# Israel & iran



## MJB12741 (Mar 14, 2012)

The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit.  Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.


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## Caroljo (Mar 14, 2012)

I really hope Israel doesn't wait too long to take care of this problem.....


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## Hossfly (Mar 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit.  Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.


There seems to be a vacuum in the world news about Nejad's nuke program. Could this be the calm before the storm?


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## ima (Mar 14, 2012)

I've seen no proof of Israeli nukes.


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## Caroljo (Mar 14, 2012)

ima said:


> I've seen no proof of Israeli nukes.



Everyone knows they have them...just like the US does.  But unlike Iran, Israel and the US are NOT threatening to wipe any other country off the earth.  I have no doubt Iran will use it the first chance they get, they're just crazy enough!


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## Jos (Mar 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> *The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth*, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit.  Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.



Let me know if that ever happens


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## ima (Mar 14, 2012)

Caroljo said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen no proof of Israeli nukes.
> ...



You say you know they have some, but do you have any proof? No.


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## Caroljo (Mar 14, 2012)

ima said:


> Caroljo said:
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> > ima said:
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Ya....i'm probably 99% sure.
Nuclear Weapons - Israel

Israel and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think they should try them out in Iran............


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## MJB12741 (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree.  NEVER has Israel fired any nukes at any country.  NEVER has Israel even threatened to do so.  For those who don't like the idea of Iran being Israel's first test site just ask yourselves, would you want the USA to do nothing at all like Israel has so far over such a threat by another country to annihilate us Americans & our country with nukes?




Caroljo said:


> ima said:
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> > Caroljo said:
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## ima (Mar 15, 2012)

If Israel has some nukes, why don't they detonate one underground in the Sinai desert to show everyone that they're serious?
Israel is like North Korea, they both pretend to have nukes.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 15, 2012)

Hard to believe that Iran was once the greatest nation on earth.  The very heart of the Persian empire & home of Cyrus the great.  And then came Islam.


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## Hossfly (Mar 15, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Hard to believe that Iran was once the greatest nation on earth.  The very heart of the Persian empire & home of Cyrus the great.  And then came Islam.


What a pity that Muhomeds mummy wasn't a member of N.O.W. or Planned Parenthood.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 15, 2012)

Just look at Iran's history.  From the grandeur & glory of Persepolis under Zoroastrian rule to the slums of Shiraz under Muslim rule.


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2012)

The slums of Shiraz under Muslim rule.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 15, 2012)

ima said:


> If Israel has some nukes, why don't they detonate one underground in the Sinai desert to show everyone that they're serious?
> Israel is like North Korea, they both pretend to have nukes.



FYI , Israel doesn't claim it has nuclear weapons.


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## ima (Mar 15, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > If Israel has some nukes, why don't they detonate one underground in the Sinai desert to show everyone that they're serious?
> ...



They just pretend that they do.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 15, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
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Right ... 
They don't claim to have nukes and yet they pretend to have nukes.


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## ima (Mar 15, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
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Then why does everyone think they have some? Just a coincidence?


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 15, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
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Why does everyone think that Lady Gaga is a guy ? 
What everyone thinks irrelevant.


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## ima (Mar 16, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
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> > Wolverine1984 said:
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So, do they have nukes or not?


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## patrickcaturday (Mar 16, 2012)

> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit.  Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.



So let me see if I have this right ?  Your solution to Iran trying to build a nuke is to nuke them back to the stone age !  Killing millions of innocent men, women and chilsren.  Sounds like a really civilized reaction.

Before you start ranting about Iran, I do not approve of them having nukes either, as a matter of fact I think all nukes should be done away with.  They are tools that only a moron would use !


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## MJB12741 (Mar 16, 2012)

Patrick, oh Partrick.  How well I remember you from our previous board.  And how well you prove MLK was right.  




patrickcaturday said:


> > MJB12741 said:
> >
> >
> > > The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit.  Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.
> ...


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## Jos (Mar 16, 2012)

Your Nick rings a bell too


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## rhodescholar (Mar 16, 2012)

ima said:


> So, do they have nukes or not?



Why is that important fucking moron?

If they do, they've had them for 50 years and never used them, and if you don't attack israel, it won't be an issue.

If they don't have them, who cares?

DEATH TO IRAN.


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## rhodescholar (Mar 16, 2012)

patrickcaturday said:


> So let me see if I have this right ?  Your solution to Iran trying to build a nuke is to nuke them back to the stone age !  Killing millions of innocent men, women and chilsren.  Sounds like a really civilized reaction.
> 
> Before you start ranting about Iran, I do not approve of them having nukes either, as a matter of fact I think all nukes should be done away with.  They are tools that only a moron would use !



I advocate the complete bombing of all iranian government facilities until the regime is wiped off the map, and leaving the nuke plants untouched.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 16, 2012)

Well, I have to agree that when enemy countries vow to annihilate your country with nukes, do unto others BEFORE they do unto you.





rhodescholar said:


> patrickcaturday said:
> 
> 
> > So let me see if I have this right ?  Your solution to Iran trying to build a nuke is to nuke them back to the stone age !  Killing millions of innocent men, women and chilsren.  Sounds like a really civilized reaction.
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Mar 17, 2012)

If it was the USA who was threatened with a nuclear attack by a foreign country, would we do nothing at all about it like Israel has so far?


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## Jos (Mar 17, 2012)

If Iran is threatened by israel, do you think they should do nothing too?


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## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2012)

Jos said:


> If Iran is threatened by israel, do you think they should do nothing too?


Wasn't it Iran who started it by saying that Israel should be wiped off the face of the map?


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## Jos (Mar 17, 2012)

> Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's president has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map." Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made.


'Wiped off the Map'  The Rumor of the Century - by Arash Norouzi


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## Ropey (Mar 17, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Jos said:
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> > If Iran is threatened by israel, do you think they should do nothing too?
> ...



Hitting Jos with logic?


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## Jos (Mar 17, 2012)

Ropey said:


> Hossfly said:
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> > Jos said:
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Jewlie came early this year?


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## Ropey (Mar 17, 2012)

Jos said:


> Ropey said:
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^ Deflection.

You still didn't answer Hossfly's question.


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## Jos (Mar 17, 2012)

I already posted a reply 
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/213163-israel-and-iran-2.html#post4974619


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## Ropey (Mar 17, 2012)

Jos said:


> I already posted a reply
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/213163-israel-and-iran-2.html#post4974619



Multi-threaded cross posting replies is really out there Jos.


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## Hossfly (Mar 17, 2012)

Jos said:


> I already posted a reply
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/213163-israel-and-iran-2.html#post4974619


Is it ground hog day still?


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## Jos (Mar 17, 2012)

> Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's president has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map." Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made.


'Wiped off the Map'  The Rumor of the Century - by Arash Norouzi

you dont dispute the truth of this statement


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## Jos (Mar 17, 2012)

ZOG RULES


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## pbel (Mar 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit.  Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.



Let Israel do her thing and keep the USA out of her wars...Let the games begin!


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 17, 2012)

Jos said:


> > Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's president has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map." Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made.
> 
> 
> 'Wiped off the Map' &#8211; The Rumor of the Century - by Arash Norouzi
> ...



You quite right ... There is a mistake in the translation ... He didn't say "Wipe Israel of the map"  
He said "Obliterative the occupying regime from the pages of history"  
Means the same thing though ...

Funny thing is there are pages of text in your source that is trying to convince us that it doesn't mean the same thing.
Analyzing every letter of his statement and offering excuses , while it's obvious that the meaning of the two phrases are exactly the same.


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## Jos (Mar 17, 2012)

Obliterative is not an English word, go to the back of the class Hasbarat


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 17, 2012)

Jos said:


> Obliterative is not an English word, go to the back of the class Hasbarat



Of course it is.

Google


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 17, 2012)

Jos said:


> Obliterative is not an English word, go to the back of the class Hasbarat


It seems that 'Hasbarat' is also not an English word....

Anyway ... My bad spelling does not effect the trustfulness of my statement.

Your pointing out my spelling mistake instead of addressing the issue I raised is interesting.
It would suggest that you don't have a case.
You didn't offer any explanation or counter argument to support your claim, seems you don't have any.


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## Hossfly (Mar 18, 2012)

Jos said:


> Obliterative is not an English word, go to the back of the class Hasbarat


Big deal, he made a mistake with a word.  Do you speak another language besides English?  Meanwhile, there have been native Farsi speakers on these message board who have said that there are nuances in Farsi and that what the President of Iran meant literally is that Israel should be wiped off the map.


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## Hossfly (Mar 18, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Obliterative is not an English word, go to the back of the class Hasbarat
> ...


In the USMB Forum in the 'Flame Zone' there is a thread titled "Suspected Members of Hasbarat on USMB."
Here's a description of the term: Israels propagandists shoot themselves in the foot as they shoot off their mouths


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## Ropey (Mar 18, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbMeaKTjGjE]Operation Opera - YouTube[/ame]

It still comes.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 18, 2012)

Next up Iran.  Stay tuned.  Israel will do what has to be done to LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!





Ropey said:


> Operation Opera - YouTube
> 
> It still comes.


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## Liability (Mar 18, 2012)

I hope Israel has massive bunker buster type bombs.

It would be so satisfying to see a massive crater where the Iranians used to have a nuclear plant and the only radiation is the stuff that melts down (like unkotare on any given day) after the non-atomic bomb goes boooo0000ooom.


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## Roudy (Mar 19, 2012)

May I ask what exactly has Israel done to Iran to desere such vitriol and ongoing terrorism against it by the Islamists in Iran?


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## Ariux (Mar 19, 2012)

Roudy said:


> May I ask what exactly has Israel done to Iran to desere such vitriol and ongoing terrorism against it by the Islamists in Iran?



How about Israel's threats to bomb Iran?  How about Israel's constant acts of war against Iran, such as assinations and the Stuxnet virus?  How about the campaign of disinformation by Israel to convince the world that Iran has a nuclear weapons program, resulting in sanctions?  How about decades of US meddling in Iran, including overthrows and war, considered US foreign policy is guided by Israel?


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 19, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > May I ask what exactly has Israel done to Iran to desere such vitriol and ongoing terrorism against it by the Islamists in Iran?
> ...






> How about Israel's threats to bomb Iran?


This happened only lately as a result of Iran's nuclear program, and Iran's president statement to "erase Israel from the pages of history".


> How about Israel's constant acts of war against Iran, such as assinations and the Stuxnet virus?


Also recent development and no evidence against Israel only speculations. 
However Iran been funding, providing equipment, weapons, training to terrorists cells since 1979.



> How about the campaign of disinformation by Israel to convince the world  that Iran has a nuclear weapons program, resulting in sanctions?


Also recent development...
"disinformation"
You have proof that it isn't true ?



> How about decades of US meddling in Iran, including overthrows and war, considered US foreign policy is guided by Israel?


How about decades of Iran providing equipment, weapons, training to terrorists organizations ?


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## MJB12741 (Mar 19, 2012)

Now THATS funny!  Tell us more about "Israel's threats to bomb iran"?  Heh Heh!




Ariux said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > May I ask what exactly has Israel done to Iran to desere such vitriol and ongoing terrorism against it by the Islamists in Iran?
> ...


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## patrickcaturday (Mar 19, 2012)

> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Now THATS funny!  Tell us more about "Israel's threats to bomb iran"?  Heh Heh!
> ...




Come on MJB, you can't be serious. That has been in the newspapers for the last month or so.  It was why Netanyahu came to the US and spoke to the President and made speeches to AIPAC and Congress for.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 19, 2012)

LMAO!  What do you expect an Aroush Norouzi to say?  Heh Heh.





Jos said:


> > Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's president has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map." Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made.
> 
> 
> 'Wiped off the Map'  The Rumor of the Century - by Arash Norouzi


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## MJB12741 (Mar 20, 2012)

When was Iran first threatened by Israel?




Jos said:


> If Iran is threatened by israel, do you think they should do nothing too?


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## Jos (Mar 20, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> When was Iran first threatened by Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *Iran threatening Israel*
> 
> The nuclear program of Iran with its potential to develop nuclear weapons, together with the anti-Israel rhetoric of the President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and his demand for "the regime occupying Jerusalem" to "vanish from the page of time", has led some Israelis to fear an eventual attack from Iran.
> 
> ...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Israel_relations#Iran_threatening_Israel


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## Jos (Mar 20, 2012)

*'Mossad, CIA agree Iran has yet to decide to build nuclear weapon'*


> Israels intelligence services agree with American intelligence assessments that there is not enough proof to determine whether Iran is building a nuclear bomb, according to a report published Sunday in the New York Times.
> 
> The United States and Israel share intelligence on Iran, American officials said. For its spying efforts, Israel relies in part on an Iranian exile group that is labeled a terrorist organization by the United States, the Mujahedeen Khalq, or M.E.K., which is based in Iraq, says the report.
> 
> ...


'Mossad, CIA agree Iran has yet to decide to build nuclear weapon' - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 20, 2012)

Jos said:


> *'Mossad, CIA agree Iran has yet to decide to build nuclear weapon'*
> 
> 
> > Israels intelligence services agree with American intelligence assessments that there is not enough proof to determine whether Iran is building a nuclear bomb, according to a report published Sunday in the New York Times.
> ...



It may or may not be true that the Iranian regime has not yet decided to build a bomb, but all recent intelligence, including recent reports of IAEA inspectors, indicate that the regime is pursuing research that would only be useful if they decided to build a nuclear weapon, indicating that the Iranian regime has decided to become what Hillary Clinton described as a nuclear threshold nation, that is, one that can build a bomb in a very short time once the decision is made.  For all practical purposes, there is no difference between deciding to become a nuclear threshold nation and deciding to build a bomb.


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## Jos (Mar 20, 2012)

Iran has signed the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty
Israel has not


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 20, 2012)

Jos said:


> Iran has signed the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty
> Israel has not



Had the NPT been properly drawn up, Israel probably would have signed it, but Israel was the only nation with nuclear weapons at the time that was not included among those permitted to have them.  Had the same standard been applied to the US, USSR, UK, France or China, those nations would have refused to sign the treaty,too.


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## KissMy (Mar 20, 2012)

Jos said:


> > Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's president has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map." Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made.
> 
> 
> 'Wiped off the Map' &#8211; The Rumor of the Century - by Arash Norouzi



You are full of shit.

Iran's President not only said he would Wipe Israel off the Map, Israel Will be wiped off the earths face, Israel Will Disappear From Map, he & his followers were shouting "Death to Israel."

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckLO8HcNyo&noredirect=1"]Ahmadinejad: "Death to Israel"[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hLDjGdJC0Q"]Ahmadinejad[/ame]


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## Jos (Mar 20, 2012)

I watched both of your videos in neither of them does he say  "*he* would Wipe Israel off the Map"
but then again if israel chooses to attack Iran, it may well be the end of the zionist entity currently occupying Al-Quds


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## KissMy (Mar 20, 2012)

Jos said:


> I watched both of your videos in neither of them does he say  "*he* would Wipe Israel off the Map"
> but then again if israel chooses to attack Iran, it may well be the end of the zionist entity currently occupying Al-Quds



Iran's President Ahmadinejad did say "Death to Israel" didn't *he*?


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## Hossfly (Mar 20, 2012)

Jos said:


> I watched both of your videos in neither of them does he say  "*he* would Wipe Israel off the Map"
> but then again if israel chooses to attack Iran, it may well be the end of the zionist entity currently occupying Al-Quds


The posters here who speak Farsi say differently. Do you habla the lingo?


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## Jos (Mar 20, 2012)

Farsi baladam


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## Hossfly (Mar 20, 2012)

Jos said:


> I watched both of your videos in neither of them does he say  "*he* would Wipe Israel off the Map"
> but then again if israel chooses to attack Iran, it may well be the end of the zionist entity currently occupying Al-Quds


HE? Really picking the nits.


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## Roudy (Mar 20, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > May I ask what exactly has Israel done to Iran to desere such vitriol and ongoing terrorism against it by the Islamists in Iran?
> ...


From what I remember, as soon as the revolution occured the Islamists basically declared war on Israel the little Satan.  Israel did not do anything, not one thing, to the Iranian people, country, or govt. ever, to cause this proxy / terror war that was initiated by the Islamist govt. of Iran in 1979, with the ultimate goal being the total destruction of "the Zionist entity".


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## Jos (Mar 20, 2012)

Roudy said:


> Ariux said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...



They went for the head, the ruling elite that control the US, Zionist jews


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## Ropey (Mar 20, 2012)

Why Iran's Top Leaders Believe That the End of Days Has Come

Iranian leaders seek to hasten the End of Days

Muslim Prophecies and the Appearance of Imam Mahdi

There's not much use of the MADD Philosophy with those who seek destruction in order to hasten their end of times and bring about their "Hidden Imam".

Still, they continue this path.


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## Jos (Mar 20, 2012)

enough of the talking bring on your War or hold your tongue


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## Roudy (Mar 20, 2012)

You're ignoring that we've had about 30 years of "Death to Israel" rallies organized by the Islamists in charege of Iran.  Not a week goes by without some Iranian leader or cleric telling their nation how the "end of Israel" is near, and Allah willing, they will bring it about.  Of course any country that observes another country so obsessed with it's distruction will take necessary steps to protect itself.  You cannot blame the Israelis for wanting to survive. This obsession with the destruction of Israel has materialized with bombings of embassies and Jewish / Israeli organizations, and the material and financial support of terrorist groups also dedicated to the destruction of Israel.  I ask again, what exactly has Israel done to Iran as of the 1979 revolution, that Iran has dedicated itself to the destruction of Israel?  The answer is obvious.  Nothing.  This is a religious holy war the Iranians are conducting against Israel.  Almost everything the Iranians do is predicated on furthering the cause of Jihad, Islamic (Shi'ite) domination of the world, and imposing Shariah Law.  It doesn't hurt to listen and believe what the Iranian leaders and clerics are saying once in a while, instead of making excuses for them and speaking on their behalf.


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## Jos (Mar 20, 2012)

Iran has been saying, leave us the fuck alone, israel has been pushing America and Europe to impose sanctions, Iran says attack us and your dead, is that clear?


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## KissMy (Mar 20, 2012)

Jos said:


> Iran has been saying, leave us the fuck alone, israel has been pushing America and Europe to impose sanctions, Iran says attack us and your dead, is that clear?



It is clear that you are a lier.

It is clear that Iran says "Death to Israel"

Saudi Arabia has been pushing America and Europe to attack Iran.


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## Ropey (Mar 20, 2012)

Roudy said:


> You're ignoring that we've had about 30 years of "Death to Israel" rallies organized by the Islamists in charege of Iran.  Not a week goes by without some Iranian leader or cleric telling their nation how the "end of Israel" is near, and Allah willing, they will bring it about.  Of course any country that observes another country so obsessed with it's distruction will take necessary steps to protect itself.  You cannot blame the Israelis for wanting to survive. This obsession with the destruction of Israel has materialized with bombings of embassies and Jewish / Israeli organizations, and the material and financial support of terrorist groups also dedicated to the destruction of Israel.  I ask again, what exactly has Israel done to Iran as of the 1979 revolution, that Iran has dedicated itself to the destruction of Israel?  The answer is obvious.  Nothing.  This is a religious holy war the Iranians are conducting against Israel.  Almost everything the Iranians do is predicated on furthering the cause of Jihad, Islamic (Shi'ite) domination of the world, and imposing Shariah Law.  It doesn't hurt to listen and believe what the Iranian leaders and clerics are saying once in a while, instead of making excuses for them and speaking on their behalf.



Yes, that's clear to me.


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## Jos (Mar 20, 2012)

KissMy said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Iran has been saying, leave us the fuck alone, israel has been pushing America and Europe to impose sanctions, Iran says attack us and your dead, is that clear?
> ...



*Saudi Arabia has been pushing America and Europe to attack Iran*
who told you that? the jews?


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## KissMy (Mar 20, 2012)

Jos said:


> KissMy said:
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> > Jos said:
> ...



Saudi king urged U.S. to attack Iran

Iraqi government officials see Saudi Arabia, not Iran, as the biggest threat to the integrity and cohesion of their fledgling democratic state.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 20, 2012)

Jos said:


> KissMy said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
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Wikileaks as reported by the Guardian and almost every other major news outlet.  



> King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has repeatedly urged the United States to attack Iran to destroy its nuclear programme, according to leaked US diplomatic cables that describe how other Arab allies have secretly agitated for military action against Tehran.
> 
> The revelations, in secret memos from US embassies across the Middle East, expose behind-the-scenes pressures in the scramble to contain the Islamic Republic, which the US, Arab states and Israel suspect is close to acquiring nuclear weapons. Bombing Iranian nuclear facilities has hitherto been viewed as a desperate last resort that could ignite a far wider war.
> 
> ...



Saudi Arabia urges US attack on Iran to stop nuclear programme | World news | The Guardian


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## Hossfly (Mar 20, 2012)

Jos said:


> Iran has been saying, leave us the fuck alone, israel has been pushing America and Europe to impose sanctions, Iran says attack us and your dead, is that clear?


Are you working for the Islamic Republic of Iran, Jos?  You certainly want to just gloss over all they have said about Israel.  No doubt you missed some radio show from years ago when a top expert on Iran said that it was overhead by one of the higher ups in Iran saying that once they go nuclear, the Zionists will be no more.  I guess most of the readers are sharp enough to see that not only does Jos pay no attention to what the Iranian leaders have said regarding Israel for years on end, but he also seems to pay no attention to what any of the Muslim leaders have said about destroying the "Zionists."


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## MJB12741 (Mar 20, 2012)

Look at the bright side Jos.  ZOG RULES!  And as long as ZOG RULES there will never be an Islamization of the USA.  Repeat after me --- God bless Zog!



Jos said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Ariux said:
> ...


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 21, 2012)

Jos said:


> Iran has been saying, leave us the fuck alone, israel has been pushing America and Europe to impose sanctions, Iran says attack us and your dead, is that clear?



Iran has been saying :"We want to erase Israel from the pages of history."
then it has been saying :"We are initiating a "peaceful" nuclear program , so leave us the fuck alone until such time we get our "peaceful" nuclear weapons so we could bomb whoever we want and you'll won't be able to stand against us."

Iran is 98% Muslim, having nuclear weapons in the hands of religiously brainwashed people is dangerous, not only to Israel.


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## Roudy (Mar 21, 2012)

Jos said:


> Iran has been saying, leave us the fuck alone, israel has been pushing America and Europe to impose sanctions, Iran says attack us and your dead, is that clear?



Did the regime in Iran leave Israel alone, or plot it's destruction the moment they took over in 1979?


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 21, 2012)

Won't Israel's flag look pretty flying all over Tehran?


----------



## ima (Mar 21, 2012)

Israel has no nukes, they're toast.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 21, 2012)

ima said:


> Israel has no nukes, they're toast.


Not toast. Bagels, mama.


----------



## pbel (Mar 21, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Iran has been saying, leave us the fuck alone, israel has been pushing America and Europe to impose sanctions, Iran says attack us and your dead, is that clear?
> ...



America must act in her-own self interests not Israel's. All this protecting her has cost America part of 9/11, and two wars. America can do without ME Oil is she wanted to...She only imports 18%.

Israel is no longer needed as a strategic puppet regime which was intended 60 years ago. Two Aircraft Carriers today probaby have more fire-power that the IDF...

Israel through AIPAC and her moneyed friends control American Politics. Sharon's boast of "We control America" was not an empty boast.

The Internet is making these connections more obvious, and I tell you, the American People will go for Finance Reform Laws when this is over.

Ron Paul's message is spreading in the Campuses, getting bigger each year.


----------



## Hossfly (Mar 21, 2012)

pbel said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...


Phil, I guess  you never got the message that the reporter, Syndicated Columnist Georgiae Anne Geyer, apologized for that remark since Sharon never said that.


----------



## ima (Mar 22, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Iran has been saying, leave us the fuck alone, israel has been pushing America and Europe to impose sanctions, Iran says attack us and your dead, is that clear?
> ...



97% of Pakistan is muslim and they have nukes, have they nuked Israel yet?

And a good portion of the US population wants Iran to nuke Israel because armageddon has to start in the Middle East, or Jesus won't come back. Morons.


----------



## KissMy (Mar 22, 2012)

ima said:


> 97% of Pakistan is muslim and they have nukes, have they nuked Israel yet?
> 
> And a good portion of the US population wants Iran to nuke Israel because armageddon has to start in the Middle East, or Jesus won't come back. Morons.



Pakistan is more interested in fighting with India than it is with Israel. Also Pakistan's missiles can't penetrate all the defenses between them & Israel. Then there is the retaliation that Pakistan knows they can't survive.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 22, 2012)

KissMy said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > 97% of Pakistan is muslim and they have nukes, have they nuked Israel yet?
> ...



Also , I don't remember the Pakistani president saying "Israel should be erased from the pages of history".

In addition , Pakistan having a bomb is not a good thing ... The fact they didn't attack anybody *yet* does not mean it would be a good idea to have another Islamic country with a bomb.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 22, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...



You are misinformed.  Recent polls consistently show the majority of Americans support either a US or Israeli strike to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.  For example:



> The poll showed 56 percent of Americans would support U.S. military action against Iran if there were evidence of a nuclear weapon program. Thirty-nine percent of Americans opposed military strikes.
> 
> Asked whether they would back U.S. military action if it led to higher gasoline prices, 53 percent of Americans said they would, while 42 percent said they would not.
> 
> The Reuters/Ipsos poll also found that 62 percent of Americans would back Israel taking military action against Iran for the same reasons.



Most Americans would back U.S. strike over Iran nuclear weapon: poll | Reuters

In fact, support for a strike against Iran is stronger among Americans than it is among Israelis.



> A new poll released Wednesday finds that most Israelis are against a military strike on Irans nuclear facilities.
> 
> The poll, which was conducted by Panel Project and reported on Channel 10 News, asked Israelis about their feelings regarding an attack in Iran, the performance of the prime minister and who is best suited to serve as prime minister of Israel.
> 
> ...



Israelis Against Strike but Satisfied with PM - Inside Israel - News - Israel National News


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 22, 2012)

I hope Israel takes care of business with Iran real soon to put a stop to Iran's threats.


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## ima (Mar 23, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I hope Israel takes care of business with Iran real soon to put a stop to Iran's threats.



So how do you think they'll do that? Blow the whole friggin country up?


----------



## ima (Mar 23, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



I think if Pakistan tries to use a nuke, there's a 50/50 chance that they'll blow THEMSELVES up!

I don't get an attack on Iran, what are they going to do? And do anyone really think that that would make Iran go: ok, that's enough, we're stopping our nuke program.

And the pollsters should have asked: would you like to pay $10 for a gallon of gas to make Israel happy?


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## Roudy (Mar 23, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...



Pakistani nukes were developed as a counterbalance to India, has nothing to do with Israel.


----------



## Roudy (Mar 23, 2012)

pbel said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...



Two aircraft carriers are equal to the IDF?  Why do all Ron Paul supporters say things more ridiculous than him? Is there such a thing as Ron Paul Supporter Psychosis?


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 23, 2012)

There is a young, well educated & growing pro democracy youth movement in Iran.  Let us hope for another Iranian revolution to oust the dictator, Mullahs & Ayatollahs before Iran goes nuclear.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 24, 2012)

No need for nukes.  Just a few sorties now to let Iran know Israel eagerly awaits playing whatever advanced game Iran wants to play.





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I hope Israel takes care of business with Iran real soon to put a stop to Iran's threats.
> ...


----------



## ima (Mar 24, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> No need for nukes.  Just a few sorties now to let Iran know Israel eagerly awaits playing whatever advanced game Iran wants to play.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And you're willing to pay $10 for a gallon of gas for a couple of useless sorties? Sure you are.

Unless Israeli proves that it has nukes, there is no possible deterrent. 
Would the US nuke Iran if Iran nuked Israel? Very doubtful. But then gas would be so expensive, we'd all be walking.


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 24, 2012)

The last thing I would want to see is for Israel to "prove it has nukes."  But for you, the good news is that if Iran keeps up with it's current agenda, your wish will come true.




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > No need for nukes.  Just a few sorties now to let Iran know Israel eagerly awaits playing whatever advanced game Iran wants to play.
> ...


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Mar 24, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > No need for nukes.  Just a few sorties now to let Iran know Israel eagerly awaits playing whatever advanced game Iran wants to play.
> ...



Most Americans would support a US or Israeli strike against Iran even if it meant higher gas prices.  



> The poll showed 56 percent of Americans would support U.S. military action against Iran if there were evidence of a nuclear weapon program. Thirty-nine percent of Americans opposed military strikes.
> 
> Asked whether they would back U.S. military action if it led to higher gasoline prices, 53 percent of Americans said they would, while 42 percent said they would not.
> 
> The Reuters/Ipsos poll also found that 62 percent of Americans would back Israel taking military action against Iran for the same reasons.



Most Americans would back U.S. strike over Iran nuclear weapon: poll | Reuters

However, there is reason to believe an Israeli/US strike will bring oil prices down after a short spike.  If Israel were to strike Iran's nuclear weapons and long range missile programs and Iran were to retaliate against US interests, the two supercarrier groups in the Gulf would devastate Iran's military assets and R&D programs, thus eliminating any Iranian threat to Gulf oil shipments, and if Iran did not retaliate against any US interests, investors would assume there was no credible threat to Gulf oil; in either case, oil prices would drop.  

It is nonsense to claim such a strike would only set back Iran's nuclear weapons program by a few years.  The people who have made such claims have not taken into account the devastating effect the sanctions are having on Iran's economy.  If the sanctions stay in effect after the strike, Iran will be struggling for years just to rebuild its conventional forces and it will be virtually impossible for it to continue investing in nuclear weapons and long range missile programs.


----------



## Ariux (Mar 24, 2012)

Roudy said:


> Pakistani nukes were developed as a counterbalance to India, has nothing to do with Israel.



A fundamentalist Muslim country with nukes, specially the one that helped bring the Taliban to power?  The reason there hasn't been a big public is because American leaders didn't try to terrorize Americans with the specter of Paki nukes.  Only the ignorant sheep think a nuclear Iran is any more dangerous than a nuclear Pakistan or a nuclear Israel.


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Mar 24, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Pakistani nukes were developed as a counterbalance to India, has nothing to do with Israel.
> ...



You're making no sense.  Iranian nukes may be no more dangerous to Iceland or Argentina than Pakistani or Israeli nukes, but they are certainly more dangerous to Israel, the US, the Gulf Arab states and western Europe than Pakistani or Israeli nukes.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 25, 2012)

Ariux said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Pakistani nukes were developed as a counterbalance to India, has nothing to do with Israel.
> ...



Pakistan already have nukes , nothing can done about it.

Saying that another fundamentalist Muslim country with nuclear weapons is not a threat is dumb, expecially with the lame excuse that there's already a fundamental Muslim country in possession of nukes.


----------



## rhodescholar (Mar 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If it was the USA who was threatened with a nuclear attack by a foreign country, would we do nothing at all about it like Israel has so far?



This is the obscene double standard the US expects others to accept.

When pakistan sent terrorists into the Indian parliament to murder their officials about 10 years ago, the Indian government threatened a massive war - which they should have done - but the US held them back.

When pakistan sent in more terrorists to mumbai a few years ago, murdering 150-200 civilians, again the US held India back from retaliating.

Can you imagine France or some other country telling the US not to respond if country X sent in operatives and murdered 20 US senators and congressmen?  Personally, I might not get TOO upset depending upon which ones they were - particularly if nancy pelosi, john kerry, and barney frank were among them - but even still, the US would not accept anything but a complete smashing of the offending country.

And the US expects Israel to sit still while iran uses out-of-uniform terrorist army proxies to slaughter its people, and do nothing...


----------



## rhodescholar (Mar 25, 2012)

Jos said:


> > Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's president has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map." Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made.
> 
> 
> 'Wiped off the Map'  The Rumor of the Century - by Arash Norouzi



Another paid for lying fucking turd.... 

Go to ahmadinejad's own website, the translation is right there...

This is like reading the garbage from the same mentally ill iran apologists when they make up nonsense when the iranians chant "Death to America!", trying to pretend it really means they want the US to "elect new officials" or some other euphemistic bullshit.

These people are so fucking stupid, its astounding how they have the ability to actually turn on the computer to type such crap on.


----------



## rhodescholar (Mar 25, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > If Iran is threatened by israel, do you think they should do nothing too?
> ...



Its at the point i don't give a shit what they are saying, I'm more concerned with how they have been using relentless terrorism against israel for over 20 years to murder its citizens.

When does Israel also get to fire rockets into Teheran, blow up school buses, and machine gun people walking in the street?


----------



## ima (Mar 25, 2012)

Personally I don't care if Iran gets nukes, since there is zero chance of them sending one my way. And I've been thinking about it and I've come to the conclusion that it wouldn't affect me at all if Iran nukes Israel. If the price of gas goes too high, I'll just buy an electric car.

India didn't nuke Pakistan because they couldn't find an elephant big enough to carry the bomb over there.


----------



## rhodescholar (Mar 25, 2012)

ima said:


> Unless Israeli proves that it has nukes, there is no possible deterrent.



How would you like israel to "prove" iran has nuclear weapons, and what "evidence" would be sufficient to convince the mentally ill far left/jew-hating filth and other trash that iran does actually have a nuke weapons program?


----------



## rhodescholar (Mar 25, 2012)

ima said:


> Personally I don't care if Iran gets nukes, since there is zero chance of them sending one my way. And I've been thinking about it and I've come to the conclusion that it wouldn't affect me at all if Iran nukes Israel. If the price of gas goes too high, I'll just buy an electric car.
> 
> India didn't nuke Pakistan because they couldn't find an elephant big enough to carry the bomb over there.



That's great for you, you fucking idiot asshole, but there are those of us who DO care, so go back to playing with playmobile and STFU already.  Stay out of the adult threads section.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 25, 2012)

If some foreign country threatened to attack the USA, kill us Americans & annihilate our country, we sure as hell wouldn't do nothing at all about it like Israel has done so far.  Shame on Netanyahu for not doing what is morally right to protect & defend his country & his citizens.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 25, 2012)

pbel said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...




Why people talk about things they know nothing about ? 



> America must act in her-own self interests not Israel's. All this protecting her has cost America part of 9/11, and two wars.



I'd love for you to point out the two wars America fought because it was protecting Israel.

9/11 was caused by a religious nut job (Whom America was arming and training against Russians.) Who believed that Israel wants to conquer *all* the Arab countries around it.

America acts on her-own self interests , you are just too blind to see it...


----------



## ima (Mar 25, 2012)

rhodescholar said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Unless Israeli proves that it has nukes, there is no possible deterrent.
> ...



I guess English isn't your first language. I said unless Israel proves that it itself has nukes, they can't deter anyone.


----------



## ima (Mar 25, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> If some foreign country threatened to attack the USA, kill us Americans & annihilate our country, we sure as hell wouldn't do nothing at all about it like Israel has done so far.  Shame on Netanyahu for not doing what is morally right to protect & defend his country & his citizens.



Netanyahoo didn't do anything because he's powerless to stop the Iranians and it'll just give the Iranians the perfect excuse to retaliate with a nuke.


----------



## ima (Mar 25, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> I'd love for you to point out the two wars America fought because it was protecting Israel.



Afghanistan and Irak. 

And just so you know, Osama said that 9/11 was retaliation for what's going on in Palestine.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiKyWJRRjnU]Osama/Usama Bin Laden On 9/11 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 25, 2012)

Like I told you before.  The good news for you is that if Iran keeps up with its current nuclear agenda, Israel will indeed prove it has nukes to set your simple mind at ease.




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > If some foreign country threatened to attack the USA, kill us Americans & annihilate our country, we sure as hell wouldn't do nothing at all about it like Israel has done so far.  Shame on Netanyahu for not doing what is morally right to protect & defend his country & his citizens.
> ...


----------



## rhodescholar (Mar 25, 2012)

ima said:


> Netanyahoo didn't do anything because he's powerless to stop the Iranians and it'll just give the Iranians the perfect excuse to retaliate with a nuke.



Oh, but I _ thought _ there was "no proof" they had one...the low IQ of these fucking idiots here is astounding.


----------



## rhodescholar (Mar 25, 2012)

ima said:


> Afghanistan and Irak.



Only the mentally ill believe the US attacked afghan and iraq on israel's behalf.  Another low level trolling idiot put on ignore...bubye, fuckbrain...


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 25, 2012)

Have you heard the news?  You see, the USA was attacked on our own soil on 911 by radical Islamists based in Afghanistan, so now we are fighting a war for Israel.  It's called Palestinian mentality.  Heh Heh.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd love for you to point out the two wars America fought because it was protecting Israel.
> ...



Just so you know , Osama said that 9/11 is retaliation for American support of the Israeli plan to take over all neighboring Arab countries, *which is crazy* .



> We know at least one reason behind the symbolic participation of the Western forces and that is to support the Jewish and *Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel.*  Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region.  ...  Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve *full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel.  ...*
> Read more: Who Is Bin Laden? - Interview With Osama Bin Laden (in May 1998) | Hunting Bin Laden | FRONTLINE | PBS
> ​


If you have no clue what Arab Peninsula means , it includes the countries:


> The peninsula's constituent countries are (clockwise north to south) Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) on the east, Oman on the southeast, Yemen on the south and Saudi Arabia at the center.[4] The island nation of Bahrain lies off the east coast of the peninsula.


Arabian Peninsula - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




> Afghanistan and Irak.


(It's spelled Iraq but I'm the last person to give spelling corrections)
Those wars are totally unrelated to the protection of Israel. Or Israel in general for that matter.

What's your case here exactly ?


----------



## ima (Mar 26, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Just so you know , Osama said that 9/11 is retaliation for American support of the Israeli plan to take over all neighboring Arab countries, *which is crazy* .
> 
> (It's spelled Iraq but I'm the last person to give spelling corrections)
> Those wars are totally unrelated to the protection of Israel. Or Israel in general for that matter.
> ...



You think the arabs think that Israel wants to take over all those countries you mention? Link please, because I've never heard that, it's kinda absurd.

The US attacked Irak because they supposedly had weapons of mass destruction, and since they'd already attacked Israel and were paying the families of suicide bombers in Israel something like $25,000, I'd say that that war could be seen as protecting Israel.

As for Afghanistan, the US originally went in there to get Al-Qaeda and Osama, the people responsible for 9/11, and in the video of Osama above, he clearly states that 9/11 is retaliation for what's going on in Palestine. So by taking out all those baddies, we're protecting Israel, who gave us 9/11 in the first place.

Now we're threatening Iran for Israel. Do you want me to explain that to you as well?


----------



## ima (Mar 26, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Like I told you before.  The good news for you is that if Iran keeps up with its current nuclear agenda, Israel will indeed prove it has nukes to set your simple mind at ease.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Israel is powerless to stop Iran from doing anything, it's just too big of a country. Even if Israel does a surgical strike on the Iranian nuke facilities, they'll just move it all underground next time, so really, only an extra 5 year delay or so. And Israel wouldn't pre-emptively nuke Iran, that also is impossible because the country is too big, it would be pointless. So we'll only find out about the Israeli nukes once they've been nuked themselves. Which is why I'd get the fuck out of there asap if I was an Israeli and go back to the country that i came from.


----------



## Ropey (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Like I told you before.  The good news for you is that if Iran keeps up with its current nuclear agenda, Israel will indeed prove it has nukes to set your simple mind at ease.
> ...



Surgical?

Nuclear vs nuclear in a pre-emptive strike. 

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israel has clarified its position long ago with regards to preemption.


----------



## MJB12741 (Mar 26, 2012)

Seriously Ima, when you were just a little baby, did someone stick their thumb in your soft spot?  All Israel asks of the USA regarding Israel is for us to leave Israel alone to take care of business to protect & defend Israel.




ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Just so you know , Osama said that 9/11 is retaliation for American support of the Israeli plan to take over all neighboring Arab countries, *which is crazy* .
> ...


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Just so you know , Osama said that 9/11 is retaliation for American support of the Israeli plan to take over all neighboring Arab countries, *which is crazy* .
> ...



The US invasion of Iraq in no way protected Israel, since Iraq had not been a threat to Israel for many years.  The first Gulf War was fought to liberate Kuwait and protect Saudi Arabia from Saddam because his aggressions threatened the Gulf oil supply, and the second Gulf War was for the purpose of ending the unsustainable policy of containment of Saddam's Iraq that required a large US military presence in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.  It was this large US military presence in Saudi Arabia, which hadn't existed before the first Gulf War, that motivated al Qaeda's attacks, including 911, on the US.  Bin Laden's claim that 911 was related to the disputes between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs was an appeal to Arab anti semitism made only after his actions and rhetoric had failed to produce the kind of support among Arabs he had hoped for and is clearly contradicted by the fact that al Qaeda, regardless of its rhetoric, never demonstrated any interest in the Palestinian Arabs and still hasn't to this day.  It has long been as required of Arab leaders to appeal to Arab anti semitism as it once was of politicians in America's segregated South to appeal to white racism.  

Israel had nothing to gain from America's wars with Saddam's Iraq, however, as diplomatic cables exposed by Wikileaks have shown, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Jordan, UAE and Egypt, as well as Israel have all urged the US to stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons by any means necessary, including military.  Since Iran is currently working on developing long range missile, Shahab 6 and Shahab 7, that would be able to deliver a nuclear warhead to any target in Western Europe or the Eastern US, the US and Europe have a shared common interest with Israel and the Arab states in stopping Iran's nuclear weapons and long range missile programs by any means necessary.


----------



## ima (Mar 26, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



When the US invaded Irak, it wasn't to save Kurds for WMD, that's for sure, and it wasn't just to contain Saddam, and granted it for sure wasn't solely to protect Israel, but c'mon you say Israel had nothing to gain from the US attacking Irak? And you think that what's going on in Palestine played a secondary if not completely minor role in 9/11? I mean, ok, if you willfully want to be blind, that's you're right. Enjoy.


----------



## ima (Mar 26, 2012)

Ropey said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



So you saying that you think that Israel is about to hit Iran with nukes to stop their nuke program? LOL, wrong, better luck next time.


----------



## ima (Mar 26, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Seriously Ima, when you were just a little baby, did someone stick their thumb in your soft spot?  All Israel asks of the USA regarding Israel is for us to leave Israel alone to take care of business to protect & defend Israel.



All the Israelis want from us for us to "protect & defend" them?

Yes.


----------



## JStone (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...







Go sit in the dunce's corner, dunce.  Iraq kept Iran in check, precluding Iran from furthering its hegemony over the region and threatening Israel.  It was in Israel's interest for Saddam to remain in power.


----------



## ima (Mar 26, 2012)

JStone said:


> Go sit in the dunce's corner, dunce.  Iraq kept Iran in check, precluding Iran from furthering its hegemony over the region and threatening Israel.  It was in Israel's interest for Saddam to remain in power.



So everything is about protecting Israel? 

Yes.


----------



## JStone (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Go sit in the dunce's corner, dunce.  Iraq kept Iran in check, precluding Iran from furthering its hegemony over the region and threatening Israel.  It was in Israel's interest for Saddam to remain in power.
> ...



Israel protects itself, dunce.  The Israelis spanked multiple muslime armies in '67 in just 6 days and you motherfuckers can't even defeat a bunch of sand rats in Iraq and Afghanistan in 10 years.


----------



## ima (Mar 26, 2012)

JStone said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...



So Israel doesn't need the US to help protect it?


----------



## JStone (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...







Dunce, the US did not protect Israel in the '67 war.  The US and Israel did not establish full diplomatic and military relations until after the war.  Stay in the dunce's corner until you open a history book.

How are you MOFOs doing against the camel herders in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



In other words, you can't think of any way in which the wars with Iraq protected Israel, and while all the evidence shows that bin Laden's motivation for al Qaeda attacks on the US, including 911, was the large US military presence in Saudi Arabia and that al Qaeda has never demonstrated any interest in the Palestinian Arabs, you choose to base your opinion on a single propaganda video.


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



The US doesn't protect Israel, it protects shared common interests with Israel.  Israel has long been the US's most important strategic ally.  In 1967 and 1973, without any US assistance, it stopped the spread of Soviet influence in ME, giving the West one of its few victories in the Cold War, and its peace treaty with Egypt established the US as the preeminent power in the ME.  To this day, much of the US's credibility and influence with the Arab nations and the Palestinian Arabs is based on its perceived influence in Israel.  When Obama lost credibility with the Israelis, he began to lose credibility with the Palestinian Arabs and other Arabs.

Israel won all of its major wars without any US military assistance, and it could have continued to do so, but without the US providing it with a qualitative edge over potential adversaries, it would have had to rely more heavily on a policy of preemption, meaning there would have been more frequent wars in the ME and this would have been damaging to US interests, so by helping Israel to stay strong, the US is protecting its own interests in the ME.


----------



## ima (Mar 26, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> The US doesn't protect Israel, it protects shared common interests with Israel.  Israel has long been the US's most important strategic ally.  In 1967 and 1973, without any US assistance, it stopped the spread of Soviet influence in ME, giving the West one of its few victories in the Cold War, and its peace treaty with Egypt established the US as the preeminent power in the ME.  To this day, much of the US's credibility and influence with the Arab nations and the Palestinian Arabs is based on its perceived influence in Israel.  When Obama lost credibility with the Israelis, he began to lose credibility with the Palestinian Arabs and other Arabs.
> 
> Israel won all of its major wars without any US military assistance, and it could have continued to do so, but without the US providing it with a qualitative edge over potential adversaries, it would have had to rely more heavily on a policy of preemption, meaning there would have been more frequent wars in the ME and this would have been damaging to US interests, so by helping Israel to stay strong, the US is protecting its own interests in the ME.



Israel's only interest is to survive, as an American, why should i care about that? They don't even have any oil. They serve absolutely no strategic interest to the US. The only reason is the American Jewish lobby...

If you don't think that Palestine was the dominating factor behind 9/11 (yes, the military presence was also a factor, but a smaller one), well, you're welcome to your opinion.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Just so you know , Osama said that 9/11 is retaliation for American support of the Israeli plan to take over all neighboring Arab countries, *which is crazy* .
> ...





> You think the arabs think that Israel wants to take over all those  countries you mention? Link please, because I've never heard that, it's  kinda absurd.


I didn't say that Arabs think that (Though i won't be surprised ),
I said that it's what Osama said in an interview.


> We know at least one reason behind the symbolic participation of the Western forces and that is to support the *Jewish and Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel*.  Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region.  ...  Their presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve *full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel.  ...*
> Read more: Who Is Bin Laden? - Interview With Osama Bin Laden (in May 1998) | Hunting Bin Laden | FRONTLINE | PBS
> ​





> it's  kinda absurd











> The US attacked Irak because they supposedly had weapons of mass  destruction, and since they'd already attacked Israel and were paying  the families of suicide bombers in Israel something like $25,000, I'd  say that that war* could be seen as* protecting Israel.


It's spelled Iraq.
What's the source of your info I wonder , because it doesn't make any scene.
Egypt , Syria, Jordan , and Lebanon also attacked Israel , why didn't the US conquer them ?

The reason for the war in Iraq is oil , not Israel.

About your statement of Osama , I already told you that he thought that Israel wants to control the entire *Arab Peninsula, *which is crazy and has no place in reality.

PS, 
again I don't know where you take your delusional info from , i suggest you would read non-biased sources like wikipidia.
If you think that support of Israel is the only reason for 9\11 you are gravely mistaken.
Motives for the September 11 attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 26, 2012)

ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > The US doesn't protect Israel, it protects shared common interests with Israel.  Israel has long been the US's most important strategic ally.  In 1967 and 1973, without any US assistance, it stopped the spread of Soviet influence in ME, giving the West one of its few victories in the Cold War, and its peace treaty with Egypt established the US as the preeminent power in the ME.  To this day, much of the US's credibility and influence with the Arab nations and the Palestinian Arabs is based on its perceived influence in Israel.  When Obama lost credibility with the Israelis, he began to lose credibility with the Palestinian Arabs and other Arabs.
> ...



Perhaps you don't understand the concept of shared common interests.  As an American you should appreciate that Israel's victories in 1967 and 1973 relieved the US from having to send US soldiers to the ME to stop the spread of Soviet influence from reaching the Gulf, and as an American you should appreciate the fact that US interests are protected by keeping Israel strong enough so that it doesn't have to launch preemptive attacks to protect itself against adversaries because these wars would be damaging to US interests in the ME.  

Your remark about the influence of the "American Jewish Lobby" would have been more appropriate in 19th century Russia or 1930's Germany than it is in the US in 2012.  American politicians support Israel so strongly because the American public overwhelmingly supports Israel over its adversaries.  For example, in the latest Gallup poll, Americans supported Israel over the Palestinian Arabs by 61% to 19%.  

Again, there is absolutely no reason to think the disputes between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs had anything to do with 911 other than a single propaganda video and to claim it did is the moral equivalent of claiming segregation in the southern states was for the purpose of protecting white women from black rapists.


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## JStone (Mar 26, 2012)

Israel is 3000 years old.  

The defunct persian empire lasted only 200 years and ended 2300 years ago.  Iran is a pathetic shithole.

Moses Rules!


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## MJB12741 (Mar 26, 2012)

When will the USA quit telling Israel what it can & cannot do & just unleash Israel with our blessings to take good care of our radical Islamist enemies in the Middle East who are killing us Americans & all other infidels they can all over the world today.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 26, 2012)

Yes, Iran is now a shithole.  But the Persian Empire lasted over 1200 years, not 200 years.  And Israel was under rule of the Persian kings for all that period.  

Achamenids 648 B.C.E. to 330 B.C.E.  Parthian (Aracid) 247 B.C.E. to 229 C.E.  Sassanian 229 B.C.E. to 600 C.E.  Selucid rule (Greek after Alexander conquest) was from only 331 B.C.E. to 247 B.C.E. And then came the Muslim invasion of Persia.  Hard to believe Iran was once THE GREATEST NATION ON EARTH..  The very heart of the Persian Empire.  The land of Cyrus the Great.  

From the grandeur & glory of Persepolis under Zoroastrian rule to the slums of Shiraz under Muslim rule.




JStone said:


> Israel is 3000 years old.
> 
> The defunct persian empire lasted only 200 years and ended 2300 years ago.  Iran is a pathetic shithole.
> 
> Moses Rules!


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## ima (Mar 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> When will the USA quit telling Israel what it can & cannot do & just unleash Israel with our blessings to take good care of our radical Islamist enemies in the Middle East who are killing us Americans & all other infidels they can all over the world today.



Ok, give me a winning scenario for Israel if they attack Iran. I can't picture anything useful coming out of that.


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit.  Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mScWWtRfGQ]Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map." - YouTube[/ame]


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit.  Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.
> ...



You do know that *anyone *could make a you-tube video ... 
It doesn't make it true.

Besides we all know that Ahmadinejad did not threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" he simply threatened to "Earase Israel from the pages of history". 
Big difference there ...


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 27, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



If you visit the the link on the vid it will take you to a transcript  the speech. Just because someone says he threatened to wipe Israel off the map doesn't make it so...


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 27, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Truthseeker420 said:
> ...



I'm sorry i'd rather take Wikipidia's word for it and not your propoganda vidoe 



> *The Iranian presidential website* stated that "the Zionist Regime of  Israel faces a deadend and will under God's grace be wiped off the map,"  and "the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a  cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map."[10]





> Ahmadinejad's phrase was "&#1576;&#1575;&#1610;&#1583; &#1575;&#1586; &#1589;&#1601;&#1581;&#1607; &#1585;&#1608;&#1586;&#1711;&#1575;&#1585; &#1605;&#1581;&#1608; &#1588;&#1608;&#1583;" according to the text published on the President's Office's website.[11]


Google translate :"Should be wiped off the screen"
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I also kind of trust the official Iranian Presidential website:


> President Mahmoud  Ahmadinejad said here Monday that the Zionist Regime of Israel faces a  deadend and will under God's grace be wiped off the map.


Presidency of The Islamic Republic of Iran News Service

Guess what? Turns out you are proven wrong.


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 27, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



Wiki? Really? None of what you posted proves he said he wanted to wipe Isreal off the map, even if you take it out of context. You know New York Times later rertracted that article.


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Truthseeker420 said:
> ...



Go sit in the dunce's corner.  

*Truthseeker420* 







> TEHRAN, Oct. 26 - Iran's new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, told a group of students at an anti-Israel event on Wednesday that Israel "must be wiped off the map" and that attacks by Palestinians would destroy it, the ISNA news agency reported.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/27/international/middleeast/27iran.html?_r=1



*US: Iran Supporting al Qaeda Treasury Targets Key Al-Qa*


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 27, 2012)

Iranian leader did NOT call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map' or anything like it




The rumour that Iran's leader threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" originated directly from officials in the US and Israel. 

The very first news articles in which the the "wiped off the map" claim ever appeared cite responses from western officials. This is because western officials were in fact the source of the mistranslation. The speech by Ahmadinejad was not heard of in the west, and was certainly not headline news, until after western officials presented it to the media with their own false, headline-making interpretation, and with their own spin. 

The news first appeared in the New York Times, and subsequently by Fox News under the headline "Iranian leader: Israel will be destroyed". The interpretation took on a life of its own. As usual, the lie makes much more sensational headlines than the truth, and the corporate media and Zionist lobby quickly adopted the story. It has been variously re-interpreted with ever more terrifying meanings; for instance a "threat" to "exterminate millions of Jews in Israel" to quote a jewish columnist in Britain speaking on TV in 2007. The false quote has been repeated so often, it has become common knowledge; an established fact in the minds of the public.

To "wipe something off the map" is in fact an English idiom, an English saying. There is no Farsi equivalent, and the two languages are so different that there is no single correct translation, but there is no way that the words could be translated as "wipe Israel off the map". This is not a translation; it is an interpretation, and a wildly inaccurate one. 

The map of Palestine was effectively redrawn on May 14, 1948, when the state of "Israel" was declared. The UN formally acknowledges that the occupation of parts of Palestine by Israel is "illegal".

The Insider - Iranian leader did NOT call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map' or anything like it


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> Iranian leader did NOT call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map' or anything like it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Insider, dunce?  You're dismissed.  Go sit in the dunce corner

Truthseeker420






*Iranian Students News Agency/NY Times*


> TEHRAN, Oct. 26 - Iran's new president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, told a group of students at an anti-Israel event on Wednesday that Israel "must be wiped off the map" and that attacks by Palestinians would destroy it, the ISNA news agency reported
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/27/international/middleeast/27iran.html?_r=1


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 27, 2012)

JStone said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> > Iranian leader did NOT call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map' or anything like it
> ...



The woman who wrote that story for NYT was part of the opposition movement against Ahmadinejad and later retracted the statement.


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Truthseeker420 said:
> ...



You just made that up, dunce.  Continue to sit in the dunce's corner.

Truthseeker420




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 27, 2012)

Link to the speech transcript:

"The World Without Zionism" speech transcript, October 2005 conference, Ahmadinejad


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> Link to the speech transcript:
> 
> "The World Without Zionism" speech transcript, October 2005 conference, Ahmadinejad



Dunce, Zionism is Israel.  Zion is the biblical reference to Israel and Jerusalem, dunce.

Truthseeker420


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 27, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > When will the USA quit telling Israel what it can & cannot do & just unleash Israel with our blessings to take good care of our radical Islamist enemies in the Middle East who are killing us Americans & all other infidels they can all over the world today.
> ...



Easy.  Israel does serious and expensive damage to Iran's nuclear weapons and long range missile programs, the sanctions stay in place and Iran cannot afford to rebuild its nuclear weapons and long range missile programs.  

No nukes for Iran.

No ME nuclear arms race.

No ME nuclear exchanges.


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## ima (Mar 27, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



So they rebuild. Underground. If they're not underground already.

And gas goes to $10 a gallon.

And I'll tell you why that wouldn't work, because if anyone thought it would work, they would have done it already.


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



No worries.  Moses kicks allah's ass every time.

The persian empire lasted only 200 years and was defeated by the Greeks 2300 years ago.  Israel is 3000 years old and is one of the strongest militaries in the world.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 27, 2012)

ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



If the sanctions stay in place, Iran will not be able to afford to rebuild their programs.  

There is no scenario in which gas costs $10 a gallon.  If the Iranian regime is stupid enough to respond to an Israeli attack by trying to block the Strait of Hormuz, it will be at war with the US Navy, and the two carrier groups we have stationed there are more than sufficient to destroy Iran's navy and all of its offensive capabilities.  Once that is done, oil prices should drop slightly because Iran will no longer have the capability to effect Gulf oil shipping.  If Iran does not retaliate against Gulf oil shipping, then the anxieties about whether it will will diminish and oil prices should drop.  So an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear weapons and long range missile programs should produce a drop in oil prices after a short spike and in that way benefit the global economy.

Until US forces left Iraq, the US was committed to not attacking another country from Iraq and to preventing any other country from using Iraqi airspace to attack a third country, so the window for an attack only opened up in December, however, the US and Israel, both jointly and separately, have been preparing for this attack for years, and what we are seeing now in both countries is politicians preparing public opinion for the attack.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 27, 2012)

You are wrong on the dating of the Persian Empire.  But right on the shithole it became after the Muslim conquest.

The Persian Empire lasted over 1200 years, not 200 years. And Israel was under rule of the Persian kings for all that period.  After the Selucid period with the defeat of Darius lll by Alexander, the Persian empire re-emerged Under the Parthians & the Sassanids.

Dating of Persian Empire:

Achamenids 648 B.C.E. to 330 B.C.E. Parthian (Arascid) 247 B.C.E. to 229 C.E. Sassanian 229 B.C.E. to 600 C.E. 

Selucid rule (Greek after Alexander conquest) was from only 331 B.C.E. to 247 B.C.E. And then came the Muslim invasion of Persia. Hard to believe Iran was once THE GREATEST NATION ON EARTH.. The very heart of the Persian Empire. The land of Cyrus the Great. 

From the grandeur & glory of Persepolis under Zoroastrian rule to the slums of Shiraz under Muslim rule.






JStone said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> You are wrong on the dating of the Persian Empire.  But right on the shithole it became after the Muslim conquest.



I referred to the persian empire's occupation of Israel, from ca. 538 BCE-332 BCE.  Cyrus and Darius, under the Persian empire, were kind to the Jews having ended the Babylonian exile and having permitted construction of the Second Temple.  The ignorant iranians are unaware of Cyrus's respect for the Jews


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## MJB12741 (Mar 27, 2012)

Not only were Cyrus & Darius "kind to the Jews."  All Persian Zoroastrian kings were kind to the Jews up until the reigns of Sassanid kings Adishir l & Shapur l.  And even then it was not due to any dislike of the Jews. it was an effort to be less tolerant to all others when their own faith was in jeopardy because of their tolerance to others.  In all of the 1200 years of the Persian empire the Jews were highly respected & treated most favorably with this noted exeption.  In 651 AD, the last Sassanid king Yazdagrid lll, was assasinated, thus ending the Persian empire which fell to the Arab Muslims.  The native Zoroastrians were then forced to convert, leave or be killed.  And all 3 options took place under "peaceful Islam."





JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > You are wrong on the dating of the Persian Empire.  But right on the shithole it became after the Muslim conquest.
> ...


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Not only were Cyrus & Darius "kind to the Jews."  All Persian Zoroastrian kings were kind to the Jews up until the reigns of Sassanid kings Adishir l & Shapur l.  And even then it was not due to any dislike of the Jews. it was an effort to be less tolerant to all others when their own faith was in jeopardy because of their tolerance to others.  In all of the 1200 years of the Persian empire the Jews were highly respected & treated most favorably with this noted exeption.  In 651 AD, the last Sassanid king Yazdagrid lll, was assasinated, thus ending the Persian empire which fell to the Arab Muslims.  The native Zoroastrians were then forced to convert, leave or be killed.  And all 3 options took place under "peaceful Islam."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Zoroastrianism and Judaism share the early foundation of monotheism and Cyrus had a friendly view toward the Jews in liberating them from the Babylonian exile and allowing the reconstruction of the Temple.

Incidentally, the Persians referred to Israel as Yehud [not palestine], Aramaic for Judah one of the 12 ancient Jewish Tribes.  

It was also strategically beneficial to the Persians to have the Jews as allies given the trade routes that went through Israel.

Cyrus is praised in the Hebrew Bible as the only non-Jewish Messiah for having liberated the Jews from Babylonia

Sharia law requires Zoroastrians to convert to islime or die.  Jews, as people of the book, are accorded slightly better rights as dhimmis.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 27, 2012)

Everything you have noted here is correct.  In fact, no religion has ever existed in a vacuum & no religion ever can.  Only a cult can do that if they round up all their members & hide somewhwere.

After 1200 years living under Persian rule, Jews & Zoroastrians had multiple influences upon each others faith.  I can list hundreds of scriptural writings in common from the Avesta & the Ketuvim.  And yet there are only 3 major differences of which only one has no room for reconcilliation.  There is indeed a common bond between these two faiths.  I suspect at least part of the explanation may lie in the answer to Yasna 46.1

"To what land to flee?  Whereto shall I go?  They exclude me from my family & my clan.  My community does not satisfy me, nor those who are the deceitful rulers of the land.  How, then, shall I satisfy Thee, Wise Lord?

Translation by Stanley Insler:  The Gathas of Zarathustra

One of the few remaining questions of Zoroastrianism I have yet to find the answer to is --- In what land is he at the time this was written & --- to what land did he go?




JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Not only were Cyrus & Darius "kind to the Jews."  All Persian Zoroastrian kings were kind to the Jews up until the reigns of Sassanid kings Adishir l & Shapur l.  And even then it was not due to any dislike of the Jews. it was an effort to be less tolerant to all others when their own faith was in jeopardy because of their tolerance to others.  In all of the 1200 years of the Persian empire the Jews were highly respected & treated most favorably with this noted exeption.  In 651 AD, the last Sassanid king Yazdagrid lll, was assasinated, thus ending the Persian empire which fell to the Arab Muslims.  The native Zoroastrians were then forced to convert, leave or be killed.  And all 3 options took place under "peaceful Islam."
> ...


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## JStone (Mar 27, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Everything you have noted here is correct.  In fact, no religion has ever existed in a vacuum & no religion ever can.  Only a cult can do that if they round up all their members & hide somewhwere.
> 
> After 1200 years living under Persian rule, Jews & Zoroastrians had multiple influences upon each others faith.  I can list hundreds of scriptural writings in common from the Avesta & the Ketuvim.  And yet there are only 3 major differences of which only one has no room for reconcilliation.  There is indeed a common bond between these two faiths.  I suspect at least part of the explanation may lie in the answer to Yasna 46.1
> 
> ...



It's speculated that Zoroaster and the Jews exiled in Babylonia co-mingled and influenced one anothers' theological doctrines of monotheism.   

Scholars believe it was in Babylonia that the Torah was codified and later presented to the Jews who returned to Judah courtesy of Cyrus and Darius.  Jew is derived from Judah.


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## ima (Mar 28, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...



Ok, I'm with you on the oil scenario, I hope that's the case. But Iran not being able to afford a billion or two for something like nukes, especially AFTER they've just being attacked by their sworn enemy Israel? Hmmm, not sure about that. If you attack Iran, they will eventually retaliate, and you'd just have given them a good reason to retaliate. So it makes no sense. Israel in an open war with Iran? I don't see that happening. There's no winning scenario for Israel.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



The brilliant Jews have been kicking the asses of the dumb backward muslimes for 60 years and will do so for another 60 and another 60 still.

Moses Rules.  Allah Sucks.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 28, 2012)

ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



Let's be realistic, Iran has been attacking Israel for decades through its Arab proxies, Hamas Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad, and it is a core value of the regime that Israel has to be destroyed.  If Iran had the power to destroy Israel it would have.  An Israeli attack on Iran's nuclear facilities is an effort to preempt an escalation of Iran's war against Israel by stopping their nuclear weapons and long range missile programs.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > toomuchtime_ said:
> ...



US: Iran Supporting al Qaeda Treasury Targets Key Al-Qa


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

The Babylonian excile has led me to an extensive study of Jewish/Zoroastrian relations throughout history.  Little has been written on this subject but there is a wealth of information available on Zoroastrian history, scripture, teachings & obsevances as a starting point.  In part I did my study with an orthodox Parsi via the internet for over 6 months.  I believe the Babylonian excile is the second most important event in Jewish history, second only to the exodus.  And I have wondered if Judaism could have survived without the Persian kings of the Persian empire.




JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Everything you have noted here is correct.  In fact, no religion has ever existed in a vacuum & no religion ever can.  Only a cult can do that if they round up all their members & hide somewhwere.
> ...


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The Babylonian excile has led me to an extensive study of Jewish/Zoroastrian relations throughout history.  Little has been written on this subject but there is a wealth of information available on Zoroastrian history, scripture, teachings & obsevances as a starting point.  In part I did my study with an orthodox Parsi via the internet for over 6 months.  I believe the Babylonian excile is the second most important event in Jewish history, second only to the exodus.  And I have wondered if Judaism could have survived without the Persian kings of the Persian empire.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Scholars suggest the Roman destruction of the Second Temple in the first century CE was the turning point in Judaism as it ushered in the period of Rabbinic Judaism and the Mishnah and Talmud that represent Judaism, today.  

With the destruction of the Temple, the central place of worship, the Jewish community established synagogues to replace the Temple.

Additionally, the Yeshiva academy of Jewish learning, the model for the European academic system, was established as a consequence of the destruction of the Temple as key figures such as Rabbi Johanan Ben Zakkai foresaw the need to no longer rely on the Temple for the furtherance of Jewish thought and teachings.

Ironically, it was the Roman Emperor Vespasian, whose son Titus led the destruction of the Temple, who permitted Rabbi Zakkai to build the Yeshiva.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

I doubt that Vespasian was any friend of the Jews, although certainly not their worst enemy.  It was he, the Roman general, who Emperor Nero appointed to crush the Jewish rebellion at Masada.




JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The Babylonian excile has led me to an extensive study of Jewish/Zoroastrian relations throughout history.  Little has been written on this subject but there is a wealth of information available on Zoroastrian history, scripture, teachings & obsevances as a starting point.  In part I did my study with an orthodox Parsi via the internet for over 6 months.  I believe the Babylonian excile is the second most important event in Jewish history, second only to the exodus.  And I have wondered if Judaism could have survived without the Persian kings of the Persian empire.
> ...


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The Babylonian excile has led me to an extensive study of Jewish/Zoroastrian relations throughout history.  Little has been written on this subject but there is a wealth of information available on Zoroastrian history, scripture, teachings & obsevances as a starting point.  In part I did my study with an orthodox Parsi via the internet for over 6 months.  I believe the Babylonian excile is the second most important event in Jewish history, second only to the exodus.  *And I have wondered if Judaism could have survived without the Persian kings of the Persian empire*.



The Tanakh holds the answer in praising Cyrus as a Messiah, the only non-Jew accorded Messianic stature, for having liberated the Jews from exile in Babylonia and permitting the reconstitution of the Jewish community in Judah, which was the southern part of the Davidic Kingdom.  Many of the exiled Jews became complacent with their rather good lives in Babylonia and had the exile not ended under the Persians, they might well have become assimmilated into pagan Babylonian society which would have impacted on the continuation of the Jewish community


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

Yes, that is how I too see it.  I find it interesting how whenever a thread requires some actual thinking, Israel's enemies just suddenly disappear.  Nice to meet you here. 





JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > The Babylonian excile has led me to an extensive study of Jewish/Zoroastrian relations throughout history.  Little has been written on this subject but there is a wealth of information available on Zoroastrian history, scripture, teachings & obsevances as a starting point.  In part I did my study with an orthodox Parsi via the internet for over 6 months.  I believe the Babylonian excile is the second most important event in Jewish history, second only to the exodus.  *And I have wondered if Judaism could have survived without the Persian kings of the Persian empire*.
> ...


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I doubt that Vespasian was any friend of the Jews, although certainly not their worst enemy.  It was he, the Roman general, who Emperor Nero appointed to crush the Jewish rebellion at Masada.



Jewish tradition holds an interesting anecdote, that Rabbi ben Zakkai, fearing the destruction of the Temple and the dispersion of the Jewish community as he was hold up in Jerusalem during the first Roman war, orchestrated the faking of his death to enable his departure from Jerusalem.

Rabbi ben Zakkai's plan was to meet with Vespasian who at the time was the General of the Roman military under Nero.  Rabbi ben Zakkai was successful in meeting with Vespasian who was intrigued with his cleverness in arranging for the meeting.  Rabbi ben Zakkai informed Vespasian that he had a vision of Vespasian being elevated to Emperor.  The Rabbi struck a deal with Vespasian that if he did indeed become Emperor that Vespasian would permit the construction of the Yeshiva in Yabne, Israel.

Nero committed suicide and Vespasian did become Emperor.  Vespasian, in gratitude, granted Rabbi ben Zakkai permission to construct the Yeshiva academy.

Now, Rabbi ben Zakkai didn't really have a vision of Vespasian's promotion to Emperor.  He was, however, very smart and foresaw Nero's downfall, combined with Vespasian's military successes, leading to Vespasian's becoming Emperor


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes, that is how I too see it.  I find it interesting how whenever a thread requires some actual thinking, Israel's enemies just suddenly disappear.  Nice to meet you here.



Historian Bernard Lewis 


> It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history.  They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places.  It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others.  Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.
> 
> All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books.  For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

Not easy for Israel's enemies to accept the fact that throughout all of history, empires rose & empires fell --- while Israel still remains.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Not easy for Israel's enemies to accept the fact that throughout all of history, empires rose & empires fell --- while Israel still remains.





Genesis 12 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed


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## ima (Mar 28, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> ima said:
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A valiant effort perhaps, but it's not going to work.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

ima said:


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muslimes are a peaceful people  

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases hundreds of thousands of Kurds
300 US Marines killed in Beirut

Winston Churchill...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...


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## Dante (Mar 28, 2012)

JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Not easy for Israel's enemies to accept the fact that throughout all of history, empires rose & empires fell --- while Israel still remains.
> ...



I love my Jews


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

Lots to admire about the Jews.  So small in numbers & yet so large in contributions to the entire world.  And oh, how I love those Jewish delis.


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes, that is how I too see it.  I find it interesting how whenever a thread requires some actual thinking, Israel's enemies just suddenly disappear.  Nice to meet you here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just because someone is against genocide doesn't make them an enemy of Israel but what do you want to know?


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 28, 2012)

JStone said:


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you mean America? Israel would be nothing without America.


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 28, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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Bullshit! Iran has never attacked Israel and has even had meeting with Israeli Jewish leaders to talk about peace.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

Will you be so kind as to enlighten me to whatever genocide you are referring to?  According to most recent census figures, in 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just under 6 million of them left.  No question about it.  Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.





Truthseeker420 said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, that is how I too see it.  I find it interesting how whenever a thread requires some actual thinking, Israel's enemies just suddenly disappear.  Nice to meet you here.
> ...


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 28, 2012)

JStone said:


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Yeah because the goverment has never lied to us.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 28, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Will you be so kind as to enlighten me to whatever genocide you are referring to?  According to most recent census figures, in 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just under 6 million of them left.  No question about it.  Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They are in the begining. How long did it take to destroy Native Americans and their culture?


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 28, 2012)

JStone said:


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okay gaystone !


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


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*Bullshit Seeker*


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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 28, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tZodkQulVI]Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO)[/ame]


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

Bullshit Seeker420


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 28, 2012)

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Iran has been attacking Israel through its Arab proxies, Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad for more than thirty years.


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## JStone (Mar 28, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Will you be so kind as to enlighten me to whatever genocide you are referring to?  According to most recent census figures, in 1948 there were approximately 1.2 million Palestinians living in Israel.  And now there are only just under 6 million of them left.  No question about it.  Jordan is the smartest player in all of the Middle East.
> ...



"Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media.-Noam Chomsky"

Fucktard420, presumably, you're too mentally ill to know that Chomsky is a linguistics teacher, not an authority on geopolitics nor media.  

Now, you know, fucktard420


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## ima (Mar 28, 2012)

ima said:


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Btw, how does Iran attacking through proxies even come close to what i was talking about?


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 28, 2012)

ima said:


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Attacking through proxies is the most Iran has been capable of doing.  As long as it is prevented from acquiring nukes, it will remain the worst it can do.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 28, 2012)

After Israel takes good care of Iran I look forward to a day when Zubin Mehta will visit Iran with the Israeli Philharmonic orchestra to play host to his Parsi's in the land of their heritage that was conquered & stolen by the Muslims.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 29, 2012)

Eh, Ima.  Got news for you.  No one knows what you are talking about.





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## Truthseeker420 (Mar 29, 2012)

JStone said:


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Proffessor of Linguistics & Philosophy. But one does not have to be a proffesser to be an authority on any subject.


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## JStone (Mar 29, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


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You misspelled professor, dunce.  You're dismissed to the dunce corner.  

Bullshit Seeker420




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Mar 29, 2012)

Glad you bring up native Americans.  What a remarkable contrast to Palestinians.  Native Americans strap on tool boxes & build casinos to help their people.  Pastinians stap on bomb straps to themselves up along with their own children while killing all others they can with them.





Truthseeker420 said:


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 29, 2012)

Truthseeker420 said:


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So you say that the government is capable of lying however the propoganda sites from which you gather your information are incapable of lying ? 
A bit hypo-critic of you ... 

How do you know for sure that what you think is right , and what the government says is wrong ?


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## ima (Mar 30, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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The government never tells the truth, I think wikileaks showed that.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

So, what we need here in the USA to provide us the truth is Al Jazeera, right Ima?




ima said:


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## JStone (Mar 30, 2012)

ima said:


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The truth about fornication with animals according to ayatollah khomeini and the religion of bestiality 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5Xpdu4ELE]Sex with Animals in Islam - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

I don't understand Ima.  He or she is against Israel keeping the Palestinians "prisoners" & yet never has he or she suggested Israel find some incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.


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## ima (Mar 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> So, what we need here in the USA to provide us the truth is Al Jazeera, right Ima?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not expecting the truth, it's that simple. When it comes to "National Security", the media keeps quiet, and since everything and anything is NS these days, when it comes to that shit in the media, the only thing that you can be sure of is that what they're telling you about how it's going down isn't actually what's happening. Now THAT'S the truth! lol.


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## ima (Mar 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I don't understand Ima.  He or she is against Israel keeping the Palestinians "prisoners" & yet never has he or she suggested Israel find some incentive to offer the Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.



I'd suggest that Israel be relocated to Canada or Australia, both countries have plenty of land to spare. The arabs are never going to give up. Let's cut our losses and get out of there. Another alternative would be to maybe trade Israel's land for some in Jordan, they don't look like they're using up too much of that country. But if that still pisses off the arabs, i say get the fuck out of the region completely. In the long run, it'll have been proven the cheaper and easier road to peace. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time before the arabs get their military shiite together and move you themselves. Anyways, most of the Israelis were immigrants themselves, so why don't THEY go back to their indigenous countries?


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## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Will you work with with me to help find a way to free the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinian prisoners back to their indigenous homelands?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > So, what we need here in the USA to provide us the truth is Al Jazeera, right Ima?
> ...


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## ima (Mar 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Will you work with with me to help find a way to free the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinian prisoners back to their indigenous homelands?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you help me get all those Israeli immigrants to go back to where they came from as well.


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## JStone (Mar 30, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Will you work with with me to help find a way to free the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinian prisoners back to their indigenous homelands?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> ...



IMA DUNCE





Most Israeli Jews are indigenous to Israel and the Near East region.

Jews lived in ancient Israel, Egypt, Syria and Iraq thousands of years before there were even any Rabs.

The Septuagint Greek version of the Hebrew Bible that Jesus and the Gospels read from was translated in Alexandria in the 3rd century BCE.

Your history lesson for the day


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## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Hmmm!  Just one problem.  Israel was re-established as a Jewish State by a legal & ethical vote of the member nations of the UN in 1947.  Who established Palestine as a Muslim Palestinian State & when?  Even the British mandate formalized Palestine as the home of the Jewish people.




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Will you work with with me to help find a way to free the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinian prisoners back to their indigenous homelands?  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!
> ...


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## JStone (Mar 30, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by ima
> 
> If you help me get all those Israeli immigrants to go back to where they came from as well.



*IMA DUNCE*







*United States President John F. Kennedy, Author, "A Nation of Immigrants"*
"Every American who ever lived, with the exception of one group, was either an immigrant himself or a descendant of immigrants&#8221; 


> Immigration policy should be generous.  With such a policy, we can turn to the world, and to our own past, with clean hands and a clear conscience
> 
> The contribution of immigrants can be seen in every aspect of our national life.  We see it in religion, in politics, in business, in the arts, in education, even in athletics and in entertainment.  There is no part of our nation that has not been touched by our immigrant backround
> 
> ...


 
1815: The first great wave of immigration to US begins, bringing 5 million immigrants between 1815 and 1860

1820: The U.S. population is about 9.6 million. About 151,000 new immigrants arrive in 1820 alone

1825: Great Britain decrees that England is overpopulated and repeals laws prohibiting emigration. The first group of Norwegian immigrants arrive.

1846: Crop failures in Europe. Mortgage foreclosures send tens of thousands of the dispossessed to United States.

1846: Irish of all classes emigrate to the United States as a result of the potato famine.

1848: German political refugees emigrate following the failure of a revolution.

1862: The Homestead Act encourages naturalization by granting citizens title to 160 acres.

1880: The U.S. population is 50,155,783. More than 5.2 million immigrants enter the country between 1880 and 1890.

1890: New York is home to as many Germans as Hamburg, Germany.

1894: To escape Moslem massacres, Armenian Christians emigrate.

1900: The U.S. population is 75,994,575. More than 3,687,000 immigrants were admitted in the previous ten years. Ellis Island receiving station reopens with brick and ironwork structures. 

1906: Bureau of Immigration is established

1910: The Mexican Revolution sends thousands to the United States seeking employment.

1940: The Alien Registration Act calls for registration and fingerprinting of all aliens. Approximately 5 million aliens register.

1946: The War Brides Act facilitates the immigration of foreign-born wives, fiances, husbands, and children of U.S. Armed Forces personnel.

1952: The Immigration and Naturalization Act brings into one comprehensive statute the multiple laws that govern immigration and naturalization to date.

1954: Ellis Island closes, marking an end to mass immigration

Ellis Island Immigrants


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## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Eh, Ima.  You okay, you still here?  Still waiting to hear back from you.  Let the truth be known to all.




MJB12741 said:


> Hmmm!  Just one problem.  Israel was re-established as a Jewish State by a legal & ethical vote of the member nations of the UN in 1947.  Who established Palestine as a Muslim Palestinian State & when?  Even the British mandate formalized Palestine as the home of the Jewish people.
> 
> 
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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 30, 2012)

ima said:


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I'm not arguing that the government is telling the truth.I'm arguing that all sources of information are potentially false even those that you use. (In fact i have yet to see even one source for your information ...) 
I also argue that you have no way to know which sources are false and which are true. 
Thus you display hypocritical behavior when you say: I don't believe the government but I believe propaganda sites.
Basically you choose the 'truth' that suites your predisposed opinion and discard anything that doesn't fit your views as lies.
(This is also true for the ironically named "TruthSeeker".)


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## Jos (Mar 30, 2012)

> Beware of false quotes in the internets
> Abraham Lincoln


http://tinyurl.com/d42p36l


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## Jos (Mar 30, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
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No worry the only way to make a change in Israeli behavior is to bring them to war


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 30, 2012)

Jos said:


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Yeah, that's done great things for the Arabs in the past.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Sounds like a winner to me.  No more of Israel's failed Zionist agenda of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to Palestinians so they can continue to kill more Israelis for a thank you.  King Hussein proved it's all just a matter of effectively communicating with Palestinians in the only language they understand & respect.  When will Israel ever learn?




Jos said:


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## docmauser1 (Mar 30, 2012)

Jos said:


> _No worry the only way to make a change in Israeli behavior is to bring them to war_


But only after a palistanian nature reserve is evacuated-relocated to the quiet of arab lands - we don't want them to be all shot up in a crossfire, do we?


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## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Arafat & now Hamas sure gets their Palestinians caught up in crossfires.  Oh well, at they're all  having fun.




docmauser1 said:


> Jos said:
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> ...


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## ima (Mar 30, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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But you have to figure that they might get their shit together one day, and that could be pretty scary. Just saying.


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 30, 2012)

ima said:


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For getting their shit together they have to shift their priories and compromise.
The factor that would contribute the most for placing their collective shit in one place is forsaking Islam and move forward into the 21th century. 
This would make the reasonable people , and it's not scary at all , just saying.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 30, 2012)

Empires rose & empires fell, yet Israel still remains.  For over 4000 years, Israel's enemies have claimed "Israel is doomed."  And in another 4000 years from now, Israel's enemies will still be claiming "Israel is doomed."


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 30, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Empires rose & empires fell, yet Israel still remains.  For over 4000 years, Israel's enemies have claimed "Israel is doomed."  And in another 4000 years from now, Israel's enemies will still be claiming "Israel is doomed."


I don't know if  in another 4000 human kind will not nuke itself into oblivion , let alone if there would be Israel or enemies of Israel.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 30, 2012)

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1948, 1956, 1967, 1973 and then no wars for thirty years.  Clearly the Arabs have gotten their shit together sufficiently to realize that attacking Israel does not serve their best interests.  If you ever get your shit together, you'll realize this, too, even if you continue to have wet dreams about dead Jews.


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## ima (Mar 31, 2012)

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It really gets to you that there are people who don't agree with what Israel does 100% of the time. You should realize this and relax, I'm totally chill and don't even consider myself on one side or the other, I'm certainly no fan of ragheads, that's for sure, lol. But eventually, I'm figuring they're going to get it together. Anyways, that's what US Christian crazies are hoping for. Otherwise Jesus won't come back. Now doesn't that give you a nice warm and fuzzy?


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## Wolverine1984 (Mar 31, 2012)

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Religious people are crazy , nothing new there .


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## JStone (Mar 31, 2012)

ima said:


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IMA DUNCE






*Arab-American Dr. Wafa Sultan, Human Rights Activist, Among "Time Magazine's 100 Heroes and Pioneers Whose Power, Talent Or Moral Example Is Transforming Our World"*

Wafa Sultan - The 2006 TIME 100 - TIME.

*Israel - The One And The Only Free Democratic Country In The Entire Middle East.*


> I believe that any nation that grants equal opportunity to every citizen, regardless of race, religion, political affiliation, or gender, thereby, establishes its moral legitimacy.  According to this principle, Israel stands alone in the Middle East region, as a nation with moral legitimacy: it grants all citizens equal rights for men and women alike, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech and of the press. Not a single Arab or Muslim country in the surrounding region does the same. Nor do any of those Arab and Muslim nations allow their citizens personal freedom, or the right to maintain and express opposing points of view.
> 
> These essential qualities of life provide oxygen for the human soul; they are the kind of basic nourishment that is desperately missing in all of Israel's Muslim neighbors. Yet, the so-called humanitarian aid organizations at the United Nations direct all their energy to act against anything and everything Israel does. Let me ask: as every human being deserves to live in dignity, why has an enormous unbalanced portion of global aid gone mostly to Palestinians, while millions of underprivileged people all over the world suffer genuine, life-threatening deprivation?  Here is why: The United Nations time and again focuses its power on the perpetual manufacturing of false anti-Israel accusations. Painting Palestinians as perennial underdogs provides the perfect cover for their subversive effort. Without doubt, this trend encourages hatred and violence against the Jewish people in Israel and everywhere else. And that is exactly its point.
> 
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Mar 31, 2012)

When the Arabs aren't attacking Israel, they just kill each other.  Long live the Arab Spring.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 31, 2012)

ima said:


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So the message you want to convey is that you are not just an anti semite but an equal opportunity hater and bigot and that you consider people with whom you disagree "crazies", and that you are so "chill" with that it makes you laugh just to talk about it.  It is interesting that while you express contempt for Christians who believe in the apocalypse and second coming, you, like them, are only able to conceive of the animosities the Arabs/Muslims hold towards Israel being finally resolved in an apocalypse; the main difference between your visions and their's seems to be that they have hope for a better future after the horror of war and you are only capable of contemplating the horror.  It must be painful to be you.

What is interesting about your posts is not the biases you express but the question: since you have not been sufficiently interested in the issues or history of the region or its conflicts to have learned about them why do you spend so much time posting such strongly held biases in this forum?  The answer can be found in the content of your posts.  You clearly are unable to consider Israeli actions on other than horrifying terms, killing, ethnic cleansing, etc., and you are unable to consider that the Arabs/Muslim will find a way of dealing with Israel in other than horrifying terms.  Since it is clear you have no intellectual interest in the issues or history discussed here, it seems clear that you come here to use Israelis and Arabs/Muslims in your fantasies as proxies for your visions of anger and violence you cannot safely express in your real life.


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## MJB12741 (Mar 31, 2012)

Ima wants the Palestinians to go free. And so do I.  The question is where can they go?  No Arab surrounding country wants them back & they hate Israel.  I wonder if Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State.


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## toomuchtime_ (Mar 31, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Ima wants the Palestinians to go free. And so do I.  The question is where can they go?  No Arab surrounding country wants them back & they hate Israel.  I wonder if Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State.



The Palestinian Arabs are free.  They have their own government, such as it is, the PA, their own land, Areas A and B in the West Bank and Gaza.  There is nothing preventing these Arabs from enjoying all the benefits of a prosperous democracy other than their continuing opposition to the existence of the Jewish state of Israel and their apparent incompetence when it comes to governing themselves. The only Palestinian Arabs who are not entirely free are those, about 50,000, who live in Area C, and that can be quickly remedied by Israel annexing Area C and granting them full Israeli citizenship.


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## ima (Apr 1, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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If I'm amusing myself, it's only because the pro-Israel side at this site is just so full of shit that it's not easy to take you guys seriously. Like you think that the arabs are ever going to agree to peace when they've said over and over that there's a serious bunch of them who will never stop trying to recoup the losses of battles past. And you all are trying your hardest to ignore that fact, and I just find it interesting to hear all of your reasons why Israel is right on all counts. And a little bit funny at time because you're arguments and what you seem to believe are just so absurd that it can make me laugh. And what can I say about JStone? He's an embarrassment to Jews everywhere.
And everyone is interested in this conflict, it's the key to world peace. The reason behind 9/11 and now responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in Afghanistan and Irak. And maybe Iran soon as well.
And Christians who back Israel because they need Israel to get nuked so that Jesus can come back are total morons, you don't agree? But according to you, because Jesus is coming back, at least they're looking towards a better future and I'm not? You're an idiot.


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## ima (Apr 1, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Ima wants the Palestinians to go free. And so do I.  The question is where can they go?  No Arab surrounding country wants them back & they hate Israel.  I wonder if Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State.
> ...



Did you know that for the arabs to go anywhere, that they have to spend most of the day going through Israeli checkpoints. And they have this thing, it's called simply The Wall, and it's not made by Pink Floyd. And on the sea side, they don't let boats through, it's called a naval blockade.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 1, 2012)

ima said:


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All of these things are in response to acts of Arab terrorism, and despite the checkpoints and security barrier and the hundreds of millions of dollars the US has spent training, arming and maintaining PA security forces, every day the Shin Bet and IDF stop several terrorists on their way to commit racist hate crimes against Jewish civilians, or as you like to call it, getting their shit together, and every day the Gaza terrorists smuggle in more weapons with which to try to bomb Israeli civilians.  

Before the second intifada there were no checkpoints or security barrier separating the West Bank from Israel and Palestinian Arabs and Israelis moved freely across the green line, and large numbers of Palestinian Arabs worked and lived in Israel.  If the Arabs ever decide they want to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel, then all these very expensive security measures will no longer be necessary.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 1, 2012)

How does Ima come up with such statements like we believe Israel is right on all counts.  I sure as hell don't believe that.  In fact I believe Israel is mostly responsible for this endless ongoing conflict.  And Israel deserves what they receive from the Palestinians.

No surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever made peace offerings to Palestinians, built a security fence & conceded land to Palestinians so they can remain in their countries.  And then Israel just can't seem to understand why they are rewarded with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Don't that beat all?   SHAME ON ISRAEL.  





ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
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> > ima said:
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## Hossfly (Apr 1, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> How does Ima come up with such statements like we believe Israel is right on all counts.  I sure as hell don't believe that.  In fact I believe Israel is mostly responsible for this endless ongoing conflict.  And Israel deserves what they receive from the Palestinians.
> 
> No surrounding Arab country, who know the Palestinians best, ever made peace offerings to Palestinians, built a security fence & conceded land to Palestinians so they can remain in their countries.  And then Israel just can't seem to understand why they are rewarded with jihad's, intifadas & rocket missiles.  Don't that beat all?   SHAME ON ISRAEL.
> 
> ...


The word of the day is: 'devious.'


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## MJB12741 (Apr 1, 2012)

If there is ever to be a lasting peace, Israel's entire Zionist agenda first has to go.  No more damn peace offerings, security fences & land concessions to provoke the Palestinians.  If Israel wants peace, those Zionists must learn to treat the Palestinians with the same Arab love, justice & respect the Palestinians are so well accustomed to & so well deserve.  LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 1, 2012)

ima said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > So the message you want to convey is that you are not just an anti semite but an equal opportunity hater and bigot and that you consider people with whom you disagree "crazies", and that you are so "chill" with that it makes you laugh just to talk about it.  It is interesting that while you express contempt for Christians who believe in the apocalypse and second coming, you, like them, are only able to conceive of the animosities the Arabs/Muslims hold towards Israel being finally resolved in an apocalypse; the main difference between your visions and their's seems to be that they have hope for a better future after the horror of war and you are only capable of contemplating the horror.  It must be painful to be you.
> ...



Once again, you have nothing to offer but slogans you don't understand about subjects of which you are profoundly ignorant.  There's a huge amount of information on the internet.  If you were truly interested in the issues or the history of the region, you would be trying to learn something about them instead of just mindlessly parroting slogans you think you're supposed to believe in


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## MJB12741 (Apr 1, 2012)

With people like Ima, no matter what Israel does or does not do, Israel is to blame.


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## Hossfly (Apr 1, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> With people like Ima, no matter what Israel does or does not do, Israel is to blame.


Blame it all on Bush.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 1, 2012)

Won't this look pretty flying all over Tehran?

Israeli Flag, Israel Flag image


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## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

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Doesn't matter what's it's in response to, you said the Pallies were "free". Like to take that back?


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## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

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> ima said:
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What slogans?
You're only response to me is to call me ignorant if I don't agree with you. Name calling? Ya, you're a serious debater. Now go stand over next to JStone.

I've actually learned something at this board already: people (not me, I think both sides have faults and am not arab or jewish, so I don't have strong feelings either way, I'm not in the line of fire, so to speak) are so entrenched on each side of the debate that I seriously doubt that any real peace will ever be possible along the lines that are being negotiated.


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## editec (Apr 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit. Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.


 
Okay...then what's the plan?


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## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> With people like Ima, no matter what Israel does or does not do, Israel is to blame.



I think that the state of Israel was established in totally the wrong place of the world. If you would have sat down pre-1948 and tried to come up with the absolute worst place in the world to start a Jewish state, I think only Mecca would have been a worse spot.

That said, I think that since Israel is quite small, the arabs could say: ya, ok, whatever. And move on. Like, there's not even any oil there! (or maybe there is? Have they drilled ever?).

And that said, if there's a huge number of arabs who seem to want their land back, and seem to think that it's their land to get back (again, an observation, not necessarily my personal opinion), then Israel has a decision to make, stay or go. They've chosen to stay, which i think is a bad move. Again, just an observation that Israel would be better off in a part of Canada or Australia, 2 countries with room to spare for example, before the arabs REALLY get their shit together. And on that point, I'd say that it's only a matter of time before armageddon comes to the middle east and all the Christian nutjobs will be happy.
Or else dissolve Israel and make a wider country that encompasses the whole region where all races and religions are equal. Like a Canada for example.


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## Hossfly (Apr 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Won't this look pretty flying all over Tehran?
> 
> Israeli Flag, Israel Flag image


Don't forget this accessory!

http://www.flagpolewarehouse.com/flagsforlessonline/messageflags/321986.gif


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## MJB12741 (Apr 2, 2012)

I agree with Ima.  What right does Israel have to keep the Palestinians captives in a foreign land with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions?  Face it folks, not even once has Netanyahu even tried to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on Israel for not finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return.




ima said:


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## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I agree with Ima.  What right does Israel have to keep the Palestinians captives in a foreign land with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions?  Face it folks, not even once has Netanyahu even tried to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on Israel for not finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where do you think all the Pallies were born? In Jordan? Lebanon? Syria?... You want them to go home? Like to where they were born?


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## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

*Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939*


> So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country [Israel] and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
> Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan


 
*Tashbih Sayyed, Muslim Pakistani Scholar, Journalist, Author and Former Editor in Chief of  Our Times, Pakistan Today, and The Muslim World Today*


> Blinded by their anti-Semitism, Arabs ignore the fact that neither are they an indigenous group nor is the Jewish nationhood a new phenomenon in Palestine; the Jewish nation was born during 40 years of wandering in the Sinai more than five thousand years ago and has remained connected with Palestine ever since. &#8220;Even after the destruction of the last Jewish commonwealth in the first century, the Jewish people maintained their own autonomous political and legal institutions: the Davidic dynasty was preserved in Baghdad until the thirteenth century through the rule of the Exilarch (Resh Galuta), while the return to Zion was incorporated into the most widely practiced Jewish traditions, including the end of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder, as well as in everyday prayers. Thus, Jewish historic rights were kept alive in Jewish historical consciousness.
> 
> It is a matter of record that the Arabs owe their presence in Palestine to the Ottomans who settled Muslim populations as a buffer against Bedouin attacks and Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian ruler who brought Egyptian colonists with his army in the 1830s. And during all those times when Arabs lived under the Ottoman rule, they never showed any desire for national independence.
> 
> ...


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 2, 2012)

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They are free to go about their lives as law abiding people, but they are not free to engage in criminal activities.  In any American city if there is rioting and criminal activity on a sufficient scale, the police will declare an emergency, effectively blockade the area, set up checkpoints, stop people on the street and demand identification, etc.  This is exactly what happened in many cities in the 1960's when riots broke out.  

The steps Israel has taken to protect its citizens from Palestinian Arab hate crimes is proportionate to threat.  No country would do any less and most would take much harsher measures.


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## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

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Freedom in Hamastan allahu akbar 


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVWk8qjsU8]Hamas Imposing Sharia Law In Gaza - YouTube[/ame]

*Hamastan Bans Display Of Lingerie *


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## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

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So you're comparing Gaza or WB to an American city, so in other words, the Israelis are patrolling their own territory (Gaza or WB). So the Pallies are free under Israeli control? And of course free to behave like the Israelis want them to. You have a strange sense of freedom, what country do you live in?


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## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

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Gaza and Judea and Samaria have been Jewish land dating back 3000 years.

Arabs are to Israel what illegal Mexicans are to America


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 2, 2012)

ima said:


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The Palestinian Arabs are not free to commit racist hate crimes against Israeli civilians, just as they would not be free to commit such crimes in any US cities.  What planet do you live on to think that if you are not free to commit racist hate crimes you are not free at all?


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## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

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Racist hate crimes? In Gaza? Who against who?


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## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

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IMA DUNCE 








> My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but allah, we will chase you everywhere  We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no better blood than the blood of the Jews.  We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children's thirst with your blood, we will not rest until you leave the Muslim countries.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rleFpY402vM]Palestinian - Terrorism - YouTube[/ame]


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 2, 2012)

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Even for you, that is a stupid question.  Firing rockets at Jewish communities in the Negev while avoiding damage to Arab communities in the Negev constitutes a racist hate crime.  Before the Gaza security barrier was up and carefully patrolled, there were frequent terror attacks from Gaza into Israel.

How can you have such strong opinions about issues about which your ignorance is so vast and profound?


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## ima (Apr 2, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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It's because you compared gaza to an American city, which is false. You should have compared it more to two countries at war. Anyways, If the Israelis are in control, how come they're letting so many rockets be fired? If it was a US city, the cops wouldn't let anyone fire anything anytime anywhere. So what's the deal?


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## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

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gaza is just another arab muslime shithole, like every other arab muslime shithole.


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## pbel (Apr 2, 2012)

JStone said:


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Incredible. Where Christianity used the myth of blood libels to dehumanize the Jews, now a supporter of Israel uses the very libels against Islam and its 1.4 billion followers....

Someday they will get it together, 1.4 billion vs. 6 million. History has shown that Demograhics trump military power.


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## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

pbel said:


> JStone said:
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There are more than 1.4 billion insects in the world and insects are useful, unlike muslimes.

The Jews humiliated multiple muslime armies in '48 and '67---Try opening a book or don't they have books in trailer parks?


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## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

> Someday they will get it together, 1.4 billion vs. 6 million. History has shown that Demograhics trump military power.



The islime insects are dooooooomed.  

The Economist Magazine: Arab World Self-Doomed To Failure


> WHAT went wrong with the Arab world? Why is it so stuck behind the times? It is not an obviously unlucky region. Fatly endowed with oil, and with its people sharing a rich cultural, religious and linguistic heritage, it is faced neither with endemic poverty nor with ethnic conflict. But, with barely an exception, its autocratic rulers, whether presidents or kings, give up their authority only when they die; its elections are a sick joke; half its people are treated as lesser legal and economic beings, and more than half its young, burdened by joblessness and stifled by conservative religious tradition, are said to want to get out of the place as soon as they can.
> 
> One in five Arabs still live on less than $2 a day. And, over the past 20 years, growth in income per head, at an annual rate of 0.5%, was lower than anywhere else in the world except sub-Saharan Africa. At this rate, it will take the average Arab 140 years to double his income, a target that some regions are set to reach in less than ten years. Stagnant growth, together with a fast-rising population, means vanishing jobs. Around 12m people, or 15% of the labour force, are already unemployed, and on present trends the number could rise to 25m by 2010.
> 
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Apr 2, 2012)

Regardless of wherever Palis were born, don't you want them to be free of Israel's bondage?  The problem is where can they go?  No surrounding Arab country will grant them a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Do you think maybe Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with Ima.  What right does Israel have to keep the Palestinians captives in a foreign land with peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions?  Face it folks, not even once has Netanyahu even tried to free the Palestinians back to their indigenous homelands.  Shame on Israel for not finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return.
> ...


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## JStone (Apr 2, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Regardless of wherever Palis were born, don't you want them to be free of Israel's bondage?  The problem is where can they go?  No surrounding Arab country will grant them a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Do you think maybe Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Most fakestinians were born in Arab countries and invaded Israel to glom off of Jewish success.

Three common fakestinian surnames are al-Masri [the Egyptian], al-Iraqi, and Maghrebi [Maghreb, Africa], signifyi8ng their origins

You'll never meet anyone named al-Palestini.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 2, 2012)

Can you image the daily suffering of Israel's enemies here in the USA with all those Zionists out there?  Pour souls.  They need to learn to look at the bright side.  Long after they are dead & gone, Israel will still be thriving --- and they won't have to suffer over it anymore.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 3, 2012)

pbel said:


> _History has shown that Demograhics trump military power._


Dubious drivel.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

pbel said:


> Incredible. Where Christianity used the myth of blood libels to dehumanize the Jews, now a supporter of Israel uses the very libels against Islam and its 1.4 billion followers....
> 
> Someday they will get it together, 1.4 billion vs. 6 million. History has shown that Demograhics trump military power.



I'm sorry , I just don't know how you count... 
Are you one of those 1.4 billion ? Are you going to join the fight when the day comes , fly over the the middle east ? 

Are they going to ship Muslims from the USA to join the fight ? from France ? or the UK ?


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## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Regardless of wherever Palis were born, don't you want them to be free of Israel's bondage?  The problem is where can they go?  No surrounding Arab country will grant them a right of return back to their indigenous homelands.  Do you think maybe Mecca would be a nice place for a Palestinian State?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd prefer that the Jews be released from their religious bondage and realize that the arabs are never going to give up, and 1.5 billion muslims against 6 million Jews isn't looking good for the long run.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

> I'd prefer that the Jews be released from their religious bondage and  realize that the arabs are never going to give up, and 1.5 billion  muslims against 6 million Jews isn't looking good for the long run.



What religious bondage you might refer to ? 

I wonder why you think that Palestinians are a general Muslim problem in a whole ... 
(It would seem that Muslims are also brainwashed to this assumption).


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## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> > I'd prefer that the Jews be released from their religious bondage and  realize that the arabs are never going to give up, and 1.5 billion  muslims against 6 million Jews isn't looking good for the long run.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jews will always be handicapped by their religion which tells them that they are god's chosen people and that god gave the land to Jews in Palestine. Which is of course total bullshit, but forces them to hang onto land that will in all likelyhood lead to their ultimate destruction.

it's a muslim problem because all muslims hate Jews (and everyone else who isn't a raghead, but especially jews)


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > > I'd prefer that the Jews be released from their religious bondage and  realize that the arabs are never going to give up, and 1.5 billion  muslims against 6 million Jews isn't looking good for the long run.
> ...



You just showed that you know absolutely nothing about Israel or the Jewish religion.

Zionism is mostly a *secular *movement.

The Jewish religion says that *only the Messiah* can return the Jews to the 'promised land', meaning they should not return until the Messiah comes.

Israel and the Jews who live within it do not hold the land because 'god' gave it to them... Again , you have shown total ignorance in this subject.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

Jews: Population 14 million [0.2% of world population]
Muslims: Population 1.6 BILLION [23% of world population]

186 Jews have been awarded the Nobel Prize for significant contributions in science, economics and literature accounting for 22% of all individual recipients worldwide between 1901 and 2011

Muslim Nobel Prize winners in science, economics and literature are only 4 in total   And 1 in physics was given to Abdus Salam who belongs to Ahmadiyya sect which is not considered to be Muslim by Muslims.

We have just insulted Islam by laughing at the Allah guaranteed superiority over the infidel.  Wait, are you hearing Allahu Akbar?  
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl76nw92AJc]Jews and Muslims-Nobel Prize List (Latest) - YouTube[/ame]


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## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
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What you say makes no sense, if Jews think that only the Messiah can return them to the promised land (promised by whom? Not their god?), then they won't mind leaving until the Messiah comes back. And what are they doing there in the first place if that's the case?


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

*United States Founding Father President John Adams*...


> I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize men than any other nation. If I were an atheist, and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations. If I were an atheist of the other sect, who believe, or pretend to believe that all is ordered by chance, I should believe that chance had ordered the Jews to preserve and propagate to all mankind the doctrine of a supreme, intelligent, wise, almighty sovereign of the universe, which I believe to be the great essential principle of all morality, and consequently of all civilization.
> Amazon.com: Roots Of American Order (9781882926992): Russell Kirk, Forrest McDonald: Books



*Winston Churchill*...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

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Dude,are you serious ? 
Jews don't have some kind of hive mind that obligates every one of them to think in the same way.

As I told you before ,Zionism is a *secular *movement , secular meaning non-religious.
You still demonstrate your ignorance by thinking that all Jews are religious. 
Many Religious Jews think that they should wait for the Messiah in order to come to Israel and thus they don't live in Israel.



> then they won't mind leaving until the Messiah comes back


Why would they leave ? There is no other Jewish countries.
on the other hand there are more then 20 Arab countries.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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If the Zionists are secular, why are they using religion to justify their theft?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enTbBx622-8]85 sleepless Gaza Jerusalem.divx - YouTube[/ame]


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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You have an actual argument or you just like to post vague 40 minute videos ?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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Yes.

If the Zionists are secular, why are they using religion to justify their theft?


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Fakestinians admit to stealing Jewish land in Israel when they invaded from Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt] 


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza.Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


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## Hossfly (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Check out the definition of 'religion' and modify your uneducated question.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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You act as though I know what you are talking about ...
Care to elaborate on that ? (Not with videos however)


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

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No.


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## Ropey (Apr 3, 2012)

Zionism is complete. 



> Born in Budapest, Hungary, on May 2, 1860, Herzl was educated in the spirit of the German-Jewish "Enlightenment." The family moved to Vienna in 1878 after the death of his sister. He received a doctorate in law in 1884 and worked for a short while in courts in Vienna and Salzburg, but he soon left law and devoted himself to writing.
> 
> In 1891 he became Paris correspondent for the influential liberal newspaper New Free Press of Vienna time. Herzl was in Paris when a wave of anti-Semitism broke out over the court martial of Alfred Dreyfus, a Jewish army officer. Dreyfus, falsely accused of espionage and banished to an island prison, was divested of his rank in a humiliating public ceremony in January 1895, as a mob shouted "Death to the Jews. Herzl became convinced that the only solution to the Jewish problem was the mass exodus of Jews from their places of residence.
> 
> ...



The Jewish State - Theodore Herzl 1896- The ideological foundations of Zionism - Complete Dowloadable e-book

http://www.mideastweb.org/jewishstate.pdf

A done deal....

Samson awaits...


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Got it , thank you for playing though.
Good luck next time.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 3, 2012)

Can they possibley get any dumber than Ima?  Christians claim Jews are God's chosen people, not Jews.  And how can this be when we consider what God gave the Jews for neighbors in Israel?





Wolverine1984 said:


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

Ropey said:


> Zionism is complete.
> 
> 
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So that is their justification for armed robbery.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
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Arab armed robbery of Jewish land when Arabs invaded Israel from Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]  


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza.Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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There you go using words you don't understand again.


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## Ropey (Apr 3, 2012)

jstone said:


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+1


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

JStone said:


> Arab armed robbery of Jewish land when Arabs invaded Israel from Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
> 
> Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]
> 
> ...



Good one


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## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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A jew is someone who follows Judaism, which is a religion.
Zionism is secular, agreed, but a jew isn't necessarily a zionist, which is about supporting Israel.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 3, 2012)

There is a young, well educated pro democracy movement in Iran.  Their goal is to oust the dictator, the mullahs & the ayatolahs & bring back the pride that was Persia under Zoroastrian rule.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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Allah is a zionist.  Allah is most wise 



> Quran 17:104 And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)  on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

Ropey said:


> jstone said:
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The state of Palestine was created and its international borders were defined in 1922. All of the people whose normal residents  was inside those borders at that time became Palestinian citizens.

Nothing else matters.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

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That's true if you consider the state of Palestine to be a state of mind.


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## ima (Apr 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> There is a young, well educated pro democracy movement in Iran.  Their goal is to oust the dictator, the mullahs & the ayatolahs & bring back the pride that was Persia under Zoroastrian rule.



Just curious, would you still support the pro-democracy movement if whoever's elected still wants to nuke Israel?
(The Shah's looking pretty good about now, lol)


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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Palestine is Israel.  Palestine is a word invented by the Romans to call Israel during the Roman Empire in an attempt to erase 1000 years of Jewish nationhood in Israel.

*Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University *


> The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.
> 
> *The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.*
> Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House


 
*PBS*...


> In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem.  Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.
> 
> It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible.  But, it would not be the death of Judaism.  In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.
> 
> *But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil.  They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine*



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > There is a young, well educated pro democracy movement in Iran.  Their goal is to oust the dictator, the mullahs & the ayatolahs & bring back the pride that was Persia under Zoroastrian rule.
> ...



Good point. Everyone supported democracy in Palestine. Then the wrong people got elected and the support for democracy went out the window.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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Palestine is Israel.  The Romans invented "palestine" to rename Israel under the Roman Empire.

Israel is a democracy.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

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There is no democracy among the Palestinian Arabs.  To have democracy you have to hold elections as scheduled and the losers have to respect the results of the elections.  Neither condition holds true with the Palestinian Arabs, so while you may claim some democratic gestures or aspirations for them, you cannot legitimately claim they have a democracy nor would you support it if it meant Hamas would lose power.  

Supporting democracy does not mean you have to support the policies of the winner of an election.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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> There is no democracy among the Palestinian Arabs. To have democracy you have to hold elections as scheduled and the losers have to respect the results of the elections.



That is true. However it was not the Palestinians who screwed up the democracy there. After Fatah lost the elections they wanted to stay in power. With the assistance of the US and Israel, Fatah attempted a coup against the elected government. They failed in Gaza but succeeded in the West Bank. There has not been an election since.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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Gaza is democratic? 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVWk8qjsU8]Hamas Imposing Sharia Law In Gaza - YouTube[/ame]


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 3, 2012)

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Your real funny , so suddenly Fatah are not Palestinians anymore ? 
There is no evidence of Israel's or the US involvement, and even if they were involved Fatah are still Palestinians. Instead of conversing they chose to fight with the Hamas.

Fatah & Hamas had disagreement and instead of conversing they started shooting at each other , that doesn't happen in a free and democratic society.

What's more Hamas are imposing sharia law in Gaza , which is the opposite of democracy and freedom.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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Fatah and the PA are the Vichy government in Palestine. And yes, they did attempt a coup in Gaza with the assistance of the US and Israel. And yes, they still rule in the West Bank even though they lost the elections.

Funny, nobody questions how that happened.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

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Bottom line is that there is no democracy among the Palestinian Arabs.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

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Not as long as the US and Israel control the west Bank.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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The West Bank that the Jews controlled dating back 3000 years when the land was known as Judea and Samaria, before the arab foreigners invaded Israel and changed the name.

Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt] 


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza.Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

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On the contrary, if the US controlled both the West Bank and Gaza, there would be democracy among the Palestinian Arabs.  Keep in mind that the only two elections the Palestinian Arabs held were forced upon them by the US, and since the US lost influence in Gaza no further elections have been held.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


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> On the contrary, if the US controlled both the West Bank and Gaza, there would be democracy among the Palestinian Arabs.



No there wouldn't. They already tried that once and the wrong people won. So the US went in and trashed the whole thing. There can be no elections until the elected government regains control.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."

P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale

*Former Gazan Nonie Darwish, Human Rights Activist, Founder, Arabs For Israel 
An Arab-Made Misery - WSJ.com *


> International donors pledged almost $4.5 billion in aid for Gaza earlier this month. It has been very painful for me to witness over the past few years the deteriorating humanitarian situation in that narrow strip where I lived as a child in the 1950s.
> 
> It is Hamas, an Islamist terror organization supported by Iran, which is using and abusing Palestinians... While Hamas leaders hid in the well-stocked bunkers and tunnels they prepared before they provoked Israel into attacking them, Palestinian civilians were exposed and caught in the deadly crossfire between Hamas and Israeli soldiers.
> 
> ...


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

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The US did not trash the elections, it opposed the policies of the group, Hamas, that won.  Supporting democracy does not mean supporting the policies of the party that wins the election.  Had the US retained influence in Gaza, there would have been new elections three years later and the Palestinian Arabs would have had the chance to reconsider their decisions.  As it is, the elections scheduled for May will probably not take place because of Hamas' opposition.  The Palestinian Arabs do not have democracy because they are clearly not capable of managing such a system.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

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If they have elections now with the illegal government in the West Bank calling the shots they will only be a sham. That is why they are not being held.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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Pestilinians are the most fucked up losers in the history of the world


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

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More bullshit.  The elections that you claim, dishonestly, give the Hamas government legitimacy were held under exactly those conditions.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

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All international observers judged the last elections to be free and fair. The polls were saying that Fatah was going to sweep the elections like they always had. So there was little intervention. The rest is history.

Since then Abbas has illegally changed the election laws that would eliminate almost anyone but Fatah from running. Of course other parties including Hamas reject having elections under those circumstances. There will be no fair elections as long as the illegal government in the West Bank is calling the shots.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Gaza democracy 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GncVr9hNZGM]Hamas bans Gaza&#39;s lingerie displays - YouTube[/ame]


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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There have been no changes in the election laws that would eliminate other candidates and international observers could be present if Hamas wanted them.  The fact is that Hamas has refused to allow any outside observers, including Palestinian Arabs not affiliated with Hamas.  Clearly, free and fair elections could and would be held if not for Hamas' opposition to them.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

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Got links?


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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Got links to freedom in Hamastan?  Surely, not for mannequins 



> GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- The Hamas-run government has launched a series of campaigns targeting fortune-tellers, mannequins and cigarette vendors in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Police sources told Ma'an that 142 fortune tellers were forced to sign an agreement at the Ministry of Interior pledging that they would not practice their craft.
> 
> ...


 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVWk8qjsU8]Hamas Imposing Sharia Law In Gaza - YouTube[/ame]


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## Hossfly (Apr 3, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


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Get a clue, Tinmore. Get some links of your own. Anything but Palestine Today or Stormfront.


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

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Links to what specifically?


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

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I know you can't prove the election laws but I know you are speaking off the top of your head. Abbas did change them.

But,

What about the observers and that free and fair elections could and would be held if not for Hamas' opposition to them.

Where did you get those?


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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Democracy in Hamastan 

Palestinian Israeli Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh...


> Mahmoud Abu Rahma is perhaps one of the bravest Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Because of his courage, he has been stabbed several times in various parts of his body.  This is what happens under Hamas and the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority governments to anyone who dares to speak out against torture and assaults on innocent civilians and freedom of speech.
> 
> Abu Rahma's "crime" is that he dared to publish an article strongly criticizing Palestinian armed groups as well as the Hamas and Palestinian Authority governments for human rights violations and the use of civilians as human shields in the war against Israel.
> 
> ...


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

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I know it doesn't come naturally to you, but try to be honest.  You lied about Abbas passing laws that would limit opposition candidates to Fatah.  I simply called you on that lie.

As for elections being held up or even cancelled because of Hamas opposition,




> RAMALLAH // Palestinians will not hold presidential and parliamentary elections in May because of disagreements between the two main political factions, a Palestinian elections official said this week.
> 
> The gridlocked Hamas-Fatah reconciliation has made it impossible for the Palestinian Central Elections Commission (CEC) to hold elections on May 4, the date originally set by the groups, said the Ramallah-based organisation's chief electoral officer, Hisham Kuhail.
> 
> "May 4 is out of the question," said Mr Kuhail, who oversees the CEC. In an interview with The National, *he said the commission cannot stage the election primarily because Hamas will not allow it to make the necessary preparations in Gaza, such as updating the voting registry and installing voting centres*.



Palestinian elections delayed by Hamas-Fatah bickering - The National

Moreover, google searches will show that Hamas has consistently opposed scheduled elections since 2009.


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## Hossfly (Apr 3, 2012)

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Has this been presented on this thread yet?

Palestinian elections delayed by Hamas-Fatah bickering - The National


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## Hossfly (Apr 3, 2012)

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Some info on the 2006 elections.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33269.pdf


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## MJB12741 (Apr 3, 2012)

Hamas has been better for Israel than for the Palestinians.  It keeps the Palis killing each other over who will rule them.  Just look what happened when Israel granted the Palestinians their own Jew free Gaza.  Palestinian terrorists killing Palestinian terrorists in record numbers while Israel keeps score between Hamas & Fatah.  Long live Hamas!





toomuchtime_ said:


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## pbel (Apr 3, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Can they possibley get any dumber than Ima?  Christians claim Jews are God's chosen people, not Jews.  And how can this be when we consider what God gave the Jews for neighbors in Israel?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For once you actually said something funny, MJ! Dumb Christian Evagelists(WE both agree), Let's make Gingrich President...the Secret Servive promises to clear out the bathroom stalls...Chosen, Armageddon,...what idiots!


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## cblackink (Apr 3, 2012)

Regardless of whether Israel has nukes or not, I'd rather they take care of their own business, and leave the U.S. out of it. I do not want to see our country involved in another war of any kind.


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

cblackink said:


> Regardless of whether Israel has nukes or not, I'd rather they take care of their own business, and leave the U.S. out of it. I do not want to see our country involved in another war of any kind.



Always remember, Israel is little satan, but, America is BIG SATAN.  

US: Iran Supporting al Qaeda Treasury Targets Key Al-Qa


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 3, 2012)

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From your link:



> Salah Al Bardawil, a Hamas official in Gaza, has criticised the CEC as beholden to the Palestine Liberation Organisation, an umbrella group of Palestinian factions that also is headed by Mr Abbas.



Indeed. 

2005 election law passes by parliament.

Presidential Candidacy
Article (12)
Eligibility for Candidacy
The candidate for the position of president must meet the following requirements:
1. To be Palestinian, a descendant of Palestinian parents.
2. To be at least 40 years of age on polling day.
3. To be a permanent resident in the Palestinian territories.
4. To be registered in the final voters list and meet the requirements for exercising the
electoral right.

http://www.palestinianbasiclaw.org/downloads/2005-elections-law.pdf

2007 election law presidential decree.

Chapter Five: Candidacy for the Presidency
Article (36): Eligibility for Candidacy
The candidate for the position of President must meet the following requirements:
1. To be Palestinian, born of Palestinian parents.
2. To be at least 40 years of age on polling day.
3. To be a permanent resident in the Palestinian Territories.
4. To be registered in the final voters registry and meet the requirements for exercising the
electoral right.
5. To uphold the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people and the
Declaration of Independence Document in addition to the provisions of the Basic Law.

http://www.palestinianbasiclaw.org/downloads/2007-anullment.pdf


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## JStone (Apr 3, 2012)

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Pestilinian elections are meaningless.  The Arab world is the most fucked up culture in the world and will always be so.

Meanwhile, Israel is splitting the atom


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## toomuchtime_ (Apr 3, 2012)

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So you acknowledge that Abbas passed no new laws that would have prevented candidate who were anit Fatah and you lied about it.  

Ok.


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## Ropey (Apr 4, 2012)

> 5. *To uphold the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people and the Declaration of Independence Document in addition to the provisions of the Basic Law.*



Yeah, and not try and stage a presidential coup and take over control of the entire Democratic process and turn it into a one party system.

You forgot that part PF.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 4, 2012)

Ropey said:


> > 5. *To uphold the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people and the Declaration of Independence Document in addition to the provisions of the Basic Law.*
> 
> 
> 
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I didn't forget. It isn't there.

BTW, thank you for noticing what toomuchtime_ missed.



> 5. To uphold the PLO as the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people and the Declaration of Independence Document in addition to the provisions of the Basic Law.



When candidates must uphold the Fatah platform to be qualified, what kind of election is that?

Abbas shouldn't talk about the Basic Law (constitution) when he violates it every day.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 4, 2012)

Daily violations of the Basic Law (constitution) by Abbas.



> RAMALLAH, (PIC)-- PA security forces in the West Bank continued, during the past month, their arrest campaigns against resistance movements' activists and supporters especially Hamas and Islamic Jihad affiliates.
> 
> Hamas said in a report on Sunday that those forces arrested 72 persons; most of them were ex-detainees, political activists, and university students.
> 
> ...


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## Ropey (Apr 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Daily violations of the Basic Law (constitution) by Abbas.
> 
> 
> 
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Yes, more Palestinians showing each other love.  

Indubitably....

That's why the Jews know what will happen to those they hate so deeply that they use their children's lives as activist media propaganda.

And brag about it.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 4, 2012)

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One of the major problems in Palestinian politics is that compliance with the peace process violates the constitutional rights of the Palestinians. Of course the Palestinians value their rights more than they value a fake peace process that does not provide peace.

Fatah prefers to trample on Palestinian rights in its wild goose chase for peace in the fake peace process.

Hamas is a supporter of Palestinian rights. That is why it won the elections over Fatah.

How can you you reach a compromise from those two positions?


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 4, 2012)

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So you are saying that between war and peace Palestinians would always choose war ? Compromise for peace does not work for them ? well no surprise there ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 4, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


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Of course I did not say that but that is the way you are.

The Palestinians want peace but what kind of peace is it that violates their rights?


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## docmauser1 (Apr 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> _The Palestinians want peace ..._


And other 1001 arabian nights.


P F Tinmore said:


> _but what kind of peace is it that violates their rights?_


Oh, palistanians and their illegal settler-squatter entitlement mentality.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 4, 2012)

I think the Palestinian so called democratic election process is wonderful.  Hamas has been a blessing to Israel.  Keeps Palestinians killing each other over who will rule so Israel can just sit back & keep score of the dead between Hamas & Fatah.  Long live Hamas!




P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
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> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 4, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I think the Palestinian so called democratic election process is wonderful.  Hamas has been a blessing to Israel.  Keeps Palestinians killing each other over who will rule so Israel can just sit back & keep score of the dead between Hamas & Fatah.  Long live Hamas!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is the US that is paying for this killing.


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## JStone (Apr 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > I think the Palestinian so called democratic election process is wonderful.  Hamas has been a blessing to Israel.  Keeps Palestinians killing each other over who will rule so Israel can just sit back & keep score of the dead between Hamas & Fatah.  Long live Hamas!
> ...



Churchill and Bernard Lewis didn't think much of the pallie excrement.

Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Official Biographer of Winston Churchill 


> I cannot stress enough the importance of the few days Churchill spent throughout Palestine in 1921. The contrast between the extraordinary negative points of view put forth by the Palestinian Arabs and the equally positive ones put forth by the Zionists struck him enormously. Churchill didn't like negativism and he couldn't comprehend why the Palestinian Arabs were being so negative. It's quite curious. If you have a look at what the Palestinian Arabs told him, you'll find that three or four are actually in the Hamas Charter today, such as the world Jewish conspiracy and so on and so forth. That said, the Palestinian Arabs just made a bad impression on him and subsequently, he became very negative toward them; in modern terms, almost racist. When Churchill spoke to the Palestinian Arabs, he actually said to them, 'You've got to help the Zionists. They're people of quality and inasmuch as they'll succeed, you'll succeed. Without them you won't succeed.'
> Amazon.com: Churchill and the Jews: A Lifelong Friendship (9780805088649): Martin Gilbert: Books



Historian Bernard Lewis


> If the peoples of the Middle East continue on their present path, the suicide bomber may become a metaphor for the whole region, and there will be no escape from a downward spiral of hate and spite, rage and self-pity, poverty and oppression.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 4, 2012)

How do you luike that?  And here I never knew the US pays Hamas & Fatah to kill each other.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I think the Palestinian so called democratic election process is wonderful.  Hamas has been a blessing to Israel.  Keeps Palestinians killing each other over who will rule so Israel can just sit back & keep score of the dead between Hamas & Fatah.  Long live Hamas!
> ...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 4, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> How do you luike that?  And here I never knew the US pays Hamas & Fatah to kill each other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is an old trick. We do it all the time.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 4, 2012)

Hey great.  Sure beats the hell out of us American taxpayers having paid Pakistan 3 billion dollars a year so they could hide bin Laden on us, don't you agree?





P F Tinmore said:


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## JStone (Apr 4, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
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Arabs and muslimes are peaceful people 

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases hundreds of thousands of Kurds

1400 year conflict between Sunnis and Shiites
Fratricide between Hamas and Fatah
Syria/Hizballah assassinate Lebanese PM Rafik Hariri

Alexis de Toqueville...


> I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.


 
Winston Churchill...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Apr 4, 2012)

You have documented some of the best known examples of Muslims killing Muslims.  I just hope the USA & Israel won't have to interfere with all their fun.  





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## ima (Apr 4, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Hey great.  Sure beats the hell out of us American taxpayers having paid Pakistan 3 billion dollars a year so they could hide bin Laden on us, don't you agree?
> 
> 
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> ...



Where do you think the Americans are hiding Osama now?


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## Ropey (Apr 4, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
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> > Hey great.  Sure beats the hell out of us American taxpayers having paid Pakistan 3 billion dollars a year so they could hide bin Laden on us, don't you agree?
> ...


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## ima (Apr 4, 2012)

Ropey said:


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> ...



lol, that's even faster than I thought someone would say that.

Seriously, you really believe that?


----------



## JStone (Apr 4, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey great.  Sure beats the hell out of us American taxpayers having paid Pakistan 3 billion dollars a year so they could hide bin Laden on us, don't you agree?
> ...



I heard up your ass


----------



## Ropey (Apr 4, 2012)

ima said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



It wasn't someone. It was the fishes saying "no comment".


----------



## High_Gravity (Apr 4, 2012)

JStone said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 4, 2012)

Amazing! So with zero proof, you all believe Sammy's dead? Sheesh, do you all believe in the tooth fairy as well? I don't care one way or the other if he is dead, but personally, I'll need some actual proof that he's dead.


----------



## High_Gravity (Apr 4, 2012)

ima said:


> Amazing! So with zero proof, you all believe Sammy's dead? Sheesh, do you all believe in the tooth fairy as well? I don't care one way or the other if he is dead, but personally, I'll need some actual proof that he's dead.



The tooth fairy is real asshole.


----------



## JStone (Apr 4, 2012)

ima said:


> Amazing! So with zero proof, you all believe Sammy's dead? Sheesh, do you all believe in the tooth fairy as well? I don't care one way or the other if he is dead, but personally, I'll need some actual proof that he's dead.



I believe your reputation is deader than bin laden, having lost your only rep point, now down to zero.  You're a loser offline and online.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 4, 2012)

What you got against fish food?  Heh Heh!





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey great.  Sure beats the hell out of us American taxpayers having paid Pakistan 3 billion dollars a year so they could hide bin Laden on us, don't you agree?
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 4, 2012)

With or without U.S. support, Israel WILL pay Iran a little visit.  They have no other choice to protect & defend their country & their citizens.  The only unknown question is WHEN?


----------



## grammahiker (Apr 4, 2012)

The last time they created anything of worth for the world was when they created the arabic numeral system. The western nations helped them develop their oil. Where's the gratitude? Once that is gone, they will shrink back into the stone age. Everyone knows they have nukes. they have not one but several sites all over the place and hidden all for one "power plant"? yeah right! hah! Imams and Ackmadumbass are always shouting that they want to wipe out Israel and how they don't think Israel has the right to exist. They are always trying to rewrite history. Such hateful people who have no concept of how to move forward and come out of the darkness.


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 5, 2012)

grammahiker said:


> The last time they created anything of worth for the world was when they created the arabic numeral system. The western nations helped them develop their oil. Where's the gratitude? Once that is gone, they will shrink back into the stone age. Everyone knows they have nukes. they have not one but several sites all over the place and hidden all for one "power plant"? yeah right! hah! Imams and Ackmadumbass are always shouting that they want to wipe out Israel and how they don't think Israel has the right to exist. They are always trying to rewrite history. Such hateful people who have no concept of how to move forward and come out of the darkness.



Arabic numerals or Hindu numerals[1][2] or Hindu-Arabic numerals[2][3] or Indo-Arabic numerals[4] are the ten digits (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9). They are descended from the Hindu-Arabic numeral system developed by Indian mathematicians, in which a sequence of digits such as "975" is read as a numeral. The Indian numerals were adopted by the Persian mathematicians in India, and passed on to the Arabs further west. 

Arabic numerals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ima (Apr 5, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> With or without U.S. support, Israel WILL pay Iran a little visit.  They have no other choice to protect & defend their country & their citizens.  The only unknown question is WHEN?



You better hope that it's before Iran goes nuclear.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 5, 2012)

Oh Lord, just look what has happened to the bloodline of the people of the Mu'tazilites, Avicenna & Averroes.  Now these people of peace, theology & reason have been replaced by Palestinians.




grammahiker said:


> The last time they created anything of worth for the world was when they created the arabic numeral system. The western nations helped them develop their oil. Where's the gratitude? Once that is gone, they will shrink back into the stone age. Everyone knows they have nukes. they have not one but several sites all over the place and hidden all for one "power plant"? yeah right! hah! Imams and Ackmadumbass are always shouting that they want to wipe out Israel and how they don't think Israel has the right to exist. They are always trying to rewrite history. Such hateful people who have no concept of how to move forward and come out of the darkness.


----------



## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> grammahiker said:
> 
> 
> > The last time they created anything of worth for the world was when they created the arabic numeral system. The western nations helped them develop their oil. Where's the gratitude? Once that is gone, they will shrink back into the stone age. Everyone knows they have nukes. they have not one but several sites all over the place and hidden all for one "power plant"? yeah right! hah! Imams and Ackmadumbass are always shouting that they want to wipe out Israel and how they don't think Israel has the right to exist. They are always trying to rewrite history. Such hateful people who have no concept of how to move forward and come out of the darkness.
> ...



Arabs are one big zero.

Arab Author Anwar Malek...


> The Arabs are afflicted with fantasies and obsolete bravado.  False, empty bravado, which does no good to anybody.  The Arabs invented or discovered the zero--but what did they do with it?  Some of them sat on it, some put it on their heads, while others wore it around their waists and began shaking their hips, their belies, and their breasts in order to sell to the world the idea that modern Arabs are doing something
> 
> Today, the Arabs constitute nothing but thousands of zeros to the left.  The Arabs have lost their worth, their humanity, their culture, and everything.  There is nothing to suggest that the Arabs can be relied upon to produce anything.  This false bravado is deeply rooted in the Arabs to an unimaginable degree.  It is so deeply rooted that the Arabs believe they can go to the moon.  If you asked your viewers whether the Arabs would be able to reach the moon by 2015, they would say, "Yes, the Arabs will get to the moon"  By Allah, the Arabs will not go more than a few hundred kilometers from their doorsteps.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYgrziadQIo]Algerian author Anwar Malek talks about the arab world. - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 5, 2012)

Oust the dictator, the mullahs & ayatollahs & bring back the Parsis to their land stolen by the followers of peaceful Islam.


----------



## JStone (Apr 5, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oust the dictator, the mullahs & ayatollahs & bring back the Parsis to their land stolen by the followers of peaceful Islam.



Islime is peaceful only for the ummah.  All infidels must otherwise convert to islime, live under islimic rule or die, based on islimic doctrine.

Cyrus, who founded the persian empire, followed the zoroastrian religion and it was he who ended the Babylonian exile of the Jews back to Judah and who permitted construction of the Second Temple in 516 BCE.

Cyrus is the only non-Jew in the Tanakh elevated to messiah stature in the Books of Ezra and Isaiah.


----------



## ima (Apr 5, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oust the dictator, the mullahs & ayatollahs & bring back the Parsis to their land stolen by the followers of peaceful Islam.



Put Israeli brainpower to work on a religious virus, anyone who prays to god dies. They could test it out on Muslims first, I'd be down with that.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 5, 2012)

As I said previously, Iran was once the greatest nation on earth under Zoroastrian rule.  The very heart of the Persian empire.  The birthplace of Cyrus the Great.  And just look at Iran today.  From the glory & grandeur of Persepolis under Zoroastrian rule to the slums of Shiraz under Muslim rule.  Oh well, Islam Happens.





ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oust the dictator, the mullahs & ayatollahs & bring back the Parsis to their land stolen by the followers of peaceful Islam.
> ...


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 6, 2012)

Israel must not let the USA dictate what Israel can & cannot do re: Iran anymore than Israel told the USA what it can & cannot do re: Afghanistan.


----------



## ima (Apr 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Israel must not let the USA dictate what Israel can & cannot do re: Iran anymore than Israel told the USA what it can & cannot do re: Afghanistan.



Don't worry, the American Jewish lobby tells the US Prez what to do.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 8, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Israel must not let the USA dictate what Israel can & cannot do re: Iran anymore than Israel told the USA what it can & cannot do re: Afghanistan.
> ...



Wow , the sheer amount of evidence you present in order to prove your argument is overwhelming. You must be right.


----------



## Jos (Apr 8, 2012)

> For the past several decades, and especially since the Six-Day War in 1967, the centrepiece of US Middle Eastern policy has been its relationship with Israel. The combination of unwavering support for Israel and the related effort to spread &#8216;democracy&#8217; throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardised not only US security but that of much of the rest of the world. This situation has no equal in American political history. Why has the US been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another state? One might assume that the bond between the two countries was based on shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives, but neither explanation can account for the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the US provides.
> 
> Instead, the thrust of US policy in the region derives almost entirely from domestic politics, and especially the activities of the &#8216;Israel Lobby&#8217;. Other special-interest groups have managed to skew foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what the national interest would suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that US interests and those of the other country &#8211; in this case, Israel &#8211; are essentially identical.
> 
> Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing that given to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct economic and military assistance since 1976, and is the largest recipient in total since World War Two, to the tune of well over $140 billion (in 2004 dollars). Israel receives about $3 billion in direct assistance each year, roughly one-fifth of the foreign aid budget, and worth about $500 a year for every Israeli. This largesse is especially striking since Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to that of South Korea or Spain.


John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt · The Israel Lobby: the Israel Lobby · LRB 23 March 2006


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 8, 2012)

Sure beats the heck out of Americans sending 3 billion dollars per year to Pakistan so they could hide bin Laden on us.





Jos said:


> > For the past several decades, and especially since the Six-Day War in 1967, the centrepiece of US Middle Eastern policy has been its relationship with Israel. The combination of unwavering support for Israel and the related effort to spread democracy throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardised not only US security but that of much of the rest of the world. This situation has no equal in American political history. Why has the US been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another state? One might assume that the bond between the two countries was based on shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives, but neither explanation can account for the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the US provides.
> >
> > Instead, the thrust of US policy in the region derives almost entirely from domestic politics, and especially the activities of the Israel Lobby. Other special-interest groups have managed to skew foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what the national interest would suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that US interests and those of the other country  in this case, Israel  are essentially identical.
> >
> ...


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

Jos said:


> > For the past several decades, and especially since the Six-Day War in 1967, the centrepiece of US Middle Eastern policy has been its relationship with Israel. The combination of unwavering support for Israel and the related effort to spread democracy throughout the region has inflamed Arab and Islamic opinion and jeopardised not only US security but that of much of the rest of the world. This situation has no equal in American political history. Why has the US been willing to set aside its own security and that of many of its allies in order to advance the interests of another state? One might assume that the bond between the two countries was based on shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives, but neither explanation can account for the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the US provides.
> >
> > Instead, the thrust of US policy in the region derives almost entirely from domestic politics, and especially the activities of the Israel Lobby. Other special-interest groups have managed to skew foreign policy, but no lobby has managed to divert it as far from what the national interest would suggest, while simultaneously convincing Americans that US interests and those of the other country  in this case, Israel  are essentially identical.
> >
> ...



You and David Duke, former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, appear to be on the same page.

Duke says his views had been "vindicated" with the publication of The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy by professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, and said he was "surprised how excellent [the paper] is". Duke dedicated several radio webcasts to the book and the authors comparing it to his work Jewish Supremacism,[98][99][100][101] although Walt stated: "I have always found Mr. Duke's views reprehensible, and I am sorry he sees this article as consistent with his view of the world".[102]

David Duke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Jos (Apr 8, 2012)

It's you who posted a link to David Duke, is he a friend of yours?


----------



## ima (Apr 8, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



I guess you were the only person out of that loop, everyone else knows what I said is true.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 8, 2012)

Look at the bright side.  ZOG RULES!  And as long as Zog rules there will never be sharia law in the USA.





ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...


----------



## Jos (Apr 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Look at the bright side.  ZOG RULES!  And as long as Zog rules there will never be sharia law in the USA.


What will happen in the streets when ZOG no longer rules


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 8, 2012)

Should that ever happen, then it will become the civilized countries of the world Vs. Islam.




Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Look at the bright side.  ZOG RULES!  And as long as Zog rules there will never be sharia law in the USA.
> ...


----------



## Jos (Apr 8, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Should that ever happen, then it will become the civilized countries of the world Vs. Islam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It will be True Americans that end the rule of zog in the USA


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 8, 2012)

Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Should that ever happen, then it will become the civilized countries of the world Vs. Islam.
> ...


God Bless the Tea Party!!


----------



## Jos (Apr 8, 2012)

The Tea Party are a non violent movement, God bless Armed Americans


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 8, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



If everyone knows it's true, it means there would be no problem at all for you to prove it , right ?


----------



## Jos (Apr 8, 2012)

> AIPAC &#8211; Israel&#8217;s American lobby group &#8211; which gets bombarded with Washington heavyweights all trying to prove they are the bigger fan of Israel.
> 
> Why &#8211; because unlike any other organisation, AIPAC has the power to end any politician&#8217;s career.
> 
> ...


The unmatched influence of the American Jewish lobby | The Casual Truth


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 8, 2012)

Jos said:


> ]The unmatched influence of the American Jewish lobby | The Casual Truth



LOL !

You call that proof ?

There is no proof in your quote what so ever. Only opinions and speculation form a biased source.

You claim that Israel is dictating the actions of  US presidents,and your proof for that is that presidents and candidates does not speak ill of Israel during AIPAC conventions ? 

The fact that the president does not say "I hate the environment" during Greenpeace convention *does not* prove that mother nature is telling the US president what to do.


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 8, 2012)

Jos said:


> > AIPAC  Israels American lobby group  which gets bombarded with Washington heavyweights all trying to prove they are the bigger fan of Israel.
> >
> > Why  because unlike any other organisation, AIPAC has the power to end any politicians career.
> >
> ...



Simple minded anti semitic garbage.  American politicians overwhelmingly support Israel because American voters overwhelmingly support Israel.  AIPAC makes no political contributions and no political endorsements.  It simply provides venues in which politicians can show their constituents that they are faithfully representing their constituents support for Israel.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 8, 2012)

The US is not "scared of little old Israel."  We are greatful to Israel for all their contributions to peace, mankind & civilization in that hostile, terrorist part of the world.





"why is the mighty United States so scared of little old Israel"?






toomuchtime_ said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > > AIPAC  Israels American lobby group  which gets bombarded with Washington heavyweights all trying to prove they are the bigger fan of Israel.
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 9, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > ]The unmatched influence of the American Jewish lobby | The Casual Truth
> ...



it's not Israel telling the US what to do, it's Jewish Americans themselves who, instead  of doing what's right, support Israel unconditionally, and then we get shit like 9/11. Like seriously, it's in the US' best interest to piss off all the arabs worldwide? Please explain.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 9, 2012)

Yes Ima.  You see, those Zionists just don't seem to understand that  America was attacked on 911 by Middle East Muslim terrorists because the USA supports Israel.  You know, just like they attacked the Sudan, Bali, the Philipeans, Holland, Madrid, etc. etc. because the USA supports Israel.





ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Jos said:
> ...


----------



## Jos (Apr 9, 2012)

Those countries were attacked  by "Middle East  terrorists" because that's how Israel operates


> Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel


Report: Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
Netayahoo was also close to the London bombings


> Mossad Chief Confirms Netanyahu&#8217;s Warning of London Bombing


Mossad Chief Confirms Netanyahu&#8217;s Warning of London Bombing « Antiwar.com Blog


----------



## JStone (Apr 9, 2012)

*United States President John Quincy Adams* 


> The precept of the koran is perpetual war against all who deny that Mahomet is the prophet of God. The vanquished may purchase their lives, by the payment of tribute; the victorious may be appeased by a false and delusive promise of peace; and the faithful follower of the prophet, may submit to the imperious necessities of defeat: but the command to propagate the Moslem creed by the sword is always obligatory, when it can be made effective. The commands of the prophet may be performed alike, by fraud, or by force
> Amazon.com: Memoir of the life of John Quincy Adams. (9781240038398): Josiah Quincy: Books


 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rls9eRKyo]Islam: Oh Allah - Kill all Jews and Americans! - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## ima (Apr 9, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Yes Ima.  You see, those Zionists just don't seem to understand that  America was attacked on 911 by Middle East Muslim terrorists because the USA supports Israel.  You know, just like they attacked the Sudan, Bali, the Philipeans, Holland, Madrid, etc. etc. because the USA supports Israel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok, so give me your reason why the arabs are so pissed at the US. And if you say it's because they hate our way of life, you will be forever standing in the corner next to JStone and the other mentally deranged.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 9, 2012)

Just saw the banner crawling across the bottom of the screen on Fox News. Seems as if Prince Reza Pahlavi has asked the Israeli government to help the opposition in Iran. News to follow.


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 9, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes Ima.  You see, those Zionists just don't seem to understand that  America was attacked on 911 by Middle East Muslim terrorists because the USA supports Israel.  You know, just like they attacked the Sudan, Bali, the Philipeans, Holland, Madrid, etc. etc. because the USA supports Israel.
> ...



The Arab street is pretty much pissed off at everyone who is not only Arab and Muslim but exactly the right kind of Arab and Muslim.  They are especially pissed off at the US because the US is the most prominent and powerful representative of western culture, the culture of colonialism the Arabs won their independence from, but most Arab governments are not pissed off at the US, and in fact, endorse and embrace the role we play in the ME, North Africa and Central Asia.  Al Qaeda was never more than a radical fringe group among Arabs, even among fundamentalists and Islamists, who, while broadly rejecting many of our social values, seek, as the Arab spring has shown us, to blend western style democracy with Islamic beliefs and values.  If you go country by country through the Arab states, you'll find there are only a few countries with which the US has difficult relationships.  

Despite the rhetoric, most Arab states have established a de facto peace with Israel, supporting the Abbas government which cooperates with Israel to an extent in preventing terrorist racist hate crimes against Jews and distancing themselves from Hamas and other groups that still embrace an ideology of violent conflict with the Jewish state.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 9, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> Just saw the banner crawling across the bottom of the screen on Fox News. Seems as if Prince Reza Pahlavi has asked the Israeli government to help the opposition in Iran. News to follow.


The Crown Prince's Plea:

Iran: Reza Pahlavi pleads with Israel not to bomb his country over its nuclear program | GlobalPost


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 9, 2012)

That is wonderful news Hoss.  I sure hope this is true.  I have said all along that the USA & Israel should make every effort to support the well educated, pro democracy youth movement in Iran.  



Hossfly said:


> Just saw the banner crawling across the bottom of the screen on Fox News. Seems as if Prince Reza Pahlavi has asked the Israeli government to help the opposition in Iran. News to follow.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 9, 2012)

Oh well, okay.  The Arabs love our way of life.  They are so pissed off because they don't have it.  Goodnight Ima.  Heh Heh.  




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes Ima.  You see, those Zionists just don't seem to understand that  America was attacked on 911 by Middle East Muslim terrorists because the USA supports Israel.  You know, just like they attacked the Sudan, Bali, the Philipeans, Holland, Madrid, etc. etc. because the USA supports Israel.
> ...


----------



## JStone (Apr 10, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Oh well, okay.  The Arabs love our way of life.  They are so pissed off because they don't have it.  Goodnight Ima.  Heh Heh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How are the Palestinians different from us?


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 10, 2012)

"How are the Palestinians different from us"?  Would you blow yourself up along with your own children to be martyred?  Do you prefer death over life?  






P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh well, okay.  The Arabs love our way of life.  They are so pissed off because they don't have it.  Goodnight Ima.  Heh Heh.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> "How are the Palestinians different from us"?  Would you blow yourself up along with your own children to be martyred?  Do you prefer death over life?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Many Americans died for their country. Do you have a point?


----------



## JStone (Apr 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > "How are the Palestinians different from us"?  Would you blow yourself up along with your own children to be martyred?  Do you prefer death over life?
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k]Palestinians celebrating the fall of the twin towers on 911 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 10, 2012)

Americans who "died for their country" DID NOT do so by killing each other like the Arabs often do.  But then we don't have 72 virgins to look forward to for doing so.  I guess Judaism & Christianity are just not religions to die for.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > "How are the Palestinians different from us"?  Would you blow yourself up along with your own children to be martyred?  Do you prefer death over life?
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 10, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Americans who "died for their country" DID NOT do so by killing each other like the Arabs often do.  But then we don't have 72 virgins to look forward to for doing so.  I guess Judaism & Christianity are just not religions to die for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



All around the world children are taught that is an honor to die for your country. Those who do are publicly honored when brought home.


----------



## JStone (Apr 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Americans who "died for their country" DID NOT do so by killing each other like the Arabs often do.  But then we don't have 72 virgins to look forward to for doing so.  I guess Judaism & Christianity are just not religions to die for.
> ...



What country?  Don't say Palestine since the Romans called Israel Palestine during the Roman Empire 

What was the capital of their fictional country?  Don't say Jerusalem since the Jews established Jerusalem as their capital 3000 years ago 

There has never been a pally country in history.  No rep points for you.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 10, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Americans who "died for their country" DID NOT do so by killing each other like the Arabs often do.  But then we don't have 72 virgins to look forward to for doing so.  I guess Judaism & Christianity are just not religions to die for.
> ...


Don't you remember what Gen. G.S.Patton said about "dying for ones country?"


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 10, 2012)

Palestinians don't even have or need a country to die for.  They do it jsut for martyrdom to honor God.


----------



## ima (Apr 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Palestinians don't even have or need a country to die for.  They do it jsut for martyrdom to honor God.



WRONG AGAIN!!! LOL!

They do it because they hate Jews (for stealing their land, among other things)


----------



## ima (Apr 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Americans who "died for their country" DID NOT do so by killing each other like the Arabs often do.  But then we don't have 72 virgins to look forward to for doing so.  I guess Judaism & Christianity are just not religions to die for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



More Americans (10,000 or so) died last year by getting shot by other Americans. That dwarfs the Middle East casualties. We don't need a cease fire in the ME, we need one in the US!


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 11, 2012)

OMG!  You mean Israel is stealing Palestinian land?  I hate land theives & could never support such people.  So tell me, when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian" land that Israel is now stealing?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Palestinians don't even have or need a country to die for.  They do it jsut for martyrdom to honor God.
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> OMG!  You mean Israel is stealing Palestinian land?  I hate land theives & could never support such people.  So tell me, when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian" land that Israel is now stealing?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've never said that anything was "Palestinian". But people (whatever their nationality at the time) did live there and were forced out, or do you deny this?


----------



## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > OMG!  You mean Israel is stealing Palestinian land?  I hate land theives & could never support such people.  So tell me, when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian" land that Israel is now stealing?
> ...



IMA DUNCE






Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History

The Arab Invasion of the State of Israel 15 May 1948



> On 15 May, 1948 six Arab armies, those of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, invaded Israel.  They advanced rapidly, threatening to destroy the one-day old State and drive its citizens into the sea.  The Israelis resisted and after ten days were able to counter-attack
> 
> Between May 1948 and January 1949, the State of Israel fought to retain its independence against the combined forces of six Arab armies.  Following the initial Arab invasion, the Israelis reopened the road to Jerusalem, won control of the Coastal Plain, secured the upper Galilee, and drove the Egyptians from the Negev.
> 
> ...


 
Yale University Press...


> Sir Martin Gilbert is the author of more than eighty books, including the six-volume authorized biography of Winston Churchill, the twin histories First World War and Second World War, Israel: A History, The Holocaust, A History of the Twentieth Century in three volumes, and nine pioneering historical atlases, including Atlas of Jewish History and Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. In 1995, he was knighted for services to British history and international relations, and in 2009 he was appointed to the British Government&#8217;s Iraq War Inquiry. He lives in London.
> 
> In Ishmael's House - Gilbert, Martin - Yale University Press


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## MJB12741 (Apr 11, 2012)

All over the entire world indigenous populations were overridden by invadors.  Fact is that any land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period of time.  So what is your point here?






ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > OMG!  You mean Israel is stealing Palestinian land?  I hate land theives & could never support such people.  So tell me, when did Israel's ancient land become this "Palestinian" land that Israel is now stealing?
> ...


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

*Tashbih Sayyed, Muslim Pakistani Scholar, Journalist, Author and Former Editor in Chief of  Our Times, Pakistan Today, and The Muslim World Today*


> Blinded by their anti-Semitism, Arabs ignore the fact that neither are they an indigenous group nor is the Jewish nationhood a new phenomenon in Palestine; the Jewish nation was born during 40 years of wandering in the Sinai more than five thousand years ago and has remained connected with Palestine ever since. Even after the destruction of the last Jewish commonwealth in the first century, the Jewish people maintained their own autonomous political and legal institutions: the Davidic dynasty was preserved in Baghdad until the thirteenth century through the rule of the Exilarch (Resh Galuta), while the return to Zion was incorporated into the most widely practiced Jewish traditions, including the end of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder, as well as in everyday prayers. Thus, Jewish historic rights were kept alive in Jewish historical consciousness.
> 
> It is a matter of record that the Arabs owe their presence in Palestine to the Ottomans who settled Muslim populations as a buffer against Bedouin attacks and Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian ruler who brought Egyptian colonists with his army in the 1830s. And during all those times when Arabs lived under the Ottoman rule, they never showed any desire for national independence.
> 
> ...


 
*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> 
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> All over the entire world indigenous populations were overridden by invadors.  Fact is that any land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period of time.  So what is your point here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is inadmissible to acquire land through the threat or use of force.

It has been that way for close to a hundred years. It was not like that in 1492. Times change.


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > All over the entire world indigenous populations were overridden by invadors.  Fact is that any land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period of time.  So what is your point here?
> ...



Israel acquired land in a defensive war, for which there is no prohibition.

You're dismissed to the dunce's corner.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 11, 2012)

Fact is that all Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the indigenous populations had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three options took place under the rule of peaceful Islam.


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > All over the entire world indigenous populations were overridden by invadors.  Fact is that any land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period of time.  So what is your point here?
> ...



Sooo, fucktard, when are the rabs going to surrender the Middle East they stole from the Jews and Christians through jihad war?
Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The rabs will return the Middle East the day you receive one reputational point, which is never


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Fact is that all Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the indigenous populations had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three options took place under the rule of peaceful Islam.



And through all that there was a core population who stayed and put down roots. They are the ones who built their country and have the right to keep it.


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## ima (Apr 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> All over the entire world indigenous populations were overridden by invadors.  Fact is that any land belongs to whoever rules it at any given period of time.  So what is your point here?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Admitting the problem is half the battle. Bravo.


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

```

```



P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is that all Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the indigenous populations had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three options took place under the rule of peaceful Islam.
> ...



Arabs and muslimes are lazy, dumb and good for nothing.

John F. Kennedy 


> When the first Zionist conference met in 1897, Palestine was a neglected wasteland
> 
> I first saw Palestine in 1939. There the neglect and ruin left by centuries of Ottoman [Muslim] misrule were slowly being transformed by miracles of [Jewish] labor and sacrifice. But Palestine was still a land of promise in 1939, rather than a land of fulfillment. I returned in 1951 to see the grandeur of Israel
> 
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Apr 11, 2012)

Excellent Tinmore.  How proud of you I am.  Bring back the few remaining Persian Zoroastrians to once again rule their land stolen by the Muslims.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is that all Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the indigenous populations had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three options took place under the rule of peaceful Islam.
> ...


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Excellent Tinmore.  How proud of you I am.  Bring back the few remaining Persian Zoroastrians to once again rule their land stolen by the Muslims.



Well, to be fair to Tinhead, he hasn't mastered the full alphabet which would further hinder his knowledge of Zoroastrians. 





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is that all Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the indigenous populations had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three options took place under the rule of peaceful Islam.
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## MJB12741 (Apr 11, 2012)

Yeah but he sure is fun to play with.  Heh Heh.





JStone said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Excellent Tinmore.  How proud of you I am.  Bring back the few remaining Persian Zoroastrians to once again rule their land stolen by the Muslims.
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## JStone (Apr 11, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by P F Tinmore
> And through all that there was a core population who stayed and put down roots. They are the ones who built their country and have the right to keep it







*Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"*


> Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.
> 
> Personally, half my family is Egyptian.  We are all like that.
> 
> ...


 
*John F. Kennedy*


> When the first Zionist conference met in 1897, Palestine was a neglected wasteland
> 
> I first saw Palestine in 1939. There the neglect and ruin left by centuries of Ottoman [Muslim] misrule were slowly being transformed by miracles of [Jewish] labor and sacrifice. But Palestine was still a land of promise in 1939, rather than a land of fulfillment. I returned in 1951 to see the grandeur of Israel
> 
> ...


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## Hossfly (Apr 12, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is that all Muslim lands are stolen lands conquered by force whereby the indigenous populations had to convert, leave or be killed.  And all three options took place under the rule of peaceful Islam.
> ...


Palestinians "built"? Palestinians are prone to lay a scunion on just about everything they touch. Sorry.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 12, 2012)

What is the country Palestinians built according to Tinmore?





Hossfly said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


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## Hossfly (Apr 12, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> What is the country Palestinians built according to Tinmore?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Shangri La?


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## MJB12741 (Apr 12, 2012)

Indeed.  Palestine was & still is as much a country as Shangri La.





Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > What is the country Palestinians built according to Tinmore?
> ...


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## MJB12741 (Apr 13, 2012)

Iran, Israel attend secret nuclear meet in Cairo - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


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## Jos (Apr 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Iran, Israel attend secret nuclear meet in Cairo - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News



    * Published  22.10.09



> Why perpetrate the lie about a secret meeting for most of a day after your Talkback censors knew it was false? To continue publishing what you have been proven to be a lie, is to lie. So Haaretz is either a willing liar, a supplicant to liars, or a craven supplicant to liars - or, perhaps worst of all, a craven who knows it lies, could admit it, and lacks the guts. Which is it, and why does, Haaretz consider it necessary to lie? Is it simply because Haaretz lacks the sense to do a fact check? Is it because Haaretz is dedicated to the Likud goal of starting a war? Is it because Haaretz is simply incompetent as a news source? What other possible reason is there? Too lazy to check anything out? Which is the Haaretz brand of incompetence or malice? Or simply a government with the power of censorship and no morals? In any case, Haaretz has failed Israel, honesty and the world.


Iran, Israel attend secret nuclear meet in Cairo - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


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## JStone (Apr 13, 2012)

Israel's secret plan is to attack Iran on date night in Iran with the goats and camels, advocated by Ayatollah Khomeini and the religion of bestiality 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5Xpdu4ELE]Sex with Animals in Islam - YouTube[/ame]


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## Hossfly (Apr 13, 2012)

Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Iran, Israel attend secret nuclear meet in Cairo - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
> ...


Jos=querulous


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## MJB12741 (Apr 13, 2012)

Eh, Jos!  For your education, the meeting was confirmed by the Egyptian Foreign Ministry & all attendents plus the meeting place have been provided.  What is it about documented facts that so troubles you?




Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Iran, Israel attend secret nuclear meet in Cairo - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
> ...


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## Jos (Apr 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Eh, Jos!  For your education, the meeting was confirmed by the Egyptian Foreign Ministry & all attendents plus the meeting place have been provided.  What is it about documented facts that so troubles you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*From your link*


> Israeli and Iranian representatives recently took part in a conference in Cairo on nuclear non-proliferation in the Middle East, the Israel Atomic Energy Commission (IAEC) said Thursday, but *Tehran said the report on the meeting was untrue.
> *
> *IAEC Spokeswoman Yael Doron, said, however that "no dialogue or interaction" between the Israeli and Iranian representatives took place at the meeting in Cairo* in September. She gave no further details.
> 
> Iran however dismissed the report, with the spokesman for the Iranian Atomic Organization (IAO) telling the website of state television that "The reports in this regard are sheer lies and there has been no meeting in Cairo."



Jew lie is still a few months away


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## JStone (Apr 13, 2012)

> Jos



Jos 






*US: Iran Supporting al Qaeda Treasury Targets Key Al-Qa*


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## Jos (Apr 13, 2012)

JStone,Marc39,Warraq, longjohnnebel, beamargaret28, dothenalabama,mitch40,marcbalt


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## JStone (Apr 13, 2012)

Jos, the ugly face of mental illness
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sRCbp29j14]Mental Illness Awareness Week Commercial 2011 - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Apr 13, 2012)

Maybe Jos just needs a med adjustment.





JStone said:


> Jos, the ugly face of mental illness
> Mental Illness Awareness Week Commercial 2011 - YouTube


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## MJB12741 (Apr 13, 2012)

Is there ANYONE who feels Israel hasn't waited long enough to take action under Iran's threat to go nuclear & Israel beware?


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## Hossfly (Apr 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Is there ANYONE who feels Israel hasn't waited long enough to take action under Iran's threat to go nuclear & Israel beware?


This pilgrim doesn't think so. Israel should have already completed the after action report. Times awastin'!


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## JStone (Apr 13, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there ANYONE who feels Israel hasn't waited long enough to take action under Iran's threat to go nuclear & Israel beware?
> ...



Bomb the muslime wife beaters, child honor killers, jihadists and pedophile worshippers back to the 7th century.  Oh, wait, they're still in the 7th century.


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 13, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Is there ANYONE who feels Israel hasn't waited long enough to take action under Iran's threat to go nuclear & Israel beware?



What threat? Iran is not going to bomb anyone.


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## JStone (Apr 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there ANYONE who feels Israel hasn't waited long enough to take action under Iran's threat to go nuclear & Israel beware?
> ...


"Rep System Guidelines: Our reputation system is designed to provide a feedback and credibility mechanism."
P F Tinmore Rep Power: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,512
"PF Tinmore is off the scale"



*US: Iran Supporting al Qaeda Treasury Targets Key Al-Qa*


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 13, 2012)

> This message is hidden because JStone is on your ignore list.



This is so cool!


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## JStone (Apr 13, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> > This message is hidden because JStone is on your ignore list.
> 
> 
> 
> This is so cool!


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## MJB12741 (Apr 13, 2012)

Not after Israel pays Iran a little visit.





P F Tinmore said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there ANYONE who feels Israel hasn't waited long enough to take action under Iran's threat to go nuclear & Israel beware?
> ...


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## ima (Apr 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Is there ANYONE who feels Israel hasn't waited long enough to take action under Iran's threat to go nuclear & Israel beware?



Attacking Iran for the "nuclear" reason only gives Iran the right to nuke them back some day. Plus, they're never going to stop the program for good, that's absurd.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 14, 2012)

And the time has come for Israel to take good care of peaceful Iran's nuclear ambitions.


Iran Film: Iran Plans to Conquer Israel, World


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## ima (Apr 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> And the time has come for Israel to take good care of peaceful Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> 
> Iran Film: Iran Plans to Conquer Israel, World



So you think that it's possible to stop them for ever? I'm not sure that that's even possible. just saying.


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## MJB12741 (Apr 14, 2012)

I agree with you that neither Israel nor the USA nor any other countries can stop Iran forever in pursuing nuclear weapons if that is what they want to do.  Best bet is to change their thinking by showing Iran how useless that goal is with a nuclear Israel to the West & a nuclear India to the East.  Is it worth totally destroying Iran's already failing economy & infastructure so they can be in a situation of nuclear checkmate?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > And the time has come for Israel to take good care of peaceful Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> ...


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## ima (Apr 14, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I agree with you that neither Israel nor the USA nor any other countries can stop Iran forever in pursuing nuclear weapons if that is what they want to do.  Best bet is to change their thinking by showing Iran how useless that goal is with a nuclear Israel to the West & a nuclear India to the East.  Is it worth totally destroying Iran's already failing economy & infastructure so they can be in a situation of nuclear checkmate?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They don't care about the economy or infrastructure, and you can tell by the lack of same throughout their country.


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## JStone (Apr 14, 2012)

Israel's secret plan is to catch Iran offguard and attack during animal date night, as per Ayatollah Khomeini 


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5Xpdu4ELE]Sex with Animals in Islam - YouTube[/ame]


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## ima (Apr 14, 2012)

JStone, it's beautiful, you're on my ignore list, I don't even see your posts anymore. Have fun.


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## Jos (Apr 14, 2012)

> Bestiality is not allowed in Islam but some people who are looking to demonise and degrade Muslims (and Islam) erroneously claim it is allowed in Islam.


Is Sex With Animals Allowed in Islam? « Yahya Snow's Blog


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## JStone (Apr 14, 2012)

Israeli Suprise Attack On Animal Date Night  


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5Xpdu4ELE]Sex with Animals in Islam - YouTube[/ame]


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## MJB12741 (Apr 14, 2012)

Now now Ima.  Why must you refer to Mr. Stone as "ASSHOLE!"  You see, when you do that you have acknowledged that he has intellectually defeated you in that you have no rational rebuttal.  Believe me Ima, I most certainly don't see you as an asshole.





ima said:


> JStone, it's beautiful, you're on my ignore list, I don't even see your posts anymore. Have fun.


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## ima (Apr 15, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Now now Ima.  Why must you refer to Mr. Stone as "ASSHOLE!"  You see, when you do that you have acknowledged that he has intellectually defeated you in that you have no rational rebuttal.  Believe me Ima, I most certainly don't see you as an asshole.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mr copy&paste couldn't defeat a paper bag intellectually. And he's obnoxious. Probably physically malformed in some way as well. With bad teeth and smelly breath. Hmmm, did I just describe a Hassid?


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## Lipush (Apr 15, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> And the time has come for Israel to take good care of peaceful Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> 
> 
> Iran Film: Iran Plans to Conquer Israel, World



Wouln't THAT be something to watch, LOL!


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## MJB12741 (Apr 15, 2012)

Let the games begin.  Run Nejad, run!




Lipush said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > And the time has come for Israel to take good care of peaceful Iran's nuclear ambitions.
> ...


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## Billo_Really (Apr 15, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> I agree with you that neither Israel nor the USA nor any other countries can stop Iran forever in pursuing nuclear weapons if that is what they want to do.  Best bet is to change their thinking by showing Iran how useless that goal is with a nuclear Israel to the West & a nuclear India to the East.  Is it worth totally destroying Iran's already failing economy & infastructure so they can be in a situation of nuclear checkmate?


You need to first prove their nuclear program has been weaponized.  So far, no one has submitted any evidence that has happened.  And it's pretty irresponsible to act like they have, when you don't know.  Especially, if you consider the possible consequences.

Do you realize, if there is an attack on Iran, that could result in an end to all life on planet earth.  Because such an attack, would put us in a direct military confrontation with Russia.  And if we face Russia, we also face China (because of their defense pact).  And if we do face them, it won't be suicide bombers we have to worry about, it will be real bombers, with real WMD's that they can deliver to our shores in under 30 minutes.  That's not some mythical threat like radical Islam, that's a real threat.

So until someone can pony up a smoking gun, Israel needs to shut it's fucking mouth!


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## JStone (Apr 15, 2012)

loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you that neither Israel nor the USA nor any other countries can stop Iran forever in pursuing nuclear weapons if that is what they want to do.  Best bet is to change their thinking by showing Iran how useless that goal is with a nuclear Israel to the West & a nuclear India to the East.  Is it worth totally destroying Iran's already failing economy & infastructure so they can be in a situation of nuclear checkmate?
> ...



The iranian troglodytes REALLY want a nuke to conduct medical research.  EVERYONE knows this. 

And, under customary law, a preemptive Israeli strike against a belligerent iran would be entirely lawful.

So, you shut YOUR fucking mouth!


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## MJB12741 (Apr 16, 2012)

LMAO!  I like loinboy.  He is so funny.




loinboy said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you that neither Israel nor the USA nor any other countries can stop Iran forever in pursuing nuclear weapons if that is what they want to do.  Best bet is to change their thinking by showing Iran how useless that goal is with a nuclear Israel to the West & a nuclear India to the East.  Is it worth totally destroying Iran's already failing economy & infastructure so they can be in a situation of nuclear checkmate?
> ...


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## Mr. Jones (Apr 16, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> The moment Nejad publically said Iran is going nuclear & Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth, Netanyahu should have called Nejad to thank him for giving Israel a reason & a place to send their nukes for a little visit.  Let Iran worry about the USA & Israel instead of the other way around.



THE "WIPE OFF THE MAP" CONTROVERSY: A Rare Admission From Israel in Relation to the "Iran Threat"


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## JStone (Apr 16, 2012)

US: Iran Supporting al Qaeda Treasury Targets Key Al-Qa


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## MJB12741 (Apr 16, 2012)

It is well known that Iran supports & helps Al-Qaida.  It is Iran's attempt to kill us Americans & bring down our country.





JStone said:


> US: Iran Supporting al Qaeda Treasury Targets Key Al-Qa


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## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> It is well known that Iran supports & helps Al-Qaida.  It is Iran's attempt to kill us Americans & bring down our country.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bring down our country? Who they gonna call? Ghostbusters?

It was absurd scenario do you see anyone taking the US down?


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## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > It is well known that Iran supports & helps Al-Qaida.  It is Iran's attempt to kill us Americans & bring down our country.
> ...


Yes. Starting with our Kenyan POTUS, his supporters, his backers, ACLU, NOW,etc, etc.....................


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## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...



oops, I meant to write "in what absurd scenario do you see anyone taking the US down?"

And I mean wiping us out as a country. C'mon give me a real answer. The ACLU, geez...


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## P F Tinmore (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > It is well known that Iran supports & helps Al-Qaida.  It is Iran's attempt to kill us Americans & bring down our country.
> ...



They will just make us spend ourselves into the dirt for war and so called security.

Why do you think the Soviets fell?


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## MJB12741 (Apr 17, 2012)

Eh, Ima, I beleive I said Iran's ATTEMPT to bring down our country.  Good luck with your reading disorder.




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > It is well known that Iran supports & helps Al-Qaida.  It is Iran's attempt to kill us Americans & bring down our country.
> ...


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## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Eh, Ima, I beleive I said Iran's ATTEMPT to bring down our country.  Good luck with your reading disorder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So how are they going to ATTEMPT to bring down our country? The ACLU?


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## MJB12741 (Apr 17, 2012)

Good grief man.  I already said through Iran's support for terrorist organizations like Al Qaida.  Get it yet?




ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Eh, Ima, I beleive I said Iran's ATTEMPT to bring down our country.  Good luck with your reading disorder.
> ...


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## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Good grief man.  I already said through Iran's support for terrorist organizations like Al Qaida.  Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Imadolt hasn't had his morning V-8 cocktail yet.


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## Jos (Apr 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Good grief man.  I already said through Iran's support for terrorist organizations like Al Qaida.  Get it yet?





> U.S. government financial support for the Afghan Islamic militants was substantial. Aid to Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, an Afghan mujahideen leader. and founder and leader of the Hezb-e Islami radical Islamic militant faction, alone amounted "by the most conservative estimates" to $600 million. Later, Hekmatyar "worked closely" with bin Laden in the early 1990s, when US support had ceased.[79] In addition to hundreds of millions of dollars of American aid, Hekmatyar also received the lion's share of aid from the Saudis.[80] There is evidence that the CIA supported Hekmatyar's drug trade activities by giving him immunity for his opium trafficking that financed operation of his militant faction


al-Qaeda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Good grief man.  I already said through Iran's support for terrorist organizations like Al Qaida.  Get it yet?
> ...



You likee the wiki, monkey?  Have a banana instead


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## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

Jos said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Good grief man.  I already said through Iran's support for terrorist organizations like Al Qaida.  Get it yet?
> ...


Hussein O'Bama got support too. Now see what a clusterfuck we're in.


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## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Good grief man.  I already said through Iran's support for terrorist organizations like Al Qaida.  Get it yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And you think that they expect this to bring us down?


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Good grief man.  I already said through Iran's support for terrorist organizations like Al Qaida.  Get it yet?
> ...



Israel's secret plan is to attack Iran by surprise on date night with their goats and camels as per khomeini.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5Xpdu4ELE]Sex with Animals in Islam - YouTube[/ame]


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> MJB12741 said:
> 
> 
> > Good grief man.  I already said through Iran's support for terrorist organizations like Al Qaida.  Get it yet?
> ...



Well I'm sure that if Iran would get a nuke and "accidentally" lose it, and then it would "accidentally" appear in the hands of Al Qaeda. This would be a great first step to bring the US down.

Seriously now, I think it's pretty clear that if they support Al Qaeda and the organization that clearly wants to bring down the US, then they themselves support these idea.


----------



## ima (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> > MJB12741 said:
> ...


So you think that 1 nuke will bring the US down?


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> It is well known that Iran supports & helps Al-Qaida.  It is Iran's attempt to kill us Americans & bring down our country.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's kind of strange since they haven't attacked another country in over 200 years.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> Why do you think the Soviets fell?


They ran out of money.  Just like we're gonna do if we don't cut that god-damn defense budget in half.

BTW, I don't know if you noticed, but when the Soviets collapsed, Russia kept their army.  And if you don't think they can bring us down, then you watch way too much TV.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> The iranian troglodytes REALLY want a nuke to conduct medical research.  EVERYONE knows this.
> 
> And, under customary law, a preemptive Israeli strike against a belligerent iran would be entirely lawful.
> 
> So, you shut YOUR fucking mouth!


A "pre-emptive strike" is only legal if the threat is "iminant".  You can't even prove their program has been weaponized, let alone proving they want to attack people.  You and your ilk are the only ones running around trying to start a war.  You war-mongers are pretty fucked!


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## Foxfyre (Apr 17, 2012)

Islam believes that it is the will of Allah and does expect to take over our country as well as the rest of the world.  But there are widely diverse views in how that will happen.

The Islamofacist militant Islam expects to do it through aggression, threats, terror, and eventually battering everybody into submission.

Moderate Islam expects to do it bloodlessly through attraction, attrition, and overwhelming everybody with sheer numbers until Sharia Law is complete everywhere.

What both groups have on their side is patience and unlimited time.

The former group expects to obliterate Israel and remove it from the face of the Earth.  The process can be speeded up and made simpler by winning the world to their point of view that Israel are the oppressors and by forcing them to take in as many Arab refugees as want to live in Israel, and by forcing Israel to stand down from opposing Hamas, Hezbollah, and other Arab control centers.

The second group expects to infiltrate Israel and simply out-birth them until the Arabs are in control.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > The iranian troglodytes REALLY want a nuke to conduct medical research.  EVERYONE knows this.
> ...



Maybe, you should first learn how to spell "imminent" before you try to bullshit your clueless ass through international law.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Maybe, you should first learn how to spell "imminent" before you try to tackle international law.
> 
> Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube


At least I know what international law allows a country to legally attack another.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

ima said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > ima said:
> ...



I'll mark it up for you .... 



> Well I'm sure that if Iran would get a nuke and "accidentally" lose it,  and then it would "accidentally" appear in the hands of Al Qaeda. This  would be a great* first step* to bring the US down.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Islam believes that it is the will of Allah and does expect to take over our country as well as the rest of the world.  But there are widely diverse views in how that will happen.
> 
> The Islamofacist militant Islam expects to do it through aggression, threats, terror, and eventually battering everybody into submission.
> 
> ...


Oh c'mon!  We have over 800 bases around the world and enough nukes to kill the population of the planet 37 times and you're telling me that a way people worship, is a threat?

But I do like your notion about going in and fucking the jews out of Israel.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe, you should first learn how to spell "imminent" before you try to tackle international law.
> ...



First, master grade school-level spelling.  Then, if you ever graduate from high school, you can set your sights on law school.

Baby steps, you know?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Vp642ERhM&feature=related]Sound-Effects - Crowd Laughing - YouTube[/ame]


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > First, master gradeschool-level spelling.  Then, if you ever graduate from high school, you can set your sights on law school.
> ...


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe, you should first learn how to spell "imminent" before you try to tackle international law.
> ...



what's all that talk about legality?
Was that US attack on Iraq legal? Or Afghanistan? Was it in accordance with international law?

I am sorry to say but that international law is a joke. No one pays attention to it, and when it's broken nothing gets done about it.

also, what you "know" about international law does not seem to hold much water.


> Article 2, Section 4 of the U.N. Charter is generally considered to be '*jus cogens'* (literally: "compelling law", in practice: "higher international law"), and prohibits all U.N. members from exercising "the _threat_ or _use_ of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state". Some have argued that Article 51 of the UN Charter permits self defense, however, article 51 also stipulates that self defense by a member state is justified _only if_,  "an armed attack occurs," against it. *From this it is reasonable to  assume that if no armed attack has yet occurred that no automatic  justification for preemptive 'self-defense' has yet been made 'legal'  under the UN Charter.*


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preemptive_war

As it turns out under international law there is no justification for preemptive war even when the threat is imminent.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


That's a pretty un-American thing to say, since our country is based on the rule of law.  Part of what it means to be an American, is respect for the law.  That's what made us different.  Now, for you to advocate lawlessness, goes against our American heritage.  If you're right, that's like saying it was okay for Hitler to invade Poland.  

Our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were the most illegal thing a country can do.  I'll spell it out for you...

These wars, are wars of choice.
We "chose" to go to war, we did not "have" to go to war.
Wars of choice, are wars of aggression.
And wars of aggression, are crimes against humanity.
And this particular crime, is the highest crime of all, because it contains the collective evil of all the rest.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



First, learn to spell, then, learn the law: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


To the letter of the law, you're right.  But I somehow think, if some country has a fleet of ships off are coast line with landing craft and soldiers massing in boats, I think no one could blame us for firing the first shot.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> First, learn to spell, then, learn the law: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


You always puss out when it gets to the point of walking your talk.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > First, learn to spell, then, learn the law: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html
> ...



What, no schools in the slum in which you live to teach you basic spelling?


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



Also there are treaties and alliances.  Does anybody with a clue think that Israel would exist right now if the rest of the world did not know that the USA and the U.K. and possibly a few others would come to its immediate defense if seriously attacked?

How does a little country survive amidst enemies unless it has big, strong, friends?

Why do no European countries have significant armies anymore?  They don't need them because they know that N.A.T.O. will assemble and utilize a sizable army to defend them against anyone who attacks them.  And they know the U.S.A., the one remaining super power, will provide a huge chunk of that army.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



No one could blame is a far stretch from legal.
Anyway,nowadays one has no need for fleets of ships, massive amounts of troops, and other conventional means. Nowadays it's enough to have nuclear weapons. And if a country develops nuclear weapons it's equivalent to massing troops and ships.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...



Open a history book so you don't look so uneducated.  The US did not provide military assistance to Israel when it decisively defeated multiple arab militaries in an existential war in 1948.

Today, Israel is the 4th largest military contractor in the world, ahead of the UK.  Virtually every military in the world deploys Israeli military technology, such as UAVs in Iraq and Afghanistan pioneered for combat by Israel  

Now, even you know


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Open a history book so you don't look so uneducated.  The US did not provide military assistance to Israel when it decisively defeated multiple arab militaries in an existential war in 1948.
> 
> Today, Israel is the 4th largest military contractor in the world, ahead of the UK.  Virtually every military in the world deploys Israeli military technology, such as UAVs in Iraq and Afghanistan pioneered for combat by Israel
> 
> Now, even you know


A war started by jewish terrorists  against innocent arabs.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> No one could blame is a far stretch from legal.
> Anyway,nowadays one has no need for fleets of ships, massive amounts of troops, and other conventional means. Nowadays it's enough to have nuclear weapons. And if a country develops nuclear weapons it's equivalent to massing troops and ships.


We don't even need to go that far.  As long as we have that box in the corner, you can take over a country without even leaving your home.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Also there are treaties and alliances.  Does anybody with a clue think that Israel would exist right now if the rest of the world did not know that the USA and the U.K. and possibly a few others would come to its immediate defense if seriously attacked?
> 
> How does a little country survive amidst enemies unless it has big, strong, friends?
> 
> Why do no European countries have significant armies anymore?  They don't need them because they know that N.A.T.O. will assemble and utilize a sizable army to defend them against anyone who attacks them.  And they know the U.S.A., the one remaining super power, will provide a huge chunk of that army.


Israel doesn't need any help.  They're the big dog in the ME.  They run that part of the world.  No one has the capability of wiping them out, even if they wanted to.  And the last time someone tried, got their ass kicked in just 8 days.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Open a history book so you don't look so uneducated.  The US did not provide military assistance to Israel when it decisively defeated multiple arab militaries in an existential war in 1948.
> ...



First, master grade school spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html

After, have an adult with a functioning brain open a history book for you.

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert, Author of 10 Books on Middle East History

The Arab Invasion of the State of Israel 15 May 1948


> On 15 May, 1948 six Arab armies, those of Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, invaded Israel.  They advanced rapidly, threatening to destroy the one-day old State and drive its citizens into the sea.  The Israelis resisted and after ten days were able to counter-attack
> 
> Between May 1948 and January 1949, the State of Israel fought to retain its independence against the combined forces of six Arab armies.  Following the initial Arab invasion, the Israelis reopened the road to Jerusalem, won control of the Coastal Plain, secured the upper Galilee, and drove the Egyptians from the Negev.
> 
> ...


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## docmauser1 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > _I am sorry to say but that international law is a joke. No one pays attention to it, and when it's broken nothing gets done about it._
> ...


Has the constitution been abolished, yet?


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> First, master grade school spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html
> 
> After, have an adult with a functioning brain open a history book for you.
> 
> ...


You need to start when the mass migration of jews into that area began.  Remember?  You even claimed on an earlier post that it was a "baron wasteland", before the jews got there.  That means they weren't there before.  Which means they moved there.  And that is when the problem started, because they displaced the people who were already living there.

You're such a fuckin' liar!


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...


No, it's been rendered "null and void" by the Patriot and Military Commission's Acts.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > First, master grade school spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html
> ...



First, master grade school spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html

After, have an adult with a functioning brain open a history book and learn that Jews established Israel 3000 years ago and have remained the only nation in Israel for this time.

Arabs are indigenous to arabia, not Israel.

Your lesson for the day


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> First, master grade school spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html
> 
> After, have an adult with a functioning brain open a history book and learn that Jews established Israel 3000 years ago and have remained the only nation in Israel for this time.
> 
> ...


Lessons contain substance and address specific issues.  That had neither.  You're avoiding the issue and we both know why.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



Well that's exactly what I said.The fact that America went to an illegal war proves that the international law is a joke



loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > First, master grade school spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html
> ...




How does immigration proves displacement?
The Jews who immigrated to the British mandate bought lands fairly without displacing anyone.Most of the time the lands they bought were uninhabited and overpriced.
Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > First, master grade school spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html
> ...



Can you name even one indigenous nation other than the Jewish nation established in Israel during the past 3000 years? No, I didn't think so. 

Sucks being you, yes?


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> Well that's exactly what I said.The fact that America went to an illegal war proves that the international law is a joke


It proves that we're the joke.  It proves that everything we've been taught about our country is a total myth.  It proves our American values is just one big lie.  

These wars reflect on us.  They're done in our name.  Over a million people are dead and over 4.5 million are now refugees, because we didn't care enough to stop our government from doing the exact same thing the nazis did in WWII.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Can you name even one indigenous nation other than the Jewish nation established in Israel during the past 3000 years? No, I didn't think so.
> 
> Sucks being you, yes?


How can you be indigenous in a "baron wasteland"?

That's an oxy-moron, moron.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > Well that's exactly what I said.The fact that America went to an illegal war proves that the international law is a joke
> ...



The educational system certainly has failed you.  You are incapable of basic spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


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## Foxfyre (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...



Can you name any other group of people who have been as unwelcome and as persecuted in various parts of the world as have the Jews?  Can you name any other group of people who were imprisoned en masse, tortured, humiliated, starved, gassed and 6 million of them murdered before the Allied forces rescued those who were left?  Can you imagine remaining in a country with the same people who had done that to you?

The Israelis occupy a tiny TINY strip of land that holds thousands of years of history and sacred significance to them.  The land is no larger than one of our New Mexico counties.  It is the ONE place in all the Earth in which they are finally free to organize their lives as they choose and be free to be who they are without fear that their government will turn on them and persecute them.

And why the rest of the world faults them for that or cannot understand why they want and need that is a mystery to me.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> How does immigration proves displacement?
> The Jews who immigrated to the British mandate bought lands fairly without displacing anyone.Most of the time the lands they bought were uninhabited and overpriced.
> Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Land records at the time indicated arabs owned 90% of the land and wound up with 30%.  Let's not forget, over 700,000 arabs were driven out due to jewish terrorism.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> Can you name any other group of people who have been as unwelcome and as persecuted in various parts of the world as have the Jews?  Can you name any other group of people who were imprisoned en masse, tortured, humiliated, starved, gassed and 6 million of them murdered before the Allied forces rescued those who were left?  Can you imagine remaining in a country with the same people who had done that to you?
> 
> The Israelis occupy a tiny TINY strip of land that holds thousands of years of history and sacred significance to them.  The land is no larger than one of our New Mexico counties.  It is the ONE place in all the Earth in which they are finally free to organize their lives as they choose and be free to be who they are without fear that their government will turn on them and persecute them.
> 
> And why the rest of the world faults them for that or cannot understand why they want and need that is a mystery to me.


They got their land.  That's not the issue.  The issue is, their claim to someone else's land.  Why can't you see the tyranny they are inflicting on others?  The "occupiers" are not the victims.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> The educational system certainly has failed you.  You are incapable of basic spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


What's funny is, you  can't even state what that specific failure is.  The best you can do, is innuendo.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > How does immigration proves displacement?
> ...



First, master grade school spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html

Wiki is for monkeys.  Palestine is Israel.

After, have an adult with a functioning brain open a history book for you.

During the Ottoman Empire, 99% of the land was classified as "miri" land owned by the Sultanate.  Land was leased to residents for cultivation but ultimately reverted back to the Sultanate. 

Wealthy absentee Arab landlords who owned "mulk" land sold it to the Jews.  Arab land sales to Jews is well-documented.

Your lesson for the day


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wolverine1984 said:
> ...


Who was Irgun?

And why did Einstein call Begin a terrorist?


----------



## docmauser1 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


Ah, that's why we are babbling "international law", aren't we?


----------



## Foxfyre (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Can you name any other group of people who have been as unwelcome and as persecuted in various parts of the world as have the Jews?  Can you name any other group of people who were imprisoned en masse, tortured, humiliated, starved, gassed and 6 million of them murdered before the Allied forces rescued those who were left?  Can you imagine remaining in a country with the same people who had done that to you?
> ...



What tyranny?  Israel is the ONLY nation in the entire Middle East with open and fair elections and that respects human rights and that includes the million or so Arabs who are Israeli citizens, allowed seats on the Knesset,  and full citizenship rights.  The only way Arabs are treated differently is that military service is not required for them because of the likelihood they would be in a position of fighting their own blood and kin.  Still Arabs are allowed to serve in the military if they choose to do so.

Israel has not initiated any aggression against its neighbors, but they do whatever is necessary to keep the suicide bombers out, to retaliate against rockets fired into their residential neighborhoods, and in general protect their people as well as they can.

The land they have was controlled by the U.K. that gave it up, was designated by the U.N. and nobody was forced to leave the land who already lived there.  It was mostly dry and barren desert until the Jews took over control of the area and now it blooms and thrives.  But from Day 1 of the existence of Israel, their Arab neighbors have plotted or acted to drive them out.


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## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > How does immigration proves displacement?
> ...



It has nothing to do with immigration the reason for that is the war.


There is no land records that show 90% of Arab ownership.I would very much like to see where you got this information from.
It's true that the Jews owned about 6 to 8% of the land, however there is no record about the reminder of the land some of the 92% belongs to the Arabs some belonged to absentee landlords in some belonged to the state( British mandate and the time ).

I think it would be wise to point out that the Jews lived on their 6 to 8% of the land until the war in 1948.


You seem to be surprised about the low percentage of the land that the Arabs got in the end of the war.

Before war broke out Palestinians Arabs rejected the UN partition plan and instead went to war against the Jews.

Well wars are like that there is always the possibility for failure. And when you initiate a war you must take into account that you may lose.

Arabs lost thus must face the consequence of the war they themselves initiated.



> Let's not forget, over 700,000 arabs were driven out due to jewish terrorism.


I would like to know what you're talking about specifically.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



Who were the British military who established their miltary base in a civilian installation in violation of the law and making it a legitimate target?


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Foxfyre said:


> What tyranny?  Israel is the ONLY nation in the entire Middle East with open and fair elections and that respects human rights and that includes the million or so Arabs who are Israeli citizens, allowed seats on the Knesset,  and full citizenship rights.  The only way Arabs are treated differently is that military service is not required for them because of the likelihood they would be in a position of fighting their own blood and kin.  Still Arabs are allowed to serve in the military if they choose to do so.
> 
> Israel has not initiated any aggression against its neighbors, but they do whatever is necessary to keep the suicide bombers out, to retaliate against rockets fired into their residential neighborhoods, and in general protect their people as well as they can.
> 
> The land they have was controlled by the U.K. that gave it up, was designated by the U.N. and nobody was forced to leave the land who already lived there.  It was mostly dry and barren desert until the Jews took over control of the area and now it blooms and thrives.  But from Day 1 of the existence of Israel, their Arab neighbors have plotted or acted to drive them out.


What tyranny?  They've been completely blockading Gaza for the last 2 years.  Which is collectively punishing over 1.5 million people who've committed no crime.  You don't think starving Gazan children ranks as tyranny?

And don't give me this democracy bullshit.  The Knesset is busily enacting apartheid laws that make arabs second class citizens in their own country.  They have these "jew only" roads; jew only settlements; and their minister of the interior has publically admitted to saying there should be segragation between the races.

How can you say Israel has not initiated any aggression when theyve occupied land in violation of international law for the last 50 years?  Don't you hear all the crap their saying about Iran?  That's not aggression?

And no, Palestine was not a baron wasteland.  People were living there when the zionists showed up and took their homes with violence.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Who were the British military who established their miltary base in a civilian installation in violation of the law and making it a legitimate target?


It is illegal for a terrorist group to target civilian infrastructure under any conditions.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _Land records at the time indicated arabs owned 90% of the land ..._


They didn't, of course, but they can drea-am!


loinboy said:


> _... and wound up with 30%._


Which they don't own either, of course, so, they may declare themselves lucky jews are a humane bunch.


loinboy said:


> _Let's not forget, over 700,000 arabs were driven out due to jewish terrorism._


It's a popular pc euphemism for "arab dreams of plundering and stuff gone bad", of course.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Who were the British military who established their miltary base in a civilian installation in violation of the law and making it a legitimate target?
> ...



Your knowledge of the law of armed conflict and of history are as poor as your spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> It has nothing to do with immigration the reason for that is the war.


 It was what happened after they immigrated, which started the violence.  80 years prior to that, there was no significant violence between the two groups.  



> _*It must be emphasized that the Zionists had no right to most of the land they declared as part of Israel, while the Arabs did*. This war, therefore, was not, as is commonly asserted in mainstream commentary, an act of aggression by the Arab states against Israel. Rather, the Arabs were acting in defense of their rights, to prevent the Zionists from illegally and unjustly taking over Arab lands and otherwise disenfranchising the Arab population. The act of aggression was the Zionist leaderships unilateral declaration of the existence of Israel, and the Zionists use of violence to enforce their aims both prior to and subsequent to that declaration.
> 
> *In the course of the war that ensued, Israel implemented a policy of ethnic cleansing. 700,000 Arab Palestinians were either forced from their homes or fled out of fear of further massacres, such as had occurred in the village of Deir Yassin shortly before the Zionist declaration.* These Palestinians have never been allowed to return to their homes and land, despite it being internationally recognized and encoded in international law that such refugees have an inherent right of return._


You can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people who were already living there.  That doesn't make any sense. But it does make enemies.




Wolverine1984 said:


> There is no land records that show 90% of Arab ownership.I would very much like to see where you got this information from.
> It's true that the Jews owned about 6 to 8% of the land, however there is no record about the reminder of the land some of the 92% belongs to the Arabs some belonged to absentee landlords in some belonged to the state( British mandate and the time ).
> 
> I think it would be wise to point out that the Jews lived on their 6 to 8% of the land until the war in 1948.
> ...


 I'd say the "initiation" was more mutual than that. 



> _*land ownership statistics from 1945 showed that Arabs owned more land than Jews in every single district of Palestine*, including Jaffa, where Arabs owned 47 percent of the land while Jews owned 39 percent  and Jaffa boasted the highest percentage of Jewish-owned land of any district. In other districts, Arabs owned an even larger portion of the land. At the extreme other end, for instance, in Ramallah, Arabs owned 99 percent of the land. In the whole of Palestine, Arabs owned 85 percent of the land, while Jews owned less than 7 percent, which remained the case up until the time of Israels creation._


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Your knowledge of the law of armed conflict and of history are as poor as your spelling: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


It doesn't take a scholar to know that terrorist groups have no legal standing when it comes to bombing hotels.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

docmauser1 said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > _Land records at the time indicated arabs owned 90% of the land ..._
> ...


I notice you don't provide any evidence to back up your claims.


----------



## Wolverine1984 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > What tyranny?  Israel is the ONLY nation in the entire Middle East with open and fair elections and that respects human rights and that includes the million or so Arabs who are Israeli citizens, allowed seats on the Knesset,  and full citizenship rights.  The only way Arabs are treated differently is that military service is not required for them because of the likelihood they would be in a position of fighting their own blood and kin.  Still Arabs are allowed to serve in the military if they choose to do so.
> ...



You are gravely mistaken. 
Israel only prevents the smuggling of weapons inside the Gaza Strip all other provisions are allowed in.
So your statements about collectively punishing Gaza is totally wrong( unless it counts as punishing when you're not providing them with weapons ).



> And don't give me this democracy bullshit.  The Knesset is busily  enacting apartheid laws that make arabs second class citizens in their  own country.  They have these "jew only" roads; jew only settlements;  and their minister of the interior has publically admitted to saying  there should be segragation between the races.


There is no such thing as a Jew only rode or Jew only settlement, there is however a distinction between citizen and not citizen like in any other country.
Like in any other country, citizens enjoying more rights then non-citizens.
An Arab citizen could drive on any road and live in any settlement he wishes. 
Race is not the factor here, citizenship is.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



Your only solid evidence is that of being illiterate http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Your only solid evidence is that of being illiterate http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


The only thing you know about solid evidence is that you haven't got any.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Your only solid evidence is that of being illiterate http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html
> ...



Solid evidence for your lack of schooling http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


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## docmauser1 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _It was what happened after they immigrated, which started the violence.  80 years prior to that, there was no significant violence between the two groups._


Cool! We know now that "immigration" is an arab agitprop bullshit excuse, and jews have been victims of arab violence all along!


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> You are gravely mistaken.
> Israel only prevents the smuggling of weapons inside the Gaza Strip all other provisions are allowed in.
> So your statements about collectively punishing Gaza is totally wrong( unless it counts as punishing when you're not providing them with weapons ).


Why can't Gaza have weapons?  Are you saying they have no right to defend themselves from aggression?  When they are invaded by a foreign army, they're not allowed to shoot back?

While you're thinking about that, here's what Physician's for Human Rights have to say about the condition in Gaza (caused by the blockade)...



> _Currently 61% of the population in the Gaza Strip, or 973,600 people, suffer from a lack of food security, defined by the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) as the absence of access to sufficient, safe and nutritious food to meet their dietary needs and food preferences for an active and healthy life. Among this population, 94% of the households report a decline in the quality of food purchased over the past year, while 59% report a decline in the amount of food consumed. Dependence on humanitarian aid from the international organizations is also constantly on the rise; Currently, 71 percent of Gaza households rely in some capacity on international humanitarian aid.
> 
> The report attributes high rates of food insecurity to an increase in unemployment and poverty rates, which have gone up by more than 40% in the past three years, as a result of the precarious situation facing Gaza's economy, which is paralyzed by Israeli controls._


This whole "how can you blame Israel" crap really gets old.  Israel is doing some very bad things and nobody seems to have the balls to admit it.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

> Quote: Originally Posted by loinboy
> It was what happened after they immigrated, which started the violence. 80 years prior to that, there was no significant violence between the two groups.



You're allowed to be uneducated. 

Jews are the only indigenous people of Israel dating back 3000 years and verified by the archaeological record.

*Tashbih Sayyed, Muslim Pakistani Scholar, Journalist, Author and Former Editor in Chief of  Our Times, Pakistan Today, and The Muslim World Today*


> Blinded by their anti-Semitism, Arabs ignore the fact that neither are they an indigenous group nor is the Jewish nationhood a new phenomenon in Palestine; the Jewish nation was born during 40 years of wandering in the Sinai more than five thousand years ago and has remained connected with Palestine ever since. Even after the destruction of the last Jewish commonwealth in the first century, the Jewish people maintained their own autonomous political and legal institutions: the Davidic dynasty was preserved in Baghdad until the thirteenth century through the rule of the Exilarch (Resh Galuta), while the return to Zion was incorporated into the most widely practiced Jewish traditions, including the end of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder, as well as in everyday prayers. Thus, Jewish historic rights were kept alive in Jewish historical consciousness.
> 
> It is a matter of record that the Arabs owe their presence in Palestine to the Ottomans who settled Muslim populations as a buffer against Bedouin attacks and Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian ruler who brought Egyptian colonists with his army in the 1830s. And during all those times when Arabs lived under the Ottoman rule, they never showed any desire for national independence.
> 
> ...


 
*PBS: Civilization and the Jews *


> The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to its own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in its own right; it asserted its claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
> PBS - Heritage


 
*Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel* The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum 



> In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
> Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.



* Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel* Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah 



> The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
> The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.



*Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel* The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press



> In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.



*PBS Nova *...


> In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele.  Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.
> 
> The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago
> 
> Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible&#39;s Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Wolverine1984 said:


> There is no such thing as a Jew only rode or Jew only settlement, there is however a distinction between citizen and not citizen like in any other country.
> Like in any other country, citizens enjoying more rights then non-citizens.
> An Arab citizen could drive on any road and live in any settlement he wishes.
> Race is not the factor here, citizenship is.


If there is no "jew only" roads, then what is the "separation wall" separating?

If arabs have the same rights as jews in Israel, then why were 6 of them dragged off a bus and arrested for wanting to go to a "jew only" settlement?


> _On November 15th, Palestinian activists boarded segregated Israeli settler public transport headed to occupied East Jerusalem in an historic act of civil disobedience inspired by the Freedom Riders of the U.S. Civil Rights Movement.
> 
> The six Freedom Riders -- Fadi Quran, Nadeem Al-Sharbate, Badee Dwak, Huwaida Arraf, Basel Al-Araj and Mazin Qumsiyeh -- *chose to board a bus that serves Jewish-only settlements in the West Bank on it's way to Occupied East Jerusalem*, wearing kuffiyehs (Palestinian scarfs) and t-shirts reading 'Justice', 'Freedom', and 'We Shall Overcome'.
> 
> While Israelis are allowed to come and go as they wish in the Occupied Territory&#8212;even to settle in it in contradiction to international law&#8212;* Palestinians' movement in their own land is severely restricted, even criminalized. *This kind of racism and segregation is as abhorrent today as it was 50 years ago in the Jim Crow South. _


Live anywhere, my ass!


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


The US is a law abiding country and follow the rules of international law even if, as Wolverine says, it's a joke. And the US is also the strictest follower of the Accords of the Geneva Conventions. Your lawyering seems to be of the shithouse lawer veriety, as we used to say in the army.


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> You're allowed to be uneducated.
> 
> Jews are the only indigenous people of Israel dating back 3000 years and verified by the archaeological record.


Repeating is not proving.

If I'm so un-educated, why do you always have to use the words of others to make a claim?


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > You are gravely mistaken.
> ...


The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > You're allowed to be uneducated.
> ...



In adidtion to being embarrassingly uneducated, you're mentally ill as reflected in your attempt to post a source in another thread who is a 9/11 truther and a friend of David Duke.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> The US is a law abiding country and follow the rules of international law even if, as Wolverine says, it's a joke. And the US is also the strictest follower of the Accords of the Geneva Conventions. Your lawyering seems to be of the shithouse lawer veriety, as we used to say in the army.


That's what we thought and would all like to think.  But that's not the reality of what has happened in the last 10 years.  We attacked a country that had not attacked us and tried to re-define Geneva Convention terms that have been around since the Magna Carta, just so we wouldn't be prosecuted for torturing people.

And in light of the fact of our practice of renditions and indefinate detentions, your "strictest follower" comment falls a little short.


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Wolverine1984 said:
> 
> 
> > There is no such thing as a Jew only rode or Jew only settlement, there is however a distinction between citizen and not citizen like in any other country.
> ...



Your pointy little head is up your ass.

Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank...


> The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish people to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory [Palestine].   The Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan river, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter, "the Palestine article," which provides that "nothing in the Charter shall be construed ... to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments...."
> 
> The mandate implicitly denies Arab claims to national political rights in the area in favor of the Jews; the mandated territory was in effect reserved to the Jewish people for their self-determination and political development, in acknowledgment of the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land. Lord Curzon, who was then the British Foreign Minister, made this reading of the mandate explicit. There remains simply the theory that the Arab inhabitants of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have an inherent 'natural law' claim to the area. Neither customary international law nor the United Nations Charter acknowledges that every group of people claiming to be a nation has the right to a state of its own."
> Resolved: are the settlements legal? Israeli West Bank policies


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> In adidtion to being embarrassingly uneducated, you're mentally ill as reflected in your attempt to post a source in another thread who is a 9/11 truther and a friend of David Duke.


And you're pretty retarded for saying that a particular website proves Einsteiin didn't call Begin a terrorist and zionists a bunch of fascists.


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Your pointy little head is up your ass.
> 
> Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank...


Your response has nothing to do with what I was talking about.  God, are you clueless!


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## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.


Whether you like it or not, they're the democratically elected government of Gaza.  And that's what governments do, buy guns and ammo to protect their citizens.  Which, BTW, is none of Israel's god-damn business!


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.
> ...



Hamas which controls gaza is designated as a terrorist faction by the US, EU, Canada and Australia.

Now, you know, dummy


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## docmauser1 (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> _If there is no "jew only" roads, then what is the "separation wall" separating?_





loinboy said:


> _If arabs have the same rights as jews in Israel,_


What did palistanians forget in Israel (excluding their dreams of plundering the latter, of course), if they've got their very own palistan with their very own Abu Mazen? It's called one palistan too many, of course.


loinboy said:


> _then why were 6 of them dragged off a bus and arrested for wanting to go to a "jew only" settlement?_


We don't hear about jews "_wanting to go_" to a palistanian-only settlement, do we? So, what's the fuss?


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.
> ...


North Korea has often been referred to as "a nation of criminals." So should the Hamas (terrorist organization) controlled Gaza be referred to as "a nation of thieves."


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



The nazis were "democratically" elected.  Democracy is far more than elections.


----------



## toomuchtime_ (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.
> ...



You are mistaken.  Their term in office expired in 2009, and since then they have refused to allow new elections.  Hamas now holds power in Gaza at the point of a gun and is in no sense the legitimate government of the Palestinian Arabs who live there.


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## Hossfly (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


You could also say Obama was "democratically elected."


----------



## P F Tinmore (Apr 17, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > Hossfly said:
> ...



That is not true. The president has a specified term of four years. Abbas's term in office expired January 9, 2009. However, there are no time limits on the prime minister or cabinet ministers. They stay in office until replaced.


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

P F Tinmore said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



These little fuckers still can't get their shit together after all these years?  The Jews created one of the most advanced countries in the world.

Are Arabs inferior?


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

toomuchtime_ said:


> You are mistaken.  Their term in office expired in 2009, and since then they have refused to allow new elections.  Hamas now holds power in Gaza at the point of a gun and is in no sense the legitimate government of the Palestinian Arabs who live there.


Hmmmm.............that's a little strange.  If you're right, that would mean their term in office only lasted 1 year, since they were elected in 2008.  Doesn't really matter.  The election was democratic and sanctioned by international observers. It was right after that, Israel started the economic blockade of Gaza.  Because they didn't like the results of an election that was none of their god-damn business.  That's how fucked the Israeli's are!


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## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > You are mistaken.  Their term in office expired in 2009, and since then they have refused to allow new elections.  Hamas now holds power in Gaza at the point of a gun and is in no sense the legitimate government of the Palestinian Arabs who live there.
> ...



Israel has a $200 billion GDP, the 40th largest economy in the world and the 30th highest per capita income in the world.

The pals are losers like you


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 17, 2012)

JStone said:


> Israel has a $200 billion GDP, the 40th largest economy in the world and the 30th highest per capita income in the world.
> 
> The pals are losers like you


You talk like a 10 year old!


----------



## JStone (Apr 17, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > Israel has a $200 billion GDP, the 40th largest economy in the world and the 30th highest per capita income in the world.
> ...



You have a low IQ, so, I'm trying to help you.  Such as correcting you on basic spelling http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


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## MJB12741 (Apr 17, 2012)

Hamas has been a blessing for Israel.  Since their election it has been Palestinians killing Palestinians in record numbers while the Israel sit back & keep score of the dead body count between Hamas & Fatah.  Long live Hamas!  





loinboy said:


> toomuchtime_ said:
> 
> 
> > You are mistaken.  Their term in office expired in 2009, and since then they have refused to allow new elections.  Hamas now holds power in Gaza at the point of a gun and is in no sense the legitimate government of the Palestinian Arabs who live there.
> ...


----------



## Billo_Really (Apr 18, 2012)

JStone said:


> You have a low IQ, so, I'm trying to help you.  Such as correcting you on basic spelling http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


You can't even speak for yourself.  You have to use the words of others to give the illusion that you're actually debating a topic.


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## JStone (Apr 18, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > You have a low IQ, so, I'm trying to help you.  Such as correcting you on basic spelling http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html
> ...



No debate that you have a low IQ: http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


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## Billo_Really (Apr 18, 2012)

JStone said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


I bet you suck dick for drug money?


----------



## JStone (Apr 18, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...



You spell those words correctly, no doubt a personal preference  

Other words, not so much http://www.usmessageboard.com/5141405-post489.html


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## ima (Apr 18, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> Hamas has been a blessing for Israel.  Since their election it has been Palestinians killing Palestinians in record numbers while the Israel sit back & keep score of the dead body count between Hamas & Fatah.  Long live Hamas!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So what? Palestinians are slackers, 10,000 Americans die every year from gunshots alone in the US.


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## docmauser1 (Apr 18, 2012)

ima said:


> _So what? Palestinians are slackers, 10,000 Americans die every year from gunshots alone in the US._


Palistanians are having an occupational hazard, of course.


----------



## Hossfly (Apr 18, 2012)

loinboy said:


> JStone said:
> 
> 
> > loinboy said:
> ...


Loinboy gets right to the root of his intellect, don't he?


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 18, 2012)

Yes indeed.  Loinboy sure does stretch the boundaries of man's intellect with such comments as "I bet you suck dick for drug money"?
Heh Heh. 



Hossfly said:


> loinboy said:
> 
> 
> > JStone said:
> ...


----------



## ima (Apr 18, 2012)

JStone, be careful, I think that MJB and Hoss sound interested in your dick sucking business.


----------



## JStone (Apr 18, 2012)

Israel will attack by surprise while the iranians are having sex with their goats as per khomeini. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FS5Xpdu4ELE]Sex with Animals in Islam - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 18, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5t9U9r9Kfs&feature=related]Pedophilia is OK in Islam - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 19, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rjdZ6Pc4mA]Romney: Nuclear Iran is World Problem - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## kirkuki (Apr 20, 2012)

i await the attack on iran , mmmm , hurry the heck up.


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## ima (Apr 20, 2012)

kirkuki said:


> i await the attack on iran , mmmm , hurry the heck up.



A short message from the president of Exxon-Mobil.


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## JStone (Apr 20, 2012)

kirkuki said:


> i await the attack on iran , mmmm , hurry the heck up.



Might you be one of the 72 virgins awaiting them?


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## MJB12741 (Apr 20, 2012)

It's coming.  Won't the star of David look beautiful flying over Tehran?





kirkuki said:


> i await the attack on iran , mmmm , hurry the heck up.


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 20, 2012)

'Don


----------



## ima (Apr 21, 2012)

MJB12741 said:


> It's coming.  Won't the star of David look beautiful flying over Tehran?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nicer than a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv?


----------



## MJB12741 (Apr 21, 2012)

Present day Iran will self destruct from within for the better.  Out with the old & in with the new.

Hope for Iran


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## MJB12741 (Apr 23, 2012)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMJ4TYXDKLc]Iran vs. Israel - No Fear - YouTube[/ame]


----------

