# The Legendary Dante versus The Tenacious TNHarley



## Dante

,..........


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## TNHarley

loss for words already? 
I have been on my phone and my home internet has been out. hopefully tonight when I get home, Ican post my op


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## TNHarley

Ok... So who is really destroying America?
I blame, of course, liberals and their policies(you can start from back when)
I blame republican greed as well
My reason being is: 
We all know liberalism is different than it was in the 18th and 19th centuries
What is the difference? They embrace their role for caring for the people
Let me give you some examples
- FDR's "New Deal"
Started subsidized housing and federal involvement in healthcare(luckily congress said NO to a lot of it)
- LBJ and the "Federal Reserve"
- Carter and the "Community Reinvestment Act"
- Clinton and Robert Rubin and the "GLBD" (Gramm Leach Blily Act)
- Democrats pushing for "Fannie Mae"
- Obama taking back work requirements in welfare

All of the examples I have given, have destroyed our economy.

All this "giving" from liberal, and with the right being against SO MANY handouts, we have been divided like no other time( I think? lol)
You all also shoot negative terms when people do not disagree. 
Flat out LIES I might add
Homophobe, racist, bigots for example(and get the simple minded followers you have to hate us)
Then you have Obama, the "United We Were, Divided We Stand" President (my term )


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## TNHarley

Just for shits and giggles 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Ic4ehABxI]Barney Frank Caught Lying About Fannie Mae.flv - YouTube[/ame]


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## TNHarley

I do not even like Reagan but this is a good video that represents my opinion.. and fact 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3hY1eagq88]Reagan Warned Us About Obama - YouTube[/ame]


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## Dante

TNHarley said:


> Just for shits and giggles
> Barney Frank Caught Lying About Fannie Mae.flv - YouTube
> Barney Frank in 2005: What Housing Bubble? - YouTube



In 2005, Frank speaks of the bubble being far out thinking? So he was in the mainstream.  

Out of context video bs?  
\
facts: In 2009 Frank responded to what he called "wholly inaccurate efforts by Republicans to blame Democrats, and [me] in particular" for the subprime mortgage crisis, which is linked to the financial crisis of 2007&#8211;2009.[49] He outlined his efforts to reform these institutions and add regulations, but met resistance from Republicans, with the main exception being a bill with Republican Mike Oxley that died because of opposition from President Bush.[49] The 2005 bill included Frank objectives, which were to impose tighter regulation of Fannie and Freddie and new funds for rental housing. Frank and Mike Oxley achieved broad bipartisan support for the bill in the Financial Services Committee, and it passed the House. But the Senate never voted on the measure, in part because President Bush was likely to veto it. "If it had passed, that would have been one of the ways we could have reined in the bowling ball going downhill called housing," Oxley told Frank. 

 *In an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal, Lawrence B. Lindsey, a former economic adviser to President George W. Bush, wrote that Frank "is the only politician I know who has argued that we needed tighter rules that intentionally produce fewer homeowners and more renters."*[7]   Once control shifted to the Democrats, Frank was able to help guide both the Federal Housing Reform Act (H.R. 1427) and the Mortgage Reform and Anti-Predatory Lending Act (H.R. 3915) to passage in 2007.[49] 

Frank also said that the Republican-led Gramm&#8211;Leach&#8211;Bliley Act of 1999, which repealed part of the Glass&#8211;Steagall Act of 1933 and removed the wall between commercial and investment banks, contributed to the financial meltdown.[49] Frank stated further that "during twelve years of Republican rule no reform was adopted regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In 2007, a few months after I became the Chairman, the House passed a strong reform bill; we sought to get the [Bush] administration's approval to include it in the economic stimulus legislation in January 2008; and finally got it passed and onto President Bush's desk in July 2008. Moreover, "we were able to adopt it in nineteen months, and we could have done it much quicker if the [Bush] administration had cooperated."[50]  Barney Frank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## TNHarley

Dante said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just for shits and giggles
> Barney Frank Caught Lying About Fannie Mae.flv - YouTube
> Barney Frank in 2005: What Housing Bubble? - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 2005, Frank speaks of the bubble being far out thinking? So he was in the mainstream.
> 
> Out of context video bs?
> \
> facts: In 2009 Frank responded to what he called "wholly inaccurate efforts by Republicans to blame Democrats, and [me] in particular" for the subprime mortgage crisis, which is linked to the financial crisis of 2007&#8211;2009.[49] He outlined his efforts to reform these institutions and add regulations, but met resistance from Republicans, with the main exception being a bill with Republican Mike Oxley that died because of opposition from President Bush.[49] The 2005 bill included Frank objectives, which were to impose tighter regulation of Fannie and Freddie and new funds for rental housing. Frank and Mike Oxley achieved broad bipartisan support for the bill in the Financial Services Committee, and it passed the House. But the Senate never voted on the measure, in part because President Bush was likely to veto it. "If it had passed, that would have been one of the ways we could have reined in the bowling ball going downhill called housing," Oxley told Frank.
> 
> *In an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal, Lawrence B. Lindsey, a former economic adviser to President George W. Bush, wrote that Frank "is the only politician I know who has argued that we needed tighter rules that intentionally produce fewer homeowners and more renters."*[7]   Once control shifted to the Democrats, Frank was able to help guide both the Federal Housing Reform Act (H.R. 1427) and the Mortgage Reform and Anti-Predatory Lending Act (H.R. 3915) to passage in 2007.[49]
> 
> Frank also said that the Republican-led Gramm&#8211;Leach&#8211;Bliley Act of 1999, which repealed part of the Glass&#8211;Steagall Act of 1933 and removed the wall between commercial and investment banks, contributed to the financial meltdown.[49] Frank stated further that "during twelve years of Republican rule no reform was adopted regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. In 2007, a few months after I became the Chairman, the House passed a strong reform bill; we sought to get the [Bush] administration's approval to include it in the economic stimulus legislation in January 2008; and finally got it passed and onto President Bush's desk in July 2008. Moreover, "we were able to adopt it in nineteen months, and we could have done it much quicker if the [Bush] administration had cooperated."[50]  Barney Frank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


"It&#8217;s true that key Democrats opposed the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which would have established a single, independent regulatory body with jurisdiction over Fannie and Freddie &#8211; a move that the Government Accountability Office had recommended in a 2004 report. Current House Banking Committee chairman Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts opposed legislation to reorganize oversight in 2000 (when Clinton was still president), 2003 and 2004, saying of the 2000 legislation that concern about Fannie and Freddie was "overblown." Just last summer, Senate Banking Committee chairman Chris Dodd called a Bush proposal for an independent agency to regulate the two entities "ill-advised."



While the republican majority voted for GLBD, so did the Democrats. I figure the buck stops with the President? LOL Rubin shoved the GLBD down Clintons throat and he signed it with a smile on his face. Rubin got MUCH personal satisfaction out of that. Ol Clinton got played like a banjo in the middle of Virginia  A little bit of privacy issues with that.. But hey, what is privacy anymore? 

You can look at the GLBD as a "bail-out law" for banks, so-to-speak.
 Borrowers were reckless, brokers were greedy, rating agencies were negligent, customers were naïve, and government encouraged the fiasco with unrealistic housing goals and unlimited lines of credit at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
The Glass-Steagall act helped the Great Depression. When we de-regulated it, look what happened. It will probably happen again if we don't "re-regulate". Like that is going to happen, right?


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## Dante

Yet Barney Frank didn't lie. Juxtaposing videos from different years, addressing differnt issues, aguments and bills is all you can do?    so much work to attempt to prove a lie?  Why not oppose or attack people with truth and facts as it is much easier to do, and you make a point that others cannot deny or refute?


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## Dante

TNHarley said:


> Ok... So who is really destroying America?
> I blame, of course, liberals and their policies(you can start from back when)
> I blame republican greed as well
> 
> ...


 Is America really being destroyed? In my reading of early American history, that accusation has been lobbed at political and ideological opponents since Thomas Jefferson went whack-a-doodle-do over the Federlists Hamilton and Marshall, and Adams among others ...


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## TNHarley

Dante said:


> Yet Barney Frank didn't lie. Juxtaposing videos from different years, addressing differnt issues, aguments and bills is all you can do?    so much work to attempt to prove a lie?  Why not oppose or attack people with truth and facts as it is much easier to do, and you make a point that others cannot deny or refute?



But he DID lie?
Get it yet?


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## TNHarley

Dante said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok... So who is really destroying America?
> I blame, of course, liberals and their policies(you can start from back when)
> I blame republican greed as well
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Is America really being destroyed? In my reading of early American history, that accusation has been lobbed at political and ideological opponents since Thomas Jefferson went whack-a-doodle-do over the Federlists Hamilton and Marshall, and Adams among others ...
Click to expand...


It IS being destroyed. People throw stuff around till it has no more meaning, like racism. 
I am kind of disappointed in you bro. I thought you were better than this!
Let me give you some examples of how "America" is not AMERICA anymore
-The number of Americans living month-to-month has increased. And does constantly. What happened to the "American Dream"? 
- What happened to the dream of owning a business? It is harder today to own a small business. Between taxes and liberal policies, it gets harder and harder to do
-Where are the "jobs"? Oh yea, they are "shovel ready" 
-How many Americans have left the workforce since the recession has supposedly ended? Just imagine what the unemployment would be if that was added?
-The USA is ranked 14 in GDP per capita
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html
-Low paying jobs continue to increase for several reasons; TAXES, ACA, people feeling dependent and settling for part-time/minimum wage jobs, then BITCH ABOUT IT. 
-How much is my 4 year son in debt?
-The more money that is spent on poverty, INCREASES poverty. WTF is up with that?
-Obama has gained 14 million(?) on food stamps, but he thinks it is not enough, so he spends millions more on ads to ENCOURAGE more. WTF is up with that?


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## TNHarley

Is Dante pulling a rightwinger?


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## Dante

TNHarley said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yet Barney Frank didn't lie. Juxtaposing videos from different years, addressing differnt issues, aguments and bills is all you can do?    so much work to attempt to prove a lie?  Why not oppose or attack people with truth and facts as it is much easier to do, and you make a point that others cannot deny or refute?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But he DID lie?
> Get it yet?
Click to expand...


English.  Look up 'lie'    Dante was never one that claimed Bush, Cheney, and Powell lied. Why?   Look up 'lie'


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## Dante

TNHarley said:


> Dante said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TNHarley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok... So who is really destroying America?
> I blame, of course, liberals and their policies(you can start from back when)
> I blame republican greed as well
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Is America really being destroyed? In my reading of early American history, that accusation has been lobbed at political and ideological opponents since Thomas Jefferson went whack-a-doodle-do over the Federlists Hamilton and Marshall, and Adams among others ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It IS being destroyed. People throw stuff around till it has no more meaning, like racism.
> I am kind of disappointed in you bro. I thought you were better than this!
> Let me give you some examples of how "America" is not AMERICA anymore
> -The number of Americans living month-to-month has increased. And does constantly. What happened to the "American Dream"?
> - What happened to the dream of owning a business? It is harder today to own a small business. Between taxes and liberal policies, it gets harder and harder to do
> -Where are the "jobs"? Oh yea, they are "shovel ready"
> -How many Americans have left the workforce since the recession has supposedly ended? Just imagine what the unemployment would be if that was added?
> -The USA is ranked 14 in GDP per capita
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html
> -Low paying jobs continue to increase for several reasons; TAXES, ACA, people feeling dependent and settling for part-time/minimum wage jobs, then BITCH ABOUT IT.
> -How much is my 4 year son in debt?
> -The more money that is spent on poverty, INCREASES poverty. WTF is up with that?
> -Obama has gained 14 million(?) on food stamps, but he thinks it is not enough, so he spends millions more on ads to ENCOURAGE more. WTF is up with that?
Click to expand...


Identifying and stamping out 'racism' is high on your agenda?  


Hiding behind "the children"???  And I thought you were better than that.   btw, neither your 4 yeard old or anybody elses is in debt.  The scenario is ONLY if we do nothing, which NO ONE is proposing.  Remember the Reagan/Bush debt and the Clinton years?


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## TNHarley

do nothing? wtf do you think we are doing? everyone is too worried about making it worse; bring in more welfare, more job competition etc
dante, the country is slowly heading to hell. I am sorry you dont see yhat. you probably will one day, although, it might not be till complete totalitarianism shoves its big dick in your mouth..

clinton had a good economy.. no doubt! what to blame it on is another debate.. IE the tech boom/stock.bubble/being lucky or if he was just an economical genius. (his comments as of late lean towards the former  )
then again, the buck stops at the WH, right?


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## Dante

TNHarley said:


> do nothing? wtf do you think we are doing? everyone is too worried about making it worse; bring in more welfare, more job competition etc
> dante, the country is slowly heading to hell. I am sorry you dont see yhat. you probably will one day, although, it might not be till complete totalitarianism shoves its big dick in your mouth..
> 
> clinton had a good economy.. no doubt! what to blame it on is another debate.. IE the tech boom/stock.bubble/being lucky or if he was just an economical genius. (his comments as of late lean towards the former  )
> then again, the buck stops at the WH, right?



And before the "good economy" and the "tech boom/stock bubble" came along, America had to suffer the cries and whines of _doom and gloom_ from partisan ideologues like you.

Your lack of faith in America would be amusing if it also lacked your strong desire to see America fail in order to prove a world viewvalid.  You are so like the End Times Christians on this one: trapped by beliefs


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## TNHarley

LOL
u calling someone partisan? YOU calling someone tenacious referring to ideology? what a joke
you are picking and choosing what you want with this debate, and really, not even debating. another joke
did I say anything about America not suffering before Clinton signed our economy away? NO
bush was too worried about world affairs ( lol hypocrit alert) and I think Reagan was a terrible president.
I have lost some faith in America, yes. LOOK AT US if we didnt a goddamn dem in the WH u might say that as well. why in the holy fuck would I want America to fail anymore? you probably think I wanted putin to hand obama his ass on a platter, too, ey? regardless if I think we have a useless POS in office or not, I still want us to be #1. that was just More useless rhetoric by a tenacious Democrat
so fuck your false extrapolation
This is a debate, not a goddamn flame thread


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## Dante

News Flash:  America is still number 1

The world has changed. Deal with it


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## Dante

A debate with nothing but false premises on one side is not reaaly a debate, it is a right wing screed


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## TNHarley

then prove me wrong dante!


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## TNHarley

You owned me bro
Might as well carve your name in me..


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## Dante

Love you too


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## TNHarley

lol


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