# Woman denied haircut, files human rights complaint



## OriginalShroom

While this happened in Canada, considering how the left lied about what was going on in Arizona, it is going to happen here sooner or later..



> Woman denied haircut by barbers | CTV News
> 
> Barbers in Toronto who refused to cut a womans hair have become the target of a human rights complaint, in a case that pits religious freedom against gender equality.
> 
> When Faith McGregor went into the Terminal Barber Shop requesting a short haircut, she was told the shop only grooms men.
> 
> The reason, co-owner Omar Mahrouk said, was that as a Muslim he could not cut the hair of a woman who was not related to him.
> 
> 
> But for McGregor, the rejection of her patronage amounted to sexism.
> 
> Fundamentally, my hair is the same as their male clients, so why would they have a problem with that, she told CTV News.
> 
> I felt like a second class citizen, like it was hard to hear that they refused and there was no discussion."
> 
> So the 35-year-old filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario.
> 
> Under the law, business owners arent supposed to discriminate based on gender, but Mahrouk felt he had religious rights.
> 
> 
> A lawyer for the owners also says in their defence they've only ever trained to cut men's hair and that they'd bought a barbershop on the expectation they would only have to serve male clientele.
> 
> The Terminal bills itself as the oldest standing barber shop in Toronto, offering haircuts, massages and hot lather shaves in a classic barber shop setting, since 1925.
> 
> Its client list includes former prime minister Paul Martin and actor Woody Harrelson, who can be seen posing with the owners in a photograph on the shops website.
> 
> Some are standing behind the barbershops owners, pointing out that there are women-only spas and gyms.
> 
> If I wanted to have a specialized business geared just towards men that wanted hot razor shaves and cuts, why not, said Sean Gibson of the Ontario Barber Association.
> 
> 
> But McGregor disagrees and is hoping to force the shop to service women too.
> 
> Her case goes to mediation in the new year.


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## PaintMyHouse

Cutting hair is not serving God.  Neither is baking a cake.  If either of those can only be done by your faith as serving God, do them at your church.  There you can set your one rules, within reason.


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## Moonglow

Barbers are not trained to cut women's hair.


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## Book of Jeremiah

Muslims deny people service in the united states all the time.  At airports if you have a bottle of wine or liquor in your suitcase they can deny you service.  The law as it stands is any business owner / employee including cab drivers have the right to deny service to anyone they choose.   They do not have to give a reason for denying service.  ( to anyone )


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## syrenn

Moonglow said:


> Barbers are not trained to cut women's hair.




not quite correct. 

Hair is hair.... cutting hair is all the same. "Barbers" are not skilled in _styling_ women's hair cuts.  

I am quite sure a "barber" could cut a straight line trim off the bottom of hair. I am not trained and even i can do that.


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## R.D.

More idiotic crap from the minds of gimme gimme gimme liberals


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## Book of Jeremiah

PaintMyHouse said:


> Cutting hair is not serving God.  Neither is baking a cake.  If either of those can only be done by your faith as serving God, do them at your church.  There you can set your one rules, within reason.



Muslim cab drivers have denied homosexual couples rides before who didn't have alchohol in their baggage.  As I stated before, a business owner doesn't have to give a reason for denying service.  It is up to them.  Some will, some won't.  That's America.


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## PaintMyHouse

Jeremiah said:


> Muslims deny people service in the united states all the time.  At airports if you have a bottle of wine or liquor in your suitcase they can deny you service.  The law as it stands is any business owner / employee including cab drivers have the right to deny service to anyone they choose.   They do not have to give a reason for denying service.  ( to anyone )


That is incorrect, although the taxi issue does come up, and shouldn't.


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## PaintMyHouse

Jeremiah said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cutting hair is not serving God.  Neither is baking a cake.  If either of those can only be done by your faith as serving God, do them at your church.  There you can set your one rules, within reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim cab drivers have denied homosexual couples rides before who didn't have alchohol in their baggage.  As I stated before, a business owner doesn't have to give a reason for denying service.  It is up to them.  Some will, some won't.  That's America.
Click to expand...

That is America of the soon to be past.


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## Book of Jeremiah

No it isn't.  I've heard of it happening before.   Funny how some religions get raked over the coals for saying no to gays but when a Muslim tells them no they suddenly develop amnesia.   The hypocrisy is stunning and the silence duly noted.


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## OriginalShroom

Jeremiah said:


> Muslims deny people service in the united states all the time.  At airports if you have a bottle of wine or liquor in your suitcase they can deny you service.  The law as it stands is any business owner / employee including cab drivers have the right to deny service to anyone they choose.   They do not have to give a reason for denying service.  ( to anyone )



If you are referring to Taxi Drivers I think you are, they lost that lawsuit.

Appeals Court backs MAC on Muslim taxi drivers | Star Tribune

They even wanted to refuse service to blind people with service dogs.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

PaintMyHouse said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cutting hair is not serving God.  Neither is baking a cake.  If either of those can only be done by your faith as serving God, do them at your church.  There you can set your one rules, within reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim cab drivers have denied homosexual couples rides before who didn't have alchohol in their baggage.  As I stated before, a business owner doesn't have to give a reason for denying service.  It is up to them.  Some will, some won't.  That's America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
Click to expand...


Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri


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## SmedlyButler

In the early 70's my old man was the only barber in a small town. He refused to cut my friends hair if he thought it was "too long". It was embarrassing and I thiink revenge for my below the shoulders locks. He wore an earring (ex sailor). My friends thought that was a little...you know. 

Wondering if the world ever "grows up".


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## PaintMyHouse

Jeremiah said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim cab drivers have denied homosexual couples rides before who didn't have alchohol in their baggage.  As I stated before, a business owner doesn't have to give a reason for denying service.  It is up to them.  Some will, some won't.  That's America.
> 
> 
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
Click to expand...

The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

OriginalShroom said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims deny people service in the united states all the time.  At airports if you have a bottle of wine or liquor in your suitcase they can deny you service.  The law as it stands is any business owner / employee including cab drivers have the right to deny service to anyone they choose.   They do not have to give a reason for denying service.  ( to anyone )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are referring to Taxi Drivers I think you are, they lost that lawsuit.
> 
> Appeals Court backs MAC on Muslim taxi drivers | Star Tribune
> 
> They even wanted to refuse service to blind people with service dogs.
Click to expand...


Interesting, Shroom.  Thanks for the news link.


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## dannyboys

The LIB bitch knew what was going to happen at the barber shop. 'She belongs to a radical LIB group who spends their pathetic lives trying to promote their radical LIB agenda.
If I were the owner of the barber shop I'd tell her to shove her radical LIB agenda up her well padded ass.


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## Unkotare

I wonder if she went to school to become a professional litigant or if it is a career she just fell into?


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## OriginalShroom

PaintMyHouse said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
Click to expand...


You can have that rule..   The nice thing about living in America is that your personal rules don't have to be my rules.

It's called Freedom.    Look it up sometime.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

PaintMyHouse said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
Click to expand...


Actually the rule in America is business is business when business owners say it is and they don't need an excuse to deny service to any customer.  Those are the facts. 

With that said, I'm a christian and if I owned a bakery store I'd sell a cake to them just as I would to any other person buying a cake.  It's a cake.  Not me attending a rally for gays.  I wouldn't have a problem with it but for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, any other person who would have a problem with it ---> they have the right to deny business.  The law is already there.   End of story.   So much drama over a cake.  Incredible.  How  many cake stores are there in America anyhow??  Is there a cake shortage we didn't know about?


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## Unkotare

PaintMyHouse said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
Click to expand...




No, that is not "the rule."


----------



## PaintMyHouse

Unkotare said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that is not "the rule."
Click to expand...

It's close enough for government work.


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## Unkotare

PaintMyHouse said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that is not "the rule."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's close enough for government work.
Click to expand...



Pretty much says it all about you...


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## PaintMyHouse

OriginalShroom said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can have that rule..   The nice thing about living in America is that your personal rules don't have to be my rules.
> 
> It's called Freedom.    Look it up sometime.
Click to expand...

That is my rule, it's also very close to the rule our society has set.  That's why it works out so well for me, I'm in compliance.


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## PaintMyHouse

Unkotare said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, that is not "the rule."
> 
> 
> 
> It's close enough for government work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much says it all about you...
Click to expand...

Life is messy.  Never heard that before?


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## Unkotare

PaintMyHouse said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's close enough for government work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much says it all about you...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Life is messy.  Never heard that before?
Click to expand...




Your brain is messy. Never considered that before?


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## PaintMyHouse

Unkotare said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much says it all about you...
> 
> 
> 
> Life is messy.  Never heard that before?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your brain is messy. Never considered that before?
Click to expand...

It can be, but that's why I work through my arguments, unlike most here.


----------



## Againsheila

OriginalShroom said:


> While this happened in Canada, considering how the left lied about what was going on in Arizona, it is going to happen here sooner or later..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woman denied haircut by barbers | CTV News
> 
> Barbers in Toronto who refused to cut a womans hair have become the target of a human rights complaint, in a case that pits religious freedom against gender equality.
> 
> When Faith McGregor went into the Terminal Barber Shop requesting a short haircut, she was told the shop only grooms men.
> 
> The reason, co-owner Omar Mahrouk said, was that as a Muslim he could not cut the hair of a woman who was not related to him.
> 
> 
> But for McGregor, the rejection of her patronage amounted to sexism.
> 
> Fundamentally, my hair is the same as their male clients, so why would they have a problem with that, she told CTV News.
> 
> I felt like a second class citizen, like it was hard to hear that they refused and there was no discussion."
> 
> So the 35-year-old filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario.
> 
> Under the law, business owners arent supposed to discriminate based on gender, but Mahrouk felt he had religious rights.
> 
> 
> A lawyer for the owners also says in their defence they've only ever trained to cut men's hair and that they'd bought a barbershop on the expectation they would only have to serve male clientele.
> 
> The Terminal bills itself as the oldest standing barber shop in Toronto, offering haircuts, massages and hot lather shaves in a classic barber shop setting, since 1925.
> 
> Its client list includes former prime minister Paul Martin and actor Woody Harrelson, who can be seen posing with the owners in a photograph on the shops website.
> 
> Some are standing behind the barbershops owners, pointing out that there are women-only spas and gyms.
> 
> If I wanted to have a specialized business geared just towards men that wanted hot razor shaves and cuts, why not, said Sean Gibson of the Ontario Barber Association.
> 
> 
> But McGregor disagrees and is hoping to force the shop to service women too.
> 
> Her case goes to mediation in the new year.
Click to expand...


When I was a kid Barber Shops were for men and Hair Salons were for women.  When did that change?


----------



## OriginalShroom

PaintMyHouse said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can have that rule..   The nice thing about living in America is that your personal rules don't have to be my rules.
> 
> It's called Freedom.    Look it up sometime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is my rule, it's also very close to the rule our society has set.  That's why it works out so well for me, I'm in compliance.
Click to expand...


And once again, In America I am supposed to have the right to not be "In compliance" as long as I don't hurt anyone else.

Freedom.   It's a wonderful thing.


----------



## Unkotare

PaintMyHouse said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Life is messy.  Never heard that before?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your brain is messy. Never considered that before?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It can be, but that's why I work through my arguments, unlike most here.
Click to expand...



You don't appear to be working through anything.


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## OriginalShroom

When I was a kid Barber Shops were for men and Hair Salons were for women.  When did that change?[/QUOTE]

When women decided that they didn't want to wait for other women to get their hair done, so they started using barbers because men's hair usually takes less time to cut.

When I was in the service, a woman brought her daughter into the barbershop to have it washed, cut, and put into a French Braid.   Several of us found the BX Manager and raised hell.   She was told to take her daughter to the saloon next door, that the barbershop was for men's haircuts only.  Braiding and washing was done in the saloon.


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## PaintMyHouse

OriginalShroom said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can have that rule..   The nice thing about living in America is that your personal rules don't have to be my rules.
> 
> It's called Freedom.    Look it up sometime.
> 
> 
> 
> That is my rule, it's also very close to the rule our society has set.  That's why it works out so well for me, I'm in compliance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And once again, In America I am supposed to have the right to not be "In compliance" as long as I don't hurt anyone else.
> 
> Freedom.   It's a wonderful thing.
Click to expand...

That's incorrect, and not what the laws say.


----------



## PaintMyHouse

Unkotare said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your brain is messy. Never considered that before?
> 
> 
> 
> It can be, but that's why I work through my arguments, unlike most here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You don't appear to be working through anything.
Click to expand...

Pay more attention then.  And on this issue, nope.  Got it all done.


----------



## Unkotare

PaintMyHouse said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> It can be, but that's why I work through my arguments, unlike most here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't appear to be working through anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pay more attention then.
Click to expand...



There's not much to miss. You are just repeating your subjective feeeeeeelings and being insistent. That's not even good enough for government work.


----------



## OriginalShroom

PaintMyHouse said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is my rule, it's also very close to the rule our society has set.  That's why it works out so well for me, I'm in compliance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And once again, In America I am supposed to have the right to not be "In compliance" as long as I don't hurt anyone else.
> 
> Freedom.   It's a wonderful thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's incorrect, and not what the laws say.
Click to expand...


Just because you like the Socialist laws passed, doesn't mean that I do.

And I do my best not to support or obey laws that I believe to be UnAmerican.


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## Quantum Windbag

PaintMyHouse said:


> Cutting hair is not serving God.  Neither is baking a cake.  If either of those can only be done by your faith as serving God, do them at your church.  There you can set your one rules, within reason.



Because you are an expert on serving Allah, right?


----------



## Quantum Windbag

syrenn said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Barbers are not trained to cut women's hair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not quite correct.
> 
> Hair is hair.... cutting hair is all the same. "Barbers" are not skilled in _styling_ women's hair cuts.
> 
> I am quite sure a "barber" could cut a straight line trim off the bottom of hair. I am not trained and even i can do that.
Click to expand...


Now.


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## Quantum Windbag

OriginalShroom said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can have that rule..   The nice thing about living in America is that your personal rules don't have to be my rules.
> 
> It's called Freedom.    Look it up sometime.
Click to expand...


I explained that to him, but since he is smarter than everyone else, and everyone already hates him because of that, he decided to be a whore, and then lie about his business.


----------



## OriginalShroom

Quantum Windbag said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can have that rule..   The nice thing about living in America is that your personal rules don't have to be my rules.
> 
> It's called Freedom.    Look it up sometime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I explained that to him, but since he is smarter than everyone else, and everyone already hates him because of that, he decided to be a whore, and then lie about his business.
Click to expand...


He's just another typical Leftie...  It's just that simple.


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## M.D. Rawlings

OriginalShroom said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims deny people service in the united states all the time.  At airports if you have a bottle of wine or liquor in your suitcase they can deny you service.  The law as it stands is any business owner / employee including cab drivers have the right to deny service to anyone they choose.   They do not have to give a reason for denying service.  ( to anyone )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are referring to Taxi Drivers I think you are, they lost that lawsuit.
> 
> Appeals Court backs MAC on Muslim taxi drivers | Star Tribune
> 
> They even wanted to refuse service to blind people with service dogs.
Click to expand...


PaintMyHouse read some blather written by Jones, our self-anointed "expert" on constitutional and case law, and now thinks that the principle of public accommodation trumps the imperatives of the First Amendment.  Truth is hell latch onto anything that gives him an excuse to impose his will on others.

Observe his comment in the above wherein he images that his theology should trump the rights of others.  

As for the proposed Arizona bill:  all it does is assert what is already established in case law as a means of staving off frivolous lawsuits, i.e., that all persons have the right to refuse service on moral/religious grounds, including homosexuals.  The bill contains no reference to sexual orientation at all.  

Leftists are such idiots, and most of them are pathological liars.


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## skye

Againsheila said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> While this happened in Canada, considering how the left lied about what was going on in Arizona, it is going to happen here sooner or later..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woman denied haircut by barbers | CTV News
> 
> Barbers in Toronto who refused to cut a womans hair have become the target of a human rights complaint, in a case that pits religious freedom against gender equality.
> 
> When Faith McGregor went into the Terminal Barber Shop requesting a short haircut, she was told the shop only grooms men.
> 
> The reason, co-owner Omar Mahrouk said, was that as a Muslim he could not cut the hair of a woman who was not related to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But for McGregor, the rejection of her patronage amounted to sexism.
> 
> Fundamentally, my hair is the same as their male clients, so why would they have a problem with that, she told CTV News.
> 
> I felt like a second class citizen, like it was hard to hear that they refused and there was no discussion."
> 
> So the 35-year-old filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario.
> 
> Under the law, business owners arent supposed to discriminate based on gender, but Mahrouk felt he had religious rights.
> 
> 
> A lawyer for the owners also says in their defence they've only ever trained to cut men's hair and that they'd bought a barbershop on the expectation they would only have to serve male clientele.
> 
> The Terminal bills itself as the oldest standing barber shop in Toronto, offering haircuts, massages and hot lather shaves in a classic barber shop setting, since 1925.
> 
> Its client list includes former prime minister Paul Martin and actor Woody Harrelson, who can be seen posing with the owners in a photograph on the shops website.
> 
> Some are standing behind the barbershops owners, pointing out that there are women-only spas and gyms.
> 
> If I wanted to have a specialized business geared just towards men that wanted hot razor shaves and cuts, why not, said Sean Gibson of the Ontario Barber Association.
> 
> 
> But McGregor disagrees and is hoping to force the shop to service women too.
> 
> Her case goes to mediation in the new year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> * When I was a kid Barber Shops were for men and Hair Salons were for women.  When did that change?  *
Click to expand...



In the 1920s.

...when women started to go to the barber to have their long locks cut into a bob.


----------



## Moonglow

Jeremiah said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim cab drivers have denied homosexual couples rides before who didn't have alchohol in their baggage.  As I stated before, a business owner doesn't have to give a reason for denying service.  It is up to them.  Some will, some won't.  That's America.
> 
> 
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
Click to expand...


link?


----------



## skye

I am no liberal ok? having said that...

In Canada, Muslim culture is not that of the majority  or of the country, therefore if the pious  man is not prepared to assimilate at all, he really should go back to his home country.
Let's hope this woman wins her case before we all have to eat halal food and pray 5 times a day!
The offensive discrimination of this particular barber is unacceptable!


----------



## dannyboys

skye said:


> I am no liberal ok? having said that...
> 
> In Canada, Muslim culture is not that of the majority  or of the country, therefore if the pious  man is not prepared to assimilate at all, he really should go back to his home country.
> 
> Let's hope this woman wins her case before we all have to eat halal food and pray 5 times a day!
> The offensive discrimination of this particular barber is unacceptable!


You really don't have a fucking clue do you? Canada was based on the concept of the cultural mosaic. The US was based on the concept of the 'melting pot'. The fucking 'melting pot' NEVER happened in the US. The Canadian experience is much more a tradition of the country being a mosaic in which all cultures are encouraged to maintain their cultural/religious ideas. It's has worked. 
Ever heard the expression: "It's a free country"? The barber shop owner is legally protected from anyone who wants to discriminate.......yes I said discriminate against his religious beliefs by demanding he goes against his religious beliefs. Ever heard of the separation between Church and State? Just as a Jewish baker doesn't have to bake a cake with the flag of Hamas on it when our barber demands he do so. You all need to use whatever limited IQ you have to understand this very simple fact.


----------



## M.D. Rawlings

skye said:


> I am no liberal ok? having said that...
> 
> In Canada, Muslim culture is not that of the majority  or of the country, therefore if the pious  man is not prepared to assimilate at all, he really should go back to his home country.
> Let's hope this woman wins her case before we all have to eat halal food and pray 5 times a day!
> The offensive discrimination of this particular barber is unacceptable!



The only imposition you're proposing is on individual liberty via the idiocy of collectivism.  The Muslim barber is within his rights.  He's not imposing anything.  Assimilation is a political concern, not a religious concern, and you don't have any natural or constitutional right to demand that he cut your friggin' hair.  Mind your own business and take it elsewhere.  And if you can't do that or you don't grasp the necessity of that relative to the imperatives of liberty, then take your tyranny and get the hell out of America.  

I have plenty of problems with Muslims.  Most are collectivist fascists in political terms just like the pagan fascists among us on the left.  But in this instance, the barber has done nothing wrong.

We are surrounded by idiots who cannot grasp the ramifications of their baby talk.   God help us and save the Republic.


----------



## JakeStarkey

The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.

Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.


----------



## skye

JakeStarkey said:


> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold out himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.




My feelings exactly!


----------



## Unkotare

skye said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> While this happened in Canada, considering how the left lied about what was going on in Arizona, it is going to happen here sooner or later..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * When I was a kid Barber Shops were for men and Hair Salons were for women.  When did that change?  *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In the 1920s.
> 
> ...when women started to go to the barber to have their long locks cut into a bob.
Click to expand...




An interesting part of socio-political-economic changes for women during that era.


----------



## Unkotare

dannyboys said:


> The... 'melting pot' NEVER happened in the US.





Of course it did, and does.


----------



## M.D. Rawlings

JakeStarkey said:


> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.



More pseudo-legal blather.  Case law emphatically backs the Muslim.  You leftist thugs are only trying to assert this nonsense in New Mexico and other states in a campaign to overturn established law.  The principle of public accommodation does not and never has trumped the imperatives of the First Amendment, you lying degenerate.


----------



## M.D. Rawlings

skye said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold out himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
Click to expand...


The feelings of an idiot, but not the natural and constitutional law, affirmed in case law, of this nation's founding.


----------



## skye

M.D. Rawlings said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold out himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The feelings of an idiot, but not the natural and constitutional law, affirmed in case law, of this nation's founding.
Click to expand...



its too early in the day for me to start arguing with morons like you.  

*YAWN*


----------



## natstew

Since when is a cake or a haircut a "Civil Right"?

The Courts have no right involving themselves in either, they should dismiss both cases as trivial nonesense!


----------



## JakeStarkey

M.D. Rawlings said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More pseudo-legal blather.  Case law emphatically backs the Muslim.  You leftist thugs are only trying to assert this nonsense in New Mexico and other states in a campaign to overturn established law.  The principle of public accommodation does not and never has trumped the imperatives of the First Amendment, you lying degenerate.
Click to expand...


No, it doesn't, and you can't provide it.


----------



## JakeStarkey

skye said:


> M.D. Rawlings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The feelings of an idiot, but not the natural and constitutional law, affirmed in case law, of this nation's founding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> its too early in the day for me to start arguing with morons like you.
> 
> *YAWN*
Click to expand...


Natural law is beside the point, and you have not provided case law, M. D., to support your point.  Hint: you can't.


----------



## OriginalShroom

skye said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold out himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
Click to expand...


I would find a place that was legally discriminating against men for any service and demand they either accept men or allow me to continue to refuse to service women.


----------



## Jughead

> A lawyer for the owners also says in their defence they've only ever trained to cut men's hair and that they'd bought a barbershop on the expectation they would only have to serve male clientele.


Maybe I'm missing something here, but aren't barbershops tailored for men only? Everytime I've been inside an old style barbershop, all the customers were men. Hairdressers and beauty salons are tailored for women.

I guess the reason why barbershops are tailored for men only has to do with the fact that unlike hair stylists, barbers are not trained in fancy hair cuts and styling. If they allow only the women who want basic haircuts, they would be discriminating against the other women. That is why the policy is usually men only.


----------



## JakeStarkey

OriginalShroom said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold out himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would find a place that was legally discriminating against men for any service and demand they either accept men or allow me to continue to refuse to service women.
Click to expand...


Go to any Rainbow hair salon and ask for a haircut.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

JakeStarkey said:


> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.



Or, just a thought, the woman could go to a different barber.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

skye said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold out himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
Click to expand...


Why? Is that the only barber within 1000 miles?


----------



## Quantum Windbag

JakeStarkey said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would find a place that was legally discriminating against men for any service and demand they either accept men or allow me to continue to refuse to service women.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go to any Rainbow hair salon and ask for a haircut.
Click to expand...


Last time I went there they made me look like you, and I was so stupid I couldn't tie my shoes until my hair grew out.


----------



## thereisnospoon

PaintMyHouse said:


> Cutting hair is not serving God.  Neither is baking a cake.  If either of those can only be done by your faith as serving God, do them at your church.  There you can set your one rules, within reason.



yeah well, we still can refuse service to anyone we do not wish to do business with.
We just don't have to give a reason for the denial.
Government as the behest of plaintiff's attorneys and namby pamby advocacy groups has meddled in business once again.
Trust me. If a whiny little jerk like wanted my business, I'd send you on your with "your money is better spent elsewhere."....And there is not a thing you can do about it.
I don't have to give a reason who I don't wish to do business with any person. 
And that is the future. Instead of business owners offering a reason, they will simply decline to transact commerce with those with which they have a compatibility issue.
There is no damage. No negligence. Such a declination is not actionable.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Moonglow said:


> Barbers are not trained to cut women's hair.



This is true. Why a woman, unless she wanted a buzz cut, would want to use the services of a men's barber shop is a mystery.


----------



## Avatar4321

PaintMyHouse said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
Click to expand...


And who the hell are you to tell me what i can and can't involve my religious faith in?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Quantum Windbag said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would find a place that was legally discriminating against men for any service and demand they either accept men or allow me to continue to refuse to service women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go to any Rainbow hair salon and ask for a haircut.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Last time I went there they made me look like you, and I was so stupid I couldn't tie my shoes until my hair grew out.
Click to expand...


bravo


----------



## skye

Quantum Windbag said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold out himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why? Is that the only barber within 1000 miles?
Click to expand...




Why should any Canadian be inconvenienced, embarrassed or have to make an effort  to find a different barber?

It's up to the Muslim barber to change his attitude and fit in with the Canadian culture, not vice-versa.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Quantum Windbag said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or, just a thought, the woman could go to a different barber.
Click to expand...


Yes, that is her choice to make, not the barbershop's.


----------



## thereisnospoon

syrenn said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Barbers are not trained to cut women's hair.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not quite correct.
> 
> Hair is hair.... cutting hair is all the same. "Barbers" are not skilled in _styling_ women's hair cuts.
> 
> I am quite sure a "barber" could cut a straight line trim off the bottom of hair. I am not trained and even i can do that.
Click to expand...


Correct...Thanks for the clarification. 
A barber can cut it. Just cannot style it. 
Which is what most women are looking for when they visit the coiffure.


----------



## thereisnospoon

PaintMyHouse said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cutting hair is not serving God.  Neither is baking a cake.  If either of those can only be done by your faith as serving God, do them at your church.  There you can set your one rules, within reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim cab drivers have denied homosexual couples rides before who didn't have alchohol in their baggage.  As I stated before, a business owner doesn't have to give a reason for denying service.  It is up to them.  Some will, some won't.  That's America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
Click to expand...


Oh really?
Wanna bet. Muslims are a PC protected class in this country.
They get whatever they want.


----------



## Avatar4321

So he is being sued for denying service in order to uphold his religious freedom and to keep her from getting her hair cut from someone without the experience to cut hair she needs.

This is freaking ridiculous. If someone doesn't want to cut your hair, find someone who does. There will always be someone who does. 

What the heck is wrong with people nowadays? We don't get our way and we immediately want to use violence to compel others to do what we want.


----------



## thereisnospoon

PaintMyHouse said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
Click to expand...


Never happen. Faith is part of who we are. Deal with it.
The religious thing will find its way back to the main stream.
Eventually, this is going to come to a head and will end up in the hands of SCOTUS.
Religious freedom will be upheld.


----------



## Avatar4321

Anyone saying hair is hair doesn't really understand cutting hair. People are different. Unless you have training in all different types, it can be very difficult.


----------



## thereisnospoon

PaintMyHouse said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that is not "the rule."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's close enough for government work.
Click to expand...


Ahh bullshit.
You just got schooled.


----------



## Connery

Jeremiah said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually the rule in America is business is business when business owners say it is and they don't need an excuse to deny service to any customer.  Those are the facts.
> 
> With that said, I'm a christian and if I owned a bakery store I'd sell a cake to them just as I would to any other person buying a cake.  It's a cake.  Not me attending a rally for gays.  I wouldn't have a problem with it but for Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, any other person who would have a problem with it ---> they have the right to deny business.  The law is already there.   End of story.   So much drama over a cake.  Incredible.  How  many cake stores are there in America anyhow??  Is there a cake shortage we didn't know about?
Click to expand...


I agree with your statement. Bottom line I make choices where to shop. I remember as a child I would go to a barber shop and the barber would ask what school I went to ...if it was the catholic school he cut it very short if it was the public school he cut is a little longer. I went to another barber shop when I got older.


----------



## thereisnospoon

PaintMyHouse said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can have that rule..   The nice thing about living in America is that your personal rules don't have to be my rules.
> 
> It's called Freedom.    Look it up sometime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is my rule, it's also very close to the rule our society has set.  That's why it works out so well for me, I'm in compliance.
Click to expand...


Whose society?
Speak only for yourself.
YOU are one person. Do not claim to represent or even have knowledge of society.
You have an opinion. That's all. You represent yourself. 
Compliance?....With WHAT?


----------



## thereisnospoon

Againsheila said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> While this happened in Canada, considering how the left lied about what was going on in Arizona, it is going to happen here sooner or later..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woman denied haircut by barbers | CTV News
> 
> Barbers in Toronto who refused to cut a womans hair have become the target of a human rights complaint, in a case that pits religious freedom against gender equality.
> 
> When Faith McGregor went into the Terminal Barber Shop requesting a short haircut, she was told the shop only grooms men.
> 
> The reason, co-owner Omar Mahrouk said, was that as a Muslim he could not cut the hair of a woman who was not related to him.
> 
> 
> But for McGregor, the rejection of her patronage amounted to sexism.
> 
> Fundamentally, my hair is the same as their male clients, so why would they have a problem with that, she told CTV News.
> 
> I felt like a second class citizen, like it was hard to hear that they refused and there was no discussion."
> 
> So the 35-year-old filed a complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario.
> 
> Under the law, business owners arent supposed to discriminate based on gender, but Mahrouk felt he had religious rights.
> 
> 
> A lawyer for the owners also says in their defence they've only ever trained to cut men's hair and that they'd bought a barbershop on the expectation they would only have to serve male clientele.
> 
> The Terminal bills itself as the oldest standing barber shop in Toronto, offering haircuts, massages and hot lather shaves in a classic barber shop setting, since 1925.
> 
> Its client list includes former prime minister Paul Martin and actor Woody Harrelson, who can be seen posing with the owners in a photograph on the shops website.
> 
> Some are standing behind the barbershops owners, pointing out that there are women-only spas and gyms.
> 
> If I wanted to have a specialized business geared just towards men that wanted hot razor shaves and cuts, why not, said Sean Gibson of the Ontario Barber Association.
> 
> 
> But McGregor disagrees and is hoping to force the shop to service women too.
> 
> Her case goes to mediation in the new year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When I was a kid Barber Shops were for men and Hair Salons were for women.  When did that change?
Click to expand...


It didn't...Just some rabble rousing liberal female looking to create a little pay day for herself through litigation.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Jughead said:


> A lawyer for the owners also says in their defence they've only ever trained to cut men's hair and that they'd bought a barbershop on the expectation they would only have to serve male clientele.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something here, but aren't barbershops tailored for men only? Everytime I've been inside an old style barbershop, all the customers were men. Hairdressers and beauty salons are tailored for women.
> 
> I guess the reason why barbershops are tailored for men only has to do with the fact that unlike hair stylists, barbers are not trained in fancy hair cuts and styling. If they allow only the women who want basic haircuts, they would be discriminating against the other women. That is why the policy is usually men only.
Click to expand...


I've never seen a woman getting her hair cut in a barber shop in my entire life.  I don't know why one would, honestly.  Even women who go with really short haircuts typically have some sort of style to it.  Most guys who go into a barber shop are getting a very simple trim or shave.  There's not much to it.

Interestingly, the gym I go to has a private work out room for ladies only.  I'm guessing this is for women who are more comfortable not working out around the men, but would this practice not be discriminatory as well?  I never see any guys complaining about not being able to use that part of the gym.  It only seems to be an issue with women who have a problem with gender specific services and only when they are the ones not being served by it.


----------



## thereisnospoon

PaintMyHouse said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is my rule, it's also very close to the rule our society has set.  That's why it works out so well for me, I'm in compliance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And once again, In America I am supposed to have the right to not be "In compliance" as long as I don't hurt anyone else.
> 
> Freedom.   It's a wonderful thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's incorrect, and not what the laws say.
Click to expand...


Which laws are those?
And just a minute. In an earlier post you stated "those are my rules"..."and I am in compliance"....
Who the fuck named you pope of this dump?
You don't get to make rules for others.
In any event, we may exercise the right to not conform.
Does the liberal code contain rules or laws barring freedom?
Those laws?
You certainly have a fucked up view of things.
Or are you as I suspect, one of these douche bags that come to these forums just to post bullshit to see from how many people you can get rise and reaction?
I think you are the latter.


----------



## Againsheila

OriginalShroom said:


> When I was a kid Barber Shops were for men and Hair Salons were for women.  When did that change?



When women decided that they didn't want to wait for other women to get their hair done, so they started using barbers because men's hair usually takes less time to cut.

When I was in the service, a woman brought her daughter into the barbershop to have it washed, cut, and put into a French Braid.   Several of us found the BX Manager and raised hell.   She was told to take her daughter to the saloon next door, that the barbershop was for men's haircuts only.  Braiding and washing was done in the *saloon*.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure you meant Salon.


----------



## PaintMyHouse

OriginalShroom said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> And once again, In America I am supposed to have the right to not be "In compliance" as long as I don't hurt anyone else.
> 
> Freedom.   It's a wonderful thing.
> 
> 
> 
> That's incorrect, and not what the laws say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just because you like the Socialist laws passed, doesn't mean that I do.
> 
> And I do my best not to support or obey laws that I believe to be UnAmerican.
Click to expand...

Good luck with that.


----------



## PaintMyHouse

thereisnospoon said:


> You don't get to make rules for others.


You would be incorrect.  Thanks for playing.


----------



## PaintMyHouse

thereisnospoon said:


> Whose society?


Ours.  The one Ayn Rand forgot to mention.


----------



## PaintMyHouse

thereisnospoon said:


> yeah well, we still can refuse service to anyone we do not wish to do business with.
> We just don't have to give a reason for the denial.


Amazingly incorrect, depending upon the business of course.  Do not open one that is open to the public, unless you really like your lawyer and paying for his kid's braces.


----------



## PaintMyHouse

Avatar4321 said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure?  Obama said there is no future for those who disrespect the prophet Mohammad or the religion of Islam.  You might want to check with him first.  Forcing a Muslim to service homosexuals is the very definition of oppression and grounds for jihad.   I think this discussion is over now.  Have a nice day and be kind to all people.  Not just those you like. - Jeri
> 
> 
> 
> The rule is simple.  Business is business, keep your faith out of making a buck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And who the hell are you to tell me what i can and can't involve my religious faith in?
Click to expand...

I don't have to tell you, it's already been established.  All rights have limitations, and the rules businesses follow are the ones we set for them.


----------



## PaintMyHouse

thereisnospoon said:


> Muslims are a PC protected class in this country.
> They get whatever they want.


They are protected the same way the Christians are protected.  No more, no less.  You confuse the fact that they actually believe what their Holy Book says, and might kill you so people are nice, with them being protected.  They have no more protection but common sense says don't insult the guy who might chop off your head.  The Christians used to do that too remember but they are slightly better today, mainly because they don't actually believe a lot of what the Bible says.  If they did they'd still be burning witches and not charging interest.


----------



## thereisnospoon

M.D. Rawlings said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims deny people service in the united states all the time.  At airports if you have a bottle of wine or liquor in your suitcase they can deny you service.  The law as it stands is any business owner / employee including cab drivers have the right to deny service to anyone they choose.   They do not have to give a reason for denying service.  ( to anyone )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are referring to Taxi Drivers I think you are, they lost that lawsuit.
> 
> Appeals Court backs MAC on Muslim taxi drivers | Star Tribune
> 
> They even wanted to refuse service to blind people with service dogs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse read some blather written by Jones, our self-anointed "expert" on constitutional and case law, and now thinks that the principle of public accommodation trumps the imperatives of the First Amendment.  Truth is hell latch onto anything that gives him an excuse to impose his will on others.
> 
> Observe his comment in the above wherein he images that his theology should trump the rights of others.
> 
> As for the proposed Arizona bill:  all it does is assert what is already established in case law as a means of staving off frivolous lawsuits, i.e., that all persons have the right to refuse service on moral/religious grounds, including homosexuals.  The bill contains no reference to sexual orientation at all.
> 
> Leftists are such idiots, and most of them are pathological liars.
Click to expand...

Yeah. The lefties went ballistic. And not to be outdone, even the NFL had to side with political correctness.
Unfettered access to litigation is part of the liberal religion.


----------



## thereisnospoon

PaintMyHouse said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are a PC protected class in this country.
> They get whatever they want.
> 
> 
> 
> They are protected the same way the Christians are protected.  No more, no less.  You confuse the fact that they actually believe what their Holy Book says, and might kill you so people are nice, with them being protected.  They have no more protection but common sense says don't insult the guy who might chop off your head.  The Christians used to do that too remember but they are slightly better today, mainly because they don't actually believe a lot of what the Bible says.  If they did they'd still be burning witches and not charging interest.
Click to expand...


Oh no they are not. 
Islam is a protected class in this country.
For example. 
In a California school district all students were required to participate in "Muslim week"...all students were required to come to school in traditional Islamic dress and choose a Muslim name. Failure to comply was met with school sanctions.
If this were tried for Christians, the uproar would have been deafening. 
CA School District Forces 7th Graders to 'become Muslims' for Three Weeks -- Federal Lawsuit Filed
Thomas More Law Center ^ | Wed, Jun 26, 2002 
Posted on 8/22/2002 8:51:47 PM by Republican_Strategist
SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Metro -- Muslim prayers in school debated

Political correctness deems members of certain groups as well as their supporters claim to get to have it both ways.



(ANN ARBOR, MI)  According to a federal lawsuit filed in San Francisco on Monday, 7th grade Christian students across California were forced to pretend they were Muslims for three weeks, praying in the name of Allah the Compassionate the Merciful, chanting Praise to Allah, picking a Muslim name from a list to replace their own name and to stage their own Jihad via a dice game. 

The Thomas More Law Center, a national, public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, representing parents and four children, filed the lawsuit against the Byron Union School District and various school officials to stop the use of the Islam Simulation materials in the Byron/Excelsior Public School in Byron, California. 

At issue is a three-week segment of the seventh grade World History class using the textbook Across the Centuries published by Houghton Mifflin and supplemented by Islam simulation materials. Students were told that you and your classmates will become Muslims. To receive points toward their overall grade, students were encouraged to dress as Muslims and to use such phrases in their speech as Allah Akbar, which is Arabic for God is great. Students were required to memorize Muslim prayers, fulfill the Five Pillars of Faith and fast during lunch period to simulate fasting during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan. 

While portraying Islam in a positive light, Across the Centuries used by schools throughout the nation,  portrays Christians as intolerant persecutors of Jews and non-Christians. Houghton Mifflin and the publishers of the Simulation materials acknowledge they were influenced by various Muslim organizations. 

Richard Thompson, Chief Counsel for the Thomas More Law Center, commented, parents with children in this course were totally caught off guard and had no idea what their children were being taught. 
Thomas More Law Center | Battle Ready to Defend America.
Said Thompson, This is unbelievable. While public schools prohibit Christian students from reading the Bible, praying, displaying the Ten Commandments, and even mentioning the word God, students in California are being indoctrinated into the religion of Islam. Public schools would never tolerate teaching Christianity in this way. Just imagine the ACLUs outcry if students were told that they had to pray the Lords Prayer, memorize the Ten Commandments, use such phrases as Jesus is the Messiah, and fast during Lent. 

According to Thompson, Although it is constitutional for public schools to have an instructional program about comparative religion or teach about religion and utilize religious books such as the Bible in courses about our history and culture, the Byron Union School District crossed way over the constitutional line when it coerced impressionable twelve year olds to engage in particular religious rituals and worship, simulated or not.


----------



## thereisnospoon

dannyboys said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am no liberal ok? having said that...
> 
> In Canada, Muslim culture is not that of the majority  or of the country, therefore if the pious  man is not prepared to assimilate at all, he really should go back to his home country.
> 
> Let's hope this woman wins her case before we all have to eat halal food and pray 5 times a day!
> The offensive discrimination of this particular barber is unacceptable!
> 
> 
> 
> You really don't have a fucking clue do you? Canada was based on the concept of the cultural mosaic. The US was based on the concept of the 'melting pot'. The fucking 'melting pot' NEVER happened in the US. The Canadian experience is much more a tradition of the country being a mosaic in which all cultures are encouraged to maintain their cultural/religious ideas. It's has worked.
> Ever heard the expression: "It's a free country"? The barber shop owner is legally protected from anyone who wants to discriminate.......yes I said discriminate against his religious beliefs by demanding he goes against his religious beliefs. Ever heard of the separation between Church and State? Just as a Jewish baker doesn't have to bake a cake with the flag of Hamas on it when our barber demands he do so. You all need to use whatever limited IQ you have to understand this very simple fact.
Click to expand...


It has worked?
I bg to differ. I have visited Montreal and Toronto many times. And I can say with a high degree of certainty that these two cities are not any less segregated culturally and racially than comparable US Cities.
That mosaic thing however, is a fact. Canada needs to allow multiculturalism because of the small population. In other words, if Canada did not have such liberal immigration policies, the population of the country would be 2/3rds of its present size.
Here in the US, we have a distinct American culture. 
There are those who seek to destroy our culture through reverse intolerance ( Of American Culture) and political correctness.
It's not working. We continue to defend our culture.


----------



## thereisnospoon

OriginalShroom said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Muslim barber can either make appointments privately and not hold out himself out publicly, or the shop can offer a non-Muslim barber who can cut hair.
> 
> Public accommodation does not permit religious discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I would find a place that was legally discriminating against men for any service and demand they either accept men or allow me to continue to refuse to service women.
Click to expand...


Ever hear of "Curves". This is a chain of fitness centers expressly for women.
I would like to see a guy try to join one of these and watch the fur fly.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

skye said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why? Is that the only barber within 1000 miles?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why should any Canadian be inconvenienced, embarrassed or have to make an effort  to find a different barber?
> 
> It's up to the Muslim barber to change his attitude and fit in with the Canadian culture, not vice-versa.
Click to expand...


Embarrassed? Because a barber is busy?


----------



## Papageorgio

Why is it that men are not allowed to go to "Curves" and exercise?

They say it is women only, are they breaking discrimination laws?


----------



## emilynghiem

M.D. Rawlings said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims deny people service in the united states all the time.  At airports if you have a bottle of wine or liquor in your suitcase they can deny you service.  The law as it stands is any business owner / employee including cab drivers have the right to deny service to anyone they choose.   They do not have to give a reason for denying service.  ( to anyone )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are referring to Taxi Drivers I think you are, they lost that lawsuit.
> 
> Appeals Court backs MAC on Muslim taxi drivers | Star Tribune
> 
> They even wanted to refuse service to blind people with service dogs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse read some blather written by Jones, our self-anointed "expert" on constitutional and case law, and now thinks that the principle of public accommodation trumps the imperatives of the First Amendment.  Truth is he&#8217;ll latch onto anything that gives him an excuse to impose his will on others.
> 
> Observe his comment in the above wherein he images that his &#8220;theology&#8221; should trump the rights of others.
> 
> As for the proposed Arizona bill:  all it does is assert what is already established in case law as a means of staving off frivolous lawsuits, i.e., that all persons have the right to refuse service on moral/religious grounds, including homosexuals.  The bill contains no reference to sexual orientation at all.
> 
> Leftists are such idiots, and most of them are pathological liars.
Click to expand...


Dear MDR:

I didn't know CCJones claimed to be an expert. I assumed he was just another DIY Constitutionalist as I am, who talk about what the spirit of the laws mean to us vs. how laws are currently interpreted. I don't necessarily agree with precedence, and I work toward the day that consensus and consent of the governed will be the norm/standard.

If I want to check against the Constitution, I would ask Jon Roland of the Constitution Center and a Libertarian candidate on and off for office.

Thanks for your clarifications which are most helpful to stop the biased perceptions too easily spread around through this open media. On the other hand, so are the correct interpretations and information spread, so thanks for that as well.

I do value CCJones for bringing up points, right or wrong.
we seriously NEED to have these discussions, and we would have nothing to discuss if everyone already agrees. there has to be some diversity, some missing or conflicting information to correct.

So I wouldn't take personal offense or issue with CCJones, mistakes or not.
I do value the corrections, and have full faith so does CCJones.

It seems people on here are committed to getting the answers right at the end of the research and discussion, which is more important than being right all the time which no one can claim. Hopefully we will learn to get past that, and focus on facilitating the process.

I thank you MDR, CCJ, Rottweiler and all others for participating and contributing.

I value when we correct each other, and believe this brings out the best in all our potential.
I do not want to lose any relations or respect to personal attacks, and would much rather see us correct all faults to prevent that from happening.

Thank you for rising above the usual level of internet debates
and striving to establish the real truth in all these matters.

if we can do this here, that is what it takes to rebuild America on an even stronger and more sustainable foundation.
Thanks for this!


----------



## JakeStarkey

thereisnospoon said:


> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslim cab drivers have denied homosexual couples rides before who didn't have alchohol in their baggage.  As I stated before, a business owner doesn't have to give a reason for denying service.  It is up to them.  Some will, some won't.  That's America.
> 
> 
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh really?
> Wanna bet. Muslims are a PC protected class in this country.
> They get whatever they want.
Click to expand...


The process of ending discrimination will be pro-active, of course, with a complaint by a consumer that says, "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."


----------



## JakeStarkey

thereisnospoon said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would find a place that was legally discriminating against men for any service and demand they either accept men or allow me to continue to refuse to service women.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever hear of "Curves". This is a chain of fitness centers expressly for women.
> I would like to see a guy try to join one of these and watch the fur fly.
Click to expand...


I agree.  Most guys will not want to do go there, but if they do, the franchises will be put between a rock and a hard space.


----------



## Jarlaxle

skye said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> While this happened in Canada, considering how the left lied about what was going on in Arizona, it is going to happen here sooner or later..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * When I was a kid Barber Shops were for men and Hair Salons were for women.  When did that change?  *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In the 1920s.
> 
> ...when women started to go to the barber to have their long locks cut into a bob.
Click to expand...


Which is evil!


----------



## OriginalShroom

thereisnospoon said:


> OriginalShroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would find a place that was legally discriminating against men for any service and demand they either accept men or allow me to continue to refuse to service women.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ever hear of "Curves". This is a chain of fitness centers expressly for women.
> I would like to see a guy try to join one of these and watch the fur fly.
Click to expand...


Men have tried to join curves and brought lawsuits when refused.  They have lost every time.    When it comes to women youhave to understand the hypocrisy of the law.   

Women are to be treated as equals to men. . Yet they also need to have special laws to protect them from men while they are being trained as front line combat troops to meet the enemy in hand to hand combat. 

Women reporters have to be allowed into the men's locker room but the women's locker room is off limits to men.   

Women won't be stated for being in the men's public restroom but a man caught in the woman's would be. 

Good women can slap a man but only bad men slap a woman.

Female police and prison guards can preform searches, including strip searches and cavity checks of male prisoners.   But men may not go beyond a basic pat down with the back of their Hands on female prisoners. 

I remember watching one show on prisons and when they introduced female guards into the area where the men never left the cell except to shower, the women filed complaints because it wasn't against the rules for the men to masturbate.  

We, as a nation, are very confused about women.   Are they to be protected or are they fully equal to men and get no special considerations? 

  Women are just as confused. ..  The same one who will stand up and demand to be treated equally will be the one to be upset if you don't hold the door open for her or expect her to pay for her own meal 

Molon Labe


----------



## JakeStarkey

_Men have tried to join curves and brought lawsuits when refused. They have lost every time. _

A review on Google of the above allegation is a false statement.


----------



## M.D. Rawlings

skye said:


> M.D. Rawlings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> My feelings exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The feelings of an idiot, but not the natural and constitutional law, affirmed in case law, of this nation's founding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> its too early in the day for me to start arguing with morons like you.
> 
> *YAWN*
Click to expand...



Oops.  Did I say _idiot_?  I should have said _intellectual bigot_, given the fact that I'm defending the indispensable principal of individual liberty universally, while you're implying that the Muslim's First Amendment rights should not be protected . . . the very thing you accuse them of doing.  And make no mistake about it, most of them are just like you, but that doesn't justify your oppression.

But Im the moron.  

I note that you think of yourself as a conservative, apparently, yet you espouse the very same government-empowering, fascist think of the brain-dead political left. 

Get a clue about whats at stake.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ry-have-the-right-to-deny-32.html#post8700263

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ry-have-the-right-to-deny-33.html#post8700779


----------



## Againsheila

You know, she and that guy suing for getting only one napkin belong together, someone should hook them up.


----------



## Bumberclyde

I bet she could have brought a camel in to get a trim.

Muslims should be kicked out of North America. End of story.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Muslims are staying, just like everyone else: end of story.

"I'm defending the indispensable principal of individual liberty universally" does not permit one to live if s/he were an island in the midst of the sea.

You live in the USA, and leges and courts are how we do things.


----------



## thereisnospoon

M.D. Rawlings said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M.D. Rawlings said:
> 
> 
> 
> The feelings of an idiot, but not the natural and constitutional law, affirmed in case law, of this nation's founding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its too early in the day for me to start arguing with morons like you.
> 
> *YAWN*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oops.  Did I say _idiot_?  I should have said _intellectual bigot_, given the fact that I'm defending the indispensable principal of individual liberty universally, while you're implying that the Muslim's First Amendment rights should not be protected . . . the very thing you accuse them of doing.  And make no mistake about it, most of them are just like you, but that doesn't justify your oppression.
> 
> But Im the moron.
> 
> I note that you think of yourself as a conservative, apparently, yet you espouse the very same government-empowering, fascist think of the brain-dead political left.
> 
> Get a clue about whats at stake.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ry-have-the-right-to-deny-32.html#post8700263
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ry-have-the-right-to-deny-33.html#post8700779
Click to expand...


This is Canada. There is no first amendment. Or any other Amendment.
Canada has these special laws regarding the disparaging of racial, cultural and religious minorities. 
Essentially a person in Canada can be incarcerated for merely saying or writing a disparaging or even a mildly offensive word or passage.
Canadian federal law has created unassailable never to be questioned or criticized  Protected Classes with the stroke of the PM's pen.
That's horseshit. 
Note the operative "special"...
These people are now "more equal"....
Something I would imagine those fruit cakes in DC are just drooling to enact here.


----------



## JakeStarkey

thereisnospoon said:


> M.D. Rawlings said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> its too early in the day for me to start arguing with morons like you.
> 
> *YAWN*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oops.  Did I say _idiot_?  I should have said _intellectual bigot_, given the fact that I'm defending the indispensable principal of individual liberty universally, while you're implying that the Muslim's First Amendment rights should not be protected . . . the very thing you accuse them of doing.  And make no mistake about it, most of them are just like you, but that doesn't justify your oppression.
> 
> But Im the moron.
> 
> I note that you think of yourself as a conservative, apparently, yet you espouse the very same government-empowering, fascist think of the brain-dead political left.
> 
> Get a clue about whats at stake.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ry-have-the-right-to-deny-32.html#post8700263
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ry-have-the-right-to-deny-33.html#post8700779
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is Canada. There is no first amendment. Or any other Amendment.
> Canada has these special laws regarding the disparaging of racial, cultural and religious minorities.
> Essentially a person in Canada can be incarcerated for merely saying or writing a disparaging or even a mildly offensive word or passage.
> Canadian federal law has created unassailable never to be questioned or criticized  Protected Classes with the stroke of the PM's pen.
> That's horseshit.
> Note the operative "special"...
> These people are now "more equal"....
> Something I would imagine those fruit cakes in DC are just drooling to enact here.
Click to expand...


Move to the US, then.


----------



## SayMyName

Isn't there a name for this...?

Every syndrome has a name these days. Surely there is a name for people that have a fixation for actively feeling justified going out and looking for trouble. I won't mention names or news items of the recent past, for brevities sake.

One side of me says, I understand perfectly that he doesn't have to cut a woman's hair in his shop for men, for religious reasons and many others, including the argument that women have their own salons.

Another part of me is that if you take a job in the public you can not refuse service based on this or that preference.

Then, there is my natural instinctive core...that has kept me healthy and alive for quite some time. I don't want my hair cut by some one that doesn't want to do it. I like my hair, and have given up the high and tights of many years for a longer look. I also don't go into restaurants where I don't think they like me as an American being there, especially when I can't see the kitchen staff at work. I could go on, but, why give your business to someone that you don't agree with or even like?

There's that question again. Why would you? I think a lot of people out there, kind of like Americans and B-movies about monsters and spacemen of the 1950's, need a distraction from whatever else is going on in their life, or are suffering from a more nebulous version of a modern day Don Quixote syndrome.

Just an observation.


----------



## Noomi

Moonglow said:


> Barbers are not trained to cut women's hair.



Of course, that's why its a freaking BARBER shop. Stupid woman. She needs to go to a damned hairdresser!


----------



## Coyote

JakeStarkey said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really?
> Wanna bet. Muslims are a PC protected class in this country.
> They get whatever they want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The process of ending discrimination will be pro-active, of course, with a complaint by a consumer that says, *"Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."*
Click to expand...


Yup.

However...I not think there is anything wrong with business' that specialize in services for just women or just men. They are different and their needs are different.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Coyote said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really?
> Wanna bet. Muslims are a PC protected class in this country.
> They get whatever they want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The process of ending discrimination will be pro-active, of course, with a complaint by a consumer that says, *"Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup.
> 
> However...I not think there is anything wrong with business' that specialize in services for just women or just men. They are different and their needs are different.
Click to expand...


Yes, I understand that.  And it seems to work OK to this point.


----------



## Tank

They won't cut off a woman's hair, but they will cut off a woman's head


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M.D. Rawlings said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oops.  Did I say _idiot_?  I should have said _intellectual bigot_, given the fact that I'm defending the indispensable principal of individual liberty universally, while you're implying that the Muslim's First Amendment rights should not be protected . . . the very thing you accuse them of doing.  And make no mistake about it, most of them are just like you, but that doesn't justify your oppression.
> 
> But Im the moron.
> 
> I note that you think of yourself as a conservative, apparently, yet you espouse the very same government-empowering, fascist think of the brain-dead political left.
> 
> Get a clue about whats at stake.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ry-have-the-right-to-deny-32.html#post8700263
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ry-have-the-right-to-deny-33.html#post8700779
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is Canada. There is no first amendment. Or any other Amendment.
> Canada has these special laws regarding the disparaging of racial, cultural and religious minorities.
> Essentially a person in Canada can be incarcerated for merely saying or writing a disparaging or even a mildly offensive word or passage.
> Canadian federal law has created unassailable never to be questioned or criticized  Protected Classes with the stroke of the PM's pen.
> That's horseshit.
> Note the operative "special"...
> These people are now "more equal"....
> Something I would imagine those fruit cakes in DC are just drooling to enact here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Move to the US, then.
Click to expand...


Reword first sentence to clarify.
The incident took place in Canada.
I disagree with Canada's "you can't say that" laws.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PaintMyHouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is America of the soon to be past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really?
> Wanna bet. Muslims are a PC protected class in this country.
> They get whatever they want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The process of ending discrimination will be pro-active, of course, with a complaint by a consumer that says, "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."
Click to expand...


 "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."
Any business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone they see fit without cause.
In other words, no one can be compelled, forced or threatened into conducting business with anyone.
For example. If a person walks into my shop and has an attitude, I will ask them to leave.
I do not have to give them a reason.
It's my store and I am the law in my store.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Jughead said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lawyer for the owners also says in their defence they've only ever trained to cut men's hair and that they'd bought a barbershop on the expectation they would only have to serve male clientele.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something here, but aren't barbershops tailored for men only? Everytime I've been inside an old style barbershop, all the customers were men. Hairdressers and beauty salons are tailored for women.
> 
> I guess the reason why barbershops are tailored for men only has to do with the fact that unlike hair stylists, barbers are not trained in fancy hair cuts and styling. If they allow only the women who want basic haircuts, they would be discriminating against the other women. That is why the policy is usually men only.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've never seen a woman getting her hair cut in a barber shop in my entire life.  I don't know why one would, honestly.  Even women who go with really short haircuts typically have some sort of style to it.  Most guys who go into a barber shop are getting a very simple trim or shave.  There's not much to it.
> 
> Interestingly, the gym I go to has a private work out room for ladies only.  I'm guessing this is for women who are more comfortable not working out around the men, but would this practice not be discriminatory as well?  I never see any guys complaining about not being able to use that part of the gym.  It only seems to be an issue with women who have a problem with gender specific services and only when they are the ones not being served by it.
Click to expand...


I've often wondered why any self respecting woman would have an interest in joining or demanding entry into a club or organization reserved exclusively for men.


----------



## The Professor

There is a law firm in Jacksonville, Florida, that specializes in family law and will only accept men as clients.  In each TV advertisement they emphasize they only represent men.  I wonder if they will ever be sued.

http://info.menonlyfamilylawonly.co...m_source=PPC&gclid=CI2P5YSI87wCFUcV7AodoFAAnw


----------



## Bumberclyde

thereisnospoon said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jughead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something here, but aren't barbershops tailored for men only? Everytime I've been inside an old style barbershop, all the customers were men. Hairdressers and beauty salons are tailored for women.
> 
> I guess the reason why barbershops are tailored for men only has to do with the fact that unlike hair stylists, barbers are not trained in fancy hair cuts and styling. If they allow only the women who want basic haircuts, they would be discriminating against the other women. That is why the policy is usually men only.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a woman getting her hair cut in a barber shop in my entire life.  I don't know why one would, honestly.  Even women who go with really short haircuts typically have some sort of style to it.  Most guys who go into a barber shop are getting a very simple trim or shave.  There's not much to it.
> 
> Interestingly, the gym I go to has a private work out room for ladies only.  I'm guessing this is for women who are more comfortable not working out around the men, but would this practice not be discriminatory as well?  I never see any guys complaining about not being able to use that part of the gym.  It only seems to be an issue with women who have a problem with gender specific services and only when they are the ones not being served by it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've often wondered why any self respecting woman would have an interest in joining or demanding entry into a club or organization reserved exclusively for men.
Click to expand...


She be from the island of Lesbos.


----------



## JakeStarkey

thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really?
> Wanna bet. Muslims are a PC protected class in this country.
> They get whatever they want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The process of ending discrimination will be pro-active, of course, with a complaint by a consumer that says, "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."
> *Any business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone they see fit without cause.*
> In other words, no one can be compelled, forced or threatened into conducting business with anyone.
> For example. If a person walks into my shop and has an attitude, I will ask them to leave.
> I do not have to give them a reason.
> It's my store and I am the law in my store.
Click to expand...


Any business owner has the right to refuse service unless he is refusing service to a protected class of individual because he is of that class.

You can't refuse service to a black because he is black.

You can't refuse service to a woman because she's a woman.

You can't refuse service to a Christian because he is a Christian.

You are the law in your store within the confines of the law of We the People.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Bumberclyde said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've never seen a woman getting her hair cut in a barber shop in my entire life.  I don't know why one would, honestly.  Even women who go with really short haircuts typically have some sort of style to it.  Most guys who go into a barber shop are getting a very simple trim or shave.  There's not much to it.
> 
> Interestingly, the gym I go to has a private work out room for ladies only.  I'm guessing this is for women who are more comfortable not working out around the men, but would this practice not be discriminatory as well?  I never see any guys complaining about not being able to use that part of the gym.  It only seems to be an issue with women who have a problem with gender specific services and only when they are the ones not being served by it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've often wondered why any self respecting woman would have an interest in joining or demanding entry into a club or organization reserved exclusively for men.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She be from the island of Lesbos.
Click to expand...


There is one angle.
In some instances all male clubs and organizations were places where business was discussed and at times transactions were completed. Also, issues of personnel such as hiring, promotions, etc. Women's groups often complained this was unfair. That if women were denied access to these exclusive clubs they were then being shut out of important business discussions.
Highly speculative of course. 
I had always thought that is was simple human nature. 
"I am denied, therefore I want"....
The interesting part of this is men rarely if ever felt any inkling of being excluded from women only organizations or clubs. To my knowledge, no man ever clamored to join or sued to get into the Ladies Auxiliary or the local Junior League.
The Daughters of the Confederacy is a highly exclusive club. In fact women only Universities guard their single gender status ferociously. No men allowed. Ever. 
I think this Canadian woman was just a troublemaker. Sent there by operatives trying to make a stink. 
On that note, this thread has reached its expiration date. No need for the smell test. Just throw it away.


----------



## thereisnospoon

The Professor said:


> There is a law firm in Jacksonville, Florida, that specializes in family law and will only accept men as clients.  In each TV advertisement they emphasize they only represent men.  I wonder if they will ever be sued.
> 
> http://info.menonlyfamilylawonly.co...m_source=PPC&gclid=CI2P5YSI87wCFUcV7AodoFAAnw



There is another advertising here. The Law Offices of Cordell and Cordell. 
They do matrimonial law for men only.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

JakeStarkey said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The process of ending discrimination will be pro-active, of course, with a complaint by a consumer that says, "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."
> *Any business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone they see fit without cause.*
> In other words, no one can be compelled, forced or threatened into conducting business with anyone.
> For example. If a person walks into my shop and has an attitude, I will ask them to leave.
> I do not have to give them a reason.
> It's my store and I am the law in my store.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any business owner has the right to refuse service unless he is refusing service to a protected class of individual because he is of that class.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a black because he is black.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a woman because she's a woman.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a Christian because he is a Christian.
> 
> You are the law in your store within the confines of the law of We the People.
Click to expand...


That isn't what you said before.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Quantum Windbag said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."
> *Any business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone they see fit without cause.*
> In other words, no one can be compelled, forced or threatened into conducting business with anyone.
> For example. If a person walks into my shop and has an attitude, I will ask them to leave.
> I do not have to give them a reason.
> It's my store and I am the law in my store.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any business owner has the right to refuse service unless he is refusing service to a protected class of individual because he is of that class.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a black because he is black.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a woman because she's a woman.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a Christian because he is a Christian.
> 
> You are the law in your store within the confines of the law of We the People.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That isn't what you said before.
Click to expand...


You are running your mouth again, mate, so back up.

I can refuse service to someone who does not wear shoes in my pharmacy.

I cannot refuse service simply if he is black.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

JakeStarkey said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any business owner has the right to refuse service unless he is refusing service to a protected class of individual because he is of that class.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a black because he is black.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a woman because she's a woman.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a Christian because he is a Christian.
> 
> You are the law in your store within the confines of the law of We the People.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't what you said before.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are running your mouth again, mate, so back up.
> 
> I can refuse service to someone who does not wear shoes in my pharmacy.
> 
> I cannot refuse service simply if he is black.
Click to expand...


Let me get this straight, you will refuse to serve a white man that is barefoot, but you won't refuse to serve a black man even if he is barefoot. Isn't that racist?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Quantum Windbag said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't what you said before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are running your mouth again, mate, so back up.
> 
> I can refuse service to someone who does not wear shoes in my pharmacy.
> 
> I cannot refuse service simply if he is black.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me get this straight, you will refuse to serve a white man that is barefoot, but you won't refuse to serve a black man even if he is barefoot. Isn't that racist?
Click to expand...


You are dense, but even by your standards you are intensely so here.

Let me get this straight: I can deny anyone (white, black, or you) service in my pharmacy if you aren't wearing shoes.

But I can't deny you service on 14th protections.  Not wearing shoes is not a 14th concern.

But racists or sexists or religionists or ethnocentrists hate public accommodation laws.

Tuff that, huh?


----------



## Quantum Windbag

JakeStarkey said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are running your mouth again, mate, so back up.
> 
> I can refuse service to someone who does not wear shoes in my pharmacy.
> 
> I cannot refuse service simply if he is black.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me get this straight, you will refuse to serve a white man that is barefoot, but you won't refuse to serve a black man even if he is barefoot. Isn't that racist?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are dense, but even by your standards you are intensely so here.
> 
> Let me get this straight: I can deny anyone (white, black, or you) service in my pharmacy if you aren't wearing shoes.
> 
> But I can't deny you service on 14th protections.  Not wearing shoes is not a 14th concern.
> 
> But racists or sexists or religionists or ethnocentrists hate public accommodation laws.
> 
> Tuff that, huh?
Click to expand...


Funny how you are always wrong, isn't it?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Quantum Windbag said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let me get this straight, you will refuse to serve a white man that is barefoot, but you won't refuse to serve a black man even if he is barefoot. Isn't that racist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are dense, but even by your standards you are intensely so here.
> 
> Let me get this straight: I can deny anyone (white, black, or you) service in my pharmacy if you aren't wearing shoes.
> 
> But I can't deny you service on 14th protections.  Not wearing shoes is not a 14th concern.
> 
> But racists or sexists or religionists or ethnocentrists hate public accommodation laws.
> 
> Tuff that, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how you are always wrong, isn't it?
Click to expand...


I on 14th issues, nope.  QWB, your remark above shows why your side is always on the wrong side of American history.

Tis what tis.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

JakeStarkey said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are dense, but even by your standards you are intensely so here.
> 
> Let me get this straight: I can deny anyone (white, black, or you) service in my pharmacy if you aren't wearing shoes.
> 
> But I can't deny you service on 14th protections.  Not wearing shoes is not a 14th concern.
> 
> But racists or sexists or religionists or ethnocentrists hate public accommodation laws.
> 
> Tuff that, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how you are always wrong, isn't it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I on 14th issues, nope.  QWB, your remark above shows why your side is always on the wrong side of American history.
> 
> Tis what tis.
Click to expand...


History only has one side, the past.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Your comment above, QWB, shows why you don't understand history and why you are on the wrong side of things.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The process of ending discrimination will be pro-active, of course, with a complaint by a consumer that says, "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."
> *Any business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone they see fit without cause.*
> In other words, no one can be compelled, forced or threatened into conducting business with anyone.
> For example. If a person walks into my shop and has an attitude, I will ask them to leave.
> I do not have to give them a reason.
> It's my store and I am the law in my store.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any business owner has the right to refuse service unless he is refusing service to a protected class of individual because he is of that class.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a black because he is black.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a woman because she's a woman.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a Christian because he is a Christian.
> 
> You are the law in your store within the confines of the law of We the People.
Click to expand...


You missed my point. Play attention. 
I can reserve the right to decline service to anyone without cause.
Meaning, I do not have to give a reason. And when I mean I don't have to offer a reason, that means I may have a reason, but I do not have to reveal what that reason is.
So, if you walked into my store and say you were some tattoed gold tooth Rastifarian looking individual I may not say " hey I don't like your kind, get out."
That would be unlawful.
I can say " I would ask you to spend you money elsewhere"....And there is not a thing anyone can do about it.


----------



## JakeStarkey

thereisnospoon said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Nope, if you are offering services to the public, you will serve me."
> *Any business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone they see fit without cause.*
> In other words, no one can be compelled, forced or threatened into conducting business with anyone.
> For example. If a person walks into my shop and has an attitude, I will ask them to leave.
> I do not have to give them a reason.
> It's my store and I am the law in my store.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any business owner has the right to refuse service unless he is refusing service to a protected class of individual because he is of that class.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a black because he is black.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a woman because she's a woman.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a Christian because he is a Christian.
> 
> You are the law in your store within the confines of the law of We the People.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You missed my point. Play attention.
> I can reserve the right to decline service to anyone without cause.
> Meaning, I do not have to give a reason. And when I mean I don't have to offer a reason, that means I may have a reason, but I do not have to reveal what that reason is.
> So, if you walked into my store and say you were some tattoed gold tooth Rastifarian looking individual I may not say " hey I don't like your kind, get out."
> That would be unlawful.
> I can say " I would ask you to spend you money elsewhere"....And there is not a thing anyone can do about it.
Click to expand...


You are not paying attention.  

You can be challenged on that and brought to court.

If a surveillance shows you generally discriminate against blacks having access to services, you can be held liable etc.

No, you are not the ultimate power in your store.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any business owner has the right to refuse service unless he is refusing service to a protected class of individual because he is of that class.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a black because he is black.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a woman because she's a woman.
> 
> You can't refuse service to a Christian because he is a Christian.
> 
> You are the law in your store within the confines of the law of We the People.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You missed my point. Play attention.
> I can reserve the right to decline service to anyone without cause.
> Meaning, I do not have to give a reason. And when I mean I don't have to offer a reason, that means I may have a reason, but I do not have to reveal what that reason is.
> So, if you walked into my store and say you were some tattoed gold tooth Rastifarian looking individual I may not say " hey I don't like your kind, get out."
> That would be unlawful.
> I can say " I would ask you to spend you money elsewhere"....And there is not a thing anyone can do about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are not paying attention.
> 
> You can be challenged on that and brought to court.
> 
> If a surveillance shows you generally discriminate against blacks having access to services, you can be held liable etc.
> 
> No, you are not the ultimate power in your store.
Click to expand...

First...Challenged in court?
What is that supposed to mean?
Why is it you people look to the civil courts to cure your every whine and sniffle?
Second, anyone who would seek redress in the courts because "he would not accept my business" has no a legal leg on which to stand...Looking at your argument, based on what would anyone file a suit?
Surveillance? How the hell could anyone tell from a silent video or even one with audio what transpired.
Read carefully...."your money is no good here. Have a nice day"...
Please point out with all of your hypersensitivity where one's rights were being violated.
Stop using the word "if"....
"No, you are not the ultimate power in your store."....Yes I am...
I was an assistant manager at a sports bar. We reserved the right to refuse service to anyone without cause. And we did that on many occasions. There were no suits.
Just people taking their business elsewhere.
Most times it was a bad attitude or showing disrespect to me or the wait staff.
An example we had a group of guys come in to watch football. They took a table and nursed ONE pitcher of beer for three hours. The waitress that had that section was not tipped. The next time they came in, I told them the tables were reserved by people calling in. Yeah, I lied. But so what? My job is to maximize sales. I am not going to serve customers who take up a table and the establishment loses money when I have 20 people who are wanting that table who will spend REAL money. My house. My rules. Don't like it? Find another bar....And there's not a fuckin thing you can do about it.
BTW, we never were sued. Sued? For what? There is no entitlement here. There was no violation of the public accommodations statutes. 
Cut the bullshit. Business owners have rights too.


----------



## JakeStarkey

_First...Challenged in court?
What is that supposed to mean?_

Thoughtful, knowing individuals on this topic are nto going to go along with your "just once more."

Your personal will does not override equal access laws.


----------



## thereisnospoon

JakeStarkey said:


> _First...Challenged in court?
> What is that supposed to mean?_
> 
> Thoughtful, knowing individuals on this topic are nto going to go along with your "just once more."
> 
> Your personal will does not override equal access laws.



At my business, yes it does. As with any other business.
There is not one single precedent that supports your argument.
You didn't answer the questions. It figures.
You can go on belaboring your point. It doesn't make it any more valid.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

JakeStarkey said:


> Your comment above, QWB, shows why you don't understand history and why you are on the wrong side of things.



Let me see if I understand your position.

History has sides, and I am on the wrong side of it because you totally misrepresent my position. 

Tell me something, since you are opposed to everyone being able to won, and even carry, a gun, and history actually shows us that that is the losing side of the debate, does that put you on the wrong side of history? Or is the phrase only valid when it is used by progressive statist assholes?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Quantum Windbag said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your comment above, QWB, shows why you don't understand history and why you are on the wrong side of things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me see if I understand your position.
> 
> History has sides, and I am on the wrong side of it because you totally misrepresent my position.
> 
> Tell me something, since you are opposed to everyone *being able to won*, and even carry, *a gun*, and history actually shows us that that is the losing side of the debate, does that put you on the wrong side of history? Or is the phrase only valid when it is used by progressive statist assholes?
Click to expand...


Your position has been perfectly represented and dismissed.

Your third paragraph shows your disintegration of reason.


----------

