# Dem Congressman takes apart tea party whiner



## Dot Com (Feb 8, 2014)

the GOP cherry-picked witness, unsurprisingly had Jay Seculow as council lol. Could they be any more transparent?  

 4 min clip:

C-SPAN | Democrat owns TeaParty vote suppressor (sp.)


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## Howey (Feb 8, 2014)

Love it! Dumbass teabagger probably didn't know what hit him.


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## PredFan (Feb 8, 2014)

I don't even have to watch it to know its bull shit. Just the fact that two if the biggest left wing hacks agree on it, tells me it didn't happen that way.

Not even a nice try morons.


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## Dot Com (Feb 8, 2014)

NTG said:


> Love it! Dumbass teabagger probably didn't know what hit him.



"her", hit "her" Watch the vid. Connelly pwns her.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 8, 2014)

NTG said:


> Love it! Dumbass teabagger probably didn't know what hit him.



He was a she, and she said that OSHA showed up without warning and started interviewing employees without management's knowledge, looking for dirt on a woman who applied for a tax-free status in another organization. One government agency after another showing up to look for violations just because she was a conservative. She never had this problem before over her 20 plus years in operation up until the last 3 years. Looks like a clear case of political harassment to me. 

The dickwad (Democrat) asking the questions wouldn't allow her to answer the questions. It was total Bullshit. Every one of the issues the representative mentioned could all be corrected by PPE, Personal Protective Equipment. This is the most common form of safety involved in a work environment.


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## peach174 (Feb 8, 2014)

Why did OSHA,EPA,FBI and the BATF come in one after the other to inspect her place of business?
None of them ever came in before in the 20 years that they had a business.


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## Dot Com (Feb 8, 2014)

looking for dirt?  It was an OSHA inspection you hack/s. The fed is low on Inspectors in all agencies in no small part to GOP cutting funding, no doubt. USDA is a good example. How many meat inspectors do we have for the 100's/1000's of slaughter houses in this country? VERY few relative to the number of slaughter houses.


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## HenryBHough (Feb 8, 2014)

Remember those cozy old days when the only presidential goon squad was The IRS?


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## peach174 (Feb 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> looking for dirt?  It was an OSHA inspection you hack/s. The fed is low on Inspectors in all agencies in no small part to GOP cutting funding, no doubt. USDA is a good example. How many meat inspectors do we have for the 100's/1000's of slaughter houses in this country? VERY few relative to the number of slaughter houses.



Why was the FBI and the BATF involved?
I can see why OSHA and the EPA but not the others.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> looking for dirt? * It was an OSHA inspection you hack/s*. The fed is low on Inspectors in all agencies in no small part to GOP cutting funding, no doubt. USDA is a good example. How many meat inspectors do we have for the 100's/1000's of slaughter houses in this country? VERY few relative to the number of slaughter houses.



Yeah, it's all the GOP's fault again. 

Must be a carry-over from the Bush Administration.......


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## Dot Com (Feb 8, 2014)

voting suppressors are the worst of the worst. I'll find Chairman Cummings (D) remarks after I return from the club.


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## Howey (Feb 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> NTG said:
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> > Love it! Dumbass teabagger probably didn't know what hit him.
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Sorry, typo. But yes, he did.


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## Barb (Feb 8, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> NTG said:
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> > Love it! Dumbass teabagger probably didn't know what hit him.
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OSHA shows up at a business ONLY at the request of an employee OF that business, and it has to be a currently employed person AT the business.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> voting suppressors are the worst of the worst. I'll find Chairman Cummings (D) remarks after I return from the club.



Yeah, the I.D. thing is really voter suppression. 

You Dems are so full of crapola.


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## mudwhistle (Feb 8, 2014)

Barb said:


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Yeah, and they don't have any Obama voters working there ether. 

Oh, and the administration never, ever breaks the law.


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## RandomVariable (Feb 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> the GOP cherry-picked witness, unsurprisingly had Jay Seculow as council lol. Could they be any more transparent?
> 
> 4 min clip:
> 
> C-SPAN | Democrat owns TeaParty vote suppressor (sp.)



Sorry, have to wait till I get on a Windows box. C-SPAN messed up their site sooo bad. Why can't they just run their videos through YouTube or something. Geez. How did they manage to program a Flash video so badly?


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## RandomVariable (Feb 8, 2014)

RandomVariable said:


> Dot Com said:
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> > the GOP cherry-picked witness, unsurprisingly had Jay Seculow as council lol. Could they be any more transparent?
> ...



And none of their stuff works on mobile devices. Sorry to vent but it annoys me something fierce.


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## SFC Ollie (Feb 8, 2014)

Well that was a waste of two minutes of my time....


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## Dot Com (Feb 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> looking for dirt?  It was an OSHA inspection you hack/s. The fed is low on Inspectors in all agencies in no small part to GOP cutting funding, no doubt. USDA is a good example. How many meat inspectors do we have for the 100's/1000's of slaughter houses in this country? VERY few relative to the number of slaughter houses.



case in point: Recall of nearly 9 million pounds of meat not fully inspected - CNN.com


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## Dot Com (Feb 8, 2014)

RandomVariable said:


> Dot Com said:
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> > the GOP cherry-picked witness, unsurprisingly had Jay Seculow as council lol. Could they be any more transparent?
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I noticed they just changed their site because I haven't been there in months. Yeah, the vids are bigger. Anyway, heres the ranking memeber Elijah Cummings (D-MD) chiding rw groups for disenfranchising voters 

C-SPAN | Ranking member on voting rights


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## RandomVariable (Feb 8, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> RandomVariable said:
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I'll get to that also. Don't mean to hijack your thread but a couple of comments on C-SPAN. When they first started they would start the feed about 10 minutes or so before the actually briefing. One would get to see all the reporters sitting around and joking, learned some interesting stuff that way. The spokesperson would walk in and everyone would go into their 'official journalist' manners. The other is that one time I was watching a briefing and a question was asked. The spokesperson answered it. The same question was asked again and it was answered. He called on another person who asked the same question. At some point the spokesperson just blurted out some answer. The question was then not asked again. I was puzzled as to what just happened. Then I realized that the reporters needed something that fit within their headline that was a quote, no matter how well it represented the longer answer. It gave some valuable insight into the news gathering and reporting process.


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## Stephanie (Feb 9, 2014)

anyone notice how violent the left/Democrats are and cheers?

thread after thread the titles are, Democrats slams, Democrats takes someone apart, etc

It's a sad testament to what that party and the people in it have become

nasty, threatening, dumps on the American citizens and then laughs about it


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## L.K.Eder (Feb 9, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> anyone notice how violent the left/Democrats are and cheers?
> 
> thread after thread the titles are, Democrats slams, Democrats takes someone apart, etc
> 
> ...



the sad testimony in this case was that of ms engelbrecht.

you are, as usual, off-topic and retarded.

thanks for sharing.


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## Stephanie (Feb 9, 2014)

L.K.Eder said:


> Stephanie said:
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> > anyone notice how violent the left/Democrats are and cheers?
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oh well then, cry us a river about it

not only are they violent, we can add the Democrats and their base are ugly American's too


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## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> Barb said:
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There's been no findings of law breaking.

And that's with multiple very serious investigations making very serious accusations.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

True The Vote Founder to Congress: "I Will Not Retreat. I Will Not Surrender. I Refuse To Be Intimidated" | Video | RealClearPolitics

Bear in mind, distinguished ladies and gentlemen of this sub-committee, these events were occuring while the IRS was subjecting me to multiple rounds of abusive inquiries, with *requests to provide every Facebook and Twitter entry Id every posted, questions about my political aspirations, and demands to know the names of every group Id ever made presentations to, the content of what Id said, and where I intended to speak for the coming year*. The answers to these sorts of questions are not of interest to the typical IRS analyst, but they are of great interest to a political machine that puts its own survival above the civil liberties of any private citizen.

This government attacked me because of my political beliefs, but I refuse to be cast as a victim; not to the IRS, not to the FBI, not to OSHA, not to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, or to any other government agency. I am not a victim, because to be a victim is to accept that I have no options. I do have options and I intend to use them all to the fullest extent of my capabilities.

As an American citizen, I am part of a country that still believes in freedom of speech, and so I will continue to speak out; here in Congress and all across this country, I will continue to press in every legal way possible, as I did by filing suit against the Internal Revenue Service. *No American citizen should be willing to accept a government that uses its power against its own people.*

I also refuse to let a precedent be set that allows Members of Congress, particularly the Ranking Member of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, to misrepresent this governing body in an effort to demonize and intimidate citizens.* Three times, Representative Elijah Cummings sent letters to True the Vote, demanding much of the same information that the IRS had requested. Hours after sending letters, he

would appear on cable news and publicly defame me and my organization*. Such tactics are unacceptable. It is for these reasons that immediately after this hearing *I am filing a formal complaint with the House Office of Congressional Ethics and asking for a full investigation.*

After all the tyranny, all the things that have been done to my organizations, to my family and to me; many people would have quit. And, Mr. Chairman, many Americans have quit. I have heard, over and over, that people are afraid to tell their stories because of what has or might happen to them and their families at the hands of our own government.

But know this, my experiences at the hands of this government in these last five years have made me more determined than ever to stand before you and America and say *I will not retreat. I will not surrender. I refuse to be intimidated. I will not ask for permission to exercise my Constitutional rights.
*
I come before you today Mr. Chairman, on behalf of Americans just like me, asking for a solution to end this ugly chapter of political intimidation. There was a time when people of goodwill were encouraged to participate in the processes of government; not targeted because of it. I applaud Congressman Issa and Jordans request of the Internal Revenue Service to withdraw a proposed regulation limiting political speech by nonprofit organizations. That action should be taken quickly and without fail, because if allowed to pass, these new regulations will effectively codify into law the very practices that bring me here today. If those regulations pass, non-profit organizations across the country will be destroyed. No American, regardless of their political affiliation, should support the silencing of political speech.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

One Dem, challenges here because she refused to back down and challenged his authority.

So, on the one leg he had to stand on from the abuses of power he attacked her on OSHA VIOLATIONS.................

Ignoring the other agencies that had never been to her place of business before, all of a sudden showing up and attacking her family and place of business................................

Why the hell did she get 6 visits from the FBI.............Why did she get visits by the BATF................

The Libs are looking for any excuse of the abuses of power as happened in this video........and show it as a victory of sorts as they ignore why she was testifying in the first place.


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## Stephanie (Feb 9, 2014)

How sick to post a video and then cream their jeans because a ELECTED politician tears apart an AMERCIAN CITIZEN?

some of you are pathetic in what is entertainment to you...but are good little Democrat useful tools


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## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> I* applaud Congressman Issa and Jordans request of the Internal Revenue Service to withdraw a proposed regulation limiting political speech by nonprofit organizations.* That action should be taken quickly and without fail, because if allowed to pass, these new regulations will effectively codify into law the very practices that bring me here today. If those regulations pass, non-profit organizations across the country will be destroyed. No American, regardless of their political affiliation, should support the silencing of political speech.



Funny that Issa would support BREAKING THE LAW. Well he is a criminal after all.

The IRS regulation and Federal Law do not comport. And the regulation needs to be changed.

Non profits are not for political speech.


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## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> How sick to post a video and then cream their jeans because a ELECTED politician tears apart an AMERCIAN CITIZEN?
> 
> some of you are pathetic in what is entertainment to you...but are good little Democrat useful tools



I like when law breakers get caught.


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## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> One Dem, challenges here because she refused to back down and challenged his authority.
> 
> So, on the one leg he had to stand on from the abuses of power he attacked her on OSHA VIOLATIONS.................
> 
> ...



He had 5 minutes.

And it seems that OSHA found some very serious violations.


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## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

Wow.  What a take down.  Thanks for the thread.

I watched a good part of that dog and pony show the mugfock cons held last week, but I missed that.

That True The Vote bitch I have been aware of an keeping tabs on their disgusting activity for years now - and I was astounded what a pity-poor-me victim display she was putting on during that hearing.

If I have time, I'll bring some info about her org, The King Street Patriots, and True the Vote liars, racists, thieves and major league assholes.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Sallow said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > I* applaud Congressman Issa and Jordans request of the Internal Revenue Service to withdraw a proposed regulation limiting political speech by nonprofit organizations.* That action should be taken quickly and without fail, because if allowed to pass, these new regulations will effectively codify into law the very practices that bring me here today. If those regulations pass, non-profit organizations across the country will be destroyed. No American, regardless of their political affiliation, should support the silencing of political speech.
> ...



LOL   quoting something I didn't post huh....................

Is that all you got.....................

Which part of her testimony that the left ignores are you trying to cover up.


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## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

Here's a little background on the bitch:



> Perhaps some historical points of reference would help. In 2010, when  the Tea Party swept elections across the country, the King Street  Patriots were actively involved in all kinds of voter suppression shenanigans.  The content of the group's email campaign to intimidate voter  registration group Houston Votes is too vile to reproduce here, but you  can read it over on TPM.
> 
> 
> Engelbrecht led the charge, accusing Houston Votes  of being the long arm of the New Black Panthers. Death threats ensued,  along with many racist threats to make sure black voters understood who  was in charge when it came to voting in Houston.
> ...


Fox's Kelly Props Up 'True the Vote' Fake Ethics Charges Against Rep. Cummings | Crooks and Liars

Here's more:


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## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

(From MAY)
*
Tea Party Group Screams IRS Persecution, But Judge Ruled They Illegally Aided the GOP in 2012   * 

On  March 28, 2012, Chron  reported that a Texas Tea Party group with the word &#8220;Patriot&#8221; in its  title was found by a judge to be a PAC and not a nonprofit. The judge  ruled that as such, it illegally aided the Republican Party in poll  watching efforts during the 2010 elections. The King Street  Patriots/True the Vote are not a nonprofit, but a PAC:
​A Travis County district court judge ruled this week that  a Houston-based tea party group is not a nonprofit corporation as it  claims, but an unregistered political action committee that illegally  aided the Republican Party through its poll-watching efforts during the  2010 elections.
 The summary judgment by Judge John Dietz upheld several Texas  campaign finance laws that had been challenged on constitutional grounds  by King Street Patriots, a tea party organization known for its &#8220;True  the Vote&#8221; effort to uncover voter fraud.
 The ruling grew out of a 2010 lawsuit filed by the Texas Democratic  Party against the King Street Patriots. The Democrats charged that the  organization made unlawful political contributions to the Texas  Republican Party and various Republican candidates by training poll  watchers in cooperation with the party and its candidates and by holding  candidate forums only for GOP candidates.
​You might be thinking, well, heck, that&#8217;s just one state. And you&#8217;d  be correct, except that the King Street Patriot&#8217;s True the Vote operates  all over the country, and has run afoul of the law and ethics numerous  times. 



Tea Party Group Screams IRS Persecution, But Judge Ruled They Illegally Aided the GOP in 2012


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## driveby (Feb 9, 2014)

Sallow said:


> mudwhistle said:
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How many "findings" are there going to be when Obama and Eric Holder are responsible for the "investigating"? ....


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## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

Looks like when you peel the Onion back..



> Cummings did, in fact, write to the group asking them questions about their activities. What kind of activities? Well, True the Vote is very very interested in strict voter ID requirements, and they are active in monitoring polling stations on election days. But they are non-partisan, and who is anyone to say otherwise?
> 
> 
> The Institute for Research and Education on Human Rights in 2012 reported that True the Vote&#8217;s poll monitoring efforts in North Carolina were tailored to African-American and minority communities that traditionally vote Democrat.
> ...


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Sallow said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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> > One Dem, challenges here because she refused to back down and challenged his authority.
> ...



1.  It's not about the violations.......... It's about being seen by every agency after none of them were ever there for 2 DECADES.........................Suddenly they get a surprise visit by OSHA....................LOL

2.  You've probably never been through an OSHA inspection anyway.........They show up and see one or two guys walking around without their safety glasses on or grinding without a FACE SHIELD and GO THIS BUSINESS IS EVIL......................

Without seeing the actual OSHA REPORT, I cannot determine whether or not they were serious violations or simply some employees not obeying the rules of their work place..............I work in industrial..............People get written up for not complying with the rules all the time............Yet if you happen to get caught not wearing a set of ear plugs at the time of an inspection, YOU ARE A SERIOUS VIOLATION OF OSHA..........

Lion's and Tigers and Bears................OSHA will fine that company for any instance of seeing any employee not obeying the laws during the visit irregardless of company safety policies...........It's just what they do..........and the violations may very well be against the company policy where the violations occurred.............................


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## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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What are you talking about?

I quoted your post.

You are advocating for law breaking. As is Issa.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Sallow said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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I stand corrected on it was in the article only.......need another cup of coffee.............

The law breaking is the repeated attacks by various agencies after applying for non profit status.


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## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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Those weren't the only violations.

You should watch the video again.


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## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


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Sounds like you don't know the law.

Allow me to school you.



> IRC 501(c)(4) provides for exemption from federal income tax of civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated* exclusively *for the promotion of social welfare
> http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicm95.pdf



The LAW and the IRS REGULATION do not comport.

You and Issa are advocating to keep the situation in place.

That's law breaking.


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## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

Here's the OSHA report: https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/establishment.inspection_detail?id=525458.015

10 serious violations.


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## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> 1.  It's not about the violations.......... It's about being seen by every agency after none of them were ever there for 2 DECADES.........................Suddenly they get a surprise visit by OSHA....................LOL


"The citations, released Friday evening by the U.S. Department of  Labor ...show that the business was  cited for obstructions in aisles, neglect in labeling non-exit  doorways that could be mistaken for exits, failure to make sure the  forklift operators wore seatbelts, not providing employees operating a  metal grinder with protective eyewear, allowing an employee to operate a  forklift without proper training and certification, 

failure to install  guards on rotating grinders and band saws, failure to anchor a milling  machine to the floor, creating an electrical hazard by plugging heavy  machinery and other electrical devices into portable power strips  instead of fixed wiring, and failure to label numerous hazardous  chemicals.

 Of Engelbrecht&#8217;s complaint that the OSHA inspections were  &#8220;unscheduled,&#8221; Department of Labor spokeswoman Diana Petterson responds:  &#8220;it is illegal to provide advance notice of OSHA inspections so there  is no such thing as a &#8216;scheduled audit.&#8217;&#8221;

 She said that Engelbrecht&#8217;s oilfield machine tool operation, which  according to a video produced by Johnson had not been inspected for its  first 18 years of operation,* was chosen as part of an OSHA  initiative  to inspect fabricated metal products manufacturers in Arkansas,  Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas and New Mexico."
*
http://host.madison.com/news/local/...cle_3d237f86-9893-5b7b-be0b-55fb66dc0ce4.html

She got away with it for 20 years, and is now bitching.Poor pitiful "victim."  Puke.


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## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

paperview said:


> eagle1462010 said:
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> > 1.  It's not about the violations.......... It's about being seen by every agency after none of them were ever there for 2 DECADES.........................Suddenly they get a surprise visit by OSHA....................LOL
> ...



Seems the eagle has landed.


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## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

More stuff here at this link:
No More Mister Nice Blog

"But if we're talking about Catherine Engelbrecht of True the Vote and  the King Street Patriots, I have no sympathy whatsoever, and my only  problem with making her jump through hoops to get tax-exempt status is  that her application should have been laughed out of every office at the  IRS."



No sympathy from me either.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

> 1910.22(b)(1)
> 
> Where mechanical handling equipment is used, sufficient safe clearances shall be allowed for aisles, at loading docks, through doorways and wherever turns or passage must be made. Aisles and passageways shall be kept clear and in good repairs, with no obstruction across or in aisles that could create a hazard.





> 1910.37(b)(5)
> Each doorway or passage along an exit access that could be mistaken for an exit must be marked "Not an Exit" or similar designation, or be identified by a sign indicating its actual use (e.g., closet).





> 1910.132(a)
> Application. Protective equipment, including personal protective equipment for eyes, face, head, and extremities, protective clothing, respiratory devices, and protective shields and barriers, shall be provided, used, and maintained in a sanitary and reliable condition wherever it is necessary by reason of hazards of processes or environment, chemical hazards, radiological hazards, or mechanical irritants encountered in a manner capable of causing injury or impairment in the function of any part of the body through absorption, inhalation or physical contact.





> 1910.133(a)(1)
> The employer shall ensure that each affected employee uses appropriate eye or face protection when exposed to eye or face hazards from flying particles, molten metal, liquid chemicals, acids or caustic liquids, chemical gases or vapors, or potentially injurious light radiation.



Here are the first 4 serious violations.........and my thanks to the poster who posted the violations............I was going to post the remaining 6 but the url went up forbidden as I was going to cut and paste each violation cited...............


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## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

And the other agent investigation might have had something to do with the mysterious suspected arson that disappeared all of the voting equipment in Houston in 2010.

*Houston's Voting Machines Go Up in Smoke*

"The three-alarm blaze broke out in the 28,000-square-foot warehouse just  after 4 a.m., destroying some 10,000 pieces of election gear housed  there.

 The total loss was valued at about $40 million &#8212; $30  million in voting equipment and $10 million for the building, said  Kaufman.

 The machines were set to supply nearly 800 polling sites for early voting, which begins Oct. 18."


Glenn W. Smith: Possible Arson and the Right's Texas Voter Suppression EffortA mysterious fire last Friday destroys all of the voting  machines in Harris County (Houston), Texas. Arson investigators have not  yet issued an opinion. Meanwhile, a well-funded right-wing group  emerges in Houston and begins raising unfounded allegations of  widespread voter fraud. A video on their website pictures only people of  color when it talks of voter fraud. White people are shown talking  patriotically about the need for a million vigilantes to suppress  illegal votes. 

 In the video, an unidentified spokesman for  "TrueTheVote" says, "If we lose Houston, we lose Texas. And guess what?  If we lose Texas we lose the country." The former Mayor of Houston,  Democrat Bill White, is running against secessionist Republican Gov.  Rick Perry this year. White's counting on a big turnout in his home  town. The fire and the voter suppression campaign guarantee a greatly  diminished turnout.

TrueTheVote's video is well produced.  Participants speak in calm and knowing tones, disguising the racist  agenda behind their project. We don't yet know where the group's money  comes from. But they have money. 

 As I've said before,  right-wing voter suppression campaigns are the most under-reported  political scandal of the last 50-100 years. But there's never been  anything like the criminal destruction of all the voting machines in the  nation's fourth largest city. You don't have to be a conspiracy  theorist to suspect the machines in Houston were destroyed by an  arsonist. Warehouses don't regularly and spontaneously combust at four  in the morning, especially warehouses containing all the voting tools in  a pivotal city in a pivotal election.​


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

1st violation on passageways..............this is a violation of moving equipment like a fork lift............through loading zones............You can notice that it didn't have a violation of B2 codes........which require all loading docks and lanes be CLEARLY MARKED by OSHA STANDARDS.............

I'll make an assumption based on working in the industry...........as I didn't see the EXACT violation............either an employee was in the lanes while material was being removed, or material was temporarily in these lanes and loading areas that obstructed the vision of the operator or forced the fork lift operator to go around stuff in the loading lanes or loading area..............

Again, without the exact hit, I have to make a good guess............This is a standard hit of OSHA in inspections............and I have worked in places that have been fined for this very reason.  In one several plants I've worked at, they have specifically stated to STAY in the WALKING PATHS ONLY as part of their training because they could be fined if you are in the loading paths........They also state to not store anything in these paths..............

These violations happen all the time in the Industry.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Item 2 violation...............

Holy chit Batman...........the closet wasn't labelled a NOT AN EXIT............

Typical BS from big headed OSHA inspectors............It's not labeled a closet or NOT AN EXIT.........even though all the EXITS ARE CLEARLY MARKED..........as THIS WAS NOT A VIOLATION............

On this so called serious event...........LOL..........typical BS from OSHA.............


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Item 3 PPE general violation....................

Means either one or more employees were seen without the proper PPE during the inspection........Either they weren't wearing eye protection, ear plugs, or face shields etc........during inspection...........

Common hit in the INDUSTRY..........I've actually been threatened to be written up for taking off my safety glasses to wipe them because they were fogged up............5 seconds of attempting to be able to see out the glasses..........I asked on one of these equations a safety man why it was such a big deal..........

He told me to walk out of the area and then clean up the glasses...........

I told him I couldn't see because they were fogged up, and he gave me the standard BS........I stated that is it safer to clean my glasses are walk out of an operating unit when I couldn't see..........

The little coward walked away unable to answer.........

Again Standard BS................


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## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

In some ways I'm delighted Engelbrecht and her cohorts were pulled into the light.

Finally people will see some of the scum from the True the Vote wanks.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Item 4 is Item 3 with a twist................

That the company is to ensure that the employees have the safety equipment and must ensure they wear them according to the rules..............

At no point did I see the OSHA violation that stated company policy was in violation but the ENFORCEMENT of these rules were at risk.............OSHA on inspection will ask for these documents at the beginning of the investigation.............They will obtain the companies SAFETY STANDARDS and documents to see if they are in accordance with OSHA standards................

So this violation is a double hit on the same infraction...............I see NO WHERE were the company didn't have a tool room or safety department that issues the Safety equipment.........Since there was no violation reporting this that I saw, then these departments and places to get safety equipment must have been there.


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## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

paperview said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > 1.  It's not about the violations.......... It's about being seen by every agency after none of them were ever there for 2 DECADES.........................Suddenly they get a surprise visit by OSHA....................LOL
> ...



Well Lib it is obvious to me you've never been around for an OSHA inspection..........

They can trump up violations for as little as having a coke can in a loading aisle if they choose to be a prick..................

I've seen these so called violations and citations in my time............and most are a simple result of employees not following the rules at the time, or poor house keeping.

A tool room issuing faulty tools instead of replacing or repairing them or not issuing them instead..............

What you see as SERIOUS violations HAPPEN ALL THE TIME...........and while the companies must ENFORCE these codes as it is their job they can't watch every employee 100% of the time..................

You're side is saying SERIOUS VIOLATIONS because obviously a dumb LIB would be too stupid to understand they ran into a CLOSET instead of an EXIT even though there were obviously EXIT signs as they received no violations in that code.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

The moral to the not properly marked violation...............................

Libs who can't figure out exits and run into CLOSETS to escape the plant shouldn't work in the INDUSTRIAL FIELD.......................

Including the GEEK politician who questioned in the original video.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 9, 2014)

Sallow said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > I* applaud Congressman Issa and Jordans request of the Internal Revenue Service to withdraw a proposed regulation limiting political speech by nonprofit organizations.* That action should be taken quickly and without fail, because if allowed to pass, these new regulations will effectively codify into law the very practices that bring me here today. If those regulations pass, non-profit organizations across the country will be destroyed. No American, regardless of their political affiliation, should support the silencing of political speech.
> ...



Bullshit. Then kick the NAACP and all other Democrat supporters out of it.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 9, 2014)

Sallow said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > I* applaud Congressman Issa and Jordans request of the Internal Revenue Service to withdraw a proposed regulation limiting political speech by nonprofit organizations.* That action should be taken quickly and without fail, because if allowed to pass, these new regulations will effectively codify into law the very practices that bring me here today. If those regulations pass, non-profit organizations across the country will be destroyed. No American, regardless of their political affiliation, should support the silencing of political speech.
> ...


true. They are supposed to be social education but we know that isn't what the 100's/1000's of 501c4 that popped-up were for.


paperview said:


> Wow.  What a take down.  Thanks for the thread.
> 
> I watched a good part of that dog and pony show the mugfock cons held last week, but I missed that.
> 
> ...


true the vote = voter suppression. Sad episode in this great nation's history. 


paperview said:


> Here's a little background on the bitch:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sure the GOP takes care of every staffing position those brown shirts need these days. Did you see who their attorneys were?


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

Poor baby.  Waaaa.  OSHA visited us only once in 20 years, found serious violations, and even allowed us to negotiate down the fine.

Waaaaaa!

Oh, and lookie here - the big bajingle about getting visted by the FBI?

*FBI officials said Engelbrecht was not under investigation.*

"Pursuant  to FBI policy, it would not be appropriate to comment on the nature of  routine contacts made in the course of FBI business.* I would caution you  from assuming there would be an investigation simply because contact is  alleged.* Our agents talk with hundreds of people each week in the  course of our work. Often, the contact may be as simple as a phone call.  We routinely and pro-actively engage the public, and more importantly,  have an obligation to do so in matters of mutual interest," FBI Special  Agent Shauna Dunlap wrote in a response to Local 2 Investigates.


So she wasn't investigated, she was contacted.  Hmmm.  Ms. Fishy Fish...what up next?


Oh the  Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms contacted you you say.  MY!  That's curious.  Now why would they do that?


Let's see....hmmmm....




> In addition to the FBI contacts, the Engelbrecht's business was also  inspected twice by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Once in  2012 and again in 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.click2houston.com/news/h...iny/-/1735978/20456366/-/reogk1z/-/index.html

Engelbrecht = big fat lying pile of duplicitous goo.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 9, 2014)

paperview said:


> Poor baby.  Waaaa.  OSHA visited us only once in 20 years, found serious violations, and even allowed us to negotiate down the fine.
> 
> Waaaaaa!
> 
> ...



Where's the link to your quote?


----------



## Stephanie (Feb 9, 2014)

what's sad is someone who takes everything they read and swallow's it without one though about it and spreads it around as if it's the truth and all truth and nothing but the truth

then post crap like this while having an orgasm over it


> Dem Congressman takes apart tea party whiner



I call that a SHEEP and just an awful person getting their jollies over someone's misery


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Time to add one SERIOUS violation of an OSHA inspection that occurred at where I was working............

It's really serious people, using Lib talking points................

Ship yard buildings without lighted EXIT SIGNS.....................Oh the absolute abuse by the company..............

400 foot metal buildings with 60 foot openings on one side.....a small 36 door next to the opening...................with one door in back with that side being enclosed............

Emergency lighting was already in the building that lit the doors and exit paths to the doors.............

But OSHA fined the company for not having lighted exit signs on the doors........We installed exit lights and even more emergency lighting on all doors, even those not hit enough to read a dang paper at the door with the lights off to shut the OSHA prick up during the re-inspect..................

Now, there is a 60 foot by 50 foot opening in the building next to a small door...............Are you going to run out the opening or go to the door..............................

Clear BS fines from an Inspector that wanted to make a name for himself..............Only a FOOL would not run out the back door in the event of a fire.........yeah steel catching on fire.............and run into the wall instead..........Because there wasn't a lighted exit sign on the door back there and that entire area had emergency lighting directed at that exact spot........................

OSHA considered this a SERIOUS VIOLATION CAT AS WELL...................


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 9, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



Democrats call an honest election voter-suppression.

Sure, only if you're trying to suppress cheating. 

Dude, you're losing this argument. Don't bring up voter suppression because it's an automatic loser for Democrats.


----------



## RandomVariable (Feb 9, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> anyone notice how violent the left/Democrats are and cheers?
> 
> thread after thread the titles are, Democrats slams, Democrats takes someone apart, etc
> 
> ...



It is very nice to be so observant. We're here to take our country back. Obama got elected and was ready to get stuff done. 8 years of Bush had taken a pretty heavy toll on the nation. What did the Republicans say? "Let's shut down the government." It took them 5 years but they did it. So now that you understand a small part of the why stand back and watch the how. The who? We are the Democrats.


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > Poor baby.  Waaaa.  OSHA visited us only once in 20 years, found serious violations, and even allowed us to negotiate down the fine.
> ...


Duh.

Are you blind?


----------



## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



It's not Bullshit.

And you have a point. All 501 c 4 who participate in politics are breaking the law.


----------



## Stephanie (Feb 9, 2014)

RandomVariable said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > anyone notice how violent the left/Democrats are and cheers?
> ...



Yeah, you all go, Obama and your party of goons, ghouls and SICKOS has nearly 60% disapproval by the American people

charge, forward, MARCH


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 9, 2014)

Democrat Representative goes over one of the counsel's partisan hack CV's lol (only 1 1/2 mins long clip)

C-SPAN | dem rep questions tea party council on bona fides


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

O, and the Evironmental Quality inspection?


"In November of 2012 the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality  also inspected Engelbrecht Manufacturing* after officials received an  anonymous complaint.*


*"The TCEQ received a complaint against  Engelbrecht Manufacturing in October, alleging improper handling of  metal shavings. TCEQ investigated, and we are requiring the company to  obtain required storm water permits and take other actions to prevent  discharge of industrial solid waste. *



Complaints are confidential, under  Texas rule. TCEQ performs an average of 4,500 compliant investigations  per year," TCEQ spokesperson Terry Clawson wrote in a response to Local  2. "The TCEQ can state without reservation that we were not directed to  investigate Engelbrecht Manufacturing by any federal agency or any other  agency." A database maintained by the TCEQ shows this was the only  inspection of Engelbrecht Manufacturing since it began operations."


Houston-area couple questions federal, state scrutiny | News - Home



So this company has never been inspected by them either - and...that information *they wanted to make gun parts in 2009 *- and secured a federal  license to do so...


and the OSHA inspection being a multi-state *"initiative to inspect the safety of fabricated metal operations in Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana and Arkansas*"


....all should tell some of you how much brown, toxic waste shit this lady is full of.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

This is all the Dems have to report on......................

Even though there is plenty of evidence that targeting of Conservative Groups did take place..........

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jjDsGr92to]President Obama Calls IRS Targeting of Conservative, Tea Party Groups 'Outrageous' - YouTube[/ame]

Yes Mr. President.........It's Outrageous that the IRS targeted these groups......


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

If the IRS didn't do wrong then why did they apologize for it..........................

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW2DnHAOH9I]IRS Issues Apology For Targeting Tea Party & PATRIOT Groups! "Definitely 1st Amendment Concerns Here - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 9, 2014)

looks like eagle1462010 has gone into defend-at-all-costs mode for the vote suppressors


----------



## Stephanie (Feb 9, 2014)

Doesn't threads like this want to make you join the Democrat party?

laughing at Americans citizens misery

yeah, don't hold back now, rush right out

they're taking the country back don't ya know


----------



## Pennywise (Feb 9, 2014)

I saw the whole hearing live. The democraps were in lock-step flat out un-American. It's depressing to watch people who don't give two fucks for governmental abuse to citizens, but are all too happy to tow the party line with false narratives.

It was sincerely disgusting to witness. These people ought to be tried and hanged in the public square for defecating on the Constitution.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH1ZRyq-1iM]Lois Lerner Discusses Political Pressure on IRS in 2010 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 9, 2014)

I knew "true the vote" was a partisan hack, voter disenfranchisement operation from day1. Thats why they are using Establ repub counsel in the hearing  How unAmerican can those fvckers be?


----------



## RandomVariable (Feb 9, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> RandomVariable said:
> 
> 
> > Stephanie said:
> ...



Your right wing propaganda machine might be good, you might have the media following obediently behind you, but we will break through your veil of deceit and those who are behind it will be revealed.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 9, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> Doesn't threads like this want to make you join the Democrat party?
> 
> laughing at Americans citizens misery
> 
> ...



yes, "Kneel and bow down to your rulers".


----------



## Stephanie (Feb 9, 2014)

Pennywise said:


> I saw the whole hearing live. The democraps were in lock-step flat out un-American. It's depressing to watch people who don't give two fucks for governmental abuse to citizens, but are all too happy to tow the party line with false narratives.
> 
> It was sincerely disgusting to witness. These people ought to be tried and hanged in the public square for defecating on the Constitution.



I've lived sixty years with politics and this is the worst I have seen of this Democrat party and the people who are in it

these types of threads should disgust anyone with feeling's for your fellow countrymen and women

this, ALL OVER POLITICS


----------



## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> This is all the Dems have to report on......................
> 
> Even though there is plenty of evidence that targeting of Conservative Groups did take place..........
> 
> ...



And..he was wrong in that they were "targeting" lots of groups. By the way, the IRS is wrong in giving out that status to political organizations.

Of course he defers to propaganda from FOX a lot. Not sure why.


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 9, 2014)

The reason the NSA is spying on everyone is for this purpose. Anyone who protests government abuse becomes a target of the FBI, IRS, OSHA, EPA, FDA, ATF, the list goes on. Brownshirters with badges.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Feb 9, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> RandomVariable said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



How very strange, Most people i know would agree with Mr Cummings that everyone should have one vote.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 9, 2014)

well that was a GOP, dog & pony show if there ever was one. GOP doing what they do best- trying to score cheap political points w/ cherry-picked witnesses in their witch hunt hearings :zzz:


----------



## Stephanie (Feb 9, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> The reason the NSA is spying on everyone is for this purpose. Anyone who protests government abuse becomes a target of the FBI, IRS, OSHA, EPA, FDA, ATF, the list goes on. Brownshirters with badges.



YEP, and when you have sheep like the op and others who cheers this type of behavior from the government, they will just roll over us..just makes me sick

I was just reading this:
SNIP:



Ben Carson: Obama officials 'acting like Gestapo'

'We're dealing with an extremely corrupt administration'





WASHINGTON &#8211; Dr. Ben Carson, the brain surgeon turned popular political analyst, told WND Obama administration officials are &#8220;acting like the Gestapo&#8221; with the Justice Department indictment of Dinesh D&#8217;Souza coupled with the Internal Revenue Service&#8217;s political targeting of the administration&#8217;s critics.


&#8220;I believe we are dealing with an extremely corrupt administration,&#8221; he said.

Dr. Carson himself became the subject of an IRS audit after criticizing Barack Obama&#8217;s policies at the annual National Prayer Breakfast in Washington last year.

ALL of it here
Read more at Ben Carson: Obama officials ?acting like Gestapo?


----------



## Wry Catcher (Feb 9, 2014)

PredFan said:


> I don't even have to watch it to know its bull shit. Just the fact that two if the biggest left wing hacks agree on it, tells me it didn't happen that way.
> 
> Not even a nice try morons.



IMO this ^^^ post goes far beyond an example of willful ignorance, it is just plain stupid.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Feb 9, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> NTG said:
> 
> 
> > Love it! Dumbass teabagger probably didn't know what hit him.
> ...



Of course it would look like harassment to you and others ruled by emotion and biases.  However, others (Reasonable people) know that cause-and-effect reasoning is a valid form of rational logic, *but only* if the causal relationship is established. 

It is very easy to find that two things vary together and assume cause-and-effect, but this only proves correlation. It may be, for example, that both are effects of a prior common cause.  For example, that the Bush Administration failed in their duty to regulate and the Obama Administration follows the law.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Wry Catcher said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NTG said:
> ...



How quaint..................

The IRS openly attacks conservative groups under 501 status and then gets inspections and audits after 20 years without having any audits or inspections and SUDDENLY it's because the Obama Administration follows the law...............

Were you dropped on your head at birth or something.


----------



## RandomVariable (Feb 9, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> The reason the NSA is spying on everyone is for this purpose. Anyone who protests government abuse becomes a target of the FBI, IRS, OSHA, EPA, FDA, ATF, the list goes on. Brownshirters with badges.



Let's see, you don't like the NSA, FBI, IRS, OSHA, EPA, FDA, ATF. You left off someone in particular. I wonder why.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

This isn't done yet people............

Those organizations are now suing the IRS, and congressional ethics committees as a result of this ongoing investigation...............

They have proof they were targeted.

We have apologies from the IRS and investigations that have shown they abused their power.

And we have the Dems in full damage control over it.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

RandomVariable said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > The reason the NSA is spying on everyone is for this purpose. Anyone who protests government abuse becomes a target of the FBI, IRS, OSHA, EPA, FDA, ATF, the list goes on. Brownshirters with badges.
> ...



LOL

How would you like them crawling up your butt for just trying to start a TEA PARTY GROUP ..............................

They have functions that are needed...........Not the targeting of political group...........They believe they are the law and above it.................Not all of them, but those who participated on direct targeting of groups who don't agree with the current administration.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> This isn't done yet people............
> 
> Those organizations are now suing the IRS, and congressional ethics committees as a result of this ongoing investigation...............
> 
> ...



that would explain your link in the above post. Oops!!! My bad. you didn't supply any


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > This isn't done yet people............
> ...



LOL

Take a look at the evidence from the hearings of those targeted...........

Oops,,,,,,,,,,,,,it doesn't support your Cherry Picked talking points.


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> How would you like them crawling up your butt for just trying to start a TEA PARTY GROUP ..............................
> 
> ....


They weren't.

You are purposefully and willfully ignoring the information as to WHY they received inspections, not the least of which involves *Englebrecht Manufacturing having a Class 7 Federal Firearms License *they procured in 2009. 

You have a problem with  ATF doing compliance inspections of manufacturers who are licensed to make gun parts?

You have a problem with OSHA making a once in 20 year inspection that was part of a multi-state machine-parts compliance issue?  There also was a complaint about their metal filings being dumped. Hey, why the fuck should Texans care about safety anyway?

KABOOM! is more their style.  (then ask FEMA afterwards to hep them.)

It has nothing to do with their cray cray we-be-t-bags-so-we-be-targerts-imaginings. 

There's more...and it's been shown in the thread -- never mind the fact* a Texas judge has already ruled that Englebrecht's organizations are political and should not be granted tax exempt status*. 

If this were a dem pulling this shit, you'd be screaming tax fraud.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

paperview said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > How would you like them crawling up your butt for just trying to start a TEA PARTY GROUP ..............................
> ...



LOL

Union orgs get tax free status and play the same damn thing as well...........funding attack ads and promoting candidates that are PURELY POLITICAL............

How many of them had the IRS CRAWLING up their butts........................


----------



## RandomVariable (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> RandomVariable said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Is the '.' button stuck on your keyboard? There's this spray you can buy, CRC. Works great for that kind of thing.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

RandomVariable said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > RandomVariable said:
> ...



I have posted that way for a long time.............If it offends you or if you are sensitive to this......................................................I suggest you call the spelling and grammar police to issue me a ticket.......................................................k.......................


----------



## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



You should be able to link some of these organizations.


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

For the newcomers who might have missed it:

Poor baby.  Waaaa.  OSHA visited us only once in 20 years, found serious  violations, and even allowed us to negotiate down the fine.

Waaaaaa!

Oh, and lookie here - the big bajingle about getting visted by the FBI?

*FBI officials said Engelbrecht was not under investigation.*

"Pursuant  to FBI policy, it would not be appropriate to comment on the  nature of  routine contacts made in the course of FBI business.* I would caution you  from assuming there would be an investigation simply because contact is  alleged.*  Our agents talk with hundreds of people each week in the  course of our  work. Often, the contact may be as simple as a phone call.  We  routinely and pro-actively engage the public, and more importantly,   have an obligation to do so in matters of mutual interest," FBI Special   Agent Shauna Dunlap wrote in a response to Local 2 Investigates.


So she wasn't investigated, she was contacted.  Hmmm.  Ms. Fishy Fish...what up next?


Oh the  Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms contacted you you say.  MY!  That's curious.  Now why would they do that?


Let's see....hmmmm....




> In addition to the FBI contacts, the Engelbrecht's business was also   inspected twice by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Once in   2012 and again in 2013.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Houston-area couple questions federal, state scrutiny | News - Home

Engelbrecht = big fat lying pile of duplicitous goo.


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

Some more background links on these dinks:

Rob Richie: True the Vote Presents False Findings

The Ballot Cops - Mariah Blake - The Atlantic


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Houston-area couple questions federal, state scrutiny | News - Home

4 years and thousands of documents submitted with no final answer to tax free status.

Exactly why does it take 3 years to determine this status.....................

Exactly what IRS regulation requires 1,000's of documents...................

Well...................The IRS has blatantly refused to answer these questions over the years........and now suddenly the libs on this board can answer it for them.


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

More: 

"Engelbrecht is trying to connect True the Vote to the IRS improperly  singling-out Tea Party groups for review based exclusively on their  names or political views.
 But the comparison is not accurate.


 For one,* in contrast with the Tea Party groups seeking 501(c)(4)  nonprofit status, True the Vote is seeking 501(c)(3) "charity" status,  according to its website and news reports.*



 The former can engage in some political activity,* but the latter has an absolute bar against any campaign or electoral intervention.*

 Part of the reason for this restriction is that unlike donations to  (c)(4)s, contributions to 501(c)(3) organizations can be written-off as a  charitable tax deduction -- and Congress long ago decided that wealthy  donors should not get a tax break for influencing elections.


 In the case of the 501(c)(4) Tea Party groups, the IRS erred by  singling-out some groups based exclusively on their names or political  views, rather than evidence they engaged in potentially excessive  political activity.


 But for the 501(c)(3) True the Vote, *the IRS may  properly scrutinize its application if there is evidence of any campaign or political intervention. And indeed, there is significant evidence -- and True the Vote likely knows this.*"


"True the Vote," the Victim? Voter Vigilante Group Says IRS Targeted Its "Verify the Recall" Effort in Wisconsin | PR Watch


You hear that?  They want to be known as a tax-deductible CHARITY.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2013reports/201310053fr.pdf

This started the whole ball rolling...........In their investigation they found groups who had not been processed in over 3 years............

PERIOD.


----------



## RandomVariable (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> RandomVariable said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



I'm just messing with you. Touchy, touchy. That CRC is great stuff though. One can get it from the auto parts store. It is a spray that dissolves junk from electronics but does not harm the hardware itself.


----------



## GHook93 (Feb 9, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> looking for dirt?  It was an OSHA inspection you hack/s. The fed is low on Inspectors in all agencies in no small part to GOP cutting funding, no doubt. USDA is a good example. How many meat inspectors do we have for the 100's/1000's of slaughter houses in this country? VERY few relative to the number of slaughter houses.



It's a little coincidential that they all started coming in one after another. I know it's a tea partier so you don't care about this case. However, this abuse of power is reversed many times against liberals. Corrupt politicial will do whatever they can to silience their opposition. 

You should be against because silencing the opposition by government agencies hurts everyone.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

LOL

I've used CRC on electrical components, and if you buy the wrong kind it melts plastics.........Most use compressed air cans to clean a keyboard................

Just be careful when using certain types of CRC's.........they melt the plastics.


----------



## RandomVariable (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2013reports/201310053fr.pdf
> 
> This started the whole ball rolling...........In their investigation they found groups who had not been processed in over 3 years............
> 
> PERIOD.



Yes, and if one reads that documents it is clearly an internal document where the IRS audited itself and found their process flawed. There was no outside influence into the process. Blaming Obama for "yet another conspiracy" is placing the blame for misinformation on the wrong source, as usual.


----------



## RandomVariable (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> LOL
> 
> I've used CRC on electrical components, and if you buy the wrong kind it melts plastics.........Most use compressed air cans to clean a keyboard................
> 
> Just be careful when using certain types of CRC's.........they melt the plastics.



Thank you. I did not know that. I guess I have just been lucky getting the right can each time.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

RandomVariable said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2013reports/201310053fr.pdf
> ...



Which part of 3 years and thousands of documents submitted don't you understand...........

Which part of the IRS admitting cough cough they made mistakes and apologized for them don't you understand.........................

Which part of individuals being audited by the IRS after submitting tax free claims don't you understand.........

Lois Lerner admitted in a video already posted that she was told to do something about these groups spending lots of money on political ads...........She stated it in that video........................


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

*501 c 3
*
Three.  Not c 4.

True the Vote wants to be treated as a* CHARITY*.

They want people who contribute to them to able to write off their contributions as tax deductible. 

*I.R.C. § 501(c)(3) charitable organizations are prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public office (hereafter referred to as political campaign intervention).*

Here's an example of their "non-partisanship."

*"Verify the Recall" May Have Been Political Intervention*



> The group's participation in the Wisconsin "Verify the Recall" effort is one example.
> 501(c)(3) charities may conduct  activities like voter registration or get-out-the-vote drives, as long  as there is no bias against a particular candidate.
> 
> But True the Vote's  rhetoric surrounding its recall petition "verification" activities made  it clear which side they supported. Blog posts, for example, suggested "massive fraud" by Democrats in the recall petition effort and exclaimed that  "we should not believe the claims of union-supporters and anti-Walker  operatives who say that they collected more than one million signatures  on petitions to recall Governor Scott Walker."
> ...


"True the Vote," the Victim? Voter Vigilante Group Says IRS Targeted Its "Verify the Recall" Effort in Wisconsin | PR Watch

You think perhaps shit like this might lead to greater scrutiny for an org that wants to be treated as a tax deductible CHARITY?


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

*Texas Judge: True the Vote's Parent Organization is a "GOP Front Group"*

 Questions  about whether True the Vote is really a "charity" did not start with  Verify the Recall: the group's partisan roots have shown almost from the  beginning.


 A 2010 video  announcing True the Vote's launch begins with right-wing activist David  Horowitz telling the camera "Republicans have to win by at least three  percent in order to win an election," since Democrats are so likely to  cast fraudulent votes.


*The video, which features white activists warning of rampant voter  fraud, also featured an image of an African-American woman holding a  sign that had been doctored to say "I only got to vote once." In the original photograph, the sign read "don't mess with my vote." (The image was later cut from the video).*


 A few months after the video and True the Vote's launch, in the  November 2010 elections, the group dispatched its "poll watchers" to  districts in Harris County, Texas where most voters were  African-American or Latino. 



They found no hard evidence of intentional  voter fraud, but the poll watchers did draw accusations of voter  intimidation from election officials,* with volunteers "hovering" behind  people as they cast their ballot, "getting into election worker's faces," and blocking or disrupting lines of voters.*


 After those elections, the Civil Rights division of the U.S.  Department of Justice launched an investigation into the group and its  alleged voter intimidation efforts."


"True the Vote," the Victim? Voter Vigilante Group Says IRS Targeted Its "Verify the Recall" Effort in Wisconsin | PR Watch


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 9, 2014)

paperview said:


> For the newcomers who might have missed it:
> 
> Poor baby.  Waaaa.  OSHA visited us only once in 20 years, found serious  violations, and even allowed us to negotiate down the fine.
> 
> ...



^ that 

\thread end


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

"Based on its 2010 True the Vote voter intimidation activities and close  relationship with the state Republican Party, a Texas judge called the King Street Patriots a"GOP front group" that had illegally provided in-kind donations to the state Republican Party."


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Lois Lerner approved exemption for Obama brother's 'charity' | The Daily Caller

Tax-exempt Obama Foundation doesn't exist at listed address | The Daily Caller

Lois lerner approved this tax free within a month while all of this was going on...........According to these articles.....................

Address shown as a PO Box.................

Amazing isn't it.


----------



## RandomVariable (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> RandomVariable said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...



For starters, how any of that has anything to do with the Obama administration.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Contact the Barack H. Obama Foundation

LOL

There site shows it's a charity org which sites the same address to the post office Box..............

Shows it's a 501 c(3) org on it's web site............

This is getting amusing.............Time to google map the address.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

RandomVariable said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > RandomVariable said:
> ...



Absolutely nothing if his job is to only play golf.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Ha Ha He He He................

Here's the recorded site location...........The UPS Store and Mail Boxes Etc............

LOL 

The UPS Store - #0823, ALEXANDRIA, VA - The UPS Store Home


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

So get a load of this.  Engelbrecht wants to be deemed  a CHARITY - and people who want to give money to True the Vote get a tax deduction.

IRS rules are clear on the line of no political engagement (as I posted above) --

So, here in this case, a person could contribute to the Republican Party  -- tax freeeee!

Golden, innit?

Nonpartisan? True the Vote gave $5,000 to Republican State Leadership Committee



> Amidst the media coverage and controversy, True the Vote and its  leader, Catherine Engelbrecht, have been vehement on one point: True the  Vote is "nonpartisan."
> 
> In a recent New York Times story, Engelbrecht insisted  the group's work had no partisan political aims: It is not about party  or politics; it is about principle." In its press releases, True the  Vote describes itself as a "nonpartisan election integrity organization."
> 
> ...


----------



## Howey (Feb 9, 2014)

WTF is wrong with the idiots on here? 

True The Vote is run by the Cock Brothers! Of course they're crooked.


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

*The Ballot Cops*

                                Thirty years ago, the Republican National Committee was  accused of violating the Voting Rights Act and ordered to cease its  &#8220;ballot security&#8221; efforts. Now an organization called True the Vote  wants to pick up where the RNC left off, by building a nationwide army  to root out voter fraud&#8212;or, some would say, to suppress voter turnout.
===============
This is the kind of shit True the Vote pulls:



> Two weeks later, on Election Day, poll watchers streamed into poor black  and Latino precincts around Racine, hunting for evidence that people  were cheating. They didn&#8217;t find much, though D&#8217;Abbraccio later claimed  otherwise, apparently in a bid for a recount in a state-Senate race.
> 
> (Racine&#8217;s sheriff investigated the allegations but found no evidence of  fraud.) Reports of voter intimidation, however, abounded. Carolyn  Castore, the Wisconsin election coordinator for the League of Women  Voters, told me that her organization received more than 50 reports from  Racine-area voters *complaining that True the Vote volunteers had  hovered over registration tables and aggressively challenged voters&#8217;  eligibility.* (In previous years, it had fielded only half a dozen or so  complaints about observers.)
> 
> * Other reports had poll watchers tailing  vans that were transporting voters to the polls, snapping photos of  voters&#8217; license plates, even directing voters to the wrong polling  places*.



The Ballot Cops - Mariah Blake - The Atlantic


----------



## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Lois Lerner approved exemption for Obama brother's 'charity' | The Daily Caller
> 
> Tax-exempt Obama Foundation doesn't exist at listed address | The Daily Caller
> 
> ...



You keep going on about Lois Lerner.

She was hired during the Bush administration.

You do know that right?


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

http://www.rottenacorn.com/downloads/060728_badSeed.pdf

Lets look at getting out the vote Dem style..............

Rotten acorn conducting voter fraud across the nation, and are a get out the vote arm of UNIONS............

Tax free baby..........................Of course they are ok, because they agree with the current administration...........


----------



## RandomVariable (Feb 9, 2014)

RandomVariable said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > The reason the NSA is spying on everyone is for this purpose. Anyone who protests government abuse becomes a target of the FBI, IRS, OSHA, EPA, FDA, ATF, the list goes on. Brownshirters with badges.
> ...



Also what is very telling is who you did include; 

OSHA - Occupational Safety and Health Administration
EPA - Environmental Protection Agency
FDA - Food and Drug Administration
I have given at least partial explains for why the NSA, FBI, and ATF are on the list. I can give a more complete explanation here if you like. My guess is you probably would not like.

The rightie's masters are stupid in how obvious they are. Since the Democrats have to first get through all their zombie minions I guess the zombie minions' masters are safe, for the time being.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Lois Lerner did this under the Obama Administration.............

Her boss happened to be Obama.........................................

Timeline- IRS Official Lois Lerner Arranged The Planted Question That Set Off Whole IRS Scandal | Opinion - Conservative

and now she's in charge of the IRS for the ACA..........

But that's all about Bush too.


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> http://www.rottenacorn.com/downloads/060728_badSeed.pdf
> 
> Lets look at getting out the vote Dem style..............
> 
> ...


 ACORN. Great, eagle eye is pulling out 2006 shit now of an org that no longer exists.



Talk about desperate.


----------



## Sallow (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Lois Lerner did this under the Obama Administration.............
> 
> Her boss happened to be Obama.........................................
> 
> ...



Obama's not her boss.

She has no contact from him nor is the office of the Presidency involved with the IRS in that capacity.


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Lois Lerner did this under the Obama Administration.............
> 
> Her boss happened to be Obama.........................................
> 
> ...


Er, Lois Lerner is no longer with the IRS.

Hitting 'em out of the ball part today I see.


----------



## Darkwind (Feb 9, 2014)

Let Me guess...the woman probably handed the Democrat his ass, and dickweeddotcom thinks he schooled a Tea Party person.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

Complaint Ohio NVRA

True the Vote won this case in Ohio.............

Forcing Ohio to fix it's broken voter registration records............

Of keeping people on the rolls who are no longer eligible to vote as they've moved or have passed away.................

Trying to make elections honest.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 9, 2014)

paperview said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > Lois Lerner did this under the Obama Administration.............
> ...



Yes she retired..........but is a central player in the whole thing............

But of course she can use the 5th Amendment when this thing goes to the courts in the law suits that are pending.


----------



## SFC Ollie (Feb 9, 2014)

It truly amazes me how the left can take a charge of the IRS singling out Right leaning organizations into a voter fraud subject.....

By the way what was that organization in the news about? You know those guys who were against the voter ID and asked the protesters to bring an ID.......

Really?????????

Good lord i love politics.........


----------



## mudwhistle (Feb 9, 2014)

RandomVariable said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > The reason the NSA is spying on everyone is for this purpose. Anyone who protests government abuse becomes a target of the FBI, IRS, OSHA, EPA, FDA, ATF, the list goes on. Brownshirters with badges.
> ...



I didn't list all of the agencies that fall under the President. The DoD, the DoJ. Obama is busy replacing his generals with perfumed, politically-correct deskjockeys, and he has his ACLU lawyers in the Justice Department raising hell with just about anyone that pisses him off. The FBI has almost completely ended their anti-terrorist training program. 

We are in grave danger because of this administration. He considers American conservatives to be a graver threat than Muslim terrorists.


----------



## HenryBHough (Feb 9, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> We are in grave danger because of this administration. He considers American conservatives to be a graver threat than Muslim terrorists.



To Him they may well be.  Muslin terrorists are not normally given to eating their own.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 9, 2014)

paperview said:


> "Based on its 2010 True the Vote voter intimidation activities and close  relationship with the state Republican Party, a Texas judge called the King Street Patriots a"GOP front group" that had illegally provided in-kind donations to the state Republican Party."





paperview said:


> So get a load of this.  Engelbrecht wants to be deemed  a CHARITY - and people who want to give money to True the Vote get a tax deduction.
> 
> IRS rules are clear on the line of no political engagement (as I posted above) --
> 
> ...



how can they be so brazen?


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > "Based on its 2010 True the Vote voter intimidation activities and close  relationship with the state Republican Party, a Texas judge called the King Street Patriots a"GOP front group" that had illegally provided in-kind donations to the state Republican Party."
> ...


I know huh?

Stupidity or they just figure the Koch brothers have their ass.

Could be either -- or both.


----------



## peach174 (Feb 9, 2014)

She paid for all of those violations and did so in less that 3 weeks.
Yet the IRS audited her many times, the FBI visited her 6 times and what is the BATF doing going in there?
Why in the hell did they try to get her on any violations on Alcohol, tobacco or firearms? The place is a machinery shop.
This was a witch hunt.
I can see why OSHA and the EPA came in and inspected her place.
But to be continual audited by the IRS and then send in the FBI not once but 6 times and then have a totally unrelated agency, the BATF come in, this is an overkill people.
If this had happened to any 501c4 lefty groups under Bush, the media and protesters would be out in the streets screaming and demanding justice be taken. The media would be reporting it 24/7.


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

peach174 said:


> She paid for all of those violations and did so in less that 3 weeks.
> Yet the IRS audited her many times, the FBI visited her 6 times and what is the BATF doing going in there?
> Why in the hell did they try to get her on any violations on Alcohol, tobacco or firearms? The place is a machinery shop.
> This was a witch hunt.
> ...


This has all been discussed in the thread.

For the newcomers who might have missed it:

Poor baby.  Waaaa.  OSHA visited us only once in 20 years, found serious   violations, and even allowed us to negotiate down the fine.

Waaaaaa!

Oh, and lookie here - the big bajingle about getting visted by the FBI?

*FBI officials said Engelbrecht was not under investigation.*

"Pursuant  to FBI policy, it would not be appropriate to comment on the   nature of  routine contacts made in the course of FBI business.* I would caution you  from assuming there would be an investigation simply because contact is  alleged.*   Our agents talk with hundreds of people each week in the  course of  our  work. Often, the contact may be as simple as a phone call.  We   routinely and pro-actively engage the public, and more importantly,    have an obligation to do so in matters of mutual interest," FBI Special    Agent Shauna Dunlap wrote in a response to Local 2 Investigates.


So she wasn't investigated, she was contacted.  Hmmm.  Ms. Fishy Fish...what up next?


Oh the  Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms contacted you you say.  MY!  That's curious.  Now why would they do that?


Let's see....hmmmm....


   Quote:
 In  addition to the FBI contacts, the Engelbrecht's business was also    inspected twice by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Once in    2012 and again in 2013. 



*Engelbrecht said she and her husband were  considering diversifying the business and in 2009 the company secured a  federal license to manufacture gun parts.* However, Engelbrecht said the  company has not yet begun manufacturing those parts.


*An ATF  spokesperson told Local 2 since the business received its license in  2009, the Bureau needed to conduct an inspection within a three year  period, as is routine for other similar businesses*. 

While prohibited  from discussing the specifics of an inspection, an ATF   spokesperson said  the 2013 inspection was either a separate  inspection  or a follow-up to  the first inspection because deficiencies  were  noted. However, the ATF  said a follow-up inspection would be of  an  "educational, not punitive"  nature.


Houston-area couple questions federal, state scrutiny | News - Home

Engelbrecht = big fat lying pile of duplicitous goo.


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

> If this had happened to any 501c4 lefty groups under Bush



It happened.  NAACP, for starters.

2. This group is applying for CHARITY status.  *501c3.  CHARITY.  *

Whole set of diff. rules that apply -- most significant, *no* political affiliations with candidates / political campaign, etc...


----------



## peach174 (Feb 9, 2014)

The left 501c4 groups have been doing this for many years also.

70 percent of *America's Families First's *2010 expenditures went to grants to five social welfare nonprofits. Four spent money on ads supporting Democrats or criticizing Republicans, including one group that put almost half of its expenditures into political ads.

A group called *Economy Forward* spent $173,470 on ads in March 2010 praising Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat, according to a transcript of the ad and public filings with eight TV stations in Nevada. That's almost 99 percent of the total the group told the IRS it spent that year.

*America's Families First *told the IRS in late 2009 that it would spend 50 percent of its time on its website and emails, 30 percent on conferences and 20 percent on grants. 

There's no sign America's Families First sponsored any conferences, however. The group's website consists of a photograph of a family holding hands and a single paragraph of text. Its tax return does not specify how much time the group spent on grants, but most of its expenditures were grants to other liberal groups. 

Although America's Families First's IRS application said the group would "be funded by contributions from individuals only," tax records show much of its money came from other sources. 

The group received $2 million from the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, or PhRMA, the pharmaceutical industry's main trade group, and an additional $3.15 million from the National Education Association teachers union weeks before the election. The contributions became public in late 2011, when PhRMA and the NEA disclosed them. 

*America's Families First's leadership includes Greg Speed, now the treasurer for Priorities USA Action, the super PAC devoted to re-electing Obama. *

*The Women's Voices Women *Vote Action Fund, for example, told the FEC it spent $250,000 on ads calling for people to vote for a Democrat for Senate in Maine, but it told the IRS it spent nothing on politics. Asked about the disparity, an official with the nonprofit said it was an inadvertent error and the group would amend its tax return.
*No action was taken for this lefty group*.


Another group,* CSS Action Fund*, gave a grant of $175,865 to Economy Forward for "promoting health care reform." Economy Forward spent almost all of this on ads promoting Sen. Harry Reid's help for the economy; health care reform 

Treasury releases 501(c)(4) regulation proposal In November, the Treasury Department issued proposed regulations to provide guidance and more definitive rules on political activity for 501(c)(4) organizations. The proposal would provide that the promotion of social welfare does not include &#8220;candidate-related political activity,&#8221; which would include communications expressly advocating for a clearly identified political candidate and communications made within 60 days of a general election, or within 30 days of a primary election, that identifies a candidate or political party, among other stipulations. Also included in the new definition of candidate-related political activity are voter registration events and &#8220;get out the vote&#8221; drives. Treasury and the IRS have requested guidance and public comment by February 27 on several elements of the proposed regulations, including on the meaning of &#8220;primarily&#8221; engaging in social welfare activities, how the standard should be measured, and whether these rules should also apply to 501(c)(5) and (c)(6) organizations - See more at: Political Activity of 501(c)(4) Organizations | Independent Sector

In the last hearing it was found out that Louis Lerner was helping to make these rules and regulation.
None of these rules apply to 501c4 that already exist.
Thus making the Democrat 501c4 to still be able to advocate for the Democrats.
It effectively stifles the new right wing 501c4 (that is if they are every able to get them).
Yes it also applies to any new lift wing groups, but they are many and I mean many left wing 501c4 that have been around for many years and they can still be able to get away with political lobbing and Democratic political ads.

They both do it and they are allowed to do it.
501c4 Rules
501(c)(4) organizations may inform the public on controversial subjects and attempt to influence legislation relevant to its program[43] and, unlike 501(c)(3) organizations, they may also participate in political campaigns and elections, as long as its primary activity is the promotion of social welfare.[44] The tax exemption for 501(c)(4) organizations applies to most of their operations, but contributions may be subject to gift tax, and income spent on political activities &#8211; generally the advocacy of a particular candidate in an election &#8211; is taxable.[45] An "action" organization generally qualifies as a 501(c)(4) organization.[46] An "action" organization is one whose activities substantially include, or are exclusively,[47] direct lobbying or grass roots lobbying related to advocacy for or against legislation or proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation that is related to its purpose.[48] A 501(c)(4) organization may directly or indirectly support or oppose a candidate for public office as long as such activities are not a substantial amount of its activities.

But now that Tea Party groups are starting up it has now become a political witch hunt of which the IRS said that they did target these groups.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Wry Catcher said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



The point of my thread was that reasonable people ...


----------



## peach174 (Feb 9, 2014)

paperview said:


> > If this had happened to any 501c4 lefty groups under Bush
> 
> 
> 
> ...




All NAACP Units have been designated 501(c)(4) organizations

Only the National Office is a 501(c)(3) organization

Cincinnati Black Blog: NAACP National: Cincinnati Branch is 501(c)(4)


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

peach174 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > > If this had happened to any 501c4 lefty groups under Bush
> ...


??

*True the Vote wants 501 c 3 status.
*
Three.  Not c 4.

True the Vote wants to be treated as a* CHARITY*.

They want people who contribute to them to able to write off their contributions as tax deductible. 

*I.R.C. § 501(c)(3) charitable organizations are prohibited from  directly or indirectly participating in or intervening in any political  campaign on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public  office (hereafter referred to as political campaign intervention).*

Here's an example of their "non-partisanship."

*"Verify the Recall" May Have Been Political Intervention*



> The group's participation in the Wisconsin "Verify the Recall" effort is one example.
> 501(c)(3) charities may conduct  activities like voter registration or get-out-the-vote drives, as long  as there is no bias against a particular candidate.
> 
> But True the Vote's  rhetoric surrounding its recall petition  "verification" activities made  it clear which side they supported. Blog posts, for example, suggested "massive fraud" by Democrats in the recall petition effort and exclaimed that   "we should not believe the claims of union-supporters and anti-Walker   operatives who say that they collected more than one million signatures   on petitions to recall Governor Scott Walker."
> ...


"True the Vote," the Victim? Voter Vigilante Group Says IRS Targeted Its "Verify the Recall" Effort in Wisconsin | PR Watch

You think perhaps shit like this might lead to greater scrutiny for an org that wants to be treated as a tax deductible CHARITY?


----------



## JohnL.Burke (Feb 9, 2014)

It has already been established that the IRS targeted conservative groups. That's not the debate. The debate is rather the IRS targeted conservative groups because of a political agenda or what Obama calls "bonehead decisions". To find out the answer to this we must investigate. Those who don't believe in investigating an already established occurrence (targeting conservative groups) to find the REASONS of the occurrence have saturated their natural born curiosity and an analytical thought process with a hyper- partisan progressive rationalization.
  It's the same hyper-partisan progressive rationalization that allows a Secretary Of State to say ,"What does it matter..." when asked who killed four Americans in Benghazi.
  It's the same hyper-partisan progressive rationalization that allows an American president tell people they can keep their doctor and healthcare plan when he knows otherwise.
  There are of course many examples of this hyper-partisan progressive rationalization emanating from this White House. Wouldn't it be nice if we got accountability, transparency and unbroken promises instead?


----------



## paperview (Feb 9, 2014)

True The Vote Forged Signatures To Get Observers At Ohio Polls



> The FCBOE met today and determined that True the Vote had likely  falsified the forms submitted for general election observers.
> 
> The new  observer forms, filed over the past few days by True the Vote  representative (and Hilliard Tea Party Member) Jan Loar, used candidate  signatures copied from a previous set of forms filed in early October.
> 
> ...


----------



## Wry Catcher (Feb 9, 2014)

eagle1462010 said:


> Lois Lerner approved exemption for Obama brother's 'charity' | The Daily Caller
> 
> Tax-exempt Obama Foundation doesn't exist at listed address | The Daily Caller
> 
> ...



The Daily Caller is a politically conservative[1][2] *news and opinion* website based in Washington, D.C., United States. Founded by Tucker Carlson, a libertarian conservative[3][4] political pundit, and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney, The Daily Caller launched on January 11, 2010. In late 2012, it was reported that the site had quadrupled its page view and total audience and had become profitable without ever buying an advertisement for itself.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Caller

Maybe another source might confirm the allegations made by Tucker Carlson.  Reading the link it was obvious how the use of language was geared to provide red meant to the right wing base.  It's no wonder you hold the beliefs you do.


----------



## Wry Catcher (Feb 9, 2014)

Senator Bob Menendez prostitution controversy and FBI investigation 

From:  The Daily Caller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_In an article titled "Women: Sen. Bob Menendez paid us for sex in the Dominican Republic",[20] The Daily Caller reported that New Jersey senator Bob Menendez had allegedly paid two prostitutes to have sex with him during a stay at a Dominican Republic resort. The report included videotaped interviews with the women. The allegation came five days before the 2012 New Jersey senate election. News organizations such as the New York Times, ABC News and the New York Post declined to publish the allegations, viewing them as unsubstantiated and lacking credibility.[21][22][23]

The FBI investigated the allegations and found no evidence to substantiate them.[24][25] Subsequently, one of the women who accused Menendez stated that she had been paid to falsely implicate the senator, whom she had never met.[21][25] Menendez's office described the allegations as "manufactured" by a right-wing blog as a politically motivated smear.[26] On March 18, police in the Dominican Republic announced that three women had acknowledged they had been paid $300&#8211;425 each to lie about having had sex with Menendez.[27]

*According to a spokesperson in the Dominican government, the women in question had been paid to make the false claims in question by someone who identified himself as a Daily Caller employee. *The Daily Caller issued a statement denying the claims.[28] The Daily Caller denied having paid any individuals for any participation in the stories about Menendez, and detailed the discrepancies between the new reports from Dominican authorities and the original interviews the outlet had conducted.[29][30][31] The Washington Post was extremely critical of the Caller's "eagerness to publish completely unsubstantiated allegations", concluding that the Caller was "ducking accountability".[32][33][34]_


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 9, 2014)

goes to show that eXtreme rw groups will brazenly claim innocence when caught breaking the law. Sad


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 10, 2014)

Sallow said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> > I* applaud Congressman Issa and Jordans request of the Internal Revenue Service to withdraw a proposed regulation limiting political speech by nonprofit organizations.* That action should be taken quickly and without fail, because if allowed to pass, these new regulations will effectively codify into law the very practices that bring me here today. If those regulations pass, non-profit organizations across the country will be destroyed. No American, regardless of their political affiliation, should support the silencing of political speech.
> ...



i thought it was a 501c4 which is for political fundraising


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 10, 2014)

Sallow said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Barb said:
> ...



hi sallow
i thought there was a conflict of interest
where barbara bosserman appointed to head the investigation 
donated the maximum amount to obamas campaign
and selectively omitted to interview Englebrecht, wouldnt that help explain why not a smidgeon of corruption was found

wouldnt that be a violation of the code of ethics for govt service
to refrain from any business that might interfere with the
conscientious duties of ones office

*"V. Never discriminate unfairly by the dispensing of special favors or privileges to anyone, whether for remuneration or not; and never accept, for himself or herself or for family members, favors or benefits under circumstances which might be construed by reasonable persons as influencing the performance of governmental duties.

"VI. Make no private promises of any kind binding upon the duties of office, since a Governmental employee has no private word which can be binding on public duty.

"VII. Engage in no business with the Government, either directly or indirectly, which is inconsistent with the conscientious performance of governmental duties."*


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 10, 2014)

paperview said:


> Here's the OSHA report: https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/establishment.inspection_detail?id=525458.015
> 
> 10 serious violations.



i'm happy to run this report past an OSHA consultant who routinely negotiates
down the fines for companies especially first reports as long as these are corrected

usually the govt is supportive of small businesses willing to correct first time notices

only if there is an injury or deadly accident, you can't negotiate that
but things like protective gear and hazcom can be remedied easily
there were no incidents that triggered this inspection so there is room to negotiate

if you try to make a political statement and refuse to comply with authority
they may impose the top fine to put you in your place
it looks like this couple fully complied and may not have tried to negotiate

here it seems there was more political adversity
in trying to find fault with this couple, going after all their
points of contact using every agency available to inspect them

are you saying that is coincidence or normal

and the questions were clearly overburdensome and overreaching
who the hell asks their future plans to speak and meet over the next year
seems suspiciously excessive to me

but i'm just a reasonable person who worked for an OSHA consultant
what do i know about excess probing or targeting that seems out of line
and i'm a democrat so i should be jumping for joy
not siding with evil republicans claiming victimhood for no reason at all


----------



## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

emilynghiem said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > eagle1462010 said:
> ...


The group in question here was applying for a 501c*3* -- A CHARITY-type organization -- and most definitely not for electioneering and political fundraising.



> According to the Internal Revenue Service Code, 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) organizations are nonprofit organizations that are exempt  from paying federal income tax. 501(c)(3) organizations are either a  public charity, private foundation or private operating foundation with  open membership whereas 501(c)(4) organizations are civic leagues or  associations operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare or  local associations of employees with limited membership.
> 
> 
> When it comes to lobbying and political activity, 501(c)(3)  organizations can appeal directly to legislative bodies and  representatives and may support issue-based legislation. However, they  must notify the IRS of their intent to lobby by filing form 5768,  which formally informs the federal government that one has elected to  use the expenditure test to have the organization's lobbying activity  measured. Under this test, lobbying capacity is typically limited to  spending less than 5 to 20% of the organizational budget on lobbying  activities, depending on the size of your organization.
> ...


The difference between 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) organizations | NJ.com

Part of the problem with the regulations and some of the IRS confusion / fuckupedness - is that 501 c*4*'s cannot engage in political activities, as  their primary purpose

This site here has an even better breakdown:
501(c)4 vs 501(c)3 vs 527

"One thing that is abundantly clear after reading the recently released redacted IRS audit: *almost no one can confidently explain, let alone define, the specifics of the 501(c)4 designation.*"


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

emilynghiem said:


> it looks like this couple fully complied and may not have tried to negotiate


They negotiated it down by more than a third.


> here it seems there was more political adversity
> in trying to find fault with this couple, going after all their
> points of contact using every agency available to inspect them


*sigh* Keep reading the thread.  Please.


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

The above article link really gives a good explanation for some of what went down in this whole IRS mess...

I'm adding more here, as I think it is really helpful:



> <snip>
> While the 501(c)4 existed for years in this hybrid state, it appears  that for most of its history, few organizations exploited the  designations political potential. That all changed in the lead up to,  and aftermath of the Supreme Courts 2010 _Citizen__s United_ ruling.
> 
> By the time of the ruling, many major political players, including  Karl Rove, had formed 501(c)4 organizations, and 501(c)4 groups were  beginning to take over a role that 527&#8242;s (such as 2004&#8242;s Swift Vets and POWs for Truth) had played in previous elections. _Citizens United_  firmly established that any legislative attempts to regulate donations  to 501(c)4&#8242;seither by imposing limits OR forcing the publishing of  donor informationwere violations of First Amendment rights.
> ...


501(c)4 vs 501(c)3 vs 527


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## Stephanie (Feb 10, 2014)

This is what he was calling for when he said this: and you people cheer him unleashing this government on the people in this country...

[ame=http://youtu.be/Tt2yGzHfy7s]Obama Civilian Security - YouTube[/ame]


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## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> the GOP cherry-picked witness, unsurprisingly had Jay Seculow as council lol. Could they be any more transparent?
> 
> 4 min clip:
> 
> C-SPAN | Democrat owns TeaParty vote suppressor (sp.)



This woman has been paraded by the Teabaggers for months as someone who was a "victim" of government retaliation, when if fact, OSHA found pretty serious violations at her shop.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2014)

Barb said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NTG said:
> ...



Well, not exactly, I worked at companies where OSHA popped by when ex-employees ratted them out.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> NTG said:
> 
> 
> > Love it! Dumbass teabagger probably didn't know what hit him.
> ...



OSHA doesn't have to get management's permission to interview employees and frankly, it wouldn't be effective at its job if it didn't.  

Yes, all the problems could have been corrected with PPE, so why wasn't she providing the PPE and why wasn't she enforcing the rules.  Her own testimony was that she nor her husband were on site when OSHA visited.  

Here's the thing. I deal with small manufacturers all the time as a buyer.  I see a lot more bad shops than I see good shops.  

What is probably more likely, she pissed off an employee and the employee dropped a dime on her to OSHA.


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

The "she said that OSHA showed up without warning" is really, really a stupid line.

*The whole point *is to show up without warning.  Duh.

In fact - it is against the law to give warning.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2014)

To be fair, though, there really is nothing scarier than a visit by OSHA. 






_*"Nobody ever Expects the Occupational Safety and Health Adminstration!" *_


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 10, 2014)

Some of these arguments against Engelbrecht might make some sense if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't just Osha that investigated Engelbrecht but also the FBI, IRS, ATF.


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> Some of these arguments against Engelbrecht might make some sense if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't just Osha that investigated Engelbrecht but also the FBI, IRS, ATF.


Let's get this straight...this is a quick run down of the Catherine     Engelbrecht True the Vote fiasco.

*OSHA* visited them only once in 20 years, found serious     violations at their machine shop, and even allowed them to negotiate     down the fine.
     The shop was visited  because  it was "part of an OSHA initiative to     inspect fabricated metal products manufacturers in Arkansas,     Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas and New Mexico." Fact checking Ron Johnson 'victim' Catherine Engelbrecht's OSHA claims : 

*FBI *- Called her, in 2010 --- regarding a suspected domestic terrorist       at one of their King Street Patriots meetings.  2010. No FBI     investigation on them. An inquiry. Even SHE admits that. And it had     to do with her King Street Patriots arm, not True the Vote. 

     "Five months after she filed for 501(c)(4) status for KSP,     Engelbrecht says the FBI Domestic Terrorism Unit called her about     one of the people who had attended a KSP group meeting. Five months     after that, the FBI called her again to ask &#8220;_how we were doing_?&#8221;     A month later on June 2011, she received another FBI general     inquiry, which was followed by two more in November and December."
Local Tea Party founder claims she was targeted by several federal agencies | Fox News

It should be noted as well -- just before this a mysterious fire in a warehouse   destroyed all of the voting equipment and machines in Houston, for 800 polling places - just before the election. Whether that had anything to do with it, not known.

*BATF*: In* 2009* the company secured a federal license to     manufacture gun parts. Yes, a *Class 7 Federal Firearms License.*
     An ATF spokesperson told Local 2 since the business received its     license in 2009, *the Bureau needed to conduct an inspection       within a three year period,* as is routine for other similar     businesses. 

*TCEQ*: (Texas Commission on Environmental Quality also     inspected)  Engelbrecht Manufacturing* after officials received an       anonymous complaint.*"The TCEQ received a complaint     against Engelbrecht Manufacturing in October*, alleging         improper handling of metal shavings. TCEQ investigated, and we         are requiring the company to obtain required storm water permits         and take other actions to prevent discharge of industrial solid         waste.  * "The TCEQ can state without reservation that we     were not directed to investigate Engelbrecht Manufacturing by any     federal agency or any other agency." A database maintained by the     TCEQ shows this was the only inspection of Engelbrecht Manufacturing     since it began operations." Houston-area couple questions federal, state       scrutiny | News - Home

     Considering* she lied about the* *OSHA* findings (claimed     they were not serious) -- and part of her objection was _they       visited her unannounced_ (duh, the point of an OSHA audit is to     come unannounced) *she lied about the **AFT*     (their federal license to manufacture gun parts required a visit!),     *she lied about the TCEQ* (made it sound like it was not     resultant due to a complaint of their handling of metal shavings and     required them to take care of industrial waste) -- *She lied       about the non partisan nature of her CHARITY organization*     (gave $$ to RNC offshoot) and *lied about True the Vote being in       favor of Early Voting* (see the testimony from the most recent     hearing) -- how do we know Catherine Engelbrecht isn't lying about     the IRS personal audits she says she is subject to?  It could have     been just a phone call about a number. It could have been she was actually cheating the government. She's been proven to be less than honest.

     But we'll never know.  She won't tell us, and the IRS can't say.

     We CAN say -- the IRS was absolutely doing their duty to scrutinize     this group that was seeking CHARITY (501c3) status.


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## SFC Ollie (Feb 10, 2014)

paperview said:


> The "she said that OSHA showed up without warning" is really, really a stupid line.
> 
> *The whole point *is to show up without warning.  Duh.
> 
> In fact - it is against the law to give warning.



I'm afraid not.




> Normally, OSHA conducts inspections without advanced notice. Employers have a right to require compliance Officers to obtain an inspection warrant before entering the worksite.



https://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/data_General_Facts/factsheet-inspections.pdf


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 10, 2014)

LOL!  I never meant to imply that the government agencies didn't have any other stated excuses to harass Engbrecht other than " We don't like you tea baggers trying to clean up elections".
  I'm not going to be as liberal with the word "lie" as you are but I find that Engelbrecht's situation should be investigated as well as other conservative groups who were targeted by the IRS. I think it's only fair. Especially since the IRS has already said that it targeted conservative groups (even though they say it was an accident or something).


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

SFC Ollie said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > The "she said that OSHA showed up without warning" is really, really a stupid line.
> ...


You didn't refute what I said.


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> LOL!  I never meant to imply that the government agencies didn't have any other stated excuses to harass Engbrecht other than " We don't like you tea baggers trying to clean up elections".
> I'm not going to be as liberal with the word "lie" as you are but I find that Engelbrecht's situation should be investigated as well as other conservative groups who were targeted by the IRS. I think it's only fair. Especially since the IRS has already said that it targeted conservative groups (even though they say it was an accident or something).


As was shown in the thread, (which I'm sure you haven't taken the time to read, nor would you care) Engelbrecht has a history of deception and duplicity.  

Don't you think it strange Engelbrecht would make such a to-do about being visited by the ATF - as if it was some big plot to "get her" -- when the company applied for a Federal Class 7 Firearms license to manufacture gun parts -- and a visit is* required*?

But no, we get people following her bait whistle going OMGADZ! The ATF visited her???

And the OSHA? And FBI --they too were explained, but no...it's a Glenn Beck chalkline turning it into some con-spear-o-see to "get 'er!"

I stated earlier I am only too happy to have the story of Engelbrecht and the other tea party groups exposed  -- as well as ALL tax exempt orgs.  Left and Right.

 I have been following the shenanigans of True the Vote for years now, and nothing would please me more than to have people digging around her stories to show how she lies and is working to undermine our system.

Anyone who does that should exposed.


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 10, 2014)

I see you're going to gloss over the actual details of the case while accusing everyone who questions the timing as being conspiracy theorists. Nothing new.


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## SFC Ollie (Feb 10, 2014)

paperview said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



Twist the words anyway you want if the owners knew they were there they could have requested a warrant before OSHA could enter their property.... That does not sound like it's illegal to notify anyone ahead of time....


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

SFC Ollie said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...


From the hearing:

CONNOLLY: &#8220;Well, I would just note for the record, Mrs Englebrecht and  Mr Sekulow, because we're so concerned about the law here, and making  sure that there are no violations of the law. *Are you aware that it's  actually illegal for the Department of Labor's OSHA to give advance  notice when it does inspections? &#8212; That's actually a matter of law.&#8221;*

ENGLEBRECHT:  &#8220;I was not aware of that. But I'm not contending that they should have  given us advance notice. I'm only observing &#8212;&#8221;

CONNOLLY: &#8220;But you  complained about it. You complained that you didn't get advance notice,  and you just said you were concerned that neither your husband &#8212; I  understand the concern &#8212; *but they can't check in advance to see whether  you'll be there.&#8221;*

ENGLEBRECHT: &#8220;Nor did we do anything to try and discourage that process even though we weren't on premises.&#8221;

CONNOLLY:  &#8220;And I absolutely take that at face value. But it's a huge leap then,  given that, to conclude that someone's out to get you, Mrs Englebrecht.  That there's any political motivation whatsoever with OSHA following  it's standard operating procedures.&#8221;

https://grabien.com/file.php?id=13823&searchorder=date


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## Dot Com (Feb 10, 2014)

SFC Ollie said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



it would defeat the whole premise of an "inspection" to notify the shop before hand. Does the Fire Marshall call ahead to notify people that they're going to be inspected?


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## SFC Ollie (Feb 10, 2014)

paperview said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



So the congressman is wrong. I posted straight from OSHA's page. It wouldn't be the first time some congressman was wrong, no matter what party they belong to.


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## SFC Ollie (Feb 10, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



The employer can request a warrant.....That is right from OSHAs page.... Not difficult to understand.


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

SFC Ollie said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...


First, as she said, she had no objection to them being there, nor would have.  Did you miss that?

Second, Him saying it's  actually illegal for the Department of Labor's OSHA to give advance  notice when it does inspections is not incorrect.*

T*he process would simply be delayed shortly as they can come up with one pert quick - there is a very low bar. 

Oh!  And look, right out of the OSHA manual:

"*Workers sometimes think that management knows about an OSHA inspection in 
advance. However, it is a crime for OSHA employees to give unauthorized advance 
notice of an inspection. Sometimes a delay between the inspector's arrival at the 
workplace and the beginning of the inspection allows time for employers to change 
conditions."*

https://www.osha.gov/dte/grant_materials/fy10/sh-20853-10/osha_inspections.pdf

OOps.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> Some of these arguments against Engelbrecht might make some sense if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't just Osha that investigated Engelbrecht but also the FBI, IRS, ATF.



You mean she was cheating on her taxes as WELL as endangering her employees.  

HOnestly, when that many people who work for you break bad, you're probably a really shitty boss.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> LOL!  I never meant to imply that the government agencies didn't have any other stated excuses to harass Engbrecht other than " We don't like you tea baggers trying to clean up elections".
> I'm not going to be as liberal with the word "lie" as you are but I find that Engelbrecht's situation should be investigated as well as other conservative groups who were targeted by the IRS. I think it's only fair. Especially since the IRS has already said that it targeted conservative groups (even though they say it was an accident or something).



No, it wasn't an "Accident". 

Conservatives were deliberately trying to cheat the tax code by claiming political groups were social welfare organizations.  

That's why they were being investigated. 

So it's not surprising the kind of Conservative Shitheel who would try to cheat the tax code would be the same kind of shitheel who wouldn't provide employees with proper safety equipment.  

Because they're assholes.  

Thank God we have a government to protect us from these sorts of people.


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## HenryBHough (Feb 10, 2014)

Call upon strangers much?


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Call upon strangers much?


Was that supposed to make sense?


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## SFC Ollie (Feb 10, 2014)

paperview said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


You want to play with words we can do it all day, keyword here would be unauthorized.


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## HenryBHough (Feb 10, 2014)

paperview said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > Call upon strangers much?
> ...



Liberal low-comprehension reading scores probably caused you to miss this line in the preceding:


"Thank *God* we have a government to protect us from these sorts of people."

Colour added to make it harder for you to miss.


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

...err.....Ooookay.


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

SFC Ollie said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...


Quit yer shit.

You declared "I'm afraid not" when I stated

_The "she said that OSHA showed up without warning" is really, really a stupid line.

*The whole point *is to show up without warning.  Duh.

In fact - it is against the law to give warning._


You're the one playing word games. Eat it.


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## emilynghiem (Feb 10, 2014)

Dear Paperview: Thanks for this and your other posts giving more explanations for your viewpoints. I sent this list to Chris X Radio who played the testimony tape on his radio show.

It seems there is such a conflict of political interests, both sides can say the other is justifying their biases.

If it is true that an Obama contributor headed the investigation that found no wrongdoing, that is going to be contested as a conflict of interest and biased.

Anyone who was serious about an investigation would make it bipartisan or nonpartisan, and not set up to fail.

So unless we change the structure, this type of conflict will continue and get nowhere. This is truly pathetic, that each administration goes after and targets political groups on the other side. And look the other way when it comes to conflicts of interest with campaign contributors.

I truly hope both parties get smart and set up internal structures of directing taxes, or contributions, or taxes on contributions, of their own party members and sponsors to go directly into programs and policies they believe in and want to succeed. That way, it is in their best interest to police the purse strings, and only their party is affected by their own internal corruption they are responsible for fixing.

the federal govt should only be in charge of policies that all sides agree with uniformally, and support in good faith and with fully committed conscience and conviction, so there is less motivation to corrupt or steal funds from the process and divert elsewhere because people politically or religiously disagree and don't support funding which just invites this backstabbing behavior.

all programs should be so effective with unified support that people WANT them to work
so there is no conflict of interest in trying to abuse or divert resources or authority.

This has just gotten out of hand. We need to clean up the govt and get all the party politics out so there is no incentive to play any games, cover up, or appear so to invoke suspicion or backlash.

All of this entanglement needs to be avoided by separating funding by party 
and keep it away apart and out of federal govt and public administration hands.

Just privatize it like religions do, where organization leaders and members are responsible for
policing their own in house programs. the parties would be too busy building and investing in their own sustainable programs they want to continue, they won't sabotage each other.
Parties can follow the same rules and structure of govt, but keep their programs voluntarily funded and followed by members who choose to contribute and participate because they believe in them.

why compete for power and control when they can control their own party platforms without any interference from others.



paperview said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > Some of these arguments against Engelbrecht might make some sense if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't just Osha that investigated Engelbrecht but also the FBI, IRS, ATF.
> ...


----------



## SFC Ollie (Feb 10, 2014)

paperview said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



2


> Inspections are always conducted without advance notice.
> *There are, however, special circumstances under which
> OSHA may give notice to the employer*, but such a notice will
> normally be less than 24 hours. These circumstances include
> ...



It's not illegal.

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha2098.pdf


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > LOL!  I never meant to imply that the government agencies didn't have any other stated excuses to harass Engbrecht other than " We don't like you tea baggers trying to clean up elections".
> ...



 You seem to be confusing reality with opinion. You do know the IRS did apologize for the inappropriate manner for which they unfairly targeted conservative groups don't you? 
I understand you hate all things republican but you should not hate all things factual or confuse these facts with far left propaganda nonsense.

IRS apologizes for targeting conservative groups - Byron Tau and Lauren French and Tarini Parti - POLITICO.com

Why Did the IRS Target Conservative Groups? - The Daily Beast


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## JoeB131 (Feb 10, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> [quo
> 
> You seem to be confusing reality with opinion. You do know the IRS did apologize for the inappropriate manner for which they unfairly targeted conservative groups don't you?
> I understand you hate all things republican but you should not hate all things factual or confuse these facts with far left propaganda nonsense.
> ...



Guy, if you want to tack an insincere apology to your mantle and call it a win, have at it. 

Point was, the Teabaggers tried to cheat the system, and they didn't get away with it. 

And now that a big bright light is shining on the whole thing, they won't try it again.


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## Dot Com (Feb 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > [quo
> ...



yep. The rest of the eXtreme rw meme is just talking-points


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## paperview (Feb 10, 2014)

SFC Ollie said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...


Are you just fighting for fights sake?

*It is a crime for OSHA employees to give unauthorized advance 
notice of an inspection. Sometimes a delay between the inspector's arrival at the workplace and the beginning of the inspection allows time for employers to change conditions."*

https://www.osha.gov/dte/grant_mater...nspections.pdf


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 10, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > [quo
> ...



 Uhmmmm... what post are you responding to? Apology? Are you inhaling too many Walmart vanilla scented incense sticks while listening to a Pink Floyd 8-track? 
 I know what your point was. I'm just pointing out that your point is factually wrong. Your welcome.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 11, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
> ...



Wasn't factually wrong at all. 

Teabaggers tried to cheat the IRS. 

The IRS slammed them like a ton of bricks. 

Then they said, "Oh, gee, we should have handled you more courteously (but you still aren't getting your tax dodge".) 

But not to worry, you guys can STILL claim you lost in 2012 because the IRS kept Teabaggers from bringing the truth to the voters, not because you nominated a weird plutocrat who thought he was wearing magic underwear and disrespected half the electorate.


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## paperview (Feb 11, 2014)

Just to give some of the readers here some more background history on Engelbrech's group - which started out as The King Street Patriots...

It was back in 2010 I began following this group. Stories were coming out about a huge mysterious fire that destroyed all of Houston's voting machines.

This happened concurrently with this group's stated mission to hit Houston, and hit it big. It was their crusade.
"If we lose Houston, we lose Texas. And guess what? If we lose Texas we lose the country."

Then I saw the duplicity and outright fraud of this woman when I read how *her group in their gang-busters premier "instructional video" doctored some nasty signs from rallies* - heightening the fever to "stamp out voter fraud.""A video on their website pictures only people of color when it talks of  voter fraud. White people are shown talking patriotically about the need  for a million vigilantes to suppress illegal votes."​Here is the original sign, from a Gore-Lieberman rally:






It says "Don't Mess with my Vote." You can see the Lieberman sign there.
(here is another picture of the woman at another angle and the full sign)

Engelbrecht's group then altered the signs in their dramatic video to show This:




"A right-wing group in Houston engaged in a systematic voter  suppression and intimidation effort used a doctored photo in its  showcase video. Tellingly, a hand-lettered sign carried by an  African-American woman at a 2000 Florida, Gore-Lieberman recount rally  was changed from, "Don't Mess With Our Vote," to read, "I Only Got to  Vote Once."

Huffington Post editors first suspected the photoshopping after I posted "Possible Arson and the Right's Texas Voter Suppression Effort" regarding King Street Patriots'  attacks on a nonprofit voter registration effort and the mysterious  fire that destroyed all of Harris County's (Houston) voting machines."​Glenn W. Smith: Right-Wing Voter Suppression Effort Caught Using Doctored Photo (VIDEO, PHOTOS)

That's just a teeny bit of insight into some of the ways this woman manipulates. As has been shown, many of her charges of a "government out to get her" are outright lies or half-truths.  

I intend to follow through with making sure people are aware of the kind of person she is.  The right wing I see now is intent on making her a "hero." 

She is no hero.  Ask yourself - if this woman is all about the Truth, why does she lie so much  and do things like doctoring photos like that?


----------



## paperview (Feb 11, 2014)

From 2010:

In Texas' Biggest County, A Minority Registration Drive Is Crippled By Fraud Allegations



> October 5, 2010,  1:09 PM EDT554
> 
> The events over the last month in Harris County, Texas offer a  crystal-clear example of how voter fraud allegations work, with a Tea  Party group alleging fraud, a minority registration group alleging  suppression and defamation, the county registrar declaring war and the  state Dems jumping into the fray with a lawsuit of their own.
> 
> ...





> A few weeks after that, on Sept. 24, Lewis sued True The Vote. He claims  that t*he group blatantly lied when it said most of its registrations  had been rejected, and that the "vacant lot" registrations had been made  in 2008 and 2009 -- before Houston Votes was founded and when those  lots still had homes on them*.



See how she lies?

BTW:  The suit resulted in True the Vote getting slapped by the judge.


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## Truthmatters (Feb 11, 2014)

peach174 said:


> Why did OSHA,EPA,FBI and the BATF come in one after the other to inspect her place of business?
> None of them ever came in before in the 20 years that they had a business.



oh really can you PROVE that?

the women LIED about what OSHA found at her business huh?


she is a fucking liar.


so you believe HER instead of the facts?


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## paperview (Feb 11, 2014)

More on the lies from King Street Patriots . True the Vote:

Contempt for Democracy: Attacks on Voting Rights



> [Sunday September 5, 2010 9:30 ] Groups like King Street Patriots hide behind rhetoric that _they_  are the guardians of fair, open and honest elections. If that is true,  why do they lie? Why do they invent stories of fraud where none exist?  Why do they doctor images in their video? If truth is what they want,  why do they poison it?
> 
> Their lies betray their real goal: to limit the voting rights of  their political opponents. Let me detail one of their lies. They claim  repeatedly that in Houston, six people are registered to a vacant lot.  The claim is the symbolic center of their phony accusations of voter  fraud.








It  didn&#8217;t take very many minutes of research to discover how ridiculous  this charge was. 

Incidentally, the Liberty Institute has taken the image down from its  website. *LI is run by King Street Patriots lawyer,* Kelly Shackleford,  the guy who tried to suppress the Alaska Legislature&#8217;s Sarah Palin  report. Anyway, *it turns out that there was a rent house on  that vacant lot until 2010.* A demolition permit was issued in September,  2009. Tax records indicate the house stood until 2010. The six  registered voters mentioned in the attack were renters going back ten  years.





If any doubt remains, here&#8217;s a Google Earth photo of the house that once stood on King Streets&#8217; allegedly vacant lot.

*King Street Patriots doesn&#8217;t care, of course, because the truth of an  allegation is irrelevant*. Like all voter suppression and intimidation  campaigns ([ame="http://www.amazon.com/Campaign-Century-Sinclairs-Governor-California/dp/0679748547"]Greg Mitchell&#8217;s account of the the 1934 California gubernatorial[/ame]  race tells a great story about how unfounded accusations of fraud can  be used to suppress votes) racist allegations of widespread fraud are  used to stir anger among (usually white) conservative voters and  intimidate minority voters."


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 11, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



 Thank you for your opinion but I would still rather focus on the facts. The IRS ADMITTED to wrongfully targeting conservative groups. The debate is if rather the IRS targeted conservative groups because the IRS wanted to tap down political opposition or is the IRS just incompetent? Either way, the IRS really needs to be fixed. Unfortunately, as we see on this very thread, the far left has no problem justifying the IRS's corruption or incompetence as long as it is politically convenient.


----------



## paperview (Feb 11, 2014)

Again, let's go back to 2010 - to see what was happening when  Engelbretcht began her crusade.  There was a thread here about the New  Black Panthers in Houston.  This was well before the news of IRS "targeting" and their scrutiny of the flood of 501c orgs.

Have a look at what one of our members here was exposing:




edthecynic said:


> chanel said:
> 
> 
> > > The  New Black Panthers were again in Philadelphia  with former defendant  Jerry Jackson once again perched at the entrance to a poll.  He engaged  voters, some of whom were not so happy about it. But Philadelphia wasnt  the only American city graced by the presence of New Black Panthers  today. They were also active in Houston.
> ...


http://www.usmessageboard.com/2926638-post5.html

And you wonder why some of these people seeking tax-exempt status might have been scrutinized?


----------



## Truthmatters (Feb 11, 2014)

the facts are not on your side


Like this women your party lies all the time


----------



## paperview (Feb 11, 2014)

More:


edthecynic said:


> sangha said:
> 
> 
> > theHawk said:
> ...



Remember that post is from *2010*. Pay attention to that line in blue. Is there any doubt?


----------



## paperview (Feb 11, 2014)

More lies, from 2012:

"Engelbrecht, who said True the Vote has not harassed or intimidated  anyone, insists it is nonpartisan and does not target minority voting  areas.

&#8220;When you look at where there is need for people to go and  work at the polls,&#8221; she told News21 in a phone interview, *&#8220;the fact of  the matter is, there are fewer volunteers working in minority  locations.&#8221;*

Election observers True the Vote accused of intimidating minority voters - Investigations

That is out and out bullshit. It's been shown earlier here how they have an over abundance in minority /dem areas and are very minimal in white areas.

In North Carolina, a long report was produced that graphically showed just the bullshit of her claim:

https://irehr.org/issue-areas/tea-p...news-and-analysis/item/436-abridging-the-vote

"True the Vote works primarily at the district level and they only  work in districts that have large populations of poor, minorities,  and/or Democrats."True the Vote has been able to attract the highest levels  of volunteers in areas of the state with the highest levels of African  American population. Of the twenty-five counties with the highest level  of African American population in the state, True the Vote has  volunteers in twenty-four of them. *By contrast, of the ten counties with  the two lowest levels of African American population (0-167 and  167-810), True the Vote has only one volunteer in two different  counties.*

*True the Vote also has recruits in nine of the ten North Carolina  counties with the highest Hispanic or Latino ancestry population. By  contrast, True the Vote only has recruits in 4 of the twenty-five least  Latino populated counties.*

*Map 2 &#8211; True the Vote Volunteers and the African American Population*



​Tell me again True the Vote isn't targeting minorities and dems. Tell me again how she isn't a liar.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 11, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> Thank you for your opinion but I would still rather focus on the facts. The IRS ADMITTED to wrongfully targeting conservative groups. The debate is if rather the IRS targeted conservative groups because the IRS wanted to tap down political opposition or is the IRS just incompetent? Either way, the IRS really needs to be fixed. Unfortunately, as we see on this very thread, the far left has no problem justifying the IRS's corruption or incompetence as long as it is politically convenient.



Oh, guy, I have no problem with that at all. 

I think ANYTHING that gets you fucking loons off the political stage is justified.  The GOP fucked up when it decided you nutters had to be pandered to, and most of you deny even being Republicans.



But the reality here, the IRS was responding to conservative fraud from people like Mrs. Engelbrecht.  My opinion is they didn't go far enough.  She engaged in tax fraud, she needs to be in the graybar hotel.


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 11, 2014)

Hi Paperview: My bf said to watch her sworn testimony before Congress, where the OSHA issues were not brought up. She focused and complained of the other govt intrusions.

He said if she had lied, why didn't the opponents go after her for PERJURY.

He asks why you and others are focusing on OSHA when that was not included.
Are you just selectively picking on things you can criticize and missing the real testimony?

I'm sorry that as a Democrat I have a lot more life experience watching Democrats tear apart Republican records for political points, but conveniently overlook and enable Democrat corruption at taxpayers expense. The record of voter and ballot fraud by Democrats is well known where I am in Texas among minority voters who aren't stupid and know that the Democrats PIMP the minority votes (the women, peace, labor, green, black and immigrants) for elections but depend on that money and don't give back to the communities who are robbed of resources to get them elected. This is like the husband who boasts of being head of the family and in charge, but spends the family money on gambling and drinking to show off while the women and children do all the farm work.

Sorry to be so crude. But I have watched and worked in a historic freed slave district and seen the taxpayer money abused by Democrats who refused to police themselves; the party rules even forbid that an elected position advocate against a Democrat running for office by endorsing a candidate of another party, so they aren't allowed to speak out against corruption but have to keep towing the party line if they want to keep in office. Anything the financiers want who control their campaigns and elections get the deals.

This is how they play politics because they don't have moral authority to enforce the Constitution to use that for power, if they aren't following it themselves. Once you use money and politics to simulate power and influence, then you have to pay the piper.

I have begged and pleaded with friends to use the Constitution to invoke authority, but they have no faith they can stand up to Republicans and conservatives and Christians who invoke power this way, so they keep depending on party politics and gameplaying to bully instead.

it is very sad. i learned the hard way even if they know corruption is going on with their own Democrats, they have to stand behind them and work to clean it up diplomatically. unfortunately that isnt getting done because playing the money game costs all the resources taht can be collected, so this is sucked into campaigns and out of communities that needed that money to fix the damages caused by all this gameplaying corruption.

There are millions if not billions in damage to national history in my district alone.
So it happens to be a prime exampel of Democrat priorities gone wrong -- sucking billions out of the pockets of poor minorities out of fear they need bigger bullies to fight for them against Republicans and conservatives (instead of empowering people to govern themselves and defend their own intersts and resolve conflicts by Constitutional laws),
so there is no money left when it comes to saving poor district that asked to rebuild schools and save historic houses and churches. All the money even tax grants went to developers so the Democrats don't fear they will lose their offices. They are afraid to uphold constitutional protections directly, and just say and do what is politically popular for funding and votes, claiming to "remove the opposition" instead of enforcing laws directly.



paperview said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...


----------



## paperview (Feb 11, 2014)

Sorry to be crude Emily, but I think you post nonsensical screeds.  I read your last one, and it was  full of pablum and vapor. Nothing to grasp.

It was like reading a cloud.

Your latest is another. I have not just focused on OSHA.  I suggest you read the thread further and see where every one of her charges was addressed.

But..I will respond to one of your atypical concrete charges:

Quote=you: "The record of voter and ballot fraud by Democrats is well known where I  am in Texas among minority voters who aren't stupid and know that the  Democrats PIMP the minority votes (the women, peace, labor, green, black  and immigrants) for elections but depend on that money and don't give  back to the communities who are robbed of resources to get them elected."

Please provide evidence of the "well known voter fraud."

Hattip for the capped _PIMP_.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 11, 2014)

paperview said:


> Sorry to be crude Emily, but I think you post nonsensical screeds.  I read your last one, and it was  full of pablum and vapor. Nothing to grasp.
> 
> It was like reading a cloud.
> 
> ...



thats why I can't read her posts either, they're overly long novellas. Nothing personal.


----------



## paperview (Feb 12, 2014)

​


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 16, 2014)

paperview said:


> Sorry to be crude Emily, but I think you post nonsensical screeds.  I read your last one, and it was  full of pablum and vapor. Nothing to grasp.
> 
> It was like reading a cloud.
> 
> ...



One of the most famous cases was the stuffing of Ballot Box 13 to get Lyndon Johnson elected. This was dramatized as a play; not only was the voting rigged but the review by judges was corrupted by party. here is one summary of it, that seems fair in being open to both sides, since the confession to wrongdoing came later and not established during the formal investigation: How Johnson Won Election He'd Lost - NYTimes.com

I have interviewed a longstanding Black liberal civil rights advocate, who told me that it was long known that the Democrats played these games. Lost boxes of ballots off trucks with no accountability because the districts were too poor. You could call all that hearsay if it was never proven.

In my district, there are longstanding records of Democrat leaders giving tax money grants to developers in underhanded deals to destroy national historic landmarks at public expense while the developer friends profited financially. You can look up Houston Renaissance and the 3.4 million dollar housing grant where complaints went up to the AG office for fraud; and the most they did was remove the head of the group for conflict of interest with Mayor Bob Lanier. He also made a deal to sell historic county property to another friend at a loss so this developer Marvin Finger could demolish by bypassing federal laws, then flipping it at a profit to the Federal Reserve, making 8 to 10 million. The lawyers will say all this is legal. 

This is worse than election fraud. because it cannot be policed when all the people involved are complicit in letting it go unchecked.

very long repeated deliberate history of this. don't get me started with democrats...


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 16, 2014)

1. the fact that OSHA was being focused on AT ALL when that was not in the testimony AT ALL
2. are we talking about the same testimony? my bf said Englebrecht stated (under oath not to commit perjury) that the IRS admitted there was no wrongdoing yet cost her tens of thousands of dollars

if she was lying why didn't anyone go after her for perjury?

I am guessing you and my bf are not referencing the same testimony?

It may be a case where he points to the testimony that backs up his views
and you point to the testimony that backs up yours. if so nothing will change your minds if you have already decided in advance.

do you know what he is talking about, that she had to pay tens of thousands of dollars even though the IRS found no wrongdoing and admitted so? was she lying or committing perjury by saying that?

please let me know if his point about the IRS is in the same testimonies you reference



paperview said:


> Sorry to be crude Emily, but I think you post nonsensical screeds.  I read your last one, and it was  full of pablum and vapor. Nothing to grasp.
> 
> It was like reading a cloud.
> 
> ...



PS my whole district of Freedmens' town is proof of democrat political abuse and fraud.
you can talk to living witnesses about it who have fought to find attorneys willing to sue that big, but most people won't touch it because they have conflicts of interest. anyone with contacts or campaigns for office can't go against the developers or its political suicide.

I even had friends in historic preservation admit the problem was no lawyers will touch it
so how can it be proven in court if nobody will pursue the complaints?
the historical community residents know the history but the media and legal community look th e other way or everyone would be complicit for letting it go on like rape or incest
so they wait for someone else to say something to step in and fix it or just let it happen 

the local museum finally found a lawyer to look at some of the patterns of abuse and corruption, but they cannot push publicly or the city will push faster to destroy the evidence
this has been going on since Freedmens' Town was settled. and the court battles have been going on since the govt abused eminent domain to build public houses over gravesites they denied were there until these were uncovered over half a century later. in the meantime the statute of limitations runs out and there are no lawyers to fight the wrongs. so they keep doing this, it is unbelievable. not until the democrats pushed the aca and started bulldozing over people nationally did more people care. this was already happening locally. they just use political power to do whatever they can until someone sues to stop it.


----------



## MeBelle (Feb 16, 2014)

paperview said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



You missed the key word here, unauthorized.

It is not against the law for OSHA to give advance notice of inspection.

It is a crime for an OSHA employee to give advance notice if not authorized.


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 16, 2014)

paperview said:


> Sorry to be crude Emily, but I think you post nonsensical screeds.  I read your last one, and it was  full of pablum and vapor. Nothing to grasp.
> 
> It was like reading a cloud.
> 
> ...



Allen West Concedes Despite Massive Voter Fraud

Here is another highly publicized case.

I still think Freedmen's Town is the worst, historically documented, and ongoing example of political fraud by the Democrat Party.

but if you are not convinced, I am willing to contact Allan West and post a national challenge to investigate both and decide which is the worst example of political abuse.

I think if he were smart, he would expose Freedmen's Town in Sheila Jackson Lee's district and smash the Democrat Party for letting this go on like incest or rape in the family.

But if she and the Democrats were smarter, they'd either speed up the destruction to hide any remaining evidence, or do a huge PR story to make it look like they are the heroes fixing it. So I will try to contact all Black leaders to see how they want this to play out.

Allan West is busy promoting his new book coming out, but if he comes to Houston I will try to get him in contact with the people there who know the political history.

you probably won't believe any of this if it isn't proven in court

I can just tell you I am a Democrat workign with the Democrat Chair in that precinct trying to stop the damage, but the politics of the party keep everyone waiting for diplomatic solutions where they won't speak out against any of the Democrats or financial support.
or the lawyers won't either. it's too much conflict of interest so no one is free to go against the plans to keep funding developers to destroy the national history abusing tax money. they find ways to justify it as legal even though the ethics violations are blatant. it is weird how no one from either party will step up to stop it. because in texas the rights of business developers is untouchable so none of them want to go against it either. maybe allan west would be objective since he's from florida and can easily blame this on democrats to expose the dangerous hypocrisy and exploitation of the party. it is that bad. we'll see who is the first to stand up against the corruption. if anyone is willing to fix it or just let it go on.


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 16, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> But the reality here, the IRS was responding to conservative fraud from people like Mrs. Engelbrecht.  My opinion is they didn't go far enough.  She engaged in tax fraud, she needs to be in the graybar hotel.



This is where I question if you and others are citing the same testimony.

My bf said her sworn testimony under oath, under pain of perjury, stated
that the IRS found no wrongdoing yet cost her tens of thousands of dollars.

How can it be
1. there was no wrongdoing found by the IRS but she still had to pay
2. she stated this under oath, so if it was lying she would be charged with perjury

are you referencing he same testimony before govt under oath?

*Ex: "Bringing audits and inquiries that found nothing, they nonetheless fined Catherine and her husband $20,000 &#8211; just because they&#8217;re the IRS and they can!*

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/site/article/catherine-engelbrecht-1-irs-0

1. was this or wasn't this stated under oath in her testimony?
2. if it was a lie, where are the perjury charges?


----------



## paperview (Feb 16, 2014)

MeBelle60 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...


 

Do you think you're making some kind of point here?

It has nothing to do with Englebitch complaining she wasn't given advance notice of an OSHA visit - which was what started this whole thing.

Who do you think would give that authorization?  Englebitch?

If OSHA had given her company advance notice - it would have been a crime.


----------



## paperview (Feb 16, 2014)

shorter emily : 1948 election, hearsay, "my bf said...," "my bf said...," blah blah ...and a link to wingnut canadianfreepress.

Oh brother.


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 16, 2014)

paperview said:


> shorter emily : 1948 election, hearsay, "my bf said...," "my bf said...," blah blah ...and a link to wingnut canadianfreepress.
> 
> Oh brother.



How can it be
1. there was no wrongdoing found by the IRS but she still had to pay
2. she stated this under oath, so if it was lying she would be charged with perjury

are you referencing he same testimony before govt under oath?

Ex: "Bringing audits and inquiries that found nothing, they nonetheless fined Catherine and her husband $20,000  just because theyre the IRS and they can!


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 16, 2014)

paperview said:


> shorter emily : 1948 election, hearsay, "my bf said...," "my bf said...," blah blah ...and a link to wingnut canadianfreepress.
> 
> Oh brother.



good bit of advice emily  no one's going to take you more seriously just because you make your zany posts longer 

As to the OP, does the Fire Marshall ever give "advance notice" that he's going to inspect your place of business? Heck no. It defeats the purpose. Same goes for OSHA. Stop w/ the rw tap dancing


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 16, 2014)

paperview said:


> shorter emily : 1948 election, hearsay, "my bf said...," "my bf said...," blah blah ...and a link to wingnut canadianfreepress.
> 
> Oh brother.



Hi Paperview: if Democrats themselves complain about Democrat political fraud,
I think that carries a bit more weight.

Is that what makes you so nervous you cannot answer?

* I also cited Allan West's case of voter fraud which is more recent.

is this just too embarrassing for Democrats to answer to?

* now if it is NOT true, that Engelbrecht said the IRS found no wrongdoing yet they had to pay anyway
and that is why she is suing the IRS, then please say so. Please explain if she committed perjury under oath.
that's fine if that is your answer.

* also, the ACORN cases of voter fraud were well established.
The woman who admitted voting 12 times was convicted on multiple counts.

If you are worried that I am biased (as a liberal prochoice Democrat concerned for integrity of the Democrat party)
i can say these things as well:
* for reports of more votes counted than the number in a precinct, it was explained online that ballots with multiple pages might count as double when it was only one vote.
* I do believe that the judges' ruling in the contested case of Florida votes for Bush vs. Gore was a conflict of interest.
clearly the court shoud not have been skewed toward Republican, but judges should have removed themselves if there was political bias or appearance of it.
so that technically should be thrown out and redone, just because of conflicts of interest
I think they should have recounted to assure there was no question.

as for military and absentee voting, there is so much room for error, this also introduces concern of manipulation

my overall position is that govt decisions should be made by consensus anyway, and not by majroity rule of one party over another.
so there would be less concern for fraud if all decisions must be made by resolving issues and writing laws by consent of the public.


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 16, 2014)

paperview said:


> shorter emily : 1948 election, hearsay, "my bf said...," "my bf said...," blah blah ...and a link to wingnut canadianfreepress.
> 
> Oh brother.



Hi Paperview: if Democrats themselves complain about Democrat political fraud,
I think that carries a bit more weight.

Is that what makes you so nervous you cannot answer?

I also cited Allan West's case of voter fraud which is more recent.

Is that too embarrassing for Democrats to answer to?

the case of ACORN voter fraud was established by guilty pleas.
the woman who voted 12 times was convicted on multiple counts.

the most publicized case of republican voter fraud was the conflict of interest
in having republican judges rule in bush's election when I thought they
should go ahead and recount to ensure no conflicts or questions remained.

people who are biased cite one case but not others that favor certain parties.

I consider all of these to be ethical violations by not resolving conflicts of interest.
I am a Constitutionalist so I have no problem pushing for corrections
within either party, preferably by their own party members so it is clear it is not politically motivated by opposition.

Im sorry if this bothers you so much, you point out things that are not the issue.

I just wanted you to clarify if it is true or false
if the IRS found no wrongdoing and still cost Engelbrecht thousands of dollars.
and if she committed perjury if such statement was made under oath.

I'm sorry if this wasn't clear.
Can you please clarify, thank you!

if you can correct this, I can present that to my bf and other people citing things out of context.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 16, 2014)

emily just doesn't get it   

Typing more words doesn't make you "more" right just as saying something louder doesn't make you more right.


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 17, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> emily just doesn't get it
> 
> Typing more words doesn't make you "more" right just as saying something louder doesn't make you more right.



???

I cited other cases of voter fraud
* Allan West in Florida
* ACORN including a women convicted of multiple counts

this is adding information that was requested.


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 17, 2014)

Dear Paperview:
I couldn't find the IRS reference in the testimony posted online.
I am writing directly to Engelbrecht by email asking for the reference.

If Chris X cannot find it either, I will ask him to correct this point publicly
instead of spreading misinformation. Personally I also find it additionally
insulting if it turns out this case of fraud is not as bad as Freedmen's Town.
Why make such a big deal of this Kingwood case while ignore the longstanding
hotbed of corruption going on that would expose the genocidal power grab of the Democrat party.

See letter below I sent by email asking for clarification on the IRS point.
though I don't expect to receive a response.

I am seriously trying to address and correct problems on both sides.
Most people only focus on what serves their political agenda.

Sorry but that's not me.
Sorry if you or others are only interested in proving one side as well.
I would rather expose problems on both sides in order to fix the real problem
with onesided media coverage. 

I am trying to get to the bottom of this, and it seems it is easier
to publicize simpler complaints and avoid the more serious political fraud.

Too much responsibility I guess! it is very weird that conservatives
will jump on Democrats for everything else, but I bring up a huge
federal case of destruction at taxpayers expense, and people fall silent.

==============================================
http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Engelbrecht.pdf

Dear Mrs. Engelbrecht:
Chris X Radio played your testimony before Congress on the radio.

Thank you for speaking up about political abuses of our voting and tax system
due to partisan tactics. Could I please ask your help to clarify one point:

Chris X repeated reports that the IRS found nothing wrong in your case
but imposed fines anyway. I did not find this in your transcript.
He said if it was false, you would have been charged with perjury.

Someone else online argued that you did have valid violations
from OSHA and asked for a source on the IRS fines or nonexistent violations.

Can you please clarify this point about the IRS? I could not find it.

If Chris X misreported this statement, I will ask him to correct this point,
and to do a followup radio show on the partisan abuses of federal laws to destroy national history in
Freedmen's Town that was also targeted by the City of Houston under Democrat administration
as Kingwood was, for control of property taken from local ownership.

I will look on your website to see if I can find the
exact source I was asked to verify.

If you can please email me this clarification,
I would like to post it online at usmessageboard.com

In the future, I would like to organize a process of corrections and restitution
for all such abuses that have ruined the reputation and principles of the Democrat Party.

Thank you for your dedication to pursuing
cases of political fraud, which I believe should be corrected
before any more Democrats run for office. Responsibility
must be taken or these things continue to go unchecked.

Yours truly,
Emily Nghiem
National Freedmen's Town District
destroyed by Democrat corruption
=====================

Dear ChrisX:
I posted the rebuttal as you stated regarding Engelbrecht

1. you said she did not complain about OSHA
but I did find that mentioned in the testimony.
Were you talking about a different statement she made,
or did you only take an excerpt and leave out that part?

2. you said she stated under oath that the IRS
found nothing wrong but fined her anyway

I did not find this statement in the sworn testimony
or in the court documents online at truethevote.org

Now the people online are criticizing me
for citing you and other sources as rightwing biased
and not telling all the information accurately.

You said it was in her sworn testimony
or else she would be charged with perjury.

Where is this statement located?
Which testimony were you referring to?

Please reply. If it turns out it is not in her sworn
testimony before Congress, I will ask for a public
correction by you, as well as recommendation
to Allan West to come visit and investigate
Freedmen's Town as the most blatantly egregious abuses
of political, govt, corporate and media influence
by Democrat party leaders to cover up political fraud and
destruction at the expense of taxpayers and national history.

It will be sorely embarrassing to me if Engelbrecht's OSHA
fines were based on substantiated violations, and there were no fines
by the IRS as you and others reported or repeated,
and yet you used your media time to report that as news.
But will not so much as mention Freedmen's Town to Allan West
or others who could pursue it since they do not have a conflict of interest in
investigating and exposing it. If so, shame on you for turning a blind eye
to a more serious problem while making a big issue of something that isn't.

I guess if people have money to sue, they count as important.
And people who can't afford big lawyers like Engelbrecht
are out of luck and don't deserve equal protection of the laws
and coverage in the media.

Please send corrections if it is true
that Engelbrecht was a. fined by the IRS
without any wrongdoing found (all I could
find was that this cost her a lot of money, thousands
of dollars including lost work time and legal work)
and b. that she stated this in her sworn 
testimony which I could not find either.

Thank you and I hope we
correct this matter and
others more pressing.

==========

Dear Herman Cain:
Thank you for reporting on the Engelbrecht case.

I cited your statement she was fined 20K by IRS with no wrongdoing found. I posted this on an online forum at usmessageboard.com

Can you please confirm where this was stated in sworn testimony before Congress?

I also invite you and Allan West to please visit Freedmen's Town In Houston to help Gladys House a Black Republican to redress grievances and corruption by Democrats who destroyed this national historic landmark of Freed Slave churches, African American Civil Rights and military history. 

Millions of tax dollars were abused by Democrats and their corporate interests to destroy national Black history. Will you please contact Gladys House to tour this site of political corruption and abuse by Democrats at taxpayers expense. We would like to pursue restitution in order to buy the remaining land as a campus for sustainable business development.

Thank you,
Emily Nghiem
http://www.freedmenstown.com


----------



## JohnL.Burke (Feb 17, 2014)

emilynghiem said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > emily just doesn't get it
> ...



 LOL! I love your persistence! It's fun to watch people emotionally unraveling when you have the audacity to ask serious questions and state facts as opposed to partisan propaganda. Good for you! Left or right, I don't care, drive 'em all nuts! It's a public service!


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 17, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Hi John: that goes both ways.
it turns out Dotcom and Paperview may have caught my bf leaving out or skewing
how he reported on Engelbrecht. If he did make a big case out of nothing,
I will hold him to corrections as well. he claims not to be partisan, but if we
catch him skewing things, I will hold him to the same standard of corrections. we could get a lot of mileage out of this. there is unreported and overlooked corruption on all sides.

They made good points, too!
Thanks for your input, we need to expose all the problems, from all sides.
Dotcom and Paperview also who brought up things that were missed due to biases.


----------



## MeBelle (Feb 17, 2014)

paperview said:


> MeBelle60 said:
> 
> 
> > paperview said:
> ...



Not with *authorized* advance notice.

The crime is when an employee of OSHA gives unauthorized advance notice.

Who can authorize advance notice? A manager or Dept head, not just any employee.

My post had nothing to do with the person you are referring to, only to OSHA regulations.

It's in the pdf you posted. You choose to cherry pick.

Roll your eyes some more, deary.

And stop looking stupid.


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 17, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Because you went nuts years ago, and are totally enjoying it, no doubt.


----------



## Stephanie (Feb 17, 2014)

These people backing this government and the Irs thinks they will be shielded from this type of abuse

well, this is just the stepping stone for them....you will be next...so cheer them on like good little sheep/subjects


----------



## JoeB131 (Feb 17, 2014)

Stephanie said:


> These people backing this government and the Irs thinks they will be shielded from this type of abuse
> 
> well, this is just the stepping stone for them....you will be next...so cheer them on like good little sheep/subjects



No, we just can't get worked up when the IRS scrutinizes your claim to be a "Social Welfare" agency when you are doing politics.  

Frankly, the IRS is doing exactly what it is supposed to do, scrutinize dubious claims in tax filings.


----------



## natstew (Feb 17, 2014)

Quote from Emilyngheim,
" I do believe that the judges' ruling in the contested case of Florida votes for Bush vs. Gore was a conflict of interest.
clearly the court shoud not have been skewed toward Republican, but judges should have removed themselves if there was political bias or appearance of it.
so that technically should be thrown out and redone, just because of conflicts of interest
I think they should have recounted to assure there was no question."

Have you really thought about what you posted here? That makes no sense at all!
For starters all Supremes are either Democrat or Republican, so what are you going to do, remove all of the Judges from the vote?

And, the U.S. Supreme Court didn't pick George Bush, they upheld the Constitution of the State of Florida which gives the Florida Secretary Of State authority to administer the Florida Election Laws as written in the Florida Constitution. The whole debacle was a failed attempt by the Democrat Party to steal the Presidency, and very shameful of them.  You can't be a Democrat and have any moral integrity in your Character.


----------



## natstew (Feb 17, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > These people backing this government and the Irs thinks they will be shielded from this type of abuse
> ...



Frankly Joe, you are not being honest here. Dubious claims? They weren't even investigated, they were 'sat on' so the organizations were shut down.
You seem to ignore all the Democrat organizations that were okayed without an investigation. You really are as corrupt as your Supreme Leader'.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 17, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > These people backing this government and the Irs thinks they will be shielded from this type of abuse
> ...



yep, that brazen rw Englebrecht broad is as partisan a hack as they come. She doesn't want poor people voting.


----------



## natstew (Feb 17, 2014)

As for OSHA, it became a political tool for the Democrats years ago. In the seventies it was being used to shut down non-union construction projects. I saw it first hand on Union Jobs and non-Union jobs. It was common knowledge on the jobs. Union projects always got enough notice to prepare for the visit and non-Union companies received no notice. I saw non-Union sites shut down over minor discrepancies and Union sites get a warning and not a penalty for the same infraction.

 In view of all the corruption in the Democrat machine it's amazing that a Republican gets elected to any Federal Office, that's the telling thing. Even with all the Democrat fraud and corruption enough of the American people still see the truth to elect some Republicans.

You can't have any moral integrity in your Character and be a Democrat.


----------



## JohnL.Burke (Feb 17, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...



You flirt weird.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 17, 2014)

Glad that rw repub dog & pony show is over. It was retch worthy


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 17, 2014)

Hi Natstew: so to avoid partisan bias, why not require federal officials to make all decisions by consensus, unless people consent to majority rule. in the case of contested elections of Bush and now Obama, no, people did NOT consent to decision made by majority but were convinced of fraud in both cases. neither president represented the entire nation but passed policies that excluded members of the opposing party. also with ACA people did NOT agree to the policy even with majority rule; based on partisan issues that were never resolved with the bill although these were clearly contested, before and after and still currently. so there should be a consensus to avoid conflict of interest in pushing partisan agenda through federal govt which is NOT equal protection or representation. if you consider both parties to represent political beliefs as I do, then imposing one against the other is clearly unconstitutional as discrimination by religion or creed. I do call this unconstitutional. I believe in consensus on policy to avoid all conflicts of interest, political religious financial or otherwise. I don't see how else to guarantee equal protection and representation without resolving all objections and grievances so people feel that the laws represent them and they consent to them as a contract. otherwise we keep having the political bullying and deadlocks from trying to bypass democratic due process and force things by coercion. that undermines consent of the governed and the entire democratic process of representation and checks and balances against abuse of political power to favor private interests or biases.

example of a well written law passed through Congress by consensus:
code of ethics for govt service, posted at http://www.ethics-commission

so if all policies had to be this well written where it is unanimous, there is clearly
no partisan abuse of majority rule to impose policies that contain unresolved conflict or bias.

Yes, to answer your question, i do think this is possible and legally necessary to use the standard of consensus to enforce Constitutional equal inclusion, representation and protection of political and religious beliefs. if there is a consensus, neither party can say the other is pushing onesided agenda. Only if they are ambivalent to a policy, and don't care either way if majority rule votes one way or another, that's not religiously imposing. but on gay marriage, health care and abortion, and other such issues, majority rule is not agreed upon if the decision goes against their beliefs. so we need consensus or separation, which I recommend managing by party. If both parties managed their own programs and policies funded by their own members, maybe we could reserve the federal govt for just the public policies that all people agree with across the board. and keep the rest of the religion and politics local to each party to work things out and fund separately instead of competing to oust the other. we can't keep paying for that.



natstew said:


> Quote from Emilyngheim,
> " I do believe that the judges' ruling in the contested case of Florida votes for Bush vs. Gore was a conflict of interest.
> clearly the court shoud not have been skewed toward Republican, but judges should have removed themselves if there was political bias or appearance of it.
> so that technically should be thrown out and redone, just because of conflicts of interest
> ...


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 17, 2014)

RESPONSE FROM CHRIS X:

I didn't say that, I said that was not the main reason she was testifying.  She was testifying because of multiple audits, by multiple governmental groups that targeted her...   You're right, in 2012 it was OSHA that fined her $20,000.00 after finding nothing serious or significant without her or husband being present.  This was after she was audited by the IRS in 2011, audited by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in 2012 & 2013.  How convenient huh?

"Beginning in 2010, the FBI contacted my nonprofit organization on six separate
occasions, wanting to cull through membership manifests in conjunction with
domestic terrorism cases. They eventually dropped all matters and have now
redacted nearly all my files."

http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Engelbrecht.pdf

Watch her testimony here on YouTube.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxcMKtsm5BU]Catherine Engelbrecht's Testimony at House of Representatives Hearing on IRS Targeting - YouTube[/ame]

If those who disagree this isn't the goverment targeting of an individual/group...   Then they won't mind being visited by the IRS, OSHA, and BATF for no particular reason.

If I misspoke, I apologize.  Don't quote me, quote her when she testified.  Information is provided in the above links.

Chris X

ChrisXradio: (Weeknights 8-10pm CST on 1070-AM KNTH)



emilynghiem said:


> =====================
> 
> Dear ChrisX:
> I posted the rebuttal as you stated regarding Engelbrecht
> ...



Dear Paperview:
I apologize also if I missquoted ChrisX. see his statement above.

the quote that said she was fined by the IRS with no wrongdoing found
came from HERMAN CAIN on his radio show website.

So I wrote him an email asking to clarify this since he interviewed her
and may have more information.

If Cain got it wrong, I will ask for a public correction and for him
to interview and expose real political fraud in Freedmen's Town,
unless he also only caters to wealthy conservatives like Engelbrecht who can afford to sue
and ignore the plight of poor black churches destroyed under Democrat political
corruption because they can't find legal help like Engelbrecht could.

Allan West and Chris X did post the video from the poor black community
in Chicago criticizing Obama. Most people won't touch that.

If they make a big deal of Engelbrecht, surely they should expose
worse cases of political fraud by Democrats.

I will keep pushing to see if Herman Cain clarifies that
statement off his website, or ask for a public apology
why he pushed that case and did nothing to expose Freedmen's Town.

After all, it is more blatant and ongoing, and national history has been destroyed
using taxpayers money misdirected by Democrats to profit their developer friends.

Chris X made his correction and backed off.
Let's see if Cain even responds to my inquiry
where did he get that statement out of her testimony.

Thanks for pointing this out.
I hope in turn I can help by bringing out more
established cases of Democrat fraud to answer
your questions as well. all this needs to come out anyway,
from both parties if taxpayers are ever going to receive
restitution for damages and debts racked up by both at public expense.

Yours truly,
Emily


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## Ellasophia (Feb 17, 2014)

It's just too easy.  No credit to the dems on this one.  If you can't make a fool out of a bagger, you need to quit.


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## Dot Com (Feb 17, 2014)

Ellasophia said:


> It's just too easy.  No credit to the dems on this one.  If you can't make a fool out of a bagger, you need to quit.



well, the Repub chairman was tossing out softball /leading questions to the voter suppressionist witnesses.


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 17, 2014)

And all the democrats were tossing out were silly accusations and a few race cards while defending the indefensible use of the IRS as a political weapon.


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## JoeB131 (Feb 18, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> And all the democrats were tossing out were silly accusations and a few race cards while defending the indefensible use of the IRS as a political weapon.



YOu mean actually enforcing the law is a "political weapon"?  

The point was, these Teabagging groups were applying for a tax exemption they weren't entitled to.  

They were NOT "Social Welfare Agencies".  They were political groups.  

Period. 

"Waaaa, you are oppressing me by not letting me commit fraud." 

And here's the thing. There was a perfectly acceptable tax exemption they were entitled to. 

But that one required them to disclose donors, as they should under the law.


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 18, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > And all the democrats were tossing out were silly accusations and a few race cards while defending the indefensible use of the IRS as a political weapon.
> ...




 They weren't enforcing the law. The IRS admitted that they had made a "mistake". Don't let facts be the enemy of your bias.


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## emilynghiem (Feb 28, 2014)

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND IRS AGREE TO GRANT TRUE THE VOTE?S TAX EXEMPT STATUS IN IRS LAWSUIT

Hi Paperview I think "fighting just to fight" occurred
because the OSHA complaint was NOT the main issue.

Above, the main issue was that the conflicts with IRS delayed the tax exempt status
until THREE YEARS later AFTER THE ELECTION (between the application filed in 2010 and but not granted until 2013).

THAT is the main political issue of "conflict of interest," not the OSHA issue.
[The liberal political organizations that filed were not scrutinized to the same degree,
but some were reported getting approved with a mere PO BOX as an address.]

As for this group being political active or biased
* yes, 501c4 can be politically active as long as 50% isn't 
so you can "interpret" that ambiguously as people interpreting Planned Parenthood as a political statement advertising abortions with everything they do, political or not

* and YES if Engelbrecht's group was targeting liberal/Democrat/Minority voting where any cheating would favor Obama, this is just as biased as her group being more targeted as conservative opposition to Obama [while liberal supportive political organizations (even ones with just a PO BOX as the address) were reported as approved without delay]
So if her group's actions delayed voting and political process, that could be "karmic
justice" why her group got delayed "till after the election" which obstructed the process

But Paperview two wrongs don't make a right. If they are both partisan targeting, why not be fair and complain about both, not celebrate one while denouncing the other.

Are you really happy about either side of this targeting going on? I'm not, and I'm a Democrat. I believe in prochoice, and can't stand political bullying that obstructs political freedom and representation.

I will post another reply regarding the specific convictions against the Democrat who voted multiple times, since you asked for a confirmed example of voter fraud that incites this kind of distrust of Democrat politics. It is not unfounded, but if you question people's judgment then I would also question yours in why you insist on calling Engelbrecht a bitch if that doesn't seem founded either except for emotional partisan bias.

So how is your choice of namecalling any better than the bias of the person you criticize?



paperview said:


> Are you just fighting for fights sake?
> 
> *It is a crime for OSHA employees to give unauthorized advance
> notice of an inspection. Sometimes a delay between the inspector's arrival at the workplace and the beginning of the inspection allows time for employers to change conditions."*
> ...


----------



## emilynghiem (Feb 28, 2014)

Ohioan gets 5-year prison term for illegal voting

Obama Supporting Poll Worker Voted Eight Times in Ohio | FrontPage Magazine

On Melowese Richardson, poll worker,
one article says she was convicted of voting twice in the 2012 election.

The other article explains how additional ballots for other family members
were all mailed from her address in the same handwriting, but not all confirmed.

The other incidents she was convicted of involved her voting on behalf of her
sister, comatose since 2003.

She was convicted on 4 of 8 counts negotiated down.

The other cases of voter fraud like this seem to involve family members or incapacitated persons. They seem to be used to "incite more hype" disproportionate to the cases here.

So I would agree with critics that the hype is politicized and out of proportionate on THESE cases.

But if people didn't do these crimes, then there would be nothing to hype up this way. So it still does NOT diminish voter fraud by blaming others for their reactions, or overreactions. 
This is one of the problems fraud causes, by hurting integrity and public faith in the system.
How can we blame outraged citizens for their reactions to crimes that actually occurred.

Same with the hype about profiling or incarcerating the wrong person for a crime committed by a different person. if the guilty person didn't commit the crime in the first place, there wouldn't be a risk of the "wrong person or people" getting blamed as a group. Even where there is overreaction or misplaced blame, the problem still remains that the crime should not have been committed in the first place. Why don't we focus on that?


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## Sallow (Feb 28, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
> ...



The IRS isn't incompetent. They've been given a thankless task and got caught in a political whirlwind.

First off Citizen's United opened the floodgates for every plutocrat with an agenda to fund it anonymously. Which is why there was a plethora of newly formed "Freedom" this and "Patriot" that.

Given how vastly under funded and under staffed the IRS is, they went with using that sort of filter to check on these groups.

And Lois Lerner, a Bush appointee, said so. Which of course sparked impeachment minded Republicans to go on yet another witch hunt.

By the way, according to Federal Law, all these groups are illegal.

But of course the law isn't your concern.

It's the impeachment thing that sparks your interest.


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## Sallow (Feb 28, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
> ...



They should be.


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## Dot Com (Feb 28, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > And all the democrats were tossing out were silly accusations and a few race cards while defending the indefensible use of the IRS as a political weapon.
> ...


^ that


Sallow said:


> The IRS isn't incompetent. They've been given a thankless task and got caught in a political whirlwind.
> 
> First off Citizen's United opened the floodgates for every plutocrat with an agenda to fund it anonymously. Which is why there was a plethora of newly formed "Freedom" this and "Patriot" that.
> 
> ...



and ^ that


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 28, 2014)

Sallow said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



  I agree. The IRS should be enforcing the law as opposed to creating different standards for different political groups.


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 28, 2014)

Sallow said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



   LOL! Lois Lerner said she made a mistake because the IRS was under staffed. Why didn't you say so to begin with! That changes everything! I'm assuming she said this before she took the fifth? I'm not talking about impeachment. I'm talking about finding out what exactly happened. I would be saying the same thing if Bush were president. I said the same thing when Nixon was president. My opinion comes from a principle, not a hyper partisan hypocritical  double standard buttressed by nonsensical talking points and vacuum sealed half-truths floating in a quantum state of stupid.


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## emilynghiem (Feb 28, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
> ...



Seriously, John. Since the IRS apparently can't be trusted to be nonpartisan, and since it isn't set up under the Constitution with natural check and balances with other branches of govt,
what do you think of the idea of having separating IRS systems per party to police their own members to fund their own programs? wouldn't THAT give them incentive to run it accurately since their own success and agenda is on the line?

Why not reserve the federal govt and funding for just things "all people agree with anyway" so there is no motivation to cheat.

Why not save all the rest of the hassle to localized representation where if people don't agree, they can fund their own programs separately.

What do you think of that? capping federal income tax at 10% and making the rest optional to invest in programs of choice per party, by lending or by investing where citizens are rewarded for creating solutions? if it's all private then there is no competition from hostile groups that have their own systems, so there is no reason to attack or cheat your own.

Can't political parties operate like religious organizations that build their own schools, hospitals, etc and serve the public by voluntary funding and participation? Why not?


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## Dot Com (Feb 28, 2014)

did you watch the facts presented in my OP video emily?


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## JoeB131 (Feb 28, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
> ...



And the TSA should submit 90 year old grandmothers to the same search protocols that they apply to  young middle eastern men.  

Right.


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 28, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



 I'm not sure what your point is. You want to work for the TSA so you can search your grandmother? What?


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## JohnL.Burke (Feb 28, 2014)

emilynghiem said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...



 That's a lot to take in. I'm going to have to think about your proposals for a bit. I'm all for changing the status quo though. It's obvious that something has to change.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 1, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
> ...



Well, if you don't get the point, explaining it to you doesn't help.  

Okay, who's more likely to be a terrorist on a plane. A middle eastern guy or a 90 year old grandma? 

Who's more likely to try to defraud the IRS by claiming to be a social welfare agency?  

A group with a name like "Tea Party Patriots for LIberty".  

the primary cause of this problem were all these fucking teabaggers trying to hide where their money was coming from by claiming to be social welfare agencies.   They could have filed as 527 groups, but that would have required complete disclosure. 

"Waaaaah, The IRS wouldn't let us commit obvious fraud!"


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 1, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



^ that

EVERY schoolchild knew what was going on YET the USNB Righties are righteously indignant lol


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 1, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



 I'm getting the sense that you don't like the Tea Party? Of course there is no evidence to suggest that anything you said is true. However, your real bias shows you want the IRS to treat groups with political agendas differently. You don't mind corruption as long as it's the kind of corruption you agree with. You live in a world where Mother Teresa is a ghoul and domestic terrorists like Bill Ayers are political heroes so I'm not surprised at your reaction. I AM surprised at you blatant honesty though. Most far left reactionary extremists  pretend to support the rule of law while espousing fascistic principles as they hide in the folds of Orwellian doublespeak . That's why I like you. You don't pretend that the IRS shouldn't be used as a political strong arm. You support the notion because your bias demands it. You admit it. You seem proud of it. You want to hump it like a rabid dog on a severed leg.


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## freedombecki (Mar 1, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
> ...


Too bad everybody knows Islamic jihadists have declared war on the USA except Dottie. *sigh*

Dottie, we're in the odd state of being objects of an undeclared war by people who do not like us much. In fact, if you ever defended the USA while in some circles over there, they'd burn a Christian church right after they beheaded you for an appetizer. We don't like it, but that's the way it is. Some of our nation's best warriors know this all too well, and those here who think a light hand will magically work against the threats leveled against our nation are mistaken. Any yielding is never met with any reciprocity except being considered so weak, a larger threat will be exacted next making more and more repugnant demands.

Weakening our military is Obama's biggest mistake. Men and women with military minds that are not misled by trifles know why. They've been there, experienced the treachery first-hand, know good people who died while being deceived into thinking the truce was truth. The truth is truce means cracking the door on more genocide against Americans, Israelis, and anybody who happens to be looking through the crack, namely American troops. 

 Sorry for going a little off-topic, but the comparison of a 90-year-old grandma with one who is likely to sympathize with the jihad declared privately on the other side of this planet that threatens every American over there made me bring it up. My apologies.


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## freedombecki (Mar 1, 2014)

emilynghiem said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > Sallow said:
> ...


 You raise some good points!

Unfortunately, it could further divide America by economic bracket and engender a series of incivilities, wouldn't you think? (Although it's a creative and imaginative approach to our nation's current state of divisiveness which we need). The founders gave us a system of government that promoted business to sustain individuals, with the government out of people's way. Businesses divided along social lines, and partisans began targeting their political opponents' supporters. We're in an advanced state of that right now. More divisions would put one party in control of all communications and the other in control of military and wealth. If one side goes into full throttle communist state, heads will roll, and the opposite party will be their targets. I'm sorry we're allowing other nations to divide us by becoming indebted to them. I wish I were wrong, and that we could resolve our issues as a unit of one. The first division would be followed by many others until a state of chaos would exist. We need to define government as a republic with many different states or as a strong central government that kills all opponents. Communism is a guarantee that half the population will go down, starting with business movers and shakers. Limiting wealth should also be followed with limiting social progressivism. Eliminating wealth would kill all social progressivism, and eliminating social progressivism would result in child hunger. We need to strike a balance, try harder to get along together, and reacquaint ourselves with priorities of the Republic according to the Constitution without showing favoritism based on this nation's fundamental needs, not those in which we have no and desire no control over. We don't even require our children to learn a foreign language. Could we possibly be more arrogant in the world? It could be the reason we are unpopular overseas. We cannot communicate, and we teach our children to do likewise by not requiring each high school to deliver children who know at least one language per populated continent/ island group. Desirable languages not available in many schools could be: based on population (or not):


*Top 100 Languages by Population*

Rank, Language, Name Primary Country, Population 

1 CHINESE, MANDARIN... China... 885,000,000 
.
2 SPANISH Spain 332,000,000 
.
3 ENGLISH United Kingdom 322,000,000 
.
4 BENGALI Bangladesh 189,000,000 
.
5 HINDI India 182,000,000 
.
6 PORTUGUESE Portugal 170,000,000 
.
7 RUSSIAN Russia 170,000,000 
.
8 JAPANESE Japan 125,000,000 
.
9 GERMAN, STANDARD Germany 98,000,000 
.
10 CHINESE, WU China 77,175,000 
.
11 JAVANESE Indonesia, Java, Bali 75,500,800 
.
12 KOREAN Korea, South 75,000,000 
.
13 FRENCH France 72,000,000 
.
14 VIETNAMESE Viet Nam 67,662,000 
.
15 TELUGU India 66,350,000 
.
16 CHINESE, YUE China 66,000,000 
.
17 MARATHI India 64,783,000 
.
18 TAMIL India 63,075,000 
.
19 TURKISH Turkey 59,000,000 
.
20 URDU Pakistan 58,000,000

*others, based on an update of this 1996 study, Top 100 Languages by Population

* Ethnologue Statistical Study by Language Size (389 (or nearly 6%) of the world&#8217;s languages have at least one million speakers and account for 94% of the world&#8217;s population)

One of the requirements of leadership is correct usage and understanding of language. It's just that simple. America, we are flunking by failure to communicate.


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## Dot Com (Mar 1, 2014)

freedombecki said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


ummm..... I'm a vet who served over in the Gulf prior to 43's zany/ill-concieved war/s freedombecki while you were sitting stateside drinking your mint julip.   Why do you keep forgetting this.   Is it because I'm NOT a rw, kool aid- drinking, historical revisionist like..... well..... you? 

I was an "American troop" you ditzy broad  For the last time, PLEASE stop talking about the military when you haven't served & only know what you know "second/third hand". I served & I don't appreciate your arm chair observations &/or suggestions.       [MENTION=29697]freedombecki[/MENTION] .

IOW's- SHOVE IT WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE MISSY!!!


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## birddog (Mar 1, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



First of all, thank you for your service.

Secondly, that obviously does not preclude you from being a Kool-Aid drinking, dumbass liberal who is wrong nearly all the time!

I also served, but that's beside the point.

Have a nice day.


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 1, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> [
> 
> I'm getting the sense that you don't like the Tea Party? Of course there is no evidence to suggest that anything you said is true. However, your real bias shows you want the IRS to treat groups with political agendas differently. You don't mind corruption as long as it's the kind of corruption you agree with. You live in a world where Mother Teresa is a ghoul and domestic terrorists like Bill Ayers are political heroes so I'm not surprised at your reaction. I AM surprised at you blatant honesty though. Most far left reactionary extremists  pretend to support the rule of law while espousing fascistic principles as they hide in the folds of Orwellian doublespeak . That's why I like you. You don't pretend that the IRS shouldn't be used as a political strong arm. You support the notion because your bias demands it. You admit it. You seem proud of it. You want to hump it like a rabid dog on a severed leg.



Yeah, when you see "obvious fucking fraud", i expect people to investigate it.  

These were not social welfare agencies.  They claimed to be social welfare agencies.  That's fraud. 

The Corruption was the Teabaggers trying to hide where their money was coming from.


----------



## JoeB131 (Mar 1, 2014)

freedombecki said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



First, what does any of that have to do with the Teabaggers trying to defraud the IRS, which was the point of the discussion.  

Second, the only reason why we have a problem with the Islamic world is we keep sticking our noses into their business instead of minding our own.  It's like sticking your dick in a hornet's nest and complaining about getting stung.


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## Dot Com (Mar 1, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



EXACTLY!!! Why is she inserting that into the discussion, her rw historical revisionism?


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## freedombecki (Mar 1, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> freedombecki said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


Keep your pants on, Drama Comma. Weakening America's military is Obama's biggest mistake. 

 And he made it all by himself.


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 1, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



 You're spinning like a top. Tea Party organizations applying under 501 (c)(4) status were treated differently than liberal organizations applying for the same status. They were singled out (according to the IRS) for special scrutiny. This scrutiny consisted of using a different procedure when it came to Tea Party and conservative organizations. A procedure that I have no doubt you agree with but is none the less illegal and unethical. When conservative groups are asked about donations when liberal groups aren't, well... this is what's known a corruption. Now Barrack Obama says it wasn't corruption that was at the root of the IRS illegality, Obama says boneheaded decisions were the cause. The same "boneheaded" decisions that you support and defend. Of course Obama also said that you could keep your doctor and insurance plan so I'm going to take Obama's appraisal about the IRS with a grain of salt.
 Oh by the way, not one Tea Party organization applying for 501(c)(4) status has been brought up on charges of fraud. Your rationale for excusing fraud (as long as it's the right kind of fraud) seems to be based on some sort of emotional need fed by reactionary hyper-partisanship... not reality.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 1, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> [
> You're spinning like a top. Tea Party organizations applying under 501 (c)(4) status were treated differently than liberal organizations applying for the same status. They were singled out (according to the IRS) for special scrutiny. This scrutiny consisted of using a different procedure when it came to Tea Party and conservative organizations. A procedure that I have no doubt you agree with but is none the less illegal and unethical. When conservative groups are asked about donations when liberal groups aren't, well... this is what's known a corruption. Now Barrack Obama says it wasn't corruption that was at the root of the IRS illegality, Obama says boneheaded decisions were the cause. The same "boneheaded" decisions that you support and defend. Of course Obama also said that you could keep your doctor and insurance plan so I'm going to take Obama's appraisal about the IRS with a grain of salt.
> Oh by the way, not one Tea Party organization applying for 501(c)(4) status has been brought up on charges of fraud. Your rationale for excusing fraud (as long as it's the right kind of fraud) seems to be based on some sort of emotional need fed by reactionary hyper-partisanship... not reality.



Um, yeah, they were treated to extra scrutiny because their claims were unbelievable. 

When your answer to an uninsured man is "LET HIM DIE!!!!", it's really hard for any reasonable person to think you are a social welfare agency.  

In fact, the Tea Party claiming to be Social Welfare is kind of like Jeff Dahmner trying to claim he's a _Sous Chef_.  you'd really need to take such claims with a grain of salt.  

Now, yeah, Obama is kind of a wuss and trying to just get along.  Frankly, Hillary would have charged these fuckers with fraud and outed the Koch Brother's mistresses.  Which is frankly, the only way we should deal with you people at this point.


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 1, 2014)

Nobody claimed that conservative groups were targeted because their claims were unbelievable. That was certainly not the IRS's claims and they were the ones doing the targeting. 
 The rest of your rant is just incoherent.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 2, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> Nobody claimed that conservative groups were targeted because their claims were unbelievable. That was certainly not the IRS's claims and they were the ones doing the targeting.
> The rest of your rant is just incoherent.



Gee, guy, most people don't state the obvious. 

The Tea Party was trying to commit fraud.  Which is understandable, the Tea Party has been a fraud from day 1.  

Seriously, calling yourself "Taxed Enough Already" when most Americans got a tax break from Obama is kind of silly.  

Now, if they had called themselved, "Get the N****r out of the White House Party", that would have been honest.


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## Dot Com (Mar 2, 2014)

freedombecki said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > freedombecki said:
> ...



weakening it? *All by himself huh* sugar tits? Do you know anything about prioritization of military assets?  ANYTHING!!!  I thought as much. Enough w/ your armchair quarterbacking  You're a making yourself look foolish  O is prioritizing cyber warfare and unmanned aerial aircraft (where the future lies dummy) *IN CONSULTATION WITH *his national security council. Just because you may know someone in the military doesn't mean jack shiite about military chain of command and prioritization.  Dismissed Private.

Keep digging becki. Go on lol


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## Dot Com (Mar 2, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



^ that


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 2, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody claimed that conservative groups were targeted because their claims were unbelievable. That was certainly not the IRS's claims and they were the ones doing the targeting.
> ...



  Your argument is unraveling of course. It usually does. Every statement you pretended was a fact, I have debunked. You still insist that the Tea Party was trying to commit fraud even though the IRS never accused them of trying to commit fraud. You even claim that most Americans got a tax break from Obama when Obamacare is the largest tax increase this country has ever seen. To pretend otherwise is kind of silly.
 Then lastly, in a futile attempt to hold onto an ever unraveling thought process that gets frayed every time a FACT gets in the way ... you just gotta play the race card. It's really all you have in the end, isn't it?  The fact that you blame the jews for everything under the sun makes your race card defecation even dumber than usual.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 2, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> Your argument is unraveling of course. It usually does. Every statement you pretended was a fact, I have debunked. You still insist that the Tea Party was trying to commit fraud even though the IRS never accused them of trying to commit fraud. You even claim that most Americans got a tax break from Obama when Obamacare is the largest tax increase this country has ever seen. To pretend otherwise is kind of silly.
> Then lastly, in a futile attempt to hold onto an ever unraveling thought process that gets frayed every time a FACT gets in the way ... you just gotta play the race card. It's really all you have in the end, isn't it?  The fact that you blame the jews for everything under the sun makes your race card defecation even dumber than usual.



Most Americans got a tax break when the TEA party was formed.  And sorry, man, I haven't seen that ObamaCare Tax increase and neither has anyone else outside Wingnut Fantasy Land. 

Fact was, the IRS gave the Teabaggers scrutiny because they merited scrutiny.  And now they are codifying the scrutiny into the tax code so they can't pull that shit again. 

In short. 

YOU LOSE.  

Oh,I blame the ZIONISTS (not the Jews, who are kind of embarrassed by the whole Zionism thing at this point) for the wars in the Middle East.  Which they are totally responsible for.


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 4, 2014)

You haven't seen any tax increases with Obamacare? You do know that Obamacare IS a tax right? 
 You can also repeat yourself as often as you want ( your version of a debate) but it doesn't change the fact that the Tea Party didn't do anything wrong when the IRS targeted Tea Party affiliated groups. If you want to disagree with the IRS and simply depend on a warped visceral hatred of all things conservative then go ahead. No big deal. The facts are still on my side. 
 As for your warped visceral hatred of all things Zionist I'm going to agree with MLK  on this point...
  "When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking about anti-semitism"
                                                                                          - Martin Luther King Jr.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> You haven't seen any tax increases with Obamacare? You do know that Obamacare IS a tax right?
> You can also repeat yourself as often as you want ( your version of a debate) but it doesn't change the fact that the Tea Party didn't do anything wrong when the IRS targeted Tea Party affiliated groups. If you want to disagree with the IRS and simply depend on a warped visceral hatred of all things conservative then go ahead. No big deal. The facts are still on my side.
> As for your warped visceral hatred of all things Zionist I'm going to agree with MLK  on this point...
> "When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking about anti-semitism"
> - Martin Luther King Jr.



ObamaCare is only a tax if you are someone who refuses to buy health insurance. 

The Tea Party exists.  That's wrong enough for me.  Another bunch of poor dumb white people dancing to the strings of Plutocrats. Fact is they tried to commit fraud, and they got caught. Most of these groups STILL didn't get their exemption and never will. 

Actually, a lot of Jews are embarrassed by Zionism.  If Dr. King had lived to see what Israel has turned into, he'd be the first one standing up for the Palestinians.


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## paperview (Mar 4, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> ...
> As for your warped visceral hatred of all things Zionist I'm going to agree with MLK  on this point...
> "When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking about anti-semitism"
> - Martin Luther King Jr.


Except there is no proof King ever uttered that quote.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2014)

paperview said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Holy cow, you are right. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qKcJF4fOPs]It's a faaaaaake - YouTube[/ame]

CAMERA: Hoax: Martin Luther King's "Letter to an anti-Zionist Friend"

Fraud fit for a King: Israel, Zionism, and the misuse of MLK | The Electronic Intifada

It always amazes me when Wingnuts try to hijack Dr. King for their own purposes. 

But as Abraham Lincoln once said, "90% of all quotes on the internet are fake!"


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 4, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> paperview said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
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 Holy cow! You're an idiot! I know the usual anti semitic types tried to denounce Martin Luther King's quote as a fraud just as you pretend that the IRS charged the Tea Party groups with fraud. The anti-semitic types try to conflate a widely circulated hoax letter with Martin Luther King's comments at Harvard University. You're so angry that truth becomes just another thing to be angry about. You really need to relax. Perhaps meet a nice girls at the next Aryan Nation dance.


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 4, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > You haven't seen any tax increases with Obamacare? You do know that Obamacare IS a tax right?
> ...



 Sorry, but you're not really making any sense. Obamacare is a tax EVEN if you refuse to buy health insurance (which in now mandatory). 
 I'm also not really concerned what an anti-semite thinks about Israel. That's a conversation not worth having.


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## bedowin62 (Mar 4, 2014)

left-wing nutjobs blaming all PROGRESSIVE FAILURES; and the failed left-wing president's failures on the tiny Tea Party

then having the gall to call others whiners?


bwahahahahahahaahahahahahahaahahaaa!


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## bedowin62 (Mar 4, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
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dont mind ol LWNJ Joe; he's a racist o-bot


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## bedowin62 (Mar 4, 2014)

the Tea Party isnt the reason obama is a failure; isnt the reason the Left-wing agenda has failed


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## Howey (Mar 4, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
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So anti-Zionists are now anti-Semites?


Take it from a Jew. There are more of us opposed to the neocon ways of Israel than favor it. Far more....


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## bedowin62 (Mar 4, 2014)

NTG said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



there are?

i feel Israel will be around long after you and all of those opposed to Israel's "neocon" ways are long gone


hee hee


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## bedowin62 (Mar 4, 2014)

the only Jews embarrassed by Zionism are on the lunatic far-Left; or, ironically on the far-Right; the anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews; who are pretty much the Taliban of Jews


idiots and hypocrites


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## emilynghiem (Mar 4, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > You haven't seen any tax increases with Obamacare? You do know that Obamacare IS a tax right?
> ...



Dear JoeB: Obama took advantage of the hybrid/dual set up of this system, to sell it as both a tax and not a tax, depending on context and political convenience.

1. to pass it through Congress, it was pushed as YOU stated "not a tax" but reforms on health care

2. to pass it by the Supreme Court it WAS SOLD AS A TAX, this was the only reason the Court found it Constitutional, because it did NOT on the commerce clause.
So it was ruled constitutional as a tax, where the tax is imposed on all people and the EXEMPTIONS are for purchasing health insurance "that meets the requirements in the bill" and/or "religious exemptions" which equate to federal govt regulating on the basis of religion, deciding which views count or don't count. 

And clearly there is discrimination here where people "who believe in other ways for paying for health care" DON'T COUNT as an exempted view, where "belief in the free market" does NOT COUNT as a legal way to pay to avoid the tax. So free choice how to pay for health care is punished with a tax, without any proof or due process to show this person had ill, criminal or fraudulent intent "not to pay."

Joe, if your argument were so, that it is ONLY A TAX ON PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE IN HEALTH INSURANCE MANDATES, that is CLEARLY discrimination by religion/creed:
1. you are approving a tax only on people of a specific religious or political view, ie who believe in Constitutional or natural liberty to pay for health care without federal mandates forcing insurance as the only way to avoid the tax (or else be Amish or approved religions)
2. you are approving "taxation without representation" by imposing this tax on people who did not agree to the terms of the business contract with private insurance

so by your interpretation, this is clearly targeting a particular group to punish with a tax that isn't applied to people with other beliefs; despite the vocal and established protests and objections that prove the people being taxed did not consent and aren't represented.

Joe is this really what you believe in?
Imposing a tax on just the people who dissent because of conflicting beliefs,
ignoring the fact this is taxation without representation?

Would you support a prolife bill taxing people who believe in choosing abortion,
while prolife people who would never have abortions anyway aren't affected?

Really? Because many prolife people might like that idea, and not have to pay for any birth control, abortions or consequences of sex outside of marriage for the purpose of procreation.

Joe do you really want to support a trend of taxing people based on their religious beliefs
while exempting others? Because that's what this sounds like to me. Scary!


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## emilynghiem (Mar 4, 2014)

paperview said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...




Hi Paperview: I tried to look this one up, and it seems a yes/no situation.
Yes, it appears he said that to someone,
but the interpretation may be more subtle than how people use this out of context.

From what I understand, there are EXTREME Zionists called
"post-millenial dispensationalists" who are into the Apocalypse/Armageddon
being an all out war to destroy the planet to bring the coming of Christ.
They are the equivalent of Jihadists, which the Muslims denounce as not Islam.
So these EXTREMISTS are as far off the map, and disowned by JudeoChristians.
They literally want to wipe out Muslims and bring Christ to preach at the dome of
the rock by violence.

So unless we agree WHICH ZIONISTS we are criticizing,
we are not talking about the same thing. Just like people
who blame Muslims when they mean Jihadists terrorists,
and end up campaigning against "all Muslims" which isn't accurate.

This causes similar confusion if people are against "Jihadists,"
does this mean they are against Muslims? We need to distinguish
better which particular political factions we are referring to.

=============================================
Douglas Anthony Cooper: Sorry, Dr. King Did Not Consider You An Enlightened Anti-Zionist. Deal With It.



			
				HuffPost said:
			
		

> It is painful to be called an anti-Semite by a deceased saint. Yet the dead speak, even when we wish they'd keep their thoughts to themselves. There is a tremendous effort to deny that Martin Luther King ever said these words: "When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism."
> 
> Unfortunately, he did. He said them at a dinner party in Cambridge (as quoted by Seymour Martin Lipset in Encounter magazine, December 1969, p. 24)
> 
> ...



here is my favorite quote from Dr. King Jr.:

*"Men often hate each other because they fear each other; they fear each other because they don't know each other; they don't know each other because they can not communicate; they can not communicate because they are separated."*

I like it because 1. it identifies fear as the common cause instead of blaming any one person or group since we are all affected by this factor of fear and separation 2. this applies to any form of prejudice dividing people, not just racial or religious, but any conflict causing people to take sides and demonizing the other out of fear 3. this problem can be solved. fear can be overcome with love, ignorance by understanding, anger and greed for control by compassion and mutual correction, sharing credit for common solutions.

So this factor of fear and unforgiveness can be isolated and addressed, removed from the equation so the sides can balance their interests at stake and work things out. Thank you and others here for making that process work.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> [
> 
> 
> Holy cow! You're an idiot! I know the usual anti semitic types tried to denounce Martin Luther King's quote as a fraud just as you pretend that the IRS charged the Tea Party groups with fraud. The anti-semitic types try to conflate a widely circulated hoax letter with Martin Luther King's comments at Harvard University. You're so angry that truth becomes just another thing to be angry about. You really need to relax. Perhaps meet a nice girls at the next Aryan Nation dance.



The truth is Dr. King never would have advocated white people from Europe driving brown people off their own land because "God" said so.  

It would make a mockery of everything he stood for.  

Truth is, he never said such a thing.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> [
> 
> Sorry, but you're not really making any sense. Obamacare is a tax EVEN if you refuse to buy health insurance (which in now mandatory).
> I'm also not really concerned what an anti-semite thinks about Israel. That's a conversation not worth having.



Guy, really getting bored with chasing you down whatever crazy rabbit holes you are running down... 

I have no problem with "semites". I find the concept of not supporting Zionism as "anti-Semitism" to be ludicrous, as the Arabs/Palestinians are also a Semitic people.  So you guys throw around insults that you don't even know the meaning of the words.  

Let's call Zionism what it is- Apartheid.  Go into a country, conquer the native people, treat them as second class citizens until they finally throw you out or overthrow you.  

What give Zionism that extra dollop of stupid is that they think a Magic Fairy In the Sky told them this was cool.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 4, 2014)

emilynghiem said:


> [
> 
> Dear JoeB: Obama took advantage of the hybrid/dual set up of this system, to sell it as both a tax and not a tax, depending on context and political convenience.
> 
> ...



Emily, you are making John sound relatively coherent, and that's an accomplishment. 

Let's put this all in the proper prespective.  I think the mechanism for ObamaCare is kind of a mess.  We should have gone to a single payer system and been done with it, instead of building yet another level on top of the already convoluted system of employers, insurers and government subsidies and tax credits to make it all work. 

I also get a bit tired of people trying to find "religious" reasons to not comply with the law.  Take for instance, Hobby Lobby.  They, really, really hate Abortion, so that they won't pay for IUD's or Morning After pills for their employees.  But  Hobby Lobby gets 93% of its product from vendors that manufacture in China, where they've performed 300 million abortions and enforce a brutal "one-Child" policy where women are compelled to abort their second pregnancies or face fines and worse.  Sex Selection Abortions are common.  But Hobby Lobby doesn't care about this. 

ObamaCare is a patch over an already dysfunctional system that treats health care like a consumer commodity instead of a public service, which is how the rest of the world treats it, and rightfully so.


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 5, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



 You might think that people who worship a "magic fairy in the sky" is stupid but claiming that domestic terrorist Bill Ayers is a hero is insane.
 You have a problem with Zionism but not domestic terrorism (as long as it's the right kind of terrorism). Grasp irony much?
 You claim "Zionism" has created all the wars in the middle east. Trust me, you're an anti-semite. You're not really fooling anybody.


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 5, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > [
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 Except that he did. You really shouldn't attempt to describe people through the prism of your own irrational hatred. It cheapens the people you defend.


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## Dot Com (Mar 5, 2014)

bedowin62 said:


> the only Jews embarrassed by Zionism are on the lunatic far-Left; or, ironically on the far-Right; the anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews; who are pretty much the Taliban of Jews
> 
> 
> idiots and hypocrites





you are one strange little man. The ultra Orthodox jews oppose the forcible existence of a jewish state because their books say that they shall have no earthly kingdom. 

back to topic people!!!


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## JoeB131 (Mar 5, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> You might think that people who worship a "magic fairy in the sky" is stupid but claiming that domestic terrorist Bill Ayers is a hero is insane.



Never said he was a hero. I just don't wet myself because he blew up an ugly statue. 




JohnL.Burke said:


> You have a problem with Zionism but not domestic terrorism (as long as it's the right kind of terrorism). Grasp irony much?



Again, Bin Laden was a "Freedom Fighter" when he killed Russians and a "Terrorist" when he killed Americans. It's just a matter of labels and you know it. 





JohnL.Burke said:


> You claim "Zionism" has created all the wars in the middle east. Trust me, you're an anti-semite. You're not really fooling anybody.



Yes, it causes wars when the people who BELONG in the Middle East don't want these EUROPEAN invaders on their land. 

A bunch of "Semites" (Arabs are Semites, too!) killing each other over whose magic sky fairy has the biggest dick is kind of silly.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 5, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> [
> 
> Except that he did. You really shouldn't attempt to describe people through the prism of your own hatred. It cheapens the people you defend.



Except he didn't. That letter is a hoax.  

Seriously, fuck the Zionists. A happy day when their fellow "Semites" Drive their asses into the sea.


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 5, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



 Nobody is talking about the hoax letter. We're talking about what King said in a college. Trying to conflate the two in a silly attempt at revisionism is obvious and dull.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 5, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
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Whatever, guy, was never said. Never recorded. Never on a letter.  Completely contradicts everything we know about the man.  

I supposed that he should be flattered that wingnuts who went around calling him a "communist" 30 years ago are trying to make him one of their own today.


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 5, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > You might think that people who worship a "magic fairy in the sky" is stupid but claiming that domestic terrorist Bill Ayers is a hero is insane.
> ...



   You do know jews were kicked out of Israel, right? Oh God, what did I start? I'm having a discussion about Israel with an "anti-Zionist". Forget I said anything. 
  Really? You're going to pretend that Bill Ayers only blew up a statue? Didn't I already force you to admit he had done a hell of a lot more than that? I know I did.


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 5, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



  Why do you just keep repeating yourself? Yes, some on the right called King a communist. So did some on the left (even though they meant it as a compliment).
  I'm glad that we finally managed to move on from the hoax letter though. That was getting annoying.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 5, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> [quot
> 
> You do know jews were kicked out of Israel, right? Oh God, what did I start? I'm having a discussion about Israel with an "anti-Zionist". Forget I said anything.
> Really? You're going to pretend that Bill Ayers only blew up a statue? Didn't I already force you to admit he had done a hell of a lot more than that? I know I did.



Guy, you wingnuts are the only ones who still give a fuck what Bill Ayers and Jane Fonda did. 

The JUDEANS got kicked out of Palestine by the Romans, because they kept rebelling against Roman rule.  The ARABS let them move back in.  

And then the British set them up to be their imperial proxies. 

Sorry, you lose claims after 2000 years.  You really do. 

Point is, that was Arab Land for 1500 years.  The Zionists are European invaders, and unwelcome ones at that.  The Arabs WILL eventually drive them out, and we will all be better off for it.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 5, 2014)

JohnL.Burke said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnL.Burke said:
> ...



Well, you haven't "moved on".  You got your ass handed to you by Paperview, and you keep insisting King was a Zionist.


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## bedowin62 (Mar 5, 2014)

pretty funny; the left cant stop whining about the Tea Party; but thinks they can be "taken apart" by one whiny Dem.

lol


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## bedowin62 (Mar 5, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



you cant hand anybody's ass to them;  your whole agenda is failing as we speak; and you leader has never been a leader


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## JoeB131 (Mar 5, 2014)

hey, Bedwetter, get back to us when you've mastered basic composition, okay?


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## bedowin62 (Mar 5, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> hey, Bedwetter, get back to us when you've mastered basic composition, okay?





really? is that the best you have?


lol


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## bedowin62 (Mar 5, 2014)

you probably wont see the day when anybody is driven into the see; so happy days are right now! lol

anyway the whole agenda of the Left is failing; and it is only a matter of time before failed progressives are driven back to their ivory towers


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## JoeB131 (Mar 5, 2014)

bedowin62 said:


> you probably wont see the day when anybody is driven into the see; so happy days are right now! lol
> 
> anyway the whole agenda of the Left is failing; and it is only a matter of time before failed progressives are driven back to their ivory towers



I probably won't because I'm old.  

But Israel is doomed. Demagraphics are not their friend, and eventually, the Arabs WILL be the majority.  

As for the Liberal Conservative thing, Conservatives haven't won an honest election since 1988.  

There just aren't enough angry old white guys to keep it afloat.


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## Samson (Mar 5, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> bedowin62 said:
> 
> 
> > you probably wont see the day when anybody is driven into the see; so happy days are right now! lol
> ...



When Blacks, Hispanics, and Women become the 1%, it won't be white guys who are the only conservatives.

Libs better continue their Free Cheese Programs to keep minority groups from gaining wealth.


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## JoeB131 (Mar 5, 2014)

Samson said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > bedowin62 said:
> ...



Guy, the only thing keeping working folks from gaining wealth is the greed of the 1%.  

Hating on the guy who has a little less than you do is counter productive.


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## JohnL.Burke (Mar 5, 2014)

JoeB131 said:


> JohnL.Burke said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



 I don't recall any ass handling but I'm going to assume you made that up too since you also made up the accusation that I said King was a Zionist. Seriously, buy a beer from a non Jewish establishment and mellow out. You worry me sometimes. Hug?


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