# Guy's house is robbed multiple times, sets up an ambush, kills two crooks



## Otis Mayfield (Nov 28, 2021)

The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.

So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.

He sets up an ambush and waits for the burglars. He kills them both.

Justified?


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## EvilCat Breath (Nov 28, 2021)

Nope.




__





						Katko v. Briney--"The Spring-Gun Case"
					






					h2o.law.harvard.edu
				




Although I personally think it is


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## 9thIDdoc (Nov 28, 2021)

Absolutely. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.


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## Faun (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.
> 
> So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.
> 
> ...


As there's no duty to retreat in Minnesota, I would say shooting them would be justified. But he didn't just shoot them. He executed them. You're only allowed to use enough force to stop the threat. Seems he went beyond that and continued shooting them even after he stopped the threat. So in that regard, not justifiable.


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## Otis Mayfield (Nov 28, 2021)

Tipsycatlover said:


> Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I don't think you should kill someone over stolen stuff. They didn't kill simple thieves even in Jesus' day.

Bandits yes, but Bandits killed people.

But if you stole a loaf of bread, they didn't kill you. Maybe cut off your hand, yes, but you'd survive.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 28, 2021)

Americans are getting just that tired of being preyed upon.


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## Ringtone (Nov 28, 2021)

It would seem the repeated break-ins sent him over the edge.   This was definitely murder, but why did he record the encounter . . . what the _beep_?


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## sparky (Nov 28, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Americans are getting just that tired of being preyed upon.


while the cops are being told to either stand down, or have their hands tied by the courts

~S~


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## RetiredGySgt (Nov 28, 2021)

Most states have laws against setting up traps or ambushes. So by recording his actions he admits to breaking the law. If he had just not shown the evidence and not over killed the perps yes it was justified. but as he acted nope it is a crime.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 28, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Americans are getting just that tired of being preyed upon.



If Americans were really tired, they'd work to eliminate poverty, addiction and mental illness.  

This guy laid in wait and set a trap... which is premeditated murder.  

Now, if he flipped on the lights and told them to put their hands up until the cops arrived, that would be different. He just straight up murdered these kids.


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## TeeDub (Nov 28, 2021)

sparky said:


> while the cops are being told to either stand down, or have their hands tied by the courts
> 
> ~S~


He should have just "knee caped" them. Let them limp forever.


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## Anomalism (Nov 28, 2021)

The guy is definitely fucked up in the head. The audio is quite disturbing.


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## Crepitus (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.
> 
> So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.
> 
> ...


Not even close.  First degree murder


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## Otis Mayfield (Nov 28, 2021)

Ringtone said:


> It would seem the repeated break-ins sent him over the edge.   This was definitely murder, but why did he record the encounter . . . what the _beep_?



That was my thought too. If he didn't record it, he might've got off. At least with a lesser charge.

Can you imagine being on a jury and hearing what's on those tapes?


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## Ringtone (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> That was my thought too. If he didn't record it, he might've got off. At least with a lesser charge.
> 
> Can you imagine being on a jury and hearing what's on those tapes?


He was definitely justified to lay the trap and apprehend them, perhaps even shoot the first, then call the police, but it is clear that he executed them.


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## daveman (Nov 28, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> If Americans were really tired, they'd work to eliminate poverty, addiction and mental illness.
> 
> This guy laid in wait and set a trap... which is premeditated murder.
> 
> Now, if he flipped on the lights and told them to put their hands up until the cops arrived, that would be different. He just straight up murdered these kids.


It's not society's fault these kids chose to prey upon an innocent person.  Dry your tears.


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## Anathema (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> Justified?


On an emotional level… Yes. 

From a legal standpoint… Not in the least. 1st Degree Murder (x2)


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## Turtlesoup (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.
> 
> So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.
> 
> ...


YES..despite what the government says


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## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 28, 2021)

If the little shit heads had been shot after surprising the homeowner I'd be fine with it.
 Him recording the incident and what he said in those recordings put the nail in his coffin.
      The guy was obviously a sociopath.


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## JGalt (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.
> 
> So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.
> 
> ...



The guy is a justifiable idiot for reporting his shooting to the police.

Three S rule: Shoot, shovel, shut up.


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## Turtlesoup (Nov 28, 2021)

HereWeGoAgain said:


> If the little shit heads had been shot after surprising the homeowner I'd be fine with it.
> Him recording the incident and what he said in those recordings put the nail in his coffin.
> The guy was obviously a sociopath.


He was angry and felt violated that he had been attacked in his own home repeatedly..the criminals weren't going to stop until he made them stop.  The world is a better place without these two idiotic druggies.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 28, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> If Americans were really tired, they'd work to eliminate poverty, addiction and mental illness.
> 
> This guy laid in wait and set a trap... which is premeditated murder.
> 
> Now, if he flipped on the lights and told them to put their hands up until the cops arrived, that would be different. He just straight up murdered these kids.



  So do you believe those kids being were raised in poverty?
Of course not. They were searching for drugs.
    I wouldnt have had a problem with the guy capping the punks but he went overboard.
He could have simply wounded them and called police.


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## HereWeGoAgain (Nov 28, 2021)

Turtlesoup said:


> He was angry and felt violated that he had been attacked in his own home repeatedly..the criminals weren't going to stop until he made them stop.  The world is a better place without these two idiotic druggies.



  I won't disagree with that but he fucked up on how he went about it.
I mean seriously....recording himself as he shot them with no mercy is what sent him up the river.


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## hjmick (Nov 28, 2021)

Lying in wait. Premeditation. Not good. Not good at all...


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## MarathonMike (Nov 28, 2021)

Faun said:


> As there's no duty to retreat in Minnesota, I would say shooting them would be justified. But he didn't just shoot them. He executed them. You're only allowed to use enough force to stop the threat. Seems he went beyond that and continued shooting them even after he stopped the threat. So in that regard, not justifiable.


Agreed, he had stopped any eminent threat.


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## Circe (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I don't think you should kill someone over stolen stuff. They didn't kill simple thieves even in Jesus' day.


OF COURSE they did! They crucified them: the two on either side of Christ were thieves. 

I think everyone who does crimes against person or property should be tried and if guilty (and usually it's real, real obvious), executed at once. Just two rules: don't hurt people and don't take their stuff. 

This has in fact been the norm everywhere everywhen until quite recently (and still is all over the continent of Africa, though the southern part has no real courts, probably, and just kills them if they can catch them).


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## Circe (Nov 28, 2021)

I didn't bother to watch the video because we had a case very like this in my county years ago. The guy was repeatedly robbed, and he set up a booby trap with, ahem, a shotgun with a tripwire tied to the trigger, which worked quite well and shot the guy --- it was his nephew, who was a druggie and had been driven there by his dealer (yet again: it was their regular place to get money, apparently!!). The police found the driver, too. But I think there were penalties for the home owner on the basis of setting a trap. 

Many people felt he should be able to do that freely. I agree. People don't want to be trapped, don't rob someone's place.


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## Circe (Nov 28, 2021)

hjmick said:


> Lying in wait. Premeditation. Not good. Not good at all...


They didn't have to walk into it doing crimes ---- It WAS his own house. That part seems fine to me.


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## EvilCat Breath (Nov 28, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> If Americans were really tired, they'd work to eliminate poverty, addiction and mental illness.
> 
> This guy laid in wait and set a trap... which is premeditated murder.
> 
> Now, if he flipped on the lights and told them to put their hands up until the cops arrived, that would be different. He just straight up murdered these kids.


When you hear of an armed person killed anyway, perhaps with their own weapon, the tendency is to point out that guns don't really help anyone not be a victim.  It's more dangerous to have a weapon than be unarmed with an armed assilant.  That armed citizen made the disastrous mistake of saying "stop or I'll shoot.  Put the gun or knife down.  Put your hands up."   If you feel sufficiently threatened to pick up a weapon use it.  Quickly. Without giving the enemy time to react.


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## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.
> So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.
> He sets up an ambush and waits for the burglars. He kills them both.
> Justified?


This is an automated booby-trap. not a self-defense shooting.
Had the guy been in his building and he shot them after they broke in, it woudl be another story.


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## Otis Mayfield (Nov 28, 2021)

M14 Shooter said:


> This is an automated booby-trap. not a self-defense shooting.
> Had the guy been in his building and he shot them after they broke in, it woudl be another story.



No, in this case the guy laid in ambush and killed two robbers with deer rifle and a 22.


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## Jarlaxle (Nov 28, 2021)

Murder one with special circumstances.  Two consecutive life terms without parole in maximum security.


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## Jarlaxle (Nov 28, 2021)

hjmick said:


> Lying in wait. Premeditation. Not good. Not good at all...


Murder one with special circumstances.


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## Jarlaxle (Nov 28, 2021)

Circe said:


> I didn't bother to watch the video because we had a case very like this in my county years ago. The guy was repeatedly robbed, and he set up a booby trap with, ahem, a shotgun with a tripwire tied to the trigger, which worked quite well and shot the guy --- it was his nephew, who was a druggie and had been driven there by his dealer (yet again: it was their regular place to get money, apparently!!). The police found the driver, too. But I think there were penalties for the home owner on the basis of setting a trap.
> 
> Many people felt he should be able to do that freely. I agree. People don't want to be trapped, don't rob someone's place.


And hope the guy setting it off isn't, say, an EMT responding to a 911 call?


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.
> 
> So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.
> 
> ...


They broke into his house?  You bet it was justified.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I don't think you should kill someone over stolen stuff. They didn't kill simple thieves even in Jesus' day.
> 
> Bandits yes, but Bandits killed people.
> 
> But if you stole a loaf of bread, they didn't kill you. Maybe cut off your hand, yes, but you'd survive.


Fuck a thief, man.  I work too hard for my shit to sit back and let some no-good motherfucker just walk in and take it.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 28, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> If Americans were really tired, they'd work to eliminate poverty, addiction and mental illness.
> 
> This guy laid in wait and set a trap... which is premeditated murder.
> 
> Now, if he flipped on the lights and told them to put their hands up until the cops arrived, that would be different. He just straight up murdered these kids.


You'll never eliminate poverty.  Its impossible.  Look at the trillions we've spent on welfare and there are more people on welfare now than there were when it started.


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## Man of Ethics (Nov 28, 2021)

One of about 200 -- 260 justifiable homicides which happen each year in USA.

At the same time, guns are used in at least 10,000 homicides and 20,000 suicides per year in USA.


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## Wild Bill Kelsoe (Nov 28, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> One of about 200 -- 260 justifiable homicides which happen each year in USA.
> 
> At the same time, guns are used in at least 10,000 homicides and 20,000 suicides per year in USA.


If more people carried, there would be fewer murders.


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## Man of Ethics (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> I don't think you should kill someone over stolen stuff.


Agree 100%.  It is more like one of over 10,000 murders.


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## Man of Ethics (Nov 28, 2021)

Anathema said:


> On an emotional level… Yes.
> 
> From a legal standpoint… Not in the least. 1st Degree Murder (x2)


Agree 100%.

Not his first two.


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## 9thIDdoc (Nov 28, 2021)

Oh please, people. That would only have been an ambush if they had been invited in. Break into someone's home you have earned whatever happens to you. This was a Vietnam vet so he had to be an old guy-possibly with vision problems in the dark. A .22 is about as non-lethal as a gun gets, much more likely to wound than kill and he was almost certainly aware of that. Wounding an armed assailant is a very bad idea because they have added incentive and ability to kill you and, if he could not know otherwise, he would have to assume they were armed and had every intention of killing or crippling him. I am also an old Vietnam vet and in a similar situation-with multiple assailants and only a .22 with which to defend myself I would plan to shoot until there was no more noise or movement. For us old guys the possibility of a life sentence is not much of a deterrent.


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## Circe (Nov 28, 2021)

Jarlaxle said:


> And hope the guy setting it off isn't, say, an EMT responding to a 911 call?


That's what the sheriff said on another occasion, when a lot of farmers were assembled to talk about an arsonist who was setting full hay barns on fire. I was there, one of the very few women, because I also had barns stuffed with good hay! And was also pretty worried. The sheriff asked, I think rhetorically, "What should you do if you find someone you don't know in your barn?"

And 60 big farmers all growled in unison ------ "Shoot him."

"No! No, no, don't do that! No!" said the startled sheriff.  "What if it's a veterinarian in the wrong barn??"

About someone earlier pointing out the well-loved farm motto, Shoot, Shovel, and Shut Up --- All these guys had a lot of land and back hoes. The arsonist never showed up again; I don't know what happened to him, but I suspect we all have made a guess at it.


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## Mac-7 (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.
> 
> So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.
> 
> ...


He was tried and found guilty

the jury heard all the evidence and are better informed than anyone here

But I’d say they got what they deserved considering all the crimes they committed


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## fncceo (Nov 28, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.
> 
> So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.
> 
> ...



Hell, yeah...


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## M14 Shooter (Nov 28, 2021)

Relative Ethics said:


> One of about 200 -- 260 justifiable homicides which happen each year in USA.
> At the same time, guns are used in at least 10,000 homicides and 20,000 suicides per year in USA.


And used for self-defense at least 100,000 times per year.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 28, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Americans are getting just that tired of being preyed upon.


And far too many are needlessly resorting to violence.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 28, 2021)

sparky said:


> while the cops are being told to either stand down, or have their hands tied by the courts
> 
> ~S~


Yeah, those pesky Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Nov 28, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> If Americans were really tired, they'd work to eliminate poverty, addiction and mental illness.


True – but conservatives aren’t interested in that.

Besides, it’s more fun to kill people.


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## monkrules (Nov 28, 2021)

I knew a liquor store owner whose store had been burglarized several times. He began staying in the store overnight, waiting for the thief to return.

One night, about two in the morning, the thief came in through a window. The store owner welcomed him with a 12 gauge greeting. Killed the worthless mofo.

Don't know how he explained the shooting to the cops, but he got away with no legal problems. But the guy started drinking and always seemed kind of sad after killing the thief.


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## sparky (Nov 29, 2021)

monkrules said:


> I knew a liquor store owner whose store had been burglarized several times. He began staying in the store overnight, waiting for the thief to return.


we set up camera's around my mechanic's shop, who was hit _multiple_ times by local thieves .  last hit recorded car and perp (in hoodie)  , but cops claim the courts need '_full face_' recognition.  

all the cops_ know_ this kid, so do we , we even _know_ who he's fencing stolen goods to.  

my mechanic wears a 9mm now, cops are _all for it_!

~S~


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## CrusaderFrank (Nov 29, 2021)

Faun said:


> As there's no duty to retreat in Minnesota, I would say shooting them would be justified. But he didn't just shoot them. He executed them. You're only allowed to use enough force to stop the threat. Seems he went beyond that and continued shooting them even after he stopped the threat. So in that regard, not justifiable.


Oh, you mean like Ashli Babbitt, right?


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## sparky (Nov 29, 2021)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Yeah, those pesky Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments.


Remind me which one includes the '_right to law & order'_, next time some _'effin_ politician tells the cops to _stand down_ due to a* riot* Clay

~S~


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 29, 2021)

sparky said:


> Remind me which one includes the '_right to law & order'_, next time some _'effin_ politician tells the cops to _stand down_ due to a* riot* Clay
> 
> ~S~


The more the cops stand down, the closer we get to that condition that the leftist pansies are so scared of and actually think we're at right now, the lawlessness of the wild west.  I actually think that time in our history was a lot tamer than they think it was.  People had to be more polite when *everyone* was armed. 

The fun will really start when they have made the law so irrelevant that we actually become Wyatt Earp.  We will then be the law.  I wanna be Doc Holliday.

BTW, everyone in my neck of the woods *IS* armed.  Bring on the fun!


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## sparky (Nov 29, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> The more the cops stand down, the closer we get to that condition that the leftist pansies are so scared of and actually think we're at right now, the lawlessness of the wild west.  I actually think that time in our history was a lot tamer than they think it was.  People had to be more polite when *everyone* was armed.
> 
> The fun will really start when they have made the law so irrelevant that we actually become Wyatt Earp.  We will then be the law.  I wanna be Doc Holliday.
> 
> BTW, everyone in my neck of the woods *IS* armed.  Bring on the fun!


methinks we may be seeing the _tip_ of that iceberg OPJQ.....

~S~


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 29, 2021)

sparky said:


> methinks we may be seeing the _tip_ of that iceberg OPJQ.....
> 
> ~S~


Yep.


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## sparky (Nov 29, 2021)

i should add, i'm_ not _an anarchist , nor do i look _forward_ to anarchy.   

i'm a_ retired_ emt that stood behind _many _a cop doing their _duty_

it's a _tough_ job, requires a_ lot_ of patience , but when ya _need_ 'em, ya _need_ 'em......

~S~


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## Desperado (Nov 29, 2021)




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## Blues Man (Nov 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.
> 
> So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.
> 
> ...


This is an old case.

And I think he got convicted.

SO no it wasn't justified.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 29, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> This is an old case.
> 
> And I think he got convicted.
> 
> SO no it wasn't justified.


It is an old case.  He was convicted.  Justified or not, it will get more and more common.  The left has created something they cannot control for long.  Pretty myopic, but then............yeah................


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## Blues Man (Nov 29, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> It is an old case.  He was convicted.  Justified or not, it will get more and more common.  The left has created something they cannot control for long.  Pretty myopic, but then............yeah................


The thing is that self defense isn't justified if you manufacture the situation or if you walk up to a person who has already been shot and is no longer a threat and then shoot her in the head.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 29, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> The thing is that self defense isn't justified if you manufacture the situation or if you walk up to a person who has already been shot and is no longer a threat and then shoot her in the head.


Did I say it was justified?


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## Blues Man (Nov 29, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Did I say it was justified?


Did I say you said it was?


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 29, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Did I say you said it was?


Oh, we're going to play that game.  Fun.

NOT


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## JoeBlow (Nov 29, 2021)

Otis Mayfield said:


> The video is pretty long but there are a lot of details.
> 
> So this guy, Vietnam vet, good government job has his house robbed multiple times.
> 
> ...


If they were black, the shooter would get a medal.


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## Flash (Nov 29, 2021)

"Hey, lets break into a Vietnam Veteran's home and steal his stuff, what could possibly go wrong?"

Those idiots played a stupid game and got a stupid prize.

Justified!


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## Blues Man (Nov 29, 2021)

OhPleaseJustQuit said:


> Oh, we're going to play that game.  Fun.
> 
> NOT


Unlike most people here I don't make shit up and then say other people said it.

If I was going to say you said something I would use the fucking quote function.


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## OhPleaseJustQuit (Nov 29, 2021)

Blues Man said:


> Unlike most people here I don't make shit up and then say other people said it.
> 
> If I was going to say you said something I would use the fucking quote function.


Uh-huh.


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## Faun (Nov 29, 2021)

CrusaderFrank said:


> Oh, you mean like Ashli Babbitt, right?


No, not at all. She was a traitor attacking her own government and rightfully put down like the rabid dog she was.


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## Mac-7 (Nov 29, 2021)

JoeBlow said:


> If they were black, the shooter would get a medal.


The usual lib lie

The crooks were white, the white homeowner killed them, and now he’s in jail for life in spite of the Black LIES Matter propaganda


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## JoeB131 (Nov 29, 2021)

daveman said:


> It's not society's fault these kids chose to prey upon an innocent person. Dry your tears.



The fucker went to jail for murdering these kids... looks like you're doing the crying.


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## daveman (Nov 29, 2021)

JoeB131 said:


> The fucker went to jail for murdering these kids... looks like you're doing the crying.


The opinions of a Communist are worthless.  Run along now.


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