# Assholes making trouble in Oregon



## Old Rocks

Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns

Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.

"We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.

Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.

Tensions persist.

A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.

Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"

Others reply: "You are the militia."

One episode in particular has upset the community.

The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.  

Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.

She had, they said, threatened them.

*I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people. 

If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*


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## saveliberty

Good to see the media is giving them all the attention they want...


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## Missourian

I read the article about the fires and the sentencing...apparently,  environmentalists want the Hammond land,  and the government is doing all they can to get it.


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## PredFan

This kind of thing happens when you oppress people too much.


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## Old Rocks

The Hammond's played with fire and got burned. Setting fires when you cannot control them is real serious business in that area. They have had some major fires in the past decade, some that destroyed up to 1/3 of some of the ranchers cattle. That represents many years of lost income for a group of people that work extremely hard for the little income they make.


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## SwimExpert

They can be called nothing short.

_The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._

_Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._


_Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._

Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters


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## Katzndogz

To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.


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## SwimExpert

Tipsycatlover said:


> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.



So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?  

I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?


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## Katzndogz

SwimExpert said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
Click to expand...

In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.


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## Dot Com

Tipsycatlover said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
Click to expand...

I thought you were a dog groomer? What exactly makes you an expert on this???

As to the OP, the occupiers need to be made an example of


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## SwimExpert

Tipsycatlover said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
Click to expand...


So, if armed men stormed Congress and the White House and forced them all to create a law that criminalizes Christianity, that wouldn't be terrorism as long as nobody actually got hurt?   

You're making excuses for terrorists.  You're a disgusting piece of filth.


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## Bruce_T_Laney

You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...

Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.


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## SwimExpert

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.



Well, if you want to be nit-picky, I suppose we could say that they're hovering in a grace period and that "official terrorist activities" won't _technically_ begin until people arrive to work tomorrow and find their building under armed occupation.

C'mon, is that really the fine toothed comb you want to wield?


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## Bruce_T_Laney

SwimExpert said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you want to be nit-picky, I suppose we could say that they're hovering in a grace period and that "official terrorist activities" won't _technically_ begin until people arrive to work tomorrow and find their building under armed occupation.
> 
> C'mon, is that really the fine toothed comb you want to wield?
Click to expand...


Hey, I wrote they're Domestic Retards and that should count for something. Give them a chance first to show if they have the balls to become Domestic Terrorists, or will they fold like the wimps I believe they are...


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## SwimExpert

Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.

_Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_

This satisfies that criteria fully.


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## Dot Com

He's prolly doing it so he can set-up a rw welfare acct (crowdfunding) because Rightards stopped sending him $$$ a dew months after his last publicity fiasco


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## Katzndogz

Who was destroyed, assassinated or kidnapped?


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## Katzndogz

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.


Especially the list of the SPLC.


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## SwimExpert

Dot Com said:


> He's prolly doing it so he can set-up a rw welfare acct (crowdfunding) because Rightards stopped sending him $$$ a dew months after his last publicity fiasco



If by "he" you are referring to Pa Bundy, I don't believe he is in attendance.  This is being organized by a local militia, and though his three sons are involved I'd doubt that Pa Bundy is in any way leading anything here.  Though I'm sure he's cheerleading all the way.


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## SwimExpert

Aaaand Tipsy the terrorist is on ignore....


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## Staidhup

So when the Black Lives or Occupy gang seize public property for their little protest are they then considered domestic terrorists for occupying public property? Or is it your insatiable thirst for that kool-aid?


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## Katzndogz

Dot Com said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought you were a dog groomer? What exactly makes you an expert on this???
> 
> As to the OP, the occupiers need to be made an example of
Click to expand...

I'm not a dog groomer.

Occupiers need to be made an example of, starting with occupy wall street and blm occupying stores and malls.

You okay with that?  Start shooting.  Lay a few hundred out.  Now we can talk.


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## SwimExpert

Staidhup said:


> So when the Black Lives or Occupy gang seize public property for their little protest are they then considered domestic terrorists for occupying public property? Or is it your insatiable thirst for that kool-aid?



Care to show a link where I've ever justified such an action?


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## Dot Com

SwimExpert said:


> Aaaand Tipsy the terrorist is on ignore....


She is a complete rw wacko, yes.

As to the OP, they shouldn't do the crime if they cant do the time


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## Dot Com

Tipsycatlover said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought you were a dog groomer? What exactly makes you an expert on this???
> 
> As to the OP, the occupiers need to be made an example of
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not a dog groomer.
> 
> Occupiers need to be made an example of, starting with occupy wall street and blm occupying stores and malls.
> 
> You okay with that?  Start shooting.  Lay a few hundred out.  Now we can talk.
Click to expand...

you stated on the board that you are a dog groomer. Your posting style fits the profile as well,. You are certifiable.

As to the OP, occupying federal buildings is a crime.


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## SwimExpert

Dot Com said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aaaand Tipsy the terrorist is on ignore....
> 
> 
> 
> She is a complete rw wacko, yes.
> 
> As to the OP, they shouldn't do the crime if they cant do the time
Click to expand...


From all accounts, the Hammonds have no interest in resisting their sentence, other than through valid legal avenues.  It's sad that a perfectly valid cause is corrupted through the repugnant actions of fanatical supporters.


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## Dot Com

drama queens like the Hammonds and the Bundys should be prohibited from setting-up rw welfare (gofundme) accts. They waive that right when they knowingly break laws. F 'em


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## Katzndogz

Dot Com said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought you were a dog groomer? What exactly makes you an expert on this???
> 
> As to the OP, the occupiers need to be made an example of
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not a dog groomer.
> 
> Occupiers need to be made an example of, starting with occupy wall street and blm occupying stores and malls.
> 
> You okay with that?  Start shooting.  Lay a few hundred out.  Now we can talk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you stated on the board that you are a dog groomer. Your posting style fits the profile as well,. You are certifiable.
> 
> As to the OP, occupying federal buildings is a crime.
Click to expand...

I have been a dog groomer in the past.  But no, I'm not a dog groomer. 

Occupying anyplace is a crime.  Start punishing them all.


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## Dot Com

Tipsycatlover said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Dot Com said:
> 
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> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
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> 
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> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> 
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought you were a dog groomer? What exactly makes you an expert on this???
> 
> As to the OP, the occupiers need to be made an example of
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not a dog groomer.
> 
> Occupiers need to be made an example of, starting with occupy wall street and blm occupying stores and malls.
> 
> You okay with that?  Start shooting.  Lay a few hundred out.  Now we can talk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you stated on the board that you are a dog groomer. Your posting style fits the profile as well,. You are certifiable.
> 
> As to the OP, occupying federal buildings is a crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have been a dog groomer in the past.  But no, I'm not a dog groomer.
> 
> Occupying anyplace is a crime.  Start punishing them all.
Click to expand...

whatever you are, you have shown yourself to be a brazenly hateful person oftentimes based solely on partisan issues

As to the Hammonds, release the hounds


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## C_Clayton_Jones

'In phone interviews from inside the occupied building Saturday night, Ammon Bundy and his brother, Ryan Bundy, said they are not looking to hurt anyone. But they would not rule out violence if police try to remove them, they said, though they declined to elaborate.

"The facility has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds," Ammon Bundy said.

Or, brother. 

True idiocy.


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## Dot Com

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> 'In phone interviews from inside the occupied building Saturday night, Ammon Bundy and his brother, Ryan Bundy, said they are not looking to hurt anyone. But they would not rule out violence if police try to remove them, they said, though they declined to elaborate.
> 
> "The facility has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds," Ammon Bundy said.
> 
> Or, brother.
> 
> True idiocy.


why do rw'ers think that they are above the law?


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## C_Clayton_Jones

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.


Nonsense.

An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.


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## Katzndogz

11 years ago during a wildfire threatening homes,  including the Hammond home.   The Hammond father and son lit a backfire that saved all those homes.  Now obama wants to prosecute. 

Fuck that pillow lip bastard.  This should light the second civil war.


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## waltky

Son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy occupies wildlife refuge HQ...

*Peaceful protest followed by Oregon wildlife refuge action*
_Jan 2,`16  -- A peaceful protest Saturday in support of an eastern Oregon ranching family facing jail time for arson was followed shortly afterward by an occupation of a building at a national wildlife refuge._


> Ammon Bundy, the son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a standoff with the government over grazing rights, told The Oregonian (Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters ) he and two of his brothers were among a group of dozens of people occupying the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.  Ammon Bundy said the group planned to stay at the refuge indefinitely.  "We're planning on staying here for years, absolutely," Ammon Bundy said. "This is not a decision we've made at the last minute."  Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for people to come help him. Below the video is this statement: "**ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> An Idaho militia leader who helped organize the earlier march said he knew nothing about activities after a parade of militia members and local residents in Burns walked past the sheriff's office and the home of Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son Steven.  Beth Anne Steele, an FBI spokeswoman in Portland, told The Associated Press the agency was aware of the situation at the national wildlife refuge. She made no further comment.  Some local residents feared the Saturday rally would involve more than speeches, flags and marching. But the only real additions to that list seemed to be songs, flowers and pennies.
> 
> As marchers reached the courthouse, they tossed hundreds of pennies at the locked door. Their message: civilians were buying back their government. After the march passed, two girls swooped in to scavenge the pennies.  A few blocks away, Hammond and his wife Susan greeted marchers, who planted flower bouquets in the snow. They sang some songs, Hammond said a few words, and the protesters marched back to their cars.  Dwight Hammond has said he and his son plan to peacefully report to prison Jan. 4 as ordered by the judge.  Dwight Hammond, 73, and Steven Hammond, 46, said they lit the fires in 2001 and 2006 to reduce the growth of invasive plants and protect their property from wildfires.
> 
> The two were convicted of the arsons three years ago and served time - the father three months, the son one year. But a judge ruled their terms were too short under federal law and ordered them back to prison for about four years each.  The decision has generated controversy in a remote part of the state.  In particular, the Hammonds' new sentences touched a nerve with far right groups who repudiate federal authority.  Ammon Bundy and a handful of militiamen from other states arrived last month in Burns, some 60 miles from the Hammond ranch.  In an email to supporters, Ammon Bundy criticized the U.S. government for a failed legal process.
> 
> News from The Associated Press



See also:

*Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters*
_ January 02, 2016 - Update at 9:15 p.m.: Statement from Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward: "After the peaceful rally was completed today, a group of outside militants drove to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, where they seized and occupied the refuge headquarters. A collective effort from multiple agencies is currently working on a solution. For the time being please stay away from that area. More information will be provided as it becomes available. Please maintain a peaceful and united front and allow us to work through this situation."_


> The Bundy family of Nevada joined with hard-core militiamen Saturday to take over the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, vowing to occupy the remote federal outpost 50 miles southeast of Burns for years.  The occupation came shortly after an estimated 300 marchers – militia and local citizens both – paraded through Burns to protest the prosecution of two Harney County ranchers, Dwight Hammond Jr. and Steven Hammond, who are to report to prison on Monday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy, son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, participates in the protest march in Burns. He has tried to find a way to keep two local ranchers from reporting to prison Monday.​
> Among the occupiers is Ammon Bundy, son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, and two of his brothers. Militia members at the refuge claimed they had as many as 150 supporters with them. The refuge, federal property managed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, was closed and unoccupied for the holiday weekend.  In phone interviews from inside the occupied building Saturday night, Ammon Bundy and his brother, Ryan Bundy, said they are not looking to hurt anyone. But they would not rule out violence if police try to remove them, they said, though they declined to elaborate.
> 
> "The facility has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds," Ammon Bundy said.  "We're planning on staying here for years, absolutely," he added. "This is not a decision we've made at the last minute."
> 
> MORE


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## CowboyTed

Tipsycatlover said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
Click to expand...


Well this is embarrassing:
Neighbors: Vegas cop killers said they were at Bundy's ranch


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## westwall

Dot Com said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'In phone interviews from inside the occupied building Saturday night, Ammon Bundy and his brother, Ryan Bundy, said they are not looking to hurt anyone. But they would not rule out violence if police try to remove them, they said, though they declined to elaborate.
> 
> "The facility has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds," Ammon Bundy said.
> 
> Or, brother.
> 
> True idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> why do rw'ers think that they are above the law?
Click to expand...












I think they are emulating Obama.  He's been ignoring the rule of law for 6 years now.  I think you are going to see more and more of this.  The people figure if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.


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## westwall

CowboyTed said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well this is embarrassing:
> Neighbors: Vegas cop killers said they were at Bundy's ranch
Click to expand...






And they were kicked out for being too extremist.  They were also members of the Occupy Wallstreet movement or didn't your propaganda site mention those facts?  DOH!


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## Dot Com

Tipsycatlover said:


> 11 years ago during a wildfire threatening homes,  including the Hammond home.   The Hammond father and son lit a backfire that saved all those homes.  Now obama wants to prosecute.
> 
> Fuck that pillow lip bastard.  This should light the second civil war.


rw cray cray grl  delivers


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## C_Clayton_Jones

Tipsycatlover said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
Click to expand...

More nonsense.


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## Katzndogz

The Hammonds went to prison for three years, now 8 years later one of obama's judges decides its not enough time.  

Burn baby burn doesn't only belong to black people.


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## Missourian

SwimExpert said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aaaand Tipsy the terrorist is on ignore....
> 
> 
> 
> She is a complete rw wacko, yes.
> 
> As to the OP, they shouldn't do the crime if they cant do the time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From all accounts, the Hammonds have no interest in resisting their sentence, other than through valid legal avenues.  It's sad that a perfectly valid cause is corrupted through the repugnant actions of fanatical supporters.
Click to expand...


A cause you would have never heard of to support or condemn had it not been for the actions of those same fanatical supporters.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

Tipsycatlover said:


> 11 years ago during a wildfire threatening homes,  including the Hammond home.   The Hammond father and son lit a backfire that saved all those homes.  Now obama wants to prosecute..



Obama gave the order to prosecute?


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## Dot Com

Tipsycatlover said:


> The Hammonds went to prison for three years, now 8 years later one of obama's judges decides its not enough time.
> 
> Burn baby burn doesn't only belong to black people.


oh really Tipsycatlover ? 

Protest in Oregon followed by occupation of federal building


> The two were convicted of the arsons three years ago and served time —* the father three months, the son one year.*



Stick to dog grooming


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## C_Clayton_Jones

Tipsycatlover said:


> 11 years ago during a wildfire threatening homes,  including the Hammond home.   The Hammond father and son lit a backfire that saved all those homes.  Now obama wants to prosecute.
> 
> Fuck that pillow lip bastard.  This should light the second civil war.


Wrong again:

'The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires. Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed. The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby. The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.'

United States of America v. Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., Steven Dwight Hammond

The fires started were illegal, unauthorized, and endangered the lives of firefighters.


----------



## Dot Com

westwall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'In phone interviews from inside the occupied building Saturday night, Ammon Bundy and his brother, Ryan Bundy, said they are not looking to hurt anyone. But they would not rule out violence if police try to remove them, they said, though they declined to elaborate.
> 
> "The facility has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds," Ammon Bundy said.
> 
> Or, brother.
> 
> True idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> why do rw'ers think that they are above the law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they are emulating Obama.  He's been ignoring the rule of law for 6 years now.  I think you are going to see more and more of this.  The people figure if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.
Click to expand...

Ever heard of judicial review? Guess not.


----------



## DaGoose

If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????



> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."



Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest


----------



## strollingbones

are you serious?


----------



## Hugo Furst

By the time I got packed and loaded up, and drove to Oregon, it would be over.


----------



## strollingbones

yea even with the legal pot....i am not driving across country to support a nutzo....i can do that locally


----------



## The Great Goose

Sounds good to me. If I was in America I'd go.

However,  your name is troubling to me.


----------



## LoneLaugher

That's awesome. The Bundy dad washed his hands of the matter. 

Who's going? I sure hope the OP doesn't post and drive on his rush to the front.


----------



## LoneLaugher

The Great Goose said:


> Sounds good to me. If I was in America I'd go.
> 
> However,  your name is troubling to me.



No you wouldn't. Why lie?


----------



## LoneLaugher

WillHaftawaite said:


> By the time I got packed and loaded up, and drove to Oregon, it would be over.



Drat! Another patriot foiled by the American hatred of packing suitcases!

Maybe if you don't bring that entire Obama fueled arsenal you can get there in time to wave a misspelled sign.


----------



## Hugo Furst

Don't like flying, and even if I take the shortcut thru Canada, it's a 3000 mile drive.


----------



## Eaglewings

They are coming in from all directions~


----------



## SwimExpert

I am truly sickened by the fact that people are defending terrorism based on such absurd notions as "Obama sucks" and "we needed to get attention."


----------



## Stephanie

DaGoose said:


> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
Click to expand...


stand down you look foolish.  that is their deal. you go join up and tell us how it is. You don't like what they're doing. too bad


----------



## Bruce_T_Laney

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.
Click to expand...


Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.


----------



## Dot Com

SwimExpert said:


> I am truly sickened by the fact that people are defending terrorism based on such absurd notions as "Obama sucks" and "we needed to get attention."


same here.


----------



## Vigilante

Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man, 






*Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
Daily Mail
Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.


----------



## bodecea

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> 'In phone interviews from inside the occupied building Saturday night, Ammon Bundy and his brother, Ryan Bundy, said they are not looking to hurt anyone. But they would not rule out violence if police try to remove them, they said, though they declined to elaborate.
> 
> "The facility has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds," Ammon Bundy said.
> 
> Or, brother.
> 
> True idiocy.


Cut off the water and electricity and phone lines.......and wait.


----------



## Camp

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.
Click to expand...

Really, we are supposed to recognize Wikipedia on the definition of domestic terrorism?


----------



## bodecea

Tipsycatlover said:


> 11 years ago during a wildfire threatening homes,  including the Hammond home.   The Hammond father and son lit a backfire that saved all those homes.  Now obama wants to prosecute.
> 
> Fuck that pillow lip bastard.  This should light the second civil war.


So...that's how you plan on spinning this.......


----------



## bodecea

westwall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'In phone interviews from inside the occupied building Saturday night, Ammon Bundy and his brother, Ryan Bundy, said they are not looking to hurt anyone. But they would not rule out violence if police try to remove them, they said, though they declined to elaborate.
> 
> "The facility has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds," Ammon Bundy said.
> 
> Or, brother.
> 
> True idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> why do rw'ers think that they are above the law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they are emulating Obama.  He's been ignoring the rule of law for 6 years now.  I think you are going to see more and more of this.  The people figure if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.
Click to expand...

So...once again, a RWr shows their AWESOME analogy ability....."emulating Obama".....


----------



## Vigilante

You notice how the pond scum of the left CONVENIENTLY IGNORES this!







HYPOCRISY is a weapon that the subversives fail to understand!


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> You notice how the pond scum of the left CONVENIENTLY IGNORES this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HYPOCRISY is a weapon that the subversives fail to understand!


And...what happened to them?


----------



## Contumacious

SwimExpert said:


> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn *over federal land to local ranchers,* loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> You notice how the pond scum of the left CONVENIENTLY IGNORES this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HYPOCRISY is a weapon that the subversives fail to understand!
> 
> 
> 
> And...what happened to them?
Click to expand...


Why don't you use GOOGLE and find out? I don't make it easy on you assholes, I just MAKE IT!


----------



## Contumacious

SwimExpert said:


> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over* federal land to local ranchers*, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters





INCORRECT


The Bureau of Land Management (BLM)  IS the domestic terrorist.


.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Took over an unoccupied log cabin in the middle of nowhere = terrorism?


----------



## Moonglow

So Mr. Bundy took his case to court and lost, more than once, but is being abused by govt. terrorist..yet it is militia with weapons that are backing him..
Yet Mr. Bundy is walking free.... I wouldn't call that govt. terrorism in action...


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?


----------



## Moonglow

Grampa Murked U said:


> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?


The stuff you refuse to pay more for..


----------



## Camp

Vigilante said:


> Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
> www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
> Daily Mail
> Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.


They took over an abandoned building and no real evidence has been found that there were weapons involved. Original press reports to do not mention weapons being involved. Nobody cared about the takeover for establishing a student center for black students on the campus. The college didn't even care. They ended up making it a student center.


----------



## SwimExpert

Grampa Murked U said:


> Took over an unoccupied log cabin in the middle of nowhere = terrorism?



It's a federal facility.  You understand that, right?


----------



## Vigilante

Camp said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
> www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
> Daily Mail
> Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.
> 
> 
> 
> They took over an abandoned building and no real evidence has been found that there were weapons involved. Original press reports to do not mention weapons being involved. Nobody cared about the takeover for establishing a student center for black students on the campus. The college didn't even care. They ended up making it a student center.
Click to expand...


That's ODD! It ISN'T what the story I posted said!


As a college student, Eric Holder participated in a protest where dozens took over an empty office space in hopes of turning it into a black student lounge


*Unearthed archives claim that the protestors were 'armed' during the raid*

Holder, now Attorney General, was just cleared of wrong doing in the Fast and Furious gun trafficking scandal

Read more: Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part in protest at Columbia and occupied a school office for five days


----------



## Iceweasel

Dot Com said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you were a dog groomer? What exactly makes you an expert on this???
> 
> As to the OP, the occupiers need to be made an example of
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not a dog groomer.
> 
> Occupiers need to be made an example of, starting with occupy wall street and blm occupying stores and malls.
> 
> You okay with that?  Start shooting.  Lay a few hundred out.  Now we can talk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you stated on the board that you are a dog groomer. Your posting style fits the profile as well,. You are certifiable.
> 
> As to the OP, occupying federal buildings is a crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have been a dog groomer in the past.  But no, I'm not a dog groomer.
> 
> Occupying anyplace is a crime.  Start punishing them all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> whatever you are, you have shown yourself to be a brazenly hateful person oftentimes based solely on partisan issues
> 
> As to the Hammonds, release the hounds
Click to expand...

LOL, most ironic post of the year (so far).


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> You notice how the pond scum of the left CONVENIENTLY IGNORES this!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HYPOCRISY is a weapon that the subversives fail to understand!
> 
> 
> 
> And...what happened to them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why don't you use GOOGLE and find out? I don't make it easy on you assholes, I just MAKE IT!
Click to expand...

Wait....you hold that up for an example and YOU don't even know what happened to them?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

SwimExpert said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took over an unoccupied log cabin in the middle of nowhere = terrorism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a federal facility.  You understand that, right?
Click to expand...

You're really reaching for the sky. You understand that right?


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
> www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
> Daily Mail
> Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.
> 
> 
> 
> They took over an abandoned building and no real evidence has been found that there were weapons involved. Original press reports to do not mention weapons being involved. Nobody cared about the takeover for establishing a student center for black students on the campus. The college didn't even care. They ended up making it a student center.
Click to expand...

Thank you.....so hardly a comparison, is it?


----------



## Bruce_T_Laney

Camp said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, we are supposed to recognize Wikipedia on the definition of domestic terrorism?
Click to expand...


Maybe I should have used DailyKos instead?

Again if you have a issue with the source I am using offer one with a definition that suit you, and if not then you and the other poster need to go fuck yourself because it seem neither of you want to offer anything to counter the link, but instead prefer to attack me for not obeying your way of thinking!


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
> www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
> Daily Mail
> Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.
> 
> 
> 
> They took over an abandoned building and no real evidence has been found that there were weapons involved. Original press reports to do not mention weapons being involved. Nobody cared about the takeover for establishing a student center for black students on the campus. The college didn't even care. They ended up making it a student center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you.....so hardly a comparison, is it?
Click to expand...


You're right...THIS SCUM BAG, ERIC HOLDER WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL....so MUCH WORSE that 12 men taking over an empty federal building!


----------



## SwimExpert

Camp said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, we are supposed to recognize Wikipedia on the definition of domestic terrorism?
Click to expand...


They cite and notate the Patriot Act.  Wikipedia tends to do a pretty good job at pointing out information that is not properly cited, or that isn't supported by the reference that a contributor lists.  It's good enough to accept at face value.  If you doubt the veracity of the statement you're welcome to dig into the statutes and share them with everyone.


----------



## LordBrownTrout

Lol.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

In your attempt to mock the far right you've succeeded in making yourself look quite stupid.


----------



## Camp

Vigilante said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
> www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
> Daily Mail
> Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.
> 
> 
> 
> They took over an abandoned building and no real evidence has been found that there were weapons involved. Original press reports to do not mention weapons being involved. Nobody cared about the takeover for establishing a student center for black students on the campus. The college didn't even care. They ended up making it a student center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's ODD! It ISN'T what the story I posted said!
> 
> 
> As a college student, Eric Holder participated in a protest where dozens took over an empty office space in hopes of turning it into a black student lounge
> 
> 
> *Unearthed archives claim that the protestors were 'armed' during the raid*
> 
> Holder, now Attorney General, was just cleared of wrong doing in the Fast and Furious gun trafficking scandal
> Read more: Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part in protest at Columbia and occupied a school office for five days
Click to expand...

The only source claiming those people were armed is the conservative site The Daily Caller and they offer no documentation or evidence to back up their claim. That is from your link. Also, from your link is the Times quote from their coverage that the protestors were armed with "pillow cases and sheets".


----------



## Bruce_T_Laney

SwimExpert said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, we are supposed to recognize Wikipedia on the definition of domestic terrorism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They cite and notate the Patriot Act.  Wikipedia tends to do a pretty good job at pointing out information that is not properly cited, or that isn't supported by the reference that a contributor lists.  It's good enough to accept at face value.  If you doubt the veracity of the statement you're welcome to dig into the statutes and share them with everyone.
Click to expand...


Again why is it none of you are offering a link to counter the link I have provided, so i am going to do it for you and please note it is from the fucking FBI and tell them if you disagree with them!

Terrorism Definition


----------



## Contumacious

Moonglow said:


> So Mr. Bundy took his case to court and lost, more than once, but is being abused by govt. terrorist..yet it is militia with weapons that are backing him..
> Yet Mr. Bundy is walking free.... I wouldn't call that govt. terrorism in action...





Took the case to "court"?


HUH?


Are there any Article III Courts anywhere in the US?

Show me.


.


----------



## Bruce_T_Laney

SwimExpert said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, we are supposed to recognize Wikipedia on the definition of domestic terrorism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They cite and notate the Patriot Act.  Wikipedia tends to do a pretty good job at pointing out information that is not properly cited, or that isn't supported by the reference that a contributor lists.  It's good enough to accept at face value.  If you doubt the veracity of the statement you're welcome to dig into the statutes and share them with everyone.
Click to expand...


Just did and now explain why none of you counter with your own link of a definition that suited you?

Simple, you could not find one!


----------



## Vigilante

Camp said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
> www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
> Daily Mail
> Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.
> 
> 
> 
> They took over an abandoned building and no real evidence has been found that there were weapons involved. Original press reports to do not mention weapons being involved. Nobody cared about the takeover for establishing a student center for black students on the campus. The college didn't even care. They ended up making it a student center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's ODD! It ISN'T what the story I posted said!
> 
> 
> As a college student, Eric Holder participated in a protest where dozens took over an empty office space in hopes of turning it into a black student lounge
> 
> 
> *Unearthed archives claim that the protestors were 'armed' during the raid*
> 
> Holder, now Attorney General, was just cleared of wrong doing in the Fast and Furious gun trafficking scandal
> Read more: Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part in protest at Columbia and occupied a school office for five days
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only source claiming those people were armed is the conservative site The Daily Caller and they offer no documentation or evidence
Click to expand...


Well YOU THINK, er, let me put that in a different term, as you DON'T think,... you believe that a left wing rag like the Kos, or DemoRAT Underground would post something detrimental to a fag subversive?.....


----------



## Moonglow

Contumacious said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Mr. Bundy took his case to court and lost, more than once, but is being abused by govt. terrorist..yet it is militia with weapons that are backing him..
> Yet Mr. Bundy is walking free.... I wouldn't call that govt. terrorism in action...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took the case to "court"?
> 
> 
> HUH?
> 
> 
> Are there any Article III Courts anywhere in the US?
> 
> Show me.
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Courts that have been established under Article III of the Constitution, including the Supreme Court of the United States, United States Courts of Appeals, and United States District Courts, are called constitutional, or Article III, courts. Article III of the United States Constitution establishes the judicial power of the federal government

Article III Courts Law & Legal Definition


----------



## Moonglow

Vigilante said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
> www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
> Daily Mail
> Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.
> 
> 
> 
> They took over an abandoned building and no real evidence has been found that there were weapons involved. Original press reports to do not mention weapons being involved. Nobody cared about the takeover for establishing a student center for black students on the campus. The college didn't even care. They ended up making it a student center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's ODD! It ISN'T what the story I posted said!
> 
> 
> As a college student, Eric Holder participated in a protest where dozens took over an empty office space in hopes of turning it into a black student lounge
> 
> 
> *Unearthed archives claim that the protestors were 'armed' during the raid*
> 
> Holder, now Attorney General, was just cleared of wrong doing in the Fast and Furious gun trafficking scandal
> Read more: Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part in protest at Columbia and occupied a school office for five days
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only source claiming those people were armed is the conservative site The Daily Caller and they offer no documentation or evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well YOU THINK, er, let me put that in a different term, as you DON'T think,... you believe that a left wing rag like the Kos, or DemoRAT Underground would post something detrimental to a fag subversive?.....
Click to expand...

When did you learn to insert fag into your tired retorts?


----------



## Camp

Vigilante said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
> www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
> Daily Mail
> Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.
> 
> 
> 
> They took over an abandoned building and no real evidence has been found that there were weapons involved. Original press reports to do not mention weapons being involved. Nobody cared about the takeover for establishing a student center for black students on the campus. The college didn't even care. They ended up making it a student center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's ODD! It ISN'T what the story I posted said!
> 
> 
> As a college student, Eric Holder participated in a protest where dozens took over an empty office space in hopes of turning it into a black student lounge
> 
> 
> *Unearthed archives claim that the protestors were 'armed' during the raid*
> 
> Holder, now Attorney General, was just cleared of wrong doing in the Fast and Furious gun trafficking scandal
> Read more: Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part in protest at Columbia and occupied a school office for five days
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only source claiming those people were armed is the conservative site The Daily Caller and they offer no documentation or evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well YOU THINK, er, let me put that in a different term, as you DON'T think,... you believe that a left wing rag like the Kos, or DemoRAT Underground would post something detrimental to a fag subversive?.....
Click to expand...

The information came from your own source, your own  link. Try reading it you fool.


----------



## Vigilante

You mean that the HEADLINE WASN'T the same in the story?

Unearthed archives claim that the protestors were 'armed' during the raid

Read more: Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part in protest at Columbia and occupied a school office for five days


----------



## Camp

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, we are supposed to recognize Wikipedia on the definition of domestic terrorism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They cite and notate the Patriot Act.  Wikipedia tends to do a pretty good job at pointing out information that is not properly cited, or that isn't supported by the reference that a contributor lists.  It's good enough to accept at face value.  If you doubt the veracity of the statement you're welcome to dig into the statutes and share them with everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again why is it none of you are offering a link to counter the link I have provided, so i am going to do it for you and please note it is from the fucking FBI and tell them if you disagree with them!
> 
> Terrorism Definition
Click to expand...

What the terrorist are doing at the wildlife refuge in Oregon fit the definition as presented by the FBI in the link you provided.Thank you.


----------



## Contumacious

DaGoose said:


> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
Click to expand...




ARE YOU SERIOUS?

AMERICANS ALLOWED FEDGOV TO TERRORIZE THE DAVIDIANS FOR 3 MONTHS THEN INCINERATE THEM ALIVE ON PRIME TIME . THE FBI SHOWED UP WITH BULLDOZERS AT 4AM AND SANITIZED THE CRIME SCENE, THEN SCUMBAG SENATOR  _ SCHUMER WHITEWASHED THE WHOLE OPERATION ._


_THE US SENATE CONVENED  IN SECRETE AT 1 AM ON A SNOWY CHRISTMAS  EVE. THEY ADOPTED OBAMA HELLCARE._

_OBAMA IS THREATENING TO REGULATE FIREARMS BY EXECUTIVE PREROGATIVE._

_SO FEDGOV KNOWS AMERICANS ARE STUPID AND THAT THEY WILL GET AWAY WITH MURDER._


_._


----------



## Seawytch

Contumacious said:


> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ARE YOU SERIOUS?
> 
> AMERICANS ALLOWED FEDGOV TO TERRORIZE THE DAVIDIANS FOR 3 MONTHS THEN INCINERATE THEM ALIVE ON PRIME TIME . THE FBI SHOWED UP WITH BULLDOZERS AT 4AM AND SANITIZED THE CRIME SCENE, THEN SCUMBAG SENATOR  _ SCHUMER WHITEWASHED THE WHOLE OPERATION ._
> 
> 
> _THE US SENATE CONVENED  IN SECRETE AT 1 AM ON A SNOWY CHRISTMAS  EVE. THEY ADOPTED OBAMA HELLCARE._
> 
> _OBAMA IS THREATENING TO REGULATE FIREARMS BY EXECUTIVE PREROGATIVE._
> 
> _SO FEDGOV KNOWS AMERICANS ARE STUPID AND THAT THEY WILL GET AWAY WITH MURDER._
> 
> 
> _._
Click to expand...


So are you going to help out your fellow "patriots"?


----------



## Camp

Vigilante said:


> You mean that the HEADLINE WAN'T the same in the story?
> 
> Unearthed archives claim that the protestors were 'armed' during the raid
> 
> Read more: Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part in protest at Columbia and occupied a school office for five days


They make the claim of unearthed archives but do not provide them or explain where to find them. The alleged comment is supposed to have appeared on a website and the alleged comment was allegedly removed. So, the whole story from the conservative site is based on an allegation of something having existed, with no evidence it ever existed. It is countered with the evidence of the Times actually mocking the alleged nonsense. All that is in your own dopey link.


----------



## Vigilante

Perhaps THIS is meeting your definition?


----------



## Vigilante

Camp said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean that the HEADLINE WAN'T the same in the story?
> 
> Unearthed archives claim that the protestors were 'armed' during the raid
> 
> Read more: Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part in protest at Columbia and occupied a school office for five days
> 
> 
> 
> They make the claim of unearthed archives but do not provide them or explain where to find them. The alleged comment is supposed to have appeared on a website and the alleged comment was allegedly removed. So, the whole story from the conservative site is based on an allegation of something having existed, with no evidence it ever existed. It is countered with the evidence of the Times actually mocking the alleged nonsense.
Click to expand...


That's all that is necessary, since the N.Y. TIMES is a left wing rag that, as MOST of the MSM does, protects you leftist ANTI-Americans!


----------



## Preacher

strollingbones said:


> are you serious?


He is seriously stupid.


----------



## Contumacious

Moonglow said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Mr. Bundy took his case to court and lost, more than once, but is being abused by govt. terrorist..yet it is militia with weapons that are backing him..
> Yet Mr. Bundy is walking free.... I wouldn't call that govt. terrorism in action...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took the case to "court"?
> 
> 
> HUH?
> 
> 
> Are there any Article III Courts anywhere in the US?
> 
> Show me.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Courts that have been established under Article III of the Constitution, including the Supreme Court of the United States, United States Courts of Appeals, and United States District Courts, are called constitutional, or Article III, courts. Article III of the United States Constitution establishes the judicial power of the federal government
> 
> Article III Courts Law & Legal Definition
Click to expand...



LISTEN DINGLEBERRY


ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.


PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.

.


----------



## SwimExpert

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know just for the hell of it I looked up Domestic Terrorist, and even though I believe the Bundy Clan are domestic retards I can not yet call them Domestic Terrorists...
> 
> Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> You should read the list of Domestic Terrorist groups.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, we are supposed to recognize Wikipedia on the definition of domestic terrorism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They cite and notate the Patriot Act.  Wikipedia tends to do a pretty good job at pointing out information that is not properly cited, or that isn't supported by the reference that a contributor lists.  It's good enough to accept at face value.  If you doubt the veracity of the statement you're welcome to dig into the statutes and share them with everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just did and now explain why none of you counter with your own link of a definition that suited you?
> 
> Simple, you could not find one!
Click to expand...


I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the person who is bitching about your link.


----------



## jknowgood

All we need to do is get Trump elected and he can undo the Obama disaster.


----------



## Bruce_T_Laney

Camp said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, we are supposed to recognize Wikipedia on the definition of domestic terrorism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They cite and notate the Patriot Act.  Wikipedia tends to do a pretty good job at pointing out information that is not properly cited, or that isn't supported by the reference that a contributor lists.  It's good enough to accept at face value.  If you doubt the veracity of the statement you're welcome to dig into the statutes and share them with everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again why is it none of you are offering a link to counter the link I have provided, so i am going to do it for you and please note it is from the fucking FBI and tell them if you disagree with them!
> 
> Terrorism Definition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What the terrorist are doing at the wildlife refuge in Oregon fit the definition as presented by the FBI in the link you provided.Thank you.
Click to expand...


Both have almsot the same exact wording, so what part was wrong with the wikipedia definition?

It seem those like you are hell bent on telling me I was wrong, and when I presented the FBI as a source all of a sudden that link was perfectly fine but the wikipedia link was bogus.

Also it seem because I am not calling the Bundy Clan a bunch of terrorists is offending some of you, and I am happy it is.

Are they criminals to me?

Yes.

Are they domestic terrorists to me?

I will let the Government first offer their evidence and I might agree.

If you disagree with my stance then I can give a flying fuck. You have your right to your opinion but you do not have the right to tell me I should change mine and if I do not then bitch and moan that the site I was using to give the definition for domestic terrorism was wrong when in fact they used almost the exact same wording as the FBI site.

I swear some of you just want to bitch and demand that others write as you want and when I ask why you did not offer a link to counter my link you never responded, and the reason to me is because you could not find one that fit your description and that is a domestic terrorist is a white person that vote gop, owns guns, and is Christian!

Now look at the wording from both sites and notice how close they are!
Evidence:

"(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) appear to be intended— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."

Domestic terrorism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S

Terrorism Definition


----------



## Moonglow

Contumacious said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Mr. Bundy took his case to court and lost, more than once, but is being abused by govt. terrorist..yet it is militia with weapons that are backing him..
> Yet Mr. Bundy is walking free.... I wouldn't call that govt. terrorism in action...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took the case to "court"?
> 
> 
> HUH?
> 
> 
> Are there any Article III Courts anywhere in the US?
> 
> Show me.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Courts that have been established under Article III of the Constitution, including the Supreme Court of the United States, United States Courts of Appeals, and United States District Courts, are called constitutional, or Article III, courts. Article III of the United States Constitution establishes the judicial power of the federal government
> 
> Article III Courts Law & Legal Definition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Sure Buddy......Sure.......Your weakness is believing in the right to see it your way in the first place...


----------



## SwimExpert

Grampa Murked U said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took over an unoccupied log cabin in the middle of nowhere = terrorism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a federal facility.  You understand that, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're really reaching for the sky. You understand that right?
Click to expand...


....by calling a federal facility a federal facility?


----------



## Moonglow

SwimExpert said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took over an unoccupied log cabin in the middle of nowhere = terrorism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a federal facility.  You understand that, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're really reaching for the sky. You understand that right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ....by calling a federal facility a federal facility?
Click to expand...

It is the traditional drinking day of the mason trades....


----------



## Bruce_T_Laney

SwimExpert said:


> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> An act by an individual alone can be designated domestic terrorism – there's no 'requirement' that one belongs to a group or be 'officially recognized' as a terrorist entity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, we are supposed to recognize Wikipedia on the definition of domestic terrorism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They cite and notate the Patriot Act.  Wikipedia tends to do a pretty good job at pointing out information that is not properly cited, or that isn't supported by the reference that a contributor lists.  It's good enough to accept at face value.  If you doubt the veracity of the statement you're welcome to dig into the statutes and share them with everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just did and now explain why none of you counter with your own link of a definition that suited you?
> 
> Simple, you could not find one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the person who is bitching about your link.
Click to expand...


My apology.

Really, I apologize and feel bad for the comment to you.


----------



## SwimExpert

Contumacious said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Mr. Bundy took his case to court and lost, more than once, but is being abused by govt. terrorist..yet it is militia with weapons that are backing him..
> Yet Mr. Bundy is walking free.... I wouldn't call that govt. terrorism in action...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took the case to "court"?
> 
> 
> HUH?
> 
> 
> Are there any Article III Courts anywhere in the US?
> 
> Show me.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Courts that have been established under Article III of the Constitution, including the Supreme Court of the United States, United States Courts of Appeals, and United States District Courts, are called constitutional, or Article III, courts. Article III of the United States Constitution establishes the judicial power of the federal government
> 
> Article III Courts Law & Legal Definition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


New Years resolution to quit smoking, eh?


----------



## SwimExpert

Bruce_T_Laney said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce_T_Laney said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take it up with wikipedia and not me if you disagree with their definition.
> 
> 
> 
> Really, we are supposed to recognize Wikipedia on the definition of domestic terrorism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They cite and notate the Patriot Act.  Wikipedia tends to do a pretty good job at pointing out information that is not properly cited, or that isn't supported by the reference that a contributor lists.  It's good enough to accept at face value.  If you doubt the veracity of the statement you're welcome to dig into the statutes and share them with everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just did and now explain why none of you counter with your own link of a definition that suited you?
> 
> Simple, you could not find one!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the person who is bitching about your link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My apology.
> 
> Really, I apologize and feel bad for the comment to you.
Click to expand...


  No sweat, I wasn't offended.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

SwimExpert said:


> I am truly sickened by the fact that people are defending terrorism based on such absurd notions as "Obama sucks" and "we needed to get attention."


And the attention is being focused on the idiocy of their 'cause.'


----------



## Contumacious

Moonglow said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Mr. Bundy took his case to court and lost, more than once, but is being abused by govt. terrorist..yet it is militia with weapons that are backing him..
> Yet Mr. Bundy is walking free.... I wouldn't call that govt. terrorism in action...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took the case to "court"?
> 
> 
> HUH?
> 
> 
> Are there any Article III Courts anywhere in the US?
> 
> Show me.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Courts that have been established under Article III of the Constitution, including the Supreme Court of the United States, United States Courts of Appeals, and United States District Courts, are called constitutional, or Article III, courts. Article III of the United States Constitution establishes the judicial power of the federal government
> 
> Article III Courts Law & Legal Definition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure Buddy......Sure.......Your weakness is believing in the right to see it your way in the first place...
Click to expand...



YOUR WEAKNESS IS BELIEVING THAT FASCISM, GOVERNMENT SUPREMACY AND TYRANNY ARE COOL.


.


----------



## Camp

Who is regulating that militia?


----------



## Moonglow

Contumacious said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Mr. Bundy took his case to court and lost, more than once, but is being abused by govt. terrorist..yet it is militia with weapons that are backing him..
> Yet Mr. Bundy is walking free.... I wouldn't call that govt. terrorism in action...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took the case to "court"?
> 
> 
> HUH?
> 
> 
> Are there any Article III Courts anywhere in the US?
> 
> Show me.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Courts that have been established under Article III of the Constitution, including the Supreme Court of the United States, United States Courts of Appeals, and United States District Courts, are called constitutional, or Article III, courts. Article III of the United States Constitution establishes the judicial power of the federal government
> 
> Article III Courts Law & Legal Definition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure Buddy......Sure.......Your weakness is believing in the right to see it your way in the first place...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR WEAKNESS IS BELIEVING THAT FASCISM, GOVERNMENT SUPREMACY AND TYRANNY ARE COOL.
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Are you always in need of trying to put words into other peoples mouths and trying to prognosticate their fate accompli...???


----------



## Contumacious

SwimExpert said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Mr. Bundy took his case to court and lost, more than once, but is being abused by govt. terrorist..yet it is militia with weapons that are backing him..
> Yet Mr. Bundy is walking free.... I wouldn't call that govt. terrorism in action...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took the case to "court"?
> 
> 
> HUH?
> 
> 
> Are there any Article III Courts anywhere in the US?
> 
> Show me.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Courts that have been established under Article III of the Constitution, including the Supreme Court of the United States, United States Courts of Appeals, and United States District Courts, are called constitutional, or Article III, courts. Article III of the United States Constitution establishes the judicial power of the federal government
> 
> Article III Courts Law & Legal Definition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> New Years resolution to quit smoking, eh?
Click to expand...



NEW YEARS RESOLUTION TO HIT THE BOOKS, EH?

.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

The premise of this thread is stupid


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Grampa Murked U said:


> Took over an unoccupied log cabin in the middle of nowhere = terrorism?


No different than mailing envelopes with harmless white power:

Texas man arrested in connection with white powder letter hoaxes

And just as much an act of terror.


----------



## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 11 years ago during a wildfire threatening homes,  including the Hammond home.   The Hammond father and son lit a backfire that saved all those homes.  Now obama wants to prosecute.
> 
> Fuck that pillow lip bastard.  This should light the second civil war.
> 
> 
> 
> So...that's how you plan on spinning this.......
Click to expand...

She took the (rw) racist route


----------



## Contumacious

Moonglow said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took the case to "court"?
> 
> 
> HUH?
> 
> 
> Are there any Article III Courts anywhere in the US?
> 
> Show me.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Courts that have been established under Article III of the Constitution, including the Supreme Court of the United States, United States Courts of Appeals, and United States District Courts, are called constitutional, or Article III, courts. Article III of the United States Constitution establishes the judicial power of the federal government
> 
> Article III Courts Law & Legal Definition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure Buddy......Sure.......Your weakness is believing in the right to see it your way in the first place...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR WEAKNESS IS BELIEVING THAT FASCISM, GOVERNMENT SUPREMACY AND TYRANNY ARE COOL.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you always in need of trying to put words into other peoples mouths and trying to prognosticate their fate accompli...???
Click to expand...



ARE YOU ALWAYS IN NEED TO ACT AS AN APOLOGIST OF THE GARGANTUAN WELFARE/WARFARE POLICE STATE?


.


----------



## Moonglow

Contumacious said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Courts that have been established under Article III of the Constitution, including the Supreme Court of the United States, United States Courts of Appeals, and United States District Courts, are called constitutional, or Article III, courts. Article III of the United States Constitution establishes the judicial power of the federal government
> 
> Article III Courts Law & Legal Definition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure Buddy......Sure.......Your weakness is believing in the right to see it your way in the first place...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR WEAKNESS IS BELIEVING THAT FASCISM, GOVERNMENT SUPREMACY AND TYRANNY ARE COOL.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you always in need of trying to put words into other peoples mouths and trying to prognosticate their fate accompli...???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ARE YOU ALWAYS IN NEED TO AS AN APOLOGIST OF THE GARGANTUAN WELFARE/WARFARE POLICE STATE?
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Are you a demented freak that only types in upper case?


----------



## Dot Com

Contumacious said:


> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .


link? Mkaythanks


----------



## Contumacious

Moonglow said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Sure Buddy......Sure.......Your weakness is believing in the right to see it your way in the first place...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR WEAKNESS IS BELIEVING THAT FASCISM, GOVERNMENT SUPREMACY AND TYRANNY ARE COOL.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you always in need of trying to put words into other peoples mouths and trying to prognosticate their fate accompli...???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ARE YOU ALWAYS IN NEED TO AS AN APOLOGIST OF THE GARGANTUAN WELFARE/WARFARE POLICE STATE?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you a demented freak that only types in upper case?
Click to expand...



NO, ONLY WHEN I AM ARGUING WITH THOSE WHO ARE BLIND AND STUPID.


.


----------



## Dot Com

Moonglow said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Sure Buddy......Sure.......Your weakness is believing in the right to see it your way in the first place...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR WEAKNESS IS BELIEVING THAT FASCISM, GOVERNMENT SUPREMACY AND TYRANNY ARE COOL.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you always in need of trying to put words into other peoples mouths and trying to prognosticate their fate accompli...???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ARE YOU ALWAYS IN NEED TO AS AN APOLOGIST OF THE GARGANTUAN WELFARE/WARFARE POLICE STATE?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you a demented freak that only types in upper case?
Click to expand...

he's one of the handful of libertarian-wannabes here. AKA- lolibertarians

As to the OP, the terrorists knew exactly what they were doing


----------



## Contumacious

Dot Com said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> link? Mkaythanks
Click to expand...




LINK?


LISTEN STUPID FUCK , STICK YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE WINDOW AND YOU WILL SEE A GARGANTUAN WELFARE/WARFARE POLICE STATE.

HOW THE FUCK DID WE BECOME ONE IF THE FEDERAL "JUDGES" ARE DOING THEIR JOB?!?!?!?!?!?!?


.


----------



## SwimExpert

Grampa Murked U said:


> The premise of this thread is stupid



You keep saying that, but you can't explain why.  An armed militia have taken control of a federal facility.  According their words we know this:

*INTENTIONS*
-To retain control indefinitely
-To use force and violence to retain control indefinitely


*MOTIVATIONS*
-To effect the transfer of certain federal lands to private use
-To influence government policies
-To effect the release of two individuals from sentences for tried and convicted felony crimes
-General anti US government sentiments

Why is this no terrorism?


----------



## Contumacious

Dot Com said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure Buddy......Sure.......Your weakness is believing in the right to see it your way in the first place...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR WEAKNESS IS BELIEVING THAT FASCISM, GOVERNMENT SUPREMACY AND TYRANNY ARE COOL.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you always in need of trying to put words into other peoples mouths and trying to prognosticate their fate accompli...???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ARE YOU ALWAYS IN NEED TO AS AN APOLOGIST OF THE GARGANTUAN WELFARE/WARFARE POLICE STATE?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you a demented freak that only types in upper case?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he's one of the handful of libertarian-wannabes here. AKA- lolibertarians
> 
> As to the OP, the terrorists knew exactly what they were doing
Click to expand...




AND YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE STUPID FUCK MAJORITY.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

SwimExpert said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> The premise of this thread is stupid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep saying that, but you can't explain why.  An armed militia have taken control of a federal facility.  According their words we know this:
> 
> *INTENTIONS*
> -To retain control indefinitely
> -To use force and violence to retain control indefinitely
> 
> 
> *MOTIVATIONS*
> -To effect the transfer of certain federal lands to private use
> -To influence government policies
> -To effect the release of two individuals from sentences for tried and convicted felony crimes
> -General anti US government sentiments
> 
> Why is this no terrorism?
Click to expand...

Was BLM stopping shoppers in the mall terrorism?

Your premise is stupid and if you can't admit your just trying to agitate the far right them I can't help you. 

Thread fail imo


----------



## westwall

bodecea said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'In phone interviews from inside the occupied building Saturday night, Ammon Bundy and his brother, Ryan Bundy, said they are not looking to hurt anyone. But they would not rule out violence if police try to remove them, they said, though they declined to elaborate.
> 
> "The facility has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds," Ammon Bundy said.
> 
> Or, brother.
> 
> True idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> why do rw'ers think that they are above the law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they are emulating Obama.  He's been ignoring the rule of law for 6 years now.  I think you are going to see more and more of this.  The people figure if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So...once again, a RWr shows their AWESOME analogy ability....."emulating Obama".....
Click to expand...










Hey, if the shoe fits and all of that.  obama has been ignoring the rule of law for years and guess what people model behavior they see.  That _IS_ how children learn after all.  
I'm not saying I approve of it, I am merely pointing out that once a person in power begins to do something others follow.


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
> www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
> Daily Mail
> Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.
> 
> 
> 
> They took over an abandoned building and no real evidence has been found that there were weapons involved. Original press reports to do not mention weapons being involved. Nobody cared about the takeover for establishing a student center for black students on the campus. The college didn't even care. They ended up making it a student center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you.....so hardly a comparison, is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right...THIS SCUM BAG, ERIC HOLDER WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL....so MUCH WORSE that 12 men taking over an empty federal building!
Click to expand...

Why is he a scum bag?   If you had actually paid attention, you would have known they didn't get arrested because they didn't break the law.


----------



## SwimExpert

Grampa Murked U said:


> Was BLM stopping shoppers in the mall terrorism?







> Your premise is stupid and if you can't admit your just trying to agitate the far right them I can't help you.
> 
> Thread fail imo



So, you've got nothing.  BTW, would you be satisfied that this is terrorism if it was about a religious mission? 

God told him to do it, apparently.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

SwimExpert said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was BLM stopping shoppers in the mall terrorism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your premise is stupid and if you can't admit your just trying to agitate the far right them I can't help you.
> 
> Thread fail imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you've got nothing.  BTW, would you be satisfied that this is terrorism if it was about a religious mission?
> 
> God told him to do it, apparently.
Click to expand...

If they actually terrorize someone I'll consider it terrorism. Free speech is not terrorism.

Stop being a political dumbfuck


----------



## Dot Com

Contumacious said:


> NEW YEARS RESOLUTION TO HIT THE BOOKS, EH?
> 
> .


Stop yelling libertarian boi

as to the OP, they knew that their occupation would draw notice (illegal act) or they wouldn't have done it. That was their premise.


----------



## SwimExpert

Grampa Murked U said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was BLM stopping shoppers in the mall terrorism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your premise is stupid and if you can't admit your just trying to agitate the far right them I can't help you.
> 
> Thread fail imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you've got nothing.  BTW, would you be satisfied that this is terrorism if it was about a religious mission?
> 
> God told him to do it, apparently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they actually terrorize someone I'll consider it terrorism. Free speech is not terrorism.
> 
> Stop being a political dumbfuck
Click to expand...


What part of free speech includes seizing control of federal buildings with an armed militia!?!

Do you actually know anything about what's going on?  This isn't about a protest.  There was a protest earlier in the day.  This is about *the seizure and occupation of a federal building by an armed militia of approximately 150 members*.


----------



## Camp

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, those BOYS are just doing what the FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL did when he was a young man,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Attorney General Eric Holder was 'armed' when he took part ...*
> www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Attorney-General-*Eric*-*Holder*-*armed*...
> Daily Mail
> Oct 1, 2012 - As a _college_ student, _Eric Holder_ participated in a protest where ... The website credits the _weapons_ claim to the Columbia Black ... student group decided to _take over_ the unused space so that it could be rededicated as a place for students of color to meet.
> 
> 
> 
> They took over an abandoned building and no real evidence has been found that there were weapons involved. Original press reports to do not mention weapons being involved. Nobody cared about the takeover for establishing a student center for black students on the campus. The college didn't even care. They ended up making it a student center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you.....so hardly a comparison, is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right...THIS SCUM BAG, ERIC HOLDER WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL....so MUCH WORSE that 12 men taking over an empty federal building!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is he a scum bag?   If you had actually paid attention, you would have known they didn't get arrested because they didn't break the law.
Click to expand...

It wasn't even a federal building. It was an unused University building that had been previously used by the ROTC. The protesters weren't even trespassing because the University didn't ask them to leave. Other protests were occurring and the University was glad to allow an unused vacant building as a meeting and protest site.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

SwimExpert said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was BLM stopping shoppers in the mall terrorism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your premise is stupid and if you can't admit your just trying to agitate the far right them I can't help you.
> 
> Thread fail imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you've got nothing.  BTW, would you be satisfied that this is terrorism if it was about a religious mission?
> 
> God told him to do it, apparently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they actually terrorize someone I'll consider it terrorism. Free speech is not terrorism.
> 
> Stop being a political dumbfuck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What part of free speech includes seizing control of federal buildings with an armed militia!?!
> 
> Do you actually know anything about what's going on?  This isn't about a protest.  There was a protest earlier in the day.  This is about *the seizure and occupation of a federal building by an armed militia of approximately 150 members*.
Click to expand...

If true that may be a crime but I hardly consider it terrorism. If Nadal Hassan was workplace violence how the fuck is this terrorism.

In the end I don't really give a fuck about some rednecks taking over a deserted log cabin in the middle of nowhere. 

Later


----------



## Dot Com

Contumacious said:


> AND YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE STUPID FUCK MAJORITY.


That would explain my VERY EASY TO SEE siggie pic idiot Contumacious


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Grampa Murked U said:


> The premise of this thread is stupid


And your lack of meaningful contribution is typical.


----------



## initforme

What are these weirdos protesting about? Emphasis weirdos


----------



## Contumacious

Dot Com said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> NEW YEARS RESOLUTION TO HIT THE BOOKS, EH?
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Stop yelling libertarian boi
> 
> as to the OP, they knew that their occupation would draw notice (illegal act) or they wouldn't have done it. That was their premise.
Click to expand...



No "illegal" act - courageous act? yes, indeed.


----------



## SwimExpert

initforme said:


> What are these weirdos protesting about? Emphasis weirdos



The protest was about the Hammonds increased prison sentences.  I haven't had the chance to dig into it much, but from what I understand the basic gist of it is that the Hammonds already served their sentences years ago, but somehow the government managed to get the appellate court to decide that the sentences weren't long enough, and has ordered them back to prison for another four years.  

Now see, this is a perfectly valid issue to complain about.  It's something that everyone should find disturbing.  Doesn't justify terrorism, though.


----------



## initforme

What right does he have to graze his cattle on other lands than his?   If his cattle went on my land,  I would have filled my freezer with his beef, on his dime.


----------



## Contumacious

SwimExpert said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was BLM stopping shoppers in the mall terrorism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your premise is stupid and if you can't admit your just trying to agitate the far right them I can't help you.
> 
> Thread fail imo
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, you've got nothing.  BTW, would you be satisfied that this is terrorism if it was about a religious mission?
> 
> God told him to do it, apparently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If they actually terrorize someone I'll consider it terrorism. Free speech is not terrorism.
> 
> Stop being a political dumbfuck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What part of free speech includes seizing control of federal buildings with an armed militia!?!
> 
> Do you actually know anything about what's going on?  This isn't about a protest.  There was a protest earlier in the day.  This is about *the seizure and occupation of a federal building by an armed militia of approximately 150 members*.
Click to expand...




Do you actually know anything about what's going on? This isn't about a protest. There was a protest earlier in the day. This is about *the seizure and occupation of federal lands by the continuing criminal enterprise known as the federal government.


*


----------



## Muhammed

I heard it had something to do with arson. If someone burned a Hammond B3 there must be some kind of law against it. Destroying a historical object or museum piece or whatever. Is there a law against that?


----------



## SwimExpert

Contumacious said:


> Do you actually know anything about what's going on? This isn't about a protest. There was a protest earlier in the day. This is about *the seizure and occupation of federal lands by the continuing criminal enterprise known as the federal government.*


----------



## Dot Com

SwimExpert said:


> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you actually know anything about what's going on? This isn't about a protest. There was a protest earlier in the day. This is about *the seizure and occupation of federal lands by the continuing criminal enterprise known as the federal government.*
Click to expand...

that about sums up the deadbeat posse which Contumacious sides with.

As to their sentences they served a year or less which usually means jail. They were SUPPOSED to spend prison time (for sentences OVER a year's time.


----------



## bravoactual

Tipsycatlover said:


> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.



Or be Black, or Muslim or Hispanic.


----------



## Muhammed

Look what they eventually did to Hendrix after he burned that Stratocaster.


----------



## bodecea

westwall said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'In phone interviews from inside the occupied building Saturday night, Ammon Bundy and his brother, Ryan Bundy, said they are not looking to hurt anyone. But they would not rule out violence if police try to remove them, they said, though they declined to elaborate.
> 
> "The facility has been the tool to do all the tyranny that has been placed upon the Hammonds," Ammon Bundy said.
> 
> Or, brother.
> 
> True idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> why do rw'ers think that they are above the law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think they are emulating Obama. * He's been ignoring the rule of law for 6 years now*.  I think you are going to see more and more of this.  The people figure if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So...once again, a RWr shows their AWESOME analogy ability....."emulating Obama".....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, if the shoe fits and all of that.  obama has been ignoring the rule of law for years and guess what people model behavior they see.  That _IS_ how children learn after all.
> I'm not saying I approve of it, I am merely pointing out that once a person in power begins to do something others follow.
Click to expand...

Such as?


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> Perhaps THIS is meeting your definition?


Was that considered acceptable?  What posters were making excuses for that?


----------



## bodecea

Contumacious said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Mr. Bundy took his case to court and lost, more than once, but is being abused by govt. terrorist..yet it is militia with weapons that are backing him..
> Yet Mr. Bundy is walking free.... I wouldn't call that govt. terrorism in action...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took the case to "court"?
> 
> 
> HUH?
> 
> 
> Are there any Article III Courts anywhere in the US?
> 
> Show me.
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Courts that have been established under Article III of the Constitution, including the Supreme Court of the United States, United States Courts of Appeals, and United States District Courts, are called constitutional, or Article III, courts. Article III of the United States Constitution establishes the judicial power of the federal government
> 
> Article III Courts Law & Legal Definition
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure Buddy......Sure.......Your weakness is believing in the right to see it your way in the first place...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> YOUR WEAKNESS IS BELIEVING THAT FASCISM, GOVERNMENT SUPREMACY AND TYRANNY ARE COOL.
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

All caps.  Gee, that's convincing.


----------



## Dot Com

update on the domestic terrorists:

Armed militia, Bundy brothers take over federal building in rural Oregon



> Prosecutors said the father and son set the fire, which burned about 130 acres in 2001 on leased federal land, to conceal poaching, according to CNN. The Hammonds argued that they were attempting to reduce the growth of invasive plant species and ward off potential wildfires. The pair was sentenced to five years in prison.


----------



## bodecea

Contumacious said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contumacious said:
> 
> 
> 
> LISTEN DINGLEBERRY
> 
> 
> ARTICLE III COURTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IMPARTIAL, INDEPENDENT AND  FAMILIAR WITH THE US CONSTITUTION. A BULWARK OF LIBERTY.
> 
> 
> PRESENT  "JUDGES" ARE BIASED , HAVE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE GARGANTUAN, WELFARE WARFARE POLICE STATE, THEY PROMOTE CORPORATISM, THEIR JOB IS TO INCREASE THE SIZE AND POWER OF GOVERNMENTS.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> link? Mkaythanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LINK?
> 
> 
> LISTEN STUPID FUCK , STICK YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE WINDOW AND YOU WILL SEE A GARGANTUAN WELFARE/WARFARE POLICE STATE.
> 
> HOW THE FUCK DID WE BECOME ONE IF THE FEDERAL "JUDGES" ARE DOING THEIR JOB?!?!?!?!?!?!?
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

More caps....amazing how convincing that is.


----------



## peach174

Tipsycatlover said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
Click to expand...




Terrorism Definition
FBI
"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:


Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.


----------



## Dot Com

This is not some run down backwoods cabin that the rw terrorists are illegally occupying:

Armed group takes over Oregon wildlife refuge building  - CNN.com


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

The Hammonds were afforded full and comprehensive due process. 

They were found guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers, and sentenced in accordance with the law.

Again, the fires they started were on public land, unauthorized by the BLM, and endangered the lives of firefighters battling other fires in the area.

This 'occupation' of Federal property is unjustified, unwarranted, illegal, and devoid of merit – no one has been subject to any 'abuse' on the part of the Federal government, no rights 'abridged' by the Federal government, no law 'violated' by the Federal government.


----------



## Dot Com

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> The Hammonds were afforded full and comprehensive due process.
> 
> They were found guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers, and sentenced in accordance with the law.
> 
> Again, the fires they started were on public land, unauthorized by the BLM, and endangered the lives of firefighters battling other fires in the area.
> 
> This 'occupation' of Federal property is unjustified, unwarranted, illegal, and devoid of merit – no one has been subject to any 'abuse' on the part of the Federal government, no rights 'abridged' by the Federal government, no law 'violated' by the Federal government.


^ that

America, love it or leave it.


----------



## bravoactual

Armed White People can take over Government Property without a blip.

Unarmed Black Men are being shot every day.

Wow.


----------



## boedicca

Of course the OP and his Prog Hack Comrades immediately start spinning the terrorist narrative.

The real terrorists are government bureaucrats who shred The Constitution.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

bravoactual said:


> Armed White People can take over Government Property without a blip.
> 
> Unarmed Black Men are being shot every day.
> 
> Wow.


Putin down the crack pipes.
Pull up your pants.
Turn off the ghetto trash music.
Pay attention in school.
Trade in your illegal guns for a job.

Problem solved


----------



## Dot Com

Any wonder it is in Oregon? Interesting

http://gizmodo.com/oregon-was-founded-as-a-racist-utopia-1539567040

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk


----------



## DaGoose

I am truly disappointed in the so-called "Patriots" in this forum. Obviously they don't care enough to go and help their fellow Patriots when called to do so. Here was the perfect chance to show everyone that they believe in a free America and the 2nd Amendment and what do they do? Simply sit on their asses and flap their jaws. They obviously don't have the balls to go do their Patriotic duty and are content to let their fellow Patriots twist in the wind. Bunch of chickenshit, ball-less bastards.

(Sarcasm intentional to show their do-nothing, jaw flappin hypocrisy.)


----------



## Mr Natural

They ain't got a hair on their ass if they don't start shooting.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

jknowgood said:


> All we need to do is get Trump elected and he can undo the Obama disaster.



jknowgood

Yeah, cuz we didn't have federal buildings until Obama was elected. And if had, it would have been legal for criminals to occupy them. Darn that Obama, anyway.

Dummy.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Stephanie said:


> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> stand down you look foolish.  that is their deal. you go join up and tell us how it is. You don't like what they're doing. too bad
Click to expand...


*OMG OMG OMG OMG*

Foolish is you trying to scare up some enthusiasm for American Sproing. If you were a true patriot, you'd be flogging this disaster too. 

*LET'S ROLL ON THIS PEOPLE, BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.*


----------



## jknowgood

Luddly Neddite said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> All we need to do is get Trump elected and he can undo the Obama disaster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood
> 
> Yeah, cuz we didn't have federal buildings until Obama was elected. And if had, it would have been legal for criminals to occupy them. Darn that Obama, anyway.
> 
> Dummy.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about all of Obama's  disasters. It may take his first four years, but Obama has released the power to future presidents to do it.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

How come the Hammonds don't want anything to do with this little mess? 

Hmmm ?


----------



## Centinel

DaGoose said:


> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
Click to expand...


Which of Congress' enumerated powers would allow it to enact legislation that creates national wildlife refuges?


----------



## LordBrownTrout

The libs are hankering and yearning for a janet reno bbq.


----------



## Camp

LordBrownTrout said:


> The libs are hankering and yearning for a janet reno bbq.


Are they using babies, toddlers and kids for shields in Oregon?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

jknowgood said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> All we need to do is get Trump elected and he can undo the Obama disaster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood
> 
> Yeah, cuz we didn't have federal buildings until Obama was elected. And if had, it would have been legal for criminals to occupy them. Darn that Obama, anyway.
> 
> Dummy.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm talking about all of Obama's  disasters. It may take his first four years, but Obama has released the power to future presidents to do it.
Click to expand...



No he hasn't and that's not at all what you meant. Its just your brainless, knee jerk reaction to everything. Tod you stupid fools, everything is Obama's fault and he's worse than anyone and everyone in the past. And THAT is a lie.

All the excuses you fools yammer about - not one of them is true. You get lied to and you're too damn dumb to educate yourself so you just keep repeating the same lies. 

Obama has nothing at all to do with the actions of these domestic terrorists.


----------



## jknowgood

Luddly Neddite said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> All we need to do is get Trump elected and he can undo the Obama disaster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jknowgood
> 
> Yeah, cuz we didn't have federal buildings until Obama was elected. And if had, it would have been legal for criminals to occupy them. Darn that Obama, anyway.
> 
> Dummy.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm talking about all of Obama's  disasters. It may take his first four years, but Obama has released the power to future presidents to do it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No he hasn't and that's not at all what you meant. Its just your brainless, knee jerk reaction to everything. Tod you stupid fools, everything is Obama's fault and he's worse than anyone and everyone in the past. And THAT is a lie.
> 
> All the excuses you fools yammer about - not one of them is true. You get lied to and you're too damn dumb to educate yourself so you just keep repeating the same lies.
> 
> Obama has nothing at all to do with the actions of these domestic terrorists.
Click to expand...

I'm not the one that still defends the lie of the year, am I? I think Gruber was looking straight at you when he said Obama was relying on the stupidity of Americans. To get obamacare approved.


----------



## bodecea

DaGoose said:


> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
Click to expand...

Another American Spring?


----------



## bodecea

Stephanie said:


> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> stand down you look foolish.  that is their deal. you go join up and tell us how it is. You don't like what they're doing. too bad
Click to expand...

Let's ROLLLLLL, Staphanie!


----------



## Dana7360

Tipsycatlover said:


> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.




So the 9-11 hijackers aren't terrorists?

The Boston bombers weren't terrorists?

The crazy people who shot up San Bernardino weren't terrorists?

isis have never hanged anyone so I guess they aren't terrorists either. 

The taliban and al queda didn't hang anyone so they must not be terrorists either. 

Do you know how stupid your post is?


----------



## Eaglewings

I keep thinking of a Waco Texas ending


----------



## Noomi

SwimExpert said:


> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters



The sad thing is that if they were Muslims, they would be immediately labeled terrorists, and the building would have been stormed and the occupants shot dead by now. Instead, since its a bunch of white people, they are simply holding a 'peaceful protest' and are not terrorists at all.


----------



## bravoactual

LordBrownTrout said:


> The libs are hankering and yearning for a janet reno bbq.



You would be demanding blood if these people part of Black Lives Matter.

White People with firearms occupying Federal Property.  Arrest every last one of them.


----------



## Dot Com

I hate domestic terrorists. HATE!!! First they commit arson and get convicted and now they illegally occupy a fed bldg. knowing the consequences.


----------



## DaGoose

Good question............


----------



## bodecea

LordBrownTrout said:


> The libs are hankering and yearning for a janet reno bbq.


Naw....I'd like to see them come out wimpering and dirty and smelly from being without power and water for a while.


----------



## OKTexas

Centinel said:


> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which of Congress' enumerated powers would allow it to enact legislation that creates national wildlife refuges?
Click to expand...


There ya go again, expecting congress to follow the Constitution. Politicians are like petulant children, they think it's their job to push the boundaries, not stay within them. The more power they garner to themselves the less power the people have.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Occupying public property is now terrorism. Unless you're left-wing, then it's "social justice" (Occupy Wall Street).


----------



## candycorn

Contumacious said:


> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ARE YOU SERIOUS?
> 
> AMERICANS ALLOWED FEDGOV TO TERRORIZE THE DAVIDIANS FOR 3 MONTHS THEN INCINERATE THEM ALIVE ON PRIME TIME . THE FBI SHOWED UP WITH BULLDOZERS AT 4AM AND SANITIZED THE CRIME SCENE, THEN SCUMBAG SENATOR  _SCHUMER WHITEWASHED THE WHOLE OPERATION ._
> 
> 
> _THE US SENATE CONVENED  IN SECRETE AT 1 AM ON A SNOWY CHRISTMAS  EVE. THEY ADOPTED OBAMA HELLCARE._
> 
> _OBAMA IS THREATENING TO REGULATE FIREARMS BY EXECUTIVE PREROGATIVE._
> 
> _SO FEDGOV KNOWS AMERICANS ARE STUPID AND THAT THEY WILL GET AWAY WITH MURDER._
> 
> 
> _._
Click to expand...

 
It was not in prime time....It was in the afternoon. 

We wanted to make sure it made the evening news. 

Amateur.


----------



## candycorn

DaGoose said:


> I am truly disappointed in the so-called "Patriots" in this forum. Obviously they don't care enough to go and help their fellow Patriots when called to do so. Here was the perfect chance to show everyone that they believe in a free America and the 2nd Amendment and what do they do? Simply sit on their asses and flap their jaws. They obviously don't have the balls to go do their Patriotic duty and are content to let their fellow Patriots twist in the wind. Bunch of chickenshit, ball-less bastards.
> 
> (Sarcasm intentional to show their do-nothing, jaw flappin hypocrisy.)


 
Try them in the 2 week period between the end of football season and the start of NASCAR.


----------



## Old Rocks

There has been a lot of nonsense on different threads here about this situation. While I don't know the Hammond's personally, I know a lot of the ranchers in that area, and the Hammond's, from all that I have read, seem little different from most of them. These are independent, hard working, and hardheaded, some would even say pigheaded, people. They have to be. The high desert gives of it lean bounty only to those that are as tough and stubborn as it is. The Hammond's are not thugs, as some have suggested, or even criminals. They come from a culture that is used to doing for themselves, because there is no one else in most of that wonderfully empty country to do for you most of the time. And, acting in that manner, they did something that was criminally stupid. And they have already served just sentences for that stupidity.

There is no reason for them to go back to jail. Were I there, I would have marched in that protest. However, that in no way justifies what Bundy and his bunch have done. They care nothing about the Hammond's, they are simply crazies trying to start bloodshed.

Originally, on their arrival in Burns, they stated that they were going to occupy the courthouse and prevent anyone from taking the Hammond's anywhere. After talking to the locals, and being told to keep their scuzzy asses out of this, it was none of their business, they changed their minds. Good thing, had they tried that, the locals would have walked all over those scuzzy asses.

So, after the march, they went down to occupy the Malhuer Game Reserve. Here I quote from the Oregonian;

Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers, and miners. He said he met Friday with 10 or so residents in Burns to try to recruit them, but they declined.

"We went to the local communities and presented it many times and to many differant people". He said. "They were not strong enough to make a stand. So many individuals across the United States and in Oregon are making this stand. We hope that they will grab onto this and realize it has been happening".

End of quote from the Oregonian.

So, it is not the locals, it is outsiders that are stirring up this trouble, could not even get 10 people from Burns to go along with them.

The Governor needs to put the National Guard around all the roads into the Refuge building, and allow nothing in or out. Post cameras, and if one of the locos points a gun at any Natonal Guardsman or law officer, he faces assualt with a deadly charges when this is over. And, when they finally have to come out, all their vehicles and weapons are seized, and they are arrested for criminal trespass. And if there is damage to anything in that building, or the building itself, they face charges for that.

All their weapons should be seized and destroyed, also. This kind of thing need to come to an end.


----------



## Katzndogz

No one finds that there is something wrong with a judge ordering additional time 8 years after the sentence was served and the men released from prison?  

Not a thing wrong with that.


----------



## PredFan

SwimExpert said:


> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters



You push Americans too far and this is what happens. More of us need to start taking a stand.


----------



## Katzndogz

If it works with these guys, we can start using it on black guys.  They go to trial,  get convicted, serve their sentence.   Then 8 to 10 years later say "we found a judge that thinks you didn't get enough time.  Back to prison you go."


----------



## Dot Com

Tipsycatlover said:


> No one finds that there is something wrong with a judge ordering additional time 8 years after the sentence was served and the men released from prison?
> 
> Not a thing wrong with that.


You don't do 30 day stints in prison drunk grl. One had a year, one had 30 days. Remember when I pointed that out to you ystrdy? They most likely did it in jail which is different for obvious reasons


----------



## Desperado

WTF when whites demonstrate it is called "Domestic Terrorism" but when Black groups like "Black LIves Matter" do it is simply a protest demonstration.


----------



## Steve_McGarrett

Old Rocks said:


> There has been a lot of nonsense on different threads here about this situation. While I don't know the Hammond's personally, I know a lot of the ranchers in that area, and the Hammond's, from all that I have read, seem little different from most of them. These are independent, hard working, and hardheaded, some would even say pigheaded, people. They have to be. The high desert gives of it lean bounty only to those that are as tough and stubborn as it is. The Hammond's are not thugs, as some have suggested, or even criminals. They come from a culture that is used to doing for themselves, because there is no one else in most of that wonderfully empty country to do for you most of the time. And, acting in that manner, they did something that was criminally stupid. And they have already served just sentences for that stupidity.
> 
> There is no reason for them to go back to jail. Were I there, I would have marched in that protest. However, that in no way justifies what Bundy and his bunch have done. They care nothing about the Hammond's, they are simply crazies trying to start bloodshed.
> 
> Originally, on their arrival in Burns, they stated that they were going to occupy the courthouse and prevent anyone from taking the Hammond's anywhere. After talking to the locals, and being told to keep their scuzzy asses out of this, it was none of their business, they changed their minds. Good thing, had they tried that, the locals would have walked all over those scuzzy asses.
> 
> So, after the march, they went down to occupy the Malhuer Game Reserve. Here I quote from the Oregonian;
> 
> Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers, and miners. He said he met Friday with 10 or so residents in Burns to try to recruit them, but they declined.
> 
> "We went to the local communities and presented it many times and to many differant people". He said. "They were not strong enough to make a stand. So many individuals across the United States and in Oregon are making this stand. We hope that they will grab onto this and realize it has been happening".
> 
> End of quote from the Oregonian.
> 
> So, it is not the locals, it is outsiders that are stirring up this trouble, could not even get 10 people from Burns to go along with them.
> 
> The Governor needs to put the National Guard around all the roads into the Refuge building, and allow nothing in or out. Post cameras, and if one of the locos points a gun at any Natonal Guardsman or law officer, he faces assualt with a deadly charges when this is over. And, when they finally have to come out, all their vehicles and weapons are seized, and they are arrested for criminal trespass. And if there is damage to anything in that building, or the building itself, they face charges for that.
> 
> All their weapons should be seized and destroyed, also. This kind of thing need to come to an end.


These men will be equal to the men that fought and died at the Alamo. They'll face superior odds, but I feel they will unite everyone who loves what we stand for.


----------



## PredFan

DaGoose said:


> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
Click to expand...


Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.


----------



## SwimExpert

boedicca said:


> Of course the OP and his Prog Hack Comrades immediately start spinning the terrorist narrative.
> 
> The real terrorists are government bureaucrats who shred The Constitution.





There are no "government bureaucrats who shred the constitution" involved in this situation.

Terrorist acts commit or threaten violence in pursuit of influencing government action.  And you have the ovaries to say that _I'm_ the one "spinning the terrorist" narrative, all in the same breath that you label people as terrorists simply because they have a different political view than yourself?


----------



## tinydancer

SwimExpert said:


> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters



And? 

In the 60's we rocked. What's the problem? 

Just because it's a cause you don't like?


----------



## tinydancer

This could get really funny.


----------



## SwimExpert

tinydancer said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And?
> 
> In the 60's we rocked. What's the problem?
> 
> Just because it's a cause you don't like?
Click to expand...




If you're referring to the Hammond controversy, you need to take a look at this thread to see my feelings on that.

Now, get your terroristic Canadian ass out of here.


----------



## mikegriffith1

Swim Expert, we should deport you to ISIStan and let you see what real terrorists look like. Some ranchers who go a bit too far in protesting federal land grabbing by occupying a federal facility are not "terrorists." Where did the federal government get off grabbing all that land in the first place? Huh? Most of that land should be given back to the people and put to productive use.


----------



## Stephanie

Mad Scientist said:


> Occupying public property is now terrorism. Unless you're left-wing, then it's "social justice" (Occupy Wall Street).



well of course. we have to remember that double standard. this public property was stolen by the Guberment so it will be classified as , Terrorism


----------



## J.E.D

PredFan said:


> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
Click to expand...

Looking for handouts again?


----------



## J.E.D

I hope the government doesn't back down. You raise a firearm at federal officers on federal land, you should get shot.


----------



## DaGoose

J.E.D said:


> I hope the government doesn't back down. You raise a firearm at federal officers on federal land, you should get shot.



Like conservative hero and icon G. Gordon Liddy once famously said...."_Now if the __Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms__ comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing __bulletproof vests__." … "They've got a big target on there, ATF. Don't shoot at that, because they've got a vest on underneath that. Head shots, head shots.... Kill the sons of bitches"_


----------



## Brain357

DaGoose said:


> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
Click to expand...


Sounds like a bunch of whining white guys who want to be able to break the law with no consequences.   And they are tying up the fbi when they should be trying to stop terrorists.


----------



## Old Rocks

Goddammit, the ranchers of Harney County had absolutely nothing to do with seizing that building on the Malhuer Game Refuge. Nobody from Burns or Harney County wanted anything to do with that action, it was the outsiders that did that. Ammon Bundy tried to recruit people in that county for his insane dreams of bloodshed, and nobody would go along.

The militia, each and everyone there, should be arrested and prosecuted for criminal trespass, and their vehicles and weapons seized. The vehicles should be sold to cover costs, and the weapons destroyed.


----------



## SassyIrishLass

Old Rocks said:


> The militia, each and everyone there, should be arrested and prosecuted for criminal trespass, and their vehicles and weapons seized. The vehicles should be sold to cover costs, and the weapons destroyed.



About how I feel about the Black Lives Bowel Movement


----------



## Old Rocks

tinydancer said:


> This could get really funny.


It would have gotten really funny had they tried to seize something in Burns. The locals their would have taken their scuzzy asses out of whatever they seized and stomped them proper. They do not like outside trouble makers in that country. A bunch of neo-nazis tried to move in the county just north of Harney, Grant county, and practically the whole county turned out to tell them to go to hell.


----------



## Old Rocks

PredFan said:


> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
Click to expand...

Another welfare case looking for something for free. LOL


----------



## Old Rocks

Stephanie said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupying public property is now terrorism. Unless you're left-wing, then it's "social justice" (Occupy Wall Street).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well of course. we have to remember that double standard. this public property was stolen by the Guberment so it will be classified as , Terrorism
Click to expand...

What a lying little bitch you are. That property was the governments from the start. The only people prior to that that might have had a claim on it are the Piute Indians. And now it is closed to the public, the people that own it, because we have a bunch of blood thirsty idiots squatting on it. There are none of the locals there, they told the whackos they wanted no part of their insanity. Even the Hammond's told them that. But the goofballs went ahead and occupied the Malhuer buildings because they were told that if they tried that in Burns, the locals were going to stomp their scuzzy asses.


----------



## Old Rocks

Steve_McGarrett said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has been a lot of nonsense on different threads here about this situation. While I don't know the Hammond's personally, I know a lot of the ranchers in that area, and the Hammond's, from all that I have read, seem little different from most of them. These are independent, hard working, and hardheaded, some would even say pigheaded, people. They have to be. The high desert gives of it lean bounty only to those that are as tough and stubborn as it is. The Hammond's are not thugs, as some have suggested, or even criminals. They come from a culture that is used to doing for themselves, because there is no one else in most of that wonderfully empty country to do for you most of the time. And, acting in that manner, they did something that was criminally stupid. And they have already served just sentences for that stupidity.
> 
> There is no reason for them to go back to jail. Were I there, I would have marched in that protest. However, that in no way justifies what Bundy and his bunch have done. They care nothing about the Hammond's, they are simply crazies trying to start bloodshed.
> 
> Originally, on their arrival in Burns, they stated that they were going to occupy the courthouse and prevent anyone from taking the Hammond's anywhere. After talking to the locals, and being told to keep their scuzzy asses out of this, it was none of their business, they changed their minds. Good thing, had they tried that, the locals would have walked all over those scuzzy asses.
> 
> So, after the march, they went down to occupy the Malhuer Game Reserve. Here I quote from the Oregonian;
> 
> Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers, and miners. He said he met Friday with 10 or so residents in Burns to try to recruit them, but they declined.
> 
> "We went to the local communities and presented it many times and to many differant people". He said. "They were not strong enough to make a stand. So many individuals across the United States and in Oregon are making this stand. We hope that they will grab onto this and realize it has been happening".
> 
> End of quote from the Oregonian.
> 
> So, it is not the locals, it is outsiders that are stirring up this trouble, could not even get 10 people from Burns to go along with them.
> 
> The Governor needs to put the National Guard around all the roads into the Refuge building, and allow nothing in or out. Post cameras, and if one of the locos points a gun at any Natonal Guardsman or law officer, he faces assualt with a deadly charges when this is over. And, when they finally have to come out, all their vehicles and weapons are seized, and they are arrested for criminal trespass. And if there is damage to anything in that building, or the building itself, they face charges for that.
> 
> All their weapons should be seized and destroyed, also. This kind of thing need to come to an end.
> 
> 
> 
> These men will be equal to the men that fought and died at the Alamo. They'll face superior odds, but I feel they will unite everyone who loves what we stand for.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, what you stand for. Idiocy and bigotry. Stupidity and senseless bloodshed. Lawlessness and theft.


----------



## peach174

Brain357 said:


> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like a bunch of whining white guys who want to be able to break the law with no consequences.   And they are tying up the fbi when they should be trying to stop terrorists.
Click to expand...



The Government has labeled the rancher as a terrorist. He did his time for that and the Government wants him to do a longer sentence. That is Government abuse.

Why is it OK for a bunch of whining Black guys (Black lives matter) who want to be able to break the law with no consequences, but not a bunch of whining white guys? as you put it.

Lets face it.
Our Government has become an abusive overreacting tyrant.


----------



## peach174

Old Rocks said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupying public property is now terrorism. Unless you're left-wing, then it's "social justice" (Occupy Wall Street).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well of course. we have to remember that double standard. this public property was stolen by the Guberment so it will be classified as , Terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a lying little bitch you are. That property was the governments from the start. The only people prior to that that might have had a claim on it are the Piute Indians. And now it is closed to the public, the people that own it, because we have a bunch of blood thirsty idiots squatting on it. There are none of the locals there, they told the whackos they wanted no part of their insanity. Even the Hammond's told them that. But the goofballs went ahead and occupied the Malhuer buildings because they were told that if they tried that in Burns, the locals were going to stomp their scuzzy asses.
Click to expand...



Yet a bunch of outsiders came in and tried to get rid of Gov. Scott over the will of the majority of locals.


----------



## Old Rocks

Did you bother to read what I wrote concerning how I felt about the charge of terrorism? 

That in no way excuses what the militia has done. Those people were told by the people involved to stay out of it, they were not and are not wanted there. They are outsiders interfering in something that will be settled peacefully. All the militia wants is to start blood shed.


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupying public property is now terrorism. Unless you're left-wing, then it's "social justice" (Occupy Wall Street).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well of course. we have to remember that double standard. this public property was stolen by the Guberment so it will be classified as , Terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a lying little bitch you are. That property was the governments from the start. The only people prior to that that might have had a claim on it are the Piute Indians. And now it is closed to the public, the people that own it, because we have a bunch of blood thirsty idiots squatting on it. There are none of the locals there, they told the whackos they wanted no part of their insanity. Even the Hammond's told them that. But the goofballs went ahead and occupied the Malhuer buildings because they were told that if they tried that in Burns, the locals were going to stomp their scuzzy asses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet a bunch of outsiders came in and tried to get rid of Gov. Scott over the will of the majority of locals.
Click to expand...

Don't know who you are, and don't give a damn. This is not about Gov. Scott, or anybody else. This is a matter concerning a ranch family in Harney County, Oregon, and the people of Harney County don't want these damned blood thirsty idiots there, or anywhere near there.


----------



## Wildman

Mr Clean said:


> *They* ain't got a hair on their ass if they don't start shooting.



*"They" *?? Gvmt. thugs ???


----------



## Wildman

jknowgood said:


> *It may take his first four years,*



*how about first FOUR (4) hours...? *


----------



## SwimExpert

mikegriffith1 said:


> Swim Expert, we should deport you to ISIStan and let you see what real terrorists look like. Some ranchers who go a bit too far in protesting federal land grabbing by occupying a federal facility are not "terrorists." Where did the federal government get off grabbing all that land in the first place? Huh? Most of that land should be given back to the people and put to productive use.





Thank you for confirming that terrorism is only done by brown skinned people with funny sounding names.


----------



## Old Rocks

No, the 'government', whether you mean local, state, or federal, has not acted thuggish in any manner. The militia, on the other hand, has. There was no government presence at the protest march in Burns, for everyone knew it would be peaceful. The people of Harney County wanted a peaceful march, and the militia knew full well that if they tried to start something, the locals would stomp their scuzzy asses. 

That is why the militia went 50 miles south to occupy an unoccupied building.


----------



## Old Rocks

Wildman said:


> jknowgood said:
> 
> 
> 
> *It may take his first four years,*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *how about first FOUR (4) hours...? *
Click to expand...

Now why don't you just go down there and join the other miscreants at the Refuge? Show what a man you are.


----------



## Old Rocks

Yes, really funny that these whackos don't consider threatoning the local sheriff with death, and bullying the local people in Burns with guns to be a form of terrorism. And they wonder why they could not get any locals to help them. I hope when they come up for trial on multiple charges that they have jurors from that county judging them.


----------



## ClosedCaption

Tipsycatlover said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
Click to expand...


Especially when they're white....the bar is really high for them.  The KKK is still not listed as a terrorist org because of all the good they've done in the community /sarcasm


----------



## jon_berzerk

SwimExpert said:


> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.



so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well


----------



## HappyJoy

So, it looks like the patriots here can't make the event because either it's just going to take too gosh darn long to get there (though the militia stated they will be there for a long time) or is short on cash for transportation.  Meh, I guess they can't be bothered.  

ISIS is not impressed.


----------



## Old Rocks

Care to link to any anti-police protest in Harney County?


----------



## Old Rocks

These 'patriots' might be a little discouraged when they look at the weather there. Also the fact that in the 50 miles there is damned little between there and Burns. Kind of hard to find a place to get a few six packs out there.


----------



## Dot Com

Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison


----------



## HappyJoy

Old Rocks said:


> These 'patriots' might be a little discouraged when they look at the weather there. Also the fact that in the 50 miles there is damned little between there and Burns. Kind of hard to find a place to get a few six packs out there.



They're probably going to need to bring their own toilet paper too.  These things add up people!


----------



## Interpol

This Cowpuncher Caliphate is good for a few laughs and perfect fodder for the next Coen Bros. movie, but I don't think they can be classified as terrorists, not yet anyway. 

It is merely armed sedition at this point, and perhaps some kind of felony charge for busting in taking over a building that belongs to everyone in that state, not the out-of-staters who've decided to take it.


----------



## Old Rocks

Now I feel that the additional time given the Hammond's is wrong, and I hope that they win their freedom, and are compensated for the trouble. But that in no way makes up for what these dingbat people are doing down at the Refuge. One other point, that is a game refuge. If the assholes start shooting any of the animals or birds down there, they need to be given the maximum for poaching and destruction of government property. Consectutive terms, not concurrent.


----------



## peach174

What our Government did was they retried him for a crime already served and did a new trial without a jury on a different charge. 
What they did is illegal, but they think they can get away with it because they are the powers that be.


----------



## peach174

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupying public property is now terrorism. Unless you're left-wing, then it's "social justice" (Occupy Wall Street).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well of course. we have to remember that double standard. this public property was stolen by the Guberment so it will be classified as , Terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a lying little bitch you are. That property was the governments from the start. The only people prior to that that might have had a claim on it are the Piute Indians. And now it is closed to the public, the people that own it, because we have a bunch of blood thirsty idiots squatting on it. There are none of the locals there, they told the whackos they wanted no part of their insanity. Even the Hammond's told them that. But the goofballs went ahead and occupied the Malhuer buildings because they were told that if they tried that in Burns, the locals were going to stomp their scuzzy asses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet a bunch of outsiders came in and tried to get rid of Gov. Scott over the will of the majority of locals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't know who you are, and don't give a damn. This is not about Gov. Scott, or anybody else. This is a matter concerning a ranch family in Harney County, Oregon, and the people of Harney County don't want these damned blood thirsty idiots there, or anywhere near there.
Click to expand...



My point was that people come in from other areas all the time to interfere with local political issues.
I think local politics should stay with the locals. Not outsiders.


----------



## Old Rocks

Maybe they will get away with charging them with terrorism. The law was written poorly enough that they might make it stick, but I am sure that this will be taken all the way to the Supreme Court unless the Feds back down.


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupying public property is now terrorism. Unless you're left-wing, then it's "social justice" (Occupy Wall Street).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well of course. we have to remember that double standard. this public property was stolen by the Guberment so it will be classified as , Terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a lying little bitch you are. That property was the governments from the start. The only people prior to that that might have had a claim on it are the Piute Indians. And now it is closed to the public, the people that own it, because we have a bunch of blood thirsty idiots squatting on it. There are none of the locals there, they told the whackos they wanted no part of their insanity. Even the Hammond's told them that. But the goofballs went ahead and occupied the Malhuer buildings because they were told that if they tried that in Burns, the locals were going to stomp their scuzzy asses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet a bunch of outsiders came in and tried to get rid of Gov. Scott over the will of the majority of locals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't know who you are, and don't give a damn. This is not about Gov. Scott, or anybody else. This is a matter concerning a ranch family in Harney County, Oregon, and the people of Harney County don't want these damned blood thirsty idiots there, or anywhere near there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> My point was that people come in from other areas all the time to interfere with local political issues.
> I think local politics should stay with the locals. Not outsiders.
Click to expand...

They came in with guns, and the first people they aggressed were local people in Burns. They are not wanted there, and best leave quickly. If they can. A number of serious laws have already been broken by their actions.


----------



## Brain357

peach174 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like a bunch of whining white guys who want to be able to break the law with no consequences.   And they are tying up the fbi when they should be trying to stop terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Government has labeled the rancher as a terrorist. He did his time for that and the Government wants him to do a longer sentence. That is Government abuse.
> 
> Why is it OK for a bunch of whining Black guys (Black lives matter) who want to be able to break the law with no consequences, but not a bunch of whining white guys? as you put it.
> 
> Lets face it.
> Our Government has become an abusive overreacting tyrant.
Click to expand...


I dont like black lives matter either for the same reason.  Our government is not a tyrant.  The laws are clear and easy to follow.  It's criminals who have the problem with the government.  Don't break the law and you are fine.  Go someplace with a real tyrant and learn.


----------



## whitehall

Maybe most low information lefties failed English 101 which is why they fail to understand the difference between domestic terrorism and and the 1st Amendment. It's easy if you look at rationally. College professor and democrat party guru Bill Ayers was a domestic terrorist. His wife was a domestic terrorist. Those Russians who set off bombs at the Boston Marathon are domestic and international terrorists. People who make bombs are terrorists. College kids who occupy a building aren't terrorists, OWS thugs who occupy a park may be junkie rapists but they aren't terrorists. People who protest BLM regulations may or may not be right but they certainly aren't terrorists.


----------



## peach174

Old Rocks said:


> Maybe they will get away with charging them with terrorism. The law was written poorly enough that they might make it stick, but I am sure that this will be taken all the way to the Supreme Court unless the Feds back down.



Which is the point that the protesters are trying to do.
They got them to back down before so we will see if the Feds back down again or if it goes to the Supreme Court.
Looks like they think it will have to go the Supreme Court and why they are saying they are there for long haul.


----------



## ClosedCaption

DaGoose said:


> I am truly disappointed in the so-called "Patriots" in this forum. Obviously they don't care enough to go and help their fellow Patriots when called to do so. Here was the perfect chance to show everyone that they believe in a free America and the 2nd Amendment and what do they do? Simply sit on their asses and flap their jaws. They obviously don't have the balls to go do their Patriotic duty and are content to let their fellow Patriots twist in the wind. Bunch of chickenshit, ball-less bastards.
> 
> (Sarcasm intentional to show their do-nothing, jaw flappin hypocrisy.)




Come on man, motorized Lazy Boys are expensive.


----------



## bravoactual

Dot Com said:


> I hate domestic terrorists. HATE!!! First they commit arson and get convicted and now they illegally occupy a fed bldg. knowing the consequences.



Totally Agree.

This is nothing more than an act of RW Terrorism.  Feds should move in and arrest each and every one of asshole's.


----------



## HappyJoy

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they will get away with charging them with terrorism. The law was written poorly enough that they might make it stick, but I am sure that this will be taken all the way to the Supreme Court unless the Feds back down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is the point that the protesters are trying to do.
> They got them to back down before so we will see if the Feds back down again or if it goes to the Supreme Court.
> Looks like they think it will have to go the Supreme Court and why they are saying they are there for long haul.
Click to expand...


Do they have the right to shoot anyone who attempts to arrest them?


----------



## peach174

Brain357 said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like a bunch of whining white guys who want to be able to break the law with no consequences.   And they are tying up the fbi when they should be trying to stop terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Government has labeled the rancher as a terrorist. He did his time for that and the Government wants him to do a longer sentence. That is Government abuse.
> 
> Why is it OK for a bunch of whining Black guys (Black lives matter) who want to be able to break the law with no consequences, but not a bunch of whining white guys? as you put it.
> 
> Lets face it.
> Our Government has become an abusive overreacting tyrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I dont like black lives matter either for the same reason.  Our government is not a tyrant.  The laws are clear and easy to follow.  It's criminals who have the problem with the government.  Don't break the law and you are fine.  Go someplace with a real tyrant and learn.
Click to expand...



Then what do you call what they just did?
The retried him on a new charge without a jury.


----------



## ClosedCaption

Mad Scientist said:


> Occupying public property is now terrorism. Unless you're left-wing, then it's "social justice" (Occupy Wall Street).



Yeah, the guns and threats are just a formality.


----------



## peach174

HappyJoy said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they will get away with charging them with terrorism. The law was written poorly enough that they might make it stick, but I am sure that this will be taken all the way to the Supreme Court unless the Feds back down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is the point that the protesters are trying to do.
> They got them to back down before so we will see if the Feds back down again or if it goes to the Supreme Court.
> Looks like they think it will have to go the Supreme Court and why they are saying they are there for long haul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do they have the right to shoot anyone who attempts to arrest them?
Click to expand...



They didn't before why would they now?


----------



## Dot Com

Old Rocks said:


> Now I feel that the additional time given the Hammond's is wrong, and I hope that they win their freedom, and are compensated for the trouble. But that in no way makes up for what these dingbat people are doing down at the Refuge. One other point, that is a game refuge. If the assholes start shooting any of the animals or birds down there, they need to be given the maximum for poaching and destruction of government property. Consectutive terms, not concurrent.


The Hammonds were also charged w/ poaching as it was suspected that they set the illegal fires to cover it up.


----------



## Dot Com

bravoactual said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hate domestic terrorists. HATE!!! First they commit arson and get convicted and now they illegally occupy a fed bldg. knowing the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally Agree.
> 
> This is nothing more than an act of RW Terrorism.  Feds should move in and arrest each and every one of asshole's.
Click to expand...

AFTER giving them the beat down of their lives  bravoactual


----------



## SwimExpert

jon_berzerk said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well
Click to expand...


Are they committing "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State?


----------



## bravoactual

Noomi said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sad thing is that if they were Muslims, they would be immediately labeled terrorists, and the building would have been stormed and the occupants shot dead by now. Instead, since its a bunch of white people, they are simply holding a 'peaceful protest' and are not terrorists at all.
Click to expand...


True that.  

This is just, a group of Armed Black Men just seized control of Federal Wildlife Management Office in Oregon.   

Take the headline from there.  The RWNJ would be calling it Terrorism with even blinking.  Throw a few Muslims into the mix and Fox Lies would be covering 24/7.

Right Wing Terrorism plain and simple.


----------



## bravoactual

Dot Com said:


> bravoactual said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hate domestic terrorists. HATE!!! First they commit arson and get convicted and now they illegally occupy a fed bldg. knowing the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally Agree.
> 
> This is nothing more than an act of RW Terrorism.  Feds should move in and arrest each and every one of asshole's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AFTER giving them the beat down of their lives  bravoactual
Click to expand...


All in the name of law and order.


----------



## jon_berzerk

SwimExpert said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they committing "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State?
Click to expand...


indeed they have 

how about the Ferguson protesters 

certainly terrorism


----------



## SwimExpert

Old Rocks said:


> Yes, really funny that these whackos don't consider threatoning the local sheriff with death, and bullying the local people in Burns with guns to be a form of terrorism. And they wonder why they could not get any locals to help them. I hope when they come up for trial on multiple charges that they have jurors from that county judging them.



If they go to trial for charges, then of course they would have jurors from that county.


----------



## HappyJoy

peach174 said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they will get away with charging them with terrorism. The law was written poorly enough that they might make it stick, but I am sure that this will be taken all the way to the Supreme Court unless the Feds back down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is the point that the protesters are trying to do.
> They got them to back down before so we will see if the Feds back down again or if it goes to the Supreme Court.
> Looks like they think it will have to go the Supreme Court and why they are saying they are there for long haul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do they have the right to shoot anyone who attempts to arrest them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They didn't before why would they now?
Click to expand...


You're not answering the question.  If they are arrested do they have the right to shoot back?  It's a simple question.


----------



## easyt65

FLASHBACK: HOW DID THIS START?

Liberal 'Criminal' Senator Harry Reid made an economic deal to use public lands, one in which he stood to make a good deal of money. The problem was that a family, that had been grazing cattle on those public lands for about 100 years, was currently grazing cattle on the land. So Reid and the Dept of Land management ordered a US citizen, part of the public, who was using the public lands, as his family had done for almost 100 years or so, so that Senator Harry Reid could go through with his personal use of public lands to make more money. The family refused to do so. They filed numerous legal briefs / suits / documents...they were at an impasse, and the rancher refused to move his cattle.

SO, the Department of Land Management sent their own private ARMY to the lands. They threatened the rancher and his family. Their snipers reportedly placed their rifle crosshairs on the heads of the ranchers wife, sons, and daughters, demonstrating they were willing to kill American citizens to take control of PUBLIC lands so Harry Reid could make a personal profit. The Department of Land Management STOLE hundreds of the man's cows he had grazing on the land and slaughtered them. (Where's PETA or those other animal rights 'terrorists' when you need them?) 

FINALLY a HUGE number of US Citizen Militia members flocked in to help the farmer. Their numbers ... and firepower... almost matched the Dept of Land management's own 'army'. (WHT TF does Land Management have an army, military vehicles, equipment, guns?)  The stand-off was widely reported. The administration had learned it's lesson from the failed WACO disaster and did NOT want the killing of Bundy's wife and kids reported and / or a 'civil war' between a militia and the Dept of Land management, so they stepped down. They took their 'toys of war' and 'murderous snipers' and went home...allowing everything to dissolve. This, as everyone knew, was not over by far.

Wisely, one of Bundy's sons was arrested away from the ranch, where there was no serious confrontation .(Which is what they should have done to the leader of the Waco compound rather than wade in and kill innocents.)  Now we have the Bundy family and more militia members supporting the family taking over government buildings in protest of what's going on.

Don't get me wrong - I believe that taking over these buildings is wrong, but the Govt pushed this family to the point where they feel they have no other option. They could go the legal right, to use the law to fight the law that is trying to (to some extent) screw them. They don't seem any way that going through the rigged legal system.

It started, however, with Harry Reid's personal deal and desire to use public lands for himself to make more money. Doesn't that greedy, self-serving millionaire POS have enough money? Does he really want 'blood', to kill, jail, or destroy a family in order to get more?!

The whole case, with the govt's abuse of power, the fact that agencies like the Dept of Land Management has it's own 'military', and how they are willing to destroy and kill families in the pursuit of their own personal gain, has proven WHT Americans need to own their own guns, WHY militia's like the one that came to the Bundy's rescue are needed. This was a definite case of the govt going out of control. People are pissed at cope for 'excessive use of force' when in this initial case our government illegally stole and slaughtered hundreds of privately owned cows because they were 'in the govt's way' and had snipers point their weapons at the heads of a rancher's wife and children's heads because they refused to surrender to the govt's will.

THAT should scare the hell out of a lot of people.

In the end, though, despite what has pushed things this far, the protestors and Bundy family will have to pay for breaking the law. I have to admit, though...in the time to come, I wonder if anyone will look back and see this as a critical, pivotal turning point, a time when instead of siding with the government we should not have all sided with this family in their opposition to a government that has become dictators, stripping more and more rights from citizens, and imposing THEIR will on the rest of us?!


----------



## SwimExpert

jon_berzerk said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they committing "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> indeed they have
> 
> how about the Ferguson protesters
> 
> certainly terrorism
Click to expand...


Are they trying to intimidate or coerce a civilian population?
Are they trying to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion?
Are they trying to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping?


----------



## ClosedCaption

jon_berzerk said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they committing "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> indeed they have
> 
> how about the Ferguson protesters
> 
> certainly terrorism
Click to expand...


Weapons or no weapons

Its all the same thing (when comparing to blacks)


----------



## SwimExpert

easyt65 said:


> FLASHBACK: HOW DID THIS START?
> 
> Liberal 'Criminal' Senator Harry Reid made an economic deal to use public lands, one in which he stood to make a good deal of money. The problem was that a family, that had been grazing cattle on those public lands for about 100 years, was currently grazing cattle on the land. So Reid and the Dept of Land management ordered a US citizen, part of the public, who was using the public lands, as his family had done for almost 100 years or so, so that Senator Harry Reid could go through with his personal use of public lands to make more money. The family refused to do so. They filed numerous legal briefs / suits / documents...they were at an impasse, and the rancher refused to move his cattle.
> 
> SO, the Department of Land Management sent their own private ARMY to the lands. They threatened the rancher and his family. Their snipers reportedly placed their rifle crosshairs on the heads of the ranchers wife, sons, and daughters, demonstrating they were willing to kill American citizens to take control of PUBLIC lands so Harry Reid could make a personal profit. The Department of Land Management STOLE hundreds of the man's cows he had grazing on the land and slaughtered them. (Where's PETA or those other animal rights 'terrorists' when you need them?)
> 
> FINALLY a HUGE number of US Citizen Militia members flocked in to help the farmer. Their numbers ... and firepower... almost matched the Dept of Land management's own 'army'. (WHT TF does Land Management have an army, military vehicles, equipment, guns?)  The stand-off was widely reported. The administration had learned it's lesson from the failed WACO disaster and did NOT want the killing of Bundy's wife and kids reported and / or a 'civil war' between a militia and the Dept of Land management, so they stepped down. They took their 'toys of war' and 'murderous snipers' and went home...allowing everything to dissolve. This, as everyone knew, was not over by far.
> 
> Wisely, one of Bundy's sons was arrested away from the ranch, where there was no serious confrontation .(Which is what they should have done to the leader of the Waco compound rather than wade in and kill innocents.)  Now we have the Bundy family and more militia members supporting the family taking over government buildings in protest of what's going on.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I believe that taking over these buildings is wrong, but the Govt pushed this family to the point where they feel they have no other option. They could go the legal right, to use the law to fight the law that is trying to (to some extent) screw them. They don't seem any way that going through the rigged legal system.
> 
> It started, however, with Harry Reid's personal deal and desire to use public lands for himself to make more money. Doesn't that greedy, self-serving millionaire POS have enough money? Does he really want 'blood', to kill, jail, or destroy a family in order to get more?!
> 
> The whole case, with the govt's abuse of power, the fact that agencies like the Dept of Land Management has it's own 'military', and how they are willing to destroy and kill families in the pursuit of their own personal gain, has proven WHT Americans need to own their own guns, WHY militia's like the one that came to the Bundy's rescue are needed. This was a definite case of the govt going out of control. People are pissed at cope for 'excessive use of force' when in this initial case our government illegally stole and slaughtered hundreds of privately owned cows because they were 'in the govt's way' and had snipers point their weapons at the heads of a rancher's wife and children's heads because they refused to surrender to the govt's will.
> 
> THAT should scare the hell out of a lot of people.
> 
> In the end, though, despite what has pushed things this far, the protestors and Bundy family will have to pay for breaking the law. I have to admit, though...in the time to come, I wonder if anyone will look back and see this as a critical, pivotal turning point, a time when instead of siding with the government we should not have all sided with this family in their opposition to a government that has become dictators, stripping more and more rights from citizens, and imposing THEIR will on the rest of us?!



*yawn*

No.


----------



## basquebromance




----------



## jon_berzerk

ClosedCaption said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they committing "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> indeed they have
> 
> how about the Ferguson protesters
> 
> certainly terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Weapons or no weapons
> 
> Its all the same thing (when comparing to blacks)
Click to expand...


are you so nutz 

that you believe that molotov cocktails  are not weapons 

besides all the gun fire and such


----------



## HappyJoy

peach174 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like a bunch of whining white guys who want to be able to break the law with no consequences.   And they are tying up the fbi when they should be trying to stop terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Government has labeled the rancher as a terrorist. He did his time for that and the Government wants him to do a longer sentence. That is Government abuse.
> 
> Why is it OK for a bunch of whining Black guys (Black lives matter) who want to be able to break the law with no consequences, but not a bunch of whining white guys? as you put it.
> 
> Lets face it.
> Our Government has become an abusive overreacting tyrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I dont like black lives matter either for the same reason.  Our government is not a tyrant.  The laws are clear and easy to follow.  It's criminals who have the problem with the government.  Don't break the law and you are fine.  Go someplace with a real tyrant and learn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then what do you call what they just did?
> The retried him on a new charge without a jury.
Click to expand...


Actually, they weren't retried. They were sentenced, the feds appealed the sentencing, won that and the Supreme court refused to hear the Hammond's case.  So, I don't see anything illegal happening to them in court.  Whether the sentence fits the crime or not that can be debated.  They set two fires, endangered others and now they are going back to prison for about 4 years.

I don't see how taking over a federal building while armed changes anything for the Hammonds who don't want them there.


----------



## peach174

Dot Com said:


> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison




That report is inaccurate in several things.
1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.


----------



## LordBrownTrout

bodecea said:


> LordBrownTrout said:
> 
> 
> 
> The libs are hankering and yearning for a janet reno bbq.
> 
> 
> 
> Naw....I'd like to see them come out wimpering and dirty and smelly from being without power and water for a while.
Click to expand...

 

Im good with that.


----------



## HappyJoy

basquebromance said:


>



That's a good one.  May be you should save it for an ant-gun thread.


----------



## jon_berzerk

SwimExpert said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they committing "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> indeed they have
> 
> how about the Ferguson protesters
> 
> certainly terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they trying to intimidate or coerce a civilian population?
> Are they trying to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion?
> Are they trying to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping?
Click to expand...


*Are they trying to intimidate or coerce a civilian population?*

yes 

*Are they trying to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion?*

yes indeed that was what it was about 

*Are they trying to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping?*

you just added that in 

they burned part of the town down which is of course mass destruction 

so according to you yes they are terrorists


----------



## ClosedCaption

easyt65 said:


> FLASHBACK: HOW DID THIS START?
> 
> Liberal 'Criminal' Senator Harry Reid



Thats not how they started breaking the law.  Your statement needs to show how they viola


jon_berzerk said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they committing "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> indeed they have
> 
> how about the Ferguson protesters
> 
> certainly terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Weapons or no weapons
> 
> Its all the same thing (when comparing to blacks)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you so nutz
> 
> that you believe that molotov cocktails  are not weapons
> 
> besides all the gun fire and such
Click to expand...


I bet you're saying Molotov cocktails because some black guy had the nerve to have a beverage...which using white boy fear of blacks means it COULDVE been a Molotov cocktail. Or a stabbing device...not a drink


----------



## jon_berzerk

peach174 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
Click to expand...


i am going t have to read about this 

thanks


----------



## peach174

HappyJoy said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a bunch of whining white guys who want to be able to break the law with no consequences.   And they are tying up the fbi when they should be trying to stop terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Government has labeled the rancher as a terrorist. He did his time for that and the Government wants him to do a longer sentence. That is Government abuse.
> 
> Why is it OK for a bunch of whining Black guys (Black lives matter) who want to be able to break the law with no consequences, but not a bunch of whining white guys? as you put it.
> 
> Lets face it.
> Our Government has become an abusive overreacting tyrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I dont like black lives matter either for the same reason.  Our government is not a tyrant.  The laws are clear and easy to follow.  It's criminals who have the problem with the government.  Don't break the law and you are fine.  Go someplace with a real tyrant and learn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then what do you call what they just did?
> The retried him on a new charge without a jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they weren't retried. They were sentenced, the feds appealed the sentencing, won that and the Supreme court refused to hear the Hammond's case.  So, I don't see anything illegal happening to them in court.  Whether the sentence fits the crime or not that can be debated.  They set two fires, endangered others and now they are going back to prison for about 4 years.
> 
> I don't see how taking over a federal building while armed changes anything for the Hammonds who don't want them there.
Click to expand...



They had permission to do the burn it got out of hand.


----------



## HappyJoy

peach174 said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a bunch of whining white guys who want to be able to break the law with no consequences.   And they are tying up the fbi when they should be trying to stop terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Government has labeled the rancher as a terrorist. He did his time for that and the Government wants him to do a longer sentence. That is Government abuse.
> 
> Why is it OK for a bunch of whining Black guys (Black lives matter) who want to be able to break the law with no consequences, but not a bunch of whining white guys? as you put it.
> 
> Lets face it.
> Our Government has become an abusive overreacting tyrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I dont like black lives matter either for the same reason.  Our government is not a tyrant.  The laws are clear and easy to follow.  It's criminals who have the problem with the government.  Don't break the law and you are fine.  Go someplace with a real tyrant and learn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then what do you call what they just did?
> The retried him on a new charge without a jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they weren't retried. They were sentenced, the feds appealed the sentencing, won that and the Supreme court refused to hear the Hammond's case.  So, I don't see anything illegal happening to them in court.  Whether the sentence fits the crime or not that can be debated.  They set two fires, endangered others and now they are going back to prison for about 4 years.
> 
> I don't see how taking over a federal building while armed changes anything for the Hammonds who don't want them there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They had permission to do the burn it got out of hand.
Click to expand...


Apparently not because they lost their case and were found guilty. By a jury no doubt...isn't that one of the things you were bitching about?  They were retried without a jury (which is a lie)?


----------



## SwimExpert

jon_berzerk said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they committing "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> indeed they have
> 
> how about the Ferguson protesters
> 
> certainly terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they trying to intimidate or coerce a civilian population?
> Are they trying to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion?
> Are they trying to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Are they trying to intimidate or coerce a civilian population?*
> 
> yes
> 
> *Are they trying to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion?*
> 
> yes indeed that was what it was about
> 
> *Are they trying to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping?*
> 
> you just added that in
> 
> they burned part of the town down which is of course mass destruction
> 
> so according to you yes they are terrorists
Click to expand...


So it seems to me like it's simple math.  Not sure why you needed assistance with it.


----------



## Freewill

Once again i point out the hypocrisy of the liberal left.  To the left Occupy Wall Street was a righteous group fighting the man.  But this group, who has done what many groups before them have done, the left is ready to go to war, or more to the point ready to execute those who have a grievance against the government.  Because, as usual, the left does not agree with there grievance.


----------



## bravoactual

Where are the demands for the profiling of White, Christian Gun Owing Conservatives?

None of these nitwits are Muslim.

None of these butt wads are from Syria.

This is an act of terrorism and these beer belly good old boys should be arrested.


----------



## Brain357

peach174 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like a bunch of whining white guys who want to be able to break the law with no consequences.   And they are tying up the fbi when they should be trying to stop terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The Government has labeled the rancher as a terrorist. He did his time for that and the Government wants him to do a longer sentence. That is Government abuse.
> 
> Why is it OK for a bunch of whining Black guys (Black lives matter) who want to be able to break the law with no consequences, but not a bunch of whining white guys? as you put it.
> 
> Lets face it.
> Our Government has become an abusive overreacting tyrant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I dont like black lives matter either for the same reason.  Our government is not a tyrant.  The laws are clear and easy to follow.  It's criminals who have the problem with the government.  Don't break the law and you are fine.  Go someplace with a real tyrant and learn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then what do you call what they just did?
> The retried him on a new charge without a jury.
Click to expand...


He shouldn't have committed the crime.  These people are supporting criminals.  No different than black lives matters.  And they are taking the FBI away from finding terrorists.  They should all be jailed.


----------



## mdk

Sitting around all day in Bunkerville and talking about how the government of United States  doesn't exist costs money. I am assuming the donations started drying up so they decided to move the act to Malheur National Refuge. It is a publicity stunt for money, and nothing more.

That being said, the amount of the land the federal government owns in the West is staggering and is an issue that the states need to address.


----------



## Freewill

SwimExpert said:


> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.



So you agree that if occupy Wall Street pulled the crap they pulled a number of years ago you would have them picked up by the police as domestic terrorists?  If the Salem march happened today, you would have them arrested for domestic terrorism?  What the hell is wrong with you people don'y you understand the logical outcome of the pure vitriol hate you spew?


----------



## SwimExpert

Freewill said:


> Once again i point out the hypocrisy of the liberal left.  To the left Occupy Wall Street was a righteous group fighting the man.  But this group, who has done what many groups before them have done, the left is ready to go to war, or more to the point ready to execute those who have a grievance against the government.  Because, as usual, the left does not agree with there grievance.



What the fuck?

Stop changing the subject, OWS has nothing to do with this.  Not even comparable.


----------



## SwimExpert

Freewill said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you agree that if occupy Wall Street pulled the crap they pulled a number of years ago you would have them picked up by the police as domestic terrorists?  If the Salem march happened today, you would have them arrested for domestic terrorism?  What the hell is wrong with you people don'y you understand the logical outcome of the pure vitriol hate you spew?
Click to expand...


Why the fuck are you talking about OWS?  There is nothing even comparable here to that mess.


----------



## ClosedCaption

bravoactual said:


> Where are the demands for the profiling of White, Christian Gun Owing Conservatives?
> 
> None of these nitwits are Muslim.
> 
> None of these butt wads are from Syria.
> 
> This is an act of terrorism and these beer belly good old boys should be arrested.



Terrorism is only when a brown person does something.  White boys doing the same thing only brings out the wheel of "Its different" they like to spin


----------



## Freewill

bravoactual said:


> Where are the demands for the profiling of White, Christian Gun Owing Conservatives?
> 
> None of these nitwits are Muslim.
> 
> None of these butt wads are from Syria.
> 
> This is an act of terrorism and these beer belly good old boys should be arrested.



They are acting in a fashion that the left wing has used many times. There has been no violence so what are you basing the "terrorist" charge upon?  Nothing that is what you are only trying to spread more division and strife.  In my opinion the left wing has become the new terrorist group that needs watched.  See how it works?


----------



## Freewill

SwimExpert said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you agree that if occupy Wall Street pulled the crap they pulled a number of years ago you would have them picked up by the police as domestic terrorists?  If the Salem march happened today, you would have them arrested for domestic terrorism?  What the hell is wrong with you people don'y you understand the logical outcome of the pure vitriol hate you spew?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why the fuck are you talking about OWS?  There is nothing even comparable here to that mess.
Click to expand...


WTF, do you even know what you are talking about?  Do your even read the news or do you just react to sound bites?  OWS was not the same it was MUCH WORSE then a dispute over land rights. The left wing LOVED OWS now you don't think peaceful protest is something to be condemned.


----------



## SwimExpert

Freewill said:


> bravoactual said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the demands for the profiling of White, Christian Gun Owing Conservatives?
> 
> None of these nitwits are Muslim.
> 
> None of these butt wads are from Syria.
> 
> This is an act of terrorism and these beer belly good old boys should be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are acting in a fashion that the left wing has used many times. There has been no violence so what are you basing the "terrorist" charge upon?  Nothing that is what you are only trying to spread more division and strife.  In my opinion the left wing has become the new terrorist group that needs watched.  See how it works?
Click to expand...


Self deluded morons like you are the reason why liberals get away with so much in this country.  You fancy yourself a conservative.  Really, you're just a maggot feeding on our tossed out garbage.


----------



## Soggy in NOLA

SwimExpert said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
Click to expand...


In case you haven't noticed, that's what the terrorists today look like by and large.


----------



## Freewill

ClosedCaption said:


> bravoactual said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the demands for the profiling of White, Christian Gun Owing Conservatives?
> 
> None of these nitwits are Muslim.
> 
> None of these butt wads are from Syria.
> 
> This is an act of terrorism and these beer belly good old boys should be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is only when a brown person does something.  White boys doing the same thing only brings out the wheel of "Its different" they like to spin
Click to expand...


Terrorism is only when a white person does something.  Liberals doing the same thing only brings out the wheel of "its different" they like spin.

That and you and your point are both f...king stupid.


----------



## Freewill

SwimExpert said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bravoactual said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the demands for the profiling of White, Christian Gun Owing Conservatives?
> 
> None of these nitwits are Muslim.
> 
> None of these butt wads are from Syria.
> 
> This is an act of terrorism and these beer belly good old boys should be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are acting in a fashion that the left wing has used many times. There has been no violence so what are you basing the "terrorist" charge upon?  Nothing that is what you are only trying to spread more division and strife.  In my opinion the left wing has become the new terrorist group that needs watched.  See how it works?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Self deluded morons like you are the reason why liberals get away with so much in this country.  You fancy yourself a conservative.  Really, you're just a maggot feeding on our tossed out garbage.
Click to expand...


Wow how to win an argument.

Just insult and post idiotic crap.  Great job.


----------



## ClosedCaption

Freewill said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bravoactual said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the demands for the profiling of White, Christian Gun Owing Conservatives?
> 
> None of these nitwits are Muslim.
> 
> None of these butt wads are from Syria.
> 
> This is an act of terrorism and these beer belly good old boys should be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is only when a brown person does something.  White boys doing the same thing only brings out the wheel of "Its different" they like to spin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Terrorism is only when a white person does something.  Liberals doing the same thing only brings out the wheel of "its different" they like spin.
> 
> That and you and your point are both f...king stupid.
Click to expand...


Aww, if I wanted my own come back I wouldve wiped it off your chin


----------



## SwimExpert

Freewill said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I re-read it, and there is no such sliver of redeeming technicality.
> 
> _Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which: "(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; (B) *appear to be intended*— (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii)* to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion*; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."_
> 
> This satisfies that criteria fully.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you agree that if occupy Wall Street pulled the crap they pulled a number of years ago you would have them picked up by the police as domestic terrorists?  If the Salem march happened today, you would have them arrested for domestic terrorism?  What the hell is wrong with you people don'y you understand the logical outcome of the pure vitriol hate you spew?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why the fuck are you talking about OWS?  There is nothing even comparable here to that mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTF, do you even know what you are talking about?  Do your even read the news or do you just react to sound bites?  OWS was not the same it was MUCH WORSE then a dispute over land rights. The left wing LOVED OWS now you don't think peaceful protest is something to be condemned.
Click to expand...


Listen, if you want to talk about a [vaguely] peacefully assembled collection of people demonstrating in public spaces, or the shit-show that went along with it, go ahead and start a thread about it.  You'll probably see me make an appearance to talk about how much of a shit-show it was.

But here we're talking about an armed militia who have seized a federal facility, seemingly are attempting to claim ownership of federal land, and are threatening to use force to resist prevent government business, all because they hate the United States government.  Entirely different shit-show here.


----------



## SwimExpert

Soggy in NOLA said:


> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?



In case you haven't noticed, that's what the terrorists today look like by and large.[/QUOTE]

Of course.  Terrorism is, by definition, an act committed by brown skinned people with funny sounding names.


----------



## konradv

strollingbones said:


> are you serious?


/sarcasm


----------



## bravoactual

Freewill said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bravoactual said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the demands for the profiling of White, Christian Gun Owing Conservatives?
> 
> None of these nitwits are Muslim.
> 
> None of these butt wads are from Syria.
> 
> This is an act of terrorism and these beer belly good old boys should be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are acting in a fashion that the left wing has used many times. There has been no violence so what are you basing the "terrorist" charge upon?  Nothing that is what you are only trying to spread more division and strife.  In my opinion the left wing has become the new terrorist group that needs watched.  See how it works?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Self deluded morons like you are the reason why liberals get away with so much in this country.  You fancy yourself a conservative.  Really, you're just a maggot feeding on our tossed out garbage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow how to win an argument.
> 
> Just insult and post idiotic crap.  Great job.
Click to expand...


You have the the RWNJ responses to my posts?  

Oh only RWNJ can use insults right?

If a groups of Armed African-American Muslims had seized this building you would be up in freaking arms over it and you know it.


----------



## bravoactual

ClosedCaption said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bravoactual said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the demands for the profiling of White, Christian Gun Owing Conservatives?
> 
> None of these nitwits are Muslim.
> 
> None of these butt wads are from Syria.
> 
> This is an act of terrorism and these beer belly good old boys should be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is only when a brown person does something.  White boys doing the same thing only brings out the wheel of "Its different" they like to spin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Terrorism is only when a white person does something.  Liberals doing the same thing only brings out the wheel of "its different" they like spin.
> 
> That and you and your point are both f...king stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aww, if I wanted my own come back I wouldve wiped it off your chin
Click to expand...


How cute.

Has your intelligence ever risen abot


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
Click to expand...

that is their claim. another is that they intentionally set the fire on federal land to cover up a family poaching outing.


> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.


well that's not true.


----------



## ClosedCaption

bravoactual said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bravoactual said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the demands for the profiling of White, Christian Gun Owing Conservatives?
> 
> None of these nitwits are Muslim.
> 
> None of these butt wads are from Syria.
> 
> This is an act of terrorism and these beer belly good old boys should be arrested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorism is only when a brown person does something.  White boys doing the same thing only brings out the wheel of "Its different" they like to spin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Terrorism is only when a white person does something.  Liberals doing the same thing only brings out the wheel of "its different" they like spin.
> 
> That and you and your point are both f...king stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aww, if I wanted my own come back I wouldve wiped it off your chin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How cute.
> 
> *Has your intelligence ever risen abot*
Click to expand...


^^You're asking about intelligence?


----------



## Dot Com

peach174 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
Click to expand...

too lazy for a link that ISNT BREITBART, CNSNEWS, WSJ, or DAILY CALLER?


----------



## bravoactual

Armed White Men = Good.

Armed Black Men = Bad.


----------



## Brain357

I'm not sure they are terrorists, but they are an armed gang that should be jailed.


----------



## peach174

jon_berzerk said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i am going t have to read about this
> 
> thanks
Click to expand...


They won the 1st round. I hope they win this 2nd round.
Here is the Bundy's account to start with, check out their side vs Governments side and the misreports on the news about it. Then conduct your own research on it.
This is mainly about the Feds wanting to own more of the land.
Like they don't have enough of as it is.
Bundy Ranch
These people are not terrorists.
They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.


----------



## bravoactual




----------



## paulitician

They white folks? If so, they dead. If they were African Americans or Illegals, Hussein would have already sent em their White House invites.


----------



## peach174

bravoactual said:


>





That was not a water gun it was a pellet gun and he was threatening everyone with it.
Real Guns and they have not aimed them at anyone.


----------



## SwimExpert

peach174 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
Click to expand...


From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.

I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.

All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*

There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.


----------



## basquebromance

HappyJoy said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good one.  May be you should save it for an ant-gun thread.
Click to expand...


YOU DARE DEFY MY WHIMS?!


----------



## ogibillm

SwimExpert said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
Click to expand...

the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence


----------



## paulitician

Of course they 'Terrorists.' They white, no? Hussein say only white folks can be Terrorists. Gawd, Obamabots are so predictable and lame.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## ogibillm

paulitician said:


> Obamabots are so predictable and lame.


especially when you just make up their responses.


----------



## paulitician

Remember folks, Big Brother wants it all. He's not your friend. One day, every square inch of America will be owned by the Government and Corporations. Bet on that.


----------



## SwimExpert

peach174 said:


> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.



*They don't even fucking live there!*

You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.


----------



## IlarMeilyr

SwimExpert said:


> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters



They are not terrorists in an world where words retain actual meaning.

They may be criminal.  Maybe.

But that's not a synonym for "terrorist" even IF they do qualify as "criminals."


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
Click to expand...



He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?


----------



## paulitician

They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.


----------



## peach174

SwimExpert said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
Click to expand...



You are the one who believes they are terrorists.
All they did was start a backfire that saved their land.


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
> Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?
Click to expand...

minimum mandatory sentences are constitutional. ignoring them is not.


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who believes they are terrorists.
> All they did was start a backfire that saved their land.
Click to expand...

they broke the law to cover up a crime

AND THE HAMMONDS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TERRORISTS IN THE REFUGE BUILDING


----------



## paulitician

peach174 said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who believes they are terrorists.
> All they did was start a backfire that saved their land.
Click to expand...


They white, they got guns. Case Closed for Communist Obamabot wingnuts.


----------



## Brain357

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
> Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?
Click to expand...


Guilty of arson.


----------



## Steve_McGarrett

Old Rocks said:


> Steve_McGarrett said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has been a lot of nonsense on different threads here about this situation. While I don't know the Hammond's personally, I know a lot of the ranchers in that area, and the Hammond's, from all that I have read, seem little different from most of them. These are independent, hard working, and hardheaded, some would even say pigheaded, people. They have to be. The high desert gives of it lean bounty only to those that are as tough and stubborn as it is. The Hammond's are not thugs, as some have suggested, or even criminals. They come from a culture that is used to doing for themselves, because there is no one else in most of that wonderfully empty country to do for you most of the time. And, acting in that manner, they did something that was criminally stupid. And they have already served just sentences for that stupidity.
> 
> There is no reason for them to go back to jail. Were I there, I would have marched in that protest. However, that in no way justifies what Bundy and his bunch have done. They care nothing about the Hammond's, they are simply crazies trying to start bloodshed.
> 
> Originally, on their arrival in Burns, they stated that they were going to occupy the courthouse and prevent anyone from taking the Hammond's anywhere. After talking to the locals, and being told to keep their scuzzy asses out of this, it was none of their business, they changed their minds. Good thing, had they tried that, the locals would have walked all over those scuzzy asses.
> 
> So, after the march, they went down to occupy the Malhuer Game Reserve. Here I quote from the Oregonian;
> 
> Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers, and miners. He said he met Friday with 10 or so residents in Burns to try to recruit them, but they declined.
> 
> "We went to the local communities and presented it many times and to many differant people". He said. "They were not strong enough to make a stand. So many individuals across the United States and in Oregon are making this stand. We hope that they will grab onto this and realize it has been happening".
> 
> End of quote from the Oregonian.
> 
> So, it is not the locals, it is outsiders that are stirring up this trouble, could not even get 10 people from Burns to go along with them.
> 
> The Governor needs to put the National Guard around all the roads into the Refuge building, and allow nothing in or out. Post cameras, and if one of the locos points a gun at any Natonal Guardsman or law officer, he faces assualt with a deadly charges when this is over. And, when they finally have to come out, all their vehicles and weapons are seized, and they are arrested for criminal trespass. And if there is damage to anything in that building, or the building itself, they face charges for that.
> 
> All their weapons should be seized and destroyed, also. This kind of thing need to come to an end.
> 
> 
> 
> These men will be equal to the men that fought and died at the Alamo. They'll face superior odds, but I feel they will unite everyone who loves what we stand for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah yes, what you stand for. Idiocy and bigotry. Stupidity and senseless bloodshed. Lawlessness and theft.
Click to expand...

I stand for Patriotism and Constitutional Rights.


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
> Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> minimum mandatory sentences are constitutional. ignoring them is not.
Click to expand...



So you are OK with wanting them to go to jail for 5 years, that stopped wildfires from destroying their land?


----------



## ogibillm

paulitician said:


> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.


do you get a discount at the crazy store for buying in bulk?


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
> Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> minimum mandatory sentences are constitutional. ignoring them is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you are OK with wanting them to go to jail for 5 years, that stopped wildfires from destroying their land?
Click to expand...

not what they did, and yes. they broke the law with a minimum MANDATORY sentence. 
how would you feel if a firefighter had died fighting their back fire?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Maybe we should go after the terrorist's families


----------



## SwimExpert

peach174 said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who believes they are terrorists.
> All they did was start a backfire that saved their land.
Click to expand...


The fuck are you talking about, shit stain?  You don't even know what the hell is going on!!


----------



## peach174

SwimExpert said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who believes they are terrorists.
> All they did was start a backfire that saved their land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fuck are you talking about, shit stain?  You don't even know what the hell is going on!!
Click to expand...


Read up about it most uninformed one.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Witnesses say Steven Hammond and a hunting party illegally slaughtered deer on federal property in 2001, then started a fire to cover it up.


----------



## paulitician

They're White Americans. They aren't Muslims, African Americans, or Illegals. So it's probably not gonna end well for em. Hussein's already sentenced them to death. He ain't very big on white folks.

It's open season on White Americans these days. Another wonderful gift from Hussein. He really brought the nation together, huh? So yeah, these people are likely dead meat. God bless em though. They stood up and tried.


----------



## SwimExpert

_The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire._

_The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons._

Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

paulitician said:


> They're white Americans. They aren't Muslims, African Americans, or Illegals. So it's probably not gonna end well for em. Hussein's already sentenced them to death. He ain't very big on white folks.
> 
> It's open season on White Americans these days. Another wonderful gift from Hussein. He really brought the nation together. So yeah, these people are likely dead meat. God bless em though. They stood up and tried.


----------



## paulitician

ogibillm said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> do you get a discount at the crazy store for buying in bulk?
Click to expand...


Just stating the current bizarre reality. It's what your boy Hussein created. It is what it is.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

The 81 St Chairborne .....the Big Yellow One..fighting Obama from day one..


----------



## ogibillm

paulitician said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> do you get a discount at the crazy store for buying in bulk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just stating the current bizarre reality. It's what your boy Hussein created. It is what it is.
Click to expand...

so it's a sizable discount


----------



## PredFan

J.E.D said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking for handouts again?
Click to expand...


Sure. If the OP wants me to be there, I'll need the air fare.


----------



## rightwinger

Sounds like a bunch of hippies taking over the Deans office

Wait them out and arrest them for trespassing when they finally leave


----------



## PredFan

Old Rocks said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another welfare case looking for something for free. LOL
Click to expand...


Wrong again loser. It's another hard working, over taxed, over regulated American who can't afford to fly all the way to Oregon. If the OP feels so strongly about it, then help a brother out.


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> 
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
> Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> minimum mandatory sentences are constitutional. ignoring them is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you are OK with wanting them to go to jail for 5 years, that stopped wildfires from destroying their land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not what they did, and yes. they broke the law with a minimum MANDATORY sentence.
> how would you feel if a firefighter had died fighting their back fire?
Click to expand...



Yes that is what they did.
Now when the Feds burn for wildfire control and it get out of hand no problem.
In 2000, a prescribed burn by the Park Service at the Bandelier National Monument, New Mexico, got out of control and destroyed 280 homes at Los Alamos along with other buildings. Damage was estimated at $1 billion.


----------



## bodecea

rightwinger said:


> Sounds like a bunch of hippies taking over the Deans office
> 
> Wait them out and arrest them for trespassing when they finally leave


Build a high fence around the building...keep them in...no one goes in or out...no power...no water...and charge Bundy for the fence.


----------



## Moonglow

PredFan said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another welfare case looking for something for free. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again loser. It's another hard working, over taxed, over regulated American who can't afford to fly all the way to Oregon. If the OP feels so strongly about it, then help a brother out.
Click to expand...

You have two feet and a thumb....


----------



## CremeBrulee

TyroneSlothrop said:


> The 81 St Chairborne .....the Big Yellow One..fighting Obama from day one..



No doubt they earned their CIBs (Computer Infantryman's Badge) on the battlefields of cyberspace.


----------



## SwimExpert

peach174 said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who believes they are terrorists.
> All they did was start a backfire that saved their land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fuck are you talking about, shit stain?  You don't even know what the hell is going on!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read up about it most uninformed one.
Click to expand...


Listen very carefully cuntstain:  The terrorists who seized a federal facility are not the ones who were convicted of arson.  They are people who don't even live in the area, who are using the Hammond case as a pretext to engage in armed insurrection against the government.

_The Hammonds have been clear in that they don't want help from the Bundy group. _

_"Neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family," the Hammonds' attorney W. Alan Schroeder wrote to Harney County Sheriff David Ward._

Armed group takes over Oregon wildlife refuge building  - CNN.com

_“These men came to Harney County claiming to be part of militia groups supporting local ranchers,” Ward said in a statement Sunday. “When in reality these men had alternative motives, to attempt to overthrow the county and federal government in hopes to spark a movement across the United States.”_

Armed men, led by Bundy brothers, take over federal building in rural Oregon


----------



## Manonthestreet

SwimExpert said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
Click to expand...

Without local support they've alrdy lost the PR battle. Nobody is going to care if the people on scene don't care
At Bundy ranch I think there was govt illegalities that could not stand light  of day and thus they left. I would be in favor of their dispersal and or arrest. 
I wouldn't give them the show they want either. Simply send one guy in tell em anybody here tomorrow is going to jail.


----------



## PredFan

Moonglow said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another welfare case looking for something for free. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again loser. It's another hard working, over taxed, over regulated American who can't afford to fly all the way to Oregon. If the OP feels so strongly about it, then help a brother out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have two feet and a thumb....
Click to expand...


And a brain, which you obviously lack.


----------



## Moonglow

PredFan said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another welfare case looking for something for free. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again loser. It's another hard working, over taxed, over regulated American who can't afford to fly all the way to Oregon. If the OP feels so strongly about it, then help a brother out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have two feet and a thumb....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a brain, which you obviously lack.
Click to expand...

In which pocket is it?


----------



## Skull Pilot

SwimExpert said:


> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters


you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?

It's not "headquarters " for anything


----------



## bodecea

Skull Pilot said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
Click to expand...

It c
An be THEIR  headquarters.   With a fence around it keeping them in.


----------



## rightwinger

Grampa Murked U said:


> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?



Seems to be peaceful protest so far....Armed "peaceful protest"

Lets see where it goes and prosecute as necessary


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

The Politburo of Teabilly Mockery has started a "Pork Rind to Patriots" program requesting all to send bags of Pork Rinds to the brave besieged Teabilly balsa wood dildos holding out in Oregon against the "Obama Tyranny" ....


----------



## SwimExpert

Manonthestreet said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Without local support they've alrdy lost the PR battle. Nobody is going to care if the people on scene don't care
> At Bundy ranch I think there was govt illegalities that could not stand light  of day and thus they left. I would be in favor of their dispersal and or arrest.
> I wouldn't give them the show they want either. Simply send one guy in tell em anybody here tomorrow is going to jail.
Click to expand...


An article I read earlier today quoted a law enforcement expert as also emphasizing that avoiding a "show" is going to be necessary.  It makes alot of sense.  But you have to then figure out a way to convince them to leave on their own power.  They're willing to fight to stop anyone from removing them.


----------



## Skull Pilot

rightwinger said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be peaceful protest so far....Armed "peaceful protest"
> 
> Lets see where it goes and prosecute as necessary
Click to expand...


Can we prosecute the feral (sic) agents who will if history serves as a guide fire first?


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
> Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> minimum mandatory sentences are constitutional. ignoring them is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you are OK with wanting them to go to jail for 5 years, that stopped wildfires from destroying their land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> not what they did, and yes. they broke the law with a minimum MANDATORY sentence.
> how would you feel if a firefighter had died fighting their back fire?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes that is what they did.
Click to expand...

you can maybe argue that for one fire. what about the one they set to cover up the poaching?

they broke the law, were tried and convicted. that part is over, stop trying to argue that point as if their reasons matter now


----------



## IlarMeilyr

TyroneSlothrop said:


> The Politburo of Teabilly Mockery has started a "Pork Rind to Patriots" program requesting all to send bags of Pork Rinds to the brave besieged Teabilly balsa wood dildos holding out in Oregon against the "Obama Tyranny" ....



Thank you for your utterly worthless contribution to this thread.

Not that your "humor" falls flat or anything.


----------



## bodecea

Skull Pilot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be peaceful protest so far....Armed "peaceful protest"
> 
> Lets see where it goes and prosecute as necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can we prosecute the feral (sic) agents who will if history serves as a guide fire first?
Click to expand...

Like they fired first at Bundy ranch?


----------



## Skull Pilot

bodecea said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be peaceful protest so far....Armed "peaceful protest"
> 
> Lets see where it goes and prosecute as necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can we prosecute the feral (sic) agents who will if history serves as a guide fire first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like they fired first at Bundy ranch?
Click to expand...


Waco, Ruby Ridge

Got you 2 to one


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

IlarMeilyr said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Politburo of Teabilly Mockery has started a "Pork Rind to Patriots" program requesting all to send bags of Pork Rinds to the brave besieged Teabilly balsa wood dildos holding out in Oregon against the "Obama Tyranny" ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your utterly worthless contribution to this thread.
> 
> Not that your "humor" falls flat or anything.
Click to expand...

Everybody is a critic for instance you are a Right wing Moron with a clown avatar purporting [look up the word] to be "clever"


----------



## bodecea

Skull Pilot said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be peaceful protest so far....Armed "peaceful protest"
> 
> Lets see where it goes and prosecute as necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can we prosecute the feral (sic) agents who will if history serves as a guide fire first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like they fired first at Bundy ranch?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Waco, Ruby Ridge
> 
> Got you 2 to one
Click to expand...

R.eally?...you sure about that?


----------



## Skull Pilot

TyroneSlothrop said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Politburo of Teabilly Mockery has started a "Pork Rind to Patriots" program requesting all to send bags of Pork Rinds to the brave besieged Teabilly balsa wood dildos holding out in Oregon against the "Obama Tyranny" ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your utterly worthless contribution to this thread.
> 
> Not that your "humor" falls flat or anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everybody is a critic for instance you are a Right wing Moron with a clown avatar purporting [look up the word] to be "clever"
Click to expand...


It's like the special olympics

Even if you win you're still retarded


----------



## SwimExpert

Skull Pilot said:


> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything



You do realize you're full of shit, right?


----------



## peach174

SwimExpert said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
Click to expand...



It is not a conspiracy in any form what so ever.
Look up all the facts about it, what the Feds did in the past, how they got rid of the other ranchers and you can only come up with it's all about the Feds wanting to own more land.
This is what it is all about.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Skull Pilot said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Politburo of Teabilly Mockery has started a "Pork Rind to Patriots" program requesting all to send bags of Pork Rinds to the brave besieged Teabilly balsa wood dildos holding out in Oregon against the "Obama Tyranny" ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your utterly worthless contribution to this thread.
> 
> Not that your "humor" falls flat or anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everybody is a critic for instance you are a Right wing Moron with a clown avatar purporting [look up the word] to be "clever"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's like the special olympics
> 
> Even if you win you're still retarded
Click to expand...

you do not even win .......


----------



## Skull Pilot

bodecea said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be peaceful protest so far....Armed "peaceful protest"
> 
> Lets see where it goes and prosecute as necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can we prosecute the feral (sic) agents who will if history serves as a guide fire first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like they fired first at Bundy ranch?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Waco, Ruby Ridge
> 
> Got you 2 to one
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> R.eally?...you sure about that?
Click to expand...

Incident at Ruby Ridge - Aug 22, 1992 - HISTORY.com

The feds shot first killing a boy's dog


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Skull Pilot said:


> The feds shot first killing a boy's dog


Tamir Rice .......


----------



## Skull Pilot

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> The feds shot first killing a boy's dog
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice .......
Click to expand...


Apples and Orangutans


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## IlarMeilyr

TyroneSlothrop said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Politburo of Teabilly Mockery has started a "Pork Rind to Patriots" program requesting all to send bags of Pork Rinds to the brave besieged Teabilly balsa wood dildos holding out in Oregon against the "Obama Tyranny" ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your utterly worthless contribution to this thread.
> 
> Not that your "humor" falls flat or anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everybody is a critic for instance you are a Right wing Moron with a clown avatar purporting [look up the word] to be "clever"
> * * * *
Click to expand...


Your contribution remains as vapid as your insight into the motivation of others.

And the clown avie I presently use is that of our bumbling stumbling inept scumbag President.

Opinions ARE indeed like assholes.  We all have them and as you prove . . . . they stink.  You and yours in particular.

Meanwhile, your post was just incredibly lame.  Part of your stock in trade.


----------



## peach174

SwimExpert said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
Click to expand...



I would call this the middle of nowhere, headquarters or not.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

IlarMeilyr said:


> Part of your stock in trade.


I still have your attention so it must have been something simple I posted ...eh


----------



## rightwinger

Skull Pilot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be peaceful protest so far....Armed "peaceful protest"
> 
> Lets see where it goes and prosecute as necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can we prosecute the feral (sic) agents who will if history serves as a guide fire first?
Click to expand...


The protestors will get a fair trial if there is gunfire

What is the normal reaction when you point a weapon at a peace officer?


----------



## IlarMeilyr

TyroneSlothrop said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Part of your stock in trade.
> 
> 
> 
> I still have your attention so it must have been something simple I posted ...eh
Click to expand...

 And you remain devoutly attendant to my every word.

Simple minded slug that you are.  eh what?


----------



## IlarMeilyr

rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be peaceful protest so far....Armed "peaceful protest"
> 
> Lets see where it goes and prosecute as necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can we prosecute the feral (sic) agents who will if history serves as a guide fire first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The protestors will get a fair trial if there is gunfire
> 
> What is the normal reaction when you point a weapon at a peace officer?
Click to expand...


Normal?

Bang?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

They cannot help themselves those hapless  wing nuts ..like moths to a flame ..........


----------



## JimH52

Just a bunch of racist bullies. Why are the Feds letting them get away with this stuff?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Why are liberals so damn eager to call white Americans terrorists while giving a pass to the blacks that TERRORIZE ENTIRE CITY BLOCKS every day?


----------



## IlarMeilyr

TyroneSlothrop said:


> They cannot help themselves those hapless  wing nuts ..like moths to a flame ..........



True.  I have you hopping like a frog in a frying pan.


----------



## Skull Pilot

SwimExpert said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
Click to expand...


I never knew any "headquarters" to be completely unoccupied at any time


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

IlarMeilyr said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> They cannot help themselves those hapless  wing nuts ..like moths to a flame ..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.  I have you hopping like a frog in a frying pan.
Click to expand...

Declaring victory already ....must be your  butt hurt ......


----------



## IlarMeilyr

JimH52 said:


> Just a bunch of racist bullies. Why are the Feds letting them get away with this stuff?



Hey. ^  There's something you see every day.  A bigot liberal calling for the system to come down hard on anyone who opposes their Statist designs.


----------



## Skull Pilot

rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be peaceful protest so far....Armed "peaceful protest"
> 
> Lets see where it goes and prosecute as necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can we prosecute the feral (sic) agents who will if history serves as a guide fire first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The protestors will get a fair trial if there is gunfire
> 
> What is the normal reaction when you point a weapon at a peace officer?
Click to expand...


Yeah we all know you don't have to point a weapon at a feral agent to get shot


----------



## IlarMeilyr

TyroneSlothrop said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> They cannot help themselves those hapless  wing nuts ..like moths to a flame ..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.  I have you hopping like a frog in a frying pan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Declaring victory already ....must be your  butt hurt ......
Click to expand...


Said the hypocrite as though nobody notices that it has previously declared its own alleged victories.

Bwahahaha!

Your transparency illuminates you for the void you are.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

IlarMeilyr said:


> Your transparency illuminates you for the void you are.


That s boot deep stuff there Ein Stain


----------



## IlarMeilyr

TyroneSlothrop said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your transparency illuminates you for the void you are.
> 
> 
> 
> That s boot deep stuff there Ein Stain
Click to expand...


^ Borders on actual coherency.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

to get shot all you have to do is be black 12 years old and playing with a toy gun at a park..........


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

IlarMeilyr said:


> ^ Borders on actual coherency.


not you ...you are way off the reservation


----------



## IlarMeilyr

TyroneSlothrop said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ Borders on actual coherency.
> 
> 
> 
> not you ...you are way off the reservation
Click to expand...


That's ok, Slothy.  I was being sarcastic.  Get an adult to help you out with those big words.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

TyroneSlothrop said:


> to get shot all you have to do is be black 12 years old and playing with a toy gun at a park..........


OR be sitting on your bed in a black neighborhood doing your homework


----------



## Dot Com

ogibillm said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamabots are so predictable and lame.
> 
> 
> 
> especially when you just make up their responses.
Click to expand...

Polly paulitician is a basement-dwelling, libertarian wannabe.

As to the OP, the judge did not follow sentencing guidelines so justice wasnt served

Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk


----------



## IlarMeilyr

TyroneSlothrop said:


> to get shot all you have to do is be black 12 years old and playing with a toy gun at a park..........



^ Said the abject moron.  Because in Slothbrain's make-believe world, no cop has ever been shot by a suspect.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

In Oregon, after a group of militia-men and “patriots” sent out a call to action to assemble in protest on Saturday for father-son arsonist duo Dwight Hammond Jr. and Steven Hammond, the Hammonds are saying that the protest was neither asked for nor wanted, and that the protesters do not represent the sentiment of the family.

The father and son, who are facing up to four years each in federal prison after burning over 100 acres of federal land, say that they do not support the protest and plan to surrender to the police on January 4th as previously directed.

*Family For Whom Oregon Protest Is Assembled Says They Don't Want It: Militia "Patriots" Plans are Pointless - The Ring of Fire Network*


----------



## bodecea

Grampa Murked U said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> to get shot all you have to do is be black 12 years old and playing with a toy gun at a park..........
> 
> 
> 
> OR be sitting on your bed in a black neighborhood doing your homework
Click to expand...

Or shopping at Walmart and leaving your purse open where your toddler can get at your gun.


----------



## Dot Com

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
> Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?
Click to expand...

you conveniently forgot about the poaching charges. 

Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

IlarMeilyr said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ Borders on actual coherency.
> 
> 
> 
> not you ...you are way off the reservation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's ok, Slothy.  I was being sarcastic.  Get an adult to help you out with those big words.
Click to expand...

you fail...label stuff...like snark....just write "this is snark" so we can tell from your routine stupid


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

bodecea said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> to get shot all you have to do is be black 12 years old and playing with a toy gun at a park..........
> 
> 
> 
> OR be sitting on your bed in a black neighborhood doing your homework
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or shopping at Walmart and leaving your purse open where your toddler can get at your gun.
Click to expand...

or be letting a little child fire a machine gun..............
*9-year-old accidentally kills range instructor with Uzi - CNN*


----------



## IlarMeilyr

TyroneSlothrop said:


> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IlarMeilyr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ Borders on actual coherency.
> 
> 
> 
> not you ...you are way off the reservation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's ok, Slothy.  I was being sarcastic.  Get an adult to help you out with those big words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you fail...label stuff...like snark....just write "this is snark" so we can tell from your routine stupid
Click to expand...


You would normally be a highly qualified expert on "fail."  It _is_ your stock in trade, after all, as has already been noted.

However, since nothing you say is of any actual merit or value, your post remains a mere void.

As do you.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Lars Petticord* ‏@*fatdownjacket* 

Every successful revolution starts with takeover of closed visitor center with gift shop. #*OregonUnderAttack* #*YallQaeda*


----------



## paulitician

Dot Com said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamabots are so predictable and lame.
> 
> 
> 
> especially when you just make up their responses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Polly paulitician is a basement-dwelling, libertarian wannabe.
> 
> As to the OP, the judge did not follow sentencing guidelines so justice wasnt served
> 
> Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


They Non-Communist white folks. They as good as dead. Hussein gon get em soon. Now if they were Muslims, White Communists/Progressives, or Illegals, Hussein would be quick to the rescue. It is what it is.


----------



## IlarMeilyr

Why is Sloth-brain trying so hard to offer nothing of value?  It shouldn't require such strain and demand such effort. 

It's almost as though it's trying to communicate.


----------



## Dot Com

SwimExpert said:


> _The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire._
> 
> _The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons._
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice


^ that peach174

Facts are stubborn things

Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

paulitician said:


> They Non-Communist white folks. They as good as dead. .


its like Jade Helms  but worst......


----------



## peach174

Dot Com said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
> Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you conveniently forgot about the poaching charges.
> 
> Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


That was the one done in 2001.
I was talking about the one in 2006.
I should have been more specific.


----------



## paulitician

TyroneSlothrop said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They Non-Communist white folks. They as good as dead. .
> 
> 
> 
> its like Jade Helms  but worst......
Click to expand...


I'm sure all you loony Obamabots are hoping & praying they're killed. They're not Muslims, White Communists/Progressives, or Illegals. Therefore y'all are hoping for carnage. Y'all are sick bastids for sure.


----------



## bodecea

paulitician said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They Non-Communist white folks. They as good as dead. .
> 
> 
> 
> its like Jade Helms  but worst......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sure all you loony Obamabots are hoping & praying they're killed. They're not Muslims, White Communists/Progressives, or Illegals. Therefore y'all are hoping for carnage. Y'all are sick bastids for sure.
Click to expand...

Nah....just fence them in and cut off power and water.


----------



## mdk

We demand that Malheur National Forest, which was established in 1908 by TR, to be used for ranching, logging, mining, and, recreation. 

Yeah, that sounds like a winning position. lol


----------



## jillian

SwimExpert said:


> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters



yep... they are nothing but domestic terrorists.

if blacks or muslims or "protesters" did this the wackadoodles would be having nervous breakdowns.


----------



## jillian

paulitician said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamabots are so predictable and lame.
> 
> 
> 
> especially when you just make up their responses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Polly paulitician is a basement-dwelling, libertarian wannabe.
> 
> As to the OP, the judge did not follow sentencing guidelines so justice wasnt served
> 
> Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They Non-Communist white folks. They as good as dead. Hussein gon get em soon. Now if they were Muslims, White Communists/Progressives, or Illegals, Hussein would be quick to the rescue. It is what it is.
Click to expand...


----------



## Manonthestreet

Dot Com said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamabots are so predictable and lame.
> 
> 
> 
> especially when you just make up their responses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Polly paulitician is a basement-dwelling, libertarian wannabe.
> 
> As to the OP, the judge did not follow sentencing guidelines so justice wasnt served
> 
> Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yes it was....there was trial verdict and sentence.


----------



## paulitician

jillian said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamabots are so predictable and lame.
> 
> 
> 
> especially when you just make up their responses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Polly paulitician is a basement-dwelling, libertarian wannabe.
> 
> As to the OP, the judge did not follow sentencing guidelines so justice wasnt served
> 
> Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They Non-Communist white folks. They as good as dead. Hussein gon get em soon. Now if they were Muslims, White Communists/Progressives, or Illegals, Hussein would be quick to the rescue. It is what it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


I know it is crazy, right? Sometimes truth can be crazy.


----------



## Manonthestreet

jillian said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yep... they are nothing but domestic terrorists.
> 
> if blacks or muslims or "protesters" did this the wackadoodles would be having nervous breakdowns.
Click to expand...

Blm armed patrols were on the streets of mpls stopping cars in the area and demanding to know the occupants business in the area.


----------



## SwimExpert

Skull Pilot said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never knew any "headquarters" to be completely unoccupied at any time
Click to expand...


Well, there's alot of things you don't know.  I really don't get what you're trying to allege here.  Is your complaint that the building was closed for the holiday?


----------



## SwimExpert

paulitician said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obamabots are so predictable and lame.
> 
> 
> 
> especially when you just make up their responses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Polly paulitician is a basement-dwelling, libertarian wannabe.
> 
> As to the OP, the judge did not follow sentencing guidelines so justice wasnt served
> 
> Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They Non-Communist white folks. They as good as dead. Hussein gon get em soon. Now if they were Muslims, White Communists/Progressives, or Illegals, Hussein would be quick to the rescue. It is what it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is crazy, right? Sometimes truth can be crazy.
Click to expand...


And all times *you* can be crazier.


----------



## Penelope

Bundy needs some prison time, he is the head of a terrorist group.


----------



## ClosedCaption

To be fair that kid is tall for his age and since height is a direct correlation to criminality I can see why thats brought up often






Aww CC, they are just playing Rambo!  wink wink


----------



## ClosedCaption

Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.


----------



## paulitician

SwimExpert said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> especially when you just make up their responses.
> 
> 
> 
> Polly paulitician is a basement-dwelling, libertarian wannabe.
> 
> As to the OP, the judge did not follow sentencing guidelines so justice wasnt served
> 
> Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They Non-Communist white folks. They as good as dead. Hussein gon get em soon. Now if they were Muslims, White Communists/Progressives, or Illegals, Hussein would be quick to the rescue. It is what it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know it is crazy, right? Sometimes truth can be crazy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And all times *you* can be crazier.
Click to expand...


Crazy truth. It is what it is.


----------



## SwimExpert

peach174 said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I would call this the middle of nowhere, headquarters or not.
Click to expand...


Are you seriously trying to say that terrorism is justified if it happens in an open field?


----------



## peach174

SwimExpert said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I would call this the middle of nowhere, headquarters or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to say that terrorism is justified if it happens in an open field?
Click to expand...



All I'm saying is that is the middle of nowhere.


----------



## Dana7360

paulitician said:


> Remember folks, Big Brother wants it all. He's not your friend. One day, every square inch of America will be owned by the Government and Corporations. Bet on that.






That land has been government land since 1908.

No one has grabbed anyone's land. It was unowned and unused land when the government designated it a wildlife refuge by Theodore Roosevelt. 

You remember learning about him don't you?

He's the president who created our national parks.

He was also a republican.


----------



## Dana7360

SwimExpert said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
Click to expand...



On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.

That land has been government land since 1908. 

The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.

These people are so stupid and such liars.


----------



## paulitician

Dana7360 said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember folks, Big Brother wants it all. He's not your friend. One day, every square inch of America will be owned by the Government and Corporations. Bet on that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> No one has grabbed anyone's land. It was unowned and unused land when the government designated it a wildlife refuge by Theodore Roosevelt.
> 
> You remember learning about him don't you?
> 
> He's the president who created our national parks.
> 
> He was also a republican.
Click to expand...


Man, so many people still don't get it. Big Brother wants it all. He's not your friend. Until people start understanding that, he's gonna continue trying to grab it all.


----------



## Skull Pilot

SwimExpert said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never knew any "headquarters" to be completely unoccupied at any time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there's alot of things you don't know.  I really don't get what you're trying to allege here.  Is your complaint that the building was closed for the holiday?
Click to expand...


It was empty, no one was harmed or even threatened it's a building in the middle of nowhere and in all probability the couple people who work there don't really do anything anyway


----------



## Dot Com

They are terrorists plain & simple and they need to be put down

Face it, Oregon building takeover is terrorism - CNN.com

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk


----------



## peach174

Dana7360 said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.
> 
> These people are so stupid and such liars.
Click to expand...


No it isn't.
The Hammonds own that ranch.

Bundy Ranch
In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.

By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.

During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.

By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.
> 
> These people are so stupid and such liars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> Bundy Ranch
> In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
Click to expand...

How about the lands they burnt to cover up their poaching? 

And once again, I'll remind you of two things:
1. The Hammond's are guilty of arson
2. The criminals in the refuge building have nothing to do with the Hammonds


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.
> 
> These people are so stupid and such liars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> Bundy Ranch
> In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about the lands they burnt to cover up their poaching?
> 
> And once again, I'll remind you of two things:
> 1. The Hammond's are guilty of arson
> 2. The criminals in the refuge building have nothing to do with the Hammonds
Click to expand...



1.Of which they served their time.
2. No they don't ( I agree), other than 2 ranchers who have held out against the taking of their ranches by the Feds in two different States.


----------



## Katzndogz

Dot Com said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one finds that there is something wrong with a judge ordering additional time 8 years after the sentence was served and the men released from prison?
> 
> Not a thing wrong with that.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't do 30 day stints in prison drunk grl. One had a year, one had 30 days. Remember when I pointed that out to you ystrdy? They most likely did it in jail which is different for obvious reasons
Click to expand...

The men were sentenced and served their time, completing their sentences 8 years ago.


----------



## Katzndogz

ogibillm said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.
> 
> These people are so stupid and such liars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> Bundy Ranch
> In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about the lands they burnt to cover up their poaching?
> 
> And once again, I'll remind you of two things:
> 1. The Hammond's are guilty of arson
> 2. The criminals in the refuge building have nothing to do with the Hammonds
Click to expand...

The Hammonds are guilty of arson.  They were tried, convicted and served their time 11 years ago.


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.
> 
> These people are so stupid and such liars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> Bundy Ranch
> In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about the lands they burnt to cover up their poaching?
> 
> And once again, I'll remind you of two things:
> 1. The Hammond's are guilty of arson
> 2. The criminals in the refuge building have nothing to do with the Hammonds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1.Of which they served their time.
Click to expand...

No, they haven't.


> 2. No they don't ( I agree), other than 2 ranchers who have held out against the taking of their ranches by the Feds in two different States.


Lol. Nobody is trying to take the Hammonds' ranch or the Bundys' for that matter.


----------



## ogibillm

Tipsycatlover said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one finds that there is something wrong with a judge ordering additional time 8 years after the sentence was served and the men released from prison?
> 
> Not a thing wrong with that.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't do 30 day stints in prison drunk grl. One had a year, one had 30 days. Remember when I pointed that out to you ystrdy? They most likely did it in jail which is different for obvious reasons
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The men were sentenced and served their time, completing their sentences 8 years ago.
Click to expand...

Not quite correct. They served an invalid and vacated sentence the judge gave in contradiction to the law


----------



## AmericanFirst1

Old Rocks said:


> The Hammond's played with fire and got burned. Setting fires when you cannot control them is real serious business in that area. They have had some major fires in the past decade, some that destroyed up to 1/3 of some of the ranchers cattle. That represents many years of lost income for a group of people that work extremely hard for the little income they make.


Especially when a tyrant wants your land. Good for the militia.


----------



## Katzndogz

Skull Pilot said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never knew any "headquarters" to be completely unoccupied at any time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there's alot of things you don't know.  I really don't get what you're trying to allege here.  Is your complaint that the building was closed for the holiday?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was empty, no one was harmed or even threatened it's a building in the middle of nowhere and in all probability the couple people who work there don't really do anything anyway
Click to expand...

No body works there.  It's for the occasional use of the forest service.


----------



## Old Rocks

whitehall said:


> Maybe most low information lefties failed English 101 which is why they fail to understand the difference between domestic terrorism and and the 1st Amendment. It's easy if you look at rationally. College professor and democrat party guru Bill Ayers was a domestic terrorist. His wife was a domestic terrorist. Those Russians who set off bombs at the Boston Marathon are domestic and international terrorists. People who make bombs are terrorists. College kids who occupy a building aren't terrorists, OWS thugs who occupy a park may be junkie rapists but they aren't terrorists. People who protest BLM regulations may or may not be right but they certainly aren't terrorists.


Bullshit. They are not protesting BLM regulations, they have staged an armed take over of a Federal Building. That is an act of terrorism. And that should be prosecuted as such.


----------



## Old Rocks

Tipsycatlover said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never knew any "headquarters" to be completely unoccupied at any time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there's alot of things you don't know.  I really don't get what you're trying to allege here.  Is your complaint that the building was closed for the holiday?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was empty, no one was harmed or even threatened it's a building in the middle of nowhere and in all probability the couple people who work there don't really do anything anyway
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No body works there.  It's for the occasional use of the forest service.
Click to expand...

You are a damned liar. Go to the Malhuer Game Refuge site, and see what you are talking about.


----------



## bravoactual

Why is it when supporters of the idiot Cliven Bundy need to use firearms.

Las Vegas Shooters Boasted About Protesting At Cliven Bundy's Ranch.

Two RWNJ Gunhuggers from Bundy Compound shot and killed Police Officers in Vegas, now Bundy's room temperature I.Q. son show up in Oregon carrying rifles and talking. BTW, neither of men being returned to jail want the bundy bunch there.....and the "back fire"  that dynamic duo sperty and et was on Federal Land and NOT private property and done so without permission.  The fire was deliberately set and is arson.

Just think of the RWNJ would be doing right if these gun carrying goobers were Muslim, just think what the RWNJ would be demanding now.


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
Click to expand...

They did not have permission to start a fire on that property. And that fire endangered an encampment of BLM firefighters uphill from the fire. Get your facts straight before posting.


----------



## Katzndogz

When liberals take over a government building it's a city hall or state capitol.  Then they destroy it.


----------



## Old Rocks

Freewill said:


> Once again i point out the hypocrisy of the liberal left.  To the left Occupy Wall Street was a righteous group fighting the man.  But this group, who has done what many groups before them have done, the left is ready to go to war, or more to the point ready to execute those who have a grievance against the government.  Because, as usual, the left does not agree with there grievance.


Dear little corksmoker, Occupy were not pointing guns at people. These assholes are not wanted in Harney County, and are rapidly becoming a pain in the neck.


----------



## Dot Com

peach174 said:


> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.
> 
> These people are so stupid and such liars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> Bundy Ranch
> In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
Click to expand...

"bundyranchblogspot" as a source? peach174  SERIOUSLY!!!


----------



## Dot Com

Old Rocks said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never knew any "headquarters" to be completely unoccupied at any time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, there's alot of things you don't know.  I really don't get what you're trying to allege here.  Is your complaint that the building was closed for the holiday?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was empty, no one was harmed or even threatened it's a building in the middle of nowhere and in all probability the couple people who work there don't really do anything anyway
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No body works there.  It's for the occasional use of the forest service.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a damned liar. Go to the Malhuer Game Refuge site, and see what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

Tipsycatlover  ystrdy as well when she said they served 3 years WHEN IN FACT, one served a year & the other- 3 months.


----------



## Old Rocks

paulitician said:


> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.


Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
> Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> minimum mandatory sentences are constitutional. ignoring them is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you are OK with wanting them to go to jail for 5 years, that stopped wildfires from destroying their land?
Click to expand...

Get off it. That wildfire they started could very well have burned out the BLM camp where the firefighters were sleeping. They lost control of the fire. It was an act of criminal negligence.


----------



## Old Rocks

Skull Pilot said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
Click to expand...

You are a lying asshole.


----------



## ogibillm

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I understand a witness testified to seeing them hunting.  Also, a family member testified that he had been given materials and instructed to go light a fire to hide the evidence of poaching.  They were not retried on separate charges.  What happened is that they were sentenced and served their sentences, but later an appeals court decided their sentences hadn't been long enough.
> 
> I don't see any sense in questioning their convictions as if it was some kind of government conspiracy.  They were tried by a jury and were found guilty, and I'm not inclined to believe for one moment that 12 jurors decided to jump in on a government plot.  I do find it very disturbing that an appeals court can tack on additional prison time after people have served their sentences.
> 
> All that being said.....*It does not fucking matter!!*
> 
> There is no justification, no defense, of these terrorists' actions.  None.  Period.
> 
> 
> 
> the judge did not follow the sentencing guidelines. he gave them an invalid sentence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He based it on the 8th Amendment and it was a valid sentence.
> Come on - 5 years for trying to protect their land and home from wildfires?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> minimum mandatory sentences are constitutional. ignoring them is not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you are OK with wanting them to go to jail for 5 years, that stopped wildfires from destroying their land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Get off it. That wildfire they started could very well have burned out the BLM camp where the firefighters were sleeping. They lost control of the fire. It was an act of criminal negligence.
Click to expand...

or, as the jury called it, arson


----------



## Old Rocks

Skull Pilot said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like a protest to me. Dunno what kind of crack the op is smokin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be peaceful protest so far....Armed "peaceful protest"
> 
> Lets see where it goes and prosecute as necessary
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can we prosecute the feral (sic) agents who will if history serves as a guide fire first?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like they fired first at Bundy ranch?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Waco, Ruby Ridge
> 
> Got you 2 to one
Click to expand...

Perhaps we should prosecute President Bush the Elder over that?


----------



## Dana7360

paulitician said:


> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember folks, Big Brother wants it all. He's not your friend. One day, every square inch of America will be owned by the Government and Corporations. Bet on that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> No one has grabbed anyone's land. It was unowned and unused land when the government designated it a wildlife refuge by Theodore Roosevelt.
> 
> You remember learning about him don't you?
> 
> He's the president who created our national parks.
> 
> He was also a republican.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man, so many people still don't get it. Big Brother wants it all. He's not your friend. Until people start understanding that, he's gonna continue trying to grab it all.
Click to expand...





No the point is that no one is trying to grab that land except those terrorists. It's not their land to take and just give to someone. 

Hummmm. Who does that? That's right communists. They take land from people and give it to other people.

That land has been government land for over 100 years. Before that no one owned it. Oregon was barely developed and that corner of the state didn't have much of anyone out there when it was designated federal land.

You seem to not realize that the western states aren't as developed as the east. Especially in 1908. Oregon had not even been in the union for even 50 years by the time the land was set aside. The west isn't like the east or midwest. People have not been here as long.

The constitution says that the government can't take anyone's land without properly compensating for that land.

So your paranoia and lies don't pass the constitutional test nor the reality test.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Old Rocks said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a lying asshole.
Click to expand...


So it's not in the middle of nowhere and it's a bustling mini metropolis of government bureacracy


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I would call this the middle of nowhere, headquarters or not.
Click to expand...

Oh my, you little shitfaced liar;








The Malhuer Game Refuge is a very unique place, a vast wetland in the middle of the the high dessert, with a very large fault block mountain, Steens Mountian, feeding it water. Truly one of the most beautiful places in the West.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I would call this the middle of nowhere, headquarters or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, you little shitfaced liar;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Malhuer Game Refuge is a very unique place, a vast wetland in the middle of the the high dessert, with a very large fault block mountain, Steens Mountian, feeding it water. Truly one of the most beautiful places in the West.
Click to expand...


A cropped picture does not mean the building occupied is not in the middle of nowhere and the fact that the reserve is in the high desert does not have anything to do with the fact that the building was empty and is not in any way an important federal structure

Saying this is some sort of call to arms for a government takeover is fucking bullshit


----------



## mamooth

ogibillm said:


> Not quite correct. They served an invalid and vacated sentence the judge gave in contradiction to the law



To be fair, it is a bad law. We're talking a 1996 law, aimed at Earth First ecoterrorists, which defined such arson as a sort of terrorism, and increased the penalties for it. It was a bad law when aimed at the left, and is still a bad law when aimed at the right. Nice of the righties to finally notice it, of course.

The peaceful protest over the law, that was a good thing. Nobody complained about that.

The armed takeover, a bad thing. Because armed takeovers are bad things. But that's a separate group from the Hammonds and the protesters. The Bundy assclowns were just using the Hammonds as an excuse to be assclowns.

As far as the assclowns go, don't give them the attention they crave. As others have said, just block the road, cut the power, and wish them a nice winter.

Oh, this is a nice illustration of white privilege. If a group of armed black men had occupied an empty building somewhere, publicly declaring they'll shoot anyone who tries to evict them, the armored vehicles would have been rolling within minutes. It's not that the white guys here should be shot. Nobody should be shot. It's that black guys should be given the same latitude as white guys, and not instantly get shot over everything.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

View image on Twitter 




 Follow


 S.S.2 @kuza__ 

#OregonUnderAttack Sigh.

 5:33 PM - 3 Jan 2016


----------



## JimH52

Hammond said that he wants nothing to do with the Bundy tribe.  Why are they still here?  Who is paying their salaries?  I guess they will betting some kind of federal assistance if they stay there long enough.  Then we could call them the "Welfare Terrorist!"


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.
> 
> These people are so stupid and such liars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> Bundy Ranch
> In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
Click to expand...




Skull Pilot said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I would call this the middle of nowhere, headquarters or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, you little shitfaced liar;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Malhuer Game Refuge is a very unique place, a vast wetland in the middle of the the high dessert, with a very large fault block mountain, Steens Mountian, feeding it water. Truly one of the most beautiful places in the West.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A cropped picture does not mean the building occupied is not in the middle of nowhere and the fact that the reserve is in the high desert does not have anything to do with the fact that the building was empty and is not in any way an important federal structure
> 
> Saying this is some sort of call to arms for a government takeover is fucking bullshit
Click to expand...

Two busy to look at the two videos of portions of the Refuge.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

* Twitter Mocks Ore. Militia With #YallQaeda And #VanillaISIS *


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Bernie Sanders* ‏@*BernSanders2016* 

And people say white privilege doesn't exist. Smh #*OregonUnderAttack*


----------



## JimH52

Tipsycatlover said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.
> 
> These people are so stupid and such liars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> Bundy Ranch
> In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about the lands they burnt to cover up their poaching?
> 
> And once again, I'll remind you of two things:
> 1. The Hammond's are guilty of arson
> 2. The criminals in the refuge building have nothing to do with the Hammonds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Hammonds are guilty of arson.  They were tried, convicted and served their time 11 years ago.
Click to expand...


A judicial matter is being argued by terrorist with guns.  What is wrong with this picture?


----------



## peach174

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> you do realize that it's an empty building in the middle of nowhere don't you?
> 
> It's not "headquarters " for anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do realize you're full of shit, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I would call this the middle of nowhere, headquarters or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh my, you little shitfaced liar;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Malhuer Game Refuge is a very unique place, a vast wetland in the middle of the the high dessert, with a very large fault block mountain, Steens Mountian, feeding it water. Truly one of the most beautiful places in the West.
Click to expand...



So what did I lie about?


----------



## AmericanFirst1

Old Rocks said:


> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*


I read the history leading up to current events. After reading it and learning the facts of the case I have to say, way to go militia. Trumped up charges and bullying by a tyrannical government from the get go. I support the Hammonds 100%. The claim that the back fire spread to government land is a flat out lie. Retarded commie lib.


----------



## AmericanFirst1

Penelope said:


> Bundy needs some prison time, he is the head of a terrorist group.


When the Clintons and obuthole go he can.


----------



## Old Rocks

Fine, you just go down there and try to support them. Best not stop in Burns. The locals don't like outsiders that come there to make trouble.


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.
> 
> These people are so stupid and such liars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> Bundy Ranch
> In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about the lands they burnt to cover up their poaching?
> 
> And once again, I'll remind you of two things:
> 1. The Hammond's are guilty of arson
> 2. The criminals in the refuge building have nothing to do with the Hammonds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1.Of which they served their time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they haven't.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. No they don't ( I agree), other than 2 ranchers who have held out against the taking of their ranches by the Feds in two different States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol. Nobody is trying to take the Hammonds' ranch or the Bundys' for that matter.
Click to expand...



Yes they are.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Obama doesn't treat real terrorists the way he's treated the Hammonds.


----------



## bucs90

AmericanFirst1 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I read the history leading up to current events. After reading it and learning the facts of the case I have to say, way to go militia. Trumped up charges and bullying by a tyrannical government from the get go. I support the Hammonds 100%. The claim that the back fire spread to government land is a flat out lie. Retarded commie lib.
Click to expand...


I admit I haven't read up on it much....and it seems way more complex than a thug robbing a gas station. My initial take is they are committing a crime and need to be charged.

Is THEIR land being taken? Or have they been using public land and now the government is aware of it and not letting them use it anymore?


----------



## Old Rocks

By the time this is over, I think that there is going to be a lot of the militia spending several years near Salem, Oregon, in the iron bar hotel,.


----------



## PredFan

Old Rocks said:


> The Hammond's played with fire and got burned. Setting fires when you cannot control them is real serious business in that area. They have had some major fires in the past decade, some that destroyed up to 1/3 of some of the ranchers cattle. That represents many years of lost income for a group of people that work extremely hard for the little income they make.



Which they already served jail time for.


----------



## peach174

Dana7360 said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember folks, Big Brother wants it all. He's not your friend. One day, every square inch of America will be owned by the Government and Corporations. Bet on that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> No one has grabbed anyone's land. It was unowned and unused land when the government designated it a wildlife refuge by Theodore Roosevelt.
> 
> You remember learning about him don't you?
> 
> He's the president who created our national parks.
> 
> He was also a republican.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Man, so many people still don't get it. Big Brother wants it all. He's not your friend. Until people start understanding that, he's gonna continue trying to grab it all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No the point is that no one is trying to grab that land except those terrorists. It's not their land to take and just give to someone.
> 
> Hummmm. Who does that? That's right communists. They take land from people and give it to other people.
> 
> That land has been government land for over 100 years. Before that no one owned it. Oregon was barely developed and that corner of the state didn't have much of anyone out there when it was designated federal land.
> 
> You seem to not realize that the western states aren't as developed as the east. Especially in 1908. Oregon had not even been in the union for even 50 years by the time the land was set aside. The west isn't like the east or midwest. People have not been here as long.
> 
> The constitution says that the government can't take anyone's land without properly compensating for that land.
> 
> So your paranoia and lies don't pass the constitutional test nor the reality test.
Click to expand...



They are not trying to take the land.
They want it given over to the State to manage.


----------



## PredFan

Penelope said:


> Bundy needs some prison time, he is the head of a terrorist group.



What terror? No more terror than what BLM or OWS or the black Panthers do.


----------



## AmericanFirst1

bucs90 said:


> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I read the history leading up to current events. After reading it and learning the facts of the case I have to say, way to go militia. Trumped up charges and bullying by a tyrannical government from the get go. I support the Hammonds 100%. The claim that the back fire spread to government land is a flat out lie. Retarded commie lib.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I admit I haven't read up on it much....and it seems way more complex than a thug robbing a gas station. My initial take is they are committing a crime and need to be charged.
> 
> Is THEIR land being taken? Or have they been using public land and now the government is aware of it and not letting them use it anymore?
Click to expand...

No. From what I read all the charges are trumped up to get their land. The backfire  to stop the spread of a wildfire was started on their land and was successful, never spread to government land. The government got mad when they received water rights. I support the Hammonds 100% in this.


----------



## AmericanFirst1

PredFan said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammond's played with fire and got burned. Setting fires when you cannot control them is real serious business in that area. They have had some major fires in the past decade, some that destroyed up to 1/3 of some of the ranchers cattle. That represents many years of lost income for a group of people that work extremely hard for the little income they make.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which they already served jail time for.
Click to expand...

On trumped up charges.


----------



## bucs90

AmericanFirst1 said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I read the history leading up to current events. After reading it and learning the facts of the case I have to say, way to go militia. Trumped up charges and bullying by a tyrannical government from the get go. I support the Hammonds 100%. The claim that the back fire spread to government land is a flat out lie. Retarded commie lib.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I admit I haven't read up on it much....and it seems way more complex than a thug robbing a gas station. My initial take is they are committing a crime and need to be charged.
> 
> Is THEIR land being taken? Or have they been using public land and now the government is aware of it and not letting them use it anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. From what I read all the charges are trumped up to get their land. The backfire  to stop the spread of a wildfire was started on their land and was successful, never spread to government land. The government got mad when they received water rights. I support the Hammonds 100% in this.
Click to expand...


So it was an imminent domain type land seizure?? If it was their land and the government is seizing it....I support their cause opposing that because imminent domain is bullshit.

However....I cannot support their seizure of the Federal building. There is a way to do things and that isn't it.


----------



## Old Rocks

bucs90 said:


> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I read the history leading up to current events. After reading it and learning the facts of the case I have to say, way to go militia. Trumped up charges and bullying by a tyrannical government from the get go. I support the Hammonds 100%. The claim that the back fire spread to government land is a flat out lie. Retarded commie lib.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I admit I haven't read up on it much....and it seems way more complex than a thug robbing a gas station. My initial take is they are committing a crime and need to be charged.
> 
> Is THEIR land being taken? Or have they been using public land and now the government is aware of it and not letting them use it anymore?
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with their land. The Hammond's started some fires that had to be put out by BLM firefighters, and actually endangered those firefighters. They were sentenced for criminal negligence in setting those fires. However, under a law made for eco-terrorists, they have been re-sentenced to the mandatory sentence under that law. 

Now as to the militia, the area they are occupying was designated a National Game Refuge in 1908 by Theodore Roosevelt. That area is a wetland in the high desert, recieving it's water from a very large fault block mountian, Steens Mountain. This is a very unique area, one well worth a special trip. 

I watched Ammon Bundy speak today, and he didn't even mention Hammond's. It was all about seizing 'back' property from the US Government. What ever the hell he means by that. Armed seizure of federal property with the intention of fomenting rebellion is treason.


----------



## Penelope

PredFan said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bundy needs some prison time, he is the head of a terrorist group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What terror? No more terror than what BLM or OWS or the black Panthers do.
Click to expand...


He is the leader of the militia group, and right now is sons have the wildlife sanctuary captive.  He also should be in prison for non payment for grazing rights.


----------



## Old Rocks

bucs90 said:


> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I read the history leading up to current events. After reading it and learning the facts of the case I have to say, way to go militia. Trumped up charges and bullying by a tyrannical government from the get go. I support the Hammonds 100%. The claim that the back fire spread to government land is a flat out lie. Retarded commie lib.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I admit I haven't read up on it much....and it seems way more complex than a thug robbing a gas station. My initial take is they are committing a crime and need to be charged.
> 
> Is THEIR land being taken? Or have they been using public land and now the government is aware of it and not letting them use it anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. From what I read all the charges are trumped up to get their land. The backfire  to stop the spread of a wildfire was started on their land and was successful, never spread to government land. The government got mad when they received water rights. I support the Hammonds 100% in this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it was an imminent domain type land seizure?? If it was their land and the government is seizing it....I support their cause opposing that because imminent domain is bullshit.
> 
> However....I cannot support their seizure of the Federal building. There is a way to do things and that isn't it.
Click to expand...

Fellow, you are way off base. There is no land seizure on anyone's part but that of the militia. And they are seizing the land of the people of the United States.


----------



## PredFan

Penelope said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bundy needs some prison time, he is the head of a terrorist group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What terror? No more terror than what BLM or OWS or the black Panthers do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is the leader of the militia group, and right now is sons have the wildlife sanctuary captive.  He also should be in prison for non payment for grazing rights.
Click to expand...


Still not terror, nit wit.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Linda Sarsour @lsarsour 
We send national guards & military to #Ferguson for protesters & watch on every network but white militia take over a federal building, nah.

 23:33 - 2 января 2016


----------



## Old Rocks

AmericanFirst1 said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammond's played with fire and got burned. Setting fires when you cannot control them is real serious business in that area. They have had some major fires in the past decade, some that destroyed up to 1/3 of some of the ranchers cattle. That represents many years of lost income for a group of people that work extremely hard for the little income they make.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which they already served jail time for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On trumped up charges.
Click to expand...

Argue that with the jury made up of people from Harney County.


----------



## dani67

are they trump fan or cruz fan?


----------



## PredFan

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Linda Sarsour @lsarsour
> We send national guards & military to #Ferguson for protesters & watch on every network but white militia take over a federal building, nah.
> 
> 23:33 - 2 января 2016



Those protesters were setting fires, looting, overturning cars, and blocking highways. These guys are doing none of that.


----------



## JimH52

AmericanFirst1 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I read the history leading up to current events. After reading it and learning the facts of the case I have to say, way to go militia. Trumped up charges and bullying by a tyrannical government from the get go. I support the Hammonds 100%. The claim that the back fire spread to government land is a flat out lie. Retarded commie lib.
Click to expand...


Cause you were there?


----------



## Old Rocks

PredFan said:


> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bundy needs some prison time, he is the head of a terrorist group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What terror? No more terror than what BLM or OWS or the black Panthers do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is the leader of the militia group, and right now is sons have the wildlife sanctuary captive.  He also should be in prison for non payment for grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still not terror, nit wit.
Click to expand...

Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.


----------



## Missourian

Again...we wouldn't even be talking about Hammond's case and the ludicrous sentencing guidelines pursued by the Feds by appealing the original sentence.

Justice was served...the Feds had to keep pushing...now they get what they deserve.  I hope every one of the prosecutors in this case is fired.  We know that is never going to happen,  because the Feds have to save face...but that is what SHOULD happen.


----------



## Missourian

Old Rocks said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bundy needs some prison time, he is the head of a terrorist group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What terror? No more terror than what BLM or OWS or the black Panthers do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is the leader of the militia group, and right now is sons have the wildlife sanctuary captive.  He also should be in prison for non payment for grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still not terror, nit wit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
Click to expand...



Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.


----------



## Old Rocks

PredFan said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour @lsarsour
> We send national guards & military to #Ferguson for protesters & watch on every network but white militia take over a federal building, nah.
> 
> 23:33 - 2 января 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those protesters were setting fires, looting, overturning cars, and blocking highways. These guys are doing none of that.
Click to expand...

Why no, they just threatened the sheriff of Harney County with death. And threatened local people. Especially after the locals told them they were not wanted there. Not only that, there are no locals with them in that occupation. Perhaps the law should just step out of the way, and let the locals take these assholes out.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Larry, Curly and Moe...nyah nyah nyah *


----------



## JimH52

bucs90 said:


> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I read the history leading up to current events. After reading it and learning the facts of the case I have to say, way to go militia. Trumped up charges and bullying by a tyrannical government from the get go. I support the Hammonds 100%. The claim that the back fire spread to government land is a flat out lie. Retarded commie lib.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I admit I haven't read up on it much....and it seems way more complex than a thug robbing a gas station. My initial take is they are committing a crime and need to be charged.
> 
> Is THEIR land being taken? Or have they been using public land and now the government is aware of it and not letting them use it anymore?
Click to expand...


It seems that the initial sentence that the Hammonds received did not meet the sentencing standards.  So now the Government is going back and making them serve the rest of the prescribed sentence.  While it does sound fishy, taking up arms and basically commandeering a federally owned building is not how one should respond.  Especially when the people going to jail want nothing to do with the militia.


----------



## AmericanFirst1

Old Rocks said:


> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammond's played with fire and got burned. Setting fires when you cannot control them is real serious business in that area. They have had some major fires in the past decade, some that destroyed up to 1/3 of some of the ranchers cattle. That represents many years of lost income for a group of people that work extremely hard for the little income they make.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which they already served jail time for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On trumped up charges.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Argue that with the jury made up of people from Harney County.
Click to expand...

Probably payed off jurors.


----------



## basquebromance




----------



## Old Rocks

Missourian said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bundy needs some prison time, he is the head of a terrorist group.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What terror? No more terror than what BLM or OWS or the black Panthers do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is the leader of the militia group, and right now is sons have the wildlife sanctuary captive.  He also should be in prison for non payment for grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still not terror, nit wit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.
Click to expand...

Good grief, yourself, Missouri. This is a part of the country I grew up in. The people there I know well, and have explored Harney County from end to end. Were I living there, I would have been in the parade protesting the re-sentencing of the Hammond's. Had I been on the original jury, I would have voted them guilty.

The militia that are there are there to make trouble. They care nothing about the Hammond's or the people of the area. They are outsiders, and should be sent to jail for a long time.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*white privilege performance art*

*Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff
<snip>
The circumstances of both fires are worth examining. The first occurred in 2001. According to prosecutors, several members of the Hammond family set this fire “less than three hours after Steven Hammond illegally shot several deer on BLM land,” a claim they corroborate by citing testimony from D.H.*, Dwight’s grandson and Steven’s nephew. The fire, moreover, “consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.”

D.H. also testified that his uncle Steven gave him matches and told him to help start the fires. Some time thereafter, D.H. says that he was separated from the rest of his family and found himself surrounded by burning flames. To escape harm he sheltered in a creek.

<snip>

D.H. also testified that, after the first fire, “Dwight told me to keep my mouth shut, that nobody needed to know about the fire, and they didn’t need to know anything about it.” According to D.H., Steven, who was sitting next to Dwight at the time, added that his nephew should “keep mouth shut.” D.H. said that he complied with these instructions because he was “afraid of Steven and Susie .”

D.H. appears to have had good reason to fear his family. In 2004, D.H. told a sheriff’s deputy about several times that he says he was abused. In one incident, Steven allegedly punched D.H. hard enough to knock him to the ground and “took face and rubbed it into the gravel” during an argument over how D.H. was performing his chores. In another incident, after D.H. was cited for being a minor in possession of alcohol, Steven allegedly punished D.H. by driving him ten miles from the family ranch and then making him walk home. In a third incident, after D.H. was cited as a minor in possession of tobacco, Steven allegedly “made him eat two (2) cans of Skoal Smokeless Tobacco and then again walk from Diamond, Oregon to the Hammond Ranch.”

A fourth incident is particularly striking, however. D.H., who reportedly has been diagnosed with depression, used a paper clip to carve the letter “J” into one side of his chest and the letter “S” onto the other side. In response, Steven allegedly “told him that he was not going to let deface the family by carving on himself.” D.H. said that Steven then used sandpaper to remove the carved letters from D.H.’s chest — sanding each side for at least five minutes. Steven also allegedly told D.H. that “he would filet the initials off” his chest if the sandpaper did not work.

<snip>
Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*


----------



## Old Rocks

HappyJoy said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Government has labeled the rancher as a terrorist. He did his time for that and the Government wants him to do a longer sentence. That is Government abuse.
> 
> Why is it OK for a bunch of whining Black guys (Black lives matter) who want to be able to break the law with no consequences, but not a bunch of whining white guys? as you put it.
> 
> Lets face it.
> Our Government has become an abusive overreacting tyrant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont like black lives matter either for the same reason.  Our government is not a tyrant.  The laws are clear and easy to follow.  It's criminals who have the problem with the government.  Don't break the law and you are fine.  Go someplace with a real tyrant and learn.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then what do you call what they just did?
> The retried him on a new charge without a jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they weren't retried. They were sentenced, the feds appealed the sentencing, won that and the Supreme court refused to hear the Hammond's case.  So, I don't see anything illegal happening to them in court.  Whether the sentence fits the crime or not that can be debated.  They set two fires, endangered others and now they are going back to prison for about 4 years.
> 
> I don't see how taking over a federal building while armed changes anything for the Hammonds who don't want them there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They had permission to do the burn it got out of hand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently not because they lost their case and were found guilty. By a jury no doubt...isn't that one of the things you were bitching about?  They were retried without a jury (which is a lie)?
Click to expand...

A jury of people from Harney County. Had they had permission, they would not have been found guilty. The fire they started was downhill from an encampment of BLM firefighters. Their criminal negligence could have killed those people.


----------



## Missourian

Old Rocks said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What terror? No more terror than what BLM or OWS or the black Panthers do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is the leader of the militia group, and right now is sons have the wildlife sanctuary captive.  He also should be in prison for non payment for grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Still not terror, nit wit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief, yourself, Missouri. This is a part of the country I grew up in. The people there I know well, and have explored Harney County from end to end. Were I living there, I would have been in the parade protesting the re-sentencing of the Hammond's. Had I been on the original jury, I would have voted them guilty.
> 
> The militia that are there are there to make trouble. They care nothing about the Hammond's or the people of the area. They are outsiders, and should be sent to jail for a long time.
Click to expand...



How much trouble can they make in an empty building in the middle of nowhere?



 







 

Google Maps

They are making a political statement...nothing more.


----------



## Old Rocks

PredFan said:


> J.E.D said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking for handouts again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure. If the OP wants me to be there, I'll need the air fare.
Click to expand...

Another Welfare 'Conservative'. And then you would need someone to drive you the 50 miles to the Refuge. Might be a bit difficult. In fact, when you mentioned the reason you wanted to go down there, you might have a bit of trouble. LOL


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Old Rocks

PredFan said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another welfare case looking for something for free. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again loser. It's another hard working, over taxed, over regulated American who can't afford to fly all the way to Oregon. If the OP feels so strongly about it, then help a brother out.
Click to expand...

Wah, wah.............  Really? If you are that hard working, why are you that poor? Perhaps there are other jobs than flipping burgers?


----------



## IsaacNewton

DaGoose said:


> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
Click to expand...


I addressed this in another thread. None of them will show up because it would mean actually carrying a weapon and facing people who WILL shoot back.

Gun lickers like to talk big because it makes them feel good, that's all. They'll never actually try to face down the big bad gubment with a weapon because they could get hurt. Its the same battle cry as these people who think they will have a concealed weapon and save the day at some shooting.

99.99% of these people just need to hear themselves talk.


----------



## HappyJoy

Steve_McGarrett said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve_McGarrett said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There has been a lot of nonsense on different threads here about this situation. While I don't know the Hammond's personally, I know a lot of the ranchers in that area, and the Hammond's, from all that I have read, seem little different from most of them. These are independent, hard working, and hardheaded, some would even say pigheaded, people. They have to be. The high desert gives of it lean bounty only to those that are as tough and stubborn as it is. The Hammond's are not thugs, as some have suggested, or even criminals. They come from a culture that is used to doing for themselves, because there is no one else in most of that wonderfully empty country to do for you most of the time. And, acting in that manner, they did something that was criminally stupid. And they have already served just sentences for that stupidity.
> 
> There is no reason for them to go back to jail. Were I there, I would have marched in that protest. However, that in no way justifies what Bundy and his bunch have done. They care nothing about the Hammond's, they are simply crazies trying to start bloodshed.
> 
> Originally, on their arrival in Burns, they stated that they were going to occupy the courthouse and prevent anyone from taking the Hammond's anywhere. After talking to the locals, and being told to keep their scuzzy asses out of this, it was none of their business, they changed their minds. Good thing, had they tried that, the locals would have walked all over those scuzzy asses.
> 
> So, after the march, they went down to occupy the Malhuer Game Reserve. Here I quote from the Oregonian;
> 
> Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers, and miners. He said he met Friday with 10 or so residents in Burns to try to recruit them, but they declined.
> 
> "We went to the local communities and presented it many times and to many differant people". He said. "They were not strong enough to make a stand. So many individuals across the United States and in Oregon are making this stand. We hope that they will grab onto this and realize it has been happening".
> 
> End of quote from the Oregonian.
> 
> So, it is not the locals, it is outsiders that are stirring up this trouble, could not even get 10 people from Burns to go along with them.
> 
> The Governor needs to put the National Guard around all the roads into the Refuge building, and allow nothing in or out. Post cameras, and if one of the locos points a gun at any Natonal Guardsman or law officer, he faces assualt with a deadly charges when this is over. And, when they finally have to come out, all their vehicles and weapons are seized, and they are arrested for criminal trespass. And if there is damage to anything in that building, or the building itself, they face charges for that.
> 
> All their weapons should be seized and destroyed, also. This kind of thing need to come to an end.
> 
> 
> 
> These men will be equal to the men that fought and died at the Alamo. They'll face superior odds, but I feel they will unite everyone who loves what we stand for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah yes, what you stand for. Idiocy and bigotry. Stupidity and senseless bloodshed. Lawlessness and theft.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I stand for Patriotism and Constitutional Rights.
Click to expand...


Apparently you're standing somewhere


Old Rocks said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another welfare case looking for something for free. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again loser. It's another hard working, over taxed, over regulated American who can't afford to fly all the way to Oregon. If the OP feels so strongly about it, then help a brother out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wah, wah.............  Really? If you are that hard working, why are you that poor? Perhaps there are other jobs than flipping burgers?
Click to expand...


Hey could also take Greyhound,  Hell, I bet he can't even afford a ticket on government subsidized AmTrak.  What's poor wingnut with a heart of gold to do?


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dana7360 said:
> 
> 
> 
> On top of that, what peach posted is a lie.
> 
> That land has been government land since 1908.
> 
> The feds have not wanted that land since the 1970s. Because it was already federal land.
> 
> These people are so stupid and such liars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> Bundy Ranch
> In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about the lands they burnt to cover up their poaching?
> 
> And once again, I'll remind you of two things:
> 1. The Hammond's are guilty of arson
> 2. The criminals in the refuge building have nothing to do with the Hammonds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1.Of which they served their time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they haven't.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. No they don't ( I agree), other than 2 ranchers who have held out against the taking of their ranches by the Feds in two different States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol. Nobody is trying to take the Hammonds' ranch or the Bundys' for that matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
Click to expand...

who is trying to take their ranches? how so?


----------



## AmericanFirst1

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *white privilege performance art*
> 
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> *<snip>*
> *The circumstances of both fires are worth examining. The first occurred in 2001. According to prosecutors, several members of the Hammond family set this fire “less than three hours after Steven Hammond illegally shot several deer on BLM land,” a claim they corroborate by citing testimony from D.H.*, Dwight’s grandson and Steven’s nephew. The fire, moreover, “consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.”*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that his uncle Steven gave him matches and told him to help start the fires. Some time thereafter, D.H. says that he was separated from the rest of his family and found himself surrounded by burning flames. To escape harm he sheltered in a creek.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that, after the first fire, “Dwight told me to keep my mouth shut, that nobody needed to know about the fire, and they didn’t need to know anything about it.” According to D.H., Steven, who was sitting next to Dwight at the time, added that his nephew should “keep mouth shut.” D.H. said that he complied with these instructions because he was “afraid of Steven and Susie .”*
> 
> *D.H. appears to have had good reason to fear his family. In 2004, D.H. told a sheriff’s deputy about several times that he says he was abused. In one incident, Steven allegedly punched D.H. hard enough to knock him to the ground and “took face and rubbed it into the gravel” during an argument over how D.H. was performing his chores. In another incident, after D.H. was cited for being a minor in possession of alcohol, Steven allegedly punished D.H. by driving him ten miles from the family ranch and then making him walk home. In a third incident, after D.H. was cited as a minor in possession of tobacco, Steven allegedly “made him eat two (2) cans of Skoal Smokeless Tobacco and then again walk from Diamond, Oregon to the Hammond Ranch.”*
> 
> *A fourth incident is particularly striking, however. D.H., who reportedly has been diagnosed with depression, used a paper clip to carve the letter “J” into one side of his chest and the letter “S” onto the other side. In response, Steven allegedly “told him that he was not going to let deface the family by carving on himself.” D.H. said that Steven then used sandpaper to remove the carved letters from D.H.’s chest — sanding each side for at least five minutes. Steven also allegedly told D.H. that “he would filet the initials off” his chest if the sandpaper did not work.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*


Trumped up. Do some research.


----------



## Missourian

Just think of them as undocumented residents of the building,  just trying to make a better life for themselves.  Think Obama will fight to keep them from being deported from the refuge?


----------



## basquebromance

trump will TERMINATE anything barack hussein obama does on guns. it's ridiculous. trump won't let obama get away with murder!


----------



## ogibillm

AmericanFirst1 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *white privilege performance art*
> 
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> *<snip>*
> *The circumstances of both fires are worth examining. The first occurred in 2001. According to prosecutors, several members of the Hammond family set this fire “less than three hours after Steven Hammond illegally shot several deer on BLM land,” a claim they corroborate by citing testimony from D.H.*, Dwight’s grandson and Steven’s nephew. The fire, moreover, “consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.”*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that his uncle Steven gave him matches and told him to help start the fires. Some time thereafter, D.H. says that he was separated from the rest of his family and found himself surrounded by burning flames. To escape harm he sheltered in a creek.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that, after the first fire, “Dwight told me to keep my mouth shut, that nobody needed to know about the fire, and they didn’t need to know anything about it.” According to D.H., Steven, who was sitting next to Dwight at the time, added that his nephew should “keep mouth shut.” D.H. said that he complied with these instructions because he was “afraid of Steven and Susie .”*
> 
> *D.H. appears to have had good reason to fear his family. In 2004, D.H. told a sheriff’s deputy about several times that he says he was abused. In one incident, Steven allegedly punched D.H. hard enough to knock him to the ground and “took face and rubbed it into the gravel” during an argument over how D.H. was performing his chores. In another incident, after D.H. was cited for being a minor in possession of alcohol, Steven allegedly punished D.H. by driving him ten miles from the family ranch and then making him walk home. In a third incident, after D.H. was cited as a minor in possession of tobacco, Steven allegedly “made him eat two (2) cans of Skoal Smokeless Tobacco and then again walk from Diamond, Oregon to the Hammond Ranch.”*
> 
> *A fourth incident is particularly striking, however. D.H., who reportedly has been diagnosed with depression, used a paper clip to carve the letter “J” into one side of his chest and the letter “S” onto the other side. In response, Steven allegedly “told him that he was not going to let deface the family by carving on himself.” D.H. said that Steven then used sandpaper to remove the carved letters from D.H.’s chest — sanding each side for at least five minutes. Steven also allegedly told D.H. that “he would filet the initials off” his chest if the sandpaper did not work.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up. Do some research.
Click to expand...

how so? did they set the fires or not?


----------



## bodecea

Missourian said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is the leader of the militia group, and right now is sons have the wildlife sanctuary captive.  He also should be in prison for non payment for grazing rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still not terror, nit wit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief, yourself, Missouri. This is a part of the country I grew up in. The people there I know well, and have explored Harney County from end to end. Were I living there, I would have been in the parade protesting the re-sentencing of the Hammond's. Had I been on the original jury, I would have voted them guilty.
> 
> The militia that are there are there to make trouble. They care nothing about the Hammond's or the people of the area. They are outsiders, and should be sent to jail for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much trouble can they make in an empty building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> View attachment 58797
> 
> View attachment 58796
> 
> View attachment 58798
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> They are making a political statement...nothing more.
Click to expand...

Good point...one tactical nuke...no harm elsewhere.


----------



## AmericanFirst1

ogibillm said:


> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *white privilege performance art*
> 
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> *<snip>*
> *The circumstances of both fires are worth examining. The first occurred in 2001. According to prosecutors, several members of the Hammond family set this fire “less than three hours after Steven Hammond illegally shot several deer on BLM land,” a claim they corroborate by citing testimony from D.H.*, Dwight’s grandson and Steven’s nephew. The fire, moreover, “consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.”*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that his uncle Steven gave him matches and told him to help start the fires. Some time thereafter, D.H. says that he was separated from the rest of his family and found himself surrounded by burning flames. To escape harm he sheltered in a creek.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that, after the first fire, “Dwight told me to keep my mouth shut, that nobody needed to know about the fire, and they didn’t need to know anything about it.” According to D.H., Steven, who was sitting next to Dwight at the time, added that his nephew should “keep mouth shut.” D.H. said that he complied with these instructions because he was “afraid of Steven and Susie .”*
> 
> *D.H. appears to have had good reason to fear his family. In 2004, D.H. told a sheriff’s deputy about several times that he says he was abused. In one incident, Steven allegedly punched D.H. hard enough to knock him to the ground and “took face and rubbed it into the gravel” during an argument over how D.H. was performing his chores. In another incident, after D.H. was cited for being a minor in possession of alcohol, Steven allegedly punished D.H. by driving him ten miles from the family ranch and then making him walk home. In a third incident, after D.H. was cited as a minor in possession of tobacco, Steven allegedly “made him eat two (2) cans of Skoal Smokeless Tobacco and then again walk from Diamond, Oregon to the Hammond Ranch.”*
> 
> *A fourth incident is particularly striking, however. D.H., who reportedly has been diagnosed with depression, used a paper clip to carve the letter “J” into one side of his chest and the letter “S” onto the other side. In response, Steven allegedly “told him that he was not going to let deface the family by carving on himself.” D.H. said that Steven then used sandpaper to remove the carved letters from D.H.’s chest — sanding each side for at least five minutes. Steven also allegedly told D.H. that “he would filet the initials off” his chest if the sandpaper did not work.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up. Do some research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how so? did they set the fires or not?
Click to expand...

Not from what I read.


----------



## LoneLaugher

PredFan said:


> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
Click to expand...


Now THAT's a patriot who is behind the cause 100%!


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> Bundy Ranch
> In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> 
> 
> How about the lands they burnt to cover up their poaching?
> 
> And once again, I'll remind you of two things:
> 1. The Hammond's are guilty of arson
> 2. The criminals in the refuge building have nothing to do with the Hammonds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1.Of which they served their time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they haven't.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. No they don't ( I agree), other than 2 ranchers who have held out against the taking of their ranches by the Feds in two different States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol. Nobody is trying to take the Hammonds' ranch or the Bundys' for that matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who is trying to take their ranches? how so?
Click to expand...


Read the link


----------



## AmericanFirst1

bucs90 said:


> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I read the history leading up to current events. After reading it and learning the facts of the case I have to say, way to go militia. Trumped up charges and bullying by a tyrannical government from the get go. I support the Hammonds 100%. The claim that the back fire spread to government land is a flat out lie. Retarded commie lib.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I admit I haven't read up on it much....and it seems way more complex than a thug robbing a gas station. My initial take is they are committing a crime and need to be charged.
> 
> Is THEIR land being taken? Or have they been using public land and now the government is aware of it and not letting them use it anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. From what I read all the charges are trumped up to get their land. The backfire  to stop the spread of a wildfire was started on their land and was successful, never spread to government land. The government got mad when they received water rights. I support the Hammonds 100% in this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it was an imminent domain type land seizure?? If it was their land and the government is seizing it....I support their cause opposing that because imminent domain is bullshit.
> 
> However....I cannot support their seizure of the Federal building. There is a way to do things and that isn't it.
Click to expand...

Go to the conservativetreehouse.com, long read.


----------



## LoneLaugher

basquebromance said:


>



Yes. You are a nutbag. And the government is elected.


----------



## Missourian

bodecea said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still not terror, nit wit.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief, yourself, Missouri. This is a part of the country I grew up in. The people there I know well, and have explored Harney County from end to end. Were I living there, I would have been in the parade protesting the re-sentencing of the Hammond's. Had I been on the original jury, I would have voted them guilty.
> 
> The militia that are there are there to make trouble. They care nothing about the Hammond's or the people of the area. They are outsiders, and should be sent to jail for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much trouble can they make in an empty building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> View attachment 58797
> 
> View attachment 58796
> 
> View attachment 58798
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> They are making a political statement...nothing more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good point...one tactical nuke...no harm elsewhere.
Click to expand...



I'd give you a hard time,  if I didn't know you were kidding.


----------



## LoneLaugher

basquebromance said:


> trump will TERMINATE anything barack hussein obama does on guns. it's ridiculous. trump won't let obama get away with murder!



Cool. You think Trump will become POTUS? Add your name to the list.


----------



## basquebromance

this is a total ruse! this is classic obama! this is a sleight of hand! when president obama leaves office, he needs to start a magic show. this wouldn't have stopped sandy hook, san bernardino, aurora....not a one! not a one! he keeps talking about the gun show loophole...there is no gun show loophole. that is one of the great myths. mental health is the solution. mental health. mental health.


----------



## ogibillm

AmericanFirst1 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *white privilege performance art*
> 
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> *<snip>*
> *The circumstances of both fires are worth examining. The first occurred in 2001. According to prosecutors, several members of the Hammond family set this fire “less than three hours after Steven Hammond illegally shot several deer on BLM land,” a claim they corroborate by citing testimony from D.H.*, Dwight’s grandson and Steven’s nephew. The fire, moreover, “consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.”*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that his uncle Steven gave him matches and told him to help start the fires. Some time thereafter, D.H. says that he was separated from the rest of his family and found himself surrounded by burning flames. To escape harm he sheltered in a creek.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that, after the first fire, “Dwight told me to keep my mouth shut, that nobody needed to know about the fire, and they didn’t need to know anything about it.” According to D.H., Steven, who was sitting next to Dwight at the time, added that his nephew should “keep mouth shut.” D.H. said that he complied with these instructions because he was “afraid of Steven and Susie .”*
> 
> *D.H. appears to have had good reason to fear his family. In 2004, D.H. told a sheriff’s deputy about several times that he says he was abused. In one incident, Steven allegedly punched D.H. hard enough to knock him to the ground and “took face and rubbed it into the gravel” during an argument over how D.H. was performing his chores. In another incident, after D.H. was cited for being a minor in possession of alcohol, Steven allegedly punished D.H. by driving him ten miles from the family ranch and then making him walk home. In a third incident, after D.H. was cited as a minor in possession of tobacco, Steven allegedly “made him eat two (2) cans of Skoal Smokeless Tobacco and then again walk from Diamond, Oregon to the Hammond Ranch.”*
> 
> *A fourth incident is particularly striking, however. D.H., who reportedly has been diagnosed with depression, used a paper clip to carve the letter “J” into one side of his chest and the letter “S” onto the other side. In response, Steven allegedly “told him that he was not going to let deface the family by carving on himself.” D.H. said that Steven then used sandpaper to remove the carved letters from D.H.’s chest — sanding each side for at least five minutes. Steven also allegedly told D.H. that “he would filet the initials off” his chest if the sandpaper did not work.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up. Do some research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how so? did they set the fires or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not from what I read.
Click to expand...

lol. then stop reading batshit crazy sources because nobody, including the hammonds, disputes that they set the fires


----------



## ogibillm

AmericanFirst1 said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I read the history leading up to current events. After reading it and learning the facts of the case I have to say, way to go militia. Trumped up charges and bullying by a tyrannical government from the get go. I support the Hammonds 100%. The claim that the back fire spread to government land is a flat out lie. Retarded commie lib.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I admit I haven't read up on it much....and it seems way more complex than a thug robbing a gas station. My initial take is they are committing a crime and need to be charged.
> 
> Is THEIR land being taken? Or have they been using public land and now the government is aware of it and not letting them use it anymore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No. From what I read all the charges are trumped up to get their land. The backfire  to stop the spread of a wildfire was started on their land and was successful, never spread to government land. The government got mad when they received water rights. I support the Hammonds 100% in this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it was an imminent domain type land seizure?? If it was their land and the government is seizing it....I support their cause opposing that because imminent domain is bullshit.
> 
> However....I cannot support their seizure of the Federal building. There is a way to do things and that isn't it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go to the conservativetreehouse.com, long read.
Click to expand...

why. would. anybody. subject. themselves. to. that?


----------



## basquebromance

LoneLaugher said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> trump will TERMINATE anything barack hussein obama does on guns. it's ridiculous. trump won't let obama get away with murder!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. You think Trump will become POTUS? Add your name to the list.
Click to expand...


who do you think will win smartypants?!


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about the lands they burnt to cover up their poaching?
> 
> And once again, I'll remind you of two things:
> 1. The Hammond's are guilty of arson
> 2. The criminals in the refuge building have nothing to do with the Hammonds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.Of which they served their time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they haven't.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. No they don't ( I agree), other than 2 ranchers who have held out against the taking of their ranches by the Feds in two different States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol. Nobody is trying to take the Hammonds' ranch or the Bundys' for that matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who is trying to take their ranches? how so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the link
Click to expand...

back to 'nobody' then.

here's a hint - just because a bundy says it doesn't make it true


----------



## Spinster

White guys do that???


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Audubon Society: Statement on Armed Bundy Terrorists' Malheur Occupation*
*Audubon Society of Portland: Statement on the Occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge* 
By Bob Sallinger * Jan. 3, 2016 * Portland Audubon 

Malheur National Wildlife Refuge was established in 1908 by President Theodore Roosevelt to protect the vast populations of waterbirds that were being decimated by wanton killing by the plume trade. The 188,000 acre refuge represents some of the most important bird habitat on the Pacific Flyway. It is one of the crown jewels of the National Wildlife Refuge System and belongs to all Americans. In 2013, the Refuge adopted a long-term management plan developed through an inclusive collaborative process that brought together the local community, tribes, conservation groups, state and federal agencies, and other stakeholders. These stakeholders have continued to work together to implement this strategy which includes one of the biggest wetland restoration efforts ever undertaken. 

_*The occupation of Malheur by armed, out of state militia groups puts one of America’s most important wildlife refuges at risk. It violates the most basic principles of the Public Trust Doctrine and holds hostage public lands and public resources to serve the very narrow political agenda of the occupiers.*_ The occupiers have used the flimsiest of pretexts to justify their actions—the conviction of two local ranchers in a case involving arson and poaching on public lands. Notably, neither the local community or the individuals convicted have requested or endorsed the occupation or the assistance of militia groups. 

Portland Audubon fought 100 years ago to protect this incredible place. The powerful images taken by Portland Audubon founder, William Finley, of Malheur’s incredible bird populations and the wanton killing that was being inflicted upon them, caused President Roosevelt to make Malheur one of the first wildlife refuges in the Western United States. Portland Audubon calls upon the local, state and federal authorities to once again protect this incredible place for the amazing wildlife that live there and to preserve this natural heritage for current and future generations. Portland Audubon greatly appreciates the outstanding federal employees that staff the refuge, as well as members of the local community who have rejected this occupation. *We hope for a safe, expeditious end to this armed occupation so that the myriad of local and non-local stakeholders can continue to work together to restore Malheur in ways that are supportive of both the local ecology and the local economy—the occupiers are serving nobody’s interests except their own.* 

MORE: Audubon Society of Portland Statement on the Occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge — Audubon Society of Portland


----------



## BULLDOG

basquebromance said:


> this is a total ruse! this is classic obama! this is a sleight of hand! when president obama leaves office, he needs to start a magic show. this wouldn't have stopped sandy hook, san bernardino, aurora....not a one! not a one! he keeps talking about the gun show loophole...there is no gun show loophole. that is one of the great myths. mental health is the solution. mental health. mental health.




After reading your posts, I can see why mental health seems so important to you, and I hope you are able to get some soon.


----------



## BULLDOG

PredFan said:


> J.E.D said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking for handouts again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure. If the OP wants me to be there, I'll need the air fare.
Click to expand...



So you're not just a coward, you're a cheap coward.


----------



## Dot Com

Missourian said:


> I read the article about the fires and the sentencing...apparently,  environmentalists want the Hammond land,  and the government is doing all they can to get it.


if you did  you'd have known the fires were set on "leased" BLM land hack boi


----------



## Mad Scientist

ClosedCaption said:


> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.


Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?


----------



## Skylar

ogibillm said:


> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *white privilege performance art*
> 
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> *<snip>*
> *The circumstances of both fires are worth examining. The first occurred in 2001. According to prosecutors, several members of the Hammond family set this fire “less than three hours after Steven Hammond illegally shot several deer on BLM land,” a claim they corroborate by citing testimony from D.H.*, Dwight’s grandson and Steven’s nephew. The fire, moreover, “consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.”*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that his uncle Steven gave him matches and told him to help start the fires. Some time thereafter, D.H. says that he was separated from the rest of his family and found himself surrounded by burning flames. To escape harm he sheltered in a creek.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that, after the first fire, “Dwight told me to keep my mouth shut, that nobody needed to know about the fire, and they didn’t need to know anything about it.” According to D.H., Steven, who was sitting next to Dwight at the time, added that his nephew should “keep mouth shut.” D.H. said that he complied with these instructions because he was “afraid of Steven and Susie .”*
> 
> *D.H. appears to have had good reason to fear his family. In 2004, D.H. told a sheriff’s deputy about several times that he says he was abused. In one incident, Steven allegedly punched D.H. hard enough to knock him to the ground and “took face and rubbed it into the gravel” during an argument over how D.H. was performing his chores. In another incident, after D.H. was cited for being a minor in possession of alcohol, Steven allegedly punished D.H. by driving him ten miles from the family ranch and then making him walk home. In a third incident, after D.H. was cited as a minor in possession of tobacco, Steven allegedly “made him eat two (2) cans of Skoal Smokeless Tobacco and then again walk from Diamond, Oregon to the Hammond Ranch.”*
> 
> *A fourth incident is particularly striking, however. D.H., who reportedly has been diagnosed with depression, used a paper clip to carve the letter “J” into one side of his chest and the letter “S” onto the other side. In response, Steven allegedly “told him that he was not going to let deface the family by carving on himself.” D.H. said that Steven then used sandpaper to remove the carved letters from D.H.’s chest — sanding each side for at least five minutes. Steven also allegedly told D.H. that “he would filet the initials off” his chest if the sandpaper did not work.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up. Do some research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how so? did they set the fires or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not from what I read.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol. then stop reading batshit crazy sources because nobody, including the hammonds, disputes that they set the fires
Click to expand...


The only thing in dispute is why they set them. The Hammonds say it was to protect them from fire danger. The prosecutor said it was to cover up evidence of poaching.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

the terrorists need to be arrested ...


----------



## LoneLaugher

basquebromance said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> trump will TERMINATE anything barack hussein obama does on guns. it's ridiculous. trump won't let obama get away with murder!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. You think Trump will become POTUS? Add your name to the list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> who do you think will win smartypants?!
Click to expand...


Probably a democrat, given the demographics and the GOP platform. Certainly not Trump....ya dupe ya.


----------



## ogibillm

Skylar said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *white privilege performance art*
> 
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> *<snip>*
> *The circumstances of both fires are worth examining. The first occurred in 2001. According to prosecutors, several members of the Hammond family set this fire “less than three hours after Steven Hammond illegally shot several deer on BLM land,” a claim they corroborate by citing testimony from D.H.*, Dwight’s grandson and Steven’s nephew. The fire, moreover, “consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.”*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that his uncle Steven gave him matches and told him to help start the fires. Some time thereafter, D.H. says that he was separated from the rest of his family and found himself surrounded by burning flames. To escape harm he sheltered in a creek.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that, after the first fire, “Dwight told me to keep my mouth shut, that nobody needed to know about the fire, and they didn’t need to know anything about it.” According to D.H., Steven, who was sitting next to Dwight at the time, added that his nephew should “keep mouth shut.” D.H. said that he complied with these instructions because he was “afraid of Steven and Susie .”*
> 
> *D.H. appears to have had good reason to fear his family. In 2004, D.H. told a sheriff’s deputy about several times that he says he was abused. In one incident, Steven allegedly punched D.H. hard enough to knock him to the ground and “took face and rubbed it into the gravel” during an argument over how D.H. was performing his chores. In another incident, after D.H. was cited for being a minor in possession of alcohol, Steven allegedly punished D.H. by driving him ten miles from the family ranch and then making him walk home. In a third incident, after D.H. was cited as a minor in possession of tobacco, Steven allegedly “made him eat two (2) cans of Skoal Smokeless Tobacco and then again walk from Diamond, Oregon to the Hammond Ranch.”*
> 
> *A fourth incident is particularly striking, however. D.H., who reportedly has been diagnosed with depression, used a paper clip to carve the letter “J” into one side of his chest and the letter “S” onto the other side. In response, Steven allegedly “told him that he was not going to let deface the family by carving on himself.” D.H. said that Steven then used sandpaper to remove the carved letters from D.H.’s chest — sanding each side for at least five minutes. Steven also allegedly told D.H. that “he would filet the initials off” his chest if the sandpaper did not work.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up. Do some research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how so? did they set the fires or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not from what I read.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol. then stop reading batshit crazy sources because nobody, including the hammonds, disputes that they set the fires
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only thing in dispute is why they set them. The Hammonds say it was to protect them from fire danger. The prosecutor said it was to cover up evidence of poaching.
Click to expand...

exactly. neither of which matters now because they have been found guilty


----------



## ABikerSailor

The people that they are "defending" don't want them there, the local population doesn't want them there, so why are they still there?

Oh yeah.................forgot..................rw nutjobs have to find some way to seem relevant, so loud screaming about nothing seems to work for them.

I say, round 'em all up, put them in jail for about 6 months, and confiscate and destroy any weapons found at the compound.


----------



## Dot Com

Skylar said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *white privilege performance art*
> 
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> *<snip>*
> *The circumstances of both fires are worth examining. The first occurred in 2001. According to prosecutors, several members of the Hammond family set this fire “less than three hours after Steven Hammond illegally shot several deer on BLM land,” a claim they corroborate by citing testimony from D.H.*, Dwight’s grandson and Steven’s nephew. The fire, moreover, “consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.”*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that his uncle Steven gave him matches and told him to help start the fires. Some time thereafter, D.H. says that he was separated from the rest of his family and found himself surrounded by burning flames. To escape harm he sheltered in a creek.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> 
> *D.H. also testified that, after the first fire, “Dwight told me to keep my mouth shut, that nobody needed to know about the fire, and they didn’t need to know anything about it.” According to D.H., Steven, who was sitting next to Dwight at the time, added that his nephew should “keep mouth shut.” D.H. said that he complied with these instructions because he was “afraid of Steven and Susie .”*
> 
> *D.H. appears to have had good reason to fear his family. In 2004, D.H. told a sheriff’s deputy about several times that he says he was abused. In one incident, Steven allegedly punched D.H. hard enough to knock him to the ground and “took face and rubbed it into the gravel” during an argument over how D.H. was performing his chores. In another incident, after D.H. was cited for being a minor in possession of alcohol, Steven allegedly punished D.H. by driving him ten miles from the family ranch and then making him walk home. In a third incident, after D.H. was cited as a minor in possession of tobacco, Steven allegedly “made him eat two (2) cans of Skoal Smokeless Tobacco and then again walk from Diamond, Oregon to the Hammond Ranch.”*
> 
> *A fourth incident is particularly striking, however. D.H., who reportedly has been diagnosed with depression, used a paper clip to carve the letter “J” into one side of his chest and the letter “S” onto the other side. In response, Steven allegedly “told him that he was not going to let deface the family by carving on himself.” D.H. said that Steven then used sandpaper to remove the carved letters from D.H.’s chest — sanding each side for at least five minutes. Steven also allegedly told D.H. that “he would filet the initials off” his chest if the sandpaper did not work.*
> 
> *<snip>*
> *Meet The Child-Abusing Arsonists That Inspired The Oregon Militia Standoff*
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up. Do some research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how so? did they set the fires or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not from what I read.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol. then stop reading batshit crazy sources because nobody, including the hammonds, disputes that they set the fires
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only thing in dispute is why they set them. The Hammonds say it was to protect them from fire danger. The prosecutor said it was to cover up evidence of poaching.
Click to expand...

what is NOT in dispute is that firefighters had to leave the scene where they were doing coordinated work as their lives were unnecessarily  put at risk


----------



## Dot Com

If they are so upstanding and their cause so just, they should go about it the right way by running for office and then changing the law through the American process  INSTEAD, they go the reality television-route.


----------



## Skylar

ogibillm said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AmericanFirst1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up. Do some research.
> 
> 
> 
> how so? did they set the fires or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not from what I read.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol. then stop reading batshit crazy sources because nobody, including the hammonds, disputes that they set the fires
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only thing in dispute is why they set them. The Hammonds say it was to protect them from fire danger. The prosecutor said it was to cover up evidence of poaching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly. neither of which matters now because they have been found guilty
Click to expand...


I'm not unsympathetic to the Hammonds' situation. I think the government is going too far. And I wouldn't have a problem with a protest of their conviction. I wouldn't even have a problem with protesters doing a sit in on the federal building.

_But right here:_



> "If force is used against us, we would defend ourselves," protest spokesman Ammon Bundy says"
> 
> Armed group takes over Oregon wildlife refuge building  - CNN.com



Is where they go from protesters to Seditious Conspirators. As that's no longer a peaceful protest. But an armed seizure.


----------



## Skylar

Dot Com said:


> If they are so upstanding and their cause so just, they should go about it the right way by running for office and then changing the law through the American process  INSTEAD, they go the reality television-route.



They are trying to forward the idea that any group of 15 dudes is 'The People' and can consequently decide how the constitution is to be interpreted.

Its a half assed sovereign citizen argument.


----------



## Missourian

Dot Com said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read the article about the fires and the sentencing...apparently,  environmentalists want the Hammond land,  and the government is doing all they can to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> if you did  you'd have known the fires were set on "leased" BLM land hack boi
Click to expand...



One of the fires, set in 2001, was a prescribed burn on Hammond’s private property; a routine range improvement practice. The other fire, set on Hammond’s private property in 2006, was a back-burn intended to protect the ranch’s winter pasture from a lightening fire on adjacent federal land.

Ranchers face added jail time for BLM fire | TSLN.com​
Now please STFU and let the honest adults talks,  Ms Stolen Valor.
​


----------



## Dot Com

I can se a rw welfare/panhandling (gofundme) campaign right around the corner and the rubes will be more than happy to support the deadbeats.


----------



## Dot Com

Missourian said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read the article about the fires and the sentencing...apparently,  environmentalists want the Hammond land,  and the government is doing all they can to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> if you did  you'd have known the fires were set on "leased" BLM land hack boi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One of the fires, set in 2001, was a prescribed burn on Hammond’s private property; a routine range improvement practice. The other fire, set on Hammond’s private property in 2006, was a back-burn intended to protect the ranch’s winter pasture from a lightening fire on adjacent federal land.
> 
> Ranchers face added jail time for BLM fire | TSLN.com​
> Now please STFU and let the honest adults talks,  Ms Stolen Valor.
> ​
Click to expand...

Whats "TLSN"? Never heard of it

Anyway:

Ranchers Report to California Prison Amid Armed Standoff


> Dwight Hammond Jr., 74, and his son, Steven Hammond, 46, were convicted three years ago of setting fires in 2001 and 2006 on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, "on which the *Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation," according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office*.



Also, post-up anything from St. Louis (where I got duplicates of my DD-214) you have proving I'm not a vet. IP addressees won't give you that data son


----------



## AvgGuyIA

I am for the people and totally opposed to the Obama regime.


----------



## Skylar

AvgGuyIA said:


> I am for the people and totally opposed to the Obama regime.



Ammon Bundy isn't 'the people'.


----------



## Dot Com

Skylar said:


> AvgGuyIA said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am for the people and totally opposed to the Obama regime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy isn't 'the people'.
Click to expand...

True. Looks like hes gearing-up to get a Kardashian-type show for hisself


----------



## Skylar

Dot Com said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AvgGuyIA said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am for the people and totally opposed to the Obama regime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy isn't 'the people'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True. Looks like hes gearing-up to get a Kardashian-type show for hisself
Click to expand...


He's getting a collective face palm from both the Hammonds and Bend residents in general. Overwhelmingly, they don't want him there.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Confronted with unarmed blacks, law enforcement goes in for the beat-down. Confronted with armed white guys, they prefer to wait and see…*Its easy to see White Privilege *


----------



## JimH52

Missourian said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Penelope said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is the leader of the militia group, and right now is sons have the wildlife sanctuary captive.  He also should be in prison for non payment for grazing rights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still not terror, nit wit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief, yourself, Missouri. This is a part of the country I grew up in. The people there I know well, and have explored Harney County from end to end. Were I living there, I would have been in the parade protesting the re-sentencing of the Hammond's. Had I been on the original jury, I would have voted them guilty.
> 
> The militia that are there are there to make trouble. They care nothing about the Hammond's or the people of the area. They are outsiders, and should be sent to jail for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much trouble can they make in an empty building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> View attachment 58797
> 
> View attachment 58796
> 
> View attachment 58798
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> They are making a political statement...nothing more.
Click to expand...


Good!  Then they don't need electricity or water or heat or food.  I don't want my taxes paying for any of their welfare!


----------



## Missourian

Dot Com said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read the article about the fires and the sentencing...apparently,  environmentalists want the Hammond land,  and the government is doing all they can to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> if you did  you'd have known the fires were set on "leased" BLM land hack boi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One of the fires, set in 2001, was a prescribed burn on Hammond’s private property; a routine range improvement practice. The other fire, set on Hammond’s private property in 2006, was a back-burn intended to protect the ranch’s winter pasture from a lightening fire on adjacent federal land.
> 
> Ranchers face added jail time for BLM fire | TSLN.com​
> Now please STFU and let the honest adults talks,  Ms Stolen Valor.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Whats "TLSN"? Never heard of it
> 
> Anyway:
> 
> Ranchers Report to California Prison Amid Armed Standoff
> 
> 
> 
> Dwight Hammond Jr., 74, and his son, Steven Hammond, 46, were convicted three years ago of setting fires in 2001 and 2006 on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, "on which the *Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation," according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office*.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



You should read more in depth...then you would know that the fires were started on private property and SPREAD to the BLM leased land.

​
Now go away,  before I taunt you a second time.


----------



## Missourian

JimH52 said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still not terror, nit wit.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief, yourself, Missouri. This is a part of the country I grew up in. The people there I know well, and have explored Harney County from end to end. Were I living there, I would have been in the parade protesting the re-sentencing of the Hammond's. Had I been on the original jury, I would have voted them guilty.
> 
> The militia that are there are there to make trouble. They care nothing about the Hammond's or the people of the area. They are outsiders, and should be sent to jail for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much trouble can they make in an empty building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> View attachment 58797
> 
> View attachment 58796
> 
> View attachment 58798
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> They are making a political statement...nothing more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good!  Then they don't need electricity or water or heat or food.  I don't want my taxes paying for any of their welfare!
Click to expand...



I'm sure they are all turned off already.  Let's wait and see what difference that makes.

While you wouldn't last through the night..I doubt if these folks even notice.


----------



## Katzndogz

JimH52 said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still not terror, nit wit.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief, yourself, Missouri. This is a part of the country I grew up in. The people there I know well, and have explored Harney County from end to end. Were I living there, I would have been in the parade protesting the re-sentencing of the Hammond's. Had I been on the original jury, I would have voted them guilty.
> 
> The militia that are there are there to make trouble. They care nothing about the Hammond's or the people of the area. They are outsiders, and should be sent to jail for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much trouble can they make in an empty building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> View attachment 58797
> 
> View attachment 58796
> 
> View attachment 58798
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> They are making a political statement...nothing more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good!  Then they don't need electricity or water or heat or food.  I don't want my taxes paying for any of their welfare!
Click to expand...

You would really threaten survivalists by taking away their welfare !  Do you think they are black?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

<----*wahh wahhh I am white I deserve special treatment wah wah......*


----------



## Katzndogz

Missourian said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief, yourself, Missouri. This is a part of the country I grew up in. The people there I know well, and have explored Harney County from end to end. Were I living there, I would have been in the parade protesting the re-sentencing of the Hammond's. Had I been on the original jury, I would have voted them guilty.
> 
> The militia that are there are there to make trouble. They care nothing about the Hammond's or the people of the area. They are outsiders, and should be sent to jail for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much trouble can they make in an empty building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> View attachment 58797
> 
> View attachment 58796
> 
> View attachment 58798
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> They are making a political statement...nothing more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good!  Then they don't need electricity or water or heat or food.  I don't want my taxes paying for any of their welfare!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure they are all turned off already.  Let's wait and see what difference that makes.
> 
> While you wouldn't last through the night..I doubt it makes any difference to these folks.
Click to expand...

I don't think that building had much in the way of services.  It was probably self contained like a lot of remote structures are.


----------



## Dot Com

Tipsycatlover said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief, yourself, Missouri. This is a part of the country I grew up in. The people there I know well, and have explored Harney County from end to end. Were I living there, I would have been in the parade protesting the re-sentencing of the Hammond's. Had I been on the original jury, I would have voted them guilty.
> 
> The militia that are there are there to make trouble. They care nothing about the Hammond's or the people of the area. They are outsiders, and should be sent to jail for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much trouble can they make in an empty building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> View attachment 58797
> 
> View attachment 58796
> 
> View attachment 58798
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> They are making a political statement...nothing more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good!  Then they don't need electricity or water or heat or food.  I don't want my taxes paying for any of their welfare!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would really threaten survivalists by taking away their welfare !  Do you think they are black?
Click to expand...

quoted for truth. rw racism plays a big part in this


----------



## Katzndogz

Telling the truth is always going to be racist.   However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.  When check day comes,  they want a post office near by.


----------



## basquebromance

LoneLaugher said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> trump will TERMINATE anything barack hussein obama does on guns. it's ridiculous. trump won't let obama get away with murder!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. You think Trump will become POTUS? Add your name to the list.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> who do you think will win smartypants?!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably a democrat, given the demographics and the GOP platform. Certainly not Trump....ya dupe ya.
Click to expand...


you're biased


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.Of which they served their time.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. No they don't ( I agree), other than 2 ranchers who have held out against the taking of their ranches by the Feds in two different States.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol. Nobody is trying to take the Hammonds' ranch or the Bundys' for that matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who is trying to take their ranches? how so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> back to 'nobody' then.
> 
> here's a hint - just because a bundy says it doesn't make it true
Click to expand...



That's true.
But I will take Bundy's word over the BLM thugs.
I base that on my own experience with my Rancher friends here in southern AZ who have fought them and their thug tactics over the last 30 years.


----------



## Skylar

Mad Scientist said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
Click to expand...


Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.

And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.


----------



## basquebromance

DONALD J TRUMP WOULD REVERSE BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA'S ACTIONS IN THE FIRST HOUR OF HIS PRESIDENCY!


----------



## ABikerSailor

I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?


----------



## peach174

JimH52 said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still not terror, nit wit.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone grabs federal buildings with a group of people armed to the teeth, and that is not a form of terrorism? They then call for armed rebellion against the local and federal government. These people really should be prosecuted for treason.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief Rocks...quit shitting your panties.  Just imagine it's Black Lives Matter and all your anxiety will just melt away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good grief, yourself, Missouri. This is a part of the country I grew up in. The people there I know well, and have explored Harney County from end to end. Were I living there, I would have been in the parade protesting the re-sentencing of the Hammond's. Had I been on the original jury, I would have voted them guilty.
> 
> The militia that are there are there to make trouble. They care nothing about the Hammond's or the people of the area. They are outsiders, and should be sent to jail for a long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How much trouble can they make in an empty building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> View attachment 58797
> 
> View attachment 58796
> 
> View attachment 58798
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> They are making a political statement...nothing more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good!  Then they don't need electricity or water or heat or food.  I don't want my taxes paying for any of their welfare!
Click to expand...



They aren't in the buildings.
They have their own 5th wheels.


----------



## Manonthestreet

Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down' Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down'


----------



## basquebromance




----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Skylar

Manonthestreet said:


> Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down' Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down'



Well the law of averages finally came through. I agree with Ted Cruz on something.


----------



## basquebromance




----------



## ABikerSailor

basquebromance said:


>



The picture looks like someone from the ME, because the cammo pattern and the way the uniform is cut are NOT American military issue.

Besides, only terrorists carry machetes for beheading.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Skylar

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't.
> Lol. Nobody is trying to take the Hammonds' ranch or the Bundys' for that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who is trying to take their ranches? how so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> back to 'nobody' then.
> 
> here's a hint - just because a bundy says it doesn't make it true
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true.
> But I will take Bundy's word over the BLM thugs.
> I base that on my own experience with my Rancher friends here in southern AZ who have fought them and their thug tactics over the last 30 years.
Click to expand...


They are complaining about a purchase made in 1908 that they insist was 'unconstitutional'. Apparently because they say so.


----------



## PredFan

Old Rocks said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Linda Sarsour @lsarsour
> We send national guards & military to #Ferguson for protesters & watch on every network but white militia take over a federal building, nah.
> 
> 23:33 - 2 января 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those protesters were setting fires, looting, overturning cars, and blocking highways. These guys are doing none of that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why no, they just threatened the sheriff of Harney County with death. And threatened local people. Especially after the locals told them they were not wanted there. Not only that, there are no locals with them in that occupation. Perhaps the law should just step out of the way, and let the locals take these assholes out.
Click to expand...


Link liar?


----------



## PredFan

Old Rocks said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J.E.D said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looking for handouts again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure. If the OP wants me to be there, I'll need the air fare.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another Welfare 'Conservative'. And then you would need someone to drive you the 50 miles to the Refuge. Might be a bit difficult. In fact, when you mentioned the reason you wanted to go down there, you might have a bit of trouble. LOL
Click to expand...


If you think that you can win an argument by that lame assed insult then you are a lot dumber than I had previously thought you were.


----------



## peach174

Skylar said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> 
> 
> 
> who is trying to take their ranches? how so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> back to 'nobody' then.
> 
> here's a hint - just because a bundy says it doesn't make it true
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true.
> But I will take Bundy's word over the BLM thugs.
> I base that on my own experience with my Rancher friends here in southern AZ who have fought them and their thug tactics over the last 30 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are complaining about a purchase made in 1908 that they insist was 'unconstitutional'. Apparently because they say so.
Click to expand...


No they aren't.


----------



## basquebromance

we need Obama control!


----------



## PredFan

Old Rocks said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another welfare case looking for something for free. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong again loser. It's another hard working, over taxed, over regulated American who can't afford to fly all the way to Oregon. If the OP feels so strongly about it, then help a brother out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wah, wah.............  Really? If you are that hard working, why are you that poor? Perhaps there are other jobs than flipping burgers?
Click to expand...


Hey, fuck off retard! Does the OP want me there or not. Time to shit or get off the pot, asshole.


----------



## PredFan

LoneLaugher said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DaGoose said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you really believe in the 2nd Amendment as an absolute right and consider yourself a Patriot then here's your chance to show it. You're been called up and now it's time to put up or shut up. Do you have the balls or do you just run your mouth????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon Bundy posted a video on his Facebook page asking for militia members to come help him. He said "this is not a time to stand down. It's a time to stand up and come to Harney County," where Burns is located. Below the video is this statement: "(asterisk)(asterisk)ALL PATRIOTS ITS TIME TO STAND UP NOT STAND DOWN!!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!!! COME PREPARED."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Militia members occupy US building in Oregon after protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pay for my flight up there and I'm in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now THAT's a patriot who is behind the cause 100%!
Click to expand...


Doing what I can with what I have.


----------



## MaryL

I am a patriot. Guns are cool, but, I don't need have  a gun to be American. I'm 100% American, bonafide, with a birth certificate and all that. If we NEED to have a firearm in this country, what kind of country are we living in?


----------



## Skylar

peach174 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> who is trying to take their ranches? how so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> back to 'nobody' then.
> 
> here's a hint - just because a bundy says it doesn't make it true
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true.
> But I will take Bundy's word over the BLM thugs.
> I base that on my own experience with my Rancher friends here in southern AZ who have fought them and their thug tactics over the last 30 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are complaining about a purchase made in 1908 that they insist was 'unconstitutional'. Apparently because they say so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they aren't.
Click to expand...




> “This refuge, from its very inception has been a tool of tyranny,” said Bundy. He believes the federal government overstepped its constitutional bounds in its original purchase of the land back in 1908.
> 
> What's next for the armed militiamen in Oregon? | PBS NewsHour



With the land they're trying to 'restore' being the entirety of the 1908 purchase.


----------



## peach174

MaryL said:


> I am a patriot. Guns are cool, but, I don't need have  a gun to be American. I'm 100% American, bonafide, with a birth certificate and all that. If we NEED to have a firearm in this country, what kind of country are we living in?




It's not a matter of need.
It's about freedom and our 2nd amendment rights.


----------



## Skylar

Here's a fun little video. Its rambling and barely coherent. But its apparently from one of the seditious conspirators now in Oregon.


----------



## peach174

Skylar said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read the link
> 
> 
> 
> back to 'nobody' then.
> 
> here's a hint - just because a bundy says it doesn't make it true
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's true.
> But I will take Bundy's word over the BLM thugs.
> I base that on my own experience with my Rancher friends here in southern AZ who have fought them and their thug tactics over the last 30 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are complaining about a purchase made in 1908 that they insist was 'unconstitutional'. Apparently because they say so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “This refuge, from its very inception has been a tool of tyranny,” said Bundy. He believes the federal government overstepped its constitutional bounds in its original purchase of the land back in 1908.
> 
> What's next for the armed militiamen in Oregon? | PBS NewsHour
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With the land they're trying to 'restore' being the entirety of the 1908 purchase.
Click to expand...



You should look up the history on that in order to find out why he believes that.
They want the State of Oregon to control that land not BLM.


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> back to 'nobody' then.
> 
> here's a hint - just because a bundy says it doesn't make it true
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true.
> But I will take Bundy's word over the BLM thugs.
> I base that on my own experience with my Rancher friends here in southern AZ who have fought them and their thug tactics over the last 30 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are complaining about a purchase made in 1908 that they insist was 'unconstitutional'. Apparently because they say so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “This refuge, from its very inception has been a tool of tyranny,” said Bundy. He believes the federal government overstepped its constitutional bounds in its original purchase of the land back in 1908.
> 
> What's next for the armed militiamen in Oregon? | PBS NewsHour
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With the land they're trying to 'restore' being the entirety of the 1908 purchase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You should look up the history on that in order to find out why he believes that.
> They want the State of Oregon to control that land not BLM.
Click to expand...

people in hell want ice water. doesn't mean they're entitled to it or that they'll get it


----------



## Skylar

peach174 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> back to 'nobody' then.
> 
> here's a hint - just because a bundy says it doesn't make it true
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true.
> But I will take Bundy's word over the BLM thugs.
> I base that on my own experience with my Rancher friends here in southern AZ who have fought them and their thug tactics over the last 30 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are complaining about a purchase made in 1908 that they insist was 'unconstitutional'. Apparently because they say so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “This refuge, from its very inception has been a tool of tyranny,” said Bundy. He believes the federal government overstepped its constitutional bounds in its original purchase of the land back in 1908.
> 
> What's next for the armed militiamen in Oregon? | PBS NewsHour
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With the land they're trying to 'restore' being the entirety of the 1908 purchase.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You should look up the history on that in order to find out why he believes that.
> They want the State of Oregon to control that land not BLM.
Click to expand...


So now we've moved from him NOT believing that the 1908 purchase was unconstitutional  to WHY he believes that. That's progress, I suppose.

And if you have an argument to make on why he believes that, present it.


----------



## jon_berzerk

ClosedCaption said:


> easyt65 said:
> 
> 
> 
> FLASHBACK: HOW DID THIS START?
> 
> Liberal 'Criminal' Senator Harry Reid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not how they started breaking the law.  Your statement needs to show how they viola
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they committing "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> indeed they have
> 
> how about the Ferguson protesters
> 
> certainly terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Weapons or no weapons
> 
> Its all the same thing (when comparing to blacks)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you so nutz
> 
> that you believe that molotov cocktails  are not weapons
> 
> besides all the gun fire and such
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I bet you're saying Molotov cocktails because some black guy had the nerve to have a beverage...which using white boy fear of blacks means it COULDVE been a Molotov cocktail. Or a stabbing device...not a drink
Click to expand...


yah shut up you asshole 

you know damn well Ferguson was set ablaze


----------



## Manonthestreet

Skylar said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down' Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the law of averages finally came through. I agree with Ted Cruz on something.
Click to expand...


As a freshman at Columbia University in 1970, future Attorney General Eric Holder participated in a five-day occupation of an abandoned Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) headquarters with a group of black students later described by the university’s Black Students’ Organization as “armed,” The Daily Caller has learned. As college student, Eric Holder participated in ‘armed’ takeover of former Columbia University ROTC office


----------



## bullwinkle

Skylar said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
Click to expand...

Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.


----------



## Skylar

Manonthestreet said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down' Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the law of averages finally came through. I agree with Ted Cruz on something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As a freshman at Columbia University in 1970, future Attorney General Eric Holder participated in a five-day occupation of an abandoned Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) headquarters with a group of black students later described by the university’s Black Students’ Organization as “armed,” The Daily Caller has learned. As college student, Eric Holder participated in ‘armed’ takeover of former Columbia University ROTC office
Click to expand...


And where did they threaten to hurt anyone or use force to 'defend themselves'?


----------



## Manonthestreet

Skylar said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down' Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the law of averages finally came through. I agree with Ted Cruz on something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As a freshman at Columbia University in 1970, future Attorney General Eric Holder participated in a five-day occupation of an abandoned Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) headquarters with a group of black students later described by the university’s Black Students’ Organization as “armed,” The Daily Caller has learned. As college student, Eric Holder participated in ‘armed’ takeover of former Columbia University ROTC office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where did they threaten to hurt anyone or use force to 'defend themselves'?
Click to expand...

Its same situation.......govt building, armed occupation........


----------



## Skylar

Manonthestreet said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down' Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the law of averages finally came through. I agree with Ted Cruz on something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As a freshman at Columbia University in 1970, future Attorney General Eric Holder participated in a five-day occupation of an abandoned Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) headquarters with a group of black students later described by the university’s Black Students’ Organization as “armed,” The Daily Caller has learned. As college student, Eric Holder participated in ‘armed’ takeover of former Columbia University ROTC office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where did they threaten to hurt anyone or use force to 'defend themselves'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its same situation.......govt building, armed occupation........
Click to expand...


There were no threats to use force to 'defend themselves'. And the school merely called them armed. There's zero evidence that they actually were.

While there's no question that Ammon Bundy and his seditioous conspirators are armed. Or that they've threatened to use force to 'defend themselves.'.

So much for your claim of 'same situation'.


----------



## jon_berzerk

SwimExpert said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> so all those various fuck the police protests fit the bill as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are they committing "acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> indeed they have
> 
> how about the Ferguson protesters
> 
> certainly terrorism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they trying to intimidate or coerce a civilian population?
> Are they trying to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion?
> Are they trying to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Are they trying to intimidate or coerce a civilian population?*
> 
> yes
> 
> *Are they trying to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion?*
> 
> yes indeed that was what it was about
> 
> *Are they trying to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping?*
> 
> you just added that in
> 
> they burned part of the town down which is of course mass destruction
> 
> so according to you yes they are terrorists
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it seems to me like it's simple math.  Not sure why you needed assistance with it.
Click to expand...


so you agree by simple math the fergies are terrorists


----------



## koshergrl

ABikerSailor said:


> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?


The difference of course is that the militia aren't attacking anybody. And the Harney county group are protesting specific tyrannical actions...not just 'bad police arrests us when we loot!'


----------



## Manonthestreet

Skylar said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down' Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the law of averages finally came through. I agree with Ted Cruz on something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As a freshman at Columbia University in 1970, future Attorney General Eric Holder participated in a five-day occupation of an abandoned Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) headquarters with a group of black students later described by the university’s Black Students’ Organization as “armed,” The Daily Caller has learned. As college student, Eric Holder participated in ‘armed’ takeover of former Columbia University ROTC office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where did they threaten to hurt anyone or use force to 'defend themselves'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its same situation.......govt building, armed occupation........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were no threats to use force to 'defend themselves'. And the school merely called them armed. There's zero evidence that they actually were.
> 
> While there's no question that Ammon Bundy and his seditioous conspirators are armed. Or that they've threatened to use force to 'defend themselves.'.
> 
> So much for your claim of 'same situation'.
Click to expand...

Discarding honesty for politics eh.......


----------



## jon_berzerk

peach174 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ore. ranchers at center of protest expected to report to prison
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That report is inaccurate in several things.
> 1st they did the burn on their property with permission then it got out of hand and burned the Federal land.
> 2nd they retried them on another charge without a new trial or jury.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i am going t have to read about this
> 
> thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They won the 1st round. I hope they win this 2nd round.
> Here is the Bundy's account to start with, check out their side vs Governments side and the misreports on the news about it. Then conduct your own research on it.
> This is mainly about the Feds wanting to own more of the land.
> Like they don't have enough of as it is.
> Bundy Ranch
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
Click to expand...


thanks for the link


----------



## Manonthestreet

And for the record I called for their dispersal or arrest earlier today.......cant have "milita" showing up after every legal issue they disagree with


----------



## J.E.D

These unAmerican assholes are occupying federal property in a town that doesn't want them there. 

Kick them the fuck out of there, and if any of those ignorant fucks resists, or uses deadly force, meet them with equal, or more, force.


----------



## koshergrl

saveliberty said:


> Good to see the media is giving them all the attention they want...


The Oregonian has ignored the issue for decades. They have nothing but contempt for the people who live in the far reaches.


----------



## teddyearp

Tipsycatlover said:


> <snip> However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.



Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .

Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:

John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.

John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Skylar

Manonthestreet said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well the law of averages finally came through. I agree with Ted Cruz on something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a freshman at Columbia University in 1970, future Attorney General Eric Holder participated in a five-day occupation of an abandoned Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) headquarters with a group of black students later described by the university’s Black Students’ Organization as “armed,” The Daily Caller has learned. As college student, Eric Holder participated in ‘armed’ takeover of former Columbia University ROTC office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where did they threaten to hurt anyone or use force to 'defend themselves'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its same situation.......govt building, armed occupation........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were no threats to use force to 'defend themselves'. And the school merely called them armed. There's zero evidence that they actually were.
> 
> While there's no question that Ammon Bundy and his seditioous conspirators are armed. Or that they've threatened to use force to 'defend themselves.'.
> 
> So much for your claim of 'same situation'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Discarding honesty for politics eh.......
Click to expand...


Can you point out where I was dishonest? For example, what is the evidence that the students were armed? They never said they were. There are no pictures of any weapons. There was no call to kill or be killed, nor to use force to 'defend ourselves'. In fact, no threats of violence at all.

Where as the Bundy Brothers are calling for more milita to show up.....armed. With Ryan Bundy reportedly being prepared to 'kill or be killed'. With no question that the militia is armed. And Ammon himself insisting that they'll use force to 'defend themselves'.

So...where is the 'dishonesty' exactly? Do you even disagree?


----------



## Skylar

Manonthestreet said:


> And for the record I called for their dispersal or arrest earlier today.......cant have "milita" showing up after every legal issue they disagree with



Well, THEY are calling for more militia to show up. Armed. That they're going to make the federal building their new militia headquarters. And that they are going to start giving away federal lumber, ore and grazing rights.

And showing up with guns when a legal issue doesn't go there way is exactly what they're doing.


----------



## basquebromance




----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Politics, Election 2016January 3, 2016
* Oregon Standoff Is The Epitome Of White Privilege*


----------



## bodecea

Skylar said:


> Here's a fun little video. Its rambling and barely coherent. But its apparently from one of the seditious conspirators now in Oregon.


Sounds like he's got a chip on his shoulder over those who went to college.


----------



## Skylar

bodecea said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a fun little video. Its rambling and barely coherent. But its apparently from one of the seditious conspirators now in Oregon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like he's got a chip on his shoulder over those who went to college.
Click to expand...


"Do you want to die, in prison, labeled a terrorist by these oppressors? Or do you want to *die out  here with us*, a free man? I want to die a free man"

*'Die out here with us".* Yeah, no intent of violence with Y'all Qaeda. When he's talking about dying 'out here with us', I'm sure he's talking a nasty case of botulism from all the canned food. Maybe clogged arteries.


----------



## jillian

Manonthestreet said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yep... they are nothing but domestic terrorists.
> 
> if blacks or muslims or "protesters" did this the wackadoodles would be having nervous breakdowns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blm armed patrols were on the streets of mpls stopping cars in the area and demanding to know the occupants business in the area.
Click to expand...


i heard rumors to that effect. but i don't recall them being BLM protesters.

so like i said....


----------



## Skylar

I love what these headjobs consider a 'redress of grievances'. Apparently you only get a redress of grievances if due process produces a result you agree with. 

Where back in reality, redress of grievances is the ability to make a complaint to or seek assistance from one's government without being punished. 

Making 'Jon's claim about a "redress of grievances made....and ignored", a profound misunderstanding of what the term actually means.


----------



## basquebromance




----------



## basquebromance




----------



## basquebromance




----------



## basquebromance




----------



## teddyearp

Another humorous USMB thread, full of personal attacks and lacking much in actual debate and real information.

I am curious.  Where are the pictures of weapons being carried by those who have occupied that building?  Anyone?  Are we going to believe that these are 'armed militia' just because we have the Bundy (obviously not Ted Bundy) name attached?

This issue goes way deeper than we all know.  And there's many sides to this complicated story. A grand jury indictment is much easier than a preliminary hearing to bring charges.  With a prelim, you have a judge and both sides get to present their side.  Not so with a grand jury.  There's no judge, only the prosecutor and the jury; does that sound fair?  So regardless of the charges brought by the grand jury, that is in no way a conviction which requires much more to convict.  So even though the indictment called for poaching, the trial could not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

How does a grand jury work:

How Does a Grand Jury Work? - FindLaw

And with the myriad of other issues involved with this case, I will only address the one I know of, since I don't actually live there. I have researched that area for a long time and have read about how the Western Juniper is a problem there (something the Hammonds have over the years tried to eradicate):

Oregon Invasive Species: What to do with Western Juniper?

I am not saying that they used the best practices, but knowing what I know about the BLM, and NFS, I find that their frustration could be justified, and the accusations of the BLM to be possibly overstated.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Moron Levee


----------



## BULLDOG

basquebromance said:


>




Shouldn't you be wearing big shoes and a funny red nose every time you quote Allen West?


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Moron Levee


Why don't you take your racist crap the heck out of this thread since you have nothing of real worth to contribute.

Please?


----------



## Old Rocks

Missourian said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read the article about the fires and the sentencing...apparently,  environmentalists want the Hammond land,  and the government is doing all they can to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> if you did  you'd have known the fires were set on "leased" BLM land hack boi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One of the fires, set in 2001, was a prescribed burn on Hammond’s private property; a routine range improvement practice. The other fire, set on Hammond’s private property in 2006, was a back-burn intended to protect the ranch’s winter pasture from a lightening fire on adjacent federal land.
> 
> Ranchers face added jail time for BLM fire | TSLN.com​
> Now please STFU and let the honest adults talks,  Ms Stolen Valor.
> ​
Click to expand...

You are rapidly putting yourself outside of that definition, Missouri. Harney County is not Missouri. It is all rural. The town of Burns is the only town in it, and has all of 7000 people, on a good day. The next town is Drewsey, which has maybe 30 people. It is 10,228 sq. mi. in size. Almost everybody knows everybody else. A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence. That is very dry country, and has had some extreme fires in the past decade, some of which have cost some ranchers as much as 1/3 of their herd. Setting those fires were acts of criminal negligence. The Hammond's were justly convicted, and served their time. 

There should not be additional time added. And that is what the peaceful protest in Burns was all about. 

The actions of the militia are illegal, and should be prosecuted.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Roudy

"Assholes making trouble in Oregon" sounds like the title of the latest porn flick.


----------



## JimH52

peach174 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a patriot. Guns are cool, but, I don't need have  a gun to be American. I'm 100% American, bonafide, with a birth certificate and all that. If we NEED to have a firearm in this country, what kind of country are we living in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of need.
> It's about freedom and our 2nd amendment rights.
Click to expand...


Naw, it's about being bullies and domestic terrorist.  THEY ARE NOT WANTED HERE!


----------



## CremeBrulee

Skylar said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a fun little video. Its rambling and barely coherent. But its apparently from one of the seditious conspirators now in Oregon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like he's got a chip on his shoulder over those who went to college.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Do you want to die, in prison, labeled a terrorist by these oppressors? Or do you want to *die out  here with us*, a free man? I want to die a free man"
> 
> *'Die out here with us".* Yeah, no intent of violence with Y'all Qaeda. When he's talking about dying 'out here with us', I'm sure he's talking a nasty case of botulism from all the canned food. Maybe clogged arteries.
Click to expand...

Yal Qaeda 

I like Vanilla Isis and Al Shabubba too.


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Vigilante




----------



## JimH52

Skylar said:


> Here's a fun little video. Its rambling and barely coherent. But its apparently from one of the seditious conspirators now in Oregon.



Is he going to fight ISIS? 

Looks like a skinhead to me.


----------



## teddyearp

And why did these folks get charged with 'terrorism"?


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Roudy

It doesn't have to be in Oregon. Spicy food can cause anybody's asshole to make trouble. 

Allah Akbar!


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Send Pork rinds ASAP

*This Anti-Government Oregon Terrorist Took Thousands In Government Money*



One of the ringleaders of the terror-minded militia group who are illegally occupying a National Park service building got a six figure loan from the government...

January 4, 2016, 8:46 pm
*Anti-Government Terrorists Forgot Snacks, Want You To Send Via U.S. Mail*



On Thursday Blaine Cooper, one of the anti-government terrorists who is participating in the armed takeover of a bird sanctuary in Oregon, put out a call...


----------



## rcfieldz

Could this be the next Waco?  

Could Oregon Be the Next Waco?


----------



## Roudy

teddyearp said:


> And why did these folks get charged with 'terrorism"?


Because they aren't promoting a cause the left is for, otherwise they'd be called "activists" and "protesters".    

Did you notice how the activists have already burned down three US cities?


----------



## teddyearp

And I would like to ask everyone else who has posted here.  What is your impression of how the BLM manages our land?


----------



## AvgGuyIA

God bless the Bundy and Hammond families.  Down with the Obama pimp.


----------



## Skylar

teddyearp said:


> Another humorous USMB thread, full of personal attacks and lacking much in actual debate and real information.
> 
> I am curious.  Where are the pictures of weapons being carried by those who have occupied that building?



Right here:






Here's the video of the same:


Those aren't back scratchers. Those are rifles.  With the guy in the fatigues wearing a side arm. He actually says 'bring your arms' at around 1:28 in the video.

Now, does it matter to you?



> Anyone?  Are we going to believe that these are 'armed militia' just because we have the Bundy (obviously not Ted Bundy) name attached?



Done and done. And of course, he's called for more armed militia to join them. With these militia men calling for fellow militia to 'bring your guns...its that simple".



> I am not saying that they used the best practices, but knowing what I know about the BLM, and NFS, I find that their frustration could be justified, and the accusations of the BLM to be possibly overstated.



Frustration, absolutely. Protests, absolutely. I would even be open to a sit in. But calls to use force to 'defend themselves' with militia men offering us batshit hysterics like this:



> "Do you want to die, in prison, labeled a terrorist by these oppressors? Or do you want to *die out here with us*, a free man? I want to die a free man"



That's not a protest. That's a seditious conspiracy. Textbook.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

I think its the methamphetamine fueling the crazy Right wing Nuts................


----------



## teddyearp

Roudy said:


> Because they aren't promoting a cause the left is for, otherwise they'd be called "activists" and "protesters".
> 
> Did you notice how the activists have already burned down three US cities?



Off topic, but quoted for truth!


----------



## Old Rocks

basquebromance said:


> DONALD J TRUMP WOULD REVERSE BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA'S ACTIONS IN THE FIRST HOUR OF HIS PRESIDENCY!


This thread is not about Trump or President Obama, you silly ass.


----------



## AvgGuyIA

teddyearp said:


> And I would like to ask everyone else who has posted here.  What is your impression of how the BLM manages our land?


Get the Feds out of land ownership, return the land to open range for everyone's use.


----------



## Old Rocks

basquebromance said:


>


LOL. What a silly ass you are. You think that is impressive? Stupid asses doing stupid ass things. What a bunch of idiotic fruitloops.


----------



## Vigilante

Skylar said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another humorous USMB thread, full of personal attacks and lacking much in actual debate and real information.
> 
> I am curious.  Where are the pictures of weapons being carried by those who have occupied that building?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the video of the same:
> 
> 
> Those aren't back scratchers. Those are rifles.  With the guy in the fatigues wearing a side arm. He actually says 'bring your arms' at around 1:28 in the video.
> 
> Now, does it matter to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone?  Are we going to believe that these are 'armed militia' just because we have the Bundy (obviously not Ted Bundy) name attached?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Done and done. And of course, he's called for more armed militia to join them. With these militia men calling for fellow militia to 'bring your guns...its that simple".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not saying that they used the best practices, but knowing what I know about the BLM, and NFS, I find that their frustration could be justified, and the accusations of the BLM to be possibly overstated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Frustration, absolutely. Protests, absolutely. I would even be open to a sit in. But calls to use force to 'defend themselves' with militia men offering us batshit hysterics like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Do you want to die, in prison, labeled a terrorist by these oppressors? Or do you want to *die out here with us*, a free man? I want to die a free man"
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's not a protest. That's a seditious conspiracy. Textbook.
Click to expand...










There is NO DOUBT that THIS is government tyranny!


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Rectum like Right wing Nuts occupying Federal Buildings and threatening to kill.............


----------



## JimH52

AvgGuyIA said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I would like to ask everyone else who has posted here.  What is your impression of how the BLM manages our land?
> 
> 
> 
> Get the Feds out of land ownership, return the land to open range for everyone's use.
Click to expand...


And who will manage it, Minnie Mouse.  Stupid Comment....


----------



## Vigilante

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Rectum like Right wing Nuts occupying Federal Buildings and threatening to kill.............



Pussypussy has had NeedleDickTheBugFucker screw him in his ass today... He's full of piss and vinegar!


----------



## CremeBrulee

AvgGuyIA said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I would like to ask everyone else who has posted here.  What is your impression of how the BLM manages our land?
> 
> 
> 
> Get the Feds out of land ownership, return the land to open range for everyone's use.
Click to expand...

The National Mall will look fantastic with my cattle shitting all over it.


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> I think its the methamphetamine fueling the crazy Right wing Nuts................


----------



## Skylar

AvgGuyIA said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I would like to ask everyone else who has posted here.  What is your impression of how the BLM manages our land?
> 
> 
> 
> Get the Feds out of land ownership, return the land to open range for everyone's use.
Click to expand...


Vote for folks to enact that policy. But if you want to know what the founders thought of armed insurrection....ask Shays how far up his ass Washington planted his boot.

Remember, Ammon isn't 'the people'. And despite his claims, he doesn't speak for God.


----------



## Skylar

teddyearp said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think its the methamphetamine fueling the crazy Right wing Nuts................
Click to expand...


So with *pictures and video* of Bundy's crew being armed, calling for others to 'bring your arms' and calls by militia men for Dwight Hammond to 'die here with us'.....

....does it matter to you in the slightest? Or did you ask for evidence you were intent on ignoring from the start?


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a patriot. Guns are cool, but, I don't need have  a gun to be American. I'm 100% American, bonafide, with a birth certificate and all that. If we NEED to have a firearm in this country, what kind of country are we living in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of need.
> It's about freedom and our 2nd amendment rights.
Click to expand...

Interestingly enough, when we have people like the militia running around, there is a need for some of us to own and know how to use a weapon. These thugs would have tried to run right over the people of Burns, had not those people, almost to the person been gun owners, because of the amount of subsistance hunting in that area. They were told their scuzzy asses were not welcome, and they are really unwelcome now.

Home-Welcome to Harney County, Oregon

*Harney County-The Official Site*


*The Harney County Court House will be CLOSED for security reasons
Monday January 4, 2016.*


*THE HARNEY COUNTY COURTHOUSE AND ALL COUNTY OFFICES WILL BE OPEN REGULAR HOURS ON TUESDAY, JANUARY 5, 2016*




*PRESS RELEASE*


*The Harney County Court is very concerned with the ongoing situation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The Refuge is under federal jurisdiction. The County Court will stay engaged within the limits of our legal authority. Our main concern is for the safety and well-being of the citizens of this county. No one knows what the next actions will be of the outside groups who have seized control at the Refuge. In our nation we have three branches of government so that each serves as a check and balance to the others. If these militia groups believe the administrative branch is overreaching they have every right to utilize the judicial branch and or legislative branch to address their concerns. We encourage them to take this route.*

*The Hammond family is well respected in Harney County, motivation of the militia groups that have descended on Harney County goes far beyond the troubles of the Hammond family as demonstrated by their actions at the Refuge.*

*The County will be releasing regular updates making them available to media and the general public through the Harney County websitewww.co.harney.or.us *

*An email has been set up for access to the Harney County Court and its members regarding the current situation county.court@co.harney.or.us*

*Instructions for Courthouse Employees for workplace entry. *

*The Harney County Courthouse and all County Offices will be open for business from 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., Tuesday, January 5th through Friday, January 8th, 2016. All employees must enter through the front door of the Courthouse. You will need to present your County ID and expect increased security measures. You must park in front of the Courthouse or on the south side of the Courthouse. You will not be able to park on the north side, nor next to the Sheriff’s Office/Jail.*

*The public entering the Courthouse for business should expect increased security measures as well.*


----------



## Missourian

Old Rocks said:


> You are rapidly putting yourself outside of that definition, Missouri. Harney County is not Missouri. It is all rural. The town of Burns is the only town in it, and has all of 7000 people, on a good day. The next town is Drewsey, which has maybe 30 people. It is 10,228 sq. mi. in size. Almost everybody knows everybody else. A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence. That is very dry country, and has had some extreme fires in the past decade, some of which have cost some ranchers as much as 1/3 of their herd. Setting those fires were acts of criminal negligence. The Hammond's were justly convicted, and served their time.
> 
> There should not be additional time added. And that is what the peaceful protest in Burns was all about.



We are totally on the same page to this point.  But they did have time added...and nobody would have ever heard a peep about it outside of Harney County if it weren't for the militia...now it's a national headline in every major news outlet.




Old Rocks said:


> The actions of the militia are illegal, and should be prosecuted.



Civil disobedience is illegal.  It is also a potent tool for bringing about political change.  They should receive the same punishment Occupy Wall Streeters received for their civil disobedience.

This is where you say "But they are armed!" and I say "So what?"


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read the article about the fires and the sentencing...apparently,  environmentalists want the Hammond land,  and the government is doing all they can to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> if you did  you'd have known the fires were set on "leased" BLM land hack boi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One of the fires, set in 2001, was a prescribed burn on Hammond’s private property; a routine range improvement practice. The other fire, set on Hammond’s private property in 2006, was a back-burn intended to protect the ranch’s winter pasture from a lightening fire on adjacent federal land.
> 
> Ranchers face added jail time for BLM fire | TSLN.com​
> Now please STFU and let the honest adults talks,  Ms Stolen Valor.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are rapidly putting yourself outside of that definition, Missouri. Harney County is not Missouri. It is all rural. The town of Burns is the only town in it, and has all of 7000 people, on a good day. The next town is Drewsey, which has maybe 30 people. It is 10,228 sq. mi. in size. Almost everybody knows everybody else. A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence. That is very dry country, and has had some extreme fires in the past decade, some of which have cost some ranchers as much as 1/3 of their herd. Setting those fires were acts of criminal negligence. The Hammond's were justly convicted, and served their time.
> 
> There should not be additional time added. And that is what the peaceful protest in Burns was all about.
> 
> The actions of the militia are illegal, and should be prosecuted.
Click to expand...

Trespassing on public land, meh.


----------



## Old Rocks

teddyearp said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.


----------



## WillowTree

These men were tried, convicted, jailed and served their terms. Correct?


----------



## Vigilante

OVER 60% of Oregon is FEDERAL LAND! WHY does the government OWN THIS LAND?


----------



## Vigilante

Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to ...
The Last Refuge‎ - 2 days ago
(a) In 1964 the _Hammonds_' purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase ...


----------



## bodecea

Old Rocks said:


> basquebromance said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. What a silly ass you are. You think that is impressive? Stupid asses doing stupid ass things. What a bunch of idiotic fruitloops.
Click to expand...

He must be one of those toughie keyboard kommandos we hear so much about...*swoon


----------



## Skylar

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaryL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a patriot. Guns are cool, but, I don't need have  a gun to be American. I'm 100% American, bonafide, with a birth certificate and all that. If we NEED to have a firearm in this country, what kind of country are we living in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of need.
> It's about freedom and our 2nd amendment rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Interestingly enough, when we have people like the militia running around, there is a need for some of us to own and know how to use a weapon. These thugs would have tried to run right over the people of Burns, had not those people, almost to the person been gun owners, because of the amount of subsistance hunting in that area. They were told their scuzzy asses were not welcome, and they are really unwelcome now.
> 
> Home-Welcome to Harney County, Oregon
> 
> *Harney County-The Official Site*
> 
> 
> *The Harney County Court House will be CLOSED for security reasons*
> *Monday January 4, 2016.*
> 
> 
> *THE HARNEY COUNTY COURTHOUSE AND ALL COUNTY OFFICES WILL BE OPEN REGULAR HOURS ON TUESDAY, JANUARY 5, 2016*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PRESS RELEASE*
> 
> 
> *The Harney County Court is very concerned with the ongoing situation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The Refuge is under federal jurisdiction. The County Court will stay engaged within the limits of our legal authority. Our main concern is for the safety and well-being of the citizens of this county. No one knows what the next actions will be of the outside groups who have seized control at the Refuge. In our nation we have three branches of government so that each serves as a check and balance to the others. If these militia groups believe the administrative branch is overreaching they have every right to utilize the judicial branch and or legislative branch to address their concerns. We encourage them to take this route.*
> 
> *The Hammond family is well respected in Harney County, motivation of the militia groups that have descended on Harney County goes far beyond the troubles of the Hammond family as demonstrated by their actions at the Refuge.*
> 
> *The County will be releasing regular updates making them available to media and the general public through the Harney County websitewww.co.harney.or.us *
> 
> *An email has been set up for access to the Harney County Court and its members regarding the current situation county.court@co.harney.or.us*
> 
> *Instructions for Courthouse Employees for workplace entry. *
> 
> *The Harney County Courthouse and all County Offices will be open for business from 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., Tuesday, January 5th through Friday, January 8th, 2016. All employees must enter through the front door of the Courthouse. You will need to present your County ID and expect increased security measures. You must park in front of the Courthouse or on the south side of the Courthouse. You will not be able to park on the north side, nor next to the Sheriff’s Office/Jail.*
> 
> *The public entering the Courthouse for business should expect increased security measures as well.*
Click to expand...


The militia members did rather elegantly demonstrate that they're just using Hammond for their own horseshit by seizing the federal building. That has nothing to do with Hammond. Which might explain why Hammond has repeatedly insisted that he has nothing to do with the militia nor do they represent him.


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> OVER 60% of Oregon is FEDERAL LAND! WHY does the government OWN THIS LAND?


Because they've had it since we got Oregon from the UK.


----------



## Skylar

WillowTree said:


> These men were tried, convicted, jailed and served their terms. Correct?



No. They were tried, convicted, jailed, and served a reduced sentence that an appeals court overturned. With the legally required sentence imposed instead.


----------



## CremeBrulee

Skylar said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> These men were tried, convicted, jailed and served their terms. Correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. They were tried, convicted, jailed, and served a reduced sentence that an appeals court overturned. With the legally required sentence imposed instead.
Click to expand...

With credit for time served.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I read the article about the fires and the sentencing...apparently,  environmentalists want the Hammond land,  and the government is doing all they can to get it.
> 
> 
> 
> if you did  you'd have known the fires were set on "leased" BLM land hack boi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> One of the fires, set in 2001, was a prescribed burn on Hammond’s private property; a routine range improvement practice. The other fire, set on Hammond’s private property in 2006, was a back-burn intended to protect the ranch’s winter pasture from a lightening fire on adjacent federal land.
> 
> Ranchers face added jail time for BLM fire | TSLN.com​
> Now please STFU and let the honest adults talks,  Ms Stolen Valor.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are rapidly putting yourself outside of that definition, Missouri. Harney County is not Missouri. It is all rural. The town of Burns is the only town in it, and has all of 7000 people, on a good day. The next town is Drewsey, which has maybe 30 people. It is 10,228 sq. mi. in size. Almost everybody knows everybody else. A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence. That is very dry country, and has had some extreme fires in the past decade, some of which have cost some ranchers as much as 1/3 of their herd. Setting those fires were acts of criminal negligence. The Hammond's were justly convicted, and served their time.
> 
> There should not be additional time added. And that is what the peaceful protest in Burns was all about.
> 
> The actions of the militia are illegal, and should be prosecuted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Trespassing on public land, meh.
Click to expand...


Nope. That's text book seditious conspiracy. And carries a 20 year sentence.


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to ...
> The Last Refuge‎ - 2 days ago
> (a) In 1964 the _Hammonds_' purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase ...


Breitbart......


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> OVER 60% of Oregon is FEDERAL LAND! WHY does the government OWN THIS LAND?
> 
> 
> 
> Because they've had it since we got Oregon from the UK.
Click to expand...


Then SELL IT and PAY OFF PART OF OUR DEMORAT CAUSED DEBT!


----------



## koshergrl

Vigilante said:


> OVER 60% of Oregon is FEDERAL LAND! WHY does the government OWN THIS LAND?


Because they stole it. With the assistance of statist limp wristed city dwellers under the pretense of wildlife protection...so that city dwelling losers can enjoy the parts of the country they can't afford to own and don't know how to manage.


----------



## Skylar

CremeBrulee said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> These men were tried, convicted, jailed and served their terms. Correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. They were tried, convicted, jailed, and served a reduced sentence that an appeals court overturned. With the legally required sentence imposed instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With credit for time served.
Click to expand...


With credit for time served.


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to ...
> The Last Refuge‎ - 2 days ago
> (a) In 1964 the _Hammonds_' purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase ...
> 
> 
> 
> Breitbart......
Click to expand...


Yes The TRUTH you don't want to hear, unless it's the DemoRAT Underground... Bull Dyke!


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> OVER 60% of Oregon is FEDERAL LAND! WHY does the government OWN THIS LAND?
> 
> 
> 
> Because they stole it. With the assistance of statist limp wristed city dwellers under the pretense of wildlife protection...so that city dwelling losers can enjoy the parts of the country they can't afford to own and don't know how to manage.
Click to expand...


They stole it according to who? If any armed group of thugs can decide that they get to make the law.....you better hope no thugs like your house.


----------



## Old Rocks

Missourian said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are rapidly putting yourself outside of that definition, Missouri. Harney County is not Missouri. It is all rural. The town of Burns is the only town in it, and has all of 7000 people, on a good day. The next town is Drewsey, which has maybe 30 people. It is 10,228 sq. mi. in size. Almost everybody knows everybody else. A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence. That is very dry country, and has had some extreme fires in the past decade, some of which have cost some ranchers as much as 1/3 of their herd. Setting those fires were acts of criminal negligence. The Hammond's were justly convicted, and served their time.
> 
> There should not be additional time added. And that is what the peaceful protest in Burns was all about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are totally on the same page to this point.  But they did have time added...and nobody would have ever heard a peep about it outside of Harney County if it weren't for the militia...now it's a national headline in every major news outlet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The actions of the militia are illegal, and should be prosecuted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Civil disobedience is illegal.  It is also a potent tool for bringing about political change.  They should receive the same punishment Occupy Wall Streeters received for their civil disobedience.
> 
> This is where you say "But they are armed!" and I say "So what?"
Click to expand...

I have been following this story for a while. I never expected an armed militia to show up and make it a sideshow. 

The differance if the they are armed? If some armed asshole protesting something sticks a gun in my face, I may just blow the dumb fucks head off. These assholes threatened the local sheriff with death, and tried to push around an old couple, 74 and 78, at the American Legion. They could get nobody from Burns to take part in their illegal and seditious activities.


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rectum like Right wing Nuts occupying Federal Buildings and threatening to kill.............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pussypussy has had NeedleDickTheBugFucker screw him in his ass today... He's full of piss and vinegar!
Click to expand...

Ah...time for today's #ViggiesSexualFantasy


----------



## rcfieldz

Can you smell what's cookin'?


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> OVER 60% of Oregon is FEDERAL LAND! WHY does the government OWN THIS LAND?
> 
> 
> 
> Because they've had it since we got Oregon from the UK.
Click to expand...

That is a fucking lie.


----------



## Vigilante

Skylar said:


> CremeBrulee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> These men were tried, convicted, jailed and served their terms. Correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. They were tried, convicted, jailed, and served a reduced sentence that an appeals court overturned. With the legally required sentence imposed instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
Click to expand...


OTHERS who did the same thing, were simply FINED for the act, the original judge understood that this was not TERRORISM but a simple accident, as the Hammonds had permission from the gov't to burn the land, and it simply got out of control and burned approx. 20 acres of Fed. land, with NO INJURIES or PROPERTY DAMAGE to anything!


----------



## Vigilante

rcfieldz said:


> Can you smell what's cookin'?
> 
> View attachment 58834



Looks like WACO BURNING under Clinton's regime!...Being the Property of that picture STATES it's WACO! Fucking left wing idiot doesn't know that anyone with a bit of common sense can find that out!


----------



## Skylar

rcfieldz said:


> Can you smell what's cookin'?
> 
> View attachment 58834



Lets hope not. These men are self righteous, self deluded idiots. But I really don't want to see anyone get hurt.


----------



## Skylar

teddyearp said:


> And why did these folks get charged with 'terrorism"?



They didn't. They were charged with arson.


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rectum like Right wing Nuts occupying Federal Buildings and threatening to kill.............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pussypussy has had NeedleDickTheBugFucker screw him in his ass today... He's full of piss and vinegar!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah...time for today's #ViggiesSexualFantasy
Click to expand...


Truth hurts, doesn't it, Bull Dyke!


----------



## Old Rocks

You are a Bull Dyke, Vaginal? Who'd thunk it.................................


----------



## Vigilante

Old Rocks said:


> You are a Bull Dyke, Vaginal? Who'd thunk it.................................



I see you still have cum in your ears...go take a shower!


----------



## bodecea

Old Rocks said:


> You are a Bull Dyke, Vaginal? Who'd thunk it.................................


Please don't insult Lesbians.   We find him rather "out there".


----------



## Dot Com

WillowTree said:


> These men were tried, convicted, jailed and served their terms. Correct?


the judge didn't follow the proper sentencing guidelines.


----------



## Missourian

Old Rocks said:


> I have been following this story for a while. I never expected an armed militia to show up and make it a sideshow.
> 
> The differance if the they are armed? If some armed asshole protesting something sticks a gun in my face, I may just blow the dumb fucks head off. These assholes threatened the local sheriff with death, and tried to push around an old couple, 74 and 78, at the American Legion. They could get nobody from Burns to take part in their illegal and seditious activities.



Have a link to that,  Rocks?

Because this is as close as I can get...

The militia members have been insisting that Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward create a sanctuary so the Hammonds will be immune from surrendering. Ward met with the militiamen and rejected that demand. *The militia has since labeled him an "enemy of the people."* Ward said he has received emailed death threats among thousands of messages from across the country regarding the Hammonds.

Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns​
That is well within their first amendment rights.  Ward claims he has received death threats from anonymous emailings.  Hell,  rdean and Dot Com could have sent those...anyone could have.

If some armed asshole sticks a gun in anyone's face they should face prosecution...has that happened?  

Let's try to limit our discussion to what has happened and not to what might happen.


----------



## rcfieldz

Old Rocks said:


> You are a Bull Dyke, Vaginal? Who'd thunk it.................................


I can hear that with a valley girl accent.


----------



## Vigilante

Dot Com said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> These men were tried, convicted, jailed and served their terms. Correct?
> 
> 
> 
> the judge didn't follow the proper sentencing guidelines.
Click to expand...

Obuma doesn't follow the Constitutuion, He's set the precedent!


----------



## skookerasbil

meh

The open border progressives are far, far more dangerous to America than these protestors.


----------



## koshergrl

Articles: Distrust of federal land agencies escalates with conviction of Oregon ranchers. The fires were beneficial to wildlife, and the prosecutors lied. The Hammonds pled for a lighter sentence in return for their promise not to contest...which they did not. It's time for war. Our judicial and executive branches are thoroughly corrupted.


----------



## Manonthestreet

jillian said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yep... they are nothing but domestic terrorists.
> 
> if blacks or muslims or "protesters" did this the wackadoodles would be having nervous breakdowns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blm armed patrols were on the streets of mpls stopping cars in the area and demanding to know the occupants business in the area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i heard rumors to that effect. but i don't recall them being BLM protesters.
> 
> so like i said....
Click to expand...


Well they were so like nothing


----------



## Manonthestreet

Skylar said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a freshman at Columbia University in 1970, future Attorney General Eric Holder participated in a five-day occupation of an abandoned Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) headquarters with a group of black students later described by the university’s Black Students’ Organization as “armed,” The Daily Caller has learned. As college student, Eric Holder participated in ‘armed’ takeover of former Columbia University ROTC office
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And where did they threaten to hurt anyone or use force to 'defend themselves'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its same situation.......govt building, armed occupation........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were no threats to use force to 'defend themselves'. And the school merely called them armed. There's zero evidence that they actually were.
> 
> While there's no question that Ammon Bundy and his seditioous conspirators are armed. Or that they've threatened to use force to 'defend themselves.'.
> 
> So much for your claim of 'same situation'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Discarding honesty for politics eh.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you point out where I was dishonest? For example, what is the evidence that the students were armed? They never said they were. There are no pictures of any weapons. There was no call to kill or be killed, nor to use force to 'defend ourselves'. In fact, no threats of violence at all.
> 
> Where as the Bundy Brothers are calling for more milita to show up.....armed. With Ryan Bundy reportedly being prepared to 'kill or be killed'. With no question that the militia is armed. And Ammon himself insisting that they'll use force to 'defend themselves'.
> 
> So...where is the 'dishonesty' exactly? Do you even disagree?
Click to expand...


More dishonesty.....really.......is there an honest lib here at all


----------



## ChrisL

TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!


----------



## AvgGuyIA

Vigilante said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CremeBrulee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> These men were tried, convicted, jailed and served their terms. Correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. They were tried, convicted, jailed, and served a reduced sentence that an appeals court overturned. With the legally required sentence imposed instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OTHERS who did the same thing, were simply FINED for the act, the original judge understood that this was not TERRORISM but a simple accident, as the Hammonds had permission from the gov't to burn the land, and it simply got out of control and burned approx. 20 acres of Fed. land, with NO INJURIES or PROPERTY DAMAGE to anything!
Click to expand...

Burning the grass will make it come back stronger and greener than ever.


----------



## AvgGuyIA

ChrisL said:


> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!


.  Fuck Obama.


----------



## Old Rocks

AvgGuyIA said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CremeBrulee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> These men were tried, convicted, jailed and served their terms. Correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. They were tried, convicted, jailed, and served a reduced sentence that an appeals court overturned. With the legally required sentence imposed instead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OTHERS who did the same thing, were simply FINED for the act, the original judge understood that this was not TERRORISM but a simple accident, as the Hammonds had permission from the gov't to burn the land, and it simply got out of control and burned approx. 20 acres of Fed. land, with NO INJURIES or PROPERTY DAMAGE to anything!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Burning the grass will make it come back stronger and greener than ever.
Click to expand...

Burning firefighters makes them very dead. And that well could have happened with the fire the Hammond's set. Mister, you are an idiot.


----------



## ChrisL

Power to the people!


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> AvgGuyIA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CremeBrulee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. They were tried, convicted, jailed, and served a reduced sentence that an appeals court overturned. With the legally required sentence imposed instead.
> 
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OTHERS who did the same thing, were simply FINED for the act, the original judge understood that this was not TERRORISM but a simple accident, as the Hammonds had permission from the gov't to burn the land, and it simply got out of control and burned approx. 20 acres of Fed. land, with NO INJURIES or PROPERTY DAMAGE to anything!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Burning the grass will make it come back stronger and greener than ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Burning firefighters makes them very dead. And that well could have happened with the fire the Hammond's set. Mister, you are an idiot.
Click to expand...

There was absolutely no chance of that happening, as the jury and judge determined early on.


----------



## Roudy

Can we just talk about tits and ass and get this over with?


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!




I hope you're kidding.


----------



## ChrisL

Carla_Danger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
Click to expand...


No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!


----------



## CremeBrulee

ChrisL said:


> Power to the people!


Have you heard the Bundy's cover?  By The Time I Get To Oregon


----------



## AmericanFirst1

Old Rocks said:


> AvgGuyIA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CremeBrulee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. They were tried, convicted, jailed, and served a reduced sentence that an appeals court overturned. With the legally required sentence imposed instead.
> 
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OTHERS who did the same thing, were simply FINED for the act, the original judge understood that this was not TERRORISM but a simple accident, as the Hammonds had permission from the gov't to burn the land, and it simply got out of control and burned approx. 20 acres of Fed. land, with NO INJURIES or PROPERTY DAMAGE to anything!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Burning the grass will make it come back stronger and greener than ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Burning firefighters makes them very dead. And that well could have happened with the fire the Hammond's set. Mister, you are an idiot.
Click to expand...

No, you are the idiot.


----------



## AmericanFirst1

Roudy said:


> Can we just talk about tits and ass and get this over with?


Obama  has tits and he is an ass.


----------



## ChrisL

CremeBrulee said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Power to the people!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you heard the Bundy's cover?  By The Time I Get To Oregon
Click to expand...


I despise the federal government, that overgrown bloated beast of a bastard.


----------



## koshergrl

I think Chris is in her cups again.


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
Click to expand...




I guess that big bad bully government wasn't so bad when it loaned $530,000 to Ammon Bundy for a small business loan.


----------



## ChrisL

koshergrl said:


> I think Chris is in her cups again.



My cups?  What are you talking about?


----------



## ChrisL

Carla_Danger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that big bad bully government wasn't so bad when it loaned $530,000 to Ammon Bundy for a small business loan.
Click to expand...


Yes, they are still bad and never to be trusted under ANY circumstances.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Check out this doofus.


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that big bad bully government wasn't so bad when it loaned $530,000 to Ammon Bundy for a small business loan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, they are still bad and never to be trusted under ANY circumstances.
Click to expand...



Right. Until you need a business loan.  lol


----------



## ChrisL

Carla_Danger said:


> Check out this doofus.



I think he has some kind of birth defect or something.


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> Articles: Distrust of federal land agencies escalates with conviction of Oregon ranchers. The fires were beneficial to wildlife, and the prosecutors lied. The Hammonds pled for a lighter sentence in return for their promise not to contest...which they did not. It's time for war. Our judicial and executive branches are thoroughly corrupted.


AmericanThinker? SERIOUSLY? The same AmericanThinker that was hawked on oxyRush's am radio  show?


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check out this doofus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he has some kind of birth defect or something.
Click to expand...




It's called RW-loon-hillbilly disease.


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AvgGuyIA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CremeBrulee said:
> 
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OTHERS who did the same thing, were simply FINED for the act, the original judge understood that this was not TERRORISM but a simple accident, as the Hammonds had permission from the gov't to burn the land, and it simply got out of control and burned approx. 20 acres of Fed. land, with NO INJURIES or PROPERTY DAMAGE to anything!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Burning the grass will make it come back stronger and greener than ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Burning firefighters makes them very dead. And that well could have happened with the fire the Hammond's set. Mister, you are an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was absolutely no chance of that happening, as the jury and judge determined early on.
Click to expand...

link Mkay? Thanks.


----------



## ChrisL

Carla_Danger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check out this doofus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he has some kind of birth defect or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called RW-loon-hillbilly disease.
Click to expand...


No seriously, this guy either had a stroke, an accident or has a birth defect.  His face is majorly fucked up.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Articles: Distrust of federal land agencies escalates with conviction of Oregon ranchers. The fires were beneficial to wildlife, and the prosecutors lied. The Hammonds pled for a lighter sentence in return for their promise not to contest...which they did not. It's time for war. Our judicial and executive branches are thoroughly corrupted.




If black dudes started that fire, how many here believe that koshkosh would be saying those fires were beneficial?  LOL!

Silly RWer's!


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check out this doofus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he has some kind of birth defect or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called RW-loon-hillbilly disease.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No seriously, this guy either had a stroke, an accident or has a birth defect.  His face is majorly fucked up.
Click to expand...



He's still an idiot.


----------



## ChrisL

Carla_Danger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check out this doofus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he has some kind of birth defect or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called RW-loon-hillbilly disease.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No seriously, this guy either had a stroke, an accident or has a birth defect.  His face is majorly fucked up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He's still an idiot.
Click to expand...


Such hatred Carla.  Why?  You want citizens to bow to the feds?


----------



## Camp

ChrisL said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check out this doofus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he has some kind of birth defect or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called RW-loon-hillbilly disease.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No seriously, this guy either had a stroke, an accident or has a birth defect.  His face is majorly fucked up.
Click to expand...

Kicked in the face by a cow.


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check out this doofus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think he has some kind of birth defect or something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called RW-loon-hillbilly disease.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No seriously, this guy either had a stroke, an accident or has a birth defect.  His face is majorly fucked up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He's still an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such hatred Carla.  Why?  You want citizens to bow to the feds?
Click to expand...



Bow?  What is it exactly that you think they're doing there? The Hammond's don't want them there.


----------



## ChrisL

Carla_Danger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think he has some kind of birth defect or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called RW-loon-hillbilly disease.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No seriously, this guy either had a stroke, an accident or has a birth defect.  His face is majorly fucked up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He's still an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such hatred Carla.  Why?  You want citizens to bow to the feds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bow?  What is it exactly that you think they're doing there? The Hammond's don't want them there.
Click to expand...


WTH?  I don't care.  They are giving the feds a hard time.  That's awesome!  I stand behind them 100%.


----------



## blackhawk

Maybe there pissed off over a video.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Here's what I think should happen. I think they need to cut off the electricity, cut off the land lines and jam up the cell phone frequencies, cut the water, and block the entrance and media from the wildlife refuge. 

Ignore their sorry asses. They'll go home, it's cold outside.

Or we could lure them out with some Jim Beam.


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's called RW-loon-hillbilly disease.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No seriously, this guy either had a stroke, an accident or has a birth defect.  His face is majorly fucked up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He's still an idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Such hatred Carla.  Why?  You want citizens to bow to the feds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bow?  What is it exactly that you think they're doing there? The Hammond's don't want them there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WTH?  I don't care.  They are giving the feds a hard time.  That's awesome!  I stand behind them 100%.
Click to expand...



Okie doke.


----------



## ChrisL

Not surprising that the government would be AGAINST _anti-government_ militias.  Lol.    Too bad.


----------



## Carla_Danger

*"You know you’re a badass Tea Party patriot motherfucker when your militia takes over an unprotected bird sanctuary" -- Jim Wright, Stonekettle Station.*


----------



## Dot Com

ChrisL said:


> Not surprising that the government would be AGAINST _anti-government_ militias.  Lol.    Too bad.


You are in this thread exactly why tinfoil grl?

As to the OP, those insurrectionists need to be put down hard and fast


----------



## ChrisL

Dot Com said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising that the government would be AGAINST _anti-government_ militias.  Lol.    Too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> You are in this thread exactly why tinfoil grl?
> 
> As to the OP, those insurrectionists need to be put down hard and fast
Click to expand...


It's hilarious.


----------



## ChrisL




----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Not surprising that the government would be AGAINST _anti-government_ militias.  Lol.    Too bad.




Not to worry, FEMA will rescue these idiots before they freeze to death.

Here's the supply room at the #Bundymilitia Malhuer refuge takeover.







I bet these idiots will turn to cannibalism within one week.


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising that the government would be AGAINST _anti-government_ militias.  Lol.    Too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> You are in this thread exactly why tinfoil grl?
> 
> As to the OP, those insurrectionists need to be put down hard and fast
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's hilarious.
Click to expand...



Now that I agree with.


----------



## Manonthestreet

ChrisL said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
Click to expand...

Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........


----------



## ChrisL

Manonthestreet said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........
Click to expand...


What are you talking about?


----------



## Camp

Taxpayers have been paying to maintain that land for over a hundred years. The Refuge was enlarged with the purchase of large segments of land. The land was purchased with taxpayer money. Another section of it was obtained through a treaty with a native American tribe. The historical buildings are over 80 years old and were built by workers during the depression in the 1930's. Someone should please explain why these guys have a right to confiscate our property. Why should they not be charged with the crimes they have committed?


----------



## ChrisL

Manonthestreet said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........
Click to expand...


Where did I say I was going to "join" them?  I'm on the other side of the country for one thing.  For another thing, I like that they are giving the federal government shit.  They need to know that they do not call the shots.  WE the people call the shots.  They work for US and do what we say.  They have gotten MUCH too big and much too powerful and need to be taken down a few notches at least.


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did I say I was going to "join" them?  I'm on the other side of the country for one thing.  For another thing, I like that they are giving the federal government shit.  They need to know that they do not call the shots.  WE the people call the shots.  They work for US and do what we say.  They have gotten MUCH too big and much too powerful and need to be taken down a few notches at least.
Click to expand...



And you think the government is going to be taken down by a handful of goobers? Please tell me you're joking.


----------



## ChrisL

Carla_Danger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did I say I was going to "join" them?  I'm on the other side of the country for one thing.  For another thing, I like that they are giving the federal government shit.  They need to know that they do not call the shots.  WE the people call the shots.  They work for US and do what we say.  They have gotten MUCH too big and much too powerful and need to be taken down a few notches at least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you think the government is going to be taken down by a handful of goobers? Please tell me you're joking.
Click to expand...


Goobers will take over the world!


----------



## Manonthestreet

ChrisL said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did I say I was going to "join" them?  I'm on the other side of the country for one thing.  For another thing, I like that they are giving the federal government shit.  They need to know that they do not call the shots.  WE the people call the shots.  They work for US and do what we say.  They have gotten MUCH too big and much too powerful and need to be taken down a few notches at least.
Click to expand...


Didnt say you were....asked if you would.....while some of that maybe true the PR battle was lost minute defendant disavowed the effort, thus the effort itself will never be perceived as legitimate. Add in clusterfuck organization and you have a ready made disaster useful to discredit any future efforts that might actually be more necessary than this.


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did I say I was going to "join" them?  I'm on the other side of the country for one thing.  For another thing, I like that they are giving the federal government shit.  They need to know that they do not call the shots.  WE the people call the shots.  They work for US and do what we say.  They have gotten MUCH too big and much too powerful and need to be taken down a few notches at least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you think the government is going to be taken down by a handful of goobers? Please tell me you're joking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Goobers will take over the world!
Click to expand...



If you want to see something funny, watch their goodbye videos they posted on youtube.  LOL!


----------



## ChrisL

Manonthestreet said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> TBH, I think this is kind of awesome.  Lol.    I wish them good luck and hope they get what they want.  Fuck the government!!  Yeah!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did I say I was going to "join" them?  I'm on the other side of the country for one thing.  For another thing, I like that they are giving the federal government shit.  They need to know that they do not call the shots.  WE the people call the shots.  They work for US and do what we say.  They have gotten MUCH too big and much too powerful and need to be taken down a few notches at least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didnt say you were....asked if you would.....while some of that maybe true the PR battle was lost minute defendant disavowed the effort, thus the effort itself will never be perceived as legitimate. Add in clusterfuck organization and you have a ready made disaster useful to discredit any future efforts that might actually be more necessary than this.
Click to expand...


Well I disagree.  I think that more people will be willing to stand up for themselves against the all powerful federal government after witnessing this little "situation."


----------



## ChrisL

Carla_Danger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> 
> 
> Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did I say I was going to "join" them?  I'm on the other side of the country for one thing.  For another thing, I like that they are giving the federal government shit.  They need to know that they do not call the shots.  WE the people call the shots.  They work for US and do what we say.  They have gotten MUCH too big and much too powerful and need to be taken down a few notches at least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you think the government is going to be taken down by a handful of goobers? Please tell me you're joking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Goobers will take over the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to see something funny, watch their goodbye videos they posted on youtube.  LOL!
Click to expand...


Maybe later.  I have to get some sleep now.


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did I say I was going to "join" them?  I'm on the other side of the country for one thing.  For another thing, I like that they are giving the federal government shit.  They need to know that they do not call the shots.  WE the people call the shots.  They work for US and do what we say.  They have gotten MUCH too big and much too powerful and need to be taken down a few notches at least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you think the government is going to be taken down by a handful of goobers? Please tell me you're joking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Goobers will take over the world!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to see something funny, watch their goodbye videos they posted on youtube.  LOL!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe later.  I have to get some sleep now.
Click to expand...



Have a good one!


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.

How fucked up is that?


----------



## Tilly

SwimExpert said:


> Aaaand Tipsy the terrorist is on ignore....


How is Tipsy a terrorist?


----------



## Katzndogz

Tilly said:


> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aaaand Tipsy the terrorist is on ignore....
> 
> 
> 
> How is Tipsy a terrorist?
Click to expand...

Made it up and pulled it out of his ass.


----------



## bucs90

Megan Kelly on Fox is interviewing Aman Bundy on air.....and she is calling him a lawless criminal and taking him to task.

So....yeah....we are calling them criminals. Because they are exactly that.

She just called him out on the groups indication of being willing to be violent.

So...yeah...CC has no point once again.


----------



## TheCrusader

bullwinkle said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
Click to expand...


Well I highly doubt he is as "cowardly" as actual Suicide terrorists like the ones blowing themselves up for Allah...the ones that these right wingers call cowards.


----------



## Tilly

mikegriffith1 said:


> Swim Expert, we should deport you to ISIStan and let you see what real terrorists look like. Some ranchers who go a bit too far in protesting federal land grabbing by occupying a federal facility are not "terrorists." Where did the federal government get off grabbing all that land in the first place? Huh? Most of that land should be given back to the people and put to productive use.


Well, he's already called Tipsycatlover and Tinydancer terrorists, so I think it's clear he needs some help


----------



## Tilly

bravoactual said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sad thing is that if they were Muslims, they would be immediately labeled terrorists, and the building would have been stormed and the occupants shot dead by now. Instead, since its a bunch of white people, they are simply holding a 'peaceful protest' and are not terrorists at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True that.
> 
> This is just, a group of Armed Black Men just seized control of Federal Wildlife Management Office in Oregon.
> 
> Take the headline from there.  The RWNJ would be calling it Terrorism with even blinking.  Throw a few Muslims into the mix and Fox Lies would be covering 24/7.
> 
> Right Wing Terrorism plain and simple.
Click to expand...

Islamic terrorists tend to wear bomb vests and blow people and buildings up.


----------



## Tilly

SwimExpert said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> These people are not terrorists.
> They are ranchers who have been abused  by the Feds because the Feds have wanted to get that land since the 1970's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *They don't even fucking live there!*
> 
> You're a real piece of shit for defending these terrorists.  Too bad you weren't in the towers when they came down.  We lost real Americans that day.  We could have afforded to get rid of you.
Click to expand...

What a nasty screechy bitch.


----------



## Tilly

Old Rocks said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
Click to expand...

Now you want them hanged?


----------



## Camp

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?


You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.


----------



## Blackrook

This is a direct challenge to the federal government, and is far more serious than a terrorist attack or a riot.  Obama will have no clue what to do.


----------



## Tilly

Camp said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
Click to expand...

Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?


----------



## Agit8r

Mad Scientist said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
Click to expand...


They don't want to buy hay, so they graze their herds illegally on land that belongs to the American taxpayer.  They want to be the landed aristocracy that real patriots fought a revolution to abolish.


----------



## J.E.D

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Send Pork rinds ASAP
> 
> *This Anti-Government Oregon Terrorist Took Thousands In Government Money*
> 
> 
> 
> One of the ringleaders of the terror-minded militia group who are illegally occupying a National Park service building got a six figure loan from the government...
> 
> January 4, 2016, 8:46 pm
> *Anti-Government Terrorists Forgot Snacks, Want You To Send Via U.S. Mail*
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday Blaine Cooper, one of the anti-government terrorists who is participating in the armed takeover of a bird sanctuary in Oregon, put out a call...









"We don't want your money", but, if you go to this website, there's a donation tab. 

How many USMB Vanilla ISIS sympathizer suckers have given up cigarette money for the week to support these Patriots?


----------



## aaronleland

Blackrook said:


> This is a direct challenge to the federal government, and is far more serious than a terrorist attack or a riot.  Obama will have no clue what to do.



In fairness, it wouldn't be an easy decision for anybody to make. The federal government is forced to walk a fine line on this one. The last thing they want is a repeat of Waco, and in turn another Oklahoma City. You are correct that they don't seem to know what the hell to do at this point. In the end they may be forced to take aggressive action, and hope for the best.


----------



## Agit8r

aaronleland said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a direct challenge to the federal government, and is far more serious than a terrorist attack or a riot.  Obama will have no clue what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fairness, it wouldn't be an easy decision for anybody to make. The federal government is forced to walk a fine line on this one. The last thing they want is a repeat of Waco, and in turn another Oklahoma City. You are correct that they don't seem to know what the hell to do at this point. In the end they may be forced to take aggressive action, and hope for the best.
Click to expand...


I'm sure that it will eventually come to a point where law enforcement seals the perimeter and starves them out.  They forgot to bring snacks after all.


----------



## Geaux4it

ABikerSailor said:


> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?



If blacks clean up their act, maybe things will change

-Geaux


----------



## Geaux4it

ABikerSailor said:


> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?



Another issue is'

BLM is protesting against white cops

Oregon is a protest against the government

-Geaux


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Camp

Tilly said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
Click to expand...

Not if they know them personally. By neighbors, I mean people who live in that community or area. I do not mean the people who live in the house next door. In a sparsely populated like the area in question everyone becomes your "neighbor".


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> saveliberty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good to see the media is giving them all the attention they want...
> 
> 
> 
> The Oregonian has ignored the issue for decades. They have nothing but contempt for the people who live in the far reaches.
Click to expand...

the 'issue' isn't decades old


----------



## ogibillm

Manonthestreet said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down' Cruz urges armed protesters in Oregon to 'stand down'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the law of averages finally came through. I agree with Ted Cruz on something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As a freshman at Columbia University in 1970, future Attorney General Eric Holder participated in a five-day occupation of an abandoned Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) headquarters with a group of black students later described by the university’s Black Students’ Organization as “armed,” The Daily Caller has learned. As college student, Eric Holder participated in ‘armed’ takeover of former Columbia University ROTC office
Click to expand...

not a government building


----------



## Old Rocks

ChrisL said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you're kidding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No way!  It's about time somebody had the nuts to stand up to the bully federal government!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Think about what you have.....a disavowed effort by the defendant...... god knows who straggling in as "militiamen", no clear chain of who's calling the shots, probable FED agents mixed in, would you join, put your life and reputation in hands of people you dont know........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where did I say I was going to "join" them?  I'm on the other side of the country for one thing.  For another thing, I like that they are giving the federal government shit.  They need to know that they do not call the shots.  WE the people call the shots.  They work for US and do what we say.  They have gotten MUCH too big and much too powerful and need to be taken down a few notches at least.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Didnt say you were....asked if you would.....while some of that maybe true the PR battle was lost minute defendant disavowed the effort, thus the effort itself will never be perceived as legitimate. Add in clusterfuck organization and you have a ready made disaster useful to discredit any future efforts that might actually be more necessary than this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well I disagree.  I think that more people will be willing to stand up for themselves against the all powerful federal government after witnessing this little "situation."
Click to expand...

And you are out of your ever lovin' little mind. These people are cowardly bullies. No one wants them in Harney County. They could not get any citizens of Harney County to go with them on this whacked out venture. They are outsiders, and only wish for bloodshed. 

Given that they have committed criminal trespass, sedition, as defined by the law, and various other crimes, they all should be spend many years in the iron bar hotel when this is over.


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> Articles: Distrust of federal land agencies escalates with conviction of Oregon ranchers. The fires were beneficial to wildlife, and the prosecutors lied. The Hammonds pled for a lighter sentence in return for their promise not to contest...which they did not. It's time for war. Our judicial and executive branches are thoroughly corrupted.


you just can't wait for an excuse to kill Americans, can you? why do you hate thie constitution so much?


----------



## Old Rocks

Tilly said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
Click to expand...

A jury of your peers, silly ass.


----------



## Old Rocks

Tilly said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
Click to expand...

If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.


----------



## peach174

Old Rocks said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
Click to expand...



Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
Click to expand...

do you think that's over?


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
Click to expand...

This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?
> 
> 
> 
> The difference of course is that the militia aren't attacking anybody. And the Harney county group are protesting specific tyrannical actions...not just 'bad police arrests us when we loot!'
Click to expand...

Really? Is that why they have totally changed their demands? The Hammond's and all of Harney County want nothing to do with the assholes. They have threatened the local Sheriff, and committed sedition. They are unwanted outsiders, and need to face full charged for their criminal actions.


----------



## Old Rocks

Geaux4it said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another issue is'
> 
> BLM is protesting against white cops
> 
> Oregon is a protest against the government
> 
> -Geaux
Click to expand...

God Damn it. Get it straight, no one down there at the Refuge is from Harney County. They are all outsiders, and no one in the County wants them there. Oregon is not protesting the federal government at all. In fact, most Oregonians feel that this is a takeover of their land by a bunch of armed loons. And that these people should spend many years in jail for their actions.


----------



## Camp

y





peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
Click to expand...

The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area. 
This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:

www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html


----------



## Wry Catcher

koshergrl said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?
> 
> 
> 
> The difference of course is that the militia aren't attacking anybody. And the Harney county group are protesting specific tyrannical actions...not just 'bad police arrests us when we loot!'
Click to expand...


Define "tyrannical actions"?


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another issue is'
> 
> BLM is protesting against white cops
> 
> Oregon is a protest against the government
> 
> -Geaux
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God Damn it. Get it straight, no one down there at the Refuge is from Harney County. They are all outsiders, and no one in the County wants them there. Oregon is not protesting the federal government at all. In fact, most Oregonians feel that this is a takeover of their land by a bunch of armed loons. And that these people should spend many years in jail for their actions.
Click to expand...

Old rocks is just repeating the script the left is promoting. Most Oregonians in the city have their uneducated opinion..which is at odds with the locals..who are fine with it and are supportive. I have their prayers all over my Facebook. Old rocks doesn't know or speak for those people. He's an outsider, a coward, and a lefty.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Blackrook said:


> This is a direct challenge to the federal government, and is far more serious than a terrorist attack or a riot.  Obama will have no clue what to do.



In his shoes, what would you do?


----------



## peach174

Camp said:


> y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area.
> This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:
> 
> www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
Click to expand...



At least they are not burning down peoples businesses and stealing things.
How about the OWS who shut down business so that the people could not go into the shops and they destroyed the parks that taxpayers had to pay for to be cleaned up.

Do you have a link about the schools being shut down?


----------



## Geaux4it

Wry Catcher said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a direct challenge to the federal government, and is far more serious than a terrorist attack or a riot.  Obama will have no clue what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In his shoes, what would you do?
Click to expand...


I'll answer it. If appropriate, go arrest them. Serve arrest warrants at the door. Hand cuff them, and off you go

No tanks, no drones or helos. Just man up, and knock on the door and do your job

-Geaux


----------



## jon_berzerk

peach174 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area.
> This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:
> 
> www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are not burning down peoples businesses and stealing things.
> How about the OWS who shut down business so that the people could not go into the shops and they destroyed the parks that taxpayers had to pay for to be cleaned up.
> 
> Do you have a link about the schools being shut down?
Click to expand...


the news reported that schools in the area had been shut down for the week


----------



## Wry Catcher

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another issue is'
> 
> BLM is protesting against white cops
> 
> Oregon is a protest against the government
> 
> -Geaux
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> God Damn it. Get it straight, no one down there at the Refuge is from Harney County. They are all outsiders, and no one in the County wants them there. Oregon is not protesting the federal government at all. In fact, most Oregonians feel that this is a takeover of their land by a bunch of armed loons. And that these people should spend many years in jail for their actions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Old rocks is just repeating the script the left is promoting. Most Oregonians in the city have their uneducated opinion..which is at odds with the locals..who are fine with it and are supportive. I have their prayers all over my Facebook. Old rocks doesn't know or speak for those people. He's an outsider, a coward, and a lefty.
Click to expand...


If their cause is just, why have you not heeded their request, grabbed your gun and headed out to join them?  

Define Tyrannical!!


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> <snip> A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence.<snip>



Not quite true.  Harney county and therefore the state of Oregon did not file charges, therefore the Feds did and used a terrorist law from 1996, making them just not arsonists, but terrorists.


----------



## Geaux4it

*The Shot Heard Round the Word: 
The Battles of Lexington and Concord*

The clash began on April 19, 1775 when more about 700 British soldiers were given what they thought were secret orders to destroy colonial military supplies in Concord, Massachusetts. Fortunately, thanks to a rather elaborate colonial intelligence network, led by the Sons of Liberty, the Patriots were aware that their supplies were at risk, and were able to move them to different locations long before the British began to move. Also, thanks to the daring rides of a few brave men, the colonial militia knew that an engagement with the British Army was imminent.

The Shot Heard Round the World


----------



## Wry Catcher

Geaux4it said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a direct challenge to the federal government, and is far more serious than a terrorist attack or a riot.  Obama will have no clue what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In his shoes, what would you do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll answer it. If appropriate, go arrest them. Serve arrest warrants at the door. Hand cuff them, and off you go
> 
> No tanks, no drones or helos. Just man up, and knock on the door and do your job
> 
> -Geaux
Click to expand...


"Just man up"?  LMAO, another armchair QB who never played a game.  Let them stay the winter, blockade the roads in and out and let them eat snow.


----------



## Geaux4it

Wry Catcher said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a direct challenge to the federal government, and is far more serious than a terrorist attack or a riot.  Obama will have no clue what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In his shoes, what would you do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll answer it. If appropriate, go arrest them. Serve arrest warrants at the door. Hand cuff them, and off you go
> 
> No tanks, no drones or helos. Just man up, and knock on the door and do your job
> 
> -Geaux
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Just man up"?  LMAO, another armchair QB who never played a game.  Let them stay the winter, blockade the roads in and out and let them eat snow.
Click to expand...


Why not serve warrants and arrest them.... if appropriate

-Geaux


----------



## teddyearp

Skylar said:


> So with *pictures and video* of Bundy's crew being armed, calling for others to 'bring your arms' and calls by militia men for Dwight Hammond to 'die here with us'.....
> 
> ....does it matter to you in the slightest? Or did you ask for evidence you were intent on ignoring from the start?



No, thank you for the pictures.  This thread just blew up so fast, I went to bed last night after my few posts.  I do stand corrected.  But they are not armed and storming the place, i.e. like a terrorist attack.  They just happen to be occupying the premises and are legally carrying firearms.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Geaux4it said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a direct challenge to the federal government, and is far more serious than a terrorist attack or a riot.  Obama will have no clue what to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In his shoes, what would you do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll answer it. If appropriate, go arrest them. Serve arrest warrants at the door. Hand cuff them, and off you go
> 
> No tanks, no drones or helos. Just man up, and knock on the door and do your job
> 
> -Geaux
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Just man up"?  LMAO, another armchair QB who never played a game.  Let them stay the winter, blockade the roads in and out and let them eat snow.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not serve warrants and arrest them.... if appropriate
> 
> -Geaux
Click to expand...


Why take the risk?  As on scene commander I would make sure my men had food, shelter, clothing and enough man power for relief shifts. Warrant are not a bad idea, but going up to the door when armed men are known to be on scene is foolish and not necessary.

The weather and limited food supplies will do the job.  Why give these guys an excuse to use fire power?  My guess is no command and control exists within the self proclaimed militia; cold, lack of sleep and hot food will take its toll.


----------



## ClosedCaption

bucs90 said:


> Megan Kelly on Fox is interviewing Aman Bundy on air.....and she is calling him a lawless criminal and taking him to task.
> 
> So....yeah....we are calling them criminals. Because they are exactly that.
> 
> She just called him out on the groups indication of being willing to be violent.
> 
> So...yeah...CC has no point once again.



Megan  Kelly?  Was she bleeding again?


----------



## ogibillm

teddyearp said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence.<snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite true.  Harney county and therefore the state of Oregon did not file charges, therefore the Feds did and used a terrorist law from 1996, making them just not arsonists, but terrorists.
Click to expand...

they burned federal property. the charges matched the crime. the jury said so.


----------



## ogibillm

teddyearp said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> So with *pictures and video* of Bundy's crew being armed, calling for others to 'bring your arms' and calls by militia men for Dwight Hammond to 'die here with us'.....
> 
> ....does it matter to you in the slightest? Or did you ask for evidence you were intent on ignoring from the start?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, thank you for the pictures.  This thread just blew up so fast, I went to bed last night after my few posts.  I do stand corrected.  But they are not armed and storming the place, i.e. like a terrorist attack.  They just happen to be occupying the premises and are legally carrying firearms.
Click to expand...

they are not legally carrying


----------



## ClosedCaption

Geaux4it said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another issue is'
> 
> BLM is protesting against white cops
> 
> Oregon is a protest against the government
> 
> -Geaux
Click to expand...


False.  You still dont know what BLM is protesting.  Either by ignorance which is hard to believe or simply lying which is more probable


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
Click to expand...

They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.


----------



## Camp

peach174 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area.
> This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:
> 
> www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are not burning down peoples businesses and stealing things.
> How about the OWS who shut down business so that the people could not go into the shops and they destroyed the parks that taxpayers had to pay for to be cleaned up.
> 
> Do you have a link about the schools being shut down?
Click to expand...

I got it from this article and the twitter from a local reporter who said he got it from school officials. 
www.wweek.com/2016/01/02/militia-group-takes-over-federal-building-in-eastern-oregon-because-the-lord-was-not-pleased/


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
Click to expand...

nobody is stealing land. dumbass.


----------



## koshergrl

teddyearp said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence.<snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite true.  Harney county and therefore the state of Oregon did not file charges, therefore the Feds did and used a terrorist law from 1996, making them just not arsonists, but terrorists.
Click to expand...

Or is a proven liar. Oregon and their peers gave them a token sentence. A crazy Obama appointee came in later and appealed the sentence and added to it. The appointee quit for mental health reasons after stalking, and taking a hit out on, another attorney.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

White guys dumped tea into the Boston Harbor too


----------



## CrusaderFrank




----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?
> 
> 
> 
> The difference of course is that the militia aren't attacking anybody. And the Harney county group are protesting specific tyrannical actions...not just 'bad police arrests us when we loot!'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? Is that why they have totally changed their demands? The Hammond's and all of Harney County want nothing to do with the assholes. They have threatened the local Sheriff, and committed sedition. They are unwanted outsiders, and need to face full charged for their criminal actions.
Click to expand...

 they haven't threatened anyone, and the hammonds have not asked them to leave, liar.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. They have posted signs and made it clear they don't one the militia thugs in their town. The wildlife refuge is a major source of tourist income for the local businesses and that source is being halted as long as the refuge is closed.


----------



## teddyearp

koshergrl said:


> Or is a proven liar. Oregon and their peers gave them a token sentence. A crazy Obama appointee came in later and appealed the sentence and added to it. The appointee quit for mental health reasons after stalking, and taking a hit out on, another attorney.



Also not true.  Do a few hours at the least of research like I did before posting here last night and you will find the same things I did.  Of course you have to muddle through some pretty extreme claims from both sides, but there is some truth to be had there.

They were arrested by Harney county and then released.  the prosecutor never filed charges.  Years later the feds did, and yes, it was after Obama was in office as a matter of fact . . . . hmmm. . .


----------



## IsaacNewton

This whole thing has to have conservative's heads exploding. They whine day and night how "we showed up unarmed, THIS TIME", and like to threaten people with guns. And at the same time this Bundy racist clan, who actually physically act out this 'philosophy' have to be shunned because cons won't ever really take up arms and won't really defend a 2nd amendment or 'don't tread on me' idea, they just mouth the words.

How emasculating this type situation must be for them. It puts on display the outright lie this whole '2nd amendment, gun rights' crap is.

"We came unarmed, this time". And you'll be unarmed sitting at home on your couch or at your pc the next 20 times as well. Its who you really are.


----------



## Camp

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
Click to expand...

I have given a link that has a section that explains how this property was obtained, including the outright cash payment for ranch lands with taxpayer funds.
www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
Somebody needs to explain why taxpayer property is being confiscated by men with guns.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Yahoos decide to take over a federal building in the hopes of fomenting governmental overthrow…but forgot to bring snacks and toilet paper?

Their new flag -


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence.<snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite true.  Harney county and therefore the state of Oregon did not file charges, therefore the Feds did and used a terrorist law from 1996, making them just not arsonists, but terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or is a proven liar. Oregon and their peers gave them a token sentence. A crazy Obama appointee came in later and appealed the sentence and added to it. The appointee quit for mental health reasons after stalking, and taking a hit out on, another attorney.
Click to expand...

they were convicted of a crime that carried a MANDATORY MINIMUM sentence.

why do you support judicial activism?


----------



## koshergrl

teddyearp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or is a proven liar. Oregon and their peers gave them a token sentence. A crazy Obama appointee came in later and appealed the sentence and added to it. The appointee quit for mental health reasons after stalking, and taking a hit out on, another attorney.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also not true.  Do a few hours at the least of research like I did before posting here last night and you will find the same things I did.  Of course you have to muddle through some pretty extreme claims from both sides, but there is some truth to be had there.
> 
> They were arrested by Harney county and then released.  the prosecutor never filed charges.  Years later the feds did, and yes, it was after Obama was in office as a matter of fact . . . . hmmm. . .
Click to expand...

What the hell are you talking about? I do know the case background...and your synopsis is not accurate. The Case for Civil Disobedience in Oregon, by David French, National Review


----------



## saveliberty

So this is a Constitutional issue?

Apparently these guys set fire to federal lands to help their ranch.  Wouldn't you need permission regardless of whose property you start a fire on?  I suspect a burn permit might be in order as well.  The Constitution does not give the right to use another's property.

On the other hand, being sentenced for a crime, serving that sentence and then being resentenced for a longer term seems unconstitutional.  Yet the offenders are not challenging that, so I am not sure what to make of that.

The response of taking over federal land seems unconstitutional, as it restricts citizens rights to visit that land.  Enfringement on my rights to exert yours is not Constitutional. This argument carries over to Black Lives Matter occupation of Chicago businesses.

Add in Obama's executive orders on gun control and it is obvious Americans do not understand the Constitution very well.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

*Oregon Militiamen Asking for Snacks, Socks, Money on Facebook*

.... Ammon Bundy initially told _The Oregonian_ that his group was ready to occupy the building "for years, absolutely," ...

"We are not asking for money," a message from Jon Ritzheimer, an organizer of assorted anti-Islam rallies, posted by one Blaine Cooper, reads. But "we will humbly accept money donations," the post continues. 

"Things we could use," the post adds, before listing: "Cold weather socks, snacks, energy drinks, equipment for cold weather, snow camo, gear," and "anything you think will help." 

So maybe "years" was a bit ambitious.


----------



## Dot Com

Camp said:


> Taxpayers have been paying to maintain that land for over a hundred years. The Refuge was enlarged with the purchase of large segments of land. The land was purchased with taxpayer money. Another section of it was obtained through a treaty with a native American tribe. The historical buildings are over 80 years old and were built by workers during the depression in the 1930's. Someone should please explain why these *RETARDS* have a right to confiscate our property. Why should they not be charged with the crimes they have committed?


Fixed it for you.

Yeah just a bunch of low-info, insurrectionists. The Hammonds didn't ant them there and the town either. They're Nevada tinhorn soldier wannabes


----------



## koshergrl

Agit8r said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't want to buy hay, so they graze their herds illegally on land that belongs to the American taxpayer.  They want to be the landed aristocracy that real patriots fought a revolution to abolish.
Click to expand...

Er no, this is not about grazing rights.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't want to buy hay, so they graze their herds illegally on land that belongs to the American taxpayer.  They want to be the landed aristocracy that real patriots fought a revolution to abolish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Er no, this is not about grazing rights.
Click to expand...



Since you say you're an authority on every aspect of their criminal behavior, what do they want?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

ABikerSailor said:


> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?




That's different. Blacks don't have the right to protest - just shoot them in the back.

Problem solved.


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
Click to expand...

Supply a VALID link stating that the Townspeople support the outsiders coming-in and basically disrupting these peoples lives.


----------



## ogibillm

Dot Com said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Supply a VALID link stating that the Townspeople support the outsiders coming-in and basically disrupting these peoples lives.
Click to expand...

im sure they are all very happy that the school had to be shut down over safety concerns


----------



## Dot Com

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence.<snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite true.  Harney county and therefore the state of Oregon did not file charges, therefore the Feds did and used a terrorist law from 1996, making them just not arsonists, but terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or is a proven liar. Oregon and their peers gave them a token sentence. A crazy Obama appointee came in later and appealed the sentence and added to it. The appointee quit for mental health reasons after stalking, and taking a hit out on, another attorney.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they were convicted of a crime that carried a MANDATORY MINIMUM sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
Click to expand...

yeah kgrill? 

As to the OP, those tards are down to their last twinkie no doubt


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
Click to expand...



Yes they are.
They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.


----------



## Camp

The ranchers who started the fires and were convicted of arson had their own friends and family testifying that they started the fire to cover-up deer poaching. Here is the government version:
www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison
Bad link fixed. Works now.


----------



## Iceweasel

IsaacNewton said:


> This whole thing has to have conservative's heads exploding. They whine da...


If you really think that...

YOU'VE BEEN SCHLONGED!


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> The ranchers who started the fires and were convicted of arson had their own friends and family testifying that they started the fire to cover-up deer poaching. Here is the government version:
> www.justice.gov/usao-or/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison


page not found


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
> BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
> They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
> They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
> Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.
Click to expand...

pretty sure most of those claims are bunk, but i know for sure that the hammonds troubles have nothing to do with anyone grabbing their land


----------



## koshergrl

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ranchers who started the fires and were convicted of arson had their own friends and family testifying that they started the fire to cover-up deer poaching. Here is the government version:
> www.justice.gov/usao-or/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison
> 
> 
> 
> page not found
Click to expand...

I found it.


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Supply a VALID link stating that the Townspeople support the outsiders coming-in and basically disrupting these peoples lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> im sure they are all very happy that the school had to be shut down over safety concerns
Click to expand...



A bunch of hysterical libs overreacting.
There is absolutely no reason they should have shut down the schools.


----------



## Wry Catcher

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't want to buy hay, so they graze their herds illegally on land that belongs to the American taxpayer.  They want to be the landed aristocracy that real patriots fought a revolution to abolish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Er no, this is not about grazing rights.
Click to expand...


Rights?  Do I have the right to buy a cow or two and graze them in Golden Gate Park.  How about goats, goats are cool and will eat most anything, I could graze them at the Hall of Flowers in GG Park, it's public land!


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ranchers who started the fires and were convicted of arson had their own friends and family testifying that they started the fire to cover-up deer poaching. Here is the government version:
> www.justice.gov/usao-or/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison
> 
> 
> 
> page not found
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I found it.
Click to expand...


maybe i am blocked 


*Page not found*


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ranchers who started the fires and were convicted of arson had their own friends and family testifying that they started the fire to cover-up deer poaching. Here is the government version:
> www.justice.gov/usao-or/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison
> 
> 
> 
> page not found
Click to expand...

Sorry, I repaired the bad link in the original post, but here it is again.

www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison


----------



## Luddly Neddite

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't want to buy hay, so they graze their herds illegally on land that belongs to the American taxpayer.  They want to be the landed aristocracy that real patriots fought a revolution to abolish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Er no, this is not about grazing rights.
Click to expand...



Well? 

koshergrl 

What do they want? 

Besides toilet paper, I mean.


----------



## koshergrl

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> 
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Supply a VALID link stating that the Townspeople support the outsiders coming-in and basically disrupting these peoples lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> im sure they are all very happy that the school had to be shut down over safety concerns
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A bunch of hysterical libs overreacting.
> There is absolutely no reason they should have shut down the schools.
Click to expand...

They're afraid a progressive zealot will get worked up and target their kids.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Wry Catcher said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't want to buy hay, so they graze their herds illegally on land that belongs to the American taxpayer.  They want to be the landed aristocracy that real patriots fought a revolution to abolish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Er no, this is not about grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rights?  Do I have the right to buy a cow or two and graze them in Golden Gate Park.  How about goats, goats are cool and will eat most anything, I could graze them at the Hall of Flowers in GG Park, it's public land!
Click to expand...



A very real plus about these idiotic shenanigans is that it calls attention to welfare ranching. 

They already get huge tax subsidies but they want the land for free.


----------



## koshergrl

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence.<snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite true.  Harney county and therefore the state of Oregon did not file charges, therefore the Feds did and used a terrorist law from 1996, making them just not arsonists, but terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or is a proven liar. Oregon and their peers gave them a token sentence. A crazy Obama appointee came in later and appealed the sentence and added to it. The appointee quit for mental health reasons after stalking, and taking a hit out on, another attorney.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they were convicted of a crime that carried a MANDATORY MINIMUM sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
Click to expand...

The judge ruled that the mandatory minimum in this case was unconstitutional, based on a lack of intent and zero property damage. The judicial activism was on the part of the ninth. It's what they're notorious for.


----------



## koshergrl

Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> 
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
> BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
> They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
> They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
> Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure most of those claims are bunk, but i know for sure that the hammonds troubles have nothing to do with anyone grabbing their land
Click to expand...



NO they are not bunk.
I know quite a few ranchers here in S.Arizona who have had to fight the BLM thugs.
My Husband used to work for a ranch in the early 1980's. BLM tried to take his ranch. He was a rich land owner and a Doctor, so he took them to court and won. Most don't have the money to do this.

Here is the history of how BLM got all of the other ranchers out around the Hammonds ranch.
Almost the same story with all of the ranchers who lived around the Bundy's ranch.
Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...

In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.

By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.

 During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.

 By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.

This is just one story out of thousands of BLM and the Justice system of abuse.

For 40 years the Feds have abused their power in order to get more land for what they want and the people have had enough of it.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

koshergrl said:


> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.




And yet, you can't say what they want. 

Yeah, right. 

You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.


----------



## koshergrl

Luddly Neddite said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
Click to expand...

They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.


----------



## peach174

ClosedCaption said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Megan Kelly on Fox is interviewing Aman Bundy on air.....and she is calling him a lawless criminal and taking him to task.
> 
> So....yeah....we are calling them criminals. Because they are exactly that.
> 
> She just called him out on the groups indication of being willing to be violent.
> 
> So...yeah...CC has no point once again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Megan  Kelly?  Was she bleeding again?
Click to expand...



He dropped the part where Bundy said he does not want violence, but would fight back if they fired first.
These are American Citizens who want the Feds to control themselves under the Constitution and stop abusing the people.


----------



## Wry Catcher

koshergrl said:


> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.



per se it is not.  The fact is public lands can be leased for grazing, they cannot be used by anyone for anything without permission.  That includes burning them, fencing them, grazing on them or armed personnel moving in and pretending they have rights they do not have.


----------



## Dot Com

why isn't allie providing any links for her zany statements? 

Firemen had to vacate their positions because some profit-driven tinhorn set illegal fires.

The mysterious fires that led to the Bundy clan’s Oregon standoff


> “Congress sought to ensure that anyone who maliciously damages United States’ property by fire will serve at least 5 years in prison,” acting U.S. attorney Billy Williams said in a statement in October. “These sentences are intended to be long enough to deter those like the Hammonds who disregard the law and *place fire fighters and others in jeopardy.”*
> 
> The trouble with the Hammonds and fire began in 2001. That year, the government showed, Steven Hammond went hunting, killing deer on land under control of the Bureau of Land Management. What to do to erase evidence of this game violation? Break out the matches.
> 
> “Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out ‘Strike Anywhere’ matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to ‘light up the whole country on fire,'” a Justice Department account of the trial read. “One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.”


----------



## bodecea

Dot Com said:


> why isn't allie providing any links for her zany statements?
> 
> Firemen had to vacate their positions because some profit-driven tinhorn set illegal fires.
> 
> The mysterious fires that led to the Bundy clan’s Oregon standoff
> 
> 
> 
> “Congress sought to ensure that anyone who maliciously damages United States’ property by fire will serve at least 5 years in prison,” acting U.S. attorney Billy Williams said in a statement in October. “These sentences are intended to be long enough to deter those like the Hammonds who disregard the law and *place fire fighters and others in jeopardy.”*
> 
> The trouble with the Hammonds and fire began in 2001. That year, the government showed, Steven Hammond went hunting, killing deer on land under control of the Bureau of Land Management. What to do to erase evidence of this game violation? Break out the matches.
> 
> “Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out ‘Strike Anywhere’ matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to ‘light up the whole country on fire,'” a Justice Department account of the trial read. “One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.”
Click to expand...

Apparently, that kind of arson is okay to Allie.


----------



## Dot Com

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> 
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
> BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
> They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
> They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
> Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure most of those claims are bunk, but i know for sure that the hammonds troubles have nothing to do with anyone grabbing their land
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NO they are not bunk.
> I know quite a few ranchers here in S.Arizona who have had to fight the BLM thugs.
> My Husband used to work for a ranch in the early 1980's. BLM tried to take his ranch. He was a rich land owner and a Doctor, so he took them to court and won. Most don't have the money to do this.
> 
> Here is the history of how BLM got all of the other ranchers out around the Hammonds ranch.
> Almost the same story with all of the ranchers who lived around the Bundy's ranch.
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> 
> In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> This is just one story out of thousands of BLM and the Justice system of abuse.
> 
> For 40 years the Feds have abused their power in order to get more land for what they want and the people have had enough of it.
Click to expand...

conservativetreehouse.com?   You trying to emulate PoliChic & her overt partisan sourcing?


----------



## SassyIrishLass

*Assholes making trouble in Oregon*

Ooops, thought this thread was about the Black Lives Bowel Movement......carry on loons


----------



## bodecea

Fence them in and cut off power and water.   And sit back and enjoy.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

*What You Need To Know About The Oregon Militia Standoff  *


----------



## paulitician

Old Rocks said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
Click to expand...


If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.


----------



## basquebromance




----------



## Dot Com

^ rw meme boi is back. Stop w/ the posting of purty picktures son. We already got two rw'ers handling that

As to the OP, they can have a 1000 fire sticks (pun intended) but when they run out of food, its game on


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Federal authorities are planning to cut off the power of the wildlife refuge in Oregon that has been taken over by militia, exposing the armed occupiers to sub-zero temperatures in an effort to flush them out.

Authorities plan to cut off power to militia at occupied Oregon refuge


----------



## peach174

Dot Com said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> 
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
> BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
> They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
> They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
> Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure most of those claims are bunk, but i know for sure that the hammonds troubles have nothing to do with anyone grabbing their land
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NO they are not bunk.
> I know quite a few ranchers here in S.Arizona who have had to fight the BLM thugs.
> My Husband used to work for a ranch in the early 1980's. BLM tried to take his ranch. He was a rich land owner and a Doctor, so he took them to court and won. Most don't have the money to do this.
> 
> Here is the history of how BLM got all of the other ranchers out around the Hammonds ranch.
> Almost the same story with all of the ranchers who lived around the Bundy's ranch.
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> 
> In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> This is just one story out of thousands of BLM and the Justice system of abuse.
> 
> For 40 years the Feds have abused their power in order to get more land for what they want and the people have had enough of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> conservativetreehouse.com?   You trying to emulate PoliChic & her overt partisan sourcing?
Click to expand...



Complain about the link but just ignore the rest of what was said.


----------



## basquebromance




----------



## basquebromance




----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence.<snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite true.  Harney county and therefore the state of Oregon did not file charges, therefore the Feds did and used a terrorist law from 1996, making them just not arsonists, but terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or is a proven liar. Oregon and their peers gave them a token sentence. A crazy Obama appointee came in later and appealed the sentence and added to it. The appointee quit for mental health reasons after stalking, and taking a hit out on, another attorney.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they were convicted of a crime that carried a MANDATORY MINIMUM sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The judge ruled that the mandatory minimum in this case was unconstitutional
Click to expand...

 no, he didn't 





> based on a lack of intent and zero property damage. The judicial activism was on the part of the ninth. It's what they're notorious for.


judicial activism is following the Congressionally set mandatory minimum sentence?

amazing that the 9th circuit is an activist court in your mind for following the law but the judge that ignored the law is not.

just goes to show you're batshit insane


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

"Meal Team 6" holed up in Oregon has asked supporters to send them this month's edition of "Big 'Uns"...a case of Mountain Dew and some Pork rinds and pronto..............


----------



## Dot Com

TyroneSlothrop said:


> "Meal Team 6" holed up in Oregon has asked supporters to send them this month's edition of "Big 'Uns"...a case of Mountain Dew and some Pork rinds and pronto..............


They won't last long on pasta and beans lol. No veggies, no TP, etc...


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> 
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
> BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
> They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
> They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
> Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure most of those claims are bunk, but i know for sure that the hammonds troubles have nothing to do with anyone grabbing their land
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NO they are not bunk.
> I know quite a few ranchers here in S.Arizona who have had to fight the BLM thugs.
> My Husband used to work for a ranch in the early 1980's. BLM tried to take his ranch. He was a rich land owner and a Doctor, so he took them to court and won. Most don't have the money to do this.
> 
> Here is the history of how BLM got all of the other ranchers out around the Hammonds ranch.
> Almost the same story with all of the ranchers who lived around the Bundy's ranch.
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> 
> In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> This is just one story out of thousands of BLM and the Justice system of abuse.
> 
> For 40 years the Feds have abused their power in order to get more land for what they want and the people have had enough of it.
Click to expand...

Let's assume everything you wrote is true (that's a huge assumption) what does any of that have to do with the arson committed by the hammonds?


----------



## basquebromance

Another lawless, unconstitutional overreach. The 2nd Amendment is an individual right. Mr. President, how about enforcing the laws we have?


----------



## peach174

Luddly Neddite said:


> *What You Need To Know About The Oregon Militia Standoff  *




Seriously?
The Onion?
That is a satire site Luddly


----------



## bornright

They should remove them with any amount of power the same as they should have removed the hands up don't shoot mob or the occupy wall street group.  They had the opportunity to be an example to this president and these radical liberal groups by doing things in a legal manner.   Go to court.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

peach174 said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Megan Kelly on Fox is interviewing Aman Bundy on air.....and she is calling him a lawless criminal and taking him to task.
> 
> So....yeah....we are calling them criminals. Because they are exactly that.
> 
> She just called him out on the groups indication of being willing to be violent.
> 
> So...yeah...CC has no point once again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Megan  Kelly?  Was she bleeding again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He dropped the part where Bundy said he does not want violence, but would fight back if they fired first.
> These are American Citizens who want the Feds to control themselves under the Constitution and stop abusing the people.
Click to expand...


If they didn't want violence, they would have taken food and toilet paper instead of guns.

Its not a protest.

Its an armed occupation.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

peach174 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> *What You Need To Know About The Oregon Militia Standoff  *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?
> The Onion?
> That is a satire site Luddly
Click to expand...



Yep. And, as usual, they hit the nail on the head.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

koshergrl said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
Click to expand...



IOW, free grazing at the expense of the tax payer.

And the right to burn it to charcoal.


----------



## ClosedCaption

peach174 said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Megan Kelly on Fox is interviewing Aman Bundy on air.....and she is calling him a lawless criminal and taking him to task.
> 
> So....yeah....we are calling them criminals. Because they are exactly that.
> 
> She just called him out on the groups indication of being willing to be violent.
> 
> So...yeah...CC has no point once again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Megan  Kelly?  Was she bleeding again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *He dropped the part where Bundy said he does not want violence, but would fight back if they fired first.*
Click to expand...



Wink wink


----------



## Carla_Danger

paulitician said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
Click to expand...




Good point.  Maybe it's time to clear the area and drone them.


----------



## Tilly

Old Rocks said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
Click to expand...

'Neighbours' in a very sparsely populated area, silly ass.


----------



## Dot Com

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> A jury of their peers convicted the Hammond's of setting those fires. They would not have done so without very convincing evidence.<snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quite true.  Harney county and therefore the state of Oregon did not file charges, therefore the Feds did and used a terrorist law from 1996, making them just not arsonists, but terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Or is a proven liar. Oregon and their peers gave them a token sentence. A crazy Obama appointee came in later and appealed the sentence and added to it. The appointee quit for mental health reasons after stalking, and taking a hit out on, another attorney.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they were convicted of a crime that carried a MANDATORY MINIMUM sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The judge ruled that the mandatory minimum in this case was unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, he didn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> based on a lack of intent and zero property damage. The judicial activism was on the part of the ninth. It's what they're notorious for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> judicial activism is following the Congressionally set mandatory minimum sentence?
> 
> amazing that the 9th circuit is an activist court in your mind for following the law but the judge that ignored the law is not.
> 
> just goes to show you're batshit insane
Click to expand...

that had to leave a mark 

As to the OP, the Hammonds knew they were in the wrong. Why not these out of towner, publicity-seeking, rabble rousers?


----------



## ogibillm

basquebromance said:


> Another lawless, unconstitutional overreach. The 2nd Amendment is an individual right. Mr. President, how about enforcing the laws we have?


What are you gibbering about?


----------



## Tilly

Old Rocks said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
Click to expand...

You said these guys should ba 'hung' when they haven't even harmed anyone yet.


----------



## Tilly

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
Click to expand...

'Outsiders'. Lol.


----------



## paulitician

Carla_Danger said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Maybe it's time to clear the area and drone them.
Click to expand...


Nah, give em a big ole hug and invite em to the White House. If they weren't Non-Communist White Folk, Hussein would already done that.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*when the Feds cut off the power and heat the "shrinkage factor" for the terror trolls will go off the charts ....even George Costanza said "Dude..'*


----------



## Carla_Danger

paulitician said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Maybe it's time to clear the area and drone them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, give em a big ole hug and invite em to the White House. If they weren't Non-Communist White Folk, Hussein would already done that.
Click to expand...



I know.  Those oppressed white people have always had it so tough.


----------



## Camp

Tilly said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 'Neighbours' in a very sparsely populated area, silly ass.
Click to expand...

I guess you have never lived in a sparsely populated area. If you do not like the word "neighbors" describing peers, let's just stick with "peers" who live in the same community. That is where juries come from unless their is a change of venue, which in this case there were not. The jury was made up of residents of that county. If two of them by some chance ended up meeting each other in a far off location such as NYC or London, they would have no problem saying "howdy neighbor" to each other.


----------



## bodecea

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Federal authorities are planning to cut off the power of the wildlife refuge in Oregon that has been taken over by militia, exposing the armed occupiers to sub-zero temperatures in an effort to flush them out.
> 
> Authorities plan to cut off power to militia at occupied Oregon refuge


Don't just plan it....do it.  Right away.   And water...and build a big fence around the building...and bill Daddy for it.


----------



## bodecea

Carla_Danger said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Maybe it's time to clear the area and drone them.
Click to expand...

Just hover a drone overhead and film them.....24/7....save the video.


----------



## Tilly

Camp said:


> y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area.
> This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:
> 
> www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
Click to expand...

You guys make me laugh. Everyone in the area has guns, but some folk hole themselves up in the middle of nowhere, presumably nowhere near schools, and kids can't go to school no more.  If these were Islamic terrorists, you'd be screeching 'COWARDS' at the top of your voices at anyone who suggested such a thing. Lol.


----------



## paulitician

Carla_Danger said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Maybe it's time to clear the area and drone them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, give em a big ole hug and invite em to the White House. If they weren't Non-Communist White Folk, Hussein would already done that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I know.  Those oppressed white people have always had it so tough.
Click to expand...


I know, y'all wingnuts love this 'Get Whitey' time. WOO HOO!! GO HUSSEIN!!!


----------



## Tilly

jon_berzerk said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area.
> This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:
> 
> www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> At least they are not burning down peoples businesses and stealing things.
> How about the OWS who shut down business so that the people could not go into the shops and they destroyed the parks that taxpayers had to pay for to be cleaned up.
> 
> Do you have a link about the schools being shut down?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the news reported that schools in the area had been shut down for the week
Click to expand...

Many on here were wetting themselves laughing when schools were shut down over suspected Islamist terrorist bomb threats not long ago.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Wry Catcher said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> per se it is not.  The fact is public lands can be leased for grazing, they cannot be used by anyone for anything without permission.  That includes burning them, fencing them, grazing on them or armed personnel moving in and pretending they have rights they do not have.
Click to expand...


_*U.S. Attorneys » District of Oregon » News
Department of Justice
U.S. Attorney’s Office
District of Oregon
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wednesday, October 7, 2015*_
*Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison*
_*EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands. 

A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.*_

See the entire link here:

Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice


----------



## paulitician

bodecea said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Maybe it's time to clear the area and drone them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just hover a drone overhead and film them.....24/7....save the video.
Click to expand...


Yup, kill em all. They Non-Communist White Folk. They gots to go. 

GO HUSSEIN! IT'S YER BIRFDAY!!


----------



## bodecea

Tilly said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area.
> This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:
> 
> www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You guys make me laugh. Everyone in the area has guns, but some folk hole themselves up in the middle of nowhere, presumably nowhere near schools, and kids can't go to school no more.  If these were Islamic terrorists, you'd be screeching 'COWARDS' at the top of your voices at anyone who suggested such a thing. Lol.
Click to expand...

It's a local call to close school.   Isn't that what these yahoos are wanting?  Local decision making?


----------



## Tilly

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bullshit. They have posted signs and made it clear they don't one the militia thugs in their town. The wildlife refuge is a major source of tourist income for the local businesses and that source is being halted as long as the refuge is closed.
Click to expand...

Do they all think with one mind?


----------



## bodecea

paulitician said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Maybe it's time to clear the area and drone them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just hover a drone overhead and film them.....24/7....save the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup, kill em all. They Non-Communist White Folk. They gots to go.
> 
> GO HUSSEIN! IT'S YER BIRFDAY!!
Click to expand...

Share with us how one "kills 'em all" with a Go-Pro on a drone.


----------



## peach174

ogibillm said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> 
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
> BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
> They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
> They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
> Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure most of those claims are bunk, but i know for sure that the hammonds troubles have nothing to do with anyone grabbing their land
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NO they are not bunk.
> I know quite a few ranchers here in S.Arizona who have had to fight the BLM thugs.
> My Husband used to work for a ranch in the early 1980's. BLM tried to take his ranch. He was a rich land owner and a Doctor, so he took them to court and won. Most don't have the money to do this.
> 
> Here is the history of how BLM got all of the other ranchers out around the Hammonds ranch.
> Almost the same story with all of the ranchers who lived around the Bundy's ranch.
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> 
> In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> This is just one story out of thousands of BLM and the Justice system of abuse.
> 
> For 40 years the Feds have abused their power in order to get more land for what they want and the people have had enough of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's assume everything you wrote is true (that's a huge assumption) what does any of that have to do with the arson committed by the hammonds?
Click to expand...



Trumped up charges.
Why do you think the Feds went after them after 5 years?
Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries. 
As to the poaching part they brought in dusty Hammond a mentally disturbed kid of 13 years old at the time.

 In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.

The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff’s office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.

*In 2011, 5 years after the police report was take*n, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges; they accused them of being “Terrorists” under the Federal Anti terrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death.


BLM really wants that land to add to their Wildlife Refuge and this is the last rancher who is holding out, just like the Bundys in Nevada.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

From an email -- 

Ammon Bundy told CNN this:

_I want to emphasis that the American people are wondering why they can't seem to get ahead or why everything is costing more and you are getting less, and that is because the federal government is taking and using the land and resources._

Do these wack-a-doodle doos ever think before they speak?

Poor put upon Ammon didn't always hate the gub't. In 2010, he got a $530K loan from the feds.


----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
> BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
> They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
> They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
> Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure most of those claims are bunk, but i know for sure that the hammonds troubles have nothing to do with anyone grabbing their land
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NO they are not bunk.
> I know quite a few ranchers here in S.Arizona who have had to fight the BLM thugs.
> My Husband used to work for a ranch in the early 1980's. BLM tried to take his ranch. He was a rich land owner and a Doctor, so he took them to court and won. Most don't have the money to do this.
> 
> Here is the history of how BLM got all of the other ranchers out around the Hammonds ranch.
> Almost the same story with all of the ranchers who lived around the Bundy's ranch.
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> 
> In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> This is just one story out of thousands of BLM and the Justice system of abuse.
> 
> For 40 years the Feds have abused their power in order to get more land for what they want and the people have had enough of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's assume everything you wrote is true (that's a huge assumption) what does any of that have to do with the arson committed by the hammonds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up charges.
> Why do you think the Feds went after them after 5 years?
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries.
> As to the poaching part they brought in dusty Hammond a mentally disturbed kid of 13 years old at the time.
> 
> In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.
> 
> The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff’s office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.
> 
> *In 2011, 5 years after the police report was take*n, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges; they accused them of being “Terrorists” under the Federal Anti terrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death.
> 
> 
> BLM really wants that land to add to their Wildlife Refuge and this is the last rancher who is holding out, just like the Bundys in Nevada.
Click to expand...

So...local jury was stupid?


----------



## paulitician

bodecea said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Maybe it's time to clear the area and drone them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just hover a drone overhead and film them.....24/7....save the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup, kill em all. They Non-Communist White Folk. They gots to go.
> 
> GO HUSSEIN! IT'S YER BIRFDAY!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Share with us how one "kills 'em all" with a Go-Pro on a drone.
Click to expand...


They Non-Communist White Folk. Hussein wants em dead. They aren't Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims. If they were, he'd give em a hug, hand em some freebies, and send em on their way.


----------



## ogibillm

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
> BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
> They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
> They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
> Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure most of those claims are bunk, but i know for sure that the hammonds troubles have nothing to do with anyone grabbing their land
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NO they are not bunk.
> I know quite a few ranchers here in S.Arizona who have had to fight the BLM thugs.
> My Husband used to work for a ranch in the early 1980's. BLM tried to take his ranch. He was a rich land owner and a Doctor, so he took them to court and won. Most don't have the money to do this.
> 
> Here is the history of how BLM got all of the other ranchers out around the Hammonds ranch.
> Almost the same story with all of the ranchers who lived around the Bundy's ranch.
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> 
> In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> This is just one story out of thousands of BLM and the Justice system of abuse.
> 
> For 40 years the Feds have abused their power in order to get more land for what they want and the people have had enough of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's assume everything you wrote is true (that's a huge assumption) what does any of that have to do with the arson committed by the hammonds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up charges.
> Why do you think the Feds went after them after 5 years?
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries.
> As to the poaching part they brought in dusty Hammond a mentally disturbed kid of 13 years old at the time.
> 
> In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.
> 
> The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff’s office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.
> 
> *In 2011, 5 years after the police report was take*n, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges; they accused them of being “Terrorists” under the Federal Anti terrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death.
> 
> 
> BLM really wants that land to add to their Wildlife Refuge and this is the last rancher who is holding out, just like the Bundys in Nevada.
Click to expand...

Did. They. Set. The. Fires?

The jury didn't think the charges were 'trumped up'


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
Click to expand...

Who did they steal the land from.   Name the original owners before the Feds owned it. Right here:  ________________


----------



## Tilly

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> 
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Supply a VALID link stating that the Townspeople support the outsiders coming-in and basically disrupting these peoples lives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> im sure they are all very happy that the school had to be shut down over safety concerns
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A bunch of hysterical libs overreacting.
> There is absolutely no reason they should have shut down the schools.
Click to expand...

They don't even react like this to homegrown Islamic terrorism.  And to those that take that seriously, they yell 'cowards', 'ilsamophobes' and so on.  It's hilarious.


----------



## ogibillm

bodecea said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
> BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
> They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
> They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
> Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.
> 
> 
> 
> pretty sure most of those claims are bunk, but i know for sure that the hammonds troubles have nothing to do with anyone grabbing their land
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NO they are not bunk.
> I know quite a few ranchers here in S.Arizona who have had to fight the BLM thugs.
> My Husband used to work for a ranch in the early 1980's. BLM tried to take his ranch. He was a rich land owner and a Doctor, so he took them to court and won. Most don't have the money to do this.
> 
> Here is the history of how BLM got all of the other ranchers out around the Hammonds ranch.
> Almost the same story with all of the ranchers who lived around the Bundy's ranch.
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> 
> In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> This is just one story out of thousands of BLM and the Justice system of abuse.
> 
> For 40 years the Feds have abused their power in order to get more land for what they want and the people have had enough of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's assume everything you wrote is true (that's a huge assumption) what does any of that have to do with the arson committed by the hammonds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up charges.
> Why do you think the Feds went after them after 5 years?
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries.
> As to the poaching part they brought in dusty Hammond a mentally disturbed kid of 13 years old at the time.
> 
> In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.
> 
> The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff’s office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.
> 
> *In 2011, 5 years after the police report was take*n, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges; they accused them of being “Terrorists” under the Federal Anti terrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death.
> 
> 
> BLM really wants that land to add to their Wildlife Refuge and this is the last rancher who is holding out, just like the Bundys in Nevada.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So...local jury was stupid?
Click to expand...

So far it's the jury was stupid and t court upholding the law was activist


----------



## Wry Catcher

peach174 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> nobody is stealing land. dumbass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they are.
> They are doing it in N. Texas right now just so that BLM can manage the red river.
> BLM Claims 90,000 Acres Does Not Belong To Texas, Attempts To Seize Ranch
> They did it to all the other ranchers in Nevada just so they could have more turtle habitat.
> They are now doing it to the Hammords hoping that the old man could die in prison in 4 years.
> Western Ranchers have had enough of the BLM thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pretty sure most of those claims are bunk, but i know for sure that the hammonds troubles have nothing to do with anyone grabbing their land
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> NO they are not bunk.
> I know quite a few ranchers here in S.Arizona who have had to fight the BLM thugs.
> My Husband used to work for a ranch in the early 1980's. BLM tried to take his ranch. He was a rich land owner and a Doctor, so he took them to court and won. Most don't have the money to do this.
> 
> Here is the history of how BLM got all of the other ranchers out around the Hammonds ranch.
> Almost the same story with all of the ranchers who lived around the Bundy's ranch.
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> 
> In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> This is just one story out of thousands of BLM and the Justice system of abuse.
> 
> For 40 years the Feds have abused their power in order to get more land for what they want and the people have had enough of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let's assume everything you wrote is true (that's a huge assumption) what does any of that have to do with the arson committed by the hammonds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Trumped up charges.
> Why do you think the Feds went after them after 5 years?
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
> In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries.
> As to the poaching part they brought in dusty Hammond a mentally disturbed kid of 13 years old at the time.
> 
> In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.
> 
> The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff’s office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.
> 
> *In 2011, 5 years after the police report was take*n, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges; they accused them of being “Terrorists” under the Federal Anti terrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death.
> 
> 
> BLM really wants that land to add to their Wildlife Refuge and this is the last rancher who is holding out, just like the Bundys in Nevada.
Click to expand...


The official story:

Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or is a proven liar. Oregon and their peers gave them a token sentence. A crazy Obama appointee came in later and appealed the sentence and added to it. The appointee quit for mental health reasons after stalking, and taking a hit out on, another attorney.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also not true.  Do a few hours at the least of research like I did before posting here last night and you will find the same things I did.  Of course you have to muddle through some pretty extreme claims from both sides, but there is some truth to be had there.
> 
> They were arrested by Harney county and then released.  the prosecutor never filed charges.  Years later the feds did, and yes, it was after Obama was in office as a matter of fact . . . . hmmm. . .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What the hell are you talking about? I do know the case background...and your synopsis is not accurate. The Case for Civil Disobedience in Oregon, by David French, National Review
Click to expand...

Your article conveniently leaves out testimony by friends and even family members of the convicted arsonist that the fires were started to cover up illegal hunting, i.e.,  poaching, under oath in a federal court trial. Instead, the article goes into a claim about "land management through the use of fires. They had no permission not did they apply for a permit or notify authorities about such a fire. The jury found their defense story unbelievable because any and every rancher in that area would know that such a permit was needed. Plus the fact that their own family and friends testified as to the real reason for them starting the fire.


----------



## mamooth

Less than a mile away from me in Indianapolis, we had our own pack of similar kooks. An independent Baptist church called the Indiana Baptist Temple had been openly refusing to pay their payroll taxes for 16 years. By 2000, it had gone on long enough that the government ordered the property seized to pay the tax bill.

The IBT said they'd resist. They holed up in the building. And then a pack of outside agitators also showed up, and started their propaganda offensive about how awful the gubmint was.

And in the neighborhood? Ever single person, no matter what their political beliefs, hated the IBT assclowns for being moochers and freeloaders, and hated their carpetbagger pals for occupying part of a neighborhood that wasn't their own. Everyone wanted them gone. It's similar to how the locals must feel about the Bundy parasitical assmunches.

Two months later, after most of 'em had gotten bored and left, the sheriff rolled in by surprise at 6AM, rousted 'em out, and took control of the building. Everyone applauded. The property is a school now, Christel House Academy.


----------



## Carla_Danger

paulitician said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.  Maybe it's time to clear the area and drone them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just hover a drone overhead and film them.....24/7....save the video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup, kill em all. They Non-Communist White Folk. They gots to go.
> 
> GO HUSSEIN! IT'S YER BIRFDAY!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Share with us how one "kills 'em all" with a Go-Pro on a drone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They Non-Communist White Folk. Hussein wants em dead. They aren't Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims. If they were, he'd give em a hug, hand em some freebies, and send em on their way.
Click to expand...




Go put your tinfoil hat on!


----------



## bullwinkle

Geaux4it said:


> *The Shot Heard Round the Word: *
> *The Battles of Lexington and Concord*
> 
> The clash began on April 19, 1775 when more about 700 British soldiers were given what they thought were secret orders to destroy colonial military supplies in Concord, Massachusetts. Fortunately, thanks to a rather elaborate colonial intelligence network, led by the Sons of Liberty, the Patriots were aware that their supplies were at risk, and were able to move them to different locations long before the British began to move. Also, thanks to the daring rides of a few brave men, the colonial militia knew that an engagement with the British Army was imminent.
> 
> The Shot Heard Round the World[/QUOT





koshergrl said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Megan Kelly on Fox is interviewing Aman Bundy on air.....and she is calling him a lawless criminal and taking him to task.
> 
> So....yeah....we are calling them criminals. Because they are exactly that.
> 
> She just called him out on the groups indication of being willing to be violent.
> 
> So...yeah...CC has no point once again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Megan  Kelly?  Was she bleeding again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He dropped the part where Bundy said he does not want violence, but would fight back if they fired first.
> These are American Citizens who want the Feds to control themselves under the Constitution and stop abusing the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
Click to expand...

Peach, that's a very old trick.  He's going to keep pushing until someone in authority DOES fire, then claim 'they' shot first.  IOW create a situation, then cry foul when the inevitable happens.  The locals are wise to stay away and let this bunch of thugs make fools of themselves.  As for the land...the Paiutes want it back too.  And I missed the part in the Constitution where the Fed holding and leasing land is abuse.  Can you tell me where to find it?  I have a copy so I can refer to it if only I know where to look.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Using arson to cover up their poaching ... How is this not domestic terrorism?

...Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” ...


----------



## Tilly

paulitician said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
Click to expand...

They'd just be 'misunderstood' and forced into this position because of other people's 'phobias' and vaguely unkind words.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

mamooth said:


> Less than a mile away from me in Indianapolis, we had our own pack of similar kooks. An independent Baptist church called the Indiana Baptist Temple had been openly refusing to pay their payroll taxes for 16 years. By 2000, it had gone on long enough that the government ordered the property seized to pay the tax bill.
> 
> The IBT said they'd resist. They holed up in the building. And then a pack of outside agitators also showed up, and started their propaganda offensive about how awful the gubmint was.
> 
> And in the neighborhood? Ever single person, no matter what their political beliefs, hated the IBT assclowns for being moochers and freeloaders, and hated their carpetbagger pals for occupying part of a neighborhood that wasn't their own. Everyone wanted them gone. It's similar to how the locals must feel about the Bundy parasitical assmunches.
> 
> Two months later, after most of 'em had gotten bored and left, the sheriff rolled in by surprise at 6AM, rousted 'em out, and took control of the building. Everyone applauded. The property is a school now, Christel House Academy.




Very similar in that they were already getting tax subsidies but wanted it free - just like the Oregon welfare ranchers. 

The nutters in Oregon are willing to kill.


----------



## peach174

bullwinkle said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Shot Heard Round the Word: *
> *The Battles of Lexington and Concord*
> 
> The clash began on April 19, 1775 when more about 700 British soldiers were given what they thought were secret orders to destroy colonial military supplies in Concord, Massachusetts. Fortunately, thanks to a rather elaborate colonial intelligence network, led by the Sons of Liberty, the Patriots were aware that their supplies were at risk, and were able to move them to different locations long before the British began to move. Also, thanks to the daring rides of a few brave men, the colonial militia knew that an engagement with the British Army was imminent.
> 
> The Shot Heard Round the World[/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Megan Kelly on Fox is interviewing Aman Bundy on air.....and she is calling him a lawless criminal and taking him to task.
> 
> So....yeah....we are calling them criminals. Because they are exactly that.
> 
> She just called him out on the groups indication of being willing to be violent.
> 
> So...yeah...CC has no point once again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Megan  Kelly?  Was she bleeding again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He dropped the part where Bundy said he does not want violence, but would fight back if they fired first.
> These are American Citizens who want the Feds to control themselves under the Constitution and stop abusing the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peach, that's a very old trick.  He's going to keep pushing until someone in authority DOES fire, then claim 'they' shot first.  IOW create a situation, then cry foul when the inevitable happens.  The locals are wise to stay away and let this bunch of thugs make fools of themselves.  As for the land...the Paiutes want it back too.  And I missed the part in the Constitution where the Fed holding and leasing land is abuse.  Can you tell me where to find it?  I have a copy so I can refer to it if only I know where to look.
Click to expand...



Feds holding and leasing BLM land is not abuse, but taking land that belongs to ranchers that holds deeds is.


----------



## Dot Com

no one wants them there except for the media


----------



## peach174

Luddly Neddite said:


> Using arson to cover up their poaching ... How is this not domestic terrorism?
> 
> ...Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” ...




Told by a 13 year old kid who is mentally disturbed, who should have never testified in the 1st place.


----------



## bodecea

Luddly Neddite said:


> Using arson to cover up their poaching ... How is this not domestic terrorism?
> 
> ...Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” ...


Around here...it's even worse if someone uses Arson to cover up a crime.....and the arsonist pays for all the damage and the firefighting cost.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

ClosedCaption said:


> To be fair that kid is tall for his age and since height is a direct correlation to criminality I can see why thats brought up often
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww CC, they are just playing Rambo!  wink wink


Should have known you'd twist this into a whiney rant about race.
Pull up your britches and be a big boi


----------



## ClosedCaption

Grampa Murked U said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair that kid is tall for his age and since height is a direct correlation to criminality I can see why thats brought up often
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww CC, they are just playing Rambo!  wink wink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should have known you'd twist this into a whiney rant about race.
> Pull up your britches and be a big boi
Click to expand...



Yet, here you are


----------



## Dot Com

ClosedCaption said:


> bucs90 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Megan Kelly on Fox is interviewing Aman Bundy on air.....and she is calling him a lawless criminal and taking him to task.
> 
> So....yeah....we are calling them criminals. Because they are exactly that.
> 
> She just called him out on the groups indication of being willing to be violent.
> 
> So...yeah...CC has no point once again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Megan  Kelly?  Was she bleeding again?
Click to expand...

no doubt


----------



## Tilly

bodecea said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area.
> This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:
> 
> www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You guys make me laugh. Everyone in the area has guns, but some folk hole themselves up in the middle of nowhere, presumably nowhere near schools, and kids can't go to school no more.  If these were Islamic terrorists, you'd be screeching 'COWARDS' at the top of your voices at anyone who suggested such a thing. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a local call to close school.   Isn't that what these yahoos are wanting?  Local decision making?
Click to expand...

They are holed up in the middle of nowhere with guns, there are no schools nearby.


----------



## paulitician

Tilly said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just claim they're Illegals. Those folks can do anything they want these days. Hussein has given em an unlimited free pass. Just claim you're a poor abused Illegal, then get your freebies and a White House invite.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh shut up, you fucking idiot. This is about an illegal armed occupation of Federal lands, not President Obama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If they were Illegals, African Americans, or Muslims, Hussein would have already intervened and given em all a big ole hug. But they white, so he ain't giva a shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They'd just be 'misunderstood' and forced into this position because of other people's 'phobias' and vaguely unkind words.
Click to expand...


Yeah, if they could only claim to be poor abused Illegals. Man, those folks really can do whatever they want these days. Hussein's given them complete free reign immunity. They get the special perks while American Citizens get the shaft. It's a bizarre unjust system Hussein has set up. 

But hey, he gets his revenge on Whitey and locks up a whole lotta future votes for his Party. It's a real Win-Win for him. You can bet if these folks were Illegals or African Americans, he would have already been down there promising them the world. But they Whitey, so they on they own. It is what it is.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Tilly said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area.
> This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:
> 
> www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You guys make me laugh. Everyone in the area has guns, but some folk hole themselves up in the middle of nowhere, presumably nowhere near schools, and kids can't go to school no more.  If these were Islamic terrorists, you'd be screeching 'COWARDS' at the top of your voices at anyone who suggested such a thing. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a local call to close school.   Isn't that what these yahoos are wanting?  Local decision making?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are holed up in the middle of nowhere with guns, there are no schools nearby.
Click to expand...




*"You know you’re a badass Tea Party patriot motherfucker when your militia takes over an unprotected bird sanctuary" -- Jim Wright, Stonekettle Station.*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Using arson to cover up their poaching ... How is this not domestic terrorism?
> 
> ...Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Told by a 13 year old kid who is mentally disturbed, who should have never testified in the 1st place.
Click to expand...

Attack the witness now.  What a surprise.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Cliven Bundy's son is teaching "the Negro" how to act properly so they too can benefit from white parenting and culture.........*


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Brian Levin, an attorney and criminologist, said the overall risk posed by anti-government groups is growing. Levin, who directs the nonpartisan Center for the Study of Hate & Extremism at California State University, said it was a "material change" that the militants in Oregon have moved from "mere rhetoric to action, and from action to forceful action."

"This is a significant milestone because we’re seeing now a coalescence of a grassroots organization, which is responding to events and trying to influence them through show of force," Levin said. "We’re seeing aggressive and criminal conduct to make this point." 

The groups tend to lack central direction, sophisticated organization and recruiting networks. Some aren't groups at all, but loners or partnerships. That can make them less of an overall threat than Salafi jihadist groups like ISIS and al-Shabaab, Levin said. 

Patriot groups "don’t have the organization or hierarchical power that say, ISIS does," Levin said. "Are they terrorists? As a technical matter, yes. But on the same hand, they’re not ISIS, and nor should our response to them" be the same. 

Much like in the 2014 standoff at the Bundy ranch, federal officials in Oregon have thus far declined to take the bait by challenging the militants' "kill and be killed" stance.

Levin, who described himself as third-generation law enforcement, said the "less is more" approach to handling the militants will avoid opportunity for martyrdom or further notoriety. 

"When things go south, the first question is always, 'Why didn’t you wait?'" Levin said. "A court order is still valid, and can be executed at a time and place of the government’s convenience. And no one gets killed. And we haven’t given these extremists fodder for their own recruitment efforts." 

*While a threat exists as long as the militants remain armed, Levin noted federal officials can afford to give the occupants room, since they effectively "put themselves in their own jail" by holing up in a remote and empty building with few snacks.

"Do you want to eat frozen Spam over a half-lit fire in a desolate tundra? Knockyourself out," Levin said. "It’s not like they occupied a resort in Maui.” *


----------



## Camp

Tilly said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area.
> This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:
> 
> www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You guys make me laugh. Everyone in the area has guns, but some folk hole themselves up in the middle of nowhere, presumably nowhere near schools, and kids can't go to school no more.  If these were Islamic terrorists, you'd be screeching 'COWARDS' at the top of your voices at anyone who suggested such a thing. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a local call to close school.   Isn't that what these yahoos are wanting?  Local decision making?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are holed up in the middle of nowhere with guns, there are no schools nearby.
Click to expand...

The terrorist thugs have put out a call for armed supporters to come to their assistance and location. That means they have invited unknown persons, unknown to themselves or anyone else, to come into the community. The community has every right to take steps that will protect their children from being near an accidental or purposeful exchange of gunfire. It is their decision to make. One can only wonder what your reaction would be if a group of criminals invited random heavily armed men to flood into your area and be ready to fight with law enforcement officers and agencies. Would you want to send your kids to school while those random armed men were driving through your town and past your child's school?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

peach174 said:


> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> 
> *The Shot Heard Round the Word: *
> *The Battles of Lexington and Concord*
> 
> The clash began on April 19, 1775 when more about 700 British soldiers were given what they thought were secret orders to destroy colonial military supplies in Concord, Massachusetts. Fortunately, thanks to a rather elaborate colonial intelligence network, led by the Sons of Liberty, the Patriots were aware that their supplies were at risk, and were able to move them to different locations long before the British began to move. Also, thanks to the daring rides of a few brave men, the colonial militia knew that an engagement with the British Army was imminent.
> 
> The Shot Heard Round the World[/QUOT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Megan  Kelly?  Was she bleeding again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> He dropped the part where Bundy said he does not want violence, but would fight back if they fired first.
> These are American Citizens who want the Feds to control themselves under the Constitution and stop abusing the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Peach, that's a very old trick.  He's going to keep pushing until someone in authority DOES fire, then claim 'they' shot first.  IOW create a situation, then cry foul when the inevitable happens.  The locals are wise to stay away and let this bunch of thugs make fools of themselves.  As for the land...the Paiutes want it back too.  And I missed the part in the Constitution where the Fed holding and leasing land is abuse.  Can you tell me where to find it?  I have a copy so I can refer to it if only I know where to look.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Feds holding and leasing BLM land is not abuse, but taking land that belongs to ranchers that holds deeds is.
Click to expand...



peach174

EXACTLY what land do they own that the gubt has taken from them?

Please be precise. 

I can't stay but I will check back for your answer because that one thing would change this completely.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Oregon Considers Wall to Keep Out Angry White Men - The New Yorker
 




Credit Photograph by Les Zaitz/The Oregonian via AP
The Borowitz Report)—A majority of Oregonians favor building a twenty-foot wall along the border of their state to prevent angry white men from getting in, a poll released on Monday shows.


----------



## Dot Com

Fight them there so we don't have to fight them here. I hope a whole bunch of like-minded deadbeats show up to support their "free stuff" cause


----------



## bodecea

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did they steal the land from.   Name the original owners before the Feds owned it. Right here:  ________________
Click to expand...

Allie....when can we be expecting an answer as to who owned that land before the Feds?


----------



## Tilly

Old Rocks said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip> However, there aren't many in the way of black survivalists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all true.  But the race card does not at all belong here, TyroneSlothrop .
> 
> Maybe you forgot about John Brown, a white man:
> 
> John Brown (abolitionist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> who with his armed folks took over an armory to try to arm Africans to help overthrow the slavery system.
> 
> John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And was quite properly hung for his efforts. Same should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
Click to expand...

Yous callin for hangings when ain't no one done harm to no one.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

bodecea said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did they steal the land from.   Name the original owners before the Feds owned it. Right here:  ________________
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allie....when can we be expecting an answer as to who owned that land before the Feds?
Click to expand...



As well as what peach174 said -

Feds holding and leasing BLM land is not abuse, but taking land that belongs to ranchers that holds deeds is.

This is a claim I have never heard before but I'm sure that peach174 will be along any minute now with a link. 

Just like koshergrl will post links to her claim that this is not about getting use of land for free.

Right?


----------



## Tilly

Old Rocks said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
Click to expand...

A jury of ones peers is fine, neighbours, which is what was posted, is not fine, silly ass.


----------



## bravoactual

.


----------



## koshergrl

Luddly Neddite said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than a mile away from me in Indianapolis, we had our own pack of similar kooks. An independent Baptist church called the Indiana Baptist Temple had been openly refusing to pay their payroll taxes for 16 years. By 2000, it had gone on long enough that the government ordered the property seized to pay the tax bill.
> 
> The IBT said they'd resist. They holed up in the building. And then a pack of outside agitators also showed up, and started their propaganda offensive about how awful the gubmint was.
> 
> And in the neighborhood? Ever single person, no matter what their political beliefs, hated the IBT assclowns for being moochers and freeloaders, and hated their carpetbagger pals for occupying part of a neighborhood that wasn't their own. Everyone wanted them gone. It's similar to how the locals must feel about the Bundy parasitical assmunches.
> 
> Two months later, after most of 'em had gotten bored and left, the sheriff rolled in by surprise at 6AM, rousted 'em out, and took control of the building. Everyone applauded. The property is a school now, Christel House Academy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very similar in that they were already getting tax subsidies but wanted it free - just like the Oregon welfare ranchers.
> 
> The nutters in Oregon are willing to kill.
Click to expand...

You need to get with the lefty program...The current lie they're telling to justify killing the militia is that none of them are from Oregon.


----------



## koshergrl

Luddly Neddite said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did they steal the land from.   Name the original owners before the Feds owned it. Right here:  ________________
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allie....when can we be expecting an answer as to who owned that land before the Feds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As well as what peach174 said -
> 
> Feds holding and leasing BLM land is not abuse, but taking land that belongs to ranchers that holds deeds is.
> 
> This is a claim I have never heard before but I'm sure that peach174 will be along any minute now with a link.
> 
> Just like koshergrl will post links to her claim that this is not about getting use of land for free.
> 
> Right?
Click to expand...

How ridiculous. Everybody else knows what the issue is....if you are too stupid to read the material please do everybody a favor and quit wasting bandwidth.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

koshergrl said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did they steal the land from.   Name the original owners before the Feds owned it. Right here:  ________________
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allie....when can we be expecting an answer as to who owned that land before the Feds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As well as what peach174 said -
> 
> Feds holding and leasing BLM land is not abuse, but taking land that belongs to ranchers that holds deeds is.
> 
> This is a claim I have never heard before but I'm sure that peach174 will be along any minute now with a link.
> 
> Just like koshergrl will post links to her claim that this is not about getting use of land for free.
> 
> Right?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How ridiculous. Everybody else knows what the issue is....if you are too stupid to read the material please do everybody a favor and quit wasting bandwidth.
Click to expand...



IOW, you're wrong and you know it.

Gotta go but if you can come up with some proof of your claim _"They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control."_ (whatever THAT means!), by all means post it. 

Prove that the land was stolen from the welfare ranchers.

Same to peach174


----------



## Tilly

Dot Com said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you want them hanged?
> 
> 
> 
> If someone get killed out of this insanity, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is Oregon, not Nevada. If the Feds were to back down, the locals will not. And things might get rather messy. These are outsiders, causing big trouble, and threatening people with guns. It was time for them to leave before they got there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't threatened anybody lol and the people of burns despise the Fed's, with good cause. They support these people and are praying for them. Or is a progressive city dwelling douche who, like most progressives, wants the government to steal land and keep the locals away from it so people like him can come and occasionally camp or ride bikes through. He's a dumbass that has no authority to speak for the people of Harney county. He's just a milquetoast dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Supply a VALID link stating that the Townspeople support the outsiders coming-in and basically disrupting these peoples lives.
Click to expand...

....
There are some in Harney County who agree with the Bundy’s message that federal lands should be under local control. Many also said that the Hammonds’ five-year prison sentence is harsh.

Inspired by presentations from Ammon Bundy, some citizens formed the Harney County Committee of Safety, and plan to participate in the rally. “We aren’t associated with the Bundy crew but we agree with a lot of things that they’re doing,” said committee member and rancher Melodi Molp. “I appreciate the Bundy’s coming and enlightening us. But they are way more aggressive than what we want to do.” ....

Who Wants A Burns, Oregon Standoff? Not The Sheriff, The Ranchers, Or Even Cliven Bundy


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

ClosedCaption said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair that kid is tall for his age and since height is a direct correlation to criminality I can see why thats brought up often
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww CC, they are just playing Rambo!  wink wink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should have known you'd twist this into a whiney rant about race.
> Pull up your britches and be a big boi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, here you are
Click to expand...

Blacks burn down & loot entire blocks in a neighborhood.....they just needed space to vent.

Whites take over AN EMPTY BUILDING IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE....Stop the world, I'm getting off.


Do, tell us more hackboi


----------



## ClosedCaption

Grampa Murked U said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair that kid is tall for his age and since height is a direct correlation to criminality I can see why thats brought up often
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww CC, they are just playing Rambo!  wink wink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should have known you'd twist this into a whiney rant about race.
> Pull up your britches and be a big boi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, here you are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blacks burn down & loot entire blocks in a neighborhood.....they just needed space to vent.
> 
> Whites take over AN EMPTY BUILDING IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE....Stop the world, I'm getting off.
> 
> 
> Do, tell us more hackboi
Click to expand...


And whites fuck their dogs and molest children.  Now, since we have that out the way, care to comment on the topic or just fling insults some more?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

ClosedCaption said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair that kid is tall for his age and since height is a direct correlation to criminality I can see why thats brought up often
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww CC, they are just playing Rambo!  wink wink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should have known you'd twist this into a whiney rant about race.
> Pull up your britches and be a big boi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, here you are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blacks burn down & loot entire blocks in a neighborhood.....they just needed space to vent.
> 
> Whites take over AN EMPTY BUILDING IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE....Stop the world, I'm getting off.
> 
> 
> Do, tell us more hackboi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And whites fuck their dogs and molest children.  Now, since we have that out the way, care to comment on the topic or just fling insults some more?
Click to expand...

Your childish reaction to the FACTS I laid out pretty much cover it all.


----------



## Carla_Danger




----------



## Tilly

Camp said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same thing was said when they were in Nevada, but no one got hurt and the Feds backed down.
> 
> 
> 
> The feds wisely decided bloodshed was not needed to secure a patch of vacant desert grassland. They put ego and emotion aside and decided to show patience. That, as can be seen now, was a mistake. The culprits have graduated from grazing land that they had some level of claim to, to taking over a multi-million dollar property that is currently used by citizens and generates the local economy for the local residents of that county. They have absolutely no viable valid claim to that property. Not only are visitors to this taxpayer owned attraction being denied access to their property, the local schools have closed due the threat of armed militia in the area and the plea from the trespasser thugs for more to come to the area.
> This is what they are attempting to steal or have temporarily stolen from the taxpayers:
> 
> www.fws.gov/refuge/Malheur/about.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You guys make me laugh. Everyone in the area has guns, but some folk hole themselves up in the middle of nowhere, presumably nowhere near schools, and kids can't go to school no more.  If these were Islamic terrorists, you'd be screeching 'COWARDS' at the top of your voices at anyone who suggested such a thing. Lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's a local call to close school.   Isn't that what these yahoos are wanting?  Local decision making?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are holed up in the middle of nowhere with guns, there are no schools nearby.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The terrorist thugs have put out a call for armed supporters to come to their assistance and location. That means they have invited unknown persons, unknown to themselves or anyone else, to come into the community. The community has every right to take steps that will protect their children from being near an accidental or purposeful exchange of gunfire. It is their decision to make. One can only wonder what your reaction would be if a group of criminals invited random heavily armed men to flood into your area and be ready to fight with law enforcement officers and agencies. Would you want to send your kids to school while those random armed men were driving through your town and past your child's school?
Click to expand...

Ah, I didn't realise that. Thank you.


----------



## ClosedCaption

Grampa Murked U said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair that kid is tall for his age and since height is a direct correlation to criminality I can see why thats brought up often
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww CC, they are just playing Rambo!  wink wink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should have known you'd twist this into a whiney rant about race.
> Pull up your britches and be a big boi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, here you are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blacks burn down & loot entire blocks in a neighborhood.....they just needed space to vent.
> 
> Whites take over AN EMPTY BUILDING IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE....Stop the world, I'm getting off.
> 
> 
> Do, tell us more hackboi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And whites fuck their dogs and molest children.  Now, since we have that out the way, care to comment on the topic or just fling insults some more?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your childish reaction to the FACTS I laid out pretty much cover it all.
Click to expand...



YOUR reaction to the FACTS I laid out shows you only want to present negative stereotypes about one group and act like a pussy when it comes back in your face.  Now I dont want to discuss how white boys like fingers and fireworks shoved in their asses and we can discuss the topic at hand.  How about it shit finger?


----------



## Dot Com

Tilly said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
> 
> 
> 
> A jury of ones peers is fine, neighbours, which is what was posted, is not fine, silly ass.
Click to expand...

"peers" like this?:


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

What is this obsession liberals have with piss & shit?

Seek counseling


----------



## Dot Com

Tilly said:


> Ah, I didn't realise that. Thank you.


Watch yerself n00b!!!


----------



## ClosedCaption

Grampa Murked U said:


> What is this obsession liberals have with piss & shit?
> 
> Seek counseling



You are the one who likes shit shoved in your ass.  You're white, right?

Didnt you do time also?  My characterization is right up your....alley, shall we say.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

ClosedCaption said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is this obsession liberals have with piss & shit?
> 
> Seek counseling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who likes shit shoved in your ass.  You're white, right?
> 
> Didnt you do time also?  My characterization is right up your....alley, shall we say.
Click to expand...

I was in prison. A prison with a 70% black population. Lots of faggots. 70% black


----------



## ClosedCaption

Grampa Murked U said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is this obsession liberals have with piss & shit?
> 
> Seek counseling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who likes shit shoved in your ass.  You're white, right?
> 
> Didnt you do time also?  My characterization is right up your....alley, shall we say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was in prison. A prison with a 70% black population. Lots of faggots. 70% black
Click to expand...


You plus how many others?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

ClosedCaption said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is this obsession liberals have with piss & shit?
> 
> Seek counseling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who likes shit shoved in your ass.  You're white, right?
> 
> Didnt you do time also?  My characterization is right up your....alley, shall we say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was in prison. A prison with a 70% black population. Lots of faggots. 70% black
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You plus how many others?
Click to expand...

Almost ALL the blacks were faggots. Seemed typical, no boundaries for the thugs


----------



## ClosedCaption

Grampa Murked U said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is this obsession liberals have with piss & shit?
> 
> Seek counseling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one who likes shit shoved in your ass.  You're white, right?
> 
> Didnt you do time also?  My characterization is right up your....alley, shall we say.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was in prison. A prison with a 70% black population. Lots of faggots. 70% black
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You plus how many others?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Almost ALL the blacks were faggots. Seemed typical, no boundaries for the thugs
Click to expand...


Suuuure and I'm supposed to believe a criminal huh?


----------



## Skylar

bullwinkle said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
Click to expand...


Not only did I see him, I posted his whole youtube video including distrubing calls by the militia man for Dwight Hammond to 'die here with us'.


----------



## BlueGin

bullwinkle said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
Click to expand...

Then he stated it would never get that far. Please do go overboard some more.


----------



## ClosedCaption

BlueGin said:


> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
Click to expand...


So he said he would die there for no reason?


----------



## BlueGin

ClosedCaption said:


> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed white guys take over federal building demanding free stuff!  Blames "The Man" for their lot in life.
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
Click to expand...

He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.

Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".


----------



## AvgGuyIA

Old Rocks said:


> AvgGuyIA said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CremeBrulee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> No. They were tried, convicted, jailed, and served a reduced sentence that an appeals court overturned. With the legally required sentence imposed instead.
> 
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> With credit for time served.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OTHERS who did the same thing, were simply FINED for the act, the original judge understood that this was not TERRORISM but a simple accident, as the Hammonds had permission from the gov't to burn the land, and it simply got out of control and burned approx. 20 acres of Fed. land, with NO INJURIES or PROPERTY DAMAGE to anything!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Burning the grass will make it come back stronger and greener than ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Burning firefighters makes them very dead. And that well could have happened with the fire the Hammond's set. Mister, you are an idiot.
Click to expand...

And you also believe the ExXon Valdez permanently destroyed  that harbor in Alaska and the Gulf oil spill destroyed shrimp fishing.    You're the idiot.


----------



## Skylar

BlueGin said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
Click to expand...


Perhaps we're citing a different man. The youtube video I cited was of a militia man calling on Dwight Hammond, saying 'Do you want to die in prison, labeled a terrorist? Or do you want to die here with us, a free man? I want to die a free man."

That hardly sounds like a call for 'peaceful negotiations'.


----------



## bullwinkle

BlueGin said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
Click to expand...

Not the guy I saw.   He was in his car, dressed in what looked like a Carhart jacket and with a buzz cut.  The clip I saw did not go beyond his willingness to lose his life.  Perhaps you are thinking of someone else interviewed.  Or maybe he was waffling after his first blurb and I missed the coverup.


----------



## Old Rocks

*Status of Restoration - Exxon Valdez Oil Spill Trustee Council*

*Lingering Oil
Updated 2015*
The most recent studies indicate that key injured resources are no longer being affected by the lingering oil that remains in the substrate of certain beaches. Passive samplers deployed for 10 days in summer 2015 in the intertidal zone of one of the most contaminated beaches detected no _Exxon Valdez_ oil leaching into the water, confirming that the oil remains sequestered in the subsurface and is not biologically available, despite remaining in a largely un-weathered state.



Measures of population status of species such as harlequin ducks and sea otters are now similar between oiled and unoiled sites, indicating recovery from long-term effects of the spill, including consequences of exposure to lingering oil (Esler et al. 2015b).

However, while the natural resource damage from lingering oil is largely abating, twenty-five years of research on the _Exxon Valdez_ Oil Spill has demonstrated the surprising persistence of the toxic components of _Exxon Valdez_ oil in the environment. This research illuminates the long-term effects of the Spill and the chronic damage that took nearly a quarter of a century to abate.

*PERSISTENCE OF THE LINGERING OIL*
Oil lingering from the 1989 Spill has been identified in discontinuous patches buried in sediments in the intertidal zone of some beaches in western Prince William Sound (PWS), where it was deposited soon after it washed ashore from the Spill. The patches are not visible on the beach surface, as they are buried at average depths between 12 to 18 cm (Fig. 1) and typically under the "armour" of bouldered beaches.

*Need it be repeated, you are a fucking idiot, Av.*


----------



## Camp

Tilly said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of ones peers is fine, neighbours, which is what was posted, is not fine, silly ass.
Click to expand...

You arguing about the meaning of "neighbor" all day is what is silly.


----------



## Tilly

Dot Com said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
> 
> 
> 
> A jury of ones peers is fine, neighbours, which is what was posted, is not fine, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "peers" like this?:
Click to expand...

Peers is peers.


----------



## Tilly

Dot Com said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I didn't realise that. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch yerself n00b!!!
Click to expand...

Watch yerself, dancing Pug


----------



## Tilly

Camp said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of ones peers is fine, neighbours, which is what was posted, is not fine, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You arguing about the meaning of "neighbor" all day is what is silly.
Click to expand...

No it isn't.  The idea of a jury is that they are unencumbered by personal knowledge, experiences, grievances, or biases against the defendant. 'Neighbours' don't normally fall into that category.  Clearly its not a word you should have used, so get over it already.


----------



## Camp

Tilly said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of ones peers is fine, neighbours, which is what was posted, is not fine, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You arguing about the meaning of "neighbor" all day is what is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it isn't.  The idea of a jury is that they are unencumbered by personal knowledge, experiences, grievances, or biases against the defendant. 'Neighbours' don't normally fall into that category.  Clearly its not a word you should have used, so get over it already.
Click to expand...

You are confusing the objective term "next door neighbor" with the multiple meaning and subjective word "neighbor". The word neighbor can be used subjectively in a way that relies on the context of its use. The word is derived from the root "NEAR" and near is a word that has no definite distance or time. That is what makes it subjective and open to interpretation of the person using it. The US borders Canada, hence a person living in Texas or Florida can declare themselves a neighbor of Canada. A person living in a border state might describe them self as a "next door neighbor". I happen to consider all the people in a sparsely populated county in the middle of a sparsely populated region in the middle of nowhere to all be neighbors in that county. It being a subjective definition, I am perfectly correct with my language interpretation and word definition and used it in the manner I used.


----------



## Old Rocks

And that is how the people in that area view it. All are neighbors, for there is little help in an emergency other than the other people in that sparsely populated area, other than the people there.


----------



## jillian

Tilly said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of ones peers is fine, neighbours, which is what was posted, is not fine, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You arguing about the meaning of "neighbor" all day is what is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it isn't.  The idea of a jury is that they are unencumbered by personal knowledge, experiences, grievances, or biases against the defendant. 'Neighbours' don't normally fall into that category.  Clearly its not a word you should have used, so get over it already.
Click to expand...


historically, juries were from the same community as the accused or the litigant. they did know the person. in modern times, the juries are not supposed to know anything about the case before them.

so i'm not quite certain what you're talking about


----------



## jillian

Dot Com said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I didn't realise that. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch yerself n00b!!!
Click to expand...


seems more sock-ish than noob. no?


----------



## Mad Scientist

ITT: Too many posters don't know what grazing rights are.


----------



## BlueGin

bullwinkle said:


> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not the guy I saw.   He was in his car, dressed in what looked like a Carhart jacket and with a buzz cut.  The clip I saw did not go beyond his willingness to lose his life.  Perhaps you are thinking of someone else interviewed.  Or maybe he was waffling after his first blurb and I missed the coverup.
Click to expand...

Nope this guy was being interviewed by Megyn Kelly.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

BlueGin said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the "free stuff" they're demanding?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
Click to expand...


They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking? 

Why did they bring guns then? 

They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed. 

That's the opposite of "peaceful".


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Luddly Neddite said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
> 
> 
> 
> Who did they steal the land from.   Name the original owners before the Feds owned it. Right here:  ________________
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Allie....when can we be expecting an answer as to who owned that land before the Feds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As well as what peach174 said -
> 
> Feds holding and leasing BLM land is not abuse, but taking land that belongs to ranchers that holds deeds is.
> 
> This is a claim I have never heard before but I'm sure that peach174 will be along any minute now with a link.
> 
> Just like koshergrl will post links to her claim that this is not about getting use of land for free.
> 
> Right?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How ridiculous. Everybody else knows what the issue is....if you are too stupid to read the material please do everybody a favor and quit wasting bandwidth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you're wrong and you know it.
> 
> Gotta go but if you can come up with some proof of your claim _"They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control."_ (whatever THAT means!), by all means post it.
> 
> Prove that the land was stolen from the welfare ranchers.
> 
> Same to peach174
Click to expand...



Still no facts from koshergrl or peach174


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's not about grazing rights. You guys don't have a whole brain between you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, you can't say what they want.
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> You like to pretend you know everything about everything but when you're called on your know-it-all posts, you disappear or don't answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control.
Click to expand...


Stole from whom? The Paiutes?


----------



## koshergrl

Luddly Neddite said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who did they steal the land from.   Name the original owners before the Feds owned it. Right here:  ________________
> 
> 
> 
> Allie....when can we be expecting an answer as to who owned that land before the Feds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As well as what peach174 said -
> 
> Feds holding and leasing BLM land is not abuse, but taking land that belongs to ranchers that holds deeds is.
> 
> This is a claim I have never heard before but I'm sure that peach174 will be along any minute now with a link.
> 
> Just like koshergrl will post links to her claim that this is not about getting use of land for free.
> 
> Right?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How ridiculous. Everybody else knows what the issue is....if you are too stupid to read the material please do everybody a favor and quit wasting bandwidth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you're wrong and you know it.
> 
> Gotta go but if you can come up with some proof of your claim _"They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control."_ (whatever THAT means!), by all means post it.
> 
> Prove that the land was stolen from the welfare ranchers.
> 
> Same to peach174
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Still no facts from koshergrl or peach174
Click to expand...

 
I've posted reams of facts, names, and history. You're too stupid to read, and that's not my problem. Back on ignore you go, loser.


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder what would happen if the BLM supporters had been as well armed as Bundy's supporters when they protested?  Think a race war would have broken out?
> 
> 
> 
> The difference of course is that the militia aren't attacking anybody. And the Harney county group are protesting specific tyrannical actions...not just 'bad police arrests us when we loot!'
Click to expand...


Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo


----------



## Tilly

jillian said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
> 
> 
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of ones peers is fine, neighbours, which is what was posted, is not fine, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You arguing about the meaning of "neighbor" all day is what is silly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it isn't.  The idea of a jury is that they are unencumbered by personal knowledge, experiences, grievances, or biases against the defendant. 'Neighbours' don't normally fall into that category.  Clearly its not a word you should have used, so get over it already.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> historically, juries were from the same community as the accused or the litigant. they did know the person. in modern times, the juries are not supposed to know anything about the case before them.
> 
> so i'm not quite certain what you're talking about
Click to expand...

Clearly I'm talking about now and the importance of jury members not knowing the accused.  How can you be unclear about such a simple concept?


----------



## Tilly

jillian said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I didn't realise that. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch yerself n00b!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> seems more sock-ish than noob. no?
Click to expand...

Really? So another poster with a crystal ball. Who am I then? Lol.


----------



## SassyIrishLass

Tilly said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I didn't realise that. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch yerself n00b!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> seems more sock-ish than noob. no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really? So another poster with a crystal ball. Who am I then? Lol.
Click to expand...


Pay little attention to deflection, it only reveals you're under her skin


----------



## koshergrl

Tilly said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of ones peers is fine, neighbours, which is what was posted, is not fine, silly ass.
Click to expand...

 Their jury was from Pendleton, two hours away. The judge at the time addressed the minimum sentencing issue based on the fact that it was wildly out of proportion to the "crime".

 Meanwhile, the crazy progressive bitch who lit a hundred thousand acres because she and her buddies were bored got 13 months.


----------



## ClosedCaption

Luddly Neddite said:


> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Free logs, free ore and free grazing rights.
> 
> And of course, free rent. For 'years, if necessary'.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking?
> 
> Why did they bring guns then?
> 
> They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed.
> 
> That's the opposite of "peaceful".
Click to expand...


Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.

Because their white


----------



## peach174

Luddly Neddite said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who did they steal the land from.   Name the original owners before the Feds owned it. Right here:  ________________
> 
> 
> 
> Allie....when can we be expecting an answer as to who owned that land before the Feds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As well as what peach174 said -
> 
> Feds holding and leasing BLM land is not abuse, but taking land that belongs to ranchers that holds deeds is.
> 
> This is a claim I have never heard before but I'm sure that peach174 will be along any minute now with a link.
> 
> Just like koshergrl will post links to her claim that this is not about getting use of land for free.
> 
> Right?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How ridiculous. Everybody else knows what the issue is....if you are too stupid to read the material please do everybody a favor and quit wasting bandwidth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you're wrong and you know it.
> 
> Gotta go but if you can come up with some proof of your claim _"They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control."_ (whatever THAT means!), by all means post it.
> 
> Prove that the land was stolen from the welfare ranchers.
> 
> Same to peach174
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Still no facts from koshergrl or peach174
Click to expand...



I lost my internet around 8:15 a.m. or so this morning.
Just got it back around 6:30 tonight.
Talk to you all tomorrow.


----------



## koshergrl

ClosedCaption said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
> 
> 
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking?
> 
> Why did they bring guns then?
> 
> They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed.
> 
> That's the opposite of "peaceful".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.
> 
> Because their white
Click to expand...

That's because sane people distinguish between animals who have stated a desire to kill innocents, and good guys who have stated a desire to protect them.


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking?
> 
> Why did they bring guns then?
> 
> They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed.
> 
> That's the opposite of "peaceful".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.
> 
> Because their white
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's because sane people distinguish between animals who have stated a desire to kill innocents, and good guys who have stated a desire to protect them.
Click to expand...


And yet, the insurgents in OR are using Children as human shields, just like other terrorists do.


----------



## koshergrl

Agit8r said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> 
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking?
> 
> Why did they bring guns then?
> 
> They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed.
> 
> That's the opposite of "peaceful".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.
> 
> Because their white
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's because sane people distinguish between animals who have stated a desire to kill innocents, and good guys who have stated a desire to protect them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, the insurgents in OR are using Children as human shields, just like other terrorists do.
Click to expand...

 no they aren't, how lame. They're coming and going at will. They haven't threatened anyone or done anything except occupy an empty building. Don't be such a liar.


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking?
> 
> Why did they bring guns then?
> 
> They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed.
> 
> That's the opposite of "peaceful".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.
> 
> Because their white
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's because sane people distinguish between animals who have stated a desire to kill innocents, and good guys who have stated a desire to protect them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, the insurgents in OR are using Children as human shields, just like other terrorists do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no they aren't, how lame. They're coming and going at will. They haven't threatened anyone or done anything except occupy an empty building. Don't be such a liar.
Click to expand...


What do you suppose will happen when the Feds come to reclaim the property, for its intended legal use?


----------



## koshergrl

Agit8r said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking?
> 
> Why did they bring guns then?
> 
> They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed.
> 
> That's the opposite of "peaceful".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.
> 
> Because their white
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's because sane people distinguish between animals who have stated a desire to kill innocents, and good guys who have stated a desire to protect them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, the insurgents in OR are using Children as human shields, just like other terrorists do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no they aren't, how lame. They're coming and going at will. They haven't threatened anyone or done anything except occupy an empty building. Don't be such a liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you suppose will happen when the Feds come to reclaim the property, for its intended legal use?
Click to expand...

Oh you mean when they decide to open a gift shop? And the public restrooms..that they close during the winter? Lol shut the fuck up, loser. There are no kids in danger, except from the Fed's.


----------



## Dot Com

You only have Republicorp and their paymasters in the prison industrial complex to blame for mandatory minimums


----------



## Tilly

Agit8r said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> 
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking?
> 
> Why did they bring guns then?
> 
> They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed.
> 
> That's the opposite of "peaceful".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.
> 
> Because their white
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's because sane people distinguish between animals who have stated a desire to kill innocents, and good guys who have stated a desire to protect them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, the insurgents in OR are using Children as human shields, just like other terrorists do.
Click to expand...

One of the protesters, Duane Ehmer, speaks to the media

Several children also came along although the militia men said the youngsters were visitors who were not staying on the site.

Inside the Oregon refuge seized by militiamen - BBC News


----------



## Tilly

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.
> 
> Because their white
> 
> 
> 
> That's because sane people distinguish between animals who have stated a desire to kill innocents, and good guys who have stated a desire to protect them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, the insurgents in OR are using Children as human shields, just like other terrorists do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no they aren't, how lame. They're coming and going at will. They haven't threatened anyone or done anything except occupy an empty building. Don't be such a liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you suppose will happen when the Feds come to reclaim the property, for its intended legal use?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh you mean when they decide to open a gift shop? And the public restrooms..that they close during the winter? Lol shut the fuck up, loser. There are no kids in danger, except from the Fed's.
Click to expand...

Ive read several reports of local families visiting the site with their kids.  Human shields.  Lol.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Agit8r said:


> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo


A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.

So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?

You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?


----------



## teddyearp

I have a reply or two to address in this slug fest, but I thought I would post this quote from a jeep club forum site in Arizona I belong to where this subject has come up.  This guy makes an excellent summation:



> The thing is, at least as I see it, we all have a dog in this fight. The Constitution does not allow the federal government to own lands other than for military bases. I could be wrong there but I'm pretty sure that's what it says. And also, parcels not larger than 10 acres. The fact that they starved the other ranchers out by flooding their lands and then purchased their land is criminal, as far as I'm concerned. AND, as soon as the NWR was determined to be a failure, it should have been reversed. But you are right, the government will fight tooth and nail, blade and bullet to keep any program/project that allows them to spend money and justify raising taxes. People talk about how big and powerful the gun lobby is, or the Utility lobby, but those pale in comparison to the green, environmental lobby. Especially with 75% of the people in the this country living in a city and believing everything they see on social and mainstream media.
> 
> Americans these days seem to be okay with laws and regulations telling others how they have to live as long as it doesn't effect them. They (.gov) are systematically taking us apart.
> 
> I grew up in a small town surrounded by BLM, Air Force, Reservation, wildlife refuge, and a national monument. The monument was closed to the public because the drug runners are using it and it easier to keep us out than them, the wildlife moonbats decided the rancher's cattle was interfering with the prong horn antelope south of town (outside the refuge) so the BLM revoked the grazing permits. Only thing is, the pronghorn were enjoying the same water the cattle were so they died off in that area after the cattlemen left. It's illegal for the border patrol, or anyone else, to pursue drug runners into the refuge so it's now a pipeline for drugs and polluted heavily. And, once the areas were closed to OHV, by the BLM, the fawns they thought they were protecting were killed by predators that used to be scared off by jeeps, quads, etc.
> 
> It's tyranny. It's stupid and we are paying for it. In five years they will start the second round of trail closures, fueled by the fact the first round was not enforced well enough and the damage to natural resources has continued, and then the OHV crowd will be looking for help from the ranchers and they won't be there. The mountain bike guys might pitch in since they are now being categorized as 'mechanical' recreation and subject to a lot of the restriction us 'motorized' folks are. But I wouldn't count on many of them realizing they need us to keep their trails open.
> 
> The Ranchers in the west valley were a huge help in preventing the 1.5 million acres of new wilderness. There's no better stewards for the lands, the Ranchers understand it better than any college graduate biologist.



And here's a real thought for all of you.

If this 'armed takeover', "y'allkinda" thing hadn't happened, none of us would ever have known about it.

And some of us would never have known about it either.


----------



## koshergrl

There was a minister who went to visit them. I suppose he was a human shield, too. He said Bundy wasn't even there when he got there. Bundy had no idea they closed the schools, he said he had been all over the place. He has no plans for violence, he's just protesting tyranny. And the community says he's absolutely right about the blm.


----------



## Tilly

koshergrl said:


> There was a minister who went to visit them. I suppose he was a human shield, too. He said Bundy wasn't even there when he got there. Bundy had no idea they closed the schools, he said he had been all over the place. He has no plans for violence, he's just protesting tyranny. And the community says he's absolutely right about the blm.


Apart from the closed schools, the town is carrying on as normal.  The bloodlust of the libtards is truly quite uncanny.


----------



## Dot Com

Any of that sourced?


----------



## Tilly

teddyearp said:


> I have a reply or two to address in this slug fest, but I thought I would post this quote from a jeep club forum site in Arizona I belong to where this subject has come up.  This guy makes an excellent summation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing is, at least as I see it, we all have a dog in this fight. The Constitution does not allow the federal government to own lands other than for military bases. I could be wrong there but I'm pretty sure that's what it says. And also, parcels not larger than 10 acres. The fact that they starved the other ranchers out by flooding their lands and then purchased their land is criminal, as far as I'm concerned. AND, as soon as the NWR was determined to be a failure, it should have been reversed. But you are right, the government will fight tooth and nail, blade and bullet to keep any program/project that allows them to spend money and justify raising taxes. People talk about how big and powerful the gun lobby is, or the Utility lobby, but those pale in comparison to the green, environmental lobby. Especially with 75% of the people in the this country living in a city and believing everything they see on social and mainstream media.
> 
> Americans these days seem to be okay with laws and regulations telling others how they have to live as long as it doesn't effect them. They (.gov) are systematically taking us apart.
> 
> I grew up in a small town surrounded by BLM, Air Force, Reservation, wildlife refuge, and a national monument. The monument was closed to the public because the drug runners are using it and it easier to keep us out than them, the wildlife moonbats decided the rancher's cattle was interfering with the prong horn antelope south of town (outside the refuge) so the BLM revoked the grazing permits. Only thing is, the pronghorn were enjoying the same water the cattle were so they died off in that area after the cattlemen left. It's illegal for the border patrol, or anyone else, to pursue drug runners into the refuge so it's now a pipeline for drugs and polluted heavily. And, once the areas were closed to OHV, by the BLM, the fawns they thought they were protecting were killed by predators that used to be scared off by jeeps, quads, etc.
> 
> It's tyranny. It's stupid and we are paying for it. In five years they will start the second round of trail closures, fueled by the fact the first round was not enforced well enough and the damage to natural resources has continued, and then the OHV crowd will be looking for help from the ranchers and they won't be there. The mountain bike guys might pitch in since they are now being categorized as 'mechanical' recreation and subject to a lot of the restriction us 'motorized' folks are. But I wouldn't count on many of them realizing they need us to keep their trails open.
> 
> The Ranchers in the west valley were a huge help in preventing the 1.5 million acres of new wilderness. There's no better stewards for the lands, the Ranchers understand it better than any college graduate biologist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's a real thought for all of you.
> 
> If this 'armed takeover', "y'allkinda" thing hadn't happened, none of us would ever have known about it.
> 
> And some of us would never have known about it either.
Click to expand...

Very informative. Thank you.


----------



## Tilly

Dot Com said:


> Any of that sourced?


YAWN.


----------



## JimBowie1958

teddyearp said:


> I have a reply or two to address in this slug fest, but I thought I would post this quote from a jeep club forum site in Arizona I belong to where this subject has come up.  This guy makes an excellent summation:...
> 
> And here's a real thought for all of you.
> 
> If this 'armed takeover', "y'allkinda" thing hadn't happened, none of us would ever have known about it.
> 
> And some of us would never have known about it either.



You mean you got a problem with the federal gooberment owning 90% of the public land west of the Dakotas?

When did you start to hate America?  /just kidding


----------



## BlueGin

ClosedCaption said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, Skylar!  Did you see the guy on TV that just joined up with the Bundy thugs?  He has said goodbye to his family and claims he is willing to give his life if necessary for the 'cause'.  It's one of those situations where you laugh at the absurdity, and cry at the stupidity.
> 
> 
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking?
> 
> Why did they bring guns then?
> 
> They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed.
> 
> That's the opposite of "peaceful".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.
> 
> Because their white
Click to expand...

Did they kill anyone?


----------



## BlueGin

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking?
> 
> Why did they bring guns then?
> 
> They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed.
> 
> That's the opposite of "peaceful".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.
> 
> Because their white
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's because sane people distinguish between animals who have stated a desire to kill innocents, and good guys who have stated a desire to protect them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet, the insurgents in OR are using Children as human shields, just like other terrorists do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no they aren't, how lame. They're coming and going at will. They haven't threatened anyone or done anything except occupy an empty building. Don't be such a liar.
Click to expand...

And the main two involved in the legal issues surrendered themselves to law enforcement.


----------



## BlueGin

Tilly said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was a minister who went to visit them. I suppose he was a human shield, too. He said Bundy wasn't even there when he got there. Bundy had no idea they closed the schools, he said he had been all over the place. He has no plans for violence, he's just protesting tyranny. And the community says he's absolutely right about the blm.
> 
> 
> 
> Apart from the closed schools, the town is carrying on as normal.  The bloodlust of the libtards is truly quite uncanny.
Click to expand...

I know right. The fake anti gun crowd is hoping they all get mowed down.

Idiots.


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> He has no plans for violence, he's just protesting tyranny.



Except that there isn't any tyranny to protest at all.  Some large land-owners committed very serious crimes, and some think that the rules shouldn't apply to them the way they apply to every other American.  It is textbook fascism, including the marauding armed thugs.

"The conviction that there is a right to use weapons, even the most brutal, ever goes hand in hand with fanatical belief that a new and revolutionizing order of things must be victorious in the world. A movement that fails to fight for such high ideals and aims will never fight to the very last. In producing a great new idea the French Revolution discovered the secret of success. It was the same with the Russian Revolution, and Fascism drew its strength solely from the idea of submitting a whole nation to a process of complete regeneration, with very happy results for that nation."
-- Adolf Hitler; from 'Mein Kampf'

If allowed to continue, this anarchy will result in the same sort of tyranny. Real tyranny.


----------



## Agit8r

JimBowie1958 said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
Click to expand...


Actually, I just read the official court document:

"The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations. After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.

"The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires. Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed. The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby. The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons."

Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

the authorities should pretend they are Negroes ..............


----------



## teddyearp

Dot Com said:


> Any of that sourced?



The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.

The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.


----------



## bullwinkle

Agit8r said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I just read the official court document:
> 
> "The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations. After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> "The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires. Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed. The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby. The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons."
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
Click to expand...

Agit8, thank you for posting the official charges and witness accounts.  I wondered about the specific of the charges.  I also know that the northwest is very serious about fires, especially forest fires.  I am assuming the Hammonds are aware of that even more than a Michigander like me.  And they at least surrendered peacefully, for which I applaud them.


----------



## koshergrl

teddyearp said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any of that sourced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
Click to expand...

The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.


----------



## Dot Com

teddyearp said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any of that sourced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
Click to expand...

"sourced" meaning it can be fact checked as verifiable statements. I wasn't asking where it came from


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any of that sourced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
Click to expand...

are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?


----------



## Liminal

These wannabe warriors must be a little disappointed about not having a dramatic standoff with law enforcement.    Reporters on the scene can't seem to find a cop anywhere; federal, state or local.  So it looks like the only people there are the media and a few rednecks with guns hanging around drinking beer.   Not much of a revolution if no one takes the threat of action seriously.   In this case simply ignoring the revolutionaries will probably discourage them from storming the Bastille any time soon.


----------



## ClosedCaption

BlueGin said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlueGin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then he stated it would never get that far. .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So he said he would die there for no reason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He said they were seeking peaceful negotiations. Not blood shed.
> 
> Get back to be when they call for the police to be "fried like bacon".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They want "peaceful negotiations" about their law breaking?
> 
> Why did they bring guns then?
> 
> They said they are willing to kill and/or be killed.
> 
> That's the opposite of "peaceful".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its funny, blue gin actually considers mean words to be more threatening that bringing guns and sayin they are willing to die there.
> 
> Because their white
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Did they kill anyone?
Click to expand...


The protesters didnt kill anyone either so you need to try again.


----------



## koshergrl

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any of that sourced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
Click to expand...

From the residents.


----------



## koshergrl

Liminal said:


> These wannabe warriors must be a little disappointed about not having a dramatic standoff with law enforcement.    Reporters on the scene can't seem to find a cop anywhere; federal, state or local.  So it looks like the only people there are the media and a few rednecks with guns hanging around drinking beer.   Not much of a revolution if no one takes the threat of action seriously.   In this case simply ignoring the revolutionaries will probably discourage them from storming the Bastille any time soon.


----------



## ClosedCaption

Guns?  No problem
Threats?  Big Deal
Arson?  Controlled burn lol

Man, its funny to see the same bunch who cry at every protest be the same ones to defend shit like Arson by calling it a "controlled burn".  How was it controlled?  LOL


----------



## Liminal

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any of that sourced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
Click to expand...

Are you kidding?  She really can't even speak on her own behalf without embarrassing herself.


----------



## Liminal

koshergrl said:


> Liminal said:
> 
> 
> 
> These wannabe warriors must be a little disappointed about not having a dramatic standoff with law enforcement.    Reporters on the scene can't seem to find a cop anywhere; federal, state or local.  So it looks like the only people there are the media and a few rednecks with guns hanging around drinking beer.   Not much of a revolution if no one takes the threat of action seriously.   In this case simply ignoring the revolutionaries will probably discourage them from storming the Bastille any time soon.
Click to expand...

I won't even watch your video because it will undoubtedly be something stupid and irrelevant.


----------



## Hutch Starskey




----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any of that sourced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
Click to expand...

You are not able to provide sources because you are selectively choosing the "media" that provided your own viewpoints and agenda. This you do while claiming those with opposing views are limited to the media feeding the public information and data that opposes your agenda.
How about this, it doesn't make much difference how the story is distributed. There is one fact that matters. The Wildlife Refuge is owned by the citizens of the USA. It has been controlled and maintained for over a hundred years by taxpayer funds. Much of it was actually purchased with taxpayer funds (Blitzen Vally and Double O section). We have a system that determines how it is used. The elected officials in Congress provide funding and supervision. If people want to change the way our property is used we have a system to make those changes. It does not include random armed citizens making demands.


----------



## koshergrl

Liminal said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liminal said:
> 
> 
> 
> These wannabe warriors must be a little disappointed about not having a dramatic standoff with law enforcement.    Reporters on the scene can't seem to find a cop anywhere; federal, state or local.  So it looks like the only people there are the media and a few rednecks with guns hanging around drinking beer.   Not much of a revolution if no one takes the threat of action seriously.   In this case simply ignoring the revolutionaries will probably discourage them from storming the Bastille any time soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I won't even watch your video because it will undoubtedly be something stupid and irrelevant.
Click to expand...




Liminal said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I'm hoping these assholes decide to have an "armed protest" on some BLM property in my area.  I'll be more than happy to set up a counter sniper position aimed at them.......see how they like that.
Click to expand...




Liminal said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> I'm hoping these assholes decide to have an "armed protest" on some BLM property in my area.  I'll be more than happy to set up a counter sniper position aimed at them.......see how they like that.
Click to expand...

Please go to Harney county and set yourself up as a sniper, lol.That is probably the fastest way to relieve the world of your presence.


----------



## Dot Com

Allie claims to be an eastern Oregon girl. She said that back a few pages



koshergrl said:


> Yes, I'm an Eastern Oregon girl.


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any of that sourced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the residents.
Click to expand...

so you live there?


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## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any of that sourced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the residents.
Click to expand...

Sure you do....Allie's "in the know"...........


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## Luddly Neddite

Hutch Starskey said:


> View attachment 58990




Considering the Hammonds set the fires to cover up their poaching, the crybabies should be more than willing to poach their snacks.

The refuge is the result of the feds bailing out failed ranchers in 1934 and now these yahoos 'want the land back'?

These welfare ranchers get bail out money every every single year and now they've got their hands out for more.

And they're vandalizing and stealing from the site. Typical RWNJs traitors.


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## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any of that sourced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the residents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure you do....Allie's "in the know"...........
Click to expand...

lol Allie  She doesn't realize how silly she makes herself look by sitting her fat ass on the 'puter and passing gas..... errr..... judgement


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## koshergrl

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any of that sourced?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the residents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you live there?
Click to expand...

I live on the coast now. My close family lives in Eastern Oregon. My high school played against Burns. I spent years in Grant county, have close family there still, and have friends in Harney county. I spent five years in Wheeler county, which I think has a smaller population than Harney.


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## koshergrl

Dot Com said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
> 
> 
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the residents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure you do....Allie's "in the know"...........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol Allie  She doesn't realize how silly she makes herself look by sitting her fat ass on the 'puter and passing gas..... errr..... judgement
Click to expand...

Irony.


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
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> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
> 
> 
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the residents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you live there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live on the coast now. My close family lives in Eastern Oregon. My high school played against Burns. I spent years in Grant county, have close family there still, and have friends in Harney county. I spent five years in Wheeler county, which I think has a smaller population than Harney.
Click to expand...

so no, you don't live there. at best you have some lunatic family members (it does run in families) spouting off the same lunatic stuff you do and you're trying to say that represents 'the residents'

tell me, does your entire family believe that the shootings in newtown and san bernadino were staged or is it just you? do they hate america as much as you or are you the outlier?


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The source is from a different forum site and I do not believe it is ok to post links to other sites.  As such, most of the people at that site have been dealing with the BLM for years and years and years and have also seen firsthand how they operate.
> 
> The media is only feeding us the .gov side of this thing folks.  As for "all the signs all over" telling them to leave, I have only seen one in the news.
> 
> 
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the residents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you live there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live on the coast now. My close family lives in Eastern Oregon. My high school played against Burns. I spent years in Grant county, have close family there still, and have friends in Harney county. I spent five years in Wheeler county, which I think has a smaller population than Harney.
Click to expand...

Cool story....


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## koshergrl

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
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> koshergrl said:
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> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> 
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the residents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you live there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live on the coast now. My close family lives in Eastern Oregon. My high school played against Burns. I spent years in Grant county, have close family there still, and have friends in Harney county. I spent five years in Wheeler county, which I think has a smaller population than Harney.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so no, you don't live there. at best you have some lunatic family members (it does run in families) spouting off the same lunatic stuff you do and you're trying to say that represents 'the residents'
> 
> tell me, does your entire family believe that the shootings in newtown and san bernadino were staged or is it just you? do they hate america as much as you or are you the outlier?
Click to expand...

Lol ok...


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## Dot Com

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ogibillm said:
> 
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> koshergrl said:
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> ogibillm said:
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> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The residents are grateful that attention is being paid to their situation.
> 
> 
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From the residents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you live there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live on the coast now. My close family lives in Eastern Oregon. My high school played against Burns. I spent years in Grant county, have close family there still, and have friends in Harney county. I spent five years in Wheeler county, which I think has a smaller population than Harney.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so no, you don't live there. at best you have some lunatic family members (it does run in families) spouting off the same lunatic stuff you do and you're trying to say that represents 'the residents'
> 
> tell me, does your entire family believe that the shootings in newtown and san bernadino were staged or is it just you? do they hate america as much as you or are you the outlier?
Click to expand...

Good post. She is an ODS Queen. That much is certain. Thinking those events were staged is offensive, not to mention- rw tinfoil stuff


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## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
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> koshergrl said:
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> ogibillm said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> 
> 
> From the residents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you live there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live on the coast now. My close family lives in Eastern Oregon. My high school played against Burns. I spent years in Grant county, have close family there still, and have friends in Harney county. I spent five years in Wheeler county, which I think has a smaller population than Harney.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so no, you don't live there. at best you have some lunatic family members (it does run in families) spouting off the same lunatic stuff you do and you're trying to say that represents 'the residents'
> 
> tell me, does your entire family believe that the shootings in newtown and san bernadino were staged or is it just you? do they hate america as much as you or are you the outlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol ok...
Click to expand...

shoe fits, doesn't it


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## ogibillm

Dot Com said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> koshergrl said:
> 
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> ogibillm said:
> 
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> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> are they? nice of you to speak on their behalf. where do you get that information?
> 
> 
> 
> From the residents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you live there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I live on the coast now. My close family lives in Eastern Oregon. My high school played against Burns. I spent years in Grant county, have close family there still, and have friends in Harney county. I spent five years in Wheeler county, which I think has a smaller population than Harney.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so no, you don't live there. at best you have some lunatic family members (it does run in families) spouting off the same lunatic stuff you do and you're trying to say that represents 'the residents'
> 
> tell me, does your entire family believe that the shootings in newtown and san bernadino were staged or is it just you? do they hate america as much as you or are you the outlier?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good post. She is an ODS Queen. That much is certain. Thinking those events were staged is offensive, not to mention- rw tinfoil stuff
Click to expand...

to be fair to the america hater, i don't know that she believes that personally. i assume she does because she used KrisAnne Hall as a source and she most definitely does.


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## Dot Com

Worth mentioning again that the terrorists are from out of town.


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## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Two ranchers accidently burn some brush and the Liberals call it terrorism.  A few hundred Black Lives Matter protesters intentionally burn a couple city blocks and they call it justice.
> 
> How fucked up is that?
> 
> 
> 
> You are playing down what they were convicted of. This is lightly populated county and the ranchers were convicted by a jury made up of the local folks. The government alone did not convict them. Their neighbors convicted them. Add the fact that they have accepted the ruling of the court and disavowed any relationship to the people who have taken over the wildlife refuge and a more accurate assessment can be made. The domestic terrorists are not speaking for the ranchers or the people who live in that area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you think someones neighbours should be on their jury?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of your peers, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A jury of ones peers is fine, neighbours, which is what was posted, is not fine, silly ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their jury was from Pendleton, two hours away. The judge at the time addressed the minimum sentencing issue based on the fact that it was wildly out of proportion to the "crime".
> 
> Meanwhile, the crazy progressive bitch who lit a hundred thousand acres because she and her buddies were bored got 13 months.
Click to expand...

Was she a repeat offender?


----------



## Dot Com

People have to realize that if they're out there, its public lands. If you don't know the rules going-in, thats not Uncle Sams fault.


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## Faun

Old Rocks said:


> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*


They should just shoot them already and end this.


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## Brain357

Dot Com said:


> Worth mentioning again that the terrorists are from out of town.



It's funny these guys thought they were going to start a revolution and instead are mostly ignored.  Even most the right wingers seem to know these guys are just turds.


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## Dot Com

They are going about it the wrong way. You don't git 'r done in MURICA w/ lynch mobs. You go through the regular process of suing


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## charwin95

Brain357 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worth mentioning again that the terrorists are from out of town.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny these guys thought they were going to start a revolution and instead are mostly ignored.  Even most the right wingers seem to know these guys are just turds.
Click to expand...


Other militia groups don't even support these terrorists. 

http://www.newsweek.com/oregon-standoff-ammon-bundy-militias-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-412072


----------



## Old Rocks

teddyearp said:


> I have a reply or two to address in this slug fest, but I thought I would post this quote from a jeep club forum site in Arizona I belong to where this subject has come up.  This guy makes an excellent summation:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thing is, at least as I see it, we all have a dog in this fight. The Constitution does not allow the federal government to own lands other than for military bases. I could be wrong there but I'm pretty sure that's what it says. And also, parcels not larger than 10 acres. The fact that they starved the other ranchers out by flooding their lands and then purchased their land is criminal, as far as I'm concerned. AND, as soon as the NWR was determined to be a failure, it should have been reversed. But you are right, the government will fight tooth and nail, blade and bullet to keep any program/project that allows them to spend money and justify raising taxes. People talk about how big and powerful the gun lobby is, or the Utility lobby, but those pale in comparison to the green, environmental lobby. Especially with 75% of the people in the this country living in a city and believing everything they see on social and mainstream media.
> 
> Americans these days seem to be okay with laws and regulations telling others how they have to live as long as it doesn't effect them. They (.gov) are systematically taking us apart.
> 
> I grew up in a small town surrounded by BLM, Air Force, Reservation, wildlife refuge, and a national monument. The monument was closed to the public because the drug runners are using it and it easier to keep us out than them, the wildlife moonbats decided the rancher's cattle was interfering with the prong horn antelope south of town (outside the refuge) so the BLM revoked the grazing permits. Only thing is, the pronghorn were enjoying the same water the cattle were so they died off in that area after the cattlemen left. It's illegal for the border patrol, or anyone else, to pursue drug runners into the refuge so it's now a pipeline for drugs and polluted heavily. And, once the areas were closed to OHV, by the BLM, the fawns they thought they were protecting were killed by predators that used to be scared off by jeeps, quads, etc.
> 
> It's tyranny. It's stupid and we are paying for it. In five years they will start the second round of trail closures, fueled by the fact the first round was not enforced well enough and the damage to natural resources has continued, and then the OHV crowd will be looking for help from the ranchers and they won't be there. The mountain bike guys might pitch in since they are now being categorized as 'mechanical' recreation and subject to a lot of the restriction us 'motorized' folks are. But I wouldn't count on many of them realizing they need us to keep their trails open.
> 
> The Ranchers in the west valley were a huge help in preventing the 1.5 million acres of new wilderness. There's no better stewards for the lands, the Ranchers understand it better than any college graduate biologist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's a real thought for all of you.
> 
> If this 'armed takeover', "y'allkinda" thing hadn't happened, none of us would ever have known about it.
> 
> And some of us would never have known about it either.
Click to expand...

A summation for the right to destroy the special places important to the rest of us? Sorry, buddy boy, you are a very small minority, and do not get to decide for the rest of us.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Liminal said:
> 
> 
> 
> These wannabe warriors must be a little disappointed about not having a dramatic standoff with law enforcement.    Reporters on the scene can't seem to find a cop anywhere; federal, state or local.  So it looks like the only people there are the media and a few rednecks with guns hanging around drinking beer.   Not much of a revolution if no one takes the threat of action seriously.   In this case simply ignoring the revolutionaries will probably discourage them from storming the Bastille any time soon.
Click to expand...

Time to replace that old dinosaur. He supported the government shutdown, tried to extend it, and hurt the people in that area. You see, most of the jobs in that area depend on repairing infrastructure maintained by the government. Pull the tax money from the urban areas out of Eastern Oregon, and half the small towns simply disappear.


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## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> Wah, wah.............  Really? If you are that hard working, why are you that poor? Perhaps there are other jobs than flipping burgers?



Where is Janet Reno? Are there any kids for her to kill among the militia?


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## iamwhatiseem

If these were Oregon pot growers doing this - every single person here who is saying something negative - would be rooting for the pot growers.
PERIOD.


----------



## Old Rocks

Uncensored2008 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wah, wah.............  Really? If you are that hard working, why are you that poor? Perhaps there are other jobs than flipping burgers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is Janet Reno? Are there any kids for her to kill among the militia?
Click to expand...

Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.


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## Old Rocks

iamwhatiseem said:


> If these were Oregon pot growers doing this - every single person here who is saying something negative - would be rooting for the pot growers.
> PERIOD.


If these were pot growers taking over a federal installation with guns, they would already be dead. Same rules should apply for these assholes.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Old Rocks said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> If these were Oregon pot growers doing this - every single person here who is saying something negative - would be rooting for the pot growers.
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> If these were pot growers taking over a federal installation with guns, they would already be dead. Same rules should apply for these assholes.
Click to expand...


Not in Oregon they wouldn't.


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## Uncensored2008

Faun said:


> They should just shoot them already and end this.



What about their families? Should Obama's army kick in the doors of the homes of these infidels and kill their families as warning to others who might think to defy the living god who is our ruler?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.



Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.

So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?



> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.



I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.


----------



## Old Rocks

Uncensored2008 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just shoot them already and end this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about their families? Should Obama's army kick in the doors of the homes of these infidels and kill their families as warning to others who might think to defy the living god who is our ruler?
Click to expand...

No, that is Trump's way. As he stated.


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
Click to expand...

 And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.


----------



## Old Rocks

iamwhatiseem said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> If these were Oregon pot growers doing this - every single person here who is saying something negative - would be rooting for the pot growers.
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> If these were pot growers taking over a federal installation with guns, they would already be dead. Same rules should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not in Oregon they wouldn't.
Click to expand...

My, my, another outsider trying tell me how the people in my state do things. You know, there is a reason that more people are moving to Oregon than to any other state.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Uncensored2008 said:


> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?









[/QUOTE]


----------



## Old Rocks

Kosher is flat out lying. The Sheriff, and the City Council have both stated that they don't want the militia there, and that most of the people there don't want them there.


----------



## koshergrl

This is how the BLM handles elderly Shoshone Indians who refuse to cede treaty rights to ancestral lands.
Yazh Orion - This is how the BLM and Dept of Interior... | Facebook


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Kosher is flat out lying. The Sheriff, and the City Council have both stated that they don't want the militia there, and that most of the people there don't want them there.


 
You're the liar. The Sheriff has been plied with requests from the locals to ask the FEDS to leave, and every person who speaks on the matter says that while they don't agree with the trespass, they DEFINITELY understand the motivation and are hopeful that now there's some attention being paid to the situation, maybe the Feds will pull the BLM pigs off their necks.


----------



## Uncensored2008

koshergrl said:


> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.



The Hammond's served their sentence. For a federal judge to order them back to prison after their sentence is complete is unconstitutional, the attachment of double jeopardy. Now we know the Obama regime shits on the Constitution and has zero regard for the laws of this nation. 

That said, legal action against the Ninth Circuit court is the best option, tie up the leftist scum until the SCOTUS hears it. 

I'm not sure what Bundy and his group really think they will accomplish.


----------



## Old Rocks

Is that what you call information, Kosher? A set of pictures without an informative link to what the whole picture is? And we are not dealing with that situation here, whatever that situation is. What we are dealing with here is the armed takeover of Federal Land, that is the defintion of sedition, and deserves to be treated as such.

I imagine the Government, local and federal, will keep a low profile, and let the locos run themselves out of food. Then, after they leave, swear out warrants and pick them up one at a time. I do hope they go for the maximum sentences for all of these miscreants.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammond's served their sentence. For a federal judge to order them back to prison after their sentence is complete is unconstitutional, the attachment of double jeopardy.
Click to expand...

Nope. Double jeopardy is a prohibition against trying a person twice for the same crime. Not changing their sentence. Sentences are changed all the time, plea bargains thrown out, etc. 

The Hammonds themselves requested that the USSC reduce their sentence. Something that would be legally impossible if your pseudo-legal nonsense was actually true. 

Remember, you don't actually know what you're talking about. Nor have the slightest clue what the terms you're using actually mean.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> My, my, another outsider trying tell me how the people in my state do things. You know, there is a reason that more people are moving to Oregon than to any other state.



Uh shit fer brains? It is "outsiders" in the form of federal courts who are sending men back to prison after the completion of their sentence. That is called "double jeopardy" and violates the Constitution of the United States of America.

Now look, I realize that you are a member of the democratic - socialist party and are dedicated to eradicating the Constitution, as is that fuckwad of a god you worship. But there are still many of us who cling to the nation ruled by law rather than your god.


----------



## Old Rocks

Uncensored2008 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammond's served their sentence. For a federal judge to order them back to prison after their sentence is complete is unconstitutional, the attachment of double jeopardy. Now we know the Obama regime shits on the Constitution and has zero regard for the laws of this nation.
> 
> That said, legal action against the Ninth Circuit court is the best option, tie up the leftist scum until the SCOTUS hears it.
> 
> I'm not sure what Bundy and his group really think they will accomplish.
Click to expand...

Everything that Bundy will accomplish will be negative. As stated many times previously, were I in Burns at the time of the march, I would have been in it. The Hammond's are getting a raw deal, and it needs to be addressed through the courts.

Bundy is now stating it is all about taking down the Federal Government. He cares not a bit about the Hammond's or the people of Harney County. He simply in this for his twisted vision.


----------



## Old Rocks

Uncensored2008 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> My, my, another outsider trying tell me how the people in my state do things. You know, there is a reason that more people are moving to Oregon than to any other state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh shit fer brains? It is "outsiders" in the form of federal courts who are sending men back to prison after the completion of their sentence. That is called "double jeopardy" and violates the Constitution of the United States of America.
> 
> Now look, I realize that you are a member of the democratic - socialist party and are dedicated to eradicating the Constitution, as is that fuckwad of a god you worship. But there are still many of us who cling to the nation ruled by law rather than your god.
Click to expand...

Look little illiterate cocksuck, were you to read my previous statements, you would know that I oppose the nonsense sentence of terrorism the Hammond's are serving. You would also know that I think that the Bundy's fully deserve that sentence, and more.

If you are going to reply to people, reply to what they said, not to what you wish they had said. You cannot just shoehorn everybody into your idiotic world of all black and all white.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> Nope. Double jeopardy is a prohibition against trying a person twice for the same crime. Not changing their sentence. Sentences are changed all the time, plea bargains thrown out, etc.



So what you're saying is that the federal thugs are sending men to prison with no charges and no trial?

Sentences are NOT changed after the completion of the sentence and release of the prisoners. The Hammond's are political prisoners of the criminal Obama regime. 

In America, the party cannot put people in prison because they don't like them. 



> The Hammonds themselves requested that the USSC reduce their sentence. Something that would be legally impossible if your pseudo-legal nonsense was actually true.
> 
> Remember, you don't actually know what you're talking about. Nor have the slightest clue what the terms you're using actually mean.



The Hammond's served their entire sentence. In a nation of laws, people are not put back into prison because the regime is offended by their words. 

Remember, you are a thug who shits on the Constitution and the concept of law.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> Everything that Bundy will accomplish will be negative. As stated many times previously, were I in Burns at the time of the march, I would have been in it. The Hammond's are getting a raw deal, and it needs to be addressed through the courts.
> 
> Bundy is now stating it is all about taking down the Federal Government. He cares not a bit about the Hammond's or the people of Harney County. He simply in this for his twisted vision.



Comrade, you're an internet tough guy; so why don't you pick up a can of pepper spray and go arrest these men in the name of your personal lord and saviour, Barack Obama? I'm sure they would collapse in fear at the sight of you prancing up to the door, lisping orders at them....


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammond's served their sentence. For a federal judge to order them back to prison after their sentence is complete is unconstitutional, the attachment of double jeopardy. Now we know the Obama regime shits on the Constitution and has zero regard for the laws of this nation.
> 
> That said, legal action against the Ninth Circuit court is the best option, tie up the leftist scum until the SCOTUS hears it.
> 
> I'm not sure what Bundy and his group really think they will accomplish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything that Bundy will accomplish will be negative. As stated many times previously, were I in Burns at the time of the march, I would have been in it. The Hammond's are getting a raw deal, and it needs to be addressed through the courts.
> 
> Bundy is now stating it is all about taking down the Federal Government. He cares not a bit about the Hammond's or the people of Harney County. He simply in this for his twisted vision.
Click to expand...

 
He's already accomplished positive things for Harney County. Who cares what you've stated, you're a lefty urbanite statist who has no understanding of the people, or the issues.


----------



## Seawytch

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Double jeopardy is a prohibition against trying a person twice for the same crime. Not changing their sentence. Sentences are changed all the time, plea bargains thrown out, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you're saying is that the federal thugs are sending men to prison with no charges and no trial?
> 
> Sentences are NOT changed after the completion of the sentence and release of the prisoners. The Hammond's are political prisoners of the criminal Obama regime.
> 
> In America, the party cannot put people in prison because they don't like them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammonds themselves requested that the USSC reduce their sentence. Something that would be legally impossible if your pseudo-legal nonsense was actually true.
> 
> Remember, you don't actually know what you're talking about. Nor have the slightest clue what the terms you're using actually mean.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Hammond's served their entire sentence. In a nation of laws, people are not put back into prison because the regime is offended by their words.
> 
> Remember, you are a thug who shits on the Constitution and the concept of law.
Click to expand...


No, they didn't. They did not receive the MANDATORY minimum sentence for their crime.

Now, I'm more than happy to have a discussion on mandatory minimum sentences...but it is a separate issue.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Double jeopardy is a prohibition against trying a person twice for the same crime. Not changing their sentence. Sentences are changed all the time, plea bargains thrown out, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you're saying is that the federal thugs are sending men to prison with no charges and no trial?
Click to expand...


You're obviously confused. The Hammonds were charged, tried and convicted.



> Sentences are NOT changed after the completion of the sentence and release of the prisoners. The Hammond's are political prisoners of the criminal Obama regime.



Sure they are. Especially when the cases are still being appealed. See Pollard V. US. Pollard was released on parole. And the appeals court found that the lower court released him in error. So back to prison Pollard went.

In the Hammond case, the appeals court found that the lower court hadn't applied statutory mandatory minimums when they should have, and that the Hammonds were released in error.  So, just like Pollard, back to prison the Hammonds went.

Remember, and I can't stress this point enough:_ you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. _


----------



## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> Look little illiterate cocksuck, were you to read my previous statements, you would know that I oppose the nonsense sentence of terrorism the Hammond's are serving. You would also know that I think that the Bundy's fully deserve that sentence, and more.
> 
> If you are going to reply to people, reply to what they said, not to what you wish they had said. You cannot just shoehorn everybody into your idiotic world of all black and all white.



LOL;

Poor sucks old cocks, you get so emotional. Perhaps a Midol would help?

Regardless of the charge, the fact is the Hammond's served the legally proscribed sentence handed down by the presiding judge. For the 9th to impose additional penalty after their release, and promoted by political activism on their part is an outrage to any person who supports the notion of law and  justice - which of course excludes you and your fellow leftists.

The Hammond's served their sentence, for the thugs of the 9th to try and take them now is an act of kidnapping and terrorism by the 9th.


----------



## Old Rocks

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Double jeopardy is a prohibition against trying a person twice for the same crime. Not changing their sentence. Sentences are changed all the time, plea bargains thrown out, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you're saying is that the federal thugs are sending men to prison with no charges and no trial?
> 
> Sentences are NOT changed after the completion of the sentence and release of the prisoners. The Hammond's are political prisoners of the criminal Obama regime.
> 
> In America, the party cannot put people in prison because they don't like them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammonds themselves requested that the USSC reduce their sentence. Something that would be legally impossible if your pseudo-legal nonsense was actually true.
> 
> Remember, you don't actually know what you're talking about. Nor have the slightest clue what the terms you're using actually mean.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Hammond's served their entire sentence. In a nation of laws, people are not put back into prison because the regime is offended by their words.
> 
> Remember, you are a thug who shits on the Constitution and the concept of law.
Click to expand...

LOL. The Hammond's are prisoners of a poorly written law mandating minimum sentences. Since the law was passed because of some fruitloop eco-terrorists, you almost certainly supported it. It is unjust in this case, and should not have been applied. But it's application was perfectly legal in all aspects. All too often perfectly legal has nothing to do with justice. 

Now idiots like you are trying to make it into a case against the President and government. The law pre-dates 2008, and its unjust enforcement is a matter for the courts. The Bundy's are taking the focus away from that, and actually hurting the Hammod's, not that they give a damn.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Seawytch said:


> No, they didn't. They did not receive the MANDATORY minimum sentence for their crime.



The judge in the case ruled that the minimum was unjust and sentenced to two years, which they served and were released on. 

Sentence complete. Despite your idiot Comrade's bullshit, jeopardy DOES attach, which was the argument of the defense when the federal judge initially engaged in his terrorist attempt to kidnap the Hammond's as response to their anti-government statements after release (the reason for their fear to say anything that might upset the criminal Obama regime now.) The 9th circuit ruled "fuck the constitution, these are enemies of the party and the people." (They worded is differently, but that is the gist of it..)



> Now, I'm more than happy to have a discussion on mandatory minimum sentences...but it is a separate issue.



I believe that Bundy is acting in a way contrary to a reasonable outcome, but the federal government are terrorists which does limit the actions in response to their terrorism.


----------



## charwin95

koshergrl said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
Click to expand...


That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.

Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation


----------



## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> LOL. The Hammond's are prisoners of a poorly written law mandating minimum sentences. Since the law was passed because of some fruitloop eco-terrorists, you almost certainly supported it. It is unjust in this case, and should not have been applied. But it's application was perfectly legal in all aspects. All too often perfectly legal has nothing to do with justice.
> 
> Now idiots like you are trying to make it into a case against the President and government. The law pre-dates 2008, and its unjust enforcement is a matter for the courts. The Bundy's are taking the focus away from that, and actually hurting the Hammod's, not that they give a damn.



Comrade;

What sentence did the presiding judge in the Hammond's trial hand down?

Did the Hammond's serve that sentence? Yes, or no?


----------



## Borillar

Staidhup said:


> So when the Black Lives or Occupy gang seize public property for their little protest are they then considered domestic terrorists for occupying public property? Or is it your insatiable thirst for that kool-aid?


When the Occupy or BLM movements start showing up armed to the teeth in order to intimidate, I'll put them right up there too.


----------



## Brain357

Uncensored2008 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. The Hammond's are prisoners of a poorly written law mandating minimum sentences. Since the law was passed because of some fruitloop eco-terrorists, you almost certainly supported it. It is unjust in this case, and should not have been applied. But it's application was perfectly legal in all aspects. All too often perfectly legal has nothing to do with justice.
> 
> Now idiots like you are trying to make it into a case against the President and government. The law pre-dates 2008, and its unjust enforcement is a matter for the courts. The Bundy's are taking the focus away from that, and actually hurting the Hammod's, not that they give a damn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade;
> 
> What sentence did the presiding judge in the Hammond's trial hand down?
> 
> Did the Hammond's serve that sentence? Yes, or no?
Click to expand...


Are they convicted criminals yes or no?

Should gangs start doing similar things to get gang bangers lighter sentences?


----------



## koshergrl

Brain357 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. The Hammond's are prisoners of a poorly written law mandating minimum sentences. Since the law was passed because of some fruitloop eco-terrorists, you almost certainly supported it. It is unjust in this case, and should not have been applied. But it's application was perfectly legal in all aspects. All too often perfectly legal has nothing to do with justice.
> 
> Now idiots like you are trying to make it into a case against the President and government. The law pre-dates 2008, and its unjust enforcement is a matter for the courts. The Bundy's are taking the focus away from that, and actually hurting the Hammod's, not that they give a damn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade;
> 
> What sentence did the presiding judge in the Hammond's trial hand down?
> 
> Did the Hammond's serve that sentence? Yes, or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they convicted criminals yes or no?
> 
> Should gangs start doing similar things to get gang bangers lighter sentences?
Click to expand...

 
Wtf? How does that even follow, you nut?


----------



## Brain357

koshergrl said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. The Hammond's are prisoners of a poorly written law mandating minimum sentences. Since the law was passed because of some fruitloop eco-terrorists, you almost certainly supported it. It is unjust in this case, and should not have been applied. But it's application was perfectly legal in all aspects. All too often perfectly legal has nothing to do with justice.
> 
> Now idiots like you are trying to make it into a case against the President and government. The law pre-dates 2008, and its unjust enforcement is a matter for the courts. The Bundy's are taking the focus away from that, and actually hurting the Hammod's, not that they give a damn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade;
> 
> What sentence did the presiding judge in the Hammond's trial hand down?
> 
> Did the Hammond's serve that sentence? Yes, or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they convicted criminals yes or no?
> 
> Should gangs start doing similar things to get gang bangers lighter sentences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wtf? How does that even follow, you nut?
Click to expand...


They are using guns to try to get these criminals a shorter sentence.  Would you support gangs doing the same thing?


----------



## koshergrl

Brain357 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. The Hammond's are prisoners of a poorly written law mandating minimum sentences. Since the law was passed because of some fruitloop eco-terrorists, you almost certainly supported it. It is unjust in this case, and should not have been applied. But it's application was perfectly legal in all aspects. All too often perfectly legal has nothing to do with justice.
> 
> Now idiots like you are trying to make it into a case against the President and government. The law pre-dates 2008, and its unjust enforcement is a matter for the courts. The Bundy's are taking the focus away from that, and actually hurting the Hammod's, not that they give a damn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade;
> 
> What sentence did the presiding judge in the Hammond's trial hand down?
> 
> Did the Hammond's serve that sentence? Yes, or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they convicted criminals yes or no?
> 
> Should gangs start doing similar things to get gang bangers lighter sentences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wtf? How does that even follow, you nut?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are using guns to try to get these criminals a shorter sentence.  Would you support gangs doing the same thing?
Click to expand...

 
Nonsense. The Hammonds are already in jail, they reported themselves. The protesters occupied a public building that wasn't being used. They're moving in and out of the building, going to the store, hanging out with the locals. They haven't stolen anything, they haven't set fire to anything, they haven't hurt anybody. People are visiting them there. The only crime they're even thinking of charging them with is trespassing, and that's just a violation.


----------



## Tilly

Old Rocks said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> 
> If these were Oregon pot growers doing this - every single person here who is saying something negative - would be rooting for the pot growers.
> PERIOD.
> 
> 
> 
> If these were pot growers taking over a federal installation with guns, they would already be dead. Same rules should apply for these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not in Oregon they wouldn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My, my, another outsider trying tell me how the people in my state do things. You know, there is a reason that more people are moving to Oregon than to any other state.
Click to expand...

Another 'outsider'. Lol. You're really not doing Oregon any favours with your constant small minded nonsense about AMERICANS. And yet you want to invite in an unvettable bunch of actual 'outsiders', some of whom are likely jihadi savages of Islam.  You are a total joke.


----------



## Tilly

Old Rocks said:


> Kosher is flat out lying. The Sheriff, and the City Council have both stated that they don't want the militia there, and that most of the people there don't want them there.


What would you expect the sheriff and the city council to say? Lol.


----------



## Uncensored2008

charwin95 said:


> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation



The Hammond's fear to say anything that could offend the regime. They were given three years in prison for speaking in opposition to the criminal regime and know that anything they say could mean prison time. 

The only thing the Hammond's are going to say is "Yessah massah obama sirs, weez goan be gud and dooz wats yoo beez telling us massah."


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> You're obviously confused. The Hammonds were charged, tried and convicted.



Sentenced, completed their sentence and released.

Under the laws of the old republic, that is where it stops, unless a new crime with a new trial occurs.




> Sure they are. Especially when the cases are still being appealed. See Pollard V. US. Pollard was released on parole. And the appeals court found that the lower court released him in error. So back to prison Pollard went.
> 
> In the Hammond case, the appeals court found that the lower court hadn't applied statutory mandatory minimums when they should have, and that the Hammonds were released in error.  So, just like Pollard, back to prison the Hammonds went.
> 
> Remember, and I can't stress this point enough:_ you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. _



I understand that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and say what you think will help your party, rather than anything intelligent, but "parole" is an alternate form of serving a sentence. A Parolee is technically still incarcerated, you ignorant ditz. The Hammond's were not on parole, probation, or any other government oversight. They completed the legally mandated sentence of the presiding judge.

The federal government is engaging in terrorism and kidnapping, there is no legal justification for their acts.


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammond's fear to say anything that could offend the regime. They were given three years in prison for speaking in opposition to the criminal regime and know that anything they say could mean prison time.
> 
> The only thing the Hammond's are going to say is "Yessah massah obama sirs, weez goan be gud and dooz wats yoo beez telling us massah."
Click to expand...

 Exactly. They still have family living there, and the BLM is unscrupulous and dangerous.


----------



## Skylar

Borillar said:


> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when the Black Lives or Occupy gang seize public property for their little protest are they then considered domestic terrorists for occupying public property? Or is it your insatiable thirst for that kool-aid?
> 
> 
> 
> When the Occupy or BLM movements start showing up armed to the teeth in order to intimidate, I'll put them right up there too.
Click to expand...


I'm still chuckling at the absurdity of angry, armed white guys from out of state invading a county and enforcing their views with threats of force....

...because they want the local people to decide for themselves what to do.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're obviously confused. The Hammonds were charged, tried and convicted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sentenced, completed their sentence and released.
> 
> Under the laws of the old republic, that is where it stops, unless a new crime with a new trial occurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure they are. Especially when the cases are still being appealed. See Pollard V. US. Pollard was released on parole. And the appeals court found that the lower court released him in error. So back to prison Pollard went.
> 
> In the Hammond case, the appeals court found that the lower court hadn't applied statutory mandatory minimums when they should have, and that the Hammonds were released in error.  So, just like Pollard, back to prison the Hammonds went.
> 
> Remember, and I can't stress this point enough:_ you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and say what you think will help your party, rather than anything intelligent, but "parole" is an alternate form of serving a sentence. A Parolee is technically still incarcerated, you ignorant ditz. The Hammond's were not on parole, probation, or any other government oversight. They completed the legally mandated sentence of the presiding judge.
Click to expand...


And as Pollard demonstrates,* if the sentencing court is found to be in error their sentencing by an appellant court, those convicted can be called back to serve their correct sentences.*

Which is exactly what happened in Pollard. And exactly what  happened in Hammond. As usual, you ignore the law and the supreme court....and just make up whatever hapless pseudo-legal batshit you wish.

Laughing.....how's that working out for you?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Brain357 said:


> Are they convicted criminals yes or no?



Yes.



> Should gangs start doing similar things to get gang bangers lighter sentences?



Are you suggesting that gang bangers who complete a prison sentence should be put back in prison without charge or trial?

You Communists are some scary fucks. You show exactly how the STASI came about.


----------



## Brain357

Uncensored2008 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are they convicted criminals yes or no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Should gangs start doing similar things to get gang bangers lighter sentences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you suggesting that gang bangers who complete a prison sentence should be put back in prison without charge or trial?
> 
> You Communists are some scary fucks. You show exactly how the STASI came about.
Click to expand...


Why are you supporting criminals?  Just because they are rich and white?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> And as Pollard demonstrates,* if the sentencing court is in error by a higher court, those convicted can be called back to serve their correct sentences.*




No, you're a stupid fuck with no idea what you are talking about. Pollard was released on parole, the parole was revoked. 

You have no grasp of the concepts behind the words you use.



> Which is exactly what happened in Pollard. And exactly what  happened in Hammond. As usual, you ignore the law and the supreme court....and just make up whatever hapless pseudo-legal batshit you wish.
> 
> Laughing.....how's that working out for you?



So the Hammond's were on parole, retard?


----------



## Brain357

koshergrl said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. The Hammond's are prisoners of a poorly written law mandating minimum sentences. Since the law was passed because of some fruitloop eco-terrorists, you almost certainly supported it. It is unjust in this case, and should not have been applied. But it's application was perfectly legal in all aspects. All too often perfectly legal has nothing to do with justice.
> 
> Now idiots like you are trying to make it into a case against the President and government. The law pre-dates 2008, and its unjust enforcement is a matter for the courts. The Bundy's are taking the focus away from that, and actually hurting the Hammod's, not that they give a damn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade;
> 
> What sentence did the presiding judge in the Hammond's trial hand down?
> 
> Did the Hammond's serve that sentence? Yes, or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they convicted criminals yes or no?
> 
> Should gangs start doing similar things to get gang bangers lighter sentences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wtf? How does that even follow, you nut?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are using guns to try to get these criminals a shorter sentence.  Would you support gangs doing the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. The Hammonds are already in jail, they reported themselves. The protesters occupied a public building that wasn't being used. They're moving in and out of the building, going to the store, hanging out with the locals. They haven't stolen anything, they haven't set fire to anything, they haven't hurt anybody. People are visiting them there. The only crime they're even thinking of charging them with is trespassing, and that's just a violation.
Click to expand...


The FBI is wasting time on these turds that could be spent finding terrorists.  Schools were shut down.  Why they need guns?  Other protests don't.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Brain357 said:


> Why are you supporting criminals?  Just because they are rich and white?



If someone is given a ticket for jay walking, pays the fine, and goes on with life; you support the feds throwing them in prison for 10 years with the claim that the fine was insufficient?

You Communists are some evil fucks.

In the free nation that you fight so hard to destroy, once the sentence was complete, the debt to society was paid.

Now you scum view people as property of the state, to be disposed of as the rulers of the state see fit, so the concept of rights is one you simply cannot grasp.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Brain357 said:


> The FBI is wasting time on these turds that could be spent finding terrorists.  Schools were shut down.  Why they need guns?  Other protests don't.



Do you think Lord Obama should order a drone strike on them?


----------



## Uncensored2008

koshergrl said:


> Exactly. They still have family living there, and the BLM is unscrupulous and dangerous.



The entire Obama regime is. All checks and balances have been discarded.


----------



## Brain357

Uncensored2008 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you supporting criminals?  Just because they are rich and white?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If someone is given a ticket for jay walking, pays the fine, and goes on with life; you support the feds throwing them in prison for 10 years with the claim that the fine was insufficient?
> 
> You Communists are some evil fucks.
> 
> In the free nation that you fight so hard to destroy, once the sentence was complete, the debt to society was paid.
> 
> Now you scum view people as property of the state, to be disposed of as the rulers of the state see fit, so the concept of rights is one you simply cannot grasp.
Click to expand...


There are min sentence laws that weren't followed.  Guess they shouldn't have chosen to be criminals.


----------



## Brain357

Uncensored2008 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI is wasting time on these turds that could be spent finding terrorists.  Schools were shut down.  Why they need guns?  Other protests don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think Lord Obama should order a drone strike on them?
Click to expand...


I hope it ends with nobody being hurt.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Brain357 said:


> There are min sentence laws that weren't followed.  Guess they shouldn't have chosen to be criminals.



That was the decision of the judge, who has the power to do so, The most the regime can constitutionally do is censure the original judges. Putting people in prison after the fact is double jeopardy. 

The Hammond's are being put in jeopardy a second time for the same crime. The is terrorism perpetrated by the federal government.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as Pollard demonstrates,* if the sentencing court is in error by a higher court, those convicted can be called back to serve their correct sentences.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you're a stupid fuck with no idea what you are talking about. Pollard was released on parole, the parole was revoked.
Click to expand...


Pollard was found to have been sentenced in error by an appellant court. He was sentenced to a suspended sentenced and 3 years probation. The appealant court found that the sentence was in error *and overturned the sentence*, insisting that Pollard had to serve his full term in jail in accordance to the statutory sentencing requirements.
*
Something you insist they could never do under your comic misunderstanding of double jeapordy. *But something the USSC found perfectly constitutional. As applying the *correct* sentencing requirements per the law is something the appellant court can do.

Which is *exactly* what the appellant court did with Hammond. Finding that the lower court had not applied the proper sentencing requirements. *They overturned the sentence,* insisting the Hammonds had to serve the full term in prison in accordance with the statutory re sentencing requirements.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.



> Which is exactly what happened in Pollard. And exactly what  happened in Hammond. As usual, you ignore the law and the supreme court....and just make up whatever hapless pseudo-legal batshit you wish.
> 
> Laughing.....how's that working out for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the Hammond's were on parole, retard?
Click to expand...


Um, shit-stain...*even the Hammond's themselves aren't arguing that the resentencing is double jeopardy. *But that the longer sentence was 'cruel and unusual punishment'. The only person making this claim is you, citing yourself. And you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

And yet, in your ignorance you insist that *you* know the law better than BOTH the Supreme Court and the 9th circuit court of appeals?

With the Hammond's both in federal prison, how's you citing you working out for you, dipshit?


----------



## Brain357

Uncensored2008 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are min sentence laws that weren't followed.  Guess they shouldn't have chosen to be criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was the decision of the judge, who has the power to do so, The most the regime can constitutionally do is censure the original judges. Putting people in prison after the fact is double jeopardy.
> 
> The Hammond's are being put in jeopardy a second time for the same crime. The is terrorism perpetrated by the federal government.
Click to expand...


It is obviously legal.  They shouldn't have chosen to be criminals.  Stop supporting criminals.


----------



## Camp

Brain357 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you supporting criminals?  Just because they are rich and white?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If someone is given a ticket for jay walking, pays the fine, and goes on with life; you support the feds throwing them in prison for 10 years with the claim that the fine was insufficient?
> 
> You Communists are some evil fucks.
> 
> In the free nation that you fight so hard to destroy, once the sentence was complete, the debt to society was paid.
> 
> Now you scum view people as property of the state, to be disposed of as the rulers of the state see fit, so the concept of rights is one you simply cannot grasp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are min sentence laws that weren't followed.  Guess they shouldn't have chosen to be criminals.
Click to expand...

Nothing having to do with that court case or those convicted gives anyone the right to take over a public facility at the point of a gun. Some random criminals have taken over property owned and paid for by American taxpayers and are riding around in and on vehicles owned by taxpayers and living in facilities owned by taxpayers. They are doing it not by invitation or with permission. They are doing it by force of arms and the threat of violence. They need to be put into jail cells when and if this can be ended without violence.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> Pollard was found to have been sentenced in error by an appellant court. He was sentenced to a suspended sentenced and 3 years probation. The appealant court found that the sentence was in error *and overturned the sentence*, insisting that Pollard had to serve his full term in jail in accordance to the statutory sentencing requirements.



Are you lying, or just stupid?

Pollard was legally incarcerated. Parole is the condition of being in the custody of the state. Pollard was not free, the Hammods were.

The Hammond's are being placed in jeopardy of life and limb a second time for the same crime.
*



			Something you insist they could never do under your comic misunderstanding of double jeapordy.
		
Click to expand...

*


> But something the USSC found perfectly constitutional. As applying the *correct* sentencing requirements per the law is something the appellant court can do.
> 
> Which is *exactly* what the appellant court did with Hammond. Finding that the lower court had not applied the proper sentencing requirements. *They overturned the sentence,* insisting the Hammonds had to serve the full term in prison in accordance with the statutory re sentencing requirements.
> 
> You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is exactly what happened in Pollard. And exactly what  happened in Hammond. As usual, you ignore the law and the supreme court....and just make up whatever hapless pseudo-legal batshit you wish.
> 
> Laughing.....how's that working out for you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the Hammond's were on parole, retard?
Click to expand...

[/quote]
Um, shit-stain...*even the Hammond's themselves aren't arguing that the resentencing is double jeopardy. *But that the longer sentence was 'cruel and unusual punishment'. The only person making this claim is you, citing yourself. And you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

And yet, in your ignorance you insist that *you* know the law better than BOTH the Supreme Court and the 9th circuit court of appeals?

With the Hammond's both in federal prison, how's you citing you working out for you, dipshit?[/QUOTE]

Again, you have no fucking clue what your talking about. 

I suspect that the SCOTUS will overturn the travesty of Obama's pet 9th - provided the current ration of 5 constitutionalists remains to the 4 leftists.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are min sentence laws that weren't followed.  Guess they shouldn't have chosen to be criminals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was the decision of the judge, who has the power to do so, The most the regime can constitutionally do is censure the original judges. Putting people in prison after the fact is double jeopardy.
Click to expand...


Again, higher courts can overturn the sentences of lower courts if they find those courts sentence wasn't in accordance with the statutory sentencing requirements.

In Pollard v. US, Pollard was sentenced to a suspended sentence and 3 years probation. A higher court overturned that sentence and sentenced him instead to a prison term. Which the USSC found perfectly constitutional. 

If a higher court can't overturn a sentence of a lower court....how did this happen in Pollard?

Simple: You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. 



> The Hammond's are being put in jeopardy a second time for the same crime. The is terrorism perpetrated by the federal government.



Even the Hammonds aren't arguing double jeaprody. You're just offering us your imagination of what you think the law is, and seem confused that the courts are following the actual law rather than your pseudo-legal gibberish.

Get used to being confused.


----------



## Camp

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as Pollard demonstrates,* if the sentencing court is in error by a higher court, those convicted can be called back to serve their correct sentences.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you're a stupid fuck with no idea what you are talking about. Pollard was released on parole, the parole was revoked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pollard was found to have been sentenced in error by an appellant court. He was sentenced to a suspended sentenced and 3 years probation. The appealant court found that the sentence was in error *and overturned the sentence*, insisting that Pollard had to serve his full term in jail in accordance to the statutory sentencing requirements.
> *
> Something you insist they could never do under your comic misunderstanding of double jeapordy. *But something the USSC found perfectly constitutional. As applying the *correct* sentencing requirements per the law is something the appellant court can do.
> 
> Which is *exactly* what the appellant court did with Hammond. Finding that the lower court had not applied the proper sentencing requirements. *They overturned the sentence,* insisting the Hammonds had to serve the full term in prison in accordance with the statutory re sentencing requirements.
> 
> You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which is exactly what happened in Pollard. And exactly what  happened in Hammond. As usual, you ignore the law and the supreme court....and just make up whatever hapless pseudo-legal batshit you wish.
> 
> Laughing.....how's that working out for you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the Hammond's were on parole, retard?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, shit-stain...*even the Hammond's themselves aren't arguing that the resentencing is double jeopardy. *But that the longer sentence was 'cruel and unusual punishment'. The only person making this claim is you, citing yourself. And you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
> 
> And yet, in your ignorance you insist that *you* know the law better than BOTH the Supreme Court and the 9th circuit court of appeals?
> 
> With the Hammond's both in federal prison, how's you citing you working out for you, dipshit?
Click to expand...

A little drawn out and long, but an impressive bitch slap.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> Again, higher courts can overturn the sentences of lower courts if they find those courts sentence wasn't in accordance with the statutory sentencing requirements.
> 
> In Pollard v. US, Pollard was sentenced to a suspended sentence and 3 years probation. A higher court overturned that sentence and sentenced him instead to a prison term. Which the USSC found perfectly constitutional.
> 
> If a higher court can't overturn a sentence of a lower court....how did this happen in Pollard?
> 
> Simple: You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.



AGAIN retard, Pollard was still a prisoner. The SCOTUS upheld reversing the SUSPENSION of the sentence he was serving. 

I don't know if you're lying or really this stupid. Either way, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pollard was found to have been sentenced in error by an appellant court. He was sentenced to a suspended sentenced and 3 years probation. The appealant court found that the sentence was in error *and overturned the sentence*, insisting that Pollard had to serve his full term in jail in accordance to the statutory sentencing requirements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you lying, or just stupid?
> 
> Pollard was legally incarcerated. Parole is the condition of being in the custody of the state. Pollard was not free, the Hammods were.
Click to expand...


Pollard was sentenced to a suspended sentence and 3 years probation. That sentence was overturned by a higher court. Something you insist a higher court can't do. But the USSC found to be perfectly constitutional.

As the USSC, the 9th circuit court of appeal, and the Hammond's actually being in prison demonstrate......you're fucking clueless. And your pseudo-legal gibberish has no relevance to the outcome of any case.



> I suspect that the SCOTUS will overturn the travesty of Obama's pet 9th - provided the current ration of 5 constitutionalists remains to the 4 leftists.



*The USSC already turned down Hammond's appeal of the 9th circuit court ruiling . *Demostrating that 'what you suspect' means jack shit, as you have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> A little drawn out and long, but an impressive bitch slap.



I take it you would support a situation where a man in his 20's was convicted of shoplifting, given 6 months in prison, then released. 30 years later he protests against an action by Obama, so a federal judge orders him to 10 years of prison on the shoplifting charge, arguing the original sentence was too light?

Is this what you of the left see as the "brave new world?" 

If so, the Bundy is correct and we no longer are a nation of law.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

These guys masquerade a “patriot” groups but there is nothing patriotic about treason and armed rebellion. These guys aren’t champions of liberty. They’re champions of free stuff for themselves, and that free stuff happens to be other peoples’ property, whether Native tribes or the American people: you and me.


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> A little drawn out and long, but an impressive bitch slap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you would support a situation where a man in his 20's was convicted of shoplifting, given 6 months in prison, then released. 30 years later he protests against an action by Obama, so a federal judge orders him to 10 years of prison on the shoplifting charge, arguing the original sentence was too light?
> 
> Is this what you of the left see as the "brave new world?"
> 
> If so, the Bundy is correct and we no longer are a nation of law.
Click to expand...

You are distorting and misrepresenting the case being discussed. You want it to be something it is not. Whether you or I agree or not in regards to the fairness of the case and sentencing is irrelevant to the situation where armed thugs have taken over taxpayer-owned property at the point of a gun and threat of violence. You are for domestic terrorism or against it, that is what the topic narrows down to.


----------



## Tilly

charwin95 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
Click to expand...

On their lawyers advice, of course.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> A little drawn out and long, but an impressive bitch slap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you would support a situation where a man in his 20's was convicted of shoplifting, given 6 months in prison, then released. 30 years later he protests against an action by Obama, so a federal judge orders him to 10 years of prison on the shoplifting charge, arguing the original sentence was too light?
> 
> Is this what you of the left see as the "brave new world?"
> 
> If so, the Bundy is correct and we no longer are a nation of law.
Click to expand...

You still haven't learned about accurate analogies, have you?


----------



## bodecea

Tilly said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
Click to expand...

So, their lawyers are in on it too?


----------



## Tilly

Camp said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> A little drawn out and long, but an impressive bitch slap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you would support a situation where a man in his 20's was convicted of shoplifting, given 6 months in prison, then released. 30 years later he protests against an action by Obama, so a federal judge orders him to 10 years of prison on the shoplifting charge, arguing the original sentence was too light?
> 
> Is this what you of the left see as the "brave new world?"
> 
> If so, the Bundy is correct and we no longer are a nation of law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are distorting and misrepresenting the case being discussed. You want it to be something it is not. Whether you or I agree or not in regards to the fairness of the case and sentencing is irrelevant to the situation where armed thugs have taken over taxpayer-owned property at the point of a gun and threat of violence. You are for domestic terrorism or against it, that is what the topic narrows down to.
Click to expand...

At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.


----------



## Seawytch

Tilly said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> A little drawn out and long, but an impressive bitch slap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you would support a situation where a man in his 20's was convicted of shoplifting, given 6 months in prison, then released. 30 years later he protests against an action by Obama, so a federal judge orders him to 10 years of prison on the shoplifting charge, arguing the original sentence was too light?
> 
> Is this what you of the left see as the "brave new world?"
> 
> If so, the Bundy is correct and we no longer are a nation of law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are distorting and misrepresenting the case being discussed. You want it to be something it is not. Whether you or I agree or not in regards to the fairness of the case and sentencing is irrelevant to the situation where armed thugs have taken over taxpayer-owned property at the point of a gun and threat of violence. You are for domestic terrorism or against it, that is what the topic narrows down to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.
Click to expand...


Are you denying that these yokels are armed?


----------



## koshergrl

Tilly said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
Click to expand...

 Their "rejection" was simply a statement that he didn't speak for them.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, their lawyers are in on it too?
Click to expand...

 
What do you even mean, Toad? Do you know? "In on" what, exactly?


----------



## Tilly

Seawytch said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> A little drawn out and long, but an impressive bitch slap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you would support a situation where a man in his 20's was convicted of shoplifting, given 6 months in prison, then released. 30 years later he protests against an action by Obama, so a federal judge orders him to 10 years of prison on the shoplifting charge, arguing the original sentence was too light?
> 
> Is this what you of the left see as the "brave new world?"
> 
> If so, the Bundy is correct and we no longer are a nation of law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are distorting and misrepresenting the case being discussed. You want it to be something it is not. Whether you or I agree or not in regards to the fairness of the case and sentencing is irrelevant to the situation where armed thugs have taken over taxpayer-owned property at the point of a gun and threat of violence. You are for domestic terrorism or against it, that is what the topic narrows down to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you denying that these yokels are armed?
Click to expand...

Are you incapable of understanding the written word?


----------



## Tilly

bodecea said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, their lawyers are in on it too?
Click to expand...

Doubtful. Lawyers regularly advise their clients. You know that, don't you?


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> AGAIN retard, Pollard was still a prisoner. The SCOTUS upheld reversing the SUSPENSION of the sentence he was serving.
> 
> I don't know if you're lying or really this stupid. Either way, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.



Again, shit-stain....you don't know what you're talking about. Once again, I'm gonna educate you. Here's the summary of the decision from the USSC:



> After petitioner had pleaded guilty to a federal offense and had left the courtroom, the District Court entered judgment suspending sentence and placed petitioner on probation for three years. Nearly two years later, in 1954, upon petitioner's arrest for violation of probation, the District Court entered a formal judgment and commitment sentencing petitioner to 2 years' imprisonment and setting aside the earlier judgment and order.
> 
> FindLaw's United States Supreme Court case and opinions.



In 1952 Pollard had been RELEASED on probation *after his sentence was suspended by the District Court judge.* It wasn't until two years later that he was arrested on a probation violation that the his original sentence was overturned in 1954. And he was given prison time rather than a suspended sentence.

His original sentence was overturned by a higher court in 1954.  And here's what the USSC had to say about that:



			
				Pollard v. US said:
			
		

> 3. The 1954 sentence did not violate the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Fifth Amendment. Pp. 359-361.



AFTER Pollard's release his original sentence was overturned. *Something you insist can't be done. *You're insisting that the original sentence MUST be followed. And the USSC found the opposite. That no, there is no such requirement. That even YEARS later, if the original sentence was found to be in errror, a correct sentence can be issued.

Exactly as occured in Hammond's case. Which might explain why:

1) The Hammond's never argued double jeopardy, despite your hysteric, panty shitting insistence it was.

2) The Supreme Court already rejected the Hammond appeal of the 9th circuit court's decision..

And no, they didn't uphold his suspended sentence. *The upheld the 1954 resentencing that sent Polland to prison until 1956* and affirmed that Polland 'must lose on the merits'. 

Once again, shit stain....you don't know what you;'re talking about.


----------



## SassyIrishLass




----------



## charwin95

Uncensored2008 said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammond's fear to say anything that could offend the regime. They were given three years in prison for speaking in opposition to the criminal regime and know that anything they say could mean prison time.
> 
> The only thing the Hammond's are going to say is "Yessah massah obama sirs, weez goan be gud and dooz wats yoo beez telling us massah."
Click to expand...


Dude..... Your brain is messed up. Since when a POTUS dictate every court decisions about crimes such as arson? Do you have a proof Obama is involved in this case?


----------



## Tilly

*Outside Patriot Groups Are Warming Up To The Bundy Siege In Oregon*

The takeover of a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon by armed anti-government extremists Saturday was initially a step too far for some other hard-right patriot groups. But with the occupiers, led by Ammon Bundy, commanding national media attention for much of the week, their once-skeptical fellow travelers have started to come around. 

It's a subtle shift, but* in interviews this week some of the most strident extremist critics of the move on the refuge have conceded that the publicity the action has produced is helpful to their cause. And some of the critics have even gotten in on the action, claiming to act as back channels for communications among the armed occupiers, law enforcement, and the local community.
*
Outside Patriot Groups Are Warming Up To The Bundy Siege In Oregon


----------



## Agit8r

TyroneSlothrop said:


> the authorities should pretend they are Negroes ..............



Or terror suspects in Yemen.


----------



## Agit8r

Hutch Starskey said:


> View attachment 58990



The only Mormon I've seen that needed a snack was Shawn Bradley


----------



## Agit8r

Luddly Neddite said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 58990
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering the Hammonds set the fires to cover up their poaching, the crybabies should be more than willing to poach their snacks.
> 
> The refuge is the result of the feds bailing out failed ranchers in 1934 and now these yahoos 'want the land back'?
> 
> These welfare ranchers get bail out money every every single year and now they've got their hands out for more.
> 
> And they're vandalizing and stealing from the site. Typical RWNJs traitors.
Click to expand...


To say nothing of a half million dollar subsidized SBA loan...


----------



## Tilly

Maybe the longer this lasts, the more the locals are supporting them?

Earlier in the week, groups like the Three Percenters Club Oregon and the Oath Keepers posted statements condemning the decision to occupy the refuge center in Oregon after a demonstration protesting the federal jail sentence facing two local ranchers, Dwight and Steven Hammond. While members of those groups were involved in organizing the protest that preceded the occupation of the refuge, they decried occupiers' tactics in the immediate aftermath and claimed they were unaware of the plans to make a stand at the refuge.

*But now, while they still say it was not a part of the original plan to take over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, they agree with the occupiers’ message and even appreciate the attention the siege is bringing to the grievances they have against the federal government*


----------



## koshergrl

Tilly said:


> *Outside Patriot Groups Are Warming Up To The Bundy Siege In Oregon*
> 
> The takeover of a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon by armed anti-government extremists Saturday was initially a step too far for some other hard-right patriot groups. But with the occupiers, led by Ammon Bundy, commanding national media attention for much of the week, their once-skeptical fellow travelers have started to come around.
> 
> It's a subtle shift, but* in interviews this week some of the most strident extremist critics of the move on the refuge have conceded that the publicity the action has produced is helpful to their cause. And some of the critics have even gotten in on the action, claiming to act as back channels for communications among the armed occupiers, law enforcement, and the local community.
> *
> Outside Patriot Groups Are Warming Up To The Bundy Siege In Oregon





Tilly said:


> Maybe the longer this lasts, the more the locals are supporting them?
> 
> Earlier in the week, groups like the Three Percenters Club Oregon and the Oath Keepers posted statements condemning the decision to occupy the refuge center in Oregon after a demonstration protesting the federal jail sentence facing two local ranchers, Dwight and Steven Hammond. While members of those groups were involved in organizing the protest that preceded the occupation of the refuge, they decried occupiers' tactics in the immediate aftermath and claimed they were unaware of the plans to make a stand at the refuge.
> 
> *But now, while they still say it was not a part of the original plan to take over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, they agree with the occupiers’ message and even appreciate the attention the siege is bringing to the grievances they have against the federal government*


 That's what I keep hearing.


----------



## charwin95

Tilly said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
Click to expand...


So far I have not seen a proof from KG or you that the locals or the Hammond are thrilled that they are getting attention because of these assholes.


----------



## Tilly

koshergrl said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Outside Patriot Groups Are Warming Up To The Bundy Siege In Oregon*
> 
> The takeover of a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon by armed anti-government extremists Saturday was initially a step too far for some other hard-right patriot groups. But with the occupiers, led by Ammon Bundy, commanding national media attention for much of the week, their once-skeptical fellow travelers have started to come around.
> 
> It's a subtle shift, but* in interviews this week some of the most strident extremist critics of the move on the refuge have conceded that the publicity the action has produced is helpful to their cause. And some of the critics have even gotten in on the action, claiming to act as back channels for communications among the armed occupiers, law enforcement, and the local community.
> *
> Outside Patriot Groups Are Warming Up To The Bundy Siege In Oregon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the longer this lasts, the more the locals are supporting them?
> 
> Earlier in the week, groups like the Three Percenters Club Oregon and the Oath Keepers posted statements condemning the decision to occupy the refuge center in Oregon after a demonstration protesting the federal jail sentence facing two local ranchers, Dwight and Steven Hammond. While members of those groups were involved in organizing the protest that preceded the occupation of the refuge, they decried occupiers' tactics in the immediate aftermath and claimed they were unaware of the plans to make a stand at the refuge.
> 
> *But now, while they still say it was not a part of the original plan to take over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, they agree with the occupiers’ message and even appreciate the attention the siege is bringing to the grievances they have against the federal government*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what I keep hearing.
Click to expand...

I think the libturds are hugely disappointed that these guys have not perpetrated any violence, and that the authorities are holding back, not cutting off their utilities, allowing their supporters to show up with food, and even allowing them to go grocery shopping.  I suspect that the longer things stay this way, the greater the chance their support they will grow.


----------



## Tilly

charwin95 said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far I have not seen a proof from KG or you that the locals or the Hammond are thrilled that they are getting attention because of these assholes.
Click to expand...

Do some reading like everyone else.


----------



## skye

I am all for the Bundys. They are on the right.

But they have to tread really carefully.....with Hussein wanting to ban guns,  and all that... not the most perfect timing....you know what I'm saying?

And whatever they do...they should not  fire the first shot.

I'm sure cooler heads will prevail.


----------



## koshergrl

ClosedCaption said:


> Guns?  No problem
> Threats?  Big Deal
> Arson?  Controlled burn lol
> 
> Man, its funny to see the same bunch who cry at every protest be the same ones to defend shit like Arson by calling it a "controlled burn".  How was it controlled?  LOL


 Could you be more ridiculous, please?


----------



## koshergrl

charwin95 said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far I have not seen a proof from KG or you that the locals or the Hammond are thrilled that they are getting attention because of these assholes.
Click to expand...

 
You haven't seen proof that the locals are "calling for their removal", either.


----------



## Agit8r

bullwinkle said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I just read the official court document:
> 
> "The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations. After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> "The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires. Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed. The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby. The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons."
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agit8, thank you for posting the official charges and witness accounts.  I wondered about the specific of the charges.  I also know that the northwest is very serious about fires, especially forest fires.  I am assuming the Hammonds are aware of that even more than a Michigander like me.  And they at least surrendered peacefully, for which I applaud them.
Click to expand...


Wildfires are a considerable problem here, yes. Doubly a problem for those with respiratory disorders.


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guns?  No problem
> Threats?  Big Deal
> Arson?  Controlled burn lol
> 
> Man, its funny to see the same bunch who cry at every protest be the same ones to defend shit like Arson by calling it a "controlled burn".  How was it controlled?  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Could you be more ridiculous, please?
Click to expand...


I can.  That CVS in Baltimore was a controlled burn too


----------



## koshergrl

Agit8r said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guns?  No problem
> Threats?  Big Deal
> Arson?  Controlled burn lol
> 
> Man, its funny to see the same bunch who cry at every protest be the same ones to defend shit like Arson by calling it a "controlled burn".  How was it controlled?  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Could you be more ridiculous, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can.  That CVS in Baltimore was a controlled burn too
Click to expand...

 Really, you don't understand land management issues, so you should abstain from exposing your ignorance.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Agit8r said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 58990
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only Mormon I've seen that needed a snack was Shawn Bradley
Click to expand...



The old fart who was sitting in a rocking chair in the middle of the road is a morm with 11 kids.


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guns?  No problem
> Threats?  Big Deal
> Arson?  Controlled burn lol
> 
> Man, its funny to see the same bunch who cry at every protest be the same ones to defend shit like Arson by calling it a "controlled burn".  How was it controlled?  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Could you be more ridiculous, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can.  That CVS in Baltimore was a controlled burn too
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, you don't understand land management issues, so you should abstain from exposing your ignorance.
Click to expand...


Really? Maybe you should abstain from discussions on law and criminality.  I grew up in the boondocks. From a very young age, I was aware that going onto property that wasn't yours and f~cking it up was wrong and illegal.  And yet people like yourself have reached the age of majority without ever attaining this moral sense. Pathetic.


----------



## koshergrl

Agit8r said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guns?  No problem
> Threats?  Big Deal
> Arson?  Controlled burn lol
> 
> Man, its funny to see the same bunch who cry at every protest be the same ones to defend shit like Arson by calling it a "controlled burn".  How was it controlled?  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Could you be more ridiculous, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can.  That CVS in Baltimore was a controlled burn too
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, you don't understand land management issues, so you should abstain from exposing your ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Maybe you should abstain from discussions on law and criminality.  I grew up in the boondocks. From a very young age, I was aware that going onto property that wasn't yours and f~cking it up was wrong and illegal.  And yet people like yourself have reached the age of majority without ever attaining this moral sense. Pathetic.
Click to expand...

 
As I said, you're clueless about the land use issues. Ranchers and the BLM entered into a cooperative method of dealing with wildfires and other issues..and the BLM totally ignored the legislation that THEY HELPED TO CRAFT that allows for a cooperative approach to things like fire management and property access and use.

The Hammonds fires were perfectly normal and killed only sagebrush and juniper...and juniper is an invasive species. Ranchers and property owners all over the place engage in the same practices, with the same results. As a matter of fact, the BLM and the Forest Service have done exponentially MORE damage to PRIVATE property with their methods...yet property owners have no redress against them when they light fires that eat up fences, pasture, livestock, and structures. The loony fire fighter who set a fire intentionally, because she was "bored"...a fire that ate up tens of thousands of BLM land...received a sentence of 13 months.

The judge and the jury who originally heard the case recognized that the minimum sentence was against all good sense, and in fact would be cruel and unusual punishment for such a minor issue. The Hammonds SERVED THE TIME THEY WERE GIVEN. You cannot be dragged back to jail after you have already served your sentence. They weren't released early or anything like that..they were sentenced, they served their sentence, and they are done.

But the BLM and our criminal administration don't care about the law. They want to own Oregon. And they might own it eventually. But they'll have to kill or imprison a lot of people before that happens.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Agit8r said:


> bullwinkle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I just read the official court document:
> 
> "The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.” One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations. After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> "The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires. Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed. The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby. The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons."
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Agit8, thank you for posting the official charges and witness accounts.  I wondered about the specific of the charges.  I also know that the northwest is very serious about fires, especially forest fires.  I am assuming the Hammonds are aware of that even more than a Michigander like me.  And they at least surrendered peacefully, for which I applaud them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wildfires are a considerable problem here, yes. Doubly a problem for those with respiratory disorders.
Click to expand...



Now its a problem for the Hammond's too. 

Bet they'll think twice next time they want to cover up their poaching but that doesn't mean the domestic terrorists should be given land for nothing.


----------



## Agit8r

Luddly Neddite said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 58990
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only Mormon I've seen that needed a snack was Shawn Bradley
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The old fart who was sitting in a rocking chair in the middle of the road is a morm with 11 kids.
Click to expand...


What are those kids gonna do when he goes to the clink and the gov wants his half million dollar SBA loan back? Sad


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guns?  No problem
> Threats?  Big Deal
> Arson?  Controlled burn lol
> 
> Man, its funny to see the same bunch who cry at every protest be the same ones to defend shit like Arson by calling it a "controlled burn".  How was it controlled?  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Could you be more ridiculous, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can.  That CVS in Baltimore was a controlled burn too
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, you don't understand land management issues, so you should abstain from exposing your ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Maybe you should abstain from discussions on law and criminality.  I grew up in the boondocks. From a very young age, I was aware that going onto property that wasn't yours and f~cking it up was wrong and illegal.  And yet people like yourself have reached the age of majority without ever attaining this moral sense. Pathetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I said, you're clueless about the land use issues.
Click to expand...


I know what a controlled burn is.  They happened nearby where I grew up every few years.  They were never prescribed to cover up poaching activities.


----------



## koshergrl

Agit8r said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you be more ridiculous, please?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can.  That CVS in Baltimore was a controlled burn too
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, you don't understand land management issues, so you should abstain from exposing your ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Maybe you should abstain from discussions on law and criminality.  I grew up in the boondocks. From a very young age, I was aware that going onto property that wasn't yours and f~cking it up was wrong and illegal.  And yet people like yourself have reached the age of majority without ever attaining this moral sense. Pathetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I said, you're clueless about the land use issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know what a controlled burn is.  They happened nearby where I grew up every few years.  They were never prescribed to cover up poaching activities.
Click to expand...

 And they weren't in this instance, either.


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can.  That CVS in Baltimore was a controlled burn too
> 
> 
> 
> Really, you don't understand land management issues, so you should abstain from exposing your ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Maybe you should abstain from discussions on law and criminality.  I grew up in the boondocks. From a very young age, I was aware that going onto property that wasn't yours and f~cking it up was wrong and illegal.  And yet people like yourself have reached the age of majority without ever attaining this moral sense. Pathetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I said, you're clueless about the land use issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know what a controlled burn is.  They happened nearby where I grew up every few years.  They were never prescribed to cover up poaching activities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And they weren't in this instance, either.
Click to expand...


Except that the prosecution's witnesses swore under oath that they were.


----------



## koshergrl

Agit8r said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really, you don't understand land management issues, so you should abstain from exposing your ignorance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Maybe you should abstain from discussions on law and criminality.  I grew up in the boondocks. From a very young age, I was aware that going onto property that wasn't yours and f~cking it up was wrong and illegal.  And yet people like yourself have reached the age of majority without ever attaining this moral sense. Pathetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I said, you're clueless about the land use issues.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know what a controlled burn is.  They happened nearby where I grew up every few years.  They were never prescribed to cover up poaching activities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And they weren't in this instance, either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except that the prosecution's witnesses swore under oath that they were.
Click to expand...

The prosectution's witness was a 13 y.o. boy with mental problems, whose testimony was rejected by the presiding judge.


----------



## koshergrl

Agit8r said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 58990
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only Mormon I've seen that needed a snack was Shawn Bradley
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The old fart who was sitting in a rocking chair in the middle of the road is a morm with 11 kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are those kids gonna do when he goes to the clink and the gov wants his half million dollar SBA loan back? Sad
Click to expand...

 They've already paid back half of the half million in FINES that was leveled against them.


----------



## Uncensored2008

charwin95 said:


> So far I have not seen a proof from KG or you that the locals or the Hammond are thrilled that they are getting attention because of these assholes.



I'll tell you what, if at some point in the future I make such a claim, I'll be sure to support it.

The Hammond's are political prisoners of a criminal regime, they want to make as few waves as possible in hopes of someday being freed.


----------



## Uncensored2008

skye said:


> I am all for the Bundys. They are on the right.
> 
> But they have to tread really carefully.....with Hussein wanting to ban guns,  and all that... not the most perfect timing....you know what I'm saying?
> 
> And whatever they do...they should not  fire the first shot.
> 
> I'm sure cooler heads will prevail.



I still expect the emperor with no brains to launch a drone strike on them.


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 58990
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only Mormon I've seen that needed a snack was Shawn Bradley
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The old fart who was sitting in a rocking chair in the middle of the road is a morm with 11 kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are those kids gonna do when he goes to the clink and the gov wants his half million dollar SBA loan back? Sad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They've already paid back half of the half million in FINES that was leveled against them.
Click to expand...


Who?


----------



## Uncensored2008

charwin95 said:


> Dude..... Your brain is messed up. Since when a POTUS dictate every court decisions about crimes such as arson? Do you have a proof Obama is involved in this case?



When the Hammond's finished their prison sentence and were released in accordance to the law, they began agitating against the BLM. Quickly after that the KGB kidnapped them and the courts imposed prison terms for crimes they had already served their sentence on. Obviously they were on Obama's enemies list and he sicked his dogs on them.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Agit8r said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guns?  No problem
> Threats?  Big Deal
> Arson?  Controlled burn lol
> 
> Man, its funny to see the same bunch who cry at every protest be the same ones to defend shit like Arson by calling it a "controlled burn".  How was it controlled?  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Could you be more ridiculous, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can.  That CVS in Baltimore was a controlled burn too
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, you don't understand land management issues, so you should abstain from exposing your ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Maybe you should abstain from discussions on law and criminality.  I grew up in the boondocks. From a very young age, I was aware that going onto property that wasn't yours and f~cking it up was wrong and illegal.  And yet people like yourself have reached the age of majority without ever attaining this moral sense. Pathetic.
Click to expand...



A link I posted earlier had a bit about the yee-hadists are vandalizing and stealing from the site. One of them asked a journalist if they wanted a souvenir.


----------



## charwin95

JimBowie1958 said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
Click to expand...


Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself. 

Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison

EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands. 

A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.

The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.

The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.

Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice


----------



## Seawytch

Tilly said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> A little drawn out and long, but an impressive bitch slap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you would support a situation where a man in his 20's was convicted of shoplifting, given 6 months in prison, then released. 30 years later he protests against an action by Obama, so a federal judge orders him to 10 years of prison on the shoplifting charge, arguing the original sentence was too light?
> 
> Is this what you of the left see as the "brave new world?"
> 
> If so, the Bundy is correct and we no longer are a nation of law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are distorting and misrepresenting the case being discussed. You want it to be something it is not. Whether you or I agree or not in regards to the fairness of the case and sentencing is irrelevant to the situation where armed thugs have taken over taxpayer-owned property at the point of a gun and threat of violence. You are for domestic terrorism or against it, that is what the topic narrows down to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you denying that these yokels are armed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you incapable of understanding the written word?
Click to expand...


When it's in English, yes. What were you questioning?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 58990
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only Mormon I've seen that needed a snack was Shawn Bradley
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The old fart who was sitting in a rocking chair in the middle of the road is a morm with 11 kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are those kids gonna do when he goes to the clink and the gov wants his half million dollar SBA loan back? Sad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They've already paid back half of the half million in FINES that was leveled against them.
Click to expand...



What about the millions owed in grazing fees?

They already get tax subsidies and ow they're demanding the land be given to them for free. 

Very funny is that it was the US govt who bailed failed ranchers out in 1934 and formed the refuge. 

If YOU want land, YOU have to pay for it and the feds aren't going to give you tax subsidies. Why should they get money from tax payers?

RWNJs want tax payers to subsidize WallyWorld and others who won't pay their help and I think that's wrong.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 58990
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only Mormon I've seen that needed a snack was Shawn Bradley
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The old fart who was sitting in a rocking chair in the middle of the road is a morm with 11 kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are those kids gonna do when he goes to the clink and the gov wants his half million dollar SBA loan back? Sad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They've already paid back half of the half million in FINES that was leveled against them.
Click to expand...



LINK??

Just once, back up your statement with FACTS.


----------



## Arianrhod

Ammon Bundy took out $530,000 federal loan - CNN.com


----------



## B. Kidd

charwin95 said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
Click to expand...


A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Agit8r said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 58990
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only Mormon I've seen that needed a snack was Shawn Bradley
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The old fart who was sitting in a rocking chair in the middle of the road is a morm with 11 kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What are those kids gonna do when he goes to the clink and the gov wants his half million dollar SBA loan back? Sad
Click to expand...



BTW, Ammon Bundy borrowed something like $240K from the federal government he says he hates. 

Now he doesn't want to pay it back. 

The Bundy's are just welfare queens - to the tune of millions of dollars.


----------



## Tilly

Seawytch said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you would support a situation where a man in his 20's was convicted of shoplifting, given 6 months in prison, then released. 30 years later he protests against an action by Obama, so a federal judge orders him to 10 years of prison on the shoplifting charge, arguing the original sentence was too light?
> 
> Is this what you of the left see as the "brave new world?"
> 
> If so, the Bundy is correct and we no longer are a nation of law.
> 
> 
> 
> You are distorting and misrepresenting the case being discussed. You want it to be something it is not. Whether you or I agree or not in regards to the fairness of the case and sentencing is irrelevant to the situation where armed thugs have taken over taxpayer-owned property at the point of a gun and threat of violence. You are for domestic terrorism or against it, that is what the topic narrows down to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you denying that these yokels are armed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you incapable of understanding the written word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When it's in English, yes. What were you questioning?
Click to expand...

It is in English. Do you have comprehension problems?


----------



## Camp

This is all about deciding how taxpayer property is going to be used. The old timer traditional cattle ranchers want to continue the tradition and the 21rst Century proponents are ready to value the lands for something more than massive feed lots for ranchers living in the 19th and 20th century. The rhetoric about freedom and the constitution are just being used as covers for desperate old guys trying to hang on to the past and demanding the taxpayers support and subsidize them.


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Outside Patriot Groups Are Warming Up To The Bundy Siege In Oregon*
> 
> The takeover of a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon by armed anti-government extremists Saturday was initially a step too far for some other hard-right patriot groups. But with the occupiers, led by Ammon Bundy, commanding national media attention for much of the week, their once-skeptical fellow travelers have started to come around.
> 
> It's a subtle shift, but* in interviews this week some of the most strident extremist critics of the move on the refuge have conceded that the publicity the action has produced is helpful to their cause. And some of the critics have even gotten in on the action, claiming to act as back channels for communications among the armed occupiers, law enforcement, and the local community.
> *
> Outside Patriot Groups Are Warming Up To The Bundy Siege In Oregon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the longer this lasts, the more the locals are supporting them?
> 
> Earlier in the week, groups like the Three Percenters Club Oregon and the Oath Keepers posted statements condemning the decision to occupy the refuge center in Oregon after a demonstration protesting the federal jail sentence facing two local ranchers, Dwight and Steven Hammond. While members of those groups were involved in organizing the protest that preceded the occupation of the refuge, they decried occupiers' tactics in the immediate aftermath and claimed they were unaware of the plans to make a stand at the refuge.
> 
> *But now, while they still say it was not a part of the original plan to take over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, they agree with the occupiers’ message and even appreciate the attention the siege is bringing to the grievances they have against the federal government*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what I keep hearing.
Click to expand...

on FB?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> This is all about deciding how taxpayer property is going to be used. The old timer traditional cattle ranchers want to continue the tradition and the 21rst Century proponents are ready to value the lands for something more than massive feed lots for ranchers living in the 19th and 20th century. The rhetoric about freedom and the constitution are just being used as covers for desperate old guys trying to hang on to the past and demanding the taxpayers support and subsidize them.



Yeth, those ranchers should raise Quinoa and Tofu anyway...

Say Camp, you are occasionally lucid, by what Constitutional authority does the federal government own 92% of the land in the west anyway?


----------



## Camp

Tilly said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are distorting and misrepresenting the case being discussed. You want it to be something it is not. Whether you or I agree or not in regards to the fairness of the case and sentencing is irrelevant to the situation where armed thugs have taken over taxpayer-owned property at the point of a gun and threat of violence. You are for domestic terrorism or against it, that is what the topic narrows down to.
> 
> 
> 
> At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you denying that these yokels are armed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you incapable of understanding the written word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When it's in English, yes. What were you questioning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is in English. Do you have comprehension problems?
Click to expand...

We speak American in America. It is a dialect that confuses some from the island where the original language came from.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> This is all about deciding how taxpayer property is going to be used. The old timer traditional cattle ranchers want to continue the tradition and the 21rst Century proponents are ready to value the lands for something more than massive feed lots for ranchers living in the 19th and 20th century. The rhetoric about freedom and the constitution are just being used as covers for desperate old guys trying to hang on to the past and demanding the taxpayers support and subsidize them.


No, it's really not. It's about the BLM illegally seizing and destroying property, and throwing people in jail if they complain. It's about them entering into cooperative management with land owners, and then immediately and illegally seeking to block those land owners from accessing their own properties. It's about them failing to adhere to the legislation that THEY HELPED CRAFT setting down rules and guidelines for responsibilities and interactions between the BLM and private land owners. They ignore the letter and the intent of the law...then selectively persecute private owners for violations of the LETTER of the law in total and complete violation of the spirit of the laws that were especially crafted for land management in this region.


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## Agit8r

B. Kidd said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
Click to expand...


The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.


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## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is all about deciding how taxpayer property is going to be used. The old timer traditional cattle ranchers want to continue the tradition and the 21rst Century proponents are ready to value the lands for something more than massive feed lots for ranchers living in the 19th and 20th century. The rhetoric about freedom and the constitution are just being used as covers for desperate old guys trying to hang on to the past and demanding the taxpayers support and subsidize them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeth, those ranchers should raise Quinoa and Tofu anyway...
> 
> Say Camp, you are occasionally lucid, by what Constitutional authority does the federal government own 92% of the land in the west anyway?
Click to expand...

Some, even many will survive if they learn to adjust and adapt, but not on cheap leased federal lands. Face it, most of these old ranches have been dependent on cheap leased lands from the taxpayers. Each year that property becomes more and more valuable for other purposes and less valuable for cattle ranching.


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## B. Kidd

Agit8r said:


> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
Click to expand...


And............?........that gives them credibility?


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## MaryL

saveliberty said:


> Good to see the media is giving them all the attention they want...


Who cares? They aren't inciting riots based on exaggerated racial claims like the black lives movement. And didn't the liberal media that created an backlash against cops  then warn against an anti Muslim backlash after Muslim terrorism attacks, those same blokes? Who's side is the media on, anyway?


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## Seawytch

Tilly said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are distorting and misrepresenting the case being discussed. You want it to be something it is not. Whether you or I agree or not in regards to the fairness of the case and sentencing is irrelevant to the situation where armed thugs have taken over taxpayer-owned property at the point of a gun and threat of violence. You are for domestic terrorism or against it, that is what the topic narrows down to.
> 
> 
> 
> At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you denying that these yokels are armed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you incapable of understanding the written word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When it's in English, yes. What were you questioning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is in English. Do you have comprehension problems?
Click to expand...


Rube English isn't real English. 

You questioned that they were armed, did you not? They ARE armed. Are you okay with armed seditionists taking over Federal Buildings, yes or no?


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## koshergrl

Agit8r said:


> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
Click to expand...

 
The particular voice that demanded it be dragged into the ninth circus was a demented Obama appointee who has since been retired to the funny farm, after she approached a Mexican drug cartel member to kill a fellow bar member (that she had, incidentally, also been stalking).


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## Faun

Uncensored2008 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just shoot them already and end this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about their families? Should Obama's army kick in the doors of the homes of these infidels and kill their families as warning to others who might think to defy the living god who is our ruler?
Click to expand...

You're confusing Obama with Trump. Its Trump who said he wants to punish the families of the infidels.


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## Tilly

Seawytch said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that these yokels are armed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you incapable of understanding the written word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When it's in English, yes. What were you questioning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is in English. Do you have comprehension problems?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rube English isn't real English.
> 
> You questioned that they were armed, did you not? They ARE armed. Are you okay with armed seditionists taking over Federal Buildings, yes or no?
Click to expand...

I didn't question 'if they were armed'. This is what I said:
'At the point of a gun?_ The buildings were empty of people_.'
Maybe English isn't your first language? I've italicised a part in the hope, however remote, that this will help you with your comprehension.


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## SassyIrishLass

In the grand scheme of all the issues facing this nation who really gives a phuck if some disgruntled ranchers occupied a vacant building? Stupid


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## Tilly

Seawytch said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that these yokels are armed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you incapable of understanding the written word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When it's in English, yes. What were you questioning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is in English. Do you have comprehension problems?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rube English isn't real English.
Click to expand...

Rube isn't a language, period. Duhhhhh. Lol.


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## Tilly

Seawytch said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you denying that these yokels are armed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you incapable of understanding the written word?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When it's in English, yes. What were you questioning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is in English. Do you have comprehension problems?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rube English isn't real English.
> 
> You questioned that they were armed, did you not? They ARE armed. Are you okay with armed seditionists taking over Federal Buildings, yes or no?
Click to expand...

I don't think they'd get very far if they weren't armed, do you?


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## NYcarbineer

skye said:


> I am all for the Bundys. They are on the right.
> 
> But they have to tread really carefully.....with Hussein wanting to ban guns,  and all that... not the most perfect timing....you know what I'm saying?
> 
> And whatever they do...they should not  fire the first shot.
> 
> I'm sure cooler heads will prevail.



The Bundynut brains are already at room temperature.


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## NYcarbineer

The best of this story:

*Oregon 'terrorists' don't plan siege very well, put out plea for snacks and supplies*

*Oregon 'terrorists' don't plan siege very well, put out desperate plea for snacks*

lol, they're calling out for snacks and energy drinks.  Sounds like a gamer's plea from his mom's basement.

And of course it prompted some excellent parody...

...my favorite:

http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





and more...

please send snacks - Google Search


----------



## HappyJoy

Also, why don't they just go to the store?  Nobody is stopping them.


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## Luddly Neddite

Arianrhod said:


> Ammon Bundy took out $530,000 federal loan - CNN.com



Thanks for posting the correct amount. 

It would be nice if he actually had to pay it back. They don't pay back the tax-payer-funded subsidy.


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## Luddly Neddite

koshergrl said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Allie....when can we be expecting an answer as to who owned that land before the Feds?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As well as what peach174 said -
> 
> Feds holding and leasing BLM land is not abuse, but taking land that belongs to ranchers that holds deeds is.
> 
> This is a claim I have never heard before but I'm sure that peach174 will be along any minute now with a link.
> 
> Just like koshergrl will post links to her claim that this is not about getting use of land for free.
> 
> Right?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How ridiculous. Everybody else knows what the issue is....if you are too stupid to read the material please do everybody a favor and quit wasting bandwidth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you're wrong and you know it.
> 
> Gotta go but if you can come up with some proof of your claim _"They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control."_ (whatever THAT means!), by all means post it.
> 
> Prove that the land was stolen from the welfare ranchers.
> 
> Same to peach174
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Still no facts from koshergrl or peach174
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've posted reams of facts, names, and history. You're too stupid to read, and that's not my problem. Back on ignore you go, loser.
Click to expand...



No koshergrl you have not.

You just spew opinions and pretend they're facts.


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## Tilly

Luddly Neddite said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ClosedCaption said:
> 
> 
> 
> Guns?  No problem
> Threats?  Big Deal
> Arson?  Controlled burn lol
> 
> Man, its funny to see the same bunch who cry at every protest be the same ones to defend shit like Arson by calling it a "controlled burn".  How was it controlled?  LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Could you be more ridiculous, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can.  That CVS in Baltimore was a controlled burn too
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, you don't understand land management issues, so you should abstain from exposing your ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Maybe you should abstain from discussions on law and criminality.  I grew up in the boondocks. From a very young age, I was aware that going onto property that wasn't yours and f~cking it up was wrong and illegal.  And yet people like yourself have reached the age of majority without ever attaining this moral sense. Pathetic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A link I posted earlier had a bit about the yee-hadists are vandalizing and stealing from the site. One of them asked a journalist if they wanted a souvenir.
Click to expand...

Which the journalist stated he'd paid for before offering.


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## Camp

HappyJoy said:


> Also, why don't they just go to the store?  Nobody is stopping them.


The law enforcement folks have them on ignore.


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## HappyJoy




----------



## koshergrl

Luddly Neddite said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> As well as what peach174 said -
> 
> Feds holding and leasing BLM land is not abuse, but taking land that belongs to ranchers that holds deeds is.
> 
> This is a claim I have never heard before but I'm sure that peach174 will be along any minute now with a link.
> 
> Just like koshergrl will post links to her claim that this is not about getting use of land for free.
> 
> Right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How ridiculous. Everybody else knows what the issue is....if you are too stupid to read the material please do everybody a favor and quit wasting bandwidth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you're wrong and you know it.
> 
> Gotta go but if you can come up with some proof of your claim _"They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control."_ (whatever THAT means!), by all means post it.
> 
> Prove that the land was stolen from the welfare ranchers.
> 
> Same to peach174
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Still no facts from koshergrl or peach174
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've posted reams of facts, names, and history. You're too stupid to read, and that's not my problem. Back on ignore you go, loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No koshergrl you have not.
> 
> You just spew opinions and pretend they're facts.
Click to expand...

I provide facts and you pretend they're opinions.


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is all about deciding how taxpayer property is going to be used. The old timer traditional cattle ranchers want to continue the tradition and the 21rst Century proponents are ready to value the lands for something more than massive feed lots for ranchers living in the 19th and 20th century. The rhetoric about freedom and the constitution are just being used as covers for desperate old guys trying to hang on to the past and demanding the taxpayers support and subsidize them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeth, those ranchers should raise Quinoa and Tofu anyway...
> 
> Say Camp, you are occasionally lucid, by what Constitutional authority does the federal government own 92% of the land in the west anyway?
Click to expand...

The Property Clause  Article lV  Section 3  Clause 2    
Before there was BLM, National Forest, National Parks, National Monuments, Wildlife Preserves and whatever,  we just called our property territory.


----------



## JimBowie1958

koshergrl said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> How ridiculous. Everybody else knows what the issue is....if you are too stupid to read the material please do everybody a favor and quit wasting bandwidth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IOW, you're wrong and you know it.
> 
> Gotta go but if you can come up with some proof of your claim _"They want the Fed's to surrender the property they stole to state control."_ (whatever THAT means!), by all means post it.
> 
> Prove that the land was stolen from the welfare ranchers.
> 
> Same to peach174
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Still no facts from koshergrl or peach174
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've posted reams of facts, names, and history. You're too stupid to read, and that's not my problem. Back on ignore you go, loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No koshergrl you have not.
> 
> You just spew opinions and pretend they're facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I provide facts and you pretend they're opinions.
Click to expand...

He's a libtard. That's what libtards do.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The particular voice that demanded it be dragged into the ninth circus was a demented Obama appointee who has since been retired to the funny farm, after she approached a Mexican drug cartel member to kill a fellow bar member (that she had, incidentally, also been stalking).
Click to expand...

Credible link?


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. The Hammond's are prisoners of a poorly written law mandating minimum sentences. Since the law was passed because of some fruitloop eco-terrorists, you almost certainly supported it. It is unjust in this case, and should not have been applied. But it's application was perfectly legal in all aspects. All too often perfectly legal has nothing to do with justice.
> 
> Now idiots like you are trying to make it into a case against the President and government. The law pre-dates 2008, and its unjust enforcement is a matter for the courts. The Bundy's are taking the focus away from that, and actually hurting the Hammod's, not that they give a damn.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade;
> 
> What sentence did the presiding judge in the Hammond's trial hand down?
> 
> Did the Hammond's serve that sentence? Yes, or no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are they convicted criminals yes or no?
> 
> Should gangs start doing similar things to get gang bangers lighter sentences?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wtf? How does that even follow, you nut?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are using guns to try to get these criminals a shorter sentence.  Would you support gangs doing the same thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. The Hammonds are already in jail, they reported themselves. The protesters occupied a public building that wasn't being used. They're moving in and out of the building, going to the store, hanging out with the locals. They haven't stolen anything, they haven't set fire to anything, they haven't hurt anybody. People are visiting them there. The only crime they're even thinking of charging them with is trespassing, and that's just a violation.
Click to expand...

Armed occupation of Federal Property is sedition. Considered a pretty serious crime.


----------



## Old Rocks

Tilly said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> A little drawn out and long, but an impressive bitch slap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you would support a situation where a man in his 20's was convicted of shoplifting, given 6 months in prison, then released. 30 years later he protests against an action by Obama, so a federal judge orders him to 10 years of prison on the shoplifting charge, arguing the original sentence was too light?
> 
> Is this what you of the left see as the "brave new world?"
> 
> If so, the Bundy is correct and we no longer are a nation of law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are distorting and misrepresenting the case being discussed. You want it to be something it is not. Whether you or I agree or not in regards to the fairness of the case and sentencing is irrelevant to the situation where armed thugs have taken over taxpayer-owned property at the point of a gun and threat of violence. You are for domestic terrorism or against it, that is what the topic narrows down to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the point of a gun? The buildings were empty of people.
Click to expand...

OK, you are away from your home, and someone move in with firearms, states they are going to shoot anyone that tries to remove them. But the buildings were empty of people when they moved in. That is absolutely the stupidest arguement I have ever heard. Are you mentally impaired?


----------



## charwin95

koshergrl said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far I have not seen a proof from KG or you that the locals or the Hammond are thrilled that they are getting attention because of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't seen proof that the locals are "calling for their removal", either.
Click to expand...


Read the entirety of this link and it tells you that hundreds of residents that attend town hall meeting rejecting these dudes. 

Tribe in Oregon blasts takeover
Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com


----------



## charwin95

Uncensored2008 said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude..... Your brain is messed up. Since when a POTUS dictate every court decisions about crimes such as arson? Do you have a proof Obama is involved in this case?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the Hammond's finished their prison sentence and were released in accordance to the law, they began agitating against the BLM. Quickly after that the KGB kidnapped them and the courts imposed prison terms for crimes they had already served their sentence on. Obviously they were on Obama's enemies list and he sicked his dogs on them.
Click to expand...


What KGB? Are you serious? Maybe the Mafia. Let me repeat the question.
Do you have a proof that POTUS directly involved in this case? Why would a POTUS even get involved with 2 arsonists? You are not making sense.


----------



## Camp

Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.

Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2

   "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."

The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.

The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.

annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3

heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause


----------



## charwin95

SassyIrishLass said:


> In the grand scheme of all the issues facing this nation who really gives a phuck if some disgruntled ranchers occupied a vacant building? Stupid



Stupid? Maybe you need to tell that these assholes like the gang leader Bundy. 
Who give a Phuck? For the subversive people that support this kind of lawlessness. Don't give a Phuck. But for the law abiding Americans do care. 
Taking over a building may it be a public or private property is a serious crime. Maybe you are talking about shoplifting?


----------



## TNHarley

Who else would you take your government frustrations out on? Civilians? Maybe block a freeway or mall?


----------



## Agit8r

B. Kidd said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And............?........that gives them credibility?
Click to expand...


The lunatic fringe always wants to act like this is coming straight from D.C.  As if Obama himself has been orchestrating the whole thing.  This is completely incorrect.  The U.S. attorneys are Oregonians, who prosecuted an Oregonian matter.  They have credibility, because they expect the mandatory minimums to apply to every offender equally.  On the other hand, people who think that mandatory minimums should not apply to the wealthy have a complete absence of credibility.


----------



## Camp

TNHarley said:


> Who else would you take your government frustrations out on? Civilians? Maybe block a freeway or mall?


We have constitutional methods of protest and even accept certain types of civil disobedience when protestor are willing to be arrested and accept justice as interpreted by the courts. The people in Oregon are not above the law and deserve no exemption from following the same laws and rules as everyone else.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause



Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
Click to expand...


Funny you think they aren't.


----------



## koshergrl

charwin95 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far I have not seen a proof from KG or you that the locals or the Hammond are thrilled that they are getting attention because of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't seen proof that the locals are "calling for their removal", either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the entirety of this link and it tells you that hundreds of residents that attend town hall meeting rejecting these dudes.
> 
> Tribe in Oregon blasts takeover
> Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com
Click to expand...

The Paiute got there in the 1700s. The blm is their enemy too, but they're so stupid and hateful they've forgotten.

At the meeting yesterday, the locals overwhelmingly expressed gratitude that Bundy had brought attention to the situation.Residents near Oregon standoff like militants' message, but still want them to leave the Oregonian, which has been ridiculing and running farcical memes about the situation, is trying really really hard to mislead the public by presenting the stories as if the locals are clamoring for the bundys to leave...but they aren't. Everybody applauds the attention the occupation has brought. They are visiting the refuge and the bundys by the dozens....bringing them supplies, praying with them, giving them support. They carefully couch their statements in terms that won't bring the law down on them, by saying they don't approve of trespass...but they ALL voice appreciation. The sheriff said he himself will escort them out of the county when they go.


----------



## bodecea

NYcarbineer said:


> The best of this story:
> 
> *Oregon 'terrorists' don't plan siege very well, put out plea for snacks and supplies*
> 
> *Oregon 'terrorists' don't plan siege very well, put out desperate plea for snacks*
> 
> lol, they're calling out for snacks and energy drinks.  Sounds like a gamer's plea from his mom's basement.
> 
> And of course it prompted some excellent parody...
> 
> ...my favorite:
> 
> 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> and more...
> 
> please send snacks - Google Search


We should send them these kinds of snacks:  32 Classic Japanese Snacks


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## TNHarley

Camp said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
Click to expand...

 we pay for it, we don't own it. We don't even really have private property here anymore. Lets be honest.


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## alpine




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## charwin95

B. Kidd said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
Click to expand...


Provide a link that the administration is directly involving this case? Since when a POTUS get involved with these 2 arsonists? What is Obama care has anything to do with this case? 
If you don't mind please answer my questions.


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## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
Click to expand...


Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail

You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want


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## charwin95

koshergrl said:


> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. they are just mad because judges sentenced a couple of arsonists. boo hoo
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The particular voice that demanded it be dragged into the ninth circus was a demented Obama appointee who has since been retired to the funny farm, after she approached a Mexican drug cartel member to kill a fellow bar member (that she had, incidentally, also been stalking).
Click to expand...


Do you have a link to support your claim? So far you have not provided any link that I requested.


----------



## bullwinkle

Camp said:


> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause


Camp, I am in complete agreement with you, but there is a report that Bundy is beginning to talk about abandoning the project, and I think the Sheriff is wise to not force a confrontation that could get out of hand, turning these dirtbags into martyrs.  The locals don't want them, and the Paiutes are condemning them, and it's cold out there and snacks get tiresome.  I'm pretty sure Bundy and his 'patriots' will turn up somewhere else, probably warmer and closer to better foods, womenfolk forward, of course!


----------



## Stephanie

Skull Pilot said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
Click to expand...


I don't recall when it was that liberals/lefties became such Fascist ? and they've build up so much hate for their own fellow countrymen and women. it's damn ugly though
all this over a gawddam BUILDING


----------



## BULLDOG

Skull Pilot said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
Click to expand...



I do it quite often. The counter area is closed, but the P.O. boxes are accessible.


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
Click to expand...

My Post Office is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Homeless people seeking shelter are not a problem in my town so the doors are not locked. I often go into the Post Office when the cashier counter is closed to check the PO Box or drop mail in the mail slots. They even have a stamp vending machine.


----------



## Skull Pilot

BULLDOG said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I do it quite often. The counter area is closed, but the P.O. boxes are accessible.
Click to expand...


I don't have a PO box so I can't get my mail from the building I own can I?

Why should I have to pay for a PO box in a building you say I own anyway?


----------



## OldLady

As long as they clean up after themselves and pay for any damage, I don't think they should be overly punished.  Fine 'em for trespass and be done with it.  The building wasn't being used for anything at the time, if I heard correctly, so it isn't disrupting anything but school, and that was a questionable decision, imo.  The fact that they don't seem to be attracting a lot of supporters will probably make them think twice about beginning the Revolution in another venue next month.


----------



## BULLDOG

Skull Pilot said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I do it quite often. The counter area is closed, but the P.O. boxes are accessible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't have a PO box so I can't get my mail from the building I own can I?
> 
> Why should I have to pay for a PO box in a building you say I own anyway?
Click to expand...



So WE don't have to pay someone to work there 24/7.


----------



## Skull Pilot

BULLDOG said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I do it quite often. The counter area is closed, but the P.O. boxes are accessible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't have a PO box so I can't get my mail from the building I own can I?
> 
> Why should I have to pay for a PO box in a building you say I own anyway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So WE don't have to pay someone to work there 24/7.
Click to expand...


Why do we have to pay people to work in a building we own?

If we own it we should all be able to walk in any time and have access to everything

We don't ergo we don't own it


----------



## Agit8r

charwin95 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The particular voice that demanded it be dragged into the ninth circus was a demented Obama appointee who has since been retired to the funny farm, after she approached a Mexican drug cartel member to kill a fellow bar member (that she had, incidentally, also been stalking).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to support your claim? So far you have not provided any link that I requested.
Click to expand...


Far right causes have been doing this since 2007.  They get support for their objectively unreasonable positions by insinuating that Obama himself is somehow involved in their supposed victimization.


----------



## BULLDOG

Somebody should send those militia nuts a copy of "Suppose They Gave A War, And Nobody Came"


----------



## Wry Catcher

Camp said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is all about deciding how taxpayer property is going to be used. The old timer traditional cattle ranchers want to continue the tradition and the 21rst Century proponents are ready to value the lands for something more than massive feed lots for ranchers living in the 19th and 20th century. The rhetoric about freedom and the constitution are just being used as covers for desperate old guys trying to hang on to the past and demanding the taxpayers support and subsidize them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeth, those ranchers should raise Quinoa and Tofu anyway...
> 
> Say Camp, you are occasionally lucid, by what Constitutional authority does the federal government own 92% of the land in the west anyway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Property Clause  Article lV  Section 3  Clause 2
> Before there was BLM, National Forest, National Parks, National Monuments, Wildlife Preserves and whatever,  we just called our property territory.
Click to expand...


We?  What did the Native American's call it?


----------



## BULLDOG

Skull Pilot said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I do it quite often. The counter area is closed, but the P.O. boxes are accessible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't have a PO box so I can't get my mail from the building I own can I?
> 
> Why should I have to pay for a PO box in a building you say I own anyway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So WE don't have to pay someone to work there 24/7.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do we have to pay people to work in a building we own?
> 
> If we own it we should all be able to walk in any time and have access to everything
> 
> We don't ergo we don't own it
Click to expand...



If you're that dumb, you wouldn't understand the answer anyway.


----------



## Camp

Stephanie said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't recall when it was that liberals/lefties became such Fascist ? and they've build up so much hate for their own fellow countrymen and women. it's damn ugly though
> all this over a gawddam BUILDING
Click to expand...

It is an old historical building built in the Great Depression and is the visitor center. Occupation by armed men prevents people from visiting the refuge. Why should we be providing utilities to these people? Plus, they are doing more than just occupying a building. They are using our ATV's, trucks, maintenance garage, tools, generators, fuel, etc. 
Does not wanting strangers to come live in your house when you go away for a weekend or holiday make you a fascist? Would you be angry when you came home and a bunch of guys with semi-auto rifles told you they liked your place and had decided to stay for awhile?


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> 
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far I have not seen a proof from KG or you that the locals or the Hammond are thrilled that they are getting attention because of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't seen proof that the locals are "calling for their removal", either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the entirety of this link and it tells you that hundreds of residents that attend town hall meeting rejecting these dudes.
> 
> Tribe in Oregon blasts takeover
> Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Paiute got there in the 1700s. The blm is their enemy too, but they're so stupid and hateful they've forgotten.
> 
> At the meeting yesterday, the locals overwhelmingly expressed gratitude that Bundy had brought attention to the situation.Residents near Oregon standoff like militants' message, but still want them to leave the Oregonian, which has been ridiculing and running farcical memes about the situation, is trying really really hard to mislead the public by presenting the stories as if the locals are clamoring for the bundys to leave...but they aren't. Everybody applauds the attention the occupation has brought. They are visiting the refuge and the bundys by the dozens....bringing them supplies, praying with them, giving them support. They carefully couch their statements in terms that won't bring the law down on them, by saying they don't approve of trespass...but they ALL voice appreciation. The sheriff said he himself will escort them out of the county when they go.
Click to expand...

Out of the county to the nearest Federal Pen. LOL


----------



## Weatherman2020

Camp said:


> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause


Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
More selective outrage.


----------



## koshergrl

charwin95 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A controlled burn is not arson, dumbass, and neither is it terrorism.
> 
> So you are OK with prosecuting people who started fires on their own land it land that they have used for more than 20 years, over a fire that was done over 15 years ago?
> 
> You are a special kind of fuck face twat, arent you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The particular voice that demanded it be dragged into the ninth circus was a demented Obama appointee who has since been retired to the funny farm, after she approached a Mexican drug cartel member to kill a fellow bar member (that she had, incidentally, also been stalking).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to support your claim? So far you have not provided any link that I requested.
Click to expand...

Oregon's top federal prosecutor traveled from commune to the corner office
UNBELIEVABLE Update - Oregon "Bundy Militia" Standoff - The U.S. Attorney At The Heart of The Hammond Family Problem...


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> 
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far I have not seen a proof from KG or you that the locals or the Hammond are thrilled that they are getting attention because of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't seen proof that the locals are "calling for their removal", either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the entirety of this link and it tells you that hundreds of residents that attend town hall meeting rejecting these dudes.
> 
> Tribe in Oregon blasts takeover
> Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Paiute got there in the 1700s. The blm is their enemy too, but they're so stupid and hateful they've forgotten.
> 
> At the meeting yesterday, the locals overwhelmingly expressed gratitude that Bundy had brought attention to the situation.Residents near Oregon standoff like militants' message, but still want them to leave the Oregonian, which has been ridiculing and running farcical memes about the situation, is trying really really hard to mislead the public by presenting the stories as if the locals are clamoring for the bundys to leave...but they aren't. Everybody applauds the attention the occupation has brought. They are visiting the refuge and the bundys by the dozens....bringing them supplies, praying with them, giving them support. They carefully couch their statements in terms that won't bring the law down on them, by saying they don't approve of trespass...but they ALL voice appreciation. The sheriff said he himself will escort them out of the county when they go.
Click to expand...

My, my, I am sure the Paiute appreciate your opinion. Kosher speaks for a very small minority here in Oregon. She should move to Nevada, where they think locos are normal.


----------



## koshergrl

charwin95 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far I have not seen a proof from KG or you that the locals or the Hammond are thrilled that they are getting attention because of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't seen proof that the locals are "calling for their removal", either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the entirety of this link and it tells you that hundreds of residents that attend town hall meeting rejecting these dudes.
> 
> Tribe in Oregon blasts takeover
> Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com
Click to expand...

Lol


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far I have not seen a proof from KG or you that the locals or the Hammond are thrilled that they are getting attention because of these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't seen proof that the locals are "calling for their removal", either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the entirety of this link and it tells you that hundreds of residents that attend town hall meeting rejecting these dudes.
> 
> Tribe in Oregon blasts takeover
> Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Paiute got there in the 1700s. The blm is their enemy too, but they're so stupid and hateful they've forgotten.
> 
> At the meeting yesterday, the locals overwhelmingly expressed gratitude that Bundy had brought attention to the situation.Residents near Oregon standoff like militants' message, but still want them to leave the Oregonian, which has been ridiculing and running farcical memes about the situation, is trying really really hard to mislead the public by presenting the stories as if the locals are clamoring for the bundys to leave...but they aren't. Everybody applauds the attention the occupation has brought. They are visiting the refuge and the bundys by the dozens....bringing them supplies, praying with them, giving them support. They carefully couch their statements in terms that won't bring the law down on them, by saying they don't approve of trespass...but they ALL voice appreciation. The sheriff said he himself will escort them out of the county when they go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My, my, I am sure the Paiute appreciate your opinion. Kosher speaks for a very small minority here in Oregon. She should move to Nevada, where they think locos are normal.
Click to expand...

Says the statist nutjob.


----------



## Camp

Weatherman2020 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
> More selective outrage.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I did not know they were armed and took over a federal facility. It has been my understanding that many of them were arrested and many had their possessions confiscated and destroyed when they refused to tear down their tents erected in city parks.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*we have exclusive video of the Oregon Patriots*


----------



## Camp

Wry Catcher said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is all about deciding how taxpayer property is going to be used. The old timer traditional cattle ranchers want to continue the tradition and the 21rst Century proponents are ready to value the lands for something more than massive feed lots for ranchers living in the 19th and 20th century. The rhetoric about freedom and the constitution are just being used as covers for desperate old guys trying to hang on to the past and demanding the taxpayers support and subsidize them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeth, those ranchers should raise Quinoa and Tofu anyway...
> 
> Say Camp, you are occasionally lucid, by what Constitutional authority does the federal government own 92% of the land in the west anyway?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Property Clause  Article lV  Section 3  Clause 2
> Before there was BLM, National Forest, National Parks, National Monuments, Wildlife Preserves and whatever,  we just called our property territory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We?  What did the Native American's call it?
Click to expand...

Home


----------



## Agit8r

koshergrl said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The particular voice that demanded it be dragged into the ninth circus was a demented Obama appointee who has since been retired to the funny farm, after she approached a Mexican drug cartel member to kill a fellow bar member (that she had, incidentally, also been stalking).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to support your claim? So far you have not provided any link that I requested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oregon's top federal prosecutor traveled from commune to the corner office
> UNBELIEVABLE Update - Oregon "Bundy Militia" Standoff - The U.S. Attorney At The Heart of The Hammond Family Problem...
Click to expand...


That's as local Oregon as it gets.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Camp said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
> More selective outrage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry, I did not know they were armed and took over a federal facility. It has been my understanding that many of them were arrested and many had their possessions confiscated and destroyed when they refused to tear down their tents erected in city parks.
Click to expand...

After months of taking over public facilities.  One Los Angeles park had 170 tons of garbage removed afterwards and the park was left destroyed by the Occupoopers.  Ocupoopers murdered and raped at their protests.


----------



## JimH52

Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com

The townspeople want the idiots to leave and the Indian tribe wants them to leave.  The Hammonds have said they want nothing to do with them.

AND THESE IDIOTS CONTINUE TO PLAY STUPID.  I have read their are criminals among them and the FBI is waiting for the right time to arrest them.


----------



## Moonglow

Some are the same losers that was with the standoff with another family member in 2014..


----------



## TNHarley

At least they aren't burning down the townfolks houses and businesses


----------



## koshergrl

Who cares what the government sellouts think. They got here like 100 years before we did, and the blm pushed them off too.


----------



## Moonglow

TNHarley said:


> At least they aren't burning down the townfolks houses and businesses


At least...They are tracking in mud and snow..


----------



## Camp

Hopefully, they will be convicted of crimes committed during this latest criminal venture that will prevent them from having their 2nd amendment right.
The only federal facilities these goons should be occupying are prison cells.


----------



## Iceweasel

Tell em to go play cowboys and indians.


----------



## Camp

Iceweasel said:


> Tell em to go play cowboys and indians.


It would be very easy to take out Bundy and his crew. They are in a wide open area perfect for snipers to pick them off one by one. Fact is, none of their opponents want violence or believes it is necessary.


----------



## TheOldSchool




----------



## bodecea

Everybody is laughing at them now.


----------



## ClosedCaption

Iceweasel said:


> Tell em to go play cowboys and indians.



Should be easy


----------



## Dot Com

Uncensored2008 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should just shoot them already and end this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about their families? Should Obama's army kick in the doors of the homes of these infidels and kill their families as warning to others who might think to defy the living god who is our ruler?
Click to expand...

ummmmm yes? Uncensored2008


----------



## Iceweasel

Camp said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell em to go play cowboys and indians.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be very easy to take out Bundy and his crew. They are in a wide open area perfect for snipers to pick them off one by one. Fact is, none of their opponents want violence or believes it is necessary.
Click to expand...

It was a goddamn joke. I should have included a disclaimer for you.


----------



## Eaglewings

I hope the true story comes out and that it will end peacefully.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

"Give me pork rinds or give me Dew, Mountain dew"


----------



## Dot Com

NYcarbineer said:


> lol, they're calling out for snacks and energy drinks.  Sounds like a gamer's plea from his mom's basement.



yep


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Camp

Iceweasel said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell em to go play cowboys and indians.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be very easy to take out Bundy and his crew. They are in a wide open area perfect for snipers to pick them off one by one. Fact is, none of their opponents want violence or believes it is necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was a goddamn joke. I should have included a disclaimer for you.
Click to expand...

Sorry, jokes and sarcasm don't always get recognized in print. Perhaps I responded to quickly.


----------



## bodecea

TheOldSchool said:


>


SNACKS!   Send us SNACKS!


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Dot Com

Old Rocks said:


> The Paiute got there in the 1700s. The blm is their enemy too, but they're so stupid and hateful they've forgotten.



racist much.  You just rw slimed an entire tribe.


----------



## TheOldSchool




----------



## Weatherman2020

Camp said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
> More selective outrage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry, I did not know they were armed and took over a federal facility. It has been my understanding that many of them were arrested and many had their possessions confiscated and destroyed when they refused to tear down their tents erected in city parks.
Click to expand...

Then you're just ignorant.


----------



## Camp

Weatherman2020 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
> More selective outrage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry, I did not know they were armed and took over a federal facility. It has been my understanding that many of them were arrested and many had their possessions confiscated and destroyed when they refused to tear down their tents erected in city parks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you're just ignorant.
Click to expand...

I am ignorant of the people you are comparing the armed thugs to having taken over government facilities while armed with semi-automatic weapons  or any weapon at all. Perhaps you could provide a link that would enlighten me?


----------



## charwin95

koshergrl said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude do you ever do your research before trashing people with your uncivilized attitude? I put this link for you so you do not embarrassed yourself.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison
> 
> EUGENE, Ore. – Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Dwight Hammond, 46, both residents of Diamond, Oregon in Harney County, were sentenced to five years in prison by Chief U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken for arsons they committed on federal lands.
> 
> A jury sitting in Pendleton, Oregon found the Hammonds guilty of the arsons after a two-week trial in June 2012.  The trial involved allegations that the Hammonds, owners of Hammond Ranches, Inc., ignited a series of fires on lands managed by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), on which the Hammonds had grazing rights leased to them for their cattle operation.
> 
> The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property.  Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”  One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson.  The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  After committing the arson, Steven Hammond called the BLM office in Burns, Oregon and claimed the fire was started on Hammond property to burn off invasive species and had inadvertently burned onto public lands.  Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.
> 
> The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area.  An August lightning storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires.  Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt save the ranch’s winter feed.  The fires burned onto public land and were seen by BLM firefighters camped nearby.  The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons.
> 
> Eastern Oregon Ranchers Convicted of Arson Resentenced to Five Years in Prison | USAO-OR | Department of Justice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The particular voice that demanded it be dragged into the ninth circus was a demented Obama appointee who has since been retired to the funny farm, after she approached a Mexican drug cartel member to kill a fellow bar member (that she had, incidentally, also been stalking).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to support your claim? So far you have not provided any link that I requested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oregon's top federal prosecutor traveled from commune to the corner office
> UNBELIEVABLE Update - Oregon "Bundy Militia" Standoff - The U.S. Attorney At The Heart of The Hammond Family Problem...
Click to expand...


So? The prosecutor is just doing her job. I see no problem there.


----------



## bodecea

Stephanie said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't recall when it was that liberals/lefties became such Fascist ? and they've build up so much hate for their own fellow countrymen and women. it's damn ugly though
> all this over a gawddam BUILDING
Click to expand...

It's so awful what they are doing to those poor people, isn't it?   

Um....what exactly are they doing to them besides laughing at them, Staphanie?


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My Post Office is open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Homeless people seeking shelter are not a problem in my town so the doors are not locked. I often go into the Post Office when the cashier counter is closed to check the PO Box or drop mail in the mail slots. They even have a stamp vending machine.
Click to expand...

Don't you love it when a RW analogy blows up in their face......happens a lot.


----------



## bravoactual

So, all the RWNJ  jumped to their feet and became all happy/clappy when Der Trumpenfuhrer said he would kill the families of MUSLIM TERRORISTS, when will the Facist Donnie demand the murder of families of TERRORISTS IN OREGON?


----------



## Weatherman2020

Camp said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
> More selective outrage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry, I did not know they were armed and took over a federal facility. It has been my understanding that many of them were arrested and many had their possessions confiscated and destroyed when they refused to tear down their tents erected in city parks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you're just ignorant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am ignorant of the people you are comparing the armed thugs to having taken over government facilities while armed with semi-automatic weapons  or any weapon at all. Perhaps you could provide a link that would enlighten me?
Click to expand...

Let me know when the Oregon group rapes, murders, arson, assaults and destroys public and private property like the Occupoopers did.


----------



## bravoactual

It's January, why didn't these Whack Jobs take over the Visitor's Center at Pearl Harbor?  At least they would not need socks.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Ammon Bundy...because dammit sometimes you feel like a nut..........*


----------



## Camp

Weatherman2020 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
> More selective outrage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry, I did not know they were armed and took over a federal facility. It has been my understanding that many of them were arrested and many had their possessions confiscated and destroyed when they refused to tear down their tents erected in city parks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you're just ignorant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am ignorant of the people you are comparing the armed thugs to having taken over government facilities while armed with semi-automatic weapons  or any weapon at all. Perhaps you could provide a link that would enlighten me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me know when the Oregon group rapes, murders, arson, assaults and destroys public and private property like the Occupoopers did.
Click to expand...

There really is no comparison between those two situations. You are attempting a lame and childish defense of claiming that because others are guilty of wrongdoing of some sort, the lawbreaking in Oregon is somehow justified. You are claiming your side should be forgiven and obtain permission to do something wrong because some other people did something wrong. It really doesn't matter what those occupy folks did when they had their protest. It is not related to this one in Oregon.


----------



## bodecea

Dot Com said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Paiute got there in the 1700s. The blm is their enemy too, but they're so stupid and hateful they've forgotten.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> racist much.  You just rw slimed an entire tribe.
Click to expand...

They're not white, they don't count apparently.


----------



## bodecea

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Ammon Bundy...because dammit sometimes you feel like a nut..........*


Ammon?  That name sounds suspiciously Mooslimy.


----------



## koshergrl

charwin95 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B. Kidd said:
> 
> 
> 
> A DOJ link? Are you kidding us? I guess you believe anything this Admin. tells you.........for example, if you like your doctor, than you can keep your doctor................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The particular voice that demanded it be dragged into the ninth circus was a demented Obama appointee who has since been retired to the funny farm, after she approached a Mexican drug cartel member to kill a fellow bar member (that she had, incidentally, also been stalking).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to support your claim? So far you have not provided any link that I requested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oregon's top federal prosecutor traveled from commune to the corner office
> UNBELIEVABLE Update - Oregon "Bundy Militia" Standoff - The U.S. Attorney At The Heart of The Hammond Family Problem...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So? The prosecutor is just doing her job. I see no problem there.
Click to expand...

 You asked me to link her lunacy, which I did. I'm glad you have no problem with nutjob stalkers.


----------



## NYcarbineer

Oregon Sheriff Cheered as He Says Armed Group Should 'Go Home'


----------



## Camp

bodecea said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Ammon Bundy...because dammit sometimes you feel like a nut..........*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ammon?  That name sounds suspiciously Mooslimy.
Click to expand...

It is the name of the son procreated by the incestuous relationship between Lot and his daughter. Anyone's guess why someone with Biblical knowledge would give their kid that name.


----------



## koshergrl

Weatherman2020 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
> More selective outrage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry, I did not know they were armed and took over a federal facility. It has been my understanding that many of them were arrested and many had their possessions confiscated and destroyed when they refused to tear down their tents erected in city parks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you're just ignorant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am ignorant of the people you are comparing the armed thugs to having taken over government facilities while armed with semi-automatic weapons  or any weapon at all. Perhaps you could provide a link that would enlighten me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me know when the Oregon group rapes, murders, arson, assaults and destroys public and private property like the Occupoopers did.
Click to expand...

 
Visitors from the area who have been to visit say the refuge buildings are sparkling clean and look better than they've ever seen them, lol.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> Some, even many will survive if they learn to adjust and adapt, but not on cheap leased federal lands.



Does this help or harm consumers? In fact this is a regressive attack (so common of the left) on the price of food. Once again democrats are making it more difficult for the poorest families to put meat on the table.

Our government is hostile to the citizenry.



> Face it, most of these old ranches have been dependent on cheap leased lands from the taxpayers. Each year that property becomes more and more valuable for other purposes and less valuable for cattle ranching.



And that leased land keeps beef prices low so that the poor in America can enjoy a protein rich diet. Those who eat red meat, especially in early childhood grow taller, stronger, and develop a higher IQ than those who do not.

The democrats are dedicated to putting an end to this; let the proles eat beans.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Seawytch said:


> Rube English isn't real English.
> 
> You questioned that they were armed, did you not? They ARE armed. Are you okay with armed seditionists taking over Federal Buildings, yes or no?



Comrade, is voting against Lord Obama in the past an act of "sedition?"

Will your god order a drone strike?


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some, even many will survive if they learn to adjust and adapt, but not on cheap leased federal lands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does this help or harm consumers? In fact this is a regressive attack (so common of the left) on the price of food. Once again democrats are making it more difficult for the poorest families to put meat on the table.
> 
> Our government is hostile to the citizenry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Face it, most of these old ranches have been dependent on cheap leased lands from the taxpayers. Each year that property becomes more and more valuable for other purposes and less valuable for cattle ranching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that leased land keeps beef prices low so that the poor in America can enjoy a protein rich diet. Those who eat red meat, especially in early childhood grow taller, stronger, and develop a higher IQ than those who do not.
> 
> The democrats are dedicated to putting an end to this; let the proles eat beans.
Click to expand...

 We send our logs to CHINA and JAPAN to be processed, and we buy meat from fucking MEXICO. It's asinine.


----------



## ogibillm

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're obviously confused. The Hammonds were charged, tried and convicted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sentenced, completed their sentence and released.
> 
> Under the laws of the old republic, that is where it stops, unless a new crime with a new trial occurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure they are. Especially when the cases are still being appealed. See Pollard V. US. Pollard was released on parole. And the appeals court found that the lower court released him in error. So back to prison Pollard went.
> 
> In the Hammond case, the appeals court found that the lower court hadn't applied statutory mandatory minimums when they should have, and that the Hammonds were released in error.  So, just like Pollard, back to prison the Hammonds went.
> 
> Remember, and I can't stress this point enough:_ you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. _
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and say what you think will help your party, rather than anything intelligent, but "parole" is an alternate form of serving a sentence. A Parolee is technically still incarcerated, you ignorant ditz. The Hammond's were not on parole, probation, or any other government oversight. They completed the legally mandated sentence of the presiding judge.
> 
> The federal government is engaging in terrorism and kidnapping, there is no legal justification for their acts.
Click to expand...

they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.

why do you support judicial activism?


----------



## bodecea

Weatherman2020 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
> More selective outrage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry, I did not know they were armed and took over a federal facility. It has been my understanding that many of them were arrested and many had their possessions confiscated and destroyed when they refused to tear down their tents erected in city parks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you're just ignorant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am ignorant of the people you are comparing the armed thugs to having taken over government facilities while armed with semi-automatic weapons  or any weapon at all. Perhaps you could provide a link that would enlighten me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me know when the Oregon group rapes, murders, arson, assaults and destroys public and private property like the Occupoopers did.
Click to expand...

Let us know when the government sends dozens and dozens of armed SWAT teams to Oregon.

And how do we know the women in the Oregon "compound" are safe?  Maybe as long as they make sandwiches and get the beer?


----------



## ogibillm

Tilly said:


> Maybe the longer this lasts, the more the locals are supporting them?
> 
> Earlier in the week, groups like the Three Percenters Club Oregon and the Oath Keepers posted statements condemning the decision to occupy the refuge center in Oregon after a demonstration protesting the federal jail sentence facing two local ranchers, Dwight and Steven Hammond. While members of those groups were involved in organizing the protest that preceded the occupation of the refuge, they decried occupiers' tactics in the immediate aftermath and claimed they were unaware of the plans to make a stand at the refuge.
> 
> *But now, while they still say it was not a part of the original plan to take over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, they agree with the occupiers’ message and even appreciate the attention the siege is bringing to the grievances they have against the federal government*


you're going to pretend those militia nutballs are representative of the general population?


----------



## skookerasbil

Have to laugh at the typical double standard from progressives on this kind of thing.............

Last year in Baltimore, you have whole sections of a city taken over by VIOLENT protestors.

Response from progressives??


Crickets!!!


They are always just fine with protestors as long as they are protesting shit they believe in!!!



ghey


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
> More selective outrage.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I did not know they were armed and took over a federal facility. It has been my understanding that many of them were arrested and many had their possessions confiscated and destroyed when they refused to tear down their tents erected in city parks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you're just ignorant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am ignorant of the people you are comparing the armed thugs to having taken over government facilities while armed with semi-automatic weapons  or any weapon at all. Perhaps you could provide a link that would enlighten me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me know when the Oregon group rapes, murders, arson, assaults and destroys public and private property like the Occupoopers did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Visitors from the area who have been to visit say the refuge buildings are sparkling clean and look better than they've ever seen them, lol.
Click to expand...

Oh...you mean people are still allowed in and out for bird watching?   Interesting...I thought the area was barracaded.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rube English isn't real English.
> 
> You questioned that they were armed, did you not? They ARE armed. Are you okay with armed seditionists taking over Federal Buildings, yes or no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade, is voting against Lord Obama in the past an act of "sedition?"
> 
> Will your god order a drone strike?
Click to expand...

Ah...still a one trick pony with your strawman arguments, eh?   Only way you can make a "point", eh?  
Why is it that you keep making up imaginary scenarios/positions for others in your head and then ask others to explain them?


----------



## Camp

Tilly said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> On their lawyers advice, of course.
Click to expand...

The locals have showed up and voted in public by raising hands and voice vote telling the Bundy's and militia to leave.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> The Property Clause  Article lV  Section 3  Clause 2
> Before there was BLM, National Forest, National Parks, National Monuments, Wildlife Preserves and whatever,  we just called our property territory.



You know better than to try and pull that with me.

Territory is an area which is not withing the boundaries of a state. All of the land in question is within states. 

So let us look at the Constitutuion;

{The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.}

Now this says that Congress can regulate property belonging to the United States, but that isn't the question asked. I will again ask by what Constitutional Authority does the federal government own 92% of land in the Western States? The right of kings? All is property of the king and the peasants are but tenants?


----------



## skookerasbil

TyroneSlothrop said:


>


----------



## Camp

The concept of random people taking over and occupying taxpayer and citizen owned lands granted by the founders in the constitution has been rejected and always will be.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

The Right wing "Infantada"


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't hear anyone from the left say the Occupoopers need to get off public property.
> More selective outrage.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I did not know they were armed and took over a federal facility. It has been my understanding that many of them were arrested and many had their possessions confiscated and destroyed when they refused to tear down their tents erected in city parks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then you're just ignorant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am ignorant of the people you are comparing the armed thugs to having taken over government facilities while armed with semi-automatic weapons  or any weapon at all. Perhaps you could provide a link that would enlighten me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me know when the Oregon group rapes, murders, arson, assaults and destroys public and private property like the Occupoopers did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Visitors from the area who have been to visit say the refuge buildings are sparkling clean and look better than they've ever seen them, lol.
Click to expand...

And they weren't that way before the terrorists AKA- deadbeats arrived on the scene?


----------



## JimBowie1958

OldLady said:


> As long as they clean up after themselves and pay for any damage, I don't think they should be overly punished.  Fine 'em for trespass and be done with it.  The building wasn't being used for anything at the time, if I heard correctly, so it isn't disrupting anything but school, and that was a questionable decision, imo.  The fact that they don't seem to be attracting a lot of supporters will probably make them think twice about beginning the Revolution in another venue next month.


Oh no! The libtards cant pass up a good crisis!


----------



## JimBowie1958

TyroneSlothrop said:


> The Right wing "Infantada"


----------



## koshergrl

skookerasbil said:


> Have to laugh at the typical double standard from progressives on this kind of thing.............
> 
> Last year in Baltimore, you have whole sections of a city taken over by VIOLENT protestors.
> 
> Response from progressives??
> 
> 
> Crickets!!!
> 
> 
> They are always just fine with protestors as long as they are protesting shit they believe in!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ghey


 
And at the bottom of this...MANDATORY SENTENCING, which everybody agrees is idiotic..does ANYBODY approve of mandatory sentencing? Anywhere? And land grabs by the feds...which is ALWAYS BAD if it happens to Indians, but now is suddently a GOOD thing for the Indians? Many of whom OWN PROPERTY that will be subject, yet again, to federal seizure.  That's what generations of booze, diabetes and inbreeding will do for you. Get a fucking clue.


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some, even many will survive if they learn to adjust and adapt, but not on cheap leased federal lands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does this help or harm consumers? In fact this is a regressive attack (so common of the left) on the price of food. Once again democrats are making it more difficult for the poorest families to put meat on the table.
> 
> Our government is hostile to the citizenry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Face it, most of these old ranches have been dependent on cheap leased lands from the taxpayers. Each year that property becomes more and more valuable for other purposes and less valuable for cattle ranching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And that leased land keeps beef prices low so that the poor in America can enjoy a protein rich diet. Those who eat red meat, especially in early childhood grow taller, stronger, and develop a higher IQ than those who do not.
> 
> The democrats are dedicated to putting an end to this; let the proles eat beans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We send our logs to CHINA and JAPAN to be processed, and we buy meat from fucking MEXICO. It's asinine.
Click to expand...

I lived in Japan. They are the bulwark against the Ruskies & Chinamen.. They need all the help we can give them


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Property Clause  Article lV  Section 3  Clause 2
> Before there was BLM, National Forest, National Parks, National Monuments, Wildlife Preserves and whatever,  we just called our property territory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know better than to try and pull that with me.
> 
> Territory is an area which is not withing the boundaries of a state. All of the land in question is within states.
> 
> So let us look at the Constitutuion;
> 
> {The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.}
> 
> Now this says that Congress can regulate property belonging to the United States, but that isn't the question asked. I will again ask by what Constitutional Authority does the federal government own 92% of land in the Western States? The right of kings? All is property of the king and the peasants are but tenants?
Click to expand...

I gave you the Article, section and clause. There is nothing in your response that give a shred of evidence that unoccupied or unowned properties in territories are rescinded and transferred when a territory becomes a state.


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> And at the bottom of this...MANDATORY SENTENCING, which everybody agrees is idiotic..does ANYBODY approve of mandatory sentencing? Anywhere? And land grabs by the feds...which is ALWAYS BAD if it happens to Indians, but now is suddently a GOOD thing for the Indians? Many of whom OWN PROPERTY that will be subject, yet again, to federal seizure.  That's what generations of booze, diabetes and inbreeding will do for you. Get a fucking clue.


The Repubs are the cheerleaders of mandatory sentencing.   They support the prison industrial complex wholeheartedly. Don't you read anything in the news/current events for the last 10 or so years?


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have to laugh at the typical double standard from progressives on this kind of thing.............
> 
> Last year in Baltimore, you have whole sections of a city taken over by VIOLENT protestors.
> 
> Response from progressives??
> 
> 
> Crickets!!!
> 
> 
> They are always just fine with protestors as long as they are protesting shit they believe in!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ghey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And at the bottom of this...MANDATORY SENTENCING, which everybody agrees is idiotic..does ANYBODY approve of mandatory sentencing? Anywhere? And land grabs by the feds...which is ALWAYS BAD if it happens to Indians, but now is suddently a GOOD thing for the Indians? Many of whom OWN PROPERTY that will be subject, yet again, to federal seizure.  That's what generations of booze, diabetes and inbreeding will do for you. Get a fucking clue.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the Federal Government didn't PAY for the land?   Funny, because the link you provided us two days ago stated very clearly that the land was PURCHASED by the Federal Government.   What is wrong with that?  Tell us.


----------



## JimBowie1958

ogibillm said:


> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?


For a grass burn? lol

Why do you support Nazi government?


----------



## skookerasbil

Dot Com said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And at the bottom of this...MANDATORY SENTENCING, which everybody agrees is idiotic..does ANYBODY approve of mandatory sentencing? Anywhere? And land grabs by the feds...which is ALWAYS BAD if it happens to Indians, but now is suddently a GOOD thing for the Indians? Many of whom OWN PROPERTY that will be subject, yet again, to federal seizure.  That's what generations of booze, diabetes and inbreeding will do for you. Get a fucking clue.
> 
> 
> 
> The Repubs are the cheerleaders of mandatory sentencing.   They support the prison industrial complex wholeheartedly. Don't you read anything in the news/current events for the last 10 or so years?
Click to expand...



That is absolutely correct........speak to any corrections officer about the stress and frustration seeing violent criminals coming into the system and going right back out only to be in again and again!!! The statement by the bozo above just shows one what we are dealing with here........indeed, a mental disorder!!

Nobody involved in Baltimore last summer has been indicted. Next tiem it blows, I say we send in DOTCOM to quell the disturbances!! Drop his ass right in the hot zone and see how he makes out!! ( don't forget your Nerf gun s0n!!)


----------



## JimBowie1958

Dot Com said:


> The Repubs are the cheerleaders of mandatory sentencing.   They support the prison industrial complex wholeheartedly. Don't you read anything in the news/current events for the last 10 or so years?


Lol, as if no Dhimmicrats supported it?

Who the hell do you think you are lying to, punk?


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have to laugh at the typical double standard from progressives on this kind of thing.............
> 
> Last year in Baltimore, you have whole sections of a city taken over by VIOLENT protestors.
> 
> Response from progressives??
> 
> 
> Crickets!!!
> 
> 
> They are always just fine with protestors as long as they are protesting shit they believe in!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ghey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And at the bottom of this...MANDATORY SENTENCING, which everybody agrees is idiotic..does ANYBODY approve of mandatory sentencing? Anywhere? And land grabs by the feds...which is ALWAYS BAD if it happens to Indians, but now is suddently a GOOD thing for the Indians? Many of whom OWN PROPERTY that will be subject, yet again, to federal seizure.  That's what generations of booze, diabetes and inbreeding will do for you. Get a fucking clue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that the Federal Government didn't PAY for the land?   Funny, because the link you provided us two days ago stated very clearly that the land was PURCHASED by the Federal Government.   What is wrong with that?  Tell us.
Click to expand...

There you go trying to obscure and confuse the issue again.

There is privately owned land that will soon be the subject of federal seizure/buy outs due to making the ranches economically impossible to support themselves.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

JimBowie1958 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> For a grass burn? lol
> 
> Why do you support Nazi government?
Click to expand...

If I burn grass to smoke it the Feds come after me .....and its my grass ...


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> For a grass burn? lol
> 
> Why do you support Nazi government?
Click to expand...

Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?


----------



## JimBowie1958

TyroneSlothrop said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> For a grass burn? lol
> 
> Why do you support Nazi government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I burn grass to smoke it the Feds come after me .....and its my grass ...
Click to expand...


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?


It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have to laugh at the typical double standard from progressives on this kind of thing.............
> 
> Last year in Baltimore, you have whole sections of a city taken over by VIOLENT protestors.
> 
> Response from progressives??
> 
> 
> Crickets!!!
> 
> 
> They are always just fine with protestors as long as they are protesting shit they believe in!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ghey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And at the bottom of this...MANDATORY SENTENCING, which everybody agrees is idiotic..does ANYBODY approve of mandatory sentencing? Anywhere? And land grabs by the feds...which is ALWAYS BAD if it happens to Indians, but now is suddently a GOOD thing for the Indians? Many of whom OWN PROPERTY that will be subject, yet again, to federal seizure.  That's what generations of booze, diabetes and inbreeding will do for you. Get a fucking clue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you saying that the Federal Government didn't PAY for the land?   Funny, because the link you provided us two days ago stated very clearly that the land was PURCHASED by the Federal Government.   What is wrong with that?  Tell us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There you go* trying to obscure and confuse the issue again*.
> 
> There is privately owned land that will soon be the subject of federal seizure/buy outs due to making the ranches economically impossible to support themselves.
Click to expand...

Ah...by pointing out the FACT that the land owned by the Feds was legally PURCHASED?    And you seem to want to hold out that "will soon be"....something that hasn't happened yet?   Really?   And you accuse ME of "trying to obscure and confuse the issue"?


----------



## skookerasbil

TyroneSlothrop said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> For a grass burn? lol
> 
> Why do you support Nazi government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I burn grass to smoke it the Feds come after me .....and its my grass ...
Click to expand...



s0n.....how you making out on that New Years resolution? Or are we still sitting on our hands with nothing meaningful to do? Don't forget.......none of that climate change shit will matter if you are busy with dealing with real responsibilities in life like most of the rest of the world!! You just don't have time to worry about stoopid shit!!


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> For a grass burn? lol
> 
> Why do you support Nazi government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I burn grass to smoke it the Feds come after me .....and its my grass ...
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Now that's Ironic....but we can see you taking that first step towards de-humanizing your fellow citizens.  If you were to gain power, what would come next?


----------



## ogibillm

JimBowie1958 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> For a grass burn? lol
> 
> Why do you support Nazi government?
Click to expand...

for the crime they committed there were mandatory sentences set by law. why do you support the judiciary ignoring the law?


----------



## bodecea

skookerasbil said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> For a grass burn? lol
> 
> Why do you support Nazi government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I burn grass to smoke it the Feds come after me .....and its my grass ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> s0n.....how you making out on that New Years resolution? Or are we still sitting on our hands with nothing meaningful to do? Don't forget.......none of that climate change shit will matter if you are busy with dealing with real responsibilities in life like most of the rest of the world!! You just don't have time to worry about stoopid shit!!
Click to expand...


As opposed to hanging out in Oregon begging for snacks?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

BUSTED: Oregon Militia Thugs Caught Falsely Posing As Marine Veterans





Image Via YouTube

Yes, we already knew that the militia thugs who have seized the Malheur Wildlife Refuge are a bunch of wannabe tough guys who think they have valid reasons for being such monumental asshats, but it also turns out that some of them are downright liars who are pretending to be military veterans.

Brian Cavalier, who is the “personal bodyguard” to Ammon Bundy has told reporters that he served in both Iraq and Afghanistan as a member of the Marines. One tiny problem: the Marine Corps has absolutely no record of him. Why might that be? Because he never enlisted in any branch.

In addition to Cavalier, Blaine Cooper also claims to be a Marine veteran. The truth, however, is much different: Cooper was on the “Delayed Entry Program” and never even went to boot camp. Guess he realized he wasn’t cut out to be a real hero so now he has to carry a gun and pretend he’s a man.

Cavalier told reporters recently:

_“I’m a retired United States Marine, I can rage.”_

No, you’re a pretend Marine and all you can do is lie.

When confronted by the media about his false claims of military service, including what the Marines said, Cavalier nervously replied:

“That’s unfortunate that someone would say that. I’m not commenting on anything. I told you what it is.”


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> Ah...by pointing out the FACT that the land owned by the Feds was legally PURCHASED?    And you seem to want to hold out that "will soon be"....something that hasn't happened yet?   Really?   And you accuse ME of "trying to obscure and confuse the issue"?



That is typical fascist rhetoric at work again; 'the gooberment did it therefore it must be legal.'

Local government abuse building codes and safety laws all the time to condemn buildings in order to seize them and auction them off in small private auctions to their political supporters to build stadiums and toll roads, etc.

The Feds have for a long time been abusing conservation laws to reduce the value of land and make farms and ranches money pits so they can then kindly offer to buy the victims out at a new price that does not reflect the economic potential of the land, land that they devalued by mismanaging the surrounding land.

Have you ever met a Dhimmicrat gooberment official whose ass you didnt reflexively want to kiss?

I didnt think so.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> For a grass burn? lol
> 
> Why do you support Nazi government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
Click to expand...

 WTF again? What the hell are you blathering about now? What do you think it was?


----------



## alpine

TyroneSlothrop said:


> BUSTED: Oregon Militia Thugs Caught Falsely Posing As Marine Veterans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image Via YouTube
> 
> Yes, we already knew that the militia thugs who have seized the Malheur Wildlife Refuge are a bunch of wannabe tough guys who think they have valid reasons for being such monumental asshats, but it also turns out that some of them are downright liars who are pretending to be military veterans.
> 
> Brian Cavalier, who is the “personal bodyguard” to Ammon Bundy has told reporters that he served in both Iraq and Afghanistan as a member of the Marines. One tiny problem: the Marine Corps has absolutely no record of him. Why might that be? Because he never enlisted in any branch.
> 
> In addition to Cavalier, Blaine Cooper also claims to be a Marine veteran. The truth, however, is much different: Cooper was on the “Delayed Entry Program” and never even went to boot camp. Guess he realized he wasn’t cut out to be a real hero so now he has to carry a gun and pretend he’s a man.
> 
> Cavalier told reporters recently:
> 
> _“I’m a retired United States Marine, I can rage.”_
> 
> No, you’re a pretend Marine and all you can do is lie.
> 
> When confronted by the media about his false claims of military service, including what the Marines said, Cavalier nervously replied:
> 
> “That’s unfortunate that someone would say that. I’m not commenting on anything. I told you what it is.”



Just raid in and destroy these insurgents already!!!

OBAMA is WEAK!!!!!!!!!


----------



## koshergrl

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...by pointing out the FACT that the land owned by the Feds was legally PURCHASED?    And you seem to want to hold out that "will soon be"....something that hasn't happened yet?   Really?   And you accuse ME of "trying to obscure and confuse the issue"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is typical fascist rhetoric at work again; 'the gooberment did it therefore it must be legal.'
> 
> Local government abuse building codes and safety laws all the time to condemn buildings in order to seize them and auction them off in small private auctions to their political supporters to build stadiums and toll roads, etc.
> 
> The Feds have for a long time been abusing conservation laws to reduce the value of land and make farms and ranches money pits so they can then kindly offer to buy the victims out at a new price that does not reflect the economic potential of the land, land that they devalued by mismanaging the surrounding land.
> 
> Have you ever met a Dhimmicrat gooberment official whose ass you didnt reflexively want to kiss?
> 
> I didnt think so.
Click to expand...

 
The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.


----------



## JimBowie1958

TyroneSlothrop said:


> BUSTED: Oregon Militia Thugs Caught Falsely Posing As Marine Veterans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image Via YouTube
> 
> Yes, we already knew that the militia thugs who have seized the Malheur Wildlife Refuge are a bunch of wannabe tough guys who think they have valid reasons for being such monumental asshats, but it also turns out that some of them are downright liars who are pretending to be military veterans.
> 
> Brian Cavalier, who is the “personal bodyguard” to Ammon Bundy has told reporters that he served in both Iraq and Afghanistan as a member of the Marines. One tiny problem: the Marine Corps has absolutely no record of him. Why might that be? Because he never enlisted in any branch.
> 
> In addition to Cavalier, Blaine Cooper also claims to be a Marine veteran. The truth, however, is much different: Cooper was on the “Delayed Entry Program” and never even went to boot camp. Guess he realized he wasn’t cut out to be a real hero so now he has to carry a gun and pretend he’s a man.
> 
> Cavalier told reporters recently:
> 
> _“I’m a retired United States Marine, I can rage.”_
> 
> No, you’re a pretend Marine and all you can do is lie.
> 
> When confronted by the media about his false claims of military service, including what the Marines said, Cavalier nervously replied:
> 
> “That’s unfortunate that someone would say that. I’m not commenting on anything. I told you what it is.”



Lol, and you think that no records for vets would have records not come up due to a name change, misspelling or request to not allow them to the public?

What a dumbass assumption you make, of course when it entirely suits your ideological purposes.

I think it is quite likely that these guys are in fact lying and are frauds, however there is no evidence of that simply because some libtard made a quick search and found nothing on the men in question.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
Click to expand...

Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?  

'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News

Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...by pointing out the FACT that the land owned by the Feds was legally PURCHASED?    And you seem to want to hold out that "will soon be"....something that hasn't happened yet?   Really?   And you accuse ME of "trying to obscure and confuse the issue"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is typical fascist rhetoric at work again; 'the gooberment did it therefore it must be legal.'
> 
> Local government abuse building codes and safety laws all the time to condemn buildings in order to seize them and auction them off in small private auctions to their political supporters to build stadiums and toll roads, etc.
> 
> The Feds have for a long time been abusing conservation laws to reduce the value of land and make farms and ranches money pits so they can then kindly offer to buy the victims out at a new price that does not reflect the economic potential of the land, land that they devalued by mismanaging the surrounding land.
> 
> Have you ever met a Dhimmicrat gooberment official whose ass you didnt reflexively want to kiss?
> 
> I didnt think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.
Click to expand...

And the federal government is made up of the PEOPLE.   
But it is amusing to watch your madness.


----------



## JimBowie1958

alpine said:


> Just raid in and destroy these insurgents already!!!
> 
> OBAMA is WEAK!!!!!!!!!


Just like a Marxist agitator.

What stores have these men looted or property have they burned to the ground yet?

None, so why dont you just pretend that they are your  fellow lying commie bastard in Black Lies Matter and just piss off?


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUSTED: Oregon Militia Thugs Caught Falsely Posing As Marine Veterans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image Via YouTube
> 
> Yes, we already knew that the militia thugs who have seized the Malheur Wildlife Refuge are a bunch of wannabe tough guys who think they have valid reasons for being such monumental asshats, but it also turns out that some of them are downright liars who are pretending to be military veterans.
> 
> Brian Cavalier, who is the “personal bodyguard” to Ammon Bundy has told reporters that he served in both Iraq and Afghanistan as a member of the Marines. One tiny problem: the Marine Corps has absolutely no record of him. Why might that be? Because he never enlisted in any branch.
> 
> In addition to Cavalier, Blaine Cooper also claims to be a Marine veteran. The truth, however, is much different: Cooper was on the “Delayed Entry Program” and never even went to boot camp. Guess he realized he wasn’t cut out to be a real hero so now he has to carry a gun and pretend he’s a man.
> 
> Cavalier told reporters recently:
> 
> _“I’m a retired United States Marine, I can rage.”_
> 
> No, you’re a pretend Marine and all you can do is lie.
> 
> When confronted by the media about his false claims of military service, including what the Marines said, Cavalier nervously replied:
> 
> “That’s unfortunate that someone would say that. I’m not commenting on anything. I told you what it is.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, and you think that no records for vets would have records not come up due to a name change, misspelling or request to not allow them to the public?
> 
> What a dumbass assumption you make, of course when it entirely suits your ideological purposes.
> 
> I think it is quite likely that these guys are in fact lying and are frauds, however there is no evidence of that simply because some libtard made a quick search and found nothing on the men in question.
Click to expand...

Continue to make excuses for them.


----------



## bodecea

TyroneSlothrop said:


> BUSTED: Oregon Militia Thugs Caught Falsely Posing As Marine Veterans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image Via YouTube
> 
> Yes, we already knew that the militia thugs who have seized the Malheur Wildlife Refuge are a bunch of wannabe tough guys who think they have valid reasons for being such monumental asshats, but it also turns out that some of them are downright liars who are pretending to be military veterans.
> 
> Brian Cavalier, who is the “personal bodyguard” to Ammon Bundy has told reporters that he served in both Iraq and Afghanistan as a member of the Marines. One tiny problem: the Marine Corps has absolutely no record of him. Why might that be? Because he never enlisted in any branch.
> 
> In addition to Cavalier, Blaine Cooper also claims to be a Marine veteran. The truth, however, is much different: Cooper was on the “Delayed Entry Program” and never even went to boot camp. Guess he realized he wasn’t cut out to be a real hero so now he has to carry a gun and pretend he’s a man.
> 
> Cavalier told reporters recently:
> 
> _“I’m a retired United States Marine, I can rage.”_
> 
> No, you’re a pretend Marine and all you can do is lie.
> 
> When confronted by the media about his false claims of military service, including what the Marines said, Cavalier nervously replied:
> 
> “That’s unfortunate that someone would say that. I’m not commenting on anything. I told you what it is.”


Isn't Stolen Valor now a crime.   Someone should definitely check into this more.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...by pointing out the FACT that the land owned by the Feds was legally PURCHASED?    And you seem to want to hold out that "will soon be"....something that hasn't happened yet?   Really?   And you accuse ME of "trying to obscure and confuse the issue"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is typical fascist rhetoric at work again; 'the gooberment did it therefore it must be legal.'
> 
> Local government abuse building codes and safety laws all the time to condemn buildings in order to seize them and auction them off in small private auctions to their political supporters to build stadiums and toll roads, etc.
> 
> The Feds have for a long time been abusing conservation laws to reduce the value of land and make farms and ranches money pits so they can then kindly offer to buy the victims out at a new price that does not reflect the economic potential of the land, land that they devalued by mismanaging the surrounding land.
> 
> Have you ever met a Dhimmicrat gooberment official whose ass you didnt reflexively want to kiss?
> 
> I didnt think so.
Click to expand...

Isn't it cool how you think that just because someone doesn't like that land was BOUGHT by the government legally and fairly, you can simply ignore that transaction?    Only if you are entitled white male tho, right?


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
Click to expand...

 Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.


----------



## koshergrl

And the BLM frequently will request locals to bring their equipment and themselves to help them fight fires, incidentally.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> For a grass burn? lol
> 
> Why do you support Nazi government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WTF again? What the hell are you blathering about now? What do you think it was?
Click to expand...

A wildfire, with flames 8-10 feet high.   If you really knew that area, you would know how fast and how deadly a wildfire can get.   One more piece of evidence showing that everything you are saying about knowing that area is


----------



## alpine

JimBowie1958 said:


> alpine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just raid in and destroy these insurgents already!!!
> 
> OBAMA is WEAK!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Just like a Marxist agitator.
> 
> What stores have these men looted or property have they burned to the ground yet?
> 
> None, so why dont you just pretend that they are your  fellow lying commie bastard in Black Lies Matter and just piss off?
Click to expand...


Anybody challenging gov authority shall be crushed to make an example of.

If OBAMA can't handle this, he should resign and we should have a true leader who is capable of crushing any insurgents, inside our outside the country....


----------



## koshergrl

Also, the blm doesn't maintain the land that they no longer allow the ranchers to put cows on. The result is that it accumulates a huge mat of dead grass and weeds that poses a huge wildfire threat to all the property that adjoins it. THAT'S why they allow the ranchers to light backfires. Because if they don't, the blm fires will lay waste to everything.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
Click to expand...

Backfires are NOT common or certainly not legal when you do it without permission not on your own land and especially when there are drought "no burn" conditions.   I too wondered what the big deal about "grass" wildfires were UNTIL I moved out west and saw what they can do.  I've lived through several bad ones and had a front row seat to the one in North San Diego County last May.   If you really lived in that area, you too would know how serious they are and how serious authorities are when we have "no burn" conditions.
But I suspect you really are not familiar with what its like.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> And the BLM frequently will request locals to bring their equipment and themselves to help them fight fires, incidentally.


Oh.   They were asked?   Got evidence of that?


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Also, the blm doesn't maintain the land that they no longer allow the ranchers to put cows on. The result is that it accumulates a huge mat of dead grass and weeds that poses a huge wildfire threat to all the property that adjoins it. THAT'S why they allow the ranchers to light backfires. Because if they don't, the blm fires will lay waste to everything.


So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?



Lol, those are not facts, they are allegations from an incompetent attorney that was forced to resign 'for health reasons'.


From a post by 2aguy 
_The prosecution of the Hammonds revolved mainly around two burns, one in 2001 and another in 2006. The government alleged that the first was ignited to cover up evidence of poaching and placed a teenager in danger. The Hammonds claimed that they started it to clear an invasive species, as is their legal right. Whatever its intent, the fire spread from the Hammonds’ property and ultimately ignited 139 acres of public land. *But the trial judge found that the teenager’s testimony was tainted by age and bias and that the fire had merely damaged “juniper trees and sagebrush” — damage that “might” total $100 in value. *

The other burn was trifling. Here’s how the Ninth Circuit described it: In August 2006, a lightning storm kindled several fires near where the Hammonds grew their winter feed. Steven responded by attempting back burns near the boundary of his land. Although a burn ban was in effect, Steven did not seek a waiver. 

His fires burned about an acre of public land. In 2010 — almost nine years after the 2001 burn — the government filed a 19-count indictment against the Hammonds that included charges under the Federal Anti-terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, which mandates a five-year prison term for anyone who “maliciously damages or destroys, or attempts to damage or destroy, by means of fire or an explosive, any building, vehicle, or other personal or real property in whole or in part owned or possessed by, or leased to, the United States.” 


At trial, the jury found the Hammonds guilty of maliciously setting fire to public property worth less than $1,000, acquitted them of other charges, and deadlocked on the government’s conspiracy claims. While the jury continued to deliberate, the Hammonds and the prosecution reached a plea agreement in which the Hammonds agreed to waive their appeal rights and accept the jury’s verdict. 

It was their understanding that the plea agreement would end the case. At sentencing, the trial court refused to apply the mandatory-minimum sentence, holding that five years in prison would be “grossly disproportionate to the severity of the offenses” and that the Hammonds’ fires “could not have been conduct intended [to be covered] under” the Anti-terrorism act: When you say, you know, what if you burn sagebrush in the suburbs of Los Angeles where there are houses up those ravines? Might apply.

Out in the wilderness here, I don’t think that’s what the Congress intended. And in addition, it just would not be — would not meet any idea I have of justice, proportionality. . . . It would be a sentence which would shock the conscience to me. Thus, he found that the mandatory-minimum sentence would — under the facts of this case — violate the Eighth Amendment’s prohibition against “cruel and unusual punishment.” He sentenced Steven Hammond to two concurrent prison terms of twelve months and one day and Dwight Hammond to one prison term of three months. The Hammonds served their sentences without incident or controversy._
The Case for Civil Disobedience in Oregon, by David French, National Review

_There’s a clear argument that the government engaged in an overzealous, vindictive prosecution here. By no stretch of the imagination were the Hammonds terrorists, yet they were prosecuted under an anti-terrorism statute. The government could have let the case end once the men had served their sentences, yet it pressed for more jail time. And the whole time, it held in its back pocket potential rights to the family’s property. To the outside observer, it appears the government has attempted to crush private homeowners and destroy their livelihood in a quest for even more land._


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.


So while a fire is approaching your property, you think that civilians have to file for a waiver first? No, they call the fire department then do the back fire.

You are a fucking idiot.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.
> 
> 
> 
> So while a fire is approaching your property, you think that civilians have to file for a waiver first? No, they call the fire department then do the back fire.
> 
> You are a fucking idiot.
Click to expand...

Hey, just a grass fire, Jimbo:  
Maybe those homeowners would have been better off just lighting back fires, the hell with firefighters being in the area, eh?


----------



## charwin95

Since no one are joining them maybe  it's time to end this lawlessness. 

'I Need to Get Home': Oregon Occupiers Hint at Exit Plan


----------



## JimBowie1958

Here is the full story from the Hammonds point of view.

Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...

_(a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.

(a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.

(b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*

(c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.

(d) The FWS also began restricting access to upper pieces of the Hammond’s private property. In order to get to the upper part of the Hammond’s ranch they had to go on a road that went through the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge. The FWS began barricading the road and threatening the Hammonds if they drove through it. The Hammonds removed the barricades and gates and continued to use their right of access. The road was proven later to be owned by the County of Harney. This further enraged the BLM & FWS.

(e) Shortly after the road & water disputes, the BLM & FWS arbitrarily revoked the Hammond’s upper grazing permit without any given cause, court proceeding or court ruling. As a traditional “fence out state” Oregon requires no obligation on the part of an owner to keep his or her livestock within a fence or to maintain control over the movement of the livestock. The Hammonds still intended to use their private property for grazing. However, they were informed a federal judge ruled, in a federal court, the federal government did not have to observe the Oregon fence out law. “Those laws are for the people, not for them”.

(f) The Hammonds were forced to either build and maintain miles of fences or be restricted from the use of their private property. Cutting their ranch in almost half, they could not afford to fence the land, so the cattle were removed.

(g) The Hammonds experienced many years of financial hardship due to the ranch being diminished. The Hammonds had to sell their ranch and home in order to purchase another property that had enough grass to feed their cattle. This property included two grazing rights on public land. Those were also arbitrarily revoked later....

(i) In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries.

(j) In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.

(j1) The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff’s office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.

(k) In 2011, 5 years after the police report was taken, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges; they accused them of being “Terrorists” under the Federal Anti terrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death. Dwight & Steven’s mug shots were all over the news the next week posing them as “Arsonists”. Susan Hammond (Wife & Mother) said: “I would walk down the street or go in a store, people I had known for years would take extreme measures to avoid me”....

l) Shortly after the sentencing, Capital Press ran a story about the Hammonds. A person who identified as Greg Allum posted three comments on the article, calling the ranchers “clowns” who endangered firefighters and other people in the area while burning valuable range land. Greg Allum, a retired BLM heavy equipment operator, soon called Capital Press to complain he had not made those comments and requested they be taken down from the website. Capital Press removed the comments. A search of the Internet Protocol address associated with the comments revealed the origin as the BLM’s office in Denver, Colorado. Allum said, he is friends with the Hammonds and he was alerted to the comments by neighbors who knew he wouldn’t have written them. “I feel bad for them. They lost a lot and they’re going to lose more,” Allum said of the ranchers. “They’re not terrorists”.  “There’s this hatred in the BLM for them, and I don’t get it,” the retired BLM employee said. Jody Weil, deputy state director for communications at BLM’s Oregon office, indicated to reporters that if one of their agents falsified the comments, they would keep it private and not inform the public.

(m) In September 2006, Dwight & Susan Hammond’s home was raided. The agents informed the Hammonds they were looking for evidence that would connect them to the fires. The Hammonds later found out a boot print and a tire tracks were found near one of the many fires. No matching boots or tires were found in the Hammonds home or on their property. Susan Hammond (Wife) later said; ” I have never felt so violated in my life. We are ranchers not criminals”.  Steven Hammond openly maintains his testimony that he started the backfire to save the winter grass from being destroyed and the backfire ended up working so well it put out the fire altogether.

(n) During the trial proceedings, Federal Court Judge Michael Hogan did not allow time for certain testimonies and evidence into the trail which would exonerate the Hammonds. Federal prosecuting attorney, Frank Papagni, was given full access for six days. He had ample time to use any evidence or testimony that strengthened the demonization of the Hammonds. The Hammonds attorney was only allowed 1 day. Many of the facts about the fires, land and why the Hammonds acted the way they did was not allowed into the proceedings and was not heard by the jury.  Example: Judge Hogan did not allow time for the jury to hear or review certified scientific findings the fires improved the health and productivity of the land. Or, that the Hammonds had been subject to vindictive behavior by multiple federal agencies for years.

(o) Federal attorneys, Frank Papagni, hunted down a witness who was not mentally capable to be credible.  Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire. He was 13-years-old at the time, and 24-years-old when he testified (11 years later). At 24 Dusty had been suffering with mental problems for many years. He had estranged his family including his mother. Judge Hogan noted that Dusty’s memories as a 13-year-old boy were not clear or credible.  However, Judge Hogan allowed the prosecution to continually use Dusty’s testimony. ...

(p) Judge Michael Hogan & Frank Papagni tampered with the jury many times throughout the proceedings, including during the selection process. Hogan & Papagni only allowed people on the jury who did not understand the customs and culture of the ranchers or how land is used and cared for in the Diamond Valley. All of the jurors had to drive back and forth to Pendleton every day. Some drove more than two hours each way. By day 8 they were exhausted and expressed desires to be home.

On the final day, Judge Hogan kept pushing them to make a verdict. [Several times during deliberation, Judge Hogan pushed them to make a decision.]  Judge Hogan also would not allow the jury to hear what punishment could be imposed upon an individual convicted as a terrorist under the 1996 act. The jury, not understanding the customs and cultures of the area and influenced by the prosecutors for six straight days, very exhausted, pushed for a verdict by the judge, unaware of the ramification of convicting someone as a terrorist, gave a verdict and went home.

(q) June 22, 2012, Dwight and Steven were found guilty of starting both the 2001 and the 2006 fires by the jury. However, the federal courts convicted them both as “Terrorists” under the 1996 Anti terrorism Act. Judge Hogan sentenced Dwight (Father) to 3 months in prison and Steven (son) to 12 months in federal prison. Both were also stipulated to pay $400,000 to the BLM. Judge Hogan overruling the minimum terrorist sentence, commented if the full five years were required it would be a violation of the 8th amendment (cruel and unusual punishment). The day of the sentencing Judge Hogan retired as a federal judge. In his honor the staff served chocolate cake in the courtroom.

(r) On January 4, 2013, Dwight and Steven reported to prison. They fulfilled their sentences, (Dwight 3 months, Steven 12 months). Dwight was released in March 2013 and Steven, January 2014.

(s) Sometime in June 2014, Rhonda Karges, Field Manager for the BLM, and her husband Chad Karges, Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife Refuge (which surrounds the Hammond ranch), along with attorney Frank Papagni exemplified further vindictive behavior by filing an appeal with the 9th District Federal Court seeking Dwight’s and Steven’s return to federal prison for the entire 5 years.*

(t) In October 2015, the 9th District Court “re-sentenced
_
*This is plainly a case of Federal power gone totally fascist, which the libtards just love.*


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.
> 
> 
> 
> So while a fire is approaching your property, you think that civilians have to file for a waiver first? No, they call the fire department then do the back fire.
> 
> You are a fucking idiot.
Click to expand...

Tell us your expertise in lighting back fires since you are so brilliant.  Where do you light it?   What about the wind?  You know...the wind driving a wildfire in a set direction.   You think your EXPERTISE will tell you where to place that backfire?      It amazes me how suddenly all of you who denigrate high education are suddenly so knowledgable on pretty much everywhere.


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.
> 
> 
> 
> So while a fire is approaching your property, you think that civilians have to file for a waiver first? No, they call the fire department then do the back fire.
> 
> You are a fucking idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, just a grass fire, Jimbo:
> Maybe those homeowners would have been better off just lighting back fires, the hell with firefighters being in the area, eh?
Click to expand...


I did not propose such a thing, you lying jack ass.


----------



## bodecea

charwin95 said:


> Since no one are joining them maybe  it's time to end this lawlessness.
> 
> 'I Need to Get Home': Oregon Occupiers Hint at Exit Plan


They must be running out of snacks.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.
> 
> 
> 
> So while a fire is approaching your property, you think that civilians have to file for a waiver first? No, they call the fire department then do the back fire.
> 
> You are a fucking idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, just a grass fire, Jimbo:
> Maybe those homeowners would have been better off just lighting back fires, the hell with firefighters being in the area, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not propose such a thing, you lying jack ass.
Click to expand...

You sure did, Genius boy.


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> Tell us your expertise in lighting back fires since you are so brilliant.  Where do you light it?   What about the wind?  You know...the wind driving a wildfire in a set direction.   You think your EXPERTISE will tell you where to place that backfire?      It amazes me how suddenly all of you who denigrate high education are suddenly so knowledgable on pretty much everywhere.



Lol there you go lying again.

I never claimed to be an expert at lighting fires, Nazi


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.
> 
> 
> 
> So while a fire is approaching your property, you think that civilians have to file for a waiver first? No, they call the fire department then do the back fire.
> 
> You are a fucking idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, just a grass fire, Jimbo:
> Maybe those homeowners would have been better off just lighting back fires, the hell with firefighters being in the area, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not propose such a thing, you lying jack ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure did, Genius boy.
Click to expand...

No I did not you lying fuck


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, those are not facts, they are allegations from an incompetent attorney that was forced to resign 'for health reasons'.
> 
> 
> From a post by 2aguy
> _The prosecution of the Hammonds revolved mainly around two burns, one in 2001 and another in 2006. The government alleged that the first was ignited to cover up evidence of poaching and placed a teenager in danger. The Hammonds claimed that they started it to clear an invasive species, as is their legal right. Whatever its intent, the fire spread from the Hammonds’ property and ultimately ignited 139 acres of public land. *But the trial judge found that the teenager’s testimony was tainted by age and bias and that the fire had merely damaged “juniper trees and sagebrush” — damage that “might” total $100 in value. *
> 
> The other burn was trifling. Here’s how the Ninth Circuit described it: In August 2006, a lightning storm kindled several fires near where the Hammonds grew their winter feed. Steven responded by attempting back burns near the boundary of his land. Although a burn ban was in effect, Steven did not seek a waiver.
> 
> His fires burned about an acre of public land. In 2010 — almost nine years after the 2001 burn — the government filed a 19-count indictment against the Hammonds that included charges under the Federal Anti-terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, which mandates a five-year prison term for anyone who “maliciously damages or destroys, or attempts to damage or destroy, by means of fire or an explosive, any building, vehicle, or other personal or real property in whole or in part owned or possessed by, or leased to, the United States.”
> 
> 
> At trial, the jury found the Hammonds guilty of maliciously setting fire to public property worth less than $1,000, acquitted them of other charges, and deadlocked on the government’s conspiracy claims. While the jury continued to deliberate, the Hammonds and the prosecution reached a plea agreement in which the Hammonds agreed to waive their appeal rights and accept the jury’s verdict.
> 
> It was their understanding that the plea agreement would end the case. At sentencing, the trial court refused to apply the mandatory-minimum sentence, holding that five years in prison would be “grossly disproportionate to the severity of the offenses” and that the Hammonds’ fires “could not have been conduct intended [to be covered] under” the Anti-terrorism act: When you say, you know, what if you burn sagebrush in the suburbs of Los Angeles where there are houses up those ravines? Might apply.
> 
> Out in the wilderness here, I don’t think that’s what the Congress intended. And in addition, it just would not be — would not meet any idea I have of justice, proportionality. . . . It would be a sentence which would shock the conscience to me. Thus, he found that the mandatory-minimum sentence would — under the facts of this case — violate the Eighth Amendment’s prohibition against “cruel and unusual punishment.” He sentenced Steven Hammond to two concurrent prison terms of twelve months and one day and Dwight Hammond to one prison term of three months. The Hammonds served their sentences without incident or controversy._
> The Case for Civil Disobedience in Oregon, by David French, National Review
> 
> _There’s a clear argument that the government engaged in an overzealous, vindictive prosecution here. By no stretch of the imagination were the Hammonds terrorists, yet they were prosecuted under an anti-terrorism statute. The government could have let the case end once the men had served their sentences, yet it pressed for more jail time. And the whole time, it held in its back pocket potential rights to the family’s property. To the outside observer, it appears the government has attempted to crush private homeowners and destroy their livelihood in a quest for even more land._
Click to expand...

Oh well....a post.   Must be true.


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> Oh well....a post.   Must be true.


I gave the link, idiot.

That is far more documentation than you typically give.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us your expertise in lighting back fires since you are so brilliant.  Where do you light it?   What about the wind?  You know...the wind driving a wildfire in a set direction.   You think your EXPERTISE will tell you where to place that backfire?      It amazes me how suddenly all of you who denigrate high education are suddenly so knowledgable on pretty much everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol there you go lying again.
> 
> I never claimed to be an expert at lighting fires, Nazi
Click to expand...

So you really know nothing about such things....and yet here you were starting off poo-pooing the seriousness by calling it "just a grass fire".   Maybe next time, you will actually THINK before saying the stupid things you do.    Nah..........you will keep on being stupid.   That's what we like about you.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well....a post.   Must be true.
> 
> 
> 
> I gave the link, idiot.
> 
> That is far more documentation than you typically give.
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm reading the link now....but YOU yourself pointed out it was a post.   Again, this is why we like you.......so stupid....so easy to laugh at.


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> So you really know nothing about such things....and yet here you were starting off poo-pooing the seriousness by calling it "just a grass fire".   Maybe next time, you will actually THINK before saying the stupid things you do.    Nah..........you will keep on being stupid.   That's what we like about you.


You have to be one of the most idiotic people I have seen on these boards.

No, I am not an expert, but people who live in these areas and whose families have ranched in these areas for years ARE EXPERTS, get it?


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well....a post.   Must be true.
> 
> 
> 
> I gave the link, idiot.
> 
> That is far more documentation than you typically give.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I'm reading the link now....but YOU yourself pointed out it was a post.   Again, this is why we like you.......so stupid....so easy to laugh at.
Click to expand...

I refered to 2aguys post, but I also included other information, dip shit.


----------



## JimBowie1958

Dont let the libtards obscure the central facts available with this post here.

Assholes making trouble in Oregon | Page 128 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well....a post.   Must be true.
> 
> 
> 
> I gave the link, idiot.
> 
> That is far more documentation than you typically give.
Click to expand...

Ah...having read the link.....an opinion piece.   Well......I know that in JimboWorld Opinion = Facts, right?


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well....a post.   Must be true.
> 
> 
> 
> I gave the link, idiot.
> 
> That is far more documentation than you typically give.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah...having read the link.....an opinion piece.   Well......I know that in JimboWorld Opinion = Facts, right?
Click to expand...


Lol, you are too stupid to breath.

The article has links to many facts and gives the Hammonds side of the story, you know the thing you Stalinist jack boots are supposed to give people before shooting them?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Dont let the libtards obscure the central facts available with this post here.

Assholes making trouble in Oregon | Page 128 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## charwin95

bodecea said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.
> 
> 
> 
> So while a fire is approaching your property, you think that civilians have to file for a waiver first? No, they call the fire department then do the back fire.
> 
> You are a fucking idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, just a grass fire, Jimbo:
> Maybe those homeowners would have been better off just lighting back fires, the hell with firefighters being in the area, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not propose such a thing, you lying jack ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure did, Genius boy.
Click to expand...


Why even bother to deal with this uncivilized human being.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.
> 
> 
> 
> So while a fire is approaching your property, you think that civilians have to file for a waiver first? No, they call the fire department then do the back fire.
> 
> You are a fucking idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, just a grass fire, Jimbo:
> Maybe those homeowners would have been better off just lighting back fires, the hell with firefighters being in the area, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not propose such a thing, you lying jack ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure did, Genius boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I did not you lying fuck
Click to expand...

I can see by your silly angry fit that I have struck a nerve.  Tell us more about how it was just a grass fire.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> Dont let the libtards obscure the central facts available with this post here.
> 
> Assholes making trouble in Oregon | Page 128 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


Are you somehow so mentally challenged that you can't link the OPINION piece yourself?


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> Are you somehow so mentally challenged that you can't link the OPINION piece yourself?


Are you too stupid to follow links?


----------



## bodecea

charwin95 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.
> 
> 
> 
> So while a fire is approaching your property, you think that civilians have to file for a waiver first? No, they call the fire department then do the back fire.
> 
> You are a fucking idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, just a grass fire, Jimbo:
> Maybe those homeowners would have been better off just lighting back fires, the hell with firefighters being in the area, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not propose such a thing, you lying jack ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure did, Genius boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why even bother to deal with this uncivilized human being.
Click to expand...

He's entertaining in a "make fun of the idiot boy" kind of way.

This is as much fun as the thread in which he confused anyone who didn't believe in the Judeo-Christian god as being an Atheist.   Millions if not Billions of Hindus, Buddhist, and Pagans are surprised to hear that.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you somehow so mentally challenged that you can't link the OPINION piece yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you too stupid to follow links?
Click to expand...

Of course I am....if you had paid attention I have already commented on the link in the link you provided.   Of course, the question is.....why do you have to provide a link with an imbedded link?   Why not just jump right to the National Review link?   Duh.


----------



## Carla_Danger

bodecea said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since no one are joining them maybe  it's time to end this lawlessness.
> 
> 'I Need to Get Home': Oregon Occupiers Hint at Exit Plan
> 
> 
> 
> They must be running out of snacks.
Click to expand...


----------



## bravoactual

koshergrl said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agit8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Assistant U.S. Attorneys in the case are based in Oregon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The particular voice that demanded it be dragged into the ninth circus was a demented Obama appointee who has since been retired to the funny farm, after she approached a Mexican drug cartel member to kill a fellow bar member (that she had, incidentally, also been stalking).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to support your claim? So far you have not provided any link that I requested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oregon's top federal prosecutor traveled from commune to the corner office
> UNBELIEVABLE Update - Oregon "Bundy Militia" Standoff - The U.S. Attorney At The Heart of The Hammond Family Problem...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So? The prosecutor is just doing her job. I see no problem there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked me to link her lunacy, which I did. I'm glad you have no problem with nutjob stalkers.
Click to expand...


And you still do not provide a link.  

Mainly because you cannot find one.


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
Click to expand...

is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you somehow so mentally challenged that you can't link the OPINION piece yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you too stupid to follow links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I am....if you had paid attention I have already commented on the link in the link you provided.   Of course, the question is.....why do you have to provide a link with an imbedded link?   Why not just jump right to the National Review link?   Duh.
Click to expand...

Because it also gives a BUNCH OF OTHER LINKS, stupid fuck


----------



## Carla_Danger

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you somehow so mentally challenged that you can't link the OPINION piece yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you too stupid to follow links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I am....if you had paid attention I have already commented on the link in the link you provided.   Of course, the question is.....why do you have to provide a link with an imbedded link?   Why not just jump right to the National Review link?   Duh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it also gives a BUNCH OF OTHER LINKS, stupid fuck
Click to expand...



To a bunch of other Neo-Clown sites!  LOL!


----------



## JimBowie1958

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
Click to expand...

Arson can be used to destroy evidence sure, but what other evidence is there that the Hammonds did any poaching? Why would they when they owned plenty of their own land to hunt pests on?


----------



## konradv

Native Americans say, "Get the hell out. It's our land not yours."

Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com


----------



## JimBowie1958

bodecea said:


> He's entertaining in a "make fun of the idiot boy" kind of way.
> 
> This is as much fun as the thread in which he confused anyone who didn't believe in the Judeo-Christian god as being an Atheist.   Millions if not Billions of Hindus, Buddhist, and Pagans are surprised to hear that.



Lol, and that is not what I said, you fucking liar.


----------



## ogibillm

JimBowie1958 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arson can be used to destroy evidence sure, but what other evidence is there that the Hammonds did any poaching? Why would they when they owned plenty of their own land to hunt pests on?
Click to expand...

sworn testimony of relatives.


----------



## JimBowie1958

konradv said:


> Native Americans say, "Get the hell out. It's our land not yours."
> 
> Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com



Bullshit. That land that is owned by the BLM is public property and owned by all citizens of this country.

How is quoting some lame ass pretend Indian supposed to help a damned thing?


----------



## JimBowie1958

ogibillm said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arson can be used to destroy evidence sure, but what other evidence is there that the Hammonds did any poaching? Why would they when they owned plenty of their own land to hunt pests on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sworn testimony of relatives.
Click to expand...

You mean that teen kid who had mental problems and should not have been allowed to testify?

That kid?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Dont let the libtards obscure the central facts available with this post here.

Assholes making trouble in Oregon | Page 128 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


----------



## koshergrl

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...where was the permission to light those backfires, Allie?   You'd think that would be something that would come up in their defense.
> 
> 
> 
> So while a fire is approaching your property, you think that civilians have to file for a waiver first? No, they call the fire department then do the back fire.
> 
> You are a fucking idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, just a grass fire, Jimbo:
> Maybe those homeowners would have been better off just lighting back fires, the hell with firefighters being in the area, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did not propose such a thing, you lying jack ass.
Click to expand...

 Ha I knew you were talking about bode even before I clicked on the "show ignored content" tab hahahaha


----------



## koshergrl

JimBowie1958 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arson can be used to destroy evidence sure, but what other evidence is there that the Hammonds did any poaching? Why would they when they owned plenty of their own land to hunt pests on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sworn testimony of relatives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean that teen kid who had mental problems and should not have been allowed to testify?
> 
> That kid?
Click to expand...

 
The one whose testimony the original judge and jury dismissed as unreliable, biased and untruthful.


----------



## konradv

JimBowie1958 said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> 
> Native Americans say, "Get the hell out. It's our land not yours."Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. That land that is owned by the BLM is public property and owned by all citizens of this country.  How is quoting some lame ass pretend Indian supposed to help a damned thing?
Click to expand...

The people doing the occupying say it's their land.  There are differing opinions on that, other than the federal government's.  How is getting the opinion of all sides a bad thing?  Besides, the occupiers said, "if the locals want us to leave, we'll leave".  Are they living up to their word or is that just bullshit?


----------



## koshergrl

bravoactual said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The particular voice that demanded it be dragged into the ninth circus was a demented Obama appointee who has since been retired to the funny farm, after she approached a Mexican drug cartel member to kill a fellow bar member (that she had, incidentally, also been stalking).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to support your claim? So far you have not provided any link that I requested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oregon's top federal prosecutor traveled from commune to the corner office
> UNBELIEVABLE Update - Oregon "Bundy Militia" Standoff - The U.S. Attorney At The Heart of The Hammond Family Problem...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So? The prosecutor is just doing her job. I see no problem there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You asked me to link her lunacy, which I did. I'm glad you have no problem with nutjob stalkers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you still do not provide a link.
> 
> Mainly because you cannot find one.
Click to expand...

 I provided two.


----------



## bodecea

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
Click to expand...

Maybe Allie or Jimbo can answer that one.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you somehow so mentally challenged that you can't link the OPINION piece yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you too stupid to follow links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I am....if you had paid attention I have already commented on the link in the link you provided.   Of course, the question is.....why do you have to provide a link with an imbedded link?   Why not just jump right to the National Review link?   Duh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it also gives a BUNCH OF OTHER LINKS, stupid fuck
Click to expand...

So...you are just admitting you are lazy.  Ok,   no surprise there, Jimbo.


----------



## bodecea

Carla_Danger said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you somehow so mentally challenged that you can't link the OPINION piece yourself?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you too stupid to follow links?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I am....if you had paid attention I have already commented on the link in the link you provided.   Of course, the question is.....why do you have to provide a link with an imbedded link?   Why not just jump right to the National Review link?   Duh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because it also gives a BUNCH OF OTHER LINKS, stupid fuck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> To a bunch of other Neo-Clown sites!  LOL!
Click to expand...

You know.....smart, important sites....for smart people who know all about just being a grass fire stuff.


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's entertaining in a "make fun of the idiot boy" kind of way.
> 
> This is as much fun as the thread in which he confused anyone who didn't believe in the Judeo-Christian god as being an Atheist.   Millions if not Billions of Hindus, Buddhist, and Pagans are surprised to hear that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, and that is not what I said, you fucking liar.
Click to expand...

Sure it is, Jimbo.   You are just full of stupid on a daily basis.   It's fun to laugh at.


----------



## bodecea

ogibillm said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arson can be used to destroy evidence sure, but what other evidence is there that the Hammonds did any poaching? Why would they when they owned plenty of their own land to hunt pests on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sworn testimony of relatives.
Click to expand...

Denigrating the sworn testimony in 3....2...1......    (Even tho the defendants never denied doing that very thing)


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> 
> Native Americans say, "Get the hell out. It's our land not yours."
> 
> Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. That land that is owned by the BLM is public property and owned by all citizens of this country.
> 
> How is quoting *some lame ass pretend Indian *supposed to help a damned thing?
Click to expand...

There it is!


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Arson can be used to destroy evidence sure, but what other evidence is there that the Hammonds did any poaching? Why would they when they owned plenty of their own land to hunt pests on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sworn testimony of relatives.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean that teen kid who had mental problems and should not have been allowed to testify?
> 
> That kid?
Click to expand...

Kha-CHING!!!!!!!


----------



## OldLady

Camp said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anti-Constitution dopes claiming to be "protecting" the Constitution have criminally taken over possession of property owned by the citizens of America. The property they have taken over and are attempting to steal for redistribution under their misinterpretation is in fact, every American citizen's birthright ownership as stipulated and written into the Constitution by the founding fathers.
> 
> Property Clause   Article lV   Section 3   Clause 2
> 
> "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States or of any particular state."
> 
> The founders recognized territories and wrote the ownership and control of those territories into the Constitution. The various states other than the first 13 colonies were territories before they became states. They became states understanding and accepting that unclaimed lands within their borders would remain the property of the United States. The new States did not have resources to protect or care for those lands. They were dependent on protection from US Military forces, Marshalls and courts and the creation of infrastructures and maintenance by federal funds and agencies.
> 
> The property currently being held in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon were a part of Oregon Territory and when Oregon became a state remained US property by virtue of its unclaimed ownership. Portions not acquired by Treaty with Paiute native Americans (in reality, all of it) or direct cash payments to privately owned ranches after Treaties were made with the Paiutes have been the public property of the United State since these various methods of acquiring the property.
> 
> annenbergclassroom.org/page/article-iv-section-3
> 
> heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/4/essays/126/property-clause
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny you think government buildings are owned by the citizens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny you think they aren't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try to walk into a post office in the middle of the night to get your mail
> 
> You'll be slapped with a charge of felony trespass then you can explain to the judge that you own the post office and have the right to enter it whenever you want
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't recall when it was that liberals/lefties became such Fascist ? and they've build up so much hate for their own fellow countrymen and women. it's damn ugly though
> all this over a gawddam BUILDING
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is an old historical building built in the Great Depression and is the visitor center. Occupation by armed men prevents people from visiting the refuge. Why should we be providing utilities to these people? Plus, they are doing more than just occupying a building. They are using our ATV's, trucks, maintenance garage, tools, generators, fuel, etc.
> Does not wanting strangers to come live in your house when you go away for a weekend or holiday make you a fascist? Would you be angry when you came home and a bunch of guys with semi-auto rifles told you they liked your place and had decided to stay for awhile?
Click to expand...

I've changed my mind.


----------



## koshergrl

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
Click to expand...

 Who did that?

Oh that's right. Nobody.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   It was just a grass burn?   You want to go with that?   Sure?
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did that?
> 
> Oh that's right. Nobody.
Click to expand...

How odd that you wish, for whatever bizarre reason you have, to ignore sworn testimony that was never denied by the defendants, Allie.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It obviously was or you would make plain what you think it really was, idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did that?
> 
> Oh that's right. Nobody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How odd that you wish, for whatever bizarre reason you have, to ignore sworn testimony that was never denied by the defendants, Allie.
Click to expand...

 
So they were convicted of poaching?

Nope.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, let's look at the Facts, shall we?
> 
> 'We Are Going to Light Up the Whole Country on Fire': The Arson That Led to the Oregon Militia Standoff | VICE News
> 
> Know what a "wildfire" is?   Know what fast moving 8-10 foot high flames look like?   Think it's ok to commit arson to cover up another crime?  Think it's ok to commit arson and endanger firefighters already in the area?
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn, lol. Backfires are COMMON. The BLM and the property owners in that area are in a collaborative relationship...they help each other fight fires. BACKFIRES are a common and widely used method for controlling fires, and that is exactly what the Hammonds employed. Their backfire destroyed about 140 acres of scrub. The BLM is famous for torching tracts that destroy tens of thousands of acres, and destroy equipment, property, and livestock. This is nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> is arson to cover up poaching a common practice?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who did that?
> 
> Oh that's right. Nobody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How odd that you wish, for whatever bizarre reason you have, to ignore sworn testimony that was never denied by the defendants, Allie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So they were convicted of poaching?
> 
> Nope.
Click to expand...

Poaching is a state crime, is it not?


----------



## Ravi

This is like watching an episode of Parks and Recreation.


----------



## Camp

JimBowie1958 said:


> konradv said:
> 
> 
> 
> Native Americans say, "Get the hell out. It's our land not yours."
> 
> Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. That land that is owned by the BLM is public property and owned by all citizens of this country.
> 
> How is quoting some lame ass pretend Indian supposed to help a damned thing?
Click to expand...

The land designated as a National Wildlife Refuge is not BLM land, it is National Wildlife Refuge land. The BLM properties and land are adjacent and near the wildlife refuge. 

The pretend Indian you reference is seen in recent media reports sitting at the council table of the Wadtika Paiute ruling council of the Burns Paiute Tribe, which is officially recognized by the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the United States Government as a legitimate Indian Tribe. That guy appears, like the rest of the tribe members, to be 100% native American. They have had a continuous reservation system since signing a treaty in the 1870's. 
The tribe is given special privileges to practice cultural and religious events and practices off the reservation and on properties of the National Wildlife Reservation and surrounding BLM lands in the Snowy Mountain Range. 

www.burnspaiute-nsn.gov

nydailynews.com/news/national/oregon-indian-tribe-blast-armed-wildlife-refuge-occupiers-article-1.2488171


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> konradv said:
> 
> 
> 
> Native Americans say, "Get the hell out. It's our land not yours."
> 
> Native tribe blasts Oregon takeover - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. That land that is owned by the BLM is public property and owned by all citizens of this country.
> 
> How is quoting some lame ass pretend Indian supposed to help a damned thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The land designated as a National Wildlife Refuge is not BLM land, it is National Wildlife Refuge land. The BLM properties and land are adjacent and near the wildlife refuge.
> 
> The pretend Indian you reference is seen in recent media reports sitting at the council table of the Wadtika Paiute ruling council of the Burns Paiute Tribe, which is officially recognized by the Bureau of Indian Affairs and the United States Government as a legitimate Indian Tribe. That guy appears, like the rest of the tribe members, to be 100% native American. They have had a continuous reservation system since signing a treaty in the 1870's.
> The tribe is given special privileges to practice cultural and religious events and practices off the reservation and on properties of the National Wildlife Reservation and surrounding BLM lands in the Snowy Mountain Range.
> 
> www.burnspaiute-nsn.gov
> 
> nydailynews.com/news/national/oregon-indian-tribe-blast-armed-wildlife-refuge-occupiers-article-1.2488171
Click to expand...

But, Jimbo is too smart to fall for that.....he's a "pretend Indian".


----------



## NYcarbineer

Ravi said:


> This is like watching an episode of Parks and Recreation.



It's always great when the RWnuts do something so crazy and funny that there's no way to improve it with parody.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Ah...still a one trick pony with your strawman arguments, eh?   Only way you can make a "point", eh?
> Why is it that you keep making up imaginary scenarios/positions for others in your head and then ask others to explain them?



You cannot answer? It isn't a trick question, is opposition to Obama or the current ruler of the party an act of sedition?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...still a one trick pony with your strawman arguments, eh?   Only way you can make a "point", eh?
> Why is it that you keep making up imaginary scenarios/positions for others in your head and then ask others to explain them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot answer? It isn't a trick question, is opposition to Obama or the current ruler of the party an act of sedition?
Click to expand...

Tell us why is it that you keep making up imaginary positions for other posters in your head and then ask them to defend those imaginary positions?


----------



## Uncensored2008

> The locals have showed up and voted in public by raising hands and voice vote telling the Bundy's and militia to leave.



What a load of shit. What percentage of "locals" showed up? The 5 who watch MSNBC and collect Welfare?


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Tell us why is it that you keep making up imaginary positions for other posters in your head and then ask them to defend those imaginary positions?



What "imaginary position" did I make up, shortbus? Be specific.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> Armed occupation of Federal Property is sedition. Considered a pretty serious crime.



It is?  What are you basing this on?

Standard Disclaimer: Yo Shortbus, you said I was "making up positions." Will you be apologizing for lying?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us why is it that you keep making up imaginary positions for other posters in your head and then ask them to defend those imaginary positions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "imaginary position" did I make up, shortbus? Be specific.
Click to expand...

You did not say this?



> Comrade, is voting against Lord Obama in the past an act of "sedition?"
> 
> Will your god order a drone strike?



Why would the person you addressed be called "Comrade" except in your imagination?
Why would the person you addressed refer to President Obama as "Lord Obama" except in your imagination?
Why would voting against President Obama in the past be called an act of sedition except in your imagination?
Why would the person you addressed think of President Obama as their god except in your imagination?

Inquiring minds want to know where in that person's posting history they ever said such things as "Lord Obama" or "Obama is God" or "Comrade" or "voting against Obama is an act of sedition".

Links to such comments please.  I hope that was specific enough.


----------



## Uncensored2008

ogibillm said:


> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?



So then any person at any time is subject to arbitrary penalty based on past acts? For instance I got a speeding ticket 5 years ago. I paid the fine and went to traffic school. According to the leftist position, it would be perfectly fine for the state to send me a demand for an additional million dollars and put 10 points on my license, because they think that the original sentence was to light?

You scumbags are some SCARY motherfuckers, snarling thugs with no respect for law or justice. If we EVER wonder how the Khmer Rouge happened, we need only read your above post.


----------



## Ravi

Uncensored2008 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So then any person at any time is subject to arbitrary penalty based on past acts? For instance I got a speeding ticket 5 years ago. I paid the fine and went to traffic school. According to the leftist position, it would be perfectly fine for the state to send me a demand for an additional million dollars and put 10 points on my license, because they think that the original sentence was to light?
> 
> You scumbags are some SCARY motherfuckers, snarling thugs with no respect for law or justice. If we EVER wonder how the Khmer Rouge happened, we need only read your above post.
Click to expand...

Why aren't you out there with the militiamen, noBalls?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> You did not say this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade, is voting against Lord Obama in the past an act of "sedition?"
> 
> Will your god order a drone strike?
Click to expand...


I did indeed ask it in response to his claim that Bundy et al were guilty of sedition.

So what is "imaginary about it?



> Why would the person you addressed be called "Comrade" except in your imagination?



Aw, poor little leftist fucktards, all you demand is a command economy under an authoritarian state; it's so unfair to identify you as Communists.



> Why would the person you addressed refer to President Obama as "Lord Obama" except in your imagination?



Right, it isn't like you scumbags worship Obama as a god... 








> Why would voting against President Obama in the past be called an act of sedition except in your imagination?



I posed a question, fucktard.

You Communists are not exactly tolerant of competing ideas.








> Why would the person you addressed think of President Obama as their god except in your imagination?



ROFL

I can't imagine, shitferbrains.









> Inquiring minds want to know where in that person's posting history they ever said such things as "Lord Obama" or "Obama is God" or "Comrade" or "voting against Obama is an act of sedition".
> 
> Links to such comments please.  I hope that was specific enough.



You don't have an enquiring mind, you actually think that you're clever; which is fucking hilarious.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Ravi said:


> Why aren't you out there with the militiamen, noBalls?



Why hasn't your little tin god launched a drone strike, Rati?

Why haven't you availed yourself to the free cheese behind the fridge?


----------



## Camp

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us why is it that you keep making up imaginary positions for other posters in your head and then ask them to defend those imaginary positions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "imaginary position" did I make up, shortbus? Be specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did not say this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade, is voting against Lord Obama in the past an act of "sedition?"
> 
> Will your god order a drone strike?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed be called "Comrade" except in your imagination?
> Why would the person you addressed refer to President Obama as "Lord Obama" except in your imagination?
> Why would voting against President Obama in the past be called an act of sedition except in your imagination?
> Why would the person you addressed think of President Obama as their god except in your imagination?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know where in that person's posting history they ever said such things as "Lord Obama" or "Obama is God" or "Comrade" or "voting against Obama is an act of sedition".
> 
> Links to such comments please.  I hope that was specific enough.
Click to expand...

He never gets tired of being mocked and slapped around. Something is wrong with him. Perhaps to many concussions from banging his head against a wall.


----------



## Old Rocks

TyroneSlothrop said:


> BUSTED: Oregon Militia Thugs Caught Falsely Posing As Marine Veterans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image Via YouTube
> 
> Yes, we already knew that the militia thugs who have seized the Malheur Wildlife Refuge are a bunch of wannabe tough guys who think they have valid reasons for being such monumental asshats, but it also turns out that some of them are downright liars who are pretending to be military veterans.
> 
> Brian Cavalier, who is the “personal bodyguard” to Ammon Bundy has told reporters that he served in both Iraq and Afghanistan as a member of the Marines. One tiny problem: the Marine Corps has absolutely no record of him. Why might that be? Because he never enlisted in any branch.
> 
> In addition to Cavalier, Blaine Cooper also claims to be a Marine veteran. The truth, however, is much different: Cooper was on the “Delayed Entry Program” and never even went to boot camp. Guess he realized he wasn’t cut out to be a real hero so now he has to carry a gun and pretend he’s a man.
> 
> Cavalier told reporters recently:
> 
> _“I’m a retired United States Marine, I can rage.”_
> 
> No, you’re a pretend Marine and all you can do is lie.
> 
> When confronted by the media about his false claims of military service, including what the Marines said, Cavalier nervously replied:
> 
> “That’s unfortunate that someone would say that. I’m not commenting on anything. I told you what it is.”


So many of these losers are absolute liars, as well as being complete assholes. The FBI should go through all the pictures of these loons, and I bet there will be a substancial number of them that are felons carrying weapons. Those people should be sent back to prison pronto. Come to think of it, seems to me that one of Cliven Bundy's sons fits that profile. If he is one of the ones there, and there is a photo of him packing, he should be on his way back.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Uncensored2008 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Armed occupation of Federal Property is sedition. Considered a pretty serious crime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is?  What are you basing this on?
> 
> Standard Disclaimer: Yo Shortbus, you said I was "making up positions." Will you be apologizing for lying?
Click to expand...


The very definition of sedition is to incite a rebellion against the government.  That is what Bundy and his followers are doing. 

the definition of sedition

Voting against someone you disagree with is called democracy.


----------



## ClosedCaption

Stolen Valor too?  Sheesh, I'd love to hear the defense for that.  I bet it will include the word Obama and or Democrats


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...by pointing out the FACT that the land owned by the Feds was legally PURCHASED?    And you seem to want to hold out that "will soon be"....something that hasn't happened yet?   Really?   And you accuse ME of "trying to obscure and confuse the issue"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is typical fascist rhetoric at work again; 'the gooberment did it therefore it must be legal.'
> 
> Local government abuse building codes and safety laws all the time to condemn buildings in order to seize them and auction them off in small private auctions to their political supporters to build stadiums and toll roads, etc.
> 
> The Feds have for a long time been abusing conservation laws to reduce the value of land and make farms and ranches money pits so they can then kindly offer to buy the victims out at a new price that does not reflect the economic potential of the land, land that they devalued by mismanaging the surrounding land.
> 
> Have you ever met a Dhimmicrat gooberment official whose ass you didnt reflexively want to kiss?
> 
> I didnt think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.
Click to expand...

A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.


----------



## peach174

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...by pointing out the FACT that the land owned by the Feds was legally PURCHASED?    And you seem to want to hold out that "will soon be"....something that hasn't happened yet?   Really?   And you accuse ME of "trying to obscure and confuse the issue"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is typical fascist rhetoric at work again; 'the gooberment did it therefore it must be legal.'
> 
> Local government abuse building codes and safety laws all the time to condemn buildings in order to seize them and auction them off in small private auctions to their political supporters to build stadiums and toll roads, etc.
> 
> The Feds have for a long time been abusing conservation laws to reduce the value of land and make farms and ranches money pits so they can then kindly offer to buy the victims out at a new price that does not reflect the economic potential of the land, land that they devalued by mismanaging the surrounding land.
> 
> Have you ever met a Dhimmicrat gooberment official whose ass you didnt reflexively want to kiss?
> 
> I didnt think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
Click to expand...



Give it away to other people?
They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Also, the blm doesn't maintain the land that they no longer allow the ranchers to put cows on. The result is that it accumulates a huge mat of dead grass and weeds that poses a huge wildfire threat to all the property that adjoins it. THAT'S why they allow the ranchers to light backfires. Because if they don't, the blm fires will lay waste to everything.


You are so full of shit. The Hammond's were not 'allowed' to set that backfire. In fact, their criminal negligence endangered BLM firefighters that uphill from the fire they illegally started.


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...by pointing out the FACT that the land owned by the Feds was legally PURCHASED?    And you seem to want to hold out that "will soon be"....something that hasn't happened yet?   Really?   And you accuse ME of "trying to obscure and confuse the issue"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is typical fascist rhetoric at work again; 'the gooberment did it therefore it must be legal.'
> 
> Local government abuse building codes and safety laws all the time to condemn buildings in order to seize them and auction them off in small private auctions to their political supporters to build stadiums and toll roads, etc.
> 
> The Feds have for a long time been abusing conservation laws to reduce the value of land and make farms and ranches money pits so they can then kindly offer to buy the victims out at a new price that does not reflect the economic potential of the land, land that they devalued by mismanaging the surrounding land.
> 
> Have you ever met a Dhimmicrat gooberment official whose ass you didnt reflexively want to kiss?
> 
> I didnt think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
Click to expand...

And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.


----------



## peach174

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...by pointing out the FACT that the land owned by the Feds was legally PURCHASED?    And you seem to want to hold out that "will soon be"....something that hasn't happened yet?   Really?   And you accuse ME of "trying to obscure and confuse the issue"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is typical fascist rhetoric at work again; 'the gooberment did it therefore it must be legal.'
> 
> Local government abuse building codes and safety laws all the time to condemn buildings in order to seize them and auction them off in small private auctions to their political supporters to build stadiums and toll roads, etc.
> 
> The Feds have for a long time been abusing conservation laws to reduce the value of land and make farms and ranches money pits so they can then kindly offer to buy the victims out at a new price that does not reflect the economic potential of the land, land that they devalued by mismanaging the surrounding land.
> 
> Have you ever met a Dhimmicrat gooberment official whose ass you didnt reflexively want to kiss?
> 
> I didnt think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
Click to expand...



They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.


----------



## Dot Com

Ravi said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So then any person at any time is subject to arbitrary penalty based on past acts? For instance I got a speeding ticket 5 years ago. I paid the fine and went to traffic school. According to the leftist position, it would be perfectly fine for the state to send me a demand for an additional million dollars and put 10 points on my license, because they think that the original sentence was to light?
> 
> You scumbags are some SCARY motherfuckers, snarling thugs with no respect for law or justice. If we EVER wonder how the Khmer Rouge happened, we need only read your above post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't you out there with the militiamen, noBalls?
Click to expand...

Yeah Dickless Uncensored2008


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*‘Pissed as hell’ rancher blows up at Bundy militants: ‘I’m not going let some other people be my face’*
Harney County resident Georgia Marshall delivered a scathing condemnation of Ammon Bundy’s militants and called on them to end their armed occupation of the nearby Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.


----------



## Weatherman2020

Watching the leftards freak out when their own tactics are used against them is hilarious.


----------



## Uncensored2008

ABikerSailor said:


> The very definition of sedition is to incite a rebellion against the government.  That is what Bundy and his followers are doing.
> 
> the definition of sedition
> 
> Voting against someone you disagree with is called democracy.



{
The *Sedition Act of 1918* (Pub.L. 65–150, 40 Stat. 553, enacted May 16, 1918) was an Act of the United States Congress that extended the Espionage Act of 1917 to cover a broader range of offenses, notably speech and the expression of opinion that cast the government or the war effort in a negative light or interfered with the sale of government bonds.[1]

It forbade the use of "disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language" about the United States government, its flag, or its armed forces or that caused others to view the American government or its institutions with contempt. Those convicted under the act generally received sentences of imprisonment for five to 20 years.[2] The act also allowed the Postmaster General to refuse to deliver mail that met those same standards for punishable speech or opinion. It applied only to times "when the United States is in war." The U.S. was in a declared state of war at the time of passage, involved in the conflict at the time referred to as the Great War but generally later referred to as the First World War.[3] It was repealed on December 13, 1920.[4]}

Sedition Act of 1918 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you were educated or intelligent, you wouldn't be a leftist....


----------



## Old Rocks

Uncensored2008 said:


> The locals have showed up and voted in public by raising hands and voice vote telling the Bundy's and militia to leave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a load of shit. What percentage of "locals" showed up? The 5 who watch MSNBC and collect Welfare?
Click to expand...

My, what a lying asshole you continue to be;



*Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave
*



BY CONRAD WILSON AND RYAN HAAS, OPB _January 7, 2016 at 1:53 PM EST_



Harney County residents in rural Oregon look on as Harney County Sheriff David Ward speaks during a community meeting at the Harney County fairgrounds in Burns, Oregon. Jan. 6, 2016. Hundreds of Harney County residents attended a community meeting to express frustration and support over an armed anti-government militia group that continues to occupy the Malheur National Wildlife Headquarters. Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images

BURNS, Ore. — A building at the Harney County Fairgrounds in rural Oregon was packed to the seams Wednesday night, as local residents discussed an ongoing occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.


Many of the speakers at the meeting said they didn’t agree with the tactics of the armed men who took over the refuge Saturday, led by Ammon Bundy, the son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy. But many of those same residents said they did agree with the message.

RELATED LINKS

The latest news and updates about the armed occupation in Oregon 
Ryan Bundy walks back remarks about ending occupation 
What’s next for the armed militiamen in Oregon? 


Ranchers and other longtime residents said theyfelt their concerns, including land use issues and employment after the decline of the timber industry in Oregon, haven’t been talked about on a national scale until the armed men took over the federal building.

Still, a majority of speakers said they would like the refuge occupiers to leave. Early in the meeting, Harney County Sheriff David Ward asked for a straw poll of who would like the militants to peacefully return to their homes. Nearly every hand in the room shot up.

*When you have this many people from a county over 10,000 square miles in size, with only 7000 people, attending a meeting, they represent the county.*


----------



## ABikerSailor

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *‘Pissed as hell’ rancher blows up at Bundy militants: ‘I’m not going let some other people be my face’*
> Harney County resident Georgia Marshall delivered a scathing condemnation of Ammon Bundy’s militants and called on them to end their armed occupation of the nearby Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.



I wonder if Kosher Girl is going to see this and tell us that the locals still support Bundy.  For some strange reason, she seems to think the locals support the protesters.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

A big scary gun lends a degree of real power even to the variety of *sad, corny-ass losers who invades and occupies what is essentially a fancy birdhouse in the name of ending tyranny.*


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is typical fascist rhetoric at work again; 'the gooberment did it therefore it must be legal.'
> 
> Local government abuse building codes and safety laws all the time to condemn buildings in order to seize them and auction them off in small private auctions to their political supporters to build stadiums and toll roads, etc.
> 
> The Feds have for a long time been abusing conservation laws to reduce the value of land and make farms and ranches money pits so they can then kindly offer to buy the victims out at a new price that does not reflect the economic potential of the land, land that they devalued by mismanaging the surrounding land.
> 
> Have you ever met a Dhimmicrat gooberment official whose ass you didnt reflexively want to kiss?
> 
> I didnt think so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
Click to expand...

If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.


----------



## Dot Com

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> You did not say this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade, is voting against Lord Obama in the past an act of "sedition?"
> 
> Will your god order a drone strike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did indeed ask it in response to his claim that Bundy et al were guilty of sedition.
> 
> So what is "imaginary about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed be called "Comrade" except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aw, poor little leftist fucktards, all you demand is a command economy under an authoritarian state; it's so unfair to identify you as Communists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed refer to President Obama as "Lord Obama" except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, it isn't like you scumbags worship Obama as a god...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would voting against President Obama in the past be called an act of sedition except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posed a question, fucktard.
> 
> You Communists are not exactly tolerant of competing ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed think of President Obama as their god except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROFL
> 
> I can't imagine, shitferbrains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know where in that person's posting history they ever said such things as "Lord Obama" or "Obama is God" or "Comrade" or "voting against Obama is an act of sedition".
> 
> Links to such comments please.  I hope that was specific enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't have an enquiring mind, you actually think that you're clever; which is fucking hilarious.
Click to expand...


----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimBowie1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is typical fascist rhetoric at work again; 'the gooberment did it therefore it must be legal.'
> 
> Local government abuse building codes and safety laws all the time to condemn buildings in order to seize them and auction them off in small private auctions to their political supporters to build stadiums and toll roads, etc.
> 
> The Feds have for a long time been abusing conservation laws to reduce the value of land and make farms and ranches money pits so they can then kindly offer to buy the victims out at a new price that does not reflect the economic potential of the land, land that they devalued by mismanaging the surrounding land.
> 
> Have you ever met a Dhimmicrat gooberment official whose ass you didnt reflexively want to kiss?
> 
> I didnt think so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
Click to expand...

Who's paying for that election?


----------



## bodecea

Ravi said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> they weren't legally sentenced and they did not complete their legal sentence.
> 
> why do you support judicial activism?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So then any person at any time is subject to arbitrary penalty based on past acts? For instance I got a speeding ticket 5 years ago. I paid the fine and went to traffic school. According to the leftist position, it would be perfectly fine for the state to send me a demand for an additional million dollars and put 10 points on my license, because they think that the original sentence was to light?
> 
> You scumbags are some SCARY motherfuckers, snarling thugs with no respect for law or justice. If we EVER wonder how the Khmer Rouge happened, we need only read your above post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't you out there with the militiamen, noBalls?
Click to expand...

An excellent question....Will he have an answer?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> You did not say this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade, is voting against Lord Obama in the past an act of "sedition?"
> 
> Will your god order a drone strike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did indeed ask it in response to his claim that Bundy et al were guilty of sedition.
> 
> So what is "imaginary about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed be called "Comrade" except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aw, poor little leftist fucktards, all you demand is a command economy under an authoritarian state; it's so unfair to identify you as Communists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed refer to President Obama as "Lord Obama" except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, it isn't like you scumbags worship Obama as a god...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would voting against President Obama in the past be called an act of sedition except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posed a question, fucktard.
> 
> You Communists are not exactly tolerant of competing ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed think of President Obama as their god except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROFL
> 
> I can't imagine, shitferbrains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know where in that person's posting history they ever said such things as "Lord Obama" or "Obama is God" or "Comrade" or "voting against Obama is an act of sedition".
> 
> Links to such comments please.  I hope that was specific enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't have an enquiring mind, you actually think that you're clever; which is fucking hilarious.
Click to expand...

The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dot Com said:


> Yeah Dickless Uncensored2008



What a brilliant argument, dog cum.

Just the level I've come to expect from you....


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't you out there with the militiamen, noBalls?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why hasn't your little tin god launched a drone strike, Rati?
> 
> Why haven't you availed yourself to the free cheese behind the fridge?
Click to expand...

Again, tell us why is it that you keep making up imaginary positions for other posters in your head and then ask them to defend those imaginary positions?

Where has Ravi, except in your imagination, said anything about President Obama being her god?
Where has Ravi, except in your imagination said anything about availing herself with some free cheese behind the fridge?
Where is that cheese behind the fridge beyond your imagination?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah Dickless Uncensored2008
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a brilliant argument, dog cum.
> 
> Just the level I've come to expect from you....
Click to expand...

Where, besides in your imagination, did Dot Com make that an argument?
Where, besides in your imagination, did anyone have "dog cum"?


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> An excellent question....Will he have an answer?



Why weren't you burning cars with the White Lives Don't Matter crew in Ferguson, shitferbrains?

It astounds me that you fucktards think you're clever...


----------



## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah Dickless Uncensored2008
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a brilliant argument, dog cum.
> 
> Just the level I've come to expect from you....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where, besides in your imagination, did Dot Com make that an argument?
> Where, besides in your imagination, did anyone have "dog cum"?
Click to expand...

he lives in his own little rw menagerie that he has created for himself, yes


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.



ROFL

What is photoshopped, Shortbus?

You grasp that the third one is a rather famous piece?

No, of course you don't..


----------



## Vigilante




----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Again, tell us why is it that you keep making up imaginary positions for other posters in your head and then ask them to defend those imaginary positions?
> 
> Where has Ravi, except in your imagination, said anything about President Obama being her god?
> Where has Ravi, except in your imagination said anything about availing herself with some free cheese behind the fridge?
> Where is that cheese behind the fridge beyond your imagination?



Again, tell us why you're so fucking retarded?

You have the wit of a golf ball.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dot Com said:


> he lives in his own little rw menagerie that he has created for himself, yes



Taking on you three drooling morons is no problem. Then again, the cumulative IQ of dog cum, Shortbus, and Rati is still at the "idiot" level...


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.
> 
> 
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
Click to expand...

 
OR believes in mob rule. That's what he's saying. And the whole frustration of the rural areas is that the BLM is IGNORING the legislation that is in place. They break the law with impunity, and then hound private citizens who dare to challenge them.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, tell us why is it that you keep making up imaginary positions for other posters in your head and then ask them to defend those imaginary positions?
> 
> Where has Ravi, except in your imagination, said anything about President Obama being her god?
> Where has Ravi, except in your imagination said anything about availing herself with some free cheese behind the fridge?
> Where is that cheese behind the fridge beyond your imagination?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, tell us why you're so fucking retarded?
> 
> You have the wit of a golf ball.
Click to expand...

Where, except in your imagination, is anyone besides yourself retarded?
Where, except in your imagination, does one run a comparison between "wit" and "golf balls"?


----------



## koshergrl

ABikerSailor said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *‘Pissed as hell’ rancher blows up at Bundy militants: ‘I’m not going let some other people be my face’*
> Harney County resident Georgia Marshall delivered a scathing condemnation of Ammon Bundy’s militants and called on them to end their armed occupation of the nearby Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if Kosher Girl is going to see this and tell us that the locals still support Bundy.  For some strange reason, she seems to think the locals support the protesters.
Click to expand...

 That is one local, and she doesn't say that she approves of the blm. What she says is that it used to be worse. I'm not sure that's a ringing endorsement.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OR believes in mob rule. That's what he's saying. And the whole frustration of the rural areas is that the BLM is IGNORING the legislation that is in place. They break the law with impunity, and then hound private citizens who dare to challenge them.
Click to expand...

What is the legislation in place being ignored by the BLM?   Tell us.


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


>


That's why we're laughing at them.


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OR believes in mob rule. That's what he's saying. And the whole frustration of the rural areas is that the BLM is IGNORING the legislation that is in place. They break the law with impunity, and then hound private citizens who dare to challenge them.
Click to expand...

documented example?


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why we're laughing at them.
Click to expand...


Yet OVER 1300 posts on ....NOTHING!


----------



## Camp

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why we're laughing at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet OVER 1300 posts on ....NOTHING!
Click to expand...

More interesting than the steady stream of garbage and lies you flood the site with.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Where, except in your imagination, is anyone besides yourself retarded?
> Where, except in your imagination, does one run a comparison between "wit" and "golf balls"?



This is why I put you on ignore, you're a fucking retard. You are truly the dullest wit on the board. You are seriously too dumb to grasp the majority of what is posted to you.

Run along and play with the marbles in your underwear now...


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> An excellent question....Will he have an answer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why weren't you burning cars with the White Lives Don't Matter crew in Ferguson, shitferbrains?
> 
> It astounds me that you fucktards think you're clever...
Click to expand...

Where else, except in your imagination, have I ever indicated I would be burning cars or even be in Ferguson?
Where else, except in your imagination, have you thought you were clever?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where, except in your imagination, is anyone besides yourself retarded?
> Where, except in your imagination, does one run a comparison between "wit" and "golf balls"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is why I put you on ignore, you're a fucking retard. You are truly the dullest wit on the board. You are seriously too dumb to grasp the majority of what is posted to you.
> 
> Run along and play with the marbles in your underwear now...
Click to expand...

My...what an outstanding job you've done of putting me on Ignore.      In your imagination.


----------



## Vigilante

Camp said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why we're laughing at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet OVER 1300 posts on ....NOTHING!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More interesting than the steady stream of garbage and lies you flood the site with.
Click to expand...


Glad to see it annoys the shit out of FAGERALS!


----------



## bodecea

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> 
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OR believes in mob rule. That's what he's saying. And the whole frustration of the rural areas is that the BLM is IGNORING the legislation that is in place. They break the law with impunity, and then hound private citizens who dare to challenge them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is the legislation in place being ignored by the BLM?   Tell us.
Click to expand...

Well?


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why we're laughing at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet OVER 1300 posts on ....NOTHING!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More interesting than the steady stream of garbage and lies you flood the site with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to see it annoys the shit out of FAGERALS!
Click to expand...

Laughing at them and you does not = "annoys the shit out of"

That would only be indicated by calling a poster foul names.....


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> My...what an outstanding job you've done of putting me on Ignore.      In your imagination.



Wow but you are stupid, dishonest, and pedestrian..

Have you worn away all your teeth with your enraged gnashing and the steady flow of bile?


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why we're laughing at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet OVER 1300 posts on ....NOTHING!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More interesting than the steady stream of garbage and lies you flood the site with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to see it annoys the shit out of FAGERALS!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughing at them and you does not = "annoys the shit out of"
> 
> That would only be indicated by calling a poster foul names.....
Click to expand...


Bull Dyke, when you can borrow a working brain, would you get back to us!


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> My...what an outstanding job you've done of putting me on Ignore.      In your imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow but you are stupid, dishonest, and pedestrian..
> 
> Have you worn away all your teeth with your enraged gnashing and the steady flow of bile?
Click to expand...

Again, congratulations with that awesome job of putting me on Ignore.  It really shows......in your imagination.


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's why we're laughing at them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet OVER 1300 posts on ....NOTHING!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More interesting than the steady stream of garbage and lies you flood the site with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to see it annoys the shit out of FAGERALS!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughing at them and you does not = "annoys the shit out of"
> 
> That would only be indicated by calling a poster foul names.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bull Dyke, when you can borrow a working brain, would you get back to us!
Click to expand...

Remember what I said about what calling posters foul names indicates?     Still laughing at them and at you......that annoys the shit out of you.   Oh well.


----------



## Camp

Vigilante said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why we're laughing at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet OVER 1300 posts on ....NOTHING!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More interesting than the steady stream of garbage and lies you flood the site with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to see it annoys the shit out of FAGERALS!
Click to expand...

You don't get it. Carry on. The people you hate enjoy your performance. It reveals the true nature of a rw Trump supporter.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Again, congratulations with that awesome job of putting me on Ignore.  It really shows......in your imagination.



And you wonder why everyone recognizes that you're stupid as a doorknob...


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, congratulations with that awesome job of putting me on Ignore.  It really shows......in your imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you wonder why everyone recognizes that you're stupid as a doorknob...
Click to expand...

Fabulous Ignore mastering there.   No one can do it better than you.  No sirree bob.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> You don't get it. Carry on. The people you hate enjoy your performance. It reveals the true nature of a rw Trump supporter.



Camp, I've run into you once or twice when you were lucid and able to engage in a rational conversation.

Do you have a calendar where you spend 2 hours out of every week sober? I'm assuming that I've stumbled across those rare moment of sobriety a couple of times...


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet OVER 1300 posts on ....NOTHING!
> 
> 
> 
> More interesting than the steady stream of garbage and lies you flood the site with.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Glad to see it annoys the shit out of FAGERALS!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughing at them and you does not = "annoys the shit out of"
> 
> That would only be indicated by calling a poster foul names.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bull Dyke, when you can borrow a working brain, would you get back to us!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember what I said about what calling posters foul names indicates?     Still laughing at them and at you......that annoys the shit out of you.   Oh well.
Click to expand...


I never pay much attention to Bull Dykes, they are usually smelly, and have fish breath!


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get it. Carry on. The people you hate enjoy your performance. It reveals the true nature of a rw Trump supporter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp, I've run into you once or twice when you were lucid and able to engage in a rational conversation.
> 
> Do you have a calendar where you spend 2 hours out of every week sober? I'm assuming that I've stumbled across those rare moment of sobriety a couple of times...
Click to expand...

Again,  you keep making up imaginary positions for other posters in your head and then ask them to defend those imaginary positions?

Where, except in your imagination, did Camp state that he drinks to the point that he is only sober 2 hours of every week?


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> More interesting than the steady stream of garbage and lies you flood the site with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see it annoys the shit out of FAGERALS!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughing at them and you does not = "annoys the shit out of"
> 
> That would only be indicated by calling a poster foul names.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bull Dyke, when you can borrow a working brain, would you get back to us!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember what I said about what calling posters foul names indicates?     Still laughing at them and at you......that annoys the shit out of you.   Oh well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never pay much attention to Bull Dykes, they are usually smelly, and have fish breath!
Click to expand...

You did stock up on Con-federate flag crying towels, right?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Vigilante said:


> I never pay much attention to Bull Dykes, they are usually smelly, and have fish breath!



Meh, what do you care who Bode has sex with?

She has the intellect of a rotting corpse, which the the pertinent factor here...


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get it. Carry on. The people you hate enjoy your performance. It reveals the true nature of a rw Trump supporter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp, I've run into you once or twice when you were lucid and able to engage in a rational conversation.
> 
> Do you have a calendar where you spend 2 hours out of every week sober? I'm assuming that I've stumbled across those rare moment of sobriety a couple of times...
Click to expand...

Oh come on, your side is getting their asses kicked on this topic and in this thread. You are just trying to hijack the thread and turn it into a personal argument and kill the thread. Sore loser. You and vigi came to the wrong thread for spewing lies and misinformation. You will have to wait till late at night or early morning.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Again,  you keep making up imaginary positions for other posters in your head and then ask them to defend those imaginary positions?
> 
> Where, except in your imagination, did Camp state that he drinks to the point that he is only sober 2 hours of every week?



Again, you have the intellect of a rotting corpse coupled with the wit of a golf ball.


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see it annoys the shit out of FAGERALS!
> 
> 
> 
> Laughing at them and you does not = "annoys the shit out of"
> 
> That would only be indicated by calling a poster foul names.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bull Dyke, when you can borrow a working brain, would you get back to us!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember what I said about what calling posters foul names indicates?     Still laughing at them and at you......that annoys the shit out of you.   Oh well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never pay much attention to Bull Dykes, they are usually smelly, and have fish breath!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did stock up on Con-federate flag crying towels, right?
Click to expand...


Right on top of the Black Lies Matter posters!


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never pay much attention to Bull Dykes, they are usually smelly, and have fish breath!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, what do you care who Bode has sex with?
> 
> She has the intellect of a rotting corpse, which the the pertinent factor here...
Click to expand...

There you go again.  Where, except in your imagination, did you ever come up with measurement on the intellect of a rotting corpse?


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Laughing at them and you does not = "annoys the shit out of"
> 
> That would only be indicated by calling a poster foul names.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bull Dyke, when you can borrow a working brain, would you get back to us!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Remember what I said about what calling posters foul names indicates?     Still laughing at them and at you......that annoys the shit out of you.   Oh well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never pay much attention to Bull Dykes, they are usually smelly, and have fish breath!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did stock up on Con-federate flag crying towels, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right on top of the Black Lies Matter posters!
> 
> View attachment 59126
Click to expand...

Well goodie.  Any more of your butt hurt issues I can help you with?


----------



## Camp

The asshole Bundy's and their half ass militia have done great damage to he cause of anti-BLM ranchers. Their foolishness has caused even those to support them to become more educated on the issue. Those folks have come to realize the proponents of the movement are phony, wrong and truly, welfare ranchers looking for handouts from the American taxpayer.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> Oh come on, your side is getting their asses kicked on this topic and in this thread.



BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh yes, your little friend Bode is just doing swimmingly.



> You are just trying to hijack the thread and turn it into a personal argument and kill the thread.



False, that was Bode.

I employ irony to make a point, which those with an IQ above room temperature grasp. My question regarding the claim of "Sedition" is fully valid. Bode is a clumsy moron who made pretense of wit.

And yes, i will shred the simpering moron every time if she chooses that path.



> Sore loser. You and vigi came to the wrong thread for spewing lies and misinformation. You will have to wait till late at night or early morning.



Oh please do show these "lies" I have posted?

I've illustrated why the perversion of double jeopardy is a serious threat to the the foundation of justice. I understand that bode and the other talking point reciters cannot grasp concepts that deviate from the Soros scripts.

Read back and address my post on the speeding ticket, tell me how this materially differs from what was done to the Hammond's?


----------



## Vigilante

Camp said:


> The asshole Bundy's and their half ass militia have done great damage to he cause of anti-BLM ranchers. Their foolishness has caused even those to support them to become more educated on the issue. Those folks have come to realize the proponents of the movement are phony, wrong and truly, welfare ranchers looking for handouts from the American taxpayer.



Tyranny of our government over our citizens SHOULD BE FOUGHT!


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember what I said about what calling posters foul names indicates?     Still laughing at them and at you......that annoys the shit out of you.   Oh well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never pay much attention to Bull Dykes, they are usually smelly, and have fish breath!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did stock up on Con-federate flag crying towels, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right on top of the Black Lies Matter posters!
> 
> View attachment 59126
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well goodie.  Any more of your butt hurt issues I can help you with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, show us a picture of your wife!
Click to expand...

Tsk!  Tsk!


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never pay much attention to Bull Dykes, they are usually smelly, and have fish breath!
> 
> 
> 
> You did stock up on Con-federate flag crying towels, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right on top of the Black Lies Matter posters!
> 
> View attachment 59126
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well goodie.  Any more of your butt hurt issues I can help you with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, show us a picture of your wife!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!
Click to expand...


You asked, I only told you!


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on, your side is getting their asses kicked on this topic and in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> Oh yes, your little friend Bode is just doing swimmingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are just trying to hijack the thread and turn it into a personal argument and kill the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False, that was Bode.
> 
> I employ irony to make point, which those with an IQ above room temperature grasp. My question regarding the claim of "Sedition" is fully valid. Bode is a clumsy moron who made pretense of wit.
> 
> And yes, i will shred the simpering moron every time if she chooses that path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sore loser. You and vigi came to the wrong thread for spewing lies and misinformation. You will have to wait till late at night or early morning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please do show these "lies" I have posted?
> 
> I've illustrated why the perversion of double jeopardy is a serious threat to the the foundation of justice. I understand that bode and the other talking point reciters cannot grasp concepts that deviate from the Soros scripts.
> 
> Read back and address my post on the speeding ticket, tell me how this materially differs from what was done to the Hammond's?
Click to expand...

There you go again.  Where, except in your imagination, has anyone here expressed a need to follow something called a "Soros script"?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> The asshole Bundy's and their half ass militia have done great damage to he cause of anti-BLM ranchers. Their foolishness has caused even those to support them to become more educated on the issue. Those folks have come to realize the proponents of the movement are phony, wrong and truly, welfare ranchers looking for handouts from the American taxpayer.



Perhaps.

I agree that Bundy is a fool and this action is counter productive.

BUT the infringement of grazing rights by the BLM as directed by the administration is a regressive act that impacts the cost of food and affects the lowest income people substantially. So my condemnation of Bundy in no way leads to support of a BLM that is out of control as all Obama agencies are.


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> You did stock up on Con-federate flag crying towels, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right on top of the Black Lies Matter posters!
> 
> View attachment 59126
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well goodie.  Any more of your butt hurt issues I can help you with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, show us a picture of your wife!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You asked, I only told you!
Click to expand...

Tsk!  Tsk!    

I see your butt hurt has led you to a meltdown.  Have you no control?


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh come on, your side is getting their asses kicked on this topic and in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> Oh yes, your little friend Bode is just doing swimmingly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are just trying to hijack the thread and turn it into a personal argument and kill the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> False, that was Bode.
> 
> I employ irony to make point, which those with an IQ above room temperature grasp. My question regarding the claim of "Sedition" is fully valid. Bode is a clumsy moron who made pretense of wit.
> 
> And yes, i will shred the simpering moron every time if she chooses that path.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sore loser. You and vigi came to the wrong thread for spewing lies and misinformation. You will have to wait till late at night or early morning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please do show these "lies" I have posted?
> 
> I've illustrated why the perversion of double jeopardy is a serious threat to the the foundation of justice. I understand that bode and the other talking point reciters cannot grasp concepts that deviate from the Soros scripts.
> 
> Read back and address my post on the speeding ticket, tell me how this materially differs from what was done to the Hammond's?
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with armed men taking over a federal facility. It is, as I said, a distraction and deflection away from the topic.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The asshole Bundy's and their half ass militia have done great damage to he cause of anti-BLM ranchers. Their foolishness has caused even those to support them to become more educated on the issue. Those folks have come to realize the proponents of the movement are phony, wrong and truly, welfare ranchers looking for handouts from the American taxpayer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps.
> 
> I agree that Bundy is a fool and this action is counter productive.
> 
> BUT the infringement of grazing rights by the BLM as directed by the administration is a regressive act that impacts the cost of food and affects the lowest income people substantially. So my condemnation of Bundy in no way leads to support of a BLM that is out of control as all Obama agencies are.
Click to expand...

How has the BLM infringed grazing rights?


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right on top of the Black Lies Matter posters!
> 
> View attachment 59126
> 
> 
> 
> Well goodie.  Any more of your butt hurt issues I can help you with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure, show us a picture of your wife!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You asked, I only told you!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!
> 
> I see your butt hurt has led you to a meltdown.  Have you no control?
Click to expand...


It did?.....BWABWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well goodie.  Any more of your butt hurt issues I can help you with?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, show us a picture of your wife!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You asked, I only told you!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!
> 
> I see your butt hurt has led you to a meltdown.  Have you no control?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It did?.....BWABWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Click to expand...

Tsk!  Tsk!   You are out of control when you resort to family attacks.  Tsk!  Tsk!


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The asshole Bundy's and their half ass militia have done great damage to he cause of anti-BLM ranchers. Their foolishness has caused even those to support them to become more educated on the issue. Those folks have come to realize the proponents of the movement are phony, wrong and truly, welfare ranchers looking for handouts from the American taxpayer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps.
> 
> I agree that Bundy is a fool and this action is counter productive.
> 
> BUT the infringement of grazing rights by the BLM as directed by the administration is a regressive act that impacts the cost of food and affects the lowest income people substantially. So my condemnation of Bundy in no way leads to support of a BLM that is out of control as all Obama agencies are.
Click to expand...

The BLM has the fiduciary responsibility to make the optimal use of the lands they manage. Exceptions can be made with and by acts of congress or executive action. Otherwise, the BLM has its hands tied in many of these situations.


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, show us a picture of your wife!
> 
> 
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You asked, I only told you!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!
> 
> I see your butt hurt has led you to a meltdown.  Have you no control?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It did?.....BWABWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!   You are out of control when you resort to family attacks.  Tsk!  Tsk!
Click to expand...


YOU have a family?... Hatchlings don't have a family!


----------



## Ravi

Uncensored2008 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't you out there with the militiamen, noBalls?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I have no balls?
Click to expand...

Yep.


----------



## Dot Com

Dickless (nonsense2008) gets worked up so easily. I thought people in Cali weren't so serious  When I lived there, most all people were laid back


----------



## Old Rocks

U.S. Drought Monitor | U.S. Drought Portal

Now the conditions in Eastern Oregon are improving, but if you look at that map, you can readily see that the area is still in a severe drought. Now in a drought situation, BLM has the responsibility to maintain the range. That often means reducing the number of head that can graze in a given area. And that means that nobody is going to be happy. But the BLM did not create the drought, and the letting the land be overgrazed will destroy the value of the land for grazing when the rains and snow comes back. Plain sanity.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Oregon* residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave PBS NewsHour


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Death threats from ranchers reported years before standoff*
OregonLive.com  - ‎Jan 6, 2016‎




Years before the arson fires that sent two *Oregon* ranchers to federal prison - sparking an armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge - federal officials reported several death threats from the men.


----------



## Stephanie

who are the assholes?
snip;
*Does the Constitution Grant the Federal Government the Power to Legislate over Land within the Several States?
By Robert Greenslade © Nitwit Press*

*Mission Statement* Revised 8.04.04

* Editorial Policy* Revised 3.19.04

* *

February 06, 2006

If the federal government had been granted general legislative authority, as many believe, then that government would have exclusive jurisdiction over all persons and things throughout the United States. That would include all land within the several States.* The American people might be surprised to learn that the Constitution bars the federal government from exercising legislative jurisdiction over any land, within the several States, unless it first obtains permission from the legislature of that State. This little known fact is simply another component of the federal system of government established by the Constitution.*

In order to understand the federal government's limited power concerning land within the several States, it is first necessary to review the proceedings in the Federal [Constitutional] Convention of 1787. On September 5, it was proposed that Congress should have the power:

all of it here:
Does the Constitution Grant the Federal Government the Power to Legislate over Land within the Several States? By Robert Greenslade - Price of Liberty


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Slapstick *
*Arizonans fight at occupied Oregon building*
Source: *Arizona Daily Star*

A Tucson group met with a harsh welcome from a fellow Arizonan at a federal building occupied by armed militia in Oregon. 

Three men led by Michael Lewis Arthur Meyer, founder of the Veterans on Patrol group that built a shelter for homeless veterans and others at Santa Rita Park, arrived in Burns, Oregon on Wednesday to get a friend out of the occupied Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. 

The Oregonian newspaper reported a fight broke out between Meyer’s group and militant group member Blaine Cooper, who said on his Facebook page he is a resident of Humboldt, Arizona. 

Meyer said Cooper punched him in the back of the head, but Phoenix resident Jon Ritzheimer said Meyer’s group shoved a guard, causing him to bloody his hand.

Read more: Arizonans fight at occupied Oregon building


----------



## Hutch Starskey

Stephanie said:


> Mad Scientist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupying public property is now terrorism. Unless you're left-wing, then it's "social justice" (Occupy Wall Street).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well of course. we have to remember that double standard. this public property was stolen by the Guberment so it will be classified as , Terrorism
Click to expand...




Stephanie said:


> this public property was stolen by the Guberment


----------



## JimBowie1958

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.
> 
> 
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
Click to expand...

You dont speak for Oregon, fruticake


----------



## JimBowie1958

TyroneSlothrop said:


> A big scary gun lends a degree of real power even to the variety of *sad, corny-ass losers who invades and occupies what is essentially a fancy birdhouse in the name of ending tyranny.*


How would you know that unless that is how a gun affects you, loser?


----------



## JimBowie1958

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, the blm doesn't maintain the land that they no longer allow the ranchers to put cows on. The result is that it accumulates a huge mat of dead grass and weeds that poses a huge wildfire threat to all the property that adjoins it. THAT'S why they allow the ranchers to light backfires. Because if they don't, the blm fires will lay waste to everything.
> 
> 
> 
> You are so full of shit. The Hammond's were not 'allowed' to set that backfire. In fact, their criminal negligence endangered BLM firefighters that uphill from the fire they illegally started.
Click to expand...

You are such a fucking liar. The hammonds notified the fire department which is all anyone normally has to do.

The BLM wants the Hammonds land to grow their management holdings and to fuck with the  Hammonds for daring to get uppity with them.

Grow some honesty, you old shit.


----------



## peach174

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The federal government doesn't own shit. They HOLD that land for the PEOPLE.
> 
> 
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
Click to expand...



Gee Wiz
That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get rid of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.


----------



## Old Rocks

JimBowie1958 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You dont speak for Oregon, fruticake
Click to expand...

I live in Oregon, and work in Oregon. I speak far more for Oregon than someone living in Virginia.


----------



## Stephanie

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gee Wiz
> That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.
Click to expand...


BUT but but, they were smelly non working liberals/unions paying for it and camping out for day on end in the PEOPLES capital. so you know that's just DIFFERENT. what losers


----------



## Seawytch

koshergrl said:


> And at the bottom of this...MANDATORY SENTENCING, which everybody agrees is idiotic..does ANYBODY approve of mandatory sentencing? Anywhere?



Yes, Republicans do when they are instituting mandatory minimums for drug possession. Reagan was big on Mandatory Minimums in his "war on drugs". 

_For his first five years in office, Reagan slowly strengthened drug enforcement by creating mandatory minimum sentencing and forfeiture of cash and real estate for drug offenses, policies far more detrimental to poor blacks than any other sector affected by the new laws.[citation needed]

Then, driven by the 1986 cocaine overdose of black basketball star Len Bias,[dubious – discuss] Reagan was able to pass the Anti-Drug Abuse Act through Congress. This legislation appropriated an additional $1.7 billion to fund the War on Drugs. More importantly, it established 29 new, mandatory minimum sentences for drug offenses._​


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL
> 
> What is photoshopped, Shortbus?
> 
> You grasp that the third one is a rather famous piece?
> 
> No, of course you don't..
Click to expand...

If you had paid attention, which you didn't, I was asking you for EVIDENCE that the person you were addressing on this thread said or believed those things.   And then you go pull some photoshopped stuff off the internet instead.    Not very bright, are you?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, congratulations with that awesome job of putting me on Ignore.  It really shows......in your imagination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you wonder why everyone recognizes that you're stupid as a doorknob...
Click to expand...

Where else, besides in your imagination, you speak for "everyone"?


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You asked, I only told you!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!
> 
> I see your butt hurt has led you to a meltdown.  Have you no control?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It did?.....BWABWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tsk!  Tsk!   You are out of control when you resort to family attacks.  Tsk!  Tsk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOU have a family?... Hatchlings don't have a family!
Click to expand...

Tsk!  Tsk!....Being unable to stop such unwarranted family attacks indicates a lack of control on your part.


----------



## Camp

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gee Wiz
> That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get rid of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.
Click to expand...

The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?


----------



## bodecea

JimBowie1958 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> A government of the people, for the people, by the people. It was settled at Harpers Ferry what should be the fate of people that do armed takeovers of Federal Property. Yes, as one of the people, I want those assholes off that property, it belongs to all citizens, not to a bunch of yahoos with an arsenal that want to give it away to people that are telling them to get the hell out of their county.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You dont speak for Oregon, fruticake
Click to expand...

Do you speak for Oregon, Jimbo?


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> 
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gee Wiz
> That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get rid of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
Click to expand...

RWrs don't do very well with comparisons/analogies.


----------



## Ravi

Will the militia dudes let the park service peeps in to unclog the toilets?


----------



## Camp

Remember a  few days ago when Bundy said that if the community asked them to leave they would leave? He lied. They community asked him to leave and he changed his mind. The sheriff met with him in person outside of the complex and offered to escort Bundy and his armed companions out of the state of Oregon. Bundy said no, he was not going to leave.
The situation will now transform into a crisis and is headed to being a very bad situation.


----------



## peach174

Camp said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give it away to other people?
> They want the State of Oregon to manage the Wild Reserve, not the Feds.
> 
> 
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gee Wiz
> That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get rid of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
Click to expand...



And one tore up government property and the other has not.
Do you comprehend the difference?


----------



## bodecea

Ravi said:


> Will the militia dudes let the park service peeps in to unclog the toilets?


Oh, just imagine the log-jams.....


----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gee Wiz
> That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get rid of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
Click to expand...

How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?


----------



## jon_berzerk

ravi demonstrates 

that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government 

--LOL


----------



## peach174

bodecea said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> 
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gee Wiz
> That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get rid of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
Click to expand...



What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
That's right none.
The left do it consistently.


----------



## Camp

peach174 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And did anyone bother to ask the state of Oregon about that? Those are outsider assholes, they have no say in the matter at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They want to have the people of Oregon to vote on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Gee Wiz
> That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get rid of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
Click to expand...

You think those two things are comparable? Really. One would require a cleaning crew and repair of what you allege has been "torn up". The other would require funerals and medical expenses.


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL


was that supposed to be profound?


----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> If we citizens of Oregon wanted a vote on that, we would have it on a ballot. Confine your insanity to your own state, we Oregonians want none of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gee Wiz
> That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get rid of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
Click to expand...

No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL


It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.


----------



## jon_berzerk

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> was that supposed to be profound?
Click to expand...


no 

simply an observation based on libtard postings


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
Click to expand...



well the way it sits these days 

if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee Wiz
> That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get rid of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
Click to expand...

Local ranchers who have visited the refuge and the occupants say it's never looked so clean and well cared for.


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> was that supposed to be profound?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings
Click to expand...

An observation, eh....give us some of the evidence you base your observation on....


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Local ranchers who have visited the refuge and the occupants say it's never looked so clean and well cared for.
Click to expand...

Riiiiiight.   So says a poster who demonstrated yesterday that she knows nothing about that area.


----------



## peach174

bodecea said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gee Wiz
> That is the exact same thing that was said when outsiders came to get rid of Gov. Scott and tore up a Gov. building.
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
Click to expand...



So based on evidence that the left always destroys private and public property and so far none on the right is not evidence?


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
Click to expand...

Yes, it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
Click to expand...



sure what ever 

try using it for your own purposes some time


----------



## jon_berzerk

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> was that supposed to be profound?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An observation, eh....give us some of the evidence you base your observation on....
Click to expand...


i did loser 

i referenced ravis post


----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So based on evidence that the left always destroys private and public property and so far none on the right is not evidence?
Click to expand...

Lol....where did you get THAT sweeping statement from? ..lolol


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
Click to expand...

Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> was that supposed to be profound?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An observation, eh....give us some of the evidence you base your observation on....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i did loser
> 
> i referenced ravis post
Click to expand...

That observation of yours has nothing in the way of evidence to back it up.  Why did you lie?


----------



## peach174

bodecea said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
> 
> 
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So based on evidence that the left always destroys private and public property and so far none on the right is not evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol....where did you get THAT sweeping statement from? ..lolol
Click to expand...



It's called evidence.


----------



## jon_berzerk

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> was that supposed to be profound?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An observation, eh....give us some of the evidence you base your observation on....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i did loser
> 
> i referenced ravis post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That observation of yours has nothing in the way of evidence to back it up.  Why did you lie?
Click to expand...


the evidence is the ravi post 

how about this 

i know you lost this one 

you know you lost this one 

i will give you the last post 

because i dont really give a damn


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
Click to expand...

They just don't seem to get that, do they?


----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So based on evidence that the left always destroys private and public property and so far none on the right is not evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol....where did you get THAT sweeping statement from? ..lolol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's called evidence.
Click to expand...

Where is your evidence to back your "always" statement?


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
Click to expand...



*Why do you suppose they have a visitor center*

because that is what you are 

* a visitor not a owner 

*


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> was that supposed to be profound?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An observation, eh....give us some of the evidence you base your observation on....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i did loser
> 
> i referenced ravis post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That observation of yours has nothing in the way of evidence to back it up.  Why did you lie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the evidence is the ravi post
> 
> how about this
> 
> i know you lost this one
> 
> you know you lost this one
> 
> i will give you the last post
> 
> because i dont really give a damn
Click to expand...

There is NOTHING in Ravi's post you can use as evidence...why are you lying about this?


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Why do you suppose they have a visitor center*
> 
> because that is what you are
> 
> * a visitor not a owner
> *
Click to expand...

Lolol...that's what you're going with?


----------



## jon_berzerk

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Why do you suppose they have a visitor center*
> 
> because that is what you are
> 
> * a visitor not a owner
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lolol...that's what you're going with?
Click to expand...



are you profoundly stupid or a troll


----------



## Camp

bodecea said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They just don't seem to get that, do they?
Click to expand...

The assholes have done irreparable damage to their cause. They have brought attention to the fact that the cause is not a legitimate cause and it threatens to take away resources and property set aside for the general public and future generations, i.e., our children and grandchildren. It is our property, granted to us by the founders in the Constitution and some greedy individuals are trying to steal it with the threat of violence.


----------



## Tilly

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings
> 
> 
> 
> An observation, eh....give us some of the evidence you base your observation on....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i did loser
> 
> i referenced ravis post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That observation of yours has nothing in the way of evidence to back it up.  Why did you lie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the evidence is the ravi post
> 
> how about this
> 
> i know you lost this one
> 
> you know you lost this one
> 
> i will give you the last post
> 
> because i dont really give a damn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is NOTHING in Ravi's post you can use as evidence...why are you lying about this?
Click to expand...

Why are you trolling so much today?


----------



## Tilly

*Harney County sheriff says militia group is no longer welcome, but many local residents say they’re sympathetic to the cause*

...But many in rural Harney County, Oregon’s largest but also one of its most populated counties, say they are glad that brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy and others in the group of about 20 are here.

“I think they stand for a good cause,” said Linda Gainer, co-owner of The Narrows, a cafe/general store south of Burns and just a few miles north of the refuge, standing behind her counter on Tuesday afternoon. “Our constitutional rights are being destroyed. I’m not going to say I totally agree with the way they did it, but I agree with what they stand for.”...

Harney County sheriff says militia group is no longer welcome, but many local residents say they’re sympathetic to the cause | Local | Eugene, Oregon


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Why do you suppose they have a visitor center*
> 
> because that is what you are
> 
> * a visitor not a owner
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lolol...that's what you're going with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you profoundly stupid or a troll
Click to expand...

Do you always call people asking you to back up your assertions "stupid or a troll"?


----------



## peach174

bodecea said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
> 
> 
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So based on evidence that the left always destroys private and public property and so far none on the right is not evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol....where did you get THAT sweeping statement from? ..lolol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's called evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence to back your "always" statement?
Click to expand...



Video and news.


----------



## Tilly

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *Why do you suppose they have a visitor center*
> 
> because that is what you are
> 
> * a visitor not a owner
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lolol...that's what you're going with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you profoundly stupid or a troll
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you always call people asking you to back up your assertions "stupid or a troll"?
Click to expand...

When they are trolling, I expect so.


----------



## bodecea

Tilly said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> An observation, eh....give us some of the evidence you base your observation on....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i did loser
> 
> i referenced ravis post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That observation of yours has nothing in the way of evidence to back it up.  Why did you lie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the evidence is the ravi post
> 
> how about this
> 
> i know you lost this one
> 
> you know you lost this one
> 
> i will give you the last post
> 
> because i dont really give a damn
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is NOTHING in Ravi's post you can use as evidence...why are you lying about this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why are you trolling so much today?
Click to expand...

What is "trolling" about asking someone to back up their assertions with some evidence?


----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So based on evidence that the left always destroys private and public property and so far none on the right is not evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol....where did you get THAT sweeping statement from? ..lolol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's called evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence to back your "always" statement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Video and news.
Click to expand...

What video?  What news?   Remember....you said "always".


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL


Actually, going back to this first post of yours, jon......you don't reference any of Ravi's posts whatsoever....so you continue to lie.


----------



## bodecea

Tilly said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Why do you suppose they have a visitor center*
> 
> because that is what you are
> 
> * a visitor not a owner
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lolol...that's what you're going with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you profoundly stupid or a troll
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you always call people asking you to back up your assertions "stupid or a troll"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When they are trolling, I expect so.
Click to expand...

So...the new definition of "trolling" is to have the nerve to ask another poster to back up their assertions with some facts or evidence?

Interesting.


----------



## Tilly

bodecea said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Why do you suppose they have a visitor center*
> 
> because that is what you are
> 
> * a visitor not a owner
> *
> 
> 
> 
> Lolol...that's what you're going with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> are you profoundly stupid or a troll
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you always call people asking you to back up your assertions "stupid or a troll"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When they are trolling, I expect so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So...the new definition of "trolling" is to have the nerve to ask another poster to back up their assertions with some facts or evidence?
> 
> Interesting.
Click to expand...

Yawn.


----------



## koshergrl

Tilly said:


> *Harney County sheriff says militia group is no longer welcome, but many local residents say they’re sympathetic to the cause*
> 
> ...But many in rural Harney County, Oregon’s largest but also one of its most populated counties, say they are glad that brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy and others in the group of about 20 are here.
> 
> “I think they stand for a good cause,” said Linda Gainer, co-owner of The Narrows, a cafe/general store south of Burns and just a few miles north of the refuge, standing behind her counter on Tuesday afternoon. “Our constitutional rights are being destroyed. I’m not going to say I totally agree with the way they did it, but I agree with what they stand for.”...
> 
> Harney County sheriff says militia group is no longer welcome, but many local residents say they’re sympathetic to the cause | Local | Eugene, Oregon


They won't tell the press they approve because the blm will make their lives even more awful than they already have.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Harney County sheriff says militia group is no longer welcome, but many local residents say they’re sympathetic to the cause*
> 
> ...But many in rural Harney County, Oregon’s largest but also one of its most populated counties, say they are glad that brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy and others in the group of about 20 are here.
> 
> “I think they stand for a good cause,” said Linda Gainer, co-owner of The Narrows, a cafe/general store south of Burns and just a few miles north of the refuge, standing behind her counter on Tuesday afternoon. “Our constitutional rights are being destroyed. I’m not going to say I totally agree with the way they did it, but I agree with what they stand for.”...
> 
> Harney County sheriff says militia group is no longer welcome, but many local residents say they’re sympathetic to the cause | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> 
> 
> They won't tell the press they approve because the blm will make their lives even more awful than they already have.
Click to expand...

Ah, it's all a conspiracy......the BLM is so all powerful that they silence the county people....and yet not powerful enough to either get those deadbeat squatters off the land or even to get Clive Bundy to pay his overdue bills.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
Click to expand...

The Bundys are using it for the purposes of the people. You do understand the buildings were locked up and shuttered against use, right?


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Harney County sheriff says militia group is no longer welcome, but many local residents say they’re sympathetic to the cause*
> 
> ...But many in rural Harney County, Oregon’s largest but also one of its most populated counties, say they are glad that brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy and others in the group of about 20 are here.
> 
> “I think they stand for a good cause,” said Linda Gainer, co-owner of The Narrows, a cafe/general store south of Burns and just a few miles north of the refuge, standing behind her counter on Tuesday afternoon. “Our constitutional rights are being destroyed. I’m not going to say I totally agree with the way they did it, but I agree with what they stand for.”...
> 
> Harney County sheriff says militia group is no longer welcome, but many local residents say they’re sympathetic to the cause | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> 
> 
> They won't tell the press they approve because the blm will make their lives even more awful than they already have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, it's all a conspiracy......the BLM is so all powerful that they silence the county people....and yet not powerful enough to either get those deadbeat squatters off the land or even to get Clive Bundy to pay his overdue bills.
Click to expand...

Yes, and when they can't silence e them, they get the Fed's to drag them to prison. Back on ignore for the sites stupidest troll.


----------



## peach174

bodecea said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So based on evidence that the left always destroys private and public property and so far none on the right is not evidence?
> 
> 
> 
> Lol....where did you get THAT sweeping statement from? ..lolol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's called evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence to back your "always" statement?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Video and news.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What video?  What news?   Remember....you said "always".
Click to expand...



Well as soon as video shows that right wing protesters destroy government property it is still always. Eh?


----------



## mamooth

Y'all-Qaeda is having some problems.

Tearful militant discovers friend drank away donation money: ‘It’s like finding out there is no such thing as Santa’
---
heartbroken militiaman announced that one of his buddies had walked off the Oregon nature preserve they had overtaken and had holed up in a local motel to drink away donation money.

Joe Oshaugnessy, an Arizona militiaman, has been actively seeking volunteers through social media to join the occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

But his friends tearfully announced that Oshaugnessy, who is known as “Capt. O,” had left the refuge Wednesday and was instead staying at a motel nearby — as some others associated with the militants have apparently been doing, according to sources.

Some of the militants have reportedly been spotted eating at area restaurants during the standoff, as well.
---

Sigh. It appears that the lure of booze, free HBO and the Denny's breakfast special was just too much for these brave freedom fighters to resist.

Now, one may wonder why Y'all-Qaeda is allowed to come and go without being arrested, but you see the logic of it here. It's not just about stopping this group. It's about letting that group humiliate and discredit the whole movement, which they are doing admirably.

Oh, you know what awaits a Y'all-Qaeda member in paradise after he's martyred?

72 cousins.

Ba-dum-dum.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Bundys are using it for the purposes of the people. You do understand the buildings were locked up and shuttered against use, right?
Click to expand...

If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary. The fact that the caretakers and managers of the property locked and shuttered the doors does not in any way or circumstance indicate abandonment.
As far as using the property for the people, that is just ridiculous. They were not assigned any task by the owners or managers and they are not elected to make any decision about how the property is used. They are trespassers and burglars. plain and simple.


----------



## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Harney County sheriff says militia group is no longer welcome, but many local residents say they’re sympathetic to the cause*
> 
> ...But many in rural Harney County, Oregon’s largest but also one of its most populated counties, say they are glad that brothers Ammon and Ryan Bundy and others in the group of about 20 are here.
> 
> “I think they stand for a good cause,” said Linda Gainer, co-owner of The Narrows, a cafe/general store south of Burns and just a few miles north of the refuge, standing behind her counter on Tuesday afternoon. “Our constitutional rights are being destroyed. I’m not going to say I totally agree with the way they did it, but I agree with what they stand for.”...
> 
> Harney County sheriff says militia group is no longer welcome, but many local residents say they’re sympathetic to the cause | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> 
> 
> They won't tell the press they approve because the blm will make their lives even more awful than they already have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah, it's all a conspiracy......the BLM is so all powerful that they silence the county people....and yet not powerful enough to either get those deadbeat squatters off the land or even to get Clive Bundy to pay his overdue bills.
Click to expand...

in Allies mind? Yes.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is Bundy and his group that are demanding help from the government and taxpayers. They want the real estate that has been the people's property for hundreds of years and the property that has been purchased with taxpayer funds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Bundys are using it for the purposes of the people. You do understand the buildings were locked up and shuttered against use, right?
Click to expand...


Visitor center closed for the season.
The refuge property is closed because an unknown number of armed individuals have currently occupied the facility.

Home - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service


----------



## Dot Com

mamooth said:


> Y'all-Qaeda is having some problems.
> 
> Tearful militant discovers friend drank away donation money: ‘It’s like finding out there is no such thing as Santa’
> ---
> heartbroken militiaman announced that one of his buddies had walked off the Oregon nature preserve they had overtaken and had holed up in a local motel to drink away donation money.
> 
> Joe Oshaugnessy, an Arizona militiaman, has been actively seeking volunteers through social media to join the occupation of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> But his friends tearfully announced that Oshaugnessy, who is known as “Capt. O,” had left the refuge Wednesday and was instead staying at a motel nearby — as some others associated with the militants have apparently been doing, according to sources.
> 
> Some of the militants have reportedly been spotted eating at area restaurants during the standoff, as well.
> ---
> 
> Sigh. It appears that the lure of booze, free HBO and the Denny's breakfast special was just too much for these brave freedom fighters to resist.
> 
> Now, one may wonder why Y'all-Qaeda is allowed to come and go without being arrested, but you see the logic of it here. It's not just about stopping this group. It's about letting that group humiliate and discredit the whole movement, which they are doing admirably.
> 
> Oh, you know what awaits a Y'all-Qaeda member in paradise after he's martyred?
> 
> 72 cousins.
> 
> Ba-dum-dum.


This is delicious news


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*


who threatened who?  I think your post gives the wrong perception.  You made it like the militia was threatening people when in fact it is the 74 year old mother doing it.  hmmmmmmmmmmm


----------



## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The locals have showed up and voted in public by raising hands and voice vote telling the Bundy's and militia to leave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a load of shit. What percentage of "locals" showed up? The 5 who watch MSNBC and collect Welfare?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My, what a lying asshole you continue to be;
> 
> 
> 
> *Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave*
> 
> BY CONRAD WILSON AND RYAN HAAS, OPB _January 7, 2016 at 1:53 PM EST_
> 
> 
> 
> Harney County residents in rural Oregon look on as Harney County Sheriff David Ward speaks during a community meeting at the Harney County fairgrounds in Burns, Oregon. Jan. 6, 2016. Hundreds of Harney County residents attended a community meeting to express frustration and support over an armed anti-government militia group that continues to occupy the Malheur National Wildlife Headquarters. Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images
> 
> BURNS, Ore. — A building at the Harney County Fairgrounds in rural Oregon was packed to the seams Wednesday night, as local residents discussed an ongoing occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> 
> Many of the speakers at the meeting said they didn’t agree with the tactics of the armed men who took over the refuge Saturday, led by Ammon Bundy, the son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy. But many of those same residents said they did agree with the message.
> 
> RELATED LINKS
> 
> The latest news and updates about the armed occupation in Oregon
> Ryan Bundy walks back remarks about ending occupation
> What’s next for the armed militiamen in Oregon?
> 
> 
> Ranchers and other longtime residents said theyfelt their concerns, including land use issues and employment after the decline of the timber industry in Oregon, haven’t been talked about on a national scale until the armed men took over the federal building.
> 
> Still, a majority of speakers said they would like the refuge occupiers to leave. Early in the meeting, Harney County Sheriff David Ward asked for a straw poll of who would like the militants to peacefully return to their homes. Nearly every hand in the room shot up.
> 
> *When you have this many people from a county over 10,000 square miles in size, with only 7000 people, attending a meeting, they represent the county.*
Click to expand...



Who is the lying asshole, scumbag?

From the article;

{

Many of the speakers at the meeting said they didn’t agree with the tactics of the armed men who took over the refuge Saturday, led by Ammon Bundy, the son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy. But many of those same residents said they did agree with the message.}


Look, if you weren't stupid, you wouldn't be a leftist.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dot Com said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> You did not say this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade, is voting against Lord Obama in the past an act of "sedition?"
> 
> Will your god order a drone strike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did indeed ask it in response to his claim that Bundy et al were guilty of sedition.
> 
> So what is "imaginary about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed be called "Comrade" except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aw, poor little leftist fucktards, all you demand is a command economy under an authoritarian state; it's so unfair to identify you as Communists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed refer to President Obama as "Lord Obama" except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, it isn't like you scumbags worship Obama as a god...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would voting against President Obama in the past be called an act of sedition except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posed a question, fucktard.
> 
> You Communists are not exactly tolerant of competing ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed think of President Obama as their god except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROFL
> 
> I can't imagine, shitferbrains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know where in that person's posting history they ever said such things as "Lord Obama" or "Obama is God" or "Comrade" or "voting against Obama is an act of sedition".
> 
> Links to such comments please.  I hope that was specific enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't have an enquiring mind, you actually think that you're clever; which is fucking hilarious.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



^^^^^^^^^^
Just in case anyone failed to notice that dog cum is mentally retarded and can't follow the conversation....


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.



Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.

Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone


Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The locals have showed up and voted in public by raising hands and voice vote telling the Bundy's and militia to leave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a load of shit. What percentage of "locals" showed up? The 5 who watch MSNBC and collect Welfare?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My, what a lying asshole you continue to be;
> 
> 
> 
> *Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave*
> 
> BY CONRAD WILSON AND RYAN HAAS, OPB _January 7, 2016 at 1:53 PM EST_
> 
> 
> 
> Harney County residents in rural Oregon look on as Harney County Sheriff David Ward speaks during a community meeting at the Harney County fairgrounds in Burns, Oregon. Jan. 6, 2016. Hundreds of Harney County residents attended a community meeting to express frustration and support over an armed anti-government militia group that continues to occupy the Malheur National Wildlife Headquarters. Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images
> 
> BURNS, Ore. — A building at the Harney County Fairgrounds in rural Oregon was packed to the seams Wednesday night, as local residents discussed an ongoing occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> 
> Many of the speakers at the meeting said they didn’t agree with the tactics of the armed men who took over the refuge Saturday, led by Ammon Bundy, the son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy. But many of those same residents said they did agree with the message.
> 
> RELATED LINKS
> 
> The latest news and updates about the armed occupation in Oregon
> Ryan Bundy walks back remarks about ending occupation
> What’s next for the armed militiamen in Oregon?
> 
> 
> Ranchers and other longtime residents said theyfelt their concerns, including land use issues and employment after the decline of the timber industry in Oregon, haven’t been talked about on a national scale until the armed men took over the federal building.
> 
> Still, a majority of speakers said they would like the refuge occupiers to leave. Early in the meeting, Harney County Sheriff David Ward asked for a straw poll of who would like the militants to peacefully return to their homes. Nearly every hand in the room shot up.
> 
> *When you have this many people from a county over 10,000 square miles in size, with only 7000 people, attending a meeting, they represent the county.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the lying asshole, scumbag?
> 
> From the article;
> 
> {
> 
> Many of the speakers at the meeting said they didn’t agree with the tactics of the armed men who took over the refuge Saturday, led by Ammon Bundy, the son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy. But many of those same residents said they did agree with the message.}
> 
> 
> Look, if you weren't stupid, you wouldn't be a leftist.
Click to expand...

Even the people who agreed with the cause wanted the militia to leave. Some of them insisted they could handle their own problems their own way and did not want outsiders injecting themselves into local business.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
Click to expand...

Where, besides in your imagination, am I retarded?   Seems to me you have a vivid imagination, especially when it comes to trying to make up stuff about posters you disagree with.   Have you ever thought of debating issues rather than pulling things out of your own imagination to put on other posters?


----------



## peach174

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
Click to expand...



Forget it.
You will not change their minds.
They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> You did not say this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Comrade, is voting against Lord Obama in the past an act of "sedition?"
> 
> Will your god order a drone strike?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did indeed ask it in response to his claim that Bundy et al were guilty of sedition.
> 
> So what is "imaginary about it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed be called "Comrade" except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aw, poor little leftist fucktards, all you demand is a command economy under an authoritarian state; it's so unfair to identify you as Communists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed refer to President Obama as "Lord Obama" except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, it isn't like you scumbags worship Obama as a god...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would voting against President Obama in the past be called an act of sedition except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I posed a question, fucktard.
> 
> You Communists are not exactly tolerant of competing ideas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would the person you addressed think of President Obama as their god except in your imagination?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ROFL
> 
> I can't imagine, shitferbrains.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know where in that person's posting history they ever said such things as "Lord Obama" or "Obama is God" or "Comrade" or "voting against Obama is an act of sedition".
> 
> Links to such comments please.  I hope that was specific enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't have an enquiring mind, you actually think that you're clever; which is fucking hilarious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^^^^^^^
> Just in case anyone failed to notice that dog cum is mentally retarded and can't follow the conversation....
Click to expand...

Just in case anyone failed to notice.....when I asked you for evidence of the POSTER you were talking to thinking of President Obama as a god, you came up with some photoshop stuff off the internet.  Hardly the same thing, is it?

  And you call ME retarded.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> There you go again.  Where, except in your imagination, did you ever come up with measurement on the intellect of a rotting corpse?



I read you're posts.

Do you even grasp how fucking stupid you really are? You don't, do you?


----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
Click to expand...

Where IS the tyranny in this case?    I fail to see it.  Maybe if you point it out clearly instead of just ranting about tyranny and personally attacking posters who are asking for evidence, we might get somewhere.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> There you go again.  Where, except in your imagination, did you ever come up with measurement on the intellect of a rotting corpse?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read you're posts.
> 
> Do you even grasp how fucking stupid you really are? You don't, do you?
Click to expand...

Again, you don't seem to be able to be on any topic except weaving some imaginary position that posters have that you can......."refute"  or mock in some way.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Just in case anyone failed to notice.....when I asked you for evidence of the POSTER you were talking to thinking of President Obama as a god, you came up with some photoshop stuff off the internet.  Hardly the same thing, is it?
> 
> And you call ME retarded.



Pssst, stupid fuck?

Those aren't photo shopped. 

You really are stupid, you DO know that, right?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> There you go again.  Where, except in your imagination, did you ever come up with measurement on the intellect of a rotting corpse?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read *you're* posts.
> 
> Do you even grasp how fucking stupid you really are? You don't, do you?
Click to expand...



BTW, do you really want to spend that post talking about someone else being "fucking stupid"?   *chuckle


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> Even the people who agreed with the cause wanted the militia to leave. Some of them insisted they could handle their own problems their own way and did not want outsiders injecting themselves into local business.



I've said a dozen times that I think Bundy is wrong in his actions.

However the locals appear to be split, despite the lies of your fellow progressives. I find it amusing that Old Rocks posts an article that contradicts his own thesis.


----------



## Camp

peach174 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
Click to expand...

Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just in case anyone failed to notice.....when I asked you for evidence of the POSTER you were talking to thinking of President Obama as a god, you came up with some photoshop stuff off the internet.  Hardly the same thing, is it?
> 
> And you call ME retarded.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pssst, stupid fuck?
> 
> Those aren't photo shopped.
> 
> You really are stupid, you DO know that, right?
Click to expand...

They most certainly ARE photoshopped.....oh, no...wait.  You really think that someone took a picture of Obama wearing robes with a halo around him?   You really think that someone took a picture of that woman and she had words floating in the air next to her?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored doesn't think the above picture was photoshopped.   Pretty much says it all, eh?


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Again, you don't seem to be able to be on any topic except weaving some imaginary position that posters have that you can......."refute"  or mock in some way.



Here's the thing, you lack the intellect to offer a reasoned post. You're dumb as a fucking doorknob and post "gotcha" shit that may have been clever in second grade. Where you fail is in you inability to grasp that most people have moved past that.

You're not clever, you're not poignant, you're not witty, nor even droll. You are a dull and tedious turd unworthy of anything save derision by your betters.

Does that clear it up for you?


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even the people who agreed with the cause wanted the militia to leave. Some of them insisted they could handle their own problems their own way and did not want outsiders injecting themselves into local business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've said a dozen times that I think Bundy is wrong in his actions.
> 
> However the locals appear to be split, despite the lies of your fellow progressives. I find it amusing that Old Rocks posts an article that contradicts his own thesis.
Click to expand...

The locals may be split on their feelings about BLM management of grazing lands and acquiring ranches in the area, but I do not think they are split about wanting the Bundy's and  their so-called militia to leave the area.

reuters.com/article/us-oregon-militia-idUSKBN0UL2IW20160108


----------



## peach174

bodecea said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where IS the tyranny in this case?    I fail to see it.  Maybe if you point it out clearly instead of just ranting about tyranny and personally attacking posters who are asking for evidence, we might get somewhere.
Click to expand...



I rest my case.
Like I said they could not see the tyranny of the King either.

Who have I attacked?


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
Click to expand...

Look up Posse Comitatus....The Bundys are part of that crowd....that's why Clive started in on "negros"....They are a lovely group that doesn't recognize any government above County Sheriff.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> They most certainly ARE photoshopped.



Well yes, of course.


{
Artist Shepard Fairey, whose iconic HOPE campaign poster of Barack Obama was a global sensation, is back with a new image that both questions and deifies the President.

Appearing on the cover of the Aug. 20 Rolling Stone, the portrait depicts Obama with a brow knit in determination, surrounded by a halo of stars.

"Will he take bold action or compromise too easily?" asks a headline enshrining the President's head.

Fairey said it wasn't meant to be a halo. Rather, the picture he worked from showed Obama standing in front of the presidential seal, }

Wow are you fucking stupid.

This is a photoshop too, you fucking retard..


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where, besides in your imagination, am I retarded?   Seems to me you have a vivid imagination, especially when it comes to trying to make up stuff about posters you disagree with.   Have you ever thought of debating issues rather than pulling things out of your own imagination to put on other posters?
Click to expand...

do you ever follow your own advice?


----------



## peach174

Camp said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
Click to expand...



Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
It will still be managed by the Government.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> View attachment 59209
> 
> Uncensored doesn't think the above picture was photoshopped.   Pretty much says it all, eh?




Shortbus has the IQ of a turnip, if we are kind.

Artist Releases CONTROVERSIAL Painting of Barack Obama... You Have to See This! - The Political Insider

Good god but you''re stupid; seriously.


----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where IS the tyranny in this case?    I fail to see it.  Maybe if you point it out clearly instead of just ranting about tyranny and personally attacking posters who are asking for evidence, we might get somewhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I rest my case.
> Like I said they could not see the tyranny of the King either.
> 
> Who have I attacked?
Click to expand...

Generic you.....not you personally....but if this tyranny is so easy to see (btw, the founders were quite able to list the tyranny of the King....it takes up MOST of the Dec of Ind)...why is it so hard to provide evidence of?


----------



## jc456

peach174 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
Click to expand...

dude, you're talking to a libturd.  he has no idea what a state is.


----------



## bodecea

peach174 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
Click to expand...

I don't see a problem with that except does a) the state want the responsibility and b) does the state want the cost?

States always seem to do a poorer job of maintaining their highways compared to interstates.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see a problem with that except does a) the state want the responsibility and b) does the state want the cost?
> 
> States always seem to do a poorer job of maintaining their highways compared to interstates.
Click to expand...

do you even know who owns interstates?  Holy crap  dude.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, you're talking to a libturd.  he has no idea what a state is.
Click to expand...

^ This is what I was talking about....personal insults but no content.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see a problem with that except does a) the state want the responsibility and b) does the state want the cost?
> 
> States always seem to do a poorer job of maintaining their highways compared to interstates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> do you even know who owns interstates?  Holy crap  dude.
Click to expand...

Yes...the federal government does...and uses federal funds to maintain them primarily.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 59209
> 
> Uncensored doesn't think the above picture was photoshopped.   Pretty much says it all, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortbus has the IQ of a turnip, if we are kind.
> 
> Artist Releases CONTROVERSIAL Painting of Barack Obama... You Have to See This! - The Political Insider
> 
> Good god but you''re stupid; seriously.
Click to expand...




Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 59209
> 
> Uncensored doesn't think the above picture was photoshopped.   Pretty much says it all, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortbus has the IQ of a turnip, if we are kind.
> 
> Artist Releases CONTROVERSIAL Painting of Barack Obama... You Have to See This! - The Political Insider
> 
> Good god but you''re stupid; seriously.
Click to expand...

Nice link...doesn't include that "picture" you posted tho, does it?  But let us assume that in that case it might be a painting....it doesn't address the OTHER two photoshopped pictures...AND...from looking at that guy's work, are you calling him a Liberal?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, you're talking to a libturd.  he has no idea what a state is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^ This is what I was talking about....personal insults but no content.
Click to expand...

that was all that was needed for that reply.  What is it you feel I'm missing?  Please enlighten my dumb ass.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> 
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see a problem with that except does a) the state want the responsibility and b) does the state want the cost?
> 
> States always seem to do a poorer job of maintaining their highways compared to interstates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> do you even know who owns interstates?  Holy crap  dude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...the federal government does...and uses federal funds to maintain them primarily.
Click to expand...

nope, but thanks for playing.  you should use the internet and see who owns them.  Funding comes from the fed gov, but the states own the roads.  Who do you think sets the speed limits over them?  You think I use only insults, well when dealing with libturds who can't find a fact to save their asses, and would rather deflect a conversation then actually participate in one, well it's all they are worth.  Now, please go to the internet.  here are some excepts from a page--http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.cfm

Excerpt:
*Who owns it? *

"The States own and operate the Interstate highways.

The one exception is the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (I-95/495) over the Potomac River in the Washington area. The U.S. Bureau of Public Roads built the bridge under special legislation approved by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in August 1954. Although the District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia operate the bridge, it is owned by the Federal Highway Administration. When the first span of the replacement bridge, now under construction, is opened, the old bridge will be removed. The States will own the new Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge."

BTW, can you say 'ouch'?


----------



## Camp

peach174 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
Click to expand...

Why in the world would we give away an investment we have been maintaining and caring for 108 years. Some of that property were paid for with hard cold cash from the taxpayers and other federal revenue sources. How do we get reimbursed for that property? Furthermore, the Congress has it in its power to turn that land over to the state or change its use, not armed protesters.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> They most certainly ARE photoshopped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well yes, of course.
> 
> 
> {
> Artist Shepard Fairey, whose iconic HOPE campaign poster of Barack Obama was a global sensation, is back with a new image that both questions and deifies the President.
> 
> Appearing on the cover of the Aug. 20 Rolling Stone, the portrait depicts Obama with a brow knit in determination, surrounded by a halo of stars.
> 
> "Will he take bold action or compromise too easily?" asks a headline enshrining the President's head.
> 
> Fairey said it wasn't meant to be a halo. Rather, the picture he worked from showed Obama standing in front of the presidential seal, }
> 
> Wow are you fucking stupid.
> 
> This is a photoshop too, you fucking retard..
Click to expand...

Of course that is photoshopped.  Why would you think I would think it isn't?   Another fantasy position you are trying to put others in?


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why in the world would we give away an investment we have been maintaining and caring for 108 years. Some of that property were paid for with hard cold cash from the taxpayers and other federal revenue sources. How do we get reimbursed for that property? Furthermore, the Congress has it in its power to turn that land over to the state or change its use, not armed protesters.
Click to expand...

unless deaf ears in Washington are ignoring it, perhaps a fight is what is needed.  Why is it the president has to use executive orders when Congress is supposed to be utilized?  you all are just libturds, and stupid.


----------



## peach174

bodecea said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where IS the tyranny in this case?    I fail to see it.  Maybe if you point it out clearly instead of just ranting about tyranny and personally attacking posters who are asking for evidence, we might get somewhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I rest my case.
> Like I said they could not see the tyranny of the King either.
> 
> Who have I attacked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Generic you.....not you personally....but if this tyranny is so easy to see (btw, the founders were quite able to list the tyranny of the King....it takes up MOST of the Dec of Ind)...why is it so hard to provide evidence of?
Click to expand...



Well here is the list.
*He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.  Obama
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them*. *Sen Reid*
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
*He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.  Both Parties minus the swarms*
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
*He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation*:  Obama but also other Presidents as well on the right.
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
*For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:  Both Parties
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury: Our Press is doing this. *Example- Bill Cosby already was condemned but there was not enough evidence to go to trial.
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and* altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:  Both Parties*
For suspending our own Legislatures, and *declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.  Both Parties. Picking and choosing
which parts of our Constitution to ignore.*
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and *destroyed the lives of our people. Both Parties*
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
*He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us (Obama), *and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.


----------



## koshergrl

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> who threatened who?  I think your post gives the wrong perception.  You made it like the militia was threatening people when in fact it is the 74 year old mother doing it.  hmmmmmmmmmmm
Click to expand...

 
They haven't been threatening anybody. The townspeople welcomed them, they continue to welcome them, they are appreciative of the attention the Bundys have brought to the issues of the area. And they sure as shit don't want a flap handed douchebag progressive like OR in there smarting off. Omg I can see it now hahahahaha....


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why in the world would we give away an investment we have been maintaining and caring for 108 years. Some of that property were paid for with hard cold cash from the taxpayers and other federal revenue sources. How do we get reimbursed for that property? Furthermore, the Congress has it in its power to turn that land over to the state or change its use, not armed protesters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> unless deaf ears in Washington are ignoring it, perhaps a fight is what is needed.  Why is it the president has to use executive orders when Congress is supposed to be utilized?  you all are just libturds, and stupid.
Click to expand...

Why do you keep deflecting away from the topic? BTW, all Presidents have used executive orders, Republican and Democrat. EO's are a tool of the Executive branch of government that is used when Congress fails to address issues in a timely fashion. They have it in their power to override executive orders if they can muster the votes. It is a constitutionally accepted procedure that has been confirmed by SCOTUS on numerous occasions.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> 
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why in the world would we give away an investment we have been maintaining and caring for 108 years. Some of that property were paid for with hard cold cash from the taxpayers and other federal revenue sources. How do we get reimbursed for that property? Furthermore, the Congress has it in its power to turn that land over to the state or change its use, not armed protesters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> unless deaf ears in Washington are ignoring it, perhaps a fight is what is needed.  Why is it the president has to use executive orders when Congress is supposed to be utilized?  you all are just libturds, and stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you keep deflecting away from the topic? BTW, all Presidents have used executive orders, Republican and Democrat. EO's are a tool of the Executive branch of government that is used when Congress fails to address issues in a timely fashion. They have it in their power to override executive orders if they can muster the votes. It is a constitutionally accepted procedure that has been confirmed by SCOTUS on numerous occasions.
Click to expand...

what have I deflected?  who brought up interstates?  How is that relative to the OP?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see a problem with that except does a) the state want the responsibility and b) does the state want the cost?
> 
> States always seem to do a poorer job of maintaining their highways compared to interstates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> do you even know who owns interstates?  Holy crap  dude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...the federal government does...and uses federal funds to maintain them primarily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope, but thanks for playing.  you should use the internet and see who owns them.  Funding comes from the fed gov, but the states own the roads.  Who do you think sets the speed limits over them?  You think I use only insults, well when dealing with libturds who can't find a fact to save their asses, and would rather deflect a conversation then actually participate in one, well it's all they are worth.  Now, please go to the internet.  here are some excepts from a page--http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.cfm
> 
> Excerpt:
> *Who owns it? *
> 
> "The States own and operate the Interstate highways.
> 
> The one exception is the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (I-95/495) over the Potomac River in the Washington area. The U.S. Bureau of Public Roads built the bridge under special legislation approved by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in August 1954. Although the District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia operate the bridge, it is owned by the Federal Highway Administration. When the first span of the replacement bridge, now under construction, is opened, the old bridge will be removed. The States will own the new Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge."
> 
> BTW, can you say 'ouch'?
Click to expand...

If what you say is true, I stand corrected.   However let me ask this......why is it that the federal government is in charge of maintaining the infrastructure with federal funds?


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> 
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why in the world would we give away an investment we have been maintaining and caring for 108 years. Some of that property were paid for with hard cold cash from the taxpayers and other federal revenue sources. How do we get reimbursed for that property? Furthermore, the Congress has it in its power to turn that land over to the state or change its use, not armed protesters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> unless deaf ears in Washington are ignoring it, perhaps a fight is what is needed.  Why is it the president has to use executive orders when Congress is supposed to be utilized?  you all are just libturds, and stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you keep deflecting away from the topic? BTW, all Presidents have used executive orders, Republican and Democrat. EO's are a tool of the Executive branch of government that is used when Congress fails to address issues in a timely fashion. They have it in their power to override executive orders if they can muster the votes. It is a constitutionally accepted procedure that has been confirmed by SCOTUS on numerous occasions.
Click to expand...

So what is it I have deflected? here is my very first post:


jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> who threatened who?  I think your post gives the wrong perception.  You made it like the militia was threatening people when in fact it is the 74 year old mother doing it.  hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Click to expand...


----------



## koshergrl

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why in the world would we give away an investment we have been maintaining and caring for 108 years. Some of that property were paid for with hard cold cash from the taxpayers and other federal revenue sources. How do we get reimbursed for that property? Furthermore, the Congress has it in its power to turn that land over to the state or change its use, not armed protesters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> unless deaf ears in Washington are ignoring it, perhaps a fight is what is needed.  Why is it the president has to use executive orders when Congress is supposed to be utilized?  you all are just libturds, and stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you keep deflecting away from the topic? BTW, all Presidents have used executive orders, Republican and Democrat. EO's are a tool of the Executive branch of government that is used when Congress fails to address issues in a timely fashion. They have it in their power to override executive orders if they can muster the votes. It is a constitutionally accepted procedure that has been confirmed by SCOTUS on numerous occasions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is it I have deflected here is my very first post:
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who threatened who?  I think your post gives the wrong perception.  You made it like the militia was threatening people when in fact it is the 74 year old mother doing it.  hmmmmmmmmmmm
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 
OR lies in order to push his agenda. He thinks people don't notice.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see a problem with that except does a) the state want the responsibility and b) does the state want the cost?
> 
> States always seem to do a poorer job of maintaining their highways compared to interstates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> do you even know who owns interstates?  Holy crap  dude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...the federal government does...and uses federal funds to maintain them primarily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope, but thanks for playing.  you should use the internet and see who owns them.  Funding comes from the fed gov, but the states own the roads.  Who do you think sets the speed limits over them?  You think I use only insults, well when dealing with libturds who can't find a fact to save their asses, and would rather deflect a conversation then actually participate in one, well it's all they are worth.  Now, please go to the internet.  here are some excepts from a page--http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.cfm
> 
> Excerpt:
> *Who owns it? *
> 
> "The States own and operate the Interstate highways.
> 
> The one exception is the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (I-95/495) over the Potomac River in the Washington area. The U.S. Bureau of Public Roads built the bridge under special legislation approved by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in August 1954. Although the District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia operate the bridge, it is owned by the Federal Highway Administration. When the first span of the replacement bridge, now under construction, is opened, the old bridge will be removed. The States will own the new Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge."
> 
> BTW, can you say 'ouch'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If what you say is true, I stand corrected.   However let me ask this......why is it that the federal government is in charge of maintaining the infrastructure with federal funds?
Click to expand...

Good question.  Why do state schools get federal money?


----------



## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> Look up Posse Comitatus....The Bundys are part of that crowd....that's why Clive started in on "negros"....They are a lovely group that doesn't recognize any government above County Sheriff.


^ that

They're deadbeat thugs.


----------



## jc456

Dot Com said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look up Posse Comitatus....The Bundys are part of that crowd....that's why Clive started in on "negros"....They are a lovely group that doesn't recognize any government above County Sheriff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^ that
> 
> They're deadbeat thugs.
Click to expand...

so post up complaints from the people who live there! Can you do that? Or do the locals accept them?  hmmmmmmmm?


----------



## koshergrl

jc456 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look up Posse Comitatus....The Bundys are part of that crowd....that's why Clive started in on "negros"....They are a lovely group that doesn't recognize any government above County Sheriff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^ that
> 
> They're deadbeat thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so post up complaints from the people who live there! Can you do that? Or do the locals accept them?  hmmmmmmmm?
Click to expand...

 
The locals do accept them. The enemedia managed to drag the tribe out, dust them off, and got them to blab some nonsense about how it's a *desecration to our ancestral lands* which is a bunch of hooey - they got there in the 1700s and 1800s when they ran from the BLM further east, the dumbfucks. But that's the strongest language anybody outside of the sheriff has used.

The rest of the folks are cagey..they say things like "well we don't condone any sort of illegal activity, but we're really glad that our situation is getting some press, FINALLY." That's what they all say. And they are running them supplies, visiting with them at the refuge. An 11 year old kid interviewed Bundy for the school paper yesterday or the day before.

They are also pissed that the schools were closed because they were led to believe that the Bundy group had made some sort of threat of violence, and they were pissed when they found out that just wasn't true.


----------



## Dot Com

so how many of the Y'all Qaeda are holed-up in that hotel watching HBO now? 



mamooth said:


> Y'all-Qaeda is having some problems.
> 
> Tearful militant discovers friend drank away donation money: ‘It’s like finding out there is no such thing as Santa’
> ---
> 
> Oh, you know what awaits a Y'all-Qaeda member in paradise after he's martyred?
> 
> 72 cousins.
> 
> Ba-dum-dum.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> 
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, you're talking to a libturd.  he has no idea what a state is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^ This is what I was talking about....personal insults but no content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *that was all that was needed for that reply*.  What is it you feel I'm missing?  Please enlighten my dumb ass.
Click to expand...

All that's needed is an insult?   Ok.


----------



## koshergrl

Dot Com said:


> so how many of the Y'all Qaeda are holed-up in that hotel watching HBO now?
> 
> 
> 
> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Y'all-Qaeda is having some problems.
> 
> Tearful militant discovers friend drank away donation money: ‘It’s like finding out there is no such thing as Santa’
> ---
> 
> Oh, you know what awaits a Y'all-Qaeda member in paradise after he's martyred?
> 
> 72 cousins.
> 
> Ba-dum-dum.
Click to expand...

 You guys need to decide if they're scary terrorists who stormed the facility and are threatening people, who are crying for their violent eviction.......or they're harmless gadabouts who are bringing $$$ to the local business owners and hanging out in the local bar.

Which is it?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why in the world would we give away an investment we have been maintaining and caring for 108 years. Some of that property were paid for with hard cold cash from the taxpayers and other federal revenue sources. How do we get reimbursed for that property? Furthermore, the Congress has it in its power to turn that land over to the state or change its use, not armed protesters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> unless deaf ears in Washington are ignoring it, perhaps a fight is what is needed.  Why is it the president has to use executive orders when Congress is supposed to be utilized?  you all are just libturds, and stupid.
Click to expand...

And it looks like the deadbeat squatters aren't going to get the fight they wanted.   Now what?   More snacks?


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> so how many of the Y'all Qaeda are holed-up in that hotel watching HBO now?
> 
> 
> 
> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Y'all-Qaeda is having some problems.
> 
> Tearful militant discovers friend drank away donation money: ‘It’s like finding out there is no such thing as Santa’
> ---
> 
> Oh, you know what awaits a Y'all-Qaeda member in paradise after he's martyred?
> 
> 72 cousins.
> 
> Ba-dum-dum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You guys need to decide if they're scary terrorists who stormed the facility and are threatening people, who are crying for their violent eviction.......or they're harmless gadabouts who are bringing $$$ to the local business owners and hanging out in the local bar.
> 
> Which is it?
Click to expand...

More snacks mean more $$$$.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look up Posse Comitatus....The Bundys are part of that crowd....that's why Clive started in on "negros"....They are a lovely group that doesn't recognize any government above County Sheriff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^ that
> 
> They're deadbeat thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so post up complaints from the people who live there! Can you do that? Or do the locals accept them?  hmmmmmmmm?
Click to expand...

This thread is full of links to the town hall meeting where the locals showed by a raise of hands that they wanted those out of staters to leave. There are also links to individuals speaking at that town hall meeting expressing the desire for the outsiders to go home.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see a problem with that except does a) the state want the responsibility and b) does the state want the cost?
> 
> States always seem to do a poorer job of maintaining their highways compared to interstates.
> 
> 
> 
> do you even know who owns interstates?  Holy crap  dude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes...the federal government does...and uses federal funds to maintain them primarily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope, but thanks for playing.  you should use the internet and see who owns them.  Funding comes from the fed gov, but the states own the roads.  Who do you think sets the speed limits over them?  You think I use only insults, well when dealing with libturds who can't find a fact to save their asses, and would rather deflect a conversation then actually participate in one, well it's all they are worth.  Now, please go to the internet.  here are some excepts from a page--http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.cfm
> 
> Excerpt:
> *Who owns it? *
> 
> "The States own and operate the Interstate highways.
> 
> The one exception is the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (I-95/495) over the Potomac River in the Washington area. The U.S. Bureau of Public Roads built the bridge under special legislation approved by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in August 1954. Although the District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia operate the bridge, it is owned by the Federal Highway Administration. When the first span of the replacement bridge, now under construction, is opened, the old bridge will be removed. The States will own the new Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge."
> 
> BTW, can you say 'ouch'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If what you say is true, I stand corrected.   However let me ask this......why is it that the federal government is in charge of maintaining the infrastructure with federal funds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question.  Why do state schools get federal money?
Click to expand...

They don't....unless they use federal programs like Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch.


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> The Hammond's played with fire and got burned. Setting fires when you cannot control them is real serious business in that area. They have had some major fires in the past decade, some that destroyed up to 1/3 of some of the ranchers cattle. That represents many years of lost income for a group of people that work extremely hard for the little income they make.


fire fighters do control burns all the time every year everywhere in the country.  What makes you think they couldn't control them when they did control them?


----------



## jc456

Dot Com said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought you were a dog groomer? What exactly makes you an expert on this???
> 
> As to the OP, the occupiers need to be made an example of
Click to expand...

I think they are the ones making the example.  hmmmmm?


----------



## jc456

SwimExpert said:


> They can be called nothing short.
> 
> _The occupation is being led by hard-core militia who adopted the Hammond cause as their own._
> 
> _Ammon Bundy met with Dwight Hammond and his wife in November, seeking a way to keep the elderly rancher from having to surrender for prison. The Hammonds professed through their attorneys that they had no interest in ignoring the order to report for prison._
> 
> 
> _Ammon Bundy said the goal is to turn over federal land to local ranchers, loggers and miners. He said he met with 10 or so residents in Burns on Friday to try to recruit them, but they declined._
> 
> Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters


what is it you're actually trying to say here?

from your link:
"The occupation came shortly after an estimated 300 marchers — militia and local citizens both — paraded through Burns to protest the prosecution of two Harney County ranchers, Dwight Hammond Jr. and Steven Hammond, who are to report to prison on Monday.

Among the occupiers is Ammon Bundy, son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, and two of his brothers. Militia members at the refuge claimed they had as many as 100 supporters with them. The refuge, federal property managed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, was closed and unoccupied for the holiday weekend."


----------



## koshergrl

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammond's played with fire and got burned. Setting fires when you cannot control them is real serious business in that area. They have had some major fires in the past decade, some that destroyed up to 1/3 of some of the ranchers cattle. That represents many years of lost income for a group of people that work extremely hard for the little income they make.
> 
> 
> 
> fire fighters do control burns all the time every year everywhere in the country.  What makes you think they couldn't control them when they did control them?
Click to expand...

 And the ranchers do, TOO. They always have. The Hammonds called the BLM, but they were also out fighting fires. This is standard operating procedure out there. I've gone out with rancher friends in their own personal water trucks to fight fires, I've seen them backburning. It's common and the BLM is currently employing a cooperative approach with landowners (or they're supposed to be) that gives them both some leeway when it comes to managing the land in a way that's beneficial for both.

The BLM violates the terms of the legislation they contributed to concerning this matter, and that is the crux of the problem. They're out of control and they're ruining not only the land, but the lives of the people who live there.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you even know who owns interstates?  Holy crap  dude.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...the federal government does...and uses federal funds to maintain them primarily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope, but thanks for playing.  you should use the internet and see who owns them.  Funding comes from the fed gov, but the states own the roads.  Who do you think sets the speed limits over them?  You think I use only insults, well when dealing with libturds who can't find a fact to save their asses, and would rather deflect a conversation then actually participate in one, well it's all they are worth.  Now, please go to the internet.  here are some excepts from a page--http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.cfm
> 
> Excerpt:
> *Who owns it? *
> 
> "The States own and operate the Interstate highways.
> 
> The one exception is the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (I-95/495) over the Potomac River in the Washington area. The U.S. Bureau of Public Roads built the bridge under special legislation approved by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in August 1954. Although the District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia operate the bridge, it is owned by the Federal Highway Administration. When the first span of the replacement bridge, now under construction, is opened, the old bridge will be removed. The States will own the new Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge."
> 
> BTW, can you say 'ouch'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If what you say is true, I stand corrected.   However let me ask this......why is it that the federal government is in charge of maintaining the infrastructure with federal funds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question.  Why do state schools get federal money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't....unless they use federal programs like Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch.
Click to expand...

sure state schools get federal money the unions petition for kids to be in school so the numbers are enough to keep federal money coming in.


----------



## koshergrl

charwin95 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass. This is not about Waco, this is about a bunch of outsiders that are not wanted and are causing trouble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Infidels who fail to bow to the living god you worship.
> 
> So can you get Reno out their to kill them and their families?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they think they can come in with their arsenal, and bully the whole community, and the US Government, as well. They need to spend major time in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought you wanted to slaughter them all? These are white people. Isn't it the policy of the democratic - socialist party that whites should be killed on sight?  Remember, white lives don't matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And he's lying. The locals don't mind them there. The locals are thrilled that FINALLY their situation is getting some attention.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That is incorrect. Do you have a LINK to support your claim? Even the Hanmond family reject these assholes.
> 
> Oregon ranchers reject Cliven Bundy family occupation
Click to expand...

 
Your link doesn't quote a single rancher "rejecting" the occupation.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> 
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Look up Posse Comitatus....The Bundys are part of that crowd....that's why Clive started in on "negros"....They are a lovely group that doesn't recognize any government above County Sheriff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^ that
> 
> They're deadbeat thugs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so post up complaints from the people who live there! Can you do that? Or do the locals accept them?  hmmmmmmmm?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is full of links to the town hall meeting where the locals showed by a raise of hands that they wanted those out of staters to leave. There are also links to individuals speaking at that town hall meeting expressing the desire for the outsiders to go home.
Click to expand...

well why don't you post up some material that actually says that the locals all want them gone.  I haven't read one yet.  In fact, they have been included and marched with the militia.  The OP was in error on who threatened who as well.  I point that out already earlier.  use search and go to my fist post in this thread..

I enjoy proving people who live by their fear the errors of their ways.  You nor any other libturd in here has found one thing the militia has done wrong.  They even state they are following the constitution, and they must be because no one is forcing them out.


----------



## koshergrl

"He understands the anger of militants such as Ammon Bundy, whose father, Cliven Bundy, led a 2014 standoff with federal officials in Nevada over a grazing fee dispute. The younger Bundy and other activists have taken over federal buildings on the Malheur preserve to argue against what they view as illegal ownership of that property, as well as grazing lands, by the federal government
#“Ranching is a way of life that’s being taken away from these families; something they’ve been doing for generations and the federal government is endangering,” said Filbin. “They feel this country’s going down the wrong path and there’s nothing that can be done about it because people don’t understand the issues – they don’t even know where their food comes from anymore — and Congress won’t deal with this administration and these agencies.”

Ranchers react to E. Oregon land dispute


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dot Com said:


> ^ that
> 
> They're deadbeat thugs.



"That" what, dog cum? What point do you think your fellow retard is making? Do you even grasp where you are?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Hammond's played with fire and got burned. Setting fires when you cannot control them is real serious business in that area. They have had some major fires in the past decade, some that destroyed up to 1/3 of some of the ranchers cattle. That represents many years of lost income for a group of people that work extremely hard for the little income they make.
> 
> 
> 
> fire fighters do control burns all the time every year everywhere in the country.  What makes you think they couldn't control them when they did control them?
Click to expand...

Were the Hammonds firefighters?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^ that
> 
> They're deadbeat thugs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "That" what, dog cum? What point do you think your fellow retard is making? Do you even grasp where you are?
Click to expand...

^ No content, just insults.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> And it looks like the deadbeat squatters aren't going to get the fight they wanted.   Now what?   More snacks?



So is Queer Leader. er I mean "Dear Leader" sending in a drone to wipe them all out?


----------



## koshergrl

Sack Heads Radio 1.6.15


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> [
> 
> ^ No content, just insults.



^ Intellect of a rotting corpse so couldn't grasp the content.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...the federal government does...and uses federal funds to maintain them primarily.
> 
> 
> 
> nope, but thanks for playing.  you should use the internet and see who owns them.  Funding comes from the fed gov, but the states own the roads.  Who do you think sets the speed limits over them?  You think I use only insults, well when dealing with libturds who can't find a fact to save their asses, and would rather deflect a conversation then actually participate in one, well it's all they are worth.  Now, please go to the internet.  here are some excepts from a page--http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.cfm
> 
> Excerpt:
> *Who owns it? *
> 
> "The States own and operate the Interstate highways.
> 
> The one exception is the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (I-95/495) over the Potomac River in the Washington area. The U.S. Bureau of Public Roads built the bridge under special legislation approved by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in August 1954. Although the District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia operate the bridge, it is owned by the Federal Highway Administration. When the first span of the replacement bridge, now under construction, is opened, the old bridge will be removed. The States will own the new Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge."
> 
> BTW, can you say 'ouch'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If what you say is true, I stand corrected.   However let me ask this......why is it that the federal government is in charge of maintaining the infrastructure with federal funds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question.  Why do state schools get federal money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't....unless they use federal programs like Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure state schools get federal money the unions petition for kids to be in school so the numbers are enough to keep federal money coming in.
Click to expand...

The state schools get federal money for the programs I mentioned...and yes there are strings attached.  Some schools have given up on that money to not have to do what the feds say.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> ^ No content, just insults.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ Intellect of a rotting corpse so couldn't grasp the content.
Click to expand...

^ No content....continued insults.

Makes one wonder if he is even capable of reality.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> nope, but thanks for playing.  you should use the internet and see who owns them.  Funding comes from the fed gov, but the states own the roads.  Who do you think sets the speed limits over them?  You think I use only insults, well when dealing with libturds who can't find a fact to save their asses, and would rather deflect a conversation then actually participate in one, well it's all they are worth.  Now, please go to the internet.  here are some excepts from a page--http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.cfm
> 
> Excerpt:
> *Who owns it? *
> 
> "The States own and operate the Interstate highways.
> 
> The one exception is the Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge (I-95/495) over the Potomac River in the Washington area. The U.S. Bureau of Public Roads built the bridge under special legislation approved by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in August 1954. Although the District of Columbia, Maryland, and Virginia operate the bridge, it is owned by the Federal Highway Administration. When the first span of the replacement bridge, now under construction, is opened, the old bridge will be removed. The States will own the new Woodrow Wilson Memorial Bridge."
> 
> BTW, can you say 'ouch'?
> 
> 
> 
> If what you say is true, I stand corrected.   However let me ask this......why is it that the federal government is in charge of maintaining the infrastructure with federal funds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good question.  Why do state schools get federal money?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't....unless they use federal programs like Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure state schools get federal money the unions petition for kids to be in school so the numbers are enough to keep federal money coming in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The state schools get federal money for the programs I mentioned...and yes there are strings attached.  Some schools have given up on that money to not have to do what the feds say.
Click to expand...

what state schools?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> ^ No content, just insults.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ Intellect of a rotting corpse so couldn't grasp the content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^ No content....continued insults.
Click to expand...

what is it you've provided?


----------



## koshergrl

"There is a fear of speaking out..." 51.35  Sack Heads Radio 1.6.15


----------



## koshergrl

"Scores of ranchers throughout Western states are dealing with livestock, grazing, hay and fence losses from wildfires. A major complaint is that state and federal agencies need to reduce fuel loads and fight fires better."

"Beside land mismanagement, ranchers involved in Western fires in recent years allege state and federal miscues in fighting fires while praising efforts of local firefighters.
"In the Long Draw and Holloway fires in Oregon three years ago, ranchers accused the BLM of letting land burn to expand designated wilderness areas. The BLM denied it.
"In Washington’s 256,108-acre Carlton fire last year, many ranchers and others believe the DNR let the fire go to gain more federal dollars. More than 200 landowners are preparing to file a lawsuit seeking more than $75 million in damages for what their attorney says was “a series of intentional and negligent actions.”

Ranchers criticize forest management, firefighting tactics


----------



## koshergrl

"“We had a tough decision. Move our cows and save them or go build a Cat line,” Kuchenbuch said. “I was promised by a head official he would have a Cat up there. It never happened. We saved our cows. If I’d gone and had Gebbers with me there’s a high percentage chance I might have save the rest of my summer range....”
“We recognize they had limited resources and a massive fire,” Haeberle said.
"But a Forest Service consultant turned around Gebbers’ Cats and “they backburned the rest of our summer range and our cabin to try to save the town,” Haeberle said.
"State and federal firefighters went back to camp for the night, but local firefighters and volunteers held lines all night because “it was our land and our homes,” Nicole Kuchenbuch said."

“All these fires, the last 20 years they let them burn. They refuse to come in and stomp out a little lightning strike. They use all the resources to save a little shack and lose billions of dollars of livestock and timber,” he said.
"He agreed with the Kuchenbuchs that the underlying problem is build up of forest and sod fuel loads from no logging, thinning and grazing.
“A big sign that went up this spring in Colville says, ‘Public lands. Log it, graze it or watch it burn,’” he said."

Ranchers criticize forest management, firefighting tactics


----------



## Seawytch

These idiots should get their wish. Turn the property over to the state. This will end the Federal welfare program these ranchers have been on, leasing the property at a fraction of the cost. 

What would the state do with all that land, one wonders...


----------



## Skylar

So let me see if I have this right. The Town Council has asked them to leave. The Governor of Oregon has asked them to leave. The Sheriff has asked them to leave.

So....who the fuck wants the idiots there?


----------



## jc456

peach174 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
Click to expand...

ah now why did you let them in on that.  ah man, libturds have never heard about state shit.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> So let me see if I have this right. The Town Council has asked them to leave. The Governor of Oregon has asked them to leave. The Sheriff has asked them to leave.
> 
> So....who the fuck wants the idiots there?


the town council did?   hmmm post that up here.

BTW, they are no longer in the town.  But don't let that fact get in your way.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ah now why did you let them in on that.  ah man, libturds have never heard about state shit.
Click to expand...

Oh?   And you base that on.................


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ah now why did you let them in on that.  ah man, libturds have never heard about state shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh?   And you base that on.................
Click to expand...

experience.


----------



## bodecea

Skylar said:


> So let me see if I have this right. The Town Council has asked them to leave. The Governor of Oregon has asked them to leave. The Sheriff has asked them to leave.
> 
> So....who the fuck wants the idiots there?


Those selling junk food.

I've said again and again.  Never stand between a RWr and their junk food.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> So let me see if I have this right. The Town Council has asked them to leave. The Governor of Oregon has asked them to leave. The Sheriff has asked them to leave.
> 
> So....who the fuck wants the idiots there?
> 
> 
> 
> Those selling junk food.
> 
> I've said again and again.  Never stand between a RWr and their junk food.
Click to expand...

then why are you in the forum?  you are the best junk around here.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> 
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ah now why did you let them in on that.  ah man, libturds have never heard about state shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh?   And you base that on.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> experience.
Click to expand...

Is it measurable?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ah now why did you let them in on that.  ah man, libturds have never heard about state shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh?   And you base that on.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it measurable?
Click to expand...

All one has to do is read the posts in this thread, didn't know who owned the interstates, when the word has state in it.  Didn't know that state schools are federally funded.  I don't know, I measure the rate of libturd stupid in here daily.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ah now why did you let them in on that.  ah man, libturds have never heard about state shit.
Click to expand...

The state is not the entity that has obtained the land by military maneuver and operation in the 19th Century, by treaty with the native Americans, by federal legislation and cash purchases in 1935 and 1942 and the state did not pay the cost of maintenance, upkeep, protection, and improvements. So, the question remains, why should our investments be given away, even to the state of Oregon without compensation. We have been investing in that land for a specific purpose for over 100 years. Why should we change its purpose and use now? And if we did, should that be done by Congress?


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ah now why did you let them in on that.  ah man, libturds have never heard about state shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The state is not the entity that has obtained the land by military maneuver and operation in the 19th Century, by treaty with the native Americans, by federal legislation and cash purchases in 1935 and 1942 and the state did not pay the cost of maintenance, upkeep, protection, and improvements. So, the question remains, why should our investments be given away, even to the state of Oregon without compensation. We have been investing in that land for a specific purpose for over 100 years. Why should we change its purpose and use now? And if we did, should that be done by Congress?
Click to expand...

what investments/ revenues do the feds get with the current arrangement?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> So let me see if I have this right. The Town Council has asked them to leave. The Governor of Oregon has asked them to leave. The Sheriff has asked them to leave.
> 
> So....who the fuck wants the idiots there?
> 
> 
> 
> Those selling junk food.
> 
> I've said again and again.  Never stand between a RWr and their junk food.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> then why are you in the forum?  you are the best junk around here.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that didn't make sense.


----------



## Stephanie

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference is that one group came without weapons of any sort and were willing to be arrested and face consequences of legal action and the other group came to protest armed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns threatening violence if law enforcement tried to arrest them. Do you not comprehend the difference?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Local ranchers who have visited the refuge and the occupants say it's never looked so clean and well cared for.
Click to expand...


that's because most ranchers are probably conservatives and they ACTUALLY care about the land because they LIVE off of it. for raising food for others and food for their families. we've seen rally's of the left and TONS of garbage that had to be cleaned up by OTHERS.

just one place here:
snip:
*Occupy L.A.: 30 tons of debris left behind at City Hall tent city*
November 30, 2011 |  4:32 pm


Sanitation officials said Wednesday that they expect to haul away 30 tons of debris from the Occupy L.A. encampment –- everything from clothing to heaps of garbage to oddball curiosities left behind by the protesters who lived at the City Hall tent city for two months.

Andrea Alarcon, president of the city Public Works board, said workers already have removed 25 tons of belongings from the City Hall park, all of it heading straight to a landfill.

Sanitation crews also have vacuumed up about 3,000 gallons of water that had washed into a catch basin in recent days and are testing it for hazardous materials, she said.

*Occupy L.A.:* *Photos* | *Videos* | *360° photos*

all of the nasty stuff here:
Occupy L.A.: 30 tons of debris left behind at City Hall tent city


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> 
> 
> ah now why did you let them in on that.  ah man, libturds have never heard about state shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh?   And you base that on.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it measurable?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All one has to do is read the posts in this thread, didn't know who owned the interstates, when the word has state in it.  Didn't know that state schools are federally funded.  I don't know, I measure the rate of libturd stupid in here daily.
Click to expand...

I have been reading the posts and I did acknowledge you were right about the interstates.    Wait....you think the states own them simply because of the word "state"?   Do you know what the word "inter" means?

And state schools are ONLY federally funded if they use Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch funds.   

Now tell us about State Lands vs Federal Lands.


----------



## bodecea

Stephanie said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And one tore up government property and the other has not.
> Do you comprehend the difference?
> 
> 
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Local ranchers who have visited the refuge and the occupants say it's never looked so clean and well cared for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that's because most ranchers are probably conservatives and they ACTUALLY care about the land because they LIVE off of it. for raising food for others and food for their families. we've seen rally's of the left and TONS of garbage that had to be cleaned up by OTHERS.
> 
> just one place here:
> snip:
> *Occupy L.A.: 30 tons of debris left behind at City Hall tent city*
> November 30, 2011 |  4:32 pm
> 
> 
> Sanitation officials said Wednesday that they expect to haul away 30 tons of debris from the Occupy L.A. encampment –- everything from clothing to heaps of garbage to oddball curiosities left behind by the protesters who lived at the City Hall tent city for two months.
> 
> Andrea Alarcon, president of the city Public Works board, said workers already have removed 25 tons of belongings from the City Hall park, all of it heading straight to a landfill.
> 
> Sanitation crews also have vacuumed up about 3,000 gallons of water that had washed into a catch basin in recent days and are testing it for hazardous materials, she said.
> 
> *Occupy L.A.:* *Photos* | *Videos* | *360° photos*
> 
> all of the nasty stuff here:
> Occupy L.A.: 30 tons of debris left behind at City Hall tent city
Click to expand...

That ALWAYS happens?  Or rather ALWAYS when it's liberals and NEVER when it's RWrs?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do we know they haven't torn up government property?  Have you been in there to see?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there for any of the right wing protests that have destroyed property?
> That's right none.
> The left do it consistently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, but to say they have not with no evidence that way is just as wrong.  Don't you think we should wait to see if that is true or not?   Or are you basing everything on an assumption?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Local ranchers who have visited the refuge and the occupants say it's never looked so clean and well cared for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that's because most ranchers are probably conservatives and they ACTUALLY care about the land because they LIVE off of it. for raising food for others and food for their families. we've seen rally's of the left and TONS of garbage that had to be cleaned up by OTHERS.
> 
> just one place here:
> snip:
> *Occupy L.A.: 30 tons of debris left behind at City Hall tent city*
> November 30, 2011 |  4:32 pm
> 
> 
> Sanitation officials said Wednesday that they expect to haul away 30 tons of debris from the Occupy L.A. encampment –- everything from clothing to heaps of garbage to oddball curiosities left behind by the protesters who lived at the City Hall tent city for two months.
> 
> Andrea Alarcon, president of the city Public Works board, said workers already have removed 25 tons of belongings from the City Hall park, all of it heading straight to a landfill.
> 
> Sanitation crews also have vacuumed up about 3,000 gallons of water that had washed into a catch basin in recent days and are testing it for hazardous materials, she said.
> 
> *Occupy L.A.:* *Photos* | *Videos* | *360° photos*
> 
> all of the nasty stuff here:
> Occupy L.A.: 30 tons of debris left behind at City Hall tent city
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That ALWAYS happens?  Or rather ALWAYS when it's liberals and NEVER when it's RWrs?
Click to expand...

rwrs hold protests?  Oh yeah, when they do they send the FBI to tell them to get out.  Funny stuff, In Chicago it's ok to disrupt christmas shopping and no fbi get's involved to insure the safety of the shoppers.  And yet when rwrs get involved in a protest the fbi shows up.


----------



## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> Those selling junk food.
> 
> I've said again and again.  Never stand between a RWr and their junk food.


maybe the former Gov/Queen Roque Bee can bring them drinks


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ah now why did you let them in on that.  ah man, libturds have never heard about state shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   And you base that on.................
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it measurable?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All one has to do is read the posts in this thread, didn't know who owned the interstates, when the word has state in it.  Didn't know that state schools are federally funded.  I don't know, I measure the rate of libturd stupid in here daily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have been reading the posts and I did acknowledge you were right about the interstates.    Wait....you think the states own them simply because of the word "state"?   Do you know what the word "inter" means?
> 
> And state schools are ONLY federally funded if they use Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch funds.
> 
> Now tell us about State Lands vs Federal Lands.
Click to expand...

what is it you'd like to know that you can't look up on the internet?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh?   And you base that on.................
> 
> 
> 
> experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it measurable?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All one has to do is read the posts in this thread, didn't know who owned the interstates, when the word has state in it.  Didn't know that state schools are federally funded.  I don't know, I measure the rate of libturd stupid in here daily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have been reading the posts and I did acknowledge you were right about the interstates.    Wait....you think the states own them simply because of the word "state"?   Do you know what the word "inter" means?
> 
> And state schools are ONLY federally funded if they use Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch funds.
> 
> Now tell us about State Lands vs Federal Lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what is it you'd like to know that you can't look up on the internet?
Click to expand...

It's more fun to hear it from you.  So...tell us the pros and cons of state land vs federal land.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it measurable?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All one has to do is read the posts in this thread, didn't know who owned the interstates, when the word has state in it.  Didn't know that state schools are federally funded.  I don't know, I measure the rate of libturd stupid in here daily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have been reading the posts and I did acknowledge you were right about the interstates.    Wait....you think the states own them simply because of the word "state"?   Do you know what the word "inter" means?
> 
> And state schools are ONLY federally funded if they use Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch funds.
> 
> Now tell us about State Lands vs Federal Lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what is it you'd like to know that you can't look up on the internet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's more fun to hear it from you.  So...tell us the pros and cons of state land vs federal land.
Click to expand...

It seems to bother you, so you have the floor let's hear about it.


----------



## Seawytch

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it measurable?
> 
> 
> 
> All one has to do is read the posts in this thread, didn't know who owned the interstates, when the word has state in it.  Didn't know that state schools are federally funded.  I don't know, I measure the rate of libturd stupid in here daily.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have been reading the posts and I did acknowledge you were right about the interstates.    Wait....you think the states own them simply because of the word "state"?   Do you know what the word "inter" means?
> 
> And state schools are ONLY federally funded if they use Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch funds.
> 
> Now tell us about State Lands vs Federal Lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what is it you'd like to know that you can't look up on the internet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's more fun to hear it from you.  So...tell us the pros and cons of state land vs federal land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems to bother you, so you have the floor let's hear about it.
Click to expand...


Seriously...what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?


----------



## teddyearp

check this:


----------



## jc456

Seawytch said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All one has to do is read the posts in this thread, didn't know who owned the interstates, when the word has state in it.  Didn't know that state schools are federally funded.  I don't know, I measure the rate of libturd stupid in here daily.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been reading the posts and I did acknowledge you were right about the interstates.    Wait....you think the states own them simply because of the word "state"?   Do you know what the word "inter" means?
> 
> And state schools are ONLY federally funded if they use Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch funds.
> 
> Now tell us about State Lands vs Federal Lands.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what is it you'd like to know that you can't look up on the internet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's more fun to hear it from you.  So...tell us the pros and cons of state land vs federal land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems to bother you, so you have the floor let's hear about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously...what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?
Click to expand...

What do the Feds lose?


----------



## Seawytch

jc456 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been reading the posts and I did acknowledge you were right about the interstates.    Wait....you think the states own them simply because of the word "state"?   Do you know what the word "inter" means?
> 
> And state schools are ONLY federally funded if they use Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch funds.
> 
> Now tell us about State Lands vs Federal Lands.
> 
> 
> 
> what is it you'd like to know that you can't look up on the internet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's more fun to hear it from you.  So...tell us the pros and cons of state land vs federal land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems to bother you, so you have the floor let's hear about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously...what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do the Feds lose?
Click to expand...


A national wildlife refuge and a bunch of land they lease dirt cheap to these ranchers.

Now try answering my question. what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?


----------



## ChrisL

Seawytch said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> what is it you'd like to know that you can't look up on the internet?
> 
> 
> 
> It's more fun to hear it from you.  So...tell us the pros and cons of state land vs federal land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems to bother you, so you have the floor let's hear about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously...what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do the Feds lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A national wildlife refuge and a bunch of land they lease dirt cheap to these ranchers.
> 
> Now try answering my question. what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?
Click to expand...


I think the point is that they have an issue with an overreaching federal government.  You don't have to be gaining anything to make a stand against what you feel is wrong.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Have those toothless hillbillies killed each other yet?  I know they sent one member to the hospital, and one got kicked out for drinking up the donation money.  lol

They should make a TV sitcom out of this.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Tilly said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tilly said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lolol...that's what you're going with?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you profoundly stupid or a troll
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you always call people asking you to back up your assertions "stupid or a troll"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When they are trolling, I expect so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So...the new definition of "trolling" is to have the nerve to ask another poster to back up their assertions with some facts or evidence?
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn.
Click to expand...


exactly


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> well the way it sits these days
> 
> if it is the governments property it certainly is not yours
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Bundys are using it for the purposes of the people. You do understand the buildings were locked up and shuttered against use, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary. The fact that the caretakers and managers of the property locked and shuttered the doors does not in any way or circumstance indicate abandonment.
> As far as using the property for the people, that is just ridiculous. They were not assigned any task by the owners or managers and they are not elected to make any decision about how the property is used. They are trespassers and burglars. plain and simple.
Click to expand...


*If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary.*

but they are owners just like you --LOL


----------



## jon_berzerk

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, going back to this first post of yours, jon......you don't reference any of Ravi's posts whatsoever....so you continue to lie.
Click to expand...


hey shit for brains 

you asked so i answered with this 



*ravi demonstrates

that libtards can not imagine life without the help of the government

--LOL
was that supposed to be profound?*

*no

simply an observation based on libtard postings*


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is, it is the property held in trust for all citizens and future citizens. The government by virtue of elected officials in Congress and the White House have been tasked with managing it. If we don't like the way it is managed we have constitutional provisions that allow us to change how it is managed. Hence, it is our property, including mine as a citizen. I have just as much say in what is done with the land and Bundy. Nothing gives Bundy or any militia member more power and authority than any other single individual citizen. Except the fact that he temporarily has an advantage because he is armed and threatens violence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Bundys are using it for the purposes of the people. You do understand the buildings were locked up and shuttered against use, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary. The fact that the caretakers and managers of the property locked and shuttered the doors does not in any way or circumstance indicate abandonment.
> As far as using the property for the people, that is just ridiculous. They were not assigned any task by the owners or managers and they are not elected to make any decision about how the property is used. They are trespassers and burglars. plain and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary.*
> 
> but they are owners just like you --LOL
Click to expand...

They are co-owners who share ownership with over 300 million other co-owners and are obligated to adhere to protocols, rules and regulations as set by the managers, selected and approved by elected officials to represent the owners.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Bundys are using it for the purposes of the people. You do understand the buildings were locked up and shuttered against use, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary. The fact that the caretakers and managers of the property locked and shuttered the doors does not in any way or circumstance indicate abandonment.
> As far as using the property for the people, that is just ridiculous. They were not assigned any task by the owners or managers and they are not elected to make any decision about how the property is used. They are trespassers and burglars. plain and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary.*
> 
> but they are owners just like you --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are co-owners who share ownership with over 300 million other co-owners and are obligated to adhere to protocols, rules and regulations as set by the managers, selected and approved by elected officials to represent the owners.
Click to expand...


--LOL

co owners have a say 

if they close the park 

you are out of luck 

you are a visitor


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, going back to this first post of yours, jon......you don't reference any of Ravi's posts whatsoever....so you continue to lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey shit for brains
> 
> you asked so i answered with this
> 
> 
> 
> *ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> was that supposed to be profound?*
> 
> *no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings*
Click to expand...

So......to make it clear....what posts by Ravi demonstrate what you claim they demonstrate.  You did not link or quote any of her posts.


----------



## jon_berzerk

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, going back to this first post of yours, jon......you don't reference any of Ravi's posts whatsoever....so you continue to lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey shit for brains
> 
> you asked so i answered with this
> 
> 
> 
> *ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> was that supposed to be profound?*
> 
> *no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So......to make it clear....what posts by Ravi demonstrate what you claim they demonstrate.  You did not link or quote any of her posts.
Click to expand...



hey dimwit 

it has already been posted


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure what ever
> 
> try using it for your own purposes some time
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Bundys are using it for the purposes of the people. You do understand the buildings were locked up and shuttered against use, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary. The fact that the caretakers and managers of the property locked and shuttered the doors does not in any way or circumstance indicate abandonment.
> As far as using the property for the people, that is just ridiculous. They were not assigned any task by the owners or managers and they are not elected to make any decision about how the property is used. They are trespassers and burglars. plain and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary.*
> 
> but they are owners just like you --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are co-owners who share ownership with over 300 million other co-owners and are obligated to adhere to protocols, rules and regulations as set by the managers, selected and approved by elected officials to represent the owners.
Click to expand...

Lol wow lefties love to wrap things up in red tape.


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's more fun to hear it from you.  So...tell us the pros and cons of state land vs federal land.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to bother you, so you have the floor let's hear about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously...what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do the Feds lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A national wildlife refuge and a bunch of land they lease dirt cheap to these ranchers.
> 
> Now try answering my question. what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think the point is that they have an issue with an overreaching federal government.  You don't have to be gaining anything to make a stand against what you feel is wrong.
Click to expand...




Overreaching in what way? Please be specific.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

So are the libs still wetting their panties over an abandoned building in the middle of nowhere?


----------



## Carla_Danger

Grampa Murked U said:


> So are the libs still wetting their panties over an abandoned building in the middle of nowhere?



It's entertaining as shit. They should do a comedy sitcom as a result.


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Citizens use their property all the time. The terrorist at Malheur are currently living in the Visitor Center and taken over that complex of buildings. Why do you suppose they have a visitor center at the wildlife refuge? Could it be to serve the citizens who come there to use the property for their own purposes?
> 
> 
> 
> The Bundys are using it for the purposes of the people. You do understand the buildings were locked up and shuttered against use, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary. The fact that the caretakers and managers of the property locked and shuttered the doors does not in any way or circumstance indicate abandonment.
> As far as using the property for the people, that is just ridiculous. They were not assigned any task by the owners or managers and they are not elected to make any decision about how the property is used. They are trespassers and burglars. plain and simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If the building were locked up and shuttered it means Bundy and his crew broke into them and should be charged with breaking and entering and burglary.*
> 
> but they are owners just like you --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are co-owners who share ownership with over 300 million other co-owners and are obligated to adhere to protocols, rules and regulations as set by the managers, selected and approved by elected officials to represent the owners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol wow lefties love to wrap things up in red tape.
Click to expand...


--LOL


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, going back to this first post of yours, jon......you don't reference any of Ravi's posts whatsoever....so you continue to lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey shit for brains
> 
> you asked so i answered with this
> 
> 
> 
> *ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> was that supposed to be profound?*
> 
> *no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So......to make it clear....what posts by Ravi demonstrate what you claim they demonstrate.  You did not link or quote any of her posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey dimwit
> 
> it has already been posted
Click to expand...

You have no link...just your statement.  So, again...what post of Ravi's made you say what you said.....link Ravi's post here >>>>>>>>


----------



## bodecea

Grampa Murked U said:


> So are the libs still wetting their panties over an abandoned building in the middle of nowhere?


You have a funny way of calling a building that is used "abandoned"...and there is more than one.

But drink on, gramps, drink on.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

bodecea said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> So are the libs still wetting their panties over an abandoned building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> 
> 
> You have a funny way of calling a building that is used "abandoned"...and there is more than one.
> 
> But drink on, gramps, drink on.
Click to expand...

I'll take that as a yes


----------



## bodecea

Grampa Murked U said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> So are the libs still wetting their panties over an abandoned building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> 
> 
> You have a funny way of calling a building that is used "abandoned"...and there is more than one.
> 
> But drink on, gramps, drink on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll take that as a yes
Click to expand...

Of course you would.


----------



## jon_berzerk

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine  life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, going back to this first post of yours, jon......you don't reference any of Ravi's posts whatsoever....so you continue to lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey shit for brains
> 
> you asked so i answered with this
> 
> 
> 
> *ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> was that supposed to be profound?*
> 
> *no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So......to make it clear....what posts by Ravi demonstrate what you claim they demonstrate.  You did not link or quote any of her posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey dimwit
> 
> it has already been posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have no link...just your statement.  So, again...what post of Ravi's made you say what you said.....link Ravi's post here >>>>>>>>
Click to expand...


hey* stupid* this thread is the link


----------



## Carla_Danger

Grampa Murked U said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> So are the libs still wetting their panties over an abandoned building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> 
> 
> You have a funny way of calling a building that is used "abandoned"...and there is more than one.
> 
> But drink on, gramps, drink on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'll take that as a yes
Click to expand...



Glug, glug, glug.


----------



## bodecea

I wonder what the propaganda purpose is of calling buildings that are NOT abandoned, just closed for the holidays, "abandoned"?

Are schools abandoned because they are closed for the holidays?


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, going back to this first post of yours, jon......you don't reference any of Ravi's posts whatsoever....so you continue to lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hey shit for brains
> 
> you asked so i answered with this
> 
> 
> 
> *ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> was that supposed to be profound?*
> 
> *no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So......to make it clear....what posts by Ravi demonstrate what you claim they demonstrate.  You did not link or quote any of her posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey dimwit
> 
> it has already been posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have no link...just your statement.  So, again...what post of Ravi's made you say what you said.....link Ravi's post here >>>>>>>>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey* stupid* this thread is the link
Click to expand...

This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!


----------



## koshergrl

Militia groups meet with leaders of Oregon occupation, pledge support | Reuters

Locals shouted down a 'land rights activist'. The press except for the cattle and rancher association publications are digging as hard as they can, and despite the lying headlines by the Oregonian, the locals continue to support the o occupation. People are coming from all over Oregon, and the west, to show support.


----------



## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey shit for brains
> 
> you asked so i answered with this
> 
> 
> 
> *ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> was that supposed to be profound?*
> 
> *no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings*
> 
> 
> 
> So......to make it clear....what posts by Ravi demonstrate what you claim they demonstrate.  You did not link or quote any of her posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey dimwit
> 
> it has already been posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have no link...just your statement.  So, again...what post of Ravi's made you say what you said.....link Ravi's post here >>>>>>>>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey* stupid* this thread is the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!
Click to expand...

that retard is too lazy or rather too overwhelmed to find the quotes. FAIL!!!


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Militia groups meet with leaders of Oregon occupation, pledge support | Reuters
> 
> Locals shouted down a 'land rights activist'. The press except for the cattle and rancher association publications are digging as hard as they can, and despite the lying headlines by the Oregonian, the locals continue to support the o occupation. People are coming from all over Oregon, and the west, to show support.


How are things going inside the occupation, Allie.   You know everything about this...tell us.  We here they are having "issues".


----------



## Carla_Danger

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey shit for brains
> 
> you asked so i answered with this
> 
> 
> 
> *ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> was that supposed to be profound?*
> 
> *no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings*
> 
> 
> 
> So......to make it clear....what posts by Ravi demonstrate what you claim they demonstrate.  You did not link or quote any of her posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey dimwit
> 
> it has already been posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have no link...just your statement.  So, again...what post of Ravi's made you say what you said.....link Ravi's post here >>>>>>>>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey* stupid* this thread is the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!
Click to expand...



I think Jon has gone berzerk.


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> Militia groups meet with leaders of Oregon occupation, pledge support | Reuters
> 
> Locals shouted down a 'land rights activist'. The press except for the cattle and rancher association publications are digging as hard as they can, and despite the lying headlines by the Oregonian, the locals continue to support the o occupation. People are coming from all over Oregon, and the west, to show support.


more FAKEvets showing up to support the terrorists?


----------



## Carla_Danger

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militia groups meet with leaders of Oregon occupation, pledge support | Reuters
> 
> Locals shouted down a 'land rights activist'. The press except for the cattle and rancher association publications are digging as hard as they can, and despite the lying headlines by the Oregonian, the locals continue to support the o occupation. People are coming from all over Oregon, and the west, to show support.
> 
> 
> 
> How are things going inside the occupation, Allie.   You know everything about this...tell us.  We here they are having "issues".
Click to expand...



I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.


----------



## Camp

Does anyone have a clue about what concept or spin these people use to justify ignoring the Constitution and stealing or vandalizing our public property?


----------



## bodecea

Dot Com said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So......to make it clear....what posts by Ravi demonstrate what you claim they demonstrate.  You did not link or quote any of her posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hey dimwit
> 
> it has already been posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have no link...just your statement.  So, again...what post of Ravi's made you say what you said.....link Ravi's post here >>>>>>>>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey* stupid* this thread is the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that retard is too lazy or rather too overwhelmed to find the quotes. FAIL!!!
Click to expand...

I bet he was a hit in school...."Johnny, You didn't give evidence for your thesis statement except for stating it's all on the internet.   That's not good enough."


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Grampa Murked U said:


> ...... abandoned building in the middle of nowhere?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey dimwit
> 
> it has already been posted
> 
> 
> 
> You have no link...just your statement.  So, again...what post of Ravi's made you say what you said.....link Ravi's post here >>>>>>>>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey* stupid* this thread is the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that retard is too lazy or rather too overwhelmed to find the quotes. FAIL!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet he was a hit in school...."Johnny, You didn't give evidence for your thesis statement except for stating it's all on the internet.   That's not good enough."
Click to expand...

Maybe he found the libturd bible that states facts and evidence is not required


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...... abandoned building in the middle of nowhere?
Click to expand...

Since you posted last


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have no link...just your statement.  So, again...what post of Ravi's made you say what you said.....link Ravi's post here >>>>>>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hey* stupid* this thread is the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that retard is too lazy or rather too overwhelmed to find the quotes. FAIL!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet he was a hit in school...."Johnny, You didn't give evidence for your thesis statement except for stating it's all on the internet.   That's not good enough."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he found the libturd bible that states facts and evidence is not required
Click to expand...

I've not heard of that "libturd bible"....can you link to it for us, please?


----------



## Dhara

The militia group occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon has devolved into infighting as participants deal with harsh realities. Although they wish to start an armed confrontation with the government, at this rate their operation may sabotage itself before such an event occurs.

An initial point of contention at the refuge was the spending of donation money by one of the occupiers, Joe “Captain O” O’Shaugnessy. Allegedly, “Capt. O” ran off with loads of donation money to drink in a nearby motel after an argument over whether people should bring their children or wives to the occupation.

Another member of the ragtag militia group named Brian “Buddha” Cavalier was quick to abandon the occupation after his former confidants learned that he lied about serving in the military.

Most recently, Lewis Arthur, a man from a group called “Veterans on Patrol” claims to have visited the occupation with three men on Wednesday to remove a “radicalized” and “suicidal” veteran with PTSD. According to several reports by Arthur’s group, Blaine Cooper sucker-punched one of Arthur’s men, sending him to the hospital with a concussion and a re-arranged face.
Defeated by the Enemy Within: Oregon Militia Descends into Fist Fights and Paranoid Chaos


----------



## bodecea

Dhara said:


> The militia group occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon has devolved into infighting as participants deal with harsh realities. Although they wish to start an armed confrontation with the government, at this rate their operation may sabotage itself before such an event occurs.
> 
> An initial point of contention at the refuge was the spending of donation money by one of the occupiers, Joe “Captain O” O’Shaugnessy. Allegedly, “Capt. O” ran off with loads of donation money to drink in a nearby motel after an argument over whether people should bring their children or wives to the occupation.
> 
> Another member of the ragtag militia group named Brian “Buddha” Cavalier was quick to abandon the occupation after his former confidants learned that he lied about serving in the military.
> 
> Most recently, Lewis Arthur, a man from a group called “Veterans on Patrol” claims to have visited the occupation with three men on Wednesday to remove a “radicalized” and “suicidal” veteran with PTSD. According to several reports by Arthur’s group, Blaine Cooper sucker-punched one of Arthur’s men, sending him to the hospital with a concussion and a re-arranged face.
> Defeated by the Enemy Within: Oregon Militia Descends into Fist Fights and Paranoid Chaos


oopsie


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...... abandoned building in the middle of nowhere?
Click to expand...

I see you're relying on make believe characters to express what you aren't capable of expressing yourself.
Cartoons next up?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Carla_Danger

I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.


----------



## bodecea

Carla_Danger said:


> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.


Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.


----------



## Dot Com

So Y'all Qaeda is just sitting by the phone waiting?


----------



## Dhara

Those guys are unraveling all on their own.  I say, let them sit there for years and bring all the reporters home.


----------



## Camp

bodecea said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
Click to expand...

The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.


----------



## Dot Com

Camp said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
Click to expand...

So they aren't "roughing-it" after all.


----------



## bodecea

Dhara said:


> The militia group occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon has devolved into infighting as participants deal with harsh realities. Although they wish to start an armed confrontation with the government, at this rate their operation may sabotage itself before such an event occurs.
> 
> An initial point of contention at the refuge was the spending of donation money by one of the occupiers, Joe “Captain O” O’Shaugnessy. Allegedly, “Capt. O” ran off with loads of donation money to drink in a nearby motel after an argument over whether people should bring their children or wives to the occupation.
> 
> Another member of the ragtag militia group named Brian “Buddha” Cavalier was quick to abandon the occupation after his former confidants learned that he lied about serving in the military.
> 
> Most recently, Lewis Arthur, a man from a group called “Veterans on Patrol” claims to have visited the occupation with three men on Wednesday to remove a “radicalized” and “suicidal” veteran with PTSD. According to several reports by Arthur’s group, Blaine Cooper sucker-punched one of Arthur’s men, sending him to the hospital with a concussion and a re-arranged face.
> Defeated by the Enemy Within: Oregon Militia Descends into Fist Fights and Paranoid Chaos


How come Allie's not keeping us up to date on this stuff?


----------



## bodecea

Dhara said:


> Those guys are unraveling all on their own.  I say, let them sit there for years and bring all the reporters home.





Dhara said:


> Those guys are unraveling all on their own.  I say, let them sit there for years and bring all the reporters home.


Years?      Will they last a month?  More than a month?

Everyone is laughing at them....they can't threaten us all.


----------



## Camp

Dot Com said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So they aren't "roughing-it" after all.
Click to expand...

Roughing it? They are on a taxpayer subsidized vacation hanging our in a prime facility at a prime location.


----------



## koshergrl

Dhara said:


> Those guys are unraveling all on their own.  I say, let them sit there for years and bring all the reporters home.


Nobody's unraveling lol. People are coming from all over the state and the country to support them. The locals are 100 percent thrilled. And I guarantee that if limp wristed fags show up to pretend they represent locals, they'll get their asses kicked and find themselve barefoot, ten miles away from the nearest road.


----------



## Iceweasel

Camp said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So they aren't "roughing-it" after all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roughing it? They are on a taxpayer subsidized vacation hanging our in a prime facility at a prime location.
Click to expand...

Consider it a sanctuary city. See how easy it is when you get your mind right?


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Dhara said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those guys are unraveling all on their own.  I say, let them sit there for years and bring all the reporters home.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody's unraveling lol. People are coming from all over the state and the country to support them. The locals are 100 percent thrilled. And I guarantee that if limp wristed fags show up to pretend they represent locals, they'll get their asses kicked and find themselve barefoot, ten miles away from the nearest road.
Click to expand...

Riiiight.  Allie's in the Know, folks.   It's all Kumbaya there.


----------



## bodecea

Iceweasel said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So they aren't "roughing-it" after all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Roughing it? They are on a taxpayer subsidized vacation hanging our in a prime facility at a prime location.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Consider it a sanctuary city. See how easy it is when you get your mind right?
Click to expand...

A city, eh?


----------



## Camp

The place will fall apart when they run out of chips and candy bars again. No snacks, no motivation.


----------



## bodecea

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey* stupid* this thread is the link
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that retard is too lazy or rather too overwhelmed to find the quotes. FAIL!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet he was a hit in school...."Johnny, You didn't give evidence for your thesis statement except for stating it's all on the internet.   That's not good enough."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he found the libturd bible that states facts and evidence is not required
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've not heard of that "libturd bible"....can you link to it for us, please?
Click to expand...

Why no link.?   Aren't facts and evidence required?


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> The place will fall apart when they run out of chips and candy bars again. No snacks, no motivation.


Oh the Humanity!!!!!


----------



## jon_berzerk

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey shit for brains
> 
> you asked so i answered with this
> 
> 
> 
> *ravi demonstrates
> 
> that libtards can not imagine life without the help of the government
> 
> --LOL
> was that supposed to be profound?*
> 
> *no
> 
> simply an observation based on libtard postings*
> 
> 
> 
> So......to make it clear....what posts by Ravi demonstrate what you claim they demonstrate.  You did not link or quote any of her posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey dimwit
> 
> it has already been posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have no link...just your statement.  So, again...what post of Ravi's made you say what you said.....link Ravi's post here >>>>>>>>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey* stupid* this thread is the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!
Click to expand...



please do 

keep on posting idiotic comments


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.


Lol. So clueless.


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So......to make it clear....what posts by Ravi demonstrate what you claim they demonstrate.  You did not link or quote any of her posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hey dimwit
> 
> it has already been posted
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have no link...just your statement.  So, again...what post of Ravi's made you say what you said.....link Ravi's post here >>>>>>>>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey* stupid* this thread is the link
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> please do
> 
> keep on posting idiotic comments
Click to expand...

You're a hoot!   I'll give you that.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
Click to expand...

But the geniuses did cut power off to the fire station forty miles away, in what was a classic show of pique.


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. So clueless.
Click to expand...


must be because they are the owners 

--LOL


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. So clueless.
Click to expand...

Carla should have asked you first.  You're so in the Know.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But the geniuses did cut power off to the fire station forty miles away, in what was a classic show of pique.
Click to expand...

So you say.


----------



## koshergrl

jon_berzerk said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. So clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> must be because they are the owners
> 
> --LOL
Click to expand...

  Fed occupiers and statists are just not cut out for survival away from govt props...


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. So clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> must be because they are the owners
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fed occupiers and statists are just not cut out for survival away from govt props...
Click to expand...


exactly 

sounds like they would need government assistance 

to unclog a toilet 

--LOL


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But the geniuses did cut power off to the fire station forty miles away, in what was a classic show of pique.
Click to expand...




That is odd that the Harney Electric Co cut off the power to the fire guard station to prevent militants from relocating.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. So clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> must be because they are the owners
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fed occupiers and statists are just not cut out for survival away from govt props...
Click to expand...




So, why aren't you there offering your support?  You seem so committed to the cause.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Iceweasel said:


> Consider it a sanctuary city.




I'm going to consider it a Turd Sanctuary.


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But the geniuses did cut power off to the fire station forty miles away, in what was a classic show of pique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is odd that the Harney Electric Co cut off the power to the fire guard station to prevent militants from relocating.
Click to expand...


----------



## Camp

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But the geniuses did cut power off to the fire station forty miles away, in what was a classic show of pique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is odd that the Harney Electric Co cut off the power to the fire guard station to prevent militants from relocating.
Click to expand...

Feds are beginning to take control. The local sheriff and local authorities have done all they could, including an offer to escort the Bundy's and militia out of Oregon safely. Feds have taken over the refuge airport facilities and turned off electric at the fire station. Travel to and from the occupied area is being allowed because it is the best way to gather intelligence on the individuals occupying the facility and the resources available to them. Those travel privileges and visits by outsiders will soon be halted


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. So clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> must be because they are the owners
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fed occupiers and statists are just not cut out for survival away from govt props...
Click to expand...

Boy, you have that right. Those losers cannot even survive in a government building without begging on the internet for 'snacks'. I have been all over Harney county, camping in a tent, even, and never once had to beg for food. I guess some people are just not cut out to ever be more than a mile from a Safeway. The losers should get out of there before some of the locals get pissed and pitch them out.

The Governor of Oregon has told them that they are not welcome, the City Council of Burns, the people of Burns, and the Sheriff of Harney County have all told them that they are not welcome. The Oregon Cattlemen's Association has also stated they need to leave. The Piaute Indians have told them they don't want them there. The majority of the ranchers in the area consider them a damned idiots. Time for the fruitloopy assholes to leave.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But the geniuses did cut power off to the fire station forty miles away, in what was a classic show of pique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is odd that the Harney Electric Co cut off the power to the fire guard station to prevent militants from relocating.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



They can't all be morons in Oregon, can they?


----------



## Old Rocks

Carla, these are not Oregonians. They wouldn't survive here. Not a lot of toleration for worthless know-nothings in this state.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> hey* stupid* this thread is the link
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that retard is too lazy or rather too overwhelmed to find the quotes. FAIL!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet he was a hit in school...."Johnny, You didn't give evidence for your thesis statement except for stating it's all on the internet.   That's not good enough."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he found the libturd bible that states facts and evidence is not required
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've not heard of that "libturd bible"....can you link to it for us, please?
Click to expand...

Only if you share it with the class. Post that puppy up for everyone to see.


----------



## bodecea

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. So clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> must be because they are the owners
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fed occupiers and statists are just not cut out for survival away from govt props...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, why aren't you there offering your support?  You seem so committed to the cause.
Click to expand...

I was wondering that myself.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is completely made up of Ravi's comments?   Wow!  She be busy!
> 
> 
> 
> that retard is too lazy or rather too overwhelmed to find the quotes. FAIL!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I bet he was a hit in school...."Johnny, You didn't give evidence for your thesis statement except for stating it's all on the internet.   That's not good enough."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he found the libturd bible that states facts and evidence is not required
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've not heard of that "libturd bible"....can you link to it for us, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only if you share it with the class. Post that puppy up for everyone to see.
Click to expand...

Wait...you are the one that stated there was a "libturd bible".   Surely you were not lying.   Because that would wrong.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Old Rocks said:


> Carla, these are not Oregonians. They wouldn't survive here. Not a lot of toleration for worthless know-nothings in this state.




Oh, I know.  I was talking about them cutting the power to the fire station.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The visitor center also houses the refuge museum. There is concern cutting off the electric could cause broken water pipes and other weather-related problems that could cause serious damage to the facility and its contents. The other ranchers that  would be affected could easily be supplied with industrial sized emergency generators.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But the geniuses did cut power off to the fire station forty miles away, in what was a classic show of pique.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is odd that the Harney Electric Co cut off the power to the fire guard station to prevent militants from relocating.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




I have no idea of why you think that's funny.  You seem to think you've got one up on me. I have no control over what you nitwits do up there in Oregon.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> that retard is too lazy or rather too overwhelmed to find the quotes. FAIL!!!
> 
> 
> 
> I bet he was a hit in school...."Johnny, You didn't give evidence for your thesis statement except for stating it's all on the internet.   That's not good enough."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe he found the libturd bible that states facts and evidence is not required
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've not heard of that "libturd bible"....can you link to it for us, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only if you share it with the class. Post that puppy up for everyone to see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait...you are the one that stated there was a "libturd bible".   Surely you were not lying.   Because that would wrong.
Click to expand...

Here:
http://youtu.be/D5FzCeV0ZFc


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet he was a hit in school...."Johnny, You didn't give evidence for your thesis statement except for stating it's all on the internet.   That's not good enough."
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he found the libturd bible that states facts and evidence is not required
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've not heard of that "libturd bible"....can you link to it for us, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only if you share it with the class. Post that puppy up for everyone to see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait...you are the one that stated there was a "libturd bible".   Surely you were not lying.   Because that would wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here:
> http://youtu.be/D5FzCeV0ZFc
Click to expand...

Um, that doesn't even make sense considering what you claimed about there being some "libturd bible".      Are you sure you didn't get confused and were thinking of some wingnut bible?

It IS amusing, tho, to see how far you had to go back for that.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he found the libturd bible that states facts and evidence is not required
> 
> 
> 
> I've not heard of that "libturd bible"....can you link to it for us, please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only if you share it with the class. Post that puppy up for everyone to see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait...you are the one that stated there was a "libturd bible".   Surely you were not lying.   Because that would wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here:
> http://youtu.be/D5FzCeV0ZFc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um, that doesn't even make sense considering what you claimed about there being some "libturd bible".      Are you sure you didn't get confused and were thinking of some wingnut bible?
> 
> It IS amusing, tho, to see how far you had to go back for that.
Click to expand...

It's where it started why not go back there? Out of control libturds started right there.


----------



## koshergrl

Armed 'security detail' visits Oregon refuge occupation

Locals made a new sign for the refuge. Harney county residents do support them. They've supported them, sent supplies, visited, and hosted the militia in their homes. The people securing the perimeter now are Oregonians, Old fag is presenting a false narrative be cause he is a statist puke.


----------



## koshergrl

The locals have renamed the refuge the Harney County Resource Center, and covered the refuge sign with a new sign that identifies it as such.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Carla, these are not Oregonians. They wouldn't survive here. Not a lot of toleration for worthless know-nothings in this state.


The locals support them. old rocks is a liar.


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carla, these are not Oregonians. They wouldn't survive here. Not a lot of toleration for worthless know-nothings in this state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I know.  I was talking about them cutting the power to the fire station.
Click to expand...

Lolol


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carla, these are not Oregonians. They wouldn't survive here. Not a lot of toleration for worthless know-nothings in this state.
> 
> 
> 
> The locals support them. old rocks is a liar.
Click to expand...

Walden, GOP candidates, others weigh in on takeover

And the Oregon Cattlemen's Association issued this statement:

Today, January 4, 2016 Oregon ranchers Dwight and Steve Hammond have left their homes to report to a federal prison. Both ranchers are faithful, long term Oregon Cattlemen's Association members. Many have asked where the association stands on the Hammond's predicament.

The Oregon Cattlemen's Association has declared that they do not support illegal activity taken against the government but has, and will continue, to support the Hammonds via avenues that are in accordance with the law.

John O'Keeffe, current president of the OCA, said the ranchers in Burns strive to work together with surrounding agencies.

"The community of Burns and the ranchers there have been very resourceful in working together with agencies on many wildlife issues,'" he said. 'Furthermore, OCA does not support illegal activity taken against the government. This includes militia takeover of government property, such as the Malheur Wildlife Refuge."

*Sure, Kosher, sure.*


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Carla, these are not Oregonians. They wouldn't survive here. Not a lot of toleration for worthless know-nothings in this state.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The locals support them. old rocks is a liar.
Click to expand...

Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour

Ranchers and other longtime residents said theyfelt their concerns, including land use issues and employment after the decline of the timber industry in Oregon, haven’t been talked about on a national scale until the armed men took over the federal building.

Still, a majority of speakers said they would like the refuge occupiers to leave. Early in the meeting, Harney County Sheriff David Ward asked for a straw poll of who would like the militants to peacefully return to their homes. Nearly every hand in the room shot up.

Multiple residents volunteered to travel with Ward to the refuge Thursday morning and ask the militants to go.

*They wanted them to go then, even more so as the dingleberries are showing signs of becoming increasingly unstable.*


----------



## Old Rocks

Best thing that could happen now would be a six foot snow storm, and then a week or so of subzero temperatures with high winds. Knock out their electrical power, and see how tough these assholes are.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Best thing that could happen now would be a six foot snow storm, and then a week or so of subzero temperatures with high winds. Knock out their electrical power, and see how tough these assholes are.


Omg lol you totally don't get this. They will be fine without electricity. 

I like the new sign the locals made, don't you? I'm going to get a copy of the elementary school paper with the Bundy interview in it


----------



## Old Rocks

And how will the silly little turds get their snacks? Beer? LOL


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> And how will the silly little turds get their snacks? Beer? LOL


The locals have stocked them so thoroughly they have to have somebody managing it


----------



## Geaux4it

this is how it starts. The bedwetters don't like what is happening in Oregon. Can't have folks thinking for themselves. They need big brother to tell them what light bulbs they need all the way down to how to wipe their ass with low flush toilets

Under achievers deluxe

-Geaux


----------



## koshergrl

I posted the original article published by the oca, where they said they absolutely sympathize with the people of Harney county. You will notice that th enemedia never names all the ppl they claim object to the presence of the Bundy occupation. That's because the only ppl who voice disapproval are outsiders, special interest groups, and plants.

Locals are supplying and supporting the Hammond. They are named in the articles. People from all over the rural areas of Oregon have voiced their support, and are showing up in Harney county to show their support. They are careful in their wording because the blm and the left in general is famous for frivolous lawsuits and retaliatory action against landowners and residents.


----------



## Old Rocks

Bundy militia standoff escalates when another heavily-armed group arrives to provide ‘security’

There may be more drama afoot at the Bundy militia standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

In a moment of irony, a new group of armed miltiamen has arrived at the standoff in Harney County, Oregon, and the ones that have been there since last Saturday say their presence is unwanted.

The Oregonian reports that the Pacific Patriot Network has sent armed “security” — some of whom are carrying semi-automatic rifles — to the standoff on Saturday. But an attorney mediating the dispute between Ammon Bundy and federal officials said Bundy wants them to leave.

“We don’t need that. We don’t want it and we’re asking you to leave,” Todd MacFarlane, an attorney mediating the dispute on behalf of the Bundys, told reporters Saturday.

In a press conference Saturday morning, a representative from the Bundy group said they are looking to de-escalate the situation.

Locals in the area of the standoff have, in turn, condemned the Bundy takeover. Residents have expressed fear at the presence of armed militia and asked the outsiders to leave.

MacFarlane said members of the original occupation are “alarmed” by the new arrivals.

*Sheesh, send in a few cases of Jack Daniels, wait a few hours, then go in and collect the whole bunch of them.*


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> I posted the original article published by the oca, where they said they absolutely sympathize with the people of Harney county. You will notice that th enemedia never names all the ppl they claim object to the presence of the Bundy occupation. That's because the only ppl who voice disapproval are outsiders, special interest groups, and plants.
> 
> Locals are supplying and supporting the Hammond. They are named in the articles. People from all over the rural areas of Oregon have voiced their support, and are showing up in Harney county to show their support. They are careful in their wording because the blm and the left in general is famous for frivolous lawsuits and retaliatory action against landowners and residents.


LOL. Yes, supporting the Hammond's and telling these fruitloopy assholes to go home. And now there are even more fruitloopy assholes on the scene. LOL


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Bundy militia standoff escalates when another heavily-armed group arrives to provide ‘security’
> 
> There may be more drama afoot at the Bundy militia standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> In a moment of irony, a new group of armed miltiamen has arrived at the standoff in Harney County, Oregon, and the ones that have been there since last Saturday say their presence is unwanted.
> 
> The Oregonian reports that the Pacific Patriot Network has sent armed “security” — some of whom are carrying semi-automatic rifles — to the standoff on Saturday. But an attorney mediating the dispute between Ammon Bundy and federal officials said Bundy wants them to leave.
> 
> “We don’t need that. We don’t want it and we’re asking you to leave,” Todd MacFarlane, an attorney mediating the dispute on behalf of the Bundys, told reporters Saturday.
> 
> In a press conference Saturday morning, a representative from the Bundy group said they are looking to de-escalate the situation.
> 
> Locals in the area of the standoff have, in turn, condemned the Bundy takeover. Residents have expressed fear at the presence of armed militia and asked the outsiders to leave.
> 
> MacFarlane said members of the original occupation are “alarmed” by the new arrivals.
> 
> *Sheesh, send in a few cases of Jack Daniels, wait a few hours, then go in and collect the whole bunch of them.*


The Bundy group advised them they don't need the perimeter. They have their one mounted Irrigon guy who holds the flag and welcomes locals when they come to bring supplies and signs and food and such.


----------



## Old Rocks

Load up a forest service fire fighting tanker with essence of skunk, and douse the lot of these idiots. Natural odor for them.


----------



## Old Rocks

Like they welcomed the people from Arizona? LOL


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Load up a forest service fire fighting tanker with essence of skunk, and douse the lot of these idiots. Natural odor for them.


Oh brother. You've thrown in with bode, I'd say if you had any credibility at all before, you lost it. The fake naval commander and the fake rural Oregonian are quite a team, lol ok.


----------



## Old Rocks

Occupied Oregon wildlife refuge known for listening to ranchers

The plan also has earned the respect of the cattleman whose herd grazed on refuge pasture this past week. He is Fred Otley, a fourth-generation rancher whose 93-year-old mother, Mary Otley, is still agile enough to run the swather that cuts grasses in refuge fields.

Over the years, Fred Otley has had plenty of conflicts with federal land managers. But the current refuge leadership appears to have earned his respect, even as some disagreements still persist about management of federal lands that provide his cattle vital fall and winter feed.

“To me, what is important is that the refuge has really listened and taken a more collaborative approach,” Otley said. “Automatically, that helps build better relations with the community.”

The efforts to develop the 2013 refuge plan have had ripple effects. They helped lay the groundwork for another cooperative program to protect sage grouse that started in Harney County, home to Malheur, and is credited with helping convince the Interior Department last September to not list the grouse under the Endangered Species Act.


The program enlists ranchers to take steps on their private land to protect the bird, such as by removing weeds or uprooting junipers that offered perches for predators — moves that can also improve pastures.

“We started saying what’s good for the bird is good for the herd,” said Tom Sharp, a Harney County rancher who helped launch the cooperative effort that grew to encompass 53 ranches and 320,000 acres

*Kosher and too many others completely lying about what is going on down there.*


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Occupied Oregon wildlife refuge known for listening to ranchers
> 
> The plan also has earned the respect of the cattleman whose herd grazed on refuge pasture this past week. He is Fred Otley, a fourth-generation rancher whose 93-year-old mother, Mary Otley, is still agile enough to run the swather that cuts grasses in refuge fields.
> 
> Over the years, Fred Otley has had plenty of conflicts with federal land managers. But the current refuge leadership appears to have earned his respect, even as some disagreements still persist about management of federal lands that provide his cattle vital fall and winter feed.
> 
> “To me, what is important is that the refuge has really listened and taken a more collaborative approach,” Otley said. “Automatically, that helps build better relations with the community.”
> 
> The efforts to develop the 2013 refuge plan have had ripple effects. They helped lay the groundwork for another cooperative program to protect sage grouse that started in Harney County, home to Malheur, and is credited with helping convince the Interior Department last September to not list the grouse under the Endangered Species Act.
> 
> 
> The program enlists ranchers to take steps on their private land to protect the bird, such as by removing weeds or uprooting junipers that offered perches for predators — moves that can also improve pastures.
> 
> “We started saying what’s good for the bird is good for the herd,” said Tom Sharp, a Harney County rancher who helped launch the cooperative effort that grew to encompass 53 ranches and 320,000 acres
> 
> *Kosher and too many others completely lying about what is going on down there.*


Lol   you should call in Lakota to support you, then you'll have a fake token native, too. Commute the sentences of Dwight Lincoln Hammond Jr and Steven Dwight Hammond, both of Harney County Oregon. | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government


----------



## Old Rocks

Hell, I would like to see the Hammond's sentence commuted to time served. But that is no longer the issue. The issue now is the armed takeover of a Federal property. That is what is front and center on all the news. The Bundy's have effetively shoved the Hammond's justified issue with the silly sentence under the terrorism law to the back burner, and substituted their idiocy.

And you have gone right along with the Bundy's.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Hell, I would like to see the Hammond's sentence commuted to time served. But that is no longer the issue. The issue now is the armed takeover of a Federal property. That is what is front and center on all the news. The Bundy's have effetively shoved the Hammond's justified issue with the silly sentence under the terrorism law to the back burner, and substituted their idiocy.
> 
> And you have gone right along with the Bundy's.


Every Harney county resident interviewed,  including the Hammonds, say they are thankful for the attention being brought to the situation.


----------



## Iceweasel

Old Rocks said:


> Carla, these are not Oregonians. They wouldn't survive here. Not a lot of toleration for worthless know-nothings in this state.


Hahaha...that's comedy gold right there. "Oregonians be all smart and shit....arrrrrrgh....".


----------



## Old Rocks

The march down main street brought attention to that issue. The occupation of the Refuge and demands that is be dismantled, took attention away from the plight of the Hammond's. Now we have more idiots showing up and seeking an armed confrontation with the government. All the government, County, State, and Federal. How long before one of the loopy bastards shoots a local rancher or a County law enforcement officer?


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> The march down main street brought attention to that issue. The occupation of the Refuge and demands that is be dismantled, took attention away from the plight of the Hammond's. Now we have more idiots showing up and seeking an armed confrontation with the government. All the government, County, State, and Federal. How long before one of the loopy bastards shoots a local rancher or a County law enforcement officer?


Nope. Every individuals interviewed says they are thankful for the attention the BUNDYS have brought. Obviously, as they crafted the new sign.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> The locals have renamed the refuge the Harney County Resource Center, and covered the refuge sign with a new sign that identifies it as such.





Are they calling it the Turd Sanctuary now?


----------



## koshergrl

Harney County resident may want militia to remain


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've not heard of that "libturd bible"....can you link to it for us, please?
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you share it with the class. Post that puppy up for everyone to see.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait...you are the one that stated there was a "libturd bible".   Surely you were not lying.   Because that would wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Here:
> http://youtu.be/D5FzCeV0ZFc
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um, that doesn't even make sense considering what you claimed about there being some "libturd bible".      Are you sure you didn't get confused and were thinking of some wingnut bible?
> 
> It IS amusing, tho, to see how far you had to go back for that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's where it started why not go back there? Out of control libturds started right there.
Click to expand...

I love your evidence.


----------



## bodecea

Old Rocks said:


> Bundy militia standoff escalates when another heavily-armed group arrives to provide ‘security’
> 
> There may be more drama afoot at the Bundy militia standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> In a moment of irony, a new group of armed miltiamen has arrived at the standoff in Harney County, Oregon, and the ones that have been there since last Saturday say their presence is unwanted.
> 
> The Oregonian reports that the Pacific Patriot Network has sent armed “security” — some of whom are carrying semi-automatic rifles — to the standoff on Saturday. But an attorney mediating the dispute between Ammon Bundy and federal officials said Bundy wants them to leave.
> 
> “We don’t need that. We don’t want it and we’re asking you to leave,” Todd MacFarlane, an attorney mediating the dispute on behalf of the Bundys, told reporters Saturday.
> 
> In a press conference Saturday morning, a representative from the Bundy group said they are looking to de-escalate the situation.
> 
> Locals in the area of the standoff have, in turn, condemned the Bundy takeover. Residents have expressed fear at the presence of armed militia and asked the outsiders to leave.
> 
> MacFarlane said members of the original occupation are “alarmed” by the new arrivals.
> 
> *Sheesh, send in a few cases of Jack Daniels, wait a few hours, then go in and collect the whole bunch of them.*


Read: " We don't want to share the limelight with them."


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Load up a forest service fire fighting tanker with essence of skunk, and douse the lot of these idiots. Natural odor for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother. You've thrown in with bode, I'd say if you had any credibility at all before, you lost it. The fake naval commander and the fake rural Oregonian are quite a team, lol ok.
Click to expand...

I do have a question for you, Allie...why haven't any of the GOP Presidential candidates chimed in on this yet?


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Occupied Oregon wildlife refuge known for listening to ranchers
> 
> The plan also has earned the respect of the cattleman whose herd grazed on refuge pasture this past week. He is Fred Otley, a fourth-generation rancher whose 93-year-old mother, Mary Otley, is still agile enough to run the swather that cuts grasses in refuge fields.
> 
> Over the years, Fred Otley has had plenty of conflicts with federal land managers. But the current refuge leadership appears to have earned his respect, even as some disagreements still persist about management of federal lands that provide his cattle vital fall and winter feed.
> 
> “To me, what is important is that the refuge has really listened and taken a more collaborative approach,” Otley said. “Automatically, that helps build better relations with the community.”
> 
> The efforts to develop the 2013 refuge plan have had ripple effects. They helped lay the groundwork for another cooperative program to protect sage grouse that started in Harney County, home to Malheur, and is credited with helping convince the Interior Department last September to not list the grouse under the Endangered Species Act.
> 
> 
> The program enlists ranchers to take steps on their private land to protect the bird, such as by removing weeds or uprooting junipers that offered perches for predators — moves that can also improve pastures.
> 
> “We started saying what’s good for the bird is good for the herd,” said Tom Sharp, a Harney County rancher who helped launch the cooperative effort that grew to encompass 53 ranches and 320,000 acres
> 
> *Kosher and too many others completely lying about what is going on down there.*
> 
> 
> 
> Lol   you should call in Lakota to support you, then you'll have a fake token native, too. Commute the sentences of Dwight Lincoln Hammond Jr and Steven Dwight Hammond, both of Harney County Oregon. | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government
Click to expand...

They aren't gonna get commuted now with all the illegal attention.  Too bad.


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Load up a forest service fire fighting tanker with essence of skunk, and douse the lot of these idiots. Natural odor for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother. You've thrown in with bode, I'd say if you had any credibility at all before, you lost it. The fake naval commander and the fake rural Oregonian are quite a team, lol ok.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do have a question for you, Allie...why haven't any of the GOP Presidential candidates chimed in on this yet?
Click to expand...


Why should they, there are so many MORE IMPORTANT THINGS


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell, I would like to see the Hammond's sentence commuted to time served. But that is no longer the issue. The issue now is the armed takeover of a Federal property. That is what is front and center on all the news. The Bundy's have effetively shoved the Hammond's justified issue with the silly sentence under the terrorism law to the back burner, and substituted their idiocy.
> 
> And you have gone right along with the Bundy's.
> 
> 
> 
> Every Harney county resident interviewed,  including the Hammonds, say they are thankful for the attention being brought to the situation.
Click to expand...

I love how you make stuff up.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

peach174 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> The person you were addressing made those photoshops?   Link to that, Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes indeed you certainly are severely retarded.
> 
> Shepard Fairey-designed Obama portrait on cover of upcoming Rolling Stone
> 
> 
> Intellect of a rotting corpse, the wit of a golfball - that's our Bode.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Forget it.
> You will not change their minds.
> They are defending the Government and can't see the tyranny, just like the people who defended and was loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try and stick to the issue. Some radical elements with a weird interpretation of the Constitution in regards to public ownership of property are trying to promote that weird interpretation with an armed takeover of a public facility. If we wanted to let loose of the properties they covet we could start selling off sections of our land and make billions of dollars, even trillions of dollars. Can you imagine the funds we could raise by selling off the lakeside and riverside lots we own all over the west. Far more than we would ever get leasing it out for grazing land for cattle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
Click to expand...


Except the state doesn't own the land.


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Load up a forest service fire fighting tanker with essence of skunk, and douse the lot of these idiots. Natural odor for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother. You've thrown in with bode, I'd say if you had any credibility at all before, you lost it. The fake naval commander and the fake rural Oregonian are quite a team, lol ok.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do have a question for you, Allie...why haven't any of the GOP Presidential candidates chimed in on this yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should they, there are so many MORE IMPORTANT THINGS
Click to expand...

Uh huh......right.


----------



## Vigilante

bodecea said:


> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Load up a forest service fire fighting tanker with essence of skunk, and douse the lot of these idiots. Natural odor for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother. You've thrown in with bode, I'd say if you had any credibility at all before, you lost it. The fake naval commander and the fake rural Oregonian are quite a team, lol ok.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do have a question for you, Allie...why haven't any of the GOP Presidential candidates chimed in on this yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should they, there are so many MORE IMPORTANT THINGS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uh huh......right.
Click to expand...


I know I am, I'm 99.8% of the time RIGHT! You on the other hand are almost always wrong!


----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> who threatened who?  I think your post gives the wrong perception.  You made it like the militia was threatening people when in fact it is the 74 year old mother doing it.  hmmmmmmmmmmm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They haven't been threatening anybody. The townspeople welcomed them, they continue to welcome them, they are appreciative of the attention the Bundys have brought to the issues of the area. And they sure as shit don't want a flap handed douchebag progressive like OR in there smarting off. Omg I can see it now hahahahaha....
Click to expand...


Really?

Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour


----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having the State manage the refuge rather than the Feds is not going private.
> It will still be managed by the Government.
> 
> 
> 
> Why in the world would we give away an investment we have been maintaining and caring for 108 years. Some of that property were paid for with hard cold cash from the taxpayers and other federal revenue sources. How do we get reimbursed for that property? Furthermore, the Congress has it in its power to turn that land over to the state or change its use, not armed protesters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> unless deaf ears in Washington are ignoring it, perhaps a fight is what is needed.  Why is it the president has to use executive orders when Congress is supposed to be utilized?  you all are just libturds, and stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why do you keep deflecting away from the topic? BTW, all Presidents have used executive orders, Republican and Democrat. EO's are a tool of the Executive branch of government that is used when Congress fails to address issues in a timely fashion. They have it in their power to override executive orders if they can muster the votes. It is a constitutionally accepted procedure that has been confirmed by SCOTUS on numerous occasions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is it I have deflected here is my very first post:
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who threatened who?  I think your post gives the wrong perception.  You made it like the militia was threatening people when in fact it is the 74 year old mother doing it.  hmmmmmmmmmmm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OR lies in order to push his agenda. He thinks people don't notice.
Click to expand...




koshergrl said:


> OR lies in order to push his agenda. He thinks people don't notice.



^ Isn't that ironic?


----------



## bodecea

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vigilante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Load up a forest service fire fighting tanker with essence of skunk, and douse the lot of these idiots. Natural odor for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother. You've thrown in with bode, I'd say if you had any credibility at all before, you lost it. The fake naval commander and the fake rural Oregonian are quite a team, lol ok.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do have a question for you, Allie...why haven't any of the GOP Presidential candidates chimed in on this yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should they, there are so many MORE IMPORTANT THINGS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Uh huh......right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know I am, I'm 99.8% of the time RIGHT! You on the other hand are almost always wrong!
Click to expand...

Uh huh....right.


----------



## bodecea

I would, if I were a vendor in town, make sure they paid in cash for everything.   There are some serious deadbeats in that group.


----------



## Dhara

Oregon Militia Wants Hay, Menthol 100s, And French Vanilla Creamer


----------



## Carla_Danger

Hutch Starskey said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns
> 
> Payne and Bundy say it's up to local residents what happens next. If the locals decide to declare the county a sanctuary for the Hammonds, the militia is ready.
> 
> "We're sending the message: We will protect you," Payne said.
> 
> Such talk rattles the community, as has conduct locals blame on the strangers.
> 
> Tensions persist.
> 
> A Utah man tied to Bundy and Payne disrupted a state court session, insisting the judge empanel a special grand jury to investigate the Hammond matter. Federal employees report they have been followed around town and to their homes. Payne said no one in his group has followed federal employees. But he acknowledged knocking on the front door of a home featuring a handmade "Go Home Bundys" sign. Payne said he wanted to understand the homeowner's concerns.
> 
> Signs on street poles pronounce, "Militia go home!"
> 
> Others reply: "You are the militia."
> 
> One episode in particular has upset the community.
> 
> The sheriff said three militiamen and one woman, one with a gun strapped to his hip, engaged his 74-year-old mother and 78-year-old father at a yard sale being held at the American Legion. When the men criticized the sheriff, his mother bristled, and said she didn't need their protection from the government.
> 
> Later, the men showed up at the sheriff's office to complain about the exchange involving his mother.
> 
> She had, they said, threatened them.
> 
> *I wish I was living down there at present. That area does not need these assholes threatening people. Time for the people of Harney county to give the heave-ho to these trouble makers. They have already shown their courage and bravery by threatening old people.
> 
> If they really go overboard and actually do violence against any of the locals, they will find the people of Harney county a lot tougher than those little couch potatoes ever thought of being. They have also been threatening the Sheriff, and he has even been receiving death threats. Time those little turds get an asskicking, and that area is known for giving that kind of treatment to outsiders that come in to create trouble.*
> 
> 
> 
> who threatened who?  I think your post gives the wrong perception.  You made it like the militia was threatening people when in fact it is the 74 year old mother doing it.  hmmmmmmmmmmm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They haven't been threatening anybody. The townspeople welcomed them, they continue to welcome them, they are appreciative of the attention the Bundys have brought to the issues of the area. And they sure as shit don't want a flap handed douchebag progressive like OR in there smarting off. Omg I can see it now hahahahaha....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?
> 
> Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour
Click to expand...



She's a liar and a dingbat. They've been interviewing residents on the news who say they want Ya'll Qaeda to go home.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> Armed 'security detail' visits Oregon refuge occupation
> 
> Locals made a new sign for the refuge. Harney county residents do support them. They've supported them, sent supplies, visited, and hosted the militia in their homes. The people securing the perimeter now are Oregonians, Old fag is presenting a false narrative be cause he is a statist puke.






koshergrl said:


> Locals made a new sign for the refuge. Harney county residents do support them.



Really?


----------



## Carla_Danger

Dhara said:


> Oregon Militia Wants Hay, Menthol 100s, And French Vanilla Creamer




So we're supposed to give aid to the Yeehawdists?  I think there's a word for that.


----------



## Dhara

I overheard a Native American local interviewed about the standoff.  It's kind of nervy from her perspective for the ranchers to act like they're the rightful owners of that land.


----------



## charwin95

Vigilante said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Load up a forest service fire fighting tanker with essence of skunk, and douse the lot of these idiots. Natural odor for them.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh brother. You've thrown in with bode, I'd say if you had any credibility at all before, you lost it. The fake naval commander and the fake rural Oregonian are quite a team, lol ok.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do have a question for you, Allie...why haven't any of the GOP Presidential candidates chimed in on this yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why should they, there are so many MORE IMPORTANT THINGS
Click to expand...


Yeah right..... Like Trump feud with Samuel Jackson about golf cheating. That is very important. Any of these GOP clowns can open their mouth anytime they want if they want to say something. This is an important American issue.


----------



## Dhara

Who's Allie?


----------



## koshergrl

Lol...The Indians showed up at the same time as settlers....after the feds kicked them off their REAL ancestral lands. Those idiots have been victimized in exactly the same way as the ranchers....And those who still own land are still being victimized.


----------



## Dhara

Imagine if this had been a group of Native Americans taking over federal land with guns.  They would have been slaughtered by now.


----------



## koshergrl

Dhara said:


> Who's Allie?


That's the name they use when they want to intimidAte me and remind me and everybody else that they think they have personal info on me. pm them, they'll share everything they have about my location, my kids, etc.


----------



## Dhara

KING: Armed militia in Ore. takeover protected by white skin


----------



## koshergrl

Dhara said:


> Imagine if this had been a group of Native Americans taking over federal land with guns.  They would have been slaughtered by now.


Dumbass. They are part of this group: Before the Bundys and the Hammonds, the BLM put these Shoshones through a living hell


----------



## koshergrl

Dhara said:


> KING: Armed militia in Ore. takeover protected by white skin


----------



## bodecea

Dhara said:


> KING: Armed militia in Ore. takeover protected by white skin


A very valid point.  I wonder what would happen if they get some black supporters coming in to stand with them.


----------



## RollingThunder

The new flag of the Y'all Qaeda YeeHawdists...


----------



## jc456

jc456 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been reading the posts and I did acknowledge you were right about the interstates.    Wait....you think the states own them simply because of the word "state"?   Do you know what the word "inter" means?
> 
> And state schools are ONLY federally funded if they use Title 1 or Free and Reduced Lunch funds.
> 
> Now tell us about State Lands vs Federal Lands.
> 
> 
> 
> what is it you'd like to know that you can't look up on the internet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's more fun to hear it from you.  So...tell us the pros and cons of state land vs federal land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems to bother you, so you have the floor let's hear about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously...what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do the Feds lose?
Click to expand...

Anybody answer yet?


----------



## jc456

So, has anyone posted up what law has been violated?  Hmmmmm?


----------



## jc456

Any charges yet?


----------



## Dot Com

Dhara said:


> Oregon Militia Wants Hay, Menthol 100s, And French Vanilla Creamer


lolibertarians "roughing it"


----------



## jc456

So?


----------



## koshergrl

That's odd, Salvador Hernandez doesn't actually link or identify a source. More fake 'facts' being generated by social justice lunatics.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Any charges yet?


Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.


----------



## koshergrl

So there you have it. The protesters are supported by the locals. Lunatic lefties keep posting the same unsourced lies over and over, and have finally devolved into ad hominem attacks (desperate and also untrue but meh lol). Ill continue to post facts as I come across them.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
Click to expand...

Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..


----------



## bodecea

Grampa Murked U said:


> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?


First you said the building was abandoned...now you say it's vacant....keep trying...keep trying...


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

bodecea said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?
> 
> 
> 
> First you said the building was abandoned...now you say it's vacant....keep trying...keep trying...
Click to expand...

It is an unused  (abandoned) & vacant building. 

YOU keep trying


----------



## jc456

Dot Com said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dhara said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's Allie?
> 
> 
> 
> You can ask the poster currently known as "Koshergirl".  That is not her first name here.  She's "tried" to reinvent herself.  Didn't work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yep. That's not her first username here and she whines when people remind her of it. Same w/ 007
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She went into a major funk when they got rid of the rep system....she kept using neg rep as what she perceived to be a weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good heavens still wallowing in self pity over the fact that you couldn't accumulate rep, years after the fact...pssst...you're still universally reviled as the liar you are, bode. The past is in the past...let it go, commander Pete.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> whatever you have to tell yourself allie
Click to expand...

Hey can you explain what that has to do with the op?


----------



## koshergrl

Grampa Murked U said:


> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?


There for a while I thought the Oregonian reporters might storm the Harney County Resource Center, as the locals have renamed the refuge. But they couldn't get the locals to protect them...


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?
> 
> 
> 
> First you said the building was abandoned...now you say it's vacant....keep trying...keep trying...
Click to expand...

Is there a difference?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?
> 
> 
> 
> First you said the building was abandoned...now you say it's vacant....keep trying...keep trying...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there a difference?
Click to expand...

In a libtards mind, yes lol


----------



## jc456

Again, what laws have been violated, and any charges?


----------



## jc456

Hey by the way vacant, abandon are either the definition of occupied? Libturds?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?
> 
> 
> 
> First you said the building was abandoned...now you say it's vacant....keep trying...keep trying...
Click to expand...

Is it occupied? If it isn't occupied, doesn't that mean it's vacant abandon?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?
> 
> 
> 
> First you said the building was abandoned...now you say it's vacant....keep trying...keep trying...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it occupied? If it is an Accu pie doesn't that mean it's vacant abandon?
Click to expand...

It is now. By libtards worst nightmares, patriotic Americans.

You see, only black scum is allowed to protest, loot or burn down the property of others


----------



## jc456

Grampa Murked U said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?
> 
> 
> 
> First you said the building was abandoned...now you say it's vacant....keep trying...keep trying...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there a difference?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In a libtards mind, yes lol
Click to expand...

What is it I wonder. You believe libturds will explain? Nope, they're fkups


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
Click to expand...

I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;

www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php


----------



## jc456

Grampa Murked U said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?
> 
> 
> 
> First you said the building was abandoned...now you say it's vacant....keep trying...keep trying...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it occupied? If it is an Accu pie doesn't that mean it's vacant abandon?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is now. By libtards worst nightmares, patriotic Americans.
> 
> You see, only black scum is allowed to protest, loot or burn down the property of others
Click to expand...

I know fair well that. Mentioned it already.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
Click to expand...

 which is in turn Unsourced. Progressive tool.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
Click to expand...

So you can't give what the charges are?


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> which is in turn Unsourced. Progressive tool.
Click to expand...

The source is the Associated Press, known as AP, they are recognised as one of the most objective and reliable sources in the world.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
Click to expand...




jc456 said:


> Camp said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> koshergrl said:
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> 
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> Camp said:
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
Click to expand...

The Sheriff can't even give the exact charges because the FBI are keeping those charges secret. The Sheriff has however stated that he has been given assurance from the FBI there will be arrests made on federal charges at some point.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
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> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> jc456 said:
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> 
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> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
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> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Sheriff can't even give the exact charges because the FBI are keeping those charges secret. The Sheriff has however stated that he has been given assurance from the FBI there will be arrests made on federal charges at some point.
Click to expand...

Ok, so you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Got it, typically libturd fk


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
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> 
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> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> jc456 said:
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> 
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> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> which is in turn Unsourced. Progressive tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The source is the Associated Press, known as AP, they are recognised as one of the most objective and reliable sources in the world.
Click to expand...

So, does it bother you that the protesters in Chicago stopped  people from shopping at stores in the city for Christmas? Because some black kid got shot? Did those people shoot that kid? Are you telling me it makes sense to you?or are you gonna tell me you're a little turd


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
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> jc456 said:
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> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> 
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
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> 
> Camp said:
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> 
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Sheriff can't even give the exact charges because the FBI are keeping those charges secret. The Sheriff has however stated that he has been given assurance from the FBI there will be arrests made on federal charges at some point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, so you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Got it, typically libturd fk
Click to expand...




jc456 said:


> Camp said:
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> 
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> jc456 said:
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> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> 
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
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> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Sheriff can't even give the exact charges because the FBI are keeping those charges secret. The Sheriff has however stated that he has been given assurance from the FBI there will be arrests made on federal charges at some point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, so you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Got it, typically libturd fk
Click to expand...

You appear to be a slow learner. Perhaps your have a lot in common with the dopes at the wildlife refuge. Maybe you need some snacks. 

nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-seige-ends-sheiff-n491366


----------



## B. Kidd

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
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> 
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> 
> Camp said:
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> 
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> koshergrl said:
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> 
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> 
> Camp said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
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> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> 
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Sheriff can't even give the exact charges because the FBI are keeping those charges secret. The Sheriff has however stated that he has been given assurance from the FBI there will be arrests made on federal charges at some point.
Click to expand...


The charges will be a 'catch-all' charge of 'domestic terrorism' that the Fedcoats pinned on the Hammonds. Liberal gov'ts hate liberty!


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## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
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> Camp said:
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> jc456 said:
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> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> 
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
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> 
> 
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> koshergrl said:
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> 
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Sheriff can't even give the exact charges because the FBI are keeping those charges secret. The Sheriff has however stated that he has been given assurance from the FBI there will be arrests made on federal charges at some point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, so you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Got it, typically libturd fk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
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> Camp said:
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> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> 
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you can't give what the charges are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Sheriff can't even give the exact charges because the FBI are keeping those charges secret. The Sheriff has however stated that he has been given assurance from the FBI there will be arrests made on federal charges at some point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok, so you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Got it, typically libturd fk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You appear to be a slow learner. Perhaps your have a lot in common with the dopes at the wildlife refuge. Maybe you need some snacks.
> 
> nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-seige-ends-sheiff-n491366
Click to expand...

So, no charges? Thanks


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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> 
> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> which is in turn Unsourced. Progressive tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The source is the Associated Press, known as AP, they are recognised as one of the most objective and reliable sources in the world.
Click to expand...

But Allie thinks she's more reliable....lol


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> Camp said:
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> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> 
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> which is in turn Unsourced. Progressive tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The source is the Associated Press, known as AP, they are recognised as one of the most objective and reliable sources in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But Allie thinks she's more reliable....lol
Click to expand...

Relevance?


----------



## Seawytch

jc456 said:


> jc456 said:
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> Seawytch said:
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> bodecea said:
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> what is it you'd like to know that you can't look up on the internet?
> 
> 
> 
> It's more fun to hear it from you.  So...tell us the pros and cons of state land vs federal land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems to bother you, so you have the floor let's hear about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously...what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do the Feds lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anybody answer yet?
Click to expand...


Yes I did...and asked you, again, what the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state. The Feds lose a wildlife preserve and a bunch of land they lease to ranchers dirt cheap. 

I answered your question, how about you answer mine? What do the ranchers gain if the state, rather than the feds, own that land?


----------



## koshergrl

Seawytch said:


> jc456 said:
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> Seawytch said:
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> jc456 said:
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> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's more fun to hear it from you.  So...tell us the pros and cons of state land vs federal land.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to bother you, so you have the floor let's hear about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Seriously...what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do the Feds lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anybody answer yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes I did...and asked you, again, what the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state. The Feds lose a wildlife preserve and a bunch of land they lease to ranchers dirt cheap.
> 
> I answered your question, how about you answer mine? What do the ranchers gain if the state, rather than the feds, own that land?
Click to expand...

The feds cannot own land outside ports and forts. So try again. They own nothing.


----------



## teddyearp

Carla_Danger said:


> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.



Prove it.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any charges yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> which is in turn Unsourced. Progressive tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The source is the Associated Press, known as AP, they are recognised as one of the most objective and reliable sources in the world.
Click to expand...

Lol having written stories picked up by the ap I know who they are, lol. The fact is, there's no source for the information itself. The AP is the source of the story...but not the information. Or maybe it is lol. Another great 'sources say' moment brought to you by the enemedia.


----------



## teddyearp

Carla_Danger said:


> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.



And this proves exactly how much you are doing your own research on this situation. Nope.  Just keep on lapping up the dog food that you are being fed and keep your head in the sand.  Don't forget to stay up on facebook and the latest american idol either.


----------



## teddyearp

bodecea said:


> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.



Sort of truth.  There is no way the power company can isolate the refuge itself, so they would have to go down there and physically cut the power lines to the refuge causing damage to local grid.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Hey by the way vacant, abandon are either the definition of occupied? Libturds?


It is a visited center...closed for the holidays I believe.  Would a school closed the holidays be called abandoned?  Vacant?


----------



## koshergrl

teddyearp said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read somewhere that unless they go on the property to the buildings to shut it off, they would also be shutting it off for some nearby ranchers' homes and they don't want to risk being shot or make life uncomfortable for the nearby ranchers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sort of truth.  There is no 'isolation' for the refuge itself, so they would have to go down there and physically cut power lines causing damage to cut the power off to only the refuge.
Click to expand...

This has been explained fifteen different times. Irrelevant nonsense is all they have.


----------



## koshergrl

Ll


jon_berzerk said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. So clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> must be because they are the owners
> 
> --LOL
Click to expand...

I think it's because they plan to torch them, and want their fire station neutralized.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
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> koshergrl said:
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> Camp said:
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> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republican Presidential candidates are asking the assholes to stand down while the Mommy of the leader is sending out e-mails begging for supplies like coffee creamer, cigarettes, warm socks and sleeping bags.
> 
> 
> 
> Unsourced nonsense generated by the statist propaganda machine, and spread by armchair ignorami..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't make unsourced statements like that when I post. I read it in a Seattle paper, this one;
> 
> www.seattlepi.com/news/science/article/Call-for-supplies-as-Oregon-standoff-enters-6749383.php
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> which is in turn Unsourced. Progressive tool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The source is the Associated Press, known as AP, they are recognised as one of the most objective and reliable sources in the world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol having written stories picked up by the ap I know who they are, lol. The fact is, there's no source for the information itself. The AP is the source of the story...but not the information. Or maybe it is lol. Another great 'sources say' moment brought to you by the enemedia.
Click to expand...

What about this source, is it any good.

thatoregonlife.com/2016/01/ryan-bundy-is-single-and-ready-to-mingle-according-to-dating-profile/


----------



## teddyearp

Camp said:


> What about this source, is it any good.
> 
> thatoregonlife.com/2016/01/ryan-bundy-is-single-and-ready-to-mingle-according-to-dating-profile/



You have to be kidding, right?


----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about this source, is it any good.
> 
> thatoregonlife.com/2016/01/ryan-bundy-is-single-and-ready-to-mingle-according-to-dating-profile/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to be kidding, right?
Click to expand...

Read the comments


----------



## teddyearp

So folks, as I have posted many times here, this thread is more a slug fest of personal attacks than anything remotely attempting to post some truths.

I have to wonder, do the folks in Portland think that their meat just magically appears under cellophane in their local Safeway, or Trader Joe's?  Do you prefer that your beef is raised in a cage?  Now that's a good question with the PETA folks. Or are the ones against these folks actually vegans?

But what I would really like to do is implore you to look beyond what the .gov media is showing you.  There are many videos surfacing on YouTube lately showing many of the Harney County and Burns, Oregon town hall meetings that the .gov media has NOT published.  Yes, they are long and it will take quite an investment of your time to try to get some ACTUAL truth out of this situation, something that I doubt many of you will do, since you prefer the slop that the .gov media feeds you instead.

But if you are really interested in the truth here, I again implore you to take a look at them, here's a couple.  The first is from Jan 1, BEFORE the rally, the second is from a few weeks before.  The rest can be viewed on YouTube from the links that will show on the sidebar.  Look, Watch and learn for yourself, PLEASE? And again, I realize that they are very very long, but we all owe it to ourselves to take the time . . . .


----------



## teddyearp

Camp said:


> Read the comments



Oh yeah, the comments.  We all know how truthful those are.

REALLY?  NEXT!


----------



## Carla_Danger

teddyearp said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
Click to expand...


Here you go.


Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.

Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome


and...

BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.

At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey by the way vacant, abandon are either the definition of occupied? Libturds?
> 
> 
> 
> It is a visited center...closed for the holidays I believe.  Would a school closed the holidays be called abandoned?  Vacant?
Click to expand...

They lock it up during the winter, and most of the rest of the year. There are buildings like them allover...beautiful structures built at taxpayer expense to serve the taxpayers, supposedly...then locked up and jealously guarded by the feds.


----------



## Carla_Danger

teddyearp said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this proves exactly how much you are doing your own research on this situation. Nope.  Just keep on lapping up the dog food that you are being fed and keep your head in the sand.  Don't forget to stay up on facebook and the latest american idol either.
Click to expand...




I think that's pretty much what the YeeHawdists are spending their time on all day....posting on facebook, instead of working for a living, they're begging for snacks.


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
Click to expand...

  Big deal, it's a fight over a woman.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Ll
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. So clueless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> must be because they are the owners
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it's because they plan to torch them, and want their fire station neutralized.
Click to expand...

Of course you think.........


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey by the way vacant, abandon are either the definition of occupied? Libturds?
> 
> 
> 
> It is a visited center...closed for the holidays I believe.  Would a school closed the holidays be called abandoned?  Vacant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They lock it up during the winter, and most of the rest of the year. There are buildings like them allover...beautiful structures built at taxpayer expense to serve the taxpayers, supposedly...then locked up and jealously guarded by the feds.
Click to expand...

If you knew that area, you'd know why.   But you keep pretending you do.....and reveal that you know nothing.


----------



## JakeStarkey

The outsiders went home at the insider's request.

The outsiders wanted the women and children out so they could stage a Ruby Ridge or whatever.

Idiots.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Big deal, it's a fight over a woman.
Click to expand...



Obviously you are drunk, and no doubt on the Lords day. The fight was not over one particular woman.


----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read the comments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, the comments.  We all know how truthful those are.
> 
> REALLY?  NEXT!
Click to expand...

You are a genuine dope. If you had not figured out the article was satire, you would have learned it quickly from the comments section. The thread is full of legitimate links to numerous news sources and include many videos. I posted the satire because a couple of posters whined about my not giving links. When I posted links they complained about the validity of the links. When I pointed out they were from well known news sources, they complained that well-known sources were not good enough. Now someone who can't recognize satire in jumping in to expand the dopey know it all factor. Thanks for playing.


----------



## Rexx Taylor

i didnt know that body parts could cause so much chaos


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey by the way vacant, abandon are either the definition of occupied? Libturds?
> 
> 
> 
> It is a visited center...closed for the holidays I believe.  Would a school closed the holidays be called abandoned?  Vacant?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They lock it up during the winter, and most of the rest of the year. There are buildings like them allover...beautiful structures built at taxpayer expense to serve the taxpayers, supposedly...then locked up and jealously guarded by the feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you knew that area, you'd know why.   But you keep pretending you do.....and reveal that you know nothing.
Click to expand...

I just told you why, shortbus.


----------



## JakeStarkey

God made the World and rested.

God made man and rested.

God man woman and neither God nor man have rested ever since.

Of course body parts cause problems.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> check this:


Congress has passed laws over the years establishing federal lands. These were not challenged by the judiciary; and therefore, remain constitutional.


----------



## Seawytch

koshergrl said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems to bother you, so you have the floor let's hear about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously...what would the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do the Feds lose?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Anybody answer yet?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes I did...and asked you, again, what the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to the state. The Feds lose a wildlife preserve and a bunch of land they lease to ranchers dirt cheap.
> 
> I answered your question, how about you answer mine? What do the ranchers gain if the state, rather than the feds, own that land?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The feds cannot own land outside ports and forts. So try again. They own nothing.
Click to expand...


Pathetic dodge. Why won't anyone answer this simple question? What do the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to state control?


----------



## teddyearp

Carla_Danger said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
Click to expand...


Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.


----------



## JakeStarkey

teddyearp said:


> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.


Carla is right, and Teddy is a clown for arguing about what he does not know or won't admit.  The militia were forced to leave by the Hammonds, because the militia wanted the women and children to leave so an "armageddon" could be staged.  That was very smart by the Hammonds.  No one should die now if this is handled right.


----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
Click to expand...


youtube.com/watch?v=BpMF_xbYG6Y

It is an accepted Bundy tactic.


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Big deal, it's a fight over a woman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously you are drunk, and no doubt on the Lords day. The fight was not over one particular woman.
Click to expand...

Er..yes, it was. The aggressor, the freak who got his nose poked, is a personal acquaintance of Bundy who has a thing for the female author who is at the refuge with him. He's a Dumbass, like you.


----------



## teddyearp

So Jake, instead of providing some proof to back Carla's claim, you resort to name calling and conjecture. Gotcha.


----------



## JakeStarkey

teddyearp said:


> So Jake, instead of providing some proof to back Carla's claim, you resort to name calling and conjecture. Gotcha.


Gotcha.  You were told the truth of what was going on.  You don't believe because simply you don't want to.  You, like koshergrl and others, are merely


----------



## koshergrl

JakeStarkey said:


> The outsiders went home at the insider's request.
> 
> The outsiders wanted the women and children out so they could stage a Ruby Ridge or whatever.
> 
> Idiots.


 
Actually, the "outsiders"..i.e., the three percenters from Idaho, weren't there because of the woman at all. They were there to provide a perimeter to prevent sneak tactics by the feds.

And the Bundys sent them home because they felt they would escalate the situation and hamper the ongoing discussion and movement on and off the refuge.

Thus proving they have no aspirations of violence.

The jackass who showed up and instigated a fight was a single person (he might have had a friend with him)..he wasn't with the three percenters, he was just an acquaintance who showed up to make trouble for Bundy, personally.

In other words, fake once again proves he's a know-nothing lefty agitator.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Seawytch said:


> Pathetic dodge. Why won't anyone answer this simple question? What do the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to state control?



Obama told the nation, "if you like your food, you can keep your food." 

But as with everything Obama says, he is lying.

The increases since June 2009 are: Beef and veal: +35.2%, Pork: +27%, Fish and seafood: +20.1%, Eggs: +33.1%, Dairy: +16.1%, Fresh Fruits: +13.8%.

At the same time, Average Hourly Earnings have increased by 10.1%.

Food Prices Are Soaring And Washington Doesn't Care

Obama and the left in general are waging war on food production, no one is worse in the attacks on agriculture than Comrade General Brown in the Peoples Republic. But Obama is at war to make food unattainable to the middle and lower classes, particularly protein rich foods like meat. One of the ways that Obama has accomplished his goal of sharp increases in meat prices is by denying federal grazing rights that have been in place since the 1850's. The situation in Oregon is a reaction to this war on food by the Obamanation and his minions.

I don't know that turning the land over to the state would help, but a president not at war against the American people sure would.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?
> 
> 
> 
> There for a while I thought the Oregonian reporters might storm the Harney County Resource Center, as the locals have renamed the refuge. But they couldn't get the locals to protect them...
Click to expand...

No, the locals did not rename it that. The locos that have occupied the Malhuer Game Refuge did.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Once again, I posted the facts, and koshergrl shows her ignorance.

The outsiders wanted a firefight with the feds and were ordered out by the Hammonds.

koshergrl continues to


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetic dodge. Why won't anyone answer this simple question? What do the ranchers gain if the land is turned over to state control?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama told the nation, "if you like your food, you can keep your food."
> 
> But as with everything Obama says, he is lying.
> 
> The increases since June 2009 are: Beef and veal: +35.2%, Pork: +27%, Fish and seafood: +20.1%, Eggs: +33.1%, Dairy: +16.1%, Fresh Fruits: +13.8%.
> 
> At the same time, Average Hourly Earnings have increased by 10.1%.
> 
> Food Prices Are Soaring And Washington Doesn't Care
> 
> Obama and the left in general are waging war on food production, no one is worse in the attacks on agriculture than Comrade General Brown in the Peoples Republic. But Obama is at war to food unattainable to the middle and lower classes, particularly protein rich foods like meat. One of the ways that Obama has accomplished his goal of sharp increases in meat prices is by denying federal grazing rights that have been in place since the 1850's. The situation in Oregon is a reaction to this war on food by the Obamanation and his minions.
> 
> I don't know that turning the land over to the state would help, but a president not at war against the American people sure would.
Click to expand...

 
It would help. At the very least, they would make sure the fodder was kept down, reducing the intensity and destruction of wildfires.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone rescue the vacant building yet?
> 
> 
> 
> There for a while I thought the Oregonian reporters might storm the Harney County Resource Center, as the locals have renamed the refuge. But they couldn't get the locals to protect them...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, the locals did not rename it that. The locos that have occupied the Malhuer Game Refuge did.
Click to expand...

 Wrong. A local made the sign and placed it.


----------



## Old Rocks

teddyearp said:


> So folks, as I have posted many times here, this thread is more a slug fest of personal attacks than anything remotely attempting to post some truths.
> 
> I have to wonder, do the folks in Portland think that their meat just magically appears under cellophane in their local Safeway, or Trader Joe's?  Do you prefer that your beef is raised in a cage?  Now that's a good question with the PETA folks. Or are the ones against these folks actually vegans?
> 
> But what I would really like to do is implore you to look beyond what the .gov media is showing you.  There are many videos surfacing on YouTube lately showing many of the Harney County and Burns, Oregon town hall meetings that the .gov media has NOT published.  Yes, they are long and it will take quite an investment of your time to try to get some ACTUAL truth out of this situation, something that I doubt many of you will do, since you prefer the slop that the .gov media feeds you instead.
> 
> But if you are really interested in the truth here, I again implore you to take a look at them, here's a couple.  The first is from Jan 1, BEFORE the rally, the second is from a few weeks before.  The rest can be viewed on YouTube from the links that will show on the sidebar.  Look, Watch and learn for yourself, PLEASE? And again, I realize that they are very very long, but we all owe it to ourselves to take the time . . . .



Here you are, an outsider, telling lies about the whole situation. Many of us in Portland have roots in that area. We know the people, and their problems. We also know that it is our taxes that maintain their roads and schools, as well as other infrastructure. And we approve of that, because of what the area provides us. 

The reason that the BLM controls that land is what happened when it was open range. Big areas were overgrazed to the point of destruction. Logan Valley was a prime example. My grandfather and his brothers were ranchers in Easter Oregon. I have cousins that are still ranching north of Harney County. 

The armed takeover of the Game Refuge is completely wrong, has nothing at all to do with the Hammond's plight, and everything to do with the wingnut conspriracies. Time to end that occupation, and give these miscreants a long stay in the iron bar hotel.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So folks, as I have posted many times here, this thread is more a slug fest of personal attacks than anything remotely attempting to post some truths.
> 
> I have to wonder, do the folks in Portland think that their meat just magically appears under cellophane in their local Safeway, or Trader Joe's?  Do you prefer that your beef is raised in a cage?  Now that's a good question with the PETA folks. Or are the ones against these folks actually vegans?
> 
> But what I would really like to do is implore you to look beyond what the .gov media is showing you.  There are many videos surfacing on YouTube lately showing many of the Harney County and Burns, Oregon town hall meetings that the .gov media has NOT published.  Yes, they are long and it will take quite an investment of your time to try to get some ACTUAL truth out of this situation, something that I doubt many of you will do, since you prefer the slop that the .gov media feeds you instead.
> 
> But if you are really interested in the truth here, I again implore you to take a look at them, here's a couple.  The first is from Jan 1, BEFORE the rally, the second is from a few weeks before.  The rest can be viewed on YouTube from the links that will show on the sidebar.  Look, Watch and learn for yourself, PLEASE? And again, I realize that they are very very long, but we all owe it to ourselves to take the time . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you are, an outsider, telling lies about the whole situation. Many of us in Portland have roots in that area. We know the people, and their problems. We also know that it is our taxes that maintain their roads and schools, as well as other infrastructure. And we approve of that, because of what the area provides us.
> 
> The reason that the BLM controls that land is what happened when it was open range. Big areas were overgrazed to the point of destruction. Logan Valley was a prime example. My grandfather and his brothers were ranchers in Easter Oregon. I have cousins that are still ranching north of Harney County.
> 
> The armed takeover of the Game Refuge is completely wrong, has nothing at all to do with the Hammond's plight, and everything to do with the wingnut conspriracies. Time to end that occupation, and give these miscreants a long stay in the iron bar hotel.
Click to expand...

 
^^^OR is a commie outsider. He doesn't have roots there, and he doesn't speak for any of the people from there. He's a liar.


----------



## Old Rocks

teddyearp said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
Click to expand...

These locos took over a Federal Installation with guns. They have stated that they will kill anyone that tries to oust them. And they took women and children in with them. Believing, correctly, that the rest of us care more for their children than they do. They are the ultimate cowards using those women and children for shields.


----------



## koshergrl

Portland know the area and know Burns problem...bwahahahahahaha...that's rich.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These locos took over a Federal Installation with guns. They have stated that they will kill anyone that tries to oust them. And they took women and children in with them. Believing, correctly, that the rest of us care more for their children than they do. They are the ultimate cowards using those women and children for shields.
Click to expand...

 
Yawn.

But...they aren't as big a coward as you, commie. Stop lying.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Portland know the area and know Burns problem...bwahahahahahaha...that's rich.


----------



## OldLady

Grampa Murked U said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...... abandoned building in the middle of nowhere?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I see you're relying on make believe characters to express what you aren't capable of expressing yourself.
> Cartoons next up?
Click to expand...

Aw c'mon, Grampa.  We can all use a laugh.  Thanks Tyrone.


----------



## teddyearp

Camp said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> youtube.com/watch?v=BpMF_xbYG6Y
> 
> It is an accepted Bundy tactic.
Click to expand...

Thinking about it and actually doing it are two different things


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey by the way vacant, abandon are either the definition of occupied? Libturds?
> 
> 
> 
> It is a visited center...closed for the holidays I believe.  Would a school closed the holidays be called abandoned?  Vacant?
Click to expand...

if it isn't occupied, of course.  What is your issue with it anyway, they didn't have a conflict with anyone, and are using a visitor center?   I don't get your problem with them. Are you jealous or something that you didn't think of it first?  You are showing little to no logic.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Old Rocks said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These locos took over a Federal Installation with guns. They have stated that they will kill anyone that tries to oust them. And they took women and children in with them. Believing, correctly, that the rest of us care more for their children than they do. They are the ultimate cowards using those women and children for shields.
Click to expand...



I think Teddy's little cowboy had is too small for his yuuuge head, therefore cutting off the blood circulation.

Q: What kind of morons take their women and children to a standoff?

A: These dullards who are looking for 15 minutes of fame, by taking over a Turd Sanctuary, with the goal getting free money by way of donations. They are low-life moochers.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to know why the electricity is still on for these freeloading Yeehawdists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this proves exactly how much you are doing your own research on this situation. Nope.  Just keep on lapping up the dog food that you are being fed and keep your head in the sand.  Don't forget to stay up on facebook and the latest american idol either.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that's pretty much what the YeeHawdists are spending their time on all day....posting on facebook, instead of working for a living, they're begging for snacks.
Click to expand...

they most likely have hired help to help them make money.  They are the profit makers in the area for the most part.


----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> youtube.com/watch?v=BpMF_xbYG6Y
> 
> It is an accepted Bundy tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thinking about it and actually doing it are two different things
Click to expand...

But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These locos took over a Federal Installation with guns. They have stated that they will kill anyone that tries to oust them. And they took women and children in with them. Believing, correctly, that the rest of us care more for their children than they do. They are the ultimate cowards using those women and children for shields.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think Teddy's little cowboy had is too small for his yuuuge head, therefore cutting off the blood circulation.
> 
> Q: What kind of morons take their women and children to a standoff?
> 
> A: These dullards who are looking for 15 minutes of fame, by taking over a Turd Sanctuary, with the goal getting free money by way of donations. They are low-life moochers.
Click to expand...

what standoff?

Do you libturds just make shit up everyday for fun?  I see you hate logic.


----------



## Uncensored2008

koshergrl said:


> It would help. At the very least, they would make sure the fodder was kept down, reducing the intensity and destruction of wildfires.



I don't know. Jerry Brown has vowed to drive the farmers out of California. Oregon is almost as far left as California. I'm not sure the state would be any more in favor of affordable food than Obama is. The goal is to make food too costly for people to buy directly, ensuring that the masses are dependant on the rulers in Washington to get a meal.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> youtube.com/watch?v=BpMF_xbYG6Y
> 
> It is an accepted Bundy tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thinking about it and actually doing it are two different things
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
Click to expand...

If true, they brought children to a bird refuge gift shop. And the kids come and go, along with the "occupiers" and the townspeople.

No matter how badly you want them and their kids dead, it isn't going to happen.

BTW, the school sent a sixth grade reporter to interview Bundy for the school paper, too. Do you want to shoot up the school as well? You might get to kill kids there for real, if you do.


----------



## Dhara

This is hilarious.  Listen to it:


----------



## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> Here you are, an outsider, telling lies about the whole situation. Many of us in Portland have roots in that area. We know the people, and their problems. We also know that it is our taxes that maintain their roads and schools, as well as other infrastructure. And we approve of that, because of what the area provides us.
> 
> The reason that the BLM controls that land is what happened when it was open range. Big areas were overgrazed to the point of destruction. Logan Valley was a prime example. My grandfather and his brothers were ranchers in Easter Oregon. I have cousins that are still ranching north of Harney County.
> 
> The armed takeover of the Game Refuge is completely wrong, has nothing at all to do with the Hammond's plight, and everything to do with the wingnut conspriracies. Time to end that occupation, and give these miscreants a long stay in the iron bar hotel.



Open grazing keeps beef prices low. One of the major goals of you of the left is to make food impossible for the proles, so that they only way to eat is from the scraps given by our federal overlords. 

Closing off grazing rights is intended to sharply increase meat prices, which is what it has done since Obama took office.

This is just more of the democrats war on food.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Has the unoccupied building been beheaded by the terrorists or are they still holding it hostage? Do you suppose they're keeping it fed? I can't believe Obama hasn't sent in a rescue team of Seals.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> youtube.com/watch?v=BpMF_xbYG6Y
> 
> It is an accepted Bundy tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thinking about it and actually doing it are two different things
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They brought children to a bird refuge gift shop. And the kids come and go, along with the "occupiers" and the townspeople.
> 
> No matter how badly you want them and their kids dead, it isn't going to happen.
Click to expand...

You prove my point about twisting and distorting. Those idiots brought their kids to a potential firefight. That is a plain fact.


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you are, an outsider, telling lies about the whole situation. Many of us in Portland have roots in that area. We know the people, and their problems. We also know that it is our taxes that maintain their roads and schools, as well as other infrastructure. And we approve of that, because of what the area provides us.
> 
> The reason that the BLM controls that land is what happened when it was open range. Big areas were overgrazed to the point of destruction. Logan Valley was a prime example. My grandfather and his brothers were ranchers in Easter Oregon. I have cousins that are still ranching north of Harney County.
> 
> The armed takeover of the Game Refuge is completely wrong, has nothing at all to do with the Hammond's plight, and everything to do with the wingnut conspriracies. Time to end that occupation, and give these miscreants a long stay in the iron bar hotel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Open grazing keeps beef prices low. One of the major goals of you of the left is to make food impossible for the proles, so that they only way to eat is from the scraps given by our federal overlords.
> 
> Closing off grazing rights is intended to sharply increase meat prices, which is what it has done since Obama took office.
> 
> This is just more of the democrats war on food.
Click to expand...

 It's also a tactic used to force self sufficient people who are armed and can subsist without outside assistance, into the cities.


----------



## Dhara

Willing to kill or be killed.  Epitaph on the militiaman tombstone.


----------



## koshergrl

Dhara said:


> Willing to kill or be killed.  Epitaph on the militiaman tombstone.


 Lolol.


----------



## Dhara

Died eating a snack.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.



What Gunfight?

What are you Communists planning?


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> youtube.com/watch?v=BpMF_xbYG6Y
> 
> It is an accepted Bundy tactic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thinking about it and actually doing it are two different things
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They brought children to a bird refuge gift shop. And the kids come and go, along with the "occupiers" and the townspeople.
> 
> No matter how badly you want them and their kids dead, it isn't going to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You prove my point about twisting and distorting. Those idiots brought their kids to a potential firefight. That is a plain fact.
Click to expand...

they did?  Where is the fire fight?


----------



## Uncensored2008

koshergrl said:


> [ It's also a tactic used to force self sufficient people who are armed and can subsist without outside assistance, into the cities.



The goal is to create dependency.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These locos took over a Federal Installation with guns. They have stated that they will kill anyone that tries to oust them. And they took women and children in with them. Believing, correctly, that the rest of us care more for their children than they do. They are the ultimate cowards using those women and children for shields.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think Teddy's little cowboy had is too small for his yuuuge head, therefore cutting off the blood circulation.
> 
> Q: What kind of morons take their women and children to a standoff?
> 
> A: These dullards who are looking for 15 minutes of fame, by taking over a Turd Sanctuary, with the goal getting free money by way of donations. They are low-life moochers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what standoff?
> 
> Do you libturds just make shit up everyday for fun?  I see you hate logic.
Click to expand...



The one they're begging for.


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Gunfight?
> 
> What are you Communists planning?
Click to expand...

What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest? Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Dhara said:


> This is hilarious.  Listen to it:





And the music from Ken Burns "Civil War" is indeed perfect.  LOL!


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These locos took over a Federal Installation with guns. They have stated that they will kill anyone that tries to oust them. And they took women and children in with them. Believing, correctly, that the rest of us care more for their children than they do. They are the ultimate cowards using those women and children for shields.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think Teddy's little cowboy had is too small for his yuuuge head, therefore cutting off the blood circulation.
> 
> Q: What kind of morons take their women and children to a standoff?
> 
> A: These dullards who are looking for 15 minutes of fame, by taking over a Turd Sanctuary, with the goal getting free money by way of donations. They are low-life moochers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what standoff?
> 
> Do you libturds just make shit up everyday for fun?  I see you hate logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The one they're begging for.
Click to expand...

where? Can't you answer or are you just being a lying libturd?


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ It's also a tactic used to force self sufficient people who are armed and can subsist without outside assistance, into the cities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The goal is to create dependency.
Click to expand...

 Yup.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Gunfight?
> 
> What are you Communists planning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest? Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
Click to expand...

where? you still haven't stated where?  They never once got in anyone's face, never once made a demand or threat on anyone or anything.  So what is it they did other than have a gun and dress funny?


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> youtube.com/watch?v=BpMF_xbYG6Y
> 
> It is an accepted Bundy tactic.
> 
> 
> 
> Thinking about it and actually doing it are two different things
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They brought children to a bird refuge gift shop. And the kids come and go, along with the "occupiers" and the townspeople.
> 
> No matter how badly you want them and their kids dead, it isn't going to happen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You prove my point about twisting and distorting. Those idiots brought their kids to a potential firefight. That is a plain fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they did?  Where is the fire fight?
Click to expand...

You left out the word in my quote "potential".  Completely distorts the meaning of my post.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Gunfight?
> 
> What are you Communists planning?
Click to expand...



I wonder why this moron made a "goodbye" video?  lol  Doesn't sound like the poor thing is planning on returning home.


----------



## koshergrl

Here's the reality:

Oregon standoff: Unsolicited help flocks to Burns to 'assist' law enforcement

The unsolicited help is from outsiders who want to *help* end the *standoff*. Lunatics from other places that want the National Guard, the Army, anybody, really, to kill the occupiers and whoever else gets in the way.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Carla_Danger said:


> The one they're begging for.



I don't agree with Bundy's approach, but his goal is to highlight the Obama regimes' war on ranchers, which is part of the greater war on food by the democrats.

No one but the MSNBC hosts want a gunfight.


----------



## koshergrl

The locals continue to want the feds out of there:

"..on Friday evening, an unelected "committee of safety" of locals inspired by Revolutionary War rhetoric took on the militants' cause and began organizing around the idea of wresting control of public land from the federal government."

Oregon standoff: Unsolicited help flocks to Burns to 'assist' law enforcement

I wonder how many are oldfag's imaginary relatives?


----------



## Carla_Danger

Camp said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> youtube.com/watch?v=BpMF_xbYG6Y
> 
> It is an accepted Bundy tactic.
Click to expand...




Yep, that's the loser/moochers hiding behind women and children.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Uncensored2008 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one they're begging for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with Bundy's approach, but his goal is to highlight the Obama regimes' war on ranchers, which is part of the greater war on food by the democrats.
> 
> No one but the MSNBC hosts want a gunfight.
Click to expand...



Right, because MSNBC is there with their big guns. LOL!  You are a moron.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear they're hiding behind their women and children now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These locos took over a Federal Installation with guns. They have stated that they will kill anyone that tries to oust them. And they took women and children in with them. Believing, correctly, that the rest of us care more for their children than they do. They are the ultimate cowards using those women and children for shields.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think Teddy's little cowboy had is too small for his yuuuge head, therefore cutting off the blood circulation.
> 
> Q: What kind of morons take their women and children to a standoff?
> 
> A: These dullards who are looking for 15 minutes of fame, by taking over a Turd Sanctuary, with the goal getting free money by way of donations. They are low-life moochers.
Click to expand...

another libturd with nothing.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?



What "terrorists?"

You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.



> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.



They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.


----------



## jc456

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
Click to expand...

if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
Click to expand...



They are not a militia, they are a group of armed thugs, and low-life losers.


----------



## Camp

c"


Uncensored2008 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one they're begging for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with Bundy's approach, but his goal is to highlight the Obama regimes' war on ranchers, which is part of the greater war on food by the democrats.
> 
> No one but the MSNBC hosts want a gunfight.
Click to expand...

The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Carla_Danger said:


> Right, because MSNBC is there with their big guns. LOL!  You are a moron.



Drinking heavy already, huh Cruella?

MSNBC is the propaganda wing of the DNC, the little Goebbels of the party. They are demagogues, they would never actually pick up a gun. Their weapon is smears, lies, half-truths, and innuendo.


----------



## koshergrl

jc456 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
Click to expand...

 Their plan is to stay there until Harney County is able to stand on their own. Which they are taking steps to do:

"...on Friday evening, an unelected "committee of safety" of locals inspired by Revolutionary War rhetoric took on the militants' cause and began organizing around the idea of wresting control of public land from the federal government."

Oregon standoff: Unsolicited help flocks to Burns to 'assist' law enforcement

Of course, the 100 residents who gathered and stated their desire to have the feds ousted are given next to no air time.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> c"
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one they're begging for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with Bundy's approach, but his goal is to highlight the Obama regimes' war on ranchers, which is part of the greater war on food by the democrats.
> 
> No one but the MSNBC hosts want a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.
Click to expand...

 Er..the grass is high quality, dumbass.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> c"
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one they're begging for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with Bundy's approach, but his goal is to highlight the Obama regimes' war on ranchers, which is part of the greater war on food by the democrats.
> 
> No one but the MSNBC hosts want a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Er..the grass is high quality, dumbass.
Click to expand...



Eh?

The occupiers are glib in calling themselves "patriots." Real patriots would honor and test the systems of government for reform, avoid local intrusion – and, well, never celebrate themselves as patriots.

In Harney County, may the anarchy die of its own cluelessness: Editorial


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
Click to expand...

The locals are not backing them and the feds are not at a crossroads. Both the locals and the feds are keeping the crisis is perspective and steering away from violence or an attitude that immediate action must be taken. It is the middle of winter and the Wildlife Refuge complex is closed for the winter. There is no rush to remove the trespassers and a strategy of waiting out the situation is preferred by both locals and feds.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> c"
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one they're begging for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with Bundy's approach, but his goal is to highlight the Obama regimes' war on ranchers, which is part of the greater war on food by the democrats.
> 
> No one but the MSNBC hosts want a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Er..the grass is high quality, dumbass.
Click to expand...

That is not how grazing land is judged, dumbass. It does not matter how high the nutritional quality grass is if it takes large amounts of acreage to feed one cow. Plus, I did not specify a particular region or area. I spoke of disputed lands in general.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The locals are not backing them and the feds are not at a crossroads. Both the locals and the feds are keeping the crisis is perspective and steering away from violence or an attitude that immediate action must be taken. It is the middle of winter and the Wildlife Refuge complex is closed for the winter. There is no rush to remove the trespassers and a strategy of waiting out the situation is preferred by both locals and feds.
Click to expand...

there you go, nothing.


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> c"
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one they're begging for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with Bundy's approach, but his goal is to highlight the Obama regimes' war on ranchers, which is part of the greater war on food by the democrats.
> 
> No one but the MSNBC hosts want a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Er..the grass is high quality, dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Eh?
> 
> The occupiers are glib in calling themselves "patriots." Real patriots would honor and test the systems of government for reform, avoid local intrusion – and, well, never celebrate themselves as patriots.
> 
> In Harney County, may the anarchy die of its own cluelessness: Editorial
Click to expand...

 
Please. As if an anti-American pig such as yourself would know.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> c"
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one they're begging for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with Bundy's approach, but his goal is to highlight the Obama regimes' war on ranchers, which is part of the greater war on food by the democrats.
> 
> No one but the MSNBC hosts want a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Er..the grass is high quality, dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Eh?
> 
> The occupiers are glib in calling themselves "patriots." Real patriots would honor and test the systems of government for reform, avoid local intrusion – and, well, never celebrate themselves as patriots.
> 
> In Harney County, may the anarchy die of its own cluelessness: Editorial
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please. As if an anti-American pig such as yourself would know.
Click to expand...



They've made themselves look like the idiots they are. Their only supporters are the fringe of right wing loons, like yourself.

At least they're good for cheap entertainment.


----------



## Old Rocks

OK. Let's follow what would happen if the loonies get their demands. So, the Federal government cedes the lands to the states. Then the state government has a bad budget year and decides that the lands are nothing but a financial drain, and sells them off. Are the ranchers going to buy them? No way, they simply do not have the money. So who does? The Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Now the land that the ranchers previously grazed their cattle on is in private ownership, and they have to pay over 10 times as much per head to graze their cows on that land. That is the present ratio of private grazing fees compared to federal grazing fees. 

Now everyone has the right to hunt on the government land open to hunting, provided they have the tags. Once that land is in private ownership, you will see most of it as fee hunting only. And the best of it will be reserved for 'hunting clubs' whose membership is from foreign nations. Same for fishing. We already have hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon.

This is what the Bundy's and people like Kosher are working for.


----------



## RollingThunder

This pretty much says it all....






*George Washington would not side with the West's sagebrush rebels*


----------



## Old Rocks

The ranchers, most of them, do not have enough land to run a successful ranching operation without the cheap federal grazing. When the land passed to private ownership, their financial base would be gone, and the people that bought up those lands would then be able to pick up these ranches for pennies on the dollar. Oh yes, Kosher is really looking out for the interests of the Eastern Oregon Ranchers. I bet that she, like the Bundy's, is a parasite living off the rest of us that pay taxes. Remember, Ammon Bundy has this very large outstanding loan from the federal government, that he has no intention of paying back. And who is financing these fellows? Even those of us making good wages don't take this kind of time off without financial repercussions. And there is a bunch of them out there. Where are they getting their money?


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their plan is to stay there until Harney County is able to stand on their own. Which they are taking steps to do:
> 
> "...on Friday evening, an unelected "committee of safety" of locals inspired by Revolutionary War rhetoric took on the militants' cause and began organizing around the idea of wresting control of public land from the federal government."
> 
> Oregon standoff: Unsolicited help flocks to Burns to 'assist' law enforcement
> 
> Of course, the 100 residents who gathered and stated their desire to have the feds ousted are given next to no air time.
Click to expand...

That is too bad. Every one of them should be given 30 minutes to state their beliefs and why they are supporting the Bundy's. Not only that, it should be put on Youtube. I am absolutely sure they would make a lasting impression. Kind of like the fake Marine. LOL


----------



## Seawytch

jc456 said:


> Can't you answer or are you just being a lying libturd?



That's rich coming from the guy who won't answer my question despite me answering yours TWICE now.

What do the ranchers stand to gain if the land is turned over to the state?


----------



## Seawytch

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Their plan is to stay there until Harney County is able to stand on their own. Which they are taking steps to do:
> 
> "...on Friday evening, an unelected "committee of safety" of locals inspired by Revolutionary War rhetoric took on the militants' cause and began organizing around the idea of wresting control of public land from the federal government."
> 
> Oregon standoff: Unsolicited help flocks to Burns to 'assist' law enforcement
> 
> Of course, the 100 residents who gathered and stated their desire to have the feds ousted are given next to no air time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too bad. Every one of them should be given 30 minutes to state their beliefs and why they are supporting the Bundy's. Not only that, it should be put on Youtube. I am absolutely sure they would make a lasting impression. Kind of like the fake Marine. LOL
Click to expand...



Turn it into a reality show...the revenue generated can go to National Parks.


----------



## Camp

Over 80% of Oregon BLM lands are dedicated to cattle grazing


jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The locals are not backing them and the feds are not at a crossroads. Both the locals and the feds are keeping the crisis is perspective and steering away from violence or an attitude that immediate action must be taken. It is the middle of winter and the Wildlife Refuge complex is closed for the winter. There is no rush to remove the trespassers and a strategy of waiting out the situation is preferred by both locals and feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> there you go, nothing.
Click to expand...

This thread is full of links to support my thread. They include statements from the local mayor, sheriff, Governor of Oregon, a town hall meeting with a show of hands vote asking the militia to leave, and numerous local news editorials and opinion articles.
It is you side that lacks backup for your claims. No matter how often those links are posted you just ignore them.
Here is one from Oregon State University confirming that over 80% of BLM lands in Oregon are dedicated and leased for cattle grazing, leaving only 20% to be used for other purposes. Yet the ranchers want more. They have 80% but want more, and now they want other lands like wildlife refuges.

people.oregonstate.edu/~muirp/wpubland.htm


----------



## Uncensored2008

Carla_Danger said:


> They are not a militia, they are a group of armed thugs, and low-life losers.



What is a "militia" Comrade? 

You have no idea, do you?


----------



## Camp

Seawytch said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you answer or are you just being a lying libturd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's rich coming from the guy who won't answer my question despite me answering yours TWICE now.
> 
> What do the ranchers stand to gain if the land is turned over to the state?
Click to expand...

I just posted an interesting piece from the Oregon State University. A huge amount of the leases is given out to the smallest percentage of the state's largest ranches. Who would have thought that the biggest most profitable ranches get the most land and the smallest least profitable ones get the least?


----------



## Old Rocks

Uncensored2008 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are not a militia, they are a group of armed thugs, and low-life losers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is a "militia" Comrade?
> 
> You have no idea, do you?
Click to expand...

I would have to say that she has a very good idea of what they are, and gave a very definition of what they presently are comprised of.


----------



## jc456

Seawytch said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you answer or are you just being a lying libturd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's rich coming from the guy who won't answer my question despite me answering yours TWICE now.
> 
> What do the ranchers stand to gain if the land is turned over to the state?
Click to expand...

they get rid of the feds.

seems simple to me, and yet you can't figure that out.

what does the fed get out of keeping ownership of the land over the state?


----------



## Old Rocks

Camp said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you answer or are you just being a lying libturd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's rich coming from the guy who won't answer my question despite me answering yours TWICE now.
> 
> What do the ranchers stand to gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just posted an interesting piece from the Oregon State University. A huge amount of the leases is given out to the smallest percentage of the state's largest ranches. Who would have thought that the biggest most profitable ranches get the most land and the smallest least profitable ones get the least?
Click to expand...

That is the present system. However, even the big ranchers are dependent on the largess of the Federal Government, and would go under if they were forced to pay the present private grazing fees. And if the present government land were converted to private holdings, these ranches would soon be part of the holdings.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.



Oregon is "arid desert land?" 

Who knew? 

Ethanol has indeed harmed food prices, though corn as feed of cattle lost support decades ago, Grazing rights has a huge impact on beef prices, when cattle cannot graze, the expense rises, which is passed to the consumer.

I know, the democratic - socialist response is "let them eat tofu."


----------



## Old Rocks

jc456 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you answer or are you just being a lying libturd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's rich coming from the guy who won't answer my question despite me answering yours TWICE now.
> 
> What do the ranchers stand to gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they get rid of the feds.
> 
> seems simple to me, and yet you can't figure that out.
> 
> what does the fed get out of keeping ownership of the land over the state?
Click to expand...

We, the people, still have right to access that land. For hunting, fishing, and other recreation. If loonies like you had your way, that would be gone.


----------



## Old Rocks

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon is "arid desert land?"
> 
> Who knew?
> 
> Ethanol has indeed harmed food prices, though corn as feed of cattle lost support decades ago, Grazing rights has a huge impact on beef prices, when cattle cannot graze, the expense rises, which is passed to the consumer.
> 
> I know, the democratic - socialist response is "let them eat tofu."
Click to expand...

Well, for damned certain, you do not know. A great deal of Eastern Oregon is, indeed, high desert. One cow per 100 acres is the norm. That is about 6 cows per square mile. Yes, in a very big area, they do raise a lot of cows. But not that many compared to many other states.


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you answer or are you just being a lying libturd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's rich coming from the guy who won't answer my question despite me answering yours TWICE now.
> 
> What do the ranchers stand to gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they get rid of the feds.
> 
> seems simple to me, and yet you can't figure that out.
> 
> what does the fed get out of keeping ownership of the land over the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We, the people, still have right to access that land. For hunting, fishing, and other recreation. If loonies like you had your way, that would be gone.
Click to expand...

because that is what is happening on that land today?  Are you sure?

BTW, we the people stole the land from the Indians.  hmmmmmm


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> The ranchers, most of them, do not have enough land to run a successful ranching operation without the cheap federal grazing. When the land passed to private ownership, their financial base would be gone, and the people that bought up those lands would then be able to pick up these ranches for pennies on the dollar. Oh yes, Kosher is really looking out for the interests of the Eastern Oregon Ranchers. I bet that she, like the Bundy's, is a parasite living off the rest of us that pay taxes. Remember, Ammon Bundy has this very large outstanding loan from the federal government, that he has no intention of paying back. And who is financing these fellows? Even those of us making good wages don't take this kind of time off without financial repercussions. And there is a bunch of them out there. Where are they getting their money?


but they aren't asking to have it privatized are they?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> Over 80% of Oregon BLM lands are dedicated to cattle grazing



At least they were when Obama entered office. The Junta is dedicated to reducing this number. That is the complaint of the ranchers.



> This thread is full of links to support my thread. They include statements from the local mayor, sheriff, Governor of Oregon, a town hall meeting with a show of hands vote asking the militia to leave, and numerous local news editorials and opinion articles.
> It is you side that lacks backup for your claims. No matter how often those links are posted you just ignore them.
> Here is one from Oregon State University confirming that over 80% of BLM lands in Oregon are dedicated and leased for cattle grazing, leaving only 20% to be used for other purposes. Yet the ranchers want more. They have 80% but want more, and now they want other lands like wildlife refuges.
> 
> people.oregonstate.edu/~muirp/wpubland.htm



The 80% is declining, and rapidly. The Ranchers simply don't want the grazing land to decline.


----------



## Old Rocks

No, dumb shit. They are not. But that is what would happen if they had their way. Like you, they are extremely stupid people that are incapable of seeing the logical outcome of their actions.


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon is "arid desert land?"
> 
> Who knew?
> 
> Ethanol has indeed harmed food prices, though corn as feed of cattle lost support decades ago, Grazing rights has a huge impact on beef prices, when cattle cannot graze, the expense rises, which is passed to the consumer.
> 
> I know, the democratic - socialist response is "let them eat tofu."
Click to expand...

You have not been there, I have.


----------



## Old Rocks

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over 80% of Oregon BLM lands are dedicated to cattle grazing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least they were when Obama entered office. The Junta is dedicated to reducing this number. That is the complaint of the ranchers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is full of links to support my thread. They include statements from the local mayor, sheriff, Governor of Oregon, a town hall meeting with a show of hands vote asking the militia to leave, and numerous local news editorials and opinion articles.
> It is you side that lacks backup for your claims. No matter how often those links are posted you just ignore them.
> Here is one from Oregon State University confirming that over 80% of BLM lands in Oregon are dedicated and leased for cattle grazing, leaving only 20% to be used for other purposes. Yet the ranchers want more. They have 80% but want more, and now they want other lands like wildlife refuges.
> 
> people.oregonstate.edu/~muirp/wpubland.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The 80% is declining, and rapidly. The Ranchers simply don't want the grazing land to decline.
Click to expand...

If the present drought ends, then there will be a greater number of permits issued. If, after this year, the drought continues, then the amount of permits will be reduced. The problem is that many are willing to destroy long term profitability for short term profits.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Uncensored2008 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are not a militia, they are a group of armed thugs, and low-life losers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is a "militia" Comrade?
> 
> You have no idea, do you?
Click to expand...



They are none of the below... They are a group of armed thugs.  I think we should call them the Marlboro Men. And while you're at it, please send your donations of 12 cartons of Marlboro menthol 100's to

Malheur National Wildlife Refuge
36391 Sodhouse Ln, Princeton, OR 97721

But don't use that affordable/reliable Gubmint postal service, ya hear!!!


mi·li·tia
məˈliSHə/
_noun_

a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities, typically in opposition to a regular army.
all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service.


----------



## Old Rocks

Camp said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon is "arid desert land?"
> 
> Who knew?
> 
> Ethanol has indeed harmed food prices, though corn as feed of cattle lost support decades ago, Grazing rights has a huge impact on beef prices, when cattle cannot graze, the expense rises, which is passed to the consumer.
> 
> I know, the democratic - socialist response is "let them eat tofu."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have not been there, I have.
Click to expand...

From Kosher's posts, she has not been in the high desert, either. In fact, I don't know of any of the Bundy supports here that have been more than a few feet off the main roads in that area.


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon is "arid desert land?"
> 
> Who knew?
> 
> Ethanol has indeed harmed food prices, though corn as feed of cattle lost support decades ago, Grazing rights has a huge impact on beef prices, when cattle cannot graze, the expense rises, which is passed to the consumer.
> 
> I know, the democratic - socialist response is "let them eat tofu."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have not been there, I have.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From Kosher's posts, she has not been in the high desert, either. In fact, I don't know of any of the Bundy supports here that have been more than a few feet off the main roads in that area.
Click to expand...

so have threatened no one correct?


----------



## Uncensored2008

jc456 said:


> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.



What Bundy et al are doing is illegal. How we ended up in a position that beef production is dependant on federal land is another story; but sadly we are. Obama has goals that are sharply in conflict with the well being of the nation, and denying grazing rights is one of the many ways that he is waging his war on the middle class. The real problem is that the ranchers have little legal recourse.


----------



## jc456

Uncensored2008 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Bundy et al are doing is illegal. How we ended up in a position that beef production is dependant on federal land is another story; but sadly we are. Obama has goals that are sharply in conflict with the well being of the nation, and denying grazing rights is one of the many ways that he is waging his war on the middle class. The real problem is that the ranchers have little legal recourse.
Click to expand...

oh well, it is what they are willing to do for their businesses and fellow citizens.  Is it legal to rearrest the Hammonds or whatever their name was?


----------



## Old Rocks

jc456 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Bundy et al are doing is illegal. How we ended up in a position that beef production is dependant on federal land is another story; but sadly we are. Obama has goals that are sharply in conflict with the well being of the nation, and denying grazing rights is one of the many ways that he is waging his war on the middle class. The real problem is that the ranchers have little legal recourse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh well, it is what they are willing to do for their businesses and fellow citizens.  Is it legal to rearrest the Hammonds or whatever their name was?
Click to expand...

Yes, unjust, but perfectly legal, under anti-terrorist laws that people like you unwisely put into place.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> Well, for damned certain, you do not know. A great deal of Eastern Oregon is, indeed, high desert. One cow per 100 acres is the norm. That is about 6 cows per square mile. Yes, in a very big area, they do raise a lot of cows. But not that many compared to many other states.




Yawn;

{While the high desert is somewhat dry, it is only arid relative to Western Oregon. The region averages 15 inches (380 mm) of annual rainfall; the Alvord Desert, however, gets only 7 inches (180 mm) of rain each year. Contrary to its name, most of the high desert is not dry enough to truly qualify as desert, and biologically, most of the region is classified as scrubland or steppe.}

High Desert (Oregon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once you post, then I know it's easy to refute, since virtually everything you post is a lie.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> You have not been there, I have.



Haven't been where? Oregon? 

I live in California, it is the state right above us. I've been to Oregon hundreds of times.

Nevada and Arizona too.....


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> OK. Let's follow what would happen if the loonies get their demands. So, the Federal government cedes the lands to the states. Then the state government has a bad budget year and decides that the lands are nothing but a financial drain, and sells them off. Are the ranchers going to buy them? No way, they simply do not have the money. So who does? The Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Now the land that the ranchers previously grazed their cattle on is in private ownership, and they have to pay over 10 times as much per head to graze their cows on that land. That is the present ratio of private grazing fees compared to federal grazing fees.
> 
> Now everyone has the right to hunt on the government land open to hunting, provided they have the tags. Once that land is in private ownership, you will see most of it as fee hunting only. And the best of it will be reserved for 'hunting clubs' whose membership is from foreign nations. Same for fishing. We already have hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon.
> 
> This is what the Bundy's and people like Kosher are working for.


 No, it's not. OR is lying again.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Old Rocks said:


> If the present drought ends, then there will be a greater number of permits issued. If, after this year, the drought continues, then the amount of permits will be reduced. The problem is that many are willing to destroy long term profitability for short term profits.



The present drought is a matter of politics, as all droughts are.

California is on a 7 year cycle, We have 3 years of drought out of every 7, followed by flooding. Oregon is not nearly as impacted by either condition, though still part of the Pacific weather pattern.

Obama denies grazing permits as part of his war on the middle class.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> Over 80% of Oregon BLM lands are dedicated to cattle grazing
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The locals are not backing them and the feds are not at a crossroads. Both the locals and the feds are keeping the crisis is perspective and steering away from violence or an attitude that immediate action must be taken. It is the middle of winter and the Wildlife Refuge complex is closed for the winter. There is no rush to remove the trespassers and a strategy of waiting out the situation is preferred by both locals and feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> there you go, nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is full of links to support my thread. They include statements from the local mayor, sheriff, Governor of Oregon, a town hall meeting with a show of hands vote asking the militia to leave, and numerous local news editorials and opinion articles.
> It is you side that lacks backup for your claims. No matter how often those links are posted you just ignore them.
> Here is one from Oregon State University confirming that over 80% of BLM lands in Oregon are dedicated and leased for cattle grazing, leaving only 20% to be used for other purposes. Yet the ranchers want more. They have 80% but want more, and now they want other lands like wildlife refuges.
> 
> people.oregonstate.edu/~muirp/wpubland.htm
Click to expand...

 
The show of hands wasn't for asking them to leave. The sheriff asked how many were from Harney county, and while the hands were still up, he asked how many would like them to leave, and the Oregonian reported that as the same. In reality, a guy immediately took the mic and stated what had just happened and said that he absolutely had no problem with them being there.

Which is the stance of most of the locals.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> The ranchers, most of them, do not have enough land to run a successful ranching operation without the cheap federal grazing. When the land passed to private ownership, their financial base would be gone, and the people that bought up those lands would then be able to pick up these ranches for pennies on the dollar. Oh yes, Kosher is really looking out for the interests of the Eastern Oregon Ranchers. I bet that she, like the Bundy's, is a parasite living off the rest of us that pay taxes. Remember, Ammon Bundy has this very large outstanding loan from the federal government, that he has no intention of paying back. And who is financing these fellows? Even those of us making good wages don't take this kind of time off without financial repercussions. And there is a bunch of them out there. Where are they getting their money?


 What happened is the feds have stolen their water, then used it to flood their land, which they then declare as WETLANDS, and then take that too. They close roads that make it impossible for the ranchers to access the lands they own, and when the ranchers can't get their cattle to it, they also take those lands, based on the fact that they are no longer using them.

You see how this works? Of course you do. You're a liar, and a statist puke.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> c"
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one they're begging for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't agree with Bundy's approach, but his goal is to highlight the Obama regimes' war on ranchers, which is part of the greater war on food by the democrats.
> 
> No one but the MSNBC hosts want a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The greatest factor in food cost increases began long ago with ethanol subsidies that gave feed corn a higher value as a fuel supplement. Cattle grazed on public lands, especially the ones being disputed on the poorest quality grasslands on arid desert land have little impact on the overall food prices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Er..the grass is high quality, dumbass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is not how grazing land is judged, dumbass. It does not matter how high the nutritional quality grass is if it takes large amounts of acreage to feed one cow. Plus, I did not specify a particular region or area. I spoke of disputed lands in general.
Click to expand...

 
Oh. Yeah. Right.

Dumbass.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Carla_Danger said:


> They are none of the below... They are a group of armed thugs.  I think we should call them the Marlboro Men. And while you're at it, please send your donations of 12 cartons of Marlboro menthol 100's to
> 
> Malheur National Wildlife Refuge
> 36391 Sodhouse Ln, Princeton, OR 97721
> 
> But don't use that affordable/reliable Gubmint postal service, ya hear!!!
> 
> 
> mi·li·tia
> məˈliSHə/
> _noun_
> 
> a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
> a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities, typically in opposition to a regular army.
> all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service.



{
(a)
The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1)
the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2)
the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
}

*10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes*

They are indeed a militia.

Now why has your little tin god not ordered a drone strike on them, Cruella? Everyone hates them and wants them dead, according to you democratic - socialists....


----------



## Uncensored2008

jc456 said:


> [
> oh well, it is what they are willing to do for their businesses and fellow citizens.  Is it legal to rearrest the Hammonds or whatever their name was?



No, that is double-jeopardy and violates the Constitution. But there are two issues, the BLM land and grazing, and the terrorist kidnapping of the Hammonds. 

Bundy is taking a bad approach in regard to the BLM, breaking the law destroys his position.

For the Hammonds, 10,000 armed men should storm the 9th circus clowns and demand the immediate release of the hostages these terrorists are holding.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Cruella lies, get's caught, and marks the post where she is busted as "funny."

Cruella DeVille is truly deranged...


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over 80% of Oregon BLM lands are dedicated to cattle grazing
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
> 
> 
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The locals are not backing them and the feds are not at a crossroads. Both the locals and the feds are keeping the crisis is perspective and steering away from violence or an attitude that immediate action must be taken. It is the middle of winter and the Wildlife Refuge complex is closed for the winter. There is no rush to remove the trespassers and a strategy of waiting out the situation is preferred by both locals and feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> there you go, nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is full of links to support my thread. They include statements from the local mayor, sheriff, Governor of Oregon, a town hall meeting with a show of hands vote asking the militia to leave, and numerous local news editorials and opinion articles.
> It is you side that lacks backup for your claims. No matter how often those links are posted you just ignore them.
> Here is one from Oregon State University confirming that over 80% of BLM lands in Oregon are dedicated and leased for cattle grazing, leaving only 20% to be used for other purposes. Yet the ranchers want more. They have 80% but want more, and now they want other lands like wildlife refuges.
> 
> people.oregonstate.edu/~muirp/wpubland.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The show of hands wasn't for asking them to leave. The sheriff asked how many were from Harney county, and while the hands were still up, he asked how many would like them to leave, and the Oregonian reported that as the same. In reality, a guy immediately took the mic and stated what had just happened and said that he absolutely had no problem with them being there.
> 
> Which is the stance of most of the locals.
Click to expand...

He objected to them taking over the wildlife refuge. So do the vast majority of the locals. If you had a strong case you would not have to lie so consistently.  The focus is not on the cause or complaints so much as it is on the method of protest. People can support the cause or be willing to debate it and be against the method of protest. Civil disobedience is breaking a law and willingly and peacefully being arrested. Bringing weapons to a protest isn't civil disobedience. It is criminal at best and terrorism at worst. It should never be accepted as legal or appropriate in American culture.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over 80% of Oregon BLM lands are dedicated to cattle grazing
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> 
> 
> The locals are not backing them and the feds are not at a crossroads. Both the locals and the feds are keeping the crisis is perspective and steering away from violence or an attitude that immediate action must be taken. It is the middle of winter and the Wildlife Refuge complex is closed for the winter. There is no rush to remove the trespassers and a strategy of waiting out the situation is preferred by both locals and feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> there you go, nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is full of links to support my thread. They include statements from the local mayor, sheriff, Governor of Oregon, a town hall meeting with a show of hands vote asking the militia to leave, and numerous local news editorials and opinion articles.
> It is you side that lacks backup for your claims. No matter how often those links are posted you just ignore them.
> Here is one from Oregon State University confirming that over 80% of BLM lands in Oregon are dedicated and leased for cattle grazing, leaving only 20% to be used for other purposes. Yet the ranchers want more. They have 80% but want more, and now they want other lands like wildlife refuges.
> 
> people.oregonstate.edu/~muirp/wpubland.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The show of hands wasn't for asking them to leave. The sheriff asked how many were from Harney county, and while the hands were still up, he asked how many would like them to leave, and the Oregonian reported that as the same. In reality, a guy immediately took the mic and stated what had just happened and said that he absolutely had no problem with them being there.
> 
> Which is the stance of most of the locals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He objected to them taking over the wildlife refuge. So do the vast majority of the locals. If you had a strong case you would not have to lie so consistently.  The focus is not on the cause or complaints so much as it is on the method of protest. People can support the cause or be willing to debate it and be against the method of protest. Civil disobedience is breaking a law and willingly and peacefully being arrested. Bringing weapons to a protest isn't civil disobedience. It is criminal at best and terrorism at worst. It should never be accepted as legal or appropriate in American culture.
Click to expand...

 
Lol. I haven't lied about anything. You, on the other hand, have been outed over...and over...and over...and over.....

 
You hear those cheers?


----------



## jc456

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over 80% of Oregon BLM lands are dedicated to cattle grazing
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The locals are not backing them and the feds are not at a crossroads. Both the locals and the feds are keeping the crisis is perspective and steering away from violence or an attitude that immediate action must be taken. It is the middle of winter and the Wildlife Refuge complex is closed for the winter. There is no rush to remove the trespassers and a strategy of waiting out the situation is preferred by both locals and feds.
> 
> 
> 
> there you go, nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is full of links to support my thread. They include statements from the local mayor, sheriff, Governor of Oregon, a town hall meeting with a show of hands vote asking the militia to leave, and numerous local news editorials and opinion articles.
> It is you side that lacks backup for your claims. No matter how often those links are posted you just ignore them.
> Here is one from Oregon State University confirming that over 80% of BLM lands in Oregon are dedicated and leased for cattle grazing, leaving only 20% to be used for other purposes. Yet the ranchers want more. They have 80% but want more, and now they want other lands like wildlife refuges.
> 
> people.oregonstate.edu/~muirp/wpubland.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The show of hands wasn't for asking them to leave. The sheriff asked how many were from Harney county, and while the hands were still up, he asked how many would like them to leave, and the Oregonian reported that as the same. In reality, a guy immediately took the mic and stated what had just happened and said that he absolutely had no problem with them being there.
> 
> Which is the stance of most of the locals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He objected to them taking over the wildlife refuge. So do the vast majority of the locals. If you had a strong case you would not have to lie so consistently.  The focus is not on the cause or complaints so much as it is on the method of protest. People can support the cause or be willing to debate it and be against the method of protest. Civil disobedience is breaking a law and willingly and peacefully being arrested. Bringing weapons to a protest isn't civil disobedience. It is criminal at best and terrorism at worst. It should never be accepted as legal or appropriate in American culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol. I haven't lied about anything. You, on the other hand, have been outed over...and over...and over...and over.....
> 
> 
> You hear those cheers?
Click to expand...

shit, look at all the cameras


----------



## koshergrl

That isn't even the one I was looking for. It's a different guy standing up and supporting the refuge takeover.


----------



## jc456

Uncensored2008 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> oh well, it is what they are willing to do for their businesses and fellow citizens.  Is it legal to rearrest the Hammonds or whatever their name was?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that is double-jeopardy and violates the Constitution. But there are two issues, the BLM land and grazing, and the terrorist kidnapping of the Hammonds.
> 
> Bundy is taking a bad approach in regard to the BLM, breaking the law destroys his position.
> 
> For the Hammonds, 10,000 armed men should storm the 9th circus clowns and demand the immediate release of the hostages these terrorists are holding.
Click to expand...

they said they didn't want the help and why Bundy backed off..


----------



## koshergrl

jc456 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over 80% of Oregon BLM lands are dedicated to cattle grazing
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> there you go, nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is full of links to support my thread. They include statements from the local mayor, sheriff, Governor of Oregon, a town hall meeting with a show of hands vote asking the militia to leave, and numerous local news editorials and opinion articles.
> It is you side that lacks backup for your claims. No matter how often those links are posted you just ignore them.
> Here is one from Oregon State University confirming that over 80% of BLM lands in Oregon are dedicated and leased for cattle grazing, leaving only 20% to be used for other purposes. Yet the ranchers want more. They have 80% but want more, and now they want other lands like wildlife refuges.
> 
> people.oregonstate.edu/~muirp/wpubland.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The show of hands wasn't for asking them to leave. The sheriff asked how many were from Harney county, and while the hands were still up, he asked how many would like them to leave, and the Oregonian reported that as the same. In reality, a guy immediately took the mic and stated what had just happened and said that he absolutely had no problem with them being there.
> 
> Which is the stance of most of the locals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He objected to them taking over the wildlife refuge. So do the vast majority of the locals. If you had a strong case you would not have to lie so consistently.  The focus is not on the cause or complaints so much as it is on the method of protest. People can support the cause or be willing to debate it and be against the method of protest. Civil disobedience is breaking a law and willingly and peacefully being arrested. Bringing weapons to a protest isn't civil disobedience. It is criminal at best and terrorism at worst. It should never be accepted as legal or appropriate in American culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol. I haven't lied about anything. You, on the other hand, have been outed over...and over...and over...and over.....
> 
> 
> You hear those cheers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> shit, look at all the cameras
Click to expand...

 
And not a word in the Oregonian. I wonder if that's one of oldfag's relatives hahahahaha


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over 80% of Oregon BLM lands are dedicated to cattle grazing
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> 
> 
> The locals are not backing them and the feds are not at a crossroads. Both the locals and the feds are keeping the crisis is perspective and steering away from violence or an attitude that immediate action must be taken. It is the middle of winter and the Wildlife Refuge complex is closed for the winter. There is no rush to remove the trespassers and a strategy of waiting out the situation is preferred by both locals and feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> there you go, nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is full of links to support my thread. They include statements from the local mayor, sheriff, Governor of Oregon, a town hall meeting with a show of hands vote asking the militia to leave, and numerous local news editorials and opinion articles.
> It is you side that lacks backup for your claims. No matter how often those links are posted you just ignore them.
> Here is one from Oregon State University confirming that over 80% of BLM lands in Oregon are dedicated and leased for cattle grazing, leaving only 20% to be used for other purposes. Yet the ranchers want more. They have 80% but want more, and now they want other lands like wildlife refuges.
> 
> people.oregonstate.edu/~muirp/wpubland.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The show of hands wasn't for asking them to leave. The sheriff asked how many were from Harney county, and while the hands were still up, he asked how many would like them to leave, and the Oregonian reported that as the same. In reality, a guy immediately took the mic and stated what had just happened and said that he absolutely had no problem with them being there.
> 
> Which is the stance of most of the locals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He objected to them taking over the wildlife refuge. So do the vast majority of the locals. If you had a strong case you would not have to lie so consistently.  The focus is not on the cause or complaints so much as it is on the method of protest. People can support the cause or be willing to debate it and be against the method of protest. Civil disobedience is breaking a law and willingly and peacefully being arrested. Bringing weapons to a protest isn't civil disobedience. It is criminal at best and terrorism at worst. It should never be accepted as legal or appropriate in American culture.
Click to expand...


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> He objected to them taking over the wildlife refuge. So do the vast majority of the locals. If you had a strong case you would not have to lie so consistently.  The focus is not on the cause or complaints so much as it is on the method of protest. People can support the cause or be willing to debate it and be against the method of protest. Civil disobedience is breaking a law and willingly and peacefully being arrested. Bringing weapons to a protest isn't civil disobedience. It is criminal at best and terrorism at worst. It should never be accepted as legal or appropriate in American culture.



How is it "terrorism?"

Fuckwad Obama claims that a Muzzie Beast slaughtering service men is "workplace violence," but you want to call a peaceful protest "terrorism"

You grasp why normal people think you Communists are fucked up in the brain?


----------



## jc456

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over 80% of Oregon BLM lands are dedicated to cattle grazing
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The locals are not backing them and the feds are not at a crossroads. Both the locals and the feds are keeping the crisis is perspective and steering away from violence or an attitude that immediate action must be taken. It is the middle of winter and the Wildlife Refuge complex is closed for the winter. There is no rush to remove the trespassers and a strategy of waiting out the situation is preferred by both locals and feds.
> 
> 
> 
> there you go, nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is full of links to support my thread. They include statements from the local mayor, sheriff, Governor of Oregon, a town hall meeting with a show of hands vote asking the militia to leave, and numerous local news editorials and opinion articles.
> It is you side that lacks backup for your claims. No matter how often those links are posted you just ignore them.
> Here is one from Oregon State University confirming that over 80% of BLM lands in Oregon are dedicated and leased for cattle grazing, leaving only 20% to be used for other purposes. Yet the ranchers want more. They have 80% but want more, and now they want other lands like wildlife refuges.
> 
> people.oregonstate.edu/~muirp/wpubland.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The show of hands wasn't for asking them to leave. The sheriff asked how many were from Harney county, and while the hands were still up, he asked how many would like them to leave, and the Oregonian reported that as the same. In reality, a guy immediately took the mic and stated what had just happened and said that he absolutely had no problem with them being there.
> 
> Which is the stance of most of the locals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He objected to them taking over the wildlife refuge. So do the vast majority of the locals. If you had a strong case you would not have to lie so consistently.  The focus is not on the cause or complaints so much as it is on the method of protest. People can support the cause or be willing to debate it and be against the method of protest. Civil disobedience is breaking a law and willingly and peacefully being arrested. Bringing weapons to a protest isn't civil disobedience. It is criminal at best and terrorism at worst. It should never be accepted as legal or appropriate in American culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

nice beard.


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> He objected to them taking over the wildlife refuge. So do the vast majority of the locals. If you had a strong case you would not have to lie so consistently.  The focus is not on the cause or complaints so much as it is on the method of protest. People can support the cause or be willing to debate it and be against the method of protest. Civil disobedience is breaking a law and willingly and peacefully being arrested. Bringing weapons to a protest isn't civil disobedience. It is criminal at best and terrorism at worst. It should never be accepted as legal or appropriate in American culture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How is it "terrorism?"
> 
> Fuckwad Obama claims that a Muzzie Beast slaughtering service men is "workplace violence," but you want to call a peaceful protest "terrorism"
> 
> You grasp why normal people think you Communists are fucked up in the brain?
Click to expand...

 Terrorism requires someone to be terrified. In this case, nobody's terrified, the locals are thankful and pleased that the feds are getting some push back, after being terrorized, robbed, and imprisoned without redress for the last century or so.


----------



## Seawytch

jc456 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you answer or are you just being a lying libturd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's rich coming from the guy who won't answer my question despite me answering yours TWICE now.
> 
> What do the ranchers stand to gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they get rid of the feds.
> 
> seems simple to me, and yet you can't figure that out.
> 
> what does the fed get out of keeping ownership of the land over the state?
Click to expand...


What is there to "get rid of" beyond really cheap grazing fees? Do you think the state will lease that same land for less than the Feds?


----------



## jc456

Seawytch said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you answer or are you just being a lying libturd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's rich coming from the guy who won't answer my question despite me answering yours TWICE now.
> 
> What do the ranchers stand to gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they get rid of the feds.
> 
> seems simple to me, and yet you can't figure that out.
> 
> what does the fed get out of keeping ownership of the land over the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is there to "get rid of" beyond really cheap grazing fees? Do you think the state will lease that same land for less than the Feds?
Click to expand...

it isn't what the folks want at all.  They want the state to own it since it is land in the state and used by the citizens of the state.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would help. At the very least, they would make sure the fodder was kept down, reducing the intensity and destruction of wildfires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. *Jerry Brown has vowed to drive the farmers out of California*. Oregon is almost as far left as California. I'm not sure the state would be any more in favor of affordable food than Obama is. The goal is to make food too costly for people to buy directly, ensuring that the masses are dependant on the rulers in Washington to get a meal.
Click to expand...

That's a cold hard lie.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> [ It's also a tactic used to force self sufficient people who are armed and can subsist without outside assistance, into the cities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The goal is to create dependency.
Click to expand...

They're already there since they can't seem to get by without cheap federal land for grazing.


----------



## bodecea

Carla_Danger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Gunfight?
> 
> What are you Communists planning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why this moron made a "goodbye" video?  lol  Doesn't sound like the poor thing is planning on returning home.
Click to expand...

His family's probably grateful.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would help. At the very least, they would make sure the fodder was kept down, reducing the intensity and destruction of wildfires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. *Jerry Brown has vowed to drive the farmers out of California*. Oregon is almost as far left as California. I'm not sure the state would be any more in favor of affordable food than Obama is. The goal is to make food too costly for people to buy directly, ensuring that the masses are dependant on the rulers in Washington to get a meal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a cold hard lie.
Click to expand...

well post something up that debunks it.  Your word doesn't count.


----------



## bodecea

Carla_Danger said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the terrorists planning when they brought guns to an alleged protest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "terrorists?"
> 
> You're deranged, filled with bloodlust and bile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bringing guns and dressing up as soldiers. calling yourselves a militia and threatening to fight, kill and die for their protest cause is what made these protesters terrorist and invited a gunfight.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They are a militia. I think their approach is wrong, but their position is right. Obama is waging war on the food supply, ranchers are caught in the cross-fire of the administration dedicated to making food too expensive for people to afford.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are not a militia, they are a group of armed thugs, and low-life losers.
Click to expand...

Squatters now.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would help. At the very least, they would make sure the fodder was kept down, reducing the intensity and destruction of wildfires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. *Jerry Brown has vowed to drive the farmers out of California*. Oregon is almost as far left as California. I'm not sure the state would be any more in favor of affordable food than Obama is. The goal is to make food too costly for people to buy directly, ensuring that the masses are dependant on the rulers in Washington to get a meal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a cold hard lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well post something up that debunks it.  Your word doesn't count.
Click to expand...

Where is Jerry Brown's vow to drive the farmers out of California?  Produce that vow.......


----------



## Carla_Danger

bodecea said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Gunfight?
> 
> What are you Communists planning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why this moron made a "goodbye" video?  lol  Doesn't sound like the poor thing is planning on returning home.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His family's probably grateful.
Click to expand...



They should pack up and leave an empty house to the idiot.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would help. At the very least, they would make sure the fodder was kept down, reducing the intensity and destruction of wildfires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. *Jerry Brown has vowed to drive the farmers out of California*. Oregon is almost as far left as California. I'm not sure the state would be any more in favor of affordable food than Obama is. The goal is to make food too costly for people to buy directly, ensuring that the masses are dependant on the rulers in Washington to get a meal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a cold hard lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well post something up that debunks it.  Your word doesn't count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is Jerry Brown's vow to drive the farmers out of California?  Produce that vow.......
Click to expand...

I called no one a liar.  See you called them a liar, prove the lie.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would help. At the very least, they would make sure the fodder was kept down, reducing the intensity and destruction of wildfires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. *Jerry Brown has vowed to drive the farmers out of California*. Oregon is almost as far left as California. I'm not sure the state would be any more in favor of affordable food than Obama is. The goal is to make food too costly for people to buy directly, ensuring that the masses are dependant on the rulers in Washington to get a meal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's a cold hard lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well post something up that debunks it.  Your word doesn't count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is Jerry Brown's vow to drive the farmers out of California?  Produce that vow.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I called no one a liar.  See you called them a liar, prove the lie.
Click to expand...

How does one prove a negative?  Answer that one.  Or better yet, join me in asking Uncensored to provide that vow that he claims Jerry Brown made.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Stay tuned for the next segment of things white dudes with guns and cowboy hats can get away with and still not face arrest.*


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Stay tuned for the next segment of things white dudes with guns and cowboy hats can get away with and still not face arrest.*


 
That's because they aren't killing each other. Unlike black dudes with guns in the cities.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> That's a cold hard lie.



Unh hunh...

{
Agriculture is the heart of California’s worsening water crisis, and the stakes extend far beyond the state’s borders. Not only is California the world’s eighth largest economy, it is an agricultural superpower. It produces roughly half of all the fruits, nuts, and vegetables consumed in the United States—and more than 90 percent of the almonds, tomatoes, strawberries, broccoli and other specialty crops—while exporting vast amounts to China and other overseas customers.

But agriculture consumes a staggering 80 percent of California’s developed water, even as it accounts for only 2 percent of the state’s gross domestic product. Most crops and livestock are produced in the Central Valley, which is, geologically speaking, a desert. The soil is very fertile but crops there can thrive only if massive amounts of irrigation water are applied.

Although no secret, agriculture’s 80 percent share of state water use is rarely mentioned in media discussions of California’s drought. Instead, news coverage concentrates on the drought’s implications for people in cities and suburbs, which is where most journalists and their audiences live. Thus recent headlines warned that state regulators have ordered restaurants to serve water only if customers explicitly request it and directed homeowners to water lawns no more than twice a week. The _San Jose Mercury News pointed_ out that these restrictions carry no enforcement mechanisms, but what makes them a sideshow is simple math: During a historic drought, surely the sector that’s responsible for 80 percent of water consumption—agriculture—should be the main focus of public attention and policy.}

How Growers Gamed California’s Drought

ROFL 

Fucking shortbus...


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> They're already there since they can't seem to get by without cheap federal land for grazing.



Dependency by the consumer, shortbus. You have the intellect of a rotting corpse.

Oh, and more on Brown's war on agriculture;

{
With Brown urging them on, Dickinson and others responded with bills regulating California’s groundwater, stoking opposition from agricultural groups and from both Republicans and moderate Democrats representing rural districts. Growers pushed successfully to give some agencies until 2022 to implement monitoring plans.

“We were unsuccessful in stopping it,” Merkley said. “I think we were successful in making it better.”

On Wednesday, Brown built off of the groundwater legislation with a more muscular effort to force water agencies to share groundwater data with the state.

Kurt Schwabe, an associate professor of environmental economics and policy at University of California, Riverside, said of Brown’s approach to agriculture, “To say that they’re getting a free ride here is just incorrect.”


Read more here: California agriculture, largely spared in new water restrictions, wields huge clout


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know. *Jerry Brown has vowed to drive the farmers out of California*. Oregon is almost as far left as California. I'm not sure the state would be any more in favor of affordable food than Obama is. The goal is to make food too costly for people to buy directly, ensuring that the masses are dependant on the rulers in Washington to get a meal.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a cold hard lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well post something up that debunks it.  Your word doesn't count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is Jerry Brown's vow to drive the farmers out of California?  Produce that vow.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I called no one a liar.  See you called them a liar, prove the lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does one prove a negative?  Answer that one.  Or better yet, join me in asking Uncensored to provide that vow that he claims Jerry Brown made.
Click to expand...

well instead of calling him a liar, ask him to prove it.  You merely called him a liar like you knew, so post up what you know as fact.

Which it looks like he just posted up.


----------



## Dhara

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here you go.
> 
> 
> Meyer told the Oregonian he went to the compound to get a friend, but the friend decided to stay. Meyer then tried to get women and children in the compound to leave, but was stopped by militia members.
> 
> Oregon militia members give Tucsonans a harsh welcome
> 
> 
> and...
> 
> BURNS -- Violence broke out at the Bundy compound Wednesday night between its militant occupants and members of an outside group whose leader says he wants to get women and children out of the compound.
> 
> At Bundy encampment, outsider says militants 'attacked' his group
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither of those articles prove your point.  Tell me exactly where they actually 'hid behind their women and children'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> These locos took over a Federal Installation with guns. They have stated that they will kill anyone that tries to oust them. And they took women and children in with them. Believing, correctly, that the rest of us care more for their children than they do. They are the ultimate cowards using those women and children for shields.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think Teddy's little cowboy had is too small for his yuuuge head, therefore cutting off the blood circulation.
> 
> Q: What kind of morons take their women and children to a standoff?
> 
> A: These dullards who are looking for 15 minutes of fame, by taking over a Turd Sanctuary, with the goal getting free money by way of donations. They are low-life moochers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what standoff?
> 
> Do you libturds just make shit up everyday for fun?  I see you hate logic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The one they're begging for.
Click to expand...

Not enough time playing paintball.


----------



## Dhara

Old Rocks said:


> OK. Let's follow what would happen if the loonies get their demands. So, the Federal government cedes the lands to the states. Then the state government has a bad budget year and decides that the lands are nothing but a financial drain, and sells them off. Are the ranchers going to buy them? No way, they simply do not have the money. So who does? The Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Now the land that the ranchers previously grazed their cattle on is in private ownership, and they have to pay over 10 times as much per head to graze their cows on that land. That is the present ratio of private grazing fees compared to federal grazing fees.
> 
> Now everyone has the right to hunt on the government land open to hunting, provided they have the tags. Once that land is in private ownership, you will see most of it as fee hunting only. And the best of it will be reserved for 'hunting clubs' whose membership is from foreign nations. Same for fishing. We already have hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon.
> 
> This is what the Bundy's and people like Kosher are working for.


No problem with FEDERAL ownership of lands as long as the ranchers get their cows fed.


----------



## koshergrl

Dhara said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Let's follow what would happen if the loonies get their demands. So, the Federal government cedes the lands to the states. Then the state government has a bad budget year and decides that the lands are nothing but a financial drain, and sells them off. Are the ranchers going to buy them? No way, they simply do not have the money. So who does? The Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Now the land that the ranchers previously grazed their cattle on is in private ownership, and they have to pay over 10 times as much per head to graze their cows on that land. That is the present ratio of private grazing fees compared to federal grazing fees.
> 
> Now everyone has the right to hunt on the government land open to hunting, provided they have the tags. Once that land is in private ownership, you will see most of it as fee hunting only. And the best of it will be reserved for 'hunting clubs' whose membership is from foreign nations. Same for fishing. We already have hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon.
> 
> This is what the Bundy's and people like Kosher are working for.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem with FEDERAL ownership of lands as long as the ranchers get their cows fed.
Click to expand...

 Feds can't own land, outside of DC and ports and forts.

Try again, loser.


----------



## Dhara

Can you imagine what would have happened if 150 armed Black Panthers or Muslim Americans took over federal property?


----------



## koshergrl

Dhara said:


> Can you imagine what would have happened if 150 armed Black Panthers or Muslim Americans took over federal property?


 Gosh it's not like we haven't heard that stupidity like 5000 times already. You social justice nitwits. If you want to argue that black people should be able to loot and kill each other, go to one of the threads where they're talking about that.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a cold hard lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unh hunh...
> 
> {
> Agriculture is the heart of California’s worsening water crisis, and the stakes extend far beyond the state’s borders. Not only is California the world’s eighth largest economy, it is an agricultural superpower. It produces roughly half of all the fruits, nuts, and vegetables consumed in the United States—and more than 90 percent of the almonds, tomatoes, strawberries, broccoli and other specialty crops—while exporting vast amounts to China and other overseas customers.
> 
> But agriculture consumes a staggering 80 percent of California’s developed water, even as it accounts for only 2 percent of the state’s gross domestic product. Most crops and livestock are produced in the Central Valley, which is, geologically speaking, a desert. The soil is very fertile but crops there can thrive only if massive amounts of irrigation water are applied.
> 
> Although no secret, agriculture’s 80 percent share of state water use is rarely mentioned in media discussions of California’s drought. Instead, news coverage concentrates on the drought’s implications for people in cities and suburbs, which is where most journalists and their audiences live. Thus recent headlines warned that state regulators have ordered restaurants to serve water only if customers explicitly request it and directed homeowners to water lawns no more than twice a week. The _San Jose Mercury News pointed_ out that these restrictions carry no enforcement mechanisms, but what makes them a sideshow is simple math: During a historic drought, surely the sector that’s responsible for 80 percent of water consumption—agriculture—should be the main focus of public attention and policy.}
> 
> How Growers Gamed California’s Drought
> 
> ROFL
> 
> Fucking shortbus...
Click to expand...

I don't see Jerry Brown's Vow in all of that.   Please post it posthaste.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a cold hard lie.
> 
> 
> 
> well post something up that debunks it.  Your word doesn't count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is Jerry Brown's vow to drive the farmers out of California?  Produce that vow.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I called no one a liar.  See you called them a liar, prove the lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does one prove a negative?  Answer that one.  Or better yet, join me in asking Uncensored to provide that vow that he claims Jerry Brown made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well instead of calling him a liar, ask him to prove it.  You merely called him a liar like you knew, so post up what you know as fact.
> 
> Which it looks like he just posted up.
Click to expand...

Because I know he can't prove it because I live in California and know it to be the lie that it is.   Ipso Facto.    Has he linked said vow yet?   No he has not.   Quelle surprise.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Dhara said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Let's follow what would happen if the loonies get their demands. So, the Federal government cedes the lands to the states. Then the state government has a bad budget year and decides that the lands are nothing but a financial drain, and sells them off. Are the ranchers going to buy them? No way, they simply do not have the money. So who does? The Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Now the land that the ranchers previously grazed their cattle on is in private ownership, and they have to pay over 10 times as much per head to graze their cows on that land. That is the present ratio of private grazing fees compared to federal grazing fees.
> 
> Now everyone has the right to hunt on the government land open to hunting, provided they have the tags. Once that land is in private ownership, you will see most of it as fee hunting only. And the best of it will be reserved for 'hunting clubs' whose membership is from foreign nations. Same for fishing. We already have hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon.
> 
> This is what the Bundy's and people like Kosher are working for.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem with FEDERAL ownership of lands as long as the ranchers get their cows fed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Feds can't own land, outside of DC and ports and forts.
> 
> Try again, loser.
Click to expand...

I guess we should give the Louisiana Purchase back then.....and Alaska back to the Russians....and all those National Parks and National Military Parks.


----------



## Dot Com

Those freeloading camera hogs still squatting on public property?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dhara said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Let's follow what would happen if the loonies get their demands. So, the Federal government cedes the lands to the states. Then the state government has a bad budget year and decides that the lands are nothing but a financial drain, and sells them off. Are the ranchers going to buy them? No way, they simply do not have the money. So who does? The Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Now the land that the ranchers previously grazed their cattle on is in private ownership, and they have to pay over 10 times as much per head to graze their cows on that land. That is the present ratio of private grazing fees compared to federal grazing fees.
> 
> Now everyone has the right to hunt on the government land open to hunting, provided they have the tags. Once that land is in private ownership, you will see most of it as fee hunting only. And the best of it will be reserved for 'hunting clubs' whose membership is from foreign nations. Same for fishing. We already have hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon.
> 
> This is what the Bundy's and people like Kosher are working for.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem with FEDERAL ownership of lands as long as the ranchers get their cows fed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Feds can't own land, outside of DC and ports and forts.
> 
> Try again, loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess we should give the Louisiana Purchase back then.....and Alaska back to the Russians....and all those National Parks and National Military Parks.
Click to expand...

If you mean give it to the states, I agree.


----------



## jc456

Dot Com said:


> Those freeloading camera hogs still squatting on public property?


need a tissue?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dhara said:


> Can you imagine what would have happened if 150 armed Black Panthers or Muslim Americans took over federal property?



Obama would praise their courage?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dhara said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Let's follow what would happen if the loonies get their demands. So, the Federal government cedes the lands to the states. Then the state government has a bad budget year and decides that the lands are nothing but a financial drain, and sells them off. Are the ranchers going to buy them? No way, they simply do not have the money. So who does? The Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Now the land that the ranchers previously grazed their cattle on is in private ownership, and they have to pay over 10 times as much per head to graze their cows on that land. That is the present ratio of private grazing fees compared to federal grazing fees.
> 
> Now everyone has the right to hunt on the government land open to hunting, provided they have the tags. Once that land is in private ownership, you will see most of it as fee hunting only. And the best of it will be reserved for 'hunting clubs' whose membership is from foreign nations. Same for fishing. We already have hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon.
> 
> This is what the Bundy's and people like Kosher are working for.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem with FEDERAL ownership of lands as long as the ranchers get their cows fed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Feds can't own land, outside of DC and ports and forts.
> 
> Try again, loser.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess we should give the Louisiana Purchase back then.....and Alaska back to the Russians....and all those National Parks and National Military Parks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you mean give it to the states, I agree.
Click to expand...

They weren't states during the Purchase...for many of them, quite a while before.   And what do you do about the land the federal government "gave" to the railroads to help fund their track laying.  Does that get taken back too?

Actually, I think it would be hysterical if they did give that land to each of the states and they charged the ranchers more than the feds did.  I'd be


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a cold hard lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unh hunh...
> 
> {
> Agriculture is the heart of California’s worsening water crisis, and the stakes extend far beyond the state’s borders. Not only is California the world’s eighth largest economy, it is an agricultural superpower. It produces roughly half of all the fruits, nuts, and vegetables consumed in the United States—and more than 90 percent of the almonds, tomatoes, strawberries, broccoli and other specialty crops—while exporting vast amounts to China and other overseas customers.
> 
> But agriculture consumes a staggering 80 percent of California’s developed water, even as it accounts for only 2 percent of the state’s gross domestic product. Most crops and livestock are produced in the Central Valley, which is, geologically speaking, a desert. The soil is very fertile but crops there can thrive only if massive amounts of irrigation water are applied.
> 
> Although no secret, agriculture’s 80 percent share of state water use is rarely mentioned in media discussions of California’s drought. Instead, news coverage concentrates on the drought’s implications for people in cities and suburbs, which is where most journalists and their audiences live. Thus recent headlines warned that state regulators have ordered restaurants to serve water only if customers explicitly request it and directed homeowners to water lawns no more than twice a week. The _San Jose Mercury News pointed_ out that these restrictions carry no enforcement mechanisms, but what makes them a sideshow is simple math: During a historic drought, surely the sector that’s responsible for 80 percent of water consumption—agriculture—should be the main focus of public attention and policy.}
> 
> How Growers Gamed California’s Drought
> 
> ROFL
> 
> Fucking shortbus...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see Jerry Brown's Vow in all of that.   Please post it posthaste.
Click to expand...


Stupid is as shortbus does.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dhara said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you imagine what would have happened if 150 armed Black Panthers or Muslim Americans took over federal property?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama would praise their courage?
Click to expand...

Got a link to that Jerry Brown vow yet?


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Because I know he can't prove it because I live in California and know it to be the lie that it is.   Ipso Facto.    Has he linked said vow yet?   No he has not.   Quelle surprise.





You may live in California, but you have the intellect of a rotting corpse and the wit of a golfball.

Brown and the dims are waging war on agriculture - already proven by me in this thread.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Got a link to that Jerry Brown vow yet?





What a fucking moron....


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because I know he can't prove it because I live in California and know it to be the lie that it is.   Ipso Facto.    Has he linked said vow yet?   No he has not.   Quelle surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may live in California, but you have the intellect of a rotting corpse and the wit of a golfball.
> 
> Brown and the dims are waging war on agriculture - already proven by me in this thread.
Click to expand...

Where is Brown's vow?   And you've proven nothing, least of all your claim that he made a vow.   Surely it is on paper, on tape, on the internet.  Where is that vow?


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Where is Brown's vow?   And you've proven nothing, least of all your claim that he made a vow.   Surely it is on paper, on tape, on the internet.  Where is that vow?



Fucking shortbus...


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link to that Jerry Brown vow yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking moron....
Click to expand...

You don't need to self-identify yourself.  It's become quite clear.  Just add "liar" and you've got yourself down to a T.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link to that Jerry Brown vow yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking moron....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't need to self-identify yourself.  It's become quite clear.  Just add "liar" and you've got yourself down to a T.
Click to expand...

And if bode says you're a liar...

Well then everybody, even people who don't know anything about you, can rest assured that you are not. Because bode's accuracy rating is in the negative percentages...the law of averages means that if bode makes a specific statement, even if it's about her most recent bowel movement, it is 100 percent likely to be a lie.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link to that Jerry Brown vow yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking moron....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't need to self-identify yourself.  It's become quite clear.  Just add "liar" and you've got yourself down to a T.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And if bode says you're a liar...
> 
> Well then everybody, even people who don't know anything about you, can rest assured that you are not. Because bode's accuracy rating is in the negative percentages...the law of averages means that if bode makes a specific statement, even if it's about her most recent bowel movement, it is 100 percent likely to be a lie.
Click to expand...

Maybe you can ask Uncensored to link that "vow" that Jerry Brown made.  He's having trouble coming up with it.

Oh...and nice "ignore".


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link to that Jerry Brown vow yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking moron....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't need to self-identify yourself.  It's become quite clear.  Just add "liar" and you've got yourself down to a T.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And if bode says you're a liar...
> 
> Well then everybody, even people who don't know anything about you, can rest assured that you are not. Because bode's accuracy rating is in the negative percentages...the law of averages means that if bode makes a specific statement, even if it's about her most recent bowel movement, it is 100 percent likely to be a lie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you can ask Uncensored to link that "vow" that Jerry Brown made.  He's having trouble coming up with it.
> 
> Oh...and nice "ignore".
Click to expand...

 I'm not interested, bode. I know if you say it's a lie, it must be true. I don't need any more of a test than that.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> You don't need to self-identify yourself.  It's become quite clear.  Just add "liar" and you've got yourself down to a T.



LOL; you have the intellect of a rotting corpse and the wit of a golfball.

IF you are so fucking stupid that you truly cannot grasp what I've posted, I strongly suggest you never venture outside unsupervised. 

Now run along and harvest some Almond Roca from the cat box....


----------



## Uncensored2008

koshergrl said:


> [
> 
> I'm not interested, bode. I know if you say it's a lie, it must be true. I don't need any more of a test than that.



Shortbus is an angry little troll. I demonstrated that Brown and the dims are waging war on agriculture. She wants to pout and complain that Brown didn't say the exact words in the exact order of my quip. That is because she is a witless fool who has no sense of hyperbole and humor.


----------



## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Got a link to that Jerry Brown vow yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a fucking moron....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't need to self-identify yourself.  It's become quite clear.  Just add "liar" and you've got yourself down to a T.
Click to expand...

he is a world-class lair yes.


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> I'm not interested, bode. I know if you say it's a lie, it must be true. I don't need any more of a test than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortbus is an angry little troll. I demonstrated that Brown and the dims are waging war on agriculture. She wants to pout and complain that Brown didn't say the exact words in the exact order of my quip. That is because she is a witless fool who has no sense of hyperbole and humor.
Click to expand...

Oh I know. She's been derailing threads for years with her ocd nonsense. She's the first person I ever put on ignore, because she'd follow me all over the freaking world saying the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, as if she was making a point. When the only point that she ever made was that she's a lunatic.


----------



## Uncensored2008

koshergrl said:


> Oh I know. She's been derailing threads for years with her ocd nonsense. She's the first person I ever put on ignore, because she'd follow me all over the freaking world saying the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, as if she was making a point. When the only point that she ever made was that she's a lunatic.



Yep, I put her on ignore for a couple of weeks for the same reason, then decided that it would be more fun to mock her and get her riled up.

She really is dumb as a doorknob. She actually thinks her idiocy is "winning."


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dot Com said:


> he is a world-class lair yes.



I'm a "lair," dog cum?

You will never phere me, I suppose?


----------



## RollingThunder

koshergrl said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> I'm not interested, bode. I know if you say it's a lie, it must be true. I don't need any more of a test than that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortbus is an angry little troll. I demonstrated that Brown and the dims are waging war on agriculture. She wants to pout and complain that Brown didn't say the exact words in the exact order of my quip. That is because she is a witless fool who has no sense of hyperbole and humor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh I know. She's been derailing threads for years with her ocd nonsense. She's the first person I ever put on ignore, because she'd follow me all over the freaking world saying the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, as if she was making a point. When the only point that she ever made was that she's a lunatic.
Click to expand...




Uncensored2008 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I know. She's been derailing threads for years with her ocd nonsense. She's the first person I ever put on ignore, because she'd follow me all over the freaking world saying the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, as if she was making a point. When the only point that she ever made was that she's a lunatic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I put her on ignore for a couple of weeks for the same reason, then decided that it would be more fun to mock her and get her riled up.
> 
> She really is dumb as a doorknob. She actually thinks her idiocy is "winning."
Click to expand...


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.......too funny!

Two ignorant, clueless rightwingnut retards having a circle-jerk trying to put down  someone who is very obviously smarter and better informed than both of these bozos put together. The braindead bugger who started the off-topic bullshit about Gov. Brown can't back up anything he claimed with any evidence because he doesn't have any...just fraudulent rightwingnut myths. These nujobs are so gullible that they will fall for for any fraudulent bullshit their puppetmasters choose to feed to them.

They should just go join the other anti-government YeeHawdists like the good little dupes of the Koch brothers and the corporations that they are in reality.


----------



## teddyearp

Camp said:


> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields.



Again, prove it.  When did they actually use women and children as shields.  Show me now in this event where they are using women and children as shields. Just having them present does NOT prove that they are being used as shields.

It is amazing how those who are blindingly supporting the .gov side are letting their truth be twisted and distorted.


----------



## teddyearp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Gunfight?
> 
> What are you Communists planning?
Click to expand...


I am starting to wonder if some of these folks sat back and applauded how the .gov handled Ruby ridge and Waco.  Thrilled over the spilling of blood.  Cheered the .gov on.  Saddened that the .gov did not escalate the same way at the Bundy ranch, and other not so publicized events since.  I really think that some of you folks like to see the .gov go and kill our own.


----------



## RollingThunder

teddyearp said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, prove it.  When did they actually use women and children as shields.  Show me now in this event where they are using women and children as shields. Just having them present does NOT prove that they are being used as shields.
> 
> It is amazing how those who are blindingly supporting the .gov side are letting their truth be twisted and distorted.
Click to expand...


You clueless fool!

Here are the facts that you choose to remain willfully blind to....In a very good sumary of the entire situation, and the background of the conflict, and some of the various reactions to this armed occupation.

*Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge*

Here's a few choice excerpts...

*On January 2, 2016, armed[8] members of rump militias occupied the headquarters building at the United States Fish and Wildlife Service's Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in rural southeastern Oregon in protest of the pending imprisonment of ranchers Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven Hammond. The two were convicted on charges of arson in 2012 for unlawfully setting fire to federal land under a domestic anti-terrorism law after setting brush fires to clear grazing land without the required permit.[9]Ammon Bundy, the leader of the group now calling themselves Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, said he began leading the occupation after receiving a divine message from God ordering him to do so.[10][11]

Although their sentences and imprisonment were a stated cause of the dispute, the Hammonds have repeatedly rejected the intervention of militias. Dwight Hammond's wife stated, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."

Some of the militia members stated that they were ready to "kill and be killed" in the standoff.[13] The takeover sparked a debate in the U.S. on the meaning of the word "terrorist" in the context of domestic terrorism in the country, and furthermore on how the media and law enforcement treat situations involving people of different ethnicities or religions.[14][15][16]

Dwight Hammond, a cattle rancher in Harney County, owns 12,000 acres (4,900 ha) of land, much of which abuts public land. In 1994, Hammond and his son Steve obstructed the construction of a fence to delineate the boundary between the two parcels of property, prompting their arrest by federal agents. According to federal officials, construction of the fence was needed to stop the Hammond cattle from moving along a cattle trail that intersected public land after the Hammonds had repeatedly violated the terms of their permit, which limited when they could move their cows across refuge property.[25]Officials also reported Hammond had made threats against them in 1986 and 1988, including telling one public lands manager that he was going to "tear off his head and shit down his neck". They also contended Steve Hammond had called them "assholes".[26]

In 1999, Steve Hammond started a fire with the intent of burning off juniper trees and sagebrush, but the fire escaped onto BLM land. The agency reminded Hammond of the required burn permit and that if the fires continued, there would be legal consequences.[27] Both Dwight and Steve Hammond would later on set two additional fires that would lead to arson convictions.[28]

Hammond arson case

In 2012, a federal district court jury found Dwight and Steve Hammond guilty of arson, for fires they had started on the federal land adjacent to their property in 2001 and 2006.[29]

The 2001 Hardie-Hammond Fire began according to Probation Officer Robb, when hunters in the area witnessed the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer.[30] Less than two hours later, a fire erupted and forced the hunters to leave the area.[31] Later, Steve's nephew Dusty Hammond testified that his uncle told him to start lighting matches and "light the whole countryside on fire." Dusty also testified that he was "almost burned up in the fire" and had to flee for his life.[27][32] The Hammonds have falsely claimed they started the fire to stop invasive plants from growing onto their grazing fields.[33]

The 2006 Krumbo Butte Fire started out as a wildfire, but several illegal backburns were set by the Hammonds with the intent to protect their winter feed. The backfires were set under the cover of night without warning the firefighting camp that was known to be on the slopes above.[31][34] According to the indictment, the fires threatened to trap four BLM firefighters, one of whom later confronted Dwight Hammond at the fire scene after having moved his crews to avoid the threat.[31][32] Two days later, Steve Hammond threatened to frame a BLM employee with arson if he didn't stop the investigation.[33]

Following their conviction, federal prosecutors requested a five-year sentence for each of the Hammonds as provided for under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 (AEDPA).[34] The AEDPA provides that arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence.[35][36] U.S. District Judge Michael Robert Hogan determined sentences of that length "would shock the conscience" and would violate the constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. Hogan instead sentenced Dwight Hammond to three months' imprisonment and Steve Hammond to a year and a day's imprisonment, which both men served.[37] In what was described by media as a "rare" action, U.S. Attorney Amanda Marshall successfully appealed the sentence to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which upheld the mandatory-minimum law, writing that "given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense." The court vacated the original sentence and remanded for resentencing. The Hammonds filed petitions for certiorari with the Supreme Court, which the court rejected in March 2015.[35] In October 2015, Chief Judge Ann Aiken re-sentenced the pair to five years in prison (with credit for time served), ordering that they return to prison on January 4, 2016.[35][37] Both of the Hammonds reported to prison in California on January 4 in accordance with the law.[38]

In a separate 2014 civil judgment, the Hammonds were ordered to pay $400,000 in restitution to the U.S. government for the related arson fires. The pair paid half the amount immediately and the remaining $200,000 in December 2015.[34]
***
By late 2015, the Hammond case had attracted the attention of members of the family of Cliven Bundy, including sons Ammon and Ryan. The Bundys publicized the situation via social media, drawing interest from militia groups outside Oregon who sought to publicly endorse the Hammonds to draw attention to unrelated issues.[29][40] The Hammonds rejected the offers of assistance with Hammond attorney W. Alan Schroeder writing that "neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family."[3]When later asked about the occupation, Susan Hammond, the wife of Dwight Hammond, was dismissive and said, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."[41]

Harney County sheriff David Ward agreed to meet with the militia members who requested the sheriff's office protect the Hammonds from being taken into custody by federal authorities. Though Ward said he sympathized with the Hammonds' plight, he declined the militias' request. Ward said that he subsequently received death threats by email.[29]

Reactions

Anti-government activists

Cliven Bundy, the father of Ammon and Ryan Bundy, said he was not involved in organizing the takeover of the MNWR facilities and said it was "not exactly what I thought should happen".[40]

Asked about the incident, Mike Vanderboegh, a founder of the 3 Percenters militia, described the occupiers as "a collection of fruits and nuts", described John Ritzheimer as a "fool", and said Ammon Bundy had "a John Brown complex".[90]

The group Oath Keepers (of which Jon Ritzheimer was formerly a member) in a statement published on its website prior to the seizure of the MNWR facilities, said "we cannot force ourselves or our protection on people who do not want it. Dwight and Steven Hammond have made it clear, through their attorney, that they just want to turn themselves in and serve out their sentence. And that clear statement of their intent should be the end of the discussion on this."[91]

Tribal government

The governing council of the Burns Paiute Tribe, an Indian nation whose borders straddled Harney County, declared the occupiers were endangering the tribe's history by their presence and called on them to leave. Tribal chair Charlotte Rodrique went on to explain that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service was the protector of traditional Burns Paiute religious and archaeological sites in the area and that the displacement of federal authorities put such locations at risk.[96]

State, and local government

State Representative Cliff Bentz, who represents the region in the Oregon House of Representatives, said that the outside groups do not represents Burns or Harney County, saying, "They're trying to use the misfortune of the Hammonds to further the interests of the Bundys."[97]

In a January 6 press release, the Western State Sheriffs Association (WSSA), an organization representing 800 sheriffs in the American West, said its mission was to "promote the office of Sheriff and to assist our member Sheriffs on issues of mutual concern" and that it had offered Harney County Sheriff David Ward to organize out-of-state resources to send to Oregon if requested. The WSSA statement went on to note that it did not "support efforts of any individual or groups who utilize intimidation, threats or fear in order to further an agenda."[99]

Organizations

The Oregon Cattleman's Association, while maintaining it still supported the Hammonds, released a statement that declared it did "not support illegal activity taken against the government. This includes militia takeover of government property, such as the Malheur Wildlife Refuge."[100]

On January 4, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a statement condemning the militia actions and stating, "While the disagreement occurring in Oregon about the use of federal lands is not a Church matter, Church leaders strongly condemn the armed seizure of the facility and are deeply troubled by the reports that those who have seized the facility suggest that they are doing so based on scriptural principles. This armed occupation can in no way be justified on a scriptural basis."[57][101] The church also released an excerpt from a 1992 speech by Dallin H. Oaks, a senior Mormon religious leader, criticizing the "excessive zeal" of "those patriots who are participating in or provisioning private armies and making private preparations for armed conflict".[57]

The Audubon Society of Portland, in a written statement, said that the "occupation of Malheur by armed, out of state militia groups puts one of America's most important wildlife refuges at risk. It violates the most basic principles of the public trust doctrine and holds hostage public lands and public resources to serve the very narrow political agenda of the occupiers."[102]*


----------



## Seawytch

jc456 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you answer or are you just being a lying libturd?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's rich coming from the guy who won't answer my question despite me answering yours TWICE now.
> 
> What do the ranchers stand to gain if the land is turned over to the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they get rid of the feds.
> 
> seems simple to me, and yet you can't figure that out.
> 
> what does the fed get out of keeping ownership of the land over the state?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is there to "get rid of" beyond really cheap grazing fees? Do you think the state will lease that same land for less than the Feds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it isn't what the folks want at all.  They want the state to own it since it is land in the state and used by the citizens of the state.
Click to expand...


You STILL haven't answered the question. What do the ranchers stand to gain if the land is managed by the state instead of the Feds? Will they have cheaper grazing fees? Do they think the state will sell them the land? Will it be less expensive for them, having to purchase the land and pay taxes on it? What guarantee is there that the state would choose to keep allowing the ranchers to graze on the land? 

What part of the land is not being used by the citizens and for what purpose? A wildlife preserve is for the citizens.


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> OK. Let's follow what would happen if the loonies get their demands. So, the Federal government cedes the lands to the states. Then the state government has a bad budget year and decides that the lands are nothing but a financial drain, and sells them off. Are the ranchers going to buy them? No way, they simply do not have the money. So who does? The Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Now the land that the ranchers previously grazed their cattle on is in private ownership, and they have to pay over 10 times as much per head to graze their cows on that land. That is the present ratio of private grazing fees compared to federal grazing fees.
> 
> Now everyone has the right to hunt on the government land open to hunting, provided they have the tags. Once that land is in private ownership, you will see most of it as fee hunting only. And the best of it will be reserved for 'hunting clubs' whose membership is from foreign nations. Same for fishing. We already have hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon.
> 
> This is what the Bundy's and people like Kosher are working for.



This post actually has a tiny bit to discus without a ton of personal attacking.  I do not really think it would be wise either to cede the land back to the states, but the aggressive and progressive closure of more and more of our public lands is what has really brought us here.

Curious about your claim, these "hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon", is it owned by Saudis, Chinese and Japanese for private hunting clubs?


----------



## koshergrl

RollingThunder said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, prove it.  When did they actually use women and children as shields.  Show me now in this event where they are using women and children as shields. Just having them present does NOT prove that they are being used as shields.
> 
> It is amazing how those who are blindingly supporting the .gov side are letting their truth be twisted and distorted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You clueless fool!
> 
> Here are the facts that you choose to remain willfully blind to....In a very good sumary of the entire situation, and the background of the conflict, and some of the various reactions to this armed occupation.
> 
> *Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge*
> 
> Here's a few choice excerpts...
> 
> *On January 2, 2016, armed[8] members of rump militias occupied the headquarters building at the United States Fish and Wildlife Service's Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in rural southeastern Oregon in protest of the pending imprisonment of ranchers Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven Hammond. The two were convicted on charges of arson in 2012 for unlawfully setting fire to federal land under a domestic anti-terrorism law after setting brush fires to clear grazing land without the required permit.[9]Ammon Bundy, the leader of the group now calling themselves Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, said he began leading the occupation after receiving a divine message from God ordering him to do so.[10][11]
> 
> Although their sentences and imprisonment were a stated cause of the dispute, the Hammonds have repeatedly rejected the intervention of militias. Dwight Hammond's wife stated, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."
> 
> Some of the militia members stated that they were ready to "kill and be killed" in the standoff.[13] The takeover sparked a debate in the U.S. on the meaning of the word "terrorist" in the context of domestic terrorism in the country, and furthermore on how the media and law enforcement treat situations involving people of different ethnicities or religions.[14][15][16]
> 
> Dwight Hammond, a cattle rancher in Harney County, owns 12,000 acres (4,900 ha) of land, much of which abuts public land. In 1994, Hammond and his son Steve obstructed the construction of a fence to delineate the boundary between the two parcels of property, prompting their arrest by federal agents. According to federal officials, construction of the fence was needed to stop the Hammond cattle from moving along a cattle trail that intersected public land after the Hammonds had repeatedly violated the terms of their permit, which limited when they could move their cows across refuge property.[25]Officials also reported Hammond had made threats against them in 1986 and 1988, including telling one public lands manager that he was going to "tear off his head and shit down his neck". They also contended Steve Hammond had called them "assholes".[26]
> 
> In 1999, Steve Hammond started a fire with the intent of burning off juniper trees and sagebrush, but the fire escaped onto BLM land. The agency reminded Hammond of the required burn permit and that if the fires continued, there would be legal consequences.[27] Both Dwight and Steve Hammond would later on set two additional fires that would lead to arson convictions.[28]
> 
> Hammond arson case
> 
> In 2012, a federal district court jury found Dwight and Steve Hammond guilty of arson, for fires they had started on the federal land adjacent to their property in 2001 and 2006.[29]
> 
> The 2001 Hardie-Hammond Fire began according to Probation Officer Robb, when hunters in the area witnessed the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer.[30] Less than two hours later, a fire erupted and forced the hunters to leave the area.[31] Later, Steve's nephew Dusty Hammond testified that his uncle told him to start lighting matches and "light the whole countryside on fire." Dusty also testified that he was "almost burned up in the fire" and had to flee for his life.[27][32] The Hammonds have falsely claimed they started the fire to stop invasive plants from growing onto their grazing fields.[33]
> 
> The 2006 Krumbo Butte Fire started out as a wildfire, but several illegal backburns were set by the Hammonds with the intent to protect their winter feed. The backfires were set under the cover of night without warning the firefighting camp that was known to be on the slopes above.[31][34] According to the indictment, the fires threatened to trap four BLM firefighters, one of whom later confronted Dwight Hammond at the fire scene after having moved his crews to avoid the threat.[31][32] Two days later, Steve Hammond threatened to frame a BLM employee with arson if he didn't stop the investigation.[33]
> 
> Following their conviction, federal prosecutors requested a five-year sentence for each of the Hammonds as provided for under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 (AEDPA).[34] The AEDPA provides that arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence.[35][36] U.S. District Judge Michael Robert Hogan determined sentences of that length "would shock the conscience" and would violate the constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. Hogan instead sentenced Dwight Hammond to three months' imprisonment and Steve Hammond to a year and a day's imprisonment, which both men served.[37] In what was described by media as a "rare" action, U.S. Attorney Amanda Marshall successfully appealed the sentence to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which upheld the mandatory-minimum law, writing that "given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense." The court vacated the original sentence and remanded for resentencing. The Hammonds filed petitions for certiorari with the Supreme Court, which the court rejected in March 2015.[35] In October 2015, Chief Judge Ann Aiken re-sentenced the pair to five years in prison (with credit for time served), ordering that they return to prison on January 4, 2016.[35][37] Both of the Hammonds reported to prison in California on January 4 in accordance with the law.[38]
> 
> In a separate 2014 civil judgment, the Hammonds were ordered to pay $400,000 in restitution to the U.S. government for the related arson fires. The pair paid half the amount immediately and the remaining $200,000 in December 2015.[34]
> ***
> By late 2015, the Hammond case had attracted the attention of members of the family of Cliven Bundy, including sons Ammon and Ryan. The Bundys publicized the situation via social media, drawing interest from militia groups outside Oregon who sought to publicly endorse the Hammonds to draw attention to unrelated issues.[29][40] The Hammonds rejected the offers of assistance with Hammond attorney W. Alan Schroeder writing that "neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family."[3]When later asked about the occupation, Susan Hammond, the wife of Dwight Hammond, was dismissive and said, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."[41]
> 
> Harney County sheriff David Ward agreed to meet with the militia members who requested the sheriff's office protect the Hammonds from being taken into custody by federal authorities. Though Ward said he sympathized with the Hammonds' plight, he declined the militias' request. Ward said that he subsequently received death threats by email.[29]
> 
> Reactions
> 
> Anti-government activists
> 
> Cliven Bundy, the father of Ammon and Ryan Bundy, said he was not involved in organizing the takeover of the MNWR facilities and said it was "not exactly what I thought should happen".[40]
> 
> Asked about the incident, Mike Vanderboegh, a founder of the 3 Percenters militia, described the occupiers as "a collection of fruits and nuts", described John Ritzheimer as a "fool", and said Ammon Bundy had "a John Brown complex".[90]
> 
> The group Oath Keepers (of which Jon Ritzheimer was formerly a member) in a statement published on its website prior to the seizure of the MNWR facilities, said "we cannot force ourselves or our protection on people who do not want it. Dwight and Steven Hammond have made it clear, through their attorney, that they just want to turn themselves in and serve out their sentence. And that clear statement of their intent should be the end of the discussion on this."[91]
> 
> Tribal government
> 
> The governing council of the Burns Paiute Tribe, an Indian nation whose borders straddled Harney County, declared the occupiers were endangering the tribe's history by their presence and called on them to leave. Tribal chair Charlotte Rodrique went on to explain that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service was the protector of traditional Burns Paiute religious and archaeological sites in the area and that the displacement of federal authorities put such locations at risk.[96]
> 
> State, and local government
> 
> State Representative Cliff Bentz, who represents the region in the Oregon House of Representatives, said that the outside groups do not represents Burns or Harney County, saying, "They're trying to use the misfortune of the Hammonds to further the interests of the Bundys."[97]
> 
> In a January 6 press release, the Western State Sheriffs Association (WSSA), an organization representing 800 sheriffs in the American West, said its mission was to "promote the office of Sheriff and to assist our member Sheriffs on issues of mutual concern" and that it had offered Harney County Sheriff David Ward to organize out-of-state resources to send to Oregon if requested. The WSSA statement went on to note that it did not "support efforts of any individual or groups who utilize intimidation, threats or fear in order to further an agenda."[99]
> 
> Organizations
> 
> The Oregon Cattleman's Association, while maintaining it still supported the Hammonds, released a statement that declared it did "not support illegal activity taken against the government. This includes militia takeover of government property, such as the Malheur Wildlife Refuge."[100]
> 
> On January 4, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a statement condemning the militia actions and stating, "While the disagreement occurring in Oregon about the use of federal lands is not a Church matter, Church leaders strongly condemn the armed seizure of the facility and are deeply troubled by the reports that those who have seized the facility suggest that they are doing so based on scriptural principles. This armed occupation can in no way be justified on a scriptural basis."[57][101] The church also released an excerpt from a 1992 speech by Dallin H. Oaks, a senior Mormon religious leader, criticizing the "excessive zeal" of "those patriots who are participating in or provisioning private armies and making private preparations for armed conflict".[57]
> 
> The Audubon Society of Portland, in a written statement, said that the "occupation of Malheur by armed, out of state militia groups puts one of America's most important wildlife refuges at risk. It violates the most basic principles of the public trust doctrine and holds hostage public lands and public resources to serve the very narrow political agenda of the occupiers."[102]*
Click to expand...

 Lololol...


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> <snip>I bet that she, like the Bundy's, is a parasite living off the rest of us that pay taxes. Remember, Ammon Bundy has this very large outstanding loan from the federal government, that he has no intention of paying back. And who is financing these fellows? Even those of us making good wages don't take this kind of time off without financial repercussions. And there is a bunch of them out there. Where are they getting their money?



And back to massive personal attacks, conjecture, and half-truths with nothing to back you up.

You "bet" that Koshergirl is living off the rest of us.  Prove it.

Ammon Bundy has a large outstanding loan that he has no intention of paying back.  Prove it.

I do not know about most of the rest, but Ammon is an owner of two businesses, that must be where he is getting his money.


----------



## teddyearp

Seawytch said:


> What is there to "get rid of" beyond really cheap grazing fees? Do you think the state will lease that same land for less than the Feds?



You really don't get it do you.  I bet those rancher's (and many others across the west) would gladly pay 10 or 20 times the fees and still remain profitable as well.

It is not at all the amount of the fees, it is the continuing shrinkage of the grazing allotments that the .gov has imposed because of the environazis continued pressure for one reason or another.


----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, prove it.  When did they actually use women and children as shields.  Show me now in this event where they are using women and children as shields. Just having them present does NOT prove that they are being used as shields.
> 
> It is amazing how those who are blindingly supporting the .gov side are letting their truth be twisted and distorted.
Click to expand...

The kids and children are being used as shields by virtue of the fact they are there. When armed men threaten to use their weapons to prevent arrest and or removal they are inviting a gunfight. Injecting children into that situation can only be viewed as using the children as shields. i.e., objects to prevent offensive action against those threatened with arrest and removal. You are not that good a bullshitter, nor are the criminals at the refuge.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is there to "get rid of" beyond really cheap grazing fees? Do you think the state will lease that same land for less than the Feds?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really don't get it do you.  I bet those rancher would gladly pay 10 or 20 times the fees and still remain profitable.  It is not the amount of the fees, it is the continuing shrinkage of the grazing allotments that the .gov has imposed because of the environazis continued pressure for one reason or another.
Click to expand...

How much of the Hammonds' private property did the government "shrink?"


----------



## Seawytch

teddyearp said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is there to "get rid of" beyond really cheap grazing fees? Do you think the state will lease that same land for less than the Feds?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really don't get it do you.  I bet those rancher would gladly pay 10 or 20 times the fees and still remain profitable.  It is not the amount of the fees, it is the continuing shrinkage of the grazing allotments that the .gov has imposed because of the environazis continued pressure for one reason or another.
Click to expand...


Except there is no guarantee that the state would continue to use the land for grazing. It's a huge money loser and there is certainly no guarantee the land would be sold privately. 

Give us a link to this actual "shrinkage". How much has the amount of land "shrunk" and in what period of time? What amount of land does this wildlife sanctuary encompass? Do you not see value in wildlife preserves?


----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is there to "get rid of" beyond really cheap grazing fees? Do you think the state will lease that same land for less than the Feds?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really don't get it do you.  I bet those rancher would gladly pay 10 or 20 times the fees and still remain profitable.  It is not the amount of the fees, it is the continuing shrinkage of the grazing allotments that the .gov has imposed because of the environazis continued pressure for one reason or another.
Click to expand...

So what. What gives the ranchers special status. You think because you call others that want to use the land environazis they have less right to lobby and petition for how the land gets used. You need to demonize folks who see a better way to use the land than as grazing land. The fact is they are using the prescribed legal and peaceful method to obtain a larger portion of the public lands for environmental protection and preservation. Cattle grazing gets over 80% of BLM land in Oregon and other citizens want a bigger slice. People like the Bundy's show up with guns and threats and violence and demand special treatment. Now they are committing acts of destruction of our property by tearing down fences. What is to stop others from doing this all over the country?


----------



## TheOldSchool

Are those terrorists still doing this?  How much longer until they start getting scoped?


----------



## teddyearp

RollingThunder said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, prove it.  When did they actually use women and children as shields.  Show me now in this event where they are using women and children as shields. Just having them present does NOT prove that they are being used as shields.
> 
> It is amazing how those who are blindingly supporting the .gov side are letting their truth be twisted and distorted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You clueless fool!
> 
> Here are the facts that you choose to remain willfully blind to....In a very good sumary of the entire situation, and the background of the conflict, and some of the various reactions to this armed occupation.
> 
> *Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge*
> 
> Here's a few choice excerpts...
Click to expand...


Wow, just wow.  I usually use wikipedia myself, but this article is definitely skewed harshly with supposed's and alleged's and the references are mainly to the latest articles which have painted only one side of the story, the side that many of you here have lapped up as truth.  Do you know the difference between and indictment and a conviction?


----------



## TheOldSchool




----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> How much of the Hammonds' private property did the government "shrink?"



Well since you asked, lets post the other side of the story (again):

(aa) The Harney Basin (were the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.

(ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. 

(a) In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.

(a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.

(a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.

(a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.

(a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers that still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling fact about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study that was done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed that the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed that the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced 4 times more ducks and geese than the refuge did. It also showed that the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.

(b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out that the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive towards the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found that the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.* 

(c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with "disturbing and interfering with" federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony). He spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland before he was hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.

(d) The FWS also began restricting access to upper pieces of the Hammond’s private property. In order to get to the upper part of the Hammond’s ranch they had to go on a road that went through the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge. The FWS began barricading the road and threatening the Hammonds if they drove through it. The Hammonds removed the barricades and gates and continued to use their right of access. The road was 
proven later to be owned by the County of Harney. This further enraged the BLM & FWS. 

(e) Shortly after the road & water disputes, the BLM & FWS arbitrarily revoked the Hammond’s upper grazing permit without any given cause, court proceeding or court ruling. As a traditional “fence out state” Oregon requires no obligation on the part of an owner to keep his or her livestock within a fence or to maintain control over the movement of the livestock. The Hammonds intended to still use their private property for grazing. However, they were informed that a federal judge ruled, in a federal court, that the federal government did not have to observe the Oregon fence out law. “Those laws are for the people, not for them”.

(f) The Hammonds were forced to either build and maintain miles of fences or be restricted from the use of their private property. Cutting their ranch in almost half, they could not afford to fence the land, so the cattle were removed. 

(g) The Hammonds experienced many years of financial hardship due to the ranch being diminished. The Hammonds had to sale their ranch and home in order to purchase another property that had enough grass to feed their cattle. This property included two grazing rights on public land. Those were also arbitrarily revoked later. 

(h) The owner of the Hammond’s original ranch passed away from a heart attack and the Hammonds made a trade for the ranch back.

(i) In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries. 

(j) In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”. 

(j1) The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff's office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined that the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.

(k) In 2011, 5 years after the police report was taken, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges, they accused them of being “Terrorist” under the Federal Antiterrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death. Dwight & Steven’s mug shots were all over the news the next week posing them as “Arsonists”. Susan Hammond (Wife & Mother) said: “I would walk down the street or go in a store, people I had known for years would take extreme measures to avoid me”.

(l) Shortly after the sentencing, Capital Press ran a story about the Hammonds. A person who identified as Greg Allum posted three comments on the article, calling the ranchers “clowns” who endangered firefighters and other people in the area while burning valuable rangeland. Greg Allum, a retired BLM heavy equipment operator, soon called Capital Press to complain that he had not made those comments and request that they be taken down from the website. Capital Press removed the comments. A search of the Internet Protocol address associated with the comments revealed it is owned by the BLM’s office in Denver, Colorado. Allum said, he is friends with the Hammonds and was alerted to the comments by neighbors who knew he wouldn’t have written them. “I feel bad for them. They lost a lot and they’re going to lose more,” Allum said of the ranchers. “They’re not terrorists. There’s this hatred in the BLM for them, and I don’t get it,” The retired BLM employee said. Jody Weil, deputy state director for communications at BLM’s Oregon office, indicated to reporters that if one of their agents falsified the comments, they would keep it private and not inform the public.

(m) In September 2006, Dwight & Susan Hammond’s home was raided. The agents informed the Hammonds that they were looking for evidence that would connect them to the fires. The Hammonds later found out that a boot print and a tire tracks were found near one of the many fires. No matching boots or tires were found in the Hammonds home or on their property. Susan Hammond (Wife) later said; " I have never felt so violated in my life. We are ranchers not criminals”.  Steven Hammond openly maintains his testimony that he started the backfire to save the winter grass from being destroyed and that the backfire ended up working so well it put out the fire entirely altogether.

(n) During the trial proceedings, Federal Court Judge Michael Hogan did not allow time for certain testimonies and evidence into the trail that would exonerate the Hammonds. Federal prosecuting attorney, Frank Papagni, was given full access for 6 days. He had ample time to use any evidence or testimony that strengthened the demonization of the Hammonds. The Hammonds attorney was only allowed 1 day. Much of the facts about the fires, land and why the Hammonds acted the way they did was not allowed into the proceedings and was not heard by the jury.  For example, Judge Hogan did not allow time for the jury to hear or review certified scientific findings that the fires improved the health and productivity of the land. Or, that the Hammonds had been subject to vindictive behavior by multiple federal agencies for years.

(o) Federal attorneys, Frank Papagni, hunted down a witness that was not mentally capable to be a credible witness. Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire. He was 13 at the time and 24 when he testified (11 years later). At 24 Dusty had been suffering with mental problems for many years. He had estranged his family including his mother. Judge Hogan noted that Dusty’s memories as a 13-year-old boy were not clear or credible. He allowed the prosecution to continually use Dusty’s testimony anyway. When speaking to the Hammonds about this testimony, they understood that Dusty was manipulated and expressed nothing but love for their troubled grandson.

(p) Judge Michael Hogan & Frank Papagni tampered with the jury many times throughout the proceedings, including during the selection process. Hogan & Papagni only allowed people on the jury who did not understand the customs and culture of the ranchers or how the land is used and cared for in the Diamond Valley. All of the jurors had to drive back and forth to Pendleton everyday. Some drove more than two hours each way. By day 8 they were exhausted and expressed desires to be home. On the final day, Judge Hogan kept pushing them to make a verdict. Several times during deliberation, Judge Hogan pushed them to make a decision. Judge Hogan also would not allow the jury to hear what punishment could be imposed upon an individual that has convicted as a terrorist under the 1996 act. The jury, not understanding the customs and cultures of the area, influenced by the prosecutors for 6 straight days, very exhausted, pushed for a verdict by the judge, unaware of the ramification of convicting someone as a terrorist, made a verdict and went home.

 (q) June 22, 2012, Dwight and Steven were found guilty of starting both the 2001 and the 2006 fires by the jury. However, the federal courts convicted them both as "Terrorist" under the 1996 Antiterrorism Act. Judge Hogan sentenced Dwight (Father) to 3 months in prison and Steven (son) to 12 months in federal prison. They were also stipulated to pay $400,000 to the BLM. Hogan overruling the minimum terrorist sentence, commenting that if the full five years were required it would be a violation of the 8th amendment (cruel and unusual punishment). The day of the sentencing Judge Hogan retired as a federal judge. In his honor the staff served chocolate cake in the courtroom.

(r) On January 4,, 2013, Dwight and Steven reported to prison. They fulfilled their sentences, (Dwight 3 months, Steven 12 months). Dwight was released in March 2013 and Steven, January 2014.
(s) Sometime in June 2014, Rhonda Karges, Field Manager for the BLM, and her husband Chad Karges, Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife Refuge (which surrounds the Hammond ranch), along with attorney Frank Papagni exemplifying further vindictive behavior by filing an appeal with the 9th District Federal Court seeking Dwight’s and Steven’s return to federal prison for the entire 5 years.* 

(t) In October 2015, the 9th District Court “resentenced” Dwight and Steven, requiring them to return to prison for several more years. Steven (46) has a wife and 3 children. Dwight (74) will leave Susan (74) to be alone after 55 years of marriage. If he survives, he will be 79 when he is released. 

(u) During the court preceding the Hammonds were forced to grant the BLM first right of refusal. If the Hammonds ever sold their ranch they would have to sell it to the BLM.

(v) Dwight and Steven are ordered to report to federal prison again on January 4th, 2016 to begin their resentencing. Both their wives will have to manage the ranch for several years without them. To date they have paid $200,000 to the BLM, and the remainder $200,000 must be paid before the end of this year (2015). If the Hammonds cannot pay the fines to the BLM, they will be forced to sell the ranch to the BLM or face further prosecution.

Notes:

S* Rhonda Karges – Resource Field Manager for the BLM is the wife of Chad Karges Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife refuge.
Rhonda specifically deals with all the BLM issues relating to the area in and around Hammonds property including “grazing denial”. Her husband just happens to be the person in charge of all the issues surrounding the Hammonds ranch such as “water and access”.

b* Soon after the water rights dispute the federal government influenced the State of Oregon to change their water law in favor of federal agencies. Wildlife is now considered in the State of Oregon as an accepted beneficial use for government agencies only. 

k*  Being convicted as Terrorist made the Hammonds felons. They have been striped of their right to have guns. The Hammond live 53 miles from the closets town and have no practical way of defending themselves or their cattle. Several times they have watched baby calves be eaten by predators and could do nothing to prevent it.

Link:Bundy Ranch


----------



## TheOldSchool

I love how Teddy, a super pro Israel supporter, is against an authority confiscating land for its own purposes.  And how he supports armed insurrection to take back the land.  That's knee slapping comedy right there.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much of the Hammonds' private property did the government "shrink?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well since you asked, lets post the other side of the story (again):
> 
> (aa) The Harney Basin (were the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> 
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers that still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling fact about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study that was done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed that the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed that the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced 4 times more ducks and geese than the refuge did. It also showed that the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> 
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out that the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive towards the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found that the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> 
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with "disturbing and interfering with" federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony). He spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland before he was hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.
> 
> (d) The FWS also began restricting access to upper pieces of the Hammond’s private property. In order to get to the upper part of the Hammond’s ranch they had to go on a road that went through the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge. The FWS began barricading the road and threatening the Hammonds if they drove through it. The Hammonds removed the barricades and gates and continued to use their right of access. The road was
> proven later to be owned by the County of Harney. This further enraged the BLM & FWS.
> 
> (e) Shortly after the road & water disputes, the BLM & FWS arbitrarily revoked the Hammond’s upper grazing permit without any given cause, court proceeding or court ruling. As a traditional “fence out state” Oregon requires no obligation on the part of an owner to keep his or her livestock within a fence or to maintain control over the movement of the livestock. The Hammonds intended to still use their private property for grazing. However, they were informed that a federal judge ruled, in a federal court, that the federal government did not have to observe the Oregon fence out law. “Those laws are for the people, not for them”.
> 
> (f) The Hammonds were forced to either build and maintain miles of fences or be restricted from the use of their private property. Cutting their ranch in almost half, they could not afford to fence the land, so the cattle were removed.
> 
> (g) The Hammonds experienced many years of financial hardship due to the ranch being diminished. The Hammonds had to sale their ranch and home in order to purchase another property that had enough grass to feed their cattle. This property included two grazing rights on public land. Those were also arbitrarily revoked later.
> 
> (h) The owner of the Hammond’s original ranch passed away from a heart attack and the Hammonds made a trade for the ranch back.
> 
> (i) In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries.
> 
> (j) In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.
> 
> (j1) The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff's office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined that the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.
> 
> (k) In 2011, 5 years after the police report was taken, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges, they accused them of being “Terrorist” under the Federal Antiterrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death. Dwight & Steven’s mug shots were all over the news the next week posing them as “Arsonists”. Susan Hammond (Wife & Mother) said: “I would walk down the street or go in a store, people I had known for years would take extreme measures to avoid me”.
> 
> (l) Shortly after the sentencing, Capital Press ran a story about the Hammonds. A person who identified as Greg Allum posted three comments on the article, calling the ranchers “clowns” who endangered firefighters and other people in the area while burning valuable rangeland. Greg Allum, a retired BLM heavy equipment operator, soon called Capital Press to complain that he had not made those comments and request that they be taken down from the website. Capital Press removed the comments. A search of the Internet Protocol address associated with the comments revealed it is owned by the BLM’s office in Denver, Colorado. Allum said, he is friends with the Hammonds and was alerted to the comments by neighbors who knew he wouldn’t have written them. “I feel bad for them. They lost a lot and they’re going to lose more,” Allum said of the ranchers. “They’re not terrorists. There’s this hatred in the BLM for them, and I don’t get it,” The retired BLM employee said. Jody Weil, deputy state director for communications at BLM’s Oregon office, indicated to reporters that if one of their agents falsified the comments, they would keep it private and not inform the public.
> 
> (m) In September 2006, Dwight & Susan Hammond’s home was raided. The agents informed the Hammonds that they were looking for evidence that would connect them to the fires. The Hammonds later found out that a boot print and a tire tracks were found near one of the many fires. No matching boots or tires were found in the Hammonds home or on their property. Susan Hammond (Wife) later said; " I have never felt so violated in my life. We are ranchers not criminals”.  Steven Hammond openly maintains his testimony that he started the backfire to save the winter grass from being destroyed and that the backfire ended up working so well it put out the fire entirely altogether.
> 
> (n) During the trial proceedings, Federal Court Judge Michael Hogan did not allow time for certain testimonies and evidence into the trail that would exonerate the Hammonds. Federal prosecuting attorney, Frank Papagni, was given full access for 6 days. He had ample time to use any evidence or testimony that strengthened the demonization of the Hammonds. The Hammonds attorney was only allowed 1 day. Much of the facts about the fires, land and why the Hammonds acted the way they did was not allowed into the proceedings and was not heard by the jury.  For example, Judge Hogan did not allow time for the jury to hear or review certified scientific findings that the fires improved the health and productivity of the land. Or, that the Hammonds had been subject to vindictive behavior by multiple federal agencies for years.
> 
> (o) Federal attorneys, Frank Papagni, hunted down a witness that was not mentally capable to be a credible witness. Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire. He was 13 at the time and 24 when he testified (11 years later). At 24 Dusty had been suffering with mental problems for many years. He had estranged his family including his mother. Judge Hogan noted that Dusty’s memories as a 13-year-old boy were not clear or credible. He allowed the prosecution to continually use Dusty’s testimony anyway. When speaking to the Hammonds about this testimony, they understood that Dusty was manipulated and expressed nothing but love for their troubled grandson.
> 
> (p) Judge Michael Hogan & Frank Papagni tampered with the jury many times throughout the proceedings, including during the selection process. Hogan & Papagni only allowed people on the jury who did not understand the customs and culture of the ranchers or how the land is used and cared for in the Diamond Valley. All of the jurors had to drive back and forth to Pendleton everyday. Some drove more than two hours each way. By day 8 they were exhausted and expressed desires to be home. On the final day, Judge Hogan kept pushing them to make a verdict. Several times during deliberation, Judge Hogan pushed them to make a decision. Judge Hogan also would not allow the jury to hear what punishment could be imposed upon an individual that has convicted as a terrorist under the 1996 act. The jury, not understanding the customs and cultures of the area, influenced by the prosecutors for 6 straight days, very exhausted, pushed for a verdict by the judge, unaware of the ramification of convicting someone as a terrorist, made a verdict and went home.
> 
> (q) June 22, 2012, Dwight and Steven were found guilty of starting both the 2001 and the 2006 fires by the jury. However, the federal courts convicted them both as "Terrorist" under the 1996 Antiterrorism Act. Judge Hogan sentenced Dwight (Father) to 3 months in prison and Steven (son) to 12 months in federal prison. They were also stipulated to pay $400,000 to the BLM. Hogan overruling the minimum terrorist sentence, commenting that if the full five years were required it would be a violation of the 8th amendment (cruel and unusual punishment). The day of the sentencing Judge Hogan retired as a federal judge. In his honor the staff served chocolate cake in the courtroom.
> 
> (r) On January 4,, 2013, Dwight and Steven reported to prison. They fulfilled their sentences, (Dwight 3 months, Steven 12 months). Dwight was released in March 2013 and Steven, January 2014.
> (s) Sometime in June 2014, Rhonda Karges, Field Manager for the BLM, and her husband Chad Karges, Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife Refuge (which surrounds the Hammond ranch), along with attorney Frank Papagni exemplifying further vindictive behavior by filing an appeal with the 9th District Federal Court seeking Dwight’s and Steven’s return to federal prison for the entire 5 years.*
> 
> (t) In October 2015, the 9th District Court “resentenced” Dwight and Steven, requiring them to return to prison for several more years. Steven (46) has a wife and 3 children. Dwight (74) will leave Susan (74) to be alone after 55 years of marriage. If he survives, he will be 79 when he is released.
> 
> (u) During the court preceding the Hammonds were forced to grant the BLM first right of refusal. If the Hammonds ever sold their ranch they would have to sell it to the BLM.
> 
> (v) Dwight and Steven are ordered to report to federal prison again on January 4th, 2016 to begin their resentencing. Both their wives will have to manage the ranch for several years without them. To date they have paid $200,000 to the BLM, and the remainder $200,000 must be paid before the end of this year (2015). If the Hammonds cannot pay the fines to the BLM, they will be forced to sell the ranch to the BLM or face further prosecution.
> 
> Notes:
> 
> S* Rhonda Karges – Resource Field Manager for the BLM is the wife of Chad Karges Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife refuge.
> Rhonda specifically deals with all the BLM issues relating to the area in and around Hammonds property including “grazing denial”. Her husband just happens to be the person in charge of all the issues surrounding the Hammonds ranch such as “water and access”.
> 
> b* Soon after the water rights dispute the federal government influenced the State of Oregon to change their water law in favor of federal agencies. Wildlife is now considered in the State of Oregon as an accepted beneficial use for government agencies only.
> 
> k*  Being convicted as Terrorist made the Hammonds felons. They have been striped of their right to have guns. The Hammond live 53 miles from the closets town and have no practical way of defending themselves or their cattle. Several times they have watched baby calves be eaten by predators and could do nothing to prevent it.
> 
> Link:Bundy Ranch
Click to expand...

Thanks, but despite the verbosity, you didn't actually answer my question.

Let's try a different approach..... you show the Hammonds started with 6,000 acres in 1964 .... how many acres do they have now...?


----------



## Dhara

teddyearp said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields. It is amazing how the terrorist supporters will twist and distort reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Gunfight?
> 
> What are you Communists planning?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am starting to wonder if some of these folks sat back and applauded how the .gov handled Ruby ridge and Waco.  Thrilled over the spilling of blood.  Cheered the .gov on.  Saddened that the .gov did not escalate the same way at the Bundy ranch, and other not so publicized events since.  I really think that some of you folks like to see the .gov go and kill our own.
Click to expand...

I would think most people were horrified by Waco and Ruby Ridge.  I sure was.


----------



## teddyearp

TheOldSchool said:


> I love how Teddy, a super pro Israel supporter, is against an authority confiscating land for its own purposes.  And how he supports armed insurrection to take back the land.  That's knee slapping comedy right there.



OldSchool, the fast answer is that there is no comparison at all. None. There is no way at all to compare Israel and the United States of America and their land issues as they were both created under vastly different circumstances.

And for the record I do not totally support the 'armed insurrection', but I do support the cause and spirit behind it.


----------



## teddyearp

So although there isn't any YouTube videos from the local 'citizens community' this one here hasn't had nearly enough exposure.  I think it could be quite the show stopper:


----------



## TheOldSchool

teddyearp said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love how Teddy, a super pro Israel supporter, is against an authority confiscating land for its own purposes.  And how he supports armed insurrection to take back the land.  That's knee slapping comedy right there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldSchool, the fast answer is that there is no comparison at all. None. There is no way at all to compare Israel and the United States of America and their land issues as they were both created under vastly different circumstances.
> 
> And for the record I do not totally support the 'armed insurrection', but I do support the cause and spirit behind it.
Click to expand...

Those nutjob terrorists may have a point, but it's been negated by their armed takeover of federal property and daring law enforcement to give them a reason to murder them.

And there is absolutely a way to compare this to Israel/Palestine, but I doubt you'll "support the cause and spirit behind" Palestinian terrorists.


----------



## koshergrl

The Oregonian reporters are creating a huge conspiracy theory about how the Bundy duped the local Hammond supporters to undermine the local support and demonize the Hammond as these masterminds...Again totally ignoring the fact that the locals REALLY hate the Feds. They're giving it all they've got.


----------



## Dot Com

Uncensored2008 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> he is a world-class lair yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a "lair," dog cum?
> 
> You will never phere me, I suppose?
Click to expand...

its an inside-joke Rightard Uncensored2008


----------



## Dot Com

RollingThunder said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, prove it.  When did they actually use women and children as shields.  Show me now in this event where they are using women and children as shields. Just having them present does NOT prove that they are being used as shields.
> 
> It is amazing how those who are blindingly supporting the .gov side are letting their truth be twisted and distorted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You clueless fool!
> 
> Here are the facts that you choose to remain willfully blind to....In a very good sumary of the entire situation, and the background of the conflict, and some of the various reactions to this armed occupation.
> 
> *Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge*
> 
> Here's a few choice excerpts...
> 
> *On January 2, 2016, armed[8] members of rump militias occupied the headquarters building at the United States Fish and Wildlife Service's Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in rural southeastern Oregon in protest of the pending imprisonment of ranchers Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven Hammond. The two were convicted on charges of arson in 2012 for unlawfully setting fire to federal land under a domestic anti-terrorism law after setting brush fires to clear grazing land without the required permit.[9]Ammon Bundy, the leader of the group now calling themselves Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, said he began leading the occupation after receiving a divine message from God ordering him to do so.[10][11]
> 
> Although their sentences and imprisonment were a stated cause of the dispute, the Hammonds have repeatedly rejected the intervention of militias. Dwight Hammond's wife stated, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."
> 
> Some of the militia members stated that they were ready to "kill and be killed" in the standoff.[13] The takeover sparked a debate in the U.S. on the meaning of the word "terrorist" in the context of domestic terrorism in the country, and furthermore on how the media and law enforcement treat situations involving people of different ethnicities or religions.[14][15][16]
> 
> Dwight Hammond, a cattle rancher in Harney County, owns 12,000 acres (4,900 ha) of land, much of which abuts public land. In 1994, Hammond and his son Steve obstructed the construction of a fence to delineate the boundary between the two parcels of property, prompting their arrest by federal agents. According to federal officials, construction of the fence was needed to stop the Hammond cattle from moving along a cattle trail that intersected public land after the Hammonds had repeatedly violated the terms of their permit, which limited when they could move their cows across refuge property.[25]Officials also reported Hammond had made threats against them in 1986 and 1988, including telling one public lands manager that he was going to "tear off his head and shit down his neck". They also contended Steve Hammond had called them "assholes".[26]
> 
> In 1999, Steve Hammond started a fire with the intent of burning off juniper trees and sagebrush, but the fire escaped onto BLM land. The agency reminded Hammond of the required burn permit and that if the fires continued, there would be legal consequences.[27] Both Dwight and Steve Hammond would later on set two additional fires that would lead to arson convictions.[28]
> 
> Hammond arson case
> 
> In 2012, a federal district court jury found Dwight and Steve Hammond guilty of arson, for fires they had started on the federal land adjacent to their property in 2001 and 2006.[29]
> 
> The 2001 Hardie-Hammond Fire began according to Probation Officer Robb, when hunters in the area witnessed the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer.[30] Less than two hours later, a fire erupted and forced the hunters to leave the area.[31] Later, Steve's nephew Dusty Hammond testified that his uncle told him to start lighting matches and "light the whole countryside on fire." Dusty also testified that he was "almost burned up in the fire" and had to flee for his life.[27][32] The Hammonds have falsely claimed they started the fire to stop invasive plants from growing onto their grazing fields.[33]
> 
> The 2006 Krumbo Butte Fire started out as a wildfire, but several illegal backburns were set by the Hammonds with the intent to protect their winter feed. The backfires were set under the cover of night without warning the firefighting camp that was known to be on the slopes above.[31][34] According to the indictment, the fires threatened to trap four BLM firefighters, one of whom later confronted Dwight Hammond at the fire scene after having moved his crews to avoid the threat.[31][32] Two days later, Steve Hammond threatened to frame a BLM employee with arson if he didn't stop the investigation.[33]
> 
> Following their conviction, federal prosecutors requested a five-year sentence for each of the Hammonds as provided for under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 (AEDPA).[34] The AEDPA provides that arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence.[35][36] U.S. District Judge Michael Robert Hogan determined sentences of that length "would shock the conscience" and would violate the constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. Hogan instead sentenced Dwight Hammond to three months' imprisonment and Steve Hammond to a year and a day's imprisonment, which both men served.[37] In what was described by media as a "rare" action, U.S. Attorney Amanda Marshall successfully appealed the sentence to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which upheld the mandatory-minimum law, writing that "given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense." The court vacated the original sentence and remanded for resentencing. The Hammonds filed petitions for certiorari with the Supreme Court, which the court rejected in March 2015.[35] In October 2015, Chief Judge Ann Aiken re-sentenced the pair to five years in prison (with credit for time served), ordering that they return to prison on January 4, 2016.[35][37] Both of the Hammonds reported to prison in California on January 4 in accordance with the law.[38]
> 
> In a separate 2014 civil judgment, the Hammonds were ordered to pay $400,000 in restitution to the U.S. government for the related arson fires. The pair paid half the amount immediately and the remaining $200,000 in December 2015.[34]
> ***
> By late 2015, the Hammond case had attracted the attention of members of the family of Cliven Bundy, including sons Ammon and Ryan. The Bundys publicized the situation via social media, drawing interest from militia groups outside Oregon who sought to publicly endorse the Hammonds to draw attention to unrelated issues.[29][40] The Hammonds rejected the offers of assistance with Hammond attorney W. Alan Schroeder writing that "neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family."[3]When later asked about the occupation, Susan Hammond, the wife of Dwight Hammond, was dismissive and said, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."[41]
> 
> Harney County sheriff David Ward agreed to meet with the militia members who requested the sheriff's office protect the Hammonds from being taken into custody by federal authorities. Though Ward said he sympathized with the Hammonds' plight, he declined the militias' request. Ward said that he subsequently received death threats by email.[29]
> 
> Reactions
> 
> Anti-government activists
> 
> Cliven Bundy, the father of Ammon and Ryan Bundy, said he was not involved in organizing the takeover of the MNWR facilities and said it was "not exactly what I thought should happen".[40]
> 
> Asked about the incident, Mike Vanderboegh, a founder of the 3 Percenters militia, described the occupiers as "a collection of fruits and nuts", described John Ritzheimer as a "fool", and said Ammon Bundy had "a John Brown complex".[90]
> 
> The group Oath Keepers (of which Jon Ritzheimer was formerly a member) in a statement published on its website prior to the seizure of the MNWR facilities, said "we cannot force ourselves or our protection on people who do not want it. Dwight and Steven Hammond have made it clear, through their attorney, that they just want to turn themselves in and serve out their sentence. And that clear statement of their intent should be the end of the discussion on this."[91]
> 
> Tribal government
> 
> The governing council of the Burns Paiute Tribe, an Indian nation whose borders straddled Harney County, declared the occupiers were endangering the tribe's history by their presence and called on them to leave. Tribal chair Charlotte Rodrique went on to explain that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service was the protector of traditional Burns Paiute religious and archaeological sites in the area and that the displacement of federal authorities put such locations at risk.[96]
> 
> State, and local government
> 
> State Representative Cliff Bentz, who represents the region in the Oregon House of Representatives, said that the outside groups do not represents Burns or Harney County, saying, "They're trying to use the misfortune of the Hammonds to further the interests of the Bundys."[97]
> 
> In a January 6 press release, the Western State Sheriffs Association (WSSA), an organization representing 800 sheriffs in the American West, said its mission was to "promote the office of Sheriff and to assist our member Sheriffs on issues of mutual concern" and that it had offered Harney County Sheriff David Ward to organize out-of-state resources to send to Oregon if requested. The WSSA statement went on to note that it did not "support efforts of any individual or groups who utilize intimidation, threats or fear in order to further an agenda."[99]
> 
> Organizations
> 
> The Oregon Cattleman's Association, while maintaining it still supported the Hammonds, released a statement that declared it did "not support illegal activity taken against the government. This includes militia takeover of government property, such as the Malheur Wildlife Refuge."[100]
> 
> On January 4, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a statement condemning the militia actions and stating, "While the disagreement occurring in Oregon about the use of federal lands is not a Church matter, Church leaders strongly condemn the armed seizure of the facility and are deeply troubled by the reports that those who have seized the facility suggest that they are doing so based on scriptural principles. This armed occupation can in no way be justified on a scriptural basis."[57][101] The church also released an excerpt from a 1992 speech by Dallin H. Oaks, a senior Mormon religious leader, criticizing the "excessive zeal" of "those patriots who are participating in or provisioning private armies and making private preparations for armed conflict".[57]
> 
> The Audubon Society of Portland, in a written statement, said that the "occupation of Malheur by armed, out of state militia groups puts one of America's most important wildlife refuges at risk. It violates the most basic principles of the public trust doctrine and holds hostage public lands and public resources to serve the very narrow political agenda of the occupiers."[102]*
Click to expand...

I ESPECIALLY like this part:

*



Asked about the incident, Mike Vanderboegh, a founder of the 3 Percenters militia, described the occupiers as "a collection of fruits and nuts", described John Ritzheimer as a "fool", and said Ammon Bundy had "a John Brown complex".[90]

Click to expand...

*


----------



## Old Rocks

Authorities Should Hold Extremists Accountable for Seizure of Public Land

Washington, DC -(AmmoLand.com)- For the last several days, as reported by numerous news outlets, a headquarters facility at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in eastern Oregon has been occupied by an armed group of extremists from outside the state.

This ongoing occupation represents a seizure of public land that American hunters and anglers find unacceptable.
The Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership and seven major sportsmen’s groups—the Wildlife Management Institute, Trout Unlimited, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, Public Lands Foundation, Berkley Conservation Institute, Snook and Gamefish Foundation, and Dallas Safari Club—are united in condemning these unlawful actions and have issued the following statement:

_“Many citizens of the West—sportsmen and women included—take issue with some public land management decisions, but there is a legitimate process, well-established by law, to provide significant opportunity for public input and influence on these decisions. When an extreme minority uses lawlessness and threats of violence to occupy public land, it threatens the rights of many for the benefit of very few—a profoundly un-American course of action. We want to thank refuge employees, public land management employees, and law enforcement personnel for their dedicated service during this incident, and we’d urge authorities to uphold law and order by bringing a peaceful resolution to the occupation and then by bringing these armed extremists to justice.”_



Read more: Authorities Should Hold Extremists Accountable for Seizure of Public Land 

Under Creative Commons License: Attribution 
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

*Looks like even many of the gun nuts are not exactly thrilled.*


----------



## Old Rocks

teddyearp said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK. Let's follow what would happen if the loonies get their demands. So, the Federal government cedes the lands to the states. Then the state government has a bad budget year and decides that the lands are nothing but a financial drain, and sells them off. Are the ranchers going to buy them? No way, they simply do not have the money. So who does? The Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Now the land that the ranchers previously grazed their cattle on is in private ownership, and they have to pay over 10 times as much per head to graze their cows on that land. That is the present ratio of private grazing fees compared to federal grazing fees.
> 
> Now everyone has the right to hunt on the government land open to hunting, provided they have the tags. Once that land is in private ownership, you will see most of it as fee hunting only. And the best of it will be reserved for 'hunting clubs' whose membership is from foreign nations. Same for fishing. We already have hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon.
> 
> This is what the Bundy's and people like Kosher are working for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This post actually has a tiny bit to discus without a ton of personal attacking.  I do not really think it would be wise either to cede the land back to the states, but the aggressive and progressive closure of more and more of our public lands is what has really brought us here.
> 
> Curious about your claim, these "hundreds of square miles of private land tied up this way in Oregon", is it owned by Saudis, Chinese and Japanese for private hunting clubs?
Click to expand...

No, it is not owned by the Saudis, Chinese, or Japanese. It is under Contract for a certain number of years for a fee from the locals that own the land. And the hunting club that buys those hunting rights stipulate that they have sole access. Most of the time, the hunting club has a local city or county name, but when you look into the actual membership and owners, they are foreign.


----------



## Old Rocks

teddyearp said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is there to "get rid of" beyond really cheap grazing fees? Do you think the state will lease that same land for less than the Feds?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really don't get it do you.  I bet those rancher's (and many others across the west) would gladly pay 10 or 20 times the fees and still remain profitable as well.
> 
> It is not at all the amount of the fees, it is the continuing shrinkage of the grazing allotments that the .gov has imposed because of the environazis continued pressure for one reason or another.
Click to expand...

For the ranchers, that would be devastating. They simply cannot afford to pay those kinds of grazing fees. As for the reduction of grazing allotments, you do realize that there has been an ongoing drought, lowering the lands ability to sustain the past number of cows. The BLM even rounds up wild horses to reduce the pressure on the land.


----------



## Old Rocks

*Malheur Lake* is one of the lakes in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Harney County in the U.S. state of Oregon. Located about 18 miles (29 km) southeast of Burns, the lake is a marsh fed by the Donner und Blitzen River from the south and the Silvies River from the north. Malheur Lake periodically overflows into Mud Lake to the west and thence to Harney Lake, the sink of Harney Basin.[1]

The western area of Malheur Lake consists of ponds separated by small islands and peninsulas. The lake's central and eastern sections are more open. The generally shallow water is suitable habitat for migratory birds, waterfowl, and aquatic plants.[4]

As is typical of Great Basin lakes, Malheur Lake's surface area changes dramatically with the local weather, climate, and season because the lake is in a very flat basin. A large influence on the water volume is local snow melt, especially from Steens Mountain, south of the lake. For example, large snowpacks in the mid-1980s caused the lake to expand from approximately 67 to 160 square miles (170 to 410 km2) within three years, flooding usually dry areas and damaging a branch of the Oregon Eastern Railway. Soon afterward, drought in the early 1990s reduced the lake size to just 200 acres (0.31 sq mi), exposing large mudflats and dusty playas.[4][5]

Malheur Lake is a remnant of a much larger Pleistocene lake that drained east to the Malheur River, a tributary of the Snake River.[1][4] The size of this ancient lake, which existed during a wetter climate, has been estimated at 900 square miles (2,300 km2), with a maximum depth of 35 feet (11 m). Its outlet was originally a channel near New Princeton, but lava flows diverted the water to a gap near Crane. Much of the original lake bottom has since turned into desert or become meadows periodically watered by lake overflows. Mud Lake and Harney Lake are also remnants of the original pluvial lake.[1]

The lakes as well as nearby marshes and playas are part of Harney Basin. The basin, a closed depression, covers 5,300 square miles (14,000 km2), which makes it larger than the state of Connecticut.[6]

Malheur Lake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The wetlands were not created by the ranchers. Although in the spring, the flood irrigation they use expanded the use of that area for migrating birds, the migratory birds have been using that land for hundreds of thousands of years,


----------



## skookerasbil

Anybody else notice the typical double standard employed by the progressives.

Remember this?



What did you hear from progressives then?




Progressives hate public demonstrations if its not their people doing the demonstrating.




ghey


----------



## Camp

skookerasbil said:


> Anybody else notice the typical double standard employed by the progressives.
> 
> Remember this?
> 
> 
> 
> What did you hear from progressives then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Progressives hate public demonstrations if its not their people doing the demonstrating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ghey


Neither the people in Baltimore nor the people at Malheur are examples of "demonstrating", although both began as demonstrations, both advanced into criminal behavior and activities. In Baltimore, arrests were made. In Malheur, none has been made but are reported to be pending.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jc456 said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> if what they are doing is unconstitutional, then the feds should go in and take them out.  The funny thing is the locals are using them for their position and back them, and with that, the feds are at a crossroads.  I think the militia folks would need some lawyers to move forward, not sure their plan though. As does no one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What Bundy et al are doing is illegal. How we ended up in a position that beef production is dependant on federal land is another story; but sadly we are. Obama has goals that are sharply in conflict with the well being of the nation, and denying grazing rights is one of the many ways that he is waging his war on the middle class. The real problem is that the ranchers have little legal recourse.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh well, it is what they are willing to do for their businesses and fellow citizens.  Is it legal to rearrest the Hammonds or whatever their name was?
Click to expand...


They aren't rearrested only resentenced to the MANDATORY MINIMUM sentence for their crime.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

Uncensored2008 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> oh well, it is what they are willing to do for their businesses and fellow citizens.  Is it legal to rearrest the Hammonds or whatever their name was?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that is double-jeopardy and violates the Constitution. But there are two issues, the BLM land and grazing, and the terrorist kidnapping of the Hammonds.
> 
> Bundy is taking a bad approach in regard to the BLM, breaking the law destroys his position.
> 
> For the Hammonds, 10,000 armed men should storm the 9th circus clowns and demand the immediate release of the hostages these terrorists are holding.
Click to expand...


Not double jeopardy at all. The were neither new charges nor a new trial, only an order for them to serve the MANDATORY minimum sentence for their conviction.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

skookerasbil said:


> Anybody else notice the typical double standard employed by the progressives.
> 
> Remember this?
> 
> 
> 
> What did you hear from progressives then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Progressives hate public demonstrations if its not their people doing the demonstrating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ghey


----------



## jon_berzerk

maybe because in oregon 

they are not chanting fuck the police 

and burning other peoples private property down


----------



## Luddly Neddite

skookerasbil said:


> Anybody else notice the typical double standard employed by the progressives.
> 
> Remember this?
> 
> 
> 
> What did you hear from progressives then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Progressives hate public demonstrations if its not their people doing the demonstrating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ghey







Very funny that *these bozos are fighting with each other, drunk, stealing money and now invaded by udder nudders by udder mudders. *

Crickets?

Why did the RWNJs so studiously ignore this? 

Hmmm ?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

jon_berzerk said:


> maybe because in oregon
> 
> they are not chanting fuck the police
> 
> and burning other peoples private property down




So you think people should not be allowed to "chant fuck the police" but that they should be allowed to steal tax payer's property. 

Since you hate the constitution, I'll be you just love Drumpf. 

How do you RWNJs feel about this? My bet is you'll turn yourselves into pretzels in order to excuse this too.

*BUSTED: Guess What The Bundy Militia Was Doing While They Were Not In Gunfights With The FBI*

...Finicum led Sepulvado into a computer room that was part of the wildlife refuge compound. He explained to Sepulvado that the militia planned to convert it into a “media room” to house reporters who they expected to come to the site.


That’s when it all went wrong for the militia.


Sepulvado observed militants interacting with government computers in the compound that can only be accessed with employee badges. Employee badges were also strewn about the room, laying out in plain sight, along with papers that had names and Social Security numbers on them.


Finicum immediately realized how badly he screwed the pooch by allowing the OPB reporter to see what they were doing, and for good reason. Their activities likely will fall under the Computer Fraud And Abuse Act which carries some serious penalties (fines and up to 10 years in prison) for what they were doing.


Finicum made a mad dash to pick up all the papers full of personal information and ID cards and hid them away. Shortly after that, Ryan Bundy entered the room.


Bundy emphatically denied that anything had been touched since they began their occupation of the compound: “No, we haven’t touched a single personal item. We haven’t touched any of the computers, we haven’t tried to log on — we haven’t done anything. We’re not here to hurt people. Not even the people who work here.”...


----------



## teddyearp

TheOldSchool said:


> And there is absolutely a way to compare this to Israel/Palestine, but I doubt you'll "support the cause and spirit behind" Palestinian terrorists.



OldSchool, I'll take one last trot down your deflection boulevard.  Tell me how many people the people in Oregon have stabbed, shot, thrown rocks at, or run over with vehicles.  None.  Now get off it.

For the rest, no comment on Rep. Greg Walden's address to the U.S. House?


----------



## Faun

Faun said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much of the Hammonds' private property did the government "shrink?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well since you asked, lets post the other side of the story (again):
> 
> (aa) The Harney Basin (were the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> 
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> 
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres and stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Being approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> 
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told that, “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”. 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> 
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentional diverted the water to bypassing the vast meadowlands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers that once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede and now the once thriving privately owned Silvies pains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> 
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers that still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling fact about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study that was done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed that the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed that the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced 4 times more ducks and geese than the refuge did. It also showed that the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> 
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out that the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive towards the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found that the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> 
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with "disturbing and interfering with" federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony). He spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland before he was hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.
> 
> (d) The FWS also began restricting access to upper pieces of the Hammond’s private property. In order to get to the upper part of the Hammond’s ranch they had to go on a road that went through the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge. The FWS began barricading the road and threatening the Hammonds if they drove through it. The Hammonds removed the barricades and gates and continued to use their right of access. The road was
> proven later to be owned by the County of Harney. This further enraged the BLM & FWS.
> 
> (e) Shortly after the road & water disputes, the BLM & FWS arbitrarily revoked the Hammond’s upper grazing permit without any given cause, court proceeding or court ruling. As a traditional “fence out state” Oregon requires no obligation on the part of an owner to keep his or her livestock within a fence or to maintain control over the movement of the livestock. The Hammonds intended to still use their private property for grazing. However, they were informed that a federal judge ruled, in a federal court, that the federal government did not have to observe the Oregon fence out law. “Those laws are for the people, not for them”.
> 
> (f) The Hammonds were forced to either build and maintain miles of fences or be restricted from the use of their private property. Cutting their ranch in almost half, they could not afford to fence the land, so the cattle were removed.
> 
> (g) The Hammonds experienced many years of financial hardship due to the ranch being diminished. The Hammonds had to sale their ranch and home in order to purchase another property that had enough grass to feed their cattle. This property included two grazing rights on public land. Those were also arbitrarily revoked later.
> 
> (h) The owner of the Hammond’s original ranch passed away from a heart attack and the Hammonds made a trade for the ranch back.
> 
> (i) In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries.
> 
> (j) In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.
> 
> (j1) The next day federal agents went to the Harney County Sheriff's office and filled a police report making accusation against Dwight and Steven Hammond for starting the backfire. A few days after the backfire a Range-Con from the Burns District BLM office asked Steven if he would meet him in town (Frenchglen) for coffee. Steven accepted. When leaving he was arrested by the Harney County Sheriff Dave Glerup and BLM Ranger Orr. Sheriff Glerup then ordered him to go to the ranch and bring back his father. Both Dwight and Steven were booked and on multiple Oregon State charges. The Harney County District Attorney reviewed the accusation, evidence and charges, and determined that the accusations against Dwight & Steven Hammond did not warrant prosecution and dropped all the charges.
> 
> (k) In 2011, 5 years after the police report was taken, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges, they accused them of being “Terrorist” under the Federal Antiterrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death. Dwight & Steven’s mug shots were all over the news the next week posing them as “Arsonists”. Susan Hammond (Wife & Mother) said: “I would walk down the street or go in a store, people I had known for years would take extreme measures to avoid me”.
> 
> (l) Shortly after the sentencing, Capital Press ran a story about the Hammonds. A person who identified as Greg Allum posted three comments on the article, calling the ranchers “clowns” who endangered firefighters and other people in the area while burning valuable rangeland. Greg Allum, a retired BLM heavy equipment operator, soon called Capital Press to complain that he had not made those comments and request that they be taken down from the website. Capital Press removed the comments. A search of the Internet Protocol address associated with the comments revealed it is owned by the BLM’s office in Denver, Colorado. Allum said, he is friends with the Hammonds and was alerted to the comments by neighbors who knew he wouldn’t have written them. “I feel bad for them. They lost a lot and they’re going to lose more,” Allum said of the ranchers. “They’re not terrorists. There’s this hatred in the BLM for them, and I don’t get it,” The retired BLM employee said. Jody Weil, deputy state director for communications at BLM’s Oregon office, indicated to reporters that if one of their agents falsified the comments, they would keep it private and not inform the public.
> 
> (m) In September 2006, Dwight & Susan Hammond’s home was raided. The agents informed the Hammonds that they were looking for evidence that would connect them to the fires. The Hammonds later found out that a boot print and a tire tracks were found near one of the many fires. No matching boots or tires were found in the Hammonds home or on their property. Susan Hammond (Wife) later said; " I have never felt so violated in my life. We are ranchers not criminals”.  Steven Hammond openly maintains his testimony that he started the backfire to save the winter grass from being destroyed and that the backfire ended up working so well it put out the fire entirely altogether.
> 
> (n) During the trial proceedings, Federal Court Judge Michael Hogan did not allow time for certain testimonies and evidence into the trail that would exonerate the Hammonds. Federal prosecuting attorney, Frank Papagni, was given full access for 6 days. He had ample time to use any evidence or testimony that strengthened the demonization of the Hammonds. The Hammonds attorney was only allowed 1 day. Much of the facts about the fires, land and why the Hammonds acted the way they did was not allowed into the proceedings and was not heard by the jury.  For example, Judge Hogan did not allow time for the jury to hear or review certified scientific findings that the fires improved the health and productivity of the land. Or, that the Hammonds had been subject to vindictive behavior by multiple federal agencies for years.
> 
> (o) Federal attorneys, Frank Papagni, hunted down a witness that was not mentally capable to be a credible witness. Dusty Hammond (grandson and nephew) testified that Steven told him to start a fire. He was 13 at the time and 24 when he testified (11 years later). At 24 Dusty had been suffering with mental problems for many years. He had estranged his family including his mother. Judge Hogan noted that Dusty’s memories as a 13-year-old boy were not clear or credible. He allowed the prosecution to continually use Dusty’s testimony anyway. When speaking to the Hammonds about this testimony, they understood that Dusty was manipulated and expressed nothing but love for their troubled grandson.
> 
> (p) Judge Michael Hogan & Frank Papagni tampered with the jury many times throughout the proceedings, including during the selection process. Hogan & Papagni only allowed people on the jury who did not understand the customs and culture of the ranchers or how the land is used and cared for in the Diamond Valley. All of the jurors had to drive back and forth to Pendleton everyday. Some drove more than two hours each way. By day 8 they were exhausted and expressed desires to be home. On the final day, Judge Hogan kept pushing them to make a verdict. Several times during deliberation, Judge Hogan pushed them to make a decision. Judge Hogan also would not allow the jury to hear what punishment could be imposed upon an individual that has convicted as a terrorist under the 1996 act. The jury, not understanding the customs and cultures of the area, influenced by the prosecutors for 6 straight days, very exhausted, pushed for a verdict by the judge, unaware of the ramification of convicting someone as a terrorist, made a verdict and went home.
> 
> (q) June 22, 2012, Dwight and Steven were found guilty of starting both the 2001 and the 2006 fires by the jury. However, the federal courts convicted them both as "Terrorist" under the 1996 Antiterrorism Act. Judge Hogan sentenced Dwight (Father) to 3 months in prison and Steven (son) to 12 months in federal prison. They were also stipulated to pay $400,000 to the BLM. Hogan overruling the minimum terrorist sentence, commenting that if the full five years were required it would be a violation of the 8th amendment (cruel and unusual punishment). The day of the sentencing Judge Hogan retired as a federal judge. In his honor the staff served chocolate cake in the courtroom.
> 
> (r) On January 4,, 2013, Dwight and Steven reported to prison. They fulfilled their sentences, (Dwight 3 months, Steven 12 months). Dwight was released in March 2013 and Steven, January 2014.
> (s) Sometime in June 2014, Rhonda Karges, Field Manager for the BLM, and her husband Chad Karges, Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife Refuge (which surrounds the Hammond ranch), along with attorney Frank Papagni exemplifying further vindictive behavior by filing an appeal with the 9th District Federal Court seeking Dwight’s and Steven’s return to federal prison for the entire 5 years.*
> 
> (t) In October 2015, the 9th District Court “resentenced” Dwight and Steven, requiring them to return to prison for several more years. Steven (46) has a wife and 3 children. Dwight (74) will leave Susan (74) to be alone after 55 years of marriage. If he survives, he will be 79 when he is released.
> 
> (u) During the court preceding the Hammonds were forced to grant the BLM first right of refusal. If the Hammonds ever sold their ranch they would have to sell it to the BLM.
> 
> (v) Dwight and Steven are ordered to report to federal prison again on January 4th, 2016 to begin their resentencing. Both their wives will have to manage the ranch for several years without them. To date they have paid $200,000 to the BLM, and the remainder $200,000 must be paid before the end of this year (2015). If the Hammonds cannot pay the fines to the BLM, they will be forced to sell the ranch to the BLM or face further prosecution.
> 
> Notes:
> 
> S* Rhonda Karges – Resource Field Manager for the BLM is the wife of Chad Karges Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife refuge.
> Rhonda specifically deals with all the BLM issues relating to the area in and around Hammonds property including “grazing denial”. Her husband just happens to be the person in charge of all the issues surrounding the Hammonds ranch such as “water and access”.
> 
> b* Soon after the water rights dispute the federal government influenced the State of Oregon to change their water law in favor of federal agencies. Wildlife is now considered in the State of Oregon as an accepted beneficial use for government agencies only.
> 
> k*  Being convicted as Terrorist made the Hammonds felons. They have been striped of their right to have guns. The Hammond live 53 miles from the closets town and have no practical way of defending themselves or their cattle. Several times they have watched baby calves be eaten by predators and could do nothing to prevent it.
> 
> Link:Bundy Ranch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks, but despite the verbosity, you didn't actually answer my question.
> 
> Let's try a different approach..... you show the Hammonds started with 6,000 acres in 1964 .... how many acres do they have now...?
Click to expand...

The reluctance of Teddy's response leads me to believe the answer must be zero. The government has taken none of the Hammond's land.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Luddly Neddite said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe because in oregon
> 
> they are not chanting fuck the police
> 
> and burning other peoples private property down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you think people should not be allowed to "chant fuck the police" but that they should be allowed to steal tax payer's property.
> 
> Since you hate the constitution, I'll be you just love Drumpf.
> 
> How do you RWNJs feel about this? My bet is you'll turn yourselves into pretzels in order to excuse this too.
> 
> *BUSTED: Guess What The Bundy Militia Was Doing While They Were Not In Gunfights With The FBI*
> 
> ...Finicum led Sepulvado into a computer room that was part of the wildlife refuge compound. He explained to Sepulvado that the militia planned to convert it into a “media room” to house reporters who they expected to come to the site.
> 
> 
> That’s when it all went wrong for the militia.
> 
> 
> Sepulvado observed militants interacting with government computers in the compound that can only be accessed with employee badges. Employee badges were also strewn about the room, laying out in plain sight, along with papers that had names and Social Security numbers on them.
> 
> 
> Finicum immediately realized how badly he screwed the pooch by allowing the OPB reporter to see what they were doing, and for good reason. Their activities likely will fall under the Computer Fraud And Abuse Act which carries some serious penalties (fines and up to 10 years in prison) for what they were doing.
> 
> 
> Finicum made a mad dash to pick up all the papers full of personal information and ID cards and hid them away. Shortly after that, Ryan Bundy entered the room.
> 
> 
> Bundy emphatically denied that anything had been touched since they began their occupation of the compound: “No, we haven’t touched a single personal item. We haven’t touched any of the computers, we haven’t tried to log on — we haven’t done anything. We’re not here to hurt people. Not even the people who work here.”...
Click to expand...



you lefties have made it adamantly clear 

that the bundys are not stealing  property 

that they are owners of the land as all of us are --LOL@U  you mental midget


----------



## Luddly Neddite

*Native American Tribal Leader Shuts Down Oregon’s Cry-Baby White Militia, And It’s Glorious (IMAGE/VIDEO)*


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Actually, one of the articles posted recently showed one of the crybabies offering a stolen item to a journalist as a "souvenir". 

Photos have also shown them mistreating the flag of the US.

But if you want to talk about theft -


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

jon_berzerk said:


> maybe because in oregon
> 
> they are not chanting fuck the police



*true they are only saying that if the law enforcers come they will shoot them..........a threat to law enforcement is OK though when the skins are white.......*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*So yes they are not chanting "fuck the Police" they are saying they are "going to fuck up the police" if the Police dare to enforce the law on the entitled whites.............*


----------



## charwin95

I think these dudes are getting bored start harassing and intimidating the locals to gather more supports. 

Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says
Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says - CNN.com


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Oregon Militiamen Destroy Fence At Wildlife Refuge*


----------



## koshergrl

They have maintained a cordial relationship with the police. The Indians got to the area at the same time as the whites after the Fed's pushed them off their ancestral lands. The feds cannot own land outside of dc except ports and forts. The refuge belongs to the people, and they want the federal pigs to leave. The Fed's should listen.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

* It's the Culture *


Will allowing the Bundys to destroy federal property with impunity encourage a culture of lawlessness in other members of the rural white community in the West?

— Josh Marshall


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Oregon Militiamen Destroy Fence At Wildlife Refuge*


Good.


----------



## koshergrl

The blm illegally fenced and diverted water sources, and have used fences to stop ranchers from accessing their own land. They have set fires deliberately to destroy feed and property, then used the stolen water to flood private land which they then declare as federally protected wetlands.


----------



## jc456

Luddly Neddite said:


> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody else notice the typical double standard employed by the progressives.
> 
> Remember this?
> 
> 
> 
> What did you hear from progressives then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Progressives hate public demonstrations if its not their people doing the demonstrating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ghey
Click to expand...







Image of a peaceful Ferguson protest.  LOL

Doing this to their own local folks.  too funny.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *So yes they are not chanting "fuck the Police" they are saying they are "going to fuck up the police" if the Police dare to enforce the law on the entitled whites.............*


what's the difference?




Gang map of Chicago.  Funny stuff, the politicians have this.  And do absolutely nothing.  And you're concerned with cattle grazing.


----------



## Uncensored2008

teddyearp said:


> I am starting to wonder if some of these folks sat back and applauded how the .gov handled Ruby ridge and Waco.  Thrilled over the spilling of blood.  Cheered the .gov on.  Saddened that the .gov did not escalate the same way at the Bundy ranch, and other not so publicized events since.  I really think that some of you folks like to see the .gov go and kill our own.



Most of them did. An FBI assassin murdering a woman as she held an infant is exactly the kind of world the left dreams of. 

The basic premise of the left is that your life belongs to the state, thus the state can do anything they like with or to you.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

The wing nut constitutional colostomistas are still stealing stuff in Oregon............


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> The kids and children are being used as shields by virtue of the fact they are there. When armed men threaten to use their weapons to prevent arrest and or removal they are inviting a gunfight. Injecting children into that situation can only be viewed as using the children as shields. i.e., objects to prevent offensive action against those threatened with arrest and removal. You are not that good a bullshitter, nor are the criminals at the refuge.



Camp, I assume that as a leftist you are an anti-Semite.

Here is what the dear friends and allies of the democrats do, on a regular basis







Got an photographs of Bundy et al doing this shit?


Of course not, lies, half-truths, and innuendo are the tools of the party.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> The wing nut constitutional colostomistas are still stealing stuff in Oregon............


and gangs still shooting people in Chicago:


----------



## Uncensored2008

TyroneSlothrop said:


> The wing nut constitutional colostomistas are still stealing stuff in Oregon............



What did they steal, TyronesSlurpsCum?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Dot Com said:


> its an inside-joke Rightard Uncensored2008



Yes, but not one what works in your favor.

I'm not convinced that you are not a TM sock, sploogy.


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kids and children are being used as shields by virtue of the fact they are there. When armed men threaten to use their weapons to prevent arrest and or removal they are inviting a gunfight. Injecting children into that situation can only be viewed as using the children as shields. i.e., objects to prevent offensive action against those threatened with arrest and removal. You are not that good a bullshitter, nor are the criminals at the refuge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp, I assume that as a leftist you are an anti-Semite.
> 
> Here is what the dear friends and allies of the democrats do, on a regular basis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got an photographs of Bundy et al doing this shit?
> 
> 
> Of course not, lies, half-truths, and innuendo are the tools of the party.
Click to expand...

C'mon, stay on topic and cease with attempts to deflect and change the subject.
The topic is about armed radicals taking over a government facility and stealing, using without permission and vandalizing taxpayer paid for equipment and property.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kids and children are being used as shields by virtue of the fact they are there. When armed men threaten to use their weapons to prevent arrest and or removal they are inviting a gunfight. Injecting children into that situation can only be viewed as using the children as shields. i.e., objects to prevent offensive action against those threatened with arrest and removal. You are not that good a bullshitter, nor are the criminals at the refuge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp, I assume that as a leftist you are an anti-Semite.
> 
> Here is what the dear friends and allies of the democrats do, on a regular basis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got an photographs of Bundy et al doing this shit?
> 
> 
> Of course not, lies, half-truths, and innuendo are the tools of the party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> C'mon, stay on topic and cease with attempts to deflect and change the subject.
> The topic is about armed radicals taking over a government facility and stealing, using without permission and vandalizing taxpayer paid for equipment and property.
Click to expand...

what's different than these armed radicals?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Oregon judge plans to bill Ammon Bundy up to $70,000 a day for security costs to county*

Local schools reopened Monday for the first time since Bundy and other militants seized a visitors center Jan. 2 at the Malheur National Wildlife Preserve and demanded the transfer of federally owned land to the county.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Oregon judge plans to bill Ammon Bundy up to $70,000 a day for security costs to county*
> 
> Local schools reopened Monday for the first time since Bundy and other militants seized a visitors center Jan. 2 at the Malheur National Wildlife Preserve and demanded the transfer of federally owned land to the county.


and gangs still have their way with the politicians in Chi-town:


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Uncensored2008 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> The wing nut constitutional colostomistas are still stealing stuff in Oregon............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did they steal, TyronesSlurpsCum?
Click to expand...

they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Ammon's dad has stolen millions in grazing fees,,,,,,,


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kids and children are being used as shields by virtue of the fact they are there. When armed men threaten to use their weapons to prevent arrest and or removal they are inviting a gunfight. Injecting children into that situation can only be viewed as using the children as shields. i.e., objects to prevent offensive action against those threatened with arrest and removal. You are not that good a bullshitter, nor are the criminals at the refuge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp, I assume that as a leftist you are an anti-Semite.
> 
> Here is what the dear friends and allies of the democrats do, on a regular basis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got an photographs of Bundy et al doing this shit?
> 
> 
> Of course not, lies, half-truths, and innuendo are the tools of the party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> C'mon, stay on topic and cease with attempts to deflect and change the subject.
> The topic is about armed radicals taking over a government facility and stealing, using without permission and vandalizing taxpayer paid for equipment and property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what's different than these armed radicals?
Click to expand...

The people committing crimes in Chicago are standard criminals facing. in some cases life in prisons when caught. They are not political radicals or protesters, just common criminals. Do you find it hard to comprehend simple concepts? Has it always been that way for you or did you suffer from a head injury. Seriously, something is wrong with you.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Camp said:


> The people committing crimes in Chicago are standard criminals facing. in some cases life in prisons when caught. They are not political radicals or protesters, just common criminals. Do you find it hard to comprehend simple concepts? Has it always been that way for you or did you suffer from a head injury. Seriously, something is wrong with you.



Exactly correct just common criminals in Chicago  not common criminals like in Oregon who are posing as though they were Patriots and Constitutional defenders..*.they are armed criminal bums who want to take Government lands and keep them for themselves to profit from and who call for the overthrow of the Federal government ....*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Teen chokes up at town meeting asking Bundy to leave: ‘I shouldn’t have to be scared in my own hometown’*


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kids and children are being used as shields by virtue of the fact they are there. When armed men threaten to use their weapons to prevent arrest and or removal they are inviting a gunfight. Injecting children into that situation can only be viewed as using the children as shields. i.e., objects to prevent offensive action against those threatened with arrest and removal. You are not that good a bullshitter, nor are the criminals at the refuge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp, I assume that as a leftist you are an anti-Semite.
> 
> Here is what the dear friends and allies of the democrats do, on a regular basis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got an photographs of Bundy et al doing this shit?
> 
> 
> Of course not, lies, half-truths, and innuendo are the tools of the party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> C'mon, stay on topic and cease with attempts to deflect and change the subject.
> The topic is about armed radicals taking over a government facility and stealing, using without permission and vandalizing taxpayer paid for equipment and property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what's different than these armed radicals?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The people committing crimes in Chicago are standard criminals facing. in some cases life in prisons when caught. They are not political radicals or protesters, just common criminals. Do you find it hard to comprehend simple concepts? Has it always been that way for you or did you suffer from a head injury. Seriously, something is wrong with you.
Click to expand...

what are they doing that is any different than what you're complaining about.  They hold neighborhoods hostage, close school, and pay no attention to the warning given by police.

I'd say they are exactly the same if you contend what you contend.


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am starting to wonder if some of these folks sat back and applauded how the .gov handled Ruby ridge and Waco.  Thrilled over the spilling of blood.  Cheered the .gov on.  Saddened that the .gov did not escalate the same way at the Bundy ranch, and other not so publicized events since.  I really think that some of you folks like to see the .gov go and kill our own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of them did. An FBI assassin murdering a woman as she held an infant is exactly the kind of world the left dreams of.
> 
> The basic premise of the left is that your life belongs to the state, thus the state can do anything they like with or to you.
Click to expand...

 Read the threads the Oregonian is running under their crap articles on the situation. The lovely progs across the nation and nestled close to old rocks in geography and location (in the cities of Oregon) posting crap like "They want arms, I got a bullet with their name on it" (Bundy's name, I guess). What a bunch of yahoos. And they make fun of the people who live in the country, it's pathetic.


----------



## Dot Com

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Oregon judge plans to bill Ammon Bundy up to $70,000 a day for security costs to county*
> 
> Local schools reopened Monday for the first time since Bundy and other militants seized a visitors center Jan. 2 at the Malheur National Wildlife Preserve and demanded the transfer of federally owned land to the county.


Maybe there is some justice in this great nation. They need to compensate the LE & other city services they disrupted


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Teen chokes up at town meeting asking Bundy to leave: ‘I shouldn’t have to be scared in my own hometown’*


ABC News site:


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Teen chokes up at town meeting asking Bundy to leave: ‘I shouldn’t have to be scared in my own hometown’*
> 
> 
> 
> ABC News site:
Click to expand...

Are you really too stupid to realize that your attempts to deflect away from the topic at hand simply show you do not have the intelligence, skill or factual data to defend your cause and the criminal behavior of the Bundy's and his militia, supporters and cohorts? If you were able to defend your position you would not have to divert to the nonsense your are deflecting to.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Teen chokes up at town meeting asking Bundy to leave: ‘I shouldn’t have to be scared in my own hometown’*
> 
> 
> 
> ABC News site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you really too stupid to realize that your attempts to deflect away from the topic at hand simply show you do not have the intelligence, skill or factual data to defend your cause and the criminal behavior of the Bundy's and his militia, supporters and cohorts? If you were able to defend your position you would not have to divert to the nonsense your are deflecting to.
Click to expand...

that material was presented yesterday and to date no one can give an answer as to the law they are violating.  Can they carry their weapons there?
Are they threatening anyone?  No
All this thread is is about a bunch of jealous lots who feel offended they don't have the balls to do what these guys are doing.  And I merely pointed out that gangs in most cities already do exactly what these folks are doing and you have no issue about them.  So what difference is to you since you don't live there and you have no skin in it?


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> The wing nut constitutional colostomistas are still stealing stuff in Oregon............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did they steal, TyronesSlurpsCum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
Click to expand...

 
Good. And..oh yeah...
 the community is fine with them.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Teen chokes up at town meeting asking Bundy to leave: ‘I shouldn’t have to be scared in my own hometown’*
> 
> 
> 
> ABC News site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you really too stupid to realize that your attempts to deflect away from the topic at hand simply show you do not have the intelligence, skill or factual data to defend your cause and the criminal behavior of the Bundy's and his militia, supporters and cohorts? If you were able to defend your position you would not have to divert to the nonsense your are deflecting to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that material was presented yesterday and to date no one can give an answer as to the law they are violating.  Can they carry their weapons there?
> Are they threatening anyone?  No
> All this thread is is about a bunch of jealous lots who feel offended they don't have the balls to do what these guys are doing.  And I merely pointed out that gangs in most cities already do exactly what these folks are doing and you have no issue about them.  So what difference is to you since you don't live there and you have no skin in it?
Click to expand...

Your question about what the criminals will be charged with has been addressed. The FBI and other law enforcement are refusing to divulge the information on the criminals terms. They have told the local authorities that arrest are going to be made. They are obviously committing trespassing. The are is marked with signage declaring the property closed and the area they occupy as not to be public access. Only a dope like you and your ilk would find a way to justify breaking into locked buildings and using private property like heavy equipment and trucks without specific permission by the owners, the owners being those listed on titles and registrations. Destruction of property is vandalism. Destruction of federal property is a felony.  Only a dope like you can not figure out some of the obvious charges the assholes are facing.
They are threatening the managers and employees of the owners of the property as well  law enforcement authorities than would attempt to remove or arrest them.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> The blm *illegally fenced and diverted water sources,* and have used fences to stop ranchers from accessing their own land. They have set fires deliberately to destroy feed and property, then used the stolen water to flood private land which they then declare as federally protected wetlands.


Illegally?   Why have they not been challenged in court then.  If it's illegal, easy enough to cite the law....get someone like the ACLU or some similiar Rights organization to challenge, eh?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody else notice the typical double standard employed by the progressives.
> 
> Remember this?
> 
> 
> 
> What did you hear from progressives then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Progressives hate public demonstrations if its not their people doing the demonstrating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ghey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image of a peaceful Ferguson protest.  LOL
> 
> Doing this to their own local folks.  too funny.
Click to expand...

If caught, were those who broke those windows arrested?  Or are their unlawful acts being allowed to continue?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am starting to wonder if some of these folks sat back and applauded how the .gov handled Ruby ridge and Waco.  Thrilled over the spilling of blood.  Cheered the .gov on.  Saddened that the .gov did not escalate the same way at the Bundy ranch, and other not so publicized events since.  I really think that some of you folks like to see the .gov go and kill our own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of them did. An FBI assassin murdering a woman as she held an infant is exactly the kind of world the left dreams of.
> 
> *The basic premise of the left is that your life belongs to the state*, thus the state can do anything they like with or to you.
Click to expand...

Another imaginary LW position posted by Uncensored.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Have the staplers & file cabinets been released unharmed yet?


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> The wing nut constitutional colostomistas are still stealing stuff in Oregon............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What did they steal, TyronesSlurpsCum?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good. And..oh yeah...
> the community is fine with them.
Click to expand...


Says who? Remember, you're just making shit up.


----------



## Uncensored2008

TyroneSlothrop said:


> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community



They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?



Like most Communists, you just make shit up.


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
Click to expand...

 They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skookerasbil said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody else notice the typical double standard employed by the progressives.
> 
> Remember this?
> 
> 
> 
> What did you hear from progressives then?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Progressives hate public demonstrations if its not their people doing the demonstrating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ghey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Image of a peaceful Ferguson protest.  LOL
> 
> Doing this to their own local folks.  too funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If caught, were those who broke those windows arrested?  Or are their unlawful acts being allowed to continue?
Click to expand...

no one has been arrested that I'm aware of.  enlighten me though if you know they have.  Funny how that didn't make the news.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
Click to expand...

He's actually mostly accurate: 



> The militants removed barbed wire – Bundy with only his bare hands – *and then used an excavator adorned with the Fish and Wildlife Service's logo to pluck stakes out of the ground.* The group included Bundy's brother Ryan, Jon Ritzheimer, Ryan Payne, Blaine Cooper, Jason Patrick and Robert "LaVoy" Finicum.
> 
> "That's all that's needed for cows to go through," Finicum announced after the work was done. The militants removed about 25 or 30 yards of fence.
> 
> Oregon standoff: Bundy, militants destroy fence at federal refuge



As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right. 



> The leader of a small, armed group occupying a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon said Monday he and his followers are going through government documents stored inside refuge buildings.
> 
> Leader of armed group says he, his followers are going through government files to show discrimination against ranchers - 1/11/2016 6:29:39 PM | Newser



The only part that isn't confirmed is the militia going through computers. They're definitely going through the files.


----------



## koshergrl

In Josephine County:
a pattern of BLM willfully destroying property and records:


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Teen chokes up at town meeting asking Bundy to leave: ‘I shouldn’t have to be scared in my own hometown’*
> 
> 
> 
> ABC News site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you really too stupid to realize that your attempts to deflect away from the topic at hand simply show you do not have the intelligence, skill or factual data to defend your cause and the criminal behavior of the Bundy's and his militia, supporters and cohorts? If you were able to defend your position you would not have to divert to the nonsense your are deflecting to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that material was presented yesterday and to date no one can give an answer as to the law they are violating.  Can they carry their weapons there?
> Are they threatening anyone?  No
> All this thread is is about a bunch of jealous lots who feel offended they don't have the balls to do what these guys are doing.  And I merely pointed out that gangs in most cities already do exactly what these folks are doing and you have no issue about them.  So what difference is to you since you don't live there and you have no skin in it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question about what the criminals will be charged with has been addressed. The FBI and other law enforcement are refusing to divulge the information on the criminals terms. They have told the local authorities that arrest are going to be made. They are obviously committing trespassing. The are is marked with signage declaring the property closed and the area they occupy as not to be public access. Only a dope like you and your ilk would find a way to justify breaking into locked buildings and using private property like heavy equipment and trucks without specific permission by the owners, the owners being those listed on titles and registrations. Destruction of property is vandalism. Destruction of federal property is a felony.  Only a dope like you can not figure out some of the obvious charges the assholes are facing.
> They are threatening the managers and employees of the owners of the property as well  law enforcement authorities than would attempt to remove or arrest them.
Click to expand...

I know, and makes no sense now does it.

Do you know that they broke in?


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Teen chokes up at town meeting asking Bundy to leave: ‘I shouldn’t have to be scared in my own hometown’*
> 
> 
> 
> ABC News site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you really too stupid to realize that your attempts to deflect away from the topic at hand simply show you do not have the intelligence, skill or factual data to defend your cause and the criminal behavior of the Bundy's and his militia, supporters and cohorts? If you were able to defend your position you would not have to divert to the nonsense your are deflecting to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that material was presented yesterday and to date no one can give an answer as to the law they are violating.  Can they carry their weapons there?
> Are they threatening anyone?  No
> All this thread is is about a bunch of jealous lots who feel offended they don't have the balls to do what these guys are doing.  And I merely pointed out that gangs in most cities already do exactly what these folks are doing and you have no issue about them.  So what difference is to you since you don't live there and you have no skin in it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question about what the criminals will be charged with has been addressed. The FBI and other law enforcement are refusing to divulge the information on the criminals terms. They have told the local authorities that arrest are going to be made. They are obviously committing trespassing. The are is marked with signage declaring the property closed and the area they occupy as not to be public access. Only a dope like you and your ilk would find a way to justify breaking into locked buildings and using private property like heavy equipment and trucks without specific permission by the owners, the owners being those listed on titles and registrations. Destruction of property is vandalism. Destruction of federal property is a felony.  Only a dope like you can not figure out some of the obvious charges the assholes are facing.
> They are threatening the managers and employees of the owners of the property as well  law enforcement authorities than would attempt to remove or arrest them.
Click to expand...

 

Psst...it's not private property.

Only a dope like you doesn't understand that.

They also haven't threatened any managers or employees.

Feds can't own any land outside of dc, aside from forts and ports. The so-called wildlife refuge is neither. The people own it.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Feds can't own any land outside of dc, aside from forts and ports. The so-called wildlife refuge is neither. The people own it.



They aren't 'the people'. And yes, the feds can own land outside DC. 



> The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
> 
> Article 4, Section 3



With the USSC unanimously affirming the same. 

This is just more sovereign citizen horseshit by folks who neither understand the constitution nor this country.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feds can't own any land outside of dc, aside from forts and ports. The so-called wildlife refuge is neither. The people own it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't 'the people'. And yes, the feds can own land outside DC. The USSC has affirmed it unanimously.
> 
> This is just more sovereign citizen horseshit by folks who neither understand the constitution nor this country.
Click to expand...

why aren't they the people, they live there, they use it, how is it not them that are the people?  holy crap batman.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feds can't own any land outside of dc, aside from forts and ports. The so-called wildlife refuge is neither. The people own it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't 'the people'. And yes, the feds can own land outside DC. The USSC has affirmed it unanimously.
> 
> This is just more sovereign citizen horseshit by folks who neither understand the constitution nor this country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why aren't they the people, they live there, they use it, how is it not them that are the people?  holy crap batman.
Click to expand...


They don't live there. Ammon Bundy is from Arizona. Which, if you check a map, isn't Oregon.

And we didn't elect them to enact any policy. They aren't 'the people'. They're just some guys asking for snacks.

The constitution unambiguously empowers Congress to set the rules over Federal property. Not Ammon Bundy.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kids and children are being used as shields by virtue of the fact they are there. When armed men threaten to use their weapons to prevent arrest and or removal they are inviting a gunfight. Injecting children into that situation can only be viewed as using the children as shields. i.e., objects to prevent offensive action against those threatened with arrest and removal. You are not that good a bullshitter, nor are the criminals at the refuge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp, *I assume that as a leftist you are an anti-Semite.*
> 
> Here is what the dear friends and allies of the democrats do, on a regular basis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got an photographs of Bundy et al doing this shit?
> 
> 
> Of course not, lies, half-truths, and innuendo are the tools of the party.
Click to expand...

Another imaginary position made up by Uncensored so he can attack it. Same as tilting at windmills.  A regular Don Quixote is our Uncensored.


----------



## Skylar

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The kids and children are being used as shields by virtue of the fact they are there. When armed men threaten to use their weapons to prevent arrest and or removal they are inviting a gunfight. Injecting children into that situation can only be viewed as using the children as shields. i.e., objects to prevent offensive action against those threatened with arrest and removal. You are not that good a bullshitter, nor are the criminals at the refuge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp, *I assume that as a leftist you are an anti-Semite.*
> 
> Here is what the dear friends and allies of the democrats do, on a regular basis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got an photographs of Bundy et al doing this shit?
> 
> 
> Of course not, lies, half-truths, and innuendo are the tools of the party.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another imaginary position made up by Uncensored so he can attack it.
Click to expand...


If not the for the strawman fallacy, Uncen's posts would be little more than punctuation.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feds can't own any land outside of dc, aside from forts and ports. The so-called wildlife refuge is neither. The people own it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't 'the people'. And yes, the feds can own land outside DC. The USSC has affirmed it unanimously.
> 
> This is just more sovereign citizen horseshit by folks who neither understand the constitution nor this country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why aren't they the people, they live there, they use it, how is it not them that are the people?  holy crap batman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't live there. Ammon Bundy is from Arizona. Which, if you check a map, isn't Oregon.
> 
> And we didn't elect them to enact any policy. They aren't 'the people'. They're just some guys asking for snacks.
> 
> The constitution unambiguously empowers Congress to set the rules over Federal property. Not Ammon Bundy.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if he lives there or not, he is still a US citizen correct?  hmm last I looked Arizona is in the US. He is still  the people.


----------



## jc456

Dot Com said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SwimExpert said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be real terrorists they will have to start hanging the enemy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the 9-11 hijackers don't count?
> 
> I believe that what you meant to say was that in order to be terrorism they have to be brown skinned with funny sounding names, amiright?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In all seriousness, terrorists who don't actually hurt anyone aren't terrorists no matter what color they are.  Unless there are bodies and blood, they aren't exactly terrifying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought you were a dog groomer? What exactly makes you an expert on this???
> 
> As to the OP, the occupiers need to be made an example of
Click to expand...

I thought you were a libturd?  Oh, you are! what qualifies you?


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Feds can't own any land outside of dc, aside from forts and ports. The so-called wildlife refuge is neither. The people own it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't 'the people'. And yes, the feds can own land outside DC. The USSC has affirmed it unanimously.
> 
> This is just more sovereign citizen horseshit by folks who neither understand the constitution nor this country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why aren't they the people, they live there, they use it, how is it not them that are the people?  holy crap batman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They don't live there. Ammon Bundy is from Arizona. Which, if you check a map, isn't Oregon.
> 
> And we didn't elect them to enact any policy. They aren't 'the people'. They're just some guys asking for snacks.
> 
> The constitution unambiguously empowers Congress to set the rules over Federal property. Not Ammon Bundy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It doesn't matter if he lives there or not, he is still a US citizen correct?  hmm last I looked Arizona is in the US. He is still  the people.
Click to expand...


Nope. He's a person. The authority to set rules for Federal property is granted to congress by the Constitution. Not to Ammon Bundy. 

You're spouting Sovereign Citizen horseshit. And no, any chump doesn't have total authority over all federal land.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Teen chokes up at town meeting asking Bundy to leave: ‘I shouldn’t have to be scared in my own hometown’*
> 
> 
> 
> ABC News site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you really too stupid to realize that your attempts to deflect away from the topic at hand simply show you do not have the intelligence, skill or factual data to defend your cause and the criminal behavior of the Bundy's and his militia, supporters and cohorts? If you were able to defend your position you would not have to divert to the nonsense your are deflecting to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that material was presented yesterday and to date no one can give an answer as to the law they are violating.  Can they carry their weapons there?
> Are they threatening anyone?  No
> All this thread is is about a bunch of jealous lots who feel offended they don't have the balls to do what these guys are doing.  And I merely pointed out that gangs in most cities already do exactly what these folks are doing and you have no issue about them.  So what difference is to you since you don't live there and you have no skin in it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question about what the criminals will be charged with has been addressed. The FBI and other law enforcement are refusing to divulge the information on the criminals terms. They have told the local authorities that arrest are going to be made. They are obviously committing trespassing. The are is marked with signage declaring the property closed and the area they occupy as not to be public access. Only a dope like you and your ilk would find a way to justify breaking into locked buildings and using private property like heavy equipment and trucks without specific permission by the owners, the owners being those listed on titles and registrations. Destruction of property is vandalism. Destruction of federal property is a felony.  Only a dope like you can not figure out some of the obvious charges the assholes are facing.
> They are threatening the managers and employees of the owners of the property as well  law enforcement authorities than would attempt to remove or arrest them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Psst...it's not private property.
> 
> Only a dope like you doesn't understand that.
> 
> They also haven't threatened any managers or employees.
> 
> Feds can't own any land outside of dc, aside from forts and ports. The so-called wildlife refuge is neither. The people own it.
Click to expand...

First, it has the legal standing of private property as the "private" technical owner as specified in The National Wildlife System Administration passed by Congress in 1966. Before that is was the property of the Department of Interior. 

Only a dope like you doesn't understand that.

They have threatened managers and employees by being armed and announcing they will not leave the property without an altercation, by ignoring posted signs while armed and acting in a military posture.

The constitutional interpretation that is currently in force for government ownership of lands is Article lV  Section 3  Claus 2.
Despite arguments and debated to the contrary, unless or until the debate comes to the SCOTUS for judgement, that Article, section and clause is the Constitutional ruling and confirmation of who owns public lands and right for the US Government to own such land. Despite amateur self-proclaimed Constitutional experts, the SCOTUS makes the decision and they have decided that the government has a constitutional right to own the lands they claim to own.


----------



## Skylar

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ABC News site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you really too stupid to realize that your attempts to deflect away from the topic at hand simply show you do not have the intelligence, skill or factual data to defend your cause and the criminal behavior of the Bundy's and his militia, supporters and cohorts? If you were able to defend your position you would not have to divert to the nonsense your are deflecting to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that material was presented yesterday and to date no one can give an answer as to the law they are violating.  Can they carry their weapons there?
> Are they threatening anyone?  No
> All this thread is is about a bunch of jealous lots who feel offended they don't have the balls to do what these guys are doing.  And I merely pointed out that gangs in most cities already do exactly what these folks are doing and you have no issue about them.  So what difference is to you since you don't live there and you have no skin in it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your question about what the criminals will be charged with has been addressed. The FBI and other law enforcement are refusing to divulge the information on the criminals terms. They have told the local authorities that arrest are going to be made. They are obviously committing trespassing. The are is marked with signage declaring the property closed and the area they occupy as not to be public access. Only a dope like you and your ilk would find a way to justify breaking into locked buildings and using private property like heavy equipment and trucks without specific permission by the owners, the owners being those listed on titles and registrations. Destruction of property is vandalism. Destruction of federal property is a felony.  Only a dope like you can not figure out some of the obvious charges the assholes are facing.
> They are threatening the managers and employees of the owners of the property as well  law enforcement authorities than would attempt to remove or arrest them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Psst...it's not private property.
> 
> Only a dope like you doesn't understand that.
> 
> They also haven't threatened any managers or employees.
> 
> Feds can't own any land outside of dc, aside from forts and ports. The so-called wildlife refuge is neither. The people own it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First, it has the legal standing of private property as the "private" technical owner as specified in The National Wildlife System Administration passed by Congress in 1966.
> 
> Only a dope like you doesn't understand that.
> 
> They have threatened managers and employees by being armed and announcing they will not leave the property without an altercation, by ignoring posted signs while armed and acting in a military posture.
> 
> The constitutional interpretation that is currently in force for government ownership of lands is Article lV  Section 3  Claus 2.
> Despite arguments and debated to the contrary, unless or until the debate comes to the SCOTUS for judgement, that Article, section and clause is the Constitutional ruling and confirmation of who owns public lands and right for the US Government to own such land. Despite amateur self-proclaimed Constitutional experts, the SCOTUS makes the decision and they have decided that the government has a constitutional right to own the lands they claim to own.
Click to expand...


The Supreme Court already ruled in 1976. _Kleppe v. New Mexico_

This is long established precedent based on rock solid language of the constitution. Ammon and his ilk are offering a sovereign citizen argument where they get to decide unilaterally what the constitution is supposed to mean. And they get to enact their own policy and rules.

_Nope. _


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Another imaginary LW position posted by Uncensored.



Imaginary..






Does it hurt to be that stupid? Actual, physical pain?


----------



## Uncensored2008

koshergrl said:


> They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.



Government is the god of the left.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He's actually mostly accurate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The militants removed barbed wire – Bundy with only his bare hands – *and then used an excavator adorned with the Fish and Wildlife Service's logo to pluck stakes out of the ground.* The group included Bundy's brother Ryan, Jon Ritzheimer, Ryan Payne, Blaine Cooper, Jason Patrick and Robert "LaVoy" Finicum.
> 
> "That's all that's needed for cows to go through," Finicum announced after the work was done. The militants removed about 25 or 30 yards of fence.
> 
> Oregon standoff: Bundy, militants destroy fence at federal refuge
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The leader of a small, armed group occupying a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon said Monday he and his followers are going through government documents stored inside refuge buildings.
> 
> Leader of armed group says he, his followers are going through government files to show discrimination against ranchers - 1/11/2016 6:29:39 PM | Newser
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only part that isn't confirmed is the militia going through computers. They're definitely going through the files.
Click to expand...

 
Good.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Another imaginary position made up by Uncensored so he can attack it. Same as tilting at windmills.  A regular Don Quixote is our Uncensored.



LOL

You are a fucking retard.

If you can't follow the conversation, have one of your fellow Communist explain what is going on....


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> If not the for the strawman fallacy, Uncen's posts would be little more than punctuation.



Add "straw man fallacy" to the long list of things Skylar has no grasp of....


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another imaginary LW position posted by Uncensored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imaginary..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it hurt to be that stupid? Actual, physical pain?
Click to expand...

That is a photo taken during the Cambodian civil war fought with assistance from the Vietnam military. What does this discussion have to do with the Cambodian civil war?


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> If not the for the strawman fallacy, Uncen's posts would be little more than punctuation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Add "straw man fallacy" to the long list of things Skylar has no grasp of....
Click to expand...


You're refuting positions no one here has advocated. Its your bread and butter.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> He's actually mostly accurate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The militants removed barbed wire – Bundy with only his bare hands – *and then used an excavator adorned with the Fish and Wildlife Service's logo to pluck stakes out of the ground.* The group included Bundy's brother Ryan, Jon Ritzheimer, Ryan Payne, Blaine Cooper, Jason Patrick and Robert "LaVoy" Finicum.
> 
> "That's all that's needed for cows to go through," Finicum announced after the work was done. The militants removed about 25 or 30 yards of fence.
> 
> Oregon standoff: Bundy, militants destroy fence at federal refuge
Click to expand...


Nonsense; just like you he is patently dishonest.

No computer or heavy equipment was stolen. 

He took down a fence, which might rank as "vandalism."



> As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The leader of a small, armed group occupying a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon said Monday he and his followers are going through government documents stored inside refuge buildings.
> 
> Leader of armed group says he, his followers are going through government files to show discrimination against ranchers - 1/11/2016 6:29:39 PM | Newser
Click to expand...


And by "right" you mean "lied through his teeth." :thup;

TyroneSlurpsCum claimed that the militia "stole computers." Looking through files is not "stealing computers," but you're willing to continue the lie.



> The only part that isn't confirmed is the militia going through computers. They're definitely going through the files.



That and the claim they stole heavy and equipment and computers. Party above all with you, so lying is for the greater good.....


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> That is a photo taken during the Cambodian civil war fought with assistance from the Vietnam military. What does this discussion have to do with the Cambodian civil war?



Statement: Leftists view people as property of the state.

The picture says it all about the contempt that the Communists in Cambodia had for the people, just refuse to be disposed of as the state saw fit.

Seriously, I don't expect Bode to be able to follow along, she is rather stupid after all, but you have the brains to grasp the topic...


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> You're refuting positions no one here has advocated. Its your bread and butter.



You mean like "Bundy stole computers and heavy equipment?"


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's actually mostly accurate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The militants removed barbed wire – Bundy with only his bare hands – *and then used an excavator adorned with the Fish and Wildlife Service's logo to pluck stakes out of the ground.* The group included Bundy's brother Ryan, Jon Ritzheimer, Ryan Payne, Blaine Cooper, Jason Patrick and Robert "LaVoy" Finicum.
> 
> "That's all that's needed for cows to go through," Finicum announced after the work was done. The militants removed about 25 or 30 yards of fence.
> 
> Oregon standoff: Bundy, militants destroy fence at federal refuge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense; just like you he is patently dishonest.
> 
> No computer or heavy equipment was stolen.
Click to expand...


The files were taken, the evacuator was taken. The owner no longer possesses either, while the seditious conspirators are using both. Behind armed guard.

That's theft. In the case of files, that's breaking and entering. Then burglary.

The crimes are just stacking up.


> TyroneSlurpsCum claimed that the militia "stole computers." Looking through files is not "stealing computers," but you're willing to continue the lie.



They are in possession of the computers. Not the owners. And like the evacuator, they're in possession of the seditious conspirators, behind armed guards, threatening violence if anyone tries to remove the conspirators.

That's theft. With going through the files is burglary. These criminals just keep digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves.


----------



## bodecea

Grampa Murked U said:


> Have the staplers & file cabinets been released unharmed yet?


In an "abandoned" building?


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're refuting positions no one here has advocated. Its your bread and butter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like "Bundy stole computers and heavy equipment?"
Click to expand...


Like your random accusations of anti-semitism.


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> He's actually mostly accurate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The militants removed barbed wire – Bundy with only his bare hands – *and then used an excavator adorned with the Fish and Wildlife Service's logo to pluck stakes out of the ground.* The group included Bundy's brother Ryan, Jon Ritzheimer, Ryan Payne, Blaine Cooper, Jason Patrick and Robert "LaVoy" Finicum.
> 
> "That's all that's needed for cows to go through," Finicum announced after the work was done. The militants removed about 25 or 30 yards of fence.
> 
> Oregon standoff: Bundy, militants destroy fence at federal refuge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense; just like you he is patently dishonest.
> 
> No computer or heavy equipment was stolen.
> 
> He took down a fence, which might rank as "vandalism."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The leader of a small, armed group occupying a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon said Monday he and his followers are going through government documents stored inside refuge buildings.
> 
> Leader of armed group says he, his followers are going through government files to show discrimination against ranchers - 1/11/2016 6:29:39 PM | Newser
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And by "right" you mean "lied through his teeth." :thup;
> 
> TyroneSlurpsCum claimed that the militia "stole computers." Looking through files is not "stealing computers," but you're willing to continue the lie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only part that isn't confirmed is the militia going through computers. They're definitely going through the files.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That and the claim they stole heavy and equipment and computers. Party above all with you, so lying is for the greater good.....
Click to expand...

Do yourself a favor and look up the legal terms of conversion and misappropriation. Unless you enjoy making a fool of yourself, in that case, carry on.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> Like your random accusations of anti-semitism.



Random? Peruse ANY thread on Israel or on terrorists. The left hates Jews and loves Muslims, that is a fact.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like your random accusations of anti-semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Random? Peruse ANY thread on Israel or on terrorists. The left hates Jews and loves Muslims, that is a fact.
Click to expand...


By that logic, right wingers hate black people. As look at any thread on Obama. However, if we're using a rational standard, simply criticizing a policy of a given government doesn't denote hatred of anyone or anything associated with that government. 

It also had nothing to do with this thread. It was just another silly strawman.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have the staplers & file cabinets been released unharmed yet?
> 
> 
> 
> In an "abandoned" building?
Click to expand...

how can it be abandoned if there are files and computers?  Seems like a legit question.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> Do yourself a favor and look up the legal terms of conversion and misappropriation. Unless you enjoy making a fool of yourself, in that case, carry on.



Speaking of straw man fallacies...

{Theft

_1a_ :  the act of stealing; _specifically_ :  the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it_b_ :  an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property}
Definition of THEFT


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Source: *Oregon Live (Oregonian)*

Residents of sparsely populated Harney County on Monday night told armed outsiders to go home as they expressed fears about personal safety. At a community meeting, they also acknowledged deep rifts within the community, brought to the surface by the standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

Read more: Oregon standoff: Harney County residents put disagreements aside, ask Bundy to leave 


deep rifts within the community, brought to the surface by the standoff

This is what happens when you let crap like this go on for too long. It may be a long time before this small community heals from this. 

There is a video at the link of a high school girl crying while attempting to address a public meeting, saying "I shouldn't have to be scared in my own hometown". 

I hope Bundy honors his word and accepts that they need to leave...NOW!


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like your random accusations of anti-semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Random? Peruse ANY thread on Israel or on terrorists. The left hates Jews and loves Muslims, that is a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By that logic, right wingers hate black people. As look at any thread on Obama. However, if we're using a rational standard, simply criticizing a policy of a given government doesn't denote hatred of anyone or anything associated with that government.
> 
> It also had nothing to do with this thread. It was just another silly strawman.
Click to expand...

dude, that is stupid.  did you teach yourself that move or did you learn on a pay per view libturd documentary?  holy crap, because we have a bad black president and don't like the presidents executive orders, we hate blacks.  Hmmm nice line you got drawn there.  hahahahahahahahahaahaha what a libturd tool.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.
Click to expand...

Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?   That would be a big surprise to all those government workers who have been prosecuted for "stealing" government property over the years.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> By that logic, right wingers hate black people. As look at any thread on Obama. However, if we're using a rational standard, simply criticizing a policy of a given government doesn't denote hatred of anyone or anything associated with that government.
> 
> It also had nothing to do with this thread. It was just another silly strawman.



It had everything to do with the thread, your fellow Communist lied that Bundy et al are terrorists using human shields. I showed what REAL terrorist using human shields are - the democrats beloved Hamas.

Try again.

Oh, and "straw man" is two words, you'll look less ignorant if you keep that in mind.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?   That would be a big surprise to all those government workers who have been prosecuted for "stealing" government property over the years.
Click to expand...

isn't there something called the freedom of information act?  I mean, do you know what country you live in?


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another imaginary LW position posted by Uncensored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imaginary..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it hurt to be that stupid? Actual, physical pain?
Click to expand...

Don Quixote posts again.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> By that logic, right wingers hate black people. As look at any thread on Obama. However, if we're using a rational standard, simply criticizing a policy of a given government doesn't denote hatred of anyone or anything associated with that government.
> 
> It also had nothing to do with this thread. It was just another silly strawman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It had everything to do with the thread, *your fellow Communist *lied that Bundy et al are terrorists using human shields. I showed what REAL terrorist using human shields are - the democrats beloved Hamas.
> 
> Try again.
> 
> Oh, and "straw man" is two words, you'll look less ignorant if you keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

Don Quixote tilts again.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like your random accusations of anti-semitism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Random? Peruse ANY thread on Israel or on terrorists. The left hates Jews and loves Muslims, that is a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By that logic, right wingers hate black people. As look at any thread on Obama. However, if we're using a rational standard, simply criticizing a policy of a given government doesn't denote hatred of anyone or anything associated with that government.
> 
> It also had nothing to do with this thread. It was just another silly strawman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, that is stupid.  did you teach yourself that move or did you learn on a pay per view libturd documentary?  holy crap, because we have a bad black president and don't like the presidents executive orders, we hate blacks.  Hmmm nice line you got drawn there.  hahahahahahahahahaahaha what a libturd tool.
Click to expand...


Oh, insisting that any criticism of Israel is anti-semitism or any criticism of Obama is racism is grotesquely stupid. If  we're using a rational standard, simply criticizing a policy of a given government doesn't denote hatred of anyone or anything associated with that government.

Which is what makes the claims of anti-semitism so laughably random. It has nothing to do with this thread. And is a fallacy to boot.


----------



## Uncensored2008

jc456 said:


> how can it be abandoned if there are files and computers?  Seems like a legit question.



According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files. Since the building has no power, I do wonder how they are doing this?


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do yourself a favor and look up the legal terms of conversion and misappropriation. Unless you enjoy making a fool of yourself, in that case, carry on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of straw man fallacies...
> 
> {Theft
> 
> _1a_ :  the act of stealing; _specifically_ :  the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it_b_ :  an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property}
> Definition of THEFT
Click to expand...


And they've taken property. Which is the very definition of theft.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> Don Quixote tilts again.



Poor little drooling retard, becomes so upset when I point out that she's a Communist.

Seriously, what is it you think you're promoting?  Laissez Faire Capitalism?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> [
> And they've taken property. Which is the very definition of theft.



What property? Specifically?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?   That would be a big surprise to all those government workers who have been prosecuted for "stealing" government property over the years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> isn't there something called the freedom of information act?  I mean, do you know what country you live in?
Click to expand...

Oh...the "freedom of information act" applies to taken government property?  All those guys I used to write charges up on in the Navy for stealing government property would be surprised that all they needed to do was apply the Freedom of Information Act for all that stuff.


----------



## Camp

Uncensored2008 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how can it be abandoned if there are files and computers?  Seems like a legit question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files. Since the building has no power, I do wonder how they are doing this?
Click to expand...

When did the power get turned off?


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how can it be abandoned if there are files and computers?  Seems like a legit question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files. Since the building has no power, I do wonder how they are doing this?
Click to expand...


Nope. According to me, the Bundy group is going through files. Whether or not they're going through computer files is still undefined. As I've already said and you've quoted me saying.

Meaning that you're intentionally lying, and attributing to me a position I haven't adopted. Which is a strawman.

The fact that seditious conspirators have seized and taken possession of the computers, the evacutor and the files isn't in dispute. The conspirators have already admitted to all of it.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?   That would be a big surprise to all those government workers who have been prosecuted for "stealing" government property over the years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> isn't there something called the freedom of information act?  I mean, do you know what country you live in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh...the "freedom of information act" applies to taken government property?  All those guys I used to write charges up on in the Navy for stealing government property would be surprised that all they needed to do was apply the Freedom of Information Act for all that stuff.
Click to expand...

ask the police department in Chicago.  mayor Emmanuel is having a riot with that one now,  oh, I mean protest.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> And they've taken property. Which is the very definition of theft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What property? Specifically?
Click to expand...


For the third time.....and do pay attention this time, please.......the computers, the evacuator and the files.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> how can it be abandoned if there are files and computers?  Seems like a legit question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files. Since the building has no power, I do wonder how they are doing this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. According to me, the Bundy group is going through files. Whether or not they're going through computer files is still undefined. As I've already said and you've quoted me saying.
> 
> Meaning that you're intentionally lying, and attributing to me a position I haven't adopted. Which is a strawman.
> 
> The fact that seditious conspirators have seized and taken possession of the computers, the evacutor and the files isn't in dispute. The conspirators have already admitted to all of it.
Click to expand...

so where do you suppose the files are kept?  maybe file cabinets?  duh!!!!!!!! what a fkn boob you are.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Camp said:


> When did the power get turned off?



When did it get turned on? This is an empty facility we are talking about.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?   That would be a big surprise to all those government workers who have been prosecuted for "stealing" government property over the years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> isn't there something called the freedom of information act?  I mean, do you know what country you live in?
Click to expand...


Can you show me anywhere in the Freedom of Information Act where anyone can just seize a federal building and start looting its files.

Because I'm pretty sure you've imagined it.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don Quixote tilts again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor little drooling retard, becomes so upset when I point out that she's* a Communist.*
> 
> Seriously, what is it you think you're promoting?  Laissez Faire Capitalism?
Click to expand...

Don Quixote tilts again.

“Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them.”


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the power get turned off?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did it get turned on? This is an empty facility we are talking about.
Click to expand...

If it is empty, that means there's nothing in there.   Doesn't seem to be the facts, does it?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> And they've taken property. Which is the very definition of theft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What property? Specifically?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the third time.....and do pay attention this time, please.......the computers, the evacuator and the files.
Click to expand...

they haven't stolen anything yet, they're still in the building correct?  I think one needs to leave with the materials to be burglary don't you think?  And if the doors were open it isn't breaking and entering either.  So dude so far you got jack.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> When did the power get turned off?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When did it get turned on? This is an empty facility we are talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it is empty, that means there's nothing in there.   Doesn't seem to be the facts, does it?
Click to expand...

well if it's empty they can't be going through files. Make up my mind already.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> For the third time.....and do pay attention this time, please.......the computers, the evacuator and the files.



You keep telling this lie, but there is no evidence that computes have been taken from the facility. Nor even that any files were accessed. Do you think that when the BLM people left, they put their passwords on the machines so that Bundy would be able to log in? 

Not only is what you claim founded on nothing, it is absurd.

And they took the evacuator?  Are you REALLY going to tell that whopper? Where did they take it? Did they sell it?


----------



## Seawytch

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> And they've taken property. Which is the very definition of theft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What property? Specifically?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the third time.....and do pay attention this time, please.......the computers, the evacuator and the files.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they haven't stolen anything yet, they're still in the building correct?  I think one needs to leave with the materials to be burglary don't you think?  And if the doors were open it isn't breaking and entering either.  So dude so far you got jack.
Click to expand...


Go into a post office and start moving around the stamp machine, maybe block the door with it...we'll see what you get charged with, shall we?


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> And they've taken property. Which is the very definition of theft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What property? Specifically?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the third time.....and do pay attention this time, please.......the computers, the evacuator and the files.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they haven't stolen anything yet, they're still in the building correct?  I think one needs to leave with the materials to be burglary don't you think?  And if the doors were open it isn't breaking and entering either.  So dude so far you got jack.
Click to expand...


Of course they have. They've taken possession of all three and denied possession of all three to their rightful owners. That's theft. 

And the doors weren't open. 

So far we've got breaking and entering, seditious conspiracy, burglary, theft, destruction of property, and trespass. 

They're looking at 30 years or potential time in jail so far. And they're just getting started.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?   That would be a big surprise to all those government workers who have been prosecuted for "stealing" government property over the years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> isn't there something called the freedom of information act?  I mean, do you know what country you live in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show me anywhere in the Freedom of Information Act where anyone can just seize a federal building and start looting its files.
> 
> Because I'm pretty sure you've imagined it.
Click to expand...

seize a federal building?  how did they do that? if it's abandoned then there are no files, so your point is useless.


----------



## jc456

Seawytch said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> And they've taken property. Which is the very definition of theft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What property? Specifically?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the third time.....and do pay attention this time, please.......the computers, the evacuator and the files.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they haven't stolen anything yet, they're still in the building correct?  I think one needs to leave with the materials to be burglary don't you think?  And if the doors were open it isn't breaking and entering either.  So dude so far you got jack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go into a post office and start moving around the stamp machine, maybe block the door with it...we'll see what you get charged with, shall we?
Click to expand...

why would I want to do that?  I have nothing against the post office nor do I care the mail that goes through there it isn't theirs.


----------



## Skylar

Ouch. The Feds do not take kindly to the theft of their records:

*18 U.S.C. § 641 : US Code - Section 641: Public money, property or records*

Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to his
    use or the use of another, or without authority, sells, conveys or
    disposes of any record, voucher, money, or thing of value of the
    United States or of any department or agency thereof, or any
    property made or being made under contract for the United States or
    any department or agency thereof; or
      Whoever receives, conceals, or retains the same with intent to
    convert it to his use or gain, knowing it to have been embezzled,
    stolen, purloined or converted - 
      Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten
    years, or both; but if the value of such property in the aggregate,
    combining amounts from all the counts for which the defendant is
    convicted in a single case, does not exceed the sum of $1,000, he
    shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one
    year, or both.


A year to 10 years depending on what value the government applies to the records.


----------



## bodecea

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> And they've taken property. Which is the very definition of theft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What property? Specifically?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the third time.....and do pay attention this time, please.......the computers, the evacuator and the files.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they haven't stolen anything yet, they're still in the building correct?  I think one needs to leave with the materials to be burglary don't you think?  And if the doors were open it isn't breaking and entering either.  So dude so far you got jack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they have. They've taken possession of all three and denied possession of all three to their rightful owners. That's theft.
> 
> And the doors weren't open.
> 
> So far we've got breaking and entering, seditious conspiracy, burglary, theft, destruction of property, and trespass.
> 
> They're looking at 30 years or potential time in jail so far. And they're just getting started.
Click to expand...

Personally....I'd like to see they take the advice of those on this thread saying what they are doing isn't against the law..............and try it on another piece of federal property......Camp Pendleton.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> And they've taken property. Which is the very definition of theft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What property? Specifically?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the third time.....and do pay attention this time, please.......the computers, the evacuator and the files.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they haven't stolen anything yet, they're still in the building correct?  I think one needs to leave with the materials to be burglary don't you think?  And if the doors were open it isn't breaking and entering either.  So dude so far you got jack.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course they have. They've taken possession of all three and denied possession of all three to their rightful owners. That's theft.
> 
> And the doors weren't open.
> 
> So far we've got breaking and entering, seditious conspiracy, burglary, theft, destruction of property, and trespass.
> 
> They're looking at 30 years or potential time in jail so far. And they're just getting started.
Click to expand...

you know this?  you've seen the fbi reports?  really?  I think you have your head buried somewhere and in the air isn't the place I'm thinking of.  You know shit at this moment and you are babbling like a brook.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> Nope. According to me, the Bundy group is going through files. Whether or not they're going through computer files is still undefined. As I've already said and you've quoted me saying.
> 
> Meaning that you're intentionally lying, and attributing to me a position I haven't adopted. Which is a strawman.
> 
> The fact that seditious conspirators have seized and taken possession of the computers, the evacutor and the files isn't in dispute. The conspirators have already admitted to all of it.



Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?

Nah, that was you. Hey, you're a leftist, lying is what you do.

Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"

This is the type of equipment (a skip loader) that Skylar is lying that Bundy "stole."
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Did he put it in his back pocket and smuggle it out?

LOL, nah, you're just lying, as always..


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> nbc.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n-491366


goes nowhere.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
> 
> 
> 
> They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?   That would be a big surprise to all those government workers who have been prosecuted for "stealing" government property over the years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> isn't there something called the freedom of information act?  I mean, do you know what country you live in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show me anywhere in the Freedom of Information Act where anyone can just seize a federal building and start looting its files.
> 
> Because I'm pretty sure you've imagined it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> seize a federal building?  how did they do that? if it's abandoned then there are no files, so your point is useless.
Click to expand...


Who says the buidling as 'abandoned'? By your standards, every time you leave your house its been 'abandoned' and thus anyone can just move in.

The words you're looking for are 'went home for the weekend'. 

The only one saying its been 'abandoned' is you citing yourself. Which is legally meaningless.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> [
> If it is empty, that means there's nothing in there.   Doesn't seem to be the facts, does it?



So smart girl, did Bundy take hostages? Did he drive the BLM out at gun point?

Hmmmm?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> they have stolen files information computers they are tearing down fences they are taking heavy equipment and using it to tear up fences ....oh yeah ...they have closed down schools for a week....they have stolen the domestic tranquility of the community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've stolen computers and heavy equipment?
> 
> 
> 
> Like most Communists, you just make shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?   That would be a big surprise to all those government workers who have been prosecuted for "stealing" government property over the years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> isn't there something called the freedom of information act?  I mean, do you know what country you live in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show me anywhere in the Freedom of Information Act where anyone can just seize a federal building and start looting its files.
> 
> Because I'm pretty sure you've imagined it.
Click to expand...

I did not imagine the freedom of information act:  here link:
Oregon Freedom of Information - State Freedom of Information Acts - Freedom of Information Acts

excerpt
The Oregon Public Records Law is a series of laws designed to guarantee that the public has access to public records of government bodies at all levels in Oregon.  The law was first enacted in 1973.  The goal of the legislation is “…to encourage state agencies to inform the public, the Legislative Assembly and the Governor of matters of public interest and concern.  It is further the policy of this state to guarantee to its citizens the right to know about the activities of their government, to benefit from the information developed by state agencies at public expense and to enjoy equal access to the information services of state agencies.”  Chapter 192 of the Oregon code defines the law.
The Oregon Public Meetings Law provides the methods by which public meetings are conducted.  The statement of purpose of the Open Meetings Act states, “the Oregon form of government requires an informed public aware of the deliberations and decisions of governing bodies and the information upon which such decisions were made.  It is the intent of ORS 192.610 to 192.690 that decisions of governing bodies be arrived at openly.”
- See more at: Oregon Freedom of Information - State Freedom of Information Acts - Freedom of Information Acts


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> If it is empty, that means there's nothing in there.   Doesn't seem to be the facts, does it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So smart girl, did Bundy take hostages? Did he drive the BLM out at gun point?
> 
> Hmmmm?
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with whether the buildings are empty or not, Don Quixote?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They haven't stolen shit, lol. Progressives think that government "property" are holy relics lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?   That would be a big surprise to all those government workers who have been prosecuted for "stealing" government property over the years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> isn't there something called the freedom of information act?  I mean, do you know what country you live in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show me anywhere in the Freedom of Information Act where anyone can just seize a federal building and start looting its files.
> 
> Because I'm pretty sure you've imagined it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> seize a federal building?  how did they do that? if it's abandoned then there are no files, so your point is useless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who says the buidling as 'abandoned'? By your standards, every time you leave your house its been 'abandoned' and thus anyone can just move in.
> 
> The words you're looking for are 'went home for the weekend'.
> 
> The only one saying its been 'abandoned' is you citing yourself. Which is legally meaningless.
Click to expand...

it is if I'm away from it for over 24 hours.  you should really look up the term.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. According to me, the Bundy group is going through files. Whether or not they're going through computer files is still undefined. As I've already said and you've quoted me saying.
> 
> Meaning that you're intentionally lying, and attributing to me a position I haven't adopted. Which is a strawman.
> 
> The fact that seditious conspirators have seized and taken possession of the computers, the evacutor and the files isn't in dispute. The conspirators have already admitted to all of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?
Click to expand...


You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'

You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.

If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy. 



> Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"



From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property. 

And stupidly, admitting to it.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. According to me, the Bundy group is going through files. Whether or not they're going through computer files is still undefined. As I've already said and you've quoted me saying.
> 
> Meaning that you're intentionally lying, and attributing to me a position I haven't adopted. Which is a strawman.
> 
> The fact that seditious conspirators have seized and taken possession of the computers, the evacutor and the files isn't in dispute. The conspirators have already admitted to all of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
Click to expand...

good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?   That would be a big surprise to all those government workers who have been prosecuted for "stealing" government property over the years.
> 
> 
> 
> isn't there something called the freedom of information act?  I mean, do you know what country you live in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you show me anywhere in the Freedom of Information Act where anyone can just seize a federal building and start looting its files.
> 
> Because I'm pretty sure you've imagined it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> seize a federal building?  how did they do that? if it's abandoned then there are no files, so your point is useless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who says the buidling as 'abandoned'? By your standards, every time you leave your house its been 'abandoned' and thus anyone can just move in.
> 
> The words you're looking for are 'went home for the weekend'.
> 
> The only one saying its been 'abandoned' is you citing yourself. Which is legally meaningless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it is if I'm away from it for over 24 hours.  you should really look up the term.
Click to expand...


Show me, don't tell me. And remember, this is federal land. So it needs to be a federal definition.

Not just whatever horseshit you make up.

Now what are the odds you can't back your pseudo-legal gibberish with anything more than you citing yourself?


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. According to me, the Bundy group is going through files. Whether or not they're going through computer files is still undefined. As I've already said and you've quoted me saying.
> 
> Meaning that you're intentionally lying, and attributing to me a position I haven't adopted. Which is a strawman.
> 
> The fact that seditious conspirators have seized and taken possession of the computers, the evacutor and the files isn't in dispute. The conspirators have already admitted to all of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
Click to expand...


Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.

You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?



> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property



But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work? 

And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend? 
[


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> What does that have to do with whether the buildings are empty or not, Don Quixote?



Are you claiming the building was occupied with Bundy showed up?


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366
> 
> 
> 
> goes nowhere.
Click to expand...

Try this one

nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with whether the buildings are empty or not, Don Quixote?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you claiming the building was occupied with Bundy showed up?
Click to expand...


Nope. They broke and entered over a holiday weekend. Then burglarized it. 

Its adorable listening to your ilk try and use terms like 'abandonment' like they have a fucking clue what they're talking about. Its like watching a 4 year old try on his daddy's shoes.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.



Since you DID post that he was going through files and possibly computer files, the lie is entirely yours.

Oh, and do learn what terms mean...

Fallacy: Straw Man





> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.



Possession was deprived in what way?

Oh, you're lying - I get it.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?



Oh is that what they did, just went home for the weekend?

Speaking of just making shit up....


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

here is what happened when a man plugged his EV to a school house plug
Man arrested for charging EV at son's school. ...a public building that belongs to all...​


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you DID post that he was going through files and possibly computer files, the lie is entirely yours.
Click to expand...


Here's my position....which you already know, but chose to misreprsent anyway. Because you're a liar.



			
				Skylar said:
			
		

> As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The leader of a small, armed group occupying a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon said Monday he and his followers are going through government documents stored inside refuge buildings.
> 
> Leader of armed group says he, his followers are going through government files to show discrimination against ranchers - 1/11/2016 6:29:39 PM | Newser
> 
> 
> 
> The only part that isn't confirmed is the militia going through computers. They're definitely going through the files.
> 
> Post 2025
> Assholes making trouble in Oregon
Click to expand...


Try again, liar. The more  you make shit up, the more you demonstrate my point: if your argument had merit, you wouldn't have to lie.






> Oh, and do learn what terms mean...
> 
> Fallacy: Straw Man



And who here has argued anti-semitism? No one. You attributed to posters positions they've never taken, refuting arguments people didn't make.

That's the strawman fallacy. Between the fallacies and the lies, you're not exactly painting a picture of an argument you're confident about.



> Possession was deprived in what way?



The owners can't use it. The thieves who stole it can and have. The thieves have possession. The rightful owners don't.

That's theft.


----------



## RollingThunder

koshergrl said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, prove it.  When did they actually use women and children as shields.  Show me now in this event where they are using women and children as shields. Just having them present does NOT prove that they are being used as shields.
> 
> It is amazing how those who are blindingly supporting the .gov side are letting their truth be twisted and distorted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You clueless fool!
> 
> Here are the facts that you choose to remain willfully blind to....In a very good sumary of the entire situation, and the background of the conflict, and some of the various reactions to this armed occupation.
> 
> *Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge*
> 
> Here's a few choice excerpts...
> 
> *On January 2, 2016, armed[8] members of rump militias occupied the headquarters building at the United States Fish and Wildlife Service's Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in rural southeastern Oregon in protest of the pending imprisonment of ranchers Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven Hammond. The two were convicted on charges of arson in 2012 for unlawfully setting fire to federal land under a domestic anti-terrorism law after setting brush fires to clear grazing land without the required permit.[9]Ammon Bundy, the leader of the group now calling themselves Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, said he began leading the occupation after receiving a divine message from God ordering him to do so.[10][11]
> 
> Although their sentences and imprisonment were a stated cause of the dispute, the Hammonds have repeatedly rejected the intervention of militias. Dwight Hammond's wife stated, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."
> 
> Some of the militia members stated that they were ready to "kill and be killed" in the standoff.[13] The takeover sparked a debate in the U.S. on the meaning of the word "terrorist" in the context of domestic terrorism in the country, and furthermore on how the media and law enforcement treat situations involving people of different ethnicities or religions.[14][15][16]
> 
> Dwight Hammond, a cattle rancher in Harney County, owns 12,000 acres (4,900 ha) of land, much of which abuts public land. In 1994, Hammond and his son Steve obstructed the construction of a fence to delineate the boundary between the two parcels of property, prompting their arrest by federal agents. According to federal officials, construction of the fence was needed to stop the Hammond cattle from moving along a cattle trail that intersected public land after the Hammonds had repeatedly violated the terms of their permit, which limited when they could move their cows across refuge property.[25]Officials also reported Hammond had made threats against them in 1986 and 1988, including telling one public lands manager that he was going to "tear off his head and shit down his neck". They also contended Steve Hammond had called them "assholes".[26]
> 
> In 1999, Steve Hammond started a fire with the intent of burning off juniper trees and sagebrush, but the fire escaped onto BLM land. The agency reminded Hammond of the required burn permit and that if the fires continued, there would be legal consequences.[27] Both Dwight and Steve Hammond would later on set two additional fires that would lead to arson convictions.[28]
> 
> Hammond arson case
> 
> In 2012, a federal district court jury found Dwight and Steve Hammond guilty of arson, for fires they had started on the federal land adjacent to their property in 2001 and 2006.[29]
> 
> The 2001 Hardie-Hammond Fire began according to Probation Officer Robb, when hunters in the area witnessed the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer.[30] Less than two hours later, a fire erupted and forced the hunters to leave the area.[31] Later, Steve's nephew Dusty Hammond testified that his uncle told him to start lighting matches and "light the whole countryside on fire." Dusty also testified that he was "almost burned up in the fire" and had to flee for his life.[27][32] The Hammonds have falsely claimed they started the fire to stop invasive plants from growing onto their grazing fields.[33]
> 
> The 2006 Krumbo Butte Fire started out as a wildfire, but several illegal backburns were set by the Hammonds with the intent to protect their winter feed. The backfires were set under the cover of night without warning the firefighting camp that was known to be on the slopes above.[31][34] According to the indictment, the fires threatened to trap four BLM firefighters, one of whom later confronted Dwight Hammond at the fire scene after having moved his crews to avoid the threat.[31][32] Two days later, Steve Hammond threatened to frame a BLM employee with arson if he didn't stop the investigation.[33]
> 
> Following their conviction, federal prosecutors requested a five-year sentence for each of the Hammonds as provided for under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 (AEDPA).[34] The AEDPA provides that arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence.[35][36] U.S. District Judge Michael Robert Hogan determined sentences of that length "would shock the conscience" and would violate the constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. Hogan instead sentenced Dwight Hammond to three months' imprisonment and Steve Hammond to a year and a day's imprisonment, which both men served.[37] In what was described by media as a "rare" action, U.S. Attorney Amanda Marshall successfully appealed the sentence to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which upheld the mandatory-minimum law, writing that "given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense." The court vacated the original sentence and remanded for resentencing. The Hammonds filed petitions for certiorari with the Supreme Court, which the court rejected in March 2015.[35] In October 2015, Chief Judge Ann Aiken re-sentenced the pair to five years in prison (with credit for time served), ordering that they return to prison on January 4, 2016.[35][37] Both of the Hammonds reported to prison in California on January 4 in accordance with the law.[38]
> 
> In a separate 2014 civil judgment, the Hammonds were ordered to pay $400,000 in restitution to the U.S. government for the related arson fires. The pair paid half the amount immediately and the remaining $200,000 in December 2015.[34]
> ***
> By late 2015, the Hammond case had attracted the attention of members of the family of Cliven Bundy, including sons Ammon and Ryan. The Bundys publicized the situation via social media, drawing interest from militia groups outside Oregon who sought to publicly endorse the Hammonds to draw attention to unrelated issues.[29][40] The Hammonds rejected the offers of assistance with Hammond attorney W. Alan Schroeder writing that "neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family."[3]When later asked about the occupation, Susan Hammond, the wife of Dwight Hammond, was dismissive and said, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."[41]
> 
> Harney County sheriff David Ward agreed to meet with the militia members who requested the sheriff's office protect the Hammonds from being taken into custody by federal authorities. Though Ward said he sympathized with the Hammonds' plight, he declined the militias' request. Ward said that he subsequently received death threats by email.[29]
> 
> Reactions
> 
> Anti-government activists
> 
> Cliven Bundy, the father of Ammon and Ryan Bundy, said he was not involved in organizing the takeover of the MNWR facilities and said it was "not exactly what I thought should happen".[40]
> 
> Asked about the incident, Mike Vanderboegh, a founder of the 3 Percenters militia, described the occupiers as "a collection of fruits and nuts", described John Ritzheimer as a "fool", and said Ammon Bundy had "a John Brown complex".[90]
> 
> The group Oath Keepers (of which Jon Ritzheimer was formerly a member) in a statement published on its website prior to the seizure of the MNWR facilities, said "we cannot force ourselves or our protection on people who do not want it. Dwight and Steven Hammond have made it clear, through their attorney, that they just want to turn themselves in and serve out their sentence. And that clear statement of their intent should be the end of the discussion on this."[91]
> 
> Tribal government
> 
> The governing council of the Burns Paiute Tribe, an Indian nation whose borders straddled Harney County, declared the occupiers were endangering the tribe's history by their presence and called on them to leave. Tribal chair Charlotte Rodrique went on to explain that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service was the protector of traditional Burns Paiute religious and archaeological sites in the area and that the displacement of federal authorities put such locations at risk.[96]
> 
> State, and local government
> 
> State Representative Cliff Bentz, who represents the region in the Oregon House of Representatives, said that the outside groups do not represents Burns or Harney County, saying, "They're trying to use the misfortune of the Hammonds to further the interests of the Bundys."[97]
> 
> In a January 6 press release, the Western State Sheriffs Association (WSSA), an organization representing 800 sheriffs in the American West, said its mission was to "promote the office of Sheriff and to assist our member Sheriffs on issues of mutual concern" and that it had offered Harney County Sheriff David Ward to organize out-of-state resources to send to Oregon if requested. The WSSA statement went on to note that it did not "support efforts of any individual or groups who utilize intimidation, threats or fear in order to further an agenda."[99]
> 
> Organizations
> 
> The Oregon Cattleman's Association, while maintaining it still supported the Hammonds, released a statement that declared it did "not support illegal activity taken against the government. This includes militia takeover of government property, such as the Malheur Wildlife Refuge."[100]
> 
> On January 4, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a statement condemning the militia actions and stating, "While the disagreement occurring in Oregon about the use of federal lands is not a Church matter, Church leaders strongly condemn the armed seizure of the facility and are deeply troubled by the reports that those who have seized the facility suggest that they are doing so based on scriptural principles. This armed occupation can in no way be justified on a scriptural basis."[57][101] The church also released an excerpt from a 1992 speech by Dallin H. Oaks, a senior Mormon religious leader, criticizing the "excessive zeal" of "those patriots who are participating in or provisioning private armies and making private preparations for armed conflict".[57]
> 
> The Audubon Society of Portland, in a written statement, said that the "occupation of Malheur by armed, out of state militia groups puts one of America's most important wildlife refuges at risk. It violates the most basic principles of the public trust doctrine and holds hostage public lands and public resources to serve the very narrow political agenda of the occupiers."[102]*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lololol...
Click to expand...

Were there too many big words for you to understand, Krazygrl?

Or is just that the very concept of providing evidence about the realities of this situation is foreign to your little retarded rightwingnut mind?


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> Nope. They broke and entered over a holiday weekend. Then burglarized it.
> 
> Its adorable listening to your ilk try and use terms like 'abandonment' like they have a fucking clue what they're talking about. Its like watching a 4 year old try on his daddy's shoes.



And you base that on etchings found on your colon wall?

I never said it was "abandoned," I said it was "empty." You're just lying, as usual.

But tell me more about how the Malheur National Wildlife headquarters "staff" had "gone home for the holiday weekend?" 

It's fascinating...


----------



## freedombecki

TyroneSlothrop said:


> here is what happened when a man plugged his EV to a school house plug
> Man arrested for charging EV at son's school. ...a public building that belongs to all...​


The Principal stands on principle!


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. They broke and entered over a holiday weekend. Then burglarized it.
> 
> Its adorable listening to your ilk try and use terms like 'abandonment' like they have a fucking clue what they're talking about. Its like watching a 4 year old try on his daddy's shoes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you base that on etchings found on your colon wall?
> 
> I never said it was "abandoned," I said it was "empty." You're just lying, as usual.
Click to expand...


And when did I say you claimed it was abandoned? Quote me, liar. 

I said your ilk tried to use the term 'abandonment'. And were comically, laughably wrong. As you can't abandon real property. And certainly not in 24 hours like your fellow idiots have claimed.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

It is OK to take over and occupy Government building when they are not occupied......its not trespassing its just taking it over on the theory that if no one is there it is empty so its all good .....


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> Here's my position....which you already know, but chose to misreprsent anyway. Because you're a liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
Click to expand...




So you did claim that they took files on computers and have been lying ever since! 

Hey, you're a leftist - you lie, it's what you do...


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

lets say you come up on an empty school bus ...its public property ...no one is in it...its perfectly OK to get in the bus and drive off....you are a member of the public you own the bus........


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> And when did I say you claimed it was abandoned? Quote me, liar.
> 
> I said your ilk tried to use the term 'abandonment'. And were comically, laughably wrong. As you can't abandon real property. And certainly not in 24 hours like your fellow idiots have claimed.



Since it isn't my claim and you are attributing it to me, you're just lying.

Hey, you're a leftist, you lie, it's what you do....


----------



## koshergrl

Lol. Poor lefties, have to make stuff up because the reality won't justify the Waco approach to people "occupying" public property.


----------



## freedombecki

RollingThunder said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> But they did do it, and they are doing it now. They have brought children to a gun fight, or at least, a potential gunfight. Those women and children are being used as shields.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, prove it.  When did they actually use women and children as shields.  Show me now in this event where they are using women and children as shields. Just having them present does NOT prove that they are being used as shields.
> 
> It is amazing how those who are blindingly supporting the .gov side are letting their truth be twisted and distorted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You clueless fool!
> 
> Here are the facts that you choose to remain willfully blind to....In a very good sumary of the entire situation, and the background of the conflict, and some of the various reactions to this armed occupation.
> 
> *Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge*
> 
> Here's a few choice excerpts...
> 
> *On January 2, 2016, armed[8] members of rump militias occupied the headquarters building at the United States Fish and Wildlife Service's Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in rural southeastern Oregon in protest of the pending imprisonment of ranchers Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven Hammond. The two were convicted on charges of arson in 2012 for unlawfully setting fire to federal land under a domestic anti-terrorism law after setting brush fires to clear grazing land without the required permit.[9]Ammon Bundy, the leader of the group now calling themselves Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, said he began leading the occupation after receiving a divine message from God ordering him to do so.[10][11]
> 
> Although their sentences and imprisonment were a stated cause of the dispute, the Hammonds have repeatedly rejected the intervention of militias. Dwight Hammond's wife stated, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."
> 
> Some of the militia members stated that they were ready to "kill and be killed" in the standoff.[13] The takeover sparked a debate in the U.S. on the meaning of the word "terrorist" in the context of domestic terrorism in the country, and furthermore on how the media and law enforcement treat situations involving people of different ethnicities or religions.[14][15][16]
> 
> Dwight Hammond, a cattle rancher in Harney County, owns 12,000 acres (4,900 ha) of land, much of which abuts public land. In 1994, Hammond and his son Steve obstructed the construction of a fence to delineate the boundary between the two parcels of property, prompting their arrest by federal agents. According to federal officials, construction of the fence was needed to stop the Hammond cattle from moving along a cattle trail that intersected public land after the Hammonds had repeatedly violated the terms of their permit, which limited when they could move their cows across refuge property.[25]Officials also reported Hammond had made threats against them in 1986 and 1988, including telling one public lands manager that he was going to "tear off his head and shit down his neck". They also contended Steve Hammond had called them "assholes".[26]
> 
> In 1999, Steve Hammond started a fire with the intent of burning off juniper trees and sagebrush, but the fire escaped onto BLM land. The agency reminded Hammond of the required burn permit and that if the fires continued, there would be legal consequences.[27] Both Dwight and Steve Hammond would later on set two additional fires that would lead to arson convictions.[28]
> 
> Hammond arson case
> 
> In 2012, a federal district court jury found Dwight and Steve Hammond guilty of arson, for fires they had started on the federal land adjacent to their property in 2001 and 2006.[29]
> 
> The 2001 Hardie-Hammond Fire began according to Probation Officer Robb, when hunters in the area witnessed the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer.[30] Less than two hours later, a fire erupted and forced the hunters to leave the area.[31] Later, Steve's nephew Dusty Hammond testified that his uncle told him to start lighting matches and "light the whole countryside on fire." Dusty also testified that he was "almost burned up in the fire" and had to flee for his life.[27][32] The Hammonds have falsely claimed they started the fire to stop invasive plants from growing onto their grazing fields.[33]
> 
> The 2006 Krumbo Butte Fire started out as a wildfire, but several illegal backburns were set by the Hammonds with the intent to protect their winter feed. The backfires were set under the cover of night without warning the firefighting camp that was known to be on the slopes above.[31][34] According to the indictment, the fires threatened to trap four BLM firefighters, one of whom later confronted Dwight Hammond at the fire scene after having moved his crews to avoid the threat.[31][32] Two days later, Steve Hammond threatened to frame a BLM employee with arson if he didn't stop the investigation.[33]
> 
> Following their conviction, federal prosecutors requested a five-year sentence for each of the Hammonds as provided for under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 (AEDPA).[34] The AEDPA provides that arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence.[35][36] U.S. District Judge Michael Robert Hogan determined sentences of that length "would shock the conscience" and would violate the constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. Hogan instead sentenced Dwight Hammond to three months' imprisonment and Steve Hammond to a year and a day's imprisonment, which both men served.[37] In what was described by media as a "rare" action, U.S. Attorney Amanda Marshall successfully appealed the sentence to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which upheld the mandatory-minimum law, writing that "given the seriousness of arson, a five-year sentence is not grossly disproportionate to the offense." The court vacated the original sentence and remanded for resentencing. The Hammonds filed petitions for certiorari with the Supreme Court, which the court rejected in March 2015.[35] In October 2015, Chief Judge Ann Aiken re-sentenced the pair to five years in prison (with credit for time served), ordering that they return to prison on January 4, 2016.[35][37] Both of the Hammonds reported to prison in California on January 4 in accordance with the law.[38]
> 
> In a separate 2014 civil judgment, the Hammonds were ordered to pay $400,000 in restitution to the U.S. government for the related arson fires. The pair paid half the amount immediately and the remaining $200,000 in December 2015.[34]
> ***
> By late 2015, the Hammond case had attracted the attention of members of the family of Cliven Bundy, including sons Ammon and Ryan. The Bundys publicized the situation via social media, drawing interest from militia groups outside Oregon who sought to publicly endorse the Hammonds to draw attention to unrelated issues.[29][40] The Hammonds rejected the offers of assistance with Hammond attorney W. Alan Schroeder writing that "neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family."[3]When later asked about the occupation, Susan Hammond, the wife of Dwight Hammond, was dismissive and said, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."[41]
> 
> Harney County sheriff David Ward agreed to meet with the militia members who requested the sheriff's office protect the Hammonds from being taken into custody by federal authorities. Though Ward said he sympathized with the Hammonds' plight, he declined the militias' request. Ward said that he subsequently received death threats by email.[29]
> 
> Reactions
> 
> Anti-government activists
> 
> Cliven Bundy, the father of Ammon and Ryan Bundy, said he was not involved in organizing the takeover of the MNWR facilities and said it was "not exactly what I thought should happen".[40]
> 
> Asked about the incident, Mike Vanderboegh, a founder of the 3 Percenters militia, described the occupiers as "a collection of fruits and nuts", described John Ritzheimer as a "fool", and said Ammon Bundy had "a John Brown complex".[90]
> 
> The group Oath Keepers (of which Jon Ritzheimer was formerly a member) in a statement published on its website prior to the seizure of the MNWR facilities, said "we cannot force ourselves or our protection on people who do not want it. Dwight and Steven Hammond have made it clear, through their attorney, that they just want to turn themselves in and serve out their sentence. And that clear statement of their intent should be the end of the discussion on this."[91]
> 
> Tribal government
> 
> The governing council of the Burns Paiute Tribe, an Indian nation whose borders straddled Harney County, declared the occupiers were endangering the tribe's history by their presence and called on them to leave. Tribal chair Charlotte Rodrique went on to explain that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service was the protector of traditional Burns Paiute religious and archaeological sites in the area and that the displacement of federal authorities put such locations at risk.[96]
> 
> State, and local government
> 
> State Representative Cliff Bentz, who represents the region in the Oregon House of Representatives, said that the outside groups do not represents Burns or Harney County, saying, "They're trying to use the misfortune of the Hammonds to further the interests of the Bundys."[97]
> 
> In a January 6 press release, the Western State Sheriffs Association (WSSA), an organization representing 800 sheriffs in the American West, said its mission was to "promote the office of Sheriff and to assist our member Sheriffs on issues of mutual concern" and that it had offered Harney County Sheriff David Ward to organize out-of-state resources to send to Oregon if requested. The WSSA statement went on to note that it did not "support efforts of any individual or groups who utilize intimidation, threats or fear in order to further an agenda."[99]
> 
> Organizations
> 
> The Oregon Cattleman's Association, while maintaining it still supported the Hammonds, released a statement that declared it did "not support illegal activity taken against the government. This includes militia takeover of government property, such as the Malheur Wildlife Refuge."[100]
> 
> On January 4, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints issued a statement condemning the militia actions and stating, "While the disagreement occurring in Oregon about the use of federal lands is not a Church matter, Church leaders strongly condemn the armed seizure of the facility and are deeply troubled by the reports that those who have seized the facility suggest that they are doing so based on scriptural principles. This armed occupation can in no way be justified on a scriptural basis."[57][101] The church also released an excerpt from a 1992 speech by Dallin H. Oaks, a senior Mormon religious leader, criticizing the "excessive zeal" of "those patriots who are participating in or provisioning private armies and making private preparations for armed conflict".[57]
> 
> The Audubon Society of Portland, in a written statement, said that the "occupation of Malheur by armed, out of state militia groups puts one of America's most important wildlife refuges at risk. It violates the most basic principles of the public trust doctrine and holds hostage public lands and public resources to serve the very narrow political agenda of the occupiers."[102]*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lololol...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Were there too many big words for you to understand, Krazygrl?
> 
> Or is just that the very concept of providing evidence about the realities of this situation is foreign to your little retarded rightwingnut mind?
Click to expand...

_Au contraire, mon amie_. Laughter is a good outlet for reading about the antics of zealots on either side of the issue, and laughter is often far more eloquent than words.


----------



## RollingThunder

Reeeeeally tough guys...






http://heavy.com/news/2016/01/yallq...refuge-takeover-terrorism-best-funny-memes/1/
http://heavy.com/news/2016/01/yallq...refuge-takeover-terrorism-best-funny-memes/3/


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my position....which you already know, but chose to misreprsent anyway. Because you're a liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you did claim that they took files on computers and have been lying ever since!
> 
> Hey, you're a leftist - you lie, it's what you do...
Click to expand...


And like the liar that you are, you cut out the part of my post that explicitly contradicts your narrative:



			
				Skylar said:
			
		

> As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The leader of a small, armed group occupying a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon said Monday he and his followers are going through government documents stored inside refuge buildings.
> 
> Leader of armed group says he, his followers are going through government files to show discrimination against ranchers - 1/11/2016 6:29:39 PM | Newser
> 
> 
> 
> The only part that isn't confirmed is the militia going through computers. They're definitely going through the files.
Click to expand...


I explicitly said that the going through computers part isn't confirmed. And you know it. So well in fact, that you intentionally cut out any mention of it in your reply. Why?

You're a liar. You can't help yourself. Even when you know you're just going to humiliate yourself, you can't stop lying. .

If your claims had merit, you woulnd't need to offer us lie after lie. Yet your argument can't survive without it, liar.


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> lets say you come up on an empty school bus ...its public property ...no one is in it...its perfectly OK to get in the bus and drive off....you are a member of the public you own the bus........


 Nothing has been driven off, nothing has been taken. Locals who have been to the refuge say it's never looked so well cared for. Finally.


----------



## koshergrl

RollingThunder said:


> Reeeeeally tough guys...


 Yet progressives want them killed. Kind of a weird reaction if it's such a non-event.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> Nothing has been driven off, nothing has been taken. Locals who have been to the refuge say it's never looked so well cared for. Finally.



those would be the locals telling them to "get the fuck out of our county"


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reeeeeally tough guys...
> 
> 
> 
> Yet progressives want them killed. Kind of a weird reaction if it's such a non-event.
Click to expand...

I want them not killed but confronted for their criminal behavior just as though they were Black folks


----------



## Skylar

TyroneSlothrop said:


> lets say you come up on an empty school bus ...its public property ...no one is in it...its perfectly OK to get in the bus and drive off....you are a member of the public you own the bus........



To our resident pseudo-legal scholars, yup! Anything not used for 24 hours is magically no longer their property!

Somehow.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> lets say you come up on an empty school bus ...its public property ...no one is in it...its perfectly OK to get in the bus and drive off....you are a member of the public you own the bus........
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing has been driven off, nothing has been taken. Locals who have been to the refuge say it's never looked so well cared for. Finally.
Click to expand...


Where are you getting this shit? You keep offering us elaborate quotes from the locals, claiming to speak for the town. 

But when we ask you to back these quotes......you quietly slink away.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. According to me, the Bundy group is going through files. Whether or not they're going through computer files is still undefined. As I've already said and you've quoted me saying.
> 
> Meaning that you're intentionally lying, and attributing to me a position I haven't adopted. Which is a strawman.
> 
> The fact that seditious conspirators have seized and taken possession of the computers, the evacutor and the files isn't in dispute. The conspirators have already admitted to all of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
Click to expand...


all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.

Have you looked up who owns federal land?  hmmmmmmmmm here a little snippet from Wikipedia:

*"Federal lands* are lands in the United States for which ownership is claimed by the U.S. federal government, pursuant to Article Four, section 3, clause 2 of the United States Constitution.[1] As of March 2012, out of the 2.27 billion acres in the country, about 28% of the total was owned by the Federal government according to the Interior Department.[2] The United States Supreme Court has upheld the broad powers of the federal government to deal with federal lands, for example having unanimously held in _Kleppe v. New Mexico_[3] that "the complete power that Congress has over federal lands under this clause necessarily includes the power to regulate and protect wildlife living there, state law notwithstanding."[1] "


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. According to me, the Bundy group is going through files. Whether or not they're going through computer files is still undefined. As I've already said and you've quoted me saying.
> 
> Meaning that you're intentionally lying, and attributing to me a position I haven't adopted. Which is a strawman.
> 
> The fact that seditious conspirators have seized and taken possession of the computers, the evacutor and the files isn't in dispute. The conspirators have already admitted to all of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. According to me, the Bundy group is going through files. Whether or not they're going through computer files is still undefined. As I've already said and you've quoted me saying.
> 
> Meaning that you're intentionally lying, and attributing to me a position I haven't adopted. Which is a strawman.
> 
> The fact that seditious conspirators have seized and taken possession of the computers, the evacutor and the files isn't in dispute. The conspirators have already admitted to all of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
Click to expand...


Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it. 

Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?


----------



## shadow355

If there is multiple problems and they are not being fixed, it is kind of easy to find out whom the perpetrators are.

  If you are not part of the solution - you are part of the problem.  Knowingly and willingly?


              Shadow 355


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366
> 
> 
> 
> goes nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try this one
> 
> nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366
Click to expand...

now and excerpt from your link:

"A representative for the FBI, which has kept its cards close to the vest during the now five-day drama, told MSNBC there is "no information regarding arrests" and said he could not confirm Ward's assertion."

no confirmation of anything.  Do they even know who is in the building?  LOL, this is really causing you'alls shorts to get in a bundle.  LMFAO, LMMFAO


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
Click to expand...

you haven't shown me one piece of anything for me to be concerned about with what I posted. I posted all facts.

And, BTW, still no charges, so right now nothing illegal about anything these folks are doing.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366
> 
> 
> 
> goes nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try this one
> 
> nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> now and excerpt from your link:
> 
> "A representative for the FBI, which has kept its cards close to the vest during the now five-day drama, told MSNBC there is "no information regarding arrests" and said he could not confirm Ward's assertion."
> 
> no confirmation of anything.  Do they even know who is in the building?  LOL, this is really causing you'alls shorts to get in a bundle.  LMFAO, LMMFAO
Click to expand...


I consider the sheriff a reliable source on the matter. 

If you don't, then you can't ever quote local law enforcement again. On any matter. And yes, I'll hold you to it.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> Nothing has been driven off, nothing has been taken..



Malheur Refuge occupiers cut fences, go over govt. files
*BURNS, Ore. -*​As the occupation of a southeast Oregon wildlife refuge entered its second week Monday, the leaders of the takeover cut fences -- at the request of a local rancher, they said -- as part of their plan to return the federal land back to the people of Harney County.

*A backhoe with a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service emblem prominently on the side was brought in to help remove the barbed-wire fence and fence posts that mark the border between a section of the refuge and private land.*


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> 
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you haven't shown me one piece of anything for me to be concerned about with what I posted. I posted all facts.
Click to expand...


Then show us. Don't tell us. Show us where not occupying the land for 24 hours means its 'abandoned' and can't have records of it.

If its a 'fact', it should be remarkably easy for you to factually verify. Its its insane pseudo-legal horseshit that you just hallucinated and can't possibly back up......it will be considerably more difficult.

Show us.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366
> 
> 
> 
> goes nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try this one
> 
> nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> now and excerpt from your link:
> 
> "A representative for the FBI, which has kept its cards close to the vest during the now five-day drama, told MSNBC there is "no information regarding arrests" and said he could not confirm Ward's assertion."
> 
> no confirmation of anything.  Do they even know who is in the building?  LOL, this is really causing you'alls shorts to get in a bundle.  LMFAO, LMMFAO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I consider the sheriff a reliable source on the matter.
> 
> If you don't, then you can't ever quote local law enforcement again. On any matter. And yes, I'll hold you to it.
Click to expand...

 
The sheriff isn't a reliable source. He's been called to the mat for refusing to stand up for the citizens of Harney county against the BLM, and for misrepresenting the local residents to the press. My facebook has multiple posts from locals who say that it's not the bundy guys who are scary...it's the flocks of statist freaks who have shown up, and are following their kids around. They say the deputies are following the locals around, running their plates etc.

Which is because they know the locals support the situation out at the refuge.


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing has been driven off, nothing has been taken..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Malheur Refuge occupiers cut fences, go over govt. files
> *BURNS, Ore. -*​As the occupation of a southeast Oregon wildlife refuge entered its second week Monday, the leaders of the takeover cut fences -- at the request of a local rancher, they said -- as part of their plan to return the federal land back to the people of Harney County.
> 
> *A backhoe with a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service emblem prominently on the side was brought in to help remove the barbed-wire fence and fence posts that mark the border between a section of the refuge and private land.*
Click to expand...

Good. It's open range in Eastern Oregon. Those fucks at the blm put those fences up to prevent landowners from crossing their property in order to get to their own tracts, that are checkerboarded within BLM land.


----------



## Camp

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am lying? You mean I'm the one claiming they "stole" computers that are still in the building?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and Pinocchio, where did they take the "evacuator?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
Click to expand...

This poster can not possibly be as stupid as he appears.  The poster has lost his argument so he is just screwing around and messing with people, getting enjoyment out of wasting people's time. There is just no way he could be as stupid as he appears.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> landowners from crossing their property in order to get to their own tracts, that are checkerboarded within BLM land.


Link...

They are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly arrested and made to serve prison terms


----------



## Skylar

Camp said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> 
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're that lied and claimed 'According to Skylar, the Bundy group is going through computer files.'
> 
> You know that's not my position. You've quoted me saying otherwise. You intentionally lied, intentionally misrepresented my position.
> 
> If your claims had merit, you wouldn't have had to lie or use the Strawman fallacy.
> 
> From where its rightful owners left it. Possession was deprived from its rightful owners with the seditious conspirators taking possession and use of the same. With the seditious conspirators then using it to destroy government property.
> 
> And stupidly, admitting to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This poster can not possibly be as stupid as he appears.  The poster has lost his argument so he is just screwing around and messing with people, getting enjoyment out of wasting people's time. There is just no way he could be as stupid as he appears.
Click to expand...


I get the impression of an older fellow who folks don't take too seriously......so they don't bother to correct him when he says absolutely silly shit.


----------



## RollingThunder

Pretty much explains that....


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you haven't shown me one piece of anything for me to be concerned about with what I posted. I posted all facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then show us. Don't tell us. Show us where not occupying the land for 24 hours means its 'abandoned' and can't have records of it.
> 
> If its a 'fact', it should be remarkably easy for you to factually verify. Its its insane pseudo-legal horseshit that you just hallucinated and can't possibly back up......it will be considerably more difficult.
> 
> Show us.
Click to expand...

 
Nobody said that leaving land unused for 24 hours means it's abandoned.

Lefties making shit up again.


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> landowners from crossing their property in order to get to their own tracts, that are checkerboarded within BLM land.
> 
> 
> 
> Link...
> 
> They are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly arrested and made to serve prison terms
Click to expand...

 
We agree. The feds are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly, arrested and thrown in prison.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366
> 
> 
> 
> goes nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try this one
> 
> nbcnews.com/news/us-news/oregon-occupiers-face-charges-when-siege-ends-sheriff-n491366
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> now and excerpt from your link:
> 
> "A representative for the FBI, which has kept its cards close to the vest during the now five-day drama, told MSNBC there is "no information regarding arrests" and said he could not confirm Ward's assertion."
> 
> no confirmation of anything.  Do they even know who is in the building?  LOL, this is really causing you'alls shorts to get in a bundle.  LMFAO, LMMFAO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I consider the sheriff a reliable source on the matter.
> 
> If you don't, then you can't ever quote local law enforcement again. On any matter. And yes, I'll hold you to it.
Click to expand...

but the fbi didn't back him, now did he?


----------



## jc456

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> 
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you haven't shown me one piece of anything for me to be concerned about with what I posted. I posted all facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then show us. Don't tell us. Show us where not occupying the land for 24 hours means its 'abandoned' and can't have records of it.
> 
> If its a 'fact', it should be remarkably easy for you to factually verify. Its its insane pseudo-legal horseshit that you just hallucinated and can't possibly back up......it will be considerably more difficult.
> 
> Show us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody said that leaving land unused for 24 hours means it's abandoned.
> 
> Lefties making shit up again.
Click to expand...

I did


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> 
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you haven't shown me one piece of anything for me to be concerned about with what I posted. I posted all facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then show us. Don't tell us. Show us where not occupying the land for 24 hours means its 'abandoned' and can't have records of it.
> 
> If its a 'fact', it should be remarkably easy for you to factually verify. Its its insane pseudo-legal horseshit that you just hallucinated and can't possibly back up......it will be considerably more difficult.
> 
> Show us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody said that leaving land unused for 24 hours means it's abandoned.
> 
> Lefties making shit up again.
Click to expand...


I guess JC's name is 'nobody'. Because that's exactly what he claimed:



			
				jc456 said:
			
		

> skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who says the buidling as 'abandoned'? By your standards, every time you leave your house its been 'abandoned' and thus anyone can just move in.
> 
> The words you're looking for are 'went home for the weekend'.
> 
> The only one saying its been 'abandoned' is you citing yourself. Which is legally meaningless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it is if I'm away from it for over 24 hours. you should really look up the term.
> 
> Post 2095
> 
> Assholes making trouble in Oregon
Click to expand...


Remember, Kosher......you don't actually know what the fuck you're talking about. It tends to hurt your arguments.


----------



## RollingThunder

koshergrl said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reeeeeally tough guys...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet progressives want them killed. Kind of a weird reaction if it's such a non-event.
Click to expand...

LOLOLOLOLOLOL.....riiiiiight.....I posted a cartoon and that means that I must "_want them killed_". 

Do you remember exactly when it was that you went completely insane, Krazygrl?


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you haven't shown me one piece of anything for me to be concerned about with what I posted. I posted all facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then show us. Don't tell us. Show us where not occupying the land for 24 hours means its 'abandoned' and can't have records of it.
> 
> If its a 'fact', it should be remarkably easy for you to factually verify. Its its insane pseudo-legal horseshit that you just hallucinated and can't possibly back up......it will be considerably more difficult.
> 
> Show us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody said that leaving land unused for 24 hours means it's abandoned.
> 
> Lefties making shit up again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did
Click to expand...


Yup. And then failed utterly to back up with jack shit. 

Thanks for putting the 'pseudo' in 'pseudo-legal gibberish'.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> landowners from crossing their property in order to get to their own tracts, that are checkerboarded within BLM land.
> 
> 
> 
> Link...
> 
> They are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly arrested and made to serve prison terms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We agree. The feds are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly, arrested and thrown in prison.
Click to expand...

no the weirdos that are illegally occupying Federal property are law breaking loons who need to be confronted , arrested, given a trial , given prison sentences and ordered to pay damages and fines...........


----------



## RollingThunder

I think we've found the explanation for the snack shortage...


----------



## koshergrl

jc456 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you haven't shown me one piece of anything for me to be concerned about with what I posted. I posted all facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then show us. Don't tell us. Show us where not occupying the land for 24 hours means its 'abandoned' and can't have records of it.
> 
> If its a 'fact', it should be remarkably easy for you to factually verify. Its its insane pseudo-legal horseshit that you just hallucinated and can't possibly back up......it will be considerably more difficult.
> 
> Show us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody said that leaving land unused for 24 hours means it's abandoned.
> 
> Lefties making shit up again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did
Click to expand...

 Hahahaha oh well, all I have to do is wait 5 minutes, they'll lie about something.


----------



## koshergrl

RollingThunder said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reeeeeally tough guys...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet progressives want them killed. Kind of a weird reaction if it's such a non-event.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOLOLOLOLOLOL.....riiiiiight.....I posted a cartoon and that means that I must "_want them killed_".
> 
> Do you remember exactly when it was that you went completely insane, Krazygrl?
Click to expand...

 
Actually, I was talking about the progressives who are eating up the Oregonlive site with their demands that someone 'take out' the bundies, who claim "I got a bullet with their (bundys) name on it" etc.


----------



## RollingThunder

koshergrl said:


> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RollingThunder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reeeeeally tough guys...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet progressives want them killed. Kind of a weird reaction if it's such a non-event.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOLOLOLOLOLOL.....riiiiiight.....I posted a cartoon and that means that I must "_want them killed_".
> 
> Do you remember exactly when it was that you went completely insane, Krazygrl?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I was talking about the progressives who are eating up the Oregonlive site with their demands that someone 'take out' the bundies, who claim "I got a bullet with their (bundys) name on it" etc.
Click to expand...

So what does that have to do with the cartoon I posted, you flaming retard? Do you just post your demented twaddle randomly?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> good thing you have an ass for anchor, cause dude you're getting out there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the poor soul who just insisted that workers going home for the weekend means that their place of work is 'abandoned'. And thus can't have any files in it. For....some reason. You never could explain that.
> 
> You really are just making this shit up as you go along, aren't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personal property left by an owner who intentionally relinquishes all rights to its control.  Real property may not be abandoned.
> 
> Abandoned Property
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But tell me again how workers going home for a holiday weekend means they've 'abandoned' their place of work?
> 
> And where did you ever get the batshit idea that records can't be a building because workers go home for the weekend?
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you haven't shown me one piece of anything for me to be concerned about with what I posted. I posted all facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then show us. Don't tell us. Show us where not occupying the land for 24 hours means its 'abandoned' and can't have records of it.
> 
> If its a 'fact', it should be remarkably easy for you to factually verify. Its its insane pseudo-legal horseshit that you just hallucinated and can't possibly back up......it will be considerably more difficult.
> 
> Show us.
Click to expand...

Ok, so 24 hours was out there, but one should be careful,  It's happened over a couple of days.  read about this dude:

Man tries to claim ‘abandoned’ homes


"One of the houses that Carr entered — and then filed a claim of ownership for — is occupied by a Springdale family that happened to be out of town and caring for a sick relative when Carr allegedly broke into the home and tried to take it over.
When the family, who is asking not to be named in this case, returned back to their home, they found Carr, who had changed the locks and emptied the house. He presented the family with paperwork, which he said proved he was the home’s new owner.
That family had only been gone for a matter of days when Carr decided to move in"


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the libturd thinks he's smart eh?
> all made up shit I see,   is it federal land or real property?  That's the new question from your response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its a new demonstration that you have no idea what you're talking about.
> 
> Land IS real property. And nothing you've posted backs your absolutely insane claim that leaving land unused for 24 hours means its 'abandoned'. Or that it can't have records on it.
> 
> Can I take it from your hapless rout that you couldn't find a damn thing to back up your pseudo-legal gibberish?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you haven't shown me one piece of anything for me to be concerned about with what I posted. I posted all facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then show us. Don't tell us. Show us where not occupying the land for 24 hours means its 'abandoned' and can't have records of it.
> 
> If its a 'fact', it should be remarkably easy for you to factually verify. Its its insane pseudo-legal horseshit that you just hallucinated and can't possibly back up......it will be considerably more difficult.
> 
> Show us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nobody said that leaving land unused for 24 hours means it's abandoned.
> 
> Lefties making shit up again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I guess JC's name is 'nobody'. Because that's exactly what he claimed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who says the buidling as 'abandoned'? By your standards, every time you leave your house its been 'abandoned' and thus anyone can just move in.
> 
> The words you're looking for are 'went home for the weekend'.
> 
> The only one saying its been 'abandoned' is you citing yourself. Which is legally meaningless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> it is if I'm away from it for over 24 hours. you should really look up the term.
> 
> Post 2095
> 
> Assholes making trouble in Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Remember, Kosher......you don't actually know what the fuck you're talking about. It tends to hurt your arguments.
Click to expand...

hey turd, I admitted it.


----------



## koshergrl

Meanwhile, the locals are sick of the feds.


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> Meanwhile, the locals are sick of the feds.


so? does that give them permission to destroy federal property?


----------



## jc456

ogibillm said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, the locals are sick of the feds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so? does that give them permission to destroy federal property?
Click to expand...

I guess we'll see eh?  No charges filed yet.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my position....which you already know, but chose to misreprsent anyway. Because you're a liar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you did claim that they took files on computers and have been lying ever since!
> 
> Hey, you're a leftist - you lie, it's what you do...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And like the liar that you are, you cut out the part of my post that explicitly contradicts your narrative:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The leader of a small, armed group occupying a national wildlife refuge in southeastern Oregon said Monday he and his followers are going through government documents stored inside refuge buildings.
> 
> Leader of armed group says he, his followers are going through government files to show discrimination against ranchers - 1/11/2016 6:29:39 PM | Newser
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only part that isn't confirmed is the militia going through computers. They're definitely going through the files.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I explicitly said that the going through computers part isn't confirmed. And you know it. So well in fact, that you intentionally cut out any mention of it in your reply. Why?
> 
> You're a liar. You can't help yourself. Even when you know you're just going to humiliate yourself, you can't stop lying. .
> 
> If your claims had merit, you woulnd't need to offer us lie after lie. Yet your argument can't survive without it, liar.
Click to expand...


You specifically said 

That he got it right.

You can't lie your way out of it, you go busted.
As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.
As for the 'files on computers', he got the file part right.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with whether the buildings are empty or not, Don Quixote?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you claiming the building was occupied with Bundy showed up?
Click to expand...

No.   When did I ever claim that someone was actually in the building when they broke in?


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> landowners from crossing their property in order to get to their own tracts, that are checkerboarded within BLM land.
> 
> 
> 
> Link...
> 
> They are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly arrested and made to serve prison terms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We agree. The feds are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly, arrested and thrown in prison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no the weirdos that are illegally occupying Federal property are law breaking loons who need to be confronted , arrested, given a trial , given prison sentences and ordered to pay damages and fines...........
Click to expand...

 Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, the locals are sick of the feds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so? does that give them permission to destroy federal property?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess we'll see eh?  No charges filed yet.
Click to expand...

Not yet.     *chuckle.


----------



## koshergrl

The buildings are shuttered and locked for the winter, and most of the rest of the year as well. They're not being used, nor are they used for the purpose for which they were allegedly built in the first place, which was to serve the public.

Now they're serving the public. Awesome.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> landowners from crossing their property in order to get to their own tracts, that are checkerboarded within BLM land.
> 
> 
> 
> Link...
> 
> They are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly arrested and made to serve prison terms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We agree. The feds are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly, arrested and thrown in prison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no the weirdos that are illegally occupying Federal property are law breaking loons who need to be confronted , arrested, given a trial , given prison sentences and ordered to pay damages and fines...........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.
Click to expand...

Talk on your part.  Where is the evidence?


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> The buildings are shuttered and locked for the winter, and most of the rest of the year as well. They're not being used, nor are they used for the purpose for which they were allegedly built in the first place, which was to serve the public.
> 
> Now they're serving the public. Awesome.


no, they aren't


----------



## koshergrl

Perspectives: That, boys and girls, is why we go to the source | St George News


----------



## RollingThunder

RollingThunder said:


> I think we've found the explanation for the snack shortage...


.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> landowners from crossing their property in order to get to their own tracts, that are checkerboarded within BLM land.
> 
> 
> 
> Link...
> 
> They are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly arrested and made to serve prison terms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We agree. The feds are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly, arrested and thrown in prison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no the weirdos that are illegally occupying Federal property are law breaking loons who need to be confronted , arrested, given a trial , given prison sentences and ordered to pay damages and fines...........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Talk on your part.  Where is the evidence?
Click to expand...

 Per usual, you ask for something that has already been provided multiple times, because you are too fucking stupid and lazy to read, or because you want to waste time. Either way, read the thread.


----------



## bodecea

TyroneSlothrop said:


> It is OK to take over and occupy Government building when they are not occupied......its not trespassing its just taking it over on the theory that if no one is there it is empty so its all good .....


I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> No.   When did I ever claim that someone was actually in the building when they broke in?



I realize you have the intellect of a rotting corpse, but look up what "empty" means....


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link...
> 
> They are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly arrested and made to serve prison terms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We agree. The feds are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly, arrested and thrown in prison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no the weirdos that are illegally occupying Federal property are law breaking loons who need to be confronted , arrested, given a trial , given prison sentences and ordered to pay damages and fines...........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Talk on your part.  Where is the evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per usual, you ask for something that has already been provided multiple times, because you are too fucking stupid and lazy to read, or because you want to waste time. Either way, read the thread.
Click to expand...

You provide nothing...you make stuff up.  It's what you do, Allie.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.   When did I ever claim that someone was actually in the building when they broke in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I realize you have the intellect of a rotting corpse, but look up what "empty" means....
Click to expand...

Poor Don Quixote.   Poor poor Don Quixote.


----------



## koshergrl

Oregon: Harney County United! facebook page is full of post after post after post of locals saying the Bundys aren't the ones who scare them. It's the law and the feds working together in that neck of the woods who are the cretins. Always has been.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.



But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> We agree. The feds are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly, arrested and thrown in prison.
> 
> 
> 
> no the weirdos that are illegally occupying Federal property are law breaking loons who need to be confronted , arrested, given a trial , given prison sentences and ordered to pay damages and fines...........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Talk on your part.  Where is the evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per usual, you ask for something that has already been provided multiple times, because you are too fucking stupid and lazy to read, or because you want to waste time. Either way, read the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You provide nothing...you make stuff up.  It's what you do, Allie.
Click to expand...

 I've provided more than all the rest of you retards combined. It's all in the thread already. I'm not posting the same things over and over because you're too fucking stupid to read.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> no the weirdos that are illegally occupying Federal property are law breaking loons who need to be confronted , arrested, given a trial , given prison sentences and ordered to pay damages and fines...........
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Talk on your part.  Where is the evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per usual, you ask for something that has already been provided multiple times, because you are too fucking stupid and lazy to read, or because you want to waste time. Either way, read the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You provide nothing...you make stuff up.  It's what you do, Allie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've provided more than all the rest of you retards combined. It's all in the thread already. I'm not posting the same things over and over because you're too fucking stupid to read.
Click to expand...

No you haven't.   You provide opinion only....or just make stuff up whole cloth.  It's what you do, Allie.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Wanda Moore* ‏@*WandaKTVZ* 
Grasty on cost of occupation: "This cost is $60,000 to $70,000 a day and we're going to send Mr. Bundy the bill." #*Oregonstandoff*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Militants Claim They'll Announce Exit Plan Friday*


Residents of Harney County attended a community meeting Monday night to discuss the occupation. A majority of the people at that meeting again asked the armed group to leave the refuge immediately.
Speaking at the community meeting, *Harney County Judge Steve Grasty* said he wants to bill one of the militant leaders, Ammon Bundy, for everything the occupation has cost.
Grasty said last week’s school closure and county staff time associated with the refuge occupation cost between $60,000-$75,000 per day. That’s not including the costs of more than 30 sheriffs’ deputies from other counties working in Harney County. 
*
“I’d like to send Mr. Bundy a bill for the entire cost—everything I can identify,” Grasty said. “If for no other reason than to let the world know how expensive this was for taxpayers and this nation.”*


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Oregon: Harney County United! facebook page is full of post after post after post of locals saying the Bundys aren't the ones who scare them. It's the law and the feds working together in that neck of the woods who are the cretins. Always has been.


Oh well...Facebook.....that settles it.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> no the weirdos that are illegally occupying Federal property are law breaking loons who need to be confronted , arrested, given a trial , given prison sentences and ordered to pay damages and fines...........
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Talk on your part.  Where is the evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per usual, you ask for something that has already been provided multiple times, because you are too fucking stupid and lazy to read, or because you want to waste time. Either way, read the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You provide nothing...you make stuff up.  It's what you do, Allie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *I've provided more than all the rest of you retards combined. *It's all in the thread already. I'm not posting the same things over and over because you're too fucking stupid to read.
Click to expand...

Now you've just gotten silly, Allie.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
Click to expand...


Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?


----------



## Luddly Neddite

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> no the weirdos that are illegally occupying Federal property are law breaking loons who need to be confronted , arrested, given a trial , given prison sentences and ordered to pay damages and fines...........
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Talk on your part.  Where is the evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per usual, you ask for something that has already been provided multiple times, because you are too fucking stupid and lazy to read, or because you want to waste time. Either way, read the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You provide nothing...you make stuff up.  It's what you do, Allie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've provided more than all the rest of you retards combined. It's all in the thread already. I'm not posting the same things over and over because you're too fucking stupid to read.
Click to expand...



Where?

Prove it.

You always come up with stuff as though its fact and then refuse to back it up with even one link.

But hey, here's a pic of 

[Choose one}

___ You
___ TemplarKormac 
___ Judicial review


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
Click to expand...

No one said it was a military base...but they are both federal  property.  Apparently I had to connect the dots for Don Quixote.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
Click to expand...


Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?

{Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}

18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.

Malheur National Wildlife Refuge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This isn't the Social Security office that you're used to going to, it's a back woods way station that is occasionally used by various groups such as the Audubon Society.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> No one said it was a military base...but they are both federal  property.  Apparently I had to connect the dots for Don Quixote.



I know you have the wits of a golfball, but "building a straw man" isn't "connecting the dots," shortbus.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> Malheur National Wildlife Refuge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> This isn't the Social Security office that you're used to going to, it's a back woods way station that is occasionally used by various groups such as the Audubon Society.
Click to expand...

Isn't it interesting how Don Quixote is trying so hard to excuse the taking over of federal property because it's not in a more densely populated area......as if that makes it ok or something.


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one said it was a military base...but they are both federal  property.  Apparently I had to connect the dots for Don Quixote.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know you have the wits of a golfball, but "building a straw man" isn't "connecting the dots," shortbus.
Click to expand...

So...you admit to building straw men, Don.  Progress.


----------



## Uncensored2008

bodecea said:


> So...you admit to building straw men, Don.  Progress.



What?

Okay, you've huffed enough Easyoff for one day.


----------



## koshergrl

Luddly Neddite said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.
> 
> 
> 
> Talk on your part.  Where is the evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per usual, you ask for something that has already been provided multiple times, because you are too fucking stupid and lazy to read, or because you want to waste time. Either way, read the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You provide nothing...you make stuff up.  It's what you do, Allie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've provided more than all the rest of you retards combined. It's all in the thread already. I'm not posting the same things over and over because you're too fucking stupid to read.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where?
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> You always come up with stuff as though its fact and then refuse to back it up with even one link.
> 
> But hey, here's a pic of
> 
> [Choose one}
> 
> ___ You
> ___ TemplarKormac
> ___ Judicial review
Click to expand...

 I'm not going to prove that I've already posted links in this thread, you dimwit. They're IN THE THREAD.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> landowners from crossing their property in order to get to their own tracts, that are checkerboarded within BLM land.
> 
> 
> 
> Link...
> 
> They are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly arrested and made to serve prison terms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We agree. The feds are law breaking wack jobs that need to be confronted very firmly, arrested and thrown in prison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no the weirdos that are illegally occupying Federal property are law breaking loons who need to be confronted , arrested, given a trial , given prison sentences and ordered to pay damages and fines...........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.
Click to expand...



Nice meltdown!


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
Click to expand...


No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.

Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.

*Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale. For fuck's sake, *its got a visitor center and a gift shop open Monday to Thursday, 8 to 4.*

But they're only there a few weeks a year? Laughing.....you're clueless. As usual. 

Try again. This time without you making shit up.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
Click to expand...

 
They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
Click to expand...


Show me, don't tell me. As you're so eager to make shit up, I'd check if you told me the sun was shining at noon.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
Click to expand...


*Visitor Center*
The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00. 

*Benson Memorial Museum*
The museum is open from sunrise to sunset each day of the week. It contains historic taxidermy mounts of many of the birds that may be viewed in the wilds of the refuge, as well as interpretive exhibits. The museum offers an opportunity to see elusive birds up close and personal. The museum is dedicated to the memory of George Benson, the first full-time employee at the refuge.

*Hours*
The Refuge is open each day from sunrise to sunset.

Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service


----------



## Uncensored2008

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
Click to expand...


She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.

The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.


----------



## koshergrl

Uncensored2008 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
Click to expand...

 
It's US Fish and Wildlife...

Anyway, the buildings were a mess.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

*Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Closed*





Malheur National Wildlife Refuge is closed until further notice.

An unknown number of armed individuals have broken into and occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge facility near Burns, Oregon. While the situation is ongoing, the main concern is employee and public safety; we can confirm that no federal staff were in the building at the time of the initial incident. We will continue to monitor the situation for additional developments.

Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Closed - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service



Charges are no doubt forthcoming.


----------



## koshergrl

Hutch Starskey said:


> *Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Closed*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Malheur National Wildlife Refuge is closed until further notice.
> 
> An unknown number of armed individuals have broken into and occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge facility near Burns, Oregon. While the situation is ongoing, the main concern is employee and public safety; we can confirm that no federal staff were in the building at the time of the initial incident. We will continue to monitor the situation for additional developments.
> 
> Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Closed - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> 
> 
> Charges are no doubt forthcoming.


 
They weren't in the building because it was fucking closed, lol.

They're a bunch of whiny losers.


----------



## Skylar

Uncensored2008 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
Click to expand...


LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4? 

Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this. 

*You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*

Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.

Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's US Fish and Wildlife...
> 
> Anyway, the buildings were a mess.
Click to expand...

Funny, seems like we were told they were in great shape and being kept that way by the trespassers. Where are these videos that show them to be a mess and rat infested?


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's US Fish and Wildlife...
> 
> Anyway, the buildings were a mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, seems like we were told they were in great shape and being kept that way by the trespassers. Where are these videos that show them to be a mess and rat infested?
Click to expand...

 No, we weren't told any such thing, liar. We were told by the locals that they had never seen it so clean.

But what they found when they went in was rat shit, dead rodents, and stuff that was chewed up.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Closed*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Malheur National Wildlife Refuge is closed until further notice.
> 
> An unknown number of armed individuals have broken into and occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge facility near Burns, Oregon. While the situation is ongoing, the main concern is employee and public safety; we can confirm that no federal staff were in the building at the time of the initial incident. We will continue to monitor the situation for additional developments.
> 
> Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Closed - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> 
> 
> Charges are no doubt forthcoming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't in the building because it was fucking closed, lol.
> 
> They're a bunch of whiny losers.
Click to expand...


They weren't in the building because it was New Years weekend.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Closed*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Malheur National Wildlife Refuge is closed until further notice.
> 
> An unknown number of armed individuals have broken into and occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge facility near Burns, Oregon. While the situation is ongoing, the main concern is employee and public safety; we can confirm that no federal staff were in the building at the time of the initial incident. We will continue to monitor the situation for additional developments.
> 
> Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Closed - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> 
> 
> Charges are no doubt forthcoming.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They weren't in the building because it was fucking closed, lol.
> 
> They're a bunch of whiny losers.
Click to expand...




koshergrl said:


> They weren't in the building because it was fucking closed, lol.
> 
> They're a bunch of whiny losers.



Closed for the holiday fool.
Why do you suppose Y'all Keeda chose that day?

Whiny losers?
Oh you mean like this........


koshergrl said:


> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's US Fish and Wildlife...
> 
> Anyway, the buildings were a mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, seems like we were told they were in great shape and being kept that way by the trespassers. Where are these videos that show them to be a mess and rat infested?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, we weren't told any such thing, liar. We were told by the locals that they had never seen it so clean.
> 
> But what they found when they went in was rat shit, dead rodents, and stuff that was chewed up.
Click to expand...


And where are the videos, Kosher?


----------



## Skylar

Hutch Starskey said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Visitor Center*
> The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00.
> 
> *Benson Memorial Museum*
> The museum is open from sunrise to sunset each day of the week. It contains historic taxidermy mounts of many of the birds that may be viewed in the wilds of the refuge, as well as interpretive exhibits. The museum offers an opportunity to see elusive birds up close and personal. The museum is dedicated to the memory of George Benson, the first full-time employee at the refuge.
> 
> *Hours*
> The Refuge is open each day from sunrise to sunset.
> 
> Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Click to expand...


You can't expect Quixote to actually know what the fuck he's talking about. 

After all, these hapless fools are literally making this shit up as they go along.

My favorite was JC's insistence that if they aren't in the building for 24 hours....its abandoned. And thus can't hold any records.

Just.....wtf?


----------



## Hutch Starskey

Skylar said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Visitor Center*
> The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00.
> 
> *Benson Memorial Museum*
> The museum is open from sunrise to sunset each day of the week. It contains historic taxidermy mounts of many of the birds that may be viewed in the wilds of the refuge, as well as interpretive exhibits. The museum offers an opportunity to see elusive birds up close and personal. The museum is dedicated to the memory of George Benson, the first full-time employee at the refuge.
> 
> *Hours*
> The Refuge is open each day from sunrise to sunset.
> 
> Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can't expect Quixote to actually know what the fuck he's talking about.
> 
> After all, these hapless fools are literally making this shit up as they go along.
> 
> My favorite was JC's insistence that if they aren't in the building for 24 hours....its abandoned. And thus can't hold any records.
> 
> Just.....wtf?
Click to expand...


That JC cat is straight up looney tunes and
Unmitigated2OOL is, well,  just that.


----------



## Camp

That place is an American Treasure. According to this source, it gets 65,000 visitors a year. Pretty good for an isolated place in the middle of nowhere. The historical buildings currently under the control of uninvited trespassers were built during the Great Depression by the CCC, the Civilian Conservation Corp. The George Benson Museum, part of the complex houses among other things, 200 mounted birds that represent birds that migrate and or live on the preserve. 

traveloregon.com/trip-ideas/itineraries/a-birds-eye-view/


----------



## Skylar

Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.

Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?


 
I've produced multiple videos.

But here's another:

 Video at the link:
BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*CodeSwitch* ‏@*Code_switcher* 
#*VanillaISIS* Want to make sure I got it. Did armed white guys take over public property demanding free stuff?


----------



## Faun

Uncensored2008 said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am starting to wonder if some of these folks sat back and applauded how the .gov handled Ruby ridge and Waco.  Thrilled over the spilling of blood.  Cheered the .gov on.  Saddened that the .gov did not escalate the same way at the Bundy ranch, and other not so publicized events since.  I really think that some of you folks like to see the .gov go and kill our own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of them did. An FBI assassin murdering a woman as she held an infant is exactly the kind of world the left dreams of.
> 
> The basic premise of the left is that your life belongs to the state, thus the state can do anything they like with or to you.
Click to expand...

Putz.... the FBI was run under a rightie president when that woman was shot. WTF is wrong with you?


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
Click to expand...


And where, pray tell, are the youtube videos that show that the Malheur NWR's buildings are filtthy and rat infested?

Because its snowing in Oregon. And the videos you've produced are in the summer time.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where, pray tell, are the youtube videos that show that the Malheur NWR's buildings are filtthy and rat infested?
> 
> Because its snowing in Oregon. And the videos you've produced are in the summer time.
Click to expand...

The walk through of the rat infested buildings are on facebook.

Not that it matters. That video that I put there shows the fires around private property, houses and animals that the feds set in JULY. That is why the locals hate them.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where, pray tell, are the youtube videos that show that the Malheur NWR's buildings are filtthy and rat infested?
> 
> Because its snowing in Oregon. And the videos you've produced are in the summer time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The walk through of the rat infested buildings are on facebook.
Click to expand...


Really, because you just said they were on youtube.

Why did your story just change. And why can't you show us anything you're claiming?

Your arguments are always exquisitely sourced and utterly irrefutable......*until we actually ask to see your evidence. *Then we get excuses why you can't back your claims.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where, pray tell, are the youtube videos that show that the Malheur NWR's buildings are filtthy and rat infested?
> 
> Because its snowing in Oregon. And the videos you've produced are in the summer time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The walk through of the rat infested buildings are on facebook.
> 
> Not that it matters. That video that I put there shows the fires around private property, houses and animals that the feds set in JULY. That is why the locals hate them.
Click to expand...

OK, some of us have access to facebook. Where are they on face book?


----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
Click to expand...



That video is an absolute misrepresentation of the truth. Not surprising that you presented it as something else. 

It was firefighters lighting backfires in an attempt to SAVE property. The entire region was given warnings to evacuate days earlier. There was no deliberate acts done against anyone.

Wildfire near Frenchglen, Oregon hammered by aerial assault


----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where, pray tell, are the youtube videos that show that the Malheur NWR's buildings are filtthy and rat infested?
> 
> Because its snowing in Oregon. And the videos you've produced are in the summer time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The walk through of the rat infested buildings are on facebook.
> 
> Not that it matters. That video that I put there shows the fires around private property, houses and animals that the feds set in JULY. That is why the locals hate them.
Click to expand...



Why did the feds set those fires?


----------



## Camp

Here we go. I found this on youtube. The first 2 minutes is of some guys talking on the porch. Go ahead to about 2:05 and take a walk inside the "rat-infested" building Koshergirl is maybe talking about.

youtube.com/watch?v=uqaYAsEbisw


----------



## Skylar

Camp said:


> Here we go. I found this on youtube. The first 2 minutes is of some guys talking on the porch. Go ahead to about 2:05 and take a walk inside the "rat-infested" building Koshergirl is maybe talking about.
> 
> youtube.com/watch?v=uqaYAsEbisw



That's the most generic kitchen humanly imaginable.


----------



## koshergrl

Hutch Starskey said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where, pray tell, are the youtube videos that show that the Malheur NWR's buildings are filtthy and rat infested?
> 
> Because its snowing in Oregon. And the videos you've produced are in the summer time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The walk through of the rat infested buildings are on facebook.
> 
> Not that it matters. That video that I put there shows the fires around private property, houses and animals that the feds set in JULY. That is why the locals hate them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the feds set those fires?
Click to expand...

According to the story, for the same reason the Hammonds did...according to eyewitnesses, they deliberately targeted property owners, lit it up, then didn't stay to tend them.


----------



## xband

That standoff has turned into a Piute vs Rancher fight in Oregon.  Let both of them hear the bees buzz and both will change their simple minds.
edit: it is the bullet you don't hear that kills you


----------



## jon_berzerk

TyroneSlothrop said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe because in oregon
> 
> they are not chanting fuck the police
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *true they are only saying that if the law enforcers come they will shoot them..........a threat to law enforcement is OK though when the skins are white.......*
Click to expand...



where do you get your stupid shit from


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> According to the story, for the same reason the Hammonds did...according to eyewitnesses, they deliberately targeted property owners, lit it up, then didn't stay to tend them.


Here is what witnesses said: 

The Many Hypocrisies of the Oregon Standoff

The 2001 fire, a jury found, was *set to conceal the illegal slaughter of deer *on Bureau of Land Management property. Here is the government account of this incident:
“*Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds,* testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out ‘Strike Anywhere’ matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to ‘light up the whole country on fire.’ One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  … *Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.”*​


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where, pray tell, are the youtube videos that show that the Malheur NWR's buildings are filtthy and rat infested?
> 
> Because its snowing in Oregon. And the videos you've produced are in the summer time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The walk through of the rat infested buildings are on facebook.
> 
> Not that it matters. That video that I put there shows the fires around private property, houses and animals that the feds set in JULY. That is why the locals hate them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the feds set those fires?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> According to the story, for the same reason the Hammonds did...according to eyewitnesses, they deliberately targeted property owners, lit it up, then didn't stay to tend them.
Click to expand...


Eyewitnesses with an agenda similar to yours. There were hundreds of firefighters on the scene fighting that fire for days. The region was given evacuation warnings. Those ranchers said their cattle were burned out on the range. Why were they out there at all with wildfires in the area?  The ranchers should have rounded them up sooner. Firefighters do their best to save property but aren't always successful. To say that any firefighter deliberately destroyed property is not only dishonest but straight up crazy.


----------



## Faun

TyroneSlothrop said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the story, for the same reason the Hammonds did...according to eyewitnesses, they deliberately targeted property owners, lit it up, then didn't stay to tend them.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what witnesses said:
> 
> The Many Hypocrisies of the Oregon Standoff
> 
> The 2001 fire, a jury found, was *set to conceal the illegal slaughter of deer *on Bureau of Land Management property. Here is the government account of this incident:
> “*Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds,* testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out ‘Strike Anywhere’ matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to ‘light up the whole country on fire.’ One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  … *Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.”*​
Click to expand...

Ya gotta remember,  in koshergrl's case, it's _nutters of a feather, chock together._


----------



## strollingbones

they are vandalizing and threatening the game agents...time to clean out this rat's nest ....


----------



## strollingbones

and the families of game agents


----------



## koshergrl

strollingbones said:


> and the families of game agents


They haven't threatened a soul. Most of the game agents are locals, as they have said repeatedly, and they don't have an issue with them. As they have said repeatedly.


----------



## koshergrl

strollingbones said:


> they are vandalizing and threatening the game agents...time to clean out this rat's nest ....


Also a lie. They have cleaned it up already. The rats are the feds.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*George Washington would not side with the West's sagebrush rebels*

The armed militants who have taken over a national wildlife refuge in southeast Oregon need to study their country’s earliest history. They justify their actions with a bogus interpretation of American law rooted in ideas born in the Reconstruction-era South that essentially denies the authority of the federal government to do much of anything. These misguided sagebrush rebels need to learn that *the issue of the central government’s power was largely settled back when George Washington was president. *

In order to help pay off the big national and state debts incurred during the American Revolution, Washington’s treasury secretary, Alexander Hamilton, proposed a tax on whiskey and other distilled spirits that Congress approved in 1790. The reaction to the tax out on the Western frontier — which, in those days, was Kentucky and western Pennsylvania — was negative and violent. Militias were formed, tax collectors were tarred and feathered, supporters of the tax were driven out of communities and armed confrontations ended with property destroyed and people killed.

This insurrection came to be known as the Whiskey Rebellion and it did not die down until Washington sent in a federalized militia force numbering close to 13,000 men.


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the story, for the same reason the Hammonds did...according to eyewitnesses, they deliberately targeted property owners, lit it up, then didn't stay to tend them.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what witnesses said:
> 
> The Many Hypocrisies of the Oregon Standoff
> 
> The 2001 fire, a jury found, was *set to conceal the illegal slaughter of deer *on Bureau of Land Management property. Here is the government account of this incident:
> “*Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds,* testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out ‘Strike Anywhere’ matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to ‘light up the whole country on fire.’ One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  … *Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.”*​
Click to expand...

A lie that was rejected by the judge in the trial.


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *George Washington would not side with the West's sagebrush rebels*
> 
> The armed militants who have taken over a national wildlife refuge in southeast Oregon need to study their country’s earliest history. They justify their actions with a bogus interpretation of American law rooted in ideas born in the Reconstruction-era South that essentially denies the authority of the federal government to do much of anything. These misguided sagebrush rebels need to learn that *the issue of the central government’s power was largely settled back when George Washington was president. *
> 
> In order to help pay off the big national and state debts incurred during the American Revolution, Washington’s treasury secretary, Alexander Hamilton, proposed a tax on whiskey and other distilled spirits that Congress approved in 1790. The reaction to the tax out on the Western frontier — which, in those days, was Kentucky and western Pennsylvania — was negative and violent. Militias were formed, tax collectors were tarred and feathered, supporters of the tax were driven out of communities and armed confrontations ended with property destroyed and people killed.
> 
> This insurrection came to be known as the Whiskey Rebellion and it did not die down until Washington sent in a federalized militia force numbering close to 13,000 men.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the story, for the same reason the Hammonds did...according to eyewitnesses, they deliberately targeted property owners, lit it up, then didn't stay to tend them.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what witnesses said:
> 
> The Many Hypocrisies of the Oregon Standoff
> 
> The 2001 fire, a jury found, was *set to conceal the illegal slaughter of deer *on Bureau of Land Management property. Here is the government account of this incident:
> “*Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds,* testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out ‘Strike Anywhere’ matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to ‘light up the whole country on fire.’ One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  … *Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.”*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A lie that was rejected by the judge in the trial.
Click to expand...

*They were convicted in a Court of Law twice for arson, something  that speaks for itself....*


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> and the families of game agents
> 
> 
> 
> They haven't threatened a soul. Most of the game agents are locals, as they have said repeatedly, and they don't have an issue with them. As they have said repeatedly.
Click to expand...

Almost all of the militia and antagonist are not local, they are outsiders who don't care about our employees being local.


----------



## Old Rocks

Kosher is a lying little bitch. Sheriff West's wife has had the tires on her car slashed. There have been threats against the life of Sheriff West. And the locos have repeatedly stated their intent to kill anyone that tries to remove them from the Game Refuge. These are terrorists, following the very definition of terrorism, and they need to be handled in that manner. Those that survive should spend the rest of their live in jail.

They were never about the Hammond's, they were seeking something to hang their hat on, so they could pursue their perverse agenda. Time for them to be taken out of that Refuge, in whatever manner it takes.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Camp

Someone, please explain why ranchers are supposed to have rights to public land that supersedes the rights of all other citizens. In addition, can someone please explain who elected the Bundy's and militia to determine how this public land is to be used, managed, etc. 
Thank you.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Me and a group of armed patriots with bongs and pipes are on our way to Mississippi to occupy the Government marijuana farms and grow house ...*.Free the Weed...its like sagebrush but way better.... *

Feds Increase Cannabis Production At Mississippi Farm




Most people don’t know that the federal government grows and supplies medical cannabis to four patients enrolled in the Compassionate Investigational New Drug program. The program had more patients when it started in the 1970-s, but there are four patients grandfathered into the program that still receive medical cannabis to this day. The cannabis is grown at the University of Mississippi. Considering the federal government’s official position is that cannabis has no medical value, the existence of such a program is a slap in the face to science, logic, and compassion.​
Recently the United States government boosted production at the facility. Per Marijuana Business Daily:​Researchers there are hoping to produce 30,000 new plants, which will be used primarily for medical marijuana research. One researcher at the facility is pursuing a study of cannabidiol.
The increase comes after the DEA approved plans to boost the government’s annual production of marijuana from 21 kilograms to 650 kilograms, which equates to about 1,433 pounds.​


----------



## bodecea

Uncensored2008 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...you admit to building straw men, Don.  Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What?
> 
> Okay, you've huffed enough Easyoff for one day.
Click to expand...

Another windmill to tilt, eh Don?


----------



## Camp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Me and a group of armed patriots with bongs and pipes are on our way to Mississippi to occupy the Government marijuana farms and grow house ...*.Free the Weed...its like sagebrush but way better.... *
> 
> Feds Increase Cannabis Production At Mississippi Farm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most people don’t know that the federal government grows and supplies medical cannabis to four patients enrolled in the Compassionate Investigational New Drug program. The program had more patients when it started in the 1970-s, but there are four patients grandfathered into the program that still receive medical cannabis to this day. The cannabis is grown at the University of Mississippi. Considering the federal government’s official position is that cannabis has no medical value, the existence of such a program is a slap in the face to science, logic, and compassion.​
> Recently the United States government boosted production at the facility. Per Marijuana Business Daily:​Researchers there are hoping to produce 30,000 new plants, which will be used primarily for medical marijuana research. One researcher at the facility is pursuing a study of cannabidiol.
> The increase comes after the DEA approved plans to boost the government’s annual production of marijuana from 21 kilograms to 650 kilograms, which equates to about 1,433 pounds.​


The takeover of such a facility would create an epic call for snacks, the likes of which would make the Malheur Refuge folks begging for snacks look pitiful and trivial.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the story, for the same reason the Hammonds did...according to eyewitnesses, they deliberately targeted property owners, lit it up, then didn't stay to tend them.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what witnesses said:
> 
> The Many Hypocrisies of the Oregon Standoff
> 
> The 2001 fire, a jury found, was *set to conceal the illegal slaughter of deer *on Bureau of Land Management property. Here is the government account of this incident:
> “*Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds,* testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out ‘Strike Anywhere’ matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to ‘light up the whole country on fire.’ One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  … *Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.”*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A lie that was rejected by the judge in the trial.
Click to expand...

That's why they were convicted, right?


----------



## koshergrl

There are a lot of jobless progressive plants freezing their asses off in burns right now. Losers like old fag....I'm fairly certain that it wasn't one of the guys out at the refuge who slashed the sheriff's wife's tires. 

But it's true....The locals are disgusted with the sheriff and the false narrative that goobers like old fag are assigning.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Camp said:


> The takeover of such a facility would create an epic call for snacks, the likes of which would make the Malheur Refuge folks begging for snacks look pitiful and trivial.



It would create a huge sucking black hole of snacks from which not even Ding dongs could escape.......


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> There are a lot of jobless progressive plants freezing their asses off in burns right now. Losers like old fag....I'm fairly certain that it wasn't one of the guys out at the refuge who slashed the sheriff's wife's tires.
> 
> But it's true....The locals are disgusted with the sheriff and the false narrative that goobers like old fag are assigning.


Over 100K in earnings for 2015, how was your financial year, Kosher?  4 weeks of vacation time spent traveling to interesting places. Another 15 credits towards a degree. What did you accomplish, Kosher? LOL So you approve of slashing the tires of the wife of the Harney County Sheriff. Figures.


----------



## Old Rocks

Time to seal off the Refuge, no one, and nothing, in or out. Acceptable terms for those in there, unconditional surrender. All adults to be charged to the full extent of the law.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of jobless progressive plants freezing their asses off in burns right now. Losers like old fag....I'm fairly certain that it wasn't one of the guys out at the refuge who slashed the sheriff's wife's tires.
> 
> But it's true....The locals are disgusted with the sheriff and the false narrative that goobers like old fag are assigning.
> 
> 
> 
> Over 100K in earnings for 2015, how was your financial year, Kosher?  4 weeks of vacation time spent traveling to interesting places. Another 15 credits towards a degree. What did you accomplish, Kosher? LOL So you approve of slashing the tires of the wife of the Harney County Sheriff. Figures.
Click to expand...

 whatever you say, loser l.


----------



## bodecea

Skylar said:


> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?


You might have better luck calling her by Allie.....


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> There are a lot of jobless progressive plants freezing their asses off in burns right now. Losers like old fag....I'm fairly certain that it wasn't one of the guys out at the refuge who slashed the sheriff's wife's tires.
> 
> But it's true....The locals are disgusted with the sheriff and the false narrative that goobers like old fag are assigning.


Want to bet? The people in the Refuge have been in and out of Burns. They have been given the gift of rope, and have used it well. Now the whole nation sees them for the idiotic terrorists they are. And the locals are getting pretty damned fed up with them.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Time to seal off the Refuge, no one, and nothing, in or out. Acceptable terms for those in there, unconditional surrender. All adults to be charged to the full extent of the law.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of jobless progressive plants freezing their asses off in burns right now. Losers like old fag....I'm fairly certain that it wasn't one of the guys out at the refuge who slashed the sheriff's wife's tires.
> 
> But it's true....The locals are disgusted with the sheriff and the false narrative that goobers like old fag are assigning.
> 
> 
> 
> Want to bet? The people in the Refuge have been in and out of Burns. They have been given the gift of rope, and have used it well. Now the whole nation sees them for the idiotic terrorists they are. And the locals are getting pretty damned fed up with them.
Click to expand...

Lol. I'm sure they're running around at night slashing tires. Where were you that night???


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of jobless progressive plants freezing their asses off in burns right now. Losers like old fag....I'm fairly certain that it wasn't one of the guys out at the refuge who slashed the sheriff's wife's tires.
> 
> But it's true....The locals are disgusted with the sheriff and the false narrative that goobers like old fag are assigning.
> 
> 
> 
> Over 100K in earnings for 2015, how was your financial year, Kosher?  4 weeks of vacation time spent traveling to interesting places. Another 15 credits towards a degree. What did you accomplish, Kosher? LOL So you approve of slashing the tires of the wife of the Harney County Sheriff. Figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> whatever you say, loser l.
Click to expand...

LOL. Just keeping prattling on, Kosher. The more you post, the more that people see you and those like you for what you are. You claim all these there are backing the terrorists, yet when called upon to produce the evidence you say is there, you don't. But Skylar and the rest have repeatedly produced Youtube videos in which the locals are stating they want those armed idiots out of their County.


----------



## bodecea

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of jobless progressive plants freezing their asses off in burns right now. Losers like old fag....I'm fairly certain that it wasn't one of the guys out at the refuge who slashed the sheriff's wife's tires.
> 
> But it's true....The locals are disgusted with the sheriff and the false narrative that goobers like old fag are assigning.
> 
> 
> 
> Want to bet? The people in the Refuge have been in and out of Burns. They have been given the gift of rope, and have used it well. Now the whole nation sees them for the idiotic terrorists they are. And the locals are getting pretty damned fed up with them.
Click to expand...

"the gift of rope"....well said.


----------



## bodecea

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of jobless progressive plants freezing their asses off in burns right now. Losers like old fag....I'm fairly certain that it wasn't one of the guys out at the refuge who slashed the sheriff's wife's tires.
> 
> But it's true....The locals are disgusted with the sheriff and the false narrative that goobers like old fag are assigning.
> 
> 
> 
> Over 100K in earnings for 2015, how was your financial year, Kosher?  4 weeks of vacation time spent traveling to interesting places. Another 15 credits towards a degree. What did you accomplish, Kosher? LOL So you approve of slashing the tires of the wife of the Harney County Sheriff. Figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> whatever you say, loser l.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Just keeping prattling on, Kosher. The more you post, the more that people see you and those like you for what you are. You claim all these there are backing the terrorists, yet when called upon to produce the evidence you say is there, you don't. But Skylar and the rest have repeatedly produced Youtube videos in which the locals are stating they want those armed idiots out of their County.
Click to expand...

Now now...Allie says she's provided more evidence than all the rest of us put together.  Not quite sure where she provided it....but, you know, she says she's done it.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of jobless progressive plants freezing their asses off in burns right now. Losers like old fag....I'm fairly certain that it wasn't one of the guys out at the refuge who slashed the sheriff's wife's tires.
> 
> But it's true....The locals are disgusted with the sheriff and the false narrative that goobers like old fag are assigning.
> 
> 
> 
> Over 100K in earnings for 2015, how was your financial year, Kosher?  4 weeks of vacation time spent traveling to interesting places. Another 15 credits towards a degree. What did you accomplish, Kosher? LOL So you approve of slashing the tires of the wife of the Harney County Sheriff. Figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> whatever you say, loser l.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Just keeping prattling on, Kosher. The more you post, the more that people see you and those like you for what you are. You claim all these there are backing the terrorists, yet when called upon to produce the evidence you say is there, you don't. But Skylar and the rest have repeatedly produced Youtube videos in which the locals are stating they want those armed idiots out of their County.
Click to expand...

Man reads lengthy, topical poem at Harney County community meeting


----------



## Old Rocks

LOL. Did he have flowers in his hair? Sounds like something right out of the '60's in San Francisco. Maybe in marked the end of each quatrain with a shot from his AK or AR? LOL


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> LOL. Did he have flowers in his hair? Sounds like something right out of the '60's in San Francisco. Maybe in marked the end of each quatrain with a shot from his AK or AR? LOL


If you listened to it, you would hear exactly the same things I say....And you would have heard the cheers of the packed community meeting attendees.

 Though I have to admit, you've stopped putting forth your previous lies about the community being at odds with the occupation. Now your on to new ones, but at least you had the sense in the face of undeniable evidence that you were lying to drop that line.


----------



## Camp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The takeover of such a facility would create an epic call for snacks, the likes of which would make the Malheur Refuge folks begging for snacks look pitiful and trivial.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would create a huge sucking black hole of snacks from which not even Ding dongs could escape.......
Click to expand...

I am thinking, cases of Betty Crocker Brownie Mix.


koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of jobless progressive plants freezing their asses off in burns right now. Losers like old fag....I'm fairly certain that it wasn't one of the guys out at the refuge who slashed the sheriff's wife's tires.
> 
> But it's true....The locals are disgusted with the sheriff and the false narrative that goobers like old fag are assigning.
> 
> 
> 
> Over 100K in earnings for 2015, how was your financial year, Kosher?  4 weeks of vacation time spent traveling to interesting places. Another 15 credits towards a degree. What did you accomplish, Kosher? LOL So you approve of slashing the tires of the wife of the Harney County Sheriff. Figures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> whatever you say, loser l.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Just keeping prattling on, Kosher. The more you post, the more that people see you and those like you for what you are. You claim all these there are backing the terrorists, yet when called upon to produce the evidence you say is there, you don't. But Skylar and the rest have repeatedly produced Youtube videos in which the locals are stating they want those armed idiots out of their County.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Man reads lengthy, topical poem at Harney County community meeting
Click to expand...

What language is he blabbering? Interpret his poem of whatever for us. What is he saying?


----------



## strollingbones

Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour


----------



## koshergrl

strollingbones said:


> Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour


PBS lies, and that was from the first few days. I've posted multiple videos that show the reality.

The Stetson Rebellion and the Myth of the Welfare Cowboy


----------



## bodecea

strollingbones said:


> Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour


Welcome to outside the Flame Zone, SB.......slumming?


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour
> 
> 
> 
> PBS lies, and that was from the first few days. I've posted multiple videos that show the reality.
> 
> The Stetson Rebellion and the Myth of the Welfare Cowboy
Click to expand...

No you haven't posted "multiple videos", Allie.


----------



## koshergrl

And just so you know...I come by all the material I've posted via the people who live there. Including the huffpo piece.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour
> 
> 
> 
> PBS lies, and that was from the first few days. I've posted multiple videos that show the reality.
> 
> The Stetson Rebellion and the Myth of the Welfare Cowboy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No you haven't posted "multiple videos", Allie.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have. I've posted at least three videos in the last day alone of locals speaking out against federal tyranny and in support of the bundys. To packed houses and the cheers and whoops of locals.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

"...a little rebellion now and then is a good thing..." [*but not if it involves "The Negro"*]
--Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Locals Claim Outsiders Harassing Them Since Before Oregon Standoff Began*


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> And just so you know...I come by all the material I've posted via the people who live there. Including the huffpo piece.


Riiiiight.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour
> 
> 
> 
> PBS lies, and that was from the first few days. I've posted multiple videos that show the reality.
> 
> The Stetson Rebellion and the Myth of the Welfare Cowboy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No you haven't posted "multiple videos", Allie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, I have. I've posted at least three videos in the last day alone of locals speaking out against federal tyranny and in support of the bundys. To packed houses and the cheers and whoops of locals.
Click to expand...


----------



## strollingbones

bodecea said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome to outside the Flame Zone, SB.......slumming?
Click to expand...


i venture out on occasion.....only to find that it is really crazy out here...then i go home..they are all fighting right now.....lol


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour
> 
> 
> 
> PBS lies, and that was from the first few days. I've posted multiple videos that show the reality.
> 
> The Stetson Rebellion and the Myth of the Welfare Cowboy
Click to expand...

Bundy and his buddy can't hold up in there forever. And the best part of this is... When it's all over, they will be going either to jail or to the morgue.


----------



## Dot Com

The locals must hate deadbeats as much as I do. 

The Decline of the Bundy Rebellion


> At a community meeting Monday night in the town of Burns, residents vented their frustrations with the militia led by Ammon and Ryan Bundy, which has occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. “Our community does not want you here,” Mayor Craig LaFollette said. “Leave peacefully and soon.” Teenagers spoke of their fear of leaving home. One resident, Dave Brown was blunter: “There's enough crazies in this county to throw your ass out.”


----------



## Dot Com

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> strollingbones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon residents in packed town hall want armed militia to leave | PBS NewsHour
> 
> 
> 
> PBS lies, and that was from the first few days. I've posted multiple videos that show the reality.
> 
> The Stetson Rebellion and the Myth of the Welfare Cowboy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bundy and his buddy can't hold up in there forever. And the best part of this is... When it's all over, they will be going either to jail or to the morgue.
Click to expand...

They will have the bill to pay that the sheriff & mayor drew-up.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Militia occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge*

*By late 2015, the Hammond case had attracted the attention of members of the family of Cliven Bundy, including sons Ammon and Ryan. The Bundys publicized the situation via social media, drawing interest from militia groups outside Oregon who sought to publicly endorse the Hammonds to draw attention to unrelated issues.[29][40]  The Hammonds rejected the offers of assistance with Hammond attorney W. Alan Schroeder writing that "neither Ammon Bundy nor anyone within his group/organization speak for the Hammond family."[3]When later asked about the occupation, Susan Hammond, the wife of Dwight Hammond, was dismissive and said, "I don't really know the purpose of the guys who are out there."[41]

Harney County sheriff David Ward agreed to meet with the militia members who requested the sheriff's office protect the Hammonds from being taken into custody by federal authorities. Though Ward said he sympathized with the Hammonds' plight, he declined the militias' request. Ward said that he subsequently received death threats by email.[29]*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Huh ?
*Oregon Militiamen Appear To Be Preparing To Put Local Officials On 'Trial*


----------



## koshergrl

Yeah, the mayor, the sheriff and one weirdo judge who has had land issues with the locals want them to go. Or at least, they did. Haven't heard from the mayor and the judge recently.

The ones I have heard from..the people who live and own land there, say that the Bundys are fine and the Hammonds are the best people in the world. They hate the feds, and they hate progressive douchebags.

But there are a lot of progressive douchebags willing to lie, cheat, steal..do whatever they have to to get their hands on things that aren't theirs. The Oregonian and PBS have long been recognized progressive mouthpieces.

In the whole county there are 7000 people. They are an oppressed minority, and look who piles on...the so-called heroes of minorities everywhere.

But they aren't.


----------



## Uncensored2008

Faun said:


> Putz.... the FBI was run under a rightie president when that woman was shot. WTF is wrong with you?




How does Bush 41 being president when FBI assassin Lon Horiuchi murdered Vicki Weaver change what I posted?


----------



## Skylar

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Huh ?
> *Oregon Militiamen Appear To Be Preparing To Put Local Officials On 'Trial*





> According to the Oregonian, self-proclaimed U.S. Superior Court Judge Bruce Doucette (not a real judge) arrived in Harney County Tuesday and is readying militiamen for a big old trial.
> 
> Oregon Militiamen Appear To Be Preparing To Put Local Officials On 'Trial'



Thankfully appellant Judge Judy can overturn any ruling he makes. As can Judge Dredd and Judge Rienhold.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Yeah, the mayor, the sheriff and one weirdo judge who has had land issues with the locals want them to go. Or at least, they did. Haven't heard from the mayor and the judge recently.



The spoke a week ago. How much more recent do you want?

The majority of folks at the town meeting asked them to leave. The Governor has asked them to leave. The owners of the land have asked them to leave. The Hammonds say they have nothing to do with them. The Mayor has asked them to leave. The Sheriff has asked them to leave.

_With none of the 'militia' being locals. _But out of state carpetbaggers.

And demonstrating the lie of their 'local control' horseshit, the 'militia' have told the locals people, the local sheriff, the local mayor, even the governor of the state to go fuck themselves. *And brought in their OWN judge (not a judge, fyi) to 'try' the locals.*

With the 'judge' they've called in also not a local.

It appears that when the militia says 'local control', they mean only themselves, with 'local' being whatever county they choose to invade. These guys are wiping their ass with their own rhetoric.


----------



## Skylar

Oh, and its gets better:



> There are continual reports of law enforcement officers and community members being followed home; of people sitting in cars outside their homes, observing their movements and those of their families; and of people following them and their families as they move around the community," Ward said on Monday.
> 
> "While not direct physical threats, these activities are clearly designed to try to intimidate," he said.
> 
> Some of the armed protesters have been able to leave and return from the refuge center during the occupation.
> 
> Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says - CNN.com



Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS. 

But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.


----------



## AmericanFirst1

Carla_Danger said:


> Check out this doofus.


Self portrait? Just wondering since you called. Him a doofus, you must be his sistercuzwife.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Yeah, the mayor, the sheriff and one weirdo judge who has had land issues with the locals want them to go. Or at least, they did. Haven't heard from the mayor and the judge recently.
> 
> The ones I have heard from..the people who live and own land there, say that the Bundys are fine and the Hammonds are the best people in the world. They hate the feds, and they hate progressive douchebags.
> 
> But there are a lot of progressive douchebags willing to lie, cheat, steal..do whatever they have to to get their hands on things that aren't theirs. The Oregonian and PBS have long been recognized progressive mouthpieces.
> 
> In the whole county there are 7000 people. They are an oppressed minority, and look who piles on...the so-called heroes of minorities everywhere.
> 
> But they aren't.


Cool story, Allie.


----------



## bodecea

Skylar said:


> Oh, and its gets better:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are continual reports of law enforcement officers and community members being followed home; of people sitting in cars outside their homes, observing their movements and those of their families; and of people following them and their families as they move around the community," Ward said on Monday.
> 
> "While not direct physical threats, these activities are clearly designed to try to intimidate," he said.
> 
> Some of the armed protesters have been able to leave and return from the refuge center during the occupation.
> 
> Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS.
> 
> But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.
Click to expand...

Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?


----------



## Skylar

bodecea said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and its gets better:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are continual reports of law enforcement officers and community members being followed home; of people sitting in cars outside their homes, observing their movements and those of their families; and of people following them and their families as they move around the community," Ward said on Monday.
> 
> "While not direct physical threats, these activities are clearly designed to try to intimidate," he said.
> 
> Some of the armed protesters have been able to leave and return from the refuge center during the occupation.
> 
> Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS.
> 
> But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
Click to expand...


Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and its gets better:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are continual reports of law enforcement officers and community members being followed home; of people sitting in cars outside their homes, observing their movements and those of their families; and of people following them and their families as they move around the community," Ward said on Monday.
> 
> "While not direct physical threats, these activities are clearly designed to try to intimidate," he said.
> 
> Some of the armed protesters have been able to leave and return from the refuge center during the occupation.
> 
> Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS.
> 
> But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
Click to expand...


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and its gets better:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are continual reports of law enforcement officers and community members being followed home; of people sitting in cars outside their homes, observing their movements and those of their families; and of people following them and their families as they move around the community," Ward said on Monday.
> 
> "While not direct physical threats, these activities are clearly designed to try to intimidate," he said.
> 
> Some of the armed protesters have been able to leave and return from the refuge center during the occupation.
> 
> Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS.
> 
> But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.

But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and its gets better:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are continual reports of law enforcement officers and community members being followed home; of people sitting in cars outside their homes, observing their movements and those of their families; and of people following them and their families as they move around the community," Ward said on Monday.
> 
> "While not direct physical threats, these activities are clearly designed to try to intimidate," he said.
> 
> Some of the armed protesters have been able to leave and return from the refuge center during the occupation.
> 
> Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS.
> 
> But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
Click to expand...

 Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and its gets better:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are continual reports of law enforcement officers and community members being followed home; of people sitting in cars outside their homes, observing their movements and those of their families; and of people following them and their families as they move around the community," Ward said on Monday.
> 
> "While not direct physical threats, these activities are clearly designed to try to intimidate," he said.
> 
> Some of the armed protesters have been able to leave and return from the refuge center during the occupation.
> 
> Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS.
> 
> But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

^  See?   They still terrify Allie.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and its gets better:
> 
> Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS.
> 
> But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.
Click to expand...

Are you calling the sheriff's mother a liar?


----------



## Carla_Danger

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and its gets better:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are continual reports of law enforcement officers and community members being followed home; of people sitting in cars outside their homes, observing their movements and those of their families; and of people following them and their families as they move around the community," Ward said on Monday.
> 
> "While not direct physical threats, these activities are clearly designed to try to intimidate," he said.
> 
> Some of the armed protesters have been able to leave and return from the refuge center during the occupation.
> 
> Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS.
> 
> But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
Click to expand...



I think they dropped the charges on those Black Panthers because they were in a predominantly black neighborhood, and nobody was intimidated. But that didn't stop Fixxed News from showing that clip for two years straight.


----------



## Carla_Danger

LOL!


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you calling the sheriff's mother a liar?
Click to expand...

 
I'm calling you a liar, but that's nothing new. Everybody calls you a liar.

Meanwhile:

"Ward did not specifically identify or quantify the reports of intimidation or harassment, and did not indicate that anyone has been cited or charged with those or similar offenses."
Harney County sheriff reports increase in harassment, intimidation reports since militia’s occupation | Local | Eugene, Oregon


I've seen multiple calls for violence against locals who support the occupiers on the Oregonian's facebook timeline, in response to the garbage they post. There was one by David Davis (pfft) saying he'd pay $5000 to each person who provides him with the name, workplace and home address of people who support the bundy occupation.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you calling the sheriff's mother a liar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm calling you a liar, but that's nothing new. Everybody calls you a liar.
> 
> Meanwhile:
> 
> "Ward did not specifically identify or quantify the reports of intimidation or harassment, and did not indicate that anyone has been cited or charged with those or similar offenses."
> Harney County sheriff reports increase in harassment, intimidation reports since militia’s occupation | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> 
> I've seen multiple calls for violence against locals who support the occupiers on the Oregonian's facebook timeline, in response to the garbage they post. There was one by David Davis (pfft) saying he'd pay $5000 to each person who provides him with the name, workplace and home address of people who support the bundy occupation.
Click to expand...

#1...don't you have me on Ignore, Allie?

#2...what have I lied about?


----------



## Skylar

Carla_Danger said:


> LOL!



Laughing....is that one of those 'rat infested building' videos that Kosher went on about?

Because I don't see any rats.


----------



## Skylar

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you calling the sheriff's mother a liar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm calling you a liar, but that's nothing new. Everybody calls you a liar.
> 
> Meanwhile:
> 
> "Ward did not specifically identify or quantify the reports of intimidation or harassment, and did not indicate that anyone has been cited or charged with those or similar offenses."
> Harney County sheriff reports increase in harassment, intimidation reports since militia’s occupation | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> 
> I've seen multiple calls for violence against locals who support the occupiers on the Oregonian's facebook timeline, in response to the garbage they post. There was one by David Davis (pfft) saying he'd pay $5000 to each person who provides him with the name, workplace and home address of people who support the bundy occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1...don't you have me on Ignore, Allie?
> 
> #2...what have I lied about?
Click to expand...


You quoted the actual Sheriff of Burns rather than whatever hapless batshit that Kosher makes up. Ergo, you must be 'lying'. The word that the rest of us would use in this circumstance would be 'informed'. Just as a basis of translation.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Skylar said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laughing....is that one of those 'rat infested building' videos that Kosher went on about?
> 
> Because I don't see any rats.
Click to expand...



I see one rat.


----------



## Dot Com

Skylar said:


> Oh, and its gets better:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are continual reports of law enforcement officers and community members being followed home; of people sitting in cars outside their homes, observing their movements and those of their families; and of people following them and their families as they move around the community," Ward said on Monday.
> 
> "While not direct physical threats, these activities are clearly designed to try to intimidate," he said.
> 
> Some of the armed protesters have been able to leave and return from the refuge center during the occupation.
> 
> Oregon protesters harassing police, sheriff says - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS.
> 
> But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.
Click to expand...

Exactly. rw'ers- hypocrisy is thy name 

Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk


----------



## koshergrl

Interview with a Baker rancher who came to support the Bundy occupation.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Interview with a Baker rancher who came to support the Bundy occupation.



And where are the videos of how 'filthy' and 'rat infested' the buildings are?

You can always admit you just made that shit up. Either works.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and its gets better:
> 
> Now, contrast the rights reaction to this with the panty shitting hysterics of ONE black panther party member who stood out in front of a polling station, intimidating people. Which FOX ran with for 4 YEARS.
> 
> But white male militia thugs following cops and their families.....and not a peep.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.
Click to expand...


Says you. Citing you. And you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Meanwhile, the local Sheriff lives there and most definitely *does* know what's happening. So you ignore him, and cling to whatever fantasy you make up.

Just like Ammon.


----------



## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you calling the sheriff's mother a liar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm calling you a liar, but that's nothing new. Everybody calls you a liar.
> 
> Meanwhile:
> 
> "Ward did not specifically identify or quantify the reports of intimidation or harassment, and did not indicate that anyone has been cited or charged with those or similar offenses."
> Harney County sheriff reports increase in harassment, intimidation reports since militia’s occupation | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> 
> I've seen multiple calls for violence against locals who support the occupiers on the Oregonian's facebook timeline, in response to the garbage they post. There was one by David Davis (pfft) saying he'd pay $5000 to each person who provides him with the name, workplace and home address of people who support the bundy occupation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> #1...don't you have me on Ignore, Allie?
> 
> #2...what have I lied about?
Click to expand...

If we've learned anything in this thread, its that allie CONTINUALLY LIES about having you on ignore

As to the illegal occupiers, maybe fair play would be a big cloud of pepper spray seeing as how the rwers applauded its use during #OWS even though they had permission to be in the park 

Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk


----------



## jc456

Luddly Neddite said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again. The BLM has burned, slaughtered, destroyed, and stolen property for a hundred and more years. Time for them to go. They destroy habitat and the economy. Adios, fuckers.
> 
> 
> 
> Talk on your part.  Where is the evidence?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Per usual, you ask for something that has already been provided multiple times, because you are too fucking stupid and lazy to read, or because you want to waste time. Either way, read the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You provide nothing...you make stuff up.  It's what you do, Allie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've provided more than all the rest of you retards combined. It's all in the thread already. I'm not posting the same things over and over because you're too fucking stupid to read.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where?
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> You always come up with stuff as though its fact and then refuse to back it up with even one link.
> 
> But hey, here's a pic of
> 
> [Choose one}
> 
> ___ You
> ___ TemplarKormac
> ___ Judicial review
Click to expand...

use the search tool and learn yourself


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you. Citing you. And you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
> 
> Meanwhile, the local Sheriff lives there and most definitely *does* know what's happening. So you ignore him, and cling to whatever fantasy you make up.
> 
> Just like Ammon.
Click to expand...

 
The local sheriff is a dumbfuck and has worked for the BLM himself. The locals are fed up with him for siding with the feds. He's also cordoned off his office building, which has HIGHLY pissed off the locals.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it was two NBP members...and they STILL whine about how frightening it was.   And they didn't have guns...can you imagine the fainting spells on the RW if they'd open carried?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you. Citing you. And you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
> 
> Meanwhile, the local Sheriff lives there and most definitely *does* know what's happening. So you ignore him, and cling to whatever fantasy you make up.
> 
> Just like Ammon.
Click to expand...

he doesn't even know what the FBI is doing, so I trump you're post


----------



## Carla_Danger

I'm going to ask this again....If KoshKosh is so committed to this cause, why isn't she out there at the Turd Sanctuary supporting those morons?

Let's roll!!!


----------



## jc456

koshergrl said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Talk on your part.  Where is the evidence?
> 
> 
> 
> Per usual, you ask for something that has already been provided multiple times, because you are too fucking stupid and lazy to read, or because you want to waste time. Either way, read the thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You provide nothing...you make stuff up.  It's what you do, Allie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've provided more than all the rest of you retards combined. It's all in the thread already. I'm not posting the same things over and over because you're too fucking stupid to read.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Where?
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> You always come up with stuff as though its fact and then refuse to back it up with even one link.
> 
> But hey, here's a pic of
> 
> [Choose one}
> 
> ___ You
> ___ TemplarKormac
> ___ Judicial review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not going to prove that I've already posted links in this thread, you dimwit. They're IN THE THREAD.
Click to expand...

tell them to learn to use the search tool in the thread.


----------



## Dot Com

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interview with a Baker rancher who came to support the Bundy occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And where are the videos of how 'filthy' and 'rat infested' the buildings are?
> 
> You can always admit you just made that shit up. Either works.
Click to expand...

yeah Allie. Stop "making stuff up". The squatters have enough probs w/o your "help"

What really pisses me off is the disruption of the townspeoples daily activities [emoji35] 

Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> I'm going to ask this again....If KoshKosh is so committed to this cause, why isn't she out there at the Turd Sanctuary supporting those morons?


it's handled that's why


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you. Citing you. And you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
> 
> Meanwhile, the local Sheriff lives there and most definitely *does* know what's happening. So you ignore him, and cling to whatever fantasy you make up.
> 
> Just like Ammon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The local sheriff is a dumbfuck and has worked for the BLM himself.
Click to expand...


So now its a conspiracy! Laughing.....this keeps getting better and better. 



> The locals are fed up with him for siding with the feds. He's also cordoned off his office building, which has HIGHLY pissed off the locals.



At a town meeting the majority of folks asked the militia to leave. The mayor has asked them to leave. The sheriff asked them to leave. The Hammond's made it very clear that they had nothing to do with the militia. The Governor asked them to leave.

But instead of listening to the locals, these out of state invaders just brought in their OWN judge (predictably, from out of State, and not a judge) to start 'trying' the locals. All while following cops and their families trying to intimidate them.

So much for their calls of 'local control'. By 'local', they means themselves. And 'control', they mean by themselves. 

Oh, and I'm still waiting for those 'rat infested videos' you made up.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale. For fuck's sake, *its got a visitor center and a gift shop open Monday to Thursday, 8 to 4.*
> 
> But they're only there a few weeks a year? Laughing.....you're clueless. As usual.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
Click to expand...

how do you know anyone reports there at all? Why don't you post up the employee list?  you sure are one fk'd up libturd that's for sure.  you aren't even funny.  you're just a big ole libturd.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to ask this again....If KoshKosh is so committed to this cause, why isn't she out there at the Turd Sanctuary supporting those morons?
> 
> 
> 
> it's handled that's why
Click to expand...



Jon Ritzheimer is asking for support from patriots in his video I posted, moron.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to ask this again....If KoshKosh is so committed to this cause, why isn't she out there at the Turd Sanctuary supporting those morons?
> 
> 
> 
> it's handled that's why
Click to expand...


Oh, obviously. As demonstrated by all the call by the seditious conspirators for armed militia to invade the area. 

And bring snacks.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> [I'd like to see them try that on some unoccupied buildings on a military base.   Would be fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But this WASN'T a military base. It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of bumfuck nowhere that is occupied for maybe a couple of weeks out of the year. THAT is the point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale. For fuck's sake, *its got a visitor center and a gift shop open Monday to Thursday, 8 to 4.*
> 
> But they're only there a few weeks a year? Laughing.....you're clueless. As usual.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how do you know anyone reports there at all? Why don't you post up the employee list?  you sure are one fk'd up libturd that's for sure.  you aren't even funny.  you're just a big ole libturd.
Click to expand...


Laughing....says the 'turd' that insisted that if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours that they're 'abandoned'. And thus there can't be any records.

I think I speak for most of us when I ask......um, wtf?


----------



## Carla_Danger

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to ask this again....If KoshKosh is so committed to this cause, why isn't she out there at the Turd Sanctuary supporting those morons?
> 
> 
> 
> it's handled that's why
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, obviously. As demonstrated by all the call by the seditious conspirators for armed militia to invade the area.
> 
> And bring snacks.
Click to expand...




Where's Stephanie?  We need to roll on this!


----------



## k2skier

A bag of dicks, lmfao.

Hey outsiderS, GET OFF MY LAWN!


----------



## Skylar

k2skier said:


> A bag of dicks, lmfao.
> 
> Hey outsiderS, GET OFF MY LAWN!



I used to work at the old ILM model shop. They took on all sorts of side projects in addition to movies. Between shows I went into the shop and found all of these life sized, realistic and posable mannequins, handmade and complete with horrendous battle damage. Missing limbs, entrails, bloody broken bones, the works. And sitting next to a line of mannequins was a bag.

"Take a look" one of my buddies told me. So I did.

It was a bag of dicks. Attachable, fully realistic flaccid rubber penises, complete with pubic hair. Just a big bag of dicks.

For some reason Ammon and the Bundy thugs remind me of it.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its occupied a couple of weeks out of the year.....according to who?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
Click to expand...

well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> k2skier said:
> 
> 
> 
> A bag of dicks, lmfao.
> 
> Hey outsiderS, GET OFF MY LAWN!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used to work at the old ILM model shop. They took on all sorts of side projects in addition to movies. Between shows I went into the shop and found all of these life sized, realistic and posable mannequins, handmade and complete with horrendous battle damage. Missing limbs, entrails, bloody broken bones, the works. And sitting next to a line of mannequins was a bag.
> 
> "Take a look" one of my buddies told me. So I did.
> 
> It was a bag of dicks. Attachable, fully realistic flaccid rubber penises, complete with pubic hair. Just a big bag of dicks.
> 
> For some reason Ammon and the Bundy thugs remind me of it.
Click to expand...

cause you have dicks always on your mind.  we know.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's US Fish and Wildlife...
> 
> Anyway, the buildings were a mess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny, seems like we were told they were in great shape and being kept that way by the trespassers. Where are these videos that show them to be a mess and rat infested?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, we weren't told any such thing, liar. We were told by the locals that they had never seen it so clean.
> 
> But what they found when they went in was rat shit, dead rodents, and stuff that was chewed up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where are the videos, Kosher?
Click to expand...

where are they?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where, pray tell, are the youtube videos that show that the Malheur NWR's buildings are filtthy and rat infested?
> 
> Because its snowing in Oregon. And the videos you've produced are in the summer time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The walk through of the rat infested buildings are on facebook.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really, because you just said they were on youtube.
> 
> Why did your story just change. And why can't you show us anything you're claiming?
> 
> Your arguments are always exquisitely sourced and utterly irrefutable......*until we actually ask to see your evidence. *Then we get excuses why you can't back your claims.
Click to expand...

hey, why don't you take a leave for awhile your shit stinks.


----------



## jc456

repeat


----------



## koshergrl

Dot Com said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interview with a Baker rancher who came to support the Bundy occupation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And where are the videos of how 'filthy' and 'rat infested' the buildings are?
> 
> You can always admit you just made that shit up. Either works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah Allie. Stop "making stuff up". The squatters have enough probs w/o your "help"
> 
> What really pisses me off is the disruption of the townspeoples daily activities [emoji35]
> 
> Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

 Lolol....


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
Click to expand...

What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?


----------



## jc456

Hutch Starskey said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where, pray tell, are the youtube videos that show that the Malheur NWR's buildings are filtthy and rat infested?
> 
> Because its snowing in Oregon. And the videos you've produced are in the summer time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The walk through of the rat infested buildings are on facebook.
> 
> Not that it matters. That video that I put there shows the fires around private property, houses and animals that the feds set in JULY. That is why the locals hate them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the feds set those fires?
Click to expand...

to accuse someone else of doing it.  It is what was stated right?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

k2skier said:


> A bag of dicks, lmfao.
> 
> Hey outsiderS, GET OFF MY LAWN!


The Patriot heroes are "getting Schlonged"....


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
Click to expand...

 
What's yours, loser?


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just the one did any actual intimidating. The other just stood there and was a registered poll watcher. The Bush administration dropped charges on everyone but the one guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And exactly as I predicted.....white male militia thugs try to intimidate cops and their families by following them, and not a peep.
> 
> But a black panther at a polling station in Phili in 2008? And conservatives are still shitting their pants about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not a peep because it didn't happen. The cops are the ones following the locals around. Including kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you. Citing you. And you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
> 
> Meanwhile, the local Sheriff lives there and most definitely *does* know what's happening. So you ignore him, and cling to whatever fantasy you make up.
> 
> Just like Ammon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The local sheriff is a dumbfuck and has worked for the BLM himself. The locals are fed up with him for siding with the feds. He's also cordoned off his office building, which has HIGHLY pissed off the locals.
Click to expand...

Cool story, Allie.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the story, for the same reason the Hammonds did...according to eyewitnesses, they deliberately targeted property owners, lit it up, then didn't stay to tend them.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what witnesses said:
> 
> The Many Hypocrisies of the Oregon Standoff
> 
> The 2001 fire, a jury found, was *set to conceal the illegal slaughter of deer *on Bureau of Land Management property. Here is the government account of this incident:
> “*Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds,* testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out ‘Strike Anywhere’ matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to ‘light up the whole country on fire.’ One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  … *Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.”*​
Click to expand...

funny, can't find that fire anywhere on the internet


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever bothered to research anything you're talking about, ever?
> 
> {Today the refuge is more than 187,700 acres of wildlife habitat, including 120,000 acres of wetlands that provide a crucial stop for waterfowl along the Pacific Flyway. Colonial waterbirds, sandhill cranes, redband trout are represented. Staffed by 18 federal employees and many volunteers, Malheur has an active friends group, which has expressed concern about how respectful the occupiers are being of the property.}
> 
> 18 staff across 187.000 acres, including the lake? Yeah, they aren't spending much time in the office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.
Click to expand...


Or....and this is just a thought: *you have no idea what you're talking about. *And are just waking up from your nap.



> *Visitor Center*
> 
> The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00.
> 
> Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service



So the Visitor Center has a gift shop open Monday through Friday, but no one is there save for a few weeks a year?

Laughing.......try again.



> Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?



Just correcting the disinfo batshit and pseudo-legal gibberish you're making up. 

But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.


----------



## Old Rocks

First try the local government officials, and then move on to the ranchers that do not support the occupation of the Refuge, label them 'enemies of the people', and try them for treason, with your fake judge. Then what? LOL. 

At some point, the locals are all going to get very fed up with this, and give the miscreants an order to get out. And if the locos hurt or shoot one of the locals, they will find out how truly tough the people in that area are. Should they shoot the sheriff, then they better pray that the Feds get there in time save their asses from a rope.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to the story, for the same reason the Hammonds did...according to eyewitnesses, they deliberately targeted property owners, lit it up, then didn't stay to tend them.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is what witnesses said:
> 
> The Many Hypocrisies of the Oregon Standoff
> 
> The 2001 fire, a jury found, was *set to conceal the illegal slaughter of deer *on Bureau of Land Management property. Here is the government account of this incident:
> “*Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds,* testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out ‘Strike Anywhere’ matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to ‘light up the whole country on fire.’ One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  … *Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.”*​
Click to expand...

paper:
soda.sou.edu/awdata/080516m1.pdf

Quartz Gulch Fire
on BLM Land
AnOverview
A lightning strike ignited the
Quartz Fire on August 9, 2001.
The fire started in thick
man=anita interspersed with
saplings. just below Lick Ridge in
the Quartz Gulch drainage. The
Oregon Department ofFarestlY
announced containment of the
6.160 acre blaze on August 21,
andfull control on August 31,
2001. The Quartz Fire burned on
private land, state land. Rogue
River National Forest, and Bureau
ofLand Management (BLM)administered
land.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or....and this is just a thought: *you have no idea what you're talking about. *And are just waking up from your nap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Visitor Center*
> 
> The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00.
> 
> Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the Visitor Center has a gift shop open Monday through Friday, but no one is there save for a few weeks a year?
> 
> Laughing.......try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just correcting the disinfo batshit and pseudo-legal gibberish you're making up.
> 
> But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.
Click to expand...

Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.


it was 48 hours, I was wrong, and I stated so.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or....and this is just a thought: *you have no idea what you're talking about. *And are just waking up from your nap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Visitor Center*
> 
> The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00.
> 
> Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the Visitor Center has a gift shop open Monday through Friday, but no one is there save for a few weeks a year?
> 
> Laughing.......try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just correcting the disinfo batshit and pseudo-legal gibberish you're making up.
> 
> But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
Click to expand...

Just correcting the disinfo batshit and pseudo-legal gibberish you're making up.

But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing he's needing attention...I wonder what happens if he doesn't get it.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.
> 
> 
> 
> it was 48 hours, I was wrong, and I stated so.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Laughing...now its 48 hours, huh?

Says who? There's you, making this pseudo-legal batshit up as you go along....and who?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> No where does it say that they only work in the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. You made that up.
> 
> Even logically, your claims are gibberish. With 18 full time employees, *why would ALL of them leave the office at the exact same time? Especially when they also had many volunteers. *Remember,  the entire reserve s only 292 square miles. With it breaking down to 16 square miles per full time employee. Or roughly 4 by 4 miles each.
> 
> *Why would that mandate they visit the office only 'a few weeks a year'?* That makes no sense. Nor have you presented anything that backs your fairy tale.
> 
> Try again. This time without you making shit up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or....and this is just a thought: *you have no idea what you're talking about. *And are just waking up from your nap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Visitor Center*
> 
> The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00.
> 
> Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the Visitor Center has a gift shop open Monday through Friday, but no one is there save for a few weeks a year?
> 
> Laughing.......try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just correcting the disinfo batshit and pseudo-legal gibberish you're making up.
> 
> But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.
Click to expand...

You're just someone with no place to go, bored in your basement trying to create something and failing miserably.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.
> 
> 
> 
> it was 48 hours, I was wrong, and I stated so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing...now its 48 hours, huh?
> 
> Says who? There's you, making this pseudo-legal batshit up as you go along....and who?
Click to expand...

I posted it whack a mole. Maybe you could learn to read. oh and use that there search tool provided herein


----------



## bodecea

TyroneSlothrop said:


> k2skier said:
> 
> 
> 
> A bag of dicks, lmfao.
> 
> Hey outsiderS, GET OFF MY LAWN!
> 
> 
> 
> The Patriot heroes are "getting Schlonged"....
Click to expand...

Winner!


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or....and this is just a thought: *you have no idea what you're talking about. *And are just waking up from your nap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Visitor Center*
> 
> The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00.
> 
> Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the Visitor Center has a gift shop open Monday through Friday, but no one is there save for a few weeks a year?
> 
> Laughing.......try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just correcting the disinfo batshit and pseudo-legal gibberish you're making up.
> 
> But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're just someone with no place to go, bored in your basement trying to create something and failing miserably.
Click to expand...


I'm someone who is informed. And that puts me head and shoulders ahead of you. As you have no idea what you're talking about. Nor can back up any of your pseudo-legal batshit.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm guessing he's needing attention...I wonder what happens if he doesn't get it.
Click to expand...

naw I like to go after dirtbag libturds who think their condescending styles are important.  which of course everyone here knows they aren't.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

jc456 said:


> You're just someone with no place to go, bored in your basement trying to create something and failing miserably.



You are just frustrated and exhausted from your struggle to make chicken salad out of the wing nut chicken shit in Oregon ......


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or....and this is just a thought: *you have no idea what you're talking about. *And are just waking up from your nap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Visitor Center*
> 
> The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00.
> 
> Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the Visitor Center has a gift shop open Monday through Friday, but no one is there save for a few weeks a year?
> 
> Laughing.......try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just correcting the disinfo batshit and pseudo-legal gibberish you're making up.
> 
> But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're just someone with no place to go, bored in your basement trying to create something and failing miserably.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm someone who is informed. And that puts me head and shoulders ahead of you. As you have no idea what you're talking about. Nor can back up any of your pseudo-legal batshit.
Click to expand...

sure you are, you merely think you are, it is something every libturd goes through


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They've posted  videos of the inside of the government buildings...they are rat infested and disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's yours, loser?
Click to expand...

Oh, I have been visiting National Wildlife Refuges, Parks, Forest, Monuments and BLM lands for my whole life. I have a great interest in preserving our scenic wonders and natural resources. I questioned the poster because he questioned another poster. I think the poster was being rude so I was rude to him.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're just someone with no place to go, bored in your basement trying to create something and failing miserably.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are just frustrated and exhausted from your struggle to make chicken salad out of the wing nut chicken shit in Oregon ......
Click to expand...

the only ones frustrated are you and your peers with your petty  posts about nothing you know anything about.  funny shit you post up like you live there.  But alas, your mere libturds with nothing to do, we all know this.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She knows, she's desperately grasping at straws to try and keep the Soros script alive.
> 
> The Audubon people are the ones who use the building the most, which is why it wasn't locked. They run the little museum, not the BLM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's yours, loser?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I have been visiting National Wildlife Refuges, Parks, Forest, Monuments and BLM lands for my whole life. I have a great interest in preserving our scenic wonders and natural resources. I questioned the poster because he questioned another poster. I think the poster was being rude so I was rude to him.
Click to expand...

good for you.  you need a medal or a chest to pin one on.  and, BTW, we're happy for you.


----------



## Old Rocks

jc, you are a fool. Everything you have posted here demonstrates that. But keep on posting. Between you and Kosher, you are accurately portraying the type of mentality that supports this idiocy.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> 
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or....and this is just a thought: *you have no idea what you're talking about. *And are just waking up from your nap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Visitor Center*
> 
> The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00.
> 
> Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the Visitor Center has a gift shop open Monday through Friday, but no one is there save for a few weeks a year?
> 
> Laughing.......try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just correcting the disinfo batshit and pseudo-legal gibberish you're making up.
> 
> But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're just someone with no place to go, bored in your basement trying to create something and failing miserably.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm someone who is informed. And that puts me head and shoulders ahead of you. As you have no idea what you're talking about. Nor can back up any of your pseudo-legal batshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure you are, you merely think you are, it is something every libturd goes through
Click to expand...


Laughing.....you're done, son. As you've abandoned the topic, now refusing to discuss it. 

When you muster the courage for another lesson on Bundy's little militia or the Malheur NWR, I'll be happy to provide it for you.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

jc456 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're just someone with no place to go, bored in your basement trying to create something and failing miserably.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are just frustrated and exhausted from your struggle to make chicken salad out of the wing nut chicken shit in Oregon ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the only ones frustrated are you and your peers with your petty  posts about nothing you know anything about.  funny shit you post up like you live there.  But alas, your mere libturds with nothing to do, we all know this.
Click to expand...

You know the Hammonds were convicted after due process and that they appealed all the way to the Supreme Court for a writ of certiorari to avoid having to go back to prison but they lost after exhausting all Constitutional venues ...


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> jc, you are a fool. Everything you have posted here demonstrates that. But keep on posting. Between you and Kosher, you are accurately portraying the type of mentality that supports this idiocy.


I care why?   you are but a libturd that backs a lady responsible for four american deaths.  Yeah, you have a lot of classelessness.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or....and this is just a thought: *you have no idea what you're talking about. *And are just waking up from your nap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Visitor Center*
> 
> The Visitor Center includes The Friends of Malheur Nature Shop, an information desk, views of wildlife using Marshall Pond and an expansive view of Malheur Lake. It is open Monday through Thursday from 8:00 to 4:00 and Friday from 8:00 to 3:00.
> 
> Plan Your Visit - Malheur - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So the Visitor Center has a gift shop open Monday through Friday, but no one is there save for a few weeks a year?
> 
> Laughing.......try again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just correcting the disinfo batshit and pseudo-legal gibberish you're making up.
> 
> But tell us again about how if the buildings aren't occupied for 24 hours they're 'abandoned' ....and thus can't have records. I could always use another giggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're just someone with no place to go, bored in your basement trying to create something and failing miserably.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm someone who is informed. And that puts me head and shoulders ahead of you. As you have no idea what you're talking about. Nor can back up any of your pseudo-legal batshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure you are, you merely think you are, it is something every libturd goes through
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....you're done, son. As you've abandoned the topic, now refusing to discuss it.
> 
> When you muster the courage for another lesson on Bundy's little militia or the Malheur NWR, I'll be happy to provide it for you.
Click to expand...

it's been discussed over and over and over and you keep repeating yourself .  the questions you ask have been answered enough.  you're just bullying the thread.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're just someone with no place to go, bored in your basement trying to create something and failing miserably.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are just frustrated and exhausted from your struggle to make chicken salad out of the wing nut chicken shit in Oregon ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the only ones frustrated are you and your peers with your petty  posts about nothing you know anything about.  funny shit you post up like you live there.  But alas, your mere libturds with nothing to do, we all know this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know the Hammonds were convicted after due process and that they appealed all the way to the Supreme Court for a writ of certiorari to avoid having to go back to prison but they lost after exhausting all Constitutional venues ...
Click to expand...

I merely asked where to find the story, there isn't one on the internet.  That's a lot of stories wouldn't you think?  So, perhaps it is a myth.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> jc, you are a fool. Everything you have posted here demonstrates that. But keep on posting. Between you and Kosher, you are accurately portraying the type of mentality that supports this idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> I care why?   you are but a libturd that backs a lady responsible for four american deaths.  Yeah, you have a lot of classelessness.
Click to expand...

Can't stay on topic, eh?  That's concession.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> jc, you are a fool. Everything you have posted here demonstrates that. But keep on posting. Between you and Kosher, you are accurately portraying the type of mentality that supports this idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> I care why?   you are but a libturd that backs a lady responsible for four american deaths.  Yeah, you have a lot of classelessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can't stay on topic, eh?  That's concession.
Click to expand...

what story, the one repeated over and over, why?  what is it you can't find on the internet.  Oh yeah, the fake 2001 fire that ty posted up.  hmmmmmmmmm


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> jc, you are a fool. Everything you have posted here demonstrates that. But keep on posting. Between you and Kosher, you are accurately portraying the type of mentality that supports this idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> I care why?   you are but a libturd that backs a lady responsible for four american deaths.  Yeah, you have a lot of classelessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can't stay on topic, eh?  That's concession.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what story, the one repeated over and over, why?  what is it you can't find on the internet.  Oh yeah, the fake 2001 fire that ty posted up.  hmmmmmmmmm
Click to expand...

^  Pay attention to meeeeeeeeeeeee!


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> 
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's yours, loser?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I have been visiting National Wildlife Refuges, Parks, Forest, Monuments and BLM lands for my whole life. I have a great interest in preserving our scenic wonders and natural resources. I questioned the poster because he questioned another poster. I think the poster was being rude so I was rude to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good for you.  you need a medal or a chest to pin one on.  and, BTW, we're happy for you.
Click to expand...

Koshergirl asked me a question and I answered her in a friendly polite and honest manner. What is it of your concern? Why are you butting in with your rude blather? Just a natural born crude jerk aren't you.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> jc, you are a fool. Everything you have posted here demonstrates that. But keep on posting. Between you and Kosher, you are accurately portraying the type of mentality that supports this idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> I care why?   you are but a libturd that backs a lady responsible for four american deaths.  Yeah, you have a lot of classelessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can't stay on topic, eh?  That's concession.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what story, the one repeated over and over, why?  what is it you can't find on the internet.  Oh yeah, the fake 2001 fire that ty posted up.  hmmmmmmmmm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^  Pay attention to meeeeeeeeeeeee!
Click to expand...

^^^this^^^ you do it well.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> 
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's yours, loser?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I have been visiting National Wildlife Refuges, Parks, Forest, Monuments and BLM lands for my whole life. I have a great interest in preserving our scenic wonders and natural resources. I questioned the poster because he questioned another poster. I think the poster was being rude so I was rude to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good for you.  you need a medal or a chest to pin one on.  and, BTW, we're happy for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Koshergirl asked me a question and I answered her in a friendly polite and honest manner. What is it of your concern? Why are you butting in with youR rude blather? Just a natural born crude jerk aren't you.
Click to expand...

yes she did, good for you again.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jc456 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher.......oh, KO-sher.
> 
> Where are those mythic 'youtube videos' you told us about. But have never managed to actually produce?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've produced multiple videos.
> 
> But here's another:
> 
> Video at the link:
> BLM burns land unsupervised: Burn ranchers home and cattle alive
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And where, pray tell, are the youtube videos that show that the Malheur NWR's buildings are filtthy and rat infested?
> 
> Because its snowing in Oregon. And the videos you've produced are in the summer time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The walk through of the rat infested buildings are on facebook.
> 
> Not that it matters. That video that I put there shows the fires around private property, houses and animals that the feds set in JULY. That is why the locals hate them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the feds set those fires?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> to accuse someone else of doing it.  It is what was stated right?
Click to expand...


No.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Supreme Court turned down arson case at center of Oregon standoff

The ranchers whose criminal case sparked the armed standoff in Oregon were denied a chance to make their case to the U.S. Supreme Court, the National Law Journal reported.

In _U.S. v. Hammond_, father and son Dwight and Steven Hammond were prosecuted for arson on federal land. The Hammonds, whose cattle ranch abuts federal land where they have grazing rights, had *set a fire in 2001* that prosecutors argued was intended to cover up evidence of poaching. Steven Hammond was also convicted of setting fires in 2006 to control wildfires created by lightning.
The Hammonds became a cause celebre among anti-government activists in part because of mandatory minimum sentencing. Originally, a federal district judge had given Dwight Hammond three months in prison and Steven Hammond one year and one day, saying the mandatory minimum of five years was “grossly disproportionate” and would violate the Eighth Amendment’s ban on cruel and unusual punishment.
However, the Justice Department successfully appealed those sentences to the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. In 2014, a panel of the court found the mandatory minimum was not disproportionate, given the seriousness of arson. It said the Supreme Court has upheld longer sentences for comparable or less serious crimes.
The Hammonds appealed that ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court, which denied certiorari without comment in March. Their attorney, Kendra Matthews of Portland’s Ransom Blackman, argued that this was a clear instance of mandatory minimum sentences violating the Eighth Amendment.
Solicitor General Donald Verrilli, opposing the petition, wrote that the *Hammonds endangered firefighters and nearby campers *and had gone to great lengths to cover up their actions.
After the case was turned down, a federal district judge* resentenced both Hammonds to the five-year mandatory minimum. The Hammonds reported to prison Monday as required.*


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO! 'Soros' has a 'narrative' about the* Malheur Natural Wildlife Preserve gift shop and a visitor's center* opened 4 days a week from 9 to 4?
> 
> Care to back that up with anything more than the wasteland of your own insanity? As you've presented absolutely nothing that even suggests that the headquarters is only manned a few weeks a year. Nothing you've posted ever says this.
> 
> *You do. Citing yourself. And you're clueless.*
> 
> Nor does your narrative make the slightest sense. You can't explain why ALL 18 employees would leave the headquarters, gift shop and visitor's center all at the same time. Let alone so often that they only man the headquarters a couple of weeks a year. Especially when they have many volunteers.
> 
> Try again. This time without citing yourself on a topic you know jack shit about.
> 
> 
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's yours, loser?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I have been visiting National Wildlife Refuges, Parks, Forest, Monuments and BLM lands for my whole life. I have a great interest in preserving our scenic wonders and natural resources. I questioned the poster because he questioned another poster. I think the poster was being rude so I was rude to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good for you.  you need a medal or a chest to pin one on.  and, BTW, we're happy for you.
Click to expand...

I was responding to a question from another poster. Why you have the need to butt in is anyone's guess


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> 
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's yours, loser?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I have been visiting National Wildlife Refuges, Parks, Forest, Monuments and BLM lands for my whole life. I have a great interest in preserving our scenic wonders and natural resources. I questioned the poster because he questioned another poster. I think the poster was being rude so I was rude to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good for you.  you need a medal or a chest to pin one on.  and, BTW, we're happy for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was responding to a question from another poster. Why you have the need to butt in is anyone's guess
Click to expand...

Why weren't you paying attention to him.....that's a legit guess as to why.


----------



## charwin95

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> jc, you are a fool. Everything you have posted here demonstrates that. But keep on posting. Between you and Kosher, you are accurately portraying the type of mentality that supports this idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> I care why?   you are but a libturd that backs a lady responsible for four american deaths.  Yeah, you have a lot of classelessness.
Click to expand...


I understand your desperation but what is the 4 dead Americans has anything to do with these occupiers?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

charwin95 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> jc, you are a fool. Everything you have posted here demonstrates that. But keep on posting. Between you and Kosher, you are accurately portraying the type of mentality that supports this idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> I care why?   you are but a libturd that backs a lady responsible for four american deaths.  Yeah, you have a lot of classelessness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand your desperation but what is the 4 dead Americans has anything to do with these occupiers?
Click to expand...

Its an irrelevant non-sequitur mobius strip of an argument ...twisted .........


----------



## Camp

Bundy's and the outsiders who came to protest and occupy the Malheur Wildlife Refuge have been repeatedly asked to leave by elected officials and by voice vote at several town meetings. While some support has been given to their cause, that has not included support for them to stay in the county for more than a few days. The local population has overwhelmingly asked and demanded that they leave.
The Bundy's and crew of outsiders have now become invaders. They are now the uninvited guest that are trespassing on federal property and causing problems for the residents of the county.

 Invaders.


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> Bundy's and the outsiders who came to protest and occupy the Malheur Wildlife Refuge have been repeatedly asked to leave by elected officials and by voice vote at several town meetings. While some support has been given to their cause, that has not included support for them to stay in the county for more than a few days. The local population has overwhelmingly asked and demanded that they leave.
> The Bundy's and crew of outsiders have now become invaders. They are now the uninvited guest that are trespassing on federal property and causing problems for the residents of the county.
> 
> Invaders.


Ben Franklin had it right...."Guests, like fish, begin to stink after 3 days."


----------



## koshergrl

So I was right, it is the feds who are harassing the locals (this is what the locals have told me as well):

"
#BREAKINGNEWS

Assemblywoman Fiore of Nevada just sent me this message:

This is Assemblywoman Michele Fiore of Nevada & COWS (Coalition of Western States http://cowstates.com/)...

I just got off the phone with the Fire Chief of Burns Chris Briels myself, he was the Burns Fire Chief from 1984 to 2006 when he retired in 2006 the county asked him to stay on as the Fire Marshall. 

According to the conversation I had with Chief Briels today at 12:26pm Pacific time, he informed me the Sheriff's office and Judge Grasty has been telling the community the militia has been following people and harassing people. 

Chief Briels saw what he thought was Militia poking around the Armory and following people so he took it upon himself to pull them over. These men posing as Militia were the FBI. 

Chief Briels was so upset he just resigned as the county Fire Marshall. He is going public with this information."


KrisAnne Hall - Timeline Photos | Facebook


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> Bundy's and the outsiders who came to protest and occupy the Malheur Wildlife Refuge have been repeatedly asked to leave by elected officials and by voice vote at several town meetings. While some support has been given to their cause, that has not included support for them to stay in the county for more than a few days. The local population has overwhelmingly asked and demanded that they leave.
> The Bundy's and crew of outsiders have now become invaders. They are now the uninvited guest that are trespassing on federal property and causing problems for the residents of the county.
> 
> Invaders.


 Nope. The locals are supporting them. They're giving them money and supplies.

The feds and the outside progressive moonbats are harassing the locals, and posing as locals in order to further a false narrative.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> So I was right, it is the feds who are harassing the locals (this is what the locals have told me as well):
> 
> "
> #BREAKINGNEWS
> 
> Assemblywoman Fiore of Nevada just sent me this message:
> 
> This is Assemblywoman Michele Fiore of Nevada & COWS (Coalition of Western States http://cowstates.com/)...
> 
> I just got off the phone with the Fire Chief of Burns Chris Briels myself, he was the Burns Fire Chief from 1984 to 2006 when he retired in 2006 the county asked him to stay on as the Fire Marshall.
> 
> According to the conversation I had with Chief Briels today at 12:26pm Pacific time, he informed me the Sheriff's office and Judge Grasty has been telling the community the militia has been following people and harassing people.
> 
> Chief Briels saw what he thought was Militia poking around the Armory and following people so he took it upon himself to pull them over. These men posing as Militia were the FBI.
> 
> Chief Briels was so upset he just resigned as the county Fire Marshall. He is going public with this information."
> 
> 
> KrisAnne Hall - Timeline Photos | Facebook


Nevada.......isn't it interesting how "politicians" from other states seem to want to get involved.   And if she knows that these guys were FBI, where is the evidence?    There's a reason hearsay isn't admissible in a court of law, Allie.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I was right, it is the feds who are harassing the locals (this is what the locals have told me as well):
> 
> "
> #BREAKINGNEWS
> 
> Assemblywoman Fiore of Nevada just sent me this message:
> 
> This is Assemblywoman Michele Fiore of Nevada & COWS (Coalition of Western States http://cowstates.com/)...
> 
> I just got off the phone with the Fire Chief of Burns Chris Briels myself, he was the Burns Fire Chief from 1984 to 2006 when he retired in 2006 the county asked him to stay on as the Fire Marshall.
> 
> According to the conversation I had with Chief Briels today at 12:26pm Pacific time, he informed me the Sheriff's office and Judge Grasty has been telling the community the militia has been following people and harassing people.
> 
> Chief Briels saw what he thought was Militia poking around the Armory and following people so he took it upon himself to pull them over. These men posing as Militia were the FBI.
> 
> Chief Briels was so upset he just resigned as the county Fire Marshall. He is going public with this information."
> 
> 
> KrisAnne Hall - Timeline Photos | Facebook
> 
> 
> 
> Nevada.......isn't it interesting how "politicians" from other states seem to want to get involved.   And if she knows that these guys were FBI, where is the evidence?    There's a reason hearsay isn't admissible in a court of law, Allie.
Click to expand...

 
The Fire Marshall retired because he busted feds impersonating militia in order to intimidate the locals.

That's why the Bundys are welcome there.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well your narrative is just old bullshit from a libturd.  Not sure your mission, why don't you post it up here so we know the real reason you have such a big interest in here?
> 
> 
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's yours, loser?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I have been visiting National Wildlife Refuges, Parks, Forest, Monuments and BLM lands for my whole life. I have a great interest in preserving our scenic wonders and natural resources. I questioned the poster because he questioned another poster. I think the poster was being rude so I was rude to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good for you.  you need a medal or a chest to pin one on.  and, BTW, we're happy for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Koshergirl asked me a question and I answered her in a friendly polite and honest manner. What is it of your concern? Why are you butting in with your rude blather? Just a natural born crude jerk aren't you.
Click to expand...

 
So you think you're more qualified to speak than jc because you have gone to parks.

Otay!


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Militant broadcaster brands 15-year-old girl a ‘prostitute’ for crying in fear at Oregon town meeting*


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bundy's and the outsiders who came to protest and occupy the Malheur Wildlife Refuge have been repeatedly asked to leave by elected officials and by voice vote at several town meetings. While some support has been given to their cause, that has not included support for them to stay in the county for more than a few days. The local population has overwhelmingly asked and demanded that they leave.
> The Bundy's and crew of outsiders have now become invaders. They are now the uninvited guest that are trespassing on federal property and causing problems for the residents of the county.
> 
> Invaders.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. The locals are supporting them. They're giving them money and supplies.
> 
> The feds and the outside progressive moonbats are harassing the locals, and posing as locals in order to further a false narrative.
Click to expand...

What nonsense and misinformation. Ther FBI has been staging at the BLM facility at the Burns Airport since the weekend when they vacated the school when officials decided to reopen it. They actually began operating there about six days ago.
The FBI has the authority to be in Burns. A Federal property has been allocated by armed men making ridiculous unlawful demands, including the demand that federal prisoners be released. They have a right to be there and to assist the local sheriff in numerous legal ways.  That includes riding around undercover, surveilling unknown outsiders in the town, providing security to the federal workers who claim they are being harassed, etc. 

Militia has announced they will conduct a town hall meeting on Friday but have not announced where it would be held. Probably a good idea to keep eyes on that Armory. It is a National Guard facility and the militia may see it as a good candidate for the next government facility to invade and man with armed rebels.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is your interest here? Who are you to question why people have an interest in various topics?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's yours, loser?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, I have been visiting National Wildlife Refuges, Parks, Forest, Monuments and BLM lands for my whole life. I have a great interest in preserving our scenic wonders and natural resources. I questioned the poster because he questioned another poster. I think the poster was being rude so I was rude to him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> good for you.  you need a medal or a chest to pin one on.  and, BTW, we're happy for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Koshergirl asked me a question and I answered her in a friendly polite and honest manner. What is it of your concern? Why are you butting in with your rude blather? Just a natural born crude jerk aren't you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think you're more qualified to speak than jc because you have gone to parks.
> 
> Otay!
Click to expand...

Not at all. You asked what my interest in this topic was and I told you. I did not insinuate I am more qualified than anyone to speak on the topic. I only brought up my experience when you asked for it. You, on the other hand, are constantly telling us how you are better qualified than others to speak on the subject because you are getting information from "locals".


----------



## Camp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Militant broadcaster brands 15-year-old girl a ‘prostitute’ for crying in fear at Oregon town meeting*


The man in the background in the camo hat is displaying a SEAL TEAM logo, note the patch on the hat. If he is not a SEAL vet or active SEAL, he is a poser, a fake, a stolen valor creep.


----------



## Seawytch

Camp said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Militant broadcaster brands 15-year-old girl a ‘prostitute’ for crying in fear at Oregon town meeting*
> 
> 
> 
> The man in the background in the camo hat is displaying a SEAL TEAM logo, note the patch on the hat. If he is not a SEAL vet or active SEAL, he is a poser, a fake, a stolen valor creep.
Click to expand...


I'm sure SassyIrish will be along to condemn him any moment...


----------



## bodecea

Seawytch said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Militant broadcaster brands 15-year-old girl a ‘prostitute’ for crying in fear at Oregon town meeting*
> 
> 
> 
> The man in the background in the camo hat is displaying a SEAL TEAM logo, note the patch on the hat. If he is not a SEAL vet or active SEAL, he is a poser, a fake, a stolen valor creep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm sure SassyIrish will be along to condemn him any moment...
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm sure she will.


----------



## bodecea

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Militant broadcaster brands 15-year-old girl a ‘prostitute’ for crying in fear at Oregon town meeting*


What a sad little man he is.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Rancher: 'I didn't know anything' about Bundy entering property, destroying fence 

Here is the article. 


*Statement from rancher Tim Puckett* 
"As owner of the ranch that borders the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters, I would like to make it clear that I DO NOT condone nor did I ask for the protesters at the refuge to cut fences to allow my cows access to the refuge. The protesters are quoting a representative who did not have the authority to speak on my behalf. 
"I have no grievances with the refuge or the BLM. I have BLM grazing permits that I use each year, and I am a good steward of the land. I am a hay farmer, I DO NOT DEPEND ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO RAISE MY CATTLE. I have been in Harney County for four years, in no way do I feel that I am entitled to the refuge for grazing. I was informed of the fence last fall prior to its construction, and it has not nor will it affect my cattle operation." 
Tim Puckett, Golden Rule Farms​


----------



## Old Rocks

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, serif]*Oregon Cattlemen's Association and Oregon Wild Speak Out Against Malheur Armed Takeover | eugeneweekly.com*[/FONT]

*Burns, the Hammonds and Oregon Cattlemen's Association*
SALEM,Ore., (01/04/2016) -- Today, January 4, 2016 Oregon ranchers Dwight and Steve Hammond have left their homes to report to a federal prison. Both ranchers are faithful, long term Oregon Cattlemen's Association members. Many have asked where the association stands on the Hammond's predicament.
The Oregon Cattlemen's Association has declared that they do not support illegal activity taken against the government but has, and will continue, to support the Hammonds via avenues that are in accordance with the law.
John O'Keeffe, current president of the OCA, said the ranchers in Burns strive to work together with surrounding agencies. "The community of Burns and the ranchers there have been very resourceful in working together with agencies on many wildlife issues," he said. "Furthermore, OCA does not support illegal activity taken against the government. This includes militia takeover of government property, such as the Malheur Wildlife Refuge."
*Not much support for the loonies there.*


----------



## Old Rocks

[FONT=custom-font, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Letter: Wrong move against Malheur National Wildlife Refuge*[/FONT]

*Writer says radical militant group should not have seized Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.*

To the Editor:
What an outrageous situation in Harney County with the seizing of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge by a radical militia group. The people who are declaring Malheur Headquarters as their new militia base made a grave error in their selection.
In recent times, Malheur National Wildlife Refuge has become a model of true coordination management involving a large cross-section of stakeholders. This alone is headline news given the historical conflicts regarding cattle grazing on a national wildlife refuge. If the criminal occupiers of the headquarters set down their weapons long enough to pick up a copy of the “Malheur National Refuge Comprehensive Conservation Plan” (that I know is within sight around the offices there), they might discover their huge mistake in seizing the refuge. They ought to realize they are attempting to destroy what local ranchers, hunters, federal agencies, environmental interests and citizens of the area and beyond worked so hard to pull together and all signed onto in the 2013 plan.
The militants say that they are there to protect the rights of people to use the refuge freely. However, a reporter who drove to the headquarters to interview them was told to leave. They had weapons; he did not. He left. Apparently you cannot enter the refuge unless you are one of them.
The occupiers have called upon armed supporters from across the nation to come and make the national wildlife refuge their headquarters. Wait a moment. Does this mean I can’t enter OUR refuge to photograph wildlife? Others can’t go there during the rut to see large mule deer bucks? Thousands of birders will not be able to access the visitor’s center grounds, museum or trails and roads because the refuge will be occupied by armed militant terrorists who say they are protecting people from “federal tyranny?” We don’t need radicals protecting our rights. The true cooperative Americans with a vested interest in Malheur Refuge are already in place successfully coordinating with the USFWS. I hope those from Harney County hang tight with the refuge management plan and get rid of these self-declared “patriots” post haste.
Kay Steele
Ritter
*From the Blue Mountain Eagle.*


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Supreme Court turned down arson case at center of Oregon standoff
> 
> The ranchers whose criminal case sparked the armed standoff in Oregon were denied a chance to make their case to the U.S. Supreme Court, the National Law Journal reported.
> 
> In _U.S. v. Hammond_, father and son Dwight and Steven Hammond were prosecuted for arson on federal land. The Hammonds, whose cattle ranch abuts federal land where they have grazing rights, had *set a fire in 2001* that prosecutors argued was intended to cover up evidence of poaching. Steven Hammond was also convicted of setting fires in 2006 to control wildfires created by lightning.
> The Hammonds became a cause celebre among anti-government activists in part because of mandatory minimum sentencing. Originally, a federal district judge had given Dwight Hammond three months in prison and Steven Hammond one year and one day, saying the mandatory minimum of five years was “grossly disproportionate” and would violate the Eighth Amendment’s ban on cruel and unusual punishment.
> However, the Justice Department successfully appealed those sentences to the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. In 2014, a panel of the court found the mandatory minimum was not disproportionate, given the seriousness of arson. It said the Supreme Court has upheld longer sentences for comparable or less serious crimes.
> The Hammonds appealed that ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court, which denied certiorari without comment in March. Their attorney, Kendra Matthews of Portland’s Ransom Blackman, argued that this was a clear instance of mandatory minimum sentences violating the Eighth Amendment.
> Solicitor General Donald Verrilli, opposing the petition, wrote that the *Hammonds endangered firefighters and nearby campers *and had gone to great lengths to cover up their actions.
> After the case was turned down, a federal district judge* resentenced both Hammonds to the five-year mandatory minimum. The Hammonds reported to prison Monday as required.*


Hey found one, wow, that was a tough hunt.  here is what I found:

FindLaw's United States Ninth Circuit case and opinions.

Excerpt:

"The government appeals the sentences of Steven and Dwight Hammond, whom a jury convicted of maliciously damaging the real property of the United States by fire, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 844(f)(1). The convictions carried minimum sentences of five years of imprisonment, but citing Eighth Amendment concerns, the district court sentenced Steven to only twelve months and one day of imprisonment and Dwight to only three months of imprisonment. Because the sentences were illegal and the government did not waive its right to appeal them, we vacate the sentences and remand for resentencing. - See more at: FindLaw's United States Ninth Circuit case and opinions."

Maybe this is what the protesters are there for.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

jc456 said:


> Maybe this is what the protesters are there for.



The re sentencing to the five years minimum mandatory was upheld when the Supreme Court refused a writ of certiorari...that is the final step ...it went from what you posted  to an appeal by the prosecutors to an eventual victory by the Prosecutors and the perpetrators are currently in the custody of the Federal prison system............


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

This is what happened to the Hammonds when they went to the Supreme Court after being sentenced to five years ...


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this is what the protesters are there for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The re sentencing to the five years minimum mandatory was upheld when the Supreme Court refused a writ of certiorari...that is the final step ...it went from what you posted  to an appeal by the prosecutors to an eventual victory by the Prosecutors and the perpetrators are currently in the custody of the Federal prison system............
Click to expand...

agree, and why the protesters are there as i stated.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Supreme Court turned down arson case at center of Oregon standoff
> 
> The ranchers whose criminal case sparked the armed standoff in Oregon were denied a chance to make their case to the U.S. Supreme Court, the National Law Journal reported.
> 
> In _U.S. v. Hammond_, father and son Dwight and Steven Hammond were prosecuted for arson on federal land. The Hammonds, whose cattle ranch abuts federal land where they have grazing rights, had *set a fire in 2001* that prosecutors argued was intended to cover up evidence of poaching. Steven Hammond was also convicted of setting fires in 2006 to control wildfires created by lightning.
> The Hammonds became a cause celebre among anti-government activists in part because of mandatory minimum sentencing. Originally, a federal district judge had given Dwight Hammond three months in prison and Steven Hammond one year and one day, saying the mandatory minimum of five years was “grossly disproportionate” and would violate the Eighth Amendment’s ban on cruel and unusual punishment.
> However, the Justice Department successfully appealed those sentences to the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. In 2014, a panel of the court found the mandatory minimum was not disproportionate, given the seriousness of arson. It said the Supreme Court has upheld longer sentences for comparable or less serious crimes.
> The Hammonds appealed that ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court, which denied certiorari without comment in March. Their attorney, Kendra Matthews of Portland’s Ransom Blackman, argued that this was a clear instance of mandatory minimum sentences violating the Eighth Amendment.
> Solicitor General Donald Verrilli, opposing the petition, wrote that the *Hammonds endangered firefighters and nearby campers *and had gone to great lengths to cover up their actions.
> After the case was turned down, a federal district judge* resentenced both Hammonds to the five-year mandatory minimum. The Hammonds reported to prison Monday as required.*
> 
> 
> 
> Hey found one, wow, that was a tough hunt.  here is what I found:
> 
> FindLaw's United States Ninth Circuit case and opinions.
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> "The government appeals the sentences of Steven and Dwight Hammond, whom a jury convicted of maliciously damaging the real property of the United States by fire, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 844(f)(1). The convictions carried minimum sentences of five years of imprisonment, but citing Eighth Amendment concerns, the district court sentenced Steven to only twelve months and one day of imprisonment and Dwight to only three months of imprisonment. Because the sentences were illegal and the government did not waive its right to appeal them, we vacate the sentences and remand for resentencing. - See more at: FindLaw's United States Ninth Circuit case and opinions."
> 
> Maybe this is what the protesters are there for.
Click to expand...

The traitor rebels are screaming they are protecting and supporting the Constitution, but not when it disagrees with their nutty concepts and ideas. They prefer to be selective on which parts of the Constitution are valid. The part that declares the public lands are the citizens and taxpayers legitimate property in totality and Supreme Court rulings are ignored by the criminals who covet our property.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Supreme Court turned down arson case at center of Oregon standoff
> 
> The ranchers whose criminal case sparked the armed standoff in Oregon were denied a chance to make their case to the U.S. Supreme Court, the National Law Journal reported.
> 
> In _U.S. v. Hammond_, father and son Dwight and Steven Hammond were prosecuted for arson on federal land. The Hammonds, whose cattle ranch abuts federal land where they have grazing rights, had *set a fire in 2001* that prosecutors argued was intended to cover up evidence of poaching. Steven Hammond was also convicted of setting fires in 2006 to control wildfires created by lightning.
> The Hammonds became a cause celebre among anti-government activists in part because of mandatory minimum sentencing. Originally, a federal district judge had given Dwight Hammond three months in prison and Steven Hammond one year and one day, saying the mandatory minimum of five years was “grossly disproportionate” and would violate the Eighth Amendment’s ban on cruel and unusual punishment.
> However, the Justice Department successfully appealed those sentences to the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. In 2014, a panel of the court found the mandatory minimum was not disproportionate, given the seriousness of arson. It said the Supreme Court has upheld longer sentences for comparable or less serious crimes.
> The Hammonds appealed that ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court, which denied certiorari without comment in March. Their attorney, Kendra Matthews of Portland’s Ransom Blackman, argued that this was a clear instance of mandatory minimum sentences violating the Eighth Amendment.
> Solicitor General Donald Verrilli, opposing the petition, wrote that the *Hammonds endangered firefighters and nearby campers *and had gone to great lengths to cover up their actions.
> After the case was turned down, a federal district judge* resentenced both Hammonds to the five-year mandatory minimum. The Hammonds reported to prison Monday as required.*
> 
> 
> 
> Hey found one, wow, that was a tough hunt.  here is what I found:
> 
> FindLaw's United States Ninth Circuit case and opinions.
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> "The government appeals the sentences of Steven and Dwight Hammond, whom a jury convicted of maliciously damaging the real property of the United States by fire, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 844(f)(1). The convictions carried minimum sentences of five years of imprisonment, but citing Eighth Amendment concerns, the district court sentenced Steven to only twelve months and one day of imprisonment and Dwight to only three months of imprisonment. Because the sentences were illegal and the government did not waive its right to appeal them, we vacate the sentences and remand for resentencing. - See more at: FindLaw's United States Ninth Circuit case and opinions."
> 
> Maybe this is what the protesters are there for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The traitor rebels are screaming they are protecting are protecting and supporting the Constitution, but not when it disagrees with their nutty concepts and ideas. They prefer to be selective on which parts of the Constitution are valid. The part that declares the public lands are the citizens and taxpayers legitimate property in totality and Supreme Court rulings are ignored by the criminals who covet out property.
Click to expand...

perhaps you could refocus a bit, the fire that was set was on Hammonds property.  Not on public land.  

excerpt From my previous link

"But in September 2001, the Hammonds again set a fire on their property that spread to nearby public land. - "

Did the prosecutors make a deal in 2002 with the Hammonds or not?  I haven't seen that answer. The decision was reversed in 2014.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jc456 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this is what the protesters are there for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The re sentencing to the five years minimum mandatory was upheld when the Supreme Court refused a writ of certiorari...that is the final step ...it went from what you posted  to an appeal by the prosecutors to an eventual victory by the Prosecutors and the perpetrators are currently in the custody of the Federal prison system............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> agree, and why the protesters are there as i stated.
Click to expand...


And to think, it only took you 239 pages to get to where we all started from.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Supreme Court turned down arson case at center of Oregon standoff
> 
> The ranchers whose criminal case sparked the armed standoff in Oregon were denied a chance to make their case to the U.S. Supreme Court, the National Law Journal reported.
> 
> In _U.S. v. Hammond_, father and son Dwight and Steven Hammond were prosecuted for arson on federal land. The Hammonds, whose cattle ranch abuts federal land where they have grazing rights, had *set a fire in 2001* that prosecutors argued was intended to cover up evidence of poaching. Steven Hammond was also convicted of setting fires in 2006 to control wildfires created by lightning.
> The Hammonds became a cause celebre among anti-government activists in part because of mandatory minimum sentencing. Originally, a federal district judge had given Dwight Hammond three months in prison and Steven Hammond one year and one day, saying the mandatory minimum of five years was “grossly disproportionate” and would violate the Eighth Amendment’s ban on cruel and unusual punishment.
> However, the Justice Department successfully appealed those sentences to the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. In 2014, a panel of the court found the mandatory minimum was not disproportionate, given the seriousness of arson. It said the Supreme Court has upheld longer sentences for comparable or less serious crimes.
> The Hammonds appealed that ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court, which denied certiorari without comment in March. Their attorney, Kendra Matthews of Portland’s Ransom Blackman, argued that this was a clear instance of mandatory minimum sentences violating the Eighth Amendment.
> Solicitor General Donald Verrilli, opposing the petition, wrote that the *Hammonds endangered firefighters and nearby campers *and had gone to great lengths to cover up their actions.
> After the case was turned down, a federal district judge* resentenced both Hammonds to the five-year mandatory minimum. The Hammonds reported to prison Monday as required.*
> 
> 
> 
> Hey found one, wow, that was a tough hunt.  here is what I found:
> 
> FindLaw's United States Ninth Circuit case and opinions.
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> "The government appeals the sentences of Steven and Dwight Hammond, whom a jury convicted of maliciously damaging the real property of the United States by fire, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 844(f)(1). The convictions carried minimum sentences of five years of imprisonment, but citing Eighth Amendment concerns, the district court sentenced Steven to only twelve months and one day of imprisonment and Dwight to only three months of imprisonment. Because the sentences were illegal and the government did not waive its right to appeal them, we vacate the sentences and remand for resentencing. - See more at: FindLaw's United States Ninth Circuit case and opinions."
> 
> Maybe this is what the protesters are there for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The traitor rebels are screaming they are protecting are protecting and supporting the Constitution, but not when it disagrees with their nutty concepts and ideas. They prefer to be selective on which parts of the Constitution are valid. The part that declares the public lands are the citizens and taxpayers legitimate property in totality and Supreme Court rulings are ignored by the criminals who covet out property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> perhaps you could refocus a bit, the fire that was set was on Hammonds property.  Not on public land.
> 
> excerpt From my previous link
> 
> "But in September 2001, the Hammonds again set a fire on their property that spread to nearby public land. - "
> 
> Did the prosecutors make a deal in 2002 with the Hammonds or not?  I haven't seen that answer. The decision was reversed in 2014.
Click to expand...

How does that interpret into armed men dressed up like soldiers preventing law-abiding citizens from enjoying and using a Wildlife Refuge that has been invested into and maintained with taxpayer funds for 108 years?


----------



## jc456

Hutch Starskey said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe this is what the protesters are there for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The re sentencing to the five years minimum mandatory was upheld when the Supreme Court refused a writ of certiorari...that is the final step ...it went from what you posted  to an appeal by the prosecutors to an eventual victory by the Prosecutors and the perpetrators are currently in the custody of the Federal prison system............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> agree, and why the protesters are there as i stated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And to think, it only took you 239 pages to get to where we all started from.
Click to expand...

better late than never.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Supreme Court turned down arson case at center of Oregon standoff
> 
> The ranchers whose criminal case sparked the armed standoff in Oregon were denied a chance to make their case to the U.S. Supreme Court, the National Law Journal reported.
> 
> In _U.S. v. Hammond_, father and son Dwight and Steven Hammond were prosecuted for arson on federal land. The Hammonds, whose cattle ranch abuts federal land where they have grazing rights, had *set a fire in 2001* that prosecutors argued was intended to cover up evidence of poaching. Steven Hammond was also convicted of setting fires in 2006 to control wildfires created by lightning.
> The Hammonds became a cause celebre among anti-government activists in part because of mandatory minimum sentencing. Originally, a federal district judge had given Dwight Hammond three months in prison and Steven Hammond one year and one day, saying the mandatory minimum of five years was “grossly disproportionate” and would violate the Eighth Amendment’s ban on cruel and unusual punishment.
> However, the Justice Department successfully appealed those sentences to the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. In 2014, a panel of the court found the mandatory minimum was not disproportionate, given the seriousness of arson. It said the Supreme Court has upheld longer sentences for comparable or less serious crimes.
> The Hammonds appealed that ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court, which denied certiorari without comment in March. Their attorney, Kendra Matthews of Portland’s Ransom Blackman, argued that this was a clear instance of mandatory minimum sentences violating the Eighth Amendment.
> Solicitor General Donald Verrilli, opposing the petition, wrote that the *Hammonds endangered firefighters and nearby campers *and had gone to great lengths to cover up their actions.
> After the case was turned down, a federal district judge* resentenced both Hammonds to the five-year mandatory minimum. The Hammonds reported to prison Monday as required.*
> 
> 
> 
> Hey found one, wow, that was a tough hunt.  here is what I found:
> 
> FindLaw's United States Ninth Circuit case and opinions.
> 
> Excerpt:
> 
> "The government appeals the sentences of Steven and Dwight Hammond, whom a jury convicted of maliciously damaging the real property of the United States by fire, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 844(f)(1). The convictions carried minimum sentences of five years of imprisonment, but citing Eighth Amendment concerns, the district court sentenced Steven to only twelve months and one day of imprisonment and Dwight to only three months of imprisonment. Because the sentences were illegal and the government did not waive its right to appeal them, we vacate the sentences and remand for resentencing. - See more at: FindLaw's United States Ninth Circuit case and opinions."
> 
> Maybe this is what the protesters are there for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The traitor rebels are screaming they are protecting are protecting and supporting the Constitution, but not when it disagrees with their nutty concepts and ideas. They prefer to be selective on which parts of the Constitution are valid. The part that declares the public lands are the citizens and taxpayers legitimate property in totality and Supreme Court rulings are ignored by the criminals who covet out property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> perhaps you could refocus a bit, the fire that was set was on Hammonds property.  Not on public land.
> 
> excerpt From my previous link
> 
> "But in September 2001, the Hammonds again set a fire on their property that spread to nearby public land. - "
> 
> Did the prosecutors make a deal in 2002 with the Hammonds or not?  I haven't seen that answer. The decision was reversed in 2014.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How does that interpret into armed men dressed up like soldiers preventing law-abiding citizens from enjoying and using a Wildlife Refuge that has been invested into and maintained with taxpayer funds for 108 years?
Click to expand...

maybe it's how they travel.


----------



## Intolerant

I'm of a mixed mind about this. I can understand folks being fed up with Government, especially the over-reaching Federal Government. I have had just about enough myself. However, I do not believe that it has come to a point of armed conflict. We have an election coming up, I think energies and passions should be placed to get a change of administration, and in unarmed protests against Government excesses.

Not to many years ago the Tea Party was at it's height. The Tea Party was doing a great deal to make our voices heard, and then it all just faded away as everyone let the Liberal media, the Democratic Party and the Progressives in the Republican party marginalize the movement. And this when Conservatives were finally being heard.

We need that kind of movement again. But we need to take it further to include continuous massive demonstrations. And they need to be peaceful demonstrations until and unless the Government uses force against them. That is the way to draw attention to unfair and unwanted laws and regulations and let those in power know it will no longer be tolerated.

Occupying Federal Land under arms to protest against the Federal Government for enforcing Federal Laws on that land is not the best way to go IMHO. Have the laws changed. We have procedures in place to make that happen if it is the will of the majority of the people.

Will armed force against the Government ever be necessary? Well it was once and our Founding Fathers created America. It may happen again although I sincerely hope not. Would I be among the Patriots fighting for our freedom and way of life should it come to that? Most deffinently. I have spent a good portion of my life defending this Country and what it stands for, and I would do it again.

But as I said earlier, those folks staging an occupation of Federal Land under arms and making threats to fight to the death is not the way to go.

My two cents worth.


----------



## Skylar

Intolerant said:


> I'm of a mixed mind about this. I can understand folks being fed up with Government, especially the over-reaching Federal Government. I have had just about enough myself. However, I do not believe that it has come to a point of armed conflict. We have an election coming up, I think energies and passions should be placed to get a change of administration, and in unarmed protests against Government excesses.
> 
> Not to many years ago the Tea Party was at it's height. The Tea Party was doing a great deal to make our voices heard, and then it all just faded away as everyone let the Liberal media, the Democratic Party and the Progressives in the Republican party marginalize the movement. And this when Conservatives were finally being heard.
> 
> We need that kind of movement again. But we need to take it further to include continuous massive demonstrations. And they need to be peaceful demonstrations until and unless the Government uses force against them. That is the way to draw attention to unfair and unwanted laws and regulations and let those in power know it will no longer be tolerated.
> 
> Occupying Federal Land under arms to protest against the Federal Government for enforcing Federal Laws on that land is not the best way to go IMHO. Have the laws changed. We have procedures in place to make that happen if it is the will of the majority of the people.
> 
> Will armed force against the Government ever be necessary? Well it was once and our Founding Fathers created America. It may happen again although I sincerely hope not. Would I be among the Patriots fighting for our freedom and way of life should it come to that? Most deffinently. I have spent a good portion of my life defending this Country and what it stands for, and I would do it again.
> 
> But as I said earlier, those folks staging an occupation of Federal Land under arms and making threats to fight to the death is not the way to go.
> 
> My two cents worth.



The problem with folks like Bundy is that they believe that they make the law. They've brought in their own police force. And just imported their own 'judge' to start 'trying' the locals. They've ignored the mayor, the sheriff, the governor, the law, the majority of the local folks, even the Hammonds that the claim to be fighting for.

With Ammon apparently appointing himself King of the bird sanctuary.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Bundy Gang can't use County Fairgrounds to gin up support for their "Cause."*

Oregon standoff: Harney County won't host community meeting with Bundy as headliner 

*"We have a longstanding practice of allowing community groups to use county facilities," said Harney County commissioner Steven Grasty. "But we unfortunately now find ourselves in a place where the county must deny those facilities to any group that is supportive of, associated with, or on the behalf of the militants at the refuge."* 

Well finally someone gets it that giving these guys a platform to promulgate their nutbag theories about the Constitution is counter productive. Maybe their supporters should hold their dang meeting out at the Refuge and the Feds can move in and arrest the lot of them.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Whoudda Thunk It*




*Bundy-backing California man arrested after threatening cops and building bombs: police*

Deputies executed a search warrant Saturday at 51-year-old Todd Sloan’s Johannesburg home, where investigators said they found improvised and commercial explosives and “booby traps” throughout the residence.


----------



## Skylar

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Bundy Gang can't use County Fairgrounds to gin up support for their "Cause."*
> 
> Oregon standoff: Harney County won't host community meeting with Bundy as headliner
> 
> *"We have a longstanding practice of allowing community groups to use county facilities," said Harney County commissioner Steven Grasty. "But we unfortunately now find ourselves in a place where the county must deny those facilities to any group that is supportive of, associated with, or on the behalf of the militants at the refuge."*
> 
> Well finally someone gets it that giving these guys a platform to promulgate their nutbag theories about the Constitution is counter productive. Maybe their supporters should hold their dang meeting out at the Refuge and the Feds can move in and arrest the lot of them.



I suppose they could just seize the county fairgrounds too. I mean, they make up the law wherever they go anyway. And they've already brought in their own judge to start 'trying' the locals. So why not just start seizing county property too?


----------



## Camp

Skylar said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bundy Gang can't use County Fairgrounds to gin up support for their "Cause."*
> 
> Oregon standoff: Harney County won't host community meeting with Bundy as headliner
> 
> *"We have a longstanding practice of allowing community groups to use county facilities," said Harney County commissioner Steven Grasty. "But we unfortunately now find ourselves in a place where the county must deny those facilities to any group that is supportive of, associated with, or on the behalf of the militants at the refuge."*
> 
> Well finally someone gets it that giving these guys a platform to promulgate their nutbag theories about the Constitution is counter productive. Maybe their supporters should hold their dang meeting out at the Refuge and the Feds can move in and arrest the lot of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose they could just seize the county fairgrounds too. I mean, they make up the law wherever they go anyway. And they've already brought in their own judge to start 'trying' the locals. So why not just start seizing county property too?
Click to expand...

They are riding around in a stolen government truck hauling and using a CAT front end loader, over $50,000 worth of taxpayer property. Felony theft.  Whatever they damage and destroy will be paid by the taxpayer.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Camp said:


> They are riding around in a stolen government truck hauling and using a CAT front end loader, over $50,000 worth of taxpayer property. Felony theft.  Whatever they damage and destroy will be paid by the taxpayer.


They have forced the local Government taxing authorities that being State of Oregon Government,  County Government and the Public school system to have to spend for emergencies and contingencies caused by the disturbance of domestic tranquility due to the activities of armed outsiders within the impacted community...schools have been shut down....activities canceled due to one giant tantrum by armed poltroons............


----------



## Dot Com

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Whoudda Thunk It*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bundy-backing California man arrested after threatening cops and building bombs: police*
> 
> Deputies executed a search warrant Saturday at 51-year-old Todd Sloan’s Johannesburg home, where investigators said they found improvised and commercial explosives and “booby traps” throughout the residence.


Very interesting A domestic rw terrorist. Whodathunkit?


----------



## koshergrl

So who holds feds accountable when they break the law?


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> So who holds feds accountable when they break the law?


the court? You're not very good at this allie.


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am starting to wonder if some of these folks sat back and applauded how the .gov handled Ruby ridge and Waco.  Thrilled over the spilling of blood.  Cheered the .gov on.  Saddened that the .gov did not escalate the same way at the Bundy ranch, and other not so publicized events since.  I really think that some of you folks like to see the .gov go and kill our own.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of them did. An FBI assassin murdering a woman as she held an infant is exactly the kind of world the left dreams of.
> 
> The basic premise of the left is that your life belongs to the state, thus the state can do anything they like with or to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putz.... the FBI was run under a rightie president when that woman was shot. WTF is wrong with you?
Click to expand...


Who and/or what party was in the White House was not part of this discussion. So nothing is wrong with either of us.  What about you? Did you cheer the .gov's actions in Ruby Ridge and Waco?


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, but despite the verbosity, you didn't actually answer my question.
> 
> Let's try a different approach..... you show the Hammonds started with 6,000 acres in 1964 .... how many acres do they have now...?
> 
> 
> 
> The reluctance of Teddy's response leads me to believe the answer must be zero. The government has taken none of the Hammond's land.
Click to expand...


You are correct Faun, I did not specifically answer your question, so I guess you win, as I do not have a number to give you as to how many actual acres.  However, let me go back and put in what I did write in my lengthy post so you can re-read it; albeit without a number figure:



> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*





> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with "disturbing and interfering with" federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony). He spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland before he was hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.






> (d) The FWS also began restricting access to upper pieces of the Hammond’s private property. In order to get to the upper part of the Hammond’s ranch they had to go on a road that went through the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge. The FWS began barricading the road and threatening the Hammonds if they drove through it. The Hammonds removed the barricades and gates and continued to use their right of access. The road was proven later to be owned by the County of Harney. This further enraged the BLM & FWS.


----------



## teddyearp

teddyearp said:


> For the rest, no comment on Rep. Greg Walden's address to the U.S. House?



Anyone watch that video yet?


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Teen chokes up at town meeting asking Bundy to leave: ‘I shouldn’t have to be scared in my own hometown’*



Been away from this thread for a bit, heard about this and now finally watched this video.  I know she was called a 'prostitute' a term that I find very harsh and undeserving.

However, upon watching this, I have to ask.  What is it she keeps looking up at on the far wall?  She has to look up there several times before she gets her eyes down to the crowd, and then at the finish, she has to look back up again.  What is it?


----------



## Old Rocks

This thread really has nothing to do with the Hammond's anymore. It is about the illegal armed occupation of the Federal Property. It is about the Bundy's illegal trespass on the private property of Tim Puckett. They illegally tore down a fence between his property and that of the Refuge, a fence he has since rebuilt. And warned that he would not tolerate another such trespass. It is about a situation that could easily spiral out of control. Time for the law to take the appropriate action, and arrest the miscreants.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

Old Rocks said:


> This thread really has nothing to do with the Hammond's anymore. It is about the illegal armed occupation of the Federal Property. It is about the Bundy's illegal trespass on the private property of Tim Puckett. They illegally tore down a fence between his property and that of the Refuge, a fence he has since rebuilt. And warned that he would not tolerate another such trespass. It is about a situation that could easily spiral out of control. Time for the law to take the appropriate action, and arrest the miscreants.



It ceased being about the Hammonds the minute they disavowed the action at the refuge. It is and really always was about the further adventures of the criminal Bundys.


----------



## teddyearp

bodecea said:


> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?



What have they walked away with? Exactly where and how far have they taken ANYTHING from that property?


----------



## teddyearp

Skylar said:


> And they've taken property. Which is the very definition of theft.



Where and how far have they taken any property from that location?


----------



## teddyearp

Skylar said:


> For the third time.....and do pay attention this time, please.......the computers, the evacuator and the files.



And again please. Where and how far away from that location have they taken those items.  And you need to know how to spell e x c a v a t o r.


----------



## Old Rocks

Mr. Teddy, why don't you just try to go into your local police garage, get in a cruiser, drive it around the garage for a while, and then tell the police you cannot be arrested because you did not leave the garage. You are just as wrong as jc. This is a clear case of criminal trespass, of sedition, and unlawful use of government property. As well as trespass on private property. The involved in the armed occupation of the Refuge are criminals, and should be treated as such.


----------



## teddyearp

koshergrl said:


> <snip> that are checkerboarded within BLM land.



Unfortunately, this is not quite true.  Many 'ranch' lands in the west are heavily checker boarded with alternating sections, but I looked at the Harney County GIS and the checker boarding there is not as heavy as many other places.


----------



## teddyearp

koshergrl said:


> Hahahaha oh well, all I have to do is wait 5 minutes, they'll lie about something.



Actually the correct thing is that they will continue to promulgate all the current lies about the situation.


----------



## teddyearp

koshergrl said:


> Meanwhile, the locals are sick of the feds.



So why is most everyone ignoring this???????


----------



## teddyearp

koshergrl said:


> Perspectives: That, boys and girls, is why we go to the source | St George News



READ THIS for the win!


----------



## teddyearp

Hutch Starskey said:


> Nice meltdown!



I don't blame her since folks like you refuse to look at the "other" links and videos provided.


----------



## teddyearp

Skylar said:


> And where are the videos, Kosher?



Already posted in this thread that you and others have conveniently ignored. Why not read more and post less?


----------



## Hutch Starskey

teddyearp said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice meltdown!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blame her since folks like you refuse to look at the "other" links and videos provided.
Click to expand...


None of those links either excuse the actions taken or reflect reality. There have been twice as many links provided showing just the opposite. If you actually read the thread, you would see her position is not credible absent a conspiracy involving everyone who does not support the action taken.


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Here is what witnesses said:
> 
> The Many Hypocrisies of the Oregon Standoff
> 
> The 2001 fire, a jury found, was *set to conceal the illegal slaughter of deer *on Bureau of Land Management property. Here is the government account of this incident:
> “*Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds,* testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out ‘Strike Anywhere’ matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to ‘light up the whole country on fire.’ One witness testified that he barely escaped the eight to ten foot high flames caused by the arson. The fire consumed 139 acres of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations.  … *Dwight and Steven Hammond told one of their relatives to keep his mouth shut and that nobody needed to know about the fire.”*​


*All of the above is a bald faced lie!  Do you know the difference between an Indictment and a conviction? No, didn't think so. The Judge threw out that testimony and it was NOT proven at trial that any fire was to cover up any poaching.*


----------



## teddyearp

Hutch Starskey said:


> Eyewitnesses with an agenda similar to yours. There were hundreds of firefighters on the scene fighting that fire for days. The region was given evacuation warnings. Those ranchers said their cattle were burned out on the range. Why were they out there at all with wildfires in the area?  The ranchers should have rounded them up sooner. Firefighters do their best to save property but aren't always successful. To say that any firefighter deliberately destroyed property is not only dishonest but straight up crazy.



koshergirl provided a video as proof of her point about the BLM setting the fires.  What proof can you provide to make your point?


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *George Washington would not side with the West's sagebrush rebels*
> 
> The armed militants who have taken over a national wildlife refuge in southeast Oregon need to study their country’s earliest history. <snip>



Really? The history of the Whiskey Rebellion and this event have less to do with each other than apples and oranges.  More like dead dogs and roses.


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> Kosher is a lying little bitch. Sheriff West's wife has had the tires on her car slashed. There have been threats against the life of Sheriff West.



So please tell me who Sheriff West is?  Never heard of him in this event.  Now who's the lying little bitch?  Why don't you just trot on down to your local Portland pot shop, buy another bag, spleef another reef and get the fuck out of this.


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> Mr. Teddy, why don't you just try to go into your local police garage, get in a cruiser, drive it around the garage for a while, and then tell the police you cannot be arrested because you did not leave the garage. You are just as wrong as jc. This is a clear case of criminal trespass, of sedition, and unlawful use of government property. As well as trespass on private property. The involved in the armed occupation of the Refuge are criminals, and should be treated as such.



Mr Rocks, I'll tell you why.  Because it is not the local police that are the underlying cause of the frustration(s) being expressed here.  Simple as that.


----------



## teddyearp

Hutch Starskey said:


> <snip>If you actually read the thread, you would see her position is not credible absent a conspiracy involving everyone who does not support the action taken.



Mr Starskey, I have read the whole thread, and do see that there is a slight amount of things posted by kosher that are somewhat 'conspiracy' related. If you would ACTUALLY read the the thread yourself before posting such, you would see in posts # 2409 and 2410 (yours that I have quoted here being #2415, so they are just above yours) I refuted and corrected them.

Read more, post less.  I try to live by this, do you?


----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> And where are the videos, Kosher?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Already posted in this thread that you and others have conveniently ignored. Why not read more and post less?
Click to expand...

The video in question was one koshergirl claimed showed the interior of the buildings being filthy and rat infested.. She was unable to provide a link to the video, and instead posted an unrelated one. Some folks continued to ask for links to the video of the filthy rat infested interiors. She never found or was able to provide the video. I found a youtube video of the interior while being occupied by the Bundy crew and it showed an immaculately clean and well-kept facility.


----------



## teddyearp

So from what I am taking away from this thread, the whole intent of threads on USMB is not to actually debate and research both sides of any issue at all, is this true cereal_killer ?

It seems as though it is just a slug fest.  Most here just want to read and believe as total and complete truth every thing the main stream media has related about the Hammonds as well as the occupation of the refuge.  There have been numerous video (and other) links posted in this thread that shows a different side from that which the MSM has hand fed the dogs.  But who cares?  Apparently no one but maybe four of us.

The rest just ignore the other side of the story and promulgate the media lies or at best, half truths.

If anyone REALLY wants to continue to debate this event, PLEASE at least watch the video of the congressman from that part of Oregon; his speech to the House in Washington, D.C.

There are two sides, and though there are some pretty extreme things being said by both, if you do not actually research and try to find some of the truth that is in there, than you are nothing but a shill.


----------



## teddyearp

Camp said:


> The video in question was one koshergirl claimed showed the interior of the buildings being filthy and rat infested.. She was unable to provide a link to the video, and instead posted an unrelated one. Some folks continued to ask for links to the video of the filthy rat infested interiors. She never found or was able to provide the video. I found a youtube video of the interior while being occupied by the Bundy crew and it showed an immaculately clean and well-kept facility.



 I'm sorry, I guess I hitchhiked into the middle of that part of the debate.  I missed the part about rat infested and wouldn't have believed it either.


----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fascinating...so you can walk into any government building or land and walk away with anything you want?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What have they walked away with? Exactly where and how far have they taken ANYTHING from that property?
Click to expand...

They took a truck pulling a trailer with a tracked CAT front end loader, probably a combined total value of over $50,000 to a ranch with media in tow to commit an act of vandalism by cutting down a fence and using the CAT to remove the fence post. That little trip was a felony.


----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> So from what I am taking away from this thread, the whole intent of threads on USMB is not to actually debate and research both sides of any issue at all, is this true cereal_killer ?
> 
> It seems as though it is just a slug fest.  Most here just want to read and believe as total and complete truth every thing the main stream media has related about the Hammonds as well as the occupation of the refuge.  There have been numerous video (and other) links posted in this thread that shows a different side from that which the MSM has hand fed the dogs.  But who cares?  Apparently no one but maybe four of us.
> 
> The rest just ignore the other side of the story and promulgate the media lies or at best, half truths.
> 
> If anyone REALLY wants to continue to debate this event, PLEASE at least watch the video of the congressman from that part of Oregon; his speech to the House in Washington, D.C.
> 
> There are two sides, and though there are some pretty extreme things being said by both, if you do not actually research and try to find some of the truth that is in there, than you are nothing but a shill.


What you are missing is that much of the defensive debate is viewed by rational people as diversions, deflections and sideshows to the prime point, and the only one that needs immediate attention. That point being that armed men have taken over a federal facility the way rebels do in third world countries. They are demanding prisoners be released from prison. That is what middle eastern terrorist do. 
I have repeatedly asked what makes these guys, or ranchers for that matter, special and privileged to the point that they do not have to follow the laws everyone else does? Who elected them to determine how our public lands are managed and used? 

The video of the Congressman you want people to watch shows a Congressman trying to put lipstick on a pig, but even he makes it clear he does not support the way Bundy and crew have gone about making their points. 
The Bundy's now call themselves Citizens for Constitutional Freedom. Think about that name for a moment. What does it mean? How would Freud view that phrase? Is it an epic Freudian slip? The Bundy actions suggest they want the freedom to interpret the Constitution the way they want. They certainly are not following the Constitution the way the Constitution prescribes that it be interpreted.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

teddyearp said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eyewitnesses with an agenda similar to yours. There were hundreds of firefighters on the scene fighting that fire for days. The region was given evacuation warnings. Those ranchers said their cattle were burned out on the range. Why were they out there at all with wildfires in the area?  The ranchers should have rounded them up sooner. Firefighters do their best to save property but aren't always successful. To say that any firefighter deliberately destroyed property is not only dishonest but straight up crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergirl provided a video as proof of her point about the BLM setting the fires.  What proof can you provide to make your point?
Click to expand...


It's in the thread fool. Actually, the link was in the very post you quoted but somehow left out. You're either an idiot or a fool. Maybe both.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

teddyearp said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>If you actually read the thread, you would see her position is not credible absent a conspiracy involving everyone who does not support the action taken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Starskey, I have read the whole thread, and do see that there is a slight amount of things posted by kosher that are somewhat 'conspiracy' related. If you would ACTUALLY read the the thread yourself before posting such, you would see in posts # 2409 and 2410 (yours that I have quoted here being #2415, so they are just above yours) I refuted and corrected them.
> 
> Read more, post less.  I try to live by this, do you?
Click to expand...


No you  haven't read the thread and you are stupidly supporting her position.
She has refuted, as conspiracy, evidence from the town council, the sheriff, the community, fellow ranchers, county officials, the Oregon cattlemen's association, the governor, the BLM, the FBI, and the supreme court.
Still want to argue on her behalf?


----------



## Hutch Starskey

teddyearp said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The video in question was one koshergirl claimed showed the interior of the buildings being filthy and rat infested.. She was unable to provide a link to the video, and instead posted an unrelated one. Some folks continued to ask for links to the video of the filthy rat infested interiors. She never found or was able to provide the video. I found a youtube video of the interior while being occupied by the Bundy crew and it showed an immaculately clean and well-kept facility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I guess I hitchhiked into the middle of that part of the debate.  I missed the part about rat infested and wouldn't have believed it either.
Click to expand...


Then you didn't read the thread or have no comprehension skills because that point went on for pages. I read it days ago and remember quite well.


----------



## Old Rocks

teddyearp said:


> QUOTE="Old Rocks, post: 13249959, member: 13758"]Kosher is a lying little bitch. Sheriff West's wife has had the tires on her car slashed. There have been threats against the life of Sheriff West.



So please tell me who Sheriff West is?  Never heard of him in this event.  Now who's the lying little bitch?  Why don't you just trot on down to your local Portland pot shop, buy another bag, spleef another reef and get the fuck out of this.[/QUOTE]
Dear llittle corksmoker Teddy. Never have used pot, never will. You seem to know all about it, and, given that one of the evidences of usage is stupidity, you apparently are a heavy user.

Sheriff Ward, make you happy? There is no excuse for what the Bundy's are doing. And they are completely alienating the local people, sans a few brainless fruitloops.


----------



## Camp

oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/01/oregon_standoff_answers_to_que.html

Interesting and informative synopsis of the constitutional legal issue by a professor and expert on land law.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

The outsider armed terrorist stole the domestic tranquility of the community and prevented the children of the community from attending school.........


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Has The Sovereign Citizen Movement Hijacked The Oregon Standoff?*



The refuge has been visited by a self-proclaimed judge collecting “evidence” against the federal government for a citizen grand jury, Idaho lawmakers on a ‘fact-finding mission,’ uninvited militiamen from the Patriot movement who wanted to form a perimeter at the compound and individuals from Veterans on Patrol whose stated mission was to remove an occupier they deemed dangerous.


----------



## RodISHI

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Has The Sovereign Citizen Movement Hijacked The Oregon Standoff?*
> 
> 
> 
> The refuge has been visited by a self-proclaimed judge collecting “evidence” against the federal government for a citizen grand jury, Idaho lawmakers on a ‘fact-finding mission,’ uninvited militiamen from the Patriot movement who wanted to form a perimeter at the compound and individuals from Veterans on Patrol whose stated mission was to remove an occupier they deemed dangerous.


I just knew you were an idiot, thanks for confirming it.


----------



## teddyearp

Ok, ok, I never said I actually agreed with what Bundy is doing, but anyways on this I know I am right:

Who ever says that this is ruining the economy of Burns and Harney county is dead wrong.  I bet the hotels are full as are the restaurants.  Burns will miss them when their gone, lol.


----------



## basquebromance




----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> Mr. Teddy, why don't you just try to go into your local police garage, get in a cruiser, drive it around the garage for a while, and then tell the police you cannot be arrested because you did not leave the garage. You are just as wrong as jc. This is a clear case of criminal trespass, of sedition, and unlawful use of government property. As well as trespass on private property. The involved in the armed occupation of the Refuge are criminals, and should be treated as such.


no charges right? It isn't illegal until someone puts up a charge.


----------



## Dot Com

Y'all Qaeda still having their sit-in?

Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk


----------



## jc456

Dot Com said:


> Y'all Qaeda still having their sit-in?
> 
> Sent from my VS415PP using Tapatalk


and?

Any charges?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Unarmed black protesters were ‘forcibly removed’ and jailed after they tried to occupy a wildlife refuge in 1979*

After a group of armed militants seized an Oregon nature preserve earlier this month, many wondered: What would have happened if they were black?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*BUSTED: Nevada Republican lied about FBI agents posing as militants at Oregon standoff*


----------



## jc456

any charges filed yet?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> any charges filed yet?


My my....you are impatient.    Stand by.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> any charges filed yet?
> 
> 
> 
> My my....you are impatient.    Stand by.
Click to expand...

it's been almost two weeks, and you all have been babbling the entire time.  And yet?  

hahaahhhhahahahahahahahahaaha, the local sheriff isn't going to do anything, it will need to be the FBI and they remain quiet.

And again, all your babbling is so far pointless.  ain't that funny?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Bundy Bodyguard 'Fluffy Unicorn' Arrested in Arizona*


----------



## Camp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Bundy Bodyguard 'Fluffy Unicorn' Arrested in Arizona*


Another one, a guy named Kenneth Medenback was arrested at the local grocery store by State Police for theft of two Malheur Wildlife Refuge vehicles. The vehicles were reported stolen at the very beginning of the takeover. He must have been stocking up on snacks at the local Safeway grocery store.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> any charges filed yet?
> 
> 
> 
> My my....you are impatient.    Stand by.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's been almost two weeks, and you all have been babbling the entire time.  And yet?
> 
> hahaahhhhahahahahahahahahaaha, the local sheriff isn't going to do anything, it will need to be the FBI and they remain quiet.
> 
> And again, all your babbling is so far pointless.  ain't that funny?
Click to expand...

The one babbling is you. You are operating on some dumb idea in your head that law enforcement is required to make an arrest on some specific timetable and not permitted to sit on warrants while they gather further information for additional charges and arrest.
Here is information on the truck and van theft arrest and another separate  crime of interfering with an investigation and obstruction of justice. Details about the theft and arrest are contained in this article.

ktvz.com/oregon-sheriffs-association-defends-ward-in-harney-response/37436072


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Arrested Oregon militant has history of illegally occupying federal lands — and was recently released on one condition*

The first militant arrested by law enforcement in connection with the armed standoff on federal land in Oregon had been in federal custody and was released on one condition — don’t occupy federal land.


----------



## Arianrhod

Arrested when they drove a stolen truck to the local Safeway.


----------



## teddyearp

Hutch Starskey said:


> Then you didn't read the thread or have no comprehension skills because that point went on for pages. I read it days ago and remember quite well.



Oh please good sir, forgive me for scrolling through some of the most ridiculous of the posts. Like the rat shit parts.  I am sure you have read every single post so you could make sure that you could impugn my character and comprehension skills.


----------



## teddyearp

Hutch Starskey said:


> No you  haven't read the thread and you are stupidly supporting her position.



Forgive me oh thou smarter than I.  I posted that I do not support every single point of koshergirl's position. But I am stupid.  You win.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> any charges filed yet?
> 
> 
> 
> My my....you are impatient.    Stand by.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's been almost two weeks, and you all have been babbling the entire time.  And yet?
> 
> hahaahhhhahahahahahahahahaaha, the local sheriff isn't going to do anything, it will need to be the FBI and they remain quiet.
> 
> And again, all your babbling is so far pointless.  ain't that funny?
Click to expand...

Stand by, Mr.  "Pay Attention to Me"


----------



## bodecea

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Arrested Oregon militant has history of illegally occupying federal lands — and was recently released on one condition*
> 
> The first militant arrested by law enforcement in connection with the armed standoff on federal land in Oregon had been in federal custody and was released on one condition — don’t occupy federal land.


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Has The Sovereign Citizen Movement Hijacked The Oregon Standoff?*


*http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckra...do-sovereign-citizens-have-in-oregon-standoff*
I certainly hope not as the Sovereign citizen movement is IMHO a old joke who's time has passed . . . . There used to be some merit to the "Common Law" courts, but the movement has turned into more of a joke than Alex Jones.


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Unarmed black protesters were ‘forcibly removed’ and jailed after they tried to occupy a wildlife refuge in 1979*
> 
> After a group of armed militants seized an Oregon nature preserve earlier this month, many wondered: What would have happened if they were black?



Tyrone, I wish you would finally throw out your black and white TV.  The rest of us all have color TV's now.  Get it?


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *BUSTED: Nevada Republican lied about FBI agents posing as militants at Oregon standoff*



While some of the 'claims' that were attributed to the now resigned Fire Marshall have now been debunked, it is a fact that if I were down there and saw an FBI agent driving around, there is nothing about how they look, how they are armed, and how they are dressed that makes them look any different than SOME of the 'militia' folks in that area.  Well, unless you look REALLY close and possibly see the little FBI badge on their belt or the small FBI lettering on some of their vests.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

teddyearp said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *BUSTED: Nevada Republican lied about FBI agents posing as militants at Oregon standoff*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While some of the 'claims' that were attributed to the now resigned Fire Marshall have now been debunked, it is a fact that if I were down there and saw an FBI agent driving around, there is nothing about how they look, how they are armed, and how they are dressed that makes them look any different than SOME of the 'militia' folks in that area.  Well, unless you look REALLY close and possibly see the little FBI badge on their belt or the small FBI lettering on some of their vests.
Click to expand...


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Bundy Bodyguard 'Fluffy Unicorn' Arrested in Arizona*



Let's take a closer look at this article:



> Ammon Bundy's bodyguard from the early days of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge standoff has been arrested for an outstanding warrant in Maricopa County, Arizona, *according to a report from E and E Publishing.*



So, E and E Publishing is now a law enforcement agency?  The linked article on E and E publishing now calls him by a different name:



> Brian Cavalier, 44, who was known on the Oregon refuge as "Booda Bear,"



Further down it says:



> Cavalier was booked into the Maricopa County jail, where he was later released by a judge. Details on the warrant were not immediately available, but one source said it did not involve federal violations.



I really could care less at this point.  The odds are already stacked against me.  No one here gives a rat's ass.  They just want to lap up the half truths and lies and attack those very few of us who only try to get the rest to look a tiny bit deeper into the torrent of accusations.  Just a tiny bit to make you want to think and go, "Hmmm."

so, go ahead and continue.  Attack the shit out of every word and every post and every link I attempt to post to make you see something outside of your blinders.

I could give a frack.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

teddyearp said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then you didn't read the thread or have no comprehension skills because that point went on for pages. I read it days ago and remember quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please good sir, forgive me for scrolling through some of the most ridiculous of the posts. Like the rat shit parts.  I am sure you have read every single post so you could make sure that you could impugn my character and comprehension skills.
Click to expand...


I've followed it from the beginning.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

teddyearp said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you  haven't read the thread and you are stupidly supporting her position.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me oh thou smarter than I.  I posted that I do not support every single point of koshergirl's position. But I am stupid.  You win.
Click to expand...


I didn't say you supported every point she made. I was responding to the point where you did. You really do have a problem following the conversation.


----------



## teddyearp

Hutch Starskey said:


> I didn't say you supported every point she made. I was responding to the point where you did. You really do have a problem following the conversation.



And you are correct in a way. I have followed the conversation as best as I can.  I find it hard to try to scroll through a thread that grows this fast and really attempt to read every post, especially when I see so many that are off topic and full of personal attacks, so therefore I have scrolled too far at times and not read every single post.  I guess I'm getting too old for this . . . . . you win.


----------



## teddyearp

And on that note, all of you .gov lovers and progressives win.  I resign.  All the odds are on the house.  I see that clearly now.  I hope that the FBI just goes in and wipes those at the refuge off the face of the map, guns a blazing; that is what you all want, right?  Because that is all most of seem to want.  Blood.  You could care less about the deeper questions that should have been raised in this thread.  There has, IMHO been a bit of information posted that could have been sifted through for a thinking person to try and truthfully debate this situation, but truthful debate is not part of this section of USMB. Personal attacks and lapping up what the .gov MSM as truth is.

No, logic is not allowed here.  Truth or any attempt at finding it in between the two different sides of the story are not allowed.  Only personal attacks and bullshit is all.  Tyrone has called me and asshole.  I say "F" you.  Bet that even gets me an infraction.

All I have to do now is wait for it, wait for it, and see how many tag my post as 'funny' starting with Mr Black and White (aka Tyrone) and on down, and then I know I am right, if only in my mind.

So, I sign off of this thread and here is me . . . . .



















ignoring the rest of the personal attacks on me and those others who have tried and failed to make you folks try to think for yourselves.


----------



## SwimExpert

peach174 said:


> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.



*facepalm*

How can they own the ranch when the federal government owns it?


----------



## Camp

SwimExpert said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> The Hammonds own that ranch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *facepalm*
> 
> How can they own the ranch when the federal government owns it?
Click to expand...


farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=A09419096

This is why they are referred to as welfare ranchers.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Amanda Peacher Verified account * ‏@*amandapeacher* 
Approx 100 anti occupation protesters #*inbend*. #*Oregonstandoff*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*"What gives these people more right to the land than a teacher, who wants to take his/her students to the refuge?" - Kim Jones of Hailey, Idaho*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Dan Barton* ‏@*oreothlypis*  7h7 hours ago
@*OPB* has confirmed #*bundymilitia* has accessed govt. credit card numbers and employee personal info. #*oregonstandoff* http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/for-now-law-enforcement-and-militants-wont-cross-tracks/ …


----------



## Agit8r

Anarchy for the rich. Fascism for the poor.


----------



## basquebromance




----------



## ChrisL

So, what do you think about this "conspiracy?"  Are some of you people actually supporters of eminent domain?  Good!  I hope the feds come and confiscate your property.    That would be awesome.  

I find it hard to believe that anyone could support this travesty of justice.  You are some really rotten people, that is FO SURE!  

The following is just PART of the story of what is going on and how the government is screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.  

*HISTORY:* (aa) The Harney Basin (where the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
(ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
(a) In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
(a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
(a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
(a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
(a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
(b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
(c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.


----------



## Camp

ChrisL said:


> So, what do you think about this "conspiracy?"  Are some of you people actually supporters of eminent domain?  Good!  I hope the feds come and confiscate your property.    That would be awesome.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone could support this travesty of justice.  You are some really rotten people, that is FO SURE!
> 
> The following is just PART of the story of what is going on and how the government is screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.
> 
> *HISTORY:* (aa) The Harney Basin (where the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.


Where did you get this alleged history? There are some very noticeable misrepresentations that are obviously agenda driven for the benefit of promoting private ranches. Can you provide the source or is this essay your own creation?


----------



## QuickHitCurepon

Camp said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what do you think about this "conspiracy?"  Are some of you people actually supporters of eminent domain?  Good!  I hope the feds come and confiscate your property.    That would be awesome.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone could support this travesty of justice.  You are some really rotten people, that is FO SURE!
> 
> The following is just PART of the story of what is going on and how the government is screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.
> 
> *HISTORY:* (aa) The Harney Basin (where the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get this alleged history? There are some very noticeable misrepresentations that are obviously agenda driven for the benefit on promoting private ranches. Can you provide the source or is this essay your own creation?
Click to expand...


The Park Service influences it because they have four borders to look after. Everything follows.


----------



## QuickHitCurepon

Agit8r said:


> Anarchy for the rich. Fascism for the poor.



Dance in your own street idiot.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

WATCH: Oregon lawmaker opens can of whoop-ass on feds for ignoring ‘ultra-rightwing extremist’ Bundys

Asking “Is anybody home?” an Oregon lawmaker tore into the U.S. Justice Department for sitting on their hands and letting “ultra-rightwing anti-government extremists” occupy the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, KEZI is reporting.

Democratic Rep. Peter DeFazio, who represents Eugene, Oregon, took to the floor of the House of Representatives where he mocked the Justice Department for their continuing hands-off approach when it comes to all things Bundy.

“The heat and the lights are on  at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, illegally occupied by ultra-rightwing anti-government extremists,” DeFazio began, “But you gotta wonder if the lights are on or is anybody home down there at the Justice Department.”
“Hello” he sarcastically cried before adding, “I don’t think there’s anybody there.”

“I believe that this illegal occupation, this destruction of federal property was directly emboldened by the fact that their father of the two leaders, Cliven Bundy, stood down the government two years ago when he owed a million dollars — other ranchers paid their grazing fees, he refuses to do it. And he was grazing in areas that were prohibited,” he exclaimed. “And he stood down the government at the point of a gun, and he’s still grazing and nobody, _nobody_ at the Justice Department has seen fit to raise a finger against him.”

“He celebrated the anniversary of the takeover and said ‘this is how it’s done.’ And now his sons are replicating that in my state of Oregon, where we abide by the laws,” Rep. DeFazio said. “Yeah, we disagree over a lot of federal policies, but we abide by the laws.”
“It’s time for the Justice Department to take some action. Wake up down there!” he shouted.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*I certainly do not want anyone killed in this confrontation however the spectacle or armed brazen recalcitrant  criminals parading around on Government property has to stop.  they need to be confronted put on trial and placed in a penitentiary for several years to "think things over"..............*


----------



## ChrisL

Camp said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what do you think about this "conspiracy?"  Are some of you people actually supporters of eminent domain?  Good!  I hope the feds come and confiscate your property.    That would be awesome.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone could support this travesty of justice.  You are some really rotten people, that is FO SURE!
> 
> The following is just PART of the story of what is going on and how the government is screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.
> 
> *HISTORY:* (aa) The Harney Basin (where the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get this alleged history? There are some very noticeable misrepresentations that are obviously agenda driven for the benefit of promoting private ranches. Can you provide the source or is this essay your own creation?
Click to expand...


What parts do you feel have been misrepresented?


----------



## Old Rocks

Pretty much the whole spiel. A right wingnut history that has little to do with the actual facts, and fails to recognize some other major factors in the history of that area. Problem for people like you is that the people there, and those that have roots in the area know the history, and are not buying into these wingnut fantasies.


----------



## ChrisL

Old Rocks said:


> Pretty much the whole spiel. A right wingnut history that has little to do with the actual facts, and fails to recognize some other major factors in the history of that area. Problem for people like you is that the people there, and those that have roots in the area know the history, and are not buying into these wingnut fantasies.



What is untrue about it?  Please specify and show me your evidence that is to the contrary.


----------



## Old Rocks

Yes, they had more cattle and sheep there in the 1880's and 1900. But they also overgrazed the land, causing a lot of damage. Not only that, the climate of that area at that time was not only colder, but also wetter. At the time, it was not successfully supporting the number of livestock, as in maintaining the health of the land. And today, at the end of a four year drought it most definately cannot support those kinds of numbers. 

The Malhuer Game Refuge is a unique area in the whole of the US. And supports not only a wonderful variety of birds, but provides wintering ground for elk and mule deer. Whatever it's use before, that is definately it's best use today. That people like you wish to destroy it, speaks to your lack of morality, and the fact that you care nothing for the future of this nation. 

You do not speak for the people in the area. Not for the Paiute, not for the people of Harney County, and not for the majority of Oregonians, who all want these outsider assholes to get the hell off the Refuge. 

The stupid bit about the Refuge people flooding the basin is over the top. The waters of the lakes in the Malhuer basin wax and wane according to snowpack and rainfall. In 1898, long before the Refuge, the lake waters reached the Burns city limits one spring. As for the Refuge controlling the irrigation water, during the depression, a lot of the land was purchased from ranchers that were going broke. A not uncommon occurance in the Harney basin. And, with the land, went the water rights. That is how the law on water works in Oregon.

Were it not for the government, half of the people in Harney County would be unemployed. There are few resources, other than the ranches that are fortunate enough to have year round water. And that is hardly a high profit operation. 

All you right wing nuts are doing is making life even harder for a lot of hard working people in Harney County. At some point, they are going to get enough of you, and kick all your asses out, other than those that end up buried right there.


----------



## Camp

ChrisL said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what do you think about this "conspiracy?"  Are some of you people actually supporters of eminent domain?  Good!  I hope the feds come and confiscate your property.    That would be awesome.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone could support this travesty of justice.  You are some really rotten people, that is FO SURE!
> 
> The following is just PART of the story of what is going on and how the government is screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.
> 
> *HISTORY:* (aa) The Harney Basin (where the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get this alleged history? There are some very noticeable misrepresentations that are obviously agenda driven for the benefit of promoting private ranches. Can you provide the source or is this essay your own creation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What parts do you feel have been misrepresented?
Click to expand...

At the very beginning, a claim is made that the ranchers created a state of the art irrigation system that in turn created an environment for migrating birds. Those lakes and waterways were used by migrating birds for thousands of years It was, in fact, a haphazard short-term system that destroyed the system and created a nonsustainable environment for continued cattle grazing while it destroyed the environment for wildlife habitation. This claim is a purposeful misdirection to the next entry.

The claim is made that Roosevelt ended up making the area an Indian Reservation for political purposes. It was President Grant that created the Malheur reservation in 1872 and made the lands taken away from the Paiutes available to ranchers. Roosevelt, the great conservationist, saw the massive destruction caused by those ranchers and created the Wildlife Refuge.

It should not be necessary to go on, paragraph by paragraph, section by section when the very beginning is found to be so blatantly wrong and manipulated into a disinformation political agenda driven piece missing any genuine historical content.


----------



## ChrisL

Camp said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what do you think about this "conspiracy?"  Are some of you people actually supporters of eminent domain?  Good!  I hope the feds come and confiscate your property.    That would be awesome.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone could support this travesty of justice.  You are some really rotten people, that is FO SURE!
> 
> The following is just PART of the story of what is going on and how the government is screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.
> 
> *HISTORY:* (aa) The Harney Basin (where the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get this alleged history? There are some very noticeable misrepresentations that are obviously agenda driven for the benefit of promoting private ranches. Can you provide the source or is this essay your own creation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What parts do you feel have been misrepresented?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the very beginning, a claim is made that the ranchers created a state of the art irrigation system that in turn created an environment for migrating birds. Those lakes and waterways were used by migrating birds for thousands of years It was, in fact, a haphazard short-term system that destroyed the system and created a nonsustainable environment for continued cattle grazing while it destroyed the environment for wildlife habitation. This claim is a purposeful misdirection to the next entry.
> 
> The claim is made that Roosevelt ended up making the area an Indian Reservation for political purposes. It was President Grant that created the Malheur reservation in 1872 and made the lands taken away from the Paiutes available to ranchers. Roosevelt, the great conservationist, saw the massive destruction caused by those ranchers and created the Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> It should not be necessary to go on, paragraph by paragraph, section by section when the very beginning is found to be so blatantly wrong and manipulated into a disinformation political agenda driven piece missing any genuine historical content.
Click to expand...


It says at first it was declared a conservation area for birds and then LATER it was declared an indian reservation.  Did you even read it?


----------



## Camp

ChrisL said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what do you think about this "conspiracy?"  Are some of you people actually supporters of eminent domain?  Good!  I hope the feds come and confiscate your property.    That would be awesome.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone could support this travesty of justice.  You are some really rotten people, that is FO SURE!
> 
> The following is just PART of the story of what is going on and how the government is screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.
> 
> *HISTORY:* (aa) The Harney Basin (where the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get this alleged history? There are some very noticeable misrepresentations that are obviously agenda driven for the benefit of promoting private ranches. Can you provide the source or is this essay your own creation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What parts do you feel have been misrepresented?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At the very beginning, a claim is made that the ranchers created a state of the art irrigation system that in turn created an environment for migrating birds. Those lakes and waterways were used by migrating birds for thousands of years It was, in fact, a haphazard short-term system that destroyed the system and created a nonsustainable environment for continued cattle grazing while it destroyed the environment for wildlife habitation. This claim is a purposeful misdirection to the next entry.
> 
> The claim is made that Roosevelt ended up making the area an Indian Reservation for political purposes. It was President Grant that created the Malheur reservation in 1872 and made the lands taken away from the Paiutes available to ranchers. Roosevelt, the great conservationist, saw the massive destruction caused by those ranchers and created the Wildlife Refuge.
> 
> It should not be necessary to go on, paragraph by paragraph, section by section when the very beginning is found to be so blatantly wrong and manipulated into a disinformation political agenda driven piece missing any genuine historical content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It says at first it was declared a conservation area for birds and then LATER it was declared an indian reservation.  Did you even read it?
Click to expand...

Yes, but I have also read more accurate histories and done my own historical research as well. That is how I know the first reservation was made in 1872 and in 1876 rescinded and the reservation returned to public lands, some of which was allocated to private ownership for ranchers. This was the cause of giving a small allotment to the Paiute when the wildlife refuge was created.  

digital.library.okstate.edu/kappler/vol1/html_files/ore0886.html


----------



## Hutch Starskey

Did these clowns ever announce their departure plans as they said they would?
I haven't seen any updates.

Armed Oregon Occupiers Plan to Tell Town When They'll Leave


----------



## Carla_Danger

ChrisL said:


> So, what do you think about this "conspiracy?"  Are some of you people actually supporters of eminent domain?  Good!  I hope the feds come and confiscate your property.    That would be awesome.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone could support this travesty of justice.  You are some really rotten people, that is FO SURE!
> 
> The following is just PART of the story of what is going on and how the government is screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.
> 
> *HISTORY:* (aa) The Harney Basin (where the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.





Where's the link?


----------



## Arianrhod

Carla_Danger said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what do you think about this "conspiracy?"  Are some of you people actually supporters of eminent domain?  Good!  I hope the feds come and confiscate your property.    That would be awesome.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone could support this travesty of justice.  You are some really rotten people, that is FO SURE!
> 
> The following is just PART of the story of what is going on and how the government is screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.
> 
> *HISTORY:* (aa) The Harney Basin (where the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's the link?
Click to expand...


It's from a site called - wait for it - The Conservative Treehouse.  So appropriate! 

Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...


----------



## Carla_Danger

Arianrhod said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what do you think about this "conspiracy?"  Are some of you people actually supporters of eminent domain?  Good!  I hope the feds come and confiscate your property.    That would be awesome.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that anyone could support this travesty of justice.  You are some really rotten people, that is FO SURE!
> 
> The following is just PART of the story of what is going on and how the government is screwing WE THE PEOPLE over.
> 
> *HISTORY:* (aa) The Harney Basin (where the Hammond ranch is established) was settled in the 1870’s. The valley was settled by multiple ranchers and was known to have run over 300,000 head of cattle. These ranchers developed a state of the art irrigated system to water the meadows, and it soon became a favorite stopping place for migrating birds on their annual trek north.
> (ab) In 1908 President Theodor Roosevelt, in a political scheme, create an “Indian reservation” around the Malheur, Mud & Harney Lakes and declared it “as a preserve and breeding ground for native birds”. Later this “Indian reservation” (without Indians) became the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
> (a) In 1964 the Hammonds’ purchased their ranch in the Harney Basin. The purchase included approximately 6000 acres of private property, 4 grazing rights on public land, a small ranch house and 3 water rights. The ranch is around 53 miles South of Burns, Oregon.
> (a1) By the 1970’s nearly all the ranches adjacent to the Blitzen Valley were purchased by the US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) and added to the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. The refuge covers over 187,000 acres, stretches over 45 miles long and 37 miles wide. The expansion of the refuge grew and surrounds to the Hammond’s ranch. Approached many times by the FWS, the Hammonds refused to sell. Other ranchers also choose not to sell.
> (a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain. Refuge personnel took over the irrigation system claiming it as their own.
> (a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.
> (a4) By the 1990’s the Hammonds were one of the very few ranchers who still owned private property adjacent to the refuge. Susie Hammond in an effort to make sense of what was going on began compiling facts about the refuge. In a hidden public record she found a study done by the FWS in 1975. The study showed the “no use” policies of the FWS on the refuge were causing the wildlife to leave the refuge and move to private property. The study showed the private property adjacent to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge produced four times more ducks and geese than the refuge.  The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.
> (b) In the early 1990’s the Hammonds filed on a livestock water source and obtained a deed for the water right from the State of Oregon. When the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and US Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) found out the Hammonds obtained new water rights near the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge, they were agitated and became belligerent and vindictive toward the Hammonds. The US Fish and Wildlife Service challenged the Hammonds right to the water in an Oregon State Circuit Court. The court found the Hammonds legally obtained rights to the water in accordance to State law and therefore the use of the water belongs to the Hammonds.*
> (c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony).  Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where's the link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's from a site called - wait for it - The Conservative Treehouse.  So appropriate!
> 
> Full Story About What's Going on In Oregon - "Militia" Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution...
Click to expand...




That's all I need to know.  Thank you.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Pretty much the whole spiel. A right wingnut history that has little to do with the actual facts, and fails to recognize some other major factors in the history of that area. Problem for people like you is that the people there, and those that have roots in the area know the history, and are not buying into these wingnut fantasies.


The people who live there despise the feds and want them out.


----------



## koshergrl

The feds put up cameras to track locals, and the locals helped take them down.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much the whole spiel. A right wingnut history that has little to do with the actual facts, and fails to recognize some other major factors in the history of that area. Problem for people like you is that the people there, and those that have roots in the area know the history, and are not buying into these wingnut fantasies.
> 
> 
> 
> The people who live there despise the feds and want them out.
Click to expand...

Poor Allie, still pretending you have an In with this story.


----------



## koshergrl

Behind the Harney County standoff, decades of economic decline


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Behind the Harney County standoff, decades of economic decline


Cool stories, Allie.


----------



## Old Rocks

Kosher doesn't know the people there, she doesn't know the area at all. She tried to claim upfront that it was only a small single building at the refuge. Kept that nonsense up even in the face of posted aerial pictures of the compound. Then claimed that the townspeople were in full support of the militia. Until they had a meeting of hundreds of the local resident, and unanimously stated that they wanted the outsiders to leave ASAP.

The townspeople and ranchers want the assholes out of there, and if the militia crosses more people like Tim Puckett, they may find themselves in major trouble with a group of people far tougher than they ever dreamed of being.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Behind the Harney County standoff, decades of economic decline



[FONT=Benton Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Behind the Harney County standoff, decades of economic decline[/FONT]
Yet Harney County makes a paradoxical stage for activists seeking to limit the federal government's role in land management.
Nearly half of the county's jobs -- 45 percent -- are on public payrolls. No other county in 2013 derived a greater share of wages from the government than Harney County, said Josh Lehner, an economist who has researched rural Oregon for his job at the Oregon Office of Economic Analysis.
The federal government's role is particularly large. It accounts for 12 percent of jobs but 20 percent of all wages earned outside of farms.
"If you take federal away, you might as well finish making us a ghost town," said Jan Cupernall, of Burns, who sits on the local historical society board.
*The timber to the north of Burns was over harvested during the '80's. And Ponderosa Pine takes longer to grow than does Douglas Fir. And a modern mill employs far fewer people than the old mills did. Automation has taken many of the jobs that men used to perform. I know, I helped build many of the machines, like automatic stackers, that mills use today. *

*So, even when the timber comes back, there won't be the jobs there used to be. Simple fact for the rural areas of Oregon and many other states. The only out for those towns is to go the route of The Dalles and Prineville, and attract the new technologies of Google and Amazon. *

*For Burns, this would be alternative energies. South of Burns, the Malhuer, Guano, and Warner Valley basins have high potential for geothermal. The basalt ridges between have very high potential for wind, and the area has sunlight most of the year. What is lacking is a grid to pick up the energy. Were the federal government to put a very large capacity grid across the area, connecting to California, they could sell leases and charge by the megawatt for transmission. The power companies would gain profit, the money made by the BLM and government could be used for paying for the grid, and for maintenance of the special places like the Refuge, and camping areas within the high desert. *


----------



## bodecea

Just checking in....I heard they all have Pink Eye now.


----------



## koshergrl

Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.



The feds have no authority over Federal land?

Says who? The constitution itself delegates the authority for establishing rules for Federal property to Congress.


----------



## SwimExpert

koshergrl said:


> Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.



No, it belongs to the federal government.  And you belong in Gitmo, incidentally.


----------



## Carla_Danger

bodecea said:


> Just checking in....I heard they all have Pink Eye now.




And one got his ranch hands/slaves/foster children yanked away, because doofus is too busy with his YeeHawdist pals to take care of them.


----------



## bodecea

Carla_Danger said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just checking in....I heard they all have Pink Eye now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one got his ranch hands/slaves/foster children yanked away, because doofus is too busy with his YeeHawdist pals to take care of them.
Click to expand...

Ooooooooo...link that story.


----------



## Carla_Danger

bodecea said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just checking in....I heard they all have Pink Eye now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one got his ranch hands/slaves/foster children yanked away, because doofus is too busy with his YeeHawdist pals to take care of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
Click to expand...



Okie doke, hang on.


----------



## Carla_Danger

bodecea said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just checking in....I heard they all have Pink Eye now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one got his ranch hands/slaves/foster children yanked away, because doofus is too busy with his YeeHawdist pals to take care of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
Click to expand...



Here ya go...

Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home


----------



## Carla_Danger

There goes his bread and butter and his ranch hand/slaves.

Maybe he'll have to get a real job.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.


It belongs to the people of the USA, you silly bitch.


----------



## Dot Com

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The feds have no authority over Federal land?
> 
> Says who? The constitution itself delegates the authority for establishing rules for Federal property to Congress.
Click to expand...

Yeah Allie  Sheesh!!!


----------



## Old Rocks

Carla_Danger said:


> There goes his bread and butter and his ranch hand/slaves.
> 
> Maybe he'll have to get a real job.


If he is one of the militants at the Refuge, he won't have to worry about that ranch for a long time.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people of the USA, you silly bitch.
Click to expand...

 No it doesn't, commie retard. It belongs to the people of Harney county. Feds don't have the authority to own land outside of art 1 section 8 clause 17. Entitlement junkies need to stay in their own counties and create their own refuges. The land in Harney county belongs to the people of Harney county, and nobody else.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> There goes his bread and butter and his ranch hand/slaves.
> 
> Maybe he'll have to get a real job.
> 
> 
> 
> If he is one of the militants at the Refuge, he won't have to worry about that ranch for a long time.
Click to expand...

Meh.


----------



## koshergrl

John Witzel - Frenchglen, Harney County, Oregon -Interview


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people of the USA, you silly bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it doesn't, commie retard. It belongs to the people of Harney county. Feds don't have the authority to own land outside of art 1 section 8 clause 17. Entitlement junkies need to stay in their own counties and create their own refuges. The land in Harney county belongs to the people of Harney county, and nobody else.
Click to expand...


Nope. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 says no such thing. Here's the clause:



> To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;



Please note the term 'other needful buildings. Remembering of course, that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> John Witzel - Frenchglen, Harney County, Oregon -Interview


And winds never change direction in that area? By burning that area out, the fire could not go back in that direction. Ever work a fire, Kosher?


----------



## Old Rocks

And the thread is not about the BLM fire fighting methods, it is about assholes trying to steal a common heritage at the Game Refuge. They used arms to take over a Federal installation. That alone marks them as felons. And once this is over, and they have served their terms, they can never own or carry a firearm again.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*LOL wing nut is crying that just because he is committing felonies and attacking the Government that the Government is taking his income...LOL who the hell left kids in the charge of this ridiculous loser bastard..........*

*Foster children removed from home of Oregon militant, says he's now lost his 'main source of income'*




By Jen Hayden
Monday Jan 18, 2016 · 10:01 PM EST
 




LaVoy "Blue Tarp" Finicum waiting for federal authorities at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge.

*Arizona rancher LaVoy Finicum told Oregon Public Broadcasting that his four current foster children have been removed while he's in Oregon:*


----------



## Old Rocks

He claims to be a rancher, but his main source of income in foster children? LOL. He is nothing but a hat.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*That self reliant "Rancher" makes no money from ranching he lives off Government handouts and wants free land from "we the People"...In other words he is a typical blow hard phony Right wing piece of trash*


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> And the thread is not about the BLM fire fighting methods, it is about assholes trying to steal a common heritage at the Game Refuge. They used arms to take over a Federal installation. That alone marks them as felons. And once this is over, and they have served their terms, they can never own or carry a firearm again.


One and the same, statist shill.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1545702702409144&id=100009082878142


----------



## bodecea

Carla_Danger said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just checking in....I heard they all have Pink Eye now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one got his ranch hands/slaves/foster children yanked away, because doofus is too busy with his YeeHawdist pals to take care of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
Click to expand...

Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.


----------



## Dot Com

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *That self reliant "Rancher" makes no money from ranching he lives off Government handouts and wants free land from "we the People"...In other words he is a typical blow hard phony Right wing piece of trash*


pretty much, yeah.


----------



## rcfieldz

This is gonna be must see tv.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people of the USA, you silly bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it doesn't, commie retard. It belongs to the people of Harney county. Feds don't have the authority to own land outside of art 1 section 8 clause 17. Entitlement junkies need to stay in their own counties and create their own refuges. The land in Harney county belongs to the people of Harney county, and nobody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 says no such thing. Here's the clause:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please note the term 'other needful buildings. Remembering of course, that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
Click to expand...


Lol...sin e when is a gift shop a needful building for the operation of govt? I'm sure the owners would be willing to allow a fish and game guy to maintain the gift shop


----------



## Carla_Danger

bodecea said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just checking in....I heard they all have Pink Eye now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one got his ranch hands/slaves/foster children yanked away, because doofus is too busy with his YeeHawdist pals to take care of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.
Click to expand...



Obviously, none of them have jobs.


----------



## bodecea

Carla_Danger said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just checking in....I heard they all have Pink Eye now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And one got his ranch hands/slaves/foster children yanked away, because doofus is too busy with his YeeHawdist pals to take care of them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, none of them have jobs.
Click to expand...

Well, they are welfare mooches.


----------



## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> And one got his ranch hands/slaves/foster children yanked away, because doofus is too busy with his YeeHawdist pals to take care of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, none of them have jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they are welfare mooches.
Click to expand...

I h8 these criminals now more than when they were merely squatting on federal lands. Now it comes out that they are also welfare mooches?


----------



## rcfieldz

bodecea said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> And one got his ranch hands/slaves/foster children yanked away, because doofus is too busy with his YeeHawdist pals to take care of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, none of them have jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they are welfare mooches.
Click to expand...

And I suppose your a CEO of a large corporation  who doesn't have time to hire people because you're on here...


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## Carla_Danger

bodecea said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> And one got his ranch hands/slaves/foster children yanked away, because doofus is too busy with his YeeHawdist pals to take care of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, none of them have jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they are welfare mooches.
Click to expand...




And now...







BURNS—Critics of Ammon Bundy and his followers occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge have launched a protest designed to line the pocketbooks of Bundy's opponents.
The campaign, founded by a pair of brothers from Oregon, is known asG.O.H.O.M.E, an acronym that stands for Getting the Occupiers of Historic Oregon Malheur Evicted.
Brothers Zach and Jake Klonoski launched the fundraiser Sunday. They hope to convince Bundy and crew to leave by collecting money for groups whose mission is antithetical to the occupiers' beliefs. Recipients of the donations include a gun control campaign, a group that supports the wildlife refuge the occupiers want to privatize, an organization that has labeled Bundy and company as extremists, and the Native American tribe whose members claim the refuge as their ancestral land.

The fundraising campaign will continue as long as the occupation does.

Full article @ 

[FONT=Benton Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Oregon brothers launch anti-Bundy fundraising campaign[/FONT]


----------



## Carla_Danger

rcfieldz said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, none of them have jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they are welfare mooches.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I suppose your a CEO of a large corporation  who doesn't have time to hire people because you're on here...
Click to expand...



I guess I can say the same about you, right moron?  lol


----------



## rcfieldz

The government needs to remove these people or block all exits and starve them out.


----------



## rcfieldz

The 17 year old girls who watch too much Criminal Minds on tv are here...


----------



## bodecea

Carla_Danger said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, none of them have jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they are welfare mooches.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BURNS—Critics of Ammon Bundy and his followers occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge have launched a protest designed to line the pocketbooks of Bundy's opponents.
> The campaign, founded by a pair of brothers from Oregon, is known asG.O.H.O.M.E, an acronym that stands for Getting the Occupiers of Historic Oregon Malheur Evicted.
> Brothers Zach and Jake Klonoski launched the fundraiser Sunday. They hope to convince Bundy and crew to leave by collecting money for groups whose mission is antithetical to the occupiers' beliefs. Recipients of the donations include a gun control campaign, a group that supports the wildlife refuge the occupiers want to privatize, an organization that has labeled Bundy and company as extremists, and the Native American tribe whose members claim the refuge as their ancestral land.
> 
> The fundraising campaign will continue as long as the occupation does.
> 
> Full article @
> 
> [FONT=Benton Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Oregon brothers launch anti-Bundy fundraising campaign[/FONT]
Click to expand...

I love the American Way.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, none of them have jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they are welfare mooches.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BURNS—Critics of Ammon Bundy and his followers occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge have launched a protest designed to line the pocketbooks of Bundy's opponents.
> The campaign, founded by a pair of brothers from Oregon, is known asG.O.H.O.M.E, an acronym that stands for Getting the Occupiers of Historic Oregon Malheur Evicted.
> Brothers Zach and Jake Klonoski launched the fundraiser Sunday. They hope to convince Bundy and crew to leave by collecting money for groups whose mission is antithetical to the occupiers' beliefs. Recipients of the donations include a gun control campaign, a group that supports the wildlife refuge the occupiers want to privatize, an organization that has labeled Bundy and company as extremists, and the Native American tribe whose members claim the refuge as their ancestral land.
> 
> The fundraising campaign will continue as long as the occupation does.
> 
> Full article @
> 
> [FONT=Benton Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Oregon brothers launch anti-Bundy fundraising campaign[/FONT]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love the American Way.
Click to expand...

 
No, you really don't.

The Oregon brothers aren't from there, I'm not even sure they're from Oregon, statist shill.


----------



## koshergrl

rcfieldz said:


> The government needs to remove these people or block all exits and starve them out.


 Lol...the exits are all over, they can't block all exits without dropping a net over them. And the local people are coming and going, bringing food to them, shuttling them around....

The people of Harney county are sick of the feds. They want them out.

Harney County school officials submit resignation letters


----------



## koshergrl

Lou Dobbs interviewed Susan Hammond who talked about the criminality of the feds but I only have it on my fb, haven't been able to find it on a public source yet.


----------



## koshergrl

The community was going to have a community meeting at the fairgrounds, and that asshate Grasty issued some sort of (illegal) edict stating that they couldn't use it.

The REASON the corrupt county officials are refusing to allow the community to meet is because they DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO HEAR THEM TALK. Because they ALL despise the feds, they are ALL fed up with the corrupt county officials, and they have no animosity towards the Bundys. They'd 100x rather have the bundys there than the feds.

The sheriff also issued a statement on his facebook telling all the residents to stop posting their opinions on social media, lol. So the result is the only people who are on the Harney county public venues are weirdoes posing as "Oregonians" but NONE of them local....


----------



## Dot Com

^ lots of "opinions" there


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## koshergrl

Dot Com said:


> ^ lots of "opinions" there


No, the sheriff really did tell them to stop using social media.

And locals told him he needed to get the hell out of dodge, incidentally.


----------



## Dot Com

hearsay


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## koshergrl

Dot Com said:


> hearsay


 ^^^Asshat


----------



## koshergrl

Zach and Jake Klonoski the ones claiming to have money for the tribe are the sons of the appellate judge in the Hammond case.


Carla_Danger said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooooooo...link that story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, none of them have jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they are welfare mooches.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BURNS—Critics of Ammon Bundy and his followers occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge have launched a protest designed to line the pocketbooks of Bundy's opponents.
> The campaign, founded by a pair of brothers from Oregon, is known asG.O.H.O.M.E, an acronym that stands for Getting the Occupiers of Historic Oregon Malheur Evicted.
> Brothers Zach and Jake Klonoski launched the fundraiser Sunday. They hope to convince Bundy and crew to leave by collecting money for groups whose mission is antithetical to the occupiers' beliefs. Recipients of the donations include a gun control campaign, a group that supports the wildlife refuge the occupiers want to privatize, an organization that has labeled Bundy and company as extremists, and the Native American tribe whose members claim the refuge as their ancestral land.
> 
> The fundraising campaign will continue as long as the occupation does.
> 
> Full article @
> 
> [FONT=Benton Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Oregon brothers launch anti-Bundy fundraising campaign[/FONT]
Click to expand...

 
"* Their mother — U.S. District Court Judge Ann Aiken in Eugene — is the jurist who last fall ordered Harney County ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond back to prison*, finding that they did not serve the minimum required sentences for arson convictions."


Well well, isn't that interesting.

They're from Eugene. Brothers from Eugene create fundraising website, vow to donate proceeds to groups abhorred by Malheur refuge militants | Local | Eugene, Oregon


----------



## Dot Com

ironic that they wouldn't survive w/o the USPS


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Zach and Jake Klonoski the ones claiming to have money for the tribe are the sons of the appellate judge in the Hammond case.
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go...
> 
> Militant LaVoy Finicum Says Foster Children Were Pulled From His Home
> 
> 
> 
> Wow...did you see how much he was getting paid BY THE GOVERNMENT for those children?   Talk about mooching off the government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, none of them have jobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, they are welfare mooches.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BURNS—Critics of Ammon Bundy and his followers occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge have launched a protest designed to line the pocketbooks of Bundy's opponents.
> The campaign, founded by a pair of brothers from Oregon, is known asG.O.H.O.M.E, an acronym that stands for Getting the Occupiers of Historic Oregon Malheur Evicted.
> Brothers Zach and Jake Klonoski launched the fundraiser Sunday. They hope to convince Bundy and crew to leave by collecting money for groups whose mission is antithetical to the occupiers' beliefs. Recipients of the donations include a gun control campaign, a group that supports the wildlife refuge the occupiers want to privatize, an organization that has labeled Bundy and company as extremists, and the Native American tribe whose members claim the refuge as their ancestral land.
> 
> The fundraising campaign will continue as long as the occupation does.
> 
> Full article @
> 
> [FONT=Benton Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Oregon brothers launch anti-Bundy fundraising campaign[/FONT]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "* Their mother — U.S. District Court Judge Ann Aiken in Eugene — is the jurist who last fall ordered Harney County ranchers Dwight and Steven Hammond back to prison*, finding that they did not serve the minimum required sentences for arson convictions."
> 
> 
> Well well, isn't that interesting.
> 
> They're from Eugene. Brothers from Eugene create fundraising website, vow to donate proceeds to groups abhorred by Malheur refuge militants | Local | Eugene, Oregon
Click to expand...




That was a good article.  We should all donate to the Klonoski's.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people of the USA, you silly bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it doesn't, commie retard. It belongs to the people of Harney county. Feds don't have the authority to own land outside of art 1 section 8 clause 17. Entitlement junkies need to stay in their own counties and create their own refuges. The land in Harney county belongs to the people of Harney county, and nobody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 says no such thing. Here's the clause:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please note the term 'other needful buildings. Remembering of course, that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol...sin e when is a gift shop a needful building for the operation of govt? I'm sure the owners would be willing to allow a fish and game guy to maintain the gift shop
Click to expand...

Laughing....so per your argument, the ONLY structure that the militia thugs can occupy is the 'gift shop'?


----------



## flacaltenn

*Moderation Message:

There's still a discussion here. But I got 20 posts marked for deletions.. 
Zone3 is NOT the place to discuss old drama at USMB or have long side discussions on members. 
Cut it out.. 

If y'all want to rehash good times -- take it to the FZone.. 
*


----------



## flacaltenn

bump.. re-opened.


----------



## bodecea

Interesting.


----------



## bodecea

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people of the USA, you silly bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it doesn't, commie retard. It belongs to the people of Harney county. Feds don't have the authority to own land outside of art 1 section 8 clause 17. Entitlement junkies need to stay in their own counties and create their own refuges. The land in Harney county belongs to the people of Harney county, and nobody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 says no such thing. Here's the clause:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please note the term 'other needful buildings. Remembering of course, that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol...sin e when is a gift shop a needful building for the operation of govt? I'm sure the owners would be willing to allow a fish and game guy to maintain the gift shop
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughing....so per your argument, the ONLY structure that the militia thugs can occupy is the 'gift shop'?
Click to expand...

It went from one abandoned building to.........


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn. The feds have no authority and neither does old fag. It's not your land. It belongs to the people of Harney county.
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people of the USA, you silly bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it doesn't, commie retard. It belongs to the people of Harney county. Feds don't have the authority to own land outside of art 1 section 8 clause 17. Entitlement junkies need to stay in their own counties and create their own refuges. The land in Harney county belongs to the people of Harney county, and nobody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 says no such thing. Here's the clause:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please note the term 'other needful buildings. Remembering of course, that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol...sin e when is a gift shop a needful building for the operation of govt? I'm sure the owners would be willing to allow a fish and game guy to maintain the gift shop
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughing....so per your argument, the ONLY structure that the militia thugs can occupy is the 'gift shop'?
Click to expand...

 I have no idea where you came up with that. No, per my argument nothing of the kind. You appear to be engaging in the sort of random.association trolling that bode is famous for..where you just say something completely unrelated to anything that has been said, and pretend it originated.somewhere outside of your own fogged brain. So again, no, that isn't an argument I made, and it doesn't follow anything I've said.


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## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> It belongs to the people of the USA, you silly bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> No it doesn't, commie retard. It belongs to the people of Harney county. Feds don't have the authority to own land outside of art 1 section 8 clause 17. Entitlement junkies need to stay in their own counties and create their own refuges. The land in Harney county belongs to the people of Harney county, and nobody else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 says no such thing. Here's the clause:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please note the term 'other needful buildings. Remembering of course, that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol...sin e when is a gift shop a needful building for the operation of govt? I'm sure the owners would be willing to allow a fish and game guy to maintain the gift shop
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Laughing....so per your argument, the ONLY structure that the militia thugs can occupy is the 'gift shop'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no idea where you came up with that. No, per my argument nothing of the kind.
Click to expand...


The militia is occupying the officers, occupying the maintenance garages (and stealing government vehicles), occupying the government records storage.  All 'necessary buildings'. 

So if those buildings would be covered by the constitution.....why, pray tell, are the militia occupying them?


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## koshergrl

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1689279827979934&id=1401869896720930


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## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1689279827979934&id=1401869896720930



Yeah, OPB has no record of that interview. Nor is it anywhere on the Oregon Republican Party website.

Search | Oregon Republican Party

The only place you'll find those quotes....is from 'Sputnik News'.



> Oregon Republicans will continue to endorse the Oregon militia’s conduct in seizing federal land in the state, Oregon Republican Party Chairman Bill Currier told Sputnik on Friday
> 
> Read more: Oregon Republicans Express Support for Militia's Actions


And what is Sputnik News?



> Sputnik is an international multimedia service launched on 10 November 2014 by Rossiya Segodnya, an agency wholly owned and operated by the Russian government, which was created by a Decree of the President of Russia on December 9, 2013.
> Sputnik (news agency) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Laughing....way to cite baseless Russian government propaganda, Comrade. 

You would be the proverbial 'useful idiot' in that regard.


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## koshergrl




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## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> hearsay
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^Asshat
Click to expand...

^^ASSCLOWN


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## Dot Com

These people need to be "put down" hard and fast. Play time is over

Oregon ranchers who sparked standoff threatened to wrap official’s son in barbed wire and drown him


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## Old Rocks

People in Burns want the assholes out of the Refuge, and out of the county.


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## Old Rocks

Standoff leader posted a video of him looking through artifacts and documents from the Paiute tribe at the Malheur national wildlife refuge, sparking outrage



 LaVoy Finicum posted a video of himself inside a government building looking through cardboard boxes of papers and other items associated with the Paiute tribe. Photograph: Rex/Shutterstock
The militiamen stationed at a federal wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon are now rummaging through artifacts and documents of the Paiute tribe, sparking outrage among local Native Americans whose ancestors originally occupied the land.
LaVoy Finicum, one of the leaders of the armed protesters occupying the Malheur national wildlife refuge, posted a video of himself inside a government building looking through cardboard boxes of papers and other items associated with the local tribe – and inviting Paiute leaders to meet with the militia and reclaim their belongings.
“We want to make sure these things are returned to their rightful owner,” said Finicum, who recently helped destroy a US Fish and Wildlife Service fence andremove cameras that he claimed the government was using for surveillance.





*The stories you need to read, in one handy email*

Read more​The rightwing militia, led by Ammon Bundy, took over the headquarters of the wildlifesanctuary on 2 January to protest the government’s land-use regulations in rural Harney County. They have demanded that local ranchers have control of public lands – not the federal government.

[FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web, Georgia, serif]Fresh outrage after militia seen rifling through tribal artifacts at Oregon refuge[/FONT]

More criminal behavior.


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## Old Rocks

But ol' Kosher still thinks that these are really nice people. The people in Burns and Harney County want them out, the people in Oregon want them out, and the citizens of the US want them out. And sane people want to see them spend a long time in the iron bar hotel.


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## koshergrl

Burns is where the corrupt officials dwell. It's full of maggot forest service and blm and county losers and their loser families....generally either on disability or otherwise dependent on govt. The refuge is 30 miles or maybe 40 from the city of Burns. it brings in about fifty birders a year. The people of burns are but a portion of Harney County and they are not the majority.

So the real meeting, that was supportive of the protest and thankful to the Bundys, met and talked with the Bundys. The group was cordial, and articulate, and engaged in a true heartfelt exchange of ideas and consideration of their options. Their bottom line is that they will not condemn the message the Bundys are sending because they agree. They won't condone the occupation because it isn't prudent to do so. But they want grasty and the Fed's out, and they want the Hammonds out. They are willing, perhaps, to tolerate a certain amt of governmental presence but they are going to continue their support of the protest...and perhaps escalate it....if the Hammond aren't returned home.

If the Hammonds had sold their land to the Feds...They would not be in jail. And there are thousands more stories like theirs.

Oh there were three hundred to, I guess 400 ppl at the community meeting....there were around aa200 at grastys pep rally....and of the two hundred (it didn't look like that many to me) at grastys meeting, maybe one hundred ...counting the county employees and forest service and refuge supporters, press, and law enforcement...were not in support of protest.


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## Old Rocks

Kosher, you are an asshole liar. And you blanket set of lies about the people in Burns and Harney County proves just what a liar you are. Now they are going through the Paiute artifacts, and will probably be trying to sell them, or use the destruction of those artifacts as a bargaining chip to try to avoid many years in a federal pen.


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## Old Rocks

Thousands of people every year visit the Malhuer Refuge. And many hunt there in the carefully controlled hunts for big game and certain waterfowl. Kosher doesn't know the Refuge, obviously doesn't know the people of Harney County.


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## Remodeling Maidiac

Anyone rescue the lawn furniture yet?


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## Old Rocks

Look, Gramps, we have enough trouble with the felons at the Refuge without bothering to answer those on this board.


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## Remodeling Maidiac

Old Rocks said:


> Look, Gramps, we have enough trouble with the felons at the Refuge without bothering to answer those on this board.


GO massage your pussy & shut up


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## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Thousands of people every year visit the Malhuer Refuge. And many hunt there in the carefully controlled hunts for big game and certain waterfowl. Kosher doesn't know the Refuge, obviously doesn't know the people of Harney County.


They hunted there before the refuge too, lol. And they still are. Urban commies should evict people from their suburbs and turn those places into wildlife refuges. That sounds like something you could get behind, flaphander. Then you wouldn't have to get all jumpy about being surrounded by real men who have a history and a culture tied into self sufficiency and.liberty.


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## Old Rocks

Self sufficiency? Lavon whining because the removed the four foster children from his home that were his only source of income? That is your definition of self sufficiency? Ammon has a half million dollar loan from the SBA that he will never pay back. And on and on. These are nothing but a bunch of hare brained stupes, waving guns, and mouthing utter drivel. Time to end it and  cart every adult there off for a long stay in the iron bar hotel.


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## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Kosher, you are an asshole liar. And you blanket set of lies about the people in Burns and Harney County proves just what a liar you are. Now they are going through the Paiute artifacts, and will probably be trying to sell them, or use the destruction of those artifacts as a bargaining chip to try to avoid many years in a federal pen.


No, I'm not a liar. You're the liar, as is patently obvious.

The protesters have invited tribal members and leaders to come out to the refuge and voice their concerns and access their artifacts. They've refused because they don't give a shit. And going through the tribal stuff isn't illegal what a load of horseshit lolol.what hell find is mismanagement and relocation I artifacts by the feds. That's what they do. Of course you object to any activity that reveals the truth of the situation. You're a lying government shill, commie. Crawl back under your rock, puke.


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## Old Rocks

Well, let's review what has been said on this thread. Kosher starts out claiming that almost everyone in Harney County supported the scuzzy bastards at the Refuge. But the meeting last Tuesday night laid that to rest. A resounding repudiation of the fruitloops. With the fruitloops sitting right there, looking like they were sucking on a lemon. 

So now Kosher is stating that the good people of Burns are all a bunch of freeloaders and commies. So she isn't for local control of the Refuge, because the locals have stated that they like it as it is. The Paiute are not going to dignify the claims of the locos at the Refuge. They also like the present arrangement. The people of Oregon want Bundy and his bunch out. Out by whatever means necessary now. 

Seems Kosher not only doesn't know the mind of the people in Eastern Oregon, she doesn't know the mind of the people of Oregon, period.


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## koshergrl

Notice that old fag doesn't actually identify the lies I have allegedly shared. Because he doesn't want me to continue to provide the (for him) painful evidence, yet again, that the narrative being pushed by the idiots clamoring to imprison brob and kill rural landowners is  the same systematic persecution that they waged against Indians. Old fag and those like him are th modern day equivalents of Americans who supported campaigns against Indians on the name of progress. He's the same as ignorant progressives who supported the transfer of property from Jews and their imprisonment if they refused to obey the state and turn over their holdings. Bigoted fascists don't change from century to century...they just target mew victims.


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## koshergrl

Grastys meeting didn't lay anything to rest, lol. The big  meeting before his meeting had more than twice as many people, and none of them called for the removal of protestors.
Or is presenting a false narrative based on nothing but county news releases and propaganda generated by federal mouthpieces. It's laughable.


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## koshergrl

And in grastys meeting, half were hostile to him and his show. The sheriff removed men who asked questions (show us where the feds have this authority primary among them). Btw grastys brother was also a blm official, and grasty himself belongs to multiple sage grouse protection committees and other conservation groups. Which is funny cuz all the grouse have fled the mismanaged public lands to reside on private lands.


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## koshergrl

Poor old fag, spinning and hysterically shrieking nonsense.


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## Old Rocks

OK, I presented videos from the Grasty meeting, why don't you present videos from that meeting.


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## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> OK, I presented videos from the Grasty meeting, why don't you present videos from that meeting.




Grasty the corrupt lunatic...End the BLM: GRASTY & THE GROUSE - Burns Sage-Grouse Local Implementation Team


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## koshergrl

grasty received funds for sage grouse program implementation, go figure.


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## koshergrl

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1689279827979934&id=1401869896720930
from the baker county press....


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## Camp

koshergrl said:


> And in grastys meeting, half were hostile to him and his show. The sheriff removed men who asked questions (show us where the feds have this authority primary among them). Btw grastys brother was also a blm official, and grasty himself belongs to multiple sage grouse protection committees and other conservation groups. Which is funny cuz all the grouse have fled the mismanaged public lands to reside on private lands.


Yesterday you said the refuge was only visited by 50 birders a year. That was in post #255. Other sources put the number of visitors at 65,000. When you make claims like that, it is difficult to take you serious or as credible.  Claiming in the above post that the grouse have fled the public lands to reside on private lands however puts you squarely into the nut job category.


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## koshergrl

BLM illegally sold thousands of wild horses for slaughter: report


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## Old Rocks

Hmmm............  Kosher, I presented the videos from the meeting that people can judge for themselves how that meeting went. All you have presented is flap yap.


koshergrl said:


> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1689279827979934&id=1401869896720930
> from the baker county press....


And this proves what?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1689279827979934&id=1401869896720930

*Patty Olson*

Has Burns been renamed Bundy Town? Just wondering because it seems the Bundy Clan and your Committee of Safety have many many plans for that public land that the Bundys believe they have control of. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/post.html
*Oregon standoff leader warns feds: Back off*

*Ammon Bundy, leader of the occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge,tells of creating 'rapid response teams' to defend locals for federal regulators.*
oregonlive.com ·
Hide · Wednesday at 5:32pm
*Patty Olson*

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/15/timber-oligarchs-transform-into-beef-barons-in-harney-county-and-the-oregon-high-desert/
*Timber Oligarchs Transform Into Beef Barons in Harney County and the Oregon High Desert*

*The addictive beauty of an ungrazed sagebrush expanse and big sky bordering Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Throughout the Ammon Bundy and militia thug seizure of Malheur National Wildlife Refuge…*
counterpunch.org ·
Hide · Wednesday at 7:33am
*James Ferndrick*

Why the hell do so many people support child abusers and arsonists and call them good people? Seems one of Stevie's best acolades is known for belt sanding a tattoo off of his nephews chest that takes two hands I would imagine as well, I am sure other family members were involved as well. Great people!
Hide · Wednesday at 11:44am
*Billie Jo Boothman*

So agreed, please, do some thing to get the justice system moving to get them home.


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## Camp

koshergrl said:


> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1689279827979934&id=1401869896720930
> from the baker county press....


Didn't someone show this to be an untraceable story that originated with the Russian government-owned paper Sputnik News? Untraceable of course means that there is no evidence the source ever made such a statement. It was a made up story from a Russian propaganda outlets and even after being inoformed ot that fact you continue to use it.


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## Old Rocks

Where is that video of that prior meeting, Kosher? You wouldn't be lying again, now would you? LOL


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## Old Rocks

Kosher, the thread is not about sage grouse or wild horses. It is about armed lunatics occupying public land, and the people of Harney County. Now, where are the videos of that prior meeting. Or did you just pull that whole claim out of your ass?


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## Camp

koshergrl said:


> BLM illegally sold thousands of wild horses for slaughter: report


Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Malheur or this topic.


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## Camp

cbsnews.com/news/oregon-standoff-leader-ammon-bundy-meets-with-fbi/
The meeting was not in person, it was conducted by phone. Bundy stayed in his truck outside of the FBI facility at the staging operation at the Burns airport.

talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/--100671 
The Governor has formally requested that the FBI and federal government remove the Bundy's and followers from the refuge. The letter is in this article.


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## 9thIDdoc

What?! The Public is on public land? Oh, the horror!


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## Old Rocks

Hey dumb fuck, why don't you just grab a rifle, go down to the courthouse, claim you are the public, and threaten to shoot anyone else that comes into the courthouse. See how long that lasts. The assholes occupying the Refuge are felons, and must see long terms in the federal pen.


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## 9thIDdoc

_ "The assholes occupying the Refuge are felons, and must see long terms in the federal pen."
_
Which assholes? The BLM or the militia? Does one have more permission from the public who own the land than the other?


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## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Burns is where the corrupt officials dwell. It's full of maggot forest service and blm and county losers and their loser families....generally either on disability or otherwise dependent on govt. The refuge is 30 miles or maybe 40 from the city of Burns. it brings in about fifty birders a year. The people of burns are but a portion of Harney County and they are not the majority.



Laughing.....but only a few days ago  you were lauding the folks of Burns as the 'locals'. And talking about how much they supported the militia. Now their 'corrupt' 'maggots'?

Do you understand WHY we keep telling you to abandon confirmation bias? Its not because we're trying to prove you wrong. Its because its an absolutely shit way of perceiving the world. As it offers you no insight, it helps you predict nothing.

Oh, and it has you quoting Russian Government propaganda as if it were true.


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## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> _ "The assholes occupying the Refuge are felons, and must see long terms in the federal pen."
> _
> Which assholes? The BLM or the militia? Does one have more permission from the public who own the land than the other?



Yes. The BLM is enacting the rules of Congress. Which is explicitly given authority by the Constitution to set rules for Federal property.

There's no angle where the Militia isn't spouting sovereign citizen horseshit. As this isn't a matter of State's Rights. The Governor of Oregon has already asked them to leave and they told her to go fuck herself. This isn't a matter of the constitution. As it explicitly grants the Congress authority to set these rules. This isn't a matter of due process, as the Hammonds most definitely had their day in court. This isn't a matter of redress of grievances, as the Hammonds and even the militia have had every right to bring their complaints to court without retaliation.

And now the final lie in the fringe right militia is playing out. Their call for 'local control'. The mayor and sheriff of Burns have asked them to leave. And they've told both to fuck themselves, even trying to intimidate people in the nearby town by following them and their families.

There is only one law among the militia: themselves. *Not the State, not the local government, n ot the constitution. Just the Militia men citing themselves. *They've already demonstrated the lie to all their empty rhetoric about 'state' and 'local' control.


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## Wry Catcher

9thIDdoc said:


> _ "The assholes occupying the Refuge are felons, and must see long terms in the federal pen."
> _
> Which assholes? The BLM or the militia? Does one have more permission from the public who own the land than the other?



The BLM are us, they represent We The People who elected those whose legislation created the BLM.  Don't like it, vote for the Anarchy Party or, the next best thing the Libertarian Party, or  worse the Republcan Party who will sell the land and include the wealth it holds to the private sector which will exploit its value and leave the mess to We The People to clean up.


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## Skylar

Wry Catcher said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _ "The assholes occupying the Refuge are felons, and must see long terms in the federal pen."
> _
> Which assholes? The BLM or the militia? Does one have more permission from the public who own the land than the other?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The BLM are us, they represent We The People who elected those whose legislation created the BLM.  Don't like it, vote for the Anarchy Party or, the next best thing the Libertarian Party, or  worse the Republcan Party who will sell the land and include the wealth it holds to the private sector which will exploit its value and leave the mess to We The People to clean up.
Click to expand...


And much of Ammon's ilk are Sovereign Citizen adherents. Who believe that every citizen is a sovereign. And thus can't be compelled by any law. As they themselves are the law. 

Which is why the militia have no problem whatsoever using guns to seize land and make up their own law when they do it. 

Its when they start spouting horseshit about 'state' and 'local' control that they demonstrate their own flaming hypocrisy. As the only control they want is themselves. The only state they recognize is themselves.


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## Wry Catcher

Skylar said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _ "The assholes occupying the Refuge are felons, and must see long terms in the federal pen."
> _
> Which assholes? The BLM or the militia? Does one have more permission from the public who own the land than the other?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The BLM are us, they represent We The People who elected those whose legislation created the BLM.  Don't like it, vote for the Anarchy Party or, the next best thing the Libertarian Party, or  worse the Republcan Party who will sell the land and include the wealth it holds to the private sector which will exploit its value and leave the mess to We The People to clean up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And much of Ammon's ilk are Sovereign Citizen adherents. Who believe that every citizen is a sovereign. And thus can't be compelled by any law. As they themselves are the law.
> 
> Which is why the militia have no problem whatsoever using guns to seize land and make up their own law when they do it.
> 
> Its when they start spouting horseshit about 'state' and 'local' control that they demonstrate their own flaming hypocrisy. As the only control they want is themselves. The only state they recognize is themselves.
Click to expand...


Sovereign Citizens, IMO, are members of the Idiot-fringe. "Freedom's just another word for nothin' else to lose"; those who can hang out for weeks on end must have no family, no kids, no job or other responsibilities.


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## Skylar

Wry Catcher said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _ "The assholes occupying the Refuge are felons, and must see long terms in the federal pen."
> _
> Which assholes? The BLM or the militia? Does one have more permission from the public who own the land than the other?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The BLM are us, they represent We The People who elected those whose legislation created the BLM.  Don't like it, vote for the Anarchy Party or, the next best thing the Libertarian Party, or  worse the Republcan Party who will sell the land and include the wealth it holds to the private sector which will exploit its value and leave the mess to We The People to clean up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And much of Ammon's ilk are Sovereign Citizen adherents. Who believe that every citizen is a sovereign. And thus can't be compelled by any law. As they themselves are the law.
> 
> Which is why the militia have no problem whatsoever using guns to seize land and make up their own law when they do it.
> 
> Its when they start spouting horseshit about 'state' and 'local' control that they demonstrate their own flaming hypocrisy. As the only control they want is themselves. The only state they recognize is themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sovereign Citizens, IMO, are members of the Idiot-fringe. "Freedom's just another word for nothin' else to lose"; those who can hang out for weeks on end must have no family, no kids, no job or other responsibilities.
Click to expand...


I agree. Idiot fringe. And much of Ammon's ilk, in fact the very premise of Ammon's argument....is exactly that idiocy.


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## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Kosher, the thread is not about sage grouse or wild horses. It is about armed lunatics occupying public land, and the people of Harney County. Now, where are the videos of that prior meeting. Or did you just pull that whole claim out of your ass?


 
Actually, it's about the federal mismanagement of public lands allegedly for the sake of protecting native, endangered bird species and protecting others. Every time you run up against an incontrovertible truth, you pretend that the subject is "something else" lol.

Meanwhile, the protesters have put out multiple requests to the tribe to come in and check out their stuff (since lunatics like you keep whining that they're being "vandalized" or "not protected" by the protesters). In the course of fixing buildings and cleaning up the property, which belongs not to the feds, but to the people of Harney county, they found that buildings were left open to the elements, were in varying degrees of dilapidation and disuse and rodent infestation.

They found the so-called Indian "artifacts" stuffed into carboard boxes, in a deserted, unheated building, damaged by rodents. This didn't happen in the last couple of weeks. They have put out multiple requests to the tribe to come and get their stuff and take it and do whatever they want with it.

Bundy Ranch | Facebook


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## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher, the thread is not about sage grouse or wild horses. It is about armed lunatics occupying public land, and the people of Harney County. Now, where are the videos of that prior meeting. Or did you just pull that whole claim out of your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's about the federal mismanagement of public lands allegedly for the sake of protecting native, endangered bird species and protecting others. Every time you run up against an incontrovertible truth, you pretend that the subject is "something else" lol.
> 
> Meanwhile, the protesters have put out multiple requests to the tribe to come in and check out their stuff (since lunatics like you keep whining that they're being "vandalized" or "not protected" by the protesters).
Click to expand...


The folks insisting that the militia is 'desecrating' the site....is the very tribes in question. Are you going to add them to the 'corrupt maggot' list like you did the town of Burns, its people, mayor and sheriff?

Like any good batshit conspiracy, anyone who doesn't ape the conspiracy....becomes part of it. 


> In the course of fixing buildings and cleaning up the property, which belongs not to the feds, but to the people of Harney county, they found that buildings were left open to the elements, were in varying degrees of dilapidation and disuse and rodent infestation.



So you say. But when we ask you to show us evidence......the 'videos' you told us about, you've got nothing. You're literally making this shit up as you go along. 

Ah, wait. When I asked you to back your claim, you quoted Russian Government propaganda. 'Sputnik News' claiming to speak for the chairman of the Republican party in Oregon.


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## koshergrl

"Did you know that Ammon Bundy walked up the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, opened the door and walked in? It is a facility that is typically vacant all winter. He went in with friends and they stated they would occupy the facility until the Hammonds are released from prison and these public resources are managed by local control. They also stated, “If anyone comes to remove us, we will exercise our Second Amendment rights.” Folks, it was five days until the local sheriff returned Ammon Bundy’s call, and the feds have yet to reach out to seek a resolution, so what is the real agenda of the “lawmen”?
"The town of Burns is obviously on edge but you need to know that the Bundy occupation is 30 miles from town. Instead of setting up headquarters in the multiple federal buildings outside of town, the FBI shut down the school, built a barricade around it and closed off several streets so they could hunker down there.
"What I have personally witnessed on this trip is the worst side of our federal government that I could have ever imagined. Additionally, I am writing this because within days of reading this, thousands of the best cattlemen and cattlewomen will be gathering in San Diego, California, for the Cattle Industry Convention.
"If this violation of basic American rights as food producers does not become the most discussed and most important issue of that gathering, then I suggest the next takeover will not be of federal property, but rather of an organization that has completely lost touch with what is most important to its members. If we can’t take a stand for each other, then what good is this organization?
"Finally, I have received hundreds of inquiries in the past month from people who do actually want to do something. I realize that every person in every state has an issue that is top of mind as we all start our new legislative sessions, but I contend that what is currently happening in Harney County, Oregon, is happening in your state, too, and we need to get it fixed and retake state and local control.
"While you can contribute to the Hammond family and their ongoing legal fees if you desire, Susie agrees with me that the best answer is contact anybody and everybody who will listen, from county supervisors to U.S. senators, and make sure they understand what happened to the Hammonds and don’t let up until those ranchers are returned home from federal prison."

Return Hammonds to ranch


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Hey dumb fuck, why don't you just grab a rifle, go down to the courthouse, claim you are the public, and threaten to shoot anyone else that comes into the courthouse. See how long that lasts. The assholes occupying the Refuge are felons, and must see long terms in the federal pen.


I think you should grab a rifle, go down to the refuge..or really, anywhere in Harney county where you find supporters, and threaten to shoot anybody that dares to support the Bundys. See how long THAT will last. Because so far, you nuts are the only ones threatening harm. The Bundys just asserted their intent to stay in a public building until the locals are ready to take it over.

They have made the facility open to ANYBODY who wishes to come and view it. They have met with locals, with visitors, and the press, and given them tours (the press doesn't publish these because what they see doesn't jibe with the narrative they are putting out there).

They have worked hard to restore and repair buildings. They found the Indian artifacts that everybody is squawking about that are supposedly so carefully cared for by the feds. These so called artifacts are stuffed in cardboard boxes, thrown on the floor, and damaged by rodents, covered with rat shit and piss, with nests in them, in unoccupied buildings that were left open to the elements when the protesters arrived. They have repeatedly put out public and private invitations to the tribe to come and help them find and repossess those artifacts, so the Indians can care for them themselves or help establish some sort of protocol for protecting them and/or displaying them.  The tribes are always pissing and moaning that the feds *take* their artificacts. Now they have an opportunity to retrieve them, or at least care for them, or at the very least, VIEW them and ascertain their condition and location...the tribe refuses to. And just to clarify...the refuge is chock full of artificats. People who visit the refuge to tromp all over the place in search of the birds that have largely migrated to neighboring private properties due to the fires and bad management practices of the feds, are constantly destroying, stealing, and uncovering these precious "artifacts". There are lots and lots of them there, to the extent that really, they aren't considered all that precious by the feds or even by the Indians who claim they're so important. If they were, they would be there now taking care of them. But that doesn't pay as well as going around the state on the dime of the Oregonian, demanding the return of the artifacts to the Indians (they've already been offered back to the Indians) or the removal of the protesters...who they have never spoken with.

The protesters have likewise  repeatedly reached out to law enforcement and the FBI in order to discuss the issues and to allow them to work out a solution. The FBI only yesterday agreed to meet with them and talk with them, and the discussion went really well. I'm not sure it even got a mention in the Oregonian. It took the Sheriff's office five days to return calls from the protesters when they first arrived. They wouldn't even attempt to engage in a dialogue with them, they were too busy telling lies about the situation out there, I suppose.


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> Burns is where the corrupt officials dwell. It's full of maggot forest service and blm and county losers and their loser families....generally either on disability or otherwise dependent on govt. The refuge is 30 miles or maybe 40 from the city of Burns. it brings in about fifty birders a year. The people of burns are but a portion of Harney County and they are not the majority.
> 
> So the real meeting, that was supportive of the protest and thankful to the Bundys, met and talked with the Bundys. The group was cordial, and articulate, and engaged in a true heartfelt exchange of ideas and consideration of their options. Their bottom line is that they will not condemn the message the Bundys are sending because they agree. They won't condone the occupation because it isn't prudent to do so. But they want grasty and the Fed's out, and they want the Hammonds out. They are willing, perhaps, to tolerate a certain amt of governmental presence but they are going to continue their support of the protest...and perhaps escalate it....if the Hammond aren't returned home.
> 
> If the Hammonds had sold their land to the Feds...They would not be in jail. And there are thousands more stories like theirs.
> 
> Oh there were three hundred to, I guess 400 ppl at the community meeting....there were around aa200 at grastys pep rally....and of the two hundred (it didn't look like that many to me) at grastys meeting, maybe one hundred ...counting the county employees and forest service and refuge supporters, press, and law enforcement...were not in support of protest.


Broad brush much lolibertarian girl?

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk


----------



## koshergrl

The only threats of violence have come from the press and the yahoos like Old Fag, who aren't from the area, but think it's cool to call for violence against the protesters, and the imprisonment of the residents of Harney County if they dare object to the appalling practices of the feds, and the rampant corruption of the officials from the top federal level, down to the local county level.

The people that Old Fag listens to are those corrupt officials, who have been caught posting lie, after lie, after lie, and who have been exposed repeatedly as personally benefiting from the incestuous and corrupt nature of the network of federal and county officials. Old Fag is a communist, as we all know who have dealt with him on here, and his only interest is in destroying the independent land owners and wresting the land away from them, in order to establish complete and total government control over every inch of land and property. His motivations are many and rooted in his own psychosis, but first among them is his greedy nature and his stupid belief that if the government steals property then he's going to have full and unfettered access to it, to use as he pleases. As he pleases means he wants to camp out there a couple of times a year, so he can tell what few friends he has that he's an "outdoorsman" with ties to the area. It's all a load of horseshit.

The refuge standoff isn't going to end like Waco. Everybody knows that these people are peaceful. More and more people are arriving in order to support them, Bundy moves about at will in the community, and the community protects him. People are coming and going as they please at the refuge, they can look around as they please, the refuge is still open. Nobody is destroying any property...dozens and dozens of people have testified to that. The first people that went out there said it looked better than they'd EVER seen it. Bundy repeatedly states his purpose is solely to protest and to remain until the issue is resolved, the Hammonds are relased, and the people of the county are on their way to resolving the MYRIAD issues they have with the feds who are illegally persecuting them.

And the Harney County locals are working hard to accomplish that. They are developing a plan and working CLOSELY with Bundy to resolve the issue peacefully and to their satisfaction, while at the same time they are continuing to petition for the release of the Hammonds. They want the Hammonds out of prison, and they won't quit until they're released. Once the Hammonds are released and they figure out how they're going to manage the refuge themselves, they'll escort Bundy out.

Not until then. Lunatics like Old Fag are in for a wait. Maybe he should create a refuge in his own berg, and clear out the residents, burn down the buildings, and plant a couple of tomato plants and release a couple of parakeets or something.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher, the thread is not about sage grouse or wild horses. It is about armed lunatics occupying public land, and the people of Harney County. Now, where are the videos of that prior meeting. Or did you just pull that whole claim out of your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's about the federal mismanagement of public lands allegedly for the sake of protecting native, endangered bird species and protecting others. Every time you run up against an incontrovertible truth, you pretend that the subject is "something else" lol.
> 
> Meanwhile, the protesters have put out multiple requests to the tribe to come in and check out their stuff (since lunatics like you keep whining that they're being "vandalized" or "not protected" by the protesters).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The folks insisting that the militia is 'desecrating' the site....is the very tribes in question. Are you going to add them to the 'corrupt maggot' list like you did the town of Burns, its people, mayor and sheriff?
> 
> Like any good batshit conspiracy, anyone who doesn't ape the conspiracy....becomes part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> In the course of fixing buildings and cleaning up the property, which belongs not to the feds, but to the people of Harney county, they found that buildings were left open to the elements, were in varying degrees of dilapidation and disuse and rodent infestation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you say. But when we ask you to show us evidence......the 'videos' you told us about, you've got nothing. You're literally making this shit up as you go along.
> 
> Ah, wait. When I asked you to back your claim, you quoted Russian Government propaganda. 'Sputnik News' claiming to speak for the chairman of the Republican party in Oregon.
Click to expand...

 
The tribes refuse to actually go out to the site to protect/identify/or even verify that the artificats are indeed being *desecrated*, lol.

Yeah, they care a lot.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher, the thread is not about sage grouse or wild horses. It is about armed lunatics occupying public land, and the people of Harney County. Now, where are the videos of that prior meeting. Or did you just pull that whole claim out of your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's about the federal mismanagement of public lands allegedly for the sake of protecting native, endangered bird species and protecting others. Every time you run up against an incontrovertible truth, you pretend that the subject is "something else" lol.
> 
> Meanwhile, the protesters have put out multiple requests to the tribe to come in and check out their stuff (since lunatics like you keep whining that they're being "vandalized" or "not protected" by the protesters).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The folks insisting that the militia is 'desecrating' the site....is the very tribes in question. Are you going to add them to the 'corrupt maggot' list like you did the town of Burns, its people, mayor and sheriff?
> 
> Like any good batshit conspiracy, anyone who doesn't ape the conspiracy....becomes part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> In the course of fixing buildings and cleaning up the property, which belongs not to the feds, but to the people of Harney county, they found that buildings were left open to the elements, were in varying degrees of dilapidation and disuse and rodent infestation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you say. But when we ask you to show us evidence......the 'videos' you told us about, you've got nothing. You're literally making this shit up as you go along.
> 
> Ah, wait. When I asked you to back your claim, you quoted Russian Government propaganda. 'Sputnik News' claiming to speak for the chairman of the Republican party in Oregon.
Click to expand...

 

Actually, the chairman of the Republican party posted it on their facebook site. Because I was signed in, I went off facebook in order to find another generic source because I don't want that retard Old Fag showing up at my house or harassing my friends.


----------



## koshergrl

Other people who are propagating my facebook friends list....multiple Harney County ranchers and locals, including the ones who organized and hosted the groups that met (and weren't covered by the press) prior to Grasty's pretend community meeting.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher, the thread is not about sage grouse or wild horses. It is about armed lunatics occupying public land, and the people of Harney County. Now, where are the videos of that prior meeting. Or did you just pull that whole claim out of your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's about the federal mismanagement of public lands allegedly for the sake of protecting native, endangered bird species and protecting others. Every time you run up against an incontrovertible truth, you pretend that the subject is "something else" lol.
> 
> Meanwhile, the protesters have put out multiple requests to the tribe to come in and check out their stuff (since lunatics like you keep whining that they're being "vandalized" or "not protected" by the protesters).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The folks insisting that the militia is 'desecrating' the site....is the very tribes in question. Are you going to add them to the 'corrupt maggot' list like you did the town of Burns, its people, mayor and sheriff?
> 
> Like any good batshit conspiracy, anyone who doesn't ape the conspiracy....becomes part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> In the course of fixing buildings and cleaning up the property, which belongs not to the feds, but to the people of Harney county, they found that buildings were left open to the elements, were in varying degrees of dilapidation and disuse and rodent infestation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you say. But when we ask you to show us evidence......the 'videos' you told us about, you've got nothing. You're literally making this shit up as you go along.
> 
> Ah, wait. When I asked you to back your claim, you quoted Russian Government propaganda. 'Sputnik News' claiming to speak for the chairman of the Republican party in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tribes refuse to actually go out to the site to protect/identify/or even verify that the artificats are indeed being *desecrated*, lol.
> 
> Yeah, they care a lot.
Click to expand...


The tribes have demanded that the militia leave and insisted that the militia is desecrating their lands. 

So the militia does to the tribes what it did to the Mayor of Burns, the majority of the folks in Burns, the Sheriff, and the Govenor of Oregon:

And told them to go fuck themselves.

So much for the militia lie of 'local' and 'state' control. The only authority that the militia recognizes is their own.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Other people who are propagating my facebook friends list....multiple Harney County ranchers and locals, including the ones who organized and hosted the groups that met (and weren't covered by the press) prior to Grasty's pretend community meeting.



Is this the same face book list where you cited Russian government propaganda, comrade?


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Other people who are propagating my facebook friends list....multiple Harney County ranchers and locals, including the ones who organized and hosted the groups that met (and weren't covered by the press) prior to Grasty's pretend community meeting.


As much as you disagree with the concept of elected officials speaking for citizens, it still works that way in America. Facebook comments, random opinions, Russian editorials or news stories, and agenda driven bloggers, are not viewed as official voices and spokespersons for the citizens. What they say has no legal standing or authority. It is just nonsense, opinions, misinformation, etc. with no special or privileged  value.


----------



## koshergrl

Free the Hammonds

Listen to Erin Maupin, and the reaction of the people in the Burns audience. This is what the Oregonian doesn't show. They show grasty up there posturing and his friends and family, but they don't show the rest.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher, the thread is not about sage grouse or wild horses. It is about armed lunatics occupying public land, and the people of Harney County. Now, where are the videos of that prior meeting. Or did you just pull that whole claim out of your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's about the federal mismanagement of public lands allegedly for the sake of protecting native, endangered bird species and protecting others. Every time you run up against an incontrovertible truth, you pretend that the subject is "something else" lol.
> 
> Meanwhile, the protesters have put out multiple requests to the tribe to come in and check out their stuff (since lunatics like you keep whining that they're being "vandalized" or "not protected" by the protesters).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The folks insisting that the militia is 'desecrating' the site....is the very tribes in question. Are you going to add them to the 'corrupt maggot' list like you did the town of Burns, its people, mayor and sheriff?
> 
> Like any good batshit conspiracy, anyone who doesn't ape the conspiracy....becomes part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> In the course of fixing buildings and cleaning up the property, which belongs not to the feds, but to the people of Harney county, they found that buildings were left open to the elements, were in varying degrees of dilapidation and disuse and rodent infestation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you say. But when we ask you to show us evidence......the 'videos' you told us about, you've got nothing. You're literally making this shit up as you go along.
> 
> Ah, wait. When I asked you to back your claim, you quoted Russian Government propaganda. 'Sputnik News' claiming to speak for the chairman of the Republican party in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tribes refuse to actually go out to the site to protect/identify/or even verify that the artificats are indeed being *desecrated*, lol.
> 
> Yeah, they care a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tribes have demanded that the militia leave and insisted that the militia is desecrating their lands.
> 
> So the militia does to the tribes what it did to the Mayor of Burns, the majority of the folks in Burns, the Sheriff, and the Govenor of Oregon:
> 
> And told them to go fuck themselves.
> 
> So much for the militia lie of 'local' and 'state' control. The only authority that the militia recognizes is their own.
Click to expand...

 

"The tribes" however refuse to actually go to the site and observe their relics, lol.

Obviously, they care a lot.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher, the thread is not about sage grouse or wild horses. It is about armed lunatics occupying public land, and the people of Harney County. Now, where are the videos of that prior meeting. Or did you just pull that whole claim out of your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's about the federal mismanagement of public lands allegedly for the sake of protecting native, endangered bird species and protecting others. Every time you run up against an incontrovertible truth, you pretend that the subject is "something else" lol.
> 
> Meanwhile, the protesters have put out multiple requests to the tribe to come in and check out their stuff (since lunatics like you keep whining that they're being "vandalized" or "not protected" by the protesters).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The folks insisting that the militia is 'desecrating' the site....is the very tribes in question. Are you going to add them to the 'corrupt maggot' list like you did the town of Burns, its people, mayor and sheriff?
> 
> Like any good batshit conspiracy, anyone who doesn't ape the conspiracy....becomes part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> In the course of fixing buildings and cleaning up the property, which belongs not to the feds, but to the people of Harney county, they found that buildings were left open to the elements, were in varying degrees of dilapidation and disuse and rodent infestation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you say. But when we ask you to show us evidence......the 'videos' you told us about, you've got nothing. You're literally making this shit up as you go along.
> 
> Ah, wait. When I asked you to back your claim, you quoted Russian Government propaganda. 'Sputnik News' claiming to speak for the chairman of the Republican party in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tribes refuse to actually go out to the site to protect/identify/or even verify that the artificats are indeed being *desecrated*, lol.
> 
> Yeah, they care a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tribes have demanded that the militia leave and insisted that the militia is desecrating their lands.
> 
> So the militia does to the tribes what it did to the Mayor of Burns, the majority of the folks in Burns, the Sheriff, and the Govenor of Oregon:
> 
> And told them to go fuck themselves.
> 
> So much for the militia lie of 'local' and 'state' control. The only authority that the militia recognizes is their own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "The tribes" however refuse to actually go to the site and observe their relics, lol.
> 
> Obviously, they care a lot.
Click to expand...


They care enough to ask the Ammon Militia to leave and quit desecreating their land. And the Ammon Militia clearly doesn't give a shit what the tribes have to say.

Or the local sherriff.

Or the local mayor.

Or the governor of Oregon.

So much about their horseshit lip service to 'local' and 'state' control. Even Ammon's church has told him he needs to go home. They only authority Ammon recognizes....is Ammon.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Notice that old fag doesn't actually identify the lies I have allegedly shared. Because he doesn't want me to continue to provide the (for him) painful evidence, yet again, that the narrative being pushed by the idiots clamoring to imprison brob and kill rural landowners is  the same systematic persecution that they waged against Indians. Old fag and those like him are th modern day equivalents of Americans who supported campaigns against Indians on the name of progress. He's the same as ignorant progressives who supported the transfer of property from Jews and their imprisonment if they refused to obey the state and turn over their holdings. Bigoted fascists don't change from century to century...they just target mew victims.


We're all laughing at your pretend in-the-know comments, Allie.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Poor old fag, spinning and hysterically shrieking nonsense.


^I expect you would know yourself better than anyone else, Allie.


----------



## Arianrhod

koshergrl said:


> Free the Hammonds
> 
> Listen to Erin Maupin, and the reaction of the people in the Burns audience. This is what the Oregonian doesn't show. They show grasty up there posturing and his friends and family, but they don't show the rest.



Why aren't you onsite lending "assistance"?  If you're so passionate about these poor martyred souls, maybe you could go for snacks.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> What?! The Public is on public land? Oh, the horror!


That's not the problem...its when they are not allowing the rest of the public to use that public land.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher, the thread is not about sage grouse or wild horses. It is about armed lunatics occupying public land, and the people of Harney County. Now, where are the videos of that prior meeting. Or did you just pull that whole claim out of your ass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's about the federal mismanagement of public lands allegedly for the sake of protecting native, endangered bird species and protecting others. Every time you run up against an incontrovertible truth, you pretend that the subject is "something else" lol.
> 
> Meanwhile, the protesters have put out multiple requests to the tribe to come in and check out their stuff (since lunatics like you keep whining that they're being "vandalized" or "not protected" by the protesters).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The folks insisting that the militia is 'desecrating' the site....is the very tribes in question. Are you going to add them to the 'corrupt maggot' list like you did the town of Burns, its people, mayor and sheriff?
> 
> Like any good batshit conspiracy, anyone who doesn't ape the conspiracy....becomes part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> In the course of fixing buildings and cleaning up the property, which belongs not to the feds, but to the people of Harney county, they found that buildings were left open to the elements, were in varying degrees of dilapidation and disuse and rodent infestation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you say. But when we ask you to show us evidence......the 'videos' you told us about, you've got nothing. You're literally making this shit up as you go along.
> 
> Ah, wait. When I asked you to back your claim, you quoted Russian Government propaganda. 'Sputnik News' claiming to speak for the chairman of the Republican party in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tribes refuse to actually go out to the site to protect/identify/or even verify that the artificats are indeed being *desecrated*, lol.
> 
> Yeah, they care a lot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The tribes have demanded that the militia leave and insisted that the militia is desecrating their lands.
> 
> So the militia does to the tribes what it did to the Mayor of Burns, the majority of the folks in Burns, the Sheriff, and the Govenor of Oregon:
> 
> And told them to go fuck themselves.
> 
> So much for the militia lie of 'local' and 'state' control. The only authority that the militia recognizes is their own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "The tribes" however refuse to actually go to the site and observe their relics, lol.
> 
> Obviously, they care a lot.
Click to expand...

Those native American Paiutes know that the criminals at the refuge have absolutely no authority or recognition that allows them to discuss or have anything to do with the relics or the refuge. If they have anything to discuss they know it is not with out of state unelected criminals who have no professional knowledge or training about relics and how they need to be stored or handled.


----------



## Skylar

Arianrhod said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Free the Hammonds
> 
> Listen to Erin Maupin, and the reaction of the people in the Burns audience. This is what the Oregonian doesn't show. They show grasty up there posturing and his friends and family, but they don't show the rest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't you onsite lending "assistance"?  If you're so passionate about these poor martyred souls, maybe you could go for snacks.
Click to expand...


I suspect she's too busy searching for the youtube videos of 'rat infested and abandoned buildings' she made up.


----------



## Dot Com

Old Rocks said:


> Self sufficiency? Lavon whining because the removed the four foster children from his home that were his only source of income? That is your definition of self sufficiency? Ammon has a half million dollar loan from the SBA that he will never pay back. And on and on. These are nothing but a bunch of hare brained stupes, waving guns, and mouthing utter drivel. Time to end it and  cart every adult there off for a long stay in the iron bar hotel.


^ that


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kosher, you are an asshole liar. And you blanket set of lies about the people in Burns and Harney County proves just what a liar you are. Now they are going through the Paiute artifacts, and will probably be trying to sell them, or use the destruction of those artifacts as a bargaining chip to try to avoid many years in a federal pen.
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'm not a liar. You're the liar, as is patently obvious.
> 
> The protesters have invited tribal members and leaders to come out to the refuge and voice their concerns and access their artifacts. They've refused because they don't give a shit. And going through the tribal stuff isn't illegal what a load of horseshit lolol.what hell find is mismanagement and relocation I artifacts by the feds. That's what they do. Of course you object to any activity that reveals the truth of the situation. You're a lying government shill, commie. Crawl back under your rock, puke.
Click to expand...

Maybe not illegal, just "ham-handed" like your broad-brush posts  Sacrilegious as well.


----------



## koshergrl

The protesters have continually asserted that they want to meet with the fbi, that they will come to any meeting. But the fbi, via grasty and the corrupt officials, has made it almost impossible for this to happen. Finally Bundy received a telephone call from an fbi negotiator yesterday, I think. Until then, nobody from the blm, fish and game, the fbi..NONE of them have met with him. The Sheriff met with him, but had no interest in talking about anything except telling him to leave.

The negotiator said they would continue to speak at a personal meeting today, so Bundy agreed..provided the meeting took place in front of the media. The FBI declined.

Imgine that.

The refusal to meet in front of medial is two fold..#1....they don't want the media to record them behaving the way they behave. And #2, the feds don't want to answer the questions that are being asked, by the people and by Bundy...WHO GAVE YOU THE AUTHORITY TO TELL US WHAT TO DO WITH OUR LAND? WHO GAVE GAVE YOU THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THE POLICIES THAT RESULT IN VIOLATIONS THAT YOU USE TO JUSTIFY DECADES OF PERSECUTION, CITATIONS, FINES, AND IMPRISONMENT OF LANDOWNERS? And why are our elected officials not protecting the people who they are SWORN to defend, acting against their interest with people who are persecuting them?

The feds have NO AUTHORITY in Harney County. THAT is why they aren't sending in swat teams and bombs and whatever else they do. That is why they don't arrest Bundy when he's moving around. Because they don't have the authority or the right to do so. It is solely the right and authority of the local Sheriff, and HE hasn't done it because he CAN'T, unless they commit a crime. And so far, they haven't.

The only person who committed a crime was the guy from out of the state, who was driving a vehicle with switched plates, and his has been the only arrest.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

CREDIT: AP Images/Manuel Valdes
FILE - In this Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2016, file photo,* members of the Burns Paiute tribe watch a news conference held by their leaders in response to the armed occupation of the nearby Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns, Ore. A leader of the Oregon Indian tribe whose ancestral property is being occupied by an armed group opposed to federal land policy said Wednesday that the group is not welcome and needs to leave.* (AP Photo/Manuel Valdes, File)

Bundy Militia Post Video Of Themselves Messing With Native American Artifacts


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> OK, I presented videos from the Grasty meeting, why don't you present videos from that meeting.



Try this one, the whole meeting, instead of the MSM's sound bites:


Sure there are lot's of folks cheering to see Bundy leave, but there are also lots of folks mad as heck at the Judge.  And when "throngs" of people chanted "go, go, go" (you'll see/hear that around 40 min or so), you'll hear that it was maybe 20 or so and at the same time there was folks chanted "stay, stay, stay".  And why are they mad at the Judge and the county officials?  Here is the counties 'out reach' to solve the problem:



> Tony Svejcar, a research leader and rangeland scientist, attended to provide an update on Eastern Oregon Agricultural Research Center programs and scientific research projects.
> Svejcar said he’s retired from the USDA Agricultural Research Service, but he still has an appointment with Oregon State University.
> Svejcar said the center aims to “get the science into the hands of the people who can use it.” For example, researchers provide information to agencies, such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), and the National Park Service, to inform their long-term planning efforts. Svejcar added that researchers have devoted a lot of time to formulating a sage grouse plan that is workable for people on the land. He said researchers are also currently working to provide large-scale data on the progress of sage grouse habitat.



He is mainly wanting to work with the environmentalists and not the ranchers as far as I can tell.

Link:  Harney County Court discusses refuge occupation – Burns Times-Herald

And that is the underlying cause of this. Whether or not it is constitutional for the Fed to own this much property, any one who has lived in rural areas know how aggressive the Feds have been in either acquiring MORE property and/or closing more and more of it off to the public in favor of the huge and well funded environmentalist lobby. I don't really think the land should be turned over to the states or counties, but we need to do something to REALLY keep the land open to all.  When I see the pics of the environazis with signs saying, "Keep the land for all of us" I know for a fact that it is a lie!  Maybe all of us if all you want to do is walk in there just about barefoot!


----------



## Carla_Danger

teddyearp said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I presented videos from the Grasty meeting, why don't you present videos from that meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try this one, the whole meeting, instead of the MSM's sound bites:
> 
> 
> Sure there are lot's of folks cheering to see Bundy leave, but there are also lots of folks mad as heck at the Judge.  And when "throngs" of people chanted "go, go, go" (you'll see/hear that around 40 min or so), you'll hear that it was maybe 20 or so and at the same time there was folks chanted "stay, stay, stay".  And why are they mad at the Judge and the county officials?  Here is the counties 'out reach' to solve the problem:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Svejcar, a research leader and rangeland scientist, attended to provide an update on Eastern Oregon Agricultural Research Center programs and scientific research projects.
> Svejcar said he’s retired from the USDA Agricultural Research Service, but he still has an appointment with Oregon State University.
> Svejcar said the center aims to “get the science into the hands of the people who can use it.” For example, researchers provide information to agencies, such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), and the National Park Service, to inform their long-term planning efforts. Svejcar added that researchers have devoted a lot of time to formulating a sage grouse plan that is workable for people on the land. He said researchers are also currently working to provide large-scale data on the progress of sage grouse habitat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is mainly wanting to work with the environmentalists and not the ranchers as far as I can tell.
> 
> Link:  Harney County Court discusses refuge occupation – Burns Times-Herald
> 
> And that is the underlying cause of this. Whether or not it is constitutional for the Fed to own this much property, any one who has lived in rural areas know how aggressive the Feds have been in either acquiring MORE property and/or closing more and more of it off to the public in favor of the huge and well funded environmentalist lobby. I don't really think the land should be turned over to the states or counties, but we need to do something to REALLY keep the land open to all.  When I see the pics of the environazis with signs saying, "Keep the land for all of us" I know for a fact that it is a lie!  Maybe all of us if all you want to do is walk in there just about barefoot!
Click to expand...




Bullshit, the majority of people are clapping and yelling for them to go home. I heard one irritating woman yelling "stay" and that was prolly Koshergirl.


----------



## teddyearp

Carla_Danger said:


> Bullshit, the majority of people are clapping and yelling for them to go home.



Yes, I agree, there were a majority of attendees clapping when a speaker asked them to leave, re-read my post.  I was just debunking some of the stories that made it sound like when the chanting of "go, go, go" was going on, that it was a majority of the people, and to also point out that during said chanting, there was also chants of "stay, stay, stay" which was not reported  Splitting hairs, but still . . . .


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> The protesters have continually asserted that they want to meet with the fbi, that they will come to any meeting. But the fbi, via grasty and the corrupt officials, has made it almost impossible for this to happen. Finally Bundy received a telephone call from an fbi negotiator yesterday, I think. Until then, nobody from the blm, fish and game, the fbi..NONE of them have met with him. The Sheriff met with him, but had no interest in talking about anything except telling him to leave.



What would the Sheriff want to talk to them about, baseball? Ammon and his ilk are violating the law. The Sheriff ordered them to cease and desist, to go home. That's his job. 

The Hammonds didn't want anything to do with the Militia and didn't ask them to come. The park service certainly didn't. The governor didn't. The people of Burns didn't. The Mayor didn't. The Sheriff didn't. Even the local Native American tribes didn't.

If the Bundy thugs *really* believed their own rhetoric about local control, they'd listen to the locals. Instead, they only law they recognize...are themselves. The only authority they'll listen to.......are themselves. No one elected them. No one voted on the laws they are imposing. 

The Bundy Thugs are little dictators, insisting that THEY make the law. And the local people, local authorities, even the State government can go fuck themselves.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> The feds have NO AUTHORITY in Harney County.



Bullshit. The Feds have authority throughout the United States. Of which Harney County is part. And of course the Wildlife Reserve is federal property. Which gives them jurisdiction yet again.

Remember, you randomly making up pseudo-legal gibberish and right wing fantasies doesn't actually change the law or the constitution. The constitution *explicitly* grants Congress the authority to set the rules for federal property. US law and the courts recognize this. The State of Oregon recognizes this. Its laws and its courts do as well.




> THAT is why they aren't sending in swat teams and bombs and whatever else they do. That is why they don't arrest Bundy when he's moving around. Because they don't have the authority or the right to do so. It is solely the right and authority of the local Sheriff, and HE hasn't done it because he CAN'T, unless they commit a crime. And so far, they haven't.



Nonsense. That's just your fantasy, Kosh. You're literally making up a nonsense delusion based on nothing, pretending that you are the law, the feds, the sheriff. And you're nobody. That you imagine otherwise doesn't change the facts. 



> The only person who committed a crime was the guy from out of the state, who was driving a vehicle with switched plates, and his has been the only arrest.


[/quote]

Says you, citing yourself as the law. And you're nobody. 

 Back in reality, they've violated seditious conspiracy laws, theft laws, trespassing laws, vandalism laws, burglary laws, etc. And will most likely do some serious time. And should.


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I presented videos from the Grasty meeting, why don't you present videos from that meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try this one, the whole meeting, instead of the MSM's sound bites:
> 
> 
> Sure there are lot's of folks cheering to see Bundy leave, but there are also lots of folks mad as heck at the Judge.  And when "throngs" of people chanted "go, go, go" (you'll see/hear that around 40 min or so), you'll hear that it was maybe 20 or so and at the same time there was folks chanted "stay, stay, stay".  And why are they mad at the Judge and the county officials?  Here is the counties 'out reach' to solve the problem:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Svejcar, a research leader and rangeland scientist, attended to provide an update on Eastern Oregon Agricultural Research Center programs and scientific research projects.
> Svejcar said he’s retired from the USDA Agricultural Research Service, but he still has an appointment with Oregon State University.
> Svejcar said the center aims to “get the science into the hands of the people who can use it.” For example, researchers provide information to agencies, such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), and the National Park Service, to inform their long-term planning efforts. Svejcar added that researchers have devoted a lot of time to formulating a sage grouse plan that is workable for people on the land. He said researchers are also currently working to provide large-scale data on the progress of sage grouse habitat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is mainly wanting to work with the environmentalists and not the ranchers as far as I can tell.
> 
> Link:  Harney County Court discusses refuge occupation – Burns Times-Herald
> 
> And that is the underlying cause of this. Whether or not it is constitutional for the Fed to own this much property, any one who has lived in rural areas know how aggressive the Feds have been in either acquiring MORE property and/or closing more and more of it off to the public in favor of the huge and well funded environmentalist lobby. I don't really think the land should be turned over to the states or counties, but we need to do something to REALLY keep the land open to all.  When I see the pics of the environazis with signs saying, "Keep the land for all of us" I know for a fact that it is a lie!  Maybe all of us if all you want to do is walk in there just about barefoot!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, the majority of people are clapping and yelling for them to go home. I heard one irritating woman yelling "stay" and that was prolly Koshergirl.
Click to expand...

 
There were around 100 people at Grasty's meeting, though some accounts put it as closer to 200. And of the people there about 100 of them were holdovers from the meeting before, which had about 400 people by the latest accounts,  who are definitely supporting the cause that Bundy support...i.e., the eviction of corrupt officials, the termination of illegal federal oversight and persecution, and the releast of the Hammonds.

Grasty, who told the community that they could NOT use the fairgrounds for their community meeting, then called a meeting of his own, scheduled to run at the same time as the community meeting that was scheduled to take place regardless of Grasty's denial of the public meeting places....He rounded up about a hundred of his friends and relatives...families of the law enforcement and forest service communities, primarily transplants who came for jobs with the government, or who came to hang out with their family members who work for the government, or actual family of Grasty's (like his hysterical granddaughter who got so much press when she started bawling  in one of the public meetings), or people from Eugene and Portland there to support other corrupt officials (like the two kids who are the sons  of another corrupt judge involved in railroading the Hammonds).

His purpose was to make it difficult or impossible for any of the community members who planned to criticize or demand answers to show up, and to create an audience (from Burns and elsewhere) to make a showing of support for the corrupt lunatics who are the problem. And I still hear people yelling "the feds need to GO!!".

Despite this ploy, the meeting was full of pertinent questions, ignored by the media, in which the assholes then maintained were a disturbance of the meeting. They tried to force people to sit where they told them. They removed two people from the crowd who asked pertinent questions...and still, they answered none of the questions, which included direct demands that Ward explain why he isn't protecting the interests of the people who live there.  

I love it when some woman from Douglas county demands to know why people from outside the area are there, hahahaha.

I also notice the really lame applause when the mayor speaks lol.


----------



## koshergrl

The sheriff and the good judge also keep asserting that they must stop using social media...because they don't want outsiders to see how the majority of Harney County residents are totally disgusted of federal overreach, intimidation, and attack.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The feds have NO AUTHORITY in Harney County.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. The Feds have authority throughout the United States. Of which Harney County is part. And of course the Wildlife Reserve is federal property. Which gives them jurisdiction yet again.
> 
> Remember, you randomly making up pseudo-legal gibberish and right wing fantasies doesn't actually change the law or the constitution. The constitution *explicitly* grants Congress the authority to set the rules for federal property. US law and the courts recognize this. The State of Oregon recognizes this. Its laws and its courts do as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THAT is why they aren't sending in swat teams and bombs and whatever else they do. That is why they don't arrest Bundy when he's moving around. Because they don't have the authority or the right to do so. It is solely the right and authority of the local Sheriff, and HE hasn't done it because he CAN'T, unless they commit a crime. And so far, they haven't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense. That's just your fantasy, Kosh. You're literally making up a nonsense delusion based on nothing, pretending that you are the law, the feds, the sheriff. And you're nobody. That you imagine otherwise doesn't change the facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only person who committed a crime was the guy from out of the state, who was driving a vehicle with switched plates, and his has been the only arrest.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 
Says you, citing yourself as the law. And you're nobody.

Back in reality, they've violated seditious conspiracy laws, theft laws, trespassing laws, vandalism laws, burglary laws, etc. And will most likely do some serious time. And should.[/QUOTE]

Actually, according to the Harney County Sheriff, who issued a news release on it, you retard.


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> CREDIT: AP Images/Manuel Valdes
> FILE - In this Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2016, file photo,* members of the Burns Paiute tribe watch a news conference held by their leaders in response to the armed occupation of the nearby Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns, Ore. A leader of the Oregon Indian tribe whose ancestral property is being occupied by an armed group opposed to federal land policy said Wednesday that the group is not welcome and needs to leave.* (AP Photo/Manuel Valdes, File)
> 
> Bundy Militia Post Video Of Themselves Messing With Native American Artifacts


I see nothing that asserts that those Indians are there to protest the protest. In fact, the fact that there is only the pic and no headlines being posted all over the place, I maintain they were there in opposition to federal control of the land and the corruption of the local officials, just like the majority of other Harney County residents. I bet they own property, in which case they're being subjected to the same garbage that everybody else it.

In fact,they aren't even in the gymnasius where the meeting is. Who the hell knows where the idiot tyrone, who is hard pressed to come up with a coherent sentence at any time, retrieved this photo.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Actually, according to the Harney County Sheriff, who issued a news release on it, you retard.



Um, hon....where did the Harney County Sheriff say that the Feds had no jurisdiction?


----------



## koshergrl

In the meantime, let's revisit a government employee bragging over how they tie up elderly ww2 veterans up in red tape in order to purchase their mine, valued at 40 million, for 2 million.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CREDIT: AP Images/Manuel Valdes
> FILE - In this Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2016, file photo,* members of the Burns Paiute tribe watch a news conference held by their leaders in response to the armed occupation of the nearby Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns, Ore. A leader of the Oregon Indian tribe whose ancestral property is being occupied by an armed group opposed to federal land policy said Wednesday that the group is not welcome and needs to leave.* (AP Photo/Manuel Valdes, File)
> 
> Bundy Militia Post Video Of Themselves Messing With Native American Artifacts
> 
> 
> 
> I see nothing that asserts that those Indians are there to protest the protest. In fact, the fact that there is only the pic and no headlines being posted all over the place, I maintain they were there in opposition to federal control of the land and the corruption of the local officials, just like the majority of other Harney County residents. I bet they own property, in which case they're being subjected to the same garbage that everybody else it.
Click to expand...


They've openly opposed the the militia and asked them to leave. With 'what you bet' being just more fantasy gibberish you made up. As you no idea what you're talking about.

The Tribes have asked the militia to leave. The local mayor has. The local sheriff has. The people of Burns have. The governor has. Even Ammon's church has told him that he's got no leg to stand on. 

And Ammon's response to all has been that they can go fuck themselves. That the Bundy Thugs make the law. 

Demonstrating the lie of their empty lip service to 'local control'. When they say 'local control', they mean that they make the law.


----------



## koshergrl

You want to hear about the fbi creeping around and pretending to be protesters/safety committee people, about 8:50. People are preventing access to the sheriff, to the courthouse. They're telling people that if they want to talk to the sheriff, they're supposed to call 911...which is a line for emergencies only. Grasty told him he didn't have the right to talk to people and ask them about their purpose or their reason for being there.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> You want to hear about the fbi creeping around and pretending to be protesters/safety committee people, about 8:50. People are preventing access to the sheriff, to the courthouse. They're telling people that if they want to talk to the sheriff, they're supposed to call 911...which is a line for emergencies only. Grasty told him he didn't have the right to talk to people and ask them about their purpose or their reason for being there.



Yeah, the ex-fire chief has since backed the hell off those claims.



> *FBI Agents Weren't Posing as Militia, Ex-Fire Chief Clarifies*
> 
> An allegation that undercover FBI agents were caught posing as militia members in southeast Oregon splashed around the Internet this week, but the story’s purported source says he made no such claim.
> 
> Chris Briels, who recently resigned his position as Harney County fire chief, says Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore, whose Wednesday press release sparked concern about a throwbackto FBI infiltration and dirty tricks against activists, must have misunderstood him.
> 
> FBI Agents Weren't Posing as Militia, Ex-Fire Chief Clarifies



But maybe you'll find more reliable information on Sputnik News again. I mean, if you can't trust a Russian Government owned and operated newsource, who can you trust?


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Have the coffee tables been rescued yet?


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I presented videos from the Grasty meeting, why don't you present videos from that meeting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try this one, the whole meeting, instead of the MSM's sound bites:
> 
> 
> Sure there are lot's of folks cheering to see Bundy leave, but there are also lots of folks mad as heck at the Judge.  And when "throngs" of people chanted "go, go, go" (you'll see/hear that around 40 min or so), you'll hear that it was maybe 20 or so and at the same time there was folks chanted "stay, stay, stay".  And why are they mad at the Judge and the county officials?  Here is the counties 'out reach' to solve the problem:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony Svejcar, a research leader and rangeland scientist, attended to provide an update on Eastern Oregon Agricultural Research Center programs and scientific research projects.
> Svejcar said he’s retired from the USDA Agricultural Research Service, but he still has an appointment with Oregon State University.
> Svejcar said the center aims to “get the science into the hands of the people who can use it.” For example, researchers provide information to agencies, such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), and the National Park Service, to inform their long-term planning efforts. Svejcar added that researchers have devoted a lot of time to formulating a sage grouse plan that is workable for people on the land. He said researchers are also currently working to provide large-scale data on the progress of sage grouse habitat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is mainly wanting to work with the environmentalists and not the ranchers as far as I can tell.
> 
> Link:  Harney County Court discusses refuge occupation – Burns Times-Herald
> 
> And that is the underlying cause of this. Whether or not it is constitutional for the Fed to own this much property, any one who has lived in rural areas know how aggressive the Feds have been in either acquiring MORE property and/or closing more and more of it off to the public in favor of the huge and well funded environmentalist lobby. I don't really think the land should be turned over to the states or counties, but we need to do something to REALLY keep the land open to all.  When I see the pics of the environazis with signs saying, "Keep the land for all of us" I know for a fact that it is a lie!  Maybe all of us if all you want to do is walk in there just about barefoot!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit, the majority of people are clapping and yelling for them to go home. I heard one irritating woman yelling "stay" and that was prolly Koshergirl.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were around 100 people at Grasty's meeting, though some accounts put it as closer to 200. And of the people there about 100 of them were holdovers from the meeting before, which had about 400 people by the latest accounts,  who are definitely supporting the cause that Bundy support...i.e., the eviction of corrupt officials, the termination of illegal federal oversight and persecution, and the releast of the Hammonds.
> 
> Grasty, who told the community that they could NOT use the fairgrounds for their community meeting, then called a meeting of his own, scheduled to run at the same time as the community meeting that was scheduled to take place regardless of Grasty's denial of the public meeting places....He rounded up about a hundred of his friends and relatives...families of the law enforcement and forest service communities, primarily transplants who came for jobs with the government, or who came to hang out with their family members who work for the government, or actual family of Grasty's (like his hysterical granddaughter who got so much press when she started bawling  in one of the public meetings), or people from Eugene and Portland there to support other corrupt officials (like the two kids who are the sons  of another corrupt judge involved in railroading the Hammonds).
> 
> His purpose was to make it difficult or impossible for any of the community members who planned to criticize or demand answers to show up, and to create an audience (from Burns and elsewhere) to make a showing of support for the corrupt lunatics who are the problem. And I still hear people yelling "the feds need to GO!!".
> 
> Despite this ploy, the meeting was full of pertinent questions, ignored by the media, in which the assholes then maintained were a disturbance of the meeting. They tried to force people to sit where they told them. They removed two people from the crowd who asked pertinent questions...and still, they answered none of the questions, which included direct demands that Ward explain why he isn't protecting the interests of the people who live there.
> 
> I love it when some woman from Douglas county demands to know why people from outside the area are there, hahahaha.
> 
> I also notice the really lame applause when the mayor speaks lol.
Click to expand...





That sounds like a conspiracy/figment of your imagination.


----------



## Old Rocks

Kosher has once again claimed there was an earlier meeting with more people. Yet she has not produced a single video from that meeting. I say that Kosher is an unrepentant liar, and pulling that kind of blather out of her ample ass.

There should be only one kind of negotiation with the Bundy criminals. Surrender peacefully, and your sentences may be concurrent. Make it a fight, and they will be consectutive.


----------



## Old Rocks

Grampa Murked U said:


> Have the coffee tables been rescued yet?


Sheesh, go down there and join the other felons.


----------



## Remodeling Maidiac

Old Rocks said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have the coffee tables been rescued yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Sheesh, go down there and join the other felons.
Click to expand...

I am happy right here mocking you whiney ass liberals.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Kosher has once again claimed there was an earlier meeting with more people. Yet she has not produced a single video from that meeting. I say that Kosher is an unrepentant liar, and pulling that kind of blather out of her ample ass.
> 
> There should be only one kind of negotiation with the Bundy criminals. Surrender peacefully, and your sentences may be concurrent. Make it a fight, and they will be consectutive.


I dont feel obligated to ptove what nobody except lying cowardly hacks question.


----------



## koshergrl

using a federal facility for its intended purpose isnt a felony, idiot. one wonders..if so many laws have been broken, why havent more been arrested? oh yeah becauuse they havent done anything. and the community is witness to it, and the community and ithers continue to support them. awkwaerd for commies like you to get around.


----------



## koshergrl




----------



## BULLDOG

koshergrl said:


>




That idiot is trying to use the same lame talking points that the idiots here are trying to use. It just doesn't work the way she wants it to.


----------



## Old Rocks

Crook County is not Harney County, and what would a meeting there have to do with the problem at the Refuge? The people of Burns and Harney county have spoken with a near unanimous voice, they want the assholes out of their county.


----------



## koshergrl

Sheriff refuses to.meet sends representative. admits they have ilrgally authorized fbi to set up standi g army. Wont write a statement confirming fbi is their by their authotization, admits that some of it was done without their authority.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Crook County is not Harney County, and what would a meeting there have to do with the problem at the Refuge? The people of Burns and Harney county have spoken with a near unanimous voice, they want the assholes out of their county.


Liar. they want the fbi out, that is unanimous.


----------



## koshergrl

the thread title references oregon. All of rural Oregon and all of the rural us is suffering under this garbage. it is not and has never been about burns or harney county alone. its about the land grab and theft of natural resources in places too sparsely populated to resist by themselves.


----------



## Old Rocks

Why should the sheriff, or even the FBI meet for negotiations with the felons? Do you negotiate with a burglar? We are dealing with felons, and It is long past time to put these miscreants behind bars. Shut down the power, blockhead the roads and paths in and out, and simply tell the assholes if a shot is fired, that will be met with overwhelming force. Time to take off the gloves.


----------



## mdk

Like them or lump them, I hope that water and land rights are issues that Congress addresses.


----------



## Old Rocks

While there have been actions that need to be reviewed, the rural people of those areas that have to realize that the BLM has the responsibility to maintain the health of the land, not just for cows, but for all uses. And that means less cows per section when there is a drought as there has been for the last few years. When that was open range, many areas suffered severe erosion and damage from overgrazing. Ever hear the term, 'tragedy of the commons'?

And what the fruitloops are demanding is not review of policy, but turning over of the land to private ownership. And that would end up with the land being off limits for most citizens. And likely that ownership would be Saudi or Chinese. 

No, Kosher, your idiotic ideas concerning our lands are not going to fly with the vast majority of Americans. Not even the majority of those in Eastern Oregon. We already saw you try to say you were speaking for most of the people in Harney County and Burns, then when those people repudiated your silliness, you called the maggots. From the gitgo, I have stated my admiration for the people of that area. I may disagree with some of them on some things, but I would never speak of them in the manner that you have. You do not speak for the people there at all. You only speak for yourself and a few other looneys.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> the thread title references oregon. All of rural Oregon and all of the rural us is suffering under this garbage. it is not and has never been about burns or harney county alone. its about the land grab and theft of natural resources in places too sparsely populated to resist by themselves.


The speaker starts at the very beginning defying anyone to show where the Constitution gives the right for the United States to own any land in the United States. She ignores the SCOTUS rulings and scholars and does not accept Article 4 Section 3 Clause 2 of the Constitution, but obviously chooses to accept the non-judicial speculations and meaningless commentaries of those who promote her and her sides agenda. It is meaningless because it has no standing and has never gotten past the federal courts. Unless and until someone gets the challenge of public land ownership in front of the SCOTUS, previous rulings on Article 4 Section 3 Clause 2, referred to as The Property Clause stands and no amount of whining changes that. These people can not claim to be defending the Constitution while they at the same time show they ignore it. Their actions show more than some speeches and uneducated and dishonest private agenda lectures.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Crook County is not Harney County, and what would a meeting there have to do with the problem at the Refuge? The people of Burns and Harney county have spoken with a near unanimous voice, they want the assholes out of their county.
> 
> 
> 
> Liar. they want the fbi out, that is unanimous.
Click to expand...

Where the fuck is your video of that meeting? Pulled the whole story out of your ample ass, didn't you. Yes, the people of Harney County would like to see the FBI gone, gone with the whole of the Bundy dingbats in cuffs. Harney County is a peaceful rural place that normally seldom see outside law enforcement. Only when you have felons like the batch Bundy brought with him do you see that. Time for the situation to be brought to an end, whatever it takes to do that.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> using a federal facility for its intended purpose isnt a felony, idiot. one wonders..if so many laws have been broken, why havent more been arrested? oh yeah becauuse they havent done anything.


*Marco Rubio: Oregon Occupiers Should Be Prosecuted*

Republican presidential candidate Marco Rubio said Friday that people "should be prosecuted" in the three-week stand-off at Oregon wildlife refuge, but said the federal government should not resort to violence against the group of armed men occupying the area.
"We're not going to treat them like an invading army from a foreign country," Rubio, a U.S. senator from Florida, told a crowd at a town hall in Merrimack, New Hampshire,
*
Marco says "just don't treat them as though they were Black folks"*


----------



## Old Rocks

The assholes are packing and threatening law enforcement if they try to enforce the law. At this point, I really don't care if they come out of there alive or dead. Just get them out. This has gone on way too long, and they have gotten away with far too many crimes. Time for an end to it.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Old Rocks said:


> The assholes are packing and threatening law enforcement if they try to enforce the law. At this point, I really don't care if they come out of there alive or dead. Just get them out. This has gone on way too long, and they have gotten away with far too many crimes. Time for an end to it.


I believe it is very important that none of the occupiers be harmed because that will "grant them martyrdom".  Having said that I also say they have to be confronted firmly. They have to feel the authority closing in on them.  To do that the out post must be sealed off by a Blockade of Roads.  Any of them alone outside the preserve arrested.*  It was galling to see Ammon Bundy walking to where the FBI is and he was not apprehended *in spite of probable cause to believe he has committed and is committing felonious offenses...
After sealing the preserve make demands for surrender...if no surrender cut off the electricity and water ....


----------



## koshergrl

that meeting wasnt one put on and orchestrated by grasty and the feds. The mainstream media doesnt cover them and the locals dont film them. 

heres another so called community meeting....scheduled after public outcry over the previous community meetings that have been carefully orchestrated to exclude the actual community.

grasty is limiting this meeting to 125 ppl, because he knows there were 400 outside the doors of his last show, and they are of one mind about federal invasion, overreach, and assault. when he found out how many people who are unsympathetic to illegal fed overreach who were planning to attend the NEXT meeting, at which opb intends to be present, he rescheduled the meeting, relocated it to a smaller place, and decided it would be attended only by 125ppl, and they must be approved and receive tickets. for a community meetinghttps://m.facebook.com/TheSchaeferFamily?fref=ts.   

oh and the document that names the dept of forestry appointees....theyve removed it from the harney county site because of the incestuous nature of the county officials and the feds.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> The assholes are packing and threatening law enforcement if they try to enforce the law. At this point, I really don't care if they come out of there alive or dead. Just get them out. This has gone on way too long, and they have gotten away with far too many crimes. Time for an end to it.


dont cry, old fag. go down there and wave a gun around and threaten the ranchers. maybe youll get an uprising named after you, like custer did.


----------



## Old Rocks

The meeting in Grant County concerning the Neo-Nazis wanting to buy property for a compound was also limited. Limited by law concerning the safe number of people in the building, fire code. I bet that was the limiting factor for that meeting, also. 

As for the rest of your spiel, can it. No one has even a camera with video on it? Or a cell phone capable of a 15 minute video? Kosher, you are simply lying to cover your lies. 

The people, or 'maggots' as you called them, in Harney County and Burns want Bundy and the rest of the felons out of there. Yesterday.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The assholes are packing and threatening law enforcement if they try to enforce the law. At this point, I really don't care if they come out of there alive or dead. Just get them out. This has gone on way too long, and they have gotten away with far too many crimes. Time for an end to it.
> 
> 
> 
> dont cry, old fag. go down there and wave a gun around and threaten the ranchers. maybe youll get an uprising named after you, like custer did.
Click to expand...

Sis, I and the locals are not the ones waving guns around. That is Bundy and his fellow felons. I don't wave a gun around, I use it as needed, and don't do drama.


----------



## BULLDOG

koshergrl said:


> Sheriff refuses to.meet sends representative. admits they have ilrgally authorized fbi to set up standi g army. Wont write a statement confirming fbi is their by their authotization, admits that some of it was done without their authority.




Since when is the FBI under the authority of the sheriff's office? That's just nuts.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*where does Ammon get his authority to question the FBI...he gets it from the guns he struts around with...how about disarming him and putting him in a cage.....lets see how much authority he has then........*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Members of the Burns Paiute Tribe *are increasingly angry nothing has been done to get the armed militants out of the refuge and away from their artifacts and the archeological sites:

*On Friday, the tribe delivered a letter to federal agencies including the U.S. Attorney and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service demanding prosecution of Ammon Bundy and other armed militants occupying the Malheur Wildlife Refuge*, “If the occupiers disturb, damage, remove, alter, or deface any archaeological resource on the refuge property.

There are approximately 4,000 artifacts belonging to the tribe in the buildings the militants are holding. The occupation is entering its third week.
The tribe is *demanding federal action under both the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 and a "protection against bad men” provision in the treaty the tribe signed with the United States in 1868.*


Militants bulldoze through Native American archeological site, share video rifling through artifacts​


----------



## Old Rocks

The assholes are committing multiple felonies. Were they red, brown, or black, it would already be over. Time for it to end, now.


----------



## koshergrl

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The assholes are packing and threatening law enforcement if they try to enforce the law. At this point, I really don't care if they come out of there alive or dead. Just get them out. This has gone on way too long, and they have gotten away with far too many crimes. Time for an end to it.
> 
> 
> 
> dont cry, old fag. go down there and wave a gun around and threaten the ranchers. maybe youll get an uprising named after you, like custer did.
Click to expand...




Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The assholes are packing and threatening law enforcement if they try to enforce the law. At this point, I really don't care if they come out of there alive or dead. Just get them out. This has gone on way too long, and they have gotten away with far too many crimes. Time for an end to it.
> 
> 
> 
> dont cry, old fag. go down there and wave a gun around and threaten the ranchers. maybe youll get an uprising named after you, like custer did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sis, I and the locals are not the ones waving guns around. That is Bundy and his fellow felons. I don't wave a gun around, I use it as needed, and don't do drama.
Click to expand...

Nonsense, bundy doesnt even pack as a rule. So why do you suppose the fbi nrgotiator cancelled the meeting he scheduled with Bundy today, after finding out it was to be an open meeting before the press? Didnt you make disparaging remarks about Bundy yesterday for not speaki g to them in person?

the fact is, bundy and the protesters and the safety committee have ALL been reaching out. Bundys call from the fbi negotiator the day before yesterday was their initial attemp to contact him.They agreed to talk in person on friday....and when the negotiator found out there would be press, and questions asked, he backed out.

Meanwhile, feds have commandeered the courthouse, hospital, school and fairgrounds. That means officially the could probably


Old Rocks said:


> The assholes are committing multiple felonies. Were they red, brown, or black, it would already be over. Time for it to end, now.


list the felonies, and the laws that they have violated.

you cant. if it could be.done it would have. even the guy the arrested off the refuge was arrested for uumv, lol. ive seedn fourteen years olds charged with that....and I dont believe its a felony.


----------



## Dot Com

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The assholes are packing and threatening law enforcement if they try to enforce the law. At this point, I really don't care if they come out of there alive or dead. Just get them out. This has gone on way too long, and they have gotten away with far too many crimes. Time for an end to it.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe it is very important that none of the occupiers be harmed because that will "grant them martyrdom".  Having said that I also say they have to be confronted firmly. They have to feel the authority closing in on them.  To do that the out post must be sealed off by a Blockade of Roads.  Any of them alone outside the preserve arrested.*  It was galling to see Ammon Bundy walking to where the FBI is and he was not apprehended *in spite of probable cause to believe he has committed and is committing felonious offenses...
> After sealing the preserve make demands for surrender...if no surrender cut off the electricity and water ....
Click to expand...

true.

Its time to seal the area off, including electricity & water, and let them see how long they can amuse themselves playing board games


----------



## koshergrl

Waiting for a list of the imaginary felonies the protesters have committed.

I dont know if breaking into the armory while pretending to be someone else is a felony...in which case som undercover feds might have some splaining to do.....

then theres this....https://m.facebook.com/laura.chewsa...062763638&cached_data=false&ftid=u_1o_5&mdf=1

apparently the feds are after veterans now...


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Waiting for a list of the imaginary felonies the protesters have committed.
> 
> I dont know if breaking into the armory while pretending to be someone else is a felony...in which case som undercover feds might have some splaining to do.....
> 
> then theres this....https://m.facebook.com/laura.chewsanders/posts/pcb.1139547062763638/?photo_id=10208602703729673&mds=/photos/viewer/?photoset_token=pcb.1139547062763638&photo=10208602703729673&profileid=100000091902891&source=48&refid=18&ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_r2j_approved&_ft_=qid.6243054858676280813%3Amf_story_key.1139547062763638%3Atl_objid.1139547062763638&cached_data=false&ftid=u_1o_5&mdf=1
> 
> apparently the feds are after veterans now...



Start with Seditious Conspiracy. 

Remember, just because you 'say' that the federal government has no jurisdiction on federal land doesn't magically mean that reality changes to match.

You're stuck with the actual law. Not your imagination.


----------



## Skylar

TyroneSlothrop said:


>



It goes without saying that if the Bundy Thugs were say, Nation of Islam or Black Panthers, Kosher and her ilk would have a very different take on the matter.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> the thread title references oregon. All of rural Oregon and all of the rural us is suffering under this garbage. it is not and has never been about burns or harney county alone. its about the land grab and theft of natural resources in places too sparsely populated to resist by themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> The speaker starts at the very beginning defying anyone to show where the Constitution gives the right for the United States to own any land in the United States. She ignores the SCOTUS rulings and scholars and does not accept Article 4 Section 3 Clause 2 of the Constitution, but obviously chooses to accept the non-judicial speculations and meaningless commentaries of those who promote her and her sides agenda. It is meaningless because it has no standing and has never gotten past the federal courts. Unless and until someone gets the challenge of public land ownership in front of the SCOTUS, previous rulings on Article 4 Section 3 Clause 2, referred to as The Property Clause stands and no amount of whining changes that. These people can not claim to be defending the Constitution while they at the same time show they ignore it. Their actions show more than some speeches and uneducated and dishonest private agenda lectures.
Click to expand...

no, the property clause refers only to Territories. There are no territories in the continental us.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The assholes are packing and threatening law enforcement if they try to enforce the law. At this point, I really don't care if they come out of there alive or dead. Just get them out. This has gone on way too long, and they have gotten away with far too many crimes. Time for an end to it.
> 
> 
> 
> dont cry, old fag. go down there and wave a gun around and threaten the ranchers. maybe youll get an uprising named after you, like custer did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The assholes are packing and threatening law enforcement if they try to enforce the law. At this point, I really don't care if they come out of there alive or dead. Just get them out. This has gone on way too long, and they have gotten away with far too many crimes. Time for an end to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dont cry, old fag. go down there and wave a gun around and threaten the ranchers. maybe youll get an uprising named after you, like custer did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sis, I and the locals are not the ones waving guns around. That is Bundy and his fellow felons. I don't wave a gun around, I use it as needed, and don't do drama.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense, bundy doesnt even pack as a rule. So why do you suppose the fbi nrgotiator cancelled the meeting he scheduled with Bundy today, after finding out it was to be an open meeting before the press? Didnt you make disparaging remarks about Bundy yesterday for not speaki g to them in person?
Click to expand...


Because legitimate negotiations aren't done in front of the press. Which both Bundy and the FBI know. Bundy isn't looking to negotiate. He's looking for a public platform to spout his Sovereign CItizen horseshit. 

If Bundy *actually* wanted to negotiate, he'd sit down the negotiator and talk with him. But Bundy refuses to do so. 

But tell us again, hon.....how the Federal Government doesn't have any jurisdiction over Federal Property. We could all use a good giggle.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> the thread title references oregon. All of rural Oregon and all of the rural us is suffering under this garbage. it is not and has never been about burns or harney county alone. its about the land grab and theft of natural resources in places too sparsely populated to resist by themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> The speaker starts at the very beginning defying anyone to show where the Constitution gives the right for the United States to own any land in the United States. She ignores the SCOTUS rulings and scholars and does not accept Article 4 Section 3 Clause 2 of the Constitution, but obviously chooses to accept the non-judicial speculations and meaningless commentaries of those who promote her and her sides agenda. It is meaningless because it has no standing and has never gotten past the federal courts. Unless and until someone gets the challenge of public land ownership in front of the SCOTUS, previous rulings on Article 4 Section 3 Clause 2, referred to as The Property Clause stands and no amount of whining changes that. These people can not claim to be defending the Constitution while they at the same time show they ignore it. Their actions show more than some speeches and uneducated and dishonest private agenda lectures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, the property clause refers only to Territories. There are no territories in the continental us.
Click to expand...


Nope. It says Territories OR other property. "Or" is the exact opposite of the 'only' you imagined in the Property Clause. Here's the actual Property Clause, not your imagination one.



> The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States....
> 
> Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2



Remember, hon.....you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And your pseudo-legal gibberish isn't the law.

Meanwhile there's no angle where the Militia isn't spouting sovereign citizen horseshit. As this isn't a matter of State's Rights. The Governor of Oregon has already asked them to leave and they told her to go fuck herself. This isn't a matter of the constitution. As it explicitly grants the Congress authority to set these rules. This isn't a matter of due process, as the Hammonds most definitely had their day in court. This isn't a matter of redress of grievances, as the Hammonds and even the militia have had every right to bring their complaints to court without retaliation.

And now the final lie in the fringe right militia is playing out. Their call for 'local control'. The mayor and sheriff of Burns have asked them to leave. And they've told both to fuck themselves, even trying to intimidate people in the nearby town by following them and their families.

There is only one law among the militia: themselves. *Not the State, not the local government, n ot the constitution. Just the Militia men citing themselves. *They've already demonstrated the lie to all their empty rhetoric about 'state' and 'local' control.


----------



## Old Rocks

Since when do felons make the conditions for negotiations with the law?


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> the thread title references oregon. All of rural Oregon and all of the rural us is suffering under this garbage. it is not and has never been about burns or harney county alone. its about the land grab and theft of natural resources in places too sparsely populated to resist by themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> The speaker starts at the very beginning defying anyone to show where the Constitution gives the right for the United States to own any land in the United States. She ignores the SCOTUS rulings and scholars and does not accept Article 4 Section 3 Clause 2 of the Constitution, but obviously chooses to accept the non-judicial speculations and meaningless commentaries of those who promote her and her sides agenda. It is meaningless because it has no standing and has never gotten past the federal courts. Unless and until someone gets the challenge of public land ownership in front of the SCOTUS, previous rulings on Article 4 Section 3 Clause 2, referred to as The Property Clause stands and no amount of whining changes that. These people can not claim to be defending the Constitution while they at the same time show they ignore it. Their actions show more than some speeches and uneducated and dishonest private agenda lectures.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, the property clause refers only to Territories. There are no territories in the continental us.
Click to expand...

That guy is a wacko, a genuine nut job. He is pissed off because the locals are trying to hold a meeting for only county residents and not allowing armed outsiders from attending. He calls that bureaucratic terrorism. County residents having a meeting with county officials and telling outsiders they are uninvited and the only people with guns will be the cops has now become a form of terrorism.


----------



## Old Rocks

Still waiting for the videos of the meeting that you state took place, Kosher.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> The protesters have continually asserted that they want to meet with the fbi, that they will come to any meeting. But the fbi, via grasty and the corrupt officials, has made it almost impossible for this to happen. Finally Bundy received a telephone call from an fbi negotiator yesterday, I think. Until then, nobody from the blm, fish and game, the fbi..NONE of them have met with him. The Sheriff met with him, but had no interest in talking about anything except telling him to leave.
> 
> The negotiator said they would continue to speak at a personal meeting today, so Bundy agreed..provided the meeting took place in front of the media. The FBI declined.
> 
> Imgine that.
> 
> The refusal to meet in front of medial is two fold..#1....they don't want the media to record them behaving the way they behave. And #2, the feds don't want to answer the questions that are being asked, by the people and by Bundy...WHO GAVE YOU THE AUTHORITY TO TELL US WHAT TO DO WITH OUR LAND? WHO GAVE GAVE YOU THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THE POLICIES THAT RESULT IN VIOLATIONS THAT YOU USE TO JUSTIFY DECADES OF PERSECUTION, CITATIONS, FINES, AND IMPRISONMENT OF LANDOWNERS? And why are our elected officials not protecting the people who they are SWORN to defend, acting against their interest with people who are persecuting them?
> 
> The feds have NO AUTHORITY in Harney County. THAT is why they aren't sending in swat teams and bombs and whatever else they do. That is why they don't arrest Bundy when he's moving around. Because they don't have the authority or the right to do so. It is solely the right and authority of the local Sheriff, and HE hasn't done it because he CAN'T, unless they commit a crime. And so far, they haven't.
> 
> The only person who committed a crime was the guy from out of the state, who was driving a vehicle with switched plates, and his has been the only arrest.




So full of crap! Do you deal in anything other than falsehoods?

Leader of armed takeover at Oregon refuge meets with the FBI

Oregon refuge occupier begins to speak with FBI - The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram


----------



## Skylar

Old Rocks said:


> Since when do felons make the conditions for negotiations with the law?



Laughing......a day ago Kosher was insisting that the FBI negotiator didn't meet with Bundy in a press conference because the FBI has no jurisdiction.

Kosh is just making this shit up as she goes along.


----------



## Skylar

> Bundy said he went to the airport to meet with FBI officials face to face, but they declined to meet him. Bundy said the FBI had called him 14 times in a row earlier this week, but he couldn’t pick up the phone because he was in a meeting.
> 
> Oregon refuge occupier begins to speak with FBI - The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram



The FBI called 14 times earlier in the week.....but FBI didn't want to talk to Bundy until yesterday.

Sigh....Kosh, do you ever get tired of not knowing what the fuck you're talking about?


----------



## Old Rocks

"This is huge" the only the huge is the prick doing the talking. A local matter that is being taken care of by the locals. No more outsider assholes packing guns.


----------



## Old Rocks

Once again, ol' Kosh is calling the people of Harney County names. It is they that have decided they don't want these assholes bothering them.


----------



## Skylar

Old Rocks said:


> "This is huge" the only the huge is the prick doing the talking. A local matter that is being taken care of by the locals. No more outsider assholes packing guns.



Seriously. Out of State assholes have invaded the area and told the locals to go fuck themselves. Told the State to go fuck themselves. Told the local tribes to go fuck themselves. Told the sherrif, the mayor, the feds.....to go fuck themselves.

There is only one law that the Bundy Thugs recognize: themselves. That's it. 

All this babble about 'state and local control' is just empty lip service.


----------



## Skylar

And here's the ironic part: the FBI and the locals are treading softly because they're trying to keep these morons alive.


----------



## Old Rocks

Ol' Kosh really doesn't like all those local 'maggots' in Burns and Harney county.


----------



## Old Rocks

And, really, it is time for that to end.


----------



## Skylar

Old Rocks said:


> Ol' Kosh really doesn't like all those local 'maggots' in Burns and Harney county.



Kosh is just your generic batshit conspiracy theorist. And the maxim of virtually every conspiracy theorist alive is the same:

"Anyone who doesn't ape the conspiracy...becomes part of it'.

Burns didn't ape her hapless batshit. But, they became part of the conspiracy.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

The Friends of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and the Center for Biological Diversity held a counter-protest at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Tuesday, Jan. 19, 2016.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Malheur Field Station director left after learning: 'You have an armed militia down the road'

Evered was shocked when he took the call warning of the militants nearby. His heart rate and mind raced. He resisted leaving until the sheriff's office called as well, telling him to go immediately.
He was told the militants were dangerous.
Evered had one vehicle for escape – and it was encased in ice and snow. During the 15 minutes it took to thaw, Evered packed a few personal belongings. He spread seed for wild quail that count on him for winter sustenance.
Instead of taking the driveway out to Sodhouse Lane, Evered started south on a snow-covered refuge road, Central Patrol Road.
He drove slowly, headlights off. He worried about sliding off the road into the ditch. He crept along, avoiding braking to keep his taillights from coming on in the inky darkness.
When he hit Rattlesnake Butte, he figured he was out of sight of any of the militants and could safely brake. He drove 20 miles before turning on his headlights. He made it to Burns that night and later traveled on to a friend's home in central Oregon.
He expects to return to the field station next week to assess circumstances. He said lost and delayed reservations and other expenses related to the occupation have cost the Great Basin Society an estimated $12,000.
He worries about burst pipes and a temperamental pump that could disrupt the water supply. But that's not what keeps him up at night.
He has heard the anti-government protesters at the refuge are rifling through ancient Paiute artifacts stored there. He dreads returning home to find someone has tampered with business and personal records and other belongings in the field station.
"The field station was left under extremely poor circumstances," Evered said. "I know that damage is being done."
_-- Kelly House of The Oregonian/OregonLive contributed to this story._


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Old Rocks said:


> "This is huge" the only the huge is the prick doing the talking. A local matter that is being taken care of by the locals. No more outsider assholes packing guns.



Do you include the FBI, BLM and treasury agents as "outsider assholes packing guns"?


----------



## Old Rocks

No, because the locals want them there until the felons at the Refuge are removed.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

What's strange are those folks that consider these protesters "terrorists" but not the "Black Lives Matter" rioters.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> What's strange are those folks that consider these protesters "terrorists" but not the "Black Lives Matter" rioters.



I haven't seen a single 'black lives matter' protester in the wild life reserve in Oregon.


----------



## Old Rocks

Well now, I don't recall seeing the Black Lives Matter people in the Refuge. But I have seen pictures of a lot of assholes with military style weapons and cameos on there. As for your other claims, you lame brained asshole, don't try to put words into my mouth.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Old Rocks said:


> No, because the locals want them there until the felons at the Refuge are removed.



So you've conducted an opinion poll? Last I heard people weren't felons until convicted in a court of law. Do you think a majority of Wall St. locals wanted the "Occupy Wall St." protesters there?


----------



## Camp

9thIDdoc said:


> What's strange are those folks that consider these protesters "terrorists" but not the "Black Lives Matter" rioters.


That is  because no matter how much you stretch it, these two groups are not the same. Terrorists are not protesters. When members of a group are armed and threatening violence, they are not protesters. They are a definition of a terrorist group. Rioters are just a mob of criminals. 
The group that marched in protest in Burns were protesters. The group that went to the refuge with arms and made threats were terrorist. The same thing happens in a riot. The people who march and carry signs are protesters. The people who commit mob violence and crimes afterwards are rioters.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, because the locals want them there until the felons at the Refuge are removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you've conducted an opinion poll? Last I heard people weren't felons until convicted in a court of law. Do you think a majority of Wall St. locals wanted the "Occupy Wall St." protesters there?
Click to expand...


They've held town meetings with the overwhelming majority of calls being for the occupiers to leave. The sheriff has asked them to leave. The mayor has. The governor has. Even local Indian tribes.

And the occupiers ignore them all. So much for their empty lip service to 'local and state control'. The only authority the Bundy Thugs recognize.....is themselves. The only law they recognize....is themselves.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_"As for your other claims, you lame brained asshole, don't try to put words into my mouth."
_
Then don't try to put words in mine. And learn what a question mark indicates.


----------



## Old Rocks

9thIDdoc said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, because the locals want them there until the felons at the Refuge are removed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you've conducted an opinion poll? Last I heard people weren't felons until convicted in a court of law. Do you think a majority of Wall St. locals wanted the "Occupy Wall St." protesters there?
Click to expand...


Were the 'Occupy' people carrying military style weapons?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

._ The group that went to the refuge with arms and made threats were terrorist.
_
Do you claim they were illegally bearing arms? What threats?


----------



## Old Rocks

Look dummkopf, they stated that they would shoot anyone trying to kick them out of the Refuge. And they have enough artillery to make it interesting. Occupying a Federal installation by force of arms is the definition of sedition.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_"That is because no matter how much you stretch it, these two groups are not the same. Terrorists are not protesters. When members of a group are armed and threatening violence, they are not protesters."
_
Then the Black LM "protesters must be considered terrorists because they committed crimes which included acts of violence and threats of violence.
_
_


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> ._ The group that went to the refuge with arms and made threats were terrorist.
> _
> Do you claim they were illegally bearing arms? What threats?



When they are seizing federal land and property? The arms are the difference between trespassing and seditious conspiracy.


----------



## Old Rocks

Were there not more than a few arrests made during those riots? And the subject here is the felons at the Refuge, not the riots in the cities.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Old Rocks said:


> Look dummkopf, they stated that they would shoot anyone trying to kick them out of the Refuge. And they have enough artillery to make it interesting. Occupying a Federal installation by force of arms is the definition of sedition.



Really? I don't think so. How about a documented quote instead of rumor? The closest I've heard was a statement that they would defend themselves if attacked. Everyone has a right to do that. Unless they actually threatened to shoot someone or fired at someone they didn't do anything "by force of arms". The BLM protesters occupied both public and private areas and used violence to do so.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_"When they are seizing federal land and property? The arms are the difference between trespassing and seditious conspiracy"_

Not unless they are used in an illegal manner..


----------



## Old Rocks

So, if someone is living in your home after you have been gone for the weekend, they now own the place, and you have no right to have the police use force of arms to kick them out?

You damned idiots use the most childish arguements to defend the cocksucks.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Old Rocks said:


> So, if someone is living in your home after you have been gone for the weekend, they now own the place, and you have no right to have the police use force of arms to kick them out?
> 
> You damned idiots use the most childish arguements to defend the cocksucks.



Do you really think that has anything to do with anything? Well, yes, you may well be that stupid.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> _"When they are seizing federal land and property? The arms are the difference between trespassing and seditious conspiracy"_
> 
> Not unless they are used in an illegal manner..



There's no 'legal' manner to use arms to seize government property and land. 



> If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States,* or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.*
> 
> 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy



Its that last part you'll want to take a look at. When they took federal property by armed force, they crossed a line.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

They'll be leaving soon to go home and cash their gubt checks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Skylar said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"When they are seizing federal land and property? The arms are the difference between trespassing and seditious conspiracy"_
> 
> Not unless they are used in an illegal manner..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no 'legal' manner to use arms to seize government property and land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States,* or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.*
> 
> 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its that last part you'll want to take a look at. When they took federal property by armed force, they crossed a line.
Click to expand...


*Possessing* arms and/or* bearing* arms is NOT the same as *using* arms or *seizing* by force. This is not really a difficult concept. Maybe you can find someone with an average IQ to explain it to you. .


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

9thIDdoc said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> "This is huge" the only the huge is the prick doing the talking. A local matter that is being taken care of by the locals. No more outsider assholes packing guns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you include the FBI, BLM and treasury agents as "outsider assholes packing guns"?
Click to expand...

No those  are not outsiders they are Law enforcement ....


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

9thIDdoc said:


> ._ The group that went to the refuge with arms and made threats were terrorist.
> _
> Do you claim they were illegally bearing arms? What threats?


to shoot anyone who tries t stop them


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

9thIDdoc said:


> _"When they are seizing federal land and property? The arms are the difference between trespassing and seditious conspiracy"_
> 
> Not unless they are used in an illegal manner..


why are they carrying weapons ?..*.who do they intend to use the weapons on.*..its to stop law enforcers is what those weapons they are carrying are for


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_"No those are not outsiders they are Law enforcement ..."
_
...and if they are not local law enforcement they are "outsiders".

.
_"...to shoot anyone who tries t stop them..."_

Your assumption. You have no more right to assume that you do to assume that all law enforcement are armed because they intend to shoot all innocent civilians they encounter.​


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

9thIDdoc said:


> _"No those are not outsiders they are Law enforcement ..."
> _
> ...and if they are not local law enforcement they are "outsiders".
> 
> .
> _"...to shoot anyone who tries t stop them..."_
> 
> Your assumption. You have no more right to assume that you do to assume that all law enforcement are armed because they intend to shoot all innocent civilians they encounter.​


are you nuts ...don't tell me you do not believe the US Government exists...like the "Cliven Bundy Einstein"


----------



## 9thIDdoc

"...are you nuts ...don't tell me you do not believe the US Government exists...like the "Cliven Bundy Einstein"

I wrote no such thing. Another assumption on your part. Being part of the US government doesn't make them "local".


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"When they are seizing federal land and property? The arms are the difference between trespassing and seditious conspiracy"_
> 
> Not unless they are used in an illegal manner..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no 'legal' manner to use arms to seize government property and land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States,* or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.*
> 
> 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its that last part you'll want to take a look at. When they took federal property by armed force, they crossed a line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Possessing* arms and/or* bearing* arms is NOT the same as *using* arms or *seizing* by force. This is not really a difficult concept. Maybe you can find someone with an average IQ to explain it to you. .
Click to expand...


Show me any distinction in the law between 'possessing' and 'bearing' arms when commiting a crime.

You'll find you imagined it. They were armed when they took the refuge and all the government building by force. That's seditious conspiracy.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> _"No those are not outsiders they are Law enforcement ..."
> _
> ...and if they are not local law enforcement they are "outsiders".
> 
> .
> _"...to shoot anyone who tries t stop them..."_
> 
> Your assumption. You have no more right to assume that you do to assume that all law enforcement are armed because they intend to shoot all innocent civilians they encounter.​



'Hammonds....do you want to die in prison? Or do you want to die here with us, a free man. I want to die a free man'. 

With calls immediately after for armed militia to join them and videos of their guns. 

I'm sure the jury is going to be convinced that by 'die here with us'. ....they were talking about food poisoning.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_Show me any distinction in the law between 'possessing' and 'bearing' arms when commiting a crime._

Didn't say there was one. In some places committing a crime while armed is itself a crime. But not everywhere and I don't know their local law. In any case they have not been tried, much less convicted, of any crime. I doubt that trespassing is considered a very big crime. Millions of illegal aliens are guilty of that one every day.

_"You'll find you imagined it. They were armed when they took the refuge and all the government building by force. That's seditious conspiracy"._

Again, what force do you claim they used?


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> _Show me any distinction in the law between 'possessing' and 'bearing' arms when commiting a crime._
> 
> Didn't say there was one.




Then armed men took these buildings and land by force in a preorganized conspiracy to do so.

That's seditious conspiracy.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Again, what force do you claim they used?


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Again, what force do you claim they used?



Being armed when they broke into it.  And defending it with rifles. Stealing government property. 

With the seditious conspirators making it clear they will defend themselves. Calling for more ARMED militia to join them. And calling for Hammond to 'die here with us, a free man'.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_"Being armed when they broke into it. And defending it with rifles. Stealing government property"_. 

What was stolen? Did they break in? "...defending it with rifles" when? where? how? Have you got anything but rumors and fantasy?  
I doubt that calling for more armed militia is illegal. Even if it was, how many Blacks have been arrested for calling for Whites and/or police officers to be killed lately?


----------



## Old Rocks

Buddy boy, just get your scuzzy ass on down there. There is a reckoning coming, and one way or another, those felons will be removed from our Refuge. So why don't you join the rest of the felons, where you belong.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Some of you guys need to bear in mind that that (public) land is not in NYC. Gun laws are most certainly not the same everywhere. You shouldn't assume they are.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> "Being armed when they broke into it. And defending it with rifles. Stealing government property".
> 
> What was stolen?



You mean the milita man found 30 miles away with a BLM truck from the refugee in Burns wasn't theft? The truck that the militia seized in an armed raid on the refuge?

Keep your head in the sand, 9th. Your willful ignorance doesn't make their crimes magically disappear. Seditious conspiracy alone carries a 20 year sentence.



> Did they break in?



Yes they did. They certainly didn't get an invitation into the buildings they have filmed themselves in. So you have armed burglary. With the morons stupid enough to give irrefutable evidence of it on youtube.



> "...defending it with rifles" when? where? how? Have you got anything but rumors and fantasy?



We've got video. They posted themselves with the rifles at the refuge.

Keep your head in the sand.



> I doubt that calling for more armed militia is illegal.



When they've already taken the facility by armed force, displayed their guns to local authorities and told them they will defend themselves? After calling on the Hammonds to 'die here with us, a free man'?

Shrugs....keep your head in the sand.



> Even if it was, how many Blacks have been arrested for calling for Whites and/or police officers to be killed lately?



Show me a single black man at the refuge calling for whites or police officers to be killed.


----------



## Old Rocks

Look, dumb ass, I live in Oregon. I know that area very well, was raised, for the most part just north of there. And have owned guns now for 60 years. The gun laws nowhere in the US allow one to occupy property that does not belong to you, and threaten to use lethal force, guns, to prevent anyone from throwing you off the property you are trespassing on. The Bundy's are felons, and should be treated as such.


----------



## Skylar

Old Rocks said:


> Look, dumb ass, I live in Oregon. I know that area very well, was raised, for the most part just north of there. And have owned guns now for 60 years. The gun laws nowhere in the US allow one to occupy property that does not belong to you, and threaten to use lethal force, guns, to prevent anyone from throwing you off the property you are trespassing on. The Bundy's are felons, and should be treated as such.



Yeah, but if 9th pretends that none of that ever happened.....then its just a fantasy, right?

Or are you telling us that the world *doesn't* disappear when you close your yes?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Old Rocks said:


> Buddy boy, just get your scuzzy ass on down there. There is a reckoning coming, and one way or another, those felons will be removed from our Refuge. So why don't you join the rest of the felons, where you belong.



Hey, if you're so eager for a confrontation why don't you trot your silly ass right on down there and start making citizen's arrests?


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy boy, just get your scuzzy ass on down there. There is a reckoning coming, and one way or another, those felons will be removed from our Refuge. So why don't you join the rest of the felons, where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, if you're so eager for a confrontation why don't you trot your silly ass right on down there and start making citizen's arrests?
Click to expand...


With all your complaining about blacks threatening whites and cops....why didn't you arrest them?


----------



## Old Rocks

A temptation, indeed. If they piss more people off like Tim Puckett, such might just happen.


----------



## Camp

9thIDdoc said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy boy, just get your scuzzy ass on down there. There is a reckoning coming, and one way or another, those felons will be removed from our Refuge. So why don't you join the rest of the felons, where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, if you're so eager for a confrontation why don't you trot your silly ass right on down there and start making citizen's arrests?
Click to expand...

No one wants to jeopardize the hostages. The two little girls being held as human shields at the refuge have been placed in danger since the start of the crisis and federal authorities are going to extreme measures to prevent any kind of violence that would endanger the kids or even the criminals in control of the refuge.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Old Rocks said:


> Look, dumb ass, I live in Oregon. I know that area very well, was raised, for the most part just north of there. And have owned guns now for 60 years. The gun laws nowhere in the US allow one to occupy property that does not belong to you, and threaten to use lethal force, guns, to prevent anyone from throwing you off the property you are trespassing on. The Bundy's are felons, and should be treated as such.



I suspect that the militia is in fact guilty of using public property without permission. It seems to me that the majority of protesters everywhere are guilty of that, are rarely charged, and I don't think that is a felony in any case. And the mere presence of a gun does not in itself imply any sort of criminal intent. Otherwise the entire police force would be in jail.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, dumb ass, I live in Oregon. I know that area very well, was raised, for the most part just north of there. And have owned guns now for 60 years. The gun laws nowhere in the US allow one to occupy property that does not belong to you, and threaten to use lethal force, guns, to prevent anyone from throwing you off the property you are trespassing on. The Bundy's are felons, and should be treated as such.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect that the militia is in fact guilty of using public property without permission.
Click to expand...


I suspect what you suspect has jack shit to do with the crimes they've commited. And the prosecution they'll be subject to. As you have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy boy, just get your scuzzy ass on down there. There is a reckoning coming, and one way or another, those felons will be removed from our Refuge. So why don't you join the rest of the felons, where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, if you're so eager for a confrontation why don't you trot your silly ass right on down there and start making citizen's arrests?
Click to expand...

Why aren't YOU there in support?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Camp said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy boy, just get your scuzzy ass on down there. There is a reckoning coming, and one way or another, those felons will be removed from our Refuge. So why don't you join the rest of the felons, where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, if you're so eager for a confrontation why don't you trot your silly ass right on down there and start making citizen's arrests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one wants to jeopardize the hostages. The two little girls being held as human shields at the refuge have been placed in danger since the start of the crisis and federal authorities are going to extreme measures to prevent any kind of violence that would endanger the kids or even the criminals in control of the refuge.
Click to expand...


I doubt it. I doubt there are hostages. I also doubt that the federal government  has suddenly become all that concerned about killing non-muslim innocent women and children. Ever hear of Waco or Ruby Ridge?

"A temptation, indeed. If they piss more people off like Tim Puckett, such might just happen."

Don't know who Tim Puckett is  but if he gets pissed off he'll just be joining a few million other pissed of people. Why else do you think those folks are there?


----------



## Camp

The fact that the POS assholes allow little children to live in the middle of this predictably lethal situation should make it crystal clear about the kind of horrible monsters authorities are dealing with at that refuge standoff. Those cowards know that by having innocent kids with them, the feds will not attempt to remove them. They have threatened violence and violence could cause the brutal death of one or more of the little girls and other kids they are using as shields.
It is disturbing that there are people who are willing to come on a public site and defend monsters like that.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

bodecea said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy boy, just get your scuzzy ass on down there. There is a reckoning coming, and one way or another, those felons will be removed from our Refuge. So why don't you join the rest of the felons, where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, if you're so eager for a confrontation why don't you trot your silly ass right on down there and start making citizen's arrests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't YOU there in support?
Click to expand...


That would be because I don't know enough about their cause to fully support it. I just have considerable sympathy for anyone who is fed up with government abuse and willing to take a stand against it. Of course being disabled is a factor.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy boy, just get your scuzzy ass on down there. There is a reckoning coming, and one way or another, those felons will be removed from our Refuge. So why don't you join the rest of the felons, where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, if you're so eager for a confrontation why don't you trot your silly ass right on down there and start making citizen's arrests?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why aren't YOU there in support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be because I don't know enough about their cause to fully support it. I just have considerable sympathy for anyone who is fed up with government abuse and willing to take a stand against it. Of course being disabled is a factor.
Click to expand...


Taking a stand? Where do the children come into that?

Even by your standard, bringing kids into an armed stand off is a loathsome, chickenshit move.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Camp said:


> The fact that the POS assholes allow little children to live in the middle of this predictably lethal situation should make it crystal clear about the kind of horrible monsters authorities are dealing with at that refuge standoff. Those cowards know that by having innocent kids with them, the feds will not attempt to remove them. They have threatened violence and violence could cause the brutal death of one or more of the little girls and other kids they are using as shields.
> It is disturbing that there are people who are willing to come on a public site and defend monsters like that.



Bullshit. How many innocent women and children were shot at Ruby Ridge or burned alive at Waco?


----------



## Camp

9thIDdoc said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that the POS assholes allow little children to live in the middle of this predictably lethal situation should make it crystal clear about the kind of horrible monsters authorities are dealing with at that refuge standoff. Those cowards know that by having innocent kids with them, the feds will not attempt to remove them. They have threatened violence and violence could cause the brutal death of one or more of the little girls and other kids they are using as shields.
> It is disturbing that there are people who are willing to come on a public site and defend monsters like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. How many innocent women and children were shot at Ruby Ridge or burned alive at Waco?
Click to expand...

That is your defense for those monsters to hold innocents at the refuge? It happened before so these guys should be able to do it again is your defense. Some others in the past used innocent women and children so the Malheur monsters, therefore, have a right to do it also.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

The lengths these USMB nutters go to defend those felonious occupiers is astounding.
SMH.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

9thIDdoc said:


> _"Being armed when they broke into it. And defending it with rifles. Stealing government property"_.
> 
> What was stolen? Did they break in? "...defending it with rifles" when? where? how? Have you got anything but rumors and fantasy?
> I doubt that calling for more armed militia is illegal. Even if it was, how many Blacks have been arrested for calling for Whites and/or police officers to be killed lately?


do you have the quote of a specific Black calling for the killing of whites and cops .....we do have tweets from a Police officer calling for protesters to be run over...if that counts
*Cop Tells Drivers to Run Over Black Lives Matter Protesters ...​*


----------



## 9thIDdoc

If the government doesn't want the little girls shot it should just not shoot them. Simple.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that the POS assholes allow little children to live in the middle of this predictably lethal situation should make it crystal clear about the kind of horrible monsters authorities are dealing with at that refuge standoff. Those cowards know that by having innocent kids with them, the feds will not attempt to remove them. They have threatened violence and violence could cause the brutal death of one or more of the little girls and other kids they are using as shields.
> It is disturbing that there are people who are willing to come on a public site and defend monsters like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. How many innocent women and children were shot at Ruby Ridge or burned alive at Waco?
Click to expand...


Who put these children in Oregon in the midst of an armed standoff?

Not the federal government. But the militia. Who initiated the armed raid, occupied government property, defended with arms, and stole government property.

And now bring *children* into the middle of it. 

Using children as human shields is loathsome.


----------



## Old Rocks

When this is over, the parents of those children will be in jail, and the children will have a chance to live a normal life. 

There is simply no excuse for what is happening at the Refuge. Long past time to end it.


----------



## Camp

9thIDdoc said:


> If the government doesn't want the little girls shot it should just not shoot them. Simple.


Thank goodness the big bad old government put you away someplace and agreed to pay you an allowance for the rest of your life. They are horrible aren't they.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

9thIDdoc said:


> If the government doesn't want the little girls shot it should just not shoot them. Simple.


 
Don't you think that maybe that's the reason they're there at all?
You almost get it. One more time around and you'll be there.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

TyroneSlothrop said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Being armed when they broke into it. And defending it with rifles. Stealing government property"_.
> 
> What was stolen? Did they break in? "...defending it with rifles" when? where? how? Have you got anything but rumors and fantasy?
> I doubt that calling for more armed militia is illegal. Even if it was, how many Blacks have been arrested for calling for Whites and/or police officers to be killed lately?
> 
> 
> 
> do you have the quote of a specific Black calling for the killing of whites and cops .....we do have tweets from a Police officer calling for protesters to be run over...if that counts
> *Cop Tells Drivers to Run Over Black Lives Matter Protesters ...*​
Click to expand...


‘*‘**‘Stalk them and kill them,’ Farrakhan says, calling for 10,000 volunteers *to KILL WHITES
Nation of Islam Leader, Louis Farrakhan, addresses the audience at the Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church in in Washington, D.C.
Farrakhan met with local leaders to discuss the upcoming “Million Man March” on October 10, 2015. Farrakhan said it was time to “pull down the American flag”.
Now, he is saying it is time for blacks to kill whites. Farrakhan has been traveling the U.S. for his “Justice, Or Else!” tour.
“Death is sweeter than watching us slaughter each other to the joy of a 400 year old enemy. Death is sweet. The Quran teaches persecution is worse than slaughter.”
“10,000 in the midst of the million … 10,000 fearless men who say death is sweeter than continued life under tyranny”
Farrakhan said the Quran calls for retaliation when “slaves” are oppressed.
“Retaliation is a prescription from God to calm the breasts of those whose children have been slain. So if the federal government will not intercede in our affairs, then we must rise up and kill those who kill us. Stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling,” Farrakhan said.
“So if the federal government will not intercede in our affairs, then we must rise up and kill those who kill us. Stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling.”​


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Camp said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that the POS assholes allow little children to live in the middle of this predictably lethal situation should make it crystal clear about the kind of horrible monsters authorities are dealing with at that refuge standoff. Those cowards know that by having innocent kids with them, the feds will not attempt to remove them. They have threatened violence and violence could cause the brutal death of one or more of the little girls and other kids they are using as shields.
> It is disturbing that there are people who are willing to come on a public site and defend monsters like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. How many innocent women and children were shot at Ruby Ridge or burned alive at Waco?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is your defense for those monsters to hold innocents at the refuge? It happened before so these guys should be able to do it again is your defense. Some others in the past used innocent women and children so the Malheur monsters, therefore, have a right to do it also.
Click to expand...


Where is your proof that innocents are being held there or at those places in the past? Wasn't Ruby Ridge and Waco where those innocents lived.when the government attacked them? Didn't the government initiate those armed stand offs? Again, how big a crime is it for the public to dare to be in a public area? Didn't "Black Lives Matter" protester block public streets and sidewalks during their "protests"?


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that the POS assholes allow little children to live in the middle of this predictably lethal situation should make it crystal clear about the kind of horrible monsters authorities are dealing with at that refuge standoff. Those cowards know that by having innocent kids with them, the feds will not attempt to remove them. They have threatened violence and violence could cause the brutal death of one or more of the little girls and other kids they are using as shields.
> It is disturbing that there are people who are willing to come on a public site and defend monsters like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit. How many innocent women and children were shot at Ruby Ridge or burned alive at Waco?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is your defense for those monsters to hold innocents at the refuge? It happened before so these guys should be able to do it again is your defense. Some others in the past used innocent women and children so the Malheur monsters, therefore, have a right to do it also.
Click to expand...

nobody is holding kids there lol. the refuge is open people have been coming and going, Bundy goes all over the county, he isnt even armed. Old rocks is a hysterical old fag, just ignore him, he.doesnt have a clue.. The bundys were at the fake community meeting staged by grasty. there was another onr planned, grasty determined it would be by invite and ticket onlh. the chickenshit called it off when it became obvious that thebentire county was going to go regardless...


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Being armed when they broke into it. And defending it with rifles. Stealing government property"_.
> 
> What was stolen? Did they break in? "...defending it with rifles" when? where? how? Have you got anything but rumors and fantasy?
> I doubt that calling for more armed militia is illegal. Even if it was, how many Blacks have been arrested for calling for Whites and/or police officers to be killed lately?
> 
> 
> 
> do you have the quote of a specific Black calling for the killing of whites and cops .....we do have tweets from a Police officer calling for protesters to be run over...if that counts
> *Cop Tells Drivers to Run Over Black Lives Matter Protesters ...*​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ‘*‘**‘Stalk them and kill them,’ Farrakhan says, calling for 10,000 volunteers *to KILL WHITES
> Nation of Islam Leader, Louis Farrakhan, addresses the audience at the Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church in in Washington, D.C.
> Farrakhan met with local leaders to discuss the upcoming “Million Man March” on October 10, 2015. Farrakhan said it was time to “pull down the American flag”.
> Now, he is saying it is time for blacks to kill whites. Farrakhan has been traveling the U.S. for his “Justice, Or Else!” tour.
> “Death is sweeter than watching us slaughter each other to the joy of a 400 year old enemy. Death is sweet. The Quran teaches persecution is worse than slaughter.”
> “10,000 in the midst of the million … 10,000 fearless men who say death is sweeter than continued life under tyranny”
> Farrakhan said the Quran calls for retaliation when “slaves” are oppressed.
> “Retaliation is a prescription from God to calm the breasts of those whose children have been slain. So if the federal government will not intercede in our affairs, then we must rise up and kill those who kill us. Stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling,” Farrakhan said.
> “So if the federal government will not intercede in our affairs, then we must rise up and kill those who kill us. Stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death that we are feeling.”​
Click to expand...

Nice deflection.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> A temptation, indeed. If they piss more people off like Tim Puckett, such might just happen.


lolololololol


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Look, dumb ass, I live in Oregon. I know that area very well, was raised, for the most part just north of there. And have owned guns now for 60 years. The gun laws nowhere in the US allow one to occupy property that does not belong to you, and threaten to use lethal force, guns, to prevent anyone from throwing you off the property you are trespassing on. The Bundy's are felons, and should be treated as such.


how odd that they havent been arrested.


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"No those are not outsiders they are Law enforcement ..."
> _
> ...and if they are not local law enforcement they are "outsiders".
> 
> .
> _"...to shoot anyone who tries t stop them..."_
> 
> Your assumption. You have no more right to assume that you do to assume that all law enforcement are armed because they intend to shoot all innocent civilians they encounter.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'Hammonds....do you want to die in prison? Or do you want to die here with us, a free man. I want to die a free man'.
> 
> With calls immediately after for armed militia to join them and videos of their guns.
> 
> I'm sure the jury is going to be convinced that by 'die here with us'. ....they were talking about food poisoning.
Click to expand...

how odd they sent the three percenters home when they offered to set up a perimeter....hmmmmm


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, dumb ass, I live in Oregon. I know that area very well, was raised, for the most part just north of there. And have owned guns now for 60 years. The gun laws nowhere in the US allow one to occupy property that does not belong to you, and threaten to use lethal force, guns, to prevent anyone from throwing you off the property you are trespassing on. The Bundy's are felons, and should be treated as such.
> 
> 
> 
> how odd that they havent been arrested.
Click to expand...

yet....


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"When they are seizing federal land and property? The arms are the difference between trespassing and seditious conspiracy"_
> 
> Not unless they are used in an illegal manner..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no 'legal' manner to use arms to seize government property and land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States,* or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.*
> 
> 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its that last part you'll want to take a look at. When they took federal property by armed force, they crossed a line.
Click to expand...

tsk, tsk, its not govt land. they are only there because the dipshit sheriff asked them to come. Aside from that, they havr zero authority to do squat, and they know it.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, dumb ass, I live in Oregon. I know that area very well, was raised, for the most part just north of there. And have owned guns now for 60 years. The gun laws nowhere in the US allow one to occupy property that does not belong to you, and threaten to use lethal force, guns, to prevent anyone from throwing you off the property you are trespassing on. The Bundy's are felons, and should be treated as such.
> 
> 
> 
> how odd that they havent been arrested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yet....
Click to expand...

when they do, it wil be for misdemeanors. feds got nothing, its fucking hilarious to watch them pick their asses and dress up as protesterd then creep everybody out...like nobody has them figured out already.


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## koshergrl

First shot fired will probably be some poor burns high school kid who thinks he's being stalked by a molester. It'll be an 'undercover' fbi retard and the fight will be on. Old fag better run lest a youngster sees him and assumes the worst...


----------



## Camp

www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/children-present-at-occupied-refuge-with-militants-/


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## Old Rocks

Once again we see what a liar Kosher is. And there are people from all over Oregon going to do protests because of being locked out of the Refuge by these loonies.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Oregon Occupiers May Have Violated Federal Law by Damaging a Native American Archeological Site*


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Once again we see what a liar Kosher is. And there are people from all over Oregon going to do protests because of being locked out of the Refuge by these loonies.


 There are a bout a dozen, half of which are govt shills, parked outside the refuge, "protesting".

Meanwhile, in the real world, outside Old Fag's sick fantasies:

".... agency bureaucrats desire to take over more land....
Farmers and ranchers are taking a stand in the high desert of Eastern Oregon to shed light on the types of government overreach and strong-arm tactics that are also playing out... in Eastern Washington. They are raising awareness of the plight of ruralites who live, work and recreate on the land.
"The Malheur and Turnbull situations are prime examples of what’s wrong with federal management of publicly owned lands. And it was only a matter of time until someone, somewhere, stood up and said no more."

Feds’ overreach is an issue here, too | Daily Sun News mobile version


----------



## koshergrl

Nobody's been locked out of the refuge lol, save perhaps lunatics who show up to cause trouble.  The only people who lock people off our public lands are the corrupt government officials.


----------



## koshergrl

The protesters have repeatedly requested that the Burns/Paiute come to the refuge, find their sacred artifacts, and do whatever the hell they want with them.

They don't want them. They never cared about them to begin with, or they wouldn't have given them to the refuge to throw into unheated, rat infested storage sheds.


----------



## koshergrl

FBI busted impersonating "protestors"...

Chris VanWyck - GOVT FRAUDS BLAST THEIR BULLSHIT AGAIN!... | Facebook

He confronts the guy in the beginning, then has the picture at about 6:35.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again we see what a liar Kosher is. And there are people from all over Oregon going to do protests because of being locked out of the Refuge by these loonies.
Click to expand...

A relative of the convicted and imprisoned arsonists giving a lecture about the Constitution and how the Supreme Court got it all wrong about who owns public lands.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Nobody's been locked out of the refuge lol, save perhaps lunatics who show up to cause trouble.  The only people who lock people off our public lands are the corrupt government officials.


You just acknowledged that the refuge is public land. Now explain who and why these people staying there rent free are deciding who gets to visit and how the public property gets used.


----------



## Old Rocks

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/1471941/full_content

The case was handed back down to the District Court by the Appeals Court. Citing the strong and well known bias of the lower court judge which had decided the case, the judge has been precluded from hearing any future case.
Yesterday evening , Ammon Bundy, leader of the BundyBunch which has now held a vacant federal wildlife refuge sanctuary “hostage” for 19 days, held a meeting to urge local ranchers to tear up their BLM permits and sign a statement refusing to pay the already heavily subsidized grazing fees on BLM lands. Not one rancher of the ten or so that attended agreed, some citing it might actually harm them.
"I personally don't think this can happen this fast," said rancher Buck Taylor of Diamond. "If I just stood up and signed a piece of paper Saturday that would put my family, my ranch in jeopardy."
"You're asking us to give up everything for this rebel cause," said another rancher, Scott Franklin, who lives north of Burns. source​The BundyBunch’s repeated failures in Harney County seem to add an edge of frustration and annoyance to the militant insurrectionists’ verbiage as Harney County residents, Piute Tribe representatives, protesters at the site and around the state and county repeatedly insist they leave. 
The signing ceremony … _s "a once in a lifetime opportunity," Ammon Bundy said. The next time such an opportunity arises, he said: "It'll be war."
"The opportunity is now. The place is Harney County. And you are the people," he said. source_​_
Bundy claims two ranchers, one in New Mexico and another elsewhere in Oregon, have already taken the pledge. The BundyBunch will be holding a signing “ceremony” on Saturday at the refuge. 
Last night’s meeting was held at Crystal Crane Hot Springs, a private tourism business near the small town of Crane, northeast of Burns. Prior to the meeting, the business posted on their website an explanation that they were just trying to let the two sides get together. The explanation was taken down later.
No one from any other “side” was there to speak. The meeting, from all accounts, appeared to be nothing more than a propaganda meeting to support the group’s peculiar constitutional interpretations (led by Montanan Ryan Payne) leading up to the request of local ranchers to tear up their grazing permits. There were about 30 in attendance, including what appears to be a half dozen from the BundyBunch, a purported eight to ten ranchers, press, a few observers, and, I would assume, some FBI undercover agents.
Many people have voiced their very strong opposition to the business allowing the BundyBunch to promote their nonsense and insurrection using their facility and the business’ Facebook page, once the bastion of healthy springs and cute little cabins, is now covered with, well, just about everything.

*Well, there you have Kosher's big meeting. 10 ranchers, and they wouldn't go along with Bundy at all. What a resounding endorsement of his loonyness.*_


----------



## koshergrl

Nobody cares what you say, Old Fag. You've been exposed as a commie partisan hack. The Daily Kos...lol.

Besides which, that wasn't the meeting I referenced. The meeting I am referencing was the one that KrisAnne Hall attended, held just outside the community building that Grasty refused to the community. When he discovered there was going to be a meeting anyway, he elected to go ahead and have a "community" meeting at the county fairgrounds AFTER all, at the exact same time, so there would be no chance of the community showing up and asking embarrassing questions..because he know that all but the government shills, his family, and refugee dingbats would be at that other, truly community meeting.

He tried to do it again with a so-called "public" community meeting scheduled for last night or today. Only for that meeting, he chose a tiny venue that would not be able to hold all those who object to his person, his presence, and federal oppression (in other words, ranchers and landowners from Harney county who do not, for the most part, live in Burns..Burns is where the gov't officials and their families live) He also determined that this community meeting would be limited to 150 souls, and he and his friends would disperse 120 of the tickets to people of their choosing. 30 would supposedly be up for grabs...just enough to make sure that those opposed to the fed presence in Harney county would be outjeered by his hysterical mob and misrepresented by PBS and the Oregonian as fringe lunatics with no support.

The outcry was so substantial, that Grasty scrapped the meeting, probably at the behest of the FBI, who don't really want to have to be asked by the worthless sheriff to step in and mow down hundreds of angry local ranchers.


----------



## Old Rocks

[FONT=Lato, arial]Armed occupiers hold community meeting[/FONT]
The armed occupiers who have taken over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns finally held the community meeting Monday night they'd been planning since last week.
They'd hope to use a building at the fairgrounds, but Harney County denied their rushed and incomplete application. So the meeting was pushed ahead to Monday and moved 30 miles southeast of Burns to Crystal Crane Hot Springs in the small town of Crane.
*Crystal Crane Hot Springs is a nice place, used by many visitors that come to the Refuge. Unfortunately, they have pretty much lost that business. Certainly, for their support of the Bundy's, I will never use the facilities until it changes ownership.*
About 30 people, mostly ranchers, turned out for the meeting.


----------



## Old Rocks

That is the meeting for which there are no videos? Perhaps all who attended were ashamed of themselves? There were plenty of videos taken at the Grasty meeting. 

Nobody is going to 'mow down hundreds of local ranchers'. But eventually, a dozen or so featherless loons at the Refuge may get their martyrdom wish.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> That is the meeting for which there are no videos? Perhaps all who attended were ashamed of themselves? There were plenty of videos taken at the Grasty meeting.
> 
> Nobody is going to 'mow down hundreds of local ranchers'. But eventually, a dozen or so featherless loons at the Refuge may get their martyrdom wish.


 
That's just your wish, old fag. But you're a recognized nutbag commie, so it doesn't matter.

Bundy schooling the fbi negotiator (who will not meet with him in a public place in front of the press) on what the fbi is authorized to do....that is, investigate government bodies and committees. Not set up standing armies to *protect* land that they have no interest in and which does not belong to the feds.

Bundy states that when investigators start to investigate the BLM, fish & game, the Forest Service, and talk to the ranchers, and the conviction of the Hammonds, and when those people start to interview the people about the situation, he will come back to the table.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the meeting for which there are no videos? Perhaps all who attended were ashamed of themselves? There were plenty of videos taken at the Grasty meeting.
> 
> Nobody is going to 'mow down hundreds of local ranchers'. But eventually, a dozen or so featherless loons at the Refuge may get their martyrdom wish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's just your wish, old fag. But you're a recognized nutbag commie, so it doesn't matter.
> 
> Bundy schooling the fbi negotiator (who will not meet with him in a public place in front of the press) on what the fbi is authorized to do....that is, investigate government bodies and committees. Not set up standing armies to *protect* land that they have no interest in and which does not belong to the feds.
Click to expand...


Save of course that the Federal Government's jurisdiction over federal lands isn't based on your pseudo-legal gibberish. But on the Constitution and Federal Law. 

Remember...you have no idea what you're talking about. Making your declarations of what jurisdiction the Federal government has meaningless nonsense.

It boils down to this simple question: What's the use of a 'legal argument' that isn't recognized as valid by the law or the courts? 

As far as I can tell, its only use is feelings of moral justification when sitting in jail.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Well, let's review what has been said on this thread. Kosher starts out claiming that almost everyone in Harney County supported the scuzzy bastards at the Refuge. But the meeting last Tuesday night laid that to rest. A resounding repudiation of the fruitloops. With the fruitloops sitting right there, looking like they were sucking on a lemon.
> 
> So now Kosher is stating that the good people of Burns are all a bunch of freeloaders and commies. So she isn't for local control of the Refuge, because the locals have stated that they like it as it is. The Paiute are not going to dignify the claims of the locos at the Refuge. They also like the present arrangement. The people of Oregon want Bundy and his bunch out. Out by whatever means necessary now.
> 
> Seems Kosher not only doesn't know the mind of the people in Eastern Oregon, she doesn't know the mind of the people of Oregon, period.


 The good people of Burns aren't the majority of Harney County residents. And they are disproportionately employees and supporters of the feds and the refuge.

Try, try again, you retard.

And please, never say "Paiutes" and "dignify" in the same sentence again. Those fisheaters lost all credibility when they hitched their wagons to the Oregonian for a small fee, to trot around the state and pretend to give a shit what happens out on the refuge.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the meeting for which there are no videos? Perhaps all who attended were ashamed of themselves? There were plenty of videos taken at the Grasty meeting.
> 
> Nobody is going to 'mow down hundreds of local ranchers'. But eventually, a dozen or so featherless loons at the Refuge may get their martyrdom wish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's just your wish, old fag. But you're a recognized nutbag commie, so it doesn't matter.
> 
> Bundy schooling the fbi negotiator (who will not meet with him in a public place in front of the press) on what the fbi is authorized to do....that is, investigate government bodies and committees. Not set up standing armies to *protect* land that they have no interest in and which does not belong to the feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Save of course that the Federal Government's jurisdiction over federal lands isn't based on your pseudo-legal gibberish. But on the Constitution and Federal Law.
> 
> Remember...you have no idea what you're talking about. Making your declarations of what jurisdiction the Federal government has meaningless nonsense.
> 
> It boils down to this simple question: What's the use of a 'legal argument' that isn't recognized as valid by the law or the courts?
> 
> As far as I can tell, its only use is feelings of moral justification when sitting in jail.
Click to expand...


The Federal government must abide by the Constitution. In fact spelling out the powers it does and does not have is the primary purpose of the Constitution. The congress cannot legally pass laws at odds with the Constitution (such as giving itself powers not authorized by the Constitution). The courts (a branch of government) cannot legally make judgments counter to what is stated in the Constitution. It is The People who are charged with making the final judgement of what is or is not Constitutional. If enough of The People are convinced the government has exceeded it's lawful authority the FF were in favor of armed conflict if necessary to bring it back into compliance or change it as necessary.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the meeting for which there are no videos? Perhaps all who attended were ashamed of themselves? There were plenty of videos taken at the Grasty meeting.
> 
> Nobody is going to 'mow down hundreds of local ranchers'. But eventually, a dozen or so featherless loons at the Refuge may get their martyrdom wish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's just your wish, old fag. But you're a recognized nutbag commie, so it doesn't matter.
> 
> Bundy schooling the fbi negotiator (who will not meet with him in a public place in front of the press) on what the fbi is authorized to do....that is, investigate government bodies and committees. Not set up standing armies to *protect* land that they have no interest in and which does not belong to the feds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Save of course that the Federal Government's jurisdiction over federal lands isn't based on your pseudo-legal gibberish. But on the Constitution and Federal Law.
> 
> Remember...you have no idea what you're talking about. Making your declarations of what jurisdiction the Federal government has meaningless nonsense.
> 
> It boils down to this simple question: What's the use of a 'legal argument' that isn't recognized as valid by the law or the courts?
> 
> As far as I can tell, its only use is feelings of moral justification when sitting in jail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Federal government must abide by the Constitution.
Click to expand...


The Constitution _according to who?_ The federal judiciary has been delegated with the authority of interpreting the constitution. Says who? Says Federalist Paper 78.

Per the Bundy Thugs, ANY interpretation of the Constitution by ANY one is legally authoritative. That's not our system of laws, nor ever has been.

The Sovereign Citizen horseshit that Bundy is making up has no basis in our law. So I ask again, what's the use of a legal argument that isn't recognized as valid by the law or the constitution.

Apparently, so you can tell yourself that *your* interpretation of the constitution is the only valid one....while you sit in jail.


----------



## jc456

teddyearp said:


> And on that note, all of you .gov lovers and progressives win.  I resign.  All the odds are on the house.  I see that clearly now.  I hope that the FBI just goes in and wipes those at the refuge off the face of the map, guns a blazing; that is what you all want, right?  Because that is all most of seem to want.  Blood.  You could care less about the deeper questions that should have been raised in this thread.  There has, IMHO been a bit of information posted that could have been sifted through for a thinking person to try and truthfully debate this situation, but truthful debate is not part of this section of USMB. Personal attacks and lapping up what the .gov MSM as truth is.
> 
> No, logic is not allowed here.  Truth or any attempt at finding it in between the two different sides of the story are not allowed.  Only personal attacks and bullshit is all.  Tyrone has called me and asshole.  I say "F" you.  Bet that even gets me an infraction.
> 
> All I have to do now is wait for it, wait for it, and see how many tag my post as 'funny' starting with Mr Black and White (aka Tyrone) and on down, and then I know I am right, if only in my mind.
> 
> So, I sign off of this thread and here is me . . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ignoring the rest of the personal attacks on me and those others who have tried and failed to make you folks try to think for yourselves.


libturd volume 101, when you have no logic an no facts utilize tool number one, insults.  Pull out every insult in the world, post up pretty clever little pictures, but by gawd don't you post up a discussion point eva!!!


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *"What gives these people more right to the land than a teacher, who wants to take his/her students to the refuge?" - Kim Jones of Hailey, Idaho*


the fact that they are there and the teachers are not?  hmmm seems clear to me.


----------



## koshergrl

These photos were taken by a community member. She reached out to us because she was followed by the darker suv out past the reservation where she regularly runs her dogs with her children each weekend. She became nervous and worried for her safety and that of her children especially when she stopped and two other vehicles were nearby. She states she asked the men why they were following her, one man in a Dodge truck stated he was lost and needed to turn around. The men i...n the dark suv stated they works for an agency but couldn't tell her who. Her husband arrived after being calling by his frantic wife and grilled the men. They admitted they were fbi agents and that her vehicle matched the description of one of interest. They also stated her son, who was driving, was a larger man and looked suspicious. Now she takes her kids out to this area weekly and was going in the complete opposite direction of the refuge and was doing nothing wrong. These men are purposely scaring residents and harassing them. Any other stories like this please post them.
See More






371 others like this.
661 shares

This is the reality in Harney County.


----------



## koshergrl

"Anne PostI pay taxes, I work long hours. My husband too. What's happening in Burns needs to happen everywhere... you don't kill people for supporting the Constitution. These protesters are not walking around with guns. These lands are being stolen and sold to foreign gvmts. Our national wealth, our kids futures."

Harney County Mall Cops

This is how the Sheriff's Dept says they are not escalating the situation. This is what you will be met with if you want to visit the court house.



199 others like this.
271 shares


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> These photos were taken by a community member. She reached out to us because she was followed by the darker suv out past the reservation where she regularly runs her dogs with her children each weekend. She became nervous and worried for her safety and that of her children especially when she stopped and two other vehicles were nearby. She states she asked the men why they were following her, one man in a Dodge truck stated he was lost and needed to turn around. The men i...n the dark suv stated they works for an agency but couldn't tell her who. Her husband arrived after being calling by his frantic wife and grilled the men. They admitted they were fbi agents and that her vehicle matched the description of one of interest. They also stated her son, who was driving, was a larger man and looked suspicious. Now she takes her kids out to this area weekly and was going in the complete opposite direction of the refuge and was doing nothing wrong. These men are purposely scaring residents and harassing them. Any other stories like this please post them.
> See More
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 371 others like this.
> 661 shares
> 
> This is the reality in Harney County.



Prove it. You're the same person who has lied to us repeatedly and quoted Russian Government propaganda, while making up pseudo-legal gibberish about how the Federal government lacks jurisdiction on Federal land. 

We're gonna need *way* more than you insisting your latest tale 'must be so.


----------



## koshergrl

The feds and local cops blocking the roads....yet all we hear about is how the protesters are blocking roads and preventing access. Interesting, no?


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> "Anne PostI pay taxes, I work long hours. My husband too. What's happening in Burns needs to happen everywhere... you don't kill people for supporting the Constitution. These protesters are not walking around with guns. These lands are being stolen and sold to foreign gvmts. Our national wealth, our kids futures."
> 
> Harney County Mall Cops
> 
> This is how the Sheriff's Dept says they are not escalating the situation. This is what you will be met with if you want to visit the court house.
> 
> 
> 
> 199 others like this.
> 271 shares


There's an armed militia who very much has sported their guns that have invaded the county from out of State. Of course the Sheriff is going to protect his people.

But once again you demonstrate the lie of the Militia Thugs. They claim they want 'local' and 'state' control. Yet they ignore the State, ignore the local authorities, ignore the local people, ignore the local Sheriff, ignore the governor, even ignore the local Tribes.

The only authority that the Militia Thugs believe in is 'themselves'. They insist that any group of folks are 'The People', and can make up any laws they wish.

Sorry, my little Sovereign Citizen. But that's not our system of laws, nor ever has been.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> These photos were taken by a community member. She reached out to us because she was followed by the darker suv out past the reservation where she regularly runs her dogs with her children each weekend. She became nervous and worried for her safety and that of her children especially when she stopped and two other vehicles were nearby. She states she asked the men why they were following her, one man in a Dodge truck stated he was lost and needed to turn around. The men i...n the dark suv stated they works for an agency but couldn't tell her who. Her husband arrived after being calling by his frantic wife and grilled the men. They admitted they were fbi agents and that her vehicle matched the description of one of interest. They also stated her son, who was driving, was a larger man and looked suspicious. Now she takes her kids out to this area weekly and was going in the complete opposite direction of the refuge and was doing nothing wrong. These men are purposely scaring residents and harassing them. Any other stories like this please post them.
> See More
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 371 others like this.
> 661 shares
> 
> This is the reality in Harney County.


Very suspicious and scary. Vehicles with government tags roaming around and checking out people on or around federal properties. How dare they do that.


----------



## Skylar

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> These photos were taken by a community member. She reached out to us because she was followed by the darker suv out past the reservation where she regularly runs her dogs with her children each weekend. She became nervous and worried for her safety and that of her children especially when she stopped and two other vehicles were nearby. She states she asked the men why they were following her, one man in a Dodge truck stated he was lost and needed to turn around. The men i...n the dark suv stated they works for an agency but couldn't tell her who. Her husband arrived after being calling by his frantic wife and grilled the men. They admitted they were fbi agents and that her vehicle matched the description of one of interest. They also stated her son, who was driving, was a larger man and looked suspicious. Now she takes her kids out to this area weekly and was going in the complete opposite direction of the refuge and was doing nothing wrong. These men are purposely scaring residents and harassing them. Any other stories like this please post them.
> See More
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 371 others like this.
> 661 shares
> 
> This is the reality in Harney County.
> 
> 
> 
> Very suspicious and scary. Vehicles with government tags roaming around and checking out people on or around federal properties. How dare they do that.
Click to expand...


"We're only engaged in an armed insurrection and raid on government property. Why are they following us?"


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> These photos were taken by a community member. She reached out to us because she was followed by the darker suv out past the reservation where she regularly runs her dogs with her children each weekend. She became nervous and worried for her safety and that of her children especially when she stopped and two other vehicles were nearby. She states she asked the men why they were following her, one man in a Dodge truck stated he was lost and needed to turn around. The men i...n the dark suv stated they works for an agency but couldn't tell her who. Her husband arrived after being calling by his frantic wife and grilled the men. They admitted they were fbi agents and that her vehicle matched the description of one of interest. They also stated her son, who was driving, was a larger man and looked suspicious. Now she takes her kids out to this area weekly and was going in the complete opposite direction of the refuge and was doing nothing wrong. These men are purposely scaring residents and harassing them. Any other stories like this please post them.
> See More
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 371 others like this.
> 661 shares
> 
> This is the reality in Harney County.
> 
> 
> 
> Very suspicious and scary. Vehicles with government tags roaming around and checking out people on or around federal properties. How dare they do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "We're only engaged in an armed insurrection and raid on government property. Why are they following us?"
Click to expand...

Well, if the fbi knows where the militia dudes are at, why do they need to block roads and follow the locals around?


----------



## koshergrl

Skylar said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> These photos were taken by a community member. She reached out to us because she was followed by the darker suv out past the reservation where she regularly runs her dogs with her children each weekend. She became nervous and worried for her safety and that of her children especially when she stopped and two other vehicles were nearby. She states she asked the men why they were following her, one man in a Dodge truck stated he was lost and needed to turn around. The men i...n the dark suv stated they works for an agency but couldn't tell her who. Her husband arrived after being calling by his frantic wife and grilled the men. They admitted they were fbi agents and that her vehicle matched the description of one of interest. They also stated her son, who was driving, was a larger man and looked suspicious. Now she takes her kids out to this area weekly and was going in the complete opposite direction of the refuge and was doing nothing wrong. These men are purposely scaring residents and harassing them. Any other stories like this please post them.
> See More
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 371 others like this.
> 661 shares
> 
> This is the reality in Harney County.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it. You're the same person who has lied to us repeatedly and quoted Russian Government propaganda, while making up pseudo-legal gibberish about how the Federal government lacks jurisdiction on Federal land.
> 
> We're gonna need *way* more than you insisting your latest tale 'must be so.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what the hell youre talking about...but thats ok because nobody pays attention to you anyway.


----------



## Synthaholic

koshergrl said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> These photos were taken by a community member. She reached out to us because she was followed by the darker suv out past the reservation where she regularly runs her dogs with her children each weekend. She became nervous and worried for her safety and that of her children especially when she stopped and two other vehicles were nearby. She states she asked the men why they were following her, one man in a Dodge truck stated he was lost and needed to turn around. The men i...n the dark suv stated they works for an agency but couldn't tell her who. Her husband arrived after being calling by his frantic wife and grilled the men. They admitted they were fbi agents and that her vehicle matched the description of one of interest. They also stated her son, who was driving, was a larger man and looked suspicious. Now she takes her kids out to this area weekly and was going in the complete opposite direction of the refuge and was doing nothing wrong. These men are purposely scaring residents and harassing them. Any other stories like this please post them.
> See More
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 371 others like this.
> 661 shares
> 
> This is the reality in Harney County.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it. You're the same person who has lied to us repeatedly and quoted Russian Government propaganda, while making up pseudo-legal gibberish about how the Federal government lacks jurisdiction on Federal land.
> 
> We're gonna need *way* more than you insisting your latest tale 'must be so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no idea what the hell youre talking about...but thats ok because nobody pays attention to you anyway.
Click to expand...

Ummm... you're paying attention to Skylar right now.

This is like the old Yogi Berra line: "Nobody goes to that restaurant any more - they're always too crowded".


----------



## Synthaholic

I look forward to these Oregon morons receiving the same fate as the Montana Freemen - remember them?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Montana Freemen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Members of the Montana Freemen and their sentences[edit]*


LeRoy M. Schweitzer - 22 years. Died in federal prison on 20 September 2011 of natural causes, at age 73 years.[11]
Emmett Clark - (Pled guilty) [12] Time served plus 3 years under supervision [13]
Richard Clark - 12 years [14]
James Hance - 5 years, 7 months [15]
Lavon T. Hanson - (Pled guilty with plea bargain), 1 year, 1 day [16]
Dana Dudley Landers - (Pled guilty) [17] 1 year, 9 months with credit for 2 years and 3 months already served
Russell Dean Landers - 11 years, 3 months, and see below[18]
Daniel E. Peterson - 15 years, and see below[19]


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> The feds and local cops blocking the roads....yet all we hear about is how the protesters are blocking roads and preventing access. Interesting, no?





And where is the link?


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## Old Rocks

At some point, they need to start grabbing these fellows every time they leave the refuge. Strange that they could not even get one rancher in the area to sign their little nonsense paper. And I hope they have recordings of the speeches where they talk of war. Be prime evidence for their sedition trial. Promoting armed insurrection is a crime, as is armed occupation of government property.

They need to catch them on the road, blockade them in, and have a couple of fellows step out with M-60's, then they can decide which way they want to go.


----------



## Old Rocks

Same place Kosher's links to videos of the fictional large early meeting is. A rather ample area.


----------



## OldLady

If law enforcement hadn't allowed the Bundy crowd to move in and out freely and get supplies, etc., this would have been over long ago.  LE has run it like a circus and that's what it's become.  I can't believe it's still going on.  FREE THE BIRDS!!


----------



## Old Rocks

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]*Serious trouble ahead for those that support this nonsense, but are dependent on the public for business.*
#boycottcrystalcrane hashtag on Twitter[/FONT]

2 new results​
​*Ace Harvey* ‏@AceRWHarveyIII  Jan 20
@CraneHotSprings Owner's Dan and Denise Kryger support Bundys and their cause. Check Facebook. Only thing to do is #*boycottcrystalcrane*
*1 retweet1 like*
Reply

Retweet

*1*

Like

*1*

More

​*Ace Harvey* ‏@AceRWHarveyIII  Jan 20
@CraneHotSprings you cannot make words disappear #*boycottcrystalcrane*


----------



## Skylar

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The feds and local cops blocking the roads....yet all we hear about is how the protesters are blocking roads and preventing access. Interesting, no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And where is the link?
Click to expand...




Old Rocks said:


> At some point, they need to start grabbing these fellows every time they leave the refuge. Strange that they could not even get one rancher in the area to sign their little nonsense paper. And I hope they have recordings of the speeches where they talk of war. Be prime evidence for their sedition trial. Promoting armed insurrection is a crime, as is armed occupation of government property.
> 
> They need to catch them on the road, blockade them in, and have a couple of fellows step out with M-60's, then they can decide which way they want to go.



The authorities are handling it right. The little 'ceremony' was a half assed act of desperation. They want to provoke a government response. They want to be able to use their kids as human shields against a 'big bad government'. They want to die as 'martyrs'. They're trying to spark a war against the United States.

Instead, they're sitting in the freezing cold eating stale beef jerky. And being mocked mercilessly for preventing people from visiting a bird sanctuary in a season when their are no birds.


----------



## Camp

Skylar said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The feds and local cops blocking the roads....yet all we hear about is how the protesters are blocking roads and preventing access. Interesting, no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And where is the link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> At some point, they need to start grabbing these fellows every time they leave the refuge. Strange that they could not even get one rancher in the area to sign their little nonsense paper. And I hope they have recordings of the speeches where they talk of war. Be prime evidence for their sedition trial. Promoting armed insurrection is a crime, as is armed occupation of government property.
> 
> They need to catch them on the road, blockade them in, and have a couple of fellows step out with M-60's, then they can decide which way they want to go.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The authorities are handling it right. The little 'ceremony' was a half assed act of desperation. They want to provoke a government response. They want to be able to use their kids as human shields against a 'big bad government'. They want to die as 'martyrs'. They're trying to spark a war against the United States.
> 
> Instead, they're sitting in the freezing cold eating stale beef jerky. And being mocked mercilessly for preventing people from visiting a bird sanctuary in a season when their are no birds.
Click to expand...

While it is best known for it's birds, as a wildlife refuge Malheur host an impressive array of mammals in the winter. It also depends on winter hunting to keep the game populations manageable and healthy.


----------



## Dot Com

Another drunken YeeHawdist bites the dust lol

Oregon man joining Bundy militants threatens cops in drunken rant: ‘I will kill all of you’


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Narcissism  anyone ?*
*Ammon Bundy: Militiamen Are 'Actually Protecting Rights Of All'*





 By Lauren Fox   Livewire


----------



## Synthaholic

Y'all Qaeda


----------



## Skylar

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Narcissism  anyone ?*
> *Ammon Bundy: Militiamen Are 'Actually Protecting Rights Of All'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Lauren Fox   Livewire



Ah, I guess that's why Ammon invaded an Oregon country he doesn't live to telling all the local and state authorities, the local people, the local sheriff, the governor, even the local tribes to  go fuck themselves. Because Ammon is 'protecting' their 'rights'. 

Um, randomly making up the law as you go long isn't a 'right'. Ammon's sovereign citizen horseshit has nothing to do with our system of laws nor ever has.


----------



## Skylar

Dot Com said:


> Another drunken YeeHawdist bites the dust lol
> 
> Oregon man joining Bundy militants threatens cops in drunken rant: ‘I will kill all of you’





> “I was a colonel in the United States armed forces,” he says. “Green Beret.”
> He then reaches into his pocket, only for the deputy to stop him by grabbing his arm before telling him, “You’re making me a little bit nervous right now” and motioning for a colleague to assist in handcuffing Stetson.
> As he’s being handcuffed, Stetson says, “I will kill all of you. Don’t believe me? If I go to jail, when I come out, I’ll kill you.”



Well shit....they arrested Colonel Sam Trautman?






But who is going to give John Rambo his orders now?

Sigh....fuckin' Brian Dennehy.


----------



## Skylar

Wait......was this guy's name John "Hannibal" Smith? Were his friends Tempelton, B.A and H.M court martialed for a crime they didn't commit?


----------



## koshergrl

Dot Com said:


> Another drunken YeeHawdist bites the dust lol
> 
> Oregon man joining Bundy militants threatens cops in drunken rant: ‘I will kill all of you’


 Yeah, every person that's arrested by the keystone cops within a 300 miles radius are "identified" as protesters and news releases are given to the enemedia so they can put forth that fake narrative.

The guy is from Hines, he's a well known drunken freak. He has no ties to anybody. He was on a toot and they arrested him for DUI and disturbing the peace, and he made some drunken smart ass comments about joining the protest lol. He's probably a progressive food stamp recipient who spends a portion of each summer over at the refuge cleaning out the porta potties.


----------



## Dot Com

They need to go "on the wagon" LITERALLY and let those townspeople get back to their lives


----------



## bodecea

Dot Com said:


> Another drunken YeeHawdist bites the dust lol
> 
> Oregon man joining Bundy militants threatens cops in drunken rant: ‘I will kill all of you’


Oh....I DO want to know if he was really a Green Beret Colonel.   I really do.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another drunken YeeHawdist bites the dust lol
> 
> Oregon man joining Bundy militants threatens cops in drunken rant: ‘I will kill all of you’
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, every person that's arrested by the keystone cops within a 300 miles radius are "identified" as protesters and news releases are given to the enemedia so they can put forth that fake narrative.
> 
> The guy is from Hines, he's a well known drunken freak. He has no ties to anybody. He was on a toot and they arrested him for DUI and disturbing the peace, and he made some drunken smart ass comments about joining the protest lol. He's probably a progressive food stamp recipient who spends a portion of each summer over at the refuge cleaning out the porta potties.
Click to expand...

"No true Scotsman" excuse.


----------



## Dot Com

bodecea said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another drunken YeeHawdist bites the dust lol
> 
> Oregon man joining Bundy militants threatens cops in drunken rant: ‘I will kill all of you’
> 
> 
> 
> Oh....I DO want to know if he was really a Green Beret Colonel.   I really do.
Click to expand...

True. They are just role playing. They're like kids.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Patriot Goof arrested for Looting*

*An Oregon man involved in the armed standoff has been arrested on multiple charges today*

Source: *dKOS*

Harney County resident Levi Majors answered the Ammon Bundy siren song of freedom and joined up with the armed militants at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge approximately two weeks ago. He appeared on camera for television news crews, helping the militants to remove cameras on the refuge ... 

Levi Majors jumped in and announced that he intended to keep the cameras. As a Harney County resident, he said “I paid for this! These are mine!” Walking away with his prize, he noted “I’ve always wanted one of these!” You can watch him take the cameras at the approximately 5:20 mark of the video .... 

January 26, 2016, Levi Major was arrested and booked for Aggravated Theft - I and Criminal Mischief. At this time there is no confirmation the arrest is related to the stolen cameras. . We’ll update ... 

Read more: An Oregon man involved in the armed standoff has been arrested on multiple charges today


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*The Bundy militants in Oregon are undermining democracy to fight ‘tyranny’*


----------



## Skylar

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Patriot Goof arrested for Looting*
> 
> *An Oregon man involved in the armed standoff has been arrested on multiple charges today*
> 
> Source: *dKOS*
> 
> Harney County resident Levi Majors answered the Ammon Bundy siren song of freedom and joined up with the armed militants at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge approximately two weeks ago. He appeared on camera for television news crews, helping the militants to remove cameras on the refuge ...
> 
> Levi Majors jumped in and announced that he intended to keep the cameras. As a Harney County resident, he said “I paid for this! These are mine!” Walking away with his prize, he noted “I’ve always wanted one of these!” You can watch him take the cameras at the approximately 5:20 mark of the video ....



Well shit. I've always wanted a tank. I should drop by the local US Armory and pick one up! After all, 'I paid for this. Its mine'. 

Laughing....fuckin' sovereign citizens.


----------



## Seawytch

Dot Com said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another drunken YeeHawdist bites the dust lol
> 
> Oregon man joining Bundy militants threatens cops in drunken rant: ‘I will kill all of you’
> 
> 
> 
> Oh....I DO want to know if he was really a Green Beret Colonel.   I really do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True. They are just role playing. They're like kids.
Click to expand...


Military cos play...


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

WHY MALHEUR MATTERS: Every year, birders flock to Harney County for events like this, giving the community a much-needed economic boost. Make sure this year's festival won't be in jeopardy and join the ‪#‎occupyathon‬ today at GoHomeMalheur.org ‪#‎Standup‬ to the ‪#‎OregonStandoff‬


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Harney County Judge Grasty: FBI Needs To Act Against Militants*




Harney County Judge Steve Grasty has canceled a community meeting scheduled for Monday, Jan. 25.

Amanda Peacher/OPB

By Dave Blanchard
OPB
Jan. 25, 2016 4:42 p.m.

The head of Harney County’s government says it’s time for federal law enforcement to increase pressure on armed militants at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Mom accused of child abuse hauls seven kids to Oregon for surreal performance before armed militants*

*Critics of the visit were dismayed at the idea of taking children into an armed occupation.

“You have these impressionable youth that are interacting with these extremists, and they look up to them as some sort of folk heroes when in reality they’re criminals,” said Daryl Johnson, a former senior analyst with Homeland Security. “What type of example is that setting? It’s raising the next generation of extremists.”
*


----------



## Dot Com

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Mom accused of child abuse hauls seven kids to Oregon for surreal performance before armed militants*
> 
> *Critics of the visit were dismayed at the idea of taking children into an armed occupation.*
> 
> *“You have these impressionable youth that are interacting with these extremists, and they look up to them as some sort of folk heroes when in reality they’re criminals,” said Daryl Johnson, a former senior analyst with Homeland Security. “What type of example is that setting? It’s raising the next generation of extremists.”*


that is sooo cringe-worthy. rw deadbeats


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Reports coming in of arrests and shots fired in connection with the standoff at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Oregon.*

KATU television in Portland is reporting Ammon Bundy has been arrested:

KATU News has learned the leader of the armed occupation at Malheur Wildlife Refuge has been arrested, along with three other individuals Tuesday evening.
Sources tell KATU News there was some sort of engagement involving shots fired as the militia group was on its way to a meeting in John Day.
More soon ...
*Breaking In Oregon Standoff*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Oregon Standoff Update: Ammon Bundy In Custody After Possible Shots Fired, Casualties [VIDEO]*
Oregon Standoff Update: Ammon Bundy In Custody After Possible Shots Fired, Casualties [VIDEO]


----------



## AceRothstein

Hopefully Bundy caught some lead.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

KEZI.com | Ammon Bundy Arrested

BURNS, Ore. -- Ammon Bundy and three others have been arrested near the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and shots were fired, ABC News reports.

The Harney District Hospital in Burns is on lockdown, CNN reports.

Highway 395, near Burns, is closed near milepost 67 at the intersection with Highway 20, according to the Oregon Department of Transportation's website.


Bundy is a son of rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a 2014 Nevada standoff with the federal government over grazing rights.

We will update this story as more information becomes available.






- See more at: KEZI.com | Ammon Bundy Arrested


----------



## teddyearp

BULLDOG said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That idiot is trying to use the same lame talking points that the idiots here are trying to use. It just doesn't work the way she wants it to.
Click to expand...


That's just funny, since the whole crowd applauded all of her points.  Makes you wonder.


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> Crook County is not Harney County, and what would a meeting there have to do with the problem at the Refuge? The people of Burns and Harney county have spoken with a near unanimous voice, they want the assholes out of their county.



Oh for fucks sake, Old Socks, the underlying problem is the .gov over reach and mis management of all of our public lands.  I am sure that this is not clo9se enough to Harney County for you either:


And what about the situation with the monument that the .gov wants to create in Malheur County right next door?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Ammon Bundy is the leader of a group of protesters occupying a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon.
(CNN)Federal authorities arrested Ammon Bundy, the leader of a group of protesters occupying a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon, and several of his followers in a traffic stop Tuesday, a law enforcement official told CNN.

Shots were fired after authorities made the stop, the source said. It's not clear who fired first.

Developing story - more to come

CNN's Evan Perez contributed to this report.
Oregon protest leader Ammon Bundy is arrested - CNN.com


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> <snip> And likely that ownership would be Saudi or Chinese.



And that in itself is where you lose the whole argument.  Unfounded and unable to document with clear factual evidence.


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *where does Ammon get his authority to question the FBI...he gets it from the guns he struts around with...how about disarming him and putting him in a cage.....lets see how much authority he has then........*



Please show me one, just one picture of Ammon Bundy strutting around with a gun.


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> Look dummkopf, they stated that they would shoot anyone trying to kick them out of the Refuge. And they have enough artillery to make it interesting. Occupying a Federal installation by force of arms is the definition of sedition.



They stated that they would protect themselves if attacked. But I really have to ask you this.

What actual artillery pieces do they have to make it interesting?  Because the last time I checked, this is the definition of "artillery":



> *Artillery* is a class of large military weapons built to fire munitions* far beyond the range and power of infantry's small arms. *Early artillery development focused on the ability to breach fortifications, and led to heavy, fairly immobile siege engines. As technology improved, lighter, more mobile field artillery developed for battlefield use. This development continues today; modern self-propelled artillery vehicles are highly mobile weapons of great versatility providing the largest share of an army's total firepower.



Link:  Artillery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*That is a nice cowboy outfit you are wearing Ammon...be a shame if it ended full of holes and powder burns....*


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ._ The group that went to the refuge with arms and made threats were terrorist.
> _
> Do you claim they were illegally bearing arms? What threats?
> 
> 
> 
> to shoot anyone who tries t stop them
Click to expand...


hey sheep man, that's not what they have said.  Defend themselves.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

HARNEY COUNTY, Ore. — One person is dead and several others, including Oregon occupation leader Ammon Bundy, were detained following a confrontation with the FBI and state police Tuesday night.

It all began with a traffic stop while Bundy and some of his followers were en route to a community meeting in John Day, about 70 miles away.

Shots were fired after FBI agents, Oregon State troopers and other law enforcement agencies made the stop.

*Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy, Brian Cavalier, Shawna Cox and Ryan W. Payne were arrested during the stop. One person, who was the subject of a federal probable cause arrest died. It's unclear who fired first.*

The arrests come on the heels of the 25th day of the refuge occupation.
One dead, Bundys arrested after confrontation with FBI on highway


----------



## teddyearp

Dot Com said:


> Another drunken YeeHawdist bites the dust lol
> 
> Oregon man joining Bundy militants threatens cops in drunken rant: ‘I will kill all of you’



Yes, granted this guy is an idiot, I only wonder about why the cops do not know how to set up their equipment properly (i.e., time stamp) if it is to ever be used as evidence.  Or maybe they don't have to worry about that in Harney County. Who knows how many other inconsistencies in ANY evidence that the 'prosecution' puts up that the Judge will ignore?  What's his name again?

And nice that you know how to really compartmentalize and give these guys a name.  Did you think of it yourself?


----------



## BULLDOG

teddyearp said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That idiot is trying to use the same lame talking points that the idiots here are trying to use. It just doesn't work the way she wants it to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's just funny, since the whole crowd applauded all of her points.  Makes you wonder.
Click to expand...


Nothing to wonder about. It was a room full of idiots.


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> <snip>Levi Majors



Funny, a google search for his name and even choosing 'news' turns up nothing about this guy as of the date and time of this post (01/26/2016 7:28PST):

Levi Majors - Google Search

And then from your article:



> Levi Majors name no longer appears Harney County Jail Inmate Roster. He has already been released.



So two plus two must equal, NOT!


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Anthony De Rosa* ‏@*AntDeRosa*  29m29 minutes ago
FBI statement on #*Oregonstandoff*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*LaVoy Finicum — the Oregon militant who gained fame for conducting a television interview from beneath a blue tarp — has reportedly been shot and killed by law enforcement officers.*
*



*
*LaVoy Finicum — the Oregon militant beneath the blue tarp — killed in police shootout: reports*


----------



## Carla_Danger

The reign of terror is over.


----------



## Synthaholic

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *LaVoy Finicum — the Oregon militant who gained fame for conducting a television interview from beneath a blue tarp — has reportedly been shot and killed by law enforcement officers.*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *LaVoy Finicum — the Oregon militant beneath the blue tarp — killed in police shootout: reports*


Awesome sauce!!!!!


----------



## Synthaholic




----------



## Faun

Carla_Danger said:


> The reign of terror is over.


Finally. Took way longer than it should have.

I hope they charge Bundy with murder for the person who died.


----------



## Skylar

teddyearp said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ._ The group that went to the refuge with arms and made threats were terrorist.
> _
> Do you claim they were illegally bearing arms? What threats?
> 
> 
> 
> to shoot anyone who tries t stop them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey sheep man, that's not what they have said.  Defend themselves.
Click to expand...


Yeah, when you 'defend yourself' from a lawful probable cause arrest, that's called attempted murder.


----------



## Skylar

Faun said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reign of terror is over.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally. Took way longer than it should have.
> 
> I hope they charge Bundy with murder for the person who died.
Click to expand...


The Feds handled it right. They waited for their opportunity and took it. They even made Ammon comfortable with leaving the refuge. And conducted the arrest away from the kids the militia was using as human shields. 

Its unfortunate that anyone had to die. The FBI went out of their way to keep these wanna be martyrs alive.


----------



## Faun

Skylar said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reign of terror is over.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally. Took way longer than it should have.
> 
> I hope they charge Bundy with murder for the person who died.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Feds handled it right. They waited for their opportunity and took it. They even made Ammon comfortable with leaving the refuge. And conducted the arrest away from the kids the militia was using as human shields.
> 
> Its unfortunate that anyone had to die. The FBI went out of their way to keep these wanna be martyrs alive.
Click to expand...

When someone is killed during the commission of a felony, the surviving assailants can be charged with murder.  If that's the case here, I hope they throw the book at Bundy.


----------



## BULLDOG

Faun said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reign of terror is over.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally. Took way longer than it should have.
> 
> I hope they charge Bundy with murder for the person who died.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Feds handled it right. They waited for their opportunity and took it. They even made Ammon comfortable with leaving the refuge. And conducted the arrest away from the kids the militia was using as human shields.
> 
> Its unfortunate that anyone had to die. The FBI went out of their way to keep these wanna be martyrs alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When someone is killed during the commission of a felony, the surviving assailants can be charged with murder.  If that's the case here, I hope they throw the book at Bundy.
Click to expand...



I'm sure they won't pass up anything to charge him with. I suspect this arrest might be an opportunity to get his daddy's attention too. I hope so.


----------



## koshergrl

The protesters were denied a public venue in harney county so Grant county invited them and the sheriff asserted his intent to protect the people from federal harassment and assault. So the feds ambushed bundy en route and killed the old man lavoy finnicum (I think thats his last name spelling). They were servi g a warrant on someone in one of two vehicles.....the guy who got shot was in the second vehicle. http://www.bluemountaineagle.com/Local_News/20160126/town-hall-carries-on-in-john-day


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> The protesters were denied a public venue in harney county so Grant county invited them and the sheriff asserted his intent to protect the people from federal harassment and assault. So the feds ambushed bundy en route and killed the old man lavoy finnicum (I think thats his last name spelling).By all accounts he was a gentle and soft spoken man, and was not armed when he was shot three times, at least once in the face, while kneeling before the fedshttp://www.bluemountaineagle.com/Local_News/20160126/town-hall-carries-on-in-john-day





Of course he was armed, stupid.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The protesters were denied a public venue in harney county so Grant county invited them and the sheriff asserted his intent to protect the people from federal harassment and assault. So the feds ambushed bundy en route and killed the old man lavoy finnicum (I think thats his last name spelling).By all accounts he was a gentle and soft spoken man, and was not armed when he was shot three times, at least once in the face, while kneeling before the fedshttp://www.bluemountaineagle.com/Local_News/20160126/town-hall-carries-on-in-john-day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he was armed, stupid.
Click to expand...

it would have been really funny to see a guy with no arms being arrested.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Faun said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reign of terror is over.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally. Took way longer than it should have.
> 
> I hope they charge Bundy with murder for the person who died.
Click to expand...



I think they handled it just right. They needed to arrest these morons away from the women and children they were planning on hiding behind.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Carla_Danger said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The reign of terror is over.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally. Took way longer than it should have.
> 
> I hope they charge Bundy with murder for the person who died.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I think they handled it just right. They needed to arrest these morons away from the women and children they were planning on hiding behind.
Click to expand...


Good point.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The protesters were denied a public venue in harney county so Grant county invited them and the sheriff asserted his intent to protect the people from federal harassment and assault. So the feds ambushed bundy en route and killed the old man lavoy finnicum (I think thats his last name spelling).By all accounts he was a gentle and soft spoken man, and was not armed when he was shot three times, at least once in the face, while kneeling before the fedshttp://www.bluemountaineagle.com/Local_News/20160126/town-hall-carries-on-in-john-day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he was armed, stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ammond wasn't, in the other car. Who knows. Certainly not you. The fbi didn't say he was armed. The one guy they didn't arrest says that he ran towards the agents...though he also states he didn't see it. But the women in Levoy's vehicle say different.
Click to expand...


You may want to call the FBI and tell them that they have no jurisdiction over federal land. As they seem to be under the distinct impression that they do.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The protesters were denied a public venue in harney county so Grant county invited them and the sheriff asserted his intent to protect the people from federal harassment and assault. So the feds ambushed bundy en route and killed the old man lavoy finnicum (I think thats his last name spelling).By all accounts he was a gentle and soft spoken man, and was not armed when he was shot three times, at least once in the face, while kneeling before the fedshttp://www.bluemountaineagle.com/Local_News/20160126/town-hall-carries-on-in-john-day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he was armed, stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ammond wasn't, in the other car. Who knows. Certainly not you. The fbi didn't say he was armed. The one guy they didn't arrest says that he ran towards the agents...though he also states he didn't see it. But the women in Levoy's vehicle say different.
Click to expand...

You could have just said you didn't no nothin'.  Keep digging around, maybe you will find some cool gossip.


----------



## Skylar

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The protesters were denied a public venue in harney county so Grant county invited them and the sheriff asserted his intent to protect the people from federal harassment and assault. So the feds ambushed bundy en route and killed the old man lavoy finnicum (I think thats his last name spelling).By all accounts he was a gentle and soft spoken man, and was not armed when he was shot three times, at least once in the face, while kneeling before the fedshttp://www.bluemountaineagle.com/Local_News/20160126/town-hall-carries-on-in-john-day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he was armed, stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ammond wasn't, in the other car. Who knows. Certainly not you. The fbi didn't say he was armed. The one guy they didn't arrest says that he ran towards the agents...though he also states he didn't see it. But the women in Levoy's vehicle say different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could have just said you didn't no nothin'.  Keep digging around, maybe you will find some cool gossip.
Click to expand...


Its Kosh. You could man a battleship with what she doesn't know. Thankfully, she'll just make up any detail she doesn't have.

Laughing...perhaps she'll give us the perspective of the Russian Government again by quoting Sputnik News.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The protesters were denied a public venue in harney county so Grant county invited them and the sheriff asserted his intent to protect the people from federal harassment and assault. So the feds ambushed bundy en route and killed the old man lavoy finnicum (I think thats his last name spelling).By all accounts he was a gentle and soft spoken man, and was not armed when he was shot three times, at least once in the face, while kneeling before the fedshttp://www.bluemountaineagle.com/Local_News/20160126/town-hall-carries-on-in-john-day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he was armed, stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ammond wasn't, in the other car. Who knows. Certainly not you. The fbi didn't say he was armed. The one guy they didn't arrest says that he ran towards the agents...though he also states he didn't see it. But the women in Levoy's vehicle say different.
Click to expand...




Jezus Khrist, the man wouldn't remove his guns to shower. He had to take sponge baths. Take your meds and get back in bed.  LaVoy said he wouldn't be taken alive, and this is the way he decided to check out. He got what he wanted.

C'est la vie


----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The protesters were denied a public venue in harney county so Grant county invited them and the sheriff asserted his intent to protect the people from federal harassment and assault. So the feds ambushed bundy en route and killed the old man lavoy finnicum (I think thats his last name spelling).By all accounts he was a gentle and soft spoken man, and was not armed when he was shot three times, at least once in the face, while kneeling before the fedshttp://www.bluemountaineagle.com/Local_News/20160126/town-hall-carries-on-in-john-day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he was armed, stupid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ammond wasn't, in the other car. Who knows. Certainly not you. The fbi didn't say he was armed. The one guy they didn't arrest says that he ran towards the agents...though he also states he didn't see it. But the women in Levoy's vehicle say different.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jezus Khrist, the man wouldn't remove his guns to shower. He had to take sponge baths. Take your meds and get back in bed.  LaVoy said he wouldn't be taken alive, and this is the way he decided to check out. He got what he wanted.
> 
> C'est la vie
Click to expand...

 
Liar.


----------



## koshergrl

Victoria, the girl in the car says they shot the car at least 100 times, that they shot at them while they had their hands out the windows and were asking to talk to the Sheriff. No aggression at all. LaVoy came out of the car, hands up, and said "Are you just going to shoot me then?" Then they did. And she said that once he was on the ground, they continued to shoot him.

People are concerned that she's going to be killed next. She said they stopped in the middle of the road, and everybody put their hands out of the window, and asked to talk to the sheriff, and that's when the feds started shooting at them. After being shot at Ryan exited the car, and the feds continued to shoot at the car and so they drove off because they thought they were going to die.

NONE OF THEM shot or showed a weapon. They did not return fire, they didn't threaten to fire on the feds. They pulled over when they were stopped, they asked to talk to the sheriff.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


>





End Times New Report.


ROFL!


----------



## koshergrl

It's telling that Carla thinks it's funny, says a lot about the character of the people who support federal oppression.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Victoria, the girl in the car says they shot the car at least 100 times, that they shot at them while they had their hands out the windows and were asking to talk to the Sheriff. No aggression at all. LaVoy came out of the car, hands up, and said "Are you just going to shoot me then?" Then they did. And she said that once he was on the ground, they continued to shoot him.
> 
> People are concerned that she's going to be killed next. She said they stopped in the middle of the road, and everybody put their hands out of the window, and asked to talk to the sheriff, and that's when the feds started shooting at them. After being shot at Ryan exited the car, and the feds continued to shoot at the car and so they drove off because they thought they were going to die.
> 
> NONE OF THEM shot or showed a weapon. They did not return fire,Liarthey didn't threaten to fire on the feds. They pulled over when they were stopped, they asked to talk to the sheriff.


Liar


----------



## Vandalshandle

There are going to be a lot of driverless pickumup trucks in Oregon tonight....


----------



## Vandalshandle

Finally, the feds realized that, by enabling these nuts, things only continue to spiral out of control. This should have been done weeks ago. Some half assed cowboy gets his panties in a wad as a result? Tough shit.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Victoria, the girl in the car says they shot the car at least 100 times, that they shot at them while they had their hands out the windows and were asking to talk to the Sheriff. No aggression at all. LaVoy came out of the car, hands up, and said "Are you just going to shoot me then?" Then they did. And she said that once he was on the ground, they continued to shoot him.
> 
> People are concerned that she's going to be killed next. She said they stopped in the middle of the road, and everybody put their hands out of the window, and asked to talk to the sheriff, and that's when the feds started shooting at them. After being shot at Ryan exited the car, and the feds continued to shoot at the car and so they drove off because they thought they were going to die.
> 
> NONE OF THEM shot or showed a weapon. They did not return fire, they didn't threaten to fire on the feds. They pulled over when they were stopped, they asked to talk to the sheriff.


Victoria is apparently too stupid to know there is going to be TONS of video of this.   Dash cams, body cams, cell phones, etc.    

But you just keep on digging, eh?


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> It's telling that Carla thinks it's funny, says a lot about the character of the people who support federal oppression.


We know you are lying...have been lying...and will continue to lie about being "in the know", Allie.   That says a lot about you and your lack of firm convictions.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Shots were fired from both sides.


----------



## Skylar

Vandalshandle said:


> Finally, the feds realized that, by enabling these nuts, things only continue to spiral out of control. This should have been done weeks ago. Some half assed cowboy gets his panties in a wad as a result? Tough shit.



And the Bundy Thugs demonstrate why Cosplaying Cowboys with real bullets probably isn't a good idea.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Apparently, there are maybe 6 more still holding out in the refuge building, who maintain that they will die rather than leave. If that is their desire, so be it, although it is bound to create quite a mess. Oh well....


----------



## Skylar

Vandalshandle said:


> Apparently, there are maybe 6 more still holding out in the refuge building, who maintain that they will die rather than leave. If that is their desire, so be it, although it is bound to create quite a mess. Oh well....



Wait them out. Cut all power and gas. Serenade them at all hours with the vocal stylings of Enrico Pallazzo.

Or knowing the shit kicking, hee-haw demographic that most likely make up the stragglers, perhaps the early work of NWA would be appropriate.


----------



## Synthaholic

9thIDdoc said:


> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.


----------



## Synthaholic

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's telling that Carla thinks it's funny, says a lot about the character of the people who support federal oppression.
> 
> 
> 
> We know you are lying...have been lying...and will continue to lie about being "in the know", Allie.   *That says a lot about you and your lack of firm convictions*.
Click to expand...

Or integrity!


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> It's telling that Carla thinks it's funny, says a lot about the character of the people who support federal oppression.





What oppression, dingbat? That idiot, LaVoy, could have had a great life. He was only breaking even from his cows on the ranch, yet he was making up to $100,000 a year off his child foster slaves. He didn't even have to work for a living. That income afforded him to run around the country playing cowboy militia man, until the Catholic Charities realized that it might not be a great atmosphere for children to be living with a felon.

Keep your Government hands off my Foster Kid subsidies?

What oppression, dingbat?

I have no intention of spending any of my days in a concrete box.--LaVoy Finicum

So be it.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.


Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?

And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Victoria, the girl in the car says they shot the car at least 100 times, that they shot at them while they had their hands out the windows and were asking to talk to the Sheriff. No aggression at all. LaVoy came out of the car, hands up, and said "Are you just going to shoot me then?" Then they did. And she said that once he was on the ground, they continued to shoot him.


*Hands up, don't shoot!!!*


----------



## Carla_Danger

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
Click to expand...



Pay no attention to 9THDUMMY, who thinks he's living at the O.K. Corral.


----------



## charwin95

koshergrl said:


> Victoria, the girl in the car says they shot the car at least 100 times, that they shot at them while they had their hands out the windows and were asking to talk to the Sheriff. No aggression at all. LaVoy came out of the car, hands up, and said "Are you just going to shoot me then?" Then they did. And she said that once he was on the ground, they continued to shoot him.
> 
> People are concerned that she's going to be killed next. She said they stopped in the middle of the road, and everybody put their hands out of the window, and asked to talk to the sheriff, and that's when the feds started shooting at them. After being shot at Ryan exited the car, and the feds continued to shoot at the car and so they drove off because they thought they were going to die.
> 
> NONE OF THEM shot or showed a weapon. They did not return fire, they didn't threaten to fire on the feds. They pulled over when they were stopped, they asked to talk to the sheriff.



Yeah right. Statement coming from these assholes. She might as well say several FBI rape me while being shot at.. 
They shot the car at least 100 times. Was she standing out there on the side counting how many shots were fired? 
Bullets will cut like butter... Then we should see 9 of these assholes dead instead of just one.


----------



## Dot Com

I'd have to throw the book at them


----------



## Dot Com

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> End Times New Report.
> 
> 
> ROFL!
Click to expand...

Allie


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
Click to expand...


How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Carla_Danger said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Pay no attention to 9THDUMMY, who thinks he's living at the O.K. Corral.
Click to expand...


9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.


----------



## Faun

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
Click to expand...

Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.

I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Faun said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
Click to expand...


What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
Click to expand...

Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.

I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?


----------



## Carla_Danger

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Pay no attention to 9THDUMMY, who thinks he's living at the O.K. Corral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.
Click to expand...




I don't know that. I don't know him personally. On this forum, he's only a poster.


----------



## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
Click to expand...



There's not going to be a Civil War, ding dong. Those YeeHawdists at the Turd Sanctuary got mostly dildos for support, instead of snacks. There's not going to be a Civil War over a hand full of idiots in Oregon.


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## 9thIDdoc

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
Click to expand...


My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?


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## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
Click to expand...

You want me to answer your question while you refuse to answer mine??


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## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
Click to expand...




I think you should stick to reenacting the the Civil War over in Alabama.  Maybe you can hook up with these guys.


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## 9thIDdoc

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> 
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want me to answer your question while you refuse to answer mine??
Click to expand...


Sorry, I thought the answer was obvious from my question. I think all sides are lawbreakers therefore it would not be possible to take the side of a non-lawbreaker. Clear?


----------



## TheOldSchool

Oregon Militant LaVoy Finicum Isn't a Heroic Martyr, He's Just a Dead Idiot - The Daily Banter


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Carla_Danger said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> 
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should stick to reenacting the the Civil War over in Alabama.  Maybe you can hook up with these guys.
Click to expand...


And I think you would do well to leave the thinking to someone who has actually done it before.


----------



## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should stick to reenacting the the Civil War over in Alabama.  Maybe you can hook up with these guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I think you would do well to leave the thinking to someone who has actually done it before.
Click to expand...




I think anyone who announces that they are armed and really pissed, prolly shouldn't be allowed to own guns.


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## Carla_Danger

TheOldSchool said:


> Oregon Militant LaVoy Finicum Isn't a Heroic Martyr, He's Just a Dead Idiot - The Daily Banter





A deliberate case of suicide by cop.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You want me to answer your question while you refuse to answer mine??
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, I thought the answer was obvious from my question. I think all sides are lawbreakers therefore it would not be possible to take the side of a non-lawbreaker. Clear?
Click to expand...

No, it's not clear. What law(s) do you think the FBI broke? The only law-breakers I'm aware of were those who were arrested.


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## Old Rocks

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
Click to expand...

Stupid ass, the felons were occupying by force of arms, land that belongs to all of us. The FBI and State Police were enforcing the law. They are not law breakers, the felons are.


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## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Buddy boy, just get your scuzzy ass on down there. There is a reckoning coming, and one way or another, those felons will be removed from our Refuge. So why don't you join the rest of the felons, where you belong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, if you're so eager for a confrontation why don't you trot your silly ass right on down there and start making citizen's arrests?
Click to expand...




Why? That's what the FBI is for, and they seem to be doing a good job.


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## Dot Com

Carla_Danger said:


> TheOldSchool said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon Militant LaVoy Finicum Isn't a Heroic Martyr, He's Just a Dead Idiot - The Daily Banter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A deliberate case of suicide by cop.
Click to expand...

Exactly!!!


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## WildBillKelsoe

9thIDdoc said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
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> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should stick to reenacting the the Civil War over in Alabama.  Maybe you can hook up with these guys.
> 
> 
> Wrong side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I think you would do well to leave the thinking to someone who has actually done it before.
Click to expand...




Carla_Danger said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> 
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should stick to reenacting the the Civil War over in Alabama.  Maybe you can hook up with these guys.
Click to expand...


----------



## 9thIDdoc




----------



## 9thIDdoc

Old Rocks said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?
> 
> 
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid ass, the felons were occupying by force of arms, land that belongs to all of us. The FBI and State Police were enforcing the law. They are not law breakers, the felons are.
Click to expand...


You are entitled to your opinion no matter how idiotic it is.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your attempt to derail the conversation is noted and dismissed.
> 
> I responded to a poster fantasizing that this event could instigate a civil war. I'm just interested to know who he/she thinks would be on the side of the law-breakers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid ass, the felons were occupying by force of arms, land that belongs to all of us. The FBI and State Police were enforcing the law. They are not law breakers, the felons are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are entitled to your opinion no matter how idiotic it is.
Click to expand...

Still waiting.... what law(s) did the FBI break?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Keep waiting. If you were paying attention you wouldn't have to ask and it's not my job to educate you. Your opinion is not important to me and I've already given mine.


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## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Keep waiting. If you were paying attention you wouldn't have to ask and it's not my job to educate you. Your opinion is not important to me and I've already given mine.


Translation: The FBI broke no law(s)

Thanks for confirming what I already knew. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Also, thanks for [tacitly] revealing why you won't answer my question.

Since you won't answer it, I'll answer it for you .... _ conservatives would be on the side of the law-breakers._


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## WildBillKelsoe

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think there'll be any sides that _aren't_ lawbreakers?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid ass, the felons were occupying by force of arms, land that belongs to all of us. The FBI and State Police were enforcing the law. They are not law breakers, the felons are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are entitled to your opinion no matter how idiotic it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still waiting.... what law(s) did the FBI break?
Click to expand...


None. I'll remember this post the next time you scream police brutality.


----------



## 12icer

The constitutional right IE the first amendment right to peaceful assembly. You liberals have no problem with some people having violent riots, but when others peacefully assemble on PUBLIC land, and cause no damage, It is okay to harass, and kill them, It is also fine to murder 70 women and children, and entrap a man kill his wife dog, and young teen son, all under liberal administrations too, not all dims but NWO liberals. I would call that the same thing as if it were one of your beloved thugs, Lets hear from the Atty General about investigating the actions of these "officers" then !!! There is NO statute of limitations on the first amendment freedom to peacefully assemble.


----------



## Faun

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said nothing of sides in such a war being law-breakers.
> 
> I asked you which side would side with the law-breakers?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My question stands. If all sides are lawbreakers how would anyone NOT side with a lawbreaker?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Stupid ass, the felons were occupying by force of arms, land that belongs to all of us. The FBI and State Police were enforcing the law. They are not law breakers, the felons are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are entitled to your opinion no matter how idiotic it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Still waiting.... what law(s) did the FBI break?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> None. I'll remember this post the next time you scream police brutality.
Click to expand...

Your deflection is noted.


----------



## Faun

12icer said:


> The constitutional right IE the first amendment right to peaceful assembly. You liberals have no problem with some people having violent riots, but when others peacefully assemble on PUBLIC land, and cause no damage, It is okay to harass, and kill them, It is also fine to murder 70 women and children, and entrap a man kill his wife dog, and young teen son, all under liberal administrations too, not all dims but NWO liberals.


Peaceful assembly is one thing.

Trespassing and illegally seizing public property is another.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> Keep waiting. If you were paying attention you wouldn't have to ask and it's not my job to educate you. Your opinion is not important to me and I've already given mine.


So...the FBI didn't break any laws.  Okey Dokey.


----------



## 12icer

Did they riot did they destroy any property they impede anyones right to use the facility. It was just as much their property as ANYONE elses. The idea that you are seizing the property did not apply to occupy wall street I guess. I consider assault and murder crimes.


----------



## Faun

12icer said:


> It is okay to harass, and kill them, It is also fine to murder 70 women and children, and entrap a man kill his wife dog, and young teen son, all under liberal administrations too, not all dims but NWO liberals.


The Bush administration was not a "Liberal administration." WTF is wrong with you freaks?


----------



## Faun

12icer said:


> Did they riot did they destroy any property they impede anyones right to use the facility. It was just as much their property as ANYONE elses. The idea that you are seizing the property did not apply to occupy wall street I guess.


Whether or not they damaged the premises is irrelevant. They illegaly seized it and were trespassing. When given the lawful order to vacate the premises, they refused.

They broke the law and were arrested.


----------



## 12icer

AND how many times were all of your favorite rioters given orders to vacate and they stayed no one killed any of them, AND they destroyed the places. The first Bush was, and Is a NWO liberal everyone knows that don't you! He was director of the CIA too. Liberal education I guess always fails to tell historic FACTS.


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## Hutch Starskey

9thIDdoc said:


>



Great song but not apt in the Oregon case.
Ferguson seems more in keeping with the original theme of those lyrics.


----------



## koshergrl

The refuge was open the whole time. Until the FEDS blocked access and shut down the roads. 

Here's the people in neighboring Grant County where people were waiting to hear and support Bundy. The feds and sheriff would not allow meetings in Harney county, so grant county said come here...we want and will support you. So the feds ambushed them because they DO NOT want people to hear the stories these people have to tell, and they do not want the truth about their illegal occupation discussed publically.


----------



## AceRothstein

12icer said:


> Did they riot did they destroy any property they impede anyones right to use the facility. It was just as much their property as ANYONE elses. The idea that you are seizing the property did not apply to occupy wall street I guess. I consider assault and murder crimes.


The occupying assholes paved roads, removed fences and took down security cameras.


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## koshergrl

Leaving Facebook...

another angle of bundy supporters waiting to discuss their options and intent to evict the fed pieces of shit.


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## koshergrl

https://m.facebook.com/alexandra.puckett.79?fref=ts

Read her account of fed treatment of her family when they went to feed cows.


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## koshergrl

btw, the fbi had invited bundy and his men to this particular meeting, promising peaceful negotiation with the intent of coming to a peaceful.resolution. Grant county ranchers wanted to hear what the feds had to say because they support bundy in his demand that the feds release their illegal control of public lands and to release the hammonds.


----------



## Dot Com

based on your "end times" source?


----------



## Vandalshandle

Those poor victimized ranchers, armed to the teeth with semi-automatic weapons, trespassing, stealing government vehicles, closing public facilities, and threatening civil war. I shed a tear for the oppression that they suffer, while disrupting the entire county in which they are doing these unlawful things.

I feel their pain. After all, i am a Southerner, and I know what it is like to be under the jack boot of the federal government. We politely asked the feds to leave Ft. Sumter, but Noooooooooooo.....!


----------



## Dot Com

Vandalshandle said:


> Those poor victimized ranchers, armed to the teeth with semi-automatic weapons, trespassing, stealing government vehicles, closing public facilities, and threatening civil war. I shed a tear for the oppression that they suffer, while disrupting the entire county in which they are doing these unlawful things.
> 
> I feel their pain. After all, i am a Southerner, and I know what it is like to be under the jack boot of the federal government. We politely asked the feds to leave Ft. Sumter, but Noooooooooooo.....!


^ that


----------



## Vandalshandle

Only 4 of them left. They say that they will leave if they won't be arrested. Don't count on it Red Ryder!


----------



## Carla_Danger

Vandalshandle said:


> Only 4 of them left. They say that they will leave if they won't be arrested. Don't count on it Red Ryder!





We don't negotiate with terrorist.


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only 4 of them left. They say that they will leave if they won't be arrested. Don't count on it Red Ryder!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't negotiate with terrorist.
Click to expand...

Sureyou do. Whats more, you support them.


----------



## koshergrl

Dot Com said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those poor victimized ranchers, armed to the teeth with semi-automatic weapons, trespassing, stealing government vehicles, closing public facilities, and threatening civil war. I shed a tear for the oppression that they suffer, while disrupting the entire county in which they are doing these unlawful things.
> 
> I feel their pain. After all, i am a Southerner, and I know what it is like to be under the jack boot of the federal government. We politely asked the feds to leave Ft. Sumter, but Noooooooooooo.....!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ that
Click to expand...

So you are okay with federal assault on ranchers feedi g cattle. 

You are a card carrying terrorist. I bet you jack off to muslim snuff videos.


----------



## Dot Com

^ dirty mind much Allie?


----------



## Faun

12icer said:


> AND how many times were all of your favorite rioters given orders to vacate and they stayed no one killed any of them, AND they destroyed the places. The first Bush was, and Is a NWO liberal everyone knows that don't you! He was director of the CIA too. Liberal education I guess always fails to tell historic FACTS.


And the rioters were the law-breakers in those cases. Law enforcement was not. 

Using those riots as an analogy to what happened in Oregon exposes how retarded one must be to call the law enforcement officers trying to break up those riots, _"law-breakers."_



Thanks for adding the exclamation mark to my point about 9thIDdoc!


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> The refuge was open the whole time. Until the FEDS blocked access and shut down the roads.
> 
> Here's the people in neighboring Grant County where people were waiting to hear and support Bundy. The feds and sheriff would not allow meetings in Harney county, so grant county said come here...we want and will support you. So the feds ambushed them because they DO NOT want people to hear the stories these people have to tell, and they do not want the truth about their illegal occupation discussed publically. View attachment 61444


What a loon.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only 4 of them left. They say that they will leave if they won't be arrested. Don't count on it Red Ryder!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't negotiate with terrorist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sureyou do. Whats more, you support them.
Click to expand...




Liar.


----------



## Synthaholic

WildBillKelsoe said:


> How many law breakers were killed in Ferguson?  Or Baltimore?


All of the ones who pulled guns on law enforcement.


----------



## Synthaholic

WildBillKelsoe said:


> 9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.


Which video game?  Call Of Duty?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Synthaholic said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
Click to expand...


Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.


----------



## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
Click to expand...



POS civilians?  lol


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
Click to expand...


Probably the same reason that POS veterans think insults make them cute and witty. Being a veteran doesn't magically make you immune to being wrong. Or an asshole.


----------



## tyroneweaver

With the leadership gone, it might be a good idea for Bundy to call up those remaining to go home.
Those that are left don't look like the brightest bulbs in the box.


----------



## Skylar

Carla_Danger said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
Click to expand...


Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.


----------



## Skylar

tyroneweaver said:


> With the leadership gone, it might be a good idea for Bundy to call up those remaining to go home.
> Those that are left don't look like the brightest bulbs in the box.



They demonstrated that by showing up. They're drinking themselves into a stupor now....the 4 or so morons who are still left. They've got to sleep some time.


----------



## tyroneweaver

Eaglewings said:


> I keep thinking of a Waco Texas ending


That avatar is hilarious.


----------



## 12icer

I don't think the cop/fed analysis is too far off base. The people supporting the killing of this man in Oregon seem to dislike the actions that started riots elsewhere. IE HIPPOCRACY like all things liberals do! my computer does not like the scripting here I have to type everything over n over.


----------



## Synthaholic

9thIDdoc said:


> I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.


What makes you think I was a civilian, dope?


----------



## Old Rocks

The dumb asshole reached for a gun. He got what he deserved.

FBI releases video footage of LaVoy Finicum shooting


----------



## Synthaholic

tyroneweaver said:


> With the leadership gone, it might be a good idea for Bundy to call up those remaining to go home.
> Those that are left don't look like the brightest bulbs in the box.


Ammon Bundy is barely a 25 watt-er himself.


----------



## Vandalshandle

The FBI has released a video of the shooting. The guy tried to run a roadblock by driving off the road, and got stuck in a snow bank. He got out of the car and raised his hands, but then dropped them and reached for something around his waist area, which is when he was shot.

Sorry KosherG. Nobody kept shooting at him after they dropped him, and no, nobody put 100 bullet holes in the car. You might want to find another source for your RW nut info.

The FBI is now rolling in armored cars. Under the circumstances, one would think that it might be a good time to put down one's deer rifle, and come out peacefully...unless one wants to make the 11 o'clock news as another martyr in search of free shit from the government.


----------



## koshergrl

He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.

Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.


----------



## koshergrl

No deer rifle. No weapon at all. Hands in the air. No returned fire, no resistance.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Victoria, the girl in the car says they shot the car at least 100 times, that they shot at them while they had their hands out the windows and were asking to talk to the Sheriff. No aggression at all. LaVoy came out of the car, hands up, and said "Are you just going to shoot me then?" Then they did. And she said that once he was on the ground, they continued to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hands up, don't shoot!!!*
Click to expand...

At least his hands were up


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure you guys will really be pleased if this kicks off a civil war with untold numbers of innocent dead. Be sure to pat yourself on the backs.
> 
> 
> 
> Why on Earth would arresting law-breakers kick off a civil war?
> 
> And which side would be on the side of the law-breakers?
Click to expand...

Yeah exactly, why burn Ferguson because of a lawbreaker?


----------



## jc456

Vandalshandle said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No deer rifle. No weapon at all. Hands in the air. No returned fire, no resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KG, you really do watch way too much violent fiction on TV. I'm surprised that you did not identify Dirty Hairy pulling the trigger.
Click to expand...

Dude, someone stated there was an eyewitness saying he had a deer rifle and reaching for it. It's the reason for the post


----------



## AceRothstein

He thought he'd be able to run into the woods and escape.  Dummy.


----------



## Vandalshandle

jc456 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No deer rifle. No weapon at all. Hands in the air. No returned fire, no resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KG, you really do watch way too much violent fiction on TV. I'm surprised that you did not identify Dirty Hairy pulling the trigger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, someone stated there was an eyewitness saying he had a deer rifle and reaching for it. It's the reason for the post
Click to expand...


And, dudette, another eyewitness says that fire was exchanged from both sides.


----------



## jc456

Vandalshandle said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No deer rifle. No weapon at all. Hands in the air. No returned fire, no resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KG, you really do watch way too much violent fiction on TV. I'm surprised that you did not identify Dirty Hairy pulling the trigger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, someone stated there was an eyewitness saying he had a deer rifle and reaching for it. It's the reason for the post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, dudette, another eyewitness says that fire was exchanged from both sides.
Click to expand...

There was no eyewitnesses other than the ones in the car and those shooting at them.  So post the eyewitness statement or stfu


----------



## Carla_Danger

The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.


----------



## Vandalshandle

jc456 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No deer rifle. No weapon at all. Hands in the air. No returned fire, no resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KG, you really do watch way too much violent fiction on TV. I'm surprised that you did not identify Dirty Hairy pulling the trigger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, someone stated there was an eyewitness saying he had a deer rifle and reaching for it. It's the reason for the post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, dudette, another eyewitness says that fire was exchanged from both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no eyewitnesses other than the ones in the car and those shooting at them.  So post the eyewitness statement or stfu
Click to expand...


JC, you and KG are so totally immersed in your piles of misinformation that I am not about to dig up every detail of what I have read about this all day. I would be here doing that all night. Hell, KG can't even see what happened that was clearly on the video. The guy was armed, probably with an automatic pistol. He has been saying this for days. The FBI announced right after the shooting that there had been firing on both sides. He was clearly trying to run a roadblock. They already had a warrant for his arrest, before he resisted the arrest.  While being apprehended, he clearly put his hands down, which any half assed idiot knows you don't do when an officer of the law has got a bead on you, and is giving you orders. 

In short, look it up yourself. If you don't want to, just wait until the complete statement is released tomorrow. I'm in no hurry. Everything is working out in the end..


----------



## jc456

Vandalshandle said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No deer rifle. No weapon at all. Hands in the air. No returned fire, no resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KG, you really do watch way too much violent fiction on TV. I'm surprised that you did not identify Dirty Hairy pulling the trigger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, someone stated there was an eyewitness saying he had a deer rifle and reaching for it. It's the reason for the post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, dudette, another eyewitness says that fire was exchanged from both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no eyewitnesses other than the ones in the car and those shooting at them.  So post the eyewitness statement or stfu
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JC, you and KG are so totally immersed in your piles of misinformation that I am not about to dig up every detail of what I have read about this all day. I would be here doing that all night. Hell, KG can't even see what happened that was clearly on the video. The guy was armed, probably with an automatic pistol. He has been saying this for days. The FBI announced right after the shooting that there had been firing on both sides. He was clearly trying to run a roadblock. They already had a warrant for his arrest, before he resisted the arrest.  While being apprehended, he clearly put his hands down, which any half assed idiot knows you don't do when an officer of the law has got a bead on you, and is giving you orders.
> 
> In short, look it up yourself. If you don't want to, just wait until the complete statement is released tomorrow. I'm in no hurry. Everything is working out in the end..
Click to expand...

Release the audio


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.


Ain't good enough


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
Click to expand...




It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.


LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> KG, you really do watch way too much violent fiction on TV. I'm surprised that you did not identify Dirty Hairy pulling the trigger.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, someone stated there was an eyewitness saying he had a deer rifle and reaching for it. It's the reason for the post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, dudette, another eyewitness says that fire was exchanged from both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no eyewitnesses other than the ones in the car and those shooting at them.  So post the eyewitness statement or stfu
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JC, you and KG are so totally immersed in your piles of misinformation that I am not about to dig up every detail of what I have read about this all day. I would be here doing that all night. Hell, KG can't even see what happened that was clearly on the video. The guy was armed, probably with an automatic pistol. He has been saying this for days. The FBI announced right after the shooting that there had been firing on both sides. He was clearly trying to run a roadblock. They already had a warrant for his arrest, before he resisted the arrest.  While being apprehended, he clearly put his hands down, which any half assed idiot knows you don't do when an officer of the law has got a bead on you, and is giving you orders.
> 
> In short, look it up yourself. If you don't want to, just wait until the complete statement is released tomorrow. I'm in no hurry. Everything is working out in the end..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Release the audio
Click to expand...



From the helicopter?


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No deer rifle. No weapon at all. Hands in the air. No returned fire, no resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KG, you really do watch way too much violent fiction on TV. I'm surprised that you did not identify Dirty Hairy pulling the trigger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, someone stated there was an eyewitness saying he had a deer rifle and reaching for it. It's the reason for the post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, dudette, another eyewitness says that fire was exchanged from both sides.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was no eyewitnesses other than the ones in the car and those shooting at them.  So post the eyewitness statement or stfu
Click to expand...

Sucks when one of your own gets shot by a cop and nobody gives a fuck about your whining about fairness or unfairness. Other folks get that all the time, now it is your turn.


----------



## Vandalshandle

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
Click to expand...


Well, if the FBI was wrong, I am sure that they will apologize to him.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.
Click to expand...

Hypocrite is all I can say


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hypocrite is all I can say
Click to expand...



LaVoy had a death wish, and he talked about his death wish on video.  He'd be alive if he had kept his hands up.


----------



## ogibillm

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hypocrite is all I can say
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LaVoy had a death wish, and he talked about his death wish on video.  He'd be alive if he had kept his hands up.
Click to expand...

he'd be alive if he weren't an idiot. then he wouldn't have been there in the first place


----------



## Synthaholic




----------



## Carla_Danger

ogibillm said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hypocrite is all I can say
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> LaVoy had a death wish, and he talked about his death wish on video.  He'd be alive if he had kept his hands up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> he'd be alive if he weren't an idiot. then he wouldn't have been there in the first place
Click to expand...



That's very true.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.


You're such a dupe. 

They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?



And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.
> 
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
Click to expand...




It was Ryan Bundy, and it was a firearm.  You are correct.


----------



## Camp

It looked like he almost ran over a trooper or agent. He deserved no break or mercy. He placed himself in a "move a muscle and you are dead" situation and he moved a muscle, so he is dead. End of story. End of Leroy.
How does that guy's last name translate into French? His name is French isn't it?


----------



## Vandalshandle

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.
> 
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
Click to expand...


And as for the comment about the first thing that they do is take the gun from the downed shooter, that is pure BS. The cop would have had to turn his back on a car full of hostile armed belligerents in order to take the gun from the guy who was shot. Cops are NOT that stupid.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Coming up tomorrow: Four die hard domestic terrorists instantly become heroes when they are so GD dumb that they try to fight off armored vehicles with rifles......


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Victoria, the girl in the car says they shot the car at least 100 times, that they shot at them while they had their hands out the windows and were asking to talk to the Sheriff. No aggression at all. LaVoy came out of the car, hands up, and said "Are you just going to shoot me then?" Then they did. And she said that once he was on the ground, they continued to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hands up, don't shoot!!!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At least his hands were up
Click to expand...

Until he reached for his gun (@9:28) .... after running over an agent ...

_*(graphic)*_


----------



## Vandalshandle

You can even see that the sonofabitch had already drawn his gun before they shot him.


----------



## Faun

Vandalshandle said:


> You can even see that the sonofabitch had already drawn his gun before they shot him.


Some of the brain-dead right are actually claiming the FBI shot him in the hip so that he would appear to be reaching for his gun. _<smh>_


----------



## 12icer

So you didn't watch the video? If that is your idea of what happened you didn't watch it very well. There was a lot of ordinance in the air all the while, the man was shot the first time before he dropped hi hands the truck was taking heavy fire and they deployed at least three grenades I didn't see anybody get run over, one dumbass started to go that way, and jumped back in front of the unit there. Now the feds want regular cops to wear body cams but of course Not them, easy to see why. These people were exercising a constitutional right. no body got killed till the feds showed up just like always. Governments kill thousands more people in the world than all of the private murders in all of the countries of the world combined. this one is NO exception.


----------



## Faun

12icer said:


> So you didn't watch the video? If that is your idea of what happened you didn't watch it very well. There was a lot of ordinance in the air all the while, the man was shot the first time before he dropped hi hands the truck was taking heavy fire and they deployed at least three grenades I didn't see anybody get run over, one dumbass started to go that way, and jumped back in front of the unit there. Now the feds want regular cops to wear body cams but of course Not them, easy to see why. These people were exercising a constitutional right. no body got killed till the feds showed up just like always. Governments kill thousands more people in the world than all of the private murders in all of the countries of the world combined. this one is NO exception.


^^^ see what I mean? ^^^

_<smh>_


----------



## 9thIDdoc

This was a serious fuck up on the part of the FBI. They escalated a peaceful protest into a shootout for no very good reason except to throw their weight around. They shed first blood at their own little ambush and created a martyr. Next time around they may find themselves getting ambushed. Great way to start a war.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> This was a serious fuck up on the part of the FBI. They escalated a peaceful protest into a shootout for no very good reason except to throw their weight around. They shed first blood at their own little ambush and created a martyr. Next time around they may find themselves getting ambushed. Great way to start a war.


What escalation? They waited until Bundy was away from the crowds at the refuge to arrest him as peacefully as possible.

Thanks for sharing the deranged rightard view. Can never get enough of those.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Faun said:


> 12icer said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you didn't watch the video? If that is your idea of what happened you didn't watch it very well. There was a lot of ordinance in the air all the while, the man was shot the first time before he dropped hi hands the truck was taking heavy fire and they deployed at least three grenades I didn't see anybody get run over, one dumbass started to go that way, and jumped back in front of the unit there. Now the feds want regular cops to wear body cams but of course Not them, easy to see why. These people were exercising a constitutional right. no body got killed till the feds showed up just like always. Governments kill thousands more people in the world than all of the private murders in all of the countries of the world combined. this one is NO exception.
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ see what I mean? ^^^
> 
> _<smh>_
Click to expand...


There comes a time when people need to admit to themselves that they are living in a make believe universe and that they need help escaping from their private rabbit hole.


----------



## Vandalshandle

I used to be convinced that it was something in the water, up in Idaho, Montana, etc. But that does not explain Texas. Now,I just realize that there are a hell of a lot of morons who have learned to post on a message board. Let's hope that they do not evolve enough to register to vote.


----------



## Steve_McGarrett

New testimony is that the federal agents were screaming at LaVoy to remove his weapon when his hands were up seconds after he got out of his truck. When he complied and attempted to remove it the agent from behind shot him.


----------



## Faun

Steve_McGarrett said:


> New testimony is that the federal agents were screaming at LaVoy to remove his weapon when his hands were up seconds after he got out of his truck. When he complied and attempted to remove it the agent from behind shot him.


Testimony from whom, the voices in your head?


----------



## Old Rocks

9thIDdoc said:


> This was a serious fuck up on the part of the FBI. They escalated a peaceful protest into a shootout for no very good reason except to throw their weight around. They shed first blood at their own little ambush and created a martyr. Next time around they may find themselves getting ambushed. Great way to start a war.


What an incredibly stupid post, dumb fuck. These people were threatening law officers with weapons from the gitgo. They were justly taken down. A dimbulb with a death wish reached for his gun when the police had him dead to rights. And, quite justly, they made him dead. He got his wish. Should a dumb loudmouth like you actually act on the idiocy you post, you will get the same, also quite justly.


----------



## Old Rocks

Steve_McGarrett said:


> New testimony is that the federal agents were screaming at LaVoy to remove his weapon when his hands were up seconds after he got out of his truck. When he complied and attempted to remove it the agent from behind shot him.


And you are a fucking liar, but everyone already knows that.


----------



## Iceweasel

Steve_McGarrett said:


> New testimony is that the federal agents were screaming at LaVoy to remove his weapon when his hands were up seconds after he got out of his truck. When he complied and attempted to remove it the agent from behind shot him.


Sorta doubt that. Cops don't want people touching guns, they are sensitive about that. It would be hands up, behind the head, on the knees, lay down. They do  the disarming.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.
> 
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
Click to expand...


KG's version of events....


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.


Nice try....your lies are catching up to you...we can all see the video.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
Click to expand...

Of course not.....but toy guns are enough for justified executions.


----------



## bodecea

Steve_McGarrett said:


> New testimony is that the federal agents were screaming at LaVoy to remove his weapon when his hands were up seconds after he got out of his truck. When he complied and attempted to remove it the agent from behind shot him.


Right...because authorities ALWAYS tell people to remove their weapons.....

Thank you for proving you are from the shallow end of the gene pool.....once again.


----------



## Faun

bodecea said:


> Steve_McGarrett said:
> 
> 
> 
> New testimony is that the federal agents were screaming at LaVoy to remove his weapon when his hands were up seconds after he got out of his truck. When he complied and attempted to remove it the agent from behind shot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Right...because authorities ALWAYS tell people to remove their weapons.....
> 
> Thank you for proving you are from the shallow end of the gene pool.....once again.
Click to expand...

Of course, don'tcha know? When people being arrested have their hands up, police instruct them to reach for their gun.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Skylar said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
Click to expand...


I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.

Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Skylar said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Probably the same reason that POS veterans think insults make them cute and witty. Being a veteran doesn't magically make you immune to being wrong. Or an asshole.
Click to expand...


Being a Liberal makes you prone to it.


----------



## Faun

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
Click to expand...

Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Faun said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
Click to expand...


Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?

I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.
> 
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
Click to expand...

maybe because it was a snow bank?  Ever walk in one?  hahahahahaahahaha, what a stupid question.


----------



## Skylar

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
Click to expand...


Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Victoria, the girl in the car says they shot the car at least 100 times, that they shot at them while they had their hands out the windows and were asking to talk to the Sheriff. No aggression at all. LaVoy came out of the car, hands up, and said "Are you just going to shoot me then?" Then they did. And she said that once he was on the ground, they continued to shoot him.
> 
> 
> 
> *Hands up, don't shoot!!!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> At least his hands were up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Until he reached for his gun (@9:28) .... after running over an agent ...
> 
> _*(graphic)*_
Click to expand...

sure frances.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
Click to expand...

no it was the way John Kerry treated his own comrades, is why he got treated the way he did.  he threw his medals.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no it was the way John Kerry treated his own comrades, is why he got treated the way he did.  he threw his medals.
Click to expand...


And lets say he did. Does that somehow undo his military service? Of course not. Putting your life on the line for months at a time isn't 'erased' by throwing pieces of metal over fence.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> 12icer said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you didn't watch the video? If that is your idea of what happened you didn't watch it very well. There was a lot of ordinance in the air all the while, the man was shot the first time before he dropped hi hands the truck was taking heavy fire and they deployed at least three grenades I didn't see anybody get run over, one dumbass started to go that way, and jumped back in front of the unit there. Now the feds want regular cops to wear body cams but of course Not them, easy to see why. These people were exercising a constitutional right. no body got killed till the feds showed up just like always. Governments kill thousands more people in the world than all of the private murders in all of the countries of the world combined. this one is NO exception.
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ see what I mean? ^^^
> 
> _<smh>_
Click to expand...

yeah, he was spot on.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Skylar said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
Click to expand...


Notice how you didn't address how the Left used faked documents to lie about Bush being AWOL?

At least the crticism of Kerry was coming from veterans who wtnessed Kerry's conduct. You people didn't even have that....lol


----------



## Carla_Danger

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
Click to expand...




Try to stay on topic, doofus.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no it was the way John Kerry treated his own comrades, is why he got treated the way he did.  he threw his medals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And lets say he did. Does that somehow undo his military service? Of course not. Putting your life on the line for months at a time isn't 'erased' by throwing pieces of metal over fence.
Click to expand...


He was never, "on the front line".  He was in one firefight the whole time he was in country.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Carla_Danger said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try to stay on topic, doofus.
Click to expand...


Oh, NOW, you want to stay on topic, followed up with the customary insult.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no it was the way John Kerry treated his own comrades, is why he got treated the way he did.  he threw his medals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And lets say he did. Does that somehow undo his military service? Of course not. Putting your life on the line for months at a time isn't 'erased' by throwing pieces of metal over fence.
Click to expand...

I give two shits the dude got shot.  Really, I don't care.  The point is the hypocrisy of you and your left loonies that think this is different than any cop shooting that we've hashed over time and again in here.  SAME EXACT THING, and what's even funnier is your ignorance to it.  Yeah, I know they thought he had a gun, ok, that is considered a threat, right, no difference than the kid in Ohio, or the kid in Ferguson.  no fkn different.  Even the kid in Chicago, and in the Chicago one you can see the kid on the video draw his knife, his weapon.  Funny and the cop is the bad guy.  Same scenario here and you're all, what a stupid fk for going for his gun, if that is what was happening. And calling it justified.  LO fkn Loud. hypocrites all of you, no integrity and no class.


----------



## Carla_Danger

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 9ThIDdoc served our country as a combat medic, in a foreign battlefield.  Show a little respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
Click to expand...




I don't know that he served. I don't know him. This is the internet. People lie on the internet.

For all I know this could be another case of "stolen valor."


----------



## jc456

Vandalshandle said:


> You can even see that the sonofabitch had already drawn his gun before they shot him.


you can?  wow, there is no fkn way you could see that from that video.  zero chance fat ass.


----------



## Skylar

Carla_Danger said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that he served. I don't know him. This is the internet. People lie on the internet.
> 
> For all I know this could be another case of "stolen valor."
Click to expand...


Exactly. We have an anonymous guy claiming specific military service. But can't back any of it factually.

The drunk wanna be militia man claiming to be a Green Beret whose records were 'sealed by Reagan' has a better case than our anonymous poster. As least we can verify the drunk wanna be was a man of an age to make it plausible. The poster could be a kid for all we know. Or a woman.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Skylar said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that he served. I don't know him. This is the internet. People lie on the internet.
> 
> For all I know this could be another case of "stolen valor."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly. We have an anonymous guy claiming specific military service. But can't back any of it factually.
> 
> The drunk wanna be militia man claiming to be a Green Beret whose records were 'sealed by Reagan' has a better case than our anonymous poster. As least we can verify the drunk wanna be was a man of an age to make it plausible. The poster could be a kid for all we know. Or a woman.
Click to expand...


Why do you hate our veterans?


----------



## Skylar

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that he served. I don't know him. This is the internet. People lie on the internet.
> 
> For all I know this could be another case of "stolen valor."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly. We have an anonymous guy claiming specific military service. But can't back any of it factually.
> 
> The drunk wanna be militia man claiming to be a Green Beret whose records were 'sealed by Reagan' has a better case than our anonymous poster. As least we can verify the drunk wanna be was a man of an age to make it plausible. The poster could be a kid for all we know. Or a woman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you hate our veterans?
Click to expand...


For the same reason that you hate all civilians?


----------



## Synthaholic

9thIDdoc said:


> They escalated a peaceful protest


If it was a peaceful protest why did they have assault weapons and make videos promising gunfire?

You say a lot of stupid shit.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.
Click to expand...

why, it wasn't good enough when the cops in Chicago, Ferguson and Ohio saw what they saw, so how is it now you'll accept that as justification?  Oh wait, you're a hypocrite that's why.  hey Hypocrite, you're a fk.


----------



## jc456

Synthaholic said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> They escalated a peaceful protest
> 
> 
> 
> If it was a peaceful protest why did they have assault weapons and make videos promising gunfire?
> 
> You say a lot of stupid shit.
Click to expand...

why does that not make it peaceful if they never used them or made threats?  hmmmmm?


----------



## Synthaholic

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
Click to expand...

He was.  That was proven.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, it wasn't good enough when the cops in Chicago, Ferguson and Ohio saw what they saw, so how is it now you'll accept that as justification?  Oh wait, you're a hypocrite that's why.  hey Hypocrite, you're a fk.
Click to expand...




LaVoy wasn't a 12 year old with a toy gun. His gun was real, and he promised to use it, you big dummy.


----------



## Synthaholic

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Notice how you didn't address how the Left used faked documents to lie about Bush being AWOL?


One fake document, planted to cast doubt on all the other evidence, does not change that other evidence.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Synthaholic said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was.  That was proven.
Click to expand...



See what I mean?...LMAO!!


----------



## Carla_Danger

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was.  That was proven.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean?...LMAO!!
Click to expand...




No, not really.


----------



## Skylar

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was.  That was proven.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean?...LMAO!!
Click to expand...


Laughing.......are you *so* desperate to abandon the topic that you'll take *any* reply from *any* poster on the question you asked me?


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, it wasn't good enough when the cops in Chicago, Ferguson and Ohio saw what they saw, so how is it now you'll accept that as justification?  Oh wait, you're a hypocrite that's why.  hey Hypocrite, you're a fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LaVoy wasn't a 12 year old with a toy gun. His gun was real, and he promised to use it, you big dummy.
Click to expand...

naw he was an old fk what is the difference? are you saying 12 year olds can't shoot guns?  Really, is that what you're trying to say?  Why so many children shooting other children with guns they find?  come on poindexter you're just a hypocrite, admit it.

And BTW poindexter, the 12 year old was waving a gun in his hand.  Just saying, it was a gun.  A threat right?  Your definition now.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Synthaholic said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how you didn't address how the Left used faked documents to lie about Bush being AWOL?
> 
> 
> 
> One fake document, planted to cast doubt on all the other evidence, does not change that other evidence.
Click to expand...


Rather's fake document was the ONLY evidence...lol


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, it wasn't good enough when the cops in Chicago, Ferguson and Ohio saw what they saw, so how is it now you'll accept that as justification?  Oh wait, you're a hypocrite that's why.  hey Hypocrite, you're a fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LaVoy wasn't a 12 year old with a toy gun. His gun was real, and he promised to use it, you big dummy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> naw he was an old fk what is the difference? are you saying 12 year olds can't shoot guns?  Really, is that what you're trying to say?  Why so many children shooting other children with guns they find?  come on poindexter you're just a hypocrite, admit it.
Click to expand...



Try to type in English, Nancy.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, it wasn't good enough when the cops in Chicago, Ferguson and Ohio saw what they saw, so how is it now you'll accept that as justification?  Oh wait, you're a hypocrite that's why.  hey Hypocrite, you're a fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LaVoy wasn't a 12 year old with a toy gun. His gun was real, and he promised to use it, you big dummy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> naw he was an old fk what is the difference? are you saying 12 year olds can't shoot guns?  Really, is that what you're trying to say?  Why so many children shooting other children with guns they find?  come on poindexter you're just a hypocrite, admit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Try to type in English, Nancy.
Click to expand...

maybe you should go back to school and learn how to read english poindexter.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Skylar said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was.  That was proven.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean?...LMAO!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.......are you *so* desperate to abandon the topic that you'll take *any* reply from *any* poster on the question you asked me?
Click to expand...


Hey, I love to watch Liberals side with the cops in a shooting.  This is going to be comedy hold the next time a black dude gets shit.

But, if you people didn't have a double standard, you wouldn't have any standards at all.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's good enough for me.  There's another video of Ryan Bundy getting out of the car, then throwing his gun down on the ground.
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he wouldn't spend any time in jail, and he got what he wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> why, it wasn't good enough when the cops in Chicago, Ferguson and Ohio saw what they saw, so how is it now you'll accept that as justification?  Oh wait, you're a hypocrite that's why.  hey Hypocrite, you're a fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LaVoy wasn't a 12 year old with a toy gun. His gun was real, and he promised to use it, you big dummy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> naw he was an old fk what is the difference? are you saying 12 year olds can't shoot guns?  Really, is that what you're trying to say?  Why so many children shooting other children with guns they find?  come on poindexter you're just a hypocrite, admit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Try to type in English, Nancy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> maybe you should go back to school and learn how to read english poindexter.
Click to expand...




Your words are a jumbled up whine fest.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> why, it wasn't good enough when the cops in Chicago, Ferguson and Ohio saw what they saw, so how is it now you'll accept that as justification?  Oh wait, you're a hypocrite that's why.  hey Hypocrite, you're a fk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LaVoy wasn't a 12 year old with a toy gun. His gun was real, and he promised to use it, you big dummy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> naw he was an old fk what is the difference? are you saying 12 year olds can't shoot guns?  Really, is that what you're trying to say?  Why so many children shooting other children with guns they find?  come on poindexter you're just a hypocrite, admit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Try to type in English, Nancy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> maybe you should go back to school and learn how to read english poindexter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your words are a jumbled up whine fest.
Click to expand...

no they aren't, you just don't want to answer for fear of proving your double standard.  you fkn hypocrite.


----------



## Carla_Danger

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was.  That was proven.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean?...LMAO!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.......are you *so* desperate to abandon the topic that you'll take *any* reply from *any* poster on the question you asked me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, I love to watch Liberals side with the cops in a shooting.  This is going to be comedy hold the next time a black dude gets shit.
> 
> But, if you people didn't have a double standard, you wouldn't have any standards at all.
Click to expand...




The next time there is an armed occupation of federal property, done by a group of black people, you let me know.

Hell, the next time there is an armed protest by black people, you let me know.


----------



## Faun

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
Click to expand...

I don't speak for the left but I respect Kerry's service. Bush? Not so much. Unlike Kerry, he didn't volunteer to fight. And he got out early, not  serving his full 6 years.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.
> 
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> maybe because it was a snow bank?  Ever walk in one?  hahahahahaahahaha, what a stupid question.
Click to expand...

Holyfuckingshit! 

It's on video. He didn't stumble. He walked for about 15; away from the road block and towards the trees; and then reached for his gun. Unlike everyone else who walked directly to the road block and never lowered their hands until they were restrained.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Faun said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which video game?  Call Of Duty?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
Click to expand...


Service? What service? John Kerry is-and was- too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
Click to expand...


Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.


----------



## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
Click to expand...




Why are you disrespecting a service man with 2 purple hearts, a bronze and a silver star?

Stolen Valor?


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no it was the way John Kerry treated his own comrades, is why he got treated the way he did.  he threw his medals.
Click to expand...

Comrades like Jim Rassman, whose life Kerry saved?

How many lives did Bush save while serving in the TANG?


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12icer said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you didn't watch the video? If that is your idea of what happened you didn't watch it very well. There was a lot of ordinance in the air all the while, the man was shot the first time before he dropped hi hands the truck was taking heavy fire and they deployed at least three grenades I didn't see anybody get run over, one dumbass started to go that way, and jumped back in front of the unit there. Now the feds want regular cops to wear body cams but of course Not them, easy to see why. These people were exercising a constitutional right. no body got killed till the feds showed up just like always. Governments kill thousands more people in the world than all of the private murders in all of the countries of the world combined. this one is NO exception.
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ see what I mean? ^^^
> 
> _<smh>_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yeah, he was spot on.
Click to expand...

It's cute how you delusional righties give each other a reach-around.


----------



## Carla_Danger

9THDUMMY thinks he can disrespect a man with 2 purple hearts, a bronze, and a silver star, but we should respect him, and we don't even know if he served.

ROFL!


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_"Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient"
_
That would be because some people think people should be treated according to their actual actions (or lack thereof) instead of propaganda about them.


----------



## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> _"Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient"
> _
> That would be because some people deserve should be treated according to their actual actions (or lack thereof) instead of propaganda about them.




I'm just going by your actions on this forum, you deserve no respect.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> _"Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient"
> _
> That would be because some people deserve should be treated according to their actual actions (or lack thereof) instead of propaganda about them.



And by 'propaganda' you mean* his actual, official military service record? *

Laughing...why would any rational person ignore that and instead believe whatever hapeless batshit you've imagined?


----------



## bodecea

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
Click to expand...

I am of the Left and I served.  Respect that?  Many RWrs here do not.


----------



## Faun

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you didn't address how the Left used faked documents to lie about Bush being AWOL?
> 
> At least the crticism of Kerry was coming from veterans who wtnessed Kerry's conduct. You people didn't even have that....lol
Click to expand...

You mean criticism by fellow veterans like Larry Thurlow, who got caught red handed lying about Kerry's service.

Or how about triple amputee, Max Cleland? I recall the right making fun of him for losing 3 limbs for his service.

G'head, tell me again how the right respects veterens' service. I always enjoy a good laugh.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, because that was Vietnam (the war; not a video game-you might have heard of it) I was probably used to being insulted long before you were born. So take your best shot. I never have understood why POS civilians think insults make them cute and witty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is-and was- too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
Click to expand...

That you don't know Kerry served reveals your ignorance on the matter.


----------



## Steve_McGarrett

bodecea said:


> Steve_McGarrett said:
> 
> 
> 
> New testimony is that the federal agents were screaming at LaVoy to remove his weapon when his hands were up seconds after he got out of his truck. When he complied and attempted to remove it the agent from behind shot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Right...because authorities ALWAYS tell people to remove their weapons.....
> 
> Thank you for proving you are from the shallow end of the gene pool.....once again.
Click to expand...

Nope. That's new trstimony from citizens who were there. LaVoy was baited so he could be executed.


----------



## Steve_McGarrett

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said he was reaching for a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun.
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't good enough
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course not.....but toy guns are enough for justified executions.
Click to expand...

Yes but only for black people.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _"Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient"
> _
> That would be because some people deserve should be treated according to their actual actions (or lack thereof) instead of propaganda about them.


Just as you're being treated.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Skylar said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
Click to expand...




Synthaholic said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> They escalated a peaceful protest
> 
> 
> 
> If it was a peaceful protest why did they have assault weapons and make videos promising gunfire?
> 
> You say a lot of stupid shit.
Click to expand...


You don't think aiming a firearm (assault with a deadly weapon) is an escalation from peaceful protest and discussion? The Feds clearly did that. I doubt we'll ever know if that was Lavoy's intent or not.


----------



## Skylar

Steve_McGarrett said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve_McGarrett said:
> 
> 
> 
> New testimony is that the federal agents were screaming at LaVoy to remove his weapon when his hands were up seconds after he got out of his truck. When he complied and attempted to remove it the agent from behind shot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Right...because authorities ALWAYS tell people to remove their weapons.....
> 
> Thank you for proving you are from the shallow end of the gene pool.....once again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. That's new testimony from citizens who were there. LaVoy was baited so he could be executed.
Click to expand...


Obvious nonsense. LaVoy was given ample opportunity to surrender. He refused. He ran from cops, ran a blockade, resisted arrest and reached for a gun.

The shoot was justifiable. And you're narrative is disproven horseshit. Though you do give us a lovely window into how your ilk reach their batshit conclusions: they just make it up.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> They escalated a peaceful protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it was a peaceful protest why did they have assault weapons and make videos promising gunfire?
> 
> You say a lot of stupid shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't think aiming a firearm (assault with a deadly weapon) is an escalation from peaceful protest and discussion? The Feds clearly did that. I doubt we'll ever know if that was Lavoy's intent or not.
Click to expand...


The Feds performed a lawful probable cause arrest, complete with warrants. You don't 'discuss' a warrant by trying to run a blockade, resisting arrest, or reaching for a gun.

That's how you get shot. And LaVoy knew it.


----------



## Carla_Danger

LaVoy, passing the first road block was a sign of aggression.


----------



## Vandalshandle

When a cop is making an arrest, and the suspect resists his orders, the cop is SUPPOSED to raise and aim his weapon. Only a spin master could even think to call that an escalation.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_"Why are you disrespecting a service man with 2 purple hearts, a bronze and a silver star?"_

Because he didn't earn them and he lied about those who did. Turn about is fair play.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Carla_Danger said:


> LaVoy, passing the first road block was a sign of aggression.



Oh yeah, this post is going to be solid gold in the future...lol


----------



## Vandalshandle

Carla_Danger said:


> LaVoy, passing the first road block was a sign of aggression.



They would have been within their protocol guidelines if they had shot him through the windshield once it became clear that he was not going to stop in front of the parked cars blocking the road. At that point, he became a danger to the lives of the officers manning the roadblock.


----------



## bodecea

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no it was the way John Kerry treated his own comrades, is why he got treated the way he did.  he threw his medals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And lets say he did. Does that somehow undo his military service? Of course not. Putting your life on the line for months at a time isn't 'erased' by throwing pieces of metal over fence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was never, "on the front line".  He was in one firefight the whole time he was in country.
Click to expand...

Brown water Navy wasn't "on the front line"?


----------



## bodecea

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that he served. I don't know him. This is the internet. People lie on the internet.
> 
> For all I know this could be another case of "stolen valor."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly. We have an anonymous guy claiming specific military service. But can't back any of it factually.
> 
> The drunk wanna be militia man claiming to be a Green Beret whose records were 'sealed by Reagan' has a better case than our anonymous poster. As least we can verify the drunk wanna be was a man of an age to make it plausible. The poster could be a kid for all we know. Or a woman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you hate our veterans?
Click to expand...

I am a veteran and am not using his comments as an opportunity to whine about "haters".


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is-and was- too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That you don't know Kerry served reveals your ignorance on the matter.
Click to expand...


H


bodecea said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no it was the way John Kerry treated his own comrades, is why he got treated the way he did.  he threw his medals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And lets say he did. Does that somehow undo his military service? Of course not. Putting your life on the line for months at a time isn't 'erased' by throwing pieces of metal over fence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was never, "on the front line".  He was in one firefight the whole time he was in country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Brown water Navy wasn't "on the front line"?
Click to expand...


No, they weren't.  They had an interdiction mission, only. At no time were they tasked to engage the enemy in pitches battles.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Carla_Danger said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient"
> _
> That would be because some people deserve should be treated according to their actual actions (or lack thereof) instead of propaganda about them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going by your actions on this forum, you deserve no respect.
Click to expand...


I never asked for any and would not value yours in any case.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

bodecea said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that he served. I don't know him. This is the internet. People lie on the internet.
> 
> For all I know this could be another case of "stolen valor."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly. We have an anonymous guy claiming specific military service. But can't back any of it factually.
> 
> The drunk wanna be militia man claiming to be a Green Beret whose records were 'sealed by Reagan' has a better case than our anonymous poster. As least we can verify the drunk wanna be was a man of an age to make it plausible. The poster could be a kid for all we know. Or a woman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you hate our veterans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a veteran and am not using his comments as an opportunity to whine about "haters".
Click to expand...


You should stick for your brothers.


----------



## bodecea

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was.  That was proven.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean?...LMAO!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.......are you *so* desperate to abandon the topic that you'll take *any* reply from *any* poster on the question you asked me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, I love to watch Liberals side with the cops in a shooting.  This is going to be comedy hold the next time a black dude gets shit.
> 
> But, if you people didn't have a double standard, you wouldn't have any standards at all.
Click to expand...

There are many cases where the video shows that a shooting was justified regardless of the color of the person who is shot (or beaten or choked)...but there are many cases also where the video shows that the shooting was NOT justified regardless of the color of the person shot (or beaten or choked).

Which one do you think this is?


----------



## Faun

Steve_McGarrett said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve_McGarrett said:
> 
> 
> 
> New testimony is that the federal agents were screaming at LaVoy to remove his weapon when his hands were up seconds after he got out of his truck. When he complied and attempted to remove it the agent from behind shot him.
> 
> 
> 
> Right...because authorities ALWAYS tell people to remove their weapons.....
> 
> Thank you for proving you are from the shallow end of the gene pool.....once again.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope. That's new trstimony from citizens who were there. LaVoy was baited so he could be executed.
Click to expand...

Umm... the only other citizens who were there were law enforcement agents and law breakers. Which ones do you claim made that assertion?


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> They escalated a peaceful protest
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it was a peaceful protest why did they have assault weapons and make videos promising gunfire?
> 
> You say a lot of stupid shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't think aiming a firearm (assault with a deadly weapon) is an escalation from peaceful protest and discussion? The Feds clearly did that. I doubt we'll ever know if that was Lavoy's intent or not.
Click to expand...

His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for.


----------



## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient"
> _
> That would be because some people deserve should be treated according to their actual actions (or lack thereof) instead of propaganda about them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going by your actions on this forum, you deserve no respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never asked for any and would not value yours in any case.
Click to expand...




Good, because I'll reserve respect for folks who deserve it, including Kerry and his 2 purple hearts, bronze, and silver stars.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is-and was- too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That you don't know Kerry served reveals your ignorance on the matter.
Click to expand...


And your belief that he did shows yours. He did in fact provide great service to the enemy that was killing my friends.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _"Why are you disrespecting a service man with 2 purple hearts, a bronze and a silver star?"_
> 
> Because he didn't earn them and he lied about those who did. Turn about is fair play.


The record shows he did earn them. Why would anyone believe the swift boat vets since they were caught lying about his record?


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

bodecea said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> He was.  That was proven.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean?...LMAO!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.......are you *so* desperate to abandon the topic that you'll take *any* reply from *any* poster on the question you asked me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, I love to watch Liberals side with the cops in a shooting.  This is going to be comedy hold the next time a black dude gets shit.
> 
> But, if you people didn't have a double standard, you wouldn't have any standards at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are many cases where the video shows that a shooting was justified regardless of the color of the person who is shot (or beaten or choked)...but there are many cases also where the video shows that the shooting was NOT justified regardless of the color of the person shot (or beaten or choked).
> 
> Which one do you think this is?
Click to expand...


So far, every case of alledged police brutality has to put to be bullshit.  The well known cases: Garner, Brown, Gray, etc.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is-and was- too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That you don't know Kerry served reveals your ignorance on the matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And your belief that he did shows yours. He did in fact provide great service to the enemy that was killing my friends.
Click to expand...

You're fucking deranged. I know he served. You _should _ know that too.


----------



## rcfieldz

oh well one poor old codger gone....


----------



## bodecea

WildBillKelsoe said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that he served. I don't know him. This is the internet. People lie on the internet.
> 
> For all I know this could be another case of "stolen valor."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly. We have an anonymous guy claiming specific military service. But can't back any of it factually.
> 
> The drunk wanna be militia man claiming to be a Green Beret whose records were 'sealed by Reagan' has a better case than our anonymous poster. As least we can verify the drunk wanna be was a man of an age to make it plausible. The poster could be a kid for all we know. Or a woman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you hate our veterans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a veteran and am not using his comments as an opportunity to whine about "haters".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You should stick for your brothers.
Click to expand...

I don't see my brothers being disrespected....at least the ones that aren't whiny ass babies.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> _"Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient"
> _
> That would be because some people think people should be treated according to their actual actions (or lack thereof) instead of propaganda about them.


So...we are treating YOU based on your actions on this board.  See how that works?


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> _"Why are you disrespecting a service man with 2 purple hearts, a bronze and a silver star?"_
> 
> Because he didn't earn them and he lied about those who did. Turn about is fair play.


Who are you to determine whether Kerry earned those medals or not?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_The shoot was justifiable
_
Of course it was. The Feds are going to justify their own shooting. Why wouldn't they. But do you think friends of LeVoy are going to think it was anything but a planned execution? Again, this was a serious FBI fuck up._._


----------



## bodecea

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is-and was- too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That you don't know Kerry served reveals your ignorance on the matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> H
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice how you don't actually address my point: the loathsome way that John Kerry was treated by the right for his military service. Demonstrating, at the very least, that your ilk tolerate the abuse of veterans as long as its politically convenient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no it was the way John Kerry treated his own comrades, is why he got treated the way he did.  he threw his medals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And lets say he did. Does that somehow undo his military service? Of course not. Putting your life on the line for months at a time isn't 'erased' by throwing pieces of metal over fence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was never, "on the front line".  He was in one firefight the whole time he was in country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Brown water Navy wasn't "on the front line"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, they weren't.  They had an interdiction mission, only. At no time were they tasked to engage the enemy in pitches battles.
Click to expand...

Where WASN'T the front line in Viet Nam....tell us that.


----------



## Steve_McGarrett

bodecea said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the Left respects ANYONE'S service?
> 
> I bet you think Bush 43 was AWOL.  Don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> He was.  That was proven.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean?...LMAO!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.......are you *so* desperate to abandon the topic that you'll take *any* reply from *any* poster on the question you asked me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, I love to watch Liberals side with the cops in a shooting.  This is going to be comedy hold the next time a black dude gets shit.
> 
> But, if you people didn't have a double standard, you wouldn't have any standards at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are many cases where the video shows that a shooting was justified regardless of the color of the person who is shot (or beaten or choked)...but there are many cases also where the video shows that the shooting was NOT justified regardless of the color of the person shot (or beaten or choked).
> 
> Which one do you think this is?
Click to expand...

LaVoy was White. He should have never been shot.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _The shoot was justifiable
> _
> Of course it was. The Feds are going to justify their own shooting. Why wouldn't they. But do you think friends of LeVoy are going to think it was anything but a planned execution? Again, this was a serious FBI fuck up._._


Sure, uh-huh. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The FBI fucked up shooting an armed idiot reaching for his gun while resisting arrest.


----------



## bodecea

WildBillKelsoe said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was.  That was proven.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what I mean?...LMAO!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.......are you *so* desperate to abandon the topic that you'll take *any* reply from *any* poster on the question you asked me?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey, I love to watch Liberals side with the cops in a shooting.  This is going to be comedy hold the next time a black dude gets shit.
> 
> But, if you people didn't have a double standard, you wouldn't have any standards at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are many cases where the video shows that a shooting was justified regardless of the color of the person who is shot (or beaten or choked)...but there are many cases also where the video shows that the shooting was NOT justified regardless of the color of the person shot (or beaten or choked).
> 
> Which one do you think this is?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So far, *every case* of alledged police brutality has to put to be bullshit.  The well known cases: Garner, Brown, Gray, etc.
Click to expand...

ORLY?   The cases where US police have faced killing charges - BBC News

Death of Kelly Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## 9thIDdoc

bodecea said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Why are you disrespecting a service man with 2 purple hearts, a bronze and a silver star?"_
> 
> Because he didn't earn them and he lied about those who did. Turn about is fair play.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you to determine whether Kerry earned those medals or not?
Click to expand...


That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs and had considerable knowledge of what was supposed to be required for those other medals. My judgement agrees with that of his superiors and alleged "brothers in arms".


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_So...we are treating YOU based on your actions on this board. See how that works?_

Sure do and I haven't had any problem with that. But how come Kerry gets credit for his official service record and I don't?


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _"Why are you disrespecting a service man with 2 purple hearts, a bronze and a silver star?"_
> 
> Because he didn't earn them and he lied about those who did. Turn about is fair play.
> 
> 
> 
> Who are you to determine whether Kerry earned those medals or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs and had considerable knowledge of what was supposed to be required for those other medals. My judgement agrees with that of his superiors and alleged "brothers in arms".
Click to expand...

Cool story, bro.    So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there?   Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone.   Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> _So...we are treating YOU based on your actions on this board. See how that works?_
> 
> Sure do and I haven't had any problem with that. But how come Kerry gets credit for his official service record and I don't?


Are you whining now?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._

But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.
> 
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> maybe because it was a snow bank?  Ever walk in one?  hahahahahaahahaha, what a stupid question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holyfuckingshit!
> 
> It's on video. He didn't stumble. He walked for about 15; away from the road block and towards the trees; and then reached for his gun. Unlike everyone else who walked directly to the road block and never lowered their hands until they were restrained.
Click to expand...

funny stuff sherlock.  I guess you missed the fact that he was running and a dude walked out of the woods from the direction he was running and he stopped and from that point you have no fking idea what he was doing.  But you keep telling yourself you have a crystal ball and cards to tell fortunes and shit.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> POS civilians?  lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.
Click to expand...

what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?


Did Law Enforcement have time to determine that "assumption's" validity?


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?



After a high speed chase, resisting arrest and running a police blockade? Obviously. 

The fact that he *was* reaching for a gun only affirms the obvious.


----------



## jc456

9thIDdoc said:


> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?


Yeah cause that's a threat and these hypocrites are saying that a threat warrants death.  can you believe that?  Every cop shooting argued in this forum has always been about the threat.  No gun or weapon in anyones view and it's considered a good kill.  yep the double standards for folks on here is laughable.  All hypocrites everyone of those cop haters.  Convenient for convenience sake.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_

Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
Click to expand...


JC.....your entire argument has been reduced to awkward belligerence. You have nothing to add to this topic. 

If ever you feel the desire to discuss the assholes in oregon, feel free to join us.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Did Law Enforcement have time to determine that "assumption's" validity?
Click to expand...

nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Did Law Enforcement have time to determine that "assumption's" validity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.
Click to expand...


Show us a situation where a black guy resisted arrest, ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase and then reached for a gun.....where any of us claimed the shooting wasn't justified. 

You can't. Ending your entire argument.

This shoot was justified.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

bodecea said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _So...we are treating YOU based on your actions on this board. See how that works?_
> 
> Sure do and I haven't had any problem with that. But how come Kerry gets credit for his official service record and I don't?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you whining now?
Click to expand...


Nope. Are you?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JC.....your entire argument has been reduced to awkward belligerence. You have nothing to add to this topic.
> 
> If ever you feel the desire to discuss the assholes in oregon, feel free to join us.
Click to expand...

I am you stupid fk, I'm telling you you have no idea he had a gun.  you can assume until your ass falls off.  You don't.  You can say whatever you want but you can't say that.  if you do, then you must retract every other statement about threat in any other thread in this forum.  Ok?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Did Law Enforcement have time to determine that "assumption's" validity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show us a situation where a black guy resisted arrest, ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase and then reached for a gun.....where any of us claimed the shooting wasn't justified.
> 
> You can't. Ending your entire argument.
> 
> This shoot was justified.
Click to expand...

sure Ferguson and Chicago.  there's enough info in this forum for you to do a search on that and see it.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JC.....your entire argument has been reduced to awkward belligerence. You have nothing to add to this topic.
> 
> If ever you feel the desire to discuss the assholes in oregon, feel free to join us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am you stupid fk, I'm telling you you have no idea he had a gun.  you can assume until your ass falls off.  You don't.  You can say whatever you want but you can't say that.  if you do, then you must retract every other statement about threat in any other thread in this forum.  Ok?
Click to expand...


No, JC....you're throwing a tantrum. 

When you want to discuss the topic, join us. Until then, curse to your heart's content.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Did Law Enforcement have time to determine that "assumption's" validity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show us a situation where a black guy resisted arrest, ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase and then reached for a gun.....where any of us claimed the shooting wasn't justified.
> 
> You can't. Ending your entire argument.
> 
> This shoot was justified.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure Ferguson and Chicago.  there's enough info in this forum for you to do a search on that and see it.
Click to expand...


No high speed chase, no running of a police blockade in Ferguson. As for Chicago, you'll need to be more specific.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.


I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."

Do you deny saying that?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JC.....your entire argument has been reduced to awkward belligerence. You have nothing to add to this topic.
> 
> If ever you feel the desire to discuss the assholes in oregon, feel free to join us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am you stupid fk, I'm telling you you have no idea he had a gun.  you can assume until your ass falls off.  You don't.  You can say whatever you want but you can't say that.  if you do, then you must retract every other statement about threat in any other thread in this forum.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, JC....you're throwing a tantrum.
> 
> When you want to discuss the topic, join us. Until then, curse to your heart's content.
Click to expand...

hahahahahahahaahah yeah sherlock


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Did Law Enforcement have time to determine that "assumption's" validity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show us a situation where a black guy resisted arrest, ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase and then reached for a gun.....where any of us claimed the shooting wasn't justified.
> 
> You can't. Ending your entire argument.
> 
> This shoot was justified.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure Ferguson and Chicago.  there's enough info in this forum for you to do a search on that and see it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No high speed chase, no running of a police blockade in Ferguson. As for Chicago, you'll need to be more specific.
Click to expand...

sure it does, you should go read about the two incidents. You should also learn what a chase is.

In fact the ferguson incident the criminal actually was inside the cops car and grabbed his gun, but hey he didn't go through a road block. tooooooooooooo funnnnnnnn y


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did Law Enforcement have time to determine that "assumption's" validity?
> 
> 
> 
> nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show us a situation where a black guy resisted arrest, ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase and then reached for a gun.....where any of us claimed the shooting wasn't justified.
> 
> You can't. Ending your entire argument.
> 
> This shoot was justified.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure Ferguson and Chicago.  there's enough info in this forum for you to do a search on that and see it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No high speed chase, no running of a police blockade in Ferguson. As for Chicago, you'll need to be more specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it does, you should go read about the two incidents. You should also learn what a chase is.
Click to expand...


Laughing.....a 'high speed chase' on foot, huh?

Like I said, you've got nothing to contribute to the conversation. Come back when you do.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show us a situation where a black guy resisted arrest, ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase and then reached for a gun.....where any of us claimed the shooting wasn't justified.
> 
> You can't. Ending your entire argument.
> 
> This shoot was justified.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure Ferguson and Chicago.  there's enough info in this forum for you to do a search on that and see it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No high speed chase, no running of a police blockade in Ferguson. As for Chicago, you'll need to be more specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it does, you should go read about the two incidents. You should also learn what a chase is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....a 'high speed chase' on foot, huh?
> 
> Like I said, you've got nothing to contribute to the conversation. Come back when you do.
Click to expand...

yep, high speed as fast as the dudes could go.  that's high speed when eluding the police

BTW, you still need to learn what a chase is when eluding the cops.


----------



## Skylar

This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.

And police shot him.

As they should have.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show us a situation where a black guy resisted arrest, ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase and then reached for a gun.....where any of us claimed the shooting wasn't justified.
> 
> You can't. Ending your entire argument.
> 
> This shoot was justified.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure Ferguson and Chicago.  there's enough info in this forum for you to do a search on that and see it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No high speed chase, no running of a police blockade in Ferguson. As for Chicago, you'll need to be more specific.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it does, you should go read about the two incidents. You should also learn what a chase is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....a 'high speed chase' on foot, huh?
> 
> Like I said, you've got nothing to contribute to the conversation. Come back when you do.
Click to expand...

unfortunately, you don't get to decide eh?

So answer the question mr. double standard dude. what is a threat?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.


yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_The record shows he did earn them. Why would anyone believe the swift boat vets since they were caught lying about his record?
_
No, the record shows that he was awarded them; not that he earned them. And what about the real swift boat sailors? Kerry was awarded  his medals(before he begged and pleaded to be released from the combat duty he had requested) but the real swift boat sailors didn't earn the ones they were awarded while actually doing their duty? A why would anybody believe Kerry when he was caught on the record lying under oath to congress (a crime)?


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
Click to expand...


Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.

That only took 6 pages.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> _The record shows he did earn them. Why would anyone believe the swift boat vets since they were caught lying about his record?
> _
> No, the record shows that he was awarded them; not that he earned them. And what about the real swift boat sailors? Kerry was awarded  his medals(before he begged and pleaded to be released from the combat duty he had requested) but the real swift boat sailors didn't earn the ones they were awarded while actually doing their duty? A why would anybody believe Kerry when he was caught on the record lying under oath to congress (a crime)?



Says you, citing yourself. I'll go with his military service record over whatever hapless batshit you make up anyday.

As would any rational person. Any other attempts to avoid the topic of the thread you'd like to offer us?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
Click to expand...

No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The shoot was justifiable
> _
> Of course it was. The Feds are going to justify their own shooting. Why wouldn't they. But do you think friends of LeVoy are going to think it was anything but a planned execution? Again, this was a serious FBI fuck up._._
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, uh-huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI fucked up shooting an armed idiot reaching for his gun while resisting arrest.
Click to expand...


What part of that did you not understand?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The record shows he did earn them. Why would anyone believe the swift boat vets since they were caught lying about his record?
> _
> No, the record shows that he was awarded them; not that he earned them. And what about the real swift boat sailors? Kerry was awarded  his medals(before he begged and pleaded to be released from the combat duty he had requested) but the real swift boat sailors didn't earn the ones they were awarded while actually doing their duty? A why would anybody believe Kerry when he was caught on the record lying under oath to congress (a crime)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. I'll go with his military service record over whatever hapless batshit you make up anyday.
> 
> As would any rational person. Any other attempts to avoid the topic of the thread you'd like to offer us?
Click to expand...

nothing made up, all facts.  Again with the citing yourself, is he looking in the mirror as he posts?  Is that what that means?


----------



## jc456

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The shoot was justifiable
> _
> Of course it was. The Feds are going to justify their own shooting. Why wouldn't they. But do you think friends of LeVoy are going to think it was anything but a planned execution? Again, this was a serious FBI fuck up._._
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, uh-huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI fucked up shooting an armed idiot reaching for his gun while resisting arrest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What part of that did you not understand?
Click to expand...

the fact part.  He has problems with that.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
Click to expand...


You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.

Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.

You've already admitted as much.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The shoot was justifiable
> _
> Of course it was. The Feds are going to justify their own shooting. Why wouldn't they. But do you think friends of LeVoy are going to think it was anything but a planned execution? Again, this was a serious FBI fuck up._._
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, uh-huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI fucked up shooting an armed idiot reaching for his gun while resisting arrest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What part of that did you not understand?
Click to expand...


The part where the FBI 'fucked up'. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. There's not a thing they should have done differently. 

Lavoy wanted suicide by cop. He got it.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
Click to expand...

no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
Click to expand...


You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.

There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.

As they should have.

You can't backpedal your way out of it now.


----------



## Camp

Festus the cowpoke committed suicide by cop. His supporters don't want to admit he was a stupid jackass for doing that. He could be chowing down on a baloney and imitation cheese sandwich and a jello dessert with his comrades at this very moment, but he chose to be the dead guy instead.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> _The record shows he did earn them. Why would anyone believe the swift boat vets since they were caught lying about his record?
> _
> No, *the record shows that he was awarded them; not that he earned them.* And what about the real swift boat sailors? Kerry was awarded  his medals(before he begged and pleaded to be released from the combat duty he had requested) but the real swift boat sailors didn't earn the ones they were awarded while actually doing their duty? A why would anybody believe Kerry when he was caught on the record lying under oath to congress (a crime)?


Yeah, you really know how the military works.......NOT.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

bodecea said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
Click to expand...


Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
Click to expand...

You most certainly did....you never quantified your statement...and now you are backpedaling....Mr. Expert on PHs so you know all about Kerry's being un-earned.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.
> 
> 
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> JC.....your entire argument has been reduced to awkward belligerence. You have nothing to add to this topic.
> 
> If ever you feel the desire to discuss the assholes in oregon, feel free to join us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am you stupid fk, I'm telling you you have no idea he had a gun.  you can assume until your ass falls off.  You don't.  You can say whatever you want but you can't say that.  if you do, then you must retract every other statement about threat in any other thread in this forum.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, JC....you're throwing a tantrum.
> 
> When you want to discuss the topic, join us. Until then, curse to your heart's content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahahahahahaahah yeah sherlock
Click to expand...




Do these people seem sane to you?  A simple yes or no will do.


----------



## Skylar

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JC.....your entire argument has been reduced to awkward belligerence. You have nothing to add to this topic.
> 
> If ever you feel the desire to discuss the assholes in oregon, feel free to join us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am you stupid fk, I'm telling you you have no idea he had a gun.  you can assume until your ass falls off.  You don't.  You can say whatever you want but you can't say that.  if you do, then you must retract every other statement about threat in any other thread in this forum.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, JC....you're throwing a tantrum.
> 
> When you want to discuss the topic, join us. Until then, curse to your heart's content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahahahahahaahah yeah sherlock
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do these people seem sane to you?  A simple yes or no will do.
Click to expand...


They look like morons who have forgotten the first rule of Cosplay:

Don't use real bullets.


----------



## charwin95

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.
> 
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> maybe because it was a snow bank?  Ever walk in one?  hahahahahaahahaha, what a stupid question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holyfuckingshit!
> 
> It's on video. He didn't stumble. He walked for about 15; away from the road block and towards the trees; and then reached for his gun. Unlike everyone else who walked directly to the road block and never lowered their hands until they were restrained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> funny stuff sherlock.  I guess you missed the fact that he was running and a dude walked out of the woods from the direction he was running and he stopped and from that point you have no fking idea what he was doing.  But you keep telling yourself you have a crystal ball and cards to tell fortunes and shit.
Click to expand...


Your brain is tricking your eyes and your fingers kid...... Take a shower and come back it might wake you up.


----------



## Camp

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
Click to expand...

Hard to believe you do not know how the Swift boaters were discredited, caught lying, recanted, etc. while Kerry's boatmates and even the Green Beret he rescued came out and publicly supported his actions and the way in which he earned his accommodations. You know that the bottom line is that someone in a medical detachment, like yourself, signed a document confirming Kerry was treated for a combat wound, an injury sustained while in combat, and that is how he got his three Purple Hearts.


----------



## jc456

charwin95 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.
> 
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> maybe because it was a snow bank?  Ever walk in one?  hahahahahaahahaha, what a stupid question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holyfuckingshit!
> 
> It's on video. He didn't stumble. He walked for about 15; away from the road block and towards the trees; and then reached for his gun. Unlike everyone else who walked directly to the road block and never lowered their hands until they were restrained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> funny stuff sherlock.  I guess you missed the fact that he was running and a dude walked out of the woods from the direction he was running and he stopped and from that point you have no fking idea what he was doing.  But you keep telling yourself you have a crystal ball and cards to tell fortunes and shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your brain is tricking your eyes and your fingers kid...... Take a shower and come back it might wake you up.
Click to expand...

I'll leave fondling to you since you are so obviously proud of yours.


----------



## Dot Com

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.[emoji38]
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
Click to expand...

yeah come on Allie. Enough w/your soveriegn citizen or end time sourcing. Its making you look foolish


----------



## Camp

charwin95 said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> He came out with hands up and was losing his footing. He didnt have a gun on him.  It looks to me like hr was shot by the shooter on the right, dropped his hands and was shot again. Incidentally...when an armed person is shot at that close range, the first thing law enfforcement does is remove the weapon. No weapon, they knew it. They started shooting the vehicle when it was initially stopped, when everybody inside was holding their hands up except for the girl in the back, a Christian singer, who was on the floorboards. When they shot the stopped vehicle repeatedly is when lavoy took off. He bailed because he was drawing fire. Nobody returned fire, there was no shootout. They complied until the feds started shooting at the stationary car full of people with their hands up.
> 
> Lavoy came out with his hands up and asked to talk to the sheriff. They shot him, his hand dropped, and they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.
> 
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> maybe because it was a snow bank?  Ever walk in one?  hahahahahaahahaha, what a stupid question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holyfuckingshit!
> 
> It's on video. He didn't stumble. He walked for about 15; away from the road block and towards the trees; and then reached for his gun. Unlike everyone else who walked directly to the road block and never lowered their hands until they were restrained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> funny stuff sherlock.  I guess you missed the fact that he was running and a dude walked out of the woods from the direction he was running and he stopped and from that point you have no fking idea what he was doing.  But you keep telling yourself you have a crystal ball and cards to tell fortunes and shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your brain is tricking your eyes and your fingers kid...... Take a shower and come back it might wake you up.
Click to expand...

He is not that bright to start with. Kind of like one of those plug in nightlights. A shower won't make much difference or improvement.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
Click to expand...

I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?

Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> JC.....your entire argument has been reduced to awkward belligerence. You have nothing to add to this topic.
> 
> If ever you feel the desire to discuss the assholes in oregon, feel free to join us.
> 
> 
> 
> I am you stupid fk, I'm telling you you have no idea he had a gun.  you can assume until your ass falls off.  You don't.  You can say whatever you want but you can't say that.  if you do, then you must retract every other statement about threat in any other thread in this forum.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, JC....you're throwing a tantrum.
> 
> When you want to discuss the topic, join us. Until then, curse to your heart's content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahahahahahaahah yeah sherlock
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do these people seem sane to you?  A simple yes or no will do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They look like morons who have forgotten the first rule of Cosplay:
> 
> Don't use real bullets.
Click to expand...

 are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're such a dupe.
> 
> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
> 
> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
> 
> 
> 
> maybe because it was a snow bank?  Ever walk in one?  hahahahahaahahaha, what a stupid question.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Holyfuckingshit!
> 
> It's on video. He didn't stumble. He walked for about 15; away from the road block and towards the trees; and then reached for his gun. Unlike everyone else who walked directly to the road block and never lowered their hands until they were restrained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> funny stuff sherlock.  I guess you missed the fact that he was running and a dude walked out of the woods from the direction he was running and he stopped and from that point you have no fking idea what he was doing.  But you keep telling yourself you have a crystal ball and cards to tell fortunes and shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your brain is tricking your eyes and your fingers kid...... Take a shower and come back it might wake you up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is not that bright to start with. Kind of like one of those plug in nightlights. A shower won't make much difference or improvement.
Click to expand...

only you would know.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
Click to expand...


You said 'its only a threat if'.

There is no 'if'. When LaVoy runs a police blockage, resists arrest, leads the cops on a high speed chase and reaches for a gun, the cops are justified in shooting him.

All your backpedalling not withstanding.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
Click to expand...




You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.


----------



## Skylar

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
Click to expand...


That's it exactly. JC is desperate to talk about anything but these assholes making trouble in Oregon. 

And is throwing a tantrum when we won't let him change the topic.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe because it was a snow bank?  Ever walk in one?  hahahahahaahahaha, what a stupid question.
> 
> 
> 
> Holyfuckingshit!
> 
> It's on video. He didn't stumble. He walked for about 15; away from the road block and towards the trees; and then reached for his gun. Unlike everyone else who walked directly to the road block and never lowered their hands until they were restrained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> funny stuff sherlock.  I guess you missed the fact that he was running and a dude walked out of the woods from the direction he was running and he stopped and from that point you have no fking idea what he was doing.  But you keep telling yourself you have a crystal ball and cards to tell fortunes and shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your brain is tricking your eyes and your fingers kid...... Take a shower and come back it might wake you up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is not that bright to start with. Kind of like one of those plug in nightlights. A shower won't make much difference or improvement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> only you would know.
Click to expand...

Lots of folks who see and read your postings know it. What do you think, your dysfunctional analytical skills are hidden?


----------



## Camp

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
Click to expand...

He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JC.....your entire argument has been reduced to awkward belligerence. You have nothing to add to this topic.
> 
> If ever you feel the desire to discuss the assholes in oregon, feel free to join us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am you stupid fk, I'm telling you you have no idea he had a gun.  you can assume until your ass falls off.  You don't.  You can say whatever you want but you can't say that.  if you do, then you must retract every other statement about threat in any other thread in this forum.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, JC....you're throwing a tantrum.
> 
> When you want to discuss the topic, join us. Until then, curse to your heart's content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahahahahahaahah yeah sherlock
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do these people seem sane to you?  A simple yes or no will do.
Click to expand...


That ole boy could do with a spell up at the nervous hospital.


----------



## Skylar

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holyfuckingshit!
> 
> It's on video. He didn't stumble. He walked for about 15; away from the road block and towards the trees; and then reached for his gun. Unlike everyone else who walked directly to the road block and never lowered their hands until they were restrained.
> 
> 
> 
> funny stuff sherlock.  I guess you missed the fact that he was running and a dude walked out of the woods from the direction he was running and he stopped and from that point you have no fking idea what he was doing.  But you keep telling yourself you have a crystal ball and cards to tell fortunes and shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your brain is tricking your eyes and your fingers kid...... Take a shower and come back it might wake you up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is not that bright to start with. Kind of like one of those plug in nightlights. A shower won't make much difference or improvement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> only you would know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lots of folks who see and read your postings know it. What do you think, your dysfunctional analytical skills are hidden?
Click to expand...


I'm still giggling at the 'if the government isn't in the building for 24 hours, the building is abandoned under the law' nonsense he offered us.

That's some fine quality pseudo-legal batshit.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
Click to expand...

sure I can, I did it. It was easy.  didn't cause me any pain either.  the funny thing, they are all the same thing except for color of skin.  And yet it seems the color of the skin determines justification in your eyes.  funny how that works.


----------



## jc456

Hutch Starskey said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> JC.....your entire argument has been reduced to awkward belligerence. You have nothing to add to this topic.
> 
> If ever you feel the desire to discuss the assholes in oregon, feel free to join us.
> 
> 
> 
> I am you stupid fk, I'm telling you you have no idea he had a gun.  you can assume until your ass falls off.  You don't.  You can say whatever you want but you can't say that.  if you do, then you must retract every other statement about threat in any other thread in this forum.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, JC....you're throwing a tantrum.
> 
> When you want to discuss the topic, join us. Until then, curse to your heart's content.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahahahahahaahah yeah sherlock
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do these people seem sane to you?  A simple yes or no will do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That ole boy could do with a spell up at the nervous hospital.
Click to expand...

the bed is all yours pup.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> 
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure I can, I did it. It was easy.  didn't cause me any pain either.  the funny thing, they are all the same thing except for color of skin.  And yet it seems the color of the skin determines justification in your eyes.  funny how that works.
Click to expand...




No they're not. They're not the same at all. You are engaging in false comparison fallacies.

And you never answered my question.  Do these people seem sane to you?  A simple yes or no will do.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> 
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's it exactly. JC is desperate to talk about anything but these assholes making trouble in Oregon.
> 
> And is throwing a tantrum when we won't let him change the topic.
Click to expand...

hahahahahaahahahaha a typical losers post. skylar the loser,  there you go what a ring that has.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's it exactly. JC is desperate to talk about anything but these assholes making trouble in Oregon.
> 
> And is throwing a tantrum when we won't let him change the topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahahahaahahahaha a typical losers post. skylar the loser,  there you go what a ring that has.
Click to expand...

Go take one of your pills. If you are confused about which one, just take one of each.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure I can, I did it. It was easy.  didn't cause me any pain either.  the funny thing, they are all the same thing except for color of skin.  And yet it seems the color of the skin determines justification in your eyes.  funny how that works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they're not. They're not the same at all. You are engaging in false comparison fallacies.
> 
> And you never answered my question.  Do these people seem sane to you?  A simple yes or no will do.
Click to expand...

sure they are.

I don't profile.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> 
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
Click to expand...

I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> charwin95 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> funny stuff sherlock.  I guess you missed the fact that he was running and a dude walked out of the woods from the direction he was running and he stopped and from that point you have no fking idea what he was doing.  But you keep telling yourself you have a crystal ball and cards to tell fortunes and shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your brain is tricking your eyes and your fingers kid...... Take a shower and come back it might wake you up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is not that bright to start with. Kind of like one of those plug in nightlights. A shower won't make much difference or improvement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> only you would know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lots of folks who see and read your postings know it. What do you think, your dysfunctional analytical skills are hidden?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm still giggling at the 'if the government isn't in the building for 24 hours, the building is abandoned under the law' nonsense he offered us.
> 
> That's some fine quality pseudo-legal batshit.
Click to expand...

i thought you were giggling cause of your fingers.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's it exactly. JC is desperate to talk about anything but these assholes making trouble in Oregon.
> 
> And is throwing a tantrum when we won't let him change the topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahahahaahahahaha a typical losers post. skylar the loser,  there you go what a ring that has.
Click to expand...

I see you are in need of some attention.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.
Click to expand...




Changing the subject again, you big dummy?

What did you win, a free vacation tomorrow at the Turd Sanctuary?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.
Click to expand...

I can see the attention you get and the victories you declare on an anonymous message board are very precious to you.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> 
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure I can, I did it. It was easy.  didn't cause me any pain either.  the funny thing, they are all the same thing except for color of skin.  And yet it seems the color of the skin determines justification in your eyes.  funny how that works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they're not. They're not the same at all. You are engaging in false comparison fallacies.
> 
> And you never answered my question.  Do these people seem sane to you?  A simple yes or no will do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure they are.
> 
> I don't profile.
Click to expand...




Why don't you show your support and go join them?


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure I can, I did it. It was easy.  didn't cause me any pain either.  the funny thing, they are all the same thing except for color of skin.  And yet it seems the color of the skin determines justification in your eyes.  funny how that works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No they're not. They're not the same at all. You are engaging in false comparison fallacies.
> 
> And you never answered my question.  Do these people seem sane to you?  A simple yes or no will do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure they are.
> 
> I don't profile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you show your support and go join them?
Click to expand...

who?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> 
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can see the attention you get and the victories you declare on an anonymous message board are very precious to you.
Click to expand...

no different than anyone else on here.  Why else would you be here?


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.
Click to expand...

Does somebody give you a prize when you tell them you "won" in "here"? See, I was right about the benghazism. You just confirmed you are afflicted with it. Now do as you were told and go take those pills.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> 
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Changing the subject again, you big dummy?
> 
> What did you win, a free vacation tomorrow at the Turd Sanctuary?
Click to expand...

I thought you won that one yesterday and the day before.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can see the attention you get and the victories you declare on an anonymous message board are very precious to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no different than anyone else on here.  Why else would you be here?
Click to expand...

Give this guy a break, guys.....can't you see how needy he is?


----------



## Skylar

So can we agree about two things?

First, that the Lavoy shooting was justified. 

Two, JC is just trying to change the topic.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_Says you, citing yourself. I'll go with his military service record over whatever hapless batshit you make up anyday.

As would any rational person. Any other attempts to avoid the topic of the thread you'd like to offer us?_

Apparently you've never actually read the records you claim to cite. I have.
Those records include Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony (Congressional record) the CID investigation of his claims, the book Unfit for Command, the citations for his medals (those that are available) and the opinions of his superiors. Read the records.Please.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> 
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does somebody give you a prize when you tell them you "won" in "here"? See, I was right about the benghazism. You just confirmed you are afflicted with it. Now do as you were told and go take those pills.
Click to expand...

why do you think that's how this works?  hmmmm,  anyone voting for Hillary is telling the Benghazi families it was justified.  Ouch, my what a bunch of pigs those voters would be.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can see the attention you get and the victories you declare on an anonymous message board are very precious to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no different than anyone else on here.  Why else would you be here?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give this guy a break, guys.....can't you see how needy he is?
Click to expand...

haha and here you are continuing with it.  ewwwwwwwwwww talk about someone needy.  LMAO.


----------



## jc456

9thIDdoc said:


> _Says you, citing yourself. I'll go with his military service record over whatever hapless batshit you make up anyday.
> 
> As would any rational person. Any other attempts to avoid the topic of the thread you'd like to offer us?_
> 
> Apparently you've never actually read the records you claim to cite. I have.
> Those records include Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony (Congressional record) the CID investigation of his claims, the book Unfit for Command, the citations for his medals (those that are available) and the opinions of his superiors. Read the records.Please.


ah now there you go using facts, you're just going to confuse the punks.


----------



## Camp

Skylar said:


> So can we agree about two things?
> 
> First, that the Lavoy shooting was justified.
> 
> Two, JC is just trying to change the topic.


Sounds reasonable


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> So can we agree about two things?
> 
> First, that the Lavoy shooting was justified.
> 
> Two, JC is just trying to change the topic.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds reasonable
Click to expand...

feel better now?  wow you can agree you're right. wow now convince others and you fail.  That's called losing.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> _Says you, citing yourself. I'll go with his military service record over whatever hapless batshit you make up anyday.
> 
> As would any rational person. Any other attempts to avoid the topic of the thread you'd like to offer us?_
> 
> Apparently you've never actually read the records you claim to cite. I have.
> Those records include Kerry's "Winter Soldier" testimony (Congressional record) the CID investigation of his claims, the book Unfit for Command, the citations for his medals (those that are available) and the opinions of his superiors. Read the records.Please.


Fascinating.  You just admitted that you hold his military record as being unearned NOT because you've read his military record but because you don't like what he did and wrote later on.   And yes I've read the citations and his FITREPS also....show us in those citations what it is that is "unearned".


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_The part where the FBI 'fucked up'. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. There's not a thing they should have done differently. 

Lavoy wanted suicide by cop. He got it._

Doesn't matter whether you or I_ think_ they acted correctly. What really matters is what his comrades think and I'm afraid they're going to believe it was a simple premeditated murder.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _So...we are treating YOU based on your actions on this board. See how that works?_
> 
> Sure do and I haven't had any problem with that. But how come Kerry gets credit for his official service record and I don't?


For one thing, we know beyond any shadow of doubt that carry actually served in Vietnam. The same can't be said for you.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?


Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> _The part where the FBI 'fucked up'. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. There's not a thing they should have done differently.
> 
> Lavoy wanted suicide by cop. He got it._
> 
> Doesn't matter whether you or I_ think_ they acted correctly. What really matters is what his comrades think and I'm afraid they're going to believe it was a simple premeditated murder.



In their 'new civil war', what the rest of us think is immediately relevant. As this entire situation demonstrates elegantly, the 'militia' doesn't have anything approaching the numbers it needs. Not by orders and orders of magnitude. 

And a man who reached for a gun after running a police blockade and resisting arrest isn't going to be much of a recruiting tool.

The insane rants that jowly drunk militia men are offering up on youtube from Oregon? We're going to be mocking these stupid fucks for *years*. They've done more damage to their movement with this nonsense than any 10 operations by the FBI.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its the 'you can't criticize me, I'm a veteran' schtick. The last refuge of the militia sympathists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
Click to expand...

His language is English. If you need lessons, I suggest you go back and finish grade school.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
Click to expand...

exactly, and why people get shot by cops most often.   Agree?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said respect him and his service. I never said you had to agree with him.
> 
> Ya see, that's the problem with Liberals, you have no respect for anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His language is English. If you need lessons, I suggest you go back and finish grade school.
Click to expand...

are you citing yourself?


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The part where the FBI 'fucked up'. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. There's not a thing they should have done differently.
> 
> Lavoy wanted suicide by cop. He got it._
> 
> Doesn't matter whether you or I_ think_ they acted correctly. What really matters is what his comrades think and I'm afraid they're going to believe it was a simple premeditated murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In their 'new civil war', what the rest of us think is immediately relevant. As this entire situation demonstrates elegantly, the 'militia' doesn't have anything approaching the numbers it needs. Not by orders and orders of magnitude.
> 
> And a man who reached for a gun after running a police blockade and resisting arrest isn't going to be much of a recruiting tool.
> 
> The insane rants that jowly drunk militia men are offering up on youtube from Oregon? We're going to be mocking these stupid fucks for *years*. They've done more damage to their movement with this nonsense than any 10 operations by the FBI.
Click to expand...

hey, BTW, when he hopped out of the car, how fast you think he was moving?

I'll bet those two guys standing still shooting at him must have thought he was flying.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Did Law Enforcement have time to determine that "assumption's" validity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.
Click to expand...

The color of Finicum's skin doesn't matter. WTF is wrong with you?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Did Law Enforcement have time to determine that "assumption's" validity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The color of Finicum's skin doesn't matter. WTF is wrong with you?
Click to expand...

why does it matter then for Ferguson and Chicago?


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like the right respected John Kerry for his service, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His language is English. If you need lessons, I suggest you go back and finish grade school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are you citing yourself?
Click to expand...

No, I'm citing you. You just asked for someone to teach you English. I'm only pointing out that no one here is going to waste their time doing that.  So being the kind hearted liberal I am, I offered you a suggestion where you could get educated.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Did Law Enforcement have time to determine that "assumption's" validity?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope and neither does any cop in that same situation. And yet if there is a black dude in the position of this old cowboy, it isn't justified.  Just fkn funny libturd, fkn funny.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The color of Finicum's skin doesn't matter. WTF is wrong with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why does it matter then for Ferguson and Chicago?
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter to me.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The part where the FBI 'fucked up'. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. There's not a thing they should have done differently.
> 
> Lavoy wanted suicide by cop. He got it._
> 
> Doesn't matter whether you or I_ think_ they acted correctly. What really matters is what his comrades think and I'm afraid they're going to believe it was a simple premeditated murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In their 'new civil war', what the rest of us think is immediately relevant. As this entire situation demonstrates elegantly, the 'militia' doesn't have anything approaching the numbers it needs. Not by orders and orders of magnitude.
> 
> And a man who reached for a gun after running a police blockade and resisting arrest isn't going to be much of a recruiting tool.
> 
> The insane rants that jowly drunk militia men are offering up on youtube from Oregon? We're going to be mocking these stupid fucks for *years*. They've done more damage to their movement with this nonsense than any 10 operations by the FBI.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hey, BTW, when he hopped out of the car, how fast you think he was moving?
> 
> I'll bet those two guys standing still shooting at him must have thought he was flying.
Click to expand...


Um, what? You're just gibbering now. Come back when you have something relevant to offer.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_Fascinating. You just admitted that you hold his military record as being unearned NOT because you've read his military record but because you don't like what he did and wrote later on. And yes I've read the citations and his FITREPS also....show us in those citations what it is that is "unearned"._

_I "admitted" no such thing. _His record (military and otherwise) is what it is. I disagree that he did in fact *earn* 3 PHs or his awards for valor The book "Unfit for Command" shows that the people who served with him agree. His testimony before Congress was in reference to Vietnam and atrocities alleged to have been committed there (by me and my friends-which makes it personal) and was refuted by CID. He is a proven liar. That is simply a matter of record. You wanna talk about records include that one.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Service? What service? John Kerry is too busy is too busy serving himself to serve anyone else. Always has been; always will be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says you, citing yourself. The US military says otherwise. And they're an infinitely better source on who served than you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what the fk does citing yourself mean?  Can you teach me your language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His language is English. If you need lessons, I suggest you go back and finish grade school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> are you citing yourself?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I'm citing you. You just asked for someone to teach you English. I'm only pointing out that no one here is going to waste their time doing that.  So being the kind hearted liberal I am, I offered you a suggestion where you could get educated.
Click to expand...

well it does me no good if you don't learn to read it.


----------



## Dot Com

Wheres Allie? This proves her sovereign Citizen's sourcing as crap: WATCH: FBI releases LaVoy Finicium shooting video showing he went for his gun — twice


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The part where the FBI 'fucked up'. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. There's not a thing they should have done differently.
> 
> Lavoy wanted suicide by cop. He got it._
> 
> Doesn't matter whether you or I_ think_ they acted correctly. What really matters is what his comrades think and I'm afraid they're going to believe it was a simple premeditated murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In their 'new civil war', what the rest of us think is immediately relevant. As this entire situation demonstrates elegantly, the 'militia' doesn't have anything approaching the numbers it needs. Not by orders and orders of magnitude.
> 
> And a man who reached for a gun after running a police blockade and resisting arrest isn't going to be much of a recruiting tool.
> 
> The insane rants that jowly drunk militia men are offering up on youtube from Oregon? We're going to be mocking these stupid fucks for *years*. They've done more damage to their movement with this nonsense than any 10 operations by the FBI.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hey, BTW, when he hopped out of the car, how fast you think he was moving?
> 
> I'll bet those two guys standing still shooting at him must have thought he was flying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Um, what? You're just gibbering now. Come back when you have something relevant to offer.
Click to expand...

hey, BTW, when he hopped out of the car, how fast you think he was moving?

I'll bet those two guys standing still shooting at him must have thought he was flying.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

bodecea said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You most certainly did....you never quantified your statement...and now you are backpedaling....Mr. Expert on PHs so you know all about Kerry's being un-earned.
Click to expand...

'

Again, I never made any such statement. Dishonest on your part.


----------



## Skylar

Dot Com said:


> Wheres Allie? This proves her sovereign Citizen's sourcing as crap: WATCH: FBI releases LaVoy Finicium shooting video showing he went for his gun — twice



These poor souls believe that whatever they imagine is the law. You think they're going to let something as trivial as a video change their perspective on how reality works?


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> _Fascinating. You just admitted that you hold his military record as being unearned NOT because you've read his military record but because you don't like what he did and wrote later on. And yes I've read the citations and his FITREPS also....show us in those citations what it is that is "unearned"._
> 
> _I "admitted" no such thing. _His record (military and otherwise) is what it is. I disagree that he did in fact *earn* 3 PHs or his awards for valor The book "Unfit for Command" shows that the people who served with him agree. His testimony before Congress was in reference to Vietnam and atrocities alleged to have been committed there (by me and my friends-which makes it personal) and was refuted by CID. He is a proven liar. That is simply a matter of record. You wanna talk about records include that one.


Those people served WITH him?   Are you quite sure?   And if they did serve with him, why weren't their take on things taken into consideration when he was put in for his Silver Star?   

You don't like him...we get that.  That doesn't make his medals any less valid.  But as was said....we know for a fact that he DID serve in Viet Nam....you, we only have the word of a nic on a message board.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Camp said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hard to believe you do not know how the Swift boaters were discredited, caught lying, recanted, etc. while Kerry's boatmates and even the Green Beret he rescued came out and publicly supported his actions and the way in which he earned his accommodations. You know that the bottom line is that someone in a medical detachment, like yourself, signed a document confirming Kerry was treated for a combat wound, an injury sustained while in combat, and that is how he got his three Purple Hearts.
Click to expand...


Untrue. The swift boaters were never refuted in any important detail. In fact there was offered a million dollars prize offered to anyone who could prove a lie in their book. You are delusional.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You most certainly did....you never quantified your statement...and now you are backpedaling....Mr. Expert on PHs so you know all about Kerry's being un-earned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> 
> Again, I never made any such statement. Dishonest on your part.
Click to expand...

We are totally capable of reading what you claim.


----------



## jc456

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You most certainly did....you never quantified your statement...and now you are backpedaling....Mr. Expert on PHs so you know all about Kerry's being un-earned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> 
> Again, I never made any such statement. Dishonest on your part.
Click to expand...

dude, they make shit up, it is the libturd way. they have no integrity at all.  They don't have class either.  Debating anything with them is hilarious.  making shit up and then posting up you said something you never did to get you to say it.  It's fkn amazing their zombie way.


----------



## Dot Com

9thIDdoc said:


> _The part where the FBI 'fucked up'. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. There's not a thing they should have done differently.
> 
> Lavoy wanted suicide by cop. He got it._
> 
> Doesn't matter whether you or I_ think_ they acted correctly. What really matters is what his comrades think and I'm afraid they're going to believe it was a simple premeditated murder.


WATCH: FBI releases LaVoy Finicium shooting video showing he went for his gun — twice

then his "comrades' would be just like you and 90% of the rw 'ers here-  rw kool aid drinkers


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You most certainly did....you never quantified your statement...and now you are backpedaling....Mr. Expert on PHs so you know all about Kerry's being un-earned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> 
> Again, I never made any such statement. Dishonest on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are totally capable of reading what you claim.
Click to expand...

no you aren't.  He never made the claim.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_You don't like him...we get that. That doesn't make his medals any less valid. But as was said....we know for a fact that he DID serve in Viet Nam....you, we only have the word of a nic on a message board_

.Bullshit. My service is as well documented as his. I never put myself in for a medal nor would I have accepted a PH for a self inflicted shaving cut.


----------



## jc456

9thIDdoc said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hard to believe you do not know how the Swift boaters were discredited, caught lying, recanted, etc. while Kerry's boatmates and even the Green Beret he rescued came out and publicly supported his actions and the way in which he earned his accommodations. You know that the bottom line is that someone in a medical detachment, like yourself, signed a document confirming Kerry was treated for a combat wound, an injury sustained while in combat, and that is how he got his three Purple Hearts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Untrue. The swift boaters were never refuted in any important detail. In fact there was offered a million dollars prize offered to anyone who could prove a lie in their book. You are delusional.
Click to expand...

he's a libturd and that automatically qualifies him as delusional.  It's redundant.


----------



## jc456

Dot Com said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The part where the FBI 'fucked up'. They did exactly what they were supposed to do. There's not a thing they should have done differently.
> 
> Lavoy wanted suicide by cop. He got it._
> 
> Doesn't matter whether you or I_ think_ they acted correctly. What really matters is what his comrades think and I'm afraid they're going to believe it was a simple premeditated murder.
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH: FBI releases LaVoy Finicium shooting video showing he went for his gun — twice
> 
> then his "comrades' would be just like you and 90% of the rw 'ers here-  rw kool aid drinkers
Click to expand...

what's the difference from the libturd kool aid you drink bubba?  Other than the facts follow us.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> _You don't like him...we get that. That doesn't make his medals any less valid. But as was said....we know for a fact that he DID serve in Viet Nam....you, we only have the word of a nic on a message board_
> 
> .Bullshit. My service is as well documented as his. I never put myself in for a medal nor would I have accepted a PH for a self inflicted shaving cut.


Sure it is.  Cool story, bro.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _The record shows he did earn them. Why would anyone believe the swift boat vets since they were caught lying about his record?
> _
> No, the record shows that he was awarded them; not that he earned them. And what about the real swift boat sailors? Kerry was awarded  his medals(before he begged and pleaded to be released from the combat duty he had requested) but the real swift boat sailors didn't earn the ones they were awarded while actually doing their duty? A why would anybody believe Kerry when he was caught on the record lying under oath to congress (a crime)?


Of course he earned them. WTF is wrong with you? His Bronze & Silver Stars were accompanied with citations describing his heroic efforts to earn them.

But thanks again for demonstrating there are also righties who disrespect vets.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
Click to expand...

Lay off the smack, it's fucking with your brain. The other cop shootings have absolutely nothing to do with this one. Whether the others were justifiable or not has no bearing on the justification of this shooting.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The shoot was justifiable
> _
> Of course it was. The Feds are going to justify their own shooting. Why wouldn't they. But do you think friends of LeVoy are going to think it was anything but a planned execution? Again, this was a serious FBI fuck up._._
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, uh-huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI fucked up shooting an armed idiot reaching for his gun while resisting arrest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What part of that did you not understand?
Click to expand...

How you could be so deranged to think the FBI fucked up.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The shoot was justifiable
> _
> Of course it was. The Feds are going to justify their own shooting. Why wouldn't they. But do you think friends of LeVoy are going to think it was anything but a planned execution? Again, this was a serious FBI fuck up._._
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, uh-huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI fucked up shooting an armed idiot reaching for his gun while resisting arrest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What part of that did you not understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the fact part.  He has problems with that.
Click to expand...

He's spouting opinions, not facts. Leave it to his _reach-around_ buddy to _think_ his opinions are facts.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

JULY 26, 2013
*What John Kerry Really Did in Vietnam*
by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR
What John Kerry Really Did in Vietnam


_...On December 2, Kerry went on his first patrol up one of the canals. It was near midnight when the crew caught sight of a sampan. Rules of engagement required no challenge, no effort to see who was on board the sampan. Kerry sent up a flare, signal for his crew to start blazing away with the boat’s two machineguns and M16 rifles. Kerry described the fishermen “running away like gazelles”.

Kerry sustained a very minor wound to his arm, probably caused by debris from his own boat’s salvoes. The scratch earned him his first Purple Heart, a medal awarded for those wounded in combat. Actually there’s no evidence that anyone had fired back, or that Kerry had been in combat,...
He received two more Purple Hearts, both for relatively minor wounds. Indeed Kerry never missed a day of duty for any of the medal-earning wounds....

t last a note of contrition, but not from Kerry. Wasser describes to Brinkley how he saw that he’d killed an old man leading a water buffalo. “I’m haunted by that old man’s face. He was just doing his daily farming, hurting nobody. He got hit in the chest with an M-60 machinegun round. It may have been Christmas Eve, but I was real somber after that… to see the old man blown away sticks with you.” It turned out that Kerry’s boat had shot up one of the few “friendly” villages, with a garrison of South Vietnamese ARV soldiers, two of whom were wounded

Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn’t the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs. Fishy.
Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck. 

Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn’t have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three Purple Hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 (rocket propelled grenade) was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50 (caliber machine guns), Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong. (a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go (away) balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a Frisbee after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50′s. ( Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you–just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring-do in your after-action report). And we didn’t shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.

“Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It couldn’t run and it couldn’t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

“Something is very fishy.”
_


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
Click to expand...

Disrespecting vets sure does get you excited, doesn't it?



> *Purple Heart #1*
> 
> With its motor turned off, Kerry paddled the Boston Whaler out of the inlet into the beginning of the bay. Simultaneously the Vietnamese pulled their sampans up onto the beach and began to unload something; he couldn't tell what, so he decided to illuminate the proceedings with a flare. The entire sky seemed to explode into daylight. The men from the sampans bolted erect, stiff with shock for only an instant before they sprang for cover like a herd of panicked gazelles Kerry had once seen on TV's Wild Kingdom. "We opened fire," he went on. "The light from the flares started to fade, the air was full of explosions. My M-16 jammed, and as I bent down in the boat to grab another gun, *a stinging piece of heat socked into my arm and just seemed to burn like hell*. By this time one of the sailors had started the engine and we ran by the beach, strafing it. Then it was quiet.





> *Purple Heart #2*
> 
> Just as they moved out onto the Cua Lon, at a junction known for unfriendliness in the past, kaboom! PCF-94 had taken a rocket-propelled grenade round off the port side, fired at them from the far left bank. *Kerry felt a piece of hot shrapnel bore into his left leg. With blood running down the deck*, the Swift managed to make an otherwise uneventful exit into the Gulf of Thailand, where they rendezvoused with a Coast Guard cutter. The injury Kerry suffered in that action earned his his second Purple Heart.





> *Purple Heart #3*
> 
> Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, *another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm*. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.



_more..._

Which of those did not involve enemy action?


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
Click to expand...

WTF?? You were rendering your opinion that Kerry's Purple Hearts were unearned -- *yet you weren't involved with his Purple Hearts*. Now you back pedal out of your self-proclaimed position that you're capable of determining anyone's qualification for such medals even though you weren't involved with them personally?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lay off the smack, it's fucking with your brain. The other cop shootings have absolutely nothing to do with this one. Whether the others were justifiable or not has no bearing on the justification of this shooting.
Click to expand...

sure it does sherlock.  It's what you don't understand.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
Click to expand...


They shouldn't. Just like that cop in Chicago was right to assume that dude with a kifife was going to cut everyone up.


----------



## Faun

Camp said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hard to believe you do not know how the Swift boaters were discredited, caught lying, recanted, etc. while Kerry's boatmates and even the Green Beret he rescued came out and publicly supported his actions and the way in which he earned his accommodations. You know that the bottom line is that someone in a medical detachment, like yourself, signed a document confirming Kerry was treated for a combat wound, an injury sustained while in combat, and that is how he got his three Purple Hearts.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately for lunatics like him, they put their politics ahead of their loyalty.


----------



## Faun

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They shouldn't. Just like that cop in Chicago was right to assume that dude with a kifife was going to cut everyone up.
Click to expand...

Your deflection is noted. Good to see you back the FBI in taking down Finicum.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You most certainly did....you never quantified your statement...and now you are backpedaling....Mr. Expert on PHs so you know all about Kerry's being un-earned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> '
> 
> Again, I never made any such statement. Dishonest on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are totally capable of reading what you claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no you aren't.  He never made the claim.
Click to expand...

I know you want my attention.    Poor thing.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lay off the smack, it's fucking with your brain. The other cop shootings have absolutely nothing to do with this one. Whether the others were justifiable or not has no bearing on the justification of this shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it does sherlock.  It's what you don't understand.
Click to expand...

You're fucking deranged. 

When this shooting gets investigated, there will be nothing from those other shootings taken into consideration.


----------



## bodecea

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _The record shows he did earn them. Why would anyone believe the swift boat vets since they were caught lying about his record?
> _
> No, the record shows that he was awarded them; not that he earned them. And what about the real swift boat sailors? Kerry was awarded  his medals(before he begged and pleaded to be released from the combat duty he had requested) but the real swift boat sailors didn't earn the ones they were awarded while actually doing their duty? A why would anybody believe Kerry when he was caught on the record lying under oath to congress (a crime)?
> 
> 
> 
> Of course he earned them. WTF is wrong with you? His Bronze & Silver Stars were accompanied with citations describing his heroic efforts to earn them.
> 
> But thanks again for demonstrating there are also righties who disrespect vets.
Click to expand...

He seems a little vague on how the process really works, doesn't he?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Disrespecting vets sure does get you excited, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Purple Heart #1*
> 
> With its motor turned off, Kerry paddled the Boston Whaler out of the inlet into the beginning of the bay. Simultaneously the Vietnamese pulled their sampans up onto the beach and began to unload something; he couldn't tell what, so he decided to illuminate the proceedings with a flare. The entire sky seemed to explode into daylight. The men from the sampans bolted erect, stiff with shock for only an instant before they sprang for cover like a herd of panicked gazelles Kerry had once seen on TV's Wild Kingdom. "We opened fire," he went on. "The light from the flares started to fade, the air was full of explosions. My M-16 jammed, and as I bent down in the boat to grab another gun, *a stinging piece of heat socked into my arm and just seemed to burn like hell*. By this time one of the sailors had started the engine and we ran by the beach, strafing it. Then it was quiet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Purple Heart #2*
> 
> Just as they moved out onto the Cua Lon, at a junction known for unfriendliness in the past, kaboom! PCF-94 had taken a rocket-propelled grenade round off the port side, fired at them from the far left bank. *Kerry felt a piece of hot shrapnel bore into his left leg. With blood running down the deck*, the Swift managed to make an otherwise uneventful exit into the Gulf of Thailand, where they rendezvoused with a Coast Guard cutter. The injury Kerry suffered in that action earned his his second Purple Heart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Purple Heart #3*
> 
> Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, *another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm*. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _more..._
> 
> Which of those did not involve enemy action?
Click to expand...

*John Kerry military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*

*"First Purple Heart*
Some SBVT members have questioned the propriety of Kerry's first Purple Heart, received for a wound sustained on December 2, 1968. Kerry remained on duty after being wounded, and sought treatment at the following day's sick call. They assert that the injury was too minor to merit a citation because the only treatment Kerry received, after the removal of a piece of shrapnel from his arm, was bacitracin (an antibiotic) and a bandage, and he returned to service immediately. Other division members, including at least one SBVT member, received Purple Hearts under similar circumstances[_citation needed_]. SBVT also claims that the wound was not from enemy fire but was from shrapnel of a grenade he fired himself,[16] "Self-inflicted wounds were awarded if incurred 'in the heat of battle, and not involving gross negligence.' Kerry's critics insist his wound would not have qualified, but former Navy officials who worked in the service's awards branch at the time said such awards were routine."

On the night in question, Kerry was not on a Swift Boat, but on a 15-foot skimmer. Kerry opened fire on suspected guerrillas on the shore. During this encounter, Kerry suffered a shrapnel wound in the left arm above the elbow. Accounts differ over the crew aboard the skimmer, the source of Kerry's injury—Kerry has stated that he does not know where the shrapnel came from[17]—and several other major details."


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## jc456

Faun said:


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> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lay off the smack, it's fucking with your brain. The other cop shootings have absolutely nothing to do with this one. Whether the others were justifiable or not has no bearing on the justification of this shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it does sherlock.  It's what you don't understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're fucking deranged.
> 
> When this shooting gets investigated, there will be nothing from those other shootings taken into consideration.
Click to expand...

yeah go with that.


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## WildBillKelsoe

Faun said:


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> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
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> 
> They shouldn't. Just like that cop in Chicago was right to assume that dude with a kifife was going to cut everyone up.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Your deflection is noted. Good to see you back the FBI in taking down Finicum.
Click to expand...


I'm glad to see you support that Chicago cop shorting an armed, criminal who didn't comply to lawful authority.


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## jc456

bodecea said:


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> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
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> 
> You most certainly did....you never quantified your statement...and now you are backpedaling....Mr. Expert on PHs so you know all about Kerry's being un-earned.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> '
> 
> Again, I never made any such statement. Dishonest on your part.
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> We are totally capable of reading what you claim.
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> no you aren't.  He never made the claim.
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> I know you want my attention.    Poor thing.
Click to expand...

no I want you to post factually,


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## jc456

WildBillKelsoe said:


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> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
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> 
> They shouldn't. Just like that cop in Chicago was right to assume that dude with a kifife was going to cut everyone up.
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> Your deflection is noted. Good to see you back the FBI in taking down Finicum.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm glad to see you support that Chicago cop shorting an armed, criminal who didn't comply to lawful authority.
Click to expand...

knife in hand fully exposed, you can watch as he flips the blade out. daring the cops to shoot him.  One did.


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## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> JULY 26, 2013
> *What John Kerry Really Did in Vietnam*
> by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR
> What John Kerry Really Did in Vietnam
> 
> 
> _...On December 2, Kerry went on his first patrol up one of the canals. It was near midnight when the crew caught sight of a sampan. Rules of engagement required no challenge, no effort to see who was on board the sampan. Kerry sent up a flare, signal for his crew to start blazing away with the boat’s two machineguns and M16 rifles. Kerry described the fishermen “running away like gazelles”.
> 
> Kerry sustained a very minor wound to his arm, probably caused by debris from his own boat’s salvoes. The scratch earned him his first Purple Heart, a medal awarded for those wounded in combat. Actually there’s no evidence that anyone had fired back, or that Kerry had been in combat,...
> He received two more Purple Hearts, both for relatively minor wounds. Indeed Kerry never missed a day of duty for any of the medal-earning wounds....
> 
> t last a note of contrition, but not from Kerry. Wasser describes to Brinkley how he saw that he’d killed an old man leading a water buffalo. “I’m haunted by that old man’s face. He was just doing his daily farming, hurting nobody. He got hit in the chest with an M-60 machinegun round. It may have been Christmas Eve, but I was real somber after that… to see the old man blown away sticks with you.” It turned out that Kerry’s boat had shot up one of the few “friendly” villages, with a garrison of South Vietnamese ARV soldiers, two of whom were wounded
> 
> Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn’t the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs. Fishy.
> Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty. Amazing luck.
> 
> Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn’t have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three Purple Hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.
> 
> The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 (rocket propelled grenade) was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50 (caliber machine guns), Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong. (a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go (away) balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a Frisbee after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50′s. ( Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you–just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring-do in your after-action report). And we didn’t shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
> 
> “Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It couldn’t run and it couldn’t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.
> 
> “Something is very fishy.”_


Jeffrey St. Clair

Jeffrey St. Clair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Faun

Carla_Danger said:


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> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've admitted that the Lavoy shooting was clean. Now you're trying to backpedal and give us caveats and exceptions.
> 
> Nope. When Lavoy ran a blockade, led cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest and reached for his gun......the police were justified in shooting him.
> 
> You've already admitted as much.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I didn't, I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio.  You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game.  which is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You admitted that Lavoy's shooting was justified. Then backpedals, giving us 'its only a threat if' caveats and exceptions.
> 
> There are no 'ifs'. There is what is. Lavoy refused to surrender to police executing a lawful warrant for arrest. He lead them on a high speed chase. He ran a police blockade. He resisted arrest. He reached for his gun. And they shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> You can't backpedal your way out of it now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
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> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
Click to expand...

Exactly.


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## bodecea

jc456 said:


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> You most certainly did....you never quantified your statement...and now you are backpedaling....Mr. Expert on PHs so you know all about Kerry's being un-earned.
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> '
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> Again, I never made any such statement. Dishonest on your part.
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> We are totally capable of reading what you claim.
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> 
> no you aren't.  He never made the claim.
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> 
> I know you want my attention.    Poor thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I want you to post factually,
Click to expand...


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## Faun

jc456 said:


> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.


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## charwin95

Camp said:


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> You're such a dupe.
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> They guy was 15 feet away from his vehicle, which was stuck in a snow bank after he tried to flee from the law. How does one "lose their footing" for 15 feet?
> 
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> 
> And according to authorizes, he had a loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun in the pocket he was reaching for. Even worse for your idiocy, the next guy exiting the vehicle throws something to the ground -- most likely a firearm.
> 
> 
> 
> maybe because it was a snow bank?  Ever walk in one?  hahahahahaahahaha, what a stupid question.
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> Click to expand...
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> Holyfuckingshit!
> 
> It's on video. He didn't stumble. He walked for about 15; away from the road block and towards the trees; and then reached for his gun. Unlike everyone else who walked directly to the road block and never lowered their hands until they were restrained.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> funny stuff sherlock.  I guess you missed the fact that he was running and a dude walked out of the woods from the direction he was running and he stopped and from that point you have no fking idea what he was doing.  But you keep telling yourself you have a crystal ball and cards to tell fortunes and shit.
> 
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> 
> Your brain is tricking your eyes and your fingers kid...... Take a shower and come back it might wake you up.
> 
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> 
> He is not that bright to start with. Kind of like one of those plug in nightlights. A shower won't make much difference or improvement.
Click to expand...


I think it's hopelessness.


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## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


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> I said there is no difference between this shooting and the other cop incidents in Ferguson, Chicago and Ohio. You disagreed with me, so obviously you don't feel any were justified. Or not, or are you still playing the double standards game. which is it?
> 
> Come now double standards you going with it being justified or not?  can't answer cause it traps you.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does somebody give you a prize when you tell them you "won" in "here"? See, I was right about the benghazism. You just confirmed you are afflicted with it. Now do as you were told and go take those pills.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why do you think that's how this works?  hmmmm,  anyone voting for Hillary is telling the Benghazi families it was justified.  Ouch, my what a bunch of pigs those voters would be.
Click to expand...




Useless blabber.


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## Camp

9thIDdoc said:


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> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hard to believe you do not know how the Swift boaters were discredited, caught lying, recanted, etc. while Kerry's boatmates and even the Green Beret he rescued came out and publicly supported his actions and the way in which he earned his accommodations. You know that the bottom line is that someone in a medical detachment, like yourself, signed a document confirming Kerry was treated for a combat wound, an injury sustained while in combat, and that is how he got his three Purple Hearts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Untrue. The swift boaters were never refuted in any important detail. In fact there was offered a million dollars prize offered to anyone who could prove a lie in their book. You are delusional.
Click to expand...

You appear to be highly misinformed, uninformed and/or misguided on this topic. The one delusional here is you sir.

www.swiftvets.eriposte.com/othersbvlies.htm


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## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _Fascinating. You just admitted that you hold his military record as being unearned NOT because you've read his military record but because you don't like what he did and wrote later on. And yes I've read the citations and his FITREPS also....show us in those citations what it is that is "unearned"._
> 
> _I "admitted" no such thing. _His record (military and otherwise) is what it is. I disagree that he did in fact *earn* 3 PHs or his awards for valor The book "Unfit for Command" shows that the people who served with him agree. His testimony before Congress was in reference to Vietnam and atrocities alleged to have been committed there (by me and my friends-which makes it personal) and was refuted by CID. He is a proven liar. That is simply a matter of record. You wanna talk about records include that one.


Some of the folks who contributed to that book were proven to be liars. What a pity you fall for such obvious nonsense.


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## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Camp said:
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> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hard to believe you do not know how the Swift boaters were discredited, caught lying, recanted, etc. while Kerry's boatmates and even the Green Beret he rescued came out and publicly supported his actions and the way in which he earned his accommodations. You know that the bottom line is that someone in a medical detachment, like yourself, signed a document confirming Kerry was treated for a combat wound, an injury sustained while in combat, and that is how he got his three Purple Hearts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Untrue. The swift boaters were never refuted in any important detail. In fact there was offered a million dollars prize offered to anyone who could prove a lie in their book. You are delusional.
Click to expand...

Bullfuckingshit.

That book was written by a rightwingnut birther who would later write a book about how Obama wasn't born in Hawaii. 

They claimed that Kerry's Bronze Start with Combat "V" was unearned because they weren't under fire based on the word of Larry Thurlow.

Too bad for the Swiftboat liars that documents showed his boat was brought in for repairs to damage caused by bullets and other damage from that encounter.

Even worse for the Swiftboat liars, despite Thurlow's insistence that they weren't under fire, it later became known that Thurlow himself also received a Bronze Star with Combat "V" for bravery *under fire*.


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## Camp

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Fascinating. You just admitted that you hold his military record as being unearned NOT because you've read his military record but because you don't like what he did and wrote later on. And yes I've read the citations and his FITREPS also....show us in those citations what it is that is "unearned"._
> 
> _I "admitted" no such thing. _His record (military and otherwise) is what it is. I disagree that he did in fact *earn* 3 PHs or his awards for valor The book "Unfit for Command" shows that the people who served with him agree. His testimony before Congress was in reference to Vietnam and atrocities alleged to have been committed there (by me and my friends-which makes it personal) and was refuted by CID. He is a proven liar. That is simply a matter of record. You wanna talk about records include that one.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the folks who contributed to that book were proven to be liars. What a pity you fall for such obvious nonsense.
Click to expand...

The link I just posted addresses every lie by the Swift boaters told. It debunks every accusation and misrepresentation in a thorough, academic and detailed fashion.


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## Vandalshandle

jc456 said:


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> You most certainly did....you never quantified your statement...and now you are backpedaling....Mr. Expert on PHs so you know all about Kerry's being un-earned.
> 
> 
> 
> '
> 
> Again, I never made any such statement. Dishonest on your part.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are totally capable of reading what you claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no you aren't.  He never made the claim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know you want my attention.    Poor thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I want you to post factually,
Click to expand...


The FBi says he was going for his loaded 9 MM (which is, incidentally what he had said he would do on a previous interview), and you say the FBI is lying. This is why I don't bother to argue facts with you. Instead, I rely strictly on indisputable fact. The man was wanted by the police. The man was found by the police. The man was killed by the police. And all is right with the world.


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## Faun

jc456 said:


> dude, they make shit up, it is the libturd way. they have no integrity at all.


Slobbers the rightie who said the cop who shot Finicum didn't see a gun before shooting him...

G'head -- this is where you prove that or you reveal it's actually you who is making shit up.....


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## Faun

jc456 said:


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> 
> 
> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lay off the smack, it's fucking with your brain. The other cop shootings have absolutely nothing to do with this one. Whether the others were justifiable or not has no bearing on the justification of this shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it does sherlock.  It's what you don't understand.
Click to expand...

Pouts the idiot who admitted he needs help understanding English.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Fascinating. You just admitted that you hold his military record as being unearned NOT because you've read his military record but because you don't like what he did and wrote later on. And yes I've read the citations and his FITREPS also....show us in those citations what it is that is "unearned"._
> 
> _I "admitted" no such thing. _His record (military and otherwise) is what it is. I disagree that he did in fact *earn* 3 PHs or his awards for valor The book "Unfit for Command" shows that the people who served with him agree. His testimony before Congress was in reference to Vietnam and atrocities alleged to have been committed there (by me and my friends-which makes it personal) and was refuted by CID. He is a proven liar. That is simply a matter of record. You wanna talk about records include that one.
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the folks who contributed to that book were proven to be liars. What a pity you fall for such obvious nonsense.
Click to expand...


If true you should have no problem providing some examples here. Don't beg the question.
You think the CID's official investigation was "nonsense"? I'm am eager to see your evidence.


----------



## Faun

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They shouldn't. Just like that cop in Chicago was right to assume that dude with a kifife was going to cut everyone up.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with what happened in Oregon.


----------



## WildBillKelsoe

Faun said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They shouldn't. Just like that cop in Chicago was right to assume that dude with a kifife was going to cut everyone up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with what happened in Oregon.
Click to expand...


Of course it does. It's all about perspective.

This event is exposing Liberal bullshit.  We don't hear y'all crying law enforcement being militarized, now. Do we?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a rock the militia wannabes are gonna break themselves on. As their bullshit narrative is disproven by the video. Lavoy refused to surrender to police, despite them asking him for 7 minutes to get out of his vehicle. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, rushing toward a police blockade. He swerved into a snowbank trying to get around it, lept from his truck, ran 15 feet and reached for his gun.
> 
> And police shot him.
> 
> As they should have.
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lay off the smack, it's fucking with your brain. The other cop shootings have absolutely nothing to do with this one. Whether the others were justifiable or not has no bearing on the justification of this shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it does sherlock.  It's what you don't understand.
Click to expand...


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Cool story, bro. So you covered handing out Purple Hearts to everyone all the years there? Answer me this...my OinC while going thru the C-130 RAG was a Viet Nam era A-6 pilot transitioning to C-130....he had a purple heart for punching out of his A-6 on a maintenance check flight off Yankee Station and breaking his collar bone. Did you play a direct role in awarding him his PH?_
> 
> Nope, and didn't claim otherwise. Read.
> 
> 
> 
> I did, you claimed...and I quote, "That would be because I was there, played a direct role in awarding PHs..."
> 
> Do you deny saying that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Feel free to show where I said I was involved with  *ALL* PHs. I didn't make any such claim. Besides that I'm surprised he got a PH unless enemy action was somehow involved. That's supposed to be a requirement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Disrespecting vets sure does get you excited, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Purple Heart #1*
> 
> With its motor turned off, Kerry paddled the Boston Whaler out of the inlet into the beginning of the bay. Simultaneously the Vietnamese pulled their sampans up onto the beach and began to unload something; he couldn't tell what, so he decided to illuminate the proceedings with a flare. The entire sky seemed to explode into daylight. The men from the sampans bolted erect, stiff with shock for only an instant before they sprang for cover like a herd of panicked gazelles Kerry had once seen on TV's Wild Kingdom. "We opened fire," he went on. "The light from the flares started to fade, the air was full of explosions. My M-16 jammed, and as I bent down in the boat to grab another gun, *a stinging piece of heat socked into my arm and just seemed to burn like hell*. By this time one of the sailors had started the engine and we ran by the beach, strafing it. Then it was quiet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Purple Heart #2*
> 
> Just as they moved out onto the Cua Lon, at a junction known for unfriendliness in the past, kaboom! PCF-94 had taken a rocket-propelled grenade round off the port side, fired at them from the far left bank. *Kerry felt a piece of hot shrapnel bore into his left leg. With blood running down the deck*, the Swift managed to make an otherwise uneventful exit into the Gulf of Thailand, where they rendezvoused with a Coast Guard cutter. The injury Kerry suffered in that action earned his his second Purple Heart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Purple Heart #3*
> 
> Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, *another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm*. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _more..._
> 
> Which of those did not involve enemy action?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *John Kerry military service controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*
> 
> *"First Purple Heart*
> Some SBVT members have questioned the propriety of Kerry's first Purple Heart, received for a wound sustained on December 2, 1968. Kerry remained on duty after being wounded, and sought treatment at the following day's sick call. They assert that the injury was too minor to merit a citation because the only treatment Kerry received, after the removal of a piece of shrapnel from his arm, was bacitracin (an antibiotic) and a bandage, and he returned to service immediately. Other division members, including at least one SBVT member, received Purple Hearts under similar circumstances[_citation needed_]. SBVT also claims that the wound was not from enemy fire but was from shrapnel of a grenade he fired himself,[16] "Self-inflicted wounds were awarded if incurred 'in the heat of battle, and not involving gross negligence.' Kerry's critics insist his wound would not have qualified, but former Navy officials who worked in the service's awards branch at the time said such awards were routine."
> 
> On the night in question, Kerry was not on a Swift Boat, but on a 15-foot skimmer. Kerry opened fire on suspected guerrillas on the shore. During this encounter, Kerry suffered a shrapnel wound in the left arm above the elbow. Accounts differ over the crew aboard the skimmer, the source of Kerry's injury—Kerry has stated that he does not know where the shrapnel came from[17]—and several other major details."
Click to expand...

_Some SBVT members have questioned...._


----------



## 9thIDdoc

WinterSoldier.com - Army CID Investigations of VVAW War Crimes Allegations

In April 1971, Sen. Mark Hatfield placed transcripts from the Vietnam Veterans Against the War's "Winter Soldier Investigation" (WSI) war crimes conference into the Congressional Record. The House Committee on Armed Services responded by directing the Department of Defense to conduct a prompt review of the VVAW's allegations.

The Army's Criminal Investigation Division (CID) opened a case for each witness who claimed to have knowledge of criminal actions by the Army. These cases are described below, with links to the actual Army summary reports.

Note: Personal information and the names of non-VVAW witnesses have been redacted from the summary reports.



----------


The following are Army WSI witnesses investigated by the CID:
Note: Cases 1, 11, 19, 32 and 40 cover allegations made outside WSI by witnesses who also made WSI statements.



1. Beitzel, John, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 4/21, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to January 1970).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate firing upon unarmed Vietnamese, 2) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners/detainees, 3) Mutilation of dead bodies.
Investigation summary: Complainants Beitzel and Joseph Brenman refused to provide specific information to support their allegations, which were made in a venue other than WSI, but are basically the same. Joe Bangert (USMC) and Jeffrey Dubrow (USN) accompanied Beitzel and Brenman at the subject venue.

Result: Investigation terminated; insufficient evidence.

John Beitzel / Joseph Brenman CID Investigation Report



2. Bernath, Fred, 26, 1st Lt., 101st MP Co., 101st Airborne Division (December 1968 to October 1969).


Allegation: 1) Electrical torture of prisoners/detainees, 2) Gassing of civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement supporting his WSI claims, but was unable to identify any of the individuals involved or the date of the incident. He did name a possible witness who subsequently submitted a sworn statement denying any knowledge of the events alleged by Bernath.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Fred Bernath CID Investigation Report



3. Bunge, Sam, 1st Lt., "B" Co., 3/187, 101st Airborne Division (July 1968 to June 1969).


Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of Vietnamese male, 2) Desecration of graves, 3) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant repeated WSI claims but refused to sign a written statement. He provided names of possible witnesses but did not name any of those allegedly involved, including his former commanding officer. Interviews with former members of Bunge's unit and his former commanding officers revealed no evidence that supported the allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigative efforts completed; unfounded.

Sam Bunge CID Investigation Report



4. Butts, Dennis, 24, SP/4 (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12, 25th Infantry Division and "E" Co., 4/39, 9th Infantry Division (September 1966 to September 1967).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate killing and wounding of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to cooperate without immunity on advice of VVAW counsel.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Dennis Butts CID Investigation Report



5. Byrne, Kevin, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 42nd Scout Dog, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (November 1968 to November 1969).


Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of an NVA officer, 2) Failure to render medical treatment, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer questions or provide further information for fear of "causing trouble for the peons instead of the generals."

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Kevin Byrne CID Investigation Report



6. Caldwell, Dennis, 24, CWO-2, "A" Trp., 3/17, Air Cav., 1st Aviation Brigade (October 1968 to October 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Indiscriminate destruction of villages, 4) Gassing (tear gas) of civilians and livestock, 5) Aggravated assault on a prisoner.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions or provide further information.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Dennis Caldwell CID Investigation Report



7. Chiles, David, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4, 25th Infantry Division (January 1968 to December 1968).


Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy corpse, 2) Indiscriminate killing of two Vietnamese children and an elderly Vietnamese man.
Investigation summary: Counsel present at interview. Complainant declined to provide any substantive information, saying he would testify only before a Congressional Committee.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

David Chiles CID Investigation Report



8. Craig, Douglas, 22, SP/4, "D" Co., 2nd Bn., 8th Brigade, 1st Air Cav. Division (December 1968 to August 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant stated that he had no direct information that civilians were killed and no direct knowledge of the alleged event. He further stated that he had misgivings about testifying at Detroit, as he could not substantiate the allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Douglas Craig CID Investigation Report



9. Craig, Larry, 29, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoner, 2) Desecration of a grave.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI testimony and was unable to provide specific information or identify any U.S or Vietnamese personnel.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Larry Craig CID Investigation Report



10. Donner, Donald, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 20th Brigade, 86th Combat Engineers (August 1967 to July 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese male, 2) Wounding of a 14-year-old Vietnamese girl, 3) Dereliction in the performance of duty, 4) Indiscriminate killing of livestock, 5) Failure to bury enemy dead.
Investigation summary: Complainant characterized the alleged incidents as accidental, misrepresented by him at WSI, or known to him only by hearsay.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Donald Donner CID Investigation Report



11. Drolshagen, Jon, 26, 1st Lt., 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).


Allegation: 1) Murder and torture of unknown Vietnamese nationals.
Investigation summary: CID statement refers to allegations made in different venue, six months prior to WSI, by Drolshagen, Edward Barbour (former SP4, 101st Airborne Division) and Frederick Morton (former E5, 11th Armed Cavalry Regiment). Subjects refused to make written statements or to answer questions concerning their allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; case closed.

Note: Drolshagen's statement at WSI was considerably less specific than his earlier allegation that a major had committed torture and murder. At WSI, Drolshagen spoke vaguely of a major's participation in unspecified activities.

Edward Barbour / Jon Drolshagen / Frederick Morton CID Investigation Report



12. Duffy, James, 23, SP/5 (E-5), 228 Aviation Bn., 1st Air Cav. Division (February 1967 to April 1968).


Allegation: 1) Negligent homicide of unidentified Vietnamese child, 2) Maltreatment of prisoners, 3) Assault, 4) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Investigators were unable to contact complainant.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

James Duffy CID Investigation Report



13. Dzagulones, Don, 23, SP/5, 635th Military Intelligence Detachment, attached to 11th Infantry Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to December 1969).


Allegation: 1) Torture and assault of prisoners / VC suspects.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions. Investigators were unable to identify the unidentified major referred to in the allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Don Dzagulones CID Investigation Report



14. Erard, Michael, 29, SP/5 (E-5), 3/503, 173rd Airborne Brigade (April 1969 to March 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 2) Failure to take prisoners.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statement or provide any information.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Michael Erard CID Investigation Report



15. Farrell, Michael, 24, SP/4 (E-4), "A" Co., 2/60, 9th Infantry Division (January 1967 to January 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese child, 2) Maltreatment of a prisoner, 3) Destruction of crops and livestock.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statements or provide any information on advice of attorney.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Michael Farrell CID Investigation Report



16. Galbally, Joe, 23, SP/4 (E-4), 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (October 1967 to April 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Rape, 3) Assault.
Investigation summary: Efforts to locate complainant were unsuccessful.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Joe Galbally CID Investigation Report



17. Hagelin, Timon, 21, SP/4 (E-4), Graves Registration Platoon, 243 Field Serv. Co., 1st Logistics Command (August 1968 to August 1969).


Allegation: 1) Assault of unidentified Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Timon Hagelin CID Investigation Report



18. Hartner, John, 26, Sgt. (E-5), H & HD 3rd Brigade, H & HD 2nd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division (November 1969 to August 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese baby, 2) Wounding of three Vietnamese women, 3) Suppression of the above information.
Investigation summary: In a sworn statement, complainant refused to provide any information.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

John Hartner CID Investigation Report



19. Henry, James, 23, Sgt., 1st Bn., 3/35th, 4th Infantry Division (August 1967 to August 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder, 2) Rape, 3) Maltreatment of unidentified Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement. An extensive investigation failed to reveal sufficient evidence to prove or disprove the allegations. Subsequent supplementary investigative efforts revealed that a group of unarmed civilians may in fact have been killed by members of Company B, 1/35th Infantry on February 8, 1968. That investigation was ongoing at the time of this report.

Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigation in progress.

Note: The CID statement refers to allegations made in several different venues a year prior to WSI, and repeated there. See also Civilian Killings Went Unpunished, Los Angeles Times, August 6, 2006. This is the only known WSI allegation for which there is substantiation.

James Henry CID Investigation Report



20. Henry, John, 26, SP/4, 2/60, 1/11 Artillery, 9th Infantry Division (March 1968 to February 1969).


Allegation: 1) Maltreatment of prisoners and Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of livestock and private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

John Henry CID Investigation Report



21. Hunter, Michael, 24, Sgt (E-5), "B" Co., 5/7 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Division (February 1968 to February 1969); "H" Co., 75th Rangers, attached to 1st Air Cav. Div.; "I" Co., 75th Rangers, attached to 1st Inf. Division (September 1969 to March 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Mutilation of corpses, 3) Desecration of graves and destruction of private property, 4) Rape, 5) Refusing to render medical aid, 6) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians (tear gas).
Investigation summary: Complainant admitted his own offenses orally but would not make a written statement or provide times, dates or names. Numerous former members of Hunter's unit denied his allegations. One witness said that Hunter had killed a Vietnamese man without orders while walking point on a patrol.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Michael Hunter CID Investigation Report



22. Keyes, Gary, 22, SP/4, "E" Troop, 1st Cav. Reg., 11th Brigade, Americal Division (April 1969 to March 1970).


Allegation: 1) Gassing of villages, 2) Aggravated assault, 3 Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Gary Keyes CID Investigation Report



23. Keys, Eugene, 25, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4 25th Infantry Division (February 1966 to February 1967).


Allegation: 1) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese villages, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant said he would only make a statement to a joint session of Congress.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Eugene Keys CID Investigation Report



24. Kogut, Russell, 22, WO-1, 155 Assault Helicopter Co. (May 1968 to March 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Aggravated assault, 3) Looting and destruction of private property, 4) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese villages.
Investigation summary: Complainant said a VVAW staffer told him that VVAW's lawyers advised him not to make any statement.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Russell Kogut CID Investigation Report



25. Lenix, Mark, 24, 1st Lt., 1/11th Arty. and 2/39 Infantry, 9th Infantry Division (1968 to 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners and unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Looting and destruction of private property, 4) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Mark Lenix CID Investigation Report



26. Lloyd, Murphy, 27, Sgt. (E-5), "D" Co., 4th Bn., 173 Airborne Brigade (February 1967 to February 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, 2) Torture and maiming of prisoners.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions on advice of lawyer.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Murphy Lloyd CID Investigation Report



27. Lytle, John, 24, SP/4 (E-4), "E" Co., 6/15 Arty., 1st Infantry Division (August 1967 to March 1969).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegation that villages were targeted indiscriminately, saying that the villages were fired on because it was suspected that VC occupied them and because incoming fire had been received. Lytle was unable to identify any personnel involved or name specific incidents.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

John Lytle CID Investigation Report



28. MacKay, James, 20, Sgt. (E-5), HHQ 3rd Brigade, 9th Inf. Div. (October 1968 to August 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Maltreatment of enemy dead, 3) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

James MacKay CID Investigation Report



29. Mallory, John, 24, Captain, 1st Sq., 11th Arm. Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Division (May 1969 to May 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Desecration of enemy graves, 3) Aggravated assault, 4) Larceny and destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any specific information or identify any of the persons allegedly involved. He said he and the VVAW were only interested in initiating a Congressional investigation into U.S. policy in Vietnam.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

John Mallory CID Investigation Report



30. McConnachie, Robert, 22, Sgt. (E-5), 2/28th, 1st Infantry (October 1967 to October 1968).


Allegation: 1) Involuntary manslaughter of unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, saying that no Vietnamese children were actually killed by troops throwing C-ration cans at them. He also said he now believed that the alleged killing of civilians in a hospital by artillery fire was accidental.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

Robert McConnachie CID Investigation Report



31. Misiaszek, Michael, 22, SP/4 (E-4), 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, FSSE (December 1968 to January 1970).


Allegation: 1) Desecration of graves, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant made oral and written statements, but was unable to substantiate his WSI allegations. Investigation disproved one of his allegations, that Army engineers plowed under Vietnamese graves while constructing a stadium.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Michael Misiaszek CID Investigation Report



32. Noetzel, Steve, 31, SP/4, 5th Special Forces Group Augmentation (May 1963 to May 1964).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoners / detainees, 2) Inhumane treatment of prisoners.
Investigation summary: The CID statement refers to allegations made in another venue nine months prior to WSI, but the main allegation is basically the same. Complainant Noetzel repeated his allegations orally, but returned a written summary unsigned. An extensive investigation failed to substantiate Noetzel's allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; unfounded / insufficient evidence.

Gordon Livingston / Robert Johnson / Steve Noetzel CID Investigation Report



33. Ostrenga, Patrick, "D" Co., 25th Infantry Division (February to December - year unknown).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Refusing to render medical treatment to wounded prisoners and Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Patrick Ostrenga CID Investigation Report



34. Palosaari, Ronald, 23, SP/4, 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (1967 to 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Mutilation of corpse.
Investigation summary: Complainant was unable to provide specific dates, locations or names of individuals allegedly involved, and backtracked on his WSI allegation that he had witnessed the mutilation of enemy dead.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Ronald Palosaari CID Investigation Report



35. Perry, Bill, 23, Pfc. (E-3), "A" Co., 1/506, 101st Airborne Division (November 1966 to August 1968).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 2) Mutilation of corpses.
Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Bill Perry CID Investigation Report



36. Podlaski, Ron, 24, Sgt. (E-5), 5th Special Forces Group (April 1968 to April 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, Vietnamese civilians and a Laotian national, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant declined to answer questions pending advice from his attorney, then moved and could not be located.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Ron Podlaski CID Investigation Report



37. Pugsley, Don, 23, SP/4, 5th Special Forces (October 1969 to December 1969).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate destruction of livestock.
Investigation summary: Complainant said in a sworn statement that the strafing of water buffalo he alleged at WSI did not actually occur.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

Don Pugsley CID Investigation Report



38. Rice, William, 21, SP/4, 3/47th and HQ, 3rd Brigade, 9th Infantry Division (January 1969 to January 1970).


Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, 2) Torture of prisoners, 3) Maltreatment of prisoners.
Investigation summary: Complainant declined to make any statements or provide any information concerning his allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

William Rice CID Investigation Report



39. Rippberger, Carl, 23, (E-4), "K" Troop, 3rd Squad, 11th Armored Cav. Reg., attached to 9th Infantry Division (May 1967 to May 1968).


Allegation: 1) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners, 2) Failure to bury enemy dead, 3) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations on advice from his attorney.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Carl Rippberger CID Investigation Report



40. Rottmann, Larry, 25, 1st Lt., Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (June 1967 to March 1968).


Allegation: 1) Presence of nerve agents in Vietnam, 2) Suppression of war crime information from news media, 3) Wearing of ears and scalps by US forces, 4) Murder of enemy personnel attempting to surrender, 5) Destruction of Vietnamese villages by bombing and napalm, 6) Torture of VC/NVA.
Investigation summary: The CID statement refers to allegations made at two different venues, nine months and two months prior to WSI. Rottman's WSI testimony was about military press censorship and he did not allege any war crimes there. Attempts to contact the complainant were unsuccessful. The case was closed due to the lack of cooperation and the lack of any definitive leads.

Result: Investigation completed; case closed.

Larry Rottmann / Michael Uhl CID Investigation Report

Note: The CID also investigated an allegation by Rottmann that General Westmoreland had ordered the destruction of a village in the Mekong Delta. This allegation was determined to be unfounded.

Larry Rottmann CID Investigation Report



41. Ruth, Kenneth, 26, (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Div. (February 1966 to February 1967).


Allegation: 1) Torture of VC suspects, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, resulting in the injury of 43 Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant's WSI allegations were found to be unsubstantiated. He also backtracked on an additional claim made in a LIFE Magazine article, stating to investigators that he had no personal knowledge of casualties as a result of the test firing of weapons.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

Kenneth Ruth CID Investigation Report



42. Schorr, Sam, SP/4 (E-4), 86th Combat Engineers (September 1966 to September 1967).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Desecration of graves, 3 Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions about his allegations. He further stated that if the President of the United States was investigated for war crimes, he would release information relative to his testimony.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Sam Schorr CID Investigation Report



43. Shepard, Franklin, 23, S. Sgt. (E-6), 5/60, 9th Infantry Division (March 1968 to August 1969).


Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy dead and unidentified Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant provided a written, sworn statement in support of his allegation. Multiple witnesses interviewed contradicted Shepard's claims, and further investigation also failed to support his statements.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

Franklin Shepard CID Investigation Report



44. Smith, George, (E-6), 5th Special Forces; taken prisoner by the NLF in 1963 and released in November 1965.


Allegation: 1) Maltreatment of prisoners.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, stating that Vietnamese troops rather than American troops had committed illegal acts.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

George Smith CID Investigation Report



45. Stark, David, 25, SP/5 (E-5), 524 Military Intelligence Detachment (October 1967 to October 1968).


Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power resulting in the deaths of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Maltreatment of prisoners.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, saying that he had not witnessed the maltreatment of prisoners, and that he saw no bodies and could not identify the military units involved in the alleged events.

Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.

David Stark CID Investigation Report



46. Stephens, Charles, 24, Pfc. (E-3), 1/327, 101st Airborne Division (December 1965 to February 1967).


Allegation: 1) Murder of Vietnamese civilians and prisoners, 2) Mutilation of enemy dead, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Refusing to render medical aid.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any statement on advice of counsel concerning both WSI and LIFE Magazine allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Charles Stephens CID Investigation Report



47. Weber, Jim, 24, Sgt. (E-5), "A" Co., 1/6 and 1/46, 198 LIB, Americal Division (November 1967 to November 1968).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese and prisoners, 2) Assault, 3) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any statement, saying the only subject he would identify was President Johnson.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Jim Weber CID Investigation Report



48. Wiktorski, Robert, 22, SP/4 (E-4), "C" Co., 2/12 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Div.(May 1968 to May 1969).


Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified North Vietnamese Army soldier, 2) Aggravated assault.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statement or provide any information.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Robert Wiktorski CID Investigation Report



----------


The following are Army WSI witnesses whose available summary reports show inconclusive preliminary investigations:1. Bezanson, William, 24, Pfc., 4/3, 11th Brigade, Americal Division and 123rd Aviation Bn. (1967 to 1968).Allegation: 1) Torture of enemy prisoners, 2) Indiscriminate killing of 15 unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 3) Destruction of private property.
Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.

2. Crouse, Allan, 22 (E-4), 3rd Engineers Brigade, 82nd Airborne Division (January 1969 to December 1969).Allegation: 1) Destruction of private property.
Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.

3. Hopkins, Barry, 23, 3/39th, 9th Infantry Division (January 1969 to January 1970).Allegation: 1) Murder, 2) Maltreatment of female prisoners, 3) Failure to render medical treatment to prisoner.
Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.

----------


The following are Army WSI witnesses for whom no summary reports have been found:1. Bjornson, Dr. Jon, 37, Major, Psychiatrist, Flight Surgeon, Deputy Surgeon, USASC, 8th Field Hospital, Nha Trang (May 1964 to April 1965).


Summary of WSI allegations: Asserted that war crimes are routinely committed by the U.S. military. Theorized about causes of criminal violence in troops, promotes widespread drug abuse exaggerations, and blamed the American system for evil nature of troops. Quoted Marx. No claim to have personal knowledge of war crimes.2. Braum, David, 25, SP/5, 21 Trans. Co., 119 Avn. Co. Airmobile, 52 Combat Avn. Bn., 52 Prov. Plt., Delta Bn. (1963-1964).Summary of WSI allegations: Moderator of "Weapons Panel" at WSI. Made the absurd claim that "...in civilian life I was, for five years, purchasing all materials and supplies for the United States Air Force, the U.S. Navy, the Atomic Energy Commission, the Army and the CIA...." Characterized various weapons systems as de facto illegal and/or immoral. Provided slides for presentation that depicted equipment, not events.3. Carey, Orville, 1st Logistics Command. Postal clerk in Pleiku, Vietnam. Appeared on "Third World Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: No allegations of war crimes. Alleged racism in Army, stating, "We [in U.S. Army, Germany] had Klansmen... and this was more or less accepted as policy. Nobody worried about cross burnings or stuff... There was no chance for a promotion. You were handed out all the vile details... The only way I could get out of Germany was to volunteer to go to Vietnam."4. Crandell, William, 26, 1LT, 199th LIB, Americal Division. Made "Opening Statement" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalizations about genocide and pervasive war crimes as a result of policy.


5. Crumb, Jan, 28, SP/4, 18th Aviation Co. (December 1961 to October 1963). Moderator, along with John Kerry, of "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: No discernible record of remarks. The caption "Moderator" is used throughout in the transcript, not distinguishing between the two moderators.6. Duncan, Don, M/Sgt., 5th Special Forces (1964 to 1965). Made "Closing Statement" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalizations. Blamed entire country and media for atrocities. "It has been done systematically, deliberately, and continuously...." Argued that American schools and American society need to be changed. "...I think the fact that so much can be done to so many men by so few people is the greatest testament to the fact that our colleges, our high schools, our everyday life is nothing but pre-basic training."7. Egendorf, Arthur, 525 Military Intelligence Group, Saigon. Appeared on "What Are We Doing To Ourselves Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Said that he went to Harvard and majored in economics. "...the institutions of this society are very much a part of the phenomenon that we're discussing..." Claimed that corporations and the media were providing cover identities for covert operatives. No specific war crimes allegations.8. Galicia, Dr. David, Major, Psychiatrist, 3rd Field Hospital, Saigon (July 1969 to June 1970). Appeared on "Medical Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testified about the poor condition, as he saw it, of medical and psychiatric services. Spoke of drug abuse among troops, lack of American medical care for Vietnamese, and criticized the effects of some incendiary weapons. No war crimes allegations.9. Grosso, Dr. Joseph, 31, Captain, General Medical Officer, 173rd Airborne Brigade, Field Hospital, Nha Trang (April 1967 to December 1967). Appeared on "Medical Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Claimed that the Army's Medical Civil Action Program (MedCap) "...was an attempt to use the practice of medicine as a propaganda device" Alleged that "...it was more or less command policy that prostitution be part of the military operation." No war crimes allegations.10. Hale, Nathan, 23, SP/5, 199th LIB, Americal Division (December 1967 to December 1968). Appeared on "3rd Marine Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Claimed that "...in January of '68 I was assigned to the 1st Cav., Americal Division." -- The 1st Cav. and the Americal are two different divisions. Said that he took part in a Marine mission called Daring Endeavors, south of Da Nang, during October 1968. Displayed slides purportedly showing Vietnamese National Field Police interrogating a prisoner using torture. Hale claimed he also used torture to interrogate enemy prisoners, and alleged that an enemy combatant died as result of the use of CS (tear) gas in a tunnel.
Note: A memo dated 21 April 1971 from Col. Tufts (head of CID) to CoS, U.S. Army, stated that Hale's complaint was under investigation. No other CID documents available to date refer to his allegations.

11. Kruch, Robert, 25, Pfc. (E-3), Co. A, 3/21, 196 LIB, Americal Division. Appeared on "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Talks about poor leadership and maltreatment of U.S. troops by commanders. Says his company refused "to go back out" at one point. No war crimes allegations.12. Light, William, 22 (E-3), "E" Co., 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (May 1968 to June 1969). Appeared at "Third World Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalized remarks about racism. No war crimes allegations. Received a General Discharge.13. McSheffrey, Ron, 6/31 9th Infantry Division (1969-1970). Appeared on "What Are We Doing To Ourselves Panel" at WSI, erroneously listed as "Dr." McSheffrey.Summary of WSI allegations: Tells of his drug addiction in Vietnam. No war crimes allegations. Received a "212 discharge" - namely, "honorable wartime service subsequent to desertion."14. Moore, Scott, 26, 1st Lt., 2/39th, 9th Infantry Division (1968 to 1969). Appeared on the "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalized complaints. No war crimes allegations."15. Murphy, Ed, 23, Sgt. (E-5), 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (October 1967 to September 1968). Appeared on "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony consists of one paragraph of generalized remarks affirming the testimony of others.
Note: A memo dated 21 April 1971 from Col. Tufts (head of CID) to CoS, U.S. Army, stated that Murphy's complaint was under investigation. No other CID documents available to date refer to his allegations.

16. Newton, Ron, 24, Pfc. (E-3), 3rd Brigade, HHQ Co., 704 Maintenance Bn., 4th Infantry Division (July 1966 to June 1967). Appeared on "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complains about Army training, poor medical care and alleged racism towards Vietnamese. No war crimes allegations."17. Novick, Wayne, 22, SP/4, 1st En., 26th Inf., 1st Inf. Division (February 1969 to February 1970). Moderator of the "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Asked questions of witnesses. No independent war crimes allegations.18. Pitkin, Steve, 20, SP/4, "C" Co., 2/239, 9th Infantry Division (May 1969 to July 1969). Appeared on "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Said that he would "...testify about the beating of civilians and enemy personnel, destruction of villages, indiscriminate use of artillery, the general racism and the attitude of the American GI toward the Vietnamese." This was followed by generalized complaining about the military. No specific war crimes allegations.
Note: Pitkin publicly recanted his participation in WSI in 2004, saying in a signed affidavit that he had been pressured to present false testimony about war crimes in Vietnam by other VVAW members, including John Kerry.

19. Primm, Alex, 26, SP/4 (E-4), Public Information Office, 1st Logistics Command, Headquarters (September 1968 to June 1969). Appeared on "25th Infantry Division and Public Information Office Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complained about military and other news reporting. No war crimes allegations.20. Romo, Barry, 23, 1st Lt., "A" Co., 2/1, 196 LIB, "C" Co., 3/4, 11th Inf. Brigade, Americal Division (June 1967 to November 1968). Moderator of the "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Mostly generalizations about racism toward Latinos. He is Chicano and became a commissioned officer at age 19. No war crimes allegations.21. Shibla, Vernon, 27, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967). Appeared on "25th Infantry Division and Public Information Office Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complained about Army Public Information policies of censorship. No war crimes allegations.22. Umenhofer, James, SP/4 (E-4), 2/501, 101st Airborne Division (November 1969 to October 1970). Appeared on the "82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and 173rd Airborne Brigade Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Mostly generalizations. One allegation of racially motivated fragging.23. Williams, Donald P. Did not serve in Vietnam. Claimed 8 years active duty service, units not revealed. Said he deserted to Sweden after his unit was deployed to Saigon in March 1968. Appeared on "Third World Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complained of racism. Falsely claimed that "...statistics say that blacks constitute only ten percent of the total population in the United States, yet they represent at least forty percent of the fighting forces in Vietnam." Proposed smoking grass as an antidote to racism.24. Wingrodski, Curtis, 22, SP/4, 59th Scout Dog, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (March 1969 to October 1969). Appeared on the "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony is brief, lacking any content. No war crimes allegations.25. Wright, Doug, SP/4, 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division. Appeared on "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony is brief, lacking any content. "And these things go on..." "Here I am, you know." No war crimes allegations.
Thanks to John Boyle for making these reports available and providing summary information.

Last Updated Tuesday, March 04 2008 @ 03:37 PM EST; 69,495 Hits


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## 9thIDdoc

Also of interest-

Articles: Investigate the Winter Soldier Investigation


----------



## Faun

WildBillKelsoe said:


> Faun said:
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> WildBillKelsoe said:
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> Faun said:
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> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They shouldn't. Just like that cop in Chicago was right to assume that dude with a kifife was going to cut everyone up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with what happened in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it does. It's all about perspective.
> 
> This event is exposing Liberal bullshit.  We don't hear y'all crying law enforcement being militarized, now. Do we?
Click to expand...

More bullshit. There's only one question that needs to be answered -- was the FBI justified in shooting Finicum. Nothing in Chicago answers that

The FBI pulled over a car full of self-proclaimed militia after they trespassed on public property for 4 weeks. The FBI was informed they were armed, which they were. After trying to escape the FBI, one of them gets out, runs for the forest with his hands up -- and then reaches for his gun.

Justified shooting.

Nothing in Chicago affects that or has any influence on it.


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## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
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> 9thIDdoc said:
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> _Fascinating. You just admitted that you hold his military record as being unearned NOT because you've read his military record but because you don't like what he did and wrote later on. And yes I've read the citations and his FITREPS also....show us in those citations what it is that is "unearned"._
> 
> _I "admitted" no such thing. _His record (military and otherwise) is what it is. I disagree that he did in fact *earn* 3 PHs or his awards for valor The book "Unfit for Command" shows that the people who served with him agree. His testimony before Congress was in reference to Vietnam and atrocities alleged to have been committed there (by me and my friends-which makes it personal) and was refuted by CID. He is a proven liar. That is simply a matter of record. You wanna talk about records include that one.
> 
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> 
> Some of the folks who contributed to that book were proven to be liars. What a pity you fall for such obvious nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> If true you should have no problem providing some examples here. Don't beg the question.
> You think the CID's official investigation was "nonsense"? I'm am eager to see your evidence.
Click to expand...

First things first.

You said  Kerry's Purple Hearts were unearned because [at least some of] his injuries did not involve enemy action.

I posted the events leading up to each of those medals. I'm still waiting for you to point out which ones were not inflicted during enemy action.



> *Purple Heart #1*
> 
> With its motor turned off, Kerry paddled the Boston Whaler out of the inlet into the beginning of the bay. Simultaneously the Vietnamese pulled their sampans up onto the beach and began to unload something; he couldn't tell what, so he decided to illuminate the proceedings with a flare. The entire sky seemed to explode into daylight. The men from the sampans bolted erect, stiff with shock for only an instant before they sprang for cover like a herd of panicked gazelles Kerry had once seen on TV's Wild Kingdom. "We opened fire," he went on. "The light from the flares started to fade, the air was full of explosions. My M-16 jammed, and as I bent down in the boat to grab another gun, *a stinging piece of heat socked into my arm and just seemed to burn like hell*. By this time one of the sailors had started the engine and we ran by the beach, strafing it. Then it was quiet.





> *Purple Heart #2*
> 
> Just as they moved out onto the Cua Lon, at a junction known for unfriendliness in the past, kaboom! PCF-94 had taken a rocket-propelled grenade round off the port side, fired at them from the far left bank. *Kerry felt a piece of hot shrapnel bore into his left leg. With blood running down the deck*, the Swift managed to make an otherwise uneventful exit into the Gulf of Thailand, where they rendezvoused with a Coast Guard cutter. The injury Kerry suffered in that action earned his his second Purple Heart.





> *Purple Heart #3*
> 
> Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, *another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm*. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.


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## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> WinterSoldier.com - Army CID Investigations of VVAW War Crimes Allegations
> 
> In April 1971, Sen. Mark Hatfield placed transcripts from the Vietnam Veterans Against the War's "Winter Soldier Investigation" (WSI) war crimes conference into the Congressional Record. The House Committee on Armed Services responded by directing the Department of Defense to conduct a prompt review of the VVAW's allegations.
> 
> The Army's Criminal Investigation Division (CID) opened a case for each witness who claimed to have knowledge of criminal actions by the Army. These cases are described below, with links to the actual Army summary reports.
> 
> Note: Personal information and the names of non-VVAW witnesses have been redacted from the summary reports.
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> The following are Army WSI witnesses investigated by the CID:
> Note: Cases 1, 11, 19, 32 and 40 cover allegations made outside WSI by witnesses who also made WSI statements.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Beitzel, John, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 4/21, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to January 1970).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate firing upon unarmed Vietnamese, 2) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners/detainees, 3) Mutilation of dead bodies.
> Investigation summary: Complainants Beitzel and Joseph Brenman refused to provide specific information to support their allegations, which were made in a venue other than WSI, but are basically the same. Joe Bangert (USMC) and Jeffrey Dubrow (USN) accompanied Beitzel and Brenman at the subject venue.
> 
> Result: Investigation terminated; insufficient evidence.
> 
> John Beitzel / Joseph Brenman CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Bernath, Fred, 26, 1st Lt., 101st MP Co., 101st Airborne Division (December 1968 to October 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Electrical torture of prisoners/detainees, 2) Gassing of civilians.
> Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement supporting his WSI claims, but was unable to identify any of the individuals involved or the date of the incident. He did name a possible witness who subsequently submitted a sworn statement denying any knowledge of the events alleged by Bernath.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Fred Bernath CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Bunge, Sam, 1st Lt., "B" Co., 3/187, 101st Airborne Division (July 1968 to June 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of Vietnamese male, 2) Desecration of graves, 3) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians.
> Investigation summary: Complainant repeated WSI claims but refused to sign a written statement. He provided names of possible witnesses but did not name any of those allegedly involved, including his former commanding officer. Interviews with former members of Bunge's unit and his former commanding officers revealed no evidence that supported the allegations.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigative efforts completed; unfounded.
> 
> Sam Bunge CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Butts, Dennis, 24, SP/4 (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12, 25th Infantry Division and "E" Co., 4/39, 9th Infantry Division (September 1966 to September 1967).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate killing and wounding of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to cooperate without immunity on advice of VVAW counsel.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Dennis Butts CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Byrne, Kevin, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 42nd Scout Dog, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (November 1968 to November 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of an NVA officer, 2) Failure to render medical treatment, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer questions or provide further information for fear of "causing trouble for the peons instead of the generals."
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Kevin Byrne CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Caldwell, Dennis, 24, CWO-2, "A" Trp., 3/17, Air Cav., 1st Aviation Brigade (October 1968 to October 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Indiscriminate destruction of villages, 4) Gassing (tear gas) of civilians and livestock, 5) Aggravated assault on a prisoner.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions or provide further information.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Dennis Caldwell CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Chiles, David, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4, 25th Infantry Division (January 1968 to December 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy corpse, 2) Indiscriminate killing of two Vietnamese children and an elderly Vietnamese man.
> Investigation summary: Counsel present at interview. Complainant declined to provide any substantive information, saying he would testify only before a Congressional Committee.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> David Chiles CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Craig, Douglas, 22, SP/4, "D" Co., 2nd Bn., 8th Brigade, 1st Air Cav. Division (December 1968 to August 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese.
> Investigation summary: Complainant stated that he had no direct information that civilians were killed and no direct knowledge of the alleged event. He further stated that he had misgivings about testifying at Detroit, as he could not substantiate the allegations.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Douglas Craig CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 9. Craig, Larry, 29, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoner, 2) Desecration of a grave.
> Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI testimony and was unable to provide specific information or identify any U.S or Vietnamese personnel.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Larry Craig CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 10. Donner, Donald, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 20th Brigade, 86th Combat Engineers (August 1967 to July 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese male, 2) Wounding of a 14-year-old Vietnamese girl, 3) Dereliction in the performance of duty, 4) Indiscriminate killing of livestock, 5) Failure to bury enemy dead.
> Investigation summary: Complainant characterized the alleged incidents as accidental, misrepresented by him at WSI, or known to him only by hearsay.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Donald Donner CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 11. Drolshagen, Jon, 26, 1st Lt., 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder and torture of unknown Vietnamese nationals.
> Investigation summary: CID statement refers to allegations made in different venue, six months prior to WSI, by Drolshagen, Edward Barbour (former SP4, 101st Airborne Division) and Frederick Morton (former E5, 11th Armed Cavalry Regiment). Subjects refused to make written statements or to answer questions concerning their allegations.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; case closed.
> 
> Note: Drolshagen's statement at WSI was considerably less specific than his earlier allegation that a major had committed torture and murder. At WSI, Drolshagen spoke vaguely of a major's participation in unspecified activities.
> 
> Edward Barbour / Jon Drolshagen / Frederick Morton CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 12. Duffy, James, 23, SP/5 (E-5), 228 Aviation Bn., 1st Air Cav. Division (February 1967 to April 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Negligent homicide of unidentified Vietnamese child, 2) Maltreatment of prisoners, 3) Assault, 4) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Investigators were unable to contact complainant.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> James Duffy CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 13. Dzagulones, Don, 23, SP/5, 635th Military Intelligence Detachment, attached to 11th Infantry Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to December 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Torture and assault of prisoners / VC suspects.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions. Investigators were unable to identify the unidentified major referred to in the allegations.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Don Dzagulones CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 14. Erard, Michael, 29, SP/5 (E-5), 3/503, 173rd Airborne Brigade (April 1969 to March 1970).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 2) Failure to take prisoners.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statement or provide any information.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Michael Erard CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 15. Farrell, Michael, 24, SP/4 (E-4), "A" Co., 2/60, 9th Infantry Division (January 1967 to January 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese child, 2) Maltreatment of a prisoner, 3) Destruction of crops and livestock.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statements or provide any information on advice of attorney.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Michael Farrell CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 16. Galbally, Joe, 23, SP/4 (E-4), 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (October 1967 to April 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Rape, 3) Assault.
> Investigation summary: Efforts to locate complainant were unsuccessful.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Joe Galbally CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 17. Hagelin, Timon, 21, SP/4 (E-4), Graves Registration Platoon, 243 Field Serv. Co., 1st Logistics Command (August 1968 to August 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Assault of unidentified Vietnamese civilians.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Timon Hagelin CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 18. Hartner, John, 26, Sgt. (E-5), H & HD 3rd Brigade, H & HD 2nd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division (November 1969 to August 1970).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese baby, 2) Wounding of three Vietnamese women, 3) Suppression of the above information.
> Investigation summary: In a sworn statement, complainant refused to provide any information.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> John Hartner CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 19. Henry, James, 23, Sgt., 1st Bn., 3/35th, 4th Infantry Division (August 1967 to August 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder, 2) Rape, 3) Maltreatment of unidentified Vietnamese.
> Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement. An extensive investigation failed to reveal sufficient evidence to prove or disprove the allegations. Subsequent supplementary investigative efforts revealed that a group of unarmed civilians may in fact have been killed by members of Company B, 1/35th Infantry on February 8, 1968. That investigation was ongoing at the time of this report.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigation in progress.
> 
> Note: The CID statement refers to allegations made in several different venues a year prior to WSI, and repeated there. See also Civilian Killings Went Unpunished, Los Angeles Times, August 6, 2006. This is the only known WSI allegation for which there is substantiation.
> 
> James Henry CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 20. Henry, John, 26, SP/4, 2/60, 1/11 Artillery, 9th Infantry Division (March 1968 to February 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Maltreatment of prisoners and Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of livestock and private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> John Henry CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 21. Hunter, Michael, 24, Sgt (E-5), "B" Co., 5/7 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Division (February 1968 to February 1969); "H" Co., 75th Rangers, attached to 1st Air Cav. Div.; "I" Co., 75th Rangers, attached to 1st Inf. Division (September 1969 to March 1970).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Mutilation of corpses, 3) Desecration of graves and destruction of private property, 4) Rape, 5) Refusing to render medical aid, 6) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians (tear gas).
> Investigation summary: Complainant admitted his own offenses orally but would not make a written statement or provide times, dates or names. Numerous former members of Hunter's unit denied his allegations. One witness said that Hunter had killed a Vietnamese man without orders while walking point on a patrol.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Michael Hunter CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 22. Keyes, Gary, 22, SP/4, "E" Troop, 1st Cav. Reg., 11th Brigade, Americal Division (April 1969 to March 1970).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Gassing of villages, 2) Aggravated assault, 3 Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Gary Keyes CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 23. Keys, Eugene, 25, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4 25th Infantry Division (February 1966 to February 1967).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese villages, 2) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant said he would only make a statement to a joint session of Congress.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Eugene Keys CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 24. Kogut, Russell, 22, WO-1, 155 Assault Helicopter Co. (May 1968 to March 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Aggravated assault, 3) Looting and destruction of private property, 4) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese villages.
> Investigation summary: Complainant said a VVAW staffer told him that VVAW's lawyers advised him not to make any statement.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Russell Kogut CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 25. Lenix, Mark, 24, 1st Lt., 1/11th Arty. and 2/39 Infantry, 9th Infantry Division (1968 to 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners and unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Looting and destruction of private property, 4) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese civilians.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Mark Lenix CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 26. Lloyd, Murphy, 27, Sgt. (E-5), "D" Co., 4th Bn., 173 Airborne Brigade (February 1967 to February 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, 2) Torture and maiming of prisoners.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions on advice of lawyer.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Murphy Lloyd CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 27. Lytle, John, 24, SP/4 (E-4), "E" Co., 6/15 Arty., 1st Infantry Division (August 1967 to March 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 2) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegation that villages were targeted indiscriminately, saying that the villages were fired on because it was suspected that VC occupied them and because incoming fire had been received. Lytle was unable to identify any personnel involved or name specific incidents.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> John Lytle CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 28. MacKay, James, 20, Sgt. (E-5), HHQ 3rd Brigade, 9th Inf. Div. (October 1968 to August 1970).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Maltreatment of enemy dead, 3) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> James MacKay CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 29. Mallory, John, 24, Captain, 1st Sq., 11th Arm. Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Division (May 1969 to May 1970).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Desecration of enemy graves, 3) Aggravated assault, 4) Larceny and destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any specific information or identify any of the persons allegedly involved. He said he and the VVAW were only interested in initiating a Congressional investigation into U.S. policy in Vietnam.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> John Mallory CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 30. McConnachie, Robert, 22, Sgt. (E-5), 2/28th, 1st Infantry (October 1967 to October 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Involuntary manslaughter of unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power.
> Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, saying that no Vietnamese children were actually killed by troops throwing C-ration cans at them. He also said he now believed that the alleged killing of civilians in a hospital by artillery fire was accidental.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
> 
> Robert McConnachie CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 31. Misiaszek, Michael, 22, SP/4 (E-4), 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, FSSE (December 1968 to January 1970).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Desecration of graves, 2) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant made oral and written statements, but was unable to substantiate his WSI allegations. Investigation disproved one of his allegations, that Army engineers plowed under Vietnamese graves while constructing a stadium.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Michael Misiaszek CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 32. Noetzel, Steve, 31, SP/4, 5th Special Forces Group Augmentation (May 1963 to May 1964).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoners / detainees, 2) Inhumane treatment of prisoners.
> Investigation summary: The CID statement refers to allegations made in another venue nine months prior to WSI, but the main allegation is basically the same. Complainant Noetzel repeated his allegations orally, but returned a written summary unsigned. An extensive investigation failed to substantiate Noetzel's allegations.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; unfounded / insufficient evidence.
> 
> Gordon Livingston / Robert Johnson / Steve Noetzel CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 33. Ostrenga, Patrick, "D" Co., 25th Infantry Division (February to December - year unknown).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Refusing to render medical treatment to wounded prisoners and Vietnamese.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Patrick Ostrenga CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 34. Palosaari, Ronald, 23, SP/4, 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (1967 to 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Mutilation of corpse.
> Investigation summary: Complainant was unable to provide specific dates, locations or names of individuals allegedly involved, and backtracked on his WSI allegation that he had witnessed the mutilation of enemy dead.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Ronald Palosaari CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 35. Perry, Bill, 23, Pfc. (E-3), "A" Co., 1/506, 101st Airborne Division (November 1966 to August 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 2) Mutilation of corpses.
> Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Bill Perry CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 36. Podlaski, Ron, 24, Sgt. (E-5), 5th Special Forces Group (April 1968 to April 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, Vietnamese civilians and a Laotian national, 2) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant declined to answer questions pending advice from his attorney, then moved and could not be located.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Ron Podlaski CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 37. Pugsley, Don, 23, SP/4, 5th Special Forces (October 1969 to December 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate destruction of livestock.
> Investigation summary: Complainant said in a sworn statement that the strafing of water buffalo he alleged at WSI did not actually occur.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
> 
> Don Pugsley CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 38. Rice, William, 21, SP/4, 3/47th and HQ, 3rd Brigade, 9th Infantry Division (January 1969 to January 1970).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, 2) Torture of prisoners, 3) Maltreatment of prisoners.
> Investigation summary: Complainant declined to make any statements or provide any information concerning his allegations.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> William Rice CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 39. Rippberger, Carl, 23, (E-4), "K" Troop, 3rd Squad, 11th Armored Cav. Reg., attached to 9th Infantry Division (May 1967 to May 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners, 2) Failure to bury enemy dead, 3) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations on advice from his attorney.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Carl Rippberger CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 40. Rottmann, Larry, 25, 1st Lt., Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (June 1967 to March 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Presence of nerve agents in Vietnam, 2) Suppression of war crime information from news media, 3) Wearing of ears and scalps by US forces, 4) Murder of enemy personnel attempting to surrender, 5) Destruction of Vietnamese villages by bombing and napalm, 6) Torture of VC/NVA.
> Investigation summary: The CID statement refers to allegations made at two different venues, nine months and two months prior to WSI. Rottman's WSI testimony was about military press censorship and he did not allege any war crimes there. Attempts to contact the complainant were unsuccessful. The case was closed due to the lack of cooperation and the lack of any definitive leads.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; case closed.
> 
> Larry Rottmann / Michael Uhl CID Investigation Report
> 
> Note: The CID also investigated an allegation by Rottmann that General Westmoreland had ordered the destruction of a village in the Mekong Delta. This allegation was determined to be unfounded.
> 
> Larry Rottmann CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 41. Ruth, Kenneth, 26, (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Div. (February 1966 to February 1967).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Torture of VC suspects, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, resulting in the injury of 43 Vietnamese civilians.
> Investigation summary: Complainant's WSI allegations were found to be unsubstantiated. He also backtracked on an additional claim made in a LIFE Magazine article, stating to investigators that he had no personal knowledge of casualties as a result of the test firing of weapons.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
> 
> Kenneth Ruth CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 42. Schorr, Sam, SP/4 (E-4), 86th Combat Engineers (September 1966 to September 1967).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Desecration of graves, 3 Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions about his allegations. He further stated that if the President of the United States was investigated for war crimes, he would release information relative to his testimony.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Sam Schorr CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 43. Shepard, Franklin, 23, S. Sgt. (E-6), 5/60, 9th Infantry Division (March 1968 to August 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy dead and unidentified Vietnamese.
> Investigation summary: Complainant provided a written, sworn statement in support of his allegation. Multiple witnesses interviewed contradicted Shepard's claims, and further investigation also failed to support his statements.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
> 
> Franklin Shepard CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 44. Smith, George, (E-6), 5th Special Forces; taken prisoner by the NLF in 1963 and released in November 1965.
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Maltreatment of prisoners.
> Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, stating that Vietnamese troops rather than American troops had committed illegal acts.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
> 
> George Smith CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 45. Stark, David, 25, SP/5 (E-5), 524 Military Intelligence Detachment (October 1967 to October 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power resulting in the deaths of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Maltreatment of prisoners.
> Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, saying that he had not witnessed the maltreatment of prisoners, and that he saw no bodies and could not identify the military units involved in the alleged events.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
> 
> David Stark CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 46. Stephens, Charles, 24, Pfc. (E-3), 1/327, 101st Airborne Division (December 1965 to February 1967).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of Vietnamese civilians and prisoners, 2) Mutilation of enemy dead, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Refusing to render medical aid.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any statement on advice of counsel concerning both WSI and LIFE Magazine allegations.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Charles Stephens CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 47. Weber, Jim, 24, Sgt. (E-5), "A" Co., 1/6 and 1/46, 198 LIB, Americal Division (November 1967 to November 1968).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese and prisoners, 2) Assault, 3) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any statement, saying the only subject he would identify was President Johnson.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Jim Weber CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> 48. Wiktorski, Robert, 22, SP/4 (E-4), "C" Co., 2/12 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Div.(May 1968 to May 1969).
> 
> 
> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified North Vietnamese Army soldier, 2) Aggravated assault.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statement or provide any information.
> 
> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
> 
> Robert Wiktorski CID Investigation Report
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> The following are Army WSI witnesses whose available summary reports show inconclusive preliminary investigations:1. Bezanson, William, 24, Pfc., 4/3, 11th Brigade, Americal Division and 123rd Aviation Bn. (1967 to 1968).Allegation: 1) Torture of enemy prisoners, 2) Indiscriminate killing of 15 unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 3) Destruction of private property.
> Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.
> 
> 2. Crouse, Allan, 22 (E-4), 3rd Engineers Brigade, 82nd Airborne Division (January 1969 to December 1969).Allegation: 1) Destruction of private property.
> Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.
> 
> 3. Hopkins, Barry, 23, 3/39th, 9th Infantry Division (January 1969 to January 1970).Allegation: 1) Murder, 2) Maltreatment of female prisoners, 3) Failure to render medical treatment to prisoner.
> Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.
> 
> ----------
> 
> 
> The following are Army WSI witnesses for whom no summary reports have been found:1. Bjornson, Dr. Jon, 37, Major, Psychiatrist, Flight Surgeon, Deputy Surgeon, USASC, 8th Field Hospital, Nha Trang (May 1964 to April 1965).
> 
> 
> Summary of WSI allegations: Asserted that war crimes are routinely committed by the U.S. military. Theorized about causes of criminal violence in troops, promotes widespread drug abuse exaggerations, and blamed the American system for evil nature of troops. Quoted Marx. No claim to have personal knowledge of war crimes.2. Braum, David, 25, SP/5, 21 Trans. Co., 119 Avn. Co. Airmobile, 52 Combat Avn. Bn., 52 Prov. Plt., Delta Bn. (1963-1964).Summary of WSI allegations: Moderator of "Weapons Panel" at WSI. Made the absurd claim that "...in civilian life I was, for five years, purchasing all materials and supplies for the United States Air Force, the U.S. Navy, the Atomic Energy Commission, the Army and the CIA...." Characterized various weapons systems as de facto illegal and/or immoral. Provided slides for presentation that depicted equipment, not events.3. Carey, Orville, 1st Logistics Command. Postal clerk in Pleiku, Vietnam. Appeared on "Third World Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: No allegations of war crimes. Alleged racism in Army, stating, "We [in U.S. Army, Germany] had Klansmen... and this was more or less accepted as policy. Nobody worried about cross burnings or stuff... There was no chance for a promotion. You were handed out all the vile details... The only way I could get out of Germany was to volunteer to go to Vietnam."4. Crandell, William, 26, 1LT, 199th LIB, Americal Division. Made "Opening Statement" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalizations about genocide and pervasive war crimes as a result of policy.
> 
> 
> 5. Crumb, Jan, 28, SP/4, 18th Aviation Co. (December 1961 to October 1963). Moderator, along with John Kerry, of "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: No discernible record of remarks. The caption "Moderator" is used throughout in the transcript, not distinguishing between the two moderators.6. Duncan, Don, M/Sgt., 5th Special Forces (1964 to 1965). Made "Closing Statement" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalizations. Blamed entire country and media for atrocities. "It has been done systematically, deliberately, and continuously...." Argued that American schools and American society need to be changed. "...I think the fact that so much can be done to so many men by so few people is the greatest testament to the fact that our colleges, our high schools, our everyday life is nothing but pre-basic training."7. Egendorf, Arthur, 525 Military Intelligence Group, Saigon. Appeared on "What Are We Doing To Ourselves Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Said that he went to Harvard and majored in economics. "...the institutions of this society are very much a part of the phenomenon that we're discussing..." Claimed that corporations and the media were providing cover identities for covert operatives. No specific war crimes allegations.8. Galicia, Dr. David, Major, Psychiatrist, 3rd Field Hospital, Saigon (July 1969 to June 1970). Appeared on "Medical Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testified about the poor condition, as he saw it, of medical and psychiatric services. Spoke of drug abuse among troops, lack of American medical care for Vietnamese, and criticized the effects of some incendiary weapons. No war crimes allegations.9. Grosso, Dr. Joseph, 31, Captain, General Medical Officer, 173rd Airborne Brigade, Field Hospital, Nha Trang (April 1967 to December 1967). Appeared on "Medical Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Claimed that the Army's Medical Civil Action Program (MedCap) "...was an attempt to use the practice of medicine as a propaganda device" Alleged that "...it was more or less command policy that prostitution be part of the military operation." No war crimes allegations.10. Hale, Nathan, 23, SP/5, 199th LIB, Americal Division (December 1967 to December 1968). Appeared on "3rd Marine Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Claimed that "...in January of '68 I was assigned to the 1st Cav., Americal Division." -- The 1st Cav. and the Americal are two different divisions. Said that he took part in a Marine mission called Daring Endeavors, south of Da Nang, during October 1968. Displayed slides purportedly showing Vietnamese National Field Police interrogating a prisoner using torture. Hale claimed he also used torture to interrogate enemy prisoners, and alleged that an enemy combatant died as result of the use of CS (tear) gas in a tunnel.
> Note: A memo dated 21 April 1971 from Col. Tufts (head of CID) to CoS, U.S. Army, stated that Hale's complaint was under investigation. No other CID documents available to date refer to his allegations.
> 
> 11. Kruch, Robert, 25, Pfc. (E-3), Co. A, 3/21, 196 LIB, Americal Division. Appeared on "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Talks about poor leadership and maltreatment of U.S. troops by commanders. Says his company refused "to go back out" at one point. No war crimes allegations.12. Light, William, 22 (E-3), "E" Co., 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (May 1968 to June 1969). Appeared at "Third World Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalized remarks about racism. No war crimes allegations. Received a General Discharge.13. McSheffrey, Ron, 6/31 9th Infantry Division (1969-1970). Appeared on "What Are We Doing To Ourselves Panel" at WSI, erroneously listed as "Dr." McSheffrey.Summary of WSI allegations: Tells of his drug addiction in Vietnam. No war crimes allegations. Received a "212 discharge" - namely, "honorable wartime service subsequent to desertion."14. Moore, Scott, 26, 1st Lt., 2/39th, 9th Infantry Division (1968 to 1969). Appeared on the "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalized complaints. No war crimes allegations."15. Murphy, Ed, 23, Sgt. (E-5), 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (October 1967 to September 1968). Appeared on "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony consists of one paragraph of generalized remarks affirming the testimony of others.
> Note: A memo dated 21 April 1971 from Col. Tufts (head of CID) to CoS, U.S. Army, stated that Murphy's complaint was under investigation. No other CID documents available to date refer to his allegations.
> 
> 16. Newton, Ron, 24, Pfc. (E-3), 3rd Brigade, HHQ Co., 704 Maintenance Bn., 4th Infantry Division (July 1966 to June 1967). Appeared on "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complains about Army training, poor medical care and alleged racism towards Vietnamese. No war crimes allegations."17. Novick, Wayne, 22, SP/4, 1st En., 26th Inf., 1st Inf. Division (February 1969 to February 1970). Moderator of the "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Asked questions of witnesses. No independent war crimes allegations.18. Pitkin, Steve, 20, SP/4, "C" Co., 2/239, 9th Infantry Division (May 1969 to July 1969). Appeared on "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Said that he would "...testify about the beating of civilians and enemy personnel, destruction of villages, indiscriminate use of artillery, the general racism and the attitude of the American GI toward the Vietnamese." This was followed by generalized complaining about the military. No specific war crimes allegations.
> Note: Pitkin publicly recanted his participation in WSI in 2004, saying in a signed affidavit that he had been pressured to present false testimony about war crimes in Vietnam by other VVAW members, including John Kerry.
> 
> 19. Primm, Alex, 26, SP/4 (E-4), Public Information Office, 1st Logistics Command, Headquarters (September 1968 to June 1969). Appeared on "25th Infantry Division and Public Information Office Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complained about military and other news reporting. No war crimes allegations.20. Romo, Barry, 23, 1st Lt., "A" Co., 2/1, 196 LIB, "C" Co., 3/4, 11th Inf. Brigade, Americal Division (June 1967 to November 1968). Moderator of the "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Mostly generalizations about racism toward Latinos. He is Chicano and became a commissioned officer at age 19. No war crimes allegations.21. Shibla, Vernon, 27, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967). Appeared on "25th Infantry Division and Public Information Office Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complained about Army Public Information policies of censorship. No war crimes allegations.22. Umenhofer, James, SP/4 (E-4), 2/501, 101st Airborne Division (November 1969 to October 1970). Appeared on the "82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and 173rd Airborne Brigade Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Mostly generalizations. One allegation of racially motivated fragging.23. Williams, Donald P. Did not serve in Vietnam. Claimed 8 years active duty service, units not revealed. Said he deserted to Sweden after his unit was deployed to Saigon in March 1968. Appeared on "Third World Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complained of racism. Falsely claimed that "...statistics say that blacks constitute only ten percent of the total population in the United States, yet they represent at least forty percent of the fighting forces in Vietnam." Proposed smoking grass as an antidote to racism.24. Wingrodski, Curtis, 22, SP/4, 59th Scout Dog, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (March 1969 to October 1969). Appeared on the "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony is brief, lacking any content. No war crimes allegations.25. Wright, Doug, SP/4, 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division. Appeared on "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony is brief, lacking any content. "And these things go on..." "Here I am, you know." No war crimes allegations.
> Thanks to John Boyle for making these reports available and providing summary information.
> 
> Last Updated Tuesday, March 04 2008 @ 03:37 PM EST; 69,495 Hits


What a lovely word wall.


----------



## hazlnut

FBI took care of business.

Good job.

Terrorists go to ground.


----------



## koshergrl

jc456 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No deer rifle. No weapon at all. Hands in the air. No returned fire, no resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KG, you really do watch way too much violent fiction on TV. I'm surprised that you did not identify Dirty Hairy pulling the trigger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, someone stated there was an eyewitness saying he had a deer rifle and reaching for it. It's the reason for the post
Click to expand...

 You can't hide a deer rifle in your pocket, lol.


----------



## Camp

hazlnut said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> WinterSoldier.com - Army CID Investigations of VVAW War Crimes Allegations
> 
> In April 1971, Sen. Mark Hatfield placed transcripts from the Vietnam Veterans Against the War's "Winter Soldier Investigation" (WSI) war crimes conference into the Congressional Record. The House Committee on Armed Services responded by directing the Department of Defense to conduct a prompt review of the VVAW's allegations.
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> The Army's Criminal Investigation Division (CID) opened a case for each witness who claimed to have knowledge of criminal actions by the Army. These cases are described below, with links to the actual Army summary reports.
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> Note: Personal information and the names of non-VVAW witnesses have been redacted from the summary reports.
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> The following are Army WSI witnesses investigated by the CID:
> Note: Cases 1, 11, 19, 32 and 40 cover allegations made outside WSI by witnesses who also made WSI statements.
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> 1. Beitzel, John, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 4/21, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to January 1970).
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> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate firing upon unarmed Vietnamese, 2) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners/detainees, 3) Mutilation of dead bodies.
> Investigation summary: Complainants Beitzel and Joseph Brenman refused to provide specific information to support their allegations, which were made in a venue other than WSI, but are basically the same. Joe Bangert (USMC) and Jeffrey Dubrow (USN) accompanied Beitzel and Brenman at the subject venue.
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> Result: Investigation terminated; insufficient evidence.
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> John Beitzel / Joseph Brenman CID Investigation Report
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> 2. Bernath, Fred, 26, 1st Lt., 101st MP Co., 101st Airborne Division (December 1968 to October 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Electrical torture of prisoners/detainees, 2) Gassing of civilians.
> Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement supporting his WSI claims, but was unable to identify any of the individuals involved or the date of the incident. He did name a possible witness who subsequently submitted a sworn statement denying any knowledge of the events alleged by Bernath.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Fred Bernath CID Investigation Report
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> 3. Bunge, Sam, 1st Lt., "B" Co., 3/187, 101st Airborne Division (July 1968 to June 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of Vietnamese male, 2) Desecration of graves, 3) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians.
> Investigation summary: Complainant repeated WSI claims but refused to sign a written statement. He provided names of possible witnesses but did not name any of those allegedly involved, including his former commanding officer. Interviews with former members of Bunge's unit and his former commanding officers revealed no evidence that supported the allegations.
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> Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigative efforts completed; unfounded.
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> Sam Bunge CID Investigation Report
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> 4. Butts, Dennis, 24, SP/4 (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12, 25th Infantry Division and "E" Co., 4/39, 9th Infantry Division (September 1966 to September 1967).
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> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate killing and wounding of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to cooperate without immunity on advice of VVAW counsel.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Dennis Butts CID Investigation Report
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> 5. Byrne, Kevin, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 42nd Scout Dog, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (November 1968 to November 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of an NVA officer, 2) Failure to render medical treatment, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer questions or provide further information for fear of "causing trouble for the peons instead of the generals."
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Kevin Byrne CID Investigation Report
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> 6. Caldwell, Dennis, 24, CWO-2, "A" Trp., 3/17, Air Cav., 1st Aviation Brigade (October 1968 to October 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Indiscriminate destruction of villages, 4) Gassing (tear gas) of civilians and livestock, 5) Aggravated assault on a prisoner.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions or provide further information.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Dennis Caldwell CID Investigation Report
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> 7. Chiles, David, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4, 25th Infantry Division (January 1968 to December 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy corpse, 2) Indiscriminate killing of two Vietnamese children and an elderly Vietnamese man.
> Investigation summary: Counsel present at interview. Complainant declined to provide any substantive information, saying he would testify only before a Congressional Committee.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> David Chiles CID Investigation Report
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> 8. Craig, Douglas, 22, SP/4, "D" Co., 2nd Bn., 8th Brigade, 1st Air Cav. Division (December 1968 to August 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese.
> Investigation summary: Complainant stated that he had no direct information that civilians were killed and no direct knowledge of the alleged event. He further stated that he had misgivings about testifying at Detroit, as he could not substantiate the allegations.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Douglas Craig CID Investigation Report
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> 9. Craig, Larry, 29, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoner, 2) Desecration of a grave.
> Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI testimony and was unable to provide specific information or identify any U.S or Vietnamese personnel.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Larry Craig CID Investigation Report
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> 10. Donner, Donald, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 20th Brigade, 86th Combat Engineers (August 1967 to July 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese male, 2) Wounding of a 14-year-old Vietnamese girl, 3) Dereliction in the performance of duty, 4) Indiscriminate killing of livestock, 5) Failure to bury enemy dead.
> Investigation summary: Complainant characterized the alleged incidents as accidental, misrepresented by him at WSI, or known to him only by hearsay.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Donald Donner CID Investigation Report
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> 11. Drolshagen, Jon, 26, 1st Lt., 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder and torture of unknown Vietnamese nationals.
> Investigation summary: CID statement refers to allegations made in different venue, six months prior to WSI, by Drolshagen, Edward Barbour (former SP4, 101st Airborne Division) and Frederick Morton (former E5, 11th Armed Cavalry Regiment). Subjects refused to make written statements or to answer questions concerning their allegations.
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> Result: Investigation completed; case closed.
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> Note: Drolshagen's statement at WSI was considerably less specific than his earlier allegation that a major had committed torture and murder. At WSI, Drolshagen spoke vaguely of a major's participation in unspecified activities.
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> Edward Barbour / Jon Drolshagen / Frederick Morton CID Investigation Report
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> 12. Duffy, James, 23, SP/5 (E-5), 228 Aviation Bn., 1st Air Cav. Division (February 1967 to April 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Negligent homicide of unidentified Vietnamese child, 2) Maltreatment of prisoners, 3) Assault, 4) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Investigators were unable to contact complainant.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> James Duffy CID Investigation Report
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> 13. Dzagulones, Don, 23, SP/5, 635th Military Intelligence Detachment, attached to 11th Infantry Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to December 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Torture and assault of prisoners / VC suspects.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions. Investigators were unable to identify the unidentified major referred to in the allegations.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Don Dzagulones CID Investigation Report
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> 14. Erard, Michael, 29, SP/5 (E-5), 3/503, 173rd Airborne Brigade (April 1969 to March 1970).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 2) Failure to take prisoners.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statement or provide any information.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Michael Erard CID Investigation Report
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> 15. Farrell, Michael, 24, SP/4 (E-4), "A" Co., 2/60, 9th Infantry Division (January 1967 to January 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese child, 2) Maltreatment of a prisoner, 3) Destruction of crops and livestock.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statements or provide any information on advice of attorney.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Michael Farrell CID Investigation Report
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> 16. Galbally, Joe, 23, SP/4 (E-4), 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (October 1967 to April 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Rape, 3) Assault.
> Investigation summary: Efforts to locate complainant were unsuccessful.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Joe Galbally CID Investigation Report
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> 17. Hagelin, Timon, 21, SP/4 (E-4), Graves Registration Platoon, 243 Field Serv. Co., 1st Logistics Command (August 1968 to August 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Assault of unidentified Vietnamese civilians.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Timon Hagelin CID Investigation Report
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> 18. Hartner, John, 26, Sgt. (E-5), H & HD 3rd Brigade, H & HD 2nd Brigade, 4th Infantry Division (November 1969 to August 1970).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese baby, 2) Wounding of three Vietnamese women, 3) Suppression of the above information.
> Investigation summary: In a sworn statement, complainant refused to provide any information.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> John Hartner CID Investigation Report
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> 19. Henry, James, 23, Sgt., 1st Bn., 3/35th, 4th Infantry Division (August 1967 to August 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder, 2) Rape, 3) Maltreatment of unidentified Vietnamese.
> Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement. An extensive investigation failed to reveal sufficient evidence to prove or disprove the allegations. Subsequent supplementary investigative efforts revealed that a group of unarmed civilians may in fact have been killed by members of Company B, 1/35th Infantry on February 8, 1968. That investigation was ongoing at the time of this report.
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> Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigation in progress.
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> Note: The CID statement refers to allegations made in several different venues a year prior to WSI, and repeated there. See also Civilian Killings Went Unpunished, Los Angeles Times, August 6, 2006. This is the only known WSI allegation for which there is substantiation.
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> James Henry CID Investigation Report
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> 20. Henry, John, 26, SP/4, 2/60, 1/11 Artillery, 9th Infantry Division (March 1968 to February 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Maltreatment of prisoners and Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of livestock and private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> John Henry CID Investigation Report
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> 21. Hunter, Michael, 24, Sgt (E-5), "B" Co., 5/7 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Division (February 1968 to February 1969); "H" Co., 75th Rangers, attached to 1st Air Cav. Div.; "I" Co., 75th Rangers, attached to 1st Inf. Division (September 1969 to March 1970).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Mutilation of corpses, 3) Desecration of graves and destruction of private property, 4) Rape, 5) Refusing to render medical aid, 6) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians (tear gas).
> Investigation summary: Complainant admitted his own offenses orally but would not make a written statement or provide times, dates or names. Numerous former members of Hunter's unit denied his allegations. One witness said that Hunter had killed a Vietnamese man without orders while walking point on a patrol.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Michael Hunter CID Investigation Report
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> 22. Keyes, Gary, 22, SP/4, "E" Troop, 1st Cav. Reg., 11th Brigade, Americal Division (April 1969 to March 1970).
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> Allegation: 1) Gassing of villages, 2) Aggravated assault, 3 Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Gary Keyes CID Investigation Report
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> 23. Keys, Eugene, 25, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4 25th Infantry Division (February 1966 to February 1967).
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> Allegation: 1) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese villages, 2) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant said he would only make a statement to a joint session of Congress.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Eugene Keys CID Investigation Report
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> 24. Kogut, Russell, 22, WO-1, 155 Assault Helicopter Co. (May 1968 to March 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Aggravated assault, 3) Looting and destruction of private property, 4) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese villages.
> Investigation summary: Complainant said a VVAW staffer told him that VVAW's lawyers advised him not to make any statement.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Russell Kogut CID Investigation Report
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> 25. Lenix, Mark, 24, 1st Lt., 1/11th Arty. and 2/39 Infantry, 9th Infantry Division (1968 to 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners and unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Looting and destruction of private property, 4) Forced evacuation of Vietnamese civilians.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Mark Lenix CID Investigation Report
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> 26. Lloyd, Murphy, 27, Sgt. (E-5), "D" Co., 4th Bn., 173 Airborne Brigade (February 1967 to February 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, 2) Torture and maiming of prisoners.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions on advice of lawyer.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Murphy Lloyd CID Investigation Report
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> 27. Lytle, John, 24, SP/4 (E-4), "E" Co., 6/15 Arty., 1st Infantry Division (August 1967 to March 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 2) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegation that villages were targeted indiscriminately, saying that the villages were fired on because it was suspected that VC occupied them and because incoming fire had been received. Lytle was unable to identify any personnel involved or name specific incidents.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> John Lytle CID Investigation Report
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> 28. MacKay, James, 20, Sgt. (E-5), HHQ 3rd Brigade, 9th Inf. Div. (October 1968 to August 1970).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Maltreatment of enemy dead, 3) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> James MacKay CID Investigation Report
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> 29. Mallory, John, 24, Captain, 1st Sq., 11th Arm. Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Division (May 1969 to May 1970).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Desecration of enemy graves, 3) Aggravated assault, 4) Larceny and destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any specific information or identify any of the persons allegedly involved. He said he and the VVAW were only interested in initiating a Congressional investigation into U.S. policy in Vietnam.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> John Mallory CID Investigation Report
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> 30. McConnachie, Robert, 22, Sgt. (E-5), 2/28th, 1st Infantry (October 1967 to October 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Involuntary manslaughter of unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power.
> Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, saying that no Vietnamese children were actually killed by troops throwing C-ration cans at them. He also said he now believed that the alleged killing of civilians in a hospital by artillery fire was accidental.
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> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
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> Robert McConnachie CID Investigation Report
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> 31. Misiaszek, Michael, 22, SP/4 (E-4), 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, FSSE (December 1968 to January 1970).
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> Allegation: 1) Desecration of graves, 2) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant made oral and written statements, but was unable to substantiate his WSI allegations. Investigation disproved one of his allegations, that Army engineers plowed under Vietnamese graves while constructing a stadium.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Michael Misiaszek CID Investigation Report
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> 32. Noetzel, Steve, 31, SP/4, 5th Special Forces Group Augmentation (May 1963 to May 1964).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoners / detainees, 2) Inhumane treatment of prisoners.
> Investigation summary: The CID statement refers to allegations made in another venue nine months prior to WSI, but the main allegation is basically the same. Complainant Noetzel repeated his allegations orally, but returned a written summary unsigned. An extensive investigation failed to substantiate Noetzel's allegations.
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> Result: Investigation completed; unfounded / insufficient evidence.
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> Gordon Livingston / Robert Johnson / Steve Noetzel CID Investigation Report
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> 33. Ostrenga, Patrick, "D" Co., 25th Infantry Division (February to December - year unknown).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Refusing to render medical treatment to wounded prisoners and Vietnamese.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Patrick Ostrenga CID Investigation Report
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> 34. Palosaari, Ronald, 23, SP/4, 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (1967 to 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Mutilation of corpse.
> Investigation summary: Complainant was unable to provide specific dates, locations or names of individuals allegedly involved, and backtracked on his WSI allegation that he had witnessed the mutilation of enemy dead.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Ronald Palosaari CID Investigation Report
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> 35. Perry, Bill, 23, Pfc. (E-3), "A" Co., 1/506, 101st Airborne Division (November 1966 to August 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 2) Mutilation of corpses.
> Investigation summary: Complainant could not be located.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Bill Perry CID Investigation Report
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> 36. Podlaski, Ron, 24, Sgt. (E-5), 5th Special Forces Group (April 1968 to April 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, Vietnamese civilians and a Laotian national, 2) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant declined to answer questions pending advice from his attorney, then moved and could not be located.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Ron Podlaski CID Investigation Report
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> 37. Pugsley, Don, 23, SP/4, 5th Special Forces (October 1969 to December 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate destruction of livestock.
> Investigation summary: Complainant said in a sworn statement that the strafing of water buffalo he alleged at WSI did not actually occur.
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> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
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> Don Pugsley CID Investigation Report
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> 38. Rice, William, 21, SP/4, 3/47th and HQ, 3rd Brigade, 9th Infantry Division (January 1969 to January 1970).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of prisoners, 2) Torture of prisoners, 3) Maltreatment of prisoners.
> Investigation summary: Complainant declined to make any statements or provide any information concerning his allegations.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> William Rice CID Investigation Report
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> 39. Rippberger, Carl, 23, (E-4), "K" Troop, 3rd Squad, 11th Armored Cav. Reg., attached to 9th Infantry Division (May 1967 to May 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners, 2) Failure to bury enemy dead, 3) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any information concerning his allegations on advice from his attorney.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Carl Rippberger CID Investigation Report
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> 40. Rottmann, Larry, 25, 1st Lt., Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (June 1967 to March 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Presence of nerve agents in Vietnam, 2) Suppression of war crime information from news media, 3) Wearing of ears and scalps by US forces, 4) Murder of enemy personnel attempting to surrender, 5) Destruction of Vietnamese villages by bombing and napalm, 6) Torture of VC/NVA.
> Investigation summary: The CID statement refers to allegations made at two different venues, nine months and two months prior to WSI. Rottman's WSI testimony was about military press censorship and he did not allege any war crimes there. Attempts to contact the complainant were unsuccessful. The case was closed due to the lack of cooperation and the lack of any definitive leads.
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> Result: Investigation completed; case closed.
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> Larry Rottmann / Michael Uhl CID Investigation Report
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> Note: The CID also investigated an allegation by Rottmann that General Westmoreland had ordered the destruction of a village in the Mekong Delta. This allegation was determined to be unfounded.
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> Larry Rottmann CID Investigation Report
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> 41. Ruth, Kenneth, 26, (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Div. (February 1966 to February 1967).
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> Allegation: 1) Torture of VC suspects, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, resulting in the injury of 43 Vietnamese civilians.
> Investigation summary: Complainant's WSI allegations were found to be unsubstantiated. He also backtracked on an additional claim made in a LIFE Magazine article, stating to investigators that he had no personal knowledge of casualties as a result of the test firing of weapons.
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> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
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> Kenneth Ruth CID Investigation Report
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> 42. Schorr, Sam, SP/4 (E-4), 86th Combat Engineers (September 1966 to September 1967).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Desecration of graves, 3 Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions about his allegations. He further stated that if the President of the United States was investigated for war crimes, he would release information relative to his testimony.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Sam Schorr CID Investigation Report
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> 43. Shepard, Franklin, 23, S. Sgt. (E-6), 5/60, 9th Infantry Division (March 1968 to August 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy dead and unidentified Vietnamese.
> Investigation summary: Complainant provided a written, sworn statement in support of his allegation. Multiple witnesses interviewed contradicted Shepard's claims, and further investigation also failed to support his statements.
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> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
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> Franklin Shepard CID Investigation Report
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> 44. Smith, George, (E-6), 5th Special Forces; taken prisoner by the NLF in 1963 and released in November 1965.
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> Allegation: 1) Maltreatment of prisoners.
> Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, stating that Vietnamese troops rather than American troops had committed illegal acts.
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> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
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> George Smith CID Investigation Report
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> 45. Stark, David, 25, SP/5 (E-5), 524 Military Intelligence Detachment (October 1967 to October 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate use of fire power resulting in the deaths of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Maltreatment of prisoners.
> Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI allegations, saying that he had not witnessed the maltreatment of prisoners, and that he saw no bodies and could not identify the military units involved in the alleged events.
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> Result: Investigation completed; unsubstantiated.
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> David Stark CID Investigation Report
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> 46. Stephens, Charles, 24, Pfc. (E-3), 1/327, 101st Airborne Division (December 1965 to February 1967).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of Vietnamese civilians and prisoners, 2) Mutilation of enemy dead, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Refusing to render medical aid.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any statement on advice of counsel concerning both WSI and LIFE Magazine allegations.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Charles Stephens CID Investigation Report
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> 47. Weber, Jim, 24, Sgt. (E-5), "A" Co., 1/6 and 1/46, 198 LIB, Americal Division (November 1967 to November 1968).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese and prisoners, 2) Assault, 3) Destruction of private property.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to provide any statement, saying the only subject he would identify was President Johnson.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Jim Weber CID Investigation Report
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> 48. Wiktorski, Robert, 22, SP/4 (E-4), "C" Co., 2/12 Air Cav. Reg., 1st Air Cav. Div.(May 1968 to May 1969).
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> Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified North Vietnamese Army soldier, 2) Aggravated assault.
> Investigation summary: Complainant refused to make any statement or provide any information.
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> Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
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> Robert Wiktorski CID Investigation Report
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> The following are Army WSI witnesses whose available summary reports show inconclusive preliminary investigations:1. Bezanson, William, 24, Pfc., 4/3, 11th Brigade, Americal Division and 123rd Aviation Bn. (1967 to 1968).Allegation: 1) Torture of enemy prisoners, 2) Indiscriminate killing of 15 unidentified Vietnamese civilians, 3) Destruction of private property.
> Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.
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> 2. Crouse, Allan, 22 (E-4), 3rd Engineers Brigade, 82nd Airborne Division (January 1969 to December 1969).Allegation: 1) Destruction of private property.
> Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.
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> 3. Hopkins, Barry, 23, 3/39th, 9th Infantry Division (January 1969 to January 1970).Allegation: 1) Murder, 2) Maltreatment of female prisoners, 3) Failure to render medical treatment to prisoner.
> Preliminary investigation summary: Unable to identify complainant.
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> The following are Army WSI witnesses for whom no summary reports have been found:1. Bjornson, Dr. Jon, 37, Major, Psychiatrist, Flight Surgeon, Deputy Surgeon, USASC, 8th Field Hospital, Nha Trang (May 1964 to April 1965).
> 
> 
> Summary of WSI allegations: Asserted that war crimes are routinely committed by the U.S. military. Theorized about causes of criminal violence in troops, promotes widespread drug abuse exaggerations, and blamed the American system for evil nature of troops. Quoted Marx. No claim to have personal knowledge of war crimes.2. Braum, David, 25, SP/5, 21 Trans. Co., 119 Avn. Co. Airmobile, 52 Combat Avn. Bn., 52 Prov. Plt., Delta Bn. (1963-1964).Summary of WSI allegations: Moderator of "Weapons Panel" at WSI. Made the absurd claim that "...in civilian life I was, for five years, purchasing all materials and supplies for the United States Air Force, the U.S. Navy, the Atomic Energy Commission, the Army and the CIA...." Characterized various weapons systems as de facto illegal and/or immoral. Provided slides for presentation that depicted equipment, not events.3. Carey, Orville, 1st Logistics Command. Postal clerk in Pleiku, Vietnam. Appeared on "Third World Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: No allegations of war crimes. Alleged racism in Army, stating, "We [in U.S. Army, Germany] had Klansmen... and this was more or less accepted as policy. Nobody worried about cross burnings or stuff... There was no chance for a promotion. You were handed out all the vile details... The only way I could get out of Germany was to volunteer to go to Vietnam."4. Crandell, William, 26, 1LT, 199th LIB, Americal Division. Made "Opening Statement" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalizations about genocide and pervasive war crimes as a result of policy.
> 
> 
> 5. Crumb, Jan, 28, SP/4, 18th Aviation Co. (December 1961 to October 1963). Moderator, along with John Kerry, of "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: No discernible record of remarks. The caption "Moderator" is used throughout in the transcript, not distinguishing between the two moderators.6. Duncan, Don, M/Sgt., 5th Special Forces (1964 to 1965). Made "Closing Statement" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalizations. Blamed entire country and media for atrocities. "It has been done systematically, deliberately, and continuously...." Argued that American schools and American society need to be changed. "...I think the fact that so much can be done to so many men by so few people is the greatest testament to the fact that our colleges, our high schools, our everyday life is nothing but pre-basic training."7. Egendorf, Arthur, 525 Military Intelligence Group, Saigon. Appeared on "What Are We Doing To Ourselves Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Said that he went to Harvard and majored in economics. "...the institutions of this society are very much a part of the phenomenon that we're discussing..." Claimed that corporations and the media were providing cover identities for covert operatives. No specific war crimes allegations.8. Galicia, Dr. David, Major, Psychiatrist, 3rd Field Hospital, Saigon (July 1969 to June 1970). Appeared on "Medical Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testified about the poor condition, as he saw it, of medical and psychiatric services. Spoke of drug abuse among troops, lack of American medical care for Vietnamese, and criticized the effects of some incendiary weapons. No war crimes allegations.9. Grosso, Dr. Joseph, 31, Captain, General Medical Officer, 173rd Airborne Brigade, Field Hospital, Nha Trang (April 1967 to December 1967). Appeared on "Medical Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Claimed that the Army's Medical Civil Action Program (MedCap) "...was an attempt to use the practice of medicine as a propaganda device" Alleged that "...it was more or less command policy that prostitution be part of the military operation." No war crimes allegations.10. Hale, Nathan, 23, SP/5, 199th LIB, Americal Division (December 1967 to December 1968). Appeared on "3rd Marine Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Claimed that "...in January of '68 I was assigned to the 1st Cav., Americal Division." -- The 1st Cav. and the Americal are two different divisions. Said that he took part in a Marine mission called Daring Endeavors, south of Da Nang, during October 1968. Displayed slides purportedly showing Vietnamese National Field Police interrogating a prisoner using torture. Hale claimed he also used torture to interrogate enemy prisoners, and alleged that an enemy combatant died as result of the use of CS (tear) gas in a tunnel.
> Note: A memo dated 21 April 1971 from Col. Tufts (head of CID) to CoS, U.S. Army, stated that Hale's complaint was under investigation. No other CID documents available to date refer to his allegations.
> 
> 11. Kruch, Robert, 25, Pfc. (E-3), Co. A, 3/21, 196 LIB, Americal Division. Appeared on "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Talks about poor leadership and maltreatment of U.S. troops by commanders. Says his company refused "to go back out" at one point. No war crimes allegations.12. Light, William, 22 (E-3), "E" Co., 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (May 1968 to June 1969). Appeared at "Third World Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalized remarks about racism. No war crimes allegations. Received a General Discharge.13. McSheffrey, Ron, 6/31 9th Infantry Division (1969-1970). Appeared on "What Are We Doing To Ourselves Panel" at WSI, erroneously listed as "Dr." McSheffrey.Summary of WSI allegations: Tells of his drug addiction in Vietnam. No war crimes allegations. Received a "212 discharge" - namely, "honorable wartime service subsequent to desertion."14. Moore, Scott, 26, 1st Lt., 2/39th, 9th Infantry Division (1968 to 1969). Appeared on the "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Generalized complaints. No war crimes allegations."15. Murphy, Ed, 23, Sgt. (E-5), 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division (October 1967 to September 1968). Appeared on "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony consists of one paragraph of generalized remarks affirming the testimony of others.
> Note: A memo dated 21 April 1971 from Col. Tufts (head of CID) to CoS, U.S. Army, stated that Murphy's complaint was under investigation. No other CID documents available to date refer to his allegations.
> 
> 16. Newton, Ron, 24, Pfc. (E-3), 3rd Brigade, HHQ Co., 704 Maintenance Bn., 4th Infantry Division (July 1966 to June 1967). Appeared on "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complains about Army training, poor medical care and alleged racism towards Vietnamese. No war crimes allegations."17. Novick, Wayne, 22, SP/4, 1st En., 26th Inf., 1st Inf. Division (February 1969 to February 1970). Moderator of the "1st, 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Asked questions of witnesses. No independent war crimes allegations.18. Pitkin, Steve, 20, SP/4, "C" Co., 2/239, 9th Infantry Division (May 1969 to July 1969). Appeared on "Miscellaneous Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Said that he would "...testify about the beating of civilians and enemy personnel, destruction of villages, indiscriminate use of artillery, the general racism and the attitude of the American GI toward the Vietnamese." This was followed by generalized complaining about the military. No specific war crimes allegations.
> Note: Pitkin publicly recanted his participation in WSI in 2004, saying in a signed affidavit that he had been pressured to present false testimony about war crimes in Vietnam by other VVAW members, including John Kerry.
> 
> 19. Primm, Alex, 26, SP/4 (E-4), Public Information Office, 1st Logistics Command, Headquarters (September 1968 to June 1969). Appeared on "25th Infantry Division and Public Information Office Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complained about military and other news reporting. No war crimes allegations.20. Romo, Barry, 23, 1st Lt., "A" Co., 2/1, 196 LIB, "C" Co., 3/4, 11th Inf. Brigade, Americal Division (June 1967 to November 1968). Moderator of the "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Mostly generalizations about racism toward Latinos. He is Chicano and became a commissioned officer at age 19. No war crimes allegations.21. Shibla, Vernon, 27, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967). Appeared on "25th Infantry Division and Public Information Office Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complained about Army Public Information policies of censorship. No war crimes allegations.22. Umenhofer, James, SP/4 (E-4), 2/501, 101st Airborne Division (November 1969 to October 1970). Appeared on the "82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and 173rd Airborne Brigade Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Mostly generalizations. One allegation of racially motivated fragging.23. Williams, Donald P. Did not serve in Vietnam. Claimed 8 years active duty service, units not revealed. Said he deserted to Sweden after his unit was deployed to Saigon in March 1968. Appeared on "Third World Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Complained of racism. Falsely claimed that "...statistics say that blacks constitute only ten percent of the total population in the United States, yet they represent at least forty percent of the fighting forces in Vietnam." Proposed smoking grass as an antidote to racism.24. Wingrodski, Curtis, 22, SP/4, 59th Scout Dog, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (March 1969 to October 1969). Appeared on the "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony is brief, lacking any content. No war crimes allegations.25. Wright, Doug, SP/4, 1/6, 198 LIB, Americal Division. Appeared on "Americal Division Panel" at WSI.Summary of WSI allegations: Testimony is brief, lacking any content. "And these things go on..." "Here I am, you know." No war crimes allegations.
> Thanks to John Boyle for making these reports available and providing summary information.
> 
> Last Updated Tuesday, March 04 2008 @ 03:37 PM EST; 69,495 Hits
Click to expand...

Shocking!!! The military investigated itself over war crime allegations and found out no war crimes occurred in Vietnam by any US troops. Even in the case of soldiers, confessing crimes. The military said they didn't do nothin' wrong.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_First things first.

You said Kerry's Purple Hearts were unearned because [at least some of] his injuries did not involve enemy action.

I posted the events leading up to each of those medals. I'm still waiting for you to point out which ones were not inflicted during enemy action._
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*JOHN KERRY'S 'SELF-INFLICTED'*
*PURPLE HEART, BRONZE STAR*
*Vietnam Swift Boat vets reveal new details of charges against presidential candidate*
John Kerry’s ‘self-inflicted’ Purple Heart, Bronze Star

Published: 08/10/2004 at 1:00 AM

image: http://www.wnd.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-print/images/printer_famfamfam.gif

60-second commercial opposing John Kerry for president, the Swift Boat Vets for Truth reveal new details of their politically sizzling charges against the candidate who made his war experience the cornerstone of his convention acceptance speech.

Attempting to bolster their accusations that Kerry misrepresented slight injuries to win Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, the vets cite a March 13, 1969, incident for which the young lieutenant was decorated.



Two injuries – a small bruise on his right arm and a minor injury to his buttocks – won Kerry his Third Purple Heart and a trip home. However, the vets say, the wound to his buttocks was self-inflicted and should never have received Purple Heart consideration.

While Kerry claims the injury came from shrapnel from an underwater mine, Larry Thurlow, an officer on shore with Kerry that day, insists the wound was the result of Kerry’s decision to throw a concussion grenade into a rice pile. The “shrapnel,” he says, was actually rice pellets.

As further evidence, the vets say, Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks’ wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache.

Sworn statements of those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.

“The conclusion is inescapable: that Kerry lied by reporting to the Navy that he had been wounded by shrapnel in his backside from an enemy mine when in reality he negligently wounded himself and then lied about the wound in order to secure a third Purple Heart and a quick trip home,” reads the letter.

The letter continues: “Kerry’s operating report, Bronze Star story, and subsequent ‘no man left behind’ story are a total hoax on the Navy and the nation,” they say.

As to the daring rescue discussed in the documentary video shown to the nation at the Democratic convention, the vets say the rescue was well under way under the leadership of others when Kerry returned to the scene where Special Forces soldier Jim Rassman was plucked out of the water. Eyewitnesses have signed affidavits explaining when Kerry returned, there was no more hostile fire. He just merely leaned over the boat and assisted Rassman out of the water.

“Kerry’s account of this action, which was used to secure the Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart, is an extraordinary example of fraud,” they say.

The letter also recounts the incident that occurred Dec. 2, 1968, that led to Kerry receiving his first Purple Heart.

Once again, the vets insist there was no hostile fire involved, and, again, they say, Kerry’s very minor wound was self-inflicted.

According to the vets’ account, Kerry, Navy Lt. William Schachte, and an enlisted man were on a whaler.

“Seeing movement from an unknown source, the sailors opened fire on the movement,” the letter says. “There was no hostile fire. When Kerry’s rifle jammed, he picked up an M-79 grenade launcher and fired a grenade at a nearby object. This sprayed the boat with shrapnel from Kerry’s own grenade, a tiny piece of which embedded in Kerry’s arm.”

Upon examining Kerry’s injury, Dr. Lewis Letson says he asked Kerry why he was there.

Kerry reportedly told him he had been wounded by hostile fire. Letson removed the tiny fragment with tweezers and placed a Band-Aid over the scratch.

The next morning, Kerry went to see Division Commander Grant Hibbard to ask for the Purple Heart. Hibbard had already spoken to Schachte and conducted an investigation. Hibbard’s investigation revealed that Kerry’s “rose thorn” scratch had been self-inflicted in the absence of hostile fire. Hibbard denied the award.

Some three months later, Kerry managed to obtain his first Purple Heart from an officer with no connection to Coastal Division 14 or knowledge of the Dec. 2, 1968, event, they say.

“All normal documentation supporting a Purple Heart is missing,” the letter says. “There is absolutely no casualty report (i.e., spot report) or hostile fire report or after-action report in the Navy’s files to support this ‘Purple Heart’ because there was no casualty, hostile fire, or action on which to report. The sole document relied upon by Kerry is a record showing the band aid and tweezers treatment by Dr. Letson recorded by deceased corpsman, Jess Carreon.

“There are no witnesses who claim to have seen hostile fire – necessary for a Purple Heart (even a rose thorn Purple Heart) – that day. At least three witnesses, Dr. Letson (who spoke to the participants and removed the M-79 fragment), Lt. Bill Schachte (on the boat), and Cmdr. Grant Hibbard (whose investigation revealed Kerry’s application for a Purple Heart to be fraudulent), are able to testify directly or based upon contemporaneous investigation that Kerry’s first Purple Heart was a fraud,” says the letter.

Swift Boat Vets for Truth claims a membership of 254 sailors from Coastal Squadron One, ranging from vice admirals to seamen. They claim 16 of the 23 surviving officers who served with Kerry in swift boats in Vietnam and who could be found have joined.


Read more at John Kerry’s ‘self-inflicted’ Purple Heart, Bronze Star


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> _His intentions are irrelevant. Reach for a gun while law enforcement is arresting you and there's a very good chance that will be the last thing you ever reach for._
> 
> But it's OK to assume he was reaching for a gun?
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They shouldn't. Just like that cop in Chicago was right to assume that dude with a kifife was going to cut everyone up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with what happened in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it does. It's all about perspective.
> 
> This event is exposing Liberal bullshit.  We don't hear y'all crying law enforcement being militarized, now. Do we?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit. There's only one question that needs to be answered -- was the FBI justified in shooting Finicum. Nothing in Chicago answers that
> 
> The FBI pulled over a car full of self-proclaimed militia after they trespassed on public property for 4 weeks. The FBI was informed they were armed, which they were. After trying to escape the FBI, one of them gets out, runs for the forest with his hands up -- and then reaches for his gun.
> 
> Justified shooting.
> 
> Nothing in Chicago affects that or has any influence on it.
Click to expand...

 


hazlnut said:


> FBI took care of business.
> 
> Good job.
> 
> Terrorists go to ground.


 
The terrorists are people like you..and in this case, the pigs who ambushed a group of people traveling to a peaceful meeting, where people were waiting to hear what they had to say.

The FBI and Harney county officials don't want people to know what's going on. The Sheriff of Grant County had and has no intention of inviting the feds into his county to do more damage than they already have, and he will go to the ground defending his constituents from them.

The terrorists are the feds, hazelnut, faun, and the rest who are fine with the ambush and assassination of an unarmed man.


----------



## Camp

9thIDdoc said:


> _First things first.
> 
> You said Kerry's Purple Hearts were unearned because [at least some of] his injuries did not involve enemy action.
> 
> I posted the events leading up to each of those medals. I'm still waiting for you to point out which ones were not inflicted during enemy action._
> *---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
> *JOHN KERRY'S 'SELF-INFLICTED'*
> *PURPLE HEART, BRONZE STAR*
> *Vietnam Swift Boat vets reveal new details of charges against presidential candidate*
> John Kerry’s ‘self-inflicted’ Purple Heart, Bronze Star
> 
> Published: 08/10/2004 at 1:00 AM
> 
> image: http://www.wnd.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-print/images/printer_famfamfam.gif
> 60-second commercial opposing John Kerry for president, the Swift Boat Vets for Truth reveal new details of their politically sizzling charges against the candidate who made his war experience the cornerstone of his convention acceptance speech.
> 
> Attempting to bolster their accusations that Kerry misrepresented slight injuries to win Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, the vets cite a March 13, 1969, incident for which the young lieutenant was decorated.
> 
> 
> 
> Two injuries – a small bruise on his right arm and a minor injury to his buttocks – won Kerry his Third Purple Heart and a trip home. However, the vets say, the wound to his buttocks was self-inflicted and should never have received Purple Heart consideration.
> 
> While Kerry claims the injury came from shrapnel from an underwater mine, Larry Thurlow, an officer on shore with Kerry that day, insists the wound was the result of Kerry’s decision to throw a concussion grenade into a rice pile. The “shrapnel,” he says, was actually rice pellets.
> 
> As further evidence, the vets say, Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks’ wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache.
> 
> Sworn statements of those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.
> 
> “The conclusion is inescapable: that Kerry lied by reporting to the Navy that he had been wounded by shrapnel in his backside from an enemy mine when in reality he negligently wounded himself and then lied about the wound in order to secure a third Purple Heart and a quick trip home,” reads the letter.
> 
> The letter continues: “Kerry’s operating report, Bronze Star story, and subsequent ‘no man left behind’ story are a total hoax on the Navy and the nation,” they say.
> 
> As to the daring rescue discussed in the documentary video shown to the nation at the Democratic convention, the vets say the rescue was well under way under the leadership of others when Kerry returned to the scene where Special Forces soldier Jim Rassman was plucked out of the water. Eyewitnesses have signed affidavits explaining when Kerry returned, there was no more hostile fire. He just merely leaned over the boat and assisted Rassman out of the water.
> 
> “Kerry’s account of this action, which was used to secure the Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart, is an extraordinary example of fraud,” they say.
> 
> The letter also recounts the incident that occurred Dec. 2, 1968, that led to Kerry receiving his first Purple Heart.
> 
> Once again, the vets insist there was no hostile fire involved, and, again, they say, Kerry’s very minor wound was self-inflicted.
> 
> According to the vets’ account, Kerry, Navy Lt. William Schachte, and an enlisted man were on a whaler.
> 
> “Seeing movement from an unknown source, the sailors opened fire on the movement,” the letter says. “There was no hostile fire. When Kerry’s rifle jammed, he picked up an M-79 grenade launcher and fired a grenade at a nearby object. This sprayed the boat with shrapnel from Kerry’s own grenade, a tiny piece of which embedded in Kerry’s arm.”
> 
> Upon examining Kerry’s injury, Dr. Lewis Letson says he asked Kerry why he was there.
> 
> Kerry reportedly told him he had been wounded by hostile fire. Letson removed the tiny fragment with tweezers and placed a Band-Aid over the scratch.
> 
> The next morning, Kerry went to see Division Commander Grant Hibbard to ask for the Purple Heart. Hibbard had already spoken to Schachte and conducted an investigation. Hibbard’s investigation revealed that Kerry’s “rose thorn” scratch had been self-inflicted in the absence of hostile fire. Hibbard denied the award.
> 
> Some three months later, Kerry managed to obtain his first Purple Heart from an officer with no connection to Coastal Division 14 or knowledge of the Dec. 2, 1968, event, they say.
> 
> “All normal documentation supporting a Purple Heart is missing,” the letter says. “There is absolutely no casualty report (i.e., spot report) or hostile fire report or after-action report in the Navy’s files to support this ‘Purple Heart’ because there was no casualty, hostile fire, or action on which to report. The sole document relied upon by Kerry is a record showing the band aid and tweezers treatment by Dr. Letson recorded by deceased corpsman, Jess Carreon.
> 
> “There are no witnesses who claim to have seen hostile fire – necessary for a Purple Heart (even a rose thorn Purple Heart) – that day. At least three witnesses, Dr. Letson (who spoke to the participants and removed the M-79 fragment), Lt. Bill Schachte (on the boat), and Cmdr. Grant Hibbard (whose investigation revealed Kerry’s application for a Purple Heart to be fraudulent), are able to testify directly or based upon contemporaneous investigation that Kerry’s first Purple Heart was a fraud,” says the letter.
> 
> Swift Boat Vets for Truth claims a membership of 254 sailors from Coastal Squadron One, ranging from vice admirals to seamen. They claim 16 of the 23 surviving officers who served with Kerry in swift boats in Vietnam and who could be found have joined.
> 
> 
> Read more at John Kerry’s ‘self-inflicted’ Purple Heart, Bronze Star


You seem determined to hijack and kill the thread with the totally irrelevant John Kerry Vietnam debate, even if you have to use garbage that was debunked over a decade ago.
None of what you are posting is remotely related to the assholes in Oregon, but it is all the assholes defending the assholes have left.


----------



## Staidhup

I find it interesting in that the video produced and eyewitness account repudiates justification for the shooting. On the other hand I see those of the liberal persuasion applauding the shooting. Ironically if the victim was black their would be cries of murder, profiling, and chants proclaiming black lives mater. The key question that remains unanswered is documentation as to what was said by the officers and what was said by the victim, and if in fact he was shot in the back.


----------



## koshergrl

Staidhup said:


> I find it interesting in that the video produced and eyewitness account repudiates justification for the shooting. On the other hand I see those of the liberal persuasion applauding the shooting. Ironically if the victim was black their would be cries of murder, profiling, and chants proclaiming black lives mater. The key question that remains unanswered is documentation as to what was said by the officers and what was said by the victim, and if in fact he was shot in the back.


 Progressives like criminals. Whether they're black criminals throwing rocks and beating people up or feds violating the constitution and killing old men. That's what they like, and they're always going to defend and support it. In their eyes, the bad guys are the ones who defend themselves or stand up for things like honor, integrity, and freedom.


----------



## Old Rocks

And in spite of all the loopy flap yap here, Finicum will always be remembered as the dumb bastard that tried to draw a gun when he was surrounded by Oregon State Police. He is dead that the world is a better place for that fact.


----------



## Old Rocks

9thIDdoc said:


> _First things first.
> 
> You said Kerry's Purple Hearts were unearned because [at least some of] his injuries did not involve enemy action.
> 
> I posted the events leading up to each of those medals. I'm still waiting for you to point out which ones were not inflicted during enemy action._
> *---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
> *JOHN KERRY'S 'SELF-INFLICTED'*
> *PURPLE HEART, BRONZE STAR*
> *Vietnam Swift Boat vets reveal new details of charges against presidential candidate*
> John Kerry’s ‘self-inflicted’ Purple Heart, Bronze Star
> 
> Published: 08/10/2004 at 1:00 AM
> 
> image: http://www.wnd.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-print/images/printer_famfamfam.gif
> 60-second commercial opposing John Kerry for president, the Swift Boat Vets for Truth reveal new details of their politically sizzling charges against the candidate who made his war experience the cornerstone of his convention acceptance speech.
> 
> Attempting to bolster their accusations that Kerry misrepresented slight injuries to win Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, the vets cite a March 13, 1969, incident for which the young lieutenant was decorated.
> 
> 
> 
> Two injuries – a small bruise on his right arm and a minor injury to his buttocks – won Kerry his Third Purple Heart and a trip home. However, the vets say, the wound to his buttocks was self-inflicted and should never have received Purple Heart consideration.
> 
> While Kerry claims the injury came from shrapnel from an underwater mine, Larry Thurlow, an officer on shore with Kerry that day, insists the wound was the result of Kerry’s decision to throw a concussion grenade into a rice pile. The “shrapnel,” he says, was actually rice pellets.
> 
> As further evidence, the vets say, Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks’ wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache.
> 
> Sworn statements of those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.
> 
> “The conclusion is inescapable: that Kerry lied by reporting to the Navy that he had been wounded by shrapnel in his backside from an enemy mine when in reality he negligently wounded himself and then lied about the wound in order to secure a third Purple Heart and a quick trip home,” reads the letter.
> 
> The letter continues: “Kerry’s operating report, Bronze Star story, and subsequent ‘no man left behind’ story are a total hoax on the Navy and the nation,” they say.
> 
> As to the daring rescue discussed in the documentary video shown to the nation at the Democratic convention, the vets say the rescue was well under way under the leadership of others when Kerry returned to the scene where Special Forces soldier Jim Rassman was plucked out of the water. Eyewitnesses have signed affidavits explaining when Kerry returned, there was no more hostile fire. He just merely leaned over the boat and assisted Rassman out of the water.
> 
> “Kerry’s account of this action, which was used to secure the Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart, is an extraordinary example of fraud,” they say.
> 
> The letter also recounts the incident that occurred Dec. 2, 1968, that led to Kerry receiving his first Purple Heart.
> 
> Once again, the vets insist there was no hostile fire involved, and, again, they say, Kerry’s very minor wound was self-inflicted.
> 
> According to the vets’ account, Kerry, Navy Lt. William Schachte, and an enlisted man were on a whaler.
> 
> “Seeing movement from an unknown source, the sailors opened fire on the movement,” the letter says. “There was no hostile fire. When Kerry’s rifle jammed, he picked up an M-79 grenade launcher and fired a grenade at a nearby object. This sprayed the boat with shrapnel from Kerry’s own grenade, a tiny piece of which embedded in Kerry’s arm.”
> 
> Upon examining Kerry’s injury, Dr. Lewis Letson says he asked Kerry why he was there.
> 
> Kerry reportedly told him he had been wounded by hostile fire. Letson removed the tiny fragment with tweezers and placed a Band-Aid over the scratch.
> 
> The next morning, Kerry went to see Division Commander Grant Hibbard to ask for the Purple Heart. Hibbard had already spoken to Schachte and conducted an investigation. Hibbard’s investigation revealed that Kerry’s “rose thorn” scratch had been self-inflicted in the absence of hostile fire. Hibbard denied the award.
> 
> Some three months later, Kerry managed to obtain his first Purple Heart from an officer with no connection to Coastal Division 14 or knowledge of the Dec. 2, 1968, event, they say.
> 
> “All normal documentation supporting a Purple Heart is missing,” the letter says. “There is absolutely no casualty report (i.e., spot report) or hostile fire report or after-action report in the Navy’s files to support this ‘Purple Heart’ because there was no casualty, hostile fire, or action on which to report. The sole document relied upon by Kerry is a record showing the band aid and tweezers treatment by Dr. Letson recorded by deceased corpsman, Jess Carreon.
> 
> “There are no witnesses who claim to have seen hostile fire – necessary for a Purple Heart (even a rose thorn Purple Heart) – that day. At least three witnesses, Dr. Letson (who spoke to the participants and removed the M-79 fragment), Lt. Bill Schachte (on the boat), and Cmdr. Grant Hibbard (whose investigation revealed Kerry’s application for a Purple Heart to be fraudulent), are able to testify directly or based upon contemporaneous investigation that Kerry’s first Purple Heart was a fraud,” says the letter.
> 
> Swift Boat Vets for Truth claims a membership of 254 sailors from Coastal Squadron One, ranging from vice admirals to seamen. They claim 16 of the 23 surviving officers who served with Kerry in swift boats in Vietnam and who could be found have joined.
> 
> 
> Read more at John Kerry’s ‘self-inflicted’ Purple Heart, Bronze Star


Dumb fuck, this is about the felons apprehended in Oregon.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> _First things first.
> 
> You said Kerry's Purple Hearts were unearned because [at least some of] his injuries did not involve enemy action.
> 
> I posted the events leading up to each of those medals. I'm still waiting for you to point out which ones were not inflicted during enemy action._
> *---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
> *JOHN KERRY'S 'SELF-INFLICTED'*
> *PURPLE HEART, BRONZE STAR*
> *Vietnam Swift Boat vets reveal new details of charges against presidential candidate*
> John Kerry’s ‘self-inflicted’ Purple Heart, Bronze Star
> 
> Published: 08/10/2004 at 1:00 AM
> 
> image: http://www.wnd.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-print/images/printer_famfamfam.gif
> 60-second commercial opposing John Kerry for president, the Swift Boat Vets for Truth reveal new details of their politically sizzling charges against the candidate who made his war experience the cornerstone of his convention acceptance speech.
> 
> Attempting to bolster their accusations that Kerry misrepresented slight injuries to win Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, the vets cite a March 13, 1969, incident for which the young lieutenant was decorated.
> 
> 
> 
> Two injuries – a small bruise on his right arm and a minor injury to his buttocks – won Kerry his Third Purple Heart and a trip home. However, the vets say, the wound to his buttocks was self-inflicted and should never have received Purple Heart consideration.
> 
> While Kerry claims the injury came from shrapnel from an underwater mine, Larry Thurlow, an officer on shore with Kerry that day, insists the wound was the result of Kerry’s decision to throw a concussion grenade into a rice pile. The “shrapnel,” he says, was actually rice pellets.
> 
> As further evidence, the vets say, Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks’ wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache.
> 
> Sworn statements of those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.
> 
> “The conclusion is inescapable: that Kerry lied by reporting to the Navy that he had been wounded by shrapnel in his backside from an enemy mine when in reality he negligently wounded himself and then lied about the wound in order to secure a third Purple Heart and a quick trip home,” reads the letter.
> 
> The letter continues: “Kerry’s operating report, Bronze Star story, and subsequent ‘no man left behind’ story are a total hoax on the Navy and the nation,” they say.
> 
> As to the daring rescue discussed in the documentary video shown to the nation at the Democratic convention, the vets say the rescue was well under way under the leadership of others when Kerry returned to the scene where Special Forces soldier Jim Rassman was plucked out of the water. Eyewitnesses have signed affidavits explaining when Kerry returned, there was no more hostile fire. He just merely leaned over the boat and assisted Rassman out of the water.
> 
> “Kerry’s account of this action, which was used to secure the Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart, is an extraordinary example of fraud,” they say.
> 
> The letter also recounts the incident that occurred Dec. 2, 1968, that led to Kerry receiving his first Purple Heart.
> 
> Once again, the vets insist there was no hostile fire involved, and, again, they say, Kerry’s very minor wound was self-inflicted.
> 
> According to the vets’ account, Kerry, Navy Lt. William Schachte, and an enlisted man were on a whaler.
> 
> “Seeing movement from an unknown source, the sailors opened fire on the movement,” the letter says. “There was no hostile fire. When Kerry’s rifle jammed, he picked up an M-79 grenade launcher and fired a grenade at a nearby object. This sprayed the boat with shrapnel from Kerry’s own grenade, a tiny piece of which embedded in Kerry’s arm.”
> 
> Upon examining Kerry’s injury, Dr. Lewis Letson says he asked Kerry why he was there.
> 
> Kerry reportedly told him he had been wounded by hostile fire. Letson removed the tiny fragment with tweezers and placed a Band-Aid over the scratch.
> 
> The next morning, Kerry went to see Division Commander Grant Hibbard to ask for the Purple Heart. Hibbard had already spoken to Schachte and conducted an investigation. Hibbard’s investigation revealed that Kerry’s “rose thorn” scratch had been self-inflicted in the absence of hostile fire. Hibbard denied the award.
> 
> Some three months later, Kerry managed to obtain his first Purple Heart from an officer with no connection to Coastal Division 14 or knowledge of the Dec. 2, 1968, event, they say.
> 
> “All normal documentation supporting a Purple Heart is missing,” the letter says. “There is absolutely no casualty report (i.e., spot report) or hostile fire report or after-action report in the Navy’s files to support this ‘Purple Heart’ because there was no casualty, hostile fire, or action on which to report. The sole document relied upon by Kerry is a record showing the band aid and tweezers treatment by Dr. Letson recorded by deceased corpsman, Jess Carreon.
> 
> “There are no witnesses who claim to have seen hostile fire – necessary for a Purple Heart (even a rose thorn Purple Heart) – that day. At least three witnesses, Dr. Letson (who spoke to the participants and removed the M-79 fragment), Lt. Bill Schachte (on the boat), and Cmdr. Grant Hibbard (whose investigation revealed Kerry’s application for a Purple Heart to be fraudulent), are able to testify directly or based upon contemporaneous investigation that Kerry’s first Purple Heart was a fraud,” says the letter.
> 
> Swift Boat Vets for Truth claims a membership of 254 sailors from Coastal Squadron One, ranging from vice admirals to seamen. They claim 16 of the 23 surviving officers who served with Kerry in swift boats in Vietnam and who could be found have joined.
> 
> 
> Read more at John Kerry’s ‘self-inflicted’ Purple Heart, Bronze Star


Lol....lol....lol


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They shouldn't. Just like that cop in Chicago was right to assume that dude with a kifife was going to cut everyone up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with what happened in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it does. It's all about perspective.
> 
> This event is exposing Liberal bullshit.  We don't hear y'all crying law enforcement being militarized, now. Do we?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit. There's only one question that needs to be answered -- was the FBI justified in shooting Finicum. Nothing in Chicago answers that
> 
> The FBI pulled over a car full of self-proclaimed militia after they trespassed on public property for 4 weeks. The FBI was informed they were armed, which they were. After trying to escape the FBI, one of them gets out, runs for the forest with his hands up -- and then reaches for his gun.
> 
> Justified shooting.
> 
> Nothing in Chicago affects that or has any influence on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hazlnut said:
> 
> 
> 
> FBI took care of business.
> 
> Good job.
> 
> Terrorists go to ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The terrorists are people like you..and in this case, the pigs who ambushed a group of people traveling to a peaceful meeting, where people were waiting to hear what they had to say.
> 
> The FBI and Harney county officials don't want people to know what's going on. The Sheriff of Grant County had and has no intention of inviting the feds into his county to do more damage than they already have, and he will go to the ground defending his constituents from them.
> 
> The terrorists are the feds, hazelnut, faun, and the rest who are fine with the ambush and assassination of an unarmed man.
Click to expand...

You've been debunked, Allie.....


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Skylar

Old Rocks said:


> And in spite of all the loopy flap yap here, Finicum will always be remembered as the dumb bastard that tried to draw a gun when he was surrounded by Oregon State Police. He is dead that the world is a better place for that fact.



Seriously. That moron was bound to hurt someone sooner or later. Thankfully, the only person he hurt was himself. My sympathies to the Trooper who had to play the role of 'cop' in Lavoy's 'Suicide by Cop' nonsense.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No deer rifle. No weapon at all. Hands in the air. No returned fire, no resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KG, you really do watch way too much violent fiction on TV. I'm surprised that you did not identify Dirty Hairy pulling the trigger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, someone stated there was an eyewitness saying he had a deer rifle and reaching for it. It's the reason for the post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't hide a deer rifle in your pocket, lol.
Click to expand...


But you can hide a 9 mm pistol. Which is what they found in the pocket that Lavoy was reaching for.

The deluded idiot was about to try and shoot a State Trooper. If it had to be the Trooper or Lavoy, then I'd prefer its Lavoy that achieved room temperature.

See, Kosh....you can imagine the law to be whatever you want. But as Ammon in a concrete box and Lavoy in a wooden one demonstrates, the meaningless pseudo-legal gibberish you tell yourself means jack shit.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> And in spite of all the loopy flap yap here, Finicum will always be remembered as the dumb bastard that tried to draw a gun when he was surrounded by Oregon State Police. He is dead that the world is a better place for that fact.


 There are a lot of people about whom that would be true. A half dozen of them posting in this thread. This guy posed no threat to anybody, though he obviously tore a hole in old fags masculinity. 

He wasnt grabbing for a gun and didnt have one on him.


----------



## Old Rocks

Now silly little bitch, you are pulling more lies out of that ample ass. There were a bunch of OSP as well as FBI there. And I bet that Sheriff Palmer knew that there would be an ambush when he set up the meeting. Perhaps even planned the meeting with the FBI.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And in spite of all the loopy flap yap here, Finicum will always be remembered as the dumb bastard that tried to draw a gun when he was surrounded by Oregon State Police. He is dead that the world is a better place for that fact.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of people about whom that would be true. A half dozen of them posting in this thread. This guy posed no threat to anybody, though he obviously tore a hole in old fags masculinity.
Click to expand...


He was reaching for a gun in his pocket. This after running a police blockade, resisting arrest, and leading the cops on a high speed chase. This situation will likely go down as a text book justifiable shooting, taught in police academies across the nation. 

You're only demonstrating how utterly delusional you and your militia ilk is. And why your perspective in general isn't credible. 



> He wasnt grabbing for a gun and didnt have one on him.



Says you, pretending you know what the fuck you're talking about. Alas, reality isn't bound to whatever comforting lies you tell yourself. They found a gun in the very pocket he was reaching for. And a State Trooper is *far* more credible than you playing pretend.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Now silly little bitch, you are pulling more lies out of that ample ass. There were a bunch of OSP as well as FBI there. And I bet that Sheriff Palmer knew that there would be an ambush when he set up the meeting. Perhaps even planned the meeting with the FBI.


So you agree it was an ambush and the intent was to kill them. Common ground at last.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now silly little bitch, you are pulling more lies out of that ample ass. There were a bunch of OSP as well as FBI there. And I bet that Sheriff Palmer knew that there would be an ambush when he set up the meeting. Perhaps even planned the meeting with the FBI.
> 
> 
> 
> So you agree it was an ambush and the intent was to kill them. Common ground at last.
Click to expand...


Nope. More of your batshit delusion. They spent 7 minutes telling him to get out of his car. Ammon, and the rest of the Miltia idiots in the other vehicle did as instructed, were arrested per the warrants issued, and are fine. Lavoy refused to surrender to the police, drove off at high speed, lead the cops on a chase, ran a blockade, resisted arrest and reached for a gun.

*And was shot by a State Trooper. As he should have been. *There is absolutely nothing that the FBI or the State Troopers should have changed about their actions. This is all on the criminal Lavoy.

You're fucked, Kosh. As all you're doing is discrediting the militia morons even further by forwarding a demonstrably false narrative. As you're proving that your ilk are liars that can't be trusted. As the video and gun found on his body demonstrate.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now silly little bitch, you are pulling more lies out of that ample ass. There were a bunch of OSP as well as FBI there. And I bet that Sheriff Palmer knew that there would be an ambush when he set up the meeting. Perhaps even planned the meeting with the FBI.
> 
> 
> 
> So you agree it was an ambush and the intent was to kill them. Common ground at last.
Click to expand...

Dumb little bitch, dealing with felons, you do not challenge them to a duel in the street, you catch them off guard, and arrest them with as little violence as possible. Sure it was an ambush. And a successful one. Only one death, and that was really suicide by cop. And it was set up by Palmer of Grant County. Thank You, Sheriff Palmer.


----------



## Vandalshandle

koshergrl said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No deer rifle. No weapon at all. Hands in the air. No returned fire, no resistance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KG, you really do watch way too much violent fiction on TV. I'm surprised that you did not identify Dirty Hairy pulling the trigger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, someone stated there was an eyewitness saying he had a deer rifle and reaching for it. It's the reason for the post
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't hide a deer rifle in your pocket, lol.
Click to expand...

You are still obsessed with that? I was saying that when the FBI rolls in armored vehicles, which they have, it is time for the militia in the refuge drop their deer rifles and come out peacefully.


----------



## koshergrl

hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building? 

Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.


----------



## Vandalshandle

I have not read today's news, but last time I looked, there were four more martyrs-in-waiting. Hopefully, they won't have long to wait.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?



Oh, Koshy. Bundy was just denied bail and 3 more militia morons were arrested. There are a grand total of 4 now left on the refuge, begging the FBI to just let them go home with no charges.

Alas, they're subject to the ACTUAL law, not the hapless pseudo-legal horseshit that you make up. Remember when you told us (and no, I'm not joking folks, she actually said this), that the Federal government didn't have jurisdicition on Federal lands? I do.

_How'd that work out for you?_

Oh, and the charges? Here's the criminal complaint:

Read The DOJ's Criminal Complaint Against Ammon Bundy And Co.

Make up whatever pseudo-legal gibberish you'd like. It won't make any difference. As your imagination isn't what these men and women are being held to. The law is.


----------



## Skylar

Vandalshandle said:


> I have not read today's news, but last time I looked, there were four more martyrs-in-waiting. Hopefully, they won't have long to wait.



The criminal complaint just went public. Including 'I wanna die a free man' Ritzheimer threatening a BLM worker at a safeway and following her home after threatening to burn it down.

There are 4 folks, 3 men and one woman on the refuge. They're begging to be allowed to go home with no charges. That seems....unlikely.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Skylar said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have not read today's news, but last time I looked, there were four more martyrs-in-waiting. Hopefully, they won't have long to wait.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The criminal complaint just went public. Including 'I wanna die a free man' Ritzheimer threatening a BLM worker at a safeway and following her home after threatening to burn it down.
> 
> There are 4 folks, 3 men and one woman on the refuge. They're begging to be allowed to go home with no charges. That seems....unlikely.
Click to expand...


The USA does not bargain with terrorists.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And in spite of all the loopy flap yap here, Finicum will always be remembered as the dumb bastard that tried to draw a gun when he was surrounded by Oregon State Police. He is dead that the world is a better place for that fact.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a lot of people about whom that would be true. A half dozen of them posting in this thread. This guy posed no threat to anybody, though he obviously tore a hole in old fags masculinity.
> 
> He wasnt grabbing for a gun and didnt have one on him.
Click to expand...

Um...no.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.


Black folks get killed for selling single cigarettes....


----------



## 12icer

Maybe you didn't read your own post, but the dead man was not listed on the complaint for a warrant. the date of the complaint would indicate it was never intended to be served before the murder, and the way the stop was setup seems to indicate they failed in their actual mission to kill everyone in the truck, no matter who was in it..


----------



## koshergrl

12icer said:


> Maybe you didn't read your own post, but the dead man was not listed on the complaint for a warrant. the date of the complaint would indicate it was never intended to be served before the murder, and the way the stop was setup seems to indicate they failed in their actual mission to kill everyone in the truck, no matter who was in it..


yup.


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> 12icer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you didn't read your own post, but the dead man was not listed on the complaint for a warrant. the date of the complaint would indicate it was never intended to be served before the murder, and the way the stop was setup seems to indicate they failed in their actual mission to kill everyone in the truck, no matter who was in it..
> 
> 
> 
> yup.
Click to expand...



there is some weird shit with this one 

reminded me of how they took out bonnie and clyde 

having shooters posted off in the woods 

wonder whos drone that was filming


----------



## jon_berzerk

TyroneSlothrop said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> Black folks get killed for selling single cigarettes....
Click to expand...


hands up dont shoot huh


----------



## jon_berzerk

12icer said:


> Maybe you didn't read your own post, but the dead man was not listed on the complaint for a warrant. the date of the complaint would indicate it was never intended to be served before the murder, and the way the stop was setup seems to indicate they failed in their actual mission to kill everyone in the truck, no matter who was in it..



one of the witnesses claims that the feds had been shooting at them before the last stop


----------



## Carla_Danger

Look at what the nasty ass slobs left behind at the Turd Sanctuary, when they ran like little girls!


----------



## Carla_Danger

jon_berzerk said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> Black folks get killed for selling single cigarettes....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot huh
Click to expand...



His hands were down.  It's on video.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Carla_Danger said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> Black folks get killed for selling single cigarettes....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> His hands were down.  It's on video.
Click to expand...


then you did not see the video if you claim that 

or you are lying whichever


----------



## Carla_Danger

jon_berzerk said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> Black folks get killed for selling single cigarettes....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> His hands were down.  It's on video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> then you did not see the video if you claim that
> 
> or you are lying whichever
Click to expand...




It looked to me like he was reaching for his gun in the video.


(CNN)A high-speed getaway attempt and a reach for the waistband are said to have prompted police SWAT team members to open fire on a group of leaders of the Oregon armed occupiers.

A law enforcement official described the dramatic showdown that occurred Tuesday night on a desolate stretch of U.S. 395, some distance away from the federal wildlife refuge where the group took over federal buildings nearly a month ago.

Oregon shooting: Police fire on occupiers at traffic stop - CNN.com


LaVoy said he would not spend a minute in a concrete box, and he got his wish. They had plenty of time to leave the Turd Sanctuary.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Carla_Danger said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> Black folks get killed for selling single cigarettes....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot huh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> His hands were down.  It's on video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> then you did not see the video if you claim that
> 
> or you are lying whichever
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looked to me like he was reaching for his gun in the video.
> 
> 
> (CNN)A high-speed getaway attempt and a reach for the waistband are said to have prompted police SWAT team members to open fire on a group of leaders of the Oregon armed occupiers.
> 
> A law enforcement official described the dramatic showdown that occurred Tuesday night on a desolate stretch of U.S. 395, some distance away from the federal wildlife refuge where the group took over federal buildings nearly a month ago.
> 
> Oregon shooting: Police fire on occupiers at traffic stop - CNN.com
> 
> 
> LaVoy said he would not spend a minute in a concrete box, and he got his wish. They had plenty of time to leave the Turd Sanctuary.
Click to expand...



maybe that is the case 

time will tell 

just wondering where your hands up dont shoot attitude went 

hymmm

since his hands had been indeed had been up


----------



## Vandalshandle

And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that. 

Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums. 

If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.

I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't just throw out Ferguson, Chicago, and Ohio. What a lame argument. It's not really an argument at all, it's just you trying to change the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> He suffers from benghazism. It is a right wing idiot affliction of just popping off something dopey when a thoughtful response is not available.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suffer from the enjoyment of winning daily in here.  I enjoy the shit out of kicking the asses of stupid folk who act like libturds like you.  Losers who love to root for a person responsible for killing four americans in Benghazi.  Losers.  everyone of you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does somebody give you a prize when you tell them you "won" in "here"? See, I was right about the benghazism. You just confirmed you are afflicted with it. Now do as you were told and go take those pills.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why do you think that's how this works?  hmmmm,  anyone voting for Hillary is telling the Benghazi families it was justified.  Ouch, my what a bunch of pigs those voters would be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Useless blabber.
Click to expand...

I know, when is something relevant coming from you?


----------



## jc456

Vandalshandle said:


> And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that.
> 
> Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums.
> 
> If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.
> 
> I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.


What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yep just like any other threat induced killing in the US.  color of skin meaningless. Let's all move to that threat level ok?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lay off the smack, it's fucking with your brain. The other cop shootings have absolutely nothing to do with this one. Whether the others were justifiable or not has no bearing on the justification of this shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it does sherlock.  It's what you don't understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pouts the idiot who admitted he needs help understanding English.
Click to expand...

I love your make believe. You still playing with your Barbies?


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that.
> 
> Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums.
> 
> If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.
> 
> I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol
Click to expand...



It's funny that you can't defend these creeps on their own merit, you have change the subject to Ferguson. Anyone who got caught vandalizing was arrested and charged with that crime.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that.
> 
> Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums.
> 
> If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.
> 
> I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny that you can't defend these creeps on their own merit, you have change the subject to Ferguson. Anyone who got caught vandalizing was arrested and charged with that crime.
Click to expand...

I don't care about them you fk.  I care that all of you hypocrites can't bash them enough for what staying in a refuge. Ewwww those mean old men. They threatened absolutely no one. And then got killed with their hands up. And you called that justified. Yet the criminal in Ferguson you feel sorry for. Well, that is just hypocritical. Just like you fks!


----------



## Vandalshandle

jc456 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that.
> 
> Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums.
> 
> If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.
> 
> I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol
Click to expand...


Don't know. Why not start a thread about it. Then, it would actually be relevant!


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## Vandalshandle

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that.
> 
> Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums.
> 
> If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.
> 
> I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny that you can't defend these creeps on their own merit, you have change the subject to Ferguson. Anyone who got caught vandalizing was arrested and charged with that crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about them you fk.  I care that all of you hypocrites can't bash them enough for what staying in a refuge. Ewwww those mean old men. They threatened absolutely no one. And then got killed with their hands up. And you called that justified. Yet the criminal in Ferguson you feel sorry for. Well, that is just hypocritical. Just like you fks!
Click to expand...


Ok. I understand. You would prefer to post about Ferguson. If that does not work, you prefer to post about US! That's pretty interesting, because I have never said a word about Ferguson on this entire board.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Folks strap on weapons ...then they storm Federal Property saying they are going to stay years and years and that they will "defend themselves " if anyone tries to stop them.... they do this for well over three weeks...finally they get arrested and one, a single one gets killed , a man who had vowed to not be caught alive *....and you whine ?    .............  this is what happens when you act out crazy ...........*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## 12icer

Some people are JUST stupid, the Nasty ass slobs, Just what will your house look like when you live like these people did for the length of time they did? Much worse I'll Bet, because most arrogant, ignorant liberal's cant get out of their house without a having to be sure it is going to be warm and toasty when they get back, and they go into extreme withdrawal, and have nervous breakdowns when the washer - dryer set doesn't work, they don't have hot water, or their cell phone dies.


----------



## Old Rocks

12icer said:


> Some people are JUST stupid, the Nasty ass slobs, Just what will your house look like when you live like these people did for the length of time they did? Much worse I'll Bet, because most arrogant, ignorant liberal's cant get out of their house without a having to be sure it is going to be warm and toasty when they get back, and they go into extreme withdrawal, and have nervous breakdowns when the washer and dryer doesn't work or their cell phone dies.


My goodness, you are about a dumb fuck. One might note that most of these militia types are on the government dole. Including that silly ass, Bundy. And those four that are still there are going to spend a very long time in the lockup. About 20 years would be just.


----------



## jc456

Vandalshandle said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that.
> 
> Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums.
> 
> If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.
> 
> I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny that you can't defend these creeps on their own merit, you have change the subject to Ferguson. Anyone who got caught vandalizing was arrested and charged with that crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about them you fk.  I care that all of you hypocrites can't bash them enough for what staying in a refuge. Ewwww those mean old men. They threatened absolutely no one. And then got killed with their hands up. And you called that justified. Yet the criminal in Ferguson you feel sorry for. Well, that is just hypocritical. Just like you fks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok. I understand. You would prefer to post about Ferguson. If that does not work, you prefer to post about US! That's pretty interesting, because I have never said a word about Ferguson on this entire board.
Click to expand...

Well using the libturd profiling program, you get tied in.  You can separate yourself by simply stating the Ferguson shooting was justified, for exactly the same reason you find this one. It's that simple.


----------



## RodISHI

koshergrl said:


> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.


It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.


----------



## Vandalshandle

jc456 said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that.
> 
> Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums.
> 
> If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.
> 
> I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny that you can't defend these creeps on their own merit, you have change the subject to Ferguson. Anyone who got caught vandalizing was arrested and charged with that crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about them you fk.  I care that all of you hypocrites can't bash them enough for what staying in a refuge. Ewwww those mean old men. They threatened absolutely no one. And then got killed with their hands up. And you called that justified. Yet the criminal in Ferguson you feel sorry for. Well, that is just hypocritical. Just like you fks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok. I understand. You would prefer to post about Ferguson. If that does not work, you prefer to post about US! That's pretty interesting, because I have never said a word about Ferguson on this entire board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well using the libturd profiling program, you get tied in.  You can separate yourself by simply stating the Ferguson shooting was justified, for exactly the same reason you find this one. It's that simple.
Click to expand...


Not interested in Ferguson. Please stay on topic or start your on thread.


----------



## Vandalshandle

RodISHI said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
Click to expand...


We have our eye on you, Rod, and we are coming to get your guns.....


----------



## Carla_Danger

RodISHI said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
Click to expand...




It was suicide by cop.


----------



## RodISHI

Carla_Danger said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
Click to expand...

 Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.


----------



## RodISHI

Vandalshandle said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have our eye on you, Rod, and we are coming to get your guns.....
Click to expand...

Haven't had a gun for years but the cats and dogs will be happy to meet y'all when you get here.


----------



## Vandalshandle

RodISHI said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
Click to expand...


What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?


----------



## Carla_Danger

RodISHI said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
Click to expand...




You are a lunatic and an extremist, I hope you know that.


----------



## RodISHI

Vandalshandle said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
Click to expand...

Who knows but obviously the haters are into shooting people for protesting in empty buildings. Y'all enjoy the next ten years I think y'all have earned it.


----------



## RodISHI

Carla_Danger said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a lunatic and an extremist, I hope you know that.
Click to expand...

Your clueless but I am sure you are unaware of that.


----------



## Carla_Danger

RodISHI said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who knows but obviously the haters are into shooting people for protesting in empty buildings. Y'all enjoy the next ten years I think y'all have earned it.
Click to expand...




Okay, I will.    I'm going to enjoy the next 20 years, is that okay with you?


----------



## Carla_Danger

RodISHI said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are a lunatic and an extremist, I hope you know that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your clueless but I am sure you are unaware of that.
Click to expand...



Get your tin foil hat, and enjoy your paranoid fantasies.


----------



## RodISHI

Carla_Danger said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who knows but obviously the haters are into shooting people for protesting in empty buildings. Y'all enjoy the next ten years I think y'all have earned it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I will.    I'm going to enjoy the next 20 years, is that okay with you?
Click to expand...

lol


----------



## Vandalshandle

Carla_Danger said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
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> Vandalshandle said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> Carla_Danger said:
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> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who knows but obviously the haters are into shooting people for protesting in empty buildings. Y'all enjoy the next ten years I think y'all have earned it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I will.    I'm going to enjoy the next 20 years, is that okay with you?
Click to expand...


Personally, I am still waiting for communism to take over the world, because the hippies were protesting the Vietnam war. I can only handle one Armageddon at a time...


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## Carla_Danger

RodISHI said:


> Carla_Danger said:
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> 
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> RodISHI said:
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> Vandalshandle said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> 
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who knows but obviously the haters are into shooting people for protesting in empty buildings. Y'all enjoy the next ten years I think y'all have earned it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I will.    I'm going to enjoy the next 20 years, is that okay with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol
Click to expand...




What kind of idiot supports these kind of idiots?


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## RodISHI

Carla_Danger said:


> RodISHI said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
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> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who knows but obviously the haters are into shooting people for protesting in empty buildings. Y'all enjoy the next ten years I think y'all have earned it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I will.    I'm going to enjoy the next 20 years, is that okay with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of idiot supports these kind of idiots?
Click to expand...

You are definitely confused and ill informed. Not my job to educate you though so press on in your fantasy world.


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## Carla_Danger

RodISHI said:


> Carla_Danger said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> Carla_Danger said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows but obviously the haters are into shooting people for protesting in empty buildings. Y'all enjoy the next ten years I think y'all have earned it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I will.    I'm going to enjoy the next 20 years, is that okay with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of idiot supports these kind of idiots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are definitely confused and ill informed. Not my job to educate you though so press on in your fantasy world.
Click to expand...



I'd like an explanation on how these guys are not complete idiots.  You do know they ran like little girls and didn't even clean up their mess or pack their belongings...you know that, right?

Here they are in the video, inviting the FBI to come to a shoot out, then they ran in the middle of the night like cowards.


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## Vandalshandle

I watched part of the video, Carla, and could see that the guy who was ranting the most was a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but I will be damned if I can figure out what the hell was going on with the back hoe. If they were protecting it from the FBI, I must admit that they were successful!


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## Carla_Danger

Vandalshandle said:


> I watched part of the video, Carla, and could see that the guy who was ranting the most was a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but I will be damned if I can figure out what the hell was going on with the back hoe. If they were protecting it from the FBI, I must admit that they were successful!




They were digging trenches for the shootout, but that was before they chickened out and decided to make a run for it in the middle of the night without any of their belongings.


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## RodISHI

Carla_Danger said:


> RodISHI said:
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> Carla_Danger said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> Carla_Danger said:
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> 
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> 
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> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who knows but obviously the haters are into shooting people for protesting in empty buildings. Y'all enjoy the next ten years I think y'all have earned it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I will.    I'm going to enjoy the next 20 years, is that okay with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of idiot supports these kind of idiots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are definitely confused and ill informed. Not my job to educate you though so press on in your fantasy world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like an explanation on how these guys are not complete idiots.  You do know they ran like little girls and didn't even clean up their mess or pack their belongings...you know that, right?
> 
> Here they are in the video, inviting the FBI to come to a shoot out, then they ran in the middle of the night like cowards.
Click to expand...

Like I said you are confused and ill informed. 'Dirty diapers' will do that to you as will 'common core', you are on the losing 'team'.


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## RodISHI

Bundy's nor Finnicum had a backhoe in Oregon dipshit.


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## Carla_Danger

RodISHI said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
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> RodISHI said:
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> Carla_Danger said:
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> RodISHI said:
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> Carla_Danger said:
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> 
> 
> Okay, I will.    I'm going to enjoy the next 20 years, is that okay with you?
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of idiot supports these kind of idiots?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are definitely confused and ill informed. Not my job to educate you though so press on in your fantasy world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like an explanation on how these guys are not complete idiots.  You do know they ran like little girls and didn't even clean up their mess or pack their belongings...you know that, right?
> 
> Here they are in the video, inviting the FBI to come to a shoot out, then they ran in the middle of the night like cowards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I said you are confused and ill informed. 'Dirty diapers' will do that to you as will 'common core', you are on the losing 'team'.
Click to expand...




No, the idiots in the militia lost this one.


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## RodISHI

Like I said y'all get your wish for a very, very, very limited short season.


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## Carla_Danger

RodISHI said:


> Bundy's nor Finnicum had a backhoe in Oregon dipshit.





What are those, dummy?


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## Vandalshandle

Carla_Danger said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watched part of the video, Carla, and could see that the guy who was ranting the most was a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but I will be damned if I can figure out what the hell was going on with the back hoe. If they were protecting it from the FBI, I must admit that they were successful!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were digging trenches for the shootout, but that was before they chickened out and decided to make a run for it in the middle of the night without any of their belongings.
Click to expand...


Ok. So it was, "We will fight in the bird sanctuary! We will fight in the media! But, if they are going to use guns...well, I have to get home. My kid has an orthodontics appointment...."


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## skye

Damn all American traitors...police ....feds ...etc,....who obey...who follow his orders..... the  Hussein  Sunni in the White House....

Bless those patriots ... veterans and Americans.....fighting the scum ....who know him well...the scum

Bless all who are against  this   twisted Administration.


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## RodISHI

Carla_Danger said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bundy's nor Finnicum had a backhoe in Oregon dipshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are those, dummy?
Click to expand...

If you were not so busy running your little nasty fingers to the bone you would know they were not with the Bundy's or Finnicum. Like I said you will have to educate yourself on this one.


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## Carla_Danger

RodISHI said:


> Carla_Danger said:
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> 
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> RodISHI said:
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> 
> 
> Bundy's nor Finnicum had a backhoe in Oregon dipshit.
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> What are those, dummy?
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> 
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> Click to expand...
> 
> If you were not so busy running your little nasty fingers to the bone you would know they were not with the Bundy's or Finnicum. Like I said you will have to educate yourself on this one.
Click to expand...




Idiot.


On Saturday, militants openly drove government-owned vehicles and heavy equipment around the compound, *proclaiming that the trucks and backhoes now belong to the local community.* At the same time, they limited access to the refuge buildings, arguing that letting reporters and photographers inside would pose a safety hazard.


Heavily armed 'security detail' shows up at Oregon standoff encampment


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## Carla_Danger

skye said:


> Damn all American traitors...police ....feds ...etc,....who obey...who follow his orders..... the  Hussein  Sunni in the White House....
> 
> Bless those patriots ... veterans and Americans.....fighting the scum ....who know him well...the scum
> 
> Bless all who are against  this   twisted Administration.





Crazy talk.


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## Vandalshandle

It wouldn't be so funny if these guys weren't a bunch of fat, middle aged farts who are out of shape, out of work, and pathetically going through some sort of middle age crisis in front of the whole world. Frankly, I envision most of their wives sitting at home in front of the tv with their hand over their forehead repeating to themselves, "Oh, PLEASE come home, Charlie! I'll even pay for the Viagra myself!"


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## Carla_Danger

Vandalshandle said:


> It wouldn't be so funny if these guys weren't a bunch of fat, middle aged farts who are out of shape, out of work, and pathetically going through some sort of middle age crisis in front of the whole world. Frankly, I envision most of their wives sitting at home in front of the tv with their hand over their forehead repeating to themselves, "Oh, PLEASE come home, Charlie! I'll even pay for the Viagra myself!"




After seeing what slobs they were, I bet the wives were begging them to get out of the house and go fight for freedom.  lol


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## 9thIDdoc

Like I said; the Feds fucked up.
These people weren't terrorists. They never tried to terrorize anyone.
But best hope the loonie left has been wrong about provocation causing people to become terrorists.
Maybe next time...


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## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> Like I said; the Feds fucked up.
> These people weren't terrorists. They never tried to terrorize anyone.
> But best hope the loonie left has been wrong about provocation causing people to become terrorists.
> Maybe next time...





I like that personal responsibility. When someone becomes a terrorist, it's the fault of the left. We forced those idiots to arm themselves, threaten the Government, and take over the Turd Sanctuary.


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## C_Clayton_Jones

9thIDdoc said:


> Like I said; the Feds fucked up.
> These people weren't terrorists. They never tried to terrorize anyone.
> But best hope the loonie left has been wrong about provocation causing people to become terrorists.
> Maybe next time...


Nonsense. 

The authorities acted appropriately and lawfully with these criminal suspects, who were indeed terrorists – the people of Burns can confirm that fact. 

There should be no 'next time.'


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## 9thIDdoc

I hope these guys haven't just learned that being a terrorist is less dangerous than peaceful protest. No joy in being on the wrong side of an ambush.


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## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> I hope these guys haven't just learned that being a terrorist is less dangerous than peaceful protest. No joy in being on the wrong side of an ambush.



Its only more dangerous when you try to pull out a gun to shoot a cop. Like wanna-be cop killer Lavoy did. 

That piece of shit can eat a bag of dicks in whatever wooden box he ends up in.


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## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Like I said; the Feds fucked up.
> These people weren't terrorists. They never tried to terrorize anyone.
> But best hope the loonie left has been wrong about provocation causing people to become terrorists.
> Maybe next time...



Nope. The Feds acted in perfect accordance with the law. The waited until the leaders of the militia were together and away from the refuge and away from the innocent civilians of Burns. 

The the Feds go probable cause warrants for each of the folks they arrested,  they executed the warrants in perfect accordance with the law. They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender. He refused to leave his vehicle, speeding away, leading the cops on a high speed car chase and trying to run a police blockade. When his truck got stuck in the snow, Lavoy got out and tried to get away on foot. He didn't get car, as the cops had anticipated the possibility and already had men waiting to intercept him.

When Lavoy saw them, he reached for his gun to shoot a cop. And the State Trooper shot him first. 

There's not a single thing the Feds should have changed. They did it exactly right. Lavoy wanted suicide by cop. And was willing to kill a cop to get it. Thankfully, the Trooper put that animal down before Lavoy could hurt anyone. 

That wanna be cop killer can rot in hell.


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## koshergrl

Vandalshandle said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> RodISHI said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> 
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who knows but obviously the haters are into shooting people for protesting in empty buildings. Y'all enjoy the next ten years I think y'all have earned it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I will.    I'm going to enjoy the next 20 years, is that okay with you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Personally, I am still waiting for communism to take over the world, because the hippies were protesting the Vietnam war. I can only handle one Armageddon at a time...
Click to expand...

You're on drugs right now, aren't you....


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## koshergrl

Vandalshandle said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
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> RodISHI said:
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> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
Click to expand...

City, county governments reject Oregon Wild proposal


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## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
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> 
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> Carla_Danger said:
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> 
> 
> 
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> RodISHI said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> City, county governments reject Oregon Wild proposal
Click to expand...


Laughing......._another _Occupation, Koshy?

Didn't your brain dead ilk learn their lesson from the *last* time they made that stupid mistake? With the 4 remaining wanna-be cop killers on the refuge now snivelling, begging for the FBI to let them go home without charges.

And then threatening to kill the FBI when they were told no.



> “There are no laws in this United States now!” the man declared angrily. “This is a free-for-all Armageddon. Any LEO or military or law enforcement or feds that stand up and fuck their oath — don’t abide by their oath — are the enemy!”
> 
> “If they stop you from getting here, kill them!”
> 
> Oregon Militia Types - Rank And File Want Revenge; Leaders Not So Much



Care to cheer these insane, delusional fucks on in their calls to kill law enforcement officers?

Or perhaps you'd like to tell the FBI that the federal government doesn't have any jurisdiction on federal property.


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## Skylar

> Northwest “Patriot” leaders also chimed in. “It’s a dark day in America, a dark day for liberty,” said Washington “liberty speaker” Gavin Seim, who warned that “we stand on the brink of revolution.”
> 
> Oregon Militia Types - Rank And File Want Revenge; Leaders Not So Much



No, you hapless, silly little dipshits. We don't. You've got the barest handful of fat, drunken Cosplay wanna-be cop killers on your side. And a nation that won't put up with your shit. Which is why you *talk* about 'revolution'. But you don't do a goddamn thing.


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## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> hmm....what felony was levoy convicted of? What felony had he been charged with? Felonious reading of the Constitution? Felony description of federal crimes? Felony request of the use of a county fairgound building?
> 
> Those are scary to commies like you...Im sure your balls suck right up...if you havent s.already had them removed, that is. I mean, obviously they dont do you any good..if you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was murder by cop. State police to be exact according to the FBI were the shooters. I don't know anyone who could not flinch while being shot and for every report out there claiming the man was a criminal that should have been shot justice does come even if they cannot recognize it when it falls back onto them.   Interview of a former police officer who carefully viewed the video and read the reports.  There are more videos if the government does not with hold them that will show a man was executed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Looked like murder by cop to me and many others. Y'all have your wish for a very, very, very short limited season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's next? Occupation of the snack vendor building at Badlands National Monument in North Dakota?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> City, county governments reject Oregon Wild proposal
Click to expand...

KG should have read the link.  The proposal is in the earliest stage of development, only a draft proposal at this time. They reject it and are asking for more community input in writing the draft proposal. They are actually in favor of the overall plan, but they don't want the mess like the one they had in Harney County and the Wildlife Refuge. The residents think more local input and communication can prevent potential disagreements and problems.


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## Vandalshandle

When the revolution starts, these fat assed nuts will all have heart attacks while strapping on there ammo belts and ranting at the cameras. I don't expect them to learn any lessons from all this. I expect them to die. Since a terrorist is a terrorist, whether domestic or foreign, it really makes no difference to me. If that is their wish, then so be it. Frankly, I am surprised that the Bundys were smart enough to realize that they had pushed the envelope as far as it would go, before they were going to find themselves on the business end of a rifle round.


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## koshergrl

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...3&id=100006436276254&ref=m_notif&notif_t=like


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## koshergrl

Vandal finds men who arent wearing bicycle shorts menacing lol.


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## Vandalshandle

koshergrl said:


> Vandal finds men who arent wearing bicycle shorts menacing lol.



Menacing? These guys are pathetic loser whiners, with short penises, and long guns.


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## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that.
> 
> Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums.
> 
> If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.
> 
> I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny that you can't defend these creeps on their own merit, you have change the subject to Ferguson. Anyone who got caught vandalizing was arrested and charged with that crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about them you fk.  I care that all of you hypocrites can't bash them enough for what staying in a refuge. Ewwww those mean old men. They threatened absolutely no one. And then got killed with their hands up. And you called that justified. Yet the criminal in Ferguson you feel sorry for. Well, that is just hypocritical. Just like you fks!
Click to expand...




They threatened law enforcement, you boob.


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## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that.
> 
> Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums.
> 
> If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.
> 
> I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny that you can't defend these creeps on their own merit, you have change the subject to Ferguson. Anyone who got caught vandalizing was arrested and charged with that crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about them you fk.  I care that all of you hypocrites can't bash them enough for what staying in a refuge. Ewwww those mean old men. They threatened absolutely no one. And then got killed with their hands up. And you called that justified. Yet the criminal in Ferguson you feel sorry for. Well, that is just hypocritical. Just like you fks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They threatened law enforcement, you boob.
Click to expand...

Sure they did


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, of course, as we knew they would, they trashed the sanctuary, and will not be required to reimburse the government for that.
> 
> Where I come from, if someone breaks in to a government facility and does that, they are referred to as vagrants, vandals, or bums.
> 
> If they are wearing cowboy hats and threatening the government law enforcement  people with loaded weapons, they are called patriots and militia.
> 
> I keep it simple. I call them domestic terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny that you can't defend these creeps on their own merit, you have change the subject to Ferguson. Anyone who got caught vandalizing was arrested and charged with that crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about them you fk.  I care that all of you hypocrites can't bash them enough for what staying in a refuge. Ewwww those mean old men. They threatened absolutely no one. And then got killed with their hands up. And you called that justified. Yet the criminal in Ferguson you feel sorry for. Well, that is just hypocritical. Just like you fks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They threatened law enforcement, you boob.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure they did
Click to expand...



Everyone is laughing at you and these armed boobs.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _First things first.
> 
> You said Kerry's Purple Hearts were unearned because [at least some of] his injuries did not involve enemy action.
> 
> I posted the events leading up to each of those medals. I'm still waiting for you to point out which ones were not inflicted during enemy action._
> *---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
> *JOHN KERRY'S 'SELF-INFLICTED'*
> *PURPLE HEART, BRONZE STAR*
> *Vietnam Swift Boat vets reveal new details of charges against presidential candidate*
> John Kerry’s ‘self-inflicted’ Purple Heart, Bronze Star
> 
> Published: 08/10/2004 at 1:00 AM
> 
> image: http://www.wnd.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-print/images/printer_famfamfam.gif
> 60-second commercial opposing John Kerry for president, the Swift Boat Vets for Truth reveal new details of their politically sizzling charges against the candidate who made his war experience the cornerstone of his convention acceptance speech.
> 
> Attempting to bolster their accusations that Kerry misrepresented slight injuries to win Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, the vets cite a March 13, 1969, incident for which the young lieutenant was decorated.
> 
> 
> 
> Two injuries – a small bruise on his right arm and a minor injury to his buttocks – won Kerry his Third Purple Heart and a trip home. However, the vets say, the wound to his buttocks was self-inflicted and should never have received Purple Heart consideration.
> 
> While Kerry claims the injury came from shrapnel from an underwater mine, Larry Thurlow, an officer on shore with Kerry that day, insists the wound was the result of Kerry’s decision to throw a concussion grenade into a rice pile. The “shrapnel,” he says, was actually rice pellets.
> 
> As further evidence, the vets say, Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks’ wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache.
> 
> Sworn statements of those present say there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star.
> 
> “The conclusion is inescapable: that Kerry lied by reporting to the Navy that he had been wounded by shrapnel in his backside from an enemy mine when in reality he negligently wounded himself and then lied about the wound in order to secure a third Purple Heart and a quick trip home,” reads the letter.
> 
> The letter continues: “Kerry’s operating report, Bronze Star story, and subsequent ‘no man left behind’ story are a total hoax on the Navy and the nation,” they say.
> 
> As to the daring rescue discussed in the documentary video shown to the nation at the Democratic convention, the vets say the rescue was well under way under the leadership of others when Kerry returned to the scene where Special Forces soldier Jim Rassman was plucked out of the water. Eyewitnesses have signed affidavits explaining when Kerry returned, there was no more hostile fire. He just merely leaned over the boat and assisted Rassman out of the water.
> 
> “Kerry’s account of this action, which was used to secure the Bronze Star and a third Purple Heart, is an extraordinary example of fraud,” they say.
> 
> The letter also recounts the incident that occurred Dec. 2, 1968, that led to Kerry receiving his first Purple Heart.
> 
> Once again, the vets insist there was no hostile fire involved, and, again, they say, Kerry’s very minor wound was self-inflicted.
> 
> According to the vets’ account, Kerry, Navy Lt. William Schachte, and an enlisted man were on a whaler.
> 
> “Seeing movement from an unknown source, the sailors opened fire on the movement,” the letter says. “There was no hostile fire. When Kerry’s rifle jammed, he picked up an M-79 grenade launcher and fired a grenade at a nearby object. This sprayed the boat with shrapnel from Kerry’s own grenade, a tiny piece of which embedded in Kerry’s arm.”
> 
> Upon examining Kerry’s injury, Dr. Lewis Letson says he asked Kerry why he was there.
> 
> Kerry reportedly told him he had been wounded by hostile fire. Letson removed the tiny fragment with tweezers and placed a Band-Aid over the scratch.
> 
> The next morning, Kerry went to see Division Commander Grant Hibbard to ask for the Purple Heart. Hibbard had already spoken to Schachte and conducted an investigation. Hibbard’s investigation revealed that Kerry’s “rose thorn” scratch had been self-inflicted in the absence of hostile fire. Hibbard denied the award.
> 
> Some three months later, Kerry managed to obtain his first Purple Heart from an officer with no connection to Coastal Division 14 or knowledge of the Dec. 2, 1968, event, they say.
> 
> “All normal documentation supporting a Purple Heart is missing,” the letter says. “There is absolutely no casualty report (i.e., spot report) or hostile fire report or after-action report in the Navy’s files to support this ‘Purple Heart’ because there was no casualty, hostile fire, or action on which to report. The sole document relied upon by Kerry is a record showing the band aid and tweezers treatment by Dr. Letson recorded by deceased corpsman, Jess Carreon.
> 
> “There are no witnesses who claim to have seen hostile fire – necessary for a Purple Heart (even a rose thorn Purple Heart) – that day. At least three witnesses, Dr. Letson (who spoke to the participants and removed the M-79 fragment), Lt. Bill Schachte (on the boat), and Cmdr. Grant Hibbard (whose investigation revealed Kerry’s application for a Purple Heart to be fraudulent), are able to testify directly or based upon contemporaneous investigation that Kerry’s first Purple Heart was a fraud,” says the letter.
> 
> Swift Boat Vets for Truth claims a membership of 254 sailors from Coastal Squadron One, ranging from vice admirals to seamen. They claim 16 of the 23 surviving officers who served with Kerry in swift boats in Vietnam and who could be found have joined.
> 
> 
> Read more at John Kerry’s ‘self-inflicted’ Purple Heart, Bronze Star


Sorry, but you lose when you rely on Larry Thurlow's lies to impugn Kerry.  The official record indicates Kerry was injured during his heroic rescue of Rassman. Thurlow is a proven liar as he claimed that event did not occur under enemy fire; except it was later revealed he too earned a Bronze Star with Combat "V" for heroic actions *under fire* for the same event. Interestingly enough, the book you tout, _"Unfit to Command",_ left the little detail out of their account of the story.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you call the punks who trashed all the businesses in Ferguson and Baltimore? Who's paid for that?  Inconsistent asshole and huge hypocrite! Lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny that you can't defend these creeps on their own merit, you have change the subject to Ferguson. Anyone who got caught vandalizing was arrested and charged with that crime.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't care about them you fk.  I care that all of you hypocrites can't bash them enough for what staying in a refuge. Ewwww those mean old men. They threatened absolutely no one. And then got killed with their hands up. And you called that justified. Yet the criminal in Ferguson you feel sorry for. Well, that is just hypocritical. Just like you fks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They threatened law enforcement, you boob.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure they did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone is laughing at you and these armed boobs.
Click to expand...

And?


----------



## 12icer

Ignorance is bliss isn't it. I know liberal indoctrinated fools are mentally challenged, but what about governments killing more people than any other entity don't you understand, This was all about the Bundy's, funny that all of this took about a month to happen, but the feds don't have the balls to arrest someone who actually contributed to the murder of hundreds of our citizens, and has probably caused the worst, most damaging security breach in the history of this country. The DOJ and FBI  leadership, and their boss were pissed that they didn't get to take out these people before, they were, and still are determined to kill anyone who stands up to their heavy handed assault on all the first amendments rights, and the second amendment. Anyone too ignorant to see the pattern is less intelligent than an amoeba. like the poster that called ME a dumb f**k, I'm sure that IQ is close to a snail. Wait, maybe I'm being too benevolent, too many brain cells in a snail.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildBillKelsoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why on earth would police assume anything other than that under those circumstances? And why  should police hesitate to open fire on someone  they believe is reaching for a weapon under those circumstances.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They shouldn't. Just like that cop in Chicago was right to assume that dude with a kifife was going to cut everyone up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That has nothing to do with what happened in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it does. It's all about perspective.
> 
> This event is exposing Liberal bullshit.  We don't hear y'all crying law enforcement being militarized, now. Do we?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More bullshit. There's only one question that needs to be answered -- was the FBI justified in shooting Finicum. Nothing in Chicago answers that
> 
> The FBI pulled over a car full of self-proclaimed militia after they trespassed on public property for 4 weeks. The FBI was informed they were armed, which they were. After trying to escape the FBI, one of them gets out, runs for the forest with his hands up -- and then reaches for his gun.
> 
> Justified shooting.
> 
> Nothing in Chicago affects that or has any influence on it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hazlnut said:
> 
> 
> 
> FBI took care of business.
> 
> Good job.
> 
> Terrorists go to ground.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The terrorists are people like you..and in this case, the pigs who ambushed a group of people traveling to a peaceful meeting, where people were waiting to hear what they had to say.
> 
> The FBI and Harney county officials don't want people to know what's going on. The Sheriff of Grant County had and has no intention of inviting the feds into his county to do more damage than they already have, and he will go to the ground defending his constituents from them.
> 
> The terrorists are the feds, hazelnut, faun, and the rest who are fine with the ambush and assassination of an unarmed man.
Click to expand...

Now you're flat out lying. Not only was Finicum armed, he had a loaded firearm in the very pocket he was reaching for. You're a fucking moonbat.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny that you can't defend these creeps on their own merit, you have change the subject to Ferguson. Anyone who got caught vandalizing was arrested and charged with that crime.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about them you fk.  I care that all of you hypocrites can't bash them enough for what staying in a refuge. Ewwww those mean old men. They threatened absolutely no one. And then got killed with their hands up. And you called that justified. Yet the criminal in Ferguson you feel sorry for. Well, that is just hypocritical. Just like you fks!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They threatened law enforcement, you boob.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure they did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone is laughing at you and these armed boobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And?
Click to expand...



You're funny.


----------



## Faun

Staidhup said:


> I find it interesting in that the video produced and eyewitness account repudiates justification for the shooting. On the other hand I see those of the liberal persuasion applauding the shooting. Ironically if the victim was black their would be cries of murder, profiling, and chants proclaiming black lives mater. The key question that remains unanswered is documentation as to what was said by the officers and what was said by the victim, and if in fact he was shot in the back.


That question was answered. Finicum, who believed the FBI was going to shoot him, shouted something to the effect of, _just shoot me then. Is this what you want? Just shoot me!_ And in an append suicide by cop, reached for his gun.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then we all agree that Lavoy's shooting was justified.
> 
> That only took 6 pages.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lay off the smack, it's fucking with your brain. The other cop shootings have absolutely nothing to do with this one. Whether the others were justifiable or not has no bearing on the justification of this shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it does sherlock.  It's what you don't understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pouts the idiot who admitted he needs help understanding English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love your make believe. You still playing with your Barbies?
Click to expand...

I can only go by what you say. When you say you don't understand another person's post, written clearly in well formed and grammatically correct English; and you ask him to teach you English ... what other reasonable conclusion can that lead readers to?


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care about them you fk.  I care that all of you hypocrites can't bash them enough for what staying in a refuge. Ewwww those mean old men. They threatened absolutely no one. And then got killed with their hands up. And you called that justified. Yet the criminal in Ferguson you feel sorry for. Well, that is just hypocritical. Just like you fks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They threatened law enforcement, you boob.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure they did
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone is laughing at you and these armed boobs.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You're funny.
Click to expand...

And?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it isn't that simple tarzan.  It is only a threat if you agree the other cop shootings were a threat.  Period, you can't have it both ways double standard dude. Until you agree, then your argument is shit.
> 
> 
> 
> Lay off the smack, it's fucking with your brain. The other cop shootings have absolutely nothing to do with this one. Whether the others were justifiable or not has no bearing on the justification of this shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it does sherlock.  It's what you don't understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pouts the idiot who admitted he needs help understanding English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love your make believe. You still playing with your Barbies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can only go by what you say. When you say you don't understand another person's post, written clearly in well formed and grammatically correct English; and you ask him to teach you English ... what other reasonable conclusion can that lead readers to?
Click to expand...

Hahahaha in your dreams


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting in that the video produced and eyewitness account repudiates justification for the shooting. On the other hand I see those of the liberal persuasion applauding the shooting. Ironically if the victim was black their would be cries of murder, profiling, and chants proclaiming black lives mater. The key question that remains unanswered is documentation as to what was said by the officers and what was said by the victim, and if in fact he was shot in the back.
> 
> 
> 
> That question was answered. Finicum, who believed the FBI was going to shoot him, shouted something to the effect of, _just shoot me then. Is this what you want? Just shoot me!_ And in an append suicide by cop, reached for his gun.
Click to expand...

And shot without a weapon


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting in that the video produced and eyewitness account repudiates justification for the shooting. On the other hand I see those of the liberal persuasion applauding the shooting. Ironically if the victim was black their would be cries of murder, profiling, and chants proclaiming black lives mater. The key question that remains unanswered is documentation as to what was said by the officers and what was said by the victim, and if in fact he was shot in the back.
> 
> 
> 
> That question was answered. Finicum, who believed the FBI was going to shoot him, shouted something to the effect of, _just shoot me then. Is this what you want? Just shoot me!_ And in an append suicide by cop, reached for his gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And shot without a weapon
Click to expand...



He was reaching for his gun, you know, the one he carried 24/7.


----------



## Faun

12icer said:


> Ignorance is bliss isn't it. I know liberal indoctrinated fools are mentally challenged, but what about governments killing more people than any other entity don't you understand, This was all about the Bundy's, funny that all of this took about a month to happen, but the feds don't have the balls to arrest someone who actually contributed to the murder of hundreds of our citizens, and has probably caused the worst, most damaging security breach in the history of this country. The DOJ and FBI  leadership, and their boss were pissed that they didn't get to take out these people before, they were, and still are determined to kill anyone who stands up to their heavy handed assault on all the first amendments rights, and the second amendment. Anyone too ignorant to see the pattern is less intelligent than an amoeba. like the poster that called ME a dumb f**k, I'm sure that IQ is close to a snail. Wait, maybe I'm being too benevolent, too many brain cells in a snail.


Too fucking rightarded. It became about Bundy when he seized public property.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lay off the smack, it's fucking with your brain. The other cop shootings have absolutely nothing to do with this one. Whether the others were justifiable or not has no bearing on the justification of this shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> sure it does sherlock.  It's what you don't understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pouts the idiot who admitted he needs help understanding English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love your make believe. You still playing with your Barbies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can only go by what you say. When you say you don't understand another person's post, written clearly in well formed and grammatically correct English; and you ask him to teach you English ... what other reasonable conclusion can that lead readers to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hahahaha in your dreams
Click to expand...

No, not in my dreams. Your actual plea to be educated is here on the forum...

Assholes making trouble in Oregon


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure it does sherlock.  It's what you don't understand.
> 
> 
> 
> Pouts the idiot who admitted he needs help understanding English.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I love your make believe. You still playing with your Barbies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can only go by what you say. When you say you don't understand another person's post, written clearly in well formed and grammatically correct English; and you ask him to teach you English ... what other reasonable conclusion can that lead readers to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hahahaha in your dreams
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, not in my dreams. Your actual plea to be educated is here on the forum...
> 
> Assholes making trouble in Oregon
Click to expand...

And I'm still waiting for the language. 

By the way, the question was in English!


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting in that the video produced and eyewitness account repudiates justification for the shooting. On the other hand I see those of the liberal persuasion applauding the shooting. Ironically if the victim was black their would be cries of murder, profiling, and chants proclaiming black lives mater. The key question that remains unanswered is documentation as to what was said by the officers and what was said by the victim, and if in fact he was shot in the back.
> 
> 
> 
> That question was answered. Finicum, who believed the FBI was going to shoot him, shouted something to the effect of, _just shoot me then. Is this what you want? Just shoot me!_ And in an append suicide by cop, reached for his gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And shot without a weapon
Click to expand...

The FBI says otherwise and you have no proof to the contrary.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pouts the idiot who admitted he needs help understanding English.
> 
> 
> 
> I love your make believe. You still playing with your Barbies?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can only go by what you say. When you say you don't understand another person's post, written clearly in well formed and grammatically correct English; and you ask him to teach you English ... what other reasonable conclusion can that lead readers to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hahahaha in your dreams
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, not in my dreams. Your actual plea to be educated is here on the forum...
> 
> Assholes making trouble in Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I'm still waiting for the language.
> 
> By the way, the question was in English!
Click to expand...

The language is *English*.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting in that the video produced and eyewitness account repudiates justification for the shooting. On the other hand I see those of the liberal persuasion applauding the shooting. Ironically if the victim was black their would be cries of murder, profiling, and chants proclaiming black lives mater. The key question that remains unanswered is documentation as to what was said by the officers and what was said by the victim, and if in fact he was shot in the back.
> 
> 
> 
> That question was answered. Finicum, who believed the FBI was going to shoot him, shouted something to the effect of, _just shoot me then. Is this what you want? Just shoot me!_ And in an append suicide by cop, reached for his gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And shot without a weapon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says otherwise and you have no proof to the contrary.
Click to expand...

I have a video and there was no weapon.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love your make believe. You still playing with your Barbies?
> 
> 
> 
> I can only go by what you say. When you say you don't understand another person's post, written clearly in well formed and grammatically correct English; and you ask him to teach you English ... what other reasonable conclusion can that lead readers to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hahahaha in your dreams
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, not in my dreams. Your actual plea to be educated is here on the forum...
> 
> Assholes making trouble in Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I'm still waiting for the language.
> 
> By the way, the question was in English!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The language is *English*.
Click to expand...

The words are English,  the phrase, no


----------



## Old Rocks

Are we supposed to take the word of someone that has repeatedly posted lies on an anonymous message board over that of the FBI and the Oregon State Patrol.


----------



## Skylar

Vandalshandle said:


> When the revolution starts, these fat assed nuts will all have heart attacks while strapping on there ammo belts and ranting at the cameras. I don't expect them to learn any lessons from all this. I expect them to die. Since a terrorist is a terrorist, whether domestic or foreign, it really makes no difference to me. If that is their wish, then so be it. Frankly, I am surprised that the Bundys were smart enough to realize that they had pushed the envelope as far as it would go, before they were going to find themselves on the business end of a rifle round.



I don't doubt these idiots were willing to die. But I don't think they were anticipating spending the next decade or more in prison, slowly rotting away their days.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting in that the video produced and eyewitness account repudiates justification for the shooting. On the other hand I see those of the liberal persuasion applauding the shooting. Ironically if the victim was black their would be cries of murder, profiling, and chants proclaiming black lives mater. The key question that remains unanswered is documentation as to what was said by the officers and what was said by the victim, and if in fact he was shot in the back.
> 
> 
> 
> That question was answered. Finicum, who believed the FBI was going to shoot him, shouted something to the effect of, _just shoot me then. Is this what you want? Just shoot me!_ And in an append suicide by cop, reached for his gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And shot without a weapon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says otherwise and you have no proof to the contrary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a video and there was no weapon.
Click to expand...

The video doesn't prove he was unarmed any more than it proves he wasn't wearing socks.

The FBI says they found a gun on him, they found more guns in the vehicle, and at least one of those apprehended can be seen tossing their weapon down.

Why on G-d's green Earth would I believe a rightie lunatic like you over law enforcement??

_<smh>_


----------



## Arianrhod




----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can only go by what you say. When you say you don't understand another person's post, written clearly in well formed and grammatically correct English; and you ask him to teach you English ... what other reasonable conclusion can that lead readers to?
> 
> 
> 
> Hahahaha in your dreams
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, not in my dreams. Your actual plea to be educated is here on the forum...
> 
> Assholes making trouble in Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And I'm still waiting for the language.
> 
> By the way, the question was in English!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The language is *English*.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The words are English,  the phrase, no
Click to expand...

You remain retarded. Yes, even the phrase is in English. But as you demonstrated, you need lessons in English to understand it.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_"You said Kerry's Purple Hearts were unearned because [at least some of] his injuries did not involve enemy action.

I posted the events leading up to each of those medals. I'm still waiting for you to point out which ones were not inflicted during enemy action".
"Sorry, but you lose when you rely on Larry Thurlow's lies to impugn Kerry. The official record indicates Kerry was injured during his heroic rescue of Rassman. Thurlow is a proven liar as he claimed that event did not occur under enemy fire; except it was later revealed he too earned a Bronze Star with Combat "V" for heroic actions *under fire* for the same event. Interestingly enough, the book you tout, "Unfit to Command", left the little detail out of their account of the story."_
_-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------_
Do you even bother to read what you post? Are you blond by any chance? I posted this and you just reposted it above:

"As further evidence, the vets say,* Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks’ wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache.*

*Sworn statements of those present say* there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star."

Aside from the enemy action requirement the main reason Kerry did not deserve his PHs was none of his "wounds" were worth considering as wounds. He never lost duty time due to his injuries. And I think that his scratches were all taken care of with bandaids and antibiotic ointment. Pretty pathetic to demand metals without reason except for bullshit. But-while on the subject-I have read his citations "for valour" and his actual performance certainly showed no evidence that he deserved them.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _"You said Kerry's Purple Hearts were unearned because [at least some of] his injuries did not involve enemy action.
> 
> I posted the events leading up to each of those medals. I'm still waiting for you to point out which ones were not inflicted during enemy action".
> "Sorry, but you lose when you rely on Larry Thurlow's lies to impugn Kerry. The official record indicates Kerry was injured during his heroic rescue of Rassman. Thurlow is a proven liar as he claimed that event did not occur under enemy fire; except it was later revealed he too earned a Bronze Star with Combat "V" for heroic actions *under fire* for the same event. Interestingly enough, the book you tout, "Unfit to Command", left the little detail out of their account of the story."
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------_
> Do you even bother to read what you post? Are you blond by any chance? I posted this and you just reposted it above:
> 
> "As further evidence, the vets say,* Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks’ wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache.*



Why would I care that you posted that when Kerry never said any such thing? Kerry did acknowledge he took shrapnel from a grenade earlier but that had nothing to do with the injury to his arm sustained later during his heroic efforts to rescue Rassman.

Both injuries were documented. Even if you want to ignore the earlier injury to his leg, the one to his arm rendered him eligible for a Purple Heart; along with a Bronze Star with Combat "V".

Meanwhile, you intimated his injuries weren't sustained during enemy actions. You have failed to show any of them weren't, leaving you in the unenviable position of being proven wrong.



9thIDdoc said:


> *Sworn statements of those present say* there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star."


LOL

Yeah, by *Larry Thurlow,* who didn't reveal he too earned a Bronze Star with Combat "V" for his heroic part in rescuing Rassman -- *under fire.* A not so minor detail which emerged no thanks to Thurlow, Swiftboat Vets, or "Unfit for Command."





9thIDdoc said:


> Aside from the enemy action requirement the main reason Kerry did not deserve his PHs was none of his "wounds" were worth considering as wounds. He never lost duty time due to his injuries. And I think that his scratches were all taken care of with bandaids and antibiotic ointment. Pretty pathetic to demand metals without reason except for bullshit. But-while on the subject-I have read his citations "for valour" and his actual performance certainly showed no evidence that he deserved them.


This is where you post official  government documentation from that time period which establishes the minimal injury requirements for receiving a Purple Heart.....

G'head, I'll wait....


----------



## Vandalshandle

Has the revolution started yet? Have the cowboys taken over the concession stand at Craters of the Moon National Monument?


----------



## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> _"You said Kerry's Purple Hearts were unearned because [at least some of] his injuries did not involve enemy action.
> 
> I posted the events leading up to each of those medals. I'm still waiting for you to point out which ones were not inflicted during enemy action".
> "Sorry, but you lose when you rely on Larry Thurlow's lies to impugn Kerry. The official record indicates Kerry was injured during his heroic rescue of Rassman. Thurlow is a proven liar as he claimed that event did not occur under enemy fire; except it was later revealed he too earned a Bronze Star with Combat "V" for heroic actions *under fire* for the same event. Interestingly enough, the book you tout, "Unfit to Command", left the little detail out of their account of the story."
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------_
> Do you even bother to read what you post? Are you blond by any chance? I posted this and you just reposted it above:
> 
> "As further evidence, the vets say,* Kerry himself reflected in his own journal that his buttocks’ wound came, not from a mine but, rather, from a grenade tossed into a rice cache.*
> 
> *Sworn statements of those present say* there was no hostile fire involved in this incident for which Kerry received his third Purple Heart and the coveted Bronze Star."
> 
> Aside from the enemy action requirement the main reason Kerry did not deserve his PHs was none of his "wounds" were worth considering as wounds. He never lost duty time due to his injuries. And I think that his scratches were all taken care of with bandaids and antibiotic ointment. Pretty pathetic to demand metals without reason except for bullshit. But-while on the subject-I have read his citations "for valour" and his actual performance certainly showed no evidence that he deserved them.





I'm getting bored with this conversation about John Kerry. Why don't you tell us how much you love Jane Fonda instead.


----------



## Old Rocks

Ol' 9th is getting his ass kicked concerning the felons at the Refuge. So all he has left is to divert the conversations.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

I have been off topic in response to questions  or off-topic statements  made by others here. Faun just lately. She seems determined to excuse the inexcusable in that POS coward Kerry.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

It has been alleged:
That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
Can someone refute these allegations?


----------



## Arianrhod

9thIDdoc said:


> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?



You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> I have been off topic in response to questions  or off-topic statements  made by others here. Faun just lately. She seems determined to excuse the inexcusable in that POS coward Kerry.


You fit right in with the whiners who were just arrested in Oregon.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Arianrhod said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
Click to expand...


Not any more than I just did. I can't tell enough from the video (no sound and long range) to tell one way or another. One of the women in the truck was making these allegations. I did note what appeared to be a bullet strike near the front passenger side wheel well after LaVoy was  down around the time the flash-bang grenades went off (still wondering why those were used).


----------



## 9thIDdoc

bodecea said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been off topic in response to questions  or off-topic statements  made by others here. Faun just lately. She seems determined to excuse the inexcusable in that POS coward Kerry.
> 
> 
> 
> You fit right in with the whiners who were just arrested in Oregon.
Click to expand...


Thank you! And you fit right in with Obama's other sheep.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been off topic in response to questions  or off-topic statements  made by others here. Faun just lately. She seems determined to excuse the inexcusable in that POS coward Kerry.
> 
> 
> 
> You fit right in with the whiners who were just arrested in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you! And you fit right in with Obama's other sheep.
Click to expand...

Now you want to deflect to President Obama.   You certainly cannot stay on topic.  Has this been a life long problem?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

bodecea said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been off topic in response to questions  or off-topic statements  made by others here. Faun just lately. She seems determined to excuse the inexcusable in that POS coward Kerry.
> 
> 
> 
> You fit right in with the whiners who were just arrested in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you! And you fit right in with Obama's other sheep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want to deflect to President Obama.   You certainly cannot stay on topic.  Has this been a life long problem?
Click to expand...


The protest was about government corruption which certainly brings him into it. Take off your blinders, you think people are willing to risk their lives just so they can commune with the birds?


----------



## mamooth

9thIDdoc said:


> The protest was about government corruption which certainly brings him into it. Take off your blinders, you think people are willing to risk their lives just so they can commune with the birds?



Of course not. They wanted free stuff. You know, the normal thing that motivates conservatives.


----------



## Camp

9thIDdoc said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been off topic in response to questions  or off-topic statements  made by others here. Faun just lately. She seems determined to excuse the inexcusable in that POS coward Kerry.
> 
> 
> 
> You fit right in with the whiners who were just arrested in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you! And you fit right in with Obama's other sheep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want to deflect to President Obama.   You certainly cannot stay on topic.  Has this been a life long problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The protest was about government corruption which certainly brings him into it. Take off your blinders, you think people are willing to risk their lives just so they can commune with the birds?
Click to expand...

It had nothing to do with corruption and it was not a protest. The protest ended in the town. What happened at the refuge was a criminal armed takeover of a federal facility. Again, there was never any corruption involved in the protest or the armed protest.


----------



## Vandalshandle

As near as I can tell, the truck was going along peacefully, when they were stopped by law enforcement. They tried to get out, but the doors were stuck. Probably a problem with the door locking mechanism. Then, the driver had an epileptic seizure, which forced his foot down on the gas, so the truck traveled down the road. Then, the driver heroically steered the truck around the roadblock, in spite of his seizure. It got stuck in the snow. Then Finicum jumped out with his hands up, begging for the lives of all the passengers. Law enforcement demanded that he point out which passengers he was talking about. He lowered his hands to point at them, and law enforcement immediately executed him. They quickly threw a loaded 9MM under him as he fell, and another gun at the passengers getting out, to make it look like they were armed. Actually nobody in the truck had any weapons because they were on their way to a anti-NRA rally when all this happened.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Camp said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been off topic in response to questions  or off-topic statements  made by others here. Faun just lately. She seems determined to excuse the inexcusable in that POS coward Kerry.
> 
> 
> 
> You fit right in with the whiners who were just arrested in Oregon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you! And you fit right in with Obama's other sheep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want to deflect to President Obama.   You certainly cannot stay on topic.  Has this been a life long problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The protest was about government corruption which certainly brings him into it. Take off your blinders, you think people are willing to risk their lives just so they can commune with the birds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It had nothing to do with corruption and it was not a protest. The protest ended in the town. What happened at the refuge was a criminal armed takeover of a federal facility. Again, there was never any corruption involved in the protest or the armed protest.
Click to expand...


Only true in whatever fantasy realm you dwell in.


----------



## Old Rocks

The one next door to yours?


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?


It's been alleged:

That you are not a true vet.
That you are really an unemployed welfare cheat.
That you are living in your parents' basement.
That you are over 350 pounds.
Can someone refute these allegations?


----------



## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not any more than I just did. I can't tell enough from the video (no sound and long range) to tell one way or another. One of the women in the truck was making these allegations. I did note what appeared to be a bullet strike near the front passenger side wheel well after LaVoy was  down around the time the flash-bang grenades went off (still wondering why those were used).
Click to expand...




Okay, so the answer is no.

Thank you.


----------



## Camp

9thIDdoc said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> You fit right in with the whiners who were just arrested in Oregon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! And you fit right in with Obama's other sheep.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you want to deflect to President Obama.   You certainly cannot stay on topic.  Has this been a life long problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The protest was about government corruption which certainly brings him into it. Take off your blinders, you think people are willing to risk their lives just so they can commune with the birds?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It had nothing to do with corruption and it was not a protest. The protest ended in the town. What happened at the refuge was a criminal armed takeover of a federal facility. Again, there was never any corruption involved in the protest or the armed protest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Only true in whatever fantasy realm you dwell in.
Click to expand...

The word corruption has an exact definition. Explain the corruption involved with this situation.


----------



## koshergrl

yeah the review of the video shows lavoy was shot before his hnda sropped.


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> yeah the review of the video shows lavoy was shot before his hnda sropped.




Liar. He put his hands down and was reaching in his jacket.


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> Are we supposed to take the word of someone that has repeatedly posted lies on an anonymous message board over that of the FBI and the Oregon State Patrol.


Funny, it's a common theme with you all. Seems you enjoy writing the word...lie.  It seems you just can't avoid them!


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah the review of the video shows lavoy was shot before his hnda sropped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar. He put his hands down and was reaching in his jacket.
Click to expand...

See what I mean!! There's that word again. The libturd favorite... Liar


----------



## Old Rocks

Not in regard to people like you. You make it so easy.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah the review of the video shows lavoy was shot before his hnda sropped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar. He put his hands down and was reaching in his jacket.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See what I mean!! There's that word again. The libturd favorite... Liar
Click to expand...



Liar.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Staidhup said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it interesting in that the video produced and eyewitness account repudiates justification for the shooting. On the other hand I see those of the liberal persuasion applauding the shooting. Ironically if the victim was black their would be cries of murder, profiling, and chants proclaiming black lives mater. The key question that remains unanswered is documentation as to what was said by the officers and what was said by the victim, and if in fact he was shot in the back.
> 
> 
> 
> That question was answered. Finicum, who believed the FBI was going to shoot him, shouted something to the effect of, _just shoot me then. Is this what you want? Just shoot me!_ And in an append suicide by cop, reached for his gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And shot without a weapon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says otherwise and you have no proof to the contrary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a video and there was no weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video doesn't prove he was unarmed any more than it proves he wasn't wearing socks.
> 
> The FBI says they found a gun on him, they found more guns in the vehicle, and at least one of those apprehended can be seen tossing their weapon down.
> 
> Why on G-d's green Earth would I believe a rightie lunatic like you over law enforcement??
> 
> _<smh>_
Click to expand...

Hahahaha maybe he wasn't wearing socks either!


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we supposed to take the word of someone that has repeatedly posted lies on an anonymous message board over that of the FBI and the Oregon State Patrol.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, it's a common theme with you all. Seems you enjoy writing the word...lie.  It seems you just can't avoid them!
Click to expand...

This is a very long thread, over 3365 posts, and the poster in question has been caught lying repeatedly. That means over and over and over. Like, pathological and habitual kind of lying. It gets to be annoying after a while.
She has also been particularly vile and foul with her name calling and insulting.


----------



## jc456

Carla_Danger said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah the review of the video shows lavoy was shot before his hnda sropped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liar. He put his hands down and was reaching in his jacket.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See what I mean!! There's that word again. The libturd favorite... Liar
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Liar.
Click to expand...

There you go


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we supposed to take the word of someone that has repeatedly posted lies on an anonymous message board over that of the FBI and the Oregon State Patrol.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, it's a common theme with you all. Seems you enjoy writing the word...lie.  It seems you just can't avoid them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a very long thread, over 3365 posts, and the poster in question has been caught lying repeatedly. That means over and over and over. Like, pathological and habitual kind of lying. It gets to be annoying after a while.
> She has also been particularly vile and foul with her name calling and insulting.
Click to expand...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

"Assholes making trouble in Oregon"

Not any more; other domestic terrorists should take note.


----------



## jc456

Arianrhod said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
Click to expand...

Sure as soon as the audio is released.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we supposed to take the word of someone that has repeatedly posted lies on an anonymous message board over that of the FBI and the Oregon State Patrol.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, it's a common theme with you all. Seems you enjoy writing the word...lie.  It seems you just can't avoid them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a very long thread, over 3365 posts, and the poster in question has been caught lying repeatedly. That means over and over and over. Like, pathological and habitual kind of lying. It gets to be annoying after a while.
> She has also been particularly vile and foul with her name calling and insulting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Click to expand...

Left  you speechless. Don't you feel stupid? You should. You are in public fool.


----------



## jc456

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> "Assholes making trouble in Oregon"
> 
> Not any more; other domestic terrorists should take note.


Yeah, the government took out an old fart who sat in a refuge office. Not threatening anyone. The heck with the fourteen who died In San Bernardino from the illegal visa entry


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we supposed to take the word of someone that has repeatedly posted lies on an anonymous message board over that of the FBI and the Oregon State Patrol.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, it's a common theme with you all. Seems you enjoy writing the word...lie.  It seems you just can't avoid them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a very long thread, over 3365 posts, and the poster in question has been caught lying repeatedly. That means over and over and over. Like, pathological and habitual kind of lying. It gets to be annoying after a while.
> She has also been particularly vile and foul with her name calling and insulting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Left  you speechless. Don't you feel stupid? You should. You are in public fool.
Click to expand...

You did? Hmmm, I'm still talking! Try again


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> Not in regard to people like you. You make it so easy.


And yet here you are, funny


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
Click to expand...

How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are we supposed to take the word of someone that has repeatedly posted lies on an anonymous message board over that of the FBI and the Oregon State Patrol.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, it's a common theme with you all. Seems you enjoy writing the word...lie.  It seems you just can't avoid them!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is a very long thread, over 3365 posts, and the poster in question has been caught lying repeatedly. That means over and over and over. Like, pathological and habitual kind of lying. It gets to be annoying after a while.
> She has also been particularly vile and foul with her name calling and insulting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Left  you speechless. Don't you feel stupid? You should. You are in public fool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did? Hmmm, I'm still talking! Try again
Click to expand...

Ya, for a little bit. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz is not a word knucklehead. And you didn't say anything in this post except for some nothingness. It's going on 9 minutes for you to have a comeback. Let's see how long it takes for you to come up with something that isn't just plain goofy and stupid.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
Click to expand...

What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, it's a common theme with you all. Seems you enjoy writing the word...lie.  It seems you just can't avoid them!
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very long thread, over 3365 posts, and the poster in question has been caught lying repeatedly. That means over and over and over. Like, pathological and habitual kind of lying. It gets to be annoying after a while.
> She has also been particularly vile and foul with her name calling and insulting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Left  you speechless. Don't you feel stupid? You should. You are in public fool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You did? Hmmm, I'm still talking! Try again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya, for a little bit. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz is not a word knucklehead. And you didn't say anything in this post except for some nothingness.
Click to expand...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, it's a state of being! It's when one is tired. Look it up.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
Click to expand...

It does if I have a link to the witness statement from inside the car. Ya, he had a weapon when he jumped out of the vehicle.


----------



## Old Rocks

Doesn't matter how many witnesses one has, jc will continue to lie about it. That is just jc.


----------



## 12icer

Liberal ignorance, and complete indoctrination. Simple as that. Nothing you post can be verified except by taking the word of the people who kill more innocent people in a day than all of the guns in the country do in a month. Really intellectual of you.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jc456 said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Assholes making trouble in Oregon"
> 
> Not any more; other domestic terrorists should take note.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, the government took out an old fart who sat in a refuge office. Not threatening anyone. The heck with the fourteen who died In San Bernardino from the illegal visa entry
Click to expand...



Well, at least you're now comparing them to terrorist. That's a start.


----------



## Camp

12icer said:


> Liberal ignorance, and complete indoctrination. Simple as that. Nothing you post can be verified except by taking the word of the people who kill more innocent people in a day than all of the guns in the country do in a month. Really intellectual of you.


Certainly evidence and witness statement are verification. The witness was a comrade and passenger in the car with the dead guy. A trusted member of the inner leadership circle. You're just butthurt thinking that your bullshit is collapsing as the folks in jail start that squealing.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> I have been off topic in response to questions  or off-topic statements  made by others here. Faun just lately. She seems determined to excuse the inexcusable in that POS coward Kerry.


LOL

That _"POS coward"_ earned a Silver Star and a Bronze Star with Combat "V" for heroism.

... you ... ?


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?


Yes, the FBI and Oregon State Police.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not any more than I just did. I can't tell enough from the video (no sound and long range) to tell one way or another. One of the women in the truck was making these allegations. I did note what appeared to be a bullet strike near the front passenger side wheel well after LaVoy was  down around the time the flash-bang grenades went off (still wondering why those were used).
Click to expand...

She didn't assert the allegations you are making. You appear confused. When she (Shauna Cox) said he put his head and hands out of the window, she was talking about Ryan Payne, not LeVoy Finicum. When she said he got out of the car in an effort to protect the women, she was again talking about Payne, who was the first to exit that vehicle. Again, not Finicum as you wrongly suggest.

When she said he lowered his hands before being shot, she was talking about Finicum at that point but she also said they (the ones still in the vehicle) were hunkered down by the floorboards; so she didn't actually see Finicum get shot.

Don't you think it would be wise for you to bone up on the facts before spewing your idiocies? If for no other reason, so that readers here could believe you at least of some small amount of knowledge about that of which you spew.


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not any more than I just did. I can't tell enough from the video (no sound and long range) to tell one way or another. One of the women in the truck was making these allegations. I did note what appeared to be a bullet strike near the front passenger side wheel well after LaVoy was  down around the time the flash-bang grenades went off (still wondering why those were used).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She didn't assert the allegations you are making. You appear confused. When she (Shauna Cox) said he put his head and hands out of the window, she was talking about Ryan Payne, not LeVoy Finicum. When she said he got out of the car in an effort to protect the women, she was again talking about Payne, who was the first to exit that vehicle. Again, not Finicum as you wrongly suggest.
> 
> When she said he lowered his hands before being shot, she was talking about Finicum at that point but she also said they (the ones still in the vehicle) were hunkered down by the floorboards; so she didn't actually see Finicum get shot.
> 
> Don't you think it would be wise for you to bone up on the facts before spewing your idiocies? If for no other reason, so that readers here could believe you at least of some small amount of knowledge about that of which you spew.
Click to expand...

She said she was onthe floornoards, looking out the window. She said she a solutely saw him get shot, and his ha ds were up. You dont haveto lie, but you seem to enjoy it.


----------



## koshergrl

And anybody who saw the tape saw him get shot with his hand up as well. They also saw him point at the shooter.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> That question was answered. Finicum, who believed the FBI was going to shoot him, shouted something to the effect of, _just shoot me then. Is this what you want? Just shoot me!_ And in an append suicide by cop, reached for his gun.
> 
> 
> 
> And shot without a weapon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says otherwise and you have no proof to the contrary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have a video and there was no weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video doesn't prove he was unarmed any more than it proves he wasn't wearing socks.
> 
> The FBI says they found a gun on him, they found more guns in the vehicle, and at least one of those apprehended can be seen tossing their weapon down.
> 
> Why on G-d's green Earth would I believe a rightie lunatic like you over law enforcement??
> 
> _<smh>_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hahahaha maybe he wasn't wearing socks either!
Click to expand...

Maybe he wasn't. The video doesn't reveal it. Which is why you look like an idiot claiming he wasn't armed because you don't see a gun on a fuzzy video shot from the air.


----------



## 12icer

WELL Camp!!! Boo Hoo booger eating crying baby HOO, But +++Not really I just do not like liberal idiots presuming they have any idea what really happened at this event, and I really don't give a ratsass if the whole damn bunch killed each other. I just like the almighty liberal (intellectuals in their own mind) try to prove they are anything but egotistic, intellectually lacking, Hypocrites that can not follow a multiplanic event except by following the dot their indoctrinator bounces for them in a monoplanic chant.


----------



## Camp

12icer said:


> WELL Camp!!! Boo Hoo booger eating crying baby HOO, But +++Not really I just do not like liberal idiots presuming they have any idea what really happened at this event, and I really don't give a ratsass if the whole damn bunch killed each other. I just like the almighty liberal (intellectuals in their own mind) try to prove they are anything but egotistic, intellectually lacking, Hypocrites that can not follow a multiplanic event except by following the dot their indoctrinator bounces for them in a monoplanic chant.


You sound like an abnormally disturbed individual, not to intelligent and obsessed with yourself. Most here are suggesting and clearly only speculating what happened. It is the right wing  extremist like yourself who are insisting they have the answer and presenting their speculations as fact. Now go take your medication and come back if it has calmed your goofy self down.


----------



## Camp

oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/shawna_cox_refuge_occupier_des.html

Shawna Cox statements about Slow Draw Festus demanding the cops to shoot him.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not any more than I just did. I can't tell enough from the video (no sound and long range) to tell one way or another. One of the women in the truck was making these allegations. I did note what appeared to be a bullet strike near the front passenger side wheel well after LaVoy was  down around the time the flash-bang grenades went off (still wondering why those were used).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She didn't assert the allegations you are making. You appear confused. When she (Shauna Cox) said he put his head and hands out of the window, she was talking about Ryan Payne, not LeVoy Finicum. When she said he got out of the car in an effort to protect the women, she was again talking about Payne, who was the first to exit that vehicle. Again, not Finicum as you wrongly suggest.
> 
> When she said he lowered his hands before being shot, she was talking about Finicum at that point but she also said they (the ones still in the vehicle) were hunkered down by the floorboards; so she didn't actually see Finicum get shot.
> 
> Don't you think it would be wise for you to bone up on the facts before spewing your idiocies? If for no other reason, so that readers here could believe you at least of some small amount of knowledge about that of which you spew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She said she was onthe floornoards, looking out the window. She said she a solutely saw him get shot, and his ha ds were up. You dont haveto lie, but you seem to enjoy it.
Click to expand...

You're a fucking idiot. 

She said they were down "as low as they could get" because the police were shooting out their windows.

Have you any pride at all??


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> And anybody who saw the tape saw him get shot with his hand up as well. They also saw him point at the shooter.


Spits the idiot who just got busted lying about Shauna Cox watching Lavoy Finicum get shot.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
Click to expand...

That's not actually a fact you can prove.


----------



## Vandalshandle

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not any more than I just did. I can't tell enough from the video (no sound and long range) to tell one way or another. One of the women in the truck was making these allegations. I did note what appeared to be a bullet strike near the front passenger side wheel well after LaVoy was  down around the time the flash-bang grenades went off (still wondering why those were used).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She didn't assert the allegations you are making. You appear confused. When she (Shauna Cox) said he put his head and hands out of the window, she was talking about Ryan Payne, not LeVoy Finicum. When she said he got out of the car in an effort to protect the women, she was again talking about Payne, who was the first to exit that vehicle. Again, not Finicum as you wrongly suggest.
> 
> When she said he lowered his hands before being shot, she was talking about Finicum at that point but she also said they (the ones still in the vehicle) were hunkered down by the floorboards; so she didn't actually see Finicum get shot.
> 
> Don't you think it would be wise for you to bone up on the facts before spewing your idiocies? If for no other reason, so that readers here could believe you at least of some small amount of knowledge about that of which you spew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She said she was onthe floornoards, looking out the window. She said she a solutely saw him get shot, and his ha ds were up. You dont haveto lie, but you seem to enjoy it.
Click to expand...


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not any more than I just did. I can't tell enough from the video (no sound and long range) to tell one way or another. One of the women in the truck was making these allegations. I did note what appeared to be a bullet strike near the front passenger side wheel well after LaVoy was  down around the time the flash-bang grenades went off (still wondering why those were used).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She didn't assert the allegations you are making. You appear confused. When she (Shauna Cox) said he put his head and hands out of the window, she was talking about Ryan Payne, not LeVoy Finicum. When she said he got out of the car in an effort to protect the women, she was again talking about Payne, who was the first to exit that vehicle. Again, not Finicum as you wrongly suggest.
> 
> When she said he lowered his hands before being shot, she was talking about Finicum at that point but she also said they (the ones still in the vehicle) were hunkered down by the floorboards; so she didn't actually see Finicum get shot.
> 
> Don't you think it would be wise for you to bone up on the facts before spewing your idiocies? If for no other reason, so that readers here could believe you at least of some small amount of knowledge about that of which you spew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She said she was onthe floornoards, looking out the window. She said she a solutely saw him get shot, and his ha ds were up. You dont haveto lie, but you seem to enjoy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're a fucking idiot.
> 
> She said they were down "as low as they could get" because the police were shooting out their windows.
> 
> Have you any pride at all??
Click to expand...

. Oh here we go when the idiots pretend they have some special insight into the technicalities of the situation. Presumably there was some moving around. And yes, you can lay on the floorboards and still look out the windows, you retard...which is exactly what the SHARP girl said she did.


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And anybody who saw the tape saw him get shot with his hand up as well. They also saw him point at the shooter.
> 
> 
> 
> Spits the idiot who just got busted lying about Shauna Cox watching Lavoy Finicum get shot.
Click to expand...

Nope, I was talking about the Sharp girl.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not any more than I just did. I can't tell enough from the video (no sound and long range) to tell one way or another. One of the women in the truck was making these allegations. I did note what appeared to be a bullet strike near the front passenger side wheel well after LaVoy was  down around the time the flash-bang grenades went off (still wondering why those were used).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She didn't assert the allegations you are making. You appear confused. When she (Shauna Cox) said he put his head and hands out of the window, she was talking about Ryan Payne, not LeVoy Finicum. When she said he got out of the car in an effort to protect the women, she was again talking about Payne, who was the first to exit that vehicle. Again, not Finicum as you wrongly suggest.
> 
> When she said he lowered his hands before being shot, she was talking about Finicum at that point but she also said they (the ones still in the vehicle) were hunkered down by the floorboards; so she didn't actually see Finicum get shot.
> 
> Don't you think it would be wise for you to bone up on the facts before spewing your idiocies? If for no other reason, so that readers here could believe you at least of some small amount of knowledge about that of which you spew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She said she was onthe floornoards, looking out the window. She said she a solutely saw him get shot, and his ha ds were up. You dont haveto lie, but you seem to enjoy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're a fucking idiot.
> 
> She said they were down "as low as they could get" because the police were shooting out their windows.
> 
> Have you any pride at all??
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . Oh here we go when the idiots pretend they have some special insight into the technicalities of the situation. Presumably there was some moving around. And yes, you can lay on the floorboards and still look out the windows, you retard...which is exactly what the SHARP girl said she did.
Click to expand...

She wasn't looking out the window. What the fuck is wrong with you? I gave you a link to listen to her own words. She said she was on the floor of the car, "cowering" her head as low is it could go because the police were shooting in the windows.  You're a special kind of retarded to think someone is going to be staring out of a window they believe is being shot in.



I get that you're embarrassed by all the shit you've been posting and so it's vital for you to believe Finicum was murdered by law enforcement, but have some pride.  You're now claim Cox was looking out of a window when she says she wasn't.

You're fucking deranged.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And anybody who saw the tape saw him get shot with his hand up as well. They also saw him point at the shooter.
> 
> 
> 
> Spits the idiot who just got busted lying about Shauna Cox watching Lavoy Finicum get shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, I was talking about the Sharp girl.
Click to expand...

Your dementia worsens...

*Faun: *_ When she (*Shauna Cox*) said...

*koshergrl: **She* said she was onthe floornoards, looking out the window.

*koshergrl: *I was talking about the Sharp girl._​


----------



## 12icer

341 page to push same gubmnt talkin point, hitler would be proud. HA


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not any more than I just did. I can't tell enough from the video (no sound and long range) to tell one way or another. One of the women in the truck was making these allegations. I did note what appeared to be a bullet strike near the front passenger side wheel well after LaVoy was  down around the time the flash-bang grenades went off (still wondering why those were used).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She didn't assert the allegations you are making. You appear confused. When she (Shauna Cox) said he put his head and hands out of the window, she was talking about Ryan Payne, not LeVoy Finicum. When she said he got out of the car in an effort to protect the women, she was again talking about Payne, who was the first to exit that vehicle. Again, not Finicum as you wrongly suggest.
> 
> When she said he lowered his hands before being shot, she was talking about Finicum at that point but she also said they (the ones still in the vehicle) were hunkered down by the floorboards; so she didn't actually see Finicum get shot.
> 
> Don't you think it would be wise for you to bone up on the facts before spewing your idiocies? If for no other reason, so that readers here could believe you at least of some small amount of knowledge about that of which you spew.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> She said she was onthe floornoards, looking out the window. She said she a solutely saw him get shot, and his ha ds were up. You dont haveto lie, but you seem to enjoy it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're a fucking idiot.
> 
> She said they were down "as low as they could get" because the police were shooting out their windows.
> 
> Have you any pride at all??
Click to expand...

You realize Im talking about the Sharp girl, right?


----------



## OldLady

Four people left, still going strong, but LE seems to have managed to cut off their internet/phone service.  Could get eerie.  Let's hope for a resolution with no more deaths.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
Click to expand...

sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.

If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
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> jc456 said:
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> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
Click to expand...

The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does if I have a link to the witness statement from inside the car. Ya, he had a weapon when he jumped out of the vehicle.
Click to expand...

and yet you didn't post your link, hmmmmmmm


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

* Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *



 By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> 
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
Click to expand...

so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> * Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *
> 
> 
> 
> By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire


how long did it take the goberment to do that?  funny.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

jc456 said:


> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.



Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It does if I have a link to the witness statement from inside the car. Ya, he had a weapon when he jumped out of the vehicle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> and yet you didn't post your link, hmmmmmmm
Click to expand...

Did 2. Posted it last night after you ran away.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Heavily armed Right wing grunting pigs commit crimes and get shot...oh well...........shit happens*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Finnicum was living off tax payers .....


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> 
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
Click to expand...

Shawna Cox, his comrade who was in the car when he tried to run the Oregon Trooper over says he had his 9mm and the coppers said he had one on him. You have to prove they are all lying. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence and eyewithnesses say he had a gun in the exact place he was reaching for.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
Click to expand...

yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.

the old guy in Oregon, nope.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> 
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shawna Cox, his comrade who was in the car when he tried to run the Oregon Trooper over says he had his 9mm and the coppers said he had one on him. You have to prove they are all lying. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence and eyewithnesses say he had a gun in the exact place he was reaching for.
Click to expand...

dude, I don't care where it was, it wasn't in his hand, he posed no threat as he had his hands in the air.  And until they release the audio, I will say he was shot with his hands in the air.


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
Click to expand...



hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case 

but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case 

someone sounds like a hypocrite at best


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> 
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shawna Cox, his comrade who was in the car when he tried to run the Oregon Trooper over says he had his 9mm and the coppers said he had one on him. You have to prove they are all lying. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence and eyewithnesses say he had a gun in the exact place he was reaching for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care where it was, it wasn't in his hand, he posed no threat as he had his hands in the air.  And until they release the audio, I will say he was shot with his hands in the air.
Click to expand...


so will i


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Heavily armed Right wing grunting pigs commit crimes and get shot...oh well...........shit happens*


dude, again, i give two shits the old dude got shot.  Really, I have stated over and over the hyposcricy of the left libturds calling it justified.  that's all.  And so far, it is much less justified than the Ferguson, Baltimore and Chicago shoots.  the guy in Chicago had a knife in his hand that he whipped out right before he was shot.  the dude in Ferguson had the cops own gun for a moment.  And you all are blasting the cops.  Dude it is a hypocritical to call that justified if you don't believe the cop shoots were good in the other incidents.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> 
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shawna Cox, his comrade who was in the car when he tried to run the Oregon Trooper over says he had his 9mm and the coppers said he had one on him. You have to prove they are all lying. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence and eyewithnesses say he had a gun in the exact place he was reaching for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care where it was, it wasn't in his hand, he posed no threat as he had his hands in the air.  And until they release the audio, I will say he was shot with his hands in the air.
Click to expand...

If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. Try to run down a trooper and you better freeze and not move a muscle and follow instructions to the letter. Fuck that jumping out of the vehicle and walking away crap or playing some silly game. That dude wanted to be a martyr. He committed suicide by cop.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> 
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shawna Cox, his comrade who was in the car when he tried to run the Oregon Trooper over says he had his 9mm and the coppers said he had one on him. You have to prove they are all lying. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence and eyewithnesses say he had a gun in the exact place he was reaching for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care where it was, it wasn't in his hand, he posed no threat as he had his hands in the air.  And until they release the audio, I will say he was shot with his hands in the air.
Click to expand...

You said he didn't have a gun on him. Now you are back peddling and saying it wasn't in his hand. You think the cops should have waited till be pulled his weapon and not shot him while he was grabbing for it.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> 
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shawna Cox, his comrade who was in the car when he tried to run the Oregon Trooper over says he had his 9mm and the coppers said he had one on him. You have to prove they are all lying. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence and eyewithnesses say he had a gun in the exact place he was reaching for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care where it was, it wasn't in his hand, he posed no threat as he had his hands in the air.  And until they release the audio, I will say he was shot with his hands in the air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. Try to run down a trooper and you better freeze and not move a muscle and follow instructions to the letter. Fuck that jumping out of the vehicle and walking away crap or playing some silly game. That dude wanted to be a martyr. He committed suicide by cop.
Click to expand...


*If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. *

but that is just you right --LOL

but you would have restrained yourself when mike brown was coming in through the window 

pounding you and trying to take your gun 

hands up dont shoot


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shawna Cox, his comrade who was in the car when he tried to run the Oregon Trooper over says he had his 9mm and the coppers said he had one on him. You have to prove they are all lying. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence and eyewithnesses say he had a gun in the exact place he was reaching for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care where it was, it wasn't in his hand, he posed no threat as he had his hands in the air.  And until they release the audio, I will say he was shot with his hands in the air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. Try to run down a trooper and you better freeze and not move a muscle and follow instructions to the letter. Fuck that jumping out of the vehicle and walking away crap or playing some silly game. That dude wanted to be a martyr. He committed suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. *
> 
> but that is just you right --LOL
> 
> but you would have restrained yourself when mike brown was coming in through the window
> 
> pounding you and trying to take your gun
> 
> hands up dont shoot
Click to expand...

No, I would have shot him too. I am not a cop and don't think I have the temperament to be one.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

jc456 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Heavily armed Right wing grunting pigs commit crimes and get shot...oh well...........shit happens*
> 
> 
> 
> dude, again, i give two shits the old dude got shot.  Really, I have stated over and over the hyposcricy of the left libturds calling it justified.  that's all.  And so far, it is much less justified than the Ferguson, Baltimore and Chicago shoots.  the guy in Chicago had a knife in his hand that he whipped out right before he was shot.  the dude in Ferguson had the cops own gun for a moment.  And you all are blasting the cops.  Dude it is a hypocritical to call that justified if you don't believe the cop shoots were good in the other incidents.
Click to expand...

*You are a fucking Right wing whinny joke...you approve any fucking Police shooting of Blacks any God Dam shooting of Blacks and shit heads like you have orgasms ..fuck, you right wing shit...*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
Click to expand...

Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Tamir Rice a little boy in the park was a threat...but the right wing thug seen on TV threatening to shoot and not be taken alive oh that guy was an Innocent victim...WTF people?*


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Heavily armed Right wing grunting pigs commit crimes and get shot...oh well...........shit happens*
> 
> 
> 
> dude, again, i give two shits the old dude got shot.  Really, I have stated over and over the hyposcricy of the left libturds calling it justified.  that's all.  And so far, it is much less justified than the Ferguson, Baltimore and Chicago shoots.  the guy in Chicago had a knife in his hand that he whipped out right before he was shot.  the dude in Ferguson had the cops own gun for a moment.  And you all are blasting the cops.  Dude it is a hypocritical to call that justified if you don't believe the cop shoots were good in the other incidents.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You are a fucking Right wing whinny joke...you approve any fucking Police shooting of Blacks any God Dam shooting of Blacks and shit heads like you have orgasms ..fuck, you right wing shit...*
Click to expand...

no I approve of shooting criminals, I don't care the color of their skin.  You obviously do.  That makes you a racist.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Tamir Rice a little boy in the park was a threat...but the right wing thug seen on TV threatening to shoot and not be taken alive oh that guy was an Innocent victim...WTF people?*


anybody waving a gun is a threat, or do you have another term for it?  The people in the area thought it was a threat they called the cops.  What do you call someone waving a gun around in public? Mardi-Gras? Pin the tail on the donkey?


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
Click to expand...

profile much?  LOL you hypocrites crack me up.  You just show more and more the rhetoric you spew is all yours.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> Shawna Cox, his comrade who was in the car when he tried to run the Oregon Trooper over says he had his 9mm and the coppers said he had one on him. You have to prove they are all lying. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence and eyewithnesses say he had a gun in the exact place he was reaching for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care where it was, it wasn't in his hand, he posed no threat as he had his hands in the air.  And until they release the audio, I will say he was shot with his hands in the air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. Try to run down a trooper and you better freeze and not move a muscle and follow instructions to the letter. Fuck that jumping out of the vehicle and walking away crap or playing some silly game. That dude wanted to be a martyr. He committed suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. *
> 
> but that is just you right --LOL
> 
> but you would have restrained yourself when mike brown was coming in through the window
> 
> pounding you and trying to take your gun
> 
> hands up dont shoot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I would have shot him too. I am not a cop and don't think I have the temperament to be one.
Click to expand...

so you call it a justified shoot?  And the people who burned the business and tax payer cop cars were also criminals?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Burns, Oregon has suffered terribly from the invasion of out-of-state terrorists led by Ammon Bundy*. Bundy unleashed an insurrection against the federal government by taking over the *Malheur National Wildlife Refuge *in early January. However, the town is the real victim of the crime.

The heavily-armed insurrection attracted a disparate group of so-called “patriots”, many of whom had their own agenda and four of whom continue to occupy the refuge that belongs, not to them, but to the public. Bundy, sitting in a jail cell, has made *two pleas* to these misguided renegades to leave the refuge — but he is powerless to end the devastation that he began with his own call to lawlessness.

The four holdouts shift in their increasingly outrageous demands as the FBI tries to negotiate their departure. First, they wanted safe passage, with no one leaving in handcuffs. Then they wanted charges from 2014, pending in another state, to be cleared from the record of one of their band, Sean Anderson. Anderson reportedly has an extensive *criminal record*.

On Friday, the demands escalated. In a live feed, one the four, *David Fry* said:

*“Before we leave, every single one of the people involved in this operation should be pardoned.”*

*Burns is torn apart as the ridiculous demands increase*
As this ridiculousness goes on, Burns continues to be torn apart.
*Ammon Bundy's Victim: Burns, Oregon Not The Federal Government*


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Burns, Oregon has suffered terribly from the invasion of out-of-state terrorists led by Ammon Bundy*. Bundy unleashed an insurrection against the federal government by taking over the *Malheur National Wildlife Refuge *in early January. However, the town is the real victim of the crime.
> 
> The heavily-armed insurrection attracted a disparate group of so-called “patriots”, many of whom had their own agenda and four of whom continue to occupy the refuge that belongs, not to them, but to the public. Bundy, sitting in a jail cell, has made *two pleas* to these misguided renegades to leave the refuge — but he is powerless to end the devastation that he began with his own call to lawlessness.
> 
> The four holdouts shift in their increasingly outrageous demands as the FBI tries to negotiate their departure. First, they wanted safe passage, with no one leaving in handcuffs. Then they wanted charges from 2014, pending in another state, to be cleared from the record of one of their band, Sean Anderson. Anderson reportedly has an extensive *criminal record*.
> 
> On Friday, the demands escalated. In a live feed, one the four, *David Fry* said:
> 
> *“Before we leave, every single one of the people involved in this operation should be pardoned.”*
> 
> *Burns is torn apart as the ridiculous demands increase*
> As this ridiculousness goes on, Burns continues to be torn apart.
> *Ammon Bundy's Victim: Burns, Oregon Not The Federal Government*


so I think it was the government responsible for the manner in which they dealt with the Hammonds.  I think the towns folk didn't appreciate the way that was all handled.  I'm just saying, the root cause and trigger was the gobberment.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> 
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
Click to expand...

 No, they shot him while his hands were in the air. Then his hands came down. Then they shot him some more.


----------



## koshergrl

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Burns, Oregon has suffered terribly from the invasion of out-of-state terrorists led by Ammon Bundy*. Bundy unleashed an insurrection against the federal government by taking over the *Malheur National Wildlife Refuge *in early January. However, the town is the real victim of the crime.
> 
> The heavily-armed insurrection attracted a disparate group of so-called “patriots”, many of whom had their own agenda and four of whom continue to occupy the refuge that belongs, not to them, but to the public. Bundy, sitting in a jail cell, has made *two pleas* to these misguided renegades to leave the refuge — but he is powerless to end the devastation that he began with his own call to lawlessness.
> 
> The four holdouts shift in their increasingly outrageous demands as the FBI tries to negotiate their departure. First, they wanted safe passage, with no one leaving in handcuffs. Then they wanted charges from 2014, pending in another state, to be cleared from the record of one of their band, Sean Anderson. Anderson reportedly has an extensive *criminal record*.
> 
> On Friday, the demands escalated. In a live feed, one the four, *David Fry* said:
> 
> *“Before we leave, every single one of the people involved in this operation should be pardoned.”*
> 
> *Burns is torn apart as the ridiculous demands increase*
> As this ridiculousness goes on, Burns continues to be torn apart.
> *Ammon Bundy's Victim: Burns, Oregon Not The Federal Government*


 
Who gives a shit about the government housing project called "Burns"?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> Who gives a shit about the government housing project called "Burns"?




I care for my fellow Americans who live in Burns Oregon...yeah they are my compatriots facing difficult economic times and I surely have sympathies for them and why not "its the Christian thing" to do


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> 
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they shot him while his hands were in the air. Then his hands came down. Then they shot him some more.
Click to expand...

No one is able to determine that from the video. Maybe that is why you consistently get the stories wrong. You are not able to separate speculative subjective information from objective facts. You form an opinion and insist your opinion is fact instead of just your opinion.


----------



## ogibillm

koshergrl said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Burns, Oregon has suffered terribly from the invasion of out-of-state terrorists led by Ammon Bundy*. Bundy unleashed an insurrection against the federal government by taking over the *Malheur National Wildlife Refuge *in early January. However, the town is the real victim of the crime.
> 
> The heavily-armed insurrection attracted a disparate group of so-called “patriots”, many of whom had their own agenda and four of whom continue to occupy the refuge that belongs, not to them, but to the public. Bundy, sitting in a jail cell, has made *two pleas* to these misguided renegades to leave the refuge — but he is powerless to end the devastation that he began with his own call to lawlessness.
> 
> The four holdouts shift in their increasingly outrageous demands as the FBI tries to negotiate their departure. First, they wanted safe passage, with no one leaving in handcuffs. Then they wanted charges from 2014, pending in another state, to be cleared from the record of one of their band, Sean Anderson. Anderson reportedly has an extensive *criminal record*.
> 
> On Friday, the demands escalated. In a live feed, one the four, *David Fry* said:
> 
> *“Before we leave, every single one of the people involved in this operation should be pardoned.”*
> 
> *Burns is torn apart as the ridiculous demands increase*
> As this ridiculousness goes on, Burns continues to be torn apart.
> *Ammon Bundy's Victim: Burns, Oregon Not The Federal Government*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who gives a shit about the government housing project called "Burns"?
Click to expand...

wait, can't we go back to the beginning of this thread abd see all kinds of posts from you about how you're from the area and know the people there and they all agree and want the terrorists there?


----------



## OldLady

You're confusing us, KosherGirl.  What's up?


----------



## ogibillm

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> 
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they shot him while his hands were in the air. Then his hands came down. Then they shot him some more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is able to determine that from the video. Maybe that is why you consistently get the stories wrong. You are not able to separate speculative subjective information from objective facts. You form an opinion and insist your opinion is fact instead of just your opinion.
Click to expand...

i can. why would they pause in the shooting? why fire once and leave him standing?

the claim that his arms cane down because of a gunshot are bullshit


----------



## jc456

ogibillm said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> 
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they shot him while his hands were in the air. Then his hands came down. Then they shot him some more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is able to determine that from the video. Maybe that is why you consistently get the stories wrong. You are not able to separate speculative subjective information from objective facts. You form an opinion and insist your opinion is fact instead of just your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can. why would they pause in the shooting? why fire once and leave him standing?
> 
> the claim that his arms cane down because of a gunshot are bullshit
Click to expand...

they paused because he didn't go down on the first shot.  They were going to end it with one bullet, and he didn't go down, so then they both shot him.  That's why the pause.


----------



## ogibillm

jc456 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> 
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they shot him while his hands were in the air. Then his hands came down. Then they shot him some more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is able to determine that from the video. Maybe that is why you consistently get the stories wrong. You are not able to separate speculative subjective information from objective facts. You form an opinion and insist your opinion is fact instead of just your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can. why would they pause in the shooting? why fire once and leave him standing?
> 
> the claim that his arms cane down because of a gunshot are bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they paused because he didn't go down on the first shot.  They were going to end it with one bullet, and he didn't go down, so then they both shot him.  That's why the pause.
Click to expand...

right. all those single-shot police shootings you hear about lend credence to that 'theory'


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*If the FBI thought it did  something wrong they would have stalled releasing the video saying over and over "there is an active Investigation ongoing"  and so we cannot release it...if they released it its because they think they did no wrong....*


----------



## Camp

ogibillm said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> 
> 
> No, they shot him while his hands were in the air. Then his hands came down. Then they shot him some more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is able to determine that from the video. Maybe that is why you consistently get the stories wrong. You are not able to separate speculative subjective information from objective facts. You form an opinion and insist your opinion is fact instead of just your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can. why would they pause in the shooting? why fire once and leave him standing?
> 
> the claim that his arms cane down because of a gunshot are bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they paused because he didn't go down on the first shot.  They were going to end it with one bullet, and he didn't go down, so then they both shot him.  That's why the pause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right. all those single-shot police shootings you hear about lend credence to that 'theory'
Click to expand...

Yes, they ignored the heavy winter clothing and knowledge that a  terrorist who swore not to be taken alive wore a bulletproof vest and decided a single 9mm would take him down and make everyone safe.


----------



## mamooth

TyroneSlothrop said:


> On Friday, the demands escalated. In a live feed, one the four, *David Fry* said:



David Fry is the 27-year-old geek-dude.

How A Digital Friendship Created An Unlikely Holdout

Before this, he was literally living in Dad's basement in a Cincinnati suburb. Dad says he's not stable. Due to his preference for tech over guns, he was the odd man out among the other militants. And now that the jailed militants can't get bailed out until the standoff ends, he's even less popular.


----------



## ogibillm

Camp said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they shot him while his hands were in the air. Then his hands came down. Then they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> No one is able to determine that from the video. Maybe that is why you consistently get the stories wrong. You are not able to separate speculative subjective information from objective facts. You form an opinion and insist your opinion is fact instead of just your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can. why would they pause in the shooting? why fire once and leave him standing?
> 
> the claim that his arms cane down because of a gunshot are bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they paused because he didn't go down on the first shot.  They were going to end it with one bullet, and he didn't go down, so then they both shot him.  That's why the pause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right. all those single-shot police shootings you hear about lend credence to that 'theory'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they ignored the heavy winter clothing and knowledge that a  terrorist who swore not to be taken alive wore a bulletproof vest and decided a single 9mm would take him down and make everyone safe.
Click to expand...

right.
the police are trained in the use of deadly force, and that training means one shot and if the threat is still standing you wait for a bit before firing again. I'm sure I've read that somewhere


----------



## jc456

ogibillm said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
> 
> 
> 
> No, they shot him while his hands were in the air. Then his hands came down. Then they shot him some more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No one is able to determine that from the video. Maybe that is why you consistently get the stories wrong. You are not able to separate speculative subjective information from objective facts. You form an opinion and insist your opinion is fact instead of just your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can. why would they pause in the shooting? why fire once and leave him standing?
> 
> the claim that his arms cane down because of a gunshot are bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they paused because he didn't go down on the first shot.  They were going to end it with one bullet, and he didn't go down, so then they both shot him.  That's why the pause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right. all those single-shot police shootings you hear about lend credence to that 'theory'
Click to expand...

usually they use pistols right?  these folks used rifles.  And they weren't cops.


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *If the FBI thought it did  something wrong they would have stalled releasing the video saying over and over "there is an active Investigation ongoing"  and so we cannot release it...if they released it its because they think they did no wrong....*


good for them. BTW, it was delayed.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

mamooth said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, the demands escalated. In a live feed, one the four, *David Fry* said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Fry is the 27-year-old geek-dude.
> 
> How A Digital Friendship Created An Unlikely Holdout
> 
> Before this, he was literally living in Dad's basement in a Cincinnati suburb. Dad says he's not stable. Due to his preference for tech over guns, he was the odd man out among the other militants. And now that the jailed militants can't get bailed out until the standoff ends, he's even less popular.
Click to expand...

I hope they let the father communicate with this young man as he is in a dangerous situation ...life and death type...


----------



## jc456

ogibillm said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one is able to determine that from the video. Maybe that is why you consistently get the stories wrong. You are not able to separate speculative subjective information from objective facts. You form an opinion and insist your opinion is fact instead of just your opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> i can. why would they pause in the shooting? why fire once and leave him standing?
> 
> the claim that his arms cane down because of a gunshot are bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they paused because he didn't go down on the first shot.  They were going to end it with one bullet, and he didn't go down, so then they both shot him.  That's why the pause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right. all those single-shot police shootings you hear about lend credence to that 'theory'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they ignored the heavy winter clothing and knowledge that a  terrorist who swore not to be taken alive wore a bulletproof vest and decided a single 9mm would take him down and make everyone safe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right.
> the police are trained in the use of deadly force, and that training means one shot and if the threat is still standing you wait for a bit before firing again. I'm sure I've read that somewhere
Click to expand...

release the audio then.  Let's hear if there was a pause, maybe they missed.

The FBI's License to Kill: Agents Have Been Deemed "Justified" in Every Shooting Since 1993 | Democracy Now!


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

If you declare rebellion to the established Legal framework that is the basis of the Federal management over Western land including the Oregon preserve in question.  Further if you show up and enter the Federal buildings heavily armed proclaiming that you will defend yourself from authorities and making demands to those authorities that are in a word "unhinged".  Demands the Federal Government give up control of Western Lands to them  and vacate the legal sentences of convicted felons .  One of those men, the slain man,  Mr Finnicum vowed to not be taken alive .  If you do all of that for more than 3 weeks and then there is a confrontation with Law Enforcers .....*why the whine and cry baby marathon about the consequences ?*


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> If you declare rebellion to the established Legal framework that is the basis of the Federal management over Western land including the Oregon preserve in question.  Further if you show up and enter the Federal buildings heavily armed proclaiming that you will defend yourself from authorities and making demands to those authorities that are in a word "unhinged".  Demands the Federal Government give up control of Western Lands to them  and vacate the legal sentences of convicted felons .  One of those men, the slain man,  Mr Finnicum vowed to not be taken alive .  If you do all of that for more than 3 weeks and then there is a confrontation with Law Enforcers .....*why the whine and cry baby marathon about the consequences ?*


they never defended themselves, so that is fallacy.  they never pointed a gun at anyone ever?


----------



## Camp

Festus consistently made an ass and a fool of himself for a month on national TV trying to defend the asshole terrorist at the refuge. People view his suicide as something the fool promised. He did what he said he would do. He was a fool to the very end. To his credit, there are other fools willing to defend his right to be an asshole and fool. He has become a martyr for asshole cowboy fools.


----------



## guno

*

The bottom of the barrel white trash and mental defectives, the right wings heroes 

Broke, unemployed and on disability: Here’s how the Oregon militants can afford to play ‘patriot’ games

living on government disability checks and the earnings of their neglected wives.

Broke, unemployed and on disability: Here’s how the Oregon militants can afford to play ‘patriot’ games*


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> Festus consistently made an ass and a fool of himself for a month on national TV trying to defend the asshole terrorist at the refuge. People view his suicide as something the fool promised. He did what he said he would do. He was a fool to the very end. To his credit, there are other fools willing to defend his right to be an asshole and fool. He has become a martyr for asshole cowboy fools.


and yet he never threatened one human being. Not one.  Didn't impose his views, his wants or anything.  Not a damn ass thing did that guy do except talk a bunch of bullshit on a video.  Now that's a threat eh? A guy grabbing an officer's gun isn't a threat, but a guy on a video saying he won't be taken alive is a threat.  Well at least he kept his promise I guess.  Again, I give two shits the dude got shot, I do care that you all call it justified and the ferguson and Chicago shootings you don't.  The word "threat" is the argument here.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been off topic in response to questions  or off-topic statements  made by others here. Faun just lately. She seems determined to excuse the inexcusable in that POS coward Kerry.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> That _"POS coward"_ earned a Silver Star and a Bronze Star with Combat "V" for heroism.
> 
> ... you ... ?
Click to expand...


Nope. He was *awarded* them. He *earned* a swift court martial and firing squad.
I was there and know what I'm talking about. How about you?
High ranking officers in his chain of command agreed with me. How about you?


----------



## jc456

guno said:


> *
> The bottom of the barrel white trash, the right wings heroes
> 
> Broke, unemployed and on disability: Here’s how the Oregon militants can afford to play ‘patriot’ games
> 
> living on government disability checks and the earnings of their neglected wives.
> 
> Broke, unemployed and on disability: Here’s how the Oregon militants can afford to play ‘patriot’ games*


and?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

guno said:


> *
> The bottom of the barrel white trash, the right wings heroes
> 
> Broke, unemployed and on disability: Here’s how the Oregon militants can afford to play ‘patriot’ games
> 
> living on government disability checks and the earnings of their neglected wives.
> 
> Broke, unemployed and on disability: Here’s how the Oregon militants can afford to play ‘patriot’ games*



You care to say who you're talking about? Or is that a confession?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the FBI and Oregon State Police.
Click to expand...


Fine. Can you quote them or provide a link? Or are you just continuing talk shit?


----------



## Vandalshandle

jc456 said:


> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ogibillm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they shot him while his hands were in the air. Then his hands came down. Then they shot him some more.
> 
> 
> 
> No one is able to determine that from the video. Maybe that is why you consistently get the stories wrong. You are not able to separate speculative subjective information from objective facts. You form an opinion and insist your opinion is fact instead of just your opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i can. why would they pause in the shooting? why fire once and leave him standing?
> 
> the claim that his arms cane down because of a gunshot are bullshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they paused because he didn't go down on the first shot.  They were going to end it with one bullet, and he didn't go down, so then they both shot him.  That's why the pause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> right. all those single-shot police shootings you hear about lend credence to that 'theory'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> usually they use pistols right?  these folks used rifles.  And they weren't cops.
Click to expand...


They were CHAOS agents. CONTROL is working on the case right now.


----------



## koshergrl

OldLady said:


> You're confusing us, KosherGirl.  What's up?


 Burns is almost solely populated by employees and officials for the forest service, state police, BLM and state parks. When the mills and forests were shut down, the feds moved in. So don't assume that the virulent pro-federal, anti-protest rhetoric you hear out of Burns is accurate or even representative of rural residents. It is not. You are hearing the feds being pumped up and supported by other feds.

One of the lies they liked to share was that the protesters were intimidating and threatening people. And yet NOT ONE PERSON has been able to name who they threatened, who did the threatening, or what the threat was. The FBI put out the lie that "militia" were following people around and scaring them, vandalizing, etc. Until they got busted dressing up as militia and doing just that. Now the scuttlebutt in Burns is that it's "their" issue and everybody else (except the feds, of course) should just go home and let it blow over. The other ridiculous thing put out there is that federal $$ is the "lifeblood" of the community, because they're employed by the government.

Yeah, because the government shut down their industry and stole their resources, and they had no choice. But most of the locals either left..and what are left are jackasses who put in for jobs there and now consider themselves "locals". And some are. There are families where there are 2-3 generations of government employees (because they give jobs to their families).

You see the problem?


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arianrhod said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've no doubt seen the video.  Can you point to the times when those alleged shots were allegedly fired?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
Click to expand...

I take it this means you think you have xray vision and can see what's under his jacket and in his pockets?


----------



## Carla_Danger

They've zoomed in on the original video and it clearly shows Finicum reaching in his jacket.


FBI releases video footage of LaVoy Finicum shooting


----------



## Faun

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure as soon as the audio is released.
> 
> 
> 
> How about if one of the witnesses who was in the car and arrested claims LaVoy was demanding the cops shot him as he was reaching for his gun? How about if the witness claims he had his shoulder holster on when he jumped out of the vehicle? How about if the arrested terrorist start squealing like pigs and trapped rats?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What if? Doesn't override the fact he had no weapon when shot, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's not actually a fact you can prove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure it is, I have eyes and I can see his hands had no weapon.
> 
> If you question that, please provide the photo that has a gun in his hand.  Ok?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The shot him before he could draw. That is why he is called "Festus Slow Draw".
Click to expand...

Now he's known as dead Festus slow draw.


----------



## Faun

TyroneSlothrop said:


> * Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *
> 
> 
> 
> By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire


Damn it. That's just cruel and unusual punishment. Now how are they going to watch SpongeBob SquarePants?


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Burns, Oregon has suffered terribly from the invasion of out-of-state terrorists led by Ammon Bundy*. Bundy unleashed an insurrection against the federal government by taking over the *Malheur National Wildlife Refuge *in early January. However, the town is the real victim of the crime.
> 
> The heavily-armed insurrection attracted a disparate group of so-called “patriots”, many of whom had their own agenda and four of whom continue to occupy the refuge that belongs, not to them, but to the public. Bundy, sitting in a jail cell, has made *two pleas* to these misguided renegades to leave the refuge — but he is powerless to end the devastation that he began with his own call to lawlessness.
> 
> The four holdouts shift in their increasingly outrageous demands as the FBI tries to negotiate their departure. First, they wanted safe passage, with no one leaving in handcuffs. Then they wanted charges from 2014, pending in another state, to be cleared from the record of one of their band, Sean Anderson. Anderson reportedly has an extensive *criminal record*.
> 
> On Friday, the demands escalated. In a live feed, one the four, *David Fry* said:
> 
> *“Before we leave, every single one of the people involved in this operation should be pardoned.”*
> 
> *Burns is torn apart as the ridiculous demands increase*
> As this ridiculousness goes on, Burns continues to be torn apart.
> *Ammon Bundy's Victim: Burns, Oregon Not The Federal Government*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who gives a shit about the government housing project called "Burns"?
Click to expand...

Obviously you do not, you lying little bitch. There are a lot of very good people in Burns that have had really bad experiances in the last month because of the Bundy Militia. Personally, I give great credit to all the LEO's involved in that there was only one death in taking down the felons.
I hope everyone of them gets ten years or more to occupy a federal installation.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're confusing us, KosherGirl.  What's up?
> 
> 
> 
> Burns is almost solely populated by employees and officials for the forest service, state police, BLM and state parks. When the mills and forests were shut down, the feds moved in. So don't assume that the virulent pro-federal, anti-protest rhetoric you hear out of Burns is accurate or even representative of rural residents. It is not. You are hearing the feds being pumped up and supported by other feds.
> 
> One of the lies they liked to share was that the protesters were intimidating and threatening people. And yet NOT ONE PERSON has been able to name who they threatened, who did the threatening, or what the threat was. The FBI put out the lie that "militia" were following people around and scaring them, vandalizing, etc. Until they got busted dressing up as militia and doing just that. Now the scuttlebutt in Burns is that it's "their" issue and everybody else (except the feds, of course) should just go home and let it blow over. The other ridiculous thing put out there is that federal $$ is the "lifeblood" of the community, because they're employed by the government.
> 
> Yeah, because the government shut down their industry and stole their resources, and they had no choice. But most of the locals either left..and what are left are jackasses who put in for jobs there and now consider themselves "locals". And some are. There are families where there are 2-3 generations of government employees (because they give jobs to their families).
> 
> You see the problem?
Click to expand...

Certainly do see the problem. A lying little bitch named Kosher. The feds did not move in when the mills shut down. There were there the whole time. And there were more of them. Some of those jobs went away, also. The resources of which you speak were always on BLM, State, or Forest Service land.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Faun said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *
> 
> 
> 
> By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it. That's just cruel and unusual punishment. Now how are they going to watch SpongeBob SquarePants?
Click to expand...



You gotta watch this last dance, and grab some tissue!  LOL!

(they don't want to go to jail, they were only camping!  hahahaha!)


----------



## Carla_Danger

Look at how those losers trashed out the refuge!


----------



## Skylar

Carla_Danger said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *
> 
> 
> 
> By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it. That's just cruel and unusual punishment. Now how are they going to watch SpongeBob SquarePants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta watch this last dance, and grab some tissue!  LOL!
> 
> (they don't want to go to jail, they were only camping!  hahahaha!)
Click to expand...


See, this is all just a great American love story. A man expressing his love for another man. And his blue tarp.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Skylar said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *
> 
> 
> 
> By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it. That's just cruel and unusual punishment. Now how are they going to watch SpongeBob SquarePants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta watch this last dance, and grab some tissue!  LOL!
> 
> (they don't want to go to jail, they were only camping!  hahahaha!)
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, this is all just a great American love story. A man expressing his love for another man. And his blue tarp.
Click to expand...




The water I'm drinking just came out my nose!


----------



## Carla_Danger

Skylar said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *
> 
> 
> 
> By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it. That's just cruel and unusual punishment. Now how are they going to watch SpongeBob SquarePants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta watch this last dance, and grab some tissue!  LOL!
> 
> (they don't want to go to jail, they were only camping!  hahahaha!)
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, this is all just a great American love story. A man expressing his love for another man. And his blue tarp.
Click to expand...



Someone call Hollywood. They've got to make a movie out of this!  lol


----------



## Skylar

Carla_Danger said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *
> 
> 
> 
> By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it. That's just cruel and unusual punishment. Now how are they going to watch SpongeBob SquarePants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta watch this last dance, and grab some tissue!  LOL!
> 
> (they don't want to go to jail, they were only camping!  hahahaha!)
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, this is all just a great American love story. A man expressing his love for another man. And his blue tarp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Someone call Hollywood. They've got to make a movie out of this!  lol
Click to expand...


Maybe some indie director will pick it up and make an arthouse pic. Tarpaulin Azule: _The Constitution of the my Heart_.

Bubba: "Hold me, Vern. Help me forget that the FBI are out there in the night."

Vern: "Why can't I quit you, Bubba?"


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> Shawna Cox, his comrade who was in the car when he tried to run the Oregon Trooper over says he had his 9mm and the coppers said he had one on him. You have to prove they are all lying. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence and eyewithnesses say he had a gun in the exact place he was reaching for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care where it was, it wasn't in his hand, he posed no threat as he had his hands in the air.  And until they release the audio, I will say he was shot with his hands in the air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. Try to run down a trooper and you better freeze and not move a muscle and follow instructions to the letter. Fuck that jumping out of the vehicle and walking away crap or playing some silly game. That dude wanted to be a martyr. He committed suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. *
> 
> but that is just you right --LOL
> 
> but you would have restrained yourself when mike brown was coming in through the window
> 
> pounding you and trying to take your gun
> 
> hands up dont shoot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I would have shot him too. I am not a cop and don't think I have the temperament to be one.
Click to expand...



why is that


----------



## jon_berzerk

TyroneSlothrop said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
Click to expand...



you are a hypocrite plain and simple


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite plain and simple
Click to expand...


I'm not sure the word means what you think it means.


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> profile much?  LOL you hypocrites crack me up.  You just show more and more the rhetoric you spew is all yours.
Click to expand...


he is a racist hypocrite


----------



## jon_berzerk

Skylar said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> 
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite plain and simple
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure the word means what you think it means.
Click to expand...


you are a hypocrite yourself


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite plain and simple
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure the word means what you think it means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite yourself
Click to expand...


How so? Using the actual meaning of the word, of course. Right now you sound like Oprah giving away cars.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Skylar said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *
> 
> 
> 
> By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it. That's just cruel and unusual punishment. Now how are they going to watch SpongeBob SquarePants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta watch this last dance, and grab some tissue!  LOL!
> 
> (they don't want to go to jail, they were only camping!  hahahaha!)
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> See, this is all just a great American love story. A man expressing his love for another man. And his blue tarp.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Someone call Hollywood. They've got to make a movie out of this!  lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe some indie director will pick it up and make an arthouse pic. Tarpaulin Azule: _The Constitution of the my Heart_.
> 
> Bubba: "Hold me, Vern. Help me forget that the FBI are out there in the night."
> 
> Vern: "Why can't I quit you, Bubba?"
Click to expand...




I'm gonna miss the funny videos they put out.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Skylar said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> 
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite plain and simple
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure the word means what you think it means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite yourself
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Using the actual meaning of the word, of course. Right now you sound like Oprah giving away cars.
Click to expand...


you know why 

if you dont fuck you asshole


----------



## Camp

Those guys need to go to a state that is threatening to repel same-sex marraiges. They are protesting at the wrong place.


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite plain and simple
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not sure the word means what you think it means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite yourself
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Using the actual meaning of the word, of course. Right now you sound like Oprah giving away cars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you know why
> 
> if you dont fuck you asshole
Click to expand...


Laughing......that's what I thought. You've got jack shit. 

Try again. If you're not sure what the word means, ask a native speaker.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Jon has gone berzerk again!


----------



## jon_berzerk

Skylar said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite plain and simple
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure the word means what you think it means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite yourself
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Using the actual meaning of the word, of course. Right now you sound like Oprah giving away cars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you know why
> 
> if you dont fuck you asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing......that's what I thought. You've got jack shit.
> 
> Try again. If you're not sure what the word means, ask a native speaker.
Click to expand...


loser hypocrite


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shawna Cox, his comrade who was in the car when he tried to run the Oregon Trooper over says he had his 9mm and the coppers said he had one on him. You have to prove they are all lying. Otherwise, circumstantial evidence and eyewithnesses say he had a gun in the exact place he was reaching for.
> 
> 
> 
> dude, I don't care where it was, it wasn't in his hand, he posed no threat as he had his hands in the air.  And until they release the audio, I will say he was shot with his hands in the air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. Try to run down a trooper and you better freeze and not move a muscle and follow instructions to the letter. Fuck that jumping out of the vehicle and walking away crap or playing some silly game. That dude wanted to be a martyr. He committed suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. *
> 
> but that is just you right --LOL
> 
> but you would have restrained yourself when mike brown was coming in through the window
> 
> pounding you and trying to take your gun
> 
> hands up dont shoot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I would have shot him too. I am not a cop and don't think I have the temperament to be one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> why is that
Click to expand...

Why is what?


----------



## jon_berzerk

Carla_Danger said:


> Jon has gone berzerk again!


racist


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> dude, I don't care where it was, it wasn't in his hand, he posed no threat as he had his hands in the air.  And until they release the audio, I will say he was shot with his hands in the air.
> 
> 
> 
> If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. Try to run down a trooper and you better freeze and not move a muscle and follow instructions to the letter. Fuck that jumping out of the vehicle and walking away crap or playing some silly game. That dude wanted to be a martyr. He committed suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. *
> 
> but that is just you right --LOL
> 
> but you would have restrained yourself when mike brown was coming in through the window
> 
> pounding you and trying to take your gun
> 
> hands up dont shoot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I would have shot him too. I am not a cop and don't think I have the temperament to be one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> why is that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is what?
Click to expand...


that


----------



## Carla_Danger

jon_berzerk said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jon has gone berzerk again!
> 
> 
> 
> racist
Click to expand...




Huh....whaaaa?


----------



## jon_berzerk

Carla_Danger said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jon has gone berzerk again!
> 
> 
> 
> racist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh....whaaaa?
Click to expand...



yup you


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure the word means what you think it means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite yourself
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How so? Using the actual meaning of the word, of course. Right now you sound like Oprah giving away cars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you know why
> 
> if you dont fuck you asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing......that's what I thought. You've got jack shit.
> 
> Try again. If you're not sure what the word means, ask a native speaker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> loser hypocrite
Click to expand...


And beyond name calling that even *you* can't explain, do you have anything to add to the conversation?


----------



## jon_berzerk

Skylar said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are a hypocrite yourself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so? Using the actual meaning of the word, of course. Right now you sound like Oprah giving away cars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you know why
> 
> if you dont fuck you asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing......that's what I thought. You've got jack shit.
> 
> Try again. If you're not sure what the word means, ask a native speaker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> loser hypocrite
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And beyond name calling that even *you* can't explain, do you have anything to add to the conversation?
Click to expand...


fuck you hypocrite


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so? Using the actual meaning of the word, of course. Right now you sound like Oprah giving away cars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you know why
> 
> if you dont fuck you asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing......that's what I thought. You've got jack shit.
> 
> Try again. If you're not sure what the word means, ask a native speaker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> loser hypocrite
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And beyond name calling that even *you* can't explain, do you have anything to add to the conversation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fuck you hypocrite
Click to expand...



Laughing.....you don't even know what the word means, kiddo. When you've got something relevant to say about these Assholes in Oregon, feel free to join us.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jon_berzerk said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> How so? Using the actual meaning of the word, of course. Right now you sound like Oprah giving away cars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you know why
> 
> if you dont fuck you asshole
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing......that's what I thought. You've got jack shit.
> 
> Try again. If you're not sure what the word means, ask a native speaker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> loser hypocrite
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And beyond name calling that even *you* can't explain, do you have anything to add to the conversation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fuck you hypocrite
Click to expand...




I guess that means no.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Carla_Danger said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> you know why
> 
> if you dont fuck you asshole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laughing......that's what I thought. You've got jack shit.
> 
> Try again. If you're not sure what the word means, ask a native speaker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> loser hypocrite
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And beyond name calling that even *you* can't explain, do you have anything to add to the conversation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fuck you hypocrite
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that means no.
Click to expand...


it means you are a hypocrite


----------



## Carla_Danger

jon_berzerk said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Laughing......that's what I thought. You've got jack shit.
> 
> Try again. If you're not sure what the word means, ask a native speaker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loser hypocrite
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And beyond name calling that even *you* can't explain, do you have anything to add to the conversation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fuck you hypocrite
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess that means no.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it means you are a hypocrite
Click to expand...



Oh, I thought you called me a racist.


----------



## Skylar

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Burns, Oregon has suffered terribly from the invasion of out-of-state terrorists led by Ammon Bundy*. Bundy unleashed an insurrection against the federal government by taking over the *Malheur National Wildlife Refuge *in early January. However, the town is the real victim of the crime.
> 
> The heavily-armed insurrection attracted a disparate group of so-called “patriots”, many of whom had their own agenda and four of whom continue to occupy the refuge that belongs, not to them, but to the public. Bundy, sitting in a jail cell, has made *two pleas* to these misguided renegades to leave the refuge — but he is powerless to end the devastation that he began with his own call to lawlessness.
> 
> The four holdouts shift in their increasingly outrageous demands as the FBI tries to negotiate their departure. First, they wanted safe passage, with no one leaving in handcuffs. Then they wanted charges from 2014, pending in another state, to be cleared from the record of one of their band, Sean Anderson. Anderson reportedly has an extensive *criminal record*.
> 
> On Friday, the demands escalated. In a live feed, one the four, *David Fry* said:
> 
> *“Before we leave, every single one of the people involved in this operation should be pardoned.”*
> 
> *Burns is torn apart as the ridiculous demands increase*
> As this ridiculousness goes on, Burns continues to be torn apart.
> *Ammon Bundy's Victim: Burns, Oregon Not The Federal Government*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who gives a shit about the government housing project called "Burns"?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obviously you do not, you lying little bitch. There are a lot of very good people in Burns that have had really bad experiances in the last month because of the Bundy Militia. Personally, I give great credit to all the LEO's involved in that there was only one death in taking down the felons.
> I hope everyone of them gets ten years or more to occupy a federal installation.
Click to expand...


Its not looking good. The conspiracy charge alone carries up to 6 years. Plus there's burglary, theft, trespassing, destruction of property, the list goes on and on.

Then there are the fines and civil liability.


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. Try to run down a trooper and you better freeze and not move a muscle and follow instructions to the letter. Fuck that jumping out of the vehicle and walking away crap or playing some silly game. That dude wanted to be a martyr. He committed suicide by cop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *If I was the trooper he tried to run over or on the spot where he almost killed that trooper I would have shot him before he even had a chance to raise his hands. *
> 
> but that is just you right --LOL
> 
> but you would have restrained yourself when mike brown was coming in through the window
> 
> pounding you and trying to take your gun
> 
> hands up dont shoot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I would have shot him too. I am not a cop and don't think I have the temperament to be one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> why is that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why is what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> that
Click to expand...

Not anyone can be a good police officer. It takes a temperament that can harness patience and exert extreme emotional control and the ability to stay professional and objective under intense conditions. To some, that comes naturally. Others have to work on it and others simply can not achieve that kind of temperament. I am one of those that find it difficult to harness under some conditions and situations.


----------



## AmericanFirst1

Dot Com said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising that the government would be AGAINST _anti-government_ militias.  Lol.    Too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> You are in this thread exactly why tinfoil grl?
> 
> As to the OP, those insurrectionists need to be put down hard and fast
Click to expand...

Like blacklivesmatter does.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Felony Murder charges against the occupiers  could come from the killing of Finnicum .....


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Felony Murder charges against the occupiers  could come from the killing of Finnicum .....


you mean the fbi right?


----------



## Skylar

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Felony Murder charges against the occupiers  could come from the killing of Finnicum .....



That's gonna be tougher. As Finnicum was the driver. Ammon surrendered peacefully. Making any charges against him and the folks in his car unlikely.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Felony Murder charges against the occupiers  could come from the killing of Finnicum .....
> 
> 
> 
> you mean the fbi right?
Click to expand...


Oh, of course not. They did everything right. And it was an Oregon State Trooper that Lavoy was trying to draw a gun to murder in cold blood.


----------



## Faun

TyroneSlothrop said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
Click to expand...

The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Felony Murder charges against the occupiers  could come from the killing of Finnicum .....
> 
> 
> 
> you mean the fbi right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, of course not. They did everything right. And it was an Oregon State Trooper that Lavoy was trying to draw a gun to murder in cold blood.
Click to expand...

hahahahahahahahhahahaaha yeah bubba.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so my fact is indeed a fact, he had no weapon when he was shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
Click to expand...

or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Felony Murder charges against the occupiers  could come from the killing of Finnicum .....
> 
> 
> 
> you mean the fbi right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, of course not. They did everything right. And it was an Oregon State Trooper that Lavoy was trying to draw a gun to murder in cold blood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahahahahahahhahahaaha yeah bubba.
Click to expand...


Wow. You reduced yourself to petulant belligerence faster than usual.

Feel free to join us when you have something relevant to say.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Felony Murder charges against the occupiers  could come from the killing of Finnicum .....
> 
> 
> 
> you mean the fbi right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, of course not. They did everything right. And it was an Oregon State Trooper that Lavoy was trying to draw a gun to murder in cold blood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahahahahahahhahahaaha yeah bubba.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow. You reduced yourself to petulant belligerence faster than usual.
> 
> Feel free to join us when you have something relevant to say.
Click to expand...

post something relevant then.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> 
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
Click to expand...


Save of course that the FBI are subject to the *actual* law, and not whatever hapless batshit you make up. And Lavoy reached for a gun to shoot a State trooper. This after resisting arrest, leading the cops on a highspeed chase, and running a police road block.

Lavoy was predictably shot before he could murder the Oregon State Trooper.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

The only thing that could have kept this from being an FBI fuckup would have been if the militia had fired the first shot.
As it is they are the ones that started the bloodshed.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Save of course that the FBI are subject to the *actual* law, and not whatever hapless batshit you make up. And Lavoy reached for a gun to shoot a State trooper. This after resisting arrest, leading the cops on a highspeed chase, and running a police road block.
> 
> Lavoy was predictably shot before he could murder the Oregon State Trooper.
Click to expand...


Prove it.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> The only thing that could have kept this from being an FBI fuckup would have been if the militia had fired the first shot.
> As it is they are the ones that started the bloodshed.




There was no fuck up. They executed a lawful probable cause warrant. Lavoy refused to surrender to arrest. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest, and tried to run a police road block.

When Lavoy tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Trooper, the Trooper rightfully shot him.

Point to the fuck up. At every stage, their reactions were lawful, measured, and appropriate.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> 
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Save of course that the FBI are subject to the *actual* law, and not whatever hapless batshit you make up. And Lavoy reached for a gun to shoot a State trooper. This after resisting arrest, leading the cops on a highspeed chase, and running a police road block.
> 
> Lavoy was predictably shot before he could murder the Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove it.
Click to expand...


The police who were there cited Lavoy reaching for his pocket twice. After he was shot, they found a 9mm pistol in that same pocket. Plus, there's a video of Lavoy running from the scene, resisting arrest, running the road block and reaching for the gun.

That's a pair of credible eye witnesses, video evidence and physical evidence.

This will probably be used in law enforcement academies as a textbook justifiable shooting.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Save of course that the FBI are subject to the *actual* law, and not whatever hapless batshit you make up. And Lavoy reached for a gun to shoot a State trooper. This after resisting arrest, leading the cops on a highspeed chase, and running a police road block.
> 
> Lavoy was predictably shot before he could murder the Oregon State Trooper.
Click to expand...

you  have no evidence of that, sorry, you're just plain old wrong.  remember that.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Oregon town tenses up as Bundy militant supporters square off with counter-protesters*
Tension flared in the deeply divided town of Burns, Oregon, on Monday as 500 demonstrators on both sides of an armed occupation of a federal wildlife refuge squared off, brandishing signs and yelling at each other days after one of the occupiers was shot dead by state police.


----------



## jon_berzerk

AmericanFirst1 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not surprising that the government would be AGAINST _anti-government_ militias.  Lol.    Too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> You are in this thread exactly why tinfoil grl?
> 
> As to the OP, those insurrectionists need to be put down hard and fast
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like blacklivesmatter does.
Click to expand...


hands up dont shoot


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that could have kept this from being an FBI fuckup would have been if the militia had fired the first shot.
> As it is they are the ones that started the bloodshed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no fuck up. They executed a lawful probable cause warrant. Lavoy refused to surrender to arrest. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest, and tried to run a police road block.
> 
> When Lavoy tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Trooper, the Trooper rightfully shot him.
> 
> Point to the fuck up. At every stage, their reactions were lawful, measured, and appropriate.
Click to expand...

there was no high speed chase.  So not sure what video you watched.  How could it be a chase on one road at the speed limit. ewwwwwwwwwww he drove his car the speed limit and that's a high speed chase.  They knew there was a road block and didn't need to chase, they merely followed a car to the road block.  High speed chase, ok frances.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Gotta love the irony. These are people who decry the poors getting "free phones" while they graze their cattle on public land for free and live off the welfare and SS.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Save of course that the FBI are subject to the *actual* law, and not whatever hapless batshit you make up. And Lavoy reached for a gun to shoot a State trooper. This after resisting arrest, leading the cops on a highspeed chase, and running a police road block.
> 
> Lavoy was predictably shot before he could murder the Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The police who were there cited Lavoy reaching for his pocket twice. After he was shot, they found a 9mm pistol in that same pocket. Plus, there's a video of Lavoy running from the scene, resisting arrest, running the road block and reaching for the gun.
> 
> That's a pair of credible eye witnesses, video evidence and physical evidence.
> 
> This will probably be used in law enforcement academies as a textbook justifiable shooting.
Click to expand...

nope


----------



## jc456

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Gotta love the irony. These are people who decry the poors getting "free phones" while they graze their cattle on public land for free and live off the welfare and SS.


why do the poor get free phones?


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that could have kept this from being an FBI fuckup would have been if the militia had fired the first shot.
> As it is they are the ones that started the bloodshed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no fuck up. They executed a lawful probable cause warrant. Lavoy refused to surrender to arrest. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest, and tried to run a police road block.
> 
> When Lavoy tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Trooper, the Trooper rightfully shot him.
> 
> Point to the fuck up. At every stage, their reactions were lawful, measured, and appropriate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> there was no high speed chase.  So not sure what video you watched.  How could it be a chase on one road at the speed limit. ewwwwwwwwwww he drove his car the speed limit and that's a high speed chase.  They knew there was a road block and didn't need to chase, they merely followed a car to the road block.  High speed chase, ok frances.
Click to expand...


speaking of the high speed chase the roadblock was illegal as well


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> 
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Save of course that the FBI are subject to the *actual* law, and not whatever hapless batshit you make up. And Lavoy reached for a gun to shoot a State trooper. This after resisting arrest, leading the cops on a highspeed chase, and running a police road block.
> 
> Lavoy was predictably shot before he could murder the Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The police who were there cited Lavoy reaching for his pocket twice. After he was shot, they found a 9mm pistol in that same pocket. Plus, there's a video of Lavoy running from the scene, resisting arrest, running the road block and reaching for the gun.
> 
> That's a pair of credible eye witnesses, video evidence and physical evidence.
> 
> This will probably be used in law enforcement academies as a textbook justifiable shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope
Click to expand...


Yup. Remember, as you demonstrated so elegantly with your pseudo-legal gibbersh that any building the Feds don't use for 24 hours is abandoned under the law.......you have no idea how the law works. 

Rendering your assessments of legal outcomes irrelevant.


----------



## Dot Com

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Gotta love the irony. These are people who decry the poors getting "free phones" while they graze their cattle on public land for free and live off the welfare and SS.


truth is stranger than fiction


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

jc456 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta love the irony. These are people who decry the poors getting "free phones" while they graze their cattle on public land for free and live off the welfare and SS.
> 
> 
> 
> why do the poor get free phones?
Click to expand...

why do the white thugs get free grazing  welfare and SS


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that could have kept this from being an FBI fuckup would have been if the militia had fired the first shot.
> As it is they are the ones that started the bloodshed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no fuck up. They executed a lawful probable cause warrant. Lavoy refused to surrender to arrest. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest, and tried to run a police road block.
> 
> When Lavoy tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Trooper, the Trooper rightfully shot him.
> 
> Point to the fuck up. At every stage, their reactions were lawful, measured, and appropriate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> there was no high speed chase.  So not sure what video you watched.  How could it be a chase on one road at the speed limit. ewwwwwwwwwww he drove his car the speed limit and that's a high speed chase.  They knew there was a road block and didn't need to chase, they merely followed a car to the road block.  High speed chase, ok frances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> speaking of the high speed chase the roadblock was illegal as well
Click to expand...


Says who? 

Let me guess....the same bucket of irrelevant that told us that the gun found in the pocket Lavoy was reaching for was planted? That hapless soul doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

Yeah, guys? The pseudo-legal gibberish that you make up and tell each other is irrelevant. Bundy and his ilk are in the realm of the *actual* law now. Not what you imagine.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Skylar said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that could have kept this from being an FBI fuckup would have been if the militia had fired the first shot.
> As it is they are the ones that started the bloodshed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no fuck up. They executed a lawful probable cause warrant. Lavoy refused to surrender to arrest. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest, and tried to run a police road block.
> 
> When Lavoy tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Trooper, the Trooper rightfully shot him.
> 
> Point to the fuck up. At every stage, their reactions were lawful, measured, and appropriate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> there was no high speed chase.  So not sure what video you watched.  How could it be a chase on one road at the speed limit. ewwwwwwwwwww he drove his car the speed limit and that's a high speed chase.  They knew there was a road block and didn't need to chase, they merely followed a car to the road block.  High speed chase, ok frances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> speaking of the high speed chase the roadblock was illegal as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says who?
> 
> Let me guess....the same bucket of irrelevant that told us that the gun found in the pocket Lavoy was reaching for was planted? That hapless soul doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
> 
> Yeah, guys? The pseudo-legal gibberish that you make up and tell each other is irrelevant. Bundy and his ilk are in the realm of the *actual* law now. Not what you imagine.
Click to expand...



who cares what you think dickhead


----------



## Arianrhod

jon_berzerk said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that could have kept this from being an FBI fuckup would have been if the militia had fired the first shot.
> As it is they are the ones that started the bloodshed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no fuck up. They executed a lawful probable cause warrant. Lavoy refused to surrender to arrest. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest, and tried to run a police road block.
> 
> When Lavoy tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Trooper, the Trooper rightfully shot him.
> 
> Point to the fuck up. At every stage, their reactions were lawful, measured, and appropriate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> there was no high speed chase.  So not sure what video you watched.  How could it be a chase on one road at the speed limit. ewwwwwwwwwww he drove his car the speed limit and that's a high speed chase.  They knew there was a road block and didn't need to chase, they merely followed a car to the road block.  High speed chase, ok frances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> speaking of the high speed chase the roadblock was illegal as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says who?
> 
> Let me guess....the same bucket of irrelevant that told us that the gun found in the pocket Lavoy was reaching for was planted? That hapless soul doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
> 
> Yeah, guys? The pseudo-legal gibberish that you make up and tell each other is irrelevant. Bundy and his ilk are in the realm of the *actual* law now. Not what you imagine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> who cares what you think dickhead
Click to expand...


Reality?


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that could have kept this from being an FBI fuckup would have been if the militia had fired the first shot.
> As it is they are the ones that started the bloodshed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was no fuck up. They executed a lawful probable cause warrant. Lavoy refused to surrender to arrest. He lead the cops on a high speed chase, resisted arrest, and tried to run a police road block.
> 
> When Lavoy tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Trooper, the Trooper rightfully shot him.
> 
> Point to the fuck up. At every stage, their reactions were lawful, measured, and appropriate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> there was no high speed chase.  So not sure what video you watched.  How could it be a chase on one road at the speed limit. ewwwwwwwwwww he drove his car the speed limit and that's a high speed chase.  They knew there was a road block and didn't need to chase, they merely followed a car to the road block.  High speed chase, ok frances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> speaking of the high speed chase the roadblock was illegal as well
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says who?
> 
> Let me guess....the same bucket of irrelevant that told us that the gun found in the pocket Lavoy was reaching for was planted? That hapless soul doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
> 
> Yeah, guys? The pseudo-legal gibberish that you make up and tell each other is irrelevant. Bundy and his ilk are in the realm of the *actual* law now. Not what you imagine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> who cares what you think dickhead
Click to expand...


The cops aren't citing me. They're citing the two police officers who were standing within 20 feet of Lavoy when he was shot. And those who found the gun on his body. 

Again, tell yourself whatever comforting lies that help sooth the dissonance. Imagine your own law, your own video, your own physics. Self sooth with as much rhetorical thumb sucking as you need.

Bundy and his ilk are still subject to the *actual* law no matter what you tell yourself.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Pete Santilli, ordered held, will challenge ruling before another judge Tuesday*

● Shawna Cox's release conditions filed in federal court in Portland


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been off topic in response to questions  or off-topic statements  made by others here. Faun just lately. She seems determined to excuse the inexcusable in that POS coward Kerry.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> That _"POS coward"_ earned a Silver Star and a Bronze Star with Combat "V" for heroism.
> 
> ... you ... ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. He was *awarded* them. He *earned* a swift court martial and firing squad.
> I was there and know what I'm talking about. How about you?
> High ranking officers in his chain of command agreed with me. How about you?
Click to expand...

Your answer reveals you were nowhere near as heroic as Kerry, who earned a Silver Star and a Bronze Star with Combat "V".

You are bitter though, I'll grant you that.

And no, I wasn't there.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

None of what you have said changes the fact that the Feds. escalated the situation from peaceful talk to bloodshed for no very good reason.. In situations of this type what is decided in courts of law is not nearly as important as what is decided in the court of public opinion.


----------



## Skylar

9thIDdoc said:


> None of what you have said changes the fact that the Feds. escalated the situation from peaceful talk to bloodshed for no very good reason.. In situations of this type what is decided in courts of law is not nearly as important as what is decided in the court of public opinion.



And by 'escalated', you mean executed lawful probable cause warrants for the arrest of 6 people?

You're literally complaining that law enforcement officers enforced the law. Lawfully.

Um, that's kind of why we pay them.


----------



## jon_berzerk

this will go down as a text book police manual alright

on how not to apprehend  a subject

everything from the high speed chase 

to the no outs road block 

to the crossfire the cops conducted on themselves --LOL

a simple road spike would have done the trick


----------



## jon_berzerk

9thIDdoc said:


> None of what you have said changes the fact that the Feds. escalated the situation from peaceful talk to bloodshed for no very good reason.. In situations of this type what is decided in courts of law is not nearly as important as what is decided in the court of public opinion.



looks like they wanted to make an example


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> this will go down as a text book police manual alright
> 
> on how not to apprehend  a subject
> 
> everything from the high speed chase
> 
> to the no outs road block
> 
> to the crossfire the cops conducted on themselves --LOL
> 
> a simple road spike would have done the trick



Says you, pretending you know what the fuck you're talking about.

Sorry, Jon. But we're way past you militia sympathists just making shit up. We're in the realm of the *actual* law now. And actual police work. 

Not what you  imagine. But tell us again how the police road block was 'illegal'. Its worth at least a giggle.


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of what you have said changes the fact that the Feds. escalated the situation from peaceful talk to bloodshed for no very good reason.. In situations of this type what is decided in courts of law is not nearly as important as what is decided in the court of public opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks like they wanted to make an example
Click to expand...


Or......Lavoy resisted arrest, ran a blockade, led the cops on a high speed chase and reached for a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper. 

One of the two.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Skylar said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> this will go down as a text book police manual alright
> 
> on how not to apprehend  a subject
> 
> everything from the high speed chase
> 
> to the no outs road block
> 
> to the crossfire the cops conducted on themselves --LOL
> 
> a simple road spike would have done the trick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says you, pretending you know what the fuck you're talking about.
> 
> Sorry, Jon. But we're way past you militia sympathists just making shit up. We're in the realm of the *actual* law now. And actual police work.
> 
> Not what you  imagine. But tell us again how the police road block was 'illegal'. Its worth at least a giggle.
Click to expand...


hey chump

it is more then obvious you do not have a clue about any police tactic


----------



## jon_berzerk

Skylar said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> None of what you have said changes the fact that the Feds. escalated the situation from peaceful talk to bloodshed for no very good reason.. In situations of this type what is decided in courts of law is not nearly as important as what is decided in the court of public opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks like they wanted to make an example
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Or......Lavoy resisted arrest, ran a blockade, led the cops on a high speed chase and reached for a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> One of the two.
Click to expand...

yes it is understood that you are low functioning 

thanks for the demonstration


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> this will go down as a text book police manual alright
> 
> on how not to apprehend  a subject
> 
> everything from the high speed chase
> 
> to the no outs road block
> 
> to the crossfire the cops conducted on themselves --LOL
> 
> a simple road spike would have done the trick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says you, pretending you know what the fuck you're talking about.
> 
> Sorry, Jon. But we're way past you militia sympathists just making shit up. We're in the realm of the *actual* law now. And actual police work.
> 
> Not what you  imagine. But tell us again how the police road block was 'illegal'. Its worth at least a giggle.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> hey chump
> 
> it is more then obvious you do not have a clue about any police tactic
Click to expand...


Laughing......says the poor soul who insists that the police planted a gun on Lavoy. But you were saying about 'police procedures'? 

Oh, and tell us again how the police road block was 'illegal'. The endorphins are amazing.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the FBI and Oregon State Police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fine. Can you quote them or provide a link? Or are you just continuing talk shit?
Click to expand...

Sure...

_Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow. Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket.

At this time, OSP troopers shot Finicum._

Remarks by SAC Greg Bretzing at a Press Conference to Address the Ongoing Situation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge​


----------



## Skylar

Faun said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has been alleged:
> That the truck was being fired on before coming to a stop in the snow.
> The the firing continued as he stuck his head and empty hands out of the window.
> That his getting out of the truck was an effort to protect the women inside.
> And that he lowered his hands after being shot the first time.
> Can someone refute these allegations?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the FBI and Oregon State Police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fine. Can you quote them or provide a link? Or are you just continuing talk shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure...
> 
> _Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow. Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket.
> 
> At this time, OSP troopers shot Finicum._
> 
> Remarks by SAC Greg Bretzing at a Press Conference to Address the Ongoing Situation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge​
Click to expand...


Ah, but you forget....


----------



## Faun

Carla_Danger said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *
> 
> 
> 
> By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it. That's just cruel and unusual punishment. Now how are they going to watch SpongeBob SquarePants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta watch this last dance, and grab some tissue!  LOL!
> 
> (they don't want to go to jail, they were only camping!  hahahaha!)
Click to expand...

*WTF??????????????*


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_Your answer reveals you were nowhere near as heroic as Kerry, who earned...
You are bitter though, I'll grant you that_.

Now that part is true. I had no intention of being a hero and am pleased that I managed to avoid it. Hero's die. A lot. Or go home missing important parts. But even at that I wasn't a coward. Kerry was. Even worse he dishonored the commendations he sleezed out of the system ( which he later threw away) and the men who fought there as their county as their country directed. And that is unforgivable. I wasn't a hero; but I knew some and they deserved better than that.


----------



## Carla_Danger

Faun said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> * Oregon Occupiers Say Their Phones, Internet Have Been Cut Off *
> 
> 
> 
> By Caitlin MacNeal   Livewire
> 
> 
> 
> Damn it. That's just cruel and unusual punishment. Now how are they going to watch SpongeBob SquarePants?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You gotta watch this last dance, and grab some tissue!  LOL!
> 
> (they don't want to go to jail, they were only camping!  hahahaha!)
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *WTF??????????????*
Click to expand...




It's their last dance before they get arrested, for simply camping out.


----------



## Carla_Danger

9thIDdoc said:


> _Your answer reveals you were nowhere near as heroic as Kerry, who earned...
> You are bitter though, I'll grant you that_.
> 
> Now that part is true. I had no intention of being a hero and am pleased that I managed to avoid it. Hero's die. A lot. Or go home missing important parts. But even at that I wasn't a coward. Kerry was. Even worse he dishonored the commendations he sleezed out of the system ( which he later threw away) and the men who fought there as their county as their country directed. And that is unforgivable. I wasn't a hero; but I knew some and they deserved better than that.





You're still talking about John Kerry?  What are your views on Jane Fonda?

I think she did a wonderful job playing Nancy Reagan.


----------



## 9thIDdoc




----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tamir Rice was 12 years old with no gun...it did not take 3 and half weeks to kill him...that took 2 seconds...
> 
> 
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
Click to expand...

And yet, the only ones who are facing a 10x10 room are the members of that rightarded militia who were arrested that day.


----------



## Skylar

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet, the only one's who are facing a 10x10 room are the members of that rightarded militia who were arrested that day.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but you're hamstrung by this over-reliance on facts, evidence and reality.

You need to let go of all that and just.....believe.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


>


And yet, he still earned a Silver Star and a Bronze Star with Combat "V".

Your continued bitterness is noted.

As is your silence on what medals you earned for bravery under fire.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> The only thing that could have kept this from being an FBI fuckup would have been if the militia had fired the first shot.
> As it is they are the ones that started the bloodshed.


It's cute how you think the best practice for law enforcement is to wait until the people they are arresting fire first.

But then I suppose that's why you're a brain-dead conservative and not a cop. If you were a cop, you'd have been killed long ago by letting a criminal fire first.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


>



v v v Real v v v​


----------



## Faun

Skylar said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Save of course that the FBI are subject to the *actual* law, and not whatever hapless batshit you make up. And Lavoy reached for a gun to shoot a State trooper. This after resisting arrest, leading the cops on a highspeed chase, and running a police road block.
> 
> Lavoy was predictably shot before he could murder the Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The police who were there cited Lavoy reaching for his pocket twice. After he was shot, they found a 9mm pistol in that same pocket. Plus, there's a video of Lavoy running from the scene, resisting arrest, running the road block and reaching for the gun.
> 
> That's a pair of credible eye witnesses, video evidence and physical evidence.
> 
> This will probably be used in law enforcement academies as a textbook justifiable shooting.
Click to expand...

And there's more ... when asked what he "would intend to do in response" if the FBI came to arrest him, he said, _"I have no intention any of my days in a concrete box."_

And when asked to confirm if he actually meant, "so you're prepared to die...better dead than in a cell," he responded, _"absolutely. Would you like to be in a cell? Nobody wants to live their life in a cell. *Absolutely, I'm not going to live my life in a cell.*"_

@1:40


So he did what he said he would do -- get himself killed rather than get arrested.

He *chose* to end up in a wooden box instead of a concrete box.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OldLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're confusing us, KosherGirl.  What's up?
> 
> 
> 
> Burns is almost solely populated by employees and officials for the forest service, state police, BLM and state parks. When the mills and forests were shut down, the feds moved in. So don't assume that the virulent pro-federal, anti-protest rhetoric you hear out of Burns is accurate or even representative of rural residents. It is not. You are hearing the feds being pumped up and supported by other feds.
> 
> One of the lies they liked to share was that the protesters were intimidating and threatening people. And yet NOT ONE PERSON has been able to name who they threatened, who did the threatening, or what the threat was. The FBI put out the lie that "militia" were following people around and scaring them, vandalizing, etc. Until they got busted dressing up as militia and doing just that. Now the scuttlebutt in Burns is that it's "their" issue and everybody else (except the feds, of course) should just go home and let it blow over. The other ridiculous thing put out there is that federal $$ is the "lifeblood" of the community, because they're employed by the government.
> 
> Yeah, because the government shut down their industry and stole their resources, and they had no choice. But most of the locals either left..and what are left are jackasses who put in for jobs there and now consider themselves "locals". And some are. There are families where there are 2-3 generations of government employees (because they give jobs to their families).
> 
> You see the problem?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Certainly do see the problem. A lying little bitch named Kosher. The feds did not move in when the mills shut down. There were there the whole time. And there were more of them. Some of those jobs went away, also. The resources of which you speak were always on BLM, State, or Forest Service land.
Click to expand...

 

Uh huh, lol. Whatever you say, moron.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta love the irony. These are people who decry the poors getting "free phones" while they graze their cattle on public land for free and live off the welfare and SS.
> 
> 
> 
> why do the poor get free phones?
Click to expand...

Because the LifeLine program was launched under President Reagan in 1985...


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> None of what you have said changes the fact that the Feds. escalated the situation from peaceful talk to bloodshed for no very good reason.. In situations of this type what is decided in courts of law is not nearly as important as what is decided in the court of public opinion.


You're fucking insane.  The Feds were executing completely legal and justified arrest warrants.

WTF is wrong with you nutters? It's like your head is screwed on backwards. _<smh>_


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _Your answer reveals you were nowhere near as heroic as Kerry, who earned...
> You are bitter though, I'll grant you that_.
> 
> Now that part is true. I had no intention of being a hero and am pleased that I managed to avoid it. Hero's die. A lot. Or go home missing important parts. But even at that I wasn't a coward. Kerry was. Even worse he dishonored the commendations he sleezed out of the system ( which he later threw away) and the men who fought there as their county as their country directed. And that is unforgivable. I wasn't a hero; but I knew some and they deserved better than that.




You proudly admit you're a flaming coward while you call a genuinely decorated hero a coward.



Thanks for the laugh!  I appreciate it.


----------



## 12icer

Lets see what liberals come up with for Hey guess what I just shot and killed a Thug that was stealing some of my property with a 41 magnum S&W. I saw him stealing the stuff told him to stand still, I was calling 911 and the cops, He reached toward his pants waistband, and I blew his head apart like an egg. Oh guess what he looked like !!! I have charged three thieves with felonies in the last six years, and got back almost 3, of the 16,000 dollars they stole from me and one of the guns they stole. I know you will think MY actions are JUSTIFIED!! Oh he was just going to pull up his pants I guess, but I'm not under arrest anyway. I guess the People can do the same things as the feds in the same situation. HAHA there have been no changes in the liberal talking points since the first post, so why not just CP it and post it over and over, 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 Now what does 2+2=   a=4  NO WE TOLD YOU 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 HAHA OH I hope Hillary wins tonight.


----------



## Skylar

12icer said:


> Lets see what liberals come up with for Hey guess what I just shot and killed a Thug that was stealing some of my property with a 41 magnum S&W. I saw him stealing the stuff told him to stand still, I was calling 911 and the cops, He reached toward his pants waistband, and I blew his head apart like an egg. Oh guess what he looked like !!! I have charged three thieves with felonies in the last six years, and got back almost 3, of the 16,000 dollars they stole from me and one of the guns they stole. I know you will think MY actions are JUSTIFIED!! Oh he was just going to pull up his pants I guess, but I'm not under arrest anyway. I guess the People can do the same things as the feds in the same situation. HAHA there have been no changes in the liberal talking points since the first post, so why not just CP it and post it over and over, 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 Now what does 2+2=   a=4  NO WE TOLD YOU 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 HAHA OH I hope Hillary wins tonight.



Wow. That's like bulk word salad. You must shop at the Costco. 

Try again. This time discussing the topic of the thread. And writing in coherent English.


----------



## 12icer

Same thing,  I know you are a liberal, and cant think for yourself, As I posted incapable of multiplanic thought. Goes to the idea of killing anyone because of property, and egos instead of to prevent death. Kindergarteners here  guess.


----------



## Skylar

12icer said:


> Same thing,  I know you are a liberal, and cant think for yourself, As I posted incapable of multiplanic thought. Goes to the idea of killing anyone because of property, and egos instead of to prevent death. Kindergarteners here  guess.



Apparently 'multi-planic' thought can't be bothered with trivialities like...coherence. Or punctuation. Or, say.... the slightest relevance to what is being discussed.

Anymore word salad you'd like to offer us? As novel as you might think a half paragraph of math equations might be, running from a discussion of those Assholes in Oregon isn't particularly new.

At this point, its pretty much all your ilk have left to them.


----------



## ogibillm

9thIDdoc said:


> _Your answer reveals you were nowhere near as heroic as Kerry, who earned...
> You are bitter though, I'll grant you that_.
> 
> Now that part is true. I had no intention of being a hero and am pleased that I managed to avoid it. Hero's die. A lot. Or go home missing important parts. But even at that I wasn't a coward. Kerry was. Even worse he dishonored the commendations he sleezed out of the system ( which he later threw away) and the men who fought there as their county as their country directed. And that is unforgivable. I wasn't a hero; but I knew some and they deserved better than that.


how can you expect anyone to take you seriously?


----------



## Carla_Danger

12icer said:


> Lets see what liberals come up with for Hey guess what I just shot and killed a Thug that was stealing some of my property with a 41 magnum S&W. I saw him stealing the stuff told him to stand still, I was calling 911 and the cops, He reached toward his pants waistband, and I blew his head apart like an egg. Oh guess what he looked like !!! I have charged three thieves with felonies in the last six years, and got back almost 3, of the 16,000 dollars they stole from me and one of the guns they stole. I know you will think MY actions are JUSTIFIED!! Oh he was just going to pull up his pants I guess, but I'm not under arrest anyway. I guess the People can do the same things as the feds in the same situation. HAHA there have been no changes in the liberal talking points since the first post, so why not just CP it and post it over and over, 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 Now what does 2+2=   a=4  NO WE TOLD YOU 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 2+2=5 HAHA OH I hope Hillary wins tonight.





What is this, some sort of mental masturbation?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_And yet, he still earned a Silver Star and a Bronze Star with Combat "V".

Your continued bitterness is noted.

As is your silence on what medals you earned for bravery under fire._
_




_


----------



## 9thIDdoc




----------



## Old Rocks

*Well, the good people of Burns definately gave the militia an earful yesterday.*

Dueling protests decry, support Ore. refuge occupation | KGW.com

BURNS, Ore. -- Dueling protests faced off at courthouse in Burns on Monday.  Anti-government protesters were outnumbered by a locally organized group of approximately 300 people who showed support for law enforcement and told outsiders to go home.

Hundreds of people yelled "Stay here FBI" and waved signs with slogans like "God bless your passion, but please take it elsewhere - Bye bye!" and "Your voice is not my voice."

*There is a video of the event showing what the locals think of these outsiders trying to stir up trouble. Kudos to the good people of Burns, Oregon.*


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Old Rocks said:


> *There is a video of the event showing what the locals think of these outsiders trying to stir up trouble. Kudos to the good people of Burns, Oregon.*


*Cliven Bundy stoking Oregon fires?*
Source: *CBS News*

LAS VEGAS - Controversial cattle rancher Cliven Bundy is preparing to lead a fight against the government again, reports CBS Las Vegas affiliate KLAS-TV.

The station says he released a notice Monday that he sent to an Oregon sheriff telling him to "remove all federal and state policing agents out of Harney County," where a month-long occupation of a federal wildlife refuge by militia memberscontinues.

Last week, Bundy's sons told supporters to back down from the occupation. Now, the elder Bundy is saying the opposite.

Cliven Bundy's notice to the sheriff was also sent to Oregon Governor Kate Brown and President Obama. In the notice, Bundy wrote,* "We will retain possession of the Harney County Resource Center."*

Read more: Cliven Bundy stoking Oregon fires?


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> _And yet, he still earned a Silver Star and a Bronze Star with Combat "V".
> 
> Your continued bitterness is noted.
> 
> As is your silence on what medals you earned for bravery under fire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


_"I had no intention of being a hero and am pleased that I managed to avoid it. Hero's die." - a pussy_

John Kerry -- Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat "V"

_*Silver Star* - is the third-highest military combat decoration that can be awarded to a member of the United States Armed Forces. It is awarded for gallantry in action_

_*Bronze Star* - is for heroic achievement, heroic service, meritorious achievement, or meritorious service in a combat zone._

_*Combat "V"* - is to distinguish a medal for valor._


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Ruh-Roh God Emperor of Nevada sends a Certified letter....*




*Cliven Bundy, sent the sheriff of Harney County a certified letter announcing that Cliven Bundy is now in charge. Clieven also ordered the sheriff to remove the FBI by 5 pm today. *


----------



## 9thIDdoc

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> *There is a video of the event showing what the locals think of these outsiders trying to stir up trouble. Kudos to the good people of Burns, Oregon.*
> 
> 
> 
> *Cliven Bundy stoking Oregon fires?*
> Source: *CBS News*
> 
> LAS VEGAS - Controversial cattle rancher Cliven Bundy is preparing to lead a fight against the government again, reports CBS Las Vegas affiliate KLAS-TV.
> 
> The station says he released a notice Monday that he sent to an Oregon sheriff telling him to "remove all federal and state policing agents out of Harney County," where a month-long occupation of a federal wildlife refuge by militia memberscontinues.
> 
> Last week, Bundy's sons told supporters to back down from the occupation. Now, the elder Bundy is saying the opposite.
> 
> Cliven Bundy's notice to the sheriff was also sent to Oregon Governor Kate Brown and President Obama. In the notice, Bundy wrote,* "We will retain possession of the Harney County Resource Center."*
> 
> Read more: Cliven Bundy stoking Oregon fires?
Click to expand...


What!? That couldn't possibly be! Don't they know that some of you folks declared that whole thing over days ago when the LEOs bravely shot that poor old man in the back!? Why, the nerve of those people!


----------



## 9thIDdoc

"_As is your silence on what medals you earned for bravery under fire"
_
I showed you mine; now show me yours. Or admit that you are entirely clueless on this subject and STFU_._


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta love the irony. These are people who decry the poors getting "free phones" while they graze their cattle on public land for free and live off the welfare and SS.
> 
> 
> 
> why do the poor get free phones?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because the LifeLine program was launched under President Reagan in 1985...
Click to expand...

It was for landline service to protect the family in the house and to look for a job.  In 2005 they added the prepaid wireless. however, it is limited.  And this is where I believe the issue is at.

"Federal rules prohibit eligible low-income consumers from receiving more than one Lifeline discount per household.  An eligible consumer may receive a discount on either a wireline or wireless service, but not both.  A consumer whose household currently is receiving more than one Lifeline service must select a single Lifeline provider and contact the other provider to de-enroll from their program. Consumers violating this rule may also be subject to criminal and/or civil penalties."  How many of these folks have more than one in a household?  hmmmmmmm.......


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes he did, and there were witnesses who called the cops to come and resolve the kid walking around aiming it everyone.  And in another thread, the air pellet gun looks like a real gun.  so a threat is a threat is a threat and the kid had the weapon in his hands.
> 
> the old guy in Oregon, nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet, the only ones who are facing a 10x10 room are the members of that rightarded militia who were arrested that day.
Click to expand...

they'll be out of their cells shortly I'm sure.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> 
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Save of course that the FBI are subject to the *actual* law, and not whatever hapless batshit you make up. And Lavoy reached for a gun to shoot a State trooper. This after resisting arrest, leading the cops on a highspeed chase, and running a police road block.
> 
> Lavoy was predictably shot before he could murder the Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The police who were there cited Lavoy reaching for his pocket twice. After he was shot, they found a 9mm pistol in that same pocket. Plus, there's a video of Lavoy running from the scene, resisting arrest, running the road block and reaching for the gun.
> 
> That's a pair of credible eye witnesses, video evidence and physical evidence.
> 
> This will probably be used in law enforcement academies as a textbook justifiable shooting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And there's more ... when asked what he "would intend to do in response" if the FBI came to arrest him, he said, _"I have no intention any of my days in a concrete box."_
> 
> And when asked to confirm if he actually meant, "so you're prepared to die...better dead than in a cell," he responded, _"absolutely. Would you like to be in a cell? Nobody wants to live their life in a cell. *Absolutely, I'm not going to live my life in a cell.*"_
> 
> @1:40
> 
> 
> So he did what he said he would do -- get himself killed rather than get arrested.
> 
> He *chose* to end up in a wooden box instead of a concrete box.
Click to expand...

then what you're saying it was an assisted suicide. Hmmmmm is that legal? Physician assisted is legal in Oregon, but I don't think by gun.  And I highly doubt the two shooters were physicians.  So, that seems to violate the law.

Hey, why didn't they just taser the guy?


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> hands up dont shoot counts in the tamir case
> 
> but hands up dont shoot dont count in the lavoy case
> 
> someone sounds like a hypocrite at best
> 
> 
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet, the only ones who are facing a 10x10 room are the members of that rightarded militia who were arrested that day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they'll be out of their cells shortly I'm sure.
Click to expand...


funny how the standard has changed 

simply being in a jail hold 

makes one guilty


----------



## jc456

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TyroneSlothrop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lavoy , a blow hard Right  wing armed thug....vowed he would not be taken alive ...vowed to shoot if anyone tried to interfere with his crimes...he was stopped by the Police and fled heavily armed from Police ...he then crashed his car in a snow bank and came out resisting...he got shot...oh well shit happens
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI should send his widow a bill for the ammo they had to waste on him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or they can enjoy the 10 by 10 room.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And yet, the only ones who are facing a 10x10 room are the members of that rightarded militia who were arrested that day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they'll be out of their cells shortly I'm sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> funny how the standard has changed
> 
> simply being in a jail hold
> 
> makes one guilty
Click to expand...

they operate from a position of everything they say is fact.  Tough to argue with lunacy like that. especially when everything I say is fact.


----------



## 12icer

My post is as relevant to this as your Kerry loving post. But it is a question as a POSER, being about the Government vs citizen rights, The Government has NO rights except those given them by the citizens. The citizens rights are not given to them by government, and are SUPPOSEDLY unrestricted as long as they do not infringe on the rights of other citizens. The fact you can't unravel even the primary idea behind a facetious poser confirms my initial impression after reading the first of your posts. Liberals tend to be unreasonable, shallow, and closed minded, just go to a liberal college campus and try to have a debate about REAL history. Your impression of me is funny as a Richard Pryor Stand up routine You have no idea what I am or what I am doing besides baiting your Ah FORMIDABLE haha intellect?


----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl

So those are the people who are sick of federal oppression.

Here is one of the good people of Harney County that Old Fag claims is a member of the  "sane" and "majority" voters.  I guess size does matter:


----------



## Camp

Festus was shot by Oregon state police, not the FBI. Where do they want the Oregon state police to go?


----------



## koshergrl

Gosh, look at those crazy fringe lunatics! They're so scary!!!! Quick, surrender what's left of the rural areas of our nation to the feds, we can't have these people in charge!


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> Festus was shot by Oregon state police, not the FBI. Where do they want the Oregon state police to go?


 They can go to Portland and focus on clearing the people out of the homeless camps.


----------



## koshergrl

Holy hell, look at those terrorists!! Kill them! Kill them all!


----------



## koshergrl

This one is particularly frightening....obviously these people are crazed anarchists:


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


>


The answer to her question is... to meet his maker.


----------



## guno

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Festus was shot by Oregon state police, not the FBI. Where do they want the Oregon state police to go?
> 
> 
> 
> They can go to Portland and focus on clearing the people out of the homeless camps.
Click to expand...

wonder if lavoy flopped around like a dying fish??


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


>






They really need to learn how to dress for success.


----------



## Faun

9thIDdoc said:


> "_As is your silence on what medals you earned for bravery under fire"
> _
> I showed you mine; now show me yours. Or admit that you are entirely clueless on this subject and STFU_._


You sound like a pervert. 

.... asked and answered.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Holy hell, look at those terrorists!! Kill them! Kill them all!


No one is saying that..............but you.


----------



## bodecea

guno said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Festus was shot by Oregon state police, not the FBI. Where do they want the Oregon state police to go?
> 
> 
> 
> They can go to Portland and focus on clearing the people out of the homeless camps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> wonder if lavoy flopped around like a dying fish??
Click to expand...

New rule...Never eat red snow.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


>


What's Elton John doing there??


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Holy hell, look at those terrorists!! Kill them! Kill them all!


They too can die if they want. All they have to do is pull a Finicum. That's where you reach for your gun while a LEO has his gun pointed at you.


----------



## 9thIDdoc




----------



## Dr Grump

9thIDdoc said:


>



You gonna clean up the town Wyatt?


----------



## jon_berzerk

after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone 

the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio 

and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says 

the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up


----------



## Old Rocks

The asshole ran a roadblock, and approach another at high speed. Of course the fired on him. Had he exited the vehicle, stood still with his hand in the air, he would be alive today. Instead, he tried to make a run for it, and tried to draw the semi-auto pistol he always carried. So, like any other felon in the same situation, he was killed. Good riddance.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up


The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.

Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.

He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.

That's what he wanted.

That's what he got.

That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.


----------



## koshergrl

guno said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Festus was shot by Oregon state police, not the FBI. Where do they want the Oregon state police to go?
> 
> 
> 
> They can go to Portland and focus on clearing the people out of the homeless camps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> wonder if lavoy flopped around like a dying fish??
Click to expand...

There is a video you can jack off to, freak. He didn't flop but he did point directly in the direction from whence the first shot came from.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> The asshole ran a roadblock, and approach another at high speed. Of course the fired on him. Had he exited the vehicle, stood still with his hand in the air, he would be alive today. Instead, he tried to make a run for it, and tried to draw the semi-auto pistol he always carried. So, like any other felon in the same situation, he was killed. Good riddance.


No, he stopped at the roadblock. When they started taking fire, he took off.


----------



## koshergrl

Dr Grump said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You gonna clean up the town Wyatt?
Click to expand...

When the feds leave, it will clean itself.


----------



## bodecea

9thIDdoc said:


>


Cool...you get one of those at a surplus store?


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
Click to expand...



yeah so you say


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The asshole ran a roadblock, and approach another at high speed. Of course the fired on him. Had he exited the vehicle, stood still with his hand in the air, he would be alive today. Instead, he tried to make a run for it, and tried to draw the semi-auto pistol he always carried. So, like any other felon in the same situation, he was killed. Good riddance.
> 
> 
> 
> No, he stopped at the roadblock. When they started taking fire, he took off.
Click to expand...

He stopped at the roadblock when his vehicle got stuck in a snow bank after he attempted to go around the roadblock.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The asshole ran a roadblock, and approach another at high speed. Of course the fired on him. Had he exited the vehicle, stood still with his hand in the air, he would be alive today. Instead, he tried to make a run for it, and tried to draw the semi-auto pistol he always carried. So, like any other felon in the same situation, he was killed. Good riddance.
> 
> 
> 
> No, he stopped at the roadblock. When they started taking fire, he took off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He stopped at the roadblock when his vehicle got stuck in a snow bank after he attempted to go around the roadblock.
Click to expand...



that is the 2nd road block


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yeah so you say
Click to expand...

Finicum said so himself. He said he would rather get killed than go to jail.

So he ran from the vehicle; and once cleared, reached for his gun so law enforcement would carry out his wishes.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The asshole ran a roadblock, and approach another at high speed. Of course the fired on him. Had he exited the vehicle, stood still with his hand in the air, he would be alive today. Instead, he tried to make a run for it, and tried to draw the semi-auto pistol he always carried. So, like any other felon in the same situation, he was killed. Good riddance.
> 
> 
> 
> No, he stopped at the roadblock. When they started taking fire, he took off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He stopped at the roadblock when his vehicle got stuck in a snow bank after he attempted to go around the roadblock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> that is the 2nd road block
Click to expand...

There was only one road block. The first stop is when they were pulled over. Getting pulled over is not a road block.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yeah so you say
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finicum said so himself. He said he would rather get killed than go to jail.
> 
> So he ran from the vehicle; and once cleared, reached for his gun so law enforcement would carry out his wishes.
Click to expand...



an eye witness differs from what you claim 

she has audio to back it up 

however the fbi will not release it currently 

they said in 4 weeks


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> The asshole ran a roadblock, and approach another at high speed. Of course the fired on him. Had he exited the vehicle, stood still with his hand in the air, he would be alive today. Instead, he tried to make a run for it, and tried to draw the semi-auto pistol he always carried. So, like any other felon in the same situation, he was killed. Good riddance.
> 
> 
> 
> No, he stopped at the roadblock. When they started taking fire, he took off.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He stopped at the roadblock when his vehicle got stuck in a snow bank after he attempted to go around the roadblock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> that is the 2nd road block
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was only one road block. The first stop is when they were pulled over. Getting pulled over is not a road block.
Click to expand...


so what that does not warrant being fired upon 

as a witness claims


----------



## 9thIDdoc

His family claims he was shot 9 times.


----------



## jon_berzerk

9thIDdoc said:


> His family claims he was shot 9 times.




they had a second autopsy done


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> yeah so you say
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finicum said so himself. He said he would rather get killed than go to jail.
> 
> So he ran from the vehicle; and once cleared, reached for his gun so law enforcement would carry out his wishes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> an eye witness differs from what you claim
> 
> she has audio to back it up
> 
> however the fbi will not release it currently
> 
> they said in 4 weeks
Click to expand...

There is no audio to prove he didn't get himself killed -- which he expressed was his desire rather than go to jail.


----------



## Camp

9thIDdoc said:


> His family claims he was shot 9 times.


Do we know which shot caused him to terminate breathing?


----------



## 9thIDdoc

_Do we know which shot caused him to terminate breathing?
_
He is said to have been shot in the face but I would think that may have been an exit wound as the video showed a man firing
from close behind him.


----------



## koshergrl

A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this

 

The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint working with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> His family claims he was shot 9 times.
> 
> 
> 
> Do we know which shot caused him to terminate breathing?
Click to expand...

You understand the concept of one unloaded rifle in the firing squad...?


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y





Why isn't he wearing a tin foil hat?


----------



## Carla_Danger

koshergrl said:


> A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y





If this man is a lifelong Harney Country resident, why does it say "Words for Lavoy Finicum from England " on his youtube page?


I guess what you mean to say is someone re-posted a video of some fruit cake in England.


----------



## Skylar

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this man is a lifelong Harney Country resident, why does it say "Words for Lavoy Finicum from England " on his youtube page?
> 
> 
> I guess what you mean to say is someone re-posted a video of some fruit cake in England.
Click to expand...


Laughing.....you'd think that by the law of averages alone Kosher would eventually get something right. But defying both statistics and reason, she always finds a way.

To fail.

Time for her to quote the Russian government and 'Sputnik News' again, I suppose.


----------



## koshergrl

Carla_Danger said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why isn't he wearing a tin foil hat?
Click to expand...

 Why are you? It's a fashion statement.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint working with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y


Piss from laughing, maybe. The guy is a friggin' loon.  No wonder you relate to him.

The police were not _"out of control."_ They acted reasonably and as expected. They did not set out to kill anyone. They could not help a lunatic like Finicum would emerge from that vehicle with a death wish.

If their intent was to _"kill at least one of the ring leaders"_ .... *they wouldn't have video taped the arrest.* seriously...what the fuck is wrong with you people?


----------



## Vandalshandle

These guys were on their way to a prayer meeting, after which, they were going to feed the homeless vets who were unable to leave their sleeping bags where they lived under a bridge, because they had lost their legs in Vietnam. On the way, they were ambushed by FBI special agents who were wearing turbans and chanting Muslim slogans. The ranchers offered to pray with them, but the FBI just kept shooting. The ranchers, being non violent, tried to escape in their car, but being concerned that they might accidentally break speeding laws, were careful to keep the vehicle under 55 MPH, giving the FBI time to set up a roadblock. One thing let to another, and the feds riddled Finicum with a Browning automatic rifle and a bazooka.  The ranchers, of course, were unarmed, having sworn an oath of loyalty to the USA, and not wanting to provoke anyone. Finicum died with his mother's name on his lips.


----------



## Skylar

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint working with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y
> 
> 
> 
> Piss from laughing, maybe. The guy is a friggin' loon.  No wonder you relate to him.
> 
> The police were not _"out of control."_ They acted reasonably and as expected. They did not set out to kill anyone. They could not help a lunatic like Finicum would emerge from that vehicle with a death wish.
> 
> If their intent was to _"kill at least one of the ring leaders"_ .... *they wouldn't have video taped the arrest.* seriously...what the fuck is wrong with you people?
Click to expand...


My favorite was Militia man Porkins who insisted its 'Armageddon!'

I kept looking for Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck, but for the life of me, I didn't see them anywhere in at the refuge.


----------



## Skylar

Vandalshandle said:


> These guys were on their way to a prayer meeting, after which, they were going to feed the homeless vets who were unable to leave their sleeping bags where they lived under a bridge, because they had lost their legs in Vietnam. On the way, they were ambushed by FBI special agents who were wearing turbans and chanting Muslim slogans. The ranchers offered to pray with them, but the FBI just kept shooting. The ranchers, being non violent, tried to escape in their car, but being concerned that they might accidentally break speeding laws, were careful to keep the vehicle under 55 MPH, giving the FBI time to set up a roadblock. One thing let to another, and the feds riddled Finicum with a Browning automatic rifle and a bazooka.  The ranchers, of course, were unarmed, having sworn an oath of loyalty to the USA, and not wanting to provoke anyone. Finicum died with his mother's name on his lips.



You forgot the part where Lavoy Finicum slipped in the blood of the toddler's the Oregon State Troopers had spread liberally on the ground as part of their snowbound man on man orgy minutes before his arrival.


----------



## Old Rocks

Goddamn, life long Harney County resident with an English accent. LOL


----------



## Carla_Danger

Skylar said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this man is a lifelong Harney Country resident, why does it say "Words for Lavoy Finicum from England " on his youtube page?
> 
> 
> I guess what you mean to say is someone re-posted a video of some fruit cake in England.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....you'd think that by the law of averages alone Kosher would eventually get something right. But defying both statistics and reason, she always finds a way.
> 
> To fail.
> 
> Time for her to quote the Russian government and 'Sputnik News' again, I suppose.
Click to expand...




Even a broken clock is right twice a day.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint working with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y


I know it's been said....but Allie....I do wonder at your sanity and your intelligence....claiming a man with a British accent is a "respected, LIFELONG Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian"......


----------



## 12icer

Still haven't seen the dash cams from the cars, Has anyone? What about the body cams or radio recorders. They were all not working I guess. After all the victim WAS the wrong color. HAH now what. No need for that in this case I guess. Hey I have a whole new box of tinfoil if you liberal igmos need some to protect your last two brain cells.


----------



## Carla_Danger

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint working with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's been said....but Allie....I do wonder at your sanity and your intelligence....claiming a man with a British accent is a "respected, LIFELONG Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian"......
Click to expand...




She knows him.  Hell, she knows his whole family.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> Goddamn, life long Harney County resident with an English accent. LOL


 Er..who said that, fool?

Meanwhile:


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Goddamn, life long Harney County resident with an English accent. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Er..who said that, fool?
> 
> Meanwhile:
Click to expand...

Why in the world anyone believe this story?


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Goddamn, life long Harney County resident with an English accent. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Er..who said that, fool?
> 
> Meanwhile:
Click to expand...

This sounds like more bullshit; just like your claim that some random guy in England is a long time Harney County resident.


----------



## Skylar

12icer said:


> Still haven't seen the dash cams from the cars, Has anyone? What about the body cams or radio recorders. They were all not working I guess. After all the victim WAS the wrong color. HAH now what. No need for that in this case I guess. Hey I have a whole new box of tinfoil if you liberal igmos need some to protect your last two brain cells.



What body cams and 'radio recorders'? 

And 'dash cams'? What relevance would they have been? Lavoy wasn't anywhere near them. 

But hey, you keep insinuating the existence of 'secret evidence' that you can't factually establishes actually exists....and we'll keep laughing. Just make sure you've got a liberal supply of tin foil.


----------



## Skylar

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Goddamn, life long Harney County resident with an English accent. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Er..who said that, fool?
> 
> Meanwhile:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This sounds like more bullshit; just like your claim that some random guy in England is a long time Harney County resident.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I talked to my buddy is a teacher in French Glenn. And he says that 40 of his students are terrified of the militia. And claim to be haunted by the ghost of Lavoy Finnicum......covered in a blue tarp. 

40 is more than 4, right?


----------



## koshergrl

http://www.nrtoday.com/news/20390674-113/roseburg-area-rancher-encounters-malheur-refuge-checkpoints


----------



## Vandalshandle

Not sure I know what is so bad about federal check points. Living 35 miles from the Mexican border, I have been crossing them at least once per week for years. All these guys are armed, and they have dogs, as well. Yet, nobody down here has ever occupied a federal facility and called for armed militia to help them end federal oppression. Am I hearing from the Right that we don't need them?


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Career Criminals*


The 10 men charged in Malheur occupation have criminal histories involving domestic violence, illegal firearm possession and terrorist threats

*Arrested Oregon militiamen have had extensive previous run-ins with the law*



Wes Kjar yells for more police footage in the death of Robert ‘LaVoy’ Finicum during a protest outside the Harney County Courthouse in Burns, Oregon on Monday. Photograph: Jim Urquhart/Reuters

The arrested militiamen of the Oregon refuge occupation have had extensive previous run-ins with the law – and a history of anti-government protests that federal officials are now using against them in court.


In recent filings in federal court in Portland, prosecutors have detailed the criminal histories of the 11 people facing felony charges for their involvement in the armed occupation of the Malheur national wildlife refuge, which began 2 January and continues to drag on this week with no end in sight.

The men’s rap sheets include cases of domestic violence, illegal firearm possession, terrorist threats, resisting arrest and drug crimes, according to the court records


----------



## koshergrl

Vandalshandle said:


> Not sure I know what is so bad about federal check points. Living 35 miles from the Mexican border, I have been crossing them at least once per week for years. All these guys are armed, and they have dogs, as well. Yet, nobody down here has ever occupied a federal facility and called for armed militia to help them end federal oppression. Am I hearing from the Right that we don't need them?


 Of course you don't, loser.


----------



## koshergrl

"Canyon City resident Tad Houpt, who organized the Jan. 26 meeting and invited the refuge occupiers, said he is planning another meeting, but he would not specify the date because he did not want the government “to assassinate some more speakers.” He said, after watching the FBI video of Finicum’s shooting, he was certain that is what happened.
“*They’re using tactics of war against the people of Grant and Harney counties, and that’s treason*,” he said. “When our government is at war with the people, that’s treason. The truth will come out on this in the long run.”

*#OregonStandoff: Justice or ambush?*


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> "Canyon City resident Tad Houpt, who organized the Jan. 26 meeting and invited the refuge occupiers, said he is planning another meeting, but he would not specify the date because he did not want the government “to assassinate some more speakers.” He said, after watching the FBI video of Finicum’s shooting, he was certain that is what happened.
> “*They’re using tactics of war against the people of Grant and Harney counties, and that’s treason*,” he said. “When our government is at war with the people, that’s treason. The truth will come out on this in the long run.”
> 
> *#OregonStandoff: Justice or ambush?*



How's this as a way of preventing the 'assassination of more speakers'.

1) Obey the law
2) Don't try and pull a gun to murder Oregon State Troopers.

Do either one of those two things and the odds of a 'speaker' being 'assassinated' is quite low.


----------



## Dot Com

koshergrl said:


> A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes  statist freaks  piss themselves....posted this
> 
> 
> 
> The guy I got this from is an unbelievably wonderful person...cowboy, rancher, family man, I think he might have done a stint working with the feds at some point. Statist men when faced with this sort of guy ( the man who asked ppl to watch this)don't know how to act. After pissing or crapping themselves, typically they sulk in a corner. I think old rock would probably cry and puke as well..y


why don't you stock up on snacks, move off of the grid, and become a sovereign citizen Allie?


----------



## bodecea

Vandalshandle said:


> Not sure I know what is so bad about federal check points. Living 35 miles from the Mexican border, I have been crossing them at least once per week for years. All these guys are armed, and they have dogs, as well. Yet, nobody down here has ever occupied a federal facility and called for armed militia to help them end federal oppression. Am I hearing from the Right that we don't need them?


Daryl Issa wanted them gone at one time.


----------



## bodecea

TyroneSlothrop said:


> *Career Criminals*
> 
> 
> The 10 men charged in Malheur occupation have criminal histories involving domestic violence, illegal firearm possession and terrorist threats
> 
> *Arrested Oregon militiamen have had extensive previous run-ins with the law*
> 
> 
> 
> Wes Kjar yells for more police footage in the death of Robert ‘LaVoy’ Finicum during a protest outside the Harney County Courthouse in Burns, Oregon on Monday. Photograph: Jim Urquhart/Reuters
> 
> The arrested militiamen of the Oregon refuge occupation have had extensive previous run-ins with the law – and a history of anti-government protests that federal officials are now using against them in court.
> 
> 
> In recent filings in federal court in Portland, prosecutors have detailed the criminal histories of the 11 people facing felony charges for their involvement in the armed occupation of the Malheur national wildlife refuge, which began 2 January and continues to drag on this week with no end in sight.
> 
> The men’s rap sheets include cases of domestic violence, illegal firearm possession, terrorist threats, resisting arrest and drug crimes, according to the court records


Thugs.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Goddamn, life long Harney County resident with an English accent. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Er..who said that, fool?
> 
> Meanwhile:
Click to expand...

Link? Or be known for another lie.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Roseburg area rancher encounters Malheur refuge checkpoints | NRToday.com


Roseburg area rancher encounters Malheur refuge checkpoints | NRToday.com

While traveling north in his red pickup between his ranch near Frenchglen at the base of the Steens Mountains and his ranch near Izee in the Ochoco Mountains, Spencer and his wife Veronica traveled through two roadblocks. The checkpoints had been set up by law enforcement officers following the Tuesday shooting of one refuge occupier and the arrest of several others. The rancher, whose Frenchglen ranch is just a half-hour drive south of the refuge headquarters and whose property borders with refuge land, said the stop at the first checkpoint was “scary.”

“*They were very professional and kind,* but when you have guns kind of pointing at you, it is scary,” Spencer said in describing the scene to The News-Review on Friday. “They (officers) were very, very cautious. They asked us to get out and keep our hands free. They were FBI, but they looked like Army personnel. There were snipers around.

“It felt like a checkpoint in a foreign country,” he continued. “There was no room for error. They asked for ID and ran our license plate. They asked me if I had a gun and I told them I did and where it was in the rig. I told them to help themselves as far as looking, but they actually barely looked around. I guess they were comfortable with who we were after checking our IDs and plate.”

The couple were then allowed to drive on and at the checkpoint north of the refuge, their travel was barely interrupted. They assumed the first checkpoint had called ahead and given them the OK for the northern stop.

*Sounds like a team of well trained professionals to me. And with those four crazies still holed up at the Refuge, calling for help from the other crazies, those checkpoints are necessary.*


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Roseburg area rancher encounters Malheur refuge checkpoints | NRToday.com


Roseburg area rancher encounters Malheur refuge checkpoints | NRToday.com

The 59-year-old Spencer, who grew up in Oakland and has been a rancher for close to 40 years, said he has dealt with federal agencies in his business operations and has had mixed results. He has a grazing permit with the Bureau of Land Management for his Steen Mountains ranch and a permit with the U.S. Forest Service for his Ochoco ranch.

“I’ve been on both sides of the issue,” he said. *“I basically have zero complaints with BLM. They’re been very, very good, easy to work with*. The Forest Service has been more challenging. They have a different attitude. It is like they’re looking for you to make a mistake rather than helping you. BLM coaches me on what to do while the Forest Service is getting more finicky. But I’ve always done what they’ve ask me to do.”

*Let's see, the people in Burns don't want the unfeathered loons around. This rancher states he has no complaints with the BLM, seems to blow a lot of your blather right out of the water.*


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> "Canyon City resident Tad Houpt, who organized the Jan. 26 meeting and invited the refuge occupiers, said he is planning another meeting, but he would not specify the date because he did not want the government “to assassinate some more speakers.” He said, after watching the FBI video of Finicum’s shooting, he was certain that is what happened.
> “*They’re using tactics of war against the people of Grant and Harney counties, and that’s treason*,” he said. “When our government is at war with the people, that’s treason. The truth will come out on this in the long run.”
> 
> *#OregonStandoff: Justice or ambush?*


So, Tad organized that meeting and set up the ambush for the law officers. Good for ol' Tad. Wonder if his bank account grew?


----------



## Camp

Look for indictments later today, lots of them.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Cry of the Militia: WAAAHHHH…But We Don’t Wanna Get Arrested!!*
February 3, 2016 
Cry of the Militia: WAAAHHHH…But We Don’t Wanna Get Arrested!! 

by Mike Ferner 

As the macho, gun-toting, testosterone-addled cowboys who took over the wildlife refuge in Oregon call it quits, their pitiful whine can be heard all the way to Florida:_ “Waaahhh…but we don’t wanna get arrested…”_ 

So much for the rugged-individualists and badass proponents of personal responsibility. Let’s see what happens as their armed insurrection winds down. How will the system treat the militant bullyboys? 

Will they get pepper-sprayed in the face as did the college students peacefully sitting in a driveway at UC Davis during Occupy protests, or shot in the head with a police projectile as did Veterans For Peace member Scott Olson in Oakland? 

Will they get two months in jail like Ed Kinane for stepping across a line at the School of the Americas; or six months in jail like grandmother Mary Anne Grady, for taking pictures of demonstrators outside the Reaper drone base in upstate NY; or a $20,000 fine like Kathy Kelly’s peace group, for taking medicine to people in Iraq before we invaded their country in 2003; or 10 years in prison for speaking out against the madness of World War One, like Gene Debs; 

More: 
Cry of the Militia: WAAAHHHH…But We Don’t Wanna Get Arrested!!


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Camp said:


> Look for indictments later today, lots of them.





*Grand jury indicts 16 people in connection with Oregon militant occupation*
A U.S. grand jury returned an indictment on Wednesday against 16 people in connection with the armed occupation of a wildlife refuge in Oregon, prosecutors said.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Feds look for new ways to fight ‘clear and present danger’ posed by domestic extremists
The U.S. Justice Department is considering legal changes to combat what it sees as a rising threat from domestic anti-government extremists, even as it steps up efforts to stop Islamic State-inspired attacks at home.


----------



## koshergrl

So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.


----------



## koshergrl

Tel me again why the only people whose opinions matter are the residents of Burns...who are government employees and officials, and are located abou thirrty miles from the refuge?

Statist tool.


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.




there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop 

complete with crossfire 

it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck


----------



## Skylar

jon_berzerk said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
Click to expand...


They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.

And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?


----------



## koshergrl

They ambushed the first stoo, too. Lavoy stopped, the guy in the other seat showed his hands and they shot at his head. One guy rolled out and was taken into custody....lavoy yelled that he was going to the sheriff and took off. No traffic..the entire purpose of the exercise was to kill at least one leader and prevent them from speaking to people who agree that the feds need to go.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> They ambushed the first stoo, too. Lavoy stopped, the guy in the other seat showed his hands and they shot at his head. One guy rolled out and was taken into custody....lavoy yelled that he was going to the sheriff and took off. No traffic..the entire purpose of the exercise was to kill at least one leader and prevent them from speaking to people who agree that the feds need to go.



They were pulled over. And as Ammon Bundy demonstrated elegantly, surrendering to a lawful warrant prevents any shootings. Or police chases. Or running of police blockades. 

The video was already released, Kosh. All 24 minutes of it. You can make up whatever fantasy you'd like. We can all see that Lavoy refused to surrender to a lawful warrant. And that the cops spent 7 full minutes trying to convince Lavoy to get out of his car to be arrested before he tore away and led them on a high speed chase.


----------



## teddyearp

High speed chase skylar?  You just lap up everything you're told, eh?

About how fast do you think he was going?  From the video that you've watched.


----------



## koshergrl

The truck took fire the whole time...at both stops. Ive seen the video, thank you. aMany, many, many times.


----------



## koshergrl

teddyearp said:


> High speed chase?  You just lap up everything your told, eh?
> 
> About how fast do you think he was going?  From the video that you've watched.


At least 40mph!!!!!! Crazy fast!!!!


----------



## Skylar

teddyearp said:


> High speed chase?  You just lap up everything your told, eh?
> 
> About how fast do you think he was going?  From the video that you've watched.



I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.

But you keep carrying water for wanna be cop killers.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> The truck took fire the whole time...at both stops. Ive seen the video, thank you. aMany, many, many times.



Was this before or after the police spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to exit the vehicle......with Lavoy responding by tearing away from the officers and trying to run a police blockade?


----------



## koshergrl

They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> High speed chase?  You just lap up everything your told, eh?
> 
> About how fast do you think he was going?  From the video that you've watched.
> 
> 
> 
> At least 40mph!!!!!! Crazy fast!!!!
Click to expand...

Fast enough to not be able to stop for the roadblock.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.



Except when they did try and arrest him and spent 7 full minutes trying to convince him to get out of his vehicle. Until he bolted, tore away from the officers and tried to run a police blockade.

As Ammon Bundy demonstrated elegantly, it was entirely possible to surrender to a lawful warrant without incident or a scratch on you.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> The truck took fire the whole time...at both stops. Ive seen the video, thank you. aMany, many, many times.


Was it your long time resident, British accent local guy who told you that?


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.


Roadblocks are designed to be set up similarly to an ambush in case a vehicle does not stop the way Finicum did not stop and attempted to go around and almost run over a trooper.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.


You crazy now.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> High speed chase?  You just lap up everything your told, eh?
> 
> About how fast do you think he was going?  From the video that you've watched.
> 
> 
> 
> At least 40mph!!!!!! Crazy fast!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fast enough to not be able to stop for the roadblock.
Click to expand...

So the rig didnt stop? lol you're a retard of bode proportions...


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> High speed chase?  You just lap up everything your told, eh?
> 
> About how fast do you think he was going?  From the video that you've watched.
> 
> 
> 
> At least 40mph!!!!!! Crazy fast!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fast enough to not be able to stop for the roadblock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So the rig didnt stop? lol you're a retard of bode proportions...
Click to expand...

You claim you've seen the video several times.   How is it then that you missed the truck having to skid into a snow bank?


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.


Nothing you have said in this thread ends up being reliable or accurate. Why do you expect anyone to believe your agenda driven misinformation and nonsense?


----------



## Skylar

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truck took fire the whole time...at both stops. Ive seen the video, thank you. aMany, many, many times.
> 
> 
> 
> Was it your long time resident, British accent local guy who told you that?
Click to expand...


Hey, at least she's getting sources who are closer to the event than Moscow this time. I haven't seen her cite Russian Government owned 'Sputnik News' for at least a couple of days.


----------



## Skylar

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.
> 
> 
> 
> You crazy now.
Click to expand...


This is such a worst case scenario for the militia wanna-bes. As we can see what happened. And see how utterly incompatible their narratives are to the video. 

The more furiously they polish that turd, the more they cover themselves in bullshit.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> High speed chase?  You just lap up everything your told, eh?
> 
> About how fast do you think he was going?  From the video that you've watched.
> 
> 
> 
> At least 40mph!!!!!! Crazy fast!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fast enough to not be able to stop for the roadblock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So the rig didnt stop? lol you're a retard of bode proportions...
Click to expand...

Ya, I saw it crash into a snow bank at a high rate of speed.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Speaking of assholes making trouble in Oregon, I sure wish I hadn't selected "extra hot" for the option on all that Thai food I ate last night.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> They ambushed the first stoo, too. Lavoy stopped, the guy in the other seat showed his hands and they shot at his head. One guy rolled out and was taken into custody....lavoy yelled that he was going to the sheriff and took off. No traffic..the entire purpose of the exercise was to kill at least one leader and prevent them from speaking to people who agree that the feds need to go.


There was no ambush, you tard. There was another vehicle they pulled over. Everyone in it got out peacefully and without incident. 

Had Lavoy done that, he'd still be alive today.

But then as he himself said, he'd rather be dead than go to jail. So rather than get out peacefully and turn himself into the custody of the police, he forced them into the position of having to kill him.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> They ambushed the first stoo, too. Lavoy stopped, the guy in the other seat showed his hands and they shot at his head. One guy rolled out and was taken into custody....lavoy yelled that he was going to the sheriff and took off. No traffic..the entire purpose of the exercise was to kill at least one leader and prevent them from speaking to people who agree that the feds need to go.


You're an idiot.  You think they set out to murder at least one of the occupiers ... so they videotape such a crime.


----------



## koshergrl

Dogmaphobe said:


> Speaking of assholes making trouble in Oregon, I sure wish I hadn't selected "extra hot" for the option on all that Thai food I ate last night.


hey now, this has been deemed a political, therefore not off topic, divisive or inflammatory (haha) thread.. The mods decided that as soon as they noticed the word "assholes" in the thread, which per site rules is against site rules...but according to the unspoken rules means its perfect for a protected forum.

I personally find it hilarious because it advertises the stupidity of the admin here, thus discouraging a disparate and intelligent community.


----------



## Camp

No one is even mentioning that LaVoy had a teenage girl with him. What was Festus doing with a teenage girl and why did he risk her life by being so stupid.


----------



## koshergrl

bodecea said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> High speed chase?  You just lap up everything your told, eh?
> 
> About how fast do you think he was going?  From the video that you've watched.
> 
> 
> 
> At least 40mph!!!!!! Crazy fast!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fast enough to not be able to stop for the roadblock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So the rig didnt stop? lol you're a retard of bode proportions...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You claim you've seen the video several times.   How is it then that you missed the truck having to skid into a snow bank?
Click to expand...

Also known as 'stopping'. Now we all understand exactly what 'retard of bode proportions' means.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> High speed chase?  You just lap up everything your told, eh?
> 
> About how fast do you think he was going?  From the video that you've watched.
> 
> 
> 
> At least 40mph!!!!!! Crazy fast!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fast enough to not be able to stop for the roadblock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So the rig didnt stop? lol you're a retard of bode proportions...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You claim you've seen the video several times.   How is it then that you missed the truck having to skid into a snow bank?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also known as 'stopping'. Now we all understand exactly what 'retard of bode proportions' means.
Click to expand...

Let us know when you get some inside info about the charges in those indictments and how long they will put your heroes in prison.


----------



## Faun

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> At least 40mph!!!!!! Crazy fast!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Fast enough to not be able to stop for the roadblock.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So the rig didnt stop? lol you're a retard of bode proportions...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You claim you've seen the video several times.   How is it then that you missed the truck having to skid into a snow bank?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also known as 'stopping'. Now we all understand exactly what 'retard of bode proportions' means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us know when you get some inside info about the charges in those indictments and how long they will put your heroes in prison.
Click to expand...

They should be put in the same cell block as the Hammonds.


----------



## Camp

Faun said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fast enough to not be able to stop for the roadblock.
> 
> 
> 
> So the rig didnt stop? lol you're a retard of bode proportions...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You claim you've seen the video several times.   How is it then that you missed the truck having to skid into a snow bank?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also known as 'stopping'. Now we all understand exactly what 'retard of bode proportions' means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let us know when you get some inside info about the charges in those indictments and how long they will put your heroes in prison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They should be put in the same cell block as the Hammonds.
Click to expand...

Ya, the Hammonds had a shot at a commuted sentence before the Bundy clan showed up.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Skylar said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
Click to expand...



no one is excusing anyone 

you dont have the facts loser


----------



## Carla_Danger

jon_berzerk said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> no one is excusing anyone
> 
> you dont have the facts loser
Click to expand...



It's on video.


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> no one is excusing anyone
> 
> you dont have the facts loser
Click to expand...

Sarah is giving the facts in Carla's signature. Just read her lips.


----------



## RodISHI

Skylar said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
Click to expand...

Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.


----------



## RodISHI

koshergrl said:


> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.


They tazed him first and shot him nine times according to the autopsy.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Carla_Danger said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> no one is excusing anyone
> 
> you dont have the facts loser
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's on video.
Click to expand...


a grainly edited drone video 

with his hands up 

caught in a crossfire 

witnesses say 120 shot had been fired at the truck prior to this


----------



## jon_berzerk

RodISHI said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.
> 
> 
> 
> They tazed him first and shot him nine times according to the autopsy.
Click to expand...



the cops said three times 

have not seen the autopsy 

have a link 

is this the governments autopsy 

or the families autopsy


----------



## jon_berzerk

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
Click to expand...


i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm 

over much more favorably sidearms


----------



## bodecea

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
Click to expand...

And your proof?


----------



## RodISHI

jon_berzerk said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.
> 
> 
> 
> They tazed him first and shot him nine times according to the autopsy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the cops said three times
> 
> have not seen the autopsy
> 
> have a link
> 
> is this the governments autopsy
> 
> or the families autopsy
Click to expand...

Reported from one of the attorney's for the defendants on the government autopsy.


----------



## RodISHI

jon_berzerk said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm
> 
> over much more favorably sidearms
Click to expand...

Lavoy was a rancher not a militia guy. The militia guys were originally there in Oregon protect a small family mining operation in 2014 and came to the assistance of ranchers that have been abused by BLM or others.


----------



## bodecea

RodISHI said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.
> 
> 
> 
> They tazed him first and shot him nine times according to the autopsy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the cops said three times
> 
> have not seen the autopsy
> 
> have a link
> 
> is this the governments autopsy
> 
> or the families autopsy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reported from one of the attorney's for the defendants on the government autopsy.
Click to expand...

Link?


----------



## bodecea

RodISHI said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm
> 
> over much more favorably sidearms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy was a rancher not a militia guy. The militia guys were originally there in Oregon protect a small family mining operation in 2014 and came to the assistance of ranchers that have been abused by BLM or others.
Click to expand...

A rancher of government $$$ from taking in foster children.


----------



## jon_berzerk

RodISHI said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm
> 
> over much more favorably sidearms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy was a rancher not a militia guy. The militia guys were originally there in Oregon protect a small family mining operation in 2014 and came to the assistance of ranchers that have been abused by BLM or others.
Click to expand...



i guess i would like to see whos name is the 4473 form 

for that alleged 9mm 

surely the ATF can figure that out


----------



## RodISHI

bodecea said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And your proof?
Click to expand...

I've been keeping up on this through the people recording onsite and I have friends who live and work in Oregon who are keeping me updated.


----------



## jon_berzerk

bodecea said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm
> 
> over much more favorably sidearms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy was a rancher not a militia guy. The militia guys were originally there in Oregon protect a small family mining operation in 2014 and came to the assistance of ranchers that have been abused by BLM or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A rancher of government $$$ from taking in foster children.
Click to expand...


your point is what


----------



## RodISHI

jon_berzerk said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm
> 
> over much more favorably sidearms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy was a rancher not a militia guy. The militia guys were originally there in Oregon protect a small family mining operation in 2014 and came to the assistance of ranchers that have been abused by BLM or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i guess i would like to see whos name is the 4473 form
> 
> for that alleged 9mm
> 
> surely the ATF can figure that out
Click to expand...

It came back as a reported stolen gun from two years previous.


----------



## jon_berzerk

RodISHI said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> 
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm
> 
> over much more favorably sidearms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy was a rancher not a militia guy. The militia guys were originally there in Oregon protect a small family mining operation in 2014 and came to the assistance of ranchers that have been abused by BLM or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i guess i would like to see whos name is the 4473 form
> 
> for that alleged 9mm
> 
> surely the ATF can figure that out
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It came back as a reported stolen gun from two years previous.
Click to expand...


imagine that


----------



## Carla_Danger

jon_berzerk said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> no one is excusing anyone
> 
> you dont have the facts loser
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's on video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a grainly edited drone video
> 
> with his hands up
> 
> caught in a crossfire
> 
> witnesses say 120 shot had been fired at the truck prior to this
Click to expand...




Oh, well I saw the unedited version, and his hands were not up, they were reaching in his coat.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Carla_Danger said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> no one is excusing anyone
> 
> you dont have the facts loser
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's on video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a grainly edited drone video
> 
> with his hands up
> 
> caught in a crossfire
> 
> witnesses say 120 shot had been fired at the truck prior to this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, well I saw the unedited version, and his hands were not up, they were reaching in his coat.
Click to expand...


after he was blasted in the gut


----------



## RodISHI

bodecea said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm
> 
> over much more favorably sidearms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy was a rancher not a militia guy. The militia guys were originally there in Oregon protect a small family mining operation in 2014 and came to the assistance of ranchers that have been abused by BLM or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A rancher of government $$$ from taking in foster children.
Click to expand...

I supposed you do not think when children need a place to go someone should not be providing services and they surely should not recieve payment for taking in those kids. You really can be a hypocr


bodecea said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.
> 
> 
> 
> They tazed him first and shot him nine times according to the autopsy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the cops said three times
> 
> have not seen the autopsy
> 
> have a link
> 
> is this the governments autopsy
> 
> or the families autopsy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reported from one of the attorney's for the defendants on the government autopsy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
Click to expand...

You have a computer right? Do a little research it does work.


----------



## Carla_Danger

RodISHI said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And your proof?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've been keeping up on this through the people recording onsite and I have friends who live and work in Oregon who are keeping me updated.
Click to expand...




You and Koshergirl should get together. I bet you know some of the same people, who knows some people, and those people know all about this situation.


----------



## Faun

RodISHI said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.
> 
> 
> 
> They tazed him first and shot him nine times according to the autopsy.
Click to expand...

Link to the autopsy......


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm
> 
> over much more favorably sidearms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy was a rancher not a militia guy. The militia guys were originally there in Oregon protect a small family mining operation in 2014 and came to the assistance of ranchers that have been abused by BLM or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i guess i would like to see whos name is the 4473 form
> 
> for that alleged 9mm
> 
> surely the ATF can figure that out
Click to expand...

I'm sure they can......and tell us how YOU can.


----------



## bodecea

RodISHI said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> 
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm
> 
> over much more favorably sidearms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy was a rancher not a militia guy. The militia guys were originally there in Oregon protect a small family mining operation in 2014 and came to the assistance of ranchers that have been abused by BLM or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A rancher of government $$$ from taking in foster children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I supposed you do not think when children need a place to go someone should not be providing services and they surely should not recieve payment for taking in those kids. You really can be a hypocr
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They didnt try to arrest him, they didnt speak at all. They had snipers in the trees and at least three on the ground who shot him. He was shot in the hip, the side, and the face.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They tazed him first and shot him nine times according to the autopsy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the cops said three times
> 
> have not seen the autopsy
> 
> have a link
> 
> is this the governments autopsy
> 
> or the families autopsy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reported from one of the attorney's for the defendants on the government autopsy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have a computer right? Do a little research it does work.
Click to expand...

So you have nothing but your own made up fantasies.  Color me surprised.  Really really surprised.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no one is excusing anyone
> 
> you dont have the facts loser
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's on video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a grainly edited drone video
> 
> with his hands up
> 
> caught in a crossfire
> 
> witnesses say 120 shot had been fired at the truck prior to this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, well I saw the unedited version, and his hands were not up, they were reaching in his coat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> after he was blasted in the gut
Click to expand...

Bullshit.


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> 
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i do not know why a  prudent "militia" guy would have a 9mm
> 
> over much more favorably sidearms
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy was a rancher not a militia guy. The militia guys were originally there in Oregon protect a small family mining operation in 2014 and came to the assistance of ranchers that have been abused by BLM or others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A rancher of government $$$ from taking in foster children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> your point is what
Click to expand...

I'm sorry for your lack of knowledge.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jon_berzerk said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no one is excusing anyone
> 
> you dont have the facts loser
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's on video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a grainly edited drone video
> 
> with his hands up
> 
> caught in a crossfire
> 
> witnesses say 120 shot had been fired at the truck prior to this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, well I saw the unedited version, and his hands were not up, they were reaching in his coat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> after he was blasted in the gut
Click to expand...



He went down when he was blasted in the gut. He had his hands down before that.


----------



## Carla_Danger

jon_berzerk said:


> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no one is excusing anyone
> 
> you dont have the facts loser
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's on video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a grainly edited drone video
> 
> with his hands up
> 
> caught in a crossfire
> 
> witnesses say 120 shot had been fired at the truck prior to this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, well I saw the unedited version, and his hands were not up, they were reaching in his coat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> after he was blasted in the gut
Click to expand...



No, that's not what the video shows.


----------



## RodISHI

Here is some information for the nay sayer crowd to get you started. For Faun; I am from the west and have family and friends in California, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Washington and Utah. Some of those still live on ranches; you are free to think whatever you like but it does not mean your thoughts are correct.

http://ice9.securenetsystems.net/media/KSDZ/ondemand/Update-from-Oregon-with-Lory-Storm.m4a

Finicum family statement2.pdf

Archives


----------



## Skylar

Carla_Danger said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> no one is excusing anyone
> 
> you dont have the facts loser
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's on video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a grainly edited drone video
> 
> with his hands up
> 
> caught in a crossfire
> 
> witnesses say 120 shot had been fired at the truck prior to this
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, well I saw the unedited version, and his hands were not up, they were reaching in his coat.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> after he was blasted in the gut
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's not what the video shows.
Click to expand...


Nope, its not. This scenario is a worst case for the militia wanna-bes. Anyone can view the video and compare it to the nonsense narrative of the militia worshipers.

And see, first hand, how utterly  devoid of reason and evidence their claims actually are. How wildly paranoid, irrational, and hysteric the militia wanna-bes are. And how they lionize and laud a man to was trying to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper. 

There's nothing the FBI could do to the militia movement that's worse than what they're doing to themselves right now


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
Click to expand...

I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
Click to expand...

Self defense is not murder.


----------



## Camp

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit the feds are ambushing ranchers. Progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there certainly was an ambush set up at the second stop
> 
> complete with crossfire
> 
> it will be interesting to see how many bullet holes are in the truck
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They spent 7 minutes trying to get Lavoy to surrender to a lawful probable cause warrant. He refused and led them on a high speed chase. Then tried to run a police blockade. Then tried to pull a 9mm pistol and murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> And you're *still* trying to excuse this piece of shit?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lavoy did not own a 9mm pistol so you are full of shit.
Click to expand...

Maybe he borrowed it from the little teenage girl he was hauling around.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
Click to expand...

You say that like you think folks pay attention to stuff you post as if it had merit and might stand up to even minor scrutiny.


----------



## Skylar

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You say that like you think folks pay attention to stuff you post as if it had merit and might stand up to even minor scrutiny.
Click to expand...


You mean if the federal government doesn't use a building for 24 hours, its NOT abandoned under the law?

Say it ain't so, JC.


----------



## AceRothstein

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
Click to expand...

Are you fucking retarded?


----------



## Skylar

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
Click to expand...


Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.

My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
Click to expand...

let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.


----------



## jc456

AceRothstein said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
Click to expand...

no, of late I'm not fking at the moment. I am, however, posting in a forum full of libturds who know very little about threats.  And those said libturds not able to post up valid factual information.


----------



## Faun

AceRothstein said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
Click to expand...

Yes, he is. Very much so.


----------



## Faun

Skylar said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
Click to expand...

Umm.. the police shot Finicum in self defense.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, he is. Very much so.
Click to expand...

you don't have any balls eh?  you got something to say to me say it you fk.  I know for most of the time you're on here, you say nothing.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, of late I'm not fking at the moment. I am, however, posting in a forum full of libturds who know very little about threats.  And those said libturds not able to post up valid factual information.
Click to expand...

Here is a bit of factual information. Everyone thinks you are a dufus jackass. Can't get more factual than that.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.
Click to expand...


Laughing.....how fucking lazy are you? You don't deny the video exists. You just don't want to be bothered to spend the 2 minutes to find it.

I'm looking right at it. Its 26 minutes and 28 seconds long titled "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016" published on Jan 28, 2016 on youtube.

Go find it yourself, you lazy fk.


----------



## Skylar

Faun said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Umm.. the police shot Finicum in self defense.
Click to expand...


Read my post again. Arguably, the third sentence could have been written better. But its accurate.

Here it is again, slightly clearer 

 The Oregon State Trooper who Finnicum was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Umm.. the police shot Finicum in self defense.
Click to expand...


they did, hmm I could actually see that, the weak as suckers drawing in their prey and then not knowing what it was they actually captured in their trap.  hahahahahahahaha, yep and old man unarmed, better shoot that fker cause he may age em to death.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> 
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....how fucking lazy are you? You don't deny the video exists. You just don't want to be bothered to spend the 2 minutes to find it.
> 
> I'm looking right at it. Its 26 minutes and 28 seconds long titled "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016" published on Jan 28, 2016 on youtube.
> 
> Go find it yourself, you lazy fk.
Click to expand...

you have no video that shows him reaching for anything other than the ground as he falls.  But you keep going with that, and I'll keep rebutting your dumb ass.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, he is. Very much so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you don't have any balls eh?  you got something to say to me say it you fk.  I know for most of the time you're on here, you say nothing.
Click to expand...

LOL

I'm fairly confident I've already called you a fucking retard. I'm merely confirming the observation of others who have come to the same conclusion based on your retarded posts.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....how fucking lazy are you? You don't deny the video exists. You just don't want to be bothered to spend the 2 minutes to find it.
> 
> I'm looking right at it. Its 26 minutes and 28 seconds long titled "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016" published on Jan 28, 2016 on youtube.
> 
> Go find it yourself, you lazy fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no video that shows him reaching for anything other than the ground as he falls.  But you keep going with that, and I'll keep rebutting your dumb ass.
Click to expand...


Reaching for the ground....._while standing_? 

Sigh......that's got to be the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. You can't be bothered to just go to youtube and look at the video. How is your desperate, willful ignorance our problem?


----------



## Skylar

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> 
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, he is. Very much so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you don't have any balls eh?  you got something to say to me say it you fk.  I know for most of the time you're on here, you say nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL
> 
> I'm fairly confident I've already called you a fucking retard. I'm merely confirming the observation of others who have come to the same conclusion based on your retarded posts.
Click to expand...


I second 'fucking retard'.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> 
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Umm.. the police shot Finicum in self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they did, hmm I could actually see that, the weak as suckers drawing in their prey and then not knowing what it was they actually captured in their trap.  hahahahahahahaha, yep and old man unarmed, better shoot that fker cause he may age em to death.
Click to expand...

Lying that he was unarmed doesn't actually help your position.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....how fucking lazy are you? You don't deny the video exists. You just don't want to be bothered to spend the 2 minutes to find it.
> 
> I'm looking right at it. Its 26 minutes and 28 seconds long titled "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016" published on Jan 28, 2016 on youtube.
> 
> Go find it yourself, you lazy fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no video that shows him reaching for anything other than the ground as he falls.  But you keep going with that, and I'll keep rebutting your dumb ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reaching for the ground....._while standing_?
> 
> Sigh......that's got to be the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. You can't be bothered to just go to youtube and look at the video. How is your desperate, willful ignorance our problem?
Click to expand...

what the fk are you talking about, I looked at all the video, and to date not one shows what you say.  Sorry fk, you're in error. Unless of course you have one that can zoom in.  You have one of those?  how about the audio yet, you got that? If not then yeah, i've seen them and doesn't back your claim at all.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, he is. Very much so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you don't have any balls eh?  you got something to say to me say it you fk.  I know for most of the time you're on here, you say nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL
> 
> I'm fairly confident I've already called you a fucking retard. I'm merely confirming the observation of others who have come to the same conclusion based on your retarded posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I second 'fucking retard'.
Click to expand...

you guys are fking busy then eh?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Umm.. the police shot Finicum in self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they did, hmm I could actually see that, the weak as suckers drawing in their prey and then not knowing what it was they actually captured in their trap.  hahahahahahahaha, yep and old man unarmed, better shoot that fker cause he may age em to death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lying that he was unarmed doesn't actually help your position.
Click to expand...

was there a gun in his hand?  If not, he was unarmed.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....how fucking lazy are you? You don't deny the video exists. You just don't want to be bothered to spend the 2 minutes to find it.
> 
> I'm looking right at it. Its 26 minutes and 28 seconds long titled "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016" published on Jan 28, 2016 on youtube.
> 
> Go find it yourself, you lazy fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no video that shows him reaching for anything other than the ground as he falls.  But you keep going with that, and I'll keep rebutting your dumb ass.
Click to expand...

The whole world has the video idiot. They even have it in enlarged slow motion. You are a disgrace to the memory of Slow Draw Festus Lavoy and his teenage girlfriend.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, he is. Very much so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you don't have any balls eh?  you got something to say to me say it you fk.  I know for most of the time you're on here, you say nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL
> 
> I'm fairly confident I've already called you a fucking retard. I'm merely confirming the observation of others who have come to the same conclusion based on your retarded posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I second 'fucking retard'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you guys are fking busy then eh?
Click to expand...


Dude....you denied that Finnicum was armed. That's retarded. They found a pistol in the very pocket he was reaching for. You refuse to watch the video the FBI posted of the entire operation. That's fucking retarded. 

And don't get me started about your 'abandoned under the law' idiocy.


----------



## Skylar

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....how fucking lazy are you? You don't deny the video exists. You just don't want to be bothered to spend the 2 minutes to find it.
> 
> I'm looking right at it. Its 26 minutes and 28 seconds long titled "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016" published on Jan 28, 2016 on youtube.
> 
> Go find it yourself, you lazy fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no video that shows him reaching for anything other than the ground as he falls.  But you keep going with that, and I'll keep rebutting your dumb ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The whole world has the video idiot. They even have it in enlarged slow motion. You are a disgrace to the memory of Slow Draw Festus Lavoy and his teenage girlfriend.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but if he refuses to watch the video, he can just imagine whatever he wants.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....how fucking lazy are you? You don't deny the video exists. You just don't want to be bothered to spend the 2 minutes to find it.
> 
> I'm looking right at it. Its 26 minutes and 28 seconds long titled "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016" published on Jan 28, 2016 on youtube.
> 
> Go find it yourself, you lazy fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no video that shows him reaching for anything other than the ground as he falls.  But you keep going with that, and I'll keep rebutting your dumb ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The whole world has the video idiot. They even have it in enlarged slow motion. You are a disgrace to the memory of Slow Draw Festus Lavoy and his teenage girlfriend.
Click to expand...

I said zoom, enlarged is not zoom.  I saw the slow motion and it still doesn't back your claim.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, he is. Very much so.
> 
> 
> 
> you don't have any balls eh?  you got something to say to me say it you fk.  I know for most of the time you're on here, you say nothing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL
> 
> I'm fairly confident I've already called you a fucking retard. I'm merely confirming the observation of others who have come to the same conclusion based on your retarded posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I second 'fucking retard'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you guys are fking busy then eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude....you denied that Finnicum was armed. That's retarded. They found a pistol in the very pocket he was reaching for. You refuse to watch the video the FBI posted of the entire operation. That's fucking retarded.
> 
> And don't get me started about your 'abandoned under the law' idiocy.
Click to expand...

here, let me state a third, fourth and fifth time, he had no gun in his hands.  unarmed.


----------



## jc456

Skylar said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> 
> 
> let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....how fucking lazy are you? You don't deny the video exists. You just don't want to be bothered to spend the 2 minutes to find it.
> 
> I'm looking right at it. Its 26 minutes and 28 seconds long titled "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016" published on Jan 28, 2016 on youtube.
> 
> Go find it yourself, you lazy fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no video that shows him reaching for anything other than the ground as he falls.  But you keep going with that, and I'll keep rebutting your dumb ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The whole world has the video idiot. They even have it in enlarged slow motion. You are a disgrace to the memory of Slow Draw Festus Lavoy and his teenage girlfriend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, but if he refuses to watch the video, he can just imagine whatever he wants.
Click to expand...

hahahahahahahahahahhaa post one up fk


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
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> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
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> Skylar said:
> 
> 
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> Faun said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you don't have any balls eh?  you got something to say to me say it you fk.  I know for most of the time you're on here, you say nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> I'm fairly confident I've already called you a fucking retard. I'm merely confirming the observation of others who have come to the same conclusion based on your retarded posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I second 'fucking retard'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you guys are fking busy then eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude....you denied that Finnicum was armed. That's retarded. They found a pistol in the very pocket he was reaching for. You refuse to watch the video the FBI posted of the entire operation. That's fucking retarded.
> 
> And don't get me started about your 'abandoned under the law' idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> here, let me state a third, fourth and fifth time, he had no gun in his hands.  unarmed.
Click to expand...


He was reaching for a gun. Armed. 

Remember, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Anyone can watch the video and demonstrate for themselves that you're clueless.

This is a worst case scenario for you militia fucks. As the video offers demonstrable evidence that you're delusional, paranoid, irrational fools. And can't be trusted. As if the militia backpedalling once the FBI announced they had a video wasn't demonstration enough.


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laughing.....how fucking lazy are you? You don't deny the video exists. You just don't want to be bothered to spend the 2 minutes to find it.
> 
> I'm looking right at it. Its 26 minutes and 28 seconds long titled "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016" published on Jan 28, 2016 on youtube.
> 
> Go find it yourself, you lazy fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no video that shows him reaching for anything other than the ground as he falls.  But you keep going with that, and I'll keep rebutting your dumb ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The whole world has the video idiot. They even have it in enlarged slow motion. You are a disgrace to the memory of Slow Draw Festus Lavoy and his teenage girlfriend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, but if he refuses to watch the video, he can just imagine whatever he wants.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahahahahahahahahhaa post one up fk
Click to expand...

 
You refuse to watch the video, or even look it up. And now insist that unless I post if for you, it doesn't exist?

Laughing......good luck with that. Though certainly you'll understand why the militia movement is a national laughing stock. And should be.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Umm.. the police shot Finicum in self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they did, hmm I could actually see that, the weak as suckers drawing in their prey and then not knowing what it was they actually captured in their trap.  hahahahahahahaha, yep and old man unarmed, better shoot that fker cause he may age em to death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lying that he was unarmed doesn't actually help your position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> was there a gun in his hand?  If not, he was unarmed.
Click to expand...

See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
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> 
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> 
> 
> Umm.. the police shot Finicum in self defense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they did, hmm I could actually see that, the weak as suckers drawing in their prey and then not knowing what it was they actually captured in their trap.  hahahahahahahaha, yep and old man unarmed, better shoot that fker cause he may age em to death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lying that he was unarmed doesn't actually help your position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> was there a gun in his hand?  If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.
Click to expand...

I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.


----------



## Faun

Seems JC is intent on proving he's not a fucking retard -- by demonstrating he's far more insane than a fucking retard.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> Seems JC is intent on proving he's not a fucking retard -- by demonstrating he's far more insane than a fucking retard.


I see you have nothing of real substance that you can use as evidence.  so there isn't more to discuss.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
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> Faun said:
> 
> 
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Umm.. the police shot Finicum in self defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they did, hmm I could actually see that, the weak as suckers drawing in their prey and then not knowing what it was they actually captured in their trap.  hahahahahahahaha, yep and old man unarmed, better shoot that fker cause he may age em to death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lying that he was unarmed doesn't actually help your position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> was there a gun in his hand?  If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
Click to expand...

Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.

Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems JC is intent on proving he's not a fucking retard -- by demonstrating he's far more insane than a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see you have nothing of real substance that you can use as evidence.  so there isn't more to discuss.
Click to expand...

Your posts are the evidence of my astute observations.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems JC is intent on proving he's not a fucking retard -- by demonstrating he's far more insane than a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see you have nothing of real substance that you can use as evidence.  so there isn't more to discuss.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your posts are the evidence of my astute observations.
Click to expand...

and you still have nothing.  So, what the fk?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
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> 
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> jc456 said:
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> 
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> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> they did, hmm I could actually see that, the weak as suckers drawing in their prey and then not knowing what it was they actually captured in their trap.  hahahahahahahaha, yep and old man unarmed, better shoot that fker cause he may age em to death.
> 
> 
> 
> Lying that he was unarmed doesn't actually help your position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> was there a gun in his hand?  If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
Click to expand...

you never said whether he had a gun in his hand or not.


----------



## RodISHI

Skylar said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> I'm fairly confident I've already called you a fucking retard. I'm merely confirming the observation of others who have come to the same conclusion based on your retarded posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I second 'fucking retard'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you guys are fking busy then eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude....you denied that Finnicum was armed. That's retarded. They found a pistol in the very pocket he was reaching for. You refuse to watch the video the FBI posted of the entire operation. That's fucking retarded.
> 
> And don't get me started about your 'abandoned under the law' idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> here, let me state a third, fourth and fifth time, he had no gun in his hands.  unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was reaching for a gun. Armed.
> 
> Remember, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Anyone can watch the video and demonstrate for themselves that you're clueless.
> 
> This is a worst case scenario for you militia fucks. As the video offers demonstrable evidence that you're delusional, paranoid, irrational fools. And can't be trusted. As if the militia backpedalling once the FBI announced they had a video wasn't demonstration enough.
Click to expand...

Actually it demonstrates that you agree with murdering an unarmed rancher. Again he was not militia and every news outlet that calls Lavoy anything but a rancher proves themselves to be nothing more than liars and shills not worth listening to or watching. If you can't tell the truth it is possible you do not know what it is. This thing has been coming about for years. If you want to support the UN and their gestapo tactics you have that right but do not expect everyone else to go along with you.


----------



## AceRothstein

jc456 said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
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> Skylar said:
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> Faun said:
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> 
> 
> Self defense is not murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Lavoy Finnicum was a wanna-be cop killer. The Oregon State Trooper he was trying to pull a gun out to murder shot him before Lavoy could hurt any cop.
> 
> My sympathies are with the officer and his family. Taking a life is something that Trooper is going to have to live with for the rest of his own. Even if he had no choice but to save his own life by taking that of the wanna-be cop killer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> let's see that video?  The one already posted up does not show this so please any time now, post up that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Laughing.....how fucking lazy are you? You don't deny the video exists. You just don't want to be bothered to spend the 2 minutes to find it.
> 
> I'm looking right at it. Its 26 minutes and 28 seconds long titled "Complete, Unedited Video of Joint FBI and OSP Operation 01/26/2016" published on Jan 28, 2016 on youtube.
> 
> Go find it yourself, you lazy fk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> you have no video that shows him reaching for anything other than the ground as he falls.  But you keep going with that, and I'll keep rebutting your dumb ass.
Click to expand...

Retard confirmed.


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> they did, hmm I could actually see that, the weak as suckers drawing in their prey and then not knowing what it was they actually captured in their trap.  hahahahahahahaha, yep and old man unarmed, better shoot that fker cause he may age em to death.
> 
> 
> 
> Lying that he was unarmed doesn't actually help your position.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> was there a gun in his hand?  If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
Click to expand...

 Where did he say that?????


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lying that he was unarmed doesn't actually help your position.
> 
> 
> 
> was there a gun in his hand?  If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did he say that?????
Click to expand...

When he said Finicum was unarmed.


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> was there a gun in his hand?  If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> 
> 
> See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did he say that?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When he said Finicum was unarmed.
Click to expand...

 I didn't see him say that. Quote and link, please.

Meanwhile...

In the real world...

The BLM is being advised, nicely for the time being, that their services are neither wanted, warranted...nor legal, and they need to get the fuck off land that belongs to others.

Lane County commmissioners agree to help fund lawsuit against BLM Western Oregon management plan | Local | Eugene, Oregon


----------



## Skylar

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I second 'fucking retard'.
> 
> 
> 
> you guys are fking busy then eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude....you denied that Finnicum was armed. That's retarded. They found a pistol in the very pocket he was reaching for. You refuse to watch the video the FBI posted of the entire operation. That's fucking retarded.
> 
> And don't get me started about your 'abandoned under the law' idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> here, let me state a third, fourth and fifth time, he had no gun in his hands.  unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was reaching for a gun. Armed.
> 
> Remember, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Anyone can watch the video and demonstrate for themselves that you're clueless.
> 
> This is a worst case scenario for you militia fucks. As the video offers demonstrable evidence that you're delusional, paranoid, irrational fools. And can't be trusted. As if the militia backpedalling once the FBI announced they had a video wasn't demonstration enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it demonstrates that you agree with murdering an unarmed rancher. Again he was not militia and every news outlet that calls Lavoy anything but a rancher proves themselves to be nothing more than liars and shills not worth listening to or watching. If you can't tell the truth it is possible you do not know what it is. This thing has been coming about for years. If you want to support the UN and their gestapo tactics you have that right but do not expect everyone else to go along with you.
Click to expand...


They found a 9mm pistol in the pocket that Finicum was reaching for. One that resisted arrest, refused to surrender to police, lead them on a high speech chase, tried to run a police blockade......and ended with him reaching for a gun to murder an Oregon State Patrolman. 

Claiming he was 'unarmed' because he couldn't get the gun out of his pocket fast enough to murder the Officer is laughable.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

koshergrl said:


> Meanwhile...
> 
> In the real world...


* READ: Fed Indictment Against Militiamen Unsealed *


----------



## Skylar

TyroneSlothrop said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> In the real world...
> 
> 
> 
> * READ: Fed Indictment Against Militiamen Unsealed *
Click to expand...


There's the indictment. Filed the February 3nd.

The arrests were January 26th.

Now I'm not math whiz, but I'm pretty sure that February 3nd comes *after* January 26th. Not before it.

Making our resident militia groupies 'conspiracy' about why Finicium's name wasn't in the indictment rather obvious. Lavoy is dead. You don't indict deadmen.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

key court documents filed following the arrests of 11 co-defendants accused of conspiring in the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in January.


----------



## bodecea

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I second 'fucking retard'.
> 
> 
> 
> you guys are fking busy then eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dude....you denied that Finnicum was armed. That's retarded. They found a pistol in the very pocket he was reaching for. You refuse to watch the video the FBI posted of the entire operation. That's fucking retarded.
> 
> And don't get me started about your 'abandoned under the law' idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> here, let me state a third, fourth and fifth time, he had no gun in his hands.  unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was reaching for a gun. Armed.
> 
> Remember, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Anyone can watch the video and demonstrate for themselves that you're clueless.
> 
> This is a worst case scenario for you militia fucks. As the video offers demonstrable evidence that you're delusional, paranoid, irrational fools. And can't be trusted. As if the militia backpedalling once the FBI announced they had a video wasn't demonstration enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it demonstrates that you agree with murdering an unarmed rancher. Again he was not militia and every news outlet that calls Lavoy anything but a rancher proves themselves to be nothing more than liars and shills not worth listening to or watching. If you can't tell the truth it is possible you do not know what it is. This thing has been coming about for years. If you want to support the UN and their gestapo tactics you have that right but do not expect everyone else to go along with you.
Click to expand...

He was not unarmed.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lying that he was unarmed doesn't actually help your position.
> 
> 
> 
> was there a gun in his hand?  If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did he say that?????
Click to expand...




jc456 said:


> was there a gun in his hand? If not, he was unarmed.


----------



## bodecea

Hutch Starskey said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> was there a gun in his hand?  If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> 
> 
> See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did he say that?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> was there a gun in his hand? If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

New definition...if a gun is not in your hand, you are "unarmed"?   cool


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.
> 
> 
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did he say that?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When he said Finicum was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see him say that. Quote and link, please.
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> In the real world...
> 
> The BLM is being advised, nicely for the time being, that their services are neither wanted, warranted...nor legal, and they need to get the fuck off land that belongs to others.
> 
> Lane County commmissioners agree to help fund lawsuit against BLM Western Oregon management plan | Local | Eugene, Oregon
Click to expand...

It's in the quote you posted even. 

_"was there a gun in his hand? *If not, he was unarmed*." ~ an idiot_​


----------



## Faun

bodecea said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> See that? Right there is one of your posts which reaffirms you're a fucking retard. Hell, I just a moment ago point out how your own posts demonstrate it; and here you go, proving me right again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking retard.... a person carrying a side arm is armed. The firearm need not be in their hand for them to be armed.
> 
> 
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did he say that?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> was there a gun in his hand? If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> New definition...if a gun is not in your hand, you are "unarmed"?   cool
Click to expand...

Fucking retards have their own definition for words.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

bodecea said:


> New definition...if a gun is not in your hand, you are "unarmed"?   cool


If you are carrying a concealed weapon you are unarmed..........


----------



## Montrovant

Wow.  I thought I'd take a look at the end of this thread to see what is going on in it this far after the event, and I find out that some people considering not having a gun in your hand to be unarmed.


----------



## koshergrl

Sooooo...we don't have a quotation of him actually saying t


Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did he say that?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When he said Finicum was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see him say that. Quote and link, please.
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> In the real world...
> 
> The BLM is being advised, nicely for the time being, that their services are neither wanted, warranted...nor legal, and they need to get the fuck off land that belongs to others.
> 
> Lane County commmissioners agree to help fund lawsuit against BLM Western Oregon management plan | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's in the quote you posted even.
> 
> _"was there a gun in his hand? *If not, he was unarmed*." ~ an idiot_​
Click to expand...

 
You fucking idiot. That's a definition of the term.


----------



## bodecea

koshergrl said:


> Sooooo...we don't have a quotation of him actually saying t
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did he say that?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When he said Finicum was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see him say that. Quote and link, please.
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> In the real world...
> 
> The BLM is being advised, nicely for the time being, that their services are neither wanted, warranted...nor legal, and they need to get the fuck off land that belongs to others.
> 
> Lane County commmissioners agree to help fund lawsuit against BLM Western Oregon management plan | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's in the quote you posted even.
> 
> _"was there a gun in his hand? *If not, he was unarmed*." ~ an idiot_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You fucking idiot. That's a definition of the term.
Click to expand...

Yep...that's pretty much what we'd expect from you Allie.  Tell us more about the long time resident of that area that speaks with an English accent....from England.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Sooooo...we don't have a quotation of him actually saying t
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did he say that?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When he said Finicum was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see him say that. Quote and link, please.
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> In the real world...
> 
> The BLM is being advised, nicely for the time being, that their services are neither wanted, warranted...nor legal, and they need to get the fuck off land that belongs to others.
> 
> Lane County commmissioners agree to help fund lawsuit against BLM Western Oregon management plan | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's in the quote you posted even.
> 
> _"was there a gun in his hand? *If not, he was unarmed*." ~ an idiot_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You fucking idiot. That's a definition of the term.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the deranged conservative lesson. Now for the in English...

armed

_furnished with weapons_​
See that? One need not be holding a gun in their hand to be armed. Being furnished with one is sufficient.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo...we don't have a quotation of him actually saying t
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where did he say that?????
> 
> 
> 
> When he said Finicum was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't see him say that. Quote and link, please.
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> In the real world...
> 
> The BLM is being advised, nicely for the time being, that their services are neither wanted, warranted...nor legal, and they need to get the fuck off land that belongs to others.
> 
> Lane County commmissioners agree to help fund lawsuit against BLM Western Oregon management plan | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's in the quote you posted even.
> 
> _"was there a gun in his hand? *If not, he was unarmed*." ~ an idiot_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You fucking idiot. That's a definition of the term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the deranged conservative lesson. Now for the in English...
> 
> armed
> 
> _furnished with weapons_​
> See that? One need not be holding a gun in their hand to be armed. Being furnished with one is sufficient.
Click to expand...

Well I'm still waiting for proof, and you haven't provided it


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said he had a gun or not yet fool, I merely asked you if he had a gun in his hand.  you never answered.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where did he say that?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> was there a gun in his hand? If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> New definition...if a gun is not in your hand, you are "unarmed"?   cool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fucking retards have their own definition for words.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we're allowed as you are fk


----------



## Skylar

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo...we don't have a quotation of him actually saying t
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> When he said Finicum was unarmed.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see him say that. Quote and link, please.
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> In the real world...
> 
> The BLM is being advised, nicely for the time being, that their services are neither wanted, warranted...nor legal, and they need to get the fuck off land that belongs to others.
> 
> Lane County commmissioners agree to help fund lawsuit against BLM Western Oregon management plan | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's in the quote you posted even.
> 
> _"was there a gun in his hand? *If not, he was unarmed*." ~ an idiot_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You fucking idiot. That's a definition of the term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the deranged conservative lesson. Now for the in English...
> 
> armed
> 
> _furnished with weapons_​
> See that? One need not be holding a gun in their hand to be armed. Being furnished with one is sufficient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I'm still waiting for proof, and you haven't provided it
Click to expand...


Laughing....is this your little conspiracy again, where you start babbling about how the FBI planted the gun?


----------



## RodISHI

Skylar said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> you guys are fking busy then eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude....you denied that Finnicum was armed. That's retarded. They found a pistol in the very pocket he was reaching for. You refuse to watch the video the FBI posted of the entire operation. That's fucking retarded.
> 
> And don't get me started about your 'abandoned under the law' idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> here, let me state a third, fourth and fifth time, he had no gun in his hands.  unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was reaching for a gun. Armed.
> 
> Remember, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Anyone can watch the video and demonstrate for themselves that you're clueless.
> 
> This is a worst case scenario for you militia fucks. As the video offers demonstrable evidence that you're delusional, paranoid, irrational fools. And can't be trusted. As if the militia backpedalling once the FBI announced they had a video wasn't demonstration enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it demonstrates that you agree with murdering an unarmed rancher. Again he was not militia and every news outlet that calls Lavoy anything but a rancher proves themselves to be nothing more than liars and shills not worth listening to or watching. If you can't tell the truth it is possible you do not know what it is. This thing has been coming about for years. If you want to support the UN and their gestapo tactics you have that right but do not expect everyone else to go along with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They found a 9mm pistol in the pocket that Finicum was reaching for. One that resisted arrest, refused to surrender to police, lead them on a high speech chase, tried to run a police blockade......and ended with him reaching for a gun to murder an Oregon State Patrolman.
> 
> Claiming he was 'unarmed' because he couldn't get the gun out of his pocket fast enough to murder the Officer is laughable.
Click to expand...

Finicum owned a Colt 45 not a planted 9mm.


----------



## Skylar

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude....you denied that Finnicum was armed. That's retarded. They found a pistol in the very pocket he was reaching for. You refuse to watch the video the FBI posted of the entire operation. That's fucking retarded.
> 
> And don't get me started about your 'abandoned under the law' idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> here, let me state a third, fourth and fifth time, he had no gun in his hands.  unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was reaching for a gun. Armed.
> 
> Remember, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Anyone can watch the video and demonstrate for themselves that you're clueless.
> 
> This is a worst case scenario for you militia fucks. As the video offers demonstrable evidence that you're delusional, paranoid, irrational fools. And can't be trusted. As if the militia backpedalling once the FBI announced they had a video wasn't demonstration enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it demonstrates that you agree with murdering an unarmed rancher. Again he was not militia and every news outlet that calls Lavoy anything but a rancher proves themselves to be nothing more than liars and shills not worth listening to or watching. If you can't tell the truth it is possible you do not know what it is. This thing has been coming about for years. If you want to support the UN and their gestapo tactics you have that right but do not expect everyone else to go along with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They found a 9mm pistol in the pocket that Finicum was reaching for. One that resisted arrest, refused to surrender to police, lead them on a high speech chase, tried to run a police blockade......and ended with him reaching for a gun to murder an Oregon State Patrolman.
> 
> Claiming he was 'unarmed' because he couldn't get the gun out of his pocket fast enough to murder the Officer is laughable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finicum owned a Colt 45 not a planted 9mm.
Click to expand...


So it is a conspiracy!

Laughing......how did i know that was coming?


----------



## RodISHI

Skylar said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> here, let me state a third, fourth and fifth time, he had no gun in his hands.  unarmed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He was reaching for a gun. Armed.
> 
> Remember, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Anyone can watch the video and demonstrate for themselves that you're clueless.
> 
> This is a worst case scenario for you militia fucks. As the video offers demonstrable evidence that you're delusional, paranoid, irrational fools. And can't be trusted. As if the militia backpedalling once the FBI announced they had a video wasn't demonstration enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it demonstrates that you agree with murdering an unarmed rancher. Again he was not militia and every news outlet that calls Lavoy anything but a rancher proves themselves to be nothing more than liars and shills not worth listening to or watching. If you can't tell the truth it is possible you do not know what it is. This thing has been coming about for years. If you want to support the UN and their gestapo tactics you have that right but do not expect everyone else to go along with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They found a 9mm pistol in the pocket that Finicum was reaching for. One that resisted arrest, refused to surrender to police, lead them on a high speech chase, tried to run a police blockade......and ended with him reaching for a gun to murder an Oregon State Patrolman.
> 
> Claiming he was 'unarmed' because he couldn't get the gun out of his pocket fast enough to murder the Officer is laughable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finicum owned a Colt 45 not a planted 9mm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it is a conspiracy!
> 
> Laughing......how did i know that was coming?
Click to expand...

Your words. From what I see I would just call it premeditated murder.


----------



## Skylar

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was reaching for a gun. Armed.
> 
> Remember, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Anyone can watch the video and demonstrate for themselves that you're clueless.
> 
> This is a worst case scenario for you militia fucks. As the video offers demonstrable evidence that you're delusional, paranoid, irrational fools. And can't be trusted. As if the militia backpedalling once the FBI announced they had a video wasn't demonstration enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it demonstrates that you agree with murdering an unarmed rancher. Again he was not militia and every news outlet that calls Lavoy anything but a rancher proves themselves to be nothing more than liars and shills not worth listening to or watching. If you can't tell the truth it is possible you do not know what it is. This thing has been coming about for years. If you want to support the UN and their gestapo tactics you have that right but do not expect everyone else to go along with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They found a 9mm pistol in the pocket that Finicum was reaching for. One that resisted arrest, refused to surrender to police, lead them on a high speech chase, tried to run a police blockade......and ended with him reaching for a gun to murder an Oregon State Patrolman.
> 
> Claiming he was 'unarmed' because he couldn't get the gun out of his pocket fast enough to murder the Officer is laughable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finicum owned a Colt 45 not a planted 9mm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it is a conspiracy!
> 
> Laughing......how did i know that was coming?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your words. From what I see I would just call it premeditated murder.
Click to expand...


Really? Then how do explain Ammon Bundy, who surrendered peacefully and didn't have a scratch on him?

It was only the guy who resisted arrest, refused to surrender to a lawful warrant, lead the police on a high speed chase, ran a police blockade and then tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Patrolman that got shot.

Imagine the odds.


----------



## Skylar

And were you the one babbling about the indictment issued before Fuckhead Finnicum tried to pull a gun and kill a cop NOT including Finnicum?


----------



## RodISHI

Skylar said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it demonstrates that you agree with murdering an unarmed rancher. Again he was not militia and every news outlet that calls Lavoy anything but a rancher proves themselves to be nothing more than liars and shills not worth listening to or watching. If you can't tell the truth it is possible you do not know what it is. This thing has been coming about for years. If you want to support the UN and their gestapo tactics you have that right but do not expect everyone else to go along with you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They found a 9mm pistol in the pocket that Finicum was reaching for. One that resisted arrest, refused to surrender to police, lead them on a high speech chase, tried to run a police blockade......and ended with him reaching for a gun to murder an Oregon State Patrolman.
> 
> Claiming he was 'unarmed' because he couldn't get the gun out of his pocket fast enough to murder the Officer is laughable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finicum owned a Colt 45 not a planted 9mm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it is a conspiracy!
> 
> Laughing......how did i know that was coming?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your words. From what I see I would just call it premeditated murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Then how do explain Ammon Bundy, who surrendered peacefully and didn't have a scratch on him?
> 
> It was only the guy who resisted arrest, refused to surrender to a lawful warrant, lead the police on a high speed chase, ran a police blockade and then tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Patrolman that got shot.
> 
> Imagine the odds.
Click to expand...

You must have done well in creative writing.


----------



## Skylar

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> They found a 9mm pistol in the pocket that Finicum was reaching for. One that resisted arrest, refused to surrender to police, lead them on a high speech chase, tried to run a police blockade......and ended with him reaching for a gun to murder an Oregon State Patrolman.
> 
> Claiming he was 'unarmed' because he couldn't get the gun out of his pocket fast enough to murder the Officer is laughable.
> 
> 
> 
> Finicum owned a Colt 45 not a planted 9mm.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it is a conspiracy!
> 
> Laughing......how did i know that was coming?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your words. From what I see I would just call it premeditated murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Then how do explain Ammon Bundy, who surrendered peacefully and didn't have a scratch on him?
> 
> It was only the guy who resisted arrest, refused to surrender to a lawful warrant, lead the police on a high speed chase, ran a police blockade and then tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Patrolman that got shot.
> 
> Imagine the odds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have done well in creative writing.
Click to expand...


Nah, I just watched the video.


----------



## RodISHI

Skylar said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Finicum owned a Colt 45 not a planted 9mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it is a conspiracy!
> 
> Laughing......how did i know that was coming?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your words. From what I see I would just call it premeditated murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Then how do explain Ammon Bundy, who surrendered peacefully and didn't have a scratch on him?
> 
> It was only the guy who resisted arrest, refused to surrender to a lawful warrant, lead the police on a high speed chase, ran a police blockade and then tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Patrolman that got shot.
> 
> Imagine the odds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have done well in creative writing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, I just watched the video.
Click to expand...

Awe then your sight and mind are blocked from actually seeing. Besides have you even counted how many frames are missing in that thing?


----------



## Skylar

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it is a conspiracy!
> 
> Laughing......how did i know that was coming?
> 
> 
> 
> Your words. From what I see I would just call it premeditated murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Then how do explain Ammon Bundy, who surrendered peacefully and didn't have a scratch on him?
> 
> It was only the guy who resisted arrest, refused to surrender to a lawful warrant, lead the police on a high speed chase, ran a police blockade and then tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Patrolman that got shot.
> 
> Imagine the odds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have done well in creative writing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, I just watched the video.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Awe then your sight and mind are blocked from actually seeing. Besides have you even counted how many frames are missing in that thing?
Click to expand...


Oh, I saw. As can anyone.. Did you notice how the militia's story suddenly changed the moment the FBI annnounced they had a video?

How suddenly the first account by the militia was a 'misunderstanding'. And how Fuckhead Finnicum was actually going at the police? *Why is it that the militia's story changed so suddenly?* Could it be that the video contradicts their made up horseshit?

As for 'missing frames'......now you've got *another* batshit conspiracy theory? Its turtles all the way down, isn't it?


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Tel me again why the only people whose opinions matter are the residents of Burns...who are government employees and officials, and are located abou thirrty miles from the refuge?
> 
> Statist tool.


Silly little bitch, you posted the link to the rancher, Spencer, and he stated that he had a very good relationship with the BLM. And said that the FBI were handling the roadblocks in a professional manner. Not just the residents of Burns that like the FBI a whole lot more than the brain dead militias.


----------



## Old Rocks

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it is a conspiracy!
> 
> Laughing......how did i know that was coming?
> 
> 
> 
> Your words. From what I see I would just call it premeditated murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? Then how do explain Ammon Bundy, who surrendered peacefully and didn't have a scratch on him?
> 
> It was only the guy who resisted arrest, refused to surrender to a lawful warrant, lead the police on a high speed chase, ran a police blockade and then tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Patrolman that got shot.
> 
> Imagine the odds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have done well in creative writing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, I just watched the video.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Awe then your sight and mind are blocked from actually seeing. Besides have you even counted how many frames are missing in that thing?
Click to expand...

Just keep right on posting. Dumbass shits like you reveal just how braindead the you assholes are. Finicum is not going to be remembered as a martyr, He will be remembered as the fool among the fruitloops that choose to get himself shot. Good Riddance.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your words. From what I see I would just call it premeditated murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Then how do explain Ammon Bundy, who surrendered peacefully and didn't have a scratch on him?
> 
> It was only the guy who resisted arrest, refused to surrender to a lawful warrant, lead the police on a high speed chase, ran a police blockade and then tried to pull a gun and murder an Oregon State Patrolman that got shot.
> 
> Imagine the odds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have done well in creative writing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, I just watched the video.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Awe then your sight and mind are blocked from actually seeing. Besides have you even counted how many frames are missing in that thing?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just keep right on posting. Dumbass shits like you reveal just how braindead the you assholes are. Finicum is not going to be remembered as a martyr, He will be remembered as the fool among the fruitloops that choose to get himself shot. Good Riddance.
Click to expand...

Share with us your mental health diagnosis...and us your disability severe enough for a full ride ssi scholarship?


----------



## koshergrl

House Votes To Sell Apache Land To Foreign Corporation, The Tribe Is Furious


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo...we don't have a quotation of him actually saying t
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> When he said Finicum was unarmed.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see him say that. Quote and link, please.
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> In the real world...
> 
> The BLM is being advised, nicely for the time being, that their services are neither wanted, warranted...nor legal, and they need to get the fuck off land that belongs to others.
> 
> Lane County commmissioners agree to help fund lawsuit against BLM Western Oregon management plan | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's in the quote you posted even.
> 
> _"was there a gun in his hand? *If not, he was unarmed*." ~ an idiot_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You fucking idiot. That's a definition of the term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the deranged conservative lesson. Now for the in English...
> 
> armed
> 
> _furnished with weapons_​
> See that? One need not be holding a gun in their hand to be armed. Being furnished with one is sufficient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I'm still waiting for proof, and you haven't provided it
Click to expand...

Sufficient proof that you're a fucking retard has been amply provided.

Most of it by you.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I answered. Now you're idiocally claiming he was unarmed. Since the definition of armed is to be furnished with a firearm, which isn't limited to hold it in one's hand, you saying he was unarmed is the same as you saying he didn't have a gun on him.
> 
> Sadly, you're simply too fucking retarded to comprehend the implications of your own deluded commentary.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did he say that?????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> was there a gun in his hand? If not, he was unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> New definition...if a gun is not in your hand, you are "unarmed"?   cool
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fucking retards have their own definition for words.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, we're allowed as you are fk
Click to expand...

The definitions of my words come from the dictionary, as linked. Yours? From your defective brain.


----------



## Faun

RodISHI said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude....you denied that Finnicum was armed. That's retarded. They found a pistol in the very pocket he was reaching for. You refuse to watch the video the FBI posted of the entire operation. That's fucking retarded.
> 
> And don't get me started about your 'abandoned under the law' idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> here, let me state a third, fourth and fifth time, he had no gun in his hands.  unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He was reaching for a gun. Armed.
> 
> Remember, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Anyone can watch the video and demonstrate for themselves that you're clueless.
> 
> This is a worst case scenario for you militia fucks. As the video offers demonstrable evidence that you're delusional, paranoid, irrational fools. And can't be trusted. As if the militia backpedalling once the FBI announced they had a video wasn't demonstration enough.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually it demonstrates that you agree with murdering an unarmed rancher. Again he was not militia and every news outlet that calls Lavoy anything but a rancher proves themselves to be nothing more than liars and shills not worth listening to or watching. If you can't tell the truth it is possible you do not know what it is. This thing has been coming about for years. If you want to support the UN and their gestapo tactics you have that right but do not expect everyone else to go along with you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They found a 9mm pistol in the pocket that Finicum was reaching for. One that resisted arrest, refused to surrender to police, lead them on a high speech chase, tried to run a police blockade......and ended with him reaching for a gun to murder an Oregon State Patrolman.
> 
> Claiming he was 'unarmed' because he couldn't get the gun out of his pocket fast enough to murder the Officer is laughable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Finicum owned a Colt 45 not a planted 9mm.
Click to expand...

Finicum possessed more than one firearm.


----------



## jillian

koshergrl said:


> Dr Grump said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You gonna clean up the town Wyatt?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When the feds leave, it will clean itself.
Click to expand...


That isn't how it works


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Charges brought against four protesters still occupying Oregon wildlife refuge *


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> House Votes To Sell Apache Land To Foreign Corporation, The Tribe Is Furious


And what else do you expect from a Republican Congress. And that is who would buy the BLM and Forest Service were it put up for sale. That is the kind of thing that you and those like you are working for, Kosher.


----------



## teddyearp

Skylar said:


> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.



Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.

I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.


----------



## jon_berzerk

teddyearp said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
Click to expand...



the way in which they set up the roadblock borders on criminal  if not criminal under state and fed statutes 

where could they have gone with snow three feet deep in each ditch 

a simple road strip across the road would have done the trick 

then the cops set up a crossfire upon themselves 

no wonder the feds are trying to cover it up


----------



## koshergrl

jon_berzerk said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the way in which they set up the roadblock borders on criminal  if not criminal under state and fed statutes
> 
> where could they have gone with snow three feet deep in each ditch
> 
> a simple road strip across the road would have done the trick
> 
> then the cops set up a crossfire upon themselves
> 
> no wonder the feds are trying to cover it up
Click to expand...

The video they released was tampered with as well. That blurry spot...fake.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo...we don't have a quotation of him actually saying t
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see him say that. Quote and link, please.
> 
> Meanwhile...
> 
> In the real world...
> 
> The BLM is being advised, nicely for the time being, that their services are neither wanted, warranted...nor legal, and they need to get the fuck off land that belongs to others.
> 
> Lane County commmissioners agree to help fund lawsuit against BLM Western Oregon management plan | Local | Eugene, Oregon
> 
> 
> 
> It's in the quote you posted even.
> 
> _"was there a gun in his hand? *If not, he was unarmed*." ~ an idiot_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You fucking idiot. That's a definition of the term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the deranged conservative lesson. Now for the in English...
> 
> armed
> 
> _furnished with weapons_​
> See that? One need not be holding a gun in their hand to be armed. Being furnished with one is sufficient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I'm still waiting for proof, and you haven't provided it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sufficient proof that you're a fucking retard has been amply provided.
> 
> Most of it by you.
Click to expand...


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the way in which they set up the roadblock borders on criminal  if not criminal under state and fed statutes
> 
> where could they have gone with snow three feet deep in each ditch
> 
> a simple road strip across the road would have done the trick
> 
> then the cops set up a crossfire upon themselves
> 
> no wonder the feds are trying to cover it up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video they released was tampered with as well. That blurry spot...fake.
Click to expand...



edited and tapered with 

the cop cams and car cams need to be released 

 any radio talk 

and the witnesses cell phone recording


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo...we don't have a quotation of him actually saying t
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's in the quote you posted even.
> 
> _"was there a gun in his hand? *If not, he was unarmed*." ~ an idiot_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You fucking idiot. That's a definition of the term.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the deranged conservative lesson. Now for the in English...
> 
> armed
> 
> _furnished with weapons_​
> See that? One need not be holding a gun in their hand to be armed. Being furnished with one is sufficient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I'm still waiting for proof, and you haven't provided it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sufficient proof that you're a fucking retard has been amply provided.
> 
> Most of it by you.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



it is clear that the shooter(s) did not use *Reasonable restraint* in the shooting


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
Click to expand...

Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping, he must have been going pretty damn fast.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the way in which they set up the roadblock borders on criminal  if not criminal under state and fed statutes
> 
> where could they have gone with snow three feet deep in each ditch
> 
> a simple road strip across the road would have done the trick
> 
> then the cops set up a crossfire upon themselves
> 
> no wonder the feds are trying to cover it up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video they released was tampered with as well. That blurry spot...fake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> edited and tapered with
> 
> the cop cams and car cams need to be released
> 
> any radio talk
> 
> and the witnesses cell phone recording
Click to expand...

Oh? In what way was that video edited and tampered with?


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the way in which they set up the roadblock borders on criminal  if not criminal under state and fed statutes
> 
> where could they have gone with snow three feet deep in each ditch
> 
> a simple road strip across the road would have done the trick
> 
> then the cops set up a crossfire upon themselves
> 
> no wonder the feds are trying to cover it up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video they released was tampered with as well. That blurry spot...fake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> edited and tapered with
> 
> the cop cams and car cams need to be released
> 
> any radio talk
> 
> and the witnesses cell phone recording
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh? In what way was that video edited and tampered with?
Click to expand...


release the information


----------



## koshergrl

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sooooo...we don't have a quotation of him actually saying t
> You fucking idiot. That's a definition of the term.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the deranged conservative lesson. Now for the in English...
> 
> armed
> 
> _furnished with weapons_​
> See that? One need not be holding a gun in their hand to be armed. Being furnished with one is sufficient.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I'm still waiting for proof, and you haven't provided it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sufficient proof that you're a fucking retard has been amply provided.
> 
> Most of it by you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> it is clear that the shooter(s) did not use *Reasonable restraint* in the shooting
Click to expand...

Shooters.


jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the way in which they set up the roadblock borders on criminal  if not criminal under state and fed statutes
> 
> where could they have gone with snow three feet deep in each ditch
> 
> a simple road strip across the road would have done the trick
> 
> then the cops set up a crossfire upon themselves
> 
> no wonder the feds are trying to cover it up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video they released was tampered with as well. That blurry spot...fake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> edited and tapered with
> 
> the cop cams and car cams need to be released
> 
> any radio talk
> 
> and the witnesses cell phone recording
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh? In what way was that video edited and tampered with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> release the information
Click to expand...


It wont be released. Our govt no longer operates under the rule of law, and never will again until we force them.


----------



## koshergrl

Constitutional sheriffs.


----------



## Wry Catcher

koshergrl said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the deranged conservative lesson. Now for the in English...
> 
> armed
> 
> _furnished with weapons_​
> See that? One need not be holding a gun in their hand to be armed. Being furnished with one is sufficient.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I'm still waiting for proof, and you haven't provided it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sufficient proof that you're a fucking retard has been amply provided.
> 
> Most of it by you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> it is clear that the shooter(s) did not use *Reasonable restraint* in the shooting
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shooters.
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> the way in which they set up the roadblock borders on criminal  if not criminal under state and fed statutes
> 
> where could they have gone with snow three feet deep in each ditch
> 
> a simple road strip across the road would have done the trick
> 
> then the cops set up a crossfire upon themselves
> 
> no wonder the feds are trying to cover it up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video they released was tampered with as well. That blurry spot...fake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> edited and tapered with
> 
> the cop cams and car cams need to be released
> 
> any radio talk
> 
> and the witnesses cell phone recording
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh? In what way was that video edited and tampered with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> release the information
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It wont be released. Our govt no longer operates under the rule of law, and never will again until we force them.
Click to expand...


Go for it Annie Oakley, and say hello to McVeigh and Koresh when you see them.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the way in which they set up the roadblock borders on criminal  if not criminal under state and fed statutes
> 
> where could they have gone with snow three feet deep in each ditch
> 
> a simple road strip across the road would have done the trick
> 
> then the cops set up a crossfire upon themselves
> 
> no wonder the feds are trying to cover it up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video they released was tampered with as well. That blurry spot...fake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> edited and tapered with
> 
> the cop cams and car cams need to be released
> 
> any radio talk
> 
> and the witnesses cell phone recording
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh? In what way was that video edited and tampered with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> release the information
Click to expand...

You said the video they released is edited and tampered with.

Are you now admitting you were bullshitting?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
Click to expand...

I thought he breached the road block?  Now you're saying he braked.  hmmmmmmmm


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought he breached the road block?  Now you're saying he braked.  hmmmmmmmm
Click to expand...

When did I ever deny he hit his brakes? Can you post sober?


----------



## RodISHI

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> the way in which they set up the roadblock borders on criminal  if not criminal under state and fed statutes
> 
> where could they have gone with snow three feet deep in each ditch
> 
> a simple road strip across the road would have done the trick
> 
> then the cops set up a crossfire upon themselves
> 
> no wonder the feds are trying to cover it up
> 
> 
> 
> The video they released was tampered with as well. That blurry spot...fake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> edited and tapered with
> 
> the cop cams and car cams need to be released
> 
> any radio talk
> 
> and the witnesses cell phone recording
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh? In what way was that video edited and tampered with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> release the information
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said the video they released is edited and tampered with.
> 
> Are you now admitting you were bullshitting?
Click to expand...

Count the frames that is if you can count.


----------



## RodISHI

Oregon governor needs money to pay for her thugs brought in from California. Malheur Occupation Costs Oregon Taxpayers $500,000


----------



## koshergrl

RodISHI said:


> Oregon governor needs money to pay for her thugs brought in from California. Malheur Occupation Costs Oregon Taxpayers $500,000


Let the fbi and the governor whore pay for it.


----------



## Faun

RodISHI said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> The video they released was tampered with as well. That blurry spot...fake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edited and tapered with
> 
> the cop cams and car cams need to be released
> 
> any radio talk
> 
> and the witnesses cell phone recording
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh? In what way was that video edited and tampered with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> release the information
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said the video they released is edited and tampered with.
> 
> Are you now admitting you were bullshitting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count the frames that is if you can count.
Click to expand...

Count what frames? I watched a video which doesn't indicate individual frames. Where do you see frames?


----------



## RodISHI

Faun said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> edited and tapered with
> 
> the cop cams and car cams need to be released
> 
> any radio talk
> 
> and the witnesses cell phone recording
> 
> 
> 
> Oh? In what way was that video edited and tampered with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> release the information
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said the video they released is edited and tampered with.
> 
> Are you now admitting you were bullshitting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count the frames that is if you can count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count what frames? I watched a video which doesn't indicate individual frames. Where do you see frames?
Click to expand...

Maybe you need to educate yourself a little better. Not my job to do it for you.


----------



## Vandalshandle

teddyearp said:


> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
Click to expand...


They were actually going very slowly, because they were taking one of their children, a little girl named Polly, to the hospital, because she had contracted polio, and they did not want to frighten her with fast driving, since it made her asthma worse, and made it difficult for her to breathe. Unfortunately, when they were forced into a snowbank, Polly went through the window and froze to death in the snow while the FBI was busy planting guns on all the occupants. Before she died, she was heard to say, "Teacher says that every time a round is fired, an angel gets it's wings!".


----------



## Montrovant

RodISHI said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh? In what way was that video edited and tampered with?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> release the information
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said the video they released is edited and tampered with.
> 
> Are you now admitting you were bullshitting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count the frames that is if you can count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count what frames? I watched a video which doesn't indicate individual frames. Where do you see frames?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to educate yourself a little better. Not my job to do it for you.
Click to expand...


I notice you haven't yet said just how the video was tampered with.....your talk of counting frames would seem to indicate that something was either edited in or removed, but what that is remains undisclosed.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylar said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've watched the video. Watched as the police tried to arrest Lavoy on a lawful probable cause warrant. And Lavoy refusing to surrender, eventually tearing away in his vehicle and racing toward the police blockade. Watched as Lavoy swerved to the left at the last minute, trying to run the blockade but getting caught in the snow. Watched as he ran from his car, got about 15 feet before being cornered by State Troopers. Watched as he reached for his pistol and tried to pull a gun to murder an Oregon State Trooper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you got that down real well. Almost like a chant.  Or a robot.  You and Carla and bodeaca(?) and the others.  Chanting what you've been told like it's a mantra.  Like a primitive tribe praying to it's tree god or something.  High speed chase.  Reaching for a gun.  Murder an Oregon State Trooper.  Rinse, repeat.
> 
> I only asked you of your opinion of how fast he was going.  I was hoping you were capable of independent analysis and thought.  I see now that you are not.  Otherwise you might have just answered my question instead of repeating the mantra your .gov have fed you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I thought he breached the road block?  Now you're saying he braked.  hmmmmmmmm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I ever deny he hit his brakes? Can you post sober?
Click to expand...

dude you all on the libturd end of this thing all post the same shit. So did you necessarily say he ran a road block, I'm not going to go back and rehash the entire thread.  The fact that he braked points out that he didn't run the road block.  If not you, you should tell your peers on here he didn't and then tell them to stop posting he did.


----------



## Faun

RodISHI said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh? In what way was that video edited and tampered with?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> release the information
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said the video they released is edited and tampered with.
> 
> Are you now admitting you were bullshitting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count the frames that is if you can count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count what frames? I watched a video which doesn't indicate individual frames. Where do you see frames?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to educate yourself a little better. Not my job to do it for you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for confirming you're full of shit.


----------



## RodISHI

Faun said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> release the information
> 
> 
> 
> You said the video they released is edited and tampered with.
> 
> Are you now admitting you were bullshitting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count the frames that is if you can count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count what frames? I watched a video which doesn't indicate individual frames. Where do you see frames?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to educate yourself a little better. Not my job to do it for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for confirming you're full of shit.
Click to expand...

Your welcome thank you for showing your unwillingness to take the time to learn for yourself.


----------



## koshergrl

Montrovant said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> release the information
> 
> 
> 
> You said the video they released is edited and tampered with.
> 
> Are you now admitting you were bullshitting?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count the frames that is if you can count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count what frames? I watched a video which doesn't indicate individual frames. Where do you see frames?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to educate yourself a little better. Not my job to do it for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I notice you haven't yet said just how the video was tampered with.....your talk of counting frames would seem to indicate that something was either edited in or removed, but what that is remains undisclosed.
Click to expand...

The blurred part of the video is an obvious and amateur manipulation.


----------



## koshergrl

High-ranking BLM official convicted in Montana of fraud and theft


----------



## jc456

hey yo class, here is an update:

FBI video of Robert ‘LaVoy’ Finicum shooting in Oregon fails to calm uproar

"Even with the video, however, Robert W. Taylor, a professor at the University of Texas at Dallas whose areas of expertise include police use of force, said, “It’s just too early to tell what’s going on here.”

“Before you can say that this [shooting] is justifiable, you’re going to have to work at all the evidence, and right now this video doesn’t show enough to determine whether or not this was a justifiable shooting,” said Mr. Taylor, adding, “Obviously they’re going to have to come up with more than just this thing.”"


----------



## RodISHI

koshergrl said:


> Montrovant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said the video they released is edited and tampered with.
> 
> Are you now admitting you were bullshitting?
> 
> 
> 
> Count the frames that is if you can count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count what frames? I watched a video which doesn't indicate individual frames. Where do you see frames?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to educate yourself a little better. Not my job to do it for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I notice you haven't yet said just how the video was tampered with.....your talk of counting frames would seem to indicate that something was either edited in or removed, but what that is remains undisclosed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The blurred part of the video is an obvious and amateur manipulation.
Click to expand...

Do mercenary groups hire professional editors?


----------



## jc456

BTW, I did see a bit different video today, but it makes it more clear that he never reached in his jacket, ever. oopsssssss..........oh wait for the other videos.  I can't wait.


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.



Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.

That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:



> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.








Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide

So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*Government inaction gave Bundy militants a platform to spread their anti-government delusions*
“The federal government’s light-handed response both in Oregon and Nevada has actually fueled the spread of patriot movement ideology, particularly in the rural West.”


----------



## teddyearp

Here, check this out.  I slowed it to 15% and zoomed only as much as to be able to see both parties at the same time:


The first shot is fired by the officer near the bottom of the screen.  I believe it was around 1:20 or so.  It is just coming out of the blurry stage.  You can see the puff from the muzzle. You can see the rifle recoil several more times as LaVoy tries to keep his hands up until he does finally reach down to his jacket while he stomps in a little circle, bewildered, shot and about to get the kill shot from the officer at the top of the screen from a handgun.


----------



## Faun

RodISHI said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said the video they released is edited and tampered with.
> 
> Are you now admitting you were bullshitting?
> 
> 
> 
> Count the frames that is if you can count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Count what frames? I watched a video which doesn't indicate individual frames. Where do you see frames?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe you need to educate yourself a little better. Not my job to do it for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for confirming you're full of shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your welcome thank you for showing your unwillingness to take the time to learn for yourself.
Click to expand...

I learned you are full of shit. That about covers it.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> hey yo class, here is an update:
> 
> FBI video of Robert ‘LaVoy’ Finicum shooting in Oregon fails to calm uproar
> 
> "Even with the video, however, Robert W. Taylor, a professor at the University of Texas at Dallas whose areas of expertise include police use of force, said, “It’s just too early to tell what’s going on here.”
> 
> “Before you can say that this [shooting] is justifiable, you’re going to have to work at all the evidence, and right now this video doesn’t show enough to determine whether or not this was a justifiable shooting,” said Mr. Taylor, adding, “Obviously they’re going to have to come up with more than just this thing.”"


Looks justified to me...


... I suppose y'all think that video was edited too?


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Here, check this out.  I slowed it to 15% and zoomed only as much as to be able to see both parties at the same time:
> 
> 
> The first shot is fired by the officer near the bottom of the screen.  I believe it was around 1:20 or so.  It is just coming out of the blurry stage.  You can see the puff from the muzzle. You can see the rifle recoil several more times as LaVoy tries to keep his hands up until he does finally reach down to his jacket while he stomps in a little circle, bewildered, shot and about to get the kill shot from the officer at the top of the screen from a handgun.


That doesn't look that way to me. To me, the first indication I see a shot was fired is at the 1:27 mark.


----------



## jc456

teddyearp said:


> Here, check this out.  I slowed it to 15% and zoomed only as much as to be able to see both parties at the same time:
> 
> 
> The first shot is fired by the officer near the bottom of the screen.  I believe it was around 1:20 or so.  It is just coming out of the blurry stage.  You can see the puff from the muzzle. You can see the rifle recoil several more times as LaVoy tries to keep his hands up until he does finally reach down to his jacket while he stomps in a little circle, bewildered, shot and about to get the kill shot from the officer at the top of the screen from a handgun.


Nope, can't make it out.  Went to youtube and zoomed there to 170 percent and still couldn't see any puff of smoke.  Although, it does look like him turning initially was due to perhaps getting hit and he looked like he was disoriented after.

BTW, I never see him reach for his jacket before he falls. And his arms were indeed up at the kill shot.


----------



## koshergrl

Like it matters what faun believes. The statist losers who have NOTHING except whatis given to them by others are just mentally ill entitlement weirdoes. I guarantee that their neighbors despise and fear them...and as felons and mentaly incapacitated persons, they're nonentities anyway.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
Click to expand...

The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency. 

Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.

Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Like it matters what faun believes. The statist losers who have NOTHING except whatis given to them by others are just mentally ill entitlement weirdoes. I guarantee that their neighbors despise and fear them...and as felons and mentaly incapacitated persons, they're nonentities anyway.


Spits the moron who actually tried to pass off an Britainer in England as a life-long resident of Harney county.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
Click to expand...

So, you think he could see them in enough time to abide by this stopping distance?  Oh, and the dude from the FBI or Troopers runs right into the path, you can't be that fking blind are you?




see no one in his path???????????

And then.....




Where'd the fk he come from?  Oh yeah ran in the direction of the truck.  What a fking stupid fk.

so now tell me did he drive at the cop or did the cop go after his truck?  fking loser libturds.


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like it matters what faun believes. The statist losers who have NOTHING except whatis given to them by others are just mentally ill entitlement weirdoes. I guarantee that their neighbors despise and fear them...and as felons and mentaly incapacitated persons, they're nonentities anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Spits the moron who actually tried to pass off an Britainer in England as a life-long resident of Harney county.
Click to expand...

No, I didn't lol. I said the video was shared by a lifelong harney county resident on facebook...but aAs I said...who cares what incompetents think. They can't reason, their brains don't function properly. As faun advertises every time he posts.


----------



## koshergrl

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think he could see them in enough time to abide by this stopping distance?  Oh, and the dude from the FBI or Troopers runs right into the path, you can't be that fking blind are you?
> View attachment 62457
> 
> see no one in his path???????????
> 
> And then.....
> View attachment 62458
> 
> Where'd the fk he come from?  Oh yeah ran in the direction of the truck.  What a fking stupid fk.
> 
> so now tell me did he drive at the cop or did the cop go after his truck?  fking loser libturds.
Click to expand...

Not blind....delusional and dishonest.


----------



## Camp

It is kind of nice that JC456 and Koshergirl offer themselves up as samples of the assholes mentioned in the thread title. While they might not be hanging out with them in person, they certainly are standing with them in spirit.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think he could see them in enough time to abide by this stopping distance?  Oh, and the dude from the FBI or Troopers runs right into the path, you can't be that fking blind are you?
> View attachment 62457
> 
> see no one in his path???????????
> 
> And then.....
> View attachment 62458
> 
> Where'd the fk he come from?  Oh yeah ran in the direction of the truck.  What a fking stupid fk.
> 
> so now tell me did he drive at the cop or did the cop go after his truck?  fking loser libturds.
Click to expand...

You can see it for yourself. He first applies his brakes some 200 feet before reaching the road block and he still didn't stop in time.


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
Click to expand...


My fail, hehehe, you're funny.  You originally said it takes about one car length per 10mph to stop.  When I call you on it you back peddle and side step.  Typical.

Judging by how fast he was going by the objects (trees, etc.) he was passing, he was doing about 40-45 mph average.  When he hit his brakes, he did not do so to fully stop, he was trying to decide what to do.


----------



## koshergrl

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My fail, hehehe, you're funny.  You originally said it takes about one car length per 10mph to stop.  When I call you on it you back peddle and side step.  Typical.
> 
> Judging by how fast he was going by the objects (trees, etc.) he was passing, he was doing about 40-45 mph average.  When he hit his brakes, he did not do so to fully stop, he was trying to decide what to do.
Click to expand...

He was trying to avoid getting that girl in the back shot. They took fire the first time they stopped. He knew their purpose was to kill him, there was never any doubt.


----------



## teddyearp

Ok, let me try to insert some logical reality into this discussion, if it is at all possible.

YOU are LaVoy Finnicum.  You get in an argument at the first stop and one guy jumps out of the truck.  You know the gig is up, so you think about trying to get to the Grant county sheriff somehow and speed away.  Upon approaching the road block you realize that's not going to happen.  But you are intent on 'murdering' cops before you die. So what do you do when you slow and plow into the snow?

Do you just jump out and walk away from any available cover with your hands held high as you can and think about pulling your gun at some time along the way?  NO!  You would get the gun in your hand first, jump out and use as much of the truck for cover as you can to fire as many rounds to attempt to 'murder' cops before they can get to you.


----------



## IsaacNewton

I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.


----------



## koshergrl

It doesn't matter. He did nothing wrong.


----------



## teddyearp

IsaacNewton said:


> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.



Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.


----------



## koshergrl

IsaacNewton said:


> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.


They did, and they were shot at.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think he could see them in enough time to abide by this stopping distance?  Oh, and the dude from the FBI or Troopers runs right into the path, you can't be that fking blind are you?
> View attachment 62457
> 
> see no one in his path???????????
> 
> And then.....
> View attachment 62458
> 
> Where'd the fk he come from?  Oh yeah ran in the direction of the truck.  What a fking stupid fk.
> 
> so now tell me did he drive at the cop or did the cop go after his truck?  fking loser libturds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can see it for yourself. He first applies his brakes some 200 feet before reaching the road block and he still didn't stop in time.
Click to expand...

Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> It is kind of nice that JC456 and Koshergirl offer themselves up as samples of the assholes mentioned in the thread title. While they might not be hanging out with them in person, they certainly are standing with them in spirit.


I'm an American and you're a fk off


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> hey yo class, here is an update:
> 
> FBI video of Robert ‘LaVoy’ Finicum shooting in Oregon fails to calm uproar
> 
> "Even with the video, however, Robert W. Taylor, a professor at the University of Texas at Dallas whose areas of expertise include police use of force, said, “It’s just too early to tell what’s going on here.”
> 
> “Before you can say that this [shooting] is justifiable, you’re going to have to work at all the evidence, and right now this video doesn’t show enough to determine whether or not this was a justifiable shooting,” said Mr. Taylor, adding, “Obviously they’re going to have to come up with more than just this thing.”"



from the link

David A. Klinger, University of Missouri at St. Louis professor of criminology and criminal justice, said that “on the ultimate question of, ‘Did they do the right thing in terms of shooting?’ — from that video, I can’t tell.”


----------



## jon_berzerk

from the link

From a tactical perspective, he said, the video raises any number of questions, starting with the placement of the officers who appear on either side of Finicum after he exits the truck, which he had plowed into a snowbank to avoid an FBI roadblock.
The officers appear to be in each other’s line of sight. In other words, if the trooper who creeps out of the woods toward Finicum had missed, he could have easily hit an FBI agent on the other side, instead.
“A, they’ve got themselves in a crossfire situation, and B, why in the world would you leave your cover position?” Mr. Klinger said. “So there’s a lot of stuff that doesn’t make sense to me in terms of why they did what they did in those immediate moments preceding the shooting.”


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think he could see them in enough time to abide by this stopping distance?  Oh, and the dude from the FBI or Troopers runs right into the path, you can't be that fking blind are you?
> View attachment 62457
> 
> see no one in his path???????????
> 
> And then.....
> View attachment 62458
> 
> Where'd the fk he come from?  Oh yeah ran in the direction of the truck.  What a fking stupid fk.
> 
> so now tell me did he drive at the cop or did the cop go after his truck?  fking loser libturds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can see it for yourself. He first applies his brakes some 200 feet before reaching the road block and he still didn't stop in time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!
Click to expand...



funny how the whole thing could have been avoided 

if they would have used road spikes


----------



## IsaacNewton

teddyearp said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
Click to expand...


There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.

By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people. 

It isn't. Ever.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like it matters what faun believes. The statist losers who have NOTHING except whatis given to them by others are just mentally ill entitlement weirdoes. I guarantee that their neighbors despise and fear them...and as felons and mentaly incapacitated persons, they're nonentities anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Spits the moron who actually tried to pass off an Britainer in England as a life-long resident of Harney county.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I didn't lol. I said the video was shared by a lifelong harney county resident on facebook...but aAs I said...who cares what incompetents think. They can't reason, their brains don't function properly. As faun advertises every time he posts.
Click to expand...

Who knows why you lie when your post is still there. Chalk this up to you being batshit crazy.

Here's what you posted with the video...

_A respected, lifelong Harney County resident, rancher, business owner and Christian.....a type of man that makes statist freaks piss themselves....posted this_​


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My fail, hehehe, you're funny.  You originally said it takes about one car length per 10mph to stop.  When I call you on it you back peddle and side step.  Typical.
> 
> Judging by how fast he was going by the objects (trees, etc.) he was passing, he was doing about 40-45 mph average.  When he hit his brakes, he did not do so to fully stop, he was trying to decide what to do.
Click to expand...

Too funny. You realize your original estimate was off by roughly 80%, yet you think that means he was going only maybe another 5 MPH. 

He was trying to flee from the law. The law describes it as a "high speed chase."

And I backpedaled on nothing. I repeated what I said initially -- it takes about 1 car length for every 10 MPH to stop.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Ok, let me try to insert some logical reality into this discussion, if it is at all possible.
> 
> YOU are LaVoy Finnicum.  You get in an argument at the first stop and one guy jumps out of the truck.  You know the gig is up, so you think about trying to get to the Grant county sheriff somehow and speed away.  Upon approaching the road block you realize that's not going to happen.  But you are intent on 'murdering' cops before you die. So what do you do when you slow and plow into the snow?
> 
> Do you just jump out and walk away from any available cover with your hands held high as you can and think about pulling your gun at some time along the way?  NO!  You would get the gun in your hand first, jump out and use as much of the truck for cover as you can to fire as many rounds to attempt to 'murder' cops before they can get to you.


That's one theory. Not one that I agree with, but it is one.

Personally, I don't think it was Finicum's intent to shoot anyone. I believe he wanted police to shoot him because as he said, he would rather die than go to prison. I also believe he jumped out of his vehicle with his hands up and trotted away from the vehicle to draw the police away from it so no one inside would get hurt when police killed him. And lastly, I believe when he was clear from the vehicle, he lowered his hand in a motion as if he were going for a gun while shouting at the police, _"just shoot me."_

They did. That's what he wanted.

His death is nothing more than suicide by cop.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> It doesn't matter. He did nothing wrong.


He reached for a weapon.

That's deadly when cops are pointing their guns at you.

Anybody with a brain knows this; which is why you don't.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Faster than he was going at the very beginning of the video. And fast enough that he couldn't stop in time without crashing into either the roadblock or the snow despite hitting his brakes approximately 10 car lengths prior to reaching the road block. Considering a rule of thumb *where one car length for every 10 MPH is needed for stopping*, he must have been going pretty damn fast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The average car driving at 20 mph will travel 20 feet before coming to a complete stop, however a car travelling at 40 mph will take 80 ft to come to a stop – that’s why it’s *SO* important not to exceed the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think he could see them in enough time to abide by this stopping distance?  Oh, and the dude from the FBI or Troopers runs right into the path, you can't be that fking blind are you?
> View attachment 62457
> 
> see no one in his path???????????
> 
> And then.....
> View attachment 62458
> 
> Where'd the fk he come from?  Oh yeah ran in the direction of the truck.  What a fking stupid fk.
> 
> so now tell me did he drive at the cop or did the cop go after his truck?  fking loser libturds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can see it for yourself. He first applies his brakes some 200 feet before reaching the road block and he still didn't stop in time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!
Click to expand...

As usual, you post like you're drunk.

Not sure what difference you think it makes if they were marked or not, but regardless, he was being chased by policed after being stopped by police and then fleeing from police. The middle car in the roadblock he faced had flashing red/blue lights. And he jumped out immediately from his vehicle with his hands up.

I'm more than fairly certain he recognized it was a police roadblock.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, just wow, ace.  Your ignorance is showing, but since you are chanting the same mantra that the rest of the robots are it doesn't surprise me.
> 
> That rule of thumb is for the distance to keep between you and the car in front of you, ace.  Nothing at all to do with stopping.  But since you say it was 10 car lengths, let's see what the facts are:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Stopping distances - ingenie® Young Driver's Guide
> 
> So according to your estimate of ten car lengths, he was going what I estimated from watching the video: around 40 MPH TOPS.  And I actually think he may have tried to plow his way around the roadblock and failed.
> 
> 
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So, you think he could see them in enough time to abide by this stopping distance?  Oh, and the dude from the FBI or Troopers runs right into the path, you can't be that fking blind are you?
> View attachment 62457
> 
> see no one in his path???????????
> 
> And then.....
> View attachment 62458
> 
> Where'd the fk he come from?  Oh yeah ran in the direction of the truck.  What a fking stupid fk.
> 
> so now tell me did he drive at the cop or did the cop go after his truck?  fking loser libturds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can see it for yourself. He first applies his brakes some 200 feet before reaching the road block and he still didn't stop in time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> funny how the whole thing could have been avoided
> 
> if they would have used road spikes
Click to expand...

They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.


----------



## koshergrl

IsaacNewton said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
Click to expand...

Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rule of thumb of maintaining a car length per every ten feet is because that is the minimum distance required to stop in an emergency.
> 
> Your next fail is basing the distance on 118ft. When I estimated ten car lengths, that was based on Finicum's truck, not an "average car length" as referenced in the chart you posted. The distance he traveled was closer to 200ft.
> 
> Then add in how much more distance he would have needed to stop had the snow bank not stopped him abruptly.
> 
> 
> 
> So, you think he could see them in enough time to abide by this stopping distance?  Oh, and the dude from the FBI or Troopers runs right into the path, you can't be that fking blind are you?
> View attachment 62457
> 
> see no one in his path???????????
> 
> And then.....
> View attachment 62458
> 
> Where'd the fk he come from?  Oh yeah ran in the direction of the truck.  What a fking stupid fk.
> 
> so now tell me did he drive at the cop or did the cop go after his truck?  fking loser libturds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can see it for yourself. He first applies his brakes some 200 feet before reaching the road block and he still didn't stop in time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> funny how the whole thing could have been avoided
> 
> if they would have used road spikes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.
Click to expand...


bulllshit


----------



## jc456

IsaacNewton said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
Click to expand...

Hahahaha, l agree, murder


----------



## jc456

koshergrl said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
Click to expand...

Dude quit letting them get under your skin


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hahahaha, l agree, murder
Click to expand...


yup


----------



## koshergrl

jc456 said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude quit letting them get under your skin
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with pointing out sheep, and letting them know that their cowardice and stupidity leads to.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
Click to expand...

I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.
Click to expand...

Lol. Now we all know thats not true. Three thousand attended finicums funeral, and there  are gatherings all over the nation protesting his death and demanding that federal pukes obey the law, stop fucking with people, and go back to dc where they belong. Nobody has started picking off blm and forest service officials, but they will. Fbi is still harassing ppl in harney county.


----------



## koshergrl

Land Management official sentenced in workplace fraud case

The Green Land-Grabbers: It's Not Just the Feds Who Are After Your Land


----------



## koshergrl

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...2viUue1_-8tIn1dCg&sig2=a2muVcmgPa5WAKc0mAdtbw


----------



## Old Rocks

They do, and they will justly hang. Either after the law gets them, or before, when the sane citizens take care of them. And that kind of talk is exactly why the rest of us want these bastards neutralized. I do hope that the FBI was taking pictures of those that attended these gathering. If there were weapons displayed, id'ing the people with the weapons, and checking for criminal background, whether they are allowed to have weapons, and if not, putting out an APB on them. 

Time to put a end to this nonsense of assholes playing bad asses and threatening the rest of us. The fucking miscreants need to get jobs, quit living off the government they hate, and work for a living like the rest of us.


----------



## koshergrl

Yawn what a statist creep you are.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=22&rct=j&q=feds set fires then wont allow ranchers to save their cattle&ved=0ahUKEwj_q-zatuPKAhVKwGMKHdoTA0A4FBAWCB0wAQ&url=http://www.rangemagazine.com/features/winter-16/range-wi16-sr-fire.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF3U2n3sIQOn2viUue1_-8tIn1dCg&sig2=a2muVcmgPa5WAKc0mAdtbw


Then give the Forest Service the money and resources to thin and clear. At present, all their resources are going to fight fires. It is assholes like you that have created the situation. First you demand that they fight the fires, then you state that you hate them for fighting the fires. You are one paranoid little bitch. You really need to get help with your mental problems.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.
Click to expand...



bs there are plenty of alternatives


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol. Now we all know thats not true. Three thousand attended finicums funeral, and there  are gatherings all over the nation protesting his death and demanding that federal pukes obey the law, stop fucking with people, and go back to dc where they belong. Nobody has started picking off blm and forest service officials, but they will. Fbi is still harassing ppl in harney county.
Click to expand...

The group of locals on Monday in Burns were carrying signs stating that they wanted the FBI to stay, and the militia dingbats to leave. That was the locals. It was outsiders in the other group. People who were there only to cause trouble. And you know that is the truth, because right after you were calling the people of Burns and Harney County names.


----------



## jon_berzerk

impressive --LOL -not


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol. Now we all know thats not true. Three thousand attended finicums funeral, and there  are gatherings all over the nation protesting his death and demanding that federal pukes obey the law, stop fucking with people, and go back to dc where they belong. Nobody has started picking off blm and forest service officials, but they will. Fbi is still harassing ppl in harney county.
Click to expand...

Where does this figure of three thousand come from? I found a blog site that said "thousands" but news sources say less than a thousand. Only FOX News in Salt Lake claims "over a thousand". I found nothing about "gatherings all over the nation". None of the video's or photo's indicate thousands in attendance.


----------



## Old Rocks

jon_berzerk said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> bs there are plenty of alternatives
Click to expand...

Of course there were. We could just have had the National Guard in there with M-60's on the second day of the occupation and ended that nonsense right then and there. However, by letting it play out as it did, the nation was allowed to see how truly fruitloopy these assholes really are. And Cliven Bundy's ultimatum to the Sheriff of Harney County was the icing on the cake.
Bundy then went on to take the sovereign position over the servants of the people


Read more at Bundy Puts Harney County Sheriff on Notice: “We Will Retain Possession of the Harney County Resource Center” - Freedom Outpost

Total idiocy


----------



## jon_berzerk

The funeral is Friday, Feb. 5, in Kanab, Utah, Finicum's family said. More than 30 memorials, candlelight vigils and rallies in at least 17 states are planned for Feb. 5, Feb. 6 and Feb. 7.

LaVoy Finicum's death in Oregon occupation prompts memorials across country


----------



## jon_berzerk

Old Rocks said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> bs there are plenty of alternatives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there were. We could just have had the National Guard in there with M-60's on the second day of the occupation and ended that nonsense right then and there. However, by letting it play out as it did, the nation was allowed to see how truly fruitloopy these assholes really are. And Cliven Bundy's ultimatum to the Sheriff of Harney County was the icing on the cake.
> Bundy then went on to take the sovereign position over the servants of the people
> 
> 
> Read more at Bundy Puts Harney County Sheriff on Notice: “We Will Retain Possession of the Harney County Resource Center” - Freedom Outpost
> 
> Total idiocy
Click to expand...



nonsense


----------



## Old Rocks

jon_berzerk said:


> The funeral is Friday, Feb. 5, in Kanab, Utah, Finicum's family said. More than 30 memorials, candlelight vigils and rallies in at least 17 states are planned for Feb. 5, Feb. 6 and Feb. 7.
> 
> LaVoy Finicum's death in Oregon occupation prompts memorials across country


Like I said, excellent opportunity to take pictures, and do background checks, and get a few felons off the streets.


----------



## Old Rocks

jon_berzerk said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> bs there are plenty of alternatives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there were. We could just have had the National Guard in there with M-60's on the second day of the occupation and ended that nonsense right then and there. However, by letting it play out as it did, the nation was allowed to see how truly fruitloopy these assholes really are. And Cliven Bundy's ultimatum to the Sheriff of Harney County was the icing on the cake.
> Bundy then went on to take the sovereign position over the servants of the people
> 
> 
> Read more at Bundy Puts Harney County Sheriff on Notice: “We Will Retain Possession of the Harney County Resource Center” - Freedom Outpost
> 
> Total idiocy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> nonsense
Click to expand...

Of course it is. as is the crap from the Pacific Patriots group.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Old Rocks said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> The funeral is Friday, Feb. 5, in Kanab, Utah, Finicum's family said. More than 30 memorials, candlelight vigils and rallies in at least 17 states are planned for Feb. 5, Feb. 6 and Feb. 7.
> 
> LaVoy Finicum's death in Oregon occupation prompts memorials across country
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, excellent opportunity to take pictures, and do background checks, and get a few felons off the streets.
Click to expand...



tyrant


----------



## jon_berzerk

Old Rocks said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> 
> 
> I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> bs there are plenty of alternatives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course there were. We could just have had the National Guard in there with M-60's on the second day of the occupation and ended that nonsense right then and there. However, by letting it play out as it did, the nation was allowed to see how truly fruitloopy these assholes really are. And Cliven Bundy's ultimatum to the Sheriff of Harney County was the icing on the cake.
> Bundy then went on to take the sovereign position over the servants of the people
> 
> 
> Read more at Bundy Puts Harney County Sheriff on Notice: “We Will Retain Possession of the Harney County Resource Center” - Freedom Outpost
> 
> Total idiocy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> nonsense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course it is. as is the crap from the Pacific Patriots group.
Click to expand...



you are full of nonsense


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> The funeral is Friday, Feb. 5, in Kanab, Utah, Finicum's family said. More than 30 memorials, candlelight vigils and rallies in at least 17 states are planned for Feb. 5, Feb. 6 and Feb. 7.
> 
> LaVoy Finicum's death in Oregon occupation prompts memorials across country


So, where are the photo's and video's of these events?

The dispute between ranchers and the BLM and NFS and various landowners and US Government agencies has been hijacked by the radical extremist Sovereign Citizen movement. That movement has been rejected by American citizens for decades. Even that movement itself relies on even more radical extremist such as white supremacist and anarchist.

Folks who at first found common ground with the militia that took over the wildlife refuge have realized the mistake they made and have come to realize they were tricked by people who claimed to be there to help them but proved to have a separate and very different agenda.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> The funeral is Friday, Feb. 5, in Kanab, Utah, Finicum's family said. More than 30 memorials, candlelight vigils and rallies in at least 17 states are planned for Feb. 5, Feb. 6 and Feb. 7.
> 
> LaVoy Finicum's death in Oregon occupation prompts memorials across country
> 
> 
> 
> So, where are the photo's and video's of these events?
> 
> The dispute between ranchers and the BLM and NFS and various landowners and US Government agencies has been hijacked by the radical extremist Sovereign Citizen movement. That movement has been rejected by American citizens for decades. Even that movement itself relies on even more radical extremist such as white supremacist and anarchist.
> 
> Folks who at first found common ground with the militia that took over the wildlife refuge have realized the mistake they made and have come to realize they were tricked by people who claimed to be there to help them but proved to have a separate and very different agenda.
Click to expand...


do i look like a time traveler does article writer look like a futuristic time traveler as well 

*Feb. 6 and Feb. 7.*


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol. Now we all know thats not true. Three thousand attended finicums funeral, and there  are gatherings all over the nation protesting his death and demanding that federal pukes obey the law, stop fucking with people, and go back to dc where they belong. Nobody has started picking off blm and forest service officials, but they will. Fbi is still harassing ppl in harney county.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The group of locals on Monday in Burns were carrying signs stating that they wanted the FBI to stay, and the militia dingbats to leave. That was the locals. It was outsiders in the other group. People who were there only to cause trouble. And you know that is the truth, because right after you were calling the people of Burns and Harney County names.
Click to expand...

Employees of the state, transplants, their families, dependents of the state...and imports.

Burns is a company town lol.


----------



## koshergrl

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> The funeral is Friday, Feb. 5, in Kanab, Utah, Finicum's family said. More than 30 memorials, candlelight vigils and rallies in at least 17 states are planned for Feb. 5, Feb. 6 and Feb. 7.
> 
> LaVoy Finicum's death in Oregon occupation prompts memorials across country
> 
> 
> 
> So, where are the photo's and video's of these events?
> 
> The dispute between ranchers and the BLM and NFS and various landowners and US Government agencies has been hijacked by the radical extremist Sovereign Citizen movement. That movement has been rejected by American citizens for decades. Even that movement itself relies on even more radical extremist such as white supremacist and anarchist.
> 
> Folks who at first found common ground with the militia that took over the wildlife refuge have realized the mistake they made and have come to realize they were tricked by people who claimed to be there to help them but proved to have a separate and very different agenda.
Click to expand...

Not even close.


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> The funeral is Friday, Feb. 5, in Kanab, Utah, Finicum's family said. More than 30 memorials, candlelight vigils and rallies in at least 17 states are planned for Feb. 5, Feb. 6 and Feb. 7.
> 
> LaVoy Finicum's death in Oregon occupation prompts memorials across country
> 
> 
> 
> So, where are the photo's and video's of these events?
> 
> The dispute between ranchers and the BLM and NFS and various landowners and US Government agencies has been hijacked by the radical extremist Sovereign Citizen movement. That movement has been rejected by American citizens for decades. Even that movement itself relies on even more radical extremist such as white supremacist and anarchist.
> 
> Folks who at first found common ground with the militia that took over the wildlife refuge have realized the mistake they made and have come to realize they were tricked by people who claimed to be there to help them but proved to have a separate and very different agenda.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not even close.
Click to expand...


true


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you think he could see them in enough time to abide by this stopping distance?  Oh, and the dude from the FBI or Troopers runs right into the path, you can't be that fking blind are you?
> View attachment 62457
> 
> see no one in his path???????????
> 
> And then.....
> View attachment 62458
> 
> Where'd the fk he come from?  Oh yeah ran in the direction of the truck.  What a fking stupid fk.
> 
> so now tell me did he drive at the cop or did the cop go after his truck?  fking loser libturds.
> 
> 
> 
> You can see it for yourself. He first applies his brakes some 200 feet before reaching the road block and he still didn't stop in time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> funny how the whole thing could have been avoided
> 
> if they would have used road spikes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bulllshit
Click to expand...

_As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._

more...


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
Click to expand...

They serve to protect the people. They did an outstanding job.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Yawn what a statist creep you are.


An anarchist whining about statism.



Too funny.


----------



## Faun

Camp said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fuck you. Yes we are fully aware of the deadly and tyrannical nature of a government that is no longer answerable to the people, or restricted by the law. That's the point. They will continue to kill us...and eventually they'll become the target.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have become aware that you are a paranoid fool. Those assholes were breaking the law, threatening the people and law of Harney County with their weapons. There was no other end it could come to than this. That only one of the felons paid for their actions with their life is a credit to the restraint on the part of the law officers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol. Now we all know thats not true. Three thousand attended finicums funeral, and there  are gatherings all over the nation protesting his death and demanding that federal pukes obey the law, stop fucking with people, and go back to dc where they belong. Nobody has started picking off blm and forest service officials, but they will. Fbi is still harassing ppl in harney county.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does this figure of three thousand come from? I found a blog site that said "thousands" but news sources say less than a thousand. Only FOX News in Salt Lake claims "over a thousand". I found nothing about "gatherings all over the nation". None of the video's or photo's indicate thousands in attendance.
Click to expand...

"Hundreds" attended...

LaVoy Finicum funeral Oregon standoff | KGW.com


----------



## jc456

IsaacNewton said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IsaacNewton said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing if they all just put their hands up the first time the FBI said "put your hands up" at the first stop, this would have been a tiny news blurb that already disappeared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.  But that is not what happened so now we are left to argue over the slop the .gov has tried to feed the masses and what is closer to some semblance of truth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a video, and the instant replay is at best inconclusive so the call on the field stands.
> 
> By the way, all the talk about 'our 2nd amendment rights and they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead hands and the gubment blah blah blah".   This is what happens. Its easy, lazy, and fake machismo to walk into a Wendy's with a rifle slung over your shoulder. When you actually have to face other men that are professionally trained to handle belligerents that have guns you see what happens. They don't play games. And in the end this is what these squatters were doing, playing games like its a game to wave a weapon at other people.
> 
> It isn't. Ever.
Click to expand...

What about cops that go out daily info areas that the people want to kill them ? They don't get that same benefit eh? As I stated earlier, you all are hypocrites


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can see it for yourself. He first applies his brakes some 200 feet before reaching the road block and he still didn't stop in time.
> 
> 
> 
> Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> funny how the whole thing could have been avoided
> 
> if they would have used road spikes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bulllshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
Click to expand...



so says the fbi how in the fuck did they get around it 

with three foot ditches and a ATF drone following their every move 

use your brain for once dildo


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can see it for yourself. He first applies his brakes some 200 feet before reaching the road block and he still didn't stop in time.
> 
> 
> 
> Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> funny how the whole thing could have been avoided
> 
> if they would have used road spikes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bulllshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
Click to expand...

No, I posted what actually happened and how the fbi dude ran out in front of the white truck. You should open your eyes when you watch a video it helps describe what actually happened. LOL


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can see it for yourself. He first applies his brakes some 200 feet before reaching the road block and he still didn't stop in time.
> 
> 
> 
> Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> funny how the whole thing could have been avoided
> 
> if they would have used road spikes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bulllshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
Click to expand...



i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen 

and there is no spike strips 

so either you are lying or you have not watched the video 

so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> funny how the whole thing could have been avoided
> 
> if they would have used road spikes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bulllshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, I posted what actually happened and how the fbi dude ran out in front of the white truck. You should open your eyes when you watch a video it helps describe what actually happened. LOL
Click to expand...



there is not any spikes on the roadway


----------



## jon_berzerk

*Judge handling Oregon standoff case allows defendant to attend LaVoy Finicum funeral*


Shawna Cox, one of the 16 people indicted on a federal conspiracy charge in the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, was granted permission Friday morning to attend the funeral of Robert "LaVoy'' Finicum, who was killed during a police stop last week.
Cox's lawyer had appealed to U.S. District Court Judge Anna J. Brown, who heard an emergency motion and reversed a magistrate judge's decision earlier in the week that barred Cox from going to the funeral.
The funeral is scheduled for 1:30 p.m. PST in Cox's hometown, Kanab, Utah.

[FONT=Benton Sans, Arial, sans-serif]Judge handling Oregon standoff case allows defendant to attend LaVoy Finicum funeral[/FONT]


----------



## koshergrl

Not only that...originally the pos judge told her that she could be released...but not attend the funeral. Her attendance there was a result of a second ruling.

They also put the old dude from Irrigon in jail...all he did was ride around with a flag and talk to people.

There was a large collection of tribute memorabilia at the murder scene...someone removed it, secretly, to the consternation of the residents of the county who aren't bought and paid by the govt.


----------



## koshergrl




----------



## koshergrl

Old fag is full of shit when he talks about the residents of Oregon rural lands.


----------



## Old Rocks

There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's  felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.

Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding


----------



## koshergrl

Old Rocks said:


> There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's  felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
> 
> Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding


Shut up, you statist turd. Nobody believes a word you say...


----------



## koshergrl

They also had a crowd in john day today..Oregon standoff: LaVoy Finicum memorial torn down and rebuilt


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> That's one theory. Not one that I agree with, but it is one.
> 
> Personally, I don't think it was Finicum's intent to shoot anyone. I believe he wanted police to shoot him because as he said, he would rather die than go to prison. I also believe he jumped out of his vehicle with his hands up and trotted away from the vehicle to draw the police away from it so no one inside would get hurt when police killed him. And lastly, I believe when he was clear from the vehicle, he lowered his hand in a motion as if he were going for a gun while shouting at the police, _"just shoot me."_
> 
> They did. That's what he wanted.
> 
> His death is nothing more than suicide by cop.



Thank you for your candor.  Your theory is also one that is very possible.  I do appreciate the fact that you did not just chant the same mantra as skylar, carla, and others do as a blanket answer.  There may be hope for you yet, lol.

And on the "high rate", it seems as though Shawna Cox has come out and said LaVoy might have hit as much as 60mph so I suppose I must stop arguing on that as well, since IMHO the threshold is about 50mph.


----------



## Vandalshandle

I am deeply concerned about what a bunch of fat assed old men wearing cowboy hats up in Oregon think about using federal land for free. It is enough to fill me with patriotism and pride. Unfortunately, I have had very little experience crying myself to sleep every night was a victim, so I don't think that I would fit in to their little gang of yahoos.......


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> Then give the Forest Service the money and resources to thin and clear. At present, all their resources are going to fight fires.



You sir are way out of touch.  The Forest Service has plenty of resources that are for thinning and clearing, but it is the environmentalist that eat away these fund through lawsuits to prevent just that.  And so all they are left with is attempting to fight the fires; fires that would be much easier to figh if it weren't for the environmentalists.


----------



## Carla_Danger

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's one theory. Not one that I agree with, but it is one.
> 
> Personally, I don't think it was Finicum's intent to shoot anyone. I believe he wanted police to shoot him because as he said, he would rather die than go to prison. I also believe he jumped out of his vehicle with his hands up and trotted away from the vehicle to draw the police away from it so no one inside would get hurt when police killed him. And lastly, I believe when he was clear from the vehicle, he lowered his hand in a motion as if he were going for a gun while shouting at the police, _"just shoot me."_
> 
> They did. That's what he wanted.
> 
> His death is nothing more than suicide by cop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your candor.  Your theory is also one that is very possible.  I do appreciate the fact that you did not just chant the same mantra as skylar, carla, and others do as a blanket answer.  There may be hope for you yet, lol.
> 
> And on the "high rate", it seems as though Shawna Cox has come out and said LaVoy might have hit as much as 60mph so I suppose I must stop arguing on that as well, since IMHO the threshold is about 50mph.
Click to expand...



Odd, isn't it?




Carla_Danger said:


> *A deliberate case of suicide by cop.*


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> Like I said, excellent opportunity to take pictures, and do background checks, and get a few felons off the streets.



"Well said Comrade. We appreciate your furthering of our statist cause and continued chanting of our mantra.  You will go far in the party, Comrade. Your reward awaits you."


----------



## teddyearp

Camp said:


> So, where are the photo's and video's of these events?



Sometimes it takes a while.  Here's one:

Oregon standoff: LaVoy Finicum memorial torn down and rebuilt

It talks about the memorial service along US395 and mentions John Day, the city that has a clue.  Here's another in Yakima, WA:

Yakima rally honors slain Oregon refuge occupier

Sure, not 'thousands' but certainly there were at least two or three that can be documented so far.


----------



## Andylusion

Old Rocks said:


> There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's  felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
> 
> Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding



It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.

Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?

Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land.   The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.

Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land.    We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.



 
The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.

Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government!   It's not supposed to be that way.   We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.

It's ridiculous.

Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses?  No, not so much.    But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.

This problem likely won't go away.


----------



## teddyearp

koshergrl said:


> View attachment 62603



Nice, where did those come from?


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> <snip>Had it not been a workday, <snip>



Last time I checked most folks have Saturday and Sundays off.  At least those who are more prominent in the community. . . .


----------



## teddyearp

Vandalshandle said:


> I am deeply concerned about what a bunch of fat assed old men wearing cowboy hats up in Oregon think about using federal land for free. It is enough to fill me with patriotism and pride. Unfortunately, I have had very little experience crying myself to sleep every night was a victim, so I don't think that I would fit in to their little gang of yahoos.......



And I bet you could care less about a bunch of skinny ass cartel mules going through your lands in southern AZ either.


----------



## teddyearp

Carla_Danger said:


> Odd, isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carla_Danger said:
> 
> 
> 
> *A deliberate case of suicide by cop.*
Click to expand...


Nope, not coming from you.  You have long ago showed me that you are not capable of independent thought.


----------



## teddyearp

Andylusion said:


> Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?<snip>



Spot on.  Thanks to another voice of reason.


----------



## Vandalshandle

teddyearp said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am deeply concerned about what a bunch of fat assed old men wearing cowboy hats up in Oregon think about using federal land for free. It is enough to fill me with patriotism and pride. Unfortunately, I have had very little experience crying myself to sleep every night was a victim, so I don't think that I would fit in to their little gang of yahoos.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I bet you could care less about a bunch of skinny ass cartel mules going through your lands in southern AZ either.
Click to expand...


I have parsed your post upwards, downwards, sideways, and diagonally, but, I confess that I simply can not find even a remote link between your post and this thread's topic, or even to my post. Are you sure that you are on the right thread?


----------



## teddyearp

Vandalshandle said:


> I have parsed your post upwards, downwards, sideways, and diagonally, but, I confess that I simply can not find even a remote link between your post and this thread's topic, or even to my post. Are you sure that you are on the right thread?



Nope, you are correct.  I posted out of a sheer emotional response only based upon your location; since your post did not seem to actually address any actual facts and was IMHO also a post based upon sheer emotion.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> They also had a crowd in john day today..Oregon standoff: LaVoy Finicum memorial torn down and rebuilt


Oregon standoff: LaVoy Finicum memorial torn down and rebuilt

No law enforcement agency had anything to do with the destruction of the site, an Oregon State Police spokesman said. An Oregon Department of Transportation spokesman said the agency played no role in its removal.

Finicum was buried Friday, Feb. 5 in his hometown of Kanab, Utah.

Burns has also been showing signs of weariness. Two billboards went up Friday expressing support for law enforcement and community pride in what appeared to be a tacit rebuke of the occupation.

The front page of the local newspaper, Burns Times-Herald, said it succinctly: "Go home militia!"

*That what most of the people of that area want, for the damned fools to get out of their lives, and let them go back to living as they had been. *


----------



## Old Rocks

teddyearp said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then give the Forest Service the money and resources to thin and clear. At present, all their resources are going to fight fires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You sir are way out of touch.  The Forest Service has plenty of resources that are for thinning and clearing, but it is the environmentalist that eat away these fund through lawsuits to prevent just that.  And so all they are left with is attempting to fight the fires; fires that would be much easier to figh if it weren't for the environmentalists.
Click to expand...

*And you are a Goddamned liar*.

How Wildfires Are Burning through the Forest Service Budget  |  American Forests

A report released by the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) earlier this month has revealed a stunning increase in wildfire suppression costs. This past year, more than half of the organization’s budget went to fire suppression, a first in USFS history and a stark comparison to the 16 percent of the budget allocated to wildfire suppression in 1995. This exponential growth shows no sign of stopping anytime soon, with 67 percent of the budget estimated to go to wildfire suppression by 2025 if left unchecked.

*What’s Causing the Dramatic Increase?*






Suppressing wildland fires is a costly process that requires a lot of expensive equipment. How in the world are we spending so much money on combating wildfires?

First and foremost, more development is taking place than ever before in fire-prone areas, which means that the USFS must prioritize their limited resources to protect lives and property.

Due to the changing climate, the average wildfire season is now 78 days longer than in 1970, increasing it to almost 300 days in some areas. These days, the U.S. is burning twice as many acres as it did three decades ago.

So, is the USFS just doing a bad job at putting out fires?

No! In fact, even as the wildfires have continued to grow, the USFS, and related firefighting agencies, manage to suppress 98% of all wildfires. However, it’s this 1 to 2 percent of the most extreme wildfires that end up devouring at least 30% of the firefighting budget.

Drought, variations in temperature and a buildup of fire-prone vegetation have combined to create some truly immense fires that are burning hotter and longer than ever before.





The costs will of fighting wildland fires will continue to increase until we invest more in preventative measures. Photo credit: USFS, “The Rising Cost of Wildfire Operations.”


----------



## Old Rocks

teddyearp said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>Had it not been a workday, <snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last time I checked most folks have Saturday and Sundays off.  At least those who are more prominent in the community. . . .
Click to expand...

The subject was the protests in Burns on Monday. Pay attention, old man.


----------



## Vandalshandle

teddyearp said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have parsed your post upwards, downwards, sideways, and diagonally, but, I confess that I simply can not find even a remote link between your post and this thread's topic, or even to my post. Are you sure that you are on the right thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, you are correct.  I posted out of a sheer emotional response only based upon your location; since your post did not seem to actually address any actual facts and was IMHO also a post based upon sheer emotion.
Click to expand...


Well, I am not a very emotional guy, but I am weary of these freeloading John Wayne wannabe's whining week after week because they can't have something that they want for free. It was amusing at first. Now, it is just plain boring.


----------



## Old Rocks

Andylusion said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's  felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
> 
> Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
> 
> Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?
> 
> Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land.   The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
> 
> Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land.    We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
> 
> View attachment 62618
> The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
> 
> Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government!   It's not supposed to be that way.   We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
> 
> It's ridiculous.
> 
> Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses?  No, not so much.    But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
> 
> This problem likely won't go away.
Click to expand...

And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.

That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Vandalshandle said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have parsed your post upwards, downwards, sideways, and diagonally, but, I confess that I simply can not find even a remote link between your post and this thread's topic, or even to my post. Are you sure that you are on the right thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, you are correct.  I posted out of a sheer emotional response only based upon your location; since your post did not seem to actually address any actual facts and was IMHO also a post based upon sheer emotion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I am not a very emotional guy, but I am weary of these freeloading John Wayne wannabe's whining week after week because they can't have something that they want for free. It was amusing at first. Now, it is just plain boring.
Click to expand...


Really? But then again who asked you?
If you don't find it entertaining why keep posting on the thread? What happened to the idea that this was all over a week or two ago? Think people are beginning to understand why I said the Feds fucked up?


----------



## koshergrl

Vandalshandle said:


> I am deeply concerned about what a bunch of fat assed old men wearing cowboy hats up in Oregon think about using federal land for free. It is enough to fill me with patriotism and pride. Unfortunately, I have had very little experience crying myself to sleep every night was a victim, so I don't think that I would fit in to their little gang of yahoos.......


No, you wouldn't. They aren't into biker faggots.


----------



## Vandalshandle

9thIDdoc said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have parsed your post upwards, downwards, sideways, and diagonally, but, I confess that I simply can not find even a remote link between your post and this thread's topic, or even to my post. Are you sure that you are on the right thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, you are correct.  I posted out of a sheer emotional response only based upon your location; since your post did not seem to actually address any actual facts and was IMHO also a post based upon sheer emotion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, I am not a very emotional guy, but I am weary of these freeloading John Wayne wannabe's whining week after week because they can't have something that they want for free. It was amusing at first. Now, it is just plain boring.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? But then again who asked you?
> If you don't find it entertaining why keep posting on the thread? What happened to the idea that this was all over a week or two ago? Think people are beginning to understand why I said the Feds fucked up?
Click to expand...


You are absolutely right, so I am clickicking on the "unwatch thread" button.
However, I hate to leave without telling Koshergirl "Goodby". Please tell her that I love her, but don't want anyone to know it!


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well fk, there was a road block and they weren't marked . What the fk!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> funny how the whole thing could have been avoided
> 
> if they would have used road spikes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bulllshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
Click to expand...

I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.


----------



## Andylusion

Old Rocks said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's  felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
> 
> Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
> 
> Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?
> 
> Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land.   The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
> 
> Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land.    We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
> 
> View attachment 62618
> The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
> 
> Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government!   It's not supposed to be that way.   We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
> 
> It's ridiculous.
> 
> Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses?  No, not so much.    But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
> 
> This problem likely won't go away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.
> 
> That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
Click to expand...


Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone

“If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”

Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
“What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”

On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.​You fail.  It's not cheaper.  

Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter.   You are dictating to these people, how they live.   Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system.     Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.

And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone.   What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land?     Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.

But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.

Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993.   What happened?   The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle.    So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.

That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it".     Now listen you self centered dirty old man....  if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you.....   Would you be sitting here defending them?   As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?

Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that.  You'd be bouncing off the roof.    Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.


----------



## Camp

Andylusion said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's  felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
> 
> Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
> 
> Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?
> 
> Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land.   The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
> 
> Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land.    We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
> 
> View attachment 62618
> The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government!   It's not supposed to be that way.   We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
> 
> It's ridiculous.
> 
> Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses?  No, not so much.    But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
> 
> This problem likely won't go away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.
> 
> That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
> 
> “If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”
> 
> Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
> “What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
> 
> On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.​You fail.  It's not cheaper.
> 
> Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter.   You are dictating to these people, how they live.   Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system.     Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
> 
> And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone.   What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land?     Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
> 
> But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
> 
> Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993.   What happened?   The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle.    So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
> 
> That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it".     Now listen you self centered dirty old man....  if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you.....   Would you be sitting here defending them?   As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
> 
> Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that.  You'd be bouncing off the roof.    Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
Click to expand...

This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article  titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers. 
At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able  to operate a profitable ranch  without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> funny how the whole thing could have been avoided
> 
> if they would have used road spikes
> 
> 
> 
> They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> bulllshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
Click to expand...



couldnt find on the video huh

that is because there was not one

it would have been completely stupid 

for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bulllshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
Click to expand...

Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.


----------



## jon_berzerk

at 7:54  you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> bulllshit
> 
> 
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.
Click to expand...



hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL

funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL
> 
> funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip
Click to expand...

Says you, an Internet nutcase.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> at 7:54  you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door


So? The FBI said they fired _"sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."_


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL
> 
> funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Says you, an Internet nutcase.
Click to expand...



--LOL

a stock photo 

by the way you think that spike placement  is appropriate 

you are a fucktard if you think so 

btw where do you think the opening to an inside pocket 

of a hunting jacket is


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> at 7:54  you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The FBI said they fired _"sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."_
Click to expand...


why would they be shooting them with 

oxycontin 

face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL
> 
> funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Says you, an Internet nutcase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> --LOL
> 
> a stock photo
> 
> by the way you think that spike placement  is appropriate
> 
> you are a fucktard if you think so
> 
> btw where do you think the opening to an inside pocket
> 
> of a hunting jacket is
Click to expand...

I think the police know better than you.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> at 7:54  you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The FBI said they fired _"sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why would they be shooting them with
> 
> oxycontin
> 
> face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
Click to expand...

Your delusions worsen. 

I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."


----------



## jon_berzerk

After deploying the system, personnel at the scene shall immediately seek protection. All bystanders shall be removed from the immediate area. Uninvolved vehicles, in so far as practical, shall be moved to a position beyond the setup area to minimize the possibility of collision with the suspect vehicle.
lakemillspolice.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/*SPIKE*.doc
which is not what you claim happened


Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> 
> 
> Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL
> 
> funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Says you, an Internet nutcase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> --LOL
> 
> a stock photo
> 
> by the way you think that spike placement  is appropriate
> 
> you are a fucktard if you think so
> 
> btw where do you think the opening to an inside pocket
> 
> of a hunting jacket is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the police know better than you.
Click to expand...



if you think that is an appropriate placement you are 

in fact an idiot without question 

DEAPRTMENT PROCEDURES BY NAME


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> at 7:54  you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The FBI said they fired _"sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why would they be shooting them with
> 
> oxycontin
> 
> face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your delusions worsen.
> 
> I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."
Click to expand...


so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh 

well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> After deploying the system, personnel at the scene shall immediately seek protection. All bystanders shall be removed from the immediate area. Uninvolved vehicles, in so far as practical, shall be moved to a position beyond the setup area to minimize the possibility of collision with the suspect vehicle.
> lakemillspolice.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/*SPIKE*.doc
> which is not what you claim happened
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I'm gonna take your word from watching a grainy video shot from a plane over the law enforcement agents who were there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hey asshole the cops would never place a strip where you said it was --LOL
> 
> funny all the cops trailing him also "missed" your imaginary spike strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Says you, an Internet nutcase.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> --LOL
> 
> a stock photo
> 
> by the way you think that spike placement  is appropriate
> 
> you are a fucktard if you think so
> 
> btw where do you think the opening to an inside pocket
> 
> of a hunting jacket is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think the police know better than you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> if you think that is an appropriate placement you are
> 
> in fact an idiot without question
> 
> DEAPRTMENT PROCEDURES BY NAME
Click to expand...

I like how you think procedures in Wisconsin matter in this case.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> at 7:54  you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The FBI said they fired _"sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why would they be shooting them with
> 
> oxycontin
> 
> face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your delusions worsen.
> 
> I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh
> 
> well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame
Click to expand...

I don't see a spike strip which may blend in with the asphalt on a grainy video shot from a plane. That doesn't mean one wasn't depoyed. The FBI says one was used and you can't prove they were lying.


----------



## Andylusion

Camp said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's  felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
> 
> Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
> 
> Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?
> 
> Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land.   The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
> 
> Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land.    We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
> 
> View attachment 62618
> The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government!   It's not supposed to be that way.   We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
> 
> It's ridiculous.
> 
> Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses?  No, not so much.    But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
> 
> This problem likely won't go away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.
> 
> That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
> 
> “If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”
> 
> Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
> “What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
> 
> On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.​You fail.  It's not cheaper.
> 
> Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter.   You are dictating to these people, how they live.   Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system.     Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
> 
> And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone.   What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land?     Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
> 
> But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
> 
> Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993.   What happened?   The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle.    So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
> 
> That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it".     Now listen you self centered dirty old man....  if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you.....   Would you be sitting here defending them?   As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
> 
> Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that.  You'd be bouncing off the roof.    Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article  titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.
> At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able  to operate a profitable ranch  without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
Click to expand...


So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them?   No you can not.

Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this?  No you can not.

Which specific program are you talking about.

Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.

That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.

If you doubt that, fine.  Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.


----------



## Camp

Andylusion said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's  felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
> 
> Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
> 
> Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?
> 
> Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land.   The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
> 
> Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land.    We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
> 
> View attachment 62618
> The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government!   It's not supposed to be that way.   We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
> 
> It's ridiculous.
> 
> Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses?  No, not so much.    But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
> 
> This problem likely won't go away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.
> 
> That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
> 
> “If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”
> 
> Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
> “What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
> 
> On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.​You fail.  It's not cheaper.
> 
> Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter.   You are dictating to these people, how they live.   Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system.     Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
> 
> And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone.   What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land?     Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
> 
> But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
> 
> Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993.   What happened?   The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle.    So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
> 
> That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it".     Now listen you self centered dirty old man....  if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you.....   Would you be sitting here defending them?   As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
> 
> Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that.  You'd be bouncing off the roof.    Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article  titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.
> At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able  to operate a profitable ranch  without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them?   No you can not.
> 
> Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this?  No you can not.
> 
> Which specific program are you talking about.
> 
> Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
> 
> That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
> 
> If you doubt that, fine.  Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
Click to expand...

I used your linked article to make my point, which was that when the article is read in full it tells a different one than you are projecting. The proof is available to anyone who cares. All the have to do is read the artilce from start to finish. 
In regards to Bundy not being subsidized, that is simply not true. The reason he owes the government and taxpayers money is because he has been feeding his cattle on federal land and not paying the fees that other ranchers pay. He is stealing from all of us. The feds have already figured out the best way to collect his debt is to wait for him to pass away. His family ranch will be used to pay off what the estate owes and the Bundy property will be sold to collect the debt.


----------



## koshergrl

Andylusion said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's  felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
> 
> Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
> 
> Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?
> 
> Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land.   The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
> 
> Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land.    We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
> 
> View attachment 62618
> The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government!   It's not supposed to be that way.   We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
> 
> It's ridiculous.
> 
> Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses?  No, not so much.    But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
> 
> This problem likely won't go away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.
> 
> That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
> 
> “If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”
> 
> Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
> “What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
> 
> On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.​You fail.  It's not cheaper.
> 
> Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter.   You are dictating to these people, how they live.   Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system.     Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
> 
> And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone.   What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land?     Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
> 
> But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
> 
> Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993.   What happened?   The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle.    So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
> 
> That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it".     Now listen you self centered dirty old man....  if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you.....   Would you be sitting here defending them?   As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
> 
> Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that.  You'd be bouncing off the roof.    Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article  titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.
> At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able  to operate a profitable ranch  without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them?   No you can not.
> 
> Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this?  No you can not.
> 
> Which specific program are you talking about.
> 
> Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
> 
> That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
> 
> If you doubt that, fine.  Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
Click to expand...

Nobody wants to sell federal lands..because, you see, there are no federal lands to sell.


----------



## Camp

koshergrl said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
> 
> Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?
> 
> Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land.   The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
> 
> Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land.    We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
> 
> View attachment 62618
> The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government!   It's not supposed to be that way.   We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
> 
> It's ridiculous.
> 
> Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses?  No, not so much.    But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
> 
> This problem likely won't go away.
> 
> 
> 
> And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.
> 
> That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
> 
> “If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”
> 
> Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
> “What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
> 
> On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.​You fail.  It's not cheaper.
> 
> Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter.   You are dictating to these people, how they live.   Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system.     Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
> 
> And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone.   What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land?     Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
> 
> But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
> 
> Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993.   What happened?   The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle.    So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
> 
> That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it".     Now listen you self centered dirty old man....  if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you.....   Would you be sitting here defending them?   As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
> 
> Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that.  You'd be bouncing off the roof.    Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article  titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.
> At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able  to operate a profitable ranch  without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them?   No you can not.
> 
> Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this?  No you can not.
> 
> Which specific program are you talking about.
> 
> Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
> 
> That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
> 
> If you doubt that, fine.  Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody wants to sell federal lands..because, you see, there are no federal lands to sell.
Click to expand...

That is what Festus Slow Draw" Finicum said. All three branches of the United States government say otherwise. It is your word and the echo of Festus's word against everyone who counts.


----------



## Old Rocks

Andylusion said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were over 300 locals demonstrating in Burns against the militia's. There were about 200 outsiders, with just a handful of locals, demonstrating for Bundy's  felons. Had it not been a workday, there would have been significantly more people telling the militia that they were unwelcome. Which brings up another point, how is it that the members of the militia's can live without an income. Guess what, most of them are supported by Uncle Sugar.
> 
> Here Is How The Bundy Militia Standoff Couldn’t Exist Without Government Funding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
> 
> Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?
> 
> Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land.   The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
> 
> Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land.    We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
> 
> View attachment 62618
> The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government!   It's not supposed to be that way.   We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
> 
> It's ridiculous.
> 
> Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses?  No, not so much.    But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
> 
> This problem likely won't go away.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.
> 
> That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
> 
> “If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”
> 
> Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
> “What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
> 
> On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.​You fail.  It's not cheaper.
> 
> Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter.   You are dictating to these people, how they live.   Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system.     Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
> 
> And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone.   What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land?     Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
> 
> But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
> 
> Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993.   What happened?   The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle.    So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
> 
> That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it".     Now listen you self centered dirty old man....  if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you.....   Would you be sitting here defending them?   As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
> 
> Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that.  You'd be bouncing off the roof.    Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article  titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.
> At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able  to operate a profitable ranch  without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them?   No you can not.
> 
> Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this?  No you can not.
> 
> Which specific program are you talking about.
> 
> Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
> 
> That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
> 
> If you doubt that, fine.  Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
Click to expand...

And that is exactly what you ideological idiots want. Sell the land to the highest bidder. Saudis, Chinese, and Japanese. Then see what beef costs us all, if it is not all exported. And the small ranchers will no longer exist. You are truly one stupid fruitloop.


----------



## Old Rocks

koshergrl said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny how any other protest, and you support the people against injustice, until it's a group you don't like, and then they are evil militias.
> 
> Look, here's the problem.....    Do you know what Feudalism is?
> 
> Without getting deep into mechanics, basically the government (Feudal Lord), owns all the land.   The peasants 'rent' the land on behalf of the government.
> 
> Our country was built on the idea of individuals owning the land.    We were never supposed to be a Feudal system.
> 
> View attachment 62618
> The percentage of the state in red, is how much of the state land, is owned by the Federal Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Out west, there are states like Nevada, where 85% of the entire freakin state... is owned by the Federal Government!   It's not supposed to be that way.   We are not supposed to be a Feudal system, where the government owns the land, and we are good little peasants paying rent to use... what is supposed to be OUR LAND.
> 
> It's ridiculous.
> 
> Now do I support grabbing a bunch of guns and taking over out houses?  No, not so much.    But.... this hatred of the Federal Government, is going to grow and grow, until you guys stop treating the people out west, like they are peasants that owe the rest of us rent, to use their own land.
> 
> This problem likely won't go away.
> 
> 
> 
> And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.
> 
> That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
> 
> “If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”
> 
> Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
> “What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
> 
> On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.​You fail.  It's not cheaper.
> 
> Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter.   You are dictating to these people, how they live.   Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system.     Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
> 
> And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone.   What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land?     Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
> 
> But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
> 
> Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993.   What happened?   The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle.    So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
> 
> That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it".     Now listen you self centered dirty old man....  if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you.....   Would you be sitting here defending them?   As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
> 
> Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that.  You'd be bouncing off the roof.    Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article  titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.
> At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able  to operate a profitable ranch  without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them?   No you can not.
> 
> Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this?  No you can not.
> 
> Which specific program are you talking about.
> 
> Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
> 
> That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
> 
> If you doubt that, fine.  Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody wants to sell federal lands..because, you see, there are no federal lands to sell.
Click to expand...

LOL. Just go ahead and argue that with the Feds. But don't reach for a gun.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> at 7:54  you can see the fbi firing on the truck passenger door
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So? The FBI said they fired _"sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> why would they be shooting them with
> 
> oxycontin
> 
> face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your delusions worsen.
> 
> I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh
> 
> well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see a spike strip which may blend in with the asphalt on a grainy video shot from a plane. That doesn't mean one wasn't deployed. The FBI says one was used and you can't prove they were lying.
Click to expand...


first off it was not a plane it was a drone 

did you happen to notice the wrong date in the corner by chance 

you cant see the spike because it is not there 

it certainly isnt where you claimed it would be 

equally odd the several cops following him 

also "missed" the spike strip 

the video proves they are either lying about the spike 

or 

lying that the video was unedited 

which is it


----------



## jon_berzerk

Old Rocks said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> And who the hell says it is not supposed to be that way? And, dumb fuck, you graze your cows on private land, and it is $20 per unit per month. On the government land, $1.63. In other words, the government is subsidizing the ranchers, and we who eat the beef that they produce. A good system for all. And that is land that any citizen can go hiking, hunting, or fishing on without paying or asking permission. It is our land.
> 
> That silly ass goofballs like you are trying to take that away from the rest of us is evidence that you are not my or any other person that enjoys our nations beauty friend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
> 
> “If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”
> 
> Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
> “What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
> 
> On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.​You fail.  It's not cheaper.
> 
> Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter.   You are dictating to these people, how they live.   Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system.     Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
> 
> And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone.   What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land?     Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
> 
> But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
> 
> Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993.   What happened?   The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle.    So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
> 
> That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it".     Now listen you self centered dirty old man....  if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you.....   Would you be sitting here defending them?   As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
> 
> Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that.  You'd be bouncing off the roof.    Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article  titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.
> At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able  to operate a profitable ranch  without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them?   No you can not.
> 
> Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this?  No you can not.
> 
> Which specific program are you talking about.
> 
> Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
> 
> That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
> 
> If you doubt that, fine.  Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody wants to sell federal lands..because, you see, there are no federal lands to sell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Just go ahead and argue that with the Feds. But don't reach for a gun.
Click to expand...



funny where he is reaching is not 

where the mouth of that inside pocket is 

you fuckers are so unobservant


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> So? The FBI said they fired "sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why would they be shooting them with
> 
> oxycontin
> 
> face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your delusions worsen.
> 
> I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh
> 
> well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see a spike strip which may blend in with the asphalt on a grainy video shot from a plane. That doesn't mean one wasn't deployed. The FBI says one was used and you can't prove they were lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> which is it
Click to expand...

The FBI says the video was shot from a plane. Who knows why you think I would talk your word over theirs.



jon_berzerk said:


> did you happen to notice the wrong date in the corner by chance


It's not the wrong date. 

Pilots fly using Zulu time, which is 8 hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time.

Yet another example where you brain-dead conspiracists imagine your delusions are reality.



jon_berzerk said:


> you cant see the spike because it is not there
> 
> it certainly isnt where you claimed it would be


Again, that's it's not visible in a grainy video following a car in motion from a plane doesn't mean it's not there. Again, if the strip is black, and some are, I can believe it's not easily seen from that height as it would blend in with the asphalt.



jon_berzerk said:


> equally odd the several cops following him
> 
> also "missed" the spike strip



Not odd at all since they ALL stopped short of the roadblock. That could very well be why they didn't pull all the way up when they approached. Or it could be that someone pulled up the spike strip immediately after Finicum passed it.  Neither one of us knows. What we do know is the FBI says a spike strip was employed.



jon_berzerk said:


> the video proves they are either lying about the spike
> 
> or
> 
> lying that the video was unedited


The video proves you're deranged.

And again, if the video was edited -- *prove it.*


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not A Great Deal For Anyone
> 
> “If you just look at the grazing fee itself, and you see the small amount on public land and then a 10-fold increase on private land grazing fees, it looks like — people call it a subsidy,” said John Tanaka, a rangeland economist at the University of Wyoming. “But when you consider all the costs involved in grazing, they’re roughly equal. Or in some cases, public land grazing can cost the rancher more.”
> 
> Joe Villagrana, a ranch manager from Lake County, in Southeast Oregon, says permits on public land carry their own costs.
> “What people don’t realize is, by holding the permit, you are responsible for maintaining the fences, maintaining water, for example like water troughs,” Villagrana said. “And that costs money. So you add up time, labor, fuel, material and all that, it actually gets to be very expensive. So yeah, that sounds pretty cheap, but with everything that’s put on us to keep that permit, it costs us a lot of money.”
> 
> On private lands, a lot of this infrastructure is already included in that up-front price.​You fail.  It's not cheaper.
> 
> Moreover.... even if it was cheaper... which it is not.... doesn't matter.   You are dictating to these people, how they live.   Just like a king does to a peasant, in a Feudal system.     Funny how you talk about freedom from oppression, and then give every justification for it you can.
> 
> And lastly, you also ignore that perhaps the rancher could buy his own land, and not pay a fee to anyone.   What if the fee was no $20, or $1.63, but was zero, because he bought the land?     Oh wait... they can't because 85% of the freakin state is owned by the Feudal lords in Washington.
> 
> But that's not even the end of the argument..... because you don't even know what triggered the problem to begin with.
> 
> Cliven Bundy originally paid his permit fees routinely, year over year, until 1993.   What happened?   The Feudal Lords decided that he was not allowed to graze so many cattle.... supposedly because of a turtle.    So they simply refused to give him permits for all his cattle.
> 
> That's effectively saying "Old Rocks, you are not allowed to earn as much money anymore, and since we own your land, you can't do jack about it".     Now listen you self centered dirty old man....  if YOU had been told by the Feudal Lords, that you simply were not allowed to earn as much money, and screw you.....   Would you be sitting here defending them?   As you are when it's Cliven Bundy's livelihood?
> 
> Don't even attempt to tell me a narcissistic guy like you, would agree to that.  You'd be bouncing off the roof.    Again you talk about freedom from oppression in other posts, and then turn right around and give every justification for it here.
> 
> 
> 
> This is an edited and cherry-picked portion of an article with the posters comments added to shape a one sided story. The article  titled "Controversial Federal Grazing Fees Not a Great Deal For Anyone" needs to be paid attention to. The rest of the story, the part omitted, gives the story of how the taxpayers are subsidizing the ranchers and losing money every year due to the program that supports the ranchers and is a losing battle to provide a balance that is fair to both the ranchers and the taxpayers.
> At some point. it becomes obvious that some ranchers are not, and never will be able  to operate a profitable ranch  without government financial assistance and taxpayer subsidies in the 21rst Century.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So as to the facts presented in the article..... can you argue with any of them?   No you can not.
> 
> Can you argue with the trained economist which researched this?  No you can not.
> 
> Which specific program are you talking about.
> 
> Without any doubt, it is true that any support program is going to result in businesses which can not survive without the support.
> 
> That said, it doesn't apply to Cliven Bundy, because he's been operating without support for years.
> 
> If you doubt that, fine.  Sell the Federal lands, and eliminate the support programs, and we'll see which of us is right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nobody wants to sell federal lands..because, you see, there are no federal lands to sell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Just go ahead and argue that with the Feds. But don't reach for a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> funny where he is reaching is not
> 
> where the mouth of that inside pocket is
> 
> you fuckers are so unobservant
Click to expand...

So you claim. You weren't there.

And the fact of the matter is -- it doesn't matter if there was a pocket there or not; nor does it matter if there was even a gun in his pocket.

When you ignore police orders and you run from the police, who have reasonable suspicion that you are armed -- and when they corner you, you motion that you're reaching for a weapon -- the police are justified in shooting you first and asking questions later.

No cop in the U.S. has to wait until the person they are attempting to arrest has their gun in their hand before resorting to justifiable deadly force.

And again, Finicum was in the process of committing suicide by cop, which is why he forced police to shoot him by making a "reaching" motion rather than keeping his hands high in the air. He said himself he would rather be killed than go to jail.

And lastly, you'll notice they arrested many others during that stop, all of whom kept their hands up and none of whom were killed.


----------



## jc456

Vandalshandle said:


> I am deeply concerned about what a bunch of fat assed old men wearing cowboy hats up in Oregon think about using federal land for free. It is enough to fill me with patriotism and pride. Unfortunately, I have had very little experience crying myself to sleep every night was a victim, so I don't think that I would fit in to their little gang of yahoos.......


Thanks for your continued profiling, hypocrite!


----------



## jc456

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> They did use a spike strip. Finicum went around it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bulllshit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
Click to expand...

That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> bulllshit
> 
> 
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
Click to expand...

Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
Click to expand...

Funny says the fk with no evidence


----------



## teddyearp

jon_berzerk said:


> first off it was not a plane it was a drone



I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.


----------



## jon_berzerk

teddyearp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
Click to expand...



exactly

did you notice the wrong date stamp in the upper left hand corner


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> why would they be shooting them with
> 
> oxycontin
> 
> face it you do not know what the fuck you are talking about
> 
> 
> 
> Your delusions worsen.
> 
> I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh
> 
> well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see a spike strip which may blend in with the asphalt on a grainy video shot from a plane. That doesn't mean one wasn't deployed. The FBI says one was used and you can't prove they were lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> which is it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says the video was shot from a plane. Who knows why you think I would talk your word over theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> did you happen to notice the wrong date in the corner by chance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not the wrong date.
> 
> Pilots fly using Zulu time, which is 8 hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time.
> 
> Yet another example where you brain-dead conspiracists imagine your delusions are reality.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> you cant see the spike because it is not there
> 
> it certainly isnt where you claimed it would be
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, that's it's not visible in a grainy video following a car in motion from a plane doesn't mean it's not there. Again, if the strip is black, and some are, I can believe it's not easily seen from that height as it would blend in with the asphalt.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> equally odd the several cops following him
> 
> also "missed" the spike strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not odd at all since they ALL stopped short of the roadblock. That could very well be why they didn't pull all the way up when they approached. Or it could be that someone pulled up the spike strip immediately after Finicum passed it.  Neither one of us knows. What we do know is the FBI says a spike strip was employed.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> the video proves they are either lying about the spike
> 
> or
> 
> lying that the video was unedited
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video proves you're deranged.
> 
> And again, if the video was edited -- *prove it.*
Click to expand...

*
The FBI says the video was shot from a plane.
*
when did they say that 

*Not odd at all since they ALL stopped short of the roadblock*

dude you are making yourself look like a bigger idiot 

with each nonsense statement like that 

since you brought up the roadblock again 

who gave them permission to use deadly force 

and more importantly why 

that is a deadly force roadblock

oh in the "stock photo"  that you posted of a roadblock 

did you happen to notice the major no no in that set up 

other then they are too close to the strip  


*What we do know is the FBI says a spike strip was employed.*

not according to the video


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> _As the white truck approaches the roadblock, *there is a spike strip across the road* but it appears Finicum missed it as he attempted to drive around the roadblock. He nearly hits an FBI agent as he maneuvers to the left. The truck gets stuck in the snowbank._
> 
> more...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
Click to expand...


did you ever see a gun dick breath


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny says the fk with no evidence
Click to expand...



what is really funny about this loser is 

now the cops are trustworthy in what they say


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
Click to expand...

The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> *And you are a Goddamned liar*.<snip>
> 
> The costs will of fighting wildland fires will continue to increase *until we invest more in preventative measures*. Photo credit: USFS, “The Rising Cost of Wildfire Operations.”



You calling me a liar?  Them's some strong word there, pilgrim.  Let's step outside and settle this then . . . .  That's how it used to be done.

I saved the last sentence of your post as it proves my point.  All of my adult life I have lived and moved to smaller and smaller towns, all of them very close to BLM/USFS land.  Instead of 'visiting' the 'woods' for two to four weeks a year, I have gone there almost every weekend for the last 35-40 years.  I have seen how the logging industry has been hamstrung by the environmentalists. The logging industry is one of the best preventive measures there is for large forest fires.  But the Nature Conservacy and others fight tooth and nail to stop any logging or even just plain cleanup of the woods.

In 2002 Show Low Arizona, it culminated in the Rodeo-chediski fire.  Burned almost 500,000 acres.  Because the spotted owl was the siren's song to prevent any logging, treatment, or thinning of the forest.

In 1985 Lake Elsinore and surrounding areas, it was the environmentalists siren song of the Kangaroo Rat that put all development and off road use to a stand still. Closed roads.  Roads that would have been useful to fight the fires that later came.

No, I am not a liar, you are just ignorant.  Proved by the fact you only spend about four weeks total in the woods, the rest of the time in the big city, Portland.


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>Had it not been a workday, <snip>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last time I checked most folks have Saturday and Sundays off.  At least those who are more prominent in the community. . . .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The subject was the protests in Burns on Monday. Pay attention, old man.
Click to expand...

Oops, you did get me there.  I made a mistake. Will you ever be man enough to admit as much in anything you may post?


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny says the fk with no evidence
Click to expand...

The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> exactly
> 
> did you notice the wrong date stamp in the upper left hand corner
Click to expand...

Again.... pilots use Zulu time when flying. The timestamp on the video is completely consistant with that.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
Click to expand...



hey idiot a drone certainly is a "plane"


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny says the fk with no evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.
Click to expand...


a cop said mike brown attacked a cop thats evidence


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> exactly
> 
> did you notice the wrong date stamp in the upper left hand corner
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again.... pilots use Zulu time when flying. The timestamp on the video is completely consistant with that.
Click to expand...

pilots do that are you fucking nutz 

i have been a pilot for over 20 years 

you really are an idiot 

--LOL@U


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your delusions worsen.
> 
> I never said they were shot with "oxycontin."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh
> 
> well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't see a spike strip which may blend in with the asphalt on a grainy video shot from a plane. That doesn't mean one wasn't deployed. The FBI says one was used and you can't prove they were lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> which is it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says the video was shot from a plane. Who knows why you think I would talk your word over theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> did you happen to notice the wrong date in the corner by chance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not the wrong date.
> 
> Pilots fly using Zulu time, which is 8 hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time.
> 
> Yet another example where you brain-dead conspiracists imagine your delusions are reality.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> you cant see the spike because it is not there
> 
> it certainly isnt where you claimed it would be
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, that's it's not visible in a grainy video following a car in motion from a plane doesn't mean it's not there. Again, if the strip is black, and some are, I can believe it's not easily seen from that height as it would blend in with the asphalt.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> equally odd the several cops following him
> 
> also "missed" the spike strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not odd at all since they ALL stopped short of the roadblock. That could very well be why they didn't pull all the way up when they approached. Or it could be that someone pulled up the spike strip immediately after Finicum passed it.  Neither one of us knows. What we do know is the FBI says a spike strip was employed.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> the video proves they are either lying about the spike
> 
> or
> 
> lying that the video was unedited
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video proves you're deranged.
> 
> And again, if the video was edited -- *prove it.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> The FBI says the video was shot from a plane.
> *
> when did they say that
> 
> *Not odd at all since they ALL stopped short of the roadblock*
> 
> dude you are making yourself look like a bigger idiot
> 
> with each nonsense statement like that
> 
> since you brought up the roadblock again
> 
> who gave them permission to use deadly force
> 
> and more importantly why
> 
> that is a deadly force roadblock
> 
> oh in the "stock photo"  that you posted of a roadblock
> 
> did you happen to notice the major no no in that set up
> 
> other then they are too close to the strip
> 
> 
> *What we do know is the FBI says a spike strip was employed.*
> 
> not according to the video
Click to expand...

They said that in their public statement. 

As far as the pursuing agents. Again, they stopped short of the roadblock. That very well could be because the spike strip was still on the ground. Your delusions are getting the best of you -- like your insisting the timestamp on the video is wro g a d evidence of nefarious behaviour on the part of law enforcement; when in reality, there is a simple explanation for it.


----------



## teddyearp

jon_berzerk said:


> did you notice the wrong date stamp in the upper left hand corner



No, I figured since it won't matter to anyone anyway, just like the date stamp in the video of the guy they arrested in Hines.  The date stamps do not seem to matter to the .gov, but let us provide any evidence with an incorrect date stamp and see how fast that shit gets tossed out of court.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh
> 
> well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see a spike strip which may blend in with the asphalt on a grainy video shot from a plane. That doesn't mean one wasn't deployed. The FBI says one was used and you can't prove they were lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> which is it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says the video was shot from a plane. Who knows why you think I would talk your word over theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> did you happen to notice the wrong date in the corner by chance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not the wrong date.
> 
> Pilots fly using Zulu time, which is 8 hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time.
> 
> Yet another example where you brain-dead conspiracists imagine your delusions are reality.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> you cant see the spike because it is not there
> 
> it certainly isnt where you claimed it would be
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, that's it's not visible in a grainy video following a car in motion from a plane doesn't mean it's not there. Again, if the strip is black, and some are, I can believe it's not easily seen from that height as it would blend in with the asphalt.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> equally odd the several cops following him
> 
> also "missed" the spike strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not odd at all since they ALL stopped short of the roadblock. That could very well be why they didn't pull all the way up when they approached. Or it could be that someone pulled up the spike strip immediately after Finicum passed it.  Neither one of us knows. What we do know is the FBI says a spike strip was employed.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> the video proves they are either lying about the spike
> 
> or
> 
> lying that the video was unedited
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video proves you're deranged.
> 
> And again, if the video was edited -- *prove it.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> The FBI says the video was shot from a plane.
> *
> when did they say that
> 
> *Not odd at all since they ALL stopped short of the roadblock*
> 
> dude you are making yourself look like a bigger idiot
> 
> with each nonsense statement like that
> 
> since you brought up the roadblock again
> 
> who gave them permission to use deadly force
> 
> and more importantly why
> 
> that is a deadly force roadblock
> 
> oh in the "stock photo"  that you posted of a roadblock
> 
> did you happen to notice the major no no in that set up
> 
> other then they are too close to the strip
> 
> 
> *What we do know is the FBI says a spike strip was employed.*
> 
> not according to the video
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They said that in their public statement.
> 
> As far as the pursuing agents. Again, they stopped short of the roadblock. That very well could be because the spike strip was still on the ground. Your delusions are getting the best of you -- like your insisting the timestamp on the video is wro g a d evidence of nefarious behaviour on the part of law enforcement; when in reality, there is a simple explanation for it.
Click to expand...



hey stupid a drone is a plane 

one that is remotely flown 

dumbass


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> so you can not still find the spike deployment on the road huh
> 
> well anyway what you claimed is not what happened in the frame
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see a spike strip which may blend in with the asphalt on a grainy video shot from a plane. That doesn't mean one wasn't deployed. The FBI says one was used and you can't prove they were lying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> which is it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says the video was shot from a plane. Who knows why you think I would talk your word over theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> did you happen to notice the wrong date in the corner by chance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not the wrong date.
> 
> Pilots fly using Zulu time, which is 8 hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time.
> 
> Yet another example where you brain-dead conspiracists imagine your delusions are reality.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> you cant see the spike because it is not there
> 
> it certainly isnt where you claimed it would be
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, that's it's not visible in a grainy video following a car in motion from a plane doesn't mean it's not there. Again, if the strip is black, and some are, I can believe it's not easily seen from that height as it would blend in with the asphalt.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> equally odd the several cops following him
> 
> also "missed" the spike strip
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not odd at all since they ALL stopped short of the roadblock. That could very well be why they didn't pull all the way up when they approached. Or it could be that someone pulled up the spike strip immediately after Finicum passed it.  Neither one of us knows. What we do know is the FBI says a spike strip was employed.
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> the video proves they are either lying about the spike
> 
> or
> 
> lying that the video was unedited
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video proves you're deranged.
> 
> And again, if the video was edited -- *prove it.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> The FBI says the video was shot from a plane.
> *
> when did they say that
> 
> *Not odd at all since they ALL stopped short of the roadblock*
> 
> dude you are making yourself look like a bigger idiot
> 
> with each nonsense statement like that
> 
> since you brought up the roadblock again
> 
> who gave them permission to use deadly force
> 
> and more importantly why
> 
> that is a deadly force roadblock
> 
> oh in the "stock photo"  that you posted of a roadblock
> 
> did you happen to notice the major no no in that set up
> 
> other then they are too close to the strip
> 
> 
> *What we do know is the FBI says a spike strip was employed.*
> 
> not according to the video
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They said that in their public statement.
> 
> As far as the pursuing agents. Again, they stopped short of the roadblock. That very well could be because the spike strip was still on the ground. Your delusions are getting the best of you -- like your insisting the timestamp on the video is wro g a d evidence of nefarious behaviour on the part of law enforcement; when in reality, there is a simple explanation for it.
Click to expand...


who gave the use of deadly force permission 

allowing such a roadblock


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
Click to expand...


So since the FBI says it was a plane, you lap it up as truth.  Yes it was flying in circles, but please tell me, how can a plane fly so slow of circles.  Last I checked unless it is an ultralight or a drone, most small airplanes have to flay at the least 60+ mph to stay airborne.


----------



## jon_berzerk

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So since the FBI says it was a plane, you lap it up as truth.  Yes it was flying in circles, but please tell me, how can a plane fly so slow of circles.  Last I checked unless it is an ultralight or a drone, most small airplanes have to flay at the least 60+ mph to stay airborne.
Click to expand...



not to faun --LOL


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.



Save this post of yours.  It will help keep you disqualified from any jury duty.  Ever.


----------



## teddyearp

jon_berzerk said:


> not to faun --LOL



Got to admit, the ignorance that faun posts is entertaining at times . . . .


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> 
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny says the fk with no evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a cop said mike brown attacked a cop thats evidence
Click to expand...

Yes it is. Glad we're in agreement that cops' description at a crime scene is evidence.


----------



## jon_berzerk

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save this post of yours.  It will help keep you disqualified from any jury duty.  Ever.
Click to expand...



the reports say he was reaching for a inside pocket by his waist which contained a 9mm

too bad the inside of his pocket is up by his chest not waist


----------



## jon_berzerk

teddyearp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> not to faun --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got to admit, the ignorance that faun posts is entertaining at times . . . .
Click to expand...



that it is --LOL


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have watched that video on several screens including my 70 flat screen
> 
> and there is no spike strips
> 
> so either you are lying or you have not watched the video
> 
> so in what frames do you see the spike strip at what minutes and seconds
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> did you ever see a gun dick breath
Click to expand...

Didn't have to. I saw Finicum make a motion as though he was reaching for one. Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... given another passenger in the car said some of them were carrying sidearms... ...given Finicum said he wouldn't be taken alive... given the police and FBI said they found a gun on him -- only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.

Capiche?


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> 
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny says the fk with no evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a cop said mike brown attacked a cop thats evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is. Glad we're in agreement that cops' description at a crime scene is evidence.
Click to expand...

--LOL

if you say so


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save this post of yours.  It will help keep you disqualified from any jury duty.  Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the reports say he was reaching for a inside pocket by his waist which contained a 9mm
> 
> too bad the inside of his pocket is up by his chest not waist
Click to expand...

Oh? What brand of jacket was he wearing?


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> did you ever see a gun dick breath
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Didn't have to. I saw Finicum make a motion as though he was reaching for one. Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... given another passenger in the car said some of them were carrying sidearms... ...given Finicum said he wouldn't be taken alive... given the police and FBI said they found a gun on him -- only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> Capiche?
Click to expand...


witnesses say he was shot while his hands had been up 

where he was reaching is not where his inside pocket is located


----------



## teddyearp

So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:



> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.



Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut

I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?

And then there's this, Feb 6:



> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”



and:



> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.



Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock

So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?

Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Save this post of yours.  It will help keep you disqualified from any jury duty.  Ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the reports say he was reaching for a inside pocket by his waist which contained a 9mm
> 
> too bad the inside of his pocket is up by his chest not waist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh? What brand of jacket was he wearing?
Click to expand...


hey stupid you can see the top of his inside pocket in several photos


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny says the fk with no evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a cop said mike brown attacked a cop thats evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is. Glad we're in agreement that cops' description at a crime scene is evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --LOL
> 
> if you say so
Click to expand...

Well I said so and then you said so. How is that not being in agreement? Or do you think cops' description of crime scenes are only evidence in cases you support?


----------



## jon_berzerk

teddyearp said:


> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
Click to expand...



what they had been doing certainly did not warrant use of deadly forces order


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny says the fk with no evidence
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> a cop said mike brown attacked a cop thats evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is. Glad we're in agreement that cops' description at a crime scene is evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --LOL
> 
> if you say so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I said so and then you said so. How is that not being in agreement? Or do you think cops' description of crime scenes are only evidence in cases you support?
Click to expand...



the cop did not see the gun at the time of the shooting


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... ,snip.



Just playing the advocate, but all the videos showed Finnicum carrying a handgun on his right hip.  Open carried, not concealed in a jacket pocket.


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.


But you are acting the idiot only believing the slop the .gov has fed you over you actually thinking and looking for yourself.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest you file a complaint with the FBI since they were there and they said Finicum missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny says the fk with no evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> what is really funny about this loser is
> 
> now the cops are trustworthy in what they say
Click to expand...

When did I say they weren't? You really enjoy speaking from a position of ignorance, don'tcha?


----------



## jon_berzerk

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... ,snip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just playing the advocate, but all the videos showed Finnicum carrying a handgun on his right hip.  Open carried, not concealed in a jacket pocket.
Click to expand...


he could have had a second "hidden" pistol in his  left inside pocket 

but he would not have went to retrieve it by placing his hand by his waist 

the mouth of an inside pocket is much higher


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> 
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny says the fk with no evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> what is really funny about this loser is
> 
> now the cops are trustworthy in what they say
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I say they weren't? You really enjoy speaking from a position of ignorance, don'tcha?
Click to expand...


you have no room to talk


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> exactly
> 
> did you notice the wrong date stamp in the upper left hand corner
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again.... pilots use Zulu time when flying. The timestamp on the video is completely consistant with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pilots do that are you fucking nutz
> 
> i have been a pilot for over 20 years
> 
> you really are an idiot
> 
> --LOL@U
Click to expand...

Do you really think more evidence was needed that you have no fucking what you're bitching about?

*Aviation Time *

Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is international time, the basis of the world time clock. It helps eliminate confusion across multiple time zones. It is also known as UTC (Coordinated Universal Time). Aviators commonly refer to it as Zulu time.​
It must baffle you how the timestamp on that video was exactly 8 hours ahead of PST -- in Zulu time.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> exactly
> 
> did you notice the wrong date stamp in the upper left hand corner
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again.... pilots use Zulu time when flying. The timestamp on the video is completely consistant with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pilots do that are you fucking nutz
> 
> i have been a pilot for over 20 years
> 
> you really are an idiot
> 
> --LOL@U
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you really think more evidence was needed that you have no fucking what you're bitching about?
> 
> *Aviation Time *
> 
> Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is international time, the basis of the world time clock. It helps eliminate confusion across multiple time zones. It is also known as UTC (Coordinated Universal Time). Aviators commonly refer to it as Zulu time.​
> It must baffle you how the timestamp on that video was exactly 8 hours ahead of PST -- in Zulu time.
Click to expand...



dude except this was a local flight 

not international and not even crossing time zones 

you idiot 

but keep trying 

--LOL


----------



## jon_berzerk

his left inside pocket opening nipple high 

not waist high


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... ,snip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just playing the advocate, but all the videos showed Finnicum carrying a handgun on his right hip.  Open carried, not concealed in a jacket pocket.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he could have had a second "hidden" pistol in his  left inside pocket
> 
> but he would not have went to retrieve it by placing his hand by his waist
> 
> the mouth of an inside pocket is much higher
Click to expand...

"Waist" is your word. The FBI said.. 



> _Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow. Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket._


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... ,snip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just playing the advocate, but all the videos showed Finnicum carrying a handgun on his right hip.  Open carried, not concealed in a jacket pocket.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he could have had a second "hidden" pistol in his  left inside pocket
> 
> but he would not have went to retrieve it by placing his hand by his waist
> 
> the mouth of an inside pocket is much higher
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Waist" is your word. The FBI said..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow. Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket._
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



look at the video you fucking moron


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> exactly
> 
> did you notice the wrong date stamp in the upper left hand corner
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again.... pilots use Zulu time when flying. The timestamp on the video is completely consistant with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pilots do that are you fucking nutz
> 
> i have been a pilot for over 20 years
> 
> you really are an idiot
> 
> --LOL@U
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you really think more evidence was needed that you have no fucking what you're bitching about?
> 
> *Aviation Time *
> 
> Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is international time, the basis of the world time clock. It helps eliminate confusion across multiple time zones. It is also known as UTC (Coordinated Universal Time). Aviators commonly refer to it as Zulu time.​
> It must baffle you how the timestamp on that video was exactly 8 hours ahead of PST -- in Zulu time.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> dude except this was a local flight
> 
> not international and not even crossing time zones
> 
> you idiot
> 
> but keep trying
> 
> --LOL
Click to expand...

You didn't even know it was a plane. You don't know who the pilot was. And the time is perfectly in synch with Zulu time. Not to mention, the FBI confirmed it was recorded using Zulu time.

Like JC, You're a fucking retard.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> exactly
> 
> did you notice the wrong date stamp in the upper left hand corner
> 
> 
> 
> Again.... pilots use Zulu time when flying. The timestamp on the video is completely consistant with that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> pilots do that are you fucking nutz
> 
> i have been a pilot for over 20 years
> 
> you really are an idiot
> 
> --LOL@U
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you really think more evidence was needed that you have no fucking what you're bitching about?
> 
> *Aviation Time *
> 
> Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is international time, the basis of the world time clock. It helps eliminate confusion across multiple time zones. It is also known as UTC (Coordinated Universal Time). Aviators commonly refer to it as Zulu time.​
> It must baffle you how the timestamp on that video was exactly 8 hours ahead of PST -- in Zulu time.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> dude except this was a local flight
> 
> not international and not even crossing time zones
> 
> you idiot
> 
> but keep trying
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't even know it was a plane. You don't know who the pilot was. And the time is perfectly in synch with Zulu time. Not to mention, the FBI confirmed it was recorded using Zulu time.
> 
> Like JC, You're a fucking retard.
Click to expand...



hey dip shit 

drones are planes 

they even have pilots


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... ,snip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just playing the advocate, but all the videos showed Finnicum carrying a handgun on his right hip.  Open carried, not concealed in a jacket pocket.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he could have had a second "hidden" pistol in his  left inside pocket
> 
> but he would not have went to retrieve it by placing his hand by his waist
> 
> the mouth of an inside pocket is much higher
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Waist" is your word. The FBI said..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow. Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> look at the video you fucking moron
Click to expand...

The video doesn't reveal where in his jacket he was reaching. It's far too blurry to discern. And of course, the one making that claim is you, not the folks who were actually there.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again.... pilots use Zulu time when flying. The timestamp on the video is completely consistant with that.
> 
> 
> 
> pilots do that are you fucking nutz
> 
> i have been a pilot for over 20 years
> 
> you really are an idiot
> 
> --LOL@U
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you really think more evidence was needed that you have no fucking what you're bitching about?
> 
> *Aviation Time *
> 
> Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is international time, the basis of the world time clock. It helps eliminate confusion across multiple time zones. It is also known as UTC (Coordinated Universal Time). Aviators commonly refer to it as Zulu time.​
> It must baffle you how the timestamp on that video was exactly 8 hours ahead of PST -- in Zulu time.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> dude except this was a local flight
> 
> not international and not even crossing time zones
> 
> you idiot
> 
> but keep trying
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't even know it was a plane. You don't know who the pilot was. And the time is perfectly in synch with Zulu time. Not to mention, the FBI confirmed it was recorded using Zulu time.
> 
> Like JC, You're a fucking retard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey dip shit
> 
> drones are planes
> 
> they even have pilots
Click to expand...

Quote the FBI or the Oregon state police saying it was a drone.....


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... ,snip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just playing the advocate, but all the videos showed Finnicum carrying a handgun on his right hip.  Open carried, not concealed in a jacket pocket.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he could have had a second "hidden" pistol in his  left inside pocket
> 
> but he would not have went to retrieve it by placing his hand by his waist
> 
> the mouth of an inside pocket is much higher
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Waist" is your word. The FBI said..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow. Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> look at the video you fucking moron
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video doesn't reveal where in his jacket he was reaching. It's far too blurry to discern. And of course, the one making that claim is you, not the folks who were actually there.
Click to expand...



blurry to you everyone else seen him reaching towards his belly


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> pilots do that are you fucking nutz
> 
> i have been a pilot for over 20 years
> 
> you really are an idiot
> 
> --LOL@U
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really think more evidence was needed that you have no fucking what you're bitching about?
> 
> *Aviation Time *
> 
> Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is international time, the basis of the world time clock. It helps eliminate confusion across multiple time zones. It is also known as UTC (Coordinated Universal Time). Aviators commonly refer to it as Zulu time.​
> It must baffle you how the timestamp on that video was exactly 8 hours ahead of PST -- in Zulu time.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> dude except this was a local flight
> 
> not international and not even crossing time zones
> 
> you idiot
> 
> but keep trying
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't even know it was a plane. You don't know who the pilot was. And the time is perfectly in synch with Zulu time. Not to mention, the FBI confirmed it was recorded using Zulu time.
> 
> Like JC, You're a fucking retard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey dip shit
> 
> drones are planes
> 
> they even have pilots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote the FBI or the Oregon state police saying it was a drone.....
Click to expand...


they dont have to 

a drone is a plane 

are you saying it isnt a plane


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> 
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny says the fk with no evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> what is really funny about this loser is
> 
> now the cops are trustworthy in what they say
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I say they weren't? You really enjoy speaking from a position of ignorance, don'tcha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you have no room to talk
Click to expand...

How sad the best you can do is the pre-K equivalent of _I know you are but what am I? _

... revealing.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just playing the advocate, but all the videos showed Finnicum carrying a handgun on his right hip.  Open carried, not concealed in a jacket pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he could have had a second "hidden" pistol in his  left inside pocket
> 
> but he would not have went to retrieve it by placing his hand by his waist
> 
> the mouth of an inside pocket is much higher
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Waist" is your word. The FBI said..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Finicum leaves the truck and steps through the snow. Agents and troopers on scene had information that Finicum and others would be armed. On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9 mm semi-automatic handgun in that pocket._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> look at the video you fucking moron
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The video doesn't reveal where in his jacket he was reaching. It's far too blurry to discern. And of course, the one making that claim is you, not the folks who were actually there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> blurry to you everyone else seen him reaching towards his belly
Click to expand...

Everyone (according to you) but the folks there that day.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> couldnt find on the video huh
> 
> that is because there was not one
> 
> it would have been completely stupid
> 
> for the cops to place one where you had "suggested" it was
> 
> 
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> did you ever see a gun dick breath
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Didn't have to. I saw Finicum make a motion as though he was reaching for one. Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... given another passenger in the car said some of them were carrying sidearms... ...given Finicum said he wouldn't be taken alive... given the police and FBI said they found a gun on him -- only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> Capiche?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> witnesses say he was shot while his hands had been up
> 
> where he was reaching is not where his inside pocket is located
Click to expand...

There was one eye witness who said that. Not witnesses. There were multiple witnesses who said he was shot when he lowered his hands in a reaching movement.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> what they had been doing certainly did not warrant use of deadly forces order
Click to expand...

Bullshit. 

You resist arrest, ignore police orders to get out of your car, then take off take off fleeing from police, then make a motion like you're reaching for a weapon. Police have every right and every justification to resort to deadly force.

Nothing will come from this because it was completely justified and you will spend the rest of your life bitching and moaning how this was such an injustice.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says he had a loaded 9mm. That's evidence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a cop said mike brown attacked a cop thats evidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes it is. Glad we're in agreement that cops' description at a crime scene is evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --LOL
> 
> if you say so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I said so and then you said so. How is that not being in agreement? Or do you think cops' description of crime scenes are only evidence in cases you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the cop did not see the gun at the time of the shooting
Click to expand...

Back to reality. The police have not said if they saw the gun or not when they shot him. It's a moot point anyway since seeing the gun wasn't needed to justify deadly force. A reasonable belief he was reaching for a weapon when he dropped his hand was sufficient.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... ,snip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just playing the advocate, but all the videos showed Finnicum carrying a handgun on his right hip.  Open carried, not concealed in a jacket pocket.
Click to expand...

He was also seen in possession with at least one other firearm. The Colt 45 on his hip wasn't the only firearm he was seen with.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That would have caused the truck to hit the road block. That would have guaranteed more deaths! One either does a road block or spikes, not both. I never believe a liar. The video was to far out so no way could the fkr see it. I merely laughed at the lie
> 
> 
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> did you ever see a gun dick breath
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Didn't have to. I saw Finicum make a motion as though he was reaching for one. Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... given another passenger in the car said some of them were carrying sidearms... ...given Finicum said he wouldn't be taken alive... given the police and FBI said they found a gun on him -- only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> Capiche?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> witnesses say he was shot while his hands had been up
> 
> where he was reaching is not where his inside pocket is located
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was one eye witness who said that. Not witnesses. There were multiple witnesses who said he was shot when he lowered his hands in a reaching movement.
Click to expand...


yes and the fbi added he was reaching for a gun that they did not see 

it is obvious he was going for his waistline 

not where the pocket opening is 

the report by  Deshutes Major incident team will be interesting 

when we get to hear the audio and radio traffic 

dash cams and the vehicle


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> a cop said mike brown attacked a cop thats evidence
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is. Glad we're in agreement that cops' description at a crime scene is evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> --LOL
> 
> if you say so
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well I said so and then you said so. How is that not being in agreement? Or do you think cops' description of crime scenes are only evidence in cases you support?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the cop did not see the gun at the time of the shooting
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Back to reality. The police have not said if they saw the gun or not when they shot him. It's a moot point anyway since seeing the gun wasn't needed to justify deadly force. A reasonable belief he was reaching for a weapon when he dropped his hand was sufficient.
Click to expand...



they already had been set up in a deadly force situation 

who gave that order and why


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> 
> 
> But you are acting the idiot only believing the slop the .gov has fed you over you actually thinking and looking for yourself.
Click to expand...

Not at all. The video shows the time is in Zulu time. My own eyes confirm what the police have said. The video shows he lowered his hand in a "reaching' movement. My own eyes confirm what the police have said. I watched another video of one of the other occupants state the others had sidearms. My own ears confirmed what the police said. I'll give you the spike strip, though. I don't see that in the video but I see no reason the police would lie about that.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you ever see a gun dick breath
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Didn't have to. I saw Finicum make a motion as though he was reaching for one. Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... given another passenger in the car said some of them were carrying sidearms... ...given Finicum said he wouldn't be taken alive... given the police and FBI said they found a gun on him -- only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> Capiche?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> witnesses say he was shot while his hands had been up
> 
> where he was reaching is not where his inside pocket is located
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was one eye witness who said that. Not witnesses. There were multiple witnesses who said he was shot when he lowered his hands in a reaching movement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes and the fbi added he was reaching for a gun that they did not see
> 
> it is obvious he was going for his waistline
> 
> not where the pocket opening is
> 
> the report by  Deshutes Major incident team will be interesting
> 
> when we get to hear the audio and radio traffic
> 
> dash cams and the vehicle
Click to expand...

Post the report where you read he was reaching for his waisteline.... let me in on the joke.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really think more evidence was needed that you have no fucking what you're bitching about?
> 
> *Aviation Time *
> 
> Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is international time, the basis of the world time clock. It helps eliminate confusion across multiple time zones. It is also known as UTC (Coordinated Universal Time). Aviators commonly refer to it as Zulu time.​
> It must baffle you how the timestamp on that video was exactly 8 hours ahead of PST -- in Zulu time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dude except this was a local flight
> 
> not international and not even crossing time zones
> 
> you idiot
> 
> but keep trying
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't even know it was a plane. You don't know who the pilot was. And the time is perfectly in synch with Zulu time. Not to mention, the FBI confirmed it was recorded using Zulu time.
> 
> Like JC, You're a fucking retard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> hey dip shit
> 
> drones are planes
> 
> they even have pilots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote the FBI or the Oregon state police saying it was a drone.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> they dont have to
> 
> a drone is a plane
> 
> are you saying it isnt a plane
Click to expand...

Translation: you can't.

I figured.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wishes the fucking retard who thinks Finicum wasn't armed because you can't see a gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> did you ever see a gun dick breath
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Didn't have to. I saw Finicum make a motion as though he was reaching for one. Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... given another passenger in the car said some of them were carrying sidearms... ...given Finicum said he wouldn't be taken alive... given the police and FBI said they found a gun on him -- only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> Capiche?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> witnesses say he was shot while his hands had been up
> 
> where he was reaching is not where his inside pocket is located
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was one eye witness who said that. Not witnesses. There were multiple witnesses who said he was shot when he lowered his hands in a reaching movement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes and the fbi added he was reaching for a gun that they did not see
> 
> it is obvious he was going for his waistline
> 
> not where the pocket opening is
> 
> the report by  Deshutes Major incident team will be interesting
> 
> when we get to hear the audio and radio traffic
> 
> dash cams and the vehicle
Click to expand...

If you're lucky, maybe you'll get to see Shawna Cox's video.


----------



## Old Rocks

teddyearp said:


> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
Click to expand...

They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
Click to expand...

Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

One Man's Personal Story of the Oregon Wildlife Refuge Taken Over by the Armed Occupiers


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> 
> 
> But you are acting the idiot only believing the slop the .gov has fed you over you actually thinking and looking for yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. The video shows the time is in Zulu time. My own eyes confirm what the police have said. The video shows he lowered his hand in a "reaching' movement. My own eyes confirm what the police have said. I watched another video of one of the other occupants state the others had sidearms. My own ears confirmed what the police said. I'll give you the spike strip, though. I don't see that in the video but I see no reason the police would lie about that.
Click to expand...

Nope, sorry friend no way


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
Click to expand...

The plane doesn't hover.

Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> 
> 
> But you are acting the idiot only believing the slop the .gov has fed you over you actually thinking and looking for yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. The video shows the time is in Zulu time. My own eyes confirm what the police have said. The video shows he lowered his hand in a "reaching' movement. My own eyes confirm what the police have said. I watched another video of one of the other occupants state the others had sidearms. My own ears confirmed what the police said. I'll give you the spike strip, though. I don't see that in the video but I see no reason the police would lie about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, sorry friend no way
Click to expand...

Good for you. You go on banging your head against the wall and see how far that gets ya.


----------



## Andylusion

Old Rocks said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.
Click to expand...


Sounds like OWS.

If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
Click to expand...

Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> 
> 
> But you are acting the idiot only believing the slop the .gov has fed you over you actually thinking and looking for yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. The video shows the time is in Zulu time. My own eyes confirm what the police have said. The video shows he lowered his hand in a "reaching' movement. My own eyes confirm what the police have said. I watched another video of one of the other occupants state the others had sidearms. My own ears confirmed what the police said. I'll give you the spike strip, though. I don't see that in the video but I see no reason the police would lie about that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, sorry friend no way
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good for you. You go on banging your head against the wall and see how far that gets ya.
Click to expand...

Damn right, we'll see won't we. Hahahaha


----------



## Faun

Andylusion said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
Click to expand...

Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
Click to expand...

You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.


----------



## Old Rocks

Well, you hit it on the head. jc is a retard. Makes the as stupid of arguements as Silly Billy. 

Here is the whole thing. You attempt to run from the law, when you have made previous statements about not being taken alive, and brag about always being armed, you drop your hands, you are dead. Finicum and the rest were actively engaged in a felony in an armed occupation of federal property. He was fair game to be arrested and charged no matter where he was at, or what time of day it was. The dumb asses thought that they were untouchable, and over played their hand. Now they will get to occupy federal property for many years.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> 
> 
> But you are acting the idiot only believing the slop the .gov has fed you over you actually thinking and looking for yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not at all. The video shows the time is in Zulu time. My own eyes confirm what the police have said. The video shows he lowered his hand in a "reaching' movement. My own eyes confirm what the police have said. I watched another video of one of the other occupants state the others had sidearms. My own ears confirmed what the police said. I'll give you the spike strip, though. I don't see that in the video but I see no reason the police would lie about that.
Click to expand...



indeed zulu time fits in well with a drone aircraft not a local pilot 

actually the fbi said "aircraft"


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
Click to expand...


unlike a on board pilot would be able to fly the plane 

and stay trained on the subject


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> did you ever see a gun dick breath
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't have to. I saw Finicum make a motion as though he was reaching for one. Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... given another passenger in the car said some of them were carrying sidearms... ...given Finicum said he wouldn't be taken alive... given the police and FBI said they found a gun on him -- only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> Capiche?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> witnesses say he was shot while his hands had been up
> 
> where he was reaching is not where his inside pocket is located
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was one eye witness who said that. Not witnesses. There were multiple witnesses who said he was shot when he lowered his hands in a reaching movement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes and the fbi added he was reaching for a gun that they did not see
> 
> it is obvious he was going for his waistline
> 
> not where the pocket opening is
> 
> the report by  Deshutes Major incident team will be interesting
> 
> when we get to hear the audio and radio traffic
> 
> dash cams and the vehicle
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the report where you read he was reaching for his waisteline.... let me in on the joke.
Click to expand...


so now the video is too grainy to see that as well


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> did you ever see a gun dick breath
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't have to. I saw Finicum make a motion as though he was reaching for one. Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... given another passenger in the car said some of them were carrying sidearms... ...given Finicum said he wouldn't be taken alive... given the police and FBI said they found a gun on him -- only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> Capiche?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> witnesses say he was shot while his hands had been up
> 
> where he was reaching is not where his inside pocket is located
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was one eye witness who said that. Not witnesses. There were multiple witnesses who said he was shot when he lowered his hands in a reaching movement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes and the fbi added he was reaching for a gun that they did not see
> 
> it is obvious he was going for his waistline
> 
> not where the pocket opening is
> 
> the report by  Deshutes Major incident team will be interesting
> 
> when we get to hear the audio and radio traffic
> 
> dash cams and the vehicle
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you're lucky, maybe you'll get to see Shawna Cox's video.
Click to expand...



there is a complete investigation going


----------



## August West

Andylusion said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
Click to expand...

They didn`t shoot anyone at ows but none of them were an escaping felony suspect. OWS was on the receiving end of beanbags and tear gas and I think that would have been a cool thing to do to those toothless rednecks in Ore. Barbequeing themselves like the Branch Davidians would have been a great show too.
Oakland police fire teargas at Occupy protest


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
Click to expand...

so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?


----------



## jon_berzerk

August West said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They didn`t shoot anyone at ows but none of them were an                              escaping felony suspect. OWS was on the receiving end of beanbags and tear gas and I think that would have been a cool thing to do to those toothless rednecks in Ore. Barbequeing themselves like the Branch Davidians would have been a great show too.
> Oakland police fire teargas at Occupy protest
Click to expand...


*none of them were an escaping felony suspect*

a felony suspect for trespassing really


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> Well, you hit it on the head. jc is a retard. Makes the as stupid of arguements as Silly Billy.
> 
> Here is the whole thing. You attempt to run from the law, when you have made previous statements about not being taken alive, and brag about always being armed, you drop your hands, you are dead. Finicum and the rest were actively engaged in a felony in an armed occupation of federal property. He was fair game to be arrested and charged no matter where he was at, or what time of day it was. The dumb asses thought that they were untouchable, and over played their hand. Now they will get to occupy federal property for many years.


who ran from the law?  They were in their truck going somewhere and the fbi engaged them.  They weren't running, now don't continue with your old style stupid.


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
Click to expand...


so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized 

that certainly does not appear to be lawful


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
Click to expand...

hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
Click to expand...


could have been a helicopter i suppose 

that to is an "aircraft" 

but a local craft probably would not have been in zulu time


----------



## jc456

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> and:
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
> 
> 
> 
> They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
Click to expand...

dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
Click to expand...


for trespassing 

the order to use deadly force needs to be made public 

it will be in time


----------



## Old Rocks

Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.


----------



## jc456

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
Click to expand...

well they were in their vehicles, how is that trespassing.  And how is that probable cause for shooting someone on a public road unarmed?


----------



## Old Rocks

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
Click to expand...

Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> 
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well they were in their vehicles, how is that trespassing.  And how is that probable cause for shooting someone on a public road unarmed?
Click to expand...



they had been trespassing


----------



## jon_berzerk

Old Rocks said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> 
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.
Click to expand...



which one had a felony 

post it fuckstick


----------



## Old Rocks

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
Click to expand...

Now jc, once again you are demonstrating how painfully ignorant you are. 

J3 Cub

Carrying a single pilot and no passenger, the L-4 had a top speed of *85 mph* (*137 km/h*), a cruise speed of *75 mph* (*121 km/h*), a service ceiling of 12,000 ft (3,658 m), a stall speed of*38 mph* (*61 km/h*), an endurance of three hours, and a range of 225 mi (362 km)

And that is one not altered for STOL..


----------



## Old Rocks

jon_berzerk said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> which one had a felony
> 
> post it fuckstick
Click to expand...

All, idiot. Armed occupation of a Federal Installation is actually several felonies. I hope they charge them on all, and make the sentences consecutive.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Old Rocks said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> 
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now jc, once again you are demonstrating how painfully ignorant you are.
> 
> J3 Cub
> 
> Carrying a single pilot and no passenger, the L-4 had a top speed of *85 mph* (*137 km/h*), a cruise speed of *75 mph* (*121 km/h*), a service ceiling of 12,000 ft (3,658 m), a stall speed of*38 mph* (*61 km/h*), an endurance of three hours, and a range of 225 mi (362 km)
> 
> And that is one not altered for STOL..
Click to expand...



unlikely but maybe the feds used a cub 


but the camera weight would be a limiting factor 


--LOL

maybe a 172 XP


----------



## Camp

Whatever happened to all those big Festus memorial rallies predicted for the weekend? The ones I found looked like duds. There just aren't very many people who care about the domestic terrorist getting shot for being a dumb-ass suicidal jerk.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Old Rocks said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> 
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> which one had a felony
> 
> post it fuckstick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All, idiot. Armed occupation of a Federal Installation is actually several felonies. I hope they charge them on all, and make the sentences consecutive.
Click to expand...


liar not one is a convicted felon 

so now the federal land is not public land afterall


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.


again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> 
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.
Click to expand...

they never said that.


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> 
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now jc, once again you are demonstrating how painfully ignorant you are.
> 
> J3 Cub
> 
> Carrying a single pilot and no passenger, the L-4 had a top speed of *85 mph* (*137 km/h*), a cruise speed of *75 mph* (*121 km/h*), a service ceiling of 12,000 ft (3,658 m), a stall speed of*38 mph* (*61 km/h*), an endurance of three hours, and a range of 225 mi (362 km)
> 
> And that is one not altered for STOL..
Click to expand...

can it hover?


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they never said that.
Click to expand...


he indeed is lying about that 

and there still needs to be an authorization to use deadly force 

they way the roadblock was established indicates the order was given


----------



## jc456

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well they were in their vehicles, how is that trespassing.  And how is that probable cause for shooting someone on a public road unarmed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> they had been trespassing
Click to expand...

but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now jc, once again you are demonstrating how painfully ignorant you are.
> 
> J3 Cub
> 
> Carrying a single pilot and no passenger, the L-4 had a top speed of *85 mph* (*137 km/h*), a cruise speed of *75 mph* (*121 km/h*), a service ceiling of 12,000 ft (3,658 m), a stall speed of*38 mph* (*61 km/h*), an endurance of three hours, and a range of 225 mi (362 km)
> 
> And that is one not altered for STOL..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can it hover?
Click to expand...


almost 

but an unlikely aircraft 

since it cant carry much of any weight 

and has a very limited range 150 miles or less 

j3 cubs work good for flying low slow to the ground 

checking power lines and such


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> 
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well they were in their vehicles, how is that trespassing.  And how is that probable cause for shooting someone on a public road unarmed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> they had been trespassing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.
Click to expand...


yes the did trespass though 

and they spend away from a police stop 

but that does not indicate the use of deadly force


----------



## jc456

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well they were in their vehicles, how is that trespassing.  And how is that probable cause for shooting someone on a public road unarmed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> they had been trespassing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
Click to expand...

how long did he sit in the street before he left?  It was a while.  And speed?  What's the limit there?  what did they say he was doing, 60 miles an hour? hmmmm, that ain't someone fleeing, that's someone driving.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> 
> 
> well they were in their vehicles, how is that trespassing.  And how is that probable cause for shooting someone on a public road unarmed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> they had been trespassing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how long did he sit in the street before he left?  It was a while.  And speed?  What's the limit there?  what did they say he was doing, 60 miles an hour? hmmmm, that ain't someone fleeing, that's someone driving.
Click to expand...

Was Slow Draw Festus a retard? Even a stupid ass knows that when the cops have you stopped with red and blue lights flashing you are supposed to sit still and await instructions. Maybe if he watched a few episodes of the TV show COPS that has been showed for twenty years several times a day every day of the week he would have known what to do when the Cops stop you.


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well they were in their vehicles, how is that trespassing.  And how is that probable cause for shooting someone on a public road unarmed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they had been trespassing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how long did he sit in the street before he left?  It was a while.  And speed?  What's the limit there?  what did they say he was doing, 60 miles an hour? hmmmm, that ain't someone fleeing, that's someone driving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Slow Draw Festus a retard? Even a stupid ass knows that when the cops have you stopped with red and blue lights flashing you are supposed to sit still and await instructions. Maybe if he watched a few episodes of the TV show COPS that has been showed for twenty years several times a day every day of the week he would have known what to do when the Cops stop you.
Click to expand...

so you're saying that when one is asked to obey the instructions from a cop it's ok to shoot em if they don't?  Is that what you're saying?  I want to make sure of my next post.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't have to. I saw Finicum make a motion as though he was reaching for one. Also considering he typically had a gun on him during videos taken of him while at the refuge... given another passenger in the car said some of them were carrying sidearms... ...given Finicum said he wouldn't be taken alive... given the police and FBI said they found a gun on him -- only a complete fucking idiot would believe you over them.
> 
> Capiche?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> witnesses say he was shot while his hands had been up
> 
> where he was reaching is not where his inside pocket is located
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was one eye witness who said that. Not witnesses. There were multiple witnesses who said he was shot when he lowered his hands in a reaching movement.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes and the fbi added he was reaching for a gun that they did not see
> 
> it is obvious he was going for his waistline
> 
> not where the pocket opening is
> 
> the report by  Deshutes Major incident team will be interesting
> 
> when we get to hear the audio and radio traffic
> 
> dash cams and the vehicle
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Post the report where you read he was reaching for his waisteline.... let me in on the joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so now the video is too grainy to see that as well
Click to expand...

Damn, nice deflection. You claimed that reports said he was reaching towards his waistband. Post the report when you read that...


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, let's see if I can put another twist on the assholes in Oregon.  Sure the last four should have come out a long time ago, but I have to wonder about this dated Feb 3:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OPB reached out to the camp at 1:30 p.m., per the scheduled check-in, but the line was busy and remained so.
> 
> At 2:15 p.m., OPB received a call from a blocked number. The anonymous caller said that all lines of communication to the militants still inside the refuge had been cut at 12:50 p.m. and that further calls and updates would not be possible. The caller declined multiple requests to identify himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link: Last Line Of Communication With Militants Cut
> 
> I understand the reasoning, but isn't this a bit of more overstepping?  To localize your personal cell phone and cut it off and/or monitor it so closely?  Did they get a court order to do so?  Shouldn't they need to?
> 
> And then there's this, Feb 6:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new lighted sign changes from “Road Closed” to “No Unlawful Entry” to “Subject To Arrest.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reporters looking into the closed-off area from a nearby hill could observe what looked like multiple roadblocks along the road to the refuge headquarters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Link:  Police Add Warning To Refuge Roadblock
> 
> So cut off all communications and then keep the press miles away?
> 
> Yep, freedom of speech down there is dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
Click to expand...

You're a fucking retard.



Every one of those applied to Finicum. That's why.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
Click to expand...

There was still no hovering, only circling when the vehicle was not in motion.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> 
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> could have been a helicopter i suppose
> 
> that to is an "aircraft"
> 
> but a local craft probably would not have been in zulu time
Click to expand...

The FBI said it was in Zulu time. Whom do I believe? Thd FBI with first hand knowledge or a flaming conspiracist imbecile like you in a political forum?

Hmmm, tough choice.

Also from thd FBI...

 The FBI did have a plane in the air, and what I am about to show you is a video from that plane. 

... so definately not a helicopter.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are felons in the commission of a crime. They have no rights, other than to surrender.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
Click to expand...

Law enforcement had arrest warrants stemming from their illegal occupation of the refuge. Thd traffic stop was to enforce those warrants. Most of those being arrested complied with police and were taken into custody without incident. Evidence hhf police were seeking only to arrest them. Finicum, who previously made clear he would not be taken alive, chose to make a motion of reaching for a gun just feet away from two law enforcement officers with their guns pointed directly at him.

He didn't want to be taken al8ve and he knew full well the consequences of reaching for a weapon at that moment. 

He got what he wanted.

Suicide by cop.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
Click to expand...

You remain the fucking retard the forum has comd to recognize you are.

Any police officer is justified in using deadly force as long as they have a reasonable fear the individual or individuals they shoot are an immediate threat to their safety or the safety of others.

And in yet another aspect which eludes fucking retards such as yourself ... the threatening individual(s) don't even have to have a gun on them to be shot dead.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> 
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he indeed is lying about that
> 
> and there still needs to be an authorization to use deadly force
> 
> they way the roadblock was established indicates the order was given
Click to expand...

No, there does not need to be any such authorization. Very often, a potential lethal threat emerges withoug notice, requiring a law enforcement officer to react immediately. They do not have to call in for authorization to use their gun before pulling the trigger.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You remain the fucking retard the forum has comd to recognize you are.
> 
> Any police officer is justified in using deadly force as long as they have a reasonable fear the individual or individuals they shoot are an immediate threat to their safety or the safety of others.
> 
> And in yet another aspect which eludes fucking retards such as yourself ... the threatening individual(s) don't even have to have a gun on them to be shot dead.
Click to expand...

that's not true at all, they burned buildings in Ferguson and Baltimore and that's all those cops did.  So tell me what is the difference between this incident and those, other than skin color?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they never said that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he indeed is lying about that
> 
> and there still needs to be an authorization to use deadly force
> 
> they way the roadblock was established indicates the order was given
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, there does not need to be any such authorization. Very often, a potential lethal threat emerges withoug notice, requiring a law enforcement officer to react immediately. They do not have to call in for authorization to use their gun before pulling the trigger.
Click to expand...

you mean like Ferguson, MO there?  eh?  hahahahhahahahahahaha


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Law enforcement had arrest warrants stemming from their illegal occupation of the refuge. Thd traffic stop was to enforce those warrants. Most of those being arrested complied with police and were taken into custody without incident. Evidence hhf police were seeking only to arrest them. Finicum, who previously made clear he would not be taken alive, chose to make a motion of reaching for a gun just feet away from two law enforcement officers with their guns pointed directly at him.
> 
> He didn't want to be taken al8ve and he knew full well the consequences of reaching for a weapon at that moment.
> 
> He got what he wanted.
> 
> Suicide by cop.
Click to expand...

that seems so fk'd up it isn't even funny.  so let's take this to the road instead of a controlled environment.  yeah that's what I want the authorities doing,,,,, not. Especially after a fkn month.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well they were in their vehicles, how is that trespassing.  And how is that probable cause for shooting someone on a public road unarmed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> they had been trespassing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
Click to expand...

And they did not shoot him for trespassing or fleeing, though those factors may have contributed to a heightened threat level.

They shot him for the threatening gesture he made of reaching into his jacket.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> they had been trespassing
> 
> 
> 
> but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how long did he sit in the street before he left?  It was a while.  And speed?  What's the limit there?  what did they say he was doing, 60 miles an hour? hmmmm, that ain't someone fleeing, that's someone driving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Slow Draw Festus a retard? Even a stupid ass knows that when the cops have you stopped with red and blue lights flashing you are supposed to sit still and await instructions. Maybe if he watched a few episodes of the TV show COPS that has been showed for twenty years several times a day every day of the week he would have known what to do when the Cops stop you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you're saying that when one is asked to obey the instructions from a cop it's ok to shoot em if they don't?  Is that what you're saying?  I want to make sure of my next post.
Click to expand...

It's ok when they do that and make a gesture of reaching for a weapon.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> 
> 
> well they were in their vehicles, how is that trespassing.  And how is that probable cause for shooting someone on a public road unarmed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> they had been trespassing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And they did not shoot him for trespassing or fleeing, though those factors may have contributed to a heightened threat level.
> 
> They shot him for the threatening gesture he made of reaching into his jacket.
Click to expand...

what a dumb fk you are.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how long did he sit in the street before he left?  It was a while.  And speed?  What's the limit there?  what did they say he was doing, 60 miles an hour? hmmmm, that ain't someone fleeing, that's someone driving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Slow Draw Festus a retard? Even a stupid ass knows that when the cops have you stopped with red and blue lights flashing you are supposed to sit still and await instructions. Maybe if he watched a few episodes of the TV show COPS that has been showed for twenty years several times a day every day of the week he would have known what to do when the Cops stop you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you're saying that when one is asked to obey the instructions from a cop it's ok to shoot em if they don't?  Is that what you're saying?  I want to make sure of my next post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ok when they do that and make a gesture of reaching for a weapon.
Click to expand...

well I'd agree if that's what happened, but it wasn't.  Too bad, try again.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> how long did he sit in the street before he left?  It was a while.  And speed?  What's the limit there?  what did they say he was doing, 60 miles an hour? hmmmm, that ain't someone fleeing, that's someone driving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Slow Draw Festus a retard? Even a stupid ass knows that when the cops have you stopped with red and blue lights flashing you are supposed to sit still and await instructions. Maybe if he watched a few episodes of the TV show COPS that has been showed for twenty years several times a day every day of the week he would have known what to do when the Cops stop you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you're saying that when one is asked to obey the instructions from a cop it's ok to shoot em if they don't?  Is that what you're saying?  I want to make sure of my next post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ok when they do that and make a gesture of reaching for a weapon.
Click to expand...

oh, how would one know before he shot em that one had a gun?


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You remain the fucking retard the forum has comd to recognize you are.
> 
> Any police officer is justified in using deadly force as long as they have a reasonable fear the individual or individuals they shoot are an immediate threat to their safety or the safety of others.
> 
> And in yet another aspect which eludes fucking retards such as yourself ... the threatening individual(s) don't even have to have a gun on them to be shot dead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that's not true at all, they burned buildings in Ferguson and Baltimore and that's all those cops did.  So tell me what is the difference between this incident and those, other than skin color?
Click to expand...

Why would I bother with your deflection. Go start a thread about Ferguson if that's what you want to talk about. This thread is about the assholes (minus one now) in Orgeon.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
> 
> 
> 
> how long did he sit in the street before he left?  It was a while.  And speed?  What's the limit there?  what did they say he was doing, 60 miles an hour? hmmmm, that ain't someone fleeing, that's someone driving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Slow Draw Festus a retard? Even a stupid ass knows that when the cops have you stopped with red and blue lights flashing you are supposed to sit still and await instructions. Maybe if he watched a few episodes of the TV show COPS that has been showed for twenty years several times a day every day of the week he would have known what to do when the Cops stop you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you're saying that when one is asked to obey the instructions from a cop it's ok to shoot em if they don't?  Is that what you're saying?  I want to make sure of my next post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ok when they do that and make a gesture of reaching for a weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> well I'd agree if that's what happened, but it wasn't.  Too bad, try again.
Click to expand...


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> 
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Law enforcement had arrest warrants stemming from their illegal occupation of the refuge. Thd traffic stop was to enforce those warrants. Most of those being arrested complied with police and were taken into custody without incident. Evidence hhf police were seeking only to arrest them. Finicum, who previously made clear he would not be taken alive, chose to make a motion of reaching for a gun just feet away from two law enforcement officers with their guns pointed directly at him.
> 
> He didn't want to be taken al8ve and he knew full well the consequences of reaching for a weapon at that moment.
> 
> He got what he wanted.
> 
> Suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that seems so fk'd up it isn't even funny.  so let's take this to the road instead of a controlled environment.  yeah that's what I want the authorities doing,,,,, not. Especially after a fkn month.
Click to expand...

They "took" it to where no innocent bystandards could get hurt in case the occupiers decided to get into a shootout with them. Law enforcement acted exemplary.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Law enforcement had arrest warrants stemming from their illegal occupation of the refuge. Thd traffic stop was to enforce those warrants. Most of those being arrested complied with police and were taken into custody without incident. Evidence hhf police were seeking only to arrest them. Finicum, who previously made clear he would not be taken alive, chose to make a motion of reaching for a gun just feet away from two law enforcement officers with their guns pointed directly at him.
> 
> He didn't want to be taken al8ve and he knew full well the consequences of reaching for a weapon at that moment.
> 
> He got what he wanted.
> 
> Suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that seems so fk'd up it isn't even funny.  so let's take this to the road instead of a controlled environment.  yeah that's what I want the authorities doing,,,,, not. Especially after a fkn month.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They "took" it to where no innocent bystandards could get hurt in case the occupiers decided to get into a shootout with them. Law enforcement acted exemplary.
Click to expand...

who else was going to be at the complex?  what innocent bystandards were in the complex that weren't in the vehicles?  what kind of dumb fk are you?


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well they were in their vehicles, how is that trespassing.  And how is that probable cause for shooting someone on a public road unarmed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they had been trespassing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but they weren't trespassing when they were driving.  It was handled very badly and they murdered one unarmed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And they did not shoot him for trespassing or fleeing, though those factors may have contributed to a heightened threat level.
> 
> They shot him for the threatening gesture he made of reaching into his jacket.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> what a dumb fk you are.
Click to expand...

Oh? Which part do you think I got wrong?

You think they shot him for trespassing? 

You think they shot him for fleeing?

You think they didn't shoot him for making a threatening gesture?


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes the did trespass though
> 
> and they spend away from a police stop
> 
> but that does not indicate the use of deadly force
> 
> 
> 
> how long did he sit in the street before he left?  It was a while.  And speed?  What's the limit there?  what did they say he was doing, 60 miles an hour? hmmmm, that ain't someone fleeing, that's someone driving.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Slow Draw Festus a retard? Even a stupid ass knows that when the cops have you stopped with red and blue lights flashing you are supposed to sit still and await instructions. Maybe if he watched a few episodes of the TV show COPS that has been showed for twenty years several times a day every day of the week he would have known what to do when the Cops stop you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so you're saying that when one is asked to obey the instructions from a cop it's ok to shoot em if they don't?  Is that what you're saying?  I want to make sure of my next post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ok when they do that and make a gesture of reaching for a weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oh, how would one know before he shot em that one had a gun?
Click to expand...

Fucking retard... they saw him reaching towards the inside of his jacket.

That's all they needed to see.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
Click to expand...

He had a gun.   You saying he didn't doesn't make it true no matter how many times you say it.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He had a gun.   You saying he didn't doesn't make it true no matter how many times you say it.
Click to expand...

they didn't know if he did or didn't because it was concealed, so it's a bad shoot. No threat to take em down.

I doubt the dude even knew what the fk was going on.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
Click to expand...

A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He had a gun.   You saying he didn't doesn't make it true no matter how many times you say it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they didn't know if he did or didn't because it was concealed, so it's a bad shoot. No threat to take em down.
> 
> *I doubt the dude even knew what the fk was going on*.
Click to expand...

Wow....you are really doubling down on the denial, aren't you?


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> 
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Law enforcement had arrest warrants stemming from their illegal occupation of the refuge. Thd traffic stop was to enforce those warrants. Most of those being arrested complied with police and were taken into custody without incident. Evidence hhf police were seeking only to arrest them. Finicum, who previously made clear he would not be taken alive, chose to make a motion of reaching for a gun just feet away from two law enforcement officers with their guns pointed directly at him.
> 
> He didn't want to be taken al8ve and he knew full well the consequences of reaching for a weapon at that moment.
> 
> He got what he wanted.
> 
> Suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that seems so fk'd up it isn't even funny.  so let's take this to the road instead of a controlled environment.  yeah that's what I want the authorities doing,,,,, not. Especially after a fkn month.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They "took" it to where no innocent bystandards could get hurt in case the occupiers decided to get into a shootout with them. Law enforcement acted exemplary.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who else was going to be at the complex?  what innocent bystandards were in the complex that weren't in the vehicles?  what kind of dumb fk are you?
Click to expand...

That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they said plane, the problem is planes Don't hover. So Sherlock, how do you suppose their magic plane did that.
> 
> 
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?
Click to expand...

I know they don't hover.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> 
> 
> Law enforcement had arrest warrants stemming from their illegal occupation of the refuge. Thd traffic stop was to enforce those warrants. Most of those being arrested complied with police and were taken into custody without incident. Evidence hhf police were seeking only to arrest them. Finicum, who previously made clear he would not be taken alive, chose to make a motion of reaching for a gun just feet away from two law enforcement officers with their guns pointed directly at him.
> 
> He didn't want to be taken al8ve and he knew full well the consequences of reaching for a weapon at that moment.
> 
> He got what he wanted.
> 
> Suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> that seems so fk'd up it isn't even funny.  so let's take this to the road instead of a controlled environment.  yeah that's what I want the authorities doing,,,,, not. Especially after a fkn month.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They "took" it to where no innocent bystandards could get hurt in case the occupiers decided to get into a shootout with them. Law enforcement acted exemplary.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who else was going to be at the complex?  what innocent bystandards were in the complex that weren't in the vehicles?  what kind of dumb fk are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
Click to expand...

but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,

To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He had a gun.   You saying he didn't doesn't make it true no matter how many times you say it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they didn't know if he did or didn't because it was concealed, so it's a bad shoot. No threat to take em down.
> 
> I doubt the dude even knew what the fk was going on.
Click to expand...

It's ok, fucking retard. We enjoy reading your lunatic  rantings here.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He had a gun.   You saying he didn't doesn't make it true no matter how many times you say it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they didn't know if he did or didn't because it was concealed, so it's a bad shoot. No threat to take em down.
> 
> I doubt the dude even knew what the fk was going on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ok, fucking retard. We enjoy reading your lunatic  rantings here.
Click to expand...

likewise, you merely prove the hypocrites that you really are. and racist.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Law enforcement had arrest warrants stemming from their illegal occupation of the refuge. Thd traffic stop was to enforce those warrants. Most of those being arrested complied with police and were taken into custody without incident. Evidence hhf police were seeking only to arrest them. Finicum, who previously made clear he would not be taken alive, chose to make a motion of reaching for a gun just feet away from two law enforcement officers with their guns pointed directly at him.
> 
> He didn't want to be taken al8ve and he knew full well the consequences of reaching for a weapon at that moment.
> 
> He got what he wanted.
> 
> Suicide by cop.
> 
> 
> 
> that seems so fk'd up it isn't even funny.  so let's take this to the road instead of a controlled environment.  yeah that's what I want the authorities doing,,,,, not. Especially after a fkn month.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They "took" it to where no innocent bystandards could get hurt in case the occupiers decided to get into a shootout with them. Law enforcement acted exemplary.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who else was going to be at the complex?  what innocent bystandards were in the complex that weren't in the vehicles?  what kind of dumb fk are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
Click to expand...

If there were no others at the refuge, how did the 4 who are still there get there?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know they don't hover.
Click to expand...

You made this statement  "a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly"   What is your experience on the stall speeds of small single engine aircraft?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Law enforcement had arrest warrants stemming from their illegal occupation of the refuge. Thd traffic stop was to enforce those warrants. Most of those being arrested complied with police and were taken into custody without incident. Evidence hhf police were seeking only to arrest them. Finicum, who previously made clear he would not be taken alive, chose to make a motion of reaching for a gun just feet away from two law enforcement officers with their guns pointed directly at him.
> 
> He didn't want to be taken al8ve and he knew full well the consequences of reaching for a weapon at that moment.
> 
> He got what he wanted.
> 
> Suicide by cop.
> 
> 
> 
> that seems so fk'd up it isn't even funny.  so let's take this to the road instead of a controlled environment.  yeah that's what I want the authorities doing,,,,, not. Especially after a fkn month.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They "took" it to where no innocent bystandards could get hurt in case the occupiers decided to get into a shootout with them. Law enforcement acted exemplary.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who else was going to be at the complex?  what innocent bystandards were in the complex that weren't in the vehicles?  what kind of dumb fk are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
Click to expand...

And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know they don't hover.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter since the plane didn't hover.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> 
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know they don't hover.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made this statement  "a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly"   What is your experience on the stall speeds of small single engine aircraft?
Click to expand...

hey post up that plane information so I can check it out.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> 
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know they don't hover.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't matter since the plane didn't hover.
Click to expand...

it didn't, I know.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He had a gun.   You saying he didn't doesn't make it true no matter how many times you say it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they didn't know if he did or didn't because it was concealed, so it's a bad shoot. No threat to take em down.
> 
> I doubt the dude even knew what the fk was going on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ok, fucking retard. We enjoy reading your lunatic  rantings here.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> likewise, you merely prove the hypocrites that you really are. and racist.
Click to expand...


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that seems so fk'd up it isn't even funny.  so let's take this to the road instead of a controlled environment.  yeah that's what I want the authorities doing,,,,, not. Especially after a fkn month.
> 
> 
> 
> They "took" it to where no innocent bystandards could get hurt in case the occupiers decided to get into a shootout with them. Law enforcement acted exemplary.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who else was going to be at the complex?  what innocent bystandards were in the complex that weren't in the vehicles?  what kind of dumb fk are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
Click to expand...

fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.


----------



## bodecea

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> that seems so fk'd up it isn't even funny.  so let's take this to the road instead of a controlled environment.  yeah that's what I want the authorities doing,,,,, not. Especially after a fkn month.
> 
> 
> 
> They "took" it to where no innocent bystandards could get hurt in case the occupiers decided to get into a shootout with them. Law enforcement acted exemplary.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> who else was going to be at the complex?  what innocent bystandards were in the complex that weren't in the vehicles?  what kind of dumb fk are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If there were no others at the refuge, how did the 4 who are still there get there?
Click to expand...

I await his entertaining answer.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know they don't hover.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Doesn't matter since the plane didn't hover.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it didn't, I know.
Click to expand...

But you're a fucking retard; so no, you don't know. You only delude yourself into _thinking _ you know.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stupid ass, you do an armed occupation of federal property, and you are committing a felony. So the assholes were felons, and the police had ever right to stop and arrest them.
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He had a gun.   You saying he didn't doesn't make it true no matter how many times you say it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they didn't know if he did or didn't because it was concealed, so it's a bad shoot. No threat to take em down.
> 
> I doubt the dude even knew what the fk was going on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ok, fucking retard. We enjoy reading your lunatic  rantings here.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> likewise, you merely prove the hypocrites that you really are. and racist.
Click to expand...

Why did you get rid of some of your silly post?   What is it that makes Faun a "racist" to you?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> They "took" it to where no innocent bystandards could get hurt in case the occupiers decided to get into a shootout with them. Law enforcement acted exemplary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who else was going to be at the complex?  what innocent bystandards were in the complex that weren't in the vehicles?  what kind of dumb fk are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
Click to expand...

And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?

Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.


----------



## Faun

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> who else was going to be at the complex?  what innocent bystandards were in the complex that weren't in the vehicles?  what kind of dumb fk are you?
> 
> 
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
Click to expand...

About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.

What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> again, they were no threat, and killing someone on a snow bank with no gun is murder.  sorry charlie.
> 
> 
> 
> He had a gun.   You saying he didn't doesn't make it true no matter how many times you say it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> they didn't know if he did or didn't because it was concealed, so it's a bad shoot. No threat to take em down.
> 
> I doubt the dude even knew what the fk was going on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's ok, fucking retard. We enjoy reading your lunatic  rantings here.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> likewise, you merely prove the hypocrites that you really are. and racist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why did you get rid of some of your silly post?   What is it that makes Faun a "racist" to you?
Click to expand...

I did?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> who else was going to be at the complex?  what innocent bystandards were in the complex that weren't in the vehicles?  what kind of dumb fk are you?
> 
> 
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
Click to expand...

why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
> 
> 
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
Click to expand...

no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
> 
> 
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
Click to expand...

Cessna 152 off the top of my head.   Next question, little boy?


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know they don't hover.
Click to expand...

Camera's are able to mimic hovering because of the camera's ability to aim, keep aimed despite movement swivel and adjust focus to stay on a target. Is this technology news to you?


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
Click to expand...

And those were tear gas (or something of that nature) pellets.

_ Approximately 30 seconds after the shooting, law enforcement officers at the scene deployed flash bangs to disorient any other armed occupants. *Shortly after that, they deployed less-lethal sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray.*_​


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
Click to expand...

Smoke from "the bullets hitting the truck"?    Smoke?


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
Click to expand...

You have no way of knowing if those were standard lethal bullets, plastic bullets or foam bullets.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cessna 152 off the top of my head.   Next question, little boy?
Click to expand...


*Cruise speed:* 123 mph (107 knots, 198 km/h)
*Stall speed:* 49 mph (43 knots, 79 km/h) unpowered, flaps down
11 miles an hour, hmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so, but hey they don't hover for three minutes.


----------



## bodecea

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Amd those were tear gas (or something of that nature) pellets.
> 
> _ Approximately 30 seconds after the shooting, law enforcement officers at the scene deployed flash bangs to disorient any other armed occupants. *Shortly after that, they deployed less-lethal sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray.*_​
Click to expand...

Smoke....can you believe he said "smoke from the bullets hitting the truck"?


----------



## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have no way of knowing if those were standard lethal bullets, plastic bullets or foam bullets.
Click to expand...

nope, cause I never did experiments.  But they were shooting at em.  I don't care what with.  It's what I stated.

And they had no idea the old fart was concealing a weapon, if indeed he did. ONe was never produced for show.


----------



## Faun

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> 
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know they don't hover.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Camera's are able to mimic hovering because of the camera's ability to aim, keep aimed despite movement swivel and adjust focus to stay on a target. Is this technology news to you?
Click to expand...

A squirrel scurrying up a tree is news to that fucking retard.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cessna 152 off the top of my head.   Next question, little boy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Cruise speed:* 123 mph (107 knots, 198 km/h)
> *Stall speed:* 49 mph (43 knots, 79 km/h) unpowered, flaps down
> 11 miles an hour, hmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so, but hey they don't hover for three minutes.
Click to expand...

That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Amd those were tear gas (or something of that nature) pellets.
> 
> _ Approximately 30 seconds after the shooting, law enforcement officers at the scene deployed flash bangs to disorient any other armed occupants. *Shortly after that, they deployed less-lethal sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray.*_​
Click to expand...

sure, LOL


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know they don't hover.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made this statement  "a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly"   What is your experience on the stall speeds of small single engine aircraft?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hey post up that plane information so I can check it out.
Click to expand...

You are unable to process the simplest of data. It is highly doubtful you have the reading comprehension or intelligence to process the data you are requesting.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
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> bodecea said:
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> jc456 said:
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> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cessna 152 off the top of my head.   Next question, little boy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Cruise speed:* 123 mph (107 knots, 198 km/h)
> *Stall speed:* 49 mph (43 knots, 79 km/h) unpowered, flaps down
> 11 miles an hour, hmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so, but hey they don't hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?
Click to expand...

I did, I stated 11 miles an hour cushion, I don't think so.


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## jc456

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
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> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> A small plane can at 60....easy to do with a small single engine....especially easy if head wind and full flaps.  What's your experience in planes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know they don't hover.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made this statement  "a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly"   What is your experience on the stall speeds of small single engine aircraft?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hey post up that plane information so I can check it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are unable to process the simplest of data. It is highly doubtful you have the reading comprehension or intelligence to process the data you are requesting.
Click to expand...

facts are you can't justify it and scrambling around. I am and have been consistent.  You and your other dumb fks, not so much.  A lot of buts for ya all.


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## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
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> Faun said:
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> jc456 said:
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> bodecea said:
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> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Smoke from "the bullets hitting the truck"?    Smoke?
Click to expand...

yep smoke, did I stutter or something, or do you have issues reading English?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
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> jc456 said:
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> jc456 said:
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> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> 
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cessna 152 off the top of my head.   Next question, little boy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Cruise speed:* 123 mph (107 knots, 198 km/h)
> *Stall speed:* 49 mph (43 knots, 79 km/h) unpowered, flaps down
> 11 miles an hour, hmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so, but hey they don't hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did, I stated 11 miles an hour cushion, I don't think so.
Click to expand...

You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.  

Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.


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## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
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> Faun said:
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> bodecea said:
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Amd those were tear gas (or something of that nature) pellets.
> 
> _ Approximately 30 seconds after the shooting, law enforcement officers at the scene deployed flash bangs to disorient any other armed occupants. *Shortly after that, they deployed less-lethal sponge projectiles with OC capsules. Those OC capsules would be similar to pepper spray.*_​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sure, LOL
Click to expand...

Slobbers the forum retard.


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## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
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> jc456 said:
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> Faun said:
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> bodecea said:
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> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Smoke from "the bullets hitting the truck"?    Smoke?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yep smoke, did I stutter or something, or do you have issues reading English?
Click to expand...

Smoke.       You doubled down, didn't you?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
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> jc456 said:
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> Faun said:
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> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> 
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Smoke from "the bullets hitting the truck"?    Smoke?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yep smoke, did I stutter or something, or do you have issues reading English?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Smoke.       You doubled down, didn't you?
Click to expand...

again, can you read English?  How do you think a bullet gets fired?  Where there smoke there's fire.  Notice the word fired?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
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> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> 
> 
> Cessna 152 off the top of my head.   Next question, little boy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Cruise speed:* 123 mph (107 knots, 198 km/h)
> *Stall speed:* 49 mph (43 knots, 79 km/h) unpowered, flaps down
> 11 miles an hour, hmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so, but hey they don't hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did, I stated 11 miles an hour cushion, I don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.
> 
> Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.
Click to expand...

dude, I don't care, it can't hover, so I know it wasn't that plane or one like it.  So post up a plane that can hover that isn't a drone, and prove your plane.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


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> Faun said:
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> 
> 
> About a dozen law enforcement officers with laser sites, no less.
> 
> What the fucking retard sees in the video is where LEO were firing tear gas pellets at them.
> 
> 
> 
> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Smoke from "the bullets hitting the truck"?    Smoke?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yep smoke, did I stutter or something, or do you have issues reading English?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Smoke.       You doubled down, didn't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> again, can you read English?  How do you think a bullet gets fired?  Where there smoke there's fire.  Notice the word fired?
Click to expand...

Um...I guess I will be the one to explain to you that it is the gun that smokes.....NOT the bullets.


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## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
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> bodecea said:
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> 
> 
> Cessna 152 off the top of my head.   Next question, little boy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Cruise speed:* 123 mph (107 knots, 198 km/h)
> *Stall speed:* 49 mph (43 knots, 79 km/h) unpowered, flaps down
> 11 miles an hour, hmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so, but hey they don't hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did, I stated 11 miles an hour cushion, I don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.
> 
> Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care, it can't hover, so I know it wasn't that plane or one like it.  So post up a plane that can hover that isn't a drone, and prove your plane.
Click to expand...

Where is your evidence that a plane was hovering?


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
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> no I saw the smoke from the bullets hitting the truck. That was viewable.
> 
> 
> 
> Smoke from "the bullets hitting the truck"?    Smoke?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yep smoke, did I stutter or something, or do you have issues reading English?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Smoke.       You doubled down, didn't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> again, can you read English?  How do you think a bullet gets fired?  Where there smoke there's fire.  Notice the word fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um...I guess I will be the one to explain to you that it is the gun that smokes.....NOT the bullets.
Click to expand...

perhaps you never fired one.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
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> 
> *Cruise speed:* 123 mph (107 knots, 198 km/h)
> *Stall speed:* 49 mph (43 knots, 79 km/h) unpowered, flaps down
> 11 miles an hour, hmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so, but hey they don't hover for three minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did, I stated 11 miles an hour cushion, I don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.
> 
> Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care, it can't hover, so I know it wasn't that plane or one like it.  So post up a plane that can hover that isn't a drone, and prove your plane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence that a plane was hovering?
Click to expand...

three minutes on the video that's where.


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
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> bodecea said:
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> 
> 
> That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?
> 
> 
> 
> I did, I stated 11 miles an hour cushion, I don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.
> 
> Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care, it can't hover, so I know it wasn't that plane or one like it.  So post up a plane that can hover that isn't a drone, and prove your plane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence that a plane was hovering?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> three minutes on the video that's where.
Click to expand...

How do you know it wasn't a circling aircraft? Are you denying aerial cameras that can target and stay on target as the aircraft moves exist?


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
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> 
> Smoke from "the bullets hitting the truck"?    Smoke?
> 
> 
> 
> yep smoke, did I stutter or something, or do you have issues reading English?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Smoke.       You doubled down, didn't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> again, can you read English?  How do you think a bullet gets fired?  Where there smoke there's fire.  Notice the word fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um...I guess I will be the one to explain to you that it is the gun that smokes.....NOT the bullets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> perhaps you never fired one.
Click to expand...

Multiple times...I have my Expert Pistol and Rifle medals.....and I still keep up.   You?


----------



## bodecea

Camp said:


> jc456 said:
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> jc456 said:
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> 
> I did, I stated 11 miles an hour cushion, I don't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.
> 
> Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care, it can't hover, so I know it wasn't that plane or one like it.  So post up a plane that can hover that isn't a drone, and prove your plane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence that a plane was hovering?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> three minutes on the video that's where.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How do you know it wasn't a circling aircraft? Are you denying aerial cameras that can target and stay on target as the aircraft moves exist?
Click to expand...

Let him keep digging.  It's amusing.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


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> 
> That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?
> 
> 
> 
> I did, I stated 11 miles an hour cushion, I don't think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.
> 
> Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care, it can't hover, so I know it wasn't that plane or one like it.  So post up a plane that can hover that isn't a drone, and prove your plane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence that a plane was hovering?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> three minutes on the video that's where.
Click to expand...

You know the camera can stay on point with its platform moving, right?    Or wait......maybe you DON'T know.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
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> 
> yep smoke, did I stutter or something, or do you have issues reading English?
> 
> 
> 
> Smoke.       You doubled down, didn't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> again, can you read English?  How do you think a bullet gets fired?  Where there smoke there's fire.  Notice the word fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um...I guess I will be the one to explain to you that it is the gun that smokes.....NOT the bullets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> perhaps you never fired one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Multiple times...I have my Expert Pistol and Rifle medals.....and I still keep up.   You?
Click to expand...

nope, not a shooter anymore.  use to,


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## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
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> jc456 said:
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> 
> I did, I stated 11 miles an hour cushion, I don't think so.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.
> 
> Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, I don't care, it can't hover, so I know it wasn't that plane or one like it.  So post up a plane that can hover that isn't a drone, and prove your plane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence that a plane was hovering?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> three minutes on the video that's where.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know the camera can stay on point with its platform moving, right?    Or wait......maybe you DON'T know.
Click to expand...

dude you'd see the camera angle change, give it up you're losing the battle here. just admit it was a drone and call it a day.  my gawd you want that to be a plane, wtf?  why does it matter to you that much?  It was a drone,


----------



## Camp

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
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> bodecea said:
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> 
> 
> You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.
> 
> Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.
> 
> 
> 
> dude, I don't care, it can't hover, so I know it wasn't that plane or one like it.  So post up a plane that can hover that isn't a drone, and prove your plane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence that a plane was hovering?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> three minutes on the video that's where.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know the camera can stay on point with its platform moving, right?    Or wait......maybe you DON'T know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude you'd see the camera angle change, give it up you're losing the battle here. just admit it was a drone and call it a day.  my gawd you want that to be a plane, wtf?  why does it matter to you that much?  It was a drone,
Click to expand...

It is new technology, so maybe you are unaware of it. The first patent for a gyroscopically stabilized camera mount for a fixed wing aircraft wasn't issued until 1951. You are only 65 years behind in your knowledge of the topic.


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## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
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> Smoke.       You doubled down, didn't you?
> 
> 
> 
> again, can you read English?  How do you think a bullet gets fired?  Where there smoke there's fire.  Notice the word fired?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Um...I guess I will be the one to explain to you that it is the gun that smokes.....NOT the bullets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> perhaps you never fired one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Multiple times...I have my Expert Pistol and Rifle medals.....and I still keep up.   You?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope, not a shooter anymore.  use to,
Click to expand...

Sure.   Then you have known that the bullet doesn't "smoke".  It might kick up dust, but that's not smoke.  So pardon me if I simply don't believe you.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
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> 
> 
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> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> again, can you read English?  How do you think a bullet gets fired?  Where there smoke there's fire.  Notice the word fired?
> 
> 
> 
> Um...I guess I will be the one to explain to you that it is the gun that smokes.....NOT the bullets.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> perhaps you never fired one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Multiple times...I have my Expert Pistol and Rifle medals.....and I still keep up.   You?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope, not a shooter anymore.  use to,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.   Then you have known that the bullet doesn't "smoke".  It might kick up dust, but that's not smoke.  So pardon me if I simply don't believe you.
Click to expand...

it's called friction, it's how boy scouts start fires.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
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> jc456 said:
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> bodecea said:
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> jc456 said:
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> 
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> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.
> 
> Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.
> 
> 
> 
> dude, I don't care, it can't hover, so I know it wasn't that plane or one like it.  So post up a plane that can hover that isn't a drone, and prove your plane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence that a plane was hovering?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> three minutes on the video that's where.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know the camera can stay on point with its platform moving, right?    Or wait......maybe you DON'T know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude you'd see the camera angle change, give it up you're losing the battle here. just admit it was a drone and call it a day.  my gawd you want that to be a plane, wtf?  why does it matter to you that much?  It was a drone,
Click to expand...

Tell us what is different from a flying drone than a flying small plane.   You declare yourself an expert....point it out to us.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
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> 
> jc456 said:
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> bodecea said:
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> jc456 said:
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> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um...I guess I will be the one to explain to you that it is the gun that smokes.....NOT the bullets.
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps you never fired one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Multiple times...I have my Expert Pistol and Rifle medals.....and I still keep up.   You?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope, not a shooter anymore.  use to,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.   Then you have known that the bullet doesn't "smoke".  It might kick up dust, but that's not smoke.  So pardon me if I simply don't believe you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's called friction, it's how boy scouts start fires.
Click to expand...

So boy scouts start fires by the friction of bullets on metal or glass?    Keep digging, mate.  Keep digging.


----------



## jc456

bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> perhaps you never fired one.
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple times...I have my Expert Pistol and Rifle medals.....and I still keep up.   You?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> nope, not a shooter anymore.  use to,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.   Then you have known that the bullet doesn't "smoke".  It might kick up dust, but that's not smoke.  So pardon me if I simply don't believe you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's called friction, it's how boy scouts start fires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So boy scouts start fires by the friction of bullets on metal or glass?    Keep digging, mate.  Keep digging.
Click to expand...

again, it's called friction.


----------



## bodecea

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
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> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> Multiple times...I have my Expert Pistol and Rifle medals.....and I still keep up.   You?
> 
> 
> 
> nope, not a shooter anymore.  use to,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure.   Then you have known that the bullet doesn't "smoke".  It might kick up dust, but that's not smoke.  So pardon me if I simply don't believe you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's called friction, it's how boy scouts start fires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So boy scouts start fires by the friction of bullets on metal or glass?    Keep digging, mate.  Keep digging.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> again, it's called friction.
Click to expand...

As your example of Boy scouts with wood....now are you going to assert that the trucks were made of wood?


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
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> jc456 said:
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> Faun said:
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> 
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> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plane doesn't hover.
> 
> Have you forgotten already? You're a fucking retard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> could have been a helicopter i suppose
> 
> that to is an "aircraft"
> 
> but a local craft probably would not have been in zulu time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI said it was in Zulu time. Whom do I believe? Thd FBI with first hand knowledge or a flaming conspiracist imbecile like you in a political forum?
> 
> Hmmm, tough choice.
> 
> Also from thd FBI...
> 
> The FBI did have a plane in the air, and what I am about to show you is a video from that plane.
> 
> ... so definately not a helicopter.
Click to expand...


are you a retard or what 

a helicopter is also a plane 

btw the fbi said aircraft


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
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> 
> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
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> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like OWS.
> 
> If they cleared out an OWS protest, and kept the press miles away, and shot one of the protesters....  I wonder if your opinion would be just as harsh.  Doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them fort.
> 
> He got what he wanted.
> 
> Suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




bodecea said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
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> jc456 said:
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> bodecea said:
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> 
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> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cessna 152 off the top of my head.   Next question, little boy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Cruise speed:* 123 mph (107 knots, 198 km/h)
> *Stall speed:* 49 mph (43 knots, 79 km/h) unpowered, flaps down
> 11 miles an hour, hmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so, but hey they don't hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?
Click to expand...

==LOL

both of those numbers are indicated air speeds

which has nothing to do with how fast you are traveling along a path

--LOL

truth be known you can fly slower then the indicated stall speed

in fact is part of your checkride should you obtain one and other things showing you can balance power and pitch


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had any of the protesters resisted arrest, fled from authorities, been suspected of carrying a gun, and reached for it, they too would have been shot too.
> 
> 
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them fort.
> 
> He got what he wanted.
> 
> Suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> jc456 said:
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> bodecea said:
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> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cessna 152 off the top of my head.   Next question, little boy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Cruise speed:* 123 mph (107 knots, 198 km/h)
> *Stall speed:* 49 mph (43 knots, 79 km/h) unpowered, flaps down
> 11 miles an hour, hmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so, but hey they don't hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ==LOL
> 
> both of those numbers are indicated air speeds
> 
> which has nothing to do with how fast you are traveling along a path
> 
> --LOL
Click to expand...


No one has denied that can be true...in fact, with a decent head win, you can be going 60 knots and a lot less in ground speed.



> truth be known you can fly slower then the indicated stall speed
> 
> in fact is part of your checkride should you obtain one and other things showing you can balance power and pitch


Thank you for helping out.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
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> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
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> jc456 said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't think so?    Why don't you think so?   What is your experience in aircraft?   I'm asking you and you keep not answering.
> 
> Note:  11 mph is plenty of cushion if he's got power on.
> 
> 
> 
> dude, I don't care, it can't hover, so I know it wasn't that plane or one like it.  So post up a plane that can hover that isn't a drone, and prove your plane.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where is your evidence that a plane was hovering?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> three minutes on the video that's where.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You know the camera can stay on point with its platform moving, right?    Or wait......maybe you DON'T know.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude you'd see the camera angle change, give it up you're losing the battle here. just admit it was a drone and call it a day.  my gawd you want that to be a plane, wtf?  why does it matter to you that much?  It was a drone,
Click to expand...

If they were utilizing a craft which could hover, they wouldn't have circled around the vehicle when it was stopped; as doing so caused much of the video to be blocked by trees.

Ya see? Here's where you being a fucking retard hinders you. It prevents you from using your brain like a normal person.


----------



## jon_berzerk

bodecea said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so since none of that happened, why was the dude shot?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so being suspected of carrying a gun is why the use of deadly force was authorized
> 
> that certainly does not appear to be lawful
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them fort.
> 
> He got what he wanted.
> 
> Suicide by cop.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cessna 152 off the top of my head.   Next question, little boy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Cruise speed:* 123 mph (107 knots, 198 km/h)
> *Stall speed:* 49 mph (43 knots, 79 km/h) unpowered, flaps down
> 11 miles an hour, hmmmmmmmmmm I don't think so, but hey they don't hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is cruise speed....note the stall speed, little boy?  Plus, that is "unpowered".   You are not really all that knowledgeble of aircraft, are you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ==LOL
> 
> both of those numbers are indicated air speeds
> 
> which has nothing to do with how fast you are traveling along a path
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one has denied that can be true...in fact, with a decent head win, you can be going 60 knots and a lot less in ground speed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> truth be known you can fly slower then the indicated stall speed
> 
> in fact is part of your checkride should you obtain one and other things showing you can balance power and pitch
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you for helping out.
Click to expand...


you are welcome


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude I watched many minutes of the video and the camera shot never changed. Again, give me  a plane that can do that?
> 
> 
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> could have been a helicopter i suppose
> 
> that to is an "aircraft"
> 
> but a local craft probably would not have been in zulu time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI said it was in Zulu time. Whom do I believe? Thd FBI with first hand knowledge or a flaming conspiracist imbecile like you in a political forum?
> 
> Hmmm, tough choice.
> 
> Also from thd FBI...
> 
> The FBI did have a plane in the air, and what I am about to show you is a video from that plane.
> 
> ... so definately not a helicopter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you a retard or what
> 
> a helicopter is also a plane
> 
> btw the fbi said aircraft
Click to expand...

The FBI used both terms. I posted earlier where they referred to it as a plane. And while some types of helicopters may qualify as a plane (and some planes can convert to lift/land like a helicopter), most do not meet the requirements of the definition.

 *Airplane*, also called *aeroplane* or *plane*, any of a class of fixed-wing aircraft that is heavier than air, propelled by a screw propeller or a high-velocity jet, and supported by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings. For an account of the development of the airplane and the advent of civil aviation​
 *Helicopter*, aircraft with one or more power-driven horizontal propellers or rotors that enable it to take off and land vertically, to move in any direction, or to remain stationary in the air. Other vertical-flight craft include autogiros, convertiplanes, and V/STOL aircraft of a number of configurations.​


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forget, you're a fucking retard. The plane never hovers. When the vehicle was moving, the plane was following it. When the vehicle was still, the plane circled around it.
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> could have been a helicopter i suppose
> 
> that to is an "aircraft"
> 
> but a local craft probably would not have been in zulu time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI said it was in Zulu time. Whom do I believe? Thd FBI with first hand knowledge or a flaming conspiracist imbecile like you in a political forum?
> 
> Hmmm, tough choice.
> 
> Also from thd FBI...
> 
> The FBI did have a plane in the air, and what I am about to show you is a video from that plane.
> 
> ... so definately not a helicopter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you a retard or what
> 
> a helicopter is also a plane
> 
> btw the fbi said aircraft
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI used both terms. I posted earlier where they referred to it as a plane. And while some types of helicopters may qualify as a plane (and some planes can convert to lift/land like a helicopter), most do not meet the requirements of the definition.
> 
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/airplane]
> *Airplane*, also called *aeroplane* or *plane*[/url], any of a class of fixed-wing aircraft that is heavier than air, propelled by a screw propeller or a high-velocity jet, and supported by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings. For an account of the development of the airplane and the advent of civil aviation​
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/helicopter]
> *Helicopter*[/url], aircraft with one or more power-driven horizontal propellers or rotors that enable it to take off and land vertically, to move in any direction, or to remain stationary in the air. Other vertical-flight craft include autogiros, convertiplanes, and V/STOL aircraft of a number of configurations.​
Click to expand...

all helicopters qualify as a plane 

there are two types of planes

fixed wing  and roto wing


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> hahahaahahahahahahahaahhaahaha too funny a plane can now go 60 miles an hour and fly?  Oh and when the car is in a snow bank can hover for three minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> could have been a helicopter i suppose
> 
> that to is an "aircraft"
> 
> but a local craft probably would not have been in zulu time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI said it was in Zulu time. Whom do I believe? Thd FBI with first hand knowledge or a flaming conspiracist imbecile like you in a political forum?
> 
> Hmmm, tough choice.
> 
> Also from thd FBI...
> 
> The FBI did have a plane in the air, and what I am about to show you is a video from that plane.
> 
> ... so definately not a helicopter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you a retard or what
> 
> a helicopter is also a plane
> 
> btw the fbi said aircraft
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI used both terms. I posted earlier where they referred to it as a plane. And while some types of helicopters may qualify as a plane (and some planes can convert to lift/land like a helicopter), most do not meet the requirements of the definition.
> 
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/airplane]
> *Airplane*, also called *aeroplane* or *plane*[/url], any of a class of fixed-wing aircraft that is heavier than air, propelled by a screw propeller or a high-velocity jet, and supported by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings. For an account of the development of the airplane and the advent of civil aviation​
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/helicopter]
> *Helicopter*[/url], aircraft with one or more power-driven horizontal propellers or rotors that enable it to take off and land vertically, to move in any direction, or to remain stationary in the air. Other vertical-flight craft include autogiros, convertiplanes, and V/STOL aircraft of a number of configurations.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all helicopters qualify as a plane
> 
> there are two types of planes
> 
> fixed wing  and roto wing
Click to expand...

Prove it. Post a definition (not your own) that all helicopters are planes....


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> could have been a helicopter i suppose
> 
> that to is an "aircraft"
> 
> but a local craft probably would not have been in zulu time
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said it was in Zulu time. Whom do I believe? Thd FBI with first hand knowledge or a flaming conspiracist imbecile like you in a political forum?
> 
> Hmmm, tough choice.
> 
> Also from thd FBI...
> 
> The FBI did have a plane in the air, and what I am about to show you is a video from that plane.
> 
> ... so definately not a helicopter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> are you a retard or what
> 
> a helicopter is also a plane
> 
> btw the fbi said aircraft
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI used both terms. I posted earlier where they referred to it as a plane. And while some types of helicopters may qualify as a plane (and some planes can convert to lift/land like a helicopter), most do not meet the requirements of the definition.
> 
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/airplane]
> *Airplane*, also called *aeroplane* or *plane*[/url], any of a class of fixed-wing aircraft that is heavier than air, propelled by a screw propeller or a high-velocity jet, and supported by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings. For an account of the development of the airplane and the advent of civil aviation​
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/helicopter]
> *Helicopter*[/url], aircraft with one or more power-driven horizontal propellers or rotors that enable it to take off and land vertically, to move in any direction, or to remain stationary in the air. Other vertical-flight craft include autogiros, convertiplanes, and V/STOL aircraft of a number of configurations.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all helicopters qualify as a plane
> 
> there are two types of planes
> 
> fixed wing  and roto wing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. Post a definition (not your own) that all helicopters are planes....
Click to expand...


i am not going to argue with you over it 

it is just a fact helicopters are rotary wing planes 

so if you want to look stupid that is your business


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI said it was in Zulu time. Whom do I believe? Thd FBI with first hand knowledge or a flaming conspiracist imbecile like you in a political forum?
> 
> Hmmm, tough choice.
> 
> Also from thd FBI...
> 
> The FBI did have a plane in the air, and what I am about to show you is a video from that plane.
> 
> ... so definately not a helicopter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you a retard or what
> 
> a helicopter is also a plane
> 
> btw the fbi said aircraft
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI used both terms. I posted earlier where they referred to it as a plane. And while some types of helicopters may qualify as a plane (and some planes can convert to lift/land like a helicopter), most do not meet the requirements of the definition.
> 
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/airplane]
> *Airplane*, also called *aeroplane* or *plane*[/url], any of a class of fixed-wing aircraft that is heavier than air, propelled by a screw propeller or a high-velocity jet, and supported by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings. For an account of the development of the airplane and the advent of civil aviation​
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/helicopter]
> *Helicopter*[/url], aircraft with one or more power-driven horizontal propellers or rotors that enable it to take off and land vertically, to move in any direction, or to remain stationary in the air. Other vertical-flight craft include autogiros, convertiplanes, and V/STOL aircraft of a number of configurations.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all helicopters qualify as a plane
> 
> there are two types of planes
> 
> fixed wing  and roto wing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. Post a definition (not your own) that all helicopters are planes....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i am not going to argue with you over it
> 
> it is just a fact helicopters are rotary wing planes
> 
> so if you want to look stupid that is your business
Click to expand...

If you could prove it, you would. Like I did when I posted the definitions.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> are you a retard or what
> 
> a helicopter is also a plane
> 
> btw the fbi said aircraft
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI used both terms. I posted earlier where they referred to it as a plane. And while some types of helicopters may qualify as a plane (and some planes can convert to lift/land like a helicopter), most do not meet the requirements of the definition.
> 
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/airplane]
> *Airplane*, also called *aeroplane* or *plane*[/url], any of a class of fixed-wing aircraft that is heavier than air, propelled by a screw propeller or a high-velocity jet, and supported by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings. For an account of the development of the airplane and the advent of civil aviation​
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/helicopter]
> *Helicopter*[/url], aircraft with one or more power-driven horizontal propellers or rotors that enable it to take off and land vertically, to move in any direction, or to remain stationary in the air. Other vertical-flight craft include autogiros, convertiplanes, and V/STOL aircraft of a number of configurations.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> all helicopters qualify as a plane
> 
> there are two types of planes
> 
> fixed wing  and roto wing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. Post a definition (not your own) that all helicopters are planes....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i am not going to argue with you over it
> 
> it is just a fact helicopters are rotary wing planes
> 
> so if you want to look stupid that is your business
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you could prove it, you would. Like I did when I posted the definitions.
Click to expand...


i dont have to prove it it is just a fact 

that helicopters are rotary wing aircraft 

i like it when you keep pounding your stupidity onto the board 

post another stupid post to give me (and others) a laugh


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI used both terms. I posted earlier where they referred to it as a plane. And while some types of helicopters may qualify as a plane (and some planes can convert to lift/land like a helicopter), most do not meet the requirements of the definition.
> 
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/airplane]
> *Airplane*, also called *aeroplane* or *plane*[/url], any of a class of fixed-wing aircraft that is heavier than air, propelled by a screw propeller or a high-velocity jet, and supported by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings. For an account of the development of the airplane and the advent of civil aviation​
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/helicopter]
> *Helicopter*[/url], aircraft with one or more power-driven horizontal propellers or rotors that enable it to take off and land vertically, to move in any direction, or to remain stationary in the air. Other vertical-flight craft include autogiros, convertiplanes, and V/STOL aircraft of a number of configurations.​
> 
> 
> 
> all helicopters qualify as a plane
> 
> there are two types of planes
> 
> fixed wing  and roto wing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. Post a definition (not your own) that all helicopters are planes....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i am not going to argue with you over it
> 
> it is just a fact helicopters are rotary wing planes
> 
> so if you want to look stupid that is your business
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you could prove it, you would. Like I did when I posted the definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i dont have to prove it it is just a fact
> 
> that helicopters are rotary wing aircraft
> 
> i like it when you keep pounding your stupidity onto the board
> 
> post another stupid post to give me (and others) a laugh
Click to expand...

You said "plane." Of course helicopters are "aircraft."

You're as retarded as that other schmuck, also making up his own definition for words.


----------



## bodecea

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI used both terms. I posted earlier where they referred to it as a plane. And while some types of helicopters may qualify as a plane (and some planes can convert to lift/land like a helicopter), most do not meet the requirements of the definition.
> 
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/airplane]
> *Airplane*, also called *aeroplane* or *plane*[/url], any of a class of fixed-wing aircraft that is heavier than air, propelled by a screw propeller or a high-velocity jet, and supported by the dynamic reaction of the air against its wings. For an account of the development of the airplane and the advent of civil aviation​
> [http://www.britannica.com/technology/helicopter]
> *Helicopter*[/url], aircraft with one or more power-driven horizontal propellers or rotors that enable it to take off and land vertically, to move in any direction, or to remain stationary in the air. Other vertical-flight craft include autogiros, convertiplanes, and V/STOL aircraft of a number of configurations.​
> 
> 
> 
> all helicopters qualify as a plane
> 
> there are two types of planes
> 
> fixed wing  and roto wing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Prove it. Post a definition (not your own) that all helicopters are planes....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i am not going to argue with you over it
> 
> it is just a fact helicopters are rotary wing planes
> 
> so if you want to look stupid that is your business
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you could prove it, you would. Like I did when I posted the definitions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i dont have to prove it it is just a fact
> 
> that helicopters are rotary wing aircraft
> 
> i like it when you keep pounding your stupidity onto the board
> 
> post another stupid post to give me (and others) a laugh
Click to expand...

Aircraft.


----------



## Old Rocks

jon_berzerk said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> dude, it's called probable cause.  I don't even know what they were after them for?  So not sure what kind of probable cause they could have.  it was a traffic stop and bang bang bang.  What the fk?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> which one had a felony
> 
> post it fuckstick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All, idiot. Armed occupation of a Federal Installation is actually several felonies. I hope they charge them on all, and make the sentences consecutive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> liar not one is a convicted felon
> 
> so now the federal land is not public land afterall
Click to expand...

A bank robber shot during a robbery is not convicted either. But we still call him a bank robber. The assholes at the refuge are felons. Occupying a federal installation by force of arms is a felony, and an act of sedition.

Most federal land is public land. But you just go ahead and try to occupy any of it by force of arms, and you have committed a whole bunch of felonies.


----------



## Old Rocks

jc456 said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> That you don't know there were others still at the refuge only further demonstrates your ignorance. Not everyone went with them. If I'm not mistaken, there are four others who are still holed up at the refuge.
> 
> 
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
Click to expand...

Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.


----------



## Camp

Old Rocks said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
Click to expand...

JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward accused militias Monday of harassing law enforcement officials and federal employees. Though there haven't been physical threats, he said, the alleged behavior is clearly meant to intimidate
Sheriff handling Oregon standoff denounces intimidation of law enforcement…


----------



## Faun

Camp said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
Click to expand...

It makes no difference in terms of Finicum getting killed, which was a justified shooting. But it goes a long way in revealing their mental state and why they're just making shit up because they can't understand that reality.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Old Rocks said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> for trespassing
> 
> the order to use deadly force needs to be made public
> 
> it will be in time
> 
> 
> 
> Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> which one had a felony
> 
> post it fuckstick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All, idiot. Armed occupation of a Federal Installation is actually several felonies. I hope they charge them on all, and make the sentences consecutive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> liar not one is a convicted felon
> 
> so now the federal land is not public land afterall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A bank robber shot during a robbery is not convicted either. But we still call him a bank robber. The assholes at the refuge are felons. Occupying a federal installation by force of arms is a felony, and an act of sedition.
> 
> Most federal land is public land. But you just go ahead and try to occupy any of it by force of arms, and you have committed a whole bunch of felonies.
Click to expand...


dude get a grip 

shot dead for trespassing 

really you tyrant 

every other day you call that federal land 

the publics land 

you are a puke 

y


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the felons were armed, and had threatened to use deadly force if anyone tried to arrest them, there was no need for an order to use deadly force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which one had a felony
> 
> post it fuckstick
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All, idiot. Armed occupation of a Federal Installation is actually several felonies. I hope they charge them on all, and make the sentences consecutive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> liar not one is a convicted felon
> 
> so now the federal land is not public land afterall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A bank robber shot during a robbery is not convicted either. But we still call him a bank robber. The assholes at the refuge are felons. Occupying a federal installation by force of arms is a felony, and an act of sedition.
> 
> Most federal land is public land. But you just go ahead and try to occupy any of it by force of arms, and you have committed a whole bunch of felonies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> dude get a grip
> 
> shot dead for trespassing
> 
> really you tyrant
> 
> every other day you call that federal land
> 
> the publics land
> 
> you are a puke
> y
Click to expand...

How sad.  You *still* don't get it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




He wasn't shot dead for trespassing.

He was being arrested for trespassing.

But as he said in the days leading up to his death, he wasn't going to let the police arrest him alive.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
Click to expand...



i meant to call helicopter an aircraft

it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane 

considering the remoteness and ability to linger around 

when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones 

which witnesses say are seen in the area


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> which one had a felony
> 
> post it fuckstick
> 
> 
> 
> All, idiot. Armed occupation of a Federal Installation is actually several felonies. I hope they charge them on all, and make the sentences consecutive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> liar not one is a convicted felon
> 
> so now the federal land is not public land afterall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A bank robber shot during a robbery is not convicted either. But we still call him a bank robber. The assholes at the refuge are felons. Occupying a federal installation by force of arms is a felony, and an act of sedition.
> 
> Most federal land is public land. But you just go ahead and try to occupy any of it by force of arms, and you have committed a whole bunch of felonies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> dude get a grip
> 
> shot dead for trespassing
> 
> really you tyrant
> 
> every other day you call that federal land
> 
> the publics land
> 
> you are a puke
> y
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How sad.  You *still* don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't shot dead for trespassing.
> 
> He was being arrested for trespassing.
> 
> But as he said in the days leading up to his death, he wasn't going to let the police arrest him alive.
Click to expand...



your opinion thats all you have


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i meant to call helicopter an aircraft
> 
> it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane
> 
> considering the remoteness and ability to linger around
> 
> when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones
> 
> which witnesses say are seen in the area
Click to expand...

So you admit a helicopter is not a plane, even though that's what you called it *3 separate times*  and insisted you don't have to proved after I posted the definition and challenged you to prove you idiotic claim.

LOLOLOLOL


----------



## jc456

Old Rocks said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but dude, the same people that were in the complex were in the vehicles!  dude you're one stupid fk.  duhhh,
> 
> To be clear, innocent bystanders?  hahahhahahaahhahaahahaha
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
Click to expand...

so does the FBI own them?


----------



## Hutch Starskey

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So since the FBI says it was a plane, you lap it up as truth.  Yes it was flying in circles, but please tell me, how can a plane fly so slow of circles.  Last I checked unless it is an ultralight or a drone, most small airplanes have to flay at the least 60+ mph to stay airborne.
Click to expand...


fbi surveillance planes - Google Search

Derp!


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i meant to call helicopter an aircraft
> 
> it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane
> 
> considering the remoteness and ability to linger around
> 
> when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones
> 
> which witnesses say are seen in the area
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense to use a fixed-wing aircraft in that situation. If that is what the Oregon State Police wanted, or the FBI wanted, it is up to them to decide which is the best tool for the task at hand.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> 
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i meant to call helicopter an aircraft
> 
> it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane
> 
> considering the remoteness and ability to linger around
> 
> when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones
> 
> which witnesses say are seen in the area
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you admit a helicopter is not a plane, even though that's what you called it *3 separate times*  and insisted you don't have to proved after I posted the definition and challenged you to prove you idiotic claim.
> 
> LOLOLOLOL
Click to expand...


--LOL

you are the idiot 

the fbi did say aircraft


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> All, idiot. Armed occupation of a Federal Installation is actually several felonies. I hope they charge them on all, and make the sentences consecutive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> liar not one is a convicted felon
> 
> so now the federal land is not public land afterall
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A bank robber shot during a robbery is not convicted either. But we still call him a bank robber. The assholes at the refuge are felons. Occupying a federal installation by force of arms is a felony, and an act of sedition.
> 
> Most federal land is public land. But you just go ahead and try to occupy any of it by force of arms, and you have committed a whole bunch of felonies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> dude get a grip
> 
> shot dead for trespassing
> 
> really you tyrant
> 
> every other day you call that federal land
> 
> the publics land
> 
> you are a puke
> y
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How sad.  You *still* don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't shot dead for trespassing.
> 
> He was being arrested for trespassing.
> 
> But as he said in the days leading up to his death, he wasn't going to let the police arrest him alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> your opinion thats all you have
Click to expand...

That's all any of us have. Only unlike yours, mine isn't rooted in insanity.

The guy was being arrested. He himself said he wouldn't be taken alive. Then, while police standing maybe 15 feet away from him with their guns pointed at him, he lowers his hands in a "reaching" motion, knowing how the police would react.

G'head, convince me you're not batshit insane....


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i meant to call helicopter an aircraft
> 
> it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane
> 
> considering the remoteness and ability to linger around
> 
> when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones
> 
> which witnesses say are seen in the area
Click to expand...


The FBI controlled the airport remember. All they needed if it wasn't available on site was a support vehicle with fuel.

fbi surveillance planes - Google Search


----------



## jc456

Hutch Starskey said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So since the FBI says it was a plane, you lap it up as truth.  Yes it was flying in circles, but please tell me, how can a plane fly so slow of circles.  Last I checked unless it is an ultralight or a drone, most small airplanes have to flay at the least 60+ mph to stay airborne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
Click to expand...


FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
derp, derp!!


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jc456 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And....they were not shot, were they?   Note the difference on what they did...and the outcome?    Let that be a lesson for you.
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so does the FBI own them?
Click to expand...


fbi surveillance planes - Google Search

Derp!


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> 
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i meant to call helicopter an aircraft
> 
> it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane
> 
> considering the remoteness and ability to linger around
> 
> when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones
> 
> which witnesses say are seen in the area
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It makes perfect sense to use a fixed-wing aircraft in that situation. If that is what the Oregon State Police wanted, or the FBI wanted, it is up to them to decide which is the best tool for the task at hand.
Click to expand...


which fixed wing would be appropriate to linger around in the remote area 

and have its 54 minute reserve fuel available 

the drone would by far be the "best choice "


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> liar not one is a convicted felon
> 
> so now the federal land is not public land afterall
> 
> 
> 
> A bank robber shot during a robbery is not convicted either. But we still call him a bank robber. The assholes at the refuge are felons. Occupying a federal installation by force of arms is a felony, and an act of sedition.
> 
> Most federal land is public land. But you just go ahead and try to occupy any of it by force of arms, and you have committed a whole bunch of felonies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> dude get a grip
> 
> shot dead for trespassing
> 
> really you tyrant
> 
> every other day you call that federal land
> 
> the publics land
> 
> you are a puke
> y
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How sad.  You *still* don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't shot dead for trespassing.
> 
> He was being arrested for trespassing.
> 
> But as he said in the days leading up to his death, he wasn't going to let the police arrest him alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> your opinion thats all you have
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's all any of us have. Only unlike yours, mine isn't rooted in insanity.
> 
> The guy was being arrested. He himself said he wouldn't be taken alive. Then, while police standing maybe 15 feet away from him with their guns pointed at him, he lowers his hands in a "reaching" motion, knowing how the police would react.
> 
> G'head, convince me you're not batshit insane....
Click to expand...

exactly, and opinions are not fact.  Have a nice day!


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> 
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i meant to call helicopter an aircraft
> 
> it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane
> 
> considering the remoteness and ability to linger around
> 
> when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones
> 
> which witnesses say are seen in the area
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you admit a helicopter is not a plane, even though that's what you called it *3 separate times*  and insisted you don't have to proved after I posted the definition and challenged you to prove you idiotic claim.
> 
> LOLOLOLOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> --LOL
> 
> you are the idiot
> 
> the fbi did say aircraft
Click to expand...

Nah, the idiot is you since I already acknowledged they called it an aircraft in post #4159.

Just how fucking desperate are you?


----------



## jon_berzerk

Hutch Starskey said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so does the FBI own them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
Click to expand...


wow 

--LOL


----------



## jc456

Hutch Starskey said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> fk, didn't you watch the video?  I bet that truck got hit five or more times.  Five I could count.
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so does the FBI own them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
Click to expand...

FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
derp, derp!!


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> 
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i meant to call helicopter an aircraft
> 
> it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane
> 
> considering the remoteness and ability to linger around
> 
> when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones
> 
> which witnesses say are seen in the area
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you admit a helicopter is not a plane, even though that's what you called it *3 separate times*  and insisted you don't have to proved after I posted the definition and challenged you to prove you idiotic claim.
> 
> LOLOLOLOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> --LOL
> 
> you are the idiot
> 
> the fbi did say aircraft
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nah, the idiot is you since I already acknowledged they called it an aircraft in post #4159.
> 
> Just how fucking desperate are you?
Click to expand...



a helicopter or a drone are aircraft


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jc456 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So since the FBI says it was a plane, you lap it up as truth.  Yes it was flying in circles, but please tell me, how can a plane fly so slow of circles.  Last I checked unless it is an ultralight or a drone, most small airplanes have to flay at the least 60+ mph to stay airborne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/clip_image002_thumb1.jpg?w=624&h=351
> derp, derp!!
Click to expand...


What is the relevance of that image?


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> And.....?  Your proof?   Besides the fact that no one was hit....what amazing luck, eh?
> 
> Still waiting to hear about your flying experience.
> 
> 
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so does the FBI own them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
> derp, derp!!
Click to expand...



from the link

FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.

the standoff would be a difficult case 

--LOL


----------



## jc456

Hutch Starskey said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So since the FBI says it was a plane, you lap it up as truth.  Yes it was flying in circles, but please tell me, how can a plane fly so slow of circles.  Last I checked unless it is an ultralight or a drone, most small airplanes have to flay at the least 60+ mph to stay airborne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/clip_image002_thumb1.jpg?w=624&h=351
> derp, derp!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is the relevance of that image?
Click to expand...

wrong file in my copy, I updated it.


----------



## Faun

Hutch Starskey said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So since the FBI says it was a plane, you lap it up as truth.  Yes it was flying in circles, but please tell me, how can a plane fly so slow of circles.  Last I checked unless it is an ultralight or a drone, most small airplanes have to flay at the least 60+ mph to stay airborne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
Click to expand...

 FBI planes that flew over police protests had sophisticated surveillance cameras


----------



## jon_berzerk

Hutch Starskey said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> 
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> i meant to call helicopter an aircraft
> 
> it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane
> 
> considering the remoteness and ability to linger around
> 
> when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones
> 
> which witnesses say are seen in the area
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It makes perfect sense to use a fixed-wing aircraft in that situation. If that is what the Oregon State Police wanted, or the FBI wanted, it is up to them to decide which is the best tool for the task at hand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> which fixed wing would be appropriate to linger around in the remote area
> 
> and have its 54 minute reserve fuel available
> 
> the drone would by far be the "best choice "
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except they said it was a plane. You are insane to argue such a point.
Click to expand...



they said aircraft 

but however a "plane" can be a drone 

if you say a plane is a fixed wing aircraft 

use the one from the cnn link as an example 

of a fixed wing drone


----------



## jon_berzerk

Faun said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So since the FBI says it was a plane, you lap it up as truth.  Yes it was flying in circles, but please tell me, how can a plane fly so slow of circles.  Last I checked unless it is an ultralight or a drone, most small airplanes have to flay at the least 60+ mph to stay airborne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FBI planes that flew over police protests had sophisticated surveillance cameras
Click to expand...



indeed

probably because the could fulfill the legal requirements of having the reserve fuel requirement

plus it flew over


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> first off it was not a plane it was a drone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to highlight and point out this as fact as well.  There is no way an airplane could have been flying that slow to take that video.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The FBI says it was a plane. I have reason to believe you over them. Plus you'll note, it was flying in circles when Finicum's vehicle was stopped.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So since the FBI says it was a plane, you lap it up as truth.  Yes it was flying in circles, but please tell me, how can a plane fly so slow of circles.  Last I checked unless it is an ultralight or a drone, most small airplanes have to flay at the least 60+ mph to stay airborne.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
> derp, derp!!
Click to expand...

And according to you, that could "hover."

LOLOLOLOL


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> A bank robber shot during a robbery is not convicted either. But we still call him a bank robber. The assholes at the refuge are felons. Occupying a federal installation by force of arms is a felony, and an act of sedition.
> 
> Most federal land is public land. But you just go ahead and try to occupy any of it by force of arms, and you have committed a whole bunch of felonies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dude get a grip
> 
> shot dead for trespassing
> 
> really you tyrant
> 
> every other day you call that federal land
> 
> the publics land
> 
> you are a puke
> y
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How sad.  You *still* don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't shot dead for trespassing.
> 
> He was being arrested for trespassing.
> 
> But as he said in the days leading up to his death, he wasn't going to let the police arrest him alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> your opinion thats all you have
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's all any of us have. Only unlike yours, mine isn't rooted in insanity.
> 
> The guy was being arrested. He himself said he wouldn't be taken alive. Then, while police standing maybe 15 feet away from him with their guns pointed at him, he lowers his hands in a "reaching" motion, knowing how the police would react.
> 
> G'head, convince me you're not batshit insane....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly, and opinions are not fact.  Have a nice day!
Click to expand...

My day is off to a fun start; watching you retards parade your idiocy.


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i meant to call helicopter an aircraft
> 
> it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane
> 
> considering the remoteness and ability to linger around
> 
> when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones
> 
> which witnesses say are seen in the area
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you admit a helicopter is not a plane, even though that's what you called it *3 separate times*  and insisted you don't have to proved after I posted the definition and challenged you to prove you idiotic claim.
> 
> LOLOLOLOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> --LOL
> 
> you are the idiot
> 
> the fbi did say aircraft
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nah, the idiot is you since I already acknowledged they called it an aircraft in post #4159.
> 
> Just how fucking desperate are you?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> a helicopter or a drone are aircraft
Click to expand...

So? And shit is brown. What does any of that have to do with the fact that the FBI said it was a plane?


----------



## Faun

jon_berzerk said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> JC is arguing with a retired Navy pilot about aircraft,  flying and piloting. The other guy, Jon, is calling a helicopter an airplane. I am wondering what difference it makes about the type aircraft that was used to video the terrorist trying to run around a roadblock and attempt to have a gunfight with the Oregon State Police.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i meant to call helicopter an aircraft
> 
> it makes no difference either except it does not make sense the it was a airplane
> 
> considering the remoteness and ability to linger around
> 
> when the fbi has their own fully equipped drones
> 
> which witnesses say are seen in the area
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It makes perfect sense to use a fixed-wing aircraft in that situation. If that is what the Oregon State Police wanted, or the FBI wanted, it is up to them to decide which is the best tool for the task at hand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> which fixed wing would be appropriate to linger around in the remote area
> 
> and have its 54 minute reserve fuel available
> 
> the drone would by far be the "best choice "
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except they said it was a plane. You are insane to argue such a point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> they said aircraft
> 
> but however a "plane" can be a drone
> 
> if you say a plane is a fixed wing aircraft
> 
> use the one from the cnn link as an example
> 
> of a fixed wing drone
Click to expand...

It could have been a drone, but they never said it was. They referred to it as an "aircraft" and as a "plane."

They never called it a "drone." They never called it a "helicopter."

But then, I'm talking to a deranged nut who _thinks_ helicopters are planes.


----------



## jc456

Faun said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> dude get a grip
> 
> shot dead for trespassing
> 
> really you tyrant
> 
> every other day you call that federal land
> 
> the publics land
> 
> you are a puke
> y
> 
> 
> 
> How sad.  You *still* don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't shot dead for trespassing.
> 
> He was being arrested for trespassing.
> 
> But as he said in the days leading up to his death, he wasn't going to let the police arrest him alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> your opinion thats all you have
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's all any of us have. Only unlike yours, mine isn't rooted in insanity.
> 
> The guy was being arrested. He himself said he wouldn't be taken alive. Then, while police standing maybe 15 feet away from him with their guns pointed at him, he lowers his hands in a "reaching" motion, knowing how the police would react.
> 
> G'head, convince me you're not batshit insane....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly, and opinions are not fact.  Have a nice day!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My day is off to a fun start; watching you retards parade your idiocy.
Click to expand...

I couldn't have said that any better, your style of stupid is truly amazing.


----------



## Faun

jc456 said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> How sad.  You *still* don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't shot dead for trespassing.
> 
> He was being arrested for trespassing.
> 
> But as he said in the days leading up to his death, he wasn't going to let the police arrest him alive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> your opinion thats all you have
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's all any of us have. Only unlike yours, mine isn't rooted in insanity.
> 
> The guy was being arrested. He himself said he wouldn't be taken alive. Then, while police standing maybe 15 feet away from him with their guns pointed at him, he lowers his hands in a "reaching" motion, knowing how the police would react.
> 
> G'head, convince me you're not batshit insane....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> exactly, and opinions are not fact.  Have a nice day!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My day is off to a fun start; watching you retards parade your idiocy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I couldn't have said that any better, your style of stupid is truly amazing.
Click to expand...

Spits the fucking retard who posts a picture of a plane after saying he thinks it "hovered" in the FBI video.


----------



## Dot Com

update!!!

retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder


----------



## Faun

Dot Com said:


> update!!!
> 
> retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder


They're being held hostage at the refuge.



Too fucking funny.


----------



## Dot Com

this is "unusual"

'Hands Up, Don't Shoot' Lego Figure Of Dead Oregon Militant For Sale On Ebay


----------



## bodecea

Dot Com said:


> update!!!
> 
> retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder


Great comments after the article.


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> why, can you give me the plane that can do 60 and fly?
> 
> 
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> so does the FBI own them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
> derp, derp!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> from the link
> 
> FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.
> 
> the standoff would be a difficult case
> 
> --LOL
Click to expand...

No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Is there still any question about why I said the Feds fucked up with their ambush and killing? You don't put out a fire by poring gas on it.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

bodecea said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> update!!!
> 
> retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder
> 
> 
> 
> Great comments after the article.
Click to expand...


I liked the " Camp Baggadicks"  the best.


----------



## jc456

so still no video that shows the old fart reached into his jacket, but I did notice he was shot in the back. At least until there is audio to disprove that.  therefore, this is blatant murder, right guys on the libturd view?

If the dude in Chicago was shot down with an open blade in his hand, and you all claim the cop murdered the kid, then they are the same. A threat isn't a threat with a weapon.

this also includes the cop from Ferguson who you all claim murdered the kid there.  No threat, murder.

So, I'm sure you will all agree then that this old fart was murdered.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just did, you stupid ass. J3 Cub, 38 mph stall speed, and there are some that are STOL equipped that can do significantly better than that.
> 
> 
> 
> so does the FBI own them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
> derp, derp!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> from the link
> 
> FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.
> 
> the standoff would be a difficult case
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.
Click to expand...


near by --LOL

a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area 

linger around and then return home 

but thanks


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> so still no video that shows the old fart reached into his jacket, but I did notice he was shot in the back. At least until there is audio to disprove that.  therefore, this is blatant murder, right guys on the libturd view?
> 
> If the dude in Chicago was shot down with an open blade in his hand, and you all claim the cop murdered the kid, then they are the same. A threat isn't a threat with a weapon.
> 
> this also includes the cop from Ferguson who you all claim murdered the kid there.  No threat, murder.
> 
> So, I'm sure you will all agree then that this old fart was murdered.




they say he was shot 9 times 

where he reached was not where the opening of his inside pocket was


----------



## jon_berzerk

9thIDdoc said:


> Is there still any question about why I said the Feds fucked up with their ambush and killing? You don't put out a fire by poring gas on it.




exactly


----------



## jc456

jon_berzerk said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so still no video that shows the old fart reached into his jacket, but I did notice he was shot in the back. At least until there is audio to disprove that.  therefore, this is blatant murder, right guys on the libturd view?
> 
> If the dude in Chicago was shot down with an open blade in his hand, and you all claim the cop murdered the kid, then they are the same. A threat isn't a threat with a weapon.
> 
> this also includes the cop from Ferguson who you all claim murdered the kid there.  No threat, murder.
> 
> So, I'm sure you will all agree then that this old fart was murdered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they say he was shot 9 times
> 
> where he reached was not where the opening of his inside pocket was
Click to expand...

I know you could see that.  so I never saw him reach for the inside of his jacket.


----------



## jon_berzerk

jc456 said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so still no video that shows the old fart reached into his jacket, but I did notice he was shot in the back. At least until there is audio to disprove that.  therefore, this is blatant murder, right guys on the libturd view?
> 
> If the dude in Chicago was shot down with an open blade in his hand, and you all claim the cop murdered the kid, then they are the same. A threat isn't a threat with a weapon.
> 
> this also includes the cop from Ferguson who you all claim murdered the kid there.  No threat, murder.
> 
> So, I'm sure you will all agree then that this old fart was murdered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they say he was shot 9 times
> 
> where he reached was not where the opening of his inside pocket was
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know you could see that.  so I never saw him reach for the inside of his jacket.
Click to expand...


i posted a picture of lavoy with his jacket open

the one  he was shot in 

and the opening for his inside pocket is by his chest

not waist


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jon_berzerk said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> so does the FBI own them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
> derp, derp!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> from the link
> 
> FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.
> 
> the standoff would be a difficult case
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
Click to expand...


Oregon standoff: FBI stages at Burns airport
Only thirty miles to where they were stopped. 
I doubt it was a 172 probably at least a 182.
There is no room to operate the camera gear in a 172 at all.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Hutch Starskey said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
> 
> 
> 
> FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
> derp, derp!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> from the link
> 
> FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.
> 
> the standoff would be a difficult case
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: FBI stages at Burns airport
> 
> Derp!
Click to expand...


wow impressive 

airplanes have a limited amount of time and distance 

they can legally cover 

if they are loaded up with camera gear 

all the less time to linger about 

and stay within the legal flying requirements 

that airport was quite a distance from the ambush site


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jon_berzerk said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
> derp, derp!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from the link
> 
> FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.
> 
> the standoff would be a difficult case
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: FBI stages at Burns airport
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wow impressive
> 
> airplanes have a limited amount of time and distance
> 
> they can legally cover
> 
> if they are loaded up with camera gear
> 
> all the less time to linger about
> 
> and stay within the legal flying requirements
> 
> that airport was quite a distance from the ambush site
Click to expand...


Thirty miles away. About a twenty minute flight. A 172 can carry two hours of gas. What " legal requirement" doesn't allow for a full tank of gas?


----------



## Dot Com

Hutch Starskey said:


> bodecea said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> update!!!
> 
> retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder
> 
> 
> 
> Great comments after the article.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I liked the " Camp Baggadicks"  the best.
Click to expand...

lol


----------



## Camp

jon_berzerk said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
> derp, derp!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from the link
> 
> FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.
> 
> the standoff would be a difficult case
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: FBI stages at Burns airport
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wow impressive
> 
> airplanes have a limited amount of time and distance
> 
> they can legally cover
> 
> if they are loaded up with camera gear
> 
> all the less time to linger about
> 
> and stay within the legal flying requirements
> 
> that airport was quite a distance from the ambush site
Click to expand...

Ya, but it wasn't an ambush site. That is as silly as saying it was quite a distance even from the destination of the little town of John Day. Even small planes can handle a 50 or 60-mile flight. Your reasoning on this topic gets more goofy every day.  You know the FBI may have had more than one plane, don't you? You know, so if the first plane was running low on fuel after a few hours it could call on a replacement plane with a full tank of fuel.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Hutch Starskey said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> from the link
> 
> FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.
> 
> the standoff would be a difficult case
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: FBI stages at Burns airport
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wow impressive
> 
> airplanes have a limited amount of time and distance
> 
> they can legally cover
> 
> if they are loaded up with camera gear
> 
> all the less time to linger about
> 
> and stay within the legal flying requirements
> 
> that airport was quite a distance from the ambush site
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thirty miles away. About a twenty minute flight. A 172 can carry two hours of gas. What " legal requirement" doesn't allow for a full tank of gas?
Click to expand...

What " legal requirement" doesn't allow for a full tank of gas?

it is not a legal requirement dummy --LOL

it is a physical requirement 

the more you load on the airplane 

passengers firearms filming equipment and such 

the less fuel you carry 

simple as that 

there are legal requirements for fuel on board as well derp


----------



## jon_berzerk

Camp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> from the link
> 
> FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.
> 
> the standoff would be a difficult case
> 
> --LOL
> 
> 
> 
> No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: FBI stages at Burns airport
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wow impressive
> 
> airplanes have a limited amount of time and distance
> 
> they can legally cover
> 
> if they are loaded up with camera gear
> 
> all the less time to linger about
> 
> and stay within the legal flying requirements
> 
> that airport was quite a distance from the ambush site
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya, but it wasn't an ambush site. That is as silly as saying it was quite a distance even from the destination of the little town of John Day. Even small planes can handle a 50 or 60-mile flight. Your reasoning on this topic gets more goofy every day.  You know the FBI may have had more than one plane, don't you? You know, so if the first plane was running low on fuel after a few hours it could call on a replacement plane with a full tank of fuel.
Click to expand...


first off with flying it isnt the miles flown

it is how long your fuel lasts 

head winds

weight of the airplane

how much fuel you can add

so now you want to throw in more then one plane

to keep observation on one truck

--LOL

it gets less and less economical every post

now wonder our government is so in debt

--LOL

this is why the drone is such a better idea


----------



## teddyearp

TyroneSlothrop said:


> Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward accused militias Monday of harassing law enforcement officials and federal employees. Though there haven't been physical threats, he said, the alleged behavior is clearly meant to intimidate
> Sheriff handling Oregon standoff denounces intimidation of law enforcement…



Dipshit.  Your article is from January 11.  Ancient news by now in relation to this situation.  Try again, fuckwad.


----------



## teddyearp

Dot Com said:


> update!!!
> 
> retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder



I hit agree on this as I think they should have left long ago by now.  By staying they are undermining the cause and though they think they are 'staying the course' they are helping it get far off course.

IMHO, I do not think it helped the situation with the last four at all for the .gov to have them named in the indictments though.  It did help the .gov in so much as it will give more weight to their prosecution of Ammon and the rest.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> update!!!
> 
> retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hit agree on this as I think they should have left long ago by now.  By staying they are undermining the cause and though they think they are 'staying the course' they are helping it get far off course.
> 
> IMHO, I do not think it helped the situation with the last four at all for the .gov to have them named in the indictments though.  It did help the .gov in so much as it will give more weight to their prosecution of Ammon and the rest.
Click to expand...

How can they leave? They're _*"hostages!"*_

LOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## teddyearp

Oh for fucks sake people! It has been a total waste to see the last, what, ten pages wasted on what type of aircraft was used.  At first, most took it and argued hard that it was an air*plane*, and have been arguing to death what kind could fly like that, myself included.

I and others have looked back and found the FBI said it was an air*craft!* And that my folks, covers all the bases.  Give it a farking rest and get over it already!


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> Spot the disconnect...
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and stay within the legal flying requirements
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is not a legal requirement dummy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> update!!!
> 
> retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hit agree on this as I think they should have left long ago by now.  By staying they are undermining the cause and though they think they are 'staying the course' they are helping it get far off course.
> 
> IMHO, I do not think it helped the situation with the last four at all for the .gov to have them named in the indictments though.  It did help the .gov in so much as it will give more weight to their prosecution of Ammon and the rest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can they leave? They're _*"hostages!"*_
> 
> LOLOLOLOLOL
Click to expand...


Please do not include my post when you laugh about them calling themselves hostages.  I said nothing at all of the sort.


----------



## jon_berzerk

t it


Hutch Starskey said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> fbi surveillance planes - Google Search
> 
> Derp!
> 
> 
> 
> FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
> derp, derp!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> from the link
> 
> FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.
> 
> the standoff would be a difficult case
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: FBI stages at Burns airport
> Only thirty miles to where they were stopped.
> I doubt it was a 172 probably at least a 182.
> There is no room to operate the camera gear in a 172 at all.
Click to expand...



the highway patrol often uses a 172 

usually the Cessna 172 xp


----------



## teddyearp

jon_berzerk said:


> the highway patrol often uses a 172
> 
> usually the Cessna 172 xp



Please.  They said it was an aircraft.  And that covers anything they could have had up there.  OK?


----------



## jon_berzerk

teddyearp said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> update!!!
> 
> retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hit agree on this as I think they should have left long ago by now.  By staying they are undermining the cause and though they think they are 'staying the course' they are helping it get far off course.
> 
> IMHO, I do not think it helped the situation with the last four at all for the .gov to have them named in the indictments though.  It did help the .gov in so much as it will give more weight to their prosecution of Ammon and the rest.
Click to expand...


-


teddyearp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> the highway patrol often uses a 172
> 
> usually the Cessna 172 xp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please.  They said it was an aircraft.  And that covers anything they could have had up there.  OK?
Click to expand...



indeed 

not much is going to happen until 

the investigation is completed and made public


----------



## jon_berzerk

teddyearp said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> update!!!
> 
> retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hit agree on this as I think they should have left long ago by now.  By staying they are undermining the cause and though they think they are 'staying the course' they are helping it get far off course.
> 
> IMHO, I do not think it helped the situation with the last four at all for the .gov to have them named in the indictments though.  It did help the .gov in so much as it will give more weight to their prosecution of Ammon and the rest.
Click to expand...



wonder why the feds has not taken them in yet


----------



## teddyearp

Now on to the shooting, yes again.  I do not hold much truck with a bullet smoking, but a firearm will.  If you look at the video I posted, you can see the officer firing his rifle at Finnicum.  The 'smoke' of it firing can be seen by the sudden and brief brightening of the snow under the muzzle of it.

And more incriminating is that even though you folks say it was a good shoot because they "knew he had a firearm", in any other officer involved shooting I have seen, the firearm should be in clear view before the 'perp' should be fired upon.  And there was certainly enough officers there to maintain that level of engagement(?), wasn't there?


----------



## Vandalshandle

Have they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Oh for fucks sake people! It has been a total waste to see the last, what, ten pages wasted on what type of aircraft was used.  At first, most took it and argued hard that it was an air*plane*, and have been arguing to death what kind could fly like that, myself included.
> 
> I and others have looked back and found the FBI said it was an air*craft!* And that my folks, covers all the bases.  Give it a farking rest and get over it already!



_The FBI did have a *plane* in the air, and what I am about to show you is a video from that *plane*._


----------



## teddyearp

Vandalshandle said:


> Have they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.



Nice to know that you are just another blood thirsty .gov lap dog.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Spot the disconnect...
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and stay within the legal flying requirements
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is not a legal requirement dummy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> 
> update!!!
> 
> retards still being retards: Yep, The Oregon Standoff Is Still Going -- And If Anything It's Getting Weirder
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I hit agree on this as I think they should have left long ago by now.  By staying they are undermining the cause and though they think they are 'staying the course' they are helping it get far off course.
> 
> IMHO, I do not think it helped the situation with the last four at all for the .gov to have them named in the indictments though.  It did help the .gov in so much as it will give more weight to their prosecution of Ammon and the rest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How can they leave? They're _*"hostages!"*_
> 
> LOLOLOLOLOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please do not include my post when you laugh about them calling themselves hostages.  I said nothing at all of the sort.
Click to expand...

TFB


----------



## teddyearp

And in other news, I posted earlier about all comms being cut off to the last four.  Well now apparently they have been able to get out.  Hmm, perhaps the FBI is monitoring all possible communications *and opinions* about this incidence.  

So here's another interesting thing.  Before I post this link, I do not hold much truck with the sensationalist way that Santilli makes his 'living', and would never contribute to his cause. but this gives me pause as well:


So this is cool?


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> TFB



Thank you.  I used to think you had some sort of reason and were capable of independent thought.  Now I know otherwise.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> the highway patrol often uses a 172
> 
> usually the Cessna 172 xp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please.  They said it was an aircraft.  And that covers anything they could have had up there.  OK?
Click to expand...




teddyearp said:


> Now on to the shooting, yes again.  I do not hold much truck with a bullet smoking, but a firearm will.  If you look at the video I posted, you can see the officer firing his rifle at Finnicum.  The 'smoke' of it firing can be seen by the sudden and brief brightening of the snow under the muzzle of it.
> 
> And more incriminating is that even though you folks say it was a good shoot because they "knew he had a firearm", in any other officer involved shooting I have seen, the firearm should be in clear view before the 'perp' should be fired upon.  And there was certainly enough officers there to maintain that level of engagement(?), wasn't there?


No mention here of having to see a gun before resorting to deadly force....

*§161.219¹* Limitations on use of deadly physical force in defense of a person

Notwithstanding the provisions of ORS 161.209 (Use of physical force in defense of a person), a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person unless the person reasonably believes that the other person is:

(1) Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person; or
(2) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling; or
(3) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person. [1971 c.743 §23]​


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> TFB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.  I used to think you had some sort of reason and were capable of independent thought.  Now I know otherwise.
Click to expand...


----------



## Vandalshandle

teddyearp said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to know that you are just another blood thirsty .gov lap dog.
Click to expand...


Actually, law abiding citizens everywhere have been more than patient with these assholes.


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jon_berzerk said:


> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: FBI stages at Burns airport
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wow impressive
> 
> airplanes have a limited amount of time and distance
> 
> they can legally cover
> 
> if they are loaded up with camera gear
> 
> all the less time to linger about
> 
> and stay within the legal flying requirements
> 
> that airport was quite a distance from the ambush site
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thirty miles away. About a twenty minute flight. A 172 can carry two hours of gas. What " legal requirement" doesn't allow for a full tank of gas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What " legal requirement" doesn't allow for a full tank of gas?
> 
> it is not a legal requirement dummy --LOL
> 
> it is a physical requirement
> 
> the more you load on the airplane
> 
> passengers firearms filming equipment and such
> 
> the less fuel you carry
> 
> simple as that
> 
> there are legal requirements for fuel on board as well derp
Click to expand...




jon_berzerk said:


> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks



Like I said, wtf are you talking about " legal requirements"?  What is a " legal" amount of fuel?


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jon_berzerk said:


> it is not a legal requirement dummy --LOL
> 
> it is a physical requirement





jon_berzerk said:


> there are legal requirements for fuel on board as well derp


----------



## Hutch Starskey

jon_berzerk said:


> t it
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> FBI uses drones for surveillance in U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
> derp, derp!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from the link
> 
> FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged the law enforcement agency uses drone aircraft in the United States for surveillance in certain difficult cases.
> 
> the standoff would be a difficult case
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it wouldn't. There is an airport nearby and the FBI uses a section of it as a staging area.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: FBI stages at Burns airport
> Only thirty miles to where they were stopped.
> I doubt it was a 172 probably at least a 182.
> There is no room to operate the camera gear in a 172 at all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> the highway patrol often uses a 172
> 
> usually the Cessna 172 xp
Click to expand...


Except we aren't addressing the highway patrol clocking speeders but rather the FBI conducting surveillence with state of the art gear.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Hutch Starskey said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hutch Starskey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oregon standoff: FBI stages at Burns airport
> 
> Derp!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wow impressive
> 
> airplanes have a limited amount of time and distance
> 
> they can legally cover
> 
> if they are loaded up with camera gear
> 
> all the less time to linger about
> 
> and stay within the legal flying requirements
> 
> that airport was quite a distance from the ambush site
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thirty miles away. About a twenty minute flight. A 172 can carry two hours of gas. What " legal requirement" doesn't allow for a full tank of gas?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What " legal requirement" doesn't allow for a full tank of gas?
> 
> it is not a legal requirement dummy --LOL
> 
> it is a physical requirement
> 
> the more you load on the airplane
> 
> passengers firearms filming equipment and such
> 
> the less fuel you carry
> 
> simple as that
> 
> there are legal requirements for fuel on board as well derp
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> near by --LOL
> 
> a 172 could not carry legally enough fuel to fly from burns to the area
> 
> linger around and then return home
> 
> but thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I said, wtf are you talking about " legal requirements"?  What is a " legal" amount of fuel?
Click to expand...


there are legal requirements on how much reserve fuel is on board 
+
a requirement on the reserve being able to fly to an alternative airport 

based on time 

im sure you could have figured that out yourself wtf is wrong with you


----------



## jon_berzerk

Hutch Starskey said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is not a legal requirement dummy --LOL
> 
> it is a physical requirement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> there are legal requirements for fuel on board as well derp
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

derp


----------



## teddyearp

Vandalshandle said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to know that you are just another blood thirsty .gov lap dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, law abiding citizens everywhere have been more than patient with these assholes.
Click to expand...


Just a reminder to you and the rest who wanted this to end in bloodshed.  Be careful for what you ask for:







I did not condone this, but it did happen and that's a fact.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to know that you are just another blood thirsty .gov lap dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, law abiding citizens everywhere have been more than patient with these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just a reminder to you and the rest who wanted this to end in bloodshed.  Be careful for what you ask for:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not condone this, but it did happen and that's a fact.
Click to expand...

Rightards lives matter, is that what you're saying?


----------



## Camp

teddyearp said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to know that you are just another blood thirsty .gov lap dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, law abiding citizens everywhere have been more than patient with these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just a reminder to you and the rest who wanted this to end in bloodshed.  Be careful for what you ask for:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not condone this, but it did happen and that's a fact.
Click to expand...

Gee, thanks for the reminder teddy. Most people probably forget what domestic terrorist from the right wing militia movement and sovereign citizen types were capable of. Guess we should let them have their way and let them abuse us because of our fear of them. Give the Bundy's and the militia's freedom to take what they want and do whatever they want and just cower in fear as they rob us.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop

*The Science of the Conservative Brain: Fearful and Closed Minded!*


----------



## Vandalshandle

teddyearp said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to know that you are just another blood thirsty .gov lap dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, law abiding citizens everywhere have been more than patient with these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just a reminder to you and the rest who wanted this to end in bloodshed.  Be careful for what you ask for:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not condone this, but it did happen and that's a fact.
Click to expand...


Teddy, that is the most asinine post I have seen in months on this board. Your point is WHAT, exactly? We should enable domestic terrorists, or they might kill us?

You are on "ignore", pal. That was *disgusting*. Anyone who thinks like you is part of the problem, NOT part of the solution.


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> Rightards lives matter, is that what you're saying?



I try not to wallow in the slop of name calling.


----------



## teddyearp

Vandalshandle said:


> Teddy, that is the most asinine post I have seen in months on this board. Your point is WHAT, exactly? We should enable domestic terrorists, or they might kill us?
> 
> You are on "ignore", pal. That was *disgusting*. Anyone who thinks like you is part of the problem, NOT part of the solution.



Oh, but there's not a fucking thing wrong with this diatribe by you then:



Vandalshandle said:


> Have *they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet*? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.



Hypocrite.  Oh but wait . . . .




























this is me ignoring you.


----------



## Skylar

teddyearp said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy, that is the most asinine post I have seen in months on this board. Your point is WHAT, exactly? We should enable domestic terrorists, or they might kill us?
> 
> You are on "ignore", pal. That was *disgusting*. Anyone who thinks like you is part of the problem, NOT part of the solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, but there's not a fucking thing wrong with this diatribe by you then:
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have *they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet*? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hypocrite.  Oh but wait . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is me ignoring you.
Click to expand...


Nope. The 4 freeloaders are apparently being put on time out. And they're desperate for attention. 



> You see this PT Cruiser? It’s government. Government PT Cruiser. But you know what? This is now the Harney County Resource Center. I want you to see this—FBI, Feds. It’s the Harney County Resource Center. And you know what? We’re gonna use every resource we have here. And I think we have every right to do that. You know? I’m tired of you guys telling us what we can and can’t do. Fortifying, you say. It’s stupid. Making it illegal to make fortifying for barracks. I can’t believe. It’s an outrage. I’m outraged right now.
> 
> So here we are. We’re just cruising along and I want the FBI to see this, you know, I want the FBI to see this. Because this is how I want to say, “Screw you,” piss off your little charges. You see this? It’s a US government vehicle. It’s a US government vehicle and I think I’m gonna take it on a little joy ride. Yeah! I’m gonna start this baby up. Now you got another charge on me, FBI. I am driving your vehicle! You see this? I’m driving your vehicle right now. You gonna put another charge on me, here—here’s another charge for you. Driving a US vehicle without permission.
> 
> Remaining occupiers in Oregon reduced to stunts, taunting FBI by driving federal vehicle



If I had to sum up the 'militia' at this point in one word, it would be...

Petulant?


----------



## Andylusion

Faun said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to know that you are just another blood thirsty .gov lap dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, law abiding citizens everywhere have been more than patient with these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just a reminder to you and the rest who wanted this to end in bloodshed.  Be careful for what you ask for:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not condone this, but it did happen and that's a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rightards lives matter, is that what you're saying?
Click to expand...


So people who disagree with you, their lives don't matter.   Got it.

It's people who speak like you, that end up causing the revolution, that ends up with yourselves being murdered.  Just saying...


----------



## Faun

Andylusion said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have they killed the other 4 trespassers and freeloaders  yet? They need to take care of that, so we can move on to other matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to know that you are just another blood thirsty .gov lap dog.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, law abiding citizens everywhere have been more than patient with these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just a reminder to you and the rest who wanted this to end in bloodshed.  Be careful for what you ask for:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not condone this, but it did happen and that's a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rightards lives matter, is that what you're saying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So people who disagree with you, their lives don't matter.   Got it.
> 
> It's people who speak like you, that end up causing the revolution, that ends up with yourselves being murdered.  Just saying...
Click to expand...

That's as stupid as telling racists they will cause riots by blacks which will kill them. But even worse for your lunacy, I didn't even say what you _think_ I said. 

All lives matter. Even rightards. I was poking fun at one who was pointing out the results of extreme rightardedness.


----------



## Andylusion

Faun said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to know that you are just another blood thirsty .gov lap dog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, law abiding citizens everywhere have been more than patient with these assholes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just a reminder to you and the rest who wanted this to end in bloodshed.  Be careful for what you ask for:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not condone this, but it did happen and that's a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rightards lives matter, is that what you're saying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So people who disagree with you, their lives don't matter.   Got it.
> 
> It's people who speak like you, that end up causing the revolution, that ends up with yourselves being murdered.  Just saying...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's as stupid as telling racists they will cause riots by blacks which will kill them. But even worse for your lunacy, I didn't even say what you _think_ I said.
> 
> All lives matter. Even rightards. I was poking fun at one who was pointing out the results of extreme rightardedness.
Click to expand...


So you are saying that the LA Riots were not caused by claimed instances of Racism?

You moronic leftists.  You can't even get your own position right, let alone argue with any other.


----------



## Old Rocks

Well, old man Clive is now in an Oregon jail, the four at the refuge will be in the morning, and this idiocy is finally getting wrapped up. Now, all those that were involved, need to have their background ran, and those that were packing firearms, with a felony record, need to join the Bundy's for free room and board.


----------



## Andylusion

Old Rocks said:


> Well, old man Clive is now in an Oregon jail, the four at the refuge will be in the morning, and this idiocy is finally getting wrapped up. Now, all those that were involved, need to have their background ran, and those that were packing firearms, with a felony record, need to join the Bundy's for free room and board.



Oh no buddy.    I'm convinced that this is just the beginning.


----------



## Old Rocks

By the way, regards to Sheriff Palmer of Grant County who is busy trying to explain to his militia buddies as to why he set up the occupiers. I think were you a fly on the wall you would have heard a conversation between the FBI and Palmer that went something like this;

FBI, "We want you to issue an invitation to the locos to come and speak here in John Day.

Palmer, "No way am I working with you!"

FBI, "Here, Sheriff, have a look at these pictures. You look real good in them"

Palmer, "Yes Sir! I'll do what ever you want, Sir!"


----------



## Old Rocks

Andylusion said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, old man Clive is now in an Oregon jail, the four at the refuge will be in the morning, and this idiocy is finally getting wrapped up. Now, all those that were involved, need to have their background ran, and those that were packing firearms, with a felony record, need to join the Bundy's for free room and board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no buddy.    I'm convinced that this is just the beginning.
Click to expand...

LOL. Go ahead, goofy locos, come to Oregon, we have lot's of jail space for you idiots. LOL


----------



## Faun

Andylusion said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, law abiding citizens everywhere have been more than patient with these assholes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a reminder to you and the rest who wanted this to end in bloodshed.  Be careful for what you ask for:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not condone this, but it did happen and that's a fact.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rightards lives matter, is that what you're saying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So people who disagree with you, their lives don't matter.   Got it.
> 
> It's people who speak like you, that end up causing the revolution, that ends up with yourselves being murdered.  Just saying...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's as stupid as telling racists they will cause riots by blacks which will kill them. But even worse for your lunacy, I didn't even say what you _think_ I said.
> 
> All lives matter. Even rightards. I was poking fun at one who was pointing out the results of extreme rightardedness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are saying that the LA Riots were not caused by claimed instances of Racism?
> 
> You moronic leftists.  You can't even get your own position right, let alone argue with any other.
Click to expand...

I said nothing about the LA riots.Just goes to show how out of touch with reality you are.


----------



## Andylusion

Old Rocks said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, old man Clive is now in an Oregon jail, the four at the refuge will be in the morning, and this idiocy is finally getting wrapped up. Now, all those that were involved, need to have their background ran, and those that were packing firearms, with a felony record, need to join the Bundy's for free room and board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no buddy.    I'm convinced that this is just the beginning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Go ahead, goofy locos, come to Oregon, we have lot's of jail space for you idiots. LOL
Click to expand...


Me?  I'm not going anywhere.

I'm just an observer.   There is way too much anger out there, for this to be the end.  I betcha.   Just my hunch.   Could be wrong.  Been wrong many times.  But the vibe I'm getting from the far west is, they are have had it with leftwingers who don't know jack about their state, likely never been to it, tell them what they can do with their land.

And worse... they are wrong about that.   Federal government isn't supposed to be owning 85% of a state.  That's now how our constitution was written.  We're not supposed to be a Feudal system.


----------



## Andylusion

Faun said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a reminder to you and the rest who wanted this to end in bloodshed.  Be careful for what you ask for:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not condone this, but it did happen and that's a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Rightards lives matter, is that what you're saying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So people who disagree with you, their lives don't matter.   Got it.
> 
> It's people who speak like you, that end up causing the revolution, that ends up with yourselves being murdered.  Just saying...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's as stupid as telling racists they will cause riots by blacks which will kill them. But even worse for your lunacy, I didn't even say what you _think_ I said.
> 
> All lives matter. Even rightards. I was poking fun at one who was pointing out the results of extreme rightardedness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are saying that the LA Riots were not caused by claimed instances of Racism?
> 
> You moronic leftists.  You can't even get your own position right, let alone argue with any other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said nothing about the LA riots.Just goes to show how out of touch with reality you are.
Click to expand...


"That's as stupid as telling racists they will cause riots by blacks"

LA Riots?

"I said nothing about the LA riots.Just goes to show how out of touch with reality you are."

You have now identified yourself as an idiot.  Anyone can see this clearly.


----------



## Faun

Andylusion said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rightards lives matter, is that what you're saying?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So people who disagree with you, their lives don't matter.   Got it.
> 
> It's people who speak like you, that end up causing the revolution, that ends up with yourselves being murdered.  Just saying...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's as stupid as telling racists they will cause riots by blacks which will kill them. But even worse for your lunacy, I didn't even say what you _think_ I said.
> 
> All lives matter. Even rightards. I was poking fun at one who was pointing out the results of extreme rightardedness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are saying that the LA Riots were not caused by claimed instances of Racism?
> 
> You moronic leftists.  You can't even get your own position right, let alone argue with any other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said nothing about the LA riots.Just goes to show how out of touch with reality you are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "That's as stupid as telling racists they will cause riots by blacks"
> 
> LA Riots?
> 
> "I said nothing about the LA riots.Just goes to show how out of touch with reality you are."
> 
> You have now identified yourself as an idiot.  Anyone can see this clearly.
Click to expand...

I was talking about your moronic comment, not the LA riots. You idiotically said comments from people like me will lead to me being murdered.

I used a hypothetical riot as an analogy. How are your comments going to lead to you being murdered by riots that occurred long ago?

My analogy sailed clear over your pointy head. I get it.


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a reminder to you and the rest who wanted this to end in bloodshed.  Be careful for what you ask for:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not condone this, but it did happen and that's a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Rightards lives matter, is that what you're saying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So people who disagree with you, their lives don't matter.   Got it.
> 
> It's people who speak like you, that end up causing the revolution, that ends up with yourselves being murdered.  Just saying...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's as stupid as telling racists they will cause riots by blacks which will kill them. But even worse for your lunacy, I didn't even say what you _think_ I said.
> 
> All lives matter. Even rightards. I was poking fun at one who was pointing out the results of extreme rightardedness.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are saying that the LA Riots were not caused by claimed instances of Racism?
> 
> You moronic leftists.  You can't even get your own position right, let alone argue with any other.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I said nothing about the LA riots.Just goes to show how out of touch with reality you are.
Click to expand...




Old Rocks said:


> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, old man Clive is now in an Oregon jail, the four at the refuge will be in the morning, and this idiocy is finally getting wrapped up. Now, all those that were involved, need to have their background ran, and those that were packing firearms, with a felony record, need to join the Bundy's for free room and board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no buddy.    I'm convinced that this is just the beginning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Go ahead, goofy locos, come to Oregon, we have lot's of jail space for you idiots. LOL
Click to expand...

This is the Grant County sheriff. Totally different story. He told them he would protect them if they moved laterally to Grant county. Thats why the feds ambushed them. They knew theyd be fuck out of luck again because they have NO AUTHORITY, and they know it. Grant County Sheriff Glenn Palmer’s speech as ‘sheriff of the year’


----------



## koshergrl

This is why Santilli is in jail....he dares to film people confronting the fbi, thus preventing the fbi from firing on them....just as seim did with the last night and morning at the refuge. Nothing chaps official dicks ass cheeks like being identified and filmed when they're engaged in a criminal endeavor. 

Even the commie government employees wont show their faces when they stage their fake rallis. They hide behind their signS. Theyre fucking scum, I hope the feds squish them with their tanks, if they ever pull out.


----------



## koshergrl

Here are feds, dressed as disgruntled locals protesting the militia, busted by santilli.


----------



## koshergrl

Feds refused to negotiate because they wanted a violent conflict. Ammond was ready to leave. The feds refused to talk to him and, in fact, never asked or told him to leave. Because they know, THEY DONT HAVE THAT POWER. This is the fucking fbi..an unconstitutional military department of the fucking EXECUTIVE branch of our government. They should even exist..certainly not as a military FORCE, occupying towns and killing civilians.


----------



## Old Rocks

Kosher, you are certainly stupid. Sheriff Palmer set the Bundy's up. Why the hell do you think he invited them to Grant County? 

Palmer has been trying to create a situation in Grant County for years where he is the only law there. No feds, or State Patrol allowed to enforce laws anywhere in Grant County. That way, if you wanted to set up a little 'operation' somewhere in Grant County, all you would have to do is establish an 'understanding' with the sheriff. I bet that there are few of these 'understandings' already in operation. And the FBI presented Sheriff Palmer with some photos, and said, "This is what you will do concerning the Bundy's", and Sheriff Bundy said "Yes Sir!".


----------



## Old Rocks

I think that Mr. Fry gave us an excellent example of the mental abilities of this bunch of felons that you are so slavishly defending. Maybe you can tell Fry and the rest how much you admire them in about 20 years when they get out of the pen.


----------



## Arianrhod

Seems the Mighty Survivalists don't even know how to bury their own shit:

Occupiers Left Smelly Surprise at Oregon Refuge


----------



## jon_berzerk

*Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say*

They also announced they had evidence that an FBI agent fired at Finicum's truck but didn't disclose the shots. The agent and four of his colleagues then took "specific actions" afterward, they said, but offered no other details.

Nelson and Norris alerted federal officials to their findings. The FBI agents now are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general.

Former FBI agents and criminal justice experts have said they're baffled why elite FBI agents might hide the shots.

Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say

they shouldnt be "baffled" it is quite obvious they fired on him when he had his hands up


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> I think that Mr. Fry gave us an excellent example of the mental abilities of this bunch of felons that you are so slavishly defending. Maybe you can tell Fry and the rest how much you admire them in about 20 years when they get out of the pen.



I have said as well as those who negotiated him out of there that Mr Fry is not a spokesman for this movement.  But if you say so . . . 

How about these 'occupy' folks, since some of you seem to think so much of the 'occupy' movement:


----------



## koshergrl

jon_berzerk said:


> *Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say*
> 
> They also announced they had evidence that an FBI agent fired at Finicum's truck but didn't disclose the shots. The agent and four of his colleagues then took "specific actions" afterward, they said, but offered no other details.
> 
> Nelson and Norris alerted federal officials to their findings. The FBI agents now are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general.
> 
> Former FBI agents and criminal justice experts have said they're baffled why elite FBI agents might hide the shots.
> 
> Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say
> 
> they shouldnt be "baffled" it is quite obvious they fired on him when he had his hands up


 
They hid the shots because they didn't want anybody to know that they were firing at the vehicle, and the occupants, before they even rolled up to the stop. They were also firing in the direction of the staters, who did not know they were going to be firing, and so thought they were being fired at from the occupants of the car.


----------



## Dot Com

Give it arrest Allie. The snacks in the wall gang were guilty as sin

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say*
> 
> They also announced they had evidence that an FBI agent fired at Finicum's truck but didn't disclose the shots. The agent and four of his colleagues then took "specific actions" afterward, they said, but offered no other details.
> 
> Nelson and Norris alerted federal officials to their findings. The FBI agents now are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general.
> 
> Former FBI agents and criminal justice experts have said they're baffled why elite FBI agents might hide the shots.
> 
> Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say
> 
> they shouldnt be "baffled" it is quite obvious they fired on him when he had his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They hid the shots because they didn't want anybody to know that they were firing at the vehicle, and the occupants, before they even rolled up to the stop. They were also firing in the direction of the staters, who did not know they were going to be firing, and so thought they were being fired at from the occupants of the car.
Click to expand...


yes there are at least two shots while his hands are up because one the roof top hole 

the other shot a window out 

how many other shots did they take 

bunch of spineless criminals they are


----------



## koshergrl

Andylusion said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andylusion said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, old man Clive is now in an Oregon jail, the four at the refuge will be in the morning, and this idiocy is finally getting wrapped up. Now, all those that were involved, need to have their background ran, and those that were packing firearms, with a felony record, need to join the Bundy's for free room and board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no buddy.    I'm convinced that this is just the beginning.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Go ahead, goofy locos, come to Oregon, we have lot's of jail space for you idiots. LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Me?  I'm not going anywhere.
> 
> I'm just an observer.   There is way too much anger out there, for this to be the end.  I betcha.   Just my hunch.   Could be wrong.  Been wrong many times.  But the vibe I'm getting from the far west is, they are have had it with leftwingers who don't know jack about their state, likely never been to it, tell them what they can do with their land.
> 
> And worse... they are wrong about that.   Federal government isn't supposed to be owning 85% of a state.  That's now how our constitution was written.  We're not supposed to be a Feudal system.
Click to expand...

 Exactly.

And I'll tell you something... Harney county was infected by the feds decades ago, and the town of Burns has been a federal shithole for as long as I can remember. But Grant County is a totally different population. They have historically loathed and fought with the feds, and have not been occupied by them to the extent that Harney county was. The bullying tactics that the feds take in Harney County will get them dead in Grant County, and they know it. That's why they stopped the protesters from heading that way. Three hundred sympathetic Grant County residents were waiting for them, and had no intention of letting the feds take over THEIR public buildings.


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say*
> 
> They also announced they had evidence that an FBI agent fired at Finicum's truck but didn't disclose the shots. The agent and four of his colleagues then took "specific actions" afterward, they said, but offered no other details.
> 
> Nelson and Norris alerted federal officials to their findings. The FBI agents now are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general.
> 
> Former FBI agents and criminal justice experts have said they're baffled why elite FBI agents might hide the shots.
> 
> Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say
> 
> they shouldnt be "baffled" it is quite obvious they fired on him when he had his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They hid the shots because they didn't want anybody to know that they were firing at the vehicle, and the occupants, before they even rolled up to the stop. They were also firing in the direction of the staters, who did not know they were going to be firing, and so thought they were being fired at from the occupants of the car.
Click to expand...



yes the video from the air clearly shows they have each other in the lines of fire 

as i have posted before this will go down in the law journals as what *NOT *to do


----------



## koshergrl

jon_berzerk said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say*
> 
> They also announced they had evidence that an FBI agent fired at Finicum's truck but didn't disclose the shots. The agent and four of his colleagues then took "specific actions" afterward, they said, but offered no other details.
> 
> Nelson and Norris alerted federal officials to their findings. The FBI agents now are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general.
> 
> Former FBI agents and criminal justice experts have said they're baffled why elite FBI agents might hide the shots.
> 
> Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say
> 
> they shouldnt be "baffled" it is quite obvious they fired on him when he had his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They hid the shots because they didn't want anybody to know that they were firing at the vehicle, and the occupants, before they even rolled up to the stop. They were also firing in the direction of the staters, who did not know they were going to be firing, and so thought they were being fired at from the occupants of the car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes there are at least two shots while his hands are up because one the roof top hole
> 
> the other shot a window out
> 
> how many other shots did they take
> 
> bunch of spineless criminals they are
Click to expand...

 
They were shooting at them at the first stop, too.


----------



## jon_berzerk

koshergrl said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say*
> 
> They also announced they had evidence that an FBI agent fired at Finicum's truck but didn't disclose the shots. The agent and four of his colleagues then took "specific actions" afterward, they said, but offered no other details.
> 
> Nelson and Norris alerted federal officials to their findings. The FBI agents now are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general.
> 
> Former FBI agents and criminal justice experts have said they're baffled why elite FBI agents might hide the shots.
> 
> Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say
> 
> they shouldnt be "baffled" it is quite obvious they fired on him when he had his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They hid the shots because they didn't want anybody to know that they were firing at the vehicle, and the occupants, before they even rolled up to the stop. They were also firing in the direction of the staters, who did not know they were going to be firing, and so thought they were being fired at from the occupants of the car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes there are at least two shots while his hands are up because one the roof top hole
> 
> the other shot a window out
> 
> how many other shots did they take
> 
> bunch of spineless criminals they are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were shooting at them at the first stop, too.
Click to expand...



yes 

and as they approached the road barricade


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say*
> 
> They also announced they had evidence that an FBI agent fired at Finicum's truck but didn't disclose the shots. The agent and four of his colleagues then took "specific actions" afterward, they said, but offered no other details.
> 
> Nelson and Norris alerted federal officials to their findings. The FBI agents now are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general.
> 
> Former FBI agents and criminal justice experts have said they're baffled why elite FBI agents might hide the shots.
> 
> Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say
> 
> they shouldnt be "baffled" it is quite obvious they fired on him when he had his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They hid the shots because they didn't want anybody to know that they were firing at the vehicle, and the occupants, before they even rolled up to the stop. They were also firing in the direction of the staters, who did not know they were going to be firing, and so thought they were being fired at from the occupants of the car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes there are at least two shots while his hands are up because one the roof top hole
> 
> the other shot a window out
> 
> how many other shots did they take
> 
> bunch of spineless criminals they are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were shooting at them at the first stop, too.
Click to expand...

There would never have been a shot fired had they just got out of the car when they were first pulled over and turned themselves in.

But then, that was never gonna happen with Lavoy, now was it? He was pretty clear he would not be taken alive.


----------



## Vandalshandle

Lavoy is not dead. He appeared in front of his militia friends three days later. At first, they doubted him, but he showed them his bullet hole. He then ascended to heaven,


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say*
> 
> They also announced they had evidence that an FBI agent fired at Finicum's truck but didn't disclose the shots. The agent and four of his colleagues then took "specific actions" afterward, they said, but offered no other details.
> 
> Nelson and Norris alerted federal officials to their findings. The FBI agents now are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general.
> 
> Former FBI agents and criminal justice experts have said they're baffled why elite FBI agents might hide the shots.
> 
> Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say
> 
> they shouldnt be "baffled" it is quite obvious they fired on him when he had his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They hid the shots because they didn't want anybody to know that they were firing at the vehicle, and the occupants, before they even rolled up to the stop. They were also firing in the direction of the staters, who did not know they were going to be firing, and so thought they were being fired at from the occupants of the car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes there are at least two shots while his hands are up because one the roof top hole
> 
> the other shot a window out
> 
> how many other shots did they take
> 
> bunch of spineless criminals they are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were shooting at them at the first stop, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There would never have been a shot fired had they just got out of the car when they were first pulled over and turned themselves in.
> 
> But then, that was never gonna happen with Lavoy, now was it? He was pretty clear he would not be taken alive.
Click to expand...

They were firing at the car before it stopped the first time, and they were firing at it when it approached the ambush site as well. Multiple recordings captured it.


----------



## Skylar

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say*
> 
> They also announced they had evidence that an FBI agent fired at Finicum's truck but didn't disclose the shots. The agent and four of his colleagues then took "specific actions" afterward, they said, but offered no other details.
> 
> Nelson and Norris alerted federal officials to their findings. The FBI agents now are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general.
> 
> Former FBI agents and criminal justice experts have said they're baffled why elite FBI agents might hide the shots.
> 
> Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say
> 
> they shouldnt be "baffled" it is quite obvious they fired on him when he had his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They hid the shots because they didn't want anybody to know that they were firing at the vehicle, and the occupants, before they even rolled up to the stop. They were also firing in the direction of the staters, who did not know they were going to be firing, and so thought they were being fired at from the occupants of the car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes there are at least two shots while his hands are up because one the roof top hole
> 
> the other shot a window out
> 
> how many other shots did they take
> 
> bunch of spineless criminals they are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were shooting at them at the first stop, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There would never have been a shot fired had they just got out of the car when they were first pulled over and turned themselves in.
> 
> But then, that was never gonna happen with Lavoy, now was it? He was pretty clear he would not be taken alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were firing at the car before it stopped the first time, and they were firing at it when it approached the ambush site as well. Multiple recordings captured it.
Click to expand...


So Lavoy was fired on ....and then just sat there for 7 minutes?

Um, I call bullshit.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say*
> 
> They also announced they had evidence that an FBI agent fired at Finicum's truck but didn't disclose the shots. The agent and four of his colleagues then took "specific actions" afterward, they said, but offered no other details.
> 
> Nelson and Norris alerted federal officials to their findings. The FBI agents now are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general.
> 
> Former FBI agents and criminal justice experts have said they're baffled why elite FBI agents might hide the shots.
> 
> Bullet casings disappear from LaVoy Finicum shooting scene, sources say
> 
> they shouldnt be "baffled" it is quite obvious they fired on him when he had his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They hid the shots because they didn't want anybody to know that they were firing at the vehicle, and the occupants, before they even rolled up to the stop. They were also firing in the direction of the staters, who did not know they were going to be firing, and so thought they were being fired at from the occupants of the car.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes there are at least two shots while his hands are up because one the roof top hole
> 
> the other shot a window out
> 
> how many other shots did they take
> 
> bunch of spineless criminals they are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were shooting at them at the first stop, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There would never have been a shot fired had they just got out of the car when they were first pulled over and turned themselves in.
> 
> But then, that was never gonna happen with Lavoy, now was it? He was pretty clear he would not be taken alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were firing at the car before it stopped the first time, and they were firing at it when it approached the ambush site as well. Multiple recordings captured it.
Click to expand...

There is absolutely no evidence of that and none of the car's occupants made any such claim when they first gave interviews.


----------



## koshergrl

Faun said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> They hid the shots because they didn't want anybody to know that they were firing at the vehicle, and the occupants, before they even rolled up to the stop. They were also firing in the direction of the staters, who did not know they were going to be firing, and so thought they were being fired at from the occupants of the car.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes there are at least two shots while his hands are up because one the roof top hole
> 
> the other shot a window out
> 
> how many other shots did they take
> 
> bunch of spineless criminals they are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They were shooting at them at the first stop, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There would never have been a shot fired had they just got out of the car when they were first pulled over and turned themselves in.
> 
> But then, that was never gonna happen with Lavoy, now was it? He was pretty clear he would not be taken alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were firing at the car before it stopped the first time, and they were firing at it when it approached the ambush site as well. Multiple recordings captured it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is absolutely no evidence of that and none of the car's occupants made any such claim when they first gave interviews.
Click to expand...

Now you're just flat lying.


----------



## Faun

koshergrl said:


> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes there are at least two shots while his hands are up because one the roof top hole
> 
> the other shot a window out
> 
> how many other shots did they take
> 
> bunch of spineless criminals they are
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They were shooting at them at the first stop, too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There would never have been a shot fired had they just got out of the car when they were first pulled over and turned themselves in.
> 
> But then, that was never gonna happen with Lavoy, now was it? He was pretty clear he would not be taken alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They were firing at the car before it stopped the first time, and they were firing at it when it approached the ambush site as well. Multiple recordings captured it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is absolutely no evidence of that and none of the car's occupants made any such claim when they first gave interviews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you're just flat lying.
Click to expand...

Nope, I'm not lying.

Of course, you could always post proof of your claim ... but then again, you can't since there is no proof they were fired upon before being stopped the first time.

Oh well, ces't la vie.


----------



## teddyearp

UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:

Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts

Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?

The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.


----------



## koshergrl

They acquitted them...there is a second group scheduled to go to trial in February (including Cliven Bundy). They keep meeting to determine whether or not to dismiss the charges, and then putting it off. It's just the courts playing games, keeping them in as long as they can when they know there were no crimes committed.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.


Levoy was killed because he reached for a gun instead of keeping his hands above his head. He'd be alive today and among those acquitted had he done so.


----------



## JakeStarkey

teddyearp said:


> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.


The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.


----------



## peach174

JakeStarkey said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
Click to expand...



The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.


----------



## jc456

JakeStarkey said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
Click to expand...

Murder


----------



## Vandalshandle

peach174 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
Click to expand...


Absolutely! The feds were taking away their rights of armed insurrection of the government, not to mention their right to the theft of the use of public land!


----------



## JakeStarkey

peach174 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
Click to expand...

All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.


----------



## jc456

Vandalshandle said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely! The feds were taking away their rights of armed insurrection of the government, not to mention their right to the theft of the use of public land!
Click to expand...

Acquired, so how's that possible?


----------



## peach174

It was an interesting debate we all had with those on the gov. side and those defending the ranchers and how
those on the gov. side would not accept the possibility that just happened in court.


----------



## JimH52

peach174 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
Click to expand...


Of course, this is a lie.  Oh yeah, has Bundy paid the tax payers back for illegally grazing his cattle on federal land.  Maybe he can pay the after Stump caughs up his income tax returns.


----------



## peach174

JakeStarkey said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
Click to expand...


Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.


----------



## JimH52

peach174 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
> Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.
Click to expand...


What did they violate?  Bundy refused to pay what he owed.


----------



## peach174

JimH52 said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, this is a lie.  Oh yeah, has Bundy paid the tax payers back for illegally grazing his cattle on federal land.  Maybe he can pay the after Stump caughs up his income tax returns.
Click to expand...


And you just made the point very clear. Gov. side argument.
Why has he not been prosecuted for tax evasion?
Much simpler if it were true.


----------



## peach174

JimH52 said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
> Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did they violate?  Bundy refused to pay what he owed.
Click to expand...


Read post # 4293 I'm not a parrot ya know.


----------



## Old Rocks

peach174 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
> Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.
Click to expand...

Link us to what you are talking about. They had grazing leases, not grazing rights. That is public land, not ranchers land. And were the government to sell it off as people like you want them to, it would be the big corporations that would buy the land, and then the ranchers would be paying $20 per unit, instead of the present fee that is under $2 per unit. If the corporations would lease the grazing to them at all. More that likely, they would refuse, and buy up the ranchers land a pennies on the dollar after they went broke for lack of grazing land.


----------



## Vandalshandle

JakeStarkey said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but he showed them!


----------



## JimH52

peach174 said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, this is a lie.  Oh yeah, has Bundy paid the tax payers back for illegally grazing his cattle on federal land.  Maybe he can pay the after Stump caughs up his income tax returns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you just made the point very clear. Gov. side argument.
> Why has he not been prosecuted for tax evasion?
> Much simpler if it were true.
Click to expand...


You ain't so smart, are you?

*Bundy standoff - Wikipedia*



*998–2012: Legal actions*[edit]

_United States v. Bundy_ "arose out of Bundy’s unauthorized grazing of his livestock on property owned by the United States and administered by the Department of the Interior through the BLM and the National Park Service."[32] On November 3, 1998, United States District Judge Johnnie B. Rawlinson "permanently enjoined (Bundy) from grazing his livestock within the Bunkerville Allotment ("The Allotment"), and shall remove his livestock from this allotment on or before November 30, 1998... (and) ordered that Plaintiff shall be entitled to trespass damages from Bundy in the amount of $200.00 per day per head for any livestock belonging to Bundy remaining on the Bunkerville Allotment after November 30, 1998."[3] Rawlinson wrote that "[t]he government has shown commendable restraint in allowing this trespass to continue for so long without impounding Bundy’s livestock."[3] This sentence was restated on October 8, 2013, by District Judge Larry R. Hicks.[32] On September 17, 1999, after Bundy failed to comply with the court's earlier order(s), the court issued another order directing Bundy to comply with the 1998 permanent injunction and modifying the trespass damages owed.[12][32][33]

*2012–15: Legal actions*[edit]

Bundy's cattle expanded into additional public land over the years. A planned April 2012 roundup of his cattle was called off when Bundy made violent threats against the Bureau of Land Management. The bureau's requests for assistance from the Clark County Sheriff's Department were met by a demand of Sheriff Doug Gillespie that the bureau seek a new warrant because, he said, the original 1998 order had become "stale."[34]

Because of Gillespie's demand, in May 2012 the government filed a second _United States v. Bundy_ case,[a] seeking renewed enforcement authority for the original court orders along with relief for Bundy's trespassing on a new set of additional lands not covered by the original 1998 ruling: "including public lands within the Gold Butte area that are administered by the BLM, and National Park System land within the Overton Arm and Gold Butte areas of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area."[35] On December 21, 2012, the United States moved for summary judgment in this new case, and this motion was granted in an order signed by Senior District Judge Lloyd D. George on July 9, 2013.[35] The ruling permanently enjoined Bundy and his cattle from trespassing on the New Trespass Lands.[35] Another order was issued by Judge Larry R. Hicks on October 8, 2013, which stemmed from the earlier 1998 civil action against Bundy. The order allows the United States to "protect the ... Bunkerville Allotment


----------



## JakeStarkey

The Bundys are criminals.  Finicum is a dead criminal.  Those who defend the are either wannabee criminals or outright criminals.


----------



## peach174

Old Rocks said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
> Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link us to what you are talking about. They had grazing leases, not grazing rights. That is public land, not ranchers land. And were the government to sell it off as people like you want them to, it would be the big corporations that would buy the land, and then the ranchers would be paying $20 per unit, instead of the present fee that is under $2 per unit. If the corporations would lease the grazing to them at all. More that likely, they would refuse, and buy up the ranchers land a pennies on the dollar after they went broke for lack of grazing land.
Click to expand...



http://sct.narf.org/documents/yowellvabbey/petition.pdf

Yowel and Bundy both believe becase of this treaty, they have the rights to graze on that 10,000 acres.
It's been a continual charge for all western ranchers of the abuse of the BLM seizure of cattel since the 70's.


----------



## peach174

JimH52 said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, this is a lie.  Oh yeah, has Bundy paid the tax payers back for illegally grazing his cattle on federal land.  Maybe he can pay the after Stump caughs up his income tax returns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you just made the point very clear. Gov. side argument.
> Why has he not been prosecuted for tax evasion?
> Much simpler if it were true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You ain't so smart, are you?
> 
> *Bundy standoff - Wikipedia*
> 
> 
> 
> *998–2012: Legal actions*[edit]
> 
> _United States v. Bundy_ "arose out of Bundy’s unauthorized grazing of his livestock on property owned by the United States and administered by the Department of the Interior through the BLM and the National Park Service."[32] On November 3, 1998, United States District Judge Johnnie B. Rawlinson "permanently enjoined (Bundy) from grazing his livestock within the Bunkerville Allotment ("The Allotment"), and shall remove his livestock from this allotment on or before November 30, 1998... (and) ordered that Plaintiff shall be entitled to trespass damages from Bundy in the amount of $200.00 per day per head for any livestock belonging to Bundy remaining on the Bunkerville Allotment after November 30, 1998."[3] Rawlinson wrote that "[t]he government has shown commendable restraint in allowing this trespass to continue for so long without impounding Bundy’s livestock."[3] This sentence was restated on October 8, 2013, by District Judge Larry R. Hicks.[32] On September 17, 1999, after Bundy failed to comply with the court's earlier order(s), the court issued another order directing Bundy to comply with the 1998 permanent injunction and modifying the trespass damages owed.[12][32][33]
> 
> *2012–15: Legal actions*[edit]
> 
> Bundy's cattle expanded into additional public land over the years. A planned April 2012 roundup of his cattle was called off when Bundy made violent threats against the Bureau of Land Management. The bureau's requests for assistance from the Clark County Sheriff's Department were met by a demand of Sheriff Doug Gillespie that the bureau seek a new warrant because, he said, the original 1998 order had become "stale."[34]
> 
> Because of Gillespie's demand, in May 2012 the government filed a second _United States v. Bundy_ case,[a] seeking renewed enforcement authority for the original court orders along with relief for Bundy's trespassing on a new set of additional lands not covered by the original 1998 ruling: "including public lands within the Gold Butte area that are administered by the BLM, and National Park System land within the Overton Arm and Gold Butte areas of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area."[35] On December 21, 2012, the United States moved for summary judgment in this new case, and this motion was granted in an order signed by Senior District Judge Lloyd D. George on July 9, 2013.[35] The ruling permanently enjoined Bundy and his cattle from trespassing on the New Trespass Lands.[35] Another order was issued by Judge Larry R. Hicks on October 8, 2013, which stemmed from the earlier 1998 civil action against Bundy. The order allows the United States to "protect the ... Bunkerville Allotment
Click to expand...


Those are the charges.
You have a link that he paid it yet?


----------



## JimH52

peach174 said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, this is a lie.  Oh yeah, has Bundy paid the tax payers back for illegally grazing his cattle on federal land.  Maybe he can pay the after Stump caughs up his income tax returns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And you just made the point very clear. Gov. side argument.
> Why has he not been prosecuted for tax evasion?
> Much simpler if it were true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You ain't so smart, are you?
> 
> *Bundy standoff - Wikipedia*
> 
> 
> 
> *998–2012: Legal actions*[edit]
> 
> _United States v. Bundy_ "arose out of Bundy’s unauthorized grazing of his livestock on property owned by the United States and administered by the Department of the Interior through the BLM and the National Park Service."[32] On November 3, 1998, United States District Judge Johnnie B. Rawlinson "permanently enjoined (Bundy) from grazing his livestock within the Bunkerville Allotment ("The Allotment"), and shall remove his livestock from this allotment on or before November 30, 1998... (and) ordered that Plaintiff shall be entitled to trespass damages from Bundy in the amount of $200.00 per day per head for any livestock belonging to Bundy remaining on the Bunkerville Allotment after November 30, 1998."[3] Rawlinson wrote that "[t]he government has shown commendable restraint in allowing this trespass to continue for so long without impounding Bundy’s livestock."[3] This sentence was restated on October 8, 2013, by District Judge Larry R. Hicks.[32] On September 17, 1999, after Bundy failed to comply with the court's earlier order(s), the court issued another order directing Bundy to comply with the 1998 permanent injunction and modifying the trespass damages owed.[12][32][33]
> 
> *2012–15: Legal actions*[edit]
> 
> Bundy's cattle expanded into additional public land over the years. A planned April 2012 roundup of his cattle was called off when Bundy made violent threats against the Bureau of Land Management. The bureau's requests for assistance from the Clark County Sheriff's Department were met by a demand of Sheriff Doug Gillespie that the bureau seek a new warrant because, he said, the original 1998 order had become "stale."[34]
> 
> Because of Gillespie's demand, in May 2012 the government filed a second _United States v. Bundy_ case,[a] seeking renewed enforcement authority for the original court orders along with relief for Bundy's trespassing on a new set of additional lands not covered by the original 1998 ruling: "including public lands within the Gold Butte area that are administered by the BLM, and National Park System land within the Overton Arm and Gold Butte areas of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area."[35] On December 21, 2012, the United States moved for summary judgment in this new case, and this motion was granted in an order signed by Senior District Judge Lloyd D. George on July 9, 2013.[35] The ruling permanently enjoined Bundy and his cattle from trespassing on the New Trespass Lands.[35] Another order was issued by Judge Larry R. Hicks on October 8, 2013, which stemmed from the earlier 1998 civil action against Bundy. The order allows the United States to "protect the ... Bunkerville Allotment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those are the charges.
> You have a link that he paid it yet?
Click to expand...


Criminals don't pay fines.


----------



## JakeStarkey

peach174 said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> 
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
> Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link us to what you are talking about. They had grazing leases, not grazing rights. That is public land, not ranchers land. And were the government to sell it off as people like you want them to, it would be the big corporations that would buy the land, and then the ranchers would be paying $20 per unit, instead of the present fee that is under $2 per unit. If the corporations would lease the grazing to them at all. More that likely, they would refuse, and buy up the ranchers land a pennies on the dollar after they went broke for lack of grazing land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> http://sct.narf.org/documents/yowellvabbey/petition.pdf
> 
> Yowel and Bundy both believe becase of this treaty, they have the rights to graze on that 10,000 acres.
> It's been a continual charge for all western ranchers of the abuse of the BLM seizure of cattel since the 70's.
Click to expand...

What they believe is immaterial if the courts say they are wrong.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

JakeStarkey said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> 
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
> Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link us to what you are talking about. They had grazing leases, not grazing rights. That is public land, not ranchers land. And were the government to sell it off as people like you want them to, it would be the big corporations that would buy the land, and then the ranchers would be paying $20 per unit, instead of the present fee that is under $2 per unit. If the corporations would lease the grazing to them at all. More that likely, they would refuse, and buy up the ranchers land a pennies on the dollar after they went broke for lack of grazing land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> http://sct.narf.org/documents/yowellvabbey/petition.pdf
> 
> Yowel and Bundy both believe becase of this treaty, they have the rights to graze on that 10,000 acres.
> It's been a continual charge for all western ranchers of the abuse of the BLM seizure of cattel since the 70's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What they believe is immaterial if the courts say they are wrong.
Click to expand...

Dred Scott, Plessy, Korematsu


----------



## JakeStarkey

CrusaderFrank said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
> Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Link us to what you are talking about. They had grazing leases, not grazing rights. That is public land, not ranchers land. And were the government to sell it off as people like you want them to, it would be the big corporations that would buy the land, and then the ranchers would be paying $20 per unit, instead of the present fee that is under $2 per unit. If the corporations would lease the grazing to them at all. More that likely, they would refuse, and buy up the ranchers land a pennies on the dollar after they went broke for lack of grazing land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> http://sct.narf.org/documents/yowellvabbey/petition.pdf
> 
> Yowel and Bundy both believe becase of this treaty, they have the rights to graze on that 10,000 acres.
> It's been a continual charge for all western ranchers of the abuse of the BLM seizure of cattel since the 70's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What they believe is immaterial if the courts say they are wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dred Scott, Plessy, Korematsu
Click to expand...

Frank, focus, please.  We are talking about the Bundy criminal gang.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

JakeStarkey said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
> Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.
> 
> 
> 
> Link us to what you are talking about. They had grazing leases, not grazing rights. That is public land, not ranchers land. And were the government to sell it off as people like you want them to, it would be the big corporations that would buy the land, and then the ranchers would be paying $20 per unit, instead of the present fee that is under $2 per unit. If the corporations would lease the grazing to them at all. More that likely, they would refuse, and buy up the ranchers land a pennies on the dollar after they went broke for lack of grazing land.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> http://sct.narf.org/documents/yowellvabbey/petition.pdf
> 
> Yowel and Bundy both believe becase of this treaty, they have the rights to graze on that 10,000 acres.
> It's been a continual charge for all western ranchers of the abuse of the BLM seizure of cattel since the 70's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What they believe is immaterial if the courts say they are wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dred Scott, Plessy, Korematsu
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frank, focus, please.  We are talking about the Bundy criminal gang.
Click to expand...


Bundy's patriots. Do you consider the Indians standing for clean water to be criminals as well?


----------



## JakeStarkey

CrusaderFrank said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link us to what you are talking about. They had grazing leases, not grazing rights. That is public land, not ranchers land. And were the government to sell it off as people like you want them to, it would be the big corporations that would buy the land, and then the ranchers would be paying $20 per unit, instead of the present fee that is under $2 per unit. If the corporations would lease the grazing to them at all. More that likely, they would refuse, and buy up the ranchers land a pennies on the dollar after they went broke for lack of grazing land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://sct.narf.org/documents/yowellvabbey/petition.pdf
> 
> Yowel and Bundy both believe becase of this treaty, they have the rights to graze on that 10,000 acres.
> It's been a continual charge for all western ranchers of the abuse of the BLM seizure of cattel since the 70's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What they believe is immaterial if the courts say they are wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dred Scott, Plessy, Korematsu
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frank, focus, please.  We are talking about the Bundy criminal gang.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bundy's patriots. Do you consider the Indians standing for clean water to be criminals as well?
Click to expand...

Nope, they are not.  And the Bundys worry about cattle, not clean water for indigenous peoples.


----------



## teddyearp

JakeStarkey said:


> Frank, focus, please.  We are talking about the Bundy criminal gang.



Jake, please focus, you mean the Bundy acquitted gang.


----------



## JakeStarkey

teddyearp said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Frank, focus, please.  We are talking about the Bundy criminal gang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, please focus, you mean the Bundy acquitted gang.
Click to expand...

We are talking about the criminal gang.  Jury nullification does not end that they are acknowledged *criminals*.


----------



## Andylusion

JimH52 said:


> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> UPDATE: The remaining defendants who did not plead out were all acquitted:
> 
> Jury finds all 7 wildlife refuge occupiers including Ammon Bundy not guilty on all counts
> 
> Funny how this ending never made big news.  And for all you haters that posted in this thread.  Now who's the assholes?
> 
> The saddest part is that now LaVoy Finicum was actually killed for nothing. He would have been acquitted as well. Smacks of murder even more now.
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
> Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did they violate?  Bundy refused to pay what he owed.
Click to expand...


This is where Wikipedia fails.

Everything you said is true... but you are missing a few facts.

The BLM which owns 2/3rds of Nevada (unconstitutionally I might add), changed the permit rules.

The new rules required that Bundy not graze cattle.      Well... Bundy can't just not feed his cattle, because the BLM wants to protect a turtle.     When your whole occupation is cattle rancher, and have the Federal Government say "well you can't graze that many cattle anymore", that's effectively destroying your income.

If the Federal Government showed up and said there was an endangered mole-rat living in your companies basement, so you can only work 3 days a week from here on, cutting your pay to 3/5ths....  would you be peachy and fine with that?    Because that is exactly what happened to Bundy, and you seem to support that.

Bundy was perfectly fine paying the permits as long as the he was allowed to graze his cattle.   Bundy only stopped paying the permits, when he was told he couldn't graze the cattle anymore.

And the irony is, you people are whining about how he didn't pay the permits, when in reality he wouldn't have to pay that much in permits anyway, because the whole problem was started when the BLM refused to permit him to graze all his cattle.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Andylusion said:


> JimH52 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> peach174 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The idiot committed suicide by cop.  We have all seen the vids.  All he had to do was drop his weapon.
> 
> 
> 
> The point is he would still be alive to begin with if the Feds had not abused their BLM grazing rights.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All he had to do was drop his weapon.  He killed himself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you, he was stupid.
> Point is Feds should not have violated original grazing rights which has been going on since the 70's with all cattle ranchers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What did they violate?  Bundy refused to pay what he owed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is where Wikipedia fails.
> 
> Everything you said is true... but you are missing a few facts.
> 
> The BLM which owns 2/3rds of Nevada (unconstitutionally I might add), changed the permit rules.
> 
> The new rules required that Bundy not graze cattle.      Well... Bundy can't just not feed his cattle, because the BLM wants to protect a turtle.     When your whole occupation is cattle rancher, and have the Federal Government say "well you can't graze that many cattle anymore", that's effectively destroying your income.
> 
> If the Federal Government showed up and said there was an endangered mole-rat living in your companies basement, so you can only work 3 days a week from here on, cutting your pay to 3/5ths....  would you be peachy and fine with that?    Because that is exactly what happened to Bundy, and you seem to support that.
> 
> Bundy was perfectly fine paying the permits as long as the he was allowed to graze his cattle.   Bundy only stopped paying the permits, when he was told he couldn't graze the cattle anymore.
> 
> And the irony is, you people are whining about how he didn't pay the permits, when in reality he wouldn't have to pay that much in permits anyway, because the whole problem was started when the BLM refused to permit him to graze all his cattle.
Click to expand...

Only the illiterate think federal ownership of lands is unconstitutional.

Nothing can be discussed with such folks until they become educated.


----------



## teddyearp

JakeStarkey said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Frank, focus, please.  We are talking about the Bundy criminal gang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, please focus, you mean the Bundy acquitted gang.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are talking about the criminal gang.  Jury nullification does not end that they are acknowledged *criminals*.
Click to expand...


So even an acquittal means nothing to you mon fuehrer? Since the jury's verdict goes contrary to your *opinion*?


----------



## JakeStarkey

teddyearp said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Frank, focus, please.  We are talking about the Bundy criminal gang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, please focus, you mean the Bundy acquitted gang.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are talking about the criminal gang.  Jury nullification does not end that they are acknowledged *criminals*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So even an acquittal means nothing to you mon fuehrer? Since the jury's verdict goes contrary to your *opinion*?
Click to expand...

I was talking abou the Bundy criminals.  A jury nullification in Oregon will not prevent them from going to jail in future federal trials.


----------



## Faun

teddyearp said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Frank, focus, please.  We are talking about the Bundy criminal gang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, please focus, you mean the Bundy acquitted gang.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are talking about the criminal gang.  Jury nullification does not end that they are acknowledged *criminals*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So even an acquittal means nothing to you mon fuehrer? Since the jury's verdict goes contrary to your *opinion*?
Click to expand...

How's Levoy's acquittal coming?


----------



## teddyearp

JakeStarkey said:


> I was talking abou the Bundy criminals.  A jury nullification in Oregon will not prevent them from going to jail in future federal trials.



Again, thanks for sharing your conviction here with the board.  In the United States of America as it should be, one is not a criminal because they have merely been charged with a crime.  Sadly, the main stream media effects a conviction by the court of popular opinion, but that is not how the constitution works.

They are not criminals until *convicted in a court of law.* Sure, the verdict in Oregon may be considered 'jury nullification', but the fact remains that it was an *acquittal*, and therefore *not criminals* in that incident.


----------



## teddyearp

JakeStarkey said:


> I was talking abou the Bundy criminals.  A jury nullification in Oregon will not prevent them from going to jail in future federal trials.



So how is this Bundy "criminal" thing working out now? There have been more acquittals, hung jury's and now the Bundy's have been released from jail. Well, Cliven decided to stay.

Link: Ammon Bundy released, Cliven Bundy choosing to remain behind bars



teddyearp said:


> Again, thanks for sharing your conviction here with the board.  In the United States of America as it should be, one is not a criminal because they have merely been charged with a crime.  Sadly, the main stream media effects a conviction by the court of popular opinion, but that is not how the constitution works.
> 
> They are not criminals until *convicted in a court of law.* {By  a jury of their peers} Sure, the verdict in Oregon may be considered 'jury nullification', but the fact remains that it was an *acquittal*, and therefore *not criminals* in that incident.



And it's looking more an more like the Bundy's will not be criminals at all.


----------



## teddyearp

Faun said:


> How's Levoy's acquittal coming?


That is just plain fucked up. But we are still waiting to hear what really happened there on US 395 between Burns and John Day. Apparently, as you may know, the FBI was caught lying about the events there.


----------



## koshergrl

Murder.


----------



## Old Rocks

Suicide by police. The dumb ass tried to pull a gun and got what he had coming. Anyone that has seen the videos can see this. We know now in Oregon that anytime someone takes over something the the Malhuer Reserve, to send in the National Guard with machine guns and tanks, and send the bodies back to where ever they came from. No use gives such miscreants any quarter at all.


----------



## tinydancer

koshergrl said:


> Murder.





koshergrl said:


> Murder.



straight up girl no way around it


----------



## JakeStarkey

teddyearp said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was talking abou the Bundy criminals.  A jury nullification in Oregon will not prevent them from going to jail in future federal trials.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how is this Bundy "criminal" thing working out now? There have been more acquittals, hung jury's and now the Bundy's have been released from jail. Well, Cliven decided to stay.
> 
> Link: Ammon Bundy released, Cliven Bundy choosing to remain behind bars
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, thanks for sharing your conviction here with the board.  In the United States of America as it should be, one is not a criminal because they have merely been charged with a crime.  Sadly, the main stream media effects a conviction by the court of popular opinion, but that is not how the constitution works.
> 
> They are not criminals until *convicted in a court of law.* {By  a jury of their peers} Sure, the verdict in Oregon may be considered 'jury nullification', but the fact remains that it was an *acquittal*, and therefore *not criminals* in that incident.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And it's looking more an more like the Bundy's will not be criminals at all.
Click to expand...

Teddy, they were in jail.  They are now in house arrest.  They are not 'free' men.

How is that going for you?


----------



## teddyearp

JakeStarkey said:


> Teddy, they were in jail.  They are now in house arrest.  They are not 'free' men.
> 
> How is that going for you?


Quite well so far. I never said free men, just released from jail, to which you do agree. Thanks.


----------



## Old Rocks

Hope they end up in jail for the rest of their natural lives. We just don't need a bunch of miscreants with guns running around threatening people.


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> Hope they end up in jail for the rest of their natural lives. We just don't need a bunch of miscreants with guns running around threatening people.


Too bad your hopes are crumbling around your head. And you do not even realize it. Yet.


----------



## Old Rocks

You people running around with your assault weapons, making up excuses to bully other citizens, have just about run out of any kind of sympathy from the general public. Vegas and the little church in Texas kind of showed the results of your kind of thinking.


----------



## JakeStarkey

teddyearp said:


> Quite well so far. I never said free men, just released from jail, to which you do agree. Thanks.


Teddy, you are stupid.  We can research what you wrote, which was "Bundy's have been released from jail" implying they are free men."

The sovereign citizen movement as we have seen is headed for dirt naps and prisons.


----------



## teddyearp

Old Rocks said:


> You people running around with your assault weapons, making up excuses to bully other citizens, have just about run out of any kind of sympathy from the general public. Vegas and the little church in Texas kind of showed the results of your kind of thinking.


And who was it that helped stop the Texas shooting? Someone 'running around' (hardy har har) with what you mis describe as an 'assault' weapon.


----------



## Postmodernism Sux

Old Rocks said:


> You people running around with your assault weapons, making up excuses to bully other citizens, have just about run out of any kind of sympathy from the general public. Vegas and the little church in Texas kind of showed the results of your kind of thinking.



The time is up for you fascist pigs attempting to overthrow the Constitution by using the corpses of dead children as your soap box.


----------



## Postmodernism Sux

JakeStarkey said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quite well so far. I never said free men, just released from jail, to which you do agree. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy, you are stupid.  We can research what you wrote, which was "Bundy's have been released from jail" implying they are free men."
> 
> The sovereign citizen movement as we have seen is headed for dirt naps and prisons.
Click to expand...


We will see all enemies of the Constitution hung from their necks.


----------



## Nosmo King

PredFan said:


> This kind of thing happens when you oppress people too much.


Did you hear that at a Black Lives Matter rally?


----------



## JakeStarkey

teddyearp said:


> Old Rocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> You people running around with your assault weapons, making up excuses to bully other citizens, have just about run out of any kind of sympathy from the general public. Vegas and the little church in Texas kind of showed the results of your kind of thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> And who was it that helped stop the Texas shooting? Someone 'running around' (hardy har har) with what you mis describe as an 'assault' weapon.
Click to expand...

Fallacy of false equivalency, as a private citizen stopped another private citizen from murdering other private citizens.

Your armed revolutionaries interfered with the legal operations of state and government.

This will help you.  Purdue OWL: Logic in Argumentative Writing


----------



## JakeStarkey

Postmodernism Sux said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quite well so far. I never said free men, just released from jail, to which you do agree. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy, you are stupid.  We can research what you wrote, which was "Bundy's have been released from jail" implying they are free men."
> 
> The sovereign citizen movement as we have seen is headed for dirt naps and prisons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We will see all enemies of the Constitution hung from their necks.
Click to expand...

I agree.  The sovereign citizens will have to make their peace with God, then go to meet Him.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Old Rocks said:


> Hope they end up in jail for the rest of their natural lives. We just don't need a bunch of miscreants with guns running around threatening people.



Agreed. But being Fed. miscreants will likely protect them from all the justifiable consequences of their murder.


----------



## Postmodernism Sux

JakeStarkey said:


> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quite well so far. I never said free men, just released from jail, to which you do agree. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy, you are stupid.  We can research what you wrote, which was "Bundy's have been released from jail" implying they are free men."
> 
> The sovereign citizen movement as we have seen is headed for dirt naps and prisons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We will see all enemies of the Constitution hung from their necks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree.  The sovereign citizens will have to make their peace with God, then go to meet Him.
Click to expand...


No it is fascist pigs like you attempting to overthrow the Constitution by using the corpses of dead children as your soap box, who will see the noose.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Postmodernism Sux said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quite well so far. I never said free men, just released from jail, to which you do agree. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy, you are stupid.  We can research what you wrote, which was "Bundy's have been released from jail" implying they are free men."
> 
> The sovereign citizen movement as we have seen is headed for dirt naps and prisons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We will see all enemies of the Constitution hung from their necks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree.  The sovereign citizens will have to make their peace with God, then go to meet Him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it is fascist pigs like you attempting to overthrow the Constitution by using the corpses of dead children as your soap box, who will see the noose.
Click to expand...

I am no more a fascist than you are an American patriot.  The fifties and sixties are over, and any who rises up against We the People will be dirt napped by their neighbors.  The LEO and military will not be needed.


----------



## Postmodernism Sux

JakeStarkey said:


> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quite well so far. I never said free men, just released from jail, to which you do agree. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy, you are stupid.  We can research what you wrote, which was "Bundy's have been released from jail" implying they are free men."
> 
> The sovereign citizen movement as we have seen is headed for dirt naps and prisons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We will see all enemies of the Constitution hung from their necks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree.  The sovereign citizens will have to make their peace with God, then go to meet Him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it is fascist pigs like you attempting to overthrow the Constitution by using the corpses of dead children as your soap box, who will see the noose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am no more a fascist than you are an American patriot.  The fifties and sixties are over, and any who rises up against We the People will be dirt napped by their neighbors.  The LEO and military will not be needed.
Click to expand...


You are a fascist who uses the corpses of dead children in furtherance of your attempts to overthrow the Constitution.


----------



## PredFan

Nosmo King said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of thing happens when you oppress people too much.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you hear that at a Black Lives Matter rally?
Click to expand...


I was being sarcastic. that is the exact excuse that the left uses when they act up.


----------



## Nosmo King

PredFan said:


> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of thing happens when you oppress people too much.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you hear that at a Black Lives Matter rally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was being sarcastic. that is the exact excuse that the left uses when they act up.
Click to expand...

Sarcastic, without a kernel of truth?


----------



## PredFan

Nosmo King said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nosmo King said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> 
> This kind of thing happens when you oppress people too much.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you hear that at a Black Lives Matter rally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was being sarcastic. that is the exact excuse that the left uses when they act up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sarcastic, without a kernel of truth?
Click to expand...


Exactly sarcastic. The TRUTH is that when the left acts up, even when one kills someone, they claim that that is what happens when people are oppressed. They have said that or words to that effect countless times.


----------



## teddyearp

PredFan said:


> Exactly sarcastic. The TRUTH is that when the left acts up, *even when one kills someone, they claim that that is what happens when people are oppressed*. They have said that or words to that effect countless times.


Funny, this seems to apply in the I/P forum as well.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Postmodernism Sux said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Teddy, you are stupid.  We can research what you wrote, which was "Bundy's have been released from jail" implying they are free men."
> 
> The sovereign citizen movement as we have seen is headed for dirt naps and prisons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We will see all enemies of the Constitution hung from their necks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree.  The sovereign citizens will have to make their peace with God, then go to meet Him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it is fascist pigs like you attempting to overthrow the Constitution by using the corpses of dead children as your soap box, who will see the noose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am no more a fascist than you are an American patriot.  The fifties and sixties are over, and any who rises up against We the People will be dirt napped by their neighbors.  The LEO and military will not be needed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fascist who uses the corpses of dead children in furtherance of your attempts to overthrow the Constitution.
Click to expand...

You use terms and memes the meaning of which you do not understand.


----------



## Postmodernism Sux

JakeStarkey said:


> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> We will see all enemies of the Constitution hung from their necks.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.  The sovereign citizens will have to make their peace with God, then go to meet Him.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it is fascist pigs like you attempting to overthrow the Constitution by using the corpses of dead children as your soap box, who will see the noose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am no more a fascist than you are an American patriot.  The fifties and sixties are over, and any who rises up against We the People will be dirt napped by their neighbors.  The LEO and military will not be needed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fascist who uses the corpses of dead children in furtherance of your attempts to overthrow the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You use terms memes the meaning of which you do not understand.
Click to expand...


I understand that you want to use the corpses of dead children as an excuse to violate the 2nd amendment.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Postmodernism Sux said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.  The sovereign citizens will have to make their peace with God, then go to meet Him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it is fascist pigs like you attempting to overthrow the Constitution by using the corpses of dead children as your soap box, who will see the noose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am no more a fascist than you are an American patriot.  The fifties and sixties are over, and any who rises up against We the People will be dirt napped by their neighbors.  The LEO and military will not be needed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fascist who uses the corpses of dead children in furtherance of your attempts to overthrow the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You use terms memes the meaning of which you do not understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you want to use the corpses of dead children as an excuse to violate the 2nd amendment.
Click to expand...

Sir, you sound crazy, truly.  You sound like you want to keep guns in the hands of crazies and those on no fly lists.


----------



## Postmodernism Sux

JakeStarkey said:


> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Postmodernism Sux said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it is fascist pigs like you attempting to overthrow the Constitution by using the corpses of dead children as your soap box, who will see the noose.
> 
> 
> 
> I am no more a fascist than you are an American patriot.  The fifties and sixties are over, and any who rises up against We the People will be dirt napped by their neighbors.  The LEO and military will not be needed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a fascist who uses the corpses of dead children in furtherance of your attempts to overthrow the Constitution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You use terms memes the meaning of which you do not understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand that you want to use the corpses of dead children as an excuse to violate the 2nd amendment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sir, you sound crazy, truly.  You sound like you want to keep guns in the hands of crazies and those on no fly lists.
Click to expand...


You sound like you want to overturn the constitution you fascist pig.


----------



## teddyearp

Hehe, and now *another* mistrial.  And there may even be a dismissal coming.  So much for convicting someone in the court of 'popular opinion', i.e. the press.


----------



## teddyearp

Well, now the story is just about over now.  The Bundy's got acquitted in Oregon, their case dismissed with prejudiced in Nevada and now the Hammond's have even been pardoned and released.  Now we just have to see what happens with LaVoy's murder.

Who's the assholes now?


----------



## Vandalshandle

teddyearp said:


> Well, now the story is just about over now.  The Bundy's got acquitted in Oregon, their case dismissed with prejudiced in Nevada and now the Hammond's have even been pardoned and released.  Now we just have to see what happens with LaVoy's murder.
> 
> Who's the assholes now?



It is always uplifting to watch armed radical militia get away with anarchy and destruction of government property.


----------



## Dale Smith

Vandalshandle said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, now the story is just about over now.  The Bundy's got acquitted in Oregon, their case dismissed with prejudiced in Nevada and now the Hammond's have even been pardoned and released.  Now we just have to see what happens with LaVoy's murder.
> 
> Who's the assholes now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is always uplifting to watch armed radical militia get away with anarchy and destruction of government property.
Click to expand...


You are absolutely clueless.....most leftards are.


----------



## teddyearp

Vandalshandle said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, now the story is just about over now.  The Bundy's got acquitted in Oregon, their case dismissed with prejudiced in Nevada and now the Hammond's have even been pardoned and released.  Now we just have to see what happens with LaVoy's murder.
> 
> Who's the assholes now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is always uplifting to watch armed radical militia get away with anarchy and destruction of government property.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about Antifa, where did you get this?


----------



## Vandalshandle

teddyearp said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, now the story is just about over now.  The Bundy's got acquitted in Oregon, their case dismissed with prejudiced in Nevada and now the Hammond's have even been pardoned and released.  Now we just have to see what happens with LaVoy's murder.
> 
> Who's the assholes now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is always uplifting to watch armed radical militia get away with anarchy and destruction of government property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wasn't talking about Antifa, where did you get this?
Click to expand...


I am sure that you would feel the same thrill if the Black Panthers take over Columbia University again....


----------



## teddyearp

So, I suppose that it is only OK to protest or be 'anti-government' if you are Democrat?


----------



## Vandalshandle

teddyearp said:


> So, I suppose that it is only OK to protest or be 'anti-government' if you are Democrat?



Oh, not at all! We should give all armed Americans the right to seize government property without penalty, any time they want to!


----------



## teddyearp

You just do not get it do you?  How old are you?

I lived through the 60's and all the protests.  They were all anti-government and while some were peaceful, there were the Bill Ayers' types as well.  I liked the anti-government aspect of it.  And all of these folks were Democrats.  Anti-Government Democrats.  Well, since then they have taken over what used to be the Democratic Party and turned it into . . . .  something unrecognizable.  Something that now goes out and protests for more Government.  Do you not see that?  Hossfly is a Vietnam Vet and I'm sure he has some stories to tell along these lines.  It seems as though the Democratic party as it is today is out to get anyone who is now anti-government.  The irony is palatable.  And it doesn't taste good.

Now mind you, I became quite disappointed in the Republican party as well before I could legally vote.  In the first presidential election I could vote in, I did not vote for either of the 'big' two.  I did not vote for Reagan.  Now, I try to not assume you're a Democrat, actually it doesn't mean squat to the point I'm trying to make.

All through this thread I've tried to point out the irony of the situation.  All the anti-government protestors of the '60's and '70's who were and are Democrats have turned it around on us and have helped the .gov grow in so much power that it is true.  Individual BLM, Fish & Wildlife, and even USFS managers can write their own rules which become as if they are public laws.  They can and some do treat their administrative areas as their own fiefdom. The .gov has been given WAY too much power.

So, yes, for these folks to have pushed back and won, I say good for them.  Maybe the Bundy's et al are the Democrats of the 21st century, hehe.


----------



## Dale Smith

Vandalshandle said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, I suppose that it is only OK to protest or be 'anti-government' if you are Democrat?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, not at all! We should give all armed Americans the right to seize government property without penalty, any time they want to!
Click to expand...


"gubermint property" like what the BLM was trying to procure by prosecuting the Hammonds for doing a controlled burn that they had been given permission to do?

If you have ever had a moment where you thought to yourself "I really need to STFU because I am in over my head"?

This is one of those times.


----------



## JoeB131

Dale Smith said:


> "gubermint property" like what the BLM was trying to procure by prosecuting the Hammonds for doing a controlled burn that they had been given permission to do?



If the fire spread from their land to government land, then it wasn't a 'controlled' burn.


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Vandalshandle said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, now the story is just about over now.  The Bundy's got acquitted in Oregon, their case dismissed with prejudiced in Nevada and now the Hammond's have even been pardoned and released.  Now we just have to see what happens with LaVoy's murder.
> 
> Who's the assholes now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is always uplifting to watch armed radical militia get away with anarchy and destruction of government property.
Click to expand...


Exactly how the Country was formed. In America the government does not own property. It is allowed to manage property that belongs to the public.


----------



## Vandalshandle

teddyearp said:


> You just do not get it do you?  How old are you?
> 
> I lived through the 60's and all the protests.  They were all anti-government and while some were peaceful, there were the Bill Ayers' types as well.  I liked the anti-government aspect of it.  And all of these folks were Democrats.  Anti-Government Democrats.  Well, since then they have taken over what used to be the Democratic Party and turned it into . . . .  something unrecognizable.  Something that now goes out and protests for more Government.  Do you not see that?  Hossfly is a Vietnam Vet and I'm sure he has some stories to tell along these lines.  It seems as though the Democratic party as it is today is out to get anyone who is now anti-government.  The irony is palatable.  And it doesn't taste good.
> 
> Now mind you, I became quite disappointed in the Republican party as well before I could legally vote.  In the first presidential election I could vote in, I did not vote for either of the 'big' two.  I did not vote for Reagan.  Now, I try to not assume you're a Democrat, actually it doesn't mean squat to the point I'm trying to make.
> 
> All through this thread I've tried to point out the irony of the situation.  All the anti-government protestors of the '60's and '70's who were and are Democrats have turned it around on us and have helped the .gov grow in so much power that it is true.  Individual BLM, Fish & Wildlife, and even USFS managers can write their own rules which become as if they are public laws.  They can and some do treat their administrative areas as their own fiefdom. The .gov has been given WAY too much power.
> 
> So, yes, for these folks to have pushed back and won, I say good for them.  Maybe the Bundy's et al are the Democrats of the 21st century, hehe.



Whatever, Ted. I go back to my original statement. It just warms the cockles of my heart to see armed archaists illegally seize and destroy government property and get away with it. That is called, "Making America Great Again".


----------



## Vandalshandle

9thIDdoc said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, now the story is just about over now.  The Bundy's got acquitted in Oregon, their case dismissed with prejudiced in Nevada and now the Hammond's have even been pardoned and released.  Now we just have to see what happens with LaVoy's murder.
> 
> Who's the assholes now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is always uplifting to watch armed radical militia get away with anarchy and destruction of government property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly how the Country was formed. In America the government does not own property. It is allowed to manage property that belongs to the public.
Click to expand...


Great! Then, I think I am going to build a cabin on my share of public land in Yellowstone Park!


----------



## 9thIDdoc

Vandalshandle said:


> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, now the story is just about over now.  The Bundy's got acquitted in Oregon, their case dismissed with prejudiced in Nevada and now the Hammond's have even been pardoned and released.  Now we just have to see what happens with LaVoy's murder.
> 
> Who's the assholes now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is always uplifting to watch armed radical militia get away with anarchy and destruction of government property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly how the Country was formed. In America the government does not own property. It is allowed to manage property that belongs to the public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great! Then, I think I am going to build a cabin on my share of public land in Yellowstone Park!
Click to expand...


Bad idea. The government whose ass you seem so eager to kiss might well shoot you first and ask questions later like they did with the cowboy. What illegal actions? You are disagreeing with the courts who who have have dismissed the government's charges with prejudice thereby inviting lawsuits from the private citizens it has abused. The sad thing is that the money used to pay off these suits will be tax money that came from private citizens to begin with. Robbing Peter to pay Peter.


----------



## Dale Smith

JoeB131 said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> "gubermint property" like what the BLM was trying to procure by prosecuting the Hammonds for doing a controlled burn that they had been given permission to do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the fire spread from their land to government land, then it wasn't a 'controlled' burn.
Click to expand...


Rules for thee but not for the federal "gubermint", Joe?

Federal Double Standards on Fire Liability


----------



## Dale Smith

Vandalshandle said:


> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You just do not get it do you?  How old are you?
> 
> I lived through the 60's and all the protests.  They were all anti-government and while some were peaceful, there were the Bill Ayers' types as well.  I liked the anti-government aspect of it.  And all of these folks were Democrats.  Anti-Government Democrats.  Well, since then they have taken over what used to be the Democratic Party and turned it into . . . .  something unrecognizable.  Something that now goes out and protests for more Government.  Do you not see that?  Hossfly is a Vietnam Vet and I'm sure he has some stories to tell along these lines.  It seems as though the Democratic party as it is today is out to get anyone who is now anti-government.  The irony is palatable.  And it doesn't taste good.
> 
> Now mind you, I became quite disappointed in the Republican party as well before I could legally vote.  In the first presidential election I could vote in, I did not vote for either of the 'big' two.  I did not vote for Reagan.  Now, I try to not assume you're a Democrat, actually it doesn't mean squat to the point I'm trying to make.
> 
> All through this thread I've tried to point out the irony of the situation.  All the anti-government protestors of the '60's and '70's who were and are Democrats have turned it around on us and have helped the .gov grow in so much power that it is true.  Individual BLM, Fish & Wildlife, and even USFS managers can write their own rules which become as if they are public laws.  They can and some do treat their administrative areas as their own fiefdom. The .gov has been given WAY too much power.
> 
> So, yes, for these folks to have pushed back and won, I say good for them.  Maybe the Bundy's et al are the Democrats of the 21st century, hehe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Ted. I go back to my original statement. It just warms the cockles of my heart to see armed archaists illegally seize and destroy government property and get away with it. That is called, "Making America Great Again".
Click to expand...



LMAO! You are SOOO fucking clueless.......ignorance is bliss and you are one happy motherfucker! LOL!!!!!!


----------



## skye

FREE OREGON!

FREE IT FROM THE TOTALITARIAN LEFT!


----------



## skye

Drain the Leftist Swamp in Oregon!

Drain it now!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Vandalshandle

9thIDdoc said:


> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9thIDdoc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vandalshandle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyearp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, now the story is just about over now.  The Bundy's got acquitted in Oregon, their case dismissed with prejudiced in Nevada and now the Hammond's have even been pardoned and released.  Now we just have to see what happens with LaVoy's murder.
> 
> Who's the assholes now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is always uplifting to watch armed radical militia get away with anarchy and destruction of government property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly how the Country was formed. In America the government does not own property. It is allowed to manage property that belongs to the public.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great! Then, I think I am going to build a cabin on my share of public land in Yellowstone Park!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bad idea. The government whose ass you seem so eager to kiss might well shoot you first and ask questions later like they did with the cowboy. What illegal actions? You are disagreeing with the courts who who have have dismissed the government's charges with prejudice thereby inviting lawsuits from the private citizens it has abused. The sad thing is that the money used to pay off these suits will be tax money that came from private citizens to begin with. Robbing Peter to pay Peter.
Click to expand...


If our totalitarian government will shoot me for building a cabin in Yellowstone National Park public land, then I say, "UP THE REVOLUTION!" You have nothing to lose but your chains! (Karl Marx)


----------



## progressive hunter

jc456 said:


> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, of late I'm not fking at the moment. I am, however, posting in a forum full of libturds who know very little about threats.  And those said libturds not able to post up valid factual information.
Click to expand...



well you do seem to have a dbl standard as to when cops can kill people,,,

I just hope that reason isnt about skin color


----------



## jc456

progressive hunter said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> after releasing a grainy and highly edited video from a drone
> 
> the sheriffs department says it will be another 4 weeks before the rest of the audio
> 
> and video including cox cell phone audio in which she says
> 
> the cops had been firing on the truck prior to lavoy existing the vehicle with his hands up
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, of late I'm not fking at the moment. I am, however, posting in a forum full of libturds who know very little about threats.  And those said libturds not able to post up valid factual information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> well you do seem to have a dbl standard as to when cops can kill people,,,
> 
> I just hope that reason isnt about skin color
Click to expand...

cops can shoot people in quite a few scenarios.  you seem to think that's odd.  funny.  Again, I asked you, what is it I'm not consistent with?  Like for like scenarios or different scenarios with similar conclusions?


----------



## progressive hunter

jc456 said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Faun said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy wanted to die and he got what he wanted. The others, who turned themselves in, walked along their vehicle and never lowered their hands until they were in police custody.
> 
> Not Lavoy. Lavoy said he would not be taken alive. It was his choice to die because he preferred death than being in a "concrete box." His words.
> 
> He tried to escape from the FBI & OSP. That attempt failed him when he got his vehicle stuck in the snow. It was then he decided he would get himself killed. He would not be taken alive; he would get himself shot by police. So instead of walking along the vehicle to the police like the others, Finicum trotted away from the vehicle and towards the woods. Not to escape. Not to turn himself in. To clear the vehicle where others were still inside. He wanted police to shoot him but not near the others where they could get hurt. He wanted the police to shoot him dead but didn't want anyone else with him get injured because of his choice to avoid going to jail. So he kept his hands up so police wouldn't shoot until he cleared the vehicle. While shouting at police to shoot him -- he lowered his hands in a threatening motion to go for his gun, knowing full well the consequences of that action.
> 
> That's what he wanted.
> 
> That's what he got.
> 
> That's what can be seen on the video released by the FBI and no other video will show it any differently.
> 
> 
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, of late I'm not fking at the moment. I am, however, posting in a forum full of libturds who know very little about threats.  And those said libturds not able to post up valid factual information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> well you do seem to have a dbl standard as to when cops can kill people,,,
> 
> I just hope that reason isnt about skin color
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> cops can shoot people in quite a few scenarios.  you seem to think that's odd.  funny.  Again, I asked you, what is it I'm not consistent with?  Like for like scenarios or different scenarios with similar conclusions?
Click to expand...

now youre just being an asshole,,,

I laid it out in detail on two different threads,,,and you chose to ignore both of them,,,


----------



## jc456

progressive hunter said:


> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AceRothstein said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jc456 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already posted that assisted suicide by a physician is the only legal assisted suicide in Oregon.  So the murder is illegal assisted suicide.  Hmmmmmmmmm, murder is murder.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> no, of late I'm not fking at the moment. I am, however, posting in a forum full of libturds who know very little about threats.  And those said libturds not able to post up valid factual information.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> well you do seem to have a dbl standard as to when cops can kill people,,,
> 
> I just hope that reason isnt about skin color
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> cops can shoot people in quite a few scenarios.  you seem to think that's odd.  funny.  Again, I asked you, what is it I'm not consistent with?  Like for like scenarios or different scenarios with similar conclusions?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> now youre just being an asshole,,,
> 
> I laid it out in detail on two different threads,,,and you chose to ignore both of them,,,
Click to expand...

nope, you're lying.  I answered every post of yours.  you should go read.


----------



## teddyearp

Vandalshandle said:


> It is always uplifting to watch armed radical militia get away with anarchy and destruction of government property.


All the 'peaceful protests' in Portland, Oregon had me thinking about this thread.  How everyone from the Governor on down wanted blood.  Including many posters here who live in Portland.  Oh the irony.


----------

