# Teacher Sues After Being Fired For Refusing To Use Transgender Student’s ‘Preferred Pronoun



## Weatherman2020 (Oct 2, 2019)

Child cruelty sending your kid to public schools. 
Fired for not using Orwellian speech, welcome to the 21st Century. 

A Virginia high school teacher who was fired for refusing to use a transgender student’s preferred pronouns has filed a lawsuit against the school district.

Officials at West Point High School, about 40 miles east of Richmond, cited nondiscrimination and anti-harassment policies in December when it terminated French teacher Peter Vlaming over his refusal to call a female-to-male transgender student by his preferred pronoun.

But Vlaming fired back in a lawsuit filed on Monday, accusing the West Point School Board of violating his right to free speech. He said he was fired because he avoided using pronouns all together when referring to the student, who was transitioning to male at the time.

Using male pronouns, such as “him” and “he” when addressing the student would have violated his “conscience,” Vlaming said in the suit, citing religious beliefs.

He said school administrators eventually gave him an ultimatum: either use male pronouns or risk losing his job.

“Defendants made up an uncompromising interpretation of their policies to compel Mr. Vlaming to take sides in an ongoing public debate regarding gender dysphoria and use pronouns that express an objectively untrue ideological message,” the lawsuit says. “Mr. Vlaming’s conscience and religious practice prohibits him from intentionally lying, and he sincerely believes that referring to a female student as a male by using an objectively male pronoun is telling a lie.”

Teacher sues after being fired for refusing to use student's preferred pronouns


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 2, 2019)

He could have included in the lawsuit an argument that the educational facility was interfering with the proper use of English pronouns and damaging the educational process.


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## rightwinger (Oct 2, 2019)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Child cruelty sending your kid to public schools.
> Fired for not using Orwellian speech, welcome to the 21st Century.
> 
> A Virginia high school teacher who was fired for refusing to use a transgender student’s preferred pronouns has filed a lawsuit against the school district.
> ...



“He said school administrators eventually gave him an ultimatum: either use male pronouns or risk losing his job.”


All we need to know


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 2, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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It’s a female, shitforbrains. 
Next kid says she’s a cat you want teachers fired for not supplying a sandbox to crap in?


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## Lysistrata (Oct 2, 2019)

Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief???  The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.


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## alang1216 (Oct 2, 2019)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Vlaming fired back in a lawsuit filed on Monday, accusing the West Point School Board of violating his right to free speech. He said he was fired because he avoided using pronouns all together when referring to the student, who was transitioning to male at the time.


Free speech doesn't mean the option to use hate speech.  If he called a Black kid the N word he should be terminated.  If he refused to say anything to this trans kid, I'm not so sure what is proper.  I'd say just transfer either the kid or the teacher to another class.


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## Rambunctious (Oct 2, 2019)

I wouldn't last one hour in today's classroom....


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## martybegan (Oct 2, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief???  The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.



It's called reality. Trans people can only become impersonations of the sex they want to be, they cannot become the sex they want to be.


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## martybegan (Oct 2, 2019)

alang1216 said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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> > Vlaming fired back in a lawsuit filed on Monday, accusing the West Point School Board of violating his right to free speech. He said he was fired because he avoided using pronouns all together when referring to the student, who was transitioning to male at the time.
> ...



If that's your definition of hate speech, then i suggest never going outside again, you queefing little snowflake.

Is that "hate" speech as well?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 2, 2019)

Rambunctious said:


> I wouldn't last one hour in today's classroom....



Me neither.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 2, 2019)

alang1216 said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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> > Vlaming fired back in a lawsuit filed on Monday, accusing the West Point School Board of violating his right to free speech. He said he was fired because he avoided using pronouns all together when referring to the student, who was transitioning to male at the time.
> ...



Correct common pronouns are not hate speech.


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## Rambunctious (Oct 2, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Rambunctious said:
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I would have slapped the gender confusion right out of the kid...something its parents ought to have done.....


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## alang1216 (Oct 2, 2019)

martybegan said:


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So a white man using 'N*gger' is NOT hate speech?  What about '****', 'chink', 'wop', 'towel head', or any others?


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## martybegan (Oct 2, 2019)

alang1216 said:


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Its bad language. The intent is what makes it hate. 

Sorry, but calling a he a she or vice versa does not rise up to ethnic slurs, or at least one of them. 

The speech has only the power given to it by the listener. Call me a mick or a wop, or guinea, or cracker. see if I care.


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## alang1216 (Oct 2, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Correct common pronouns are not hate speech.


Who put you in charge of what is correct?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 2, 2019)

martybegan said:


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"Drunken Irish Mick" here.  Get me a T-Shirt.

What if I were to call a white guy a niqqer?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 2, 2019)

alang1216 said:


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The Oxford Dictionary of the English Language is an authoritative source for proper usage, for one.


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## alang1216 (Oct 2, 2019)

martybegan said:


> Its bad language. The intent is what makes it hate.
> 
> Sorry, but calling a he a she or vice versa does not rise up to ethnic slurs, or at least one of them.
> 
> The speech has only the power given to it by the listener. Call me a mick or a wop, or guinea, or cracker. see if I care.


I agree, it is the intent is what makes it hate.  

If I told my teacher my name is John but he insisted on calling me Jane or Moron.  Is that hate?  Don't we all get to be called by our given name?  Why are pronouns any different?


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## emilynghiem (Oct 2, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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^ All he/she/they/zhey need to know ^


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## martybegan (Oct 2, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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The proper term is wigger.


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## martybegan (Oct 2, 2019)

alang1216 said:


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if your name was legally actually john, it would be odd, and most people wouldn't do that.

What is happening here is you are asking people to deny reality and call a she a he. The guy tried to compromise by using neutral terms, but that isn't good enough for the Progressive Stasi.


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## emilynghiem (Oct 2, 2019)

alang1216 said:


> martybegan said:
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Dear alang1216
The debates seem to be whether to legally and scientifically
recognize gender based on genetics, or REQUIRE people
to recognize some internal/cultural identity that is arbitrarily decided.

It's closer to
* if a person has a religion by which they have a title like Captain.
And this person wants to REQUIRE another person to address
them as Captain which is part of their religious identity, culture, affiliation or PRACTICE.
* if a person has a NICKNAME such as Charlie instead of Charles,
or BUZZ instead of their legal name. And this person wants to require
another person to call them by their NICKNAME.

What are the school policies?
If the school requires teachers to use the LEGAL name,
and it's OPTIONAL to use nicknames, then that's up to the individual.

What are the rules in grammar and etiquette?
Last I checked, the rules that were taught on the books
recognized titles for Royalty (King/Queen, Prince/Princess, etc.)
Priests/Nuns/the Pope/Clergy of churches, and maybe Military and Government.

We just need to agree on the rules instead of leaving it
to confrontation and conflict to bring these up, or escalate to the point of lawsuits.

Are people suing if a teacher doesn't call a Buddhist monk by Reverend,
because that person doesn't recognize the Buddhist religion the same as Christians?


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## Lysistrata (Oct 2, 2019)

martybegan said:


> Lysistrata said:
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> > Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief???  The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.
> ...



So? What does this have to do with anybody's "conscience"? What else are these types going to think up and try to pass off as a "religious belief"? Don't lose sight of the fact that there is another person involved here: the student. The teacher is supposed to be the adult in the room.


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## emilynghiem (Oct 2, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


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Yes and to be mature and rational about this whole issue:
First, let's distinguish the DIFFERENCE between physical gender based on GENETICS that CANNOT CHANGE, vs. internal spiritual identity that is FAITH BASED and can change and doesn't have to be proven by science because it's someone's personal business.

Let's be mature and fair and distinguish between those two very different levels
and not try to pass one off as the other!

After we get that settled, then maybe we can talk about how to talk about each one.
AFTER we even agree what we're talking about here, DISTINGUISHING
the DIFFERENCE between physical gender where genetic science has traditionally
been used for the legal and govt definitions in order to be neutral and secular
vs.
the arbitrary faith based beliefs that people may have that are not proveable by
science nor any of govt's business to make mandatory for the public.

Agreeing to treat that as FAITH BASED would keep it personal choice out of govt policy.


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## alang1216 (Oct 2, 2019)

martybegan said:


> if your name was legally actually john, it would be odd, and most people wouldn't do that.
> 
> What is happening here is you are asking people to deny reality and call a she a he. The guy tried to compromise by using neutral terms, but that isn't good enough for the Progressive Stasi.


I'm asking no such thing.  I'm fine with using neutral terms.


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## emilynghiem (Oct 2, 2019)

martybegan said:


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^ Dear Lysistrata
By treating the issue of gender beliefs as FAITH BASED
this makes the student and teacher equal. Neither can be
required to push their beliefs on the other person through law, courts, govt etc.

So the proper solution would be to mediate and come up with
terms and conditions that both parties agree to.

Calling the person by their LEGAL name might help.
So the student should get that changed LEGALLY.
And in the meantime, maybe they could agree on which
nickname to use that doesn't violate the teacher's beliefs either.

The SCHOOL should hold meetings with parents, teachers,
students and staff, and decide on a policy for this and perhaps
for conflict resolution to prevent legal issues, actions or costs in the future.


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## alang1216 (Oct 2, 2019)

emilynghiem said:


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Seems like we should be able to live together:

Call people what they wish to be called
If that conflicts with your beliefs either don't talk to them or work out some mutually acceptable compromise.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 2, 2019)

martybegan said:


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I prefer being offensive.  It's the heart of comedy.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 2, 2019)

emilynghiem said:


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This post is incomprehensible.The most that I can get out of it is that you don't believe that gender dysphoria exists, that this conclusion is somehow connected with your religious faith, and that anything that anyone decides has to do with his or her religion is not only unassailable but also must be accepted by everyone around them even if it hurts a second person, and the person who was hurt should just slink away.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 2, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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Yup he was like George Washington,  he couldn't lie.



.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 2, 2019)

emilynghiem said:


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The student should be kept out of it since gender dysphoria is not a "faith-based belief." It is a condition that has nothing to do with a "belief."


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## rightwinger (Oct 2, 2019)

Weatherman2020 said:


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He was instructed on how to refer to the student
He refused to do so
He was fired for it

Too freaking bad


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## Unkotare (Oct 2, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief???  The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.




That’s the part you think is “nutty”?


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## bodecea (Oct 2, 2019)

Rambunctious said:


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Ah...physical violence....the linchpin of today's CRC  (con-servative republican christian).


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## martybegan (Oct 4, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


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This has to do with people like you thinking using the State to force people how to act over a matter of fucking pronouns. 

The student is a victim here. Sorry, but treating supposed gender dysphoria at such an early age it tantamount to child abuse. 

If the kid thinks they are a puppy should we let them shit in the playground?


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## martybegan (Oct 4, 2019)

alang1216 said:


> martybegan said:
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> > if your name was legally actually john, it would be odd, and most people wouldn't do that.
> ...



Fine, they are asking it. whatever it is its idiotic.


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## rightwinger (Oct 4, 2019)

martybegan said:


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Your boss tells you how you are to address a student
You intentionally do otherwise
You get fired for it

That is the way things work


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## martybegan (Oct 4, 2019)

alang1216 said:


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I won't call a person what they desire to be called if they try to force me to. 

At that point I will call them what I want on general principle.


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## martybegan (Oct 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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The boss tells you to eat pork in the cafeteria and you are jewish.

You refuse.

You are fired.

Yes, and exaggeration, but its an example of your line of logic. 

In the case of a government job, employees have more rights than in the private sector.


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## rightwinger (Oct 4, 2019)

martybegan said:


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What you eat for lunch has no bearing on how you perform your job

How you treat your student does


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## martybegan (Oct 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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He used a neutral term, didn't use the actual pronoun of the student in question.

Not good enough for the SJW Gestapo.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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So you lie to it?

.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Not a sheep, free speech?

.


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## rightwinger (Oct 4, 2019)

martybegan said:


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He violated a direct order on how that student should be addressed 

The student is having a hard enough time adjusting to his new gender 
Teachers are supposed to make it easier


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## martybegan (Oct 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Sorry, the child doesn't have a "new gender".

At that age they should not be subjected to something they may grow out of.

All this shit should wait until they are 18 at least.


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## alang1216 (Oct 4, 2019)

martybegan said:


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Then be prepared to pay the consequences.


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## martybegan (Oct 4, 2019)

alang1216 said:


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Wow, a threat. Better yet a threat you make while hiding behind the daddy pants of government, like the cowardly fuck that you are.


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## Unkotare (Oct 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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What an obedient little nazi you are.


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## rightwinger (Oct 4, 2019)

martybegan said:


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What evidence do you have that a child can not recognize they are another gender until they are 18?


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## rightwinger (Oct 4, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Wrong


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## martybegan (Oct 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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What evidence is there that allowing them to begin to transition before puberty is a good idea?

When morons like you want to make changes like this shit the burden is ON YOU to show it's viable and valid.


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## rightwinger (Oct 4, 2019)

_He said school administrators eventually gave him an ultimatum: either use male pronouns or risk losing his job._
_
_
Somehow, he was surprised as to why he was fired


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## rightwinger (Oct 4, 2019)

martybegan said:


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The student is in high school, puberty generally has started 
The evidence I have is that the transition process was ongoing. The teacher was warned about how he should refer to the student and intentionally did otherwise.

It is not up to a teacher to decide whether gender transition should be happening


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## alang1216 (Oct 4, 2019)

martybegan said:


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A threat would be something adverse to you I was prepared to execute myself.  Not the case, it is a warning, as in a courtesy message urging caution on you.

I certainly admire the theoretical courage of your convictions while anonymously posting on the web.


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## martybegan (Oct 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Even worse, now they are probably disrupting a natural process in the name of junk science. 

The teacher used neutral terms. If that isn't good enough for a fascist twat like you and the school board, it's time to burn the system down.


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## rightwinger (Oct 4, 2019)

martybegan said:


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It is not the teachers responsibility to declare transgenderism to be junk science

The decision is up to the student and his parents. This decision is not frivolous and usually will include doctors, psychologists and social workers 

The kid will have a hard enough time dealing with fellow students, he doesn’t need a teacher participating


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## martybegan (Oct 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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It is not the State's responsibility to pick the exact pronoun a teacher uses to address a student. 

The kid is being used as a sacrifice to the Transgender gods.


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## Grace Is Stoked (Oct 4, 2019)

I'm personally torn on this topic. I can understand where the student and the school administration are coming from, however, I also believe that there is a responsibility of the student to share an understanding that there are differences of beliefs as well and that those differences might be directed at them, and so ultimately there is a need to have mutual respect for that fact. A respectful compromise seemed like the most reasonable route for both sides but obviously that didn't seem to be the case. Minds and hearts rarely change due to force in my opinion.


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## rightwinger (Oct 4, 2019)

martybegan said:


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It is the school, not the state

A school has a responsibility to define teacher conduct. He ignored specific instruction


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


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Why is it that everyone must bow to gender dysphoria but not to other forms of body dysmorphia? For example, if a girl thinks she's a boy and anyone says differently, you lose your job. But if a person with an eating disorder says she is grossly overweight and yet is emaciated, and you say differently, you're "just trying to help" see.

The Leftists won't touch this post because they know it's true, and because anything sexual of course is their holy grail.

Dummies.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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This is an absolute momentary madness we are caught up in. It really is.

See my comparison regarding gender dysphoria vs. body dysmorphia in eating disorders. One is coddled and celebrated. The other is properly seen as a manifestation of a mental illness. Why?


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 5, 2019)

Unkotare said:


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Lenin called them "useful idiots"


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## SmokeALib (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Referring to an individual by one pronoun or another is now a religious belief???  The "religion" thing has become too nutty to be believed. I can't wait for the next whine.


You just ended your own wait period.


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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There have been transgendered for thousands of years
It is nothing new.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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That does not even remotely address my post.

Why is transgenderism supposed to be coddled and even celebrated?

While body dysmorphia in eating disorders a mental disorder to be corrected?


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


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I don’t think they are coddled. Previously, transgendered would be forced into hiding. If they were found, they would be cruelly mocked and driven from society

Today, they are allowed to be who they are. It is not an easy decision, the student in this case will have a difficult time socially. The school district is just trying to make it easier for him


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 5, 2019)

alang1216 said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
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  Centuries of common use and convention.

  In English, the pronouns _“he”_, _“his”_, _“him”_, etc., refer to someone who is male, while _“she”_, _“her”_, etc., refer to someone who is female.

  And no matter what mental delusions someone may be suffering from, as a matter of undeniable and immutable scientific fact, a _“female-to-male transgender”_ is female, not male, therefore, it is inappropriate to refer to her using male pronouns.  It is biologically impossible for someone of one sex to become the other, and only those who are suffering from severe mental defects fail to understand this.


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

Bob Blaylock said:


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Why do you care about their biology over their psychological leanings 
Transgender is nothing new. There have been transgendered throughout history. It is a real thing

Why can’t you just let them be?
They are not harming you


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Your boss tells you how you are to address a student
> You intentionally do otherwise
> You get fired for it
> 
> That is the way things work



  Your boss tells you to lie.

  You tell the truth, instead.

  Who's wrong, here, and who's right?  How you answer speaks directly of your integrity, or lack thereof.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

Grace Is Stoked said:


> I'm personally torn on this topic. I can understand where the student and the school administration are coming from, however, I also believe that there is a responsibility of the student to share an understanding that there are differences of beliefs as well and that those differences might be directed at them, and so ultimately there is a need to have mutual respect for that fact. A respectful compromise seemed like the most reasonable route for both sides but obviously that didn't seem to be the case. Minds and hearts rarely change due to force in my opinion.



The problem is that this situation is not a case of "belief" versus "belief." The student has a diagnosed psychological condition and presumably receives the support of parents and medical professionals. The student's beliefs, if any, are unknown. The teacher has a "belief." The student has no responsibility to the teacher and should not be involved in any way with how this teacher resolves any conflict between his personal beliefs and his teaching duties.

There is a growing and alarming trend today of people who choose to embrace a certain belief to involve second and third persons in it, who basically are innocent bystanders who didn't ask to be bothered and shouldn't be bothered. Many religions have a list of do's and don't's, but it is up to the practitioner to deal with any conflict between his or her religion and duties.

I have a background in discrimination law, and I've read many cases concerning people who, for instance, wanted to automatically have Saturdays off because they were Seventh Day Adventists, even though weekends off were awarded by seniority in a 24/7 manufacturing environment governed by a labor contract, a flight attendant who no longer wanted to serve alcohol on her flights because she had converted to Islam, county clerks who didn't want to issue marriage licenses. In all of these cases, the responsible individual was demanding that others take up the slack for them.


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> He violated a direct order on how that student should be addressed
> 
> The student is having a hard enough time adjusting to his new gender
> Teachers are supposed to make it easier



  The student does not have a _“new gender”_.

  Born female, the student remains female, and will remain so until she dies.  As a matter of undeniable scientific fact, a girl is not a boy, and cannot become a boy.

  It is not the responsibility of any sane person to play along with the delusions of someone who is so f•••ed up in the head as to be confused about the difference between boys and girls.


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Why do you care about their biology over their psychological leanings
> Transgender is nothing new. There have been transgendered throughout history. It is a real thing



  So have all other forms of mental illness.  What makes transgenderism so special, that those who suffer from it are entitled to have others play along with their insane delusions?




rightwinger said:


> Why can’t you just let them be?
> They are not harming you



  When sane people are compelled against their will to play along with insane lies; under threat of losing their jobs, or suffering other adverse social consequences, then sane people are being harmed.

  Why can't these mentally-defective freaks keep their delusions to themselves, and just let us sane people be?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Bob Blaylock said:
> 
> 
> > alang1216 said:
> ...



They and the current corrupted society are attempting to force me by law to play along with a mental delusion.

Thus am I harmed.

Believing you are Napoleon and dressing the part does not make you Napoleon, though you cut off your feet to make yourself short.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

Bob Blaylock said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Your boss tells you how you are to address a student
> ...



In the eyes of the School District, his parents and the child himself, he is a boy.
Legally, he is a boy

It is not up to a teacher to claim otherwise


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

I'm still wondering why right-wingers are so fraught up with any and all issues relating to sex and gender. Issues that involve people whom they don't even know. This appears to be a constant obsession with no explanation.


----------



## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> I'm still wondering why right-wingers are so fraught up [sic] with any and all issues relating to sex and gender. Issues that involve people whom they don't even know. This appears to be a constant obsession with no explanation.






You meant to say “left wingers.”


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

Bob Blaylock said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > He violated a direct order on how that student should be addressed
> ...


You refuse to acknowledge the psychological aspects of sexuality
You have the same logic against homosexuality. You don’t understand it, you don’t like it, so you won’t acknowledge it exists

Some people are wired differently. Pretending it is not so does not change it


----------



## alang1216 (Oct 5, 2019)

Bob Blaylock said:


> alang1216 said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...


What is the proper pronoun for intersex people?

Intersex is a group of conditions where there is a discrepancy between the external genitals and the internal genitals (the testes and ovaries).  The older term for this condition is hermaphroditism. Although the older terms are still included in this article for reference, they have been replaced by most experts, patients and families. Increasingly, this group of conditions is being called disorders of sex development (DSDs).​If someone can be physically intersex, why not mentally intersex?


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## CWayne (Oct 5, 2019)

Forced to adhere to another's ideology is a violation of his civil liberties.

No one has any obligation to adhere to anyone's demand to be addressed in a specific way.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



They are absolutely coddled. They have a delusion in the most correct sense of the term: they feel or believe they are what they are not. In the very same way an eating disordered person feels she is fat when she is not. The latter we diagnose, treat and correct, the former we cannot even speak to.

The difference is sexuality. That's it. If it's sexuality that is delusional the Left loves it.


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...


Whether you acknowledge it or not, that sexuality exists

Homosexuals are among us, they are attracted to people of the same sex. You might think it is yucky and want them to hide out of sight, but that is your opinion. 

Same applies to transgender


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Bob Blaylock said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Delusional.  There is no obligation to accept a lie.

I will not be made to admit seeing four fingers when only three are presented.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I'm going to give you one more chance and if you can't respond to what I'm actually saying than I'm going to assume my argument wins they day or you are cognitively unable.

This is not about if transgenderism exists or even whether I LIKE it or not. It's about the DOUBLE STANDARDS applied to transgenderism, which we must accept, and body dysmorphia, which we are not obligated to accept.

Can you wrap your head around that


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still wondering why right-wingers are so fraught up [sic] with any and all issues relating to sex and gender. Issues that involve people whom they don't even know. This appears to be a constant obsession with no explanation.
> ...



Nope. Right-wingers. The "left wingers" aren't constantly talking about birth control, abortion, "keeping your knees together," other anti-heterosexual crap, "abstinence only," gay sex, transgenders, gay marriage, etc. It's the right-wingers who seem to be obsessed with other people's personal lives and appear to want to control them, for unstated reasons. The "left wingers" pretty much are live-and-let-live. They don't babble on about somebody else. It's funny that so many right-wingers simultaneously are in love the the orange whore, who has made no secret that he's been a slut all of his life and fought STDs as his "personal Vietnam."

Since right-wingers don't like heterosexuals, and don't like LGBTs, I would hope that animal shelters are heavily guarded.


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## Moonglow (Oct 5, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> He could have included in the lawsuit an argument that the educational facility was interfering with the proper use of English pronouns and damaging the educational process.


Oh ghee where is that a statue?


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...



No shit.  Witness San Francisco, Los Angeles, Sacramento, Portland, Baltimore, Chicago etc.

Pig styes.


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...


You got your answer, you just don’t like it

It is not a delusion, their body is sending different signals. Nothing they can do about it. You think they should hide in the shadows so you are not offended. They want to just be what they are

I have not addressed your analogy of a fat person thinking they are thin because it is just plain stupid.


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



Actually, they are beautiful cities. 
You obviously have not seen them


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...



West coast?  Not since the 70s.  I can do business by phone or email.  I have friends who still travel there.  Pig styes, by their reckoning.

Chicago?  Went once.  Except for the photo op portion, pig sty.

Baltimore?  Not since 1995.  Pig sty.  More so now by report.

I have biz in NYC now and then.  It's been deteriorating under De Blasio.


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## Wyatt earp (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...




It's not the body.


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## Tommy Tainant (Oct 5, 2019)

Great news. The teacher is a prick and should not be in education.
Teachers are supposed to help kids not bully them


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



How do you know? I don't know where you live, but is it a "pigsty" too? 

But your response about what you have heard about some cities does not address any sexual issues and you did not respond to my post about the right-wingers and their sick obsession with sex and gender. It's been known for decades that the vast majority of Americans have not followed the no-sex-until-marriage/sex-only-with-one's-spouse/no-sex-unless-the-couple-wants-a-baby-because-contraception-is-bad thing. Is this the lifestyle that right-wingers actually practice and wish to impose on all of us heterosexuals? Why are they doing it? I think that they would be laughed off of every military base and college campus in the country.


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



I have been to all of those cities. Would not hesitate to visit any one of them again. Beautiful buildings, active nightlife, cultural activities, plenty to see, plenty to do. I can honestly say I enjoyed meeting the people in those cities. 

I prefer them to the right wing cities where the best attraction is the local Walmart


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...



Definitely not.



Lysistrata said:


> But your response about what you have heard about some cities



Just _heard_?  Au contraire, the evidence is legion.



Lysistrata said:


> does not address any sexual issues and you did not respond to my post about the right-wingers and their sick obsession with sex and gender.



Sex is set.  Male and female are the two states.  Anything else is anomaly.  Gender is a subclass of a grammatical class of some languages.

I don't subscribe to the recent application of the term to facilitate the blurring of sex roles.



Lysistrata said:


> It's been known for decades that the vast majority of Americans have not followed the no-sex-until-marriage/sex-only-with-one's-spouse/no-sex-unless-the-couple-wants-a-baby-because-contraception-is-bad thing.



Indeed.



Lysistrata said:


> Is this the lifestyle that right-wingers actually practice and wish to impose on all of us heterosexuals?



Has someone imposed it upon you?



Lysistrata said:


> Why are they doing it? I think that they would be laughed off of every military base and college campus in the country.



I could not say.  I don't know anyone who does that.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I've been to LA and SF, and had a great time in both except for traffic in LA and parking on a hill in SF. Wonderful cities. I used to live a half-hour from B'More. It was a great place to go. I took my Dad (WWII vet) on a sub that is anchored at Harborplace, which is always enjoyable. Little Italy, Greek Town, Lexington Market, the waterfront with one of my favorite bars, _The Horse You Came In On_ at Fell's Point, and a great shop called Ten Thousand Villages that sells crafts made by villagers in poor countries, with the proceeds going to development in those nations.
B'More a pig sty? No way. Visit Fell's Point and _Eat Bertha's Mussels!
_
This idea of attacking certain locations in the U.S. is ridiculous. It is some weird political ploy. I wonder where the people who indulge in this garbage actually live.


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> In the eyes of the School District, his parents and the child himself, he is a boy.
> Legally, he is a boy
> 
> It is not up to a teacher to claim otherwise



  Only in the eyes of one whose mind is so f•••ed up as to not know the difference between a boy and a girl.

  Hard science does not defer to the delusions of those who are mentally-defective.


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> I'm still wondering why right-wingers are so fraught up with any and all issues relating to sex and gender. Issues that involve people whom they don't even know. This appears to be a constant obsession with no explanation.



  Yours is the side that is determined to force immorality and madness on those of us who want no part of it.


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> You refuse to acknowledge the psychological aspects of sexuality
> You have the same logic against homosexuality. You don’t understand it, you don’t like it, so you won’t acknowledge it exists
> 
> Some people are wired differently. Pretending it is not so does not change it



  Someone who is so unbelievably stupid that he doesn't even know the difference between boys and girls is in no position to accuse anyone else of not understanding anything.


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...


I live about 45 min from Baltimore
Great city to visit. Not just the inner harbor tourist area, but Fells Point, some of the ethnic neighborhoods, local crab joints, Natty Bohs


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

Bob Blaylock said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > You refuse to acknowledge the psychological aspects of sexuality
> ...


Life is not always black or white


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 5, 2019)

alang1216 said:


> If someone can be physically intersex, why not mentally intersex?



  Sex is not a mental trait; it's a physical trait.

  I have green eyes.  If I claim to _“identify”_ as someone with brown eyes, then what color are my eyes?  They're still green.  The color of my eyes is a physical trait, that I cannot change simply by claiming them to be a different color.  No matter what color I may claim my eyes to be, anyone can look at them and see that they are green.

  I'm male.  I have an XY chromosome configuration, and a male morphology.  If I claim to _“identify”_ as female, then what sex/gender am I?  I'm still male.


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > No shit.  Witness San Francisco, Los Angeles, Sacramento, Portland, Baltimore, Chicago etc.
> ...



  I live in Sacramento.  I've occaionally been to Than Fwanthithco.  Have you seen these shitholes?  I have.


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## BrokeLoser (Oct 5, 2019)

alang1216 said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Correct common pronouns are not hate speech.
> ...



I thought you whacks were science whores...no?
You just hate biology?


----------



## BrokeLoser (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Child cruelty sending your kid to public schools.
> ...



I demand that you call me Nemo and damnit I want you to take me serious when I tell you that I’m a salmon.


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## alang1216 (Oct 5, 2019)

Bob Blaylock said:


> alang1216 said:
> 
> 
> > If someone can be physically intersex, why not mentally intersex?
> ...


Your brain is a physical thing.   I'm guessing that it may be when we know more about our brains we'll be able to see the *physical *differences between male and female brains.   If that is the case we'll likely find most physical brains match their physical body exterior but some small number will not.  That may create severe gender confusion for those individuals.  Speculation maybe, but what pronoun would be appropriate for someone whos *physical *interiors and exteriors don't match?


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## alang1216 (Oct 5, 2019)

BrokeLoser said:


> alang1216 said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...


Maybe we science whores know there are more things in heaven and earth that are dreamed of by you non-whores.  Or maybe I've learned the world is not black and white but an infinite number of shades of grey, even for seemingly binary things like gender.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

Bob Blaylock said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still wondering why right-wingers are so fraught up with any and all issues relating to sex and gender. Issues that involve people whom they don't even know. This appears to be a constant obsession with no explanation.
> ...



You are nuts. I'm not forcing "immorality and madness" on anyone. You are free to live in whatever way you like as long as you are not hurting anyone else or grooming children. What else do you think that Americans should do to mollycoddle you "deserving" folks?

Now explain why you people are constantly sniffing other people's crotches. This is totally disgusting. You can wear what you want, chant, sing, handle snakes, pleasure yourselves, pursue your sex rituals, whatever else it is that you people do, but _leave everyone else alone. _including people who have gender dysphoria.


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## BrokeLoser (Oct 5, 2019)

alang1216 said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > alang1216 said:
> ...



Cool...open up that infinite can of worms. You should probably live life questioning the validity of all things. Nothing may be as it seems...right?


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



It's a shame that more people don't explore the country that they live in. You are where I am, where we can get to places like B'More, Harper's Ferry, Sharpsburg, the Virginia wineries, DC, Annapolis, Oxford, Smith and Tangier. I even took my dad to the open house at Andrews. He was old, and boy, did they treat him well. Always something to do. We live in a great place.


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## BrokeLoser (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Bob Blaylock said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...



It’s awfully bizarre that you weirdos refuse to acknowledge that people have grown wise to your twisted bullshit...You can’t even sell the most noble bible thumpers on your filth anymore. Sucks huh?
I’ll let you in on a little secret...we Americans had it pretty good before you whack-jobs surfaced, we had this nation on the right pathway and trajectory...we gave you an inch with your faggot bullshit and now you filthy fucks won’t stop pushing. We’re done with you pukes, that’s all. Every single one of your leftists ideals is a direct attack on roots and foundation that made this nation the most desirable place on the planet once upon a time. Stop pitching your shit.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Okay so you don't have the cognitive skills to address my post. Got it


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...



You're too darn old to be this obsessed with everyone else's sex life, honey


----------



## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

BrokeLoser said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > Bob Blaylock said:
> ...



Who is your "we" and when did this "we" have the nation on "the right pathway and trajectory"? Are you upset that all of us "we" types live in a free country? You are no more American than I am, so get off of your high horse. Study the history of this country. It might help. Your ideas aren't any more important than anyone else's are.


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## BrokeLoser (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...



Holy shit, I really have to break this shit down for you?
“We” are those of us whom still practice traditional American values, American culture, American tradition, patriotism, nationalism, accountability, discipline, self control...etc etc. 
We appreciate an established normalcy, we have standards, we believe in societal boundaries to maintain a level of likemindedness. Sounds horrible huh?


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...




Of course they are. They (you) talk about little else.


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> ...The "left wingers" pretty much are live-and-let-live. They don't babble on about somebody else. ......




You must be joking.


----------



## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



False. The right-wing drama queens always raise these issues and the rest of us have to tell them to fuck off in response. We heterosexuals don't generally go around saying stupid stuff like this.


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...




Despite the evidence of your personal obsession on this thread, for example?


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## Andylusion (Oct 5, 2019)

I self identify as a panda.  I want others to feed, protect, and shelter me for life, because I'm an endangered species now.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



All I'm looking for is an explanation for the right-wingers' obsession with sex, which they continue to avoid giving. The rest of us are normal. You people refuse to explain yourselves and your fascination with others. Perhaps if you would post a link that would explain it. We need to get to the bottom of things like using the threat of unwanted pregnancy to interfere with heterosexuals. What do you gain by this?


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...





....as you repeatedly demonstrate YOUR obsession with sex...


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> _leave everyone else alone. _including people who have gender dysphoria.




Yet you have no similar requirement for transsexuals. 

This is a case of an incredibly tiny minority bullying the vast majority by demanding they be called something they are not. 

When are they going to live and let live instead of all this authoritarianism?


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 5, 2019)

Andylusion said:


> I self identify as a panda.  I want others to feed, protect, and shelter me for life, because I'm an endangered species now.




I have a very nice clump of bamboo in my back yard if you are interested.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

SweetSue92 said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



All  you can come up with is a cheap shot about my age.

I'm not obsessed with everyone else's sex life. I'm questioning why you idiots are. What the hell is "abstinence only" education supposed to do and why have we wasted so many millions on it instead of preparing the kids for adulthood with a comprehensive sex education, in which abstinence can be included? You people in the cults are responsible for endangering the futures of millions of young people who are not, themselves, in the cults. What are you monkeys trying to accomplish? More abortions? More broken heterosexual relationships? More poor people struggling to make a living for themselves and a passel of kids they didn't/couldn't plan for?


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > _leave everyone else alone. _including people who have gender dysphoria.
> ...



"Bullying"? Oh you poor dears! You are sacrificing soooo much, that I must pass you a virtual tissue. What horrible things are you being subjected to, besides nothing?


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

Bob Blaylock said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...


I used to live in the Bay Area in Solano County

San Fran is a wonderful city
Cosmopolitan, great restaurants, beautiful views, scenic architecture
Lot of fun places to hang out


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...




 I realize you are saddled with an IQ below 80 but the teacher in question was fired.

Have you ever considered growing up a little bit? Being stupid is one thing but continually acting like a 13 year old is something else altogether.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

Dogmaphobe said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > Dogmaphobe said:
> ...



Of course you would come up with a cheap insult about intelligence. I grew up a long time ago. Maybe this guy can get a job in a religious  school. What makes you the Great Definer? Where did you get your authoritarian streak from? It's very childish to expect everyone else to follow whatever "rules" you make up.


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## Andylusion (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Dogmaphobe said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...



I see a tiny population, that is roughly 0.5% of the nation, trying to dictate to the rest of the human race, scientifically inaccurate descriptions, that contradict 6,000+ years of human history.

And you want to claim that we are the great authoritarians?

I think this qualifies you, and those like you, as a cult of mass delusion.   Are the monsters trying to get you?  We have professional people, and pills, for those with your condition.   We'll keep you safe from the monsters.


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## rightwinger (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...



I have been to most of the major cities in the country. 
Love NYC, Boston, Philly, SF, DC, Austin TX is awesome, Baltimore has its ethnic flavor, San Diego is just plain fun
Not crazy about LA and Atlanta ....they just seem generic 

I have also spent months in Texas, Arizona, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Carolina and seen what Conservative America has to offer 
I see the postings of Conservatives on this board attacking our major cities (run by Democrats), but Conservative America is just plain dull. No civic pride, no parks,  dinner at Denny’s, shopping at Walmart, night life is the local dive with a juke box and a pool table.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 5, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Bob Blaylock said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



I was only in SF once. I loved the concept of "carry-out cocktails" that you could take with you to watch those ridiculously funny sea lions throwing each other overboard. Alcatraz was really interesting. I've never seen such fog ("Oh, there's a bridge there? So there is. It wasn't there before.") And I met a high school friend who I hadn't seen in 25 years, and spent the evening sitting on her lap. True to form, she had blow-up sharks dangling in her bathroom. She always was whimsical. SF is a wonderful, exciting place.


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## Unkotare (Oct 5, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> SweetSue92 said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...




But you can’t seem to stop talking about it.


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## Politicallyinsane (Oct 6, 2019)

I think people should at least try to be understanding and respectful towards other people. If someone wishes to be trans what is it really hurting to be nice? too many evil and nasty people in this world and it serves no one any good.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 6, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...



I have never said anything about someone else's sex life. I don't care if fundies carry out their sex rituals.What I have said pertains to getting to the bottom of why these trashy people spend such energy on delving into other people's sex lives and trying to control them. I just want to get to the bottom of the motive for the right wingers' excessive preoccupation with what other Americans do. They seem to be either trying to control heterosexuals or wipe out heterosexuality altogether.


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## Politicallyinsane (Oct 6, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Lysistrata said:
> 
> 
> > SweetSue92 said:
> ...




Neither can the republican party and conservatives that wish to control peoples lives. There's no question about it. Why not let people live the way they wish?

People like me only wish for liberty.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 6, 2019)

Politicallyinsane said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...



Me, too. People have sex for lots of reasons, from pick-ups to profound emotional connections. I don't know much about the emotional conditions of people who exchange money for sex or indulge in barroom pickups because I was never at that place, but I do know from emotional connections and it seems that these control-freaks know absolutely nothing about human emotions. To them, everything among heterosexuals is a barroom pickup that proceeds to the back of a car. Most of us heterosexuals don't live like this.


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## Meathead (Oct 6, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Lysistrata said:
> ...


Nobady cares wtf you do. Just don't expect others to share your delusions.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 6, 2019)

Meathead said:


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If you don't care what other people do, why all the right-wing sniffing around other people's crotches? Their cries of "abstinence!" Their efforts at keeping people sexually ignorant. What's that all about? They are very anti-heterosexual. What's their thing?


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## Meathead (Oct 6, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


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I don't care if you like sniffing crotches. Stay away from mine though.

Other than that, if you want to be a fag, be a fag, but don't expect for me to use feminine pronouns when referring to you.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 6, 2019)

Meathead said:


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I don't sniff crotches. That's what right-wingers do.

"Fag" is a hate term, and your use of it demonstrates exactly what you are. 

Yeah. You can use feminine pronouns to refer to me. I happen to be a female heterosexual. Your right-wing crotch-sniffing ways seem to be centered on females who are heterosexual or whom the right-wingers think that they can force to be heterosexual. Why do you people want to fuck up heterosexuality so badly?


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


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Of course you have.


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2019)

Politicallyinsane said:


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Control people's lives, like forcing them to speak a certain way? Forcing them to think a certain way? You don't get much more controlling than that.


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> ..... People have sex for lots of reasons, from pick-ups to profound emotional connections. .......





There you go talking about people's sex lives again. Obsession.


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## Meathead (Oct 6, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


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Sorry. I thought you were a fag. You see, I thought that being a fag and being male but "identifying" as a woman were the same, but at the end of the day you're still a "he".. Still, let me express how little I care.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 6, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Lysistrata said:
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> > ..... People have sex for lots of reasons, from pick-ups to profound emotional connections. .......
> ...



Do you know a single poster who obsesses about sex like this one does, while projecting it on everyone else?

WEIRD


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## alang1216 (Oct 6, 2019)

BrokeLoser said:


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Maybe we shouldn't expect something as complex as human behavior problems to have simple solutions?  Unfortunately we are lazy and we always look for simple answers to complex problems.


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## BrokeLoser (Oct 6, 2019)

alang1216 said:


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We made it thousands of years without normalizing chicks with dicks...keep the disgusting weirdos in the closet for another couple thousand.

Remember, smart people simplify all things...that’s how REAL resolve is sought.


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## Likkmee (Oct 6, 2019)

Men wearing womens clothes. Electric chair or mental facility.

Women wearing mens clothes. Construction/manufacturing/military every fuckin day


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## alang1216 (Oct 6, 2019)

BrokeLoser said:


> We made it thousands of years without normalizing chicks with dicks...keep the disgusting weirdos in the closet for another couple thousand.
> 
> Remember, smart people simplify all things...that’s how REAL resolve is sought.


We made it thousands of years without abolishing slavery, too.  Did you want another couple of thousands of years of that too?

Smart people simplify things when they are trying to explain things to children, not when they are actually trying to solve complex problems.  That is the difference between *Science *and *Scientific American*.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 6, 2019)

Unkotare said:


> Lysistrata said:
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> > ..... People have sex for lots of reasons, from pick-ups to profound emotional connections. .......
> ...



So I can't explain the reasons why I think that right-wingers are sick and obsessed in attacking normal heterosexuals? Reread #136.`What is the motive behind "abstinence only," "keep your knees together," the whole "everybody is a whore" thing? For instance, the orange whore put an "abstinence-only" POS, who has made millions off of her obsession, in charge of family planning at DHS, with full knowledge of her background. She needs to be forced to speak out about her motivations. She hides.

Most heterosexuals, male and female, don't live the barroom hook-up life. I am trying to get to the root of your disturbance with heterosexuals.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 6, 2019)

Meathead said:


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I don't know the source of your obvious sexual insecurity. But the question still remains as to why the right-wingers are so obsessed with women's crotches and how we exercise our sexuality, as well as with LGBTs, transgenders, etc. Who are the assholes that say stuff like "keep your knees together"? What's the motive for all of this? Apparently they have a problem with heterosexuals.


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## BrokeLoser (Oct 6, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


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## emilynghiem (Oct 6, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Dear rightwinger 
Then keep this issue out of the classrooms to begin with.
When the LEFT doesn't agree with teaching Creationism or prayers or God,
this is REMOVED from the textbooks and classrooms. It's not even allowed in as a choice
for teachers and admin. Students can pray or believe as they want to, but the school staff cannot engage in any such topics.

So why not treat LGBT beliefs the same way?
If these are just as much a PART of the student's identities,
well, so is spiritual identity in believing in God and Christ.

If we are going to start including and IMPOSING LGBT beliefs
but not even ALLOWING Christian beliefs, that is DISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF CREED.

Either treat all these 'faith based' beliefs about personal identity EQUALLY
and INCLUDE and ALLOW free speech and expression the same way for all,
or REMOVE them all or AGREE TO HAVE SEPARATE SCHOOLS 
(similar to Catholics running their own schools if they want to talk about God and prayer).

If LGBT want to make that part of school policy, then FUND YOUR OWN SCHOOLS
and you can dictate for everyone similar to Catholic schools where people AGREE to the theology taught there!


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2019)

emilynghiem said:


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Emily

It is common courtesy 
The child wants to be referred to as a male.  

We don’t need separate schools. We need conservatives to stop acting like such Dicks


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## BrokeLoser (Oct 6, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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You’re letting the simplicity escape you...Intelligent beings refuse to retard themselves...A twisted loon can not and should not expect intelligent beings to pretend they are something they aren’t... that’s just plain retarded.


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2019)

BrokeLoser said:


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I would not presume to call you an intelligent being


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## BrokeLoser (Oct 6, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Of course you wouldn’t...you’re so fucked up you can’t recognize others whom are fucked up...Standard shit.


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## Bob Blaylock (Oct 6, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Emily
> 
> It is common courtesy
> The child wants to be referred to as a male.
> ...



  Nothing about any rational concept of _“common courtesy”_ supports compelling sane people to play along with the insane delusions of mentally-defective freaks.

  It is those of you who want to force sane people to call a girl a boy, who are _“acting like such Dicks”_.


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## rightwinger (Oct 6, 2019)

Bob Blaylock said:


> rightwinger said:
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Yes it is

You are dealing with a child
A child with a lot of pressure and drama in their life

A teacher siding with those who are mocking and taunting a student does not help


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## Unkotare (Oct 6, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> ..... the question still remains as to why the right-wingers are so obsessed with women's crotches and how we exercise our sexuality......





...she says as she talks about nothing but crotches and sexuality. Get some help with your obsession.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 7, 2019)

emilynghiem said:


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Being LGBT is not a "faith-based belief," it is a state of being. I know that my being a heterosexual is not "faith-based." A student who is transgendered or otherwise LGBT must be in class, so this issue cannot be kept out of the classroom. I have not heard of one single case in which an LGBT student has made his or her "spiritual identity" an issue, including this one. I've known several LGBTs who are themselves Christian. LGBTs and the Christian faith are not at odds with each other.

Yes, students may pray, but teachers and administrators cannot for the very wise reason that they are adult leaders who might try to proselytize students or give them the impression that their choice of faith is the preferred choice. It's the parents who have the right and responsibility to teach their kids about the family's faith traditions, yet I have heard of cases in which teachers have openly proselytized their students and schools have broadcast sectarian prayers over the loudspeakers into the classrooms and held mandatory assemblies that featured lectures by clergy of a specific sect. Remember, parents are not present with their children in school. Teachers and administrators have plenty of personal time to pursue their beliefs.


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## martybegan (Oct 7, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Public Schools ARE the State (big S, implies the government), and thus fall under the protections people have from the government. 

modified to be sure as they are also an employer, but still there nonetheless. 

The instruction was bullshit anyway.


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## martybegan (Oct 7, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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What if the child wanted to referred to as a fucking dolphin?


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## Correll (Oct 7, 2019)

alang1216 said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Vlaming fired back in a lawsuit filed on Monday, accusing the West Point School Board of violating his right to free speech. He said he was fired because he avoided using pronouns all together when referring to the student, who was transitioning to male at the time.
> ...




Except he just avoided the use of pronouns. He did not call the girl a girl.


I would say the teacher has a good case.


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## Correll (Oct 7, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Nurturing and encouraging the child's mental illness is not doing her any favors.


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## rightwinger (Oct 7, 2019)

martybegan said:


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In that case the State is the employer and the employer makes the rules

You break the rules, you are subject to termination


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## rightwinger (Oct 7, 2019)

Correll said:


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Neither is forcing a child into a sexuality just to please you or the people in the community


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## martybegan (Oct 7, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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The rule is retarded. The teacher followed the rule to the best of their ability by using neutral terms. 

That being not good enough is the fault of smarmy SJW twits like you, proto-fascists who desire reality to give way to feeewings and utter bullshit.


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## martybegan (Oct 7, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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This isn't about sexuality, it is about a person thinking the pipes don't match the programming. 

How about the best interest of the child? Sorry but accepting your assigned sex is far better than having to mutilate the person to give them the illusion of being their "true" gender.


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## rightwinger (Oct 7, 2019)

martybegan said:


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We said the same thing about homosexuality

Just pretend you are straight, it will be easier on you
Nobody will know the difference


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## martybegan (Oct 7, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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The difference is being gay doesn't require you to mutilate yourself to pretend you are something you are not.

Trying to equate gender dysphoria with sexuality is just as dumb as trying to equate sexuality with race.


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 7, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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"We" said?

are you suffering from multiple personality disorder again, rightwinger?

The issue here has to do with firing a teacher for referring to a kid in a truthful fashion. I realize your intellect does not extend beyond your allegiance to your tribe, but we have truly entered Orwellian times when authoritarian power is being used to dismiss a teacher for daring to speak truthfully.

Nobody has taken away any rights for the transsexual -- only the teacher, here.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2019)

martybegan said:


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I would demand to be referred to as "Your Excellency".


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## Dogmaphobe (Oct 7, 2019)




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## martybegan (Oct 7, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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Don't let them off easy. Demand to be referred to as "His high and royal mightyness, grand poobah, big chief muckety-muck"


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 7, 2019)

martybegan said:


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Better yet, "My Master."


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## rightwinger (Oct 7, 2019)

martybegan said:


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What difference does it make?


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## Correll (Oct 7, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> Correll said:
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It's not about pleasing me, or "the people".

And the teacher was willing to avoid pronouns so as to not "trigger" the mentally ill girl.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 7, 2019)

Weatherman2020 said:


> “Defendants made up an uncompromising interpretation of their policies to compel Mr. Vlaming to take sides in an ongoing public debate regarding gender dysphoria and use pronouns that express an objectively untrue ideological message,” the lawsuit says. “Mr. Vlaming’s conscience and religious practice prohibits him from intentionally lying, and he sincerely believes that referring to a female student as a male by using an objectively male pronoun is telling a lie.”



What "ongoing debate regarding gender dysphoria" is actually occurring? The student, his parents, and the medical professionals they consult have a right to proceed the way they wish. They are not "debating" anyone and I would hazard a guess that they don't give a rat's ass about someone who has ideological problems with their course of action. This teacher had no right to force his way into this student's life, especially since he was instructed not to do so. We don't even know what religion this teacher belongs to. If we did, it really wouldn't make any difference.


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## SweetSue92 (Oct 8, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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You only celebrate the delusions because they're sexual, you know.

No one celebrates them when a woman walks around at 70 lbs thinking she's fat, but it's basically the very same thing.


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## Correll (Oct 8, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > “Defendants made up an uncompromising interpretation of their policies to compel Mr. Vlaming to take sides in an ongoing public debate regarding gender dysphoria and use pronouns that express an objectively untrue ideological message,” the lawsuit says. “Mr. Vlaming’s conscience and religious practice prohibits him from intentionally lying, and he sincerely believes that referring to a female student as a male by using an objectively male pronoun is telling a lie.”
> ...




THe teacher was avoiding the use of pronouns. 


Firing someone over that, is Tyranny.


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## rightwinger (Oct 8, 2019)

Correll said:


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Did he avoid using pronouns for other students also?
He was instructed how to refer to the student


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## there4eyeM (Oct 8, 2019)

Under U.S. law, it would not seem legally possible to force any person to use specified words and certainly not when the words are not necessary to communication. If this teacher tactfully avoided gender-specific terms in the cited interchanges, the First Amendment protects him. He will (and should) win.


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## there4eyeM (Oct 8, 2019)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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...for England.


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 8, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Good little sheeple, just do whatever insane thing your masters order you to do.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2019)

there4eyeM said:


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Stupidest thing I've heard all week.  But it's early.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 8, 2019)

Correll said:


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It's not tyranny. You are really being a drama queen. What would you say if a doctor was told by the state what s/he must say, or can't say, to patients, or taxpayer money is given out only on the condition that certain issues cannot be talked about? These are situations in which no employer/employee relationship, while this one does involve such a relationship.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


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It is tyranny.  Comply with the order to forward an obvious and educationally-incorrect lie to students or lose your job.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 8, 2019)

there4eyeM said:


> Under U.S. law, it would not seem legally possible to force any person to use specified words and certainly not when the words are not necessary to communication. If this teacher tactfully avoided gender-specific terms in the cited interchanges, the First Amendment protects him. He will (and should) win.



The anti-abortion politicians have passed laws in several states requiring doctors to use specified words when speaking to their patients. Some states have also passed laws requiring women who choose abortion to report to "counseling" that actually consists of religious/ideological indoctrination. So forced speech and forced attendance to speech evidently are legally possible. The executive branch departments, under the orange whore, have forbidden the use of certain words and phrases in reports prepared by department employees, in areas involving discussion of climate issues, for instance. Be careful about First Amendment issues.


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## Weatherman2020 (Oct 8, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


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And the people who think they’re Napoleon?  Lassie?


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## Correll (Oct 8, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Which is bat shit crazy on many levels.


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## Correll (Oct 8, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Correll said:
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If he was instructed to NOT refer to the girl as a girl and insisted on doing so, I would support the idea that the school had the right to fire him. He is an employee.


Telling him HOW to refer to a student, and firing him for avoiding the issue by avoiding gender specific pronouns, is not reasonable. 


This is tyranny. A man's life is being fucked up, by bullies and thugs who are demanding conformity with politically motivated madness.


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## Lysistrata (Oct 8, 2019)

Correll said:


> Lysistrata said:
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He was told what to do. He didn't do it. I don't know what his religion is, apparently one that is concerned with pronouns, but can't this cult give him a job? These attention whores are getting really annoying.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 8, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


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What he was told to do is insane.


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## Correll (Oct 8, 2019)

Lysistrata said:


> Correll said:
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The man's job was "teacher", not "crazy person coddler".


The instructions were unreasonable, and firing him for avoiding the issue, not disobeying, is also unreasonable.


The people who did this are tyrants.


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## beautress (Oct 8, 2019)

The teacher who was fired was wrongfully dismissed based on her belief that a person whose DNA equation is xx is a "her" where as xy and males and aka "him." There are hundreds of races, clans, countries, and genetic differences in human beings. 

The other alternative is to shut down public schools. They're getting too political, which means it's just going to be one fight after another with regard to what's best for the most students. Schools are a shackle to the government, and if people can't pray there for any reason, they're already abusing the First Amendment of the Constitution.


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## martybegan (Oct 9, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Only progressives can't see the difference between mutilation and non-mutilation.


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## Zorro! (Jan 17, 2020)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Child cruelty sending your kid to public schools.
> Fired for not using Orwellian speech, welcome to the 21st Century.
> 
> A Virginia high school teacher who was fired for refusing to use a transgender student’s preferred pronouns has filed a lawsuit against the school district.
> ...


MORE LIKE THIS, PLEASE: Sanity at Last: Court Refuses to Kowtow to Personal Pronouns Like ‘Xemself, Faerself.’

"Varner cites no legal authority supporting this request. Instead, Varner’s motion simply states that 'I am a woman' and argues that failure to refer to him with female pronouns 'leads me to feel that I am being discriminated against based on my gender identity,'" the ruling explains.​
The panel made three key arguments against such a notion.

"First, no authority supports the proposition that we may require litigants, judges, court personnel, or anyone else to refer to *gender-dysphoric litigants* with pronouns matching their subjective gender identity." Courts have taken two different approaches to this issue. Some have referred to litigants who identify as transgender by their preferred pronouns, while others have referred to the pronoun matching the person's biological sex. "None has adopted the practice as a matter of binding precedent, and none has purported to obligate litigants or others to follow the practice."​As for Varner, he has conceded that he is biologically male but argues that female pronouns are required to prevent "discrimination" based on his "gender identity."

"But Varner identifies no federal statute or rule requiring courts or other parties to judicial proceedings to use pronouns according to a litigant’s gender identity. Congress knows precisely how to legislate with respect to gender identity discrimination, because it has done so in specific statutes. … But Congress has said nothing to prohibit courts from referring to litigants according to their biological sex, rather than according to their subjective gender identity," the ruling explained.​
The panel also argued that "if a court were to compel the use of particular pronouns at the invitation of litigants, it could raise delicate questions about judicial impartiality."

"Increasingly, federal courts today are asked to decide cases that turn on hotly-debated issues of sex and gender identity," they explained, citing cases like _Doe v. Boyertown_, which involved a transgender policy allowing boys in the girls' restroom. Taking a position on this politically-charged issue could make the court seem biased in favor of transgender litigants. "Even this appearance of bias, whether real or not, should be avoided."​
The case involves Norman Varner, a federal prisoner who pleaded guilty in 2012 to attempted receipt of child pornography and was sentenced to 15 years in prison, partly due to his previous conviction on child pornography and his failure to register as a sex offender. In 2015, he claimed to have transitioned to being female, and asked to be referred to as "Kathrine Nicole Jett."


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## initforme (Jan 17, 2020)

Most of you hate teachers...your posts are total frauds.


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## Weatherman2020 (Jan 17, 2020)

initforme said:


> Most of you hate teachers...your posts are total frauds.


Virginia teacher sues after being fired for alleged transgender discrimination


Smoke it.


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## CWayne (Jan 17, 2020)

rightwinger said:


> martybegan said:
> 
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The order violated HIS rights, hence the law suit.


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