# The CRUSADES explained



## pismoe

lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .


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## Mac1958

.

The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.

I don't think they're being serious.

.


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## deltex1

Very interesting.  The LIBTARDS are googling for some freak to counter your video.  But they won't find it.  So they will ignore your truth...just as the MinC does.


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## mudwhistle

Notice how Obama keeps remaining relevant by saying stupid shit?

And then it becomes a debate over it's validity for the next couple of weeks. Liberals repeating it like parrots and everyone else trying to make sense of it.


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## Porker

pismoe said:


> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .



Good Thread pismoe...the liberals/Obama ass kissers are now filling their pants full.


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## JoeB131

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .



Guy, when you sign up to fight against the bad old Muzzies, I'll take your whelping seriously. 

There is nothing going on over there that's worth ONE MORE American life.


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## Mac1958

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, when you sign up to fight against the bad old Muzzies, I'll take your whelping seriously.
> 
> There is nothing going on over there that's worth ONE MORE American life.
Click to expand...

So when you deflect to the Crusades, you ARE being serious?

Really?

.


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## LoneLaugher

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .



There is no PC protected religion other than Christianity.


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## guno

*The Crusades*

The Crusades Jewish Virtual Library


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## NoTeaPartyPleez

Porker said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Thread pismoe...the liberals/Obama ass kissers are now filling their pants full.
Click to expand...


*I watched this entire video.  This guy presents an animation of dots on a background of Europe and the Middle East with a brief narrative.  He mentions some 548 battles but provides no factual information for any of them.  He just says "...watch the white dots turn to red".  

Is that all it takes to convince you total idiots?  Bahahahahaha.....*


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## NoTeaPartyPleez

Porker said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Thread pismoe...the liberals/Obama ass kissers are now filling their pants full.
Click to expand...

*
Yeah, his little dot animation made me run to the bathroom....*


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## NoTeaPartyPleez

mudwhistle said:


> Notice how Obama keeps remaining relevant by saying stupid shit?
> 
> And then it becomes a debate over it's validity for the next couple of weeks. Liberals repeating it like parrots and everyone else trying to make sense of it.



*Works for Sarah Palin...*


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## guno

guno said:


> *The Crusades*
> 
> The Crusades Jewish Virtual Library



"The Crusades were a complete failure as far as the Christian world was concerned. It laid the seeds for the omnipresent hatred of Christians and Christianity in the Moslem world. It failed in establishing Christian control over the Holy Land. It weakened the power and control of the Church over the European monarchs and nobles. Eventually, the failure of the Crusades led to destabilization of much of Christian Europe as kings no longer set off on far-off adventures as easily as before. For the Jews, the Crusades represented a very rude awakening as to their truly precarious position within Christian Europe. In the end ,all attempts by the Jews to reach accommodation with their neighbors living in Christian Europe proved to be fruitless. The hatred and anti-Semitism bred into Europe by the Crusades and its aftermath unfortunately still finds expression today in the open hostility towards Jews, Israel and the free Jewish life that so mark current European society. To blame all of this solely on increased Moslem population in Europe is to whistle past the graveyard. The memory of the Crusades is not only present within us in our commemoration of the sefira period. It exists as well in the memory of the descendants of the crusaders"
REMEMBERING THE CRUSADES Rabbi Wein Jewish Destiny


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## JoeB131

pismoe said:


> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .



Bill Warner's hate sites just show how ignorant of history he is. 

Here's the lowdown on Bill Warner from the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups. 

The Anti-Muslim Inner Circle Southern Poverty Law Center

*BILL FRENCH
ORGANIZATION* Heads the for-profit Center for the Study of Political Islam in Nashville.

*CREDENTIALS *Former Tennessee State University physics professor; author of _Sharia Law for Non-Muslims_ (2010; under the pen name Bill Warner).

*SUMMARY* French has no formal training or background in law, Islam or Shariah law — which in any case is not an established legal code, as the book title implies, but a fluid concept subject to a wide range of interpretations and applications. He garnered attention recently by leading the opposition to a proposed mosque in Murfreesboro, Tenn.

*IN HIS OWN WORDS* "The two driving forces of our civilization are the Golden Rule and critical thought. … There is no Golden Rule in Islam. ... There is not really even a Ten Commandments."
—Quoted in _The _[Blount County, Tenn.] _Daily Times_, March 4, 2011



The Crusade really were terrible, and they were not "Defensive". 

The worst thing you can say about them is that they actually made matters worse,  Before the crusades, the Caliphate had broken up into dozens of squabbling kingdoms. They had stopped advancing in any meaningful way.  

Then the Crusades gave them a common enemy.  Worse than that, they actually WEAKENED the Byzantine Empire, which was the only thing really standing between Europe and the East.  The wonderfully amusing Fourth Crusade, for instance, never got anywhere NEAR a Muslim.   Instead the crusaders got in the middle of a Byzantine civil war, sacked Constantinople and by the time it was over the Byzantine empire was kind of done for. 

But if you want to see who the good or bad guys were, one only need compare the taking of Jerusalem by the Crusaders in 1099 (During the First Crusade) and compare it to the retaking of the city By Saladin in 1186 (which triggered the Third Crusade) 

to recap- when the Crusaders took the city, they didn't just kill all the Muslims, but Christians and Jews as well. 

When Saladin retook the city, he not only didn't slaughter civilians, he allowed most of them to leave for territory the Crusaders still occuppied, after exacting a ransom for the richer ones.  Poorer Christians were let go without a ransom being paid.


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## Lakhota

The OP is ignorant about the Crusades.  Start by asking Jews.  BTW, the little video is really some fucked up propaganda.

The Bloody Crusades - Jewish History

The Crusades: Jewish Virtual Library

Crusades - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Crimes of Christianity: The Crusades

The Bloodbaths of the Crusades Against Muslims. By Dr. Abdullah Mohammad Sindi - Radio Islam

Understanding the Crusades by Marian Horvat


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## Mac1958

pismoe said:


> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .


Look at how much effort the PC Police are putting into deflecting for the PC-protected religion in response.

Dang, impressive!

.


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## Moonglow




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## Where_r_my_Keys




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## The Irish Ram

How about now?  How about 2015.  Is there a problem?  Who is creating the problem?  Is there a particular religious group that is causing upheaval worldwide?  Do the Crusades have anything to do with this problem?  Are Christians creating no-go zones and demanding death to all those who mock Jesus?  Find a video of Christians chanting Jesus, Jesus while they slaughter school children at their desk?  No?  Then why are we making it an issue?  When ever Obama deflects, he's up to something.

And to prove a point, Lakota, what was the % of Native Americans that had a problem with the Washington Redskins in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and why so shy about your discontent?   Why did Obama have to tell you to be offended before you became offended?
Obama takes the spotlight off of his behind the scenes agenda by making a football team's name your agenda.  Good work.


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## The Irish Ram

LoneLaugher said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no PC protected religion other than Christianity.
Click to expand...


Can you give me some examples of this "protection" Christians and no other groups are privy to?


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## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Bill Warner's hate sites just show how ignorant of history he is....



ROFLMNAO!

Hey look kids Alinsky os offering another variation on his "Isolate the THREAT and claim *"NUNH UH!".*


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## Where_r_my_Keys

The Irish Ram said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no PC protected religion other than Christianity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you give me some examples of this "protection" Christians and no other groups are privy to?
Click to expand...


OOops.  

(They HATE that... Such 'trickery' tends to dry up most Leftist 'participation'.)


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## JoeB131

Mac1958 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, when you sign up to fight against the bad old Muzzies, I'll take your whelping seriously.
> 
> There is nothing going on over there that's worth ONE MORE American life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So when you deflect to the Crusades, you ARE being serious?
> 
> Really?
> 
> .
Click to expand...


1) I'm not deflecting. 

2) I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out that if you want to go back hundreds of years to prove Islamic Savagery, as a lot of your fellow Right Wing Nuts do, then the Crusades, Inquisitions, burning of witches are all fair game.  

3) You do understand that the Crusades really do have an effect on how the Islamic World views the west, don't you?


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## LoneLaugher

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no PC protected religion other than Christianity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you give me some examples of this "protection" Christians and no other groups are privy to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OOops.
> 
> (They HATE that... Such 'trickery' tends to dry up most Leftist 'participation'.)
Click to expand...


Oh look! It's the guy who believes that governors who deal with other states have FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE!! Let's all listen to what he has to say!


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## emilynghiem

LoneLaugher said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no PC protected religion other than Christianity.
Click to expand...

LoneLaugher
that's because you don't consider
the BELIEF that "health care is a right through govt" and the
BELIEF that "gay marriage is a right through govt"
as political beliefs or creeds.
because this is seen and sold as secular policy
the fact that they are beliefs is totally denied in order to push these by law and punish "nonbelievers as infidels"
Sound familiar?


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## The Irish Ram

Not to mention the Ottoman Empire and the bad taste they left in everyone's mouth...... 

I haven't heard that scourge brought up on the Sunday News Review.  Because it isn't germane to what is happening now.  Neither are the Crusades.  That speech was in lieu of the, _Muslims need to be stopped from killing *now*_ speech.


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## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> 1) I'm not deflecting.



LOL! 

OH!  Now isn't that sad?

Let me help ya through this scamp...  Deflecting: _cause (something) to change direction by interposing something; turn aside from a straight course._




JoeB131 said:


> 2) I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out that if you want to go back hundreds of years to prove Islamic Savagery... .



To prove islamic savagery, you need go back no father than today.  OR... if ya just NEED to go back, you CAN go back everyday for 1400 years.  As Islamic savagery has been on display everyday, for 1400 years.



JoeB131 said:


> 3) You do understand that the Crusades really do have an effect on how the Islamic World views the west, don't you?



They should... because the Crusades were designed to have an effect on how the Islamic World views the West.  Sadly the Islamic World is largely comprised of inbreds... and 'learning' isn't their strong suit.


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## The Irish Ram

Are


LoneLaugher said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no PC protected religion other than Christianity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you give me some examples of this "protection" Christians and no other groups are privy to?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OOops.
> 
> (They HATE that... Such 'trickery' tends to dry up most Leftist 'participation'.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh look! It's the guy who believes that governors who deal with other states have FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE!! Let's all listen to what he has to say!
Click to expand...


You  sure you can take time away from the, ISIS is JV, we've licked terrorism, here's a new tax speech from Obama?


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## FJO

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, when you sign up to fight against the bad old Muzzies, I'll take your whelping seriously.
> 
> There is nothing going on over there that's worth ONE MORE American life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So when you deflect to the Crusades, you ARE being serious?
> 
> Really?
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1) I'm not deflecting.
> 
> 2) I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out that if you want to go back hundreds of years to prove Islamic Savagery, as a lot of your fellow Right Wing Nuts do, then the Crusades, Inquisitions, burning of witches are all fair game.
> 
> 3) You do understand that the Crusades really do have an effect on how the Islamic World views the west, don't you?
Click to expand...


Born losers always run crying to some historical "injustice" because they are too stupid to achieve anything on their own merit.


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## Where_r_my_Keys

LoneLaugher said:


> Oh look! It's the guy who believes that governors who deal with other states have FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE!! Let's all listen to what he has to say!



Ahh.... Now isn't that precious?  ANOTHER trolling concession to the same standing point? 

You're _ADORABLE.

Your irrelevant and 3rd concession to the same standing point, is duly noted and summarily accepted._


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## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> 3) You do understand that the Crusades really do have an effect on how the Islamic World views the west, don't you?



Dear JoeB131 I think you hit the key point here,
the real issue is RETRIBUTION, and whether people forgive other groups or seek to attack in revenge.

Hitler acted out of fear and unforgiveness and committed genocide in the spirit of Retributive Justice or Anti Christ.
Jihadists do this now.

It is the spirit of Antichrist that we are saying is abusing religion.

Now let's look at what is correcting that. Where is Restorative Justice practiced?
This is the meaning of Christianity and Christ Jesus as bringing lasting Justice and Peace for all humanity.

What Obama missed is agreeing with Christians on the true spirit and message.
he only pointed out the bad, but didn't affirm the REAL Christian message is Restorative Justice not retributive.

and the reason he left this out is he is too busy practicing and preaching retributive justice
by teaching voting as the best revenge, and seeing half of America as the enemy to be defeated.
so he was not in a position to promote what he himself is not practicing in full.

if we want people to make the distinction between jihadists from muslims who aren't antichrist,
we need to make the distinction between hitlers and klan from the christians who aren't antichrist.

if we keep throwing in the hitlers and klan saying those are christians
why do you think people keep throwing in jihadist with muslims and saying they are the same religion?

What I found allows people to make this distinction is forgiveness.

if they cannot forgive the wrongs, they project the blame on the whoel group.
so you are right that this affects perception.

but Joe it goes both ways. if you want people to forgive Muslims and Jihadists
so they can separate these two, you also have to be fair and promote
forgiveness of Christians from antichristian genocides in order to separate the two.


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## The Irish Ram

> To prove islamic savagery, you need go back no father than today.



^ Just reiterate that line every time someone brings up the Crusades as a relevant topic in the fight against terrorist Islam.


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## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> LOL!
> 
> OH! Now isn't that sad?
> 
> Let me help ya through this scamp... Deflecting: _cause (something) to change direction by interposing something; turn aside from a straight course._



Which isn't what I was doing.  Now, I know you are simple- but I discussed THE CRUSADES in a thread about THE CRUSADES.  



Where_r_my_Keys said:


> To prove islamic savagery, you need go back no father than today. OR... if ya just NEED to go back, you CAN go back everyday for 1400 years. As Islamic savagery has been on display everyday, for 1400 years.



And Christian savagery has been on display for 2000 years. Just because they've been behaving themselves for the last 50 or so really doesn't make up for anything. 

Of course, the 150,000 people we killed in Iraq over weapons that didn't exist was pretty savage.  What we did at Abu Grahib was pretty savage.   The soldiers who raped a teenage girl and murdered her family and burned down her house to cover it up was pretty savage. 



Where_r_my_Keys said:


> They should... because the Crusades were designed to have an effect on how the Islamic World views the West. Sadly the Islamic World is largely comprised of inbreds... and 'learning' isn't their strong suit.



Actually, what the Crusades probably taught them is that the Christians aren't in it for the long haul.  Crusading was understood as a pretty bad idea by 1204.  

The "War on Terror" didn't have that much of a shelf life.


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## The Irish Ram

Joe, it's *why* you brought up the Crusades, not *that* you brought them up.  Why didn't you enlighten all of us about the Crusades last year?  Or 5 years ago? Not relevant last year?  Why all the interest now buddy?
Obama buzz words aren't working anymore.  He only gets a few of you to deflect with and for him now.
The rest have caught on to his game.....


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## Annie

Lest one forget, Vlad the Impaler took a strong stand against the Ottomans:

The Real Dracula Vlad the Impaler


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## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!
> 
> OH! Now isn't that sad?
> 
> Let me help ya through this scamp... Deflecting: _cause (something) to change direction by interposing something; turn aside from a straight course._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which isn't what I was doing.  Now, I know you are simple- but I discussed THE CRUSADES in a thread about THE CRUSADES.
Click to expand...


We're not discussing the crusades, we're discussing what the Crusades were and that the Crusades were a defensive campaign to defend Christians from the Evil that is Islam.



JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> To prove islamic savagery, you need go back no father than today. OR... if ya just NEED to go back, you CAN go back everyday for 1400 years. As Islamic savagery has been on display everyday, for 1400 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Christian savagery has been on display for 2000 years. Just because they've been behaving themselves for the last 50 or so really doesn't make up for anything.
Click to expand...


LOL!  Of course... and that's why your boy had to go back a thousand years, and use a BAD EXAMPLE.  The Crusades were savage, because the Crusades were _*defending* against savages..._ and of course, RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CRUSADES IS ALL ON *ISLAM!*

_Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._


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## Porker

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, when you sign up to fight against the bad old Muzzies, I'll take your whelping seriously.
> 
> There is nothing going on over there that's worth ONE MORE American life.
Click to expand...

Which actually means you wouldn't take him seriously if YOU had your head in a guillotine or saw a Machete about to make contact with your throat.


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## Porker

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Porker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Thread pismoe...the liberals/Obama ass kissers are now filling their pants full.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I watched this entire video.  This guy presents an animation of dots on a background of Europe and the Middle East with a brief narrative.  He mentions some 548 battles but provides no factual information for any of them.  He just says "...watch the white dots turn to red".
> 
> Is that all it takes to convince you total idiots?  Bahahahahaha.....*
Click to expand...


Which you wouldn't know anything about if he shoved it down your throat or up your ass.
BWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAA/


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## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL!
> 
> OH! Now isn't that sad?
> 
> Let me help ya through this scamp... Deflecting: _cause (something) to change direction by interposing something; turn aside from a straight course._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which isn't what I was doing.  Now, I know you are simple- but I discussed THE CRUSADES in a thread about THE CRUSADES.
> 
> 
> 
> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> To prove islamic savagery, you need go back no father than today. OR... if ya just NEED to go back, you CAN go back everyday for 1400 years. As Islamic savagery has been on display everyday, for 1400 years.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Christian savagery has been on display for 2000 years. Just because they've been behaving themselves for the last 50 or so really doesn't make up for anything.
> 
> Of course, the 150,000 people we killed in Iraq over weapons that didn't exist was pretty savage.  What we did at Abu Grahib was pretty savage.   The soldiers who raped a teenage girl and murdered her family and burned down her house to cover it up was pretty savage.
> 
> 
> 
> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> They should... because the Crusades were designed to have an effect on how the Islamic World views the West. Sadly the Islamic World is largely comprised of inbreds... and 'learning' isn't their strong suit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, what the Crusades probably taught them is that the Christians aren't in it for the long haul.  Crusading was understood as a pretty bad idea by 1204.
> 
> The "War on Terror" didn't have that much of a shelf life.
Click to expand...


Dear JoeB131
and the CURE and CORRECTION to abuses in the name of
Christ is to rebuke by fellow Christians who police their own

and to abuses in the name of the Constitution
is to enforce the Constitution to address those abusers by their own laws

so where is this rebuke with abuses of Islam by Jihadists?

if the only corrections are being done by Christians and Constitutionalists
then why do you think Islam looks bad as if it is condoning the wrongs and
letting other people fix the problems caused by abuses?


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## JoeB131

emilynghiem said:


> Dear JoeB131 I think you hit the key point here,
> the real issue is RETRIBUTION, and whether people forgive other groups or seek to attack in revenge.
> 
> Hitler acted out of fear and unforgiveness and committed genocide in the spirit of Retributive Justice or Anti Christ.
> Jihadists do this now.



As usual, I'm not going to read through your verbal diarhea waiting for you to get to a point. 

The Jihadists are at war with the west because the west has spent the last few decades sticking our dicks into their part of hte world.  Nothing more. Nothing less.  

And if you stick your dick in a hornet's nest, you shouldn't whine about getting stung.  

ISIL exists because we toppled Saddam and the government we replaced him with was inept, incompetent and favored the Shi'ites over the Sunnis.  

Nothing more. Nothing less.


----------



## eagle1462010

World History Timeline 8th Century 701 to 800 

711  A Muslim army crosses the Strait of Gibraltar and begins a conquest of Spain. Jews welcome them as liberators. An Arab ship is plundered by pirates near the mouth of the Indus River, and the Arab governor in Mesopotamia retaliates, sending an expedition, said to include 6,000 horses and 6,000 camels, to conquer the rajas of Sind.

717  Arabs have conquered eastward across land to the western border of China. They have conquered Lisbon and in the Caucasus, including Armenia. Caliph Omar II grants tax exemption to all believers. Wealth has been gathered from looting the wealthy during conquests and by taxing non-Muslims.

718  Constantinople, ably led by a general called Leo the Isaurian, has held off Muslim attacks by land and sea for more than a year. Leo is now Emperor Leo III. South-Central Europe is to remain Christian.

726  Emperor Leo III issues an edict against the worship of icons, seeing it as the main reason Jews and Muslims cannot be won to Christ. The cross is to be maintained as the symbol for Christianity, but worship with other images, including those of Jesus, are not permitted.

732  Muslims were making piratical raids from Spain northward across the Pyrenees into territory of the Franks. Charles Martel leads an army that defeats a Muslim army led by Abd-er-Rahman – who was not on a mission to conquer all of Christendom.

750  The Umayyad caliphs have lost people willing to fight for them. They have been overthrown by an army of mixed nationalities from Khurasan (east of Persia). The last Umayyad, Marwan II, is beheaded and his relatives are murdered. The new caliph is Abu-Abbas al-Sarah. Rule by the Abbasid caliphs has begun. The Abbasids begin ruling with a show of Islamic piety, and they talk of reforms. They give prominence in state affairs to Islamic theologians and experts in Islamic law.

1095  The Seljuk Turks have been expanding against the empire centered at Constantinople. They have conquered Jerusalem. The Turks were also Muslims, however they did not allow Christians to visit their holy sites. Pope Urban II responds to a call for help from the emperor at Constantinople and organizes what was to become known as the First Crusade. Urban II announces that Christ will lead any army that goes to rescue the Holy Land.

1097  Well-trained knights defeat Muslims near Nicaea, and later in the year the Crusaders reach Antioch.

1099  Jerusalem falls to the Crusaders, who slaughter the city's Jewish and Muslim inhabitants.


----------



## JoeB131

emilynghiem said:


> Dear @JoeB151
> and the CURE and CORRECTION to abuses in the name of
> Christ is to rebuke by fellow Christians who police their own
> 
> and to abuses in the name of the Constitution
> is to enforce the Constitution to address those abusers by their own laws
> 
> so where is this rebuke with abuses of Islam by Jihadists?



I would say the fact that Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other countries are doing the fighting in this war is a "Rebuke".  

Here's the problem. There really isn't a head Muslim to say, "Don't do that."  

The real problem is, you guys want to blame all Muslims for the actions of a few, while you excuse any bad behavior of a Christian with, "Well, he obviously missed Christ's message."


----------



## Porker

LoneLaugher said:


> Oh look! It's the guy who believes that governors who deal with other states have FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE!! Let's all listen to what he has to say!



Oh look! It's the guy who believes that a community organizer has the intelligence to run a country...somewhere other than into the ground.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear JoeB131 I think you hit the key point here,
> the real issue is RETRIBUTION, and whether people forgive other groups or seek to attack in revenge.
> 
> Hitler acted out of fear and unforgiveness and committed genocide in the spirit of Retributive Justice or Anti Christ.
> Jihadists do this now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, I'm not going to read through your verbal diarhea waiting for you to get to a point.
> 
> The Jihadists are at war with the west because the west has spent the last few decades sticking our dicks into their part of hte world.  Nothing more. Nothing less.
> 
> And if you stick your dick in a hornet's nest, you shouldn't whine about getting stung.
> 
> ISIL exists because we toppled Saddam and the government we replaced him with was inept, incompetent and favored the Shi'ites over the Sunnis.
> 
> Nothing more. Nothing less.
Click to expand...

JoeB131 
My point is that Restorative Justice is the solution to stop retributive justice that is antichrist.
And this is what Christianity teaches -- to overcome retribution and war to bring peace.
This is three sentences, is this verbal diarrhea?


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear @JoeB151
> and the CURE and CORRECTION to abuses in the name of
> Christ is to rebuke by fellow Christians who police their own
> 
> and to abuses in the name of the Constitution
> is to enforce the Constitution to address those abusers by their own laws
> 
> so where is this rebuke with abuses of Islam by Jihadists?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would say the fact that Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other countries are doing the fighting in this war is a "Rebuke".
> 
> Here's the problem. There really isn't a head Muslim to say, "Don't do that."
> 
> The real problem is, you guys want to blame all Muslims for the actions of a few, while you excuse any bad behavior of a Christian with, "Well, he obviously missed Christ's message."
Click to expand...

By having to explain for shit that happened in the 11th CENTURY...........................

I don't have to explain shit when we are talking current events.


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> 750 The Umayyad caliphs have lost people willing to fight for them. They have been overthrown by an army of mixed nationalities from Khurasan (east of Persia). The last Umayyad, Marwan II, is beheaded and his relatives are murdered. The new caliph is Abu-Abbas al-Sarah. Rule by the Abbasid caliphs has begun. The Abbasids begin ruling with a show of Islamic piety, and they talk of reforms. They give prominence in state affairs to Islamic theologians and experts in Islamic law.
> 
> 1095 The Seljuk Turks have been expanding against the empire centered at Constantinople. They have conquered Jerusalem. The Turks were also Muslims, however they did not allow Christians to visit their holy sites. Pope Urban II responds to a call for help from the emperor at Constantinople and organizes what was to become known as the First Crusade. Urban II announces that Christ will lead any army that goes to rescue the Holy Land.



So what you had there was a 340 year gap between when the Caliphate reached its height and when Urban II tried to restore his street cred as Pope by calling for a "Crusade".  

Of course, Urban was in a fight with Emperor Henry IV of Germany who had his OWN Pope, Clement III.  

Clement was actually IN Rome and recognized as Pope by most of the Christian world.  the Church only recognized him as an "anti-Pope" later.


----------



## JoeB131

emilynghiem said:


> My point is that Restorative Justice is the solution to stop retributive justice that is antichrist.
> And this is what Christianity teaches -- to overcome retribution and war to bring peace.
> This is three sentences, is this verbal diarrhea?



Good, you are learning to make a point simply. 

Except Christianity teaches no such thing.  But other than that, nicely put.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> I would say the fact that Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other countries are doing the fighting in this war is a "Rebuke".
> 
> 
> Here's the problem. There really isn't a head Muslim to say, "Don't do that."
> 
> The real problem is, you guys want to blame all Muslims for the actions of a few, while you excuse any bad behavior of a Christian with, "Well, he obviously missed Christ's message."


Hi JoeB131 who are you calling "you guys"
I'm the one person on here enforcing the teaching in Islam that it recognizes Jewish Christian and Muslim
laws, so that Christianity is included in the true practice of Islam.

This is like saying the true practice of Christianity is not the antichrist crusades or hitlers and klan.
And the true practice of Islam is not Jihadists or terrorists.

Both the Christians and Muslims projecting blame on each other
instead of forgiving and correcting with Restorative Justice
are missing the message of Christ.

I'm not just picking on one side.
I'm saying all the groups need to come together in Christ
as their teachings call for, since Islam includes Christianity in its teachings.


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> By having to explain for shit that happened in the 11th CENTURY...........................
> 
> I don't have to explain shit when we are talking current events.



Uh, guy, the title of this thread is "The Crusades Explained".  That's why we are explaining stuff that happened in the 11th century. 

Because someone posted a video from a hate group and thinks it's history.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

NoTeaPartyPleez said:


> Porker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Thread pismoe...the liberals/Obama ass kissers are now filling their pants full.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *I watched this entire video.  This guy presents an animation of dots on a background of Europe and the Middle East with a brief narrative.  He mentions some 548 battles but provides no factual information for any of them.  He just says "...watch the white dots turn to red".
> 
> Is that all it takes to convince you total idiots?  Bahahahahaha.....*
Click to expand...


So you deny the evidence, through absolutely no evidence.

The reason that his argument is compelling is that most of us were educated before 1980.  Meaning that we were taught of the Islamic sacking of Spain, the Islamic raids on France and throughout the Mediterranean... we were educated on the Dark Ages... and the need for the overland trading routes to sustain Europe to replace the historic sea-routes which had sustained Europe throughout the Classical Age.  We were taught about the "Musslemen", OKA: The Barbary Pirates, who raided US trading vessels... and the war fought after the fledgling US and President Jefferson finally refused to pay the ransom for captured US Citizens and cargo. ... .

But ... in fairness, there was_ NO WAY FOR YOU TO HAVE KNOWN THAT!_


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 750 The Umayyad caliphs have lost people willing to fight for them. They have been overthrown by an army of mixed nationalities from Khurasan (east of Persia). The last Umayyad, Marwan II, is beheaded and his relatives are murdered. The new caliph is Abu-Abbas al-Sarah. Rule by the Abbasid caliphs has begun. The Abbasids begin ruling with a show of Islamic piety, and they talk of reforms. They give prominence in state affairs to Islamic theologians and experts in Islamic law.
> 
> 1095 The Seljuk Turks have been expanding against the empire centered at Constantinople. They have conquered Jerusalem. The Turks were also Muslims, however they did not allow Christians to visit their holy sites. Pope Urban II responds to a call for help from the emperor at Constantinople and organizes what was to become known as the First Crusade. Urban II announces that Christ will lead any army that goes to rescue the Holy Land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you had there was a 340 year gap between when the Caliphate reached its height and when Urban II tried to restore his street cred as Pope by calling for a "Crusade".
> 
> Of course, Urban was in a fight with Emperor Henry IV of Germany who had his OWN Pope, Clement III.
> 
> Clement was actually IN Rome and recognized as Pope by most of the Christian world.  the Church only recognized him as an "anti-Pope" later.
Click to expand...

In the post they were raiding Constantinoble and had taken the holy city of Jerusalem...............They were also killing Christians in the name of Allah................so they decided to go kick their asses...........and convert them.............as the Muslims had tried to do to them.


----------



## The Irish Ram

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear JoeB131 I think you hit the key point here,
> the real issue is RETRIBUTION, and whether people forgive other groups or seek to attack in revenge.
> 
> Hitler acted out of fear and unforgiveness and committed genocide in the spirit of Retributive Justice or Anti Christ.
> Jihadists do this now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, I'm not going to read through your verbal diarhea waiting for you to get to a point.
> 
> The Jihadists are at war with the west because the west has spent the last few decades sticking our dicks into their part of hte world.  Nothing more. Nothing less.
> 
> And if you stick your dick in a hornet's nest, you shouldn't whine about getting stung.
> 
> ISIL exists because we toppled Saddam and the government we replaced him with was inept, incompetent and favored the Shi'ites over the Sunnis.
> 
> Nothing more. Nothing less.
Click to expand...


During WW2 if we hadn't stuck our body parts into Hitler's part of the world, it would have become all of Hitler's world minus a whole nation of people he didn't care for.  Sometimes the world *is* our problem. 

For instance, Wait till Obama let's Iran build the bomb.  We can sit back at watch them do what we stopped Hitler from doing.  Or we can stop them before they get around to sending their missiles our way.  Unless your dick is to fragile and politically correct to be of any use.


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> By having to explain for shit that happened in the 11th CENTURY...........................
> 
> I don't have to explain shit when we are talking current events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, guy, the title of this thread is "The Crusades Explained".  That's why we are explaining stuff that happened in the 11th century.
> 
> Because someone posted a video from a hate group and thinks it's history.
Click to expand...

the multiple threads causes confusion sometimes.....................

So sue me.


----------



## JoeB131

emilynghiem said:


> This is like saying the true practice of Christianity is not the antichrist crusades or hitlers and klan.
> And the true practice of Islam is not Jihadists or terrorists.
> 
> Both the Christians and Muslims projecting blame on each other
> instead of forgiving and correcting with Restorative Justice
> are missing the message of Christ.
> 
> I'm not just picking on one side.
> I'm saying all the groups need to come together in Christ
> as their teachings call for, since Islam includes Christianity in its teachings.



Or here's an even better idea. 

It's the fucking 21st Century. THere is no God. Never was.  Maybe we can use SCIENCE AND REASON instead of trying to find positive messages in the writing of Bronze Age savages.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is that Restorative Justice is the solution to stop retributive justice that is antichrist.
> And this is what Christianity teaches -- to overcome retribution and war to bring peace.
> This is three sentences, is this verbal diarrhea?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good, you are learning to make a point simply.
> 
> Except Christianity teaches no such thing.  But other than that, nicely put.
Click to expand...


Wow JoeB131 you sound like the people
who swear that Islam does not teach peaceful coexistence but teaches Jihadism.

Of course the message of Christ Jesus is Restorative Justice.
that is the whole point of the Bible to move from retributive justice 
that brings war and death, to restorative justice that brings peace and new life.

What do you think people give their lives to this cause?
it is to bring peace and justice to the world.

do you really believe the mother teresa's of the world,
and the doctors working aroudn the clock in Africa,
and the people struggling to save slaves from trafficking
are doing all this in the name of war and hypocrisy?

No, these believers work for equal justice for all, that is the spirit of Jesus.
what do you think Christians have been fighting for all these centuries?

you sound liek the very people you oppose who see all Muslims as Jihadist sympathizers

Shame on you if you make the same mistakes with Christians


----------



## JoeB131

The Irish Ram said:


> During WW2 if we hadn't stuck our body parts into Hitler's part of the world, it would have become all of Hitler's world minus a whole nation of people he didn't care for. Sometimes the world *is* our problem.



yeah. ISIL Isn't hitler. Boko Harem isn't Hitler.  Saddam Wasn't Hitler.   and, no, none of these things are OUR problems. It's the Oil Companies Problem. It's the Zionists problem. It isn't OUR problem. 



The Irish Ram said:


> For instance, Wait till Obama let's Iran build the bomb. We can sit back at watch them do what we stopped Hitler from doing. Or we can stop them before they get around to sending their missiles our way. Unless your dick is to fragile and politically correct to be of any use.



Okay, here's the thing. SO Iran Gets the bomb?  So what?  Frankly, I'm more worried about Kim Jong Um having the bomb than the Ayatollahs.   And I'm not particularly worried about Kim Jong Um because having a low-grade bomb you can't launch against enemies who can vaporize you isn't much of a threat.  

Here's the thing.  The Zionists and Oil companies want us in wars in that region, but what's in it for the rest of us?


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> By having to explain for shit that happened in the 11th CENTURY...........................
> 
> I don't have to explain shit when we are talking current events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, guy, the title of this thread is "The Crusades Explained".  That's why we are explaining stuff that happened in the 11th century.
> 
> Because someone posted a video from a hate group and thinks it's history.
Click to expand...


ROFLMNAO!  _"Hate group"... LOL! _

There is truly no hope for these idiots.


----------



## JoeB131

emilynghiem said:


> do you really believe the mother teresa's of the world,



Mother Teresa was a nasty peice of work who let people die in her filthy hospital while she flew of to the Mayo Clinic.  

Another Christian hypocrite I have no use for.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is like saying the true practice of Christianity is not the antichrist crusades or hitlers and klan.
> And the true practice of Islam is not Jihadists or terrorists.
> 
> Both the Christians and Muslims projecting blame on each other
> instead of forgiving and correcting with Restorative Justice
> are missing the message of Christ.
> 
> I'm not just picking on one side.
> I'm saying all the groups need to come together in Christ
> as their teachings call for, since Islam includes Christianity in its teachings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or here's an even better idea.
> 
> It's the fucking 21st Century. THere is no God. Never was.  Maybe we can use SCIENCE AND REASON instead of trying to find positive messages in the writing of Bronze Age savages.
Click to expand...


Sorry JoeB131 but all the people and religions in the world recognize God
by one name or another.

even laws of NATURE that science studies refer to NATURE as the source of life and laws
God is a universal concept

the Buddhists seek perfect Wisdom which is one of the oldest
names of God, named more times in the Bible than God as father

atheists and secular humanists seek Truth which is another
name for the Kingdom of God, to seek the truth that sets humanity free

others see God as LIFE or LOVE
as Good will or Greater Good for all humanity

Confucius name JEN as supreme virtue or benevolence

if you don't believe in a personified God or creator
there are as many who believe in 
the forces of life as nature, creation or universe

that's the same as what God stands for
all people have a concept of this but call it differently


----------



## The Irish Ram

emilynghiem said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear JoeB131 I think you hit the key point here,
> the real issue is RETRIBUTION, and whether people forgive other groups or seek to attack in revenge.
> 
> Hitler acted out of fear and unforgiveness and committed genocide in the spirit of Retributive Justice or Anti Christ.
> Jihadists do this now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, I'm not going to read through your verbal diarhea waiting for you to get to a point.
> 
> The Jihadists are at war with the west because the west has spent the last few decades sticking our dicks into their part of hte world.  Nothing more. Nothing less.
> 
> And if you stick your dick in a hornet's nest, you shouldn't whine about getting stung.
> 
> ISIL exists because we toppled Saddam and the government we replaced him with was inept, incompetent and favored the Shi'ites over the Sunnis.
> 
> Nothing more. Nothing less.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> JoeB131
> My point is that Restorative Justice is the solution to stop retributive justice that is antichrist.
> And this is what Christianity teaches -- to overcome retribution and war to bring peace.
> This is three sentences, is this verbal diarrhea?
Click to expand...


Em, honey, Not only is God not going to restore Israel to Syria, or Egypt, or Palestine,   He is going to defend her borders himself and a whole lot of Muslims are going to die.
While we try to force Israel to give up Jerusalem, God is going to see to it that David's Throne is going to be set upon by His Son, Jesus in Jerusalem, in the midst of His children.  He is going to restore Israel back to the boundaries that He set for Abraham.

Man would have an easier time restoring Texas to Mexico than to invade God's people after God gathered them home.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> ... It's the fucking 21st Century. THere is no God. Never was.  ...



ROFLMNAO!

Now... read that again AND understand that THAT demon, is in here for NO OTHER PURPOSE THAN TO DEFEND ISLAM... _the other demon_. 

WHICH IF THIS WERE AN ISLAMIC NATION, "IT" would be BEATEN INTO A PUDDLE OF BLOOD, allowed to heal and BEATEN INTO A PUDDLE OF BLOOD: AGAIN... then shot in the head.

Understand, the Ideological Left came into existence out of an Islamic thesis which came to Europe in the 11th century.  Such grew out of the addled notion that there is no such thing a natural law... and no such thing as cause and effect.

Which explains how and why the Ideological Left, which >IF< the Left were what it claims to be would be WHOLLY INTOLERANT of Islam... and instead... as we've witnessed AGAIN in this very thread, the Ideological Left is wholly aligned WITH ISLAM, while claiming to stand for everything Islam represents.

This should help the reader understand that The Ideological Left AND Islam, are simply two variations of the same EVIL.


----------



## The Irish Ram

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you really believe the mother teresa's of the world,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mother Teresa was a nasty peice of work who let people die in her filthy hospital while she flew of to the Mayo Clinic.
> 
> Another Christian hypocrite I have no use for.
Click to expand...


Maybe you should leave Mother Teresa's judgment to the one that wears the judgment robe.......... Unless you consider yourself as sin free as the one who wears the robe.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you really believe the mother teresa's of the world,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mother Teresa was a nasty peice of work who let people die in her filthy hospital while she flew of to the Mayo Clinic.
> 
> Another Christian hypocrite I have no use for.
Click to expand...


Aren't all humans hypocrites, JoeB131
so you agree with Christians then, that if you count the costs,
all humanity sins and falls short of perfection.

So that is why the focus of Christianity is on forgiveness, not judgment,
so we can heal and work together to correct social wrongs.
and not lose our lives relations and health jsut blaming each other and repeating
the same cycle of suffering over and over.

by forgiveness we can break free from the patterns of the past
and work together for positive change. that is the focus of Christianity in short.

do you have a problem with that?
of people forgiving so we can work together to addressa nd correct the causes of injustice
and prevent them in the future?


----------



## The Irish Ram

eagle1462010 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> By having to explain for shit that happened in the 11th CENTURY...........................
> 
> I don't have to explain shit when we are talking current events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, guy, the title of this thread is "The Crusades Explained".  That's why we are explaining stuff that happened in the 11th century.
> 
> Because someone posted a video from a hate group and thinks it's history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the multiple threads causes confusion sometimes.....................
> 
> So sue me.
Click to expand...


How much ya worth?


----------



## eagle1462010

The Irish Ram said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> By having to explain for shit that happened in the 11th CENTURY...........................
> 
> I don't have to explain shit when we are talking current events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, guy, the title of this thread is "The Crusades Explained".  That's why we are explaining stuff that happened in the 11th century.
> 
> Because someone posted a video from a hate group and thinks it's history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> the multiple threads causes confusion sometimes.....................
> 
> So sue me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How much ya worth?
Click to expand...


----------



## JoeB131

emilynghiem said:


> Sorry JoeB131 but all the people and religions in the world recognize God
> by one name or another.



That doesn't mean there actually IS a God.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Too darn cute eagle.


----------



## The Irish Ram

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry JoeB131 but all the people and religions in the world recognize God
> by one name or another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't mean there actually IS a God.
Click to expand...

True but prophesy does mean there is definitely some one that can see the end from the beginning and tell us the future.  What we are discussing is today's issues prophesied 2,000 years ago.


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry JoeB131 but all the people and religions in the world recognize God
> by one name or another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't mean there actually IS a God.
Click to expand...

The Atheist speaks..............which explains why he hates Religion......................mainly the one here in the GOOD OLE USA....................against barbaric scum called ISIS.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> During WW2 if we hadn't stuck our body parts into Hitler's part of the world, it would have become all of Hitler's world minus a whole nation of people he didn't care for. Sometimes the world *is* our problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah. ISIL Isn't hitler. Boko Harem isn't Hitler.  Saddam Wasn't Hitler.
Click to expand...


Yet, like the Ideological Left, which each represent, ARE EVIL.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> SO Iran Gets the bomb?  So what?



ROFLMNAO!

IF I did not already have a kick-ass signature... _*THAT*_ would be my new sig.


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> ROFLMNAO!
> 
> Now... read that again AND understand that THAT demon, is in here for NO OTHER PURPOSE THAN TO DEFEND ISLAM... _the other demon_.
> 
> WHICH IF THIS WERE AN ISLAMIC NATION, "IT" would be BEATEN INTO A PUDDLE OF BLOOD, allowed to heal and BEATEN INTO A PUDDLE OF BLOOD: AGAIN... then shot in the head.
> 
> Understand, the Ideological Left came into existence out of an Islamic thesis which came to Europe in the 11th century. Such grew out of the addled notion that there is no such thing a natural law... and no such thing as cause and effect.
> 
> Which explains how and why the Ideological Left, which >IF< the Left were what it claims to be would be WHOLLY INTOLERANT of Islam... and instead... as we've witnessed AGAIN in this very thread, the Ideological Left is wholly aligned WITH ISLAM, while claiming to stand for everything Islam represents.
> 
> This should help the reader understand that The Ideological Left AND Islam, are simply two variations of the same EVIL.



Obviously, you are a little deluded. 

We don't have a problem with Islam because they "hate our freedoms".  We don't have a problem with them because their Imaginary Sky Pixie isn't as cool as YOUR imaginary Sky Pixie. 

We have a problem with Islam because we support Israel and interfere in their politics and support rebel groups that end up turning on us.  

And at some point, some of us have the good sense to ask, "Why are we doing this?"


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> During WW2 if we hadn't stuck our body parts into Hitler's part of the world, it would have become all of Hitler's world minus a whole nation of people he didn't care for. Sometimes the world *is* our problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah. ISIL Isn't hitler. Boko Harem isn't Hitler.  Saddam Wasn't Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet, like the Ideological Left, which each represent, ARE EVIL.
Click to expand...


Yawn, guy, when I hear "evil", I just have to laugh. 

I think zionism is evil. I think the Oil Companies are evil.  

You are happy to dance to their tune.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry JoeB131 but all the people and religions in the world recognize God
> by one name or another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't mean there actually IS a God.
Click to expand...


LOL!  No shit?

What _means that?



eagle1462010 said:





JoeB131 said:





emilynghiem said:



			Sorry JoeB131 but all the people and religions in the world recognize God
by one name or another.
		
Click to expand...


That doesn't mean there actually IS a God.
		
Click to expand...

The Atheist speaks..............which explains why he hates Religion...
		
Click to expand...

_
Except it claims that Islam is a religion and it's spent the last 2 hours defending Islam.

Crazy huh.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> We don't have a problem with Islam ....



Yet Islam has a problem with EVERY SINGLE THING ON THIS PLANET!  _Just like the Ideological Left!_

Huh... It's like they ARE the same dam' THING!

LOL!  I say it HERE and "it' shows up ^THERE^.


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> Except it claims that Islam is a religion and it's spent the last 2 hours defending Islam.
> 
> Crazy huh.



I think you don't understand the difference between "defending" and saying', "Hey, maybe this is a fight that has nothing to do with us."


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> During WW2 if we hadn't stuck our body parts into Hitler's part of the world, it would have become all of Hitler's world minus a whole nation of people he didn't care for. Sometimes the world *is* our problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah. ISIL Isn't hitler. Boko Harem isn't Hitler.  Saddam Wasn't Hitler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yet, like the Ideological Left, which each represent, ARE EVIL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yawn, guy, when I hear "evil", I just have to laugh.
Click to expand...


You must be laughing NONSTOP!  Because you hear evil with every sound you make.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except it claims that Islam is a religion and it's spent the last 2 hours defending Islam.
> 
> Crazy huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think ...
Click to expand...


Yet there is no evidence anywhere that such has ever happened! 

_How *DO *it do it?_


----------



## JoeB131

So "Where is his brain" has melted down into a another puddle of butthurt.


----------



## gallantwarrior

JoeB131 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, when you sign up to fight against the bad old Muzzies, I'll take your whelping seriously.
> 
> There is nothing going on over there that's worth ONE MORE American life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So when you deflect to the Crusades, you ARE being serious?
> 
> Really?
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1) I'm not deflecting.
> 
> 2) I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out that if you want to go back hundreds of years to prove Islamic Savagery, as a lot of your fellow Right Wing Nuts do, then the Crusades, Inquisitions, burning of witches are all fair game.
> 
> 3) You do understand that the Crusades really do have an effect on how the Islamic World views the west, don't you?
Click to expand...

I don't even have to go back a day to prove Islamic savagery...or do you really live under a rock?
The Crusades happened a long, long time ago...most of the world has managed to grow up and get the fuck over it...why not you Islamic world? 
Oh, were you raised by some kind of animal, or alien invader?  Most _decent_ mothers would have taught they children that "two wrongs do not make it right".  Just because some Christians crusaded into the so-called "holy land" thousands of years ago is absolutely no excuse for present day sub-human behavior being exhibited by your cherished muslims.


----------



## The Irish Ram

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is like saying the true practice of Christianity is not the antichrist crusades or hitlers and klan.
> And the true practice of Islam is not Jihadists or terrorists.
> 
> Both the Christians and Muslims projecting blame on each other
> instead of forgiving and correcting with Restorative Justice
> are missing the message of Christ.
> 
> I'm not just picking on one side.
> I'm saying all the groups need to come together in Christ
> as their teachings call for, since Islam includes Christianity in its teachings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or here's an even better idea.
> 
> It's the fucking 21st Century. THere is no God. Never was.  Maybe we can use SCIENCE AND REASON instead of trying to find positive messages in the writing of Bronze Age savages.
Click to expand...


Odd that someone told us 4,000 years ago about dimensions and their attributes.  The dimensions that Science found last year.  Wait till they discover that dimensions can tear, burn, roll up... then we can give Science more of the credit.
How long did it take science to get the "orb" thingy?


----------



## eagle1462010

Gates of Vienna The Crusades A Response to Islamic Aggression

The fact is, in the twenty years before the First Crusade, Christendom had lost the whole of Anatolia, an area greater than France, and a region right on the doorstep of Europe. In 1050 the Seljuk leader Togrul Beg undertook Holy War against the Christians of Anatolia, who had thus far resisted the power of the Caliphs. We are told that 130,000 Christians died in the war, but that, upon Togrul Beg’s death in 1063 the Christians reasserted their independence and freedom. This was however to be of short duration, and no sooner had Togrul Beg’s nephew Alp Arslan been proclaimed Sultan than the war was renewed. In 1064 the old Armenian capital of Ani was destroyed; and the prince of Kars, the last independent Armenian ruler, “gladly handed over his lands to the [Byzantine] Emperor in return for estates in the Taurus mountains. Large numbers of Armenians accompanied him to his new home.” (Steven Runciman, _The History of the Crusades_ Vol. 1 (Cambridge, 1951) p.61) Indeed, at this time, the entire Armenian nation was effectively transplanted hundreds of miles to the south and west.

But the Turkish attacks continued. From 1065 onwards the great frontier-fortress of Edessa was assaulted yearly. In 1066 they occupied the pass of the Amanus Mountains, and next spring they sacked the Cappadocian metropolis of Caesarea. Next winter the Byzantine armies were defeated at Melitene and Sebastea. These victories gave Alp Arslan control of all Armenia, and a year later he raided far into the Empire, to Neocaesarea and Amorium in 1068, to Iconium in 1069, and in 1070 to Chonae, near the Aegean coast. (Ibid.)


----------



## eagle1462010

The Persians had taken Spain, Sicily and much of Europe.............Christians were in defensive battles nearly up to the point of THAT'S ENOUGH...................AND..............


----------



## gallantwarrior

The Irish Ram said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear JoeB131 I think you hit the key point here,
> the real issue is RETRIBUTION, and whether people forgive other groups or seek to attack in revenge.
> 
> Hitler acted out of fear and unforgiveness and committed genocide in the spirit of Retributive Justice or Anti Christ.
> Jihadists do this now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As usual, I'm not going to read through your verbal diarhea waiting for you to get to a point.
> 
> The Jihadists are at war with the west because the west has spent the last few decades sticking our dicks into their part of hte world.  Nothing more. Nothing less.
> 
> And if you stick your dick in a hornet's nest, you shouldn't whine about getting stung.
> 
> ISIL exists because we toppled Saddam and the government we replaced him with was inept, incompetent and favored the Shi'ites over the Sunnis.
> 
> Nothing more. Nothing less.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> During WW2 if we hadn't stuck our body parts into Hitler's part of the world, it would have become all of Hitler's world minus a whole nation of people he didn't care for.  Sometimes the world *is* our problem.
> 
> For instance, Wait till Obama let's Iran build the bomb.  We can sit back at watch them do what we stopped Hitler from doing.  Or we can stop them before they get around to sending their missiles our way.  Unless your dick is to fragile and politically correct to be of any use.
Click to expand...

You assume Joe is anything other than a dick-less libtard parrot.


----------



## gallantwarrior

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is like saying the true practice of Christianity is not the antichrist crusades or hitlers and klan.
> And the true practice of Islam is not Jihadists or terrorists.
> 
> Both the Christians and Muslims projecting blame on each other
> instead of forgiving and correcting with Restorative Justice
> are missing the message of Christ.
> 
> I'm not just picking on one side.
> I'm saying all the groups need to come together in Christ
> as their teachings call for, since Islam includes Christianity in its teachings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or here's an even better idea.
> 
> It's the fucking 21st Century. THere is no God. Never was.  Maybe we can use SCIENCE AND REASON instead of trying to find positive messages in the writing of Bronze Age savages.
Click to expand...

Yeah, OK, tell that to you islaamist buddies who are committing wholesale gruesome murders in the name of their so-called god.


----------



## Moonglow

Ebb and flow, the way it goes, 
when conquering lands you want to hold,
...No matter the religion, 
no matter the race, 
it's a fucked up way of living in this place...
called Earth...
damn humans...


----------



## gallantwarrior

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> do you really believe the mother teresa's of the world,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mother Teresa was a nasty peice of work who let people die in her filthy hospital while she flew of to the Mayo Clinic.
> 
> Another Christian hypocrite I have no use for.
Click to expand...


----------



## gallantwarrior

If King Barry S. wants to invoke the Crusades, where do I sign up?  I'd be more than happy to join some christians and go kick some musselman ass, barbaric savages that they've proven themselves to be.


----------



## Moonglow

gallantwarrior said:


> If King Barry S. wants to invoke the Crusades, where do I sign up?  I'd be more than happy to join some christians and go kick some musselman ass, barbaric savages that they've proven themselves to be.


Like sand do ya?


----------



## pismoe

so , it looks like this video got some interest .   I knew about the muslims taking of Spain and I've heard about them almost invading France .   Looks like the muslims  invaded  Armenia , Sicily and Italy and lots of other places .  I know that the muslims were taking European slaves and sailing vessels . I've heard about the muslim Barbary pirates and heard about Constantinople becoming Istanbul .  I've heard of muslim pirates messing with American shipping in the early 1800s and I've heard and approve of what early America did to stop the muslim piracy .   I also learned a bit more about the Crusades from the video plus many posters comments .   I hope that some forum members may have learned a little History and a bit about the MODERN world wide muslim threat .   My conclusion is that isis and similar ilk need to be totally destroyed .   I came to that conclusion a long time ago and this video and some of the comments make me realize that my conclusion is the correct conclusion .  Its also good that mrobama made his comments the other day at that Prayer Breakfast so , thank you mrobama !!


----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## JoeB131

gallantwarrior said:


> I don't even have to go back a day to prove Islamic savagery...or do you really live under a rock?
> The Crusades happened a long, long time ago...most of the world has managed to grow up and get the fuck over it...why not you Islamic world?
> Oh, were you raised by some kind of animal, or alien invader? Most _decent_ mothers would have taught they children that "two wrongs do not make it right". Just because some Christians crusaded into the so-called "holy land" thousands of years ago is absolutely no excuse for present day sub-human behavior being exhibited by your cherished muslims.



Guy, I don't "cherish" Muslims.  

I just don't see why we have to throw away blood and treasure fighting them because the oil companies want to keep the flow of oil going of the fucking Zionists want to play, "God loves us the very best." 

Yes, beheadings and burning alive are savage.  So is carpet bombing or waterboarding or a lot of the stuff we've been doing.


----------



## JoeB131

The Irish Ram said:


> Odd that someone told us 4,000 years ago about dimensions and their attributes. The dimensions that Science found last year. Wait till they discover that dimensions can tear, burn, roll up... then we can give Science more of the credit.
> How long did it take science to get the "orb" thingy?



Actually, the Bible said the world was flat.  We know that isn't true.  But it's in the fucking bible.


----------



## JoeB131

gallantwarrior said:


> If King Barry S. wants to invoke the Crusades, where do I sign up?  I'd be more than happy to join some christians and go kick some musselman ass, barbaric savages that they've proven themselves to be.



Yes, the Muslims are no doubt quaking in their sandals over you....


----------



## Meathead

JoeB131 said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> If King Barry S. wants to invoke the Crusades, where do I sign up?  I'd be more than happy to join some christians and go kick some musselman ass, barbaric savages that they've proven themselves to be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Muslims are no doubt quaking in their sandals over you....
Click to expand...

Crusades are not necessary. A handful of Jews took the holy lands from the hapless Muslims quite some time ago.


----------



## eagle1462010

http:The *Battle of Tours* (October 732),[URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours#cite_note-27'][27] also called the *Battle of Poitiers* and in Arabic: معركة بلاط الشهداء‎ (_ma'arakat Balâṭ ash-Shuhadâ_ - _Battle of the Palace of Martyrs_)[28][29][30] was fought in an area between the cities of Poitiers and Tours, in north-central France, near the village of Moussais-la-Bataille, about 20 kilometres (12 mi) northeast of Poitiers. The location of the battle was close to the border between the Frankish realm and then-independent Aquitaine. The battle pitted Frankish and Burgundian[31][32] forces under Austrasian Mayor of the Palace Charles Martel against an army of the Umayyad Caliphate led by 'Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi, Governor-General of al-Andalus//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours[/URL]

The battle of Tours in Central France finally stopped the Muslim Caliphate which had conquered all of Northern Africa, Spain, Sicily, and failed to conquer France and the rest of Europe.

A turning point in the War against RADICAL ISLAM in Medieval times.


----------



## JoeB131

Meathead said:


> Crusades are not necessary. A handful of Jews took the holy lands from the hapless Muslims quite some time ago.



And it will be HILARIOUS when they are driven into the sea.


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> http:The *Battle of Tours* (October 732),[27] also called the *Battle of Poitiers* and in Arabic: معركة بلاط الشهداء‎ (_ma'arakat Balâṭ ash-Shuhadâ_ - _Battle of the Palace of Martyrs_)[28][29][30] was fought in an area between the cities of Poitiers and Tours, in north-central France, near the village of Moussais-la-Bataille, about 20 kilometres (12 mi) northeast of Poitiers. The location of the battle was close to the border between the Frankish realm and then-independent Aquitaine. The battle pitted Frankish and Burgundian[31][32] forces under Austrasian Mayor of the Palace Charles Martel against an army of the Umayyad Caliphate led by 'Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi, Governor-General of al-Andalus//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours
> 
> The battle of Tours in Central France finally stopped the Muslim Caliphate which had conquered all of Northern Africa, Spain, Sicily, and failed to conquer France and the rest of Europe.
> 
> A turning point in the War against RADICAL ISLAM in Medieval times.



There's no real evidence that Tours was anything more than a raiding party. 

But do keep on with your paranoia.  

There's a big sweaty Arab man hiding under your bed right now.


----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## Meathead

JoeB131 said:


> Meathead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Crusades are not necessary. A handful of Jews took the holy lands from the hapless Muslims quite some time ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it will be HILARIOUS when they are driven into the sea.
Click to expand...

Sure Joey. the signs are everywhere. What, with their cache of AK-47 and home-made rockets, how can they fail?


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> http:The *Battle of Tours* (October 732),[27] also called the *Battle of Poitiers* and in Arabic: معركة بلاط الشهداء‎ (_ma'arakat Balâṭ ash-Shuhadâ_ - _Battle of the Palace of Martyrs_)[28][29][30] was fought in an area between the cities of Poitiers and Tours, in north-central France, near the village of Moussais-la-Bataille, about 20 kilometres (12 mi) northeast of Poitiers. The location of the battle was close to the border between the Frankish realm and then-independent Aquitaine. The battle pitted Frankish and Burgundian[31][32] forces under Austrasian Mayor of the Palace Charles Martel against an army of the Umayyad Caliphate led by 'Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi, Governor-General of al-Andalus//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours
> 
> The battle of Tours in Central France finally stopped the Muslim Caliphate which had conquered all of Northern Africa, Spain, Sicily, and failed to conquer France and the rest of Europe.
> 
> A turning point in the War against RADICAL ISLAM in Medieval times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no real evidence that Tours was anything more than a raiding party.
> 
> But do keep on with your paranoia.
> 
> There's a big sweaty Arab man hiding under your bed right now.
Click to expand...

This thread is about the CRUSADES..........remember............

BACK ON TOPIC.............The MUSLIM CALIPHATE was stopped.........A turning point against the ISLAMIC States trying to dominate the world,

The events leading up to the Crusades were to retake the LANDS taken BY MUSLIMS.  EVENTUALLY leading to take back the Jerusalem


----------



## Mac1958

.

As a historical discussion, the Crusades were fascinating.

As a strategy the PC Police use to transparently deflect for the PC-protected religion, not so much.

.


----------



## eagle1462010

List of battles 301 1300 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

A period of battle after battle after battle..........WARS to retake current day EUROPE and other areas of the world to drive back the CALIPHATES

Siege of Bari - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

The *siege of Bari* took place 1068–71, during the Middle Ages, when Norman forces, under the command of Robert Guiscard, laid siege to the city of Bari, a major stronghold of the Byzantines in Italy and the capital of the Catepanate of Italy, starting from August 5, 1068. Bari was captured on April 16, 1071 when Robert Guiscard entered the city, ending the Byzantine presence in southern Italy

*Result* Decisive Norman victory, the Byzantines retreat from Southern Italy


----------



## eagle1462010

The threat to Constantinople.  The Seijuk Turks.
Main cause of the 1st Crusade.


----------



## eagle1462010

This guy is a little goofy but lays it out very well.


----------



## pismoe

thanks for the continuation history Gents .   Facts shut the lefties and muslim sympathizers up plus they inform the good people that just aren't fully aware of muslim expansion into Europe and the rest of the world .    The muslims converted Christians and others at the point of the sword and the invading muslims have been killing and murdering since the earliest days of their invention of 'islam' .    That's about 1300 years of murder and invasion if I'm not mistaken .  Anyway , thanks for the history because a lot of people just aren't aware of what muslims have done and what they want to continue to do .


----------



## Dogmaphobe

LoneLaugher said:


> As a historical discussion, the Crusades were fascinating.
> 
> As a strategy the PC Police use to transparently deflect for the PC-protected religion, not so much.
> 
> .



 You need to give JoeB a break here. He was not blessed with average intelligence, and so all he is capable of is this pattern of spouting a bunch of idiotic crap about "Zionists" and whathaveyou hoping it will stick.

Those who trot out  their "crusades" card to justify Islamic attitudes towards the west never quite get around to asking the same question in reverse, so their ignorant twaddle serves only the purpose of propaganda.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except it claims that Islam is a religion and it's spent the last 2 hours defending Islam.
> 
> Crazy huh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you don't understand the difference between "defending" and saying', "Hey, maybe this is a fight that has nothing to do with us."
Click to expand...


You don't _think_ and the result of that short-coming, is that _YOU DO *NOT* REALIZE THAT THERE IS *NO* DIFFERENCE._


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

gallantwarrior said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> The PC Police just tosses out the Crusades to deflect for the PC-protected religion.
> 
> I don't think they're being serious.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, when you sign up to fight against the bad old Muzzies, I'll take your whelping seriously.
> 
> There is nothing going on over there that's worth ONE MORE American life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So when you deflect to the Crusades, you ARE being serious?
> 
> Really?
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1) I'm not deflecting.
> 
> 2) I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out that if you want to go back hundreds of years to prove Islamic Savagery, as a lot of your fellow Right Wing Nuts do, then the Crusades, Inquisitions, burning of witches are all fair game.
> 
> 3) You do understand that the Crusades really do have an effect on how the Islamic World views the west, don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't even have to go back a day to prove Islamic savagery...or do you really live under a rock?
> The Crusades happened a long, long time ago...most of the world has managed to grow up and get the fuck over it...why not you Islamic world?
> Oh, were you raised by some kind of animal, or alien invader?  Most _decent_ mothers would have taught they children that "two wrongs do not make it right".  Just because some Christians crusaded into the so-called "holy land" thousands of years ago is absolutely no excuse for present day sub-human behavior being exhibited by your cherished muslims.
Click to expand...


Mother's should teach their children that two wrongs do not make a right.  And Mother's should also teach their children that _it is *NEVER* WRONG to defend innocent people from the savagery of a brutal cult. _

Therefore a Mother would teach her children that the Crusades, wherein Christian's rescued Christians from the savage rule of Muslims, _were *NOT* WRONG_; that such was decidedly *RIGHT... *_and a very* GOOD THING*_.  That the Crusades were a very minor series of battles fought in _RESPONSE TO AND WHICH QUELLED A MASSIVE INVASION _of a *demonic cult,* the result of which is what we know today, as* "The Dark Ages!".*


----------



## Moonglow

eagle1462010 said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> http:The *Battle of Tours* (October 732),[27] also called the *Battle of Poitiers* and in Arabic: معركة بلاط الشهداء‎ (_ma'arakat Balâṭ ash-Shuhadâ_ - _Battle of the Palace of Martyrs_)[28][29][30] was fought in an area between the cities of Poitiers and Tours, in north-central France, near the village of Moussais-la-Bataille, about 20 kilometres (12 mi) northeast of Poitiers. The location of the battle was close to the border between the Frankish realm and then-independent Aquitaine. The battle pitted Frankish and Burgundian[31][32] forces under Austrasian Mayor of the Palace Charles Martel against an army of the Umayyad Caliphate led by 'Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi, Governor-General of al-Andalus//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours
> 
> The battle of Tours in Central France finally stopped the Muslim Caliphate which had conquered all of Northern Africa, Spain, Sicily, and failed to conquer France and the rest of Europe.
> 
> A turning point in the War against RADICAL ISLAM in Medieval times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no real evidence that Tours was anything more than a raiding party.
> 
> But do keep on with your paranoia.
> 
> There's a big sweaty Arab man hiding under your bed right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is about the CRUSADES..........remember............
> 
> BACK ON TOPIC.............The MUSLIM CALIPHATE was stopped.........A turning point against the ISLAMIC States trying to dominate the world,
> 
> The events leading up to the Crusades were to retake the LANDS taken BY MUSLIMS.  EVENTUALLY leading to take back the Jerusalem
Click to expand...

The why did the Crusaders sack Constantinople when it was under Byzantine rule?


----------



## jon_berzerk

pismoe said:


> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .




interesting factoid 

obama has killed more folks with his dronestrikers 

then the spanish Inquisition

--LOL


----------



## pismoe

yeah , I don't know mrobama drone kill numbers but I was surprised to hear that the Inquisition killed something like 2500 people total in all its years of operation .


----------



## Moonglow

jon_berzerk said:


> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> interesting factoid
> 
> obama has killed more folks with his dronestrikers
> 
> then the spanish Inquisition
> 
> --LOL
Click to expand...

Yet the right claims Oblama has done nothing against Muslim terrorist...Which is it going to be?


----------



## eagle1462010

Moonglow said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> http:The *Battle of Tours* (October 732),[27] also called the *Battle of Poitiers* and in Arabic: معركة بلاط الشهداء‎ (_ma'arakat Balâṭ ash-Shuhadâ_ - _Battle of the Palace of Martyrs_)[28][29][30] was fought in an area between the cities of Poitiers and Tours, in north-central France, near the village of Moussais-la-Bataille, about 20 kilometres (12 mi) northeast of Poitiers. The location of the battle was close to the border between the Frankish realm and then-independent Aquitaine. The battle pitted Frankish and Burgundian[31][32] forces under Austrasian Mayor of the Palace Charles Martel against an army of the Umayyad Caliphate led by 'Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi, Governor-General of al-Andalus//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours
> 
> The battle of Tours in Central France finally stopped the Muslim Caliphate which had conquered all of Northern Africa, Spain, Sicily, and failed to conquer France and the rest of Europe.
> 
> A turning point in the War against RADICAL ISLAM in Medieval times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no real evidence that Tours was anything more than a raiding party.
> 
> But do keep on with your paranoia.
> 
> There's a big sweaty Arab man hiding under your bed right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is about the CRUSADES..........remember............
> 
> BACK ON TOPIC.............The MUSLIM CALIPHATE was stopped.........A turning point against the ISLAMIC States trying to dominate the world,
> 
> The events leading up to the Crusades were to retake the LANDS taken BY MUSLIMS.  EVENTUALLY leading to take back the Jerusalem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The why did the Crusaders sack Constantinople when it was under Byzantine rule?
Click to expand...

I referred to the beginning Crusade............by the 4th Crusade, which you are referencing the Crusade had grown to killing all who were in their path, including their own....................

The 4th Crusade actually weakened the defenses against the rise of the OTTOMANS............The Crusades were eventually a failure..............they eventually turned against the very reason they started to begin with............To protect Europe and keep Constantinople from falling to the Turks of that day and age.

It's failure, led to Centuries of control by the Turks.................who were not defeated again until WWII.


----------



## Moonglow

eagle1462010 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> http:The *Battle of Tours* (October 732),[27] also called the *Battle of Poitiers* and in Arabic: معركة بلاط الشهداء‎ (_ma'arakat Balâṭ ash-Shuhadâ_ - _Battle of the Palace of Martyrs_)[28][29][30] was fought in an area between the cities of Poitiers and Tours, in north-central France, near the village of Moussais-la-Bataille, about 20 kilometres (12 mi) northeast of Poitiers. The location of the battle was close to the border between the Frankish realm and then-independent Aquitaine. The battle pitted Frankish and Burgundian[31][32] forces under Austrasian Mayor of the Palace Charles Martel against an army of the Umayyad Caliphate led by 'Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi, Governor-General of al-Andalus//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours
> 
> The battle of Tours in Central France finally stopped the Muslim Caliphate which had conquered all of Northern Africa, Spain, Sicily, and failed to conquer France and the rest of Europe.
> 
> A turning point in the War against RADICAL ISLAM in Medieval times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no real evidence that Tours was anything more than a raiding party.
> 
> But do keep on with your paranoia.
> 
> There's a big sweaty Arab man hiding under your bed right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is about the CRUSADES..........remember............
> 
> BACK ON TOPIC.............The MUSLIM CALIPHATE was stopped.........A turning point against the ISLAMIC States trying to dominate the world,
> 
> The events leading up to the Crusades were to retake the LANDS taken BY MUSLIMS.  EVENTUALLY leading to take back the Jerusalem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The why did the Crusaders sack Constantinople when it was under Byzantine rule?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I referred to the beginning Crusade............by the 4th Crusade, which you are referencing the Crusade had grown to killing all who were in their path, including their own....................
> 
> The 4th Crusade actually weakened the defenses against the rise of the OTTOMANS............The Crusades were eventually a failure..............they eventually turned against the very reason they started to begin with............To protect Europe and keep Constantinople from falling to the Turks of that day and age.
> 
> It's failure, led to Centuries of control by the Turks.................who were not defeated again until WWII.
Click to expand...

WWI...


----------



## pismoe

mrobama is not doing enough in his pin prick strikes against isis and isis is spreading and growing 'moonglow' .  mrobama fail to support the 'pesh merga' and recently denied requested help to Jordan in the last week or so from what I have heard .


----------



## Penelope

The Irish Ram said:


> How about now?  How about 2015.  Is there a problem?  Who is creating the problem?  Is there a particular religious group that is causing upheaval worldwide?  Do the Crusades have anything to do with this problem?  Are Christians creating no-go zones and demanding death to all those who mock Jesus?  Find a video of Christians chanting Jesus, Jesus while they slaughter school children at their desk?  No?  Then why are we making it an issue?  When ever Obama deflects, he's up to something.
> 
> And to prove a point, Lakota, what was the % of Native Americans that had a problem with the Washington Redskins in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and why so shy about your discontent?   Why did Obama have to tell you to be offended before you became offended?
> Obama takes the spotlight off of his behind the scenes agenda by making a football team's name your agenda.  Good work.



Aren't  Zionist taking over Israel under the Jewish delusion that God gave them the land , so ancient history is come back to haunt us.  Radical anything is not good.


----------



## eagle1462010

Moonglow said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> interesting factoid
> 
> obama has killed more folks with his dronestrikers
> 
> then the spanish Inquisition
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet the right claims Oblama has done nothing against Muslim terrorist...Which is it going to be?
Click to expand...

Since when did Obama have anything to do with the Crusades.............this goes to all..............

This whole discussion is about BLOW back on his statements.......................Who basically condemned the Crusades and compared them to modern day terrorism.............................

What his statement didn't show is the Conquest of the West and Europe by Muslims during this time period.................

And that the original CALL TO ARMS of the Crusades was to save Constantinople from the TURKS of that day.

Later, the Crusades changed to utter insanity as they killed their own as they didn't have the numbers or the money to proceed................Unsupported they chose the path to kill and main their own kind who refused to support them, in kind of a PAYBACK SITUATION....................

To them they came to fight for the church..................ONLY TO BE ABANDONED BY THE CHURCH...........so they attacked the church in response............leading to losses and expansion of the TURKS.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

Dogmaphobe said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> As a historical discussion, the Crusades were fascinating.
> 
> As a strategy the PC Police use to transparently deflect for the PC-protected religion, not so much.
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to give JoeB a break here. He was not blessed with average intelligence, and so all he is capable of is this pattern of spouting a bunch of idiotic crap about "Zionists" and whathaveyou hoping it will stick.
> 
> Those who trot out  their "crusades" card to justify Islamic attitudes towards the west never quite get around to asking the same question in reverse, so their ignorant twaddle serves only the purpose of propaganda.
Click to expand...


LOL!

Let's take a second to consider Joe's point.  "The JEWS"... according to Joe and his Cult of Islam and the Ideological Left, are 'Zionists'; which is to say _Jews intent upon Conquest and Colonialism.
_
ROFLMNAO!  Now I've said that Joe and his cult are little more than EVIL.  And we know that EVIL's #1 tactic is DECEIT. 

So lets go to map, so that we can show the Reader, just how far these Jews have gone in their conquest to TURN THE WORLD INTO JEWS!  (Just for the sake of full disclosure the Green is Current Islam and the Yellow is where Islam is presently working on plans to expand.)






SOoo...  does that help demonstrate the intrinsic evil that is Joe and it's Islamo-Leftist Cult?
(Ya see they're claiming that THE JEWS are the problem and the Muslims, well... they're just trying to peacefully co-exist with their neighbors.)


----------



## eagle1462010

Moonglow said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> http:The *Battle of Tours* (October 732),[27] also called the *Battle of Poitiers* and in Arabic: معركة بلاط الشهداء‎ (_ma'arakat Balâṭ ash-Shuhadâ_ - _Battle of the Palace of Martyrs_)[28][29][30] was fought in an area between the cities of Poitiers and Tours, in north-central France, near the village of Moussais-la-Bataille, about 20 kilometres (12 mi) northeast of Poitiers. The location of the battle was close to the border between the Frankish realm and then-independent Aquitaine. The battle pitted Frankish and Burgundian[31][32] forces under Austrasian Mayor of the Palace Charles Martel against an army of the Umayyad Caliphate led by 'Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi, Governor-General of al-Andalus//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours
> 
> The battle of Tours in Central France finally stopped the Muslim Caliphate which had conquered all of Northern Africa, Spain, Sicily, and failed to conquer France and the rest of Europe.
> 
> A turning point in the War against RADICAL ISLAM in Medieval times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no real evidence that Tours was anything more than a raiding party.
> 
> But do keep on with your paranoia.
> 
> There's a big sweaty Arab man hiding under your bed right now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This thread is about the CRUSADES..........remember............
> 
> BACK ON TOPIC.............The MUSLIM CALIPHATE was stopped.........A turning point against the ISLAMIC States trying to dominate the world,
> 
> The events leading up to the Crusades were to retake the LANDS taken BY MUSLIMS.  EVENTUALLY leading to take back the Jerusalem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The why did the Crusaders sack Constantinople when it was under Byzantine rule?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I referred to the beginning Crusade............by the 4th Crusade, which you are referencing the Crusade had grown to killing all who were in their path, including their own....................
> 
> The 4th Crusade actually weakened the defenses against the rise of the OTTOMANS............The Crusades were eventually a failure..............they eventually turned against the very reason they started to begin with............To protect Europe and keep Constantinople from falling to the Turks of that day and age.
> 
> It's failure, led to Centuries of control by the Turks.................who were not defeated again until WWII.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WWI...
Click to expand...

oops didn't see the double II.............THANKS FOR THE CORRECTION.


----------



## Moonglow

eagle1462010 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's no real evidence that Tours was anything more than a raiding party.
> 
> But do keep on with your paranoia.
> 
> There's a big sweaty Arab man hiding under your bed right now.
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about the CRUSADES..........remember............
> 
> BACK ON TOPIC.............The MUSLIM CALIPHATE was stopped.........A turning point against the ISLAMIC States trying to dominate the world,
> 
> The events leading up to the Crusades were to retake the LANDS taken BY MUSLIMS.  EVENTUALLY leading to take back the Jerusalem
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The why did the Crusaders sack Constantinople when it was under Byzantine rule?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I referred to the beginning Crusade............by the 4th Crusade, which you are referencing the Crusade had grown to killing all who were in their path, including their own....................
> 
> The 4th Crusade actually weakened the defenses against the rise of the OTTOMANS............The Crusades were eventually a failure..............they eventually turned against the very reason they started to begin with............To protect Europe and keep Constantinople from falling to the Turks of that day and age.
> 
> It's failure, led to Centuries of control by the Turks.................who were not defeated again until WWII.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WWI...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> oops didn't see the double II.............THANKS FOR THE CORRECTION.
Click to expand...

No problamo, I do it also....I have fat fingers and shake....that is why I add so many periods at the end...


----------



## jon_berzerk

eagle1462010 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> interesting factoid
> 
> obama has killed more folks with his dronestrikers
> 
> then the spanish Inquisition
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet the right claims Oblama has done nothing against Muslim terrorist...Which is it going to be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when did Obama have anything to do with the Crusades.............this goes to all..............
> 
> This whole discussion is about BLOW back on his statements.......................Who basically condemned the Crusades and compared them to modern day terrorism.............................
> 
> What his statement didn't show is the Conquest of the West and Europe by Muslims during this time period.................
> 
> And that the original CALL TO ARMS of the Crusades was to save Constantinople from the TURKS of that day.
> 
> Later, the Crusades changed to utter insanity as they killed their own as they didn't have the numbers or the money to proceed................Unsupported they chose the path to kill and main their own kind who refused to support them, in kind of a PAYBACK SITUATION....................
> 
> To them they came to fight for the church..................ONLY TO BE ABANDONED BY THE CHURCH...........so they attacked the church in response............leading to losses and expansion of the TURKS.
Click to expand...



exactly 

the prezbo was talkin out his ass on the crusades


----------



## Moonglow

jon_berzerk said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> interesting factoid
> 
> obama has killed more folks with his dronestrikers
> 
> then the spanish Inquisition
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet the right claims Oblama has done nothing against Muslim terrorist...Which is it going to be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when did Obama have anything to do with the Crusades.............this goes to all..............
> 
> This whole discussion is about BLOW back on his statements.......................Who basically condemned the Crusades and compared them to modern day terrorism.............................
> 
> What his statement didn't show is the Conquest of the West and Europe by Muslims during this time period.................
> 
> And that the original CALL TO ARMS of the Crusades was to save Constantinople from the TURKS of that day.
> 
> Later, the Crusades changed to utter insanity as they killed their own as they didn't have the numbers or the money to proceed................Unsupported they chose the path to kill and main their own kind who refused to support them, in kind of a PAYBACK SITUATION....................
> 
> To them they came to fight for the church..................ONLY TO BE ABANDONED BY THE CHURCH...........so they attacked the church in response............leading to losses and expansion of the TURKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> exactly
> 
> the prezbo was talkin out his ass on the crusades
Click to expand...

Actually if you read the entire statement it is relevant, but what is being argued about is only about what was said partially...


----------



## jon_berzerk

Moonglow said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> interesting factoid
> 
> obama has killed more folks with his dronestrikers
> 
> then the spanish Inquisition
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet the right claims Oblama has done nothing against Muslim terrorist...Which is it going to be?
Click to expand...



indeed

 the reference is to citizens outside of the declared warzone 

collateral damage so to speak 

but hey who counts those in this day and age  


--LOL


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

Zionism -v- Islam ​*BEWARE ZIONISM!​*



Does anyone see any reason to believe that Islam is _ZIONISTIC?_​


----------



## jon_berzerk

Moonglow said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pismoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> lots of people talk about the Crusades but they talk about the Crusades like they know what they are talking about .  Liars can then exploit ignorance and claim that the Crusaders were as bad as the islamic jihadists 'jihads' that are murdering today .   Anyway , this video explains the Crusades and the reason for the Crusades .  ---  Take Five Minutes And Watch The Spread Of Islam Via Jihad Before The Crusades 8902 Dc Gazette#  ---   check it out , see what you think .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> interesting factoid
> 
> obama has killed more folks with his dronestrikers
> 
> then the spanish Inquisition
> 
> --LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yet the right claims Oblama has done nothing against Muslim terrorist...Which is it going to be?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Since when did Obama have anything to do with the Crusades.............this goes to all..............
> 
> This whole discussion is about BLOW back on his statements.......................Who basically condemned the Crusades and compared them to modern day terrorism.............................
> 
> What his statement didn't show is the Conquest of the West and Europe by Muslims during this time period.................
> 
> And that the original CALL TO ARMS of the Crusades was to save Constantinople from the TURKS of that day.
> 
> Later, the Crusades changed to utter insanity as they killed their own as they didn't have the numbers or the money to proceed................Unsupported they chose the path to kill and main their own kind who refused to support them, in kind of a PAYBACK SITUATION....................
> 
> To them they came to fight for the church..................ONLY TO BE ABANDONED BY THE CHURCH...........so they attacked the church in response............leading to losses and expansion of the TURKS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> exactly
> 
> the prezbo was talkin out his ass on the crusades
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually if you read the entire statement it is relevant, but what is being argued about is only about what was said partially...
Click to expand...



the prezbo is an idiot 

the next time a christian 

straps on a suicide belt 

and runs into a mosque 

and blows the place up while yelling 

god is great 

let the board know 

--LOL


----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## eagle1462010




----------



## eagle1462010

40 Maps That Explain The Middle East


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> This thread is about the CRUSADES..........remember............
> 
> BACK ON TOPIC.............The MUSLIM CALIPHATE was stopped.........A turning point against the ISLAMIC States trying to dominate the world,
> 
> The events leading up to the Crusades were to retake the LANDS taken BY MUSLIMS. EVENTUALLY leading to take back the Jerusalem



For less than 100 years.  And in exchange for that, Byzantium was so weakened the Ottomans were able to waltz into Europe.   

How was this a good idea again?


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> Mother's should teach their children that two wrongs do not make a right. And Mother's should also teach their children that _it is *NEVER* WRONG to defend innocent people from the savagery of a brutal cult. _
> 
> Therefore a Mother would teach her children that the Crusades, wherein Christian's rescued Christians from the savage rule of Muslims, _were *NOT* WRONG_; that such was decidedly *RIGHT... *_and a very* GOOD THING*_. That the Crusades were a very minor series of battles fought in _RESPONSE TO AND WHICH QUELLED A MASSIVE INVASION _of a *demonic cult,* the result of which is what we know today, as* "The Dark Ages!".*



Unless mothers are qualified history teachers, you should probably take what she says with a grain of salt. 

Point is, both sides could list a whole bunch of greivences on the other in their 1400 year game of "My Sky Pixie has a bigger dick than Your Sky Pixie"


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is about the CRUSADES..........remember............
> 
> BACK ON TOPIC.............The MUSLIM CALIPHATE was stopped.........A turning point against the ISLAMIC States trying to dominate the world,
> 
> The events leading up to the Crusades were to retake the LANDS taken BY MUSLIMS. EVENTUALLY leading to take back the Jerusalem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For less than 100 years.  And in exchange for that, Byzantium was so weakened the Ottomans were able to waltz into Europe.
> 
> How was this a good idea again?
Click to expand...

and as you ignore the HISTORY that forced the fight....................as has already been shown.............

In current day France the CALIPHATE failed...............As the Caliphate had taken North Africa and SPAIN.............

The Muslims were at their door step......................

Would you have just converted to ISLAM AND BEEN THEIR BITCH.


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> I referred to the beginning Crusade............by the 4th Crusade, which you are referencing the Crusade had grown to killing all who were in their path, including their own....................
> 
> The 4th Crusade actually weakened the defenses against the rise of the OTTOMANS............The Crusades were eventually a failure..............they eventually turned against the very reason they started to begin with............To protect Europe and keep Constantinople from falling to the Turks of that day and age.
> 
> It's failure, led to Centuries of control by the Turks.................who were not defeated again until WWII.



Um, the Turks were neutral in World War II.  

Is all your history this shoddy?  

the Crusades were a failure because they were a terrible idea.


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mother's should teach their children that two wrongs do not make a right. And Mother's should also teach their children that _it is *NEVER* WRONG to defend innocent people from the savagery of a brutal cult. _
> 
> Therefore a Mother would teach her children that the Crusades, wherein Christian's rescued Christians from the savage rule of Muslims, _were *NOT* WRONG_; that such was decidedly *RIGHT... *_and a very* GOOD THING*_. That the Crusades were a very minor series of battles fought in _RESPONSE TO AND WHICH QUELLED A MASSIVE INVASION _of a *demonic cult,* the result of which is what we know today, as* "The Dark Ages!".*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless mothers are qualified history teachers, you should probably take what she says with a grain of salt.
> 
> Point is, both sides could list a whole bunch of greivences on the other in their 1400 year game of "My Sky Pixie has a bigger dick than Your Sky Pixie"
Click to expand...

again an ignorance in HISTORY.............

As the Christians were performing Peaceful Pilgrimage to Jerusalem before the early Turks...........they increased Trade and prosperity for the people in the Middle East, until the Muslims decided to INVADE..............and say convert or die.


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> and as you ignore the HISTORY that forced the fight....................as has already been shown.............
> 
> In current day France the CALIPHATE failed...............As the Caliphate had taken North Africa and SPAIN.............
> 
> The Muslims were at their door step......................
> 
> Would you have just converted to ISLAM AND BEEN THEIR BITCH.



I don't think I'd want to be a Christian or a Muslim in 8th century Europe.   The whole period was full of major suckage and short brutish lives.  And no WiFi.  

But to say that one group of 8th century savages were somehow better than another is kind of silly.  Technologically, politically, scientifically, the Muslims actually had the upper hand, in terms of trade, commerce, etc.  Europe didn't really come into its own until it had the resources of the Americas to exploit.  

that is when they weren't killing each other over whether Jesus was made of wafers or not.


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> again an ignorance in HISTORY.............
> 
> As the Christians were performing Peaceful Pilgrimage to Jerusalem before the early Turks...........they increased Trade and prosperity for the people in the Middle East, until the Muslims decided to INVADE..............and say convert or die.



Again, this is the guy who thinks the turks were defeated in World War II....


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I referred to the beginning Crusade............by the 4th Crusade, which you are referencing the Crusade had grown to killing all who were in their path, including their own....................
> 
> The 4th Crusade actually weakened the defenses against the rise of the OTTOMANS............The Crusades were eventually a failure..............they eventually turned against the very reason they started to begin with............To protect Europe and keep Constantinople from falling to the Turks of that day and age.
> 
> It's failure, led to Centuries of control by the Turks.................who were not defeated again until WWII.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Um, the Turks were neutral in World War II.
> 
> Is all your history this shoddy?
> 
> the Crusades were a failure because they were a terrible idea.
Click to expand...

Again you ignorance shines through........................

I was talking about the History I've already shown.............when they controlled most of the land from Mongolia to almost Constantinople....................

They were the SEED of the OTTOMANS....................and Turkey was beaten in WWI and lost their control........which is why they didn't fight in WWII...............

Yet they had no problem committing GENOCIDE on the Armenians and placing their heads on pikes now did they.


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> and as you ignore the HISTORY that forced the fight....................as has already been shown.............
> 
> In current day France the CALIPHATE failed...............As the Caliphate had taken North Africa and SPAIN.............
> 
> The Muslims were at their door step......................
> 
> Would you have just converted to ISLAM AND BEEN THEIR BITCH.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think I'd want to be a Christian or a Muslim in 8th century Europe.   The whole period was full of major suckage and short brutish lives.  And no WiFi.
> 
> But to say that one group of 8th century savages were somehow better than another is kind of silly.  Technologically, politically, scientifically, the Muslims actually had the upper hand, in terms of trade, commerce, etc.  Europe didn't really come into its own until it had the resources of the Americas to exploit.
> 
> that is when they weren't killing each other over whether Jesus was made of wafers or not.
Click to expand...

As you ignore why the Crusades happened to begin with all together................The Church sanctioned it as they knew it was the way to get the numbers needed to turn the tide.......................

It worked for a while, and then they abandoned the Crusades leading to blow back in the day..........as the 4th Crusade turned on them as they were left out to dry by the Church.


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> again an ignorance in HISTORY.............
> 
> As the Christians were performing Peaceful Pilgrimage to Jerusalem before the early Turks...........they increased Trade and prosperity for the people in the Middle East, until the Muslims decided to INVADE..............and say convert or die.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, this is the guy who thinks the turks were defeated in World War II....
Click to expand...

Again you twist the facts of the thread to defend your position.

aka YOU LIE................to quote a phrase used against your sugar daddy.............

What have you brought to this thread but LIES..............what sites have you quoted to confirm your position...........

Other than you are an Atheist who enjoys attacking any religion..........and ignore the barbaric attrocities of ISIS and would rather blame Christians for acts made over 800 years ago............that we have proven to initially be caused by the Muslims invading them.

YEP.......YOU'D BE THEIR BITCH.


----------



## pismoe

yep , the little I know about it it looks to me like the muslims started it by invading hundreds of years ago and now it looks like they are just continuing with 'isis' . If isis types were to win then the socalled peaceful muslims would just fall in line and go along so they could get along .


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> Again you ignorance shines through........................
> 
> I was talking about the History I've already shown.............when they controlled most of the land from Mongolia to almost Constantinople....................
> 
> They were the SEED of the OTTOMANS....................and Turkey was beaten in WWI and lost their control........which is why they didn't fight in WWII...............



But you said WWII was when they were defeated? Do you even proofread?  Actualy, the Ottoman Empire had been in decline long before WWI.  It had lost Romania, Serbia, Greece, Egypt, Tunis, Morroco, Algeria, etc.  

And then some wonderful British people said, "Hey, if you Arabs rise up in revolt against the Ottomans, we promise to give you their land!"  

Yeah that was bright. 





eagle1462010 said:


> Yet they had no problem committing GENOCIDE on the Armenians and placing their heads on pikes now did they.



and Americans had no problem committing genocide on Native Americans and collecting the scalps of women and children.


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> Again you twist the facts of the thread to defend your position.
> 
> aka YOU LIE................to quote a phrase used against your sugar daddy.............
> 
> What have you brought to this thread but LIES..............what sites have you quoted to confirm your position...........
> 
> Other than you are an Atheist who enjoys attacking any religion..........and ignore the barbaric attrocities of ISIS and would rather blame Christians for acts made over 800 years ago............that we have proven to initially be caused by the Muslims invading them.
> 
> YEP.......YOU'D BE THEIR BITCH.



Well, guy, Living in the 8th century without WiFi or book learning, I'd probably believe in whatever sky pixies happened to be around.  

I don't "Blame" Christians for the crusades, I just point out they had a lasting effect on how that part of the world sees the west.  So does colonialism, where most of those countries were looted by the British or the French at some point.

But again- why is the MY Problem, exactly?  You guys stir up the hornets and then bitch about getting stung.


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> As you ignore why the Crusades happened to begin with all together................The Church sanctioned it as they knew it was the way to get the numbers needed to turn the tide.......................



The Church sanctioned it because there was a Pope who was fighting against an Anti-Pope.  

And it was an incredibly stupid idea that actualy made matters worse.


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As you ignore why the Crusades happened to begin with all together................The Church sanctioned it as they knew it was the way to get the numbers needed to turn the tide.......................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Church sanctioned it because there was a Pope who was fighting against an Anti-Pope.
> 
> And it was an incredibly stupid idea that actualy made matters worse.
Click to expand...

aka the West had been driving them out of their regions from the hundreds of years of WAR in the name of ISLAM VIA THE CALIPHATE..............

and here they are coming again..............

In you little world they should have just put out a WELCOME MAT.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Unless mothers are qualified history teachers, you should probably take what she says with a grain of salt.
> 
> Point is, both sides could list a whole bunch of greivences on the other in their 1400 year game of "My Sky Pixie has a bigger dick than Your Sky Pixie"



ROFLMNAO! 

AHH!!  So only the high priests of history, can_ teach history_?

And this barbarism you feel is somehow offset by your irrational references to reality as being a function of a "Sky-pixie"?

LOL!  You are one seriously disordered mental-case.

(The Reader should expect the above cited contributor to launch into a tirade which should likely include the words: _DENIER!, _*HERETIC!, *REACTIONARY! and the always entertaining *Kafir*_... _in the fairly near future.)


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again you twist the facts of the thread to defend your position.
> 
> aka YOU LIE................to quote a phrase used against your sugar daddy.............
> 
> What have you brought to this thread but LIES..............what sites have you quoted to confirm your position...........
> 
> Other than you are an Atheist who enjoys attacking any religion..........and ignore the barbaric attrocities of ISIS and would rather blame Christians for acts made over 800 years ago............that we have proven to initially be caused by the Muslims invading them.
> 
> YEP.......YOU'D BE THEIR BITCH.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, guy, Living in the 8th century without WiFi or book learning, I'd probably believe in whatever sky pixies happened to be around.
> 
> I don't "Blame" Christians for the crusades, I just point out they had a lasting effect on how that part of the world sees the west.  So does colonialism, where most of those countries were looted by the British or the French at some point.
> 
> But again- why is the MY Problem, exactly?  You guys stir up the hornets and then bitch about getting stung.
Click to expand...


What and who you 'blame' is irrelevant, as the species of thought through which which you reason is known as relativism... and Relativists are idiots.  Their input being useful purely for the entertainment of the we, the non-idiots.  

Should you ever find yourself capable of dealing with cause and effect, please... be sure to check_ back with us._


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> aka the West had been driving them out of their regions from the hundreds of years of WAR in the name of ISLAM VIA THE CALIPHATE..............
> 
> and here they are coming again..............
> 
> In you little world they should have just put out a WELCOME MAT.



You kn ow, when you nutters say "Caliphate" like that's a real thing, I just have to laugh at you.  

What would you be without your irrational fears?


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> What and who you 'blame' is irrelevant, as the species of thought through which which you reason is known as relativism... and Relativists are idiots. Their input being useful purely for the entertainment of the we, the non-idiots.
> 
> Should you ever find yourself capable of dealing with cause and effect, please... be sure to check_ back with us._



Sure, I understand cause and effect. 

If we support Zionism, invade their countries and mock their religion, we really, really shouldn't whine about a little blow back.  

Especially when we arm the guys who turn on us like we did with bin Laden.


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> ROFLMNAO!
> 
> AHH!! So only the high priests of history, can_ teach history_?
> 
> And this barbarism you feel is somehow offset by your irrational references to reality as being a function of a "Sky-pixie"?
> 
> LOL! You are one seriously disordered mental-case.
> 
> (The Reader should expect the above cited contributor to launch into a tirade which should likely include the words: _DENIER!, _*HERETIC!, *REACTIONARY! and the always entertaining *Kafir*_... _in the fairly near future.)



When you are done beating up those straw men, let me know. 

There are no sky pixies, and watching you guys claim Naked Guy on a Stick is better than Guy from the desert is kind of silly to watch.  

Now, if we can get to the point where people stop believing in Gods and Religions and Prophets... that would an accomplishment.


----------



## pismoe

not going to happen 'joe'.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Penelope said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about now?  How about 2015.  Is there a problem?  Who is creating the problem?  Is there a particular religious group that is causing upheaval worldwide?  Do the Crusades have anything to do with this problem?  Are Christians creating no-go zones and demanding death to all those who mock Jesus?  Find a video of Christians chanting Jesus, Jesus while they slaughter school children at their desk?  No?  Then why are we making it an issue?  When ever Obama deflects, he's up to something.
> 
> And to prove a point, Lakota, what was the % of Native Americans that had a problem with the Washington Redskins in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and why so shy about your discontent?   Why did Obama have to tell you to be offended before you became offended?
> Obama takes the spotlight off of his behind the scenes agenda by making a football team's name your agenda.  Good work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't  Zionist taking over Israel under the Jewish delusion that God gave them the land , so ancient history is come back to haunt us.  Radical anything is not good.
Click to expand...


When Samuel Clemens went to the Middle East in the late 1800's he described a desolate deserted piece of land where he saw a, as in one,  nomad.  That was the extent of Israel.  The delusion  that we handed over a thriving metropolis to Israel at the end of WW2 is not factual.  The Jews have made Israel what it is today.  Britain gave them the land, and God gathered them home. 
The question you seem to overlook completely is, "Aren't the Muslims trying to take over Israel under the delusion that God wants them to have the land?"  Radical Islam is not good.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> ROFLMNAO!
> 
> AHH!! So only the high priests of history, can_ teach history_?
> 
> And this barbarism you feel is somehow offset by your irrational references to reality as being a function of a "Sky-pixie"?
> 
> LOL! You are one seriously disordered mental-case.
> 
> (The Reader should expect the above cited contributor to launch into a tirade which should likely include the words: _DENIER!, _*HERETIC!, *REACTIONARY! and the always entertaining *Kafir*_... _in the fairly near future.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you are done beating up those straw men, let me know.
Click to expand...


ROFLMNAO!  Adorable... you project 'sky pixies', which is straw reasoning, even as you lament straw reasoning.

I NEVER tire of Leftists committing the very crimes they are projecting upon others.

In point of fact, my reasoning spoke directly to your argument, refuting it entirely, through biting sarcasm, pointing to the feckless, irrational nature of such.



JoeB131 said:


> There are no sky pixies...



There are not... and no one here, or anywhere else is known to have referenced such, except the lowly and wholly irrational anti-theist.  Yet, they reference the 'sky-pixie' as if it were the purest essence of reason.

_Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> yeah. ISIL Isn't hitler. Boko Harem isn't Hitler.  Saddam Wasn't Hitler.   and, no, none of these things are OUR problems. It's the Oil Companies Problem. It's the Zionists problem. It isn't OUR problem.
> 
> ....Here's the thing.  The Zionists and Oil companies want us in wars in that region, but what's in it for the rest of us?



Dear JoeB131
I'd say ALL the above are acting as Hitler's by oppressing people.
And YES Saddam committed genocidal violence in the spirit of antichrist as did Hitler
and so do the Boko Haram.

All of these acts of retribution WITHOUT due process of laws are antichrist.

And YES when corporations and Zionists ALSO act without defense and protection of individual rights,
they too are acting as OPPRESSORS and not respecting due process and right to petition for redress of grievances
as just govt is called to do by natural laws of democratic governance.

So YES these are also antichrist if they rebel against natural laws of peace justice and freedom.
If they abuse authority for GREED for power that is antichrist.


----------



## JoeB131

The Irish Ram said:


> I can't tell you how "naked guy on a stick" offends me. ...
> Your lack of respect for others is disturbing. It is your prerogative not to believe. It isn't necessary to disrespect those that do.



You believe in base Bronze Age Superstitions.  You deserve every bit of disrespect I throw at you.


----------



## JoeB131

emilynghiem said:


> I'd say ALL the above are acting as Hitler's by oppressing people.
> And YES Saddam committed genocidal violence in the spirit of antichrist as did Hitler
> and so do the Boko Haram.
> 
> All of these acts of retribution WITHOUT due process of laws are antichrist.



Lady, when you start babbling about "anti-Christ", I just can't take you seriously.  I mean, I really just can't.


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> ROFLMNAO! Adorable... you project 'sky pixies', which is straw reasoning, even as you lament straw reasoning.
> 
> I NEVER tire of Leftists committing the very crimes they are projecting upon others.
> 
> In point of fact, my reasoning spoke directly to your argument, refuting it entirely, through biting sarcasm, pointing to the feckless, irrational nature of such.



Kids, the above ^^^^ Is what happens when a stupid person tries to sound smart.  




Where_r_my_Keys said:


> There are not... and no one here, or anywhere else is known to have referenced such, except the lowly and wholly irrational anti-theist. Yet, they reference the 'sky-pixie' as if it were the purest essence of reason.
> 
> _Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._



Guy, you can't claim victory when you haven't even made an argument. 

Here's the thing.  God is what primitive people called all the things they didn't understand.  

But we have science and space shuttles and internet now.  

So the notion of us playing "Our Sky Pixie can Kick your Sky Pixie's Ass" is just kind of silly.


----------



## The Irish Ram

You don't have to share my opinions for me to treat you with common decency.  I shouldn't have to believe what you believe to be treated with respect.  You lack the ability to see beyond your own importance.

Maybe the religious forum isn't for you, Joe.


----------



## MaryL

Islam started the crusades by invading the holy land and shutting  the Christians  out? And they  created the whole mess to begin with?  Well, bucko, we already knew that, and muslims are ever ready to prove what ash*les they are with that made up imaginary religion of theirs. They chop a head here and there, do mass executions, burn people  to death that is their thing. Islam means submission. I won't in a million years  submit to the imaginary  flying spaghetti  monster. Death to Allah.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say ALL the above are acting as Hitler's by oppressing people.
> And YES Saddam committed genocidal violence in the spirit of antichrist as did Hitler
> and so do the Boko Haram.
> 
> All of these acts of retribution WITHOUT due process of laws are antichrist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lady, when you start babbling about "anti-Christ", I just can't take you seriously.  I mean, I really just can't.
Click to expand...


OK JoeB131 
So what term DO you want to use for this.

Do you agree to call Hitler a Jihadist?
And say that all Jews Christians and Muslims should unite and agree to stop ALL Jihadists?

My point is not to confuse with religious labels, blaming Christians or Muslims etc.

What COMMON TERM would you use to call this so EVERYONE
is is agreement regardless what faith we are or aren't.

Retributive Justice?
Anyone who enforces Retributive Justice is causing damage by waging war, and anyone who
enforces Restorative Justice is on the side of justice and peace for all humanity?

is is Coercion by force?
And the proper way to enforce laws is by consensus by free choice?

What do you call the offending factor behind political oppression, violence and injustice?


----------



## emilynghiem

The Irish Ram said:


> Maybe the religious forum isn't for you, Joe.  Do we have a bitter nasty piece of work forum?



Jesus came for the sick not the well.

If Joe is seeking the answers and solutions to end the nastiness in the world he hates so much
what better place to seek answers than among people who have found ways to risk above the sickness and not fall into it.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> Guy, you can't claim victory when you haven't even made an argument.
> 
> Here's the thing.  God is what primitive people called all the things they didn't understand.
> 
> But we have science and space shuttles and internet now.
> 
> So the notion of us playing "Our Sky Pixie can Kick your Sky Pixie's Ass" is just kind of silly.



Hi JoeB131 
I think it would help to make a distinction between the
manmade gods idols and religions,
and understand that there are universal laws that are true regardless.
Like you mention science.

Man didn't invent the laws of science, but we use them as tools to create.
and yes scientific knowledge has also led to abuse of technology to destroy.

laws of science exist first
and then man tries to discover those and write them down and use them.

same with religions that 
discover universal laws and try to write them down and live by them.

these aren't perfect either,
and yes religions can be abused just like science can be.

so we try to stop the abuses, and make corrections,
and stick to the pre existing laws and not overwrite them with fake religion or fake science.

we try to be consistent.
you are right these can be and are abused.
but that doesn't change the fact there are
universal laws underneath that exist anyway,
even if humans get these wrong when we attempt to define these laws using our own manmade terms for them.


----------



## JoeB131

The Irish Ram said:


> Maybe the religious forum isn't for you, Joe.  Do we have a bitter nasty piece of work forum?



1) This is the History Forum.  

2) Pointing out that you religious types believe in backward superstitions is hardly being "bitter". 

When I realized that there wasn't a God and those Nuns had been lying to me for all those years, my life actually got a lot better.


----------



## JoeB131

emilynghiem said:


> Jesus came for the sick not the well.
> 
> If Joe is seeking the answers and solutions to end the nastiness in the world he hates so much
> what better place to seek answers than among people who have found ways to risk above the sickness and not fall into it.



religion doesn't solve nastiness.  Religion CAUSES nastiness.  Religion gives nasty people validation to be nasty because their Imaginary Friend in the Sky says their bad behavior is okay. 

And, yes, the Muslims are just as guilty of this as CHristians are.


----------



## JoeB131

emilynghiem said:


> So what term DO you want to use for this.
> 
> Do you agree to call Hitler a Jihadist?



No, that's fucking retarded.  

Hitler was a Christian.  Hitler did everything he did with the full endorsement of the Pope because the Pope was shitting his dress over the thought that those bad old Communists might abolish religion and then he'd have to get on a sex offender registry.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Whatever forum it is your lack of respect for those you don't believe what you do is appalling.  You realizing there is no God won't be confirmed until you die. Personally I think you are in for a rude awakening, nevertheless, whatever you believe is no reason for me to treat you as poorly as you treat others.  It's called common decency.
There is a God, and the Nuns didn't lie to you.  Satan is..........
Too bad the Nuns didn't teach you how to treat others.

Hitler was about as Christian as you are.  And neither of you developed any social skills.  I doubt the Nuns were responsible for that.


----------



## JoeB131

The Irish Ram said:


> Whatever forum it is your lack of respect for those you don't believe what you do is appalling.  You realizing there is no God won't be confirmed until you die. Personally I think you are in for a rude awakening, nevertheless, whatever you believe is no reason for me to treat you as poorly as you treat others.  It's called common decency.
> There is a God, and the Nuns didn't lie to you.  Satan is..........
> Too bad the Nuns didn't teach you how to treat others.



Actually, if I died and met your God, the first thing I'd say is, 

"BONE CANCER IN CHILDREN. WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THAT?"

That's probably what I would say.  

However, Satan is the last of my worries, as he's largely a construct of mythology.  He's barely mentioned in the bible.  This video nails it.


----------



## The Irish Ram

Satan plays a large role in the Bible.  He is responsible for bone cancer, and every other ailment he can throw at mankind.  You not believing it doesn't make it fallacy. God never said that humans would not see trouble.  That's your errant belief.  He said He'd get us through it, and reward our faith in Him with eternal life.
Why would you worry about someone you are so faithful to?  You dismiss God, and thrill Satan.  He is indeed the least of your worries.  For now anyway......

When you meet "my" God, your mouth will be smarter than you are and  will utter nothing.  Your knees are smarter than you too.  They will hit the ground without your understanding.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what term DO you want to use for this.
> 
> Do you agree to call Hitler a Jihadist?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, that's fucking retarded.
> 
> Hitler was a Christian.  Hitler did everything he did with the full endorsement of the Pope because the Pope was shitting his dress over the thought that those bad old Communists might abolish religion and then he'd have to get on a sex offender registry.
Click to expand...


Ok JoeB131 
if you call Hitler a Christian, while Christians are saying no that's twisted.
that's why people are calling Jihadists Muslims, but Muslims protest and say no that's twisted.

I get it.

You don't trust Christians not to abuse their power and start wreaking havoc.
And other people don't trust Muslims not to let Jihadist take over and start waging war.

Now, given this mutual mistrust
how do we go about policing to prevent religious abuses without abridging religious freedom.

I suggest holding any religious organization or corporation
that licenses itself through the state to operate
to agree to the same Bill of Rights and 14th Amendment that govt has to follow.
Where individuals and beliefs are protected equally,
any grievances are redressed by due process, and consensus may be
required to resolve conflicts involving clashing beliefs so nobody's creed is violated excluded or discriminated against.

Do you agree that Constitutional principles
would then preclude anyone from abusing religion
like Hitler did or Jihadists do?

You can have religious freedom but cannot impose it on others,
There must be free will participation by informed consent,
and that is where the Hitler's and Jihadists of the world go wrong
is where they impose laws and punishments without due process,
acting as judge jury and executioner. So Constitutional standards
enforced equally by all followers would respect both religious freedom
and would also prohibit abuses, and everyone can choose to agree to this where it is not forced by coercion.

Would that help solve the problem of religious and political abuses?


----------



## JoeB131

The Irish Ram said:


> Satan plays a large role in the Bible. He is responsible for bone cancer, and every other ailment he can throw at mankind. You not believing it doesn't make it fallacy. God never said that humans would not see trouble. That's your errant belief. He said He'd get us through it, and reward our faith in Him with eternal life.



So god lets Satan give children BOne Cancer, just like he let Satan murder the Children of Job to prove that Job wouldn't love God.  That kind of make God kind of a prick.  I mean, if they were real.  I mean, Satan is what God made him.  I'd almost hold him blameless.  But God, who let us not forget, is omnipotent and omniscient, he knew what Satan was going to do the minute he created him. 

Doesn't that make God the Asshole?  



The Irish Ram said:


> Why would you worry about someone you are so faithful to? You dismiss God, and thrill Satan. He is indeed the least of your worries. For now anyway......



I don't worry about God.  I worry about stupid shits like you electing morons like George W. Bush because he's "Right with Jesus" and then watching him fuck things up for everyone.  



The Irish Ram said:


> When you meet "my" God, your mouth will be smarter than you are and will utter nothing. Your knees are smarter than you too. They will hit the ground without your understanding.



I refuse to believe that the universe is so badly designed that your God is in charge of it.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever forum it is your lack of respect for those you don't believe what you do is appalling.  You realizing there is no God won't be confirmed until you die. Personally I think you are in for a rude awakening, nevertheless, whatever you believe is no reason for me to treat you as poorly as you treat others.  It's called common decency.
> There is a God, and the Nuns didn't lie to you.  Satan is..........
> Too bad the Nuns didn't teach you how to treat others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, if I died and met your God, the first thing I'd say is,
> 
> "BONE CANCER IN CHILDREN. WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THAT?"
> 
> That's probably what I would say.
> 
> However, Satan is the last of my worries, as he's largely a construct of mythology.  He's barely mentioned in the bible.  This video nails it.
Click to expand...


Dear JoeB131 I have good news for you if you really want to see the cure of all cureable illness.
Spiritual healing ministries have successfully cured cases of cancer (and also other diseases)
by removing obstructions that prevent mind and body from healing naturally as designed.

Normally the body can shed cancer cells. But unforgiveness and holding onto resentment
and stress creates blocks where disease can build up in the body.
So spiritual healing based on forgiveness therapy facilitates natural healing
so the body can better fight and beat cancer.

For children born with diseases, some of these have been cured
by praying for removing generational sickness that otherwise blocks cure and health.

Not all diseases can be cured, but that's true of any treatment.

The successful results of spiritual healing have helped save
so many people who regained their minds, lives, health and relationships,
the positive results far outweigh the cases of only partial healing or no effect at all which is rare.
Most people report better health on some level after spiritual healing to remove negative blocks from unforgiven
conflicts that cause stress and burden on their mental and/or physical health, not to mention their relations with others.

See sources at freespiritualhealing Resources for Healing and Forgiveness Therapy
I personally know a volunteer counselor who focuses on healing cancer patients
and their families, and who has even helped an atheist friend of mine to get rid of demon rages
caused by abuse. So even an atheist can receive this help to forgive and heal of sickness.
His case was one of the worst, where the doctors are still amazed he is alive from all
the damage done to his body from drugs during the years he carried this rage and suppressed it.
His other friends have died of drug abuse, and he is the only one functioning and able to
recover from severe rage and anxiety disorders. the first step was to remove the demons,
and that part was done by Christian spiritual healing and deliverance so he could regain control of his mind back to normal.
After that, he could work out his recovery and medical treatment on his own. But not until after the demons were removed first. See Scott Peck's books on treating schizophrenic patients this way, to remove demonic voices and obsessions, also listed on that resource page. 

This is good news that so many diseases could be cured by addressing the root case,
where medicine alone is not enough.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> Satan plays a large role in the Bible. He is responsible for bone cancer, and every other ailment he can throw at mankind. You not believing it doesn't make it fallacy. God never said that humans would not see trouble. That's your errant belief. He said He'd get us through it, and reward our faith in Him with eternal life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So god lets Satan give children BOne Cancer, just like he let Satan murder the Children of Job to prove that Job wouldn't love God.  That kind of make God kind of a prick.  I mean, if they were real.  I mean, Satan is what God made him.  I'd almost hold him blameless.  But God, who let us not forget, is omnipotent and omniscient, he knew what Satan was going to do the minute he created him.
> 
> Doesn't that make God the Asshole?
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you worry about someone you are so faithful to? You dismiss God, and thrill Satan. He is indeed the least of your worries. For now anyway......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't worry about God.  I worry about stupid shits like you electing morons like George W. Bush because he's "Right with Jesus" and then watching him fuck things up for everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you meet "my" God, your mouth will be smarter than you are and will utter nothing. Your knees are smarter than you too. They will hit the ground without your understanding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I refuse to believe that the universe is so badly designed that your God is in charge of it.
Click to expand...


Dear JoeB131 Substitute "laws of Nature" for laws of God
and realize you cannot fight nature.

If smoking causes cancer, then you can't expect nature to radically reverse the effects of smoking.
You would have to quit the unhealthy behavior to stop the unhealthy consequences.

The more we get rid of unhealthy, imbalanced, and abusive behavior
you will see improvement of human health and the health of the planet.

Even Buddhists teach this without attributing it to a personal God.
There are laws of cause and effect in NATURE,
and of course the actions that are balanced and in harmony will produce healthy results
and the actions that are in conflict and cause disruption will yield negative results.

In this way, humans can learn by experience, by trial and error, by reason and free will
to seek what brings positive results and satisfaction in harmony with the whole,
and to avoid what causes conflicts suffering and negative results.

these are natural laws and all humans are subject to them.


----------



## eagle1462010

JoeB131 said:


> eagle1462010 said:
> 
> 
> 
> aka the West had been driving them out of their regions from the hundreds of years of WAR in the name of ISLAM VIA THE CALIPHATE..............
> 
> and here they are coming again..............
> 
> In you little world they should have just put out a WELCOME MAT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You kn ow, when you nutters say "Caliphate" like that's a real thing, I just have to laugh at you.
> 
> What would you be without your irrational fears?
Click to expand...

LOL

Referring to the history of the Caliphate that took SPAIN is irrational fear...................

I suppose they are waking from their graves and coming to get us.........right.....................

You are a lunatic.


----------



## The Irish Ram

> *Ephesians 4:18* - Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart...





> *Job 11:12* - For vain man would be wise, though man be born [like] a wild ass's colt



I'll leave you to it.............


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> The Irish Ram said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe the religious forum isn't for you, Joe.  Do we have a bitter nasty piece of work forum?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) This is the History Forum.
> 
> 2) Pointing out that you religious types believe in backward superstitions is hardly being "bitter".
> 
> When I realized that there wasn't a God and those Nuns had been lying to me for all those years, my life actually got a lot better.
Click to expand...


Hi JoeB131 There is nothing wrong or unbiblical about being a secular gentile under natural laws.
The same laws of Restorative Justice still apply.
My friends who are Atheist with the peace and justice movement
get along perfectly in harmony with Christians because of our shared faith in Restorative Justice.
If you read up on these methods of nonviolence
especially "nonviolent communication" I think you will be relieved
to know that Christians actively work with secular humanists on peace and justice
in effective ways that respect all views. Please look into Restorative Justice
and how this reconciles with Christianity. Sam Reese Sheppard Jr.
is a Buddhist activist with the peace and justice movement against the death penalty,
and you may also like Bernie Glassman a Zen Buddhist Jewish peace activist
who is all inclusive and universal in his approach to equal justice in society.

Many people find fulfillment this way, and it is not against the Bible
for gentiles to follow the natural laws by conscience and become a law unto themselves.
Christ Jesus still fulfills the natural laws by Restorative Justice that even secular humanists believe in.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus came for the sick not the well.
> 
> If Joe is seeking the answers and solutions to end the nastiness in the world he hates so much
> what better place to seek answers than among people who have found ways to risk above the sickness and not fall into it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> religion doesn't solve nastiness.  Religion CAUSES nastiness.  Religion gives nasty people validation to be nasty because their Imaginary Friend in the Sky says their bad behavior is okay.
> 
> And, yes, the Muslims are just as guilty of this as CHristians are.
Click to expand...


No JoeB131 
it is the UNFORGIVENESS that causes nastiness.

And yes you are right this is just as true for Muslims as Christians where unforgiveness causes nastiness.
some call this FEAR instead of love.

Even the Buddhists will teach to act out of
Wisdom (not fear of the unknown or ignorance)
Compassion (not anger or aggression)
Generosity (not greed)
in order to avoid suffering in life or making it worse.

This is just natural law, of how human nature works, independent of religion.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> ROFLMNAO! Adorable... you project 'sky pixies', which is straw reasoning, even as you lament straw reasoning.
> 
> I NEVER tire of Leftists committing the very crimes they are projecting upon others.
> 
> In point of fact, my reasoning spoke directly to your argument, refuting it entirely, through biting sarcasm, pointing to the feckless, irrational nature of such.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids, the above ^^^^ Is what happens when a stupid person tries to sound smart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are not... and no one here, or anywhere else is known to have referenced such, except the lowly and wholly irrational anti-theist. Yet, they reference the 'sky-pixie' as if it were the purest essence of reason.
> 
> _Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Guy, you can't claim victory when you haven't even made an argument.
Click to expand...


Sure ya can... I raced a guy a few years back, who had a 1200 HP Vette. That thing was a monster... I had absolutely no chance of winning... unless my superior luck prevailed and pulled me through another one.

Ya see, I had a 500HP Z28.  So, well, even you should be able to do that math on the probabilities in that one.

Well, the tree rockets down to the go light and I give it my patented launch, the wheels come up and we're gone!      I get the wholeshot, but as expected I see him bustin' out a split second behind me and almost instantly making up the car I stole from him, then... he just fades away and I go on about keepin' the pointy end up front, until it's over.

It turns out that dude detonated his tranny somewhere short of the 60' and as a result, I declared victory when I passed through the trap, nearly a full 1/8th mile ahead of 'im.  (FYI: See that's the point of racing... to see who wins, by getting to the end, first.)

So... Where you offered a fatally flawed argument and I recognize it as such, then belittle and berate you for it... That's me winning, with the argument that you and your argument suck, and why they suck...  Again. that is OKA: _Me *winning*_*.
*
See, to _win_ in debate, the absolutely LEAST that one must do, is that one must advance a logically valid, intellectually sound position, which also provides for an effective contest of the opposing point of view.  

Those who fail, _as you manage to do with remarkable consistency_,* LOSE*, _with remarkable consistency._

See how that works, _dumbass_?


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

emilynghiem said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus came for the sick not the well.
> 
> If Joe is seeking the answers and solutions to end the nastiness in the world he hates so much
> what better place to seek answers than among people who have found ways to risk above the sickness and not fall into it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> religion doesn't solve nastiness.  Religion CAUSES nastiness.  Religion gives nasty people validation to be nasty because their Imaginary Friend in the Sky says their bad behavior is okay.
> 
> And, yes, the Muslims are just as guilty of this as CHristians are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No JoeB131
> it is the UNFORGIVENESS that causes nastiness.
> 
> And yes you are right this is just as true for Muslims as Christians where unforgiveness causes nastiness.
> some call this FEAR instead of love.
> 
> Even the Buddhists will teach to act out of
> Wisdom (not fear of the unknown or ignorance)
> Compassion (not anger or aggression)
> Generosity (not greed)
> in order to avoid suffering in life or making it worse.
> 
> This is just natural law, of how human nature works, independent of religion.
Click to expand...


All great stuff.  But ya forgot to mention that Islam and Anti-theism, which is to say The Ideological Left... is _EVIL. Therefore, they both *reject* the principles you noted._


----------



## emilynghiem

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jesus came for the sick not the well.
> 
> If Joe is seeking the answers and solutions to end the nastiness in the world he hates so much
> what better place to seek answers than among people who have found ways to risk above the sickness and not fall into it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> religion doesn't solve nastiness.  Religion CAUSES nastiness.  Religion gives nasty people validation to be nasty because their Imaginary Friend in the Sky says their bad behavior is okay.
> 
> And, yes, the Muslims are just as guilty of this as CHristians are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No JoeB131
> it is the UNFORGIVENESS that causes nastiness.
> 
> And yes you are right this is just as true for Muslims as Christians where unforgiveness causes nastiness.
> some call this FEAR instead of love.
> 
> Even the Buddhists will teach to act out of
> Wisdom (not fear of the unknown or ignorance)
> Compassion (not anger or aggression)
> Generosity (not greed)
> in order to avoid suffering in life or making it worse.
> 
> This is just natural law, of how human nature works, independent of religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All great stuff.  But ya forgot to mention that Islam and Anti-theism, which is to say The Ideological Left... is _EVIL. Therefore, they both *reject* the principles you noted._
Click to expand...


Sure, people who reject out of FEAR and Unforgiveness invite evil and suffering and all manner of ill will.

Likewise people who FORGIVE and invite wisdom and truth, healing and compassion,
justice and peace for all humanity offset the forces of evil and ill will.

I know Muslims and Atheists on the side of Christ
who believe and work for the same Restorative Justice that Christ Jesus represents.

Even the Samaritan once considered the most unholiest of people
can serve as the good example of being your neighbor in Christ.


----------



## JoeB131

emilynghiem said:


> Dear JoeB131 I have good news for you if you really want to see the cure of all cureable illness.
> Spiritual healing ministries have successfully cured cases of cancer (and also other diseases)
> by removing obstructions that prevent mind and body from healing naturally as designed.



You know what, when I hear crazy shit like this, I just have to laugh you off.  

Okay, so if Faith Healing is a real thing and all....  how come God doesn't cure Amputees?


----------



## JoeB131

eagle1462010 said:


> Referring to the history of the Caliphate that took SPAIN is irrational fear...................



Yeah.  Because something that happened 1000 years ago... meh, not something to be rationally feared.  

Now, if there was a Jihadi Army in Mexico ready to invade, you might have a point. 
But some dipshit going over to Syria and getting beheaded for his trouble.  I just call that "Natural Selection".


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> Sure ya can... I raced a guy a few years back, who had a 1200 HP Vette. That thing was a monster... I had absolutely no chance of winning... unless my superior luck prevailed and pulled me through another one.



Are you telling me that you go around drag racing?   Wow... So you really are an asshole.


----------



## emilynghiem

JoeB131 said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear JoeB131 I have good news for you if you really want to see the cure of all cureable illness.
> Spiritual healing ministries have successfully cured cases of cancer (and also other diseases)
> by removing obstructions that prevent mind and body from healing naturally as designed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know what, when I hear crazy shit like this, I just have to laugh you off.
> 
> Okay, so if Faith Healing is a real thing and all....  how come God doesn't cure Amputees?
Click to expand...


Hi JoeB131
1. First, faith healing is not the same as the spiritual healing that is found to be effective and natural.
Faith healing usually refers to just declaring that healing should be commanded, so nothing is changed
to facilitate healing, so it does not work that way.
Spiritual healing that works uses forgiveness therapy to identify obstructions in the mind and body
keeping someone from healing naturally. So it uses the scientific method, of identifying what is the cause of the blockage, removing it, so the mind and body can heal. It works alongside medicine and science and doesn't reject either one, so all methods of healing mind/body and spirit are used TOGETHER to heal the whole person.

2. Asking "God to magically cure amputees" is like asking God to reinvent the laws of physics and biology
to turn a butterfly into an elephant, or to grow a mighty oak from a corn kernel instead of an acorn.
You cannot "will God" to violate the laws of nature.

It just makes sense that if someone's body is cut up or maimed by outside forces and physically damaged,
then it would take outside forces and physical procedures to repair that damage, such as artificial limbs.

If someone's sickness is caused by spiritual demons on a higher level, then it makes sense that prayers in Christ Jesus that connect and operate on that spiritual level can address that sickness on that level.

Human nature is mind, body and spirit. So these require the right treatment for each level.

So it makes sense that
* dealing with the spirit, the problems here requires spiritual therapy and treatment.
* Sickness or imbalance in the mind requires mental treatment and counseling of thoughts, memories and reactions that people can control with changing their perception and approaches.
* Damage or disease to the physical body requires medical treatment to address this.
You cannot expect to heal mind, body, and spirit by applying or denying the wrong treatment.

So all three levels need to be address accordingly, after proper diagnosis.

The laws of nature still apply. If the person has a stronger virus, like Ebola, that the normal human immune system cannot kill on its own, then you DON'T rely on just the body to heal itself, you use medicine that is designed to offset the symptoms and/or inject the antibodies to help the body fight off the invading virus.

If the invading entity is demonic or occult energy on the spiritual level, which is stronger than the human will can ward off on its own, then injecting stronger doses of positive energy through intercessory prayers can remove these negative influences and "voices" so the person can regain their normal mind again.

This is all consistent with science and natural laws of health and healing.
It just hasn't been fully researched and established yet, but those who have studied it,
found it to be safe natural and effective, and as Dr. Peck wrote in his books, he
strongly urged the medical and psychiatric professions to pursue formal research
to develop these as standard practices for diagnosis, treatment and cure as he adopted
into his own psychiatric practice after it was proven to him to work to cure schizophrenic
patients that didn't respond to treatment until after they went through deliverance therapy.

Dr. Phillip Goldfedder also changed from his neurosurgery practice to spiritual healing
therapy full time because it worked better to cure the causes, while surgery only addressed symptoms.

Spiritual healing does not replace the need for medicine and physical treatments for cases that require this,
but in many cases it can prevent the need for more invasive or expensive surgeries by curing the cause of conditions so that medication or surgery are no longer necessary. It depends on the case, and for amputees, this normally requires additional surgeries.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure ya can... I raced a guy a few years back, who had a 1200 HP Vette. That thing was a monster... I had absolutely no chance of winning... unless my superior luck prevailed and pulled me through another one.
> 
> Ya see, I had a 500HP Z28. So, well, even you should be able to do that math on the probabilities in that one.
> 
> Well, the tree rockets down to the go light and I give it my patented launch, the wheels come up and we're gone! I get the wholeshot, but as expected I see him bustin' out a split second behind me and almost instantly making up the car I stole from him, then... he just fades away and I go on about keepin' the pointy end up front, until it's over.
> 
> It turns out that dude detonated his tranny somewhere short of the 60' and as a result, I declared victory when I passed through the trap, nearly a full 1/8th mile ahead of 'im. (FYI: See that's the point of racing... to see who wins, by getting to the end, first.)
> 
> So... Where you offered a fatally flawed argument and I recognize it as such, then belittle and berate you for it... That's me winning, with the argument that you and your argument suck, and why they suck... Again. that is OKA: _Me *winning*_*.
> See, to win in debate, the absolutely LEAST that one must do, is that one must advance a logically valid, intellectually sound position, which also provides for an effective contest of the opposing point of view.
> 
> Those who fail, as you manage to do with remarkable consistency, LOSE, with remarkable consistency.
> 
> See how that works, dumbass?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you telling me that you go around drag racing?   Wow... So you really are an asshole.
Click to expand...


Oh on THAT, you can rest assured.  

_Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> Oh on THAT, you can rest assured.
> 
> _Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._



guy, you haven't done anything to concede to.... Frankly, you just keep going off on these weird tangents that have nothign to do with the OP.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh on THAT, you can rest assured.
> 
> _Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guy, you haven't done anything to concede to.... Frankly, you just keep going off on these weird tangents that have nothign to do with the OP.
Click to expand...


OH!  Now isn't that _precious?
_
FYI: Once you've conceded to the standing points, you're not required to continue to do so, but it is always nice when ya do.

You're continued need to concede that you've no means to sustain your defense of Islam through feckless anti-theist rants, is again, _duly noted and summarily accepted._


----------



## emilynghiem

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh on THAT, you can rest assured.
> 
> _Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guy, you haven't done anything to concede to.... Frankly, you just keep going off on these weird tangents that have nothign to do with the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OH!  Now isn't that _precious?
> _
> FYI: Once you've conceded to the standing points, you're not required to continue to do so, but it is always nice when ya do.
> 
> You're continued need to concede that you've no means to sustain your defense of Islam through feckless anti-theist rants, is again, _duly noted and summarily accepted._
Click to expand...


Simple it is easy to argue back and forth about OTHER groups like Jihadists
so the carnage can be blamed on something outside our control.

but bring up issues to JoeB131 and other critics of the war
and ask WHERE is the push to hold these groups accountable and
credit back the taxpayers for misspent contract money on corporate interests?
And nothing. They aren't going after anyone. I keep asking and asking
and nobody seems to be following up. So where is the outrage,
where is the push to fix this if the US warmongers are responsible for commercialized genocide?

I think that is a valid argument, so where is the push to address it?
Why the distraction arguing over Jihadists if the 
"REAL bad guys" ARE within our jurisdiction as claimed?


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys




----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh on THAT, you can rest assured.
> 
> _Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guy, you haven't done anything to concede to.... Frankly, you just keep going off on these weird tangents that have nothign to do with the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OH!  Now isn't that _precious?
> _
> FYI: Once you've conceded to the standing points, you're not required to continue to do so, but it is always nice when ya do.
> 
> You're continued need to concede that you've no means to sustain your defense of Islam through feckless anti-theist rants, is again, _duly noted and summarily accepted._
Click to expand...


Again, guy, when I admit that you aren't as crazy as you sound, then you have  concession. 

But honestly, you are kind of batshit crazy.  You didn't make a point, you just repeated the same racist shit about Muslims you always do.


----------



## NYcarbineer

GW Bush called the Iraq invasion in 2003 a Crusade.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

NYcarbineer said:


> GW Bush called the Iraq invasion in 2003 a Crusade.



GW also called Islam: The Religion of Peace.  He was wrong.  Islam is a cult of death and destruction, born from the mind of a psychotic and it's never found a way to become anything else.


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> GW Bush called the Iraq invasion in 2003 a Crusade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GW also called Islam: The Religion of Peace.  He was wrong.  Islam is a cult of death and destruction, born from the mind of a psychotic and it's never found a way to become anything else.
Click to expand...


Have you actually ever MET a Muslim? 

I have. 

They aren't 10 feet tall and have fangs.


----------



## NYcarbineer

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> GW Bush called the Iraq invasion in 2003 a Crusade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GW also called Islam: The Religion of Peace.  He was wrong.  Islam is a cult of death and destruction, born from the mind of a psychotic and it's never found a way to become anything else.
Click to expand...


Since the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not violent, you are wrong by simple math.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh on THAT, you can rest assured.
> 
> _Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guy, you haven't done anything to concede to.... Frankly, you just keep going off on these weird tangents that have nothign to do with the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OH!  Now isn't that _precious?
> _
> FYI: Once you've conceded to the standing points, you're not required to continue to do so, but it is always nice when ya do.
> 
> You're continued need to concede that you've no means to sustain your defense of Islam through feckless anti-theist rants, is again, _duly noted and summarily accepted._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, guy, when I admit that you aren't as crazy as you sound, then you have  concession.
> 
> But honestly, you are kind of batshit crazy.  You didn't make a point, you just repeated the same racist shit about Muslims you always do.
Click to expand...


Yes, imagine the irony, that you, a professed atheist spend your every waking hour defending the Cult of Islam and denigrating Christians, even as the only thing between you and a violent death... on nothing but your profession of atheism is the thing you hate most.  

ROFLMNAO!  

I never get tired of that.


----------



## jon_berzerk

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh on THAT, you can rest assured.
> 
> _Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guy, you haven't done anything to concede to.... Frankly, you just keep going off on these weird tangents that have nothign to do with the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OH!  Now isn't that _precious?
> _
> FYI: Once you've conceded to the standing points, you're not required to continue to do so, but it is always nice when ya do.
> 
> You're continued need to concede that you've no means to sustain your defense of Islam through feckless anti-theist rants, is again, _duly noted and summarily accepted._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, guy, when I admit that you aren't as crazy as you sound, then you have  concession.
> 
> But honestly, you are kind of batshit crazy.  You didn't make a point, you just repeated the same racist shit about Muslims you always do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, imagine the irony, that you, a professed atheist spend your every waking hour defending the Cult of Islam and denigrating Christians, even as the only thing between you and a violent death... on nothing but your profession of atheism is the thing you hate most.
> 
> ROFLMNAO!
> 
> I never get tired of that.
Click to expand...



it is sweet 

--LOL


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> GW Bush called the Iraq invasion in 2003 a Crusade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GW also called Islam: The Religion of Peace.  He was wrong.  Islam is a cult of death and destruction, born from the mind of a psychotic and it's never found a way to become anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Have you actually ever MET a Muslim?
> 
> I have.
> 
> They aren't 10 feet tall and have fangs.
Click to expand...


LOL!  _ANOTHER _straw argument?  

Where did you meet that Muslim?

In the UK?   Where the Muslim is in the "We're all peaches and cream Mode?", except when they're in '_their part town'_ , where they're less peachy and creamy, but they're still not openly killing kafirs, yet, as they are as a matter of routine, in _THEY'RE PART OF THE WORLD. _

We know it wasn't in Iran, because you're able to speak.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

NYcarbineer said:


> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> 
> GW Bush called the Iraq invasion in 2003 a Crusade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GW also called Islam: The Religion of Peace.  He was wrong.  Islam is a cult of death and destruction, born from the mind of a psychotic and it's never found a way to become anything else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Since the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not violent, you are wrong by simple math.
Click to expand...


The overwhelming number of people in the US Military are not violent.  Do you feel that they are something that should be feared?  I'll post up some photos for you, if you're not up to speed on the lethality of that organism, but you'll need to be quick, its pretty nasty stuff and won't stand long... Muslims bits EVERYWHERE!


----------



## Picaro

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where_r_my_Keys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh on THAT, you can rest assured.
> 
> _Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> guy, you haven't done anything to concede to.... Frankly, you just keep going off on these weird tangents that have nothign to do with the OP.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OH!  Now isn't that _precious?
> _
> FYI: Once you've conceded to the standing points, you're not required to continue to do so, but it is always nice when ya do.
> 
> You're continued need to concede that you've no means to sustain your defense of Islam through feckless anti-theist rants, is again, _duly noted and summarily accepted._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, guy, when I admit that you aren't as crazy as you sound, then you have  concession.
> 
> But honestly, you are kind of batshit crazy.  You didn't make a point, you just repeated the same racist shit about Muslims you always do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, imagine the irony, that you, a professed atheist spend your every waking hour defending the Cult of Islam and denigrating Christians, even as the only thing between you and a violent death... on nothing but your profession of atheism is the thing you hate most.
> 
> ROFLMNAO!
> 
> I never get tired of that.
Click to expand...


It's indeed hilarious, considering the countries whose histories are the most heavily influenced by Christianity are the countries that allow the sort of intellectual freedoms and individuality that these cognitively dissonant sociopaths can freely spout such false and innaccurate nonsense.


----------



## Picaro

Let's review this nonsense about 'moderate and non-violent' Islam, and the alleged 'vast majority', as if the past and current record of countries dominated by this violent political ideology isn't enough by itself. After all, the only major conflict in Europe since WW II took place in the Balkans, where Muslim culture thrived for centuries. I guess that is just 'coincidence' as well, but I digress. 

Let's begin with this:

 "The verses of the Qur'an and the Sunnah summon people in general (with the most eloquent expression and the clearest exposition) to jihad, to warfare, to the armed forces, and all means of land and sea fighting."-Hasan al-Banna,  * Jihad*, 1928

*The texts in Islam distinguish themselves from the texts of other religions by encouraging violence and aggression against people with other religious beliefs to a larger degree. There are also straightforward calls for terror. This has long been a taboo in the research into Islam, but it is a fact that we need to deal with.



There are 36 references in the Koran to expressions derived from the root qa-ta-la, which indicates fighting, killing or being killed. The expressions derived from the root ja-ha-da, which the word jihad stems from, are more ambiguous since they mean “to struggle” or “to make an effort” rather than killing. Yet almost all of the references derived from this root are found in stories that leave no room for doubt regarding the violent nature of this struggle. Only a single ja-ha-da reference (29:6) explicitly presents the struggle as an inner, spiritual phenomenon, not as an outwardly (usually military) phenomenon. But this sole reference does not carry much weight against the more than 50 references to actual armed struggle in the Koran, and even more in the Hadith.*-Dr. Tina Magaard

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
WebCite query result

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.
A Year After Iraq War Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
PJ Media
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...053251,00.html

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2010): 55% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hezbollah
30% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hezbollah
45% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hezbollah (26% negative)
43% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah (30% negative)
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 60% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hamas (34% negative).
49% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hamas (48% negative)
49% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hamas (25% negative)
39% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas (33% negative)
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".
Technisch Onderhoud

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified.# 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
Daniel Pipes

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/mu...ns.pdf#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never).
28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never).
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/...for-extremism/

Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/mu...ns.pdf#page=60

ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities.
27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
The Scotsman
Daniel Pipes

Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.
http://www.fosis.org.uk/sac/FullReport.pdf
Daniel Pipes

ICM Poll: 25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews...ms Nov04.asp
Daniel Pipes

Populus Poll (2006): 16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified.
37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target".
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
Daniel Pipes

Pew Research (2013): At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against civilians (study did not distinguish between those who believe it is partially justified and never justified).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 15% of Muslims in Turkey support suicide bombings (also 11% in Kosovo, 26% in Malaysia and 26% in Bangladesh).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

PCPO (2014): 89% of Palestinians support Hamas and other terrorists firing rockets at Israeli civilians.
You are being redirected...

Pew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban.# 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/...remist-groups/
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/...remist-groups/

See also*)http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Sta...rrorism)(*)for further statistics on Islamic terror.

*Continued*


----------



## Picaro

Pew Research (2007): 5% of American Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (27% can’t make up their minds).# Only 58% reject al-Qaeda outright.
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/mu...ns.pdf#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 5% of American Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (14% can’t make up their minds).
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/...for-extremism/

Pew Research (2011): 1 in 10 native-born Muslim-Americans have a favorable view of al-Qaeda.
http://people-press.org/2011/08/30/m...for-extremism/

al-Jazeera (2006): 49.9% of Muslims polled support Osama bin Laden
About Global Terrorism and Homeland Security

Pew Research: 59% of Indonesians support Osama bin Laden in 2003
41% of Indonesians support Osama bin Laden in 2007
56% of Jordanians support Osama bin Laden in 2003
http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/15/ira...an-berman.html

Pew Global: 51% of Palestinians support Osama bin Laden
54% of Muslim Nigerians Support Osama bin Laden
Blinded by Hate FrontPage Magazine
http://pewglobal.org/files/pdf/268.pdf

MacDonald Laurier Institute: 35% of Canadian Muslims would not repudiate al-Qaeda
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/01...riah-in-canada
Home Macdonald-Laurier Institute

World Public Opinion: Muslim majorities agree with the al-Qaeda goal of Islamic law.
Muslim majorities agree with al-Qaeda goal of keeping Western values out of Islamic countries;
(Egypt: 88%; Indonesia 76%; Pakistan 60%; Morocco 64%)
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

ICM Poll: 13% of Muslim in Britain support al-Qaeda attacks on America.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews...march-2004.asp
Daniel Pipes

World Public Opinion: Attitude toward Osama bin Laden:
Egypt: 44% positive, 17% negative, and 25% mixed feelings
Indonesia: 14% positive, 26% negative, 21% mixed feelings (39% did not answer)
Pakistan: 25% positive, 15% negative, 26% mixed feelings (34% did not answer)
Morocco: 27% positive, 21% negative, 26% mixed feelings
Jordanians, Palestinians, Turks and Azerbaijanis. Jordanians combined for: 27% positive, 20 percent negative, and 27 percent mixed feelings.# (Palestinians 56% positive, 20% negative, 22 percent mixed feelings).
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2010): 49% of Nigerian Muslims have favorable view of al-Qaeda (34% unfavorable)
23% of Indonesians have favorable view of al-Qaeda (56% unfavorable)
34% of Jordanians have favorable view of al-Qaeda(*)
25% of Indonesians have "confidence" in Osama bin Laden (59% had confidence in 2003)
1 in 5 Egyptians have "confidence" in Osama bin Laden
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

Pew Research (2011): 22% of Indonesians have a favorable view of al-Qaeda (21% unfavorable)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/...for-extremism/

Gallup: 51% of Pakistanis grieve Osama bin Laden (only 11% happy over death)
44% of Pakistanis viewed Osama bin Laden as a martyr (only 28% as an oulaw)
404 Can t Find Page - American Thinker

Zogby International 2011: “Majorities in all six countries said they viewed the United States less favorably following the killing of the Al-Qaeda head [Osama bin Laden] in Pakistan”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...a926c28.c11(*)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...HVBI_blog.html

Populus Survey: 18% of British Muslims would be proud or indifferent if a family member joined al-Qaeda.
http://www.populuslimited.com/poll_s..._Times_ITV.htm
Daniel Pipes

Policy Exchange (2006): 7% Muslims in Britain admire al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/ima...images/246.pdf
Daniel Pipes

Informal poll of Saudis in August 2014 shows 92% agree that Islamic State (ISIS) "conforms to the values of Islam and Islamic law."
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.co...ic-law-survey/

#

9/11 Attacks

al-Arabiya: 36% of Arabs polled said the 9/11 attacks were morally justified; 38% disagreed; 26% Unsure
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/20...10/166274.html

Gallup: 38.6% of Muslims believe 9/11 attacks were justified (7% "fully", 6.5% "mostly", 23.1% "partially")
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/200...l-muslims.html
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/t...6.php?CID=1154

Pew Research (2011): Large majorities of Muslims believe in 9/11 conspiracy
Muslim-Western Tensions Persist Pew Research Center s Global Attitudes Project


----------



## Picaro

Violence in Defense of Islam

40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detail...d=20060728.@03

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
http://cnsnews.com/node/53865(*)(Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...haria-law.html
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
Civitas

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
WebCite query result

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
WebCite query result

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews...ms Nov04.asp
Daniel Pipes

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/...ue-survey/html

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/s...ims-joshua-woo

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.co...ose-democracy/

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers.# Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive...-research.php/

#

Sharia (Islamic Law)

83% of Pakistanis support stoning adulterers
78% of Pakistanis support killing apostates(*)
http://www.realcourage.org/2009/08/p...ostate-deaths/

Center for Social Cohesion: 40% of British Muslim students want Sharia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...haria-law.html
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

GfK NOP: 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state
Civitas

NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
WebCite query result

MacDonald Laurier Institute: 62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/01...riah-in-canada
Home Macdonald-Laurier Institute

World Public Opinion: 81% of Egyptians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Pakistanis want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
49% (plurality) of Indonesians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Moroccans want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

World Public Opinion: 64% of Egyptians said it was “very important for the government” to “apply traditional punishments for crimes such as stoning adulterers.”
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2010): 77% of Egyptian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
58% of Jordanian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
36% of Indonesian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
82% of Pakistanis favor floggings and amputation
65% of Nigerian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/


----------



## Picaro

Violence in Defense of Islam

40% of Indonesians approve of violence in defense of Islam.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detail...d=20060728.@03

Pew Global: 68% of Palestinian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
43% of Nigerian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
38% of Lebanese Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
15% of Egyptian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
13% of Indonesian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
12% of Jordanian Muslims say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
7% of Muslim Israelis say suicide attacks against civilians in defense of Islam are justified.
http://cnsnews.com/node/53865(*)(Pew Global Attitudes Project September, 2009)

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...haria-law.html
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
Civitas

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
WebCite query result

NOP Research: Hardcore Islamists comprise 9% of Britain's Muslim population;
Another 29% would "aggressively defend" Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
WebCite query result

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
86% of Jordanian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
30% of Indonesian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
76% of Pakistanis support death the penalty for leaving Islam
51% of Nigerian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for religious or political ends acceptable.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews...ms Nov04.asp
Daniel Pipes

Terrorism Research Institute Study: 51% of mosques in the U.S. have texts on site rated as severely advocating violence; 30% have texts rated as moderately advocating violence; and 19% have no violent texts at all.
http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/...ue-survey/html

Pew Research (2013): 76% of South Asian Muslims and 56% of Egyptians advocate killing anyone who leaves the Islamic religion.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 19% of Muslim Americans believe suicide bombings in defense of Islam are at least partially justified (global average is 28% in countries surveyed).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): 39% of Muslims in Malaysia say suicide bombings "justified" in defense of Islam (only 58% say 'never').
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/s...ims-joshua-woo

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.co...ose-democracy/

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers.# Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive...-research.php/

#

Sharia (Islamic Law)

83% of Pakistanis support stoning adulterers
78% of Pakistanis support killing apostates(*)
http://www.realcourage.org/2009/08/p...ostate-deaths/

Center for Social Cohesion: 40% of British Muslim students want Sharia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...haria-law.html
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...law-in-UK.html

GfK NOP: 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state
Civitas

NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
WebCite query result

MacDonald Laurier Institute: 62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/01...riah-in-canada
Home Macdonald-Laurier Institute

World Public Opinion: 81% of Egyptians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Pakistanis want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
49% (plurality) of Indonesians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Moroccans want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

World Public Opinion: 64% of Egyptians said it was “very important for the government” to “apply traditional punishments for crimes such as stoning adulterers.”
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pi..._Feb09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2010): 77% of Egyptian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
58% of Jordanian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
36% of Indonesian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
82% of Pakistanis favor floggings and amputation
65% of Nigerian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/musl...and-hezbollah/


----------



## Picaro

Pew Research (2013): 72% of Indonesians want Sharia to be law of the land
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/...law-pew-forum/

Pew Research (2013): 81% of South Asian Muslims and 57% of Egyptians suport amputating limbs for theft.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): According to an interpretation of this study, approximately 45% of Sharia supporters surveyed disagreed with the idea that Islamic law should apply only to Muslims.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

Economist (Pew 2013): 74% who favor Islamic law in Egypt say it should apply to non-Muslims as well.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...Shariadolikeit

WZB Berlin Social Science Center: 65% of Muslims in Europe say Sharia is more important than the law of the country they live in.
http://www.wzb.eu/en/research/migrat...ation-comparat
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/40...fundamentalism

FPO (2014): 43% of Islamic teachers in Austria openly advocate Sharia law over democracy.
http://rt.com/news/208387-austria-is...garten-muslim/
#

Honor Killings

Turkish Ministry of Education: 1 in 4 Turks Support Honor Killings
Turkey Poll 8211 Over a Quarter Support Islamic Supremacist 8220 Honor Killings 8221 Responsible for Equality And Liberty R.E.A.L. 
http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetai...0502&bolum=100

Civitas: 1 in 3 Muslims in the UK strongly agree that a wife should be forced to obey her husband's bidding
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SU...20Download.pdf
Civitas

BBC Poll: 1 in 10 British Muslims support killing a family member over "dishonor".
http://www.expressandstar.com/blogs/...on-our-nation/

Middle East Quarterly: 91 percent of honor killings are committed by Muslims worldwide.
Honour Killing Entrenched in Islam

95% of honor killings in the West are perpetrated by Muslim fathers and brothers or their proxies.
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...rightful-name/

A survey of Muslim women in Paris suburbs found that three-quarters of them wear their masks out of fear - including fear of violence.
Canada gets it right with veil rules North Bay Nugget

1 in 5 young British Muslims agree that 'honor' violence is acceptable.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-reveals.html

Pew Research (2013): Large majorities of Muslims favor Sharia.# Among those who do, stoning women for adultery is favored by 89% in Pakistanis, 85% in Afghanistan, 81% in Egypt, 67% in Jordan, ~50% in 'moderate' Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand, 58% in Iraq, 44% in Tunisia, 29% in Turkey, and 26% in Russia.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): Honor killing the woman for sex outside of marriage is favored over honor killing the man in almost every Islamic country.# Over half of Muslims surveyed believed that honor killings over sex were at least partially justified.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

(2013) Jordanian teens support honor killing.
http://www.france24.com/en/20130620-...ustified-study

#

Assimilation

Muslims have highest claimed disability rates in the UK (24% of men, 21% of women)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...haria-law.html

2011: 16% of UK prisoners in 2010 are Muslim (Muslims comprise about 3% of the total population)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...1319500798601A

Pakistani Muslims in the UK are three times more likely to be unemployed than Hindus. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed as Indian Hindus.
Why Obama Gave Away the Middle East FrontPage Magazine

Policy Exchange: 1 in 4 Muslims in the UK have never heard of the Holocaust;(*)
Only 34% of British Muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SU...20Download.pdf
Civitas

Policy Exchange: 51% of British Muslims believe a woman cannot marry a non-Muslim
Only 51% believe a Muslim woman may marry without a guardian's consent
Civitas

Policy Exchange: Up to 52% of British Muslims believe a Muslim man is entitled to up to four wives
Civitas

Policy Exchange: 61% of British Muslims want homosexuality punished
Civitas

NOP Research: 62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech;
Only 3% adopt a "consistently pro-freedom of speech line"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...ate=2011-04-06
WebCite query result

ICM Poll: 58% of British Muslims believe insulting Islam should result in criminal prosecution
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews...ms Nov04.asp
Daniel Pipes

Pew Global (2006): Only 7% of British Muslims think of themselves as British first (81% say 'Muslim' rather than 'Briton')
http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/254.pdf

Policy Exchange (2006): 31% Muslims in Britain identify more with Muslims in other countries than with non-Muslim Brits.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/ima...images/246.pdf

Die Welt (2012): 46% of Muslims in Germany hope there will eventually be more Muslims than Christians in Germany.
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschla...-Mehrheit.html

Ipsos MORI: Muslims are 3 times as likely as Christians to believe that their religion is the only way.
http://www.christiantoday.com/articl...inds/28257.htm

Pew Research (2011): Muslim-Americans four times more likely to say that women should not work outside the home.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/...social-values/

Pew Research (2007): 26% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (43% support assimilation)
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/mu...ns.pdf#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 20% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (56% support assimilation)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/...for-extremism/

Pew Research (2011): 49% of Muslim-Americans say they are "Muslim first" (26% American first)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/...for-extremism/

Pew Research (2011): 21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/...oreign-policy/

ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for political ends acceptable
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews...ms Nov04.asp
Daniel Pipes

Wenzel Strategies (2012): 58% of Muslim-Americans believe criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech under the First Amendment.(*)
45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges (38% said they should not).
12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death.
43% of Muslim-Americans believe people of other faiths have no right to evangelize Muslims.
32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land.
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/201...of-expression/
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012...s-believe.html

Pew Research (2013): "At least half' of Muslims surveyed believed polygamy is morally acceptable.
"Muslims in most countries surveyed say that a wife should always obey her husband." (including 93% in Indonesia and 65% in Turkey).


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## Picaro

Only 32% of Muslims in Indonesia say a woman should have the right to divorce her husband (22% in Egypt, 26% in Pakistan and 60% in Russia).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 3 Muslims in Austria say it is not possible to be a European and a Muslim.# 22% oppose democracy
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.co...ose-democracy/

WZB Berlin Social Science Center: 45% of Muslims in Europe say Jews cannot be trusted.
http://www.wzb.eu/en/research/migrat...ation-comparat
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/40...fundamentalism


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## Picaro

These are modern stats.

Is anybody really clueless enough to claim Islam was more 'moderate' in the past centuries? Anybody clueless enough to keep claiming 'only 1% of Muslims' are violent or opposed to gangs like Hamas et al?

Gangs of extortionists, mass murderers, and thugs like ISIS are the norm for Islam, not the exception.


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## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> Yes, imagine the irony, that you, a professed atheist spend your every waking hour defending the Cult of Islam and denigrating Christians, even as the only thing between you and a violent death... on nothing but your profession of atheism is the thing you hate most.



actually, guy, there's little or no chance I'd ever have to worry about a Muslim. I don't go into their part of the world looking for trouble.

Now, there is a MOsque down the block from me.  They've never given me any trouble.  They have an iron fence around it, not to keep them in, but to keep dumb-ass bubba rednecks like you out.


----------



## Picaro

I didn't have time to go through the entire thread, so I apologize if someobdy has already posted this essay on the myths surrounding the Crusades.


The Real History of the Crusades



> Christians in the eleventh century were not paranoid fanatics. Muslims really were gunning for them. While Muslims can be peaceful, Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War. Christianity — and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion — has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered. When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.
> 
> ...
> 
> With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed's death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt — once the most heavily Christian areas in the world — quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.
> 
> That is what gave birth to the Crusades. They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense.



.. and so on.

Source of the article, and info on the author:

*Acknowledgement*
Thomas F. Madden. "The Real History of the Crusades." _Crisis_ 20, no. 4 (April 2002).

*The Author*









Thomas F. Madden is associate professor and chair of the Department of History at Saint Louis University in St. Louis, Missouri. He is the author of _Enrico Dandolo and the Rise of Venice, A Concise History of the Crusades_, _The Crusades: The Essential Readings_, and coauthor of _The Fourth Crusade_.


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## whitehall

The Crusades happened almost a thousand years ago. Any person much less a freaking president who uses the Crusades to justify Islamic jihad in the 21st century and the murder of 3,000 Americans on a pretty September day in 2001 not to mention the beheadings of Americans  and and murder and enslavement of children at the hands of monsters is either a fool or a depraved anti-American.


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## JoeB131

Picaro said:


> I didn't have time to go through the entire thread, so I apologize if someobdy has already posted this essay on the myths surrounding the Crusades.



Yeah, a Catholic Website. 

The Crusades weren't that bad. 

And the Inquisition was no big thing.  

And those Altar Boys?   THey were just asking for it!


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## JoeB131

whitehall said:


> The Crusades happened almost a thousand years ago. Any person much less a freaking president who uses the Crusades to justify Islamic jihad in the 21st century and the murder of 3,000 Americans on a pretty September day in 2001 not to mention the beheadings of Americans and and murder and enslavement of children at the hands of monsters is either a fool or a depraved anti-American.



Which he didn't do.  Where did Obama justify anything?  

He just pointed out, Christians can be just as mean, stupid and violent as Muslims.


----------



## Picaro

JoeB131 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't have time to go through the entire thread, so I apologize if someobdy has already posted this essay on the myths surrounding the Crusades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, a Catholic Website.
> 
> The Crusades weren't that bad.
> 
> And the Inquisition was no big thing.
> 
> And those Altar Boys?   THey were just asking for it!
Click to expand...


so go ahead and point out innaccuracies. And your'e right the Inquisition wasn't any big thing in historical context, and certainly nowhere near equivalient to Islamic slaughters, or even pagan slaughters in Europe before the rise of Christianity. Merely crying about the source is just another way of dodging the issues and avoiding the content of the essay; a tacit admission one can't really refute the premises.


----------



## Picaro

JoeB131 said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Crusades happened almost a thousand years ago. Any person much less a freaking president who uses the Crusades to justify Islamic jihad in the 21st century and the murder of 3,000 Americans on a pretty September day in 2001 not to mention the beheadings of Americans and and murder and enslavement of children at the hands of monsters is either a fool or a depraved anti-American.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which he didn't do.  Where did Obama justify anything?
> 
> He just pointed out, Christians can be just as mean, stupid and violent as Muslims.
Click to expand...


He was falsely trying to conflate Christianity in the medieval eras with being the same as current Islamic atrocities, a ridiculous idiocy.  He doesn't know squat about history, and made himself look like a moron. The fact is da Evul Xians didn't run around killing millions, despite the ridiculous hyperbole still being spewed by liars and 'new atheists', they didn't run aorind burning millions of witches, and they didn't just rampage through Islamo-Land for no reason, i.e. all the false gibberish so trendy with pathological Xian haters, and Christianity is in no way even remotely comparalbe to Islam. In other words, it's a load of dishonest crap put out by idiots with agendas they can't support rationally.


----------



## JoeB131

Picaro said:


> He was falsely trying to conflate Christianity in the medieval eras with being the same as current Islamic atrocities, a ridiculous idiocy. He doesn't know squat about history, and made himself look like a moron. The fact is da Evul Xians didn't run around killing millions, despite the ridiculous hyperbole still being spewed by liars and 'new atheists', they didn't run aorind burning millions of witches, and they didn't just rampage through Islamo-Land for no reason, i.e. all the false gibberish so trendy with pathological Xian haters, and Christianity is in no way even remotely comparalbe to Islam. In other words, it's a load of dishonest crap put out by idiots with agendas they can't support rationally.



Actually, it's estimated that the Crusades killed from 1 to 3 million people.  

We could also throw in their the 30 Years War (1618-1648), which killed perhaps up to 11 million people, or the French Wars of Religion (1562-1598), which killed up to 4 million.  

So if you want to go strictly by "Religious Wars", the Christians got three of the top three.  

Religious war - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Christians also used the bible to rationalize slavery, the conquest of the Americas, the colonization of Australia, which caused a lot more death and misery than anything the Muslims are doing mostly to each other today.


----------



## Picaro

JoeB131 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was falsely trying to conflate Christianity in the medieval eras with being the same as current Islamic atrocities, a ridiculous idiocy. He doesn't know squat about history, and made himself look like a moron. The fact is da Evul Xians didn't run around killing millions, despite the ridiculous hyperbole still being spewed by liars and 'new atheists', they didn't run aorind burning millions of witches, and they didn't just rampage through Islamo-Land for no reason, i.e. all the false gibberish so trendy with pathological Xian haters, and Christianity is in no way even remotely comparalbe to Islam. In other words, it's a load of dishonest crap put out by idiots with agendas they can't support rationally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's estimated that the Crusades killed from 1 to 3 million people.
> 
> We could also throw in their the 30 Years War (1618-1648), which killed perhaps up to 11 million people, or the French Wars of Religion (1562-1598), which killed up to 4 million.
> 
> So if you want to go strictly by "Religious Wars", the Christians got three of the top three.
> 
> Religious war - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Christians also used the bible to rationalize slavery, the conquest of the Americas, the colonization of Australia, which caused a lot more death and misery than anything the Muslims are doing mostly to each other today.
Click to expand...


Hey, why not claim 50 million in the Crusades? It has about as much credibility. Claim 100 million for the 30 Years War, a geo-political struggle with the Hapsburgs against 'everybody else' for the control of Europe, not a 'religious war', ditto for the French wars. There is nothing in Christian theology to inspre them, unlike Islam which is entirely about warring on non-Muslims and imperialism, so still a big 'Fail' in claiming some moral equivelance nad similar body counts between Christianity and Islam.

Slavery has been the historical norm for most of the planet for thousands of years, so that isn't an argument, and in any case the theology merely acknowledges it exists and doesn't have any command to go forth and enslave in the name of Jesus, while Islam does have such commands.

Comparing some guy abusing biblical histories doesn't compare to a theology that actively promotes enslaving and murdering, so the PC fad fails there, too.


----------



## JoeB131

Picaro said:


> Hey, why not claim 50 million in the Crusades? It has about as much credibility. Claim 100 million for the 30 Years War, a geo-political struggle with the Hapsburgs against 'everybody else' for the control of Europe, not a 'religious war', ditto for the French wars. There is nothing in Christian theology to inspre them, unlike Islam which is entirely about warring on non-Muslims and imperialism, so still a big 'Fail' in claiming some moral equivelance nad similar body counts between Christianity and Islam.



I cited what HISTORIANS consider to be the accurate numbers for those conflicts.  But I do find it interesting that when Muslims kill, according to you, it's about their "religion", but when Christians kill, it's "defensive" or "about control".  This is the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.  you should look it up. 

The 30 years war and French Religious wars were SPECIFICALLY about Religion.  They were Catholics against Protestants. 



Picaro said:


> Slavery has been the historical norm for most of the planet for thousands of years, so that isn't an argument, and in any case the theology merely acknowledges it exists and doesn't have any command to go forth and enslave in the name of Jesus, while Islam does have such commands.



well, no, After the Roman Period, slavery went out of style in Europe, but they brought it back to colonize the Americas.  But since you claim that the Bible is the inspired word of God, shouldn't have God spent SOME time saying, "You know, one human being owning another is just plain wrong".   The bible has whole chapters on what animals you can and can't eat, but apparently couldn't bring itself to say, "You know, one human being owning another as property is not a good thing."  

The BIble DOES have specific instructions on Enslaving people.  Here, let me help you out. 

Leviticus 25:44-46
_Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever. _
. 



Picaro said:


> Comparing some guy abusing biblical histories doesn't compare to a theology that actively promotes enslaving and murdering, so the PC fad fails there, too.



Except both the Koran and Bible have verses endorsing killing and slavery.  

What changed was not that these "Holy Books" changed, but we did as a people.  God wasn't changing, so we did.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't have time to go through the entire thread, so I apologize if someobdy has already posted this essay on the myths surrounding the Crusades.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, a Catholic Website.
> 
> The Crusades weren't that bad.
> 
> And the Inquisition was no big thing.
> 
> And those Altar Boys?   THey were just asking for it!
Click to expand...


The Crusades were not a big thing, in terms of savage mass-murder of the innocent, which is to say '_what Islam was designed to do', _but in fairness... that's because The Crusades were Catholics (Christians) defending Christians from Islam.

Fighting Evil is what Christianity does, so the Crusades are not a dark period for Christianity, The Crusades were a VERY BRIGHT point, where Christians did _the right thing_.  Just as the Christian Invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan in the Christian Global War on Terror, was and remains _the right thing.
_
And once the Brown Clown is kicked to the curb, Christians will return to defeat Islam, once and for all.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was falsely trying to conflate Christianity in the medieval eras with being the same as current Islamic atrocities, a ridiculous idiocy. He doesn't know squat about history, and made himself look like a moron. The fact is da Evul Xians didn't run around killing millions, despite the ridiculous hyperbole still being spewed by liars and 'new atheists', they didn't run aorind burning millions of witches, and they didn't just rampage through Islamo-Land for no reason, i.e. all the false gibberish so trendy with pathological Xian haters, and Christianity is in no way even remotely comparalbe to Islam. In other words, it's a load of dishonest crap put out by idiots with agendas they can't support rationally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's estimated that the Crusades killed from 1 to 3 million people.
> 
> We could also throw in their the 30 Years War (1618-1648), which killed perhaps up to 11 million people, or the French Wars of Religion (1562-1598), which killed up to 4 million.
> 
> So if you want to go strictly by "Religious Wars", the Christians got three of the top three.
> 
> Religious war - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Christians also used the bible to rationalize slavery, the conquest of the Americas, the colonization of Australia, which caused a lot more death and misery than anything the Muslims are doing mostly to each other today.
Click to expand...


Christians do not use the bible to rationalize Slavery, DUMBASS... Christians ENDED SLAVERY, at least in the US.  Of course Islam still practices Slavery to this day.  

Now... STOPPING ISLAMIC SLAVERY OF CHRISTIANS, is one of evils that The Crusades was designed to stop.  And while they didn't stop it, they sure as hell slowed it down.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> I cited what HISTORIANS consider to be the accurate numbers for those conflicts.  But I do find it interesting that when Muslims kill, according to you, it's about their "religion", but when Christians kill, it's "defensive" or "about control".  This is the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.  you should look it up.



You're an imbecile...  there's nothing in kinship with that fallacy in Pic's Argument.

But how cool is it that you used Straw reasoning in your rationalization which asserted such.


----------



## Where_r_my_Keys

JoeB131 said:


> Picaro said:
> 
> 
> 
> He was falsely trying to conflate Christianity in the medieval eras with being the same as current Islamic atrocities, a ridiculous idiocy. He doesn't know squat about history, and made himself look like a moron. The fact is da Evul Xians didn't run around killing millions, despite the ridiculous hyperbole still being spewed by liars and 'new atheists', they didn't run aorind burning millions of witches, and they didn't just rampage through Islamo-Land for no reason, i.e. all the false gibberish so trendy with pathological Xian haters, and Christianity is in no way even remotely comparalbe to Islam. In other words, it's a load of dishonest crap put out by idiots with agendas they can't support rationally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's estimated that the Crusades killed from 1 to 3 million people.
> 
> We could also throw in their the 30 Years War (1618-1648), which killed perhaps up to 11 million people, or the French Wars of Religion (1562-1598), which killed up to 4 million.
> 
> So if you want to go strictly by "Religious Wars", the Christians got three of the top three.
> 
> Religious war - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
> 
> Christians also used the bible to rationalize slavery, the conquest of the Americas, the colonization of Australia, which caused a lot more death and misery than anything the Muslims are doing mostly to each other today.
Click to expand...


The Ideological Left... Humanist: Murdered *150 Million* people between 1945 and 1975.

And THAT was in PEACETIME.  With no accounting of the tens of Millions more they murdered in the two world wars that were fought due to their idiocy.  

Now, given that you're born among the _intellectually less fortunate_... to give you an idea of what that big number means...  That's just under HALF the population of the United States, or 6 times more people than are in the 10 largest cities in the US, with the smallest of those being San Jose, CA.    

Which means that YOUR *RELIGION: HUMANISM* Killed more people in 30 years than any other human endeavor in human history.  Making YOU and your cult, the most lethal organism on earth, second only to  DISEASE.


----------



## JoeB131

Where_r_my_Keys said:


> The Crusades were not a big thing, in terms of savage mass-murder of the innocent, which is to say '_what Islam was designed to do', _but in fairness... that's because The Crusades were Catholics (Christians) defending Christians from Islam.



So they were defending Christians from Muslims who weren't attacking by attacking some other Muslims who had nothing to do with that... Um, right.  



Where_r_my_Keys said:


> Fighting Evil is what Christianity does, so the Crusades are not a dark period for Christianity, The Crusades were a VERY BRIGHT point, where Christians did _the right thing_. Just as the Christian Invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan in the Christian Global War on Terror, was and remains _the right thing._



Inquistions, slavery, genocide, Crusades, Religious Wars... no, the Christians are doing a very bad job of "fighting evil".  Maybe they need to start smaller like, 'don't bone Altar Boys up the Ass." 



Where_r_my_Keys said:


> And once the Brown Clown is kicked to the curb, Christians will return to defeat Islam, once and for all.



So you're going down the recruiter's office tomorrow, right?  



Where_r_my_Keys said:


> Christians do not use the bible to rationalize Slavery, DUMBASS... Christians ENDED SLAVERY, at least in the US. Of course Islam still practices Slavery to this day.



Except it did nothing of the Sort.  The reason why you HAVE a Southern Baptist convention is because the NOrthern Baptists came out against slavery.   

Furthermore, you need to look up a fellow named Bartolome De La Casas.  He was the one who advocated to the Emperor Charles V to use Black Slaves from Africa to exploit Spain's new Empire in the Americas.  



Where_r_my_Keys said:


> The Ideological Left... Humanist: Murdered *150 Million* people between 1945 and 1975.
> 
> And THAT was in PEACETIME. With no accounting of the tens of Millions more they murdered in the two world wars that were fought due to their idiocy.
> 
> Now, given that you're born among the _intellectually less fortunate_... to give you an idea of what that big number means... That's just under HALF the population of the United States, or 6 times more people than are in the 10 largest cities in the US, with the smallest of those being San Jose, CA.
> 
> Which means that YOUR *RELIGION: HUMANISM* Killed more people in 30 years than any other human endeavor in human history. Making YOU and your cult, the most lethal organism on earth, second only to DISEASE.



Guy, this is a completely horseshit number.  Besides the fact that there WERE Wars in that period (the Chinese Civil War, Korea, Vietnam) that claimed a lot of these lives, the numbers don't get anywhere near that, nor can you lay all those on the Communists.  For instance, 3 million people died in the Vietnam War.  We killed most of them.


----------



## Abishai100

*Populism Prudence*

The Bible reads that Judaism and Islam were begun by the sons of Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael.  The sons were thrown into a competitive arena and the legacy of this rift catapulted the conflicts between Israel and the Muslim world (i.e., Mossad/PLO).  These conflicts were re-shaped after the work of Jesus and the reorienting of Judaism into Judeo-Christianity.

Many figures in world history have shaped the spread of Islam and Judeo-Christianity (or Christianity): Muhammad, Alexander the Great, the Shahs of Iran, Richard the Lionheart, etc.

The recent Hollywood (USA) movies "Syriana" (2005) and "Doubt" (2008) look at the social impact of Islam and Christianity through a modern lens, since our 'new world' requires globalization-relevant thinking.

If we analyze the impact that the Crusades had on the dominions of Islam and Christianity and then posit that the Crusades were a correlate of Muslim jihads, then how do we compare such analyses to modern age assessments of the politicization of Israel-Palestine grievances (i.e., 1972 Summer Olympics tragedy), especially since we feel at ease referencing ancient holy wars for modern discussions about history revisionism?

Why do we celebrate traffic-terrorism American comic book avatars such as Penguin (DC Comics), an eerie crime-master who represents a modern age fascination with urbanization-brimstone?

Is populism (i.e., colloquialization politics) the new yardstick for education?







Syriana (Film)


----------

