# Tennessee Rep. Marsha Blackburn Defends Sacred Right To Buy Crappy Insurance



## OnePercenter (Nov 1, 2013)

What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?

OR

Does this opinion of the Republican Rep. Marsha Blackburn have more to do with insurance companies ability to make higher profits from crap policies? 

Read more at Tennessee Rep. Marsha Blackburn Defends Sacred Right To Buy Cheap Shoes, Crappy Insurance


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## mudwhistle (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
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She's for choice. 

You know, as in more than one choice.


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## Rozman (Nov 1, 2013)

Obama said If you like your plan you can keep it....
He never said If I don't like your plan fuck you you have to get one I like...


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## daveman (Nov 1, 2013)

Rozman said:


> Obama said If you like your plan you can keep it....
> He never said If I don't like your plan fuck you you have to get one I like...



No, but that's what he meant.  

And Obama Ass-Sucks think that's just swell.


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 1, 2013)

Dear Liberals,

Get a clue on website design. With this letter you will find a book entitled _Web Sites for Dummies._. The next time, don't let chimps do the source coding.






Signed, 

The GOP


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## OnePercenter (Nov 1, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> OnePercenter said:
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> > What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
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How is creating choice when it's detrimental to taxpayers that she 'supposed' to be representing? Or is her first priority corporations?


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## mudwhistle (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


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Corporations are the only folks that aren't going to suffer. 

Like always, if the government screws them, guess what......they pass on the ass-reaming to us. If they didn't they'd be out of business. 

Obamanation leaders know this only too well. That is the whole purpose of Democrat legislation. To force businesses to pass on their shit to the consumer.


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## OnePercenter (Nov 1, 2013)

Rozman said:


> Obama said If you like your plan you can keep it....
> He never said If I don't like your plan fuck you you have to get one I like...



I'm keeping mine!


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


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How come you continue to deny reality by defending Obamacare? How is it a 'choice' when you're summarily kicked off of your insurance, an insurance plan you took great care in selecting, and are then forced at gunpoint to buy the government plan? Where is the choice?

Are you insane?


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


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Open wide!


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## OnePercenter (Nov 1, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


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Really? You don't qualify for any subsidies?


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 1, 2013)

Just a quick question: How are insurance companies profiting when only 6 people signed up for Obamacare in the first day?


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## mudwhistle (Nov 1, 2013)




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## OnePercenter (Nov 1, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


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The only policies that are being terminated are 'crap' policies. How long did it take you to decide on a 'crap' policy? And why would you pay for a 'crap' policy?

Also, what's the name of your government plan? Aetna? UHC? Humana? etc. What is it?


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## OnePercenter (Nov 1, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


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Lot's of those Escalades in my neighborhood. But then everyone that lives in my neighborhood is a one percenter, and some are afraid that they're going to have to pay the same effective income tax as you do.


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


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Crap policies? Who are you to say they are 'crap' policies? How are they 'crap' policies to begin with? Naturally, I wouldn't pick a crap policy. Even if I did, I would like to be able to select a crap policy without my government breathing down my neck.

In all seriousness, people picked these plans because they suited their needs the best. Not because they were 'crap' policies. How does a Cadillac plan all of a sudden become "substandard" under Obamacare? Yours is a shitty excuse for cancelling the insurance of over 2,100,000 people. 

I don't have any insurance right now. Reason being the market has been thrown into such a state of chaos no thanks to Obamacare, I'd dare not try to purchase a policy of any kind. I wouldn't run the risk of having my plan cancelled no sooner than I got it.


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## NYcarbineer (Nov 1, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


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What people like you don't understand and don't want to understand is that there are provisions in the ACA that require the insurance companies to sell policies that aren't crap,

or pay the price for doing so:

Beyond Rebates: How Much Are Consumers Saving from the ACA?s Medical Loss Ratio Provision? | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> How is creating choice when it's detrimental to taxpayers that she 'supposed' to be representing? Or is her first priority corporations?



I'm pretty sure corporations are the President's first priority seeing how his legislation gave a multi-billion dollar windfall to Big Insurance by placing every American under their thumbs.  

Or perhaps the ocean is pink in your dimension.


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 1, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


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Sorry, not falling for your bunk tonight. The entire law itself is crap. It doesn't matter what provisions say what. If only 6 people managed to sign up for the damned thing, what good will these provisions do? At the 24 hour rate of enrollment we saw on Oct 1, it would take 3,196 years for 7 million people to sign up for Obamacare.

Stop defending it. This is the end of the line for the ACA. Those 2.1 million people aren't saving money by being kicked off their plans and forced into more expensive ones. You can take that nonsense elsewhere.


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## healthmyths (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
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> OR
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So tell me....
Would you call an insurance company to sell you insurance on your home while it is burning?

The problem with naive people like you is you have NO idea the concept of "risk assessment".. of how insurance works.
The problem with people like you is pure and simple economic ignorance because obviously you would call the insurance company to cover your burning house!
I don't know how to make it simpler.
The average insurance company paid out over 80% of every dollar  BEFORE ACA!

Honestly I think most people have looked at this health issue using the big end of the binoculars i.e. YOU are NOT SEEING THE #1 major cost driver!

Do you know that $850 billion a year is wasted in health care costs ... i.e. insurance companies pay this out!  This makes premiums rise!
Do you know 90% of the doctors can tell you where this $850 billion can be reduced?

But again.. you like millions of people are finding out Obama lied and MSM has covered for him!

Why don't you get mad at the $850 billion a year that is wasted and is simply paid out and that makes premiums more then necessary.


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## Katzndogz (Nov 1, 2013)

Because of obamacare single men will no longer have to buy crappy insurance that doesn't provide for maternity care and lactation training.


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## P@triot (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
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As always - the idiot Dumbocrat creates the problem and then cries the loudest about the problem. Then they suggest a "fix" for the problem they created themselves which is exponentially _worse_ than the original problem. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. 

Atlas Shrugged, anyone?!?

 [MENTION=43400]OnePercenter[/MENTION], the beauty of the free market is that you are completely and totally empowered to get up off of your lazy ass and "fix" it yourself without forcing other people to do your bidding like a mini-Saddam Hussein. So why don't you create a health insurance company which doesn't offer "crappy" insurance, but instead offers cadillac plan insurance (oh wait, that's right, cadillac plans were outlawed by Obama in Obamacare - which was designed to create "affordable, quality health insurance" - which is exactly what a cadillac plan is but then was outlawed... but I digress). So anyway - why don't _you_ offer exceptional plans to the American people?


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## Katzndogz (Nov 1, 2013)

Why didn't health care overhaul address the single largest driver of health care increases, tort reform?


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## blackhawk (Nov 1, 2013)

How about my right to decide for myself  what type of insurance I need or want? How about letting me decide if the insurance I have or want is crappy or not? Despite what the President and other's in the government might think I'm more than capable of making my own decisions in matters like this I can decide if something is crappy or substandard on my own thank you very fucking much.


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## NYcarbineer (Nov 1, 2013)

blackhawk said:


> How about my right to decide for myself  what type of insurance I need or want? How about letting me decide if the insurance I have or want is crappy or not? Despite what the President and other's in the government might think I'm more than capable of making my own decisions in matters like this I can decide if something is crappy or substandard on my own thank you very fucking much.



How about we take down all the speed limit signs and trust that everyone is more capable of deciding what's a safe speed than is the government?


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## NYcarbineer (Nov 1, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


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You're a perfect example of why conservatism always loses to progress.


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 1, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> blackhawk said:
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> > How about my right to decide for myself  what type of insurance I need or want? How about letting me decide if the insurance I have or want is crappy or not? Despite what the President and other's in the government might think I'm more than capable of making my own decisions in matters like this I can decide if something is crappy or substandard on my own thank you very fucking much.
> ...



Ever hear of the Autobahn?

Of course not.


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 1, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


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How is this progress? How is lying about people having a choice under this law progress? How is kicking millions of people off their plans progress? Are you freaking serious? This is what conservatism needed to revitalize it. 

Progress? No. This is tyranny. You can take this "progress" and shove it up your ass.


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## Zander (Nov 1, 2013)

2 words

Adverse

Selection


2 more

Death 

Spiral


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## blackhawk (Nov 1, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> blackhawk said:
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> > How about my right to decide for myself  what type of insurance I need or want? How about letting me decide if the insurance I have or want is crappy or not? Despite what the President and other's in the government might think I'm more than capable of making my own decisions in matters like this I can decide if something is crappy or substandard on my own thank you very fucking much.
> ...



Jesus could have come up with a weaker comparison? Yeah a national speed limit and choosing your medical insurance that's the same good grief.


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 1, 2013)

Zander said:


> 2 words
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Two more:

Shit storm.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


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Uh........no.

I'd sow myself up before I sign up for Obamacare.


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## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


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Why is it detrimental to taxpayers for her to choose?

-Geaux


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## g5000 (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?



And how much is that per year?

How much tax money is going toward paying the medical bills of the voluntarily uninsured?

Hmm?  I bet you have NO idea and are just parroting someone's bullet point you heard.


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 1, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


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And mud here is so badass that he could probably do it too.


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## Geaux4it (Nov 1, 2013)

Frightful poll sends Dems screaming | Fox News

Frightful poll sends Dems screaming

Buzz cut:
&#8226; Frightful poll sends Dems screaming
&#8226; Deadline day for ObamaCare exemptions
&#8226; Holy See (and hear?)
&#8226; Cruz vows no tricks for fellow Senate GOPers
&#8226; All the eggs and toilet paper in Fargo&#8230;

CRASHES, CANCELLED POLICIES FRACTURE DEMS -As millions of Americans receive notices that their insurance policies are being cancelled because of new ObamaCare regulations, Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., will offer her own bill that will allow Americans to keep their existing plans. When news broke this week that the president for years led voters to believe they could keep their coverage under his insurance overhaul despite knowing otherwise, Republicans pounced offering legislation to block the Obama rules banning low-post, bare-bones coverage.  Landrieu, facing a tough re-election fight in a Republican state, is jumping the line with a bill of her own.  &#8220;The promise was made and it should be kept,&#8221; Landrieu told the New Orleans Times-Picayune. &#8220;And it was our understanding when we voted for that, that people when they have insurance, could keep what they had. So, I&#8217;m going to be working on that fix.&#8221; Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., is also preparing his own legislation that would delay by a full year the imposition of ObamaCare fines for those who don&#8217;t buy insurance.

Crash drives Obama to new low - President Obama went to Boston to rally his supporters on behalf of his embattled law, but a new WSJ/NBC News poll shows that the failed launch of his signature law is proving a major drag with the public at large. His job approval rating skidded to 42 percent, the lowest-ever rating in the poll. That&#8217;s an 11-point drop from his job approval rating following his re-election and 5 points since last month.Disapproval for the health law shot up to 47 percent, 10 points ahead of approval, double the gap from earlier this month.

Scary stuff - It was a dire WSJ/NBC News poll that drove Republicans to the exits on the partial federal shutdown three weeks ago. Now it&#8217;s the Democrats turn for a fright. The president&#8217;s tanking poll numbers and the surge in concern over the beleaguered ObamaCare rollout will push more moderate Democrats to conclude that their best path is away from the president and his law. Shutdowns are temporary. ObamaCare is forever.


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## healthmyths (Nov 1, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> blackhawk said:
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> > How about my right to decide for myself  what type of insurance I need or want? How about letting me decide if the insurance I have or want is crappy or not? Despite what the President and other's in the government might think I'm more than capable of making my own decisions in matters like this I can decide if something is crappy or substandard on my own thank you very fucking much.
> ...



Better then that!
Why don't we at pre-school TEACH the concept of practical Golden Rule.. i.e. do unto others as you would have others do unto you?
Or do you like most ignorant people think that is a "religious" concept??

For example... rather then OBEYING A Speed limit out of FEAR of getting caught... why not explain why the speed limit was what it was i.e. the laws
of physics being you can't stop a car going 40 mph in a 20mph zone fast enough if a kid darts out from behind a car!

"GOLDEN RULE"  Don't drive at a limit that would put someone else in danger if you wouldn't want them to put you in danger.

Or another for you people that still don't grasp this.
In pre-school it is entirely reasonable to show how pedaling a car at a higher speed puts another kid in danger!
You see what I mean?  Kids as well as adults today have NO concept of the laws of physics in a common sense situation.

Teaching more people to think how it affects others i.e. "do unto others as you would..." would REDUCE the amount of rules and regulations, i.e.
ACA is creating 20,000 pages of new rules and regulations!  1.4 billion hours a year are spent JUST in compliance!

There IS NO logical reason for example to have MORE gun laws.. when there has been a 40% reduction in gun prosecution cases under Obama!
What good are MORE laws, regulations if the ones we have now aren't enforced?

Another common sense illustration... if someone kills another person that's a crime.  The person is dead!  So why is there additional laws applied
if the killer did so as a "hate" crime?  I.e. person killed was gay.  Why is there "hate" crimes added?  The person was killed!

But we've been so brainwashed to think EVERY EXCEPTION MUST BECOME the rule!

Using the "Golden Rule" in conjunction with common sense laws of physics with pre-schoolers will not only build more responsible adults but reduce the
need for law abiding people to have to spend more time and money and energy in compliance with billions of rules and regulations!


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## healthmyths (Nov 1, 2013)

g5000 said:


> OnePercenter said:
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> > What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
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Instead of guessing how about some simple research and following these links???

Here is what a hospital CEO said how he recoups "uncompensated expenses"
*"How do hospitals deal with the cost of the  uninsured? Like any  business, we pass it on to the paying customers.*
From PAGE 1 of this document:  http://www.ncmedicaljournal.com/wp-content/uploads/NCMJ/mar-apr-05/Yarbrough.pdf

FACT ... there is a database I've access to of the 6,000 hospitals and what they billed Medicare... here is one for example:
Florida Hospital Tampa  3100 East Fletcher Avenue  Tampa, FL  33613
_In 2011  Hospital in Tampa sent Medicare 1,362 claims for CAT scan no contrast.
            Each claim averaged $3,463, i.e. what the hospital billed Medicare... 
            The hospital's ACTUAL COSTS to perform the CAT SCAN was $57 a mark up 5,975.44% _

Now NOT all hospitals markup by 6,000%   BUT most markup easily 400% or more when billing Medicare!  
And Medicare accepts that because of EMTALA!

Other studies have estimated that the bills for all types of health care that the uninsured cannot pay  the uncompensated cost of care  is up to $73 billion a year, a significant portion of which is shifted into higher costs for Americans with insurance and their employers
Most uninsured unable to pay hospital bills according to new HHS report


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## healthmyths (Nov 1, 2013)

Solution!
Tax lawyers 10% as ACA taxes tanning salons as tanning causes cancer.. lawyers cause the $850 billion doctors attest they send to insurance companies
ALL out of fear of lawsuits!
Take the $27 billion in tax revenue and pay the premiums for the 4 million uninsured that go to the hospital registering them with the Uninsured Health Ins. Co.©
The hospitals WOULD THEN NOT be allowed to do as the CEO said pass on to paying customers.. and send the claims to UHIC©!
Then watch how quickly tort reform reduces the $850 billion defensive medicine AND reduces hospitals "padding and passing" on sometimes at 6,000%!


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


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there is a guy out here who had a pretty decent policy....it was canceled because it did not have a few provisions that the ACA said it was supposed to have......he did not want or need those provisions.....he has had his policy for years and he and his Ins Company were quite happy till this shit came along....now he said to get a new Policy with the shit he doesnt want is going to cost him a lot more.....


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## driveby (Nov 1, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> blackhawk said:
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> > How about my right to decide for myself  what type of insurance I need or want? How about letting me decide if the insurance I have or want is crappy or not? Despite what the President and other's in the government might think I'm more than capable of making my own decisions in matters like this I can decide if something is crappy or substandard on my own thank you very fucking much.
> ...



I'll see your strawman and raise you......

The speed limit signs don't say "go as fast as you want". Then when someone speeds the cop pulls them over,  writes them a ticket and says "fuck what the sign says, speed limit is 30 mph".


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## g5000 (Nov 1, 2013)

healthmyths said:


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So...no tax money is lost.

The estimates of how much is passed on to the insured vary from $37 billion to $73 billion.

We spend $2.4 TRILLION a year on healthcare.  So the uninsured are responsible for adding 1.5 to 3 percent to that amount.


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## Harry Dresden (Nov 1, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> blackhawk said:
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> > How about my right to decide for myself  what type of insurance I need or want? How about letting me decide if the insurance I have or want is crappy or not? Despite what the President and other's in the government might think I'm more than capable of making my own decisions in matters like this I can decide if something is crappy or substandard on my own thank you very fucking much.
> ...



hey dumbass.....your driving habits affects everyone on that highway, hence the need for group laws of the road.......you getting a Policy that suits your needs affects only YOU.....


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## P@triot (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


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Ah yes - *envy*. The corner stone of everything a Dumbocrat believes in.

If the "1%" paid "the same effective tax as you do" we'd have to cut their taxes by about 98%. But hey, don't ever let the facts get in the way of your false narrative.


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## P@triot (Nov 1, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> You're a perfect example of why conservatism always loses to progress.



You're a prefect example of why liberal policy always fails - believing that regressing is actually "progress"...


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## Wry Catcher (Nov 1, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
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Clear this up for me, will ya?  Is Marsha Blackburn Tweedledum and Michelle Bachmann Tweedledee, or vice versa?


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## TemplarKormac (Nov 2, 2013)




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## Quantum Windbag (Nov 2, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
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What losses due to crappy insurance? Be specific here, or admit that this whole "crappy insurance" scam is nothing but a pathetic attempt to cover up a lie.

By the way, what is the different between a pre Obamacare crappy plan with a $5,500 detectible and an official Obamacare crappy plan with a $5,500 deductible?


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## Quantum Windbag (Nov 2, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


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If she was for corporations she would be pushing Obamacare, like Obama does.


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## bripat9643 (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


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"Aren't crap" means they provide maternity coverage even if you are past child bearing age.  they also include coverage for sex change operations, drug abuse treatment, psychiatric care, birth control, abortion and a host of other things a lot of people don't need and don't want.


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## Mac1958 (Nov 2, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> 
> OR
> 
> Does this opinion of the Republican Rep. Marsha Blackburn have more to do with insurance companies ability to make higher profits from crap policies?



    [MENTION=43400]OnePercenter[/MENTION],

I guess I have three questions:

1. How do you know that insurance companies "make higher profits from crap policies"?  This may be true, but I'd like to see some empirical evidence on that.  I'm sure you have some info on that, since you brought it up.

2. I keep hearing about these "crap policies".  You must be seeing myriad data on these policies, such as deductibles, co-pays, co-insurance, schedules of benefits and premiums paid for them, and how they offer lousy coverage for the price.  Could you direct me to the evidence that these are "crap policies"?  What are examples of "crap policies" that you've seen?

3. You mention "cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill".  ACA policies have significant deductibles, some of them several thousand dollars, as well as co-pays and co-insurance.  Can you tell me precisely how these ACA policies "fully pay the bill"?

I'd just like to see some details on what appears to be the primary spin on the fact that Obama lied to us on dozens of occasions.  At the moment, I'm drowning in platitudes and generalities.

.


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## bripat9643 (Nov 2, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


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I've never had a plan with more than a $2,500 deductible.  How is someone who makes $30,000/yr ever going to pay a $5,500 deductible?


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## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> OnePercenter said:
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Despite all the current problems with the website, and a number of other problems, what bothers me is the fact that most of you cons believe there was no problem with our healthcare system before the ACA.  This simple fact is what assures me that the vast majority of you are just clueless.  

The one thing the ACA has done is helped people begin to actually understand just how expensive healthcare is and how much we are actually spending on it.  For those of you who believe you can get good insurance for $200 or $300 per month and have it cover most of your medical expenses, you are living in some fantasy world.  

We are spending over $700 per month for every single person living in this country regardless of their age or whether they are a legal resident or not.  Somebody has to pay for that.


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## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


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Generally, anyone buying a plan with such a large deductible is healthy and most likely will never hit that deductible.  If something happens in a given year and they do, then at least they are covered for the major bills.  But all of this just gets back to the point of how much healthcare actually costs in this country.  People who make $30,000 per year cannot afford to pay for all of their healthcare on their own.  It's basically impossible.  When you understand that we are paying $8500 per year per person, you can see a person making $30,000 per year can't afford that.  And what if that person is trying to support a couple of kids.  Now the healthcare costs are over $25,000 per year.  

Now we all know that person making $30,000 is not paying their full share of the $8500 or if they have kids, the $25,500.  But somebody is paying for it.  It ain't free.


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## Old Rocks (Nov 2, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


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So states this supremely wise 25 year old

Sorry kid, you obviously don't know shit from shinola. Get back to us when you have grown up.


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## bripat9643 (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> The one thing the ACA has done is helped people begin to actually understand just how expensive healthcare is and how much we are actually spending on it.  For those of you who believe you can get good insurance for $200 or $300 per month and have it cover most of your medical expenses, you are living in some fantasy world.



Yeah, they're beginning to understand that it's a whole lot more expensive under Obamacare.  Somehow we are supposed to believe they are benefiting when they have to pay twice as much for a policy with deductibles that are twice as big and co-pays that that are twice as high.


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## bripat9643 (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


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The problem with your explanation is that prior to Obamacare they could afford insurance.


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## Seawytch (Nov 2, 2013)

g5000 said:


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> 
> 
> > What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> ...



Less tax money now than before, that's how much. How much difference in tax dollars does ending funding for PBS make?

What's more expensive...finding out you have diabetes when it's time to cut your leg off or when it can be treated?


----------



## NLT (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


>



I love Texans!!! check out the cars tag.


----------



## zeke (Nov 2, 2013)

TemplarKormac said:


>





Hey that pretty cool. Put one up that says;


IF REPUBLICANS REALLY WANTED ALL AMERICANS TO HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE, THEY WOULD HAVE  COME UP WITH A FUCKING PLAN THAT MADE MORE  SENSE THAN OBAMACARE.


----------



## Darkwind (Nov 2, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> 
> OR
> 
> ...


Oh goodie.  You get to get others to pay for your insurance and we ALL will still have to pay for those who use the emergency room as a walk in clinic.

All you have done is doubled the amount everyone has to pay.

Freedom is not an exercise in rhetoric.


----------



## zeke (Nov 2, 2013)

Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?

Are you all deadbeats waiting for someone else to pay your medical bills? Or so poor that the idea of paying for something scares you to death? Well them, use the Repub health care plan and hurry up and die.


----------



## Darkwind (Nov 2, 2013)

zeke said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


Why?  The law solves a problem that did not exist for more than 1 or 2 million people who could have just taken responsibility for themselves like everyone does.

If people want healthcare coverage, they'll get it.  If they don't, then they don't.  If they can't afford it, then alter your life to the point where you can afford it.

Because guess what.  Those who couldn't afford it are now not given the choice.  They pay for it or pay a fine.

So much compassion..........


----------



## Darkwind (Nov 2, 2013)

zeke said:


> Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> 
> Are you all deadbeats waiting for someone else to pay your medical bills? Or so poor that the idea of paying for something scares you to death? Well them, use the Repub health care plan and hurry up and die.


I guess you are a moron.

I pay for My health Insurance.  I do NOT want to pay for yours or anyone else.  Not a hard concept to comprehend.


----------



## Seawytch (Nov 2, 2013)

g5000 said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> ...



Covering the Unisured Will Help You Too

[...]_Uninsured individuals end up getting the most costly care possible - in the emergency room. It costs $91, for example, to treat a patient with strep throat in a doctor's office. Treating that same patient in the emergency room costs more than three times as much - $321.

For the most part, uninsured people aren't able to pay for the care they receive. Hospitals and doctors receive minimal compensation from the government for this care, but it doesn't come close to matching the expense. To make up the difference, they pass the rest of the costs on to you and me by charging more to those with insurance.

According to a study by the New America Foundation, those extra costs add up, to an extra *$1,185 per year *for the average California family with health insurance. That's about 10% of what they're spending on health insurance in all._

Twelve hundred bucks a year on average in CA.


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> ...



They both knew you lots of americans would have their current health insurance plan cancelled while the genius messiah had no clue ........  

So clear this one up for me, will ya? Is Obama tweedledum and Harry Reid tweedleliar or vice versa? ........


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

Old Rocks said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



He's just a rightwinger being a rightwinger.  They have no interest in facts that upset them.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



March 27,2007 ?


----------



## Seawytch (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > g5000 said:
> ...



The FACTS have not changed.


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

zeke said:


> Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> 
> Are you all deadbeats waiting for someone else to pay your medical bills? Or so poor that the idea of paying for something scares you to death? Well them, use the Repub health care plan and hurry up and die.



The attack on employer plans, which was supposed to take place this year as well,  conveniently comes after the 2014 midterms. You ain't seen nothing yet, fucking dolt.......


----------



## zeke (Nov 2, 2013)

Darkwind said:


> zeke said:
> 
> 
> > Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> ...



No dude you are the moron. Really. 

The premiums that you and I pay have to cover the health services provided to those without health insurance. That means you and I pay more than we should or need to. All so a person can shun their responsibility to provide their own health coverage. Then they just walk into the ER and receive the most EXPENSIVE health care we have to offer.

Are you really so stupid that you are good with that idea? You paying for coverage (within your premiums) for someone else? WOW dude. You gotta be dumb to agree with that.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



Sure they have.


----------



## Seawytch (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



Then by all means, point out which ones. I'm betting the only one that has is the *cost *of that strep throat visit.


----------



## Darkwind (Nov 2, 2013)




----------



## zeke (Nov 2, 2013)

driveby said:


> zeke said:
> 
> 
> > Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> ...



Sure. You wanna include a link that backs up your claim? Or would that be to hard.
Do you have health insurance? Or are you a dead beat as well? Just curious.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



Ah...... you don't really know the facts but are putting them forth as unchanged.

Got it.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

driveby said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > blackhawk said:
> ...



You're ignoring what the other poster said.  He claimed that the individual is better at making decisions than is the government.

The government decides how fast you can legally drive in any given area.  You, and the other poster want the individual to decide that because you think every individual is smarter than the government.

Just the fact that you think that proves that you're not. lol


----------



## Seawytch (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



Very pathetic deflection from your inability to point out any factual inaccuracies in the posted article.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

The issue remains. Americans like me were happy with our healthcare coverage. Government intervention for me was not needed. Others maybe, but not me. For that, I'm bitter

-Geaux


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

Ironically, now, more people BY FAR would lose their health insurance coverage if the GOP somehow succeeded in repealing Obamacare than if the law remains.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



It is 6 year old opinion from an insurance company exec you posted as fact.

California has Obamacare / exchanges now. 

Apples to oranges.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> The issue remains. Americans like me were happy with our healthcare coverage. Government intervention for me was not needed. Others maybe, but not me. For that, I'm bitter
> 
> -Geaux



Isn't it an amazing phenomenon, USMB I mean...

...it appears that every single rightwinger on USMB has suffered some sort of grievous harm to the state of their healthcare coverage because of the ACA.

That's an amazing cluster that defies all the laws of probability.


----------



## Seawytch (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...




It is a fact that the uninsured and underinsured cost those of us with insurance more. We pay higher premiums and pay $6 for an aspirin in the hospital to cover those costs. In 2007 it was costing the average insured Californian like me $1200 a year. Since I'm what you might call "overinsured", it was probably costing me a touch more.

And yes, now we have the affordable care act and the uninsured will have insurance. Costs will decrease, deficits will reduce.


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



People like me are smart enough to know not to drive 55 mph though a school zone, residential area, etc.... People like you are morons and need the government to tell you the rate of speed you can travel on any road........


----------



## Seawytch (Nov 2, 2013)

Too bad for the stupid states that didn't take the Medicaid expansion.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> And yes, now we have the affordable care act and the uninsured will have insurance. Costs will decrease, deficits will reduce.



Costs decrease when demand increases ?


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > The issue remains. Americans like me were happy with our healthcare coverage. Government intervention for me was not needed. Others maybe, but not me. For that, I'm bitter
> ...



It's amazing that you either:

A) Can't admit Obama and the dems blatantly lied and deceived the american people.

or 

B) Don't give a shit that they blatantly lied and deceived the american people.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > The issue remains. Americans like me were happy with our healthcare coverage. Government intervention for me was not needed. Others maybe, but not me. For that, I'm bitter
> ...



76% increase. $168 a month. That is painful for me....

-Geaux


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 2, 2013)

The Collective has been fed their instructions: Obama is liberating you from your "Crappy insurance"


----------



## Seawytch (Nov 2, 2013)

_During congressional hearings with Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., made an interesting argument that some Americans dont want quality health insurance.  Some people like to drive a Ford and not a Ferrari, Blackburn asserted.  But that begs the question: *What kind of Ford?*

As early as 1972, there were reports that when a Ford Pinto was involved in a low-speed collision, the car would spontaneously burst into flames.  According to a 1977 investigation by Mother Jones magazine, Ford was aware of the problem  resulting from a flaw in the gas tank design  but instead of paying to recall and redesign the car, Ford decided it would be cheaper to pay for the lawsuits.  Ultimately, at least 27 people and as many as 180 people died as a result of Pinto fires.  But *it took the government forcing Ford to recall the Pinto* for the problem to actually be solved.[...]

A great example comes from Deborah Cavallaro, who has been making the rounds on television complaining about her current insurance plan being canceled.  Cavallaro had not looked into her other, new options under Obamacare until a Los Angeles Times reporter called.  Together, they looked at Cavallaros options  and found a silver plan for Cavallaro that would cost slightly more in her monthly premium but save her tons in terms of her annual deductible and out-of-pocket costs as well as doctor visit expenses.  Plus, thanks to Obamacare, this plan would not be subject to the annual payment caps or preexisting condition clauses that have been exploding in the faces of consumers for decades.  After all, its important to remember that in 2009, most Americans were not very satisfied with their insurance plans.  People wanted better options, and now, thanks to Obamacare, theyve got em!​_
A congresswoman defends Americans' right to awful health insurance -- and shamefully misleads the public


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> _During congressional hearings with Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., made an interesting argument that some Americans don&#8217;t want quality health insurance.  &#8220;Some people like to drive a Ford and not a Ferrari,&#8221; Blackburn asserted.  But that begs the question: *What kind of Ford?*
> 
> As early as 1972, there were reports that when a Ford Pinto was involved in a low-speed collision, the car would spontaneously burst into flames.  According to a 1977 investigation by Mother Jones magazine, Ford was aware of the problem &#8212; resulting from a flaw in the gas tank design &#8212; but instead of paying to recall and redesign the car, Ford decided it would be cheaper to pay for the lawsuits.  Ultimately, at least 27 people and as many as 180 people died as a result of Pinto fires.  But *it took the government forcing Ford to recall the Pinto* for the problem to actually be solved.[...]
> 
> ...



The definition of projection .......... 

Yeah, it was definitely Blackburn who has been shamefully misleading the public....


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> _During congressional hearings with Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., made an interesting argument that some Americans dont want quality health insurance.  Some people like to drive a Ford and not a Ferrari, Blackburn asserted.  But that begs the question: *What kind of Ford?*
> 
> As early as 1972, there were reports that when a Ford Pinto was involved in a low-speed collision, the car would spontaneously burst into flames.  According to a 1977 investigation by Mother Jones magazine, Ford was aware of the problem  resulting from a flaw in the gas tank design  but instead of paying to recall and redesign the car, Ford decided it would be cheaper to pay for the lawsuits.  Ultimately, at least 27 people and as many as 180 people died as a result of Pinto fires.  But *it took the government forcing Ford to recall the Pinto* for the problem to actually be solved.[...]
> 
> ...



A Pinto was sold as something it wasn't.    Not a good faith transaction.

Insurance is a written contract with full coverage / limit disclosure by law.   The consumer knows what he is getting up front.

Apples to oranges.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



totally wrong.  the poor will pay nothing for their insurance,  those who choose not to buy will pay a penalty that is smaller than the premium would be, and will still receive treatment.

those who pay for their insurance will be funding those who do not---------exactly what is happening today and has been for years.

the difference is that those who pay will also have to fund a huge govt beaurocracy under obamacare that did not exist before.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



But but costs will go down as artificially subsidized demand rises.


----------



## Camp (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > _During congressional hearings with Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., made an interesting argument that some Americans don&#8217;t want quality health insurance.  &#8220;Some people like to drive a Ford and not a Ferrari,&#8221; Blackburn asserted.  But that begs the question: *What kind of Ford?*
> ...



It was Rep. Marsha Blackburn, the topic of this thread, that made the original comparison to the purchase of a car and health insurance.
What do you mean by "Insurance is a written contract with full coverage...."


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> ...



You have choice. 

What you don't have is the "right" to rip off your customers.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

Camp said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



Blackburn made the Pinto comparison on _cost vs appointments._

The _cost vs appointments _ of an insurance contract is spelled out in the policy.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> [q
> 
> A Pinto was sold as something it wasn't.    Not a good faith transaction.
> 
> ...



That would work well if we were all contract lawyers and fully understood the six pages of fine print that are specifically designed to give insurance companies a weasel out from doing what they promised to do to start with.  

Most people buy an insurance policy, they expect to get treatment when they get sick. 

They don't expect to be told their cancer is a pre-existing condition because they had a mole removed when they were 7.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



When a private company rips off their customers they lose business.

When the government does it the customers have no recourse. They just have to bend over and take it.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> [
> 
> Blackburn made the Pinto comparison on _cost vs appointments._
> 
> The _cost vs appointments _ of an insurance contract is spelled out in the policy.



Which again, are written by CONTRACT LAWYERS specifically so people can't understand them.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



Right because if you buy a policy with a cap and the cap is reached you are being ripped off.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Actually, they have a recourse call voting.  

And the problem with the customers they lose is that they really don't want those customers back after they get sick... 

The business model of an insurance company is to sell as many policies as possible while paying out as few claims as possible.  That's how it works.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



Who is being ripped off when both sides have the oppportunity to read the insurance contract?

insurance companies average around 5% profit,  mutual companies make no profit.  

Big pharma makes 35%,   software companies make 25%----so who is doing the rip offs?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Pretty much.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



I, like most self-accountable people,  know what my coverage is and the limits of my policy.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



JoeB's highest aspiration in life is to be a ward of the state


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Got it like when you buy batteries and use all their benefit in your flashlight, you are being ripped off.   You are simply a victim because of what you agreed to and paid for.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Sorry, but voting doesn't always solve it. If you have the electoral system rigged, and the media on the take, voters won't know what the truth is.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



do you understand that the insurance industry is regulated in every state?   do you understand that "for profit" insurance companies have to rebate excess profits in the form of lower rates or direct rebates?   do you understand that mutual insurance companies make no profit?


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> do you understand that the insurance industry is regulated in every state?   do you understand that "for profit" insurance companies have to rebate excess profits in the form of lower rates or direct rebates?   do you understand that mutual insurance companies make no profit?



Understanding that collapses their reality.


----------



## Camp (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...


Does that mean that the policy could be the worst policy in the world and say so in 9 pages of small print it qualifies as "full coverage"?


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)




----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

There are two good things in the ACA
1. insurance companies have to take people with pre-existing conditions
2. no lifetime maximum payouts.

Keep those and throw out the rest.

then let the govt buy policies for the few million that have no coverage


problem solved and trillions of dollars saved.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

Camp said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Camp said:
> ...



I have never read 9 pages of small print on an insurance policy and I have known the exact limits of my coverage my entire life.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



I think those figures are misleading. 

As far as both sides having a chance to read the contract. The insurance company has a whole team of lawyers to read every aspect of the contract and anticipate every contigency.. 
vs. 

you the consumer, who has to trust the document that they've written serves you.


----------



## candycorn (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


>



Gee, another "I'm a victim" post from  muddy....grow up.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

candycorn said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



Well. all kidding aside, if that's true... Houston, we have a problem

-Geaux


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> As far as both sides having a chance to read the contract. The insurance company has a whole team of lawyers to read every aspect of the contract and anticipate every contigency..
> vs.
> 
> you the consumer, who has to trust the document that they've written serves you.



Joe is such a victim he can't read or understand his coverage.

Like all those people who couldn't understand their ARM mortgages they signed onto.


----------



## candycorn (Nov 2, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> 
> OR
> 
> ...



She's correct.

Obama lied about you being able to keep the insurance you want; even if you're getting the shaft by keeping it.  

That is your right as an American. 

New Castle United 1, Chelsea 0 in the 68th minute.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> There are two good things in the ACA
> 1. insurance companies have to take people with pre-existing conditions
> 2. no lifetime maximum payouts.
> 
> ...



The problem is, the rest of those don't work if you don't have an individual mandate. 

Otherwise people just buy when they get sick.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Obama lied about you being able to keep the insurance you want; even if you're getting the shaft by keeping it.



Ah yes the old *Obama had to lie to you so he could save you from yourself defense.*


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > There are two good things in the ACA
> ...



Which is what's going to happen with ACA

-Geaux


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > As far as both sides having a chance to read the contract. The insurance company has a whole team of lawyers to read every aspect of the contract and anticipate every contigency..
> ...



Guy, I deal with contracts all day professionally. Contracts ONLY work when everyone involved goes in with honest intent.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> There are two good things in the ACA
> 1. insurance companies have to take people with pre-existing conditions
> 2. no lifetime maximum payouts.
> 
> ...



And at what income level are you going to set the government policy buying at?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > There are two good things in the ACA
> ...




How about we let people opt out of the mandate, but we then give the insurance companies an exemption from having to later cover anyone who opted out.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > There are two good things in the ACA
> ...



that would be up to congress.   where would you set it?


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



are you then going to refuse medical care to a person who opts out because he can't buy insurance and buy food for his family?


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

candycorn said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> ...



Why lie about it at all?........


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



are you now claiming that insurance companies are inherently dishonest?


----------



## candycorn (Nov 2, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Mudwhistle posted it...no danger of it being true.


----------



## candycorn (Nov 2, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Starting next year, you will have a long grace period between purchase and use.  So, as always, your prediction is not going to come true.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



Um, yeah, actually, I am.  

You've obviously never had to fight with one to get an operation.  I have.  And after it was all said and done, they got my employer to fire me.  

Left up to me, we'd go to single payer like Canada, but if we have to deal with the insurance leeches, at least we keep some salt on hand.


----------



## candycorn (Nov 2, 2013)

driveby said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



I'd like to think that he believed there would be a grandfather clause in the ACA as to where if you had a policy you liked that didn't meet the minimum requirements of the ACA and only covered bullet removal (for the sake of argument), you could keep it.  

But he never said that to the best of my knowledge.  

Thus it was a lie.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



wrong, new ACA policies are effective on 1/1/14.   the first premium payment will be due on 1/1/14.


----------



## Camp (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



What difference does it make how many pages of small print legalese is contained in a policy, and for that matter, what difference does it make that you have the education and intelligence to understand it? Not everyone does. You used the term "full coverage" and I'm asking what that means in the context that you used it. It's not a trick question. It can however be used as a trick term to imply that any written contract for health insurance is somehow "full coverage".


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Sure looks true looking at your map. Nothing but blue in the largest part of the county.
Only place Romney got any votes was in the outlaying areas.
Just sayin.........

Btw, when a district votes 540-0 something is wrong here folks.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


>



This is why you're a laughingstock around here.  And the best example of modern American conservatism USMB has to offer

UNITED STATES PRESIDENT/VICE PRESIDENT
          Vote for not more than  1
              (WITH 1077 OF 1077 PRECINCTS COUNTED)
           Stewart Alexander/Alex Mendoza (SOC)  .       220     .03
           Richard Duncan/Ricky Johnson .  .  .  .       621     .10
           Virgil Goode/Jim Clymer (CON).  .  .  .       534     .08
           Gary Johnson/James P. Gray (LIB).  .  .     3,448     .53
* Barack Obama/Joe Biden (DEM) .  .  .  .   447,273   69.32
           Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan (REP)  .  .  .  .   190,660   29.55*           Jill Stein/Cheri Honkala (GRE)  .  .  .     1,564     .24
           WRITE IN.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .       942     .15

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/pdf_bo...62012FinalAmendedofficialResultsbyContest.HTM


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Told you Joe couldn't understand his coverage.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I don't know about your personal experience.  But I will give you two examples that I know of personally.

1. a 35 year old female with no insurance and MS got a double lung transplant at Ochsner hospital and the entire cost was covered by medicaid and private charities

2.  a 40 year old male with no insurance and colon cancer got an operation to remove the cancer, install a colostomy, and then reverse the colostomy when he had healed.  again, the entire cost was paid by medicaid and private charities.

Canadians are fed up with their socialized single payer medicine and are moving back to privately run clinics and co-ops,  or they cross the border into the USA for treatment.   The NHS in the UK is a miserable failure, it is bankrupting that nation and providing terrible care.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



You only need to be covered for nine months out of 2014 to satisfy the mandate.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



Actually, you're the joke. 

Your link goes to a tally list that has no official heading, no cross reference, nothing. Just a list printed in pdf form with no qualifiers or links to official sites. 

It could easily be total bullshit.......just like my posted pic which I cannot vouch for.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



Ok,  so a person whose policy has been cancelled can go uninsured for the first 3 months of 2014----------what a wonderful deal----------thanks barry


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 2, 2013)

Well.. Had my fill here. Time to clean up the Shovelhead for a put to the local mountains. Mid-70's to low 80's today in Ventura County CA

Late-
Geaux


----------



## Darkwind (Nov 2, 2013)

zeke said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > zeke said:
> ...


They can go fuck themselves.  How hard is that to comprehend you moron?

I cannot dumb it down any more to help you understand.

YOU ARE SUPPORTING THE ENSLAVEMENT OF 300 MILLION PEOPLE!


----------



## candycorn (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Nothing is wrong here except for your lie about Romney and others not getting a single vote in Cuyahoga county.  Do you hate blacks that much?


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

candycorn said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



It wasn't my lie. I simply posted a pic from the internet. If it was a lie it was their lie. 

BTW, what does this have to do with blacks?

If you look at this map it states clearly that at least one precinct, maybe more, had zero votes for Romney, while in the precincts that Romney supposedly carried Obama still got votes. That is normal. What is abnormal is that Romney got zero votes in the largest voting precincts.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



The Cuyahoga County board of elections is not an official organization?

Look, everyone here knows you're being a douche because you think it's funny and clever,

but you've worn out the joke.  Move on.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

Darkwind said:


> zeke said:
> 
> 
> > Darkwind said:
> ...



You should move to a country that has no taxes that go to the healthcare of others.  You are free to go.  That's your constitutional right.


----------



## CrusaderFrank (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


>



This is why Voter ID is the Kiss of Death for the Democrat Party


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Obama didn't cancel the insurance policy,  the company did.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



So you admit to violating the rules of 'politics' by posting off-topic 'bullshit'?  

Why would you do that? (the posting, not the admission)


----------



## blackhawk (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> driveby said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



You seem to think the rest of us aren't smart enough to decide certain things for ourselves just because you need or want mommy and daddy government to decide everything for you does not mean the rest of us need or want that. In many ways the individual is smarter than the government I know of no individual who has run up 17 trillion in debt and could not set up a website.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Nothing in your pdf says where the tallies came from. No links to cross reference to check for accuracy. 

That shit may fly when it comes to government, but in the real world it's bogus until you can prove it. Nothing is notarized or certified in your amateur posting, and for that matter, nothing in the pic I posted is notarized or certified. So move the fuck on bud.

BTW, an election board can be easily bought or co-opted if you have trillions at your disposal, or the power of the Justice Department willing to sue on a moments notice. So, anything those corrupt assholes say, I can say with full confidence that it is questionable at best.


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > The one thing the ACA has done is helped people begin to actually understand just how expensive healthcare is and how much we are actually spending on it.  For those of you who believe you can get good insurance for $200 or $300 per month and have it cover most of your medical expenses, you are living in some fantasy world.
> ...



See, you're missing something here.  We're not spending more on healthcare because of Obamacare.  Some will pay more and some will pay less.  We are just moving around who is paying what.  How we are doing that might be questionable.  

If we made people pay for insurance strictly based on actuarial tables, a young person could probably get insurance for $25 per month while a 60 year old would need to pay $1500 per month.  The fact is that the vast majority of people become ill when they get older compared to when they are younger.  Most costs associated with being younger come in the form of childbirth, pediatric care, and contraception.  Outside of that, costs are minimal on the large scale.  The problem is that 60 year olds cannot afford $1500 per month.  We are seeing this now as may are finding $600 per month to be way out of their budgets.


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > bripat9643 said:
> ...



Yes, because they were being subsidized by someone else.  Here is the thing; you cons all want everyone to pay their own way and be responsible, and then when you find out how much it actually costs to do so, you cry foul.  The ACA did not make healthcare more expensive.  In fact, and we have evidence of this, healthcare spending has increased by the smallest amount in over 60 years, for the past three years.  Sometimes you have to look at the numbers realistically.


----------



## Mac1958 (Nov 2, 2013)

Mac1958 said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> ...





Perhaps someone else can answer these reasonable questions?

.


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

zeke said:


> Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> 
> Are you all deadbeats waiting for someone else to pay your medical bills? Or so poor that the idea of paying for something scares you to death? Well them, use the Repub health care plan and hurry up and die.



It amazes me that once they stop receiving subsidies and have to pay the full cost of their own insurance, then all of a sudden they no longer believe in self-reliance and paying their own way.  Healthcare spending isn't increasing; the costs are just being moved around a bit.  The only hope is that this actually wakes some of them up to the fact that we are spending way too much on healthcare and need to find a better way that actually reduces costs while keeping people protected.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > auditor0007 said:
> ...



Wrong,  everyone who is paying will be paying more, and everyone will be getting a poorer quality of medical care.

Someone has to pay for the huge new govt beaurocracy that will have to "administer" this disaster.


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

Darkwind said:


> zeke said:
> 
> 
> > Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> ...



Until you become unemployed or start on Medicare.  Then everyone will be helping to pay your way.   If we didn't have Medicare and you had to pay for your own health insurance, by the time you hit 75 you would be paying $3000 per month for insurance.


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> It amazes me that once they stop receiving subsidies and have to pay the full cost of their own insurance, then all of a sudden they no longer believe in self-reliance and paying their own way.



Employer provided healthcare is not a subsidy.

It is an earned benefit.


----------



## driveby (Nov 2, 2013)

Mac1958 said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



Your question have not been feed into the New York Times/Democrat Party filter yet. Give them a few days to come up with their nonsensical, disingenuous talking points......


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> zeke said:
> 
> 
> > Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> ...





You are correct about one thing---ACA is not about medical care.   It is about socializing the country and wealth redistribution.

Why won't you on the left admit that truth?


----------



## OODA_Loop (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> Until you become unemployed or start on Medicare.  Then everyone will be helping to pay your way.



Paid for and into it my entire working life.

"Everyone" doesn't help = the problem.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > zeke said:
> ...



medicare premiums were taken from our paychecks, without our permission, for years.   we already paid for it.


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> Too bad for the stupid states that didn't take the Medicaid expansion.



I would imagine that these states that decided against Medicaid expansion are the ones that will see the biggest jumps in premiums for those who do pay for their insurance.  Those without insurance or Medicaid will still go to the ER for their healthcare.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > Too bad for the stupid states that didn't take the Medicaid expansion.
> ...



just like they do now and did before ACA.    ACA solves nothing,  it makes everything worse.

where do you think the money comes from to pay for people on medicaid?   Obama's stash?


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


>



See the absolutely stupid shit you idiots believe. Of course, most of the cons on USMB believe stupid shit like this.  It's no wonder nothing any of you say can be taken seriously.

STATE RESULTS:
President
Senate
House
Overall Results100.0% Reporting
Candidate	Party	% Popular Vote	Popular Vote	Electoral Vote
Winner B. Obama (i)	Dem	50.1%	 2,697,260	18
M. Romney	GOP	48.2%	 2,593,779	0
G. Johnson	Lib	0.9%	 47,287	0
J. Stein	Grn	0.3%	 17,860	0
R. Duncan	Una	0.2%	 12,148	0
V. Goode	CST	0.1%	 7,883	0
S. Alexander	Soc	0.1%	 2,873	0
Key: Incumbent (i)
County Results
County	Candidate	Party	% Popular Vote	Popular Vote

Cuyahoga
100.0% Reporting
B. Obama (i)	Dem	68.8%	 420,953
M. Romney	GOP	30.2%	 184,475
G. Johnson	Lib	0.5%	 3,281
J. Stein	Grn	0.2%	 1,490
R. Duncan	Una	0.1%	 591
V. Goode	CST	0.1%	 513
S. Alexander	Soc	0.0%	 209
Darke

Ohio Election Results 2012 - Map, County Results, Live Updates - POLITICO.com


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Nope. Obama has been caught numerous times committing fraud. In this case we can prove that he told a complete falsehood to get elected. The only defense he seems to have is that he didn't know anything about it, and that even if he did lie (which he won't admit to because it's an impeachable offense, ie fraud) you're better off than you were before ACA. Sorry, but that doesn't fly. 

Let's assume that no president can be held accountable for the actions of anyone in his administration. If this is the case then no president can be held accountable for anything their Administration does because he claims he didn't know anything. Taking that into account Bush could not be attacked for not knowing whether or not they would find chemical weapons in Iraq, which they did, just not in the quantities you and the rest of your cohorts demanded. 

The problem is, nobody in his Administration seems to know anything. So I figure that means somebody is lying. It's only a matter of logic. My position being logical and your position being illogical and a rationalization if not a total fabrication. And yet you dare to accuse me of the same. Somehow that rings pretty hollow taking into account the current circumstances.


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Just a little advice to you; It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



And my point is just about every lib on this site still believes Obama and assumes that he was telling the truth when it has been proved beyond a doubt that he lied about this and quite possibly about many other things, some things that are yet to be revealed.


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



That all comes down to the argument of whether or not you believe we as a society have a responsibility to see to it that everyone receives adequate healthcare regardless of their ability to pay.  I happen to believe everyone should have adequate healthcare, even if they cannot pay for it all themselves.  The US is one of the very few, if not the only industrialized country in the world, that does not believe that, at least up to this point.


----------



## auditor0007 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> auditor0007 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Ah, I see now.  Obama lied about the election results.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

It's amazing the literal gall of you liberals.

Somebody posts a pic that you disagree with and you fly off the handle. But when the president was caught red-handed lying to us about his signature piece of legislation all you can do is make excuses for him.......excuses that were supplied to you by his "We Know Nothing" administration.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > auditor0007 said:
> ...



No, the election was rigged. If he claimed it wasn't then he'd be lying.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

Katzndogz said:


> Why didn't health care overhaul address the single largest driver of health care increases, tort reform?



Because the Demo Party is in the back pocket of the Trial Lawyer's Association.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

Did or did not Obama lie when he said this:




*Remarks of President Barack Obama  As Prepared for Delivery

American Medical Association

Chicago, Illinois

June 15, 2009
*

*"What are not legitimate concerns are those being put forward claiming a public option is somehow a Trojan horse for a single-payer system. Ill be honest. There are countries where a single-payer system may be working. But I believe  and Ive even taken some flak from members of my own party for this belief  that it is important for us to build on our traditions here in the United States. So, when you hear the naysayers claim that Im trying to bring about government-run health care, know this  they are not telling the truth.

What I am trying to do  and what a public option will help do  is put affordable health care within reach for millions of Americans. And to help ensure that everyone can afford the cost of a health care option in our Exchange, we need to provide assistance to families who need it. That way, there will be no reason at all for anyone to remain uninsured." ** - Barack Obama*​
Obama: ?If You Like Your Doctor, You Can Keep Your Doctor? - Washington Wire - WSJ


----------



## boedicca (Nov 2, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> 
> OR
> 
> ...




Clearly, the concept of Liberty and the content of The Constitution elude you.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



Well, if that's the case I'd STFU if I were you, especially if you want to talk about supporting Obama's lies. 

What you or any other lib thinks about me doesn't bother me one single iota.

My friends know where I'm coming from and even if they thought I was being foolish it wouldn't matter to me.


----------



## boedicca (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> Just a little advice to you; It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.




Kudos on your self-awareness.  It's a shame you lack the discipline to act on it.


----------



## Mac1958 (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> zeke said:
> 
> 
> > Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> ...




Funny, I don't remember Obama saying that those dozens of times he said we could keep our plans if we like them and that we would be saving $2500 per year.

Maybe I missed that speech.

.


----------



## healthmyths (Nov 2, 2013)

zeke said:


> Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> 
> Are you all deadbeats waiting for someone else to pay your medical bills? Or so poor that the idea of paying for something scares you to death? Well them, use the Repub health care plan and hurry up and die.



There is almost universal health care NOW in the USA... IF you are honest and agree:
1) there never were 46 million that wanted, or were legal or knew but never registered with Medicaid.
    See 10 million of 46 are not legal.. Obama admits!  14 million didn't know they were eligible for Medicaid and all they need to do is register. But 
    why were 18 million under 34 making over $50k that paid their own medical expenses included with Obama's over exaggerated wrong 46 million?
2) Because Obama STUPIDLY doesn't realize we already have national health care for all but 4 million that need and want insurance!

If the idiot understood how insurance worked he wouldn't have TORN our country apart with this 20,000 pages of rules and regulations known as ACA!
He wouldn't be taxing tanning salons but taxing lawyers that cause $850 billion a year in defensive medicine costs.. the biggest driver of health care costs!

So the reason is obvious!
He wants the USA destroyed!  Pure and simple!
Why else does he want to bankrupt companies?  Have 90 million out of work!  Sanction the EPA to destroy 8 million jobs!
There is NOT one constructive act that Obama has put forth but ALL are destructive!
ACA destroying health care!
EPA destroying businesses!
You name ONE single piece of executive actions that have been positive for the USA!


----------



## Wry Catcher (Nov 2, 2013)

NLT said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



Classy.  Is that photo taken in an Elementary School Parking lot or at a church?


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

zeke said:


> Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> 
> Are you all deadbeats waiting for someone else to pay your medical bills? Or so poor that the idea of paying for something scares you to death? Well them, use the Repub health care plan and hurry up and die.



Your point is a bit confused.

Group plans aren't free. You have to contribute to them.

Even those of us who work for the government are experiencing ever increasing premiums taken out of our pay. I've lost $200 per month to my health plan thanks to ACA requirements, and it seems like every time I turn around they're covering less and less. 

Tri-care, which I pay for out of my military pension, covers nothing, as long as I have other insurance, which I pay for out of my paycheck from the government at my job at the DoD. 

Somebody tell my why watching my paycheck evaporate right before my eyes would give me a happy secure feeling?


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

healthmyths said:


> zeke said:
> 
> 
> > Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> ...



You nailed it and all the libs ran from the thread like a bunch of sheep


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

Wry Catcher said:


> NLT said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Right-clicking on it might give you the answer, or maybe not.


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> zeke said:
> 
> 
> > Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> ...


Obama said you must ..."have skin in the game..." as he and the Congress escape that which they impose upon the unwashed working class...


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

The T said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > zeke said:
> ...





right "you the common people MUST sign up for it,  but we the ruling elite do not"  

Can you say dictatorial monarchy?


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

blackhawk said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > driveby said:
> ...



You honestly know no one who doesn't have the skills to program a website?  

As for debt?


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

The T said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > zeke said:
> ...



His idea of "strengthening the Middle-class" is forcing them into bankruptcy.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



That graph is old as shit. It also shows a downward trend at the end. What is is now?


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



can you post a similar chart showing the rise in national debt during obama's 5 year reign?

10 trillion to 17 trillion.   by 2016 he will have spent more money than anyone in the history of the world, and the USA will be over 20 trillion in debt.  

Do you silly libs actually think that is something to be proud of?


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


Since he's been on a perpetual campaign...he has said he wants to save the middle class... as he destroys it...Good point...He isn't conflicted....he's a liar...and he does these things by design...his daddy must be proud....his daddy and mother hated this country...as does he.

Far too many have bought his lies...even though it affects them too...but then they are good servants of their master.


----------



## boedicca (Nov 2, 2013)

NYC's chart shows that individuals are taking responsibility to lower their debt levels, a type of discipline that is totally alien to Obama.


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


Political rulers versus everyone else.


----------



## Redfish (Nov 2, 2013)

The T said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > The T said:
> ...



the defective liberal gene is very powerful.   It blocks rational thought and common sense.


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


 
Yep. It clouds their judgment, impedes their common sense, and erects a _self-imposed_ wall to their own individual liberty.


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> 
> OR
> 
> ...


 
"_I'll take what is TRUE LIBERTY for $1,000 Alex..."_


----------



## blackhawk (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



No I know no one who with three years and billions of dollars could not set up a website.


----------



## Vox (Nov 2, 2013)

you expect leftards to think for themselves? LOL

they are just parroting the newest talking points lies.

if they would be really soooooo concerned about policies - why would they tax the standard PPO employer-based plan one by 40% starting from 2018?

but do not expect our leftards to have any logical thinking.
because they do not think.

and they expect that we don't know that their lies about "better policies" which means mandatory OB coverage for those who don't need them are  just  spreading the cost for those whom they expect to cover - the illegals with anchor babies


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnLa1BvtaxM]Ronald Reagan Speaks out Against Socialized Medicine - YouTube[/ame]

I don't expect liberals to watch this. Anyone who wants to know the truth will.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

Remember how Democrats cheered for the failure of Social Security reform?

Democrats and Republicans have up till now considered SS and Medicare their private little slush fund. They didn't want to see that go away, and the Democrats, in a despicable display of partisanship, applauded their obstruction of reforms.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mqSXsNJzRM]Democrats Applauding Their Own Obstructionism - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Ronald Reagan Speaks out Against Socialized Medicine - YouTube
> 
> I don't expect liberals to watch this. Anyone who wants to know the truth will.


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

blackhawk said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > blackhawk said:
> ...


Yep. Their problem is they used outdated 1990's webtech, and expected it to fly with new hardware, and to boot? Expect it to communicate with other sites that are more up to date.

This was a failure since conception...and I expect it was planned that way...bilk more out of the taxpayer.


----------



## WelfareQueen (Nov 2, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> 
> OR
> 
> ...




*Choice = Good.

One Size Fits All Socialism = Bad

*


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > blackhawk said:
> ...



lol, you're retarded.  So Americans have reversed their indebtedness since Obama became president?

One more feather in his cap.


----------



## WelfareQueen (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...




*Choice = Good.

One Size Fits All Socialism = Bad*


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



I think you're lying. 

I see no proof in this graph. You'll need one that covers his presidency, not everyone else.  Besides.....everything that happened in his first term was Bush's fault.


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## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


 Yep...


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## Quantum Windbag (Nov 2, 2013)

bripat9643 said:


> Quantum Windbag said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



Magic money?


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Nov 2, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



What bothers me is that you keep spouting this despite people pointing out to you that all the problems you keep whinging about are the result of government policies you support.


----------



## The T (Nov 2, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> bripat9643 said:
> 
> 
> > Quantum Windbag said:
> ...


Obamamoney and with 4 boxtops...you receive an Obamaphone to call the ambulance to come get you!

[/tongue-in-cheek].


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



The insurance companies are arguing in favor of a law that requires people to buy insurance?

Who'da thunk it?


----------



## candycorn (Nov 2, 2013)

Redfish said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Re-read the statement; it was about the lie you guys keep telling that if you need to have a surgery on Friday, you can buy insurance on Thursday.  That ends next year.


----------



## candycorn (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Your hatred of blacks makes you think that you can quote any BS and then disavow what you quoted.  Bitter prejudice/bigotry has fucked your pea brain over.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



More good news then....for everyone.

The ole bait and switch routine.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > Seawytch said:
> ...



Yet they have. Your piece dos not include the costs of mandatory benefits, no lifetime cap, and no pricing based on health. That changes everything.


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## Quantum Windbag (Nov 2, 2013)

zeke said:


> Darkwind said:
> 
> 
> > zeke said:
> ...



I have a simple solution to that, repeal the EMTLA.


----------



## candycorn (Nov 2, 2013)

Seawytch said:


> Too bad for the stupid states that didn't take the Medicaid expansion.



Absolutely correct.  One of our competitors  (I work for a large hospital/healthcare concern) that has 40-50 campuses in Texas are going to have to pull back; not because of Obamacare but because Texas is not taking the money that was made available to them.  

The Forrest Gump line about "stupid is as stupid does" applies here since Texas is a wholly owned subsidiary of the GOP.  

Too bad.


----------



## Quantum Windbag (Nov 2, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Redfish said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



It actually doesn't. 

If you suddenly discover you need surgery you can "move" from New Jersey to New York and the insurance companies in New York have to sell you a policy that covers the surgery. 

But, please, keep telling me how stupid you are.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Nov 2, 2013)

@
thread title


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > OODA_Loop said:
> ...



Yes, the pricing is based one wealth....not health. 

It will never work.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Let's see...

you're the guy who first claimed that individual Americans are better at staying out of debt than the government, then I prove that's nonsense, then you flip flop to claim that the trend has been reversed,

then you flip flop back again to claim it hasn't.

So we're back to me having proven your original claim to be horseshit.  Big surprise.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



I think you're confused. 

I don't remember this exchange. 

Maybe you're hearing voices again.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

OODA_Loop said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Understood it perfectly well.  

They cheated.  And when they couldn't get away with that, they told my employer to get rid of me.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



So essentially you want to remove your ability to sue.

The government cannot be easily drug into civil court.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> So essentially you want to remove your ability to sue.
> 
> The government cannot be easily drug into civil court.



No, usually, a call to your congressman will get the bureaucrats off their asses pretty quick... 

So I don't worry about that too much.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Then you're a fool.......because this country is being transformed.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

*The 10 Commandments of Government*


*I* Generally speaking, government always grows -- it never shrinks -- whether times are good or bad.
*II* In each area it purports to "assist", government attempts to replace individual decision-making with central planning.
*III* In order to implement its grand central plans and solidify its power, government must take from one citizen to give to another; this is, in effect, lawful theft.
*IV* No matter how many times central planning fails, the self-appointed masterminds in government assert that "this time is different" and that with only a few tweaks and more money, their delusional plans will succeed.
*V* Because it uses funds confiscated from taxpayers, self-restraint is no obstacle to government's ambitions.
*VI* Its fundamental misunderstanding of human nature notwithstanding, government must claim to grant "rights", which require it steal the labors of one citizen to give to another (such as food, shelter, employment, and health care).
*VII* No matter how widespread the harm it causes, government will never provide an honest and historical accounting -- a report card -- of its failures.
*VIII* As more individuals and families are harmed by the failures of central planning, government must find suitable scapegoats, must lie to do so, and therefore must also repress dissent.
*IX* In order to build its network of redistribution and grow a culture of dependency on its services, government must inevitably undermine the family unit, religion, and the notion of God-given rights in order to cow, bribe, or intimidate its citizens.
*X* As government grows ever more powerful, it must also become increasingly oppressive through compulsion and force. To do otherwise would mean government must shrink, and this it cannot do.​
Doug Ross @ Journal


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 2, 2013)

Seems to me many of the plans were deemed substandard only because they didn't offer what the customer didn't need or want.........

Just sayin........



http://www.volokh.com/2013/11/02/substandard-plan/


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> zeke said:
> 
> 
> > Is there not a SINGLE fucking rethug that comes on here that has a job that provides them with employer health insurance? NOT ONE?
> ...


You're supposed to get a warm fuzzy from helping those less fortunate, like those people the left wants to vote Democrat because they get free shit from the government paid for by your tax dollars.


Awwwwww.


----------



## daveman (Nov 2, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> OODA_Loop said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Delusional paranoia.  There's just no end to your list of character defects.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



yeah, into something better.  

Guy, besides the fact you've been living off the government teet your whole life, fact is, the government can run the medical system better than Big Insurance. 

Because it already does. 

Medicare, VA, much better run than Cigna or Blue Cross or any of the other horseshit.


----------



## MeBelle (Nov 2, 2013)

candycorn said:


> Seawytch said:
> 
> 
> > *Too bad for the stupid states that didn't take the Medicaid expansion.
> ...



Well, this is truly curious:

Doctors brace for pain as 10% cut to Medi-Cal rates looms - Los Angeles Times
June 10, 2013
Doctors brace for pain as 10% cut to Medi-Cal rates looms
This summer, when *California makes a controversial 10% cut to Medi-Cal rates, *he could get paid less. Ma said he didn't go into safety net medicine for the money, but he worries that the reductions will make it even harder for his patients to get medication, medical equipment and appointments with specialists.

The reductions to providers like Ma will also create a massive glitch in the implementation of national healthcare reform  *the cuts to Medi-Cal rates are to occur just as more people prepare to join the program under the Affordable Care Act. Currently 8.3 million poor Californians are covered by Medi-Cal, and more than 1 million new enrollees are expected beginning next year.*

"*At a time when California is expanding Medi-Cal health* services to low-income individuals," the letter stated, "it makes no sense to shrink the supply of health care providers who will treat these populations."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/health/california-to-expand-medicaid.html?_r=0
Published: June 15, 2013
*SACRAMENTO*  The State Legislature passed a major piece of the federal Affordable Care Act on Saturday,* opting to expand Medicaid to 1.4 million low-income people in California as it rushed to meet its deadline to complete a state budget.*

The action came a day after lawmakers passed the main budget bill outlining a $96.3 billion spending plan for the fiscal year that starts in July.

*Republicans raised concerns about whether California can afford the expansion over the long run, especially once the federal government drops its commitment from 100 percent to 90 percent.*

Democrats said the expansion would help save lives, keep workers healthy and attract billions of dollars from the federal government into the state.
~~~

Now what was being said about those stupid states?



> *Too bad for the stupid states that didn't take the Medicaid expansion. *


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 2, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Household Debt and Credit Report - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

Happy now?


----------



## Dot Com (Nov 2, 2013)

Marsha is turning out to be one of the Repub's primary go-to tools to spread their propaganda.


----------



## P@triot (Nov 3, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



 [MENTION=12997]auditor0007[/MENTION], even *if* that were true, where does it become the responsibility of the federal government to solve that "problem"?!?

It's so jaw-dropping fucking unbelievable that Dumbocrats think they can arbitrarily decide to have government take over the private sector if they don't like the cost of something. Since I think a Lamborghini is expensive, can I have the government force people to subsidize a Lamborghini for me by forcing everyone into some exchanges? Do you realize how fucking absurd that is?!?

No matter what you *perceive* to be a problem, it's not the responsibility of the federal government to "fix" it for you. Furthermore, I had the greatest healthcare in the world and it didn't cost me a damn thing. So this "problem" was clearly just a figment of your wild imagination.


----------



## P@triot (Nov 3, 2013)

auditor0007 said:


> Generally, anyone buying a plan with such a large deductible is healthy and most likely will never hit that deductible.  If something happens in a given year and they do, then at least they are covered for the major bills.  But all of this just gets back to the point of how much healthcare actually costs in this country.  People who make $30,000 per year cannot afford to pay for all of their healthcare on their own.  It's basically impossible.  When you understand that we are paying $8500 per year per person, you can see a person making $30,000 per year can't afford that.  And what if that person is trying to support a couple of kids.  Now the healthcare costs are over $25,000 per year.
> 
> Now we all know that person making $30,000 is not paying their full share of the $8500 or if they have kids, the $25,500.  But somebody is paying for it.  It ain't free.



Again [MENTION=12997]auditor0007[/MENTION], where is it written that the government can take action in the private market if _you_ don't like the cost of something?


----------



## P@triot (Nov 3, 2013)

zeke said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



And here we see the extraordinary ignorance of [MENTION=35352]zeke[/MENTION] rearing it's ugly head again.

You don't even understand that *real* conservatives do not "want all Americans to have health insurance coverage". What they _want_ is Constitutional government. Gee, what a "radical" concept, uh? 

The fact that you don't even realize that much speaks volumes about how misinformed - _and_ woefully unqualified - you are to be having an intelligent discussion.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



VA hospitals a a fruckin disgrace...

-Geaux


----------



## Sarah G (Nov 3, 2013)

That woman is a complete asshole.  She never stops talking and what she talks about are Republican talking points day in and day out.  

Where do they get these people?


----------



## Sarah G (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > zeke said:
> ...



Did you see Keir Dullea on Up Late With Alec Baldwin?  So good.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Really? 

Economist's View: VA Hospitals vs. Private Sector Hospitals




> For the sixth year in a row, VA hospitals last year scored higher than private facilities on the University of Michigan's American Customer Satisfaction Index... Males 65 years and older receiving VA care had about a 40% lower risk of death than those enrolled in Medicare Advantage, whose care is provided through private health plans or HMOs... Harvard University just gave the VA its Innovations in American Government Award for the agency's work in computerizing patient records.



Defense.gov News Article: VA Outranks Private Sector in Health Care Patient Satisfaction



> Veterans continued to rate the care they receive through the Department of Veterans Affairs health care system higher than other Americans rate private-sector health care for the sixth consecutive year, a new annual report on customer satisfaction reveals.
> 
> For VA Secretary R. James Nicholson, the news is affirmation of what he called "the greatest story never told," that the VA offers top-quality care for its patients.
> 
> ...


----------



## candycorn (Nov 3, 2013)

Quantum Windbag said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Redfish said:
> ...



Well if you believe that, please try that in a couple of years.  I suggest you put your affairs in order first though.


----------



## candycorn (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



We benchmark some of the VA practices.  GEAUX is a dipshit


----------



## candycorn (Nov 3, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



He also claimed...

:deep breath:

That Obama was lying about Osama being killed
That it was a mistake to kill Osama
That Obama  got "booze and women" for Chris Christie
That Rush didn't call Sandra Fluke a "slut"
That "Blacks with or without guns are the problem"

This latest flip-flop surprises you?


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 3, 2013)

candycorn said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Sounds legit

-Geaux


----------



## P@triot (Nov 3, 2013)

candycorn said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



And [MENTION=20614]candycorn[/MENTION] is a lying parasite... (I love exposing her lies and her ignorance):


Rare disease at hospital raises concerns about VA health care

Some Veterans' Hospitals in Shocking Shape - ABC News

Conditions At VA Hospital Draw National Fire - SuperTalk Mississippi

Walter Reed Army Medical Center neglect scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Soldier describes "unsanitary" conditions at Tampa VA Hospital - WFTX-TV Fort Myers/Naples, FL

Lawmakers call VA Hospital report findings unacceptable

VA Hospital Poor Conditions


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 3, 2013)

candycorn said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...



Hey skank.. Speaking of dipshits like cornschooner and liquored up Joe

You drones are disturbing



'It Is Just Not Walter Reed'

Ray Oliva went into the spare bedroom in his home in Kelseyville, Calif., to wrestle with his feelings. He didn't know a single soldier at Walter Reed, but he felt he knew them all. He worried about the wounded who were entering the world of military health care, which he knew all too well. His own VA hospital in Livermore was a mess. The gown he wore was torn. The wheelchairs were old and broken.

"It is just not Walter Reed," Oliva slowly tapped out on his keyboard at 4:23 in the afternoon on Friday. "The VA hospitals are not good either except for the staff who work so hard. It brings tears to my eyes when I see my brothers and sisters having to deal with these conditions. I am 70 years old, some say older than dirt but when I am with my brothers and sisters we become one and are made whole again."

The official reaction to the revelations at Walter Reed has been swift, and it has exposed the potential political costs of ignoring Oliva's 24.3 million comrades -- America's veterans -- many of whom are among the last standing supporters of the Iraq war. In just two weeks, the Army secretary has been fired, a two-star general relieved of command and two special commissions appointed; congressional subcommittees are lining up for hearings, the first today at Walter Reed; and the president, in his weekly radio address, redoubled promises to do right by the all-volunteer force, 1.5 million of whom have fought in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And more

http://www.winknews.com/Local-Flori...-VA-hospital-for-poor-conditions#.UnZV5HBNJ8E

FORT MYERS, Fla.- A WINK News investigation team uncovered claims, almost two years ago, of dirty and deplorable conditions at the James A. Haley Veterans Hospital in Tampa. 

The family of injured Cape Coral soldier Corey Kent brought pictures to Senator Bill Nelson and demanded change. 

The VA promised better care for veterans, but there are new claims the hospital is again neglecting to give veterans proper care. Those vets contacted the National Coalition for Patriots organization, who then contacted us.

We got our hands on the new pictures from inside the James A Haley VA hospital showing what the organization calls deplorable conditions for America's war heroes.

WINK News spoke to one vet and his wife on the phone Monday. For the past year, he's been treated at James A. Haley VA hospital. He says the conditions and his care are horrible and something's gotta change.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > zeke said:
> ...



At this rate I will be one of the less fortunate in a year or two.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> And [MENTION=20614]candycorn[/MENTION] is a lying parasite... (I love exposing her lies and her ignorance):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, Poodle once again proves, that if he googles something, he can disprove a point. 

Not really. 

First, Walter Reed Hospital was not run by the VA. It was run by the Army, where his hero, George W. Bush, didn't set aside enough funds to deal with all the guys who came back maimed.  

But don't let little facts get in your way, Poodle.   

If you were actually a veteran, you'd understand the VA is pretty awesome at what it does.


----------



## P@triot (Nov 3, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



And sadly parasites like Candycorn and JoeB. will be pumping their fists in the air because they brought you down to their level and made you "equal" to them in their minds. It's always about their envy and feelings on inferiority. But their too lazy to rise up, so they try to drag us down.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Man, for someone who sucks at the government teet, you really complain about the government a lot.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



daveman and Muddy are regularly sucking at the government teet while I work two jobs in the private sector and have a personal business.  


Frankly, really kind of tired of hearing them whine that they aren't getting theirs....


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



You should of obtained a higher level of education where perhaps one job would of sufficed. 

Or are you just greedy?

-Geaux


----------



## P@triot (Nov 3, 2013)

candycorn said:


> We benchmark some of the VA practices.



And how is _that_ working out for you? You guys also "audit" and "benchmark" Medicare.... 

Medicare paid millions to dead people and illegal aliens


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 3, 2013)

candycorn said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



He's delusional. I never had such an exchange with him. He must be confusing me with someone else. 

And the issues you brought up are, as usual, fabrications or rationalizations.

*Obama was lying about Osama.* He has produced no proof that he is dead and the only evidence he's had is the word of Seal team members, which seem to be dying at an alarming rate. We've seen dozens of different versions of what happened being leaked by the White House. Taking into consideration his penchant for lying, believing anything about UBL is difficult.

*I never said it was a mistake to kill Osama.* I would have volunteered to cap his worthless ass personally. Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it the truth.

*I haven't a clue what you're talking about when it comes to Christie,* Christie thinks turning his back on the GOP is going to win elections for him. We've basically written the fat bastard off our list for good. 

*Rush never called Sandra Fluke a 'slut'.* You want to parse words over Obamacare then two can play that game. He said she was essentially a prostitute. Ed Schultz is the one who called Laura Ingrahm a slut on his radio show. Ed Schultz Calls Laura Ingraham a 'Right Wing Slut' - Taylor Marsh

The only thing you said that was accurate was the last statement.* Some blacks, with or without guns, are a problem.* So are some whites. LAX found that out this week.
However, blacks in general are taught from early childhood to hate white people, and now the government even rewards them for being racists and bigots. See the Trayvon Martin case. The government uses them as an excuse to bring lawsuits against states that want an honest election process saying that blacks are disfranchised whenever we can require them to produce a valid I.D. to buy cigs, booze, or enter Democrat townhall meetings and conventions. But never expect them to produce one when they vote. They give them SNAP cards so they can buy food and then change the amounts on their cards without notice causing panics in numerous cities. Food Stamp debit cards. Blacks are allowed to call us "Crazy Assed Crackers" without so much as a complaint yet if we call an NFL team "Redskins" we get harangued on national television by pushy, loudmouthed journalists. I'm waiting for someone to bitch about the "Tarheels". That is one racist nickname. Most of the mass murders that have taken place are being committed by blacks or young kids with mental disorders. White on black crime is blown out of proportion but black on white crime is totally ignored. The media is impatiently waiting for some Tea Party member to go off and cap a bunch of people but it just isn't happening. It seems that it's always somebody with a mental disorder, a Muslim, or a black with a chip on his shoulder. It takes an investigative reporter that isn't drinking the Kool-aid to report any of the numerous hate crimes perpetrated on whites by gangs of blacks these days. 

*Blacks commit more than their share of violent crimes.* While working during college I was held up by gang members who couldn't have been older than 17. Most white kids that age are busy partying with their friends and watching movies, not holding up liquor store clerks.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



No, what I am is in debt due to a medical crisis due to the fact that my last job cut off my insurance in mid-treatment.  

Six years ago, what I was making was fine to meet all my needs.  Shit, I even voted Republican.  

Then I ran into a medical issue, ran up a lot of bills, was illegally fired by my employer, and have to now work my way out of it.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > We benchmark some of the VA practices.
> ...



More dishonest statements.  

When a patient dies, their bills are usually not buried with them, and their heirs have to take care of them.  

Oh, yeah, and frankly, I don't consider human beings to be "illegal" because they moved into land we stole from them to start with.


----------



## Sarah G (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Really.  I'm surprised they can afford the internet, hope they don't have premium channels.


----------



## P@triot (Nov 3, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



I'm surprised too - considering the way parasites such as _you_ and JoeB. keep mooching off of them....


----------



## Dot Com (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



good point Joe B.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



I was getting ready to pile on here Joe-  But after that, I'll give you a pass this time 

-Geaux


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



I have a personal business too. And everything I get from the government I ether risked my life for or currently work for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week when Obama decides to let me. My hours keep being cut back, but I'm still expected to do the same amount of work. 

So you and your poxy opinions can go toss off.


----------



## Geaux4it (Nov 3, 2013)

Dot Com said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



It was a fair fight. We just kicked their ass is all

-Geaux


----------



## Sarah G (Nov 3, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> Sarah G said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Well, you should be ok posting from the looney bin and all.  They do pay for cable, probably through insurance.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Geaux4it said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



And this is all the GOP's fault?




I'm sure they had a reason to fire you. Nobody ever feels they were fired for good cause.


----------



## boedicca (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...





The "heirs" only have to settle bills if there is an estate to cover them.   I doubt most people on Medicare who leave significant unpaid bills leave significant estates.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Baldwin needs to stick to acting.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



As long as you vote Democrat, you'll get what you need to (barely) scrape by.


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## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


You've _never_ heard me whine that I'm not getting mine.

Conversely, you _constantly_ whine that I'm getting mine.  You HATE it that I draw a pension, for which I contracted with the government.

You could have, too, if you hadn't gotten thrown out of the Army.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

Sarah G said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...


You really shouldn't listen to Joe.  He's stupid and dishonest.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

Geaux4it said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Geaux4it said:
> ...


You have to take everything PinkoJoe says with a truckload of salt.


----------



## Sunshine (Nov 3, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



You don't know that.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

Sunshine said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > TemplarKormac said:
> ...



He's just mindlessly repeating his programming.


----------



## Sunshine (Nov 3, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> TemplarKormac said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



Define 'crap.'  

As a 65 year old female, I would consider it a crap policy if I had to pay for pregnancy and childbirth coverage, abortion coverage,  prostate cancer coverage, and many other types of coverage that I would never have any occasion to need..


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



Fired from his job, thrown out of the Army?

Maybe he should apply for Social Security.


----------



## daveman (Nov 3, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



It's not like he WANTS to work for a living.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 3, 2013)

CNN anchor Christiane Amanpour got into a pissing contest with a Rep from Georgia's 15th District. Rep Steve Smith on Twitter........

She was quick to call out the self-described "Tea Party Congressman" for making fun of the Germans. 






Problem is, he doesn't exist and there is no 15th District in Georgia. 

Oh, and I followed the guy just to see what was up and he followed me back. He, or whomever claims to be him, is still following me on Twitter. My guess is he's a lib trying to make the Tea Party look bad. 


CNN Anchor Calls Out Tea Party Congressman Over Insensitive Joke? The Problem Is, He Doesn?t Exist | The Daley Gator


----------



## MeBelle (Nov 3, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > We benchmark some of the VA practices.
> ...



Medicare paid millions to dead people, illegal immigrants | The Daily Caller

Medicare paid millions to dead patients, illegal immigrants, probe finds - Washington Times

^^^better links^^^


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## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> I have a personal business too. And everything I get from the government I ether risked my life for or currently work for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week when Obama decides to let me. My hours keep being cut back, but I'm still expected to do the same amount of work.
> 
> So you and your poxy opinions can go toss off.



I've had this discussion with Caveman, so I'll have it with you. 

Military Retirement is the generosity of your fellow citizens.  You are no more entitled to it than the food stamp mom is entitled to her EBT Card.  You were paid at the time you did that work.  Anything more is other people's generosity. 

Now, no, I don't want to cut military pensions, but frankly, I get a little tired of you guys always being for cutting someone else's meal ticket 'for the good", but never volunteering yourself.  

Oh, your personal business.  That was the houses you rent to section 8 tenants and military families... that kind of STILL sounds like sucking off the teet...


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

MeBelle60 said:


> Rottweiler said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



again, did the patients and doctors incure services when they were alive or not?  

Then in that case, payments should be made to their estates.  

As for illegals, if they paid into Medicare they should be entitled to get it.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 3, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Rottweiler said:
> ...



I don't care that you are drawing a pension or not. 

I just think that you'd insist on drawing it while the country is broke while starving poor children makes you kind of a terrible person and a bad Christian. 

Quick- who would Jesus Starve?


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 3, 2013)

Latest stupid excuse by the left on BSNBC........

Obama didn't think you'd like the plan he said you could keep if you liked it.

I can't make this up it's so stupid.

Harris-Perry's Hilarious Excuse For Obama's 'If You Like It You Can Keep It' Lie | NewsBusters


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


You lie.  Once again, you lie.  You're ALWAYS bitching about my pension.

I earned it.  Your input is neither sought nor required.

It must absolutely SUCK to be you, to have your entire life defined by greed, envy, and hatred.


----------



## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Latest stupid excuse by the left on BSNBC........
> 
> Obama didn't think you'd like the plan he said you could keep if you liked it.
> 
> ...



There sure are a lot of people who like the taste of Obama's shit.

But it's funny the way they expect us to believe them when they tell us it's yummy.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Dude, I'm just holding you to your own standard. 

Now, you are the one who INSISTS we can't raise the debt ceiling because we have too much debt and we can't raise taxes on the wealthy because the poor dears have it so bad already.  

So our only option is to cut someone's benefits. 

I think cutting a payment to a guy who insists he's already so successful is a much more "Christian" and decent thing to do that cutting food stamps to poor children, don't you?


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## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Or cutting food stamps to folks that do nothing other than get high and watch TV. Cutting off foreign aid to countries that hate us. 

Getting rid of waste and fraud is a better solution than fucking over people who worked for their benefits or risked their health or their lives for it.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> Or cutting food stamps to folks that do nothing other than get high and watch TV. Cutting off foreign aid to countries that hate us.
> 
> Getting rid of waste and fraud is a better solution than fucking over people who worked for their benefits or risked their health or their lives for it.



The old "Waste and Fraud" dog.  

Conservatives have been trotting that one out for as long as I can remember. 

And they never seem to do anything about it. 

Now here's the thing. I would LOVE to see folks all have jobs. 

But as it stands now, 40% of households on SNAP have at least one member with a job. But it's usually a job at someplace like the Home Depot or McDonalds that doesn't pay that much.  

You might think you "Deserve" your pension, but the thing is, you don't "need" it.  

That poor child does need food stamps. 

My ideal world, we tax the wealthy, use that money to invest in infrastructure, create jobs and get those folks off the welfare rolls.  

And maybe stop sticking our dicks in the Middle East Hornet's Nest so we aren't paying out so many pensions and benefits to guys who come back without limbs.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



A few points:

Lumping those in need with those who don't is the definition of waste.

Ask me what choice I had in the Middle East. I simply followed lawful orders.

The wealthy create jobs. The poor create none.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> A few points:
> 
> Lumping those in need with those who don't is the definition of waste.
> 
> ...



Last time I checked, we hadn't had a draft since 1973.  

The wealthy don't create jobs... consumer demand does.  

This is why food stamps are administered by the Department of Agriculture... they are SPECIFICALLY to keep demand for food high enough to make growing it profitable. 

Sorry, man, we've had socialist agriculture since the 1930's, and it works better that way.  

Out of curiousity, how many people on food stamps do you think are out there cheating the system? Throw out a percentage, preferably one you can validate from a not-crazy website.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > A few points:
> ...



The draft has nothing to do with a military contract.
The wealthy create jobs. Without them there would be no products for the consumer to buy.
From personal experience I would have to say that 80% of food stamp recipients could get a job but don't. It's just easier to apply for food stamps. But part of the reason we need food stamps is pricks like Obama jacking up the price of food through excise taxes.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> The draft has nothing to do with a military contract.
> The wealthy create jobs. Without them there would be no products for the consumer to buy.
> From personal experience I would have to say that 80% of food stamp recipients could get a job but don't. It's just easier to apply for food stamps. But part of the reason we need food stamps is pricks like Obama jacking up the price of food through excise taxes.



Excise taxes?  Really? 

80%? really? 

Guy not sure what it's like where you are, but frankly, as I said, 40% of food stamp recipiants have jobs.  

it's that the middle class has vanished that's the problem, and the rich are a parasite that have convinced you they are a vital organ.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



48% of food stamp recipients are children.  Another 8% are people over 60.  

USDA Blog » FACT vs. FICTION: USDA?s Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program


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## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Children again?

What about their parents?

Are these children without parents? Is the country full of orphans now?


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## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



And what has Obama done, other than make it worse?


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 4, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> 
> OR
> 
> ...



well, what about OUR RIGHTS not to pay for your all's ABORTIONS and condoms?
What about the children's rights that is being ABORTED? they don't have any?
What OUR RIGHTS to chose what we want in OUR LIVES? did that fly out Obama's ass when he was elected?
you government tit suckers wail about rights as long as it pertains to YOU selfish pos
wonkeydunkyet has to one the crappiest leftwing propaganda hate sites on the internet folks...don't go there and SUPPORT their rights to post ignorant crap like this article


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

What is causing food prices to go up?


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

Somebody near and dear to me grew up in a home with one parent, who worked in the fields in the deep South during the Great Depression and never lived off of government handouts. Twelve starving kids with little or no meat, sleeping on a straw mattress with a leaky roof. Her mother refused to take assistance.

These days the poor are fat, lazy, have cellphones, have a car, have PCs, and in some cases refuse to work. We have the richest poor in the world. For some their biggest worry is lousy internet service.


----------



## Camp (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> What is causing food prices to go up?



Disappearence of free market competition as agriculture has become controlled by a decreasiing number of large Corporations.


----------



## boedicca (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> The old "Waste and Fraud" dog.
> 
> Conservatives have been trotting that one out for as long as I can remember.



You haven't been reading your talking points, bub.  Your Reactionary Liberal Masters have been using the "reduce waste and fraud" canard to justify ObamaCare for years.

_ OIGs Five-Principle Strategy Combats Health Care Fraud, Waste, and Abuse

Combating health care fraud requires a comprehensive strategy of prevention, detection, and enforcement.  OIG has been engaged in the fight against health care fraud, waste, and abuse for more than 30 years.  Based on this experience and our extensive body of work, we have identified five principles of an effective health care integrity strategy.  

1.  Enrollment:  Scrutinize individuals and entities that want to participate as providers and suppliers prior to their enrollment or reenrollment in the health care programs.

2.  Payment:  Establish payment methodologies that are reasonable and responsive to changes in the marketplace and medical practice.

3.  Compliance:  Assist health care providers and suppliers in adopting practices that promote compliance with program requirements.  

4.  Oversight:  Vigilantly monitor the programs for evidence of fraud, waste, and abuse.

5.  Response:  Respond swiftly to detected fraud, impose sufficient punishment to deter others, and promptly remedy program vulnerabilities.

OIG uses these five principles in our strategic work planning to assist in focusing our audit, evaluation, investigative, enforcement, and compliance efforts most effectively.  These broad principles also underlie the specific recommendations that OIG makes to HHS and Congress.  The Affordable Care Act includes provisions that reflect these program integrity principles and that we believe will promote the prevention and detection of fraud, waste, and abuse in the health care system.

The Affordable Care Act Enhances Health Care Oversight and Enforcement Activities

The breadth and scope of health care reform alter the oversight landscape in many critical respects, and as a result OIG will assume a range of expanded oversight responsibilities.  The ACA provides us with expanded law enforcement authorities, opportunities for greater coordination with other Federal agencies, and enhanced funding for the Health Care Fraud and Abuse Control (HCFAC) program.  In addition, new authorities for the Secretary and new requirements for health care providers, suppliers, and other entities will also promote the integrity of the Medicare, Medicaid, and other Federal health care programs.  The following are a few examples of how the ACA will strengthen our oversight and enforcement efforts.

Effective use of data and ensuring the integrity of information are critical to the success of the Governments anti-fraud efforts.

Provisions in section 6402 of the Affordable Care Act will enhance OIGs effectiveness in detecting fraud, waste, and abuse by expanding OIGs access to and uses of data for conducting oversight and law enforcement activities.  For example, section 6402 exempts OIG from the prohibitions against matching data across programs in the Computer Matching and Privacy Protection Act and authorizes OIG to enter into data sharing agreements with the Social Security Administration (SSA).

The law also requires the Department to expand CMSs integrated data repository (IDR) to include claims and payment data from Medicaid, the Veterans Administration, the Department of Defense, the Social Security Administration and the Indian Health Service and fosters data-matching agreements among Federal agencies.  These agreements will make it easier for the Federal Government to help detect fraud, waste, and abuse.    

Further, the ACA recognizes the importance of law enforcement access to data.  Access to real-time claims data  that is, as soon as the claim is submitted to Medicare  is especially critical to identifying fraud as it is being committed.  Timely data are also essential to our ability to respond with agility as criminals shift their schemes and locations to avoid detection.  We have made important strides in obtaining data more quickly and efficiently, and the Affordable Care Act will further those efforts.  

In addition to access to claims data, access to records and other information is critical to our mission.  Pursuant to section 6402 of the ACA, OIG may, for purposes of protecting Medicare and Medicaid integrity, obtain information from additional entities  such as providers, contractors, subcontractors, grant recipients, and suppliers  directly or indirectly involved in the provision of medical items or services payable by any Federal program.  This expanded authority will enable OIG to enhance our oversight of the Medicare and Medicaid programs.  For example, OIG audits of Part D payments can now follow the documentation supporting claims all the way back to the prescribing physicians. 

Ensuring the integrity of information is also crucial, and the Affordable Care Act provides new accountability measures toward this end.  For example, section 6402 authorizes OIG to exclude from the Federal health care programs entities that provide false information on any application to enroll or participate in a Federal health care program.  The ACA also provides new civil monetary penalties for making false statements on enrollment applications; knowingly failing to repay an overpayment; and failing to grant timely access to OIG for investigations, audits, or evaluations.

The Affordable Care Act provides the Secretary with new authorities and imposes new requirements that are consistent with OIGs health care integrity strategy and recommendations. 

In addition to promoting data access and integrity, health care reform includes numerous program integrity provisions that support an effective health care integrity strategy.  Consistent with the OIGs five-principle strategy, these include authorities and requirements to strengthen provider enrollment standards; promote compliance with program requirements; enhance program oversight, including requiring greater reporting and transparency; and strengthen the Governments response to health care fraud and abuse. ...._

Reducing Fraud, Waste and Abuse in Medicare


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

Camp said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > What is causing food prices to go up?
> ...



That's been going on for decades.

Why has food prices jumped exponentially in say the last 4 years?

Ask Michelle, my belle.


----------



## Sunshine (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



She wants us all to grow our own food and slim down?


----------



## AquaAthena (Nov 4, 2013)

Sunshine said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Camp said:
> ...



Yes, just as she did AFTER becoming FLOTUS and using taxpayer's dollars for a new diet and personal trainer... She was a hefty one before grabbing all that cash, for a new and improved look so she could "talk the talk and walk that walk."


----------



## Camp (Nov 4, 2013)

AquaAthena said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



This is the kind of thinking that makes Marsha Blackburn and those who support her are not taken seriously and are viewed as fools whose emotions prevent them from making rational judgements and forming intelligent opinions.


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 4, 2013)

You people better WAKE up


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

Camp said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > Sunshine said:
> ...



Whatever.

First thing they need to do is forbid SNAP recipients from using it to buy anything other than staple items. No sodas. No T-Bone steaks. Just rice, beans, potatoes, vegetables. Next, makean work for it. Start picking up trash, cleaning dead-fall and brush in the forrests. They should have to earn their handouts, not sit on their butts and collect them while the Middle-Class works 2 and 3 jobs to pay for it for them.


----------



## NYcarbineer (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



You were already told how many adults on food stamps work.  Children count towards how much a household gets in food stamps.

You want to take away those food stamps and tell the kids to get jobs?  Why am I not surprised?


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 4, 2013)

he is in charge of what is crappy and not crappy Insurance for you all...how about that...guess who? Rahm Emanuel's  BROTHER
[ame=http://youtu.be/a0aPYebz9-A]Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel: Insurance Companies See the Future - "The Individual Market Is Going Away" - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > NYcarbineer said:
> ...



No. We could just snuff the life from them with taxpayer funded abortions.


----------



## Sunshine (Nov 4, 2013)

AquaAthena said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Don't forget that stupid vegetable garden that was left to rot.


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 4, 2013)

Sunshine said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > Sunshine said:
> ...



that was probably the first time she ever saw a garden in her uppity life

it was such a JOKE


----------



## Sunshine (Nov 4, 2013)

Stephanie said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> > AquaAthena said:
> ...



When it went to rot during the furloughs, it was a lead pipe cinch who was caring for it.  Not her!  And I haven't seen any articles about vegetable gardens springing up in housing projects either.  LMAO.  Mammy's description of Scarlet in GWTW is most apt for Michelle - she's just a mule in horse harness.


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 4, 2013)

Sunshine said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > Sunshine said:
> ...



they both think so highly of themselves, she probably figured everyone would rush out and grow a garden, just like she think they are doing her stupid exercises and dances...

that's classic love of self see how important I am narcissistic...they are both inflicted with it...Unfortunately we have to live under him with his...and it's been just as ugly


----------



## Dot Com (Nov 4, 2013)

Camp said:


> AquaAthena said:
> 
> 
> > Sunshine said:
> ...



I doubt she has a link proving her bloviation as well. This is one of many reasons the repubs can't win national (senate & Prez) elections anymore. They're being spoon-fed hate/fear by SeanRush.

As to the OP, Republicorp is trotting out women like blackburn & Aotte to appeal to Undecided & Indie female voters which just aint goin' to happen.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

Dot Com said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > AquaAthena said:
> ...



Can't win an election. Take away the slobbering press and the Dems couldn't win an election, period.


----------



## candycorn (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > Camp said:
> ...



Sounding like a victim there...blaming everyone except your incredibly bad choice of candidates....


----------



## Dot Com (Nov 4, 2013)

candycorn said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Doesn't help them that they only have two non-SOCON planks as well. Tried and failed planks of tax-cuts (blew a hole in GWB's budget #'s) & deregulation/non-regulation (see Wall St.  )


----------



## flacaltenn (Nov 4, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



DETRIMENTAL TO TAXPAYERS??? 

The plan that Obama stole from me was just fine. Nothing wrong with plan.
He just didn't like the idea of Professional Organizations grouping engineers and offering them PROFESSIONALLY MANAGED COMPETENT insurance. With LICENSED mgt and not ex-con "navigators".  So he OUTLAWED it.. 

You wouldn't have a thread even IF your OP assumption that those policies were all "defective". That's NOT fact in evidence.. 

*I had a chat with the VP of local bank.. All of THEIR employees were covered by the bank buying them CATATASTROPIC policy coverage (hospitalization) and then the bank SELF-COVERED them for the rest except for $1500/person/yr.  THAT --- was a fine plan and is NOW ILLEGAL... *

You asshats need to STFU and stop making shit up... Your fellow citizens are not stupid enough to believe that their plans were defective because they didn't cover transgender reassignment surgery or give out free birth control... Only the mental midget "onepercenters" believe that crap.


----------



## Stephanie (Nov 4, 2013)

Obama and his sheep thinks you all are too stupid to make your own choices

welcome to the socialist/communist ObamaNation with Hugoobama as your daddy


----------



## Dot Com (Nov 4, 2013)

hyperbole much? BTW- anecdotal evidence & $1.87 will get you a small cup of coffee at the local Quickie Mart. 

As to the OP, Blackburn is the rw shill of the month for Republicorp and their paymasters.


----------



## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


You don't think at all.  All you have is emotion.

And where have I ever said I'm "so successful"?  We're comfortable.  Not wealthy by any means.  Just another lie from you.

You just want shit you didn't earn.  It's the Commie way.


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

candycorn said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Why do you hate black people??????

Oh, sorry......that's your line.


----------



## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Your ideal world collapsed in 1989.






You wept bitterly, and cursed Ronald Reagan and America.


----------



## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Sorry, man, we've had socialist agriculture since the 1930's, and it works better that way.


Yes, paying farmers to NOT GROW CROPS is brilliant!!


----------



## P@triot (Nov 4, 2013)

NYcarbineer said:


> 48% of food stamp recipients are children.  Another 8% are people over 60.
> 
> USDA Blog » FACT vs. FICTION: USDA?s Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program



And your ignorant point here would be _what_ [MENTION=18701]NYcarbineer[/MENTION]?!? That if children are involved, voiding the Constitution is legal and communism becomes acceptable?


----------



## P@triot (Nov 4, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> NYcarbineer said:
> 
> 
> > 48% of food stamp recipients are children.  Another 8% are people over 60.
> ...



Funny thing about Dumbocrats like NYcarbineer - they pretend to weep for the "48% of food stamp recipients which are children" but never shed one tear for the BILLIONS of children who starved to death in places like the former U.S.S.R., Cambodia, Cuba, Ethiopia, etc. under the same idiot policies of socialism/communism/marxism they advocate for...


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## candycorn (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Since you brought it up.....why do you?


----------



## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> > AquaAthena said:
> ...


I've been assured by the left that such requirements are racist. 

Of course, they never quite get around to explaining why...


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> [
> You don't think at all.  All you have is emotion.
> 
> And where have I ever said I'm "so successful"?  We're comfortable.  Not wealthy by any means.  Just another lie from you.
> ...



Well, you have to be more successful than I am, or at least you think you are... 

Point is, you don't the government writing you a check every month. You're such a capable guy, I'm sure you could find work somewhere.  

Or do you only love your country when it pays you?


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## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
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And you think because he's more successful than you.....you feel the need to give financial advice?


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
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> > daveman said:
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Not giving him financial advice. That works on the assumption I care about his well-being. 

(I really don't.) 

I'm just pointing out that if he is such a great patriot who is truly concerned about the fiscal crisis, maybe he need to forgo his retirement payment instead of trying to yank food out of some poor kid's mouth.  

Again, it's what Jesus would do.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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Well they nailed him to a cross.

Would you like to try being crucified? Maybe buy O'Reilly's "Killing Jesus" to get a flavor of being nailed to a cross. 

Asking him to give up his pension is pretty damned silly if you ask me. Why don't you just shove a flaming hot poker up your ass too. See how that feels. Let me know when you're done.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Good God, you're stupid.

My pension is only a small part of my income.  I have a job as well.  

And I'm more successful than you are because I'm not a whiny little bitch complaining that the world owes me a living.  I've earned what I have.

Try it sometime.  It's rewarding and fulfilling, and you won't be a leech on society.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
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I wasn't speaking of Jesus like he really existed. I was asking what the fictional character would do.  

He wouldn't insist on getting a payment he didn't need while watching poor kids starve.  

WWJD baby! 

Incidently, I was just pointing out his hypocrisy.  He REALLY TRULY BELIEVES we are in a fiscal crisis!!!! 

Dooom Agony Destitution!

Can't borrow more money, can't raise taxes on the rich. We got to totally cut expenses.  

Just not his.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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> > JoeB131 said:
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If you're so concerned about poor kids, do something for them yourself instead of making yourself feel all warm and fuzzy by being generous with other people's money.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> [
> Good God, you're stupid.
> 
> *My pension is only a small part of my income.  I have a job as well.  *
> ...



I've earned what I have, too.  Until big corporations stole it from me.  

But frankly, if you are insisting you JUST HAVE TO HAVE A CHECK for something you did years ago, who thinks the world owes him a living?


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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$17 trillion in the hole is NOT a financial crisis?

No wonder you got fired.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> [
> If you're so concerned about poor kids, do something for them yourself instead of making yourself feel all warm and fuzzy by being generous with other people's money.



I pay thousand of dollars in taxes every year.

Things I don't want them going to. 

Paying Israel to play "God Loves me the very best". 
Fighting wars in the middle east.
Paying ignorant assholes who spent 20 years making latrines for the Air FOrce. 

Things I don't mind paying for. 

Keeping kids from starving.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
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No, you gave it away by getting fired for cause.


JoeB131 said:


> But frankly, if you are insisting you JUST HAVE TO HAVE A CHECK for something you did years ago, who thinks the world owes him a living?


So, in summary, you think the government should renege on its contract with me because...you're butthurt.

Dumbass.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> [
> $17 trillion in the hole is NOT a financial crisis?
> 
> No wonder you got fired.



Yes, it would be nice if Reagan and Bush hadn't put us there.

Tax teh wealthy appropriately, and we won't be.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Paying taxes is not being generous, Butthurt Boi.  

You REALLY think it's generous when your contribution is made due to the threat of government force?

You really ARE a retard.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> [
> Paying taxes is not being generous, Butthurt Boi.
> 
> You REALLY think it's generous when your contribution is made due to the threat of government force?
> ...



No, I expect to pay taxes as the fee of living in a CIVILIZED society.  

But frankly, enough Corporate Welfare, enough fighting wars to protect the interests of the wealthy, and especially stop fighting wars over religious stupidity.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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I've got a feeling he's gonna need all of the cash he can get. 3 more years of that prick Obama and we'll have to reopen the soup kitchens.

BTW, Fictional characters do nothing.

They're fictional. 


Funny, I don't see anyone saying Muhammad is fictional. Why Jesus?


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
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Republican debt = bad and not nice and evil.

Democrat debt = good and righteous and holy.


Retard.


JoeB131 said:


> Tax teh wealthy appropriately, and we won't be.




I can see you have no concept of mathematics.  But in your defense, that's only because you're stupid.

You can steal _every single penny_ -- not just income, but assets, property, EVERYTHING -- and it will pay to run your bloated government for about 8 months.

Then what will you do?  From whom would you steal then?


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## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Show us some of these starving kids.

Or are they fictional too?


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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Donate to charity.  Then you'll have something to feel generous about.

Paying taxes?  Nope.  Not at all.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> I've got a feeling he's gonna need all of the cash he can get. 3 more years of that prick Obama and we'll have to reopen the soup kitchens.
> 
> BTW, Fictional characters do nothing.
> 
> ...



Because there's no historical evidence Jesus actually existed.  

There is evidence of Muhammed's existence.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
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Never met a charity that wasn't a scam.  Most of them are run by churches, the ULTIMATE Scams.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Funny, I don't see anyone saying Muhammad is fictional. Why Jesus?


Because Jesus' followers won't saw your head off with a rusty knife.

Progressives are not only bigots, they're cowards, too.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 4, 2013)

daveman said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Funny, I don't see anyone saying Muhammad is fictional. Why Jesus?
> ...



Well, yeah, if you go into someone else's country and fuck with them, they are likely to try to kill you. 

Hey, here's a crazy idea.  Let's not fucking do that.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 4, 2013)

Still waiting on that hot-poker report Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just like a lib. Wanting to take from everyone else but never willing to give themselves.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
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Atheists in Chicago Package More Than 18,000 lbs of Fruit
Atheists in Chicago Package More Than 18,000 lbs of Fruit

Last week, on the day after Christmas, more than 30 members of Secular Events in Chicago (including Jessica and me from this site) went to the Greater Chicago Food Depository to help with whatever they needed us to do.
Turns out they wanted us to sort good fruit from bad fruit and box up the good stuff so they could ship it to local food pantries across the city.

Some of the oranges were torn, squishy, and disgusting but we rescued the good ones!

Were in here somewhere
Over the course of three hours, we went through 18,522 lbs. of fruit, packaging 450 cases for shipment, for people who are food insecure (to use the GCFDs terminology):​
FFRFMCC
The Freedom From Religion Foundation Metropolitan Chicago Chapter (FFRFMCC) is the Chicago chapter of the national Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), based in Madison, Wisconsin.

The purpose of the FFRFMCC is to:

Protect the constitutional principle of separation of state and church
Educate the public on matters relating to non-theism
Act as a social organization for freethinkers to meet, gather and converse with other like-minded individuals
*Coordinate community service and charity work and create partnerships with secular-based charitable organizations/foundations*
Work to encourage atheists, agnostics and skeptics to be open about their non-belief​
You have no excuse.  Get off your ass and help people.  Donate time and/or money.

Saying you're generous because you pay taxes is bullshit.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
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What country did Theo van Gogh go to?

Oh, yeah -- his own.

But you won't condemn his murder.  You're a coward.


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## daveman (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Still waiting on that hot-poker report Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Just like a lib. Wanting to take from everyone else but never willing to give themselves.


PinkoJoe will give someone else the shirt off your back.


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## P@triot (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Still waiting on that hot-poker report Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Just like a lib. Wanting to take from everyone else but never willing to give themselves.


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## P@triot (Nov 4, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
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You have to remember [MENTION=20102]mudwhistle[/MENTION], this is what Dumbocrats always do. Because they've had their ass kicked so thoroughly on the battlefield of facts and ideas, they have to come up with nonsensical scenarios and attempt to sell them (thankfully, nobody is buying except for equally stupid Dumbocrats).

They keep this insane narrative that conservatives actually like their communism such as Social Security, Medicare, etc. because we don't pass on them when we are eligible... 

Ah..._duh_! You've literally stolen from me my entire life, taken more than 60% of what I've earned making it damn near impossible to properly save for retirement for the express purpose of forcing me into a dependency on government, and then you're going to pretend that I like the programs?!?! Of course I'm not going to pass on Social Security after you spent 45 years STEALING from me. That is my opportunity to get some of MY money BACK.

You want proof that I hate Social Security, Medicare, etc.? Allow me to opt out of it, give me 100% of MY money BACK - and I will gladly burn my Social Security card on national television.

Yes folks, this is how dumb Dumbocrats really are. They can't even form a narrative that is even slightly rational enough to sell.


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## flacaltenn (Nov 4, 2013)

In the case of Soc Sec -- they have LITERALLY stolen from you. Every paycheck for the past 40 yrs in the form of your SS overpayments... "They" in this case -- being BOTH parties.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

flacaltenn said:


> In the case of Soc Sec -- they have LITERALLY stolen from you. Every paycheck for the past 40 yrs in the form of your SS overpayments... "They" in this case -- being BOTH parties.



Yup, but only one party wants to pay us back. 

Most of the debt is Congress stealing from Social Security.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> [
> 
> You have no excuse.  Get off your ass and help people.  Donate time and/or money.
> 
> Saying you're generous because you pay taxes is bullshit.



guy, i'm too busy working three jobs because I have to pay off medical debt because I live in the only country that runs health care as a "for profit" business.  Thanks for asking, though.  

Again... when you give up your retirement check, then you can talk to me about taking food out of the mouths of children. 

Naw, I'd still tell you to fuck off because that's inhumane. 

Conservatism- a rationalization for selfishness at the end of the day.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Still waiting on that hot-poker report Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Just like a lib. Wanting to take from everyone else but never willing to give themselves.



So asking dave to give up a paycheck he doesn't need is the equivlent of taking a poker up the ass? 

Really?  

I mean, I'm going by YOUR definition, that we are in SOOOOOOO much trouble we need to take food out the mouths of hungry children because we are just so broke. 

Although I think the billions we spend on wars and weapons and corporate welfare would be much better candidates for cutting than starving a poor child...

Look, guy, I've exposed your hypocrisy, there's no reason to be nasty about it...


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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...says the guy rationalizing his selfishness.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> [
> 
> You have to remember [MENTION=20102]mudwhistle[/MENTION], this is what Dumbocrats always do. Because they've had their ass kicked so thoroughly on the battlefield of facts and ideas, they have to come up with nonsensical scenarios and attempt to sell them (thankfully, nobody is buying except for equally stupid Dumbocrats).
> 
> ...



Poodle, somehow when you finally get old enough to need social security and medicare, when you are at the point where the Financial Crisis of 2040 has devalued your 401K and a big corporation has looted your pension fund, you are going to gladly starve to death because that's what Ayn Rand would do. 

Psst. Psst.  When Ayn got old, she got social security and medicare...  She comes from the Dave School of Self-reliance.  "I've got mine, fuck you!"  

And somehow, I doubt you are paying 60% of your earnings in taxes.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Still waiting on that hot-poker report Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...



Nobody is taking food out of the mouths of children. WTF is Michelle always talking about how fat our kids are? Is it because they're starving? Heck no. Back when I was growing up everyone looked like a beanpole. Now they all look like butterballs. 

God Damn. Wake the fuck up asshole. 

BTW, Obama spent more on Obamacare before it was implemented then we did in Iraq. So far it has cost over a trillion dollars. They predict it will end up costing another $2.6 trillion before it gets going and in the meanwhile millions of us will lose our health insurance because of it, will have our hours cut at work, some will have to take desperate measures just to remain in our homes. And you want to bitch about the usual strawmen liberals always throw at us. Look at yourself first. Look at the rising costs of food. Thanks to Obama and Michelle we pay twice as much for what they call "Fatty Foods" like cheese, pastries, desserts, anything that has alot of calories in it. A wedge of cheese that only a couple of years ago cost $3.60 now costs $6.89. Yet the administration says there's no inflation. People in New Jersey won't be able to heat their homes this Winter thanks to Obama and his stupid Global Warming edicts. I suggest that the skinny prick start cutting firewood for all of the people he's screwing over.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> Nobody is taking food out of the mouths of children. WTF is Michelle always talking about how fat our kids are?
> 
> ...



Guy, we haven't spent a trillion dollars on ObamaCare.  Now you are just pulling shit out of your ass.  

Honestly, guy, I work a job where I am making about a lower middle class salary  My insurance is exactly the same as it was before ObamaCare, and i don't even think it is a particularly good plan, but it qualifies.  

So I honestly have to wonder what alternate universe where ObamaCare is going to cost you your home.  

I think you just like blaming Obama for the failures of your life.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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...says the guy who blames capitalism for the failures in his life.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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Sorry dickwad. I have no failures. Seems to me all you do is complain about your's. 

Two years ago Obama borrowed $700 billion from Medicare to help pay for the start-up of Obamacare. That was just a down-payment. This was widely reported. Go check it out.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
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> > mudwhistle said:
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Along with Catholics and religion (other than Muslims).


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> [
> ...says the guy who blames capitalism for the failures in his life.



No, I blame them for the damage they've done to the country. 

I'll do well under a system where capitalists are fucking working people. 

And I'll do well under a system where working people are lining up capitalists and shooting their sorry asses.  

The sad thing is, thanks to folks like you, the latter is probably a lot closer than you think.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> Two years ago Obama borrowed $700 billion from Medicare to help pay for the start-up of Obamacare. That was just a down-payment. This was widely reported. Go check it out.



So now it's not 2.6 Trillion like you said. It's 700 Billion taken out of one account to help old people and put into another account to help old people.  That's really, really not the same thing. 

Frankly, I'm  happy to see the scam of Medicare Part C limited.  That was one of the most egregious forms of Corporate Welfare.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> daveman said:
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Hilarious when you can't argue your points, you want to talk about me.  

Okay, guy, we don't have a problem with Muslims because of their religion. 

We have a problem with them because we keep invading their countries.  

If you stick your dick in a hornet's nest, don't whine about getting stung.


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## P@triot (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
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> > daveman said:
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You see his "logic"? He's pissed off his healthcare wasn't free. He's pissed off his rent isn't free. He's pisses off his food isn't free. He's pissed off he has to hold a job.

By the way, he's claimed he held two jobs. Today it's suddenly "three". I've caught him in so many lies I can't even count. On top of that, he has confessed to being a communist on multiple occassions.

Just block him and move on. There is no point is arguing with a selfish *lying* communist.


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## P@triot (Nov 5, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
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> > daveman said:
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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> [
> 
> You see his "logic"? He's pissed off his healthcare wasn't free. He's pissed off his rent isn't free. He's pisses off his food isn't free. He's pissed off he has to hold a job.
> 
> ...



Please point out where I'm pissed off that I have job?  Or that my Mortgage isn't "Free".  (Sorry, pay a mortgage, poodle, not rent like you do.) 

Also, if you've been paying attention, I've stated that I work two salaried jobs and have a side business, which I sometimes call a third job. (I write resumes for people).  

Oh, yeah, never said I was a "communist".  Used to be a republican until batshit crazy fuckers like you took over the party.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


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I think you're just trying to act retarded  

You've succeeded..

But remember, never go full-retard.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
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No, retarded is whining about the most needlessly expensive medicine in the world being made more affordable, but live in fear that poor people might get access.


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## flacaltenn (Nov 5, 2013)

How cum all the crazier Socialist fanatics "used to be Republicans" ??

Speaking of crazier fanatics.. --- WTF happened to OnePercenter and this phoney OP??


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

flacaltenn said:


> How cum all the crazier Socialist fanatics "used to be Republicans" ??
> 
> Speaking of crazier fanatics.. --- WTF happened to OnePercenter and this phoney OP??



Probably beause you called all the Not Crazy republicans "Socialists" and wondered why we left. 

On the subject of health care, the notion of "Socialism" is laughable.  

Cigna is just as "socialist" as Medicare.  

Everyone throws their money into a big pool, and it's paid out according to need.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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So affordable to you means more expensive than it was before Obamacare.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
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More expensive to who? Most people are seeing their rates go down or stay the same.  

And people who couldn't get access at all are getting it.  

More to the point, when you factor out waste in emergency rooms because people can see regular doctors, or the elimination of bankruptcies caused by medical crisis, you are going to see real savings.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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Bullshit. 

Adding more risk for insurers is only going to do one thing, increase costs. 

You really are an idiot.


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## boedicca (Nov 5, 2013)

The OP doesn't grok that the old insurance was actually better than the New & Unimproved ObamaCare policies which cost far far more for far far less.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

Taking into consideration that Obama never comes through with his promises, I figure that initially some may get a decent deal. Some. Not many. But eventually the price will skyrocket. Everything that government touches always does, historically. 

Joe, I told you Obama was lying when he said we could keep our insurance. He's also lying about people being able to afford Obamacare. Not enough healthy folks will join it willingly. They will change it.....as they already have numerous times.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> ...



Guy, they are also adding more revenue for the insurers in reuqiring everyone to buy in  

Look, this was the right's stupid idea.  

The left just wanted to make MediCare (which has much lower overheads than Private Insurance) applicable to everyone.  

It's like the old story of the Frog and teh Scorpion.   When the Frog (the rest of us) asked the Scorpion (big insurance) why he stung him, the Scorpion said, "It's my nature!"


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Taking into consideration that Obama never comes through with his promises, I figure that initially some may get a decent deal. Some. Not many. But eventually the price will skyrocket. Everything that government touches always does, historically.
> 
> Joe, I told you Obama was lying when he said we could keep our insurance. He's also lying about people being able to afford Obamacare. Not enough healthy folks will join it willingly. They will change it.....as they already have numerous times.



Every other country that has universal health care spends less than we do.   

So, no, not buying it.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



And Obama is the Scorpion. You're the frog. 

Yes, we've heard the story.

That's why I've never been stupid enough to believe Obama about anything, and he's proving this every day.

This isn't the right's idea you dumb asshole. They would have voted for it if it had been.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Taking into consideration that Obama never comes through with his promises, I figure that initially some may get a decent deal. Some. Not many. But eventually the price will skyrocket. Everything that government touches always does, historically.
> ...



Not every other country has a dick like Obama, backed by the Weather Underground, running their countries into the ground.

It's a tossup whether they're screwing this up on purpose or they're really this incompetent.


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## daveman (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
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And I keep telling you:

Bring it, you pussy.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
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> > mudwhistle said:
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Getting rid of your stupid cartoon because your crazy birther nonsense is largely why no one takes you seriously anymore.  

Sorry, ObamaCare was the right's idea. 

Nixon was the guy who wanted to expand private insurance when the Democrats wanted single payer. 

The Heritage Foundation wanted an individual mandate when Hillary wanted a public Option. 

And then Romney put those ideas together in RomneyCare.   And republians thought it was great... 

Until the Black Guy Did It.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 5, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> Not every other country has a dick like Obama, backed by the Weather Underground, running their countries into the ground.
> 
> It's a tossup whether they're screwing this up on purpose or they're really this incompetent.



Sorry, the only guy I saw running the country into the ground was your boy Bush.  

And when you talk about the "Weather Underground" like that's a real thing anymore, you kind of can't be taken seriously.  

you do get this, right  That you can't go off sounding like a loon and still get to sit at the grownup table?


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## Dot Com (Nov 5, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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in a nutshell, yeah. Repub voters are sooo transparent


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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> > JoeB131 said:
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I'm sure you have a ready made excuse for every Dem fuck up. 

The problems in Obama's first term were all Bush's fault.

Now it's the Tea Party's fault.


See a pattern????


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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See. Blaming Bush again.

And you think I'm not taken seriously. 

Trust me, my reputation is much better than goofballs like you.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> I'm sure you have a ready made excuse for every Dem fuck up.
> 
> ...



No, guy, what I see is perspective.  

Given my druthers, I'd have a single payer system like Canada has. (I think a complete nationalization of health care like the UK Has would be going too far.) this could have easily been acheived to expand MediCare to cover everyone. 

ObamaCare involved a whole bunch of concessions to private insurance because Big Insurance INSISTED that it be allowed to continue on as it has.  And because Big Insurance insisted it could do the job better than the Public Sector... And the GOP and far too many Democrats (Bayh, Leiberman) agreed with them. 

Except now it turns out it can't.   Once it's been told, "You can't cheat your customers with policies where you take their money and don't provide coverage", they just dropped policies like hot potatoes and let the government pick up those people.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



Guy, you've been here for four years, in a nice safe cocoon with your fellow nutters, and you thnk you have good reputation when you say crazy Birfer shit that would get you laughed at in the real world?  

Seriously?


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Kind of hard for "Big Insurance" to do the job when the government forces them to follow stupid regulations designed to make them operate in the red. 

You don't have the sense that God gave a pissaint. Obama knows that insurance companies renew all of their policies every year, and sometimes they have to change what they offer, which means that the new grandfather clause (that was inserted in the law after it was signed) would make many of the policies illegal. At first Democrats voted not to even have a grandfather clause, but pressure from voters forced them to put it in. Then they just changed it a few months later after it was signed. This is basically a Democrap thing. They knew what it would do.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



You could start a thread and put it to a vote. Let everyone vote who is more trustworthy. Joe Fucknuts or Mudwhistle.

I'm afraid you'd be very disappointed.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

The problem with you Joe, is you can't tell the difference between a joke and the truth.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> Kind of hard for "Big Insurance" to do the job when the government forces them to follow stupid regulations designed to *make them operate in the red*.
> 
> You don't have the sense that God gave a pissaint. Obama knows that insurance companies renew all of their policies every year, and sometimes they have to change what they offer, which means that the new grandfather clause (that was inserted in the law after it was signed) would make many of the policies illegal. At first Democrats voted not to even have a grandfather clause, but pressure from voters forced them to put it in. Then they just changed it a few months later after it was signed. This is basically a Democrap thing. They knew what it would do.



Here's the problem. 

Is the purpose to make profits for insurance companies or to provide health care to policyholders?  

"Oh, gosh, we can't cheat our customers anymore!  Or maybe we can, but maybe we can sabotage the law by dropping people and then offering them something more expensive later." 

Seriously, guy, why you think that the poor insurance companies are the victims here is baffling.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> You could start a thread and put it to a vote. Let everyone vote who is more trustworthy. Joe Fucknuts or Mudwhistle.
> 
> I'm afraid you'd be very disappointed.



Yeah, guy, the last time I tried a poll to see how "not crazy" the rank and file of USMB is when I honestly asked how many people really, really thought that Obama was born in Keyna. 

And found out that 25% of them thought he was and 25% were "not sure".


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



I'm sorry, but your reputation isn't going to get any better by lying about me or putting words in my mouth, which you constantly do.

I don't support insurance companies. I think they're dishonest and will screw you over at the drop of a hat. I passed my life insurance licensing test 20 years ago when I first retired from the military. I got out of the business really quick. It can be really cutthroat.

Insurance companies are in business to make money. That is a fact you libs can't seem to understand. The whole point of running a business is to make a friggen profit. Hopefully you can provide a product or service someone will pay you for. Unfortunately the Obama Administration knows this and gave them no choice other than screw over their subscribers. He knew that once Obamacare kicked in, once the mandates kicked in, insurance providers would be dropping subscribers in droves. You can't expect a company to lose money dumbass. They can't stay in business if they did. It's the law of economics. 

Jesus you're stupid.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



Whatever. Looks like you're stuttering. I think your resolve is going by the wayside, bud.

Obama was born in Hawaii, but his heart isn't in America.

I think Obama has some funny business going on with his bc. He might have had it changed so he could apply for college as a foreign student. Who knows what this lying prick has done.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> I'm sorry, but your reputation isn't going to get any better by lying about me or putting words in my mouth, which you constantly do.
> 
> I don't support insurance companies. I think they're dishonest and will screw you over at the drop of a hat. I passed my life insurance licensing test 20 years ago when I first retired from the military. I got out of the business really quick. It can be really cutthroat.
> 
> ...



So you found something else to fail at, then?  

the problem is, Medicare ALREADY provides good service without making a profit.  

Telling these companies they can't take their money and then cheat their customer isn't a burden, it's what we EXPECT government to do.  Otherwise, there's really no way businesses can survive and operate.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> Whatever. Looks like you're stuttering. I think your resolve is going by the wayside, bud.
> 
> ...


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, but your reputation isn't going to get any better by lying about me or putting words in my mouth, which you constantly do.
> ...



Medicare isn't a private business that doesn't rely on tax dollars to operate. It is also operating at a loss. Medicare also has this crazy habit of shafting doctors. When they do the doctors drop medicare patients when they grow tired of getting screwed over. 

I'm not sure what your point is other than you don't understand the difference between government and the private sector. Insurance companies don't have the resources that the government has. They are a slave to the market.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Medicare isn't a private business that doesn't rely on tax dollars to operate. It is also operating at a loss. Medicare also has this crazy habit of shafting doctors. When they do the doctors drop medicare patients when they grow tired of getting screwed over.
> 
> I'm not sure what your point is other than you don't understand the difference between government and the private sector. Insurance companies don't have the resources that the government has. They are a slave to the market.



Simple solution to that. You drop medicare patients, we yank your medical license.  Have a good time working at McDonalds, buddy! 

Sorry, paying doctors what it actually costs to provide the service is not screwing them. 

Frankly, you are making a good argument as to why we should just chuck private insurance and go single payer, even if you don't realize it.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



So you respond to my cartoon with a silly cartoon of your own. 

That's really effective.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Medicare isn't a private business that doesn't rely on tax dollars to operate. It is also operating at a loss. Medicare also has this crazy habit of shafting doctors. When they do the doctors drop medicare patients when they grow tired of getting screwed over.
> ...



Show me the law that says you can yank someone's license to practice if they don't deal with a dishonest government program. I'd like to see this. 

And paying what you think is fair should work for everyone. I could say that a cartload of groceries should only cost $5. Let Walmart settle for that.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



I think there's just nothing more to say to people who are soooo full of hate for this man that you will believe any crazy horseshit.  

Hey, you know, maybe instead of screaming crazy things to get me to vote against Obama, you might want to come up with good reasons why I should vote for your guys. 

Not helping big corporations screw me at every oppurtunity would be a good start.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> Show me the law that says you can yank someone's license to practice if they don't deal with a dishonest government program. I'd like to see this.
> 
> And paying what you think is fair should work for everyone. I could say that a cartload of groceries should only cost $5. Let Walmart settle for that.



It's a government license.  The government giveth, the government taketh away.  

And when Medicare is the only game in town, as I think it inevitably will be, they're just going to have to learn to stop whining.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



So oppressive government is what you like.

As long as it's somebody else getting screwed you support it.

Duly noted.

Freedom is a thing of the past.

Libs like you are pissing all over the Bill of Rights and you think you're justified. If brains where explosives you wouldn't have enough to blow your nose.

The less of you the the better is what I think.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Something to be said about ingrates that still believe his deceptions.

What are their real motivations? Hatred for Christians is probably yours.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> So oppressive government is what you like.
> 
> ...



Whenever I hear one of you jokers say "Freedom", I grab my wallet, as it usually means the "Freedom" of the rich to abuse the rest of us.  

Medicare works just fine. It provides good quality service to people private insurance wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole- namely Old and Sick People.  

And sorry, rich doctors and rich insurance companies I don't spend a lot of time worrying about.  They'll still be rich when this is all over.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

Doesn't the state issue medical licenses?


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



They'll be retired.

If driving doctors into retirement is your goal then you're doing a good job.

 By the way, if you hate the rich why do you support them so vehemently?

Obama and his cohorts are after all getting rich while standing on our throats.

Is it how you got rich that matters?

Lying to 300 million Americans or working hard to earn your money? Which I's more acceptable? Most doctors had work their asses off to become welloff. All Obama had to do was check his conscience at the door and lie his ass off, telling hateful bigotted numbnuts what they want to hear and then doing the opposite.


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## Toddsterpatriot (Nov 6, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> 
> OR
> 
> ...



There's too much freedom going on here.
The government needs to do something about that.
And they should get the IRS involved.


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## Stephanie (Nov 6, 2013)

so some site called wonkette is an expert on what is crappy and not crappy insurance

aren't you all impressed? Obama can tell us what insurance is good and bad, but Mrs. Blackburn well, how DARE she eh

those are the stupid kind of articles you get over there folks

don't go to that crappy site


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## hunarcy (Nov 6, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> Tennessee Rep. Marsha Blackburn Defends Sacred Right To Buy Cheap Shoes, Crappy Insurance[/url]



It's amusing to see the Left, who are so sure they are defending liberty, happily imposing their own definitions of what is "good insurance" on us without regard to what others believe.


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## Stephanie (Nov 6, 2013)

hunarcy said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > Tennessee Rep. Marsha Blackburn Defends Sacred Right To Buy Cheap Shoes, Crappy Insurance[/url]
> ...



they are just being good little comrades to their party and Dear Leader
must spread the crap no matter how stupid


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## flacaltenn (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



My doctor right now clears LESS per visit from insurance and Medicare reimbursement than my Veterinarian does.. 

I found a charge for a $22 blood draw that was kicked down to $3 by the insurance companies.. Try running a private practice with those kind of margins.. Or a $130 visit charge knocked down to $30.. You can't get a plumber to show up for $30.

JoeB deserves only a NURSE PRACTITIONER at the rates that he thinks "are fair".. And that's exactly what we're all gonna get if we allow Govt to redesign our health care system on the basis of "fairness".


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## dblack (Nov 6, 2013)

Toddsterpatriot said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > What about my rights to not use part of my tax monies to compensate for losses due to  cheap insurance that doesn't fully pay the bill?
> ...



Extreeeeeme right screeactionary!!!!


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## Stephanie (Nov 6, 2013)




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## freedombecki (Nov 6, 2013)

dblack said:


> Toddsterpatriot said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...


Truth not your friend, hm, DBlack.   Tch, tch, tch!


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## dblack (Nov 6, 2013)

freedombecki said:


> dblack said:
> 
> 
> > Toddsterpatriot said:
> ...



Racist!


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...


Oh.  Then you OPPOSE Obamacare.  Because that's what it does.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

OnePercenter said:


> The only policies that are being terminated are 'crap' policies.


Yes, that's what you were told to say.  And like an obedient sheep, you repeat it.  

Another Obama Ass-Suck.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Medicare isn't a private business that doesn't rely on tax dollars to operate. It is also operating at a loss. Medicare also has this crazy habit of shafting doctors. When they do the doctors drop medicare patients when they grow tired of getting screwed over.
> ...


Why not just pass a law that doctors have to keep practicing, no matter what?

Why not just draft people into the medical profession?  "Hey, kid -- you're gonna be a surgeon.  Study hard."

That's what progressivism always leads to.  Complete government control over individual lives.


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## Stephanie (Nov 6, 2013)

daveman said:


> OnePercenter said:
> 
> 
> > The only policies that are being terminated are 'crap' policies.
> ...



how sad a person needs a politician to tell them what to think and they just follow like sheep

no thinking required


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Doesn't the state issue medical licenses?



Hey!  No fair injecting facts into one of PinkoJoe's I-hate-freedom!! rants.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

Stephanie said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > OnePercenter said:
> ...



If you ever wonder what it's like to have no self-respect -- talk to a progressive.  They'll show you.


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## Stephanie (Nov 6, 2013)

daveman said:


> Stephanie said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



no kidding, they just don't follow the party they grovel at their feet

it's embarrassing, but that doesn't stop them


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## Dot Com (Nov 6, 2013)

Marsha should denounce her socialist plan for life if she wants legitimacy.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> They'll be retired.
> 
> ...



Old doctors retiring is a good thing, guy.  Make room for some fresh blood.  

Now, frankly, I'm really kind of getting tired of indulging your brand of crazy.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

daveman said:


> [
> Why not just pass a law that doctors have to keep practicing, no matter what?
> 
> Why not just draft people into the medical profession?  "Hey, kid -- you're gonna be a surgeon.  Study hard."
> ...



Works for me.  Pretty much how the British do it, and they get better results spending half as much.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...


Good Gaea, you really HATE freedom.

This is undeniable.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
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> > [
> ...



Likewise.

Everything you say just doesn't make any sense.

You want to get rid of doctors now. How do you plan to replace them? Just pencil-whip their test scores?

Yeah, I want an unqualified quack working on me. That's a real good solution according to Joefuckstain.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Yup, apparently the British live in a police state!


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> [
> 
> Likewise.
> 
> ...



I'd rather have a fresh graduate from a medical school who learned the latest techniques than some old quack who is still doing whatever he learned back in the 1970's.  

Fact is, we aren't going to get rid of any doctors.  They'll whine and bitch  how they can't buy mansions, but they'll suck it up like the rest of us have to.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



"Complete government control over individual lives."

"Works for me."

Eat shit, Commie bastard.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Last time I checked, they took an oath to save lives. 

If you can point out the part where, "I'll only do it if I can make a shitload of money", you might have a point.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > [
> ...



The only doctor in my area that I liked retired. The rest of them suck eggs. He's the one that discovered my wife had a heart-murmur and saved her life. 

I love the way one of the so-called compassionate liberals can be so flippant about life and death.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Yes, we know you loath freedom, and believe everyone should be slaves to the State.  You've made that quite clear.  

I don't have the words to adequately express my contempt for you.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...


Progressivism is a death cult.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



What you loath is the fact that the only reason a pathetic creature like you survives is because you live in a society of decent human beings that make sure you get your monthly welfare check.  

I find it hilarious somoene who has spent his entire adult life sucking off the government teet spends so much time talking about "Freedom".   It's hilarious.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

Muddy, nice to see you lose your mind... because you've lost the argument.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Muddy, nice to see you lose your mind... because you've lost the argument.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

Joefuckstain thinks he's winning.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yup... you've lost it.  

Hey, here try to get you back on track. 

"Freedom".... "the Constitution"... "Founding Fathers!"  

Seriously, man, these catchphrases always help defend the indefensible...


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Joefuckstain thinks he's winning.



No, I know I have. 

You don't have an argument anymore,other than the same tired platitudes of "Freedom" like 

"I want to have the freedom to be totally cheated by a big insurance company."


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Yup... you've lost it.
> 
> Hey, here try to get you back on track.
> 
> ...



Pot meet kettle.

That's the problem with you dude.

They ain't catch-phrases.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Yup... you've lost it.
> ...



In your case, they are. 

I frankly don't consider it "Freedom" to be cheated by a big insurance company, which HAS happened to me in my life.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

Whatever......

I just get a kick out of this headline.......

*Barack Obama, More Unpopular Than George W. Bush?*





In George W. Bushs fifth year his administration was under fire for an increasingly unpopular war in Iraq and what was widely seen as a botched response to Hurricane Katrina. His approval ratings were abysmal on historic proportions, we were told.

Which is something to keep in mind when you consider that President Obamas approval ratings are now lower in his 5th year than Bushs were: Barack Obama, More Unpopular Than George W. Bush? | Say Anything


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

I'm sure you do.... 

But here's the thing.  Bush had bodies floating down the river at this point in his term.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Phffffffft.

Nite nite sparky.


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

Yup, keep sucking off the government teet, you ingrate.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Sheer projection.  


JoeB131 said:


> I find it hilarious somoene who has spent his entire adult life sucking off the government teet spends so much time talking about "Freedom".   It's hilarious.


I wish you weren't such a pussy.  Then you'd move to Cuba, the Worker's Paradise you long for.

But no, you're too big a pussy.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 6, 2013)

Nice dodge, Dave. 

But you've been collecting money from the Government you hate your entire life. 

Doesn't that kind of make you a hypocrite?


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Yup... you've lost it.
> 
> Hey, here try to get you back on track.
> 
> ...


You know how you like to say you're not a Communist?

You're wrong.


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## daveman (Nov 6, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > Joefuckstain thinks he's winning.
> ...



As opposed to the freedom you want:

"I want the government to make all my life's decisions for me."

You never have explained how that's freedom.  Well, I suppose it is freedom from thinking for yourself.  You never have liked doing that.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 7, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Nice dodge, Dave.
> 
> *But you've been collecting money from the Government you hate your entire life.
> *
> Doesn't that kind of make you a hypocrite?



I can tell when someone starts having a meltdown. 

They start posting run-on sentences.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Yup... you've lost it.
> ...



No, I just don't see the problem the way you do. 

Here's how I see the problem. 

First, is health care a consumer commodity, that only those who earn it should have access to, or a fundimental public service that everyone should have access to?  The answer to this question is obviously the latter.  The stupidity that we let poor people die of treatable diseases because they are poor is a very bad reflection on us as a society.  

Second, once we've established the first point (and frankly, it's not even one your side is really arguing, other than the few fringe nutbags) then the question becomes, what is the best way to assure everyone has access?  The rest of the world has figured this out. They have single payer in Canada, the UK, Japan, France.  Germany and Holland have a series of private and public programs that cover everyone.  

ObamaCare is a half-measure that reflects our system is very hard to reform and we have very entrenched special interests protecting a status quo they really can't defend.  But it's also a failing one. Employers were having a hard time keeping up with their foreign competitors whose government have already figured this out. 

So really, I see it as an incremental step in the right direction.


----------



## daveman (Nov 7, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Nice dodge, Dave.
> 
> But you've been collecting money from the Government you hate your entire life.
> 
> Doesn't that kind of make you a hypocrite?



No, but it makes you stupid.

I've never said I hate the government.  I want it to return to what it was designed to do in the Constitution -- that document you hate so much.

Meanwhile, you've been living in America, the country you hate, your entire life.

Doesn't that kind of make you a hypocrite?


----------



## mudwhistle (Nov 7, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > mudwhistle said:
> ...



I think he's saying that freedom is bad.

He likes making fun of freedom loving people in this country. 

Here's some words he appears to hate:

Freedom
America
Liberty
Constitution
Patriotism
Honesty
Success
Religion
Christianity
Family
Security


You get the picture.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice dodge, Dave.
> ...



I can tell someone is having a meltdown when they don't understand what a run-on sentence is.  

I'll give you a hint. A run on sentence is several sentences connected with conjunctions. 

Example

"Muddy was a selfish asshole but he can't deal with being a selfish asshole so he makes a bunch of claims everyone who disagrees with him is a communist but when no one is buying that except for his fellow knuckled draggers he resorts to posting silly gifs and cartoons that kind of show him to be a psycho and then he gets all upset and forgets what he was totally arguing..."  

See how that works?


----------



## daveman (Nov 7, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


You're right, in a way.  ACA is a step towards nationalization of the healthcare industry.  It was designed to fail so retards like you would clamor for government takeover.

And that is NOT the right direction.  Commie morons think it is, but it really isn't.


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## daveman (Nov 7, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Indeed.  He'd really be happier in Cuba where he wouldn't be exposed to those scary things.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice dodge, Dave.
> ...



Where does it say in the constitution that you should get a pension for life beause you served once pushing papers... 

We'll wait.  

In fact, the first military pensions weren't instituted until after the Civil War.


----------



## daveman (Nov 7, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...


Do you REALLY want to play this game?

Where in the Constitution does it say government should run your healthcare?

Where in the Constitution does it say government should assign jobs?

Where in the Constitution does it say government should redistribute wealth?

You lose, kid.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 7, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> daveman said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



Where does it say in the Constitution that people should be guaranteed health insurance?


----------



## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Guy, you are missing the point. 

I don't think we shouldn't do something that needs to be done because 200 years ago, some Slave Rapist didn't think of it.  

That's your position.  The government should ONLY do what's in the constitution.  

Nothing about military pensions in the constitution, but you aren't sending the check back. 

As a reality, the Slave Rapists thought good medical care was roots and leeches.  I don't think that I would want their advice on how to run a medical system for 300 million people.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



I don't care what the constitution says on the issue.  The Constitution gave us a Congress that could invoke laws, and that's exactly what they did. 

Again, I think all you guys who INSIST on Constitutional Medical Care should just get the medical care that was available in 1787.   I think that involved bleeding people to remove "bad humours".   

My guess, though, that if your private insurance cancelled your coverage, you and Dave would run to the nearest VA hospital and ask for treatment.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 7, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> mudwhistle said:
> 
> 
> > JoeB131 said:
> ...



The VA is probably the last place I would go.

BTW, if you don't like the VA, you'd better get used to waiting years for treatment. That's what Obamacare is going to deliver.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2013)

Sure.  

Actually, VA hospitals are rated amongst the best in teh country, have no idea what you are talking about. 

The Best Care Anywhere - Phillip Longman



> And so it goes today. If the debate is over health-care reform, it won't be long before some free-market conservative will jump up and say that the sorry shape of the nation's veterans hospitals just proves what happens when government gets into the health-care business. And if he's a true believer, he'll then probably go on to suggest, quoting William Safire and other free marketers, that the government should just shut down the whole miserable system and provide veterans with health-care vouchers.
> 
> Yet here's a curious fact that few conservatives or liberals know. Who do you think receives higher-quality health care. Medicare patients who are free to pick their own doctors and specialists? Or aging veterans stuck in those presumably filthy VA hospitals with their antiquated equipment, uncaring administrators, and incompetent staff? An answer came in 2003, when the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine published a study that compared veterans health facilities on 11 measures of quality with fee-for-service Medicare. On all 11 measures, the quality of care in veterans facilities proved to be "significantly better."
> 
> ...


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## mudwhistle (Nov 7, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Sure.
> 
> Actually, VA hospitals are rated amongst the best in teh country, have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> ...



First you have to get an appointment.

That seems to be the problem.

It took 6 months just to get an initial checkup. At least that was what it was like when I checked in 94'. Latest I've heard is it's worse now.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2013)

Yeah,there were problems back in the 1990's after a decade of Reagan/Bush neglect.  

Today they are rated the highest in the country. 

Now, the main reason I don't use them is I haev an insurance plan and frankly, those resources should be there for guys who lost limbs and suffered traumatic injuries, not guys like me who shuffled paper all day.


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## mudwhistle (Nov 7, 2013)

JoeB131 said:


> Yeah,there were problems back in the 1990's after a decade of Reagan/Bush neglect.
> 
> Today they are rated the highest in the country.
> 
> Now, the main reason I don't use them is I haev an insurance plan and frankly, those resources should be there for guys who lost limbs and suffered traumatic injuries, not guys like me who shuffled paper all day.



The treatment was good. It just wasn't readily available.

Nowadays it it even worse. The average waiting period has doubled.


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## P@triot (Nov 7, 2013)

daveman said:


> JoeB131 said:
> 
> 
> > daveman said:
> ...



Once again we see the profound ignorance of Joe "provide for me" B.

The Constitution specifically cites defense as the responsibility of the federal government. That authorizes them to make damn near limitless decisions about the military - including providing well deserved pensions.

I've never seen someone making weaker, more pitiful arguments than desperate Joe "provide for me" B.


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## P@triot (Nov 7, 2013)

mudwhistle said:


> Whatever......
> 
> I just get a kick out of this headline.......
> 
> ...



No shock here - Americans are not going to like a radical marxist once they see they unemployment, poverty, oppression, and misery he brings our nation.


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## JoeB131 (Nov 7, 2013)

Rottweiler said:


> [
> 
> Once again we see the profound ignorance of Joe "provide for me" B.
> 
> ...



If pensions were a great idea, why were they not invented until recently? 

In fact, if you want to back to your heroes, the Founding Slave Rapists, George Washington argued against a standing army.  He thought it should be militias altogether.


http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_12s6.html

Altho' a large standing Army in time of Peace hath ever been considered dangerous to the liberties of a Country, yet a few Troops, under certain circumstances, are not only safe, but indispensably necessary. Fortunately for us our relative situation requires but few. - George Washington...

http://www.history.army.mil/books/AMH-V1/ch05.htm

THE NEWBURGH "CONSPIRACY"

     Mutiny was in the air on March 15, 1783. Having suffered through years of deprivation, many soldiers
 were angry that the Continental Congress seemed unwilling to pay them their salaries or to fulfill pledges for 
postwar pensions. When Washington learned that the Army&#8217;s officers planned to meet to threaten the Con-
gress, he decided to crash the party. Just as the meeting was about to begin, Washington entered the room 
and made a speech urging the officers to remain loyal. Seeing that many remained unswayed, he took out a
 letter, hesitated, and then reached into his pocket to produce a pair of glasses, explaining, "Gentlemen, you 
will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have not only grown gray but almost blind in the service of my 
country." This simple act accomplished what his oratory had not. Ashamed and teary eyed, the assembled 
officers immediately pledged their loyalty to Congress. Mutiny had been avoided.


http://files.libertyfund.org/pll/quotes/113.html


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