# The world leaping ahead of us, the U.S. still has no fast trains.



## the other mike

China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed. 

But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.


Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


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## BlackFlag

Americans don’t think ahead or care beyond short-term satisfaction


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## HereWeGoAgain

Why would I take the train when I can jump on a plane?


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## EvilCat Breath

So?????


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## theHawk

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.



That’s because we have superior freeways and Americans like being independent and free to drive their own cars.  Not to mention trains never take you to and from you beginning and end destination, you always need a second mode of transportation just to get to the train.

Europe has a so called good high speed train system, yet it still sucks and is insanely expensive.  Personally I’ve used the train a few times and in some specific cases is good to use, but usually it’s far faster and cheaper to just drive or fly to your destination.


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## the other mike

theHawk said:


> That’s because we have superior freeways and Americans like being independent and free to drive their own cars.  Not to mention trains never take you to and from you beginning and end destination, you always need a second mode of transportation just to get to the train.
> 
> Europe has a so called good high speed train system, yet it still sucks and is insanely expensive.  Personally I’ve used the train a few times and in some specific cases is good to use, but usually it’s far faster and cheaper to just drive or fly to your destination.


The video explains how you're wrong
but don't watch it. Just keep being wrong.


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## HereWeGoAgain

theHawk said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because we have superior freeways and Americans like being independent and free to drive their own cars.  Not to mention trains never take you to and from you beginning and end destination, you always need a second mode of transportation just to get to the train.
> 
> Europe has a so called good high speed train system, yet it still sucks and is insanely expensive.  Personally I’ve used the train a few times and in some specific cases is good to use, but usually it’s far faster and cheaper to just drive or fly to your destination.
Click to expand...


  Not to mention stops along the way to pick up passengers. 
At least with a plane nonstops are available.


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## Weatherman2020

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


Americans love liberty. 
Not government telling us when and when not we can travel.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Angelo said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because we have superior freeways and Americans like being independent and free to drive their own cars.  Not to mention trains never take you to and from you beginning and end destination, you always need a second mode of transportation just to get to the train.
> 
> Europe has a so called good high speed train system, yet it still sucks and is insanely expensive.  Personally I’ve used the train a few times and in some specific cases is good to use, but usually it’s far faster and cheaper to just drive or fly to your destination.
> 
> 
> 
> The video explains how you're wrong
> but don't watch it. Just keep being wrong.
Click to expand...


  How often do you ride a train?


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## JWBooth

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


There are no personal property rights or imminent domain issues in China.
California is having to abandon sections of it's high speed rail due to massive cost overruns (corruption).


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## peach174

Americans like their individual freedom.
They don't like being herded like cattle into small confinements, like trains.
They enjoy driving and seeing our country.
They like stopping when they want to, not a train scheduled stops.


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## WillMunny

When will you liberals learn it's a matter of geography?  The interstate distances in the United States are so massive (compared to small countries w/ high-speed trains) that long distance trains will never - and I mean NEVER - make a profit in America because it simply takes too long.  That's why the airline industry will always have a massive, gargantuan hegemony over long-distance travel in this country.  Our airline industry is so massive, why would we really need trains to get around the country anyway?  It would be like trying to sell a horse-drawn carriage at a car lot.  Plus,  if you shop around you can find very cheap flights to other parts of the country.  In some cases, even cheaper than Amtrak.

Despite it's almost-as-expensive-as-flying high fares, Amtrak has been a money-loser since it first appeared in 1971.  Long-distance passenger trains in America always run in the red, not the black.  I call Amtrak trains "hippo wagons" because so many of its passengers are such morbidly obese, gelatinous "islands unto themselves" they can't fit in a narrow airplane seat (Amtrak coach seats are twice as large).


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## Mike Dwight

Lucky Chinese be like Half Life 2 Life. One-Child Policy! One-Child Policy!


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## Manonthestreet

I blame CA


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## westwall

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.







Who cares.  High speed trains the world over are losers.  There are only TWO lines in the entire world that actually can pay for themselves.  Want to know some other things that China has that we don't?  No labor laws, no pollution control laws, no freedom of speech, no native airline production capability, the car manufacturing is a joke.  I will take the USA, and no trains, over China, and their fast trains, any day of the week.


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## theHawk

Angelo said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because we have superior freeways and Americans like being independent and free to drive their own cars.  Not to mention trains never take you to and from you beginning and end destination, you always need a second mode of transportation just to get to the train.
> 
> Europe has a so called good high speed train system, yet it still sucks and is insanely expensive.  Personally I’ve used the train a few times and in some specific cases is good to use, but usually it’s far faster and cheaper to just drive or fly to your destination.
> 
> 
> 
> The video explains how you're wrong
> but don't watch it. Just keep being wrong.
Click to expand...


It’s all propaganda crap from globalists and statists that want the little people to conform and use public transportation.  

If rail is so fucking good, then it would be all over the place in America.  At one time it was, then it was replaced with aircraft and highways, because that was even better.  

Everyone always says that Germany’s rail system is one of the best.  I’ve lived here for many years now, and I can tell you it sucks ass.  You still need to drive to a train station, and in a big city pay an absurd amount for parking by the hour.  Or take a taxi which is expensive as fuck as well, because you know, you have to pay for their healthcare and paid vacations, and the country bans Uber.  Then there is the cost.  It’s far cheaper to just drive somewhere close than to pay for round trip tickets.  The time tables always suck, you have to wait for connections, and of course there are delays and redirects all the time.

If you are traveling far, especially to another country, it’s always far cheaper and faster to fly.

But hey, we all don’t know any better.  It’s a good thing we got people like you to tell us what’s best for us.


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## the other mike

theHawk said:


> ... all propaganda crap .


From big oil, ,big rubber, big concrete/asphalt, big auto and Teamsters.


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## Deplorable Yankee

i can hop on a lil commuter plane for 50 to 100 one way to newark 4 to 5 hours
i can drive to the holland tunnel in 12 ...ive done both ....drive is less than 2 tanks of gas 
the drive nothing but  cows farms all the way to the Pennsylvania turnpike ...im not kidding

theirs no train to Nashville from here either 
i think the nearest amtrak is like 200 miles away ...could be 300
and thiers no need for one


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## Anathema

There is no legitimate power for Amtrak to even exist, never mind spend Billions of dollars on something the vast majority of US Citizens will not use. 

The fact that no PRIVATE company is willing to invest money in this idea shows that there is no practical option or public interest in such a service.


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## the other mike

westwall said:


> Who cares.  High speed trains the world over are losers.  There are only TWO lines in the entire world that actually can pay for themselves.  Want to know some other things that China has that we don't?  No labor laws, no pollution control laws, no freedom of speech, no native airline production capability, the car manufacturing is a joke.  I will take the USA, and no trains, over China, and their fast trains, any day of the week.


When gas is $10 a gallon you'll start caring and China will be laughing.


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## Markle

JWBooth said:


> There are no personal property rights or imminent domain issues in China.
> California is having to abandon sections of it's high speed rail due to massive cost overruns (corruption).



I believe the high-speed rail in California has been abandoned.  As was forecast, the costs have doubled and were close to doubling again.


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## Kilroy2

I really hate flying

and I will never get on a train going 200 miles and hour

If I can't drive there then then the mountain will have to come to Mohammad. 

still in the large cities where traffic is horrible, a train can be useful


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## Scamp

Trains are for people who don't have cars or cant afford to fly.


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## theHawk

Angelo said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... all propaganda crap .
> 
> 
> 
> From big oil, ,big rubber, big concrete/asphalt, big auto and Teamsters.
Click to expand...

That’s right, I like my high powered gas guzzling performance cars made by “big auto”, and laying down rubber on the asphalt....and I will until the day I die.  

You and your tranny Brigade friends are welcome to fund high speed rail all you want, and appease all those big steel, big train, big electric corporations.


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## Deplorable Yankee

the last time i drove i stopped at my friends house in belmar ..hes right on the beach and no guidos


Kilroy2 said:


> I really hate flying
> 
> and I will never get on a train going 200 miles and hour
> 
> If I can't drive there then then the mountain will have to come to Mohammad.
> 
> still in the large cities where traffic is horrible, a train can be useful




you would think 




> Everything Will Be Totally Normal On Every Subway Line (Except The 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, A, D, E, F, J, L, M, N, Q, R, and W) This Weekend


that goes on every weekend


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## Anathema

Scamp said:


> Trains are for people who don't have cars or cant afford to fly.



Yep. I can drive from my home in Massachusetts to my mother’s home in Buffalo NY quicker and cheaper than Amtrak can get me there. I can fly cheaper most of the time.


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## the other mike

I can ride to the store in under an hour.


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## Dekster

fast trains are not important and Europe's train fairs are not cheap.  I recall seeing where a student flew from inside England to Ibiza and then Ibiza to London for less than it would have cost him to take the train from his hometown to London.


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## Marion Morrison

The US could use a little train infrastructure, sure!

How can we get anything like that when all Congress does is waste time going after Trump?


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## Markle

The Acela Express is the only high-speed rail in the United States which is profitable.  The reason it is profitable is that the NE Corridor, where it runs, has a population of 42 million people.

In decades, nowhere in Europe or Japan has a high-speed rail been built that is profitable.  Their cost is massive.  Studies in Europe have also shown that building a high-speed rail alongside an overcrowded highway takes no traffic away from the highway.

All the high-speed rail routes in Europe and Japan have already been built.  They all run along very crowded areas which make some of them feasible.

Compared with Europe, our country is still in its infancy and transportation here has made faster and further travel much easier.

What we should do is drastically improve and expand our freight rail systems.  That would take trucks off the crowded highways and speed transportation of goods.


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## HereWeGoAgain

Angelo said:


> I can ride to the store in under an hour.



  And fertilize the parking lot!!


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## the other mike

Marion Morrison said:


> The US could use a little train infrastructure, sure!
> 
> How can we get anything like that when all Congress does is waste time going after Trump?


The media could drum up popular support for it but they won't.


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## Markle

Kilroy2 said:


> I really hate flying
> 
> and I will never get on a train going 200 miles and hour
> 
> If I can't drive there then then the mountain will have to come to Mohammad.
> 
> still in the large cities where traffic is horrible, a train can be useful



There are no trains in the US that travel at 200 mph.  I doubt that there are any that travel that speed in the world.  There are some that travel 200 kph which is about 154 mph.

A train in a city is light rail and can make sense.  We've had elevated rails (the "L") in cities for many, many decades.


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## BluesLegend

Stupid shit liberals have pissed away over $100 BILLION on high speed and light rail and its been a complete FAILURE.


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## Anathema

Angelo said:


> The media could drum up popular support for it but they won't.



How? I live in the one area of the country that has any sort of reasonable rail system and I won’t even use it. I’d rather drive... it’s faster and more cost effective.


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## BluesLegend

Markle said:


> Kilroy2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> A train in a city is light rail and can make sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dumb ass Democrats spent BILLIONS on light rail in Portland, OR. This after a study of other light rail projects around the country found light rail has failed everywhere it was tried in a city the size of Portland. Typical dumb ass Dem's they thought this time it would work.
> 
> Today the light rail trains run around half empty while the freeways which they neglected for decades while spending all the money on light rail are a daily stop and go traffic jam nightmare.
Click to expand...


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## the other mike

Crumbling empires don't plan ahead, except for which country to attack next.


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## the other mike

*China's high-speed rail network to surpass 30,000 km in 2019 | gbtimes.com*


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## the other mike

Talk is cheap as presidents with big promises always demonstrate.


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## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares.  High speed trains the world over are losers.  There are only TWO lines in the entire world that actually can pay for themselves.  Want to know some other things that China has that we don't?  No labor laws, no pollution control laws, no freedom of speech, no native airline production capability, the car manufacturing is a joke.  I will take the USA, and no trains, over China, and their fast trains, any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> When gas is $10 a gallon you'll start caring and China will be laughing.
Click to expand...






No, I won't.  China is a giant ant farm.  You should go.  You might like it.  You seem to be a fairly slow individual.  Ant farms are great for slow people.


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## westwall

Angelo said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US could use a little train infrastructure, sure!
> 
> How can we get anything like that when all Congress does is waste time going after Trump?
> 
> 
> 
> The media could drum up popular support for it but they won't.
Click to expand...






They have been trying for years, dude.  They never report the bad parts of high speed rail.  That is tacit approval.  But like has been said before.  The railroad is for the peons, the rich people, you know the ones who have convinced you that rail is great, they won't ever be seen on it.  They will enjoy the nice wide open roads that you peons can no longer use.


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## Rambunctious

The United States is spending way too much for the defense of other nations...those nations have money for infrastructure and we don't...isn't it time we come home?....the second world war and the Korean war is over....WTF?...we have needs here in America...but for some reason our government thinks we belong in the roll of the worlds police...it would be fine if we were getting compensated but we are not....

We could have nice trains and airports and streets and highways and bridges and decent retirement homes for our elderly....if we would just be a little more America first.....Trump is our best hope...the swamp must be getting rich with the status quo.....because they are fighting him every step of the way....


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## the other mike

westwall said:


> ...you peons .


Us peons.
Whatever you say,


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## Markle

Angelo said:


> *China's high-speed rail network to surpass 30,000 km in 2019 | gbtimes.com*


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## Markle

Rambunctious said:


> The United States is spending way too much for the defense of other nations...those nations have money for infrastructure and we don't...isn't it time we come home?....the second world war and the Korean war is over....WTF?...we have needs here in America...but for some reason our government thinks we belong in the roll of the worlds police...it would be fine if we were getting compensated but we are not....
> 
> We could have nice trains and airports and streets and highways and bridges and decent retirement homes for our elderly....if we would just be a little more America first.....Trump is our best hope...the swamp must be getting rich with the status quo.....because they are fighting him every step of the way....



Who do you suggest should fill the vacuum if we pull all our troops out of other countries?  When failed former President Barack Hussein Obama pulled all our troops out of Iraq, against his generals advice, the vacuum was filled by ISIS and Russia.


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## Blackrook

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


Our nation is too large to be traveled by train, even high-speed train.

But that's OK, we have this wonderful invention called airplanes, invented by Americans Orville and Wilbur Wright.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

HereWeGoAgain said:


> Why would I take the train when I can jump on a plane?




That right there. There is simply no market for high-speed rail in the United States


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

Markle said:


> Rambunctious said:
> 
> 
> 
> The United States is spending way too much for the defense of other nations...those nations have money for infrastructure and we don't...isn't it time we come home?....the second world war and the Korean war is over....WTF?...we have needs here in America...but for some reason our government thinks we belong in the roll of the worlds police...it would be fine if we were getting compensated but we are not....
> 
> We could have nice trains and airports and streets and highways and bridges and decent retirement homes for our elderly....if we would just be a little more America first.....Trump is our best hope...the swamp must be getting rich with the status quo.....because they are fighting him every step of the way....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who do you suggest should fill the vacuum if we pull all our troops out of other countries?  When failed former President Barack Hussein Obama pulled all our troops out of Iraq, against his generals advice, the vacuum was filled by ISIS and Russia.
Click to expand...


And who was it that invaded Iraq in the first place?


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## Remodeling Maidiac

BlackFlag said:


> Americans don’t think ahead or care beyond short-term satisfaction


Says the guy (identity cautiously assumed) who would vote against a known good economy just to see Trump lose.

Irony at its best


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## Daryl Hunt

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...you peons .
> 
> 
> 
> Us peons.
> Whatever you say,
Click to expand...


What's sad is he's right.  War is not supposed to nice and tidy.  The problem is, we have too many idjits in charge that have no skin in the game.   As long as someone else does the fighting,killing and dying, it's just like a board game to them.


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## the other mike

These guys are rolling in their graves saying
"What a bunch of pussies ---letting the fucking Chinese pass us ??"


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## blackhawk

I would rather drive or fly.


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## Blackrook

Only liberals care about fast trains.  If they're built, no one will ride on them and they will lose billions of dollars.


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## impuretrash

BlackFlag said:


> Americans don’t think ahead or care beyond short-term satisfaction



Open-borders mulitculturalist commie says everyone else is short-sighted.


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## 2aguy

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.




Trains.......really?   They were, maybe, cool in the 1900s......but the future is robot cars that you rent, not buy, and take you where you want to go on demand.......trains are the way the government tries to control the population...where they can go and when...


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## the other mike

westwall said:


> No, I won't.  China is a giant ant farm.  You should go.  You might like it.  You seem to be a fairly slow individual.  Ant farms are great for slow people.





westwall said:


> As I gear up for the Reno Air races yet again, I reflected on how much I would rather be out flying than babysitting a bunch of progressive silly people. So, flying I will be doing, and whining you will be doing, but I won't be bothering to listen!
> 
> So treat the rest of the staff well, and feel free to keep flaming me, as I will stop in from time to time, but *y'all try and be civil to one another!** because ultimately we are all Americans.*


Just as I suspected - another egotistical hypocrite and a fake patriot.


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## the other mike

High speed rail is one of those trigger-phrases that always sets off the micro-chipped neocon trolls.


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## cwise76

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


Beautiful clean coal


----------



## Blackrook

On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.

So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.


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## Uncensored2008

BlackFlag said:


> Americans don’t think ahead or care beyond short-term satisfaction



We have airlines


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## the other mike

cwise76 said:


> Beautiful clean coal


----------



## the other mike

Blackrook said:


> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.


It's unsustainable at the volume we're going at, by 2040 unless you have a new bio-jet fuel.


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## Blackrook

Angelo said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> It's unsustainable at the volume we're going at, by 2040 unless you have a new bio-jet fuel.
Click to expand...

Unsustainable how?  Will the world end?


----------



## the other mike

Blackrook said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> It's unsustainable at the volume we're going at, by 2040 unless you have a new bio-jet fuel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unsustainable how?  Will the world end?
Click to expand...

The cost of gasoline and jet fuel will be too expensive after
they stop lying and saying we haven't passed 'peak oil' stage.

A rail line can run on a series of wind turbines, solar plants , off the grid or all of the above or combinations of and new mag -lev technology coming along at a rapid pace will run on less electricity..


----------



## Markle

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> And who was it that invaded Iraq in the first place?



Sanctioned by the United Nations, after hundreds of sanctions, more than a dozen countries took part and the action was authorized by Congress.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I won't.  China is a giant ant farm.  You should go.  You might like it.  You seem to be a fairly slow individual.  Ant farms are great for slow people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> As I gear up for the Reno Air races yet again, I reflected on how much I would rather be out flying than babysitting a bunch of progressive silly people. So, flying I will be doing, and whining you will be doing, but I won't be bothering to listen!
> 
> So treat the rest of the staff well, and feel free to keep flaming me, as I will stop in from time to time, but *y'all try and be civil to one another!** because ultimately we are all Americans.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just as I suspected - another egotistical hypocrite and a fake patriot.
Click to expand...






You get what you give, dude.


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> You get what you give, dude.


So we're overlooking your little attempted insult about me being 'slow' and jumping to the part where I pounce on you with the perfect response leaving you tongue-twisted holding your balls with a thumb up your ass, probably your Chinese midget girlfriend's ?.

That about sum it up, train-hater ?


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> You get what you give, dude.
> 
> 
> 
> So we're overlooking your little attempted insult about me being 'slow' and jumping to the part where I pounce on you with the perfect response leaving you tongue-twisted holding your balls with a thumb up your ass, probably your Chinese midget girlfriend's ?.
> 
> That about sum it up, train-hater ?
Click to expand...






No, I was talking about your general insult to all Americans because we have the temerity to not waste money on fast trains.

And thanks for making it plain that you are a sock.  Your type usually are.  There are so few people who have as warped ideas as you that you have to populate message boards with bunches of false IDs just so you can get support.  Really sad dude.

And i guess you must live in a bubble, or maybe your head lives up your keester, but you have insulted me, and multiple others in many threads, so like i said, you get what you give.

Now, if you want to call a truce, and behave in a manner different from a douchebag, i will be happy to do likewise.


----------



## BlackFlag

Grampa Murked U said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans don’t think ahead or care beyond short-term satisfaction
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy (identity cautiously assumed) who would vote against a known good economy just to see Trump lose.
> 
> Irony at its best
Click to expand...

I’m not voting against an economy, I’m voting against what I consider evil and dangerous


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> No, I was talking about your general insult to all Americans because we have the temerity to not waste money on fast trains.
> .



U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time


----------



## westwall

BlackFlag said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans don’t think ahead or care beyond short-term satisfaction
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy (identity cautiously assumed) who would vote against a known good economy just to see Trump lose.
> 
> Irony at its best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not voting against an economy, I’m voting against what I consider evil and dangerous
Click to expand...





What is truly sad is you know so little about the technology's involved that you actually think that trains are better for moving people than aircraft.  Here's a hint...if they were, EVERYBODY would be doing it.  Trains have enormous environmental costs, and the cost to build and maintain the infrastructure, especially on a high speed train is tremendous.  Efficiency wins the day.  When high speed trains become as efficient as air travel, then people will use them.  But not until that happens.


----------



## 22lcidw

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I was talking about your general insult to all Americans because we have the temerity to not waste money on fast trains.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
Click to expand...

Trains are 19th century. They are from the slave era. The era of voting rights denied to women. The era of the horse and buggy. The train track is the same as the last buggy whip. It has its uses for products and some human transport here in the U.S. but not much more.


----------



## the other mike

22lcidw said:


> Trains are 19th century. They are from the slave era. The era of voting rights denied to women. The era of the horse and buggy. The train track is the same as the last buggy whip. It has its uses for products and some human transport here in the U.S. but not much more.


----------



## Papageorgio

Angelo said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US could use a little train infrastructure, sure!
> 
> How can we get anything like that when all Congress does is waste time going after Trump?
> 
> 
> 
> The media could drum up popular support for it but they won't.
Click to expand...


I travel by car or air, trains are always late, I rode my last train in 2013.


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans don’t think ahead or care beyond short-term satisfaction
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy (identity cautiously assumed) who would vote against a known good economy just to see Trump lose.
> 
> Irony at its best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not voting against an economy, I’m voting against what I consider evil and dangerous
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is truly sad is you know so little about the technology's involved that you actually think that trains are better for moving people than aircraft.  Here's a hint...if they were, EVERYBODY would be doing it.  Trains have enormous environmental costs, and the cost to build and maintain the infrastructure, especially on a high speed train is tremendous.  Efficiency wins the day.  When high speed trains become as efficient as air travel, then people will use them.  But not until that happens.
Click to expand...

Airlines Are Suspending Flights Because Fuel Is Too Expensive | OilPrice.com


----------



## Avatar4321

Maybe because there is no real demand for it. We have cars and planes


----------



## Blackrook

China is a socialist country that builds all kinds of shit nobody needs.  They have vast ghost cities where no one lives.

The Unreal, Eerie Emptiness of China's 'Ghost Cities'


----------



## Rustic

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


----------



## Blackrook

China's coal pollution is so bad, it almost killed a friend of mine who visited there.


----------



## the other mike

*Traffic jams cost US $87 billion in lost productivity in 2018; Boston and DC have the worst*

Out in the southern midwest, I can drive 440 miles in 5 hours in almost any direction anytime of any day of the week. This 440 mile stretch below will average drivers 10 to 12 hours in good weather.


----------



## the other mike

Blackrook said:


> China's coal pollution is so bad, it almost killed a friend of mine who visited there.


They're phasing it out , but with the huge population right now they have no choice.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Markle said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> And who was it that invaded Iraq in the first place?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sanctioned by the United Nations, after hundreds of sanctions, more than a dozen countries took part and the action was authorized by Congress.
Click to expand...


Doesn't change anything, does it?


----------



## Markle

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> And who was it that invaded Iraq in the first place?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sanctioned by the United Nations, after hundreds of sanctions, more than a dozen countries took part and the action was authorized by Congress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn't change anything, does it?
Click to expand...


Just proving that who was it that invaded Iraq is not relevant today.  It hasn't mattered in decades.

At the time it was the right thing to do.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans don’t think ahead or care beyond short-term satisfaction
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy (identity cautiously assumed) who would vote against a known good economy just to see Trump lose.
> 
> Irony at its best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not voting against an economy, I’m voting against what I consider evil and dangerous
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is truly sad is you know so little about the technology's involved that you actually think that trains are better for moving people than aircraft.  Here's a hint...if they were, EVERYBODY would be doing it.  Trains have enormous environmental costs, and the cost to build and maintain the infrastructure, especially on a high speed train is tremendous.  Efficiency wins the day.  When high speed trains become as efficient as air travel, then people will use them.  But not until that happens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Airlines Are Suspending Flights Because Fuel Is Too Expensive | OilPrice.com
Click to expand...






August of 2018.  Got anything more current?  oh, btw she seems to be a biofuel propagandist.  Care to guess how much more expensive biofuels are than fossil fuels?


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> *Traffic jams cost US $87 billion in lost productivity in 2018; Boston and DC have the worst*
> 
> Out in the southern midwest, I can drive 440 miles in 5 hours in almost any direction anytime of any day of the week. This 440 mile stretch below will average drivers 10 to 12 hours in good weather.







Try teleworking instead.  That would do more to reduce traffic, reduce pollution, and increase the quality of life for employees than ANY other factor.

You should look it up.


----------



## Kilroy2

Markle said:


> Kilroy2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I really hate flying
> 
> and I will never get on a train going 200 miles and hour
> 
> If I can't drive there then then the mountain will have to come to Mohammad.
> 
> still in the large cities where traffic is horrible, a train can be useful
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no trains in the US that travel at 200 mph.  I doubt that there are any that travel that speed in the world.  There are some that travel 200 kph which is about 154 mph.
> 
> A train in a city is light rail and can make sense.  We've had elevated rails (the "L") in cities for many, many decades.
Click to expand...

yeah in the US 

But the fastest model train in the world is reported to go 268 mph and is in China
There are 5 others models that are clocking over 200

still not close to a plane

Still whenever I was on a train, i had to get a window seat just to take in the scenery

At over 200 mph , damn your going to miss it all or get whiplash


----------



## Yarddog

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.




Sure China can create these HS bullet trains.  Because if anyone there tried the Corrupt bull shit that they do in California from sub- contractors all the way to state politicians that makes building a train impossible, as we have just witnessed by their complete ineptness here where I live.... they would be imprisoned or executed by the government.  Damn right they are going to make their trains run on time.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

Blackrook said:


> Only liberals care about fast trains.  If they're built, no one will ride on them and they will lose billions of dollars.



Let's take a look at a possible high speed rail versus short haul air and driving.  We'll us where I am to Denver.  And trust me, a high speed rail would be a damned site cheaper to build where you are at instead of here.  But let's do it anyway.

You fly from Grand Junction to Denver.  By the time you mess around with the terminal, boarding, taxiing, flight, landing, deboarding and the terminal, you just blew 3 1/2 hours.  

Now, let's drive that 240 miles.  It's going to take about 4 1/2 hours total.  Flying, you saved 1 hour.  

Now, let's do a high speed train.  That high speed train is going to do it in 1/2 the driving time so it's going to take 2 1/4 hour.  And that is just doubling the speed of the car.  Real high speed rail will at least triple it or quadruple it.  Meaning, real his speed rail will take about an hour and a half.  And when include taking at least 4 stops of 15 minutes each in the larger towns, that means you still get there in less time than flying.  

Of course, due to the Rocky Mountains, the High Speed rail is not viable.  But from NYC to Washington DC, a high speed train can make that trip in half the time than you driving and about 3/4 the time that it takes to fly.  And the HS Rail can do it much less costly than the Air Travel.  

The reason places like Japan, Europe and China have done this is that they Nationalized it and just did it. They treat it like we did going to the Moon, the B-29, and the Manhattan program.  A Corporation or a State alone can't initially afford it.  Just remember, the Interstate System was Nationalized just like the German Autobahn.  If it can get you there quicker, even the Rich will use it if they are smart.  When the HS Rail does it much faster than the Lear Jet then the Rich didn't get or stay rich by making stupid decisions.

HS Rail is not going to replace long distance air travel but it can completely replace short hauls from city to city in the east and west coast.  Okay, it's not doable between places like Kansas City and Denver since it wouldn't have the traffic.  Or from NYC to LA which would have the traffic but at some point, the faster air travel makes up for it's built in delays.  And the Aircraft is the most economical way for that distance.  

Can HS Rail be done?  Sure it can.  Does anyone else care if you will ride it or not?   I know I don't find it too alarming.


----------



## JWBooth

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


China is rolling in US cash due to focusing on commerce. The US is ridiculously deep in debt due to focusing on empire and warfare.


----------



## gtopa1

theHawk said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because we have superior freeways and Americans like being independent and free to drive their own cars.  Not to mention trains never take you to and from you beginning and end destination, you always need a second mode of transportation just to get to the train.
> 
> Europe has a so called good high speed train system, yet it still sucks and is insanely expensive.  Personally I’ve used the train a few times and in some specific cases is good to use, but usually it’s far faster and cheaper to just drive or fly to your destination.
Click to expand...

The train from Rome to Paris....disgusting!!!

Greg


----------



## Daryl Hunt

gtopa1 said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because we have superior freeways and Americans like being independent and free to drive their own cars.  Not to mention trains never take you to and from you beginning and end destination, you always need a second mode of transportation just to get to the train.
> 
> Europe has a so called good high speed train system, yet it still sucks and is insanely expensive.  Personally I’ve used the train a few times and in some specific cases is good to use, but usually it’s far faster and cheaper to just drive or fly to your destination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The train from Rome to Paris....disgusting!!!
> 
> Greg
Click to expand...


The problem with that is is the same problem we would have around here.  The Alps get in the way.  And trying to put a hispeed rail through a mountain chain is not only cost prohibitive but during the winter months, there are going to be days it's going to have to slow way down or not run at all.


----------



## Marion Morrison

Blackrook said:


> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.



Is it really that far from Las Vegas to Reno?


----------



## Deplorable Yankee

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BlackFlag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Americans don’t think ahead or care beyond short-term satisfaction
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy (identity cautiously assumed) who would vote against a known good economy just to see Trump lose.
> 
> Irony at its best
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I’m not voting against an economy, I’m voting against what I consider evil and dangerous
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is truly sad is you know so little about the technology's involved that you actually think that trains are better for moving people than aircraft.  Here's a hint...if they were, EVERYBODY would be doing it.  Trains have enormous environmental costs, and the cost to build and maintain the infrastructure, especially on a high speed train is tremendous.  Efficiency wins the day.  When high speed trains become as efficient as air travel, then people will use them.  But not until that happens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Airlines Are Suspending Flights Because Fuel Is Too Expensive | OilPrice.com
Click to expand...



airlines scrambling to work out higher fuel costs
shocker thats never happened before ........like the 15 other times it has


And by the time the government lays down the first track thats  already over budget oil prices will probably have dropped
heres why the Saudis have lost contol of the market
When prices hit 80 and 100 and keep going  a barrel americans cant resit the money ....more wells come on line
you'll get a glut .....AGAIN


> 2040


i wouldnt worry about it to much








the country doesn't tap as much as it could Not by a long shot.
some annalist  say we could up production 3 million more barrels a day  pretty quickly
the Russians and Saudis would be eatin dust or jet exhaust 


chooo chooo


----------



## the other mike




----------



## Daryl Hunt

Marion Morrison said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it really that far from Las Vegas to Reno?
Click to expand...


To us Westerners, it's not that far.  To an Easterner it's light years.  But the point is, the traffic from Reno to LV isn't high enough to pay for a HS Train.  HS Trains make sense in high capacity corridors only.  I think a little common sense needs to be used here.


----------



## Marion Morrison

Daryl Hunt said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it really that far from Las Vegas to Reno?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To us Westerners, it's not that far.  To an Easterner it's light years.  But the point is, the traffic from Reno to LV isn't high enough to pay for a HS Train.  HS Trains make sense in high capacity corridors only.  I think a little common sense needs to be used here.
Click to expand...


Isn't it an hour drive? Wtf?!

I've driven from Palm Springs to Las Vegas and back. Not even paved roads and shit, once you get out of California.


----------



## Blackrook

Marion Morrison said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it really that far from Las Vegas to Reno?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's a seven hour drive.  Even with a fast train it would take maybe four hours, and then four hours back, for a total of eight hours round-trip.  On a plane I can do the entire round-trip in two hours.  So fast trains make no sense.


----------



## Blackrook

And then if you're on a fast train, you don't have a car when you arrive.

The whole point of fast trains is that liberals want people to stop driving cars, but they forget that once you get to your destination, you need a car.


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> *Traffic jams cost US $87 billion in lost productivity in 2018; Boston and DC have the worst*
> 
> Out in the southern midwest, I can drive 440 miles in 5 hours in almost any direction anytime of any day of the week. This 440 mile stretch below will average drivers 10 to 12 hours in good weather.



You can drive 440 miles in 5 hours in almost any direction?  I'd like to see that.  An average of 88 miles per hour for five hours will get you more than one speeding ticket and probably an arrest after the first two or three.

The corridor you highlight in your map is the route of the Acela Express.  The only profitable high-speed rail line in the United States.  A corridor with over 44 million people.


----------



## deanrd

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


 The GOP half of America thinks college is bad for the country. 
 How do you educate these people when they believe that education is bad?


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> China's coal pollution is so bad, it almost killed a friend of mine who visited there.
> 
> 
> 
> They're phasing it out , but with the huge population right now they have no choice.
Click to expand...


China continues to build very high tech, ultra clean coal power plants.


----------



## james bond

We have Bay Area Rapid Transit, but it doesn't make money.  None of these advanced technology train systems make money, so the tax payers end up funding it.  The libs think it helps with AGW.  I'm for clean air, but AGW isn't worth the high taxes.  Only in the crowded urban centers does it help with air pollution.  No need for national.


----------



## Markle

deanrd said:


> The GOP half of America thinks college is bad for the country.
> How do you educate these people when they believe that education is bad?



A typical lie from a far, far left dreamer.  Why?


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


>



The number of incidents over a quarter of a century looks trivial.  In addition, what is the definition of an incident?  Who defines all those pipelines as dangerous?


----------



## Daryl Hunt

Marion Morrison said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it really that far from Las Vegas to Reno?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To us Westerners, it's not that far.  To an Easterner it's light years.  But the point is, the traffic from Reno to LV isn't high enough to pay for a HS Train.  HS Trains make sense in high capacity corridors only.  I think a little common sense needs to be used here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't it an hour drive? Wtf?!
> 
> I've driven from Palm Springs to Las Vegas and back. Not even paved roads and shit, once you get out of California.
Click to expand...


Then you make my point.  If there isn't enough travel to justify a paved road, Public Transportation would be a huge wast of money.


----------



## the other mike

Markle said:


> The number of incidents over a quarter of a century looks trivial.  In addition, what is the definition of an incident?  Who defines all those pipelines as dangerous?


I would venture to say that no oil spill is trivial.
If you have a swimming pool, and someone poured a quart of motor oil into it 
would you think it was no big deal ? ( and motor oil is much cleaner than crude oil )


----------



## Mike Dwight

Did you guys see all those drums? At the Beijing Olympics?! *Hands a gun to a Korean.* Model Minorities outsource military service, which is nice. Kim will invade with Trump's blessing but then that's where our troopers eliminate both sides for us. Ya we're going to make a Disney World. Mulan Disney.
Nobody likes BOng-gu, but I still like Bong-Gu (John Meyer). The King 2 Hearts: Episode 9 » Dramabeans Korean drama recaps Kpop fan. 
Korea's got scary dictators, how come we all study Tianamen Square. How come Mao doesn't get any silk?


----------



## westwall

Marion Morrison said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it really that far from Las Vegas to Reno?
Click to expand...




It's a nine hour drive.  I fly it in 5


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it really that far from Las Vegas to Reno?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a nine hour drive.  I fly it in 5
Click to expand...


In one of my old late 60s retired police cruisers, I can make it less than 4.  Of course, Cops might object me driving at over 120mph (having to pit at least twice) so I might have to cruise at 135 to make up the difference.  Imagine a HS rail doing 190mph on the same trip.  It's just not  going to be worth it.  The days of driving a car that fast are all long gone.  Today, when traveling down 95, I have to remember that's the hiway number not the speed limit.


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it really that far from Las Vegas to Reno?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a nine hour drive.  I fly it in 5
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In one of my old late 60s retired police cruisers, I can make it less than 4.  Of course, Cops might object me driving at over 120mph (having to pit at least twice) so I might have to cruise at 135 to make up the difference.  Imagine a HS rail doing 190mph on the same trip.  It's just not  going to be worth it.  The days of driving a car that fast are all long gone.  Today, when traveling down 95, I have to remember that's the hiway number not the speed limit.
Click to expand...





Believe me, in my GT40 I  can do it in two and a half hours, including fuel stops, but those speeding tickets are murder!

We do have the Silver State Classic Challenge though, so hi speed road racing is alive and well in Nevada!


----------



## ThunderKiss1965

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.

All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it really that far from Las Vegas to Reno?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a nine hour drive.  I fly it in 5
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In one of my old late 60s retired police cruisers, I can make it less than 4.  Of course, Cops might object me driving at over 120mph (having to pit at least twice) so I might have to cruise at 135 to make up the difference.  Imagine a HS rail doing 190mph on the same trip.  It's just not  going to be worth it.  The days of driving a car that fast are all long gone.  Today, when traveling down 95, I have to remember that's the hiway number not the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Believe me, in my GT40 I  can do it in two and a half hours, including fuel stops, but those speeding tickets are murder!
> 
> We do have the Silver State Classic Challenge though, so hi speed road racing is alive and well in Nevada!
Click to expand...


It used to be here as well but we imported way too many Florida and Texas drivers.  The Texans drive completely insane and you haven't lived until you come whipping around a turn and filling your windshield is the slowest Floridian on the face of the earth with their left turn signal on.


----------



## Deplorable Yankee

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marion Morrison said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, I'm flying from Las Vegas to Reno and back in one day.  Couldn't do that on a train, even a fast train.
> 
> So, what you're asking people to do is slow down when you ask them to ride a fast train.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it really that far from Las Vegas to Reno?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a nine hour drive.  I fly it in 5
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In one of my old late 60s retired police cruisers, I can make it less than 4.  Of course, Cops might object me driving at over 120mph (having to pit at least twice) so I might have to cruise at 135 to make up the difference.  Imagine a HS rail doing 190mph on the same trip.  It's just not  going to be worth it.  The days of driving a car that fast are all long gone.  Today, when traveling down 95, I have to remember that's the hiway number not the speed limit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Believe me, in my GT40 I  can do it in two and a half hours, including fuel stops, but those speeding tickets are murder!
> 
> We do have the Silver State Classic Challenge though, so hi speed road racing is alive and well in Nevada!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It used to be here as well but we imported way too many Florida and Texas drivers.  The Texans drive completely insane and you haven't lived until you come whipping around a turn and filling your windshield is the slowest Floridian on the face of the earth with their left turn signal on.
Click to expand...



ya gotta see em on the road in TN uh boy ...ya think yer in NJ

For the love of god TN stop tailgating and learn how to merge
AND YIELD SIGNS look it up  ...jus sayin


----------



## the other mike

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.
> 
> All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US


Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.
> 
> All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US
> 
> 
> 
> Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?
Click to expand...






You keep pushing this meme that we are falling behind...it's the opposite, dude.  They are behind us.  We fly, they use a train.

Guess which is more technically advanced!


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.
> 
> All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US
> 
> 
> 
> Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep pushing this meme that we are falling behind...it's the opposite, dude.  They are behind us.  We fly, they use a train.
> 
> Guess which is more technically advanced!
Click to expand...


china has a city that the smog killed thousands of people each month (guess that was before they noticed that their population was sinking).  They started out by replacing all the buses and trains with electrical ones.  Then they replaced the trucks with electric one.  They are in the process of getting rid of all the gas cars now and are almost done.  Even the Taxis are now electric.  Even with the primary power generation coming from Coal, the air is not the killer it once was.  You now see people without the face masks.  In may ways, we are ahead of china but in other ways, they are light years ahead of us.


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.
> 
> All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US
> 
> 
> 
> Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep pushing this meme that we are falling behind...it's the opposite, dude.  They are behind us.  We fly, they use a train.
> 
> Guess which is more technically advanced!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> china has a city that the smog killed thousands of people each month (guess that was before they noticed that their population was sinking).  They started out by replacing all the buses and trains with electrical ones.  Then they replaced the trucks with electric one.  They are in the process of getting rid of all the gas cars now and are almost done.  Even the Taxis are now electric.  Even with the primary power generation coming from Coal, the air is not the killer it once was.  You now see people without the face masks.  In may ways, we are ahead of china but in other ways, they are light years ahead of us.
Click to expand...






And guess what, that is from all of those coal fired powerplants they are building. 

Now, what powers high speed rail?


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> You keep pushing this meme that we are falling behind...it's the opposite, dude.  They are behind us.  We fly, they use a train.
> 
> Guess which is more technically advanced!


That's why we've had to borrow so much money from them, to be "more advanced". Do you know how far ahead they'll be by 2040 (if we don't start WW3) ?
America owes China $1tn. That’s a problem for Beijing, and Trump knows it


----------



## the other mike

Sad.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.
> 
> All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US
> 
> 
> 
> Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep pushing this meme that we are falling behind...it's the opposite, dude.  They are behind us.  We fly, they use a train.
> 
> Guess which is more technically advanced!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> china has a city that the smog killed thousands of people each month (guess that was before they noticed that their population was sinking).  They started out by replacing all the buses and trains with electrical ones.  Then they replaced the trucks with electric one.  They are in the process of getting rid of all the gas cars now and are almost done.  Even the Taxis are now electric.  Even with the primary power generation coming from Coal, the air is not the killer it once was.  You now see people without the face masks.  In may ways, we are ahead of china but in other ways, they are light years ahead of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And guess what, that is from all of those coal fired powerplants they are building.
> 
> Now, what powers high speed rail?
Click to expand...


Most of the power still comes from Coal Fired Power Plants.  But converting the electricity to automotive and transportation power ends up polluting less.  In a large city with so many cars, trucks and trains, using fossil fuels to power your car/truck/bus is a double whammy.


----------



## the other mike

Always a few party poopers with their weak sauce arguments.


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.
> 
> All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US
> 
> 
> 
> Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep pushing this meme that we are falling behind...it's the opposite, dude.  They are behind us.  We fly, they use a train.
> 
> Guess which is more technically advanced!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> china has a city that the smog killed thousands of people each month (guess that was before they noticed that their population was sinking).  They started out by replacing all the buses and trains with electrical ones.  Then they replaced the trucks with electric one.  They are in the process of getting rid of all the gas cars now and are almost done.  Even the Taxis are now electric.  Even with the primary power generation coming from Coal, the air is not the killer it once was.  You now see people without the face masks.  In may ways, we are ahead of china but in other ways, they are light years ahead of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And guess what, that is from all of those coal fired powerplants they are building.
> 
> Now, what powers high speed rail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of the power still comes from Coal Fired Power Plants.  But converting the electricity to automotive and transportation power ends up polluting less.  In a large city with so many cars, trucks and trains, using fossil fuels to power your car/truck/bus is a double whammy.
Click to expand...





It's the exact opposite.   The problem is China doesn't care about its people.   They are merely cogs.  Cogs get replaced.   China cares about cheap power so that's what they use.  They also don't care about toxic sludge so that's why they are leaders in solar module production that are incredibly toxic to make.

Powerplants are the largest source of pollution.   That is a fact.  We control the pollution,  they don't.


----------



## the other mike

Daryl Hunt said:


> You now see people without the face masks.  In may ways, we are ahead of china but in other ways, they are light years ahead of us.


They have real long-term goals, where we have none.


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> The problem is China doesn't care about its people.   They are merely cogs.  Cogs get replaced.   China cares about cheap power so that's what they use. .


Replace China with USA and you'll be more accurate.
Coal Ash Contaminates Groundwater at 91% of U.S. Coal Plants, Tests Show
Utah’s Coal-ash Pollution: A Toxic Example of a National Problem • The Revelator


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is China doesn't care about its people.   They are merely cogs.  Cogs get replaced.   China cares about cheap power so that's what they use. .
> 
> 
> 
> Replace China with USA and you'll be more accurate.
> Coal Ash Contaminates Groundwater at 91% of U.S. Coal Plants, Tests Show
> Utah’s Coal-ash Pollution: A Toxic Example of a National Problem • The Revelator
Click to expand...





Proving how little you know.   Those ash dumps are over 100 years old.  The Chinese are doing the same thing...only they're doing it now....when we know better.


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> Proving how little you know.   Those ash dumps are over 100 years old.  The Chinese are doing the same thing...only they're doing it now....when we know better.


Read the OP and stop making this about China.
It's about America losing.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965

Angelo said:


> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.
> 
> All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US
> 
> 
> 
> Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?
Click to expand...

Who is going to pay for it?  If the venture was profitable private industry would have already built one. Nothing the Government does is cost effective.


----------



## the other mike

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Who is going to pay for it?  If the venture was profitable private industry would have already built one. Nothing the Government does is cost effective.


Not flushing a trillion a year in the war on terror we created
would be a good start.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You keep pushing this meme that we are falling behind...it's the opposite, dude.  They are behind us.  We fly, they use a train.
> 
> Guess which is more technically advanced!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> china has a city that the smog killed thousands of people each month (guess that was before they noticed that their population was sinking).  They started out by replacing all the buses and trains with electrical ones.  Then they replaced the trucks with electric one.  They are in the process of getting rid of all the gas cars now and are almost done.  Even the Taxis are now electric.  Even with the primary power generation coming from Coal, the air is not the killer it once was.  You now see people without the face masks.  In may ways, we are ahead of china but in other ways, they are light years ahead of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And guess what, that is from all of those coal fired powerplants they are building.
> 
> Now, what powers high speed rail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of the power still comes from Coal Fired Power Plants.  But converting the electricity to automotive and transportation power ends up polluting less.  In a large city with so many cars, trucks and trains, using fossil fuels to power your car/truck/bus is a double whammy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the exact opposite.   The problem is China doesn't care about its people.   They are merely cogs.  Cogs get replaced.   China cares about cheap power so that's what they use.  They also don't care about toxic sludge so that's why they are leaders in solar module production that are incredibly toxic to make.
> 
> Powerplants are the largest source of pollution.   That is a fact.  We control the pollution,  they don't.
Click to expand...


It's got to the point in china they are having to do something.  It affects their health care and even their factory production.   The US was well on it's way to turning the eastern and western seaboards into what china has now in their major cities.  They are left with no choice when it hit's the pocket books of the Uber chinese rich and government.  You really need to get out more.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

Angelo said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> You now see people without the face masks.  In may ways, we are ahead of china but in other ways, they are light years ahead of us.
> 
> 
> 
> They have real long-term goals, where we have none.
Click to expand...


Yes we do.  The plan is for the rich to get richer at the expense of everyone else.


----------



## james bond

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.
> 
> All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US
> 
> 
> 
> Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is going to pay for it?  If the venture was profitable private industry would have already built one. Nothing the Government does is cost effective.
Click to expand...


The US taxpayers will end up funding it.  No train system has ever made money, but that doesn't stop the libs.

Build the wall.  It will solved everything.


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> You keep pushing this meme that we are falling behind...it's the opposite, dude.  They are behind us.  We fly, they use a train.
> 
> Guess which is more technically advanced!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> china has a city that the smog killed thousands of people each month (guess that was before they noticed that their population was sinking).  They started out by replacing all the buses and trains with electrical ones.  Then they replaced the trucks with electric one.  They are in the process of getting rid of all the gas cars now and are almost done.  Even the Taxis are now electric.  Even with the primary power generation coming from Coal, the air is not the killer it once was.  You now see people without the face masks.  In may ways, we are ahead of china but in other ways, they are light years ahead of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And guess what, that is from all of those coal fired powerplants they are building.
> 
> Now, what powers high speed rail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of the power still comes from Coal Fired Power Plants.  But converting the electricity to automotive and transportation power ends up polluting less.  In a large city with so many cars, trucks and trains, using fossil fuels to power your car/truck/bus is a double whammy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the exact opposite.   The problem is China doesn't care about its people.   They are merely cogs.  Cogs get replaced.   China cares about cheap power so that's what they use.  They also don't care about toxic sludge so that's why they are leaders in solar module production that are incredibly toxic to make.
> 
> Powerplants are the largest source of pollution.   That is a fact.  We control the pollution,  they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's got to the point in china they are having to do something.  It affects their health care and even their factory production.   The US was well on it's way to turning the eastern and western seaboards into what china has now in their major cities.  They are left with no choice when it hit's the pocket books of the Uber chinese rich and government.  You really need to get out more.
Click to expand...





Until the uber wealthy Chinese start dying, nothing will change.  I will be traveling through China in a few months.  Mainly hitting the hinterlands because I have already done all of the big cities.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Proving how little you know.   Those ash dumps are over 100 years old.  The Chinese are doing the same thing...only they're doing it now....when we know better.
> 
> 
> 
> Read the OP and stop making this about China.
> It's about America losing.
Click to expand...





America ain't losing.  That's the whole point.  Poor, backwards countries are forced to use antiquated technology.  

Rich, advanced countries,  fly.


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> The number of incidents over a quarter of a century looks trivial.  In addition, what is the definition of an incident?  Who defines all those pipelines as dangerous?
> 
> 
> 
> I would venture to say that no oil spill is trivial.
> If you have a swimming pool, and someone poured a quart of motor oil into it
> would you think it was no big deal ? ( and motor oil is much cleaner than crude oil )
Click to expand...


False analogy.  For it to be fair, you'd have to be talking about a tenth of a drop in an Olympic swimming pool.


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.
> 
> All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US
> 
> 
> 
> Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?
Click to expand...


What is their (other countries) excuse for falling behind us in their economy, medical advances, drug advances, aircraft development, space development, and the list goes on?

Why would we spend hundreds of billions of dollars on an impractical mode of transportation?


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> Sad.
> View attachment 260204



Actually, here is the Acela Express in our NE corridor.


----------



## the other mike

Markle said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sad.
> View attachment 260204
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, here is the Acela Express in our NE corridor.
Click to expand...

Goes fast for about 30 miles ?


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> View attachment 260252
> 
> 
> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is going to pay for it?  If the venture was profitable private industry would have already built one. Nothing the Government does is cost effective.
> 
> 
> 
> Not flushing a trillion a year in the war on terror we created
> would be a good start.
Click to expand...


I can only presume you are being facetious.  You simply cannot be serious.


----------



## the other mike

Markle said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 260252
> 
> 
> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is going to pay for it?  If the venture was profitable private industry would have already built one. Nothing the Government does is cost effective.
> 
> 
> 
> Not flushing a trillion a year in the war on terror we created
> would be a good start.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can only presume you are being facetious.  You simply cannot be serious.
Click to expand...

Dead serious. We obviously have two opposite perceptions of reality. Maybe you'll wake up some day.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

james bond said:


> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> China is a Communist country and doesn't give a shit about how much these things cost and how it affects the citizenry. Also workers are payed shit wages compared to the US.
> 
> All of the other counties that have bullet trains are small in land area compared to the US
> 
> 
> 
> Is _that _our excuse for falling so far behind them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is going to pay for it?  If the venture was profitable private industry would have already built one. Nothing the Government does is cost effective.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The US taxpayers will end up funding it.  No train system has ever made money, but that doesn't stop the libs.
> 
> Build the wall.  It will solved everything.
Click to expand...


You have it mostly wrong.  Freight makes money, oodles of money.  It's Passenger Trains that don't do too well.  And almost all of them are subsidized.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> china has a city that the smog killed thousands of people each month (guess that was before they noticed that their population was sinking).  They started out by replacing all the buses and trains with electrical ones.  Then they replaced the trucks with electric one.  They are in the process of getting rid of all the gas cars now and are almost done.  Even the Taxis are now electric.  Even with the primary power generation coming from Coal, the air is not the killer it once was.  You now see people without the face masks.  In may ways, we are ahead of china but in other ways, they are light years ahead of us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And guess what, that is from all of those coal fired powerplants they are building.
> 
> Now, what powers high speed rail?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Most of the power still comes from Coal Fired Power Plants.  But converting the electricity to automotive and transportation power ends up polluting less.  In a large city with so many cars, trucks and trains, using fossil fuels to power your car/truck/bus is a double whammy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the exact opposite.   The problem is China doesn't care about its people.   They are merely cogs.  Cogs get replaced.   China cares about cheap power so that's what they use.  They also don't care about toxic sludge so that's why they are leaders in solar module production that are incredibly toxic to make.
> 
> Powerplants are the largest source of pollution.   That is a fact.  We control the pollution,  they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's got to the point in china they are having to do something.  It affects their health care and even their factory production.   The US was well on it's way to turning the eastern and western seaboards into what china has now in their major cities.  They are left with no choice when it hit's the pocket books of the Uber chinese rich and government.  You really need to get out more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until the uber wealthy Chinese start dying, nothing will change.  I will be traveling through China in a few months.  Mainly hitting the hinterlands because I have already done all of the big cities.
Click to expand...


Take a good gas mask and plenty of canned oxygen for the large cities.


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> And guess what, that is from all of those coal fired powerplants they are building.
> 
> Now, what powers high speed rail?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the power still comes from Coal Fired Power Plants.  But converting the electricity to automotive and transportation power ends up polluting less.  In a large city with so many cars, trucks and trains, using fossil fuels to power your car/truck/bus is a double whammy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the exact opposite.   The problem is China doesn't care about its people.   They are merely cogs.  Cogs get replaced.   China cares about cheap power so that's what they use.  They also don't care about toxic sludge so that's why they are leaders in solar module production that are incredibly toxic to make.
> 
> Powerplants are the largest source of pollution.   That is a fact.  We control the pollution,  they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's got to the point in china they are having to do something.  It affects their health care and even their factory production.   The US was well on it's way to turning the eastern and western seaboards into what china has now in their major cities.  They are left with no choice when it hit's the pocket books of the Uber chinese rich and government.  You really need to get out more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until the uber wealthy Chinese start dying, nothing will change.  I will be traveling through China in a few months.  Mainly hitting the hinterlands because I have already done all of the big cities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take a good gas mask and plenty of canned oxygen for the large cities.
Click to expand...





Going to be in em for less than an hour


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the power still comes from Coal Fired Power Plants.  But converting the electricity to automotive and transportation power ends up polluting less.  In a large city with so many cars, trucks and trains, using fossil fuels to power your car/truck/bus is a double whammy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the exact opposite.   The problem is China doesn't care about its people.   They are merely cogs.  Cogs get replaced.   China cares about cheap power so that's what they use.  They also don't care about toxic sludge so that's why they are leaders in solar module production that are incredibly toxic to make.
> 
> Powerplants are the largest source of pollution.   That is a fact.  We control the pollution,  they don't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's got to the point in china they are having to do something.  It affects their health care and even their factory production.   The US was well on it's way to turning the eastern and western seaboards into what china has now in their major cities.  They are left with no choice when it hit's the pocket books of the Uber chinese rich and government.  You really need to get out more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until the uber wealthy Chinese start dying, nothing will change.  I will be traveling through China in a few months.  Mainly hitting the hinterlands because I have already done all of the big cities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take a good gas mask and plenty of canned oxygen for the large cities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going to be in em for less than an hour
Click to expand...


From my travels, that's about 59 minutes too long.


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's the exact opposite.   The problem is China doesn't care about its people.   They are merely cogs.  Cogs get replaced.   China cares about cheap power so that's what they use.  They also don't care about toxic sludge so that's why they are leaders in solar module production that are incredibly toxic to make.
> 
> Powerplants are the largest source of pollution.   That is a fact.  We control the pollution,  they don't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's got to the point in china they are having to do something.  It affects their health care and even their factory production.   The US was well on it's way to turning the eastern and western seaboards into what china has now in their major cities.  They are left with no choice when it hit's the pocket books of the Uber chinese rich and government.  You really need to get out more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until the uber wealthy Chinese start dying, nothing will change.  I will be traveling through China in a few months.  Mainly hitting the hinterlands because I have already done all of the big cities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take a good gas mask and plenty of canned oxygen for the large cities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going to be in em for less than an hour
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From my travels, that's about 59 minutes too long.
Click to expand...



Depends on the season.   Spring and fall are ok, winter and summer are murder.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's got to the point in china they are having to do something.  It affects their health care and even their factory production.   The US was well on it's way to turning the eastern and western seaboards into what china has now in their major cities.  They are left with no choice when it hit's the pocket books of the Uber chinese rich and government.  You really need to get out more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until the uber wealthy Chinese start dying, nothing will change.  I will be traveling through China in a few months.  Mainly hitting the hinterlands because I have already done all of the big cities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Take a good gas mask and plenty of canned oxygen for the large cities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going to be in em for less than an hour
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From my travels, that's about 59 minutes too long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the season.   Spring and fall are ok, winter and summer are murder.
Click to expand...


During the middle and early 70s, we used to fly into Fairbanks.  In the winter it would hit minus 60 and stay there.  Most of the heat was from coal for the homes.  Then add all those gas guzzlers spewing away.  When it gets that cold, a city has a strange thing happen.  The Air gets pushed down under pressure.  When you have smog, it condenses it to right near the ground.  Fairbanks had a siren that would go off when it got so bad it could choak small children.  When that happened, all cars came to a stop, you exited the vehicle and entered the nearest building.  When the pressure changed, the siren would go off for the all clear.  I don't know what it's called but it was strange that Fairbanks accepted it and didn't show any panic.  Feb in Fairbanks made us get our friggin cargo ramps down and back up as fast a possible.  I thought it was unfair that they didn't let us do a drive by cargo ground drop so we could get the hell out of that freezer as quickly a spossible.


----------



## sparky

We've a failing infastructure which we refuse to acknowledge 

~S~


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Until the uber wealthy Chinese start dying, nothing will change.  I will be traveling through China in a few months.  Mainly hitting the hinterlands because I have already done all of the big cities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take a good gas mask and plenty of canned oxygen for the large cities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going to be in em for less than an hour
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From my travels, that's about 59 minutes too long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the season.   Spring and fall are ok, winter and summer are murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> During the middle and early 70s, we used to fly into Fairbanks.  In the winter it would hit minus 60 and stay there.  Most of the heat was from coal for the homes.  Then add all those gas guzzlers spewing away.  When it gets that cold, a city has a strange thing happen.  The Air gets pushed down under pressure.  When you have smog, it condenses it to right near the ground.  Fairbanks had a siren that would go off when it got so bad it could choak small children.  When that happened, all cars came to a stop, you exited the vehicle and entered the nearest building.  When the pressure changed, the siren would go off for the all clear.  I don't know what it's called but it was strange that Fairbanks accepted it and didn't show any panic.  Feb in Fairbanks made us get our friggin cargo ramps down and back up as fast a possible.  I thought it was unfair that they didn't let us do a drive by cargo ground drop so we could get the hell out of that freezer as quickly a spossible.
Click to expand...




It's called a temperature inversion.  All cities, in bowls, get them


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Take a good gas mask and plenty of canned oxygen for the large cities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going to be in em for less than an hour
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From my travels, that's about 59 minutes too long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the season.   Spring and fall are ok, winter and summer are murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> During the middle and early 70s, we used to fly into Fairbanks.  In the winter it would hit minus 60 and stay there.  Most of the heat was from coal for the homes.  Then add all those gas guzzlers spewing away.  When it gets that cold, a city has a strange thing happen.  The Air gets pushed down under pressure.  When you have smog, it condenses it to right near the ground.  Fairbanks had a siren that would go off when it got so bad it could choak small children.  When that happened, all cars came to a stop, you exited the vehicle and entered the nearest building.  When the pressure changed, the siren would go off for the all clear.  I don't know what it's called but it was strange that Fairbanks accepted it and didn't show any panic.  Feb in Fairbanks made us get our friggin cargo ramps down and back up as fast a possible.  I thought it was unfair that they didn't let us do a drive by cargo ground drop so we could get the hell out of that freezer as quickly a spossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called a temperature inversion.  All cities, in bowls, get them
Click to expand...


LOL, just checking to see if you knew.  We get that here but not at minus 60 below zero.  Of course here, it lasts only a few days and the temp  drops down to minus zero and stays there.  But when the wind pops back up, the inversion bleeds off and things warm up.


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Going to be in em for less than an hour
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From my travels, that's about 59 minutes too long.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the season.   Spring and fall are ok, winter and summer are murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> During the middle and early 70s, we used to fly into Fairbanks.  In the winter it would hit minus 60 and stay there.  Most of the heat was from coal for the homes.  Then add all those gas guzzlers spewing away.  When it gets that cold, a city has a strange thing happen.  The Air gets pushed down under pressure.  When you have smog, it condenses it to right near the ground.  Fairbanks had a siren that would go off when it got so bad it could choak small children.  When that happened, all cars came to a stop, you exited the vehicle and entered the nearest building.  When the pressure changed, the siren would go off for the all clear.  I don't know what it's called but it was strange that Fairbanks accepted it and didn't show any panic.  Feb in Fairbanks made us get our friggin cargo ramps down and back up as fast a possible.  I thought it was unfair that they didn't let us do a drive by cargo ground drop so we could get the hell out of that freezer as quickly a spossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called a temperature inversion.  All cities, in bowls, get them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, just checking to see if you knew.  We get that here but not at minus 60 below zero.  Of course here, it lasts only a few days and the temp  drops down to minus zero and stays there.  But when the wind pops back up, the inversion bleeds off and things warm up.
Click to expand...




Dude, I am a geologist,  of course I knew!


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> From my travels, that's about 59 minutes too long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the season.   Spring and fall are ok, winter and summer are murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> During the middle and early 70s, we used to fly into Fairbanks.  In the winter it would hit minus 60 and stay there.  Most of the heat was from coal for the homes.  Then add all those gas guzzlers spewing away.  When it gets that cold, a city has a strange thing happen.  The Air gets pushed down under pressure.  When you have smog, it condenses it to right near the ground.  Fairbanks had a siren that would go off when it got so bad it could choak small children.  When that happened, all cars came to a stop, you exited the vehicle and entered the nearest building.  When the pressure changed, the siren would go off for the all clear.  I don't know what it's called but it was strange that Fairbanks accepted it and didn't show any panic.  Feb in Fairbanks made us get our friggin cargo ramps down and back up as fast a possible.  I thought it was unfair that they didn't let us do a drive by cargo ground drop so we could get the hell out of that freezer as quickly a spossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called a temperature inversion.  All cities, in bowls, get them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, just checking to see if you knew.  We get that here but not at minus 60 below zero.  Of course here, it lasts only a few days and the temp  drops down to minus zero and stays there.  But when the wind pops back up, the inversion bleeds off and things warm up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I am a geologist,  of course I knew!
Click to expand...


I just like to rag you once in awhile.  Looks like my job is finished here.  Now, there just has to be a sunset around here some place to ride off into.  Can I borrow a Jackass to ride off on?  I hear there are plenty in here.


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the season.   Spring and fall are ok, winter and summer are murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During the middle and early 70s, we used to fly into Fairbanks.  In the winter it would hit minus 60 and stay there.  Most of the heat was from coal for the homes.  Then add all those gas guzzlers spewing away.  When it gets that cold, a city has a strange thing happen.  The Air gets pushed down under pressure.  When you have smog, it condenses it to right near the ground.  Fairbanks had a siren that would go off when it got so bad it could choak small children.  When that happened, all cars came to a stop, you exited the vehicle and entered the nearest building.  When the pressure changed, the siren would go off for the all clear.  I don't know what it's called but it was strange that Fairbanks accepted it and didn't show any panic.  Feb in Fairbanks made us get our friggin cargo ramps down and back up as fast a possible.  I thought it was unfair that they didn't let us do a drive by cargo ground drop so we could get the hell out of that freezer as quickly a spossible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called a temperature inversion.  All cities, in bowls, get them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, just checking to see if you knew.  We get that here but not at minus 60 below zero.  Of course here, it lasts only a few days and the temp  drops down to minus zero and stays there.  But when the wind pops back up, the inversion bleeds off and things warm up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I am a geologist,  of course I knew!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just like to rag you once in awhile.  Looks like my job is finished here.  Now, there just has to be a sunset around here some place to ride off into.  Can I borrow a Jackass to ride off on?  I hear there are plenty in here.
Click to expand...




Indeed there are, feel free to nab one from the FZ


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> During the middle and early 70s, we used to fly into Fairbanks.  In the winter it would hit minus 60 and stay there.  Most of the heat was from coal for the homes.  Then add all those gas guzzlers spewing away.  When it gets that cold, a city has a strange thing happen.  The Air gets pushed down under pressure.  When you have smog, it condenses it to right near the ground.  Fairbanks had a siren that would go off when it got so bad it could choak small children.  When that happened, all cars came to a stop, you exited the vehicle and entered the nearest building.  When the pressure changed, the siren would go off for the all clear.  I don't know what it's called but it was strange that Fairbanks accepted it and didn't show any panic.  Feb in Fairbanks made us get our friggin cargo ramps down and back up as fast a possible.  I thought it was unfair that they didn't let us do a drive by cargo ground drop so we could get the hell out of that freezer as quickly a spossible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's called a temperature inversion.  All cities, in bowls, get them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL, just checking to see if you knew.  We get that here but not at minus 60 below zero.  Of course here, it lasts only a few days and the temp  drops down to minus zero and stays there.  But when the wind pops back up, the inversion bleeds off and things warm up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I am a geologist,  of course I knew!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just like to rag you once in awhile.  Looks like my job is finished here.  Now, there just has to be a sunset around here some place to ride off into.  Can I borrow a Jackass to ride off on?  I hear there are plenty in here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed there are, feel free to nab one from the FZ
Click to expand...


The problem is, I have most of the real jackasses on ignore.  You'll have to suggest one.


----------



## ThunderKiss1965

Angelo said:


> View attachment 260252
> 
> 
> ThunderKiss1965 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who is going to pay for it?  If the venture was profitable private industry would have already built one. Nothing the Government does is cost effective.
> 
> 
> 
> Not flushing a trillion a year in the war on terror we created
> would be a good start.
Click to expand...

We created ? Are you crazy is that what your problem is ?


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's called a temperature inversion.  All cities, in bowls, get them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, just checking to see if you knew.  We get that here but not at minus 60 below zero.  Of course here, it lasts only a few days and the temp  drops down to minus zero and stays there.  But when the wind pops back up, the inversion bleeds off and things warm up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I am a geologist,  of course I knew!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just like to rag you once in awhile.  Looks like my job is finished here.  Now, there just has to be a sunset around here some place to ride off into.  Can I borrow a Jackass to ride off on?  I hear there are plenty in here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed there are, feel free to nab one from the FZ
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is, I have most of the real jackasses on ignore.  You'll have to suggest one.
Click to expand...





Nope, sorry...I have a policy against interacting with jackasses


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, just checking to see if you knew.  We get that here but not at minus 60 below zero.  Of course here, it lasts only a few days and the temp  drops down to minus zero and stays there.  But when the wind pops back up, the inversion bleeds off and things warm up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I am a geologist,  of course I knew!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I just like to rag you once in awhile.  Looks like my job is finished here.  Now, there just has to be a sunset around here some place to ride off into.  Can I borrow a Jackass to ride off on?  I hear there are plenty in here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed there are, feel free to nab one from the FZ
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is, I have most of the real jackasses on ignore.  You'll have to suggest one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, sorry...I have a policy against interacting with jackasses
Click to expand...


It's easy.  Just throw the rope around their necks.  If it's a Democrat Jackass, tell them Biden sent you to retrieve them.   If it's a Republican jackass tie a scarf around their eyes and they'll automatically assume Trump sent you.


----------



## Wyatt earp

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.




tell us what happened to Californias ?


----------



## westwall

Daryl Hunt said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I am a geologist,  of course I knew!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just like to rag you once in awhile.  Looks like my job is finished here.  Now, there just has to be a sunset around here some place to ride off into.  Can I borrow a Jackass to ride off on?  I hear there are plenty in here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed there are, feel free to nab one from the FZ
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is, I have most of the real jackasses on ignore.  You'll have to suggest one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, sorry...I have a policy against interacting with jackasses
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's easy.  Just throw the rope around their necks.  If it's a Democrat Jackass, tell them Biden sent you to retrieve them.   If it's a Republican jackass tie a scarf around their eyes and they'll automatically assume Trump sent you.
Click to expand...




Nope, too much chance of infection. 

It's an inviolable policy!


----------



## Daryl Hunt

westwall said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just like to rag you once in awhile.  Looks like my job is finished here.  Now, there just has to be a sunset around here some place to ride off into.  Can I borrow a Jackass to ride off on?  I hear there are plenty in here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed there are, feel free to nab one from the FZ
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem is, I have most of the real jackasses on ignore.  You'll have to suggest one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, sorry...I have a policy against interacting with jackasses
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's easy.  Just throw the rope around their necks.  If it's a Democrat Jackass, tell them Biden sent you to retrieve them.   If it's a Republican jackass tie a scarf around their eyes and they'll automatically assume Trump sent you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, too much chance of infection.
> 
> It's an inviolable policy!
Click to expand...


So you say there isn't enough booze in creation to cure those jackasses.  I agree.


----------



## james bond

Daryl Hunt said:


> You have it mostly wrong. Freight makes money, oodles of money. It's Passenger Trains that don't do too well. And almost all of them are subsidized.



If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?


----------



## Daryl Hunt

james bond said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have it mostly wrong. Freight makes money, oodles of money. It's Passenger Trains that don't do too well. And almost all of them are subsidized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?
Click to expand...


Freight isn't in a big hurry to get anywhere.  Even produce only goes for a very short haul on a train.  Plus, the weight of the freight car loaded, you honestly want to try and build a track to run that puppy at 190mph?  As it is, freight trains go from very,very slow to over 100 mph around here.  They are actually faster than the Passenger Trains.  Of course, derailing a Freighter doesn't kill a few hundred people either. If you were to build a track to run freight at 190mph the cost would go out the window fast. This is why the HS Passenger Trains have their own disignated tracks.   Around here, Freight and Passenger trains use the same rails and you have to slow the Passenger train down.  Plus, the freight has the right of way.  You honestly believe that either B&N or SP would stop their money trains and wait for the money pit Amtrak?

I might propose we do a high speed riding you out on a rail but only after the Tar and Feathering is done.


----------



## james bond

Daryl Hunt said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have it mostly wrong. Freight makes money, oodles of money. It's Passenger Trains that don't do too well. And almost all of them are subsidized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Freight isn't in a big hurry to get anywhere.  Even produce only goes for a very short haul on a train.  Plus, the weight of the freight car loaded, you honestly want to try and build a track to run that puppy at 190mph?  As it is, freight trains go from very,very slow to over 100 mph around here.  They are actually faster than the Passenger Trains.  Of course, derailing a Freighter doesn't kill a few hundred people either. If you were to build a track to run freight at 190mph the cost would go out the window fast. This is why the HS Passenger Trains have their own disignated tracks.   Around here, Freight and Passenger trains use the same rails and you have to slow the Passenger train down.  Plus, the freight has the right of way.  You honestly believe that either B&N or SP would stop their money trains and wait for the money pit Amtrak?
> 
> I might propose we do a high speed riding you out on a rail but only after the Tar and Feathering is done.
Click to expand...


You just try it lowball.  I'll kick your stupid ass haha.

When we are discussing building high speed rail, it isn't for freight.  I wasn't talking about freight.  Yet you insult me trying to show how stupid you farking are.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

james bond said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have it mostly wrong. Freight makes money, oodles of money. It's Passenger Trains that don't do too well. And almost all of them are subsidized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Freight isn't in a big hurry to get anywhere.  Even produce only goes for a very short haul on a train.  Plus, the weight of the freight car loaded, you honestly want to try and build a track to run that puppy at 190mph?  As it is, freight trains go from very,very slow to over 100 mph around here.  They are actually faster than the Passenger Trains.  Of course, derailing a Freighter doesn't kill a few hundred people either. If you were to build a track to run freight at 190mph the cost would go out the window fast. This is why the HS Passenger Trains have their own disignated tracks.   Around here, Freight and Passenger trains use the same rails and you have to slow the Passenger train down.  Plus, the freight has the right of way.  You honestly believe that either B&N or SP would stop their money trains and wait for the money pit Amtrak?
> 
> I might propose we do a high speed riding you out on a rail but only after the Tar and Feathering is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just try it lowball.  I'll kick your stupid ass haha.
> 
> When we are discussing building high speed rail, it isn't for freight.  I wasn't talking about freight.  Yet you insult me trying to show how stupid you farking are.
Click to expand...


Oh, really,let's me refresh your memory.

_*If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?*_

Now,put this McClelland Saddle on and let's get going, mule.


----------



## james bond

Daryl Hunt said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have it mostly wrong. Freight makes money, oodles of money. It's Passenger Trains that don't do too well. And almost all of them are subsidized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Freight isn't in a big hurry to get anywhere.  Even produce only goes for a very short haul on a train.  Plus, the weight of the freight car loaded, you honestly want to try and build a track to run that puppy at 190mph?  As it is, freight trains go from very,very slow to over 100 mph around here.  They are actually faster than the Passenger Trains.  Of course, derailing a Freighter doesn't kill a few hundred people either. If you were to build a track to run freight at 190mph the cost would go out the window fast. This is why the HS Passenger Trains have their own disignated tracks.   Around here, Freight and Passenger trains use the same rails and you have to slow the Passenger train down.  Plus, the freight has the right of way.  You honestly believe that either B&N or SP would stop their money trains and wait for the money pit Amtrak?
> 
> I might propose we do a high speed riding you out on a rail but only after the Tar and Feathering is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just try it lowball.  I'll kick your stupid ass haha.
> 
> When we are discussing building high speed rail, it isn't for freight.  I wasn't talking about freight.  Yet you insult me trying to show how stupid you farking are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, really,let's me refresh your memory.
> 
> _*If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?*_
> 
> Now,put this McClelland Saddle on and let's get going, mule.
Click to expand...


I'll be the one putting my boots and spurs to your donkey arse. You said, "You have it mostly wrong."  

You're the one who brought up freight.  I agree it makes oodles of money, but building hella expensive high speed rail for it?  Please explain.  

Do you know why the libs want to build a high speed rail system?  It isn't for freight.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

james bond said:


> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryl Hunt said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have it mostly wrong. Freight makes money, oodles of money. It's Passenger Trains that don't do too well. And almost all of them are subsidized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Freight isn't in a big hurry to get anywhere.  Even produce only goes for a very short haul on a train.  Plus, the weight of the freight car loaded, you honestly want to try and build a track to run that puppy at 190mph?  As it is, freight trains go from very,very slow to over 100 mph around here.  They are actually faster than the Passenger Trains.  Of course, derailing a Freighter doesn't kill a few hundred people either. If you were to build a track to run freight at 190mph the cost would go out the window fast. This is why the HS Passenger Trains have their own disignated tracks.   Around here, Freight and Passenger trains use the same rails and you have to slow the Passenger train down.  Plus, the freight has the right of way.  You honestly believe that either B&N or SP would stop their money trains and wait for the money pit Amtrak?
> 
> I might propose we do a high speed riding you out on a rail but only after the Tar and Feathering is done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You just try it lowball.  I'll kick your stupid ass haha.
> 
> When we are discussing building high speed rail, it isn't for freight.  I wasn't talking about freight.  Yet you insult me trying to show how stupid you farking are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, really,let's me refresh your memory.
> 
> _*If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?*_
> 
> Now,put this McClelland Saddle on and let's get going, mule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll be the one putting my boots and spurs to your donkey arse. You said, "You have it mostly wrong."
> 
> You're the one who brought up freight.  I agree it makes oodles of money, but building hella expensive high speed rail for it?  Please explain.
> 
> Do you know why the libs want to build a high speed rail system?  It isn't for freight.
Click to expand...


Once again, let me post your own words.  You were the one that brought it up.  None of were talking about freight until some jackass posted this

_*If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?*
_
You can lie like a rug if you want, so keep breying.  I have better things to do than listen to your 2nd grade trolling.  Us Grownups are talking.


----------



## james bond

Daryl Hunt said:


> Once again, let me post your own words.  You were the one that brought it up.  None of were talking about freight until some jackass posted this
> 
> _*If you're so dang knowledgeable, why don't you propose high speed rail for freight haha?*
> _
> You can lie like a rug if you want, so keep breying.  I have better things to do than listen to your 2nd grade trolling.  Us Grownups are talking.



Then just admit you made a mistake in interpreting what I was talking about like a grown up.  I was referring to why libs want a high speed rail system.  Since you cannot answer my question why, it means that you are _ignorant_.  I wasn't wrong because I wasn't discussing freight nor proposing high speed rail for freight.  Who in their right mind would do that in the US?  What I said was high speed rail is a money loser and ends up being paid for by the taxpayers.  We got BART in the SF-Bay Area and those counties pay 9.75% sales tax.  Other counties pay less. 

It's not me who is lying by denying they do not know what they are talking about and threatening violence.


----------



## 22lcidw

Practically all rail with people are money losers. Local regional rail from suburbs to city from city to city and built a century ago can not even make a profit. In cities, bus line passengers pay more for their fares to keep the fares lower on the train/subway/elevated lines. And many of those bus fares come from poorer areas.


----------



## 52ndStreet

I heard it is because the Airline industry lobby is very afraid that if America develops a high speed rail network, the Airline industry will lose a lot of money. But I do agree with the post, it is past due time that the America develops a high speed national rail network. They is no reason why Japan , China and Europe should surpass us in this area.
Its a national disgrace.


----------



## 22lcidw

52ndStreet said:


> I heard it is because the Airline industry lobby is very afraid that if America develops a high speed rail network, the Airline industry will lose a lot of money. But I do agree with the post, it is past due time that the America develops a high speed national rail network. They is no reason why Japan , China and Europe should surpass us in this area.
> Its a national disgrace.


Where are you going to build the high speed rail lines? You ain't going to build them where Progs live in high numbers. That "eminent domain" must be used. Do you see it cutting straight through those areas?  The poor areas will hold them up for hundreds of billions of dollars if not trillions of dollars just by themselves. And the lawyers....oh the lawyers.


----------



## SandSquid

I lived in Japan a while and loved them.  Too much traffic to want a car, but their mass transit system was great.  Was able to go backpacking in the middle of nowhere and get there all by trains and buses.   Took a bullet train to Kyoto during a stand down and that was amazing.  Then a sleeper bus on the way back.  Chairs laid back into beds with curtains around you and drove through the night.  

Not sure the feasibility in the US, especially with the airplane and car lobby's, but I'd take it.


----------



## Daryl Hunt

SandSquid said:


> I lived in Japan a while and loved them.  Too much traffic to want a car, but their mass transit system was great.  Was able to go backpacking in the middle of nowhere and get there all by trains and buses.   Took a bullet train to Kyoto during a stand down and that was amazing.  Then a sleeper bus on the way back.  Chairs laid back into beds with curtains around you and drove through the night.
> 
> Not sure the feasibility in the US, especially with the airplane and car lobby's, but I'd take it.



I am planning a Train ride from here to Denver,spend a few days and then come back by train.  The cost one way is somewhere from 45 to 90 bucks (half of a plane ride).  It takes about 8 hours and goes through some of the most majestic parts of the Rockies you have ever seen.  Driving isn't nearly as entertaining and flying you miss way too much.  Flying, it still takes about 3.5 hours including boarding and deboarding versus the Car at about 4.5 hours.  I don't think the 8 hours sitting in an overstuffed seat with a Bar, dining car and viewing car is not worth the effort.  I'll just use Public Transportation in Denver (they have a good one) and rent a car when it doesn't go where I need to go or use a Taxi.  I would have to do that anyway if I were to fly.  


I used the train system in Germany from Bitburg to Frankfurt a few times and back.  Another mountain route.  Okay, not as majestic as the Denver trip but still very nice.  And they lacked the dining and booze.  You had to bring it with you.  But it was enjoyable and damned sure beat the bus.  Once I took the train from Frankfurt to Wiesbatten and back as well.  Europe has a really great train system.


----------



## the other mike

In the 60's and 70's we thought the 21st century would be like the Jetsons at least.


----------



## Uncensored2008

SandSquid said:


> I lived in Japan a while and loved them.  Too much traffic to want a car, but their mass transit system was great.  Was able to go backpacking in the middle of nowhere and get there all by trains and buses.   Took a bullet train to Kyoto during a stand down and that was amazing.  Then a sleeper bus on the way back.  Chairs laid back into beds with curtains around you and drove through the night.
> 
> Not sure the feasibility in the US, especially with the airplane and car lobby's, but I'd take it.



The left is California has done a swindle for decades to build a bullet train. The issue is even if they ever built it, which isn't the intent, embezzlement is the intent, but even if the build it I could go from Los Angeles to San Francisco in 4 hours, for only $400

Flying takes 40 minutes and is $69 on Southwest. 

Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.


----------



## the other mike

Uncensored2008 said:


> Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.


Really ?
Japan has had them since before the Internet even. Bad analogy.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Really ?
> Japan has had them since before the Internet even. Bad analogy.
Click to expand...





And with one exception they all lose money.


----------



## Turtlesoup

They aren't wrong........you are.    Most americans don't want to take a train.


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Really ?
> Japan has had them since before the Internet even. Bad analogy.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And with one exception they all lose money.
Click to expand...

How much did that winter freeze in Texas cost because of poor infrastucture ?
How many people were killed in ice storm crashes last winter ?
What's the cost of cleaning up a 70 car pileup ?


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


We don't need high speed rail.


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Really ?
> Japan has had them since before the Internet even. Bad analogy.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And with one exception they all lose money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much did that winter freeze in Texas cost because of poor infrastucture ?
> How many people were killed in ice storm crashes last winter ?
> What's the cost of cleaning up a 70 car pileup ?
Click to expand...

Why would places in Texas that had NEVER experienced a winter storm like that have the infrastructure to handle it? Should South Dakota have infrastructure designed with hurricanes in mind?


----------



## Unkotare

theHawk said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because we have superior freeways and Americans like being independent and free to drive their own cars.  Not to mention trains never take you to and from you beginning and end destination, you always need a second mode of transportation just to get to the train.
> 
> Europe has a so called good high speed train system, yet it still sucks and is insanely expensive.  Personally I’ve used the train a few times and in some specific cases is good to use, but usually it’s far faster and cheaper to just drive or fly to your destination.
> 
> 
> 
> The video explains how you're wrong
> but don't watch it. Just keep being wrong.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It’s all propaganda crap from globalists and statists that want the little people to conform and use public transportation.
> 
> If rail is so fucking good, then it would be all over the place in America.  At one time it was, then it was replaced with aircraft and highways, because that was even better.
> 
> Everyone always says that Germany’s rail system is one of the best.  I’ve lived here for many years now, and I can tell you it sucks ass.  You still need to drive to a train station, and in a big city pay an absurd amount for parking by the hour.  Or take a taxi which is expensive as fuck as well, because you know, you have to pay for their healthcare and paid vacations, and the country bans Uber.  Then there is the cost.  It’s far cheaper to just drive somewhere close than to pay for round trip tickets.  The time tables always suck, you have to wait for connections, and of course there are delays and redirects all the time.
> 
> If you are traveling far, especially to another country, it’s always far cheaper and faster to fly.
> 
> But hey, we all don’t know any better.  It’s a good thing we got people like you to tell us what’s best for us.
Click to expand...

The OP will soon be demanding high speed rail across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.


----------



## the other mike

Unkotare said:


> The OP will soon be demanding high speed rail across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.


And the US will be a third world shithole.

Luckily it won't affect me much.


----------



## percysunshine




----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP will soon be demanding high speed rail across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
> 
> 
> 
> And the US will be a third world shithole.
> 
> ....
Click to expand...

Unless we build rail across the oceans? Really?


----------



## Unkotare

percysunshine said:


> View attachment 506514


Well, that's what cow catchers are for!


----------



## the other mike

Unkotare said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP will soon be demanding high speed rail across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
> 
> 
> 
> And the US will be a third world shithole.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless we build rail across the oceans? Really?
Click to expand...

Karma.


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP will soon be demanding high speed rail across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.
> 
> 
> 
> And the US will be a third world shithole.
> 
> ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Unless we build rail across the oceans? Really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Karma.
Click to expand...

So you seriously want to build rail across the oceans? Seriously?


----------



## percysunshine

Every giant government project seems like a great idea until the sub-contracting process takes over.


----------



## the other mike

Unkotare said:


> So you seriously want to build rail across the oceans? Seriously?


Don't play word games - I never brought that up - you did.


----------



## the other mike

Tipsycatlover 


Tipsycatlover said:


> So?????


But we're so good at bombing people you mean ?
Oh yeah.
How could I forget that?


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you seriously want to build rail across the oceans? Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't play word games - I never brought that up - you did.
Click to expand...

Do you support the idea or not?


----------



## Unkotare

The OP seems to be mixing his fantasy of wasting billions upon billions for nothing with his general hatred of the United States.


----------



## the other mike

Unkotare said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you seriously want to build rail across the oceans? Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't play word games - I never brought that up - you did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you support the idea or not?
Click to expand...

In short stretches, underwater rail tunnels look feasible enough. 
The English chunnel to France is pretty cool, and there's talk of one across the Bering. But across a whole ocean ? No.


----------



## the other mike

Unkotare said:


> The OP seems to be mixing his fantasy of wasting billions upon billions for nothing with his general hatred of the United States.


I love this country. 
Don't put words in my mouth Dickhead.


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...But across a whole ocean ? No.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Why not?


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP seems to be mixing his fantasy of wasting billions upon billions for nothing with his general hatred of the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> I love this country.
> ...
Click to expand...

Your many, many comments here suggest otherwise.


----------



## the other mike

Unkotare said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Your many, many comments here suggest otherwise.
Click to expand...

And many members respectfully know you're an asshole.


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Your many, many comments here suggest otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And many members respectfully know you're an asshole.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. And you are an America hating emo-boy.


----------



## the other mike

What the fuck is wrong with assholes like 
Unkotare ?​


----------



## the other mike

Unkotare said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Your many, many comments here suggest otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And many members respectfully know you're an asshole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fair enough. And you are an America hating emo-boy.
Click to expand...

This is your last warning shit for brains.
Stop trolling.


----------



## Unkotare

The OP still hasn't said why he opposes high speed rail across the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Your many, many comments here suggest otherwise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And many members respectfully know you're an asshole.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fair enough. And you are an America hating emo-boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is your last warning shit for brains.
> Stop trolling.
Click to expand...

Try to stay on topic, if you can. Now, about those high speed rail lines across the oceans...?


----------



## the other mike




----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> View attachment 506521


Are you going to discuss the topic or not?


----------



## the other mike

I've lost patience for annoying snarky dweebs like wonkaborie..


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> I've lost patience for annoying snarky dweebs like Wonka boring.View attachment 506523


OP trolling his own thread. Why?


----------



## HenryBHough

If there were a market for fast trains there'd be fast trains.
There is no market for fast trains so there are no fast trains.
Of course some future Democrat regime may mandate that there be fast trains.
It would take an outright Communist regime to mandate that anyone use them.

Be patient.


----------



## Weatherman2020

All you need to know about the Train to Nowhere:




__





						Dianne Feinstein's husband wins near-billion dollar California 'high speed rail' contract
					

Update: questions have been raised as to whether or not Richard Blum still owns a substantial or any interest in Tutor Perini. A number of published accounts, in addition to those cited, claim he does. This report indicates he sold 3 million shares i...




					www.americanthinker.com
				











						Pelosi Subsidies Benefit Husband’s Investment in Dem Mega-Donor’s Company
					

CEO donated to Pelosi, bundled for Obama, as Dem leader boosted his real estate holdings




					freebeacon.com


----------



## the other mike

HenryBHough said:


> If there were a market for fast trains there'd be fast trains.
> There is no market for fast trains so there are no fast trains.
> Of course some future Democrat regime may mandate that there be fast trains.
> It would take an outright Communist regime to mandate that anyone use them.
> 
> Be patient.


Should I go into my $7 trillion  Iraq war analogy 
or do you see my point ?


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there were a market for fast trains there'd be fast trains.
> There is no market for fast trains so there are no fast trains.
> Of course some future Democrat regime may mandate that there be fast trains.
> It would take an outright Communist regime to mandate that anyone use them.
> 
> Be patient.
> 
> 
> 
> Should I go into my $7 trillion  Iraq war analogy
> or do you see my point ?
Click to expand...

Off topic yet again.


----------



## Flash

Who gives a shit if we have fast trains or not?  I know I don't.

If somebody can make a profit building them and operating them then more power to them.  We sure as hell don't need government subsidies.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Really ?
> Japan has had them since before the Internet even. Bad analogy.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And with one exception they all lose money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much did that winter freeze in Texas cost because of poor infrastucture ?
> How many people were killed in ice storm crashes last winter ?
> What's the cost of cleaning up a 70 car pileup ?
Click to expand...





Considerably less than building 10 miles of high speed rail line.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you seriously want to build rail across the oceans? Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't play word games - I never brought that up - you did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do you support the idea or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In short stretches, underwater rail tunnels look feasible enough.
> The English chunnel to France is pretty cool, and there's talk of one across the Bering. But across a whole ocean ? No.
Click to expand...





The same applies to ALL high speed rail projects.  In certain,  very rare places, they make a lot of sense.  But here in the USA there is only one place that used to qualify.

Thanks to government incompetence,  and outright fascist orders, even that one place no longer exists.


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Really ?
> Japan has had them since before the Internet even. Bad analogy.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And with one exception they all lose money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much did that winter freeze in Texas cost because of poor infrastucture ?
> How many people were killed in ice storm crashes last winter ?
> What's the cost of cleaning up a 70 car pileup ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considerably less than building 10 miles of high speed rail line.
Click to expand...

China has 40,000 miles at less then the cost of 2 aircraft carriers and any given 5 years of war in Iraq.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Really ?
> Japan has had them since before the Internet even. Bad analogy.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And with one exception they all lose money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much did that winter freeze in Texas cost because of poor infrastucture ?
> How many people were killed in ice storm crashes last winter ?
> What's the cost of cleaning up a 70 car pileup ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considerably less than building 10 miles of high speed rail line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China has 40,000 miles at less then the cost of 2 aircraft carriers and any given 5 years of war in Iraq.
Click to expand...





And they used slave labor to build it, at unknown number of lives lost, and very little of that rail is useful for high speed.

Look up just how difficult it is to rate rail for high speed usage.


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SandSquid said:
> 
> 
> 
> zxzz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really ?
> Japan has had them since before the Internet even. Bad analogy.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And with one exception they all lose money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much did that winter freeze in Texas cost because of poor infrastucture ?
> How many people were killed in ice storm crashes last winter ?
> What's the cost of cleaning up a 70 car pileup ?
Click to expand...


All of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Really ?
> Japan has had them since before the Internet even. Bad analogy.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And with one exception they all lose money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much did that winter freeze in Texas cost because of poor infrastucture ?
> How many people were killed in ice storm crashes last winter ?
> What's the cost of cleaning up a 70 car pileup ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Considerably less than building 10 miles of high speed rail line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China has 40,000 miles at less then the cost of 2 aircraft carriers and any given 5 years of war in Iraq.
Click to expand...


----------



## percysunshine

Elon Musk can fix this. He can do anything.





__





						Loading…
					





					www.cnn.com


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP seems to be mixing his fantasy of wasting billions upon billions for nothing with his general hatred of the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> I love this country.
> Don't put words in my mouth Dickhead.
Click to expand...


You cannot love this country and advocate for wasting hundreds of billions of dollars on a system that would need hundreds of billions of dollars to run the system.


----------



## the other mike

Markle said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP seems to be mixing his fantasy of wasting billions upon billions for nothing with his general hatred of the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> I love this country.
> Don't put words in my mouth Dickhead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot love this country and advocate for wasting hundreds of billions of dollars on a system that would need hundreds of billions of dollars to run the system.
Click to expand...

^^Another nut putting words in my mouth.
Pretty tough to have a normal discussion around here.


----------



## the other mike

American exceptionalism. 
$28.4 trillion and counting......
not counting the $20 trillion shift in wealth from the bottom 70% to the top 1% in just 40 years. A remarkable feat I must say. You Reagan boys did your homework no doubt.


----------



## the other mike




----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there were a market for fast trains there'd be fast trains.
> There is no market for fast trains so there are no fast trains.
> Of course some future Democrat regime may mandate that there be fast trains.
> It would take an outright Communist regime to mandate that anyone use them.
> 
> Be patient.
> 
> 
> 
> Should I go into my $7 trillion  Iraq war analogy
> or do you see my point ?
Click to expand...


Do you always compare apples and avocados?  Why?


----------



## james bond

Markle said:


> ll of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.


It's coming to Abu Dhabi/Dubai and China first.  California later.


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> American exceptionalism.
> $28.4 trillion and counting......
> not counting the $20 trillion shift in wealth from the bottom 70% to the top 1% in just 40 years. A remarkable feat I must say. You Reagan boys did your homework no doubt.


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uncensored2008 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trains are dial up modems in the era of fiber internet.
> 
> 
> 
> Really ?
> Japan has had them since before the Internet even. Bad analogy.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And with one exception they all lose money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How much did that winter freeze in Texas cost because of poor infrastucture ?
> How many people were killed in ice storm crashes last winter ?
> What's the cost of cleaning up a 70 car pileup ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considerably less than building 10 miles of high speed rail line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> China has 40,000 miles at less then the cost of 2 aircraft carriers and any given 5 years of war in Iraq.
Click to expand...

China does not have the kind of very complete interstate highway system, and people are limited in their movement around and between different parts of the country. Easier to keep track of train tickets than individual automobiles.


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP seems to be mixing his fantasy of wasting billions upon billions for nothing with his general hatred of the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> I love this country.
> Don't put words in my mouth Dickhead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot love this country and advocate for wasting hundreds of billions of dollars on a system that would need hundreds of billions of dollars to run the system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^^Another nut putting words in my mouth.
> Pretty tough to have a normal discussion around here.
Click to expand...

When everyone else is the problem..........


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP seems to be mixing his fantasy of wasting billions upon billions for nothing with his general hatred of the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> I love this country.
> Don't put words in my mouth Dickhead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot love this country and advocate for wasting hundreds of billions of dollars on a system that would need hundreds of billions of dollars to run the system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^^Another nut putting words in my mouth.
> Pretty tough to have a normal discussion around here.
Click to expand...


Specifically, what words did I put in your mouth?

There is one corridor in the United States where a high-speed rail can be profitable.  That would be the NE corridor which has 41 MILLION people.  No other proposed high-speed railway has anything even in the ballpark with that number.  Without that number of potential riders, they make no sense whatsoever.


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


>


----------



## Unkotare

Markle said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is one corridor in the United States where a high-speed rail can be profitable.  That would be the NE corridor .....
Click to expand...

Which loses millions every year, and would never be mistaken for the shinkansen, the KTX, or TGV by any means.


----------



## the other mike

https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter
		

I love my country, but the collective ignorance of the American people empowers so-called public servants who abuse their positions of trust to push policies that further individual agendas at the expense of the nation they ostensibly serve. Fact-based logic no longer matters.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> American exceptionalism.
> $28.4 trillion and counting......
> not counting the $20 trillion shift in wealth from the bottom 70% to the top 1% in just 40 years. A remarkable feat I must say. You Reagan boys did your homework no doubt.







In 1932, according to a communist Party newspaper I own, 2% of the population controlled 76% of the nation's wealth.  The next year, the Domcrat Party took over both houses of Congress, and didn't lose control for 40 continuous years.  At the end of that 40 year run, 1% controlled 90%.

So who were the Dems working for?


----------



## surada

james bond said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ll of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.
> 
> 
> 
> It's coming to Abu Dhabi/Dubai and China first.  California later.
Click to expand...


Saudi Arabia's bullet trains have been completed for several years. now.


----------



## westwall

surada said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ll of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.
> 
> 
> 
> It's coming to Abu Dhabi/Dubai and China first.  California later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia's bullet trains have been completed for several years. now.
Click to expand...






So what.  They don't make enough money to support themselves.


----------



## Markle

surada said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ll of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.
> 
> 
> 
> It's coming to Abu Dhabi/Dubai and China first.  California later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia's bullet trains have been completed for several years. now.
Click to expand...


----------



## Mushroom

Markle said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The OP seems to be mixing his fantasy of wasting billions upon billions for nothing with his general hatred of the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> I love this country.
> Don't put words in my mouth Dickhead.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You cannot love this country and advocate for wasting hundreds of billions of dollars on a system that would need hundreds of billions of dollars to run the system.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^^Another nut putting words in my mouth.
> Pretty tough to have a normal discussion around here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Specifically, what words did I put in your mouth?
> 
> There is one corridor in the United States where a high-speed rail can be profitable.  That would be the NE corridor which has 41 MILLION people.  No other proposed high-speed railway has anything even in the ballpark with that number.  Without that number of potential riders, they make no sense whatsoever.
Click to expand...


There are a few, but that number is shrinking every year.

One of the original proposals 40 years ago was for one to run from LA to Las Vegas.  That one was actually far along in the planning, with construction due to start at almost any time.  But ultimately, it was cancelled because some screamed it would kill turtles.  And in the decades since, the explosion of Indian Casinos in California has made the plan outdated anyways.  Nowhere near as many go to Vegas anymore from LA, as there are casinos all over California, and the explosion in Prim.

I still remember when that town was literally a gas station, a small motel, and a casino not much bigger than a convenience store.

There was also a plan for one to run from San Diego to LA, but that was also scrapped as the cost of land became excessive.  What in 1980 involved mostly buying up farmland by 2010 would have become buying up housing developments so it was cancelled.

But the only other one that could have (and almost was) made was the upgrading of the Capitol Corridor.  A 170 mile route from Sacramento to San Francisco, that one was actually about to start construction.  At the time of COVID, the route was expected to pass over 2 million riders a year, so that stretch would have been an anchor to build the rest of a bullet train system off of.

But the Governor cancelled the project, as he had his own idea for a bullet train in California.  And it involved going from LA to San Francisco, not from Sacramento.  That is why they have sunk over $100 billion into a train that will never be completed, and they have not even figured out how to get it to LA.

The US is simply a poor choice for any kind of National High Speed rail.  The cities are too far apart, to dense, and to large.  Add in we already have a great Interstate Highway system and the large percentage that own cars, it is simply not needed.  Myself, I would love to see them used for an upgrade to some of the commuter rail systems in the country.  But out of the 4 most used ones in the country, only a single one could really use such a train.

The Boston-NY-DC-Philly region is simply so congested that clearing the required right of way would be impossible.  In Los Angeles they could eliminate some of that for some lines, but then you have the entire issue of topography.  Most of those trains do not even hit their top speed as it is, because of terrain.  The only one with the extant right of way and demand is the Sac-SF line, but the state will not let them do it because they want the Bullet Train to Nowhere instead.

I could see some possibilities, but I think LA-LV is dead.  Seattle-Spokane is possible, but I do not thing there is enough demand for such a service.

And the biggest problem that threads like this miss is just the area.  All of Japan is around 145k square miles.  That is smaller than just the state of California.  And pretty much every other country listed is a fraction of the size of the US.  And the others, when examined are generally totalitarian states, where private vehicle ownership is restricted, and the government regulates all transit inside the country.

When you have no choice but to use the government for travel and only with permission, giving them bullet trains is a bit like bread and circuses.


----------



## Mushroom

surada said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ll of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.
> 
> 
> 
> It's coming to Abu Dhabi/Dubai and China first.  California later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia's bullet trains have been completed for several years. now.
Click to expand...

Train.  Singular.  And it is not even designed for locals to use.

The Haramain high-speed railway connects the King Abdulaziz International Airport to King Abdullah Economic City, then onwards to Medina and Mecca.

It was not made for use by the citizens, but by the tend of millions that arrive each year on pilgrimages.  In essence, think of it as a more impressive theme park ride, like the Disneyland Monorail.  It does not even connect to the Mecca Metro system, it is entirely built for tourists.


----------



## surada

Mushroom said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ll of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.
> 
> 
> 
> It's coming to Abu Dhabi/Dubai and China first.  California later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia's bullet trains have been completed for several years. now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Train.  Singular.  And it is not even designed for locals to use.
> 
> The Haramain high-speed railway connects the King Abdulaziz International Airport to King Abdullah Economic City, then onwards to Medina and Mecca.
> 
> It was not made for use by the citizens, but by the tend of millions that arrive each year on pilgrimages.  In essence, think of it as a more impressive theme park ride, like the Disneyland Monorail.  It does not even connect to the Mecca Metro system, it is entirely built for tourists.
Click to expand...



Right... phase one.

Haramain high-speed railway - Wikipedia




__





						Haramain high-speed railway - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




The Haramain high-speed railway (Haramain referring to Mecca and Medina Islamic holy cities), also known as the Western railway or Mecca–Medina high-speed railway, is a 453-kilometre-long (281 mi) high-speed rail line in Saudi Arabia. It links the Muslim holy cities of Medina and Mecca via King Abdullah Economic City, using 449.2 kilometres (279.1 mi) of main line and a 3.75-kilometre (2.33 mi) br…


----------



## Markle

surada said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ll of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.
> 
> 
> 
> It's coming to Abu Dhabi/Dubai and China first.  California later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia's bullet trains have been completed for several years. now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Train.  Singular.  And it is not even designed for locals to use.
> 
> The Haramain high-speed railway connects the King Abdulaziz International Airport to King Abdullah Economic City, then onwards to Medina and Mecca.
> 
> It was not made for use by the citizens, but by the tend of millions that arrive each year on pilgrimages.  In essence, think of it as a more impressive theme park ride, like the Disneyland Monorail.  It does not even connect to the Mecca Metro system, it is entirely built for tourists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Right... phase one.
> 
> Haramain high-speed railway - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haramain high-speed railway - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Haramain high-speed railway (Haramain referring to Mecca and Medina Islamic holy cities), also known as the Western railway or Mecca–Medina high-speed railway, is a 453-kilometre-long (281 mi) high-speed rail line in Saudi Arabia. It links the Muslim holy cities of Medina and Mecca via King Abdullah Economic City, using 449.2 kilometres (279.1 mi) of main line and a 3.75-kilometre (2.33 mi) br…
Click to expand...


----------



## Uncensored2008

Angelo said:


> And the US will be a third world shithole.
> 
> Luckily it won't affect me much.



Well yeah, without 18th century technology, how can we hope to keep up?

Use with only supersonic jets and no choo-choos....


----------



## Uncensored2008

Angelo said:


> But we're so good at bombing people you mean ?
> Oh yeah.
> How could I forget that?



How can we bomb people without advanced technology like choo-choos to drop the bombs?


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter
> 
> 
> I love my country, but the collective ignorance of the American people empowers so-called public servants who abuse their positions of trust to push policies that further individual agendas at the expense of the nation they ostensibly serve. Fact-based logic no longer matters.


Smoke you pot kid


----------



## Unkotare




----------



## the other mike

Several fossil fuel trolls here.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> Several fossil fuel trolls here.






Instead of calling people trolls, try educating yourself.  High speed trains work in very selective regions.  Just having one to say you have it is just stupid.

The train they are talking about for California is an outright fraud.  It goes from nowhere, to nowhere.  And, it isn't even fast.


----------



## james bond

surada said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ll of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.
> 
> 
> 
> It's coming to Abu Dhabi/Dubai and China first.  California later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia's bullet trains have been completed for several years. now.
Click to expand...

Bullet trains are old technology for Californians.  We are waiting for the the hyperloop -- Hyperloop Transportation Technologies | HyperloopTT.


----------



## AZrailwhale

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Several fossil fuel trolls here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Instead of calling people trolls, try educating yourself.  High speed trains work in very selective regions.  Just having one to say you have it is just stupid.
> 
> The train they are talking about for California is an outright fraud.  It goes from nowhere, to nowhere.  And, it isn't even fast.
Click to expand...

Everyone that knows anything abut rail knew the California High Speed Rail could not meet the promised performance.  Given the topography of the route it would have to exceed 450 mph on the flat sections of the route AND tunnel under mountains that have active fault lines running through them.  Instead of just being realistic, the corrupt fools running things kept changing the system in violation of the proposition to where even if it is completed as now designed, it will be slower than the 1940's Southern Pacific Coast Daylight powered by a steam engine.  It's always been a boondoggle and always will be.


----------



## westwall

surada said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ll of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.
> 
> 
> 
> It's coming to Abu Dhabi/Dubai and China first.  California later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia's bullet trains have been completed for several years. now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Train.  Singular.  And it is not even designed for locals to use.
> 
> The Haramain high-speed railway connects the King Abdulaziz International Airport to King Abdullah Economic City, then onwards to Medina and Mecca.
> 
> It was not made for use by the citizens, but by the tend of millions that arrive each year on pilgrimages.  In essence, think of it as a more impressive theme park ride, like the Disneyland Monorail.  It does not even connect to the Mecca Metro system, it is entirely built for tourists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Right... phase one.
> 
> Haramain high-speed railway - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haramain high-speed railway - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Haramain high-speed railway (Haramain referring to Mecca and Medina Islamic holy cities), also known as the Western railway or Mecca–Medina high-speed railway, is a 453-kilometre-long (281 mi) high-speed rail line in Saudi Arabia. It links the Muslim holy cities of Medina and Mecca via King Abdullah Economic City, using 449.2 kilometres (279.1 mi) of main line and a 3.75-kilometre (2.33 mi) br…
Click to expand...





You claimed they were already built.

Stop lying.


----------



## the other mike

We'll have high speed rail when China builds it for us.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> We'll have high speed rail when China builds it for us.





Once again, why build something that isn't needed?


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We'll have high speed rail when China builds it for us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, why build something that isn't needed?
Click to expand...

They'll wait until after we've bankrupted ourselves at war with Russia and the ME and hyperinflation makes gasoline unaffordable.

You gonna drive from Atlanta to Dallas 
when gas is $15 a gallon or take the train and save $200 ?


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We'll have high speed rail when China builds it for us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, why build something that isn't needed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They'll wait until after we've bankrupted ourselves at war with Russia and the ME and hyperinflation makes gasoline unaffordable.
Click to expand...




You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.


We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
Click to expand...

Seriously? THAT is your justification?


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
Click to expand...





Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?


----------



## Unkotare

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
Click to expand...

A classic case of "I wanna, I wanna, I wanna!" liberal reasoning.


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
Click to expand...

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?


----------



## the other mike

Overlooking all the negative comments from the obvious fossil fuel advocates, back in the real world ;


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> waste trillions of dollars,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

btw
We are $28.5 trillion in debt with NOTHING special to show for it. In fact we barely make the top 20 'happy countries' list.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> waste trillions of dollars,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> btw
> We are $28.5 trillion in debt with NOTHING special to show for it. In fact we barely make the top 20 'happy countries' list.
Click to expand...





The happy countries lists are propaganda.  Take a look at those happy countries and see how many people are trying to move to those places,  rather than here.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
Click to expand...





Yes, it would.   Good gosh, dude.  Cali has already spent billions and has zero to show for it.

It's a FRAUD!


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> The happy countries lists are propaganda.  Take a look at those happy countries and see how many people are trying to move to those places,  rather than here.


Probably so.
The happiest are the rich who live in more than one country, like Canada in the summer, Jamaica in the winter ...a spare home in Aspen for whenever.


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?



Until the Covid pandemic, airlines were doing quite well.


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The happy countries lists are propaganda.  Take a look at those happy countries and see how many people are trying to move to those places,  rather than here.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably so.
> The happiest are the rich who live in more than one country, like Canada in the summer, Jamaica in the winter ...a spare home in Aspen for whenever.
Click to expand...

There are no happy people in Canada


----------



## westwall

Dusty said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The happy countries lists are propaganda.  Take a look at those happy countries and see how many people are trying to move to those places,  rather than here.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably so.
> The happiest are the rich who live in more than one country, like Canada in the summer, Jamaica in the winter ...a spare home in Aspen for whenever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no happy people in Canada
Click to expand...





Not true, the fascists running the place are quite happy.


----------



## Dusty

westwall said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The happy countries lists are propaganda.  Take a look at those happy countries and see how many people are trying to move to those places,  rather than here.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably so.
> The happiest are the rich who live in more than one country, like Canada in the summer, Jamaica in the winter ...a spare home in Aspen for whenever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no happy people in Canada
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true, the fascists running the place are quite happy.
Click to expand...

They may think that they are happy waiting a year to see a doctor when they are sick, but they actually have no clue what life should be


----------



## the other mike

Dusty said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The happy countries lists are propaganda.  Take a look at those happy countries and see how many people are trying to move to those places,  rather than here.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably so.
> The happiest are the rich who live in more than one country, like Canada in the summer, Jamaica in the winter ...a spare home in Aspen for whenever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no happy people in Canada
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true, the fascists running the place are quite happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They may think that they are happy waiting a year to see a doctor when they are sick, but they actually have no clue what life should be
Click to expand...

They just legalized cannabis for one thing. It means the people get to decide the laws, not the corporations. ( at least not as bad as here)


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The happy countries lists are propaganda.  Take a look at those happy countries and see how many people are trying to move to those places,  rather than here.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably so.
> The happiest are the rich who live in more than one country, like Canada in the summer, Jamaica in the winter ...a spare home in Aspen for whenever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no happy people in Canada
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true, the fascists running the place are quite happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They may think that they are happy waiting a year to see a doctor when they are sick, but they actually have no clue what life should be
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They just legalized cannabis for one thing. It means the people get to decide the laws, not the corporations. ( at least not as bad as here)
Click to expand...

It takes a year to see a doctor in Canada, meaning that people die waiting.

Really

And this is what retards like you want here


----------



## the other mike

Wow. We beat Czech Republic.


----------



## the other mike

Dusty said:


> And this is what retards like you want here


Haven't changed your snotty attitude have you Frannie ?
Too bad.


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is what retards like you want here
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't changed your snotty attitude have you Frannie ?
> Too bad.
Click to expand...

It takes a year to see a doctor in Canada, meaning that people die waiting.

Really

And this is what retards like you want here









						One in 5 Canadians can't find a doctor: survey
					

Canadians continue to suffer from a doctor shortage, according to a new report that found 1 in 5 people have not been able to find a physician to treat them regularly.



					www.ctvnews.ca
				












						Why Are Hospital Wait Times in Canada So Long? | Qminder
					

Despite the high overall quality of healthcare, Canada ranks below average for hospital wait times. Why is this a problem and how can we solve it?




					www.qminder.com


----------



## westwall

Dusty said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The happy countries lists are propaganda.  Take a look at those happy countries and see how many people are trying to move to those places,  rather than here.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably so.
> The happiest are the rich who live in more than one country, like Canada in the summer, Jamaica in the winter ...a spare home in Aspen for whenever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There are no happy people in Canada
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not true, the fascists running the place are quite happy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They may think that they are happy waiting a year to see a doctor when they are sick, but they actually have no clue what life should be
Click to expand...




The fascist elite don't wait.  They come here to the USA for their medical treatment.


----------



## james bond

westwall said:


> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surada said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> james bond said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> ll of those combined don't close to that which has been wasted on just the failed California high-speed rail to date much less completing the boondoggle.
> 
> 
> 
> It's coming to Abu Dhabi/Dubai and China first.  California later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia's bullet trains have been completed for several years. now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Train.  Singular.  And it is not even designed for locals to use.
> 
> The Haramain high-speed railway connects the King Abdulaziz International Airport to King Abdullah Economic City, then onwards to Medina and Mecca.
> 
> It was not made for use by the citizens, but by the tend of millions that arrive each year on pilgrimages.  In essence, think of it as a more impressive theme park ride, like the Disneyland Monorail.  It does not even connect to the Mecca Metro system, it is entirely built for tourists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Right... phase one.
> 
> Haramain high-speed railway - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haramain high-speed railway - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Haramain high-speed railway (Haramain referring to Mecca and Medina Islamic holy cities), also known as the Western railway or Mecca–Medina high-speed railway, is a 453-kilometre-long (281 mi) high-speed rail line in Saudi Arabia. It links the Muslim holy cities of Medina and Mecca via King Abdullah Economic City, using 449.2 kilometres (279.1 mi) of main line and a 3.75-kilometre (2.33 mi) br…
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You claimed they were already built.
> 
> Stop lying.
Click to expand...

Lol surada.  He's basically an opinionated lying POS.


----------



## Mushroom

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
Click to expand...


Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
*Total Current Cost: *$52-million
*Travel Speed:* 155 mph
*Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
*Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
*Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.









						How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
					

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...




					vegasexperience.com
				




155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.


----------



## Dusty

Mushroom said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
Click to expand...

No one will be able to travel that 400 mile stretch daily and the project will be one of the biggest waste of money ever


----------



## the other mike

Mushroom said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
Click to expand...

California was the worst place to attempt it.
The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.

Atlanta to Miami would be packed every day.

Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.


----------



## westwall

Mushroom said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
Click to expand...






buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it.
> The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.
> 
> Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
Click to expand...






Why?  There isn't enough traffic to support that.  The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line.  No other place in the USA can support it.  And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable.  Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.


----------



## Mushroom

Angelo Actually, California is one of the best in many ways.

Still lots of open land between the cities.  And a major corridor to build it along.  But there are also topological features to take into consideration, and they actually started building it without considering how they will overcome them.  Kind of like trying to build the Brooklyn Bridge, and only as they were half way through realizing there is a large difference in elevation between the two sides.  Or half way through building the Golden Gate Bridge suddenly going "Gee, there is a huge fort on the South side, how are we going to get past that?"

True, California is doing it all wrong, but the challenges of even a 400 mile bullet train are nothing compared to that of the mythical Hyperloop.  Might as well try and say the transit solution of the future is going to be flying unicorns, that once at the station can poop flavored ice cream.


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it.
> The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.
> 
> Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  There isn't enough traffic to support that.  The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line.  No other place in the USA can support it.  And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable.  Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.
Click to expand...

True. Chicago to NYC too.
Keeping in mind, these ideas should have been implemented decades ago, when it was more feasible--many routes could have been constructed alongside new Interstates, etc....Japan's had them since the 90's.


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it.
> The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.
> 
> Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  There isn't enough traffic to support that.  The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line.  No other place in the USA can support it.  And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable.  Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True. Chicago to NYC too.
> Keeping in mind, these ideas should have been implemented decades ago, when it was more feasible--many routes could have been constructed alongside new Interstates, etc....Japan's had them since the 90's.
Click to expand...







Nope, there isn't enough traffic to warrant a Chicago NYC route either.  It is extremely expensive to run high speed trains.  There are TWO, worldwide, that can pay for themselves.  TWO.  If you can't pay for yourself, then you shouldn't be built.


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it.
> The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.
> 
> Atlanta to Miami would be packed every day.
> 
> Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
Click to expand...

No express train from DC to Boston would be possible because people would want to get off along the way and these people would not travel making the line dumb


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it.
> The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.
> 
> Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  There isn't enough traffic to support that.  The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line.  No other place in the USA can support it.  And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable.  Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True. Chicago to NYC too.
> Keeping in mind, these ideas should have been implemented decades ago, when it was more feasible--many routes could have been constructed alongside new Interstates, etc....Japan's had them since the 90's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, there isn't enough traffic to warrant a Chicago NYC route either.  It is extremely expensive to run high speed trains.  There are TWO, worldwide, that can pay for themselves.  TWO.  If you can't pay for yourself, then you shouldn't be built.
Click to expand...

There are 241 flights to and from Chicago and NY daily.
You want to guess the I-80 traffic daily not counting 18-wheelers ?


----------



## the other mike

Dusty said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it.
> The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.
> 
> Atlanta to Miami would be packed every day.
> 
> Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No express train from DC to Boston would be possible because people would want to get off along the way and these people would not travel making the line dumb
Click to expand...

People hate airports.


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it.
> The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.
> 
> Atlanta to Miami would be packed every day.
> 
> Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No express train from DC to Boston would be possible because people would want to get off along the way and these people would not travel making the line dumb
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People hate airports.
Click to expand...

But airports can go to another airport without a trillion dollar rail lines that are actually logistically and financially impossible.


----------



## Mushroom

westwall said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
Click to expand...


Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".  






And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?


----------



## Dusty

Mushroom said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
Click to expand...

Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead


----------



## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
Click to expand...

You do love your false equivalencies.


----------



## Mushroom

Dusty said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
Click to expand...


What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?  

I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.

Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!

The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.

You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.


----------



## Flash

I don't give a shit if we have fast trains or not.

I would much rather see the government work on bringing down inflation, reducing the cost of energy, sealing the border and lowering taxes than I care about building a fucking fast train.

If somebody thinks they can make a profit building and operating one then fine.  Go for it Sport.  However, we sure as hell don't need the filthy ass government giving them my tax money to do it.


----------



## Blues Man

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it.
> The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.
> 
> Atlanta to Miami would be packed every day.
> 
> Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No express train from DC to Boston would be possible because people would want to get off along the way and these people would not travel making the line dumb
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People hate airports.
Click to expand...

People hate trains more


----------



## the other mike

Blues Man said:


> People hate trains more


Where ?


----------



## Dusty

Mushroom said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
Click to expand...

There is no high speed rail in the USA because the concept can not work in the USA.  It works on long distances between European countries that are dumb enough to waste money on a failed system.  As for bullet trains perhaps you ought to educate yourself. And use less than 3 million words per post as this demonstrates that you can not articulate properly.  So please say more with less


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> People hate trains more
> 
> 
> 
> Where ?
> View attachment 507391
Click to expand...


LOL that would cost 5 to 10 billion dollars per mile to build, not including the toy train


----------



## Concerned American

HereWeGoAgain said:


> theHawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s because we have superior freeways and Americans like being independent and free to drive their own cars.  Not to mention trains never take you to and from you beginning and end destination, you always need a second mode of transportation just to get to the train.
> 
> Europe has a so called good high speed train system, yet it still sucks and is insanely expensive.  Personally I’ve used the train a few times and in some specific cases is good to use, but usually it’s far faster and cheaper to just drive or fly to your destination.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not to mention stops along the way to pick up passengers.
> At least with a plane nonstops are available.
Click to expand...

The concept of a non-stop train has been around for awhile.  I guess the Chinese are working on this.


----------



## Dusty

Mushroom said:


> Angelo Actually, California is one of the best in many ways.
> 
> Still lots of open land between the cities.  And a major corridor to build it along.  But there are also topological features to take into consideration, and they actually started building it without considering how they will overcome them.  Kind of like trying to build the Brooklyn Bridge, and only as they were half way through realizing there is a large difference in elevation between the two sides.  Or half way through building the Golden Gate Bridge suddenly going "Gee, there is a huge fort on the South side, how are we going to get past that?"
> 
> True, California is doing it all wrong, but the challenges of even a 400 mile bullet train are nothing compared to that of the mythical Hyperloop.  Might as well try and say the transit solution of the future is going to be flying unicorns, that once at the station can poop flavored ice cream.


Shut up mushroom, no one is building your fantasy island train


----------



## the other mike

Dusty said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> People hate trains more
> 
> 
> 
> Where ?
> View attachment 507391
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL that would cost 5 to 10 billion dollars per mile to build, not including the toy train
Click to expand...

You think this is a photoshop ??
Look at the people down there dumbass. 
The cost of a day in Iraq per mile.


----------



## the other mike

Keep on funnin, meatheads.
America is almost a third world country.


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> People hate trains more
> 
> 
> 
> Where ?
> View attachment 507391
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL that would cost 5 to 10 billion dollars per mile to build, not including the toy train
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think this is a photoshop ??
> Look at the people down there dumbass.
> The cost of a day in Iraq per mile.
Click to expand...

LOL. Come back and post here when it happens


----------



## Markle

Angelo said:


> Wow. We beat Czech Republic.
> View attachment 507076


----------



## the other mike

Dusty said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> People hate trains more
> 
> 
> 
> Where ?
> View attachment 507391
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL that would cost 5 to 10 billion dollars per mile to build, not including the toy train
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You think this is a photoshop ??
> Look at the people down there dumbass.
> The cost of a day in Iraq per mile.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL. Come back and post here when it happens
Click to expand...


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Angelo 
  Do you know how rare those people are?
I know of one person who has multiple homes in different countries...wait,make that two.
     One of my cousins has homes in Canada and one in Barbados.
And the other my Wifes ex boss who has homes in Texas and Mexico.


----------



## AZrailwhale

Mushroom said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
Click to expand...

The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable.  The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it.  Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there.  But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.  The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains.  The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley.  A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco.  The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Dusty 

  Those who are wealthy in canada come to the US for treatment when they have a serious illness.
    Some frieds from canada stayed with us in Houston so the husband could be treated at MD Anderson cancer center which leads the world in cancer treatment.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Angelo 
  Keep the populous stoned and compliant.
They're way easier to control.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

Angelo 

    Why would you need high speed rail from dallas to san antonio when Houston is a far larger money maker?


----------



## initforme

Some want to go back to horse and buggy.


----------



## HereWeGoAgain

initforme 

   You mean democrats surely.


----------



## 22lcidw

AZrailwhale said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable.  The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it.  Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there.  But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.  The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains.  The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley.  A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco.  The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.
Click to expand...

Seems a bit like a jigsaw puzzle.


----------



## Mushroom

AZrailwhale said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable.  The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it.  Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there.  But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.
Click to expand...


Not at all.  It drops the passengers off at Pershing Square (Oakland), where they use the existing subway system to finish the travel.  Or some just hop on the cross-bay ferry if they are working near the Ferry Terminal.

Kind of like the NY line.

And much of that travel is also the reverse, people living in SF but working in Sacramento, especially lobbyists and lawyers.


----------



## Mushroom

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it.
> The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.
> 
> Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?  There isn't enough traffic to support that.  The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line.  No other place in the USA can support it.  And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable.  Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True. Chicago to NYC too.
> Keeping in mind, these ideas should have been implemented decades ago, when it was more feasible--many routes could have been constructed alongside new Interstates, etc....Japan's had them since the 90's.
Click to expand...


And once again, you go completely off the rails and just make garbage up.

Japan has had them since the 1960's.

You all really need to learn how to do research, and not just make crap up all the time.


----------



## Mushroom

Dusty said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it.
> The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.
> 
> Atlanta to Miami would be packed every day.
> 
> Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No express train from DC to Boston would be possible because people would want to get off along the way and these people would not travel making the line dumb
Click to expand...


Yes, not possible.

Gee, to bad for you that the Acela Express is over 20 years old, which shows you are either lying, or failing to do any research at all.

GO ahead, look it up.  Acela Express.









						Acela - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Mushroom

AZrailwhale said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable.  The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it.  Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there.  But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.  The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains.  The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley.  A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco.  The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.
Click to expand...


Actually, I have been following the way they have wanted to do Metrorail for decades.

And they never intended HSR on each line, only on the ones that made the most sense for density.  Lines like Simi Valley to LA, Riverside to LA, and the like.  The AV was never intended to be a true "bullet train", because the top speed without huge changes is only around 75.  But that 75 would still be a 50% improvement over the current 50.

The same with the decades old concept of LA to Vegas.  Not many would have used it for commuting (other than entertainers), but the tourist traffic could have made it work in the 1980's.  At that time, none of the mega resorts had been built yet, and most of their business actually came from the LA area.  Of course, at that time the Indian Reservations at most had bingo parlors and that was it.  And a few "Poker Clubs" in LA.

Now however, there are Indian Casinos all over the state, and some poker clubs rival those of Vegas 40 years ago.  And with the mega resorts, more and more travel goes there from long distance tourists, not the more local ones.  I remember driving to Vegas in the mid-1980's, and it was a nightmare.  It is actually less of a problem now, as more fly there than drive now.  With the mega resorts, it has become more "kid friendly", so many families pick going there instead of Disneyland.

But there are local lines all over LA that could use an improvement.  But those are lines already seeing 1 million plus riders a year, and they only intended on concentrating on those lines.  But as lines came up for their 20 year or so replacements, upgrade them to high speed rail so they could just add the trains later if needed.

The original plan for the state system was to do just that, HSR to Sacramento, then the Capitol Corridor HSR to San Francisco.  But the Governor did not like that, he wanted LA-SF only.  Even those of us that like the idea think this is retarded, and will never work.  There is just not enough of a demand through the Central Valley for this, nor for a route from SF to LA.

Yes, Acela goes from Boston to Washington, but relatively few actually take it from end to end.  Most take much shorter segments, like Boston-NY, NY-Philly, or the like.  And once you get outside of LA, there is really nothing anybody wants to see until SF.

Hey honey, let's go take the new bullet train!  I always wanted to see Bakersfield!  We can even catch a show at the Buck Owens Cristal Palace!  Or we can go to Fresno, and take the bus to Oakhurst and see the Talking Bear!

At least if they had tried to do it up the Coastal Route, there would have been things that people would have actually wanted to go to.  San Louis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Moro Bay, Pismo Beach, Hearst Castle, things that people would have actually taken it for for tourism if nothing else.  The Central Valley is literally the "Fly-Over Area" of the state.  We only go through it because we have to if we want to go somewhere else.  There is nothing there of interest.

Then you have the other issue, the weather.  Many may not know this, but the Central Valley can often get hurricane force winds.  And every decade or so they get killer dust storms.  I have a feeling that many times that route will be down because of that.  If anything, it should have been built closer to the mountains to mitigate that issue.  But this is not a real system, it is a huge vanity project.


----------



## Blues Man

Angelo said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> People hate trains more
> 
> 
> 
> Where ?
> View attachment 507391
Click to expand...

Everywhere in the US


----------



## the other mike

Mushroom said:


> And once again, you go completely off the rails and just make garbage up.
> 
> Japan has had them since the 1960's.
> 
> You all really need to learn how to do research, and not just make crap up all the time.


Hey.
I thought it was the 90's 
asshole. Excuuuuuse me.








						Shinkansen - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Dusty

Mushroom said:


> AZrailwhale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable.  The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it.  Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there.  But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not at all.  It drops the passengers off at Pershing Square (Oakland), where they use the existing subway system to finish the travel.  Or some just hop on the cross-bay ferry if they are working near the Ferry Terminal.
> 
> Kind of like the NY line.
> 
> And much of that travel is also the reverse, people living in SF but working in Sacramento, especially lobbyists and lawyers.
Click to expand...

It is not a bullet train or hyperloop though, is it shroom?

You are very confused


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And once again, you go completely off the rails and just make garbage up.
> 
> Japan has had them since the 1960's.
> 
> You all really need to learn how to do research, and not just make crap up all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey.
> I thought it was the 90's
> asshole. Excuuuuuse me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shinkansen - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

Again the USA does not have bullet trains because the tracks cost billions per mile and the gates would have to come down on crossings 5 to 10 miles before the train crossed the road at 300 mph and when there was an accident the body would come to rest 50 miles up the track


Can't happen here, but you invest it all now, ride the train to the poor house


----------



## Dusty

Mushroom said:


> AZrailwhale said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
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> westwall said:
> 
> 
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> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
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> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable.  The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it.  Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there.  But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.  The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains.  The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley.  A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco.  The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I have been following the way they have wanted to do Metrorail for decades.
> 
> And they never intended HSR on each line, only on the ones that made the most sense for density.  Lines like Simi Valley to LA, Riverside to LA, and the like.  The AV was never intended to be a true "bullet train", because the top speed without huge changes is only around 75.  But that 75 would still be a 50% improvement over the current 50.
> 
> The same with the decades old concept of LA to Vegas.  Not many would have used it for commuting (other than entertainers), but the tourist traffic could have made it work in the 1980's.  At that time, none of the mega resorts had been built yet, and most of their business actually came from the LA area.  Of course, at that time the Indian Reservations at most had bingo parlors and that was it.  And a few "Poker Clubs" in LA.
> 
> Now however, there are Indian Casinos all over the state, and some poker clubs rival those of Vegas 40 years ago.  And with the mega resorts, more and more travel goes there from long distance tourists, not the more local ones.  I remember driving to Vegas in the mid-1980's, and it was a nightmare.  It is actually less of a problem now, as more fly there than drive now.  With the mega resorts, it has become more "kid friendly", so many families pick going there instead of Disneyland.
> 
> But there are local lines all over LA that could use an improvement.  But those are lines already seeing 1 million plus riders a year, and they only intended on concentrating on those lines.  But as lines came up for their 20 year or so replacements, upgrade them to high speed rail so they could just add the trains later if needed.
> 
> The original plan for the state system was to do just that, HSR to Sacramento, then the Capitol Corridor HSR to San Francisco.  But the Governor did not like that, he wanted LA-SF only.  Even those of us that like the idea think this is retarded, and will never work.  There is just not enough of a demand through the Central Valley for this, nor for a route from SF to LA.
> 
> Yes, Acela goes from Boston to Washington, but relatively few actually take it from end to end.  Most take much shorter segments, like Boston-NY, NY-Philly, or the like.  And once you get outside of LA, there is really nothing anybody wants to see until SF.
> 
> Hey honey, let's go take the new bullet train!  I always wanted to see Bakersfield!  We can even catch a show at the Buck Owens Cristal Palace!  Or we can go to Fresno, and take the bus to Oakhurst and see the Talking Bear!
> 
> At least if they had tried to do it up the Coastal Route, there would have been things that people would have actually wanted to go to.  San Louis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Moro Bay, Pismo Beach, Hearst Castle, things that people would have actually taken it for for tourism if nothing else.  The Central Valley is literally the "Fly-Over Area" of the state.  We only go through it because we have to if we want to go somewhere else.  There is nothing there of interest.
> 
> Then you have the other issue, the weather.  Many may not know this, but the Central Valley can often get hurricane force winds.  And every decade or so they get killer dust storms.  I have a feeling that many times that route will be down because of that.  If anything, it should have been built closer to the mountains to mitigate that issue.  But this is not a real system, it is a huge vanity project.
Click to expand...

Has it ever occurred to you that you are following bullet trains that do not exist for decades and that you are likely an obsessive compulsive train fanatic that does not care if a track cost a trillion dollars to build so that a few hundred can ride?  You might want to lie back on a couch and explain this to Siggy


----------



## the other mike

Dusty said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed. The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it will. Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco. That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades. This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget. The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles! Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time. This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*. It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it. The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego. Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why? There isn't enough traffic to support that. The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line. No other place in the USA can support it. And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable. Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True. Chicago to NYC too. Keeping in mind, these ideas should have been implemented decades ago, when it was more feasible--many routes could have been constructed alongside new Interstates, etc....Japan's had them since the 90's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And once again, you go completely off the rails and just make garbage up. Japan has had them since the 1960's. You all really need to learn how to do research, and not just make crap up all the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Japanese eat live squid too, knock yourself out, they also club baby dolphins to death because they eat the squid. Got that slant eyes
Click to expand...


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed. The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it will. Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco. That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades. This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles! Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time. This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*. It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> California was the worst place to attempt it. The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego. Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why? There isn't enough traffic to support that. The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line. No other place in the USA can support it. And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable. Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True. Chicago to NYC too. Keeping in mind, these ideas should have been implemented decades ago, when it was more feasible--many routes could have been constructed alongside new Interstates, etc....Japan's had them since the 90's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And once again, you go completely off the rails and just make garbage up. Japan has had them since the 1960's. You all really need to learn how to do research, and not just make crap up all the time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Japanese eat live squid too, knock yourself out, they also club baby dolphins to death because they eat the squid. Got that slant eyes
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Another bright comment


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## the other mike

Frannie is trolling himself now ....lol.


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## the other mike




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## the other mike

Dusty said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese eat live squid too, knock yourself out, they also club baby dolphins to death because they eat the squid. Got that slant eyes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another bright comment
Click to expand...

You're quoting yourself dumbass.


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## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Japanese eat live squid too, knock yourself out, they also club baby dolphins to death because they eat the squid. Got that slant eyes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another bright comment
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're quoting yourself dumbass.
Click to expand...

Exactly, all my comments are bright.

130


----------



## Mushroom

Dusty said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AZrailwhale said:
> 
> 
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> Mushroom said:
> 
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> Dusty said:
> 
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> Mushroom said:
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> westwall said:
> 
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> Mushroom said:
> 
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> Angelo said:
> 
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> westwall said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable.  The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it.  Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there.  But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.  The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains.  The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley.  A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco.  The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I have been following the way they have wanted to do Metrorail for decades.
> 
> And they never intended HSR on each line, only on the ones that made the most sense for density.  Lines like Simi Valley to LA, Riverside to LA, and the like.  The AV was never intended to be a true "bullet train", because the top speed without huge changes is only around 75.  But that 75 would still be a 50% improvement over the current 50.
> 
> The same with the decades old concept of LA to Vegas.  Not many would have used it for commuting (other than entertainers), but the tourist traffic could have made it work in the 1980's.  At that time, none of the mega resorts had been built yet, and most of their business actually came from the LA area.  Of course, at that time the Indian Reservations at most had bingo parlors and that was it.  And a few "Poker Clubs" in LA.
> 
> Now however, there are Indian Casinos all over the state, and some poker clubs rival those of Vegas 40 years ago.  And with the mega resorts, more and more travel goes there from long distance tourists, not the more local ones.  I remember driving to Vegas in the mid-1980's, and it was a nightmare.  It is actually less of a problem now, as more fly there than drive now.  With the mega resorts, it has become more "kid friendly", so many families pick going there instead of Disneyland.
> 
> But there are local lines all over LA that could use an improvement.  But those are lines already seeing 1 million plus riders a year, and they only intended on concentrating on those lines.  But as lines came up for their 20 year or so replacements, upgrade them to high speed rail so they could just add the trains later if needed.
> 
> The original plan for the state system was to do just that, HSR to Sacramento, then the Capitol Corridor HSR to San Francisco.  But the Governor did not like that, he wanted LA-SF only.  Even those of us that like the idea think this is retarded, and will never work.  There is just not enough of a demand through the Central Valley for this, nor for a route from SF to LA.
> 
> Yes, Acela goes from Boston to Washington, but relatively few actually take it from end to end.  Most take much shorter segments, like Boston-NY, NY-Philly, or the like.  And once you get outside of LA, there is really nothing anybody wants to see until SF.
> 
> Hey honey, let's go take the new bullet train!  I always wanted to see Bakersfield!  We can even catch a show at the Buck Owens Cristal Palace!  Or we can go to Fresno, and take the bus to Oakhurst and see the Talking Bear!
> 
> At least if they had tried to do it up the Coastal Route, there would have been things that people would have actually wanted to go to.  San Louis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Moro Bay, Pismo Beach, Hearst Castle, things that people would have actually taken it for for tourism if nothing else.  The Central Valley is literally the "Fly-Over Area" of the state.  We only go through it because we have to if we want to go somewhere else.  There is nothing there of interest.
> 
> Then you have the other issue, the weather.  Many may not know this, but the Central Valley can often get hurricane force winds.  And every decade or so they get killer dust storms.  I have a feeling that many times that route will be down because of that.  If anything, it should have been built closer to the mountains to mitigate that issue.  But this is not a real system, it is a huge vanity project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has it ever occurred to you that you are following bullet trains that do not exist for decades and that you are likely an obsessive compulsive train fanatic that does not care if a track cost a trillion dollars to build so that a few hundred can ride?  You might want to lie back on a couch and explain this to Siggy
Click to expand...


I see.

So the Acela Express never existed, and all of the 3 million plus that take it every year are what, government stooges?  Under some form of mind control?

This is why I do not take you seriously at all.  But please, feel free to start a thread in the Conspiracy Theory section and explain to us all how over 3 million people a year are fooled into believing they take a train that you insist never existed.


----------



## Markle

This is a bit long but it makes clear why high-speed rail is bad for Florida as well as the rest of the country.X Z CVz









						24 Why
					

24 Why < Why Florida Should Not Build




					www.yumpu.com


----------



## Hellbilly

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


We have this tho.








						Boom - Supersonic Passenger Airplanes
					

Boom Supersonic is building a faster future. Our supersonic airliner will make the world dramatically more accessible.




					boomsupersonic.com
				






I gave them permission to use my name.


----------



## the other mike

I thought we would look like this by 2021.


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## Hellbilly

Angelo I predict we will have those in the year 2112. (See what I did there)


----------



## the other mike

Billyboom said:


> Angelo I predict we will have those in the year 2112. (See what I did there)


Speaking of Rush ,Alex has a new album out doesn't  he ?


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## Mushroom

Billyboom said:


> Angelo I predict we will have those in the year 2112. (See what I did there)



Why not In the Year 2525?


----------



## Mushroom

Markle said:


> This is a bit long but it makes clear why high-speed rail is bad for Florida as well as the rest of the country.X Z CVz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 24 Why
> 
> 
> 24 Why < Why Florida Should Not Build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yumpu.com



I can see there is a huge misunderstanding of most people over what "High Speed Rail" actually is.  And this is causing a lot of problems in actual communication.

In basic, conventional passenger trains are capped in the US at 59 mph.  And freight trains at 49 in most areas.  "High Speed Rail" is literally anything that travels at faster speeds.  It may be at 65 mph, 75 mph, 90 mph, or higher.

The average speed of the Acela Express is 85 mph.  It is HSR, because of the tracks, trains, and other factors (closed track system with no other traffic along any part of the route where they travel over 59 mph) makes it so.  And many places are wanting to upgrade to HSR, as it lets them do other things as well.  Replace older rail lines with newer ones.  Dump the expensive hybrid diesel locomotives and move to all-electric ones.  And the 20-50% increase in speed allows them to service more passengers without having to increase the number of trains or their size.

In fact, other than the silly system they are trying to build in California, I am not aware of any systems planning on building a true "Bullet Train" in the US.  Only HSR, at speeds between 60 and 100 MPH.  Not the 130 MPH plus of other countries.  And in most cases, commuter rail can be rather cheaply converted to HSR.  Primarily, the engines upgraded to newer ones, smoother tracks, and the route closed off to all other traffic so they operate independent of freight lines.

California has been making commuter rail lines for 30 years that are almost all capable of conversion to HSR with minimal expense.  For example, most of the newer lines are isolated on their own independent rail system, with no connection to anything but commuter trains.  Quite often in segments built specifically for them between freeways, so they can cheaply use existing right of ways without having to purchase additional land.  Another I am aware of like this with this as a future consideration is the Concord-Oakland line, that mostly runs in between the East and West lanes of State Route 4.  And many lines in LA are the same way.  No need at the time of construction to become HSR, but minimal expense if they do so in the future.


----------



## Markle

Mushroom said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit long but it makes clear why high-speed rail is bad for Florida as well as the rest of the country.X Z CVz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 24 Why
> 
> 
> 24 Why < Why Florida Should Not Build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yumpu.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see there is a huge misunderstanding of most people over what "High Speed Rail" actually is.  And this is causing a lot of problems in actual communication.
> 
> In basic, conventional passenger trains are capped in the US at 59 mph.  And freight trains at 49 in most areas.  "High Speed Rail" is literally anything that travels at faster speeds.  It may be at 65 mph, 75 mph, 90 mph, or higher.
> 
> The average speed of the Acela Express is 85 mph.  It is HSR, because of the tracks, trains, and other factors (closed track system with no other traffic along any part of the route where they travel over 59 mph) makes it so.  And many places are wanting to upgrade to HSR, as it lets them do other things as well.  Replace older rail lines with newer ones.  Dump the expensive hybrid diesel locomotives and move to all-electric ones.  And the 20-50% increase in speed allows them to service more passengers without having to increase the number of trains or their size.
> 
> In fact, other than the silly system they are trying to build in California, I am not aware of any systems planning on building a true "Bullet Train" in the US.  Only HSR, at speeds between 60 and 100 MPH.  Not the 130 MPH plus of other countries.  And in most cases, commuter rail can be rather cheaply converted to HSR.  Primarily, the engines upgraded to newer ones, smoother tracks, and the route closed off to all other traffic so they operate independent of freight lines.
> 
> *California has been making commuter rail lines for 30 years that are almost all capable of conversion to HSR with minimal expense.*  For example, most of the newer lines are isolated on their own independent rail system, with no connection to anything but commuter trains.  Quite often in segments built specifically for them between freeways, so they can cheaply use existing right of ways without having to purchase additional land.  Another I am aware of like this with this as a future consideration is the Concord-Oakland line, that mostly runs in between the East and West lanes of State Route 4.  And many lines in LA are the same way.  No need at the time of construction to become HSR, but minimal expense if they do so in the future.
Click to expand...



Obviously, you skipped reading anything in my source, which I fully expected.

To say that it would be of minimal expense to convert commuter rail lines, in use in California is foolish and totally untrue.  High-speed rails are extremely expensive and cannot go where a commuter rail had been laid.  In metro areas, the rails must be elevated for safety in addition to the rails and bed for the rails has to be far superior in construction.

###
Acquisition[edit]​In January 2015, the California High Speed Rail Authority issued a request for proposal (RFP) for complete trainsets. The proposals received will be reviewed so that acceptable bidders can be selected, and then requests for bids will be sent out.

[...]

In February 2015, ten companies formally expressed interest in producing trainsets for the system: Alstom, AnsaldoBreda (now Hitachi Rail Italy), Bombardier Transportation, CSR, Hyundai Rotem, Kawasaki Rail Car, Siemens, Sun Group U.S.A. partnered with CNR Tangshan, and Talgo. CSR merged with CNR in June 2015, bringing the number of companies down to eight.[49] Bombardier Transportation completed its merge with Alstom by January 2021, bringing the number of companies down to 7.[50]

Specifications[edit]​In addition to many other requirements:[51]

each trainset will have a sustained continuous speed of 220 mph (350 km/h);
a maximum testing speed of 242 mph (389 km/h);
a lifespan of at least 30 years;
a length no longer than about 680 feet (210 m);









						California High-Speed Rail - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Dusty

Markle said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit long but it makes clear why high-speed rail is bad for Florida as well as the rest of the country.X Z CVz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 24 Why
> 
> 
> 24 Why < Why Florida Should Not Build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yumpu.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see there is a huge misunderstanding of most people over what "High Speed Rail" actually is.  And this is causing a lot of problems in actual communication.
> 
> In basic, conventional passenger trains are capped in the US at 59 mph.  And freight trains at 49 in most areas.  "High Speed Rail" is literally anything that travels at faster speeds.  It may be at 65 mph, 75 mph, 90 mph, or higher.
> 
> The average speed of the Acela Express is 85 mph.  It is HSR, because of the tracks, trains, and other factors (closed track system with no other traffic along any part of the route where they travel over 59 mph) makes it so.  And many places are wanting to upgrade to HSR, as it lets them do other things as well.  Replace older rail lines with newer ones.  Dump the expensive hybrid diesel locomotives and move to all-electric ones.  And the 20-50% increase in speed allows them to service more passengers without having to increase the number of trains or their size.
> 
> In fact, other than the silly system they are trying to build in California, I am not aware of any systems planning on building a true "Bullet Train" in the US.  Only HSR, at speeds between 60 and 100 MPH.  Not the 130 MPH plus of other countries.  And in most cases, commuter rail can be rather cheaply converted to HSR.  Primarily, the engines upgraded to newer ones, smoother tracks, and the route closed off to all other traffic so they operate independent of freight lines.
> 
> *California has been making commuter rail lines for 30 years that are almost all capable of conversion to HSR with minimal expense.*  For example, most of the newer lines are isolated on their own independent rail system, with no connection to anything but commuter trains.  Quite often in segments built specifically for them between freeways, so they can cheaply use existing right of ways without having to purchase additional land.  Another I am aware of like this with this as a future consideration is the Concord-Oakland line, that mostly runs in between the East and West lanes of State Route 4.  And many lines in LA are the same way.  No need at the time of construction to become HSR, but minimal expense if they do so in the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, you skipped reading anything in my source, which I fully expected.
> 
> To say that it would be of minimal expense to convert commuter rail lines, in use in California is foolish and totally untrue.  High-speed rails are extremely expensive and cannot go where a commuter rail had been laid.  In metro areas, the rails must be elevated for safety in addition to the rails and bed for the rails has to be far superior in construction.
> 
> ###
> Acquisition[edit]​In January 2015, the California High Speed Rail Authority issued a request for proposal (RFP) for complete trainsets. The proposals received will be reviewed so that acceptable bidders can be selected, and then requests for bids will be sent out.
> 
> [...]
> 
> In February 2015, ten companies formally expressed interest in producing trainsets for the system: Alstom, AnsaldoBreda (now Hitachi Rail Italy), Bombardier Transportation, CSR, Hyundai Rotem, Kawasaki Rail Car, Siemens, Sun Group U.S.A. partnered with CNR Tangshan, and Talgo. CSR merged with CNR in June 2015, bringing the number of companies down to eight.[49] Bombardier Transportation completed its merge with Alstom by January 2021, bringing the number of companies down to 7.[50]
> 
> Specifications[edit]​In addition to many other requirements:[51]
> 
> each trainset will have a sustained continuous speed of 220 mph (350 km/h);
> a maximum testing speed of 242 mph (389 km/h);
> a lifespan of at least 30 years;
> a length no longer than about 680 feet (210 m);
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California High-Speed Rail - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

220mph trains are not even possible in most areas because the curves must be wider requiring buildings to be moved.  Mushroom eats too many magic mushrooms and is obsessive disoriented with high speed trains.


----------



## Markle

Mushroom said:


> I can see there is a huge misunderstanding of most people over what "High Speed Rail" actually is. And this is causing a lot of problems in actual communication.
> 
> _*In basic, conventional passenger trains are capped in the US at 59 mph. And freight trains at 49 in most areas. "High Speed Rail" is literally anything that travels at faster speeds. It may be at 65 mph, 75 mph, 90 mph, or higher.*_



Oops.

What is High-Speed Rail?​Better Tracks, Better Trains, and a Big-Picture Plan

*There is no fixed definition of high speed rail. It can be loosely defined as trains operating at speeds of at least 125 mph, with the fastest modern trains reaching speeds of about 220 mph. HSR is also defined by dedicated tracks and separated grade crossings, which dramatically reduce delays. *And HSR is almost always part of a network of conventional and commuter trains, as well as transit systems. When all of these pieces are tightly coordinated and working in harmony, HSR creates a paradigm shift in travel options.


----------



## Dusty

Mushroom said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit long but it makes clear why high-speed rail is bad for Florida as well as the rest of the country.X Z CVz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 24 Why
> 
> 
> 24 Why < Why Florida Should Not Build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yumpu.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see there is a huge misunderstanding of most people over what "High Speed Rail" actually is.  And this is causing a lot of problems in actual communication.
> 
> In basic, conventional passenger trains are capped in the US at 59 mph.  And freight trains at 49 in most areas.  "High Speed Rail" is literally anything that travels at faster speeds.  It may be at 65 mph, 75 mph, 90 mph, or higher.
> 
> The average speed of the Acela Express is 85 mph.  It is HSR, because of the tracks, trains, and other factors (closed track system with no other traffic along any part of the route where they travel over 59 mph) makes it so.  And many places are wanting to upgrade to HSR, as it lets them do other things as well.  Replace older rail lines with newer ones.  Dump the expensive hybrid diesel locomotives and move to all-electric ones.  And the 20-50% increase in speed allows them to service more passengers without having to increase the number of trains or their size.
> 
> In fact, other than the silly system they are trying to build in California, I am not aware of any systems planning on building a true "Bullet Train" in the US.  Only HSR, at speeds between 60 and 100 MPH.  Not the 130 MPH plus of other countries.  And in most cases, commuter rail can be rather cheaply converted to HSR.  Primarily, the engines upgraded to newer ones, smoother tracks, and the route closed off to all other traffic so they operate independent of freight lines.
> 
> California has been making commuter rail lines for 30 years that are almost all capable of conversion to HSR with minimal expense.  For example, most of the newer lines are isolated on their own independent rail system, with no connection to anything but commuter trains.  Quite often in segments built specifically for them between freeways, so they can cheaply use existing right of ways without having to purchase additional land.  Another I am aware of like this with this as a future consideration is the Concord-Oakland line, that mostly runs in between the East and West lanes of State Route 4.  And many lines in LA are the same way.  No need at the time of construction to become HSR, but minimal expense if they do so in the future.
Click to expand...

You are cookoo


----------



## Dusty

Markle said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can see there is a huge misunderstanding of most people over what "High Speed Rail" actually is. And this is causing a lot of problems in actual communication.
> 
> _*In basic, conventional passenger trains are capped in the US at 59 mph. And freight trains at 49 in most areas. "High Speed Rail" is literally anything that travels at faster speeds. It may be at 65 mph, 75 mph, 90 mph, or higher.*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oops.
> 
> What is High-Speed Rail?​Better Tracks, Better Trains, and a Big-Picture Plan
> 
> *There is no fixed definition of high speed rail. It can be loosely defined as trains operating at speeds of at least 125 mph, with the fastest modern trains reaching speeds of about 220 mph. HSR is also defined by dedicated tracks and separated grade crossings, which dramatically reduce delays. *And HSR is almost always part of a network of conventional and commuter trains, as well as transit systems. When all of these pieces are tightly coordinated and working in harmony, HSR creates a paradigm shift in travel options.
Click to expand...

I think musk hyperloop is 700mph which gets mushrooms tits hard.  Not real of course, never going to be built, but it still tweaks shrooms tits


----------



## Dusty

Mushroom said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
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> Mushroom said:
> 
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> AZrailwhale said:
> 
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> Mushroom said:
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> Dusty said:
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> westwall said:
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> Mushroom said:
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> Angelo said:
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> westwall said:
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> Angelo said:
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> westwall said:
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> 
> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
> 
> 
> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable.  The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it.  Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there.  But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.  The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains.  The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley.  A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco.  The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I have been following the way they have wanted to do Metrorail for decades.
> 
> And they never intended HSR on each line, only on the ones that made the most sense for density.  Lines like Simi Valley to LA, Riverside to LA, and the like.  The AV was never intended to be a true "bullet train", because the top speed without huge changes is only around 75.  But that 75 would still be a 50% improvement over the current 50.
> 
> The same with the decades old concept of LA to Vegas.  Not many would have used it for commuting (other than entertainers), but the tourist traffic could have made it work in the 1980's.  At that time, none of the mega resorts had been built yet, and most of their business actually came from the LA area.  Of course, at that time the Indian Reservations at most had bingo parlors and that was it.  And a few "Poker Clubs" in LA.
> 
> Now however, there are Indian Casinos all over the state, and some poker clubs rival those of Vegas 40 years ago.  And with the mega resorts, more and more travel goes there from long distance tourists, not the more local ones.  I remember driving to Vegas in the mid-1980's, and it was a nightmare.  It is actually less of a problem now, as more fly there than drive now.  With the mega resorts, it has become more "kid friendly", so many families pick going there instead of Disneyland.
> 
> But there are local lines all over LA that could use an improvement.  But those are lines already seeing 1 million plus riders a year, and they only intended on concentrating on those lines.  But as lines came up for their 20 year or so replacements, upgrade them to high speed rail so they could just add the trains later if needed.
> 
> The original plan for the state system was to do just that, HSR to Sacramento, then the Capitol Corridor HSR to San Francisco.  But the Governor did not like that, he wanted LA-SF only.  Even those of us that like the idea think this is retarded, and will never work.  There is just not enough of a demand through the Central Valley for this, nor for a route from SF to LA.
> 
> Yes, Acela goes from Boston to Washington, but relatively few actually take it from end to end.  Most take much shorter segments, like Boston-NY, NY-Philly, or the like.  And once you get outside of LA, there is really nothing anybody wants to see until SF.
> 
> Hey honey, let's go take the new bullet train!  I always wanted to see Bakersfield!  We can even catch a show at the Buck Owens Cristal Palace!  Or we can go to Fresno, and take the bus to Oakhurst and see the Talking Bear!
> 
> At least if they had tried to do it up the Coastal Route, there would have been things that people would have actually wanted to go to.  San Louis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Moro Bay, Pismo Beach, Hearst Castle, things that people would have actually taken it for for tourism if nothing else.  The Central Valley is literally the "Fly-Over Area" of the state.  We only go through it because we have to if we want to go somewhere else.  There is nothing there of interest.
> 
> Then you have the other issue, the weather.  Many may not know this, but the Central Valley can often get hurricane force winds.  And every decade or so they get killer dust storms.  I have a feeling that many times that route will be down because of that.  If anything, it should have been built closer to the mountains to mitigate that issue.  But this is not a real system, it is a huge vanity project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has it ever occurred to you that you are following bullet trains that do not exist for decades and that you are likely an obsessive compulsive train fanatic that does not care if a track cost a trillion dollars to build so that a few hundred can ride?  You might want to lie back on a couch and explain this to Siggy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see.
> 
> So the Acela Express never existed, and all of the 3 million plus that take it every year are what, government stooges?  Under some form of mind control?
> 
> This is why I do not take you seriously at all.  But please, feel free to start a thread in the Conspiracy Theory section and explain to us all how over 3 million people a year are fooled into believing they take a train that you insist never existed.
Click to expand...

Correct the Acela Express is not nor was it ever high speed rail.  You are the fool who is confused as to what a high speed train is.

Seek help


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## the other mike

The US attempt at high speed rail


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## the other mike

Even Africa has some.


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## Dusty

Angelo said:


> The US attempt at high speed rail
> View attachment 507849


The USA has airports kid.  Now go fart


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## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Even Africa has some.


Africa has AIDS


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## the other mike

Dusty said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even Africa has some.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Africa has AIDS
Click to expand...

Pretty clever analogy Chip ! You're on your way.


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## the other mike

Dusty said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US attempt at high speed rail
> View attachment 507849
> 
> 
> 
> The USA has airports kid.  Now go fart
Click to expand...

Me being 59, that must make you pretty fucking old to
be calling me kid.


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## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US attempt at high speed rail
> View attachment 507849
> 
> 
> 
> The USA has airports kid.  Now go fart
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Me being 59, that must make you pretty fucking old to
> be calling me kid.
Click to expand...

You have a mental age of 8 to 12 

Really


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## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
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> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even Africa has some.
> 
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> Africa has AIDS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pretty clever analogy Chip ! You're on your way.
Click to expand...

Yea just what these africans need, a bullet train to the dump to look for scraps


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## the other mike

Dusty said:


> You have a mental age of 8 to 12
> 
> Really


Same old trolling Frannie trying to flame everyone
because he can't get it up and his 4th wife hates him.
Poor baby.


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## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a mental age of 8 to 12
> 
> Really
> 
> 
> 
> Same old trolling Frannie trying to flame everyone
> because he can't get it up and his 4th wife hates him.
> Poor baby.
Click to expand...

Ya know if you want a fucking bullet train nothing is stopping you from building it.  Or are you all talk?


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## the other mike

Dusty said:


> Angelo said:
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> Click to expand...
> 
> Ya know if you want a fucking bullet train nothing is stopping you from building it.  Or are you all talk?
Click to expand...

Just talk.


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## Unkotare

Dusty said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even Africa has some.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Africa has AIDS
Click to expand...

Where in the world doesn't?


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## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya know if you want a fucking bullet train nothing is stopping you from building it.  Or are you all talk?
> 
> 
> 
> Just talk.
> View attachment 507859
Click to expand...

My pot stocks went up today, did you make a big purchase, again?


----------



## Dusty

Unkotare said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even Africa has some.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Africa has AIDS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where in the world doesn't?
Click to expand...

But does africa need bullet trains when no one is fed


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## Unkotare

Dusty said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Dusty said:
> 
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> Angelo said:
> 
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> 
> ... does africa need bullet trains when no one is fed
> 
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
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> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

When did I say they did? When did I say WE did?


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## Dusty

Unkotare said:


> Dusty said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> Angelo said:
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> ... does africa need bullet trains when no one is fed
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I say they did? When did I say WE did?
Click to expand...

Angelo thinks that bullet trains will erase all of the worlds problems


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## Unkotare

Dusty said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
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> Dusty said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> Angelo said:
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> ... does africa need bullet trains when no one is fed
> 
> 
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> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When did I say they did? When did I say WE did?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Angelo thinks that bullet trains will erase all of the worlds problems
Click to expand...

Well of course, but you have to bear in mind that he is a complete moron.


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## the other mike

Dusty said:


> My pot stocks went up today, did you make a big purchase, again?


My gf gives it to me.


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## Blackrook

Bullet trains are graft, like the dam project in _Mr. Smith Goes to Washington_.  That's why Democrats want bullet trains.


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## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> My pot stocks went up today, did you make a big purchase, again?
> 
> 
> 
> My gf gives it to me.
> View attachment 507863
Click to expand...

She is mentally 12 as well


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## westwall

Mushroom said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit long but it makes clear why high-speed rail is bad for Florida as well as the rest of the country.X Z CVz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 24 Why
> 
> 
> 24 Why < Why Florida Should Not Build
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.yumpu.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see there is a huge misunderstanding of most people over what "High Speed Rail" actually is.  And this is causing a lot of problems in actual communication.
> 
> In basic, conventional passenger trains are capped in the US at 59 mph.  And freight trains at 49 in most areas.  "High Speed Rail" is literally anything that travels at faster speeds.  It may be at 65 mph, 75 mph, 90 mph, or higher.
> 
> The average speed of the Acela Express is 85 mph.  It is HSR, because of the tracks, trains, and other factors (closed track system with no other traffic along any part of the route where they travel over 59 mph) makes it so.  And many places are wanting to upgrade to HSR, as it lets them do other things as well.  Replace older rail lines with newer ones.  Dump the expensive hybrid diesel locomotives and move to all-electric ones.  And the 20-50% increase in speed allows them to service more passengers without having to increase the number of trains or their size.
> 
> In fact, other than the silly system they are trying to build in California, I am not aware of any systems planning on building a true "Bullet Train" in the US.  Only HSR, at speeds between 60 and 100 MPH.  Not the 130 MPH plus of other countries.  And in most cases, commuter rail can be rather cheaply converted to HSR.  Primarily, the engines upgraded to newer ones, smoother tracks, and the route closed off to all other traffic so they operate independent of freight lines.
> 
> California has been making commuter rail lines for 30 years that are almost all capable of conversion to HSR with minimal expense.  For example, most of the newer lines are isolated on their own independent rail system, with no connection to anything but commuter trains.  Quite often in segments built specifically for them between freeways, so they can cheaply use existing right of ways without having to purchase additional land.  Another I am aware of like this with this as a future consideration is the Concord-Oakland line, that mostly runs in between the East and West lanes of State Route 4.  And many lines in LA are the same way.  No need at the time of construction to become HSR, but minimal expense if they do so in the future.
Click to expand...






Only 34 miles is rated for high speed.

Just sayin...


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## the other mike

Dusty said:


> She is mentally 12 as well


She doesn't go around being a dick like you if that's what you mean.


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## the other mike

Fucking Republicans are so lockstep against high speed rail they're almost as pre-wired and programmed as the sheep Democrats when it comes to abortion.


----------



## Dusty

Angelo said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> She is mentally 12 as well
> 
> 
> 
> She doesn't go around being a dick like you if that's what you mean.
Click to expand...

Actually she does


----------



## westwall

Angelo said:


> Fucking Republicans are so lockstep against high speed rail they're almost as pre-wired and programmed as the sheep Democrats when it comes to abortion.





Dude, if it makes sense to do it, it would be done.  It DOESN'T.   It is a tremendous boondoggle and an invitation for corrupt politicians to steal the taxpayers blind.


----------



## Hellbilly

Angelo said:


> Speaking of Rush ,Alex has a new album out doesn't he ?


I asked my drummer (the ultimate Rush fan) he said he thinks one is in the works. if i hear anything about it I'll let you know.


----------



## Markle

Mushroom said:


> Billyboom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo I predict we will have those in the year 2112. (See what I did there)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not In the Year 2525?
Click to expand...


----------



## Turtlesoup

Angelo How much of it was Biden and his corrupt administrations fault for not allow Texas to buy energy outside of the state.


----------



## the other mike

westwall said:


> Dude, if it makes sense to do it, it would be done.  It DOESN'T.   It is a tremendous boondoggle and an invitation for corrupt politicians to steal the taxpayers blind.


As I've continually been repeating for decades, all the other countries are doing it already, and by the time gas is $10 a gallon here, and airlines are only for the rich/business class, we'll be a day late and a dollar short when we start needing them.


----------



## the other mike

Billyboom said:


> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of Rush ,Alex has a new album out doesn't he ?
> 
> 
> 
> I asked my drummer (the ultimate Rush fan) he said he thinks one is in the works. if i hear anything about it I'll let you know.
Click to expand...


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## Unkotare

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, if it makes sense to do it, it would be done.  It DOESN'T.   It is a tremendous boondoggle and an invitation for corrupt politicians to steal the taxpayers blind.
> 
> 
> 
> As I've continually been repeating for decades, all the other countries are doing it already, and by the time gas is $10 a gallon here, and airlines are only for the rich/business class, we'll be a day late and a dollar short when we start needing them.
Click to expand...

You're a religious zealot.


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## Blackrook

Angelo said:


> Fucking Republicans are so lockstep against high speed rail they're almost as pre-wired and programmed as the sheep Democrats when it comes to abortion.


The reason we oppose high speed rail is because it's a big fucking waste of money.  Air travel has made trains, even fast trains, obsolete.


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## Mushroom

Markle said:


> Mushroom said:
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> Markle said:
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> This is a bit long but it makes clear why high-speed rail is bad for Florida as well as the rest of the country.X Z CVz
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> 24 Why
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> 24 Why < Why Florida Should Not Build
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> www.yumpu.com
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> 
> I can see there is a huge misunderstanding of most people over what "High Speed Rail" actually is.  And this is causing a lot of problems in actual communication.
> 
> In basic, conventional passenger trains are capped in the US at 59 mph.  And freight trains at 49 in most areas.  "High Speed Rail" is literally anything that travels at faster speeds.  It may be at 65 mph, 75 mph, 90 mph, or higher.
> 
> The average speed of the Acela Express is 85 mph.  It is HSR, because of the tracks, trains, and other factors (closed track system with no other traffic along any part of the route where they travel over 59 mph) makes it so.  And many places are wanting to upgrade to HSR, as it lets them do other things as well.  Replace older rail lines with newer ones.  Dump the expensive hybrid diesel locomotives and move to all-electric ones.  And the 20-50% increase in speed allows them to service more passengers without having to increase the number of trains or their size.
> 
> In fact, other than the silly system they are trying to build in California, I am not aware of any systems planning on building a true "Bullet Train" in the US.  Only HSR, at speeds between 60 and 100 MPH.  Not the 130 MPH plus of other countries.  And in most cases, commuter rail can be rather cheaply converted to HSR.  Primarily, the engines upgraded to newer ones, smoother tracks, and the route closed off to all other traffic so they operate independent of freight lines.
> 
> *California has been making commuter rail lines for 30 years that are almost all capable of conversion to HSR with minimal expense.*  For example, most of the newer lines are isolated on their own independent rail system, with no connection to anything but commuter trains.  Quite often in segments built specifically for them between freeways, so they can cheaply use existing right of ways without having to purchase additional land.  Another I am aware of like this with this as a future consideration is the Concord-Oakland line, that mostly runs in between the East and West lanes of State Route 4.  And many lines in LA are the same way.  No need at the time of construction to become HSR, but minimal expense if they do so in the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, you skipped reading anything in my source, which I fully expected.
> 
> To say that it would be of minimal expense to convert commuter rail lines, in use in California is foolish and totally untrue.  High-speed rails are extremely expensive and cannot go where a commuter rail had been laid.  In metro areas, the rails must be elevated for safety in addition to the rails and bed for the rails has to be far superior in construction.
> 
> ###
> Acquisition[edit]​In January 2015, the California High Speed Rail Authority issued a request for proposal (RFP) for complete trainsets. The proposals received will be reviewed so that acceptable bidders can be selected, and then requests for bids will be sent out.
> 
> [...]
> 
> In February 2015, ten companies formally expressed interest in producing trainsets for the system: Alstom, AnsaldoBreda (now Hitachi Rail Italy), Bombardier Transportation, CSR, Hyundai Rotem, Kawasaki Rail Car, Siemens, Sun Group U.S.A. partnered with CNR Tangshan, and Talgo. CSR merged with CNR in June 2015, bringing the number of companies down to eight.[49] Bombardier Transportation completed its merge with Alstom by January 2021, bringing the number of companies down to 7.[50]
> 
> Specifications[edit]​In addition to many other requirements:[51]
> 
> each trainset will have a sustained continuous speed of 220 mph (350 km/h);
> a maximum testing speed of 242 mph (389 km/h);
> a lifespan of at least 30 years;
> a length no longer than about 680 feet (210 m);
> 
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> 
> California High-Speed Rail - Wikipedia
> 
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> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...


And once again, *you are talking about the California HSR Program!*

This is *not* what the Metrorail in the LA area was trying to do, not even close.

This is what I mean by saying that you all have no idea what you are talking about.  I am talking about one system, and others are bringing up 10 other systems and screaming it would never and has never happened in the US.

Yes, I have said over and over that the current "California HSR Project" is a giant crap show.  Stupid, will never work, is as dumb as trying to break rocks with a soup spoon.

I am talking about the expansions they were trying on the Capitol Corridor, and the MetroLink systems in LA and SF.  None of those systems ever intended on going over 100 at the most.  Not "bullet trains", as much as faster surface trains (like the Acela Express) that can max out at maybe 100 in some areas, 60-75 in most others.

I know I have said that multiple times, yet just like Dusty you ignore everything said, and instead bring up a completely different system that has absolutely no connection to what I am talking about at all.

I am pretty much done, as I can tell I am talking to the wall here.  You listen to nothing said, and go off on completely unrelated things and insist that proves you are right.  Might as well be talking about how Adam Vinatieri with the Patriots and Colts holds the record for most field goals.  Then somebody else jumps up and screams that is completely wrong, and the record is held by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar with the Lakers.

And here I am pointing out the discussion was about Football, but the screamers insist that as Kareem has over 15,000 more than the other guy, obviously that means he is the best.  This is really that stupid, as you all keep pointing to the exact same thing over and over, and ignoring the other systems and proposals that are not even related in any way other than vaguely by name alone (like a Football Field Goal, and a Basketball Field Goal).


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## westwall

Angelo said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, if it makes sense to do it, it would be done.  It DOESN'T.   It is a tremendous boondoggle and an invitation for corrupt politicians to steal the taxpayers blind.
> 
> 
> 
> As I've continually been repeating for decades, all the other countries are doing it already, and by the time gas is $10 a gallon here, and airlines are only for the rich/business class, we'll be a day late and a dollar short when we start needing them.
Click to expand...





We won't ever need them.  If you think airline tickets are expensive, wait till the train is the only way to travel.  You seem to think that the world lives in a static bubble.

It doesn't.


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## Mushroom

Dusty said:


> Mushroom said:
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> Angelo said:
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> westwall said:
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> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
> 
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> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
> 
> 
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> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
> 
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vegasexperience.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
> 
> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
> 
> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable.  The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it.  Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there.  But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.  The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains.  The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley.  A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco.  The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I have been following the way they have wanted to do Metrorail for decades.
> 
> And they never intended HSR on each line, only on the ones that made the most sense for density.  Lines like Simi Valley to LA, Riverside to LA, and the like.  The AV was never intended to be a true "bullet train", because the top speed without huge changes is only around 75.  But that 75 would still be a 50% improvement over the current 50.
> 
> The same with the decades old concept of LA to Vegas.  Not many would have used it for commuting (other than entertainers), but the tourist traffic could have made it work in the 1980's.  At that time, none of the mega resorts had been built yet, and most of their business actually came from the LA area.  Of course, at that time the Indian Reservations at most had bingo parlors and that was it.  And a few "Poker Clubs" in LA.
> 
> Now however, there are Indian Casinos all over the state, and some poker clubs rival those of Vegas 40 years ago.  And with the mega resorts, more and more travel goes there from long distance tourists, not the more local ones.  I remember driving to Vegas in the mid-1980's, and it was a nightmare.  It is actually less of a problem now, as more fly there than drive now.  With the mega resorts, it has become more "kid friendly", so many families pick going there instead of Disneyland.
> 
> But there are local lines all over LA that could use an improvement.  But those are lines already seeing 1 million plus riders a year, and they only intended on concentrating on those lines.  But as lines came up for their 20 year or so replacements, upgrade them to high speed rail so they could just add the trains later if needed.
> 
> The original plan for the state system was to do just that, HSR to Sacramento, then the Capitol Corridor HSR to San Francisco.  But the Governor did not like that, he wanted LA-SF only.  Even those of us that like the idea think this is retarded, and will never work.  There is just not enough of a demand through the Central Valley for this, nor for a route from SF to LA.
> 
> Yes, Acela goes from Boston to Washington, but relatively few actually take it from end to end.  Most take much shorter segments, like Boston-NY, NY-Philly, or the like.  And once you get outside of LA, there is really nothing anybody wants to see until SF.
> 
> Hey honey, let's go take the new bullet train!  I always wanted to see Bakersfield!  We can even catch a show at the Buck Owens Cristal Palace!  Or we can go to Fresno, and take the bus to Oakhurst and see the Talking Bear!
> 
> At least if they had tried to do it up the Coastal Route, there would have been things that people would have actually wanted to go to.  San Louis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Moro Bay, Pismo Beach, Hearst Castle, things that people would have actually taken it for for tourism if nothing else.  The Central Valley is literally the "Fly-Over Area" of the state.  We only go through it because we have to if we want to go somewhere else.  There is nothing there of interest.
> 
> Then you have the other issue, the weather.  Many may not know this, but the Central Valley can often get hurricane force winds.  And every decade or so they get killer dust storms.  I have a feeling that many times that route will be down because of that.  If anything, it should have been built closer to the mountains to mitigate that issue.  But this is not a real system, it is a huge vanity project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has it ever occurred to you that you are following bullet trains that do not exist for decades and that you are likely an obsessive compulsive train fanatic that does not care if a track cost a trillion dollars to build so that a few hundred can ride?  You might want to lie back on a couch and explain this to Siggy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see.
> 
> So the Acela Express never existed, and all of the 3 million plus that take it every year are what, government stooges?  Under some form of mind control?
> 
> This is why I do not take you seriously at all.  But please, feel free to start a thread in the Conspiracy Theory section and explain to us all how over 3 million people a year are fooled into believing they take a train that you insist never existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Correct the Acela Express is not nor was it ever high speed rail.  You are the fool who is confused as to what a high speed train is.
> 
> Seek help
Click to expand...


Prove it.

By far, most track in the US is "Class 3" or lower.  That means a maximum speed of 60 MPH.  But please, feel free to look it up.





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It has to do with a lot of factors.  The grade and angle of curves, width of the shoulders on each side of the track, the switching equipment used, and if it is single use (passenger only) or mixed use (alternating both passenger and freight).  More than anything else, those are the factors that determine how fast trains on a system can go.

*Anything* rated at over 59 MPH is "High Speed Rail".  It does not matter if it is 65 mph, or 600 mph.  If it is rated at and travels at 60 mph or higher, it is HSR.

That means Class 4 through Class 9 rails, and the trains to run on them.

The Acela is running mostly on Class 7 rails, which means a maximum speed of 125 MPH.  But it does not travel that fast, only at an average of 85 mph (but up to 150 mph in some sections).  But it is still High Speed Rail.  Because unlike most other systems, it is a hybrid, that runs on both Class 3 rails, mostly Class 7 rails, but a few segments are Class 8 rails.





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See what I have put in there above?  Those are known as "References".  Can you say "References"?  I knew you couldn't.  But please pay attention to my last one, specifically pages 106-110.  Notice something?  For most of those routs, it is traveling in excess of 60, up to a maximum of 150 mph.

You scream and cry and whine that you are right, but provide no references at all.  To be honest, Angelo is no better because he posts 20 videos that are garbage PR fantasies that are as stupid as what you post, but slanted the other way.  He at least tries to post "references", even if he does not understand that a fantasy CGI promotional video or some idiot posting click-bait is not a real reference.  Might as well post a video from the Flat Earth Society as proof that the planet is not round.

Meanwhile, I talk about actual speeds, statistics, specific systems, and provide references to back them up.  And you just scream you are right, with nothing but your screaming to insist you are right.

This is really like watching "All About the Pentiums" at the level of logical discorse.


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## Likkmee




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## Stryder50

Angelo said:


> China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.
> 
> But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.
> 
> 
> Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.


I'm guessing in all these pages of scores of posts, many have already said this;
... comes down to cost effectiveness.

Does the cost to build and operate transform into affordable price to users where the system will pay for itself in short time usage and investment?

I tried Amtrak a few years ago to get from where I live (Lynden, Washington) to Kalispell, Montana.

First we had to drive down about 70 miles to Everett, WA, where instead of getting the train we had to board a bus since the tracks were washed out on the route.  We eventually got to get to the train in Spokane, then had to wait a few hours for another train to show up to provide some additional cars that needed to be attached.  We then had to get off at White Pass about 30 miles from Kalispell and drive down to our destination.

Trip home was less convoluted, but still, no more comfortable than going out there.  Took as long if not longer than if we had driven (without freedom to get out and stretch legs every couple of hours) and cost more than the driving would have.

Speaking of costs, IIRC, at that time about 2/3 of the real costs was in form of taxpayer subsidy and at that the costs was the same as if we had flown commercial.

In short, high speed rail is still something that is prohibitve in costs per passenger mile, grossly inefficient and highly inconvenient to use!  For most areas in the USA anyway.


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## Mushroom

westwall said:


> Angelo said:
> 
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> 
> westwall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, if it makes sense to do it, it would be done.  It DOESN'T.   It is a tremendous boondoggle and an invitation for corrupt politicians to steal the taxpayers blind.
> 
> 
> 
> As I've continually been repeating for decades, all the other countries are doing it already, and by the time gas is $10 a gallon here, and airlines are only for the rich/business class, we'll be a day late and a dollar short when we start needing them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We won't ever need them.  If you think airline tickets are expensive, wait till the train is the only way to travel.  You seem to think that the world lives in a static bubble.
> 
> It doesn't.
Click to expand...


His problem is mostly that he can not differentiate between fantasy and reality.  And believes anything that "Saint Elron of Musk" says without question or thought.  And that anybody that dares say that the Emperor has no clothes is a heretic and must be burned.

He shows a fiberglass mockup that is only an empty shell, and insists it is a "real train".  A 100 meter long "tube" with a top speed of 30 MPH and screams it is "really the Hyperloop and goes 500 MPH".  He brags it will be available any day now, and it is only not because of conspiracy.  Never mind that the reality is that the great St. Elon of Musk did build a true working system.

Electric taxis that travel at 30 MPH underground, with human drivers.  Years ago when this was still huge news, I actually had a "Sounds promising, let's see what happens" attitude to the project.  But as the years went on and I saw more and more hype and failure and little critical thought from the "true believers", I got more and more skeptical.  And all thought it would ever be a reality should have been shattered forever when the "Las Vegas Loop" was finally unveiled to the public just a few months ago.

Yet, even though their "New God" has been proven to be naked and covered in urine, they still believe anything he says.  Like bragging that he proved how amazing he was by putting his own personal Tesla Roadster into space!






Meanwhile, I was laughing my head off, as they do not even realize that he literally trolled everybody.  He literally recreated a shot from a 40 year old movie and comic book.






The man literally trolled the entire world with a now obscure pop culture reference from decades ago, and his minions insist it was proof of his greatness!  I often wonder when he will tell them to take up drinking Kool-Aid on White Nights.


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## Markle

Mushroom said:


> Markle said:
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> Mushroom said:
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> Markle said:
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> This is a bit long but it makes clear why high-speed rail is bad for Florida as well as the rest of the country.X Z CVz
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> 24 Why
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> 24 Why < Why Florida Should Not Build
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> I can see there is a huge misunderstanding of most people over what "High Speed Rail" actually is.  And this is causing a lot of problems in actual communication.
> 
> In basic, conventional passenger trains are capped in the US at 59 mph.  And freight trains at 49 in most areas.  "High Speed Rail" is literally anything that travels at faster speeds.  It may be at 65 mph, 75 mph, 90 mph, or higher.
> 
> The average speed of the Acela Express is 85 mph.  It is HSR, because of the tracks, trains, and other factors (closed track system with no other traffic along any part of the route where they travel over 59 mph) makes it so.  And many places are wanting to upgrade to HSR, as it lets them do other things as well.  Replace older rail lines with newer ones.  Dump the expensive hybrid diesel locomotives and move to all-electric ones.  And the 20-50% increase in speed allows them to service more passengers without having to increase the number of trains or their size.
> 
> In fact, other than the silly system they are trying to build in California, I am not aware of any systems planning on building a true "Bullet Train" in the US.  Only HSR, at speeds between 60 and 100 MPH.  Not the 130 MPH plus of other countries.  And in most cases, commuter rail can be rather cheaply converted to HSR.  Primarily, the engines upgraded to newer ones, smoother tracks, and the route closed off to all other traffic so they operate independent of freight lines.
> 
> *California has been making commuter rail lines for 30 years that are almost all capable of conversion to HSR with minimal expense.*  For example, most of the newer lines are isolated on their own independent rail system, with no connection to anything but commuter trains.  Quite often in segments built specifically for them between freeways, so they can cheaply use existing right of ways without having to purchase additional land.  Another I am aware of like this with this as a future consideration is the Concord-Oakland line, that mostly runs in between the East and West lanes of State Route 4.  And many lines in LA are the same way.  No need at the time of construction to become HSR, but minimal expense if they do so in the future.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, you skipped reading anything in my source, which I fully expected.
> 
> To say that it would be of minimal expense to convert commuter rail lines, in use in California is foolish and totally untrue.  High-speed rails are extremely expensive and cannot go where a commuter rail had been laid.  In metro areas, the rails must be elevated for safety in addition to the rails and bed for the rails has to be far superior in construction.
> 
> ###
> Acquisition[edit]​In January 2015, the California High Speed Rail Authority issued a request for proposal (RFP) for complete trainsets. The proposals received will be reviewed so that acceptable bidders can be selected, and then requests for bids will be sent out.
> 
> [...]
> 
> In February 2015, ten companies formally expressed interest in producing trainsets for the system: Alstom, AnsaldoBreda (now Hitachi Rail Italy), Bombardier Transportation, CSR, Hyundai Rotem, Kawasaki Rail Car, Siemens, Sun Group U.S.A. partnered with CNR Tangshan, and Talgo. CSR merged with CNR in June 2015, bringing the number of companies down to eight.[49] Bombardier Transportation completed its merge with Alstom by January 2021, bringing the number of companies down to 7.[50]
> 
> Specifications[edit]​In addition to many other requirements:[51]
> 
> each trainset will have a sustained continuous speed of 220 mph (350 km/h);
> a maximum testing speed of 242 mph (389 km/h);
> a lifespan of at least 30 years;
> a length no longer than about 680 feet (210 m);
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> California High-Speed Rail - Wikipedia
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> 
> And once again, *you are talking about the California HSR Program!*
> 
> This is *not* what the Metrorail in the LA area was trying to do, not even close.
> 
> This is what I mean by saying that you all have no idea what you are talking about.  I am talking about one system, and others are bringing up 10 other systems and screaming it would never and has never happened in the US.
> 
> Yes, I have said over and over that the current "California HSR Project" is a giant crap show.  Stupid, will never work, is as dumb as trying to break rocks with a soup spoon.
> 
> I am talking about the expansions they were trying on the Capitol Corridor, and the MetroLink systems in LA and SF.  None of those systems ever intended on going over 100 at the most.  Not "bullet trains", as much as faster surface trains (like the Acela Express) that can max out at maybe 100 in some areas, 60-75 in most others.
> 
> I know I have said that multiple times, yet just like Dusty you ignore everything said, and instead bring up a completely different system that has absolutely no connection to what I am talking about at all.
> 
> I am pretty much done, as I can tell I am talking to the wall here.  You listen to nothing said, and go off on completely unrelated things and insist that proves you are right.  Might as well be talking about how Adam Vinatieri with the Patriots and Colts holds the record for most field goals.  Then somebody else jumps up and screams that is completely wrong, and the record is held by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar with the Lakers.
> 
> And here I am pointing out the discussion was about Football, but the screamers insist that as Kareem has over 15,000 more than the other guy, obviously that means he is the best.  This is really that stupid, as you all keep pointing to the exact same thing over and over, and ignoring the other systems and proposals that are not even related in any way other than vaguely by name alone (like a Football Field Goal, and a Basketball Field Goal).
Click to expand...


This thread is about HIGH SPEED RAIL systems, not metro rail systems.  

Please pay attention, thank you, thank you so much.


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## Mushroom

Stryder50 To be fair, the only reason it makes sense in the US is as commuter rail service.

In other words, routes of 200 miles and less, in areas that are already seeing urban sprawl take people farther and farther distances from work and home, and to relieve congestion on the already stretched freeway systems.  LA, SF, Boston-NY-DC, and the like.  Not as transportation, but for commuting.

There are very few possibilities for using it for travel, but those are really only in places where you already have a high enough of a demand to justify it.  The only ones in the US that ever made sense to me for that were three proposals.

One, the LA-LV route.  4 decades ago when weekend travel between the two was in the millions per week, that made sense.  Today, it does not because the traffic is nowhere near that high anymore.

Another was an early California HSR up the Coastal Route.  Lots of tourist destinations along that route, as well as colleges.  But the state instead picked the train to nowhere solution.

Finally one I heard about 20 years ago from Atlanta to Orlando, which would relieve a lot of road and air traffic by routing people from the busiest SE air hub via rail (and akin to the system Saudi Arabia built).  With possible eventual connection to Miami, and maybe Charleston in the future for the same reason.  But that proposal was always long-term, and not a "bullet train", as much as 100-150 mph HSR.  With extensions taking place over decades, not a "start to finish" solution from the beginning.

But cross country?  Nope, stupid idea, and will never work.  Most rail travel today is for nostalgia, or people like John Madden who simply refuse to fly.  Before he jumped from NBC to Fox, they had even tried to bribe him to stay by building him his own private train to take him to games.  Ultimately he turned them down and went to Fox, but that shows how much somebody with influence can get a major company to consider supporting such eccentricities.


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## Mushroom

Markle What is the difference?

"High Speed Rail" is any rail system that travels in excess of 59 mph.

What you are saying is as retarded as claiming that Hawaii does not have an "Interstate Freeway System", since none of the freeways connect to any other state.  You are insisting on a definition that is not accurate.  It does not matter if it goes 100 or 1,000 miles, if it goes over 59 mph, it is "High Speed Rail".


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## Colin norris

Weatherman2020 
How ridiculous.  If it wasn't for the government you wouldnt have liberty. 
I can sense a slight poke at drmocrats in your post.


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## Weatherman2020

Colin norris said:


> Weatherman2020
> How ridiculous.  If it wasn't for the government you wouldnt have liberty.
> I can sense a slight poke at drmocrats in your post.


A. Quote my post so I know what I said. 
B. Only very limited governments grant liberty.  What we have now is a huge monster telling individuals how to live.


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## Blackrook

Trains became obsolete in the mid 20th century.  The reason we still have trains is because governments are subsidizing them.


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## Dusty

Mushroom said:


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> You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.
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> We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
> The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?
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> Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?
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> 
> It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> Yes, it will.
> 
> Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.
> 
> That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles.  And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.
> 
> This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down.  Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi.  Heck, remember when it was first announced?  The Internet does not forget.
> 
> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​
> Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
> *Total Current Cost: *$52-million
> *Travel Speed:* 155 mph
> *Estimated Capacity:* 4,000 passengers per hour
> *Completion Date:* Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
> *Projected Stops:* McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.
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> How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas | Fremont Street Experience
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> The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop) Total Current Cost: $52-million Travel Speed: 155 mph Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021 Projected Stops: Harry Reid...
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> 155 miles per hour!  4,000 passengers per hour!  The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world!  Completely autonomous vehicles!
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> Uhhh, no.  It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.
> 
> This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism.  It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, *it still does not exist*.
> 
> It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.
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> 
> buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA.  So, 65 miles away from LA.  And almost 80 miles from SF.  Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.
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> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.
> 
> As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades.  And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle.  And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains.  There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them.  And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it.  In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.
> 
> In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South.  The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does.  It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level.  That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101.  This is the same route that passenger trains take.
> 
> But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley.  Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often?  It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains.  No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more).  This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.
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> Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take.  The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".
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> And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like.  A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it.  But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance.  The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour.  And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.
> 
> And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one.  "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?"  And over a decade later, there is still no solution.  The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there.  Well, obviously that will never happen.  And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.
> 
> Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really.  There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains.  Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal.  But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades.  Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.
> 
> In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years.  Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem.  But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks).  But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.
> 
> And also as a disaster system.  This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years.  The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years).  The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal.  They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.
> 
> But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system.  It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system.  We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people.  Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built.  However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is a "bullet train"?  Do you even know what it is?
> 
> I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.
> 
> Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!
> 
> The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC.  Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.
> 
> You really have no idea what is even being discussed.  I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "BosWash Corridor" is the only place where population density and traffic patterns make a high speed rail system profitable.  The distances are too short for efficient air travel, and there is a LOT of traffic up and down it.  Sacramento to SF is similar due to commuter traffic as most people who work in SF can't afford to live there.  But you've got to cross that pesky San Francisco Bay on the Bay Bridge.  The old bridge was designed for train traffic, the new one isn't and can only be modified by giving up traffic lanes and even then can only carry light rail like interurban trains.  The way they HOPE California High Speed rail will work would be MetroRail from downtown Los Angeles to Palmdale, change trains to high speed rail (after they figure how to get across or under the Tehachapi Mountain Range) or a conventional slow speed rail train to Bakersfield with possibly another train change for the high speed run up the central valley.  A train change to BART in Sacramento. then BART to downtown San Francisco.  The total time will be far longer than the existing coastal route.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, I have been following the way they have wanted to do Metrorail for decades.
> 
> And they never intended HSR on each line, only on the ones that made the most sense for density.  Lines like Simi Valley to LA, Riverside to LA, and the like.  The AV was never intended to be a true "bullet train", because the top speed without huge changes is only around 75.  But that 75 would still be a 50% improvement over the current 50.
> 
> The same with the decades old concept of LA to Vegas.  Not many would have used it for commuting (other than entertainers), but the tourist traffic could have made it work in the 1980's.  At that time, none of the mega resorts had been built yet, and most of their business actually came from the LA area.  Of course, at that time the Indian Reservations at most had bingo parlors and that was it.  And a few "Poker Clubs" in LA.
> 
> Now however, there are Indian Casinos all over the state, and some poker clubs rival those of Vegas 40 years ago.  And with the mega resorts, more and more travel goes there from long distance tourists, not the more local ones.  I remember driving to Vegas in the mid-1980's, and it was a nightmare.  It is actually less of a problem now, as more fly there than drive now.  With the mega resorts, it has become more "kid friendly", so many families pick going there instead of Disneyland.
> 
> But there are local lines all over LA that could use an improvement.  But those are lines already seeing 1 million plus riders a year, and they only intended on concentrating on those lines.  But as lines came up for their 20 year or so replacements, upgrade them to high speed rail so they could just add the trains later if needed.
> 
> The original plan for the state system was to do just that, HSR to Sacramento, then the Capitol Corridor HSR to San Francisco.  But the Governor did not like that, he wanted LA-SF only.  Even those of us that like the idea think this is retarded, and will never work.  There is just not enough of a demand through the Central Valley for this, nor for a route from SF to LA.
> 
> Yes, Acela goes from Boston to Washington, but relatively few actually take it from end to end.  Most take much shorter segments, like Boston-NY, NY-Philly, or the like.  And once you get outside of LA, there is really nothing anybody wants to see until SF.
> 
> Hey honey, let's go take the new bullet train!  I always wanted to see Bakersfield!  We can even catch a show at the Buck Owens Cristal Palace!  Or we can go to Fresno, and take the bus to Oakhurst and see the Talking Bear!
> 
> At least if they had tried to do it up the Coastal Route, there would have been things that people would have actually wanted to go to.  San Louis Obispo, Santa Barbara, Moro Bay, Pismo Beach, Hearst Castle, things that people would have actually taken it for for tourism if nothing else.  The Central Valley is literally the "Fly-Over Area" of the state.  We only go through it because we have to if we want to go somewhere else.  There is nothing there of interest.
> 
> Then you have the other issue, the weather.  Many may not know this, but the Central Valley can often get hurricane force winds.  And every decade or so they get killer dust storms.  I have a feeling that many times that route will be down because of that.  If anything, it should have been built closer to the mountains to mitigate that issue.  But this is not a real system, it is a huge vanity project.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Has it ever occurred to you that you are following bullet trains that do not exist for decades and that you are likely an obsessive compulsive train fanatic that does not care if a track cost a trillion dollars to build so that a few hundred can ride?  You might want to lie back on a couch and explain this to Siggy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see.
> 
> So the Acela Express never existed, and all of the 3 million plus that take it every year are what, government stooges?  Under some form of mind control?
> 
> This is why I do not take you seriously at all.  But please, feel free to start a thread in the Conspiracy Theory section and explain to us all how over 3 million people a year are fooled into believing they take a train that you insist never existed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Correct the Acela Express is not nor was it ever high speed rail.  You are the fool who is confused as to what a high speed train is.
> 
> Seek help
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> Click to expand...
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> Prove it.
> 
> By far, most track in the US is "Class 3" or lower.  That means a maximum speed of 60 MPH.  But please, feel free to look it up.
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> It has to do with a lot of factors.  The grade and angle of curves, width of the shoulders on each side of the track, the switching equipment used, and if it is single use (passenger only) or mixed use (alternating both passenger and freight).  More than anything else, those are the factors that determine how fast trains on a system can go.
> 
> *Anything* rated at over 59 MPH is "High Speed Rail".  It does not matter if it is 65 mph, or 600 mph.  If it is rated at and travels at 60 mph or higher, it is HSR.
> 
> That means Class 4 through Class 9 rails, and the trains to run on them.
> 
> The Acela is running mostly on Class 7 rails, which means a maximum speed of 125 MPH.  But it does not travel that fast, only at an average of 85 mph (but up to 150 mph in some sections).  But it is still High Speed Rail.  Because unlike most other systems, it is a hybrid, that runs on both Class 3 rails, mostly Class 7 rails, but a few segments are Class 8 rails.
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> See what I have put in there above?  Those are known as "References".  Can you say "References"?  I knew you couldn't.  But please pay attention to my last one, specifically pages 106-110.  Notice something?  For most of those routs, it is traveling in excess of 60, up to a maximum of 150 mph.
> 
> You scream and cry and whine that you are right, but provide no references at all.  To be honest, Angelo is no better because he posts 20 videos that are garbage PR fantasies that are as stupid as what you post, but slanted the other way.  He at least tries to post "references", even if he does not understand that a fantasy CGI promotional video or some idiot posting click-bait is not a real reference.  Might as well post a video from the Flat Earth Society as proof that the planet is not round.
> 
> Meanwhile, I talk about actual speeds, statistics, specific systems, and provide references to back them up.  And you just scream you are right, with nothing but your screaming to insist you are right.
> 
> This is really like watching "All About the Pentiums" at the level of logical discorse.
Click to expand...

Actually it is easy to prove that you are a mental patient who does not actually know what a high speed train is, or that the Acela express is NOT A HIGH SPEED TRAIN

This *Japanese train*, which is currently being developed and tested by the Central *Japan Railway* Company (JR Central), holds the land *speed* record for rail vehicles, clocking in at 374 *mph*.Mar 23, 2021

That you little fart is a high speed train as it travels 300mph faster than the acela............Doofy

PS I bet that the military let you dig holes in the dirt and check for mines.


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## Mushroom

Blackrook said:


> Trains became obsolete in the mid 20th century.  The reason we still have trains is because governments are subsidizing them.


Actually, rail is still the primary mover of freight.  It is simply largely obsolete for long distance personal travel.


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## Mushroom

Dusty said:


> Actually it is easy to prove that you are a mental patient who does not actually know what a high speed train is, or that the Acela express is NOT A HIGH SPEED TRAIN
> 
> This *Japanese train*, which is currently being developed and tested by the Central *Japan Railway* Company (JR Central), holds the land *speed* record for rail vehicles, clocking in at 374 *mph*.Mar 23, 2021



And where is that the definition of what it is?

YOU point to the fastest train in the world, and insist that is it.  Therefore, I guess that anything under 300 miles an hour is not a high speed train.

OK, fine.  Therefore, we can just build all the 200 mph trains we want, and you can not say anything as it is not high speed rail.

Got it, your definition changes into any that you think supports your decision.  Acela is not High Speed, and we can replicate that nation wide as it does not meet your definition of what is not possible.


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## Dusty

Mushroom said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is easy to prove that you are a mental patient who does not actually know what a high speed train is, or that the Acela express is NOT A HIGH SPEED TRAIN
> 
> This *Japanese train*, which is currently being developed and tested by the Central *Japan Railway* Company (JR Central), holds the land *speed* record for rail vehicles, clocking in at 374 *mph*.Mar 23, 2021
> 
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> 
> 
> And where is that the definition of what it is?
> 
> YOU point to the fastest train in the world, and insist that is it.  Therefore, I guess that anything under 300 miles an hour is not a high speed train.
> 
> OK, fine.  Therefore, we can just build all the 200 mph trains we want, and you can not say anything as it is not high speed rail.
> 
> Got it, your definition changes into any that you think supports your decision.  Acela is not High Speed, and we can replicate that nation wide as it does not meet your definition of what is not possible.
Click to expand...

Again doofy the Acela's highest speed is 300 mph slower than the new high speed Japanese train.  But that's ok, you keep believing that the acela that can not beat a 112mph Toyota Prius in a flat out speed race is high speed.  Seriously you need to get medication, and fast


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## Colin norris

Weatherman2020 
There is no monster other than in your hate filled head. It wouldn't matter what he did, you would hate him. 
They hate him so much, the dirty filthy  Cathie church banned him from.having commumion when he became president but didn't object prior to that. 
The no star is the ignorant republicans that hate with a passion. 

Left to your own devices, your liberties would be taken back to slave days by big business etc. You are now a slave to big health with their rip off fees they charge. 
Thank the republicans  for allowing that. 
You have nothing to protect yourselves except the government. So Don't give me that shit about Biden  being a monster. 
You're paranoid and know nothing.


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## krichton

Blackrook said:


> Angelo said:
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> Fucking Republicans are so lockstep against high speed rail they're almost as pre-wired and programmed as the sheep Democrats when it comes to abortion.
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> The reason we oppose high speed rail is because it's a big fucking waste of money.  Air travel has made trains, even fast trains, obsolete.
Click to expand...


This is such a ridiculously dumb statement.  If you're traveling long distances like 1k miles and beyond, then sure, but who the fuck wants to take an airline to go 150-600 miles? Anyone who has ever taken an airplane knows what it's like to deal with the airlines.  To get on a train, there are no pat downs, long screening lines, long delays,  lost baggage or flights being rescheduled or you getting kicked off your flight.  You just get to your train station with your bags in tow, wait for your train to arrive on time, get on and get off when you reach your destination.    A flight from NYC to North Carolina would cost $360 and take over 2 hours, but you'd be lucky if you're entire trip from arriving at the airport till when you land takes just over 3 hours.   A bullet train can cover that distance in the same amount of time as your entire airline trip but without the headaches of the airlines and I wouldn't be surprised if it was much cheaper as well.  For shorter distances the cost and time of travel would absolutely be the only way to travel.  Again, extremely dumb statement.


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## Blackrook

If trains are profitable private enterprise will build them.


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## Markle

Mushroom said:


> Markle What is the difference?
> 
> "High Speed Rail" is any rail system that travels in excess of 59 mph.
> 
> What you are saying is as retarded as claiming that Hawaii does not have an "Interstate Freeway System", since none of the freeways connect to any other state.  You are insisting on a definition that is not accurate.  It does not matter if it goes 100 or 1,000 miles, if it goes over 59 mph, it is "High Speed Rail".


*200 km/h (120 mph)*
*High*-*speed* *rail* (HSR) is a type of passenger rail transport that operates significantly faster than the normal speed of rail traffic. Specific definitions by the European Union include 200 km/h (120 mph) for upgraded track and 250 km/h (160 mph) or faster for new track.
*High-speed Rail*​www.railsystem.net/high-speed-rail/


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## Markle

krichton said:


> Blackrook said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angelo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking Republicans are so lockstep against high speed rail they're almost as pre-wired and programmed as the sheep Democrats when it comes to abortion.
> 
> 
> 
> The reason we oppose high speed rail is because it's a big fucking waste of money.  Air travel has made trains, even fast trains, obsolete.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is such a ridiculously dumb statement.  If you're traveling long distances like 1k miles and beyond, then sure, but who the fuck wants to take an airline to go 150-600 miles? Anyone who has ever taken an airplane knows what it's like to deal with the airlines.  To get on a train, there are no pat downs, long screening lines, long delays,  lost baggage or flights being rescheduled or you getting kicked off your flight.  You just get to your train station with your bags in tow, wait for your train to arrive on time, get on and get off when you reach your destination.    *A flight from NYC to North Carolina would cost $360 and take over 2 hours*, but you'd be lucky if you're entire trip from arriving at the airport till when you land takes just over 3 hours.   A bullet train can cover that distance in the same amount of time as your entire airline trip but without the headaches of the airlines and I wouldn't be surprised if it was much cheaper as well.  For shorter distances the cost and time of travel would absolutely be the only way to travel.  Again, extremely dumb statement.
Click to expand...


Strange, I found numerous flights from NYC to Raleigh, NC for $69.00.



			https://www.priceline.com/m/fly/search/NYC-RDU-20210803/?cabin-class=ECO&no-date-search=false&num-adults=1&sbsroute=slice1&search-type=10&vrid=9aec67b708b249052a86018bc0b8a24a


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## Markle

Dusty said:


> This *Japanese train*, which is currently being developed and tested by the Central *Japan Railway* Company (JR Central), holds the land *speed* record for rail vehicles, clocking in at 374 *mph*.Mar 23, 2021
> 
> That you little fart is a high speed train as it travels 300mph faster than the acela............Doofy
> 
> PS I bet that the military let you dig holes in the dirt and check for mines.


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## Dusty

Markle said:


> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> This *Japanese train*, which is currently being developed and tested by the Central *Japan Railway* Company (JR Central), holds the land *speed* record for rail vehicles, clocking in at 374 *mph*.Mar 23, 2021
> 
> That you little fart is a high speed train as it travels 300mph faster than the acela............Doofy
> 
> PS I bet that the military let you dig holes in the dirt and check for mines.
Click to expand...

Just pointing out that the Japanese 374 mph train is high speed and that the acela express 70mph train is thus very low speed


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## Markle

Dusty said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dusty said:
> 
> 
> 
> This *Japanese train*, which is currently being developed and tested by the Central *Japan Railway* Company (JR Central), holds the land *speed* record for rail vehicles, clocking in at 374 *mph*.Mar 23, 2021
> 
> That you little fart is a high speed train as it travels 300mph faster than the acela............Doofy
> 
> PS I bet that the military let you dig holes in the dirt and check for mines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just pointing out that the Japanese 374 mph train is high speed and that the acela express 70mph train is thus very low speed
Click to expand...


----------



## Mushroom

Markle said:


> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Markle What is the difference?
> 
> "High Speed Rail" is any rail system that travels in excess of 59 mph.
> 
> What you are saying is as retarded as claiming that Hawaii does not have an "Interstate Freeway System", since none of the freeways connect to any other state.  You are insisting on a definition that is not accurate.  It does not matter if it goes 100 or 1,000 miles, if it goes over 59 mph, it is "High Speed Rail".
> 
> 
> 
> *200 km/h (120 mph)*
> *High*-*speed* *rail* (HSR) is a type of passenger rail transport that operates significantly faster than the normal speed of rail traffic.* Specific definitions by the European Union *include 200 km/h (120 mph) for upgraded track and 250 km/h (160 mph) or faster for new track.
> *High-speed Rail*​www.railsystem.net/high-speed-rail/
Click to expand...


I bolded the significant portion in that statement to make that clear.

That is the EU.  This is the US.  Japan has yet another definition, as do all other countries.

To put it simply, there is no single definition.  And as this has been discussing the US, I have been using the US definitions.

For that, any train that is allowed to exceed the 59 MPH cap on passenger rail transit.  The US has an artificially low rating, as most passenger service have run on mixed use lines, with both freight and passenger trains on the same system.

To certify for high speed in the US, it has to be on a closed system, where no other trains by HSR passengers are used on those segments (this is why in some areas the Acela travels at 60, at others 150).  The rails themselves have to be certified to be able to handle those speeds, *no road crossings, and the right of ways (track and median) have to be of a sufficient size to keep them safe to others.*

In most of the US, we will never meet those speeds and standards.  Medians are to narrow, road crossings, and mixed use also prevent most from ever being allowed to go that fast.  So our standard is lower.  Of course, most other countries also do not cap their standard passenger lines at only 59 mph.

For example, most "standard passenger trains" in Germany travel at speeds of 120+ MPH.  That is double the speeds of those in the US, because they are not having to follow US standards.  The same can be done here, but it is primarily the law that mandates the 59 MPH speeds and nothing to do with the capabilities of the rail, trains, or anything else themselves.


----------



## Markle

Mushroom said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mushroom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Markle What is the difference?
> 
> "High Speed Rail" is any rail system that travels in excess of 59 mph.
> 
> What you are saying is as retarded as claiming that Hawaii does not have an "Interstate Freeway System", since none of the freeways connect to any other state.  You are insisting on a definition that is not accurate.  It does not matter if it goes 100 or 1,000 miles, if it goes over 59 mph, it is "High Speed Rail".
> 
> 
> 
> *200 km/h (120 mph)*
> *High*-*speed* *rail* (HSR) is a type of passenger rail transport that operates significantly faster than the normal speed of rail traffic.* Specific definitions by the European Union *include 200 km/h (120 mph) for upgraded track and 250 km/h (160 mph) or faster for new track.
> *High-speed Rail*​www.railsystem.net/high-speed-rail/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I bolded the significant portion in that statement to make that clear.
> 
> That is the EU.  This is the US.  Japan has yet another definition, as do all other countries.
> 
> To put it simply, there is no single definition.  And as this has been discussing the US, I have been using the US definitions.
> 
> For that, any train that is allowed to exceed the 59 MPH cap on passenger rail transit.  The US has an artificially low rating, as most passenger service have run on mixed use lines, with both freight and passenger trains on the same system.
> 
> To certify for high speed in the US, it has to be on a closed system, where no other trains by HSR passengers are used on those segments (this is why in some areas the Acela travels at 60, at others 150).  The rails themselves have to be certified to be able to handle those speeds, *no road crossings, and the right of ways (track and median) have to be of a sufficient size to keep them safe to others.*
> 
> In most of the US, we will never meet those speeds and standards.  Medians are to narrow, road crossings, and mixed use also prevent most from ever being allowed to go that fast.  So our standard is lower.  Of course, most other countries also do not cap their standard passenger lines at only 59 mph.
> 
> For example, most "standard passenger trains" in Germany travel at speeds of 120+ MPH.  That is double the speeds of those in the US, because they are not having to follow US standards.  The same can be done here, but it is primarily the law that mandates the 59 MPH speeds and nothing to do with the capabilities of the rail, trains, or anything else themselves.
Click to expand...


----------



## airplanemechanic

Angelo said:


> When gas is $10 a gallon you'll start caring and China will be laughing.



When gas is 10 dollars a gallon you won't have anywhere to go because everything will be shut down. You'll starve to death because a ham sandwich will be 50 dollars.


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## the other mike

airplanemechanic said:


> When gas is 10 dollars a gallon you won't have anywhere to go because everything will be shut down. You'll starve to death because a ham sandwich will be 50 dollars.


Teamsters can do that in one day. Better not piss them off.

Jimmy Hoffa's long gone.


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## Uncensored2008

airplanemechanic said:


> When gas is 10 dollars a gallon you won't have anywhere to go because everything will be shut down. You'll starve to death because a ham sandwich will be 50 dollars.




BUT the rulers of the state will provide gruel after a hard days labor.


----------



## Concerned American

Uncensored2008 said:


> BUT the rulers of the state will provide gruel after a hard days labor.


Arbeit Macht Frei.  Where have we heard that before?


----------



## 2aguy

Uncensored2008 said:


> BUT the rulers of the state will provide gruel after a hard days labor.




Yep....this is the thing the left never tells the dupes.........after they destroy the best system in the world....the "equality" that they will impose will be the equality of forced labor and death camps.....as history shows us wherever the left takes total control...


----------



## 22lcidw

Uncensored2008 said:


> BUT the rulers of the state will provide gruel after a hard days labor.


But they will make a bad time look better and turn our nation into a musical.


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## DGS49

High Speed Rail is not economically viable anywhere in the world.  It only exists where governments decide that it is beneficial, but it requires huge subsidies.

Here in the U.S., where gas is still relatively cheap, everyone owns a car, and air travel is also relatively affordable, the investment in high-speed rail simply makes no sense. The proof that it is insane is the fact that they are doing it in California.  Unsuccessfully.


----------

