims in order to "take" some land which has never been theirs.

Good intentions (yours) with very bad information (yours) is a very deadly combination.

But the conflict is not caused by bad information, it is cause by some Christians and Muslims who hate the Jewish people because that is what they have been taught for 2000 years.

Ignorance is eternal, and the Jewish people will not live dependent on those who are not ignorant and who do not wish them ill (death).

The People of Israel Live. As they always have.  And have regained sovereignty over some of their ancient homeland, people like you like it, accept it or not.

Check your endless ignorance and desire to harm the Jewish people and then ask yourself who the real asshole is.  You will eventually figure out that it is you.

The European assholes are the ones who hate the Jews and turned hatred of Jews into an art, with pogroms, the inquisition and even what happened during the Holocaust.

You, and others,  really seem to think that a few people who may have converted to Judaism in the 10 century CE would care to remain Jewish and go through Pogrom after Pogrom, the Inquisition and then what happened in WWII without thinking twice about it?

And all for a very small piece of land Israel now stands on (lost 80% of it to the Muslims) and being surrounded by people who want to kill them?

Are you aware how the Khazars beat the Muslims again and again on their land and stayed safe from them in the centuries when the Monarchy stood in Central Asia.

By the way, Central Asia, where Khazar existed is not known as being Europe.
Therefore, even if all the Jews today were from there (not one of them is), it would still not make them European assholes.

Assholes are all the Europeans and Arab descendants who think they have the exclusive right to hate Jews and demand of those Jews whatever they want, because that is what their asshole ancestors were doing against the Jews.

As I said, you keep on believing all the Jew hating voices you hear or read on the tv, radio, internet and enjoy yourself .

You would never be sitting on your computer being as full of certainty about the falsehood of the Jews, if it weren't for the Christians and Muslims who know exactly where they want all Jews.

Under their boots, or nowhere else in the world.

Because, as we saw during the Holocaust, some Christians and Muslims decided that Jews were not needed on the world, anymore.

If they had been Europeans, as you say, all Christians had to do, like good ol' Hitler, was to force all of them to return to Christianity, after all the Khazars had been Christians.

But.....by all means.....do not bother yourself with the WHY, European Catholic Christianity and Hitler's Nazis, never thought or even bothered to do such a thing.  Return all of those European Khazars to their one and true religion......Christianity.

Would you like to take a crack at thinking about what I just wrote and let me know what your conclusions might be?

WHY did the Catholic Church (and the Nazis) not simply force all of these "Khazar Jews" to return to Christianity as they had done during the Inquisition and many other times?
They had most of them in concentration camps.  

It would have been so easy.


What is your answer to this?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 13, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> But the conflict is not caused by bad information, it is cause by some Christians and Muslims who hate the Jewish people because that is what they have been taught for 2000 years.



Since Islam and Christianity are offshoots of the original Abrahamic religion, whose fault is that?  If you want to invent a truly vicious sky pixie to justify the stealing of other people's land (which come to think of it, pretty much describes the genocide manual that is the old testament) you really shouldn't whine when it turns back on you.  



Sixties Fan said:


> As I said, you keep on believing all the Jew hating voices you hear or read on the tv, radio, internet and enjoy yourself .
> 
> You would never be sitting on your computer being as full of certainty about the falsehood of the Jews, if it weren't for the Christians and Muslims who know exactly where they want all Jews.



Guy, here's the thing. ALL religions are bullshit.  What makes Zionism particularly obnoxious is they use the bullshit to excuse some truly awful behavior. 



Sixties Fan said:


> But.....by all means.....do not bother yourself with the WHY, European Catholic Christianity and Hitler's Nazis, never thought or even bothered to do such a thing. Return all of those European Khazars to their one and true religion......Christianity.
> 
> Would you like to take a crack at thinking about what I just wrote and let me know what your conclusions might be?



Same reason they didn't care about the religious grace of the Gypsies, Slavs, disabled, homosexuals or other people they wanted to eliminate in their misguided attempts to produce a "Master Race".


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > But the conflict is not caused by bad information, it is cause by some Christians and Muslims who hate the Jewish people because that is what they have been taught for 2000 years.
> ...


And in the end.....

You did not really want to think, you didn't really want to ponder anything I wrote and the real questions I put up.

You are a total ignoramus scared to death fool.

And we, the descendants of the ancient Hebrews, Israelites, Judeans continue to live and be sovereign, at last, over part of our ancient homeland.

When is the your hoped for demise of Israel is going to happen?

Never.

As in NEVER AGAIN.

Am Israel Chai.
The People of Israel Live.

And they live and grow and prosper, as they did before, ON their ancient homeland.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

abi said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > It’s absurd that the US gives those Palestinian terrorists any money at all.
> ...



Combat testing of our weapons systems.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

abi said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t give a shit. If we give the Palestinian terrorists one cent, it’s too much.
> ...



Stop killing Israelis, throwing rocks at the troops, and launching rockets.

That would be a start!


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 13, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> And in the end.....
> 
> You did not really want to think, you didn't really want to ponder anything I wrote and the real questions I put up.



Naw, they were just stupid questions so I didn't waste a lot of time with them.  



Sixties Fan said:


> And we, the descendants of the ancient Hebrews, Israelites, Judeans continue to live and be sovereign, at last, over part of our ancient homeland.



Until the Arabs throw your asses out, after half of you decide that you'd rather live in Europe or America where it's cheaper and no one is trying to blow you up.  It's kind of Darwinian when you think about it. 



Sixties Fan said:


> When is the your hoped for demise of Israel is going to happen?



Again, probably within 50 years.  Israel is an apartheid state. The world community has given it kind of a pass because you guys keep playing the "but,but,but, Hitler" Card, but I have bad news for you buddy. 

You've just exceeded your limit on the Hitler Card.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > And in the end.....
> ...


If you said so, it must be so.

Will you be around in 50 years, or more to check that your wish has been fulfilled?

And if you are still alive and it has not been fulfilled, and the Arabs are the ones who have given in and signed a Peace Treaty, as the Egyptians and Jordanians have done?

What then....


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 13, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> If you said so, it must be so.
> 
> Will you be around in 50 years, or more to check that your wish has been fulfilled?
> 
> And if you are still alive and it has not been fulfilled, and the Arabs are the ones who have given in and signed a Peace Treaty, as the Egyptians and Jordanians have done?



Again, guy, here's how it's going to play out. 

Eventually, the Zionists are going to realize that they can't continue to deny the rights of 8 million Palestinians.  Not in the face of world pressure. 

They might try a "Two-State" solution, if they give up the West Bank, but then they would just have a state importing terrorists into their heartland every day...  and it doesn't solve the underlying problem. 

Eventually, if you go with one person, one vote, the Palestinian Majority will vote the Zionist entity out of existence.  Watch all the rich Jews go back to Europe then...  

Buh-bye...


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > If you said so, it must be so.
> ...


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 13, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> [



Yup, keep living in your fantasy world. 

Ask the Afrikanners how well that worked out for them.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory (Jan 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You need a new calendar.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

A Black South African’s Visit to Israel

http://www.jpost.com/International/...n-group-visits-Israel-on-peace-mission-508041

Opinion | Why Israel Is Nothing Like Apartheid South Africa

10 Reasons Israel Is Not An 'Apartheid' State

------------
Your choice:

Learn from those who live there or have been to Israel....
or remain an ignoramus.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 13, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Your choice:
> 
> Learn from those who live there or have been to Israel....
> or remain an ignoramus.



I don't need to visit Israel or South Africa to recognize Apartheid when i see it.


----------



## admonit (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > And in the end.....
> ...


Don't worry, Israel is fine.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Your choice:
> ...


You have not been to Israel but you have seen it in Israel.

Oh, I get it....

You are god, one of those magic ones in the sky, and from your porch upstairs, you can "see" everything.

Or, you have some humungous magnifier or any other apparatus which allows you to "see" apartheid in Israel without stepping foot there.

Fascinating....

South Africa and Israel: Looking Behind the Smoke Screen | HuffPost


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Afrikaners - Wikipedia

*Afrikaners* are a Southern African ethnic group descended from predominantly Dutch settlers first arriving in the 17th and 18th centuries.[9] They traditionally dominated South Africa's agriculture and politics prior to 1994

-----------------
Jews = descendants of the Hebrew/Israelite/Judeans who lived on the Land of Israel, and continued to have a presence on that land to this day.

Zionists = Jews, descendants of the Hebrews/Israelites/Judeans, who decided that living in Europe which did not respect them, and much less want them there, decided that it was time to acquire sovereignty over any part of their ancient homeland.

----------------------------
Afrikaners = Europeans who invaded and colonized South Africa.

Zionists = Descendants of the Hebrews/Israelites/Judeans who had enough of the European mistreatment of Jews for the past 1900 years, and decided that HOME IS WHERE THE HEART IS.

Home for the Jews, Zionists and non zionists (those who do not care to have Israel as a sovereign state for the Jews at any time, and prefer not to have a Country, even though some do live there) 

Jews have always known where home was.
They have never stopped praying towards their homeland, or thinking about their homeland. (No, it is nowhere in Europe or Central Asia)


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > If you said so, it must be so.
> ...


1)  It is not 8 Million Palestinian Arabs, never was.

2)  Explain why, if Israel is so Apartheid, so many Palestinian Arabs are continuing to apply for Israeli citizenship.  Why would Israel even allow them to apply for it?

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia

Most of the Arabs living in East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, occupied by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967 and later annexed, were offered Israeli citizenship, but most have refused, not wanting to recognize Israel's claim to sovereignty. They became permanent residents instead.[13] They have the right to apply for citizenship, are entitled to municipal services, and have municipal voting rights.[14]


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 13, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Sixties Fan said:
> ...



Pictures like this tell me all I need to know about the Zionist entity and why most of the world hates it.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 13, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Zionists = Descendants of the Hebrews/Israelites/Judeans who had enough of the European mistreatment of Jews for the past 1900 years, and decided that HOME IS WHERE THE HEART IS.



Except they made no effort to go back there for 2000 years....  they settled in Europe and became Europeans.  

Until the Europeans got fed up with their shit.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Sorry, I thought it was the Palestinian leader's fault for following Islam, where no life is to be respected but only used for a greater vision.  That is why there are so many Martyrs in Palestinian Society.
The whole world is Muslim to Islam, and all conquered land by Muslims must remain in Muslim land.

Now, many of these photos are from people in Syria and the conflict going on there.  

You would have to send me a link as to where you got this photo
and what had happened, etc, etc.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Zionists = Descendants of the Hebrews/Israelites/Judeans who had enough of the European mistreatment of Jews for the past 1900 years, and decided that HOME IS WHERE THE HEART IS.
> ...


You really get your information from a garbage truck.

Jews have always been present on the Land of Israel, and every time there was a massacre or expulsion from anywhere in the world, the Jews returned to their ancient homeland.

Settling in Europe does not make one indigenous of Europe, like the Celts, Romans, Greeks, Ancient French, Polish, Dutch, etc.

It is a common recent mistake for some to want to believe that once one moves to another countinent, then one becomes indigenous to that continent.

It is not true to any one.
Germans living in America are still indigenous of Germany.
So on and so forth.

You really missed where the Inquisition did not consider the Jews to be Europeans.  
And missed even more where the Nazis did not consider any of those Jews indigenous of Europe.

So, how does one "become" an European" ?


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Zionists = Descendants of the Hebrews/Israelites/Judeans who had enough of the European mistreatment of Jews for the past 1900 years, and decided that HOME IS WHERE THE HEART IS.
> ...


"Until the Europeans got fed up with their shit"

You mean:

Until anti Jewish sentiments came up again in an ugly way, because some Jew hater was in control or riots, etc and set the population against the Jews, because after all what easier scapegoat did the Europeans have then the Jews, who had no rights, and no sovereign land to return to.

That was then, and this is now....

And just look at how the European Christians continue to blame everything on the Jewish people just as they have been doing for the past 1700 years.

Some people never grow up.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 13, 2018)

rylah said:


> It raises up many inconvenient questions about the Bible...


You know what's really 'funny'?  The book that many call a 'fairy tale' with it's prophecies.

The inconvenient truth is that the prophecies keep coming true.  They came true 2,500 years ago with the Assyrian and Babylonian diaspora, the Persian conquest, the return of some to Jerusalem to rebuild a temple, the Greek conquest, etc. etc.  The destruction of the second Temple as predicted by Jesus, etc., etc.

*And the promise (prophecy) that the Jews would one day be returned from the four corners of the Earth back to Israel has and is coming true.  It is laughable that anyone would even begin to think that this process could be reversed.*

Going way off topic and on a tangent here: I am a Christian. I believe that Jesus Christ was the sacrificial lamb of the Passover for all of mankind to have forgiveness of sin before G-d.  Do I blame the Jews for killing Christ?  No.  Christianity was carried to and accepted mainly by Gentiles as their revelation.  The Jews have a different revelation.  The Jews are a chosen people.  Not 'chosen' in such a way as to be superior to the rest of the world.  No. Chosen by G-d to go through a bunch of bullshit that the 'fairy tale' book, the Bible predicted they would go through.  To prove beyond a shadow of a doubt to every single person (including those who deny G-d's existence) in the whole world that G-d is true, the book is true, and that every knee will bend and every mouth will one day *have* to confess to that truth.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > If you said so, it must be so.
> ...


*
Eventually, the Zionists are going to realize that they can't continue to deny the rights of 8 million Palestinians. 
*
8 million? I thought it was 80 million?

* if you go with one person, one vote, the Palestinian Majority will vote
*
Muslim citizens already have the vote, but why would Muslims in Gaza and whatever rump territory the 
Pallies are left with in the West Bank, ever get to vote in Israeli elections?

I mean they don't even get to vote in their own elections, after all.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 13, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> 8 million? I thought it was 80 million?



Didn't you get the memo?  That's next week.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Since Islam and Christianity are offshoots of the original Abrahamic religion, whose fault is that?



Wait, what?!  So if people come along and steal your religion and then do shitty things with it -- the victim of the original theft is to blame? 



> Guy, here's the thing. ALL religions are bullshit.  What makes Zionism particularly obnoxious is they use the bullshit to excuse some truly awful behavior.



Compared to Christianity and Islam?  Where is the "truly awful behavior" of having self-determination on your own ancestral and historical homeland?


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Guy, here's the thing. ALL religions are bullshit.  What makes Zionism particularly obnoxious is they use the bullshit to excuse some truly awful behavior



Zionism is NOT a religion, dip.  And by your omission, you are inferring that you think that Muslums are innocent of any wrong whatsoever, right?


----------



## Shusha (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Again, guy, here's how it's going to play out.
> 
> Eventually, the Zionists are going to realize that they can't continue to deny the rights of 8 million Palestinians.  Not in the face of world pressure.
> 
> They might try a "Two-State" solution, if they give up the West Bank, but then they would just have a state importing terrorists into their heartland every day...  and it doesn't solve the underlying problem.



No one is denying the rights of the Palestinians for a two-state solution.  They have no rights to continue to commit violence against Jews.  They absolutely have a right to a State.  In order to have a State -- you have to follow the rules of having a State.  Rule #1 is to stop attacking your neighbors and people in general because you don't think you should have to live next to someone who is Jewish.  The Arab Palestinians have no rights to commit violence against Israelis or Jews.  

Here's how its actually going to play out:

Israel is going to continue to assert authority and military and civil control over largely unoccupied parts of Area C, gradually increasing her area of influence.  (Perfectly legal, btw).  Israel is going to build, through this, a defensible border with its violent and unruly neighbor.   Just like Gaza, the "West Bank" will be contained and controlled.  There won't be any importing of weapons, except for some minor shit disturbing crap.  

(And Israel is entirely correct in defending herself from people like you who call for her destruction.)

Israel is going to continue to foster good relationships with Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and any other Middle East Arab/Muslim country that wants to come out on the winner's side of the upcoming moderate/extremist war in the Arab Muslim world.  

The Arab Palestinian government will have to decide which side of that war they want to be on.  If they side with the extremists -- they will be crushed by Israel and Jordan.  If they side with the moderates they will probably come out more-or-less unscathed as Jordan and Israel will subdue any extremists in their midst.  At the end of it, though, they might very likely be absorbed by Jordan.  (Which will be fine for all involved).


----------



## Roudy (Jan 13, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


A Pallywood photo taken in Syria of victims having nothing to do with Israel?  Is that all you got, lies and fraud?


----------



## Roudy (Jan 13, 2018)

Well. Getting back on track, here's more evidence of the imminent "demise" <ahem> of Isrsel, since Trump became president:

BDS getting flushed down the toilet...WINNING! 

S.720 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Israel Anti-Boycott Act

*Introduced in Senate (03/23/2017)*
*Israel Anti-Boycott Act*

This bill declares that Congress: (1) opposes the United Nations Human Rights Council resolution of March 24, 2016, which urges countries to pressure companies to divest from, or break contracts with, Israel; and (2) encourages full implementation of the United States-Israel Strategic Partnership Act of 2014 through enhanced, governmentwide, coordinated U.S.-Israel scientific and technological cooperation in civilian areas.

The bill amends the Export Administration Act of 1979 to declare that it shall be U.S. policy to oppose:

requests by foreign countries to impose restrictive practices or boycotts against other countries friendly to the United States or against U.S. persons; and
restrictive trade practices or boycotts fostered or imposed by an international governmental organization, or requests to impose such practices or boycotts, against Israel.
The bill prohibits any U.S. person engaged interstate or foreign commerce from supporting:

any request by a foreign country to impose any boycott against a country that is friendly to the United States and that is not itself the object of any form of boycott pursuant to United States law or regulation, or
any boycott fostered or imposed by any international governmental organization against Israel or any request by any international governmental organization to impose such a boycott.
The bill amends the Export-Import Bank Act of 1945 to include as a reason for the Export-Import Bank to deny credit applications for the export of goods and services between the United States and foreign countries, opposition to policies and actions that are politically motivated and are intended to penalize or otherwise limit commercial relations specifically with citizens or residents of Israel, entities organized under the laws of Israel, or the government of Israel.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 13, 2018)

I have posted this many times in many threads in the past. So much so, that I fear I am almost spamming the board with it, but here goes:

If the Palestinians would shrug off the shackles of their hate of everything 'Israel' and quit their violence and declare their nation within area 'A' as a peaceful new nation with no more malice to any of their neighbors, I bet that they could not only have area 'B', but perhaps much of what is left of much of area 'C'. Or with a true peace, they would gain very much in the world's eyes and for some of area 'C', there could very well be some swaps towards Afula and perhaps Nazareth as well.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 13, 2018)

There will never be "peace", the obvious solution will present itself over time...within two generations Israel will annex most of the "West Bank" because by then there will be more Jews there than Arabs, and turn over what's left (which will be a very small portion) to the Jordanians who will grant immediate citizenship to the so called Palestinians. 

And Gaza will of course be entirely Annexed by Egypt, Hamas and all related governing terror organizations will be decapitated, arrested, or killed. Both the Egyptians and Jordanians will be compensated for their troubles. The Palestinians will know not to fuck with the Egyptians or Jordanians based on past history.  Game, set, match.

WINNING!


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 13, 2018)

Roudy, while realistically that very well may be how it plays out, however we already know how it turned out in the part with Jordan granting the Palestinians citizenship. Doubt they will make that mistake again.

Nor will the Palestinians go for it again because I am sure they also remember how that turned out for them.

No. Their only hope at this point I believe is what I proposed.

And quick.

Before it is too late.

Tick tock.

Thanks much in part to the 'big orange'!


----------



## Roudy (Jan 13, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> Roudy, while realistically that very well may be how it plays out, however we already know how it turned out in the part with Jordan granting the Palestinians citizenship. Doubt they will make that mistake again.


Exactly, when the Palestinians tried to pull a "Jordan is my homeland" bullshit revolt in 1971 the Jordanians killed more of them in a few days than have died in the entire Israel Palestinian conflict.  Yet the late King Hussein dies an Arab hero and Nobel prize winner.

But you forget that already, a large percentage of Jordanians are Palestinians.

I think people who talk of "peace" are being a little naive, at best.  There is no other solution. Orthodox and religious Jews who have 10 kids per family (LOL) will continue move into what they believe is their rightful ancestral and religious homeland, aka Judeah and Samaria, while the Palestinian population will continue to decrease, mostly through migration to other Arab countries, which is how they came to Israel in the first place.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 13, 2018)

Shusha said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Again, guy, here's how it's going to play out.
> ...





Shusha said:


> They absolutely have a right to a State.


Indeed, and they declared independence in 1948.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


So the earliest unrecognized failed attempt occured in 1948, and they've been failing since. Must be crushing to face all the failures of the Palestinians, while Israel keeps winning and winning.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, and they declared independence in 1948.



And . . . ? Too bad they didn't get their collective shit together to make it stick.

Like Israel did.

In 1948.

Wake up tinmore. Or continue in your delusional mind set.

Or not. Which we all know that is where you are.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 13, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, and they declared independence in 1948.
> ...


Palestine declared independence inside its own defined territory.

Where is Israel's defined territory? Post a 1948 map of Israel.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 13, 2018)

Keep it up tinmore. Because you're good for some laughs I reckon.

I do not need to post a 1948 map of Israel.

Because Israel has a defined territory recognized by treaties with Egypt and Jordan, and in some ways Syria and Lebanon.

So again, please show the board where this nation of Palestine exists. Where it ever existed. With its own government. With its declared leaders. With recognition with a real seat as an independent nation at the UN. With its own currency, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. 

You can not. 

However this post of mine does not in any way attempt to deny that they actually could achieve this status.

It is you with your delusions and your twisting of the truth into your tiny little pretzel who is.

Get it yet?

No. You never will. We get that.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, and they declared independence in 1948.



And that government NEVER had control or sovereignty over any territory.  It had no effective presence.  It did not fulfill the criteria necessary for Statehood.  It was never recognized (not necessary -- but a clear indication of success).  It was dissolved in 1959.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine declared independence inside its own defined territory.
> 
> Where is Israel's defined territory? Post a 1948 map of Israel.



Israel declared independence inside it own defined territory, according to the treaties of the time.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 13, 2018)

Ever noticed, regardless of the party or politics or president, there's always unanimous overwhelming support for Israel both in the govt. as well as the American public, and ever since Trump became president, it has never been better!

WINNING!

U.S. $38B military aid package to Israel sends a message

http://m.jpost.com/American-Politic...issile-defense-aid-using-wartime-funds-514513
2018 National Defense Authorization Act to include $705 million for US-Israel missile defense cooperation.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 13, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> Keep it up tinmore. Because you're good for some laughs I reckon.
> 
> I do not need to post a 1948 map of Israel.
> 
> ...





teddyearp said:


> I do not need to post a 1948 map of Israel.


That's OK, you are not alone. That request gets ducked *100%* of the time by *everybody.*

Then everyone starts dancing.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 13, 2018)

Today's forecast for Israel....


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 13, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


*
Palestine declared independence inside its own defined territory.
*
They didn't have any.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 13, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> Keep it up tinmore. Because you're good for some laughs I reckon.
> 
> I do not need to post a 1948 map of Israel.
> 
> ...



I'm a coin collector.
I'd like to see some old coins from Palestine.


----------



## admonit (Jan 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Again, guy, here's how it's going to play out.
> ...


Many in Israel don't support it.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed, and they declared independence in 1948.
> ...


The government was but nobody can dissolve a state.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...


Link?

Of course not. You are just blowing smoke out your ass.


----------



## admonit (Jan 14, 2018)

Roudy said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy, while realistically that very well may be how it plays out, however we already know how it turned out in the part with Jordan granting the Palestinians citizenship. Doubt they will make that mistake again.
> ...


Why do you think that the Palestinian population in Judeah and Samaria is decreasing?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You need a link showing that Palestinians didn't have their own territory in 1948? DERP!


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


You made the claim now you are ducking providing proof.


----------



## admonit (Jan 14, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> If the Palestinians would shrug off the shackles of their hate of everything 'Israel' and quit their violence and declare their nation within area 'A' as a peaceful new nation with no more malice to any of their neighbors,


Pit Bull Terrier cannot become a poodle.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

admonit said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...


Ethnic cleansing.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Yes, I claimed the Palestinians didn't have their own territory in 1948. Or before 1948.

Do they have their own territory now?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


First you duck then you deflect.


----------



## admonit (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> admonit said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


That's exactly what Palestinians want - free from Jews Palestine.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


How do you prove someone didn't have something. You have to prove they did.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Yes, I failed to show you the territory that Palestine never had.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Read the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Why do you make a claim you can't prove?


----------



## Slyhunter (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Why don't I read the Encyclopedia Britannica while I'm at it.
What you just did was sidestep the issue. What you just did wasn't proving a damn thing.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Why do you?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Why do I make claims that you can't disprove?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...


They are only about a page each. Would you like me to provide links?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...








Here's all the territory the Palestinians never had.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Why does Israel always use those fake armistice lines for borders? The armistice lines were specifically *not* to be political or territorial boundaries.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Again, not proof.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Slyhunter said:
> ...


Did you read the armistice agreements?


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 14, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent! 
※→   P F Tinmore,  Slyhunter,  Toddsterpatriot,  et al,

As far as the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are concerned, the Armistice Line established are of no consequence, since they were only in force until the Peace Treaties were signed.



P F Tinmore said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

*Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, 26 March 1979

Article II​*

*The permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary between Egypt and the former mandated territory of Palestine, as shown on the map at Annex II, without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip. The Parties recognize this boundary as inviolable. Each will respect the territorial integrity of the other, including their territorial waters and airspace.*​
*The Jordan-Israel Peace Treaty was signed on October 26, 1994,*

Article 3 - *International Boundary
*
1. The international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein.​
You will find that, on close examination, the boundary with Jordan incapacitates the West Bank and Jerusalem.  And the treaty with Egypt encapsulates Gaza.

And with the exception of Area "A," and the Gaza Strip, the State of Palestine does not actualy have any other sovereign territory.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Slyhunter (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


You do understand evolution don't you? The old obsolete neanderthals die and make room for their more civilized populace who will build over their graves the future.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Slyhunter said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Nice duck.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
> ※→   P F Tinmore,  Slyhunter,  Toddsterpatriot,  et al,
> 
> As far as the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are concerned, the Armistice Line established are of no consequence, since they were only in force until the Peace Treaties were signed.
> ...


Where did Israel get the authority to claim borders on Palestinian land?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> As far as the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are concerned, the Armistice Line established are of no consequence, since they were only in force until the Peace Treaties were signed.


So then, where does Palestine leave off and Israel begin?


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 14, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent! 
※→   P F Tinmore,   et al,

Were did the Arab Palestinians get the idea that anything was sovereign unto them?



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

There is absolutely nothing (at the time) that ever indicated that the Arab Palestinians, sovereignty.  The two powers - having the control - decided through trial by combat.  THEN they agreed on the outcome and wrote a treaty to that effect.

Where did the Arab Palestinians ever get the idea that they had control over any territory since that never even had a decision on the establishment of any boundary at any time  in history?

Don't fool yourself.  The Allied Powers decided where the initia boundaries would be.  Then as a result of a conflict between the Forces of the Arab League and the Israeli Defense Force, Egypt and Jordan both, on an individual basis, made a settlement with Israel.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> The government was but nobody can dissolve a state.



Oh please.  You come up with such foolishness.  

Yugoslavia.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
> ※→   P F Tinmore,   et al,
> 
> Were did the Arab Palestinians get the idea that anything was sovereign unto them?
> ...


That does not change the Palestinians right to territorial integrity. Israel cannot win Palestinian land from Egypt and Jordan. And besides, it is illegal to acquire territory through war.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Read the 1949 UN Armistice Agreements.



You mean the one between Jordan and Israel?  And the one between Egypt and Israel?  Those ones?  The ones that prove that all those States exist AS States due to their ability to enter into relations with other States?  Those ones?


----------



## Shusha (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Why does Israel always use those fake armistice lines for borders? The armistice lines were specifically *not* to be political or territorial boundaries.



You are correct.  Here is Jewish Palestine (now called Israel):


----------



## Shusha (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Where did Israel get the authority to claim borders on Palestinian land?



When the government of "Palestine" signed the papers agreeing to them.  (Though they are not borders yet.  Borders are part of future final status agreements.)


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Why does Israel always use those fake armistice lines for borders? The armistice lines were specifically *not* to be political or territorial boundaries.
> ...


Eli E Hertz, 2005


----------



## Shusha (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You asked for a map of Israel as it was in 1948.  That's the answer.  Doesn't matter when the map was drawn.  You know, and I know that absolutely no legal change has been made to the borders of the territory since they were drawn.  

In 1948 Arab Palestinians had no government, no defined population, no sovereign territory under their control and no ability to enter into relations with other States.  Israel had all of those things.  As well as recognition.  And a legal paper trail going back to 1917.  

Your argument that Israel does not exist is one of the more foolish ones you make.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


I mean a map from the UN or an Atlas. Not an Israeli propaganda map.

It's complicated but go for it.

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 14, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent! 
※→   P F Tinmore,   et al,

You lost point here.  You're now into negative numbers.



P F Tinmore said:


> That does not change the Palestinians right to territorial integrity. Israel cannot win Palestinian land from Egypt and Jordan. And besides, it is illegal to acquire territory through war.


*(COMMENT)*

First, the Palestinian Right is NOT absolute.  The parties involved _are under no obligation_ on to do or not do anything that furthers Palestinian territorial integrity.  Where is the Palestinian territorial integrity?  The State of Palestine, which 

Israel, Jordan, and Egypt did not acquire territory through war.  At the close of hostilities, 'the parties negotiated treaties.  Decisions were made and treaties were written; as has been done for hundreds of years, and is still done today _(with a few exceptions made by Principle Major Powers)_.

*(NOW in the LAST DECADE)*

I would like to call your attention to the UN Memo 12 DEC 2012 (UN Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs).




 ​
For the purpose of this discussion, I would like to bring to your attention three key points that existed - prior to December 2012 (just 6 years ago), relative to A/RES/67/19 Palestine non-member Observer State 4 DEC 2012:

the (Ramallah Government) "Palestine" was "treated as an entity"   

"not identified as a State or Country"   

"nor could its authorites be identified as a government"
Your idea of "territorial integrity" is somewhat dubious.  While there was some recognition of the Wesyt Bank as an Jordanian holding, certainly, after the Jordanian withdrawal in 1988 (30 years ago) "Palestinian" was a legal "entity."  But it certainly had not sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shusha (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Yes, more of your silly games.  You've deliberately set up the parameters of the game to exclude relevant documentation which doesn't fit with your agenda.

You and I both know what the boundaries of the territory are.  You are I both know they have never been altered.


----------



## Slyhunter (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
> ...


God.
/Thread


----------



## Slyhunter (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Fuck the UN.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 14, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> Sorry, I thought it was the Palestinian leader's fault for following Islam, where no life is to be respected but only used for a greater vision.



do you also blame rape victims for wearing short dresses?


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 14, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> You know what's really 'funny'? The book that many call a 'fairy tale' with it's prophecies.
> 
> The inconvenient truth is that the prophecies keep coming true. They came true 2,500 years ago with the Assyrian and Babylonian diaspora, the Persian conquest, the return of some to Jerusalem to rebuild a temple, the Greek conquest, etc. etc. The destruction of the second Temple as predicted by Jesus, etc., etc.



Except all those "Prophecies" were written AFTER they happened.  

You really think the Bible was written in real time?


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 14, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, I thought it was the Palestinian leader's fault for following Islam, where no life is to be respected but only used for a greater vision.
> ...




I know the Palestinians like to portray themselves as the "eternal victims" but they are not.  They turn down every generous offer that is given to them.  Ever hear the saying,  "They never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity."  As far as violence is concerned, they've given as good as they've gotten, if not more so.  It's obscene to compare them to rape victims.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Wait, what?! So if people come along and steal your religion and then do shitty things with it -- the victim of the original theft is to blame?



Actually, the religion was shitty.  That's the problem. The Bible advocates genocide for "unbelievers".  There's the wonderful story of how God turned on Saul because he wouldn't commit sufficient genocide against the Amalekites. Thankfully for civilization, this noxious creed was limited to a strip of desert while the Romans and Greeks were creating civilization for us. Until the new Roman State Religion needed a backstory. "Hey, here's a bunch of cool stories, let's use those and shoehorn our fake messiah into it."  



Shusha said:


> No one is denying the rights of the Palestinians for a two-state solution. They have no rights to continue to commit violence against Jews.



Sure, they do. They have the right every people has to fight invaders and occupiers.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 14, 2018)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I know the Palestinians like to portray themselves as the "eternal victims" but they are not. They turn down every generous offer that is given to them.



Okay, 

Let's look at that.  

Let's say I chase you out of your house by force and shoot your dog. 

Then I say, "Hey, buddy, you can live in the unheated garage!"  

I don't think you'd consider my offer "Generous".  In fact, I think you'd probably still want to kill me if given the opportunity.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 14, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Israel declared independence inside it own defined territory, according to the treaties of the time.



Treaties written by white people from Europe?  

Jesus Christ, no wonder most of the world hates white people.  Listening to this kind of shit, I'm starting not to like them much, and I'm white.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 14, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > I know the Palestinians like to portray themselves as the "eternal victims" but they are not. They turn down every generous offer that is given to them.
> ...




70 years.  Time to move on.  My grandparents were forced out of Poland too.


----------



## JoeB131 (Jan 14, 2018)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> 70 years. Time to move on. My grandparents were forced out of Poland too.



And yet there is still a Poland.  Poland was in fact awarded territory from Russia and Germany to exist.


----------



## Humanity (Jan 14, 2018)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> I know the Palestinians like to portray themselves as the "eternal victims" but they are not.



And the Jews don't do that do they?

Or, perhaps, you believe that Jews are "eternal victims"?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What lines does Palestine use? Oh, right, imaginary countries don't use any lines.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > As far as the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are concerned, the Armistice Line established are of no consequence, since they were only in force until the Peace Treaties were signed.
> ...



Israel is there, on the ground. The only place Palestine is a nation is in your imagination.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> That's OK, you are not alone. That request gets ducked *100%* of the time by *everybody.*



That's OK, because the request to you to show us where the Independent state of Palestine ever existed with it's own leaders, it's own currency, it's own seat at the table of the UN, with peaceful treaties with its neighbors, etc., get ducked by *YOU 100% *of the time as well.  And then we



all over the top of your twisted pretzel.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ethnic cleansing.


Laughable and a lie.  Why are there now millions of 'refugees' when it started with less than a million?


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Where did Israel get the authority to claim borders on Palestinian land?


Sigh. Again, where is or was the Nation of Palestine?

Sigh, again, it sure would be nice if they would get their collective shit together and actually create a viable Nation.

As Israel did.

In 1948.

Too bad you will never get it.  Too bad.  So sad.

You do nothing to further the Palestinian cause here with your BS.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 14, 2018)

admonit said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > teddyearp said:
> ...


Christians fleeing combined with Arab Muslims migrating to neighboring countries, while religious Jews with high fertility rates move into the area.  By the time Israel annexes the "West Bank" it will be a fait accompli.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 14, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> It's complicated but go for it.
> 
> https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1045&context=mjil


Hmm, no map in that link.  Your point?


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 14, 2018)

JoeB131 said:


> Except all those "Prophecies" were written AFTER they happened.
> 
> You really think the Bible was written in real time?


Nice snip. You are a funny guy (or girl).

Please, oh please show me that the prophecy of the Jews being called from all four corners of the world to re establish their homeland and NATION in Israel was written 'after the fact'.

Can you do that?

NO.

Didn't think so.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 14, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > It's complicated but go for it.
> ...


The point is they can't face how well things are going for Israel so they start whining about land that was Ottoman territory for the last 700 years, then conquered by the British after WWI.  In other words, the Arab Muslims did not own or control the land in the last 700 years. 

Since Israel was reestablished, they have tried to destroy the Jewish state and commit genocide on Jews in their own holyland many times, and failed. 

And now that Trump is president, things are better than Israel than ever before!

WINNING!


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 14, 2018)

Humanity said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > I know the Palestinians like to portray themselves as the "eternal victims" but they are not.
> ...


Now now, Humanity, try not to get caught up in 'the fray' here. 

Of course, I should look at the plank sticking out of my eye before I complain about the speck in yours.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 14, 2018)

Roudy said:


> The point is they can't face how well things are going for Israel so they start whining about land that was Ottoman territory for the last 700 years, <snip>



Which reminds me of the thread I started about the Pasha.  You all know.  The one who drug the Ottoman empire into WWI.

I see again and again how inconvenient that truth is to the Pro-Palestinian crowd here.  That is why that thread never gained any traction.  Because in some ways, it *totally *destroys the whole 'narrative'.

Why?  Because the Pasha was a Muslim.  How inconvenient!


----------



## Roudy (Jan 14, 2018)

More...WINNING!

Pro-Palestinian resolution from New Orleans City Council creates backlash

*Pro-Palestinian resolution from New Orleans City Council creates backlash*

Mayor Mitch Landrieu, in a statement later Friday, said the resolution was "ill advised, gratuitous and does not reflect the policy of the city of New Orleans..."


----------



## Humanity (Jan 14, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> Humanity said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...



Oh come on Teddy... You knows I is only jestin' 

Too much wood around these parts... Think I need to get an eye wash! 

In all seriousness, I do find it 'funny' how the word "victim" gets thrown around as some kind of justification.

Oh and  to prove your plank is bigger than my plank!!


----------



## Ria_Longhorn (Jan 15, 2018)

May that day never arrive . . . for on that day -- heaven forfend --  the whole world dies


----------



## Roudy (Jan 15, 2018)

It's not going to stop internet jihadis to masturbate mentally five times a day to the demise of Israel.  Meanwhile Israel keeps moving forward and keeps winning!


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Some people did not get Israel's goofy memo.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 15, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Israel is imminent!
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

You are asking the wrong question...



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > As far as the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip are concerned, the Armistice Line established are of no consequence, since they were only in force until the Peace Treaties were signed.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

"Palestinian Self-Determination" is a case of:  Where do the Palestinian's _(their Government)_ maintain border controls and declare sovereign rights?

*IF* the boundaries of Palestinian are intangible or illusionary, *THEN* no Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE:  The demise of Israel is imminent!
> ※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,
> 
> You are asking the wrong question...
> ...


Palestine has international borders that have not changed since 1922.


----------



## fncceo (Jan 15, 2018)

Roudy said:


> More...WINNING!
> 
> Pro-Palestinian resolution from New Orleans City Council creates backlash
> 
> ...



Funny... I seem to remember a couple of individuals here swear that American Jews were anti-Israel.  

So... how could this happen?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > RE:  The demise of Israel is imminent!
> ...



And yet, still not a nation.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 15, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Israel is imminent!
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Well, actually this is another myth.

Few people have actually read the material on the meaning f "Palestine" in terms of the 20th and 21st Century.  Thus, those that want to believe that the term "Palestine" from 1922 and forward to 1948, was some sort of recognition of the people and not the territory.  They make this point in order to imply that "Palestine" was a forma country in 1922; which it was not.  And this terminology is a disparate notion to suggest that the boundary demarcations was some sort of international border established by and for the people of that territory; which it was not.



P F Tinmore said:


> Palestine has international borders that have not changed since 1922.


*(COMMENT)*

The territory of "Palestine" was established at the with the same assumptions used to author SECTION VII •
SYRIA, MESOPOTAMIA, PALESTINE • • THE TREATY OF PEACE BETWEEN THE ALLIED AND ASSOCIATED POWERS AND TURKEY SIGNED AT SÈVRES AUGUST 10, 1920 • Articles 94 and 95.  In those Articles, the stated intent was stated:

✪  The determination of the other frontiers of the said States, and the selection of the Mandatories, will be made by the Principal Allied Powers.

✪  [T]he administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers.

✪  The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, 

✪ _It being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._​_


The civil and religious rights in 1922 were not stipulated in that era; but those rights were not equivalent to those understood today.

The boundaries of "Palestine" between 1922 and 1948, were not borders, but recognized demarcations of the territory which was subject to the Mandate (Order in Council for Palestine, August 1922).

The intent was later reaffirmed twice again; once in 1948 A/AC.21/UK/42 • 25 February 1948 • “Termination of the Mandate” • and • The UN Legal Affairs Memorandum of 11 December 2012, related to the Issues of Palestine A/RES/67/19.  Even though this specific documents were written more than six decades apart they agree:
_
_✪  Palestine was treated as a legal "Entity" and NOT a state or country.  ✪  
_​_There is no question, they both agree and are on the record.

Periodically, pro-Palestinians attempt to use double-talk and the opinions of others that have poor scholastic research skills, to make people think that there was some authority that implies Citizenship or Nationality makes some critical difference on the matter of effective control or sovereignty.   If it were but that simple,the "Question of Palestine" would have been resolved well before WWII.

Most Respectfully,
R_


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 15, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
※→   Toddsterpatriot, et al,

I don't think the final chapter has been written yet.  It is obvious that the Arab Palestinians passed-up and opportunity to be a sovereignty, unto itself, in 1948.  But they emphatically declined with the threat of violence in their tone.



Toddsterpatriot said:


> And yet, still not a nation.


*(COMMENT)*

I think the powers-that-be will wait and see how much more territory the Arab Palestinians will trick themselves out of.  We call it the _(Principality of)_ Liechtenstein effect.  It may become the case that the ultimate solution will never come.  _[Lichtenstein is ≈ 160 square kilometers (62 square miles) were as the Gaza Strip is ≈ 365 square kilometers (141 sq mi)]_

If the economic conditions can be raised --- such that --- Palestinian Human Development can be invigorated to a level in the mean range of the surrounding states, that might move to render the issues irrelevant.  



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> The boundaries of "Palestine" between 1922 and 1948, were not borders, but recognized demarcations of the territory which was subject to the Mandate _(Order in Council for Palestine, August 1922)_.


Of course 1922 was before Palestine became a successor state to Turkey. The rules changed after the Treaty of Lausanne.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> If the economic conditions can be raised --- such that --- Palestinian Human Development can be invigorated to a level in the mean range of the surrounding states, that might move to render the issues irrelevant.


Israel controls 100% of the Palestinian economy. All travel and tourism, all imports and exports, all aid for economic development, must pass through Israel. Israel does not want any real development in Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> It is obvious that the Arab Palestinians passed-up and opportunity to be a sovereignty, unto itself, in 1948.


Another Israeli lie.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > If the economic conditions can be raised --- such that --- Palestinian Human Development can be invigorated to a level in the mean range of the surrounding states, that might move to render the issues irrelevant.
> ...



*Israel controls 100% of the Palestinian economy.
*
Except for the terrorism portion of the Palestinian economy, which is what, half?


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 15, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...




You make a good point.  If Israel really controlled 100% of the Palestinian economy, there would be no pay-outs to terrorists and their families, which is what's happening now.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 15, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

No "Successor State" was mentioned in the the Treaty of Laussane (1924).  Again, I suggest you don't confuse Citizenship and Nationality with sovereign control.  They simply are not the same thing.

The Treaty of Lausanne which, incidentally, had no former Ottoman/Turk inhabitant of Middle East or any Arab Nationality _(the populations which was formerly subject to Occupied Enemy Territory Administration)_ as signatores to the treaty.  The Treaty did not promise the anything outside that of the signatories.  There was no obligation made to the populations which was formerly subject to Occupied Enemy Territory Administration.

Relative to the status of the territory under the administration of the Mandate, the treaty made no difference; other than to legitimize what was already in place.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > The boundaries of "Palestine" between 1922 and 1948, were not borders, but recognized demarcations of the territory which was subject to the Mandate _(Order in Council for Palestine, August 1922)_.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

If you read the A/AC.14/8  UK The Political History of Palestine under British Administration  2 October 1947, you will notice that the History does not even make mention of the Treaty of Lausanne that is how important is was to ongoing administration.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 15, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
※→  P F Tinmore, et al,

Between 1949 → 1967, the economy was not run by the Israel.  While the political terrain may have changed after the Six-Day War, it was the Arab Palestinians themselves that reshaped the commercial, agricultural and small industry.  



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > If the economic conditions can be raised --- such that --- Palestinian Human Development can be invigorated to a level in the mean range of the surrounding states, that might move to render the issues irrelevant.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

It has been a half century of misbehavior by the Arab Palestinian that set the political, economic and trade conditions results in the outcomes we see today.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Hollie (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > The boundaries of "Palestine" between 1922 and 1948, were not borders, but recognized demarcations of the territory which was subject to the Mandate _(Order in Council for Palestine, August 1922)_.
> ...



You are still desperately clinging to the fantasy that the Treaty of Lausanne somehow, magically created your invented “country of Pally’land”.

It didn’t. It’s remarkable that you still attempt to perpetuate that fraud.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 15, 2018)

RE:  The demise of Isreal is imminent!
※→  P F Tinmore,  et al,

Oh yea, of course...



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > It is obvious that the Arab Palestinians passed-up and opportunity to be a sovereignty, unto itself, in 1948.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

These are the three biggies.  This is not including the three times prior to 1923 when asked to join a Tripartite Council on the establishment of self-governing institutions..

Copy and Pastefrom QUORA - Ask a Question


			
				UNITED NATIONS PALESTINE COMMISSION FIRST MONTHLY PROGRESS REPORT TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL said:
			
		

> •  *A/AC.21/7  29 January 1948*  •
> (d) The text of this resolution was communicated by the Secretary-General on 9 January to the Government of the United Kingdom, as the Mandatory Power, to the Arab Higher Committee, and to the Jewish Agency for Palestine. The invitation extended by the resolution was promptly accepted by the Government of the United Kingdom and by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, both of which designated representatives to assist the commission. The representative designated by the Government of the United Kingdom was Sir Alexander Cadogan. The representative designated by the Jewish Agency for Palestine was Mr. Moshe Shertok. As regards the Arab Higher Committee, the following telegraphic response was received by the Secretary-General on 19 January:
> “ARAB HIGHER COMMITTEE IS DETERMINED PERSIST IN REJECTION PARTITION AND IN REFUSAL RECOGNIZE UNO RESOLUTION THIS RESPECT AND ANYTHING DERIVING THEREFROM. FOR THESE REASONS IT IS UNABLE ACCEPT INVITATION”​



"The 1979 Egyptian-Israeli peace treaty, which was a land-for-peace deal, is important because it has served as the primary foundation for Israel’s strategic defenses in the Middle East for more than 30 years. It has also helped prevent the outbreak of another regional Arab-Israeli war. A similar land-for-peace deal between Israelis and Palestinians would further solidify regional security."  (Source:  Center for American Progress, 
*A Land-for-Peace Deal Is Still the Basis for Arab-Israeli Peace Agreements*  By Ian Bomberg Posted on February 14, 2011[URL='https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/security/news/2011/02/14/9030/a-land-for-peace-deal-is-still-the-basis-for-arab-israeli-peace-agreements/']* The Situation in Egypt Doesn’t Change What Works in Peacemaking*
 [/URL]


			
				Joel V Benjamin Answered Apr 3 said:
			
		

> Originally Answered: How many times have the Palestinians refused to accept having their own state?"
> *The second time was in the summer of 2000* US President Bill Clinton hosted intense peace talks at Camp David between Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat and Israeli leader Ehud Barak,
> 
> *The third time was in 2008*, after extensive talks, then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert met with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and presented a comprehensive peace plan. Olmert's plan would have annexed the major Israeli settlements to Israel and in return given equivalent Israeli territory to the Palestinians, and would have divided Jerusalem.  It would have created a Palestinian state on 97 percent of the West Bank



Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> Relative to the status of the territory under the administration of the Mandate, the treaty made no difference; other than to legitimize what was already in place.


Indeed, like citizenship, nationality, international borders...


----------



## Hollie (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Relative to the status of the territory under the administration of the Mandate, the treaty made no difference; other than to legitimize what was already in place.
> ...



Indeed, your usual re-writing of history.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> A similar land-for-peace deal between Israelis and Palestinians would further solidify regional security."


If Israel returned Palestinian territory, not just little pieces of it, there would be peace.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> This is not including the three times prior to 1923 when asked to join a Tripartite Council on the establishment of self-governing institutions..


The Palestinians had to legitimize the colonial project to be included as a minority party.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > A similar land-for-peace deal between Israelis and Palestinians would further solidify regional security."
> ...



Sure.  If one of the parties to the conflict is eliminated there is no conflict.  Why should Israel be the one eliminated?


----------



## Hollie (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > A similar land-for-peace deal between Israelis and Palestinians would further solidify regional security."
> ...



Just like there is across the rest of the islamist world. ISIS would invite their Islamist brethren over for tea and cupcakes (as opposed to slaughtering them wholesale), if not for Israel. 

Oops.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> No "Successor State" was mentioned in the the Treaty of Laussane (1924). Again, I suggest you don't confuse Citizenship and Nationality with sovereign control. They simply are not the same thing.


That term was not mentioned, however, the treaty followed the rules of state succession. Land, nationality, citizenship.

You are grasping at straws.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


Because Israel is the one inside Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> There was no obligation made to the populations which was formerly subject to Occupied Enemy Territory Administration.


One of the tenets of the Mandates was the non annexation of territory. The territory was ceded to the people of their respective states.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > No "Successor State" was mentioned in the the Treaty of Laussane (1924). Again, I suggest you don't confuse Citizenship and Nationality with sovereign control. They simply are not the same thing.
> ...



There was no immediate successor State.  That was the entire reason why the Mandate was put in place.  If there was a successor State (meeting all of the requirements of Statehood) -- there would have been no need for a Mandate.  The fact that there was land and people (nationals, citizens) does not make for a sovereign Nation.  More is required.  A government, at the least.  

Israel is (now) the successor State.  Why?  (Because I know your response is going to be:  Link?).  Israel fulfilled the requirements for Statehood.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Israel IS Palestine. 

But, sure, let's go with yours.  There are two groups vying for control of "Palestine".  By definition a civil war.  In nearly all modern examples of civil war between two (or more) distinct ethnic groups within a territory, the solution has been division of the territory and self-determination and sovereignty for both groups.  This invariably ends in peace. 

So why would you suggest that the only path to peace, in this particular case, is to give one ethnic group complete control?  It flies in the face of known successes.

And if only one group's control can lead to peace -- why should it be the Arabs and not the Israelis.  So far the Israelis have done a far superior job of ... well, nearly everything except martyrdom.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> One of the tenets of the Mandates was the non annexation of territory. The territory was ceded to the people of their respective states.



AGAIN!?  (Why do you keep posting outright lies?).  The territory was ceded to no one.  It was put under the control of the Allied Powers.  

The tenet of the Mandate was that no territory be ceded to external powers (meaning external States).


----------



## Slyhunter (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > A similar land-for-peace deal between Israelis and Palestinians would further solidify regional security."
> ...


The Arabs stole that land from the Israelites.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> But, sure, let's go with yours. There are two groups vying for control of "Palestine".


Indeed, the native population and the foreign settlers.

You can't squeeze a civil war out of that.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 15, 2018)

RE: The demise of Isreal is imminent!
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no law or coronation for the line of state succession in regards to territory.  Succession (of territory) is determined by the parties to the Treaty of Peace; nationality, citizenship follow from that understanding.  For instance, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is a self-governing but unincorporated asset of the US.  The policy status as a Protectorate → the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is under the jurisdiction and protection of US Sovereignty.





​If you look at the language used here, you will see the scope of a treaty in this regard to War Conquests.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > No "Successor State" was mentioned in the the Treaty of Laussane (1924). Again, I suggest you don't confuse Citizenship and Nationality with sovereign control. They simply are not the same thing.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

 Just to remind you that → it is not I that is reinterpreting the intent of a hundred year old decision making process.  You are attempting to supplant the documented intention to proceed with the reconstitution of the Jewish National Home; putting into effect the Balfour Declaration in the establishment of a self-governing institution for the Jewish people.  THAT was the stated intention of the Allied Powers a century ago → and even though it took a strange political route to get there → that  is what was done.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Roudy (Jan 15, 2018)

fncceo said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > More...WINNING!
> ...


Internet Jihadist propaganda talking points are quite delusional.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

Shusha said:


> Israel fulfilled the requirements for Statehood.


Not so. Israel did not have, and still does not have, a defined territory.

And, besides that, Israel's "permanent population" were recent colonial settlers.

And, Israel's government was established against the wishes of the vast majority of the people.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: The demise of Isreal is imminent!
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> There is no law or coronation for the line of state succession in regards to territory.  Succession (of territory) is determined by the parties to the Treaty of Peace; nationality, citizenship follow from that understanding.  For instance, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is a self-governing but unincorporated asset of the US.  The policy status as a Protectorate → the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is under the jurisdiction and protection of US Sovereignty.
> ...


What part of all that negates the Palestinian's universal, inalienable rights?


----------



## Hollie (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shusha said:
> 
> 
> > Israel fulfilled the requirements for Statehood.
> ...



You cut and paste your silly “Israel did not have, and still does not have, a defined territory.”, nonsense endlessly yet the facts contradict you. 

You have an unfortunate habit of rattling on with cutting and pasting that is contrary to fact.


----------



## RoccoR (Jan 15, 2018)

RE: The demise of Isreal is imminent!
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Are you arguing on the basis of an right? → or → Are you arguing on the basis of a treaty interpretation? 

Who owes the Arab Palestinians anything?  



P F Tinmore said:


> What part of all that negates the Palestinian's universal, inalienable rights?


*(COMMENT)*

What are the Arab Palestinians attempting to get?
Who are they attemptig to get it from?
What right gives them that authority to make the demand?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shusha said:
> ...


Can you post a 1948 map of Israel?

Can you post a current map of Israel without those fake armistice line "borders?"

Dance around that.


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 15, 2018)

teddyearp said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Except all those "Prophecies" were written AFTER they happened.
> ...


The 9th blessing of the Shemoneh Esrei...and nothing in Shemoneh Esrei doesn't have a source in the Scripture you're too lazy and Jew hating to look up yourself, you Jew hating POS.


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Can Arabs win a war?
Dance around that.


----------



## Shusha (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




Still this.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

RoccoR said:


> RE: The demise of Isreal is imminent!
> ※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
> 
> Are you arguing on the basis of an right? → or → Are you arguing on the basis of a treaty interpretation?
> ...


BDS has it down within legal framework.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Good question. They have been fighting for a hundred years and have not lost yet.


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


2017...Israel is no longer playing games; they're in it to kill.
That's why the Arabs are keeping away and that's why Israel no longer minds bombing the shit out of Gaza.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 15, 2018)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Israel is up a tree. They can't bomb BDS.


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


BDS?  You think BDS is making a dent?  Israel is only upset because BDS leads to Nazism.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 15, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



*They have been fighting for a hundred years and have not lost yet. 
*
Another hundred years of that kind of "not losing" and they'll all be in a square mile of territory in Gaza.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 15, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


This is nothing new.  Arabs are well known blowhards, every war they lost in a humiliating fashion, they've claimed total victory...and even held public victory marches over the rubble that was left of their cities and strongholds.  

Here's to more Arab victories...as we can see, the demise of Israel is clearly imminent!


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Israel thinks that kicking out the Palestinians is winning. The fact is that the Palestinians outside the country are more of a threat than those still inside.

Once Israel cannot bomb them, shoot them, or throw them in prison, it has lost all control.


----------



## Hollie (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Outside the “country of Pal’istan”? This does tend to reinforce the conclusion that your delusions, while they may seem real to you, suggest you need evaluation. As for Arabs-Moslems being a threat, well, yes. A politico-religious ideology that is fascistic at its core is an obvious threat.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Interesting that the Palestinians rarely ever mention religion.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




Interesting that Fatah (whom you think is Israel's puppet, cough, cough) rarely does...but your favorites, Hamas, do a lot.  Didn't they declare Gaza to be an "Islamic republic" in 2009?


----------



## Hollie (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What a shame you're unwilling to be honest.

The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

Introduction
Praise be unto Allah, to whom we resort for help, and whose forgiveness, guidance and support we seek; Allah bless the Prophet and grant him salvation, his companions and supporters, and to those who carried out his message and adopted his laws - everlasting prayers and salvation as long as the earth and heaven will last. Hereafter:


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2018)

Hollie said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Hamas is only 20,000 of 12 million Palestinians.

I realize that Hamas is Israel's current boogyman, but let's get real.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




The Palestinians elected Hamas, which you always mention.  You'd rather they represent them instead of Fatah.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2018)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


The Palestinians voted out Fatah because they sucked that bad. Hamas was the only option.

Something like how we got Drumph because Hillary sucked that bad.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Really?! Hamas isn't a Muslim Brotherhood based terrorist organization, that want to establish an Islamic Caliphate of Palestine (from the river to the sea) on top of a destroyed Jewish state?  What planet do you live on? Do you even know what the acronym H.A.M.A.S. stands for?

Hamas - Wikipedia

*Hamas* (Arabic: حماس _Ḥamās_, an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية _Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah_ Islamic Resistance Movement) is a Palestinian Sunni-Islamic fundamentalist organization.

Hamas was founded in 1987, soon after the First Intifada broke out, as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, which in its Gaza branch had been non-confrontational towards Israel, refrained from resistance, and was hostile to the PLO. Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin stated in 1987, and the Hamas Charter affirmed in 1988, that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine, including modern-day Israel, from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel.

It is regarded, either in whole or in part, as a terrorist organization by several countries and international organizations, most notably by Israel, the United States and the European Union.

*****Propaganda FAIL.

WINNING!


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2018)

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


All third grade name calling aside, Fatah is that bad.


----------



## Hollie (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Fatah is just another collection of islamic terrorists who rule by fear and intimidation. That is a typical situation across muhammedan'istan.

Islamics will actually vote in their oppressors on those rare occasions when islamics vote.


----------



## Roudy (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


More whining.  YOU claimed there was "no mention of religion" in the Belestinian movement, not me.

 HAMAS stands for "Islamic resistance movement" in Arabic, are you saying that translating what their acronym stands for is third grade name calling?

This exact kind of mentality of denial and lies is why Israel keeps winning and you guys keep losing.  Keep it up.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2018)

Roudy said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Almost all Palestinian political parties us resistance or liberation in their title.

I wonder why that is?


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


To fool anti Jews like you.

You are very easy to fool, as long as it is against Jews.  
Don't feel left out. There are lots of fools like you who chant Free Palestine, but they do not care to free Palestine from the Muslim Arabs who invaded the area.

Fools are a penny a bushel.  That is how common it is.
And when it is to attack Jews about anything which is invented about it.......the fools (you) come marching on at first trumpet.

So, how soon is Israel's demise and the return of all Jews to dhimmi status?


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Jan 16, 2018)

Sixties Fan said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...




I can't decide if Tinmore is a fool or a tool, as in Islamic tool.


----------



## Sixties Fan (Jan 16, 2018)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Sixties Fan said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Fool. 

 He is a Christian tool.  

Either way, still a fool.


----------



## teddyearp (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


Except their repeated screaming of Allah ahkbar every time they commit violence. Sure. That's never.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



*Israel thinks that kicking out the Palestinians is winning. 
*
Absolutely. And they aren't alone in that thinking.

*The fact is that the Palestinians outside the country are more of a threat than those still inside.
*
Muzzie terrorists are a threat everywhere in the civilized world.
*
Once Israel cannot bomb them, shoot them, or throw them in prison, it has lost all control. 
*
As long as that means they can't bomb or shoot Israel, that's a win.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Jan 16, 2018)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


Israel whines constantly about attacks from outside the country.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Rockets fired from Gaza don't count as "attacks from outside the country"?


----------



## Roudy (Jan 16, 2018)

P F Tinmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


And despite your claiming otherwise, HAMAS, the ones you root for as "legitimate" leaders of the Belestinian beoble, have their religion...ISLAMIC in front of resistance or bowel movement.  What kind of a delusional fool roots for a radical Islamist movement, in this day and age?  This is why Israel keeps winning!


----------

