# Eye Of The ZOMBIE.....XP STILL ROCKING ON!



## Tom Horn (Apr 11, 2016)

My 2008 Dell Demension E521 with XP (SP3) still humming along like the first day it arrived.  I beefed up the memory and use Firefox, which in my opinion is why I'm still able to use XP.  Most if not all of Windows problems come through using IE.  CCcleaner and Malwarebytes along with a very aggressive AV complete the security end.  I also use an air compressor to blow dust out of the tower every other month and let it rest 6 hours a night.  Am I timid about where I post and get my streaming?  Nope...using some common sense, I go anywhere I please.....along with over 181,000,000 other ZOMBIE diehards.  

_The 12% represented approximately 181 million PCs when compared against the 1.5 billion Windows personal computers worldwide, a number that Microsoft has regularly cited.

That number put XP as No. 4 among Microsoft's editions, behind Windows 7, which powered an estimated 861 million systems, Windows 10 (235 million), and Windows 8/8.1 (199 million)._







Zombie OS: Windows XP still powers 181M PCs two years after support ends


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## Ringel05 (Apr 11, 2016)

Windows XP Is Still a Favorite Among Hackers

Psst.....  Using Firefox or Chrome won't help, that's not where the XP vulnerabilities are........


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## CremeBrulee (Apr 11, 2016)

It's sooo blue... and bright.  I had to put my sunglasses on.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 11, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


> Windows XP Is Still a Favorite Among Hackers
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> Psst.....  Using Firefox or Chrome won't help, that's not where the XP vulnerabilities are........



Bah.....it's exactly where the vulnerabilities are.  I don't know if you've used FireFox but when it finds a counterfeit page it red flags you....proceed at your peril.  I used IE for years and was hit numerous times on sites you wouldn't suspect.  Since Mozilla entered the picture, I don't even get the POP's anymore.  Most of the "vulnerabilities" claims are MS propaganda.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 11, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


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I've been using Firefox for decades and the red flag isn't always correct and doesn't always pick up attack sites.  Besides, if you know anything about how computers are infected and it appears you don't, you'd know that with it just leaving it turned on and not even being on the net it can still be hacked.  Hackers use the known vulnerabilities, send out "wake up" packets, find the vulnerability and take advantage of it.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 11, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


> I've been using Firefox for decades and the red flag isn't always correct and doesn't always pick up attack sites.  Besides, if you know anything about how computers are infected and it appears you don't, you'd know that with it just leaving it turned on and not even being on the net it can still be hacked.  Hackers use the known vulnerabilities, send out "wake up" packets, find the vulnerability and take advantage of it.



It appears I know more about how I've been hacked than you ever could and I haven't been since FireFox.  Don't try to pull some horseshit rank on me here.....I've been using this system for 8 years and know what's up with it.  I listed my security program but didn't name my AV since you or some other poster might use that to your advantage.  My registry is checked every morning and I clean out my cookies and add-ons before shutting down.  I'm not saying I can't get hacked and if I am, since I never access my banking or CC information online, they don't get squat.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 11, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


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I wasn't tying to "one up" you, simply trying to get you to see your sense of security is based on a false presumption so no need to get your feathers all in a ruffle.  As for not using it for banking that's a smart move on your part.  I would not use if for my advantage, former law enforcement with extensive knowledge in how hacking occurs so, again, your apparent assumption and defensive attitude is not called for.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 11, 2016)

XP is fine.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 11, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


> I wasn't tying to "one up" you, simply trying to get you to see your sense of security is based on a false presumption so no need to get your feathers all in a ruffle.  As for not using it for banking that's a smart move on your part.  I would not use if for my advantage, former law enforcement with extensive knowledge in how hacking occurs so, again, your apparent assumption and defensive attitude is not called for.



You said I didn't understand how I'd get hacked....pretty bold assumption since you only know what I've told you about my XP security.  I replied in kind which I guess you didn't expect.  No harm, no foul.  I also use a registry sweep that returns it to default settings....no way a trojan horse can lurk in there with this:  sfc /scanfile=c:\windows\system32\services.exe


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## Ringel05 (Apr 11, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


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> > I wasn't tying to "one up" you, simply trying to get you to see your sense of security is based on a false presumption so no need to get your feathers all in a ruffle.  As for not using it for banking that's a smart move on your part.  I would not use if for my advantage, former law enforcement with extensive knowledge in how hacking occurs so, again, your apparent assumption and defensive attitude is not called for.
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Hey, whatever floats your boat, was simply trying to help, obviously you think trojans are the only threat out there......  Good luck, hopefully your computer isn't already a bot right now.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 11, 2016)

Bleipriester said:


> XP is fine.


Yeah but basically wide open, to many vulnerabilities that can be exploited in any number of ways.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 11, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


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If you have been hacked you have attracted someone´s attention in the normal case.
I personally think that XP is save to use. It has over a decade of extensive usage behind it with plenty of vulnerabilities discovered and fixed. In reality, it could be saver than any other OS.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 11, 2016)

Bleipriester said:


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Not with new vulnerabilities discovered since M$ stopped patches.  You wouldn't use WEP to secure your wifi would you?


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## Bleipriester (Apr 11, 2016)

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Yes, I would. The professional hacking my network doesn´t care and the noob trying to get in will fail anyway. So called Penetration Testing Distributions provide the tools you need to hack a w-lan with little effort. 
As for XP, I recommend XP x64 that combines the safety of Windows 2003 (uses the 2003 kernel) and the compatibility of XP.
It has not the best third party driver support, though.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 11, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


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Very little is going to stop a determined professional hacker and that's not what I meant by it.  I guess I should have ask if the majority of normal users would use WEP, they wouldn't.  
As for XP being secure...... we'll have to agree to disagree, the vast majority of bots are still XP run machines which are still in major use around the world.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 11, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


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I don´t think that the OS the bots are running on, matters.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 11, 2016)

Bleipriester said:


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My point is that XP is more susceptible to being turned into a bot than the preceding releases, read the link I provided the OP.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 12, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


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Really? Half of the infected PCs in the article do not run XP and it is the same bot.


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## iamwhatiseem (Apr 12, 2016)

Last I heard approx. 40% of businesses are still using Windows XP.
In all honesty - can you imagine them using Windows 10??? With all of the startup problems, system freezes, software freezes?? It would be like going back to Windows 95.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 12, 2016)

MS screwed Windows to create a cross platform system but it is unsuccessful in the mobile sector and all the efforts are in vain. If I had a say there I would make a new Windows without harassment and unnecessary stuff, leaving advanced stuff to third party developers.


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## iamwhatiseem (Apr 12, 2016)

Bleipriester said:


> MS screwed Windows to create a cross platform system but it is unsuccessful in the mobile sector and all the efforts are in vain. If I had a say there I would make a new Windows without harassment and unnecessary stuff, leaving advanced stuff to third party developers.



Windows wants data-mining revenue and they are going in that direction (obviously) 
The amount of data that Cortana send to Microsoft is for _some_ reason, and that reason has most certainly to do with $$. Before Ringel05 turned me on to the fix he found - my Cortana was sending 10MB or more on each start up. It is still eating 20-50MB of RAM...but the network data has been 0MB ever since. Undoubtedly something Microsoft will "fix" in an upcoming update. 
  They turned their OS into a datamining machine of users everywhere. Nothing could convince me this is not for monetary reasons.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 12, 2016)

iamwhatiseem said:


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True. Big trend nowadays. On the other hand, it is useless to complain while holding a smartphone in hands.

Let me remember you of this thread:
Privacy: Stay away from Windows 10


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

MS hasn't totally abandoned us XP users.  I have been getting their malicious software removal tool updates right along including 3 yesterday which was an odd number....if I wanted to use IE to see what updates they did I could but I won't use it again.  I have a feeling they sneaked another patch or two in including an Adobe Flash fix.  I have a Dell Latitude D630 laptop with W7 on it I picked up on Amazon for $130 6 months ago and am learning my way around 7.  Nice little unit...looks brand new from Tampa Laptops.   I may have to use it to see my games on MLB TV since they've changed their streams to accommodate phone apps.  Who'd want to watch a ballgame on a smart phone I don't know but I guess many do.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


> Hey, whatever floats your boat, was simply trying to help, obviously you think trojans are the only threat out there......  Good luck, hopefully your computer isn't already a bot right now.



The only time I know of being used as a bot was back in 2002 when my home page was mysteriously changed to a kiddie-porn address.    I was new to W98 and discovered what had happened by accident.  Thank God some law enforcement agency didn't nail me to the barn wall for being a pervert.  Another time I really got hit and couldn't even get online....MS dial-up wouldn't allow me back until I cleaned it up....the bug locked Norton out, defeated Malwarebytes after a lengthy struggle that killed parts of it, and wouldn't allow me to get into Safe-Mode to do a system restore.  That one resulted in a hard drive wipe that woke me up to the reality of internet dirtbags.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 14, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


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Once a year at minimum I wipe my hard drives and reinstall whatever OS I'm using.  Of course I'm fairly good at putting my personal stuff on an external drive, DVD or thumb drive so that's not a concern if the HDD goes bad of it gets infected/hijacked.
With this laptop I'm on now I've been playing with it over the last month, had originally downgraded it from 8.1 to 7 a year ago when I bought it, not long ago allowed it to upgrade to 10 because the Win 7 wifi drivers didn't work properly on the Win 8 machine.  Win 10 seemed to work okay at first then starting having problems so I reloaded Win 7, musta use the wrong disc cause it wouldn't authenticate.  Got pissed at that (one of M$'s biggest fuck-ups) and loaded Linux Ubuntu on it.  Tried a couple of different Linux distros till settling on Ubuntu.  
To make a long story short, I went back and forth between Ubuntu and Windows, even let it upgrade to 10 again till one day I turned it on and could not get online after one of their mandatory updates.  Now I'm running Ubuntu and unless something changes drastically with Windows this is where I'll stay.


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## iamwhatiseem (Apr 14, 2016)

The end of XP will happen when Firefox stops updating it. It is the only browser left that still updates.
When that happens...websites stop working fast.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 14, 2016)

iamwhatiseem said:


> The end of XP will happen when Firefox stops updating it. It is the only browser left that still updates.
> When that happens...websites stop working fast.


Really? Isn´t Google supporting XP anymore? I tried Firefox 42 x64 on XP x64 but it says it requires Windows 7. Cyberfox requires Vista. I also have Waterfox 15, the last 64 Bit Firefox working on XP x64. 
Normally, XP doesn´t require any form of support and programs just run.


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## iamwhatiseem (Apr 14, 2016)

Bleipriester said:


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Chrome stopped supporting it's browser on XP at least a month ago.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

Firefox has upgraded for me recently with XP32....the adblocker is an important feature on a site called "couchtuner".  I'm more concerned about Norton because if I don't have a proper AVS I won't get or send mail.  I tried Chrome when I first gave up on IE but it seemed awkward and overbearing.  Maybe it's because they've tried to be my browser when I updated Adobe Flash; you have to make sure to uncheck that little box before the download begins.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 14, 2016)

iamwhatiseem said:


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OK. Chrome 49 still supports XP & Vista. 50 doesn´t.


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## iamwhatiseem (Apr 14, 2016)

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All I know is the Chrome I have everytime I launch it it says "Chrome no longer supports this browser running on XP..."


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

A XP quirk I just discovered after all these years is that if a stream is taking a long time to (DSL) download, I can speed it up by opening the task manager on the "performance" tab.  I don't do anything, just let it sit there. It seems when I do the CPU usage dives and the program completes.    Anybody know what's happening, if anything, with that?


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## Bleipriester (Apr 14, 2016)

iamwhatiseem said:


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I just downloaded Chrome *49 *and it is* 50*!


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## iamwhatiseem (Apr 14, 2016)

I give XP another year at most before it is completely abandoned like Win 98 / 2000.
At that point it will only be useful for non-internet uses like playing old games.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 14, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


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Nonsense.

The issue is zero ring. XP is built on the OS/2 (NT) kernal. One of the goals of the system was to create a polymorphic OS that could be deployed across a wide variety of devices. I don't mean computers, I mean everything from copying machines to sprinkler systems, to lathes and mills. The power of the OS was the ability to rewrite the core functions as needed. This wasn't a flaw, it was the point. But anyone with the skill could rewrite the core functions, which means virus writers and other bad guys. XP and any NT core machine will always be vulnerable to that sort of attack.  

Starting with Windows Vista, Microsoft moved to the Longhorn kernal. It has a locked zero ring. It cannot be highjacked, nor can it be customized the way OS/2 could be. 

The web browser had nothing to do with the vulnerability of XP, it was the kernal.


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## iamwhatiseem (Apr 14, 2016)

Uncensored2008 said:


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Pheh...Linux does that better because the kernel itself can be morphed to fit a particular purpose..which also means the OS can be as tiny and therefore specific as you want it to be.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 14, 2016)

iamwhatiseem said:


> I give XP another year at most before it is completely abandoned like Win 98 / 2000.
> At that point it will only be useful for non-internet uses like playing old games.



There are a million non-desktop devices running XP. The controller for curing ovens in my shop will be XP until it needs to be replaced. The Xerox copiers throughout the plant will run XP until they are replaced. People have no idea how many embedded controllers run Windows XP.


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## Uncensored2008 (Apr 14, 2016)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Pheh...Linux does that better because the kernel itself can be morphed to fit a particular purpose..which also means the OS can be as tiny and therefore specific as you want it to be.



Linux is definitely what is replacing XP in embedded controllers.


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## iamwhatiseem (Apr 14, 2016)

Uncensored2008 said:


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Ans should be, and I don't mean that in a "anti-Microsoft" way. 
The Linux kernel is superior to MS's in this sense...simply because it is open, and therefore can be reduced/morphed in whatever way you need it. 
This is also why the best boot loaders and boot repair tools are Linux...they are tiny Linux OS's that exist only for that purpose.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Nonsense.
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> The issue is zero ring. XP is built on the OS/2 (NT) kernal. One of the goals of the system was to create a polymorphic OS that could be deployed across a wide variety of devices. I don't mean computers, I mean everything from copying machines to sprinkler systems, to lathes and mills. The power of the OS was the ability to rewrite the core functions as needed. This wasn't a flaw, it was the point. But anyone with the skill could rewrite the core functions, which means virus writers and other bad guys. XP and any NT core machine will always be vulnerable to that sort of attack.
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"nonsense"?    If an XP user stopped going online how would they be hacked?  The browser is the whole enchalada, not some zero-ring NONSENSE.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

iamwhatiseem said:


> I give XP another year at most before it is completely abandoned like Win 98 / 2000.
> At that point it will only be useful for non-internet uses like playing old games.



Not until Norton and Firefox abandon us and I see no indication that's going to happen.  Read the numbers in the OP....181M machines (almost the same as 8.1)...nobody in their right mind gives up on those numbers without somebody else stepping up to replace them.  And the XP numbers are holding steady despite all the dire forecasts from MS.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 14, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


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You don't have to be online, all you have to do is be connected to the internet and have the device powered up (even if it's in sleep mode).


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## Ringel05 (Apr 14, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


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You use Norton?  There are free and much cheaper alternatives that are just as good if not better.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 14, 2016)

Windows XP will always be able to access the internet.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


> You don't have to be online, all you have to do is be connected to the internet and have the device powered up (even if it's in sleep mode).



Remember the part where I said my box gets 6 hours of sleep a night?  One of the first clients of mine with an online business told me never to let the computer sit idle at night....that's when the euro-trash and slants are hard at it.  Plus the rest keeps the fan from working overtime because when that starts failing, the capacitors start to heat up and bulge.


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## IsaacNewton (Apr 14, 2016)

I'd rate XP as the most stable Windows iteration. Win 7 is next. The rest are embarrassments. Windows 8 was so bad they skipped Windows 9 so the public would think it's been years since you had to use Windows 8.

How can you have unlimited resources and money to hire the best, by far, software people money can buy, and you still produce mediocrity. While other people with far less resources can produce great stuff.

Note: For anyone that has gotten the Windows 10 forced upgrade thing you can end that by finding and deleting update KB3035583.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


> You use Norton?  There are free and much cheaper alternatives that are just as good if not better.



It's free with my DSL from Centurylink....I always hear Norton is this and that, but I'm liking the price and the newer one I have, (not 360) is quite good.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

IsaacNewton said:


> I'd rate XP as the most stable Windows iteration. Win 7 is next. The rest are embarrassments. Windows 8 was so bad they skipped Windows 9 so the public would think it's been years since you had to use Windows 8.
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> Note: For anyone that has gotten the Windows 10 forced upgrade thing you can end that by finding and deleting update KB3035583.



Windows engineers got caught up in the "cutting edge" game and forgot what their customers wanted and relied on is my bet.   XP is like an AK-47, (not the 74), throw it in lake, bury it in mud, beat it against a tree....it will still power up and sit there waiting for you to wake up too.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 14, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


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Yeah, that's well known but it only takes being online once.  Again, just trying to get you to see your faith in XP is pretty much wishful thinking unless you never go online with it and it has no wifi or ethernet cable connected that can be remotely turned on.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


> Yeah, that's well known but it only takes being online once.  Again, just trying to get you to see your faith in XP is pretty much wishful thinking unless you never go online with it and it has no wifi or ethernet cable connected that can be remotely turned on.



Like I said, I know the risks and am less apprehensive now that I know I can function with W7.  Still, and this may seem bizarre, when I pull out the laptop, I throw a towel over the Dimension desktop so she can't see me cheating on her.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

Ringel05 said:


> Yeah, that's well known but it only takes being online once.  Again, just trying to get you to see your faith in XP is pretty much wishful thinking unless you never go online with it and it has no wifi or ethernet cable connected that can be remotely turned on.



I'm confident my router can't be hacked....passcode protected and I've never used the wifi aspect of it....when I use the laptop online, I plug the DSL cable into it.  If I'm running slow I always check to make sure I'm the single user.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 14, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


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Like I’ve said before, what ever you choose for you is right for you, I just know using XP is quadrupling your risk.  
I couldn't run XP if I wanted (and I don't), all five of my computers are too new to run it properly.  Even running XP mode in Win 7 on my very fast and powerful gaming desktop is slow as molasses in winter. 
What's strange is while I had issues with Win 10 on my laptop and gaming desktop we've had no problems with Win 10 on the Lenovo Yoga 2 or my wife's (slightly) older laptop.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 14, 2016)

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XP Mode is hardware emulation, pretty much like Virtual PC 2007, but the layer is not visible. Hardware emulation requires a lot of your PC's performance.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 14, 2016)

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Yeah, I noticed.


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## IsaacNewton (Apr 14, 2016)

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And emulation rarely works correctly. Some old programs work fine, others you get a long list of weird things going on. On old game I tried on Win 7 had various colored 'speckles' on screen.


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## Tom Horn (Apr 14, 2016)

Maybe I should add that I never touched a computer until I was 54.   You tech marvels most likely grew up with them....not me.   In fact, for a couple years I pretended to know what computer users were talking about when I didn't....kind of like an illiterate pretending he can read a newspaper. 

So all I really know are W98 and XP and enough 7-Pro to get by if I have to and eventually will full time.  But the truth is this old Dimension E521 was all I had and could afford after the 2008 financial massacre and other than a new mouse and monitor, it's been a trouble-free workhorse and I expect it to see 2017, Lord willing and the creeks don't rise.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 14, 2016)

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Windows is emulating a very weak GPU.


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## Ringel05 (Apr 14, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


> Maybe I should add that I never touched a computer until I was 54.   You tech marvels most likely grew up with them....not me.   In fact, for a couple years I pretended to know what computer users were talking about when I didn't....kind of like an illiterate pretending he can read a newspaper.
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I'm almost 62, started learning computers on my own about 18-20 years ago, most of what I know is self taught and most of the people posting in this thread know scads more than I do in many areas.  Compared to them I'm a hobbyist. While I do know about lots of computer related things I don't know how to do or find many.  Like I know how viruses, etc work and how they are delivered, as for checking a system using advanced tools..... haven't a clue.  I can load and configure operating systems based on the options available via GIF but I have no idea how to code or even set up macros, never done either.
I can take computers apart and rebuild them or build new systems, it's not hard with a little research and a little knowledge of what to look for.  That knowledge was gained due to necessity, I've always wanted to see how things worked and managed to screw up a few computers experimenting. 

Some here think I'm some computer guru, not true however I am pretty savvy about using Google to find solutions.......


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## Bleipriester (Apr 14, 2016)

I figured out that Chrome is not good for XP x64.

You will get this on each secured https conection and you can´t proceed to the link when clicking advanced:





So I tried to get around this nonsense.
Result: Chrome does not allow https on XP with Service Pack 3 not installed. And now guess:
XP x64 doesn´t have a Service Pack 3. SP2 for Windows 2003/XP x64 includes the stuff of SP3 but this is not Chrome´s point...

For the interested:
Chrome 50 on XP 64 does show an error message about some entry point that cannot be found in a Windows dll.


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## Bleipriester (Apr 15, 2016)

Good news:
Waterfox supports XP x64 again! You can use it on other x64 editions of Windows as well, of course.

Waterfox - The fastest 64-Bit browser on the web


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## Bleipriester (Apr 15, 2016)

Here it is:


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## Tom Horn (May 10, 2016)

Still humming along......Dell XPsp3 and me.


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## Bleipriester (May 11, 2016)

They will force you to upgrade


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## Tom Horn (May 11, 2016)

Bleipriester said:


> They will force you to upgrade



Not as long as Mozilla and Norton support me "they" won't.


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