# Quadraplegic Illegal Returned To Mexico Against His Will



## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

> [/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.
> 
> But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.
> 
> ...



Undocumented quadriplegic returned to Mexico from Chicago area - chicagotribune.com

Please read the linked article if you have time; I think the tone of it is worth discussing.

My reaction is, this should not have happened.  The man was almost certainly working without legally-required safety equipment and the subcontractor who hired him should not have found it so easy to evade its workers' compensation obligations.

But it did happen.  If the injured man has any legal remedies here, by all means I hope he pursues them.  However, he was not here legally, his condition was stable and he was moved in a medically safe fashion.  I think returning him to Mexico was not only permissible, it was obligatory.

What say you?  Should a serious injury in the US result in some sort of ad hoc green card for the patient?


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## California Girl (Feb 7, 2011)

They did the right thing by removing an illegal alien.


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## Intense (Feb 7, 2011)

The Sun will do him good.


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## Skull Pilot (Feb 7, 2011)

The illegal should be shipped back, the idiot who hired him should be prosecuted and fined into oblivion.


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## Angelhair (Feb 7, 2011)

_I'm sure all the medical care he got was at the expense of the american taxpayer and totaled thousands upon thousands.  This country took good care of his medical needs - it did the human thing - but - he came here illegally so he belongs back in the country of his birth.  Case closed._


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## Angelhair (Feb 7, 2011)

_BTW - it's high time those countries got their act together and did something for THEIR people - if not, then MAKE them practice birth control!!!!  It's time they stopped looking to the north for their EVERY need!  The fact that they have done NOT ONE thing to fix their broken system is unforgivable especially with all the BILLIONS the USA has GIVEN them.  The american people have had enough._


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## RetiredGySgt (Feb 7, 2011)

Illegal? Kick his ass out. It is after all THE LAW.


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## Skull Pilot (Feb 7, 2011)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Illegal? Kick his ass out. It is after all THE LAW.



Make sure you apply the law to the person who hired him.


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

The linked article mentioned a law review article that evidentially takes the position that sending such a person back to his country is illegal.  I'll see if I can track it down.

Amazes me, the lengths many go to to justify the extension of rights and benefits belonging to American citizens to illegal aliens.  The article in the Chicago Tribune acknowledges that the uninsured American would not be getting more than emergency care....so why exactly, should a criminal from Mexico?

I also loved all the hand wringing over the fact that the Mexican hospital the man is in now has to reuse filters.  Let's ask how many American parents of paralyzed kids whether they do as well, shall we?   Not everyone can afford Cadillac health care -- not every American, nor every human on Planet Earth.


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

I think this is the law review article.  Looks like quite a pro-Amnesty piece.

Powered by Google Docs


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## WorldWatcher (Feb 7, 2011)

>


A very sad case indeed.




Madeline said:


> What say you?  Should a serious injury in the US result in some sort of ad hoc green card for the patient?




No.

That should not preclude receipt of workers compensation for injury on the job, not should the employer not be held liable if there were unsafe working conditions or if proper safety equipment were not available and required for use.  Nor should it preclude an investigation into the hiring practices of the employer as to why they where employing an Illegal Alien in violation of the law and possible criminal charges in that regard.

The man is an Illegal Alien, he was and should have been returned to the country where he holds citizenship.  Now I may disagree slightly with the hospital doing it directly and not through the authority of ICE.

The fact that he said being returned to his own country "against his will" meens nothing and is an emotional tear-tugging.  I would hazard a guess that most Illegal Aliens are returned to their home country "against their will".



>>>>


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## del (Feb 7, 2011)

no


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## GHook93 (Feb 7, 2011)

This one I will agree with you let him stay.

That said this is the problem with illegals being hired onto construction sites. They don't get health coverage or workers comp rights! So when the get hurt they are SOL. If this illegal did it the RIGHT way and came here legally, then he would be covered by insurance and would have received full workers compensation and would have no fears of being deported! The Legal Way is the BETTER WAY!




Madeline said:


> > [/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.
> >
> > But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.
> >
> ...


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Ghook93*
> The Legal Way is the BETTER WAY!



The "better way" for those who want to die in Mexico City at the age of 110 still waiting for their green card.


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> BTW - it's high time those countries got their act together and did something for THEIR people -



It's high time the US did something to turn the shithole countries under its control (Iraq and Afghanistan) into decent places to live. 

*THEN AND ONLY THEN* the country will have any *MORAL AUTHORITY* to demand economic development from its neighbors. 

*THOSE WHO CANNOT DELIVER ECONOMIC PROSPERITY TO THEIR OWN COLONIES SHOULD TAKE A GOOD LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!!*


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## WillowTree (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> > [/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.
> >
> > But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.
> >
> ...



One more good reason not to allow illegals to work within the borders of the continental United States.


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## AllieBaba (Feb 7, 2011)

I was working in a nursing home once where one of our patients was an illegal. This guy was convicted of a brutal rape and murder of a girl in Mexico. He ran to the US, where he was picked up and was waiting in the jail to be shipped back to Mexico to serve his life sentence.

He twisted his sheet around his neck and tried to strangle himself by tying one end to his bunk and twisting.

Well he didn't die officially, but he killed his brain. Unfortunately, he continued to breathe on his own.

So we got him. He weighed about 200 lbs, fed through a stomach tube, wore diapers, had to be turned and changed (and he was like a board)...and that was going to go on forever. They wouldn't extradite him like that, so he became our problem.

What a scum bag.


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## WillowTree (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3294597 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Ghook93*
> > The Legal Way is the BETTER WAY!
> 
> 
> ...



we don't owe anyone a green card do we? or American citizenship? Wanting ain't always gettin.


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## Angelhair (Feb 7, 2011)

_But of course - when all else fails, blame the 'evil' USA!!!!  Ridiculous._


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

> Originally posted by *WillowTree*
> we don't owe anyone a green card do we? or American citizenship? Wanting ain't always gettin.



Couldn't have said it better myself... As a sovereign nation, America is totally free to put a 100 year freeze on any kind of immigration if the american people deems this measure to be appropriate.


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> But of course - when all else fails, blame the 'evil' USA!!!! Ridiculous.



*WORK ON YOUR READING COMPREHENSION, PLEASE!!!!*

I didn't blame America, I just said:

*THOSE WHO DEMAND ECONOMIC PROSPERITY FROM MEXICO SHOULD BE THE FIRST ONES TO SET A GOOD EXAMPLE AND BRING IT TO THE COUNTRIES UNDER THEIR CONTROL* (Afghanistan and Iraq in America's case).

You cannot go around preaching the exact same thing you are unable to deliver yourself.


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## syrenn (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> > [/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.
> >
> > But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.
> >
> ...




I got two words. 


Fuck him.


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## Annie (Feb 7, 2011)

This seems to be a case of hospitals being forced to do what ICE should have done before the man was hurt. 

They stabilized him, flew him back by medivac helo. This wasn't callous, just sending him back where the state has proper jurisdiction. 

Funny how so many of those that think he should have been allowed to stay, complain about the lack of resources for our own poor.


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## Big Fitz (Feb 7, 2011)

> Amazes me,  the lengths many go to to justify the extension of rights and benefits  belonging to American citizens to illegal aliens.



This is part of why I respect you as a liberal Madeline.  You get this.


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## LilOlLady (Feb 7, 2011)

Skull Pilot said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Illegal? Kick his ass out. It is after all THE LAW.
> ...


Maybe the person who hired him did not know he was illegal??


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



There's a federal law says employers must verify eligibility before hiring, LilOlLady.  Not knowing is not a defense unless this man used believable forged or stolen documents.


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Big Fitz*
> This is part of why I respect you as a liberal Madeline. You get this.



Madeline is OK in my book too. I agree with 99% of what she says. The right to deport illegals, the adverse effects their presence cause in the US, etc, etc...

I just sense in her posts a veiled, hidden hostility towards Mexico that is totally unwarranted. The responsibilty for solving the problem of illegal aliens in America lies squarely on the US government.

Madeline has a PHd on the suffering of ethnic minorities in the USA. She's constantly creating threads about the trials of native and african americans.

So let's teach Madeline a bit about the History of Mexico. Let's teach her how this country was victimised by a bunch of anglo traitors and illegal americans who joined forces to perpetrate the second biggest landgrab in the history of the American Continent.

Let's teach her that Mexico was the victim of a brutal war of aggression waged by the US army that cost that country half of its territory.

Let's teach her that if America could fulfill her dream of becoming a continental country that dream was built on the blood and suffering of Mexico.

Maybe then she will drop her ignorant, childish, callous portrayal of Mexico as a nation that causes harm to the USA and will see that from a historical perspective Mexico was the first one to be victimised.


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## GHook93 (Feb 7, 2011)

What angers me about this story is the fact he was working in construction and the Latinos in the story have no problem with this. I live in Chicago and I have a lot of blue collar carpenter and construction worker friends that have had a lot of trouble finding jobs and work! Yet an illegal alien found employment no problem. I am sure he isn't the only illegal taking a high paying construction job from American citizen in need. 

I feel for the guy I really do. I must be horendous to lose control of your body. But as the story pointed out the hospital already gave the kid $650K worth of carry and will probably go well into the millions. The Mexican Government won't do anything but complain. But our hospitals are already go bankrupt and illegal aliens are the prime cause of it.

I have sympathy for this and my kneejerk reaction is to let him stay, but then again what he is doing. (1) Taking a high paying job from an American construction worker, when that field has been gutted, (2) Costing a hospital (one my family goes to) a TON of money that will get pushed onto me and the other patients there, (3) No doubt the money he makes is not getting spent in America and is getting sent home and (4) Lastly, this encourages others to break our system!


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## GHook93 (Feb 7, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



Que? Easy way to fix that, request documentation and then do eVerify!


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## boedicca (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...




Forged and stolen documents are quite plentiful - and a staple of the underground economy in the U.S.


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

boedicca said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > LilOlLady said:
> ...



Yes, I know.  Arizona has a fairly new state law calling for E-Verify, where an employer would have to check with INS before hiring, but the federal government is not cooperating and I am fairly sure the AG is suing to have the law declared unconstitutional.

Your tax dollars at work, eh?


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## Two Thumbs (Feb 7, 2011)

Criminals that injure themselves commiting a crime can't hold anyone responsible, but themselves.

This group that's crying for him should be thanking us for caring for him as long as we did.  Legally speaking we had no obligation to do anything for him.  Fortunalty we are a far more moral country than Mexico.

The person that employed him should face the normal fines, and be serioulsy investigated to find out if he's being careless or if this was just bad luck.


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


> Criminals that injure themselves commiting a crime can't hold anyone responsible, but themselves.
> 
> This group that's crying for him should be thanking us for caring for him as long as we did.  Legally speaking we had no obligation to do anything for him.  Fortunalty we are a far more moral country than Mexico.
> 
> The person that employed him should face the normal fines, and be serioulsy investigated to find out if he's being careless or if this was just bad luck.



I disagree in part, Two Thumbs.  One reason illegal immigration flourishes is employers avoid the cost of complying with workplace safety laws, endanger their employees and then evade penalties and prosecution for doing so because the victims are not citizens.  How much would the harness a roofer should have cost?  These shitheels are risking men's lives to make a fiver or so more a day per worker?  I find that depraved.

If that doesn't stop, their traitorous and evil acts will sink us.


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## WillowTree (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> LilOlLady said:
> 
> 
> > Skull Pilot said:
> ...



Bullshit, Meg Whitman hired her "Illegal" from an employment agency, the "illegal" stole ID, fraudulently signed papers that verified her "legality" and still Mrs. Whitman paid the political price. Is the illegal still in this country? Yes she is? Is she employed somewhere? I bet she is.


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## FifthColumn (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3294755 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> > But of course - when all else fails, blame the 'evil' USA!!!! Ridiculous.
> 
> 
> ...


 
You mean like the way Germany and Japan prospered after the US bombed them down to the ground?


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## Big Fitz (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > Criminals that injure themselves commiting a crime can't hold anyone responsible, but themselves.
> ...


When a Tyson chicken meatpacking plant in Austin, MN (IIRC) was raided by ICE, over 200 jobs were suddenly vacant because the illegals working them at sub standard wages were taken away and deported with their families.

The company moaned that they'd never find anyone to fill jobs "that Americans won't do".  The next day when they opened the HR office for hiring, they had 1000 applicants.  

If you pay a fair wage, Americans will line up around the block for the job.  If you wish to engage in pseudo slavery, which is what hiring illegals all but amounts to, you should be up on criminal charges.


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)




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## Big Fitz (Feb 7, 2011)

You know Madeline, Penicillin takes care of a case of the clap that severe.

Thanks though.


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

Big Fitz said:


> You know Madeline, Penicillin takes care of a case of the clap that severe.
> 
> Thanks though.



I did go overboard...but my Big Fizzy friend, that was an outstanding post you wrote there.


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## Two Thumbs (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> > Criminals that injure themselves commiting a crime can't hold anyone responsible, but themselves.
> ...



I see what you are saying

What I'm saying is that he should not have been there.  If he thought it was unsafe, he needed to stop.  that doesn't excuse the empoyer.  Each man knew the risks, one lost big time, the other is probably getting remmed right now.

Keep in mind, we have vast safety rules.  Following them all is not just costly, but very very hard to do.

Real life;

I was stationed on a ship.  Someone spilled a bucket of grease while we had OSHA abaord.  No fine for dropping the bucket, but while the SA was cleaning it up, he set one of the soaked towels in a buckett.  The OSHA inspector asked him if he was done with the rag, to which the SA said yes.  That cost us $275,000.  Why?  B/c waste oil was not properly stowed.

well actually, the tax payer paid.  The ship has no actual money of it's own.


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

> Originally posted by *FifthColumn*
> You mean like the way Germany and Japan prospered after the US bombed them down to the ground?



No, I mean like Cuba and Puerto Rico continued to be third world countries after being ruled like US colonies for over 50 years.

Germany and Japan were already highly developed first world countries long before America, Britain and Russia bombed them to bits. The only thing America did was replace their authoritarian political structures by democratic ones and lend them money so that they could rebuild their economy themselves.

America's track record regarding economic development among its third world colonies is an abysmal failure.

CUBA, PUERTO RICO, LIBERIA, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN... you name it. 

So again:

Those who demand economic development from others have a *MORAL OBLIGATION* to be able to create it in their own colonies.


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## High_Gravity (Feb 7, 2011)

Maybe they should make a law that allows the authorities to extradite the employer along with his worker back to Mexico? I bet the amount of people who hire illegals will plummet.


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## uscitizen (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> > [/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.
> >
> > But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.
> >
> ...



Nothing happened to the employer?

No no ad hoc green card for illegals if they injure themselves here.
But very strict punishment for those who hire illegals and payment for their injuries in cases like this one appears to be.


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## uscitizen (Feb 7, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Maybe they should make a law that allows the authorities to extradite the employer along with his worker back to Mexico? I bet the amount of people who hire illegals will plummet.



substantial fines and revocation of business liscences on 3rd offense.
If the need is there someone else will open a business or expand one and hre employees.  LEGAL ones.


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3295409 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *FifthColumn*
> > You mean like the way Germany and Japan prospered after the US bombed them down to the ground?
> 
> 
> ...



Jose', Mexico is not a US colony.  How are we any more responsible for its upkeep than we are for the upkeep of Panama?  Or New Zealand?

I think the well-being of the US is tied to the well-being of Mexico, and that it makes sense (and is the humanitarian thing to do) for the US to help Mexico get off its knees.  But that does not include keeping Mexican quadreplegics who are here illegally and have no insurance in the best hospitals we have at taxpayer expense.

I'm sorry, but it just doesn't.


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

> Originally posted by *uscitizen*
> Nothing happened to the employer?



Dude...  Corporate america is one of the main reasons (but not the only one) we don't see mass deportations of illegals in the US.

The guys are so powerful they prevent America from enforcing her own immigration laws and you want to put them in jail?


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

I do, Jose'...but I agree, the odds are against that happening.


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> José;3295409 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree entirely, Madeline...

I am the first one to state over and over that it is a tremendous injustice to ask America to become a kind of Mother Theresa of Latin America housing and feeding millions of poor Mexicans, Guatemalans, Cubans, etc, etc...

A bit of context for you... this whole debate on economic development started when I replied to the following statement:



> *Angelhair*
> BTW - it's high time those countries got their act together and did something for THEIR people -



Here we have an american citizen demanding from Latin American governments the same economic development America failed miserably to bring to Cuba and Puerto Rico during the first half of the last century and is failing miserably to bring to Afghanistan and Iraq now.

A bit hypocritical, dont you think?


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3294904 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Big Fitz*
> > This is part of why I respect you as a liberal Madeline. You get this.
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not quite the ignorant prig you suspect me of being, Jose'.  I can do a full 45 minutes on the evils of the RCC in California and the wretched Mission systems.  And I harbor no ill will toward anyone based only on their nationality....I'm even a fan of much of Mexico's culture.

But I'll admit this much:  I am scared to death of the rising crime level in Mexico and by Mexican gangs in the US.  I am also appalled at the idea that anyone could believe that now, with unemployment here at 10% (and much, much higher for many Americans) the way to solve the problems of poverty in Mexico is to import an entire generation of Mexican poor here.

I like you, and I think you try hard to be fair.  So do I.  But just like any other human, when threatened, I will protect my loved ones and my home first.


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## Againsheila (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> > [/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.
> >
> > But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.
> >
> ...



Unless he was up on his own roof, the guy who hired him should be the one paying for his care.


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

> Jose' wrote:
> 
> Here we have an american citizen demanding from Latin American governments the same economic development America failed miserably to bring to Cuba and Puerto Rico during the first half of the last century and is failing miserably to bring to Afghanistan and Iraq now.
> 
> A bit hypocritical, dont you think?



I'm fairly certain Cuba was never a US protectorate, but Puerto Rico certainly is.  I grew up in New York and feel reasonably conversant with the issues there.  The way the US has exploited that nation's natural resources and failed to invest any of the profits is horrible, I agree.  

You can level some of the same charges at the US as to Guam, the Phillipines and other Pacific island nations too.

I never said the US was perfect, but -- and this is a big one, Jose' -- Puerto Ricans are US citizens.  They are free to enter the country and make a life here, if they wish.  The US has a right to control its borders, to admit all the Cubans or New Zealanders it wishes but yet deny visas to most Mexicans who apply.  

No one has *a right*  to US citizenship except US citizens.


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## High_Gravity (Feb 7, 2011)

If I got hurt while working in Mexico illegally, would their government pay for my care?


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## AllieBaba (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3294737 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *WillowTree*
> > we don't owe anyone a green card do we? or American citizenship? Wanting ain't always gettin.
> 
> 
> ...



That won't happen; that's a fascist strategy.


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## AllieBaba (Feb 7, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> If I got hurt while working in Mexico illegally, would their government pay for my care?



No, and if you were unlucky enough to go to the hospital there and get caught, they would rob you, then put your sick ass into a wheelbarrow, push you across the border, and dump you there.


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Madeline*
> I'm fairly certain Cuba was never a US protectorate.





> After the Spanish-American War, Spain and the United States signed the Treaty of Paris (1898), by which Spain ceded Puerto Rico, the Philippines, and Guam to the United States for the sum of $20 million.[41] Under the same treaty, *Spain relinquished all claim of sovereignty over Cuba*.
> 
> Cuba gained formal independence from the U.S. on May 20, 1902, as the Republic of Cuba. Under Cuba's new constitution, *the U.S. retained the right to intervene in Cuban affairs and to supervise its finances and foreign relations*.
> 
> Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



For the third time:

Those who were/are unable to bring economic prosperity to their own colonies, protectorates and satellite states have no any moral authority to demand it from others.


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## High_Gravity (Feb 7, 2011)

AllieBaba said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > If I got hurt while working in Mexico illegally, would their government pay for my care?
> ...



Thats what I thought, so why are we expected to foot the bill for their illegal citizens?


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3295524 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Madeline*
> > I'm fairly certain Cuba was never a US protectorate.
> 
> 
> ...



So, by this reasoning, because the US exploited Puerto Rico, etc., it has no right to expect/demand/require Mexico to meet even the most basic needs of its own people?  So I guess all that protesting we did to aggravate the former Soviet Union to behave better was ethically flawed as well?  Boycotting South Africa to force it to end apartheid, also an ethical whoopsie IYO?


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## xsited1 (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> Quadraplegic Illegal Returned To Mexico Against His Will



One of my best friends is Mexican living here legally.  (He applied for citizenship years ago, but the USCIS is so broken it's a disgrace.)

Anyway, Mexicans usually stand with Mexicans when it comes to being in this country illegally.  Why?  Two words:  Our Government.  Our government has made it okay for them to come here for so long that they feel entitled to everything (and more) a citizen gets.  And people who try to uphold the law by rightfully calling them criminals and deporting them are demonized by many as racists and xenophobes.  (Obama and Napolitano are the latest examples.)  Mixed signals like this from the government are not only destructive, but immoral.

Americans need to vote out anyone in favor of breaking the law.  Remember that when 2012 comes around.


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Madeline*
> So, by this reasoning, because the US exploited Puerto Rico, etc., it has no right to expect/demand/require Mexico to meet even the most basic needs of its own people? So I guess all that protesting we did to aggravate the former Soviet Union to behave better was ethically flawed as well? Boycotting South Africa to force it to end apartheid, also an ethical whoopsie IYO?



Institutionalised political repression (Soviet Union) and institutionalised racism (South Africa) are the direct results of government decisions and their dismantlement is *TOTALLY* within the power of any government whereas economic development is not and the former sovie states and South Africa themselves are living proof of this. Decades after the end of communism and apartheid they are still developing countries.

If economic development was the simple result of government decisions and was totally within the power of government decisions America would have turned Cuba, PR, Guam, Iraq and Afghanistan into decent places to live.

So yes, America should take a good look in the mirror and refrain from demanding economic development from its neighbors *SPECIALLY WHEN IT'S DONE IN THE CONTEXT OF ANGELHAIR'S POST AS A WAY TO BLAME MEXICO FOR WHAT AMOUNTS TO THE MASSIVE DERELICTION OF DUTY OF THE US IMMIGRATION SERVICE*.


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## FifthColumn (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3295409 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *FifthColumn*
> > You mean like the way Germany and Japan prospered after the US bombed them down to the ground?
> 
> 
> ...


 
But those third world countries kicked the US out. YANKEE GO HOME. Then when they realize that they just kicked out their meal ticket, they start blaming the US for every sin under the sun. Just like spoiled brats, the US should have cut off Latin America a long time ago and let them all die a natural death. The way God intended!!


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## Trajan (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> > [/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.
> >
> > But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.
> >
> ...



I would have made him crawl.......





had to...sorry...it was begging for sarcasm..


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Madeline*
> So, by this reasoning, because the US exploited Puerto Rico, etc., it has no right to expect/demand/require Mexico to meet even the most basic needs of its own people?  So I guess all that protesting we did to aggravate the former Soviet Union to behave better was ethically flawed as well?  Boycotting South Africa to force it to end apartheid, also an ethical whoopsie IYO?



Mexico meets "the most basic needs of its people", Madeline (by most basic needs I mean food). When FifthColumn's name was Bullfighter he posed an interesting question to the whole Board:

*HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A MEXICAN WHO WAS SKIN AND BONES?*

He was absolutely right. There is poverty, slums, street children in Mexico but not African levels of poverty. But the gap between US and Mexican wages is so huge that even Mexico's relative prosperity is unable to stem the flow of illegal immigration.

Nothing short of Mexico becoming a first world country would stop them from crossing the border and this is totally unrealistic. Mexico's government cannot wave its magic wand, shout "*ABRACADABRA*" and sign a decree raising the mexican minimum wage to anything even remotely similar to 1000 dollars (US minimum wage, more or less). 

This highly irresponsible act would bankrupt the whole country in less than 24 hrs. 

And then Madeline, you would *REALLY* miss the illegal immigration problem America has today.


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## BolshevikHunter (Feb 7, 2011)

Fine and Felony prosecution for the idiots who hired him. ~BH


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> > [/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.
> >
> > But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.
> >
> ...



I like how they kept going on about him being removed "without his consent", as though it's a shocking new trend or something.  Last time I checked, criminals are USUALLY taken into custody against their consent.  And while I'm very sorry for his sad medical situation, that doesn't change the fact that he's still a criminal.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 7, 2011)

Skull Pilot said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Illegal? Kick his ass out. It is after all THE LAW.
> ...



And while we're fining the crap out of him for breaking the law by employing illegal aliens, I have no problem whatsoever with making him pay through the nose to get the guy decent medical treatment.  It isn't as though they don't have any good hospitals in Mexico.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Feb 7, 2011)

Skull Pilot said:


> The illegal should be shipped back, the idiot who hired him should be prosecuted and fined into oblivion.



I agree, though I would add the employer should be obligated to refund American taxpayers for the medical care we surely paid for and he should have to pay for his continued medical care in Mexico.  He exploited the immigrant.  Let him see what it's like for the immigrant to exploit him.  An eye for an eye.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3294597 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Ghook93*
> > The Legal Way is the BETTER WAY!
> 
> 
> ...



I'm looking for the point where that becomes our problem, and goddamned if I don't see it anywhere.

If your own country sucks so bad, try fixing it.  Or live with it, I don't care.  Just don't get the silly notion that it's MY country's responsibility to rescue you from your own shitty homeland.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3294644 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> > BTW - it's high time those countries got their act together and did something for THEIR people -
> 
> 
> ...



We're not DEMANDING anything from your pisshole country other than to keep its freaking citizens from breaking our laws.  To demand economic prosperity would require us to give a shit, and we don't.  We're just observing, suggesting, and disdaining.

Those who cannot deliver economic prosperity in their own cesspool home should shut the fuck up about what we should do in countries that AREN'T ours.  We don't need advice on foreign relations from a third-rate excuse for a nation that can't get its domestic shit together.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3294755 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> > But of course - when all else fails, blame the 'evil' USA!!!! Ridiculous.
> 
> 
> ...



Why not?  YOU are preaching to us about delivering something to Iraq and Afghanistan that YOU can't even deliver to your own goddamned citizens.  What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, ass clown.  WE have military combat going on in both Iraq and Afghanistan at the moment.  What's the fucking excuse for Mexico's piss-poor performance?


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## Madeline (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3295591 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Madeline*
> > So, by this reasoning, because the US exploited Puerto Rico, etc., it has no right to expect/demand/require Mexico to meet even the most basic needs of its own people? So I guess all that protesting we did to aggravate the former Soviet Union to behave better was ethically flawed as well? Boycotting South Africa to force it to end apartheid, also an ethical whoopsie IYO?
> 
> 
> ...



I dun agree with everything Angelhair says but this is just bullshit, Jose'.  The US certainly has a tremendous impact on Mexico's internal affairs, I grant you.  And we should acknowledge that and look for ways to be a force for positive change....but there is not now, nor will there ever be, any substitute for *Mexicans who take responsibility for the conditions in Mexico*  and work to improve them.  If India and China can get off their knees, then so can Mexico.

It's that simple.  Their nation, their duty.  NOT the US's or its taxpayers.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 7, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



No excuse.  It's his legal responsibility to know that his employees are legal residents.


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## José (Feb 7, 2011)

Hell, Cecilie!!!!

You react reflexively to any feeble attempt to treat Mexico fairly!!

The other day I replied to an idiot that said Mexico should be fined for the fact that the democratically elected american government made the sovereign decision to ignore its own immigration laws for 30 years and instead of giving me positive rep you almost nailed me to a saguaro.

Now I just said the famous "line" immigrants are supposed to wait in is a figment of Ghook's imagination and got the same treatment.

I did not say it was the right way to enter America, I did not say America has any obligation to create any line for them...

I just stated the fact that poor, unskilled mexican workers do not wait in line simply because there is no line to wait in.

Holy shit!! Lighten up a bit before you explode!!


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3295409 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *FifthColumn*
> > You mean like the way Germany and Japan prospered after the US bombed them down to the ground?
> 
> 
> ...



First of all, fucktard, Cuba isn't "ruled like a US colony".  The US government has basic diplomatic contact with them, and that's about all.  We don't even trade with them, and our citizens aren't allowed to travel there (directly).  So we're wholly not responsible for the condition of Cuba.

Second of all, shitstain, Puerto Rico isn't "ruled like a US colony", either.  They're an official United States territory, which THEY THEMSELVES chose to be through legal elections, and which they continue to choose to be, wishing to enjoy the benefits of being part of the United States without the responsibilities that go with being a full-fledged state.  ::shrug::  And they are no more a third-world country than any other part of the US is, and a damned sight less than some areas I've been to.  Their citizens enjoy the same rights, benefits, amenities, and standard of living that the average US citizen does.

Third, flatliner, Iraq and Afghanistan, unlike Puerto Rico, American Samoa, etc. are not US territories, colonies, or anything else of that nature.  They are nations in which we are conducting military actions.  As noted before, one does not start trying to estabish an Ozzy and Harriet lifestyle in a place while still trying to militarily pacify it.  Furthermore, they are both sovereign nations, with their own governments, and will continue to be so after we are done conducting military campaigns there.  Therefore, it is their own governments' jobs to provide them with economic prosperity, not ours.


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## Angelhair (Feb 7, 2011)

'THOSE WHO DEMAND ECONOMIC PROSPERITY FROM MEXICO SHOULD BE THE FIRST ONES TO SET A GOOD EXAMPLE AND BRING IT TO THE COUNTRIES UNDER THEIR CONTROL (Afghanistan and Iraq in America's case).'



_I tell you what - let's just be ALL things to ALL people ALL over this world!  Let's take them ALL in and do for them what their countries will not do!  Let's all get on our knees and beg for more poverty to be imported into this nation of ours and let the bleeding heart liberals pick up the tab.  Let's tell ALL of these nations to screw themselves and that we are coming in to their sovereign country and do it for them whether they like it or not.  We will fix whatever is broken for you!  WE will tell Iraq and Afghanistan that the party is over and WE will handle EVERYTHING for them - that the end of their sovereignty is OVER!!!  Then let's tell Mexico that they are NO longer a sovereign nation and that from now on WE will be in control of their country!  After all, WE ARE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!  WE ARE A PROSPEROUS AND POWERFUL COUNTRY!  WE CAN DO BY GOLLY - YES WE CAN!!!!_


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3295524 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Madeline*
> > I'm fairly certain Cuba was never a US protectorate.
> 
> 
> ...



1902?  Really?

You should have read your own fucking link a little farther, moron.

In the 1961 New Year's Day parade, the administration exhibited Soviet tanks and other weapons.[66] Eventually, Cuba built up the second largest armed forces in Latin America, second only to Brazil. _Cuba became a privileged client-state of the Soviet Union_.

The US hasn't had anything to do with how Cuba is run for longer than the 50 years you mentioned when you first started babbling about how we owe more to nations we're currently conducting wars in than Mexico apparently does to its own people.  Try to keep up, asshole.


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## The Infidel (Feb 7, 2011)

Wonder if Chicago is a sanctuary city


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## Dr Grump (Feb 7, 2011)

LilOlLady said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



wouldn't he have to have had a ss number to get the job?


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## Dr Grump (Feb 7, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> The US hasn't had anything to do with how Cuba is run for longer than the 50



RATFLMAO...yeah, right....


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 7, 2011)

José;3296195 said:
			
		

> Hell, Cecilie!!!!
> 
> You react reflexively to any feeble attempt to treat Mexico fairly!!



Nope.  The problem actually isn't Mexico.  It's the fucktards like you that it happens to produce that I don't like.  And frankly, the shit stream that spews from your keyboard every time you put your fingers to it doesn't DESERVE to be treated with any kind of respect or courtesy.

And this is all completely aside from the fact that, as an intelligent, educated adult, I do not waste my time with meaningless kindergarten concepts like "fair", the meaning of which is purely subjective according to the agenda of the person uttering it.



			
				José;3296195 said:
			
		

> The other day I replied to an idiot that said Mexico should be fined for the fact that the democratically elected american government made the sovereign decision to ignore its own immigration laws for 30 years and instead of giving me positive rep you almost nailed me to a saguaro.



Yes, well, you should be glad that the saguaro is a protected species in Arizona, then.  I would never damage one by nailing your worthless hide to it.

However, I can assure you that there's nothing reflexive about my hostility to you and your bullshit.  To the contrary, I read the posts to which I reply quite carefully, and think about them thoroughly before describing to you the exact way in which you sound like a buffoon THIS time.

And for the record, while I am certainly hostile to illegal immigrants (of all nationalities and ethnicities, thank you very much), I have no hostility toward Mexicans in general at all.  I actually think quite highly of the Mexican communities which I live near.  So don't get any stupid ideas about me disliking you because of racism; I dislike you on a purely personal level.



			
				José;3296195 said:
			
		

> Now I just said the famous "line" immigrants are supposed to wait in is a figment of Ghook's imagination and got the same treatment.



I really can't say that it makes a difference to me whether the bullshit you spew is quoted from someone else or wholly original material.



			
				José;3296195 said:
			
		

> I did not say it was the right way to enter America, I did not say America has any obligation to create any line for them....



Unfortunately for you, I have an extensive memory, so you're pretty much dragging every other ignorant thing you've ever said on the subject of Mexico, Mexicans, and illegal immigration behind you like the smell from a giant taco fart.

If you're looking for me to congratulate you on figuring out, after all this time, that America doesn't owe illegal immigrants anything but to be treated like the criminals they are, I wouldn't suggest holding your breath.



			
				José;3296195 said:
			
		

> I just stated the fact that poor, unskilled mexican workers do not wait in line simply because there is no line to wait in.
> 
> Holy shit!! Lighten up a bit before you explode!!



Of course there's a line to wait in.  People move here legally from Mexico all the time.


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## Big Fitz (Feb 7, 2011)

Madeline said:


> Big Fitz said:
> 
> 
> > You know Madeline, Penicillin takes care of a case of the clap that severe.
> ...


Well Thank you Mads.  true case and the abuse illegal immigrants are  suffering because they are a 'shadow population' is just as intolerable  as allowing them to continue to come into this country unlawfully.

Those who profit from this situation ARE criminals.


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## Big Fitz (Feb 7, 2011)

> America's track record regarding economic development among its third  world colonies is an abysmal failure.



Not entirely true.  They're just catagorically bad, in the short term for the US.  In the long term, it MAY turn out good.  More often than not, it doesn't.  I think we should consider ending rebuilding policies of nations who we were at war with.



> CUBA, PUERTO RICO, LIBERIA, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN... you name it.



Puerto Rico is not a colony, it is a territory that has yet to decide for itself if it wants to be a state or just remain a territory.  All others are not colonies.  If you have proof of colonization, I'd love to see HARD data, not hackneyed propaganda from lunatics.  Cuba a colony?  Explain Castro.


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## RadiomanATL (Feb 7, 2011)

What kept striking me was the phrase "returned to Mexico against his consent".

Well hell, too bad. He came here without OUR consent.


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## FifthColumn (Feb 8, 2011)

The Infidel said:


> Wonder if Chicago is a sanctuary city


 
It is, plus Cook County where Chicago is located.


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## FifthColumn (Feb 8, 2011)

José;3295918 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Madeline*
> > So, by this reasoning, because the US exploited Puerto Rico, etc., it has no right to expect/demand/require Mexico to meet even the most basic needs of its own people? So I guess all that protesting we did to aggravate the former Soviet Union to behave better was ethically flawed as well? Boycotting South Africa to force it to end apartheid, also an ethical whoopsie IYO?
> 
> 
> ...


 
The irresponsible act is for the United States to continue to feed the monster at the expense of poor Americans. How much stimulus money went south of the border?

Let the whole of Latin America fall, and let LATINOS clean up the mess just like people from countries worse off do all the time. Stop using America as the scapegoat. GROW UP!


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## gekaap (Feb 8, 2011)

I have to admit that this was hard for me to read because I have a younger brother who is physically challenged and in motorized wheelchair.  So I didn't really read too deeply into the thread.  But I can say that the fact that he is an illegal justifies deportation, but the fact that he was under hospital care demands that he give consent before first being transferred to a different hospital.


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## Big Fitz (Feb 8, 2011)

FifthColumn said:


> The Infidel said:
> 
> 
> > Wonder if Chicago is a sanctuary city
> ...


What a good day it will be when the Feds start prosecuting city governments for violating immigration law and refusing to do their duly sworn duties.


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## FifthColumn (Feb 8, 2011)

gekaap said:


> I have to admit that this was hard for me to read because I have a younger brother who is physically challenged and in motorized wheelchair. So I didn't really read too deeply into the thread. But I can say that the fact that he is an illegal justifies deportation, but the fact that he was under hospital care demands that he give consent before first being transferred to a different hospital.


 
Exactly! He'll be moved to a hospital in Mexico where Mexicans will have to foot the bill. Though we could hung him on the border fence to scare the crap out of the next batch of invaders.

I feel sorry for all those American vets and their families who are being betrayed by this Latino invasion.


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## FifthColumn (Feb 8, 2011)

Latin Americans: Do use all a favor and watch.....

How To Use A Condom Video | STD Help


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## AmericanFirst (Feb 9, 2011)

Madeline said:


> The linked article mentioned a law review article that evidentially takes the position that sending such a person back to his country is illegal.  I'll see if I can track it down.
> 
> Amazes me, the lengths many go to to justify the extension of rights and benefits belonging to American citizens to illegal aliens.  The article in the Chicago Tribune acknowledges that the uninsured American would not be getting more than emergency care....so why exactly, should a criminal from Mexico?
> 
> I also loved all the hand wringing over the fact that the Mexican hospital the man is in now has to reuse filters.  Let's ask how many American parents of paralyzed kids whether they do as well, shall we?   Not everyone can afford Cadillac health care -- not every American, nor every human on Planet Earth.


How could sending him back be illegal? Must have been some dimwit that wrote that stupid law. Sending him back was the right thing to do.


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## Madeline (Feb 9, 2011)

AmericanFirst said:


> Madeline said:
> 
> 
> > The linked article mentioned a law review article that evidentially takes the position that sending such a person back to his country is illegal.  I'll see if I can track it down.
> ...



It was a law review article, AmericanFirst, not a new law.  Some lawyer's POV.  Apparently, his interpretation was that when a hospital sends an illegal alien patient home, it "illegally" usurps the deportation authority of INS.

I only skimmed it, as it struck me as bullshit.


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## Cecilie1200 (Feb 9, 2011)

Madeline said:


> AmericanFirst said:
> 
> 
> > Madeline said:
> ...



Also, apparently, they feel his HIPAA rights were violated because it was the hospital transferring him, rather than the government, and they're not supposed to do that without his consent.  Frankly, he should be grateful they didn't just discharge him and let him make his own way to the other hospital, which WOULDN'T have violated any HIPAA rights.


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## Angelhair (Feb 9, 2011)

José;3294904 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Big Fitz*
> > This is part of why I respect you as a liberal Madeline. You get this.
> 
> 
> ...


_
Hey Jose, do you hear the violins in the background?  Just for you, crybaby, just for you!_


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## José (Feb 10, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> Nothing wrong with that. Let's ask Jose why Mexico after all these centuries can't take care of its own???? I know - BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES HAS KEPT IT FROM DOING SO - Got it.





> Originally posted by *Cecilie1200*
> And this is all completely aside from the fact that, as an intelligent, educated adult, I do not waste my time with meaningless kindergarten concepts like "fair", the meaning of which is purely subjective according to the agenda of the person uttering it.



Here's my position on immigration briefly summed up:

1 America has every right to take any measure she deems apropriate regarding illegals: from amnesty to the deportation of millions of illegals residing in America for a couple of decades.

2 America should not be blamed for Mexico's underdevelopment because its poverty historically preceded any meaningful contact between both countries.

3 America should not be blamed or considered responsible for the continued presence of drug cartels in Mexican territory as well as the thousands of deaths that results from the drug war. It's not fair to blame a country for being wealthy and secular. The responsability for the dismantlement or expulsion of such organisations falls squarely on the mexican government.

4 Mexico should refrain from issuing official complaints, filing lawsuits and exercising political pressure on America regarding illegal immigration since this is clearly an internal matter (although the political pressure of weak, powerless third world countries like Mexico do not have any bearing on America's decisions).

Note that I support mass deportations. You can't get any tougher on illegal immigration than this, short of advocating life sentences or gas chambers for illegal immigrants.

Show me where the bias against America is, Angelhair?? Cecilie??

Exactly where am I not being absolutely fair to the USA?


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## Middleman (Feb 10, 2011)

All quads from everywhere in the world should be brought to the U.S. for free medical care.


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## Madeline (Feb 10, 2011)

José;3304896 said:
			
		

> > Originally posted by *Angelhair*
> > Nothing wrong with that. Let's ask Jose why Mexico after all these centuries can't take care of its own???? I know - BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES HAS KEPT IT FROM DOING SO - Got it.
> 
> 
> ...



You are as fair as you can be, Jose'.  It is clear you have a window on the suffering of the poor in Mexico that most of us do not have, and such a thing would light a fire under the ass of any sentient adult.

My only complaint about your POV is the sense of hopelessness you feel about conditions on Mexico ever improving -- but that is understandable as well.  Doubtless, you have seen many well-meaning initiatives fail.

I wouldn't fret too long about whether Cecilie approves of your POV.  She never approves of any of mine, and I sleep just fine.  I don't think Hitler would have been far enough right to suit her.


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## José (Feb 10, 2011)

> Originally posted by *Madeline*
> I wouldn't fret too long about whether Cecilie approves of your POV. She never approves of any of mine, and I sleep just fine. I don't think Hitler would have been far enough right to suit her.



So true. She's always cranky and about as sweet as a charging rhino. You can almost smell the testosterone in the air.

If I had to choose between marrying her or Mike Tyson I would ask two weeks to think about it.


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## José (Feb 10, 2011)

As opposed to you, Madeline... I imagine you as a sweet 10 year old little girl typing your messages.

I mean, you don't have any malice just like a little girl. You always speak your mind, what you really think about any subject. I've never seen a single trollish post by you.


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## Madeline (Feb 10, 2011)

José;3305012 said:
			
		

> As opposed to you, Madeline... I imagine you as a sweet 10 year old little girl typing your messages.
> 
> I mean, you don't have any malice just like a little girl. You always speak your mind, what you really think about any subject. I've never seen a single trollish post by you.



You are such a dear, Jose'.  I can burst into flames at times, and I fancy myself quite an accomplished bitch, but I do try and support the POV I see as fair.


----------

