# Callling All 'Holocaust Deniers'!



## PoliticalChic

1. "...researchers at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum began the grim task of documenting all the ghettos, slave labor sites, concentration camps and killing factories that the Nazis set up throughout Europe. 

2. What they have found so far has shocked even scholars steeped in the history of the Holocaust



3. The researchers have cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitlers reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945. 

4. The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought, Hartmut Berghoff, director of the institute, said in an interview after learning of the new data.

5. We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was, he said, but the numbers are unbelievable. 




6. ...camps include not only killing centers but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named care centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel. 

7. Auschwitz and a handful of other concentration camps have come to symbolize the Nazi killing machine in the public consciousness. Likewise, the Nazi system for imprisoning Jewish families in hometown ghettos has become associated with a single site  the Warsaw Ghetto, famous for the 1943 uprising. But these sites, infamous though they are, represent only a minuscule fraction of the entire German network, the new research makes painfully clear. 

8. ...wartime Europe into black clusters of death, torture and slavery  centered in Germany and Poland, but reaching in all directions. 

9. ...estimate that 15 million to 20 million people died or were imprisoned in the sites that they have identified as part of a multivolume encyclopedia.

10. ...documenting the entire scale for the first time, studying where they were located, how they were run, and what their purpose was."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/s...=1&adxnnlx=1362236748-5jy69MPKaw0svfJWxthXZQ&


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## varelse

So a paper published by a half Jew, with a Jewish executive director,  says the numbers of Jews who suffered during WWII -that have been slowly admitted to have been inflated over for decades, even involving a changing of the plaque at the very camp in question to reflect the Jews' revision of their own lies- are now supposedly higher than ever? This based on the claims of a museum designed to vilify our WWII enemy and distract from America's crimes by creating a German boogie man. A museum whose director was a member of the American Jewish Committee...


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## Saigon

Anyone who has ever entered Birkenau has felt something of what the Holocaust really meant - its industrialism, its scale, its dedication to inhumanity and barbarism. 

Few documents can convey the horror or the enormity of the killing. 

Certainly posting this kind of gibberish (Why invite nutcase deniers to comment? What is with the numbers?!) doesn't do a great deal to improve our understanding of perhaps the most traumatic event of the 20th century.


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## MisterBeale

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e12Iu3uX7-s&list=UU2MvXVBURUwTAd30AHyN6Cg&index=1]Vatican Holocaust Files (Gordon Duff) - YouTube[/ame]


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## Gracie

I cannot fathom ANYONE denying it ever existed (the holocaust) and much as it may seem a diss, I also cannot fathom that most of the citizenry (german civilians) KNEW although most claim they had no idea.


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## varelse

The Nazis didn't want to massacre Jews (or anyone else) on wholescale, save perhaps the crippled and diseased. Forced labor was critical to Germany's wart machine and economy, making the laborers a commodity that was not to be wasted. Germany wanted the Jews in Palestine (or anywhere else that wasn't Germany). it was the Jews who wanted the Jews massacred, saw to it they dies, and prevented their safe relocation.

If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by  transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the  Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only  the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people  of Israel. 

Attributed to Ben-Gurion (pre-War 1939) by Martin Gilbert in "Israel was everything" in _The New York Times_ (21 June 1987)
Organized Jewry made the calculation and decided not only to declare war on Germany (and Europe as a whole), but to ensure enough dead Roma, Jews, and others to serve their narrative of the eternal Jewish victim. They didn't even take them in the CCCP, which was  effectively the largest Jewish nation on Earth, as the Soviet elite were overwhelmingly Jewish elites from the US and elsewhere who moved to the CCCP following the Jewish-led revolution to pursue the same ideologies and agendas later put into effect in the communes in Occupied Palestine and the modern Zionist government in the Occupied Areas (although, in the latter, more religious sects have gained much more influence, somewhat weakening the original racialist-communist base).


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## varelse

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCbtYmxF3Ms]At least 75% of all Soviet Commissars were Jewish. - YouTube[/ame]


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## Saigon

> Germany wanted the Jews in Palestine (or anywhere else that wasn't Germany).



Right - that is why they actively prevented them from emigrating there. 

If the Germans had wanted people to work, they wouldn't have needed industrial gas chambers. 

I suggest you visit the camps and take a look around yourself.


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## Saigon

Mister Beale - 

Although talkback radio is usually such a solid and reliable source of objective facts, in this case your caller seems confused. 

The Vatican does not hold the German war files - the German government does, and they are available to researchers and students at Bad Arolsen. They have been open for years.


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## Saigon

> as the Soviet elite were overwhelmingly Jewish elites



Were they?

So of Stalin's inner circle (Politburo etc) in 1939, how many were Jews?

Can we see the names? 

I have them here - but you may believe it more if you post it yourself.


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## varelse

What gas chambers? The one at A-B that's not airtight, has a door that opens inward, has no ventilation system, and shows no traces of the ferrocyanide deposits present in the delousing chambers and anywhere else where cyanide gas was ever used? The one the Soviets admitted to building after the war was over?


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## varelse

Five minutes after I post one list of examples, you demand a list of examples?


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## Saigon

varelse said:


> What gas chambers? The one at A-B that's not airtight, has a door that opens inward, has no ventilation system, and shows no traces of the ferrocyanide deposits present in the delousing chambers and anywhere else where cyanide gas was ever used? The one the Soviets admitted to building after the war was over?



Ha!! You might need to do a little research in Birkenau, pal. The gas chambers were largely destroyed by Allied bombing, so none of the things you allege here could ever have been proven, but we know for a fact how many people were killed there - because German camp records confirm the details. 

Or do you think the Germans were lying?


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## Saigon

varelse said:


> Five minutes after I post one list of examples, you demand a list of examples?



There is no list of examples. 

Of Stalin's inner circle and (members of the Politburo) there twere two Jews - and one of those was the wife of Molotov. 

Stalin's anti-Semitism had already seen most senior Jews shot, arrested ot imprisoned, and this years before he actually start trying to deport the entire Jewish community to Mongolia.


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## varelse

> The most detailed description of Jewish influence in the Bolshevik  'revolution comes from Robert Wilton, the Russian correspondent of The  Times. In 1920 he published a book in French, Les Derniers Jours des  Romanofs, which gave the racial background of all the members of the  Soviet government. (This does not appear in the later English  translation, for some odd reason.) After the publication of this  monumental work, Wilton was ostracised by the press, and he died in  poverty in 1925. He reported that the Central Committee of the Bolshevik  Party was made up as follows:
> 
> NAME 	NATIONALITY
> Bronstein (Trotsky) 	Jew
> Apfelbaum (Zinovief) 	Jew
> Lourie (Larine) 	Jew
> Ouritski 	Jew
> Volodarski 	Jew
> Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) 	Jew
> Smidovitch 	Jew
> Sverdlof (Yankel) 	Jew
> Nakhamkes (Steklof) 	Jew
> Ulyanov (Lenin) 	Russian
> Krylenko 	Russian
> Lounatcharski 	Russian
> 
> "The Council of the People's Commissars comprises the following:
> 
> MINISTRY 	NAME 	NATIONALITY
> President 	Ulyanov (Lenin) 	Russian
> Foreign Affairs 	Tchitcherine 	Russian
> Nationalities 	Djugashvili (Stalin) 	Georgian
> Agriculture 	Protian 	Armenian
> Economic Council 	Lourie (Larine) 	Jew
> Food 	Schlichter 	Jew
> Army & Navy 	Bronstein (Trotsky) 	Jew
> State Control 	Lander 	Jew
> State Lands 	Kauffman 	Jew
> Works 	V. Schmidt 	Jew
> Social Relief 	E. Lelina (Knigissen) 	Jewess
> Public Instruction 	Lounatcharsky 	Russian
> Religions 	Spitzberg 	Jew
> Interior 	Apfelbaum (Zinovief) 	Jew
> Hygiene 	Anvelt 	Jew
> Finance 	Isidore Goukovski 	Jew
> Press 	Volodarski 	Jew
> Elections 	Ouritski 	Jew
> Justice 	I. Steinberg 	Jew
> Refugees 	Fenigstein 	Jew
> Refugees (assist.) 	Savitch 	Jew
> Refugees (assist.) 	Zaslovski 	Jew
> 
> "The following is the list of members of the Central Executive Committee:
> 
> NAME 	NATIONALITY
> Sverdlov (president) 	Jew
> Avanessof (sec.) 	Armenian
> Bruno 	Lett
> Babtchinski 	Jew
> Bukharin 	Russian
> Weinberg 	Jew
> Gailiss 	Jew
> Ganzburg 	Jew
> Danichevski 	Jew
> Starck 	German
> Sachs 	Jew
> Scheinmann 	Jew
> Erdling 	Jew
> Landauer 	Jew
> Linder 	Jew
> Wolach 	Czech
> Dimanstein 	Jew
> Encukidze 	Georgian
> Ermann 	Jew
> Joffe 	Jew
> Karkline 	Jew
> Knigissen 	Jew
> Rosenfeldt (Kamenef) 	Jew
> Apfelbaum (Zinovief) 	Jew
> Krylenko 	Russian
> KrassikofSachs 	Jew
> Kaprik 	Jew
> Kaoul 	Lett
> Ulyanov (lenin) 	Russian
> Latsis 	Jew
> Lander 	Jew
> Lounatcharski 	Russian
> Peterson 	Lett
> Peters 	Lett
> Roudzoutas 	Jew
> Rosine 	Jew
> Smidovitch 	Jew
> Stoutchka 	Lett
> Nakhamkes (Steklof) 	Jew
> Sosnovski 	Jew
> Skrytnik 	Jew
> Bronstein (Trotsky) 	Jew
> Teodorovitch 	Jew
> Terian 	Armenian
> Ouritski 	Jew
> Telechkine 	Russian
> Feldmann 	Jew
> Froumkine 	Jew
> Souriupa 	Ukranian
> Tchavtchevadze 	Georgian
> Scheikmann 	Jew
> Rosental 	Jew
> Achkinazi 	Imeretian
> Karakhane 	Karaim (Jew)
> Rose 	Jew
> Sobelson (Radek) 	Jew
> Sclichter 	Jew
> Schikolini 	Jew
> Chklianski 	Jew
> Levine (Pravdine) 	Jew
> 
> "The following is the list of members of the Extraordinary Commission of Moscow:
> 
> NAME 	NATIONALITY
> Dzerjinski (president) 	Pole
> Peters (vice-president) 	Lett
> Chklovski 	Jew
> Kheifiss 	Jew
> Zeistine 	Jew
> Razmirovitch 	Jew
> Kronberg 	Jew
> Khaikina 	Jewess
> Karlson 	Lett
> Schaumann 	Jew
> Leontovitch 	Jew
> Jacob Goldine 	Jew
> Glaperstein 	Jew
> Kniggisen 	Jew
> Latzis 	Lett
> Schillenkuss 	Jew
> Janson 	Lett
> Rivkine 	Jew
> Antonof 	Russian
> Delafabre 	Jew
> Tsitkine 	Jew
> Roskirovitch 	Jew
> G. Sverdlof 	Jew
> Biesenski 	Jew
> Blioumkine 	Jew
> Alexandrevitch 	Russian
> I. Model 	Jew
> Routenberg 	Jew
> Pines 	Jew
> Sachs 	Jew
> Daybol 	Lett
> Saissoune 	Armenian
> Deylkenen 	Lett
> Liebert 	Jew
> Vogel 	German
> Zakiss 	Lett



Jews and Bolshevism


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## varelse

Saigon said:


> varelse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Five minutes after I post one list of examples, you demand a list of examples?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no list of examples. .
Click to expand...

start at post 7


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## varelse

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LO_xSQOCzw]A Jew David Cole Interviews Dr. Franciszek Piper at Auschwitz and Exposes a Fraud (HD) - YouTube[/ame]


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## Politico

There was a holocaust?


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## Saigon

Vaerlse -

Congratulations. You have just posted a list of people Stalin had shot. 

Brilliant posting.

What you need to try and graps is that the USSR in 1920 was not the USSR of 1940. Lenin was not anti-Semitic. Stalin was. Lenin needed Jewish support against the viciously anti-Semitic Tsars. Stalin did not.


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## varelse

Politico said:


> There was a holocaust?




Many. It's a basic precept of the Jewish faith.

holocaust (n.) 

mid-13c., "sacrifice by fire, burnt offering," from Greek holokauston "a thing wholly burnt," neuter of holokaustos "burned whole," from holos "whole" (see holo-) + kaustos, verbal adjective of kaiein "to burn." Originally a Bible word for "burnt offerings,"especially now, with with the rise of Judaism as a religion of eternal victimhood


given wider sense of "massacre, destruction of a large number of persons" from 1833. The Holocaust "Nazi genocide of European Jews in World War II," first recorded 1957, earlier known in Hebrew as Shoah "catastrophe."


Online Etymology Dictionary




Notice how they don't bother mentioning the Roma or anyone else. Nope, only Jewish lives matter, and only insomuch as they serve the ends of organized Jewry


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## MisterBeale

Gracie said:


> I cannot fathom ANYONE denying it ever existed (the holocaust) and much as it may seem a diss, I also cannot fathom that most of the citizenry (german civilians) KNEW although most claim they had no idea.



Do you think Americans knew or cared how their government was treating the Japanese American citizens during WWII?  Probably not.  And those camps were administered by the military.  Now think about if they were administered by a militarized regime.  

Most people do not deny the holocaust existed, that is an angry canard that is exaggerated by Zionist propaganda.  What people take issue with are the numbers, and the exclusivity of it being just a Jewish "final" solution.  The Nazi's were eugenicists, they were equally opportunity haters.

The fact that a nation fighting a multi-front war against several first world powers, would go out of it's way to purposely waste man power on the extermination of people, when it doesn't suit a purpose is patently absurd.  There is credible scientific evidence that it never occurred.  And when attempts are made to gather more, all efforts are halted and blocked.   The Nazi's wanted to separate them from the population, make sure they did not breed, and work to death anyone that was useful.  But to use energy and man power to liquidate undesirables?  Clearly people do not know how the efficient German's thought or felt, that would be a waste of man power and resources, it is patently absurd.  They would not waste their precious time, energy or resources doing such a thing.  They could just wait till they starved to death.  Remember, they felt these people were as low as animals.  Same way the Jews feel about the Palestinians.

If two notions conflict with each other, obviously one of them is incorrect.  Of course a minority class was oppressed, that is how authority dictatorships achieve power.  But they do not waste resources maintaining their power by exterminating and committing genocide unless there is a mass movement by an indigenous population.  There is no scientific precedent.  In this case, the European Jewish population was as assimilated as the local populations.  So the local populations could not commit genocide like we have other classical examples.

Many of those other facts that the OP listed?  The American military is guilty of much the same things when it "conquers" a nation as well.  War is hell.


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## varelse

Stalin tried to remove all threats to his own power following the revolution, including Trotsky (Jew) and other (primarily Jewish) commissars and Soviets leaders. Such is typical of all such revolutions and violent siezures of power.


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## Saigon

> There is credible scientific evidence that it never occurred.



Um....not there isn't. 

There are some incredibly badly produced blogs and wild theories - but it's nothing a high school student couldn't see through in ten minutes. 

They are invariably riddled with obvious factual errors and deceptions, and it would take some serious effort to be taken in by the likes of key Denier Ernst Gauss (who doesn't actually exist!).


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## Saigon

varelse said:


> Stalin tried to remove all threats to his own power following the revolution, including Trotsky (Jew) and other (primarily Jewish) commissars and Soviets leaders. Such is typical of all such revolutions and violent siezures of power.



Exactly - he purged the Jews. 

So, we know Jews had little power and influence under Stalin. 

Are we done here?

btw. Yes, if you are going to post nonsense like David Cole (!) which even he now admits were bogus then, yes, you will get neg repped by a lot of people. I give pos rep for good posts on any topic - neg rep for garbage.


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## varelse

And Hitler purged- well, pretty much everyone he could. What's your point? They were still in the inner circle and responsible for the overthrow of the government. They just lost the round of betrayals that always follows, just like Trotsky- leader of the Red Army (a position of *much* power and influence).

Every revolution has its own night of long knives. To pretend those people never existed after they were betrayed, sold out, or disposed of, because their existence in unpleasant for your agenda, is dishonest at best.


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## Saigon

Varelse - 

My point is that:

a) Stalin was anti-Semitic. He purged Jews on more than one occasion, most notably with the Doctor's Purge. 

b) Jews held no influence in the Soviet Union during the war years.


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## varelse

Stalin was a megalomaniacal lunatic whose love of power came to mean more to him than any belief or ideology he might have once held, as seems to happen to all tyrants in time.

Commissars remained disproportionately Jewish and foreign, and the fact remains that not only is Communism largely a Jewish invention, but Bolshevism specifically was disproportionately developed and led by Jews. Jews' sense of supremacy infects whatever ideology or system they touch, even when they cast aside almost the entirety of their faith save this sense of supremacy and right to rule. They are a very clannish and tribalistic people.

None of this entire tangent, however, has anything at all to do with the original subject, which is that the numbers of those killed during WWII outside of combat, as a result or warcrimes violence against noncombatants, have been inflated from day One. America and the Soviets wanted to pin all the war's wrongdoing on Germany  to distract from their own. The story has been admitted many times to have been alrgely false, with half the 'death camps' (read: everything on the map that fell into Western, rather than Soviet, hands) being reclassified as 'concentration camps', the number at A-B going from 4 to 1.odd million, and numerous other claims (Jewish soap?) being later admitted to be fabrications or gross exaggerations.


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## Saigon

> not only is Communism largely a Jewish invention



So these guys were all Jewish?

Mao Tse Tung
Fidel Castro
Stalin
Ortega
Lenin
Ceacescu
Honnecker
Tito

Try and post with a little common sense. There has actually never been a Jewish leader in a communist country.


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## Saigon

> which is that the numbers of those killed during WWII outside of combat



....have never been seriously disputed. 

The Nazis murderded 11 million people. It has always been eleven million.


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## varelse

Saigon said:


> not only is Communism largely a Jewish invention
> 
> 
> 
> So these guys were all Jewish?
> 
> Mao Tse Tung
> Fidel Castro
> Stalin
> Ortega
> Lenin
> Ceacescu
> Honnecker
> Tito
> 
> Try and post with a little common sense. There has actually never been a Jewish leader in a communist country.
Click to expand...



Mao and Castro as founders of communist ideology? Really?

Interesting that you didn't think to include Marx and Engels...


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## Saigon

varelse said:


> Mao and Castro as founders of communist ideology? Really?
> 
> Interesting that you didn't think to include Marx and Engels...



Absolutely - Mao and Castro and all of the other leaders mentioned have been crucial in shaping communism. And I could name a dozen others - none of whom would be Jewish. 

Marx aside, Jews have had very little influence or impact on communism. 

As I mentioned earlier, Jews flocked to communism at the time of the Russian revolution seeking respite from the viciously anti-Semitic Tsars. Thus they played a key role in communism for perhaps 15 years or so, but other than that - they have not been much involved. 

You could make a very strong case that Armenians, Azeris...even Tatars played a bigger role in shaping communism in the 20th century.


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## Saigon

P. Chic - 

Great work bringing the nutcase Deniers to this board! Thanks for that!


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## konradv

varelse said:


> So a paper published by a half Jew, with a Jewish executive director,  says the numbers of Jews who suffered during WWII -that have been slowly admitted to have been inflated over for decades, even involving a changing of the plaque at the very camp in question to reflect the Jews' revision of their own lies- are now supposedly higher than ever? This based on the claims of a museum designed to vilify our WWII enemy and distract from America's crimes by creating a German boogie man. A museum whose director was a member of the American Jewish Committee



Evidence of the Holocaust has been found in archives all over Europe.  That would have to be one hell of a conspiracy to produce that much paperwork.  What you're seeing isn't a plot, but a demonstration of German efficiency and documentation.  The Nazis condemned themselves by their own hand.


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## PoliticalChic

Saigon said:


> P. Chic -
> 
> Great work bringing the nutcase Deniers to this board! Thanks for that!



Au contraire....

I haven't brought them to the board....I brought them from the woodwork.


Let's examine those folks.....why and what.

1. The most obvious motivation is a hatred of Jewish folk....possibly a resentment of success, which fits into a Left-wing worldview.

a. Could be based on some personal disagreement(s)....but I tend to give more credence to the former.


2. I don't believe it to be based on a religious bias.....the Church has shied away from the blood libel.


3. I'm betting that for many, it represents an attempt at a macho 'look at me...I take an unpopular view to a far extreme.'

4. I'm guessing that the abject stupidity of actually denying the facts represents a minority contingent.

But, based on the vehemence of some in the thread....I'm going to put up a "Calling Holocaust Deniers....part deux"



Here:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/history/281500-calling-holocaust-deniers-part-deux.html#post6897586


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## editec

> . I'm betting that for many, it represents an attempt at a macho 'look at me...I take an unpopular view to a far extreme.'



I wonder how many here are actual NAZIs versus how many here are just childish trolls?

I point this out as I've known some authentic NAZIs and they were not complete fucking idiots (evil to be sure, but NOT stupid) as are so many of this board's brownshirted nitwit brigade.

After though...incidently none of the NAZIs I every known denied the holcaust happened.

*They were proud of it*


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## Saigon

P. Chic - 

Are you actually trying to encourage them, or are you doing it accidentally?

Dealing with fascists by dismantling their arguments and overwhelming them with facts and evidence is a worthy pastime - but demands a strong knowledge of history and a precise understanding of what Revisionists actually claim.


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## PoliticalChic

Saigon said:


> P. Chic -
> 
> Are you actually trying to encourage them, or are you doing it accidentally?
> 
> Dealing with fascists by dismantling their arguments and overwhelming them with facts and evidence is a worthy pastime - but demands a strong knowledge of history and a precise understanding of what Revisionists actually claim.



Perhaps you're familiar with the "Veronica"....



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoC2cS45ICc]The Matador, Movie Trailer -Documentary- - YouTube[/ame]


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## MHunterB

The Heretical Press Links Page

Ah, yes - Varelse has such an UNBIASED source:  the red cross with the Nazi swastika in a circle at its center is emblematic of what, exactly?  *"Aryan Unity"* and *"Islamic Nationalists" (NOI)* are two of the links touted on the page I've cited....


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## there4eyeM

Hating 'others' is hating self. There is one race, the human race. The Nazis did not kill 'Jews'. They decided there was a separate group that they identified as Jews and tried to exterminate them as well as others. These were people, human beings. To differentiate them in the same way the Nazis did is to join in Nazi propaganda. The Nazis, with their scientifically proven wrong theories, made ghastly errors that resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent people. The crime is against humanity, of which 'Jews' are a part, not apart from.


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## JakeStarkey

And the vermin squeak and mutter in their dark little corners, the vermin deny the creation of their own reason for existence.  The deniers are the nazis of the modern era.


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## namvet

Germany's parliament passed legislation in 1985, making it a crime to deny the extermination of the Jews. In 1994, the law was tightened. Now, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays down the genocide against the Jews faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and no less than the imposition of a fine.

"It affects the agitator who claims the Jews prey on the German people, that they invented the Holocaust for that purpose, that foreigners should all be thrown out and that the discussion should finally be over with," Benz said. "He must be punished because he engages in incitement of the masses, because he slanders the memory of those murdered, because he slanders our fellow citizens."

Austria imposes even tougher penalties for such offences. Historian and Holocaust-denier David Irving, who was recently arrested there, faces up to 20 years in jail.


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## Toronado3800

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. "...researchers at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum began the grim task of documenting all the ghettos, slave labor sites, concentration camps and killing factories that the Nazis set up throughout Europe.
> 
> 2. What they have found so far has shocked even scholars steeped in the history of the Holocaust
> 
> 
> 
> 3. The researchers have cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitlers reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945.
> 
> 4. The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought, Hartmut Berghoff, director of the institute, said in an interview after learning of the new data.
> 
> 5. We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was, he said, but the numbers are unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. ...camps include not only killing centers but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named care centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.
> 
> 7. Auschwitz and a handful of other concentration camps have come to symbolize the Nazi killing machine in the public consciousness. Likewise, the Nazi system for imprisoning Jewish families in hometown ghettos has become associated with a single site  the Warsaw Ghetto, famous for the 1943 uprising. But these sites, infamous though they are, represent only a minuscule fraction of the entire German network, the new research makes painfully clear.
> 
> 8. ...wartime Europe into black clusters of death, torture and slavery  centered in Germany and Poland, but reaching in all directions.
> 
> 9. ...estimate that 15 million to 20 million people died or were imprisoned in the sites that they have identified as part of a multivolume encyclopedia.
> 
> 10. ...documenting the entire scale for the first time, studying where they were located, how they were run, and what their purpose was."
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/s...=1&adxnnlx=1362236748-5jy69MPKaw0svfJWxthXZQ&



Thank you.

I have an Uncle of who has some 4th Cousins left in Germany.  Out of racism or refusal to believe his family would do that or SOMETHING he denies the Holocaust.

Makes me question everything he says.


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## Saigon

JakeStarkey said:


> And the vermin squeak and mutter in their dark little corners, the vermin deny the creation of their own reason for existence.  The deniers are the nazis of the modern era.



Indeed they are, and well said.


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## JakeStarkey

Toronado3800 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "...researchers at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum began the grim task of documenting all the ghettos, slave labor sites, concentration camps and killing factories that the Nazis set up throughout Europe.
> 
> 2. What they have found so far has shocked even scholars steeped in the history of the Holocaust
> 
> 
> 
> 3. The researchers have cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitlers reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945.
> 
> 4. The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought, Hartmut Berghoff, director of the institute, said in an interview after learning of the new data.
> 
> 5. We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was, he said, but the numbers are unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. ...camps include not only killing centers but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named care centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.
> 
> 7. Auschwitz and a handful of other concentration camps have come to symbolize the Nazi killing machine in the public consciousness. Likewise, the Nazi system for imprisoning Jewish families in hometown ghettos has become associated with a single site  the Warsaw Ghetto, famous for the 1943 uprising. But these sites, infamous though they are, represent only a minuscule fraction of the entire German network, the new research makes painfully clear.
> 
> 8. ...wartime Europe into black clusters of death, torture and slavery  centered in Germany and Poland, but reaching in all directions.
> 
> 9. ...estimate that 15 million to 20 million people died or were imprisoned in the sites that they have identified as part of a multivolume encyclopedia.
> 
> 10. ...documenting the entire scale for the first time, studying where they were located, how they were run, and what their purpose was."
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/s...=1&adxnnlx=1362236748-5jy69MPKaw0svfJWxthXZQ&
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> I have an Uncle of who has some 4th Cousins left in Germany.  Out of racism or refusal to believe his family would do that or SOMETHING he denies the Holocaust.
> 
> Makes me question everything he says.
Click to expand...


That's tough when a family member is being so weird.


----------



## PoliticalChic

namvet said:


> Germany's parliament passed legislation in 1985, making it a crime to deny the extermination of the Jews. In 1994, the law was tightened. Now, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays down the genocide against the Jews faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and no less than the imposition of a fine.
> 
> "It affects the agitator who claims the Jews prey on the German people, that they invented the Holocaust for that purpose, that foreigners should all be thrown out and that the discussion should finally be over with," Benz said. "He must be punished because he engages in incitement of the masses, because he slanders the memory of those murdered, because he slanders our fellow citizens."
> 
> Austria imposes even tougher penalties for such offences. Historian and Holocaust-denier David Irving, who was recently arrested there, faces up to 20 years in jail.



It's not clear that you agree or disagree with the German view on 'deniers.'

I strongly dissent from the view that disagreement over facts, and opinions deserve jail time....

....and with the view here that some words need to be politically banned.


As a vet, I'll bet you support the Constitution's demand for freedom of speech.


----------



## Saigon

I'm never sure whether Holocaust Denial should be illegal or not. I can see both sides of the issue. 

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing - but deblierately and manipulating young people is a high price to pay for it. I think it's fairly clear that many Deniers do not believe they have a historical case - it's purely and simply political dishonesty and deceit. 

We see on this thread how easily tricked some people are.


----------



## namvet

PoliticalChic said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Germany's parliament passed legislation in 1985, making it a crime to deny the extermination of the Jews. In 1994, the law was tightened. Now, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays down the genocide against the Jews faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and no less than the imposition of a fine.
> 
> "It affects the agitator who claims the Jews prey on the German people, that they invented the Holocaust for that purpose, that foreigners should all be thrown out and that the discussion should finally be over with," Benz said. "He must be punished because he engages in incitement of the masses, because he slanders the memory of those murdered, because he slanders our fellow citizens."
> 
> Austria imposes even tougher penalties for such offences. Historian and Holocaust-denier David Irving, who was recently arrested there, faces up to 20 years in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not clear that you agree or disagree with the German view on 'deniers.'
> 
> I strongly dissent from the view that disagreement over facts, and opinions deserve jail time....
> 
> ....and with the view here that some words need to be politically banned.
> 
> 
> As a vet, I'll bet you support the Constitution's demand for freedom of speech.
Click to expand...


I do agree with German laws on this. for deniers to walk amoung them is unacceptable and make their country and citizens look bad and guilty.  they put a lawful end to it. as they should. 

as a vet yes your right


----------



## Saigon

Namvet - 

You make a good point. Neo-Nazis do make Germany look very, very bad internationally, and Germany does need to constantly reassure the world that history will not repeat.


----------



## Desperado

The researchers have cataloged some *42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps *throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitler&#8217;s reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945. 
Logistics?  How many German Guards would these Nazi ghettos and camps have?
10 which would mean 425,000 Germans would be working as guards and not as Soldiers.
50 which would mean 2,125,000 Germans would be working as guards and not as Soldiers.
100 which would mean 4,250,000 Germans would be working as guards and not as Soldiers.
No wonder the Germans lost the war, all their soldiers were working as prison guards.


----------



## Saigon

Desperado - 

Many of the guards were actually soldiers. The classic book 'Ordinary Men' by Browning explains this.


----------



## Foxfyre

I had been teaching a course on JudeoChristian history.  After class, when covering the WWII period, one of my students--he later would become a good friend before he died a few years ago--approached me.  He was in the 157th Infantry division that liberated Dachau.  I encouraged him to share and, with tears welling in his eyes, he told me what they found there.  A huge pile of decomposing bodies that that not yet been buried.  Something like 30 railroad cars at the camp, all full of decomposing bodies.  The people who were still alive were in terrible condition, skin and bones, and suffering all manner of diseases.  He said the sights, sounds, smells were the most terrible thing he witnessed in four years of the war, and subsquently two years in Korea.  Something he can never erase from his mind.

Nobody would ever convince him that the Holocaust was a hoax.


----------



## namvet

Eisenhower had the foresight to know someone in the future wold deny this happened. he ordered the camps to be filmed and photographed  

   [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDlBJ26anuA]General Eisenhower and the Documentation of the Holocaust - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## namvet

Saigon said:


> Desperado -
> 
> Many of the guards were actually soldiers. The classic book 'Ordinary Men' by Browning explains this.



yes but many of them willingly participated in the killings and and faced trials at wars end. a lot of them fled to the US where years later they were dicovered and taken back to Germany for trial and execution


----------



## namvet

Foxfyre said:


> I had been teaching a course on JudeoChristian history.  After class, when covering the WWII period, one of my students--he later would become a good friend before he died a few years ago--approached me.  He was in the 157th Infantry division that liberated Dachau.  I encouraged him to share and, with tears welling in his eyes, he told me what they found there.  A huge pile of decomposing bodies that that not yet been buried.  Something like 30 railroad cars at the camp, all full of decomposing bodies.  The people who were still alive were in terrible condition, skin and bones, and suffering all manner of diseases.  He said the sights, sounds, smells were the most terrible thing he witnessed in four years of the war, and subsquently two years in Korea.  Something he can never erase from his mind.
> 
> Nobody would ever convince him that the Holocaust was a hoax.



the 101st airborne found these camps to as many units did as they moved forward. from band of brothers. a true story

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHcJtU9dr6I]Band of Brothers- Liberation of Concentration Camp - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Foxfyre

Hubby just reminded me that my student, our friend, was in the 147th Infantry Regiment, not division, and  he thinks that was part of the 45th Infantry Division.


----------



## Sunni Man

Where there prison work camps in nazi germany - Yes

Where jews rounded up and put in them - Yes

Did many of them die from over work, starvation, and disease - Yes

Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No


----------



## there4eyeM

PoliticalChic said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Germany's parliament passed legislation in 1985, making it a crime to deny the extermination of the Jews. In 1994, the law was tightened. Now, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays down the genocide against the Jews faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and no less than the imposition of a fine.
> 
> "It affects the agitator who claims the Jews prey on the German people, that they invented the Holocaust for that purpose, that foreigners should all be thrown out and that the discussion should finally be over with," Benz said. "He must be punished because he engages in incitement of the masses, because he slanders the memory of those murdered, because he slanders our fellow citizens."
> 
> Austria imposes even tougher penalties for such offences. Historian and Holocaust-denier David Irving, who was recently arrested there, faces up to 20 years in jail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not clear that you agree or disagree with the German view on 'deniers.'
> 
> I strongly dissent from the view that disagreement over facts, and opinions deserve jail time....
> 
> ....and with the view here that some words need to be politically banned.
> 
> 
> As a vet, I'll bet you support the Constitution's demand for freedom of speech.
Click to expand...


Laws against speech are themselves a danger. I believe strongly that the force of ideas and debate is enough to subdue false and slanderous contentions such as these. There is no need for laws controlling words, only education to learn to digest them.


----------



## Saigon

> Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No



Well, I have seen some. 

Go to Birkenau and tell us what you saw.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Where there prison work camps in nazi germany - Yes
> 
> Where jews rounded up and put in them - Yes
> 
> Did many of them die from over work, starvation, and disease - Yes
> 
> Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No





> Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No



yes. it was called Zyklon B, a brand name for a form of Hydrogen Cyanide


----------



## namvet

former nazi guard sent to Germany to stand trial. just one of many

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dlFlRbg_Ww]Accused Nazi Death Camp Guard Arrives in Germany - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Sunni Man

Zyklon B is just part of the bizarre Holohoax fantasy that's believed by gullible people........


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> Where there prison work camps in nazi germany - Yes
> 
> Where jews rounded up and put in them - Yes
> 
> Did many of them die from over work, starvation, and disease - Yes
> 
> Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No



You have flatly lied.

The incontrovertible evidence of Nuremberg guts your reputation for integrity.

You are one of the squeaker vermin living in the corners and shadows, and you are known as such.


----------



## Sunni Man

Quite odd.........

Eisenhowers "Crusade in Europe" is a book of 559 pages.

Churchills "Second World War" totals 4,448 pages.

De Gaulles three-volume "Mémoires de guerre" is 2,054 pages.

Which altogether totals 7,061 pages of memoirs from the allied leaders during WWll .

Yet there is_ not one single sentence _that mentions "gas chambers" or 6 million jews.

Maybe all 3 forgot.....or else it didn't happen.........


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Zyklon B is just part of the bizarre Holohoax fantasy that's believed by gullible people........



its a documented fact jew hater


----------



## Foxfyre

Sunni Man said:


> Where there prison work camps in nazi germany - Yes
> 
> Where jews rounded up and put in them - Yes
> 
> Did many of them die from over work, starvation, and disease - Yes
> 
> Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No



The testimony of those who were there. . . .
The testimony of those who liberated them. . . .
The photographic evidence. . . .
The testimony from some Germans who were there. . . .
The evidence from the German's own record keeping system. . . .

All are such compelling evidence of the existence of the extermination camps that the most dedicated Holocaust denier cannot overcome.


----------



## there4eyeM

Perhaps if the victims had believed it was a hoax, they would not have died.


----------



## there4eyeM

Three authors did not mention something, so it didn't happen.

What category of logic is that?


----------



## Sunni Man

Question:  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail and is irrefutable.

Then why do most countries in Europe and Canada have laws sending people to prison for 5 years if they deny or question certain aspects of the Holocaust?


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Question:  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail and is irrefutable.
> 
> Then why do most countries in Europe and Canada have laws sending people to prison for 5 years if they deny or question certain aspects of the Holocaust?



just answered your own question moron


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> Question:  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail and is irrefutable.
> 
> Then why do most countries in Europe and Canada have laws sending people to prison for 5 years if they deny or question certain aspects of the Holocaust?



Because of vermin in the shadows who squeak, "It never happened."


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^  So much for Free Speech...........


----------



## Chassit

Sunni Man said:


> Question:  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail and is irrefutable.
> 
> Then why do most countries in Europe and Canada have laws sending people to prison for 5 years if they deny or question certain aspects of the Holocaust?



Because there are hate filled people out there that try to convince us to ignore what we see and believe them when they say the Nazis never murdered people systematically.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^  So much for Free Speech...........



why don't you make like a butcher. grab your meat and beat it


----------



## Chassit

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^  So much for Free Speech...........




Yeah well that's why it is not illegal in the US.  To be clear I don't think it is right to make denial illegal.  I just think its idiotic to be a denier.


----------



## Desperado

namvet said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question:  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail and is irrefutable.
> 
> Then why do most countries in Europe and Canada have laws sending people to prison for 5 years if they deny or question certain aspects of the Holocaust?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just answered your own question moron
Click to expand...


When you have to pass laws forbidding even questioning different aspects of the Holocaust, something is very wrong and should raise red flags all over the place.  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail, then there is no reason for any laws that forbid denying or questioning any aspects of the Holocaust.   
An open dialect should be encouraged to eliminate any doubts about the facts of the Holocaust.
What if they had the same laws sending people to prison if they deny or question certain aspects of the Kennedy Assassination?
What if they had the same laws sending people to prison if they deny or question certain aspects of the Moon Landing?
What if they had the same laws sending people to prison if they deny or question certain aspects of the Watergate?


----------



## Sunni Man

Desperado said:


> When you have to pass laws forbidding even questioning different aspects of the Holocaust, something is very wrong and should raise red flags all over the place.  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail, then there is no reason for any laws that forbid denying or questioning any aspects of the Holocaust.
> An open dialect should be encouraged to eliminate any doubts about the facts of the Holocaust.


Exactly!!

What are they trying to hide??..........


----------



## namvet

the infamous Nazi gas van. they loaded inmates in then connected a hose from from the exhaust to the back then drove around for hours. but very inefficient and time consuming






the idea moved on to this






a faster, cheaper and more efficient way. used in all major camps


----------



## JakeStarkey

"They" are to trying to expose the hatred of those who deny the undeniable, those who victimize the victimized, those who hate the truth for the sake of hate.

The question should be whether modern day equivalents of Goebbels and Sutreicher, such as Sunni Man and Desperado, be silenced?  They are willingly and willfully and knowingly defending mass murderers guilty of industrialized mass murder.  They are doing it by deceit and because of hate.  If SM and D were alive and doing this in the early 1940s, they too would be tried for crimes against humanity, and rightfully so.

They and their hate and their deceit are protected only by seven decades and our civilized decency.


----------



## Sunni Man

Millions of Americans deny the Warren Commissions report about the Kennedy assassination.

Maybe we should send those people to prison also?.

It makes as much sense as sending people to prison for denying the Holohoax


----------



## JakeStarkey

sunni man said:


> millions of americans deny the warren commissions report about the kennedy assassination.
> 
> Maybe we should send those people to prison also?.
> 
> It makes as much sense as sending people to prison for denying the holohoax



#78


----------



## Foxfyre

Well the U.S. military and press was there too, and there are no such coercive laws in the United States.  People are permitted to question, deny, disbelieve, or whatever they wish to do here.  But those who were there are quite certain that the Holocaust was real, the ovens were real, the extermination happened, and none will accept a different version of that.

The countries that criminalize Holocaust denial do so on the grounds that such tends to incite violence against Jews.  And in all such countries, the government assigns the rights to the people, including what they may have the right to speak.   They do not have a Constitution that recognizes the unalienable rights of the people that already exist and is intended to protect them.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Millions of Americans deny the Warren Commissions report about the Kennedy assassination.
> 
> Maybe we should send those people to prison also?.
> 
> It makes as much sense as sending people to prison for denying the Holohoax



having trouble staying on topic jew hater???


----------



## Foxfyre

mememe said:


> What does "holocaust denier" mean?
> 
> Is it a person who denies that tens of millions were killed during WW2, or is it a person who denies Jewish monopoly on suffering during WW2?



In this case, it is Sunni (and a few others) denying that the Nazis intentionally tried to exterminate the Jews via gassing or other methods.  Some disbelieve the ovens.  Some disbelieve there were German extermination camps at all.

Those of us who know history, know that all that happened, and not only to the Jews but to mental patients, homosexuals, gypsies, political opponents, and any others the Nazi regime considered undesirable.


----------



## Sunni Man

namvet said:


> the infamous Nazi gas van. they loaded inmates in then connected a hose from from the exhaust to the back then drove around for hours. but very inefficient and time consuming



About as realistic as the Mobile Weapons Vans that Colon Powell showed the UN and claimed Saddam possessed...........


----------



## Chassit

Desperado said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question:  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail and is irrefutable.
> 
> Then why do most countries in Europe and Canada have laws sending people to prison for 5 years if they deny or question certain aspects of the Holocaust?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just answered your own question moron
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you have to pass laws forbidding even questioning different aspects of the Holocaust, something is very wrong and should raise red flags all over the place.  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail, then there is no reason for any laws that forbid denying or questioning any aspects of the Holocaust.
> An open dialect should be encouraged to eliminate any doubts about the facts of the Holocaust.
> What if they had the same laws sending people to prison if they deny or question certain aspects of the Kennedy Assassination?
> What if they had the same laws sending people to prison if they deny or question certain aspects of the Moon Landing?
> What if they had the same laws sending people to prison if they deny or question certain aspects of the Watergate?
Click to expand...


The only place that would have any reason to outlaw such would be the US where such laws would clearly violate the 1st Amendment.   It would mean exactly jack in Austria.


----------



## Desperado

JakeStarkey said:


> The question should be whether modern day equivalents of Goebbels and Sutreicher, such as Sunni Man and Desperado, be silenced?  They are willingly and willfully and knowingly defending mass murderers guilty of industrialized mass murder.  They are doing it by deceit and because of hate.  If SM and D were alive and doing this in the early 1940s, they too would be tried for crimes against humanity, and rightfully so.
> 
> They and their hate and their deceit are protected only by seven decades and our civilized decency.



Show me where I denied anything?  Show me where I defended anyone?
All I did was question the logistics of guarding that many camps and question the need for laws forbidding even questioning different aspects of the Holocaust.
Why do these questions bother you so?


----------



## Chassit

Sunni Man said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> the infamous Nazi gas van. they loaded inmates in then connected a hose from from the exhaust to the back then drove around for hours. but very inefficient and time consuming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About as realistic as the Mobile Weapons Vans that Colon Powell showed the UN and claimed Saddam possessed...........
Click to expand...


We all know how great the 1944 version of photoshop was...


----------



## JakeStarkey

Desperado said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question should be whether modern day equivalents of Goebbels and Sutreicher, such as Sunni Man and Desperado, be silenced?  They are willingly and willfully and knowingly defending mass murderers guilty of industrialized mass murder.  They are doing it by deceit and because of hate.  If SM and D were alive and doing this in the early 1940s, they too would be tried for crimes against humanity, and rightfully so.
> 
> They and their hate and their deceit are protected only by seven decades and our civilized decency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me where I denied anything?  Show me where I defended anyone?
> All I did was question the logistics of guarding that many camps and question the need for laws forbidding even questioning different aspects of the Holocaust.
> Why do these questions bother you so?
Click to expand...


The questions reveal a misshapen mind, such as yours, that threatens the welfare of humanity.  There is no question The Holocaust occurred as evidenced at Nuremberg.  Your questions disturb us because they reveal creatures such as yourself exist.


----------



## Sunni Man

Remember the news reel of Hitler doing the "jig" dance in Paris after the Germans defeated the French?

It was shown all over the world as evidence that he was a crazy man.

But many years later it was revealed to be a hoax.

So yes, they had the technology to fake pictures in the 1940's.........


----------



## JakeStarkey

mememe said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> What does "holocaust denier" mean?
> 
> Is it a person who denies that tens of millions were killed during WW2, or is it a person who denies Jewish monopoly on suffering during WW2?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those of us who know history, know that all that happened, and not only to the Jews but to mental patients, homosexuals, gypsies, political opponents, and any others the Nazi regime considered undesirable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You forgot to include black people and Slavs in your list...
> 
> That's why I am asking, what does "holocaust denier" mean? As it stands, Jews deny "holocaust" to non-Jews. Does it mean that Jews are "holocaust deniers"?
Click to expand...


You need to learn how to frame questions.  The one above is a failure.

Some, not all, Jews argue that 'burnt offering' (holocaust) should belong to the Jewish victims of industrialized mass murder.  They do not deny that untold numbers of non-Jews died as a result of Nazi industrialized mass murder.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> Remember the news reel of Hitler doing the "jig" dance in Paris after the Germans defeated the French?
> 
> It was shown all over the world as evidence that he was a crazy man.
> 
> But many years later it was revealed to be a hoax.
> 
> So yes, they had the technology to fake pictures in the 1940's.........



#91 above


----------



## Desperado

JakeStarkey said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question should be whether modern day equivalents of Goebbels and Sutreicher, such as Sunni Man and Desperado, be silenced?  They are willingly and willfully and knowingly defending mass murderers guilty of industrialized mass murder.  They are doing it by deceit and because of hate.  If SM and D were alive and doing this in the early 1940s, they too would be tried for crimes against humanity, and rightfully so.
> 
> They and their hate and their deceit are protected only by seven decades and our civilized decency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Show me where I denied anything?  Show me where I defended anyone?
> All I did was question the logistics of guarding that many camps and question the need for laws forbidding even questioning different aspects of the Holocaust.
> Why do these questions bother you so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The questions reveal a misshapen mind, such as yours, that threatens the welfare of humanity.  There is no question The Holocaust occurred as evidenced at Nuremberg.  Your questions disturb us because they reveal creatures such as yourself exist.
Click to expand...


wow cool ..... nice to know that my " misshapen mind" can threaten the welfare of humanity. 
I will grant you that a holocaust occurred during WW2, but it was not limited to one religious group.
It should also be heart warming for others to know that creatures such as myself exist, otherwise the world would be filled with creatures like yourself.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Desperado said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me where I denied anything?  Show me where I defended anyone?
> All I did was question the logistics of guarding that many camps and question the need for laws forbidding even questioning different aspects of the Holocaust.
> Why do these questions bother you so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The questions reveal a misshapen mind, such as yours, that threatens the welfare of humanity.  There is no question The Holocaust occurred as evidenced at Nuremberg.  Your questions disturb us because they reveal creatures such as yourself exist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> wow cool ..... nice to know that my " misshapen mind" can threaten the welfare of humanity.
> I will grant you that a holocaust occurred during WW2, but it was not limited to one religious group.
> It should also be heart warming for others to know that creatures such as myself exist, otherwise the world would be filled with creature like yourself.
Click to expand...


#90 above


----------



## Desperado

JakeStarkey said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The questions reveal a misshapen mind, such as yours, that threatens the welfare of humanity.  There is no question The Holocaust occurred as evidenced at Nuremberg.  Your questions disturb us because they reveal creatures such as yourself exist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wow cool ..... nice to know that my " misshapen mind" can threaten the welfare of humanity.
> I will grant you that a holocaust occurred during WW2, but it was not limited to one religious group.
> It should also be heart warming for others to know that creatures such as myself exist, otherwise the world would be filled with creature like yourself.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> #90 above
Click to expand...


Good answer,  it was already in my quote.  I bet you think you are so clever too.
Doing some research to find more questions I can ask that will send you up a wall.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Remember the news reel of Hitler doing the "jig" dance in Paris after the Germans defeated the French?
> 
> It was shown all over the world as evidence that he was a crazy man.
> 
> But many years later it was revealed to be a hoax.
> 
> So yes, they had the technology to fake pictures in the 1940's.........



I filmed that


----------



## Swagger

The people who propagate the whole Holocaust saga and draft laws designed to punish and/or intimidate those that question the official narative are the ones who feed the deniers' agenda. I mean, when you establish a status quo that essentially sanctions the examination of any period of history bar one particular event, you're waving a red rag at a bull. It breeds suspicion. You then compound that suspicion when you punish anyone who dares disseminate an alternative to the official narrative.

Personally speaking I believe that the Holocaust did happen, though it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the figures covering the death toll have been exaggerated by those who stand to gain from such a numerical inflation. But I also think that it's high time we moved-on from the Holocaust.


----------



## Foxfyre

Sunni Man said:


> Remember the news reel of Hitler doing the "jig" dance in Paris after the Germans defeated the French?
> 
> It was shown all over the world as evidence that he was a crazy man.
> 
> But many years later it was revealed to be a hoax.
> 
> So yes, they had the technology to fake pictures in the 1940's.........



Certainly they had the capability to loop footage back then, which is what a Canadian producer did with that clip.  And yes, it was used dishonestly.

And of course they had the ability to stage a photo back then.  Ability to photoshop it like can be done now, not so much.

They didn't have the ability to infuse the memories of my friend who arrive with the 47th Regiment at Dachau and other eye witness accounts by people who were imprisoned there or who arrived to help with the liberation.  The reason there were still so many decomposing bodies in the camp and in the boxcars at the camp was because the Germans had run out of coal for the ovens and were awaiting a new shipment.

The camp was overcrowded because in advance of the Allied armies, the Germans had been frantically transferring prisoners from sub camps to Dachau.

The horrors there were real, however much the Holocaust deniers want them not to be.


----------



## Sunni Man

The mythical "6 million" figure of the so called holocaust has become a sacred number in the collective consciousness of the western nations.

But in reality, the number is more like two hundred thousand people at the most.........


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> The mythical "6 million" figure of the so called holocaust has become a sacred number in the collective consciousness of the western nations.
> 
> But in reality, the number is more like two hundred thousand people at the most.........



the numbers are real. your the myth


----------



## Foxfyre

Swagger said:


> The people who propagate the whole Holocaust saga and draft laws designed to punish and/or intimidate those that question the official narative are the ones who feed the deniers' agenda. I mean, when you establish a status quo that essentially sanctions the examination of any period of history bar one particular event, you're waving a red rag at a bull. It breeds suspicion. You then compound that suspicion when you punish anyone who dares disseminate an alternative to the official narrative.
> 
> Personally speaking I believe that the Holocaust did happen, though it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the figures covering the death toll have been exaggerated by those who stand to gain from such a numerical inflation. But I also think that it's high time we moved-on from the Holocaust.



I don't know whether the numbers cited are accurate or not.  I didn't count them and I depend on recorded history for such information as does everybody else living these days.

I strongly disagree that we should move on from the Holocaust any more than we should move on from Pearl Harbor or the bombing of Britain or the insanity of war in general.  Unless we remain aware of what horrors humankind is capable of inflicting on people, and the forces that drive and allow them to do it, we only set ourselves up for more of the same.


----------



## namvet

Foxfyre said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who propagate the whole Holocaust saga and draft laws designed to punish and/or intimidate those that question the official narative are the ones who feed the deniers' agenda. I mean, when you establish a status quo that essentially sanctions the examination of any period of history bar one particular event, you're waving a red rag at a bull. It breeds suspicion. You then compound that suspicion when you punish anyone who dares disseminate an alternative to the official narrative.
> 
> Personally speaking I believe that the Holocaust did happen, though it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the figures covering the death toll have been exaggerated by those who stand to gain from such a numerical inflation. But I also think that it's high time we moved-on from the Holocaust.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whether the numbers cited are accurate or not.  I didn't count them and I depend on recorded history for such information as does everybody else living these days.
> 
> I strongly disagree that we should move on from the Holocaust any more than we should move on from Pearl Harbor or the bombing of Britain or the insanity of war in general.  Unless we remain aware of what horrors humankind is capable of inflicting on people, and the forces that drive and allow them to do it, we only set ourselves up for more of the same.
Click to expand...


the 6 million figure was an est of the number of jews on the continent when the war began. myself i thinks much much higher IMO


----------



## namvet

the problem these deniers have is to many witness's


----------



## namvet

mememe said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> the problem these deniers have is to many witness's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that "victims of holocaust" include:
> 
> 1. Those European Jews who were killed during WW2 by all means, not only by burning;
> 2. Those European Jews who died of natural causes;
> 3. Those European Jews who migrated out of Europe (they were alive, just no longer lived in Europe);
> 4. Those European Jews who were not of Judaistic persuasion; were counted as part of Jewish population of Europe prior to WW2, but not counted as "Jews" after WW2 when zionists insisted on their definition of "Jewishness"?
Click to expand...


yes i do, your point???


----------



## Swagger

Foxfyre said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who propagate the whole Holocaust saga and draft laws designed to punish and/or intimidate those that question the official narative are the ones who feed the deniers' agenda. I mean, when you establish a status quo that essentially sanctions the examination of any period of history bar one particular event, you're waving a red rag at a bull. It breeds suspicion. You then compound that suspicion when you punish anyone who dares disseminate an alternative to the official narrative.
> 
> Personally speaking I believe that the Holocaust did happen, though it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the figures covering the death toll have been exaggerated by those who stand to gain from such a numerical inflation. But I also think that it's high time we moved-on from the Holocaust.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whether the numbers cited are accurate or not.  I didn't count them and I depend on recorded history for such information as does everybody else living these days.
> 
> I strongly disagree that we should move on from the Holocaust any more than we should move on from Pearl Harbor or the bombing of Britain or the insanity of war in general.  Unless we remain aware of what horrors humankind is capable of inflicting on people, and the forces that drive and allow them to do it, we only set ourselves up for more of the same.
Click to expand...


Forgive me if I've lead you to believe otherwise, but I'm not suggesting that we just 'drop' the Holocaust and refuse to acknowledge it. Denying the right to remember these events is, in my opinion, tantamount to denying those who refuse to accept the standard narrative of the Holocaust their right to do so. 

I don't know what the case is in the States, but in parts of Europe the Holocaust's legacy has manifested itself in the form of an emotional hostage crisis. It's thrust in the faces of people who weren't in any way, shape or form complicit in the suffering endured by those who perished in (or survived) the death camps. And perpetuating the "never again" message subliminally implies that there are still people who are to blame. In the increasing absence of actual camp guards and leading figures in the Third Reich, those on the receiving end of that message over seventy years after the event can be forgiven for believing it's aimed at them. And that breeds further resentment.


----------



## varelse

konradv said:


> varelse said:
> 
> 
> 
> So a paper published by a  half Jew, with a Jewish executive director,  says the numbers of Jews  who suffered during WWII -that have been slowly admitted to have been  inflated over for decades, even involving a changing of the plaque at  the very camp in question to reflect the Jews' revision of their own  lies- are now supposedly higher than ever? This based on the claims of a  museum designed to vilify our WWII enemy and distract from America's  crimes by creating a German boogie man. A museum whose director was a member of the American Jewish Committee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Evidence of the Holocaust has been found in archives all over Europe.   That would have to be one hell of a conspiracy to produce that much  paperwork.  What you're seeing isn't a plot, but a demonstration of  German efficiency and documentation.  The Nazis condemned themselves by  their own hand.
Click to expand...


Uh-huh, and for decades every reliable source and respectable  historian has admitted that the original numbers were inflated, thereby  devaluing the lives of those who suffered, for political aims. Now a  small cadre of leftist Jews who are known to be of dubious honesty (eg:  the NYT) and something to gain (funding and attention for the museums)  are claiming the numbers are bigger than ever... and you swallow their  claims without the slightest skepticism or expectation of actual  evidence to support their claims.





MHunterB said:


> The Heretical Press Links Page
> 
> Ah, yes - Varelse has such an UNBIASED source:  the red cross with the  Nazi swastika in a circle at its center is emblematic of what, exactly?   *"Aryan Unity"* and *"Islamic Nationalists" (NOI)* are two of the links touted on the page I've cited....


No more or less biased or interested than the source in the OP.



namvet said:


> Germany's parliament passed legislation in 1985,  making it a crime to deny the extermination of the Jews. In 1994, the  law was tightened. Now, anyone who publicly endorses, denies or plays  down the genocide against the Jews faces a maximum penalty of five years  in jail and no less than the imposition of a fine.
> 
> "It affects the agitator who claims the Jews prey on the German people,  that they invented the Holocaust for that purpose, that foreigners  should all be thrown out and that the discussion should finally be over  with," Benz said. "He must be punished because he engages in incitement  of the masses, because he slanders the memory of those murdered, because  he slanders our fellow citizens."
> 
> Austria imposes even tougher penalties for such offences. Historian and  Holocaust-denier David Irving, who was recently arrested there, faces up  to 20 years in jail.




The only reason to make it illegal to ask questions, is if the  answers would be too inconvenient for the official story. Kinda like why  Manning's acts were criminal- the information was potentially harmful.



Sunni Man said:


> Where there prison work camps in nazi germany - Yes
> 
> Where jews rounded up and put in them - Yes
> 
> Did many of them die from over work, starvation, and disease - Yes
> 
> Were they extermination camps with gas chambers - No


Did abuses occur? Yes, just like in Andersonville or Abu Graihb

Is war hell? yes

Was Hitler dumb enough to wipe out the source of forced labor that kept the war machines going? No

Did anyone in Europe or the US give two shits about the Jews? no

Did  David Ben Gurion or organized Jewry around the world care about the  lives of those Jews- let alone Roma and others- who died? No

Were numbers inflated for political purposes? yes

Is  it long past time for an honest evaluation of the facts without all the  political bullshit, by parties that are as disinterested possible? Yes

Do  inflating the numbers to make the events bad enough devalue the lives  of those who died because you feel their deaths don't mean enough  without a few million more dead? Yes



JakeStarkey said:


> The incontrovertible evidence of Nuremberg guts your reputation for integrity.



Like Hoess' torture 'confession' and jewish soap and lamp shades, which were later admitted to have been fabrications? 



Chassit said:


> We all know how great the 1944 version of photoshop was...


Good enough for Stalin to make many people disappear from photos after  they were purged or place a pile of corpses into another photo.


----------



## Chassit

Sunni Man said:


> Remember the news reel of Hitler doing the "jig" dance in Paris after the Germans defeated the French?
> 
> It was shown all over the world as evidence that he was a crazy man.
> 
> But many years later it was revealed to be a hoax.
> 
> So yes, they had the technology to fake pictures in the 1940's.........



Said fakes are easily detected using modern technology.


----------



## Sunni Man

What disturbes me is that the so called holocaust is such a big deal in the U.S. and every city has a Holocaust Museum although it took place during a war in Europe.

Yet the American Indian suffered a much worse fate and there are basically no museums in most cities to recognize their almost total genocide...........


----------



## varelse

Sunni Man said:


> What disturbes me is that the so called holocaust is such a big deal in the U.S. and every city has a Holocaust Museum although it took place during a war in Europe.
> 
> Yet the American Indian suffered a much worse fate and there are basically no museums in most cities to recognize their almost total genocide...........


We're Americans. It's different when we do it. That's how Nationalism works.


----------



## namvet

mememe said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know that "victims of holocaust" include:
> 
> 1. Those European Jews who were killed during WW2 by all means, not only by burning;
> 2. Those European Jews who died of natural causes;
> 3. Those European Jews who migrated out of Europe (they were alive, just no longer lived in Europe);
> 4. Those European Jews who were not of Judaistic persuasion; were counted as part of Jewish population of Europe prior to WW2, but not counted as "Jews" after WW2 when zionists insisted on their definition of "Jewishness"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes i do, your point???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is: do Jews have the right to deny non-Jews their inclusion into the "victims of holocaust"? Are Jews "holocaust deniers"?
Click to expand...


if your being loaded on a cattle and sent to a death camp do you have time to worry about non jews??? and your saying jews are deniers. well ???


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> What disturbes me is that the so called holocaust is such a big deal in the U.S. and every city has a Holocaust Museum although it took place during a war in Europe.
> 
> Yet the American Indian suffered a much worse fate and there are basically no museums in most cities to recognize their almost total genocide...........



JFK. don't forget JFK. ever hear of wounded knee???


----------



## Desperado

Sunni Man said:


> What disturbes me is that the so called holocaust is such a big deal in the U.S. and every city has a Holocaust Museum although it took place during a war in Europe.


Even sadder was the fact that a WW2 Memorial in Washington was not built until April 29, 2004 almost 11 years AFTER the Holocaust Museum opened on April 22, 1993.
Why did the US government give more value to building the Holocaust Museum than the WW2 Memorial in Washington?


----------



## Unkotare

Swagger said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The people who propagate the whole Holocaust saga and draft laws designed to punish and/or intimidate those that question the official narative are the ones who feed the deniers' agenda. I mean, when you establish a status quo that essentially sanctions the examination of any period of history bar one particular event, you're waving a red rag at a bull. It breeds suspicion. You then compound that suspicion when you punish anyone who dares disseminate an alternative to the official narrative.
> 
> Personally speaking I believe that the Holocaust did happen, though it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the figures covering the death toll have been exaggerated by those who stand to gain from such a numerical inflation. But I also think that it's high time we moved-on from the Holocaust.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know whether the numbers cited are accurate or not.  I didn't count them and I depend on recorded history for such information as does everybody else living these days.
> 
> I strongly disagree that we should move on from the Holocaust any more than we should move on from Pearl Harbor or the bombing of Britain or the insanity of war in general.  Unless we remain aware of what horrors humankind is capable of inflicting on people, and the forces that drive and allow them to do it, we only set ourselves up for more of the same.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Forgive me if I've lead you to believe otherwise, but I'm not suggesting that we just 'drop' the Holocaust and refuse to acknowledge it. Denying the right to remember these events is, in my opinion, tantamount to denying those who refuse to accept the standard narrative of the Holocaust their right to do so.
> 
> I don't know what the case is in the States, but in parts of Europe the Holocaust's legacy has manifested itself in the form of an emotional hostage crisis. It's thrust in the faces of people who weren't in any way, shape or form complicit in the suffering endured by those who perished in (or survived) the death camps. And perpetuating the "never again" message subliminally implies that there are still people who are to blame. In the increasing absence of actual camp guards and leading figures in the Third Reich, those on the receiving end of that message over seventy years after the event can be forgiven for believing it's aimed at them. And that breeds further resentment.
Click to expand...


This is the same kind of lame, idiotic excuse that single-toothed, sister-marrying, sheet-wearing racists try to use when they feel frustrated over the fact that decent society doesn't embrace their running around the trailer park in nothing but their Confederate flag underwear screaming the N word and barking nonsense about history they don't understand. There are several of them that frequent this site. You know who you are.


----------



## namvet

mememe said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> if your being loaded on a cattle and sent to a death camp do you have time to worry about non jews??? and your saying jews are deniers. well ???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you of an opinion that that was the fate of Jews exclusively?????!!!!!!!!!
> 
> What about non-Jews who were in the same camps as Jews given the same treatment?
Click to expand...


jump in a cattle car and take the ride, then ask me


----------



## Unkotare

Sunni Man said:


> What disturbes me is that the so called holocaust is such a big deal in the U.S. and every city has a Holocaust Museum although it took place during a war in Europe.
> 
> Yet the American Indian suffered a much worse fate and there are basically no museums in most cities to recognize their almost total genocide...........



Are transparent attempts at misdirection like this outlined in your little deniers handbook? Try not to be so clumsy about it next time.


----------



## namvet

mememe said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you of an opinion that that was the fate of Jews exclusively?????!!!!!!!!!
> 
> What about non-Jews who were in the same camps as Jews given the same treatment?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jump in a cattle car and take the ride, then ask me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You did not answer the question:
> 
> What about non-Jews who were in the same camps as Jews given the same treatment?
Click to expand...


I won't till you take the ride


----------



## Gracie

Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? A resounding NO. Point is, there was a holocaust. It did happen. Saying it didn't won't solve a damn thing, nor asking how many or how less than originally said were such and such amount.  It happened. And none of the atrocities committed in this world out weigh the other. All are just as horrendous.


----------



## namvet

mememe said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> I won't till you take the ride
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you agree with the Jews who deny non-Jews the right to be considered "victims of holocaust".
> 
> But you don't know how to explain your position of a "holocaust denier", thus your ridiculous suggestion that someone who dare to ask you questions should "take a ride" into the concentration camp.
Click to expand...


jump in


----------



## namvet

mememe said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? A resounding NO. Point is, there was a holocaust. It did happen. Saying it didn't won't solve a damn thing, nor asking how many or how less than originally said were such and such amount.  It happened. And none of the atrocities committed in this world out weigh the other. All are just as horrendous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It happened exclusively to Jews?!
> 
> Is that your position?
> 
> And if not, why only Jews are considered "victims"?! On what grounds?
Click to expand...


what's your point???


----------



## Chassit

mememe said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> what's your point???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already stated my point in answer to your identical question few posts back.
> 
> What, your brain trained by decades of propaganda just can't take in that not only Jews were "victims of holocaust"?
Click to expand...


There are people who think only Jewish folks died in the Holocaust?


----------



## namvet

mememe said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you agree with the Jews who deny non-Jews the right to be considered "victims of holocaust".
> 
> But you don't know how to explain your position of a "holocaust denier", thus your ridiculous suggestion that someone who dare to ask you questions should "take a ride" into the concentration camp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jump in
> 
> ]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As I said, you are a "holocaust denier".
Click to expand...


but of course. that's why I have so many jewish friends


----------



## MHunterB

Desperado said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Question:  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail and is irrefutable.
> 
> Then why do most countries in Europe and Canada have laws sending people to prison for 5 years if they deny or question certain aspects of the Holocaust?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just answered your own question moron
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When you have to pass laws forbidding even questioning different aspects of the Holocaust, something is very wrong and should raise red flags all over the place.  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail, then there is no reason for any laws that forbid denying or questioning any aspects of the Holocaust.
> An open dialect should be encouraged to eliminate any doubts about the facts of the Holocaust.
> What if they had the same laws sending people to prison if they deny or question certain aspects of the Kennedy Assassination?
> What if they had the same laws sending people to prison if they deny or question certain aspects of the Moon Landing?
> What if they had the same laws sending people to prison if they deny or question certain aspects of the Watergate?
Click to expand...


*No such law exists in the US - so it's useless and worthless to speculate about it.*


----------



## JakeStarkey

mememe said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some, not all, Jews argue that 'burnt offering' (holocaust) should belong to the Jewish victims of industrialized mass murder.  They do not deny that untold numbers of non-Jews died as a result of Nazi industrialized mass murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but the official number of "holocaust victims" stands at 6 million.
> 
> All 6 million were BURNT???!!!
> 
> Than, how would you explain that those SHOT in Baby Yar (USSR) were included into the "victims of holocaust"?
> 
> How would you explain that those killed as a result of BOMBINGS were included into the "victims of holocaust"?
> 
> How would you explain that those who MIGRATED out of Europe were included into the "victims of holocaust"?
Click to expand...


I am not playing fool's games with you, kiddo.  #91 above.  You are done here.


----------



## JakeStarkey

mememe said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The mythical "6 million" figure of the so called holocaust has become a sacred number in the collective consciousness of the western nations.
> 
> But in reality, the number is more like two hundred thousand people at the most.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the numbers are real. your the myth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, the number is real. Numbers always are. The trick is in how the numbers are made.
> 
> In this case, "victims of holocaust" include:
> 
> 1. Those European Jews who were killed during WW2 by all means, not only by burning;
> 2. Those European Jews who died of natural causes;
> 3. Those European Jews who migrated out of Europe (they were alive, just no longer lived in Europe);
> 4. Those European Jews who were not of Judaistic persuasion; were counted as part of Jewish population of Europe prior to WW2, but not counted as "Jews" after WW2 when zionists insisted on their definition of "Jewishness".
Click to expand...


#91 above


----------



## JakeStarkey

varelse said:


> SNIP



#91 above


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> What disturbes me is that the so called holocaust is such a big deal in the U.S. and every city has a Holocaust Museum although it took place during a war in Europe.
> 
> Yet the American Indian suffered a much worse fate and there are basically no museums in most cities to recognize their almost total genocide...........



This is the only profound, worthwhile comment you have made in months if not years.

Kudos.


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you have to pass laws forbidding even questioning different aspects of the Holocaust, something is very wrong and should raise red flags all over the place.  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail, then there is no reason for any laws that forbid denying or questioning any aspects of the Holocaust.
> An open dialect should be encouraged to eliminate any doubts about the facts of the Holocaust.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly!!
> 
> What are they trying to hide??..........
Click to expand...


*We're attempting to have that 'dialogue' now - but you're throwing up idiotic smokescreen BS like the above and rejecting the huge mounds of evidence supporting 'the official account'*


----------



## JakeStarkey

mememe said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? A resounding NO. Point is, there was a holocaust. It did happen. Saying it didn't won't solve a damn thing, nor asking how many or how less than originally said were such and such amount.  It happened. And none of the atrocities committed in this world out weigh the other. All are just as horrendous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It happened exclusively to Jews?!
> 
> Is that your position?
> 
> And if not, why only Jews are considered "victims"?! On what grounds?
Click to expand...


Your point does not matter.


----------



## JakeStarkey

The official account is (1) the Holocuaust occured, (2) millions upon millions died, (3) Jews and non-Jews, and (4) deniers get no respect because they deserve none.


----------



## JakeStarkey

mememe said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong, but the official number of "holocaust victims" stands at 6 million.
> 
> All 6 million were BURNT???!!!
> 
> Than, how would you explain that those SHOT in Baby Yar (USSR) were included into the "victims of holocaust"?
> 
> How would you explain that those killed as a result of BOMBINGS were included into the "victims of holocaust"?
> 
> How would you explain that those who MIGRATED out of Europe were included into the "victims of holocaust"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not playing fool's games with you, kiddo.  #91 above.  You are done here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And I am not playing games with you.
> 
> I asked you few very straight forward questions, please answer them!
> 
> *the official number of "holocaust victims" stands at 6 million.
> 
> All 6 million were BURNT???!!!
> 
> Than, how would you explain that those SHOT in Baby Yar (USSR) were included into the "victims of holocaust"?
> 
> How would you explain that those killed as a result of BOMBINGS were included into the "victims of holocaust"?
> 
> How would you explain that those who MIGRATED out of Europe were included into the "victims of holocaust"?*
Click to expand...


Your questions remain immaterial because their inaccuracies demean the incredibly evil immensity of the Holocaust.


----------



## MHunterB

JakeStarkey said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> What disturbes me is that the so called holocaust is such a big deal in the U.S. and every city has a Holocaust Museum although it took place during a war in Europe.
> 
> Yet the American Indian suffered a much worse fate and there are basically no museums in most cities to recognize their almost total genocide...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the only profound, worthwhile comment you have made in months if not years.
> 
> Kudos.
Click to expand...


Interesting point.  Perhaps it's because the US efforts to commit genocide were much more successful since they included *cultural* genocide of kidnapping NA children into government schools, and/or adopting them into white Christian families?  So that there were few NA groups left with enough people to organize and try to fund such memorials?

Another factor might be that it was the US Government - and not enemies of it! - which was the author of NA suffering?

And the whole 'pan-NA' movement isn't very old, and still concerned with securing rights of those NA peoples still living.  



Another factor would be that the 1/3 of Jews worldwide who were targeted for murder by the Germans had relatives in the US who had only one way to memorialize them.

And yet another factor might be that US Jews felt safe enough, full citizens of this nation, that they believed such memorials would still be available to visit in a couple of hundred years - UNlike countless Jewish communities all across Europe.....


I have two friends who are NA and Jewish:  I think I'll ask them the same question, and see what insight they may have into 'internal' cultural reasons.  One of 'em's a retired prof of cultural anthropology and I think he would know better than most.


----------



## mememe

JakeStarkey said:


> Your point does not matter.



But your point does.

So, why do you deny non-Jews the right to be considered "victims of holocaust"?


----------



## JakeStarkey

I can best answer you this way, as I responded to a colleague about folks like you: "Our survival does depend on the goodness of others, and that goodness is buttressed by the Rule of Law.  One of the great horrors of the Nazi era remains the rewriting and revising of German law to accomplish the goals of extinguishing their ,enemies,.  That unfortunately defines the policy of many involved in the Holocaust denial conspiracy today."  Such as you, the Deniers, are the enemies of the good in humanity.


----------



## Sunni Man

It always amuses me that so many American citizens get all worked up over an alleged historical event that basically has nothing to do with our nation...........


----------



## JakeStarkey

mememe said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can best answer you this way, as I responded to a colleague about folks like you: .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ask you to give me your opinion about my persona.
> 
> I asked you to answer few questions which you failed to do. OK'... I understand that your brain cooked by your propaganda refuses to think.
> 
> But answer me at least this simple one: why do you and the official "holocaust" ideologists deny non-Jews the right to be counted as "victims of holocaust"?
Click to expand...


Your question has no meaning in terms of the truthful enormity of the Holocaust.

Here is what you cut off so that we have it all in context: "I can best answer you this way, as I responded to a colleague about folks like you: "Our survival does depend on the goodness of others, and that goodness is buttressed by the Rule of Law. One of the great horrors of the Nazi era remains the rewriting and revising of German law to accomplish the goals of extinguishing their ,enemies,. That unfortunately defines the policy of many involved in the Holocaust denial conspiracy today." Such as you, the Deniers, are the enemies of the good in humanity."


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> It always amuses me that so many American citizens get all worked up over an alleged historical event that basically has nothing to do with our nation...........





> alleged historical event


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> It always amuses me that so many American citizens get all worked up over an alleged historical event that basically has nothing to do with our nation...........



Your statement is why you are considered a no information tool of a stupid philosophy.


----------



## Unkotare

Sunni Man said:


> It always amuses me that so many American citizens get all worked up over an alleged historical event that basically has nothing to do with our nation...........




A statement like that proves that you are:

1) a hateful idiot

2) an immoral cur

3) not really an American at all


----------



## Sunni Man

JakeStarkey said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> It always amuses me that so many American citizens get all worked up over an alleged historical event that basically has nothing to do with our nation...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your statement is why you are considered a no information tool of a stupid philosophy.
Click to expand...

I am an American citizen born and raised.

Pay my taxes, vote in elections, active in the community, coached school sports, give money to charities, etc.

So why pass judgement on me as a human being based on my belief, or disbelief, on _one _ historical event?

Isn't that a very intolerant and bigoted way to judge people?  .........


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> It always amuses me that so many American citizens get all worked up over an alleged historical event that basically has nothing to do with our nation...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your statement is why you are considered a no information tool of a stupid philosophy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am an American citizen born and raised.
> 
> Pay my taxes, vote in elections, active in the community, coached school sports, give money to charities, etc.
> 
> So why pass judgement on me as a human being based on my belief, or disbelief, on _one _ historical event?
> 
> Isn't that a very intolerant and bigoted way to judge people?  .........
Click to expand...







its playing just for you


----------



## JakeStarkey

mememe said:


> Why do you and the official "holocaust" ideologists deny non-Jews the right to be counted as "victims of holocaust"?



Here is what you cut off so that we have it all in context: "I can best answer you this way, as I responded to a colleague about folks like you: "Our survival does depend on the goodness of others, and that goodness is buttressed by the Rule of Law. One of the great horrors of the Nazi era remains the rewriting and revising of German law to accomplish the goals of extinguishing their ,enemies,. That unfortunately defines the policy of many involved in the Holocaust denial conspiracy today." Such as you, the Deniers, are the enemies of the good in humanity."


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> It always amuses me that so many American citizens get all worked up over an alleged historical event that basically has nothing to do with our nation...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your statement is why you are considered a no information tool of a stupid philosophy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am an American citizen born and raised.
> 
> Pay my taxes, vote in elections, active in the community, coached school sports, give money to charities, etc.
> 
> So why pass judgement on me as a human being based on my belief, or disbelief, on _one _ historical event?
> 
> Isn't that a very intolerant and bigoted way to judge people?  .........
Click to expand...


Other than you have passed an ignoble judgement on yourself, #157 answers you perfectly.


----------



## Sunni Man

Unkotare said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> It always amuses me that so many American citizens get all worked up over an alleged historical event that basically has nothing to do with our nation...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A statement like that proves that you are:
> 
> 1) a hateful idiot
> 
> 2) an immoral cur
> 
> 3) not really an American at all
Click to expand...

In your warped mind; how does not believing in a supposed historical event make person #1) hateful, and #2) immoral?

And #3) So the ultimate test for being an America citizen is belief in the Holocaust??   .........


----------



## Political Junky

Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1945, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander, anticipated that someday an attempt would be made to recharacterize the Nazi crimes as propaganda and took steps against it:
The same day[18] I saw my first horror camp. It was near the town of Gotha. I have never been able to describe my emotional reactions when I first came face to face with indisputable evidence of Nazi brutality and ruthless disregard of every shred of decency. Up to that time I had known about it only generally or through secondary sources. I am certain however, that I have never at any time experienced an equal sense of shock.
I visited every nook and cranny of the camp because I felt it my duty to be in a position from then on to testify at first hand about these things in case there ever grew up at home the belief or assumption that "the stories of Nazi brutality were just propaganda". Some members of the visiting party were unable to go through with the ordeal. I not only did so but as soon as I returned to Patton's headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and the British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.[19]
Eisenhower, upon finding the victims of the death camps, ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead. He wrote the following to General Marshall after visiting a German internment camp near Gotha, Germany:
The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they [there] were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said that he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to "propaganda."[20]


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> It always amuses me that so many American citizens get all worked up over an alleged historical event that basically has nothing to do with our nation...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A statement like that proves that you are:
> 
> 1) a hateful idiot
> 
> 2) an immoral cur
> 
> 3) not really an American at all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In your warped mind; how does not believing in a supposed historical event make person #1) hateful, and #2) immoral?
> 
> And #3) So the ultimate test for being an America citizen is belief in the Holocaust??   .........
Click to expand...


Only doltish folks like you.  We believe in the Declaration of Independence, the U. S. Constitution, the democratic system, the Rule of Law, separation of church and state, and that all folks are equal, Jew and Muslim alike.  Amen.


----------



## Unkotare

Sunni Man said:


> So why pass judgement on me as a human being based on my belief, or disbelief, on _one _ historical event?







Because it reveals your character, scum.


----------



## Unkotare

Sunni Man said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> It always amuses me that so many American citizens get all worked up over an alleged historical event that basically has nothing to do with our nation...........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A statement like that proves that you are:
> 
> 1) a hateful idiot
> 
> 2) an immoral cur
> 
> 3) not really an American at all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In your warped mind; how does not believing in a supposed historical event make person #1) hateful, and #2) immoral?
> 
> And #3) So the ultimate test for being an America citizen is belief in the Holocaust??   .........
Click to expand...




The fact that you can't even understand any of the above 3 proves just how un-American you really are. You're a disgrace. I understand that you are trying too hard to be what you imagine your adopted faith wants you to be, but it's no excuse at all.


----------



## Sunni Man

Sad that Americans are almost forced by the liberal/ progressive PC police to believe in the holocaust myth which is no different different than believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy............


----------



## Unkotare

Get out of my country, scumbag. Shit like you should not soil our Republic.


----------



## Sunni Man

I guess I judge people by a different standard.

Are they honest in business, do the treat treat people with respect, is their word good, can you depend on them when in need, are they kind to strangers, etc.

Whether they believe or disbelieve in the so called Holocaust is irrelevant..........


----------



## Unkotare

Sunni Man said:


> I guess I judge people by a different standard.





I don't give a shit what standard non-Americans like you use. You are a vile, filthy dog in any case.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> Sad that Americans are almost forced by the liberal/ progressive PC police to believe in the holocaust myth which is no different different than believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy............



. . . or Allah?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> I guess I judge people by a different standard.
> 
> Are they honest in business, do the treat treat people with respect, is their word good, can you depend on them when in need, are they kind to strangers, etc.
> 
> Whether they believe or disbelieve in the so called Holocaust is irrelevant..........



Belief in what actually happened in the Holocaust will affect your honesty in business and how you respectfully treat people, are you kind to strangers.  Believing the truth of it and acting on it makes one a far better person that one would be otherwise.  Holocaust denial reveals the bestial side of human nature.


----------



## Sunni Man

JakeStarkey said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I judge people by a different standard.
> 
> Are they honest in business, do the treat treat people with respect, is their word good, can you depend on them when in need, are they kind to strangers, etc.
> 
> Whether they believe or disbelieve in the so called Holocaust is irrelevant..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belief in what actually happened in the Holocaust will affect your honesty in business and how you respectfully treat people, are you kind to strangers.  Believing the truth of it and acting on it makes one a far better person that one would be otherwise.  Holocaust denial reveals the bestial side of human nature.
Click to expand...

Nope, the subject of the alleged holocaust never comes up in my business or my personal life.

So it has no affect on me..........


----------



## Unkotare

Run along, scum. You are no American and you are beneath notice. Just get the fuck out of my country as soon as possible.


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^  "our" country......my fellow American citizen...........


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I judge people by a different standard.
> 
> Are they honest in business, do the treat treat people with respect, is their word good, can you depend on them when in need, are they kind to strangers, etc.
> 
> Whether they believe or disbelieve in the so called Holocaust is irrelevant..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belief in what actually happened in the Holocaust will affect your honesty in business and how you respectfully treat people, are you kind to strangers.  Believing the truth of it and acting on it makes one a far better person that one would be otherwise.  Holocaust denial reveals the bestial side of human nature.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nope, the subject of the alleged holocaust never comes up in my business or my personal life.
> 
> So it has no affect on me..........
Click to expand...


Yes, it does, because your sickness about it infects your entire moral, emotional, and spiritual being.  You live its denial so deeply that it corrupts you completely.


----------



## Zona

varelse said:


> So a paper published by a half Jew, with a Jewish executive director,  says the numbers of Jews who suffered during WWII -that have been slowly admitted to have been inflated over for decades, even involving a changing of the plaque at the very camp in question to reflect the Jews' revision of their own lies- are now supposedly higher than ever? This based on the claims of a museum designed to vilify our WWII enemy and distract from America's crimes by creating a German boogie man. A museum whose director was a member of the American Jewish Committee...



So how many millions were killed in your opion.  You seem to konw some things.


----------



## Zona

varelse said:


> The Nazis didn't want to massacre Jews (or anyone else) on wholescale, save perhaps the crippled and diseased. Forced labor was critical to Germany's wart machine and economy, making the laborers a commodity that was not to be wasted. Germany wanted the Jews in Palestine (or anywhere else that wasn't Germany). *it was the Jews who wanted the Jews massacred,* saw to it they dies, and prevented their safe relocation.
> 
> If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by  transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the  Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only  the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people  of Israel.
> 
> Attributed to Ben-Gurion (pre-War 1939) by Martin Gilbert in "Israel was everything" in _The New York Times_ (21 June 1987)
> Organized Jewry made the calculation and decided not only to declare war on Germany (and Europe as a whole), but to ensure enough dead Roma, Jews, and others to serve their narrative of the eternal Jewish victim. They didn't even take them in the CCCP, which was  effectively the largest Jewish nation on Earth, as the Soviet elite were overwhelmingly Jewish elites from the US and elsewhere who moved to the CCCP following the Jewish-led revolution to pursue the same ideologies and agendas later put into effect in the communes in Occupied Palestine and the modern Zionist government in the Occupied Areas (although, in the latter, more religious sects have gained much more influence, somewhat weakening the original racialist-communist base).



So it was the Jews fault?  Wow.


----------



## varelse

Zona said:


> So it was the Jews fault?  Wow.


Organized Jewry felt it an acceptable sacrifice. I refer you to the comments of David Ben Gurion- better half the Jews in Germany die than they all escape to the UK.


----------



## MHunterB

"Organized"  Jewry?   What a very strange expression!


----------



## SAYIT

varelse said:


> The Nazis didn't want to massacre Jews (or anyone else) on wholescale, save perhaps the crippled and diseased. Forced labor was critical to Germany's wart machine and economy, making the laborers a commodity that was not to be wasted. Germany wanted the Jews in Palestine (or anywhere else that wasn't Germany). it was the Jews who wanted the Jews massacred, saw to it they dies, and prevented their safe relocation.



That semiliterate screed is the result of too many drugs and too much Stormfront.
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste." Carry on.


----------



## SAYIT

varelse said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it was the Jews fault?  Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Organized Jewry felt it an acceptable sacrifice. I refer you to the comments of David Ben Gurion- better half the Jews in Germany die than they all escape to the UK.
Click to expand...


If, as you claim, the "Nazis didn't want to massacre Jews (or anyone else) on wholescale," what was the sacrifice "organized Jewry" was risking?


----------



## SAYIT

Sunni Man said:


> Desperado said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you have to pass laws forbidding even questioning different aspects of the Holocaust, something is very wrong and should raise red flags all over the place.  If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail, then there is no reason for any laws that forbid denying or questioning any aspects of the Holocaust.
> An open dialect should be encouraged to eliminate any doubts about the facts of the Holocaust.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly!!
> 
> What are they trying to hide??..........
Click to expand...


Here in America we have no laws which forbid Holocaust Denial. The Internet affords you the opportunity to mingle with like-minded Nazis. The certainty of ridicule and ostracization, perhaps even by your own family and friends, keeps you from doing so publicly. Most Americans just don't like Nazis.


----------



## Sunni Man

Denial of certain aspects of the so called holocaust is not an indication of affiliation or support of nazism...........


----------



## JakeStarkey

varelse said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it was the Jews fault?  Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Organized Jewry felt it an acceptable sacrifice. I refer you to the comments of David Ben Gurion- better half the Jews in Germany die than they all escape to the UK.
Click to expand...


Need the cite, friend.  Talk about an out of context, no informed comment.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Sunni Man said:


> Denial of certain aspects of the so called holocaust is not an indication of affiliation or support of nazism...........



Yup, of course it is.  Placed in context with clear cheer leading for radical jihad, any Holocaust denial identifies those willingly and knowingly and voluntarily opposed to the principles of the U. S. Constitution.

Holocaust denial and the start of the new week are not a combination for me to be concerned with.  I leave you all to it.


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^^  So holocaust denial equals opposition to the Constitution?? ........


----------



## editec

Just remember...

without IBM, the holocaust would not have been possible.


----------



## varelse

MHunterB said:


> "Organized"  Jewry?   What a very strange expression!




World Zionist Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

World Zionist Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First Zionist Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

American Israel Public Affairs Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



SAYIT said:


> varelse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it was the Jews fault?  Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Organized Jewry felt it an acceptable sacrifice. I refer you to the  comments of David Ben Gurion- better half the Jews in Germany die than  they all escape to the UK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If, as you claim, the "Nazis didn't want to massacre Jews (or anyone  else) on wholescale," what was the sacrifice "organized Jewry" was  risking?
Click to expand...

Germany tried  encouraging- then forcing- Jews to leave under peaceful  terms. Those who were part Jew could even serve in the military  during  the war, with the Fuhrer's signature, and earn a place in the new Reich.

Organized  Jewry saw to it that Jews from Germany were not accepted by any nation  and pushed Germany toward forceful removal of Jews in order to serve the  Jewish narrative of eternal victimization and serve the Zionist agenda-  which they did, as evidenced by the fact that today they can carry out  ethnic cleansing in the name of racial nationalism- the same thing  Germany did- and you idiots rush to their defense.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/07/the-zionist-nazi-collaboration/
They did make one mistake- JudenStaat really means 'Jew State', not 'Jews' State'


The  only reason Hitler didn't accept the Zionists offer of  alliance was  his preexisting alliance with several Muslim nations, who he thought  would feel betrayed is he allied with the Jews as well.






editec said:


> Just remember...
> 
> without IBM, the holocaust would not have been possible.





Or Ford...

Also, Fanta exists because Coca-Cola wanted to sell soda to Nazis

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Nazi-Nexus-Corporate-Connections-Holocaust/dp/0914153099]Nazi Nexus: America&#39;s Corporate Connections to Hitler&#39;s Holocaust: Edwin Black: 9780914153092: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/IBM-Holocaust-Strategic-Alliance-Corporation-Expanded/dp/0914153277/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y]IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America&#39;s Most Powerful Corporation-Expanded Edition: Edwin Black: 9780914153276: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]


----------



## namvet

varelse said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it was the Jews fault?  Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Organized Jewry felt it an acceptable sacrifice. I refer you to the comments of David Ben Gurion- better half the Jews in Germany die than they all escape to the UK.
Click to expand...


say what??? let's see this alleged "Organized Jewry "


----------



## varelse

scroll up, oh smart one


----------



## Sunni Man

namvet said:


> varelse said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it was the Jews fault?  Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Organized Jewry felt it an acceptable sacrifice. I refer you to the comments of David Ben Gurion- better half the Jews in Germany die than they all escape to the UK.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> say what??? let's see this alleged "Organized Jewry "
Click to expand...

In the U.S. it goes by the name AIPAC  .........


----------



## MHunterB

OK, so you want to cite a math teacher as an authoritative author on a topic in history.  I'm under-impressed.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> varelse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Organized Jewry felt it an acceptable sacrifice. I refer you to the comments of David Ben Gurion- better half the Jews in Germany die than they all escape to the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> say what??? let's see this alleged "Organized Jewry "
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In the U.S. it goes by the name AIPAC  .........
Click to expand...


right. so they had a AIPAC rep  in the camps.


----------



## namvet

great Denier clips​
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWJPD0E-d5E]November 1945 German hanging - YouTube[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqf7fW49OPw]Execution of Ion Antonescu 1946 - YouTube[/ame]

ill post as many as i can find. now this is entertainment !!!​


----------



## varelse

Moscow Trials - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is footage of soviet show trials and executions, also. Doesn't prove anything other than a show trial happened and accused were killed.

I noticed you never addressed the nuremburg show trials and the 'evidence' that's been admitted to have been false- jewish soap, anyone?


----------



## SAYIT

varelse said:


> SAYIT said:
> 
> 
> 
> If, as you claim, the "Nazis didn't want to massacre Jews (or anyone  else) on wholescale," what was the sacrifice "organized Jewry" was  risking?
> 
> 
> 
> Germany tried  encouraging- then forcing- Jews to leave under peaceful  terms. Those who were part Jew could even serve in the military  during  the war, with the Fuhrer's signature, and earn a place in the new Reich.
> 
> Organized  Jewry saw to it that Jews from Germany were not accepted by any nation  and pushed Germany toward forceful removal of Jews in order to serve the  Jewish narrative of eternal victimization and serve the Zionist agenda-  which they did, as evidenced by the fact that today they can carry out  ethnic cleansing in the name of racial nationalism- the same thing  Germany did- and you idiots rush to their defense.
> 
> http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/07/the-zionist-nazi-collaboration/
> They did make one mistake- JudenStaat really means 'Jew State', not 'Jews' State'
Click to expand...


You are a veritable fountain of Nazi POV. The opinion piece above from someone named William James Martin contains false translations of Ben Gurion quotes and no citations. Your opinions are based on baseless Nazi BS. In other words, worthless BS from like-minded Nazis. Woohoo!


----------



## varelse

Nazi?
What's that?

A National Socialist?


> *Zionism**,* Jewish nationalist movement that has had as its goal the creation and support of a Jewish national state


Zionism (nationalistic movement) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia


> A *kibbutz* (Hebrew: &#1511;&#1460;&#1489;&#1468;&#1493;&#1468;&#1509; / &#1511;&#1497;&#1489;&#1493;&#1509;, lit. "gathering, clustering"; plural _*kibbutzim*_) is a collective community in Israel that was traditionally based on agriculture. Today, farming has been partly supplanted by other economic branches, including industrial plants and high-tech enterprises.[1] Kibbutzim began as utopian communities, a combination of socialism and Zionism.


\
Kibbutz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## varelse

​


----------



## Sunni Man

varelse said:


> ​


^^^ 2 sides of the same coin..........


----------



## namvet

a muzzie inspecting nazi troops......hmmm wonder what his name is


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^^  The man's name is Shlomo Finkelstein.........


----------



## varelse

> *Lehi* (Hebrew pronunciation: [&#712;le&#967;i]; Hebrew: &#1500;&#1495;"&#1497; &#8211; &#1500;&#1493;&#1495;&#1502;&#1497; &#1495;&#1512;&#1493;&#1514; &#1497;&#1513;&#1512;&#1488;&#1500;* _Lohamei Herut Israel - Lehi_, "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel - Lehi"), commonly referred to in English as the *Stern Gang*,[8] was a militant Zionist group founded by Avraham ("Yair") Stern in the British Mandate of Palestine.[9] Its avowed aim was forcibly evicting the British authorities from Palestine, allowing unrestricted immigration of Jews and the formation of a Jewish state. It was initially called the *National Military Organization in Israel*,[10] upon being founded in August 1940, but was renamed Lehi one month later.[11] Lehi split from the Irgun in 1940. Stern declared that he incorporated elements of both the left and the right[2]
> During World War II, Lehi initially sought alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany,  offering to fight alongside them against the British in return for the  transfer of all Jews from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.[2]  On the belief that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than  Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis.[2]


Lehi (group) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Late in 1940, Lehi, having identified a common interest between the  intentions of the new German order and Jewish national aspirations,  proposed forming an alliance in World War II with Nazi Germany.[38]  It offered assistance in transferring the Jews of Europe to Palestine,  in return for Germany's help in expelling Britain from Mandatory  Palestine.[_citation needed_] Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik went to Beirut to meet German official Werner Otto von Hentig (who also was involved with the Haavara or Transfer Agreement, which had been transferring German Jews and their funds to Palestine since 1933)


----------



## namvet

he puked when he saw his handiwork .....what a pussy


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^^  The man's name is Shlomo Finkelstein.........



wrong. which is standard for you


----------



## namvet

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjk34r7OSkM]Nazi Collaborators - The Grand Mufti - Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Sunni Man

"Bradley later wrote about the day: "The smell of death overwhelmed us." Patton, whose reputation for toughness was legendary, was overcome. He refused to enter a room where the bodies of naked men who had starved to death were piled, saying "he would get sick if he did so," Eisenhower reported."


----------



## varelse




----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> "Bradley later wrote about the day: "The smell of death overwhelmed us." Patton, whose reputation for toughness was legendary, was overcome. He refused to enter a room where the bodies of naked men who had starved to death were piled, saying "he would get sick if he did so," Eisenhower reported."



so you admit there was a holocaust. bow slowly and leave


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

PoliticalChic said:


> 1. "...researchers at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum began the grim task of documenting all the ghettos, slave labor sites, concentration camps and killing factories that the Nazis set up throughout Europe.
> 
> 2. What they have found so far has shocked even scholars steeped in the history of the Holocaust
> 
> 
> 
> 3. The researchers have cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitlers reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945.
> 
> 4. The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought, Hartmut Berghoff, director of the institute, said in an interview after learning of the new data.
> 
> 5. We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was, he said, but the numbers are unbelievable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. ...camps include not only killing centers but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named care centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.
> 
> 7. Auschwitz and a handful of other concentration camps have come to symbolize the Nazi killing machine in the public consciousness. Likewise, the Nazi system for imprisoning Jewish families in hometown ghettos has become associated with a single site  the Warsaw Ghetto, famous for the 1943 uprising. But these sites, infamous though they are, represent only a minuscule fraction of the entire German network, the new research makes painfully clear.
> 
> 8. ...wartime Europe into black clusters of death, torture and slavery  centered in Germany and Poland, but reaching in all directions.
> 
> 9. ...estimate that 15 million to 20 million people died or were imprisoned in the sites that they have identified as part of a multivolume encyclopedia.
> 
> 10. ...documenting the entire scale for the first time, studying where they were located, how they were run, and what their purpose was."
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/s...=1&adxnnlx=1362236748-5jy69MPKaw0svfJWxthXZQ&



It is horrific news.  It just keeps getting worse.  Thanks for posting this thread. It is too important to miss.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> "Bradley later wrote about the day: "The smell of death overwhelmed us." Patton, whose reputation for toughness was legendary, was overcome. He refused to enter a room where the bodies of naked men who had starved to death were piled, saying "he would get sick if he did so," Eisenhower reported."



How do you feel, Sunni man, knowing the grand mufti of Islam was Hitlers closest friend and confidante?  Does it embarrass you?  Does it embarrass you that the world knows Islam holds Mein Kampf as the second most important book in Islam after the Qu'ran?  Does the idealogy of Islam which calls for the deaths of all Christians and Jews who do not bow to Islam to be executed disturb you? 

How do you reconcile your desire to go to heaven one day with following a religion that is most assuredly guaranteed to keep you out?  Any idea?  - Jeremiah


----------



## Sunni Man

namvet said:


> so you admit there was a holocaust. bow slowly and leave


I have always said there were work camps and many prisoners died from over work and starvation.

But there wasn't any gas chambers or mass exterminations.

Plus, neither Eisenhower, Patton, or Bradley, ever mentioned gas chambers or something called the holocaust..........


----------



## varelse




----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Mel Merlmestein won a lawsuit proving there was gas chambers and was paid damages for the lie that they didn't exist.   You obviously missed that bit of history, Sunni Man.  

Do you find it difficult to keep it under wraps what your religion has planned for a future holocaust against the Jews this time?  Or is that not a concern for you?  I'm wondering what happens when you realise it is satan you've been bowing down 5 times a day to rather than the One True God who created this universe and calls the Jews and Christians His Children.  Suicide won't be an option, you know.    - Jeremiah


----------



## varelse

A-B was nothing more or less than another case of Andersonville. Malnutrition and disease due in large part to Allied bombing of supply lines and the same abuses by individuals that popped up at Abu-Graihb or any other prison led to horrific scenes of death and suffering.

That, however, does not a systematic extermination make.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

For those of you who do not understand the importance of the Jewish homeland Israel to the Jews?  Take a closer look at these photographs.  Israel was birthed out of the ovens of Auchswitz.  Therefore the Jews who now live there will never give it up.  The cost was too high.  THEY WILL NEVER GIVE UP THEIR HOMELAND NOR SHOULD THEY.  LONG LIVE ISRAEL.  - Jeremiah

As Sure as the Lord Lives, let all who bless the Jews and Israel today be blessed mightily and all those who curse Israel and the Jews today be under a curse.  Mightily.  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ let it be done even today.  Amen.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Long Live Israel!!!  

- Jeremiah


----------



## varelse

Zionism originated _before_ WWII.



Jeremiah said:


> For those of you who do not understand the  importance of the Jewish homeland Israel to the Jews?  Take a closer  look at these photographs.  Israel was birthed out of the ovens of  Auchswitz.


 


 The *First Zionist Congress* (Hebrew: &#1492;&#1511;&#1493;&#1504;&#1490;&#1512;&#1505; &#1492;&#1510;&#1497;&#1493;&#1504;&#1497; &#1492;&#1512;&#1488;&#1513;&#1493;&#1503;*) was the inaugural congress of the Zionist Organization (ZO) (to become the World Zionist Organization (WZO) in 1960) held in Basel (Basle), Switzerland, from August 29 to August 31, 1897



Enough of your Jewish propaganda. The facts prove your lies for what they are.


----------



## namvet

Eisenhower was so disgusted by this he refused to show up at the surrender. instead sending a staff member


----------



## Sunni Man

Did we go to war with Germany in order to help the jews?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

varelse said:


> Zionism originated _before_ WWII.
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> For those of you who do not understand the  importance of the Jewish homeland Israel to the Jews?  Take a closer  look at these photographs.  Israel was birthed out of the ovens of  Auchswitz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *First Zionist Congress* (Hebrew: &#1492;&#1511;&#1493;&#1504;&#1490;&#1512;&#1505; &#1492;&#1510;&#1497;&#1493;&#1504;&#1497; &#1492;&#1512;&#1488;&#1513;&#1493;&#1503;*) was the inaugural congress of the Zionist Organization (ZO) (to become the World Zionist Organization (WZO) in 1960) held in Basel (Basle), Switzerland, from August 29 to August 31, 1897
> 
> 
> 
> Enough of your Jewish propaganda. The facts prove your lies for what they are.
Click to expand...


I have not lied about anything.  It is you who is attempting to promote propaganda and as a Christian I have a duty to defend those who cannot speak up for themselves.  It is scriptural.  The holocaust victims cannot speak up for themselves here.  I will never be silent about it until the end of the age comes and even then I will never forget.   - Jeremiah


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Did we go to war with Germany in order to help the jews?



Did the Grand Mufti of Islam befriend Hitler in order to help the Jews?  Answer that and I will answer your question.  


- Jeremiah


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> so you admit there was a holocaust. bow slowly and leave
> 
> 
> 
> I have always said there were work camps and many prisoners died from over work and starvation.
> 
> But there wasn't any gas chambers or mass exterminations.
> 
> Plus, neither Eisenhower, Patton, or Bradley, ever mentioned gas chambers or something called the holocaust..........
Click to expand...


wrong again.  as usual.


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> Did we go to war with Germany in order to help the jews?



NO. 

 It's well documented that 'we'  - in the form of Congress - refused to relax immigration quotas to allow Jewish refugees into the US.

  It's well documented that 'we' -  in the form of college professors all over the US - declined to protest the mass dismissal of Jewish academics in Germany, and did nothing to assist their hapless colleagues to relocate as things during the '30's got ever worse.

And it's also well-documented that 'we' - in the form of US State Dep't official policy - concocted all manner of obstacles to prevent Jews who were American citizens from bringing over any of their relatives from Europe to escape the growing abuses against them by the Nazis.


----------



## namvet

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did we go to war with Germany in order to help the jews?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did the Grand Mufti of Islam befriend Hitler in order to help the Jews?  Answer that and I will answer your question.
> 
> 
> - Jeremiah
Click to expand...


no. his mission was to hunt down the jews for hitler's death camps

if you check you'll find Hitler declared war on us


----------



## Sunni Man

The ovens the zionists claim was used to burn up the jews were too small to have been used for more that one body at a time.






When in reality the true use of the ovens was to make bread for the camp guards and the inmates.


----------



## MHunterB

Funny that Varelse should allude to Andersonville in its efforts to exonerate the Nazis.  Wirtz was executed for war crimes in 1865.

If such treatment of captured military personnel is 'war crimes', like treatment of civilians is 'crimes against humanity' - the 'depraved indifference' to their suffering was certainly present.


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> The ovens the zionists claim was used to burn up the jews were too small to have been used for more that one body at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When in reality the true us of the ovens was to make bread for the camp guards and the inmates.




And all that greasy smoke coming from the crematoria chimneys was what, exactly?


----------



## Sunni Man

Duh.....When you bake bread over an open fire you create smoke.........   

And no, it wasn't a crematoria


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> The ovens the zionists claim was used to burn up the jews were too small to have been used for more that one body at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When in reality the true use of the ovens was to make bread for the camp guards and the inmates.



climb in. ill close the door liar


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Duh.....When you bake bread over an open fire you create smoke.........
> 
> And no, it wasn't a crematoria



Yes it was and you have placed yourself under a curse from G-d Almighty for speaking of the holocaust in such a disrespectful manner.  You do realize this I hope.  Why would anyone in their right mind ask for trouble with G-d?  Are you Meshuganah??  

 - Jeremiah


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> The ovens the zionists claim was used to burn up the jews were too small to have been used for more that one body at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When in reality the true use of the ovens was to make bread for the camp guards and the inmates.



Your intentional lies have put you directly under the judgment of G-d Almighty, Sunni man. 

  - Jeremiah


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

namvet said:


> a muzzie inspecting nazi troops......hmmm wonder what his name is



.......and people are still surprised to learn that Hitlers book, Mein Kampf is the Number One Best Seller in the Muslim World right after the Koran.  Wonder no more.


----------



## Sunni Man

Jeremiah said:


> Your intentional lies have put you directly under the judgment of G-d Almighty, Sunni man.
> 
> - Jeremiah


^^^^   Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged."

Luke 6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.


----------



## namvet

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ovens the zionists claim was used to burn up the jews were too small to have been used for more that one body at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When in reality the true use of the ovens was to make bread for the camp guards and the inmates.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your intentional lies have put you directly under the judgment of G-d Almighty, Sunni man.
> 
> - Jeremiah
Click to expand...


he is a self proclaimed Nazi. in one ear and out the other


----------



## namvet

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAAHqbv8nIU]Auschwitz: The Nazi and the Final Solution (1/5) - YouTube[/ame]

*the jews were not gassed huh???*​


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your intentional lies have put you directly under the judgment of G-d Almighty, Sunni man.
> 
> - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^   Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged."
> 
> Luke 6:37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Click to expand...


God tells the righteous to warn the wicked to repent of their sins.  I have warned you that you are calling down the judgment of G-d upon your own head by cursing the memory of the Jews deceased in the holocaust.  It is scriptural to do so as God commands the believer ( Christians are the True Believers referred to in the Bib-e )  to speak out against evil.   What you have done is utterly evil, Sunni man.  Considering the source of your religion it isn't any suprise the fruit is rotten.  

I warned you, you ignored the warning.  Now you are under the curse of Almighty G-d today over it.  Do not accuse me in order to justify your iniquity before G-d.  You think I am kidding?  Wait and see.     - Jeremiah


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^  Thanks for the warning.........


----------



## Gracie

Bread? BREAD??? I gotta admit..I am gobsmacked at the idiocy I see from time to time here. Or, if not stupidity, it is flat out refusal to see truth.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man's bread. need butter???


----------



## Sunni Man




----------



## namvet

Sunni Man's bakery (sunniman.com) curb side or home delivery. includes skulls ribs and legs. condiments included. check his weekend specials (bread optional)


----------



## Sunni Man




----------



## Book of Jeremiah

You are under a curse, Sunni man.  Very foolish to do what you are doing.  Very.


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^  Broken record..........


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


>



a Jew hating website. for Nazi's only. keep up your membership Adolph


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^ Lighten up Poindexter......it's only a cartoon.........


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^ Lighten up Poindexter......it's only a cartoon.........



actually your a cartoon buffoon


----------



## Gracie

Sunni is not worthy of my efforts so let him live in ostrich land with his 78 virgins.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^  Broken record..........



You are under a curse and when the reality of it starts crashing in on you it will indeed be as if a broken record reminds you of my words.  Yes.   You are correct in that regard.  

-Jeremiah


----------



## Sunni Man

Actually, it's 73 virgins..........


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Actually, it's 73 virgins..........



Actually it is zero!  Heaven is not your whorehouse.  It is a place of holy habitation for Almighty God and  his followers.  Not any of your nonsense.  Don't expect to find any sex in hell either.  You'll be too busy begging for a drop of water for that false tongue of yours.  - Jeremiah


----------



## namvet

Organized Jewry, The Inciter of Global War and Genocide -

his jew hater website


----------



## namvet

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's 73 virgins..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually it is zero!  Heaven is not your whorehouse.  It is a place of holy habitation for Almighty God and  his followers.  Not any of your nonsense.  Don't expect to find any sex in hell either.  You'll be too busy begging for a drop of water for that false tongue of yours.  - Jeremiah
Click to expand...


look closley and you'll see his 2 horns and a tail


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Despicable hate sites.   Where would haters of God be without them?   Seriously.   Perhaps it is a good thing that people see the despicable true nature of people such as Sunni man.  It casts out  the misconception that an American Muslim is a civilized one.   - Jeremiah


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Actually, it's 73 virgins..........



so hop to it


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


>



we see what you spend all your time reading


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> Duh.....When you bake bread over an open fire you create smoke.........
> 
> And no, it wasn't a crematoria



I am not a 'dude'.

Baking in an oven is NOT 'over an open fire'.

The word 'crematoria' is the plural form:  singular is 'crematorium'.

And NO - the smoke from baking bread is not heavy, black, greasy and foul-smelling.


----------



## namvet

women of the IDF. beautiful but lethal !!!














[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVz6d24Q52c&feature=player_embedded]IDF Israel female soldiers - YouTube[/ame]

*how many Nazi chicken sluts served???*​


----------



## MHunterB

Gracie said:


> Bread? BREAD??? I gotta admit..I am gobsmacked at the idiocy I see from time to time here. Or, if not stupidity, it is flat out refusal to see truth.



Gracie, I do not believe it is idiocy or stupidity.  I think they are well aware that they are lying, and *enjoy* their little passive/aggressive thrills.

For a few posters, I've no doubt it's become an attempt to carry on the Nazi 'legacy', trying to bring up the topic as a kind of threat.


----------



## Sunni Man

There is Zero evidence of any human residue or ash piles anywhere on the land around the chimneys. 

Another holohoax myth down the toilet.


btw "Duh" doesn't mean dude......Duh


----------



## there4eyeM

Why is anyone still debating with these individuals? There is no sense to their argument.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> There is Zero evidence of any human residue or ash piles anywhere on the land around the chimneys.
> 
> Another holohoax myth down the toilet.
> 
> 
> btw "Duh" doesn't mean dude......Duh



it was so high it was shoveled into the river numb nuts


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

namvet said:


> women of the IDF. beautiful but lethal !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDF Israel female soldiers - YouTube
> 
> *how many Nazi chicken sluts served???*​



Some of the most beautiful women in the world.  I have many WWII books with photos and not a single nazi woman that wasn't twisted & ugly in countenance.  Reminds me of these arab women I see now raising their fists shouting death to Jews and praising Hitler.  Very disturbing sight.  Hatred is ugly.


----------



## theHawk

varelse said:


> So a paper published by a half Jew, with a Jewish executive director,  says the numbers of Jews who suffered during WWII -that have been slowly admitted to have been inflated over for decades, even involving a changing of the plaque at the very camp in question to reflect the Jews' revision of their own lies- are now supposedly higher than ever? *This based on the claims of a museum designed to vilify our WWII enemy and distract from America's crimes by creating a German boogie man*. A museum whose director was a member of the American Jewish Committee...



As opposed to a museum designed to glorify our WWII enemies?


----------



## Sunni Man

namvet said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is Zero evidence of any human residue or ash piles anywhere on the land around the chimneys.
> 
> Another holohoax myth down the toilet.
> 
> 
> btw "Duh" doesn't mean dude......Duh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it was so high it was shoveled into the river numb nuts
Click to expand...

So every so called holocaust death camp was located next to a river??..........


----------



## Gracie

MHunterB said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bread? BREAD??? I gotta admit..I am gobsmacked at the idiocy I see from time to time here. Or, if not stupidity, it is flat out refusal to see truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gracie, I do not believe it is idiocy or stupidity.  I think they are well aware that they are lying, and *enjoy* their little passive/aggressive thrills.
> 
> For a few posters, I've no doubt it's become an attempt to carry on the Nazi 'legacy', trying to bring up the topic as a kind of threat.
Click to expand...


Oh, Sunni is enjoying his long spoon and stirring the smelly pot. He even neg'd me because he said I was "special". Unfortunately, he is showing just how special HE is by letting my words get to him. Poor thing. Pity him.


----------



## Gracie

there4eyeM said:


> Why is anyone still debating with these individuals? There is no sense to their argument.



It isn't a debate at all. It's trolling and they caught a few fish, myself included. Thanks for the wake up call that they are beneath me and not worthy any more of my time.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is Zero evidence of any human residue or ash piles anywhere on the land around the chimneys.
> 
> Another holohoax myth down the toilet.
> 
> 
> btw "Duh" doesn't mean dude......Duh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it was so high it was shoveled into the river numb nuts
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So every so called holocaust death camp was located next to a river??..........
Click to expand...


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

MHunterB said:


> Gracie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bread? BREAD??? I gotta admit..I am gobsmacked at the idiocy I see from time to time here. Or, if not stupidity, it is flat out refusal to see truth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gracie, I do not believe it is idiocy or stupidity.  I think they are well aware that they are lying, and *enjoy* their little passive/aggressive thrills.
> 
> For a few posters, I've no doubt it's become an attempt to carry on the Nazi 'legacy', trying to bring up the topic as a kind of threat.
Click to expand...


Right you are, Hunter, and that is why G-d of Israel continues to teach others not to go there by making examples out of people like Sunni Man.  This is not over.  Not by a longshot.  

- Jeremiah


----------



## Sunni Man




----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Jeremiah said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> women of the IDF. beautiful but lethal !!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IDF Israel female soldiers - YouTube
> 
> *how many Nazi chicken sluts served???*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the most beautiful women in the world.  I have many WWII books with photos and not a single nazi woman that wasn't twisted & ugly in countenance.  Reminds me of these arab women I see now raising their fists shouting death to Jews and praising Hitler.  Very disturbing sight.  Hatred is ugly.
Click to expand...


Skye, by your photographs I can see you are quite beautiful yourself.  You have magnificent bone structure.  I have a friend over in Europe who is a sculptor.  She would find it a real treat to have you as a subject.  You are quite beautiful.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Sunni Man




----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


>








*can you hear me now??*​


----------



## varelse

MHunterB said:


> Wirtz was executed for war crimes in 1865..


Was the entirety of the CSA? Did the CSA have a genocidal campaign to exterminate anyone not fitting their racial imaginings?

Was Shermon, for his march to the sea and his right to rape? Did the USA ave a genocidal campaign to exterminate Southerners?

You're making my point for me, oh smart one.


Why would those who went straight to the alleged gas chambers show signs of starvation and typhus?

Burning has always been the most effective way of destroying diseased corpses, as well as the lice and other disease-bearing parasites that infect them. Lice and disease were epidemic among inmates and not uncommon among guards.

Supplies shortages do not a holocaust make. Finding abuses and sick persons like Mengela or the troops at Abu Graihb do not a national system of genocide make, either. 

Did the USA have a system of genocide in VietNam? Or were the abuses of sick fucks the abuses of sick fucks in an environment which allowed the worst of them to carry out their own perverse imaginings?

If Americans want to weep over a genocide or ethnic cleansing, try looking at those going on today in Africa or Palestine. Or try admitting your own damn past and place Jackson's photo on the table instead of making Germany out to be the devil to hide Soviet war crimes and distract from your own wrongdoings.


----------



## SAYIT

varelse said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wirtz was executed for war crimes in 1865..
> 
> 
> 
> Was the entirety of the CSA? Did the CSA have a genocidal campaign to exterminate anyone not fitting their racial imaginings?
> 
> Was Shermon, for his march to the sea and his right to rape? Did the USA ave a genocidal campaign to exterminate Southerners?
> 
> You're making my point for me, oh smart one.
> 
> 
> Why would those who went straight to the alleged gas chambers show signs of starvation and typhus?
> 
> Burning has always been the most effective way of destroying diseased corpses, as well as the lice and other disease-bearing parasites that infect them. Lice and disease were epidemic among inmates and not uncommon among guards.
> 
> Supplies shortages do not a holocaust make. Finding abuses and sick persons like Mengela or the troops at Abu Graihb do not a national system of genocide make, either.
> 
> Did the USA have a system of genocide in VietNam? Or were the abuses of sick fucks the abuses of sick fucks in an environment which allowed the worst of them to carry out their own perverse imaginings?
> 
> If Americans want to weep over a genocide or ethnic cleansing, try looking at those going on today in Africa or Palestine. Or try admitting your own damn past and place Jackson's photo on the table instead of making Germany out to be the devil to hide Soviet war crimes and distract from your own wrongdoings.
Click to expand...


"Your own wrongdoings?" I take that to mean you aren't one of us.


----------



## MHunterB

Nobody is making your point for you, because you HAVE no point - except to whitewash deliberate Nazi atrocities.

There is a mountain of documentation of the deliberate intent of Hitler's Nazis to carry out genocide against Jews, Roma, Poles, Russians, the mentally ill, the mentally retarded, invalids and others who were deemed 'lesser'.  The killings started before the actual war began, targeting German citizens.

Before the Jews were rounded up for the 'camps', they had been fired from their jobs, evicted from their homes, crammed into ghettos with 'no visible means of support' - for months if not years.  So of course many of them were ill.  

Most of the 'supply shortages' were manufactured by Nazi edicts.  There was no 'accident' about the mass starvation.   

As for comparing the Nazi obscenities to Sherman's march through Georgia - DON'T.  Absolutely no comparison.  And incidentally, the South by maintaining slavery DID practice official genocide against blacks and 'mixed race' people.

Let's stay on the topic of what the Nazi 'government' did - deliberately, systematically, and with GLEE! - to whichever human beings they deemed 'unworthy' of being part of their society.

Don't bother making excuses and pretending it wasn't deliberate:  there is far too much evidence left behind by the perpetrators of these crimes against humanity.  Even their testimony from the Nuremberg trials is rife with their arrogance and the pretense that there was nothing wrong with their 'experiments' and all the rest.

There have been a few other regimes which perpetrated ass murder of civilians on such a scale - the Crusades within Europe, the Hundred Years' War, the 'purges' of Stalin, the 'reeducation' campaigns of Pol Pot in Cambodia, a few rampages in assorted sad places in Africa (Idi Amin) - and of course the ongoing genocide in Darfur - which is almost over, as most of the area is now depopulated.  Oh, and let's not forget the Rape of Nanking, either...... And the 'Cultural Revolution'.

I suppose you've got the excuses ready for all the rest of those mega-atrocities as well.

Have you personally ever spoken to anyone who was among the troops to liberate any of those Nazi camps?  I have.  An officer, a chaplain.  He had some of the movies the Nazis made of some of their 'experiments'.   And yes, he spoke and read German.

There are - or were - literally hundreds of thousands of witnesses to the overwhelming numbers of Nazi atrocities.  Everywhere the same pattern.  People who never met describing the same procedures in different places.  And there are literally mountains of documents and pictures and charts.


----------



## MHunterB

"making Germany out to be the devil to hide Soviet war crimes and distract from your own wrongdoings."

The Nazis were the devil.   That has nothing to do with the sins of the Soviets.  Nobody else has even mentioned them!


----------



## Saigon

> Why would those who went straight to the alleged gas chambers show signs of starvation and typhus?



Firstly - because many of those gassed were starving and suffering from typhus at the time they were gassed.

Secondly - there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever tht the Nazi's used gas chambers. German records confirm this, and detail the numbers gassed. All genuine historical sources confirm this, and there is no dispute or controversy regarding those records. 

It's strange how many Holocaust deniers seem unaware that Germans kept records, and that those records are available to the public.


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^  The allies faked many things concerning the nazis.......this included records and documentation.


----------



## Sunni Man




----------



## Saigon

Sunni - 

If Allies faked the German camp records - where did they get the names of the people who had been gassed?


----------



## Sunni Man

Saigon said:


> If Allies faked the German camp records - where did they get the names of the people who had been gassed?


There was no gassing.........


----------



## Saigon

Sunni - 

Nazi records confirm that people were gassed, and confirm the names of people who were gassed. 

This has all been on the public record for 10 years now - by which point any tiny shred of doubt the Deniers might have conjured up as finaly swept away.


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^^  There is Zero forensic evidence that any gassings took place.........


----------



## Saigon

Sunni - 

You're an intelligent man - much too smart to fall for the rantings of the KKK-nuts on Stormfront. 

Do a bit of research about the Bad Arolsen files and you'll be left with no doubt about the gassings. There really is no doubt at all now, if there ever was. 

Archives*| Internationaler Suchdienst Arolsen


----------



## Sunni Man

The zionist jews have associated any discussion of the holocaust with KKK or neo nazis.

Which is just another way to stop any serious discussion about flaws in the official holocaust story.

Saigon, you have also fallen into this trap..........


----------



## Saigon

Sunni Man said:


> The ovens the zionists claim was used to burn up the jews were too small to have been used for more that one body at a time.



Dude - I have stood in the gas ovens. I have walked around in them. 

My suggestion would be that you go and do the same, and come back to us and tell us how many people could fit in them at once.


----------



## Sunni Man

Professor Arno J. Mayer, whose Jewish family fled Luxembourg in 1940, wrote in his 1988 book _Why Did the Heavens Not Darken_

"Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable." 

"Most of what is known is based on the depositions of Nazi officials and executioners at postwar trials and on the memory of survivors and bystanders. This testimony must be screened carefully, since it can be influenced by subjective factors of great complexity." 

"In the meantime, there is no denying the many contradictions, ambiguities, and errors in the existing sources."

http://winstonsmithministryoftruth....ence-for-gas-chambers.html?zx=2d45d71a50123eb


----------



## Saigon

Sunni - 

Go and see with your own eyes. 

The Nazi files exist, and you can go and look at them.

The gas chambers exist, and you can go and look at them. I have. 

Posting nonsense from idiotic blogs does not make a case.


----------



## Sunni Man




----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^  The allies faked many things concerning the nazis.......this included records and documentation.



No doubt you have documentation from reputable news sources for this allegation, and numerous examples?

The Nazis put people into those camps.  The people were sick and underfed - but they were given neither food nor medicine, so many died.  So they put more people into those camps.  Repeat, repeat, repeat.  MILLIONS died.......

And you are insisting that this was NOT deliberate nor organized nor the deaths very much intentional - IN SPITE of mountains of evidence to the contrary.

What you are doing is insisting that the Nazis were the only honest group in all the parties involved in WW2.   Sure, they committed war crimes and crimes against humanity on a massive scale - but they NEVER had any official policy of harming anyone because of their ethnicity.

And your continual 'explanation' for all of this keeps boiling down to "It was the 'Zionists' who are responsible"....  

Tell me again, which of us has a 'Zio-centric' view of the world???


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni, why are you posting hate speech ?  Do you think those 'cartoons' are funny?


----------



## MHunterB

Gee, a blogstain so disgusting it comes with its own warning label.

And your carefully-selected quote doesn't deny that such gas chambers existed.

Let's put it this way, in order for the Holocaust documentation to have been 'faked' as you have claimed - it would have taken considerable manpower and time to produce so many forged documents.  Literally truckloads of them.

Now, where are the tens of thousands of US and other Allied personnel who worked to produce the 'falsified' paper trails you postulate?  How is it that hundreds of clerk-typists who had to have been involved have never come forward to protest such an outrage as that, falsifying evidence?

How did the Allied commanders get so many people of so many different nations to all keep such a big project a secret?

Speaking of a 'house of cards'......


----------



## Truthseeker420

don't forget the Nazi Monsters boiled babies brains and made soup out of them...


----------



## Sunni Man




----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> The zionist jews have associated any discussion of the holocaust with KKK or neo nazis.
> 
> Which is just another way to stop any serious discussion about flaws in the official holocaust story.
> 
> Saigon, you have also fallen into this trap..........



That 'association' is only logical:  

1) Whose actions are being 'defended' here?  Nazis.

2) What is the alternative to 'The accused is guilty as charged'?  That EVERYONE involved was either part of a conspiracy to falsify the evidence, or the evidence has been 'misunderstood' by ALL previous parties - INCLUDING the participants themselves (guards, officers, German and other civilians, Allied troops and investigators)

3) What is the "REASON" being put forth by 'defenders' for this "conspiracy"?  No less than the same 'worldwide Jewish conspiracy to control the world' - which was exactly the "foundation" upon which the anti-Jewish part of the Holocaust was erected.  

OF COURSE there are flaws in the account of such events.  The people involved are only human and imperfect.  Some of them - of ANY 'faction' - may have tried to 'slant' or 'spin' things for certain reasons, and it may not be possible to detect and correct all such 'wrinkles'.

But all of that together does not change the picture of Nazi Germany which was the result of the Nuremburg trials.  Because that portrait of Nazi intent and actions was VERY accurate.

That doesn't make the Allied troops executing surrendering Nazi soldiers 'right', NO.


----------



## Indofred

Too many people around who were in these terrible camps to even think about a lie about them never being there.
My Polish uncle was in one as a forced labourer and I have no reason to suggest he made it up.
I've met Jews who were in the camps. They were either the best actors in the world or it's true.
Personally, I believe the looks on their faces and my guts.
The holocaust memorial days were an eye opener. Interesting events because the local government would use them to promote understanding between all local groups.
This was before I converted to Islam but local Muslims attended.

The camps were there and millions were killed.


----------



## Indofred

PS - I fully accept the holocaust as true, dislike those who lie to forward their agenda but have equal contempt for those who use it for their selfish ends as the Israeli government does.


----------



## Indofred

Sunni Man said:


>



I totally disagree with this and request you prove your position using non biased links.


----------



## Indofred

It is interesting to see the extreme right such as David, I'm a daft fart, Duke and more extreme Muslim groups agreeing on this and even quoting each other in a positive way.
Idiots.


----------



## Indofred

Sunni Man said:


>



Oh, when the Nazis in the US have killed the Jews, who do you think is next on Duke's list?
Supporting the idiot extreme right's position on this is a really bad idea.


----------



## Sunni Man

Indofred said:


> Too many people around who were in these terrible camps to even think about a lie about them never being there.
> My Polish uncle was in one as a forced labourer and I have no reason to suggest he made it up.
> I've met Jews who were in the camps. They were either the best actors in the world or it's true.
> Personally, I believe the looks on their faces and my guts.
> The holocaust memorial days were an eye opener. Interesting events because the local government would use them to promote understanding between all local groups.
> This was before I converted to Islam but local Muslims attended.
> 
> The camps were there and millions were killed.


I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.

My main contention is:

1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.

2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.

3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.

4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


>









here this is yours. you posted it on your other jew hatin' thread then deleted it. I hate to deny a child his cartoons


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too many people around who were in these terrible camps to even think about a lie about them never being there.
> My Polish uncle was in one as a forced labourer and I have no reason to suggest he made it up.
> I've met Jews who were in the camps. They were either the best actors in the world or it's true.
> Personally, I believe the looks on their faces and my guts.
> The holocaust memorial days were an eye opener. Interesting events because the local government would use them to promote understanding between all local groups.
> This was before I converted to Islam but local Muslims attended.
> 
> The camps were there and millions were killed.
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.
> 
> My main contention is:
> 
> 1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.
> 
> 2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.
> 
> 3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.
> 
> 4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.
Click to expand...


don't forget to tell them your a muslim


----------



## namvet

Saigon said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ovens the zionists claim was used to burn up the jews were too small to have been used for more that one body at a time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dude - I have stood in the gas ovens. I have walked around in them.
> 
> My suggestion would be that you go and do the same, and come back to us and tell us how many people could fit in them at once.
Click to expand...


your wasting your time. he's "mentally challenged" can't find Germany on a map


----------



## Sunni Man

My father was in the U.S. Army and was stationed in Germany.

We lived there for 3 years.......


----------



## Swagger

Just a quick question. How would the non-deniers react if someone or some people who'd been smeared by the press as Holocaust Deniers uncovered and published/circulated evidence in the course of their research that proved more than the official estimate (6m) had perished in the death camps following research that would otherwise have been attributed to an alleged anti-Semitic agenda?

Would their findings be endorsed/cheered by their detractors or dismissed?


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> My father was in the U.S. Army and was stationed in Germany.
> 
> We lived there for 3 years.......



never happened


----------



## MHunterB

Swagger, the 'question' is nonsense.  The people like David Irving are not 'being smeared by the press':  they are being excoriated by the serious scholars and researchers in the field.  A 'jury of their peers' continually finds the Irvings and Zundels  grossly flawed in their methodology.

It has nothing to do with 'the press' or 'the government'.

There *IS* serious and objective research taking place still.


----------



## Sunni Man

namvet said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> My father was in the U.S. Army and was stationed in Germany.
> 
> We lived there for 3 years.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> never happened
Click to expand...

We lived on the military base next to Frankfurt and I attended the American school on the base........


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> My father was in the U.S. Army and was stationed in Germany.
> 
> We lived there for 3 years.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> never happened
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We lived on the military base next to Frankfurt and I attended the American school on the base........
Click to expand...


 I am in total denial of this. there is no proof at all


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too many people around who were in these terrible camps to even think about a lie about them never being there.
> My Polish uncle was in one as a forced labourer and I have no reason to suggest he made it up.
> I've met Jews who were in the camps. They were either the best actors in the world or it's true.
> Personally, I believe the looks on their faces and my guts.
> The holocaust memorial days were an eye opener. Interesting events because the local government would use them to promote understanding between all local groups.
> This was before I converted to Islam but local Muslims attended.
> 
> The camps were there and millions were killed.
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.
> 
> My main contention is:
> 
> 1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.
> *Newer research is finding the previous numbers to be LOW.*
> 
> 2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.
> *This is either false or simply unreasonable.  There is certainly enough testimony - by those who had to remove the bodies, among others.  And those who supplied the Zyklon-B, etc.*
> 
> 3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.
> *The US doesn't do that - nor are 'zionists' responsible for creating such laws elsewhere.  And it's not 'having contrary views':  it's 'whitewashing genocide'.*
> 
> 4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.
> *Scholars have - numerous well-trained ones.  Nobody is 'not allowing':  they are simply insisting that such research be held to the already-established standards to ensure objectivity and accuracy. *
Click to expand...


Who, exactly, are you claiming is doing this 'not allowing'?  And why?


----------



## MHunterB

namvet said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> never happened
> 
> 
> 
> We lived on the military base next to Frankfurt and I attended the American school on the base........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am in total denial of this. there is no proof at all
Click to expand...


You're right:  there is ZERO forensic evidence for it.


----------



## Sunni Man

MHunterB said:


> There *IS* serious and objective research taking place still.


If a serious university historian questions any aspect of the official holocaust story.

He will be immediately vilified as anti-semitic and a nazi.

And will lose his tenure and be fired on the spot.......


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> There *IS* serious and objective research taking place still.
> 
> 
> 
> If a serious university historian questions any aspect of the official holocaust story.
> 
> He will be immediately vilified as anti-semitic and a nazi.
> 
> And will lose his tenure and be fired on the spot.......
Click to expand...




where's the cartoon ???


----------



## namvet

MHunterB said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too many people around who were in these terrible camps to even think about a lie about them never being there.
> My Polish uncle was in one as a forced labourer and I have no reason to suggest he made it up.
> I've met Jews who were in the camps. They were either the best actors in the world or it's true.
> Personally, I believe the looks on their faces and my guts.
> The holocaust memorial days were an eye opener. Interesting events because the local government would use them to promote understanding between all local groups.
> This was before I converted to Islam but local Muslims attended.
> 
> The camps were there and millions were killed.
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.
> 
> My main contention is:
> 
> 1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.
> *Newer research is finding the previous numbers to be LOW.*
> 
> 2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.
> *This is either false or simply unreasonable.  There is certainly enough testimony - by those who had to remove the bodies, among others.  And those who supplied the Zyklon-B, etc.*
> 
> 3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.
> *The US doesn't do that - nor are 'zionists' responsible for creating such laws elsewhere.  And it's not 'having contrary views':  it's 'whitewashing genocide'.*
> 
> 4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.
> *Scholars have - numerous well-trained ones.  Nobody is 'not allowing':  they are simply insisting that such research be held to the already-established standards to ensure objectivity and accuracy. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who, exactly, are you claiming is doing this 'not allowing'?  And why?
Click to expand...


he does NOT have a clue


----------



## Sunni Man

namvet said:


> where's the cartoon ???


Your avatar and user name are the cartoon.

By claiming the be a Vietnam Vet when all you did was float all safe and secure on a ship many miles fron the coast of Vietnam.........


----------



## Saigon

Sunni - 

Can you explain why you do not consider the German camp records to be convincing - when they so obviously could not be faked?

Are you aware that even Holocaudt Denier David Irving admitted that "at least" 4 million Jews were murdered?


----------



## namvet

Saigon said:


> Sunni -
> 
> Can you explain why you do not consider the German camp records to be convincing - when they so obviously could not be faked?
> 
> Are you aware that even Holocaudt Denier David Irving admitted that "at least" 4 million Jews were murdered?



no he can't and never will


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^ Truth hurts you fake Vietnam Vet.......


----------



## namvet

Zyklon B


Hydrogen cyanide HCN, prussic acid, is a chemical compound in the form of a powerfully poisonous, volatile colorless liquid with the odor of bitter almonds. Prussic acid is considered a battlefield poison agent. Its action depends on the restraint of cellular respiration as a result of neutralizing the respiratory enzymes. Prussic acid passes through the mucous membranes and the skin, but principally through the lungs, into the blood. It blocks the process by which oxygen is released from red blood corpuscles and the result is a sort of internal asphyxiation. This is accompanied by symptoms of injury to the respiratory system, combined with a feeling of fear, dizziness and vomiting.

Zyklon B was used in Germany before and during the Second World War for disinfection and pest extermination in ships, buildings and machinery. In the Auschwitz concentration camp as well, it was used exclusively for sanitation and pest control until the summer of 1941. After the end of August 1941, Zyklon was used in the camp, first experimentally and then routinely, as an agent of mass annihilation. Zyklon B consisted of diatomite, in the form of granules the size of fine peas, saturated with prussic acid. In view of its volatility and the associated risk of accidental poisoning, it was supplied to the camp in sealed metal canisters.

The Zyklon used at Auschwitz concentration camp was produced by a firm called Degesch (Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schädlingsbekämpfung mbH), with headquarters in Frankfurt am Main and forming a part of IG Farbenidustrie AG.

link
--------------

Two German firms, Tesch/Stabenow and Degesch, produced Cyclone B gas after they acquired the patent from Farben. Tesch supplied two tons a month, and Degesch three quarters of a ton. The firms that produced the gas already had extensive experience in fumigation. 

"In short, this industry used very powerful gases to exterminate rodents and insects in enclosed spaces; that it should now have become involved in an operation to kill off Jews by the hundreds of thousands is not mere accident." (Hilberg, Commandant, 567)

link


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^ Truth hurts you fake Vietnam Vet.......



what SS unit did alleged daddy belong to???


----------



## Sunni Man

namvet said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ Truth hurts you fake Vietnam Vet.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what SS unit did alleged daddy belong to???
Click to expand...

You need to change your user name to "namscam" .......


----------



## Saigon

namvet said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni -
> 
> Can you explain why you do not consider the German camp records to be convincing - when they so obviously could not be faked?
> 
> Are you aware that even Holocaudt Denier David Irving admitted that "at least" 4 million Jews were murdered?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no he can't and never will
Click to expand...


It always amazes me when these issues come down to blind faith - contradicted by entire truck loads of facts. 

Anyone today can go and stand in the original gas chambers and see for themselves. Anyone can go and look at the original German camp files. 

Its funny how no Denier wants to.


----------



## Sunni Man

In 1991, the Polish government repeated these tests to disprove Leuchter's findings, but they as well found no evidence of any gassings ever occurring.

"The structural integrity of these "gas chambers" is also extremely faulty. These rooms have ordinary doors and windows which are not hermetically sealed! There are large gaps between the floors and doors. If the Germans had attempted to gas anyone in these rooms, they would have died themselves, as the gas would have leaked and contaminated the entire area. Also, no equipment exists to exhaust the air-gas mixture from these buildings. Nothing was made to introduce or distribute the gas throughout the chambers. There are no provisions to prevent condensation of gas on the walls, floors or ceilings. No exhaust stacks have ever existed.

Though six million Jews supposedly died in the gas chambers,* not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning*. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or Allied bombings and a great many of those were murdered Germans, not Jews. Roughly the equivalent of ten football fields should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, yet not one body has ever been discovered.

The Germans documented everything in meticulous detail from shrubbery to arbors, but no pre-war or wartime plans or documents exist that detail or even mention any gas chambers for reasons of genocide. All documents ever presented were drawn up AFTER the war."

Is the Holocaust a Hoax?


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ Truth hurts you fake Vietnam Vet.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what SS unit did alleged daddy belong to???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You need to change your user name to "namscam" .......
Click to expand...


I believe this belongs to you


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> In 1991, the Polish government repeated these tests to disprove Leuchter's findings, but they as well found no evidence of any gassings ever occurring.
> 
> "The structural integrity of these "gas chambers" is also extremely faulty. These rooms have ordinary doors and windows which are not hermetically sealed! There are large gaps between the floors and doors. If the Germans had attempted to gas anyone in these rooms, they would have died themselves, as the gas would have leaked and contaminated the entire area. Also, no equipment exists to exhaust the air-gas mixture from these buildings. Nothing was made to introduce or distribute the gas throughout the chambers. There are no provisions to prevent condensation of gas on the walls, floors or ceilings. No exhaust stacks have ever existed.
> 
> Though six million Jews supposedly died in the gas chambers,* not one body has ever been autopsied and found to have died of gas poisoning*. We have been shown piles of bodies from World War II, but most of these persons died of typhus or starvation or Allied bombings and a great many of those were murdered Germans, not Jews. Roughly the equivalent of ten football fields should be packed full of gassed bodies to present as evidence, yet not one body has ever been discovered.
> 
> The Germans documented everything in meticulous detail from shrubbery to arbors, but no pre-war or wartime plans or documents exist that detail or even mention any gas chambers for reasons of genocide. All documents ever presented were drawn up AFTER the war."
> 
> Is the Holocaust a Hoax?



prove it storm trooper


----------



## namvet

Saigon said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni -
> 
> Can you explain why you do not consider the German camp records to be convincing - when they so obviously could not be faked?
> 
> Are you aware that even Holocaudt Denier David Irving admitted that "at least" 4 million Jews were murdered?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no he can't and never will
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It always amazes me when these issues come down to blind faith - contradicted by entire truck loads of facts.
> 
> Anyone today can go and stand in the original gas chambers and see for themselves. Anyone can go and look at the original German camp files.
> 
> Its funny how no Denier wants to.
Click to expand...


their biggest headache is to many witness's


----------



## Swagger

MHunterB said:


> Swagger, the 'question' is nonsense.  The people like David Irving are not 'being smeared by the press':  they are being excoriated by the serious scholars and researchers in the field.  A 'jury of their peers' continually finds the Irvings and Zundels  grossly flawed in their methodology.
> 
> It has nothing to do with 'the press' or 'the government'.
> 
> There *IS* serious and objective research taking place still.



With all due respect, you haven't even attempted to answer my question.


----------



## Sunni Man




----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


>



ah yes from you holohoax collection. tell em about it storm trooper


----------



## Sunni Man

How is your "namscam" doing......shouldn't you be ashamed for being a fake VNV ?? ........


----------



## Saigon

Swagger said:


> Just a quick question. How would the non-deniers react if someone or some people who'd been smeared by the press as Holocaust Deniers uncovered and published/circulated evidence in the course of their research that proved more than the official estimate (6m) had perished in the death camps following research that would otherwise have been attributed to an alleged anti-Semitic agenda?
> 
> Would their findings be endorsed/cheered by their detractors or dismissed?



If their research was legitimate and based on solid evidence, it would be accepted. Peer review does not require research to be popular - only based on sound academic principles. 

There are instances on this happening every year on various topics, including a recent PhD here in Finland which probed the handing over of 8 Jews to the Nazis, a story that had previously been buried. You can imagine how popular the author was after that.

That said, it is almost impossible for Holocaust "revisionism" to meet academic standards.


----------



## varelse

MHunterB said:


> fired from their jobs, evicted from their homes, crammed into ghettos with 'no visible means of support' - for months if not years.


Israel policies pushing Palestinians deeper into poverty: U.N.
Palestinians slipping deeper into poverty: U.N. | Reuters
BBC NEWS | Middle East | UN alarm at Palestinian poverty
Financial boycott sends Palestinian poverty numbers soaring, finds UN report | The Electronic Intifada




> Most of the 'supply shortages' were manufactured by Nazi edicts



Not the supply shortages in the labor camps. Those resulted from bombings of the camps and rail lines. Naturally, the guards fed themselves first.



> the South by maintaining slavery DID practice official genocide against blacks and 'mixed race' people.


Slavery is genocide? Really?

_Genocide_ is "the deliberate and systematic destruction of, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"​
Now you're trying to demonize slavery- albeit in an idiotic manner. Whose religious text teaches that one should enslave the other races? Or have Jews collectively renounced the Torah?


> Even their testimony from the Nuremberg trials


Hoess' incoherent torture 'confession', which conflicts with the official story taught today? Shrunken heads and Jewish soap? The Nuremburg show trials have as much credibility as the Soviet


> People who never met describing the same procedures in different places.


Like those lampshades and shrunken heads? 

If your ITS documents are real, why did they not feel safe making them available for public scrutiny until 2006? What took so long?



Truthseeker420 said:


> don't forget the Nazi Monsters boiled babies brains and made soup out of them...


And tossed babies back and forth on their bayonets!

Has Buck v Bell been overturned yet? I don't think _Germany_ has legal forced sterilization for criminals like the US does....


Indofred said:


> Oh, when the Nazis in the US have killed the Jews, who do you think is next on Duke's list?


What list? Please cite where Duke has proposed or supported violence against anyone.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

MHunterB said:


> Sunni, why are you posting hate speech ?  Do you think those 'cartoons' are funny?[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> King Solomon was the wisest King in all the earth and received his wisdom from G-d.  The One True G-d.   King Solomons proverb applies here.  It is the proverb that states:
> 
> Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
> 
> In this thread the author is informing the board about the holocaust, reminding the world of the results of anti semitism - reminding the world to never forget the atrocities perpretrated against the Hebrew Race.    In hearing and seeing this unfold Sunni Man is revealing what is in his heart for the Hebrew Race.  He despises them, he hates the Jews so badly that he is seething / chomping at a bit as a horse would do - to lunge into deeply offensive - hurtful words / cartoons / anything he can to bring a greater suffering into the heart of the Jewish reader here.   This is the heart of Islam, people.  Which is why Islam has no place in our society. It cannot co -exist respectfully with people who are not followers of Islam and cannot rest until it murders all Islam has condemned to death.  Jews, Christians, Hindus, Yogis, whoever is not a Muslim.    This is the face of Islam.  Seeing photographs of Jews starved to death, behind barbed wire will send a radical Muslim into a frenzy every bit as much as blood in the water excites a man eating shark.  It is the nature of the beast.  - Jeremiah


----------



## SAYIT

Sunni Man said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> There *IS* serious and objective research taking place still.
> 
> 
> 
> If a serious university historian questions any aspect of the official holocaust story.
> 
> He will be immediately vilified as anti-semitic and a nazi.
> 
> And will lose his tenure and be fired on the spot.......
Click to expand...


Camel Crap. 
There are loony tunes "scholars" - most of whom are not historians - who spew their silliness and still maintain their jobs but America's oldest and largest historical association found the denier's work to be so onerous they issued the following statement:

"The American Historical Association Council strongly deplores the publicly reported attempts to deny the fact of the Holocaust. *No serious historian questions that the Holocaust took place*."

Deniers are ridiculed and marginalized even within their own peer group.

Perspectives (December 1991): Contents of the December 1991 Issue - American Historical Association


----------



## Saigon

Varelse - 

You are presumably aware of the fact the German camp records are open and available and have been for many years now - and that they confirm the systematic execution of named and numbered Jews entering the camps?

I can't imagine what shred of hope remains for "Revisionism" after that - surely it is game over?


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Someone ought to ask Sunni Man why he finds it acceptable to post these cartoons while not finding it acceptable for Europeans to post cartoons of Mohammad in their newspapers.    The double standards he holds to are the height of hypocrisy.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Saigon

Jeremiah said:


> Someone ought to ask Sunni Man why he finds it acceptable to post these cartoons while not finding it acceptable for Europeans to post cartoons of Mohammad in their newspapers.    The double standards he holds to are the height of hypocrisy.  - Jeremiah



Bravo, Jeremiah - excellent point!


----------



## SAYIT

namvet said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> There *IS* serious and objective research taking place still.
> 
> 
> 
> If a serious university historian questions any aspect of the official holocaust story.
> 
> He will be immediately vilified as anti-semitic and a nazi.
> 
> And will lose his tenure and be fired on the spot.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> where's the cartoon ???
Click to expand...


Sunni is the cartoon.


----------



## SAYIT

namvet said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.
> 
> My main contention is:
> 
> 1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.
> *Newer research is finding the previous numbers to be LOW.*
> 
> 2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.
> *This is either false or simply unreasonable.  There is certainly enough testimony - by those who had to remove the bodies, among others.  And those who supplied the Zyklon-B, etc.*
> 
> 3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.
> *The US doesn't do that - nor are 'zionists' responsible for creating such laws elsewhere.  And it's not 'having contrary views':  it's 'whitewashing genocide'.*
> 
> 4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.
> *Scholars have - numerous well-trained ones.  Nobody is 'not allowing':  they are simply insisting that such research be held to the already-established standards to ensure objectivity and accuracy. *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who, exactly, are you claiming is doing this 'not allowing'?  And why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> he does NOT have a clue
Click to expand...


But he does have an agenda.


----------



## SAYIT

Saigon said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni -
> 
> Can you explain why you do not consider the German camp records to be convincing - when they so obviously could not be faked?
> 
> Are you aware that even Holocaudt Denier David Irving admitted that "at least" 4 million Jews were murdered?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no he can't and never will
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It always amazes me when these issues come down to blind faith - contradicted by entire truck loads of facts.
> 
> Anyone today can go and stand in the original gas chambers and see for themselves. Anyone can go and look at the original German camp files.
> 
> Its funny how no Denier wants to.
Click to expand...


Their purpose is not to spread truth. I'll leave to the reader to decide what the deniers are spreading.


----------



## Sunni Man

Saigon said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone ought to ask Sunni Man why he finds it acceptable to post these cartoons while not finding it acceptable for Europeans to post cartoons of Mohammad in their newspapers.    The double standards he holds to are the height of hypocrisy.  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bravo, Jeremiah - excellent point!
Click to expand...

Simple

The Muhammad cartoons slanders a revered religious figure.

Whereas, holocaust cartoons lambast an alleged historial event and zionist ideology.

Big difference........


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Manure to put it politely.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Saigon

Sunni -

The deaths of five million non-Jewish prisoners has nothing whatsoever to do with Zionim, Judaism or Jews.


----------



## Sunni Man

Saigon said:


> Sunni -
> 
> The deaths of five million non-Jewish prisoners has nothing whatsoever to do with Zionim, Judaism or Jews.


I never claimed it did.......


----------



## namvet

SAYIT said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who, exactly, are you claiming is doing this 'not allowing'?  And why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he does NOT have a clue
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But he does have an agenda.
Click to expand...


based on hate


----------



## Swagger

Saigon said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a quick question. How would the non-deniers react if someone or some people who'd been smeared by the press as Holocaust Deniers uncovered and published/circulated evidence in the course of their research that proved more than the official estimate (6m) had perished in the death camps following research that would otherwise have been attributed to an alleged anti-Semitic agenda?
> 
> Would their findings be endorsed/cheered by their detractors or dismissed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If their research was legitimate and based on solid evidence, it would be accepted. Peer review does not require research to be popular - only based on sound academic principles.
> 
> There are instances on this happening every year on various topics, including a recent PhD here in Finland which probed the handing over of 8 Jews to the Nazis, a story that had previously been buried. You can imagine how popular the author was after that.
> 
> *That said, it is almost impossible for Holocaust "revisionism" to meet academic standards*.
Click to expand...


Why, exactly? Historians - expert and amateur - 'revise' (a.k.a 'dispute') what they consider unreliable or biased accounts of events in history all the time. Almost every day, in fact. They do so by researching all manner of sources and comparing them against new evidence (archaelogical or academic). From what I can gather, these "revisionists" do exactly the same. They even cite the sources and evidence they've drawn into doubt. How does that not meet "academic standards"?

Whenever someone (Oxford academic or amateur historian) publically declares that their research runs into conflict with elements of the official narrative, or even voices an element of doubt, they're vilified and often risk losing their tenure. For instance. What do you honestly believe would be the reaction of the international media if leading modern historians applied to forensically examine - including extensive geophysical surveys - one or more of the death camps in Europe to satisfy any doubts they may have concerning events that are widely believed to have occured during WWII?


----------



## SAYIT

Saigon said:


> Varelse -
> 
> You are presumably aware of the fact the German camp records are open and available and have been for many years now - and that they confirm the systematic execution of named and numbered Jews entering the camps?
> 
> I can't imagine what shred of hope remains for "Revisionism" after that - surely it is game over?



For 21st (and 20th) Century deniers the game is never over. It's like playin' Whack-a-Mole.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone ought to ask Sunni Man why he finds it acceptable to post these cartoons while not finding it acceptable for Europeans to post cartoons of Mohammad in their newspapers.    The double standards he holds to are the height of hypocrisy.  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bravo, Jeremiah - excellent point!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Simple
> 
> The Muhammad cartoons slanders a revered religious figure.
> 
> Whereas, holocaust cartoons lambast an alleged historial event and zionist ideology.
> 
> Big difference........
Click to expand...


which PROVES your a racist


----------



## Sunni Man

Not one single body from the prison camps has ever been the subject of a forensic autopsy to determine if a gas or chemical agent was the cause of death. 

We now have the technology to determine if the holocaust gas chamber story is fact or fiction........


----------



## Saigon

Swagger said:


> Why, exactly? Historians - expert and amateur - 'revise' (a.k.a 'dispute') what they consider unreliable or biased accounts of events in history all the time. Almost every day, in fact. They do so by researching all manner of sources and comparing them against new evidence (archaelogical or academic). From what I can gather, these "revisionists" do exactly the same. They even cite the sources and evidence they've drawn into doubt. How does that not meet "academic standards"?



It's difficult for Holocaust "Revisionists" to produce academic work because 99% of what Revisionists publish has no basis in anything except politics. 

I know it's an attractive idea to think that new theories are being squashed and people being silenced, but the reality of academia is simply not like that. Voices are raised, opinions screamed from the rooftops, and arguments conducted all over the place. People can, and do, say whatever they like, basically. 

But the basis for debate within any decent university faculty is quality. It's about being able to justify a position. If you can do that, you will always find a university that will accept it. 

What one has to understand is that most "revisionists" are doing research entirely for poltical reasons. That doesn't make genuine historical research very easy to do!


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Not one single body from the prison camps has ever been the subject of a forensic autopsy to determine if a gas or chemical agent was the cause of death.
> 
> We now have the technology to determine if the holocaust gas chamber story is fact or fiction........



lets see the technology storm trooper. im in denial


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Not one single body from the prison camps has ever been the subject of a forensic autopsy to determine if a gas or chemical agent was the cause of death.
> 
> We now have the technology to determine if the holocaust gas chamber story is fact or fiction........



no shit sherlock


----------



## Foxfyre

So Sunni, a Muslim, uses a text put out by one of the most anti-semitic groups on the planet - "Bible Believer" based in Australia - as his source.   Bible Believers were described as "one the most visible of the plethora of eccentric pseudo-Christian groups in Australia" and "extremist" by the Australia/Israel & Jewish Affairs Council (AIJAC) in their 2008 report on antisemitism in Australia.

While I do not usually use either Wikipedia or Skeptic Magazine as definitive sources, in this case both have done a credible job in pulling a lot of different information together.  Some years ago, I coached a debate team on the very subject of Holocaust Denial, and the extensive research that we did in preparation for that debate is fairly well summarized in the two sources linked.  Frankly I have neither the time or inclination to repeat all the previous research done to come up with original sources, but some good ones are referred to in the linked references.



> The Nazis used figures of between 9 and 11 million for the Jewish population of Europe, as evidenced in the notes of the Wannsee Conference. In fact, the Nazis methodically recorded the ongoing reduction of the Jewish population, as in the Korherr Report, which gave the status of the Final Solution through December, 1942.
> 
> The Höfle Telegram was sent by SS-Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle on January 11, 1943 to SS-Obersturmbannführer Adolf Eichmann in Berlin and detailed the number of deaths of Jews in the concentration camps.[54] In the year 1942 alone, the telegram lists 1,274,166 Jews were exterminated[54] in the four camps of Aktion Reinhard. The Korherr Report compiled by an SS statistician, gave a conservative total of 2,454,000 Jews deported to extermination camps or killed by the Einsatzgruppen. The complete status reports of the Einsatzgruppen death squads were found in the archives of the Gestapo when it was searched by the U.S. Army, and the accuracy attested to by the former Einsatzgruppen members who testified during war crime trials and at other times. These reports alone list an additional 1,500,000 or so murders during mass shootings, the vast majority of these victims were Jews. Further, surviving Nazi documentation spells out their plans to murder the Jews of Europe (see the Wannsee Conference), recorded the trains arriving at various death camps, and included photographs and films of many atrocities.
> Criticism of Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





> How do we know the Nazis used gas chambers to kill Jews en masse? The same way we prove the Holocaust in general--a convergence of evidence from various sources:
> 
> 1. Written documents--Orders for Zyklon-B gas, blueprints and orders for building materials for the crematoria, etc.
> 
> 2. Eyewitness testimony--Sonderkommando diaries, confessions of guards and commandants, etc.
> 
> 3. Photographs--Not only of the camps, but especially interesting are the secret photos taken of the burning of bodies that were smuggled out of Auschwitz.
> 
> 4. The camps themselves--forensic tests have now been conducted demonstrating the homicidal use of both the gas chambers and the crematoria for the express purpose of exterminating large numbers of prisoners (Pressac, 1989; Pressac and Van Pelt, 1994).
> 
> 5. Negative evidence--we have documentation of the numbers of prisoners shipped to the various camps, the numbers that were transferred, and the number liberated. The difference between the latter with the former two figures gives an approximation of the numbers who died or were killed (see Hilberg, 1961).
> Proving the Gas Chambers & Crematoria


----------



## Saigon

This, folks, is a gas chamber at Auschwitz 1. I took this pic, btw. 






The ovens used to cremate bodies are right next to it - there were about 8 of those if I remember rightly. Bodies were wheeled out in trollies and loaded right into the ovens.


----------



## Swagger

Saigon said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why, exactly? Historians - expert and amateur - 'revise' (a.k.a 'dispute') what they consider unreliable or biased accounts of events in history all the time. Almost every day, in fact. They do so by researching all manner of sources and comparing them against new evidence (archaelogical or academic). From what I can gather, these "revisionists" do exactly the same. They even cite the sources and evidence they've drawn into doubt. How does that not meet "academic standards"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's difficult for Holocaust "Revisionists" to produce academic work because 99% of what Revisionists publish has no basis in anything except politics.
> 
> I know it's an attractive idea to think that new theories are being squashed and people being silenced, but the reality of academia is simply not like that. Voices are raised, opinions screamed from the rooftops, and arguments conducted all over the place. People can, and do, say whatever they like, basically.
> 
> But the basis for debate within any decent university faculty is quality. It's about being able to justify a position. If you can do that, you will always find a university that will accept it.
> 
> *What one has to understand is that most "revisionists" are doing research entirely for poltical reasons. That doesn't make genuine historical research very easy to do*!
Click to expand...


How? 

Either way, it could be argued that historians draw described events in history into doubt for a plethora of reasons/motives. To satisfy their own curiosity. To sell books. To elevate their standing among their peers. To cause controversy. Or simply to create dialogue. 

The head count of historians or anyone in the public eye who have voiced doubts over what is widely believed to have happened to European Jewry in Europe during WWII stands as testament to their being a potentially ruinous exception to the rule concerning historical research and any disputes drawn from it.

There are conflicting opinions on what befell the 9th Legion. Some historians believe it was destroyed north of Hadrian's Wall. Some believe that it was simply re-assigned to another province. But all research and/or dispute is welcome without running the risk of having your hard-earned reputation dragged through the dirt. Historians and archaelogists still haven't agreed on how the Pyramids were built. Yet they can safely publish and discuss their contentions and agreements without being subject to the wrath of the media.

Raise/publish anything that draws the Holocaust narrative into doubt and you're guaranteed to find yourself in the press' crosshairs. You could even face a prison sentence depending on where you disseminate your contentious findings. Why is that. What's so special - or potentially embarrassing - about raising what some clearly regard as undesirable doubts concerning the Holocaust?


----------



## namvet

Foxfyre said:


> So Sunni, a Muslim, uses a text put out by one of the most anti-semitic groups on the planet - "Bible Believer" based in Australia - as his source.   Bible Believers were described as "one the most visible of the plethora of eccentric pseudo-Christian groups in Australia" and "extremist" by the Australia/Israel & Jewish Affairs Council (AIJAC) in their 2008 report on antisemitism in Australia.
> 
> While I do not usually use either Wikipedia or Skeptic Magazine as definitive sources, in this case both have done a credible job in pulling a lot of different information together.  Some years ago, I coached a debate team on the very subject of Holocaust Denial, and the extensive research that we did in preparation for that debate is fairly well summarized in the two sources linked.  Frankly I have neither the time or inclination to repeat all the previous research done to come up with original sources, but some good ones are referred to in the linked references.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Nazis used figures of between 9 and 11 million for the Jewish population of Europe, as evidenced in the notes of the Wannsee Conference. In fact, the Nazis methodically recorded the ongoing reduction of the Jewish population, as in the Korherr Report, which gave the status of the Final Solution through December, 1942.
> 
> The Höfle Telegram was sent by SS-Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle on January 11, 1943 to SS-Obersturmbannführer Adolf Eichmann in Berlin and detailed the number of deaths of Jews in the concentration camps.[54] In the year 1942 alone, the telegram lists 1,274,166 Jews were exterminated[54] in the four camps of Aktion Reinhard. The Korherr Report compiled by an SS statistician, gave a conservative total of 2,454,000 Jews deported to extermination camps or killed by the Einsatzgruppen. The complete status reports of the Einsatzgruppen death squads were found in the archives of the Gestapo when it was searched by the U.S. Army, and the accuracy attested to by the former Einsatzgruppen members who testified during war crime trials and at other times. These reports alone list an additional 1,500,000 or so murders during mass shootings, the vast majority of these victims were Jews. Further, surviving Nazi documentation spells out their plans to murder the Jews of Europe (see the Wannsee Conference), recorded the trains arriving at various death camps, and included photographs and films of many atrocities.
> Criticism of Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do we know the Nazis used gas chambers to kill Jews en masse? The same way we prove the Holocaust in general--a convergence of evidence from various sources:
> 
> 1. Written documents--Orders for Zyklon-B gas, blueprints and orders for building materials for the crematoria, etc.
> 
> 2. Eyewitness testimony--Sonderkommando diaries, confessions of guards and commandants, etc.
> 
> 3. Photographs--Not only of the camps, but especially interesting are the secret photos taken of the burning of bodies that were smuggled out of Auschwitz.
> 
> 4. The camps themselves--forensic tests have now been conducted demonstrating the homicidal use of both the gas chambers and the crematoria for the express purpose of exterminating large numbers of prisoners (Pressac, 1989; Pressac and Van Pelt, 1994).
> 
> 5. Negative evidence--we have documentation of the numbers of prisoners shipped to the various camps, the numbers that were transferred, and the number liberated. The difference between the latter with the former two figures gives an approximation of the numbers who died or were killed (see Hilberg, 1961).
> Proving the Gas Chambers & Crematoria
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


he's NOT listening. he's making bread


----------



## Sunni Man

namvet said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not one single body from the prison camps has ever been the subject of a forensic autopsy to determine if a gas or chemical agent was the cause of death.
> 
> We now have the technology to determine if the holocaust gas chamber story is fact or fiction........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no shit sherlock
Click to expand...

^^^ Ovens for baking bread to feed the soldiers and camp inmates........


----------



## Saigon

Swagger -

Put it this way - if you set out tomorrow to prove that smoking does not cause cancer, you're going to find it difficult. It may not be impossible, and you may even find something, but its going to be hard work - because you are trying to disprove something that has already been proven by 1,000 other studies. 

There is simply no dispute, no contoversy and no argument about how many people died, or how they died, or where. 

As for the laws, it's a tough issue and I can see both sides of it. But I do understand that Germany wants to protect its reputation, and wants to reassure the world that history will not repeat itself.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not one single body from the prison camps has ever been the subject of a forensic autopsy to determine if a gas or chemical agent was the cause of death.
> 
> We now have the technology to determine if the holocaust gas chamber story is fact or fiction........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no shit sherlock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^^^ Ovens for baking bread to feed the soldiers and camp inmates........
Click to expand...


climb in ill close the door


----------



## Swagger

Saigon said:


> Swagger -
> 
> Put it this way - if you set out tomorrow to prove that smoking does not cause cancer, you're going to find it difficult. It may not be impossible, and you may even find something, but its going to be hard work - because you are trying to disprove something that has already been proven by 1,000 other studies.
> 
> There is simply no dispute, no contoversy and no argument about how many people died, or how they died, or where.
> 
> As for the laws, it's a tough issue and I can see both sides of it. But I do understand that Germany wants to protect its reputation, and wants to reassure the world that history will not repeat itself.



We're not discussing medical facts where there's an action and a reaction, Saigon. We're talking about widely distributed accounts from history drawn from witness testimony during a period of enormous upheaval and chaos. There's ample room for dispute.

I have consistently maintained throughout this thread that I believe that European Jewry were indeed herded into cattle trucks and gassed in concentration camps under explicit edicts from Nazi High Command. But I've also stated that I don't buy into the whole story and that there are some causes for doubt, and some exaggarations of events and data. Many others hold similar doubts. But it remains a fact that there is a widely known (not to mention ugly) exception to the rule concerning historical research and re-examination, with countless column inches bearing testimony to the consequences of drawing the Holocaust into doubt.


----------



## Saigon

Swagger - 

I don't know what cause for doubt there could be about any of the substantive facts; I really don't. 

I would also dispute that "many others hold similar doubts". Putting to one side the Neo-Nazis and right wing groups who have no actual interest in the history, I think the numbers of people who have genuine doubts about the historical facts of the Holocaust would be negligable. 

I'm in no way blaming or criticising you here - I just can't imagine what you might doubt.


----------



## Foxfyre

Swagger said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger -
> 
> Put it this way - if you set out tomorrow to prove that smoking does not cause cancer, you're going to find it difficult. It may not be impossible, and you may even find something, but its going to be hard work - because you are trying to disprove something that has already been proven by 1,000 other studies.
> 
> There is simply no dispute, no contoversy and no argument about how many people died, or how they died, or where.
> 
> As for the laws, it's a tough issue and I can see both sides of it. But I do understand that Germany wants to protect its reputation, and wants to reassure the world that history will not repeat itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're not discussing medical facts where there's an action and a reaction, Saigon. We're talking about widely distributed accounts from history drawn from witness testimony during a period of enormous upheaval and chaos. There's ample room for dispute.
> 
> I have consistently maintained throughout this thread that I believe that European Jewry were indeed herded into cattle trucks and gassed in concentration camps under explicit edicts from Nazi High Command. But I've also stated that I don't buy into the whole story and that there are some causes for doubt, and some exaggarations of events and data. Many others hold similar doubts. But it remains a fact that there is a widely known (not to mention ugly) exception to the rule concerning historical research and re-examination, with countless column inches bearing testimony to the consequences of drawing the Holocaust into doubt.
Click to expand...


I was just commenting to another member here that I have no problem with skepticism.  None of us should accept without question what the authorities want us to believe.

But in the case of the Holocaust, after helping do the research myself and looking into the eyes of a credible and honorable person who was there, I no longer have any doubts about the Holocaust, the methods, or the numbers.  We have the census records of the numbers of Jews who lived in Germany and Poland prior to and at the beginning of the war, and we know pretty close how many were left after the war.

When the German government does not dispute the worst of the evidence available, or attempt to explain it away, I see that as further evidence that the official accounts are at least very close to accurate.  I disaprove of Germany or anybody else making skepticism a crime, but then I am blessed with living in a country where free speech and thought is an unalienable right.


----------



## Sunni Man

Saigon said:


> What one has to understand is that most "revisionists" are doing research entirely for poltical reasons. That doesn't make genuine historical research very easy to do!


You're are extremely naive if you don't realize that the official holocaust story is deeply rooted in a political agenda........


----------



## Swagger

Saigon said:


> Swagger -
> 
> I don't know what cause for doubt there could be about any of the substantive facts; I really don't.
> 
> I would also dispute that "many others hold similar doubts". Putting to one side the Neo-Nazis and right wing groups who have no actual interest in the history, I think the numbers of people who have genuine doubts about the historical facts of the Holocaust would be negligable.
> 
> I'm in no way blaming or criticising you here - I just can't imagine what you might doubt.



There are many documented inconsistencies. It has been proven, thanks to historical "revision" that Simon Wiesenthal (Nazi Hunter-in-chief, no less) lied about how many camps he was held in. He claimed that he was held in eleven. Yet those "meticulous" records the Nazis were infamous for revealed that he'd only been held in five. It has also been claimed in numerous written accounts - some of which were best sellers - by the author that they were paired with other children and taken for examination by the Angel of Death. However, those meticulous records we keep reading about in this thread revealed that Mengele and his staff were only interested in examining identical twins, not a pair of children who'd never met, let alone didn't share identical features.

And although I agree with you that a lot of these "deniers" do indeed harbour Nazi or anti-Semitic sympathies, a lot of those that don't are soon labelled as such by the media as soon as their contentious research arises.


----------



## Sunni Man

Foxfyre said:


> When the German government does not dispute the worst of the evidence available, or attempt to explain it away, I see that as further evidence that the official accounts are at least very close to accurate.


LOL, the German government is scared to death of saying anything that could be misconstrued as being anti-semitic or controversial on any issue concerning the so called holocaust.........


----------



## Swagger

Foxfyre said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger -
> 
> Put it this way - if you set out tomorrow to prove that smoking does not cause cancer, you're going to find it difficult. It may not be impossible, and you may even find something, but its going to be hard work - because you are trying to disprove something that has already been proven by 1,000 other studies.
> 
> There is simply no dispute, no contoversy and no argument about how many people died, or how they died, or where.
> 
> As for the laws, it's a tough issue and I can see both sides of it. But I do understand that Germany wants to protect its reputation, and wants to reassure the world that history will not repeat itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're not discussing medical facts where there's an action and a reaction, Saigon. We're talking about widely distributed accounts from history drawn from witness testimony during a period of enormous upheaval and chaos. There's ample room for dispute.
> 
> I have consistently maintained throughout this thread that I believe that European Jewry were indeed herded into cattle trucks and gassed in concentration camps under explicit edicts from Nazi High Command. But I've also stated that I don't buy into the whole story and that there are some causes for doubt, and some exaggarations of events and data. Many others hold similar doubts. But it remains a fact that there is a widely known (not to mention ugly) exception to the rule concerning historical research and re-examination, with countless column inches bearing testimony to the consequences of drawing the Holocaust into doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just commenting to another member here that I have no problem with skepticism.  None of us should accept without question what the authorities want us to believe.
> 
> But in the case of the Holocaust, after helping do the research myself and looking into the eyes of a credible and honorable person who was there, I no longer have any doubts about the Holocaust, the methods, or the numbers.  We have the census records of the numbers of Jews who lived in Germany and Poland prior to and at the beginning of the war, and we know pretty close how many were left after the war.
> 
> When the German government does not dispute the worst of the evidence available, or attempt to explain it away, I see that as further evidence that the official accounts are at least very close to accurate.  I disaprove of Germany or anybody else making skepticism a crime, *but then I am blessed with living in a country where free speech and thought is an unalienable right*.
Click to expand...


Indeed you do.

But there's a vast difference between successive German governments and the Nazi Party that ruled over Germany during the period, and events, under discussion. The Nazi Party was a brutal dictatorship that had nothing to fear from a free press. They controlled the press and any dissenting journalists or leading figures joined the Jews in the camps. 

The German government of today is elected by people who don't live under threat of disappearing during the night. And the German press is free to sharply criticise and ruin the reputations of ministers freely elected by the German people. Anyone wishing to remain in the mainstream (politics or otherwise) won't risk incurring the wrath of the international media and being labelled a Nazi (that particular accusation carries extra weight if you happen to be German, which both accusers and recipients are well aware of in advance). To cut a long story short, until the threat of being accused of holding Nazi beliefs or sympathies is removed or defused, the German government and people will remain emotionally enslaved by the Holocaust's legacy. They will do literally anything to avoid the big N-word. Each and every member of the German government stands to lose everything if they even so much as raised an eyebrow at events we're told are set in stone concerning the Holocaust.


----------



## SAYIT

Foxfyre said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger -
> 
> Put it this way - if you set out tomorrow to prove that smoking does not cause cancer, you're going to find it difficult. It may not be impossible, and you may even find something, but its going to be hard work - because you are trying to disprove something that has already been proven by 1,000 other studies.
> 
> There is simply no dispute, no contoversy and no argument about how many people died, or how they died, or where.
> 
> As for the laws, it's a tough issue and I can see both sides of it. But I do understand that Germany wants to protect its reputation, and wants to reassure the world that history will not repeat itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're not discussing medical facts where there's an action and a reaction, Saigon. We're talking about widely distributed accounts from history drawn from witness testimony during a period of enormous upheaval and chaos. There's ample room for dispute.
> 
> I have consistently maintained throughout this thread that I believe that European Jewry were indeed herded into cattle trucks and gassed in concentration camps under explicit edicts from Nazi High Command. But I've also stated that I don't buy into the whole story and that there are some causes for doubt, and some exaggarations of events and data. Many others hold similar doubts. But it remains a fact that there is a widely known (not to mention ugly) exception to the rule concerning historical research and re-examination, with countless column inches bearing testimony to the consequences of drawing the Holocaust into doubt.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was just commenting to another member here that I have no problem with skepticism.  None of us should accept without question what the authorities want us to believe.
> 
> But in the case of the Holocaust, after helping do the research myself and looking into the eyes of a credible and honorable person who was there, I no longer have any doubts about the Holocaust, the methods, or the numbers.  We have the census records of the numbers of Jews who lived in Germany and Poland prior to and at the beginning of the war, and we know pretty close how many were left after the war.
> 
> When the German government does not dispute the worst of the evidence available, or attempt to explain it away, I see that as further evidence that the official accounts are at least very close to accurate.  I disaprove of Germany or anybody else making skepticism a crime, but then I am blessed with living in a country where free speech and thought is an unalienable right.
Click to expand...


One can only wonder why the Nazis, fully engaged in a debilitating two-front war, would waste time and resources to seek out and transfer Europe's Jews to those "vacation" camps. Perhaps it was to protect them, eh?


----------



## SAYIT

Sunni Man said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What one has to understand is that most "revisionists" are doing research entirely for poltical reasons. That doesn't make genuine historical research very easy to do!
> 
> 
> 
> You're are extremely naive if you don't realize that the official holocaust story is deeply rooted in a political agenda........
Click to expand...


In fact, the "official holocaust story" is deeply rooted in facts, something the Denier Movement just can't seem to get around.


----------



## Saigon

Sunni Man said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What one has to understand is that most "revisionists" are doing research entirely for poltical reasons. That doesn't make genuine historical research very easy to do!
> 
> 
> 
> You're are extremely naive if you don't realize that the official holocaust story is deeply rooted in a political agenda........
Click to expand...


And yet I am the one of us who has been to Auschwitz, to Birkenau, to Plasow, to Babi Yar - while you have stayed home. 

I call that näive.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What one has to understand is that most "revisionists" are doing research entirely for poltical reasons. That doesn't make genuine historical research very easy to do!
> 
> 
> 
> You're are extremely naive if you don't realize that the official holocaust story is deeply rooted in a political agenda........
Click to expand...


You are a liar.


----------



## Saigon

Swagger said:


> There are many documented inconsistencies. It has been proven, thanks to historical "revision" that Simon Wiesenthal (Nazi Hunter-in-chief, no less) lied about how many camps he was held in. He claimed that he was held in eleven. Yet those "meticulous" records the Nazis were infamous for revealed that he'd only been held in five. It has also been claimed in numerous written accounts - some of which were best sellers - by the author that they were paired with other children and taken for examination by the Angel of Death. However, those meticulous records we keep reading about in this thread revealed that Mengele and his staff were only interested in examining identical twins, not a pair of children who'd never met, let alone didn't share identical features.
> .



Yes, those kind of things can happen, of course.

I just don't see them as being terribly important really.


----------



## namvet

im glad Spielberg took the time to make Schindler's List which IMO is best ever Holocaust movie ever made. based on a true story and backed by witness's which deniers still hate. if you haven't seen it do !!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAM5q837enk]Steven Spielberg on Schindler's List - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Sunni Man

To the German people the jews were both traitors and the enemy.

The jewish bankers had stabbed Germany in the back during WWl leading to it's defeat.

And the Russian bolsheviks were almost all jews.

So totally eliminating them made perfect sense..........


----------



## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What one has to understand is that most "revisionists" are doing research entirely for poltical reasons. That doesn't make genuine historical research very easy to do!
> 
> 
> 
> You're are extremely naive if you don't realize that the official holocaust story is deeply rooted in a political agenda........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet I am the one of us who has been to Auschwitz, to Birkenau, to Plasow, to Bsbi Yar - while you have stayed home.
> 
> I call that näieve.
Click to expand...



Which is more distasteful, the anti-Semitic clown or the insufferably pretentious douchebag? 


You two deserve each other.


----------



## Foxfyre

SAYIT said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> We're not discussing medical facts where there's an action and a reaction, Saigon. We're talking about widely distributed accounts from history drawn from witness testimony during a period of enormous upheaval and chaos. There's ample room for dispute.
> 
> I have consistently maintained throughout this thread that I believe that European Jewry were indeed herded into cattle trucks and gassed in concentration camps under explicit edicts from Nazi High Command. But I've also stated that I don't buy into the whole story and that there are some causes for doubt, and some exaggarations of events and data. Many others hold similar doubts. But it remains a fact that there is a widely known (not to mention ugly) exception to the rule concerning historical research and re-examination, with countless column inches bearing testimony to the consequences of drawing the Holocaust into doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just commenting to another member here that I have no problem with skepticism.  None of us should accept without question what the authorities want us to believe.
> 
> But in the case of the Holocaust, after helping do the research myself and looking into the eyes of a credible and honorable person who was there, I no longer have any doubts about the Holocaust, the methods, or the numbers.  We have the census records of the numbers of Jews who lived in Germany and Poland prior to and at the beginning of the war, and we know pretty close how many were left after the war.
> 
> When the German government does not dispute the worst of the evidence available, or attempt to explain it away, I see that as further evidence that the official accounts are at least very close to accurate.  I disaprove of Germany or anybody else making skepticism a crime, but then I am blessed with living in a country where free speech and thought is an unalienable right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One can only wonder why the Nazis, fully engaged in a debilitating two-front war, would waste time and resources to seek out and transfer Europe's Jews to those "vacation" camps. Perhaps it was to protect them, eh?
Click to expand...


Most of the skeptics, not even Sunni, are questioning that the Jews were rounded up and imprisoned in camps.  The main components of skepticism are a) how many were actually killed and b) whether they were deliberately exterminated.   And Swagger raises a legitimate point that the modern German people are so determined to shake the Nazi label and image that they have utilized extreme measures to do that and disallow anything that could be interpreted as Nazi sympathizing.

And that is a credible rebuttal to my own question of why the Germans would protect the status quo re the Holocaust.

The Nazis themselves had no reasonable reason to rig the numbers though, and during the trials, no anti-Nazi doctrine had yet developed.

And the research done by those who have no ax to grind in the matter does support the official version of the facts.


----------



## Sunni Man

Saigon said:


> And yet I am the one of us who has been to Auschwitz, to Birkenau, to Plasow, to Bsbi Yar - while you have stayed home.
> 
> I call that näieve.


Big deal.

I have been to Disneyland

Which is based on a fantasy story; just like the places you claim to have visited.

But the only difference is that I got a T-shirt to prove it..........


----------



## Saigon

Foxfyre - 



> I was just commenting to another member here that I have no problem with skepticism. None of us should accept without question what the authorities want us to believe.



I totally agree.

But someone with a genuine curiosity can go to Birkenau, or to Yad Vashem or Dachau and learn the facts and reality. 

Strangely enough, "Revisionists" don't seem to want to do that. They want to read blogs from people who have never been there either.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet I am the one of us who has been to Auschwitz, to Birkenau, to Plasow, to Bsbi Yar - while you have stayed home.
> 
> I call that näieve.
> 
> 
> 
> Big deal.
> 
> I have been to Disneyland
> 
> Which is based on a fantasy story; just like the places you claim to have visited.
> 
> But the only difference is that I got a T-shirt to prove it..........
Click to expand...


Yes, and you'll get hell to prove you were a lying, anti-semite.  Most of us here won't be a witness to that one.  If I were you I'd make a public apology now and repent.  Better than the alternative. 

 - Jeremiah


----------



## MHunterB

Indofred said:


> It is interesting to see the extreme right such as David, I'm a daft fart, Duke and more extreme Muslim groups agreeing on this and even quoting each other in a positive way.
> Idiots.



Don't be silly, Fred - why wouldn't the Muslim fascists agree with the Christian fascists about making Jews the villains?


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> There *IS* serious and objective research taking place still.
> 
> 
> 
> If a serious university historian questions any aspect of the official holocaust story.
> 
> He will be immediately vilified as anti-semitic and a nazi.
> 
> And will lose his tenure and be fired on the spot.......
Click to expand...



Surely you have examples of such instances?  Where are your citations for such incidents?


----------



## Foxfyre

Saigon said:


> Foxfyre -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just commenting to another member here that I have no problem with skepticism. None of us should accept without question what the authorities want us to believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree.
> 
> But someone with a genuine curiosity can go to Birkenau, or to Yad Vashem or Dachau and learn the facts and reality.
> 
> Strangely enough, "Revisionists" don't seem to want to do that. They want to read blogs from people who have never been there either.
Click to expand...


Yes, and for those of us who will likely never have the opportunity to go to those places, and who really have no dog in the fight that would support any bias or prejudice one way or theother, there is a plethora of information provided by those who have been there and who have done extensive research in all the questioned areas.  And they all seem to arrive at the same conclusion that the official version is very close to the correct one.


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^ Truth hurts you fake Vietnam Vet.......



I am certain that the truth DOES hurt you in some way, Sunni - or you wouldn't lash out with such blatant personal attacks as the one above.


----------



## MHunterB

Swagger said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger, the 'question' is nonsense.  The people like David Irving are not 'being smeared by the press':  they are being excoriated by the serious scholars and researchers in the field.  A 'jury of their peers' continually finds the Irvings and Zundels  grossly flawed in their methodology.
> 
> It has nothing to do with 'the press' or 'the government'.
> 
> There *IS* serious and objective research taking place still.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With all due respect, you haven't even attempted to answer my question.
Click to expand...


With all due respect - NONE - I absolutely did respond.  Now stop beating your wife.


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni -
> 
> The deaths of five million non-Jewish prisoners has nothing whatsoever to do with Zionim, Judaism or Jews.
> 
> 
> 
> I never claimed it did.......
Click to expand...


Actually, you just did exactly that with your 'Zionist ideology' post.  

Question for you,:  How many lies can you repeat before you become a liar?   When you repeatedly lie to defame others, do you suppose that lying is pleasing to GOD?


----------



## MHunterB

Unkotare said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're are extremely naive if you don't realize that the official holocaust story is deeply rooted in a political agenda........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet I am the one of us who has been to Auschwitz, to Birkenau, to Plasow, to Bsbi Yar - while you have stayed home.
> 
> I call that näieve.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Which is more distasteful, the anti-Semitic clown or the insufferably pretentious douchebag?
> 
> 
> You two deserve each other.
Click to expand...


Saigon may indeed be 'pretentious' - but he is debating honestly here, not making stupid jabs at others.  Sunni, OTOH........ aong with Swagger, varelse, and that 'truthseeker' .


----------



## MHunterB

Swagger said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> With all due respect, you haven't even attempted to answer my question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With all due respect - NONE - I absolutely did respond.  Now stop beating your wife.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You did nothing of the sort. You just gave me some completely irrelevant guff, like you usually do. Now, be a good girl and cease trying to profit so shamelessly from the ashes of your spineless grandparents.
Click to expand...


Thanks, Swagger, for a brilliant example of the Chinese proverb:  "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent".


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

namvet said:


> im glad Spielberg took the time to make Schindler's List which IMO is best ever Holocaust movie ever made. based on a true story and backed by witness's which deniers still hate. if you haven't seen it do !!!
> 
> Steven Spielberg on Schindler's List - YouTube



It is an excellent film.  I agree.


----------



## Sunni Man

Jeremiah said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> im glad Spielberg took the time to make Schindler's List which IMO is best ever Holocaust movie ever made. based on a true story and backed by witness's which deniers still hate. if you haven't seen it do !!!
> 
> Steven Spielberg on Schindler's List - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is an excellent film.  I agree.
Click to expand...

Typical made in Hollywood fantasy movie based on a true story........


----------



## SAYIT

Swagger said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> With all due respect - NONE - I absolutely did respond.  Now stop beating your wife.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You did nothing of the sort. You just gave me some completely irrelevant guff, like you usually do. Now, be a good girl and cease trying to profit so shamelessly from the ashes of your spineless grandparents.
Click to expand...


Yeah, and "Sieg Heil" to you too, ya fuckin' goose-stepper.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

I hear Iran is being invaded by giant rats and Egypt is now under a plague of locusts.   Does the word judgment ring a bell with Muslims, Sunni man?


----------



## Sunni Man

*Just in time for Passover, Israel braces for locust invasion*

JERUSALEM &#8212; With Passover just three weeks away, the timing of a massive infestation of locusts in Egypt is striking many Israelis as downright biblical.

Millions of the grasshopper-like insects swarmed Israel&#8217;s southern neighbor, damaging crops. Some have since made their way to southern Israel.

Though Israeli agricultural experts are on high alert and fear that the locusts could devastate crops, many Israelis have been more laid back, with some noting that some varieties of the leggy pests are kosher.

&#8220;Not only does the Torah permit man to eat certain mammals, birds and fish, but it even permits him to eat certain insects &#8212; namely several types of locusts,&#8221; Rabbi Natan Slifkin wrote in The Times of Israel.

Just in time for Passover, Israel braces for locust invasion - The Washington Post


----------



## cereal_killer

*Enough with the off topic insults and inflammatory posts. Infractions and/or bans will be given out if it continues. Thank you.*


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> *Just in time for Passover, Israel braces for locust invasion*
> 
> JERUSALEM  With Passover just three weeks away, the timing of a massive infestation of locusts in Egypt is striking many Israelis as downright biblical.
> 
> Millions of the grasshopper-like insects swarmed Israels southern neighbor, damaging crops. Some have since made their way to southern Israel.
> 
> Though Israeli agricultural experts are on high alert and fear that the locusts could devastate crops, many Israelis have been more laid back, with some noting that some varieties of the leggy pests are kosher.
> 
> Not only does the Torah permit man to eat certain mammals, birds and fish, but it even permits him to eat certain insects  namely several types of locusts, Rabbi Natan Slifkin wrote in The Times of Israel.
> 
> Just in time for Passover, Israel braces for locust invasion - The Washington Post



The plague of locusts hit Egypt.  The likelihood of it hitting Israel is highly unlikely.  She isn't under judgment. Egypt is.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Sunni Man

Israel is going to have a huge Judgement Day very soon.

It has allowed idols throughout the land, sponsors gay parades, rabbis perform same sex marriages, and most of the Israeli citizens are secular and atheist.

It has happened to them before and will happen again.........


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni man, worry about your own backyard.  You've got giant rats in Tehran overtaking govt buildings running loose everywhere, you've got locusts devouring the crops of Egypt in a plague of biblical proportions, your own people have been the borrowers not the lenders  - biblical sign of a curse - with no sign of any improvements.  Mind your own business and clean up your own back yard.  G-d is obviously not impressed.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Sunni Man

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni man, *worry about your own backyard. * You've got giant rats in Tehran overtaking govt buildings running loose everywhere, you've got locusts devouring the crops of Egypt in a plague of biblical proportions, your own people have been the borrowers not the lenders  - biblical sign of a curse - with no sign of any improvements.  Mind your own business and clean up your own back yard.  G-d is obviously not impressed.  - Jeremiah


Kinda funny, you are an American and all worried about Israel.

So why don't you take your own advice and worry about your own backyard.??.........


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni man, *worry about your own backyard. * You've got giant rats in Tehran overtaking govt buildings running loose everywhere, you've got locusts devouring the crops of Egypt in a plague of biblical proportions, your own people have been the borrowers not the lenders  - biblical sign of a curse - with no sign of any improvements.  Mind your own business and clean up your own back yard.  G-d is obviously not impressed.  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda funny, you are an American and all worried about Israel.
> 
> So why don't you take your own advice and worry about your own backyard.??.........
Click to expand...


We are. Muslims make up less than 1% of the population in the Americas. We intend to keep it that way.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

This is my backyard.  You just get to live here.   Welcome to America.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Sunni Man

Jeremiah said:


> This is my backyard.  You just get to live here.   Welcome to America.  - Jeremiah


Actually, my ancestors go back to before the Civil War.

So welcome to my back yard J-man .........


----------



## SAYIT

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my backyard.  You just get to live here.   Welcome to America.  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, my ancestors go back to before the Civil War.
> 
> So welcome to my back yard J-man .........
Click to expand...


Which civil war would that be? Lebanon's? Syria's?


----------



## Sunni Man

SAYIT said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my backyard.  You just get to live here.   Welcome to America.  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, my ancestors go back to before the Civil War.
> 
> So welcome to my back yard J-man .........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which civil war would that be? Lebanon's? Syria's?
Click to expand...

We traced our ancestry back to Missouri before the Civil War. 

He left his family and went off to fight but never returned.....MIA

I just hope he didn't fight for the Union.

Missouri was a border state and people fought on both sides in the war.

So I like to believe he joined the Confederacy.........


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my backyard.  You just get to live here.   Welcome to America.  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, my ancestors go back to before the Civil War.
> 
> So welcome to my back yard J-man .........
Click to expand...


The black man was not originally Muslim.  He was the slave of Muslims.  Abd means slave in Arabic.  It also means black man.  So much for that.  Read up on your own history.  Mohammad called the black man raisin heads.  Find a religion that likes you at least.  

-Jeremiah


----------



## Sunni Man

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my backyard.  You just get to live here.   Welcome to America.  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, my ancestors go back to before the Civil War.
> 
> So welcome to my back yard J-man .........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The black man was not originally Muslim.  He was the slave of Muslims.  Abd means slave in Arabic.  It also means black man.  So much for that.  Read up on your own history.  Mohammad called the black man raisin heads.  Find a religion that likes you at least.
Click to expand...

1) I am a white mam.

2) Never said that blacks were originally muslims.

3) Get a life........


----------



## varelse

Saigon said:


> It's difficult for Holocaust "Revisionists" to produce academic work because 99% of what Revisionists publish has no basis in anything except politics.



The missing soap story that was debunked...

The shrunken human heads...

Missing Prussian Blue stains in alleged homicidal gassing chambers, while the stains are still visible in the delousing chambers...

The changing of the plaque at A-B...

The use of the 6 Million number before WWII...



> What one has to understand is that most "revisionists" are doing research entirely for poltical reasons. That doesn't make genuine historical research very easy to do!



How much money do the Jews _still_ get in reparations and fundings for the holocaust story? Not to mention justification for their actions in Palestine- you know, doing the same thing as the Germans. That doesn't raise questions, especially given that the NYT- who published this article- is owned, published, and controlled by Jews? Just go to the NYT wikipedia page and look up the names listed to the right.


----------



## varelse

Jeremiah said:


> .   This is the heart of Islam, people.  Which is why Islam has no place in our society. It cannot co -exist respectfully with people who are not followers of Islam and cannot rest until it murders all Islam has condemned to death.


They got those laws from the Torah.

Just sayin'.



namvet said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bravo, Jeremiah - excellent point!
> 
> 
> 
> Simple
> 
> The Muhammad cartoons slanders a revered religious figure.
> 
> Whereas, holocaust cartoons lambast an alleged historial event and zionist ideology.
> 
> Big difference........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> which PROVES your a racist
Click to expand...


Actually, it just makes him a religious bigot, not a racist.

technically


----------



## MHunterB

What's it to you, Varelse, how the Germans choose to spend their money?


----------



## varelse

Foxfyre said:


> The Nazis themselves had no reasonable reason to rig the numbers though


I disagree. Officers in charge certainly wanted to look good, and in a performance-based bureaucracy, that can oft mean exaggerations that make you look extra 'productive' or make your failure excusable.

There is a reason most historians are highly skeptical of the body counts and kill-ratios claimed by generals on both sides of historical conflicts.
Best to go with the available evidence- forensics, reliable populations counts before and after, that sort of thing, rather than expecting any involved parties to be 100% reliable and interested only in factual accuracy. What I'm saying is I don't believe anybody who was _involved_ can be _disinterested_.


----------



## varelse

MHunterB said:


> What's it to you, Varelse, how the Germans choose to spend their money?


Was that supposed to be a rational response to something?


----------



## MHunterB

Since you brought up the topic of reparations to victims of the Holocaust.....  which BTW I understood it wasn't *only* Jewish individuals getting the payments.


----------



## varelse

Germans don't choose to give their money away, they are extorted by persons who- as the primary recipient of those funds- have an economic interest in propagating the official story.


----------



## MHunterB

Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There isn't anything in here to suggest 'extortion':  the agreement which the German government signed appears to have been *voluntary* and not 'ordered' by any UN or any other international body.

The German individuals I've spoken to through the years were proud of the efforts of their postwar government to repair some of the damages to people's lives.


----------



## MHunterB

varelse said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Nazis themselves had no reasonable reason to rig the numbers though
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. Officers in charge certainly wanted to look good, and in a performance-based bureaucracy, that can oft mean exaggerations that make you look extra 'productive' or make your failure excusable.
> 
> There is a reason most historians are highly skeptical of the body counts and kill-ratios claimed by generals on both sides of historical conflicts.
> Best to go with the available evidence- forensics, reliable populations counts before and after, that sort of thing, rather than expecting any involved parties to be 100% reliable and interested only in factual accuracy. What I'm saying is I don't believe anybody who was _involved_ can be _disinterested_.
Click to expand...


But the historians aren't dealing with 'body counts' by generals:  they have been dealing with very tiny pieces of the overall picture, complete with a high level of detail in most cases.  Nor does anyone ever expect such things to be 100% reliable.

Have you studied any of the social sciences?  How much do you know of their methodology?


----------



## Indofred

OK - let's go for it.

I want an account from a non extremist pillock, with links to solid evidence, that the holocaust was a lie.

I don't expect anyone will manage it.

It happened
It is a truth


----------



## Saigon

Varelse - 

You must realise yourself that the German camp records turn everything you have said on this thread into mush. 

We can check names, dates, times of people being murdered. Do you know on Hitler's birthday they shot a prisoner every 2 minutes?

It is all recorded. 

Why "Revisionists" continue to argue and whine I have absolutely no idea. 

And no, "Revisionists" have never uncovered a thing of any value. Of course you might find the odd detail here and there that people have got wrong. Ok, so some prisoners suspected the bodies were being turned into soap and they were wrong - but their assumption was not a bad one, surely?

btw. Which camps have you been to?


----------



## varelse

Saigon said:


> Ok, so some prisoners suspected the bodies were being turned into soap and they were wrong - but their assumption was not a bad one, surely?


It's not a bad assumption to assume that people are being turned into soap?

Do you accept Soylent Green as a reasonable account of the 1960s in the US, less a few minor details? 

Again, half the 'death camps' have been admitted to not being 'death camps'- everything in Allied hands after the war, actually. Only those camps the Soviets took over were still claimed to be 'death camps' in the official tale.

The lamp shades, shrunken heads, and soap prove that just because it was said during the Nuremberg Show Trials doesn't mean it's true, making the NST meaningless when you try to point at them as though they or anything presented there- such as Hoess' torture 'confession'- with all its obvious contradictions- as evidence of anything.

You claim homicidal gas chambers at A-B. Why do they show no signs of ferrocyanide (prussian blue), while the delousing chambers do? Why are they not airtight? Why do the doors open _inward_? Why do 'witnesses' claim soldiers without protection entered immediately and removed corpses, unaffected by the cyanide gas that should have killed them? 

You point at ovens and claim that getting rid of bodies means genocide, although most american cities have crematoriums today and burning diseased bodies has long been standard practice to attempt to limit the spread of disease- and typhus was still a problem after the Allies took over the camps. You point at emaciated persons but ignore allied bombing of the supply lines. You insist on a certain number, yet admit that the official story at A-B already changed, along with the plaque, that numbers were all over the place from the beginning, and that the '6 million' number goes back to before WWII and can be legitimately questioned as to its accuracy. You can't explain why the Germans would destroy the foundation of their wartime production (forced labor) from the beginning or why international Jewry- in the form of Zionists organizations calling for the occupation of Palestine- would propose alliance with Germany if Germany was actively trying to exterminate the Jews- or why Germany would bother putting many Jews on a boat and sending them to friendly lands, even Palestine, so that each People could pursue its own destiny in its own lands. You ignore the roots of both Nazism and Zionism, which grew from the same movements and has the same central aims- ethnic nationalism and ethnic cleansing of the lands of the respective Folk in the name of racial hygiene.

When presented with these things, you ignore them and claim no legitimate points or questions have been raised. Then you wonder why we find it difficult to believe you have any interest in honest, intelligent, informed discussion of the events in question.


----------



## Saigon

Varelse - 

The idea that a country would round up eleven million people and exterminate them seems ridiculous - but we know it happened. The idea of surgically joining twins together is ridiculous - but we know it happened. 

Given the time and the place and the fear prisoners must have felt - I don't find the theory that prisoners were being turned into soap particularly surprising. 

We know from German camp records that six million Jews were exterminated. We know that most were executed - because the records detail cause of death. Many died of typhus and starvation, of course, and this is also recorded. We know how many peopled died because both transports and camps recorded these numbers. 

Everything we need to know about the Holocaust we can ascertain from German sources and records alone. It is as simple as that.

btw. All of the points here have clear and largely obvious answers that you can find from a dozen reliable souces. I can go through them for you if you wish. Assume everything you have been told about the camps is wrong. Most "Revisionist" writers have never been there, and none have ever conducted research there. Go and see for yourself. I did.


----------



## Saigon

> You can't explain why the Germans would destroy the foundation of their wartime production (forced labor)



The people too weak, ill, young or old to work were gassed. Troublemakers were simply shot. 

Those fit to work, were forced to work.


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is my backyard.  You just get to live here.   Welcome to America.  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, my ancestors go back to before the Civil War.
> 
> So welcome to my back yard J-man .........
Click to expand...


So in other words, you're not only a traitor to the US, but to your ancestors as well.


----------



## MHunterB

mememe said:


> LOL!
> 
> The Independent said, US Museum of Holocaust recently did a bit more "research" and found additional 42 000 death camps, prisons, etc. where Jews were "holocausted". It means additional few millions of "holocausted" who will now require ...   COMPENSATION!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I simply LOVE the way Jews address the problem of financial and economic crisis!



And your factual basis for this 'conclusion' is????   Aside from the Soviet propaganda, I mean........


----------



## Truthseeker420

namvet said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too many people around who were in these terrible camps to even think about a lie about them never being there.
> My Polish uncle was in one as a forced labourer and I have no reason to suggest he made it up.
> I've met Jews who were in the camps. They were either the best actors in the world or it's true.
> Personally, I believe the looks on their faces and my guts.
> The holocaust memorial days were an eye opener. Interesting events because the local government would use them to promote understanding between all local groups.
> This was before I converted to Islam but local Muslims attended.
> 
> The camps were there and millions were killed.
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.
> 
> My main contention is:
> 
> 1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.
> 
> 2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.
> 
> 3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.
> 
> 4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> don't forget to tell them your a muslim
Click to expand...

his screen name doesn't make him muslim no more than you are a namvet.


----------



## ima

Truthseeker420 said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.
> 
> My main contention is:
> 
> 1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.
> 
> 2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.
> 
> 3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.
> 
> 4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't forget to tell them your a muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> his screen name doesn't make him muslim no more than you are a namvet.
Click to expand...


Sunni told me that he has no beard. No beard = not muslim.


----------



## namvet

Truthseeker420 said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.
> 
> My main contention is:
> 
> 1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.
> 
> 2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.
> 
> 3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.
> 
> 4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't forget to tell them your a muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> his screen name doesn't make him muslim no more than you are a namvet.
Click to expand...


define Sunni and throw in Dar al Harb


----------



## varelse




----------



## namvet

ima said:


> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> don't forget to tell them your a muslim
> 
> 
> 
> his screen name doesn't make him muslim no more than you are a namvet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sunni told me that he has no beard. No beard = not muslim.
Click to expand...


I have some real estate for sell in Iran, interested???


----------



## ima

namvet said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthseeker420 said:
> 
> 
> 
> his screen name doesn't make him muslim no more than you are a namvet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni told me that he has no beard. No beard = not muslim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have some real estate for sell in Iran, interested???
Click to expand...


Maybe, where and how much?


----------



## Saigon

Sunni isn't getting too many answers to his questions....

1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.

_Even Holocaust Denier David Irving admitted that at least 4 million Jews were killed. Hannah Arendt's figure of 5.7 milion Jews is considered to be the lowest credible figure._

2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.

_The chambers at Birkenau were hit by allied bombing, and thus much evidence was lost. Given we have German camp records, statements from German guards, Jewish prisoners and Allied soldiers (Dachau), plus the gas canisters and shower heads, I can't imagine what evidence you might need. Had there ever been any doubt, they would have been checked out, of course, but keep in mind even Holocaust Deniers (Pressac) have admitted there were gassings._

3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.

_Is not ideal, but Germany needs to protect its reputation. The laws only apply in Germany and Austria, from memory. _

4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.

_That is just silly. The holocaust is the most analyszed and studied event in human history. _


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Truthseeker420 said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.
> 
> My main contention is:
> 
> 1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.
> 
> 2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.
> 
> 3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.
> 
> 4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't forget to tell them your a muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> his screen name doesn't make him muslim no more than you are a namvet.
Click to expand...



His anti semitic writings here sure do though.  Therefore his comment was a valid one. 

 - J.


----------



## namvet

ima said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni told me that he has no beard. No beard = not muslim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have some real estate for sell in Iran, interested???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe, where and how much?
Click to expand...


belongs to Ahmadinejad - he'll fill in the bomb crater. dirt cheap


----------



## SAYIT

Truthseeker420 said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree that the camps were there and many inmates died of starvation, disease, and over work.
> 
> My main contention is:
> 
> 1) The numbers of the deaths are extremely inflated.
> 
> 2) There is zero forensic evidence for the gas chambers.
> 
> 3) Putting people in prison for having contrary views about an historical event.
> 
> 4) Not allowing scholars to objectively review the holocaust; as has been done with everything else in history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't forget to tell them your a muslim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> his screen name doesn't make him muslim no more than you are a namvet.
Click to expand...


Perhaps Sunni isn't really a Muslim but he says he is. Do you have anything which substantiates your claims about namvet or are you just talking out of your ass?


----------



## Sunni Man

Countries where Holocaust denial is illegal

Austria
Belgium
Czech Rep.
France
Germany
Israhell
Lithuania
Bosnia 
Herzegovina
Luxembourg
Poland
Slovakia
Switzerland
Lithuania
Netherlands
Romania
Spain
Canada
UK


----------



## ima

namvet said:


> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have some real estate for sell in Iran, interested???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, where and how much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> belongs to Ahmadinejad - he'll fill in the bomb crater. dirt cheap
Click to expand...


How many acres and how much? I like the crater, plus, water close to the surface. Nice flat area...


----------



## Saigon

Sunni - 

I'm not sure about the legitimacy of that list...I suspect exactly what is illegal is very different from place to place.

Hate speech may be illegal in the UK, but plenty of so-called "Revisionists" live and work there.


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> Countries where Holocaust denial is illegal
> 
> Austria
> Belgium
> Czech Rep.
> France
> Germany
> Israhell
> Lithuania
> Bosnia
> Herzegovina
> Luxembourg
> Poland
> Slovakia
> Switzerland
> Lithuania
> Netherlands
> Romania
> Spain
> Canada
> UK



What about all the countries where it's illegal to convert from Islam? I'm sure it's longer.


----------



## Sunni Man

Saigon said:


> Sunni -
> 
> I'm not sure about the legitimacy of that list...I suspect exactly what is illegal is very different from place to place.
> 
> Hate speech may be illegal in the UK, but plenty of so-called "Revisionists" live and work there.


The European Union's executive Commission proposed a European Union-wide anti-racism xenophobia law in 2001, which included the criminalization of Holocaust denial. On July 15, 1996, the Council of the European Union adopted the Joint action/96/443/JHA concerning action to combat racism and xenophobia.

Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> Countries where Holocaust denial is illegal
> 
> Austria
> Belgium
> Czech Rep.
> France
> Germany
> *Israhell*
> Lithuania
> Bosnia
> Herzegovina
> Luxembourg
> Poland
> Slovakia
> Switzerland
> Lithuania
> Netherlands
> Romania
> Spain
> Canada
> UK



Sunni is obviously bigoted, or he wouldn't have taken the time to change the name of just one nation on the list......

A fairly diverse group of nations......


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni -
> 
> I'm not sure about the legitimacy of that list...I suspect exactly what is illegal is very different from place to place.
> 
> Hate speech may be illegal in the UK, but plenty of so-called "Revisionists" live and work there.
> 
> 
> 
> The European Union's executive Commission proposed a European Union-wide anti-racism xenophobia law in 2001, which included the criminalization of Holocaust denial. On July 15, 1996, the Council of the European Union adopted the Joint action/96/443/JHA concerning action to combat racism and xenophobia.
> 
> Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


You forgot to mention that we passed laws outlawing sharia too. Some countries even passed laws to outlaw putting a sheet over your women. It must suck to be a muslim in the west. Good.


----------



## MHunterB

I believe the list should include Australia as well?


----------



## Saigon

Sunni - 

Fair enough - that does like legitimate, except for the UK. 

I know it is a difficult issue, but I am sure you are also opposed to racism and hate speech against your own people. I don't have a problem with it.


----------



## Foxfyre

varelse said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Nazis themselves had no reasonable reason to rig the numbers though
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree. Officers in charge certainly wanted to look good, and in a performance-based bureaucracy, that can oft mean exaggerations that make you look extra 'productive' or make your failure excusable.
> 
> There is a reason most historians are highly skeptical of the body counts and kill-ratios claimed by generals on both sides of historical conflicts.
> Best to go with the available evidence- forensics, reliable populations counts before and after, that sort of thing, rather than expecting any involved parties to be 100% reliable and interested only in factual accuracy. What I'm saying is I don't believe anybody who was _involved_ can be _disinterested_.
Click to expand...


I meant the Nazis who testified during the trials after the war ended.  THEY certainly had no obvious motive to escalate the numbers.     As for the records themselves, who knows?  But given the brutality of the Nazi regime and how harshly they dealt with lawbreakers, I would guess officials did not try to cheat much and risk getting caught.


----------



## Sunni Man

Foxfyre said:


> I meant the Nazis who testified during the trials after the war ended.  THEY certainly had no obvious motive to escalate the numbers.


They were imprisoned, tortured. and facing the death penalty by hanging.

So of course they had no motive to try and save their lives by saying and signing anything they were told........


----------



## Swagger

Sunni Man said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni -
> 
> I'm not sure about the legitimacy of that list...I suspect exactly what is illegal is very different from place to place.
> 
> Hate speech may be illegal in the UK, but plenty of so-called "Revisionists" live and work there.
> 
> 
> 
> The European Union's executive Commission proposed a European Union-wide anti-racism xenophobia law in 2001, which included the criminalization of Holocaust denial. On July 15, 1996, the Council of the European Union adopted the Joint action/96/443/JHA concerning action to combat racism and xenophobia.
> 
> Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


There is no legislation covering Holocaust Denial in the United Kingdom. Otherwise the leader of the BNP and European Minister, Nick Griffin, would've been put behind bars a long time ago. 

You're at liberty to deny the Holocaust. But, along with every other nation in the Western world, even the United States, you'll have your reputation dragged through the mud by the national and international media as a result of questioning the version of events in that particular period of modern history. Strange (suspicious, even) how incredibly selective the media are in their ire concerning the re-examination of history.


----------



## namvet

ima said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ima said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, where and how much?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> belongs to Ahmadinejad - he'll fill in the bomb crater. dirt cheap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How many acres and how much? I like the crater, plus, water close to the surface. Nice flat area...
Click to expand...


since he supports Obozo it now up to 10 trillion. also there's a nuke plant next door with a bulls eye on top for the IDF


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Anyone who does not believe the holocaust happened is either a liar or incredibly naive.  Hard to believe anyone could doubt it after all the evidence, eyewitnesses, survivor testimonies.  

Those who deny it have an agenda.  Imo.  

-Jeremiah


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> I meant the Nazis who testified during the trials after the war ended.  THEY certainly had no obvious motive to escalate the numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> They were imprisoned, tortured. and facing the death penalty by hanging.
> 
> So of course they had no motive to try and save their lives by saying and signing anything they were told........
Click to expand...


you making bread again ???


----------



## Saigon

Swagger said:


> There is no legislation covering Holocaust Denial in the United Kingdom. Otherwise the leader of the BNP and European Minister, Nick Griffin, would've been put behind bars a long time ago.
> 
> You're at liberty to deny the Holocaust. But, along with every other nation in the Western world, even the United States, you'll have your reputation dragged through the mud by the national and international media as a result of questioning the version of events in that particular period of modern history. Strange (suspicious, even) how incredibly selective the media are in their ire concerning the re-examination of history.



I was thinking that was probably true of the UK. 

I don't know what you mean by selective media though. In general I don't think the public or media have much time for people who are out-and-out lying, whether it is denying that straight people can get AIDS, claiming Israelis were responsible for 9/11, claiming CO2 is good for us, or that the Holocause never happened. 

Society has moved on from those issues with general consensus, and I don't see a problem with that. It doesn't mean any new angle wouldn't be explored or published if it had merit.


----------



## Swagger

Jeremiah said:


> Anyone who does not believe the holocaust happened is either a liar or incredibly naive.  Hard to believe anyone could doubt it after all the evidence, eyewitnesses, survivor testimonies.
> 
> Those who deny it have an agenda.  Imo.
> 
> -Jeremiah



Perhaps. But what about those who tirelessly attack those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing? If the official narrative is so firmly rooted in the truth, why go to such lengths to discredit and destroy those who oppose disagree? Surely such facts will stand-up against any additional scrutiny?


----------



## Unkotare

Swagger said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who does not believe the holocaust happened is either a liar or incredibly naive.  Hard to believe anyone could doubt it after all the evidence, eyewitnesses, survivor testimonies.
> 
> Those who deny it have an agenda.  Imo.
> 
> -Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps. But what about those who tirelessly attack those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing? If the official narrative is so firmly rooted in the truth, why go to such lengths to discredit and destroy those who oppose disagree? Surely such facts will stand-up against any additional scrutiny?
Click to expand...




Nothing worse than a whiny wannabe-Nazi.


----------



## Sunni Man

As the so called holocaust survivors die off due to age.

And the alleged event becomes ancient history.

The arcane holocaust denial laws will slowly be rescinded.

Thus allowing for true unfettered scholarly discussions to take place as to what really happened and why they happened..........


----------



## Saigon

Swagger said:


> [
> 
> Perhaps. But what about those who tirelessly attack those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing? If the official narrative is so firmly rooted in the truth, why go to such lengths to discredit and destroy those who oppose disagree? Surely such facts will stand-up against any additional scrutiny?



They do stand up.  (I've done more research on this than most as I once spent a summer writing a history of the city of Cracow). 

I think the main reason for the attacks and occasional overkill is the link between Holocaust Denial and Neo-Nazis. A LOT of apparent "historical research" has purely and simply been about attacking Jews and promoting a Fourth Reich. 

Ernst Zundel is a classic example of this, but there are others.


----------



## Swagger

Saigon said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legislation covering Holocaust Denial in the United Kingdom. Otherwise the leader of the BNP and European Minister, Nick Griffin, would've been put behind bars a long time ago.
> 
> You're at liberty to deny the Holocaust. But, along with every other nation in the Western world, even the United States, you'll have your reputation dragged through the mud by the national and international media as a result of questioning the version of events in that particular period of modern history. Strange (suspicious, even) how incredibly selective the media are in their ire concerning the re-examination of history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking that was probably true of the UK.
> 
> I don't know what you mean by selective media though. In general I don't think the public or media have much time for people who are out-and-out lying, whether it is denying that straight people can get AIDS, claiming Israelis were responsible for 9/11, claiming CO2 is good for us, or that the Holocause never happened.
> 
> Society has moved on from those issues with general consensus, and I don't see a problem with that. It doesn't mean any new angle wouldn't be explored or published if it had merit.
Click to expand...


Society may have moved-on, but the press certainly haven't.

You'd be either incredibly out-of-touch or incredibly dishonest if you argued against the liklihood of a politician, historian or celebrity going on public record and saying that they had doubts over events, data and/or witness testimony surrounding the Holocaust without incurring the indignant wrath of the international media.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Unkotare said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who does not believe the holocaust happened is either a liar or incredibly naive.  Hard to believe anyone could doubt it after all the evidence, eyewitnesses, survivor testimonies.
> 
> Those who deny it have an agenda.  Imo.
> 
> -Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps. But what about those who tirelessly attack those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing? If the official narrative is so firmly rooted in the truth, why go to such lengths to discredit and destroy those who oppose disagree? Surely such facts will stand-up against any additional scrutiny?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So true and why shouldn't we go to whatever length necessary to dispel the rumors, lies that holocaust revisionists are busily trying to sell the world as truth?  I'm not going to sit by and allow that!  Are you out of your mind?  Have you not ever heard of the term collective responsibility?  Well those who correct the lies are on the right side of it I'll tell you!  And the rest of the world had better get busy!!  Seriously!  The nerve!  - Jeremiah
Click to expand...


----------



## Saigon

Unkotare said:


> Nothing worse than a whiny wannabe-Nazi.



Says the person who spends his days trying to close down debate. 

Dude - you are a Nazi in all but the colour of your shirt.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

That last reply was to the poster who was identifying them as wannabe nazis... I agree,,,


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

denying the holocaust is an act of anti semitism, clearly.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> As the so called holocaust survivors die off due to age.
> 
> And the alleged event becomes ancient history.
> 
> The arcane holocaust denial laws will slowly be rescinded.
> 
> Thus allowing for true unfettered scholarly discussions to take place as to what really happened and why they happened..........



No it won't.  The jury is in.  It was a holocaust and the world agrees with......never again.  So watch out. 

-Jeremiah


----------



## Saigon

Swagger said:


> You'd be either incredibly out-of-touch or incredibly dishonest if you argued against the liklihood of a politician, historian or celebrity going on public record and saying that they had doubts over events, data and/or witness testimony surrounding the Holocaust without incurring the indignant wrath of the international media.



No, they would incur the wrath of the media and public alike.

So did Jacob Zuma when he claimed showering after sex prevented HIV infection. 

So did Ahmedinajad when he claimed there were no gay people in Iran. 

I don't see the difference, myself.


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> As the so called holocaust survivors die off due to age.
> 
> And the alleged event becomes ancient history.
> 
> The arcane holocaust denial laws will slowly be rescinded.
> 
> Thus allowing for true unfettered scholarly discussions to take place as to what really happened and why they happened..........



At least you're not denying that Mohammed was a pedophile. So what really happened with Mo and why was he interested in little girls?


----------



## MHunterB

Swagger said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who does not believe the holocaust happened is either a liar or incredibly naive.  Hard to believe anyone could doubt it after all the evidence, eyewitnesses, survivor testimonies.
> 
> Those who deny it have an agenda.  Imo.
> 
> -Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps. But what about those who tirelessly attack those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing? If the official narrative is so firmly rooted in the truth, why go to such lengths to discredit and destroy those who oppose disagree? Surely such facts will stand-up against any additional scrutiny?
Click to expand...


Because it's not simply 'those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing' - it is "those who refuse to acknowledge the MOUNTAINS of direct evidence for that narrative".  It is that "those who refuse to acknowledge"  have an agenda - the same elements are consistent from 'denier' to 'denier'.  And it is that the agenda which they have in common is *a combination of seeking to exonerate/whitewash Nazi evil - and seeking to vilify the (Jewish) victims as 'deserving' of the abuse and genocide*.

In short, the 'deniers' are Nazi-suckers, in every possible pejorative sense of that phrase.


----------



## Sunni Man

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the so called holocaust survivors die off due to age.
> 
> And the alleged event becomes ancient history.
> 
> The arcane holocaust denial laws will slowly be rescinded.
> 
> Thus allowing for true unfettered scholarly discussions to take place as to what really happened and why they happened..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it won't.  The jury is in.  It was a holocaust and the world agrees with......never again.  So watch out.
> 
> -Jeremiah
Click to expand...

 Just because the Jews say, "Never again" doesn't mean it ain't gonna happen again.

History has shown that it will.........


----------



## Saigon

Sunni - 

Not only will it happen again, but it has more than once since 1945. But not in Europe.


----------



## Sunni Man

MHunterB said:


> Because it's not simply 'those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing' - it is "those who refuse to acknowledge the MOUNTAINS of direct evidence for that narrative".  It is that "those who refuse to acknowledge"  have an agenda - the same elements are consistent from 'denier' to 'denier'.  And it is that the agenda which they have in common is *a combination of seeking to exonerate/whitewash Nazi evil - and seeking to vilify the (Jewish) victims as 'deserving' of the abuse and genocide*.



I am unabashedly a holocaust revisionist; but I have never tried to whitewash nazi crimes, nor is my goal to vilify the jews. 

I just want the holocaust to be debated like any other historical event.

And let the truth come out.....regardless of the outcome.......


----------



## MHunterB

Swagger said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no legislation covering Holocaust Denial in the United Kingdom. Otherwise the leader of the BNP and European Minister, Nick Griffin, would've been put behind bars a long time ago.
> 
> You're at liberty to deny the Holocaust. But, along with every other nation in the Western world, even the United States, you'll have your reputation dragged through the mud by the national and international media as a result of questioning the version of events in that particular period of modern history. Strange (suspicious, even) how incredibly selective the media are in their ire concerning the re-examination of history.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking that was probably true of the UK.
> 
> I don't know what you mean by selective media though. In general I don't think the public or media have much time for people who are out-and-out lying, whether it is denying that straight people can get AIDS, claiming Israelis were responsible for 9/11, claiming CO2 is good for us, or that the Holocause never happened.
> 
> Society has moved on from those issues with general consensus, and I don't see a problem with that. It doesn't mean any new angle wouldn't be explored or published if it had merit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Society may have moved-on, but the press certainly haven't.
> 
> You'd be either incredibly out-of-touch or incredibly dishonest if you argued against the liklihood of a politician, historian or celebrity going on public record and saying that they had doubts over events, data and/or witness testimony surrounding the Holocaust without incurring the indignant wrath of the international media.
Click to expand...


And why should anyone have a problem with such a media response?

Care to give us an example of exactly what statements you imagine are 'legitimate critcism' of the current narrative?


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's not simply 'those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing' - it is "those who refuse to acknowledge the MOUNTAINS of direct evidence for that narrative".  It is that "those who refuse to acknowledge"  have an agenda - the same elements are consistent from 'denier' to 'denier'.  And it is that the agenda which they have in common is *a combination of seeking to exonerate/whitewash Nazi evil - and seeking to vilify the (Jewish) victims as 'deserving' of the abuse and genocide*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am unabashedly a holocaust revisionist; but I have never tried to whitewash nazi crimes, nor is my goal to vilify the jews.
> 
> I just want the holocaust to be debated like any other historical event.
> 
> And let the truth come out.....regardless of the outcome.......
Click to expand...


Suuuuure, you don't intend to vilify a people of whom you've said "Greed is in their DNA" - is it possible you truly don't understand how vile an insult that was?


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> *As the so called holocaust survivors die off due to age.*
> 
> And the alleged event becomes ancient history.
> 
> The arcane holocaust denial laws will slowly be rescinded.
> 
> Thus allowing for true unfettered scholarly discussions to take place as to what really happened and why they happened..........



So do Muslims and holocaust deniers like you.


----------



## MHunterB

And what IS there to 'debate', Sunni?


----------



## Sunni Man

MHunterB said:


> Suuuuure, you don't intend to vilify a people of whom you've said "Greed is in their DNA" - is it possible you truly don't understand how vile an insult that was?


I didn't see it as an insult at all.

According to the Torah the Hebrew people are blessed with the ability to acquire wealth.

Whether this blessing is spiritual, genetic, or both, I don't really know?

But the stereotype of the jews ability to easily acquire and possess a lot of money is seen by most people to be true........


----------



## Saigon

Sunni Man said:


> I just want the holocaust to be debated like any other historical event.
> 
> And let the truth come out.....regardless of the outcome.......



And yet you have zero interest in German camp records, and have never visited one of the camps. 

So quite how interested are you?

The truth IS out and has been for years - you just haven't bothered to look at it.


----------



## Sunni Man

Saigon said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want the holocaust to be debated like any other historical event.
> 
> And let the truth come out.....regardless of the outcome.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you have zero interest in German camp records, and have never visited one of the camps.
> 
> So quite how interested are you?
> 
> The truth IS out and has been for years - you just haven't bothered to look at it.
Click to expand...

Believe me, I have spent countless hours reading and studying both sides of the holocaust story.

And I have found many discrepancies in the official story.........


----------



## Foxfyre

Sunni Man said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want the holocaust to be debated like any other historical event.
> 
> And let the truth come out.....regardless of the outcome.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet you have zero interest in German camp records, and have never visited one of the camps.
> 
> So quite how interested are you?
> 
> The truth IS out and has been for years - you just haven't bothered to look at it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Believe me, I have spent countless hours reading and studying both sides of the holocaust story.
> 
> And I have found many discrepancies in the official story.........
Click to expand...


But in all due respect, the only sources you have provided for all that reading and studying are blatantly and intentional anti-semitic sites.  Which of course, to serious researchers, would raise questions about the competency of your conclusions.


----------



## Sunni Man

Foxfyre said:


> But in all due respect, the only sources you have provided for all that reading and studying are blatantly and intentional anti-semitic sites.  Which of course, to serious researchers, would raise questions about the competency of your conclusions.


I would like for the holocaust debate to be allowed into the universities and historical organizations.

But currently, no academic dare risk their career by objectively studying the subject.

So all we have are laymen and fringe groups addressing the subject.

Not a good situation.........


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> But in all due respect, the only sources you have provided for all that reading and studying are blatantly and intentional anti-semitic sites.  Which of course, to serious researchers, would raise questions about the competency of your conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> I would like for the holocaust debate to be allowed into the universities and historical organizations.
> 
> But currently, no academic dare risk their career by objectively studying the subject.
> 
> *So all we have are laymen and fringe groups addressing the subject.*
> 
> Not a good situation.........
Click to expand...


You forgot imbeciles like you.


----------



## Foxfyre

Sunni Man said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> But in all due respect, the only sources you have provided for all that reading and studying are blatantly and intentional anti-semitic sites.  Which of course, to serious researchers, would raise questions about the competency of your conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> I would like for the holocaust debate to be allowed into the universities and historical organizations.
> 
> But currently, no academic dare risk their career by objectively studying the subject.
> 
> So all we have are laymen and fringe groups addressing the subject.
> 
> Not a good situation.........
Click to expand...


Now Sunni, you know I don't have any serious axes to grind with you, though we strongly disagree on history and Israel, etc., but you are just being silly now.  I almost audited a course that focused on the Holocaust at UNM here in Albuquerque a few years ago.  Work interferred though.

But here's the real skinny on that:




> 1. What official directives from government ministries and/or local authorities regarding the teaching of the Holocaust exist in your country? Please attach these directives to your answer.
> 
> In the United States, the 50 individual states, not the federal government, are primarily responsible for education policy. Therefore, there is no national curriculum or course of study on the Holocaust that has been created by the government of the United States.
> 
> Five states have enacted laws requiring the teaching of the Holocaust. This is known as creating a "legislative mandate." These states are: California, Florida, Illinois, New Jersey, and New York. Of these five, Florida and New Jersey have created extensive and detailed curricula and guides for the teaching of the Holocaust through their independent state commissions. New York and California have both created less detailed guides through their respective state departments of education, while Illinois has created neither a curriculum nor guides.
> 
> Ten other states have regulations encouraging or recommending the teaching of the Holocaust: Connecticut, Georgia, Indiana, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, and Washington. These regulations are either enacted by state legislatures or by state governors. Those created by the legislature are known as "legislative regulations," while those created by state governors are known as "executive regulations."
> 
> Twelve states have also created Holocaust commissions or councils that support Holocaust education: Alabama, California, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Nevada, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, South Carolina, Tennessee, and West Virginia. The scope of these commissions and councils varies widely from state to state.
> 
> Forty-eight states and the District of Columbia have social-studies standards that are crafted by their respective departments of education (the Alabama Department of Education, the South Dakota Department of Education, etc.). Teachers are required to address these standards-all of which include study of the Holocaust-in their classes. Iowa allows the local school districts to create their own standards, while Rhode Island relies on standards created by the National Center for History in the Schools of the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA).
> 
> 2. If the Holocaust is not a mandatory subject, what percentage of schools chooses to teach about the Holocaust?
> 
> Forty-eight states and the District of Columbia have created social-studies standards for their classrooms. As of early 2004, the Holocaust is explicitly named in 24 state standards (Alabama, Arizona, California, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Virginia, and West Virginia) and the District of Columbia's; it is implicitly identified in the remaining 23 standards when, for example, teachers are asked to address the development and consequences of the policies of National Socialist Germany. As standards play an increasingly important role in U.S. education, it can be assumed that most schools address the subject of the Holocaust.
> United States - Holocaust Education Report





> In the United States, there are several colleges and universities that offer Holocaust education. Students can earn a minor, concentration, or certificate in Holocaust Studies or a Bachelor of Arts (BA) or Master of Arts (MA) degree in Holocaust Studies. There is only one post-secondary school, Clark University, that offers a PhD in Holocaust and Genocide Studies.
> 
> Read more at Suite101: Holocaust Studies at US Colleges, Universities | Suite101 Holocaust Studies at US Colleges, Universities | Suite101
> Follow us: @suite101 on Twitter | Suite101 on Facebook


----------



## Sunni Man

Yes, the holocaust is taught extensively at schools here in the U.S.

But it's a one side dialogue with one point of view.

And any contrary debate is basically non existant..........


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the so called holocaust survivors die off due to age.
> 
> And the alleged event becomes ancient history.
> 
> The arcane holocaust denial laws will slowly be rescinded.
> 
> Thus allowing for true unfettered scholarly discussions to take place as to what really happened and why they happened..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it won't.  The jury is in.  It was a holocaust and the world agrees with......never again.  So watch out.
> 
> -Jeremiah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just because the Jews say, "Never again" doesn't mean it ain't gonna happen again.
> 
> History has shown that it will.........
Click to expand...


Wrong!  The WORLD says NEVER AGAIN.  Got it?  THE WORLD!  We are sick of this anti - semitic hatred and you are winning yourselves no audience by continueing to speak so foolishly!  - Jeremiah


----------



## Foxfyre

Sunni Man said:


> Yes, the holocaust is taught extensively at schools here in the U.S.
> 
> But it's a one side dialogue with one point of view.
> 
> And any contrary debate is basically non existant..........



Well since that has not been my experience, and I seem to have no problem whatsoever with locating all points of view on the subject, and have had no criticism from academics in exploring all those points of view, I have to believe the accurate history is not only studied but also researched and taught.  You'll have to show me some better sources to support your opinion than you have so far provided to convince me that your opinion is not purely an invention of your own bias.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Suuuuure, you don't intend to vilify a people of whom you've said "Greed is in their DNA" - is it possible you truly don't understand how vile an insult that was?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see it as an insult at all.
> 
> According to the Torah the Hebrew people are blessed with the ability to acquire wealth.
> 
> Whether this blessing is spiritual, genetic, or both, I don't really know?
> 
> But the stereotype of the jews ability to easily acquire and possess a lot of money is seen by most people to be true........
Click to expand...


I have found the Jewish people to be among the most generous, kind hearted people I've ever met.   - Jeremiah


----------



## Unkotare

Saigon said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing worse than a whiny wannabe-Nazi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says the person who spends his days trying to close down debate.
> 
> Dude - you are a Nazi in all but the colour of your shirt.
Click to expand...



I guess there is something worse - a whiny pretentious douchebag.


----------



## Sunni Man

Jeremiah said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it won't.  The jury is in.  It was a holocaust and the world agrees with......never again.  So watch out.
> 
> -Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Just because the Jews say, "Never again" doesn't mean it ain't gonna happen again.
> 
> History has shown that it will.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wrong!  The WORLD says NEVER AGAIN.  Got it?  THE WORLD!  We are sick of this anti - semitic hatred and you are winning yourselves no audience by continueing to speak so foolishly!  - Jeremiah
Click to expand...

The world?? ........ I seriously doubt that.......   

The billion people in China could care less.......same with the people in India, Africa, South America, and most of Asia.

The holohoax is basically a European and American issue.

Basically, 3/4 of the world doesn't give hoot about the holohoax.........


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because the Jews say, "Never again" doesn't mean it ain't gonna happen again.
> 
> History has shown that it will.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong!  The WORLD says NEVER AGAIN.  Got it?  THE WORLD!  We are sick of this anti - semitic hatred and you are winning yourselves no audience by continueing to speak so foolishly!  - Jeremiah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The world?? ........ I seriously doubt that.......
> 
> The billion people in China could care less.......same with the people in India, Africa, South America, and most of Asia.
> 
> The holohoax is basically a European and American issue.
> 
> Basically, 3/4 of the world doesn't give hoot about the holohoax.........
Click to expand...


3/4 of the world doesn't give a crap about Islam, the pedophile religion.


----------



## Foxfyre

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because the Jews say, "Never again" doesn't mean it ain't gonna happen again.
> 
> History has shown that it will.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong!  The WORLD says NEVER AGAIN.  Got it?  THE WORLD!  We are sick of this anti - semitic hatred and you are winning yourselves no audience by continueing to speak so foolishly!  - Jeremiah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The world?? ........ I seriously doubt that.......
> 
> The billion people in China could care less.......same with the people in India, Africa, South America, and most of Asia.
> 
> The holohoax is basically a European and American issue.
> 
> Basically, 3/4 of the world doesn't give hoot about the holohoax.........
Click to expand...


Well the United Nations, a group that is pretty pro-Palestinian and not at all supportive of Israel, even though it established the State of Israel, doesn't deny the Holocaust.  And the last time I looked, China, India, most countries in Africa, South America, and Asia, are members of the UN.



> Transmitting the memory of the Holocaust is a vital part of the struggle to combat ignorance and prejudice through education in humanist values, the sharing of cultures and knowledge of history, said Irina Bokova, Director-General of UNESCO in a declaration on the occasion of the International Day of Commemoration in Memory of the Victims of the Holocaust, 27 January. Director General reaffirmed UNESCOs determination to combat Holocaust denial: Education is a key front in this struggle and also UNESCOs unique contribution, through our work for youth, training of teachers and curriculum design.
> 
> UNESCO recognizes that teaching the lessons of the Holocaust is fundamental to establishing respect for human rights, basic freedoms and the values of tolerance and mutual respect.
> 
> UN Member States are encouraged to develop educational programmes to transmit the memory of the Holocaust to future generations so as to prevent genocide from occurring again. UNESCO promotes these learning materials and provides a platform for institutions, teachers, students and interested parties to access resources on Education for Holocaust Remembrance. The organization works with The Holocaust and the UN Outreach Programme, as well as other major specialized institutions, to promote educational resources that use the lessons of the Holocaust to develop knowledge, attitudes and skills that will help students become more tolerant and prevent future genocides.
> Education for Holocaust Remembrance | United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization


----------



## Unkotare

Wanna-be Nazis, anti-Semites, converted religious extremists, conspiracy theorists, racists, and every other kind of loon, bad actor, mental defective, and moral reprobate all want desperately to be taken seriously. They need their idiocy, lies, and nonsense to be given more consideration than it deserves because only that can justify their hate and fear. That reasonable people dismiss them for what they are is a source of well-deserved frustration.


----------



## Unkotare

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because the Jews say, "Never again" doesn't mean it ain't gonna happen again.
> 
> History has shown that it will.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong!  The WORLD says NEVER AGAIN.  Got it?  THE WORLD!  We are sick of this anti - semitic hatred and you are winning yourselves no audience by continueing to speak so foolishly!  - Jeremiah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The world?? ........ I seriously doubt that.......
> 
> The billion people in China could care less.......
Click to expand...



Wrong again, fool.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because the Jews say, "Never again" doesn't mean it ain't gonna happen again.
> 
> History has shown that it will.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong!  The WORLD says NEVER AGAIN.  Got it?  THE WORLD!  We are sick of this anti - semitic hatred and you are winning yourselves no audience by continueing to speak so foolishly!  - Jeremiah
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The world?? ........ I seriously doubt that.......
> 
> The billion people in China could care less.......same with the people in India, Africa, South America, and most of Asia.
> 
> The holohoax is basically a European and American issue.
> 
> Basically, 3/4 of the world doesn't give hoot about the holohoax.........
Click to expand...


Wrong.  100 million born again christians in the underground church in China alone.  Every single one of them standing 4 square behind Israel and the Jewish people.  Better have another look at those numbers.  You are badly mistaken.  - Jeremiah


----------



## Swagger

Unkotare said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong!  The WORLD says NEVER AGAIN.  Got it?  THE WORLD!  We are sick of this anti - semitic hatred and you are winning yourselves no audience by continueing to speak so foolishly!  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> The world?? ........ I seriously doubt that.......
> 
> The billion people in China could care less.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again, fool.
Click to expand...


I see. Then perhaps you could furnish us with the details covering all the Holocaust memorials in China dedicated to the Jews who perished under the Nazis?


----------



## Sunni Man

Jeremiah said:


> Wrong.  100 million born again christians in the underground church in China alone.  Every single one of them standing 4 square behind Israel and the Jewish people.  Better have another look at those numbers.  You are badly mistaken.  - Jeremiah


Do you have a  to back up you claim of 100 million chinese christians?

Or will your excuse they can't be counted because they are underground.......


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong.  100 million born again christians in the underground church in China alone.  Every single one of them standing 4 square behind Israel and the Jewish people.  Better have another look at those numbers.  You are badly mistaken.  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a  to back up you claim of 100 million chinese christians?
> 
> Or will your excuse they can't be counted because they are underground.......
Click to expand...


sunni, what's your excuse for being a traitor to the US by wanting sharia law implemented here?


----------



## Unkotare

Swagger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world?? ........ I seriously doubt that.......
> 
> The billion people in China could care less.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again, fool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see. Then perhaps you could furnish us with the details covering all the Holocaust memorials in China dedicated to the Jews who perished under the Nazis?
Click to expand...



Students in China study World History too, idiot. In fact, the Holocaust is of particular concern because it is taught in part to compare it to the Rape of Nanking and other suffering of Chinese people in WWII. The efforts of John Rabe are widely and popularly taught in connection to this.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> As the so called holocaust survivors die off due to age.
> 
> And the alleged event becomes ancient history.
> 
> The arcane holocaust denial laws will slowly be rescinded.
> 
> Thus allowing for true unfettered scholarly discussions to take place as to what really happened and why they happened..........



 passing it on to the next generation. and the next. including documents. as usual another EPIC fail, raghead


----------



## Sunni Man

The kids today could care less about the holohoax.

They are just into rap music, video games, and the NBA.

In another generation the so called holocaust will just be ancient history to the American people.......


----------



## Swagger

Unkotare said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong again, fool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see. Then perhaps you could furnish us with the details covering all the Holocaust memorials in China dedicated to the Jews who perished under the Nazis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Students in China study World History too, idiot. In fact, the Holocaust is of particular concern because it is taught in part to compare it to the Rape of Nanking and other suffering of Chinese people in WWII. The efforts of John Rabe are widely and popularly taught in connection to this.
Click to expand...


Studying World History doesn't amount to empathy, young man. Indeed, students all over the world study World History, but that doesn't mean they actually care about those that suffered or expend any energy empathising with the ancestors of the those who died/suffered. For instance. I've read about the suffering endured by the N. American indians at the hands of European settlers. But that doesn't mean I care about them or any hardship they suffered.

Try again.


----------



## namvet




----------



## Unkotare

Swagger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see. Then perhaps you could furnish us with the details covering all the Holocaust memorials in China dedicated to the Jews who perished under the Nazis?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Students in China study World History too, idiot. In fact, the Holocaust is of particular concern because it is taught in part to compare it to the Rape of Nanking and other suffering of Chinese people in WWII. The efforts of John Rabe are widely and popularly taught in connection to this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Studying World History doesn't amount to empathy, .
Click to expand...



Try reading the entire post, idiot. I indicated where the empathy comes from.


----------



## Sunni Man

Remember:

Only the jews have suffered.

Everyone else has just been inconvenienced.........


----------



## Swagger

Unkotare said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students in China study World History too, idiot. In fact, the Holocaust is of particular concern because it is taught in part to compare it to the Rape of Nanking and other suffering of Chinese people in WWII. The efforts of John Rabe are widely and popularly taught in connection to this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Studying World History doesn't amount to empathy, .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading the entire post, idiot. I indicated where the empathy comes from.
Click to expand...


Young man, I did read the post in its entirety. All I came across was unsupported conjecture. I then did you the favour of explaining how stupid what you wrote makes you look.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Remember:
> 
> Only the jews have suffered.
> 
> Everyone else has just been inconvenienced.........



they have?? ok we'll just forget about Japanese extermination in the far east countries you mentioned


----------



## Sunni Man

I have already forgot it..........


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> Remember:
> 
> Only the jews have suffered.
> 
> Everyone else has just been inconvenienced.........



What I remember is: only muslims are idiots, they haven't invented anything in 2000 years.


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> I have already forgot it..........



then why are you here???


----------



## Sunni Man

^^^  Question is, why are you here??..........


----------



## High_Gravity

Is Sunni causing trouble again?


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> ^^^  Question is, why are you here??..........



to see your treated fair and respected oh mighty one


----------



## namvet

High_Gravity said:


> Is Sunni causing trouble again?



naw no trouble. he's a fun guy to be with


----------



## Unkotare

Swagger said:


> All I came across was unsupported conjecture.





Then you didn't read very well, idiot. What I explained to you is the reality of the situation.


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Students in China study World History too, idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Listen, idiot, what makes you think students in China study US/Zionists written "world history"?! LOL!
Click to expand...




They, like students elsewhere, study actual world history which includes the Holocaust, you anti-Semitic moron.


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Suuuuure, you don't intend to vilify a people of whom you've said "Greed is in their DNA" - is it possible you truly don't understand how vile an insult that was?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see it as an insult at all.
> 
> According to the Torah the Hebrew people are blessed with the ability to acquire wealth.
> 
> Whether this blessing is spiritual, genetic, or both, I don't really know?
> 
> But the stereotype of the jews ability to easily acquire and possess a lot of money is seen by most people to be true........
Click to expand...


Where in the Torah are you reading this - or is it something which the Qu'Ran says that the Torah says?

Let's go back to the original source IN CONTEXT and check it out.


----------



## Lipush

You're wasting your time on him, Marg.


----------



## Indofred

This thread seems to be pointless.
Just a slanging match with no actual evidence either way.


----------



## Sunni Man

MHunterB said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Suuuuure, you don't intend to vilify a people of whom you've said "Greed is in their DNA" - is it possible you truly don't understand how vile an insult that was?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see it as an insult at all.
> 
> According to the Torah the Hebrew people are blessed with the ability to acquire wealth.
> 
> Whether this blessing is spiritual, genetic, or both, I don't really know?
> 
> But the stereotype of the jews ability to easily acquire and possess a lot of money is seen by most people to be true........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Where in the Torah are you reading this - or is it something which the Qu'Ran says that the Torah says?
> 
> Let's go back to the original source IN CONTEXT and check it out.
Click to expand...

Genesis 18:18  Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.


----------



## Book of Jeremiah

Sunni Man said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't see it as an insult at all.
> 
> According to the Torah the Hebrew people are blessed with the ability to acquire wealth.
> 
> Whether this blessing is spiritual, genetic, or both, I don't really know?
> 
> But the stereotype of the jews ability to easily acquire and possess a lot of money is seen by most people to be true........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where in the Torah are you reading this - or is it something which the Qu'Ran says that the Torah says?
> 
> Let's go back to the original source IN CONTEXT and check it out.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Genesis 18:18  Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.
Click to expand...


Amazing you can quote that scripture and speak about Abrahams seed the way you do.  I cannot understand how you will ever be able to explain that to G-d.   You are without excuse for your anti semitism.   You cannot even plead ignorance!!!!!!!!  Do you realise that?  - Jeremiah


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mememe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Listen, idiot, what makes you think students in China study US/Zionists written "world history"?! LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They, like students elsewhere, study actual world history which includes the Holocaust, you anti-Semitic moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You did not answer: what makes you think students in China study US/Zionists written "world history"?!
Click to expand...



I said,  like students elsewhere, they study actual world history which includes the Holocaust, you anti-Semitic moron.


----------



## Sunni Man

Jeremiah said:


> Amazing you can quote that scripture and speak about Abrahams seed the way you do.  I cannot understand how you will ever be able to explain that to G-d.   You are without excuse for your anti semitism.   You cannot even plead ignorance!!!!!!!!  Do you realise that?  - Jeremiah


As I've stated before; I am not anti-semitic.

My problem is with zionists and the terrorist state of Israel.............


----------



## Swagger

Unkotare said:


> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> All I came across was unsupported conjecture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you didn't read very well, idiot. What I explained to you is the reality of the situation.
Click to expand...


Right, I see. So by your reasoning that mass of empathetic memorial of the Jewish Holocaust you claim stems from Chinese citizens comes from reading about the Holocaust in World History books? What a joke.

I suppose all those people in China were literally weeping their hearts when they read about Princess Diana's death in the newspapers. They probably cried themselves to sleep after their teachers taught them about the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade.

Do yourself a favour and quit making yourself the laughing stock of reason, you silly boy.


----------



## MHunterB

There was nothing in that verse about money, Sunni.   That was strictly your 'slant' on it.   And what you posted about 'avarice/greed' - there is NO WAY that either of those words can be 'massaged' to make them a positive.

  It doesn't matter what you 'state' - the very worst of Jew-hating bigots have claimed "it's nothing personal" and so forth.....  I remain unconvinced by your protestations and unimpressed with your attempts to 'rebrand' the vile things you've posted as 'positive'.


----------



## MHunterB

Swagger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> All I came across was unsupported conjecture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you didn't read very well, idiot. What I explained to you is the reality of the situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, I see. So by your reasoning that mass of empathetic memorial of the Jewish Holocaust you claim stems from Chinese citizens comes from reading about the Holocaust in World History books? What a joke.
> 
> I suppose all those people in China were literally weeping their hearts when they read about Princess Diana's death in the newspapers. They probably cried themselves to sleep after their teachers taught them about the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade.
> 
> Do yourself a favour and quit making yourself the laughing stock of reason, you silly boy.
Click to expand...


Oh, gee - a Nazi-sucker lecturing someone else about 'reason'.  Hilarious.


----------



## Sunni Man

MHunterB said:


> There was nothing in that verse about money, Sunni.   That was strictly your 'slant' on it.   And what you posted about 'avarice/greed' - there is NO WAY that either of those words can be 'massaged' to make them a positive.
> 
> It doesn't matter what you 'state' - the very worst of Jew-hating bigots have claimed "it's nothing personal" and so forth.....  I remain unconvinced by your protestations and unimpressed with your attempts to 'rebrand' the vile things you've posted as 'positive'.


Yikes.......you are a tough one to please.........


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was nothing in that verse about money, Sunni.   That was strictly your 'slant' on it.   And what you posted about 'avarice/greed' - there is NO WAY that either of those words can be 'massaged' to make them a positive.
> 
> It doesn't matter what you 'state' - the very worst of Jew-hating bigots have claimed "it's nothing personal" and so forth.....  I remain unconvinced by your protestations and unimpressed with your attempts to 'rebrand' the vile things you've posted as 'positive'.
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes.......you are a tough one to please.........
Click to expand...


But oh so worth it for those who can ; )


----------



## SAYIT

Swagger said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who does not believe the holocaust happened is either a liar or incredibly naive.  Hard to believe anyone could doubt it after all the evidence, eyewitnesses, survivor testimonies.
> 
> Those who deny it have an agenda.  Imo.
> 
> -Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps. But what about those who tirelessly attack those who dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing? If the official narrative is so firmly rooted in the truth, why go to such lengths to discredit and destroy those who oppose disagree? Surely such facts will stand-up against any additional scrutiny?
Click to expand...


Perhaps because the Holocaust Deniers "facts" have been so thoroughly debunked we've become bored with them and moved on.
The American Historical Association, the oldest and largest society of historians and teachers of history in the United States, states that Holocaust denial is "at best, a form of academic fraud." Yeah, that's what I want on my resume.


----------



## SAYIT

Sunni Man said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> There was nothing in that verse about money, Sunni.   That was strictly your 'slant' on it.   And what you posted about 'avarice/greed' - there is NO WAY that either of those words can be 'massaged' to make them a positive.
> 
> It doesn't matter what you 'state' - the very worst of Jew-hating bigots have claimed "it's nothing personal" and so forth.....  I remain unconvinced by your protestations and unimpressed with your attempts to 'rebrand' the vile things you've posted as 'positive'.
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes.......you are a tough one to please.........
Click to expand...


You're an easy one to read.


----------



## varelse

Foxfyre said:


> I meant the Nazis who testified during the trials after the war ended.  THEY certainly had no obvious motive to escalate the numbers.     As for the records themselves, who knows?


I'm not sure any but those at the top of the bureaucracy would necessarily _know_ the totals beyond their own areas of operation. They might know the party propaganda line...


> But given the brutality of the Nazi regime and how harshly they dealt with lawbreakers, I would guess officials did not try to cheat much and risk getting caught.


Do you have evidence that they cracked down on people who lied to make the party sound more effective? My understanding was that it was _questioning_ the Party or its power was the big no-no. I doubt Pol Pot or the Interahamwe had any problem with their people inflating the numbers and telling the undesirables that millions of their kind had been slaughtered and they were next. 



MHunterB said:


> Sunni  Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because it's not simply 'those who  dispute the versions of events we've all grown-up hearing' - it is  "those who refuse to acknowledge the MOUNTAINS of direct evidence for  that narrative".  It is that "those who refuse to acknowledge"  have an  agenda - the same elements are consistent from 'denier' to 'denier'.   And it is that the agenda which they have in common is *a  combination of seeking to exonerate/whitewash Nazi evil - and seeking to  vilify the (Jewish) victims as 'deserving' of the abuse and genocide*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am unabashedly a holocaust revisionist; but I have never tried to whitewash nazi crimes, nor is my goal to vilify the jews.
> 
> I just want the holocaust to be debated like any other historical event.
> 
> And let the truth come out.....regardless of the outcome.......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Suuuuure, you don't intend to vilify a people of whom you've said "Greed  is in their DNA" - is it possible you truly don't understand how vile  an insult that was?
Click to expand...


Not if you're a Randian


just sayin'

I skimmed the  last several pages of idiotic mud-slinging and slap-festing.

If I missed any other real posts or anything directed toward me, I apologize. Just link to it or something and mention my name in bold or something so I see it when I'm here again.


----------



## Unkotare

Swagger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swagger said:
> 
> 
> 
> All I came across was unsupported conjecture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you didn't read very well, idiot. What I explained to you is the reality of the situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, I see. So by your reasoning that mass of empathetic memorial of the Jewish Holocaust you claim stems from Chinese citizens comes from reading about the Holocaust in World History books? .
Click to expand...




Once again, read what I wrote, idiot.


----------



## Unkotare

Swagger said:


> I suppose all those people in China were literally weeping their hearts when they read about Princess Diana's death in the newspapers. .






That was big news over there when it happened.


----------



## Unkotare

mememe said:


> Or you don't realise that your "world history" is of no interest to others?






World History is of interest to a great many people.


----------



## ima

Sunni Man said:


> Jeremiah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing you can quote that scripture and speak about Abrahams seed the way you do.  I cannot understand how you will ever be able to explain that to G-d.   You are without excuse for your anti semitism.   You cannot even plead ignorance!!!!!!!!  Do you realise that?  - Jeremiah
> 
> 
> 
> As I've stated before; I am not anti-semitic.
> 
> My problem is with zionists and the terrorist state of Israel.............
Click to expand...


Yet, he has no problem with the wife beaters of Allah.


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

Indofred said:


> This thread seems to be pointless.
> Just a slanging match with no actual evidence either way.


----------



## namvet

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> This thread seems to be pointless.
> Just a slanging match with no actual evidence either way.
Click to expand...


pretty piss poor fake. you do the photoshopping ???


----------



## Sunni Man

The so called Holocaust is a myth foisted on gullible people by the zionist juden in order to extort guilt money from the western nations.    ...


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> The so called Holocaust is a myth foisted on gullible people by the zionist juden in order to extort guilt money from the western nations.    ...



so how much did you pay ??


----------



## Sunni Man

Belief in the so called Holocaust is no different than believing in Big Foot or the Loch Ness monster.    ......


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Belief in the so called Holocaust is no different than believing in Big Foot or the Loch Ness monster.    ......



Ihr einen dummen Schwanzlutscher. und deine Mama saugt Jude Schwänze


----------



## Sunni Man

Namvet sie sind ein Jude liebevollen homosexuellen.    .....


----------



## namvet

sunni man said:


> namvet sie sind ein jude liebevollen homosexuellen.    .....



&#1492;&#1488;&#1491;&#1501; &#1492;&#1505;&#1493;&#1504;&#1497; &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1491;&#1497;. &#1497;&#1513; &#1500;&#1493; &#1488;&#1502;&#1488; &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1491;&#1497;&#1497;&#1492;


----------



## Sunni Man

Namvet you have become trite and boring.......so please move along.    ...


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Namvet you have become trite and boring.......so please move along.    ...



&#1492;&#1488;&#1491;&#1501; &#1492;&#1505;&#1493;&#1504;&#1497; fucks &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1491;&#1497; &#1488;&#1497;&#1502;&#1493; &#1493;&#1488;&#1489;&#1497;&#1493;. . &#1492;&#1493;&#1488; &#1492;&#1493;&#1502;&#1493;&#1505;&#1511;&#1505;&#1493;&#1488;&#1500; &#1499;&#1491;&#1497;


----------



## Lipush

&#1488;&#1489;&#1500; &#1502;&#1492; &#1492;&#1511;&#1496;&#1506; &#1489;&#1500;&#1491;&#1489;&#1512; &#1508;&#1492; &#1489;&#1506;&#1489;&#1512;&#1497;&#1514;? &#1493;&#1506;&#1493;&#1491; &#1489;&#1513;&#1490;&#1497;&#1488;&#1493;&#1514; &#1499;&#1488;&#1500;&#1492;? &#1490;&#1493;&#1490;&#1500; &#1496;&#1512;&#1504;&#1505;&#1500;&#1497;&#1497;&#1496;? &#1495;&#1495;&#1495;&#1495;&#1495;

lol


----------



## namvet

&#1504;&#1493;&#1500;&#1491;&#1514;&#1497; &#1502;&#1508;&#1490;&#1512; &#1493;&#1488;&#1504;&#1497; &#1490;&#1512; &#1489;&#1489;&#1497;&#1514; &#1488;&#1490;&#1493;&#1494; &#1506;&#1501; &#1488;&#1495;&#1512;&#1497;&#1501; &#1490;&#1512;&#1502;&#1504;&#1497;&#1501; &#1496;&#1497;&#1508;&#1513;&#1497;&#1501; hahaha &#1488;&#1497;&#1491;&#1497;&#1493;&#1496; &#1502;&#1496;&#1493;&#1502;&#1496;&#1501;


----------



## namvet

lipush said:


> &#1488;&#1489;&#1500; &#1502;&#1492; &#1492;&#1511;&#1496;&#1506; &#1489;&#1500;&#1491;&#1489;&#1512; &#1508;&#1492; &#1489;&#1506;&#1489;&#1512;&#1497;&#1514;? &#1493;&#1506;&#1493;&#1491; &#1489;&#1513;&#1490;&#1497;&#1488;&#1493;&#1514; &#1499;&#1488;&#1500;&#1492;? &#1490;&#1493;&#1490;&#1500; &#1496;&#1512;&#1504;&#1505;&#1500;&#1497;&#1497;&#1496;? &#1495;&#1495;&#1495;&#1495;&#1495;
> 
> lol



&#1488;&#1504;&#1497; &#1512;&#1493;&#1510;&#1492; &#1500;&#1506;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514; &#1488;&#1514; &#1492;&#1502;&#1496;&#1493;&#1502;&#1496;&#1502;&#1497;&#1501; &#1492;&#1488;&#1500;&#1492;


----------



## MHunterB

Sunni Man said:


> Belief in the so called Holocaust is no different than believing in Big Foot or the Loch Ness monster.    ......



One doesn't  'believe in' documented facts and historical events.  The Germans didn't keep detailed records of things which they did not do.

People who wish to deny the Nazi intent of genocide against many groups need to consider why they are attempting to deny what the bulk of German citizens experienced and know as fact.


----------



## namvet

MHunterB said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Belief in the so called Holocaust is no different than believing in Big Foot or the Loch Ness monster.    ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One doesn't  'believe in' documented facts and historical events.  The Germans didn't keep detailed records of things which they did not do.
> 
> People who wish to deny the Nazi intent of genocide against many groups need to consider why they are attempting to deny what the bulk of German citizens experienced and know as fact.
Click to expand...


don't feed the troll


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

MHunterB said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Belief in the so called Holocaust is no different than believing in Big Foot or the Loch Ness monster.    ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One doesn't  'believe in' documented facts and historical events.  The Germans didn't keep detailed records of things which they did not do.
> 
> People who wish to deny the Nazi intent of genocide against many groups need to consider why they are attempting to deny what the bulk of German citizens experienced and know as fact.
Click to expand...







Trust but verify this...http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...KUFAAAAIBAJ&dq=zundel hilberg&pg=4039,3484482


----------



## Lipush

namvet said:


> lipush said:
> 
> 
> 
> &#1488;&#1489;&#1500; &#1502;&#1492; &#1492;&#1511;&#1496;&#1506; &#1489;&#1500;&#1491;&#1489;&#1512; &#1508;&#1492; &#1489;&#1506;&#1489;&#1512;&#1497;&#1514;? &#1493;&#1506;&#1493;&#1491; &#1489;&#1513;&#1490;&#1497;&#1488;&#1493;&#1514; &#1499;&#1488;&#1500;&#1492;? &#1490;&#1493;&#1490;&#1500; &#1496;&#1512;&#1504;&#1505;&#1500;&#1497;&#1497;&#1496;? &#1495;&#1495;&#1495;&#1495;&#1495;
> 
> lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> &#1488;&#1504;&#1497; &#1512;&#1493;&#1510;&#1492; &#1500;&#1506;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514; &#1488;&#1514; &#1492;&#1502;&#1496;&#1493;&#1502;&#1496;&#1502;&#1497;&#1501; &#1492;&#1488;&#1500;&#1492;
Click to expand...


&#1489;&#1506;&#1489;&#1512;&#1497;&#1514; &#1490;&#1512;&#1493;&#1506;&#1492;?

&#1500;&#1506;&#1489;&#1493;&#1491; &#1506;&#1500; &#1491;&#1511;&#1491;&#1493;&#1511; &#1504;&#1499;&#1493;&#1503; &#1489;&#1489;&#1511;&#1513;&#1492;.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Unfortunately, the Nazis were fastidious record keepers, and their own records damn them. To say nothing of the original films showing the camps and corpses. If you look into it, faking film is very hard to do. Faking mdoern day video is of course very easy oweing to the nature of it being all computer code. But faking film is all but impossible. 

If the Holocaust was faked, or never happened, ask yourself why the UN then created the modern state of Israel in 1948 if not out of guilt for allowing the Holocaust to happen in the first place. To say nothing of asking the modern neo-Nazis if they want another Holocaust. If they say yes, the Holocaust happened. If they say no, but what a great idea. It didn't happen. 

Holocaust deniers are simply trying to hurl feces because they have nothing else but their own excrement in their hands, playing with it like children.


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

Delta4Embassy said:


> Unfortunately, *the Nazis were fastidious record keepers, and their own records damn them. *To say nothing of the original films showing the camps and corpses. If you look into it, faking film is very hard to do. Faking mdoern day video is of course very easy oweing to the nature of it being all computer code. But faking film is all but impossible.
> 
> If the Holocaust was faked, or never happened, ask yourself why the UN then created the modern state of Israel in 1948 if not out of guilt for allowing the Holocaust to happen in the first place. To say nothing of asking the modern neo-Nazis if they want another Holocaust. If they say yes, the Holocaust happened. If they say no, but what a great idea. It didn't happen.
> 
> Holocaust deniers are simply trying to hurl feces because they have nothing else but their own excrement in their hands, playing with it like children.



What record damns them?

What do the original films show?


----------



## PoliticalChic

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, *the Nazis were fastidious record keepers, and their own records damn them. *To say nothing of the original films showing the camps and corpses. If you look into it, faking film is very hard to do. Faking mdoern day video is of course very easy oweing to the nature of it being all computer code. But faking film is all but impossible.
> 
> If the Holocaust was faked, or never happened, ask yourself why the UN then created the modern state of Israel in 1948 if not out of guilt for allowing the Holocaust to happen in the first place. To say nothing of asking the modern neo-Nazis if they want another Holocaust. If they say yes, the Holocaust happened. If they say no, but what a great idea. It didn't happen.
> 
> Holocaust deniers are simply trying to hurl feces because they have nothing else but their own excrement in their hands, playing with it like children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What record damns them?
> 
> What do the original films show?
Click to expand...



Can you be as stupid as you appear?
Is that even possible?



The following from *Stefanie Marsh and Bohan Pancevski, Im No Monster.*

1.	On March 12, 1938, Hitlers troops rolled over the border from Germany, into Austria. This was the Anschluss, the annexation of Austria into Greater Germany. Three days later, Hitler entered Vienna, greeted by an enthusiastic crowd of up to one million people. A plebiscite was held in less than a month, and 99.7% of Austrians voted to join the Third Reich. 

a.	In 1938, Austria had a Jewish population of about 192,000, representing almost 4 percent of the total population. The overwhelming majority of Austrian Jews lived in Vienna,
Austria




2.	The little town of Amstetten, halfway between Vienna and Linz, on the Ybbs River, which flows into the Danube. In May, 1938, the Amstettner Anzeiger was proud to report that the town swimming pool and sunbath declares that Jews are banned from entering. Now we only have to get rid of the mosquitoes from our pool for it to become really ideal. The town had become a Fuhrerstadt! By summer, all 28 of Amstettens Jews had been expelled.

3.	Amstettens location as the main railway hub supplying both Germany and Italy made it a target of Allied bombers. The first bombs fell on November 19, 1944





4.	About 25 miles West of Amstetten, on the Danube, was the town of Mauthausen. Prisoners from the concentration camp at Dachau had been sent to build a much larger facility where political prisoners could be held. The state owned Mauthausen expanded, and by 1944, it was grouped with nearby Gusen, as a commercial enterprise.

5.	The German mining company DEST, *used the prisoners as slave labor, to work in the quarries, or to be hired out to local manufacturers and farmers. The Amstetten railway network came in handy to transport the slaves.*

a.	*The labor supply was inexhaustibleand when a prisoners productivity dropped, they would simply be transported to Mauthausen-Gusen and killed.*




6.	*It was a hugely profitable death camp and the only camp designated Grade III  (incorrigible enemies of the Reich ). The motto was Vernichtung durch Arbeit (Extermination through Work) *

a.	Far beyond Jews, the camp included communists, socialists, Polish boy scouts, homosexuals, Romanies, Jehovahs Witnesses, anarchists, Spanish Republicans who had fled Franco.

b.	*In 1943, life expectancy in the camps was 6 months; by wars end it was 3 months.*




7.	*Slave labor was responsible for construction of Austrias largest steelworks and Steyr munitons, Puch automobiles, and most businesses in Amstetten.*




8.	It was a place of *inconceivable barbarism *whose secrecy liberated its masters into horrific inventiveness. In the camps *gas chambers, quarries, hospitals, isolation units, and crematoria, in its underground brothel, and on its dissecting tables, a creative degeneracy blossomed.*





9.	The camp was liberated on May 5, 1945 by the 41st Reconnaissance Squad of the US Eleventh Armored Division. *They found 85,000 inmates, and estimated the death toll at 320,000. *Among the liberated was Simon Wiesenthal.


----------



## namvet

Because, the Nazis wanted to keep record for future uses such as exchang Jews for war equipment and they wanted to keep the numbers of people in the concentration camps because hitler wanted to make sure people know who was in it and how much. 

Satan's administration: Journey into Nazi death records

link


----------



## Jroc

Sunni Man said:


> The so called Holocaust is a myth foisted on gullible people by the zionist juden in order to extort guilt money from the western nations.    ...



What's it like to be like you Sunni Boy?




Sunni Man said:


> My solution to the Jewish problem.
> 
> Would be to round them up world wide and find and island to quarantine them on.
> 
> There are several islands in the world that could easily contain the 13 million Jews that currently reside in various nations and Israel.
> 
> This way the Jews could build the ultimate Hebrew society they have always dreamed of.
> 
> Several gun boats would patrol the waters around the island to prevent any Jews from trying to escape.
> 
> This way the Jews could be protected from harm; and the world could finally have peace and security.
> 
> Thus a  Win = Win for both Jews and Gentiles


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

PoliticalChic said:


> Can you be as stupid as you appear?
> Is that even possible?



Lol 



> The following from *Stefanie Marsh and Bohan Pancevski, Im No Monster.*
> 
> a.	*The labor supply was inexhaustibleand when a prisoners productivity dropped, they would simply be transported to Mauthausen-Gusen and killed.*
> 
> 6.	*It was a hugely profitable death camp and the only camp designated Grade III  (incorrigible enemies of the Reich ). The motto was Vernichtung durch Arbeit (Extermination through Work) *
> 
> a.	Far beyond Jews, the camp included communists, socialists, Polish boy scouts, homosexuals, Romanies, Jehovahs Witnesses, anarchists, Spanish Republicans who had fled Franco.
> 
> b.	*In 1943, life expectancy in the camps was 6 months; by wars end it was 3 months.*
> 
> 7.	*Slave labor was responsible for construction of Austrias largest steelworks and Steyr munitons, Puch automobiles, and most businesses in Amstetten.*
> 
> 8.	It was a place of *inconceivable barbarism *whose secrecy liberated its masters into horrific inventiveness. In the camps *gas chambers, quarries, hospitals, isolation units, and crematoria, in its underground brothel, and on its dissecting tables, a creative degeneracy blossomed.*
> 
> 9.	The camp was liberated on May 5, 1945 by the 41st Reconnaissance Squad of the US Eleventh Armored Division. *They found 85,000 inmates, and estimated the death toll at 320,000. *Among the liberated was Simon Wiesenthal.



1. None of this answers the questions I put to D4E. 

2. The 'death toll' varies, "The death toll remains unknown, although most sources place it between 122,766 and 320,000 for the entire complex."

At one time it was said to be 2 million. Encyclopaedia Britannica

Now, the death toll has been revised at bit, well, quite a lot really:

"An estimated 197,464 prisoners passed through the Mauthausen camp system between
August 1938 and May 1945. At least 95,000 died there. More than *14,000 were Jewish*." Mauthausen

3. Simon Wiesenthal has er, told different versions of his story...but the real shocker is that he was accused of being a Nazi agent  by Austrian Chancellor Bruno Kreisky, himself of Jewish ancestry:



> *I really know Mr. Wiesenthal only from secret reports, and they are bad, very nasty*. I say this as Federal Chancellor ... And I say that Mr. Wiesenthal had a different relationship with the Gestapo than I did. Yes, and this can be proven. I can't say more [now]. Everything else, I'll say in court.
> 
> My relationship with the Gestapo is unambiguous. I was their prisoner, their inmate, and I was interrogated. His relationship was a different one, I can say, and this will come out clearly. It's bad enough what I've already said here. But he can't clear himself by charging me with defaming his honor in the press, as he might wish. It's not that simple, because that would mean a big court case ... *A man like this doesn't have the right to pretend to be a moral authority*. That's what I say. He doesn't have the right ...



Oh dear, oh dear


----------



## PoliticalChic

Urbanguerrilla said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you be as stupid as you appear?
> Is that even possible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The following from *Stefanie Marsh and Bohan Pancevski, Im No Monster.*
> 
> a.	*The labor supply was inexhaustibleand when a prisoners productivity dropped, they would simply be transported to Mauthausen-Gusen and killed.*
> 
> 6.	*It was a hugely profitable death camp and the only camp designated Grade III  (incorrigible enemies of the Reich ). The motto was Vernichtung durch Arbeit (Extermination through Work) *
> 
> a.	Far beyond Jews, the camp included communists, socialists, Polish boy scouts, homosexuals, Romanies, Jehovahs Witnesses, anarchists, Spanish Republicans who had fled Franco.
> 
> b.	*In 1943, life expectancy in the camps was 6 months; by wars end it was 3 months.*
> 
> 7.	*Slave labor was responsible for construction of Austrias largest steelworks and Steyr munitons, Puch automobiles, and most businesses in Amstetten.*
> 
> 8.	It was a place of *inconceivable barbarism *whose secrecy liberated its masters into horrific inventiveness. In the camps *gas chambers, quarries, hospitals, isolation units, and crematoria, in its underground brothel, and on its dissecting tables, a creative degeneracy blossomed.*
> 
> 9.	The camp was liberated on May 5, 1945 by the 41st Reconnaissance Squad of the US Eleventh Armored Division. *They found 85,000 inmates, and estimated the death toll at 320,000. *Among the liberated was Simon Wiesenthal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. None of this answers the questions I put to D4E.
> 
> 2. The 'death toll' varies, "The death toll remains unknown, although most sources place it between 122,766 and 320,000 for the entire complex."
> 
> At one time it was said to be 2 million. Encyclopaedia Britannica
> 
> Now, the death toll has been revised at bit, well, quite a lot really:
> 
> "An estimated 197,464 prisoners passed through the Mauthausen camp system between
> August 1938 and May 1945. At least 95,000 died there. More than *14,000 were Jewish*." Mauthausen
> 
> 3. Simon Wiesenthal has er, told different versions of his story...but the real shocker is that he was accused of being a Nazi agent  by Austrian Chancellor Bruno Kreisky, himself of Jewish ancestry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I really know Mr. Wiesenthal only from secret reports, and they are bad, very nasty*. I say this as Federal Chancellor ... And I say that Mr. Wiesenthal had a different relationship with the Gestapo than I did. Yes, and this can be proven. I can't say more [now]. Everything else, I'll say in court.
> 
> My relationship with the Gestapo is unambiguous. I was their prisoner, their inmate, and I was interrogated. His relationship was a different one, I can say, and this will come out clearly. It's bad enough what I've already said here. But he can't clear himself by charging me with defaming his honor in the press, as he might wish. It's not that simple, because that would mean a big court case ... *A man like this doesn't have the right to pretend to be a moral authority*. That's what I say. He doesn't have the right ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh dear, oh dear
Click to expand...





Bogus.....


"In a press conference a short time after the election and Wiesenthal's revelations, Kreisky said Wiesenthal used "the methods of a quasi-political Mafia."[99] Wiesenthal filed a libel lawsuit (in spite of Kreisky being able to declare immunity if he so chose), and when Kreisky later accused Wiesenthal of being an agent of the Gestapo, working with the Judenrat in Lvov, these accusations were incorporated into the lawsuit as well.[100] The suit was settled in Wiesenthal's favour in 1989,...."
Simon Wiesenthal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Why all these little fibs......man up and stop making with the big fib: that you are questioning the numbers, or the Holocaust itself.

It's obvious that your bias is anti-Antisemitism. 
Argue that.


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

PoliticalChic said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you be as stupid as you appear?
> Is that even possible?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol
> 1. None of this answers the questions I put to D4E.
> 
> 2. The 'death toll' varies, "The death toll remains unknown, although most sources place it between 122,766 and 320,000 for the entire complex."
> 
> At one time it was said to be 2 million. Encyclopaedia Britannica
> 
> Now, the death toll has been revised at bit, well, quite a lot really:
> 
> "An estimated 197,464 prisoners passed through the Mauthausen camp system between
> August 1938 and May 1945. At least 95,000 died there. More than *14,000 were Jewish*." Mauthausen
> 
> 3. Simon Wiesenthal has er, told different versions of his story...but the real shocker is that he was accused of being a Nazi agent  by Austrian Chancellor Bruno Kreisky, himself of Jewish ancestry:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I really know Mr. Wiesenthal only from secret reports, and they are bad, very nasty*. I say this as Federal Chancellor ... And I say that Mr. Wiesenthal had a different relationship with the Gestapo than I did. Yes, and this can be proven. I can't say more [now]. Everything else, I'll say in court.
> 
> My relationship with the Gestapo is unambiguous. I was their prisoner, their inmate, and I was interrogated. His relationship was a different one, I can say, and this will come out clearly. It's bad enough what I've already said here. But he can't clear himself by charging me with defaming his honor in the press, as he might wish. It's not that simple, because that would mean a big court case ... *A man like this doesn't have the right to pretend to be a moral authority*. That's what I say. He doesn't have the right ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh dear, oh dear
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bogus.....
> 
> 
> "In a press conference a short time after the election and Wiesenthal's revelations, Kreisky said Wiesenthal used "the methods of a quasi-political Mafia."[99] Wiesenthal filed a libel lawsuit (in spite of Kreisky being able to declare immunity if he so chose), and when Kreisky later accused Wiesenthal of being an agent of the Gestapo, working with the Judenrat in Lvov, these accusations were incorporated into the lawsuit as well.[100] The suit was settled in Wiesenthal's favour in 1989,...."
> Simon Wiesenthal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Why all these little fibs......man up and stop making with the big fib: that you are questioning the numbers, or the Holocaust itself.
> 
> It's obvious that your bias is anti-Antisemitism.
> Argue that.
Click to expand...


You know its the truth, why you persist in believing nonsense is the real question. 

Kreisky had the goods on Wiesenthal, he was a Nazi agent. He admits himself he was well treated by them on several occasions.  

The Mauthausen death toll was reduced from 2 million down all the way to 14,000 Jews, quite a drop but you didnt comment 

Wiesenthal changed his story several times, why does someone do that  

He told a tall tale about an electrocution chamber in the camp 

He told a tall tale about people being made into soap 

He said he captured Eichmann 

But Isser Harel, the Israeli official who headed the team that seized Eichmann, has declared unequivocally that Wiesenthal had "absolutely nothing" to do with the capture. (Harel is a former head of both the Mossad and Shin Bet, Israel's foreign and domestic security agencies.)

Now who's telling fibs


----------



## PoliticalChic

Urbanguerrilla said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol
> 1. None of this answers the questions I put to D4E.
> 
> 2. The 'death toll' varies, "The death toll remains unknown, although most sources place it between 122,766 and 320,000 for the entire complex."
> 
> At one time it was said to be 2 million. Encyclopaedia Britannica
> 
> Now, the death toll has been revised at bit, well, quite a lot really:
> 
> "An estimated 197,464 prisoners passed through the Mauthausen camp system between
> August 1938 and May 1945. At least 95,000 died there. More than *14,000 were Jewish*." Mauthausen
> 
> 3. Simon Wiesenthal has er, told different versions of his story...but the real shocker is that he was accused of being a Nazi agent  by Austrian Chancellor Bruno Kreisky, himself of Jewish ancestry:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear, oh dear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bogus.....
> 
> 
> "In a press conference a short time after the election and Wiesenthal's revelations, Kreisky said Wiesenthal used "the methods of a quasi-political Mafia."[99] Wiesenthal filed a libel lawsuit (in spite of Kreisky being able to declare immunity if he so chose), and when Kreisky later accused Wiesenthal of being an agent of the Gestapo, working with the Judenrat in Lvov, these accusations were incorporated into the lawsuit as well.[100] The suit was settled in Wiesenthal's favour in 1989,...."
> Simon Wiesenthal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Why all these little fibs......man up and stop making with the big fib: that you are questioning the numbers, or the Holocaust itself.
> 
> It's obvious that your bias is anti-Antisemitism.
> Argue that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know its the truth, why you persist in believing nonsense is the real question.
> 
> Kreisky had the goods on Wiesenthal, he was a Nazi agent. He admits himself he was well treated by them on several occasions.
> 
> The Mauthausen death toll was reduced from 2 million down all the way to 14,000 Jews, quite a drop but you didnt comment
> 
> Wiesenthal changed his story several times, why does someone do that
> 
> He told a tall tale about an electrocution chamber in the camp
> 
> He told a tall tale about people being made into soap
> 
> He said he captured Eichmann
> 
> But Isser Harel, the Israeli official who headed the team that seized Eichmann, has declared unequivocally that Wiesenthal had "absolutely nothing" to do with the capture. (Harel is a former head of both the Mossad and Shin Bet, Israel's foreign and domestic security agencies.)
> 
> Now who's telling fibs
Click to expand...




In addition...you don't read well?

*"The suit was settled in Wiesenthal's favour in 1989,...."*


Now back to my original query.....

...the consensus is exactly what the "Holocaust" suggests it is.

You and my pal Sunni have a thing with Jewish folks.

That's the reason for your post....


It would seem to me to be more interesting for you to explain why you have this animus rather than the usual 'no Holocaust' which has been gone over ad infinitum.


So.....why?
Why that feeling toward millions of folks you've never met?



Is it that jealousy of their success? Influence? Intelligence?

What the dillio?


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

PoliticalChic said:


> In addition...you don't read well?
> 
> *"The suit was settled in Wiesenthal's favour in 1989,...."*
> 
> Now back to my original query.....
> 
> ...the consensus is exactly what the "Holocaust" suggests it is.
> 
> You and my pal Sunni have a thing with Jewish folks.
> 
> That's the reason for your post....
> 
> It would seem to me to be more interesting for you to explain why you have this animus rather than the usual 'no Holocaust' which has been gone over ad infinitum.
> 
> So.....why?
> Why that feeling toward millions of folks you've never met?
> 
> Is it that jealousy of their success? Influence? Intelligence?
> 
> What the dillio?



Finkelstein said that "accepting that *Wiesenthal was a showman and a braggart and, yes, even a liar*, can live alongside acknowledging the contribution he made".

Thats some hero you have, someone for your kids to look up to 

And straight away you're down to the "anti-Semite" mud-fling, the last refuge of the scoundrel 

No answers to my queries: 



> The Mauthausen death toll was reduced from 2 million down all the way to 14,000 Jews, quite a drop but you didnt comment!
> 
> Wiesenthal changed his story several times, why does someone do that?
> 
> He told a tall tale about an electrocution chamber in the camp
> 
> He told a tall tale about people being made into soap
> 
> He said he captured Eichmann
> 
> But Isser Harel, the Israeli official who headed the team that seized Eichmann, has declared unequivocally that Wiesenthal had "absolutely nothing" to do with the capture. (Harel is a former head of both the Mossad and Shin Bet, Israel's foreign and domestic security agencies.)


----------



## PoliticalChic

Urbanguerrilla said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> In addition...you don't read well?
> 
> *"The suit was settled in Wiesenthal's favour in 1989,...."*
> 
> Now back to my original query.....
> 
> ...the consensus is exactly what the "Holocaust" suggests it is.
> 
> You and my pal Sunni have a thing with Jewish folks.
> 
> That's the reason for your post....
> 
> It would seem to me to be more interesting for you to explain why you have this animus rather than the usual 'no Holocaust' which has been gone over ad infinitum.
> 
> So.....why?
> Why that feeling toward millions of folks you've never met?
> 
> Is it that jealousy of their success? Influence? Intelligence?
> 
> What the dillio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finkelstein said that "accepting that *Wiesenthal was a showman and a braggart and, yes, even a liar*, can live alongside acknowledging the contribution he made".
> 
> Thats some hero you have, someone for your kids to look up to
> 
> And straight away you're down to the "anti-Semite" mud-fling, the last refuge of the scoundrel
> 
> No answers to my queries:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Mauthausen death toll was reduced from 2 million down all the way to 14,000 Jews, quite a drop but you didnt comment!
> 
> Wiesenthal changed his story several times, why does someone do that?
> 
> He told a tall tale about an electrocution chamber in the camp
> 
> He told a tall tale about people being made into soap
> 
> He said he captured Eichmann
> 
> But Isser Harel, the Israeli official who headed the team that seized Eichmann, has declared unequivocally that Wiesenthal had "absolutely nothing" to do with the capture. (Harel is a former head of both the Mossad and Shin Bet, Israel's foreign and domestic security agencies.)
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...






"Thats some hero you have, someone for your kids to look up to."


The concept of irony has spent the entirety of its existence waiting for you to come along and give it meaning.



If there are two sides to this issue....

....the one that you're championing wore jack-boots.


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

PoliticalChic said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> In addition...you don't read well?
> 
> *"The suit was settled in Wiesenthal's favour in 1989,...."*
> 
> Now back to my original query.....
> 
> ...the consensus is exactly what the "Holocaust" suggests it is.
> 
> You and my pal Sunni have a thing with Jewish folks.
> 
> That's the reason for your post....
> 
> It would seem to me to be more interesting for you to explain why you have this animus rather than the usual 'no Holocaust' which has been gone over ad infinitum.
> 
> So.....why?
> Why that feeling toward millions of folks you've never met?
> 
> Is it that jealousy of their success? Influence? Intelligence?
> 
> What the dillio?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finkelstein said that "accepting that *Wiesenthal was a showman and a braggart and, yes, even a liar*, can live alongside acknowledging the contribution he made".
> 
> Thats some hero you have, someone for your kids to look up to
> 
> And straight away you're down to the "anti-Semite" mud-fling, the last refuge of the scoundrel
> 
> No answers to my queries:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Mauthausen death toll was reduced from 2 million down all the way to 14,000 Jews, quite a drop but you didnt comment!
> 
> Wiesenthal changed his story several times, why does someone do that?
> 
> He told a tall tale about an electrocution chamber in the camp
> 
> He told a tall tale about people being made into soap
> 
> He said he captured Eichmann
> 
> But Isser Harel, the Israeli official who headed the team that seized Eichmann, has declared unequivocally that Wiesenthal had "absolutely nothing" to do with the capture. (Harel is a former head of both the Mossad and Shin Bet, Israel's foreign and domestic security agencies.)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Thats some hero you have, someone for your kids to look up to."
> 
> The concept of irony has spent the entirety of its existence waiting for you to come along and give it meaning.
> 
> If there are two sides to this issue....
> 
> ....the one that you're championing wore jack-boots.
Click to expand...


The truth doesn't wear boots, lady 

Btw, how is the holocaust industry going...not too well eh 



> On How Actual Survivors Were Cheated by Jewish Organizations:
> 
> Haaretz: "The Claims Conference intentionally defrauded Holocaust survivors." (09.25.2008)
> 
> Ynet: Where did the Shoah money go? (12.11.2006)
> 'First Class flights around the world, accommodation at deluxe hotels, dining at fancy restaurants and a series of credit cards, this is how the Claims Conference, which deals with restitution of stolen Jewish property from the Holocaust, operates.'
> 
> Haaretz: Survivors' protest makes foreign journalists gasp, security vanish (08.06.2007)
> "I want the Germans to know where the money they gave Israel went," he said angrily. "I want the Germans to know that Israel took the money we should have received. I want them to answer one question: Where did our money go?"
> 
> AP: Holocaust survivors blast $20 stipend (07.31.2007)
> 'Survivors have long claimed that European countries treat them far better than Israel, where many elderly survivors live in poverty.'
> 
> Jewish Week: Holocaust Cash Went To Shadowy Pal Of Ousted WJC Leader (05.04.2007)
> 'Israeli finance minister, now being probed for corruption, urged death camp tour group to hire little-known N.Y. consultant; Singer friend Curtis Hoxter can't explain what he did for $709,000.'
> 
> Jewish Week: "Survivors Balking At Lawyer's Fee" (03.02.2006)
> 
> Shocking revelation in the London Jewish Chronicle. ("The man on the left earns $437,811 a year handling Shoah claims. So why are so many survivors pleading poverty?"; 05.30.2006)
> 
> Survivors Protest Holocaust Industry Shakedown (08.29.2000)
> 
> Finkelstein: Will The Holocaust Industry Incite Anti-Semitism? (08.11.2000)
> 
> Finkelstein: Lessons of Holocaust Compensation (2001)


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

More on the "hero" Wiesenthal...



> Reckless Charges in Walus Case
> One of Wiesenthal's most spectacular cases involved a Polish-born Chicago man named Frank Walus. In a letter dated December 10, 1974, he charged that Walus "delivered Jews to the Gestapo" in Czestochowa and Kielce in Poland during the war. This letter prompted a US government investigation and legal action. [38] The Washington Post dealt with the case in a 1981 article entitled "The Nazi Who Never Was: How a witch hunt by judge, press and investigators branded an innocent man a war criminal." The lengthy piece, which was copyrighted by the American Bar Association, reported: [39]
> 
> In January 1977, the United States government accused a Chicagoan named Frank Walus of having committed atrocities in Poland during World War II.
> 
> In the following years, this retired factory worker went into debt in order to raise more than $60,000 to defend himself. He sat in a courtroom while eleven Jewish survivors of the Nazi occupation of Poland testified that they saw him murder children, an old woman, a young woman, a hunchback and others ...
> 
> Overwhelming evidence shows that Walus was not a Nazi War criminal, that he was not even in Poland during World War II.
> 
> ... In an atmosphere of hatred and loathing verging on hysteria, the government persecuted an innocent man. In 1974, Simon Wiesenthal, the famous "Nazi hunter" of Vienna, denounced Walus as "a Pole in Chicago who performed duties with the Gestapo in the ghettos of Czestochowa and Kielce and handed over a number of Jews to the Gestapo."
> 
> The Chicago weekly newspaper Reader also reported on the case in a detailed 1981 article headlined: "The Persecution of Frank Walus: To Catch a Nazi: The U.S. government wanted a war criminal. So, with the help of Simon Wiesenthal, the Israeli police, the local press and Judge Julius Hoffman, they invented one." [40] The article stated:
> 
> ... It is logical to assume that the "reports received by Wiesenthal [against Walus] actually were rumors... In other words, Simon Wiesenthal had no evidence against Walus. He denounced him anyway.
> 
> While [Judge] Hoffman had the Walus case under advisement, Holocaust aired on television. During the same period, in April 1978, Simon Wiesenthal came to Chicago, where he gave interviews taking credit for the Walus case. "How Nazi-Hunter Helped Find Walus," was the Sun-Times headline on a story by Bob Olmstead. Wiesenthal told Sun-Times Abe Peck that he "has never had a case of mistaken identity." "I know there are thousands of people who wait for my mistake," he said.
> 
> It was only after an exhausting legal battle that the man who was vilified and physically attacked as "the butcher of Kielce" was finally able to prove that he had spent the war years as a peaceful farm laborer in Germany. Frank Walus died in August 1994, a broken and bitterly disappointed man.
> 
> Wiesenthal's recklessness in the Walus case should have been enough to permanently discredit him as a reliable investigator. But his Teflon reputation survived even this.


 Simon Wiesenthal: Bogus 'Nazi Hunter'


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

The holocaust industry is a shake-down by Jewish organisations and then the survivors are in turn done out of any compensation...

[ame=http://youtu.be/IRIsuvT0EkA]The Holocaust Industry- Norman Finkelstein with Michael Coren - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## PoliticalChic

Urbanguerrilla said:


> The holocaust industry is a shake-down by Jewish organisations and then the survivors are in turn done out of any compensation...
> 
> The Holocaust Industry- Norman Finkelstein with Michael Coren - YouTube





Next you'll be calling on Jared Lee Loughner as an expert witness for gun control.


----------



## Delta4Embassy

PoliticalChic said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, *the Nazis were fastidious record keepers, and their own records damn them. *To say nothing of the original films showing the camps and corpses. If you look into it, faking film is very hard to do. Faking mdoern day video is of course very easy oweing to the nature of it being all computer code. But faking film is all but impossible.
> 
> If the Holocaust was faked, or never happened, ask yourself why the UN then created the modern state of Israel in 1948 if not out of guilt for allowing the Holocaust to happen in the first place. To say nothing of asking the modern neo-Nazis if they want another Holocaust. If they say yes, the Holocaust happened. If they say no, but what a great idea. It didn't happen.
> 
> Holocaust deniers are simply trying to hurl feces because they have nothing else but their own excrement in their hands, playing with it like children.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What record damns them?
> 
> What do the original films show?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Can you be as stupid as you appear?
> Is that even possible?
> 
> 
> 
> The following from *Stefanie Marsh and Bohan Pancevski, Im No Monster.*
> 
> 1.	On March 12, 1938, Hitlers troops rolled over the border from Germany, into Austria. This was the Anschluss, the annexation of Austria into Greater Germany. Three days later, Hitler entered Vienna, greeted by an enthusiastic crowd of up to one million people. A plebiscite was held in less than a month, and 99.7% of Austrians voted to join the Third Reich.
> 
> a.	In 1938, Austria had a Jewish population of about 192,000, representing almost 4 percent of the total population. The overwhelming majority of Austrian Jews lived in Vienna,
> Austria
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.	The little town of Amstetten, halfway between Vienna and Linz, on the Ybbs River, which flows into the Danube. In May, 1938, the Amstettner Anzeiger was proud to report that the town swimming pool and sunbath declares that Jews are banned from entering. Now we only have to get rid of the mosquitoes from our pool for it to become really ideal. The town had become a Fuhrerstadt! By summer, all 28 of Amstettens Jews had been expelled.
> 
> 3.	Amstettens location as the main railway hub supplying both Germany and Italy made it a target of Allied bombers. The first bombs fell on November 19, 1944
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4.	About 25 miles West of Amstetten, on the Danube, was the town of Mauthausen. Prisoners from the concentration camp at Dachau had been sent to build a much larger facility where political prisoners could be held. The state owned Mauthausen expanded, and by 1944, it was grouped with nearby Gusen, as a commercial enterprise.
> 
> 5.	The German mining company DEST, *used the prisoners as slave labor, to work in the quarries, or to be hired out to local manufacturers and farmers. The Amstetten railway network came in handy to transport the slaves.*
> 
> a.	*The labor supply was inexhaustibleand when a prisoners productivity dropped, they would simply be transported to Mauthausen-Gusen and killed.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6.	*It was a hugely profitable death camp and the only camp designated Grade III  (incorrigible enemies of the Reich ). The motto was Vernichtung durch Arbeit (Extermination through Work) *
> 
> a.	Far beyond Jews, the camp included communists, socialists, Polish boy scouts, homosexuals, Romanies, Jehovahs Witnesses, anarchists, Spanish Republicans who had fled Franco.
> 
> b.	*In 1943, life expectancy in the camps was 6 months; by wars end it was 3 months.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.	*Slave labor was responsible for construction of Austrias largest steelworks and Steyr munitons, Puch automobiles, and most businesses in Amstetten.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8.	It was a place of *inconceivable barbarism *whose secrecy liberated its masters into horrific inventiveness. In the camps *gas chambers, quarries, hospitals, isolation units, and crematoria, in its underground brothel, and on its dissecting tables, a creative degeneracy blossomed.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9.	The camp was liberated on May 5, 1945 by the 41st Reconnaissance Squad of the US Eleventh Armored Division. *They found 85,000 inmates, and estimated the death toll at 320,000. *Among the liberated was Simon Wiesenthal.
Click to expand...



Interestingly, the United States knew about the death camps as early as 1942 since it was mentioned in the movie "Casablanca" from '42. The character who arrives with Bogies ex' being a much sought after escapee from one of the camps.


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

Delta4Embassy said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> What record damns them?
> 
> What do the original films show?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you be as stupid as you appear?
> Is that even possible?
> 
> 
> 
> The following from *Stefanie Marsh and Bohan Pancevski, &#8220;I&#8217;m No Monster.&#8221;*
> 
> 1.	On March 12, 1938, Hitler&#8217;s troops rolled over the border from Germany, into Austria. This was the Anschluss, the annexation of Austria into Greater Germany. Three days later, Hitler entered Vienna, greeted by an enthusiastic crowd of up to one million people. A plebiscite was held in less than a month, and 99.7% of Austrians voted to join the Third Reich.
> 
> a.	In 1938, Austria had a Jewish population of about 192,000, representing almost 4 percent of the total population. The overwhelming majority of Austrian Jews lived in Vienna,
> Austria
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.	The little town of Amstetten, halfway between Vienna and Linz, on the Ybbs River, which flows into the Danube. In May, 1938, the Amstettner Anzeiger was proud to report that &#8220;the town swimming pool and sunbath declares that Jews are banned from entering. Now we only have to get rid of the mosquitoes from our pool for it to become really ideal.&#8221; The town had become a Fuhrerstadt! By summer, all 28 of Amstetten&#8217;s Jews had been expelled.
> 
> 3.	Amstetten&#8217;s location as the main railway hub supplying both Germany and Italy made it a target of Allied bombers. The first bombs fell on November 19, 1944
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4.	About 25 miles West of Amstetten, on the Danube, was the town of Mauthausen. Prisoners from the concentration camp at Dachau had been sent to build a much larger facility where political prisoners could be held. The state owned Mauthausen expanded, and by 1944, it was grouped with nearby Gusen, as a commercial enterprise.
> 
> 5.	The German mining company DEST, *used the prisoners as slave labor, to work in the quarries, or to be hired out to local manufacturers and farmers. The Amstetten railway network came in handy to transport the slaves.*
> 
> a.	*The labor supply was inexhaustible&#8230;and when a prisoner&#8217;s productivity dropped, they would simply be transported to Mauthausen-Gusen and killed.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6.	*It was a hugely profitable death camp and the only camp designated Grade III  (&#8220;incorrigible enemies of the Reich ). The motto was &#8216;Vernichtung durch Arbeit (&#8220;Extermination through Work&#8221 *
> 
> a.	Far beyond Jews, the camp included communists, socialists, Polish boy scouts, homosexuals, Romanies, Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses, anarchists, Spanish Republicans who had fled Franco.
> 
> b.	*In 1943, life expectancy in the camps was 6 months; by war&#8217;s end it was 3 months.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.	*Slave labor was responsible for construction of Austria&#8217;s largest steelworks and Steyr munitons, Puch automobiles, and most businesses in Amstetten.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8.	It was a place of *inconceivable barbarism *whose secrecy liberated its masters into horrific inventiveness. In the camp&#8217;s *gas chambers, quarries, hospitals, isolation units, and crematoria, in its underground brothel, and on its dissecting tables, a creative degeneracy blossomed.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9.	The camp was liberated on May 5, 1945 by the 41st Reconnaissance Squad of the US Eleventh Armored Division. *They found 85,000 inmates, and estimated the death toll at 320,000. *Among the liberated was Simon Wiesenthal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly, the United States knew about the death camps as early as 1942 since it was mentioned in the movie "Casablanca" from '42. The character who arrives with Bogies ex' being a much sought after escapee from one of the camps.
Click to expand...


Did he say they were turning people into soap?

These stories originated with the propaganda departments of the US and UK so its no wonder they appear in a film, a good way to get the message across. 

I like the video of the Jewish woman who remembers being transported to a camp and the train stops to let them have a "shower". She has heard the horror stories and is waiting under the showerhead for the gas to come...and lo and behold is she surprised when out comes nice, warm water (she laughs).


----------



## Whip

Just in case this hasn't been posted before (David Cole, a Jew, explores Auschwitz holocaust story):

[ame=http://youtu.be/aQjNs-Ght8s]Auschwitz the true story ( David Cole in Auschwitz Full Documentary ) - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

Whip said:


> Just in case this hasn't been posted before (David Cole, a Jew, explores Auschwitz holocaust story):
> 
> Auschwitz the true story ( David Cole in Auschwitz Full Documentary ) - YouTube



Cole was hounded, vilified, bullied and threatened by some vicious and very unsavoury characters until he "retracted" his evidence. 

Anyone who raises questions about the holocaust industry gets attacked in this way.


----------



## Pickle

Having started this thread with no bias and having read all 37 (okay, i skipped a few) pages, I'm siding with the "deniers"--or skeptics.

Not saying it didn't happen, but the common narrative has holes bigger than Madonna's twat.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you be as stupid as you appear?
> Is that even possible?
> 
> 
> 
> The following from *Stefanie Marsh and Bohan Pancevski, Im No Monster.*
> 
> 1.	On March 12, 1938, Hitlers troops rolled over the border from Germany, into Austria. This was the Anschluss, the annexation of Austria into Greater Germany. Three days later, Hitler entered Vienna, greeted by an enthusiastic crowd of up to one million people. A plebiscite was held in less than a month, and 99.7% of Austrians voted to join the Third Reich.
> 
> a.	In 1938, Austria had a Jewish population of about 192,000, representing almost 4 percent of the total population. The overwhelming majority of Austrian Jews lived in Vienna,
> Austria
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.	The little town of Amstetten, halfway between Vienna and Linz, on the Ybbs River, which flows into the Danube. In May, 1938, the Amstettner Anzeiger was proud to report that the town swimming pool and sunbath declares that Jews are banned from entering. Now we only have to get rid of the mosquitoes from our pool for it to become really ideal. The town had become a Fuhrerstadt! By summer, all 28 of Amstettens Jews had been expelled.
> 
> 3.	Amstettens location as the main railway hub supplying both Germany and Italy made it a target of Allied bombers. The first bombs fell on November 19, 1944
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4.	About 25 miles West of Amstetten, on the Danube, was the town of Mauthausen. Prisoners from the concentration camp at Dachau had been sent to build a much larger facility where political prisoners could be held. The state owned Mauthausen expanded, and by 1944, it was grouped with nearby Gusen, as a commercial enterprise.
> 
> 5.	The German mining company DEST, *used the prisoners as slave labor, to work in the quarries, or to be hired out to local manufacturers and farmers. The Amstetten railway network came in handy to transport the slaves.*
> 
> a.	*The labor supply was inexhaustibleand when a prisoners productivity dropped, they would simply be transported to Mauthausen-Gusen and killed.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6.	*It was a hugely profitable death camp and the only camp designated Grade III  (incorrigible enemies of the Reich ). The motto was Vernichtung durch Arbeit (Extermination through Work) *
> 
> a.	Far beyond Jews, the camp included communists, socialists, Polish boy scouts, homosexuals, Romanies, Jehovahs Witnesses, anarchists, Spanish Republicans who had fled Franco.
> 
> b.	*In 1943, life expectancy in the camps was 6 months; by wars end it was 3 months.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.	*Slave labor was responsible for construction of Austrias largest steelworks and Steyr munitons, Puch automobiles, and most businesses in Amstetten.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8.	It was a place of *inconceivable barbarism *whose secrecy liberated its masters into horrific inventiveness. In the camps *gas chambers, quarries, hospitals, isolation units, and crematoria, in its underground brothel, and on its dissecting tables, a creative degeneracy blossomed.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9.	The camp was liberated on May 5, 1945 by the 41st Reconnaissance Squad of the US Eleventh Armored Division. *They found 85,000 inmates, and estimated the death toll at 320,000. *Among the liberated was Simon Wiesenthal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly, the United States knew about the death camps as early as 1942 since it was mentioned in the movie "Casablanca" from '42. The character who arrives with Bogies ex' being a much sought after escapee from one of the camps.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Did he say they were turning people into soap?
> 
> These stories originated with the propaganda departments of the US and UK so its no wonder they appear in a film, a good way to get the message across.
> 
> I like the video of the Jewish woman who remembers being transported to a camp and the train stops to let them have a "shower". She has heard the horror stories and is waiting under the showerhead for the gas to come...and lo and behold is she surprised when out comes nice, warm water (she laughs).
Click to expand...





[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6fwd1Rm1nU]All I Want for Christmas Is Jews YouTube - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jos

> The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a historic book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the transfer agreement ("Haavara Agreement" in Hebrew) between Zionist Jews and Adolf Hitler to help create a Jewish state in Palestine, in return for an end of a global boycott of Nazi Germany that had threatened to bring it down in its first days of power.


The Transfer Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

Pickle said:


> Having started this thread with no bias and having read all 37 (okay, i skipped a few) pages, I'm siding with the "deniers"--or skeptics.
> 
> Not saying it didn't happen, but the common narrative has holes bigger than Madonna's twat.



Indeed, I've been amazed at how little most people actually know about the 'holocaust' whether they profess to believe in the official version of events or not. 

People opposing the revisionist approach are vociferous and aggressive but they know little about it and hopefully they are learning as they try and argue for their cause.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Pickle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having started this thread with no bias and having read all 37 (okay, i skipped a few) pages, I'm siding with the "deniers"--or skeptics.
> 
> Not saying it didn't happen, but the common narrative has holes bigger than Madonna's twat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I've been amazed at how little most people actually know about the 'holocaust' whether they profess to believe in the official version of events or not.
> 
> People opposing the revisionist approach are vociferous and aggressive but they know little about it and hopefully they are learning as they try and argue for their cause.
Click to expand...





You furrr it, or a'gin it?


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

Jos said:


> The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a historic book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the transfer agreement ("Haavara Agreement" in Hebrew) between Zionist Jews and Adolf Hitler to help create a Jewish state in Palestine, in return for an end of a global boycott of Nazi Germany that had threatened to bring it down in its first days of power.
> 
> 
> 
> The Transfer Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...


More on the transfer agreement and er, Heil Hitlering  by the World Zionist Congress in 1933...







http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=B5pZAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fkkNAAAAIBAJ&dq=zionism hitler&pg=848,3392650


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

PoliticalChic said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pickle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Having started this thread with no bias and having read all 37 (okay, i skipped a few) pages, I'm siding with the "deniers"--or skeptics.
> 
> Not saying it didn't happen, but the common narrative has holes bigger than Madonna's twat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I've been amazed at how little most people actually know about the 'holocaust' whether they profess to believe in the official version of events or not.
> 
> People opposing the revisionist approach are vociferous and aggressive but they know little about it and hopefully they are learning as they try and argue for their cause.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You furrr it, or a'gin it?
Click to expand...


I'm for history, against myth making


----------



## Jroc

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Transfer Agreement: The Dramatic Story of the Pact Between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine is a historic book written by author Edwin Black, documenting the transfer agreement ("Haavara Agreement" in Hebrew) between Zionist Jews and Adolf Hitler to help create a Jewish state in Palestine, in return for an end of a global boycott of Nazi Germany that had threatened to bring it down in its first days of power.
> 
> 
> 
> The Transfer Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More on the transfer agreement and er, Heil Hitlering  by the World Zionist Congress in 1933...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rochester Journal - Google News Archive Search
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtRDt6uAB0U]Nazi Concentration and Prison Camps (1945) Nuremberg Trials Documentary_WWII Footages_Full Length - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Jroc

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtRDt6uAB0U]Nazi Concentration and Prison Camps (1945) Nuremberg Trials Documentary_WWII Footages_Full Length - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

Jroc said:


> Nazi Concentration and Prison Camps (1945) Nuremberg Trials Documentary_WWII Footages_Full Length - YouTube


`


This is WW2 Allied propaganda, what's the point of posting this?


----------



## Sunni Man

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nazi Concentration and Prison Camps (1945) Nuremberg Trials Documentary_WWII Footages_Full Length - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> `
> 
> This is WW2 Allied propaganda, what's the point of posting this?
Click to expand...


Basically, cause they ain't got nothing else..........


----------



## namvet

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nazi Concentration and Prison Camps (1945) Nuremberg Trials Documentary_WWII Footages_Full Length - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> `
> 
> 
> This is WW2 Allied propaganda, what's the point of posting this?
Click to expand...


to drill a bigger hole up your ass retard


----------



## namvet

Sunni Man said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nazi Concentration and Prison Camps (1945) Nuremberg Trials Documentary_WWII Footages_Full Length - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> `
> 
> This is WW2 Allied propaganda, what's the point of posting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Basically, cause they ain't got nothing else..........
Click to expand...


and you have???

zero


----------



## Jroc

Sunni Man said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nazi Concentration and Prison Camps (1945) Nuremberg Trials Documentary_WWII Footages_Full Length - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> `
> 
> This is WW2 Allied propaganda, what's the point of posting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Basically, cause they ain't got nothing else..........
Click to expand...


Nothing but the truth


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

namvet said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nazi Concentration and Prison Camps (1945) Nuremberg Trials Documentary_WWII Footages_Full Length - YouTube
> 
> 
> 
> `
> 
> 
> This is WW2 Allied propaganda, what's the point of posting this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> to drill a bigger hole up your ass retard
Click to expand...


So basically you have no evidence that this holocaust ever happened other than a simplistic WW2 propaganda vid?


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

Jroc said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> `
> 
> This is WW2 Allied propaganda, what's the point of posting this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, cause they ain't got nothing else..........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing but the truth
Click to expand...


I understand, its Israel right or wrong, but do you honestly believe this video is "the truth"?


----------



## namvet

Urbanguerrilla said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> `
> 
> 
> This is WW2 Allied propaganda, what's the point of posting this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to drill a bigger hole up your ass retard
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So basically you have no evidence that this holocaust ever happened other than a simplistic WW2 propaganda vid?
Click to expand...


yes i DO. enough to make you kiss a jew on the lips, 

you have no evidence that this holocaust didn't happened other than your simplistic feeble mind. what's left of it


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

namvet said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> to drill a bigger hole up your ass retard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So basically you have no evidence that this holocaust ever happened other than a simplistic WW2 propaganda vid?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes i DO. enough to make you kiss a jew on the lips,
> 
> you have no evidence that this holocaust didn't happened other than your simplistic feeble mind. what's left of it
Click to expand...


I've no problem kissings Jews on the lips...






Kissy, kissy, yum - yum...


----------



## namvet

Urbanguerrilla said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically you have no evidence that this holocaust ever happened other than a simplistic WW2 propaganda vid?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes i DO. enough to make you kiss a jew on the lips,
> 
> you have no evidence that this holocaust didn't happened other than your simplistic feeble mind. what's left of it
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've no problem kissings Jews on the lips...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kissy, kissy, yum - yum...
Click to expand...


so the holocaust DID happen. thanks for confirming it


----------



## Pickle

It's not that the holocaust (far less of crime against humanity than the Jewish dominated Stalin government and the HOLODOMOR--where are the Hollywood movies about the Holodomor?) DID NOT HAPPEN. I bet few people actually believe it DID NOT HAPPEN. No one "denies the holocaust ". Sheesh.

The argument is over the details including the amount killed, the use of gas chambers, etc.


----------



## Jroc

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, cause they ain't got nothing else..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing but the truth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I understand, its Israel right or wrong, but do you honestly believe this video is "the truth"?
Click to expand...


No it's a Jewish conspiracy...you're a nutjob


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

namvet said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes i DO. enough to make you kiss a jew on the lips,
> 
> you have no evidence that this holocaust didn't happened other than your simplistic feeble mind. what's left of it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've no problem kissings Jews on the lips...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kissy, kissy, yum - yum...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> so the holocaust DID happen. thanks for confirming it
Click to expand...


Jeez, what are you a ten year old child


----------



## namvet

The last Jew in Vinnitsa  Member of Einsatzgruppe D (a Nazi SS death squad) is just about to shoot a Jewish man kneeling before a filled mass grave in Vinnitsa, Ukraine, in 1941. All 28,000 Jews from Vinnitsa and its surrounding areas were massacred.


----------



## namvet

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVKUknLsNtY&list=TLb49tsAgTo6Nh5mIlZX-Hp031GKS9N9Pj]The Final Solution - Part 6 - The World at War - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Urbanguerrilla

Federal prosecutors are trying to prevent a jury from hearing evidence that a multimillion-dollar fraud at a non-profit which processes Holocaust claims is even more widespread than the FBI and the U.S. Attorney&#8217;s office have so far revealed.

The Claims Conference distributes millions of dollars from the German government to Holocaust survivors around the world. The trial will focus on alleged fraud perpetrated against two Claims Conference controlled funds. But the government&#8217;s motions suggest, for the first time, that additional cases of fraud may have taken place.

The alleged fraud that the trial will address shocked Holocaust survivors, particularly those in the Russian-speaking Jewish community, when it first came to light, in 2010. The plot is thought to involve *thousands of fraudulent claims filed over 16 years* with the Claims Conference.

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/174648/...ims-conference-even-wors/?p=all#ixzz2onpPlu5f


Read more: Was Holocaust Fraud at Claims Conference Even Worse Than Believed? Forward.com


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## namvet

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Federal prosecutors are trying to prevent a jury from hearing evidence that a multimillion-dollar fraud at a non-profit which processes Holocaust claims is even more widespread than the FBI and the U.S. Attorneys office have so far revealed.
> 
> The Claims Conference distributes millions of dollars from the German government to Holocaust survivors around the world. The trial will focus on alleged fraud perpetrated against two Claims Conference controlled funds. But the governments motions suggest, for the first time, that additional cases of fraud may have taken place.
> 
> The alleged fraud that the trial will address shocked Holocaust survivors, particularly those in the Russian-speaking Jewish community, when it first came to light, in 2010. The plot is thought to involve *thousands of fraudulent claims filed over 16 years* with the Claims Conference.
> 
> Read more: Was Holocaust Fraud at Claims Conference Even Worse Than Believed? ? Forward.com
> 
> 
> Read more: Was Holocaust Fraud at Claims Conference Even Worse Than Believed? Forward.com



more propaganda BS. this the best you can do???


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## Urbanguerrilla

namvet said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> Federal prosecutors are trying to prevent a jury from hearing evidence that a multimillion-dollar fraud at a non-profit which processes Holocaust claims is even more widespread than the FBI and the U.S. Attorney&#8217;s office have so far revealed.
> 
> The Claims Conference distributes millions of dollars from the German government to Holocaust survivors around the world. The trial will focus on alleged fraud perpetrated against two Claims Conference controlled funds. But the government&#8217;s motions suggest, for the first time, that additional cases of fraud may have taken place.
> 
> *The alleged fraud that the trial will address shocked Holocaust survivors, particularly those in the Russian-speaking Jewish community, when it first came to light, in 2010. The plot is thought to involve thousands of fraudulent claims filed over 16 years with the Claims Conference.*
> 
> Read more: Was Holocaust Fraud at Claims Conference Even Worse Than Believed? ? Forward.com
> 
> 
> Read more: Was Holocaust Fraud at Claims Conference Even Worse Than Believed? Forward.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more propaganda BS. this the best you can do???
Click to expand...



Propaganda? From The JEWISH DAILY FORWARD 

Your holocaust industry team is taking big hits...

*A fund dedicated to collecting reparations for Holocaust survivors from the German government was defrauded of more than $42 million over 16 years by a group that included six employees and custodians of the fund.* [NYT]
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/10/holocaust-fund-is-victim-of-fraud-prosecutors-say/?_r=0


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## Urbanguerrilla

Seems to be some dodgy photos around, this is a well known photo but its been tampered with 






Here's the original from the NYT magazine, Sunday, May 6th, 1945, pp.42-43....











winstonsmith@theministryoftruth.ls1: The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud


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## namvet

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Seems to be some dodgy photos around, this is a well known photo but its been tampered with
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the original from the NYT magazine, Sunday, May 6th, 1945, pp.42-43....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> winstonsmith@theministryoftruth.ls1: The Most Famous Holocaust Photo a Fraud



of course they have. done by photoflexer.com


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## Beria

How can anyone in their right mind deny it ?


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## Urbanguerrilla

Beria said:


> How can anyone in their right mind deny it ?



Nobody actually does deny it


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## Luddly Neddite

A man having his nose measured during Aryan race determination tests, 1940





The last Jew in Vinnitsa , 1941





Wedding rings from WW II concentration camps. Each pair of rings represents a family, a marriage, a couple. 1945


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## Delta4Embassy

Starting to notice something about Holocaust deniers, gay haters, liberal bashers, evolution deniers, they all seem to agree against those sorts of thiings. So I'm wondering if it's just the specific issues they disagree with, or something more? Like an anti-intellectualism or something.  Some broader issue where the specific issue denying is just a symptom.


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## Urbanguerrilla

Delta4Embassy said:


> Starting to notice something about Holocaust deniers, gay haters, liberal bashers, evolution deniers, they all seem to agree against those sorts of thiings. So I'm wondering if it's just the specific issues they disagree with, or something more? Like an anti-intellectualism or something.  Some broader issue where the specific issue denying is just a symptom.



Maybe people just look at the facts and realise they were fed a line of bs for years. Why do the holocausters have to fake photos?


----------



## namvet

Urbanguerrilla said:


> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to notice something about Holocaust deniers, gay haters, liberal bashers, evolution deniers, they all seem to agree against those sorts of thiings. So I'm wondering if it's just the specific issues they disagree with, or something more? Like an anti-intellectualism or something.  Some broader issue where the specific issue denying is just a symptom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe people just look at the facts and realise they were fed a line of bs for years. Why do the holocausters have to fake photos?
Click to expand...


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## Beria

Birobaijan was the place were Stalin deported Soviet Jews to , thats besides the Gulags !


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## Urbanguerrilla

namvet said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Delta4Embassy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to notice something about Holocaust deniers, gay haters, liberal bashers, evolution deniers, they all seem to agree against those sorts of thiings. So I'm wondering if it's just the specific issues they disagree with, or something more? Like an anti-intellectualism or something.  Some broader issue where the specific issue denying is just a symptom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe people just look at the facts and realise they were fed a line of bs for years. Why do the holocausters have to fake photos?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Lol, you're a true believer in the Hollowcost religion


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## Jroc

Urbanguerrilla said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe people just look at the facts and realise they were fed a line of bs for years. Why do the holocausters have to fake photos?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol, you're a true believer in the Hollowcost religion
Click to expand...


and you're a Jew hater and a true moron. What's it like to be a nut like you?


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## Urbanguerrilla

Jroc said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, you're a true believer in the Hollowcost religion
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> and you're a Jew hater and a true moron. What's it like to be a nut like you?
Click to expand...


Just look in the mirror if you want to see a Jew hater, a true moron and a nut


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## Urbanguerrilla

The Nazis were bad because they burnt books...today Germany is a liberal democracy, thank god...or is it? 



> As a result of the tightening of criminal law, the spring of *1995 saw a wave of book destruction in Germany*, in which history books of revisionist nature as well as political books went the way of the state shredder; these books were exclusively of a right-wing nature, some of them even only allegedly so.
> 
> The fact that books with historical or political content can be destroyed in Germany on the orders of a court is largely unknown. This may be due to the fact that such campaigns of book destruction are not generally publicized - in other words, they are carried out behind the public's back.


 Dissecting the Holocaust: Ernst Gauss: The Controversy about the Extermination of the Jews


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## namvet

Urbanguerrilla said:


> The Nazis were bad because they burnt books...today Germany is a liberal democracy, thank god...or is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a result of the tightening of criminal law, the spring of *1995 saw a wave of book destruction in Germany*, in which history books of revisionist nature as well as political books went the way of the state shredder; these books were exclusively of a right-wing nature, some of them even only allegedly so.
> 
> The fact that books with historical or political content can be destroyed in Germany on the orders of a court is largely unknown. This may be due to the fact that such campaigns of book destruction are not generally publicized - in other words, they are carried out behind the public's back.
> 
> 
> 
> Dissecting the Holocaust: Ernst Gauss: The Controversy about the Extermination of the Jews
Click to expand...


its against German law to deny the holocaust publicly. a fine and up to 5 years in jail. liberal, turd bucket???


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## Urbanguerrilla

namvet said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Nazis were bad because they burnt books...today Germany is a liberal democracy, thank god...or is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a result of the tightening of criminal law, the spring of *1995 saw a wave of book destruction in Germany*, in which history books of revisionist nature as well as political books went the way of the state shredder; these books were exclusively of a right-wing nature, some of them even only allegedly so.
> 
> The fact that books with historical or political content can be destroyed in Germany on the orders of a court is largely unknown. This may be due to the fact that such campaigns of book destruction are not generally publicized - in other words, they are carried out behind the public's back.
> 
> 
> 
> Dissecting the Holocaust: Ernst Gauss: The Controversy about the Extermination of the Jews
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> its against German law to deny the holocaust publicly. a fine and up to 5 years in jail. liberal, turd bucket???
Click to expand...


Thats right, there's no right to free speech...and they pretend to be a democracy


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## JamesMillman

Holocaust deniers make me want to join the pro-choice movement. They should be taxed for the air they breathe.


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## Urbanguerrilla

This story is from _The Australian_

The Australian

GERMANY is to open its first museum dedicated to bomber offensives of World War II that will lay bare how the Allies attacked civilian areas.

Only now, with survivors of the bombing raids well into old age, have the German authorities felt able to portray themselves as victims as well as aggressors in a war narrative dominated by Nazi atrocities such as the Holocaust.

The new museum in Hamburg will commemorate the anniversary of the huge British attack, codenamed Operation Gomorrah, on the port 70 years ago this week that created a devastating *firestorm and killed 34,000 people*. It will be based at the Church of St Nicholas.

Richard Overy, the British adviser on the project, said it would put the destruction of Hamburg into context with an even-handed story of air-raids during the war. The museum is another step on Germany&#8217;s long journey to come to terms with its fascist past and follows the creation of memorials in Berlin to the victims of German genocide.
&#8220;The myth in Britain has been that we bombed military targets and Germans bombed civilian populations, but it is almost exactly the reverse,&#8221; said Professor Overy, author of The Air War and Bomber Command.

&#8220;*The Germans tried to bomb military targets and by mid-1941 the British had given up on that idea and wanted to flatten city centres*,&#8221; he said. &#8220;More people were killed in Hamburg than Dresden but nobody wanted to know that *the object of bombing Hamburg was to create a firestorm and to kill very large numbers of people*. There was a reluctance to focus on what had happened to Germans after what they had done to everybody else.&#8221;

German Side of World War II Revealed | Codoh


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## MHunterB

Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 A little info on that webstain linked to in the post above.....


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## namvet

MHunterB said:


> Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A little info on that webstain linked to in the post above.....



 conspiracy theory - and that's where this crap belongs


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## Urbanguerrilla

MHunterB said:


> Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A little info on that webstain linked to in the post above.....



Wikipedia is the webstain...the truth hurts


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## Urbanguerrilla

namvet said:


> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A little info on that webstain linked to in the post above.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> conspiracy theory - and that's where this crap belongs
Click to expand...


People will read it and see its the truth. 

Try as you may, you can't hide that


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## namvet

Urbanguerrilla said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MHunterB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A little info on that webstain linked to in the post above.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> conspiracy theory - and that's where this crap belongs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> People will read it and see its the truth.
> 
> Try as you may, you can't hide that
Click to expand...


since your slow in the head read it again moron


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## Truthseeker420

namvet said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> conspiracy theory - and that's where this crap belongs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People will read it and see its the truth.
> 
> Try as you may, you can't hide that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> since *your* slow in the head read it again *moron*
Click to expand...


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## Truthseeker420

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PGhHMTbhTY]A Holocaust Debate: Mark Weber vs Michael Shermer - YouTube[/ame]


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## Urbanguerrilla

namvet said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> conspiracy theory - and that's where this crap belongs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People will read it and see its the truth.
> 
> Try as you may, you can't hide that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> since *your* slow in the head read it again moron
Click to expand...


Talking to yourself again


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## Urbanguerrilla

"On 21 June 1944, Heinrich Himmler reportedly told his generals in Sonthofen that the SS had done well to exterminate the Jews, including the women and the children. For Lindtner, this alleged speech corroborates the exterminationist position.

As a matter of fact, the European Jews had not been exterminated. In France, 75% of the Jewish population, and 90% of the Jews who held French passports, were not deported at all.41 In most other countries under German control, the percentage of deportees was considerably higher, but countless documents prove that, while large numbers of Jewish concentration camp inmates died as a result of the conditions in the camps, there was no extermination policy. On 27 July 1944 the administration of Auschwitz compiled a statistical report about the prisoners "temporarily quartered in the camp of the Hungarian Jews.&#8221; The document shows that until that date 3,138 Hungarian Jews had received medical treatment at the camp hospital. 1,426 of them had undergone surgical operations.42 (According to the Holocaust story, a huge number of Hungarian Jews were gassed at Auschwitz between 15 May and 9 July 1944. While not a single one of these alleged gas chamber murders is confirmed by a German document, the medical treatment of 3,138 Hungarian Jews at Auschwitz until 27 July is indeed documented.) As Polish historian Henry &#346;wiebocki reports, no fewer than 11,246 prisoners underwent surgery at Auschwitz between 10 September 1942 and 23 February 1944.43 A very strange "extermination camp&#8221; indeed...".

Inconvenient History | A Quarterly Journal for Free Historical Inquiry


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## Urbanguerrilla

Thought this video was very good, its by that nasty ole David Irving so some of you might want to avert your eyes 

He says Churchill bombed German civilians first in order to force the Germans to bomb English civilians. 

Churchill wanted to use poisoned gas against German civilians, and was drunk when he ordered the RAF to begin bombing with gas. 

He used to forge paintings to raise the funding to cover his debts. 

He made sure the British people wouldnt find out that Hitler was desperately trying to avoid total war and was sending out peace feelers. 

Roosevelt said Churchill was a "drunken bum". 

[ame=http://youtu.be/8qAdJTHQysI]"Churchill's War" by David Irving - YouTube[/ame]


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## Book of Jeremiah

Saigon said:


> Germany wanted the Jews in Palestine (or anywhere else that wasn't Germany).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right - that is why they actively prevented them from emigrating there.
> 
> If the Germans had wanted people to work, they wouldn't have needed industrial gas chambers.
> 
> I suggest you visit the camps and take a look around yourself.
Click to expand...


true


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## Book of Jeremiah

Saigon said:


> Germany wanted the Jews in Palestine (or anywhere else that wasn't Germany).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right - that is why they actively prevented them from emigrating there.
> 
> If the Germans had wanted people to work, they wouldn't have needed industrial gas chambers.
> 
> I suggest you visit the camps and take a look around yourself.
Click to expand...



On October 9, 1981, both parties in the Mermelstein case filed motions for summary judgment in consideration of which Judge Thomas T. Johnson of the Superior Court of Los Angeles County took "judicial notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944,"[1][2] judicial notice meaning that the court treated the gas chambers as common knowledge, and therefore did not require evidence that the gas chambers existed. On August 5, 1985, Judge Robert A. Wenke entered a judgment based upon the Stipulation for Entry of Judgment agreed upon by the parties on July 22, 1985. The judgment required IHR and other defendants to pay $90,000 to Mermelstein and to issue a letter of apology to "Mr. Mel Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Buchenwald, and all other survivors of Auschwitz" for "pain, anguish and suffering" caused to them.[2]

In a pre-trial determination, Judge Thomas T. Johnson declared:

"This court does take judicial notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at Auschwitz Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944. It is not reasonably subject to dispute. And it is capable of immediate and accurate determination by resort to sources of reasonably indisputable accuracy. It is simply a fact."[2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Mermelstein


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## namvet

How Hitler's photographer returned to Dachau concentration camp to take series of chilling images five years after those who survived torture and death at the hands of the Nazis were set free






story


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## PoliticalChic

namvet said:


> How Hitler's photographer returned to Dachau concentration camp to take series of chilling images five years after those who survived torture and death at the hands of the Nazis were set free
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> story






And, in a related story:

"Aborted babies incinerated to heat UK hospitals
The remains of more than 15,000 babies were incinerated as 'clinical waste' by hospitals in Britain with some used in 'waste to energy' plants"
Aborted babies incinerated to heat UK hospitals - Telegraph


----------



## Delta4Embassy

Much as I appreciate people's efforts combating denier's lies, I gotta point out they don't even believe their own propaganda. They mention it simply to hurt Jews and our friends. Thus trying to prove they wrong is pointless because they already know they're wrong. Their hatred is irrational beginning to end but they'll hurl their vile lies if they believe it hurts their enemies. So at some point ya just gotta walk away and let them rmable on. With no one listening, maybe they'll all blow their brains out realizing their continued existence itself is pointless.


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## FlemishMaster

Delta4Embassy said:


> Much as I appreciate people's efforts combating denier's lies, I gotta point out they don't even believe their own propaganda. They mention it simply to hurt Jews and our friends. Thus trying to prove they wrong is pointless because they already know they're wrong. Their hatred is irrational beginning to end but they'll hurl their vile lies if they believe it hurts their enemies. So at some point ya just gotta walk away and let them rmable on. With no one listening, maybe they'll all blow their brains out realizing their continued existence itself is pointless.



While I don't advocate anybody blowing their brains out, I think you are on the whole right here: it's often pointless to debate with people who simply don't care for the facts.
That being said, I do believe it is useful and necessary for those who do believe in truth to keep speaking up and setting the record straigth.


----------



## editec

Delta4Embassy said:


> Much as I appreciate people's efforts combating denier's lies, I gotta point out they don't even believe their own propaganda. They mention it simply to hurt Jews and our friends. Thus trying to prove they wrong is pointless because they already know they're wrong. Their hatred is irrational beginning to end but they'll hurl their vile lies if they believe it hurts their enemies. So at some point ya just gotta walk away and let them rmable on. With no one listening, maybe they'll all blow their brains out realizing their continued existence itself is pointless.



I suspect that is MOSTLY true.

But bear in mind that there are some _very _stupid NAZIs out there.


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## Urbanguerrilla

In early 1944, in February, the Belzec electrocution story once more emerged.74
Finally, at the beginning of May, the New York Times repeated a story in which the
Germans were planning to construct "special baths" which were in fact gas chambers,
and in which the Hungarian Jews were to be exterminated.75 By this time, then, the
gassing claim had become cemented its most typical form.

 It should be emphasized at the end of this brief review of gassing and other
extermination claims that to this point not a hint of what we would normally call evidence
had been brought forward. Nevertheless we can see emerging over time a kind of model
for extermination procedures, what we will call the shower-gas-burning sequence. The
idea that victims would be led into a bathing facility of some kind, and then be executed
(the method of execution focusing on gas more and more as time went by), and then
burned so that no trace would remain was already a very common idea by the summer of
1944.

 In fairness it should also be kept in mind that the shower-gas-burning concept still
coexisted with other methods of extermination, including steam, vacuums, hammers of
air, and electrocution, which have not been alleged in many years. We should expect
therefore a heightened level of material and documentary proof in support of the gassing
allegations as opposed to the others. We will find out the extent to which this is true in
subsequent sections.

 In reviewing these gassing claims we find that virtually all of them came from
anonymous sources in Poland, and that all of them were publicized and propagated by
Jewish agencies in Switzerland, London, and America.76 The conclusion that many
revisionists have drawn is that these gassing claims were therefore developed by Jewish
groups as part of a hoax.77 We would dissent from this interpretation: it is too great a
leap to suggest that these Jewish agencies, in publicizing these claims, knew them to be
false, or were publicizing them to some nefarious purpose. On the contrary, all of the
internal evidence -- letters, diaries, stray conversations -- indicate that the Western Jews
most responsible for the spread of these claims actually believed them.78 Whether these
stories were then used to pursue political ends, and specifically Zionist ends, does not by
itself discount the apparent sincerity of what these Jewish leaders were writing and
saying at the time. To put the matter simply, they were in no position to know what was 
really going on: all they knew, or thought they knew, was that their co-religionists were
undergoing a terrific ordeal of persecution, and needed help.

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/crowellholmes.pdf


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## MHunterB

http://www.holocaust-history.org/19411025-wetzel-no365/crowell.shtml

A Holocaust-denier who uses the pseudonym "Samuel Crowell" has prepared a lengthy essay on why there were no Nazi homicidal gas chambers. Among its many errors is the analysis of this document, NO-365, the Wetzel-Lohse letter describing the need for "Vergasungsapparate" ("gassing devices"). In fact, as we shall see, these are not mistakes which he makes, but examples of the intellectual dishonesty which characterizes the denial movement. 

In his paper, Crowell writes: [1] 


...present day arguments in favor of the mass gassing claim rarely depend on such obvious mistakes, but rather on a second order of documentation that suggests, without directly attesting, to the existence of mass gassing. 307 

One example concerns a draft memo, the so-called Wetzel-Lohse correspondence, concerning conditions around Riga, and entered into the Nuremberg Military Tribunal as NO-365. The draft letter mentions putting large numbers of Jews into the Labor service, and discusses the need for building the necessary "Unterkünfte" with the appropriate "vergasungsapparate". 308 [sic] In the context of the disinfection literature, this is clearly a reference to a Labor Service hut that would be equipped with the standard Entwesungskammern for delousing clothing. 309 Yet this same document has been occasionally put forth as evidence of a homicidal gassing program, even though there is no material or documentary support for that interpretation, and even though there never were any gas chambers in Riga. 310


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## MHunterB

Oh, and of course when we look at the site where UG found the 'Crowell'  writings - it's entitled 'Historical Revision':   Historical Revisionism by Vrij Historisch Onderzoek

And this is the man who owns the site, as explained there:  Germar Rudolf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## MHunterB

Again from the designed-to-appeal-to-the-English website, here is their own definition of 'Revisionism':

"*In contrast to establishment historians,  Revisionists claim that the German State had NO policy to exterminate the Jewish people (or anyone else) in homicidal gas chambers or by killing them through abuse or neglect.*"

Ein Wort zuvor für Neulinge

I think that's a pretty clear statement of the desire to exculpate the Nazis from everything they did ca 1933-1945.


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## Urbanguerrilla

"In a great and lonely field, opposite a solitary house within a large yard, our train
pulled up at last, and the conductor commanded the passengers to make haste and get
out. [...] [The conductor] hurried us into the one large room that made up the house,
and then into the yard. Here a great many men and women, dressed in white, received
us, the women attending the women and girls of the passengers, and the men the
others. This was another scene of bewildering confusion, parents losing their children,
and little ones crying; baggage being thrown together in one corner of the yard, heedless
of contents, which suffered in consequence; those white-clad Germans shouting
commands, always accompanied with "Quick! Quick!" -- the confused passengers
obeying all orders like meek children, only questioning now and then what was to be
done with them. And no wonder if in some minds stories arose of people being captured
by robbers, murderers, and the like. Here we had been taken to a lonely place where
only that house was to be seen; our things were taken away, our friends separated from
us; a man came to inspect us, as if to ascertain our full value; strange-looking people
driving us about like dumb animals, helpless and unresisting; children we could not see
crying in a way that suggested terrible things; ourselves driven into a little room where a
great kettle was boiling on a little stove; our clothes taken off, our bodies rubbed with a
slippery substance that could be any bad thing; a shower of warm water let down on us
without warning; again driven together to another little room where we sit, wrapped in
woolen blankets till large, coarse bags are brought in, their contents turned out, and we
see only a cloud of steam, and hear a woman's voice to dress ourselves, -- "Quick!
Quick!" -- or else we'll miss -- something we cannot hear. We are forced to pick out our
clothes from among the others, with the steam blinding us; we choke, cough, entreat the
women to give us time; they persist, "Quick! Quick! -- or you'll miss the train!" Oh, so we
really won't be murdered! They are only making us ready for the continuing of our
journey, cleaning us of all suspicions of dangerous illness. Thank God!"

Mary Antin's bewilderment at disinfection and quarantine, arising from
disorientation and novelty, is understandable, so too are the wild rumors that would
come from incomprehension and anxiety. But it must be said that such measures were
necessary: the year before Mary Antin made her passage in 1893, Hamburg had been
hard hit by a cholera epidemic, and New York City had been hit with both a cholera and
typhus epidemic.

The Germans, in the context of reorganizing the Turkish army, spent a great deal of
effort in controlling typhus and other diseases.101 The two main tools of this effort were
the Dampfdesinfektionwagens (mobile steam disinfection trucks) and the Turkish baths,
which were converted for disinfection purposes.102 The Germans used primarily sulfur
gas, which required a generator (Vergaser) that would burn the sulfur and provide the
gas.103 Already at the beginning of 1914 the Germans were using vergasen (gasify, gas)
as a synonym for begasen (fumigate). 

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/crowellholmes.pdf


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## MHunterB

No amount of anonymously-penned 'anecdotes' and faked-up 'linguistics' is going to erase the statement by the revisionists that the Nazis were not trying to kill groups of people they felt were less-than-desirable.

You apparently forget that they began the mass murder campaigns within the German population.

Action T4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 

"In addition to 'euthanasia' various other rationales for the programme have been offered, including eugenics, Darwinism, racial hygiene, and cost effectiveness.

The programme officially ran from September 1939[5][6] to August 1941 during which 70,273 people were killed at various extermination centres located at psychiatric hospitals in Germany and Austria.[7] After the official termination of the programme physicians in German and Austrian facilities continued many of the practices that had been instituted under the program right up until the defeat of Germany in 1945.[8][9] This 'unofficial' continuation of the Aktion T4 policies led to more than 200,000 additional deaths. In addition, technology that was developed under Aktion T4, particularly the use of lethal gas to affect large scale murder, was transferred to the medical division of the Reich Interior Ministry, along with transfers of personnel who had participated in the development of the technology.[10] This technology, the personnel and the techniques developed to deceive victims were used in the implementation of industrial killings in mobile death vans and established extermination camps"

The only reason I can see to persist in ignoring such evidence of Nazi mass murders and ethnic cleansing, etc - is to whitewash the many criminal actions of the Nazi government.   And why would anyone do that?  Because they truly do not believe the Nazis were wrong in committing such acts, is my best guess.


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## bianco

Ask the GI's, they'll tell you what was really going on;

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra1LlD5aULQ [/ame]


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## Urbanguerrilla

The main problem with the Gerstein statement is that one does not pick and
choose from a document. Many elements of Gerstein's statement are simply false, if we
reject these, we must legitimately ask why we should give credence to the other
elements.207 As it turns out the only part of the statement which is quoted, and
considered unambiguously true, relates to its repetition of the now conventional shower
gas-burning concept. Yet this simply means that we are using a part of Gerstein to
confirm what we already know.

 The gravest structural difficulty with the Gerstein statement is that it insists on the
use of diesel engines in the generation of carbon monoxide gas for the gas chambers.
Since 1983, Friedrich Paul Berg, a professional engineer and former environmental
expert, has demonstrated that this would be a most improbable method for mass
exterminations: diesel engines emit virtually no carbon monoxide.208 These analyses, in
turn, cast grave doubts on the alleged gassings at all of the Aktion Reinhardt camps,
because, following Gerstein, diesel engines -- usually from Soviet tanks but sometimes
from submarines -- are nowadays always alleged as the means of the gas production at
these three camps.

Another point with Gerstein's statement is not that it can be shown as derivative of
contemporary Aktion Reinhardt testimonies, or that it contains many absurdities, or that
its description of the supposed 600,000 mass murders at Belzec remains essentially
uncorroborated. It is rather that Gerstein, a Zyklon technician, was attempting by his
confession to deflect guilt away from himself, which in turn proves the extent to which
Zyklon was perceived solely as a death dealing mass murder weapon at the time.210 In
this regard he was unsuccessful: after his claims were widely publicized in the press in
July, 1945, the French indicated their intention to try him as a war criminal, and Gerstein
committed suicide.

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/crowellholmes.pdf


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## MHunterB

Got anything from actual historians - or is it all from similarly Nazi-sucking webstains?


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## Urbanguerrilla

MHunterB said:


> Got anything from actual historians - or is it all from similarly Nazi-sucking webstains?



Neither Hilberg or Van Pelt are historians 

Historians are afraid to touch the holocaust because they know they will get vilified and attacked by the crazy zionist goons


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## jillian

Saigon said:


> Anyone who has ever entered Birkenau has felt something of what the Holocaust really meant - its industrialism, its scale, its dedication to inhumanity and barbarism.
> 
> Few documents can convey the horror or the enormity of the killing.
> 
> Certainly posting this kind of gibberish (Why invite nutcase deniers to comment? What is with the numbers?!) doesn't do a great deal to improve our understanding of perhaps the most traumatic event of the 20th century.



and therein lies the issue... it isn't up for discussion. it shouldn't be up for discussion except insofar as passing the facts on from generation to generation. their input should be ignored... as should the input of all hate-filled liars.

they should be ridiculed...not debated


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## Urbanguerrilla

jillian said:


> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who has ever entered Birkenau has felt something of what the Holocaust really meant - its industrialism, its scale, its dedication to inhumanity and barbarism.
> 
> Few documents can convey the horror or the enormity of the killing.
> 
> Certainly posting this kind of gibberish (Why invite nutcase deniers to comment? What is with the numbers?!) doesn't do a great deal to improve our understanding of perhaps the most traumatic event of the 20th century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and therein lies the issue... it isn't up for discussion. it shouldn't be up for discussion except insofar as passing the facts on from generation to generation. their input should be ignored... as should the input of all hate-filled liars.
> 
> they should be ridiculed...not debated
Click to expand...


Huh!


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## jillian

Urbanguerrilla said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saigon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who has ever entered Birkenau has felt something of what the Holocaust really meant - its industrialism, its scale, its dedication to inhumanity and barbarism.
> 
> Few documents can convey the horror or the enormity of the killing.
> 
> Certainly posting this kind of gibberish (Why invite nutcase deniers to comment? What is with the numbers?!) doesn't do a great deal to improve our understanding of perhaps the most traumatic event of the 20th century.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and therein lies the issue... it isn't up for discussion. it shouldn't be up for discussion except insofar as passing the facts on from generation to generation. their input should be ignored... as should the input of all hate-filled liars.
> 
> they should be ridiculed...not debated
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Huh!
Click to expand...


So you think holocaust deniers should be treated as though anything they have to say is of value?


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## Swagger

The same attitude used to be applied to those who questioned the earth being flat.


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## Urbanguerrilla

jillian said:


> Urbanguerrilla said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> and therein lies the issue... it isn't up for discussion. it shouldn't be up for discussion except insofar as passing the facts on from generation to generation. their input should be ignored... as should the input of all hate-filled liars.
> 
> they should be ridiculed...not debated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huh!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think holocaust deniers should be treated as though anything they have to say is of value?
Click to expand...


There's no such animal as a holocaust denier


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## LA RAM FAN

MisterBeale said:


> Many of those other facts that the OP listed?  The American military is guilty of much the same things when it "conquers" a nation as well.  War is hell.



amen to that.

that last sentence and that picture there which Bush sr authorized the military to do and Obama of course wont prosecute him for,that sentence and that picture there make way too much sense for them to comprehend.

that Op sounds like the way OUR military here in the united states treats people around the world that have done nothing to them whatsoever.those numbers have indeed been inflated over the course of history by the establishment who gets to write history.

whats hysterical about that OP piece is that the source being used is the new york times,the lamestream media such as the new york times is controlled by the CIA as you well know and this is the source that is being used? comedy gold.

people like this thread starter dont get it that the media is nothing but a TOOL for the government. they have been programmed by the CIA controlled media their whole lives they cant grasp that.  so many people here are so ignorant about the true intentions of the CIA they dont understand what their TRUE operation is.


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## LA RAM FAN

MisterBeale said:


> Vatican Holocaust Files (Gordon Duff) - YouTube



You did an excellent job taking these government apologists on this thread with these two videos.  talk about holocaust deniers here.the so called holocaust deniars as you just proved in this first video,are the united states government apologists on this thread defending the OP of this thread. the zionists with the help of mass murderers Eisenhower,FDR,and Stalin are the people posters on this thread ignoring the atrocites they committed. 

I notice they have no answers for any of these facts in these videos. In normal cowardly fashion,they wont try and refute the facts in them.they know they are cornered and have been taken to school by you so all they can do is call you a nutcase,ect,ect.


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## LA RAM FAN

editec said:


> . I'm betting that for many, it represents an attempt at a macho 'look at me...I take an unpopular view to a far extreme.'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how many here are actual NAZIs versus how many here are just childish trolls?
> 
> it really does make you wonder doesnt it?
Click to expand...


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## LA RAM FAN

Sunni Man said:


> Quite odd.........
> 
> Eisenhower&#8217;s "Crusade in Europe" is a book of 559 pages.
> 
> Churchill&#8217;s "Second World War" totals 4,448 pages.
> 
> De Gaulle&#8217;s three-volume "Mémoires de guerre" is 2,054 pages.
> 
> Which altogether totals 7,061 pages of memoirs from the allied leaders during WWll .
> 
> Yet there is_ not one single sentence _that mentions "gas chambers" or 6 million jews.
> 
> Maybe all 3 forgot.....or else it didn't happen.........



they of course will never read those true account books since it exposes the lies of the holocause that has been force fed down our throuts by our corrupt government all thes years.

Question: If the official Holocaust story is 100% perfect in every detail and is irrefutable.

Then why do most countries in Europe and Canada have laws sending people to prison for 5 years if they deny or question certain aspects of the Holocaust? 


Indeed,Obviously because they dont want the truth about the atrocities committted by the american government here in the states getting out so they make an example out of the truthseekers.do not question authority,obey our word or suffer the consequences.


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## Urbanguerrilla

"In the context of the postwar period this simply meant that the Allies were not
inclined to trust the German people and least of all their former leadership.255 The Allies
were convinced, on the basis of the Canonical Holocaust, that the German people, or at
least the SS, had engaged in the most barbaric crimes and they would not be dissuaded
by denials.256 Down to the common soldier, one finds that whenever any German
denied knowledge of "what was going on in the camps" the usual conclusion drawn was
that he was simply lying.257 A final contributing element to this Allied paranoia involved
the fact that they were essentially occupying with relatively small numbers a nation of 80
million people; history again shows that when such a small group attempts to impose its
will on the majority, conspiracy thinking is a natural result."

http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres5/crowellholmes.pdf


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