# Persecution of the Church



## Mrs. M. (Nov 4, 2015)

​The Church is not a religion or an Institution as some might believe. The Church is the body of Jesus Christ throughout the world. Persecution of Christians is on the rise. Soon Matthew 24 will be at our own doorstep.

Brother Dumitru Duduman chose extreme torture by the Communist police instead of giving information that would have led to the suffering of his Christian brethren. How does one prepare for that level of persecution?

There is only one way. You must be sold out to Jesus Christ. As Christians we must live a life of complete obedience to Jesus Christ.  Repentance, holiness, prayer, fasting, reading the Word of God and hiding it in our hearts is not an option. There can be no compromise with the world. To be holy is to be separated. If you are a true Christian Pastor or Evangelist, your name is the one that will be left out of every important discussion pertaining to world religion. The worldly and religious both hate true Christianity because it exposes them for what they are. Hypocrites.

When the news media advertises a man as the most famous evangelist in America and prints not one word of criticism about him, you can be sure that man does not represent Jesus Christ. He is a counterfeit.

When the world comes to a stand still over a religious figure whose speeches are political and whose doctrine cannot be found in the King James Bible you can be sure that man does not represent Jesus Christ.  He comes in his own name.

When a televangelist is repeatedly making the top of the New York Times best sellers list, it is a sign the world loves him. Jesus said the world would hate you. Why are some men loved by the world? They are of the world and the world loves its own.

These are the Words of Jesus Christ:

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before _it hated _you.  If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.  Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord.  If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
John 15:18-20
​The persecuted church does not have the popularity of the false church. The world may not recognize them but hell knows their name. These are the laborers in the vineyard.  The laborers are few.  When Christianity becomes criminalized in America and Christians are taken away, will anyone even notice?

William Gurnall wrote,

Who among us has not learned that it takes another spirit than the world can give to follow Christ fully? Let this exhort you, Christian, to petition God for the holy determination and bravery you must have to follow Christ. Without it, you cannot be what you profess. The fearful are those who march for hell (Revelation 21:8), the valiant are they who take heaven by force (Matthew 11:12). Cowards never won heaven. Do not claim that you are begotten of God and have His royal blood running through your veins unless you can prove your lineage by this heroic spirit: to dare to be holy in spite of men and devils.


Many profess Christ but few are Christians. Persecution of the church will separate the wheat from the chaff.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Nov 4, 2015)

The Pentecostal path is but one and at times counterproductive to the spread of the Gospel.


----------



## Kosh (Nov 4, 2015)

The bible is more about the word of man and not the word of God.

The most current versions of the bible are from ancient Greek texts.

There are many gospels that have been found that have been left out..

The Gospel of Thomas Collection - Translations and Resources

The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene

But you do not need to believe in the bible to believe in God..


----------



## Picaro (Nov 7, 2015)

Actually there are no 'missing Gospels'; the Gnostics weren't christian, in any case, as they deny the most basic christian theological tenet, that Christ was actually a flesh and blood man. You do not need to be a believer to see that's not a part of christian theology, but merely sophistry hiding behind Christianity. There really were only four Gospels, and there was no grand conspiracy to misrepresent the 'real Jesus', and no 'secret knowledge' that has been deliberately hidden by later churches.

A couple of links to get started with, for those who aren't familiar with the topic:

Myths about the Lost Books of the New Testament

An interview with Darrell Bock, whose book *The Missing Gospels* is the best intro and discussion on that issue.

http://www.jashow.org/PDF-Articles/MGLC Missing Gospel Bock Transcript.pdf


----------



## Picaro (Nov 7, 2015)

Mrs. M. said:


> ​The Church is not a religion or an Institution as some might believe. The Church is the body of Jesus Christ throughout the world. Persecution of Christians is on the rise. Soon Matthew 24 will be at our own doorstep.
> 
> Brother Dumitru Duduman chose extreme torture by the Communist police instead of giving information that would have led to the suffering of his Christian brethren. How does one prepare for that level of persecution?
> 
> ...



Citing verses out of the context of the books they're found in is an intellectually dishonest practice, even if done with honest intentions.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Nov 7, 2015)

Picaro said:


> Mrs. M. said:
> 
> 
> > ​The Church is not a religion or an Institution as some might believe. The Church is the body of Jesus Christ throughout the world. Persecution of Christians is on the rise. Soon Matthew 24 will be at our own doorstep.
> ...


Picaro, your side does it too.


----------



## Picaro (Nov 7, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> Picaro, your side does it too.



I'm an atheist, Jake, so what 'side' would that be in your mind?


----------



## JakeStarkey (Nov 8, 2015)

Picaro said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro, your side does it too.
> ...


The anti-Godists are intellectually dishonest as the theists, and you know it.


----------



## OnePercenter (Nov 9, 2015)

"I’d like to start a religion. That’s where the money is."

- L. Ron Hubbard


----------



## Kosh (Nov 9, 2015)

Picaro said:


> Actually there are no 'missing Gospels'; the Gnostics weren't christian, in any case, as they deny the most basic christian theological tenet, that Christ was actually a flesh and blood man. You do not need to be a believer to see that's not a part of christian theology, but merely sophistry hiding behind Christianity. There really were only four Gospels, and there was no grand conspiracy to misrepresent the 'real Jesus', and no 'secret knowledge' that has been deliberately hidden by later churches.
> 
> A couple of links to get started with, for those who aren't familiar with the topic:
> 
> ...



The Orthodox Jews do not recognize the son of God, they believe Jesus was a man, but not the son of God.

Also you may want to update your religious database to include this:
Gnostics Christians - A Different Way To Be Christian

Then again to deny other gospels into the realm of Christianity shows proves without a doubt that the current bible is not complete or correct. The gospel of Judas removes a key component in the other stories presented in the bible.

And that is what the bible is, a book of stories or "gospels". To leave any out leaves the story incomplete.

There has been a flurry of discussion in recent years over the “Lost Tomb of Jesus”, an intriguing documentary that attempts to refute Jesus Christ’s resurrection and ascension.

Even Christian scholars themselves say that the Bible is corrupted. a good example is former evangelical Christian Bart Ehrman. He wrote many books on why Christianity is corrupt and the Bible is corrupt (this man is now an agnostic.) 

History would prove to you that Jesus and his apostles did not believe that he was divine or the son of God. For the ancient Jews, being called the Son of God or the Daughter of God means a Pious Servant who always worshipped God.

But then again atheism is a religion no matter how they will deny it is and shows why atheists do not understand anything outside their own religion.


----------



## Picaro (Nov 19, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Point out all these 'Anti-God' posts I've made, Jake, then we can discuss what 'side' I'm on.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Nov 19, 2015)

We are discussing what you are posting, and those are the ones that show what side you are on.

You do not get to run from your words or deflect from them.


----------



## Picaro (Nov 19, 2015)

Kosh said:


> The Orthodox Jews do not recognize the son of God, they believe Jesus was a man, but not the son of God.



So? Did I say anything different?



> Also you may want to update your religious database to include this:
> Gnostics Christians - A Different Way To Be Christian
> 
> Then again to deny other gospels into the realm of Christianity shows proves without a doubt that the current bible is not complete or correct. The gospel of Judas removes a key component in the other stories presented in the bible.



Those aren't Gospels, they just pretend to be. The orthodoxy adopted by the Nicean councils was the earliest and most accepted. Some writings were left out because they were redundant, not necessarily because they were 'wrong'; many were left out because they were considered 'passion' literature, personal interpretations or discussions by others, and not directly related to the early orthodoxy. Others, like the gnostic writings, were not accepted because they were gibberish philosophizing and in many cases outright lies and not at all consistent with Christianity, and any reading of them makes that easy to establish.



> And that is what the bible is, a book of stories or "gospels". To leave any out leaves the story incomplete.



Only for those whose real objective is to distort and rewrite the theology in their own images, usually unrelated to real theology and more in the vein of bashing the orthodoxy and discrediting it than any honest reasons.



> There has been a flurry of discussion in recent years over the “Lost Tomb of Jesus”, an intriguing documentary that attempts to refute Jesus Christ’s resurrection and ascension.
> 
> Even Christian scholars themselves say that the Bible is corrupted. a good example is former evangelical Christian Bart Ehrman. He wrote many books on why Christianity is corrupt and the Bible is corrupt (this man is now an agnostic.)



Anecdotal stories about some crank or other doesn't validate crank theories.



> History would prove to you that Jesus and his apostles did not believe that he was divine or the son of God. For the ancient Jews, being called the Son of God or the Daughter of God means a Pious Servant who always worshipped God.



History proves to me that the orthodoxy won out because it was the most accurate, widely accepted, and widespread. Finding a handful of scrolls somewhere in isolated places doesn't make them the dominant 'truth', or that they were deliberately oppressed by evul meanies or something.



> But then again atheism is a religion no matter how they will deny it is and shows why atheists do not understand anything outside their own religion.



Ironic, given it's *you* who doesn't like the orthodoxy and is trying to revise it, not me.


----------



## Picaro (Nov 19, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> We are discussing what you are posting, and those are the ones that show what side you are on.
> 
> You do not get to run from your words or deflect from them.



Yes,we know you're embarrassed by your typical knee-jerk reactionary stereo-typing. I didn't think you knew what you were talking about, and were just trolling for attention. Go ahead and point out that 'anti-God' stuff I posted here, Jake. Quote all those 'anti-God' posts I've supposedly made, and link to them, so we can all see what I'm allegedly 'running from' in your mind.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Nov 19, 2015)

Picaro said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > We are discussing what you are posting, and those are the ones that show what side you are on.
> ...


Says the troll who cannot handle honest criticism.

Yes, you are a knee-jerk reactionary who simply disagrees with others.  So what.

Jesus and the apostles disagree with you, kiddo, so yeah you are anti-Godist.


----------



## DarkFury (Nov 19, 2015)

Mrs. M. said:


> ​The Church is not a religion or an Institution as some might believe. The Church is the body of Jesus Christ throughout the world. Persecution of Christians is on the rise. Soon Matthew 24 will be at our own doorstep.
> 
> Brother Dumitru Duduman chose extreme torture by the Communist police instead of giving information that would have led to the suffering of his Christian brethren. How does one prepare for that level of persecution?
> 
> ...


*Outstanding opening. Might do well.*


----------



## DarkFury (Nov 19, 2015)

Picaro said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro, your side does it too.
> ...


*Atheist IS a religion using the general terms that define one. They write books the can attend meetings and hold a certain core thoughts as the same. So atheist IS a religion but NOT a "faith" in the Christian sense. But as it is held by the many with no more proof then the other it as well is based on faith.*


----------



## Picaro (Nov 19, 2015)

JakeStarkey said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



lol ... so now you have to make up stuff I wasn't talking about, so you can 'refute' it? I said nothing at all about Jesus or the Apostles, Jake, but apparently you think Jesus and the Apostles were gnostics? That makes no sense at all, but then that's what you do. So you think Thomas was a real 'Gospel', do you? Neither you or Kosh are even talking about the same subject I am, but apparently you're both too confused to grasp that and are going on about something different. But I will read what you think refutes the orthodoxy in favor of this imaginary secret Jesus both of you seem to think some conspiracy theory suppressed and distorted. So far there is no evidence of any such thing in the historical record to support the view that the gnostic beliefs were anything but isolated little cults and not even remotely mainstream.

Or you can just continue your usual dumbassery. Go ahead and produce all that evidence gnosticism was the real Christianity, or go annoy somebody in the fever swamps with your silly Emily Letella Moments


----------



## Picaro (Nov 19, 2015)

DarkFury said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> > JakeStarkey said:
> ...



Don't confuse all atheists with the Dawkins Dufuses; we're not all supportive of that neurotic sociopath, for one, and for two, atheism has nothing to do with what I'm talking about re the early history of Christianity and its progress. Apparently you have some weird perception that I'm attacking it or something. You got that from Jake's retarded posts, not mine.

Don't be a Jake; it will only bring you insanity and sadness.


----------



## DarkFury (Nov 19, 2015)

Picaro said:


> DarkFury said:
> 
> 
> > Picaro said:
> ...


*Jake and I seldom agree but when WE DO. Its like hitting a brick wall.*


----------



## Weatherman2020 (Nov 19, 2015)

Mrs. M. said:


> ​The Church is not a religion or an Institution as some might believe. The Church is the body of Jesus Christ throughout the world. Persecution of Christians is on the rise. Soon Matthew 24 will be at our own doorstep.
> 
> Brother Dumitru Duduman chose extreme torture by the Communist police instead of giving information that would have led to the suffering of his Christian brethren. How does one prepare for that level of persecution?
> 
> ...


I see the wheat and chaff already clearly separated. I see no middle ground anymore.


----------



## JakeStarkey (Nov 20, 2015)

Picaro etc are merely moaning and groaning, nothing more


----------

