# New vaccine by Pfizer for babes



## RodISHI (Feb 28, 2010)

I found these news releases from Pfizer. I been trying to figure it out and I'm wondering if some experts on here can help me understand all this stuff.

FDA apparently approved this new drug for infants and children.


> February 24, 2010 11:22 AM Eastern Time
> Pfizer Receives FDA Approval for Prevnar 13 for the Prevention of Invasive Pneumococcal Disease in Infants and Young Children
> 
> NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Pfizer Inc. (NYSEFE) announced today that the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has granted approval for Prevnar 13 (Pneumococcal 13-valent Conjugate Vaccine [Diphtheria CRM197 Protein]), the Companys 13-valent pneumococcal conjugate vaccine. Prevnar 13 is indicated for active immunization of children 6 weeks through 5 years of age for the prevention of invasive disease caused by 13 Streptococcus pneumoniae (S. pneumoniae) serotypes 1, 3, 4, 5, 6A, 6B, 7F, 9V, 14, 18C, 19A, 19F, and 23F. Prevnar 13 is also indicated for the prevention of otitis media caused by serotypes 4, 6B, 9V, 14, 18C, 19F, and 23F. No otitis media efficacy data are available for serotypes 1, 3, 5, 6A, 7F, and 19A.
> ...




I have a few questions and probably will have more tomorrow. Does our government agencies actually promote specific products for use on the people? Who makes the call to promote these products?



> February 24, 2010 01:33 PM Eastern Time
> CDCs Advisory Committee On Immunization Practices Recommends Pfizers Prevnar 13 Vaccine For The Prevention Of Invasive Pneumococcal Disease In Infants And Young Children In The U.S.
> 
> Recommendations Include Primary Dosing Series and a Supplemental Dose for Children Fully Immunized with Prevnar®
> ...



I'm also having a hard time figuring out all these numbers on the amounts of childhood Pneumonia cases. From what I'm seeing here in this 2006 health report from CDC, I am not finding an overwhelming number of deaths caused by Pneumonia but this stuff needs deciphered by someone smarter than me. 

http://www.cdc.gov/NCHS/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf

On,
Table 11. Death rate for 113 Selected Causes and Enterocolitis due to Clostridium difficile, by age...
(rates per 100,000 in specific age groups.......)

*Pneumonia *
all ages - 18.5     under 1 year 5.9    1 to 7 years  0.7       5 to 14 years  0.4



Figures for Pneumoconioses (dust and such) and chemicals figures are 0.3 for all ages. Pneumontis due to liquids (drowning) and solids are 5.6 for all ages. 


From quick facts:

Population, 2008 estimate 	304,059,724

Persons under 5 years old, percent, 2008 	 6.9%

Persons under 18 years old, percent, 2008 	24.3%


Can anyone from this information for 2006 come up with a figure of how many children under age 14 actually died in 2006 from Pneumonia?


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## Ravi (Feb 28, 2010)

Despite the name, the organism causes many types of pneumococcal infection other than pneumonia, including acute sinusitis, otitis media, meningitis, bacteremia, sepsis, osteomyelitis, septic arthritis, endocarditis, peritonitis, pericarditis, cellulitis, and brain abscess.

_S. pneumoniae_ is the most common cause of bacterial meningitis in adults and children, and is one of the top two isolates found in ear infection, otitis media.[2] Pneumococcal pneumonia is more common in the very young and the very old.


Google is your friend.


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 28, 2010)

What is to not understand? It clearly tells you what its purpose is. And the US Government encourages that infants and children receive immunizations , if this new one is the only one that does what it claims then by default they are supporting it when they require or recommend immunizations. Due to patent laws it will be what? 8 years before a generic can be made.


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## RodISHI (Feb 28, 2010)

RetiredGySgt said:


> What is to not understand? It clearly tells you what its purpose is. And the US Government encourages that infants and children receive immunizations , if this new one is the only one that does what it claims then by default they are supporting it when they require or recommend immunizations. Due to patent laws it will be what? 8 years before a generic can be made.




I am looking for just how many babes who actually need to be injected with Prevnar? Statistically, how many children that are born healthy and are healthy truly have a life threatening need to get this particular shot? How many healthy children have actually died from the various types of pneumonia listed in the posted press releases that this vaccine is claimed to prevent? How many children died from the types of pneumonia that this particular vaccine says it does not prevent? How does CDC justify recommending that every child in this nation be given these shots when statistically they lack of having intricate evidence that proves healthy children should be given this vaccine?  It appears from the CDC report of 2006 I linked has the overall count of deaths for all pneumonia types of those under 1 year old at 245. How many of this nation's 245 children under one year old that died in 2006 of pneumonia had other serious illnesses that are not mentioned in that year's report? 

I suspect that if big pharma can intimate that there is a need for all children to be vaccinated this would surely reinforce a non existent monetary value to be equated with a technology being used. Simply put, experimenting on our nations children for financial gain. Whether Prevnar is a trigger for a preexisting undiscovered condition at the time of vaccination appears to be up for argument. If in fact it is a trigger then it is a culprit in causation. Had the vaccine not been administered, it would not have triggered the reaction leading to the death or adverse condition. It is then possible that it could be said that the drug vaccine was not a factor in the causation because the drug was never administered in the subject. However, this does not appear to be the case. 

It is my understanding that there is a definite push to shirk any liability or blame from the vaccine over onto the recipient of the vaccine. When the subject of the clinical trial is at a diminished capacity is it paramount to insulate the proponents of the vaccine from any liability pertaining to causation simply because they were not aware of the preexisting condition? 

The proponents are supposedly providing the clinical trials and publishing their findings and recommendations in journals and reports which are incomplete. A broad and sweeping all encompassing statement shielding any liability for adverse reactions from the proponents of the vaccine does not negate from the fact that had not the vaccine been administered the causative effects of an unknown prexisting condition would not have been triggered by the injection of the vaccine. 

I propose that if the vaccine had not ever been injected into the recipient of the vaccine then and only then could the proponents of these mass vaccinations say that they are not liable for the reaction in the recipient. Such is not the case here though. The proponents want access to subjects but demand immunity from liability when access is obtained. The avenue for access to human subjects is being obtained under what could be described as less than ethical or honorable conditions or perhaps clouded conditions for want of a better term. Either way, the present approach to obtaining subjects for experimental research is seriously flawed. 

Either provide living test subjects from the scientific community itself via volunteer scientists and laboratories to receive their own vaccines, serums and chemicals or cancel the program entirely. If the scientific community, big pharma and the associated proponents of this science don't have enough faith in their own drugs and programs to be themselves injected with their own drugs, why should the general unsuspecting public at large be forced to support this madness with their tax dollars and their lives? 

The whole nation is expected to provide these companies with themselves and their children as subjects for experimentation and the companies want and are demanding save harmless protection and total release from any liability from maiming, damage or death? Seems like a one sided proposition to me but I may be wrong.


Potential Conflicts of Interest in Testing, Promotion & Approval


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## eagleseven (Feb 28, 2010)

Pneumonia is the leading cause of child mortality in the world. 

This vaccine, if distributed around the world, will save approximately _1.8 million_ children per year.


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## RodISHI (Feb 28, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> Pneumonia is the leading cause of child mortality in the world.
> 
> This vaccine, if distributed around the world, will save approximately _1.8 million_ children per year.


You have a crystal ball?


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## eagleseven (Feb 28, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> eagleseven said:
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How many children do you know had polio?






This guy wasn't lucky enough to be vaccinated as a child.


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## Si modo (Feb 28, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> eagleseven said:
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Proof positive that you are not at all interested in having any serious conversation about vaccines.  You can't be bothered to even read a link from another.

You have your mind made up and you've based your own conclusion on emotional hyperbole and no science.


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## RodISHI (Mar 1, 2010)

eagleseven said:


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This has what to do with shooting healthy children up here in America with a Prevnar shot?


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## uscitizen (Mar 1, 2010)

Don't worry about it industry will regulate itself.


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## RodISHI (Mar 1, 2010)

Si modo said:


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Really and you have made your mind up based on what? I have not seen you add a lot to the conversation. Are you supporting shooting up every American child with a pneumonia shot so we can save the world? If so why? 




Si modo said:


> Yes, methyl mercury is a toxin.  So is water.
> 
> One word:  dose.


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## RodISHI (Mar 1, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> Don't worry about it industry will regulate itself.


Yes and serve itself too.


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## uscitizen (Mar 1, 2010)

Plus Bush made the vaccine manufacturers exempt from product liability, so what do we have to worry about.

I expect more treatments to appear in vaccine form in the future.


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## RodISHI (Mar 1, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> Plus Bush made the vaccine manufacturers exempt from product liability, so what do we have to worry about.
> 
> I expect more treatments to appear in vaccine form in the future.


Since taxpayers would be footing the bill for Mengele type treatments in the future, hell why not?



Angel of Death


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## AllieBaba (Mar 1, 2010)

Children in the US DO die of pnemonia, sepsis and meningitis.

Meningitis is quite common. My kids have a niece who had it at the age of 7. She missed 6 months of school, had to learn how to walk again. The kids' dad had spinal meningitis when he was a kid. 

Why wouldn't we vaccinate our kids if we have it available?


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## Ravi (Mar 1, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> Children in the US DO die of pnemonia, sepsis and meningitis.
> 
> Meningitis is quite common. My kids have a niece who had it at the age of 7. She missed 6 months of school, had to learn how to walk again. The kids' dad had spinal meningitis when he was a kid.
> 
> Why wouldn't we vaccinate our kids if we have it available?


Maybe Rod works for a hospital and in the interest of the bottom line for the hospital would rather see lots of sick kids being admitted. KACHING!


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## RodISHI (Mar 1, 2010)

AllieBaba said:


> Children in the US DO die of pnemonia, sepsis and meningitis.
> 
> Meningitis is quite common. My kids have a niece who had it at the age of 7. She missed 6 months of school, had to learn how to walk again. The kids' dad had spinal meningitis when he was a kid.
> 
> Why wouldn't we vaccinate our kids if we have it available?


I simply believe it needs to be an informed decision. The choice should be between you and your doctor not a government agency and a manufacturer. 

I also believe that money being the factor the medical community has lost much of its credibility and a portion of the ethical standards of conduct. My personal opinion based on what I have observed. My parents had never had pneumonia prior to receiving recommended vaccines for their age group over ten years ago. They now both suffer from pneumonia at least once usually twice every season now. These flu and pneumonia  vaccines for the entire population cannot make up for improved living conditions. For the billions of dollars spent we could improve living conditions of those who are effected by flu and pneumonia every year. That would far better serve the health and well being of the population IMO.

Prevnar does not cover all forms of pneumonia. 

Retired Vax Scientist Would Never Vaccinate His Kids - Vaccination News

Pneumococcal

Serious Lung Infections in Children Jump After Introduction of Pneumococcus Vaccine


A Critical Review of a New Childhood Vaccine


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## RodISHI (Mar 1, 2010)

Ravi said:


> AllieBaba said:
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Maybe you should have something to add verses slinging out idiotic accusations. I don't work. I do have some time to do some research into these matters though.


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## Ravi (Mar 1, 2010)

RodISHI said:


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Maybe you should go to school and learn HOW to conduct research...just looking at information and jumping to conclusions isn't research. A critical thinking course wouldn't hurt either.


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## RodISHI (Mar 1, 2010)

Ravi said:


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Why would I desire to go back to school? To earn a living? Rod owns his land and homestead, its paid for. Has been for over fifteen years. Critical thinking requires searching out every aspect of an issue. Which is exactly what I am doing. 

Do you have anything to offer to the OP concerning Prevnar?


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## Ravi (Mar 1, 2010)

RodISHI said:


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Yep...my first post on the thread, which apparently you are too stupid to grasp the point of...


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## Valerie (Mar 1, 2010)

Prevnar PCV7 (Pneumococcal Conjugate) Vaccine is already given as part of the routine pediatric schedule of vaccines.




Vaccines: VPD-VAC/Pneumo/PCV7 FAQs

http://aapredbook.aappublications.org/resources/IZSchedule0-6yrs.pdf


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## Valerie (Mar 1, 2010)

> *Q:  Does this vaccine contain mercury?
> 
> A:  No.
> *



Vaccines: VPD-VAC/Pneumo/PCV7 FAQs


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## Si modo (Mar 1, 2010)

RodISHI said:


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My post about dosage seems to have you short-circuiting.


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## jillian (Mar 1, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Ravi said:
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Does 'critical thinking' require that you give the same weight to hysteria and unsubstantiated propaganda and you do to scientific findings?

For thinking to be truly critical, one has to filter out the detritis ...


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## RodISHI (Mar 1, 2010)

jillian said:


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Jillian, I have to agree with you that the claims by some are certainly unsubstantiated. However, I'm having a bit of trouble with "unsubstantiated propaganda". If propaganda is unsubstantiated, can we say that it is propaganda? If propaganda is substantiated, can we say that it is merely propaganda? Since you and others for your cause have deemed me to be uninformed, uneducated and an idiot, then you surely must think I am too stupid to answer your question.

I suppose you will have to ask someone in the scientific community who shares your views and opinions and you therefore wholeheartedly trust to answer your question. That way you will be more assured of getting the responses and the answers that you desire.

I will share this with you Jillian; there are more and more scientists and doctors who it appears are stepping away from the money and are trying to address truth as they see it without their pursuit of money any longer being in the equation. Since these men and women are now coming forward and telling their side of the story, I have no reason to believe that what they are telling me about the gross misconduct and corruption in their industry is not true. The number of these professionals is growing very quickly. They are working to expose the truth about their industry at the risk of being black listed, disbarred, financially ruined and even some have been threatened with death. Should I dismiss their testimonials as unsubstantiated or propaganda or as you have stated "unsubstantiated propaganda"? You make the call Jillian. Don't ask me. That is the freedom you and we have. The freedom to make that choice. I don't believe that these men and women are all lying. Their claims are more credible to me as they are not talking out for monetary gain. Quite the contrary I would say.


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## Si modo (Mar 1, 2010)

RodISHI said:


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Stories are no science, Ro.


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## Ravi (Mar 1, 2010)

Is Rod a troofer? I'd be surprised to find that she wasn't...the same tendency to believe and give credibility to confused people.


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## geauxtohell (Mar 1, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> eagleseven said:
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If that was a serious question, this issue is way over your head.

Look up the incidence of polio in the United States in the 50's versus right now.  Make sure to click on the pictures of the kids in their iron lungs.

And then ask yourself why there is a difference now.


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## eagleseven (Mar 1, 2010)

geauxtohell said:


> If that was a serious question, this issue is way over your head.
> 
> Look up the incidence of polio in the United States in the 50's versus right now.  Make sure to click on the pictures of the kids in their iron lungs.
> 
> And then ask yourself why there is a difference now.


Allow me...





The Polio Ward of an American hospital, filled with children.





Here is one of the individual units in Boston Children's Hospital.


Thanks to the polio vaccine, these wards are a thing of the past.


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## RodISHI (Mar 1, 2010)

Ravi said:


> RodISHI said:
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geauxtohell said:


> RodISHI said:
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What class of disease is Polio?

What class of disease is Pneumonia?

What causes Polio?

What causes Pneumonia?

Can Polio turn into Pneumonia? Will Pneumonia, if I get it, turn into Polio?



Or is the Polio, Flu and Pneumonia differences over your head? I take it you also did not read the report that I linked for Prevnar from the CDC. Did you read the Pneumonia vaccine or the death reports I linked from 2006 from the CDC? These CDC reports reflect how many children and adults in the United States actually died from all disease types, accidents or other causes and the initial study cases that were used to justify Prevnar.

Now, I am asking again, who out there among the professionals which evidently omits myself and many others, can draw the conclusion that because of these studies and their associated reports Prevnar should now be our drug of choice? Ten years from now if it's not Prevnar, what's it going to be? The only way to accurately and truthfully say in a projection that you've saved X amount of lives is to track and document each and every single child from birth to grave. Anything less than that throws a big wrench into the drug justification machine. Eagle says 1.8 million lives will be saved around the world. I guess he can see far into the future. 

I wonder how many of that 1.8 will die in an earthquake like Haiti or some mudslide in Guatemala, a tsunami like in the Indian Ocean. Now if Polio did not kill them and the tsunami did then Eagle's projection is flawed. Using a figure of 1.8 million being saved by FDA is a stretch. It is a stretch in anyone's imagination because these people are dying in the hundreds of thousands from natural disasters that cannot be controlled by drugs. 

But not to fear, I'm sure Eagle and all of his believing cohorts will soon come up with a drug which will proclaim it denies death its victory over all in the world. All they need is more money to study it and a fool of a taxpayer to finance it. Maybe Pfizer will consider donating these $45.00 shots to that 1.8 million around the world who Eagle says will not live without them. 

These people of that 1.8 million figure would have to be removed from his projected figures if we are not skewing projections. Once we get just the figures for the American public we would have to get back to the base figures. Pfizer and CDC and the FDA are trying to justify shooting up every child in America with a shot for a few types of Pneumonia that are not all that life threatening. 

Can you tell me the corrected and adjusted figures? Any figures used to read into the future aren't too reliable since we don't have the science to predict the exact date of a future earthquake, volcano, tsunami or how many people will die in these disasters. It may be that some are willing to take a chance on these Pneumonia shots with their own children but not all are willing to do the same especially when they are aware of what others have suffered from these type shots. Maybe they would rather take a chance on an earthquake, volcano or tsunami. If so that is their right. It is a fucking free country still and we have a choice.


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## eagleseven (Mar 1, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> What causes Polio?


A virus.



RodISHI said:


> What causes Pneumonia?


A bacterium.



> Can Polio turn into Pneumonia? Will Pneumonia, if I get it, turn into Polio?


No, but both can kill a child.




RodISHI said:


> Now, I am asking again, who out there among the professionals which evidently omits myself and many others, can draw the conclusion that because of these studies and their associated reports Prevnar should now be our drug of choice? Ten years from now if it's not Prevnar, what's it going to be?


_Drug of choice?_ Are you unaware that children in America are given a large battery of vaccines throughout their development? This is primarily why infant and child mortality remains ahistorically low.



RodISHI said:


> The only way to accurately and truthfully say in a projection that you've saved X amount of lives is to track and document each and every single child from birth to grave. Anything less than that throws a big wrench into the drug justification machine. Eagle says 1.8 million lives will be saved around the world. I guess he can see far into the future.


No, I just see 1.8 million children needlessly dying per year of pneumonia infections.



RodISHI said:


> I wonder how many of that 1.8 will die in an earthquake like Haiti or some mudslide in Guatemala, a tsunami like in the Indian Ocean. Now if Polio did not kill them and the tsunami did then Eagle's projection is flawed. Using a figure of 1.8 million being saved by FDA is a stretch. It is a stretch in anyone's imagination because these people are dying in the hundreds of thousands from natural disasters that cannot be controlled by drugs.


So, by your logic, we should ban all medicine because we're all going to die anyways?



RodISHI said:


> But not to fear, I'm sure Eagle and all of his believing cohorts will soon come up with a drug which will proclaim it denies death its victory over all in the world. All they need is more money to study it and a fool of a taxpayer to finance it. Maybe Pfizer will consider donating these $45.00 shots to that 1.8 million around the world who Eagle says will not live without them.


If you want to die young, don't let met stop you.



RodISHI said:


> These people of that 1.8 million figure would have to be removed from his projected figures if we are not skewing projections. Once we get just the figures for the American public we would have to get back to the base figures. Pfizer and CDC and the FDA are trying to justify shooting up every child in America with a shot for a few types of Pneumonia that are not all that life threatening.
> 
> Can you tell me the corrected and adjusted figures? Any figures used to read into the future aren't too reliable since we don't have the science to predict the exact date of a future earthquake, volcano, tsunami or how many people will die in these disasters. It may be that some are willing to take a chance on these Pneumonia shots with their own children but not all are willing to do the same especially when they are aware of what others have suffered from these type shots. Maybe they would rather take a chance on an earthquake, volcano or tsunami. If so that is their right. It is a fucking free country still and we have a choice.


It's pretty simple. 1.8 million children are dying of preventable pneumonia infections per year.

I want to prevent those children from dying young, and you don't give a damn as long as you're healthy.


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## RodISHI (Mar 3, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
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Pneumonia can be viral, bacterial and there are fungal types of pneumonia. There are dozens of these which are variations of these three. This is nothing new. What is new is the Clostridia difficile cases have dramatically increased with the introduction of the very types of injections you insist on giving to children. Why do you insist on killing the natural bacteria that boosts a child's natural immune system? When a child is born they do not possess a fully functional and strong immune system. This is developed naturally and without your help. Your insistence on vaccinating these children at birth puts them at a much greater risk. Not only in childhood but also later in their lives. I guess that could work out. Its kind of like job security or profit building isn't it?



			
				eagleseven said:
			
		

> _Drug of choice?_ Are you unaware that children in America are given a large battery of vaccines throughout their development? This is primarily why infant and child mortality remains ahistorically low.


 You made my point. What are all of the adverse reactions to the battery of vaccines that these babes are given? How many babes suffer life long adverse effects from some of these vaccines that they are given? 




			
				eagleseven said:
			
		

> No, I just see 1.8 million children needlessly dying per year of pneumonia infections.


 You keep saying 1.8 million children. 

In only the United States how many people contracted Pneumonia and died from it during 2002 through 2007? And how many of those were children?
You can use these three government links as I did if you like.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr58/nvsr58_01.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr47/nvs47_03.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr53/nvsr53_05acc.pdf



			
				eagleseven said:
			
		

> So, by your logic, we should ban all medicine because we're all going to die anyways?


 You can be as ignorant as you want. I think you know better than that.




			
				eagelseven said:
			
		

> If you want to die young, don't let met stop you.


I won't I'm already on the downhill side of life now. Dying does not bother me it's never been something I feared. It's quite natural really. What's the matter you want to live forever?





			
				eagleseven said:
			
		

> It's pretty simple. 1.8 million children are dying of preventable pneumonia infections per year.


 Again you fail to say if this is a figure for the world over or if you are claiming this as a figure for the United States. Or did you just pull this figure out of a hat? Where did all these 1.8 million children die per year? 



			
				eagleseven said:
			
		

> I want to prevent those children from dying young, and you don't give a damn as long as you're healthy.


Then move over to those countries where those 1.8 million children you claim are dying every year and take care of them. Clean up their water, get them out of the landfills, make sure they get a proper diet, teach them proper hygiene but most of all stop weakening their undeveloped immune systems with chemicals.


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## RetiredGySgt (Mar 3, 2010)

Provide evidence that vaccinating young children causes them to die. You are beyond stupid. The reality is that those vaccinations PREVENT death and crippling illnesses. And the REALITY is when RETARDS like you refuse to use them and convince gullible parents to not use them more children die or get those illnesses.


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## strollingbones (Mar 3, 2010)

a while ago i began to get walking pnemonia about yearly....i took the vaccine...havent had it since....i have no side effects from the shot and i only take it once every 8 or so years...it has stopped the infections and the scarring...a win win for me....


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## Si modo (Mar 3, 2010)

RodISHI said:


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Honestly, I can't tell if you are misinformed or if your motivation is disinformation.  If the former, you can stop because you've demonstrated how misinformed you are.  If the latter, you're being dishonest.

At the moment, I can't think of any other reason one would see such continued drivel.


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## RodISHI (Mar 3, 2010)

> Excerpts:
> The New Pneumonia Jab
> 
> PREVNAR VACCINE (FOR PNEUMONIA AND PNEUMOCOCCAL MENINGITIS)
> ...







> Summary:
> A response by Shabir A. Madhi, Orin S. Levine and Thomas Cherian to a letter to the editor that claims the assertion that pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (PCV) does not reduce severe pneumonia or reduce mortality in the Gambia.




Viva La France! It took them almost ten years to get a conviction on Soros for his fraud. I wonder how long before this one in finalized.



> Action Against The Guilty In Vaccine Trial Death








This little girl is suffering from Eczema Vaccinatum, which is a severe eczema caused by vaccination. 





This boy had progressive vaccinia, a massive flesh eating infection caused by vaccination. He had been immuno compromised prior to his shot and unfortunately he died as a result of his injuries.

Source: [from Fenner F., Henderson DA, et al. Smallpox and its Eradication. WHO. 1988] 

More vaccine injury photographs. 


Ironically Kaiser Permanent is where the Prevnar test where done also. 


> Keidi Obi Awadu
> (1996)  From 1989 to 1991, Kaiser Permanent along with the L.A. County Department of Health and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), injected over 700 mostly minority babies with unlicensed experimental vaccines with fraudulently-obtained consent from the parents. One of the vaccines used, Edmonston-Zagreb high-titer, had already obtained a notorious reputation overseas for killing almost one out of every 13 babies in closely controlled studies in the Third World.








High dose Edmonston Zagreb (EZ) measles vaccine



> *In the 1980s, the World Health Organization declared measles a life-threatening illness in Third World countries. *To lower infant mortality rates, they recommended that the high-titer EZ measles vaccine be used on infants younger than 15 months old. Not only did the experiment prove ineffective, it had disastrous consequences. Says Prost: In 1987, four large studies  . using the very-high-titer EZ measles vaccine were sponsored by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), Johns Hopkins University, and their Department of International Health. These studies used concentrations of the EZ vaccine in doses 10 to 500 times the standard in babies as young as four months old. Studies were done in Haiti, Senegal, Mexico, and Guinea-Bissau.   Prost refers to this incident as a huge, silent disaster for Third World countries and inner city USA. Had the experiment not been stopped  largely through the efforts of one person  consequences would have been far worse, as deaths were not clearly associated with the vaccine. She elaborates:  It is very unlikely that any of those deaths would ever have been linked to the vaccine, since deaths were delayed. They didnt begin until six months after vaccination and they continued up until four years after vaccination. Additionally, the deaths were not from measles. Babies died of infections, diarrhea, malnutrition, and all the other things that Third World babies usually die of, because what the vaccine did in some babies, particularly girls, was cause a broad immunosuppression Its important to point out that, at least in Haiti, the study was done on a population that included a number of HIV-positive infants. So there were children given this very-high-dose vaccine who were already known to be immunocompromised.



History shows the poor or disenfranchised are the first to be used in these studies to approve drugs before these are unleashed on the public at large.

Orphans experimented on without consent. Selected human guinea pigs.
Australian orphans were used as guinea pigs -- Zinn 314 (7097): 1781 -- BMJ
Shame of children used in experiments on Aids



> State Sanctioned Abuse of Children
> 
> From the cradle to the grave
> By John Murray - posted Tuesday, 14 August 2007
> ...


 Cradle to grave big pharm owns you.



> Guinea Pig Kids - 'Aids Denial' and Human Experiments
> Categories
> Health
> Society
> ...



*Its unethical to recommend a vaccine which hasnt even received the usual minimal safety testing let alone long term testing.*

Vaccination: The Basics



> Excerpt: Pneumococcal Disease Vaccine
> 
> 
> A March, 2008 B.C. study, published in the Canadian Respiratory Journal, analyzed hospital data from the Canadian Institute for Health Information which showed that the rate of empyema, a little-known but potentially fatal lung infection, had increased 30% overall between 1995 and 2003. Although the disease mainly afflicts the elderly, a distressing finding was that the numbers had doubled in patients under 19, and increased more than 450% in one-to-four year olds. Head researcher, Dr. Christian Finley and his team suggested that pressure from Prevnar® pneumococcal vaccine had increased pneumococcus serotype 1, which is not included in the vaccine and is the most common cause of the empyema. They said there may have also been an even greater shift from a prevalence of pneumococci to one of Staphylococcus or E coli bacteria. The pus that forms around the lungs of empyema patients must sometimes be removed via chest surgery; on average, they spend three weeks in hospital.


----------



## uscitizen (Mar 3, 2010)

And all that is why we made vaccines exempt from product liability laws.


----------



## Ravi (Mar 3, 2010)

*Eczema vaccinatum* is a rare severe adverse reaction to smallpox vaccination.

You really are stupid.


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 3, 2010)

Enjoy the storm Ravi.


----------



## eagleseven (Mar 3, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Pneumonia can be viral, bacterial and there are fungal types of pneumonia.


This is the only true statement in your entire post.



RodISHI said:


> There are dozens of these which are variations of these three. This is nothing new. What is new is the Clostridia difficile cases have dramatically increased with the introduction of the very types of injections you insist on giving to children. Why do you insist on killing the natural bacteria that boosts a child's natural immune system?


Vaccines don't kill bacteria, stupid.



RodISHI said:


> When a child is born they do not possess a fully functional and strong immune system. This is developed naturally and without your help. Your insistence on vaccinating these children at birth puts them at a much greater risk. Not only in childhood but also later in their lives. I guess that could work out. Its kind of like job security or profit building isn't it?


Take a course in basic immunology, and get back to me.



RodISHI said:


> You made my point. What are all of the adverse reactions to the battery of vaccines that these babes are given? How many babes suffer life long adverse effects from some of these vaccines that they are given?












RodISHI said:


> You keep saying 1.8 million children.


Yes, 1.8 million children die each year from pneumonia.



RodISHI said:


> In only the United States how many people contracted Pneumonia and died from it during 2002 through 2007? And how many of those were children?
> You can use these three government links as I did if you like.
> You can be as ignorant as you want. I think you know better than that.


The world is larger than just the United States.



RodISHI said:


> I won't I'm already on the downhill side of life now. Dying does not bother me it's never been something I feared. It's quite natural really. What's the matter you want to live forever?


Tell that to young victims of pneumonia you're abandoning.




RodISHI said:


> Again you fail to say if this is a figure for the world over or if you are claiming this as a figure for the United States. Or did you just pull this figure out of a hat? Where did all these 1.8 million children die per year?


My link in the first page of this thread was clear. I suggest you read it.



RodISHI said:


> eagleseven said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm a microbiologist, not a god.



RodISHI said:


> but most of all stop weakening their undeveloped immune systems with chemicals.


But _you_ are here to save them from the chemical boogyman.


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 3, 2010)

strollingbones said:


> a while ago i began to get walking pnemonia about yearly....i took the vaccine...havent had it since....i have no side effects from the shot and i only take it once every 8 or so years...it has stopped the infections and the scarring...a win win for me....





eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Pneumonia can be viral, bacterial and there are fungal types of pneumonia.
> ...



You might want to cross train into something besides microbiology. It would appear from what I am getting from some of the big insiders that they intend to take the money out of this dirty little industry. Just sayin' you might want to.


----------



## eagleseven (Mar 3, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> You might want to cross train into something besides microbiology. It would appear from what I am getting from some of the big insiders that they intend to take the money out of this dirty little industry. Just sayin' you might want to.


You have no argument, only ignorance.


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 3, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > You might want to cross train into something besides microbiology. It would appear from what I am getting from some of the big insiders that they intend to take the money out of this dirty little industry. Just sayin' you might want to.
> ...


Why argue with someone who is willing to say anything to protect his own ass and livelihood. 

For those who care to know some of the history that mr. eagleseven here wishes to regulate via fear mongering about Polio here is an excellent link.


> Poliomyelitis - Iron Lungs, What Is Poliomyelitis?, Signs and Symptoms, Polio in history, How Do People Know If They Have Polio?, Fdr and polio
> 
> What Is Poliomyelitis?
> 
> Polio is an infection caused when a person swallows water or food contaminated with poliovirus. Poliovirus particles are found in feces, and the virus can be spread when people touch contaminated objects and then put their fingers in their mouths or handle food. It is not spread by coughing or sneezing. Once inside the body, the virus multiplies in the throat and intestines. It then either passes harmlessly from the gut or travels in the blood to all parts of the body. In a very small number of people, about 1 to 2 percent, the virus invades the central nervous system, that is, the brain and spinal cord, where it can cause paralysis. Depending on where the virus goes in the spinal cord, a person may also have difficulty breathing, talking, or swallowing.



For more information on the Pneumococcal Disease Vaccine pitfalls this is an interesting article. Pneumococcal Disease Vaccine - Specific Vaccines - About Vaccines - Vaccination Risk Awareness Network


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## eagleseven (Mar 3, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Why argue with someone who is willing to say anything to protect his own ass and livelihood.


Why argue with someone who has an elementary understanding of disease, at best?



RodISHI said:


> For those who care to know some of the history that mr. eagleseven here wishes to regulate via fear mongering about Polio here is an excellent link.


_You_ are accusing me of _fear-mongering_?


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 3, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Why argue with someone who is willing to say anything to protect his own ass and livelihood.
> ...



There you have it. Why try to skew your own views in a thread claiming the world's children are all the responsibility of American taxpayers? 

Don't stick shitty fingers in your mouth. Don't drink shitty water. Rocket science technology.


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## eagleseven (Mar 3, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> There you have it. Why try to skew your own views in a thread claiming the world's children are all the responsibility of American taxpayers?


You started this thread.



RodISHI said:


> Don't stick shitty fingers in your mouth. Don't drink shitty water. Rocket science technology.


Are you saying that in the 1950s, during the last Polio epidemic, Americans played with their feces?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od4DPR3lySE]YouTube - Leave It To Beaver[/ame]

Gee, thank you Dr. Schlotkin!


----------



## Si modo (Mar 3, 2010)

Summary of thread:  
Ro:  Bad chemicals, bad, bad, bad.  
Others:  No, Ro.  Let me take the time and effort to show you how it works.

Ro:  Bad science, bad, bad, bad.
Others:


----------



## geauxtohell (Mar 3, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> What class of disease is Polio?



It's viral.



> What class of disease is Pneumonia?
> 
> What causes Polio?
> 
> What causes Pneumonia?



It can be viral, bacterial, or fungal.  In many instances, it's viral and bacterial.  



> Can Polio turn into Pneumonia? Will Pneumonia, if I get it, turn into Polio?



No.  What is your point?  Are you suggesting that mortality is insignificant in bacterial illnesses or pneumonia?  If so, you have rocks in your head.   



> Or is the Polio, Flu and Pneumonia differences over your head?



Obviously not.  The point I made about the net benefit of vaccines obviously went over yours, though.

Go talk to a pediatrician and ask them why Haemophilus influenzae B is not the most feared bug in neonates anymore.



> The only way to accurately and truthfully say in a projection that you've saved X amount of lives is to track and document each and every single child from birth to grave. Anything less than that throws a big wrench into the drug justification machine. Eagle says 1.8 million lives will be saved around the world. I guess he can see far into the future.



Are you actually suggesting that we can't adequately track biostatistics to make these conclusions? 

Absurd.  



> ....few types of Pneumonia that are not all that life threatening.



Are you f'ing kidding me?



> About 30% of personal health care expenditures in the United States go towards hospital care, and the rate of growth in spending for hospital services has only recently leveled out after several years of increases following a half a decade of declining growth. Simultaneously, concerns about the quality of health care services have reached a crescendo with the Institute of Medicine's series of reports describing the problem of medical errors and the need for a complete restructuring of the health care system to improve the quality of care. Policymakers, employers, and consumers have made the quality of care in U.S. hospitals a top priority and have voiced the need to assess, monitor, track, and improve the quality of inpatient care.
> 
> Treatment with appropriate antibiotics may reduce mortality from pneumonia, which is a leading cause of death in the United States. Inappropriate treatment for pneumonia may increase mortality.



Pneumonia: mortality rate. 



> If so that is their right. It is a fucking free country still and we have a choice.



Nobody is forcing you to get a pneumonia shot.  You can just suck off the herd immunity of those who do.


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## RodISHI (Mar 3, 2010)

geauxtohell said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > What class of disease is Polio?
> ...



Yes I see the herd mentality, go for it. Mehh..mehhhh. I prefer Baa...baa.

Your chart gives percentages but not actual deaths nor the breakdowns of each category in America for age of the children or the adults. Typical of most of those skewed figures that lead the goat herd to the slaughter house of big pharm. Your right we still have a choice and I pray enough people stand the balance when big pharm attempts to take that choice away.


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 3, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > There you have it. Why try to skew your own views in a thread claiming the world's children are all the responsibility of American taxpayers?
> ...



Sure man made disasters loomed during the 50's and 60's. Still going on today.



> Ukraine and World Pneumonic Plague Information: Kill the H1N1 vaccine? Russia threatens to WHO 12/05/09 6:46pm
> Kill the H1N1 vaccine? Russia threatens to WHO
> 
> Awesome - Russia is now Looking at WHO closer! Could they start busting the whole organization Wide Opened?! Or is that just wishful thinking on my part?
> ...




A bit of history of man made vaccines and epidemics.
Vaccines and Epidemics
http://ynpxtpnb.apollohosting.com/ddponline.org/epidemics.pdf


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## eagleseven (Mar 3, 2010)

Finding a magazine article written in German does not enhance your credibility, fyi.


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## Si modo (Mar 4, 2010)

I can no longer find the wheat among the chaff.  What point does Ro want to make?  With all of the anti-chemistry threads lately, and with all of the cut-'n'-paste spam of random items that are not even tangential, I really have no idea.


----------



## eagleseven (Mar 4, 2010)

Si modo said:


> I can no longer find the wheat among the chaff.  What point does Ro want to make?  With all of the anti-chemistry threads lately, and with all of the cut-'n'-paste spam of random items that are not even tangential, I really have no idea.


I think she's off her meds, honestly.


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 4, 2010)

You guys live in denial. For whatever reasons there yours. You own it.

Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System
Yep vaccines reporting hits Prevnar and unknown pneumonia vaccines pretty heavy. Hell of a lot of seizures reported with Prevnar and unknown pneumonia vaccines. I doubt you guy's will take the time to download those reports as it is so much easier for y'all to make baseless bullshit claims. 




> The Prevnar vaccine has been linked to hundreds of deaths and otehr serious aide effects. Are they all coincidental?
> 
> Prevnar vaccine dangers
> 
> ...


----------



## Si modo (Mar 4, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> You guys live in denial. For whatever reasons there yours. You own it.


Stop the projecting bullshit.

I ask a simple question - 'What is your point?' - and you are still non-responsive.  Not only that, you attack.  Two sure signs of not only a weak argument, but a reflection on your being a dishonest broker in discussion.


----------



## eagleseven (Mar 4, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> > The Prevnar vaccine has been linked to hundreds of deaths and otehr serious aide effects. Are they all coincidental?


You take life-and-death medical advice from a _photographer?_



RodISHI said:


> * an increase in the incidence of pneumonia caused by bacteria NOT covered by these vaccines


Naturally.



RodISHI said:


> * an increase in middle-ear infections due to bacteria not linked to pneumonia


This has _what_ to do with the price of tea in China?



RodISHI said:


> * the emergence of "superbugs" that are resistant to vaccines.


Antibiotics create superbugs by selecting for resistance, not vaccines. This is why you need to study basic immunology.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Mar 4, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> Finding a magazine article written in German does not enhance your credibility, fyi.





it was a bilingual bullshit article.


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## Ravi (Mar 4, 2010)

Si modo said:


> I can no longer find the wheat among the chaff.  *What point does Ro want to make?*  With all of the anti-chemistry threads lately, and with all of the cut-'n'-paste spam of random items that are not even tangential, I really have no idea.


Viruses and bacterial infections are harmless and 99.99% of people would get no sicker than a mild cold if they caught one. Scientists are evil people in cahoots with big business and are trying to kill us all with these mysterious shots full of poison.

At least that's what I'm getting out of her nonsense.


----------



## Si modo (Mar 4, 2010)

Ravi said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > I can no longer find the wheat among the chaff.  *What point does Ro want to make?*  With all of the anti-chemistry threads lately, and with all of the cut-'n'-paste spam of random items that are not even tangential, I really have no idea.
> ...


Damn.  I was getting that same impression but was hoping I was wrong.

That's whacked.


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 4, 2010)

Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > You guys live in denial. For whatever reasons there yours. You own it.
> ...


Talk about dishonest and attacking look in the mirror.

What exactly have you offered to the discussion other than your own conjecture? 

The questions are still,  "How many actual children die in the United States from Pneumonia per year?" Either you are refusing to answer this question or you do not know the answer. If you don't know the answer why don't you just say "I don't know"?

"How many limited cases in children have died from Pneumonia in the United States that Prevnar would definitely and without a doubt have prevented?"  If you do not have the answer it is alright to admit that you do not know.

Not one of you has made a credible attempt to reply to any of these questions. 
You can call me names, say that I'm stupid, misinformed and insult me until the sun goes down. What it appears that you can't do is answer these questions.


----------



## geauxtohell (Mar 4, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Your chart gives percentages but not actual deaths nor the breakdowns of each category in America for age of the children or the adults. Typical of most of those skewed figures that lead the goat herd to the slaughter house of big pharm. Your right we still have a choice and I pray enough people stand the balance when big pharm attempts to take that choice away.



If you claim that pneumonia is not a huge mortality factor in elderly and children's population, you've just lost whatever credibility you had on this issue.

The pneumovax covers for a certain amount of the 23 strains of Streptococcus pneumoniae.  I think it's in the teens.  I fail to see the problem with expanding it to cover more strains.

Futhermore, since S. pneumo is the leading cause behind neonatal meningitis, it's offering some coverage their as well.

At any rate, go ahead and bash "big pharma" and their evil conspiracy.  You'll continue to look silly, but far be it from me to argue with your paranoia.


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## geauxtohell (Mar 4, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> Naturally.



You mean the pneumococcal vaccine won't cover pneumonia caused by non-pneumococcal sources?

What the hell?  The next thing you'll be telling me is that it won't protect against the flu too!


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 4, 2010)

geauxtohell said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Your chart gives percentages but not actual deaths nor the breakdowns of each category in America for age of the children or the adults. Typical of most of those skewed figures that lead the goat herd to the slaughter house of big pharm. Your right we still have a choice and I pray enough people stand the balance when big pharm attempts to take that choice away.
> ...


I do not have the information to make that claim. I have yet to see any information from you or any others on this board which will positively without a doubt substantiate your claim that "pneumonia is a huge mortality factor in elderly and children." When you state that it is you are raising it above any other factors and cases whether they be related or not. Therefore I have asked for you or any other to provide information which will unequivocally show that it is. So far, I have found a wide disagreement in your own profession which states otherwise.

I am looking for the actual numbers of children that died from Pneumonia which do not appear to be readily available without going through thousands upon thousands of documents. It would be nice to be able to look at all of the adverse effects for each vaccine in one place. I have not found that place yet. If you know where these actual numbers are at, let me know. Please.

I provided one particular link that I did find in which an individual and not a contracted think tank took the time to put some numbers out concerning adverse reactions to Prevnar. Eagleseven got all bent about this.  

Online at the FDA website I downloaded the submission that was provided by Wyeth for Prevnar. Reading this initial application which was also used in the FDA approval for the Prevnar 13 product that is now put out by Pfizer it appears that within one year 23 infants died. This is 23 infants out of 109 that were studied in that particular clinical trial. The doctor who prepared this report in question denied these deaths were all related to the clinical trial for Prevnar and it's competitors. This one particular study was done with competing producers for the same type vaccine. One word here. COMPETITION. Maybe that does not seem like something worth looking into for you but it raises question in my mind. In looking at more information I am finding highly conflicting reports. That raises even more suspicion for me. If it does not in your mind Geauxtohell that is okay. 

My thoughts are that many of these biochemists and scientists surely did not all study at the same university at the same time. Therefore, I can understand the wide variations in their data collection and their differences of opinion. What I don't understand is that the differences of opinion are not relegated to one geographical area or university. This is a worldwide mess with worldwide differences of opinions between world renowned scientists. 

If, as many on this board would have me to believe that since I am not involved I must be an idiot. Since I'm not "one of them" therefore, I'm too stupid to have an opinion or even have the right to question their worldwide arguments. Say what you want and beat the drum to your own tune but when it comes time for you all who disagree and yet are so highly educated and cannot agree on anything don't come to me for money to feed your disagreement. 

When there are so many babies that are suffering and a common denominator is a particular vaccine and the money required to produce it, I would hope more people would take a damn good look at what is happening to these babies! This destruction of children for the sake of saying I am right and you are wrong is immoral. This ain't some checker game or card game that you are playing. Billions of dollars going into science when science cannot give children the basic needs of life. Clean food, clean water and clean air. As eagle said, "I'm a microbiologist, not god". I could not agree with him more.


----------



## eagleseven (Mar 4, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> I am looking for the actual numbers of children that died from Pneumonia which do not appear to be readily available without going through thousands upon thousands of documents. It would be nice to be able to look at all of the adverse effects for each vaccine in one place. I have not found that place yet. If you know where these actual numbers are at, let me know. Please.


Right here

Pneumonia accounts for 20% of childhood deaths worldwide. This took me _one_ google search.



RodISHI said:


> If, as many on this board would have me to believe that since I am not involved I must be an idiot. Since I'm not "one of them" therefore, I'm too stupid to have an opinion or even have the right to question their worldwide arguments. Say what you want and beat the drum to your own tune but when it comes time for you all who disagree and yet are so highly educated and cannot agree on anything don't come to me for money to feed your disagreement.


When you make statements like _"Vaccines kill bacteria"_ and_ "Vaccines generate superbugs,"_ you prove yourself an idiot.

No scientist is still arguing that the moon is made of cheese, no matter what opinions you might hold.


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 4, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > I am looking for the actual numbers of children that died from Pneumonia which do not appear to be readily available without going through thousands upon thousands of documents. It would be nice to be able to look at all of the adverse effects for each vaccine in one place. I have not found that place yet. If you know where these actual numbers are at, let me know. Please.
> ...


Look I have asked you over and over again where are the statistics for the UNITED STATES. You own link says "NO DATA AVAILABLE" for the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Take your WHO and stick it up your ass. 

Where is the data excluding any and every other country in the world except the United States which proves your point about how safe Prevnar is? If you have this data fine, if you don't fuck off.

Like I told you, you want American taxpayers, American businesses, American everything to support your fucking games on a worldwide basis. I am telling you for the last fucking time, you want money, then prove you deserve it! Give me the stats for the US or shut the fuck up.


----------



## Valerie (Mar 4, 2010)

Valerie said:


> > *Q:  Does this vaccine contain mercury?
> >
> > A:  No.
> > *
> ...






Here you go Rodishi....Ask the experts!


Ask the Experts: Pneumococcal conjugate (PCV)


----------



## eagleseven (Mar 4, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> eagleseven said:
> 
> 
> > Right here
> ...


Pneumonia is the sixth-eighth (depending upon year) leading cause of death in America, killing approximately 55,000 Americans per year.


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## RodISHI (Mar 4, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > eagleseven said:
> ...



No statistics on that article link.


----------



## eagleseven (Mar 4, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Eagleseven said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Served


----------



## geauxtohell (Mar 4, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Eagleseven said:
> ...



Well, when the facts don't support your position, just ignore them......


----------



## Si modo (Mar 4, 2010)

It looks like Ro is a new type of troofer.

Sad, really.

As with all troofers, I have no patience with the willfully blind.

*F*


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 4, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Eagleseven said:
> ...


Finally a little truth. How refreshing.

On the link that you provided the statistics for the year 2006 as stated in the CDC report for 113 selected causes of death I found the following.

Pneumonia and Influenza are both listed together and then again separately in this report. 

85 year olds in the year 2006 in the United States 26,245 died of Pneumonia, 372 died of Influenza.

75-84 year olds in 2006 in the United States of America died of 16,432 Pneumonia, 236 died of Influenza. 

65-74 year olds in 2006 in the United States of America 5,980 died of Pneumonia, 81 died of Influenza.

55-64 year olds in 2006 in the United States of America 3,111 died of Pneumonia, 43 died of Influenza.

45-54 year olds in 2006 in the United States of America 1,981 died of Pneumonia, 26 died of Influenza.

35-44 year olds in 2006 in the United States of America 831 died of Pneumonia, 10 died of Influenza.

25-34 year olds in 2006 in the United States of America 329 died of Pneumonia, 6 died of Influenza.

15-24 year olds in 2006 in the United States of America 171 died of Pneumonia, 13 died of Influenza.

5-14 year olds in 2006 in the United States of America 43 died of Pneumonia, 25 died of Influenza.

1-4 year olds in 2006 in the United States of America 106 died of Pneumonia, 19 died of Influenza.

Under 1 year in 2006 in the United States of America 245 died of Pneumonia, 18 died of Influenza.


*Of that 56,326 people that died of Pneumonia and Influenza in 2006* in the United States of America *48,657 of these that died of Pneumonia and 689 that died of Influenza were 65 years of age or older *in this report. I can't vouch for the accuracy in this report. However, I will accept it until another comes along to refute it. These figures aren't close to the 1.8 million you began to shove at the beginning of this thread. The American people can accept and should be provided the truth. It is apparent by your own link that scare tactics play a part in big pharma's desire to float their boat with cash from American taxpayers. If private donors want to remain anonymous by giving monetary gifts in support of research I do not have one problem with that. However, if the research community is hell bent on paying the bill for research on the backs of the American people a little bit of truth and integrity will take them farther than lies and fear mongering. Are we clear on this?


----------



## eagleseven (Mar 5, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> These figures aren't close to the 1.8 million you began to shove at the beginning of this thread.


Not once did I claim that 1.8 million Americans were dying of Pneumonia per year. If you had read my original link, you would have realized this.



RodISHI said:


> The American people can accept and should be provided the truth. It is apparent by your own link that scare tactics play a part in big pharma's desire to float their boat with cash from American taxpayers. If private donors want to remain anonymous by giving monetary gifts in support of research I do not have one problem with that. However, if the research community is hell bent on paying the bill for research on the backs of the American people a little bit of truth and integrity will take them farther than lies and fear mongering. Are we clear on this?


Prevnar is _Wyeth Co's_ most popular product. With sales in over 72 countries, Prevnar has been a net benefit to the American economy, more than recouping the cost of development.

Why are so many countries purchasing Prevnar? Because it is far cheaper to vaccinate everyone against Pneumonia, then it is to purchase multiple antibiotic treatments for the victims. Furthermore, traditional expensive antibiotic treatments can generate superbugs, while the cost-efficient Prevnar does not.

Prevnar has put Americans to work, growing the US economy, while saving lives and saving developing nations money. It's a win-win for everyone involved.


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## Ravi (Mar 5, 2010)

Ravi said:


> Despite the name, the organism causes many types of pneumococcal infection other than pneumonia, including acute sinusitis, otitis media, meningitis, bacteremia, sepsis, osteomyelitis, septic arthritis, endocarditis, peritonitis, pericarditis, cellulitis, and brain abscess.
> 
> _S. pneumoniae_ is the most common cause of bacterial meningitis in adults and children, and is one of the top two isolates found in ear infection, otitis media.[2] Pneumococcal pneumonia is more common in the very young and the very old.
> 
> ...


I'm reprinting this again because apparently rod is too stupid for words. She can't even understand that this vaccine doesn't just protect against common pneumonia. 

Given a choice to vaccinate my kids against meningitis it would be immoral for me to refuse, imo. And I would happily have had them skip all the ear infections.

If you ever have kids, rod, you are free to not have them vaccinated. For the safety of the general population you should keep them away from others.


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## Mr.Fitnah (Mar 5, 2010)

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/107850-bill-gates-wants-to-cure-you-to-death.html


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## RodISHI (Mar 5, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > These figures aren't close to the 1.8 million you began to shove at the beginning of this thread.
> ...



I want to thank you for making my point for me. I can understand your need to use a whopping figure like 1.8 million worldwide to beat us over the head with. Your link, while it did take a bit of work for me to get you to post it, clearly reveals that less than 400 children in AMERICA are actually dying from pneumonia from the 2006 figures which you referred to. The extreme adverse reactions to these injections far exceeds 400 here in America. I won't go there as you have already provided this tidbit of information for the rest to see if they are not blinded by your drivel. I looked at the first link you posted and I realized that either you are too ignorant to answer my question, too dishonest to want to answer my question or too arrogant to think that someone else would not notice what you were attempting to do. Your disdain for the poor and the lower class of our citizenry has been duly noted.

Prevnar is being shoved down the throats of people by a carefully crafted campaign of misinformation and in many cases, outright lies by your ilk. I suggest you under take the research which, like Prevnar, will not heal you nor cure you and will only treat the symptoms you have for your advanced case of "we know what is good for you, you don't" campaign of corruption, lies and misleading information. 

Neither you or your industry associates can truthfully say or remotely guarantee that there are no ill effects from these drugs such as Prevnar 7 and Prevnar 13. The potential for super-immuno-deficient mutations from the use of these drugs appears to be your goal. You exhibit no interest in discussing any of the potential long term effects of these drugs which you defiantly seek to justify and peddle.

Your blatant simplistic and foolish tunnel vision approach is appalling to say the least. It would appear that since you are incapable of policing and holding your own industry accountable to mankind that it therefore shall be done for you but most certainly not by you or your cohorts.




> November 19, 2009  The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) advisory committee on vaccines and related biological products has given a near-unanimous endorsement of the pneumococcal vaccine Prevnar 13, saying it believes the new vaccine is effective and safe for the active immunization of children against serious systemic infection with Streptococcus pneumoniae.
> 
> Ten panel members voted yes, 1 voted no, and 1 abstained when asked whether the available data presented by Pfizer, the vaccine's sponsor, were adequate to support the effectiveness of Prevnar 13 when administered to infants and toddlers at ages 2, 4, 6, and 12 to 15 months to prevent invasive pneumococcal disease caused by serotypes in the vaccine.
> 
> ...


That is exactly what the links I put in were talking about that has been happening!

As far as your claim to serving the economy you have no clue as to what and how much you have cost the world with your meddling. I do not believe that putting the wealth or the health of the nation into the hands of the few has proved to be 'good for the economy'. You are a pompous ass.


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## Si modo (Mar 5, 2010)

Ro, your comprehension fails you.  E7 did nothing to support your point at all, whatever that point is.


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## RodISHI (Mar 5, 2010)

Oh, and by the way, get back on your chain.


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## Si modo (Mar 5, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Oh, and by the way, get back on your chain.


I need someone to translate.  Thanks in advance.


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## Ravi (Mar 5, 2010)

bat shit crazy said:


> The potential for super-immuno-deficient mutations from the use of these drugs appears to be your goal.


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## eagleseven (Mar 5, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Your link, while it did take a bit of work for me to get you to post it, clearly reveals that less than 400 children in AMERICA are actually dying from pneumonia from the 2006 figures which you referred to.


Thanks to the _Prevnar_ vaccine, only 400 American children died of Pneumonia in 2006, versus 1.8 million in the rest of the world. _Prevnar_ has been available in the US since 2000.

The 400 who died were likely the children of parents who refused the vaccine.


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## Si modo (Mar 5, 2010)

Ravi said:


> bat shit crazy said:
> 
> 
> > The potential for super-immuno-deficient mutations from the use of these drugs appears to be your goal.


That is guano crazy.  I'm impressed that folks still bother to read her posts.  She's established her irrelevance on this topic, at least with me.


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## RodISHI (Mar 5, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Your link, while it did take a bit of work for me to get you to post it, clearly reveals that less than 400 children in AMERICA are actually dying from pneumonia from the 2006 figures which you referred to.
> ...



Your claim you back it up with statistics.

Statistically there is no proof that child deaths in the United States of America cause by the Pneumonia or Influenza have been reduced by your vaccines since 1979. That is based on facts in the death reports for the entire United States from 1979 to 1995. I'm basing this statement on facts provided by the National report for death totals from 1979 through 1995. 

If all you money grubbing pharmaceutical bio-tech princes want to shoot children up with this crap then you pay for their medical from birth to grave. Don't shove your liabilities and obligations off on the taxpayer.


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## Si modo (Mar 6, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> eagleseven said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


Ohhhh, those bad, BAD scientists!


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## geauxtohell (Mar 6, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Your link, while it did take a bit of work for me to get you to post it, clearly reveals that less than 400 children in AMERICA are actually dying from pneumonia from the 2006 figures which you referred to.
> ...



It's the usual vaccine self-licking ice cream cone.  We prevent morbidity and mortality with vaccines to the point where people stop worrying about the disease and start worrying about the vaccines.

So ironic.


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## RodISHI (Mar 8, 2010)

> Access VAERS
> 
> Before searching the data, please read the
> U.S. Government disclaimer
> ...



Search Results for Vaccine Adverse Reactions, all ages;


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## L.K.Eder (Mar 8, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> > Access VAERS
> >
> > Before searching the data, please read the
> > U.S. Government disclaimer
> ...



did you read and understand the disclaimer?


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## RodISHI (Mar 8, 2010)

L.K.Eder said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > > Access VAERS
> ...



Do you have a problem?


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## L.K.Eder (Mar 8, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



no, i asked a question.

which you did not answer.


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## Si modo (Mar 8, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...





			
				From your own link said:
			
		

> When evaluating data from VAERS, it is important to note that for any reported event, no cause-and-effect relationship has been established. Reports of all possible associations between vaccines and adverse events (possible side effects) are filed in VAERS. Therefore, VAERS collects data on any adverse event following vaccination, be it coincidental or truly caused by a vaccine. The report of an adverse event to VAERS is not documentation that a vaccine caused the event.


A statement warning of the dangers of applying the classic _post hoc ergo propter hoc_ fallacy.  It's not too bright to do that and folks usually end up saying, 'so what?'.  Just sayin'.


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## L.K.Eder (Mar 8, 2010)

Autistic Child Ruins Marriage He Was Born To Save


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## RodISHI (Mar 8, 2010)

You two you do your own search. I am not the one that seems to have a problem with people having complete, full and inform consent about any medication manufactured by these large pharmaceutical companies. One can also consider how many people or doctors may have never reported side effects due to not realizing the side effects were actually vaccine related.


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## L.K.Eder (Mar 8, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> You two you do your own search. I am not the one that seems to have a problem with people having complete, full and inform consent about any medication manufactured by these large pharmaceutical companies. One can also consider how many people or doctors may have never reported side effects due to not realizing the side effects were actually vaccine related.


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## Si modo (Mar 8, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> You two you do your own search. I am not the one that seems to have a problem with people having complete, full and inform consent about any medication manufactured by these large pharmaceutical companies. One can also consider how many people or doctors may have never reported side effects due to not realizing the side effects were actually vaccine related.


What exactly in your thought processes causes you to think that what Eder, E7, geaux, ravi, or I posted means we have any sort of problem with informed consent?


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## RodISHI (Mar 8, 2010)

L.K.Eder said:


> Autistic Child Ruins Marriage He Was Born To Save


And this has what to do with the Prevnar vaccine?

As far as your article goes. Failed theory on this couple's part. Bringing a child into an already troubled relationship would 'make things all better'. Sometimes people can learn from the mistakes of others that went before them, not always mind you just sometimes.


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## L.K.Eder (Mar 8, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > Autistic Child Ruins Marriage He Was Born To Save
> ...


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## Si modo (Mar 8, 2010)

It's _The Onion_, Ro.


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## RodISHI (Mar 8, 2010)

Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > eagleseven said:
> ...





Si modo said:


> Proof positive that you are not at all interested in having any serious conversation about vaccines.  You can't be bothered to even read a link from another.
> You have your mind made up and you've based your own conclusion on emotional hyperbole and no science.


This was only your assumption. I cover this in my response to Eagleseven. "1.8 million children" in the world does not equate to how many children actually died of pneumonia in the United States no matter how one tries to twist it.




Ravi said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> > Children in the US DO die of pnemonia, sepsis and meningitis.
> ...


Odd, if one looks at the VAERS reporting several cases of vaccines given caused sepsis. There are also reported cases of meningitis reported contributed to vaccines that were given. There are many children who have had adverse reactions from these vaccines that are left crippled or with side effects they will never recover from. It is a non issue unless one has accurate and complete data on both adverse reactions and benefits. IMO, pharmaceutical companies have had free reign to do there own things with little to no oversight and no actual independent oversight. I refer to another thread post where I link the article of the four whistle blowers concerning the complicity of FDA with corporates, from one FDA supervisor to the whistle blower, *"Industry is our client"*.
I may be mistaken but it has always been my belief that our government bureaucracies are supposed to be working for the people.  



Ravi said:


> Maybe Rod works for a hospital and in the interest of the bottom line for the hospital would rather see lots of sick kids being admitted. KACHING!





			
				Ravi said:
			
		

> Maybe you should go to school and learn HOW to conduct research...just looking at information and jumping to conclusions isn't research. A critical thinking course wouldn't hurt either.


Tell me Si who has been attacking who in this thread with blind innuendo's and ignorant comments?




Ravi said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Ravi said:
> ...





Ravi said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Why would I desire to go back to school? To earn a living? Rod owns his land and homestead, its paid for. Has been for over fifteen years. Critical thinking requires searching out every aspect of an issue. Which is exactly what I am doing.
> ...


Irony at its best. 




Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...





Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Really and you have made your mind up based on what? I have not seen you add a lot to the conversation. Are you supporting shooting up every American child with a pneumonia shot so we can save the world? If so why? I have yet to see you make a credible  answer to this question.
> ...


No. Actually it just sounded like you tooting your own horn so I was ignoring you.




Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...





Si modo said:


> Stories are no science, Ro.


"Stories" are all people have to tell what has happened to them, their children or their patients. If we go with this theory of yours we have surely given up any freedom we may have to be ruled over by self appointed kings. Not sure about you but personally I do not wish to go that route.




Ravi said:


> Is Rod a troofer? I'd be surprised to find that she wasn't...the same tendency to believe and give credibility to confused people.


Agian another intelligent assumption on Ravi's part. I truly did not feel the need or the desire to respond to this.



Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > eagleseven said:
> ...


You have called information 'drivel' even when it was from the CDC. Since you believe I am 'misinformed' or providing 'disinformation' maybe the best thing for you to do is bypass whatever I post. I do not recall anywhere in this thread where you have provided jack to back up your claims. BTW, I could really care less if you like me or not. Your barking only shows that you have an agenda to protect something that has been unleashed on the poor and unsuspecting. Whatever your reasons are I could care less. Since all you actually provided was your own precepts there is nothing you could say at this point would lead me to believe you have any credibility. 




Ravi said:


> *Eczema vaccinatum* is a rare severe adverse reaction to smallpox vaccination.
> You really are stupid.


Here's Ravi again interjecting her intellect without reading all of the links more than likely.




Si modo said:


> Summary of thread:
> Ro:  Bad chemicals, bad, bad, bad.
> Others:  No, Ro.  Let me take the time and effort to show you how it works.
> Ro:  Bad science, bad, bad, bad.
> Others:


And here is Si barking. 




Si modo said:


> I can no longer find the wheat among the chaff.  What point does Ro want to make?  With all of the anti-chemistry threads lately, and with all of the cut-'n'-paste spam of random items that are not even tangential, I really have no idea.


You've gotten some of dr.gregg's ilk on you. You probably deserve it. 



Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > You guys live in denial. For whatever reasons there yours. You own it.
> ...


"Stop projecting your bullshit" and use some some credible information besides what is being bought and paid for by big PHARMA, include our own bureaucratic agencies working for "industry" in that bought and paid for group.



Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


Ravi and Si projecting again with nothing more to do than bark out their own little misguided assumptions.



Si modo said:


> It looks like Ro is a new type of troofer.
> Sad, really.
> As with all troofers, *I have no patience with the willfully blind*.
> *F*


I have a great amount of patience until people love money more than people start to destroy the poor. When the poor mean nothing to those who believe money and power are the end all to cure the ills of the world, they can suck eggs and bark at the moon all day and I will not be moved. From your own words it appears that you jumped into 'bark at the moon' category.




Si modo said:


> Ro, your comprehension fails you.  E7 did nothing to support your point at all, whatever that point is.





Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, and by the way, get back on your chain.
> ...


If you missed it, it is beyond your understanding.




Si modo said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > bat shit crazy said:
> ...





Si modo said:


> That is guano crazy.  I'm impressed that folks still bother to read her posts.  She's established her irrelevance on this topic, at least with me.


The best thing you two can do for yourselves is abstain from reading whatever I post. I believe there is an ignore feature you can use for that.




Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > eagleseven said:
> ...





Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Your claim you back it up with statistics.
> ...


Here again you have chosen to make another ignorant barking statement verses backing anything up with facts or stats.



Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > L.K.Eder said:
> ...


Great, Si uses the Global warming fiasco to interject her thoughts when she has really nothing of any value to add to the conversation. Like it or not Si I'm on-board with the scientist who actually want to work to clean up the environment. Not the ones who want to tax the people to pay for their own luxuries at the expense taking advantage of the working man. The ones that will work to provide a stable and viable means to help clean up what corporations have been destroying for ages. Most people with any common sense would be. Don't take that as I support Gore for any reason, he is a slime ball and a hypocrite who could really care less about anything but lining his on pockets. 




Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > You two you do your own search. I am not the one that seems to have a problem with people having complete, full and inform consent about any medication manufactured by these large pharmaceutical companies. One can also consider how many people or doctors may have never reported side effects due to not realizing the side effects were actually vaccine related.





Si modo said:


> What exactly in your thought processes causes you to think that what Eder, E7, geaux, ravi, or I posted means we have any sort of problem with informed consent?


I give you all of your posts in this thread as an example.



Si modo said:


> It's _The Onion_, Ro.


I'm not the one that posted it.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Mar 8, 2010)

luckily, i am vaccinated against ginormous walls of text.

i can just scroll by.


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## RodISHI (Mar 8, 2010)

L.K.Eder said:


> luckily, i am vaccinated against ginormous walls of text.
> 
> i can just scroll by.


Did that shot have mercury in it?


----------



## L.K.Eder (Mar 8, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > luckily, i am vaccinated against ginormous walls of text.
> ...



no. no side effects either.

lasbfhval


----------



## Ravi (Mar 8, 2010)

L.K.Eder said:


> luckily, i am vaccinated against ginormous walls of text.
> 
> i can just scroll by.


ditto...and no one ever forced that vaccine on me, I happily took it.


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## Si modo (Mar 8, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > What exactly in your thought processes causes you to think that what Eder, E7, geaux, ravi, or I posted means we have any sort of problem with informed consent?
> ...


Then you are lying.  Not one post by any of those mentioned even comes close to implying that we are against informed consent.

If you want to refute my claim that you are dishonest in lying and misrepresenting our position, then quote a post where you see this anti-informed consent view of any of us.

Or, are you just off your anti-psychotics and seeing things that aren't there?


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > It's _The Onion_, Ro.
> ...


Which you took seriously.


----------



## Ravi (Mar 8, 2010)

Just for the record...no one is forced into having a vaccine. No one.


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## eagleseven (Mar 9, 2010)

Ravi said:


> Just for the record...no one is forced into having a vaccine. No one.


But I was forced to take the love vaccine!

Or was it _ride the love machine_?


----------



## RodISHI (Mar 9, 2010)

Si modo said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



You really would like to twist my thoughts into yours. Your cumulation of posts shows you have nothing to add. You do not like my "thought processes" put me on ignore. Ask Eder and Ravi to share that good vaccine that they have with you. It may help you.


----------



## Si modo (Mar 9, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


Regardless of the additional chaff, you have no quote from any of us indicating that we are against informed consent.  I already knew that, but do want to highlight that fact.


----------

