# Anybody else done with Dr. Who?



## TheGreatGatsby

Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.


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## Hugo Furst

I'll give her a chance.

She can't be any worse than Capbaldi, or what ever his name is


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## Juche

Are you afraid of women?

There are many women heroes in the movies shown in the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. The DPRK celebrates women - We are not afraid.


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## Harry Dresden

the shows writing has gotten worse since Tenant and show runner Davies left.....i dont see this improving it.....now the doctor will be a man trapped in a womans body....


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## MaryL

Well, Dr. Who is pretty weird, anyway, constantly being reanimated in a different form. If you by that, why not being reanimated as a woman? OK, on that same note, Secret agent 007 James Bond will now be Jane Bond. That might be a tad odd.


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## Harry Dresden

MaryL said:


> Well, Dr. Who is pretty weird, anyway, constantly being reanimated in a different form. If you by that, why not being reanimated as a woman? OK, on that same note, Secret agent 007 James Bond will now be Jane Bond. That might be a tad odd.


the doctor might get a different body but his mind is the same one he has had since the 1st doctor,he just has different personality quirks,but he was still a man mentally,now he will be a man stuck in a womans body.....and were did you get the Jane Bond thing?....


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## TheGreatGatsby

WillHaftawaite said:


> I'll give her a chance.
> 
> She can't be any worse than Capbaldi, or what ever his name is



Capaldi was the victim of bad sound engineering.... He didn't exactly have great companions either; hence the elevation of Missy. But to me this is somewhat beside the point. In a vacuum the new episodes could be good; but betraying the nature of the show to promote a political narrative is....whatever bad adjective.....


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## TheGreatGatsby

Juche said:


> Are you afraid of women?
> 
> There are many women heroes in the movies shown in the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. The DPRK celebrates women - We are not afraid.



I wouldn't have cared if they had brought in a woman time lord, so no. But casting her specifically as Doctor Who to promote the gender-less narrative is whack shit. I think we're all frogs in the boiling water. Three or four years ago if they had tried this, there would have been serious issues. But now that a generation of snowflakes has been cultivated....


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## TheGreatGatsby

MaryL said:


> Well, Dr. Who is pretty weird, anyway, constantly being reanimated in a different form. If you by that, why not being reanimated as a woman? OK, on that same note, Secret agent 007 James Bond will now be Jane Bond. That might be a tad odd.



Don't be surprised if they turn him into a flamer all the same.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Harry Dresden said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Dr. Who is pretty weird, anyway, constantly being reanimated in a different form. If you by that, why not being reanimated as a woman? OK, on that same note, Secret agent 007 James Bond will now be Jane Bond. That might be a tad odd.
> 
> 
> 
> the doctor might get a different body but his mind is the same one he has had since the 1st doctor,he just has different personality quirks,but he was still a man mentally,now he will be a man stuck in a womans body.....and were did you get the Jane Bond thing?....
Click to expand...


He's always been a man; tampering with his identity for the sake of politics is not what I look for in a show. It's no longer about the art. It's the same reason I didn't watch Two and A Half Men after Sheen was kicked off; there was not a premium on the show's essence any more.


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## Moonglow

I gave up the Dr. in the 1970's..


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## TheGreatGatsby

That's cos 'classic Who' sucks. Regardless, they betrayed the arc of the show. Probably the end of the line for me.


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## Harry Dresden

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Juche said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you afraid of women?
> 
> There are many women heroes in the movies shown in the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. The DPRK celebrates women - We are not afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't have cared if they had brought in a woman time lord, so no. But casting her specifically as Doctor Who to promote the gender-less narrative is whack shit. I think we're all frogs in the boiling water. Three or four years ago if they had tried this, there would have been serious issues. But now that a generation of snowflakes has been cultivated....
Click to expand...

the 4th Doctor had a female time lady for a while with him...Romana....one of his better companions,was smart like the Doctor and could pilot the Tardis....


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## BulletProof

I don't think I'll be watching any more.  I tolerated the homo stuff until now, but I think I'm done.  A female Doctor Who is pure Political Correctness that will infect every scene.


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## petro

The Doc went tyranny. Damn. Is it hot?


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## TheGreatGatsby

BulletProof said:


> I don't think I'll be watching any more.  I tolerated the homo stuff until now, but I think I'm done.  A female Doctor Who is pure Political Correctness that will infect every scene.



Been getting tired of the doctor's sanctimonious lefty speeches over the last four years or so. I was "tolerant". But as usual, "tolerance" just opens the door for the next measure of nonsense.


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## MaryL

I am a Trekkie, but Dr Who had its appeal. When the enscarfed Doc Tom Baker awakened my loins and my awareness. It's all make believe,  Who's identity changes all the time, so what's the big deal with gender? Ursula K. LeGuin and the her novel "Left hand of darkness" speaks to me as well on gender and science fiction.


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## TheGreatGatsby

MaryL said:


> I am a Trekkie, but Dr Who had its appeal. When the enscarfed Doc Tom Baker awakened my loins and my awareness. It's all make believe,  Who's identity changes all the time, so what's the big deal with gender? Ursula K. LeGuin and the her novel "Left hand of darkness" speaks to me as well on gender and science fiction.



What was the big deal of making a pro homosexual 'Beauty And The Beast'? Many fans prefer not to have the art so shamelessly politicized. The idea that the doctor can suddenly be any gender is not about the art; it's about political propaganda.


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## MaryL

TheGreatGatsby said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Trekkie, but Dr Who had its appeal. When the enscarfed Doc Tom Baker awakened my loins and my awareness. It's all make believe,  Who's identity changes all the time, so what's the big deal with gender? Ursula K. LeGuin and the her novel "Left hand of darkness" speaks to me as well on gender and science fiction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was the big deal of making a pro homosexual 'Beauty And The Beast'? Many fans prefer not to have the art so shamelessly politicized. The idea that the doctor can suddenly be any gender is not about the art; it's about political propaganda.
Click to expand...

I don't know, perhaps it's more about your awareness and not a fictional character, what difference does it make?


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## TheGreatGatsby

MaryL said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a Trekkie, but Dr Who had its appeal. When the enscarfed Doc Tom Baker awakened my loins and my awareness. It's all make believe,  Who's identity changes all the time, so what's the big deal with gender? Ursula K. LeGuin and the her novel "Left hand of darkness" speaks to me as well on gender and science fiction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What was the big deal of making a pro homosexual 'Beauty And The Beast'? Many fans prefer not to have the art so shamelessly politicized. The idea that the doctor can suddenly be any gender is not about the art; it's about political propaganda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know, perhaps it's more about your awareness and not a fictional character, what difference does it make?
Click to expand...


Doctor Who has become quite politically overt. Many fans have suffered it. And many younger fans have embraced it. Basically, this latest development is about them attaining a critical mass of liberal zombies and shedding traditionalists. I might cede your point if this was a new show and what not. But this show is more than fifty years in the making. The liberals own every other sitcom essentially; yet they still feel the need to be this brazen.


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## BulletProof

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Doctor Who has become quite politically overt. Many fans have suffered it. And many younger fans have embraced it. Basically, this latest development is about them attaining a critical mass of liberal zombies and shedding traditionalists. I might cede your point if this was a new show and what not. But this show is more than fifty years in the making. The liberals own every other sitcom essentially; yet they still feel the need to be this brazen.



Libtards are 100% intolerant.  They want to control everything.  If there's a popular TV show they don't control, they'll apply whatever pressure until they get concessions and then surrender. "Put a gay character in your show or you'll be blackballed..."


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## TheGreatGatsby

BulletProof said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doctor Who has become quite politically overt. Many fans have suffered it. And many younger fans have embraced it. Basically, this latest development is about them attaining a critical mass of liberal zombies and shedding traditionalists. I might cede your point if this was a new show and what not. But this show is more than fifty years in the making. The liberals own every other sitcom essentially; yet they still feel the need to be this brazen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libtards are 100% intolerant.  They want to control everything.  If there's a popular TV show they don't control, they'll apply whatever pressure until they get concessions and then surrender. "Put a gay character in your show or you'll be blackballed..."
Click to expand...


Maybe, ten years ago; now, they are beyond that. Just count how many gay guys are on TV. There's obvious casting quotas for this, now. Hard to watch a show that doesn't have one. And if they're not gay, then there character is gay or some big gay rights activist.


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## Harry Dresden

MaryL said:


> I am a Trekkie, but Dr Who had its appeal. When the enscarfed Doc Tom Baker awakened my loins and my awareness. It's all make believe,  Who's identity changes all the time, so what's the big deal with gender? Ursula K. LeGuin and the her novel "Left hand of darkness" speaks to me as well on gender and science fiction.


you like trek?....so in the new movie remake what if they made kirk a female.... christina t. kirk.....no problems with that?....


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## MaryL

Um, they have new incarnations of Trek with women as the predominant characters going back  many years. You must not be a big Trekkie. I think of commander Janeway.


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## BulletProof

Imagine the screams of these libtards if they made a Voyager movie but made Captain Janeway a man.


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## Harry Dresden

MaryL said:


> Um, they have new incarnations of Trek with women as the predominant characters going back  many years. You must not be a big Trekkie. I think of commander Janeway.


thats not what i asked was it mary?....try answering again.....


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## Windparadox

`
`
I watch sci-fi movie and programs as a form of escapism and entertainment. I refuse to allow bias, prejudice and politics to interfere with what I enjoy. I have no problem with a female Dr. Who or even if it was a Dalek Dr. Who, though I might imagine the latter would get old quite fast.


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## BulletProof

Windparadox said:


> `
> `
> I watch sci-fi movie and programs as a form of escapism and entertainment. I refuse to allow bias, prejudice and politics to interfere with what I enjoy. I have no problem with a female Dr. Who or even if it was a Dalek Dr. Who, though I might imagine the latter would get old quite fast.



You can't be entertained by what constantly attacks your values. You'd stop watching Doctor Who quickly if it went against your bias, prejudice, and politics.  

I'd have no problem with a female Time Lord, just not one that use to be male.  I didn't approve of the Master being turned female, but I could overlook she was once the Master.  She had a different name and acted very differently.  I won't be able to overlook that the female Doctor Who has been trans-gendered.


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## Windparadox

BulletProof said:


> You can't be entertained by what constantly attacks your values. You'd stop watching Doctor Who quickly if it went against your bias, prejudice, and politics. I'd have no problem with a female Time Lord, just not one that use to be male.  I didn't approve of the Master being turned female, but I could overlook she was once the Master.  She had a different name and acted very differently.  I won't be able to overlook that the female Doctor Who has been trans-gendered.


`
If you feel that strongly about it then don't watch it. Having said that however, there are some movies I feel that have forced PC in them that I do object to, the latest Ghostbusters for example but I saw it anyways. It sucked on it own merits though. Then there was the third "Fantastic Four", which aside from casting Johnny Storm as black, went so far off FF canon, aside from being miscast, that it totally bombed at the box office.


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## Fiero425

Windparadox said:


> BulletProof said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't be entertained by what constantly attacks your values. You'd stop watching Doctor Who quickly if it went against your bias, prejudice, and politics. I'd have no problem with a female Time Lord, just not one that use to be male.  I didn't approve of the Master being turned female, but I could overlook she was once the Master.  She had a different name and acted very differently.  I won't be able to overlook that the female Doctor Who has been trans-gendered.
> 
> 
> 
> `
> If you feel that strongly about it then don't watch it. Having said that however, there are some movies I feel that have forced PC in them that I do object to, the latest Ghostbusters for example but I saw it anyways. It sucked on it own merits though. Then there was the third "Fantastic Four", which aside from casting Johnny Storm as black, went so far off FF canon, aside from being miscast, that it totally bombed at the box office.
Click to expand...


It's started years ago with what we consider PC'ness! On "Doctor Who," they were initiating us to the idea of a female Doctor when the Master become Missy and Time Lord General went from an old white guy to a young black woman after the Doctor shot him to spirit Clara away!  - - Children Of Rassilon - - - Children Of Rassilon - -


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## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.



Well, they've already established that changing gender is something that can happen in regeneration... so no, that's not a big deal. 

I think the gender of the next actor (besides causing some problems for my choice of AVI) isn't really the problem the series has right now. I think the big problem has been some of the scripting going back to Matt Smith's last season.

So let me get this straight. You are okay with this show about a guy flying around in a magic box that is bigger on the inside, and can change his appearance... but you turn him into a chick and you lose your stuff?


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## Votto

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.



I'll hold out for the strung out on heroin Dr. Who that likes to bang sheep.


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## JoeB131

BulletProof said:


> Libtards are 100% intolerant. They want to control everything. If there's a popular TV show they don't control, they'll apply whatever pressure until they get concessions and then surrender. "Put a gay character in your show or you'll be blackballed..."



Can you cite when this was actually done?   Or do you think this is all a shadow conspiracy?


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## JoeB131

BulletProof said:


> Imagine the screams of these libtards if they made a Voyager movie but made Captain Janeway a man.



You work on the assumption anyone cares about Voyager all that much.


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## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Maybe, ten years ago; now, they are beyond that. Just count how many gay guys are on TV. There's obvious casting quotas for this, now. Hard to watch a show that doesn't have one. And if they're not gay, then there character is gay or some big gay rights activist.



Can you show us a copy of the casting quota requirements?  Thanks.


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## BulletProof

JoeB131 said:


> BulletProof said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the screams of these libtards if they made a Voyager movie but made Captain Janeway a man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You work on the assumption anyone cares about Voyager all that much.
Click to expand...


Half the reason Voyager was unwatchable was because of the woman captain, Janeway.

The owners of the Trek franchise bowed to political correctness.


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## Fiero425

BulletProof said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BulletProof said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the screams of these libtards if they made a Voyager movie but made Captain Janeway a man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You work on the assumption anyone cares about Voyager all that much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Half the reason Voyager was unwatchable was because of the woman captain, Janeway.
> 
> The owners of the Trek franchise bowed to political correctness.
Click to expand...


It always was to be a woman; originally should have been Genevieve Bujold, but bugged out at the last minute I guess! It was a great finale that can be watched over and over by me!


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## Fiero425

JoeB131 said:


> BulletProof said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the screams of these libtards if they made a Voyager movie but made Captain Janeway a man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You work on the assumption anyone cares about Voyager all that much.
Click to expand...


I caught it in syndication & was sorry I missed the original run back in the 90's! I'm thoroughly entertained!


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## JoeB131

BulletProof said:


> Half the reason Voyager was unwatchable was because of the woman captain, Janeway.
> 
> The owners of the Trek franchise bowed to political correctness.



Um, no, it wasn't unwatchable because Janeway was a woman. 

It was unwatchable because it had a silly premise, ignored Trek canon, had weak characters that were less likeable, watered down versions of TNG's characters.  



Fiero425 said:


> I caught it in syndication & was sorry I missed the original run back in the 90's! I'm thoroughly entertained!



It wasn't half as good as TNG or DS9, that's the point.  Or Babylon 5, Firefly or Farscape or any of the other really good SF Shows of that period.


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## Fiero425

JoeB131 said:


> BulletProof said:
> 
> 
> 
> Half the reason Voyager was unwatchable was because of the woman captain, Janeway.
> 
> The owners of the Trek franchise bowed to political correctness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, no, it wasn't unwatchable because Janeway was a woman.
> 
> It was unwatchable because it had a silly premise, ignored Trek canon, had weak characters that were less likeable, watered down versions of TNG's characters.
> 
> 
> 
> Fiero425 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I caught it in syndication & was sorry I missed the original run back in the 90's! I'm thoroughly entertained!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It wasn't half as good as *TNG or DS9*, that's the point.  Or Babylon 5, Firefly or Farscape or any of the other really good SF Shows of that period.
Click to expand...


I watched TNG & DS9 off and on, but as someone who lived through the originals, it was hard to get past some of the rip-off to keep the show going including splitting Riker into 2 separate entities! Doctor Who's reboot hasn't gone the way I would have liked with extremely long and painful story arcs that go on forever! I much preferred the stand-alone format! I liked "Blake's 7" over all of them even though just 52 episodes over 4 seasons!   - - Children Of Rassilon - -


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## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, ten years ago; now, they are beyond that. Just count how many gay guys are on TV. There's obvious casting quotas for this, now. Hard to watch a show that doesn't have one. And if they're not gay, then there character is gay or some big gay rights activist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show us a copy of the casting quota requirements?  Thanks.
Click to expand...


My argument was figurative in case you hadn't gathered that. Observational as well. This is not a secret either; only hacks are denying it.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Votto said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll hold out for the strung out on heroin Dr. Who that likes to bang sheep.
Click to expand...


I can't one hundred percent say I'm done with it. But I do believe I'm done with it. Changing the fabric of the show for politics is abhorrent; besides that, shows tend to become sh** when they do that, anyways. The Late Show With David Letterman is a prime example. He went from a zest for life type of guy to a crotchety curmudgeon / triggered twat virtually overnight.


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## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they've already established that changing gender is something that can happen in regeneration... so no, that's not a big deal.
> 
> I think the gender of the next actor (besides causing some problems for my choice of AVI) isn't really the problem the series has right now. I think the big problem has been some of the scripting going back to Matt Smith's last season.
> 
> So let me get this straight. You are okay with this show about a guy flying around in a magic box that is bigger on the inside, and can change his appearance... but you turn him into a chick and you lose your stuff?
Click to expand...


By established, you mean they announced it this season. No, that's not Dr. Who; it never was.

The fabric of the show matters. You dismiss it to play politics, you have no integrity. It's disrespectful to the fans. I was watching a story arch, not a glorified version of CNN.


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## JoeB131

Fiero425 said:


> I watched TNG & DS9 off and on, but as someone who lived through the originals, it was hard to get past some of the rip-off to keep the show going including splitting Riker into 2 separate entities!



Um. Okay. You do realize there was an episode where they split Kirk into two separate entities, right?  The one where Riker was split into two entities was actually better. 



Fiero425 said:


> Doctor Who's reboot hasn't gone the way I would have liked with extremely long and painful story arcs that go on forever!



I'm mostly happy with the DW reboot.  I didn't care for Eccelston, but Iike Tennant, Smith and Capaldi and I'm willing to give an open mind to Whittaker. 



Fiero425 said:


> I much preferred the stand-alone format! I liked "Blake's 7" over all of them even though just 52 episodes over 4 seasons!



I liked Blake's Seven, except for the ending where they did a big FU to the audience. (Spoilers).


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## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> My argument was figurative in case you hadn't gathered that. Observational as well. This is not a secret either; only hacks are denying it.



Do you have any figures to back that up?  

Never mind, I'll do your research for you. 

GLAAD - Where We Are on TV Report - 2016

Of the 895 series regular characters expected to appear on broadcast scripted primetime programming in the coming year, 43 (4.8%) were identified as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer. This is the highest percentage of LGBTQ series regulars GLAAD has ever found. 

Um, 4.8% of characters?  Given that 10% of the population is LGBT, that's really not a huge amount.


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## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> By established, you mean they announced it this season. No, that's not Dr. Who; it never was.



Actually, the first mention of Time Lords being able to change gender was at the end of Season 4, when the Doctor regenerated from David Tenant to Matt Smith, and he remarks, "I'm a Girl!"  and then grabs his Adams apple and realizes he's still male. This was in 2010. 

 in Series 6, when the Doctor mentioned another Time Lord named "The Corsair" who had changed genders during the time the Doctor had known him/her.  

And obviously, you have the Master (a long established character) regenerating into a female form in Season 8, which was in 2014. The previously established character of the General regenerated into a woman in Season 9, which was in 2015.  So your argument that it wasn't established until this season shows a lack of knowledge of the show's lore. 



TheGreatGatsby said:


> The fabric of the show matters. You dismiss it to play politics, you have no integrity. It's disrespectful to the fans. I was watching a story arch, not a glorified version of CNN.



I don't see how that changes the "Fabric" of the show.  I think what bothers you is that it will change the dynamic.  Before it was mostly female companions asking the dumb questions and needing to be saved by a male doctor.  They really haven't announced companions yet, so we can assume the next companion is going to be male. It hurts their masculinity if a woman saves them? 

Now, there's a lot of reasons why this could be a mess. Whitakker might not be up to the role, it's actually a tough character to play, and we've had some awful actors in it. (Anyone else remember Colin Baker?) 

It might also be that they have run out of ideas.  HOw many times can the Daleks or Cybermen show up and still be interesting?  

Your problem seems to be that you are terribly upset that it's a woman to start with, not that this may or may not be the best actor for the role.


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## Fiero425

JoeB131 said:


> Fiero425 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watched TNG & DS9 off and on, but as someone who lived through the originals, it was hard to get past some of the rip-off to keep the show going including splitting Riker into 2 separate entities!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um. Okay. You do realize there was an episode where they split Kirk into two separate entities, right?  The one where Riker was split into two entities was actually better.
> 
> 
> 
> Fiero425 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Doctor Who's reboot hasn't gone the way I would have liked with extremely long and painful story arcs that go on forever!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm mostly happy with the DW reboot.  I didn't care for Eccelston, but Iike Tennant, Smith and Capaldi and I'm willing to give an open mind to Whittaker.
> 
> 
> 
> Fiero425 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I much preferred the stand-alone format! I liked "Blake's 7" over all of them even though just 52 episodes over 4 seasons!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I liked Blake's Seven, except for the *ending where they did a big FU to the audience*. (Spoilers).
Click to expand...


We were lucky to get that last season and a finale altogether! They didn't return for taping on schedule; actually an extra 6 months went by before they rapped things up with that finale that was one of the best IMO! A friend warned me ahead of time, but it was still a shock and emotional to me anyway! I still get a little verklempt thinking about it and seeing it I become a puddle! Like Darrow, I always thought there was a chance they could do a reboot; heaven knows the radio-cast of _"Logic Of Empire"_ gave them a storyline of the resistance breaking Avon out of a dungeon after 12 years of imprisonment! Remember, ORAC was still out there; ya just had all kinds of possibilities! _"The Mark Of Kane"_ also explained where Blake and Jenna were all that time after _"Star One!" _I saw AD pictures and a clip of a re-boot 15 years ago, but it didn't go anywhere! Darrow tried his hardest, but it just wasn't to be! _   _

- -  - - Logic of Empire (4 parts)

- -  - - The Mark Of Kane (4 parts)


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## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> My argument was figurative in case you hadn't gathered that. Observational as well. This is not a secret either; only hacks are denying it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any figures to back that up?
> 
> Never mind, I'll do your research for you.
> 
> GLAAD - Where We Are on TV Report - 2016
> 
> Of the 895 series regular characters expected to appear on broadcast scripted primetime programming in the coming year, 43 (4.8%) were identified as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer. This is the highest percentage of LGBTQ series regulars GLAAD has ever found.
> 
> Um, 4.8% of characters?  Given that 10% of the population is LGBT, that's really not a huge amount.
Click to expand...


And how many of those "straight" or otherwise non sexually identified characters are played by persons who are obviously gay? Yea, your misleading numbers don't mean sh**. Big surprise.


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## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> Actually, the first mention of Time Lords being able to change gender was at the end of Season 4, when the Doctor regenerated from David Tenant to Matt Smith, and he remarks, "I'm a Girl!"  and then grabs his Adams apple and realizes he's still male. This was in 2010.



That was a joke, bro. Nice try.


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## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> I don't see how that changes the "Fabric" of the show.  I think what bothers you is that it will change the dynamic.  Before it was mostly female companions asking the dumb questions and needing to be saved by a male doctor.  They really haven't announced companions yet, so we can assume the next companion is going to be male. It hurts their masculinity if a woman saves them?



It wasn't quite a concern even on my radar. But yea, I'm the SJWs love to belittle masculinity like this.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> Your problem seems to be that *you are terribly upset that it's a woman to start with*, not that this may or may not be the best actor for the role.



And you base this on? Feel free to give a fictitious answer; but in case you don't, I'll state the obvious; that you're shamelessly projecting.


----------



## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> And how many of those "straight" or otherwise non sexually identified characters are played by persons who are obviously gay? Yea, your misleading numbers don't mean sh**. Big surprise.



I'm not sure what you mean by obviously gay... I worked for a woman for two years and had no idea she was gay.  

yes, a lot of actors are gay. Because when you spend your life pretending to be something you are not, to hide from assholes like you who would do them harm because of your own sexual insecurities, pretending to be a spaceship captain is probably easy. 



TheGreatGatsby said:


> That was a joke, bro. Nice try.



Oh, really. I thought you were just demonstrating your ignorance of the show. 



TheGreatGatsby said:


> It wasn't quite a concern even on my radar. But yea, I'm the SJWs love to belittle masculinity like this.



How does it belittle a guy to be saved by a hero with 2000 years of experience fighting space monsters?  

If Daleks or Cybermen were real, we'd actually be in a lot of trouble.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Good news for some, bad news for others

Jodie will be back as Dr Who in 2020


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Juche said:


> Are you afraid of women?
> 
> There are many women heroes in the movies shown in the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. The DPRK celebrates women - We are not afraid.



LOL!!


----------



## Harry Dresden

CrusaderFrank said:


> Juche said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you afraid of women?
> 
> There are many women heroes in the movies shown in the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. The DPRK celebrates women - We are not afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!!
Click to expand...

like this juche is from n.korea....


----------



## JoeB131

WillHaftawaite said:


> Good news for some, bad news for others
> 
> Jodie will be back as Dr Who in 2020



Well, I hope they get better writers next season.

this season was kind of "bleh".  

I don't think Jodie is the problem, I think the writing is.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Gonna be honest, I followed through and didn't watch the fundamentally changed Dr. Who.
Am I too rigid? It just seems that politics was more important than the art; and I can't stand that.


----------



## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Gonna be honest, I followed through and didn't watch the fundamentally changed Dr. Who.
> Am I too rigid? It just seems that politics was more important than the art; and I can't stand that.



I'm sure you wouldn't have enjoyed it.  

The problem I see with the last two seasons is that they seemed to want to shake things up for no other reason than to shake them up.  (Spoilers ahead)

They retconned the whole history of the Doctor (She is now an immortal being that had many incarnations before the First Doctor played by William Hartnell).  They destroyed Galifrey again.  (Rendering the heroics of the 50th Anniversary Special meaningless.) They brought back the Master again (he's back to being a dude) but he's boring as shit and they dumped all the character development they did in Seasons 8-10.  

Much like the people currently running Star Wars and Star Trek, they seem intent on flipping off their mostly white male fan base.


----------



## Fiero425

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Gonna be honest, I followed through and didn't watch the fundamentally changed Dr. Who.
> Am I too rigid? It just seems that politics was more important than the art; and I can't stand that.



I've been a serious "DW" devotee for decades! My college roommate hipped me up to it in '79 since I was a Sci-Fi bug! Baker was _"the man"_ and I knitted my own DW scarf by '83 after seeing the pattern in the newspapers! I stayed with it thru the lean years with Colin B. and McCoy, survived that horrible movie in '96, and looked forward to a rebirth when re-booted in '05! I taped each episode to Beta and VHS format thru all that, creating a fan page adding other faves of _"Blake's 7"_ and _"Earth: The Final Battle!"_ I felt they were testing out having a woman as the Doctor years ago; esp. when The Master came back as Missy! I've half-heartedly watched, but haven't taped it as reliably as I would have in the past! Had to take mom to ER on New Years so I missed that episode with the Daleks and after all this time I can't say I'm missing anything! I haven't seen a repeat, but not exactly looking hard! I'm a senior now and past it with this show I guess!


----------



## Hugo Furst

They did a phone survey, to determine which was the best Doctor.









						David Tennant only just beats Jodie Whittaker to be voted the best ever Doctor Who
					

David Tennant has been voted the best ever Doctor in the veteran BBC sci-fi series Doctor Who.




					www.yahoo.com
				




Their results:


1 - David Tennant 10518 / 21%

2 - Jodie Whittaker 10423 / 21%

3 - Peter Capaldi 8897 / 18%

4 - Matt Smith 7637 / 16%

5 - Tom Baker 3977 / 8%

6 - William Hartnell 1983 / 4%

7 - Paul McGann 1427 / 3%

8 - Christopher Eccleston 1144 / 2%

9 - Jon Pertwee 1038 / 2%

10 - Patrick Troughton 915 / 2%

11 - Sylvester McCoy 462 / 1%

12 - Colin Baker 359 / 1%

13 - Peter Davison 351 / 1%


----------



## JoeB131

WillHaftawaite said:


> They did a phone survey, to determine which was the best Doctor.



Kind of meaningless, as most of the fans abandoned the show a long time ago.  

I mean, I don't mind Tennant, but he was hardly the best.


----------



## Hugo Furst

For me, Tennant was the best.

Then Baker, Pertwee, Smith.

The rest all come in #4, with Capaldi at #5,


----------



## JoeB131

WillHaftawaite said:


> For me, Tennant was the best.
> 
> Then Baker, Pertwee, Smith.
> 
> The rest all come in #4, with Capaldi at #5,



If I were to rate them. 

Tom Baker- Still the best. 
Matt Smith
Jon Pertwee
Tennant
Capaldi
Davison

Whitaker, on the other hand, is just awful. I'm not sure if it's the writing or the actress, but she's really ruined the show for me.


----------



## Hugo Furst

JoeB131 said:


> WillHaftawaite said:
> 
> 
> 
> For me, Tennant was the best.
> 
> Then Baker, Pertwee, Smith.
> 
> The rest all come in #4, with Capaldi at #5,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I were to rate them.
> 
> Tom Baker- Still the best.
> Matt Smith
> Jon Pertwee
> Tennant
> Capaldi
> Davison
> 
> Whitaker, on the other hand, is just awful. I'm not sure if it's the writing or the actress, but she's really ruined the show for me.
Click to expand...


Best part of Matt Smiths run was Karen Gillan.

Only decent part of Capaldis run was Jenna Coleman.


----------



## JoeB131

WillHaftawaite said:


> Best part of Matt Smiths run was Karen Gillan.
> 
> Only decent part of Capaldis run was Jenna Coleman.



They were both fine actresses, which is why they've gone on to have solid careers after leaving the Tardis.  

I liked Matt Smith's Doctor because he was fun, quirky and kind of heroic.  The best tribute to him in the role is when he took the job, people said he was too young to play the Doctor, and when he was replaced by Capaldi, people said Capaldi was too old for the role.  

I really do like Capaldi's Doctor as well, although I know it puts me in the minority of fandom.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

WillHaftawaite said:


> They did a phone survey, to determine which was the best Doctor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Tennant only just beats Jodie Whittaker to be voted the best ever Doctor Who
> 
> 
> David Tennant has been voted the best ever Doctor in the veteran BBC sci-fi series Doctor Who.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their results:
> 
> 
> 1 - David Tennant 10518 / 21%
> 
> 2 - Jodie Whittaker 10423 / 21%
> 
> 3 - Peter Capaldi 8897 / 18%
> 
> 4 - Matt Smith 7637 / 16%
> 
> 5 - Tom Baker 3977 / 8%
> 
> 6 - William Hartnell 1983 / 4%
> 
> 7 - Paul McGann 1427 / 3%
> 
> 8 - Christopher Eccleston 1144 / 2%
> 
> 9 - Jon Pertwee 1038 / 2%
> 
> 10 - Patrick Troughton 915 / 2%
> 
> 11 - Sylvester McCoy 462 / 1%
> 
> 12 - Colin Baker 359 / 1%
> 
> 13 - Peter Davison 351 / 1%



Can't trust the Jodie Whitaker vote because SJW's may be stacking the deck on that. Though I have liked her in the other stuff I've seen her in. So I would imagine she did well regardless of my objections to the politics.

Misty loved DT so much that she would not watch others at last check.

I thought Matt Smith Was brilliant all the same. I liked Peter Capaldi. But the sound production got all jacked up when he was the doctor, and it put a damper on it. But he maybe had the best sidekick with Jenna Coleman.

I frankly don't know the pre 2005 doctors. But I'm willing to say Chris Eccleston got the shaft in that ranking. I could make a case he was the best. Being doctor for only one season seems to hurt his case for most though.


----------



## Turtlesoup

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.


used to love the show till they got that old Dr Who-----stopped watching years ago before the woman.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Turtlesoup said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> used to love the show till they got that old Dr Who-----stopped watching years ago before the woman.
Click to expand...


Wasn't a fan of that decision either. But at least it made some sense. And Peter actually did a really good job.

Changing gender as if biology is hokey just ripped my heart out. At least it prepared me for the sh** in the world that's went on since.


----------



## citygator

BSG turned Starbuck into a chick and that turned out spectacular. Best sci-fi show ever or at least top 5.


----------



## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Changing gender as if biology is hokey just ripped my heart out. At least it prepared me for the sh** in the world that's went on since.



So wait, once again. 

You're willing to accept this character travels through time and space in a phone booth that is bigger on the inside, that he can change over his entire body if injured, and he fights evil Pepper Shakers with a screwdriver, but the minute he turns into a she, you're out.  



citygator said:


> BSG turned Starbuck into a chick and that turned out spectacular. Best sci-fi show ever or at least top 5.



Given that the original BSG was just a post-Star Wars cash grab, it wasn't hard to improve on.  Frankly, I couldn't get into it because it was too similar to the original "Mormons in Space" version.


----------



## 22lcidw

citygator said:


> BSG turned Starbuck into a chick and that turned out spectacular. Best sci-fi show ever or at least top 5.


That show was overrated. I kept watching it and it felt like it could have been a 5 part miniseries at 2 hours a night and told a better story.


----------



## citygator

JoeB131 said:


> Given that the original BSG was just a post-Star Wars cash grab, it wasn't hard to improve on. Frankly, I couldn't get into it because it was too similar to the original "Mormons in Space" version.





22lcidw said:


> That show was overrated. I kept watching it and it felt like it could have been a 5 part miniseries at 2 hours a night and told a better story.


To each their own but that was one of the most well thought out and well acted space dramas in history ( I know low bar). Was very weighty on religion, refugees, class, and what it means to be.. human. 

Torchwood on the other hand was just fun.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Changing gender as if biology is hokey just ripped my heart out. At least it prepared me for the sh** in the world that's went on since.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So wait, once again.
> 
> You're willing to accept this character travels through time and space in a phone booth that is bigger on the inside, that he can change over his entire body if injured, and he fights evil Pepper Shakers with a screwdriver, but the minute he turns into a she, you're out.
> 
> 
> 
> citygator said:
> 
> 
> 
> BSG turned Starbuck into a chick and that turned out spectacular. Best sci-fi show ever or at least top 5.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Given that the original BSG was just a post-Star Wars cash grab, it wasn't hard to improve on.  Frankly, I couldn't get into it because it was too similar to the original "Mormons in Space" version.
Click to expand...


What does traveling through time and space have to do with gender biology? I don't care about your bleeding heart sh**, Joe. I think you know that at this point.


----------



## fncceo

Doctor Who only had a following in the US because of the great Science Fiction Drought of 1968 to 1977 where the only SciFi available to US audiences was cheaply produced shows from the UK and (even worse) Canada.

The years between "2001: A Space Odyssey" and "Star Wars" were dismal, bleak, and left many a US SciFi fan hungry for anything they could get their hands on.

"Space 1999", the abominal "Starlost", and yes, "Doctor Who" was all we had to sustain us in the dark times.

So, like the ex-GI to whom SPAM and SOS brings back memories of a harder, but happier, time.  Some of us still follow "Doctor Who" despite the fact that its cheesier than a Little Cesear's Stuff Crust with extra mozzarella.


----------



## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> What does traveling through time and space have to do with gender biology? I don't care about your bleeding heart sh**, Joe. I think you know that at this point.



I think you are more worked up about it than you think.  

To me, it wasn't that big of a deal, as they had previously established Timelords can change gender when they regenerate.  

I'm more concerned with the poor writing and general disregard for canon....


----------



## TheGreatGatsby




----------



## Hugo Furst

Read an article on Yahoo the other day....

Jodi plans on leaving soon.


----------



## JoeB131

WillHaftawaite said:


> Read an article on Yahoo the other day....
> 
> Jodi plans on leaving soon.



But that's normal.  They usually do three seasons and leave.   It's referred to as the Troughton Rule, from the Second Actor to play the role.  Some played it longer (and got typecast) and others got pushed out the Tardis Door early.  

Whitless should have been pushed out the door early.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

WillHaftawaite said:


> Read an article on Yahoo the other day....
> 
> Jodi plans on leaving soon.



Because she sucks and everyone knows it.


----------



## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Because she sucks and everyone knows it.



Or she just did her three years like every other actor who has played the role. 

Again, I don't think she's the problem, I think it's the writing. 

That and the fact that after nearly sixty years, how do you keep any of it fresh.  

Last seasons big deal was "the Master is back".  This is about Fifth time they've brought back the Master.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because she sucks and everyone knows it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or she just did her three years like every other actor who has played the role.
> 
> Again, I don't think she's the problem, I think it's the writing.
> 
> That and the fact that after nearly sixty years, how do you keep any of it fresh.
> 
> Last seasons big deal was "the Master is back".  This is about Fifth time they've brought back the Master.
Click to expand...


Writing may suck. But it sounds like she didn't bring anything to the table.

Again, changing the fabric of the show via having a female doctor is a slap in the face to the real fans in the first place.


----------



## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Writing may suck. But it sounds like she didn't bring anything to the table.
> 
> Again, changing the fabric of the show via having a female doctor is a slap in the face to the real fans in the first place.



The best actor in the world can't solve awful writing.  

Peter Capaldi was a fantastic, highly experienced actor who was already well-loved for other roles.  

Yet people really didn't like him as the Doctor, even though he was a life-long fan.  He was largely done in by awful scripts.  

There's an old joke in Hollywood.  "Did you hear the one about the Polish Starlet?  She was so dumb she slept with the writer."


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Writing may suck. But it sounds like she didn't bring anything to the table.
> 
> Again, changing the fabric of the show via having a female doctor is a slap in the face to the real fans in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best actor in the world can't solve awful writing.
> 
> Peter Capaldi was a fantastic, highly experienced actor who was already well-loved for other roles.
> 
> Yet people really didn't like him as the Doctor, even though he was a life-long fan.  He was largely done in by awful scripts.
> 
> There's an old joke in Hollywood.  "Did you hear the one about the Polish Starlet?  She was so dumb she slept with the writer."
Click to expand...


People liked Capaldi as DW as well as his first sidekick. They didn't like most of the rest of the production.


----------



## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> People liked Capaldi as DW as well as his first sidekick. They didn't like most of the rest of the production.



Actually, the ratings really cratered with Capaldi.   While I thought he did  a fine job, a lot of the fan base who were used to younger actors playing the Doctor didn't connect with him.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> People liked Capaldi as DW as well as his first sidekick. They didn't like most of the rest of the production.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, the ratings really cratered with Capaldi.   While I thought he did  a fine job, a lot of the fan base who were used to younger actors playing the Doctor didn't connect with him.
Click to expand...


The sound production was completely off. Amazing that it could be that bad. That could tank any actor playing the doctor. It went from A to F.


----------



## Crepitus

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.


You kids are so sensitive.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

Crepitus said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You kids are so sensitive.
Click to expand...


It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.


----------



## Harry Dresden

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
Click to expand...

and since the doctor has been a male for what a 1000 years.....and now he is a female?.....they should have just used a time lady if they wanted to go that route...


----------



## JoeB131

Harry Dresden said:


> and since the doctor has been a male for what a 1000 years.....and now he is a female?.....they should have just used a time lady if they wanted to go that route...



Again, it's not that big of a deal. 

They had the Master regenerate into a female a while back, and because they actually gave her interesting stuff to do and a character arc, it worked pretty well.  They of course, turned her back into a male and pretty much ruined all the character development stuff, because the current production team sucks. 

The problem isn't the Doctor now being female. 

The problem is the Doctor being played by a woman who isn't a very good actress, being given scripts that are at best repetitive and at worse, awful.  

Throw in an ugly Tardis set, too many companions, none of whom can act, bad sound, and stories that spit in the eye of the long term fans, and there you are.


----------



## Harry Dresden

JoeB131 said:


> Harry Dresden said:
> 
> 
> 
> and since the doctor has been a male for what a 1000 years.....and now he is a female?.....they should have just used a time lady if they wanted to go that route...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not that big of a deal.
> 
> They had the Master regenerate into a female a while back, and because they actually gave her interesting stuff to do and a character arc, it worked pretty well.  They of course, turned her back into a male and pretty much ruined all the character development stuff, because the current production team sucks.
> 
> The problem isn't the Doctor now being female.
> 
> The problem is the Doctor being played by a woman who isn't a very good actress, being given scripts that are at best repetitive and at worse, awful.
> 
> Throw in an ugly Tardis set, too many companions, none of whom can act, bad sound, and stories that spit in the eye of the long term fans, and there you are.
Click to expand...

sounds like excuses joe....just maybe the idea of turning a being who has been a male in the show for the last 50 years just didnt resonate with the fans...if they wanted a female time lord then create a new character or just bring back Romana....


----------



## Crepitus

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
Click to expand...

Why can't the Dr be female?  I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Crepitus said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female?  I've been a Dr who can since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
Click to expand...


I've been a Who fan since the 60s, when the only place to see it was on PBS.

Or a late night movie version.


----------



## Crepitus

WillHaftawaite said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female?  I've been a Dr who can since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've been a Who fan since the 60s, when the only place to see it was on PBS.
> 
> Or a late night movie version.
Click to expand...

In the early 80s I was watching reruns from the 60s and 70s on PBS.  Along with Space 1999 and Black Adder.


----------



## Unkotare

The problem is hack writers with no real creativity. It's only too facile to say "every male character becomes female, half of the characters become gay, good guys must be bad guys, interesting characters are reproduced exactly as other ethnicities, etc." It is lazy crap.


----------



## JoeB131

Harry Dresden said:


> sounds like excuses joe....just maybe the idea of turning a being who has been a male in the show for the last 50 years just didnt resonate with the fans...if they wanted a female time lord then create a new character or just bring back Romana....



Well... no.  

Frankly, I've talked to very few Doctor Who fans who are offended by the Doctor being a woman now.  Most of the complaints I've seen are with the writing, which is dreadful.   If you gave Whitacker a decent script and maybe some acting lessons, she'd probably be fine


----------



## JoeB131

Unkotare said:


> The problem is hack writers with no real creativity. It's only too facile to say "every male character becomes female, half of the characters become gay, good guys must be bad guys, interesting characters are reproduced exactly as other ethnicities, etc." It is lazy crap.



Actually, the real problem...  The Doctor turned female, but there's really nothing about her performance that is different.   Seriously, she's not unattractive, but in two seasons, only one male character has hit on her... and that was Lord Byron... who you would expect to hit on people.  

Now, when they made the Master into the Mistress (Missy), they did some really creative things with her. It became a lot more about the actual relationship between the two characters.  (Keeping in mind that at this point, we were on our Twelfth Doctor and our Seventh Master). They gave them some snappy scripts and Michelle Gomez was kind of awesome in the role.


----------



## JoeB131

Crepitus said:


> Why can't the Dr be female? I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.



Well, they've always kind of played fast and loose with the rules of Regeneration, which was only introduced as a plot element because the First Doctor, William Hartnell, couldn't remember his lines due to his age and failing health.  

They really only started toying with the idea that Time Lords could gender swap recently, though.   The 11th Doctor mentioned a fellow Time Lord called "The Corsair", who was both genders in various incarnations.  Then they had the Master turn into Missy.  So I think they were setting it up.


----------



## 22lcidw

JoeB131 said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female? I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they've always kind of played fast and loose with the rules of Regeneration, which was only introduced as a plot element because the First Doctor, William Hartnell, couldn't remember his lines due to his age and failing health.
> 
> They really only started toying with the idea that Time Lords could gender swap recently, though.   The 11th Doctor mentioned a fellow Time Lord called "The Corsair", who was both genders in various incarnations.  Then they had the Master turn into Missy.  So I think they were setting it up.
Click to expand...

Britain is controlled by the globalists. Many British programs have a high percentage of minorities. Its surreal really.  Its just pushing agendas.


----------



## Crepitus

22lcidw said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female? I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they've always kind of played fast and loose with the rules of Regeneration, which was only introduced as a plot element because the First Doctor, William Hartnell, couldn't remember his lines due to his age and failing health.
> 
> They really only started toying with the idea that Time Lords could gender swap recently, though.   The 11th Doctor mentioned a fellow Time Lord called "The Corsair", who was both genders in various incarnations.  Then they had the Master turn into Missy.  So I think they were setting it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain is controlled by the globalists. Many British programs have a high percentage of minorities. Its surreal really.  Its just pushing agendas.
Click to expand...

In other words;


----------



## Fiero425

JoeB131 said:


> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female? I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they've always kind of played fast and loose with the rules of Regeneration, which was only introduced as a plot element because the First Doctor, William Hartnell, couldn't remember his lines due to his age and failing health.
> 
> They really only started toying w/ the idea that Time Lords could gender swap recently, though.   The 11th Doctor mentioned a fellow Time Lord called "The Corsair", who was both genders in various incarnations.  Then they had the Master turn into Missy.  So I think they were setting it up.
Click to expand...


I've been a fan since college in the mid 70's on PBS, but remember 2 Doctor Who movies w/ Peter Cushing from the 60's! When Smith became the Doctor 10 yrs ago, he pulled his hair down into his face and exclaimed, _"I'm a girl!"_ Then you had Capaldi shoot the old General on Gallifrey who regenerated into a Black woman! That was the 1st gender change that happened we actually saw occur on screen! - Children Of Rassilon -


----------



## JoeB131

Fiero425 said:


> I've been a fan since college in the mid 70's on PBS, but remember 2 Doctor Who movies w/ Peter Cushing from the 60's! When Smith became the Doctor 10 yrs ago, he pulled his hair down into his face and exclaimed, _"I'm a girl!"_ Then you had Capaldi shoot the old General on Gallifrey who regenerated into a Black woman! That was the 1st gender change that happened we actually saw occur on screen!



The two movies made by Amicus were lifted wholely from William Hartnell serials.   They really don't work well, because Cushing played the character totally differently than Hartnell did. 

But, yeah, they hinted at cross gender regenerations long before they actually did one for the Doctor.


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## 22lcidw

Crepitus said:


> 22lcidw said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Crepitus said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female? I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they've always kind of played fast and loose with the rules of Regeneration, which was only introduced as a plot element because the First Doctor, William Hartnell, couldn't remember his lines due to his age and failing health.
> 
> They really only started toying with the idea that Time Lords could gender swap recently, though.   The 11th Doctor mentioned a fellow Time Lord called "The Corsair", who was both genders in various incarnations.  Then they had the Master turn into Missy.  So I think they were setting it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain is controlled by the globalists. Many British programs have a high percentage of minorities. Its surreal really.  Its just pushing agendas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words;
> 
> View attachment 449031
Click to expand...

Its not that complicated. When my neighborhood died I knew why. Even though I and most others wanted and tried to be as welcoming as can be.  We were still slapped around with people being assaulted and killed and saying anything about anything criminal and worse was regarded as a conspiracy. The people who had family members buried  and weeped were just being bitches.


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## JoeB131

22lcidw said:


> Crepitus said:
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> 22lcidw said:
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> JoeB131 said:
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> Crepitus said:
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> Why can't the Dr be female? I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they've always kind of played fast and loose with the rules of Regeneration, which was only introduced as a plot element because the First Doctor, William Hartnell, couldn't remember his lines due to his age and failing health.
> 
> They really only started toying with the idea that Time Lords could gender swap recently, though.   The 11th Doctor mentioned a fellow Time Lord called "The Corsair", who was both genders in various incarnations.  Then they had the Master turn into Missy.  So I think they were setting it up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Britain is controlled by the globalists. Many British programs have a high percentage of minorities. Its surreal really.  Its just pushing agendas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words;
> 
> View attachment 449031
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its not that complicated. When my neighborhood died I knew why. Even though I and most others wanted and tried to be as welcoming as can be.  We were still slapped around with people being assaulted and killed and saying anything about anything criminal and worse was regarded as a conspiracy. The people who had family members buried  and weeped were just being bitches.
Click to expand...


Um, what does any of this have to do with Doctor Who?


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## TheGreatGatsby

Crepitus said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
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> Crepitus said:
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> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female?  I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
Click to expand...


It's clearly not the fabric of the show. It's just political messaging. Once you betray the art with BS, I'm out.


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## Crepitus

S


TheGreatGatsby said:


> Crepitus said:
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> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
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> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female?  I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's clearly not the fabric of the show. It's just political messaging. Once you betray the art with BS, I'm out.
Click to expand...

Snowflake.


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## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> It's clearly not the fabric of the show. It's just political messaging. Once you betray the art with BS, I'm out.



Um, _Doctor Who _has done political messaging since the 1970's... where have you been?  

For instance, when they gave the Doctor an openly feminist companion in Sarah Jane Smith (who in my opinion was the best companion they had.)


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## Robert Urbanek

I don't care much for the interior of the new TARDIS. It looks dark and brutish, more like a Klingon ship. Maybe they were trying for a Steampunk look.


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## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> TheGreatGatsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's clearly not the fabric of the show. It's just political messaging. Once you betray the art with BS, I'm out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, _Doctor Who _has done political messaging since the 1970's... where have you been?
> 
> For instance, when they gave the Doctor an openly feminist companion in Sarah Jane Smith (who in my opinion was the best companion they had.)
Click to expand...


Political messaging and fabric of the show are two different things. They weren't true to the art.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Crepitus said:


> S
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> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female?  I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's clearly not the fabric of the show. It's just political messaging. Once you betray the art with BS, I'm out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Snowflake.
Click to expand...


I block people, shill. Come correct if you're going to bother.


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## Crepitus

TheGreatGatsby said:


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> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female?  I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's clearly not the fabric of the show. It's just political messaging. Once you betray the art with BS, I'm out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Snowflake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I block people, shill. Come correct if you're going to bother.
Click to expand...

Of course you do, snowflake.

Blocking people is a snowflake kinda thing to do.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Crepitus said:


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> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female?  I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's clearly not the fabric of the show. It's just political messaging. Once you betray the art with BS, I'm out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Snowflake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I block people, shill. Come correct if you're going to bother.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you do, snowflake.
> 
> Blocking people is a snowflake kinda thing to do.
Click to expand...


You tell yourself that. But if I see one more hundred proof troll post from you we're done. I don't waste my time on shills any more.


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## Crepitus

TheGreatGatsby said:


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> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female?  I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's clearly not the fabric of the show. It's just political messaging. Once you betray the art with BS, I'm out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Snowflake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I block people, shill. Come correct if you're going to bother.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you do, snowflake.
> 
> Blocking people is a snowflake kinda thing to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You tell yourself that. But if I see one more hundred proof troll post from you we're done. I don't waste my time on shills any more.
Click to expand...

^snowflake^


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## TheGreatGatsby

Crepitus said:


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> Turning DW into a woman after ll this time? It's became more about liberal advocacy than anything else. I think I'm done with it.
> 
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> You kids are so sensitive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not about that. When the artists aren't true to the fabric of a story, then it's over for me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why can't the Dr be female?  I've been a Dr who fan since the 1980s and don't recall there ever being a stated reason why not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's clearly not the fabric of the show. It's just political messaging. Once you betray the art with BS, I'm out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Snowflake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I block people, shill. Come correct if you're going to bother.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you do, snowflake.
> 
> Blocking people is a snowflake kinda thing to do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You tell yourself that. But if I see one more hundred proof troll post from you we're done. I don't waste my time on shills any more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^snowflake^
Click to expand...


Buh bye.


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## TheGreatGatsby

Even if I hadn't walked out on this SJW apparatus, I hear JW was a train wreck anyhow.
I never watched one episode with her.



			Jodie Whittaker Leaving ‘Doctor Who’ Alongside Showrunner Chris Chibnall


----------



## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Even if I hadn't walked out on this SJW apparatus, I hear JW was a train wreck anyhow.
> I never watched one episode with her.
> 
> 
> 
> Jodie Whittaker Leaving ‘Doctor Who’ Alongside Showrunner Chris Chibnall



Probably a good thing. 

There were two problems...  

First, Whitaker herself didn't have a unique personality like the men who preceded her.

Second- and more importantly, Chibnall decided to really fuck with the canon, such as the Doctor Wasn't a timelord, the William Hartnell version wasn't the first version and so on.  

I could list about ten other problems, none of which had to do with "political messaging" (Yes, there were a couple of those, but not as bad as people make them out to be.


----------



## TheGreatGatsby

JoeB131 said:


> Probably a good thing.
> 
> There were two problems...
> 
> First, Whitaker herself didn't have a unique personality like the men who preceded her.
> 
> Second- and more importantly, Chibnall decided *to really fuck with the canon, such as the Doctor Wasn't a timelord*, the William Hartnell version wasn't the first version and so on.
> 
> I could list about ten other problems, none of which had to do with "political messaging" (Yes, there were a couple of those, but not as bad as people make them out to be.



This is what I was saying my problem was more/less from the first. They f*cked with the fabric of the Whoiverse with the gender switching (for political purposes). If you don't stay true to the art, this is what happens. Some asshole thinks he can defy whatever he wants.

As for Whitaker, she was an affirmative action hire of sorts and did not have any proper appreciation for the role. She had no motivation on that basis alone.


----------



## JoeB131

TheGreatGatsby said:


> This is what I was saying my problem was more/less from the first. They f*cked with the fabric of the Whoiverse with the gender switching (for political purposes). If you don't stay true to the art, this is what happens. Some asshole thinks he can defy whatever he wants.
> 
> As for Whitaker, she was an affirmative action hire of sorts and did not have any proper appreciation for the role. She had no motivation on that basis alone.



Nice to see you brought the Toxic male fandom.  

Actually, the fact that she was female had very little to do with the show's problems, because it rarely came up.  You could have had a male actor in those same stories, and it wouldn't have made a whit of difference.  She wasn't feminine, you didn't have male characters hitting on her, nor did she show any interest in men (as opposed to the male doctors since Eccleston, who showed interest in women.) 

Peter Capaldi was a huge fan of the show and appreciated the role.  Yet his Doctor wasn't well received by the fans either.  Part of this was that he came off as too rough, part of it was that fans had gotten used to younger actors playing the Doctor.  (Capaldi was the oldest actor to play the Doctor since William Hartnell, the original Doctor.) 

The real problem was that they didn't have very good stories.   The first season contained no classic villains, and the "new" ones they introduced just weren't very interesting.  The second season, they brought back the Daleks, the Cybermen and the Master, but they didn't do anything interesting with them. 

Particular note is the Master. A great character who has been around since the 1970's, with every Doctor encountering a version of him.   Previously, they gender swapped the Master into "Missy", played by the incomparable Michelle Gomez, and she was kind of awesome, giving a whole new dimension to what could have been a stale character. 

Nope. They brought back the Master as a male again, and frankly, he was boring.


----------



## fncceo

There is, and always will be, only ONE Doctor Who...


----------



## gtopa1

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Even if I hadn't walked out on this SJW apparatus, I hear JW was a train wreck anyhow.
> I never watched one episode with her.
> 
> 
> 
> Jodie Whittaker Leaving ‘Doctor Who’ Alongside Showrunner Chris Chibnall


Thank The High Council's Lord President and the Cardinals for that!!! Gallifray will rise again!!

Greg


----------



## gtopa1

fncceo said:


> There is, and always will be, only ONE Doctor Who...
> 
> View attachment 519514



I understand your sentiment BUT I am older than you. Peter Cushing did a good job as did some of the early ones. I quite liked Tennant and Eccleston but where would they have been without a strong Companion...and don't get me started on Ami (Karen Gillam)....without humour there is no Dr Who.

Greg


----------



## gtopa1

JoeB131 said:


> Nice to see you brought the Toxic male fandom.
> 
> Actually, the fact that she was female had very little to do with the show's problems, because it rarely came up.  You could have had a male actor in those same stories, and it wouldn't have made a whit of difference.  She wasn't feminine, you didn't have male characters hitting on her, nor did she show any interest in men (as opposed to the male doctors since Eccleston, who showed interest in women.)
> 
> Peter Capaldi was a huge fan of the show and appreciated the role.  Yet his Doctor wasn't well received by the fans either.  Part of this was that he came off as too rough, part of it was that fans had gotten used to younger actors playing the Doctor.  (Capaldi was the oldest actor to play the Doctor since William Hartnell, the original Doctor.)
> 
> The real problem was that they didn't have very good stories.   The first season contained no classic villains, and the "new" ones they introduced just weren't very interesting.  The second season, they brought back the Daleks, the Cybermen and the Master, but they didn't do anything interesting with them.
> 
> Particular note is the Master. A great character who has been around since the 1970's, with every Doctor encountering a version of him.   Previously, they gender swapped the Master into "Missy", played by the incomparable Michelle Gomez, and she was kind of awesome, giving a whole new dimension to what could have been a stale character.
> 
> Nope. They brought back the Master as a male again, and frankly, he was boring.


Sarah Jane shatters your Theory. Clara had the makings of Capaldi's STRONG Companion but somehow they just didn't make it. 

Greg


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## fncceo




----------



## fncceo




----------



## JoeB131

fncceo said:


> There is, and always will be, only ONE Doctor Who...
> 
> View attachment 519514



Except three guys played the role before him.  (William Hartnell, Patrick Troughton and John Pertwee).  Four if you count Peter Cushing in the Amicus films.


----------



## JoeB131

gtopa1 said:


> I understand your sentiment BUT I am older than you. Peter Cushing did a good job as did some of the early ones. I quite liked Tennant and Eccleston but where would they have been without a strong Companion...and don't get me started on Ami (Karen Gillam)....without humour there is no Dr Who.
> 
> Greg



Technically, Peter Cushing's version isn't "canon".  He just remade the William Hartnell Dalek stories, but they didn't quite work because his personality was different. 

You do hit on a key point, though.  A big problem is that she doesn't have strong companions. She has three one-note planks of wood.  

The purpose of a companion is to act as an audience surrogate.  They ask the questions we would ask if we were there.


----------



## JoeB131

gtopa1 said:


> Sarah Jane shatters your Theory. Clara had the makings of Capaldi's STRONG Companion but somehow they just didn't make it.
> 
> Greg



Not sure what Sarah Jane has to do with anything I said.  

I do think she was an exceptionally strong companion, judging by how often they brought her back or tried to give her her own spinoff show.  Definitely a fan favorite.  

As for Clara... I thought she was okay paired off against Matt Smith (Day of the Doctor was a high-water mark for the series), but the later episodes, she became a bit annoying.


----------



## gtopa1

JoeB131 said:


> Technically, Peter Cushing's version isn't "canon".  He just remade the William Hartnell Dalek stories, but they didn't quite work because his personality was different.
> 
> You do hit on a key point, though.  A big problem is that she doesn't have strong companions. She has three one-note planks of wood.
> 
> The purpose of a companion is to act as an audience surrogate.  They ask the questions we would ask if we were there.


I suppose it's a matter of taking it at face value...it's either "funny" and dramatic or it isn't. I'm afraid the latest Doc just wasn't amusing. 

Greg


----------



## gtopa1

JoeB131 said:


> Not sure what Sarah Jane has to do with anything I said.
> 
> I do think she was an exceptionally strong companion, judging by how often they brought her back or tried to give her her own spinoff show.  Definitely a fan favorite.
> 
> As for Clara... I thought she was okay paired off against Matt Smith (Day of the Doctor was a high-water mark for the series), but the later episodes, she became a bit annoying.


Yep; just didn't work. The scripts maybe? They were frankly "highly variable". 

Sarah Jane made me laugh a lot; she was just such a girl....and a damn strong one when the occasion demanded. 

Greg


----------



## JoeB131

gtopa1 said:


> I suppose it's a matter of taking it at face value...it's either "funny" and dramatic or it isn't. I'm afraid the latest Doc just wasn't amusing.
> 
> Greg



I think she's kind of dull, but I think it's the writing more than the actress.  

I've seen Whitaker in other things, and she's just fine.


----------



## gtopa1

JoeB131 said:


> I think she's kind of dull, but I think it's the writing more than the actress.
> 
> I've seen Whitaker in other things, and she's just fine.


Not an actress I recall at all. I'm not a TV or movie watcher these days...unless they're old.

Greg


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## fncceo




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## Hugo Furst

gtopa1 said:


> Sarah Jane shatters your Theory. Clara had the makings of Capaldi's STRONG Companion but somehow they just didn't make it.
> 
> Greg


Clara was definitely the most attractive IMO, and Gillam was a much stronger character after she left the series.

For strong, Sarah Jane all the way.
(she even got her own series out of it)


----------



## Fiero425

TheGreatGatsby said:


> Even if I hadn't walked out on this SJW apparatus, I hear JW was a train wreck anyhow.
> I never watched one episode with her.
> 
> 
> 
> Jodie Whittaker Leaving ‘Doctor Who’ Alongside Showrunner Chris Chibnall



IIRC, JW  was another one of those actors who had no clue about the subject matter being taken on; HOW ICONIC?! I don't think she ever watched it in the past! The writing gave her the convo skills and cadance of speech to continue annoying everyone out there that are probably thinking, _"TMI!"_ It was hard to watch, but I gave it a chance! It was enough to see the Doctor exist out in space & then put on a suit upon reentry to Earth, but they actually had Whitaker crash landing without even that in her 1st ep.! I guess the transformation needed from that made her a woman! I knew it was a possibiity in the future since production had already utilized that plotline changing the sex of the Master and a Gallifreyan general! 

 - - Children Of Rassilon - -


----------

