# Problems with illegal immigration.



## LilOlLady (Jul 2, 2012)

* PROBLEMS WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.*
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Anchor Babies: Birthright Citizenship Exploited
Anti-American Attitudes
Anti-Semitic Attitudes
Attacks on Border Patrol and Law Enforcement agents
Attacks on Free Speech in America
Animal Abuse Increases
Census Numbers: Negative Impact on Congressional Representation
Civil rights: Devalued by comparison to illegal actions
Child Endangerment
Child Molestation
Closed and Overcrowded Hospitals and Emergency Rooms
Cost of Translators
Consulates issuing Matricular Cards (ID Mexico won't even accept)
Day Laborers loitering and creating public hazards
Depreciated Wages for Americans and Legal Immigrants
Deterioration of Common American Culture
Desecration of the American Flag: Foreign Flags used aggressively
Disrespect for American Laws
Document Fraud
Drunk driving injuries and deaths: Hit and Runs
Ethnic Cleansing and Race Riots
Farm animals with in city limits
Food Poisoning
Foreign Influence on US Politics
Gangs, Graffiti, Drugs, Cartels, Smugglers, and Violence
Gang Rape and unreported rapes
High Birth Rates and Overpopulation
Human Sex Slavery
Identity Theft
Increased Crime
Increased Taxes for Americans
Increased pressures on infrastructure (roads, traffic, water, sewer)
Infectious Diseases
Lost American Jobs
Lost American Sovereignty
Lost Self Governance of American citizens Vs. Globalism and Elitism
Male Chauvinism: Gender inequality
Not Speaking English, loss of common language, Press 1 for English
Overcrowded Schools and Negative Impact on American Education
Overcrowded single family homes
Overcrowded Jails and Prisons
Public Sanitation Loss: Trash and human waste in towns
Racist Groups and Race Based Politics
Remittances: Billions of dollars sent out of the US Economy
Rule of Law: Fundamental principles of America sacrificed.
Separatist Movements: Demands for autonomy
Smear Campaigns and Lies: Dirty Politics
Stolen American Taxpayer Resources: Tuition, Welfare, Licenses
Taking limited seats in colleges at taxpayer expense
Tax payer funds going to special interest groups (example) "LaRaza"
Terrorism Threats and Loss of national security
Trash and Negative Impact on Environment at border
Unfair to Legal Immigrants
Unfair Business Competition for law abiding companies
Unlicensed and Uninsured Motorists
Untaxed Wages
Voter Fraud
Problems With Illegal Immigration


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## waltky (Jul 11, 2012)

Arizona immigration law looks attractive to other states...

*Majority backs Arizona on immigration crackdown law*
_Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - Poll: Voters want similar immigration laws for their states_


> In the wake of the Supreme Court decision to uphold Arizonas law allowing police to check the immigration status of those they detain, an overwhelming majority of Americans say they want to see their own states enact the same kinds of laws.  The latest Washington Times/JZ Analytics survey, released Monday night, found about two-thirds of all likely voters would like to see their own police be able to check immigration status during routine traffic stops. Support was high across most demographics, including self-identified Republicans and independents, and even Hispanics favored the policy by a 55 percent to 41 percent margin.
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> The Supreme Court last month struck down most of Arizonas 2010 law that tried to create state penalties for illegal immigration, but said states and localities can empower their police to check the immigration status of those they detain during their routine duties.  Justices agreed the checks were legal in theory, though they said that could change if police use them in a way, such as detaining someone for too long, that violates other rights.
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See also:

*Obama administration may sue sanctuary cities to force cooperation with federal deportation efforts*
_Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - ICE chief asks AG Holder to take legal action against Cook County_


> After eviscerating most of Arizonas strict immigration law in court last month, the Obama administration is now considering going after the other side by suing sanctuary cities to force them to cooperate with federal deportation efforts, an agency chief told Congress on Monday.  John Morton, director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said hes asked Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. to take legal action against Cook County, President Obamas home county in Illinois, to force it to turn over illegal immigrants for removal. He said hes now awaiting a final answer from the Justice Department.  They wanted to see how certain pieces of court decisions came out. I expect to hear from them shortly, and I can tell you that resolving the issue in Cook County is very important for me, Mr. Morton testified to the House Homeland Security subcommittee on the border.
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> Cook County officials decided several years ago they did not want to cooperate with federal authorities immigration efforts and stopped providing them information that could help with deportations of those booked into county jails.  Last year, the county enacted an ordinance officially halting compliance except in the most major of cases, and then only after they reached a financial agreement with the federal government to cover the costs.  Mr. Morton said thats effectively dried up all cooperation.  Right now, its not a question of Cook County releasing some individuals to us, he said. They are releasing no individuals to us, including very violent offenders, and I just dont think thats good policy.
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## zonly1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Illegals have and always will impose there language and culture...and being an american is such a high priority but those free welfare benefits are.  Where's the motivation to be an American to assimulate as an American????????????????????


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## Noomi (Jul 12, 2012)

LilOlLady said:


> * PROBLEMS WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.*
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> Anchor Babies: Birthright Citizenship Exploited
> Anti-American Attitudes
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I am sure illegal immigrants are responsible for all of this. Give me a break. Drop the racist attitude.
Its okay to be opposed to illegal immigrants, but don't try and blame them for everything that goes wrong in the country. There are so many things wrong about your OP I don't know where to start.


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## Artevelde (Jul 12, 2012)

The main issue about illegal immigration is that it is, well ... illegal and thus a crime. Illegal immigrants violate the law and should be treated accordingly. Period.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 12, 2012)

Artevelde said:


> The main issue about illegal immigration is that it is, well ... illegal and thus a crime. Illegal immigrants violate the law and should be treated accordingly. Period.



I won't try to act as if illegals haven't broken an established law. But I will argue that the law is corrupt and unjust. For a poor Mexican citizen with no resources, legal immigration is far too difficult to figure out. The US favors educated immigrants from Europe, Canada, and Asia when allowing immigration. What happened to the American Dream? What about the idea that American Rights are given by God and not by any government?

When it all boils down to it, unless you served in the military (or have a loved one who is doing so) or personally went through the legal immigration process, you have done nothing to be more deserving of citizenship than any Mexican.


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## Intense (Jul 12, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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That is, with the exception of being born here. There is also the factor of what one has to offer. To take that out of the equation is irresponsible.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 12, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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This is a dangerous door you are opening, if we should just let anyone come to this country because they have no resources and come from poor countries we will be flooded with immigrants from every third world nation on the planet.


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## RoadVirus (Jul 12, 2012)

Noomi said:


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LilOlLady isn't blaming them for everything. And what the hell is racist about making a list about how illegal immigrants effect this country?


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## High_Gravity (Jul 12, 2012)

RoadVirus said:


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Nothing, last time I checked illegal immigrant isn't a race.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 12, 2012)

Intense said:


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Well, I don't think you had much say in where you were born. (Notice how I said YOU instead of YOUR parents). And if you factor in what a person has to offer, when deciding who to let in, should we also kick out the citizens who are lacking? Why should a persons money, skill, and intelligence determine whether they are given Unalienable Rights? 

Now, for the record I understand that we can't take care of everyone. But as long as we tax everyone who is here and limit the welfare we give out, the economy will be fine.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 12, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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You mean the same "dangerous door" that worked for a century? That our Forefathers believed in? The only dangerous door we've opened is the door where we take care of everyone. If we let anyone in, and tried to take care of their every need without taxing them, we would fail. If we put our foot down and stopped giving out welfare checks, people would either start working or leave. There are only two reasons people come here. I don't support people coming here to receive welfare and not be taxed. I 100% support letting in a person who has a desire to work.


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## Nova78 (Jul 12, 2012)

Problems with illegal immigration. 

*They are here is the problem*


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## The Infidel (Jul 12, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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How the Hell do you tax someone when you have no idea they are here?

They are undocumented. 

Plus, millions and millions have come here with zero to their name... from countries overseas, and they managed to do it legally.
Why should we give folks who want to sneak in "special rights"?


You are whats wrong with this wonderful nation.... idiots like you!


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 12, 2012)

The Infidel said:


> How the Hell do you tax someone when you have no idea they are here?
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You're a moron who missed out on the first half of the conversation. I was only pointing out why our existing immigration laws are bogus. Millions and Millions? We only let in 1 million per year TOTAL (most of them are Asian and Indian). We already give "special rights" to the wealthy, educated immigrants. I would favor closing borders, opening immigration, and stop having a government program for every sob story and lazy person.

I love how you act like you're the perfect American when you're an ungrateful elitist that doesn't want to share the blessings you're damn lucky to have. 

Do you realize that our Declaration of Independence says that Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness are Unalienable Rights? Yet, you don't want impoverished Mexicans to be able to come here and work for minimum wage. Unbelievable.

If you don't want to pay for their healthcare and education, that's fine. But don't act like we had to work really hard to be born Americans. It was just blind luck on our part and we shouldn't act entitled because of it.


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## zonly1 (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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in the meantime, 49% live of some wealfare assistance.   I more incline to believe it is by design.  California the king maker to the nanny  welfare state is growing lawless state when Stocton and San Bernardino counties file for chapter 9/11 protection...sooon there will be growing lawless ness in those areas b/c of street prescence of police are no longer there.  Police can/or will not monitor gun trafficking in those weak/volnorable areas.....a war zone.    

Gutless spine moon beam should call in NG within a wk.......thank a liberal....they ignorantly voted for it.


By chance on 6/25/12 obumer declared a state of emergency further kicking in NDAA.


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## Noomi (Jul 13, 2012)

RoadVirus said:


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Where is the evidence that illegals contribute to the things mentioned in the list? Where is the evidence that illegal immigration leads to more animal abuse, and human trafficking?


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## Katzndogz (Jul 13, 2012)

Until recently we never had an open door policy.    Immigration was strictly controlled with no immigration courts or appeals to help them.  There was no such thing as welfare.  Imagine if today we had something simlar to Ellis Island where immigrants were held indefinitly until processed, when they were given medical examinations, when they could be deported for whatever reason given with no recourse.     Becoming a naturalized citizen meant taking a loyalty oath and renouncing any other citizenship.

The left wouldn't stand for it.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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So you basically want open borders? anyone can come to the US? we are broke now how are we supposed to take care of all these people?


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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The Declaration of Independence doesn't apply to the whole world you fucking physco.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 13, 2012)

We've always given special rights to the talented, wealthy and highly educated.  In the 50s it was called the brain drain as superlative people came here from all over the world.  They brought talent and money.   I understand that liberals want the uneducated poor to be burdens on the systems rather than the wealthy who will bring money and enterprise.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 13, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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Originally the Declaration of Independence said Life, Liberty and ownership of Property.   It should have stayed that way.    The Declaration of Independence is NOT, repeat NOT a declaration of rights,  it was a Declaration of Intolerable Acts which caused us to declare our independence.  

Too bad we no longer teach American History in school.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> We've always given special rights to the talented, wealthy and highly educated.  In the 50s it was called the brain drain as superlative people came here from all over the world.  They brought talent and money.   I understand that liberals want the uneducated poor to be burdens on the systems rather than the wealthy who will bring money and enterprise.



It makes more sense to accomodate the educated wealthy people first, I would rather take in the Doctor from Iran instead of the Pakistani goat herder with 8 children.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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Well to be honest the declaration of Independence is an American document, it does NOT apply to the rest of the world, you think people in Iran give a fuck about our declarations? god sometimes us yankees can be so arrogant.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 13, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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It was  Declaration of Intolerable Acts committed by the British Crown against the American People.   It could no more belong to the world, then a man's wedding vows to his wife belong the the woman down the street.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


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Somehow we have retards now that think this applies to every country, hell that moron 
52ndStreet created a post about Venezuela banning guns and complained about them losing the right to bear arms.


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## Indofred (Jul 13, 2012)

Illegal immigration is a massive problem in the US.
Droves of illegals entering the country, raping and murdering, then taking over the ruddy country like they own it.










The poor native American Indians never managed to get their land back.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 13, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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No, but when they say "we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness," it most certainly does apply to everyone else. 

And yeah, our government is broke. But if we backed off on providing every little thing to every single poor person, we could open immigration without being flooded with immigrants. It's basic logic. People will only come if there are jobs or welfare to be had. If we cut back on welfare, only people who want to work will come. If we improve our documentation, we can tax those increased incomes.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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Like I said, none of that applies to the whole world pinhead.  You are so arrogant trying to enforce American ideas and values on others.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 13, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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Are you really that thick. This is Thomas Jefferson and the other Founding Fathers telling England that there are certain rights they can't take away. Why can't a government take them away? Because they don't come from a government, they come from God. The Fathers weren't saying "We demand special rights," they were saying "Everyone deserves these rights because they are human rights" not just American Rights.

Now, the Bill of Rights only applies to Americans, but we don't have the right to unjustly kill any foreigner because that's a God-given right they have as a human being.

And this is not me forcing my American ideas on other people. If they don't want these rights, they don't have to claim them. But at least realize that Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, Adams, etc would say that these rights aren't reserved for Americans.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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that only applies to americans retard not the rest of the world!


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## Indofred (Jul 13, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Like I said, none of that applies to the whole world pinhead.  You are so arrogant trying to enforce American ideas and values on others.



You hit the nail on the head with that one.
The US enforces its version of right and wrong on the world, usually at gun point, and gets really pissed off when someone hits back or tells it so sod off.

Attacks in Iraq are 'terrorism' and it's always "insurgents" but no one stops to consider the US and others illegally invaded that country and are the occupying force there.

Course they're going to get attacked.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 13, 2012)

How in the world do you read "ALL men are created equal" and "Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" and say that those rights only apply to Americans? Are Americans the only people God created? Or did he just love us more so we get human rights and others don't? The document may only be relevant to Americans, but it is telling us Americans that everyone has certain rights. This is why we don't invade countries to expand our empire, because they have they right to liberty.

If you really believe that only Americans have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then you should have no moral problems with slavery, war, famine, Kony, or anything outside the US. If you don't have a moral problem with those things, you need help.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> How in the world do you read "ALL men are created equal" and "Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" and say that those rights only apply to Americans? Are Americans the only people God created? Or did he just love us more so we get human rights and others don't? The document may only be relevant to Americans, but it is telling us Americans that everyone has certain rights. This is why we don't invade countries to expand our empire, because they have they right to liberty.
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Like I said retard, all that shit only applies to Americans. Alot of people in this world don't want any of that shit, go over to the Sudan and try preaching that all men are created equal jazz and see how far it gets you.


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## Katzndogz (Jul 13, 2012)

All men are created equal.

Does it say that all men should come here?  No.  They are created equal in Syria, in France, in Greece and it is up to them to seize that God given equality and make it their own.


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## Unkotare (Jul 13, 2012)

Indofred said:


> the US and others illegally invaded that country and are the occupying force there.





That is not the case.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

Katzndogz said:


> All men are created equal.
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> Does it say that all men should come here?  No.  They are created equal in Syria, in France, in Greece and it is up to them to seize that God given equality and make it their own.



There are quite a few countries where they do NOT Believe all men are created equal, that whole thing is mostly only in Western countries.


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## Indofred (Jul 13, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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I believe you're supposed to supply evidence to prove me wrong.
Perhaps the locations of WMD sites?


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 13, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


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I never said that people in Sudan have to believe that all men are created equal. But, I will say that you as an American should believe that Sudanese, Americans, Mexicans, etc are created equal and have those God-given rights.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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I believe that all men are created equal sure, but you need to know alot of countries don't believe in that and they wouldn't piss on our bill of rights if it were on fire. I believe America is a special country and we need to protect it and not let any Tom, Dick and Harry into our country.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 13, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> I believe that all men are created equal sure, but you need to know alot of countries don't believe in that and they wouldn't piss on our bill of rights if it were on fire. I believe America is a special country and we need to protect it and not let any Tom, Dick and Harry into our country.



I've understood from the start that not every country sees eye to eye with us. But how can you say that you believe all men are created equal, yet you don't have a problem with an immigration system that favors Canadians over Mexicans? If I am equal to a foreigner, why do I believe I can keep them out when my family was allowed in? Actions speak louder than words. My 4th great grandparents spent an afternoon on Ellis Island and never had to learn English. Now, in order to immigrate legally, you have to learn English (which is funny because the US has no official language, just a majority language) and pass a US history test. It's a bogus system that has strayed from the principles that made our nation great. 

I don't have a problem with limiting immigration, but it should be done fairly. We shouldn't set quotas and allow more Asians than Hispanics. That's racist. 

I don't believe illegal immigrants are doing the right thing, but if you were on the other side of the border and couldn't make enough for your family, would you hold the same opinions on immigration? 99% of us are immigrants to this nation, why do we have the right to deny someone something that was given to our ancestors?


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## High_Gravity (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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So your solution to this is to just let any Tom, Dick and Harry into the US? do you know how many poor people there in this world? we would be over run, if all you had to do was buy a plane ticket to the US and come on over this country would be flooded with people from third world countries.


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## signelect (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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It is illegal to break into any country and it is not your private perogative to decide which law to obey and disobey.  Vote to have them changed but don't break them.  If I busted out a window and moved my family into your house I bet you would call the police.

Your concept is absurd.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 13, 2012)

signelect said:


> It is illegal to break into any country and it is not your private perogative to decide which law to obey and disobey.  Vote to have them changed but don't break them.  If I busted out a window and moved my family into your house I bet you would call the police.
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Did I not just say that I don't support illegal immigration? Your example is more of a representation of what Europeans did to Native Americans.

I'm not supporting the breaking of the law, I'm pointing out how unjust a law is toward a group of people who are powerless to change it. It's easier to understand if you compress the situation. If a group of immigrants came to America and were GIVEN freedom and liberty, how can they then decide that they are the only ones who should be given that gift? I understand that it has to end somewhere, but our immigrant ancestors aren't any better than people who want to immigrate today. Why do we make todays immigrants jump through so many hoops?


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 13, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> So your solution to this is to just let any Tom, Dick and Harry into the US? do you know how many poor people there in this world? we would be over run, if all you had to do was buy a plane ticket to the US and come on over this country would be flooded with people from third world countries.



Well, any Tom, Dick, and Harry can come to the US. It's the Juans and Joses that have a harder time becoming citizens. If we cut back on welfare, there are only so many jobs for unskilled workers. An equilibrium would be met and people would stop coming. If there aren't any jobs available for immigrants and they know they won't get welfare, they won't come. 

Eliminate the magnet of free everything courtesy of the government


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## Unkotare (Jul 13, 2012)

Indofred said:


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Sure. Congressional approval for the use of force against saddam, and the fact that our forces have already withdrawn from that country.


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## Unkotare (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> But how can you say that you believe all men are created equal, yet you don't have a problem with an immigration system that favors Canadians over Mexicans?





Where on earth is there such a system?


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## Unkotare (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> It's the Juans and Joses that have a harder time becoming citizens.





It most certainly is NOT.


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## SW2SILVER (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't know were most of you are coming from here, from a practical or moral standpoint. I have been harassed, bullied, beat up,  and otherwise made to feel like  I don't belong in the country of my  fathers' birth. By these poor poor Mexicans of unascertainable immigration status. Pssttt: Immigrants aren't SUPPOSED to DO THAT. Illegal Mexican immigrants think they are the freekin bomb, they suppose they  are god's gift to man kind. I don't know what they THINK. They sure act like it. I don't know how many of you people actually live with these assholes, if you did, you would understand WHAT the bloody problem is here. Do yourselves favor here: don't defend illegal aliens.  Don't hire them. Don't pretend it's a humanitarian  issue or that only racists attack illegal immigrants. Because it isn't that simple.  It never was.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 13, 2012)

Unkotare said:


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Permanent residence (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"No more than 7 percent of the visas may be issued to natives of any one country. Currently, individuals from China (mainland), India, Mexico and the Philippines are subject to per-country quotas in most of the categories, and the waiting time may take longer"

Unkotare, we have that system right here? A maximum of 7% of green cards are allowed to be distributed to Mexicans, even though they make up a much larger percentage of those that apply. The line to get into America is essentially "longer" in Mexico, China, India, and the Philippines than it is in Canada.


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## SW2SILVER (Jul 13, 2012)

Let me see here, the difference between Illegal Canuks and Wetbacks? Oh Gosh,  11 million folk or so. Good lord. Canadians fought in WWII. Mexicans? Nada tomada. WWI? The Kaiser wanted to get Mexico  on his side...He promised to get their lands back if they fought America. Mexicans just astound me sometimes. Shouting Osama (the terrorist) at a soccer match they are losing against the US... That corrupt country, who's side are they on? They are colonizing this country. They aren't immigrating.


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## Unkotare (Jul 13, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


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You would do better if you understood what you were talking about.

Would you like to guess the country of origin of the greatest number of persons naturalized to the US in 2011? Hmmm?


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## Unkotare (Jul 13, 2012)

SW2SILVER said:


> Let me see here, the difference between Illegal Canuks and Wetbacks? .





Do you think that being a bigoted fucking asshole will grant you credibility? 



Wrong, asshole.


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## atlasshrugged (Jul 14, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> atlasshrugged said:
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> 
> > Unkotare said:
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http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/natz_fr_2011.pdf

Oh, I know that Mexicans make up the largest percentage of those naturalized, but the percentages aren't equal. If immigrants from Mexico make up 14% of naturalizations but make up more like 40% of the demand, that's favoring people from other nations.


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## Unkotare (Jul 14, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > atlasshrugged said:
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Look who just discovered google! And guess who rounded out the rest of the top 5? Go ahead, I'll let you google again to find out.


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## Unkotare (Jul 14, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> If immigrants from Mexico make up 14% of naturalizations but make up more like 40% of the demand, that's favoring people from other nations.



Execution of spin - fail

LOL!!! It would be a lot easier to just admit you were talking out your ass than to continue to make a fool of yourself like this.


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## Indofred (Jul 14, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Indofred said:
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You mean it was legal because your people said it was.
I disagree.
It would have been legal if it hadn't been based on lies. Please tell me where the WMDs were found.
The whole war was based on the claim Saddam had such weapons and was able to deploy in 45 minutes.
I believe the common US term is "What a crock of shit".

US forces in Iraq today.
Not so many troops but lots of advisers. Just like in Vietnam.
Get real.


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## Unkotare (Jul 14, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Unkotare said:
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That's right, according to the only authority that mattered.


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## Unkotare (Jul 14, 2012)

Indofred said:


> It would have been legal if it hadn't been based on lies.





Then you agree it was legal, or you don't understand the word 'lies.'


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## Noomi (Jul 14, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Unkotare said:
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That is apparently why we ended up in Iraq - the WMD, which didn't exist. Maybe no one knew they didn't exist until afterward, but I doubt it. How do you make such a huge mistake and then try and justify it after the fact?


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## Indofred (Jul 15, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Indofred said:
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So attacks on anyone is fine if the US says so.

Fine business.

Moron.


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## Indofred (Jul 15, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> > It would have been legal if it hadn't been based on lies.
> ...



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kiqs_ZxDiXM&feature=related]Bush Declares War! - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_A77N5WKWM]Bush admits that Iraq Had Nothing To Do With 9/11 - YouTube[/ame]

Bush lied.

Even the CIA admit it.

Ex-CIA official: WMD evidence ignored - CNN


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## Noomi (Jul 15, 2012)

I think what both Fred and I don't understand is this:

When someone targets Americans, like the underwear bomber for example, they are labeled terrorists. When America attacks, its 'liberating'. America blew the crap out of two countries for no reason at all. If Iraq had attacked America, they'd be labeled terrorists, so why does America get away with what other countries cannot?

Just seems like a double standard, no offense.


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## Indofred (Jul 15, 2012)

Noomi said:


> I think what both Fred and I don't understand is this:
> 
> When someone targets Americans, like the underwear bomber for example, they are labeled terrorists. When America attacks, its 'liberating'. America blew the crap out of two countries for no reason at all. If Iraq had attacked America, they'd be labeled terrorists, so why does America get away with what other countries cannot?
> 
> Just seems like a double standard, no offense.



Nail on head.

Both sets are equally wrong but one is condemned while the other is applauded.


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## Unkotare (Jul 15, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
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> > Indofred said:
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When you cut through all the bullshit, that's what it comes down to until or unless another country is strong enough to change it. If your impotence frustrates you, that's your fucking problem.


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## Unkotare (Jul 15, 2012)

noomi said:


> america blew the crap out of two countries for no reason at all.





wrong


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## Unkotare (Jul 15, 2012)

Noomi said:


> When someone targets Americans, like the underwear bomber for example, they are labeled terrorists. When America attacks, its 'liberating'.




NO, when someone or some group deliberately targets civilians in order to inspire fear as a means of promoting their political goals, they are rightly called terrorists. When America liberates millions from a brutal, murderous dictatorship, it's called liberating.


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## Indofred (Jul 15, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > When someone targets Americans, like the underwear bomber for example, they are labeled terrorists. When America attacks, its 'liberating'.
> ...



Would targeting civilians from a CIA bomber be included in that?

Look at your history.


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## Indofred (Jul 15, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Indofred said:
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That's handy.
You're saying the US is the playground bully.

Nice. Try an attack on Iran and see what China does.
If you government has the balls.
I think not.


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## Unkotare (Jul 15, 2012)

Indofred said:


> Nice. Try an attack on Iran and see what China does.






China wouldn't do anything. They're not stupid.


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## SW2SILVER (Jul 15, 2012)

What happened in Iraq is not relevant to the immigration thread. BUT, since people are segueing in that direction...The Bush Administration needed proof of WMD's, and they never got it. THAT was the major flaw in the logic behind the war. No proof= no reason to invade. And, it should be that simple . Was the War in Iraq "illegal"?  Define "illegal". Like, for instance, the difference between a legitimate immigrant and  an "illegal" undocumented alien. It's getting harder and harder to tell right from wrong  anymore with all the bulspit flying around.  I love you folks on this board, some of ya obfuscate and make things harder than they are. It's like the illegal alien thing. They shouldn't be here. They are harming this country, and only those poor deluded souls that are living in elitistvile far far   away from these pesky invaders seem to LOVE to protect illegal immigrants like some kind of endangered species. All they have to do is legally immigrate. THAT SIMPLE. But...noo. Make things all complicated.  Have a nice day, peeps.


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## Indofred (Jul 15, 2012)

SW2SILVER said:


> What happened in Iraq is not relevant to the immigration thread. BUT, since people are segueing in that direction...The Bush Administration needed proof of WMD's, and they never got it. THAT was the major flaw in the logic behind the war. No proof= no reason to invade. And, it should be that simple . Was the War in Iraq "illegal"?
> 
> *Define "illegal". *,.



In this case, knowing there were no such weapons.
It's pretty clear the US and UK governments were aware but ignored it..

If you dispute my assertion, say so and I'll post links later but I have less than enough time at the moment,
First day at full time school for my daughter and my first day back at work with all the kids around so it's going to be a busy one.
My mum will kill me if I don't get a picture of the kid in her new school uniform.
Come to think of it, my wife will be less than please as well.


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## High_Gravity (Jul 16, 2012)

Noomi said:


> I think what both Fred and I don't understand is this:
> 
> When someone targets Americans, like the underwear bomber for example, they are labeled terrorists. When America attacks, its 'liberating'. America blew the crap out of two countries for no reason at all. If Iraq had attacked America, they'd be labeled terrorists, so why does America get away with what other countries cannot?
> 
> Just seems like a double standard, no offense.



America blew the crap out of Afghanistan for plenty of good reasons.


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## Indofred (Jul 17, 2012)

High_Gravity said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > I think what both Fred and I don't understand is this:
> ...



An attack on the US by a Saudi citizen? 
Perhaps you could ask Bush senior what the attacks happened. After all Ex president Bush was having lunch with Bin Laden's brother the day before the towers went down.


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## Artevelde (Jul 17, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> Artevelde said:
> 
> 
> > The main issue about illegal immigration is that it is, well ... illegal and thus a crime. Illegal immigrants violate the law and should be treated accordingly. Period.
> ...



So how many hundreds of millions of immigrants would you like to let into the US because they come from a poorer country?


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## Artevelde (Jul 17, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> High_Gravity said:
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So an extra 1 billion people immigrating into the US would be OK for you?


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## High_Gravity (Jul 17, 2012)

Indofred said:


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Yeah ok.


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## Artevelde (Jul 17, 2012)

atlasshrugged said:


> High_Gravity said:
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Are you really this stupid? Or are you just putting on a show?


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## Artevelde (Jul 17, 2012)

Noomi said:


> I think what both Fred and I don't understand is this:
> 
> When someone targets Americans, like the underwear bomber for example, they are labeled terrorists. When America attacks, its 'liberating'. America blew the crap out of two countries for no reason at all. If Iraq had attacked America, they'd be labeled terrorists, so why does America get away with what other countries cannot?
> 
> Just seems like a double standard, no offense.



This is really stupid. First of all there is a difference between terrorist attacks and the use of legitimate military force by a sovereign country against another country (or ahainst terrorists, for that matter). If you can't grasp that difference I can only conclude ypu despise international law and civilization in general.

As for the US attacking countries "without reason": Afghanistan provided the base for horrendous terrorist attacks against the US. Virtually the whole world acknowledged that the US was right in invading Afghanistan and had very good cause to. As for Iraq, it was in breach of its cease-fire obligations and the resumption of hostilities in 2003 was thus fully justified. Would you have preferred endlessly bombing Iraq (like during the 90's)?


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## Noomi (Jul 18, 2012)

Artevelde said:


> This is really stupid. First of all there is a difference between terrorist attacks and the use of legitimate military force by a sovereign country against another country (or ahainst terrorists, for that matter). If you can't grasp that difference I can only conclude ypu despise international law and civilization in general.
> 
> As for the US attacking countries "without reason": Afghanistan provided the base for horrendous terrorist attacks against the US. Virtually the whole world acknowledged that the US was right in invading Afghanistan and had very good cause to. As for Iraq, it was in breach of its cease-fire obligations and the resumption of hostilities in 2003 was thus fully justified. Would you have preferred endlessly bombing Iraq (like during the 90's)?



As far as I know, there was no threat to the US from Iraq, and thus no reason to invade.


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## Artevelde (Jul 18, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Artevelde said:
> 
> 
> > This is really stupid. First of all there is a difference between terrorist attacks and the use of legitimate military force by a sovereign country against another country (or ahainst terrorists, for that matter). If you can't grasp that difference I can only conclude ypu despise international law and civilization in general.
> ...



Iraq posed a constant threat to its neighbours; refused to fulfill its cease-fire obligations; and engaged in anti-US plots. Sufficient reason to end the regime and its threat once and for all.


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## Noomi (Jul 18, 2012)

Artevelde said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Artevelde said:
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We went there under the guise of WMD. I don't remember Bush saying otherwise.


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## Artevelde (Jul 18, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Artevelde said:
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> 
> > Noomi said:
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Maybe you weren't paying sufficient attention.


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## Unkotare (Jul 18, 2012)

Indofred said:


> In this case, knowing there were no such weapons.






You still cannot prove that, of course.


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## Unkotare (Jul 18, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Artevelde said:
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You have a poor memory.


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## LilOlLady (Jul 21, 2012)

Unkotare said:


> Noomi said:
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> > Artevelde said:
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You make these little quirky three worders but have nothing to back it up. Lets hear what you have or shut the fuck up.
Bush had excuse after excuse of why we were in Iraq. First it was WMDs, then it was to get rid of Saddam, and then to give Iraq democracy. IF we had finished what Daddy Bush started the out come may have been different. The people are ready then to over throw Saddam. WE have no backing of the people in Afghanistan and when we go Afghanistan will go also.


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## Unkotare (Jul 21, 2012)

Go take your meds and finish your pudding, you feeble-minded old bag of shit.


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## SW2SILVER (Jul 21, 2012)

Illegal aliens. Immigration. You know, making excuses for illegal aliens invading the US, that's our given topic here. Making excuses for invading a non threatening oil rich country  and spending trillions of dollars of hard earned treasure in the process ,  THAT ISN'T  the  topic here, interesting as it is.  Deal with it.


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## Meister (Jul 21, 2012)

Noomi said:


> Artevelde said:
> 
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> > Noomi said:
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Actually, that wasn't the reason we went into Iraq.  Having said that, I don't think we should have invaded Iraq either.


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## SW2SILVER (Jul 21, 2012)

Let me say this, think of this a little parable or a metaphor. It's an exemplar. Years ago, 2 Mexican men with limited english skills came to my front door. Their  little truck overheated and needed water. They asked me nicely, and I let them take "aqua" from  my front hose. I let them, what HARM COULD IT DO?    OK, a little background here: Where I live was under  watering restrictions and it wasn't my watering day, second, it was illegal to  waste water pouring it into the street. I imagined them putting it in the radiator of the truck or in a gallon jug of water for 2 minutes or so.  Instead? They ran it over the engine of the truck for over 40 minutes until I shut the water off. I tried treating them like decent  human beings and instead they exploited that to their advantage. I tried telling them what what the problem WAS. I had a vision of a water board enforcement officer  magically showing up and doling me a ticket for being "NICE". All these jerks could say in comprehensible English was...NO PROBLEM. That was their mantra. No problem. I am the one that would get fined, I know what the rules were and I was the one that paid for those hundreds of gallons THEY wasted pouring into oblivion.  And all they could say? NO problem! They never said gracias, no thank you's, nada. Hispanic latino illegal aliens  love to say "no problem" with no regard to the rules or how their actions affect anyone else. Hispanic illegal aliens want to define EVERYTHING by how it effects THEM. Nothing else, That is sheer arrogance. That isn't what immigration is or should be about. These pricks act like they are entitled to do whatever the hell they want. All you folks that defend illegal aliens, your ignorance is akin to saying  " No Problem".  You assholes have NO idea who you are hurting and you don't care. You are trying to be nice, well so was I. I found out what pricks illlegals ARE.  They were arrogant and they were ignorant. Don't fall for all the lies arrogant ignorant people spread. It's like saying " NO PROBLEM"! There is a problem. Illegal aliens will exploit your well meaning intentions. I have plenty of little anecdotes when it comes to the misdeeds  to wettbacks. I try being nice, being a good liberal and they treat me like a floor mat, and they will do the same to any of the rest of ya. My great grandparents that immigrated here legally. They  never pulled this shit and, I bet they would roll in their graves if they knew we tolerated this crap now. Remind me again why we tolerate this crap?


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## Unkotare (Jul 21, 2012)

What an illogical mess that post was.


First, who have you seen here defending illegal immigration? Second, you just used the same illogical generalization that every racist asshole relies upon. Third, your little story shows that you let yourself get walked upon and then later decided to blame the world for your own weakness. 

Illegal immigration is a very serious detriment to the country and should be more vigorously addressed, but all you've done is show what a hateful, illogical milksop you are.


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## SW2SILVER (Jul 21, 2012)

What? Read the post again, smartass.  What the hell do YOU represent here other than being just a  contrary prick? I actually lived that little ditty.  I doubt you have a life, let alone anything to do with illegal aliens., Racist this, hater that....Ironic coming from someone like  you.  You relish being a jerk, an asshole.  I live with illegal aliens. YOU? NO?  You know all about it, though. Don't you?  You don't need to know a damned thing. I think you deserve a neg rep. But, I won't do that.  I am a good guy here. I think are you are just an idiot. Bye bye.


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## Unkotare (Jul 21, 2012)

SW2SILVER said:


> What? Read the post again, smartass.  .





I read it, you illogical fool.


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## Unkotare (Jul 21, 2012)

SW2SILVER said:


> I live with illegal aliens. YOU? NO?  You know all about it, though. Don't you?




I reckon it is very, very likely that I have more relevant experience concerning the topic than you and your little, teeny-tiny garden hose (if you know what I mean).

Don't get pissy at me because you have a weak character and posted a big pile of illogical nonsense.


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## SW2SILVER (Jul 22, 2012)

You are an egotist. Dude, I wasn't talking to or about you in post #90. But it became apparent to me what an self important jerk you are. Why did you answer my post? I wasn't talking to you or about YOU, asshole. Besides the fact you need mental counseling, the only big thing you have is your ego. You and illegal aliens...I see why you responded. You have something in common with illegal aliens, you are both self centered and oblivious. And just as nasty and mean. I think you need to grow up a little and get some empathy, Mr. big dick. Tell me what the hell you could possibly know that would cancel out all the bad things so many of us have had to suffer through with illegal aliens? On second though, I don't care what assholes like you think YOU know. You are irrelevant. Get some help. You don't know jack shit. Bye bye.


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## Unkotare (Jul 22, 2012)

If you're gonna be a sensitive little emo-bitch, don't bother posting at all. If you decide to post, don't be an illogical fucking bigot.


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## wolfwoman (Jul 25, 2012)

i agree with every word...  i live in an area where the illegal highway is furiously active.
many of the local hispanic s  even help them along..  one of the problems is that not just "poor starving mexicans hoping for a better life "  are coming over.. we see  asian,middle eastern,  russian,, south american and every other bleedin body come through here ...  along with ms13 the most ruthless and dangerous gang ever concieved..
and they come by the boat load..  many people in my area have been accosted. their homes broken into. animals shot.  and also  some people shot.  this is not a game people.
put up a 14 foot fence around mexico and landmine the first mile inside the us....


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