# How Can Anyone Defend This...



## PoliticalChic (Mar 13, 2011)

(Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.

Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the Jewish religious settlement of Itamar, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, for the killer or killers.

In a televised speech, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu expressed shock that the parents and three of their children -- including a baby -- were "brutally murdered on Sabbath eve while sleeping."

Netanyahu, in what appeared to be a warning to settlers not to launch revenge attacks, urged Israelis not to take the law into their own hands after the killings.

Israel has been loosening restrictions on the movement of Palestinians and goods in the occupied territory but maintains a system of roadblocks and checkpoints.


Jewish couple and three children killed in West Bank | Reuters


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)




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## bigrebnc1775 (Mar 13, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> 
> Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the Jewish religious settlement of Itamar, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, for the killer or killers.
> 
> ...



I'm sure some zionist hater will try to defend it.


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## Jos (Mar 13, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> 
> Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the Jewish religious settlement of Itamar, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, for the killer or killers.
> 
> ...



Do they know Who did this Murder?
It has happened before


> Rishon Letzion family of 6 laid to rest day after murdered at home


Rishon Letzion family of 6 laid to rest day after murdered at home - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

It turned out to be a disgruntled former employee


> Police revealed yesterday that the man suspected of killing six members of a family in Rishon Letzion last month had been employed at the family's restaurant and was fired about two years ago.


Fired waiter confesses to brutal murder of all six members of Oshrenko family - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


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## xotoxi (Mar 13, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> 
> Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the Jewish religious settlement of Itamar, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, for the killer or killers.
> 
> ...



 Who is defending it?


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## spectrumc01 (Mar 13, 2011)

*****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******


But how far would you go to defend your boarders against what you percieve as an invasion?  We have illegals running across the boarder here in the US daily, look at the legislation we try to pass against the illegals and anyone who helps them i.e. business owners and landlords.  We want to deny them everything from eduacation to medical care, no matter age or sex.  They are dying in our deserts and in supposed safe houses here in the US.  To listen to the people who live on the border talk they might be capable of the same things.  I think I might be able to understand the killings, but not defend them.


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## PoliticalChic (Mar 13, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> *****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******
> 
> 
> But how far would you go to defend your boarders against what you percieve as an invasion?  We have illegals running across the boarder here in the US daily, look at the legislation we try to pass against the illegals and anyone who helps them i.e. business owners and landlords.  We want to deny them everything from eduacation to medical care, no matter age or sex.  They are dying in our deserts and in supposed safe houses here in the US.  To listen to the people who live on the border talk they might be capable of the same things.  I think I might be able to understand the killings, but not defend them.



A ten year old, a four year old, a three month old...

Yes, they stabbed a three month old baby to death...cut her throat.


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> *****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******
> 
> But



But is the great negation. It negates the prior statement oh so well.

Neg for understanding how someone can break into the house of citizens and kill them all including slitting the throat of a three month old baby.

Neg indeed.


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## Jos (Mar 13, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> A ten year old, a four year old, a three month old...
> 
> Yes, they stabbed a three month old baby to death...cut her throat.



I condemn these murders, as has the Palestinian Prime Minister





> Salam Fayyad said Saturday in response to the attack, "Violence does not justify violence, we condemn it completely, whoever does it and whoever the victims are,"


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...k-settlement-1.348758?localLinksEnabled=false

At this point we still do not know who did it, I also condemn all those who use this murder as a weapon against the Palestinian people in general


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

> As victims of Itamar buried, Fatah names Square in El-Bireh after Coastal Road Massacre terrorist.








> "The PA refused to issue a clear and unequivocal condemnation Saturday, after a Jewish family, including three children, were savagely murdered by Palestinian terrorists," said Netanyahu's senior advisor Ron Dermer. "* Today the PA allowed a public square to be named after a mass murderer who perpetrated one of the worst attacks in Israel's history.*"





> The document presents the following examples of incitement culled from the last few months
> 
> * On March 9, Saidam called during a speech to turn Palestinian weapons on Israel, "the main enemy," and that internal differences should be set aside.
> 
> ...



Gov't aggressively goes after Palestinian incitement


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## spectrumc01 (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


> spectrumc01 said:
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Are you familiar with the settling of the western frontier and what attrocities took place on both sides?  Not condoning the behavior just saying I understand how it can happen.


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


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How you can understand the murder of innocents is beyond me. Accepting it happens is one thing, but understanding it is why it happens.

It is a support. Even if you use a 'but'.

Regardless of who has done the killing.



docmauser1 said:


> Five family members were found murdered in their residence in the West Bank Itamar settlement Friday overnight, after a suspected terrorist broke and entered the house and stabbed the five to death. Two children managed to escape and survived the attack, Army Radio reported. A Magen David Adom team that arrived at the scene at 1:00 a.m. announced a couple, their 11-year old child, 3-year-old toddler, and a one-month baby girl dead from stabbing wounds.






​



> Protesters disrupted traffic in major junctions across Israel on Sunday, in response to the deadly attack of a family of five in the settlement of Itamar on Friday.
> 
> The protests broke out mere hours after the funeral of the Itamar terror victims concluded, as thousands of Israelis turned out at the Givat Shaul cemetery in Jerusalem.





> The Fogel family - father Udi, 37, mother Ruth, 36, 10-year-old Yoav, four-year-old Elad, and three-month-old Hadas - were all stabbed to death in their home. Two other children in the house at the time were not hurt in the attack.





> *"This murder reminds everyone that the struggle and conflict is not about Israel's borders or about independence of a repressed nation but a struggle for our existence. Therefore, we cannot continue speaking about security while the essence is neglected &#8211; the essence which is Israel's right to its land," said Yaalon.*



Protesters block junctions across Israel in response to Itamar attack


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## Mini 14 (Mar 13, 2011)

I would not want to piss off the Israelis.

If they find out who did this, it will be very brutal, very barbaric, and very public.

They understand war. 

Netanyahu calling off the dogs is not a good sign for the perp(s).


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 13, 2011)

> The PA refused to issue a clear and unequivocal condemnation Saturday



Where is Israel's condemnation for a thousand civilians, including hundreds of children and babies, murdered in Gaza?


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## xotoxi (Mar 13, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> spectrumc01 said:
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I'm pretty sure that you never bring up murder cases like this to prove a political point, but rather to illustrate the atrocites that can be inflicted by man...therefore, I accept your OP.

But you have your work cut out for you to make a thread for each case of a family being murdered as they sleep.  Good luck!


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## boedicca (Mar 13, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> *****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******
> 
> 
> But how far would you go to defend your boarders against what you percieve as an invasion?  We have illegals running across the boarder here in the US daily, look at the legislation we try to pass against the illegals and anyone who helps them i.e. business owners and landlords.  We want to deny them everything from eduacation to medical care, no matter age or sex.  They are dying in our deserts and in supposed safe houses here in the US.  To listen to the people who live on the border talk they might be capable of the same things.  I think I might be able to understand the killings, but not defend them.




Actually, it looks exactly like you are defending the killings.

Two kids and a baby, as well as their parents.   Words are inadequate to describe how atrocious this is.


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

> Last month, Israel removed the Hawara checkpoint near Itamar.





> *The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the armed wing of Fatah, the dominant political faction in the West Bank, said it had carried out the "heroic operation* &#8230; in response to the fascist occupation against our people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".









> Medics remove a body from the house where five family members were murdered in the Jewish settlement of Itamar. Photograph: Jack Guez/AFP/Getty Images



Binyamin Netanyahu calls on world to act after killing of Jewish settlers | World news | The Observer


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

xotoxi said:


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Is that what you see here? Criminal murder?


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## Jos (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Is that what you see here? A simple criminal murder?



Go on then, what would you call it, "collateral damage" "Jewish shields killed in harms way", "the price of occupation" "they died as martyrs for israel"
the family is still as God-damn dead as the family killed by Damian Karlik
Fired waiter confesses to brutal murder of all six members of Oshrenko family - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

Jos said:


> Ropey said:
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I would call it terrorism planned murders. By a military wing of Fatah. Not a murder by a waiter for his own personal reasons. 

But you know this. You just try to soften the act by attempting to attach it to criminal murder. I asked xotoxi's understanding because I don't know what he meant.

But you are clear Jos.



> *The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the armed wing of Fatah, the dominant political faction in the West Bank, said it had carried out the "heroic operation* &#8230; in response to the fascist occupation against our people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".


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## Jos (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


> > *The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the armed wing of Fatah, the dominant political faction in the West Bank, said it had carried out the "heroic operation* &#8230; in response to the fascist occupation against our people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".
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> 
> and yet the chosen feel no need to respect the rules of this site, and give no link


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


> *The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the armed wing of Fatah, the dominant political faction in the West Bank, said it had carried out the "heroic operation* &#8230; in response to the fascist occupation against our people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".





Jos said:


> and yet the chosen feel no need to respect the rules of this site, by giving a link



Look to the original post. Open your eyes. Think. I know it is not an easy thing for you as you are working with limited resources.


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## Trajan (Mar 13, 2011)

Samir Kuntar gives this act a big


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## xotoxi (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


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Yes.  

Do you consider this to be an act of war?


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

xotoxi said:


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Of course not. They are not a country yet. 

I consider this an act of terrorist murder. Murder created to achieve the terrorism of people. Not a criminally responsible act. A terrorist responsible act.

This is created and supported by the military wing of a governing militia force. 

Do you consider Fatah and their Military Wing to be criminals?


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## xotoxi (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


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I think that terrorism is a crime.

And I don't any opinion on the situation over there.


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## Intense (Mar 13, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> *****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******
> 
> 
> But how far would you go to defend your boarders against what you percieve as an invasion?  We have illegals running across the boarder here in the US daily, look at the legislation we try to pass against the illegals and anyone who helps them i.e. business owners and landlords.  We want to deny them everything from eduacation to medical care, no matter age or sex.  They are dying in our deserts and in supposed safe houses here in the US.  To listen to the people who live on the border talk they might be capable of the same things.  I think I might be able to understand the killings, but not defend them.



Could you be any more full of shit???


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## Dot Com (Mar 13, 2011)

What were the Israeli's doing there?
West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> Legal status
> 
> The United Nations Security Council,[65] the United Nations General Assembly,[66] the United States,[67] the EU,[68] the International Court of Justice,[69] and the International Committee of the Red Cross[70] *refer to it as Palestinian territory occupied by Israel.* General Assembly resolution 58/292 (17 May 2004) affirmed that the Palestinian people have the right to sovereignty over the area.[71]


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## PoliticalChic (Mar 13, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> What were the Israeli's doing there?
> West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Are you directing that question to the three month old little baby girl who, I suppose, you agree deserves to have her throat slit.....

What is wrong with you?

'When Palestinian Islamists organized Hamas as the combat wing of the Muslim Brotherhood, with the characteristic new act of *murdering random crowds with a bomb, singling out women and children, a plus.*  Rather than a Palestinian state, the goal was suicide. *Parents, in their piety, addressed the press, wishing for the suicide of their children.* Posters in the kindergarten proclaimed *The children are the holy martyrs of tomorrow!* From Paul Berman, "Terror and Liberalism."

The act is a logical outcome from a culture that behaves as above.


a.	Historian Walter Laqueur: Let us not lose our ability to be astonished.
Seeing this story today, I realize that I'm following Laqueur's recommendation.


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## Dot Com (Mar 13, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> Dot Com said:
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I'll take that as a non- answer. They were on Palestinian property and we all know how conservatives feel inre: property- rights don't we? They willfully decided to settle on land that belongs to someone else UNDER THE LAW.


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

xotoxi said:


> I think that terrorism is a crime.



Let's define this a bit more then.  This would be considered an organized crime to you then?  I'm trying to understand if you differentiate between a common murder with it's singular intent to kill.

The one who kills for simply their own personal reasoning. 

And those who plan the same murders for the implicit reasoning to terrorize others? Who setup others to kill yet others and who accept responsibility as a military wing of a militia.

That's just crime as well? Organized crime? No more? Please explain how you differentiate as I'm quite unclear as to how you enfold acts that have such different accelerations. 

Or is death just death and intent is not at all important to you? It all can be dealt with by a court of law?

They crossed the border and killed in another country after the entire murderous intent came from the military wing of a governing force?

Who tries this kind of thing when the military side calls their murders a heroic acts?


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## PoliticalChic (Mar 13, 2011)

Dot Com said:


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Why did you leave this part out?

"Are you directing that question to the three month old little baby girl who, I suppose, you agree deserves to have her throat slit....."

There are folks who seem to be missing that part of their soul that allows the kind of empathy that would have obviated your post.

On the other hand, you seem to have mastered that element of objectivity, that I have not...as though, if you were to lose a dearly loved member of your immediate family- heaven forbid- you would immediately recalculate your grocery order to reduce costs. 
Bravo.


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

Dot Com said:


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The red cross and the International court of justice have no power to create anything but opinions. The Red Cross? LOL 

The International Court of Justice?

They need two sides to acquiesce to anything they put forwards.

Useless tools.


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## xotoxi (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


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I'm not really sure where you are going.

Are you implying that an American family murdered in the exact same way by another American is not equally atrocious?


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

xotoxi said:


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Not at all. I am saying that the Sharon Tate murders, and these murders have different facets to the murder. How to try them would be clear in one case but not the other. 

Even if you see them as simple crimes. I was wondering if you saw a difference.  It seems not.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 13, 2011)

Dot Com said:


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Israel never gave a rat's behind about any law.


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## xotoxi (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


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I consider a simple crime to be shoplifting.

These are grewsome murders.  And every murder is different.

The fact that two different ethnicities were involved doesn't make much difference unless we are going to discuss hate crimes.


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

xotoxi said:


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So you are of Obama's opinion that there are only crimes and degrees of culpability and intent? 

You just remove the other facets of the intent. With the wave of a wand. OK. Obama does that as well. Gruesomeness aside. 

You are not alone.  Let's see them try the detainees who are at Gitmo. Not seemingly so eh?

Bring them into the States and deal with them by civil law then.


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## Dot Com (Mar 13, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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Objectivity? of course. The law is supposed to be objective. Living on someones land w/o permission is illegal. Thats why the "settlements" are rightly termed "illegal settlements"

I'm just saying, what did these people expect? A parade? The settlers have been illegally occupying land for years and know well the potential consequences.


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## Care4all (Mar 13, 2011)

do they know who did this horrible thing?

Why are Palestinians being blamed if they don't know who did it?

I can see how it is presumed to be Palestinians as the disgusting murderers, but if they do not KNOW this for certain, i think the gvt should not have accused them.


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## xotoxi (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


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This has nothing to do with the States.  And I don't know how they will be tried.  That's immaterial, nor do I really care.  That is for others to decide.

My only point is that a Palestinian slitting the throat of a sleeping 3 year old Israeli is as gruesome an act as an Israeli slitting the throat of a sleeping 3 year old Palestinian is as gruesome an act as a white American slitting the throat of a sleeping 3 year old white American.

How they are tried in a court is another story.


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

Care4all said:


> do they know who did this horrible thing?
> 
> Why are Palestinians being blamed if they don't know who did it?
> 
> I can see how it is presumed to be Palestinians as the disgusting murderers, but if they do not KNOW this for certain, i think the gvt should not have accused them.



The Fatah Militia has claimed responsibility and called it an "Heroic Operation".



> Last month, Israel removed the Hawara checkpoint near Itamar.





> *The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the armed wing of Fatah, the dominant political faction in the West Bank, said it had carried out the "heroic operation* &#8230; in response to the fascist occupation against our people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".







The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the armed wing of Fatah, the dominant political faction in the West Bank, said it had carried out the "heroic operation"



xotoxi said:


> How they are tried in a court is another story.



Which is what intent is all about. Which is what jurisdiction is all about. etc. etc. etc. 

There is a difference then.


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## Care4all (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


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ahhhhh, thank you!  then the gvt was accurate!!!!


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## PoliticalChic (Mar 13, 2011)

Care4all said:


> do they know who did this horrible thing?
> 
> Why are Palestinians being blamed if they don't know who did it?
> 
> I can see how it is presumed to be Palestinians as the disgusting murderers, but if they do not KNOW this for certain, i think the gvt should not have accused them.



Amish?


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

Israel buries its dead.




Israel mourns its dead.






> Udi's brother Motti said: "All the slogans about Torah and settlement, the Land of Israel and the Jewish people try to make us forget the simple and painful truth:
> 
> You are gone. You are gone and no slogan will bring you back. Above all, this funeral must be a private event. Udi, you are not a symbol or a national event. Your life had a purpose of its own and your horrid death must not render life into a vehicle.
> 
> You are my brother and shall remain my brother."





> Minister Moshe Ya'alon attacked the Palestinian Authority over its anti-Israel incitement. "The murderers, if they'll be jailed, will be recognized as heroes and they will be honored by (Palestinian) schools. Such acts are routine with our neighbors.





> Rabbi Yehuda Ben Yishai, Ruth Fogel's father said: "We shall not bid you farewell. You shall come visit us like pure angels."
> 
> Rafi Ben-basat, a childhood friend of the father &#8211; Udi Fogel said that "the family is going through a very difficult time; we are trying to encourage them and give them strength. This was a barbaric act that only animals are capable of. It is time for the nation to sober up and tell its leaders to stop the concession for concession system.



There is a lot of pain. Israel opens the border at the behest of Obama and this is what happens. Obama urges Israel to open Gaza borders, so Israel begins by opening West Bank borders. 

20,000 attend Itamar massacre victims' funeral - Israel News, Ynetnews

This is what happens. It's not like we do not know what these Arabs want to do with us. 



> The principles of the Hamas are stated in their Covenant or Charter
> 
> Following are highlights.
> 
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Hamas Charter

We know. They tell us. 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY"]Islam: The Jews Are the Eternal Enemies of Muslims Regardless of the Occupation of Palestine [/ame]

They are very clear.


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## jillian (Mar 13, 2011)

Care4all said:


> do they know who did this horrible thing?
> 
> Why are Palestinians being blamed if they don't know who did it?
> 
> I can see how it is presumed to be Palestinians as the disgusting murderers, but if they do not KNOW this for certain, i think the gvt should not have accused them.



care, they know who did it. they always proudly take credit for their murder of jews.


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## spectrumc01 (Mar 13, 2011)

The first recorded act of genocide in human history is recounted in the bible when God told Joshua to kill every man, woman and "CHILD" in Canan.  So the Israelites did as they were commanded by their God.  I'm sure the families who had their children slaughtered by Joshua felt the same way as these jewish settlers did.

Does this make the killing right? No
Is this an atrocity? yes
Do two rights make a wrong? no
Can I understand how this happens between these two peoples? yes

They have been killing each other like this for thousands of years, and it doesn't look like it will stop any time soon.


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

*It took Youtube and Facebook all of two hours to remove this film.*

Why?


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## hipeter924 (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


> *It took Youtube and Facebook all of two hours to remove this film.*
> 
> Why?


"The trees told me to do it".

And wealthy Muslims probably have plenty of money invested in Google and Facebook, and the way YouTube treats Atheists and Christians alike when they post anything against Islam makes me believe there are likely Islamic radical mods too.

PS: Your link didn't work, this one does though: http://www.carolineglick.com/


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## Ropey (Mar 13, 2011)

hipeter924 said:


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It would seem. It just doesn't make sense when one watches that video of the Egyptian cleric calling for the deaths of all  Jews worldwide.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY"]Islam: The Jews Are the Eternal Enemies of Muslims Regardless of the Occupation of Palestine [/ame]

Spectrum can probably understand that as well.



boedicca said:


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I agree.


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## hipeter924 (Mar 13, 2011)

Ropey said:


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You Tube will lose its popularity soon, its been too commercialized and taken over by corporations and interest groups, its the first mainstream video site, and it won't be the last. The more they limit free speech, the more people they turn away or encourage people to stop contributing, thus begins You Tube's intellectual death (most Atheists have stopped posting videos about Islam as You Tube removes their videos basically as soon as they are posted).


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## rhodescholar (Mar 13, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> What were the Israeli's doing there?



Asshole, if this happened in greenline israel, what would your moronic comment be?  "What are jews doing in the middle east"?

Where were you before 1967 when this regularly occurred inside greenline israel - did you condemn these actions then?  Fucking little turd probably wasn't even born yet...and knows no history of the conflict before 2008...


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## Jroc (Mar 13, 2011)

*Palestinians Celebrate Massacre of Jewish Family *






Hey, let's celebrate our hero baby killer: Palestinian hands out sweets to Hamas policemen in Rafah


*Islamic depravity hits bottom. Keeps digging*: 

Rafah residents hand out candy following massacre of Jewish family, three children in West Bank settlement of Itamar.
Gaza residents from the southern city of Rafah hit the streets Saturday to celebrate the terror attack in the West Bank settlement of Itamar where five family members were murdered in their sleep, including three children.

Residents handed out candy and sweets, one resident saying the joy is a natural response to the harm settlers inflict on the Palestinian residents in the West Bank.

Meanwhile, Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad said he clearly and firmly denounces the terror attack, just as I have denounced crimes against Palestinians.

We are against all types of violence, Fayyad said during a tour in Bethlehem. Our position has not changed. As we have said many times before, we categorically oppose violence and terror, regardless of the identity of the victims or the perpetrators.

IDF and security forces have been scouring the West Bank area since late Friday night, and have arrested 20 Palestinians from the villages of Awarta, Zababdeh, Sanur and Siliya. The IAF employed unmanned aerial vehicle in an effort to search for the suspects.

The Hamas movement accused the Palestinian Authoritys security apparatus of arresting three of its activists near Qalqilya and Jenin.

The report of five murdered Israelis is not enough to punish someone, said Hamas Spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri, adding, However; we in Hamas completely support the resistance against settlers who murder and use crime and terror against the Palestinian people under the auspices of the Israeli occupation soldiers






Palestinian children are still made to 'celebrate' the Ramallah Lynchings today..

This degenerate, ghoulish behaviour, which almost defies belief is, in fact common practice by the Palestinians after murdering Israeli Jews.

The most well-known example was the Ramallah Lynching in 2000, where two IDF soldiers unfortunate to stray into the wrong area were killed and disembowelled in the streets by mobs of screaming Muslims.

To this day, the iconic image of the man holding up his blood-soaked hands to the crowd below him outside the police station where the slaughter took place, is still re-enacted by Palestinian children celebrating the event.

Palestinians Hand Out Sweets in Celebration of Massacre of Jewish Family -


----------



## hipeter924 (Mar 13, 2011)

Jroc said:


> *Palestinians Celebrate Massacre of Jewish Family *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're surprised you get this from people who venerate and love Hitler?


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 13, 2011)

rhodescholar said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > What were the Israeli's doing there?
> ...



Why the profanity? That is the first indicator of one conceding an argument dum dum.

 Israel is willingly breaking the law by encouraging people to move there. There is a reason they are called "the OCCUPIED territories" 

I support America. Every other country can sink or swim on their own. I owe no allegiance to any other country. What about you?


----------



## rhodescholar (Mar 14, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Why the profanity?



I do not suffer stupid, lazy, people who make absurd claims that are unsubstantiated by historical facts.



> Israel is willingly breaking the law by encouraging people to move there. There is a reason they are called "the OCCUPIED territories"



I do not support the settlements, but they are a fig leaf.  There was more terrorism BEFORE 1967, so it is obvious to those who are not stupid nor lazy and know their history that whether there are jews legally or illegally moving into the WB has little or no effect on the situation overall.  It is a propaganda piece used by the arab muslims and their apologists to confuse/convince the stupid, lazy people unable to think for themselves that it is an issue.



> I support America. Every other country can sink or swim on their own. I owe no allegiance to any other country. What about you?



Congratulations.  The last 2 times the US tried to bury its head we got WW1 and WW2.  How'd that work out for you?

Today, with a shit president unable to operate above the 3rd grade level, American foreign policy is non-existent and we see monstrous nations like china and iran expanding their spheres of influence...do you think that that is a good thing, and will help protect US national interests?

Should we just sit back and let nations like pakistan harbor terrorists who can then slip into the US and attack us?  Is that the adult, rational plan you have to offer?

The US cannot maintain an ostrich-like foreign policy, every time it has, the US has suffered.  Go read a history book.


----------



## Jos (Mar 14, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Let's define this a bit more then.  This would be considered an organized crime to you then?  I'm trying to understand if you differentiate between a common murder with it's singular intent to kill.
> 
> The one who kills for simply their own personal reasoning.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are describing  attacking the civilians of Gaza


----------



## Jos (Mar 14, 2011)

Ropey said:


> *It took Youtube and Facebook all of two hours to remove this film.*
> 
> Why?


Maybe it was removed because of the music from Schindler's List (copyright issues). 
There still others up if you need em


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 14, 2011)

boedicca said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > *****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******
> ...



I can't agree with you more. I have been outraged for a long time.

Children's deaths
TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
Israelis: 124
Palestinians: 1457

Remember These Children


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 14, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> *****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******
> 
> 
> But how far would you go to defend your boarders against what you percieve as an invasion?  We have illegals running across the boarder here in the US daily, look at the legislation we try to pass against the illegals and anyone who helps them i.e. business owners and landlords.  We want to deny them everything from eduacation to medical care, no matter age or sex.  They are dying in our deserts and in supposed safe houses here in the US.  To listen to the people who live on the border talk they might be capable of the same things.  I think I might be able to understand the killings, but not defend them.



This is much more than people coming to find work and a better life for their families.

They came to destroy a country and its people, and replace it with another. What would be a legitimate response to this invasion?

Invaders bringing their families with them to war creates unusual problems.


----------



## Avatar4321 (Mar 14, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> 
> Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the Jewish religious settlement of Itamar, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, for the killer or killers.
> 
> ...



You know, when people say "How can anyone defend this?" my first inclination is to find a way. Needless to say, I don't have enough information on this one. Maybe there is something we don't know. Somehow i doubt it. I am more inclined to believe this is the evil of man at work again.

I just pray that no one does try to take the law into their own hands.


----------



## LibocalypseNow (Mar 14, 2011)

Jroc said:


> *Palestinians Celebrate Massacre of Jewish Family *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Truly fucked up stuff but not very surprising. The Palestinians are known for this type of ghoulish behavior. They openly celebrated 911 as well. Yet our U.S. Government still gives them $Millions in American Tax Dollars. What a Foreign Policy. It's so sad.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 14, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > *Palestinians Celebrate Massacre of Jewish Family *
> ...



We give the Palestinians millions?

Really,who gets it and for what purpose?


----------



## Ropey (Mar 14, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Israel buries its dead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This bears repeating.


----------



## Nosmo King (Mar 14, 2011)

Avatar4321 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> ...


I agree.  But what I find interesting is that there was an immediate political spin put on this story.  Is there any proof at all that these killings were politically motivated?  

Could there be the possibility that there are psychopaths in every society and these killings, tragic as they are, were not the result of Israeli/Palestinian tensions but the result of a lunatic on the loose?


----------



## Jos (Mar 14, 2011)

Nosmo King said:


> Could there be the possibility that there are psychopaths in every society and these killings, tragic as they are, were not the result of Israeli/Palestinian tensions but the result of a lunatic on the loose?



It has happened before


> Waiter kills six members of ex-boss's family


Waiter kills six members of ex-boss's family | Metro.co.uk


----------



## Ropey (Mar 14, 2011)

Nosmo King said:


> Could there be the possibility that there are psychopaths in every society and these killings, tragic as they are, were not the result of Israeli/Palestinian tensions but the result of a lunatic on the loose?



Binyamin Netanyahu calls on world to act after killing of Jewish settlers | World news | The Observer

You say "Could" and yes could can encompass so much that has no basis in evidence.  Until there is evidence otherwise, this is what I am going with.

I prefer to stay with what we know.

The murders occurred.
The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the armed wing of Fatah, the dominant political faction in the West Bank, said it had carried out the "heroic operation &#8230; in response to the fascist occupation against our people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".

Binyamin Netanyahu calls on world to act after killing of Jewish settlers | World news | The Observer






> The initial findings of the investigation into the terrorist massacre in the Israeli town of Itamar in Samaria Friday night show that the Fatah &#8216;Freedom Fighters&#8217; stabbed the Fogel family's sleeping three year old in the heart and slashed the throat of his three-month-old sister.



Israeli Family Murdered in Their Sleep


----------



## Jos (Mar 14, 2011)

Ropey said:


> I prefer to stay with what we know.
> 
> The murders occurred.
> The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the armed wing of Fatah, the dominant political faction in the West Bank, said it had carried out the "heroic operation &#8230; in response to the fascist occupation against our people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".
> ...



you left out the word allegedly there is yet no proof


----------



## Ropey (Mar 14, 2011)

Jos said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer to stay with what we know.
> ...



Where is that word allegedly? Where is the Proof?

The proof of the entry at the fence is there. Even though the terrorists did not damage the fence, the proof of their entry was shown in the daylight. The same footwear shows this proof.

Their entry (shoes show proof) into the house is proven.

The deaths are proven.

The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, the armed wing of Fatah, the dominant political faction in the West Bank, said it had carried out the "heroic operation &#8230; in response to the fascist occupation against our people in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".

There is no allegedly in these facts. Allegedly is for trials not the gathering of evidence. You should know that.


----------



## LibocalypseNow (Mar 14, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



The U.S. Government has been giving $Millions in American Tax Dollars to the Palestinians for many years. All we get in return is them burning American Flags and celebrating 911. What a fucked up Foreign Policy. The American People should have much more say in how their tax dollars are used for "Foreign Aid." The System of handing out the cash is truly disgusting.


----------



## signelect (Mar 14, 2011)

There is no way I can understand the nature of the animals that did this.  When I find a rabid animal I shoot it. Same rule applies.  The Jews has been under constant attack since the establishment of Israel, it has never let up.  I also do not understand some of the things that they have done because I have not walked in those shoes.  A human being does not murder innocents like this, it is no wonder the cowards hide in the dark.  In all the years that Palestine has been on the west bank, there are no hospitals, no jobs, nothing but despair.  Their leaders steal their money and incite them to acts like this.  I DO NOT UNDERSTAND it.


----------



## logical4u (Mar 14, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> > The PA refused to issue a clear and unequivocal condemnation Saturday
> 
> 
> 
> Where is Israel's condemnation for a thousand civilians, including hundreds of children and babies, murdered in Gaza?



The ones used as a "forced" human shield to islamic terrorists?  The "shield" that the terrorists fired rockets from that position so they could proclaim Israelis as the bad guys when they used self-defense?  The same terrorists that then hacked the bodies or living to produce more blood for photo ops?

Yes, great comparrison.


----------



## LibocalypseNow (Mar 14, 2011)

Hey at least the Israelis pretend to like us. I still don't understand why our U.S. Government gives the Palestinians $Billions in American Taxpayer Dollars. All we've gotten in return from them over the years is more burning American Flags,more 'Death to America!' chants,and partying in the streets celebrating 911. What kind of investment is that? American Taxpayers should demand Palestinian funding be ended immediately. It has been proven to be a very very bad investment for American Citizens.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 14, 2011)

There's big differance with Jews who value the lives of all our people, as opposed to those who raise thier children to kill themselves in the name of Allah.


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 14, 2011)

Is anyone else tired of this BS thats been going on now, which the U.S. is subsidizing to the tune of @ $2,000,000,000/yr. BTW, for the last 40+ years?


----------



## jillian (Mar 14, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Is anyone else tired of this BS thats been going on now, which the U.S. is subsidizing to the tune of @ $2,000,000,000/yr. BTW, for the last 40+ years?



as opposed to the money we've siphoned into muslim countries over the same period of time?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into african countries for the same period of time?

as opposed to the money we've siphoned into latin america?

and israel troubles you?

damn, what's wrong with my side of the aisle on this issue?

it's retarded.


----------



## Ropey (Mar 14, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Is anyone else tired of this BS thats been going on now, which the U.S. is subsidizing to the tune of @ $2,000,000,000/yr. BTW, for the last 40+ years?


----------



## spectrumc01 (Mar 14, 2011)

This is how you "understand" what happened to the Israeli family.  Surely they did not deserve their fate, and I feel for their family.





Live by the sword die by the sword.


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 14, 2011)

jillian said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > Is anyone else tired of this BS thats been going on now, which the U.S. is subsidizing to the tune of @ $2,000,000,000/yr. BTW, for the last 40+ years?
> ...


They have been the largest recipient of foreign aid. No other country compares. Add to that, they've been caught spying on the U.S. > once:
Israel seeks release of spy in exchange for extending settlement freeze | World news | The Guardian


> Israel is *seeking the release of an American jailed for life for spying for the Jewish state in return for concessions in the renewed peace process with the Palestinians*, including the extension of a partial freeze on the expansion of settlements in the occupied territories.


Thats extortion and they resumed building the illegal settlements too. Now all the conservatives are up in arms against that Army Private. Well? Should the U.S. release him too?


----------



## Ropey (Mar 14, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> This is how you "understand" what happened to the Israeli family.  Surely they did not deserve their fate, *and I feel for their family*.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHQoxeIdg4w&feature=player_embedded
> 
> *Live by the sword die by the sword.*


Not at all. One understands the history and accepts the acts. Understanding lends legitimacy. 

Now you are clear. You say you "Feel for the Family" in one sentence and then move to "Live By the Sword and Die By The Sword" in another sentence.

You are clear.

Keep on with your understanding which attaches legitimacy. 

Dot Com was much clearer than you. It took the *highlighted *statement of yours to clarify your view.


----------



## jillian (Mar 14, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



what makes the settlements illegal? because a bunch of people who lost a war say so?

why shouldn't israel build until they have a peace treaty? who on earth unilaterally agrees to the demands of people who wage war against them?

that's nuts.

as for the rest of your post, you're all over the place and the connection between your comments is beyond tenuous.


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 14, 2011)

jillian said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



I went over this yesterday:
West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> The West Bank (Arabic: &#1575;&#1604;&#1590;&#1601;&#1577; &#1575;&#1604;&#1594;&#1585;&#1576;&#1610;&#1577;*, a&#7693;-&#7692;iffä l-&#288;arb&#299;yä
> 
> Legal status
> 
> The United Nations Security Council,[65] the United Nations General Assembly,[66]* the United States*,[67] the EU,[68] the International Court of Justice,[69] and the International Committee of the Red Cross[70] refer to it as *Palestinian territory* occupied by Israel. *General Assembly resolution 58/292 (17 May 2004) affirmed that the Palestinian people have the right to sovereignty over the area*


I thought the U.S. was a nation that abides by the rule of law


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 14, 2011)

jillian said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...





> what makes the settlements illegal? because a bunch of people who lost a war say so?



Please document the surrender and peace agreement.


----------



## Ropey (Mar 14, 2011)

"General Assembly resolution 58/292"

This is not a law. 
*The Meaning of Resolution 242 and 338*​
United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On November Twenty Two, Nineteen Sixty Seven, the UN Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution two four two, establishing the principles that were to guide the negotiations for an Arab-Israeli peace settlement. This resolution was a tortuously negotiated compromise between competing proposals. 

By examining what was discarded as well as the language that appears, it is possible to discern the Security Council's intent. The first point addressed by the resolution is the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war." Some people read two four two as though it ends here and the case for requiring a total Israeli withdrawal from the territories is proven. On the contrary, this clause does no such thing, because the reference clearly applies only to an offensive war. If not, the resolution would provide an incentive for aggression. If one country attacks another, and the defender repels the attack and acquires territory in the process, the former interpretation would require the defender to return the land it took. Thus, aggressors would have little to lose because they would be insured against the main consequence of defeat. The ultimate goal of Two Four Two, as expressed in paragraph three, is the achievement of a "peaceful and accepted settlement." This means a negotiated agreement based on the resolution's principles rather than one imposed upon the parties. 

This is also the implication of Resolution Three Three Eight. That resolution, adopted after the nineteen seventy three war, called for negotiations between the parties to start immediately and concurrently with the cease fire.

*Withdrawal from Territories - Resolution Two Four Two*​
The most controversial clause in Resolution 242 is the call for the "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict." This is linked to the second unambiguous clause calling for "termination of all claims or states of belligerency" and the recognition that "every State in the area" has the "right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force." 

The resolution does not make Israeli withdrawal a prerequisite for Arab action. Moreover, it does not specify how much territory Israel is required to give up. The Security Council did not say Israel must withdraw from "all the" territories occupied after the Six Day war. This was quite deliberate. The Soviet delegate wanted the inclusion of those words and said that their exclusion meant "that part of these territories can remain in Israeli hands." The Arab states pushed for the word "all" to be included, but this was rejected.
*
Arabs nevertheless made the assertion that they would read the resolution as if it included the word "all." *The British Ambassador who drafted the approved resolution, *Lord Caradon*, declared after the vote: "_It is only the resolution that will bind us, and we regard its wording as clear."_ This literal interpretation was repeatedly declared to be the correct one by those involved in drafting the resolution. On October Twenty Nine, Nineteen Sixty Nine, for example, the British Foreign Secretary told the House of Commons the withdrawal envisaged by the resolution would not be from "all the territories." 

When asked to explain the British position later, *Lord Caradon*: [URL="http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_un_242.php"]said: "It would have been wrong to demand that Israel return to its positions of June fourth, Nineteen Sixty Seven, because those positions were undesirable and artificial."[/URL]

*UN Resolution 242 clearly calls on the Arab states to make peace with Israel. *​
The principal condition is that Israel withdraw from "territories occupied" in nineteen sixty seven, which means that Israel must withdraw from some, all, or none of the territories still occupied. Since Israel withdrew from ninety one percent of the territories when it gave up the Sinai, it has already partially, if not wholly, fulfilled its obligation under 242. 

Arab states also objected to the call for "secure and recognized boundaries" because they feared this implied negotiations with Israel. The Arab League explicitly ruled this out at Khartoum in August nineteen sixty seven,, when it proclaimed the three "noes." This phrase was specifically included because the parties were expected to make "territorial adjustments in their peace settlement encompassing less than a complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from occupied territories inasmuch as Israel's prior frontiers had proved to be notably insecure."

The question, then, is whether Israel has to give up any additional territory. Now that peace agreements have been signed with Egypt and Jordan, the only remaining territorial disputes are with Lebanon and Syria. 

Israel's conflict with Lebanon is a result of fighting after nineteen sixty seven and is therefore irrelevant to 242 (Israel has said it would withdraw to the international border if a treaty is signed and the central government takes control of northern border areas currently in the hands of terror militant groups).

U.N. RESOLUTION 242: ORIGIN, MEANING, AND SIGNIFICANCE​
The dispute with Syria is over the Golan Heights. Israeli Prime Minister Rubin expressed a willingness to negotiate a compromise in exchange for peace, however President Assad refused to consider even a limited peace treaty unless Israel first agreed to a complete withdrawal.

Under 242, Israel has no obligation to withdraw from any part of the Golan Heights in the absence of a peace accord with Syria. It is also important to realize that other Arab states that continue to maintain a state of war with Israel, or have refused to grant Israel diplomatic recognition, such as Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Libya have no territorial disputes with Israel. They have nevertheless conditioned their relations on an Israeli withdrawal to the previous sixty seven borders. Although ignored by most analysts, Resolution 242 does have other provisions. 

*One requirement in that section is that freedom of navigation be guaranteed.*​
It is important to remind people this clause was included because a principal cause of the nineteen sixty seven war was Egypt's blockade of the Strait of Tiran. 

*Israel's Obligation to the Palestinians under Resolution 242?

THE PALESTINIANS ARE NOT MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN RESOLUTION 242!! *​
They are only alluded to in the second clause of the second article of 242, which calls for "a just settlement of the refugee problem." Nowhere does it require that Palestinians be given any political rights or territory. In fact, the use of the generic term "refugee" was a deliberate acknowledgment that two refugee problems were products of the conflict one Arab and another Jew. In the case of the latter, almost as many Jews fled Arab countries as Palestinians left Israel!! The Jews however, were never compensated by the Arab states, nor were any UN organizations ever established to help them.

In a statement to the General Assembly October fifteen, Nineteen Sixty Eight, the PLO, rejecting Resolution 242, said "the implementation of said resolution will lead to the loss of every hope for the establishment of peace and security in Palestine and the Middle East region." 

By contrast, Ambassador Abba Eban expressed Israel's position to the Security Council on May First, 1968: 

_*"My government has indicated its acceptance of the Security Council resolution for the promotion of agreement on the establishment of a just and lasting peace. I am also authorized to reaffirm that we are willing to seek agreement with each Arab State on all matters included in that resolution."*_​
It took nearly a quarter century, but the PLO finally agreed that Resolutions 242 and 338 should be the basis for negotiations with Israel when it signed the Declaration of Principles in September nineteen ninety three.

And let's remember. 

*The Resolution 242 was stated as, "But A Recommendation."*

Considering there are 57 Muslim countries who vote as a block against Israel it's not surprising General Assembly resolutions (non binding) are released.

But this is about the murder of a family.


----------



## rikules (Mar 14, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



just recently conservative palerider posted his amusement at the thought of liberals, making the mistake of driving through texas, being murdered by conservatives....

when these cons kill these liberals....

will they use guns or knives?

will they kill whole families?


----------



## Foxfyre (Mar 14, 2011)

I find this interesting that so many want to talk just about anything except that the fact that it was Palestinian thugs who broke into a private home to kill four innocent people including three little kids.

The closest we get to condemnation of that is "nobody is condoning it."?

Yes the USA sends aid to Israel along with more than 3/4ths of the countries of the world.  We send aid to Venezuela for Pete's sake.  The top ten recipients of US Aid in 2010 were Israel, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, West Bank & Gaza, Kenya, Mexico, Iraq, and Ethopia.  On average 150 countries around the world will receive U.S. aid in any given year.

So what do our friends here focus on?   Aid to Israel who happens to be the only real ally we have in that whole group.

If the Palestinians do not hold accountable those who murdered the mother and children, we'll keep sending them a lot of aid just the same, much of which will likely be used to launch attacks on Israel.

And sometimes that becomes a really bitter pill to swallow.


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 14, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> I find this interesting that so many want to talk just about anything except that the fact that it was Palestinian thugs who broke into a *private home* to kill four innocent people including three little kids.
> 
> The closest we get to condemnation of that is "nobody is condoning it."?
> 
> ...



"private home"? How so if it was built on property they didn't own? 

The point I made about aid is that they are THE LARGEST RECIPIENT of U.S. foreign aid, alot of which they use to purchase weaponry . I'm not talking $10 or 20 million here. I'm talking $2 billion/yr.* And they wonder why we have had few allies in the M.E.*


----------



## Jroc (Mar 14, 2011)

jillian said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > jillian said:
> ...



I guess there cannot be one Jew in the so-called "Palestinian" territories right? We have 1.5 million Arabs in Israel proper but not one Jew allowed in any future "Palestine" state. that tells you something doesnt it. There is no peace, there will be no peace, and I say the more settlements built the better.


----------



## Ropey (Mar 14, 2011)

Jroc said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...




[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY"]Islam: The Jews Are the Eternal Enemies of Muslims Regardless of the Occupation of Palestine [/ame]

They are clear. This is not about Palestine. This is about "Jews" and their religion.


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 14, 2011)

Jroc said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...


If there will be no peace, which looks to be the case after 40+ yrs, we need to stop s(p)ending $2 billion annually in U.S. tax payer $ over there.


----------



## Ropey (Mar 14, 2011)

There is no illegal settlements. That's just a concocted word. Arabian settlements are no different in the area.

If they were truly illegal, then the Arabians would simply take Israel to court and win.

D'oh.


----------



## Foxfyre (Mar 14, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I find this interesting that so many want to talk just about anything except that the fact that it was Palestinian thugs who broke into a *private home* to kill four innocent people including three little kids.
> ...



And here's one who is far more concerned that the home is built, in his opinion, on 'illegal' land than he is concerned that people would break in and murder a mother and three little kids.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > LibocalypseNow said:
> ...



That does not answer the questions.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)

signelect said:


> There is no way I can understand the nature of the animals that did this.  When I find a rabid animal I shoot it. Same rule applies.  The Jews has been under constant attack since the establishment of Israel, it has never let up.  I also do not understand some of the things that they have done because I have not walked in those shoes.  A human being does not murder innocents like this, it is no wonder the cowards hide in the dark.  In all the years that Palestine has been on the west bank, there are no hospitals, no jobs, nothing but despair.  Their leaders steal their money and incite them to acts like this.  I DO NOT UNDERSTAND it.


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 15, 2011)

Ropey said:


> There is no illegal settlements. That's just a concocted word. Arabian settlements are no different in the area.
> 
> If they were truly illegal, then the Arabians would simply take Israel to court and win.
> 
> D'oh.



You're funny  The U.S. ALWAYS has sided w/ them no matter what they've done.

BBC News - Israel to restrict white phosphorus use in future wars


----------



## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > There is no illegal settlements. That's just a concocted word. Arabian settlements are no different in the area.
> ...






Dot Com said:


> They resumed building the illegal settlements too.



You're funny. Where's the international law you stated?  The International law that Israel is breaking with illegal settlements?  It's surely not White Phosphorous, so whose the silly one?

 

Rather tangential in discussion aren't you. Try to stay on track. This is why jillian posted the above to you. You're all over the place with non contextual drivel.



jillian said:


> as for the rest of your post, you're all over the place and the connection between your comments is beyond tenuous.


----------



## kiwiman127 (Mar 15, 2011)

Let's put a perspective on this.

*Israelis and Palestinians Killed in the Current Violence*

At least 6,430 Palestinians and 1,084 Israelis
have been killed since September 29, 2000.

Children Killed
Israeli-124  Palestinian- 1,452

Israelis and Palestinians Killed since 9/29/2000

Bringing this up doesn't excuse the killing of this family.  But it does show that there is a two-way street in regards to the innocents that are killed.  Neither side is innocent of killing innocents.


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## Jos (Mar 15, 2011)

> *The consensus view of the international community is that the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank including East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights is in violation of international law.[39] The Fourth Geneva Convention includes statements such as "the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies".[40]
> 
> At present, the predominant view of the international community, as reflected in numerous UN resolutions, regards the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights as a violation of international law.[41][42][43] UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared the settlements illegal[44] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice*


International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

kiwiman127 said:


> Bringing this up doesn't excuse the killing of this family.  But


*
*


spectrumc01 said:


> *****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******
> 
> But



*But* is the great negation in discussion as it seeks to negate the prior statements oh so well.


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## kiwiman127 (Mar 15, 2011)

Ropey said:


> kiwiman127 said:
> 
> 
> > Bringing this up doesn't excuse the killing of this family.  But
> ...



And me using the word "but" gives people an excuse to be willingly in denial that this is factually a two-way street of senseless killing, right?


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

Not at all. Read the OP title. Are you defending the murders as legitimate acts by the military wing of Fatah?

If not, what are you doing?


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 15, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> *****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******
> 
> 
> But how far would you go to defend your boarders against what you percieve as an invasion? I would stop short of stabbing children and kill the fucking turd that killed a baby. We have illegals running across the boarder here in the US daily, look at the legislation we try to pass against the illegals and anyone who helps them i.e. business owners and landlords.  We want to deny them everything from eduacation to medical care, no matter age or sex.  They are dying in our deserts and in supposed safe houses here in the US.  To listen to the people who live on the border talk they might be capable of the same things.  I think I might be able to understand the killings, but not defend them.



this is by no means even close to the same thing.


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## Two Thumbs (Mar 15, 2011)

For those that don't know.

The local Pals celebrated the murder of an infant by passing out candies in the streets.

So while the killer may not have been a Pal, they sure do support it.


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## kiwiman127 (Mar 15, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Not at all. Read the OP title. Are you defending the murders as legitimate acts by the military wing of Fatah?
> 
> If not, what are you doing?



Not at all, these senseless killings make me sick.
I'm simply pointing out the obvious in an objective manner. It seems that some people get all riled up by the killings of the Israelis but not the Palestinians and thus the thread.  Anytime innocents are killed, no matter what their ethnicity is, it's a tragedy.


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

kiwiman127 said:


> Not at all, these senseless killings make me sick.



Then this would have been enough. The murders just happened so expect some anger. You coming in after the murders just happened with your attachment of understanding lends to a legitimacy of the murders.

I'm just clarifying that this is not what you meant to do. If you want to discuss both sides of the settlement issue (and not the outright murders of this family) then you may wish to create a post about that.

I'm sure many will enter the thread. I know I will.  

This thread was not the place for that, and most certainly in my view, not the time.


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## Jos (Mar 15, 2011)

*'Itamar killings carried out by foreign worker'*


> The Bethlehem-based news agency Maan, which is close to the PA leadership, ran a lead news story that claimed that a Thai worker had been arrested by the IDF on suspicion of killing the five members of the Fogel family on Friday night.
> 
> The agency did not say how it obtained the information. However, it said that shortly after the killings, Israeli security forces arrested all the Thai workers who were inside the settlement.
> 
> ...


'Itamar killings carried out by foreign worker'


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

Jos said:


> The agency did not say how it obtained the information.



Yeah.



> *Quoting a Palestinian *family living in the nearby village of Awarta, the agency said that the family members were slaughtered because the father refused to pay the Asian worker his salary, which is estimated at 10,000 Shekels.



Quoting who?



> A number of news Web sites *that are affiliated with the Palestinian Authority **claimed *on Monday that the Itamar killings were committed by a foreign worker ...



'Itamar killings carried out by foreign worker' | The Real Timer | Breaking World News in Real-Time

Now why would a worker inside the border need to go over the fence?  The boot tracks proof belies this attempt as well.


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## Jos (Mar 15, 2011)

The report was posted in Jerusalem Post | Breaking News from Israel, the Middle East & the Jewish World, it also stated


> Maan pointed out that no Palestinian group had claimed responsibility for the attack


Have you a link to anyone claiming responsibility?
The Alarmed fence had not been cut had it?


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## kiwiman127 (Mar 15, 2011)

Ropey said:


> kiwiman127 said:
> 
> 
> > Not at all, these senseless killings make me sick.
> ...



Based on "What is a Ropey?" etc; I can see why you reacted the way to did and that is your right.  I respect that.
However, I feel my posts are warranted as objectivity should be accepted in the face of a  one-sided thread like this.  
Why?  Because both sides are guilty of indiscriminate killings of innocents and both should be condemned.  But this thread doesn't address that fact at all.
Are discussion forums like this supposed to be just one-sided?  No!
However, am I taking just one side? No!
I'm pointing out facts and doing so objectively, am I supposed to cease and desist objectivity and just roll over to obvious one sided lynching sans substantiated facts?
I am truly sickened by the ongoing senseless killings and have every right to express that outrage.


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

kiwiman127 said:


> I'm pointing out facts and doing so objectively, am I supposed to cease and desist objectivity and just roll over to obvious one sided lynching sans substantiated facts?



Do whatever you like kiwiman. I've said what I think about what you think. That's enough for me. You have your own morals and ethics to look after.


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## kiwiman127 (Mar 15, 2011)

Ropey said:


> kiwiman127 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pointing out facts and doing so objectively, am I supposed to cease and desist objectivity and just roll over to obvious one sided lynching sans substantiated facts?
> ...



I have always been under the impression that being objective is good.  It's ethical and fair thinking. In other words, I'm comfortable with my morals and ethics. 

Where as jumping to conclusions is what?


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

This is a discussion thread. There are no actions I am creating on unsubstantiated information.  I am saying what I have read and what I think. 

There is no defense for these murders. Regardless.  Those who attempt to attach a legitimacy for these murders for any reason lose out to my view.

Be it the Israel-Palestinian issue or foreign worker that completed this killing. 

The OP was:  *"How Can Anyone Defend This... "*

Why you came into this thread after reading that title is your own moral and ethical choice as is every post you have made in here.

Not mine.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)

Ropey said:


> This is a discussion thread. There are no actions I am creating on unsubstantiated information.  I am saying what I have read and what I think.
> 
> There is no defense for these murders. Regardless.  Those who attempt to attach a legitimacy for these murders for any reason lose out to my view.
> 
> ...



I am not defending the murders. I am merely putting them into context. Israel kills ten times more children than the Palestinians.

You should have ten times the condemnation for Israel.


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > This is a discussion thread. There are no actions I am creating on unsubstantiated information.  I am saying what I have read and what I think.
> ...



You try and turn these murders into a condemnation for Israel?

Troll...


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)

Ropey said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



Why do you slime the Palestinians when Israel is ten times as bad?

Are you trying to sell something?


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

You try and turn these murders of a Jewish family into a condemnation for Israel?

Indeed you are a Troll...


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## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > This is a discussion thread. There are no actions I am creating on unsubstantiated information.  I am saying what I have read and what I think.
> ...



Automobiles kill thousands more people than either the Palestinians or Israelis do.

So we should focus on Automobiles and shrug off a viscious murder of a mother and three children as less inconsequential than that?

Putting things into context, can't you see that these are unrelated things even if automobiles are sometimes used to commit mayhem or murders?

This is what several of us are trying to point out.  The hatred for Israel is so pervasive among one group of society that they can't see anything as evil other than Israel.

  Those hating Israel here can't seem to bring themselves to condemn those who committed a horrible murder but seem to be justifying it because Israel is so evil?  And frankly, that's really incomprehensible if you want to be objective about this.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



Children's deaths
TOTALS SINCE SEPT 2000:
Israelis: 124
Palestinians: 1457

Remember These Children

I should condemn the Palestinians and not Israel? Why?


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## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Because Israel has not been engaged in the wholesale slaughter and murder of innocent men, women, and children.  Israel has not been lobbing rockets into residential neighborhood in an effort to hurt, kill, maim terrorize innocent people just because they aren't Israeli.  Israel has not been kidnapping, torturing, and beheading Palestinians.  Israel has not been sending suicide bombers to blow up busses full of school children and into crowded markets.   Yes Israel retaliates when attacked as ANYBODY would.

Evenso, you have NOT been condemning the Palestinians who committed that horrible murder or the Palestinians at all.  You are focused on condemning Israel.  And that is what destroys your argument.


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## Jos (Mar 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Those hating Israel here can't seem to bring themselves to condemn those who committed a horrible murder but seem to be justifying it because Israel is so evil?  And frankly, that's really incomprehensible if you want to be objective about this.


I think everyone here condemns this murder, even the Palestinians have condemned it


> *No Palestinian faction has claimed to have carried out the attack. Palestinian leaders in Ramallah have condemned the killing of children, and the Fatah-affiliated Al-Aqsa Brigades released a statement Tuesday afternoon saying they "oppose the targeting of civilians and killing of children no matter what the pretext may be."*


Maan News Agency: Itamar settlers erect new illegal outpost


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## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

Jos said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Those hating Israel here can't seem to bring themselves to condemn those who committed a horrible murder but seem to be justifying it because Israel is so evil?  And frankly, that's really incomprehensible if you want to be objective about this.
> ...



Condemning the murders but not the murderers are two different things though.  Several here seem to be doing their damndest to shift the blame to Israel instead of holding the murderers in contempt.


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## Jos (Mar 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



We dont know who the murderer is do we?


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## Dot Com (Mar 15, 2011)

Jos said:


> > *The consensus view of the international community is that the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank including East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights is in violation of international law.[39] The Fourth Geneva Convention includes statements such as "the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies".[40]
> >
> > At present, the predominant view of the international community, as reflected in numerous UN resolutions, regards the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights as a violation of international law.[41][42][43] UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared the settlements illegal[44] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice*
> 
> ...



I've posted this 2X already yet Ropey doesn't seem to notice it:
West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> Settlements and international law
> Israeli settlements on the West Bank beyond the Green Line border are considered by the United Nations among others to be illegal under international law.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements


> The consensus view of the international community is that the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights is in violation of international law


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank#Legal_status


> Legal status
> 
> The United Nations Security Council,[65] the United Nations General Assembly,[66] the United States,[67] the EU,[68] the International Court of Justice,[69] and the International Committee of the Red Cross[70] refer to it as Palestinian territory occupied by Israel. General Assembly resolution 58/292 (17 May 2004) affirmed that the Palestinian people have the right to sovereignty over the area.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)




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## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


>



Again it isn't who is strongest.  It is who is in the wrong.

It is wrong to target civilians.  It is not wrong to retaliate against those who target civilians.

The police always have more authority, fire power, and ability to retaliate than do the criminals.  So you condemn them too just because they have more ability to defend the innocent than do those committing crimes?

Unlike the Palestinan thugs, the Israelis do try very hard to pull their punches and not intentionally target civilians.  But when the Palestinian cowardly thugs intentionally put their rocket launchers etc. in civilian neighborhoods for the specific purpose of drawing Israeli fire to those neighborhoods, who is the guilty party then?

All the Palestinians have to do is declare peace, police their own thugs, and honestly try to live in peace with the Israelis.  When they do that, I believe they will be in absolutely no danger of any kind from the Israelis, will benefit from shared trade, and, when the Israelis believe it is safe, the fences and walls will come down.

If the Israelis put away their weapons however and extend a hand of friendship to the Palestinians, they will be destroyed.

That is the fact of the matter.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



Israel is a foreign invasion of Palestine. It has always been the aggressor. The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Israel came to take over their country.


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## GHook93 (Mar 15, 2011)

The so called "settlements" are primarily constructed by PALESTINIANS. They are a huge source of LIVELIHOOD for many Palestinians. The people who complained the most and were the most effected by the freeze where the Palestinian labors, construction workers and construction supply companies! They were mad about it!

The Palestinian economic boom in Judea and Samaria are SOLELY because of the Jewish Cities being built there! Without them, they would be in economic peril! Commerce and trade is NOT uncommon amongst the Palestinians and "settlers."

And only a true antisemite like you, would say and take the stance that any Palestinian State would have to be Jew-Free. In fact, if a future Palestinian state were to include these Jewish cities, then they would be lucky that established communities, infrastructures and tax paying residents were already in place! Schools, electricity, apartment buildings, pumping, commerical stores, robust economies, industrial buildings, manufacturing plants, roads, police stations, fire departments, hospitals, water towers, water treatment sites and most technologically advanced farms on the planet are located in these cities. The Palestinians should embrace this! 

It's not a unique idea. When the Soviet States broke apart from Russia, the Russians that moved in Ukraine, Georgia, Poland etc and purchase land and made it their homes prior to succession were not forced to move. They became citizens of the country they were in! In fact Poland, Ukraine, Georgia etc all have large Russian minorities!

Funny how liberal scumbags like you preach how great diversity is, unless its the Jews and Christians trying to live in Arab or Muslim countries. That is bad in your liberal eyes! You're a hack a fraud! 



> Loading...
> It's a startling fact: The *workers building Israel's West Bank settlements have generally been Palestinians.*
> 
> Now comes a twist: earlier this year, the Palestinian government passed a law forbidding work in the settlements &#8212; and its determination to stamp out the phenomenon is being sorely tested in recent weeks, as a settlement building boomlet has emerged in the West Bank.
> ...


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## PoliticalChic (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


>




How unusual for you to post the actual events, in order of importance in the conflict...

1. First, the Jewish people are bombed by the aggressors....

2. And then, finally, they respond, causing injury and death as a result of being attacked.
That is, of course, the usual timelines vis-a-vis democracies vs. totalitarian nations.

Would I be correct in assuming that you have finally seen the light...that if the bombings would cease, so would the responses?

If so, Bravo!


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## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Do you really believe this stuff when you write it?  You do know that it was British territory, donated by Great Britian and authorized by the United Nations, that was the teensy plot of land designated as a refuge for Jews displaced in other countries through no fault of their own?  Further at the time the Israelis were more than willing to coexist peacefully with the Palestinians living there.  It was THE PALESTINIANS who chose to flee because the Arabs intended to attack the new nation and then they intended to come back.  Well, the Israelis won that war and all other such wars afterwards.  Those Palestinians and their progeny who didn't flee are now mostly happy, prosperous, citizens of Israel.  Well over a million of them in a tiny nation.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)

The "one state solution" envisioned by people like Ali Abunimah and Ghada Karmi would mean that the Jews would remain in their current homes or move freely wherever they want.

Sounds like a good idea to me.


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## GHook93 (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> The "one state solution" envisioned by people like Ali Abunimah and Ghada Karmi would mean that the Jews would remain in their current homes or move freely wherever they want.
> 
> Sounds like a good idea to me.



That's because you're a dumbass!


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



The British administered the territory. They did not take possession. The citizens were Palestinians. Their birth certificates said born in Palestine. The land was ceded to the Palestinian government.

The British had no land to give to anybody.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



There WAS no Palestinian government there.  I doubt very seriously there were any birth certificates issued to anybody born there at that time.  You're right though that Britain was a protector rather than the owner of the land that had been allocated by the League of Nations for all areas without a central government and unable to stand on their own.  But from 1920 on, the British Mandate intended that area to be a homeland for displaced Jews--much more land than the Jews eventually wound up with.


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## GHook93 (Mar 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



This fool just makes up shit! What color is the sky PF? PF response, "Any color I choose to say it is! What is wrong with that?"


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



"Davis explains, "I dont describe myself as a Palestinian Jew, I actually happen to be a Palestinian Jew, I was born in Jerusalem in 1943 in a country called Palestine and the title of my birth certificate is 'Government of Palestine'."

Palestinian Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Really.  The closet thing to a "Palestinian Government" was in 1919 when some Palestinian families organized a "Palestinian Arab Conference, but they were still under British guidance.  Perhaps Britian issued some birth certificates in 1943?  I don't know.  It was at that time that the Palestinians considered themselves more citizens of Syria than anywhere else though.  And it was at that time that they prohibited any more Jews from immigrating into the area.



> In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."
> 
> The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."
> 
> ...


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## GHook93 (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Wikipedia!!! Is that the best you got, you fucking loser!


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## Dot Com (Mar 15, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> That's because you're a dumbass!





GHook93 said:


> This fool just makes up shit! What color is the sky PF? PF response, "Any color I choose to say it is! What is wrong with that?"





GHook93 said:


> Wikipedia!!! Is that the best you got, you fucking loser!


Keep *cough* "helping" your side w/ your content-free remarks  GHook93 LOL

All you're saying with those dopey responses is that you have nothing to add. Got it ;-)


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Let's flesh this out, shall we?



> Uri Davis, an Israeli citizen, academic, activist and observer-member in the Palestinian National Council living in the Arab town of Sakhnin, identifies himself as an "anti-Zionist Palestinian Jew".[7][8] Davis explains, "I don&#8217;t describe myself as a Palestinian Jew, I actually happen to be a Palestinian Jew, I was born in Jerusalem in 1943 in a country called Palestine and the title of my birth certificate is 'Government of Palestine'.
> 
> That is neither here nor there, though. It is significant only in a political context in which I am situated, and the political context that is relevant to my work, my advocacy of a critique of Zionism. I'm an anti-Zionist Jew."[8]
> 
> He has since converted to Islam in 2008 to marry a Palestinian Muslim woman Miyassar Abu Ali whom he met in 2006.[9][10][11]"]



Palestinian Jews - eNotes.com Reference

When was this document created?

Wikipedia is notorious for half truths and many lies interspersed with truths.


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Jos said:
> 
> 
> > > *The consensus view of the international community is that the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank including East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights is in violation of international law.[39] The Fourth Geneva Convention includes statements such as "the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies".[40]
> ...



None of those are laws. Those are no more than recommendations. 

With 57 Muslim countries who vote as a block in the General Assembly it is understandable how so many resolutions get passed. Like the recent one on Blasphemy which only affects Muslims but is a resolution for the world to follow the Islamic Blasphemy Law.

Yes, indeed. But the thing is that none of these are binding resolutions and NONE are law.


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## Dot Com (Mar 15, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> Wikipedia!!! Is that the best you got, you fucking loser!



You prove, day in and day out, that you're one of the biggest idiots on the board


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Wikipedia!!! Is that the best you got, you fucking loser!
> ...



I just proved how Wikipedia takes the Davis statement and hacks a portion out removing much context.

It also does not show the connections between Davis...


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## Dot Com (Mar 15, 2011)

Ropey said:


> None of those are laws. Those are no more than recommendations.
> 
> With 57 Muslim countries who vote as a block in the General Assembly it is understandable how so many resolutions get passed. Like the recent one on Blasphemy which only affects Muslims but is a resolution for the world to follow the Islamic Blasphemy Law.
> 
> Yes, indeed. But the thing is that none of these are binding resolutions and NONE are law.



Israel has one, at most two accomplices, who consistently vote w/ the apartheid State in the U.N. Others may vote w/ them occasionally but most don't.


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > None of those are laws. Those are no more than recommendations.
> ...



And now it is clear why you came in this thread about an Israeli family brutally butchered.

You did so to post the above underlined drivel. Create a thread about Israel being an Apartheid State. I'll enter it you can be sure. 

You just can't help sticking your foot in your mouth, can you?


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## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...



Sometimes Wikipedia does a good job pulling a lot of information together that would otherwise take a lot of time to dig out from numerous other sources.  But anybody who trusts Wiki to get it right or uses it as an authority is really REALLY foolish.  Too often information, most especially historical information, is written from a highly biased point of view and there will be absolutely no effort made for any kind of objectivity.

I frequently go to Wiki to see what's there and, when I know the info to be right, will even quote Wiki WITH a disclaimer that it IS Wiki and I think they have it right, but it should be verified with other sources before adopted as truth or the whole truth.

Wiki is useful to pick up names, dates, and key words to use to research from more reliable sources, which is what you did in the case you just cited.  In that case, the Wiki account was obviously written by somebody who wanted to produce an appearance that the uninformed and gullible would swallow hook, line, and sinker.

You didn't.  Kudos for that.


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



It's too bad that there's no internal contextual verification procedure. Until they begin to fully verify data I believe that they can do more harm than good in the public domain. None of it would stand in courts because the real truth will come out.  

They are not an "Encyclopaedia" with regards to full content and contextual validation. 

Ill informed is not better informed.  In this case it was useful in ferreting out the reason for the poster to post in this thread. It was put in Wiki in that form, for that reason. To confuse and obfuscate the truth. And was used here to do the same. 

As I posted with regards to Resolution 242, sometimes what is left out clarifies the intent. This is why all drafts are available. So we can see the stages and steps that were taken in order to legaly codify the document. 

We see the intent in Resolution 242 with regards to "Land" and "All Land".  The intent is clear by the very nature of the request for the 'inclusion' of "All"  which shows that conversely the Arabian countries clearly understood that "All" was not implied.


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## spectrumc01 (Mar 15, 2011)

Two Thumbs said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > *****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******
> ...



How did I manage to get misquoted, " I would stop short of stabbing children and kill the fucking turd that killed a baby." never said that.  check page one of the thread.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

Understanding what a motive is and condoning or shifting blame for an act are two entirely separate things.

In my opinion a bad act should be evaluated as a bad act.

A viscious murder of innocents is a viscious murder regardless of the motive.

Unintended casualties of war are one thing.

Deliberately slashing the throat of a mother and three small children quite another.

And in my opinion, nobody who values the sanctity of life or anything that is good and decent and profitable can justify that act in any way or use anything other than insanity to excuse the murderer who did it.


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## Jroc (Mar 15, 2011)

You guys allowed PT and his buddies to successfully hijack this thread, Ropey was right in his previous posts, you are now are now defending Israelis right to exist, which is not what this thread is about stay on topic there are plenty of other threads to discuss that topic or start a new one


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## spectrumc01 (Mar 15, 2011)

As an aside, how many fathers or heads of households would knowingly move their families into an area where violence of this nature is possible?  Surely there must be some sort of responsibility on the fathers part.  You don't see too many open Klan members moving into Compton do ya?


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## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> As an aside, how many fathers or heads of households would knowingly move their families into an area where violence of this nature is possible?  Surely there must be some sort of responsibility on the fathers part.  You don't see too many open Klan members moving into Compton do ya?



Now  you are clear. Quoted for posterity.  It doesn't take long to make the victims the culprits in an aside.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 15, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> As an aside, how many fathers or heads of households would knowingly move their families into an area where violence of this nature is possible?  Surely there must be some sort of responsibility on the fathers part.  You don't see too many open Klan members moving into Compton do ya?



Who told these settlers that it was safe to raise a family in a war zone on some else's land?

How many people take their families with them to Afghanistan?


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## Dot Com (Mar 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Understanding what a motive is and condoning or shifting blame for an act are two entirely separate things.
> 
> In my opinion a bad act should be evaluated as a bad act.
> 
> ...



What would you do if someone pulled a truck up in your back yard, dumped a load of lumber, and started constructing a house?

This is what monotheistic (Abrahamic) religion does to people. They willingly put themselves in danger, not to mention break the law, to prove a point. Sad that.


----------



## Ropey (Mar 15, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Understanding what a motive is and condoning or shifting blame for an act are two entirely separate things.
> ...



P F meet Dot Com. May you be happy ever after.

I understand. You've got some fine Jew haters who won't come in here but who will rep you for this kind of stand on a thread about the murder of a family.


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## Dot Com (Mar 15, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



There is a legal term called "culpability". Its like robbing a bank then complaining when you get shot.


----------



## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Understanding what a motive is and condoning or shifting blame for an act are two entirely separate things.
> ...



Baloney.  Do you honestly think normal people would go find an innocent mother and three very young children and slit their throats just because they felt somebody was invading their turf?   Is that truly what you intend to say here?  I have NEVER met a Jew who thought something like that was justifiable under ANY circumstances.  Judaism is a monotheistic religion.  I have NEVER met a Christian who thought something like that was justifiable under ANY circumstances.  Christianity is a monotheistic religion.

Like too many of your brethren you deny condoning that even as you strain at gnats trying to justify it.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 15, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...





Yep... "If the Arabs disarmed there would be peace, if the Jews disarmed there would be genocide" it's not about Israel, it's about the elimination of the Jews for these people. If a Jew had murdered an arab family as happened here no Jew I know would ever try to justify that kind of evil, yet we have Americans suppose civilized people trying to justify this evil, it's unbelievable to me.


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## Dot Com (Mar 15, 2011)

Israeli Army T-Shirts Mock Gaza Killings  Terrorist fashion 2009 | Sabbah Report


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## Foxfyre (Mar 15, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Israeli Army T-Shirts Mock Gaza Killings  Terrorist fashion 2009 | Sabbah Report



If you are intellectually honest you'll go to the Haaretz website and read ALL the articles re soldier misconduct.   And read the actual articles rather than what some hate site says about them.  And the IDF IS investigating any charges of soldier misconduct.

Do you suppose the Palestinians are conducting investigations re the deliberate murder of the mother and three children?


----------



## blu (Mar 16, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> 
> Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the Jewish religious settlement of Itamar, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, for the killer or killers.
> 
> ...



what did they expect when they steal people's land?


----------



## BrianH (Mar 16, 2011)

Hearing about children getting killed really breaks me up.  I used to be pretty resiliant to this kind of stuff, but since I've had a little girl of my own this kind of stuff really gets to me.  I couldn't imagine my little one being subject to such atrocities; and it breaks my heart to know that some other child did.  I hope the one responsible is caught and punished.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 16, 2011)

blu said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> ...



So in your mind that family, those children deseved to be slaughterd ? More scum joins the chorus.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 16, 2011)

Jroc said:


> *Palestinians Celebrate Massacre of Jewish Family *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thats fucking disgusting.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 16, 2011)

Jroc said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Blu is a fucking faggot piece of shit, so its not surprising.


----------



## blu (Mar 16, 2011)

Jroc said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



its no different than israel bombing elementary schools


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 16, 2011)

blu said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > blu said:
> ...


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## logical4u (Mar 16, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > None of those are laws. Those are no more than recommendations.
> ...



So, it isn't enough for you that infants and toddlers are butchered simply for being alive?  Now you want to disrespect a people too, the only country that offers freedom in that entire ME area.  

Did you belong to the KKK and claim that blacks deserved to be hung because they were of color???

You probably claim to be a tolerant liberal too.


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## logical4u (Mar 16, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> As an aside, how many fathers or heads of households would knowingly move their families into an area where violence of this nature is possible?  Surely there must be some sort of responsibility on the fathers part.  You don't see too many open Klan members moving into Compton do ya?



You are all for the Caste system, too?

Why should a family have to worry about being slaughtered in their sleep inside their own home?  If there was no legal opposition to the building of the house, the buying of the house, why should there be an objection to actually living in the house?

Liberty and freedom don't seem to mean much to some of the posters here.


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## logical4u (Mar 16, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > As an aside, how many fathers or heads of households would knowingly move their families into an area where violence of this nature is possible?  Surely there must be some sort of responsibility on the fathers part.  You don't see too many open Klan members moving into Compton do ya?
> ...



Where, in what country is the welcome and safety of jews advertised/proclaimed/assured?  This wasteland in 1948 was returned to the people that lived there for eons.  The people that were rejected from officially settling there (Palestinians) by the surrounding Arab nations continued the way of life they have lived since the inception of the "religion of peace": kill your brother, kill your neighbor, kill the next community, kill the next nation.  The "religion of peace" has followers that are intent on upholding this tradition down to killing little children.  
Do you support the killing of little children because you couldn't have what the parents purchased?
Do you support the killing of little children because you don't like the parents?
Do you support the killing of little children because you belong to a different religion than the parents?
Do you support the killing of little children because you want to eliminate that "race"?

Do you believe that individuals have the eternal right to make choices for themselves?


----------



## logical4u (Mar 16, 2011)

Dot Com said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > Understanding what a motive is and condoning or shifting blame for an act are two entirely separate things.
> ...



Did they legally purchase/win the land?  If they did, I should do nothing, it is theirs, not mine.


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## Bfgrn (Mar 16, 2011)

bigrebnc1775 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> ...



No one should defend this, and no one should assume who it was committed by or that it was politically or religiously motivated until the perpetrator is caught. 

To do otherwise is trying to use this tragedy for political gain, like PC is doing.


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## Dot Com (Mar 16, 2011)

Wonder if this policy is still in effect?:

Geneva Conventions give the lie to Israeli stance on new settlements - Times Online


> Often they are professionals, many of them young people looking for cheaper housing or *tax breaks provided by the Government to encourage people to live there.*



if so, the government is stirring the pot/instigating trouble


----------



## logical4u (Mar 16, 2011)

BrianH said:


> Hearing about children getting killed really breaks me up.  I used to be pretty resiliant to this kind of stuff, but since I've had a little girl of my own this kind of stuff really gets to me.  I couldn't imagine my little one being subject to such atrocities; and it breaks my heart to know that some other child did.  I hope the one responsible is caught and punished.



This is the epitome of cowardice.
They will be, if not in this life, then in the next one.  In the book Jerimiah, there is a verse about cowards being laid down (afterlife) with women and children that were murdered in battle.  (They will have to listen to the screams and calls for justice until judgement day.)  This might also fullfill the islamic promise of 72 virgins: you have to get past the blood and the screams but they are yours!


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## High_Gravity (Mar 16, 2011)

logical4u said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > As an aside, how many fathers or heads of households would knowingly move their families into an area where violence of this nature is possible?  Surely there must be some sort of responsibility on the fathers part.  You don't see too many open Klan members moving into Compton do ya?
> ...



Yeah it sure as hell doesn't.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 16, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I have heard Davis say the same thing in a speech. It is accurate.

Sliming the source is a typical response from a propagandist loser.


----------



## logical4u (Mar 16, 2011)

blu said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > blu said:
> ...



I didn't catch the news report that discovered a weapons cache under the Jewish family's home.  Did I miss that?  Were there terrorists using the family members (school children) as human shields?

Are you just another leftist/communist/socialist/muslim extremist/homosexual activist that believes there is wrong, unless you agree with their ultimate goal and don't care how they get there?


----------



## Ropey (Mar 16, 2011)

xotoxi said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> ...



Read through this thread and you will have your answer xotoxi.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 16, 2011)

logical4u said:


> blu said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



Blu is faggot who like taking cock in all his holes every chance he gets.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 16, 2011)

How many people on this board cheered for Israel as it killed children by the hundreds in Gaza?


----------



## Ropey (Mar 16, 2011)

OP = *How Can Anyone Defend This...*



P F Tinmore said:


> How many people on this board cheered for Israel as it killed children by the hundreds in Gaza?



This is about the murder of a Jewish family and defending their deaths.

Is that what you do with this P F? Read the OP.



P F Tinmore said:


> How many people on this board cheered for Israel as it killed children by the hundreds in Gaza?



Then create a thread in comparison of the deaths. I will enter. Quit hijacking this one unless you are defending the deaths of this family.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> OP = *How Can Anyone Defend This...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, let's not discuss Israel who kills ten times as many children as the Palestinians.


----------



## Ropey (Mar 16, 2011)

Create a thread about that and many will enter it. Why are you unwilling to do so?

Or have you already and just want to add to it by hijacking the OP *AND *defending the murder of the family.


----------



## Dot Com (Mar 16, 2011)




----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Create a thread about that and many will enter it. Why are you unwilling to do so?
> 
> Or have you already and just want to add to it by hijacking the OP *AND *defending the murder of the family.



Why don't you go ahead and start one? You are the one pretending to be outraged over the killing of children.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 16, 2011)

I already started one.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/146423-remember-these-children.html

Post away.


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## logical4u (Mar 16, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> How many people on this board cheered for Israel as it killed children by the hundreds in Gaza?



Are you counting the children the terrorists killed to make the Israelis look bad?  Children that lived in their own community?


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## logical4u (Mar 16, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > OP = *How Can Anyone Defend This...*
> ...



Are you using the photoshopped pictures from extremists trying (slash that) that manipulated the press with doctored photos and counts?

Are you incapable of seeing that the murders of a family while sleeping is a cowardly act?


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## logical4u (Mar 16, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> I already started one.
> 
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/146423-remember-these-children.html
> 
> Post away.



Did you just say alah akbar??


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## signelect (Mar 16, 2011)

It is indefensible and was done by cowards in the dark of night.  If they hate the Jews that much go attach a road block where the Jews can fight back.  I am sick of the Hamas and others like them pretending to be fighting for freedom when in fact they just like to kill.  When the cowards are located they will get a double taste of retribution.  Couldn't happen to a nicer more deserving group.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 16, 2011)

signelect said:


> It is indefensible and was done by cowards in the dark of night.  If they hate the Jews that much go attach a road block where the Jews can fight back.  I am sick of the Hamas and others like them pretending to be fighting for freedom when in fact they just like to kill.  When the cowards are located they will get a double taste of retribution.  Couldn't happen to a nicer more deserving group.



Its not a fair fight they are looking for, this is exactly what the KKK used to do to blacks during the 50s and 60s, they would attack defenseless blacks with huge numbers and lynch them, out of pure hatred, very similar to what it is done here. Guys like that and the KKK are not interested in fair fights, they know where to find the IDF if thats what they want, its no secret where they are.


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## Jos (Mar 16, 2011)

signelect said:


> It is indefensible and was done by cowards in the dark of night.  If they hate the Jews that much go attach(sic) a road block where the Jews can fight back.  I am sick of the Hamas and others like them pretending to be fighting for freedom when in fact they just like to kill.  When the cowards are located they will get a double taste of retribution.  Couldn't happen to a nicer more deserving group.



*PAVLOVIAN RACISM*


> Why is it that Israel refuses to even investigate the possibility that the horrendous murder of an Israeli family of settlers might have been done by a NON Palestinian? It was reported yesterday on an Arab news site that the suspect in the killing was a disgruntled Asian worker.
> 
> Automatically putting the blame on an unknown Palestinian allows the continuation of the collective punishment of the entire mass of Palestinians living in the Occupied West Bank. It gives the government of Israel the excuse to expand its existing settlements and build new ones despite International Laws which have rendered those acts illegal.
> 
> The &#8216;victim card&#8217; has been the most successful tool used by the zionist state since its inception. It is not prepared to stop using that as long as it works, which it has been for the past 63 years. The true victims of the situation do not have a &#8216;card&#8217; to pull out or a Lobby to put their demands forward in the world arena. For Peace to become a reality this must change so that Palestine DOES become a member of the Community of Nations. There is no other viable solution.


PA-linked sites: 'Foreign worker behind Itamar killings'

read more
PAVLOVIAN RACISM « Desertpeace



Ropey said:


> I don't mind being called a liar and sometimes I do, but this was withholding the truth.
> 
> And if you don't see that. Grow another head.


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## logical4u (Mar 16, 2011)

Jos said:


> signelect said:
> 
> 
> > It is indefensible and was done by cowards in the dark of night.  If they hate the Jews that much go attach(sic) a road block where the Jews can fight back.  I am sick of the Hamas and others like them pretending to be fighting for freedom when in fact they just like to kill.  When the cowards are located they will get a double taste of retribution.  Couldn't happen to a nicer more deserving group.
> ...



You should know the quran encourages deceit and lies when islam is at war.  Islam is at war with all non-believers, especially if they have wealth (property, money, etc).  Islam can only survive in conquering mode, because once they take everything that everyone else has, the fighting begins among themselves and their "empires" implode.

I's sorry, did you too, say allah akbar????


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## Jos (Mar 16, 2011)

logical4u said:


> I's sorry, did you too, say allah akbar????


you cant even spell it right, right wimp as a punishment may God cut off half of your penis's pleasure, oh wait


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## Ropey (Mar 16, 2011)

politicalchic said:


> (reuters) - a jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a west bank settlement in what israeli officials said saturday was an attack by one or more palestinians who broke into their home.
> 
> Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the jewish religious settlement of itamar, near the palestinian city of nablus, for the killer or killers.
> 
> ...



^^op^^


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## Jroc (Mar 16, 2011)

This is a great piece from the Jpost. The author&#8217;s analogy is spot on. She describes what is happing in Europe and America and it pretty much describes the thinking of a lot of the scum on this thread, and sadly throughout this board. Yeah.. Some are out there all the time like P.F and Georgie, but most stay behind the scenes and just pop out every now and then.



*People are no longer ashamed to parade negative feelings toward Jews. *


Ruth Fogel was in the bathroom when the Palestinian terrorists pounced on her husband Udi and their three-month-old daughter Hadas, slitting their throats as they lay in bed on Friday night in their home in Itamar.

The terrorists stabbed Ruth to death as she came out of the bathroom. With both parents and the newborn dead, they moved on to the other children, going into a bedroom where Ruth and Udi&#8217;s sons Yoav (11) and Elad (four) were sleeping. They stabbed them through their hearts and slit their throats.



The murderers apparently missed another bedroom where the Fogels&#8217; other sons, eight-year-old Ro&#8217;i and two-year-old Yishai were asleep because they left them alive. The boys were found by their big sister, 12-year-old Tamar, when she returned home from a friend&#8217;s house two hours after her family was massacred.

Tamar found Yishai standing over his parents&#8217; bodies screaming for them to wake up.

In his eulogy at the family&#8217;s funeral on Sunday, former chief rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau told Tamar that her job from now on is to be her surviving brothers&#8217; mommy.

In a rare move, the Prime Minister&#8217;s Office released photos of the Fogel family&#8217;s blood-drenched corpses.

They are shown as they were found by security forces.

There was Hadas, dead on her parents&#8217; bed, next to her dead father Udi.

There was Elad, lying on a small throw rug wearing socks. His little hands were clenched into fists. What was a four-year-old to do against two grown men with knives? He clenched his fists. So did his big brother.

Maybe the Prime Minister&#8217;s Office thought the pictures would shock the world. Maybe Binyamin Netanyahu thought the massacre of three little children would move someone to rethink their hatred of Israel.

That was the theme of his address to the nation Saturday night.

Netanyahu directed most of his words to the hostile world. He spoke to the leaders who rush to condemn Israel at the UN Security Council every time we assert our right to this land by permitting Jews to build homes. He demanded that they condemn the murder of Jewish children with the same enthusiasm and speed.

He shouldn&#8217;t have bothered.

The government released the photos on Saturday night. Within hours, the social activism website My Israel posted a short video of the photographs on YouTube along with the names and ages of the victims.

Within two hours YouTube removed the video.

What was Netanyahu thinking? Didn&#8217;t he get the memo that photos of murdered Jewish children are unacceptable? If they&#8217;re published, someone might start thinking about the nature of Palestinian society.

Someone might consider the fact that in the Palestinian Authority, anti-Jewish propaganda is so ubiquitous and so murderous that killing the Fogel babies was an act of heroism. The baby killers knew that by murdering Udi, Ruth, Hadas, Yoav and Elad they would enter the pantheon of Palestinian heroes. They can expect to have a sports stadium or school in Ramallah or Hebron built for them by the Palestinian Authority and underwritten by American or European taxpayers.

And indeed, the murder of the Fogel children and their parents was greeted with jubilation in Gaza.

Carnivals were held in the streets as Hamas members handed out sweets.


Read more it kind of a long piece...
Our World: Three Jewish children


----------



## Foxfyre (Mar 16, 2011)

It is indeed a screwed up world when there is a segment of society that declares the most accidental death of a Palestinian mother and/or child as a 'murderous act' but excuses the intentional savage gruesome murder of innocent Jews as 'understandable.'


----------



## Bfgrn (Mar 16, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> It is indeed a screwed up world when there is a segment of society that declares the most accidental death of a Palestinian mother and/or child as a 'murderous act' but excuses the intentional savage gruesome murder of innocent Jews as 'understandable.'



The only people in that region who are on the right side, are on the side of peaceful COexistence.


----------



## spectrumc01 (Mar 16, 2011)

Dot Com said:


>



Thats great


----------



## LibocalypseNow (Mar 16, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> Dot Com said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



I know it's extreme but the World really would be much quieter & peaceful if there were less Arab loons around. Arabs have always been irrational & blood-thirsty. They only bring death & misery everywhere they go in the World. Palestinians danced in the streets celebrating 911 too. Nothing surprises me when it comes to loony Arabs. It is sad but it is what it is.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 16, 2011)

Bfgrn said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > It is indeed a screwed up world when there is a segment of society that declares the most accidental death of a Palestinian mother and/or child as a 'murderous act' but excuses the intentional savage gruesome murder of innocent Jews as 'understandable.'
> ...



Ali Abunimah and Ghada Karmi are two on the Palestinian side. Who is on the Israeli side?


----------



## spectrumc01 (Mar 16, 2011)

logical4u said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > As an aside, how many fathers or heads of households would knowingly move their families into an area where violence of this nature is possible?  Surely there must be some sort of responsibility on the fathers part.  You don't see too many open Klan members moving into Compton do ya?
> ...



What fantasy land do you live in?  You can buy, and live in any house you want and expect to live in it, happily ever after.  Now this is the reality, what is the crime rate in you area?  don't you look at the odds of violence happening to you or your family?  Would you move your family into down town Detroit or Flint the fluctuationg murder capitals of the world?  What would be a safe % for you to live there 10-20 %, 30-40%, 50-60% ? what do you suppose the odds were for this family, a Jewish family moving to where they did?


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## LibocalypseNow (Mar 16, 2011)

The Palestinians danced in the streets celebrating 911. What more needs to be said about them?


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## Ropey (Mar 16, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > Dot Com said:
> ...



Tens of millions of people gone in a single strike?

Are you people serious?

My son is right. He's a Canadian DART (Disaster Assistance Response Team) and is involved in DVI (Disaster Victim Identification). He will be leaving Friday as a relief squad. 

I told him about this thread. He asked me why I am arguing when I could be doing something good instead of arguing with people who see violence as a means to a political end. 

I have no answer, so I am putting some of this time that I am using to argue to actually do something.

Good day and night all.


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## LibocalypseNow (Mar 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > spectrumc01 said:
> ...



I hear ya. I don't think anyone meant it literally though. I think some are just blowing off a little steam. The Palestinians did dance in the streets celebrating 911. Many Americans will never forget or forgive them for that abhorrent behavior. And now this. Obviously no one is going to wipe the entire Middle East out though. You may be taking things too seriously and literally. Good day to you too Sir.


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## spectrumc01 (Mar 16, 2011)

Ropey said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > spectrumc01 said:
> ...



Good night, and don't take this thread so seriously.  These are only opinions, and I've enjoyed yours, they made me think.  Exercise for the mind.


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## blu (Mar 17, 2011)

LibocalypseNow said:


> The Palestinians danced in the streets celebrating 911. What more needs to be said about them?



really? all of them?

every post you make contains at least one fallacy. what more needs to be said about you?


----------



## HUGGY (Mar 17, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> 
> Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the Jewish religious settlement of Itamar, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, for the killer or killers.
> 
> ...



So....  If someone stole your home or you were forced out against your will I guess you would send the new residents(squatters) a welcome basket?  You are a lot nicer than I am.  If someone stole my property I could see taking revenge.  I don't know about stabbing everybody but ya there would be some measure of consequence handed out.


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## Jroc (Mar 17, 2011)

HUGGY said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> ...



More scum...I didn't count you amongst them, even though I dont care for you much, But thanks for outing yourself, and taking time to defend the slaughter of little children in their beds.... Congrats! You must be proud.


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## blu (Mar 17, 2011)

Jroc said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



nice deflection


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## HUGGY (Mar 17, 2011)

Jroc said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Go fuck yourself.  I didn't put that family in harms way to take advantage of the theft perpetrated on the original owners of the land and homes there.  It is too bad rats and vermin breed in places that are not safe for their families.  I would never even consider putting my family in a situation like that.  I guess greed is a strong motivator for some people and their supporters.  Did I say GO FUCK YOURSELF?  I just wanted to make that point clearly.  Next....


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2011)

Israel has never believed that there should be consequences for its actions.


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## Ropey (Mar 17, 2011)

HUGGY said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



How Can Anyone Defend This...

and Huggy shows how one can defend these murders...


----------



## logical4u (Mar 17, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > spectrumc01 said:
> ...



In the most crime ridden areas in this country, please give examples where this kind of horror is celebrated by the crimminals' "people"/"religion" ......                               .....
.......                                 ........                             .......                      ..... 
Still can't think of ONE?  ......


----------



## logical4u (Mar 17, 2011)

blu said:


> LibocalypseNow said:
> 
> 
> > The Palestinians danced in the streets celebrating 911. What more needs to be said about them?
> ...



I did not see "all" in his statement.  Are you trying to attack the messenger because you have been exposed as supporting this type of violence?


----------



## logical4u (Mar 17, 2011)

Ropey said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



It is because "they" want to select to who the land belongs.  If you point out that Jews owned property there before 1948, they dismiss it and declare the Arabs/Palastinians were the original owners.  If you ask them how the muslim Arabs/Palastinians "acquired" the land, they don't want to admit that mulsims raped, plundered, pillaged and murdered to "acquire" most of the land in the ME.  If you mention that Jews lived there since there were Pharohs, they will tell you that is "ancient history" and doesn't count.  When I asked for a place where Jews were welcomed and accepted (advertised on a national level), there was total silence.  I am so sorry Ropey, it seems many of those that claim to be "tolerant" (of all lifestyles, foreign gods and cultures), have absolutely no tolerance for Christians or Jews.  The will eat the fruit of their labor and steal what was produced, but tolerate speech from these two groups, never.


----------



## signelect (Mar 17, 2011)

What does conservative have to do with this action.  Of course we love property rights, that has nothing to do with blatant murder,  you are an idiot and worse than that you are stupid.


----------



## spectrumc01 (Mar 17, 2011)

logical4u said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > logical4u said:
> ...



Look in any prison in the US.  Ask them what their tattoo's mean.  These people's lives are a giant celebration of violence.  Look at the tit for tat revenge killings among the gangs in this country.  Two blocks behind me a lady had her head cut off by her husband, on thier front porch, when I was a kid. 

    At some point you have to decide how much of a risk you want to put your family in.  He must have thought, "there is no other place on the face of this planet, this hostile toword Israeli's.  This is where I will raise my family."  how was that a good idea?  What % were you willing to live with?


----------



## AVG-JOE (Mar 17, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> 
> Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the Jewish religious settlement of Itamar, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, for the killer or killers.
> 
> ...



Does it HAVE to be a "Jewish" family brutally murdered by one or more "Palestinians"?

The sooner we start looking at it as a "Family" brutally murdered by one or more assholes, and the cops are leaving no stone unturned looking for the fuckers, the sooner our kids will begin their reach for the stars.


----------



## Foxfyre (Mar 17, 2011)

AVG-JOE said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> ...



I can agree with this 100%.

However, this particular case was Palestinians who brutally murdered a Jewish family.  And the thrust of the OP and thread in general is that had it been a Jew who brutally murdered a Palestinian family in that manner, NONE of us, including our Jewish friends among us, would have any problem condemning the act and one or ones who committed it.

But in our wingnut, ideologically corrupted, and anti-semitic world these days, too many here simply can't bring themselves to call the murder(s) the scum that he or they are because they are Palestinian and they have a perceived gripe against the Jews.  It is just too politically incorrect to call them the vile and viscious refuse that they are.

It's absolutely nuts.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2011)

HUGGY said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



Oh you made your point very clear the fact that you could not hold back your distain for Jews in general "Rats and vermin" this is indeed a useful thread for me. Scum.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2011)

logical4u said:


> It is because "they" want to select to who the land belongs.  If you point out that Jews owned property there before 1948, they dismiss it and declare the Arabs/Palastinians were the original owners.  If you ask them how the muslim Arabs/Palastinians "acquired" the land, they don't want to admit that mulsims raped, plundered, pillaged and murdered to "acquire" most of the land in the ME.  If you mention that Jews lived there since there were Pharohs, they will tell you that is "ancient history" and doesn't count.  When I asked for a place where Jews were welcomed and accepted (advertised on a national level), there was total silence.  I am so sorry Ropey, it seems many of those that claim to be "tolerant" (of all lifestyles, foreign gods and cultures), have absolutely no tolerance for Christians or Jews.  The will eat the fruit of their labor and steal what was produced, but tolerate speech from these two groups, never.



You are missing the fact that its not about the Arabs, it's not about land, it is about, what it has always been about hatred of the Jews. These same people would hate us if there were no Jews in the mid-east, they'll blame Jews for the financial mess, the wars, the this.. The that. It's just irrational, illogical hate thats it. If you seek to understand these types of people you are wasting your time. It is good to know who they are though.


----------



## HUGGY (Mar 17, 2011)

Jroc said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



The Jews put their own children and wives and mothers and fathers onto cattle cars.  Your pussy whining about children comes up short.  Jews are cowards...always have been...always will be.  They are REAL tough when it comes to attacking the defenseless.  Take your Israeli flag and shove it up your punk ass.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2011)

HUGGY said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



As I said.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 17, 2011)

*11-year-old brutally murdered by jihadists: "Love everyone"*








That I be gracious and merciful in the eyes of all who see me." And the death-loving barbarians who loudly insist that their bloodthirsty god is gracious and merciful slaughtered him in his bed.

"11-Year-Old Yoav's Legacy: 'Love Everyone,'" by Chana Ya'ar for Israel National News, March 16 (thanks to Amber):

First responders who rushed into the blood-drenched bedroom of 11-year-old Yoav Fogel last Friday night were confronted with a sight that nearly stopped them in their tracks. 
A colorful little wooden plaque hung above the slain young boy's bed, proclaiming his love for his people and a prayer for peace between all.[...]

May it be Your will, L-rd G-d and G-d of our forefathers,

That I love every one of Israel as myself, and

To graciously perform the positive commandment of loving your neighbor as yourself.[...]

11-year-old brutally murdered by jihadists: "Love everyone" - Jihad Watch


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 17, 2011)

An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.

The soldier, who has only been identified as "Captain R", was charged with relatively minor offences for the killing of Iman al-Hams who was shot 17 times as she ventured near an Israeli army post near Rafah refugee camp in Gaza a year ago.

Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl | World news | The Guardian


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## hipeter924 (Mar 18, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.
> 
> The soldier, who has only been identified as "Captain R", was charged with relatively minor offences for the killing of Iman al-Hams who was shot 17 times as she ventured near an Israeli army post near Rafah refugee camp in Gaza a year ago.
> 
> Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl | World news | The Guardian


Pallywood again?


----------



## PoliticalChic (Mar 19, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.
> 
> The soldier, who has only been identified as "Captain R", was charged with relatively minor offences for the killing of Iman al-Hams who was shot 17 times as she ventured near an Israeli army post near Rafah refugee camp in Gaza a year ago.
> 
> Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl | World news | The Guardian



Did you notice that "Captain R" was a Muslim?


----------



## PoliticalChic (Mar 19, 2011)

Hamas fires dozens of mortars at Israel 

By IAN DEITCH 
Associated Press






JERUSALEM (AP) -- Palestinian militants in Gaza fired more than 50 mortar shells into Israel on Saturday, the heaviest barrage in two years, Israeli officials said, raising the prospect of a new Mideast flareup.

Also Saturday, Hamas police beat reporters and news photographers covering a rally in Gaza City, drawing a stiff condemnation from the reporters' association.
News from The Associated Press


Another day, another......


----------



## Foxfyre (Mar 19, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> Hamas fires dozens of mortars at Israel
> 
> By IAN DEITCH
> Associated Press
> ...




I posted this over on my WWIII? thread just now, too.

It is almost surely because they saw opportunity with most of the world and media attention focused on Lybia today.


----------



## Jroc (Mar 19, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.
> ...



That&#8217;s crazy...All this crap P.T. puts up I don't even read half of it...So he wasn't a Jew ... That&#8217;s interesting.. Regardless, I wouldn't put it past the girls family putting her up to going in this restricted area, they kill girls that age for being sexually assaulted by their brothers. In their view it would be better for her to die this way.... Good propaganda. The differance is, Jewish children's restricted areas are their Bedrooms.


----------



## logical4u (Mar 21, 2011)

spectrumc01 said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > spectrumc01 said:
> ...



"Individual crimminals" are not a community or a religion.  You have not given an example of where a crimminal's actions are "celebrated" by the community, people, religion.
Ask people where they would "like" to live, and then, ask them where they "really live".  You will get two different answers.  One is under the best possible circumstances.  The other is in the harsh reality of economics.  You get the most you can for your money.  This family was killed, simply because "they were".  There is no other reason.  There are excuses that you and others want to pretend are justifiable, but in the end are just excuses.  If this was done to one of your extended families, would you feel the same.  Violence for the sake of violence.  Hatred for the sake of EVIL.  Murder committed because they were alive.  This is not about protection, it is not about territory; it is about the support of evil.  Apparently, you think it is important to support evil.


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## logical4u (Mar 21, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.
> 
> The soldier, who has only been identified as "Captain R", was charged with relatively minor offences for the killing of Iman al-Hams who was shot 17 times as she ventured near an Israeli army post near Rafah refugee camp in Gaza a year ago.
> 
> Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl | World news | The Guardian



Our guys had to do the same thing in Vietnam.  The enemy has no problem with wiring little children with bombs ....  this is with full knowledge the bombs will kill the children.  Funny, how those that support the very people that kill childrem as suicide bombers and even murder children for photo ops, will find self-defense so .... wrong.  Keep your evil, I want no part of it.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.
> ...



Source? He is a Druze. Muslims don't serve in the IDF.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

logical4u said:


> Our guys had to do the same thing in Vietnam.  The enemy has no problem with wiring little children with bombs ....  this is with full knowledge the bombs will kill the children.  Funny, how those that support the very people that kill childrem as suicide bombers and even murder children for photo ops, will find self-defense so .... wrong.  Keep your evil, I want no part of it.



Where was the bomb?


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

Noted: murdering a child is atrocious if the child is Jewish, but necessary or at least justifiable if the child is a Muslim. The Chosen are more equal than others.


----------



## logical4u (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > Our guys had to do the same thing in Vietnam.  The enemy has no problem with wiring little children with bombs ....  this is with full knowledge the bombs will kill the children.  Funny, how those that support the very people that kill childrem as suicide bombers and even murder children for photo ops, will find self-defense so .... wrong.  Keep your evil, I want no part of it.
> ...



There was the possibility of a bomb.  It had been done before and it will be done again.  You don't search people when they are charging at a check point.  You stop them, unless they are Jewish, then you murder them in their own homes with NO provocation.


----------



## logical4u (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> Noted: murdering a child is atrocious if the child is Jewish, but necessary or at least justifiable if the child is a Muslim. The Chosen are more equal than others.



Was the child in her bed?  Or, was she charging a check point like she had a bomb strapped to her?


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> Noted: murdering a child is atrocious if the child is Jewish, but necessary or at least justifiable if the child is a Muslim. The Chosen are more equal than others.



Who said that? Me, I could care less if the child is a martian, what happened was terrible and atrocious.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

logical4u said:


> There was the possibility of a bomb.  It had been done before and it will be done again.



There was no bomb when she was shot the first time. When she attempted to drag herself to safety after being fired upon, there was still no bomb. When the Zionist ape walked up to her and emptied the rest of his magazine into her body at point blank range, she had no bomb. And nobody ever suspected her of having a bomb or of doing anything apart from being a child.



> But the tape recording of the radio conversation between soldiers at the scene reveals that, from the beginning, she was identified as a child and *at no point was a bomb spoken about nor was she described as a threat. Iman was also at least 100 yards from any soldier.*
> 
> Instead, the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a "girl of about 10" who was "scared to death".
> 
> ...





logical4u said:


> You don't search people when they are charging at a check point.  You stop them, unless they are Jewish, then you murder them in their own homes with NO provocation.


Me? I have no blood on my hands and I would never dream of spewing witless justifications for the murder of any child. 

I can only imagine how threatening Iman must have looked as she 'charged' toward (read: away from) those poor Zionists with her school uniform and backpack. Allah yarhamuha.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Who said that? Me, I could care less if the child is a martian,



Your thanks belie this claim.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Who said that? Me, I could care less if the child is a martian,
> ...



What post are you refering to?


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

logical4u said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Noted: murdering a child is atrocious if the child is Jewish, but necessary or at least justifiable if the child is a Muslim. The Chosen are more equal than others.
> ...



Also noted: new facts can be invented if the old ones make Zionists appear to be at fault.


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## logical4u (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > There was the possibility of a bomb.  It had been done before and it will be done again.
> ...



Yet we have heard no condemnations from you concerning the murders of the Jewish family.

I was pointing out that "soldiers" have a different mindset.  The death of a child, including children that "people" wire with bombs, are tragic.  "That child" was not murdered in her bed, threatening no one.  She was killed by a soldier, that was in a soldier's mindset.  It was a tragedy.  Will you say the same for the murdered family?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



That is false.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...stian-arab-volunteers-in-idf-growing-1.145565


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## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

Number of Muslim, Christian Arab volunteers in IDF growing 



> New figures made available by the Israel Defense Forces show the number of Muslim and Christian Arab Israeli volunteers in the army is growing.
> 
> The deaths of five soldiers from the IDF's Desert Reconnaissance Unit (the so-called Bedouin unit) in an attack on an army outpost near Rafah earlier this month drew public attention to the service of Bedouin in the IDF.
> 
> ...



Number of Muslim, Christian Arab volunteers in IDF growing - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


----------



## PoliticalChic (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...





"The Druze comprise another sect which is not widely regarded as being "truly" Islam by many Muslims. This group *diverged from mainstream Islam *in the eleventh century ..."
Islam and Muslims: Druze


Why the obfuscation?
Is there some additional contumely for Muslims, or that it is exculpatory for Israelis and/or Jews?


----------



## PoliticalChic (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Number of Muslim, Christian Arab volunteers in IDF growing
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like this post better than mine...
I tried to give a rep, but it wouldn't allow.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



The court said that we are Israelis and we approve of this conduct.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Huh?


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

There are Arabs and Muslims in Israel's armed forces just like there are Arabs and Muslims in America's Military, case closed. Next.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Shooting a 13 year old girl 17 times.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

logical4u said:


> Yet we have heard no condemnations from you concerning the murders of the Jewish family.


Then let them be heard. The perpetrators should stand trial for murdering children and face execution if the victims' family opts not to grant them pardon. I would carry out the sentence myself if someone charged me with that duty. 



logical4u said:


> I was pointing out that "soldiers" have a different mindset.


I don't care. 



logical4u said:


> The death of a child, including children that "people" wire with bombs, are tragic.  "That child" was not murdered in her bed, threatening no one.  She was killed by a soldier, that was in a soldier's mindset.  It was a tragedy.


She was killed by an ape whose crimes were excused by other apes. A "soldier's mindset" doesn't include a propensity for sadism. There is no excuse. 



logical4u said:


> Will you say the same for the murdered family?


Without a second thought. I try to ensure that my outrage is never selective.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The court did not say Israelis approve of that.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



The court let him walk, didn't it?


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The court let OJ walk too, doesn't mean the courts in LA approve of murder.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



Let me be clear. A 'Muslim' who serves willingly in the IDF is an apostate. Druze are something else, non-Muslims who reject the tenets of our religion in favor of belief in things like reincarnation and the divinity of some Fatimid caliph.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Really? what about Muslims who serve in the US Armed Forces? Not all those Muslims in the IDF are Druze.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



This was a military (read kangaroo) court. It found nothing wrong in emptying an M16 into a 13 year old girl. Well, a Palestinian girl.

Nice deflection, though.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



This thread is about a Jewish family who was murdered in their beds, it is YOU deflecting by bringing this up in this thread. You have yet to show 1 word of sympathy for this poor family.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Israel has killed 1500 children in the last ten years and not one peep from you.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Not one peep from you on this heinous act against this poor Jewish family.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Really? what about Muslims who serve in the US Armed Forces?


Transgressors.



High_Gravity said:


> Not all those Muslims in the IDF are Druze.


No Muslims in the IDF are Druze because there are no Muslims in the IDF and the Druze aren't Muslims. There are Druze in the IDF and, apparently, a smattering of apostates.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Really? what about Muslims who serve in the US Armed Forces?
> ...



I posted an article about Muslims in the IDF, are you saying that is a lie?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



I have already condemned this act and I will again.

Your turn to step up to the plate.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



A life is a life to me, one is not greater than the other. The killing of the 13 year old girl was a terrible tragedy.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



...Read my posts. A Muslim apostatizes the second he willfully decides to fight alongside the forces of a hostile entity, such as Israel. The people described in your article are apostates and enemies of the religion they forsook.


----------



## GHook93 (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Really? what about Muslims who serve in the US Armed Forces?
> ...



That is a lie. Druze like jews must serve in the IDF, but Muslims can enlist and many Bedouins do. In fact they are some of the IDFs best trackers! True the number is small, but that is because most Israeli Arabs are ungrateful Muslims like you are to America!



> Number of Muslim, Christian Arab volunteers in IDF growing - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
> New figures made available by the Israel Defense Forces show the number of Muslim and Christian Arab Israeli volunteers in the army is growing.
> 
> The deaths of five soldiers from the IDF's Desert Reconnaissance Unit (the so-called Bedouin unit) in an attack on an army outpost near Rafah earlier this month drew public attention to the service of Bedouin in the IDF.
> ...


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> That is a lie. Druze like jews must serve in the IDF, but Muslims can enlist and many Bedouins do. In fact they are some of the IDFs best trackers! True the number is small, but that is because most Israeli Arabs are ungrateful Muslims like you are to America!



See above.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



One down, 1499 to go.


----------



## logical4u (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > Yet we have heard no condemnations from you concerning the murders of the Jewish family.
> ...



Yet, "you" did not say, and managed to call Jews, apes in the same post.  Is this your idea of showing "consideration"?


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

logical4u said:


> Yet, "you" did not say,


Are you having trouble reading?



logical4u said:


> and managed to call Jews, apes in the same post.


The murderer was actually Druze. Yes, he and the individuals who cleared his name are all apes. Any person who murders or child or commits some similarly heinous offense is an ape. Feel free to misrepresent my statements and pretend as if I extended that insult to all Jews, though; I'm past the point where that sort of petty libel bothers me. 



logical4u said:


> Is this your idea of showing "consideration"?


Shall I follow your example and attempt to justify the murder by lying about the circumstances surrounding it? Perhaps that would be more considerate.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Don't play me, this is a thread about a Jewish family being butchered, stop trying to deflect from that.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



These are Muslims living in Israel who chose to volunteer and fight for their country, no different than Muslims who choose to volunteer for the service in the US, England, France etc.


----------



## Foxfyre (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Also the Arab Muslims in the IDF are there voluntarily.  Israeli law that does require some compulsory military service does not include Arab citizens in that law as they wisely understood that being in the military could require some Arabs to be in combat against friends, neighbors, family.  It's tough enough for some to have to do violence to people who look like them.   So any Arabs in the Israeli military or police forces are there because their loyalty to country and community overrides loyalty to a race or a religion or any other such criteria.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 21, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Indeed, I think these men deserve to be saluted, not pissed on.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



And they all err. A Muslim's only nationality is his belief.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



They deserve death and what follows. Any person complicit in the oppression of people he claims are his coreligionists is a wretched, miserable creature who lives and dies in a state of abject ignominy.


----------



## Foxfyre (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



I imagine they have rejected such a doctrine Kalam.  I am going to guess--in fact I've heard testimony from one that concurs with my opinion--that all or most have discovered that the Jew is not their enemy, is not an abomination, and treats them with the utmost deference, courtesy, and consideration when such is reciprocated.  There are those who reject the blood lust doctrine of Jihad and have chosen a more enlightened path.  They still belong to Allah, but they now understand a better way.


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## Jroc (Mar 21, 2011)

Its a good thing we've got Kalam on the board to define for us who is and is not a muslim. I guess they are only real muslims if they agree with him and hate Jews. He never answered the question of muslim fighting for the U.S. in the Iraq and Afghanistan. I guess they are not real muslims either, they are traitors in his warped mind


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## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> I imagine they have rejected such a doctrine Kalam.  I am going to guess--in fact I've heard testimony from one that concurs with my opinion--that all or most have discovered that the Jew is not their enemy, is not an abomination, and treats them with the utmost deference, courtesy, and consideration when such is reciprocated.


Are you under the impression that I hate Jews or consider them to be less than human? No, my position isn't merely a reversal of Zionist racism. I wouldn't see them herded into open air prisons, strangled with dehumanizing blockades, decimated with cluster munitions, or punished with any of the many injuries "Israel" has inflicted on the Muslims of Palestine over the past 60 years. I subscribe to the radical belief that no segment of the region's population should be forced to suffer through any of that sort of depravity. But I'm told that this is anti-Semitic since anything short of eternal Jewish supremacism will result in them being driven into the sea.



Foxfyre said:


> There are those who reject the blood lust doctrine of Jihad


Associating 'blood lust' with jihad makes it clear that the concept eludes you, but no matter. 



Foxfyre said:


> and have chosen a more enlightened path.  They still belong to Allah, but they now understand a better way.





Do they now?

I suppose it's appropriate that support for brutal collective punishment and the seizure of lebensraum are cornerstones of "enlightenment" according to the Zionist understanding. 'Audhu billah min dhalik.


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## Kalam (Mar 21, 2011)

Jroc said:


> Its a good thing we've got Kalam on the board to define for us who is and is not a muslim. I guess they are only real muslims if they agree with him and hate Jews. He never answered the question of muslim fighting for the U.S. in the Iraq and Afghanistan. I guess they are not real muslims either, they are traitors in his warped mind



You sure do want me to hate Jews. I don't, though; sorry. 

Any Muslim who fights for a cause other than God's is condemned to Hell. In the case of so-called Muslims who turn against their own community, we've been given a clear precedent:

_Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? God hath upset them for their deeds. Would ye guide those whom God hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom God hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way. They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing: But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and take no friends or helpers from their ranks; Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty, or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If God had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and send you peace, then God Hath opened no way for you._ - 4:88-90​


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## Foxfyre (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > I imagine they have rejected such a doctrine Kalam.  I am going to guess--in fact I've heard testimony from one that concurs with my opinion--that all or most have discovered that the Jew is not their enemy, is not an abomination, and treats them with the utmost deference, courtesy, and consideration when such is reciprocated.
> ...



And some would take the view that the Jews have done only what was necessary to keep the blood lusting jihadists from kidnapping, torturing, beheading or otherwise killing people, to keep them from firing rockets into residential neighborhoods hoping to hurt, maim, or kill ANYBODY, and to keep them from blowing themselves up on busses crowded with school children or in crowded markets.

At such time as the Palestinians, including their leadership, denounce and reject such policy and do what they reasonably can do to stop it from happening, and then the Israelis are not good neighbors to the Palestinians?  Then I will have issues with the Israelis.  Until then I cannot fault them for their policies.

Selective history is a really bad teacher for instructing national policies, and I think far too many pro-Palestinians have been provided only selective history that all the problem is the Jews and the Palestinians are innocent and maltreated victims.

And when you write about those Muslims who choose to live peacefully with the Israelis as full responsible Israeli citizens:


> They deserve death and what follows. Any person complicit in the oppression of people he claims are his coreligionists is a wretched, miserable creature who lives and dies in a state of abject ignominy.


perhaps you can understand that you don't give Israel much incentive to trust that you would choose to live peacefully with them.  Sound pretty much like blood lust to me.


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## Jroc (Mar 21, 2011)

Kalam said:


> You sure do want me to hate Jews. I don't, though; sorry.



Humm.. You hate Zionists, you hate Israel, and you hate Jews. Whether you want to admit it or not is up to you. The Jews in Israel are in the way of your "Caliphate", you would see them all slaughtered to achieve this goal. The slaughter of those children means nothing, as they are part of that Zionist movement. You are no different then the animals that killed those babies. Its pretty clear to me 



> Any Muslim who fights for a cause other than God's is condemned to Hell. In the case of so-called Muslims who turn against their own community, we've been given a clear precedent:



Really? Who is it that determines that? You can't have what you want because your caliphate is not possible in the modern age. it is a pipe dream, who determines what is the proper interpretation of islamic law? Men Whomever interprets islamic law are the rulers. They are men. what you want cannot exist...Only in your own mind.


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## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> And some would take the view that the Jews have done only what was necessary to keep the blood lusting jihadists from kidnapping, torturing, beheading or otherwise killing people, to keep them from firing rockets into residential neighborhoods hoping to hurt, maim, or kill ANYBODY, and to keep them from blowing themselves up on busses crowded with school children or in crowded markets.


Apparently, the poor Zionists are only able to save themselves from certain destruction by doing every single thing you listed short of self-detonation. 



Foxfyre said:


> At such time as the Palestinians, including their leadership, denounce and reject such policy and do what they reasonably can do to stop it from happening, and then the Israelis are not good neighbors to the Palestinians?  Then I will have issues with the Israelis.  Until then I cannot fault them for their policies.


Have you ever bothered to turn a critical eye toward those policies? You may find it beneficial to begin by taking a glance at the history and nature of the Gaza Strip blockade. 



Foxfyre said:


> Selective history is a really bad teacher for instructing national policies, and I think far too many pro-Palestinians have been provided only selective history that all the problem is the Jews and the Palestinians are innocent and maltreated victims.



Studying the region's history independently and within a formal academic setting has exposed me to a fairly diverse body of analysis. I wouldn't involve myself in discussions like this if I spoke from a position of ignorance or flawed understanding -- If you feel that I'm guilty of doing this, I invite you to demonstrate that and I look forward to your criticism.



Foxfyre said:


> And when you write about those Muslims who choose to live peacefully with the Israelis as full responsible Israeli citizens:


When 'living peacefully' entails complicity in the oppression or destruction of one's own people, it ceases to be an option for anyone with a trace of honor.



Foxfyre said:


> perhaps you can understand that you don't give Israel much incentive to trust that you would choose to live peacefully with them.


I only desire peace with the people; the state is irredeemably oppressive by virtue of its very structure and will have to be destroyed.



Foxfyre said:


> Sound pretty much like blood lust to me.


A person who kills because he lusts for blood or because he's angry or for the sake of vengeance or fame or a country -- he becomes an inhabitant of the Fire. A life can only be extinguished for the sake of God.


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## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

Jroc said:


> Humm.. You hate Zionists, you hate Israel, and you hate Jews. Whether you want to admit it or not is up to you. The Jews in Israel are in the way of your "Caliphate", you would see them all slaughtered to achieve this goal. The slaughter of those children means nothing, as they are part of that Zionist movement. You are no different then the animals that killed those babies. *Its pretty clear to me*


It must be, as you've taken it upon yourself to tell me what I think in spite of what I've said to the contrary. Good day.


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## HUGGY (Mar 22, 2011)

Ah...ya..."The Chosen People".  What a crock Jroc.  The self appointed special ones.  HOW CONVENIENT!  It must be a real drag when someone doesn't buy into your bullshit and sees you for what you really are.  When your god is exposed as an impostor and melts away and all you have left is what you are doing here and now and have done then and there what are you really?  What are you when the excuses run thin?  Must be a bitch when you have to stand on the shaky truth.  

Does it ever occur to you that if what you believe is not true that you have fucked up a large part of the world for NOTHING? 

Does it ever occur to you that if you stopped thinking you are chosen and "special" and actually had to get along with the rest of the people on the planet on your merits and not some mythical bullshit that the world would be a better place?

Does it ever occur to you that personal responsibility and your true standing among men starts with YOU?  

I don't really hate Jews.  I have had many good Jewish friends.  As a people you have imposed your supposed "special" status on the world long enough.  It is high time you intellectually grow up and do your part to help make the world more livable for your neighbors as well as yourselves.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Its a good thing we've got Kalam on the board to define for us who is and is not a muslim. I guess they are only real muslims if they agree with him and hate Jews. He never answered the question of muslim fighting for the U.S. in the Iraq and Afghanistan. I guess they are not real muslims either, they are traitors in his warped mind
> ...



How do we know what gods cause is though? for all we know the guys fighting for Hamas and the Taliban are going to burn in hell.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



These Muslims live in Israel and most have family there, it makes sense for them to want to defend it because they have as much stake in it as the Jews do. Black people enlisted and fought in every American war even when they were treated as second class citizens for the same reason.


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## Jroc (Mar 22, 2011)

HUGGY said:


> Ah...ya..."The Chosen People".  What a crock Jroc.  The self appointed special ones.  HOW CONVENIENT!  It must be a real drag when someone doesn't buy into your bullshit and sees you for what you really are.  When your god is exposed as an impostor and melts away and all you have left is what you are doing here and now and have done then and there what are you really?  What are you when the excuses run thin?  Must be a bitch when you have to stand on the shaky truth.
> 
> Does it ever occur to you that if what you believe is not true that you have fucked up a large part of the world for NOTHING?
> 
> ...



"The Chosen People" I don't believe I've ever used that phrase, and this thread is about the slaughter of a family in their beds. You attempt to defend that, you're position is clear. You have "many good Jewish friends." congradulations..Seems I hear a lot of that from racists..."I have many black friends" just let them stay in their own nieborhood right? As I said you are clear with you're hate, we know were you stand.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> > And some would take the view that the Jews have done only what was necessary to keep the blood lusting jihadists from kidnapping, torturing, beheading or otherwise killing people, to keep them from firing rockets into residential neighborhoods hoping to hurt, maim, or kill ANYBODY, and to keep them from blowing themselves up on busses crowded with school children or in crowded markets.
> ...



Well thank you Kalam.  You have in a short time here confirmed every belief that honorable people hold regarding Islamofacist terrorist thugs and those who condone what they do.  How sad it must be to worship a deity who would require such behavior.  How sad that you are not allowed to have love and concern for people who do not share your beliefs and doctrine.  How sad that you are not allowed to accept love and compassion that is yours to have should you choose to receive it.   You have my pity.

It does explain perhaps why Islam has produced so little for the general benefit of humankind for many generations now while Judaism and Christianity have produced so much.

Judaism and Christianity both know the great IAM, the God who directs their hearts and leads them in a path of justice and compassion even for those who believe differently.  We of course differ a bit on how God is carrying out his plan, but that's okay.  God is wise enough and big enough to work out those differences too.

I think the Allah who requires such cruelty and brutality does not know the God of the Jew and Christian.  If he did, and could make peace, a great many of the problems of the world would immediately cease to exist.


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## logical4u (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > Yet, "you" did not say,
> ...



You did not "condemn" the man or men that killed the Jewish family.  You did go to great lengths to insult the soldier and all (Jews or those you regard as 'no longer faithful to islam') involved with that trial (with reason).  You did not criticize those that "celebrated" the brutal slaughter of this family in the streets of their community.  I am not having trouble reading.  What you leave out of your comments is far more telling than what you "actually" post.

How did I lie?  I stated that soldiers are obligated to protect their 'area'.  If someone charges (or as you have corrected my understanding, is running away from) a military position (possibly after setting or intending to bomb), it is the nature to shoot first and find out later.  That shooting was wrong.  It was understandable.
Now, explain how those man/men that broke into someone's home were acting in defense of their position.


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## logical4u (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



So all of the islamic country leaders and many, many of their clerics and imams are "complicit in the oppression of people he claims are his coreligionists" are "wretched, miserable creature"(s) "who lives and dies in a state of abject ignominy"?  Why don't those "believers" do the same thing to them that they would do to a muslim that was "unarmed or defenseless" accused of 'similar' crimes?  Why do the muslim 'citizens' celebrate and support leaders that oppress "people he claims are his coreligionists"?  Conflicting actions Kalam.


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## Ropey (Mar 22, 2011)

HUGGY said:


> Go fuck yourself. It is too bad rats and vermin breed in places that are not safe for their families





HUGGY said:


> The self appointed special ones.





HUGGY said:


> TI don't really hate Jews.  I have had many good Jewish friends.



Yes, you like rats and vermin, don't you?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Some Palestinians living in Israel consider themselves citizens.

Other Palestinians believe they are living in Israeli occupied Palestine.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2011)

P F Tinmore said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Thats funny considering Palestine doesn't exist.


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## Jos (Mar 22, 2011)

IDF tank fire kills four family members



> Israel Defense Forces tank fire struck a home in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday killing four Palestinians from the same family and wounding another 13, Gaza hospital officials said


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...-members-gaza-hospital-officials-say-1.351154
They don't put a name to the Dead


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## GHook93 (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> You sure do want me to hate Jews. I don't, though; sorry.


LOL you do. I know you will try to PC thing and say you hate Zionist, but you really mean Jews! Don't mask it Kalam your Muslim you can get a way with openly hating Jews!


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## HUGGY (Mar 22, 2011)

Jroc said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Ah...ya..."The Chosen People".  What a crock Jroc.  The self appointed special ones.  HOW CONVENIENT!  It must be a real drag when someone doesn't buy into your bullshit and sees you for what you really are.  When your god is exposed as an impostor and melts away and all you have left is what you are doing here and now and have done then and there what are you really?  What are you when the excuses run thin?  Must be a bitch when you have to stand on the shaky truth.
> ...



You are not "clear" on anything that I can tell.  I asked my oldest Jewish friend to move in as a room mate when he needed a place to stay.  This was before I traveled outside of Seattle and discovered what a bunch of rude self-serving assholes most Jewish people are.  You are almost "clear" in that  the vast majority of Jews are different...just not special.  Unless you admire assholes.  Anyway I don't see Jews a a "race".  I see a mish mash of many heredities that have deluded themselfs and unfortunately many non Jews into believing they are "chosen" and get to live by rules that would get anyone else killed.


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## logical4u (Mar 22, 2011)

What they found on that humanitarian aid ship bound for Gaza: http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk


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## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...


Good question -- 

_It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Musa Ash'ari that a desert Arab came to the Holy Prophet and said, "Messenger of Allah -- one man fights for the spoils of war, another fights so that he may be remembered, and another fights so that he may secure his reputation. Which of these is fighting in the cause of God?" The Messenger of Allah said, "Whoever fights so that the Word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the way of Allah."_ (Muslim)​
IOW, fulfilling divine commandments on a personal level and on the societal level. That's how I understand it.



High_Gravity said:


> for all we know the guys fighting for Hamas and the Taliban are going to burn in hell.



That's completely possible. It doesn't matter how depraved your enemy is or how noble your companions are if you aren't fighting for the right reason.

_...Allah will say, "What did you do?" He will say, "I fought for Thee until I died as a martyr." Allah will say, "You have told a lie. You fought so that you might be called a 'brave warrior' -- and you were called so." Orders will be passed against him and he will be dragged with his face downward and cast into Hell._ (Muslim)​
That's about the first person judged on the Day of Resurrection. And you're totally right about us not knowing whose intentions are pure; intentions are God's knowledge.


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## Lasher (Mar 22, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> 
> Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the Jewish religious settlement of Itamar, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, for the killer or killers.
> 
> ...



Like the Israelis said when an IDF soldier purposefully ran over Sarah Corrie with a bull-dozer and killed her, "It was a mistake."


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2011)

Lasher said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> ...


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## Jos (Mar 22, 2011)

logical4u said:


> idfnadesk


Please  tell us if you are paid to repeat IDF propaganda


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## Lasher (Mar 22, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> > *****This is NOT a defense of the killings*******
> ...



What method would you have preferred?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2011)

Lasher said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > spectrumc01 said:
> ...


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## Lasher (Mar 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Lasher said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



You are very eloquent and articulate in your replies to my posts, old sport, thank you for all your trenchant information.


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## logical4u (Mar 22, 2011)

Lasher said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> ...



Bulldozers have run over people in this country that were tens of feet in front of the dozer.  The operator cannot see "through" the bucket.  If something moves in front of it, after they are driving, chances are they cannot see.  Engineers have been run over, assuming the operator was watching out for them.  If something is way bigger than you, stay out of the blind spot.  Each case was an accident and a tragedy.  Sarah's family has my sympathies.


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## logical4u (Mar 22, 2011)

Jos said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > idfnadesk
> ...



Just trying to balance out the Palestinian propoganda, do you like that?  Do you want to go into full blown denial?  Or are trying to shoot the messenger so that you don't have to face the message?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2011)

Lasher said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Lasher said:
> ...


----------



## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



There was a guy called Haatib who was caught sending information about the Prophet's plans to a hostile group of pagans in Makkah. He said that he didn't mean to betray his religion and that he only helped the pagans in the hope that they wouldn't harm his family, who lived in that city. The Prophet said that Haatib was telling the truth, but 'Umar asked for permission to execute him. He was forgiven instead and a revelation was delivered in connection to his error:

_O you who believe: take not my enemies and your enemies as allies -- offering them love while they have disbelieved in what came to you from the Truth, expelling the Messenger and yourselves because you believe in Allah, your Lord --  If you go out exertively in My Way and seek My Pleasure. You confide love to them, but I am All-Knowing of what you conceal and what you declare. And whoever does it among you, then certainly he has strayed from the straight path. If they subdue you, they will be enemies to you and extend against you their hands and their tongues with evil, and they desire that you would disbelieve. Never will your relatives or your children benefit you on the Day of Resurrection. He will judge between you, and Allah is All-Seer of what you do._ - 60:1-3​
So I don't think that those who repeat his mistake in spite of this clear warning have an excuse.


----------



## Lasher (Mar 22, 2011)

logical4u said:


> Lasher said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



That isn't true at all, the news reports said the operator had full knowledge of Sarah's presence, and had hesitated before being given the order to go ahead and kill her.


----------



## High_Gravity (Mar 22, 2011)

Lasher said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > Lasher said:
> ...


----------



## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Well thank you Kalam.  You have in a short time here confirmed every belief that honorable people hold regarding Islamofacist terrorist thugs and those who condone what they do.  How sad it must be to worship a deity who would require such behavior.  How sad that you are not allowed to have love and concern for people who do not share your beliefs and doctrine.  How sad that you are not allowed to accept love and compassion that is yours to have should you choose to receive it.   You have my pity.



Your pity stems from misconceptions. You coincidentally mentioned something addressed in the passage almost immediately after the one I just quoted in my last post; Subhan Allah:

_Perhaps Allah will put love between you and those to whom you have been enemies, and Allah is All-Powerful. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Allah forbids you not from dealing kindly and justly with those who do not fight you over religion and drive you out of your homes. Indeed, Allah loves the just. Allah forbids only that you make allies of those who fight you in religion and drive you out of your homes and assist in your expulsion. And whoever makes them allies -- they are the wrongdoers._ (60:7-9)​


Foxfyre said:


> It does explain perhaps why Islam has produced so little for the general benefit of humankind for many generations now while Judaism and Christianity have produced so much.


Very one-dimensional, but I won't bother pressing the issue and risk derailing the discussion. Let's move on.



Foxfyre said:


> Judaism and Christianity both know the great IAM, the God who directs their hearts and leads them in a path of justice and compassion even for those who believe differently.  We of course differ a bit on how God is carrying out his plan, but that's okay.  God is wise enough and big enough to work out those differences too.
> 
> I think the Allah who requires such cruelty and brutality does not know the God of the Jew and Christian.  If he did, and could make peace, a great many of the problems of the world would immediately cease to exist.



Gal 6:7


----------



## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

logical4u said:


> You did not "condemn" the man or men that killed the Jewish family.  You did go to great lengths to insult the soldier and all (Jews or those you regard as 'no longer faithful to islam') involved with that trial (with reason).  *You did not criticize* those that "celebrated" the brutal slaughter of this family in the streets of their community.  I am not having trouble reading.  What you leave out of your comments is far more telling than what you "actually" post.


I guess calling for their execution wasn't quite enough. 



logical4u said:


> How did I lie?  I stated that soldiers are obligated to protect their 'area'.  If someone charges (or as you have corrected my understanding, is running away from) a military position (possibly after setting or intending to bomb), it is the nature to shoot first and find out later.  That shooting was wrong.  It was understandable.


You continue to defend savagery. 



logical4u said:


> Now, explain how those man/men that broke into someone's home were acting in defense of their position.


Why?


----------



## logical4u (Mar 22, 2011)

Lasher said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > Lasher said:
> ...



who was the news reporter?

I didn't say "that operator".  I was speaking of heavy equipment, in general.


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## logical4u (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > You did not "condemn" the man or men that killed the Jewish family.  You did go to great lengths to insult the soldier and all (Jews or those you regard as 'no longer faithful to islam') involved with that trial (with reason).  *You did not criticize* those that "celebrated" the brutal slaughter of this family in the streets of their community.  I am not having trouble reading.  What you leave out of your comments is far more telling than what you "actually" post.
> ...




Still will not criticize the actions or the communities that celebrated the brutal murders?????  Calling for an execution is not saying the act was wrong.  You call for the executions of those that do not follow islam as you do.  Calling for another execution doesn't seem to mean much, to you.


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## mnbasketball (Mar 22, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


> (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> 
> Israeli troops set up roadblocks and were searching the area around the Jewish religious settlement of Itamar, near the Palestinian city of Nablus, for the killer or killers.
> 
> ...



this happens everyday in our own country just for different reasons is all.

Most likely they would have been rapped and others made to watch if it was in America.

Is one a better way to die than the other?


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## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

logical4u said:


> Why do the muslim 'citizens' celebrate and support leaders that oppress "people he claims are his coreligionists"?



They don't. If you're interested in the politics of the region, give this article a read:

The Robustness of Authoritarianism in the Middle East: Exceptionalism in Comparative Perspective (Bellin)


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## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

GHook93 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > You sure do want me to hate Jews. I don't, though; sorry.
> ...



Nah, sorry to let you down bro.


----------



## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

logical4u said:


> Still will not criticize the actions or the communities that celebrated the brutal murders?????  Calling for an execution is not saying the act was wrong.



I'll let you think about this one for a minute.


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## Foxfyre (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> That's about the first person judged on the Day of Resurrection. And you're totally right about us not knowing whose intentions are pure; intentions are God's knowledge.



Wouldn't Islam be a wonderful religion if all would leave it to God to judge people and their intent and motives then rather than slit the throats of a sleeping mother and children because they believe Allah requires it?


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 22, 2011)

Palestinian Muslims, Christians, and Jews were all opposed to the foreign takeover of their country and still are.

With Muslims, Christians, and Jews on the same side, why does everyone talk about the Muslims?


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## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Wouldn't Islam be a wonderful religion if all would leave it to God to judge people and their intent and motives then



God holds us accountable for our intentions and we hold each other accountable for our actions. 



Foxfyre said:


> rather than slit the throats of a sleeping mother and children *because they believe Allah requires it?*



Source? 

_Isma'il narrated on the authority of al-Aswad ibn Sareeh, who said: ...[the Messenger of Allah] said, "What is wrong with people that the fighting today had caused them to go so far as to kill children!?" So a man said, "O Messenger of Allah, they are just children of the polytheists!" So he said, "Nay, verily the best of you are the children of polytheists!" Then he said, "Nay, do not kill children! Nay, do not kill children!"_ (Ahmad)

_It is narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah that a woman was found killed in one of the battles fought by the Messenger of Allah. He disapproved of the killing of women and children._ (Bukhari, Muslim)

_It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah forbade the killing of women and children._ (Bukhari, Muslim, Malik)

_...Ibn 'Abbas wrote to [Yazid ibn Hurmuz]: "...And the Messenger of Allah did not kill the children of the enemy, so thou shouldst not kill the children."_ (Muslim)

_...Then Abu Bakr advised Yazid (ibn Abi Sufyan), "...I advise you ten things: Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the spoils, and do not be cowardly."_ (Malik)​


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## Jroc (Mar 22, 2011)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjuDTO8fgqM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjuDTO8fgqM[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBnciAZDoL4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBnciAZDoL4[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjxm3OSy4EE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjxm3OSy4EE[/ame]


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## Jroc (Mar 22, 2011)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLn0XI-NxmI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLn0XI-NxmI[/ame]


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## Jroc (Mar 22, 2011)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ3rp4nfMNc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ3rp4nfMNc[/ame]


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## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

Ho, hum, I can do that too.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t_LxpCY2G8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t_LxpCY2G8[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FABqq_jjRRo[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVxOnXbyYQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psVxOnXbyYQ[/ame]

But I won't indict your entire religion because I'm not an idiot.


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## Jroc (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> But I won't indict your entire religion because I'm not an idiot.



Really? Then maybe you should focus on your Religion whose so-called radicals have taken over while the more moderates (you not included in that group) are drowned out. You may be able to find a couple thousand more extremists Jew, but they are not and cannot drown out the bulk of the Jewish population. Sorry but you fail, as you fail when you pretend to be some kind of tolerant muslim as you post on this thread in an attempt to divert the subject away from the slaughtering of that family, those children in their sleep


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## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

Jroc said:


> Really? Then maybe you should focus on your Religion


You may not have noticed that most of my posts on USMB have something to do with my religion...



Jroc said:


> whose so-called radicals have taken over while the more moderates (you not included in that group) are drowned out.


Taken over what? There's no hierarchical structure for anyone to take over.  



Jroc said:


> You may be able to find a couple thousand more extremists Jew, but they are not and cannot drown out the bulk of the Jewish population. Sorry but you fail, as you fail when you pretend to be some kind of tolerant muslim as you post on this thread in an attempt to divert the subject away from the slaughtering of that family, those children in their sleep


I 'fail'? Hokay pal. 

When was I pretending to be something again?


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## Jroc (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> Taken over what? There's no hierarchical structure for anyone to take over.




Doen't have to be, the radicals are the voice of islam ...sad to say.


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## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

Jroc said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Taken over what? There's no hierarchical structure for anyone to take over.
> ...



What's that? And which group of people are you talking about?


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## Jroc (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



What was your reason for posting on this thread? why did you feel the need? The title of this thread is 'How can you defend this" (the slaughter of a family in their sleep) you had to post here why?


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## Kalam (Mar 22, 2011)

Jroc said:


> What was your reason for posting on this thread? why did you feel the need? The title of this thread is 'How can you defend this" (the slaughter of a family in their sleep) you had to post here why?



I posted here for the same reason I always post -- I felt like responding to something that someone else had written. Do I need your permission or a special visa to enter this thread? Is it only open to people who participate in the Muslim/Palestinian-demonizing circle jerk?


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## Jroc (Mar 22, 2011)

Kalam said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > What was your reason for posting on this thread? why did you feel the need? The title of this thread is 'How can you defend this" (the slaughter of a family in their sleep) you had to post here why?
> ...



All I see is that you attempt to change the subject to Anti-Zionism which is not what the thread is about. Demonizing? do we need to demonize those who commented these murders? Do you feel the need to defend them?


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## Kalam (Mar 23, 2011)

Jroc said:


> All I see is that you attempt to change the subject to Anti-Zionism


The thread was derailed within the first few posts. Welcome to USMB -- that tends to happen here. I can assure you that I haven't made any conscious effort to "change the subject to Anti-Zionism" or done much of anything apart from addressing posts directed toward me...



Jroc said:


> Demonizing? do we need to demonize those who commented these murders?


Beats me. Most discussants seem to have contented themselves with spewing uninformed diatribes directed at Palestinians or Muslims in general.



Jroc said:


> Do you feel the need to defend them?


Have I posted anything in their defense?


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## Jroc (Mar 23, 2011)

Kalam said:


> The thread was derailed within the first few posts. Welcome to USMB -- that tends to happen here. I can assure you that I haven't made any conscious effort to "change the subject to Anti-Zionism" or done much of anything apart from addressing posts directed toward me...



Yep it was derailed by people trying to defend or make excuses for the slaughter of children as far as the "Zionist apes" I believe it was you that first used that discription.  



> Have I posted anything in their defense?



The fact that you took the conversation were it went was a defense of the scum


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 23, 2011)

Foxfyre said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Foxfyre said:
> ...



When was anyone ever beheaded in Palestine?

Post link to story.


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2011)

mnbasketball said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> > (Reuters) - A Jewish couple and three of their children were stabbed to death in bed in a West Bank settlement in what Israeli officials said Saturday was an attack by one or more Palestinians who broke into their home.
> ...


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## Ropey (Mar 23, 2011)

This thread is a hate primer for those who support and defend such actions.

They use but, however, and many other methods to soften the murderous impact whilst strengthening their views of how this foul act has support.

Maybe that's the reason for the "anything goes" on this website. Then the Huggy's and other Jew haters can come out and be seen.

Rather than hiding under the rocks.


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## Kalam (Mar 23, 2011)

Ropey said:


> This thread is a hate primer for those who support and defend such actions.



It's certainly an interesting read for us. You know, believers in the religion that was 'sent by God' but is also the 'words of Satan' and the product of a 'false deity.'


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## Lasher (Mar 23, 2011)

Ropey said:


> This thread is a hate primer for those who support and defend such actions.
> 
> They use but, however, and many other methods to soften the murderous impact whilst strengthening their views of how this foul act has support.
> 
> ...



Maybe they figured you guys needed some company under those rocks.


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## Lasher (Mar 23, 2011)

High_Gravity said:


> mnbasketball said:
> 
> 
> > PoliticalChic said:
> ...



You are aware, aren't you, that a chimpanzee can post the same way you do?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2011)

Lasher said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > mnbasketball said:
> ...


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## Ropey (Mar 23, 2011)

Lasher said:


> You are aware, aren't you, that a chimpanzee can post the same way you do?



That's simply stupid Lasher. Try dealing with the message rather than attempting to attack the messenger. 



> this happens everyday in our own country just for different reasons is all.
> 
> Most likely they would have been rapped and others made to watch if it was in America.
> 
> Is one a better way to die than the other?



The message was clear even if I think it is ignorant.

Yours response to HG is simply stupidity.


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## Lasher (Mar 23, 2011)

Ropey said:


> Lasher said:
> 
> 
> > You are aware, aren't you, that a chimpanzee can post the same way you do?
> ...


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2011)

Lasher said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Lasher said:
> ...


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## Lasher (Mar 23, 2011)

Jroc said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Jroc said:
> ...



"Commented" these murders??

Do you feel the need to defend the IDF creeps who murder innocent Palestinian children?


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## High_Gravity (Mar 23, 2011)

Lasher said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...


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## logical4u (Mar 23, 2011)

Apparently some muslims hate the Jews so much, that they are trying to hurt the dead:
My Way News - Desecration, attacks at ancient Jewish cemetery


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## logical4u (Mar 23, 2011)

And it continues:

1 dead, 39 injured in Jerusalem bus station bombing 1 dead, 39 injured in Jerusalem bus station bombing

Israel braces for flare-up as Gazan rockets hit  Israel braces for flare-up as Gazan rockets hit - Yahoo! News


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## Kalam (Mar 23, 2011)

logical4u said:


> Apparently some muslims hate the Jews so much, that they are trying to hurt the dead:
> My Way News - Desecration, attacks at ancient Jewish cemetery



Something that cowards have done before and will again:












			
				Ynet said:
			
		

> Muslim graveyard vandalized
> 
> Dozens of Jewish worshippers [sic] desecrated a Muslim cemetery in a Palestinian village near Arial on Friday.
> 
> ...



BBC NEWS | Europe | Vandals hit French Muslim graves
Muslim cemetery vandalized in Ukraine, officials say - Orlando Sentinel
BBC News - Appeal after Muslim graves at Leeds cemetery damaged
BBC News - Arrest in Manchester vandalised Muslim graves inquiry

You seem to be insinuating that this crime is particular to Islam.


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## Jroc (Mar 23, 2011)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IENYqMuXVhk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IENYqMuXVhk[/ame]


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## GHook93 (Mar 23, 2011)

Lasher said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



This is all I have to say to you futnut!


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## Foxfyre (Mar 24, 2011)

Kalam said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently some muslims hate the Jews so much, that they are trying to hurt the dead:
> ...



The difference is that these desecrations were done by vandals and in every single case, the leadership of the country involved denounced the act and the vandals, and if they had caught the vandals, the vandals would have been prosecuted.

I'm still waiting for you to denounce the militant Muslims doing violence to the mother and children in the OP for this thread and otherwise and calling for their arrest and prosecution.


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## P F Tinmore (Mar 24, 2011)

hipeter924 said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > *Palestinians Celebrate Massacre of Jewish Family *
> ...



A day later, some of my Jewish friends sent me messages inquiring if it was true that Palestinians in Gaza celebrate the killing of Jews. One of them asked Is there a custom to give out sweets after such events? The messages came with several links. I expected to see the usual pro-Israel hasbara sites but to my surprise one link was to the Australian Herald Sun which lead me to an article titled White House Condemn Killing.  

The article had no mention of any Gaza celebrations, but was accompanied by a large AFP credited photo of a man standing in a street in Gaza offering a small platter of sweets to two somber looking Hamas Policemen. The only reference or clue to celebration came in the photo caption: A Palestinian man distributes sweets in the streets of the southern Gaza Strip town of Rafah on March 12, 2011 to celebrate an attack which killed five Israeli settlers at the Itamar settlement near the West Bank city of Nablus. I did some more research and found that the same article also appeared on Perth Now, News.com.au and The Daily Telegraph.

From here I began an extensive search on the internet. There were references to Gazas celebrations in a variety of international media websites including Fox News and Washington Post, but all the references pointed to one original source  three photos by AFP cameraman posted on Getty images, so I followed the trail.   

The three original photos starred the same man with the same small sweet platter.  In the first shot, he offers the platter to the two policemen; in the second he offers it to a man in a car at a traffic light who looks a bit confused but is accepting the offer of sweets; and in the third photo, the same man offers the small platter of sweets to an old lady sitting on a pavement. The backdrop of the photos revealed nothing more than an average busy day in a street in Gaza with the normal amount of traffic, a few cars, vans etc. There was nothing in the photos to convey a sense of joy or celebration: there were no crowds, no smiling faces, no banners, no flags and no scarfs in fact, no people appeared in the photos except for the man with the platter and his subjects. This was highly unusual for a Gaza celebration.

A Gazan's Reflection on the Murder of Jews in Itamar


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## Jroc (Mar 24, 2011)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjK8M4uxcjM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjK8M4uxcjM[/ame]


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## logical4u (Mar 24, 2011)

Kalam said:


> logical4u said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently some muslims hate the Jews so much, that they are trying to hurt the dead:
> ...



No, just pointing out that the "Palestinians" are not "innocent" and do attack Jews (even dead ones).  There are a few posters that present the Palestinians as the "victim" while refusing to acknowledge the Palestinian attacks against Jews.


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