# Escalating gun crime in New Zealand...but, they just banned guns....right?  Didn't criminals get the message?



## 2aguy

So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....

But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....

_*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.*_

_*More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.

Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms. _

_He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs

These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._









						The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
					






					thedailyblog.co.nz


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## progressive hunter

2aguy said:


> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> 
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> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
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> thedailyblog.co.nz


of course criminals got the message and why crime is going up,,


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## 2aguy

More.....but....they confiscated guns....right?

*New figures obtained by RNZ show last year had the highest rates of gun crime and deaths involving firearms for nearly 10 years.
----
And in both of the last two years, the rate of deadly incidents involving a firearm was the highest it had been since 2009.*

*The number of guns seized by police is also on the rise, up almost 50 percent on five years earlier at 1263 last year
----
The data is also broken down by region, and shows Counties Manukau is now the deadliest for gun violence in the nation, surpassing Eastern, Central and Northland for rates of gun-related deaths.*









						Rates of gun crimes and killings using guns at highest levels in a decade
					

New figures obtained by RNZ show last year had the highest rates of gun crime and deaths involving firearms for nearly 10 years.




					www.rnz.co.nz


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## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz


They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.








						New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
					

Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats



					www.nationmaster.com


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## progressive hunter

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
Click to expand...

or you could just move there,,


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## BULLDOG

progressive hunter said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or you could just move there,,
Click to expand...


Nope. I'm happy where I am. You're the one whining about how bad you think it is here.


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## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
Click to expand...



And again, that has nothing to do with normal Citizens who own and carry guns for self defense.  Criminals commit gun crimes and murder....normal citizens do not.   Normal citizens who own guns do not use those guns for crime and murder, so gun control that takes guns away from them does nothing to lower the gun crime and gun murder rate.

That you don't understand this simple but true fact, shows you really don't understand anything about guns, gun owners, criminals, and human nature.


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## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
Click to expand...



And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.


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## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And again, that has nothing to do with normal Citizens who own and carry guns for self defense.  Criminals commit gun crimes and murder....normal citizens do not.   Normal citizens who own guns do not use those guns for crime and murder, so gun control that takes guns away from them does nothing to lower the gun crime and gun murder rate.
> 
> That you don't understand this simple but true fact, shows you really don't understand anything about guns, gun owners, criminals, and human nature.
Click to expand...


And all drug users don't rob liquor stores and murder people for money to buy drugs.

And again, that has nothing to do with normal Citizens who use drugs for recreation.  Criminals commit  crimes and murder....normal citizens do not.   Normal citizens who use drugs do not use those drugs as an excuse for crime and murder, so drug control that takes drugs away from them does nothing to lower the drug crime and drug murder rate.

That you don't understand this simple but true fact, shows you really don't understand anything about drugs, drug users, criminals, and human nature.


And all drunk drivers  don't pass out in traffic and run over a bus load of nuns or drive through a playground at high speed. 

And again, that has nothing to do with normal Citizens who use alcohol for recreation.  Criminals commit  crimes and murder....normal citizens do not.   Normal citizens who drink  and drive do not use drinking and driving as an excuse for crime and murder, so laws that take alcohol  away from drivers does nothing to lower the drunk driving crime and drunk driving murder rate.

That you don't understand this simple but true fact, shows you really don't understand anything about drunk driving, drunk drivers, criminals, and human nature.

See how easily that silly argument can be used?


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## progressive hunter

BULLDOG said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or you could just move there,,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm happy where I am. You're the one whining about how bad you think it is here.
Click to expand...

when did I whine,,

its you whining we should do what they are doing,,

I just think you stand a better chance at that by moving now,,, cause we aint gonna do what they are doing,, EVER,,


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## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
Click to expand...


Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.


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## progressive hunter

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
Click to expand...

or you could move there and say look what we are doing,,,


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## BULLDOG

progressive hunter said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or you could just move there,,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm happy where I am. You're the one whining about how bad you think it is here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> when did I whine,,
> 
> its you whining we should do what they are doing,,
> 
> I just think you stand a better chance at that by moving now,,, cause we aint gonna do what they are doing,, EVER,,
Click to expand...


We'll see.


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## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And again, that has nothing to do with normal Citizens who own and carry guns for self defense.  Criminals commit gun crimes and murder....normal citizens do not.   Normal citizens who own guns do not use those guns for crime and murder, so gun control that takes guns away from them does nothing to lower the gun crime and gun murder rate.
> 
> That you don't understand this simple but true fact, shows you really don't understand anything about guns, gun owners, criminals, and human nature.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And all drug users don't rob liquor stores and murder people for money to buy drugs.
> 
> And again, that has nothing to do with normal Citizens who use drugs for recreation.  Criminals commit  crimes and murder....normal citizens do not.   Normal citizens who use drugs do not use those drugs as an excuse for crime and murder, so drug control that takes drugs away from them does nothing to lower the drug crime and drug murder rate.
> 
> That you don't understand this simple but true fact, shows you really don't understand anything about drugs, drug users, criminals, and human nature.
> 
> 
> And all drunk drivers  don't pass out in traffic and run over a bus load of nuns or drive through a playground at high speed.
> 
> And again, that has nothing to do with normal Citizens who use alcohol for recreation.  Criminals commit  crimes and murder....normal citizens do not.   Normal citizens who drink  and drive do not use drinking and driving as an excuse for crime and murder, so laws that take alcohol  away from drivers does nothing to lower the drunk driving crime and drunk driving murder rate.
> 
> That you don't understand this simple but true fact, shows you really don't understand anything about drunk driving, drunk drivers, criminals, and human nature.
> 
> See how easily that silly argument can be used?
Click to expand...



Nice dodge, but you didn't do anything to help your cause.

You morons want to take guns away from law abiding gun owners and say this will lower the gun crime rate....I have shown you over and over again that this is wrong and stupid, not supported by facts and data.....yet you still cling to it showing this isn't about reality....this is about irrational thought processes from a left wing extremist.


----------



## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
Click to expand...


Their gun death rate has nothing to do with normal citizens owning and carrying guns....as the U.S. experience shows...our gun crime rates went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, and even our violent crime rate went down 72% as more, not fewer, Americans own and carry guns.

Now today, with this New Zealand Article....they banned guns.....gun crime is increasing.......normal Kiwis turned in their guns, and yet their gun crime rate is going up, not down.

Why?

Australia is dumping gun criminals into Kiwi Land.......

It isn't the guns, it is the criminals....if you weren't an irrational fool you would understand that.


----------



## progressive hunter

BULLDOG said:


> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> progressive hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> or you could just move there,,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. I'm happy where I am. You're the one whining about how bad you think it is here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> when did I whine,,
> 
> its you whining we should do what they are doing,,
> 
> I just think you stand a better chance at that by moving now,,, cause we aint gonna do what they are doing,, EVER,,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We'll see.
Click to expand...

we're waiting,,


----------



## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate has nothing to do with normal citizens owning and carrying guns....as the U.S. experience shows...our gun crime rates went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, and even our violent crime rate went down 72% as more, not fewer, Americans own and carry guns.
> 
> Now today, with this New Zealand Article....they banned guns.....gun crime is increasing.......normal Kiwis turned in their guns, and yet their gun crime rate is going up, not down.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Australia is dumping gun criminals into Kiwi Land.......
> 
> It isn't the guns, it is the criminals....if you weren't an irrational fool you would understand that.
Click to expand...


If their crime rates, specifically their gun crime rates,  mean nothing, then why do you keep posting about it? dumb ass


----------



## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate has nothing to do with normal citizens owning and carrying guns....as the U.S. experience shows...our gun crime rates went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, and even our violent crime rate went down 72% as more, not fewer, Americans own and carry guns.
> 
> Now today, with this New Zealand Article....they banned guns.....gun crime is increasing.......normal Kiwis turned in their guns, and yet their gun crime rate is going up, not down.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Australia is dumping gun criminals into Kiwi Land.......
> 
> It isn't the guns, it is the criminals....if you weren't an irrational fool you would understand that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If their crime rates, specifically their gun crime rates,  mean nothing, then why do you keep posting about it? dumb ass
Click to expand...



Moron.....I know you don't want to discuss this honestly, since all you care about is hating gun owners.   

I post about the stupidity of taking guns away from law abiding people who own guns and do not use them for gun crime or murder.

You don't care about law abiding people protecting themselves from criminals, you hate the fact that they own guns and could care less about criminals attacking them.


----------



## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate has nothing to do with normal citizens owning and carrying guns....as the U.S. experience shows...our gun crime rates went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, and even our violent crime rate went down 72% as more, not fewer, Americans own and carry guns.
> 
> Now today, with this New Zealand Article....they banned guns.....gun crime is increasing.......normal Kiwis turned in their guns, and yet their gun crime rate is going up, not down.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Australia is dumping gun criminals into Kiwi Land.......
> 
> It isn't the guns, it is the criminals....if you weren't an irrational fool you would understand that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If their crime rates, specifically their gun crime rates,  mean nothing, then why do you keep posting about it? dumb ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.....I know you don't want to discuss this honestly, since all you care about is hating gun owners.
> 
> I post about the stupidity of taking guns away from law abiding people who own guns and do not use them for gun crime or murder.
> 
> You don't care about law abiding people protecting themselves from criminals, you hate the fact that they own guns and could care less about criminals attacking them.
Click to expand...


You're getting dumber by the day. I've had guns since I was given my first .410 for Christmas in 62.  Wanting common sense gun control is not the same as coming for your guns, dumb ass.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

2aguy said:


> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz


This fails as an _ad hoc_ fallacy.


----------



## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate has nothing to do with normal citizens owning and carrying guns....as the U.S. experience shows...our gun crime rates went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, and even our violent crime rate went down 72% as more, not fewer, Americans own and carry guns.
> 
> Now today, with this New Zealand Article....they banned guns.....gun crime is increasing.......normal Kiwis turned in their guns, and yet their gun crime rate is going up, not down.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Australia is dumping gun criminals into Kiwi Land.......
> 
> It isn't the guns, it is the criminals....if you weren't an irrational fool you would understand that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If their crime rates, specifically their gun crime rates,  mean nothing, then why do you keep posting about it? dumb ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.....I know you don't want to discuss this honestly, since all you care about is hating gun owners.
> 
> I post about the stupidity of taking guns away from law abiding people who own guns and do not use them for gun crime or murder.
> 
> You don't care about law abiding people protecting themselves from criminals, you hate the fact that they own guns and could care less about criminals attacking them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're getting dumber by the day. I've had guns since I was given my first .410 for Christmas in 62.  Wanting common sense gun control is not the same as coming for your guns, dumb ass.
Click to expand...



Yes....it is.   There isn't "common sense" gun control that you can name that doesdo what you claim you want it to do.

For the last 27 years, more and more Americans now own and over 19.4 million Americans now carry guns for self defense in public.   Over that 27 years, gun crime went down 75%.............gun murder down 49%........and accidental gun deaths have also gone down........so your call for "Common Sense" gun control laws is not supported by the actual, real world experience with more guns in more hands.

Nothing you say you want is based in rational thought.   Americans are extremely responsible with the 600 million guns that they own and the over 19.4 million that they actually carry out in public.

Your call for "common sense" gun control is nothing more than incremental gun confiscation....making it harder, little by little, for normal Americans to be able to own and carry guns, with no effect on actual criminals.


----------



## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate has nothing to do with normal citizens owning and carrying guns....as the U.S. experience shows...our gun crime rates went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, and even our violent crime rate went down 72% as more, not fewer, Americans own and carry guns.
> 
> Now today, with this New Zealand Article....they banned guns.....gun crime is increasing.......normal Kiwis turned in their guns, and yet their gun crime rate is going up, not down.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Australia is dumping gun criminals into Kiwi Land.......
> 
> It isn't the guns, it is the criminals....if you weren't an irrational fool you would understand that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If their crime rates, specifically their gun crime rates,  mean nothing, then why do you keep posting about it? dumb ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.....I know you don't want to discuss this honestly, since all you care about is hating gun owners.
> 
> I post about the stupidity of taking guns away from law abiding people who own guns and do not use them for gun crime or murder.
> 
> You don't care about law abiding people protecting themselves from criminals, you hate the fact that they own guns and could care less about criminals attacking them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're getting dumber by the day. I've had guns since I was given my first .410 for Christmas in 62.  Wanting common sense gun control is not the same as coming for your guns, dumb ass.
Click to expand...



The guns you own......how often do you use them to commit crimes and murder people?


----------



## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate has nothing to do with normal citizens owning and carrying guns....as the U.S. experience shows...our gun crime rates went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, and even our violent crime rate went down 72% as more, not fewer, Americans own and carry guns.
> 
> Now today, with this New Zealand Article....they banned guns.....gun crime is increasing.......normal Kiwis turned in their guns, and yet their gun crime rate is going up, not down.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Australia is dumping gun criminals into Kiwi Land.......
> 
> It isn't the guns, it is the criminals....if you weren't an irrational fool you would understand that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If their crime rates, specifically their gun crime rates,  mean nothing, then why do you keep posting about it? dumb ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.....I know you don't want to discuss this honestly, since all you care about is hating gun owners.
> 
> I post about the stupidity of taking guns away from law abiding people who own guns and do not use them for gun crime or murder.
> 
> You don't care about law abiding people protecting themselves from criminals, you hate the fact that they own guns and could care less about criminals attacking them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're getting dumber by the day. I've had guns since I was given my first .410 for Christmas in 62.  Wanting common sense gun control is not the same as coming for your guns, dumb ass.
Click to expand...



From the CDC Wisqars website....

Accidental Gun deaths...

1999.....824

2000.....776

2001.....802

2002.....762

2003.....730

2004.....649

2005.....789

2006.....642

2007.....613

2008.....592

2009.....554

2010.....606

2011.....591

2012.....548

2013.....505

2014.....461

2015.....489

2016.....495

2017.....486

2018.....458

Non-fatal gun injuries.....

2001.....17,696

2018.....18,921

This, as more Americans own and carry guns......over 19.4 million American now carry guns for self defense....and the accidental gun death rate is cut almost in half.........

1990s......200 million guns in private hands

2018....over 600 million guns in private hands....





__





						WISQARS (Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System)|Injury Center|CDC
					

WISQARS (Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System) is an interactive database system that provides customized reports of injury-related data.




					www.cdc.gov
				




You don't know what you are talking about..........


----------



## Polishprince

2aguy said:


> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz




If I were a criminal who made my bread and butter from stick-ups,  I'd be on the next boat to New Zealand.

An entire nation of sitting ducks, if a law abider were to pull a weapon on you, just rat them out to the police.


----------



## Flash

We all know Liberals are dumber than a door knob and their stupid idea of banning firearms from law abiding citizens is a great example of that stupidity.


----------



## cnm

Jesus. More US gun nut bloviating. Oh, it's 2aguy, should have known. No, guns aren't banned, we still have firearms. He's been told this many times before, but he's a bit slow. Oh well. It may get through to him in a decade or two.


----------



## justinacolmena

*National Security Agency --- National Reconnaissance Office*








						The Five Eyes - The Intelligence Alliance of the Anglosphere
					

The Five Eyes is the world's most complete and comprehensive intelligence alliance.




					ukdefencejournal.org.uk
				



*GCSB: UKUSA allies: New Zealand is a member of the UKUSA Agreement, a multilateral agreement for SIGINT cooperation. This international alliance is also referred to as the ‘Five-Eyes’.*
*





						Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
					

resources on the FISA Court and implementation of the Act



					fas.org
				



*


----------



## BULLDOG

cnm said:


> Jesus. More US gun nut bloviating. Oh, it's 2aguy, should have known. No, guns aren't banned, we still have firearms. He's been told this many times before, but he's a bit slow. Oh well. It may get through to him in a decade or two.



Don't count on it. He's just nuts, and there is no sign of him getting better.


----------



## idb

2aguy said:


> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz


No, they haven't banned guns.
Does that answer your question?


----------



## 2aguy

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
Click to expand...



Yes...they have...









						New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
					

The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.




					www.nytimes.com


----------



## idb

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...

No...they really haven't...
Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.





__





						Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## 2aguy

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...



Again...

*It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*

*These guns are banned.......*


----------



## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...


Comparing our crime rate to New Zealand's clearly shows they are doing something right. We should do what they are doing.


----------



## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
Click to expand...


And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?


----------



## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate has nothing to do with normal citizens owning and carrying guns....as the U.S. experience shows...our gun crime rates went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, and even our violent crime rate went down 72% as more, not fewer, Americans own and carry guns.
> 
> Now today, with this New Zealand Article....they banned guns.....gun crime is increasing.......normal Kiwis turned in their guns, and yet their gun crime rate is going up, not down.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Australia is dumping gun criminals into Kiwi Land.......
> 
> It isn't the guns, it is the criminals....if you weren't an irrational fool you would understand that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If their crime rates, specifically their gun crime rates,  mean nothing, then why do you keep posting about it? dumb ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.....I know you don't want to discuss this honestly, since all you care about is hating gun owners.
> 
> I post about the stupidity of taking guns away from law abiding people who own guns and do not use them for gun crime or murder.
> 
> You don't care about law abiding people protecting themselves from criminals, you hate the fact that they own guns and could care less about criminals attacking them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're getting dumber by the day. I've had guns since I was given my first .410 for Christmas in 62.  Wanting common sense gun control is not the same as coming for your guns, dumb ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The guns you own......how often do you use them to commit crimes and murder people?
Click to expand...


I have never gotten drunk and killed anybody with my car.  Does that mean I should be allowed to drive drunk?


----------



## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comparing our crime rate to New Zealand's clearly shows they are doing something right. We should do what they are doing.
> View attachment 434425
Click to expand...



Yes....they have criminals who don't want to commit murder....we need to trade our criminals for their criminals.

Normal people owning and carrying guns has no effect on the gun crime and gun murder rate...as 27 years of increased gun ownership and carrying in the U.S. shows.........so it isn't guns that is the issue.....

Our issue is the democrat party releasing violent gun offenders, felons with illegal guns and even using them to shoot people....releasing them over and over again...that is where 95% of our gun crime comes from...

So.....

1)  Trade our criminals for their criminals.

2) Stop the democrat party from releasing violent gun offenders.

There.....that is what they are doing right......their criminals don't commit murder and they don't have the democrat party releasing violent gun offenders over and over again.


----------



## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?
Click to expand...



The rifles they banned in Australia are not military weapons......they are semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns......

But they are banned...he said they weren't banned......


----------



## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 2aguy said:
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> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate has nothing to do with normal citizens owning and carrying guns....as the U.S. experience shows...our gun crime rates went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, and even our violent crime rate went down 72% as more, not fewer, Americans own and carry guns.
> 
> Now today, with this New Zealand Article....they banned guns.....gun crime is increasing.......normal Kiwis turned in their guns, and yet their gun crime rate is going up, not down.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Australia is dumping gun criminals into Kiwi Land.......
> 
> It isn't the guns, it is the criminals....if you weren't an irrational fool you would understand that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If their crime rates, specifically their gun crime rates,  mean nothing, then why do you keep posting about it? dumb ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.....I know you don't want to discuss this honestly, since all you care about is hating gun owners.
> 
> I post about the stupidity of taking guns away from law abiding people who own guns and do not use them for gun crime or murder.
> 
> You don't care about law abiding people protecting themselves from criminals, you hate the fact that they own guns and could care less about criminals attacking them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're getting dumber by the day. I've had guns since I was given my first .410 for Christmas in 62.  Wanting common sense gun control is not the same as coming for your guns, dumb ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The guns you own......how often do you use them to commit crimes and murder people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have never gotten drunk and killed anybody with my car.  Does that mean I should be allowed to drive drunk?
Click to expand...



What does that have to do with anything.....

I own guns...and as long as I don't use them for crimes, my owning them isn't a problem.

Are you drunk now?


----------



## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Comparing our crime rate to New Zealand's clearly shows they are doing something right. We should do what they are doing.
> View attachment 434425
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes....they have criminals who don't want to commit murder....we need to trade our criminals for their criminals.
> 
> Normal people owning and carrying guns has no effect on the gun crime and gun murder rate...as 27 years of increased gun ownership and carrying in the U.S. shows.........so it isn't guns that is the issue.....
> 
> Our issue is the democrat party releasing violent gun offenders, felons with illegal guns and even using them to shoot people....releasing them over and over again...that is where 95% of our gun crime comes from...
> 
> So.....
> 
> 1)  Trade our criminals for their criminals.
> 
> 2) Stop the democrat party from releasing violent gun offenders.
> 
> There.....that is what they are doing right......their criminals don't commit murder and they don't have the democrat party releasing violent gun offenders over and over again.
Click to expand...


You're saying the difference is that their criminals just don't WANT to murder people. You know that's batshit crazy, don't you?


----------



## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't kill nearly as many as us. We should do what they are doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> Rape rate, Crime levels, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate per million people, Murder rate and 91 More Interesting Facts and Stats
> 
> 
> 
> www.nationmaster.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 432284
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And you ignore the part where it says "increasing gun crime," even after they have banned guns.......showing that banning guns does nothing to stop criminals.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate is much lower than ours. We should be doing what they are doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Their gun death rate has nothing to do with normal citizens owning and carrying guns....as the U.S. experience shows...our gun crime rates went down 75%, our gun murder rate went down 49%, and even our violent crime rate went down 72% as more, not fewer, Americans own and carry guns.
> 
> Now today, with this New Zealand Article....they banned guns.....gun crime is increasing.......normal Kiwis turned in their guns, and yet their gun crime rate is going up, not down.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Australia is dumping gun criminals into Kiwi Land.......
> 
> It isn't the guns, it is the criminals....if you weren't an irrational fool you would understand that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If their crime rates, specifically their gun crime rates,  mean nothing, then why do you keep posting about it? dumb ass
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.....I know you don't want to discuss this honestly, since all you care about is hating gun owners.
> 
> I post about the stupidity of taking guns away from law abiding people who own guns and do not use them for gun crime or murder.
> 
> You don't care about law abiding people protecting themselves from criminals, you hate the fact that they own guns and could care less about criminals attacking them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're getting dumber by the day. I've had guns since I was given my first .410 for Christmas in 62.  Wanting common sense gun control is not the same as coming for your guns, dumb ass.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The guns you own......how often do you use them to commit crimes and murder people?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have never gotten drunk and killed anybody with my car.  Does that mean I should be allowed to drive drunk?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with anything.....
> 
> I own guns...and as long as I don't use them for crimes, my owning them isn't a problem.
> 
> Are you drunk now?
Click to expand...


And I like to drink as much as I like to drive. Using your logic, as long as I don't run over anyone while I'm drunk,  My drunk driving isn't a problem, right?


----------



## idb

2aguy said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The rifles they banned in Australia are not military weapons......they are semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns......
> 
> But they are banned...he said they weren't banned......
Click to expand...

You said guns are banned...they're not banned.
300,000 firearms owners in a population of 4.5M is a sizeable proportion of the citizens owning supposedly banned items.


----------



## 2aguy

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The rifles they banned in Australia are not military weapons......they are semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns......
> 
> But they are banned...he said they weren't banned......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said guns are banned...they're not banned.
> 300,000 firearms owners in a population of 4.5M is a sizeable proportion of the citizens owning supposedly banned items.
Click to expand...



Those guns are banned.....regular guns.  Banned, and now confiscated.


----------



## idb

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The rifles they banned in Australia are not military weapons......they are semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns......
> 
> But they are banned...he said they weren't banned......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said guns are banned...they're not banned.
> 300,000 firearms owners in a population of 4.5M is a sizeable proportion of the citizens owning supposedly banned items.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Those guns are banned.....regular guns.  Banned, and now confiscated.
Click to expand...

You said "...but, they just banned guns....right?".
It's in your thread title.
They haven't banned guns.


----------



## 2aguy

idb said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> idb said:
> 
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> 2aguy said:
> 
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> BULLDOG said:
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> 2aguy said:
> 
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> idb said:
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> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
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> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The rifles they banned in Australia are not military weapons......they are semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns......
> 
> But they are banned...he said they weren't banned......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said guns are banned...they're not banned.
> 300,000 firearms owners in a population of 4.5M is a sizeable proportion of the citizens owning supposedly banned items.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Those guns are banned.....regular guns.  Banned, and now confiscated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said "...but, they just banned guns....right?".
> It's in your thread title.
> They haven't banned guns.
Click to expand...



Yes...they did.........


----------



## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The rifles they banned in Australia are not military weapons......they are semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns......
> 
> But they are banned...he said they weren't banned......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said guns are banned...they're not banned.
> 300,000 firearms owners in a population of 4.5M is a sizeable proportion of the citizens owning supposedly banned items.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Those guns are banned.....regular guns.  Banned, and now confiscated.
Click to expand...


Do you ever just shut up and think about the goofy shit you constantly post? You should.


----------



## idb

2aguy said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The rifles they banned in Australia are not military weapons......they are semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns......
> 
> But they are banned...he said they weren't banned......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said guns are banned...they're not banned.
> 300,000 firearms owners in a population of 4.5M is a sizeable proportion of the citizens owning supposedly banned items.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Those guns are banned.....regular guns.  Banned, and now confiscated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said "...but, they just banned guns....right?".
> It's in your thread title.
> They haven't banned guns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they did.........
Click to expand...

Do some research.


----------



## 2aguy

BULLDOG said:


> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The rifles they banned in Australia are not military weapons......they are semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns......
> 
> But they are banned...he said they weren't banned......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said guns are banned...they're not banned.
> 300,000 firearms owners in a population of 4.5M is a sizeable proportion of the citizens owning supposedly banned items.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Those guns are banned.....regular guns.  Banned, and now confiscated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you ever just shut up and think about the goofy shit you constantly post? You should.
Click to expand...



That all you have?   I post truth, facts and reality.....you post....that.   

Not impressed.


----------



## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The rifles they banned in Australia are not military weapons......they are semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns......
> 
> But they are banned...he said they weren't banned......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said guns are banned...they're not banned.
> 300,000 firearms owners in a population of 4.5M is a sizeable proportion of the citizens owning supposedly banned items.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Those guns are banned.....regular guns.  Banned, and now confiscated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you ever just shut up and think about the goofy shit you constantly post? You should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That all you have?   I post truth, facts and reality.....you post....that.
> 
> Not impressed.
Click to expand...


You post the same crap every day. If it was stupid when you posted it a year ago, it's still stupid


----------



## idb

2aguy said:


> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BULLDOG said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2aguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, they haven't banned guns.
> Does that answer your question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes...they have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand Ban on Most Semiautomatic Weapons Takes Effect (Published 2019)
> 
> 
> The law, passed after the Christchurch massacre in March, outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles. It will be enforced as a gun buyback and amnesty program ends amid debate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nytimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No...they really haven't...
> Nearly 300,000[1] licensed firearm owners own and use New Zealand's estimated 1.5 million[1] firearms.[2] Gun licences are issued at the discretion of the police provided they consider the person to be of good standing[3][4] and without criminal, psychiatric or drug issues; as well as meeting other conditions such as having suitable storage facilities. Several different categories of licence are permitted, with the most common, "A Category", permitting access to sporting configuration rifles and shotguns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gun law in New Zealand - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Again...
> 
> *It outlaws military-style semiautomatic weapons and assault rifles, and some gun parts, and violators face five years in prison.*
> 
> *These guns are banned.......*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And fully automatic weapons are effectively banned here. What is your point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The rifles they banned in Australia are not military weapons......they are semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns......
> 
> But they are banned...he said they weren't banned......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said guns are banned...they're not banned.
> 300,000 firearms owners in a population of 4.5M is a sizeable proportion of the citizens owning supposedly banned items.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Those guns are banned.....regular guns.  Banned, and now confiscated.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you ever just shut up and think about the goofy shit you constantly post? You should.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That all you have?   I post truth, facts and reality.....you post....that.
> 
> Not impressed.
Click to expand...

You haven't posted facts in this case.
Try again.


----------



## 2aguy

2aguy said:


> So...Australia is dumping violent criminals into New Zealand......and those criminals are using guns to commit crimes.....
> 
> But....I thought it was guns that caused crime...not criminals....
> 
> _*Worsening gun violence linked to gang turf wars, illicit drugs and the insidious cancer of organised crime has left more than 350 people with firearms injuries across Auckland in five years.
> 
> More than half of the wounded were treated at Middlemore Hospital as violence in South Auckland spilled over into bloodshed, leaving numerous people dead and scores of others fighting for their lives*.
> 
> Auckland Mayor Phil Goff has serious concerns about the growing use of firearms.
> 
> He has written to the Police Minister and will meet Deputy Police Commissioner John Tims next week to discuss how to tackle the spate of shootings and toxic impact of gangs
> 
> These 501s have swamped the domestic crime scene with a level of violence that is far in excess of what the domestic NZ gangs use and with their South American Cartel links, the 501s are importing a purer and cheaper meth that is causing enormous damage in our communities._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The as predicted Australian crime wave & its ramifications on NZ | The Daily Blog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thedailyblog.co.nz




But.....but........I thought if you banned and confiscated guns....especially those "Assault" Rifles that aren't "assault" rifles.....peace would reign..........right?

Why is gun crime going up in New Zealand?

*This should only be surprising to those idealistic and gullible supporters of gun confiscation who really believe that criminals are going to abide by gun control laws even though they don’t seem to care much about any other laws on the books. *

*A new report by Radio New Zealand shows that even after the government’s ban and compensated confiscation of tens of thousands of semi-automatic firearms, “gun crime hit a new peak” in the country last year.** 
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*Police had told her that “guns were increasingly present”, Ardern said.** 

“We have removed a particular form of weapon from circulation. But that does not mean of course that there are not still weapons in use by gangs, or that they are not available. … These are things that are going to take some time to turn around.”*









						Report: New Zealand Gun Confiscations Had No Impact On Violent Crime
					

Now the prime minister wants to double down on her failed strategy.




					bearingarms.com


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## 2aguy

Their gun confiscation has had no impact on gun crime.....you know, since criminals ignore laws....

*But Radio New Zealand reported on Monday that the reform “has had no impact on a rise in gun crime and violence”, pointing to police statistics that show charges reached a new peak in 2020. Nearly 2,400 people were charged with 4,542 firearms-related offences, nearly double that of a decade earlier, while 1,862 firearms were seized under the Search and Surveillance Act, compared with 860 10 years ago.*
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*“We do have an increasing issue with gun use, particularly amongst our organised criminals so, for me, that is more rationale for the kinds of legislation we already put in place.”*

*Police had told her that “guns were increasingly present”, Ardern said.*








						New Zealand: Ardern flags further gun control reforms after firearms charges peak
					

Prime minister says 2020 police statistics have only reinforced government’s commitment to crackdown




					www.theguardian.com


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## BULLDOG

2aguy said:


> Their gun confiscation has had no impact on gun crime.....you know, since criminals ignore laws....
> 
> *But Radio New Zealand reported on Monday that the reform “has had no impact on a rise in gun crime and violence”, pointing to police statistics that show charges reached a new peak in 2020. Nearly 2,400 people were charged with 4,542 firearms-related offences, nearly double that of a decade earlier, while 1,862 firearms were seized under the Search and Surveillance Act, compared with 860 10 years ago.*
> -----------
> *“We do have an increasing issue with gun use, particularly amongst our organised criminals so, for me, that is more rationale for the kinds of legislation we already put in place.”
> 
> Police had told her that “guns were increasingly present”, Ardern said.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Zealand: Ardern flags further gun control reforms after firearms charges peak
> 
> 
> Prime minister says 2020 police statistics have only reinforced government’s commitment to crackdown
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.theguardian.com



You should hook up with that goober in another thread who keeps whining about filling buckets with air to make a perpetual motion machine.  Your logic is the same, and you would probably become BFFs


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## bambu.

Australia is deporting NZ citizens who some people call "slow learners" back to their homeland.
"Slow learners" with serious criminal records.
Said people are not being deported because they have a lot of parking tickets.
*
Gun crime and violent gangs on the increase in NZ?
No surprise...sleepy hollow was always going to have to face the challenge one day...that day is now.
The Australian man responsible for the "mosque massacres" did not bring the weapons from Australia, he simply bought them legally at gun shops in NZ.
NZ did not ban the sale and possession of such weapons at the same time Australia did.
It should have.
*
What should NZ do now?...in these times of "peace, love and harmony...everyone in the world is a lovely person".
Get serious, very serious about the matter.
Ban all guns except bolt-action rifles. Said bolt-action rifles only available to registered farmers and registered hunters...who are sane.
Break the gun laws...very serious penalties for the offenders.
Have a gun amnesty.
Then, when it expires...
early am one day, the NZ army surrounds the trouble spots, no one in or out. Every house and person searched for illegal weapons.
Army soldiers dressed for combat.
Cop SWAT teams.
The trouble areas cleaned out.
All sinners arrested and locked up.


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