# Obamacare Mess!



## Debbie K. (Nov 15, 2014)

I work in medical billing so I see the end result of Obamacare.  People did not read the fine print.  Deductibles are running anywhere from $2,500 to $6,000.  Because the deductibles are so high, patients are being made to pay for their MRIs, CTs and bloodwork up front so patients aren't getting their ordered tests and aren't returning for followup visits when they need them.  Federal employees have the best healthcare available through Federal Blueshield.  No deductibles!  Low or no copays!  Everyone in DC who composed Obamacare does not have to participate in it!  I could not believe it when it passed!  Doctors and diagnostic facilities have no choice but to collect all of their money up front because the patients are not going to pay their bills!  It is forcing many doctorst to  retire early.  My healtcare plan does not have any coverage for preventative care!  No annual GYN visit.  No checkup, no preventative bloodwork screening!  They will give me coverage for a stroke, heart attack or cancer treatments once they develop.  I just can't check to see if I have a problem developing! Wake up America!  I agree for their needs to be change but not this.  EVERYONE SHOULD BE MADE TO PARTICIPATE IN OBAMACARE, INCLUDING OBAMA!  They are our REPRESENTATIVES and should not be treated any differently than the general population.  Gruber knew exactly what he was doing and should be made to participate in it as well.  If an illegal alien goes into a hospital, their bill is written off as "charity".  A legal, tax paying citizen of the U.S. will be made to pay their deductible and balance on their hospital bill or be sent to collections!   Prisoners get their healthcare for free! Many who are getting insurance for free have no intention of returning to work!  And remember America, your taxes are due on April 15th or the IRS is coming after you with penalties!  If you are illegal, you don't have to pay any taxes or penalties!


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

bookmark


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## Mr. H. (Nov 15, 2014)

Stupid Americans.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

You had ample time to come up with changes. You did not acknowledge the states that opted not to expand medicaid. Nor did you acknowledge the states that came up with their own plan. 

I wanted universal health care. I'm guessing you didn't want that either.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


> You had ample time to come up with changes. You did not acknowledge the states that opted not to expand medicaid. Nor did you acknowledge the states that came up with their own plan.
> 
> I wanted universal health care. I'm guessing you didn't want that either.


I wanted POS democrats like you to LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE.  I'm guessing you didn't want to LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE because you need to take the food off my children's table to make your way in life.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz

I'm not a democrat. Try again.  Do you have anything more than insane rants?


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

The Libs will have a field day on this, and I might even get slammed by my own side........I've been against Obamacare from the start................

I had to drop my insurance at work.  Small company and the rates were high already but I had Blue Cross Blue Shield at 80/20.   Rates went up over 60% and I had no choice but to drop.  Couldn't afford it anymore..........

Wife has old wreck problems..........Now no insurance..........stomach pains and ambulance ride to hospital.........diagnosed with gall stones......bad gal bladder............at emergency room.........sent home after having to put 2  iv bags in her white as a ghost coming in........veins collapsed and the ambulance couldn't get the iv in on the way.............They knew she needed surgery then and there.........but we were sent home.

Went to docs.............said she needed surgery as soon as possible..........went to surgeon and he said the same............also found hernia.............so we attempted to schedule..........Hospital estimated cost at 25k for the surgery even though outpatient................surgeon at 4k

Doc wanted 2k up front, and hospital wanted 11k up front...............$13,000.............up front before any surgery was scheduled.................with and estimated remaining bill of $16,000..............

I had actually registered on the ACA website..........to talk about prices for the family after losing insurance........................open enrollment was over, but anyone already registered could still sign up.............so I enrolled in the bronze plan.........1 week later we scheduled the surgery, after the Policy from Blue Cross kicked in...........PAID 2K to the DOC.............4K to the hospital before being allowed to schedule the surgery...........6k up front..............Had surgery billing was about where the hospital said it would be.................

Blue Cross paid half of the billing by the hospital...........total cost after the Insurance changed the overall cost was 16k...............we got a refund of a little 2k from Blue Cross.  Our cost 4k.............plus insurance premiums.............

But we were able to come up with the money...........If not......we would have been screwed.................I pay less for Obamacare than my old premiums..........but the insurance isn't even close to what we had that we were forced to lose................by higher rates..............My out of pocket would have been half under my old insurance...........

So, I got screwed by Obamacare and lost insurance............with no insurance we were rejected service and are still paying the 6k for the first ambulance ride and service...............4k for the deductable under Obamacare...............plus the premiums..............even lower rates I lost big overall when I lost my insurance.............even though I now have it.

Had I not had the money and credit, we would have not gotten the surgery.........they refused to order it without money up front................rejected at the other time because we didn't have insurance even though surgery was needed................those without the HIGH DEDUCTABLES UP FRONT even with insurance will NOT GET SERVED.................unless they are actually DYING..............

I was better off before even with higher rates...........as now I've had to pay far more for far less insurance.........when taken for what happened.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

Eagle, why in the hell would anyone have a field day with your situation?  

I think it sucks.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


> Eagle, why in the hell would anyone have a field day with your situation?
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> I think it sucks.


My wife's surgeon was jamb up.............GREAT DOCTOR..............the insurance side of what happened to me and my family sucks..........but the outcome isn't as my wife got the surgery she needed..............

In the end, that is all that mattered..........I was fully prepared to kick out the original 13k with 10k on credit cards to get the surgery without insurance.........but with the remained of that bill and the add on of 6k the OUTPATIENT surgery and added ambulance ride would have totaled $35,000 total............

Old rates from work were at 13k a year.  Family coverage went from $1020 a month to $1650 a month at work.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

BTW my insurance before was killing me........I'm not rich by any means, but we get by...............Keeping the insurance from my company was necessary due to the damage in the past from an auto wreck that we were lucky to survive.............

T-Boned by a lady running a stop sign at approx 65mph........we were doing 60 or so only 3 miles from our house..........Had I hit the breaks instead of flooring the gas pedal and turning the wheel hard left me and my wife would be gone now.........It happened in a second...........

I got busted up but nothing major......but my wife was busted up.  broken/crushed left foot...........broken pelvis.........fractured hip..............intestines had to be sewn back together............lacerated liver...........and almost broken neck...............The drive shaft of the truck was found 60 feet in the woods...........as it was sheared off upon impact.............full gas tank flowed into the cab on top of my wife.........the only reason we didn't burn alive was that the positive post of the battery was broken off on impact where we flipped 2 and a half times.........

Which is exactly why I was so prepared to pay the high premiums form work that were costing me 13k a year............but WHEN IT INCREASED I SIMPLY COULDN'T AFFORD IT ANYMORE.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


> You had ample time to come up with changes. You did not acknowledge the states that opted not to expand medicaid. Nor did you acknowledge the states that came up with their own plan.
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> I wanted universal health care. I'm guessing you didn't want that either.


No the hell I didn't.............I had a couple of weeks from the time of the rate increases.........so I dropped it.......

I looked for over insurance away from Obamacare but their rates were high as well.................

so spare me that this is my fault...........THE LAW DEMS PASSED JACKED UP MY PREMIUMS..........PERIOD...............and IT COST ME MY INSURANCE..................

That is what it did for me.........

In the end it saved my ass from possible bankruptcy.............but in the beginning it cost me my insurance.................

So did I get screwed or saved..........It's all a matter of what your opinion is on the whole deal......and on the whole deal INSURANCE RATES OF COMPANIES ARE GOING UP.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Disir said:
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Stop right there! Do you have multiple IDs?


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Sorry for the last outburst..........this subject pisses me off...........went to dsir's post directed to someone else.......

SORRY..........VENTING..............


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Riddle me this....................How can someone making far less than me, with no savings and no credit have gotten the surgery under Obamacare in my circumstance.............They would have been in the same situation at the time of the surgery........having to come up with 6k up front or NO SURGERY...............


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

What pisses me off is the medical treatment for me but not for thee attitude. 

If you had an ambulance service that was owned at the local level by a town or a county and it was sold off to a privately owned company, the cost of an ambulance doubled.  Further, they don't have to respond as quickly.  So,  where was the eyeballing of the contracts at that time? No?  So, that's an easy grand right there. 

When you walk into the ER that's another how much?  In some locations it is necessary to sign yourself in and wait.  So, anybody have a recent bill for the pleasure of sitting in the waiting room?


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

There are people that have been denied medical treatment because they did not have insurance.


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## 007 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


> You had ample time to come up with changes. You did not acknowledge the states that opted not to expand medicaid. Nor did you acknowledge the states that came up with their own plan.
> 
> I wanted universal health care. I'm guessing you didn't want that either.


What is this "YOU had ample time to come up with changes" HORSE SHIT?

Do you NOT REMEMBER the LOCKED DOORS in which obamacare was written behind, that is, REPUBLICANS LOCKED OUT?

Do you NOT REMEMBER the revisions put forth by republicans that were FLAT REJECTED by DEMOCRATS?

Do you NOT REMEMBER that obamacare was passed without the MAJORITY of representatives even READING IT?

Do you NOT REMEMBER that obamacare pasted with FULL DEMOCRAT SUPPORT, and not ONE REPUBLICAN VOTE?

Do you NOT REMEMBER the BRIBES and BUY OFFS it took to get the last couple democrats on board so it COULD PASS?

Now can you say anything more STUPID if you TRY?

For Christ sake, you have to be some kind of absolute fucking MORON... either that or a PATHOLOGICAL LIAR.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

007 said:


> Disir said:
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Do you remember single payer being taken off the table? 

Prior to Obamacare, what was put forth? 

I'll wait.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

Does anyone remember that there was life before Obamacare? 

Was there ANY attempt to regulate the insurance industry?


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## 007 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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Do you know what COMMUNISM IS?

Do you know what TYRANNY IS?

Do you know that the government isn't supposed to be able to FORCE YOU TO BUY SOMETHING, but yet HERE WE ARE?

Do you know that the thanks is all due to DEMOCRATS AND OBAMA?


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

007 said:


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I'll take that as a no, you don't know.


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## 007 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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Likewise.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


> What pisses me off is the medical treatment for me but not for thee attitude.
> 
> If you had an ambulance service that was owned at the local level by a town or a county and it was sold off to a privately owned company, the cost of an ambulance doubled.  Further, they don't have to respond as quickly.  So,  where was the eyeballing of the contracts at that time? No?  So, that's an easy grand right there.
> 
> When you walk into the ER that's another how much?  In some locations it is necessary to sign yourself in and wait.  So, anybody have a recent bill for the pleasure of sitting in the waiting room?


For the ambulance ride, tests and service it was 6k...........yet it was a crowded night so they put her in a wheel chair and carted her into the waiting room...........No Iv's even though she was white as a ghost.........as I already said they couldn't get the iv started in the ambulance.........

We waited 4 hours for service in this condition............

and some of those in front of us had a sprained ankle..........and low and behold a man being arrested was taken in front of us...........with police escort..........he didn't even look sick...........was escorted after being checked out by 2 police officers in hand cuffs.................

The medical service at that hospital sucked..........and the surgery was needed then and there but the Doctor said he had other priorities that night and my wife's surgery even though needed wasn't going to happen.

So, we are still paying 6k for an ambulance ride.............2 iv's , a sonogram............which verified blockage.............and a prescription that we filled for anti biotics on the way home.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

007 said:


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The next time you see an 80 year old that is being taken to a hospital in an ambulance. You be sure and tell them that the ambulance increase is because of your fear of communism.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

007 said:


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You have nothing but the insane ramblings of someone that has no clue what communism and tyranny is all about.


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## 007 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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The next time the government forces you to buy something, you tell everyone you're good with that.


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## 007 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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Your pretending obamacare is some sort of across the board miracle for everyone is pure ignorance, stupidity and apathy.

Are you one of the stupid people Gruber is referring to?


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Disir said:
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Yep. My dad just had a heart attack and spent 6 hours waiting


007 said:


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Grow up!


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

007 said:


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Go back and read my posts.


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## 007 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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Go back and read mine.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

007 said:


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Except that your answer is in my prior posts.


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## Manonthestreet (Nov 15, 2014)

For more significant medical needs, such as surgical care, go to a facility that provides up-front ‘package’ pricing for patients paying in cash, like the Surgery Center of Oklahoma and Regency Healthcare. These facilities offer real prices that are typically much less than what most hospitals charge. You can also use a service like MediBid, where doctors bid on providing your treatment. How To Opt Out Of Obamacare


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## Iceweasel (Nov 15, 2014)

The lies won't become fully evidence to the slowly waking masses until next year when premiums get in gear. It was all a parlor trick, you don't get something for nothing. Adding care and bodies is going to cost more, period. It is a wealth redistribution plan more than anything.


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## 007 (Nov 15, 2014)

Iceweasel said:


> The lies won't become fully evidence to the slowly waking masses until next year when premiums get in gear. It was all a parlor trick, you don't get something for nothing. Adding care and bodies is going to cost more, period. It is a wealth redistribution plan more than anything.


Not to mention government taking control over a very large portion of the economy, and no politician loves that more than a socialist, _"we have to spread the wealth around,"_ democrat.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

Taking control=regulating an industry that bankrupts people and denies treatment.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Iceweasel said:


> The lies won't become fully evidence to the slowly waking masses until next year when premiums get in gear. It was all a parlor trick, you don't get something for nothing. Adding care and bodies is going to cost more, period. It is a wealth redistribution plan more than anything.


I have yet to call to get the bronze plan again.......I'm expecting higher rates.....until we call within the next month I will not know the actual increases..................

Should know within a couple of weeks................but I do know that my rates at work went through the roof because of Obamacare and made it impossible to keep..................

Something those promoting it will not really discuss............even when shown how it has hurt millions in this country to rising rates.............

If you like your plan you can keep your plan..................Was a lie.............as it didn't weigh the added costs of keeping it.

We'll save you 2500......a year..........on my current premiums versus old I am saving that amount for a 60/40 plan versus a 80/20 plan ........had I opted for silver..............the plans would have cost the same as my old insurance rates before Obamacare..............but with a 70/30 plan instead of an 80/20 plan..................YET the out of pocket is the same as the BRONZE PLAN...............6250 deduct per person....per year........max at 12,500 a year...............Deducts way higher than my old plan......................

So what have they suceeded at by passing it in my situation.........lower rates for HIGH DEDUCTS.......High Risk insurance.......more out of pocket for service.................

What has that really fixed......................and to pay for the new laws companies are raising rates across the board.


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## AtticusF (Nov 15, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> I work in medical billing so I see the end result of Obamacare.  People did not read the fine print.  Deductibles are running anywhere from $2,500 to $6,000.  Because the deductibles are so high, patients are being made to pay for their MRIs, CTs and bloodwork up front so patients aren't getting their ordered tests and aren't returning for followup visits when they need them.  Federal employees have the best healthcare available through Federal Blueshield.  No deductibles!  Low or no copays!  Everyone in DC who composed Obamacare does not have to participate in it!  I could not believe it when it passed!  Doctors and diagnostic facilities have no choice but to collect all of their money up front because the patients are not going to pay their bills!  It is forcing many doctorst to  retire early.  My healtcare plan does not have any coverage for preventative care!  No annual GYN visit.  No checkup, no preventative bloodwork screening!  They will give me coverage for a stroke, heart attack or cancer treatments once they develop.  I just can't check to see if I have a problem developing! Wake up America!  I agree for their needs to be change but not this.  EVERYONE SHOULD BE MADE TO PARTICIPATE IN OBAMACARE, INCLUDING OBAMA!  They are our REPRESENTATIVES and should not be treated any differently than the general population.  Gruber knew exactly what he was doing and should be made to participate in it as well.  If an illegal alien goes into a hospital, their bill is written off as "charity".  A legal, tax paying citizen of the U.S. will be made to pay their deductible and balance on their hospital bill or be sent to collections!   Prisoners get their healthcare for free! Many who are getting insurance for free have no intention of returning to work!  And remember America, your taxes are due on April 15th or the IRS is coming after you with penalties!  If you are illegal, you don't have to pay any taxes or penalties!




Yep, the GOP -- who are now in control -- should act immediately to remove high deductibles/copays for lower income individuals.  But instead of improving Obamacare for the  majority of citizens, they will try to repeal it.  And, yes we can afford it.

As to "illegals" -- quickest way to solve that problem is make those who have been here awhile working hard, "legal."  That's what Obama is proposing, but the white wingers won't have it.


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## Manonthestreet (Nov 15, 2014)

Case you havent noticed regulating something has no meaning anymore, I give you the banking and financial industry. Regulated to the max none of it enforced.


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## Iceweasel (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


> Taking control=regulating an industry that bankrupts people and denies treatment.


That can't deny treatment if it's in the contract.


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## Manonthestreet (Nov 15, 2014)

ITs going to come down to Americans refusing to participate in this


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


> Taking control=regulating an industry that bankrupts people and denies treatment.


taking control = higher premiums across the spectrum causing people to drop coverage

taking control = paying nearly the same for high risk coverage when you used to have lower deduct plans

taking control = forced to take these insurance plans with high deducts or not have insurance at all

taking control = no service if you don't have the cash up front for the poor.  again, would they have had the 6k?

Obamacare addresses problems, and ignores others................It has done damage, and has done good...........it my case it damaged me and then helped me making me wonder if it helped or hurt me.............either way my insurance is much worse than I had before.................while I may save over the year if I need it I basically pay for a lot of my doctors bill under it.............so until you reach the thresh hold at the Doctors office where bronze kicks in it's on you.............prescription drugs are about the same under Obamacare......I know because it does pay there..............and on x-rays and tests it pays before the deduct...............

But on basic visits.......it's on me now............I pay for the doctors visits...........How would I know this.........because when my daughter went for having a bad cold.........I paid it all.  Except for prescriptions.........................

So in my situation..............should I be happy about it..............If I was a DEM..............I'd SAY RAH RAH WE SAVED YOU................In a way you'd be right...........as without the insurance I'd be on the verge of bankruptcy right now If I'd have had to pay for it all....................but it IGNORES that I LOST INSURANCE even at the higher rates.............................

You can't swing a two edged sword without cutting both ways............Should I thank someone for stabbing me in the back and then saving me from bleeding to death.................Obamacare CUT ME BOTH WAYS...............

and that's the deal.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Iceweasel said:
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Uh..........it was discussed a few years ago.  There was to be an increase and then leveled off.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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Leveled off at what.  Mount Everest.................as I told you my rates went up over 60%............forcing me out.......................

Small company, so the rate increases are not the same as a bigger one........but you ignored that damage and even ignore it now...........

It has raised rates across the board for all already.............while they are probably half the increase as mine people are paying a price for it............

Uh.......that was also discussed a few years ago as well...........

as was the 30 hour rule.........Uh...........

and now in a few weeks I'll get to find out my new rates of Obamacare............rumor has it I'll be paying more for less again............but wait........I could pay my old rates for SILVER................SILVER IS PRETTY and considered valuable.................Kind of like going to the Olympics............going for GOLD under Obamacare.........like we are competing for medals..........

BUT UH..............the DEDUCTS are the same for each person covered per year to GET THE SILVER MEDAL................$6250 per person per year...............the thresh hold when it kicks being a little lower for basic service.................

Uh...........that was dicussed a few years ago.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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And the reason that you are against universal health care is.....?


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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My deductible is extremely high as well.  I live in an area with piss poor health care as it is.  And your reason for not going for universal health care is.........?


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## Manonthestreet (Nov 15, 2014)

Wont fix anything   how bout that.....more of the same


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## RKMBrown (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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If not a democrat, what?  A communist?


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

Manonthestreet said:


> Wont fix anything   how bout that.....more of the same



Won't fix what?


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


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Wrong answer. Try again.


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## Manonthestreet (Nov 15, 2014)

right answer try being honest


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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TAKE 2 VA problems and get back to me in the morning..............working real well there isn't it..............People dying to get care..........................and have been for a long time..................

and it leads to what you really want..........and Obamacare was to get the foot in the door.............to IGNORE the damage it does..............To later propose the only way to fix it.............is Universal Care.......................

Riddle me this................My wife is disabled.............we haven't applied...............even though it would help us financially...........and even though all of her doctors are saying to do it.....................why would I not do it then.....................

We have contemplated it again..............but but but...........We don't get to keep our current doctor under Medicare if we get it..............We must choose new Doctors.............and god forbid a new surgeon if she needs more surgery...........HOPEFULLY NOT.............but we didn't want to have to go to a select list of DOCS for this........we wanted the best...........because we know others who have used him...............

Not available under Medicare...............because he only does Surgery at one hospital...........and that is not allowed under Medicaid..............if we go the Disability route....................

That is a form of Universal Care...........Where it limits who you can see already.............before Obamacare was even around.................

So for now...........we weigh our options and OPT OUT of DISABILITY.........yet it is still on the table..............

These are the things you IGNORE UNDER UNIVERSAL CARE..............as you IGNORE THE DAMAGING SIDE OF OBAMACARE............


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

Manonthestreet said:


> right answer try being honest



The right answer is that outside of your socialism response-you have nothing.  The biggest argument that you can come up with is um communism.  Thanks for playing. Have a great day.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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Marxism?  You pick the word, but don't pretend it's some form of free market capitalism, cause it's not.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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My dad is a vet.  Try again. That isn't an answer.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


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What else do you have?


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## Manonthestreet (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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Talk about one trick pony........standard dis ....ummmm ummm wrong try again.......pathetic


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


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> ...



I'm a Vet......My son's a Vet.........and guess what..........after getting out he applied for the programmed health Insurance under the veterans insurance plan for member who got out during the War..........Under that plan he got FREE INSURANCE...........Yep............FREE.................

He needed it once............he kicked a stump and broke his small toe................so he got out the numbers and called the VA and asked what to do..................Can I see a DOCTOR for my possible broken toe..............

They said they could schedule an appointment for him a month down the road..........but he said I think it's broken...............so they said...........go to the VA HOSPITAL 3 hours away from where we live................

and check in and if they are not crowded they may or may not see you.................THAT IS WHAT THE VA SAID DSIR............

Do you want to know what I said DSIR...............Fuck the VA...........I took him to our doctor and paid for it...........He had a clean small break and they taped the toe together..............Went back a couple of weeks later to re xray and the break was healing clean by taping it together...............

It wasn't worth the drive to go to the VA hospital and wait forever, TO MAYBE GET SEEN as told to my son by the VA..............

So rather than deal with that BS we went down the road and dealt with it ourself...................

He has to date not used this insurance whatsoever.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Veterans Eligibility - Health Benefits


Were discharged from the military because of a disability (not preexisting), early out, or hardship.

Previous years' household income is below VA's National Income or Geographical-Adjusted Thresholds.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Riddle me this....................Will DSIR own up to the damage done by Obamacare????????????????

Will she OWN UP to knowing that it has major flaws even though her own side knows it??????????

What needs to be fixed with it DSIR?????????????   or is it just dandy as it is??????????

Uh...........your only answer at ignoring the damage is Universal Care or European style health care..............


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Intermission music as DSIR refuses to acknowledge the damage done..........


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## Debbie K. (Nov 15, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> I work in medical billing so I see the end result of Obamacare.  People did not read the fine print.  Deductibles are running anywhere from $2,500 to $6,000.  Because the deductibles are so high, patients are being made to pay for their MRIs, CTs and bloodwork up front so patients aren't getting their ordered tests and aren't returning for followup visits when they need them.  Federal employees have the best healthcare available through Federal Blueshield.  No deductibles!  Low or no copays!  Everyone in DC who composed Obamacare does not have to participate in it!  I could not believe it when it passed!  Doctors and diagnostic facilities have no choice but to collect all of their money up front because the patients are not going to pay their bills!  It is forcing many doctorst to  retire early.  My healtcare plan does not have any coverage for preventative care!  No annual GYN visit.  No checkup, no preventative bloodwork screening!  They will give me coverage for a stroke, heart attack or cancer treatments once they develop.  I just can't check to see if I have a problem developing! Wake up America!  I agree for their needs to be change but not this.  EVERYONE SHOULD BE MADE TO PARTICIPATE IN OBAMACARE, INCLUDING OBAMA!  They are our REPRESENTATIVES and should not be treated any differently than the general population.  Gruber knew exactly what he was doing and should be made to participate in it as well.  If an illegal alien goes into a hospital, their bill is written off as "charity".  A legal, tax paying citizen of the U.S. will be made to pay their deductible and balance on their hospital bill or be sent to collections!   Prisoners get their healthcare for free! Many who are getting insurance for free have no intention of returning to work!  And remember America, your taxes are due on April 15th or the IRS is coming after you with penalties!  If you are illegal, you don't have to pay any taxes or penalties!



Medical Assistance was not created to be a way of life!


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Update..................

Got the update in the mail for the BRONZE PLAN............for 2015.........

11% increase on the premium.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> Debbie K. said:
> 
> 
> > I work in medical billing so I see the end result of Obamacare.  People did not read the fine print.  Deductibles are running anywhere from $2,500 to $6,000.  Because the deductibles are so high, patients are being made to pay for their MRIs, CTs and bloodwork up front so patients aren't getting their ordered tests and aren't returning for followup visits when they need them.  Federal employees have the best healthcare available through Federal Blueshield.  No deductibles!  Low or no copays!  Everyone in DC who composed Obamacare does not have to participate in it!  I could not believe it when it passed!  Doctors and diagnostic facilities have no choice but to collect all of their money up front because the patients are not going to pay their bills!  It is forcing many doctorst to  retire early.  My healtcare plan does not have any coverage for preventative care!  No annual GYN visit.  No checkup, no preventative bloodwork screening!  They will give me coverage for a stroke, heart attack or cancer treatments once they develop.  I just can't check to see if I have a problem developing! Wake up America!  I agree for their needs to be change but not this.  EVERYONE SHOULD BE MADE TO PARTICIPATE IN OBAMACARE, INCLUDING OBAMA!  They are our REPRESENTATIVES and should not be treated any differently than the general population.  Gruber knew exactly what he was doing and should be made to participate in it as well.  If an illegal alien goes into a hospital, their bill is written off as "charity".  A legal, tax paying citizen of the U.S. will be made to pay their deductible and balance on their hospital bill or be sent to collections!   Prisoners get their healthcare for free! Many who are getting insurance for free have no intention of returning to work!  And remember America, your taxes are due on April 15th or the IRS is coming after you with penalties!  If you are illegal, you don't have to pay any taxes or penalties!
> ...


Being in Medical Billiing...............Does my story repeat in your experience............Same kind of issues and or rate increases?


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)

Manhattan Institute - The ObamaCare Impact

Shows the increases by State or county...................In my State of Alabama the rate increase showed 11% which was right in line with the increase I posted for my age group.

But in the below 40 and above 64 it went up by over 40%.

Check out the map.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 15, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
> ...



I give you the opportunity to pick the description of your marxist plans and you ask me what else I have?  What more do you want my blood too?


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 15, 2014)




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## RKMBrown (Nov 15, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


>


gee whiz I wonder why the communist states are catching a break as they force feed communism up the ass of the rest of the country...


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Yep.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



The wait depends on the location.  So, again, it's not an indication of universal health care.   Further,  you can look at what went wrong and where for the VA issues.  The comparison is inadequate.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Intermission music as DSIR refuses to acknowledge the damage done..........



Some of us actually work for a living, hon. Work.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

Manonthestreet said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > Manonthestreet said:
> ...



What's pathetic is that you lack the capacity to come up with anything besides um.....socialism.


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## Disir (Nov 15, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> Debbie K. said:
> 
> 
> > I work in medical billing so I see the end result of Obamacare.  People did not read the fine print.  Deductibles are running anywhere from $2,500 to $6,000.  Because the deductibles are so high, patients are being made to pay for their MRIs, CTs and bloodwork up front so patients aren't getting their ordered tests and aren't returning for followup visits when they need them.  Federal employees have the best healthcare available through Federal Blueshield.  No deductibles!  Low or no copays!  Everyone in DC who composed Obamacare does not have to participate in it!  I could not believe it when it passed!  Doctors and diagnostic facilities have no choice but to collect all of their money up front because the patients are not going to pay their bills!  It is forcing many doctorst to  retire early.  My healtcare plan does not have any coverage for preventative care!  No annual GYN visit.  No checkup, no preventative bloodwork screening!  They will give me coverage for a stroke, heart attack or cancer treatments once they develop.  I just can't check to see if I have a problem developing! Wake up America!  I agree for their needs to be change but not this.  EVERYONE SHOULD BE MADE TO PARTICIPATE IN OBAMACARE, INCLUDING OBAMA!  They are our REPRESENTATIVES and should not be treated any differently than the general population.  Gruber knew exactly what he was doing and should be made to participate in it as well.  If an illegal alien goes into a hospital, their bill is written off as "charity".  A legal, tax paying citizen of the U.S. will be made to pay their deductible and balance on their hospital bill or be sent to collections!   Prisoners get their healthcare for free! Many who are getting insurance for free have no intention of returning to work!  And remember America, your taxes are due on April 15th or the IRS is coming after you with penalties!  If you are illegal, you don't have to pay any taxes or penalties!
> ...



Medical care was not created to drive people into poverty.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Intermission music as DSIR refuses to acknowledge the damage done..........
> ...


Really...........Wow.................

You ready to own up to the dark side of Obamacare and the damage done...............

Your side wants damage so you can get your wet dream of Universal Care............


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## Judicial review (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> You had ample time to come up with changes. You did not acknowledge the states that opted not to expand medicaid. Nor did you acknowledge the states that came up with their own plan.
> 
> I wanted universal health care. I'm guessing you didn't want that either.


Time? You fucking asshole. What about a fucking choice?  You dont want to fuck with me dude. Im so smart I'll have you digging your own grave in this discussion.


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## Judicial review (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Intermission music as DSIR refuses to acknowledge the damage done..........
> ...


When you become unemployed due to businesses getting taxed up the ass for universal health care dont come here you can shoot yourself for stupidity. Universal healthcare is dead. High risk pool are the way of the future and buying accross state lines.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

natrualgas said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


Another idea that was posted during the debates on this was to allow businesses to pool their employees to get better rates of insurance...........Had that side of the equation been allowed then the company I work for could have joined a pool of other companies to get better rates for insurance as the number of employees would give bargaining power for better rates............

This is how Larger Corps get better rates...........as the Insurance companies would risk losing a lot of business if another insurance company gives a better deal.  In other words using capitalism to make the insurance companies compete for the business............

The other side was also Tort reform.  Malpractice insurance also drives up the cost for medical treatment.  The left argued up and down over that one as well.......and denied that under Tort reform that people still get major settlements for actual Malpractice..............

The purpose of Obamacare was to lower prices...........FOR EVERYONE................It has failed in that aspect as everyone's rates in business is going up and not down...........same for the exchanges as ALL ARE GOING UP in price..............

It was never a way to lower the actual cost of Medical service.........It was simply a way to find a way to pay for all of it, and force a whole lot of Americans to pay more to pay for the services of the lower income groups.......

There were better ways to fix the system, and it was never needed to attempt a full fix with one law that was so large that no one could even read it in time for the vote............Creating a massive Red Tape machine which is ultimately what Gov't is famous for and always has been.

They will continue to allow the damage and lost jobs to get to their ultimate goal of Universal Care.


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## Politico (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> Debbie K. said:
> 
> 
> > Debbie K. said:
> ...


Agreed. It just turned out that way.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

Injury Classifications for Turtle Bites Burning Water Skis Here s Rand Paul 8217 s Hilarious Obamacare Rant Video TheBlaze.com

With the implementation of Obamacare, doctors will soon be required to use roughly* 122,000 new medical diagnostic codes *to inform the federal government of injuries sustained by Americans, so says Kentucky Senator Rand Paul.

The new codes, Sen. Paul explained, include classifications for* “injuries sustained from a turtle,” “walking into a lamppost” and “injuries sustained from burning water skis.”*

“Your government just wants to take care of you,” he added, criticizing the new law’s _*9,000-plus pages of new regulations*_. “They don’t think you’re smart enough to make these decisions.”

Physicians currently have about 18,000 medical diagnostic codes, called ICD-9, to choose from to help them inform insurers of their patients’ ailments. But according to Paul (himself a physician), Obamacare will require physicians to* adopt roughly 122,000 new codes — and some of them sound downright ridiculous.*

“Included among these codes,” the senator continued, “will be *312 new codes for injuries from animals; 72 new codes for injuries just from birds; 9 new codes for ‘injuries from the macaw.”‘*

“The macaw?” he asked. “I’ve asked physicians all over the country, ‘Have you ever seen an injury from a macaw?”‘


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > You had ample time to come up with changes. You did not acknowledge the states that opted not to expand medicaid. Nor did you acknowledge the states that came up with their own plan.
> ...


You are exactly right.  The rates are going up.  Double digits in some cases.  This is not the answer to anything!  Patient after patient that I see in our medical office are regretting that they signed up.  Those who cannot see the problems with Obamacare are usually not enrolled in it.  They have private insurance.  They say that things need to change but have no idea what the changes were because they are not participating in it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Many of the people who signed up for Obamacare took policies with $6,500 deductibles.  The likelihood of a young, healthy person using $6,500 worth of benefits a year are small.  People do not understand the difference between a copay, deductible, etc.  Many of the policies not only have a deductible, but a copay.  In addition, to the deductible and copay, some have 20% balances due.

I do medical billing for a living (15 years) and have worked in medical offices for more than 20 years.  I know, firsthand, what I am talking about.  I will give you an example of one of the senior plans.....For a $350 medical consult with a specialist, a doctor only gets paid $51 of the entire bill (that's it folks!)  $40 of the $51 that the doctor gets paid is from the patient's copay!  The insurance company only pays $11.  Let's say that a patient actually pays their $40 (which is rare with seniors).   The doctor's payment is $51 for the visit.  50% of the $51 is eaten up with taxes, leaving him with $25.50. Out of the $25.50, he must then pay his employees, office rent, medical supplies, postage used because people won't pay their bills, utility bills, office supplies, fax machines, printers, not to mention any benefits or retirement that he might offer his patients.  Are you kidding me people? If the patient does not pay their copay, which is becoming more common, the doctor only gets $11.50 for a 60 minute consult which is taxed at 50%. Read your Explanation of Benefits that come in the mail after your visit!!!!!!!!! The backlash of this mess is that doctors are leaving the medical field early, they are not hiring full time employees, insurance companies are raking in the bucks and the federal is collecting money from you to pay for everything.  If the federal government is made to participate in Obamacare, things would change without a doubt because no one would stand for this.  You are going to wind up with poor healthcare all around.  And folks, your elected officials are not waiting in line like the rest of us for our office visits.  In most cases, their doctors are making house calls or getting preferential treatment in their doctor's offices.  Many times, their medical bills are written off as "professional courtesy"!  I couldn't believe that the American public went along with this from the beginning and I still can't believe they are not protesting against this plan.  Someone is making a tremendous amount of money on Obamacare and it is not the physicians.


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Injury Classifications for Turtle Bites Burning Water Skis Here s Rand Paul 8217 s Hilarious Obamacare Rant Video TheBlaze.com
> 
> With the implementation of Obamacare, doctors will soon be required to use roughly* 122,000 new medical diagnostic codes *to inform the federal government of injuries sustained by Americans, so says Kentucky Senator Rand Paul.
> 
> ...


You are exactly right about the codes.  Ridiculous!  You doctor's office just can't bill your insurance company for "hypertension".  They have to break it down as to the cause which leads to many other codes and a substantial increase in the time it takes medical billers to do their jobs.  And, what people don't know is that their insurance companies won't pay for bloodwork and diagnostic testing if the codes used are not what the government deems correct.

Example, if a woman goes to the GYN and states that she been lethargic, her physician may want to order some bloodwork on her.  If the GYN uses the code that states that the patient has had an "annual GYN visit", the bill will not be paid.  If the doctor uses the codes that represent chronic fatigue syndrome, etc. (which they will use just to get the patient's bill paid)


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Injury Classifications for Turtle Bites Burning Water Skis Here s Rand Paul 8217 s Hilarious Obamacare Rant Video TheBlaze.com
> ...


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Injury Classifications for Turtle Bites Burning Water Skis Here s Rand Paul 8217 s Hilarious Obamacare Rant Video TheBlaze.com
> ...


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Injury Classifications for Turtle Bites Burning Water Skis Here s Rand Paul 8217 s Hilarious Obamacare Rant Video TheBlaze.com
> ...


(cont'd) then you are stuck with "chronic fatigue syndrome" on your personal health record permanently which then gives you a pre-exhisting health condition.  There were a group of codes that physicians could use to "rule out certain health conditions".  They are no longer allowed to use them!  Gruber was correct in that the average person does not understand coding, deductibles, balance billing, etc.  And the government went along with this and it is a disgrace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> Debbie K. said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

Our office has been trying to educate our patients, especially the elderly, about the difference between a deductible, copay, balance billing, etc.  The bottom line for our patients has been to purchase the cheapest plan.  When they find out that nothing is covered until they have paid the first $2,500-$6,000 out of pocket, they are furious with the "doctor"!  Young, healthy people are paying for everyone else.  And as far as people with pre-existing conditions being covered now - they are but Obama did not put a cap on what the insurance companies could charge for premiums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The only people who benefit from the "pre-existing condition" clause are those on medicaid.  This only encourages people on medicaid not to seek employment.

And the amount of fraud that is going on is outrageous.  We have had patients that are "doctor hopping" and   getting pain medications from multiple physicians.  They in turn, sell the prescription medications for money.  That's right folks, they are taking meds and selling them for their own profit so you are getting screwed again because there are no programs that actually enforce monitoring of drugs.  If you are caught once doing this, you should not be able to participate in Obamacare.  Our office reported several patients to both Medicare and Medicaid and we were told that there was nothing they could do about it.


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

_Medical Assistance was not created to be a way of life!_

^^^^
That is your ulterior motive. It has nothing to do with you giving a damn.


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > You had ample time to come up with changes. You did not acknowledge the states that opted not to expand medicaid. Nor did you acknowledge the states that came up with their own plan.
> ...


I'm actually a Republican!  I am middle class at best and proud of it.  I work and so did my husband for 43 years.  So we are on a fixed income.  In addition, we are watching grandchildren to help our children so why would I want to take food from your children?  I do not believe that the government should be handling health care, especially when they don't know what they are doing and are deceiving the public.  I believe people should work and get paid a decent wage.  I don't expect anyone to pay my way.  Medicaid and Welfare SHOULD NOT BE A WAY OF LIFE!  That is not what it was set up to do and you are very foolish to think that the system won't go bust if this keeps up.  I also don't believe in deceiving the government as many do by getting multiple welfare checks at the same address, selling prescription drugs that they get for free from Medicaid and free cell phones that were meant for those who "can't afford a phone in case of a medical emergency".  My husband and I worked multiple jobs to put our children through school.  At one point I worked 7 days a week (3 jobs).  SO WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO CONTINUE TO WORK 7 DAYS A WEEK TO SUPPORT SOMEONE THAT JUST DOESN'T FEEL LIKE WORKING AT ALL BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING EVERYTHING FOR FREE FROM A GOVERNMENT THAT ADMITTEDLY IS BANKING ON THEIR GENERAL POPULATION BEING "STUPID"!  DON'T BE SO QUICK TO JUDGE AND EDUCATE YOURSELF ON WHAT IS BEING DISCUSSED.


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

Bam, it's all right there. Nice job.


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> _Medical Assistance was not created to be a way of life!_
> 
> ^^^^
> That is your ulterior motive. It has nothing to do with you giving a damn.


I certainly give a damn as I was uninsured my entire childhood and went without healthcare.  This is not the way to approach this.  What kind of nation do you want?  This entire healthcare bill was written "prior to Obama's election".  These were not his ideas.  I encourage you to look at the history of how welfare came about.  We are becoming very weak as a nation and I am truly concerned and troubled.  The money will run out!


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > _Medical Assistance was not created to be a way of life!_
> ...



Your ulterior motive is showing. It has nothing to do with medical care. It is about your ideology.


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

I work


Iceweasel said:


> The lies won't become fully evidence to the slowly waking masses until next year when premiums get in gear. It was all a parlor trick, you don't get something for nothing. Adding care and bodies is going to cost more, period. It is a wealth redistribution plan more than anything.


You are exactly right. But the wealth redistribution plan is backfiring!  They are bankrupting the middle class.  The deductibles that were $6,500 are going over $8,000 this coming year.  Watch what happens!  The sad part is that if a veteran goes into a hospital with just Medicare and no secondary insurance, he will be hounded and reported to credit bureaus until he pays.  Those who are lucky enough to have a secondary insurance will find that they will still owe balances.  I have a secondary insurance that my husband and I pay $500 a month for in addition to our primary insurance and I still have to pay balances.  A prisoner's healthcare is covered completely.  An illegal immigrant's hospital bill is written off as "charity".  American citizens can lose their homes over high medical bills, illegal immigrants are paying for their homes outright.  They can well afford to as they pay no taxes!  Where is the outrage!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

When you care about medical care and this overrides your need to insert your ideology-look me up.


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

And there is no ulterior motive here.  FOR THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME, PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELVES.  I do know what I am talking about,


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

I work


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> When you care about medical care and this overrides your need to insert your ideology-look me up.


IDEOLOGY


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

IDEOLOGY OR TRUTH!  You judge so quickly.  I am a former cancer patient who has been put through this  medical system for the past 10 years.  Even with two insurances, I still had over $15,000 worth of medical bills last year that weren't covered.  I am near retirement but can't because I  have to pay my medical bills.  I work in a medical office in a low income area and actually assist the poor and elderly in obtaining insurance and paying their bills.  I work for a wonderful physician who is being forced to close his primary care practice because his patients won't pay their bills.  AND HE IS A DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  We are helping to educate those who signed up for Obamacare.  These patients are devasted because they were expecting low deductibles and premiums.  They can't pay their bills and most are not showing up for needed follow up care.  SHAME ON YOU FOR BEING SO SURE OF YOURSELF WITHOUT KNOWING FACTS!


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## RKMBrown (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> Debbie K. said:
> 
> 
> > Debbie K. said:
> ...


Correct.  It took government management to make that happen.


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > Debbie K. said:
> ...



Wrong.  That took a lot of people not paying attention for years and years and years.  You didn't want to pay attention to the insurance companies before. You don't want to pay attention to them now. You sure as hell don't want to pay attention to the increase in prices due to hospital mergers.  So, when this becomes an actual concern and you can move beyond um....communism then you let me know.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
> ...


Let me get this straight.  You agree with me 100%.  But because I disagreed with a POS democrat, aka. Disir, you feel the need to argue with me?   Are you trying to say you are Disir's alternate personality?


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## RKMBrown (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
> ...


You are full of bullshit, bile, and lies.


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Debbie K. said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



I'm not a democrat.


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Hospital mergers increase prices, dickwad.  The insurance companies increase prices, dickwad.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
> ...


What makes you think I'm for government allowing monopolies and oligopolies?   What gave you this impression?


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > Debbie K. said:
> ...


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Honestly? I don't really give a hot damn for what you are for. You post like you get paid 25 cents a line.  So, when you are ready to actually tackle issues let me know. Until then, you can just fuck off.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
> ...


Let me get this straight, you are just a bitch that runs around claiming what people think, having no idea what they think, that about sum up your shtick?


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



Still can't handle the issues?  

Yeah, I'm a bitch in your world.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
> ...


I can handle the issues just fine.  What I can't fix is dumb asses like you who vote for democrats or republicans.  You know the two parties who both defend these monopolies, yeah that's my problem.  My bet is you are a bitch to most folks, they just lack the balls to tell you.


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



I've told you that I am not a democrat.  Repeatedly.  You're simply an idiot.   Get back to me when you are ready for the issues or fuck off.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
> ...


It's hard to talk to someone that thinks voting for "democrats *OR* republicans" means democrat.  Maybe if you learned to read and listen you wouldn't be such a bitch to everyone.


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



And if you weren't such a dumbass then I wouldn't seem to be a bitch. You can prevent forest fires............


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## RKMBrown (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
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> 
> > Disir said:
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lol you calling me a dumb ass... ROFL


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> Our office has been trying to educate our patients, especially the elderly, about the difference between a deductible, copay, balance billing, etc.  The bottom line for our patients has been to purchase the cheapest plan.  *When they find out that nothing is covered until they have paid the first $2,500-$6,000 out of pocket, they are furious with the "doctor"!*  Young, healthy people are paying for everyone else.  And as far as people with pre-existing conditions being covered now - they are but Obama did not put a cap on what the insurance companies could charge for premiums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The only people who benefit from the "pre-existing condition" clause are those on medicaid.  This only encourages people on medicaid not to seek employment.
> 
> And the amount of fraud that is going on is outrageous.  We have had patients that are "doctor hopping" and   getting pain medications from multiple physicians.  They in turn, sell the prescription medications for money.  That's right folks, they are taking meds and selling them for their own profit so you are getting screwed again because there are no programs that actually enforce monitoring of drugs.  If you are caught once doing this, you should not be able to participate in Obamacare.  Our office reported several patients to both Medicare and Medicaid and we were told that there was nothing they could do about it.


_*
When they find out that nothing is covered until they have paid the first $2,500-$6,000 out of pocket, they are furious with the "doctor"*_

*I* was aware of this when I got into the bronze plan.  I understood that these plans pay virtually nothing for regular visits.  The insurance is basically only good if you need surgery, and/or for catastrophic coverage in case you come down with something will crush you.  For Doctor's visits it pays nothing until the initial thresh hold is paid, and that is per person in the family.

That thresh hold is $2500 before it pays anything.  That threshold was met for my wife's surgery and other doctors visits.  At that point it pays 60/40.

For me and my daughter it pays nothing.  I never go to the doctor anyway.  Virtually never.  My daughter goes from time to time, but not a lot.   Our Doctor has rates for people with and without insurance.  He cuts the visit charge on those without insurance.  Before, my insurance paid out for that extra but not anymore.  I pay more for the visit because my New Insurance pays NOTHING.

TO BE CONTINUED.................


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> Our office has been trying to educate our patients, especially the elderly, about the difference between a deductible, copay, balance billing, etc.  The bottom line for our patients has been to purchase the cheapest plan.  When they find out that nothing is covered until they have paid the first $2,500-$6,000 out of pocket, they are furious with the "doctor"!  Young, healthy people are paying for everyone else.  And as far as people with pre-existing conditions being covered now - they are but Obama did not put a cap on what the insurance companies could charge for premiums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The only people who benefit from the "pre-existing condition" clause are those on medicaid.  This only encourages people on medicaid not to seek employment.
> 
> And the amount of fraud that is going on is outrageous.  We have had patients that are "doctor hopping" and   getting pain medications from multiple physicians.  They in turn, sell the prescription medications for money.  That's right folks, they are taking meds and selling them for their own profit so you are getting screwed again because there are no programs that actually enforce monitoring of drugs.  If you are caught once doing this, you should not be able to participate in Obamacare.  Our office reported several patients to both Medicare and Medicaid and we were told that there was nothing they could do about it.



CONTINUED.....................

This summer my wife and daughter caught a sinus infection.  Both went to the doctor.  Both got an xray, blood test, a antibiotic shot, and a visit.  They paid $90 a piece before being seen as it is the policy.  $180 total to be seen with insurance.   2 weeks later my wife went for a recheck and paid $90 before being seen, got another xray, blood test, and booster shot............Now my total was at $270.........

Now the fun begins...............With the bills and Blue Cross................The Doctor's office billed in my name as it was on the card.............as they don't issue the cards in each individual's name..............Wife talked to billing and they argued...............As I was at work and not at the Doctors office...  Never went........screws up the deducts................The office stated that since the card was in my name that is who has to be charged..................Called Blue Cross...........they called the Doc's office to straighten it out.............

So bills in my wife's name, and daughters name where kicked out.  Yet my 2 bills where never taken away......................So here we are getting mad at the Doc's office as my wife's deduct amounts have been met...................

So, before going to argue again...........I took out all 5 bills printed out from Blue Cross............The initial bills.............The total charged for the 3 total visits was $1500.............._*.BLUE CROSS CUT THE TOTAL TO $680.  *_  Yep, they cut the offices charges by $820.............THAT IS WITH 5 BILLS I had already paid the Doc $270..........My new bill from the Doc's was $225........Has my 2 incorrect bills been removed.........the Doc would have gotten less than $400.....................RIDICULOUS.................

So, realizing the Doc was getting screwed by Blue Cross we paid the $225......................

So, we paid $495 of the bill.
Blue Cross paid $185 of the bill.

and the Doctor only got $680...............

Being in billing what went wrong here.............I got tired of dealing with it........I didn't want to tick off the Doc because we like him and have been going there for a while............How does Blue Cross cut the overall bill by $820............................

This is what happened and I still can't figure it out.............could you please explain what should have happened here?


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## RKMBrown (Nov 16, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Debbie K. said:
> 
> 
> > Our office has been trying to educate our patients, especially the elderly, about the difference between a deductible, copay, balance billing, etc.  The bottom line for our patients has been to purchase the cheapest plan.  When they find out that nothing is covered until they have paid the first $2,500-$6,000 out of pocket, they are furious with the "doctor"!  Young, healthy people are paying for everyone else.  And as far as people with pre-existing conditions being covered now - they are but Obama did not put a cap on what the insurance companies could charge for premiums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The only people who benefit from the "pre-existing condition" clause are those on medicaid.  This only encourages people on medicaid not to seek employment.
> ...


It's called negotiated billing.


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
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> 
> > RKMBrown said:
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And by your answers to facts, you show you are amongst the "stupid Americans" that Gruber is referring to.  I know what I'm talking about and according to your answers, you have not mentioned one correct fact about Obamacare,  You are just bating people with name calling, etc.  Grow up and educate yourself and I'll respond to when you have something of substance to say!


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Debbie K. said:
> 
> 
> > Our office has been trying to educate our patients, especially the elderly, about the difference between a deductible, copay, balance billing, etc.  The bottom line for our patients has been to purchase the cheapest plan.  When they find out that nothing is covered until they have paid the first $2,500-$6,000 out of pocket, they are furious with the "doctor"!  Young, healthy people are paying for everyone else.  And as far as people with pre-existing conditions being covered now - they are but Obama did not put a cap on what the insurance companies could charge for premiums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  The only people who benefit from the "pre-existing condition" clause are those on medicaid.  This only encourages people on medicaid not to seek employment.
> ...


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> RKMBrown said:
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> > Disir said:
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You don't have any facts.  You drool on like a petulant child. You whine.


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

Many offices are not set up with a machine to run your insurance cards through.  Many smaller offices are refusing to add the machines as doctors are beginning to opt out of participating.  Your doctor's office should have straightened this out for you.  You should receive an Explanation of Benefits in the mail for each visit.  The Benefit statement "should" indicate the charged amount, the contracted amount and the patient responsibility.  Each doctor has a contracted amount.  So, if your doctor's charge is $100 for a visit, it doesn't mean they get $100.  Their contract with the company only allows them to get paid a percentage.  You will also see a "non allowed" amount on the statement.  This is the amount that the doctor cannot charge you.
Example:
$100.00 bill
- 40,00  non allowed (the doctor cannot collect this)
 -20.00 doctor's payment
This leaves $40.00 which should read deductible or patient responsibility

If your bill does not reflect this, call the insurance company to straighten it out.
If you bill does reflect this, then it is your doctor's office mistake.
Many doctor's offices hire people who do not have a lot of experience.  Some hospitals are actually hiring overseas companies to handle the billing.  Many inexperienced billers forget to take off the "non allowed" amount.  You cannot be charged this.  It is up to the doctor's office to keep track of your deductible and they get the same Explanation of Benefits that you get in the mail.  I send my patients a copy of their Explanation of Benefits along with their bill so they can see where I am getting a balanced owed. If your insurance company is messing up, call them immediately to straighten it out or the mistake will carry over.
Someone is making a lot of money off of these deductibles and it is not the doctor.  Please make sure the billers are taking off your non allowed.


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> Debbie K. said:
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> > RKMBrown said:
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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

They call your insurance in. Oh jeezus.


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## Debbie K. (Nov 16, 2014)

Obviously, you don't work or pay taxes!  Ignorance!  Ignorance!  Ignorance!  They wrote the bill for people like you!


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> Obviously, you don't work or pay taxes!  Ignorance!  Ignorance!  Ignorance!  They wrote the bill for people like you!



You lie. You think they run your insurance card through a machine. It isn't a grocery store debit/bank card machine.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> Debbie K. said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously, you don't work or pay taxes!  Ignorance!  Ignorance!  Ignorance!  They wrote the bill for people like you!
> ...


Your wrong............They have to put the card into the system.  Enter the charge codes to get your final price and codex............I've seen them do this with my own eyes................As I filled the prescription for my wife at the hospital.

They enter the data/charge into the computer under your account information/policy number.......and it gives them the final price to be paid by the patient.

It has gone electronic via the computer.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> Many offices are not set up with a machine to run your insurance cards through.  Many smaller offices are refusing to add the machines as doctors are beginning to opt out of participating.  Your doctor's office should have straightened this out for you.  You should receive an Explanation of Benefits in the mail for each visit.  The Benefit statement "should" indicate the charged amount, the contracted amount and the patient responsibility.  Each doctor has a contracted amount.  So, if your doctor's charge is $100 for a visit, it doesn't mean they get $100.  Their contract with the company only allows them to get paid a percentage.  You will also see a "non allowed" amount on the statement.  This is the amount that the doctor cannot charge you.
> Example:
> $100.00 bill
> - 40,00  non allowed (the doctor cannot collect this)
> ...


My bills showed the non payable's deducted from the overall bill which I printed out from the Blue Cross Site............The billing lady at the Doc's office, seemed confused over the name on the card..........and actually said that she has to charge it to the card holder..........So, initially All was charged to my name........Blue Cross called them and 3 more bills were charged to the proper names.........yet the other bills never went away.  There are still 2 bills posted to Blue Cross in my name.

Again, I never went to the Doc.  I would imagine that the billing at the Doc's was having trouble navigating the system.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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> 
> > Debbie K. said:
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I understood that already.  I understand that they get lower prices.............In both cases the price was drastically lower.

The question is this...............How do they negotiate this bill that is set by a local Doctor........I honestly doubt they negotiated anything.

Which gets me to the real intent...........on why should the insurance companies set the fair market price of a private office?


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> Debbie K. said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
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Actually her facts are SPOT ON with what I've seen............Which is why I posted on this thread.........I would imagine since she's in the business that she has already forgotten more than you ever have known.  What makes you more qualified than her on this issue?  

As I've already said her posts are right down the line with what I experienced.

And your only facts posted, even though this is an opinionated site, is that you want Universal Health Care and nothing else.........

You haven't commented on the dark side of Obamacare, and haven't disputed anything.

My new insurance is crap compared to what I had even though I paid less overall..........But when I go to the Doctors office IT'S ON ME.........As its got HIGH DEDUCTS that must be met before 1 cent paid.  

THIS IS A FACT............It is in the Law, and is exactly what she was saying.


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

Dude, you scan a card into the system once. It uploads it to a computer program. Or you input that data manually.  Hence the reason that when you go to a doctors office they ask to see your card once a year.  They already have that on file.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> Dude, you scan a card into the system once. It uploads it to a computer program. Or you input that data manually.  Hence the reason that when you go to a doctors office they ask to see your card once a year.  They already have that on file.



I don't go to the doctor.  Haven't in years.  My wife goes.........so she shows them here card I believe.  But at the pharmacy at the Hospital..........You give them the card to get it into the system.


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > Debbie K. said:
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What is this Eagle: _An illegal immigrant's hospital bill is written off as "charity". American citizens can lose their homes over high medical bills, illegal immigrants are paying for their homes outright. They can well afford to as they pay no taxes! Where is the outrage!!!!!!!!!!!_

Huh? What is that?

What is this Eagle: _Medical Assistance was not created to be a way of life!_

Huh? What is that?

I would like a show of hands of people who have one insurance card that is combined as a prescription card?  I would like a show of hands of the number of people who run their insurance cards like a debit card every time you go to a doctor's office.  She's full of shit.  Doctor's aren't not getting the machines because she is lying through her teeth.

Oh, you don't know about that?  You should. Your daughter was taken to the doctor's office remember all of that? 

The deductible is high. I acknowledged that in post number 45. The rest of your posts I have no reason to believe.  I think you are just stringing that along.  There is zero reason to believe that you are telling the truth about anything else.

The bitch of it? I'm not even happy with Obamacare. I told you that before. But, you got nothing. Had nothing before it. Have no damn reason to get off your ass to find another solution.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

Disir said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
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BS

I was at work when my daughter went to the Doc.  My Wife took her because she was going as well with a sinus infection.  They make sure to take the card...........as far as an atm............don't know because I didn't see that..........It's possible they have a machine and I'm going to google at little for it.

At the hospital pharmacy, they entered the data into the computer.  Typed it.  and then filled the prescription for my wife and I paid the bill.

About the illegal situation............For a long time they have gotten benefits by being in America.  Which means they go to the hospital needing assistance they get it..........just as anybody else does in this country.....long before Obama was on any stage at all.

To the truth........issue...........I simply don't care if you believe me or not.  I saw the OP and saw that she was in medical billing so I thought I'd engage.

The data I posted..........specify the site data and specifics and prove them a Lie.............I've seen you agree that the plans are high deducts............and I pointed out how are the poor gonna pay them when the bell tolls.............As the surgery with my wife wasn't gonna happen without $6,000 up front.....................

Is that a Lie................how would you even know............but if you know the law you know that's under the max per person deduct from Bronze and Silver.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 16, 2014)

One more thing................Businesses are paying more across the board as a direct result of Obamacare........

Is that a Lie.....................or a planned situation via the creation of this law.........I honestly believe it was to make rates higher so people would be forced into the exchanges, and even these would increase in price until they will offer the FINAL PHASE which is SINGLE PAYER.


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## Vigilante (Nov 16, 2014)

We KNOW just how popular Obumacare is...


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
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Here..............then maybe...........this......will............help..............you.........out.

I....have the same...........issues.........with the insurance..........that you have.......

Again.............you have offered no fucking alternative.  None. 


In order to acquire a charity from a hospital you have to qualify for it. You don't choose. They choose.  You have to hunt down the information, and find a form and apply.  I asked  these questions when I was trying to figure out how the hell the hospitals get around paying property taxes. 

Still doesn't address hospital mergers or the insurance companies themselves. 

So..........sorry about your little situation...............but, you............don't have............any viable solutions.


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## Disir (Nov 16, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> One more thing................Businesses are paying more across the board as a direct result of Obamacare........
> 
> Is that a Lie.....................or a planned situation via the creation of this law.........I honestly believe it was to make rates higher so people would be forced into the exchanges, and even these would increase in price until they will offer the FINAL PHASE which is SINGLE PAYER.



Actually, there was and still is a large group of people that were paying high deductibles prior to Obamacare.  The businesses had already shifted that to the employees.  

Make no mistake.  Your final phase will never be demanded by the democrats. It will come from the people themselves.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 17, 2014)

Disir said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
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> > Disir said:
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Let............me..........make..........this .............clear...............I...........had..............Insurance.........before.........obamacare............but..........got...........priced.......out.............of.............it...............by.............obamacare...............that.............option............was......................gone..............because.............the...........rate.............went............through............the...........roof...............

Little situation I have makes your position suck............as you defend something that damaged a lot of people...............and some of the solutions offered by the GOP would have lowered my insurance at work with tax credits TO ALL GROUPS............and increasing funding for high risk pools.............It would have allowed or smaller company to POOL with other companies giving us bargaining power for lower rates...........

That would have lowered my insurance via tax credits..........and allowed us to negotiate better rates................This was on the table during the debate.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 17, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
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But that's what people like Dis want... burn the country to the ground they don't give a shit as long as they get their marxism.  No tax bill is too small for everyone else to fund their entitlements just as long as they get it free... screw everyone else.


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## Disir (Nov 18, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
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My position has not changed from the beginning.  So, tell me.............what position do I have?


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## Disir (Nov 18, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
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> > Disir said:
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As long as they get their Marxism..........you really aren't that bright.


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## gipper (Nov 18, 2014)

Amazing that ANY American believes our totally corrupt fed gov could effectively reform HC.

One has to be really stupid to believe such foolishness.


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## Disir (Nov 18, 2014)

gipper said:


> Amazing that ANY American believes our totally corrupt fed gov could effectively reform HC.
> 
> One has to be really stupid to believe such foolishness.



One has to be really stupid to believe that it was working out prior to Obamacare.


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## gipper (Nov 18, 2014)

Disir said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing that ANY American believes our totally corrupt fed gov could effectively reform HC.
> ...



It was not working before, we can agree on that.

Now it is much worse, but you and your kind are fine with it, because your guy did the damage.

Now that is really stupid.


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## Disir (Nov 18, 2014)

gipper said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
> ...



No, what is stupid is that I have to reiterate on a continuous basis is that I am not a democrat. 

Secondly, what you want me to do is to pat you guys on the back and have a knipshit to prove this for you or against you shit. We can all sit and kick rocks together.  Blow me, I'll grow one for you and your kind.

The states were able to create their own plan.  So, do we look at what those fine upstanding folks have done?  Do we discuss better options? Do we discuss what what leads to the increase in prices?  Do we discuss ..............why the hell insurance companies are allowed at all? 

Noooooooooooooo.

You have a passive-aggressive freak that insists that it isn't really about any of the above but about ideology.  You have an OP that screwed it's own credibility by carrying a lie so far it hung itself.  You have a chap that cannot manage to take a stance if you do not fall into his definition of what your stance ought to be. So, he will redefine it for you. Whatever it takes for him to get the meme out.  Spare me the bullshit.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 18, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
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> > eagle1462010 said:
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Oh I'm plenty bright.  Brighter than 99.999%

Not my fault you don't understand what ACA is about.

Marxism - the political, economic, and social principles and policies advocated by Marx; _especially_*:* *a theory and practice of socialism *including the labor theory of value, dialectical materialism, *the class struggle*, and dictatorship of the proletariat *until the establishment of a classless society*.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 18, 2014)

Disir said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing that ANY American believes our totally corrupt fed gov could effectively reform HC.
> ...


Other than government run medicaid, and government run medicare, and government run veterans health care, and government mismanagement of insurance companies, and government mandates on hospitals to provide free care to illegals and people who don't want to pay and charge paying customers extra to cover those costs... what was wrong with our HC?


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## emilynghiem (Nov 18, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
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> > gipper said:
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I think it was set up to fail by Republicans who never wanted govt involved in socialized health care.
So the solution is to do more of it.
And then keep blaming in on Republicans for making it fail.


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## Disir (Nov 18, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
> 
> 
> > gipper said:
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*Feds Reach Largest Government Fraud Settlement*
W A S H I N G T O N, Dec. 14
Michael J. Sniffen


The Healthcare Company-HCA, the nation’s largest for-profit hospital chain, agreed today to plead guilty to defrauding government health-care programs and will pay more than $840 million in criminal fines, civil penalties and damages.

The agreement reached after a seven-year federal investigation triggered by private whistleblowers is the largest government fraud settlement ever negotiated by the Justice Department.

The company agreed to cooperate with a continuing investigation that Attorney General Janet Reno said could still produce criminal charges against individuals in what Deputy Assistant FBI Director Thomas Kubic called “one of the FBI’s highest priority white-collar crime investigations.”

The agreement did not settle civil allegations that HCA unlawfully charged the government for the costs of running its hospitals and that it paid kickbacks to doctors so they would refer Medicare and Medicaid patients to its facilities.

The two HCA units that pleaded guilty — Columbia Homecare Group Inc. and Columbia Management Companies Inc. — agreed to pay more than $95 million in criminal fines and were barred from further participation in federal health-care programs.

Separately, HCA agreed to pay $745 million in civil penalties for its alleged false billing practices — a figure negotiated last spring but not finalized until the criminal settlement was announced today.

Reno: Fraud Hurts

“Health care fraud impacts every American citizen,” Reno told a news conference. “If you overbill the U.S. taxpayer, then we are going to make you pay it back and then some.”

She said it was the largest health-care fraud investigation in history, involving 30 U.S. attorney’s offices, 22 FBI field offices, inspectors general from the Health and Human Service Department and the Office of Personnel Management, Defense Department investigators and state fraud units.

HCA co-founder and chief executive Thomas Frist Jr., the brother of U.S. Sen. Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said from the company’s Nashville headquarters: “Today’s action represents one of the last steps needed to put the Columbia investigation behind us and allows us to move forward, maintaining our focus on providing quality patient care.”

Frist ousted Richard L. Scott as chief executive in July 1997 and began a restructuring of the company. HCA got out of the home health-care business and sold or consolidated more than 100 hospitals. The chain currently has about 200 hospitals.
Feds Reach Largest Government Fraud Settlement - ABC News

The above is for-profit from 2001

89 Of U.s. Hospitals Found Double-billing For Inpatient Care The Justice Department Has Demanded Refunds To Medicare And Patients. At Issue Are Tests Given During The 72 Hours Before Admission. - Philly.com

CLINIC STING NETS 18 Russian mob in 3M insurance scam feds say - NY Daily News

Hospice Patients Alliance - hospice fraud hospice scams and how to avoid them

This is just the level of fraud before.  Note that when healthcare started moving towards for profit that the investors came before patients. Still do.  But, those for profit hospitals and medical care could police their own, amiright? Profit over people.  Choosing your own doctor? Lost that with the health care reform in the 90s. It's called managed care.  HPOs, PPOs, POS.  

Lobbied for by...........ding ding ding.......the insurance companies.  


So, 95% of people had insurance through the workforce in 1978 and that declined to 14% by 1998.  Lower income people couldn't get access to it.  People were deliberately cut off at 35 hours so that they couldn't acquire the crap ass insurance that was carried.  Two jobs and sometimes three jobs were necessary to make ends meet. This of course put them over the line to qualify for aid or even the sliding scale fee.  So, it cost $80 to walk into the door of a clinic.  Could not get testing or pay for a prescription. 

Side note: What is really fun is listening to people recognize the ability to negotiate with larger groups of people and then trash unions.  Hi-larious. Fun stuff. 

And watch out for what's next.  Kids not able to get that testing? Watch them shut down satellite offices for clinics in the health departments and send the nurses out to the school.  They won't bat an eye. You won't either. 

Would you like to learn about medicaid divorces?


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## RKMBrown (Nov 18, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Disir said:
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So you agree with me, the problem with health care before ACA was government miss-management of our health care.  And ACA merely brings us more government miss-management.


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## Disir (Nov 18, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
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Except it wasn't government mismanagement. In fact, it was the government that had to go and nail the corporate whores when they refused to regulate themselves.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 18, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
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> > Disir said:
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Please inform us all when these corporate whores operated free of government regulation.  I can't wait to hear this one.


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## Disir (Nov 18, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
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Try again.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 18, 2014)

Disir said:


> RKMBrown said:
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Try what again.


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## Disir (Nov 18, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Disir said:
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Medical care is _profit driven_.


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## emilynghiem (Nov 18, 2014)

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How is this news?

Being a Democrat, I face the criticisms all the time:
If you KNOW the health care system is corrupt, the public school system,
the public housing system, WHY KEEP GIVING MORE MONEY AND MORE CONTROL to them
when there isn't adequate CHECK on "pseudo-govt" institutions
that mix public with private and CREATE these disasters. like duh!

Please see my previous post.
Republicans blame Democrats for setting up a failed system so they won't support that,
while Democrats blame Republicans for making it fail by NOT supporting it.

If you don't agree to support it, then don't use govt for that.
And then whatever you do set up, will have support of everyone to work!
Is that so foreign?
The idea that if everyone is behind something, then they'l help make it work,
but if they don't believe in something you can't force it on them.

Why not stick to what all people agree will work and define/limit
government to reflect the WILL or CONSENT of the PEOPLE.

I guess that just makes too much sense, and can't be twisted around and sold for votes....


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## RKMBrown (Nov 18, 2014)

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Point?  Do think doctors, nurses, and scientists, working in the medical field should work for free?


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## Disir (Nov 18, 2014)

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Cut the shit. You're not a democrat.  You're a whatever is useful at the moment.


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That misses the mark. In fact, it distorts the picture.

The question is........do you think health care should be decided by the investors?

We have always had a mixed market economy.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 18, 2014)

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Are you actually asking me if it should be legal to have private investments in health care improvements and research? 

Government's job is to break up monopolies on things like health care, not BECOME the monopoly.


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## Disir (Nov 18, 2014)

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I'm asking you, do you think health care should be decided by the investors?


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## RKMBrown (Nov 18, 2014)

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Your strawman is nonsensical.   It is equivalent to asking if picking one's nose should be decided by investors.


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## emilynghiem (Nov 18, 2014)

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If you're asking me
I think individuals should decide their own health care
and if they go through a collective system they should choose that also, similar to choosing a church, religion or belief.

health care rights is a belief
free market choice is a belief

So if people BELIEVE in going through business or investors that's THEIR choice

that shouldn't affect people who want to go through nonprofits, or through medical school programs.

Do you see where we are going wrong?

It's like taking one approach, like Christianity or Catholics vs. Protestants,
and trying to mandate that for everyone in the country.

We wouldn't dare mandate a global policy if it was for religious beliefs.

So why don't we recognize and separate political beliefs just as equally?

We know that liberal Democrats are .like a separate denomination from conservative Republican.
We wouldn't force Baptists and Catholics to fund each other's programs or be MANDATED to follow
them or be FINED.

Why are we doing this to ourselves over health care?

If we recognize the choice of abortion and reproductive freedom should be free
of "other people's religious or political beliefs"
why aren't we respecting the choice of health care?

Why are we INSISTING on mandating it all one way

If we don't want INVESTORS deciding for us
why would we want POLITICIANS and LOBBIES deciding for us.

Do you see everyone's complaining about the same intrusion
but f rom different angles and groups they dont trust?

So why not LET people choose their affiliations and how to manage their helath care.

I propose to set it up and separate by PARTY so you can have collective bargaining
and organizational power, but without imposing on people's beliefs if you stay within your own affiliation.

You don't have to fight these battles if you stay within your own group.
So why not separate and delegate out, and quit trying to make it one way.

We don't have a national religion mandated by govt, because we trust people
to exercise their own faith. Why can't we do the same with health care, and respect religious freedom with
liberty, free market and health care choices since these are so individualized and cross into areas of
people beliefs anyway. that's why everyone keeps fighting, because govt is not supposed to go there!


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## emilynghiem (Nov 18, 2014)

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Google translation: NO


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 18, 2014)

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And your position is Universal Care...............Which is a strongly left leaning position.  

My position is that both sides of the equation are right and wrong and that the final solution is somewhere in the middle...........Obamacare was passed through the tyranny of a temporary super majority.  While it was being passed the people of this country were not for it, and our Reps are supposed to support the WILL OF THE PEOPLE........

Of course neither side does anymore.........They only really care about who lines their pockets.  This law was written by the insurance companies for the insurance companies................which is why they didn't bitch so much during this..................You have said the same......and Obamacare is causing a lot of damned problems that shouldn't have happened..............The left has denied these problems and say,"WELL IT SUCKED BEFORE TOO.........."  

DISIR.......has basically said the same.............IT SUCKED BEFORE AND SUCKS NOW.....DEAL WITH IT..........

If all our Congress and Gov't is coming up with for solutions is IT SUCKS then we need to fire ALL OF THEM..........but that isn't happening is it?

MY STANCE.............REPEAL REPLACE OBAMACARE..............With a TRUE COMPROMISE BILL...........

If not, then all this talk will lead to nothing more than destructive policies DESIGNED TO DESTROY SO THE WET DREAM OF UNIVERSAL CARE WILL BE THE ONLY SOLUTION.

In a NUT SHELL..............the same ASSHOLES who burned down the house are here to fix it and save us all................with all the answers................and dumb asses will believe them..............


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 18, 2014)

Now to the BS comment DISIR stated about Unions............I live in a right to work state.............and allowing NON UNION companies to pool together is the same DAMNED BENEFIT OF UNIONS...............but that in NO WAY means these companies would GO UNION to try and get better deals for their employees............It would give the same bargaining power as Unions.........without being a Union..........

Unions were good in the early years..............then THEIR GREED pushed the cost of labor through the roof forcing the companies to restructure, OR MOVE.............The Unions inflated their wages and benefits so high they cost themselves their jobs...................

DETROIT is the SHINING EXAMPLE OF A CITY BEING RUN BY THE ASS PARTY..............1.4 million have left the destruction leaving a 800,000 still there.................but hey..............there is a 2 for 1 sale on houses there..................ENJOY the UTOPIA OF LIBERAL LAND.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 18, 2014)

The high risk pools to take the high dollar medical treatment out of the equation was a good idea and still is a good idea...............It is basically the same as Hurricane Insurance high risk pools................Higher deducts, but at least your covered for most without financially destroying yourselves.

Obamacare in at least the BRONZE and SILVER is basically creating HIGH RISK POOLS FOR ALL..............

Which in turn screwed those who already had coverage.....................In this way trying to PRICE OUT those that had insurance even though the premiums are high...............

TORT REFORM.................NADDA..................Dems can't stand it, but Malpractice Insurance is a major cost to hospitals and Doctors............making the prices higher..........tort reform doesn't mean you can't sue when they screw up..........It limits the overall awards past what you would get on normal damages to prevent massive awards that also drives up costs................Written properly, it can limit Lawyers from taking all the money from the people that got hosed in malpractice.....................So the people get most of the money instead of ambulance chasing lawyers...............

There were and are options on the table that could be adjusted to THE MIDDLE so both sides will get some of what they want and not the other side................Not IT'S MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY which is how Obamacare got passed.........................So it will be attacked until it goes away, and or destroys the system all together.


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## Disir (Nov 19, 2014)

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Jeezuz H. Christ. I'm not going to take your answer and beat you with it.


emilynghiem said:


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eagle1462010 said:


> Now to the BS comment DISIR stated about Unions............I live in a right to work state.............and allowing NON UNION companies to pool together is the same DAMNED BENEFIT OF UNIONS...............but that in NO WAY means these companies would GO UNION to try and get better deals for their employees............It would give the same bargaining power as Unions.........without being a Union..........
> 
> Unions were good in the early years..............then THEIR GREED pushed the cost of labor through the roof forcing the companies to restructure, OR MOVE.............The Unions inflated their wages and benefits so high they cost themselves their jobs...................
> 
> DETROIT is the SHINING EXAMPLE OF A CITY BEING RUN BY THE ASS PARTY..............1.4 million have left the destruction leaving a 800,000 still there.................but hey..............there is a 2 for 1 sale on houses there..................ENJOY the UTOPIA OF LIBERAL LAND.



30 years of stagnant wages says that no, unions did not push the cost of labor through the roof.   Further, you won't be able to compete with the$2.00 an hour jobs  moving a company overseas or into Mexico.

  That's propaganda. You know it. I know. Everyone else knows it.


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## Disir (Nov 19, 2014)

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My stance is not deal with it. I have repeatedly asked you for what else you have. Your stance is revert back to the old system because it didn't personally effect you then. You didn't have to pay attention to it. 

Universal health care is the only solution.  True Compromise is a nifty slogan but does not adequately explain what is necessary. 

_If all our Congress and Gov't is coming up with for solutions is IT SUCKS then we need to fire ALL OF THEM..........but that isn't happening is it?_

The moment that you turn your back on these folks and say........you come up with a plan, I dunno, come up with one, then not a damn thing gets solved. 

See this:
Federal Trade Commission v. Phoebe Putney Health System Inc. 11-1160 LII Supreme Court Bulletin LII Legal Information Institute

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/justices-back-ftc-on-blocking-hospital-mergers.html?_r=0

In Phoebe Putney Hospital Merger Case FTC Rejects Proposed Consent Agreement Parties to Return to Litigation Federal Trade Commission

That boils down to state law.  The government does what you tell it to or doesn't as the case may be. 

So, another question that I have asked in the thread is: what were the other plans put in action as a response from those states that wanted to choose their own path?


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## Disir (Nov 19, 2014)

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Emily.  I love you. I do try.  But, you don't really say much. 

The Republicans are not victims.  They are not some little persecuted group.


  How many states refused to expand Medicaid?  I got five that says that by the time we end this conversation the responsibility meme comes out along with the free market meme.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 19, 2014)

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Not, no.  The question was a riddle, a campaign slogan.  It made no sense. It was nonsensical. 

One could try to assume what she meant by it, but she has "repeatedly" shown that if you assume what she means she'll just swing the opposite direction and deflect.  IOW it appears she's just trolling.   Or likes to speak in riddles.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 19, 2014)

The solution is to go back to the way HC was handled way back when, and force government to do their job in breaking up the monopolies and oligopolies.  Then we'll have a free market again and the price of health care will fall to 1/10th what it is today.


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## Vigilante (Nov 19, 2014)




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## jon_berzerk (Nov 19, 2014)

Debbie K. said:


> I work in medical billing so I see the end result of Obamacare.  People did not read the fine print.  Deductibles are running anywhere from $2,500 to $6,000.  Because the deductibles are so high, patients are being made to pay for their MRIs, CTs and bloodwork up front so patients aren't getting their ordered tests and aren't returning for followup visits when they need them.  Federal employees have the best healthcare available through Federal Blueshield.  No deductibles!  Low or no copays!  Everyone in DC who composed Obamacare does not have to participate in it!  I could not believe it when it passed!  Doctors and diagnostic facilities have no choice but to collect all of their money up front because the patients are not going to pay their bills!  It is forcing many doctorst to  retire early.  My healtcare plan does not have any coverage for preventative care!  No annual GYN visit.  No checkup, no preventative bloodwork screening!  They will give me coverage for a stroke, heart attack or cancer treatments once they develop.  I just can't check to see if I have a problem developing! Wake up America!  I agree for their needs to be change but not this.  EVERYONE SHOULD BE MADE TO PARTICIPATE IN OBAMACARE, INCLUDING OBAMA!  They are our REPRESENTATIVES and should not be treated any differently than the general population.  Gruber knew exactly what he was doing and should be made to participate in it as well.  If an illegal alien goes into a hospital, their bill is written off as "charity".  A legal, tax paying citizen of the U.S. will be made to pay their deductible and balance on their hospital bill or be sent to collections!   Prisoners get their healthcare for free! Many who are getting insurance for free have no intention of returning to work!  And remember America, your taxes are due on April 15th or the IRS is coming after you with penalties!  If you are illegal, you don't have to pay any taxes or penalties!




it is a mess

 then when they lure in folks 

they advertise that it is "free" 

what a load of bullshit 

someone has to pay for it 

*why cant liberals be honest  just once !!!!!!




*


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## Vigilante (Nov 19, 2014)




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## Disir (Nov 19, 2014)

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You make a shitty liar.


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## Disir (Nov 19, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> The solution is to go back to the way HC was handled way back when, and force government to do their job in breaking up the monopolies and oligopolies.  Then we'll have a free market again and the price of health care will fall to 1/10th what it is today.




When was that again?


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## RKMBrown (Nov 19, 2014)

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> ...


As far back as you democrats are willing to compromise on.  How about back to Clinton?


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## Disir (Nov 19, 2014)

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I'm not a democrat.  So, when was that again?


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## Vigilante (Nov 19, 2014)




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## RKMBrown (Nov 19, 2014)

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You're not allowed to claim you are conservative or even independent after stating that you want a socialist system for health care. But you can admit you are a communist if you like. What part of back to Clinton went over your head?


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## EdwardBaiamonte (Nov 19, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> *why cant liberals be honest  just once !!!!!!
> *



honesty: we're for more and more welfare entitlements of every kind in order to create a huge dependent voting constituency. In short, we don't care if we cripple people, we just want political power.


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## Disir (Nov 19, 2014)

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I am an independent.  
You're just an idiot. 

Missing the part were you repair the problems that were there before the health care reform.


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## RKMBrown (Nov 19, 2014)

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Your the fool claiming to be an independent while wanting socialist health care. How is that being independent?

As for repair... I thought we had that discussion already.  Break up the corporate and government monopolies.  This will bring about free market solutions.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 20, 2014)

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Her only solution is Universal Care, which is socialist period.

There have been other solutions presented..........gasp by the GOP.........Including the high risk pools that didn't include some of the dumb ass provisions of Obamacare which has not done what it stated it would do.  Bring down medical costs.  Costs continue to rise even in the exchanges............and dramatically in all other areas...........Which means it was only to find a way to pay for it all and regulate that everyone get everything under the sun in their plans..........It produced high deduct plans that protected against high cost medical procedures and pretty much did away with coverage for normal visits..........as it is on the consumer to pay for service under the lower plans anyway................

The high risk pools under the GOP plan did this via direct subsidies of 10 Billion a year and tax credits to lower the costs for those with pre-existing conditions..............the poor will still have to pay for most of their visits, and have to come up with thousands of dollars for any surgery.  These are the least able to afford this, and will still be in a financial situation.

Of course they wanted expansion of Medicare in all the states which equates to FREE medical coverage even though the federal gov't and state gov't are already having difficulty paying the bills for this already.

This was not the correct solution, and had the dems REALLY NEGOTIATED THIS LAW it is possible a law could have been passed with MAJOR BENDING from both sides.............The Dems didn't do this........It was a my way or the highway bill under a temporary majority.............Leaving continued battles on the subject until it is repealed and or replaced.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 20, 2014)

Here s your demonstration project Mr. President -- it s called Mississippi WashingtonExaminer.com

That is the story that Mississippi's Republican, governor, Haley Barbour, offered on Friday, speaking at the Heritage Foundation. He also made an observation about President Obama's decision to offer only token "demonstration projects" on lawsuit abuse rather than address it meaningfully in his health care reform proposal.

"It's mysterious to me that the administration and the leadership of Congress talk about health care reform and the goal of reducing costs, and yet refuse to put tort reform into the legislation," he said. "I believe $200, $250 billion a year in health care costs is caused by litigation. It may be more than that. But this is the lowest hanging fruit, this ain't rocket science. If they want a demonstration project, come down to Mississippi, and I'll show you a demonstration project." (Last month, Barbour wrote this op-ed for _The Examiner_ on insurance reform.)

Mississippi's reforms were truly sweeping. The new laws:


Changed rules of venue, to prevent abusive court-shopping.
Got rid of the rule of "joint and several liability" -- as Barbour put it, in order to protect the defendant who is only "2 percent negligent" but who has the "deep pockets" that trial lawyers look for when deciding whom to sue.
Protect innocent landowners and sellers of products. Under the reforms, "if a pharmacist is selling a drug that the FDA has said is appropriate for the purpose it says it's used for, unless the pharmacist knows it has been tampered with, then that pharmacist is immune," said Barbour.
Put caps on punitive damages, with a sliding scale based on the size of the defendant corporation.
Put caps on non-economic damages, particularly to deal with medical malpractice liability.
Tort reform made Mississippi liveable for small business and for doctors and hospitals, Barbour said, but it wasn't easy to pass. He discussed the conditions needed to pass it in a state -- chief among which was heavy and involved support from the governor.


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## eagle1462010 (Nov 20, 2014)

Tort reform has shown success to lower premiums.  Malpractice insurance cost doctors and hospitals a lot of money every year which leads to higher premiums and higher medical costs.  It should have been in the law.................

It doesn't mean you can't sue.........it means the ridiculous settlements need to end as does the lawyer taking everything after it's over needs to end.  It has a proven track record.

but but but...........it didn't get included did it.......................ways to LOWER THE COST..........which was supposed to be the ultimate goal.

Under that ultimate goal of lower costs...............the ACA has FAILED.


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## Brrainstormerr (Dec 11, 2014)

What Obamacare needs is robust private exchange solutions. I guess there are 5 key elements that separate successful exchange solutions from the ones that failed. This blog drives these points home:
*5 Key Elements of a Successful Private Exchange Solution*


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