# Alleged phone scam in Haldimand-Norfolk and other ridings in the May elections.



## Ropey

> Alleged phone scam in Haldimand-Norfolk and other ridings in May election up in the Commons today





> Local MP Diane Finley quickly denied the allegations.
> 
> We have calls into both Finley and Speller.
> 
> The Conservatives deny they were behind automated calls that falsely advised voters that the location of their polling stations had changed.
> 
> Elections Canada and the police are believed to be investigating cases in up to 18 ridings.






It's going to be interesting to see how Harper deals with this one.


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## Jroc

8 or 9 cases?  Red meat for the libs. Of course they'll have to throw some American bashing in there.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XkcWN9DSKY]Stephen Harper Stole 2011 Election? 'Robocalls' Investigation of Fraud - YouTube[/ame]


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## Ropey

Jroc said:


> 8 or 9 cases?  Red meat for the libs. Of course they'll have to through some American bashing in there.
> 
> Stephen Harper Stole 2011 Election? 'Robocalls' Investigation of Fraud - YouTube



He's a quick one Jroc.  If this ends  now, then he's really slick.


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## Jroc

Ropey said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 8 or 9 cases?  Red meat for the libs. Of course they'll have to through some American bashing in there.
> 
> Stephen Harper Stole 2011 Election? 'Robocalls' Investigation of Fraud - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's a quick one Jroc.  If this ends  now, then he's really slick.
Click to expand...


Hopefully this will pass we need a strong Harper


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## tinydancer

*sigh* every time Bob comes out and makes an accusation ever notice how there are professionally made signs behind him?

Like hello we can't peg this off Bob?


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## tinydancer

Ropey said:


> Alleged phone scam in Haldimand-Norfolk and other ridings in May election up in the Commons today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Local MP Diane Finley quickly denied the allegations.
> 
> We have calls into both Finley and Speller.
> 
> The Conservatives deny they were behind automated calls that falsely advised voters that the location of their polling stations had changed.
> 
> Elections Canada and the police are believed to be investigating cases in up to 18 ridings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The conservatives that I knew in all of those areas would never dream in a lifetime of falsifying anything in their lives.
> 
> These people are so honest. Dear lord in heaven these people are so honest you could trust them with your children, with your mother and father. We are talking the most honest people on the planet who would never dream to lie once in their lives.
> 
> It's going to be interesting to see how Harper deals with this one.
Click to expand...


I know who she is.


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## cont123

Here are a couple of pics of British babe Shelly Conn. She plays the female lead on the new Fox show "Terra Nova."


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## Ropey

> Tories steady despite robocall accusations, poll shows








Harper cut it off at the head and challenged for proof.  



> While allegations surrounding robocalls have mesmerized media and triggered enraged accusations in the House of Commons, they have had little effect on Canadians' support for the Conservative party, according to a new poll.



Canadians say to get on with the work of Politics.



> The Conservatives' omnibus crime bill clears the House of Commons





> The Safe Streets and Communities Act  a hodgepodge of nine justice bills, most of which were defeated in previous Parliaments when the Conservatives were in minority status  easily passed thanks to the governments new majority in a vote of 157 to 127.



I like Harper's view.



> While few question parts of the bill that deal with support for victims and penalties for child sexual offences, the opposition has vehemently opposed parts that deal with mandatory minimum sentences for marijuana production and a harsher approach to young offenders, those seeking pardons and Canadians imprisoned abroad who are looking to serve their sentences in Canada.








Conservatives' omnibus crime bill clears Commons | News | National Post

The Immigration Act was seriously revised in the past few years as well.


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## Jroc

So how's the media on this Ropey? are they like they are down here? does every news story lead with this? or is it dying down now?


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## Ropey

Jroc said:


> So how's the media on this Ropey? are they like they are down here? does every news story lead with this? or is it dying down now?



It's tough when the people say they don't care about this. It shows the strength of the Conservative government so far.  Let's see what future polls say. 

The media leads but the polls nix it.   The people of Canada are extensively polled and the Canadians understand the media divide. We're rather politically astute as living next to the behemouth US has given Canadians a built in wariness.  

Canadian content and all that don't cha know eh? 

Confused? You May Be A Liberal



> Some years ago, in those politically heady days when Barack Obama seemed poised to secure the Democratic presidential nomination, the New Yorker ran a cartoon depicting a credulous-looking woman asking of a door-to-door pollster: &#8220;Is &#8216;oblivious&#8217; the same as &#8216;undecided?&#8217; &#8221; As it turns out, &#8220;oblivious&#8221; may actually mean agreeing with the Liberal party&#8217;s policy positions, at least if we take the findings of the CBC&#8217;s Vote Compass survey seriously. That tool, which surpassed a million completions after little more than a week on the CBC website, tells respondents which of the major political parties they&#8217;re most closely aligned to based on their answers to 30 policy-focused questions. It also appears to throw politically tepid users in with the party of Laurier and Trudeau.



Politically tepid.


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## tinydancer

Ropey said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> So how's the media on this Ropey? are they like they are down here? does every news story lead with this? or is it dying down now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's tough when the people say they don't care about this. It shows the strength of the Conservative government so far.  Let's see what future polls say.
> 
> The media leads but the polls nix it.   The people of Canada are extensively polled and the Canadians understand the media divide. We're rather politically astute as living next to the behemouth US has given Canadians a built in wariness.
> 
> Canadian content and all that don't cha know eh?
> 
> Confused? You May Be A Liberal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some years ago, in those politically heady days when Barack Obama seemed poised to secure the Democratic presidential nomination, the New Yorker ran a cartoon depicting a credulous-looking woman asking of a door-to-door pollster: Is oblivious the same as undecided?  As it turns out, oblivious may actually mean agreeing with the Liberal partys policy positions, at least if we take the findings of the CBCs Vote Compass survey seriously. That tool, which surpassed a million completions after little more than a week on the CBC website, tells respondents which of the major political parties theyre most closely aligned to based on their answers to 30 policy-focused questions. It also appears to throw politically tepid users in with the party of Laurier and Trudeau.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Politically tepid.
Click to expand...


I was listening to Rex Murphy's show on Sunday and a lot of callers were pissed off at how childish the Question Period was with all the name calling and shouting without any proof from Elections Canada to date. 

A Political Science professor was a guest and he was just appalled at the Liberals and the NDP going viral when nothing has been proven and the PM is dealing with major issues including the visit from Benjamin Netanyahu up on deck. 

It's really odd and convenient timing that this "issue" has arisen right before the NDP convention and Bob Rae is flexing to take over the Libs.

8 months now since the election. And only 31 complaints were received by Elections Canada immediately following the election last May.

Something doesn't pass the smell test.


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## Ropey

tinydancer said:


> Something doesn't pass the smell test.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWpz2OYf1QU]*[/ame]


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## william

In this case, we already know what happened. And it's just a matter of getting enough evidence to pin them down. These guilty guys may be telling everybody to go ahead and investigate, but I wonder why the remind me of the telemarketers' basic rule: "Catch us if you can. If not, then we go about business as usual." 

I did get several of these misleading robo-calls, too, and I remember reporting phone numbers at this consumer complaint site called CALLERCENTER. That site practically compiled all the complaints from a lot of people who got calls like that. Investigators might want to check them out.


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## tinydancer

william said:


> In this case, we already know what happened. And it's just a matter of getting enough evidence to pin them down. These guilty guys may be telling everybody to go ahead and investigate, but I wonder why the remind me of the telemarketers' basic rule: "Catch us if you can. If not, then we go about business as usual."
> 
> I did get several of these misleading robo-calls, too, and I remember reporting phone numbers at this consumer complaint site called CALLERCENTER. That site practically compiled all the complaints from a lot of people who got calls like that. Investigators might want to check them out.



First off you don't know what happened.If you want it to be true it'would be because you are either a lib, a greenie, or NDP.

I've heard about the complaints. The robocaller actually said that they were from the Conservative party before misleading the listener to a fabricated polling station.

So either some one hired the biggest imbecile on the planet to record that "hey we're Conservatives and we want to get caught breaking the Election Act" or someone is setting some one up for a fall. OR we have a rogue or several rogue elements out there.

Give me a break. 

Under 50 complaints after the election 8 months ago and all of a sudden this comes up before two leadership races?

How coincidental!! Elections Canada will get to the bottom of it.


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## SweetTreat80

How did I miss this thread? lol That number is now over 800 in over 200 ridings across Canada. That's over 2/3 of the political ridings in Canada that received fraudulent phone calls during last yrs Federal Election.


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## SweetTreat80

Might I add that Canadians have taken to the streets in protest since this scandal broke. I amongst them have gone to 2 protests in Toronto where the crowds are thousands. Here is an article from the Toronto Sun:

Protesters who took to Toronto&#8217;s streets Sunday backed a speaker&#8217;s call for the federal government&#8217;s downfall and another election.

Seeming at times like a spring break festival, the peaceful 2 1/2-hour rally &#8212; similar to others staged in 31 cities &#8212; ended around 5 p.m. at Queen and James Sts. after a march down Yonge St. from Dundas Square.

Toronto Police estimated that 1,900 people took part in the protest. Organizers pegged the number at 3,000.

There were several lusty renditions of O Canada, the traditional &#8220;Hey, hey, ho, ho&#8221; chant &#8212; which always ended with &#8220;Stephen Harper has to go&#8221; &#8212; plus repeated slogans.

Held to condemn the 2011 &#8220;robo-call&#8221; election scandal, organizer Jonathan Allan and several speakers addressed democracy and civil rights issues here and around the world.

&#8220;This is a grass-roots event, organized by ordinary people,&#8221; said the owner of a Toronto firm specializing in &#8220;socially responsible products.&#8221;

&#8220;The last election was fraudulent,&#8221; he said before leading the march.


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## Ropey

> Andrea Mandel-Campbell: The great robocalling scandal is a fraud








> The idea that this is some kind of precision, high-tech machine &#8212; which breathless journalists covering the robo-call scandal seem to assume &#8212; is absurd. I started out with about 3,000 identified voters and needed to identify about 15,000 if I had a chance of winning (in the end, I did not). Dissuading Liberals from voting with disingenuous phone calls would not have made a difference. More importantly, my campaign, which was well-funded and well-staffed &#8212; we were a so-called &#8220;target riding&#8221; &#8212; didn&#8217;t have resources to spare.



The great robocall scandal is a fraud | Canada | Full Comment | National Post

We Canadians will continue to watch this unfold. So far the response is for the Elections Canada Machine to get more control of the procedures.

That's it so far. There's a lot of talk which is good, but so far it is clear that the numbers do not add up. In other words, there was not enough misdirection to make an appreciable difference in the outcome.

From what we know so far. So we Canadians say, fix it.

Not fuck it.


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## SweetTreat80

Ropey that article was dated March 15 which was 2 weeks before Mr. Mayrand went before the House of Commons with his findings. As for the comment that, "we don't know if it was enough to effect the outcome of the election", I've heard that many times and quite frankly it is not the point. 

It's unconstitutional, violates the rights of Canadians to suppress their vote and it's against Elections Canada law. The fact that some here and South of the border are simply laughing at it is sad. I'm not sure if you are aware of the laws here but if Harper is found to have direct knowledge of these calls the Conservative Party can be dismantled, their assets liquidated, fines can be handed out and jail time of up to 5 years as well. It's most definitely  a serious issue.

When I see Canadians sitting back and shrugging it off as "well that's politics" it's sad. My Husband who is American btw, has attended 2 protests in Toronto with me and is disgusted at the way the Prime Minister has handled all of this. Again since I can't post links I don't want to copy/paste everything lol but originally Harper said he had no knowledge of any wrong doing and that none of his party would be involved in such dirty tricks. Later that week he pegged a low level Conservative staffer as the person that made these fraudulent calls and fired him. When the staffer, Michael Sona said he has nothing to do with it Harper turned around and said well it's just a smear campaign. 

Everyday that new information comes out that implicates the Conservative party the Prime Ministers story changes. You probably aren't too familiar with Canadian Politics but did you know that our current Prime Minister was accused of breaking Elections Canada's laws in the 2006 Federal Campaign? He denied this for 5 years and finally pleaded GUILTY in November 2011 of the charges they denied for 5 years.

They pleaded guilty to 2 counts of violating the Elections Canada Act and were fined $52,000. In a plea bargain, the Conservative Party of Canada pleaded not guilty to more serious charges of wilfully contravening the act and all charges were dropped against four top party officials who implemented the so-called in-and-out scheme to finance radio and television advertising during the 2006 campaign.

Considering he broke the law and lied for 5 years before there is no reason to doubt he didn't orchestrate a scheme to suppress the vote of the Canadian people in the 2011 Federal Election.


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## Ropey

Still, we Canadians wait for more proof.  

So far, the numbers are not improving and there's no proof of tie to the Conservative party as far as operations are concerned.  Let that be shown and then you will see different Canadians indeed.

So far it's a numbers thing and the numbers do not add up to anything of use in an attempt to end the Canadian Conservative government. 

Charging violators?  Damned right.


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## SweetTreat80

Ropey while they are allegations in the big scheme of things, meaning the Government has been taken to court, YET, Elections Canada investigation has revealed that the Fraudulent phone calls were made by Rack 9 and RMG which are 2 telemarketing firms hired exclusively by the Conservative Government during the 2011 election campaign.  As well, Mr.Harper holds his Majority Government by only 12 seats which is just 5184 votes and over 200 ridings have been found to be affected by these calls so it's conceivable that the calls themselves could have affected the outcome of a Minority vs Majority that he has. And as I've said, at the end of the day in the big scheme of things it doesn't matter because it was a constitutional violation.


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## Ropey

SweetTreat80 said:


> Ropey while they are allegations in the big scheme of things, meaning the Government has been taken to court, YET, Elections Canada investigation has revealed that the Fraudulent phone calls were made by Rack 9 and RMG which are 2 telemarketing firms hired exclusively by the Conservative Government during the 2011 election campaign.  As well, Mr.Harper holds his Majority Government by only 12 seats which is just 5184 votes and over 200 ridings have been found to be affected by these calls so it's conceivable that the calls themselves could have affected the outcome of a Minority vs Majority that he has. And as I've said, at the end of the day in the big scheme of things it doesn't matter because it was a constitutional violation.



It's not a constitutional violation. It's simply proof of misdirection. There is no proof tying the misdirection to the Conservative party of Canada other than the ones (on the phone)  saying they were part of the Conservative Party of Canada and that they tied themselves to subsidiaries used by the Conservative Party of Canada.

Politics - CBC News

Canadians are not concerned because we saw the tie and are saying fix it. Don't break the government over it.  Fix it. Secondary subsidiary firms will be under a constrained and structural oversight.

edit:

Fix it.

Don't fuck it.

A distinctly Canadian approach.


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## tinydancer

I had a blast watching Pat Martin issue a grovelling apology .

He's in a world of trouble and it looks good on the blow hard.

* And now a word from Pat Martin
by Aaron Wherry on Monday, April 16, 2012 11:51am - 0 Comments

Having previously clarified his remarks about Campaign Research and apologized for his statements about Responsive Marketing Group, Pat Martin convened reporters this morning to say sorry to RackNine.

    I apologize for any damage my statements may have caused to Mr. Meier personally or to RackNine, and I have been specifically authorized by the NDP Party to apologize on behalf of the NDP Party for any similar damage the publications on the NDP website may have caused.*

I love it. 

And now a word from Pat Martin - Beyond The Commons, Capital Read - Macleans.ca


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