# incandescent bulbs go into the dustbin of history



## Dot Com (Jan 8, 2014)

better start stock-piling bulb heads.

The Incandescent Light Bulb Is Now Illegal -- Here's What You Need to Know - iVillage


----------



## mamooth (Jan 10, 2014)

Well, I did just use them as little space heaters out in the garage to help keep pipes from freezing. But no biggie. I can still buy 200 watt bulbs, or replace them with actual space heaters, if necessary.


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Jan 10, 2014)

Banning shit. The MO and most important thing to modern day LOLberals. You fucks just love a good banning, dont you? Authoritarian booklickers - do they realize what they are?


----------



## mamooth (Jan 10, 2014)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Banning shit. The MO and most important thing to modern day LOLberals. You fucks just love a good banning, dont you? Authoritarian booklickers - do they realize what they are?



Did we say "Conservatives crybabies, please start whining now like the little bitches that you are"?

No? Then why did you do it?


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 10, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> better start stock-piling bulb heads.
> 
> The Incandescent Light Bulb Is Now Illegal -- Here's What You Need to Know - iVillage



CUte cartoon.. But weren't you one of the leftist morons on USMB six months ago telling us that the govt WAS NOT gonna make incandescent illegal?? 

*Right now until MARCH --- ANY incandescent bulb used in a heated area of a home is 100% efficient.. You've been pawned with propaganda.. *


----------



## TheOldSchool (Jan 10, 2014)

"Lightbulbs don't waste electricity, people waste electricity"


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 10, 2014)

BTW- this satire drawing is from 2011. I saved it because i knew the day was coming.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Jan 10, 2014)

I think government should be able to ban some things but doing it to a form of light bulb??? I feel the consumer should of had the choice.


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Jan 10, 2014)

Great. Now we get those useless bulbs that don't light anything up.


----------



## boedicca (Jan 10, 2014)

So, DC gives a thumbs up to Big Gubmint Crony Corporations getting a low margin product banned so that consumers are forced to buy much more expensive, higher margin products.

Good to see him out himself as a Crony Stooge.


----------



## hunarcy (Jan 10, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Great. Now we get those useless bulbs that don't light anything up.



You mean the ones  you need a hazmat team to clean up if it breaks and can cause us to develop cancer?  Who wouldn't be excited that our national government is forcing us to switch to them?


----------



## ScienceRocks (Jan 10, 2014)

I think we should ban the chemical that causes cancer. Now that is a good use of government...


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy (Jan 10, 2014)

hunarcy said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> > Great. Now we get those useless bulbs that don't light anything up.
> ...



Those would be the ones. I can't imagine why they weren't able to compete on the market by themselves.


----------



## rightwinger (Jan 10, 2014)

I have been buying incandescent bulbs at ten cents a piece and will sell them in a year for ten dollars each......I will become a lightbulb millionaire

People will miss their old inefficient bulbs and will come crawling to me!

Ha......ha.....ha.....ha


----------



## Pennywise (Jan 10, 2014)

You really have to be some kind of brain dead monkey to celebrate this kind of Federal intrusion. 

It's the progressive's pathological desire to control people when they don't like their choices. And in this case, all from bogus ideas. Absolute 100% pure fucking bullshit.

Signed into law by progressive republican GW Bush.


----------



## boedicca (Jan 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> I have been buying incandescent bulbs at ten cents a piece and will sell them in a year for ten dollars each......I will become a lightbulb millionaire
> 
> People will miss their old inefficient bulbs and will come crawling to me!
> 
> Ha......ha.....ha.....ha




We have a 50 year supply in our basement.

Bwahahahaha!


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 10, 2014)

If you didn't stock up when the impending ban was first discussed.....then don't cry.  Just suck it up, chalk it to your own stupidity.  Remember, the tree-huggers next target is toilet paper.


----------



## hunarcy (Jan 10, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Remember, the tree-huggers next target is toilet paper.



OMG, NOT THAT!  Anything, but that!


----------



## RKMBrown (Jan 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> I have been buying incandescent bulbs at ten cents a piece and will sell them in a year for ten dollars each......I will become a lightbulb millionaire
> 
> People will miss their old inefficient bulbs and will come crawling to me!
> 
> Ha......ha.....ha.....ha



Govco knows you have em... don't think for a second they won't be coming to your house to take your bulbs away from ya!

They came for my toilets and I was ok with that because I have small poo.  
They came for my guns and I was ok with that because I'm scared of guns.
They came for my paycheck and I was ok with that because I didn't want to work anyways.
They came for my bulbs and no one was left to defend me.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> I have been buying incandescent bulbs at ten cents a piece and will sell them in a year for ten dollars each......I will become a lightbulb millionaire
> 
> People will miss their old inefficient bulbs and will come crawling to me!
> 
> Ha......ha.....ha.....ha



you ARE the clever one


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 10, 2014)

Not for nothing is He called "Obama, Prince of Darkness".


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 10, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> If you didn't stock up when the impending ban was first discussed.....then don't cry.  Just suck it up, chalk it to your own stupidity.  Remember, the tree-huggers next target is toilet paper.



yep, if you notice, that pic I posted was from 2011. Barack  gave ample notice.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Jan 10, 2014)

Can we all agree that the cancer chemical in these bulbs needs banned?


----------



## rightwinger (Jan 10, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I have been buying incandescent bulbs at ten cents a piece and will sell them in a year for ten dollars each......I will become a lightbulb millionaire
> ...


You forgot marijuana


----------



## RKMBrown (Jan 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


We don't have it in TX yet they took that back in the 60s.


----------



## froggy (Jan 10, 2014)

More idiocy from your Gov"t


----------



## rightwinger (Jan 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I have been buying incandescent bulbs at ten cents a piece and will sell them in a year for ten dollars each......I will become a lightbulb millionaire
> ...



Those fools who think they will enjoy paying pennies a day for light will come begging to me


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 10, 2014)

spray paint on them- "freedom filaments" and charge a bundle for them


----------



## rightwinger (Jan 10, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> spray paint on them- "freedom filaments" and charge a bundle for them



Obama does not want you to have incandescent bulbs


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 10, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



When the SWAT TEAM blows in your door, hogties your family and wisks you off to a CIA facility in Bulgaria for interrogation --- Please do check back in on USMB and tell us...


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro (Jan 10, 2014)

Pennywise said:


> It's the progressive's pathological desire to control people when they don't like their choices.



The left uses the government to force people to conform to their views and way of life. The right uses the government to force people to conform to their views and way of life. The only difference is what you each choose to force down the rest of our throats.


----------



## Kosh (Jan 10, 2014)

The far left obviously loves this!


----------



## mamooth (Jan 10, 2014)

You certainly can argue with success. You just look crazy and stupid when you do so. Like the conservatives on this thread.

Conservatives, what's it feel like to have been totally wrong about your predictions of doom here? Of course, you all have lots of practice at being totally wrong about everything, so I imagine it doesn't bother you much.


----------



## rightwinger (Jan 10, 2014)

mamooth said:


> You certainly can argue with success. You just look crazy and stupid when you do so. Like the conservatives on this thread.
> 
> Conservatives, what's it feel like to have been totally wrong about your predictions of doom here? Of course, you all have lots of practice at being totally wrong about everything, so I imagine it doesn't bother you much.



Conservatives are right....CFLs and LEDs are just liberal gimmicks 

People will beg for incandescents. If they were good enough for my grandma, they are good enough for me


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 10, 2014)

When you're done with a burned out twisty Obamabulb you can't put it in the trash!

However, you CAN screw it into the ground.

Y'know, just like He is screwing America into the ground.


----------



## Pop23 (Jan 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> So, DC gives a thumbs up to Big Gubmint Crony Corporations getting a low margin product banned so that consumers are forced to buy much more expensive, higher margin products.
> 
> Good to see him out himself as a Crony Stooge.



There are no bright bulbs in DC, the Pols are just leveling the playing field.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 10, 2014)

mamooth said:


> You certainly can argue with success. You just look crazy and stupid when you do so. Like the conservatives on this thread.
> 
> Conservatives, what's it feel like to have been totally wrong about your predictions of doom here? Of course, you all have lots of practice at being totally wrong about everything, so I imagine it doesn't bother you much.



I'm not a right-winger, but it bothers me that a GOOD lightbulb now costs a large portion of an unemployment check.. Or that a solid lightning strike could take out a $100 worth of Govt approved lightbulbs. 

I'm sure you problem-creating leftists will get right on those issues.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 10, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > You certainly can argue with success. You just look crazy and stupid when you do so. Like the conservatives on this thread.
> ...



You must've missed the executive order prohibiting lightning strikes on homes lighted by Obamabulbs!

It was a sub-section of the same EO that kept the ocean from devouring Manhattan as Algore promised.


----------



## westwall (Jan 10, 2014)

boedicca said:


> So, DC gives a thumbs up to Big Gubmint Crony Corporations getting a low margin product banned so that consumers are forced to buy much more expensive, higher margin products.
> 
> Good to see him out himself as a Crony Stooge.








Don't forget highly toxic.  The CFL bulbs have fairly high levels of mercury in them so they qualify as toxic waste.  Nothing quite like exchanging a moderately efficient, low cost light bulb for a moderately efficient, high cost, toxic replacement. 

Only a investor in GE could like something like that.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Jan 10, 2014)

Time to ban the cancer causing chemicals!!!!


----------



## mamooth (Jan 10, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> I'm not a right-winger, but it bothers me that a GOOD lightbulb now costs a large portion of an unemployment check.. Or that a solid lightning strike could take out a $100 worth of Govt approved lightbulbs.



Sane people always fret about a lightning strike taking out their lightbulbs, of course. Not about frying the appliances or burning down the house. No, it's the light bulbs we need to worry about.

That is, you're just giving us paranoid gibberish. Not to mention you're off in cuckooland concerning prices.

And yes, you are a right-winger. Who do you think you're fooling?


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 10, 2014)

Abuse of cats is not cool.  

Rubbing them together to make electricity is cruel....though more effective over the long term than windmills.

Meanwhile, it doesn't take many Obamabulbs to run up the cost to $100.  Far fewer than of the reliable old kind.  So whether lightning strikes take out plain vanilla light bulbs, curly  (mercury filled) bulbs or LED lamps.....dead is dead.  Only the replacements cost more for the mandated sort.  Of course libs will soon introduce a program to provide free replacements for registered Democrat voters (or for benefit dependent potential voters) so you need not worry.


----------



## mamooth (Jan 10, 2014)

westwall said:


> Don't forget highly toxic.  The CFL bulbs have fairly high levels of mercury in them so they qualify as toxic waste.  Nothing quite like exchanging a moderately efficient, low cost light bulb for a moderately efficient, high cost, toxic replacement.



Of course, the coal burned to power that incandescent released more mercury.

And LEDs don't have mercury.

Conclusion: Denialists are all raging hypocrites concerning the mercury issue


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 10, 2014)

Wrong.

True denialists don't care if liberals eat mercury for breakfast or sip it in their lattes.  It's a non-issue; just a decision best left to the individual.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 10, 2014)

its done. thangod for the EPA


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 10, 2014)

mamooth said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not a right-winger, but it bothers me that a GOOD lightbulb now costs a large portion of an unemployment check.. Or that a solid lightning strike could take out a $100 worth of Govt approved lightbulbs.
> ...



Hey Jerkoff..   Last year I designed 2 industrial LED downlights for a client.  ALL of the hard design was in the lifetime of the power supplies for each bulb.  Customer called me in because the crap he was getting from China wasnt ready to pass UL.  Turns out it was virtually without any safety or noise reduction or hardening for transients..  Wasnt my specialty but the client is an old Silicon Valley bud of mine with 5 companies under his belt.

I took apart MANY bulb designs and looked at the amount of transient protection..  Very rare.

EVERY  LED bulb has a full AC TO DC 40 watt or better power supply in the base.  Wiith a lot of complexity and silicon control.  One good line transient and the cheesy bias circuits for the control is toast. 

SO ASSHOLE...  Its NOT a refrigerator.  Your fighting size and cost and heat. AND to beat the odds you have to design for 10 year life...STFU


PS Call me a right winger again and you get negged..   Ive spent 15 years in 3rd party advocacy and I can out liberal you on most every social / intl relations issue..  But you knew that didnt you?


----------



## westwall (Jan 10, 2014)

mamooth said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget highly toxic.  The CFL bulbs have fairly high levels of mercury in them so they qualify as toxic waste.  Nothing quite like exchanging a moderately efficient, low cost light bulb for a moderately efficient, high cost, toxic replacement.
> ...








I agree LED's are much better however their cost is out of reach for most poor and lower middle class.  As far as the coal fired power plants, where the hell have you been?  The majority of US plants have very efficient scrubbers that control that.  And, more to the point natural gas is supplanting coal everywhere because it is CHEAPER.

So no, I'm not a hypocrite.  I have LEDS throughout my home because I can afford them.
The hypocrite is you.  Coal plants were certainly a problem but now people like you have mandated that almost EVERY BUILDING in the USA is now a potential HAZMAT site.

GREAT JOB!


----------



## rightwinger (Jan 11, 2014)

westwall said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



LEDs are about $10-15 each. I started replacing them one per month in those lights that are on the most. Kitchen, living areas. I used CFLs in bedroom lamps and smaller areas. I still have some incandescents in closets where they ar only on for a few seconds


----------



## froggy (Jan 11, 2014)

now my heat bill goes up since I don't have the heat they produced.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 11, 2014)

westwall said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > westwall said:
> ...



what about the older coal-fired plants? Are they ALL retrofitted w/ up to par scrubbers? And do scrubbers have to be periodically cleaned? 

Heres a little article flacaltenn might be interested in concerning coal ash & his contention(?) he had made that its innocuous: Coal Ash Is More Radioactive than Nuclear Waste: Scientific American


----------



## skookerasbil (Jan 11, 2014)

Im laughing.........

Light bulbs.........since 2007, it is the only single legislative victory the AGW meatheads can point to. Meanwhile, nobody is giving a shit about AGW!!!










Light bulbs


----------



## skookerasbil (Jan 11, 2014)




----------



## westwall (Jan 11, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > mamooth said:
> ...








Virtually all in the US have been fitted with scrubbers for years, some of them decades.  Yes scrubbers need to be maintained just like the filters in your car.  The point about CFL's is now instead of having a single point source that is easy to monitor and regulate there are now MILLIONS of homes with little HAZMAT disasters happening.  

How many people do you think are going to take the time to dispose of a CFL properly?  So, thanks to a stupid mandate, every landfill in America is going to become a HAZMAT problem.

GOOD JOB!


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 11, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > mamooth said:
> ...



You never caught me saying that coal was innocuous.  Ive been hitting on the radioactivenaspects of coal ash waaaaaay before the hysterical Sci Am article.
ive got friends impacted by the E. Tenn ash spill. 



> As a general clarification, ounce for ounce, coal ash released from a power plant delivers more radiation than nuclear waste shielded via water or dry cask storage.



Thats the small print at the VERY END  of the Sci Am article.  Since CONTAINED nuclear waste generates only background levels, concentrated coal is only 10 times background.  It was the VOLUME  of fly ash that USED to come from a coal stack that made it more significant than the direct emissions of a nuclear plant...

You need to quote us more carefully bud...


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 11, 2014)

Liberals have HATED coal since the first time, as children, they emptied their little Christmas stockings.


----------



## mamooth (Jan 11, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Call me a right winger again and you get negged.



How about if I just call you overly sensitive little flower? A saying about the high ambient temperature in cooking facilities comes to mind.



> I've spent 15 years in 3rd party advocacy and I can out liberal you on most every social / intl relations issue. But you knew that didnt you?



If you don't want to come across as a righty, you might want to occasionally say a bad word about a conservative, instead of entirely reserving your venom for liberals. You're responsible for the way you come across, not me.


----------



## skookerasbil (Jan 11, 2014)

mamooth said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Call me a right winger again and you get negged.
> ...


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 11, 2014)

flacaltenn,
Did the issues with CFL result in LED R&D or was LED going to be the next thing anyway?


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jan 11, 2014)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Banning shit. The MO and most important thing to modern day LOLberals. You fucks just love a good banning, dont you? Authoritarian booklickers - do they realize what they are?



Better light bulbs than citizens civil liberties, such as the right to privacy, to marry, or to vote, as most conservatives seek to do.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 11, 2014)

This was a long time coming.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 11, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> flacaltenn,
> Did the issues with CFL result in LED R&D or was LED going to be the next thing anyway?



Everything was waiting on cost and performance for the LEDs themselves to improve.  They were already accepted in large industrial lighting where cost is less of an issue than lifetime.

Currently the LED chips themselves are about $1 each in large qty.  About 6 or 8 in a consumer bulb..  If light per watt goes up 20% ,,  you can put one less in each bulb.

All this would have happened anyway..  Without heavy handed regulation and people would not have had the bad initial experience with CFLs to ruin perceptions.


----------



## mamooth (Jan 12, 2014)

It would have happened anyways 5 years later. Thanks to those poliices, it's now. The free market moves much faster when it gets shoved.

So, the environmentalists saved everyone a bunch of cash. You'd think people would show some gratitude. I'm guessing they're just too enraged at seeing yet another environmentalist success go down in the annals of history.


----------



## Indofred (Jan 12, 2014)

I dropped into a seven eleven yesterday.
In Indonesia, they're using LED strip lights.
How about in America?


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 12, 2014)

good point.


----------



## westwall (Jan 12, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> flacaltenn,
> Did the issues with CFL result in LED R&D or was LED going to be the next thing anyway?







LED was going to be the next big thing anyway.  CFL is a technological dead end.


----------



## westwall (Jan 12, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> This was a long time coming.







What?   Making every landfill a toxic dump?  That was your goal?


----------



## hunarcy (Jan 12, 2014)

westwall said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > This was a long time coming.
> ...



Landfills?  Break one and your living room is a toxic dump!


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 12, 2014)

I'm a devout believer in LED lighting.  I put a set in a difficult location over ten years ago and they're still doing just fine.  Projected life had been only seven years but they go on and on.  Cost over $18,000 to install (included new fixtures, modifications to control system) of which about $13,000 was flying in specialized labor, their wages, accommodations and meals.  Prior to that re-lamping was alternate years at a cost of $12,000 each time.  Power cost was reduced by over 80% so payback on electric bills came in less than five years.  BUT the location needs those $12,000 maintenance visits only at five year intervals and then only for inspection.

My biggest concern was premature failure from possible lightning strikes but these are not cheap "homeowner" fixtures/lamps (they're called "light engines") and have tremendous surge protection built in.  The concern was unwarranted!


----------



## ScienceRocks (Jan 12, 2014)

We should ban the chemical that causes cancer within these light bulbs.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 12, 2014)

Matthew said:


> We should ban the chemical that causes cancer within these light bulbs.



I wouldn't worry too much about the cancers within the light bulbs but it's fair to be concerned about people who might sweep up the broken ones.  Mostly what they breath from the dust but when they get into the blood through cuts from the broken glass it can get real ugly real fast.  And not always just cancer!


----------



## Indofred (Jan 12, 2014)

Sometime in the next few years, I'll build another house.
That will all be low voltage LED lighting, probably using solar and/or wind power with battery storage and mains as emergency back up.
All the gear is commercially available and cheap; all I have to do is wire it up - easy peasy.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 12, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Sometime in the next few years, I'll build another house.
> That will all be low voltage LED lighting, probably using solar and/or wind power with battery storage and mains as emergency back up.
> All the gear is commercially available and cheap; all I have to do is wire it up - easy peasy.



A good plan if you're not over about 40 and have good reason to believe you'll stay in the house for most of the rest of your life.

I once built a "hundred year house" - spent a lot on high grade materials and energy saving.  Then lived in it for four years and sold it for market value.  The value was up from what it would have cost if built conventionally but a fraction of what I actually put into it.

As to land, from that experience I learned (and have saved others tons of money with the advice) that you never buy anything you don't intend to use in six months or less 'cause beyond that something in life is gonna change.  Change in some way you could never have guessed.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 12, 2014)

Matthew said:


> We should ban the chemical that causes cancer within these light bulbs.



true. We need to strengthen the EPA


----------



## HelenaHandbag (Jan 12, 2014)

mamooth said:


> It would have happened anyways 5 years later. Thanks to those poliices, it's now. The free market moves much faster when it gets shoved.


The word "free" excludes the act of being shoved around.



mamooth said:


> So, the environmentalists saved everyone a bunch of cash. You'd think people would show some gratitude. I'm guessing they're just too enraged at seeing yet another environmentalist success go down in the annals of history.


When I meet the SNAP moocher who thanks me in the grocery checkout line, then maybe we can talk.

In the meantime, take you arrogant moral preening and stuff it where the sun don't shine.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 12, 2014)

mamooth said:


> It would have happened anyways 5 years later. Thanks to those poliices, it's now. The free market moves much faster when it gets shoved.
> 
> So, the environmentalists saved everyone a bunch of cash. You'd think people would show some gratitude. I'm guessing they're just too enraged at seeing yet another environmentalist success go down in the annals of history.



Obviously you folks are big shovers...   You want THANKS? For killing jobs and forcing a market in FAILED Cfls?   You havent even finished and youre declaring victorry.. By unnaturally accelerating the market --- you fools have created virtual monopolies on key pieces of this technology.  The shakeout was more violent than it should have been and competition couldnt get its pants on...  But HEY youre leftists..  You dont NEED to understand business and tech development..  youre just a bunch of pushers.....


----------



## Vandalshandle (Jan 12, 2014)

Somehow, I think that we, as a nation, will survive this crisis, and live to see another day....


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 12, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> I'm a devout believer in LED lighting.  I put a set in a difficult location over ten years ago and they're still doing just fine.  Projected life had been only seven years but they go on and on.  Cost over $18,000 to install (included new fixtures, modifications to control system) of which about $13,000 was flying in specialized labor, their wages, accommodations and meals.  Prior to that re-lamping was alternate years at a cost of $12,000 each time.  Power cost was reduced by over 80% so payback on electric bills came in less than five years.  BUT the location needs those $12,000 maintenance visits only at five year intervals and then only for inspection.
> 
> My biggest concern was premature failure from possible lightning strikes but these are not cheap "homeowner" fixtures/lamps (they're called "light engines") and have tremendous surge protection built in.  The concern was unwarranted!



Im sure youre aware that ""old LEDS never die. They just fade away.  And the human eye isnt a good photometer.  So end of life is described as 70% brightness  where the eye might startnseeing a diff.  My guess is in consumer apps people will have no idea when to replace. Itll just get progressively slowly dimmer...

Poorly made led bulbs will lose the power supplies first.  The really cheap ones in far less then 10 years..


----------



## Indeependent (Jan 12, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > It would have happened anyways 5 years later. Thanks to those poliices, it's now. The free market moves much faster when it gets shoved.
> ...



Is there a story you can share concerning this?
Might serve as a good lesson for some of us willing to pay attention.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 12, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > mamooth said:
> ...



I watched several large LED developers drop out because pricesmplummeted too fast.  Leaving the best tech in very few hands..  wouldnt be too exciting to describe the details.  I also saw jobs and manufacturing go IMMEDIATELY to China even when there were plans to run automated manufacturing here in the states..  Didnt have the TIME to do it the US the better way.. Would miss the initial market......

So everyone pucker up to kiss that leftist ass for PUSHING this as a crisis.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 12, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Im sure youre aware that ""old LEDS never die. They just fade away.  And the human eye isnt a good photometer.  So end of life is described as 70% brightness  where the eye might startnseeing a diff.  My guess is in consumer apps people will have no idea when to replace. Itll just get progressively slowly dimmer...
> 
> Poorly made led bulbs will lose the power supplies first.  The really cheap ones in far less then 10 years..



Exactly so!

Fortunately a different user also installed LED markers on a site 1/2 mile closer to the reference viewing point some 3 years after my installation..  At the moment the further illumination (the markers are only about 5-degrees apart) is equal to or brighter than the closer and newer source.  At some point the older ones will dim before the newer ones and that'll mark the time to replace.  Replace NOT the "light engines" - rather the entire fixtures because the latest versions are 1/2 the size and use 1/2 the already miserly power consumption of the originals.  

http://www.specialtytowerlighting.com/pdfs/LED 864 LED SPECS.pdf

Note Wattage = 70 Watts vs. 1,240 Watts for a similar incandescent figure.


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Sometime in the next few years, I'll build another house.
> ...



The investment is not a lot more than with standard lighting, so it hardly matters ..... except the electricity bill will drop like a stone as far as lighting goes.
12v gear is simple, easily available and very easy to wire up; the only cost is if I install solar panels, wind is cheap.

New TVs will be LED projectors, the new ones are light, portable, easily visible in only a slightly dimmed room and the picture is clear. 
OK, they aren't up to the latest flat panel quality but who gives a shit when it's for the kid to watch cartoons or my wife to watch NCIS? They're easily good enough for that, produce a large screen and run on sod all power.
The first one runs at just 15 lumens but will produce a 40 inch screen in a dim room. My kid loves it in her play room so I think I'll install it as a fixture when we move to the new house.

I have two projectors at the moment, both bought for work, but I'll be replacing one soon so I'll use the old 200 lumen one in our bedroom.
Basically, I'll have a cinema in there at low cost in equipment and energy.


----------



## Politico (Jan 13, 2014)

Nothing wrong with LED lights as long as you adjust for the lumen difference. And the LED tvs make everything else look like crap.


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

The new LED projectors are pretty smart as well. You should have a look at them.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 13, 2014)

The President delivered on this. The savings will be astronomical.


----------



## IanC (Jan 13, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



Were you around a coupla years ago when we were discussing filament bulbs enclosed in carbon fiber grids to block the escape of LW radiation? Interesting idea but it died on the vine when many countries started outlawing 'heat balls'.


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Jan 13, 2014)

Leftists absolutely adore a good banning of items. They definitely know what is best for everyone and everything. Their central planning is unmatched when it comes to destroying economies, technology, markets and civil liberties.

Unmatched.


----------



## IanC (Jan 13, 2014)

TakeAStepBack said:


> Leftists absolutely adore a good banning of items. They definitely know what is best for everyone and everything. Their central planning is unmatched when it comes to destroying economies, technology, markets and civil liberties.
> 
> Unmatched.



Absolutely. They don't understand the law of unintended consequences.

Also, it isn't the Big Lie that is hard to deal with. It is all the small lies that follow so that the big lie makes sense.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 13, 2014)

Interesting that in response to my earlier post concerning savings I have personally experienced using LED illumination I got this response from one of our own.  Or at least from one of his sock-puppets:

_"You look like king george. Go suck on a cock!"_

I have no idea whether King George might or might not have found cost savings from substituting LED lamps in place of difficult-to-reach (therefore expensive to replace) applications.  I mean, given that there were NO light bulbs of any sort during his day.


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

I find it very odd, those who claim the political right are the ones who refuse the capitalist ideal of keeping costs to a minimum.
They complain of high costs to buy the units but don't think of ways to buy at a better price.

Very low quality right wingers.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 13, 2014)

Indofred said:


> I find it very odd, those who claim the political right are the ones who refuse the capitalist ideal of keeping costs to a minimum.
> They complain of high costs to buy the units but don't think of ways to buy at a better price.
> 
> Very low quality right wingers.



For about some it's about government controlling every aspect of daily life.  Telling what you can eat - or if that fails, taxing their fantasy-du-jour foodstuff beyond reach.  Telling you have to buy stuff you don't want.  

For others it's about value.  CFLs might save electricity but you have to turn (most of) them on about a half hour before you want to see anything.  Then when they burn out (at about 25% of their "rated" life for many) you're mandated to take them to a haz-mat disposal site because they're full of stuff that can kill.

For others, no point in buying the cheaper ones - they still cost several times that of an incandescent and burn out before any payback.  The really good ones are priced out of reach.  So where's the value?  It comes with elimination of costs that are not immediately apparent.  Good deal to pay 10X the cost of an incandescent when the cost of getting to where it is to replace a lamp is 100X the cost of the purchase.  That's the real saving; the reduced power consumption is just gravy.

LEDs will become popular when ways are found to make them last without making them prohibitively expensive.  That WILL happen but not by government mandate.  It'll happen through competition.  Competition that will be lessened when people are forced to buy them without regard to how they'll last or how much they cost.


----------



## TakeAStepBack (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm sure the idea of society determining which consumer items get the ax is also a foreign concept to you too. LOLberals hate the idea that people might make good decisions without being forced by Leftist do-gooders.


----------



## RKMBrown (Jan 13, 2014)

So I bought these 120watt equivalent spot lights and they take what seems like 5min to warm up.  Before they warm up the light output is "minimal" at best.  If someone slips and falls due to the low light output of these bulbs when you first turn them on can I sue the federal government for damages?


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 13, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> So I bought these 120watt equivalent spot lights and they take what seems like 5min to warm up.  Before they warm up the light output is "minimal" at best.  If someone slips and falls due to the low light output of these bulbs when you first turn them on can I sue the federal government for damages?



No, but the person falling definitely can sue you.


----------



## RKMBrown (Jan 13, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > So I bought these 120watt equivalent spot lights and they take what seems like 5min to warm up.  Before they warm up the light output is "minimal" at best.  If someone slips and falls due to the low light output of these bulbs when you first turn them on can I sue the federal government for damages?
> ...



That's what I figured.  The democrat congress, most of which are ambulance chasing lawyers, are looking for ways to collect more money.


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> For about some it's about government controlling every aspect of daily life.
> 
> CFLs might save electricity
> 
> LEDs will become popular when ways are found to make them last without making them prohibitively expensive. .



You shouldn't need to care about the law regarding 100 year old bulb technology, they make no sense anyway.
Extremely expensive to run and most of the light is outside the visible spectrum.
Pointless mpw alternatives are available.

CFLs are old hat, an interim solution, almost at an end of their useful life.

LEDs are not expensive, you're being ripped off.
I'd have to check the price here as I haven't bought one for a while but there are now as many on the shelves as all the others types put together.

You're acting like a typical socialist; you want it sorting out but you're waiting on a capitalist to come and spoon feed you.

Luckily for you, I'm willing to help you put the food on the spoon - can you get it to your mouth?

Led Bulb-Led Bulb Manufacturers, Suppliers and Exporters on Alibaba.comLED Bulb Lights

Remember - The quoted costs are usually FOB but this will give you an idea of what you should be paying in the shops and, if you're a real capitalist, get some money in your pockets.

Shocked?
So do something positive instead of moaning like a bitch who's customer has just fucked off without paying.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 13, 2014)

I knew we could count on you to pimp for a Chicom website!


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> I knew we could count on you to pimp for a Chicom website!



A websites used by big business to make a lot of money. How else do suppliers and buyers get together?
Sorry, I didn't realise I was trying to help socialists.

Sing along - The peoples' flag is deepest red...............................


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 13, 2014)

"socialists"?

The Chinese are communists....but you knew that......


----------



## RKMBrown (Jan 13, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> "socialists"?
> 
> The Chinese are communists....but you knew that......



Uhmmm communists are socialists... but you knew that....


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 13, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > "socialists"?
> ...



Extreme Socialists.

Communists are said to feel about being called mere socialists as Marxists feel when someone calls them mere Democrats.


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> I knew we could count on you to pimp for a Chicom website!



By the way, is idiocy a hobby or do you do it for a living?

You see anything to do with China and assume some silly little slanty eyed chink is behind it, probably ripping people off in some poorly designed scam.

Alibaba Group

Frankly, you're stupid.
This is big business and, in posting it, I'm alerting you to how much you're been screwed on LED bulb prices and how to do something about it.

Sadly, you're too fucking stuck in a socialist, "I need someone to wipe my arse for me" mindset to justify the trees' time in producing the oxygen you use up.
Seriously, a 5 year old girl decides she doesn't want to eat her veggie, but will when we explain how it helps her.
A kid is a fucking lot brighter than you and your daft 100 year old light bulbs.
You prefer racism to making or saving money - what a fucking idiot.

Jesus H fucking Christ on a pair of bastard lollipop sticks; there's no wonder you're been ripped off - You're mugs, ripe for it.


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> "socialists"?
> 
> The Chinese are communists....but you knew that......



I was referring to you, pity you're too fucking stupid to realise you're acting like a socialist, but a racist version.
A pseudo-right winger.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 13, 2014)

Indofred said:


> or do you do it for a living?
> 
> You see anything to do with China and assume some silly little _slanty eyed chink_ is behind it......




Surely my outfit gives a clue to my hobby as "court jester".

But your little rant above removes any doubt as to whether or not you might be a RACIST.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 13, 2014)

so you start stockpiling yet?


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 13, 2014)

Start?

No.

Finished.

When it was first disclosed that shortages would be the inevitable result and prices had not yet risen.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 13, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > or do you do it for a living?
> ...



how do you know he wasn't using hyperbole to make his point but you already knew that didn't you? Your chance to  deflect & run away


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > or do you do it for a living?
> ...



Your stupidity is beyond limits.
Take a long walk off a short pier. 

Americans are being, according to prices quoted in this thread, well ripped off on LED bulb prices.
I attempt to help by showing you the real price range and how to buy and make cash but you just rant on about it being a Chinese site.
That's why racism is stupidity. You're willing to ignore everything because someone told you the Chinese are evil expansionist communists, even when a white American Harvard graduate is effectively running that branch of multi million dollar, very capitalist, company.

What a twit.

People commonly do silly things, that's understandable and can be forgiven; gross fucking idiocy is less easy to excuse.


----------



## mamooth (Jan 13, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Obviously you folks are big shovers...   You want THANKS? For killing jobs and forcing a market in FAILED Cfls?



Given that people were flocking to buy them for years before the ban, you look kind of crazy for calling such a raging free market success a failure. 

There are so many sufferers of light bulb derangement syndrome on parade here. Like I said, they've gone hysterical after the environmentalists scored yet another very public success.

It's sort of a libertarian thing in general. They base their market predictions on their near-religious beliefs, instead of on facts and data. Hence the real world always smacks them down, hence they have to retreat into their fantasy worlds.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 13, 2014)

Indofred said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...




Cute but nothing there to refute your flaming racism.  Nice try, though.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 13, 2014)

Indofred said:


> I find it very odd, those who claim the political right are the ones who refuse the capitalist ideal of keeping costs to a minimum.
> They complain of high costs to buy the units but don't think of ways to buy at a better price.
> 
> Very low quality right wingers.



The mandates and deadlines cost us jobs and technology advantages.  The cost savings being so obvious,  why the need to outlaw a bulb?  Dictating the timeline for technology changes is very costly.  And the idea of closing coal plants before you have a plan could be deadly..  Which is why all those progressive europeans have bullied themselves into a corner where more coal IMMEDIATELY is the only way to keep people from dying..  if theres an unintended consequence,  a leftist with power to dictate will find it..  And then they expect you to kiss their ass..

Like when folks see their winter heating bills GO UP by 5  or 8% without those 100% efficient incandescent bulbs in their sockets....


----------



## HelenaHandbag (Jan 13, 2014)

Indofred said:


> I find it very odd, those who claim the political right are the ones who refuse the capitalist ideal of keeping costs to a minimum.
> They complain of high costs to buy the units but don't think of ways to buy at a better price.


Odd, how you can claim to speak for all conservatives and capitalists, to the point that you can determine by fiat what their unifying ideal is.



Indofred said:


> Very low quality right wingers.


Very low rent Indofred.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 13, 2014)

mamooth said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously you folks are big shovers...   You want THANKS? For killing jobs and forcing a market in FAILED Cfls?
> ...



^ that


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 13, 2014)

> Light bulb factory closes; End of era for U.S. means more jobs overseas
> 
> WINCHESTER, VA. - The last major GE factory making ordinary incandescent light bulbs in the United States is closing this month, marking a small, sad exit for a product and company that can trace their roots to Thomas Alva Edison's innovations in the 1870s.
> 
> ...



That was the last GE plant to close.  3 others went before it..  Along with their entire supply chain of material providers, The concept that we had the OPPORTUNITY to keep all that here is EXACTLY my point about missing out on creating 21st century manufacturing for these things in the states..  Guys like me were working on automated assemblynand testing for US production.  My client was DEDICATED to making them HERE.  But Dot Com and his heroes couldnt wait, didnt even REALIZE they were short circuiting all that with their crisis timelines....  Kiss MY ass.   And thank us for trying.. 

Wasnt just the top of the food chain,  it was the ENTIRE supply chain.  I talked to machinists who were gonna automate the heat sink production here in the USA. Domestic companies that were building new PCB  lines in Col. And Indiana to build the special metal clad boards that the hot leds sit on..  All my contacts ditched those plans and tossed it to China.. So next time Dotty starts ranting about those profit hound greedy capitalists shipping jobs overseas  --- kick him in the ass for me.

Instead I get to stay up late and solve problems in China..  Pretty soon, they wont need US tech or knowhow..  Then I can retire early and let DotCom pay for my health insurance...


----------



## tinydancer (Jan 13, 2014)

mamooth said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously you folks are big shovers...   You want THANKS? For killing jobs and forcing a market in FAILED Cfls?
> ...



What could possible go wrong with a mercury filled bulb that says on the package if this breaks in your house run outside?


----------



## HelenaHandbag (Jan 13, 2014)

mamooth said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously you folks are big shovers...   You want THANKS? For killing jobs and forcing a market in FAILED Cfls?
> ...


If people were flocking to buy CFLs, then there would really have been no need to ban incandescents. Market demand would have take care of that.

But they really weren't flocking to them. You just made that part up so the rest of your smear of people who distrust loathsome central planner bullies like you would work itself out.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 13, 2014)

I guess there ARE a lot of light bulb activists here.


----------



## HelenaHandbag (Jan 13, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> I guess there ARE a lot of light bulb activists here.



No more so than there are horse and buggy activists here.

But I am also good with letting Amish people run around in their horse-drawn carriages, rather that forcing them to buy Priuses and forcibly installing flat screen televisions in their homes, under the arrogant presumption that I could best determine what was in their  interests more so than they could.


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> The mandates and deadlines cost us jobs and technology advantages.
> 
> The cost savings being so obvious,  why the need to outlaw a bulb?
> 
> ...



No, high wages cost you jobs as it's cheaper to produce in China and ship them to the states.
You can't invest in the technology because you're way too late; China beat you to it.

This thread explains why government needs to get rid of the bulb. You have far too many idiots.

Winter heating bills? Moronic argument.
Imagine a space heater using 1,500 w, or running 150, old style 100w bulbs.
It may get a little bright when you warm up your room.

Sunglasses, anyone?


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

HelenaHandbag said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



CFLs are already way out of date.
Why the fixation on old technology when trying to defend old technology?

Bloody hell; I've already linked to the FOB price of the LED units, where to buy them and the exporter will arrange shipping for the inexperienced.

Go do something about it.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 13, 2014)

I see the pimping for a Chinese vendor continues.

I guess that's the new patriotism!


----------



## HelenaHandbag (Jan 13, 2014)

Indofred said:


> HelenaHandbag said:
> 
> 
> > mamooth said:
> ...


Supposing all that is true, why can't you sell your product to me, using selling points that relate to my values, rather than have it forced upon me based upon what you  say my values should be? 

Why do you liberals have such sucky sales skills?


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 13, 2014)

Indofred said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > The mandates and deadlines cost us jobs and technology advantages.
> ...



Now thats a hysterically funny post..  Not only is your math off by a factor of 10, you have no clue about what it would take to bring manufacturing back to the US.  And as a result, when cheap labor actually dies very soon in China due to the ultimate benefits of automation,  folks like you will be claiming you had all the answers.

When youre done remdiating the math deficiency you picked up in Indo --- please do try to mock me again.....


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 13, 2014)

Indofred said:


> HelenaHandbag said:
> 
> 
> > mamooth said:
> ...



We fixated on an """old tech like CFLs, because if it wasnt for the mandate and the hasty scchedule,  LED tech would have made them irrelevant BEFORE  we invested all that time and money and stuck consumers with a sub par solution.  An experience that poisoned public experience with the concept of efficient lighting and actually poisoned them as well.


----------



## Indofred (Jan 13, 2014)

HelenaHandbag said:


> Supposing all that is true, why can't you sell your product to me, using selling points that relate to my values, rather than have it forced upon me based upon what you  say my values should be?
> 
> Why do you liberals have such sucky sales skills?



I have no clue why Americans are so stuck in the mud on this issue.
You'd think the most powerful nation of earth would be way ahead of other countries on this but you are, as you were with mobile phones, way down the field.

The prices are high in the states because the importers keep them high.
In a country where capitalism claims to be king, you'd think someone would have set up shop by now and beat these guys at their own game.


----------



## HelenaHandbag (Jan 14, 2014)

Indofred said:


> HelenaHandbag said:
> 
> 
> > Supposing all that is true, why can't you sell your product to me, using selling points that relate to my values, rather than have it forced upon me based upon what you  say my values should be?
> ...


And I have no idea why your sales skill suck.

You'd think that people who have a product as great as you claim it to be would have a hell of a time keeping the shelves stocked. Yet, it has to be rammed down our throats by force of law.

Or maybe your product isn't really that great and you're too lazy or cowardly to go hustle people face-to-face.


----------



## Politico (Jan 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> I guess there ARE a lot of light bulb activists here.



Not very bright ones pun intended. Otherwise they'd know halogens are incandescent. Thus still available.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 14, 2014)

So IndoFreddy --- a 1500 Watt space heater is FIFTEEN (15) 100 Watt bulbs. Not 100.. And lights are on in a more constant duty cycle so that the resultiing energy is larger than a space heater that cycles on and off to a temperature set point. (so maybe 8 or 10 bulbs will do)

Funny how a simple observation like the 100% efficiency of those nasty bulbs in wintertime gets completely drowned by the propaganda eh? And the winter heating bills WILL GO UP.. 

In the mid-West, the rush to LED traffic lights resulted in the "oh crap" discovery that the OLD bulbs were assisting in keeping the snow and ice from obscuring the signal. And after that discovery, heaters had to be added to keep the public safe.. 

It was NOT COST -- but TIME that forced American business to drop plans to manufacture light bulbs here in the states. Sure an automated facility might not have exactly the same payroll as an older factory, but NEW jobs, and jobs at all skill levels would STILL have been available.. 

What else do you want to be wrong about today??


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 14, 2014)

Indofred said:


> HelenaHandbag said:
> 
> 
> > Supposing all that is true, why can't you sell your product to me, using selling points that relate to my values, rather than have it forced upon me based upon what you  say my values should be?
> ...



Labor is a tiny fraction of the recurring cost of producing LED bulbs. I could give you EXACT figures for a 60W LED bulb. The margins are STILL SLIM, because the VOLUMES are still building. And it's VOLUME that determines your margin. The market wont allow prices and volume to become disconnected. So you CANT charge more and simultaneously build volume. Therefore you HAVE to lower margins --- Beat the shit out of your supply chain on costs --- and automate the HELL out of it.. The Chinese know this. They are buying MILLIONS of robotic assemblers because they dont want the problem of housing and feeding displaced disgruntled workers in company dorms. 

We SHOULD HAVE used this event to DEMONSTRATE how 21st century factories can BEAT cheap labor.. But DotCom was in too much of a rush to plug in his electric vehicle and suck up all those saved Watts...


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 14, 2014)

suck it up bulb activists. Obama & the EPA have won this battle. Time to move on.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Jan 14, 2014)

mamooth said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously you folks are big shovers...   You want THANKS? For killing jobs and forcing a market in FAILED Cfls?
> ...



True.

This light bulb non issue is evident of that.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 14, 2014)

a libertarian would demand the right to have a nuclear reactor on their property in extremis


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> suck it up bulb activists. Obama & the EPA have won this battle. Time to move on.



There it is folks. Behold the Naked Leftist.. It's about WINNING. Not about logic or reason or science or good management. But POWER and WINNING is what makes a leftist not a Liberal. It what makes them dangerous. 

Dont often get a good justification for using the term leftist. But here it is. *Power and Winning*.  Thanks Dotty....


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 14, 2014)

...said the activist. Move on sport. We can't afford to keep all those wasteful incandescent bulbs buring in this great nation.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> ...said the activist. Move on sport. We can't afford to keep all those wasteful incandescent bulbs buring in this great nation.



Just told you -- they were only wasteful about 4 months of year in hot climates. 

NOW -- you can Bust the grid with your plug-in battery wagons?  Mandating that as well are you?  Better waste more tax money QUICKLY --- before the Fuel Cell vehicles exposes "plugging in" for the ridiculous solution that it is...


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 14, 2014)

you bulb activists really are tenacious


----------



## HelenaHandbag (Jan 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> a libertarian would demand the right to have a nuclear reactor on their property in extremis


Nice bail of straw, sport.


----------



## HelenaHandbag (Jan 14, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > ...said the activist. Move on sport. We can't afford to keep all those wasteful incandescent bulbs buring in this great nation.
> ...



I &#9829; thermal runaway.


----------



## HenryBHough (Jan 14, 2014)

Friend of mine recently bought a Chevy Volt.

Sarcastic SOB calls it his "coal powered wagon".

Of course he's right........but then he's also one who carries around a small salt shaker - in case he runs into someone wounded.


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 14, 2014)

you activists are funny


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 14, 2014)

HelenaHandbag said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > a libertarian would demand the right to have a nuclear reactor on their property in extremis
> ...



Actually -- it's one of those totally disconnected Dotty things.. But he's RIGHT.. If my neighbors and I would like to install one of those newfangled small scale buried reactors to power our Hillbilly Hollywood compounds, I WOULD demand the right to do that. 

Just a tiny 0.5MWatt buried reactor would do.. Don't need the "assault style" reactor. We can sell the rest back to Tenn... 

What's really gonna piss him off --- is when we pay for it  --- permits and inspections and all with the profits we make off the NuScale stock when this company goes public and the income stream from the excess power..


----------



## Kosh (Jan 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> you activists are funny



Looking in the mirror again?


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 14, 2014)

You people had your chance to contest the rules. Go to any hearings to make your concerns heard?


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> You people had your chance to contest the rules. Go to any hearings to make your concerns heard?



You folks had a chance to understand the technologies and the issues and you did not. You also had a chance to BUILD manufacturing in America and provide jobs.. But winning was more important than allowing good things to happen.. 

WE DID contact our reps.. But you guys "won"..


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 14, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > You people had your chance to contest the rules. Go to any hearings to make your concerns heard?
> ...



logic won. Go talk to the job creators. Repubs re-branded them.


----------



## westwall (Jan 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> suck it up bulb activists. Obama & the EPA have won this battle. Time to move on.








And all of our descendants, who have to deal with *your* toxic waste dumps.....lose.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jan 14, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Lay off my FaceBook pics jerk-off....


----------



## Dot Com (Jan 14, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



thats from MY profile.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 1, 2014)




----------



## rightwinger (Feb 1, 2014)

What is an incandescent bulb?


----------



## Indofred (Feb 1, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> What is an incandescent bulb?



It's 100+ year old technology. 
People that use them also listen to the news in Morse code.


----------



## Indofred (Feb 1, 2014)

I still don't get the 25 bucks for an LED.
Way out.


----------



## Indofred (Feb 1, 2014)

I dollar is about Rp12,000
XE: (USD/IDR) US Dollar to Indonesian Rupiah Rate
















The most expensive is less than $6, the cheapest, $1.40

So now you know for sure, you're being ripped off.

America is supposed to be a nation of capitalists so, if that's true, do something about it instead of moaning.


----------



## Indofred (Feb 1, 2014)

As a note, I bought one of the really cheap ones to test.
The light is easily enough to light a room but isn't as good as the higher rated units.
However, it's perfect when you're watching TV.


----------



## Trajan (Feb 1, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> better start stock-piling bulb heads.
> 
> The Incandescent Light Bulb Is Now Illegal -- Here's What You Need to Know - iVillage



I already have, I have 2 huge Rubbermaid bins full of them, phosphorus energized dish detergent too,  so when the next schlock of idiocy comes sliding out of the numbskulls who make policy I'll be ready


----------



## Trajan (Feb 1, 2014)

Indofred said:


> I still don't get the 25 bucks for an LED.
> Way out.



the light from the led sux, period,  the imbecility of the cfl was proven at a Berkeley lab. Their life span is BS, capitalized, BS.


----------



## Indofred (Feb 1, 2014)

Trajan said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > I still don't get the 25 bucks for an LED.
> ...



How many LED units have you tried?

I had to downgrade the 9 w to 6 w because they were too bright.
The 3 watt is great for smaller rooms or when you're watching TV.
We use 3 watt far more than the higher rated units.
Our living room has fittings for three bulbs but we only ever use two. The centre one is a 6w, the one above the sofa, 3.
We only use the six watt if we really need a lot of light.

The room is 7 x 12 yards.

I've a feeling you're talking out of your arse; listening to rubbish from other people and spouting it out as if you actually know what you're talking about.


----------



## flacaltenn (Feb 1, 2014)

Indofred said:


> I dollar is about Rp12,000
> XE: (USD/IDR) US Dollar to Indonesian Rupiah Rate
> 
> 
> ...



Well Sunniman, you got the currency part right,  but like most consumers, you havent adapted to these new fangled things..  Should I explain this in Morse Code?  

Youre showing a 60W equivalent (label 10W) and a 25Watt equivalent (3 watt label). Of course theres a diff in price, because the larger one needs a bigger power supply annd has 3 times the number of LEDs. For incandescents, manufacturing cost was largely the same for any wattage.  Thats no longer true.  Glad to see youre as confused as everyone else.  Lots of pissed off people are blowing $$ on bulbs at the wrong wattage now.

Not surprised that they are cheaper over there.  So are most things.. If we werent in such a damn hurry to dictate these things, theyd be cheaper here,  and we would be the ones screwing the asians for profit..

BTW Choose the BRAND NAME.  Its too expensive to risk crappy design just tosave 12000 RP.  Thank me later..


----------



## flacaltenn (Feb 1, 2014)

BTW..  Public service message.. You now buy by Lumens, not Watts..  Lumens is the brigntness.  The marketing suits are playing games with wattages to get better lifetime cost comparisons...
Before you go shopping look up equivent Lumens for the old bulbs you are replacing.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 1, 2014)

Indofred said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > What is an incandescent bulb?
> ...



 you guys crack me up


----------



## Indofred (Feb 2, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Well Sunniman, you got the currency part right,  but like most consumers, you havent adapted to these new fangled things..  Should I explain this in Morse Code?
> 
> BTW Choose the BRAND NAME.  Its too expensive to risk crappy design just to save 12000 RP.  Thank me later..



I now have three of the very cheap ones.
At that price, they're worth a try.
One is in use and has been for a couple of weeks.
That lights up the whole room with a steady, clean white light so we rarely bother with the larger one and we've stopped using the third fitting all together as they is no further point in having a bulb in there.

I've been using LED for some while now and have no 100 year old tech bulbs anywhere except the headlamp of my motorcycle and that will be replaced with an LED when it blows.
As with all other old fashioned lamps, the headlamp is juice hungry, so changing it will save me cash as the fuel can be used to make the bike go forwards, not producing a load of heat in the headlamp.
Back in England, I was a DJ.
All my lights were converted to LED about 9 years ago. I changed the lot back then because they were just as efficient, but had no cool down time and lasted a lot longer.
I didn't change a single lamp in three years.
Ask DJs how often they have to change bulbs in the old fashioned lights...it's a lot more than once in three years.

So, as I suggested before.
How many posters have actually tried using LED units and how many are just spouting total crap without even trying one?


----------



## Politico (Feb 2, 2014)

Indofred said:


> I still don't get the 25 bucks for an LED.
> Way out.



I don't get why you'd let yourself get ripped off so badly.


----------



## Indofred (Feb 2, 2014)

Politico said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > I still don't get the 25 bucks for an LED.
> ...



I don't.
My last three were $1.25 each.

One thing is clear from this thread (apart from the fact there are so many idiots in America that can't cope with change), the prices in America are bloody stupid.
I've already posted a link to where you can buy these things and import them.
Sadly, America seems to be full of moaners, not capitalists.


----------



## Politico (Feb 2, 2014)

Stop using Indonesia as a benchmark. None of the bulbs here are that cheap. It's got nothing yo do with refusing change.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 2, 2014)

Banning bulbs is pure idiocy.................The Gov't telling you what you can buy instead of letting the market place decide on it's own...........anybody with a lick of sense can determine what to buy on their own.........Not to regulate it or ban it...........because it's good for you......................................

While your at this ban you always only consider what happens in the house hold ONLY.............

I'm an electrician, and we are now and have been implementing the change in VERY LARGE INDUSTRIAL ENVIRONMENTS.......................Going to TOTAL LED lights in an Industrial Environment costs Millions of dollars especially when you have to purchase Class 1 Division 2 Explosion proof fixtures.......The lights we have been installing cost a $1,000 a piece.........Yes that's right $1,000 per light...........We aren't replacing the few in a house at that cost, but THOUSANDS OF THEM................So when you go to the pump, or see your utility rates go up just remember that some GREAT IDEAS TO SAVE THE PLANET COST A HELL OF A LOT OF MONEY..................

We are currently not installing more due to the cost of the first round of changes that already have been put in service.........This years budget on the same has been cut, but we expect another round of change outs this year as well...........It does give us job security, and the LED's put out a lot of light.  The operators are loving the light produced by the LED's..........But it must be done over time people.........As the costs are very high. Millions spent were I work for only a fraction of the total lights on sight.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 2, 2014)

Champ® VMV Series LED Luminaire

One of the major players in the change out.............Would cost a little less per light if the bases were the same as the old lights..............You have to buy the base as well................and pole lights aka stantion lights we have to add a reducing fitting from 1 1/2inch conduit to 1 1/4 inch conduit as the new ones don't come in 1 1/4inch.


----------



## Indofred (Feb 2, 2014)

Politico said:


> Stop using Indonesia as a benchmark. None of the bulbs here are that cheap. It's got nothing yo do with refusing change.



You have no clue.
Pretty much all of them come from China.
That means, you can import them and retail them far cheaper than the price you're paying at the moment.
A real capitalist would see the opportunity and make a killing before the big boys had time to pull their socks up.
Even if you retailed at half the current price, you'd make a bomb on the job.


----------



## Politico (Feb 2, 2014)

Pretty much? All of them come from China. Who has no clue again?


----------



## Two Thumbs (Feb 2, 2014)

Only liberals celebrate the loss of freedom.



How did the group of people that claim they descend from the FF, that fought against government tyranny, become the people that cheer government tyranny?


----------



## skookerasbil (Feb 2, 2014)

Well.....it would be just like one of the most profound mental cases on the whole board to post up a thread like this.......spiking the football over light bulbs. It like doing an animated end zone dance for a touchdown but your team is still losing 56-7!!! Dollar to a thousand stale donuts that DOT COM is a social oddball.

Meanwhile, the fact of the matter is, it is the ONLY thing the AGW nutters can hang their hat on over the last 6 or 7 years as there has been ZERO significant climate legislation because nobody gives a fuck.


But hey.........they managed to get light bulbs banned.


----------



## skookerasbil (Feb 2, 2014)

almost forgot.........


----------



## Indofred (Feb 2, 2014)

Politico said:


> Pretty much? All of them come from China. Who has no clue again?



You

There are manufacturers all over the world, including Indonesia and the U.S.
There are more in China; a lot more.

Final Count is In: There Are 108 LED Manufacturers: Majority in Greater China | LED Market Research Blog

I believe I've mentioned before; I research my position so well before I enter a thread, I know all your questions before you even think about asking them.

I'm far too clever for you to even try to argue with me.


----------



## BorisTheAnimal (Feb 2, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> If you didn't stock up when the impending ban was first discussed.....then don't cry.  Just suck it up, chalk it to your own stupidity.  Remember, the tree-huggers next target is toilet paper.




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrWcEGDXOUg]Demolition Man - Out of Toilet Paper - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Indofred (Feb 2, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> If you didn't stock up when the impending ban was first discussed.....then don't cry.  Just suck it up, chalk it to your own stupidity.  Remember, the tree-huggers next target is toilet paper.



Toilet paper is dirty so should be banned.
Islam requires cleaning by water so we use a spray. I know some idiot will tell me all about the left hand thing but that's because they're too stupid to know the reality.

Water comes with enough force to do captain Kirk's job and remove the Klingons.

Ban toilet paper.


----------



## Trajan (Feb 2, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



its the internet, anyone can be talking out of their arse, unfortunately for you, we had a discussion on this a while back, I explained_ what we did _at the lab and what we found..... thx for the ad hom though,  always nice  to see the usual fallback from the set of busy bodies who are more concerned about being busy bodies than the actual results and what people want,  not what they are made to swallow, and the concomitant upset when the prols don't blindly  go along


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 2, 2014)

I know the President  is right about this because I live in a highly corporatized area 


> http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...ht-bulb-standards/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
> &#8220;I know light bulbs may not seem sexy,&#8217;&#8217; Mr. Obama said during a brief appearance at the White House. &#8220;But this simple action holds enormous promise, because* 7 percent of all the energy consumed in America is used to light our homes and our businesses.&#8217;&#8217;*



its like throwing $$$ down a rat hole to keep all the lights burning in these ginormous office parks 24/7 and we have to create more nuke waste to do it. Having more efficient bulbs will cut down on that waste.


----------



## Abraham3 (Feb 2, 2014)

Trajan said:


> Barack Obama -Inaugural Address Jan 2009; "As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. . . . Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake."
> 
> Barack Obama- Friday June 2013; "I think it's important to recognize that you can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. We're going to have to make some choices as a society."



So you count 100% privacy and zero inconvenience as part of America's ideals?  Makes me wonder where you rank sidewalks and sliced bread.


----------



## flacaltenn (Feb 2, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > Stop using Indonesia as a benchmark. None of the bulbs here are that cheap. It's got nothing yo do with refusing change.
> ...



If you knew qnything about capitalism and world trade, youd know you cant do that.  Philips for instance would not allow a distributor to undercut all its other distributors in the states. There is a different cost of living for EVERYTHING between here and Indonesia.  So trying to import at Indo prices and sell at US prices is a fools errand.  Your cost of sales, distribution, and advertising would eat the difference. You COULD find a new and shoddy bulb manufacturer that MIGHT give you a US exclusive, but your product better be as good as the name brands.

If this worked, folks would be passing thru Asian brands of every product that retailed for less in places like Indo.  Does Home Depot want to give YOU shelf space for a $4 unknown bulb, when the major sellers are backing their product and giving H Depot 30% margin?

These bulbs are expensive because each one contains a full AC/DC power supply, transient protect, huge heatsinks, and 2 to 6 LEDS at about 80 cents each.


----------



## skookerasbil (Feb 2, 2014)

PS....not to mention, when these new light bulbs fall and break, they become instantly toxic. Best to hold your breath instantly or guess what??? You have mercury poisoning.......which of course the AGW nutters don't care about because their priority is always to push the agenda. You get toxic levels of mercury from these bulbs?? FUCK YOU!!!!


Even if the fucking bulbs don't break, they emit radiation >>>

Study says energy-efficient light bulbs may emit harmful radiation | Human Events


The k00ks don't care..........FUCK YOU!!!! Deal with the radiation!!!


The green assholes are fucking the planet and they don't give a rats ass.


----------



## eagle1462010 (Feb 2, 2014)

skookerasbil said:


> PS....not to mention, when these new light bulbs fall and break, they become instantly toxic. Best to hold your breath instantly or guess what??? You have mercury poisoning.......which of course the AGW nutters don't care about because their priority is always to push the agenda. You get toxic levels of mercury from these bulbs?? FUCK YOU!!!!
> 
> 
> Even if the fucking bulbs don't break, they emit radiation >>>
> ...



In the Navy Fluorescent bulbs were considered a Hazmat Item.........Because of the mercury and phosphorous..................Yet they still preached that we all should switch to them...............When I called them on this fact, they'd just change the subject and say we'll recycle them to solve that problem.................After I asked the effects of those bulbs and their mercury to the land fills................

In regards to the fixtures I've been installing in the Industrial Areas.............They put out a lot of light, but at a great cost.  A cost that is passed on to the consumers...............

The worst part of this whole debate is they want to ban an item that has been around a long time...............Push the idea of alternatives, but allow CHOICE of what to use to the people...............They force their ideals on everyone and praise themselves for doing so...................

And then have the nerve to say they are about Freedom in this country............Hardly.......


----------



## Trajan (Feb 2, 2014)

skookerasbil said:


> PS....not to mention, when these new light bulbs fall and break, they become instantly toxic. Best to hold your breath instantly or guess what??? You have mercury poisoning.......which of course the AGW nutters don't care about because their priority is always to push the agenda. You get toxic levels of mercury from these bulbs?? FUCK YOU!!!!
> 
> 
> Even if the fucking bulbs don't break, they emit radiation >>>
> ...



the toxicity via a broken  cfl is minimal, its all about threshold limit values and  permissible exposure limits. if you broke 20 or 30,  then got on your hands and knees and huffed all of the vapor, you'd get sick. 

the issue now is disposal, they require special handling, like some other electronics, but separately,  being brought to a recycling center, you just cannot recycle them via any of the bins we have been provided.  

Where they go wrong is thinking that they can treat and expect people to react like robots they have programmed. To locate, then get in their car with a burnt out cfl or the broken shards etc. ( after ventilation of the area) and drive to a place that accepts them.....see, thats not the way it works, I can tell you as someone how has and does study this, they will never wind up with more than 30% of the folks doing so IF that.


----------



## HenryBHough (Feb 2, 2014)

In  most cities the trash pickup crews have been told not to accept cans or bins with those toxic tubes in 'em.

So, if you want 'em hauled away put them in an opaque trash bag down at the bottom of the can and drop a couple of big rocks on 'em to change the shape.  They disappear like friggin' magic.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 2, 2014)

you are brilliant   Lemme guess, you vote Repub 

BTW- you live in Taxachuttsettes where there are plenty of collection sites asswipe.

CFLs near boston - Recycling Centers - Earth911.com


----------



## HenryBHough (Feb 2, 2014)

Not only does it magic them away, it makes the cutest sound.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 2, 2014)

why do i get the feeling that you're not joking. you'd rather screw it up for everybody, including future generations, than man the hell up and do the right thing.  Let me guess, you vote repub?


----------



## HenryBHough (Feb 2, 2014)

Jeez and I thought all that repetition went away when the world shifted from scratchy phonograph records to CDs!


----------



## Ernie S. (Feb 4, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> you are brilliant   Lemme guess, you vote Repub
> 
> BTW- you live in Taxachuttsettes where there are plenty of collection sites asswipe.
> 
> CFLs near boston - Recycling Centers - Earth911.com



So he's supposed to hop in his car and drive 20 miles to toss a light bulb. WTF??? burn a gallon of gas to save a few cents worth of electricity? You ARE daft.


----------



## MikeK (Feb 5, 2014)

Indofred said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > Well Sunniman, you got the currency part right,  but like most consumers, you havent adapted to these new fangled things..  Should I explain this in Morse Code?
> ...


I've tried both types of the new bulbs and I can't stand them!  Their harsh brightness makes me nervous.  The extra cost of incandescent lighting is well worth it to me, so I'm glad to pay it.  

I like the relaxing softness of incandescent lighting.  I have dimmer switches all over my house, including lamps, wall switches, and sockets (16 in all).  Using dimmers extends the life of incandescent bulbs at least tenfold.  E.g., where I need 100w I use a 150w bulb and dim it to the desired level.  Where I need 60w, I use a dimmed 100.   I believe the cost of the dimmers is offset by the life of the bulbs.  I rarely replace a light bulb.  

When I moved here in 1996 I put a 25w bulb in a little lamp I use as a nightlight and dimmed it down to about 10w or less.  That bulb has been lit 24/7 ever since 1996 and I'm looking at it right now.  Same bulb, 24 hours a day -- eighteen years!  (The larger ones also last for years but not that long.)   

I now have a cardboard box full of incandescent bulbs in the garage.  I've been buying them a pack at a time at the A&P every week for more than a year.  150w, 100w, 60w, 40w, and some 25s.  I'm 77 years old, so I think I'll be incandescent for the rest of my life.


----------



## Politico (Feb 5, 2014)

Again incandescent bulbs are not banned. The whole argument is pointless.


----------



## RKMBrown (Feb 5, 2014)

Politico said:


> Again incandescent bulbs are not banned. The whole argument is pointless.



You are wrong.  Obama's EPA henchmen set the energy star requirement for home lighting to 1/4 the amount of energy used by incandescent light bulbs, thus effectively banning  incandescent light bulbs in any situation where Energy Star is mandated by federal, state, and local governments.


----------



## flacaltenn (Feb 5, 2014)

MikeK said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



There are plenty of psych studies on this. It's a primitive instinct for humans to relax around 
light sources that resemble warm fire light. And although the LED bulbs are moving in the right direction, CFLs never had the spectral red components to make them "warm". You can CHOOSE a "warm" LED bulb. Consumer education is needed, because not only has the power rating gotten more complicated with the price, *but now it does takes 3 engineers to change a bulb*..


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 6, 2014)

Thank you President Obama. Less enery consumed = less nuclear waste.


----------



## flacaltenn (Feb 6, 2014)

Yes thank ALL your politicians for putting this on a track too fast to keep jobs in America.. 
Bless all their Little Hearts.. And pass the joint.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 6, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Yes thank ALL your politicians for putting this on a track too fast to keep jobs in America..
> Bless all their Little Hearts.. And pass the joint.



ok


----------



## Trajan (Feb 6, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > Again incandescent bulbs are not banned. The whole argument is pointless.
> ...



they are also working their way into residential building code.


----------



## Flopper (Feb 6, 2014)

Trajan said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Politico said:
> ...


Of course they are.  For builders LED fixtures and bulbs can be a selling feature on new homes.  An LED with 60 what equivalent bulb has a life of 50,000 hours.  Compare this to a 60 watt incandescent with 1000 hour life.  A new home with 25 bulbs will save over $8,000 over the life of the average LED which is about 17 years.  Not only do you save $8,000 but you don't have to change light bulbs for 17 years.

For municipalities, LEDs mean less risk of fire and longer life for power generating plants.  For businesses, less maintenance costs in changing bulbs.

Within 5 years most new homes and commercial structures will feature LEDs or other energy efficient bulbs in their design.

LED light bulbs: Comparison charts - Eartheasy.com Solutions for Sustainable Living


----------



## whitehall (Feb 6, 2014)

What are we going to do when hazmat mercury bulbs start piling up in the dustbin?


----------



## Trajan (Feb 6, 2014)

whitehall said:


> What are we going to do when hazmat mercury bulbs start piling up in the dustbin?



use more resources to render them inert in their exhausted state.


----------



## Trajan (Feb 6, 2014)

Flopper said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



 thx for reviewing the thread before posting....


----------



## HenryBHough (Feb 6, 2014)

I can't argue against the future of illumination belonging to LEDs (until something even better comes along).  In hard-to-reach applications their tremendous extra cost (for good ones) is worth every penny.  In vehicles, same thing.  Especially those cute little electric go-carts that are the badge of "sensitive" liberals world-wide.  Use conventional lamps in them and their distance-between-charges would be measured in yards, not miles.

In the home the trick is to find good ones and weigh whether the power saving is worth the high initial cost.  Buy most of the cheap ones and you'll replace them often.  Some of the cheap ones are prone to heating and require special fixtures to avoid fire risk.

The key is to understand what you're buying and weigh the benefits versus the consequences.  Most people are either unable or unwilling to do that.


----------



## flacaltenn (Feb 6, 2014)

I'll bump this thread in a couple of years when it becomes clear that not EVERY LED bulb will have a long bright life.. This 50,000 hour crappola is dubious. From a guy who last year did some power supply design for an LED lighting project.. Hit a Sam's Club with a lightning bolt once and you'll probably be OK. Do that once a summer for a couple years and you're gonna lose $10,000 (or more) worth of bulbs. That and if you buy cheap -- the heat sinking will not be adequate to get 50,000 hours. Or if the bulbs go into recessed ceiling fixtures --- they are gonna die much sooner due to thermal stress on LEDs and power supply capacitors.. 

And the 50,000 hours comes from the L70 specification that says at 50,000 hours, the bulb SHOULD be under IDEAL thermal mgt. putting out 70% of what it did when it was new. In a home, no one is gonna notice. But in a supermarket, they will be MEASURING the light output periodically and will panic well before it hits 70% output. Big store retailers put a lot of emphasis into assuring correct color and floor brightness.


----------



## Flopper (Feb 6, 2014)

whitehall said:


> What are we going to do when hazmat mercury bulbs start piling up in the dustbin?


Probably the same thing we do with them now, drop them off at Home Depot or any of thousands of other drop offs which include local government.  Some recycle services already provide for pickup.  Undoubtedly as need increases, there will be more home pickup.  I have a small box for old batteries and CFLs that I drop off at Home Depot ever year or so.


----------



## RKMBrown (Feb 6, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> I'll bump this thread in a couple of years when it becomes clear that not EVERY LED bulb will have a long bright life.. This 50,000 hour crappola is dubious. From a guy who last year did some power supply design for an LED lighting project.. Hit a Sam's Club with a lightning bolt once and you'll probably be OK. Do that once a summer for a couple years and you're gonna lose $10,000 (or more) worth of bulbs. That and if you buy cheap -- the heat sinking will not be adequate to get 50,000 hours. Or if the bulbs go into recessed ceiling fixtures --- they are gonna die much sooner due to thermal stress on LEDs and power supply capacitors..
> 
> And the 50,000 hours comes from the L70 specification that says at 50,000 hours, the bulb SHOULD be under IDEAL thermal mgt. putting out 70% of what it did when it was new. In a home, no one is gonna notice. But in a supermarket, they will be MEASURING the light output periodically and will panic well before it hits 70% output. Big store retailers put a lot of emphasis into assuring correct color and floor brightness.



I've had absolutely no luck with led spots in track lighting. NONE.  Led string lights work well, but as you say the components of led lights don't seem to be able to keep working in real life conditions for as long as is necessary to gain benefit.  Waste of money IMO.  Reminds me of all the diet drink fads.. only to find out decades later that you can get fatter on diet than regular.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 6, 2014)

Flopper said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



good post but the bulbists will still try to undercut your logic.


----------



## Politico (Feb 7, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > Again incandescent bulbs are not banned. The whole argument is pointless.
> ...



Again no they are not.



Dot Com said:


> Thank you President Obama. Less enery consumed = less nuclear waste.



Yeah except he didn't have anything to do with it. Fail.


----------



## RKMBrown (Feb 7, 2014)

Politico said:


> RKMBrown said:
> 
> 
> > Politico said:
> ...



Lies.


----------



## skookerasbil (Feb 7, 2014)

I'll say again.......this is the single accomplishment the green AGW assholes can hang their hats on in the last 6 years: light bulb legislation!!!

And like all good far lefties, in the quest to safeguard the established narrative of global warming, they saddled the public with an incredibly dangerous source of light. Fucking genius as usual......but that is their motto: rote response if the religion is challenged is "FUCK YOU!!"


----------



## Indofred (Feb 7, 2014)

The right wing are all ranting on about this as if it's a communist plot.
In fact, the right should be happy as not wasting money is a capitalist ideal.


----------



## Jroc (Feb 7, 2014)

*How to Clean up Broken Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs*


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF_kayoYcAE]Broken CFL Cleanup Kit - YouTube[/ame]


How to Clean up Broken Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs: 12 Steps


----------



## Indofred (Feb 7, 2014)

Jroc said:


> *How to Clean up Broken Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs*
> 
> 
> Broken CFL Cleanup Kit - YouTube
> ...



You are so last decade.
We use LED now.


----------



## HenryBHough (Feb 7, 2014)

Wait 'til ya find out what's inside an LED lamp!


----------



## Indofred (Feb 7, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Wait 'til ya find out what's inside an LED lamp!



Is it worse than the high levels of lead in Incandescent bulbs?


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 7, 2014)

Indofred said:


> The right wing are all ranting on about this as if it's a communist plot.
> In fact, the right should be happy as not wasting money is a capitalist ideal.



^ that


----------



## Jroc (Feb 7, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Wait 'til ya find out what's inside an LED lamp!



Those leftist don't give a shit about poor people. Buy expensive light bulbs, pay more for your electricity, pay more for your groceries, pay more for your Gasoline. Leftist are bunch of hypocrites


----------



## HenryBHough (Feb 7, 2014)

Indofred said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > Wait 'til ya find out what's inside an LED lamp!
> ...



Inside is a circuit board with lots of tiny components made of such things as gallium-nitrate and a variety of other metals.  When the components are inserted into (or onto) the circuit board they're wave-soldered (yes, lead and tin).

Here's a link to a discussion with illustrations:

Philips L Prize Teardown, Philips L-Prize Bulb, LED Bulb Teardown, Philips LED taken apart | The EarthLED Store

Now this is a high quality lamp and cheaper ones will have fewer components but also be more cheaply made.  Note that cheap components generally contain more toxics than the higher grade ones used in the subject lamp.

At some point there'll be effective recycling but probably with a price tag.


----------



## Indofred (Feb 8, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > HenryBHough said:
> ...



I agree.
However, if you're concerned, dispose of your computer immediately and never buy another one.


----------



## Politico (Feb 8, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > RKMBrown said:
> ...



The Energy Independence and Security Act was signed into law in 2007 by your boy Georgie and his buddies. So yeah there's some lies being told.


----------



## Abraham3 (Feb 8, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > Again incandescent bulbs are not banned. The whole argument is pointless.
> ...



The law did have the effect you note, but it did so by requiring 25% greater efficiency, not by a 75% reduction in  the amount of energy that could be used.  You got that a bit turned around.


----------



## Indofred (Feb 8, 2014)

Politico said:


> The Energy Independence and Security Act was signed into law in 2007 by your boy Georgie and his buddies. So yeah there's some lies being told.



There goes another reason why the right wing are fucking idiots as far as this light bulb issue is concerned.
The right are generally the ones against banning old, wasteful bulbs but the same fools want the U.S. of A. to have nothing to do with Arabs.

Dudes, saving energy helps America become less dependent on oil rich states, including the Arabic countries you hate so much.

Now, be good chaps and put your brains in gear before posting.


----------



## RKMBrown (Feb 8, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> > The Energy Independence and Security Act was signed into law in 2007 by your boy Georgie and his buddies. So yeah there's some lies being told.
> ...



Hello? Anyone in there?  We are no longer an energy dependent state.  We are an energy exporter.  So no only is global warming a lie, the need to conserve is also a lie.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 8, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> I have been buying incandescent bulbs at ten cents a piece and will sell them in a year for ten dollars each......I will become a lightbulb millionaire
> 
> People will miss their old inefficient bulbs and will come crawling to me!
> 
> Ha......ha.....ha.....ha



You're drooling again, boy.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 8, 2014)

boedicca said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > I have been buying incandescent bulbs at ten cents a piece and will sell them in a year for ten dollars each......I will become a lightbulb millionaire
> ...



Do you keep them next to your horde of manual typewriters, rotary phones, Beta VCR's, and disco 8-tracks?


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 8, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> westwall said:
> 
> 
> > mamooth said:
> ...



Shop more carefully.  They're much less than that if you do.


----------



## Dot Com (Feb 8, 2014)

You're either w/ us or you're with the Bulbists. Make your choice.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 8, 2014)

Indofred said:


> I dropped into a seven eleven yesterday.
> In Indonesia, they're using LED strip lights.
> How about in America?



Some places have switched...I started seeing them (mostly as display cooler lights, initially) 6-7 years ago.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 8, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > I find it very odd, those who claim the political right are the ones who refuse the capitalist ideal of keeping costs to a minimum.
> ...



What a pile.  New cfl's are instant-on, full brightness in 10-15 seconds.  They last a long time...in ten years, I have replaced TWO.  Note that both were on 8-14 hours/day, 365 days a year.  One went ~8 years, the other nine.  I had been replacing regular (actually, long-life!) incandescents every 6-8 MONTHS.  Bonus: the CFL's made as much light with 1/3 the power (18W versus 60).  Their replacements are even better, making MORE light while using the same power.  These are all cheap CFL's, house brands from Wal-Mart, K-Mart, and Job Lot.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 8, 2014)

Trajan said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > I still don't get the 25 bucks for an LED.
> ...



In my experience, the CFL lifespans are, if anything, conservative.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 8, 2014)

Politico said:


> Stop using Indonesia as a benchmark. None of the bulbs here are that cheap. It's got nothing yo do with refusing change.



LED bulbs are available for about $5 each.  They're probably available even  cheaper if i really hunted online.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 8, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> In  most cities the trash pickup crews have been told not to accept cans or bins with those toxic tubes in 'em.
> 
> So, if you want 'em hauled away put them in an opaque trash bag down at the bottom of the can and drop a couple of big rocks on 'em to change the shape.  They disappear like friggin' magic.



Or bring them to Lowe's, Home Depot, or Target...they all take them for no charge.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 8, 2014)

Ernie S. said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > you are brilliant   Lemme guess, you vote Repub
> ...



There are at least three places within a mile and a half of his listed location. TRY AGAIN!


----------



## boedicca (Feb 8, 2014)

Jarlaxle said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...





Great - how environmentally friendly.  Drive around to find someone to take a pitiful light bulb off one's hands.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Feb 8, 2014)

If he lives where I think he does (I know the area well), he drives RIGHT PAST at least one place regularly.  If he takes the train, he walks past one place every time!  In fact...I recall the supermarket nearest him takes them!


----------



## RKMBrown (Feb 8, 2014)

Jarlaxle said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



I've got three different types of cfls the old fashioned tube ones (with supposed 9y life time), the previous generation thin spiral tube standard bulb ones (with supposed 9y life time) and new tech cfl 120w equivalent spot lights (with supposed 8k hrs life).

The old fashioned cfl tubes last the longest for me usually about 5y.  The spiral tube junk works but only last about 1 year for me. As to the new CFL spot lights... only had them for a few months but it's a real PITA having to wait 5min for them to warm up, they startup with about 10% and take at least 5min to get even close to 100%.


----------



## Flopper (Feb 8, 2014)

Indofred said:


> HenryBHough said:
> 
> 
> > Wait 'til ya find out what's inside an LED lamp!
> ...


Both LED's and incandescent bulbs have high levels of lead.  The big difference is you will use up to 50 incandescent bulbs for ever LED.


----------



## Flopper (Feb 8, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > HenryBHough said:
> ...


The CFL spots we have in our kitchen are really dim for the first 15 seconds.  After about 30 to 45 seconds they seem to be at full brightness.  I have had 6 of them in our kitchen for over 2 years which we use for about 8 hours a day and haven't had to replace any so I don't know how long they will last.


----------



## Flopper (Feb 8, 2014)

Jarlaxle said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


CFL life like other types of bulbs vary greatly, but are in the range 6,000 to 15,000 hours.  Life is effected by actually voltage at the bulb, manufacturing defects, mechanical shock, voltage spikes, ambient temperature, and frequency of cycling on and off.  A CFL may last only 3000 hours just as an incandescent bulb may last only 500 hours.


----------



## RKMBrown (Feb 8, 2014)

Flopper said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > Trajan said:
> ...



I typically get about three times the life out of CFL as I do incandescent but it's purely random.  As they get older the risk of extra "parts" failing due, as you say to voltage spikes and shocks goes up.  I would guess putting a line conditioner on my house would help more than switching to CFL.  But there's nothing I can do about mechanical shocks.  I have kids, and I have some stone miners that like to set off dynamite.  So really for me the cheapest lighting is the best as I can just replace em as they fail.  I'd much rather buy 60 incandescent 60w bulbs for 10bucks than one mercury laden cfl 120w bulb for 10 bucks.  The math just does not add up.


----------



## Indofred (Feb 8, 2014)

Hang on a moment.

What was wrong with good old gas lighting and why aren't the anti progress lot advocating a return?


----------



## Flopper (Feb 8, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



A Line conditioner to handle all your lighting can be pretty expensive and unless you have a lot of problems with spikes and surges it's probably not worthwhile.  One of the major reasons for premature failure is heat build up.  Although CFLs produce less heat than incandescent, heat buildup can reduce life drastically.  

Since incandescent bulbs were so cheap, I think most people gave little thought as to how long they lasted.  Since CFLs cost much more, we pay a lot more attention to their life.  When we had incandescent bulbs, I kept a full shelf of bulbs in our storage room.  When one burned out, I just replaced it and when our supply got low, I filled up the shelf with more bulbs.  They were a commodity like garbage bags and paper towels.  I never noticed whether I got 200, 500, or 1,000 hrs. out of a bulb.  However, with CFLs, I have a record of when I replace them.


----------



## Flopper (Feb 8, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Hang on a moment.
> 
> What was wrong with good old gas lighting and why aren't the anti progress lot advocating a return?


For the number of lumens produced gas lighting is expensive.  Most of the energy from gas is converted to heat not light.


----------



## Luddly Neddite (Feb 8, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Hang on a moment.
> 
> What was wrong with good old gas lighting and why aren't the anti progress lot advocating a return?



Oh hush!

I'm listing old burned out incandescents on ebay. If the nutters find out about gas lights, they won't buy my burned out bulbs!

Whatever you do, don't tell [MENTION=20321]rightwinger[/MENTION] cuz he'll undercut my prices for sure.


----------



## Indofred (Feb 8, 2014)

Flopper said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Hang on a moment.
> ...



Yes, old fashioned bulbs don't use gas to do this.
That's OK then.


----------



## Flopper (Feb 8, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...


The old fashion bulbs work like a toaster oven.  They run a lot of electricity through a wire producing a hell of a lot of heat and a small amount of light.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones (Feb 8, 2014)

Flopper said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Flopper said:
> ...



Much like conservative dogma.


----------



## Politico (Feb 9, 2014)

RKMBrown said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Politico said:
> ...



I wouldn't bother arfuing with him. He's not even from here. And he called me a rightwinger after I just pointed out what idiots they are.


----------



## Indofred (Jul 19, 2014)

HenryBHough said:


> I knew we could count on you to pimp for a Chicom website!



China's Alibaba reports media blackmail attempt to police | Reuters



> Alibaba's listing on the New York Stock Exchange could be one of the biggest initial public offerings ever. The company, founded by Jack Ma, is now looking at a September debut, a source told Reuters on Thursday.



On topic.
My house is now ALL LED light, and my electricity bill is tiny.
In the evening, if we're just relaxing, maybe watching TV or messing on the internet, we just use small USB computer type LED lights. They produce enough light to see by, say of we want to get to the fridge for a drink of iced water, but use almost no power.
It's also very comfortable on the eyes.
A simple casing makes them look nice, and the wiring is 'off the shelf' USB leads, fixed into the wall as with normal mains cables, but extremely safe and very easy to install.
Should a lamp go faulty, it's just plug in a new one, but none have yet.
The power supplies are standard USB chargers. 

Those who refuse to move on with technology, especially when that tech gives so much advantage, are really very silly.


----------



## MikeK (Jul 19, 2014)

rightwinger said:


> I have been buying incandescent bulbs at ten cents a piece and will sell them in a year for ten dollars each......I will become a lightbulb millionaire
> 
> People will miss their old inefficient bulbs and will come crawling to me!
> 
> Ha......ha.....ha.....ha


I have a big stash of 40w and 100w incandescents in my garage because I can't stand the effect of the new bulbs.  Also, I use dimmers on all my lamps and wall switches for two reasons:  One is the adjustable lighting level, the other is they greatly extend the life of an incandescent bulb.  

This is so because an incandescent bulb works by passing current across a filament of a specific diameter causing it to glow and ignite a gas contained in the bulb.  In time the heat generated by the current rating degrades the filament, which weakens, separates, the current stops flowing, and the bulb "burns out."  

A dimmer actually reduces the amount of current flowing across the filament, thereby extending its life.  E.g., dimming a 60w bulb to approximate the illumination level of a 40w bulb will extend the life of the bulb by a factor of eight or ten.  I base that estimate on how long my bulbs last.  In fact I replace bulbs so infrequently I'm sure my stash will last the remainder of my lifetime.  

Also, even though I have fifteen dimmer switches installed I'm sure the money I save by rarely replacing bulbs compensates the cost of the dimmers.  

If you like incandescents, and if you have a stash, the price of remaining stocks of dimmers will soon be coming down because they don't work with CFLs.  So I suggest you pick up some dimmers and extend the soft, pleasing effect of incandescent lighting far into your future.


----------



## Indofred (Jul 20, 2014)

I'm absolutely shocked you lot are still using CFLs.
In Indonesia, you can still buy the old style heater bulbs, but they're a side bit of the bulb shelves in the supermarket.
Next comes CFLs, but their shelf space is shrinking faster than a penis dipped in ice water.
LEDs are the norm here.


----------



## Jarlaxle (Jul 20, 2014)

I have CFL's and see no reason to replace them with LED's, which are still VERY expensive.


----------



## Indofred (Jul 20, 2014)

Jarlaxle said:


> I have CFL's and see no reason to replace them with LED's, which are still VERY expensive.



Earlier in the thread, I linked to a site where you can find suppliers, and import them into the states at far lower prices than were mentioned on this thread. They start at less than two dollars, rising for branded items. I have been using several of the really cheap ones for several months, none have failed as yet.
My post above, mentions and quotes another poster - follow the links back until you find it.
Alibaba is the site.
Capitalism is lovely - give it a blast.


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 20, 2014)

The OP is such an asshat its beyond hysterical.

In the past 3 years, Ive asked AGW climate crusader fascists in this forum this question.......


*HOW IS THE SCIENCE MATTERING??*


# of responses?  * ZERO*.


So I'll answer the question!! Banning of incandescent lightbulbs is the *ONLY* applicable answer.


So for all the bomb throwing from the AGW k00ks, since 2007, this is their one notable achievement that relates to the "consensus science".


Know what that's called?




*nOt wInNiNg*


----------



## Jarlaxle (Jul 20, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > I have CFL's and see no reason to replace them with LED's, which are still VERY expensive.
> ...



Reread what I posted.  I already have CFL's.  They work fine.  LED's are only marginally (if at all) more efficient.  Thus, there is no reason to replace my perfectly-good CFL's.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jul 20, 2014)

Jarlaxle said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > Jarlaxle said:
> ...



*LED's are only marginally (if at all) more efficient*

much more efficient 

but expensive to install 

just did a conversion for a hotel 

but it had lots of 24/7 lights running 

Compare: LED Lights vs CFL vs Incandescent Lighting Chart


----------



## mamooth (Jul 20, 2014)

MikeK said:


> Also, I use dimmers on all my lamps and wall switches for two reasons:  One is the adjustable lighting level, the other is they greatly extend the life of an incandescent bulb.



That lowers the efficiency a lot, causing an even greater fraction of the energy to make heat instead of light. So you save on bulbs, but lose money overall because you're spending so much more on electricity.


----------



## Flopper (Jul 20, 2014)

When governments began phasing out incandescent bulbs, it spurred a new era in lighting technology. Go back 10 or 15 years and look at the lighting industry.  There was little research and development other than marketing. It was a commodity industry producing the same inefficient bulbs that have been produced for 20 years with little change.  The incandescent lighting industry was in a race to the bottom to produce the cheapest and lowest quality bulbs.  Investing in the light bulb industry was about as attractive as investing buggy whips. 

The LED lighting industry is in it's infancy.  Lighting giants such GE are pouring money into research and development. LED technology is a huge step forward compared to the old incandescent bulbs, offering improved brightness, lower energy consumption and longer life spans.


----------



## Flopper (Jul 20, 2014)

mamooth said:


> MikeK said:
> 
> 
> > Also, I use dimmers on all my lamps and wall switches for two reasons:  One is the adjustable lighting level, the other is they greatly extend the life of an incandescent bulb.
> ...


I think the basic sales appeal of dimmers was they provide a convenient way of lower the light level in a room, not saving money.


----------



## Indofred (Jul 20, 2014)

skookerasbil said:


> The OP is such an asshat its beyond hysterical.
> 
> In the past 3 years, Ive asked AGW climate crusader fascists in this forum this question.......
> 
> ...



It's saving everyone a pile of cash - well, intelligent people anyway.
Dumbos are still wasting theirs.


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 20, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



stop "making stuff up" to suit your argument  [MENTION=39447]Jarlaxle[/MENTION]


----------



## Jarlaxle (Jul 20, 2014)

One more time for the slow kid: a 60W replacement LED bulb uses 10 watts.  The 60W replacement CFL's I have use 13 watts.  *The benefit of switching to LED lighting simply is not worth the cost at this time!*


----------



## Flopper (Jul 20, 2014)

Jarlaxle said:


> One more time for the slow kid: a 60W replacement LED bulb uses 10 watts.  The 60W replacement CFL's I have use 13 watts.  *The benefit of switching to LED lighting simply is not worth the cost at this time!*


One of big reasons people choose LEDs over CFL's is they last 5 times longer.  That means 1/5 the labor cost in changing bulbs,  which can be significant in businesses with large numbers of bulbs or bulbs that are in hard to reach places.

However, there are many other reasons.

They produce almost no heat reducing the risk of fires or accidental burns.
They contain no mercury which reduces disposal problems.
They are available in many colors making them more suitable for different applications and taste.
They use less energy than CFLS.
Unlike CFLs, LEDs can be powered with something as small as a watch battery.
They can't be manufactured in a number of different forms and shapes making them ideal for displays.
They are very small compared to other bulbs which means smaller fixtures and more applications.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jul 20, 2014)

Flopper said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> > One more time for the slow kid: a 60W replacement LED bulb uses 10 watts.  The 60W replacement CFL's I have use 13 watts.  *The benefit of switching to LED lighting simply is not worth the cost at this time!*
> ...



exactly


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jul 20, 2014)

Jarlaxle said:


> One more time for the slow kid: a 60W replacement LED bulb uses 10 watts.  The 60W replacement CFL's I have use 13 watts.  *The benefit of switching to LED lighting simply is not worth the cost at this time!*



i do not agree with your numbers 

however even a three watt saving per hundreds of bulbs 

lite 24/7 would be quite a savings over a course of a year 

and not considering the replacement ration 

of cfls to leds


----------



## HenryBHough (Jul 21, 2014)

Something mostly overlooked....

for hard-to replace locations LEDs are worth almost any price.  The cost of labour to change them is the best economic investment possible.


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 21, 2014)

How funny is this thread?

In the past 8 years, this is the one topic that the AGW climate crusading fascists can hang their hats on: light bulbs!!!


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jul 21, 2014)

skookerasbil said:


> How funny is this thread?
> 
> In the past 8 years, this is the one topic that the AGW climate crusading fascists can hang their hats on: light bulbs!!!



or can they 

--LOL


----------



## Indofred (Jul 21, 2014)

The thing that really amazes me, is the price of LED bulbs in the States, and how, for a nation of capitalists, no bugger does anything about it, even though I've linked to the manufacturers, so you can see how much you're being ripped off.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jul 21, 2014)

Indofred said:


> The thing that really amazes me, is the price of LED bulbs in the States, and how, for a nation of capitalists, no bugger does anything about it, even though I've linked to the manufacturers, so you can see how much you're being ripped off.



at the store they are expensive 

when buying in volume (thousands) it is cheaper 

and then there are variables


----------



## Indofred (Jul 21, 2014)

jon_berzerk said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > The thing that really amazes me, is the price of LED bulbs in the States, and how, for a nation of capitalists, no bugger does anything about it, even though I've linked to the manufacturers, so you can see how much you're being ripped off.
> ...



That store buys from a wholesaler.
The wholesaler buys from China.

Anyone could do the same, but undercut the rest, making a handsome short term profit.
The prices are all on Alibaba, all you have to do is look, and do something about it.


----------



## Moonglow (Jul 21, 2014)

Incandescent bulbs are still being sold in my area...


----------



## Indofred (Jul 21, 2014)

Moonglow said:


> Incandescent bulbs are still being sold in my area...



You can still get them in Indonesia, with no law I'm aware of to stop you.

Just that hardly any bugger buys them any more.
As I said before, still quite a lot of CFLs, but they're a poor second to LED.

Tech moves on quickly.
100 year old stuff lasted because tech was slow for a while, but it moves on exponentially, improving at an ever faster rate.
That explains why CFLs are old hat after only about 10 years.
I see new buildings with solar panels, powering storage units of some sort, able to power low voltage LED bulbs all night, probably at zero cost.
We are now seeing all LED motorcycles coming onto the market, even they see the value in not wasting energy, and not having to bother changing lamps.
Safety and fuel efficiency, at no cost to the users.
You'd have to be mad not to want it.

In years to come, people will look back at this debate and wonder how some posters managed to breath without instructions or assistance.


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jul 22, 2014)

Indofred said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



in our conversions we are not buying them and if needed the appliances 

from a store 

but thanks for the the info


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jul 22, 2014)

Moonglow said:


> Incandescent bulbs are still being sold in my area...



yes


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 22, 2014)

they're clearing out the warehouses no doubt.


----------



## Flopper (Jul 22, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Incandescent bulbs are still being sold in my area...
> ...


*"The horse is here to stay, but the automobile is only a novelty  a fad,"
President of the Michigan Savings Bank

 There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.
Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp

We will never make a 32 bit operating system.
Bill Gates

A rocket will never be able to leave the Earths atmosphere. 
 New York Times, 1936

Television wont last. Its a flash in the pan.
Mary Somerville, pioneer of radio educational broadcasts, 1948.*


----------



## Katzndogz (Jul 22, 2014)

Has there ever been a superior product being replaced by an inferior and dangerous product before?


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 22, 2014)

Indofred said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> > Indofred said:
> ...



No $3 Asian bulb is going in a socket in my home.. I checked Abi Dabba and MOST of them are NOT certified by reputable 3rd party testing. One lightning transient and you could be looking at replacement or fire hazard.  And shorter life.. 

I've designed power supplies for lighting. And you are installing a full AC to DC switching power supply in every socket.. NOT just a strand of glowing wire.. You NEED somebody to sue when the engineering  and quality control burns down your house..


----------



## MikeK (Jul 22, 2014)

Flopper said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> > MikeK said:
> ...


Dimming an incandescent bulb reduces the flow of current and greatly prolongs the life of the bulb.  I very rarely replace bulbs and while I would pay less for electricity if I used CFLs or LEDs I am willing to pay a bit more for the luxury of the soft, pleasing effect of dimmed incandescent lighting.  And based on what I've seen this effect is simply not available from the new bulbs.


----------



## Indofred (Jul 22, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> No $3 Asian bulb is going in a socket in my home.. I checked Abi Dabba and MOST of them are NOT certified by reputable 3rd party testing. One lightning transient and you could be looking at replacement or fire hazard.  And shorter life..
> 
> I've designed power supplies for lighting. And you are installing a full AC to DC switching power supply in every socket.. NOT just a strand of glowing wire.. You NEED somebody to sue when the engineering  and quality control burns down your house..



Except for the branded product, the stuff that's on American supermarket stalls at the moment.
As for your house wiring; if it can't take a fried circuit without tripping, I'd sue whoever installed it.
You make a rubbish argument.


----------



## Indofred (Jul 22, 2014)

MikeK said:


> Dimming an incandescent bulb reduces the flow of current and greatly prolongs the life of the bulb.  I very rarely replace bulbs and while I would pay less for electricity if I used CFLs or LEDs I am willing to pay a bit more for the luxury of the soft, pleasing effect of dimmed incandescent lighting.  And based on what I've seen this effect is simply not available from the new bulbs.



You haven't looked very hard.
The lower power, yellow effect LEDs do exactly that, but use hardly any power to get the desired light.

People are talking about green, I'm talking about low electricity bills.


----------



## rex34 (Jul 22, 2014)

Good riddance little glass heaters.


----------



## flacaltenn (Jul 22, 2014)

Indofred said:


> flacaltenn said:
> 
> 
> > No $3 Asian bulb is going in a socket in my home.. I checked Abi Dabba and MOST of them are NOT certified by reputable 3rd party testing. One lightning transient and you could be looking at replacement or fire hazard.  And shorter life..
> ...



No rubbish argument -- If its a BRANDED NAME with UL or 3rd party testing -- there is not much of price difference.. Might not be important in a lean-to with corrugated roofing, but no American is gonna risk 1500 sq ft or more to a Chinese designer with a 10th grade science certificate. 

It's not the house wiring that's gonna fry, it's the flammable circuits in the base that they didn't bother to design properly.. I've SEEN THIS.. MULTIPLE TIMES.. The amount of dangerous crap coming out of China factories UNBRANDED is legend...


----------



## Flopper (Jul 22, 2014)

MikeK said:


> Flopper said:
> 
> 
> > mamooth said:
> ...


Dimmers extend the life of an incandescent bulb because they decrease current flow through the bulb however they also reduce the light output.  So yes, you could extend the life of say a 100 watt incandescent bulb which will cost you about $1 or less if you can find one.  However, dimmers today run $10 to $20 or more.  So is it worth spending $10 or $20 and having less light in your room to extend the life a $1 light bulb.  It's not worth it to me.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 22, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> better start stock-piling bulb heads.



You Communists are such stupid fuckers.

Offer a better product, and people will buy it.

LED is a better product - but you shitferbrains thugs had to start banning a product that would naturally fall out of favor.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 22, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> BTW- this satire drawing is from 2011. I saved it because i knew the day was coming.



Oh bullshit - ThinkProgress or some other hate site put it up and released pheromones instructing you to spam it.


----------



## Old Rocks (Jul 22, 2014)

flacaltenn said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > flacaltenn said:
> ...



Fire hazard causes recall for Eco-Story LED lamps - LEDs

A US-based supplier has recalled around 42,000 LED lamps that can pose a fire hazard when used without a class II transformer.

Eco-Story, an LED lamp supplier based in Portland, Maine, has released a recall alert for LED lamps in cooperation with the US Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC).
The product-safety recall is due to a fire hazard and affects about 42,000 units. The recall was voluntarily conducted by the firm in cooperation with the CPSC.

When used without a Class II transformer, the LED lamps in question can overheat, posing a fire hazard. The CPSC said that the company has received two reports of overheated lamps. No injuries have been reported.
The recall involves 12-volt LED lamps with UL number E316865. The UL number is found on a label located at the base of each lamp.
Manufactured in China, the lamps have been sold to commercial locations, primarily restaurants, from December 2007 through August 2010, for between $19 and $45. The lamps were not sold directly to consumers.
The CPSC says that commercial locations should stop using this lamp immediately and contact Eco-Story for a free replacement lamp which does not require a Class II transformer. The company has contacted all known commercial locations that purchased this lamp

*Interesting. One type from one manufacturer, sold only to comercial locations, and Walleyes claims the whole industry is faulty. Kind of like using the Pinto to ban all cars smaller than an F-150 pickup.*


----------



## skookerasbil (Jul 22, 2014)

Don't forget.....drop a CFL? Run like hell and hold your breath. Breath at the wrong time after a CFL drop and you are maybe pissing blood by morning!! Awesome!!


----------



## Flopper (Jul 22, 2014)

skookerasbil said:


> Don't forget.....drop a CFL? Run like hell and hold your breath. Breath at the wrong time after a CFL drop and you are maybe pissing blood by morning!! Awesome!!


Nonsense.
CFLs pose no greater threat on breakage than the florescent tubes we've been using for over 60 years.  Actually, the new CFL have less mercury in them than the conventional tubes. The broken glass is usually considered a much greater hazard than the small amount of spilled mercury.

Fluorescent lamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jul 22, 2014)

Indofred said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> > Incandescent bulbs are still being sold in my area...
> ...



it is the receptacle that is changing new lamps and such will not have the familiar base 

to support the incandescent bulb


----------



## whitehall (Jul 22, 2014)

Where do old mercury bulbs go when it's illegal to throw them in the dustbin? As a matter of fact you almost need a haz-mat team if you break one. I have broken several incandescent  bulbs over my head during my lifetime and I shudder to think about breaking a mercury bulb over my head. What are they going to do when the landfill gets full of mercury bulbs , arrest people for dumping them illegally?


----------



## MikeK (Jul 22, 2014)

whitehall said:


> Where do old mercury bulbs go when it's illegal to throw them in the dustbin? As a matter of fact you almost need a haz-mat team if you break one. I have broken several incandescent  bulbs over my head during my lifetime and I shudder to think about breaking a mercury bulb over my head. What are they going to do when the landfill gets full of mercury bulbs , arrest people for dumping them illegally?


Why do you break bulbs over your head?  Am I missing something?


----------



## jon_berzerk (Jul 22, 2014)

whitehall said:


> Where do old mercury bulbs go when it's illegal to throw them in the dustbin? As a matter of fact you almost need a haz-mat team if you break one. I have broken several incandescent  bulbs over my head during my lifetime and I shudder to think about breaking a mercury bulb over my head. What are they going to do when the landfill gets full of mercury bulbs , arrest people for dumping them illegally?



actually they want them recycled


----------



## Flopper (Jul 22, 2014)

whitehall said:


> Where do old mercury bulbs go when it's illegal to throw them in the dustbin? As a matter of fact you almost need a haz-mat team if you break one. I have broken several incandescent  bulbs over my head during my lifetime and I shudder to think about breaking a mercury bulb over my head. What are they going to do when the landfill gets full of mercury bulbs , arrest people for dumping them illegally?


CFLs are handled the same as all florescent tubes.  They go to a local recycle station.  All Home Depots, Loews, Ace Hardware, and True Values have recycle bins for CFLs and other fluorescent tubes.  Most communities have lot's cfl recycle drop off points.  According to the recycle processors, 99.9% of all mercury from recycled CFLs are recovered and resold.  

CFLs put in your home recycle will be removed during the sorting process and routed to a mercury recover processor provided the tubes aren't broken.

Of course if you put your cfls in the garbage, they will end up in a solid waste dump.


----------



## Politico (Jul 23, 2014)

Which is what most people do.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 23, 2014)

boedicca said:


> So, DC gives a thumbs up to Big Gubmint Crony Corporations getting a low margin product banned so that consumers are forced to buy much more expensive, higher margin products.
> 
> Good to see him out himself as a Crony Stooge.



Well, you have to understand. Those EVIL incandescent bulbs were made in America - and we can't have that. The CFL's are made - 100% of them - in China and East Asia. democrats have a plan.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 23, 2014)

Flopper said:


> Nonsense.
> CFLs pose no greater threat on breakage than the florescent tubes we've been using for over 60 years.  Actually, the new CFL have less mercury in them than the conventional tubes. The broken glass is usually considered a much greater hazard than the small amount of spilled mercury.
> 
> Fluorescent lamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Ah lying, that's the leftist answer to all things.


----------



## Vandalshandle (Jul 23, 2014)

First they take our light bulbs. Tomorrow they will take away our flashlights. then, they will put is in FEMA camps. Then come the death panels.

AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 23, 2014)

Vandalshandle said:


> First they take our light bulbs. Tomorrow they will take away our flashlights. then, they will put is in FEMA camps. Then come the death panels.
> 
> AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!



Why do you mindless thugs stick your noses into issues you cannot understand?

When a better product is availible, people will buy it.

CFL is NOT a better product, never was. It's just padding the pockets of corrupt politicians who sold American workers down the river in favor of China.

LED IS a better product, and will supplant both CFL and incandescent naturally. Yeah I know, Nancy Pelosi gets no bribes from China for the market working in normal fashion.


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 23, 2014)

Its over you bulbheads  Our proud, African American, President has made it so


----------



## HenryBHough (Jul 23, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> Its over you bulbheads  Our proud, African American, President has made it so



Not bad!

Now trot around the world proclaiming the "manliness" of Our Apologist-in-Chief and maybe people will stop laughing at Him.  Hell, you might even be able to get a government grant to do that!


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 23, 2014)

you bulbheads are so thin-skinned.

You'll see the wisdom of 44's decision  when you bother to do some research into the matter.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 23, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> you bulbheads are so thin-skinned.
> 
> You'll see the wisdom of 44's decision  when you bother to do some research into the matter.



The mental retard outlaws buggy whips in 1950 - you call it wisdom..


----------



## Indofred (Jul 23, 2014)

This is quite amazing.
A simple discussion about light bulbs turns into stupidity, insults and right vs. left politics.

At the end of the day, it's all about saving cash.


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 23, 2014)

Indofred said:


> This is quite amazing.
> A simple discussion about light bulbs turns into stupidity, insults and right vs. left politics.
> 
> At the end of the day, it's all about saving cash.



For most people, it's simply about lighting a room.

Fluorescent light sucks, flickery and dull, anyone needing precision simply cannot use them. Color matching? Yeah, right. Detailed work on small parts? You have to be kidding.

Fluorescent has been around since the 1920's - there is a reason it was used only for prisons and office buildings. 

LED is more efficient than CFL, and offers better light than incandescent. But Obama is a fucking retard, and could not keep his stupid nose out of other peoples business.


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 23, 2014)

^ The bulbists  keep ninnyhammering


----------



## Uncensored2008 (Jul 23, 2014)

Dot Com said:


> ^ The bulbists  keep ninnyhammering



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Wit as dull as the inferior light's he's pushing..


----------



## Dot Com (Jul 23, 2014)

who you voting for in '16 to despoil the environment?


----------



## HenryBHough (Jul 24, 2014)

Those assholes who believe humans are capable of either destroying or saving the planet are just that.  Assholes.  Arrogant assholes who will go the same way as did the dinosaurs and for the very same reason.  Of course those Arrogant Assholes also believe the dinosaurs did themselves in by inventing the internal combustion engine.

What the hell.  At least they have SOMETHING to believe in now that Their New Messiah has been proven a pathological liar.


----------



## jc456 (Jul 24, 2014)

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin_Kennedy said:
> ...



This!!!!!! this is the one.  LOL!! right, no one was buying them. haahahhahaahahahaha.  So how do we get them bought.  Ban the one kicking its asse.  They could have just lowered the cost of the newbie.  But nah. rake the populas.  That's the liberal way.  Hah!!!!

What's even funnier is that the party of choice is actually the party of ban and mandate!!!! Ain't that a hoot?


----------

