# Reductio ad absurdum, or  "I want"



## Martin Eden Mercury

Reductio ad absurdum, or  I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born.

Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Islam. Without Islam, we'd have no Islamic radicals. Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no Scott Roeders. who is Scott Roeder? Without ignorance we all know who Scot Roeder is.

Without Hebrews, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no anti-Semites. Without Christianity we'd have no Christian Identity movement. Without Hebrews and Christianity, the Confederacy would have had no biblical argument for justifying the slavery of Africans. Without Christianity, many Americans ( and others worldwide), would not have had their lives unjustly taken away by terrorists using their own interpretations from readings of the Judeo-Christian Bible, to justify atrocity. Without Christians who claim a personal relationship to Jesus the Christ, there would be less death in the world. Without Hebrews, there'd be no trouble in Palestine, because without Hebrews, Palestine as we know it, would never have existed.

I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.


----------



## Maggdy

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Reductio ad absurdum, or  I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born.
> 
> Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Islam. Without Islam, we'd have no Islamic radicals. Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no Scott Roeders. who is Scott Roeder? Without ignorance we all know who Scot Roeder is.
> 
> Without Hebrews, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no anti-Semites. Without Christianity we'd have no Christian Identity movement. Without Hebrews and Christianity, the Confederacy would have had no biblical argument for justifying the slavery of Africans. Without Christianity, many Americans ( and others worldwide), would not have had their lives unjustly taken away by terrorists using their own interpretations from readings of the Judeo-Christian Bible, to justify atrocity. Without Christians who claim a personal relationship to Jesus the Christ, there would be less death in the world. Without Hebrews, there'd be no trouble in Palestine, because without Hebrews, Palestine as we know it, would never have existed.
> 
> I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.



I can not open a website " Christian Identity".







I tried to delete a part of "http - Google Search" but the link still does not work.


----------



## Alex.

Maggdy said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reductio ad absurdum, or  I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born.
> 
> Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Islam. Without Islam, we'd have no Islamic radicals. Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no Scott Roeders. who is Scott Roeder? Without ignorance we all know who Scot Roeder is.
> 
> Without Hebrews, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no anti-Semites. Without Christianity we'd have no Christian Identity movement. Without Hebrews and Christianity, the Confederacy would have had no biblical argument for justifying the slavery of Africans. Without Christianity, many Americans ( and others worldwide), would not have had their lives unjustly taken away by terrorists using their own interpretations from readings of the Judeo-Christian Bible, to justify atrocity. Without Christians who claim a personal relationship to Jesus the Christ, there would be less death in the world. Without Hebrews, there'd be no trouble in Palestine, because without Hebrews, Palestine as we know it, would never have existed.
> 
> I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can not open a website " Christian Identity".
> 
> View attachment 69120
> 
> 
> I tried to delete a part of "http - Google Search" but the link still does not work.
> 
> View attachment 69121
Click to expand...

I researched the term this is what I came up with:


*"Doctrines*: a theological system centered on a racist/anti-Semitic and white supremacy. It seems to use religious arguments to justify political agendas.

*Practices*:
_Structure--_The movement does not have a centralized organizational structure but has groups in most every Western nation.
_Recruitment--_through extreme right-wing churches, survival groups, and word of mouth.
_Adherents--_generally are Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nation, Nazi Party, White Separatists groups, etc.

*Texts*: Old and New Testaments of the Bible. Some think sections of the U.S. Constitution were divinely inspired."


https://carm.org/christian-identity-movement


----------



## starfish1950

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Reductio ad absurdum, or  I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born.
> 
> Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Islam. Without Islam, we'd have no Islamic radicals. Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no Scott Roeders. who is Scott Roeder? Without ignorance we all know who Scot Roeder is.
> 
> Without Hebrews, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no anti-Semites. Without Christianity we'd have no Christian Identity movement. Without Hebrews and Christianity, the Confederacy would have had no biblical argument for justifying the slavery of Africans. Without Christianity, many Americans ( and others worldwide), would not have had their lives unjustly taken away by terrorists using their own interpretations from readings of the Judeo-Christian Bible, to justify atrocity. Without Christians who claim a personal relationship to Jesus the Christ, there would be less death in the world. Without Hebrews, there'd be no trouble in Palestine, because without Hebrews, Palestine as we know it, would never have existed.
> 
> I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.


----------



## Dogmaphobe

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> I know this sounds a bit absurd.




Well, at least you were right about one thing.


----------



## Alex.

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Reductio ad absurdum, or  I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born.
> 
> Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Islam. Without Islam, we'd have no Islamic radicals. Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no Scott Roeders. who is Scott Roeder? Without ignorance we all know who Scot Roeder is.
> 
> Without Hebrews, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no anti-Semites. Without Christianity we'd have no Christian Identity movement. Without Hebrews and Christianity, the Confederacy would have had no biblical argument for justifying the slavery of Africans. Without Christianity, many Americans ( and others worldwide), would not have had their lives unjustly taken away by terrorists using their own interpretations from readings of the Judeo-Christian Bible, to justify atrocity. Without Christians who claim a personal relationship to Jesus the Christ, there would be less death in the world. Without Hebrews, there'd be no trouble in Palestine, because without Hebrews, Palestine as we know it, would never have existed.
> 
> I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.


Take away Abraham, Hebrew and Islam and society is still left with the "Scott Roeders" of the world and  the gang mentality that wants to cast down others and hate. The acts that you are complaining about are borne from being a human being not due to a religious belief system.

The words,ideals and doctrines that are held in high esteem are not what cause a violent act to take place or a group or individual to hate another person, way of life or lifestyle. Each act is based in fear and can be traced to one or more of the following: Pride, Envy, Anger, Gluttony, Lust, Sloth and Greed. The "religious" or other belief system is merely a conduit and brings people together to form the group that will facilitate the hateful act.

For someone to commit a murder or serious crime there is more than the religious belief or the aforementioned character defect there must be the absence of conscience, the one committing by definition has no regard for the rights of others which far exceeds and word they would have listened to or belief they may have held.

Notwithstanding the narrow definition of what Abraham, Hebrew and Islam represent, those people or ideals  are not what cause  the abominable  acts against their targets, it is those who contour those people or beliefs for their own purposes.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind


Theists must take great care to not run afoul of a logical fallacy, as indeed most are prone to do.

Reductio ad Absurdum:

_‘I am going into surgery tomorrow so please pray for me.  If enough people pray for me, God will protect me from harm and see to it that I have a successful surgery and speedy recovery._

Explanation: We first assume the premise is true: if “enough” people prayed to God for her successful surgery and speedy recovery, then God would make it so.  From this, we can deduce that God responds to popular opinion.  However, if God simply granted prayers based on popularity contests, that would be both unjust and absurd.  Since God cannot be unjust, then he cannot both respond to popularity and not respond to popularity, the claim is absurd, and thus false.’

Reductio ad Absurdum


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Maggdy said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reductio ad absurdum, or  I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born.
> 
> Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Islam. Without Islam, we'd have no Islamic radicals. Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no Scott Roeders. who is Scott Roeder? Without ignorance we all know who Scot Roeder is.
> 
> Without Hebrews, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no anti-Semites. Without Christianity we'd have no Christian Identity movement. Without Hebrews and Christianity, the Confederacy would have had no biblical argument for justifying the slavery of Africans. Without Christianity, many Americans ( and others worldwide), would not have had their lives unjustly taken away by terrorists using their own interpretations from readings of the Judeo-Christian Bible, to justify atrocity. Without Christians who claim a personal relationship to Jesus the Christ, there would be less death in the world. Without Hebrews, there'd be no trouble in Palestine, because without Hebrews, Palestine as we know it, would never have existed.
> 
> I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can not open a website " Christian Identity".
> 
> View attachment 69120
> 
> 
> I tried to delete a part of "http - Google Search" but the link still does not work.
> 
> View attachment 69121
Click to expand...

apologies

US Domestic Terrorism: Christian Identity


----------



## Maggdy

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reductio ad absurdum, or  I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born.
> 
> Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Islam. Without Islam, we'd have no Islamic radicals. Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no Scott Roeders. who is Scott Roeder? Without ignorance we all know who Scot Roeder is.
> 
> Without Hebrews, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no anti-Semites. Without Christianity we'd have no Christian Identity movement. Without Hebrews and Christianity, the Confederacy would have had no biblical argument for justifying the slavery of Africans. Without Christianity, many Americans ( and others worldwide), would not have had their lives unjustly taken away by terrorists using their own interpretations from readings of the Judeo-Christian Bible, to justify atrocity. Without Christians who claim a personal relationship to Jesus the Christ, there would be less death in the world. Without Hebrews, there'd be no trouble in Palestine, because without Hebrews, Palestine as we know it, would never have existed.
> 
> I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can not open a website " Christian Identity".
> 
> View attachment 69120
> 
> 
> I tried to delete a part of "http - Google Search" but the link still does not work.
> 
> View attachment 69121
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> apologies
> 
> US Domestic Terrorism: Christian Identity
Click to expand...


No problem


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind


Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.


----------



## Maggdy

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
Click to expand...


My opinion that there is little misunderstanding. I do not want to prove anything. I'm member one for generation who grew up without God in Europe. ( so-called in red country)

What's the problem with religion? In my opinion, the problem is not the religion, but a few faithful who are rational arguments instead replied, "God is with me". 

I'm skeptic. Or God exist or God not exist. Possible both, but me not really interest it. Sorry


----------



## Ringel05

Maggdy said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My opinion that there is little misunderstanding. I do not want to prove anything. I'm member one for generation who grew up without God in Europe. ( so-called in red country)
> 
> What's the problem with religion? In my opinion, the problem is not the religion, but a few faithful who are rational arguments instead replied, "God is with me".
> 
> I'm skeptic. Or God exist or God not exist. Possible both, but me not really interest it. Sorry
Click to expand...

Some people who claim not to believe in God do everything to denigrate and demean those who do, like it's personal and it probably is to them.  They make excuses that Christians brought the disdain upon themselves but that's not really true, only a small number of Christians might have done that but the whole are attacked. just like many do with the Muslim religion these days.  What they're really doing is try more to convince themselves that God doesn't exist by attacking religion, Christians and Christianity most often, instead of just choosing to believe or not and letting it alone.


----------



## Ringel05

Maggdy said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My opinion that there is little misunderstanding. I do not want to prove anything. I'm member one for generation who grew up without God in Europe. ( so-called in red country)
> 
> What's the problem with religion? In my opinion, the problem is not the religion, but a few faithful who are rational arguments instead replied, "God is with me".
> 
> I'm skeptic. Or God exist or God not exist. Possible both, but me not really interest it. Sorry
Click to expand...

Some people who claim not to believe in God do everything to denigrate and demean those who do, like it's personal and it probably is to them.  They make excuses that Christians brought the disdain upon themselves but that's not really true, only a small number of Christians might have done that but the whole are attacked. just like many do with the Muslim religion these days.  What they're really doing is trying more to convince themselves that God doesn't exist by attacking religion, Christians and Christianity most often, instead of just choosing to believe or not and letting it alone.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
Click to expand...

Do Atheists have to prove god does not exist? Does not proving a god does not exist, prove  a god exists?


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My opinion that there is little misunderstanding. I do not want to prove anything. I'm member one for generation who grew up without God in Europe. ( so-called in red country)
> 
> What's the problem with religion? In my opinion, the problem is not the religion, but a few faithful who are rational arguments instead replied, "God is with me".
> 
> I'm skeptic. Or God exist or God not exist. Possible both, but me not really interest it. Sorry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some people who claim not to believe in God do everything to denigrate and demean those who do, like it's personal and it probably is to them.  They make excuses that Christians brought the disdain upon themselves but that's not really true, only a small number of Christians might have done that but the whole are attacked. just like many do with the Muslim religion these days.  What they're really doing is try more to convince themselves that God doesn't exist by attacking religion, Christians and Christianity most often, instead of just choosing to believe or not and letting it alone.
Click to expand...

Some people who claim to believe in God do everything to denigrate and demean those who do not, like it's personal and it probably is to them. 

They make excuses that non believers brought the disdain upon themselves, but that's not really true. only a small number of Christians might have done that but the whole are attacked. Most Christians condemn those who do not get baptized; even little children


----------



## Maggdy

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My opinion that there is little misunderstanding. I do not want to prove anything. I'm member one for generation who grew up without God in Europe. ( so-called in red country)
> 
> What's the problem with religion? In my opinion, the problem is not the religion, but a few faithful who are rational arguments instead replied, "God is with me".
> 
> I'm skeptic. Or God exist or God not exist. Possible both, but me not really interest it. Sorry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some people who claim not to believe in God do everything to denigrate and demean those who do, like it's personal and it probably is to them.  They make excuses that Christians brought the disdain upon themselves but that's not really true, only a small number of Christians might have done that but the whole are attacked. just like many do with the Muslim religion these days.  What they're really doing is try more to convince themselves that God doesn't exist by attacking religion, Christians and Christianity most often, instead of just choosing to believe or not and letting it alone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some people who claim to believe in God do everything to denigrate and demean those who do not, like it's personal and it probably is to them.
> 
> They make excuses that non believers brought the disdain upon themselves, but that's not really true. only a small number of Christians might have done that but the whole are attacked. Most Christians condemn those who do not get baptized; even little children
Click to expand...


The church signify rather only the opportunities of job. There are people (priests) who organize the Christian ceremonies. They need a lot Christenings and weddings, that is why they receive the pay is.


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do Atheists have to prove god does not exist? Does not proving a god does not exist, prove  a god exists?
Click to expand...

Some Atheists seem to think they have to prove God doesn't exist but you're missing the crux of the proof problem and any form of "logic" will not prove or disprove.


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maggdy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My opinion that there is little misunderstanding. I do not want to prove anything. I'm member one for generation who grew up without God in Europe. ( so-called in red country)
> 
> What's the problem with religion? In my opinion, the problem is not the religion, but a few faithful who are rational arguments instead replied, "God is with me".
> 
> I'm skeptic. Or God exist or God not exist. Possible both, but me not really interest it. Sorry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some people who claim not to believe in God do everything to denigrate and demean those who do, like it's personal and it probably is to them.  They make excuses that Christians brought the disdain upon themselves but that's not really true, only a small number of Christians might have done that but the whole are attacked. just like many do with the Muslim religion these days.  What they're really doing is try more to convince themselves that God doesn't exist by attacking religion, Christians and Christianity most often, instead of just choosing to believe or not and letting it alone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some people who claim to believe in God do everything to denigrate and demean those who do not, like it's personal and it probably is to them.
> 
> They make excuses that non believers brought the disdain upon themselves, but that's not really true. only a small number of Christians might have done that but the whole are attacked. Most Christians condemn those who do not get baptized; even little children
Click to expand...

Duh!  You figured that out all on your own? 
As for your contention, "most", prove it........ for each claim.........  I won't hold my breath........


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do Atheists have to prove god does not exist? Does not proving a god does not exist, prove  a god exists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some Atheists seem to think they have to prove God doesn't exist but you're missing the crux of the proof problem and any form of "logic" will not prove or disprove.
Click to expand...

What _some_ Atheists think is probably irrelevant. There is NO proof problem as you would frame it. While I can't prove ghosts do not exist, it is acceptable to say they do not, that there is no proof of their existence., that the only reason we speak of ghosts is because many people insist on believing they exist, contrary to any credible evidence.


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do Atheists have to prove god does not exist? Does not proving a god does not exist, prove  a god exists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some Atheists seem to think they have to prove God doesn't exist but you're missing the crux of the proof problem and any form of "logic" will not prove or disprove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What _some_ Atheists think is probably irrelevant. There is NO proof problem as you would frame it. While I can't prove ghosts do not exist, it is acceptable to say they do not, that there is no proof of their existence., that the only reason we speak of ghosts is because many people insist on believing they exist, contrary to any credible evidence.
Click to expand...

You still using logical fallacy,  It's the realm of metaphysical which can not be proven or dis-proven using either logic or the physical sciences.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't understand why people who god on their side cannot show me proof of god's existence. I guess, god is a puzzle maker. Yet, if he is, why didn't he tell...oh never mind
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do Atheists have to prove god does not exist? Does not proving a god does not exist, prove  a god exists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some Atheists seem to think they have to prove God doesn't exist but you're missing the crux of the proof problem and any form of "logic" will not prove or disprove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What _some_ Atheists think is probably irrelevant. There is NO proof problem as you would frame it. While I can't prove ghosts do not exist, it is acceptable to say they do not, that there is no proof of their existence., that the only reason we speak of ghosts is because many people insist on believing they exist, contrary to any credible evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You still using logical fallacy,  It's the realm of metaphysical which can not be proven or dis-proven using either logic or the physical sciences.
Click to expand...

can anything that is metaphysical/supernatural be proven to exist? 

When somebody claims something supernatural exists in the physical world, they need to prove it.


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason atheists can't prove God doesn't exist.  Guess it's just goes to show life's sometimes a bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> Do Atheists have to prove god does not exist? Does not proving a god does not exist, prove  a god exists?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some Atheists seem to think they have to prove God doesn't exist but you're missing the crux of the proof problem and any form of "logic" will not prove or disprove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What _some_ Atheists think is probably irrelevant. There is NO proof problem as you would frame it. While I can't prove ghosts do not exist, it is acceptable to say they do not, that there is no proof of their existence., that the only reason we speak of ghosts is because many people insist on believing they exist, contrary to any credible evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You still using logical fallacy,  It's the realm of metaphysical which can not be proven or dis-proven using either logic or the physical sciences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can anything that is metaphysical/supernatural be proven to exist?
> 
> When somebody claims something supernatural exists in the physical world, they need to prove it.
Click to expand...

Why?  To satisfy you?  Not to be nasty but look at it pragmatically, who the fuck are you?  In the same breath who the fuck am I?  No one needs prove anything in the realm of the metaphysical, you either believe or you don't, couldn't be more simple.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do Atheists have to prove god does not exist? Does not proving a god does not exist, prove  a god exists?
> 
> 
> 
> Some Atheists seem to think they have to prove God doesn't exist but you're missing the crux of the proof problem and any form of "logic" will not prove or disprove.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What _some_ Atheists think is probably irrelevant. There is NO proof problem as you would frame it. While I can't prove ghosts do not exist, it is acceptable to say they do not, that there is no proof of their existence., that the only reason we speak of ghosts is because many people insist on believing they exist, contrary to any credible evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You still using logical fallacy,  It's the realm of metaphysical which can not be proven or dis-proven using either logic or the physical sciences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can anything that is metaphysical/supernatural be proven to exist?
> 
> When somebody claims something supernatural exists in the physical world, they need to prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why?  To satisfy you?  Not to be nasty but look at it pragmatically, who the fuck are you?  In the same breath who the fuck am I?  No one needs prove anything in the realm of the metaphysical, you either believe or you don't, couldn't be more simple.
Click to expand...

Of course what I am speaking to is claims that the metaphysical/supernatural exists in the physical/real world.

again (_for the reading and comprehending challenged_): When somebody claims something supernatural exists in the physical world, they need to prove it.

I don't really concern myself with what people believe in that is make-believe. I only care when their make-believe worlds invade my reality


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some Atheists seem to think they have to prove God doesn't exist but you're missing the crux of the proof problem and any form of "logic" will not prove or disprove.
> 
> 
> 
> What _some_ Atheists think is probably irrelevant. There is NO proof problem as you would frame it. While I can't prove ghosts do not exist, it is acceptable to say they do not, that there is no proof of their existence., that the only reason we speak of ghosts is because many people insist on believing they exist, contrary to any credible evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You still using logical fallacy,  It's the realm of metaphysical which can not be proven or dis-proven using either logic or the physical sciences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> can anything that is metaphysical/supernatural be proven to exist?
> 
> When somebody claims something supernatural exists in the physical world, they need to prove it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why?  To satisfy you?  Not to be nasty but look at it pragmatically, who the fuck are you?  In the same breath who the fuck am I?  No one needs prove anything in the realm of the metaphysical, you either believe or you don't, couldn't be more simple.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course what I am speaking to is claims that the metaphysical/supernatural exists in the physical/real world.
> 
> again (_for the reading and comprehending challenged_): When somebody claims something supernatural exists in the physical world, they need to prove it.
> 
> I don't really concern myself with what people believe in that is make-believe. I only care when their make-believe worlds invade my reality
Click to expand...

And your reality is the only one there is....... uuuuummmmmm.  How exactly does someone's "make believe world" (an obvious derogatory dismissal) invade your reality?


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Mr. Ringel05

In this dimension we exist in -- the dimension we perceive, there is but one _reality._ Perception is not reality: not mine, not yours, not anyones. No one owns _reality_, it just exists. The rest is just delusion.


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> There is but one _reality._ Perception is not reality: not mine, not yours, not anyones. No one owns _reality_, it just exists.


The Op is a fabrication of reality.  It is fiction.  It is not the reality of the world we live in today.

So what is the Op's real purpose............What is the Op trying to prove, by writing down the exact points he is trying to make.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> And your reality is the only one there is....... uuuuummmmmm.  How exactly does someone's "make believe world" (an obvious derogatory dismissal) invade your reality?


When somebody tries to restrain my liberty, based on something they perceive to be real, that obviously is not. No god speaks to anyone. Speaking is a form of communication that is observable and it involves sounds, not mental images from another dimension. People have voices in their heads, but those voices are not speaking. Speaking infers there is a speaker who is tangible.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> The Op is a fabrication of reality.  It is fiction.  It is not the reality of the world we live in today.
> 
> So what is the Op's real purpose............What is the Op trying to prove, by writing down the exact points he is trying to make.


Another graduate of the DeeFury School of mis-Communication? Mistaking opinion for something it is not, is most probably covered as a preexisting psychological condition, under most Obamacare coverage.


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And your reality is the only one there is....... uuuuummmmmm.  How exactly does someone's "make believe world" (an obvious derogatory dismissal) invade your reality?
> 
> 
> 
> When somebody tries to restrain my liberty, based on something they perceive to be real, that obviously is not. No god speaks to anyone. Speaking is a form of communication that is observable and it involves sounds, not mental images from another dimension. People have voices in their heads, but those voices are not speaking. Speaking infers there is a speaker who is tangible.
Click to expand...

How are you restrained............did anyone here stop you from speaking your mind on the subject.............please continue.


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Op is a fabrication of reality.  It is fiction.  It is not the reality of the world we live in today.
> 
> So what is the Op's real purpose............What is the Op trying to prove, by writing down the exact points he is trying to make.
> 
> 
> 
> Another graduate of the DeeFury School of mis-Communication? Mistaking opinion for something it is not, is most probably covered as a preexisting psychological condition, under most Obamacare coverage.
Click to expand...

You didn't answer the question..........what exact point are you trying to make here instead of beating around the bush.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> How are you restrained............did anyone here stop you from speaking your mind on the subject.............please continue.


What in the world are you speaking about?


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you restrained............did anyone here stop you from speaking your mind on the subject.............please continue.
> 
> 
> 
> What in the world are you speaking about?
Click to expand...

That is my exact question to you in post 28


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Op is a fabrication of reality.  It is fiction.  It is not the reality of the world we live in today.
> 
> So what is the Op's real purpose............What is the Op trying to prove, by writing down the exact points he is trying to make.
> 
> 
> 
> Another graduate of the DeeFury School of mis-Communication? Mistaking opinion for something it is not, is most probably covered as a preexisting psychological condition, under most Obamacare coverage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't answer the question..........what exact point are you trying to make here instead of beating around the bush.
Click to expand...

*"Without Islam" or*
*Reductio ad absurdum, or "I want":*
I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.​


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Op is a fabrication of reality.  It is fiction.  It is not the reality of the world we live in today.
> 
> So what is the Op's real purpose............What is the Op trying to prove, by writing down the exact points he is trying to make.
> 
> 
> 
> Another graduate of the DeeFury School of mis-Communication? Mistaking opinion for something it is not, is most probably covered as a preexisting psychological condition, under most Obamacare coverage.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You didn't answer the question..........what exact point are you trying to make here instead of beating around the bush.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *"Without Islam" or*
> *Reductio ad absurdum, or "I want":*
> I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.​
Click to expand...

So you want what is utterly absurd in reality...............so the point..............is..................


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you restrained............did anyone here stop you from speaking your mind on the subject.............please continue.
> 
> 
> 
> What in the world are you speaking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is my exact question to you in post 28
Click to expand...

In the back and forth between me and another member, I did not assert anyone here at usmb tried to retrain me, or that anyone here tried to stop me from speaking my mind on any subject. So I ask you again "What in the world are you speaking about?"


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> So you want what is utterly absurd in reality...............so the point..............is..................


Your inability to recognize and process parody in an op-ed, even when it is pointed out to you, is astounding.

Hamburger helper for the brain dead: Without Islam


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And your reality is the only one there is....... uuuuummmmmm.  How exactly does someone's "make believe world" (an obvious derogatory dismissal) invade your reality?
> 
> 
> 
> When somebody tries to restrain my liberty, based on something they perceive to be real, that obviously is not. No god speaks to anyone. Speaking is a form of communication that is observable and it involves sounds, not mental images from another dimension. People have voices in their heads, but those voices are not speaking. Speaking infers there is a speaker who is tangible.
Click to expand...

Annnnnd who is trying to restrain your liberty?  
Why do you care if someone "talks to God" or "talks to ghosts" as long as they're not physically dangerous?


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you restrained............did anyone here stop you from speaking your mind on the subject.............please continue.
> 
> 
> 
> What in the world are you speaking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is my exact question to you in post 28
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the back and forth between me and another member, I did not assert anyone here at usmb tried to retrain me, or that anyone here tried to stop me from speaking my mind on any subject. So I ask you again "What in the world are you speaking about?"
Click to expand...

He didn't specify the USMB.......  Interesting you became instantly defensive.......


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want what is utterly absurd in reality...............so the point..............is..................
> 
> 
> 
> Your inability to recognize and process parody in an op-ed, even when it is pointed out to you, is astounding.
> 
> Hamburger helper for the brain dead: Without Islam
Click to expand...

The World isn't without Islam now is it.....................

So in a Nutshell, you don't like any religion.............at all.......is that the cut to the chase you are pushing..............


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Annnnnd who is trying to restrain your liberty?
> Why do you care if someone "talks to God" or "talks to ghosts" as long as they're not physically dangerous?


Most any child of Abraham (or any other religious leader/prophet) who claims, unless I conform to the dictates of their religious faith, I should be taxed, fines, beaten, stripped of liberties, you name it. I already wrote that I did not care if "talks to God" or "talks to ghosts" as long as they're not restrain me in any way, under the orders and name of their god-given dictates or laws.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How are you restrained............did anyone here stop you from speaking your mind on the subject.............please continue.
> 
> 
> 
> What in the world are you speaking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is my exact question to you in post 28
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the back and forth between me and another member, I did not assert anyone here at usmb tried to retrain me, or that anyone here tried to stop me from speaking my mind on any subject. So I ask you again "What in the world are you speaking about?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He didn't specify the USMB.......  Interesting you became instantly defensive.......
Click to expand...

Defensive? Yet one more person with the projection style of argument?


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want what is utterly absurd in reality...............so the point..............is..................
> 
> 
> 
> Your inability to recognize and process parody in an op-ed, even when it is pointed out to you, is astounding.
> 
> Hamburger helper for the brain dead: Without Islam
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The World isn't without Islam now is it.....................
> 
> So in a Nutshell, you don't like any religion.............at all.......is that the cut to the chase you are pushing..............
Click to expand...

I have no problem with religion, when it is practiced by others in a way that does not infringe on my rights and liberties. Many people believe in many things and practice rituals and such that have little to no bearing on my life. I have very little to say to or about them


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want what is utterly absurd in reality...............so the point..............is..................
> 
> 
> 
> Your inability to recognize and process parody in an op-ed, even when it is pointed out to you, is astounding.
> 
> Hamburger helper for the brain dead: Without Islam
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The World isn't without Islam now is it.....................
> 
> So in a Nutshell, you don't like any religion.............at all.......is that the cut to the chase you are pushing..............
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have no problem with religion, when it is practiced by others in a way that does not infringe on my rights and liberties. Many people believe in many things and practice rituals and such that have little to no bearing on my life. I have very little to say to or about them
Click to expand...

Are you of any religious faith.............what makes you tick.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> The World isn't without Islam now is it.....................


Are you truly this clueless? Maybe I have not been clear enough, or maybe I give people like you too much credit in assuming they can follow along?


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Annnnnd who is trying to restrain your liberty?
> Why do you care if someone "talks to God" or "talks to ghosts" as long as they're not physically dangerous?
> 
> 
> 
> Most any child of Abraham (or any other religious leader/prophet) who claims, unless I conform to the dictates of their religious faith, I should be taxed, fines, beaten, stripped of liberties, you name it. I already wrote that I did not care if "talks to God" or "talks to ghosts" as long as they're not restrain me in any way, under the orders and name of their god-given dictates or laws.
Click to expand...

I've only found some who claim to be children of Abraham that espouse what you're claiming and most aren't Christians so your generalized claim is spurious at best.  Again who, in this country is actively restraining your liberty and how?


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The World isn't without Islam now is it.....................
> 
> 
> 
> Are you truly this clueless? Maybe I have not been clear enough, or maybe I give people like you too much credit in assuming they can follow along?
Click to expand...

Your other thread is that you want a world without Islam............that would be a hoot............could have stopped millions of deaths over history...............could stop the insanity we live in................

but it is not reality...............Do you chose to live in the real world or a fantasy world..............I scanned the other thread............It is not reality but a perception of an alternate reality................if that makes you happy then enjoy..........I chose to live in the real world.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> Are you of any religious faith.............what makes you tick.


I am told it's my heart. A muscle. I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure what energy, what life source keeps it going, before it finally exhausts itself. I do believe it has nothing to do with any of the old nonsense to be found in religious books, written by men who lived in ages, where and when they truly believed the Sun revolved around the Earth 

Why would I need faith? Should I feel a need to be forgiven? For what? An original sin? Should I believe I am of a 'chosen' people because of my mother's blood line? Should I feel the need to insist I am a child of Abraham and as such -- I could go on and on. But to what purpose? Why should I need a religious faith? Why?


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> I've only found some who claim to be children of Abraham that espouse what you're claiming and most aren't Christians so your generalized claim is spurious at best.  Again who, in this country is actively restraining your liberty and how?


I'm sorry, did I claim somebody in this country is actively restraining my liberty?


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you of any religious faith.............what makes you tick.
> 
> 
> 
> I am told it's my heart. A muscle. I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure what energy, what life source keeps it going, before it finally exhausts itself. I do believe it has nothing to do with any of the old nonsense to be found in religious books, written by men who lived in ages, where and when they truly believed the Sun revolved around the Earth
> 
> Why would I need faith? Should I feel a need to be forgiven? For what? An original sin? Should I believe I am of a 'chosen' people because of my mother's blood line? Should I feel the need to insist I am a child of Abraham and as such -- I could go on and on. But to what purpose? Why should I need a religious faith? Why?
Click to expand...

Why do you feel you need someone to tell you that?  Make up your own mind and move on.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> Your other thread is that you want a world without Islam...


That other thread was not started by Me.


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you of any religious faith.............what makes you tick.
> 
> 
> 
> I am told it's my heart. A muscle. I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure what energy, what life source keeps it going, before it finally exhausts itself. I do believe it has nothing to do with any of the old nonsense to be found in religious books, written by men who lived in ages, where and when they truly believed the Sun revolved around the Earth
> 
> Why would I need faith? Should I feel a need to be forgiven? For what? An original sin? Should I believe I am of a 'chosen' people because of my mother's blood line? Should I feel the need to insist I am a child of Abraham and as such -- I could go on and on. But to what purpose? Why should I need a religious faith? Why?
Click to expand...

I'll sum that up for you quick...........You are an atheist and your thread is deceptive way to condemn all religion.

Hell of a lot quicker than all the mumbo jumbo........


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've only found some who claim to be children of Abraham that espouse what you're claiming and most aren't Christians so your generalized claim is spurious at best.  Again who, in this country is actively restraining your liberty and how?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, did I claim somebody in this country is actively restraining my liberty?
Click to expand...

You're claiming the children of Abraham (Christians, Muslims and Jews) are trying to restrain your liberty, you live in this country, anyone outside of this country cannot restrain your liberty here and now so it was an obvious conclusion.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Why do you feel you need someone to tell you that?  Make up your own mind and move on.


The question I answered was regarding, what religious faith was I (if any), what makes me tick. So I ask, what in the world are YOU talking about?


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you feel you need someone to tell you that?  Make up your own mind and move on.
> 
> 
> 
> The question I answered was regarding, what religious faith was I (if any), what makes me tick. So I ask, what in the world are YOU talking about?
Click to expand...

Short term memory issues or trying to play mind twister?  I'm simply responding to specifically what you have posted.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> I'll sum that up for you quick...........You are an atheist and your thread is deceptive way to condemn all religion.
> 
> Hell of a lot quicker than all the mumbo jumbo........


You can attempt to label me an Atheist. I am unsure why, but I hate to disappoint you. Most non believers are not Atheists. Nothing deceitful there. Having no need or desire for a supernatural, higher power -- is not the same thing as insisting on Atheism as the alternative to religious faith. You appear to be confused more than deceitful. The only deceit I can see is the one where you deceive yourself into believing that non believers are somehow a threat to you, like Atheists evidently are


----------



## eagle1462010

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you feel you need someone to tell you that?  Make up your own mind and move on.
> 
> 
> 
> The question I answered was regarding, what religious faith was I (if any), what makes me tick. So I ask, what in the world are YOU talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Short term memory issues or trying to play mind twister?  I'm simply responding to specifically what you have posted.
Click to expand...

I believe he is playing the twister.........


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> mumbo jumbo........


this is a term usually used to describe religious tenets and dogma


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll sum that up for you quick...........You are an atheist and your thread is deceptive way to condemn all religion.
> 
> Hell of a lot quicker than all the mumbo jumbo........
> 
> 
> 
> You can attempt to label me an Atheist. I am unsure why, but I hate to disappoint you. Most non believers are not Atheists. Nothing deceitful there. Having no need or desire for a supernatural, higher power -- is not the same thing as insisting on Atheism as the alternative to religious faith. You appear to be confused more than deceitful. The only deceit I can see is the one where you deceive yourself into believing that non believers are somehow a threat to you, like Atheists evidently are
Click to expand...

Who the hell is threatening you.................I'm just figuring out what you really are and nothing else..............You ditch all religion by your posts then take offense when I say.........Oh you are an Atheist...........


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll sum that up for you quick...........You are an atheist and your thread is deceptive way to condemn all religion.
> 
> Hell of a lot quicker than all the mumbo jumbo........
> 
> 
> 
> You can attempt to label me an Atheist. I am unsure why, but I hate to disappoint you. Most non believers are not Atheists. Nothing deceitful there. Having no need or desire for a supernatural, higher power -- is not the same thing as insisting on Atheism as the alternative to religious faith. You appear to be confused more than deceitful. The only deceit I can see is the one where you deceive yourself into believing that non believers are somehow a threat to you, like Atheists evidently are
Click to expand...

*Atheism* is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define*atheism* as "a belief that there is no God."


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you feel you need someone to tell you that?  Make up your own mind and move on.
> 
> 
> 
> The question I answered was regarding, what religious faith was I (if any), what makes me tick. So I ask, what in the world are YOU talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Short term memory issues or trying to play mind twister?  I'm simply responding to specifically what you have posted.
Click to expand...

The question was

"Are you of any religious faith.............what makes you tick."

MARTIN EDEN MERCURY SAID: I am told it's my heart. A muscle. I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure what energy, what life source keeps it going, before it finally exhausts itself. I do believe it has nothing to do with any of the old nonsense to be found in religious books, written by men who lived in ages, where and when they truly believed the Sun revolved around the Earth

Why would I need faith? Should I feel a need to be forgiven? For what? An original sin? Should I believe I am of a 'chosen' people because of my mother's blood line? Should I feel the need to insist I am a child of Abraham and as such -- I could go on and on. But to what purpose? Why should I need a religious faith? Why?​You injected: "_Why do you feel you need someone to tell you that? Make up your own mind and move on._"

The question I answered was regarding, what religious faith was I (if any), what makes me tick. So I ask, what in the world are YOU talking about?


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you feel you need someone to tell you that?  Make up your own mind and move on.
> 
> 
> 
> The question I answered was regarding, what religious faith was I (if any), what makes me tick. So I ask, what in the world are YOU talking about?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Short term memory issues or trying to play mind twister?  I'm simply responding to specifically what you have posted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The question was
> 
> "Are you of any religious faith.............what makes you tick."
> 
> MARTIN EDEN MERCURY SAID: I am told it's my heart. A muscle. I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure what energy, what life source keeps it going, before it finally exhausts itself. I do believe it has nothing to do with any of the old nonsense to be found in religious books, written by men who lived in ages, where and when they truly believed the Sun revolved around the Earth
> 
> Why would I need faith? Should I feel a need to be forgiven? For what? An original sin? Should I believe I am of a 'chosen' people because of my mother's blood line? Should I feel the need to insist I am a child of Abraham and as such -- I could go on and on. But to what purpose? Why should I need a religious faith? Why?​You injected: "_Why do you feel you need someone to tell you that? Make up your own mind and move on._"
> 
> The question I answered was regarding, what religious faith was I (if any), what makes me tick. So I ask, what in the world are YOU talking about?
Click to expand...




> Why would I need faith? Should I feel a need to be forgiven? For what? An original sin? Should I believe I am of a 'chosen' people because of my mother's blood line? Should I feel the need to insist I am a child of Abraham and as such -- I could go on and on. But to what purpose? Why should I need a religious faith? Why?



Pretty obvious what my response was addressing, all you had to do was reread what you posted.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll sum that up for you quick...........You are an atheist and your thread is deceptive way to condemn all religion.
> 
> Hell of a lot quicker than all the mumbo jumbo........
> 
> 
> 
> You can attempt to label me an Atheist. I am unsure why, but I hate to disappoint you. Most non believers are not Atheists. Nothing deceitful there. Having no need or desire for a supernatural, higher power -- is not the same thing as insisting on Atheism as the alternative to religious faith. You appear to be confused more than deceitful. The only deceit I can see is the one where you deceive yourself into believing that non believers are somehow a threat to you, like Atheists evidently are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Atheism* is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define*atheism* as "a belief that there is no God."
Click to expand...

Are these definitions from the course study books at the DeeFury Graduate School of Misunderstandings?


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mumbo jumbo........
> 
> 
> 
> this is a term usually used to describe religious tenets and dogma
Click to expand...

It's used to describe many things by many different people, you really should look up the full definition.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Pretty obvious what my response was addressing, all you had to do was reread what you posted.


Really? When you injected yourself into a back and forth, it is up to you to be more clear and to the point. Again, what in the world were you talking about?


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll sum that up for you quick...........You are an atheist and your thread is deceptive way to condemn all religion.
> 
> Hell of a lot quicker than all the mumbo jumbo........
> 
> 
> 
> You can attempt to label me an Atheist. I am unsure why, but I hate to disappoint you. Most non believers are not Atheists. Nothing deceitful there. Having no need or desire for a supernatural, higher power -- is not the same thing as insisting on Atheism as the alternative to religious faith. You appear to be confused more than deceitful. The only deceit I can see is the one where you deceive yourself into believing that non believers are somehow a threat to you, like Atheists evidently are
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Atheism* is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define*atheism* as "a belief that there is no God."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are these definitions from the course study books at the DeeFury Graduate School of Misunderstandings?
Click to expand...

Google definition when you google atheism..........atheist..............

What is the exact problem with that definition..................or are you offended by labels as you try to twist labels on others..........


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mumbo jumbo........
> 
> 
> 
> this is a term usually used to describe religious tenets and dogma
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's used to describe many things by many different people, you really should look up the full definition.
Click to expand...

Why would I need to do that? I can make up my own mind and move on.


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty obvious what my response was addressing, all you had to do was reread what you posted.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? When you injected yourself into a back and forth, it is up to you to be more clear and to the point. Again, what in the world were you talking about?
Click to expand...

Are you being purposefully obtuse or just simply obtuse?


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mumbo jumbo........
> 
> 
> 
> this is a term usually used to describe religious tenets and dogma
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's used to describe many things by many different people, you really should look up the full definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would I need to do that? I can make up my own mind and move on.
Click to expand...

Then why are you even bothering with this whole thread?


----------



## eagle1462010

Which Mod sock is he..................that's what I'm trying to figure out..............


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> Google definition when you google atheism..........atheist..............
> 
> What is the exact problem with that definition..................or are you offended by labels as you try to twist labels on others..........


The Webster definition is amusing as it contains the archaic, which is always helpful in having a fuller understanding of things.

*           Definition of atheism *
_archaic_ :  ungodliness, wickedness

_2_ _a_ :  a disbelief in the existence of deity
_b_ :  the doctrine that there is no deity​


a disbelief is not the same as non belief. I do not live out my life attempting to disprove the existence of the supernatural. I usually do not even consider it, until others inject it into conversation or argument. Using parody and mockery to highlight the inane beliefs of my fellow citizens can be mistaken for an agenda, or ideology, or philosophical stance, but the reality is I just don't care. If people kept their beliefs to themselves -- but I ask the impossible. The whole point of most beliefs appears to be to show others how good, righteous, or whatever one is. Why else discuss something so personal and private?


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mumbo jumbo........
> 
> 
> 
> this is a term usually used to describe religious tenets and dogma
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's used to describe many things by many different people, you really should look up the full definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would I need to do that? I can make up my own mind and move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are you even bothering with this whole thread?
Click to expand...

You must have missed the parody angle. It's okay. You seem to be determined to score points with yourself. 

Well Bravo!  Bravo!


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> Which Mod sock is he..................that's what I'm trying to figure out..............



Mod soc? Come again?


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> mumbo jumbo........
> 
> 
> 
> this is a term usually used to describe religious tenets and dogma
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's used to describe many things by many different people, you really should look up the full definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would I need to do that? I can make up my own mind and move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are you even bothering with this whole thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have missed the parody angle. It's okay. You seem to be determined to score points with yourself.
> 
> Well Bravo!  Bravo!
Click to expand...

Dismissive deflection, got it.  Any more rationalizations and justifications you'd like to revel in?


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Google definition when you google atheism..........atheist..............
> 
> What is the exact problem with that definition..................or are you offended by labels as you try to twist labels on others..........
> 
> 
> 
> The Webster definition is amusing as it contains the archaic, which is always helpful in having a fuller understanding of things.
> 
> *           Definition of atheism *
> _archaic_ :  ungodliness, wickedness
> 
> _2_ _a_ :  a disbelief in the existence of deity
> _b_ :  the doctrine that there is no deity​
> 
> 
> a disbelief is not the same as non belief. I do not live out my life attempting to disprove the existence of the supernatural. I usually do not even consider it, until others inject it into conversation or argument. Using parody and mockery to highlight the inane beliefs of my fellow citizens can be mistaken for an agenda, or ideology, or philosophical stance, but the reality is I just don't care. If people kept their beliefs to themselves -- but I ask the impossible. The whole point of most beliefs appears to be to show others how good, righteous, or whatever one is. Why else discuss something so personal and private?
Click to expand...

So you start a thread on the very thing and complain about it when challenged.....

LOL


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Then why are you even bothering with this whole thread?


An interesting question you should probably be asking yourself.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

eagle1462010 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Google definition when you google atheism..........atheist..............
> 
> What is the exact problem with that definition..................or are you offended by labels as you try to twist labels on others..........
> 
> 
> 
> The Webster definition is amusing as it contains the archaic, which is always helpful in having a fuller understanding of things.
> 
> *           Definition of atheism *
> _archaic_ :  ungodliness, wickedness
> 
> _2_ _a_ :  a disbelief in the existence of deity
> _b_ :  the doctrine that there is no deity​
> 
> 
> a disbelief is not the same as non belief. I do not live out my life attempting to disprove the existence of the supernatural. I usually do not even consider it, until others inject it into conversation or argument. Using parody and mockery to highlight the inane beliefs of my fellow citizens can be mistaken for an agenda, or ideology, or philosophical stance, but the reality is I just don't care. If people kept their beliefs to themselves -- but I ask the impossible. The whole point of most beliefs appears to be to show others how good, righteous, or whatever one is. Why else discuss something so personal and private?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you start a thread on the very thing and complain about it when challenged.....
> 
> LOL
Click to expand...

Is that how you see it?


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> this is a term usually used to describe religious tenets and dogma
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's used to describe many things by many different people, you really should look up the full definition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why would I need to do that? I can make up my own mind and move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are you even bothering with this whole thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have missed the parody angle. It's okay. You seem to be determined to score points with yourself.
> 
> Well Bravo!  Bravo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dismissive deflection, got it.  Any more rationalizations and justifications you'd like to revel in?
Click to expand...

One. Why do your posts suck?


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Google definition when you google atheism..........atheist..............
> 
> What is the exact problem with that definition..................or are you offended by labels as you try to twist labels on others..........
> 
> 
> 
> The Webster definition is amusing as it contains the archaic, which is always helpful in having a fuller understanding of things.
> 
> *           Definition of atheism *
> _archaic_ :  ungodliness, wickedness
> 
> _2_ _a_ :  a disbelief in the existence of deity
> _b_ :  the doctrine that there is no deity​
> 
> 
> a disbelief is not the same as non belief. I do not live out my life attempting to disprove the existence of the supernatural. I usually do not even consider it, until others inject it into conversation or argument. Using parody and mockery to highlight the inane beliefs of my fellow citizens can be mistaken for an agenda, or ideology, or philosophical stance, but the reality is I just don't care. If people kept their beliefs to themselves -- but I ask the impossible. The whole point of most beliefs appears to be to show others how good, righteous, or whatever one is. Why else discuss something so personal and private?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you start a thread on the very thing and complain about it when challenged.....
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that how you see it?
Click to expand...

Yep.


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's used to describe many things by many different people, you really should look up the full definition.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I need to do that? I can make up my own mind and move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are you even bothering with this whole thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have missed the parody angle. It's okay. You seem to be determined to score points with yourself.
> 
> Well Bravo!  Bravo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dismissive deflection, got it.  Any more rationalizations and justifications you'd like to revel in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One. Why do your posts suck?
Click to expand...

LOL

Losing the purpose of his debate and goes cheesy on us....

LOL


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are you even bothering with this whole thread?
> 
> 
> 
> An interesting question you should probably be asking yourself.
Click to expand...

I have which is why I'm asking you....... you haven't.  Keep deflecting, it suits you.


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's used to describe many things by many different people, you really should look up the full definition.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I need to do that? I can make up my own mind and move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are you even bothering with this whole thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have missed the parody angle. It's okay. You seem to be determined to score points with yourself.
> 
> Well Bravo!  Bravo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dismissive deflection, got it.  Any more rationalizations and justifications you'd like to revel in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One. *Why do your posts suck?*
Click to expand...

Because you keep getting trapped in your own logical fallacies and obviously don't like it.  Life's a bitch, deal with it.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> Because you keep getting trapped in your own logical fallacies and obviously don't like it.  Life's a bitch, deal with it.


You remind me of young adults when they first stumble upon a new word or phrase. Go for it


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's used to describe many things by many different people, you really should look up the full definition.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would I need to do that? I can make up my own mind and move on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Then why are you even bothering with this whole thread?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have missed the parody angle. It's okay. You seem to be determined to score points with yourself.
> 
> Well Bravo!  Bravo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dismissive deflection, got it.  Any more rationalizations and justifications you'd like to revel in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> One. Why do your posts suck?
Click to expand...

I'm feeling magnanimous so I'll cut you a break Sparky, I pointed out you logical fallacies then challenged (asked) you to explain/expound upon your claims which you refused to respond to. Now all of a sudden I'm the "bad guy".........  If you can't cognitively defend your positions you may want to think twice about espousing them as you'll get your ass handed to you every time.


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because you keep getting trapped in your own logical fallacies and obviously don't like it.  Life's a bitch, deal with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You remind me of young adults when they first stumble upon a new word or phrase. Go for it
Click to expand...

You don't remind me of an adult.


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because you keep getting trapped in your own logical fallacies and obviously don't like it.  Life's a bitch, deal with it.
> 
> 
> 
> You remind me of young adults when they first stumble upon a new word or phrase. Go for it
Click to expand...

You remind me of my kids always giving me What if scenarios..............LOL

They always got a kick out of it.


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Ringel05 said:


> I'm feeling magnanimous so I'll cut you a break Sparky, I pointed out you logical fallacies then challenged (asked) you to explain/expound upon your claims which you refused to respond to. Now all of a sudden I'm the "bad guy".........  If you can't cognitively defend your positions you may want to think twice about espousing them as you'll get your ass handed to you every time.


You're a bad guy now? Do you sit at home watching lots of Spaghetti Westerns? 

You have strayed so far from the OP it is amazing. But, I allowed you to hijack it for my own purposes. Thank you for playing

Mem


----------



## eagle1462010

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm feeling magnanimous so I'll cut you a break Sparky, I pointed out you logical fallacies then challenged (asked) you to explain/expound upon your claims which you refused to respond to. Now all of a sudden I'm the "bad guy".........  If you can't cognitively defend your positions you may want to think twice about espousing them as you'll get your ass handed to you every time.
> 
> 
> 
> You're a bad guy now? Do you sit at home watching lots of Spaghetti Westerns?
> 
> You have strayed so far from the OP it is amazing. But, I allowed you to hijack it for my own purposes. Thank you for playing
> 
> Mem
Click to expand...


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Ringel05 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm feeling magnanimous so I'll cut you a break Sparky, I pointed out you logical fallacies then challenged (asked) you to explain/expound upon your claims which you refused to respond to. Now all of a sudden I'm the "bad guy".........  If you can't cognitively defend your positions you may want to think twice about espousing them as you'll get your ass handed to you every time.
> 
> 
> 
> You're a bad guy now? Do you sit at home watching lots of Spaghetti Westerns?
> 
> You have strayed so far from the OP it is amazing. But, I allowed you to hijack it for my own purposes. Thank you for playing
> 
> Mem
Click to expand...

I strayed??!!!  Dayamn dud (yeah it's spelled correctly) I was responding to everyone of your posts and I strayed.........?  Do you always engage in pretzel logic?


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

Just to be clear from here on in, the OP is a parody of an OP by another. It is also something else. Where it went off course was with a member taking it into a realm of debating Atheism and faith, and voodoo, and the metaphysical, otherwise known as -- superstition. 



Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Reductio ad absurdum, or  I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born.
> 
> Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Islam. Without Islam, we'd have no Islamic radicals. Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no Scott Roeders. who is Scott Roeder? Without ignorance we all know who Scot Roeder is.
> 
> Without Hebrews, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no anti-Semites. Without Christianity we'd have no Christian Identity movement. Without Hebrews and Christianity, the Confederacy would have had no biblical argument for justifying the slavery of Africans. Without Christianity, many Americans ( and others worldwide), would not have had their lives unjustly taken away by terrorists using their own interpretations from readings of the Judeo-Christian Bible, to justify atrocity. Without Christians who claim a personal relationship to Jesus the Christ, there would be less death in the world. Without Hebrews, there'd be no trouble in Palestine, because without Hebrews, Palestine as we know it, would never have existed.
> 
> I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.


----------



## Ringel05

Martin Eden Mercury said:


> Just to be clear from here on in, the OP is a parody of an OP by another. It is also something else. Where it went off course was with a member taking it into a realm of debating Atheism and faith, and voodoo, and the metaphysical, otherwise known as -- superstition.
> 
> 
> 
> Martin Eden Mercury said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reductio ad absurdum, or  I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born.
> 
> Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Islam. Without Islam, we'd have no Islamic radicals. Without Abraham, the Hebrew, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no Scott Roeders. who is Scott Roeder? Without ignorance we all know who Scot Roeder is.
> 
> Without Hebrews, we'd have no Christianity. Without Christianity we'd have no anti-Semites. Without Christianity we'd have no Christian Identity movement. Without Hebrews and Christianity, the Confederacy would have had no biblical argument for justifying the slavery of Africans. Without Christianity, many Americans ( and others worldwide), would not have had their lives unjustly taken away by terrorists using their own interpretations from readings of the Judeo-Christian Bible, to justify atrocity. Without Christians who claim a personal relationship to Jesus the Christ, there would be less death in the world. Without Hebrews, there'd be no trouble in Palestine, because without Hebrews, Palestine as we know it, would never have existed.
> 
> I know this sounds a bit absurd, so please allow me to assure you: I want to live in a world without trouble. I want to live in a world where Abraham had never been born. But we all know that would be an absurdity. Such a world could never exist.
Click to expand...

You can talk yourself into anything, can't you.......


----------



## Martin Eden Mercury

inshallah


----------

