# Israel violates international law



## Victory67 (Feb 7, 2014)

Israel violates the 4th Geneva Conventions.

Israel violates the UN Charter Article 80

Israel violates the Mandate for Palestine.

Israel violates the San Remo Conference.

Israel violates the Balfour Declaration.

Why do they think they can continue to violate this many international laws and not be hated for it?


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## Mr. H. (Feb 7, 2014)

I like violations. And carnations. Heck I just like flowers.


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## Sally (Feb 7, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Israel violates the 4th Geneva Conventions.
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> Israel violates the UN Charter Article 80
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Nothing about the violations to human decency regarding all those people in the Middle East murdering innocent others in the name of their religion???


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## Victory67 (Feb 7, 2014)

Sally said:


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Start a thread about it.


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## Sally (Feb 7, 2014)

Victory67 said:


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I laugh at guys like you because you are so obvious.  You are comatose as to what is happening in the rest of the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Africa, but only want people to concentrate on one little dot on the map only because the jews are involved.


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## RoccoR (Feb 7, 2014)

Victory67,  _et al,_

Yes, we know.  Remembering that both sides have unclean hands.  The difference is that the Palestinian plays the part of the perpetual victim.



Victory67 said:


> Israel violates the 4th Geneva Conventions.
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> Israel violates the UN Charter Article 80
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*(COMMENT)*

First off, 

The Article 80, doesn't apply to the State of Israel.  It applies to the Mandate which is rolled-over from the LoN Mandate System to the UN Trustee System under Para 1a, Article 77.

The State of Israel never violated the Mandate of Palestine.  The Mandate was terminated before Israel was an entity.

The State of Israel had nothing to complete under, no obligation to meet, and no requirements pursuant to the San Remo Agreement.

The Balfour Agreement did not have any authoritative reach over the State of Israel.

There is probably cause for a claim under Article 49 of the GCIV.  But it is by no means a slam-dunk.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Victory67 (Feb 7, 2014)

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100 billion American dollars have been given to Israel.  That justifies our concern over their flagrant disregard of international law.


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## Victory67 (Feb 7, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Victory67,  _et al,_
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> Yes, we know.  Remembering that both sides have unclean hands.  The difference is that the Palestinian plays the part of the perpetual victim.
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Israel knows that they have violated the 4th Geneva Conventions.  This is why they have stopped confiscating private land in the West Bank for "military purposes" (as per the rights of an Occupying Power) and turned the land into settlements, since 1979.  They knew the jig was up and had to find a new scheme.

Now they convert private property into State Land, without the permission of the owners.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Israel violates the 4th Geneva Conventions.
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> Israel violates the UN Charter Article 80
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 You violate humanity with your constant NAZI ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATING.   which muslim hate site did you get this from then. How about you produce the actual evidence of these violations.

 By the way 3 of the above were finished with before Israel was formed and Israel was not a signatory to any of them. SO HOW CAN THE VIOLATE THEM ?


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

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 More is given to arab nations that disregard international law, so why pick on Israel,  could it be cos they are JOOOOOOOOOS


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## Billo_Really (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> More is given to arab nations that disregard international law, so why pick on Israel,  could it be cos they are JOOOOOOOOOS


No, it's because they violate international law.


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## Billo_Really (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> You violate humanity with your constant NAZI ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATING.   which muslim hate site did you get this from then. How about you produce the actual evidence of these violations.
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> By the way 3 of the above were finished with before Israel was formed and Israel was not a signatory to any of them. SO HOW CAN THE VIOLATE THEM ?


You think stating the law is anti-Semitic? 

Did you move to planet earth?


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


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 So do the arabs and Americans, yet you and your fellow NAZIS only seem bothered with Israel is it because they are JOOOOOOOS


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


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It is when there are more gross violations of International law by the muslims and Americans that you totally ignore.   Then it becomes a RACIAL ATTACK making it ANTI SEMITIC.  You know just like your hero's did in Germany in the 1930's and 1940's.    DO you want to man one of the gas chambers ?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Victory67,  _et al,_
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> Yes, we know.  Remembering that both sides have unclean hands.  The difference is that the Palestinian plays the part of the perpetual victim.
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Outstanding response as usual, R.  My own response to the OP about this would be there is no such thing as international law.  It simply has no authority over Israel.  Israel is a sovereign nation.  She abides by her own laws as she should.    Flanders once wrote an excellent piece on the buzz word - international law - and how it was used repeatedly by the UN in speeches to gain some credibility - I hope he will write it again.  I never forgot his brilliant article about it - he must have wrote it about 12 years ago.  Everything he wrote has played out exactly as he predicted!  

 - Jeri


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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Wrong.  Israel has received loans from the US which she does repay.  In fact, out of all the nations we give money to Israel is the ONLY ONE who pays back her loans.   Once again proving the integrity and honor of the Israeli govt vs. corrupt govts around the world who do not even keep their pledges to other countries for catastrophic events - much less pay back the loans they get from the USA.  

There is no justification for concern because there is no such international law.  Therefore, the Israelis haven't disregarded anything but background noise. 

 - Jeri


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

I would love to see a Flanders response on this thread.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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Sally.. face it.. it never been about religion.. Its about a landgrab.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


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*Israel has NEVER repaid a loan. See Cranston Amendment*

U.S. aid to Israel has some unique
aspects, such as loans with repayment waived,
or a pledge to provide Israel with economic
assistance equal to the amount Israel owes the
United States for previous loans. 

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB85066.pdf


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## Billo_Really (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> So do the arabs and Americans,


They haven't violated that many!



Phoenall said:


> yet you and your fellow NAZIS only seem bothered with Israel is it because they are JOOOOOOOS


This has nothing to do with Judaism.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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That is utter nonsense.  Of course Israel has paid back loans she received from the US before!   Read a Mike Evans book and learn the facts.   The Quartet has pulled strings repeatedly to hold back those loans until Israel jumped through one hoop or another - the roadmap to no where.......  but yes, she does pay them back.  I don't know where you're getting your information but you're wrong.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


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Click on the link.. Its a brief for Congress.

Also available from the Library of Congress.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 8, 2014)

Those with the intent to destroy violate the laws of humanity virtually every other day.................

Firing Rockets and missiles into Israel...............

Suicide bombers and terrorist attacks...............

So, the anti-semites would have Israel not return fire........................Let them stop trying to destroy Israel and perhaps they would see an end to the IDF slinging Laser guided missiles back at them...


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## Billo_Really (Feb 8, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Those with the intent to destroy violate the laws of humanity virtually every other day.................
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> Firing Rockets and missiles into Israel...............
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The rockets are in response to Israeli air strikes, targeted killings and the continuing 47 year occupation of Palestinian land.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


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Two sides to every story...........You choose to side with those who would utterly destroy Israel if they could.......They have tried many times in the past..........and you cherry pick history and sides................


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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Israel Jewish News: Haym Salomon, The Jew Who Saved America

Click on this link...... It's a brief for those who don't know the true history of America and how Valley Forge was saved - due to the generosity of this Philadephian Jew who was never repaid.  Now even if we repaid his loan at 7 percent interest from the time he gave it to today - we would of course be repaying it to Israel - we would owe Israel about 3 trillion dollars.   We haven't given Israel 3 trillion dollars yet but when we hit that mark it will be time to call it a "loan"... until then?  We owe Israel.  Big time.  

Haym always considered America his promised land until he and his fellow Jewish brethren could return to their homeland of Israel - he even said so.. he knew the day would come... I'm sure if he were alive today he would be delighted to learn America had repaid her debt to Israel for what Haym did for us.  As of this writing, we have not.  

  - Jeri


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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Nobody is going to destroy Israel.. That's a lie you continue to tell yourselves to justify taking Arab land.

Watch the Dark Charisma of Adolph Hitler.. He blamed the Jews and the Communists for EVERYTHING... and whipped up fear.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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Haym was an Israeli?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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Well as the Arabs, Persians, Egyptians, Turks, Syrians, ( Islamic nations ) own 99.4 percent of the middle east I must agree with you.  It is about a land grab and the world can clearly see that Israel should not be handing over one more inch of what belongs to her.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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An exiled Israeli.  Yes.  A Hebrew waiting for his homeland to be returned to his people.  His dream has come true.  I wish he was here to see it today.  Yay!  G-d!  We owe Haym Solomon a huge debt of gratitude and can repay it by blessing Israel the way he blessed America.  We haven't done that yet.  I believe we will yet have our chance.   Anything else?  - Jeri


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 8, 2014)

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Fitting you talk about Hitler on this topic..................Perhaps you need to take a look at Arafat's family tree and the waffen SS...............

Then get back to me.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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Oh for God's sake .. the Palestinians have been there over 2,000 years.  It doesn't matter until some armed refugee want YOUR house.

Rothchild warned .

Rothschild urged Zionists: Work hard, get along with Arab neighbors - Features Israel News | Haaretz


Rothschild urged Zionists: Work hard, get along with Arab neighbors

100 years ago this month, Baron Rothschild warned the residents of Zichron Yaakov to make sure their Arab 'relatives' were beside them and not against them, documents show.

 By Ofer Aderet	 |  Feb. 8, 2014 | 3:00 AM 



Baron Binyamin Ben-Yaakov de Rothschild in Zichron Yaakov, 1914. 





Rothschild urged Zionists: Work hard, get along with Arab neighbors 



By Ofer Aderet   |03:00 AM  






















.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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Arafat was born in 1929.. and he wasn't related to the Mufti... or anyone in Bosnia.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

*Arafat's full name was Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa. Mohammed Abdel Rahman was his first name, Abdel Raouf was his father's name and Arafat his grandfather's. 

Al-Qudwa was the name of his tribe and al-Husseini was that of the clan to which the al-Qudwas belonged. al-Husseini was based in Gaza and should not be confused with the well-known, but unrelated, al-Husayni clan of Jerusalem.*


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 8, 2014)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy3aDIatrY0]Nazi Collaborators The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin el Husseini - YouTube[/ame]

Take a look at true history and learn the origins of the PLO and the Grand Mufti.....................

While your at it take a look at the Armenian Genocide.................

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A1emayyhmI]The Armenian Genocide - YouTube[/ame]

WARNING the last video posted contains graphic images.........Heads on stakes.............to the PEACEFUL nature of the so called persecuted PLO............


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 8, 2014)

Cherry picking history by the Pali's to condemn Israel for defending themselves............

Perhaps the Muslims in this region should have been on the side of Humanity in WWII...........

Maybe then I could be sympathetic to their cause.......................

Now they continue their goals that have basically remained unchanged since WWII........


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Nazi Collaborators The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin el Husseini - YouTube
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> Take a look at true history and learn the origins of the PLO and the Grand Mufti.....................
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Arafat wasn't related to the Mufti..  You want Israeli propaganda or the truth?

Yasser Arafat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Cherry picking history by the Pali's to condemn Israel for defending themselves............
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*You might want to look into the FACTS. In particular.. Foreign Volunteers to Waffen SS.*

The Israelis have been destroying their homes, farms and olive groves for over 65 years.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

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 Yes the arab league made that quite clear in May 1948 when they threatened to push the Jews into the sea. It has always been the case with islam that once they have laid claim to land it is dar al islam for eternity.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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That is quite impossible.  Considering there was no such thing as a Palestinian prior to 1960.   Israel is over 4,000 yrs old.  It belongs to the Jews.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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There was no Arab League until the spring of 1945.

There is also Dar es Salaaam.

The Jews were refugees seeking sanctuary from the progroms of Eastern Europe and the rise of Hitler's horrors... but you weren't smart enough to treat your benefactors kindly.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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Hitler had a close relationship with the Grand Mufti of Islam and that is far more concerning when speaking of relations - considering that his book, Mein Kampf remains number one best seller in the arab world today...   why is that and how does that help bring about true and lasting peace between Muslim & Jew in the middle east today?


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


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 Do explain how the arabs have more people on the war criminal list that any other group.

 Then explain why since Vietnam more American soldiers have been accused of war crimes than any other armed forces.


 It has everything to do with Judaism, as that is the only factor for the RACIAL INTOLERANCE  shown, The posts single out the Jews for abuse and lies while ignoring the reality of what is happening at the same time elsewhere.
 Like the code red alerts in Southern Israel when rockets are fired at civilian areas. Let the IDF retaliate and the anti semitic Jew haters go ape shit about Israel's breaches of International Law and the Geneva conventions.     WHAT IS THAT OTHER THAN RACISM AND NAZI JEW HATRED


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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Palestine was a province of Syria dating back to 500 BC. 

Both Chaucer and Shakespeare refer to Palestine.

If you had a better grasp of history, you'd know that Israel/Palestine was never exclusively Jewish... It was for most of its history a vassal state that paid tribute to other countries or empires.

Further, when I was just a girl in the early 1950s..  the people who lived in Palestine and the refugees all over the ME were called Palestinians.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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Hitler actually met the Mufti for 15 minutes and wouldn't shake his hand. Your lies cripple you.. Nobody reads Mein Kampf in the Arab world. Its not relevant today .. not relevant to the Arabs. Never was...


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

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 Which are in response to rocket attacks targeting children.

 Do you want to go back to august 2005 AND EXPLAIN WHAT THE ROCKET ATTACKS ON ISRAEL WERE FOR THEN. And for the next 2 years as well when not one Israeli weapon was fired into gaza and still 100 rocket attacks every day.

 In war you expect casualties and targeted killings, every enemy soldier is a target.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 8, 2014)

Arafat's Hero.........Uncle Mufti........related via his mom's family tree.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75mJrJ6gbA]Yasser Arafat´s Hero - YouTube[/ame]


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 8, 2014)

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LOL

Liar Liar pants on fire.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

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 Just take it back to August 2005 and it shows who is attacking who. The fact that Israel withdrew from gaza and offered no military return of fire showed to the world that the arab muslims had no intention of peace.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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If you don't stop reinforcing your lies and ignorance, there is no hope for peace.. or for the longevity of Israel. When the demographics tip.. Israelis with means will leave.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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They were bosom buddies and there are plenty of photographs of them together on the internet.  Google it.  As for the Arab League.......  your response to Phoenall is not all together accurate because the Arab League was most definitely formed and responding by May 14 - 15 , 1948 - to Israel - the very same Arab League of Govts today - this is off Wikipedia referring to Arab League - note the dates - 1947.      Get your facts straight.


 The Arab League as a wholeThe Arab League had unanimously rejected the UN partition plan and were bitterly opposed to the establishment of a Jewish state.

The Arab League before partition affirmed the right to the independence of Palestine, while blocking the creation of a Palestinian government.[clarification needed] Towards the end of 1947, the League established a military committee commanded by the retired Iraqi general Isma'il Safwat whose mission was to analyse the chance of victory of the Palestinians against the Jews.

{{{{ NOTE THE DATE - By the end of 1947, the League established a military committee...... 1947 is prior to Israel becoming a nation.  thanks.  }}}}}


[68] His conclusions were that they had no chance of victory and that an invasion of the Arab regular armies was mandatory.[68] The political committee nevertheless rejected these conclusions and decided to support an armed opposition to the Partition Plan excluding the participation of their regular armed forces.[69]

In April with the Palestinian defeat, the refugees coming from Palestine and the pressure of their public opinion, the Arab leaders decided to invade Palestine.[70]

The Arab League gave reasons for its invasion in Palestine in the cablegram:[71]

the Arab states find themselves compelled to intervene in order restore law and order and to check further bloodshed
the Mandate over Palestine has come to an end, leaving no legally constituted authority
the only solution of the Palestine problem is the establishment of a unitary Palestinian state.
Some unofficial statements before the war had been more aggressive. Arab League Secretary Azzam Pasha, according to an interview in an 11 October 1947 article of Akhbar al-Yom, said: "I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades"[undue weight? &#8211; discuss].[72]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_League   ( founded March 22, 1945 )


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 8, 2014)

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Your side doesn't want peace.............They've made that clear throughout history..........

What you want is to turn the world against Israel because your side can't win on the battle field.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

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 It is the stated edict of the arab league to destroy Israel and to push the Jews into the sea. It is a stated fact that the Koran commands every muslim to kill every Jew.

 Care to comment on these ?


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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Of course the Arabs objected.... they were over run with hostile refugees who wanted their homes and land. Palestinians have paid for the Holocaust and the Eastern European persecution of the Jews with their land and blood.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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You obviously haven't read the Koran.. or you read one verse out of context.

Its talking about defensive war.. and the rules of warfare.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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Hint*  May 1948 comes AFTER Spring of 1945.   In other words, the Arab League was in existence.  As Israel is over 4,000 yrs old you are their guests, not the reverse...  heed your own advice.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 8, 2014)

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And they will continue to die as long as they choose violence and choose to not accept Israel's right to exist........


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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There are 109 verses that are not about defensive warfare but rules of warfare in the Qur'an. ( against the infidel - starting with Jews / Christians )   Perhaps you need to have another look at that.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

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 And the JEWS have been there for over 3,500 years.   And for the record your "Palestinians" have only been there for 200 years at the most, with a few going back to the very beginning in 632C.E.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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Ibn Saud met with Roosevelt on board the USS Quincy in Feb 1945 and said the Jews should be given the best land in Germany.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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You must be kidding me.  Israel was a veritable desert / wasteland - Mark Twain said so in his book - it was a ghost town with a few nomads.   The Jews get their homeland back and suddenly everyone is a long lost palestinian.  

  It only took them until 1960 to figure out that was what they would call themselves ( palestinians)  to confuse the issue and lead others to believe they actually had some claim to the land.  Where did all these long lost Palestinians come from?  Jordan and other neighboring nations.  There was a recent speech in Egypt where they admitted there really are not any "palestinian people" over there - but the claim works so they keep using it.....  propaganda.  What can you do?

You got anything else before i go clean my house?   Hurry up...


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

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 You refuse to believe the truth when it shows your beloved muslims for what they are, but you cant go against the words in the Koran that shows them to be violent murdering child rapists. Just like the perfect muslim Mohamed.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

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 While the muslims have been raping and mass murdering Jews for the past 1400 years. Stealing their land and crops and evicting the Jews from the land.

 PAYBACKS A BITCH


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

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You are being ridiculous.. and anyone on the board who has read the Koran know that.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

There are 109 murder verses commanding extreme violence against non muslims and identifying Christian and Jew as those they should not befriend or trust.  Anyone who has read the Qu'ran knows that too.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> There are 109 murder verses commanding extreme violence against non muslims and identifying Christian and Jew as those they should not befriend or trust.  Anyone who has read the Qu'ran knows that too.



Do you know what the rules are and what DEFENSIVE war means?

"Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

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> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



4,000 and although you may be right that a few went back to 632 C.E. they would have been called Caanites - one more thing - I cannot stress this enough - these people even 200 yrs ago WERE NOT CALLING THEMSELVES PALESTINIANS - NOT EVEN PRIOR TO 1960!  

Arafat was taught by the Russians to use the term Palestinian after his training in Baleshinka special ops school over there.  That came from someone inside the state dept and they have never backed off their story.  Arafat was trained in propaganda techniques, etc, by the Russians and in 1960 the long lost Palestinian people were found! 

 Wonder of wonders!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...






 The Jews were already there as landowners and the muslims came looking for work, starting in the mid 1800's. The land was considered dar al islam so could be taken from the Jews at any time. In fact Hebron was taken from the Jews 3 times by the muslims. Any land not owned by a muslim is considered to be dar al harb  or land at war. 
Those Jews came many years after the initial progress was made towards a Jewish homeland agreed with the Jews who lived in Palestine .

 Don't try to remove those Jews who had uninterrupted lineage back before Mohamed was born.


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## Billo_Really (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Which are in response to rocket attacks targeting children.
> 
> Do you want to go back to august 2005 AND EXPLAIN WHAT THE ROCKET ATTACKS ON ISRAEL WERE FOR THEN. And for the next 2 years as well when not one Israeli weapon was fired into gaza and still 100 rocket attacks every day..




You are full of shit!

July 12, 2006



> _*Israel killed 22 Palestinians in Gaza, including nine civilians from one family.* An economic, political and physical siege has been placed on the Palestinian people. *In the past two weeks, the Israeli bombardment has killed eighty Palestinians, knocked out power and water for the majority of Gaza&#8217;s 1.3 million inhabitants, and pummeled Gaza&#8217;s infrastructure with thousands of artillery shells. *The international community has been silent on the sidelines, while Israeli forces bombed Gaza back twenty years&#8212; While the premeditated assault on Gaza continues, Israel still holds nearly 10,000 abducted Palestinians, including many members of the Palestinian government. _


Is that what you call _"not one Israeli weapon"?_

Israel only left Gaza, they didn't leave the area.

Summer of 2006


> _*Gaza &#8220;is virtually sealed.* Almost all Gaza residents are barred from entering Israel, and the border crossing with Egypt has been closed for most of the last two months, turning the entire coastal strip into a slow-burning impoverished prison.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;It&#8217;s blazing hot every day; the electricity comes and goes. And when there&#8217;s no electricity, there&#8217;s no water.&#8221;
> 
> *&#8220;The Israelis left the Gaza Strip last fall. But now they seem to be everywhere at once &#8212; on the ground, in the air and even on the other end of the telephone as a voice warning civilians in accented Arabic of impending missile strikes.&#8221; *_


Yeah, they left Gaza alright?

Here's some more of your "no weapon" Israeli's....

June 2006



> _Since the start of the month, *Israeli forces have killed nearly 50 Palestinians, the majority of them being innocent civilians*.
> 
> Although extrajudicial assassinations (which kill many innocent civilians and frequently miss the target) are against international law, Israel has continued this policy with virtual impunity. _


Now shut the fuck up about Israel not firing a shot after 2005!




Phoenall said:


> In war you expect casualties and targeted killings, every enemy soldier is a target.


And every civilian is not.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > There are 109 murder verses commanding extreme violence against non muslims and identifying Christian and Jew as those they should not befriend or trust.  Anyone who has read the Qu'ran knows that too.
> ...


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## Billo_Really (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> The Jews were already there as landowners and the muslims came looking for work, starting in the mid 1800's. The land was considered dar al islam so could be taken from the Jews at any time. In fact Hebron was taken from the Jews 3 times by the muslims. Any land not owned by a muslim is considered to be dar al harb  or land at war.
> Those Jews came many years after the initial progress was made towards a Jewish homeland agreed with the Jews who lived in Palestine .
> 
> Don't try to remove those Jews who had uninterrupted lineage back before Mohamed was born.


They didn't come looking for work, because there was no work being offered.  Once land was acquired by jewish owners, only jews could work on the land.  That was part of the purchase agreement.  

And there was no major arab migration into Palestine.  I've already proven this to you and yet you keep pushing these bullshit lies.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...






 Not the same Palestine as that of today.

 Well they would seeing as they came how many centuries after it was named. They even came 700 years after the birth of islam,

And was only a vassal state of Arabic islam for 22 years, so what claim do they have on the land now ?

Yes as that was what the Jews were called back then, it was a dirty word thought up by the arabs


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
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Sure they were called Palestinians in early 1950.. Thousands of them worked in Saudi Arabia and some went to my church.

Palestinians or a mix of Canaanites, Early Arab migrations, Syrians, Greeks, Turks, Crusaders and Jews who didn't leave Palestine.

Who do you think planted, watered and tended all those 500 year old olive trees? It wasn't a Jews from the Ukraine. Who do you think maintained the Roman era terraces?

There's a lot more to the history of Palestine and the Levant than your narrow, Jewish version of history.


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## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 8, 2014)

I think we're done here.   I have to go clean my house now.   Have a nice day, you guys!  - Jeri


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
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For God's sake.. don't be a dummy.. Arabs have been around for thousands of years before Islam.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





Mein Kampf in the Arabic language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
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> > Jeremiah said:
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They sure went to a lot of trouble to get Arabs to read it??

Meanwhile, there is  only one photo of Hitler and the Mufti.. Hitler is leaning forward in his chair.


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel violates the 4th Geneva Conventions.
> ...



Nazi anti-Semitic Jew hating????  What are you talking about???

How is it anti-Semitic to point out that Israel has violated the "protection of non-Jewish rights" stipulations in the Balfour Declaration, San Remo Conference, and Mandate for Palestine?

The 4th Geneva Conventions says that Occupying Powers, which Israel is, cannot confiscate private land for anything but military purposes.  Israel has signed the 4th GC and therefore they are bound to them.  Most of their larger settlements are built on land confiscated from private land owners and converted to civilian settlements, which violates the 4th GC.

This is why the Israeli Supreme Court in 1979 decided that such settlements and confiscations are ILLEGAL and Israel "stopped" doing such confiscations and instead started to convert private property to "State Land", which is also illegal as State Land is only supposed to be used for the bettermend of the whole society and not just one segment.

Peace Now has put together a comprehensive report of all the settlements, using info privided to them by the Israeli govt., and found out that around 33% of all settlement land is actually Palestinian private property.


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



We have given Israel $100 billion.

We routinely veto resolutions in the United Nations Security Council, in order to defend Israel.

We have been working very hard to establish peace between Israel and its neighbors since 1979.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





 While there is one arab muslim then there will never be world peace


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...




Accusing everyone who critisizes Israel's violations of International Law, as being "Nazis", isn't very good for your argument and makes it look very silly.  You can't honestly believe that everyone who critisizes Israel is a "Nazi".


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Good grief... you certainly are hateful.

We just aren't on the same page.. I am not going to bash your religion or call you names or threaten you.


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



You accuse others of being "Nazis" and bigoted and now you utter this?

Unbelievable.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...







 There were no refugees in 1919 when the original deal was put together. The only hostile's were the hordes of muslims flooding into the land looking for work. Right throughout the 1920's, '30's and '40's the muslim population exceeded that of the Jews and Christians combined so how were they over run. The holocaust had nothing to do with the formation of Israel as it had been decided before WW2 even started. The problem extends back to 632 C.E. when Mohamed wiped out the Jewish tribe


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
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> > Shaarona said:
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 When it says " kill the jews" that is not defence or out of context is it

 Typical islamonazi response to the violent nature of islam


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





 And no one agreed with him, and went ahead with the terms set out in the Mcmahon letters


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
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 You would be surprised at just how many people now read the Koran and see the commands in there. How it commands muslims to convert by the sword, chop of heads and hands, rape children, LIE, Be deceitful, steal and above all continue the genocide of the Jews


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > There are 109 murder verses commanding extreme violence against non muslims and identifying Christian and Jew as those they should not befriend or trust.  Anyone who has read the Qu'ran knows that too.
> ...






YES as I have seen so called Islamic defence, it is when a gang of muslims attack a schoolboy with hammers and iron bars because he might have said something that dishonoured a muslim.

 Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Which are in response to rocket attacks targeting children.
> ...





 And between August 2005 and July 2006 how maqny rockest were fired at Israel without a single return of fire ?


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



What? Herzl was running around from pillar to post before the first Zionist Congress around 1900.

Zionism is a modern movement, forged not by Biblical dreams but by a desperate desire to escape the consequences of anti-Semitism in especially in Russia and Eastern Europe. There is no question that Jews were being scapegoated for the turmoil inherent in changing capitalism of Russia in particular. There is no question that they were socialists and communists... unlike Jews in Western Europe.

Nathan Weinstock argues in his important book Zionism: False Messiah (1979), early Zionism was a doctrine whose starting point was &#8216;the incompatibility of the Jews and the Gentiles&#8217;.

There is only ONE photo of Hitler and the Mufti.. The same photo.. Hitler is seated and leaning forward.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 8, 2014)

Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

15,407 Mortars and Rockets fired into Israel from 2001 to 2012...........


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 15,407 Mortars and Rockets fired into Israel from 2001 to 2012...........



Its a rotten deal that should have been anticipated 60 years ago...


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > The Jews were already there as landowners and the muslims came looking for work, starting in the mid 1800's. The land was considered dar al islam so could be taken from the Jews at any time. In fact Hebron was taken from the Jews 3 times by the muslims. Any land not owned by a muslim is considered to be dar al harb  or land at war.
> ...






The Jews bought the land from the ottoman owners and turned it into viable farmland, the muslims came on the promise of work on the Jewish farms. I did not say that there was work for them I said they came looking for work. 

If there was no arab migration how did the population always stay double of that of the Jews and Christians combined. It could only be by mass immigration or the genocide of the Jewish and Christian population


 here are some facts about muslim migration to Palestine.

Arab- Muslim Waves of Immigration to Palestine (the Land of Israel )/ DR.Rivka Shpak Lissak | Rivka Shpak Lissak

 The Population during Ottomans' Rule (1516  1918)

The cities along the shores of the Mediterranean Sea remained deserted until the Ottoman government started to restore their ruins and invited Arabs and Muslims to settle there. This happened during the 18th- 19th centuries

 The third wave began after the occupation of the country by the Turks during the 16th and 17th centuries. Arabs, mainly Bedouins, and Muslims from Lebanon, and Syria came to settle in the Galilee. According to the Turkish census, by the 16th century, there were about 200,000 people in the country of Western Jordan, mostly Muslims. But the economic situation and the lack of personal security caused people to leave, Muslims included.

During the 18th century the population became smaller and smaller Tourists from Europe and the United States who visited the country described an uncultivated deserted land.

 The last and the largest wave came between around the middle of the 19th century and 1948 when Israel was established. This wave started during the conquest of the country by the son of Muhammad Ali between 1832 1840.Egypt settled along the shore and the valleys, about 100,000 Egyptian peasants. Also, Arabs and Muslims were invited by the Ottoman rulers to settle in the deserted country. The Zuabbian tribe was invited in 1873 from Irbid, Trans-Jordan to settle in the southern Galilee and the Izrael Valley. Muslims from Muslim countries such as Kurds and Cireassians settled in the north.

Historians are divided on the size of the population on the eve of the British conquest of Palestine. The rate of the Arab-Muslim population was about 250,000.

The second part of the largest wave came during the British Mandate occupation, between 1917 and 1948 when Israel was established. Arabs and Muslims from Arabic and Muslim countries entered illegally the country under the Turks and latter the British mandate from the eastern, northern and southern borders looking for jobs created by the Zionist movement and latter by the British Mandate (1918  1948).
 The Arab population of the Sharon area (between Tel Aviv and Haifa, the center of Jewish settlements) grew from 10,000 to more than 30,000 from 1922  1940s.
 The Arab population of the south (between Jaffa and the Egyptian border) grew by more than 200% between 1917  1940s. About 35,000 Arabs from the Haurain, South Syria came looking for work.

 In Short, from about 250,000 around the end of the 19th century, many of them bedouins, the Arabic population grew to about 1,250,000 in 1948. The Palestinian claim that they are the ancient population of the so called Palestine has no ground.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...






 It was the JEWS from Palestine who had lived there uninterrupted for 3,500 years. That is 3,000 years more than the arab muslims who arrived in the late 1800's


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



The Jews owned 6% of the land in 1948.. 

In the early years Jewish immigrants failed so badly at farming that they turned around and went home.

Arab tribes were settled in Samaaria by Sargon 2 around 700 BC.

Galilee and the Decapolis were prosperous.. Jerusalem was not.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





 And so have the JEWS and they lived in Palestine and tended farms for over 3,500 years. The Palestinians you clamour about have been shown to be recent arrivals at the request of the ottomans to the barren land of Palestine.

 In Short, from about 250,000 around the end of the 19th century, many of them bedouins, the Arabic population grew to about 1,250,000 in 1948. The Palestinian claim that they are the ancient population of the so called Palestine has no ground.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

When British armies entered the country during the last war (WW1), they found 500,000 Arabs and only 65,000 Jews.
snip

In 1932, the year before Hitler came to power, only 9,500 Jews came to Palestine. We did not welcome them, but we were not afraid that, at that rate, our solid Arab majority would ever be in danger.

But the next year&#8212;the year of Hitler&#8212;it jumped to 30,000! In 1934 it was 42,000! In 1935 it reached 61,000! 

It was no longer the orderly arrival of idealist Zionists. Rather, all Europe was pouring its frightened Jews upon us. Then, at last, we, too, became frightened. We knew that unless this enormous influx stopped, we were, as Arabs, doomed in our Palestine homeland. And we have not changed our minds.


King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein (1882-1951)   11/1947


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## pbel (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



It really is incredible how you distort history and the truth with such delusional conviction...The Arabs of this area have been genetically proven to have preceded the Hebrews of ancient times...Stop your greedy lying.


Palestinian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times.* A study of high-resolution haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Israeli Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool.[31] Since the time of the Muslim conquests in the 7th century, religious conversions have resulted in Palestinians being predominantly Sunni Muslim by religious affiliation, though there is a significant Palestinian Christian minority of various Christian denominations, as well as Druze and a small Samaritan community. Though Palestinian Jews made up part of the population of Palestine prior to the creation of the State of Israel, few identify as "Palestinian" today. Acculturation, independent from conversion to Islam, resulted in Palestinians being linguistically and culturally Arab.[18] The vernacular of Palestinians, irrespective of religion, is the Palestinian dialect of Arabic. Many Arab citizens of Israel including Palestinians are bilingual and fluent in Hebrew


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## RoccoR (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona,  _et al,_

There is, without question, a note of sadness here.  It is the shadow of xenophobia, in which the indigenous population, spoken off the tongue of second son to Hussein bin Ali, Sharif of Mecca and King of the Hejaz, himself a foreigner to the region. 

It was not so long ago (5 November 2013, GA/SHC/4085), some six and a half decades later, that the worries and concepts expressed by HM King Abdullah bin Al-Hussein, Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, were still being discussed in open forum, as fresh as if they were new today.

HM the King (Abdullah I) knew then, that all peoples have the right to self-determination; a freedom to determine their political status and pursue their economic, social and cultural development.  But HM also knew that it runs head-long into the need to elimination of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance, that obstruct the right of self-determination.  In many ways, HM was a man before his time; a man who would feel the pain of immigration, yet know it was wrong to resist the winds of change.    



Shaarona said:


> When British armies entered the country during the last war (WW1), they found 500,000 Arabs and only 65,000 Jews.
> snip
> 
> In 1932, the year before Hitler came to power, only 9,500 Jews came to Palestine. We did not welcome them, but we were not afraid that, at that rate, our solid Arab majority would ever be in danger.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

In the case of the Palestinian and the State thereof; they know it as well, saying:  The right to self-determination belongs to all, and doesnt come after negotiations.  Presumably they understand that this would also include the Israelis as well.  

When we talk about the right of self-determination, it must be set in the frames for which the actors operated, and the environment for which the actors were immersed.  For instance, in the 20 years (1947 to 1967) following the outbreak of hostilities, when the territory we now call the State of Palestine had been under Arab control _(the West Bank Annexed by Jordan and the Gaza Strip Occupied by Egypt)_, the Palestinian made absolutely no attempt at the establishment of a Palestinian State.  

If that is the key _(total Arab Dominance)_, then doesn't it only make sense that the Palestinian dissolve the current State and reconsider relinquishing their sovereignty back to these States _(Egypt & Jordan)_?  That would bring immediate peace to the region under the current treaties.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

The first thing Israel needs to do is STOP violating international law.

That means no more expansion of existing settlements onto land that is privately owned, and no more declaring private land as "State Land", to be used just for Israelis.


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## Shaarona (Feb 8, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Shaarona,  _et al,_
> 
> There is, without question, a note of sadness here.  It is the shadow of xenophobia, in which the indigenous population, spoken off the tongue of second son to Hussein bin Ali, Sharif of Mecca and King of the Hejaz, himself a foreigner to the region.
> 
> ...



He suffered wild temper tantrums and mental illness. When he declared himself Caliph, he was chased off the Arabian peninsula within weeks.


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## rhodescholar (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> The first thing Israel needs to do is STOP violating international law.  That means no more expansion of existing settlements onto land that is privately owned, and no more declaring private land as "State Land", to be used just for Israelis.



The first thing that needs to happen is for ***** like you to get the fuck off of these boards, and go back to stormfront.

For the intelligent, let's discuss truly horrible situations like these:

Syrian regime document trove shows evidence of 'industrial scale' killing of detainees | World news | The Guardian


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Once Israel stops violating international laws that they signed decades ago, then perhaps the world will start viewing them in a positive light.

As long as they keep stealing land and building civilian settlements on stolen land, many in the world will hate Israel.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Israel violates the 4th Geneva Conventions.
> 
> Israel violates the UN Charter Article 80
> 
> ...



Plus, Jews are successful and Muslims fail.


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel violates the 4th Geneva Conventions.
> ...



Totally irrelevent to this discussion.  Israel's disregard of international laws that they have commited to abide by is the issue.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



Muslims need to stop blaming their failures on the Jews.


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## rhodescholar (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Totally irrelevent to this discussion.  Israel's disregard of international laws that they have commited to abide by is the issue.



Yet another mentally ill trolling piece of shit flowing through these forums like what one sees out of a homeless person's pants in the subway at 2 am... 

Feces likes this does not even know what an international law is, and of course will never mention how the 22 arab nations violate the human rights of its citizens every day - but it is the jews who have to be targeted all day, every day.  So, so boring...


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Israel violates the 4th Geneva Conventions.



Wrong.  Israel rejects the interpretation of the convention applying it to Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, stating that those territories were captured in 1967 *as a result of a defensive war against countries which had illegally occupied them since 1948.*



Victory67 said:


> Israel violates the UN Charter Article 80



Wrong.  Article 80 of the UN Charter, once known unofficially as the Jewish Peoples clause, *which preserves intact all the rights granted to Jews under the Mandate for Palestine, even after the Mandates expiry on May 14-15, 1948. Under this provision of international law (the Charter is an international treaty), Jewish rights to Palestine and the Land of Israel were not to be altered in any way unless there had been an intervening trusteeship agreement between the states or parties concerned, which would have converted the Mandate into a trusteeship or trust territory. *



Victory67 said:


> Israel violates the Mandate for Palestine.



How?



Victory67 said:


> Israel violates the San Remo Conference.



How?



Victory67 said:


> Israel violates the Balfour Declaration.



How?



Victory67 said:


> Why do they think they can continue to violate this many international laws and not be hated for it?



Your name says it all   Victory 1967


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## Billo_Really (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> And between August 2005 and July 2006 how maqny rockest were fired at Israel without a single return of fire ?


Moving the goal posts?


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## Billo_Really (Feb 8, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Wrong.  Israel rejects the interpretation of the convention applying it to Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, stating that those territories were captured in 1967 *as a result of a defensive war against countries which had illegally occupied them since 1948.*


So basically what you're saying is that you think Israel is above the law?


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 8, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong.  Israel rejects the interpretation of the convention applying it to Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, stating that those territories were captured in 1967 *as a result of a defensive war against countries which had illegally occupied them since 1948.*
> ...



I have told you many times that if it is a defensive war where land is gained then it is legal.


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> When British armies entered the country during the last war (WW1), they found 500,000 Arabs and only 65,000 Jews.
> snip
> 
> In 1932, the year before Hitler came to power, only 9,500 Jews came to Palestine. We did not welcome them, but we were not afraid that, at that rate, our solid Arab majority would ever be in danger.
> ...






 Still does not alter the facts that the muslims kept pace with the migration and always managed to stay at double the combined population of Jews and Christians.


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## Billo_Really (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Still does not alter the facts that the muslims kept pace with the migration and always managed to stay at double the combined population of Jews and Christians.


Why do you keep pushing this lie after I already corrected you on this?


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

pbel said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



Does not make them Palestinians with more than 200 years of presence in the area. Nor does it change the fact that the Jews had a far longer presence in the M.E than any muslim arab.

 Before islam the arabs were a nomadic culture after islam they became an expansionist regime that would sink to any depths to subvert and control the populace of the lands they invaded


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## Phoenall (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...





 Not one of the above is an actual International law is it. in fact Israel was not around for 4 of them


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



the 4th Geneva Conventions is an international law, and Israel has sworn to abide by and follow it.

Many Zionists argue that Israel has a right to settle Jews in all of the West Bank, due to the rights afforded to the Jewish people in the Balfour Declaration, the San Remo Conference, and the Mandate for Palestine.  I'm glad to hear you state that these laws are now null and void, and the rights guaranteed to the Jews in these laws are now null & void.

That means that the only laws Israel must still abide by are the 4th GC and the UN Charter, and they both forbid the confiscation of private property in Occupied Territory for civilian housing.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



Occupied Territory? Who was occupied?


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Occupied Territory? Who was occupied?



The land that Bibi Netanyahu called "occupied".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/07/israel-binyamin-netanyahu-palestinians

_"Then came the partition plan in 1947, with the suggestion of an Arab state alongside a Jewish state. The Jews agreed, the Arabs refused. Because the issue was not then the question of a Palestinian state &#8211; the issue was and remains the Jewish state. Then 19 years later came the stranglehold around us aimed at uprooting us. And why? After all, then there was no occupation."_


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Occupied Territory? Who was occupied?
> ...



Who was occupied?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



People aren't Occupied.  Land is Occupied, as per the 4th Geneva Conventions.

I'm sure you are fully aware of this and are just being coy.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



What nation's land was occupied?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> What nation's land was occupied?



Jordan was the legal Occupying Power of the West Bank from 1949 to 1967.

When Israel conquered the West Bank, they became the legal Occupying Power and are now bound by the 4th Geneva Convention's regulations upon Occupying Powers as they are a signatory to the 4th GC.

We know for a fact that Israel recognizes and acknowledges itself as the legal Occupying Power of the West Bank, because from 1967 to 1979 Israel took control of West Bank land that was privately owned, by confiscating it for temporary military purposes, which 100% follows the legal stipulations listed in the 4th GC as how and when an Occupying Power can legally confiscate private property.  

The only problem is that Israel then used the land for permanent civilian settlement, which counters the clear language in the 4th GC.  The Israeli Supreme Court knew this, and therefore declared the practice to be illegal in 1979 when an Israeli settlement told the court that counter to the military's claim that the land was being used temporarily, the land was intended for a permanent civilian settlement.  Since then Israel has instead used the practice of confiscating private land and converting it into "State Land", and using that for settlements and settlement infrastructure.

The problem with this strategy is that according to the 4th GC, which Israel signed, State land in Occupied Territories can only be used by the Occupying Power for the common good of all residents of the Occupied Territory.  Clearly, Israeli settlements and Israeli roads doesn't do much for the Palestinians.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > What nation's land was occupied?
> ...



Thanks for the info. Can you answer my question now?
What nation's land was occupied?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Thanks for the info. Can you answer my question now?
> What nation's land was occupied?



The West Bank is presently Occupied by Israel.

Israel is the Occupying Power of the West Bank.

The West Bank used to be Occupied by Jordan.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the info. Can you answer my question now?
> ...



What nation's land was occupied?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Let's see, it is called occupied *Palestinian* territory.

Damn Toddster, I can see why you are so confused.

That is a tough question.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> What nation's land was occupied?



There is no rule in the 4th Geneva Convention that Occupied Land can only be land that was formally belonging to another state by legal annexation or older form of confiscation.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > What nation's land was occupied?
> ...



Indeed, If you can only occupy "a state" then what state was Jordan occupying?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeed, If you can only occupy "a state" then what state was Jordan occupying?



There is no rule in the 4th GC that Occupied Territory means land conquered in a war that formally was part of another state.


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## toastman (Feb 8, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Where does it say that you can only occupy a state ??


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



I don't know. Israel says it all the time.


----------



## toastman (Feb 8, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



What do you mean you don't know? You responded to his post by saying indeed.


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

Occupied Territory is any land that has been taken over during a war, that formally did not belong to that nation which now controls the land.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



I was just throwing out one of those questions that are never answered.


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## toastman (Feb 8, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Jordan was occupying the West Bank.


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> Jordan was occupying the West Bank.



Yes.  And now Israel is the legal Occupier.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 8, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



The West Bank was a state?


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## Victory67 (Feb 8, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> The West Bank was a state?



It doesn't have to have been a state, or legally part of another state, for it to now be Occupied Territory.


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## toastman (Feb 8, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



What nation's land was occupied?


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > What nation's land was occupied?
> ...



So it didn't belong to anyone.
No state to give it back to, I think they should keep it.


----------



## pbel (Feb 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Just what do you mean? Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership, or is it the right wing serenade of there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?

Your double talk will never fly in the face of justice...


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## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

pbel said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



*Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership*

For the most part, yes.

*there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?*

Correct, twice.


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## pbel (Feb 8, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Well then produce the links that support your view and there won't be a need for the present peace discussions.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 8, 2014)

pbel said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...



You need a link to know there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 9, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot,  Victory67,  _et al,_

There is a lot of confusion in this discussion.

First, in order to answer some of the questions, you have to be specific about:

What period of time we are discussion?
What land or territory we are specifically addressing?



Toddsterpatriot said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Secondly, there is also a difference between confiscation _(real-estate land ownership as a civil matter)_, and annexation _(having nothing to do with civil land ownership, but alters sovereignty)_.

I notice that in a number of Arab-Israeli discussions, this two concepts _(land ownership and sovereignty)_ are often confused or thought to be one and the same thing.  They are not.  Sovereignty does not alter land ownership.

For instance, the entire West Bank, while under occupation, is sovereign Palestinian territory.  And while there are Israeli Settlements inside the West Bank, the land ownership has not changed unless the original Palestinian Owners have been duly compensated, or the land in question changed hands according to local real property  laws.

Private property cannot be confiscated without just cause and proper compensation.
Destruction of real or personal property is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.

Now clearly, the Israeli Settlement Programs in the West Bank must be address as a matter of restitution and reparation in any formal Peace Negotiation.  I think nearly everyone knows this.

Currently, such legal settlements and compensation are being held hostage to a good faith outcome of such negotiation.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> So it didn't belong to anyone.
> No state to give it back to, I think they should keep it.



much of the West Bank was and is privately owned by Palestinians.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

pbel said:


> Just what do you mean? Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership, or is it the right wing serenade of there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?
> 
> Your double talk will never fly in the face of justice...



Thanks to the hard work by Peace Now using information provided to them by the Israeli govt., the world now knows to what extent Israel has stolen private property in the West Bank to build their settlements.

Around 33% of all land that the settlements are built on, was stolen from Palestinian private land owners.


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> I have told you many times that if it is a defensive war where land is gained then it is legal.


It's not a defensive war, if you're the one who fired the first shot.  

Since Israel fired the first shot, you need to drop this "defensive war" BS.

As far as your claim "to the victor, goes the spoils", you've never produced anything regarding IHL, to prove that was true.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...






And the right of return that grants them the right to return to their ancestral homes stolen by the muslim hordes in 1948.   Or do you think that the Jews should not be afforded this INTERNATIONAL LAW and should be evicted from the land they hold title to. So do show were the land they occupy is not theirs with full title.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



The Jews held title to 6% of the land in 1948.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Occupied Territory? Who was occupied?
> ...






 Have you bothered to check on the details of the peace deals made by Israel with Egypt and Jordan, and look at what they told Israel in regards to the land they had annexed in 1948 and lost in 1967. Then come back and tell the world who owns the land ?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > What nation's land was occupied?
> ...






 Wrong the land was annexed and sanctioned by the UN making it Jordanian. It was the original plan to give Jordan the land anyway and have Israel bordered by Jordan. The whole of the area became a huge headache for Jordan and when Israel occupied it in 1967 they were very thankful for the loss. When Israel made the peace deal with Jordan it offered the land back as per UN res 242, the Jordanians told Israel to keep the land and sort it out. So the land ownership passed from Jordan to Israel as a result.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the info. Can you answer my question now?
> ...





 Try again and this time look at the facts. Jordan annexed the land making it part of Jordan in 1948. Israel occupied the land in 1967 until 1994 when Jordan gave it to Israel. Try looking at the history books and not the Islamic hate sites.


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## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...







But as you have already accepted Palestine was not a LEGAL nation until 1988, so who's land is occupied by Israel ?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > What nation's land was occupied?
> ...





 So does this mean that America is in violation of the 4th Geneva convention by occupying American land ?   Because that is what you have just stated above.

The land has to have a nations ownership before it can be occupied, or it is land open to settlement as ownerless.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



There was no international law at that time.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...





 It didn't as it annexed the land with the full support of the UN, so the land became part of Jordan. You should be fully aware of this as you have posted enough links surrounding this aspect on other topics. Israel occupied it from 1967 till 1994 when Jordan gifted Israel with the land.  So now were is your nation of Palestine ?


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## Billo_Really (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> And the right of return that grants them the right to return to their ancestral homes stolen by the muslim hordes in 1948.   Or do you think that the Jews should not be afforded this INTERNATIONAL LAW and should be evicted from the land they hold title to. So do show were the land they occupy is not theirs with full title.


You don't "occupy" land you own.  You own it!

You "occupy" land that isn't yours. And that land, isn't Israel's.  

It never was Israel's and will never be, Israel's.

It was not given to Israel, nor will the world community stand by and let Israel keep that land.  The only thing you can do with an "occupation", is end it.  That is the only option on Israel's table.  They can do it voluntarily on their own, or eventually be forced to.  Either way, they will have their Eisenhower moment.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Jordan was occupying the West Bank.
> ...





 Read the history books and the peace deal with Jordan and then come back with the right answer


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> It didn't as it annexed the land with the full support of the UN, so the land became part of Jordan. You should be fully aware of this as you have posted enough links surrounding this aspect on other topics. Israel occupied it from 1967 till 1994 when Jordan gifted Israel with the land.  So now were is your nation of Palestine ?


It is illegal to hold onto land seized in a war.  Period.

There is nothing you can say that will change the reality of that fact.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





 Jordan was a state that legally annexed the land with the blessing of the UN


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

pbel said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...







 How about facts then.

 Who legally annexed the land in 1949 ?

 Who transferred ownership of the land in 1994 ?

 Who became the new owner of the land in 1994 ?


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> How about facts then.
> 
> Who legally annexed the land in 1949 ?
> 
> ...


*Who's the leader of the pack

that's made for you and me?

M - I - C - 

K - E - Y

M - O - U - S - E

Mickey Mouse, Mickey Mouse...​*


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

pbel said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...






 Just have to say one thing the Palestinian people declared their state in 1988, until then there was no Palestinian state or people.   You admitted this on another thread.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...






 Here we go the official declaration of the state of Palestine.

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 Palestine, officially the State of Palestine (Arabic: &#1583;&#1608;&#1604;&#1577; &#1601;&#1604;&#1587;&#1591;&#1610;&#1606;* Dawlat Filas&#7789;&#299;n), is a state in the Levant. Its independence was declared on* 15 November 1988 *by the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and its government-in-exile in Algiers. It claims sovereignty over the Palestinian territories,[13] and has designated Jerusalem as its capita


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Toddsterpatriot,  Victory67,  _et al,_
> 
> There is a lot of confusion in this discussion.
> 
> ...






 What are the rules on annexed land being transferred to another nation, does the ownership pass on or does it stay with the original nation that annexed the land.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > So it didn't belong to anyone.
> ...





 Then let them produce the title deeds of such ownership, the Jews have done so in regards to land in gaza and the west bank.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Just what do you mean? Do you think it was unclaimed land that had no deeds of ownership, or is it the right wing serenade of there was no Palestine or a Palestinian People?
> ...






Your evidence and proof that the land has been stolen, and not some biased site that is anti Israel


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > I have told you many times that if it is a defensive war where land is gained then it is legal.
> ...




 So just when did Israel fire the first shot ?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...





 And how much did the nomadic workers hold title to, the history books say that the muslims held title to nothing as they were mostly tenant farmers. But the right of return allows for Palestinians who have never settled in Palestine to claim land they never owned as theirs. So surely the same must apply to Israel. If a Jew had stayed on the land in the past then under the Palestinian criteria he is allowed by law to claim that land as his.

 OTHERWISE  THE WHOLE RIGHT OF RETURN IS A RACIST CONCEPT BIASED IN THE FAVOUR OF ISLAMIC TAKE OVER AND LAND THEFT.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...




So has International Law yet to be implemented  by the nations of the world. The question is if the interpretation of the Geneva conventions is that the land is occupied is the land was not held by a nation. So this means that America is occupying American land today. It also means that Jordan occupies Palestinian land today. As does Syria, Iraq and Lebanon


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > And the right of return that grants them the right to return to their ancestral homes stolen by the muslim hordes in 1948.   Or do you think that the Jews should not be afforded this INTERNATIONAL LAW and should be evicted from the land they hold title to. So do show were the land they occupy is not theirs with full title.
> ...






 Not Israeli land but JEWISH LAND, can you see the difference yet or are you so steeped in your hatred for the Jews and Israel. 

 The land under the right of return is Jewish, not Israeli, so the Jews who lived there prior to 1948 and who were forcibly evicted by the muslims have the legal right under right of return to claim this land back.

 Or do you believe that INTERNATIONAL LAW does not extend to the JEWISH PEOPLE and only applies to muslim free loaders.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f81j5Zk-GSA]What Really Happened in the Middle East - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > It didn't as it annexed the land with the full support of the UN, so the land became part of Jordan. You should be fully aware of this as you have posted enough links surrounding this aspect on other topics. Israel occupied it from 1967 till 1994 when Jordan gifted Israel with the land.  So now were is your nation of Palestine ?
> ...



 Then you are blinkered and wont listen to reason and reality.

 Were does it say that the right of return does not apply to the JEWISH PEOPLE and only to the muslims.

 The land of the west bank was annexed by Jordan and ratified as Jordanian by the UN, making the west bank and Jerusalem part of Jordan. With me so far as regards legal ownership of the west bank. In 1967 this land was occupied by Israel under the Geneva conventions rules as a purely defensive move . In 1994 Israel and Jordan met and talked about peace and mutual borders, as part of the deal Israel complied with un 242 and offered the occupied land back to its rightful owner Jordan. Jordan refused the offer and gifted Israel with the land and all of its problems. This transferred legal ownership of the land formerly known as the west bank to Israel. So in reality the land is part of Israel but the populace aren't and that is were the problems begin.

 Read and digest the full implications of the peace treaty.

The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty


----------



## jillian (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > It didn't as it annexed the land with the full support of the UN, so the land became part of Jordan. You should be fully aware of this as you have posted enough links surrounding this aspect on other topics. Israel occupied it from 1967 till 1994 when Jordan gifted Israel with the land.  So now were is your nation of Palestine ?
> ...



really? that's interesting.

so you're asserting that the united states should return land to the mexicans and native americans?

interesting.

and other than the aggressive land grabs of the nazis, what countries have been forced to return land especially land won in defensive battle.

you might want to hit the history books at some point. which might also tell you that the so-called palestinians lived in trans-jordan and, rightfully, should have been part of jordan. but jordan didn't want them.

and on what planet do people get do-overs in war?

lol


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > How about facts then.
> ...






 As expected once the chips are down you don't want to play. Cant stand seeing all your ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATRED blowing up in your face. Don't want to answer because it will show how much you have been brainwashed by islamonazi propaganda.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Over and over again, this thread shows the propaganda machine LYING about History in order to turn the world against Israel.........The last video is the truth as it has been posted during this thread by various posters.................

None of the countries in the Middle East Existed until the 20th Century.  NONE OF THEM...........They were all part of the Ottoman Empire, which also included Egypt and Libya.................The Ottoman Empire fell in WWI and the area was OCCUPIED by the BRITISH and FRENCH................

They then promised those living in these territories of the Ottoman Empire Countries of their own.  They fulfilled these promises and the countries were created.  JORDAN STOLE almost all of the so called Palestinian Territory when Jordan was created............and again took control of the West Bank later to give it back after OCCUPYING IT.  They left a NO MAN'S land there forcing present day Palestinians in Refugee Camps........................

The Muslim Brother Hood, Hamas, Hezballah, and the Arab League were formed FOR ONE REASON.  The Destruction of Israel...................PERIOD...............

They also drove out Jews in their territories and STOLE THEIR HOMES AS WELL............850,000 of them...................Nothing is said about that....................

Finally, Israel has had to move into areas over time to stop attacks against their country from these areas...........and time and time again they moved out only to be attacked again from the areas they left...............

This ONGOING Conflict is NOT ABOUT LAND....................

It is not about a Palestinian State...................................

It is about the Destruction of Israel................................

Look at the video.


----------



## Delta4Embassy (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



You're right. And the moment the US arrests itself for its own violations of international law with its drone war in Pakistan, murder of ObL (if the SEALs resigned so they could legally contract out to CIA for the operation, then they weren't soldiers involved in a legal military operation but civilians, thereby making the operation murder,) and all the other infringements of soverignity we'll get right on it re:Israel.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

This is what it's really about................

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eYA9NpmMJM&list=PL9A637E8154F2AF75&feature=c4-overview-vl]What Every American Needs To Know About Jihad - YouTube[/ame]

By the way, a toast to the Seal Unit who took out OBL...........


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 9, 2014)

jillian said:


> really? that's interesting.
> 
> so you're asserting that the united states should return land to the mexicans and native americans?


That has nothing to do with this issue.




jillian said:


> and other than the aggressive land grabs of the nazis,


Well, I'm glad you brought that up, because the reason it is illegal today, is because of those aggressive land grabs the Nazis did.  Conquer by Conquest has been illegal since the end of WWII.



jillian said:


> what countries have been forced to return land&#8230;


I'm sorry, but the law doesn't work that way.

_*"If little Johnny doesn't have to return the shit he stole, 
then the law say's I don't have to return the shit I stole!"​*_What kind of a dumbass argument is that?  You make that argument when you're 8, not in an international court of law.



jillian said:


> especially land won in defensive battle.


How the fuck could it be a defensive battle, when the war started with Israeli tanks rolling into Egypt?

I'm wondering, what planet are you from?




jillian said:


> you might want to hit the history books at some point&#8230;. which might also tell you that the so-called palestinians lived in trans-jordan and, rightfully, should have been part of jordan. but jordan didn't want them.


What name you want to call that area doesn't mean shit!  The fact is, there were indigenous arabs living there for generations and they have rights to.  And you need to get it in your fucking head, there isn't a single argument you can come up with, that will take them away.



jillian said:


> and on what planet do people get do-overs in war?lol


I have no idea what your point is there.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Not true.

Do you have a link for that?


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Then let them produce the title deeds of such ownership, the Jews have done so in regards to land in gaza and the west bank.


Then why don't you produce those?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



Jordan has nothing to do with Israeli occupied Palestinian land.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah (Feb 9, 2014)

One of the Hebrew words for inheritance used in the Torah is the word "stream".  Because an inheritance flows uninterupted from one generation to the next.  I learned that on Israel 365 Hebrew lesson and was amazed at the depth of meaning in that find.  

Look:

You shall inherit the Land, each tribe equal to his brother, about which I raised My hand to give it to your forefathers; this Land shall become yours as an inheritance.   


EZEKIEL (47:14)

&#1493;&#1468;&#1504;&#1456;&#1495;&#1463;&#1500;&#1456;&#1514;&#1468;&#1462;&#1501; &#1488;&#1493;&#1465;&#1514;&#1464;&#1492;&#1468; &#1488;&#1460;&#1497;&#1513;&#1473; &#1499;&#1468;&#1456;&#1488;&#1464;&#1495;&#1460;&#1497;&#1493; &#1488;&#1458;&#1513;&#1473;&#1462;&#1512; &#1504;&#1464;&#1513;&#1474;&#1464;&#1488;&#1514;&#1460;&#1497; &#1488;&#1462;&#1514; &#1497;&#1464;&#1491;&#1460;&#1497; &#1500;&#1456;&#1514;&#1460;&#1514;&#1468;&#1464;&#1492;&#1468; &#1500;&#1463;&#1488;&#1458;&#1489;&#1465;&#1514;&#1461;&#1497;&#1499;&#1462;&#1501; &#1493;&#1456;&#1504;&#1464;&#1508;&#1456;&#1500;&#1464;&#1492; &#1492;&#1464;&#1488;&#1464;&#1512;&#1462;&#1509; &#1492;&#1463;&#1494;&#1468;&#1465;&#1488;&#1514; &#1500;&#1464;&#1499;&#1462;&#1501; &#1489;&#1468;&#1456;&#1504;&#1463;&#1495;&#1458;&#1500;&#1464;&#1492;
&#1497;&#1495;&#1494;&#1511;&#1488;&#1500; &#1502;&#8217;&#8217;&#1494;:&#1497;&#8217;&#8217;&#1491;


oo-ne-khal-TEM oh-TAH eesh ke-ah-KHEEV ah-SHARE na-SA-tee et ya-DEE le-tee-TA la-ah-vo-tay-KHEM ve-naf-LA ha-ah-RETS ha-ZOTE la-KHEM be-na-kha-LA 

Long live Israel!


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Nobody!


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## Shaarona (Feb 9, 2014)

Jeremiah said:


> One of the Hebrew words for inheritance used in the Torah is the word "stream".  Because an inheritance flows uninterupted from one generation to the next.  I learned that on Israel 365 Hebrew lesson and was amazed at the depth of meaning in that find.
> 
> Look:
> 
> ...



Where do you suppose the ten lost tribes are?


----------



## Delta4Embassy (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> This is what it's really about................
> 
> What Every American Needs To Know About Jihad - YouTube
> 
> By the way, a toast to the Seal Unit who took out OBL...........



...Most of whom are now dead. Always thought that was odd. Though not one normally given to conspiracy theories, it seemed odd that they never showed the public the corpse and we only have their word he's dead now. Then all the potential witnesses involved 1st-hand died shortly after the operation.

Wouldn't he have been a major intelligence asset to take alive? Like capturing Hitler alive. As pure propaganda he'd have been worth more alive than dead. Maybe they agreed and DID take him alive but told the world they killed him so he wouldn't be a rallying cry for jihadis? ...Or am I not supposed to say that because it's GACK Ack! (clutches throat and pitches foward)


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



The Treaty of Peace between the allied powers and Turkey officially ending World War I was signed in Lausanne, Switzerland, on 24 July 1923.121 Setting out the legal status of the territories detached from Turkey, the Treaty had the effect of law in Palestine, as it was extended to this country by an ordinance,122 on 6 August 1924.

The status of Palestine and the nationality of its inhabitants were finally settled by the Treaty of Lausanne from the perspective of public international law. In a report submitted to the League of Nations, the British government pointed out: The ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in Aug., 1924, finally regularised the international status of Palestine.123 And, thereafter, Palestine could, at last, obtain a separate nationality.124

Drawing up the framework of nationality, Article 30 of the Treaty of Lausanne stated:

Turkish subjects habitually resident in territory which in accordance with the provisions of the present Treaty is detached from Turkey will become ipso facto, in the conditions laid down by the local law, nationals of the State to which such territory is transferred.​
Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel


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## TooTall (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Those with the intent to destroy violate the laws of humanity virtually every other day.................
> ...



Israel gave back the Gaza strip and moved all Israeli's out of the territory.  The thanks was Hamas launching rockets at  Israeli civilian targets.  The Israeli response was air strikes against the terrorists.  I don't have a problem with that, and apparently you do.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > One of the Hebrew words for inheritance used in the Torah is the word "stream".  Because an inheritance flows uninterupted from one generation to the next.  I learned that on Israel 365 Hebrew lesson and was amazed at the depth of meaning in that find.
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33DC4UatExo]What Happened To The 12 Tribes Of Israel_ - E. Raymond Capt - YouTube[/ame]


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > I have told you many times that if it is a defensive war where land is gained then it is legal.
> ...



Israel pleaded with Jordan not to join in the 67 war, but Jordan refused and got its butt kicked.


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## Shaarona (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Jeremiah said:
> ...



Hahahaha.. What a crock.......... British Israelites.

Scythians -- Ancient History Encyclopedia


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## Shaarona (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



*Read Moshe Dayan... They planned the 1967 war from the early 1950s because they coveted more land and water assets. 

Dayan describes the constant provocations.

Time to get honest about your history.*


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## RoccoR (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall,  _et al,_

Annexation is the permanent acquisition and incorporation of a territory into a new/different nation.  Once annexed, the territory become part of that country.



Phoenall said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot,  Victory67,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Annexation does not effect property ownership.

I live in Ohio.  I own my property.  If the US sells Ohio to Canada, I change citizenship, I will Pay taxes to Ottawa, I will be a Canadian and not American, and I will follow Canadian Law.  But it doesn't effect my property.  I still own the land.  The only thing different about the land is that it is now defended by Canada, and not the US.  The international border would be extended out to encompass Ohio.  But I still own my little patch of land and the house.

Sovereignty doesn't effect property ownership.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Billo_Really said:
> ...



In 1967 they were massing forces against Israel preparing to attack and drive Israel into the sea...............

Israel wasn't going to wait until they attacked, so they hit them before they did the same to them........................

Sadat at the time joked when hearing the news that Israel was hitting their forces believing they would win the fight..........but later when he heard their forces were getting their butts kicked he no longer laughed..............

They openly stated they were going to attack Israel..................They were massing to do that very thing......bragging about all the shiny tanks that were about to destroy Israel...............

The IDF  turned most of them into scrap metal.


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## Shaarona (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



Hahahaha.. actually Nasser was calling for discussion and negotiations..

Falsifying history goes back thousands of years for you all.


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

*Calling for Israel to pull out of the West Bank is illegal according to International Law.  *

It has been a few weeks since I posted this but considering we have some rather uninformed people on this forum it would be worthwhile them getting educated.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubDhnM0MUmY]Howard Grief - EC4I middle east conflict documentary: Give Peace A Chance - YouTube[/ame]


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



That's like the pot painting the kettle black.


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## toastman (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



Are you saying Israel would have attacked Jordan had they NOT entered the war ?

Israel wanted the land so they could trade it back for PEACE

They offered the Sinai to Egypt for peace and Recognition of Israel following the 6 day war but Egypt refused(they later made a peace deal in 1979)

They offered the Golan back to Syria, but instead, Syria signed the Khartoum resolution which said: No peace with Israel and no recognition of Israel.


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## Shaarona (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Where were you in 1967?


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## toastman (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



False, that would be a Muslim thing


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## Shaarona (Feb 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Israel simply wanted to provoke a war.. Read Moshe Dayan.

Remember that the Suez Canal was out of commission for 6-7 years. 

Were you born yesterday?

The Israelis stole all sorts of equipment in Sinai that was own by Belgium.

You will never have peace if you continue to lie your ass off.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



LOL

baby still then............but of course I can't look at history and determine what happened in that War...........

Your question doesn't matter..............

All of the orgs I've stated including the Arab League were created for only one reason.

The destruction of Israel..............They tried and failed........So now they use propaganda to try and turn the world against Israel.........

Which is the sole purpose of this op.


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## Shaarona (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



How long have you been selling yourself on the destruction of Israel?


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Phoenall,  _et al,_
> 
> Annexation is the permanent acquisition and incorporation of a territory into a new/different nation.  Once annexed, the territory become part of that country.
> 
> ...



Of course if Canada came down with guns, took over Ohio, and ran you off to Pennsylvania you would favor the right to return that you oppose now.

This does not address the right to country that exists irrespective of land ownership. It is said (constantly) that the Palestinians have no right to Palestine because they did not own land-that it was leased.

Does this mean that people who live in...say...New York City who lease apartments have no right to the US because they don't own any land.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> *Calling for Israel to pull out of the West Bank is illegal according to International Law.  *
> 
> It has been a few weeks since I posted this but considering we have some rather uninformed people on this forum it would be worthwhile them getting educated.
> 
> Howard Grief - EC4I middle east conflict documentary: Give Peace A Chance - YouTube



And it is just as big of a lie as it was then.


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > *Calling for Israel to pull out of the West Bank is illegal according to International Law.  *
> ...



No, of course it isn't.  The fact that you disagree with International Law doesn't mean you can change it.  The Jews' rights to the land is protected.


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## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > really? that's interesting.
> ...





 Still waiting for your proof that they had lived there for generations when the only way a nomadic culture could breed so quickly would be to have multiple births every 9 months. Every link you provide shows that the muslim population kept at double the population of Jew and Christian combined. The only way they could achieve this was to migrate into the area. Even the UN rules for claiming Palestinian nationality show this to be self evident, when they allow for a 2 years residency of Palestine to qualify for Palestinian nationality.

 There is the one argument that does take them away


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## pbel (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



There is nothing sweet about a position that denies the reality of the UN position when it comes to International Law. The UN recently recognized an Observer Palestinian State to the 67 borders...All attempts by people who hold this position are dooming the Israeli State with constant war-fare that she cannot win in the long ruin.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



Quote the passages from San Remo that mention Israel, Jewish state, or *exclusive *Jewish rights to that land.


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

pbel said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I guess you didn't watch the video.  Another one together with tinhat who denies Israel's legitimate right to the land together with countries' rights to protect the Jewish people's right to the land.  Must be hard for you on the losing side of the argument, eh?


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## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...





 HERE

Jordanian occupation of the West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The United States, together with the United Kingdom favored the annexation by Transjordan. The UK preferred to permit King Abdullah to annex the territory at the earliest date, while the United States preferred to wait until after the conclusion of the Palestine Conciliation Commission brokered negotiations.[14]

Jordan formally annexed the West Bank on April 24, 1950, giving all residents automatic Jordanian citizenship. West Bank residents had already received the right to claim Jordanian citizenship in December 1949.


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Watch the video.  I already showed you proof there that the land is for the Jewish people.  The arabs were given other lands and the Jews the land of Israel.  

I recommend this book as it will explain it for you.


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## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Then let them produce the title deeds of such ownership, the Jews have done so in regards to land in gaza and the west bank.
> ...





 Why should I when I don't have any. But the Jews have produced the deeds and the muslims only ever produce rusty mass produced keys


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## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...





 When did it become Palestinian land then ?


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## pbel (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



I guess you got me...I didn't watch the video...probably because a you tube production is hardly a source of proof that would make me think you're not an airhead religious fanatic which is dooming peace on both sides...provide an unbiased link, and I'll be glad to read it!


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Except for Britain and Pakistan, the world saw the annexation as illegal. As it was.


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## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...





 Wrong Jordan did as part of the original British partition plan


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> > One of the Hebrew words for inheritance used in the Torah is the word "stream".  Because an inheritance flows uninterupted from one generation to the next.  I learned that on Israel 365 Hebrew lesson and was amazed at the depth of meaning in that find.
> ...



Some are in Israel and have been since the diaspora, others are in Europe and America while at least one is in Ethiopia


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## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Wrong Jordan did as part of the original British partition plan



Jordan didn't annex the West Bank in 1949.

They annexed it in 1950.  This annexation was illegal.

Just as Israel's annexation of West Bank land and calling it "Greater Jerusalem" in 1970, was illegal.

However the United States did recognize Jordanian sovereignty over the West Bank.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



I asked for San Remo, not that lying sack of crap again.


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## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...





 We have been through this before and you have been shown that the treaty of Lausanne does not mention Palestine by name. And your source is a bigoted muslim who twists the words of other treaties to make it look like they refer to Palestine as a nation.

As the above shows the residents took on British or French nationality and this has been explained to you in detail.

 Your link and post are invalid to the subject matter as there is no corroborative evidence to support the muslim authors claims


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## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Still waiting for your proof that they had lived there for generations when the only way a nomadic culture could breed so quickly would be to have multiple births every 9 months. Every link you provide shows that the muslim population kept at double the population of Jew and Christian combined. The only way they could achieve this was to migrate into the area. Even the UN rules for claiming Palestinian nationality show this to be self evident, when they allow for a 2 years residency of Palestine to qualify for Palestinian nationality.
> 
> There is the one argument that does take them away



British research performed during the Mandate period proves that the growth of the Arab population from 1922 to 1949 was natural and not due to immigration.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Irrelevant deflection. That was not the purpose of the treaty.


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## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

shaarona said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > shaarona said:
> ...





proof and evidence


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## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> *Calling for Israel to pull out of the West Bank is illegal according to International Law.  *
> 
> It has been a few weeks since I posted this but considering we have some rather uninformed people on this forum it would be worthwhile them getting educated.
> 
> Howard Grief - EC4I middle east conflict documentary: Give Peace A Chance - YouTube



Israel is the legal Occupying Power of the West Bank.

They are obligated under the 4th Geneva Convention to continue their military occupation of the West Bank until both parties agree on a final settlement.

However, all Israeli settlements and settlement infrastructure built in the West Bank on confiscated private Arab land and "State land", are illegal.


----------



## pbel (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Still waiting for your proof that they had lived there for generations when the only way a nomadic culture could breed so quickly would be to have multiple births every 9 months. Every link you provide shows that the muslim population kept at double the population of Jew and Christian combined. The only way they could achieve this was to migrate into the area. Even the UN rules for claiming Palestinian nationality show this to be self evident, when they allow for a 2 years residency of Palestine to qualify for Palestinian nationality.
> ...



So what's little lie for Israel?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Where does it say that?



> With regard to nationality of the inhabitants of mandated territories, in general, the Council of the League of Nations adopted the following resolution on 23 April 1923:
> 
> (1) The status of the native inhabitants of a Mandated territory is distinct from that of the nationals of the Mandatory Power....
> (2) The native inhabitants of a Mandated territory are not invested with the nationality of the Mandatory Power by means of the protection extended to them92​
> Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

pbel said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...



That Youtube production is one that explains the facts clearly, which is advantageous with some of the airheads on here.  Here is an unbiased link that you want.

San Remo's Mandate: Israel's 'Magna Carta' - Inside Israel - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



Still ducking those San Remo quotes, I see.


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## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> That Youtube production is one that explains the facts clearly, which is advantageous with some of the airheads on here.  Here is an unbiased link that you want.
> 
> San Remo's Mandate: Israel's 'Magna Carta' - Inside Israel - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com



The San Remo Conference, along with the Balfour Declaration and Mandate for Palestine, all made Jewish settlement in Palestine for the purposes of creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine conditional upon the full respect and protection of non-Jewish civil and religious rights in Palestine.

Israel has been violating these conditions since 1949 and therefore has no business citing these international agreements as proof of anything.


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## pbel (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



You just proved my point, that you have no unbiased source aside from a commentary airhead production of a pro-Israeli news-cast.

Pathetic indeed, destroying people's lives over stupid religious writings.


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## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

pbel said:


> You just proved my point, that you have no unbiased source aside from a commentary airhead production of a pro-Israeli news-cast.
> 
> Pathetic indeed, destroying people's lives over stupid religious writings.



Does that video actually cite Bibilical scriptures as applicable law?  That would be pretty sad.

The Israel & Palestine situation is one that is governed by recent international law and not 3,000 year old fairy tales.


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

*Please read this about the San Remo Mandate which protects Jewish rights to the land and countries' obligations to encourage Jewish settlement.

Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights*


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

pbel said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...



*Read this then

Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights

*


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## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> *Read this then
> 
> Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights
> 
> *



Are you not aware that the Mandate for Palestine expired in 1948 when the British ended the Mandate and the State of Israel was declared?  Plus the fact that the United Nations voted to recognize the State of Israel as a legal and full member of their international body, concluding and fufilling the Mandate's aim of creating a Jewish state in Palestine.

Furthermore, the Mandate for Palestine made the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine conditional upon the full and total respect and protection of all civil and religious rights for non-Jews in Palestine, a condition that Israel has been flagrantly violating since 1949.

If the Jewish settlement rights stipiulated in the Mandate are still active than so are the protection for non-Jewish rights, and Israel is in clear and acute violation of those rights.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> *Please read this about the San Remo Mandate which protects Jewish rights to the land and countries' obligations to encourage Jewish settlement.
> 
> Mandate For Palestine - The Legal Aspects of Jewish Rights*



From your link:



> The Mandate for Palestine, an historical League of Nations document, laid down the Jewish legal right to settle anywhere in western Palestine, between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, an entitlement unaltered in international law.



The mandate was to assist immigrating Jews in obtaining Palestinian citizenship.

As citizens of Palestine, they could live anywhere in Palestine that they wish.

The current constitution of Palestine says the same thing.


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > *Read this then
> ...



Are you not aware that the UN has to honor the obligations from the Mandate which you would have seen when you saw the video, with proof of that fact.  And of course Israel gives the arabs full rights if they are citizens of Israel, but if not then of course they do not have the rights of the arab Israeli citizens.

P.S.  I still can't get over how apt your username is!


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## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

_British Mandate for Palestine (legal instrument) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,* it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country

San Remo conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,* it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country_


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > *Please read this about the San Remo Mandate which protects Jewish rights to the land and countries' obligations to encourage Jewish settlement.
> ...



What is the constitution of Palestine?  Give me a link.


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## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Are you not aware that the UN has to honor the obligations from the Mandate which you would have seen when you saw the video, with proof of that fact.  And of course Israel gives the arabs full rights if they are citizens of Israel, but if not then of course they do not have the rights of the arab Israeli citizens.
> 
> P.S.  I still can't get over how apt your username is!



Where does the Balfour Declaration, San Remo Conference, and Mandate for Palestine state that the rights of non-Jews in Palestine can be violated if they are not citizens of the Jewish homeland created in Palestine?

They say nothing of the sort.  These three documents, which you hold to be perpetual international law, clearly state that the civil and religious rights of non-Jews in Palestine must be protected.  Why are you ignoring this when the rest of the world can clearly see it in plain English?

How do you think such an attitude reflects upon Israel and affects international views of the Israeli position?


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## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





 At school learning modern history as it happened. This included the 6 day war and the lead up to it. Consider that Egypt had blocked the passage of Israeli registered vessels through the straits of tiran, mobilised its forces along the Israeli border and evicted the UN peace keeping force from the Sinai then they were itching for a fight, so Israel jumped in with a pre-emptive strike against the muslims rather than wait for them to attack.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





 The muslims just wanted to prove they were devout followers of islam and wipe out the Jews
 Read the Koran and look at the words of the president of Egypt prior to the attack by Israel.

 This is why islam has never know peace since it was invented in 627 c.e.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Are you not aware that the UN has to honor the obligations from the Mandate which you would have seen when you saw the video, with proof of that fact.  And of course Israel gives the arabs full rights if they are citizens of Israel, but if not then of course they do not have the rights of the arab Israeli citizens.
> ...



It doesn't say they can be violated, and they are not, but Israel is legally Jewish land.  Non citizens of countries do not have the rights that citizens do.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall,  _et al,_
> ...






 Does this mean that the Jews have no rights and no right of return. Because from here it looks like you are wanting to implement a two tier system with the Jews getting no rights at all.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > *Calling for Israel to pull out of the West Bank is illegal according to International Law.  *
> ...






 You can of course show were this is a LIE, like we showed your muslim source was LYING about Palestine.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



*Article 9*

Palestinians shall be equal before the law and the judiciary, without distinction based upon race, sex, color, religion, political views or disability.

*Article 18*

Freedom of belief, worship and the performance of religious functions are guaranteed, provided public order or public morals are not violated.

*Article 20*

Freedom of residence and movement shall be guaranteed within the limits of the law.

2003 Amended Basic Law | The Palestinian Basic Law


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

pbel said:


> sweet_caroline said:
> 
> 
> > p f tinmore said:
> ...





 it did no such thing and you have never shown were any un document states that palestine is recognised to the non existent '67 borders. All you ever produce is the press release of the palestinians spokesperson that is not acceptance of the '67 borders at all.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > sweet_caroline said:
> ...



Good point. The '67 border was an Abbas thing. The people were not consulted in that decision.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Ad I said, if they are citizens of Israel they have equal rights.  Those who are citizens of Palestinian controlled or Hamas controlled territory (Gaza) do not have the rights that arab/Christian/and other religions have if they hold Israeli citizenship.  Your link is for Palestinian controlled territory.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> it did no such thing and you have never shown were any un document states that palestine is recognised to the non existent '67 borders. All you ever produce is the press release of the palestinians spokesperson that is not acceptance of the '67 borders at all.



The State of Palestine was declared by the Palestinians on November 15th, 1988.

The declared borders include all of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

This state was recognized by the United Nations as a non-member state in 2012.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > it did no such thing and you have never shown were any un document states that palestine is recognised to the non existent '67 borders. All you ever produce is the press release of the palestinians spokesperson that is not acceptance of the '67 borders at all.
> ...



The only problem is that the "67 borders" have never been anybody's borders.

You can't just say something and make it true.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

*Armistice lines, not borders.*


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Once in a while, you make a bit of sense.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall,  _et al,_
> ...


*(OBSERVATION)*

It has been my experience that the issue of land ownership relative to the argument for sovereign rights has been predominately a pro-Palestinian position.

However, land ownership, while an interesting data point _(something to take into consideration)_, is not --- in itself, an argument that supports either side of the equation in terms of sovereignty. 

*(COMMENT)*

Again, inhabitance (residing in a given area) and property ownership are two different thing.

Sovereignty is a declaration of the "inhabitance" or "indigenous population."  

The rights of the "indigenous population" _(covered in Resolution 61/295 United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples)_ and the right to self determination _(covered in Resolution 49/148 Universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination)_ are different kinds of rights.  While they work hand-and-glove fashion, one does not presume the other.

When we say that "indigenous peoples" have the right to self-determination; we are saying (among other things) that they have the right to determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.  BUT! the right of self-determination is not exclusive to the "indigenous population."  It is a right extended to all people (Palestinian and Israeli alike).  Just as all individuals have the right to a nationality; it is not exclusive to "indigenous people."

While being indigenous may give the upper hand to a segment of the population, it confers no special right above that of other people.  The indigenous population cannot claim superiority over an minority or immigrant culture.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Classic comment, absolutely classic.  I wish you would take heed of your own thought there.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> The only problem is that the "67 borders" have never been anybody's borders.
> 
> You can't just say something and make it true.



When the world's international body of nations recognizes something as legitimate, it has meaning.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

I wonder what Mexicans have to say about the US.
It's also true that it's not OK to relocate an indigenous native but it's OK to kill them vis-à-vis a whole bunch of Islamic nations.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Once in a while, you make a bit of sense.
> 
> ...



Immigrants who obtain citizenship enjoy the same rights as the other citizens.

They can't, however, claim exclusive or superior rights.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

The issue now appears to be that Israel wants to pick and choose which parts of specific international laws they will respect and which parts they will ignore.

I wonder how this will affect international opinions of Israel.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore, Victory67, Phoenall,  _et al,_

Yeah, what can you say?



P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


*(OBSERVATION)*

According to the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO):



			
				PLO:  The delineation and demarcation of agreed upon borders are central to reaching an end of conflict on the basis of the two-state solution. Our position on borders has undergone a significant transformation since 1948. said:
			
		

> *The Borders of Palestine: A Brief Background*
> 
> Historic Palestine (pre-1948) encompasses all of Israel, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and Jerusalem. In 1922, historic Palestine was placed under a British Mandate by the League of Nations.
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

Now, I do not agree with the PLO on every point made here.  And I encourage everyone that has an interest in the official position held by the Palestinians on Borders.  Clearly, the PLO recognizes the 1967 Borders.  

Now, having said that, you are always going to run into the dyed-in-the-wool pro-Palestinian that is going to argue the point and claim that no one recognizes the 1967 Borders.  There is nothing you can do about that.  That is an internal domestic conflict between factions in dispute within the PLO itself.  Don't spend any time on it.  Just go to the PLO-NAD site and understand the current position.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> The issue now appears to be that Israel wants to pick and choose which parts of specific international laws they will respect and which parts they will ignore.
> 
> I wonder how this will affect international opinions of Israel.



You must be VERY young.
The International community has been condemning Israel since at least the 60s.


----------



## rhodescholar (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> When the world's international body of nations recognizes something as legitimate, it has meaning.



So why aren't you criticising the arab muslims for ignoring the UN in 1948 when it declared a 2 state partition, and declaring war on the jews?

Why aren't you criticizing the arab muslims for forcing UN peacekeepers to leave the mideast so they could attack israel in 1967?

Why are you claiming the settlements are "illegal" when UN 242 calls for a negotiated settlement of the territory?

Facts much, ****?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

rhodescholar said:


> So why aren't you criticising the arab muslims for ignoring the UN in 1948 when it declared a 2 state partition, and declaring war on the jews?
> 
> Why aren't you criticizing the arab muslims for forcing UN peacekeepers to leave the mideast so they could attack israel in 1967?
> 
> Why are you claiming the settlements are "illegal" when UN 242 calls for a negotiated settlement of the territory?



All settlements built on stolen private property are illegal, as per the 4th Geneva Convention which Israel is signatory to.

As to the other issues you are more than welcome to create a new thread about them and I will respond in kind.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

I think I said that.



P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

In this case, neither can claim to be hold a superior right (neither the Palestinian or the Israel).  However, the Israeli exercised their right pursuant to General Assembly guidelines in 1948.   The Palestinians did not do it until 1988 (two decades later).

v/r
R


----------



## rhodescholar (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> All settlements built on stolen private property are illegal, as per the 4th Geneva Convention which Israel is signatory to.



UNSC resolutions supercede all other rules and guidelines, including the GC.  Until the UNSC declares that all settlements are illegal, you are LYING, like every other pro-arab piece of shit here.



> As to the other issues you are more than welcome to create a new thread about them and I will respond in kind.



I stated them here, respond to them here - stop deflecting or wasting our time with your fucking nonsense.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> I think I said that.
> 
> ...



Had the Arabs accepted UN Resolution 181 the Israelis would have been very unhappy as they would have no control over any parts of Jerusalem and have much less land than today.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67,  _et al,_

Yes, well it is not exactly stolen.  You may say it is a kind of misappropriation subject to the Oslo Accord.



Victory67 said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > So why aren't you criticising the arab muslims for ignoring the UN in 1948 when it declared a 2 state partition, and declaring war on the jews?
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

As soon as the Palestinians agree to a Peace Arrangement with the Israelis, the settlements will be a resolved issue.  The longer the negotiations are held hostage, the settlements will be held.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## rhodescholar (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Had the Arabs accepted UN Resolution 181 the Israelis would have been very unhappy as they would have no control over any parts of Jerusalem and have much less land than today.



The jews accepted 181 you stupid XXXX XXXX moron idiot asshole.  Try facts on instead of lying you worthless turd:

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Plan was accepted by the Jewish public and Jewish Agency...but rejected by the Arab public and the ruling elites of the Palestinian Arabs, along with the rest of the Arab world..."


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



So the Arabs were concerned over Israel's happiness?
You just stepped on your own balls with that one.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Victory67,  _et al,_
> 
> Yes, well it is not exactly stolen.  You may say it is a kind of misappropriation subject to the Oslo Accord. As soon as the Palestinians agree to a Peace Arrangement with the Israelis, the settlements will be a resolved issue.  The longer the negotiations are held hostage, the settlements will be held.
> 
> ...



You are fully well aware that according to the 4th Geneva Conventions which Israel is a signatory to, an Occupying Power may only confiscate private land for military purposes.

All settlements that exist on private land that was confiscated for military purposes, as per the Israeli military government that rules the West Bank, are illegal.

This is why the Israeli Supreme Court deemed such confiscations illegal in 1979.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67, _et al,_

Maybe!  Might have been...



Victory67 said:


> Had the Arabs accepted UN Resolution 181 the Israelis would have been very unhappy as they would have no control over any parts of Jerusalem and have much less land than today.


*(COMMENT)*

This is pure speculation.  One could say that "if" the Arab Palestinian had accepted UN Resolution 181, the Palestinians would have "probably" been much better off then they are now.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

rhodescholar said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Had the Arabs accepted UN Resolution 181 the Israelis would have been very unhappy as they would have no control over any parts of Jerusalem and have much less land than today.
> ...



You DO realize we're dealing with a fantasizing idiot who "seemingly" remembers an 1967 ARAB victory.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Victory67, _et al,_
> 
> Maybe!  Might have been... This is pure speculation.  One could say that "if" the Arab Palestinian had accepted UN Resolution 181, the Palestinians would have "probably" been much better off then they are now.
> 
> ...



Its informed speculation based on the last 70 years of Israeli history.

The UN Resolution 181 borders were very dissapointing and insufficient for many Israelis.  The 1948 War gave them the opportunity to conquer lands that they felt there entitled to.  As did the 1967 War.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67,  _et al,_

Oh, yes, I am well aware of Article 49, and how the Palestinian-Israel Agreement affects them.



Victory67 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

That is why the Oslo Accords, 1990's, address them and made them a Article V permanent status negotiations that should not be prejudiced or preempted by agreements reached for the interim period.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Victory67,  _et al,_
> 
> Oh, yes, I am well aware of Article 49, and how the Palestinian-Israel Agreement affects them.
> *(COMMENT)*
> ...



The Oslo Accords failed to address existing settlements, their expansion, and the construction of new settlements.

Without this, we must fall back on existing previous law that does directly deal with these issues, and that is the 4th Geneva Conventions.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67,  _et al,_

That is a perfectly reasonable adversarial position to take.



Victory67 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67,
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

That is a peaceful, non-violent approach to take.  I think it needs to go into litigation.

v/r
R


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Victory67,  _et al,_
> 
> That is a perfectly reasonable adversarial position to take.
> That is a peaceful, non-violent approach to take.  I think it needs to go into litigation.
> ...



If Israel and Palestine do not reach a peace accord, I hope that Palestine files a major lawsuit with the International Criminal Court over this issue.

Israel must be held to account for their theft of Arab private land.

Either through mutual agreemant or international courts.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...





Therre were never any '67 borders, read UN 242 which is what set the issue in motion. It states ceasefire lines and not borders, no matter what the muslims say. The '67 borders is a muslim thing that they use to try and steal land, they fail because the decent people see what is really said in UN res 242.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > it did no such thing and you have never shown were any un document states that palestine is recognised to the non existent '67 borders. All you ever produce is the press release of the palestinians spokesperson that is not acceptance of the '67 borders at all.
> ...





 But not to any borders, they could not declare those borders as Israel had already declared them in 1948


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...






 Here we go again show in UN res 242 were it says 1967 borders?


----------



## toastman (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



I've been trying to tell you this for quite some time now. 

You have yet to listen to me


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > The only problem is that the "67 borders" have never been anybody's borders.
> ...




 And all they have recognised is the right of Palestine to exist, they have not recognised any borders as they have not been negotiated. See UN res 242


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> rhodescholar said:
> 
> 
> > So why aren't you criticising the arab muslims for ignoring the UN in 1948 when it declared a 2 state partition, and declaring war on the jews?
> ...






 And I will ask you again prove that the settlements are built on stolen property, and not JEWISH OWNED LAND. ( right of return and all that )


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...





As their history shows Israel treats honourably in regards to peace as shown by their deals with Egypt and Jordan. The Palestinians have been offered all that they demand and they have still refused peace. Look at the camp David talks were Arafat refused to sit down unless the Jews left Palestine as the PLO saw it. which was including Israel.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



There are no 1967 borders. There have never been 1967 borders.

Except in maps of Israel, of course.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> And I will ask you again prove that the settlements are built on stolen property, and not JEWISH OWNED LAND. ( right of return and all that )



Peace Now did a comprehensive and thorough study of all settlements, using information provided to them by the Israeli government.

They found that around 33% of all settlement land is in fact Arab private property.

Here is the study.

http://peacenow.org.il/eng/sites/default/files/Breaking_The_Law_formal data_March07Eng.pdf

The study is trusted by various internationally recognized news organizations including the Washington Post.

Furthermore, in 1979 the Israeli Supreme Court declared that Israel had engaged in illegal activity by building settlements upon stolen Arab private property in the West Bank and since then Israel has ceased this practise and moved on to different but no less dubious methods of taking land that does not belong to them to build settlements for Israelis and not Palestinians.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Here we go again show in UN res 242 were it says 1967 borders?



The United Nations has ordered Israel to withdraw from lands occupied since the 1967 war, which implicitly recognizes Israel legitimate and legal boundaries as the ones that existed when Israel became a UN member state in 1949.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Here we go again show in UN res 242 were it says 1967 borders?
> ...



Within what borders does the UN recognize Israel?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Israel was recognized by the UN as a member state in 1949.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



OK, what borders do they recognize?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> OK, what borders do they recognize?



The United Nations recognizes the 1949 Armistice Lines as the legitimate and legal boundaries/limits of Israel's sovereignty.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > OK, what borders do they recognize?
> ...


Trouble is, many Palestinians don't recognize the UN's authority to recognize those borders.

Just a wee bit problematic, methinks.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > OK, what borders do they recognize?
> ...



Egypt, Syria and Jordan apparently disagreed with the UN.
If fact, they disagreed quite a few times...and got their a$$es handed to them.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Trouble is, many Palestinians don't recognize the UN's authority to recognize those borders.
> 
> Just a wee bit problematic, methinks.



That is there problem.  The international community recognizes Israel's sovereignty within the 1949 Armistice Lines.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Egypt, Syria and Jordan apparently disagreed with the UN.
> If fact, they disagreed quite a few times...and got their a$$es handed to them.



Ancient history.

Egypt and Jordan now acknowledge and recognize Israel's right to exist and their sovereignty within the 1949 Armistice Lines.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 9, 2014)

And that illustrates the benefit of knowing when to abide by international law, and when to set it aside as a barrier to survival or well-being...

Oh, and, having the balls to act on your convictions helps, too...


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Egypt, Syria and Jordan apparently disagreed with the UN.
> ...



You know how things become ancient history?
When the loser is allowed to live and realizes they're never going to win.

And keep in mind that Egypt and Jordan started a war PRIOR to 1949.
By the way...They LOST.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> And that illustrates the benefit of knowing when to abide by international law, and when to set it aside as a barrier to survival or well-being...



No nation has the right to disregard international law when it suits their nationalist/irredentalist agenda, under the false guise of security and survival.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> You know how things become ancient history?
> When the loser is allowed to live and realizes they're never going to win.
> 
> And keep in mind that Egypt and Jordan started a war PRIOR to 1949.
> By the way...They LOST.



Again, ancient history as both Jordan and Egypt have since signed peace treaties with Israel acknowleding and recognizing their right to exist and soveriegnty within the 1949 Armistice Lines.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > You know how things become ancient history?
> ...



And in what year did they sign these peace treaties?
And Israel gave the Gaza to the Scum of the Earth.
And the Gazan Scum of the Earth fire rockets on Sderot.
And Egypt locks the Gazan Scum of the Earth out of Egypt.

And Jordan locks out the West Bank Jordanians.
And not a bit of this Arabs hating Arabs sh!t seems to bother you a bit.

The end is that you're just another weak minded Jew hater.
And there's about 7 million Jews who don't give a sh!t about your out-of-context "facts".


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > And that illustrates the benefit of knowing when to abide by international law, and when to set it aside as a barrier to survival or well-being...
> ...


Rubbish...

We do it all the time...

So do a great many other countries around the globe...

By the way...

To Israel, their security and survival are not a false guise for their actions...

Their actions and policies are directly and inextricably intertwined with their security and survival...

For example... give back the Golan and you give the Syrians the high ground again...

Uhh-uhh... no way... and no reason to...

It is, indeed 'their problem'...

Their solution to addressing that problem may be seen in their continued pursuit of the reconquest and re-acquisition of all the lands of their Old Kingdom or Eretz Yisrael...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



A UN Security Council resolution called for an armistice ended the fighting in the 1948 war. Nobody lost.

The borders of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Palestine remained unchanged from before the war.

BTW:



> 2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary,...
> 
> The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949


----------



## Quadravius (Feb 9, 2014)

Sally said:


> Nothing about the violations to human decency regarding all those people in the Middle East murdering innocent others in the name of their religion???



You are talking about israeli settlers violating the rights of palestinian citizens by stealing their land by force while using their religion as justification for it?


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing about the violations to human decency regarding all those people in the Middle East murdering innocent others in the name of their religion???
> ...


Oh, goody, another pro-Palestinian sock-puppet...


----------



## toastman (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



*Nobody lost*

 

1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israeli victory; Palestinian Arab defeat; Arab League strategic failure;[1] Armistice Agreements


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Nobody surrendered. Nobody lost any land.

You have a funny definition of losing.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



* Nobody lost.*

Loser says what?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



What did they lose?


----------



## toastman (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




The war . Try to keep up.


----------



## toastman (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



False, the 'Palestinians' lost 50% of the land allotted to them in the partition plan. 

How do you not know this ???!!?!


----------



## Quadravius (Feb 9, 2014)

This shows how jews have continued to keep stealing land from palestinians.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > toastman said:
> ...



The Palestinians did not "lose" any land. They are just occupied.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> This shows how jews have continued to keep stealing land from palestinians.


Fun, ain't it?

At this rate, the Jews of Israel should have recaptured all of Eretz Yisrael - the lands encompassing all the Old Kingdoms of Israel, Judah, etc., within a few more years...

Gotta love those Israelis... smart as the dickens... tough as nails... brass balls... and determined never to let The World make chumps outta them again...

Good on them...

After gettin' their asses kicked for 2000 years and getting screwed time-and-again by The World and The Law, they're finally standing up for themselves again...

One heckuva 2000-year-old Comeback Kid story...

Perhaps by the year 3948, the Palestinians will have a similar story to tell...

But, 66 years on (since the 1948 Israeli Declaration of Statehood and Independence), the Palestinians are in the infancy of any such journey through time...

And Smart Vegas Money says the so-called Palestinians will be dispersed into Jordan and Lebanon by 2025 or 2030 and dissolve into their diverse elements and assimilate back into the local populace and lose whatever half-ass artificially conjured cohesion they have, within 30-50 years after being expelled from Eretz Yisrael...

The Palestinians haven't got the heart or the brains or the balls or the motivation to retain their artificial cohesion as a so-called people... not even for 200 years... never mind 2000...

Nature has already de-selected these pissants...

Rather like a chicken that has just had its head cut off, running about the barnyard and flapping its wings and spouting great amounts of blood everywhere, until it finally figures out that it's dead and does the decent thing and lies down and is still...

Keep a close eye on that green-zone... it's shrunk even more since 2000... and we all know what happens in the end-game...

Eviction by force and expulsion...

And it's-a-comin'...

As sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west...


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Why should I when I don't have any.


Then why did you make the claim?



Phoenall said:


> But the Jews have produced the deeds and the muslims only ever produce rusty mass produced keys


How do you know that, if you don't have any evidence?


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> So just when did Israel fire the first shot ?


When their tanks rolled across the border into Egypt.


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 9, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Not Israeli land but JEWISH LAND, can you see the difference yet or are you so steeped in your hatred for the Jews and Israel.
> 
> The land under the right of return is Jewish, not Israeli, so the Jews who lived there prior to 1948 and who were forcibly evicted by the muslims have the legal right under right of return to claim this land back.
> 
> Or do you believe that INTERNATIONAL LAW does not extend to the JEWISH PEOPLE and only applies to muslim free loaders.


Why do jewish-Palestinian's have the right of return, but arab-Palestinian's do not?

Over 700,000 arab-Palestinian residents were driven out by jewish terrorist groups like Irgun. 

 Zionists are responsible for bringing in all the hostility and violence into that area.


----------



## toastman (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Not Israeli land but JEWISH LAND, can you see the difference yet or are you so steeped in your hatred for the Jews and Israel.
> ...



lol


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Not Israeli land but JEWISH LAND, can you see the difference yet or are you so steeped in your hatred for the Jews and Israel.
> ...



*Why do jewish-Palestinian's have the right of return, but arab-Palestinian's do not?*

They should be allowed to return.....to Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia.

Their Moslem brothers won't let them.


----------



## Quadravius (Feb 9, 2014)

Kondor3 - the problem is the modern day "jews" have no ties whatsoever in any way to the ancient israelites.  They arent the same people.  So they havent kept their identity for 2000 years, theyve simply stolen an identity in recent times.  Jews dont even worship yahweh, the god of the bible who commanded the ancient israelites.  But yet they still claim "god" gave them that land when they dont even worship the god that gave that land to an ancient people.  Once this truth gets out and becomes more known, their gig is going to be up.  Because what israel is now is only able to exist because theyre taking advantage of other white people by playing eternal victimhood.  Once christians around the world realize that the "jews" are not the biblical jews, then they will immediately lose support among christians worldwide.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> This shows how jews have continued to keep stealing land from palestinians.



Don't tell Tinnie, he says the Arabs didn't lose anything.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> _Kondor3 - the problem is the modern day "jews" have no ties whatsoever in any way to the ancient israelites. They arent the same people. So they havent kept their identity for 2000 years, theyve simply stolen an identity in recent times.  Jews dont even worship yahweh, the god of the bible who commanded the ancient israelites. But yet they still claim "god" gave them that land when they dont even worship the god that gave that land to an ancient people._


Yes, we've all been over the genetics studies a thousand times around here...

So has the rest of the world, which understands the truth of the matter well enough, and has for many decades...

The religion has kept its identity for 2000 years through extraordinary pogroms and persecution...

The People have kept their identity as well, as a worldwide collaboration of linked and related ethnic communities which have also experienced considerable local admixture...

And it was this admixture of ancient Hebrew blood and bloodlines from Babylon and Samaria and the Urals and Caucuses and Eastern Europe that perpetuated the bloodlines and faith and traditions and customs and law that comprise modern Judaism...

The Jews of Europe were not sent to the gas chambers because they were 1/10 Hebrew, 4/10 Petcheg, 1/10 Slav, 1/10 Turkic, 2/10 Babylonian-Iraqi-Persian, and 1/10 Euro-Aryan...

The Jews of Europe were sent to the gas chambers because of the religion they practiced and the traditions they preserved.

Like most of their kindred souls worldwide, the Jews of Israel are, indeed, the inheritors and (_even genetically, partially_) perpetuators of the Jewish-Hebrew faith and traditions and soul of old.

Their recent experiences in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s get them a Free Pass to do a lot of shit; including re-taking their ancestral and spiritual homeland, and carving out a new home for themselves, distinct from a lying, conniving, bullying outside world.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 9, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Quadravius said:
> 
> 
> > This shows how jews have continued to keep stealing land from palestinians.
> ...



<snicker>


----------



## Quadravius (Feb 9, 2014)

The original israelites were black.  Because they came from egypt, and egypt was a black african society.  The same way white people have stolen credit for egyptian society, theyve stolen the identity of the israelites.


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 9, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> They should be allowed to return.....to Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia.


They weren't living there.

How do you return to a place you were never at?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > They should be allowed to return.....to Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia.
> ...



*Good point!*


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

Our friend PF Tinmore is correct, an Armistice Line is not a Treaty Protected boundary, but it is covered and respected by International Law in the same way that a International boundary is covered.



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...


*(OBSERVATION)*



			
				DECLARATION ON PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL LAW FRIENDLY RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION AMONG STATES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CHARTER OF THE UNITED NATIONS said:
			
		

> Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to *violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement *to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect. Nothing in the foregoing shall be construed as prejudicing the positions of the parties concerned with regard to the status and effects of such lines under their special regimes or as affecting their temporary character.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ DECLARATION ON PRINCIPLES OF INTERNATIONAL LAW



Be careful of "Half Truths."  All good Palestinian Propaganda has a bit of truth to it.  Just not the whole truth.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Quadravius (Feb 9, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Quadravius said:
> 
> 
> > _Kondor3 - the problem is the modern day "jews" have no ties whatsoever in any way to the ancient israelites. They arent the same people. So they havent kept their identity for 2000 years, theyve simply stolen an identity in recent times.  Jews dont even worship yahweh, the god of the bible who commanded the ancient israelites. But yet they still claim "god" gave them that land when they dont even worship the god that gave that land to an ancient people._
> ...



Jews dont even worship the same god as the black israelites in the bible did.  Jews refuse to say the name yahweh because it is a curse to them.  They got no claims to israel as a nation.



> Their recent experiences in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s get them a Free Pass to do a lot of shit; including re-taking their ancestral and spiritual homeland, and carving out a new home for themselves, distinct from a lying, conniving, bullying outside world.



So just because one group of white people bully another group of whites, that gives them the right to steal land from a group of colored people who have resided in those lands for over 2000 years?  At least you admit to giving them an excuse to be racist though.  Which reflects on you personally.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> The Palestinians did not "lose" any land. They are just occupied.



Arab property owners in the West Bank have lost a great deal of land to the Israelis who have confiscated their land for "military" purposes but converted the land into civilian settlements, which violates the 4th Geneva Conventions which Israel is a signatory to.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Rubbish...
> 
> We do it all the time...
> 
> ...



Israeli settlements built in the West Bank on private land confiscated from Arabs for military purposes and then used for civilian purposes were built illegally.  This is why Israel is disliked around the world.


----------



## toastman (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Quadravius said:
> ...



You calling someone else a racist??

You've mocked the Holocaust and the Jewish people many times, so you really should shut the fuck up


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> "..._just because one group of white people bully another group of whites, that gives them the right to steal land_..."


No, that does not give them the right.

They gave _themselves_ the right, and maintain that right, through force of arms.

Don't like it? Go pick up a rifle and join the Palestinians.



> "..._At least you admit to giving them an excuse to be racist though_..."


I do no such thing.



> "..._Which reflects on you personally._"


Don't try to be clever, junior... you'll do yourself an injury.


----------



## Quadravius (Feb 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> You calling someone else a racist??
> 
> You've mocked the Holocaust and the Jewish people many times, so you really should shut the fuck up



That doesnt change the fact that the real israelites were black, and the ones there now are white supremacist liars and sharlatans


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> That doesnt change the fact that the real israelites were black, and the ones there now are white supremacist liars and sharlatans



This thread is about Israel and international law.

Please take this discussion about race and the Jews elsewhere.


----------



## Quadravius (Feb 9, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> They gave _themselves_ the right, and maintain that right, through force of arms.
> 
> Don't like it? Go pick up a rifle and join the Palestinians.



OK, ill remember that next time nazis rise to power and start stuffing jews in gas chambers again, and apply the same logic you're using from the flip side.  

Just like the nazis bullied unarmed civilian jews, who didnt have a military to fight back with, the jews are doing it to palestinians under the same situation, and youre defending them for it.  

keep being a hypocrite.  

Maybe someone should give the palestinians some fighter jets, and bombs with "made in the usa" stamped on the side of them, that way both sides can fight on an equal playing field.


----------



## toastman (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > They gave _themselves_ the right, and maintain that right, through force of arms.
> ...



Ah, the ol' nazi comparison tactic. A telltale sighn that you have your back to the wall and no argument


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> "..._Maybe someone should give the palestinians some fighter jets, and bombs with 'made in the usa' stamped on the side of them, that way both sides can fight on an equal playing field_."


Nahhhh... we like Jews much better than Muslims... always have... always will...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> Our friend PF Tinmore is correct, an Armistice Line is not a Treaty Protected boundary, but it is covered and respected by International Law in the same way that a International boundary is covered.
> 
> ...



It is true that armistice lines are defined by treaty and do have an element of international law. It is a legal agreement between the parties.

In Palestine the lines specifically did not define the borders of any state. They merely divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. In all three areas it was always described as land under *control* never as land under *possession*.


----------



## Quadravius (Feb 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> Ah, the ol' nazi comparison tactic. A telltale sighn that you have your back to the wall and no argument



None of you have even tried to touch any of my arguments.  Because you got nothing.  You all are just ganging up and trolling because I show up with the facts.  Jews dont even worship the god of the bible, yahweh, who was the god of the ancient black israelites.  Jews worship adonai AKA, lucifer.


----------



## toastman (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



Three areas of occupation ?? What are you lying about now ? Show me a map of these three areas of occupation


----------



## Quadravius (Feb 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> We don't touch your arguments because no one cares what a piece of NAzi trash like yourself thinks. Go to stormfront.org, you will fir right in



Really weak, call me nazi trash as a cop-out.  Ive known 2 jews personally, and both of them told me the real god of the jews is not the same god as the christians, and they actually worship lucifer.  They also told me to not say yahweh around them, because that name is a curse on them for disobeying yahweh.  Basically the ancient israelites mess up in a huge way, because they disobeyed yahweh, so then yahweh curses them.  I dont know the entire story, but anyway, the jews eventually renounce yahweh, and worship lucifer now.  Yahweh/jehova/allah are the same god, and when god returns there will be hell to pay for the jews.  Its still sorta confusing because the original israelites were black.  These modern day jews are just lucifer worshippers, who claim they got a right to land that yahweh, a god who gave land to the ancient israelites, that they don't even believe in.  

I posed a couple replies in opposing views over there several years ago, and they never showed up.  Why would they welcome a black man over there?  Those rednecks are all about stringing up a black man.


----------



## SAYIT (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Ah, the ol' nazi comparison tactic. A telltale sighn that you have your back to the wall and no argument
> ...



You've posted no facts, Princess, and your purpose here has been duly noted:
"White people were never looked at as being inferior, apes, trash, *******..."  QuadNazi


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Israel needs to respect the international laws that they have signed.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Israel needs to respect the international laws that they have signed.



Is there anything incumbent upon any other nation in respect to these signed agreements?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Is there anything incumbent upon any other nation in respect to these signed agreements?



All signatories to the 4th Geneva Conventions are bound by them when they Occupy territory after a war.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Is there anything incumbent upon any other nation in respect to these signed agreements?
> ...



Be explicit.
If you are going to be explicit in terms of mentioning Israel, be explicit in mentioning the others.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Be explicit.
> If you are going to be explicit in terms of mentioning Israel, be explicit in mentioning the others.



An interesting dispute exists over the Kuril Islands in the North Pacific, between Russia and Japan.

Russia occupies the islands and has annexed them but Japan claims them as their territory.

Russia is bound by the 4th Geneva Conventions in regards to their actions on these islands.

Kuril Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

toastman said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 9, 2014)

If you think the Israelis are in violation of treaty, then, by all means, feel free to take them to court.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> If you think the Israelis are in violation of treaty, then, by all means, feel free to take them to court.



I hope and pray that if no final peace accord is reached between Israel and Palestine in the current talks, Palestine will take the issue of the settlements built on stolen land to the ICC.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Be explicit.
> ...



So basically everyone is violating agreements left and right.
Damn Israel!


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> So basically everyone is violating agreements left and right.
> Damn Israel!



Apples and Oranges.

The Israel Palestine conflict is at the heart of a very strategic area for trade and international affairs.

The north Pacific is pretty meaningless.


----------



## Quadravius (Feb 9, 2014)

Israel is committing genocide against palestinians too.  



> Genocide
> 
> GENOCIDE
> 
> ...



Israeli government is definitely guilty of 1 through 3, not sure about 4.

For example, when they massacred palestinians at jenin refugee camp, and bulldozed a civilian area.  THAT is genocide.

Ill even go as far as saying that the government of israel is the worst offender of genocide anywhere in the world right now.

But they get a pass for it?  Israel is the only government in the world that gets people defending them for acts of genocide.  Most of them are paid shills on TV who just tow the zionist line to a T and get paid millions a year to do it.  Sean hannity, glenn beck, bill oreilly, mike huckabee, etc.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 9, 2014)

Quadravius said:


> Israel is committing genocide against palestinians too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> 3 Deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to physically destroy the group (the whole group or even part of the group)



This includes destroying shelter, crops, and water sources. All well documented actions by Israel.


----------



## Connery (Feb 9, 2014)

*Thread cleaned, infractions issued.

The Administration and the Moderation Team are serious in their efforts to have a civil discourse as it pertains to the OP and any further posts which violate Zone 2 rules will be viewed in a more serious manner where infractions  will be administered on a case by case basis.*


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 9, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> This includes destroying shelter, crops, and water sources. All well documented actions by Israel.



Israel has also confiscated Arab private land and then used it for Israeli civilian settlements which clearly violates the 4th Geneva Conventions stipulations regarding Occupied Territory.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 9, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > This includes destroying shelter, crops, and water sources. All well documented actions by Israel.
> ...



Can you be specific as to the facilities confiscated and whether or not those facilities were being used for potential military type operations?


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 10, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Can you be specific as to the facilities confiscated and whether or not those facilities were being used for potential military type operations?


"potential military type", does not satisfy the definition of "military necessity", which would make any attack on those facilities legal.


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 10, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Is there anything incumbent upon any other nation in respect to these signed agreements?


Not when it comes to war crimes.

Just because one country commits war crimes against your country, does not give your country the right to commit war crimes in return.  They are deliberately set up to punish the one who committed the crime without any derogation.

It is illegal to commit a war crime under any condition.


----------



## jillian (Feb 10, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Over and over again, this thread shows the propaganda machine LYING about History in order to turn the world against Israel.........The last video is the truth as it has been posted during this thread by various posters.................
> 
> None of the countries in the Middle East Existed until the 20th Century.  NONE OF THEM...........They were all part of the Ottoman Empire, which also included Egypt and Libya.................The Ottoman Empire fell in WWI and the area was OCCUPIED by the BRITISH and FRENCH................
> 
> ...



all of that is correct.

and none of it will matter to the shills who post anti-semitic garbage day after day after day after day after day..


----------



## jillian (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sally said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



as has been explained to you repeatedly, Israel is not in violation of international law. but assuming arguendo it was,

why aren't you making the same demands of palestinians who have received billions of dollars from us?

oh wait&#8230; i know!


----------



## pbel (Feb 10, 2014)

jillian said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Sally said:
> ...



As explained to you often enough, your airhead explanations always deny the obvious facts in front of you ( UN condemnation of Settlements) in the airhead Betty Boop style..,.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Be explicit.
> ...



Who lives there?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

The UN is a joke.  Enough said.

*12 November 2013 &#8211; The General Assembly today elected 14 countries to serve on the United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) for a period of three years beginning on 1 January 2014.

Algeria, China, Cuba, France Maldives, Mexico, Morocco, Namibia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Viet Nam, Russia, and United Kingdom, were elected by secret ballot today at UN Headquarters in New York.*


----------



## pbel (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> The UN is a joke.  Enough said.
> 
> *12 November 2013  The General Assembly today elected 14 countries to serve on the United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) for a period of three years beginning on 1 January 2014.
> 
> Algeria, China, Cuba, France Maldives, Mexico, Morocco, Namibia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Viet Nam, Russia, and United Kingdom, were elected by secret ballot today at UN Headquarters in New York.*



Airhead #2 floats in with the usual disregard for International Law and the UN of which Israel is a signatory.

Israel should leave the UN or be expelled!


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > If you think the Israelis are in violation of treaty, then, by all means, feel free to take them to court.
> ...


Wake me up when that happens...

And, when it does...

The ICC will make a ruling...

They will send a copy to the Israeli government...

The appropriate Israeli government agency will receive the formal copy of the ruling...

Those administrators will then make a decision as to where to re-task the paper...

To augment its supply of toilet paper...

Feel free to proceed at the ICC, at your discretion...

It'll save the Israelis a trip to their local Sams' Club...


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

pbel said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > The UN is a joke.  Enough said.
> ...



Who you calling an airhead?  
You are a fine one to vilify Israel when it adheres to far more than some of the above countries.

UN resolutions are non-binding.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

pbel said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > The UN is a joke.  Enough said.
> ...






 You would not really like that as it would mean that Israel would no longer be obliged to stay within the UN resolutions. This is what the palli animals rely on when they attack Israeli children. It is also why they refuse to sign any peace treaties.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > This includes destroying shelter, crops, and water sources. All well documented actions by Israel.
> ...





 Actually it doesn't as the Palestinians are not bound by the conventions, so according to the conventions they do not apply. Here is the part covering this

 Article 4 defines who is a Protected person: Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals.* But it explicitly excludes Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention *


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



*That means that the Palestinians are not terrorists because they violate no laws.*


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



I was just going by Phoenall's post.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

pbel said:


> "...usual disregard for International Law..."


Israel does a decent job of complying with International Law insofar as may be practicable.

Where it is not practicable, we are dealing in matters of safety-security and survival, and, still, they generally violate to as minimal an extent as may be practicable, while ensuring safety-security and survival.

Survival and safety-security - both short- and long-term - always trump International Law in the minds of the so-called violating party.

Always.

Sometimes, it's a valid perception; sometimes not.

In the case of Israel, it's usually a valid perception, and they have the balls to do what is needed, to ensure their safety-security and survival, despite what anyone else thinks.

As would any head of a family - taking care of his own first, with as little damage to others as may be practicable, but regardless of what others think - his family coming first in his calculations and actions. Human. Understandable. Laudable.

There is not a sane country on the face of the planet that would trade its survival for strict adherence to International Law.

The Israelis are no different in that regard.

They are a nation of refugees from a horrific slaughter 70 years ago, with that slaughter still within living memory, and they aren't about to take your shit - or mine - or that of some of the weasels at the UN General Assembly - to block their 2000 year-old goal of reclaiming Eretz Yisrael as a final redoubt and homeland for Jews around the world, now that the world has demonstrated a penchant for slaughtering them in their millions.

Eretz Yisrael is the price the world must pay for the Holocaust. The Muslim-Arab Palestinians of the region are merely in-the-way, and need to be moved elsewhere.

The Jews of Israel are a people under siege and they fully intend to survive this time, and ultimately to thrive; not willing to take shit from either you or I, on the road to reclaiming the full extent of their old ancestral and spiritual homeland.

Their former monstrous and cosmic suffering as a people, and the courage that they have demonstrated in holding themselves together for 2000 years and reclaiming what was once theirs, has excited the admiration and support of much of the world, even amongst those who publicly cluck their tongues and wag their fingers at Israel, in order to keep the Arab oil flowing their way.

Not to mention the 'Guilt Factor' over the Holocaust, and the extra slack that the Israelis get from The West as a sort of unspoken (but very real) penance for allowing so many of them to be killed in the 1930s and 1940s.

So, insofar as International Law is concerned, if the Israelis aren't actually slaughtering the Palestinians - sweeping through Gaza and the West Bank and killing everything that moves - then The World is willing to give them a lot more latitude than most others get, due to their special circumstances and needs.



> "..._and the UN_..."


The UN is a toothless old ladies' debating society.

It is a place where the Lilliputians of the world band together to try to keep the Gullivers in check.

Set up by the Gullivers to keep the Lilliputians quiet.

And controlled - ultimately - through the Five Permanent Gullivers on the Security Council.

In the long run, International Law is what the Five Gullivers say it is, or what they'll tolerate.

If you're a mid-sized type - a Regional Gulliver - bigger or stronger than your neighbors but not big enough to have a seat amongst the Big Five Gullivers - and if you're good friends with one of the Big Five Gullivers - you can pretty much do what you want, within reason, so long as you don't go around massacring whole populations and whatnot.

Annex their old lands when they abandon them or as spoils of war? No problem.

Seize and annex additional parcels of land when they won't reach a compromise and continue to shoot at you? No problem.

Wall-off the Lilliputians so they can't hurt your own people with guns and suicide vests? No problem.

Smack the shit out of the Lilliputians when they fire rockets at your people or dig tunnels for guerrilla sorties? No problem.

Evict and expel them to other Lilliputian lands when you've had enough? No problem.

It's called 'Friends with Benefits' - being Best Buds with one of the Big Five Gullivers.

Of course, it helps to have a track record as a much-savaged Lilliputian clan yourselves.

The UN General Assembly - the global town hall for the Lilliputians - will bitch and piss and moan and 'resolve' - dominated as it is by Arab sympathizers and Lilliputians who need Arab oil much worse than we do, or who do not face such in-your-face hostile populations themselves, or wussies who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

The UN Security Council - dominated by the Big Five Gullivers - ultimately decides whether to take seriously the proceedings and 'resolve' of the Lilliputians in the General Assembly.

The UN?

Don't make me laugh.

Some of its agencies do good and necessary work around the world - bless 'em.

As a world-governance body, however... you attribute far too much effectiveness to them and far too little skepticism and powerlessness.

In the Real World, it doesn't work that way.



> "..._Israel should leave the UN or be expelled!_"


Israel can certainly leave the UN if it likes, but I think that would be a mistake; always better to have a seat in the Global Town Hall than not.

As to being 'expelled', well... to expel Israel, you would have to expel a sizable number of other members using the same grounds or basis - Lilliputians and Gullivers alike.

Besides, Israel has a very good friend amongst the Big Five Gullivers, and you need the 'recommendation' and 'approval' of the Security Council, before the Lilliputians in the General Assembly are allowed to vote on expelling, under the UN Charter, Section II, Articles 5 and 6.

See how that works? Isn't that cool?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > "...usual disregard for International Law..."
> ...



​


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > "...usual disregard for International Law..."
> ...



Israel is the price the Palestinians pay for the Holocaust in Europe.

Israel tried to forcibly relocate the rest of the Arabs in 1949 or 1950... Chaim Weizmann  approached Ibn Saud to take them in to Arabia to build TAPLINE.. instead of giving those jobs to Saudis. He also approached ARAMCO.. and the US.. He wanted the US to pay for the relocation.

This is not well known but it is referenced in the Mulligan Papers.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> "...  ..."


Thanks... it seemed a good time to recapitulate something about the way the *Real World* works, in that context...


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> "..._Israel is the price the Palestinians pay for the Holocaust in Europe_..."


Yep.

Life isn't always fair.

Shit happens.

Like I said, the Palestinians are in the way, and need to be moved.

Perhaps _The UN_ should help the Palestinians resettle elsewhere, if it _really_ wants to be helpful, eh?


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > "..._Israel is the price the Palestinians pay for the Holocaust in Europe_..."
> ...



Creating new refugee populations never works out.

They really need to learn to live together.. and it would help if Israel stopped tearing down homes and olive groves and  bullying the Negev Bedouin.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...


It's the only answer.

Perhaps if we did a better job of resettling this time than any previous attempt...

We can even send the Israelis part of the bill, while picking up some of the tab ourselves...



> "..._They really need to learn to live together_..."


You *DO* understand just how naive that sounds, don't you?

Ain't gonna happen. Neither side has it in 'em. The Jews have had a bellyful of Dhimmitude. The Arabs grew too accustomed to the Jews *AS* Dhimmis. The tables are turned now. Pigs will fly before that happens.



> "..._and it would help if Israel stopped tearing down homes and olive groves and bullying the Negev Bedouin._"


All part of the reclamation and consolidation of Eretz Yisrael. Everything within those boundaries is fair game, and we can expect more as time goes by, until that reclamation and consolidation is complete.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Yep.
> 
> Life isn't always fair.
> 
> ...



This is the goal of many Israelis.  They wish to force the millions of non-Jews in the West Bank to move to another state.  It is because of this goal that Israel has so many enemies throughout the world.  It is because of this goal that Israel has very few fans.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> pbel said:
> 
> 
> > "...usual disregard for International Law..."
> ...



Israel has committed to abide by the 4th Geneva Conventions, and openly flaunting that they have the right to abide by them when they see fit and ignore them when they see fit is one of the many reasons why Israel gets so much criticism and has many enemies throughout the world.

Perhaps if they commited to remaining true to the 4th Geneva Conventions and acted in such a manner they would have more friends.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep. Life isn't always fair. Shit happens. Like I said, the Palestinians are in the way, and need to be moved. Perhaps _The UN_ should help the Palestinians resettle elsewhere, if it _really_ wants to be helpful, eh?
> ...


By Jove, I think you've got it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





The Jews have always had very few friends in the world, as a scattered people...

The Jews have a few more friends, as a unified people, but only a few...

They're accustomed to that, through long centuries of oppression and pogrom...

Nothing new to them...

They don't need a lot of friends...

But they're glad to include us at the top of that short list...


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> "..._Israel has committed to abide by the 4th Geneva Conventions, and openly flaunting that they have the right to abide by them when they see fit and ignore them when they see fit is one of the many reasons why Israel gets so much criticism and has many enemies throughout the world. Perhaps if they commited to remaining true to the 4th Geneva Conventions and acted in such a manner they would have more friends._"


They need to survive, more than they need friends.

They abide by various treaties and law insofar as is practicable for them under their circumstances, but when those get in the way of survival matters, survival comes first. This is not a difficult concept to understand.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Actually it doesn't as the Palestinians are not bound by the conventions, so according to the conventions they do not apply. Here is the part covering this
> 
> Article 4 defines who is a Protected person: Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals.* But it explicitly excludes Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention *



The 4th Geneva Conventions clearly states that even if only one party to a conflict is a signatory of the Conventions, that one state is still bound by its commitments.

Israel signed the 4th Geneva Conventions and is therefore legally bound by them until such time as they withdraw from it.

If Israel and Israelis feel that the protections for people set forth in the 4th Geneva Conventions are too cumbersome, too much of a burden or get in the way of their nationalist/irredentalist desires, they should withdraw from the Conventions.  And for that matter withdraw from the United Nations.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Who you calling an airhead?
> You are a fine one to vilify Israel when it adheres to far more than some of the above countries.
> 
> UN resolutions are non-binding.



Which UN resolutions are non-binding?

UN General Assembly resolution 273 which accepts Israel as a full member of the UN?

UN Security Council resolution 242 which calls for all states in the region to respect each others' borders and live in full peace?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> The UN is a joke.  Enough said.
> 
> *12 November 2013  The General Assembly today elected 14 countries to serve on the United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) for a period of three years beginning on 1 January 2014.
> 
> Algeria, China, Cuba, France Maldives, Mexico, Morocco, Namibia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Viet Nam, Russia, and United Kingdom, were elected by secret ballot today at UN Headquarters in New York.*



If the UN is a joke why do many Israelis cite the UN Charter to defend their stance that their settlements in the West Bank are legal according to international law?


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You are so far --- off as to the meaning and intent.



P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

First-off, whether the GCIV applies or not, has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the Arab-Palestinian uses terrorism.  Ask the following questions:

Was the Arab-Palestinian Resistance Movement involved in organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating deadly activities committed against other States _(including, but not limited to the State of Israel)_ or their citizens?

Did the the Arab-Palestinian Resistance Movement or Government allow their respective territories to be used for any act or threat of violence, whatever its motives or purposes, that occurs in the advancement of an individual or collective criminal agenda and seeking to sow panic among people, causing fear by harming them, or placing their lives, liberty or security in danger, or seeking to cause damage to the environment or to public or private installations or property or to occupying or seizing them, or seeking to jeopardize a national resources?

Did the Arab-Palestinian Resistance Movement establish training camps, for the preparation or organization of the following acts intended to be committed against other States _(including, but not limited to the State of Israel)_ or their citizens?


Attacks on persons enjoying diplomatic immunity, including ambassadors and diplomats serving to co-operate with other States in the maintenance of international peace and security;

Premeditated murder or theft accompanied by the use of force directed against individuals, the authorities or means of transport and communications;

Acts of sabotage and destruction of public property and property assigned to a public service, even if owned by another Contracting State;

The manufacture, illicit trade in or possession of weapons, munitions or explosives, or other items that may be used to commit terrorist offenses;

Acts of piracy, hijackings, suicide bombings, and armed attacks against citizens taking no active part in the hostilities.

Declare an oath for genocide against any people; 

Openly support Jihad and the armed struggle of the Fedayeen against citizens taking no active part in the hostilities.

I think the historical record shows that the Arab-Palestinian is a textbook movement of a culture that not only supports terrorism, but uses it as it principle means of diplomacy.  The Arab-Palestinian has demonstrated, through its pattern of behaviors that it is unable to co-operate in the economic, social and cultural fields as well as in the field of science and technology and for the promotion of international cultural and educational progress without the use of force and violence. 

The historical record shows that the Arab-Palestinian, while demanding the principle of equal rights and self-determination be extended to them, are unable reciprocate in kind and extend those rights to other nations _(including, but not limited to the State of Israel)_ or their citizens.

No one, with a straight face, can say for a moment, that the Arab-Palestinian has not demonstrated the morals and characteristic of what we all have come to understand as a terrorist.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

jillian said:


> as has been explained to you repeatedly, Israel is not in violation of international law. but assuming arguendo it was,
> 
> why aren't you making the same demands of palestinians who have received billions of dollars from us?
> 
> oh wait i know!



Of course Israel is in violation of international law.

They are in violation of the 4th Geneva Conventions, the Mandate for Palestine, and the UN Charter.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Can you be specific as to the facilities confiscated and whether or not those facilities were being used for potential military type operations?



Israel has confiscated tens of thousands of dunams of land in the West Bank that belong to Arab private property owners.

Peace Now conducted a thorough and comprehensive analysis of all settlements in the West Bank using information provided to them by the Israeli government and found that around 33% of all settlement land is in fact Arab private property that was seized by Israel since 1967 for military purposes.

This violates the 4th Geneva Conventions.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > as has been explained to you repeatedly, Israel is not in violation of international law. but assuming arguendo it was, why aren't you making the same demands of palestinians who have received billions of dollars from us? oh wait i know!
> ...


Fun, ain't it?


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Can you be specific as to the facilities confiscated and whether or not those facilities were being used for potential military type operations?
> ...








Don't like it?

Pick up a rifle and fight for the Palestinians.

Their Arab neighbors sure-as-hell won't, any more.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You are so far --- off as to the meaning and intent.
> 
> ...




It doesn't help that Israel destroys olive trees and homes.. It doesn't help that they take land.... and water.

It doesn't help that the West Bank settlement homes are Jewish only.. and roads are Jewish only.

Take a lesson from the SodaStream manufacturer.. Jews and Muslims work together... and get along fine.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

That's what happens when one people push another people off their land.

It's the Arabs' turn in the barrel.


----------



## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



Article 4 isn't the only law, dummy.

Your buddies are still terrorists.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Don't like it?
> 
> Pick up a rifle and fight for the Palestinians.
> 
> Their Arab neighbors sure-as-hell won't, any more.





Kondor3 said:


> That's what happens when one people push another people off their land.
> 
> It's the Arabs' turn in the barrel.



Such disregarding of international laws that Israel has sworn to abide by and ignoring the rights of other peoples is one of the many reason why many throughout the world don't take Israel's side and want to boycott Israel.

I don't agree with them for the most part but I do understand their reasonings, based on the attitudes you have expressed.  They are not condusive to a friendly relationshio between Israel and the rest of humanity.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> That's what happens when one people push another people off their land.
> 
> It's the Arabs' turn in the barrel.



Why was it necessary to push anyone off their land?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> You are so far --- off as to the meaning and intent.
> 
> ...





> Was the Arab-Palestinian Resistance Movement involved in organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating deadly activities committed against other States (including, but not limited to the State of Israel) or their citizens?



Have the Palestinians attacked anyone outside of their own borders since the 70s?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



So, what international laws are they violating that apply to them?


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > That's what happens when one people push another people off their land.
> ...


The Jews needed relocating after The Slaughter.

They wanted to go back to where their Old Kingdom had existed.

There wasn't anything more than a flea-bitten collection of underperformers using the land at the time anyway.

We (the West) decided to give 'em their hearts desire - after having gone through so much - and let the Jews proceed.

That set everything else into motion - and it's waaaayyy too late to back out now.

All that remains to be done is to see the thing through to its inevitable conclusion.

That means relocating the remaining descendants of those flea-bitten underperformers.

Who - sitting in refugee shitholes for 66 years - are, perhaps, not as far removed from 'under-performing' status as one might otherwise like to think.

They were never a 'People'.

And they are a 'failed state' wannabe that never was.

Nature has de-selected them.

They are dying as a people.

The Arabs have already and largely pulled them off life support.

Time to give 'em pain-killers, get 'em relocated, and let 'em die with dignity as a so-called People - to assimilate into the populations of the surrounding Muslim countries - so that they and their families live and thrive as individuals, anyway - someplace else - rather than remaining in agony for the amusement of those who would use them as political fodder.

It's the merciful thing to do for the Palestinians under the circumstances... it's the right thing to do under the circumstances.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



So under performers can be pushed off the land? So much for human rights.


----------



## montelatici (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



What a disgusting racist diatribe.  Sounds like Goebbels talking about the Jews.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



It does sound like Goebbels.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...





 No it just means that they don't have the protection of the Geneva conventions. They still violate laws when they use terrorist tactics and can be tried in other countries for their crimes. Israel having signed up to the Geneva conventions is covered and understands that they must abide by them when dealing with another nation bound by the conventions.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 10, 2014)

Quadravius,  _et al,_

This is a very chld-like assessment you have made.



Quadravius said:


> Israel is committing genocide against palestinians too.
> Israeli government is definitely guilty of 1 through 3, not sure about 4.
> 
> For example, when they massacred palestinians at jenin refugee camp, and bulldozed a civilian area.  THAT is genocide.
> ...


*(OBSERVATION)*

Yes, the act of "Genocide" is defined by the International Criminal Code (Rome Statute).



			
				Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court said:
			
		

> *Article 6*
> *Genocide*
> 
> For the purpose of this Statute, genocide means any of the following acts committed with *intent* to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
> ...



*(EXAMPLE WITH RESPECT TO INTENT)*



			
				Statement of 6 February 1948 Communicated to the Secretary-General by Mr. Isa Nakhleh said:
			
		

> 13. In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:
> (g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. *The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out  man, woman and child.*​
> I beg to remain, etc.
> /s/ Isa Nakhleh
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

In most wars you have the stand alone elements of:

(a) Killing members of the group; 
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;​
These are common element found in nearly every conflict.  They do not imply "genocide."  The elements of:

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; 
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; 
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.​
After more than six decades of conflict, it becomes pretty clear that if any of these element were true and applicable to the actions of the Israel, then a reasonable person would expect to see a significant decline in the population of the Arab-Palestinian both inside the sovereign territory of Israel and in the Occupied Territories.  Clearly, we see the opposite.

We could argue all day about how the clause "to destroy, in whole or in part" applies, just as well as we could argue how we apply "a national, ethnical, racial or religious group."  But, a key element of many crimes, as it is with genocide, is the "intent!"   What we do see, in the claim, is the exact opposite.  We see an express "intent" on the part of the Arab-Palestinian to kill every "man, woman and child" --- a very clear "intent" and articulated in no uncertain terms.  AND, you have a very clear pattern of behaviors records that demonstrate the actual attempt to carry such a threat to its conclusion.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





 No you were just trying to score points and ended up giving them away.

 They still violate International law, it just means they cant use it for their own benefit.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



So the GC applies...er no it doesn't...Uhh..yes it does...ahhh...

You are so confused. Does it apply or not?


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Quadravius,  _et al,_
> 
> This is a very chld-like assessment you have made.
> 
> ...



I remember the West Bank before the settlements ... before the checkpoints ... before the six day war.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...



Here we go again the islamonazi version of history. The setting up of Israel as a homeland for the Jews was put in place way back in the 1920's. So it had absolutely nothing to do with the holocaust. That is just an islamonazi BLOOD LIBEL.  Read the history and you see that the muslims got 3 nations and Israel 1. It was the threats of islamonazi violence that has resulted in the situation we see now in the M.E. The only answer is to force the Palestinians into accepting a UN brokered peace and borders or they will get nothing.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...


Not really.

Goebbels advocated slaughtering the Jews.

What is outlined above is a relocation of the Palestinians to some other place where they can build new and happy lives.

I don't recall Goebbels advocating to help the Jews do that, although his gang used that as a smokescreen to cart 'em away and dispose of 'em.

A bona fide population relocation effort is the only way out of this mess.

Everything else has been tried... and everything else has failed.

The only way to cut the Gordian knot now is to move one or the other population away from the other.

Given the history of the past 66 years (and more, if one ranges back to the 1880-1947 timeframe), it is the only solution that will now work, so that peace may reign once again.

Your assessment notwithstanding.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





 Why will they be refugees when they will just be returning to their nation of birth ?

 It would help if the muslims tore out the "kill the Jews" passages from the Koran and stopped being so violent


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...




The Muslims didn't get 3 countries... They already lived there.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep.
> ...





 The only problem is those millions of non Jews have already admitted that they came from other nations, and once the problems are over will move back home.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 10, 2014)

The difference between the Arab Scum and the Jews?
The Jews were the most loyal Germans.
The Jews were the most loyal Austrians.
The Jews were the most loyal citizens of every nation.

The Jews were also great scapegoats.

The Arab Scum have spent a millennia murdering people over hear gear.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Arabs run around like headless chickens not knowing their arse from their elbow.


----------



## montelatici (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



Total bullshit.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > pbel said:
> ...





 They fully abide by the Geneva conventions in as much as they apply. In the case of the west bank they don't apply because Palestine has not signed them and as such are not bound by them. It is the neo Nazi stooges that have been force fed islamonazi lies that believe the Israelis should be forced to commit suicide. Once the Palestinians have signed all parts of the Geneva conventions then they will be covered, and this means they cant breach them


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



Indeed, the vast majority of Palestinians have ancestors who predate Ottoman rule.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> "..._The Muslims didn't get 3 countries... They already lived there._"


After spending centuries taking them from others...


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


Cool.

And they'll have plenty of time to update their family genealogy tree-records, once they're happily resettled someplace else, and out of harms' way, and where they, in turn, can do no harm.


----------



## montelatici (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity, want to end up in court (and usually die of old age) in the Hague like those Serbs who tried the ethnically cleanse the Muslims from Bosnia?


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...


Yep.

Under-performers have been getting pushed off their lands since the dawn of human history.

Ask the Native Americans (Indians).


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...


That court decision will come in handy, to supplement the Israeli supply of toilet paper.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > "..._The Muslims didn't get 3 countries... They already lived there._"
> ...



Arabs have been all over the Levant, Syria etc for thousands of years..  long before Islam.. They began migrating from the Arabian peninsula between 10,000 and 6,000 BC.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



I prefer "Complete".


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



Ah, so you admit they are foreigners?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Actually it doesn't as the Palestinians are not bound by the conventions, so according to the conventions they do not apply. Here is the part covering this
> ...





 It can not contradict itself by claiming those not bound to the convention should still be afforded the rights of the convention. The above from the convention itself spells it out that nationals of a nation not bound by the conventions are not covered by the convention.

 You would like Israel to do that right up until it told the UN to go away while it sorts the Palestine problem. You are so stupid that you do not understand that withdrawing from the UN would leave the way open for WW3 to kick of when Israel refused to stop defending itself from terrorist attacks. No more cease fires, no more armistice lines, no more peace talks and no more Palestine or gaza.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Who you calling an airhead?
> ...





 All of them as all they are, are recommendations and have no status in law. The only aspects of the UN that are binding are those were member states go to war at the request of the UNSC. Look it up it is in the UN charter, and any nation not a member is not covered by the UN resolutions.

 Stall want Israel out of the UN like Palestine is ?


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



How is that different than "Jewish" migrations to Egypt, North Africa, Yemen, Iran, Iraq 2500 years ago?

In 1500 Hebron was an Arab town.. Some Jewish families who were expelled from Spain and Portugal settled in Hebron without incident.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > The UN is a joke.  Enough said.
> ...






 For exactly the same reason you afford the west bank with protected status when it is not afforded it by the Geneva conventions. It suits your POV and you think it increases the legal standing of your posts.


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## montelatici (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



That's what those Serb leaders thought, too. All are dead or in prison now.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > as has been explained to you repeatedly, Israel is not in violation of international law. but assuming arguendo it was,
> ...





 The mandate for Palestine was finished and no longer valid before Israel came into existence..  The Geneva conventions do not apply because they do not cover the west bank. Now what aspect of the UN charter are they in breach of, lets see if we can make it 3 out of 3 that you know diddly squat about.


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## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Can you be specific as to the facilities confiscated and whether or not those facilities were being used for potential military type operations?
> ...






 NOPE as the west bank is not covered by the Geneva conventions not being bound by them.


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## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> The mandate for Palestine was finished and no longer valid before Israel came into existence..  The Geneva conventions do not apply because they do not cover the west bank. Now what aspect of the UN charter are they in breach of, lets see if we can make it 3 out of 3 that you know diddly squat about.



Its funny you say that the Mandate for Palestine is no longer valid because many Israelis argue that the promises made to the Jews in the Mandate are still valid.

Of course the Geneva Conventions covers the West Bank.  It has a section just about Occupied Territories and the West Bank are clearly Occupied Territories.

The West Bank was legally Occupied by Jordan from 1949 to 1967 and now it is legally Occupied by Israel.


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## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...







Tell it to the Palestinians they are the ones causing the problems


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



Indeed, The whole "we were here first" thing is a crock of crap.

The deciding factor is that all Turkish citizens became Palestinian citizens per the Treaty of Lausanne when Palestine became the successor state. Anything else is legally irrelevant.


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## Indeependent (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > The mandate for Palestine was finished and no longer valid before Israel came into existence..  The Geneva conventions do not apply because they do not cover the west bank. Now what aspect of the UN charter are they in breach of, lets see if we can make it 3 out of 3 that you know diddly squat about.
> ...



The West Bank of Jordan was OCCUPIED by Jordan or was PART of Jordan?


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



The UN now is a joke.  Look how it speaks against Israel yet allows genocides elsewhere to go on without a comment.  The Jewish people's right to the land which includes the West Bank is protected in Law from the League of Nations and no Law has taken that right away, no Law at all.


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## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



I remember BEFORE the 67 war.. I remember there were no settlements, checkpoints or soldiers. There were NO rock throwing children.


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## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't like it?
> ...






No International laws apply so take it to a board that cares about your NAZI JEW HATRED


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Occupied. It was occupied Palestinian land.


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## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



Your language fuels hatred.


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## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Your language fuels hatred.



Its also fuels anger and animosity towards Israel and Israelis.


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## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > That's what happens when one people push another people off their land.
> ...





 Ask the muslims they have been doing this all over the world for over 1400 years. Just look at the former Yugoslavia, Darfur, Ethiopia, India, Philipines, Lebanon and Somalia


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## Indeependent (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



Wow!  They had that land and started a war because they wanted more land.
Wow!  They lost.
Wow!  Life sucks for Arabs.


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Your language fuels hatred.
> ...



You are a fine one to talk.  You spout lies like the rest of them.


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## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> The UN now is a joke.  Look how it speaks against Israel yet allows genocides elsewhere to go on without a comment.  The Jewish people's right to the land which includes the West Bank is protected in Law from the League of Nations and no Law has taken that right away, no Law at all.



If the UN is now a joke why is Israel still a member?

The League of Nations doesn't exist anymore.  Are you saying the promises and guaruntees for a Jewish homeland made in the Balfour Declaration, San Remo Conference, and Mandate for Palestine are still valid but the protections of the civil and religious rights of non-Jews are not?


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## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...





 Yes Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan to name but a few places


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## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Yes, Israel begged Jordan not to join in with the surrounding invading armies, but Jordan refused.  Victory in 1967 to the Jews.


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## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Your language fuels hatred.
> ...



I agree.. 

My experience with Israelis is somewhat limited.. but I have found them to be universally foul-mouthed and abrasive... whereas I have never see those qualities in American Jews.


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## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Wow!  They had that land and started a war because they wanted more land.
> Wow!  They lost.
> Wow!  Life sucks for Arabs.



These are the attitudes that make people want to boycott Israel.


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## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





 The ones dealing with war crimes and crimes against humanity not covered in the Geneva conventions


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## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Your language fuels hatred.
> ...


Israel exists.

Israelis exist.

That is sufficient to fuel anger and animosity towards them, on the part of many Muslims.

The language is merely a sidebar and footnote; used to express the real-world state of affairs.


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## ForeverYoung436 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



...and Sudan.  Anyway, I read this morning of 30 Israeli teens funding relief efforts for Syrian refugees.  If y'all were truly concerned about Arabs, you would direct your attention there.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Israel exists.
> 
> Israelis exist.
> 
> ...



It is true that many Arabs and Muslims hate Israel simply because it exists.

But many more hate hate Israel because of their disregard for international laws and this is the sole reason why many Europeans and other Westerners dislike Israel.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Don't like it?
> ...


They are not condusive to a friendly relationship between Israel and the Muslim world.

Given that The West has given Israel the go-ahead to create and consolidate a new State upon the lands formerly occupied by their old Kingdom...

That puts The West in an adversarial role, vis a vis the Muslim world...

Not that it hasn't been in an adversarial role vis a vis Islam for most of the time since Islam broke out of Arabia and started conquering everything in its path...

Can't blame the Jews for taking advantage of the situation to reclaim the Holy Land after a 2000 year absence, in light of what they've just been through...

And if they've gotta break a few eggs along the way in order to make that omelette... oh well.

It's not as bad as what the Arab-Muslims tried to do to them in 1948.

At least the Jews plan on allowing the Palestinians to leave, alive, rather than swearing oaths to drown them in the Mediterranean.

One day, the lions and lambs will all lie down together and live in peace.

Today is not that day.

And the Jews of Israel are smart enough to realize this, and they have the brass balls to act on that knowledge, so that their own people will nevermore be threatened with a Holocaust.

Heckuva a Comeback Story, after 2000 years of getting their asses kicked.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





 NO it does not as the Palestinians not having singed up to them cant claim their protection. But Israel can having singed up so the Palestinians can still be tried for crimes under the Geneva conventions


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> They are not condusive to a friendly relationship between Israel and the Muslim world.
> 
> Given that The West has given Israel the go-ahead to create and consolidate a new State upon the lands formerly occupied by their old Kingdom...
> 
> ...



The West allowed the Jews to re-create their nation in Palestine.  No law ever said they have the whole of Palestine, and their re-creation of their nation was conditioned upon the full and total respect for non-Jewish civil and religious rights in Palestine.

Israel has been violating that condition since 1949.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...



Don't be absurd........... 

No one wants Israel to cease to exist regardless of your selftalk. The world does want a just peace.. which Israel refused in the spring of 2002.

How are Jewish people so different from others? What keeps them ... particularly Israelis.. so isolated and paranoid?

It can't be religion .. as many Jewish people are secular.

We had 300 Israeli families move to coastal Carolina about 1992.. Gad they were obnoxious.. so much so that even the long established Jewish community couldn't stand them.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



Got links?

Forget about Israel. It is not outside of Palestine's borders.


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## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> NO it does not as the Palestinians not having singed up to them cant claim their protection. But Israel can having singed up so the Palestinians can still be tried for crimes under the Geneva conventions



You have never read the Geneva Conventions.

It says all signatories are bound by it regardless if the other party to a conflict has ratified the treaty.  I suggest you read the 4th Geneva Conventions.


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## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Do you have a link that says that. That makes no sense.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > NO it does not as the Palestinians not having singed up to them cant claim their protection. But Israel can having singed up so the Palestinians can still be tried for crimes under the Geneva conventions
> ...



4th GC blah blah blah

*Did you not read my link.  Probably not, so here it is again.  Read and learn.

Why Israel Is Not Violating Fourth Geneva Convention | United with Israel
*


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > Quadravius,  _et al,_
> ...





 When it had been ethnically cleansed of all the Jews with a legal right to live there. When they were evicted by force of arms, beaten and abused with nothing left but the clothes on their backs. The intention was to wipe out every Jew in the M.E and rid the world of the scourge once and for all. And now islam is paying the price for the botched effort.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> 4th GC blah blah blah
> 
> *Did you not read my link.  Probably not, so here it is again.  Read and learn.
> 
> ...



I have read the 4th Geneva Conventions.  You clearly haven't.

The West Bank is covered by them as they are Occupied Territory, legally Occupied by Israel.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...


One need look no further than the Hamas (or older PLO) charter or the published oaths sworn by Muslim leadership in the early days fo the conflict to realize that most of the Muslims of the region want just that - the destruction of Israel.

All foreswearing of such earlier oaths to the contrary notwithstanding. Muslims are allowed to lie to non-Muslims under a variety of circumstances, and many spin-doctor and interpret such permissions to suit their own goals and agendas. Very few non-Muslims trust their word in such matters; Jewish and non-Jewish.

By 2002 the Israelis had given up on making peace with the Palestinians and embarked upon a course of land-annexation and eviction and expulsion. The optimum time for the Palestinians to make peace would have been prior to the 1967 Six Day War. The outcome of that war changed everything and hardened the Israeli heart. I don't blame 'em a bit, in retrospect.



> "..._How are Jewish people so different from others? What keeps them ... particularly Israelis.. so isolated and paranoid?_..."


I seriously doubt that they are paranoid, collectively, but I'll invite one of our Jewish colleagues to address that. I'm not qualified.

As to what keeps them separate and isolated, you would do well to do some supplemental reading on the subject - with respect to their engaging in commerce and trade and their historical political and economic and religious needs to remain separate - in order to arrive at a better understanding of such things on your own. This tradition of separate-ness stretches back for more than a thousand years - quite probably into Antiquity, and certainly as far back as the closing centuries of the Western Roman Empire.



> "..._It can't be religion .. as many Jewish people are secular_..."


It's a mix... again, some supplemental reading on the subject - or some feedback from a Jewish colleague here, knowledgeable on the subject - might prove to be of some use.



> "..._We had 300 Israeli families move to coastal Carolina about 1992.. Gad they were obnoxious.. so much so that even the long established Jewish community couldn't stand them._"


Somebody else will have to address that one... again, I'm not qualified.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



Nonsense Arab Jews dribbled out in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 because of the behavior of the Israelis. Do you ever stop playing the victim?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





 Just as the Jews had, but then you don't like having that shown do you. But the countries did not exist under the ottoman empire and it took the mandate to create them. So the mandate created 3 new Islamic nations and 1 Jewish one from the mandate for palestine


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Of course they were part of the Ottoman Empire.. but they were inhabited by Arabs NOT European immigrants. Take a look at BonFils photo from 1870 to 1890.

Jews were a minority and apparently did quite well getting along with their neighbors. Have you ever been to the West Bank?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...





 WRONG as it is documented fact.

Hamas leader admits 'Palestinian' identity is invented - Israel Today | Israel News

 In a televised address on Al-Hekma TV last week, Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad basically backed up Gingrich's assessment, acknowledging that the roots of most "Palestinians" are elsewhere in the Middle East, and that the Palestinian label is only a thin veneer.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> "..._Have you ever been to the West Bank?_"


Forgive me for barging-in here, but, out of curiosity, have you, as a Westerner, ever spent any time living in Iran?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...





 Yes from outside of Palestine.

Hamas admits 'Palestinian' identity is invented

 "Brothers, half of the Palestinians are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis," exclaimed the Hamas minister.

 Hammad's remarks were undoubtedly never intended for a Western audience. Rather, he was pleading with Egypt and other neighboring states to supply Hamas-ruled Gaza with free fuel, which Hammad said Hamas would use "in order to continue to wage Jihad."
 - See more at: Hamas admits 'Palestinian' identity is invented


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > 4th GC blah blah blah
> ...



Had the land been taken by Israel in a attack and Israel forcibly moved its population into the WB then that would have been an illegal act.  

However Israel got the land in a defensive war and of course it belonged to the Jews from the 1922 San Remo Mandate so on the two counts  you lose your argument straight off. 

You probably made your profile here on this forum getting so excited because of the 4th Geneva Convention and couldn't wait to splurge it on all the boards here - however it is not relevant.  Sorry about that.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > "..._Have you ever been to the West Bank?_"
> ...



I never lived in Iran.. but I did make more than a dozen trips there. You aren't barging in.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





How about the Jews that the muslims ethnically cleansed from the M.E. Over 1 million forcibly removed from their property and their goods stolen by the muslims starting in 1948. Care to take this matter up and explain why the muslims are given a free pass to ethnically cleanse Jews from the M.E.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  Indeependent,  Victory67,  _et al,_

Well, I can there is a bit of confusion here.



P F Tinmore said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

The West Bank was originally unallocated territory under the protection and Trusteeship of the UN.  The UN intention was to Partition it to the Arab Higher Committee, as part of a new "Arab State."  On the Day of Independence (establishment of the Jewish State under the guidance of Resolution 181), the Arab League invaded the UN Trusteeship territory and the State of Israel.  The Arab Legion (Jordanian Army) originally "occupied" the West Bank.  Armistice Line were agreed to in 1949, encompassing the West Bank.  THEN, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan annex the territory:



			
				 Unification of the Two Banks said:
			
		

> On April 11, 1950, elections were held for a new Jordanian parliament in which the Palestinian Arabs of the West Bank were equally represented. Thirteen days later, Parliament unanimously approved a motion to unite the two banks of the Jordan River, constitutionally expanding the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in order to safeguard what was left of the Arab territory of Palestine from further Zionist expansion.
> 
> The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan now included nearly one and a half million people, more than half a million of whom were refugees evicted from Jewish-occupied Palestine. All automatically became citizens of Jordan, a right that had first been offered in December 1949 to all Palestinians who wished to claim it. Although the Arab League opposed this plan, and no other Arab government followed Jordans lead, the Hashemite Kingdom offered the possibility of normal life for many people who would have otherwise remained stateless refugees.
> 
> _*SOURCE:*_ History of Jordan:  The Tragedy of Palestine



It was not "Occupied Palestinian Lands" as our friend "P F Tinmore" would have you believe.  It was part of the unallocated portion of the "Arab State" recommended by the UN and rejected by the Arab Higher Committee.

To the HAMAS Jihadist, and the Fedayeen in the PLO, all the territory under the former Mandate of Palestine (less the Hashemite Kingdom) was some sort of bequest to the Palestinian people.

So, to recap, 

The West Bank went from UN Trusteeship to Occupied Territory by Jordanian in 1949.
The West Bank went from Occupied Territory by Jordanian in 1949, to Sovereign Territory of Jordan in 1950. 
The West Bank went from Sovereign Territory of Jordan in 1950 to Occupied Territory by Israel in 1967;
The Palestinian declared Independence in 1988, thus it become a "state" (State of Palestine) with a portion of it (the West Bank) simultaneously occupied ... and remains so - to present ...

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Where do you come up with this claptrap?

Do you know that HAMAS is also full of dummies like yourself?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



Have the Jews contacted those countries to demand their right to return?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





 But did not start on world domination until Mohamed invented islam, and gave them a religious order to kill the Jews and steal the land. The arabs you mention have all been wiped out by islam.

Hamas leader admits 'Palestinian' identity is invented

 Those pushing for a Palestinian state try to paint the Palestinian Arabs as somehow distinct from the Arabs round-about, and therefore in need of their own state. Not so, said Hammad. "Every Palestinian, in Gaza and throughout Palestine, can prove his Arab roots - whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere. We have blood ties." 

More than that, Hammad stated that the true regional background of most "Palestinians" is not in "Palestine."


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Had the land been taken by Israel in a attack and Israel forcibly moved its population into the WB then that would have been an illegal act.
> 
> However Israel got the land in a defensive war and of course it belonged to the Jews from the 1922 San Remo Mandate so on the two counts  you lose your argument straight off.
> 
> You probably made your profile here on this forum getting so excited because of the 4th Geneva Convention and couldn't wait to splurge it on all the boards here - however it is not relevant.  Sorry about that.



The 4th Geneva Conventions covers all Occupied Territory, be it conquered in a defensive or offensive war.  How they got the land doesn't matter.  

The San Remo Conference never gave all of Palestine to the Jews.  Nowhere does it state this.  Plus the Jews being allowed to settle in Palestine and create a homeland there was conditional upon the full and total protection and respect for non-Jewish rights in Palestine.  Why do you ignore this?


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...




Oh piffle.. stop lying.. It was more like 600,000 and they left in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973..

You all have a long history of exaggerations and epic lies that date to the Old Testament.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > The mandate for Palestine was finished and no longer valid before Israel came into existence..  The Geneva conventions do not apply because they do not cover the west bank. Now what aspect of the UN charter are they in breach of, lets see if we can make it 3 out of 3 that you know diddly squat about.
> ...





 That only applies to those nations bound by the Geneva conventions, Palestine is not bound by the Geneva conventions as they have not signed up to them.  Try reading the conventions fully and not cherry picking the parts that suit your POV.


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## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> That only applies to those nations bound by the Geneva conventions, Palestine is not bound by the Geneva conventions as they have not signed up to them.  Try reading the conventions fully and not cherry picking the parts that suit your POV.



You haven't read that 4th GC which clearly states in plain English that the treaty is valid if at least one party to a conflict has ratified it.

Israel ratified the 4th GC and is therefore bound to uphold it.


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## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...






 Wrong again as they became British and French citizens of Palestine, forget what the muslim says as he is twisting the facts. At no time does the treaty of Lausanne mention Palestine by name.


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## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...


Much obliged.

Your style and your positions remind me of someone who serves as a Moderator on another board, and who is (reportedly) fairly widely traveled in the Middle East and Iran and such - as the spouse of a diplomatic corps partner, I think - and who oftentimes trots out the 'have you ever lived there?' or 'have you ever visited there?' card as a tactic for attempting to gain the upper hand in related conversations.

I might be tempted to play that card myself frim time to time, but it's also possible to overdo it, especially in related matters that really don't require such a history, but, that's more a matter of personal style and moxie than anything else.

Thanks.


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## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...






 No Jews as they had been ethnically cleansed by the arabs, no free Palestinians as they were locked up behind barbed wire, no villages. It was a wasteland that no one wanted to live in. It took the 6 day war to free the Palestinians of their fetters and give them back their freedom.


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## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



I have always thought that the Arab Jews leaving was a huge loss.. They were quite prosperous and involved. When I lived in Libya they were very involved in the social scene as well as in the arts and imports.

An unintended consequence of European Zionism. Shame that.


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## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...






 And yours doesn't when you talk of the Jews ?


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## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

victory67 said:


> shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > your language fuels hatred.
> ...






 only amongst nazi anti semitic jew haters


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Actually it was lovely. and peaceful .... almond trees and olive trees, pomegranates ..

You are just  mean and ignorant SOB.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...






Lifted word for word from my post about muslims being foul mouthed and abrasive in the extreme.


----------



## montelatici (Feb 10, 2014)

_Wrong again as they became British and French citizens of Palestine_

I guess you get your history lessons from Fox News. The non-Jews were all Palestinian citizens from Ottoman times,  and the Mandate required the Mandatory to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by the new arrivals (Jews).

ART. 7. of the Mandate: 

The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel exists.
> ...






 You forget the religious compunctions that set in the place the hatred for the Jews and Christians 1400 years ago.

 Now what International laws are Israel in breach of again ?


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> _Wrong again as they became British and French citizens of Palestine_ I guess you get your history lessons from Fox News. The non-Jews were all Palestinian citizens from Ottoman times,  and the Mandate required the Mandatory to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by the new arrivals (Jews). ART. 7. of the Mandate:  The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.


Not to worry...

The Jews of Old Palestine seceeded from that Union and struck out on their own, before anything could come of it anyway...

That fait accompli was recognized by the UN in 1949...


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> only amongst nazi anti semitic jew haters



You appear to believe that only Nazis and anti-Semites believe that Israel has violated international law.

Such an attitude isn't helpful.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



I am not a moderator on any board. I am not the spouse of a diplomat. I am an oil brat.


----------



## IlarMeilyr (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Israel violates the 4th Geneva Conventions.
> 
> Israel violates the UN Charter Article 80
> 
> ...



Vicky67's primary complaint boils down to the usual anti-Semite proposition that "those" Jews are "evil" because they stubbornly refuse to permit others to exterminate them.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...






 Then do explain the arab league charter.    The PLO charter.     The hamas charter and the fatah charter that all say that Israel must be destroyed.

 This peace of 2002 what were the demands placed on Israel that go against the UN charter and the Geneva conventions. Would it be right of return to Israel by 4 million muslims that had never lived there ?
 Return to 1967 borders that had never existed and capitulation and mass suicide so the arabs could take over.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...






 According to the UN and International Law it is and you cant chang that to suit your POV

 But here is a list of Palestinian terrorist attacks

Category:Terrorist attacks attributed to Palestinian militant groups - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Then do explain the arab league charter.    The PLO charter.     The hamas charter and the fatah charter that all say that Israel must be destroyed.
> 
> This peace of 2002 what were the demands placed on Israel that go against the UN charter and the Geneva conventions. Would it be right of return to Israel by 4 million muslims that had never lived there ?
> Return to 1967 borders that had never existed and capitulation and mass suicide so the arabs could take over.



The PA amended their charter more than a decade ago.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > NO it does not as the Palestinians not having singed up to them cant claim their protection. But Israel can having singed up so the Palestinians can still be tried for crimes under the Geneva conventions
> ...





 Palestine has not signed so it does not apply. It says so at the beginning of the conventions


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...




</title> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/xsp/.ibmxspres/.mini/css/@Da&@Ib&2Tfxsp.css&2TfxspLTR.css.css"> <script type="text/javascript" src="/xsp/.ibmxspres/dojoroot-1.6.1/dojo/dojo.js" djConfig="locale: 'fr-ch'"></script> <script type=


 Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Palestine has not signed so it does not apply. It says so at the beginning of the conventions



You sir are very incorrect.

_*Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations*. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof._

The Fourth Geneva Convention | Jewish Virtual Library


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > 4th GC blah blah blah
> ...






</title> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/xsp/.ibmxspres/.mini/css/@Da&@Ib&2Tfxsp.css&2TfxspLTR.css.css"> <script type="text/javascript" src="/xsp/.ibmxspres/dojoroot-1.6.1/dojo/dojo.js" djConfig="locale: 'fr-ch'"></script> <script type=

 Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it.


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## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> </title> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/xsp/.ibmxspres/.mini/css/@Da&@Ib&2Tfxsp.css&2TfxspLTR.css.css"> <script type="text/javascript" src="/xsp/.ibmxspres/dojoroot-1.6.1/dojo/dojo.js" djConfig="locale: 'fr-ch'"></script> <script type=
> 
> Nationals of a State which is not bound by the Convention are not protected by it.



See above where I already showed how you are very incorrect.

All nations who have ratified the 4th GC are bound by it whether or not other parties to a conflict have ratified it.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...






 They were ethnically cleansed from the land by the muslims


https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/jew_refugees.html

 In 1945, roughly 1 million Jews lived peacefully in the various Arab states of the Middle East, many of them in communities that had existed for thousands of years. After the Arabs rejected the United Nations decision to partition Palestine and create a Jewish state, however, the Jews of the Arab lands became targets of their own governments anti-Zionist fervor.* As Egypts delegate to the UN in 1947 chillingly told the General Assembly: The lives of one million Jews in Muslim countries will be jeopardized by partition. The dire warning quickly became the brutal reality.*


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> The mandate for Palestine was finished and no longer valid before Israel came into existence..  The Geneva conventions do not apply because they do not cover the west bank. Now what aspect of the UN charter are they in breach of, lets see if we can make it 3 out of 3 that you know diddly squat about.



This is amusing because your compratriot  [MENTION=44172]Sweet_Caroline[/MENTION] believe that the Mandate for Palestine is still very much alive.

Your side needs to figure out and decide which international agreements are still valid and which have expired.  Its impossible to have a discussion when your side disagrees on such an important element of the debate.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





Does not mater if the Jews were a minority or not they still had the right to self determination, and they exercised that right in may 1948. Just as Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Jordan also exercised their right to self determination. The Palestinians refused and ended up in a perpetual war.
The Jews were 4th class citizens under muslim rule and could be killed on a whim, that is what history tells the world. Just as in Spain under Islamic control whole towns were put to the sword for just looking in the wrong direction.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...






 From unbiased source's and Islamic sources on the internet, are you saying that the hamas leader has lied ?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 They have been told not to bother as they will kill them


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Had the land been taken by Israel in a attack and Israel forcibly moved its population into the WB then that would have been an illegal act.
> ...





 The Geneva conventions do not apply as Palestine is not bound by them


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall, Victory67,  _et al,_

This is not a slam-dunk.  There is a general consensus here.



Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

While there is an argument to be made, Israel is on the losing side here.

There is no question that after 15 July 1999, the the State of Israel was put on notice that the Geneva Convention Rules do apply to the Occupation of Palestinian Territory.



			
				CONFERENCE OF HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES TO THE FOURTH GENEVA CONVENTION STATEMENT Geneva said:
			
		

> This statement reflects the common understanding reached by the participating High Contracting Parties to the Conference.
> After consultations among High Contracting Parties, the Conference, as recommended by UN GA Resolution ES-10/6 in its tenth Emergency Special Session 1, convened in Geneva on 15 July 1999.
> 
> The participating High Contracting Parties reaffirmed the applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention to the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem. Furthermore, they reiterated the need for full respect for the provisions of the said Convention in that Territory.
> ...



The overwhelming consensus is that the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) does apply.  But there are mitigating circumstances that reduce the severity of the violation.  These cannot be denied as well.

While I often hear the inappropriate use of the GCIV, as it is use in this context, relative to the Settlements in the West Bank, there is a very good legal case to be made, even though the original intent was not the same as the situation in the West Bank.  But if the GCIV is in general application, then the Palestinians have as much to worry about its application as the Israelis.  It is not a one-way document _(Articles 61-69 will apply and strips away the protections to insurgents, terrorist, Jihadist, and Fedayeen)_.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> The Geneva conventions do not apply as Palestine is not bound by them



Israel is bound by the 4th GC as they have ratified the treaty.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 And it was more like 5,000 Palestinians forcibly removed by the jews. 

 But here you go pick the bones out of this

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/8/refugees.pdf

 The forgotten Jewish refugees from Arab countries.
For a host of reasons  practical to parochial  Israel has failed to raise the issue of the mammoth injustice done to almost a million Jews from Arab countries. The scale and the premeditated state-sponsored nature of persecution that prompted the 1948 flight of nearly 1,000,000 Jews from their homes has only recently begun to emerge.

For decades, American presidents seeking to act as facilitators in settling the Arab-Israeli conflict have been aware that there was a flip side to the Palestinian refugee question: that is, that the rights of former Jewish refugees are no less legitimate than those of Palestinian refugees. Thus, the 1977 Camp David Accords, which established a peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, provided that the parties agree to establish a Claims Committee for the mutual settlement of all final claims. In a press conference on October 27, 1977, at the time of the signing of the Accords, President Jimmy Carter held that Palestinians have rights ... obviously there are Jewish refugees ... they have the same rights as others do. The rights of Jews displaced from Arab lands was again raised at Camp David II in July 2000, when President Bill Clinton invited Israeli Prime Minister Barak and PA Chairman Arafat to hammer out a final status agreement. In the aftermath, President Clinton spoke of  Jewish people, who lived predominantly in Arab countries who came to Israel because they were made refugees in their own land.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> "..._The overwhelming consensus is that the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) does apply. But there are mitigating circumstances that reduce the severity of the violation. These cannot be denied as well_..."


Entirely possible that this middle-ground will eventually 'control' in this setting.

Thought-provoking.

Thanks for serving that up, Rocco.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> While there is an argument to be made, Israel is on the losing side here.
> 
> There is no question that after 15 July 1999, the the State of Israel was put on notice that the Geneva Convention Rules do apply to the Occupation of Palestinian Territory.



Of course the 4th GC applies.  Its silly to argue otherwise.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...






 No a deliberate and could be very costly exercise of ethnic cleansing by the arab muslims

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/8/refugees.pdf

* Ironically, one of the first persons to note the parallel and its relevance and logic47 was Sabri Jiryis, director of the Institute of Palestine Studies in Beirut*, who wrote in the Lebanese daily Al-Nahar in 1975:
Clearly Israel will raise the question [of the expulsion of the Jews from Arab countries] in all serious negotiations  over the rights of the Palestinians.... Israels arguments will take approximately the following form.... What happened, therefore, is merely a kind of population and property transfer the consequences of which both sides have to bear. Thus Israel gathers Jews from Arab countries and the Arab countries are obligated in turn to settle the Palestinians within their own borders and work towards a solution of the problem.

Even the muslims agree that the Jews were evicted forcibly.


----------



## montelatici (Feb 10, 2014)

* And it was more like 5,000 Palestinians forcibly removed by the jews.*

One wonders if it is brainwashing or just pathological lying.  Not even the Israeli government spokesman would make such a ridiculous claim


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...





 All because the Jews were ethnically cleansed from the land by force of arms. I am truthful and a pragmatist that knows how to unearth the truth.

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/8/refugees.pdf

 A June 2003 study of Jewish refugees, the first of its kind, casts their flight from Arab lands in a new light. The study, Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries: The Case for Rights and Redress,48 compiled by a team of scholars and other professionals, sheds new light on the nature of the pressures that forced 97 percent of all the Jews in Arab countries to flee ancient well-integrated Jewish communities, some of which had existed for more than 2,500 years.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> _Wrong again as they became British and French citizens of Palestine_
> 
> I guess you get your history lessons from Fox News. The non-Jews were all Palestinian citizens from Ottoman times,  and the Mandate required the Mandatory to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by the new arrivals (Jews).
> 
> ...






No Palestinian nation until 1988, the treaty that is being quoted states that they were ottoman subjects, as in all the people Jew , Muslim, Christian and atheist. The treaty of Lausanne said that as of the fall of the ottoman empire the people became subjects on the ruling power, which was Britain and France not Palestine. It had nothing to do with the mandate as that did not come into being till 1923.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > only amongst nazi anti semitic jew haters
> ...






Show me otherwise and I will show you a NAZI


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Then do explain the arab league charter.    The PLO charter.     The hamas charter and the fatah charter that all say that Israel must be destroyed.
> ...





 No they didn't as they could not get the required number of delegates to the meeting, it was engineered that way by the PLO.

 Unless you have proof like a copy of the new charter signed and dated by the full P.A council.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Show me otherwise and I will show you a NAZI



We are fully aware that you and other Israelis believe that anyone who thinks Israel has violated any international laws, is a "Nazi.  Its very amusing and is very useful when trying to convince folks not to take Israel's side.

There is nothing more beneficial to a political argument than an opponent who utters the absurd.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Palestine has not signed so it does not apply. It says so at the beginning of the conventions
> ...





 Still it does not alter the fact that Palestine is not covered by the Geneva conventions because it is not bound by them. Israel is so has to abide by them when dealing with a party bound by the Geneva conventions.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > </title> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/xsp/.ibmxspres/.mini/css/@Da&@Ib&2Tfxsp.css&2TfxspLTR.css.css"> <script type="text/javascript" src="/xsp/.ibmxspres/dojoroot-1.6.1/dojo/dojo.js" djConfig="locale: 'fr-ch'"></script> <script type=
> ...





 Not according to the Geneva conventions.............. read the proper ones and not the ones on wiki.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3,  _et al,_

Yes, there is a grave argument to be made.



Kondor3 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > "..._The overwhelming consensus is that the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV) does apply. But there are mitigating circumstances that reduce the severity of the violation. These cannot be denied as well_..."
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

It runs directly counter to the concept that the Palestinians have a legal right to oppose, by means of force, the occupation.  Especially Article 68.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > The mandate for Palestine was finished and no longer valid before Israel came into existence..  The Geneva conventions do not apply because they do not cover the west bank. Now what aspect of the UN charter are they in breach of, lets see if we can make it 3 out of 3 that you know diddly squat about.
> ...





 Just as you think that the Sam remo is valid for Israel when it was not yet reborn. Or that the Geneva conventions apply to Palestine when they have never signed them.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > The mandate for Palestine was finished and no longer valid before Israel came into existence..  The Geneva conventions do not apply because they do not cover the west bank. Now what aspect of the UN charter are they in breach of, lets see if we can make it 3 out of 3 that you know diddly squat about.
> ...



Again you confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the San Remo Mandate.  Are you a child?  Do you not understand they are two different things entirely.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Just as you think that the Sam remo is valid for Israel when it was not yet reborn. Or that the Geneva conventions apply to Palestine when they have never signed them.



Your compatriot [MENTION=44172]Sweet_Caroline[/MENTION] believes that the San Remo Conference is still valid.

I urge you two and others Israelis to come to some agreement on this matter cause its very hard to debate this issue when your side can't agree on such an important element.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Nothing negates the San Remo Mandate to give the land of Palestine to the Jews.  The countries that signed at the League of Nations in 1922 have an *OBLIGATION* to encourage Jewish settlement in the land of Palestine, later of course to be known as the land of Israel.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Again you confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the San Remo Mandate.  Are you a child?  Do you not understand they are two different things entirely.



The San Remo Conference and the Mandate for Palestine both include the following:

_The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, *it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine*, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country._


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Just as you think that the Sam remo is valid for Israel when it was not yet reborn. Or that the Geneva conventions apply to Palestine when they have never signed them.
> ...



No law has negated the San Remo Mandate.  It is written in Law and cannot be changed.  I would urge people to watch this.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_WVm8SacS4]Howard Grief - Israels Legal Borders Under International Law - Part 1 of 3 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VV_HMfzVDc]Howard Grief - Israels Legal Borders Under International Law - Part 2 of 3 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWJb8qY5KZ8]Howard Grief - Israels Legal Borders Under International Law - Part 3 of 3 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Nothing negates the San Remo Mandate to give the land of Palestine to the Jews.  The countries that signed at the League of Nations in 1922 have an *OBLIGATION* to encourage Jewish settlement in the land of Palestine, later of course to be known as the land of Israel.



So you agree that Israel is bound by the San Remo Conference, which makes Jewish settlement in Palestine and the creation of a Jewish homeland conditional upon the full respect and protection of non-Jewish civil rights in Palestine?

By the way, there is no San Remo "mandate".  It is merely a set of resolutions.

The governing mandate is the Mandate for Palestine.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Just as you think that the Sam remo is valid for Israel when it was not yet reborn. Or that the Geneva conventions apply to Palestine when they have never signed them.



Please take this up with Sweet Caroline as she is the one saying San Remo is still in affect.

 [MENTION=35705]Phoenall[/MENTION]


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing negates the San Remo Mandate to give the land of Palestine to the Jews.  The countries that signed at the League of Nations in 1922 have an *OBLIGATION* to encourage Jewish settlement in the land of Palestine, later of course to be known as the land of Israel.
> ...



Of course it is.  Jews' rights are protected.  Countries cannot sign a country over to a people and then divide it up again if it has been ratified by the League of Nations and protected by the United Nations.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Of course it is.  Jews' rights are protected.  Countries cannot sign a country over to a people and then divide it up again if it has been ratified by the League of Nations and protected by the United Nations.



So the rights of Jews are protected but the rights of non-Jews are voided?

That's very interesting.  I wonder how this view affects public opinion about Israel.


----------



## montelatici (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Total bullshit.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Its very interesting when Israelis argue that 80 year old laws are still valid when they go ahead and pick and choose which parts of same laws they consider valid and which parts they will ignore.

It is such attitudes that make people around the world dislike Israel.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Its very interesting when Israelis argue that 80 year old laws are still valid when they go ahead and pick and choose which parts of same laws they consider valid and which parts they will ignore.
> 
> It is such attitudes that make people around the world dislike Israel.



Done and dusted.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Phoenall, Victory67,  _et al,_
> 
> This is not a slam-dunk.  There is a general consensus here.
> 
> ...





 I stand corrected and will cease making these assumptions.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > The Geneva conventions do not apply as Palestine is not bound by them
> ...






 With mitigating circumstances


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> * And it was more like 5,000 Palestinians forcibly removed by the jews.*
> 
> One wonders if it is brainwashing or just pathological lying.  Not even the Israeli government spokesman would make such a ridiculous claim






 Read this for the real facts

http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/8/refugees.pdf


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> With mitigating circumstances



Where does the 4th GC say that nations can pick and choose which parts of the treaty they will abide by based on daily circumstances?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Show me otherwise and I will show you a NAZI
> ...






 Shows how much you know as I am not even a Jew, never mind an Israeli. I was like you at one time and hated the Jews until I saw the aftermath of an Islamic terrorist bomb. From that day on I researched all the evidence and dispelled that which was from hate sites. Your words are exactly what I see on the NAZI hate sites, and I am just waiting for you to take the next step and change Israel and Jew to Zionism and Zionist.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Done and dusted.



Why do you think its fair to respect the rights of Jews listed in the San Remo Conference but ignore the rights of non-Jews in same?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



The land was given to the Jews in biblical history and the San Remo Mandate.  Don't blame me.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shows how much you know as I am not even a Jew, never mind an Israeli. I was like you at one time and hated the Jews until I saw the aftermath of an Islamic terrorist bomb. From that day on I researched all the evidence and dispelled that which was from hate sites. Your words are exactly what I see on the NAZI hate sites, and I am just waiting for you to take the next step and change Israel and Jew to Zionism and Zionist.



I do not hate Jews.  It is very sad that rather than discussing the issue all you can do is falsely accuse people of hating Jews.   This is partially why people around the world don't support Israel.

Please return to talking about the international laws that Israel ignores.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> The land was given to the Jews in biblical history and the San Remo Mandate.  Don't blame me.



The Bible is 3,000 year old fantasy and has no relevence in a discussion about international laws.

There is no San Remo "mandate".  It was merely a conference with resolutions.

Your acknowledging of the rights of Jews listed at San Remo but your ignoring of the rights of non-Jews listed at San Remo, renders your argument pretty dead.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Done and dusted.
> ...



Non Jews have rights in Israel.  They work together, ride public transport together, shop together, are treated in clinics and wards together.  There are Muslim and Christians in the Israeli military, there are Muslims in the Law Courts, Muslim and Christian members of the Knesset, surgeons in hospitals, need I go on?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Non Jews have rights in Israel.  They work together, ride public transport together, shop together, are treated in clinics and wards together.  There are Muslim and Christians in the Israeli military, there are Muslims in the Law Courts, Muslim and Christian members of the Knesset, surgeons in hospitals, need I go on?



Israel has consistently and routinely been violating the civil rights of non-Jews in the West Bank since 1967.

This violates the protections set forth in the San Remo Conference.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Again you confuse the Mandate for Palestine with the San Remo Mandate.  Are you a child?  Do you not understand they are two different things entirely.
> ...






Which was breached by the combined arab armies when they invaded Israel. They evicted the Jews from the rest of the M.E and started to murder them as they fled to Israel. The Jews begged the non Jewish communities to stay and be part of Israel, but they refused and turned against the Jews.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > The land was given to the Jews in biblical history and the San Remo Mandate.  Don't blame me.
> ...



Now I am sure you are a child.  A San Remo Mandate = a conference with legally binding and signed by the parties concerned resolutions.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing negates the San Remo Mandate to give the land of Palestine to the Jews.  The countries that signed at the League of Nations in 1922 have an *OBLIGATION* to encourage Jewish settlement in the land of Palestine, later of course to be known as the land of Israel.
> ...





 Those conditions also hinge on the non Jews agreeing to the same thing in regard to the Jews. Now who was it breached these resolutions in 1948 when they invaded Israel ?


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Non Jews have rights in Israel.  They work together, ride public transport together, shop together, are treated in clinics and wards together.  There are Muslim and Christians in the Israeli military, there are Muslims in the Law Courts, Muslim and Christian members of the Knesset, surgeons in hospitals, need I go on?
> ...



The West Bank belonged to the Jews according to the San Remo Conference.  All roads lead back to then, ok?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Just as you think that the Sam remo is valid for Israel when it was not yet reborn. Or that the Geneva conventions apply to Palestine when they have never signed them.
> ...






 I am taking it up with you after your false claim.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> The West Bank belonged to the Jews according to the San Remo Conference.  All roads lead back to then, ok?



The San Remo Conference never says that all of Palestine will become the Jewish homeland.

But the San Remo Conference does clearly demand full protection for non-Jewish rights in Palestine.  Not only do you ignore these rights but you actually refuse to even acknowledge such language exists.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



You're not Jewish?
Nobody's perfect.
Except William Shatner.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



Ancient history!

By the way, who gets to define "ancient history"?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Of course it is.  Jews' rights are protected.  Countries cannot sign a country over to a people and then divide it up again if it has been ratified by the League of Nations and protected by the United Nations.
> ...






Depends on which side of the fence you are on. Don't you try and void the Jews rights when you make false claims . All parties rights should be protected, but while the muslims have it as a religious command to KILL THE JEWS then the Jews will defend themselves.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 10, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...






 because it destroys your POV ?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Why should the world respect the rights of Jews to settle all of Palestine set forth in San Remo, when the Israelis ignore the rights of non-Jews in Palestine set forth in San Remo?

They cannot have their cake and eat it too.  Either all rights are too be respected or none will be respected.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Why should the world respect the rights of Jews to settle all of Palestine set forth in San Remo, when the Israelis ignore the rights of non-Jews in Palestine set forth in San Remo?
> 
> They cannot have their cake and eat it too.  Either all rights are too be respected or none will be respected.



Fine...nobody's rights are respected.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Depends on which side of the fence you are on. Don't you try and void the Jews rights when you make false claims . All parties rights should be protected, but while the muslims have it as a religious command to KILL THE JEWS then the Jews will defend themselves.



The world is under no obligation to respect Jews' rights set forth in San Remo, if Israelis will ignore non-Jewish rights set forth in the same Conference.

Either all rights are to be respected or none shall be respected.


----------



## Coyote (Feb 10, 2014)

*Thread lightly cleaned of violative posts - just a reminder folks, IP is under Zone 2 rules:*

*Each post must contain content relevant to the thread subject, in addition to any flame. No trolling. No hit and run flaming
*


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Why should the world respect the rights of Jews to settle all of Palestine set forth in San Remo, when the Israelis ignore the rights of non-Jews in Palestine set forth in San Remo?
> ...


And if that is true, then _this_ is what will decide the matter...








Force of arms...

Anybody wanna bet how that'll turn out?


----------



## freedombecki (Feb 10, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Can you be specific as to the facilities confiscated and whether or not those facilities were being used for potential military type operations?
> ...



The United Nations not only allows a nation that has been attacked to destroy the attacking mechanism, but it blames those who hide behind innocent children for their deaths if they were using them as human shields. Israel has shot back, but with precision. That occasionally hits a human shield used callously by the original attacker, so the original attacker is given full responsibility for doing such a disgusting thing.

 Israel always takes just exactly what is dished out and throws it back at the attacker with precision hits to take out weaponry foolishly used against the Israelis.

 Surely even you knew that, Billo.


----------



## freedombecki (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Why should the world respect the rights of Jews to settle all of Palestine set forth in San Remo, when the Israelis ignore the rights of non-Jews in Palestine set forth in San Remo?
> 
> They cannot have their cake and eat it too. Either all rights are too be respected or none will be respected.


The "Palestinians" sent their Mufti of Jerusalem to Germany to meet with the Fuhrer in the late 30s. They made the bargain that turned them into devils: first, they would wipe out all the Jews in Europe, and when that was accomplished, Hitler was to help them wipe out all the Jews in Israel for once and for all.

 It didn't work out well for them.

 They're just sore losers, and all those Muslims who did not incorporate the "Palestinians" into other Muslim countries? They did the cheap thing: they engaged in a war on Israel by proxy in order to keep Hitler's hate alive.

 That hasn't worked out very well for them either.

 The Mufti of Jerusalem and Hitler: 

Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini

The Mufti and the Führer | Jewish Virtual Library


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 10, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet_Caroline said:
> ...



No, it's because this clown is full of crap.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

freedombecki said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Why should the world respect the rights of Jews to settle all of Palestine set forth in San Remo, when the Israelis ignore the rights of non-Jews in Palestine set forth in San Remo?
> ...



Hitler and the Mufti met for 15 minutes... That one photo is the only time they were together.

Why do you think Palestinians would want to leave their ancestral homes?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

freedombecki said:


> The "Palestinians" sent their Mufti of Jerusalem to Germany to meet with the Fuhrer in the late 30s. They made the bargain that turned them into devils: first, they would wipe out all the Jews in Europe, and when that was accomplished, Hitler was to help them wipe out all the Jews in Israel for once and for all.
> 
> It didn't work out well for them.



The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was appointed by the British High Commissioner of Palestine, Herbert Samuel.  Herbert Samuel had a religious Jewish upbringing.  

Not that any of this is related to the issue of Israel violating international laws.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Doesn't matter who the Grand Mufti was vetted by...

What signifies is what he did with his power after being installed...


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Doesn't matter who the Grand Mufti was vetted by...
> 
> What signifies is what he did with his power after being installed...



He was trying to stop Jewish immigration.. The population had doubled in less than 15 years with European Jews.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Doesn't matter who the Grand Mufti was vetted by...
> 
> What signifies is what he did with his power after being installed...



You wouldn't say that if he was chosen by the Arabs.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't matter who the Grand Mufti was vetted by...
> ...


You have no idea what I would say.

But I will tell you.

Who better to install a Grand Poobah (of a mostly religious nature) than his co-religionists?

I don't much care if he was vetted by the Brits or the Arabs or the Jews or the Bolivians...

It's what he did WITH that power, once installed, that signifies.

And, in this case, the shmuck played footsie with Adolf Hitler and the Nazis and their SS.

_That_ is where discussion needs to remain focused, when contemplating that miscreant.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 10, 2014)

What would happen to Israel if they were brought before The Hague for their violations of international law?


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 10, 2014)

Depends upon the court, and its competency (jurisdictional right to hear the case) and the particulars of the charges, of course.

Perhaps somebody should file some, and find out.

Or has that been tried before?


----------



## freedombecki (Feb 10, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...


Are you speaking of those who murdered and deported the Israelis from their ancestral homes throughout history?

The Mufti got 6 million Jews killed based on whacko justice. It wasn't enough that his country killed and ejected Israelis from their own homes in eras past and got them sent to Europe, he wanted a scorched earth and sent 340,000 homicidal maniacs to Germany to see to it they were exterminated for once and for all, then the 15-minute agreement prize he walked out with was that Hitler would help him after Europe was ethnically cleansed of Jews to help him ethnicly cleanse them out of Israel.

How'd that work out for him and his bloody murderers of six million Jews in WWII?


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 10, 2014)

freedombecki said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > freedombecki said:
> ...



You are a loon.. Read some history.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 11, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






 And destroys your POV


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 11, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...






 The promise of a better life. money, safety, money, work, money.    Any other reasons you can think of ?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 11, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't matter who the Grand Mufti was vetted by...
> ...






 So what about the arab muslims that contributed more to the population increase. If ir was as you claim above then the muslims would have been outnumbered by Jews, and that was never the case was it ?


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 11, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



But the Syrian province of Palestine, about one hundred and fifty miles long and fifty miles broad, largely mountainous and sterile, contains at present a population of more than 650,000, divided as follows: Mohammedan Arabs, 515,000; Jews, 63,000; Christian Arabs, 62,000; nomadic Bedouins, 50,000; unclassified, 5000. Of these the Mohammedans and Christians are to a man bitterly opposed to any Zionist claims, whether made by would-be rulers or by settlers. 

It may not be generally known, but a goodly number of the Jewish dwellers in the land are not anxious to see a large immigration into the country. This is partly due to the fear that the result of such immigration would be an overcrowding of the industrial and agricultural market; but a number of the more respectable older settlers have been disgusted by the recent arrivals in Palestine of their coreligionists, unhappy individuals from Russia and Roumania brought in under the auspices of the Zionist Commission from the cities of Southeastern Europe, and neither able nor willing to work at agriculture or fruit-farming.



The old colonists believe that what is required to help the country is the immigration of a moderate number of persons, who should be in possession of some capital to invest in agriculture, or have technical knowledge of farming; not, as proposed by the Zionist Commission, an unlimited immigration of poor and ignorant people from the cities of Europe, who, if they are unable to make a living in Western cities, would most certainly starve in an Eastern agricultural country. 

The presence in Palestine of such agricultural experts as the late Mr. Aaronsohn, and Mr. Moses Levine of the Jewish Farm at Ben Shamer, near Ludd, both American Jews of great talent, is of the greatest advantage to the country, and is generally acknowledged so to be by all classes of the population. The arrival of more such colonists would be welcome to all but the whole population will resist the Zionist Commission's plan of wholesale immigration of Jews into Palestine at the rate of one hundred thousand a year, until a total of three millions has been reached, which number they claim the country can support if cultivated to its utmost.



Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> What would happen to Israel if they were brought before The Hague for their violations of international law?






 NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH, NIET as there is no evidence of them violating International Law. If there was then the Hague would have already issued warrants for the crimes. Everything they have done has been within the framework of the Geneva conventions and the UN resolutions. Unless you can produce evidence to the contrary that the UN is not aware of.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 11, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Depends upon the court, and its competency (jurisdictional right to hear the case) and the particulars of the charges, of course.
> 
> Perhaps somebody should file some, and find out.
> 
> Or has that been tried before?






Yes it has and the charges were thrown out as there was no evidence of any wrongdoing. So they issued a private summons on the unspecified charge of war crimes against an Israeli officer that was never served as he never set foot in the nation the private summons was issued. We have since changed the law to stop the muslims from doing this again and refused to pay the legal aid bill


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 11, 2014)

Shaarona said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Shaarona said:
> ...






 hardly an unbiased source of information is it, and it does not answer the question of what part arab migration played in the population increase.  Wasn't it the case right through the 20C that arab muslim population of Palestine always stayed at least double that of the Jewish and Christian populations combined.  Detailed in the many census counts taken over a 150 year period and is still the same today.


----------



## Shaarona (Feb 11, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Shaarona said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



600,000 European Jews migrated to Palestine between 1920 and 1935.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Yep.
> 
> Life isn't always fair.
> 
> ...



Its interesting that I am accused of being a Nazi and an anti-Semite simply for criticizing Israel and accusing them of violating international law, meanwhile the same people ignore your racist call for ethnic cleansing.  Why do you think that is?

 [MENTION=44172]Sweet_Caroline[/MENTION]    

 [MENTION=35705]Phoenall[/MENTION]


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep.
> ...



There is no need to 'mention' me in every thread as I do subscribe and reply to all of them.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> There is no need to 'mention' me in every thread as I do subscribe and reply to all of them.



I would like for you to respond to my question.

Why do you accuse me of anti-Semitism while ignoring racist calls for ethnic cleansing in the West Bank?   Why do you complain about my ignoring of crimes by Arabs in Syria, Egypt, and Iraq when you refuse to condemn racism by your own side?

Why is my criticism of Israel's violation of international law bad while others calling for international law to be violated acceptable to you?


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Yep.
> ...


It's not 'racist' ethnic cleansing.

It's 'religious' cleansing.

It's 'hostile population' cleansing.

Such 'cleansing' can be done one of two ways...

1. slaughter the subject population

2. relocate the subject population

I suspect that if the Israelis DO end-up evicting and expelling their embedded 'hostile population', that they will not slaughter (_it's not in their nature, and it would cause other problems, besides_) but that they will resort to Population Transfer, instead...

Much akin to what the Czechs and Russians did in 1945 with the ethnic Germans in the Sudentenland.

Much akin to what the Poles and Russians did in 1945 with the ethnic Germans in East Prussia.

Much akin to what the Indians did to the Muslims living in India, in 1947.

Much akin to what the Pakistanis did to the Hindus living in Pakistan, in 1947.

Much akin to what the Euro-Americans and the United States did to the Native Americans in the period 1492 - 1900 or so.

And, I'm sure, other large-scale adn notable Population Transfers in modern times, that escape me at the moment.

Populations get in the way of other populations all the time or get on their nerves and are expelled.

Just ask any of the million or so Jews expelled from Muslim-Arab countries in the 1948-1975 timeframe.

Shit happens.

Cheer up.

If Israel DOES end-up evicting and expelling the West Bankers and/or Gazans, and then putting Israeli Jews on their old land to fill the vacuum, at least the 'victims' will still be alive, and resettled, and probably paid-off with something to compensate them, in whole or in part.

As to why some of our colleagues - who are beginning to believe that you are a Nazi or anti-semitic type - don't speak up, you'll have to ask them...

Several possibilities come to mind...

1. the idea is too radical or too loony-tunes or too brutal for some

2. the idea seems to unrealistic or too unlikely to materialize, to some

3. the idea will trigger major relationship problems for Israel, for some time afterwards, and they'd rather not go there until they're convinced it's absolutely necessary

4. some still believe that a peaceful solution may still be possible after 66 years of trying

5. some know it's the only way to cut the Gordian Knot now but can't face the prospect

6. some would rather stay out of it for the sake of their online relationships

7. some suspect that that is what is going to unfold but would rather not make too much of it in advance until the time draws nearer

8. I'm sufficiently valuable to some as a supporter of Israel that they're willing to overlook a 'radical idea' outburst from time to time, so long as it doesn't involve slaughter

9. they really DO think you're a Nazi or anti-semite

10. they're reasonably confident that I'm neither

...and, I'm sure, a dozen other possibilities that I've missed.

Like I said, they can speak for themselves.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > There is no need to 'mention' me in every thread as I do subscribe and reply to all of them.
> ...



Have I complained about you ignoring crimes in Syria etc.  No, I don't think so. 

You cite international law that does not apply in Israel's case.  To me there is no difference between anti-semitism and someone who lies about Israel.  It is evident to all.  Are you one of those people who say I have nothing against Jews, it is Israel's policies I am against.  Let me tell you sunshine, there is no difference between the two and we have seen your ilk on these forums before.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> It's not 'racist' ethnic cleansing.
> 
> It's 'religious' cleansing.
> 
> It's 'hostile population' cleansing.



Such goals are racist but your fellow Israelis will not dare to question them because when it comes to criticising the crimes and racist goals of Israelis, they have a LAPD-like wall of silence. They believe that Israelis are superior and cannot be accused of racism.  They believe that it is anti-Semitic to accuse Israelis of racism, even when an Israeli calls for ethnic cleansing.  It is this attitude that drives Israel to violate international law.

When you think you are above the law, the law doesn't matter.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 11, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



Wow! Love it; but it may be too REAL for some.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

Sweet_Caroline said:


> Have I complained about you ignoring crimes in Syria etc.  No, I don't think so.
> 
> You cite international law that does not apply in Israel's case.  To me there is no difference between anti-semitism and someone who lies about Israel.  It is evident to all.  Are you one of those people who say I have nothing against Jews, it is Israel's policies I am against.  Let me tell you sunshine, there is no difference between the two and we have seen your ilk on these forums before.



Your ally [MENTION=35705]Phoenall[/MENTION] believes the 4th Geneva Conventions does apply to the West Bank.  As does [MENTION=25033]RoccoR[/MENTION]

I have yet to lie about Israel.  You and others simply believe that criticism of Israel=Nazi anti-Semitism.

Is is this attitude that drives Israel to violate international law.  They think they are above the law.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > It's not 'racist' ethnic cleansing.
> ...



I think you've been watching 60 Minutes a bit much.
No other nation goes out of it's way to not kill or bad mouth the enemy as Israel does.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...



You must be joking.  Anti-Palestine propaganda is all over the MSM.  We in the USA are spoonfed it on an almost daily basis


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



That is why the support for Israel is so high in the US.

The people have been misled.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> That is why the support for Israel is so high in the US.
> 
> The people have been misled.



To our credit we are also less anti-Semitic than Europe.  But the flip side of that is a bit of guilt over the Holocaust than the USA certainly does not deserve.  Add that with Evangelical Apocolyptic love for Israel and you have a society that is somewhat blind to Israel's misdeeds.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 11, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


The Jews have better marketing and PR folk than you guys... always have... always will.

But I wouldn't read too much into that.

Christians tend to like Jews better than Muslims, as a general rule; there's a bond or sorts that permeates early Christian history and its literary outputs.

In-between phases of persecution of the Jews on European soil, the Euro-Christians have traditionally looked more favorably upon Jews than Muslims.

Something to do with a little misunderstanding called the Forcible Expansion of Islam into Christian lands.

Something to do with a little misunderstanding called The Crusades.

Something to do with a little misunderstanding called taking over modern-day Turkey and driving out the Greeks and sacking Constantinople and killnig the last vestiges of the Roman (Byzantine) Empire.

And, of course, in recent times...

Something to do with little misunderstandings like 9-11 and the London Tube Bombings...

And, of course, and generally speaking, the United States is a secularized Christian country; boasting far more adherents to that belief-system than any other; steeped in the traditions and customs and laws and philosophy of Europe.

So, even with a long-standing and well-observed separation of church and state, and the presence of sizable numbers of practitioners of other faiths, or none at all..

You're still dealing with a stacked deck on this side of The Pond... stacked in favor of the Jews and Israel...

Americans don't need the prodding of a biased news media industry in order to take sides with Israel...

For most Americans, it just comes naturally...

For their own diverse collection of good and true reasons...

Don't delude yourself that American partiality towards Israel is a result of the MSM...

'Cause it just ain't true, fellas...


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> The Jews have better marketing and PR folk than you guys... always have... always will.
> 
> But I wouldn't read too much into that.
> 
> ...



If most Americans were sat down and given the simple and cold hard facts about Israel they would likely be a lot less biased towards them.

Would they hate Israel?  No.  But they certainly would see them in a whole different light.   A slightly darker one unfortunately.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > The Jews have better marketing and PR folk than you guys... always have... always will.
> ...



And there is a growing number of movements and organizations doing just that.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 11, 2014)

Looooonnnnngggg uphill climb on that one (_negating American bias towards Israel_) fellas... ya'll ought to hit the top of that hill within a hundred years or so... a wee bit too late to help, given the way things are going.


----------



## toastman (Feb 11, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Such a load of crap. And I mean MASSIVE LOAD. You always find excuses whenever someone, or in this case a whole country. has positive views about Israel lol !

Why do you think you are smarter than everyone ?


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

toastman said:


> Such a load of crap. And I mean MASSIVE LOAD. You always find excuses whenever someone, or in this case a whole country. has positive views about Israel lol !
> 
> Why do you think you are smarter than everyone ?



Why does America think they are smarter than everyone else?


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 11, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

This is nonsense.



P F Tinmore said:


> That is why the support for Israel is so high in the US.
> 
> The people have been misled.


*(COMMENT)*

The facts are clear.  And certainly the history shows that while no active player in this drama, now nearly a century in the making, has acted perfectly (the human factor), the moral fiber of the Hostile Arab Palestinian, that opened war, used terrorism, and constantly thwarted the prospects for peace, is anything if not a danger to regional security and the principle obstacle to the development of region prosperity.

Yes, no player has been perfect in their actions, yet none have been so detrimental by many factors of 10 than that of the Palestinians.  They must recreate a history that save face and shows themselves to be the honorable victim in order to sustain momentum.  But no nation, that bases it entire struggle and war-like character on the use of terrorism by any means, can claim even the foothills of honor and integrity as a culture and people.

No matter what any other player has done, no people can justify in any way, their actions, exhibit themselves as the victim, or lay claim the moral high ground that has made this pledge in public - then opened hostilities.



			
				The Subsequent communication of 6 February to the Secretary-General from the representative of the Arab Higher Committee set forth the following conclusions of the Arab Higher Committee Delegation: said:
			
		

> The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition.
> 
> *&#8220;The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out &#8211; man women and child."*​



Yes, such a people have lost their honesty, integrity, good character and morale fortitude, and replaced it with the call for Jihad.  And who in the world supports jihad and the armed struggle of the fedayeen?



UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon&#8217 said:


> Nothing can justify terrorism &#8212; ever.  No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts.




Why the support for Israel is so high in the US.

No matter how many mistakes the State of Israel has made, and will make, there is no greater evil in the world today, than the Fundamentalist call for Jihad and Armed Struggle; by a people who believe they have an inherent right to reject all solutions which are substitutes for the total liberation of the former territory under the Mandate of Palestine and rejects all proposals aimed at the a peaceful settlement.  They are a people that believe the 1947 Partition Plan, and the establishment of the State of Israel are entirely illegal - and - there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.  They are a people that see Jihad as the individual duty of every Moslem.



			
				Senior Hamas Official: The Resistance Is Entitled To Attack Israel&#8217;s Embassies said:
			
		

> "The Palestinian resistance may find at a certain stage that the path of martyrdom operations is more effective, and it must not rule out the use of any method that can inflict pain on the enemy and deter it. Friendly nations and countries must support the action of the resistance and must condemn the occupation. The resistance may find itself at a certain stage forced to damage the interests of the [Israeli] occupation's allies, and the parties that provide it with funds, arms, and media support. It is the resistance that will decide when to adopt this path, and how, when, and where."



If the Hostile Arab Palestinian People want to threaten the People of the United States, just because we want to help preserve the Jewish State and their culture --- WELL! go ahead.  But don't turn around with tears in your eyes and ask for sympathy.  In the US, we don't play that game.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## montelatici (Feb 11, 2014)

" They are a people that believe the partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal"

And they would absolutely correct.  It went against the primary condition placed on the Mandatory, that  "that the rights and position of other sections of the population (non Jews) are not prejudiced" Article 6 of the Mandate.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> " They are a people that believe the partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal"
> 
> And they would absolutely correct.  It went against the primary condition placed on the Mandatory, that  "that the rights and position of other sections of the population (non Jews) are not prejudiced" Article 6 of the Mandate.



181 gave the Arabs their own state in Palestine.


----------



## montelatici (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > " They are a people that believe the partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal"
> ...



It prejudiced the rights of the non-Jews in what is now Israel, who were subsequently ethnically cleansed.  Illegal.


----------



## toastman (Feb 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> " They are a people that believe the partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal"
> 
> And they would absolutely correct.  It went against the primary condition placed on the Mandatory, that  "that the rights and position of other sections of the population (non Jews) are not prejudiced" Article 6 of the Mandate.



False, Israels declaration of independence was perfectly legal. For fucks sake, even the U.N recognized and approved of them. 


* Easy Guide to International Humanitarian Law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory*

"After the 1948 war, Israel was established on a more extensive territory than recommended in the partition plan.* By entering into the Armistice Agreement with Egypt in 1949, Israel, demonstrated a sufficient level of stable and effective government of the territory to be recognised as a state by other states and the UN. Israel was effectively and lawfully established as a state, on the armistice territory, by secession from the Mandate of Palestine.* A state for the Palestinians living in the Mandate of Palestine was never created and this unrealised goal still constitutes one of the core issues of the conflict."

http://www.diakonia.se/Documents/Di...ia-position-paper-on-Israel-and-Palestine.pdf


----------



## montelatici (Feb 11, 2014)

The Mandatory did not insure that the rights of the non-Jews were not prejudiced.  They were prejudiced de facto regardless of what the UN did. ILLEGAL.


----------



## MHunterB (Feb 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



Over 20% of citizens in Israel are non-Jews - as opposed to just under a million people ethnically cleansed from Arab League nations after Partition *because they were Jews*  

Your concern appears entirely one-sided.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

MHunterB said:


> Over 20% of citizens in Israel are non-Jews - as opposed to just under a million people ethnically cleansed from Arab League nations after Partition *because they were Jews*
> 
> Your concern appears entirely one-sided.



Israel used to have 1.2 million Arabs.  This was reduced to 200,000 by the end of the 1948 War.  They were kicked out by the Israeli armies and terror groups.


----------



## montelatici (Feb 11, 2014)

MHunterB said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



This thread is about Israel and Palestine.  The dispossessed non-Jews of Palestine don't really give a flying ____ about what happened in Morocco. They had nothing to do with it. Just as they did not want to be punished because of what the Germans did to the Jews, the non-Jewish Palestinians had nothing to do with it.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Such a load of crap. And I mean MASSIVE LOAD. You always find excuses whenever someone, or in this case a whole country. has positive views about Israel lol !
> ...


America does not think they are smarter than everyone else.

Merely more powerful than most or all.

Why do you deprecate your own country like that?

Unless, of course, you're not actually an American - literally, or metaphorically.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 11, 2014)

montelatici,

You say that as if you actually know what that means.



montelatici said:


> The Mandatory did not insure that the rights of the non-Jews were not prejudiced.  They were prejudiced de facto regardless of what the UN did. ILLEGAL.


*(COMMENT)*

And I think you left out some serious verbage>

"it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,"​

What are civil rights?
basic rights: rights that all citizens of a society are supposed to have, e.g. the right to vote or to receive fair treatment from the law.

What are religious rights?
freedom of an individual or community, in public or private, to manifest religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship, and observance;


What is the grievance?  It certainly cannot be the right to self-determination because under Israeli Occupation the PLO was able to Declare Independence "pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947."  

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> America does not think they are smarter than everyone else.
> 
> Merely more powerful than most or all.



So you're saying the USA simply throws its mindless weight around?


----------



## montelatici (Feb 11, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,
> 
> You say that as if you actually know what that means.
> 
> ...



One civil right is the right to not to be ethnically cleansed.  What nonsense.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > Over 20% of citizens in Israel are non-Jews - as opposed to just under a million people ethnically cleansed from Arab League nations after Partition *because they were Jews*
> ...


More like they participated in the _Grand Skeddadle of 1948_.

_Excerpt from a 1948 Tel-Aviv newspaper ad..._

"For Sale:

10,000 Palestinian militia rifles.

Bargain-basement priced to go.

Prime condition.

Never fired, and only dropped once."​


----------



## toastman (Feb 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici,
> ...



LOL You couldn't even answer his questions. 

Big fail for you, btw


----------



## P F Tinmore (Feb 11, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> 
> This is nonsense.
> 
> ...





> *This is nonsense.*



Indeed it is.

But you posted it anyway.


----------



## montelatici (Feb 11, 2014)

toastman said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > RoccoR said:
> ...



Actually, it is a big fail for you.  The question was answered concisely.  That's why there is no response.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 11, 2014)

montelatici,  _et al,_

The removal of fifth columnist that made the open threat of genocide is not "ethnic cleansing."



montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

In every war there is a refugee problem.  

If the hostile Arab Palestinian had not initiated open war, there would have been no refugee problem.  But the removal of a hostile population that has given a solemn oath to kill ever jew, man women and child, is a prudent security measure.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 11, 2014)

P F Tinmore,  _et al,_

You are exceptional with the unresponsive one-liners.



P F Tinmore said:


> > *This is nonsense.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

But can you actually address the salient points?

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## toastman (Feb 11, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore,  _et al,_
> ...



Excellent rebuttal to Roccos post !   

Specially with all the links you provided !! Great Job !!!!!


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



FoxNews, FoxNews and MAYBE FoxNews.


----------



## montelatici (Feb 11, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> The removal of fifth columnist that made the open threat of genocide is not "ethnic cleansing."
> 
> ...



The Christians and Muslims of Palestine initiated nothing, they had no military. The Jews, with the Israeli radio broadcasts threatening to kill all non-Jews, men, women and children,  caused the most of the Christians and Muslims to flee. You have the usual brainwashed alternate history. Sorry, you are a charlatan.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 11, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



No idiot, it's because travel is so darned easy and relatively inexpensive and people actually VISIT Israel and see that YOUR propaganda is complete bullshit.


----------



## MHunterB (Feb 11, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...



I sincerely hope that you were not actually elected to speak for the 'dispossessed non-Jews of "Palestine" :  if you were, it means they care about nobody but themselves.

Hitler had nothing to do with the ethnic cleansing committed by the Arab League nations - and yes, that ethnic cleansing IS a factor in the search for justice in the ME.  Ignoring it cannot bring about justice.

Again, you appear to be arguing that the Mandate itself was 'illegal' - if you would argue so, then referring to UN #181, etc is hypocritical.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > Over 20% of citizens in Israel are non-Jews - as opposed to just under a million people ethnically cleansed from Arab League nations after Partition *because they were Jews*
> ...



Israel wanted to raise the IQ.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 11, 2014)

Indeependent,  _et al,_

Speaking of the News, and relative to Posting #603 on thread  "Israel violates international law," I saw an interesting article.



Indeependent said:


> FoxNews, FoxNews and MAYBE FoxNews.


*(COMMENT)*

It appears that the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) are suggesting that, if they don't get what they want (whatever that may be), they are exercising their right to self-determination in favor of another conflict; which is historically the first option of the HoAP.





			
				Palestinian Official Says &#8216;Armed Resistance&#8217; an Option If Peace Talks Fail said:
			
		

> The Palestinian official who headed Yasser Arafat&#8217;s security force at the start of the Second Intifada is warning that armed conflict may well follow the failure of current peace talks with Israel.
> 
> &#8220;They should expect a reaction,&#8221; Jibril Rajoub tells TIME in an interview. &#8220;We have to ring the bell. Uncle Sam should understand that there is a new fascistic doctrine among the Israelis, and this is a real threat to their interests in the Middle East, and even in the whole world.&#8221;
> 
> ...



As I said, "Yes, such a people have lost their honesty, integrity, good character and morale fortitude, and replaced it with the call for Jihad."

It seems they prove it everyday - more and more.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 11, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Israel wanted to raise the IQ.



How come its ok for Israelis to make racist statements like this, but if someone said the reason the Arabs kicked out 750,000 Jews is because they wanted to improve the smell, they would be labeled a bigot?

It is just this kind of racist hypocrisy that leads Israel to violate international law.  They feel they are above the law while everyone else is below them and bound by a different moral code.


----------



## RoccoR (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67,  _et al,_

You're ranting about an event that is hypothetical (hasn't happened).



Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Israel wanted to raise the IQ.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

You guys are perpetual victims.  Very thin skinned and whiny about everything.  Stick to the point.

You could have asked in response, how many IQ Point did the average go up?  That would have been on topic.

OK, I apologize.  I just couldn't pass it up.  We all have to laugh at ourselves every now and then.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 11, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Israel wanted to raise the IQ.
> ...



Because it wouldn't be true.
Jews are NOT above the law and we are seemingly bound by a much higher moral code than the followers of Islam.
For example...We don't blow people up in Spain because we're pissed off at people in Gaza.
The Arabs should NOT have fled in 1948.
They fled and lost their squatting rights.

Tell me, why does Jordan block them from entering?
Oh, I forgot...Fuck Israel!


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 12, 2014)

freedombecki said:


> The United Nations not only allows a nation that has been attacked to destroy the attacking mechanism,


The United Nation does not consider a population under the occupation of a foreign force, _*"the attacker".*_

In addition, an occupational force cannot claim self defense.




freedombecki said:


> but it blames those who hide behind innocent children for their deaths if they were using them as human shields. Israel has shot back, but with precision. That occasionally hits a human shield used callously by the original attacker, so the original attacker is given full responsibility for doing such a disgusting thing.
> 
> Israel always takes just exactly what is dished out and throws it back at the attacker with precision hits to take out weaponry foolishly used against the Israelis.
> 
> Surely even you knew that, Billo.


Then how do you explain the IDF's use of_* "johnny's"?*_


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...







 Never seen any, but I have seen plenty of ANTI JEWISH, ANTI ISRAELI and ANTI SEMITIC propaganda all over the place. And the whole world is force fed this hatred and racism by the likes of you who are prepared to LIE to demonise the Jewish people.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...







Or they can see with their own eyes that the reality is the Palestinians are evil violent mass murdering scum. And that they have no intention of ever seeing peace, not even when Israel has been destroyed


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Sweet_Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Have I complained about you ignoring crimes in Syria etc.  No, I don't think so.
> ...





You LIE all the time when you claim that Israel being in compliance with the Geneva conventions is them breaching International Law. Even after reading the relevant sections yourself you still insist that they don't stand and your version does. You employ a two tier system than has the muslims allowed to murder children and use WMD's while Israel is not allowed to defend itself or its children from attack


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > That is why the support for Israel is so high in the US.
> ...







 Once again with your islamonazi LIES you are asked to prove your words and constantly refuse.

 So once again  Is Israel being an apartheid state within its own borders. ?

 Is Israel in full compliance with the full terms of the Geneva conventions, and if not which aspects are they breaching that has resulted in them being censured by the UNGC. Details required of both are compulsory as that word of an islamonazi stooge is as worthless as a 7 dollar bill.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > The Jews have better marketing and PR folk than you guys... always have... always will.
> ...







 Would that be the facts as you see them or the reality of the situation. When asked leading questions would you give answers that are not related to them, and would you use biased reports that are full of glaring errors. If you did then you would see that most Americans would start demanding the US take action against neo Nazis and Palestinians for your RACISM and JEW HATRED


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

P F Tinmore said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Kondor3 said:
> ...






That are having the wrong effect on Israel making them stronger and richer. Like the Sodastream movement that has increased sales, or the BDS which has been shown to be racist so has been hit with a legal ruling. It is only the neo Nazis and the islamonazis that are spouting the RACIST LIES and the decent people are turning against them. The 3rd intifada will end up like the other 2 as a wasted effort that only hurt the Palestinians at the end of the day. The muslims around the world were preaching the 3rd intifada 10 years ago, so you see how they know about these steps before they are put in place.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > Such a load of crap. And I mean MASSIVE LOAD. You always find excuses whenever someone, or in this case a whole country. has positive views about Israel lol !
> ...







They don't but they don't believe the NAZI LIES either, and can see for themselves the truth about the Palestinian conflict. The internet has changed peoples views on Israel and they see the reality that is Palestine firing rockets at Israeli children and are sickened by it. The only ones who aren't are the islamonazis and their mouthpieces in the west, and they no longer show their glee at the death of a child because it hurts their cause too much. The videos of Palestinians celebrating the deaths of Israeli civilians are widespread and shown openly, as are the photo's of cannibalism practised in the west bank


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> " They are a people that believe the partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal"
> 
> And they would absolutely correct.  It went against the primary condition placed on the Mandatory, that  "that the rights and position of other sections of the population (non Jews) are not prejudiced" Article 6 of the Mandate.





They weren't until the muslims invaded Israel and tried to wipe them out man, woman and child. So were did the muslims show that they were prepared to allow the Jews their rights and position. Because from were I stand they are to this day prejudicing the rights of the Israelis to self determination and a peaceful existence. The muslims that exist today as Israeli citizens do not want to lose their priveledged positions. 

The UN and the majority of nations declared that the establishment of the Israeli state was legal and that it would be recognised as such. It was the actions of the arabs that was deemed illegal and classed as foreign interferfence. Today this act would result in the Hague issuing arrest warrants for the heads of state of the 7 muslim nations involved for war crimes as detailed in the Geneva conventions


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> montelatici said:
> 
> 
> > " They are a people that believe the partition of Palestine in 1947, and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal"
> ...






Which they turned down don't forget, the evidence of their refusal to accept 181 has been posted many times. It was not a case of if the muslims or Jews refuse then the plan is shelved, it was if EITHER accept then they get to keep the land.

Now they want to turn the clock back and start all over again because they believe they are strong enough to beat Israel, delusional fools that they are.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






Who ethnically cleansed them and when did this take place?

Why are their arab muslims and Christians living in Israel as full citizens with all the privileges of the Jews.
Why do so many muslims want to become Istaeli citizens if they are ethnically cleansed.
The only right they don't have is the right to be conscripted into the IDF


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> The Mandatory did not insure that the rights of the non-Jews were not prejudiced.  They were prejudiced de facto regardless of what the UN did. ILLEGAL.







And who was it that prejudiced their rights, as the evidence shows that Israel offered all muslims and Christians the right to Israeli citizenship.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > Over 20% of citizens in Israel are non-Jews - as opposed to just under a million people ethnically cleansed from Arab League nations after Partition *because they were Jews*
> ...






There was not 1.2 million arabs in Israel pre 1948, as Israel did not exist. Also that is the figure for the whole of Palestine and they were told to leave by the arab commanders.

 Here is an unbiased source of evidence that show you to be an* ISLAMONAZI LIAR*

How many Muslims, Christians and Jews were living in Palestine before 1948? - Yahoo Answers

 In 1948, the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Most of them left in fear of being killed by their own Arab brothers as traitors. 

 The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is claimed to be around 630,000 (but where did they get this number?). Based on population census, the estimated number of Arabs who left Israel was around 460,000. They were ordered to leave by Arab leaders at the time.


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Or they can see with their own eyes that the reality is the Palestinians are evil violent mass murdering scum.


You've made their lives a living hell for the last 50 years, yet call them "evil" and "violent".

In Operation Cast Lead, over a 1000 Palestinian's were killed.  Do you know how many Israeli's were killed during that same period?  13.  So according to your logic, if you kill only 13 people...........wait, scratch that..............4 Israeli's were killed by friendly fire..........so according to your logic, if you kill 9 people, you're a mass murderer.  But if you kill over a 1000, you're not.

Your sense of right and wrong is pretty fucked up.




Phoenall said:


> And that they have no intention of ever seeing peace, not even when Israel has been destroyed


What kind of dumbass thing is that to say?

No one in the ME is even capable of destroying Israel, so why talk as though it's a possibility?


----------



## Billo_Really (Feb 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> There was not 1.2 million arabs in Israel pre 1948, as Israel did not exist. Also that is the figure for the whole of Palestine and they were told to leave by the arab commanders.


People who have been living in an  area for generations, don't just get up and leave because someone "asked" them to.

It's pretty fucking stupid to think people would believe non-sense like that.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...







*Over 20% of citizens in Israel are non-Jews*
Whats wrong didn't you like the truth, is that why you ignored it.  The fact that today 2, 017,000 citizens of Israel are non Jews. So were is your ethnic cleansing from Israel now. This means that very nearly 25% of Israel's citizens and muslim, Christian, Druze or atheist. Which by itself proves that you are another *ISLAMONAZI LIAR*


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici,
> ...






So who has ethnically cleansed anyone from their nations in the M.E since 1948. And show an unbiased link that details the facts as evidence.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> toastman said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici said:
> ...






Then show were Israel has ethnically cleansed non Jews from Israel ?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> montelatici,  _et al,_
> 
> The removal of fifth columnist that made the open threat of genocide is not "ethnic cleansing."
> 
> ...






Very much like America's actions during WW2 when many Japanese Americans were arrested and interred for the duration of hostilities


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 12, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > There was not 1.2 million arabs in Israel pre 1948, as Israel did not exist. Also that is the figure for the whole of Palestine and they were told to leave by the arab commanders.
> ...


So, you are disputing the idea that the political and military leaders of the Arab League's invading nations called upon the Palestinians to abandon their lands, to await their redemption by Arab League forces, after a League victory in 1948, and that many thousands of Palestinian Arabs complied with such calls?


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici,  _et al,_
> ...






*AND YOU ARE A BRAINWASHED ISLAMONAZI LIAR*
 Were is your evidence from an unbiased source to prove that the Jews were told to kill all the non Jews. Were is your proof of ethnic cleansing on a scale that would be impossible to achieve with such a small population


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Israel wanted to raise the IQ.
> ...





Actually it would be Israel kicking out the muslims to improve the smell, you can tell you have not been around muslims much.
And as everyone knows the muslims are kept semi literate so saying that the Jews wanted to lift the IQ is a valid argument.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > The United Nations not only allows a nation that has been attacked to destroy the attacking mechanism,
> ...







If you need to ask these stupid questions then you should not be given computer time at the centre


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Or they can see with their own eyes that the reality is the Palestinians are evil violent mass murdering scum.
> ...





 How have I made their lives hell for the last 50 years, it is of their own doing engaging in terrorism against my fellow Brits that has made their lives hell.

 Cast lead was in reprisal for 5 years of constant rocket attacks on defenceless children, not even you would last that long before you retaliated and shot all the punks attacking your home and family. The reason for so many deaths is that the Palestinians placed women and children in the line of fire as human shields. Read the Goldstone report, and his comments made afterwards.
 Your sense of right and wrong is completely missing as Israel took every precaution to minimise the casualties while the Palestinians evicted women and children from the shelter so they would be safe.

Can you not see the evidence for yourself, with Islamic civil war all over the M.E. Even the arabs have said they don't want a Palestinian nation because they are so evil and violent


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > There was not 1.2 million arabs in Israel pre 1948, as Israel did not exist. Also that is the figure for the whole of Palestine and they were told to leave by the arab commanders.
> ...






 Not when they are promised they will get the pick of the Jewish loot when the Jews had all been murdered. But read these for proof.

Myth and Fact: Did Arab Leaders Encourage Palestinians to Flee in 1948?

Palestinian refugee: Jordanian army told us to leave in 1948 War - Video

 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuGqpFxogRg]Refugee - Arab states told Arabs to leave Israel in 1948 war - YouTube[/ame]

 The Beirut Daily Telegraph (September 6, 1948) quoted Emil Ghory, secretary of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee: 

 The fact that there are those refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously... 

 The London Economist (October 2, 1948) reported an eyewitness account of the flight of Haifa's Arabs: 

 There is little doubt that the most potent of the factors [in the flight] were the announcements made over the air by the Arab Higher Executive urging all Arabs in Haifa to quit... And it was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades. 

 Habib Issa, secretary-general of the Arab League, wrote in the New York Lebanese daily "al-Hoda" (June 8, 1951): 

 [Azzam Pasha, Arab League secretary,] assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade... Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes and property, and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states. 

 Former Prime Minister of Syria, Khaled al-Azem, wrote in his memoirs, published in 1973 in Beirut: 

 We brought destruction upon a million Arab refugees by calling on them and pleading with them to leave their land. 

 The Mahmud Abbas ("Abu Mazen") wrote in the PLO journal "Palestine a-Thaura" (March 1976): 

 The Arab armies, who invaded the country in '48, forced the Palestinians to emigrate and leave their homeland and forced a political and ideological siege on them.


----------



## Kondor3 (Feb 12, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> "..._In Operation Cast Lead, over a 1000 Palestinian's were killed. Do you know how many Israeli's were killed during that same period?  13_..."


An excellent kill-ratio... that is how wars are won.


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## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Because it wouldn't be true.
> Jews are NOT above the law and we are seemingly bound by a much higher moral code than the followers of Islam.
> For example...We don't blow people up in Spain because we're pissed off at people in Gaza.
> The Arabs should NOT have fled in 1948.
> ...



Jews are not above the law, but Israelis seem to think they are.  That's why they violate international law with total impunity and make racist statements calling for ethnic cleansing in this forum.  They think laws and morals are "for thee but not for me".

This is why Israel is not liked around the world.    And perhaps it is deserved.

Reading some of the posts in this forum makes me think it is deserved.


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## toastman (Feb 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



I've been looking for that video, thanks for posting it

That video is actually a clip from an award winning documentary about the I/P conflict


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## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> So, you are disputing the idea that the political and military leaders of the Arab League's invading nations called upon the Palestinians to abandon their lands, to await their redemption by Arab League forces, after a League victory in 1948, and that many thousands of Palestinian Arabs complied with such calls?



What about the hundreds of thousands of Arabs who were kicked out by the Haganah, Irgun, and Stern Gang?


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## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 12, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > The United Nations not only allows a nation that has been attacked to destroy the attacking mechanism,
> ...



*The United Nation does not consider a population under the occupation of a foreign force, "the attacker".*

Sorry, your terrorist buddies are attackers when they resort to terrorism.


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## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Very much like America's actions during WW2 when many Japanese Americans were arrested and interred for the duration of hostilities



Which was a criminal and illegal act.  The internees received reperations for their suffering.  Just as the Holocaust survivors received reperations for their suffering.

Just as the Arab refugees will receive reperations for their suffering.


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## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

Phoenall said:


> Then show were Israel has ethnically cleansed non Jews from Israel ?



During and right after the 1948 War.  You obviously haven't studied the history of Israel.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 12, 2014)

Billo_Really said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > There was not 1.2 million arabs in Israel pre 1948, as Israel did not exist. Also that is the figure for the whole of Palestine and they were told to leave by the arab commanders.
> ...



It's true, there were some stupid Arabs.....more today.


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## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> You guys are perpetual victims.  Very thin skinned and whiny about everything.  Stick to the point.
> 
> You could have asked in response, how many IQ Point did the average go up?  That would have been on topic.
> 
> ...



A Jew is accusing others of being "perpetual victims" and "thin skinned"?  You must be kidding me.  It is the Jews who cannot tolerate any debate about the Holocaust.  It is the Jews who demand college compuses be free of pro-Palestine literature.  It is the Jews who got prayer banned in American schools to protect their "feelings".   It is the Jews who got Christmas banned from American schools while Menorahs are still allowed, to protect their feelings.  Do not lecture me about non-Jews being perpetual victims and thin skinned for you live in a glass house.

It is this kind of attitude that motivates Israel to violate international law.  They are obsessive hypocrites.

Forgive the rant.  I was baited and I took the bait. Won't happen again.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Then show were Israel has ethnically cleansed non Jews from Israel ?
> ...



They did a really poor job, considering their huge number of Arab citizens.


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## montelatici (Feb 12, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



Actually, they were able to ethnically cleanse 80% of the Christians and Muslims living in the area of Palestine now called Israel.  Pretty darn effective.  Better than Serbs could do in Bosnia.


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## RoccoR (Feb 12, 2014)

Phoenall, _et al,_

Sorry, I missed this one last night.



Phoenall said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > montelatici,  _et al,_
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

So you are saying that there is a comparison to be made between the American Internment Camps and a Refugee Camps; and the Role of UNRWA? 

Interesting.  But I don't think so.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Phoenall said:
> ...



1.2 million Arabs to 200,000 is a 83% success rate.  Milosavic would be proud.


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## José (Feb 12, 2014)

Kondor3 said:


> Billo_Really said:
> 
> 
> > "..._In Operation Cast Lead, over a 1000 Palestinian's were killed. Do you know how many Israeli's were killed during that same period?  13_..."
> ...



It's also what makes young arabs feel an irresistible urge to practice skyscrapper demolition in the United States.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...



Your math is as weak as the rest of your argument.


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## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Your math is as weak as the rest of your argument.



1.2 million down to 200,000 leaves 17%.  That's means 83% was kicked out.

My math is correct.


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## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

José;8610601 said:
			
		

> It's also what makes young arabs feel an irresistible urge to practice skyscrapper demolition in the United States.



The price paid for our unwavering support for the Promised Land State.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Your math is as weak as the rest of your argument.
> ...



Your math is a fail, just like you.


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## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



How is my math wrong?  Are you just going to make unsupported insults?  Don't waste your time.


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## RoccoR (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67, José,  _et al,_

And it is exactly this kind of veiled threats that demonstrate the need to surveil and contain Islamic Militants, Jihadists and Fedayeen, and associated terrorist groups.



Victory67 said:


> José;8610601 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

While the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) repeated makes the claim that they are not terrorist, they demonstrate their intentions over and over again.  They are simply incapable of faithfully observing the principles of international law concerning the establishment of peaceful relations.  

For the HoAP to instigating, encouraging, or tolerating terrorist activities _(skyscrapper demolition)_ intended to be committed against other States or their citizens, only demonstrates that these people have totally lost their honesty, integrity, moral values, and the character needed to promote positive and productive international relations.  Threatening to use terrorism to accomplish the end goals is, all by itself, an element of the offense and a reason to reenforce the containment measures now in place; separating them from other members of the international community for which they pose a danger.

The HoAP is not a victim of apartheid, or ethnic cleansing.  They are the people that are threatening genocide and "skyscrapper demolition."  They are the ones, given their past history of establishing a practice of terrorism, their previous pattern of criminal behavior,  that need security containment.  

Even today:  "The Palestinian official who headed Yasser Arafats security force at the start of the second intifadeh is warning that *armed conflict may well follow* the failure of current peace talks with Israel."  [Read more: Palestinian Official Warns of Violence If Israel Peace Talks Fail | TIME.com Palestinian Official Warns of Violence If Israel Peace Talks Fail | TIME.com]  Violence is the preferred solution.   It has not changed since the 1930's and the Palestinian Black Hand of the Sheik Izz ad-din al-Qassam, and it is the same today.

Most Respectfully,
R


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## ForeverYoung436 (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are perpetual victims.  Very thin skinned and whiny about everything.  Stick to the point.
> ...



Well, you've finally shown your true colors of anti-Semitism.  I will address all your points.  
1)  What "debate" has to be had about the Holocaust?  Whether it actually happened?  Perhaps you would like to debate that point with my dad, who lost his parents and 3 siblings in the Holocaust.
2)  Pro-Palestine and pro-Israel literature should be displayed.
3)  So prayer in public schools wasn't a Separation of Church and State issue?  Only the Joos were responsible?  OK, anti-Semite.
4)  I don't know about Christmas trees in public school.  I do know that Christmas Day is a national holiday in America while no Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, etc. feast is a national holiday.  I know I see alot of Christmas trees in public places in Manhattan, and only a few Hanukkah menorahs.
You have been exposed, anti-Semite, and you aren't credible anymore.


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## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Because it wouldn't be true.
> ...







Once again what International Laws do they violate, and examples in full with the whole of the relevant law posted. This is so we can see how you manipulate and twist words and meanings to support your JEW HATRED and NAZI CRMINALLITY.

Israel does not make any comments on this forum as the members are all individuals from around the world.

 It is you that wants Israel to abide by YOUR rules while giving the Palestinian terrorist scum a free ticket to mass murder Israeli children.

 The only people who don't like Israel are the islamonazi terrorist scum, the neo Nazi scum and the NAZI ANTI SEMETIC JEW HATING SCUM like yourself. No doubt you have a white sheet and a pointy white hate in your wardrobe ready for the revolution that will never come. Or is it a Nazi SS officers uniform with matching jodhpurs and silver spurs.


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## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > So, you are disputing the idea that the political and military leaders of the Arab League's invading nations called upon the Palestinians to abandon their lands, to await their redemption by Arab League forces, after a League victory in 1948, and that many thousands of Palestinian Arabs complied with such calls?
> ...





PROOF and EVIDENCE that they were not terrorists and were told they should leave. That is allowed under International law that applied at the time. No Geneva conventions back then, so you are screwed. And it was hundreds actually not hundreds of thousands that were evicted because they were known terrorists.

 Your grasp on history is sadly lacking in every aspect and you exaggerate numbers like all ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATERS do to make their LIES more horrendous. All it does is make people look more closely at your figures and then call you a LIAR.


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## RoccoR (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67,  _et al,_

While I don't take offense, I think you've made a mistake.



Victory67 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are perpetual victims.  Very thin skinned and whiny about everything.  Stick to the point.
> ...


*(COMMENT)*

While their is nothing wrong with coming from a Jewish Heritage, I'm second generation American of Catholic Italian Immigrants.  

Nothing to forgive.  

And you'll find that I am not one that "cannot tolerate any debate" rendered in good faith.

Most Respectfully,
R


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> While their is nothing wrong with coming from a Jewish Heritage, I'm second generation American of Catholic Italian Immigrants.
> 
> Nothing to forgive.
> 
> ...



Unlike many here you are pretty civil.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Well, you've finally shown your true colors of anti-Semitism.  I will address all your points.
> 1)  What "debate" has to be had about the Holocaust?  Whether it actually happened?  Perhaps you would like to debate that point with my dad, who lost his parents and 3 siblings in the Holocaust.
> 2)  Pro-Palestine and pro-Israel literature should be displayed.
> 3)  So prayer in public schools wasn't a Separation of Church and State issue?  Only the Joos were responsible?  OK, anti-Semite.
> ...


Prayer in American schools was ended after Jewish families sued their school in the Supreme Court because they were offended by prayers in their school.

This was continued years later by more suits by Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_v._Weisman

I don't make the facts I just post them.  There were two other important cases but these are the landmark cases.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, you've finally shown your true colors of anti-Semitism.  I will address all your points.
> ...



And, on what grounds?  Separation of Church and State, right?  America is a nation of all its citizens--Christians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, atheists, agnostics, Wiccans, etc.


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## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> And, on what grounds?  Separation of Church and State, right?  America is a nation of all its citizens--Christians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, atheists, agnostics, Wiccans, etc.



The USA is mostly a Christian nation.  They were forced to stop praying in school by Supreme Court cases mostly brought by Jews, not Wiccans or Muslims or Hindus.


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## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Very much like America's actions during WW2 when many Japanese Americans were arrested and interred for the duration of hostilities
> ...







 Were do you get your information from, it was and is a valid means of controlling a potentially hostile force inside your country. Every nation does it in times of war and they expel all diplomats. What you have said is it is illegal and criminal to arrest murderers, that is how stupid the statement above is. It shows that you know nothing about the Geneva conventions and just what measures can be taken against enemy civilians in your country. I advise you to download all 4 parts and read them until you are word perfect


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## ForeverYoung436 (Feb 12, 2014)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...



I don't think prayers were banned in private schools, were they?  I know a Jewish friend of mine attended St. John's, and he said days started there with prayers to Jesus.  So you should differentiate between "American" private and public schools.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Phoenall said:
> 
> 
> > Then show were Israel has ethnically cleansed non Jews from Israel ?
> ...






 Sorry but your word is about as valid as a 3 dollar coin. Give instances and examples from an unbiased source to show that you are being truthfull. And don't count the muslims who swore to kill every Jewish man woman and child to free Palestine, they were terrorists and could have been shot and not evicted from Israel.


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > And, on what grounds?  Separation of Church and State, right?  America is a nation of all its citizens--Christians, Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, atheists, agnostics, Wiccans, etc.
> ...



Aha.  Anti-Semite.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> RoccoR said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are perpetual victims.  Very thin skinned and whiny about everything.  Stick to the point.
> ...







Why is it that everyone who disagrees with you is a JOOOOO, is it because you are a brainwashed muslim convert that has to prove their worth by posting Lies on a message board


----------



## ForeverYoung436 (Feb 12, 2014)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Victory67 said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...



Tell me, Mr. Hypocrite, why it offends you that Israel is a Jewish nation, when you say America is a Christian nation.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Tell me, Mr. Hypocrite, why it offends you that Israel is a Jewish nation, when you say America is a Christian nation.



I never said the USA is a "Christian nation".

I never said I was offended that Israel is a Jewish nation.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

montelatici said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...







Proof and evidence from an unbiased source as your word is as worthless as second hand toilet paper


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> Aha.  Anti-Semite.



Pointing out that the landmark Supreme Court cases that ended prayer in American public schools were brought forth by Jews is not anti-Semitism.  Its just stating facts.

Meanwhile you fail to criticise people here who call for the non-Jews of the West Bank to be violently removed from their lands.  

Hypocrite.  Your accusations of bigotry are worthless.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

RoccoR said:


> Phoenall, _et al,_
> 
> Sorry, I missed this one last night.
> 
> ...






 Not at all I am comparing the right of the USA to expel and/or inter foreign nationals whose country of origin declares war on the USA. As was the case in Britain were large numbers of Germans and Italians were arrested at the outbreak of war and placed in internment camps for the duration of the war. They were used as labour on the many farms and were paid accordingly but were under armed guard. The same thing happened in Israel in 1949 when Israel expelled those Palestinians that had been heard or seen to engage in the cry for every Jewish man, woman and child to be murdered. They were hostiles living inside a nation they had pledged to destroy so were told to pack and leave as Israel and its people could not trust them to not attack from inside.

 I was holding up to the Jew Haters their hypocrisy in view of the fact that they turn a blind eye to the USA dong the same thing, even the arab nations around Israel when they expelled their Jews in 1949


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Tell me, Mr. Hypocrite, why it offends you that Israel is a Jewish nation, when you say America is a Christian nation.
> ...



Are you offended by Vatican City?
I'm not.

And by the way, each nation has it's own Constitution.


----------



## Indeependent (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Aha.  Anti-Semite.
> ...



There's a reason why people use Jewish lawyers.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Victory67 said:
> ...






Were do you get your figures from, there were barely 1.2 million arabs in Palestine, and the best figures for the refugees is around 650,000. Now produce the evidence from an unbiased source that shows there were 1.2 million arabs expelled from Israel in 1948/1949 by the Jews. This can not include those that left prior to may 1948 as there was no Israel before this date. Nor does it include those who were known to have taken part in the attacks on Israel.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > Your math is as weak as the rest of your argument.
> ...





Not when it comes to original numbers it isn't now do supply a link to these 1.2 million arabs living in Israel right up to 1949.  Must have been at least 10 million living in the whole of Palestine before the arab armies invaded, did they join up and all get killed.


 What a complete and utter moron you are.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> José;8610601 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Or was the price paid for underestimating just how evil and violent the muslims are, and how they hold life so cheap.


----------



## Victory67 (Feb 12, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> Are you offended by Vatican City?
> I'm not.
> 
> And by the way, each nation has it's own Constitution.



Why would Vatican City offend me?  You're not making sense.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Well, you've finally shown your true colors of anti-Semitism.  I will address all your points.
> ...







So on one hand you have a breach of the first amendment that was ratified and corrected, which is not what you are claiming.
 Then you have a breach of the Establishment clause, which again does not support what you claim.

* WHY LIE WHEN YOU KNOW YOU WILL BE FOUND OUT AND BE BRANDED FOR LYING*


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

victory67 said:


> foreveryoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > and, on what grounds?  Separation of church and state, right?  America is a nation of all its citizens--christians, jews, muslims, sikhs, atheists, agnostics, wiccans, etc.
> ...







*stop lying*


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
> 
> 
> > Aha.  Anti-Semite.
> ...






Claiming that they brought the cases because it offended their religion is ANTI SEMITISM, when the real reason was a violation of the first amendment and the Establishment Clause.


----------



## Phoenall (Feb 12, 2014)

Victory67 said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Are you offended by Vatican City?
> ...







 Because it is apartheid and racist in its dealings with non catholics.


----------



## Connery (Feb 12, 2014)

*Thread closed it has run it's course*


----------

