# Pit bulls are safe around children!



## Godboy (Jul 21, 2014)

How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother. 

These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!


Police identify boy, 4, killed in dog attack


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## Mr. H. (Jul 21, 2014)

I'll be glad when our dog is dead. He's a mutt with just enough Chow to give him that attitude. 

Pit Bulls are an abomination of canine cross-breading.


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## Silhouette (Jul 21, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
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> ...



I think the breed originated as war dogs, bred to attack and kill humans.  Certainly the Germans developed a couple of those breeds as did many other cultures.  My friend had a doberman who are unpredictable in the same way.  The family praised the creature, a female who basically was easy going if weird.  Then one day for no apparent reason the dog up and viciously attacked my friend.  They had to give it away or put it down.  If forget.  It was a long time ago.


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## Wake (Jul 21, 2014)

I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.

They're not evil, but misunderstood. It is the owner who abuses the dogs that is to blame here.


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

Wake said:


> I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.
> 
> They're not evil, but misunderstood. It is the owner who abuses the dogs that is to blame here.


You cant claim abuse, with zero evidence to support the claim.

This is exactly what im talking about. This post is what every owner says before his dog mauls someone, then when they attack they are so shocked, despite the fact that they are notorious for doing so.


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## Wake (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Wake said:
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> > I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.
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Have you owned pitbulls, Godboy?

I have a lot of experience and knowledge about them, and am interested in breeding purebreds in the future. I can certainly claim abuse, and the way some of these dogs are raised. Did you know that some people put very heavy weights around their necks in order to toughen them up? Or that they get treated badly by some so that they become aggressive and good guard dogs? 

There's a difference between a loving puppy raised well, and a dog that's been trained to be vicious. Personally I don't think you know know enough about pitbulls in order to really discuss the issue. I don't mean that as an insult. Having spent most of my life around the dogs, and also knowing those that were trained to be aggressive, I find it very naive of you to say they're something they aren't.


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

Wake said:


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Remember that guy who thought bears were safe? He was playing with them out in the wild, until one of them killed him. Ive seen people who owned tigers, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed either. Pit bulls, much like tigers and bears, are dangerous animals. Sure they might be capable of showing love for a human that raises them, but it also might fucking snap one day and kill someone, perhaps even its owner. People like you make this world more dangerous with your naïve talk about how safe pit bulls are.


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## Wake (Jul 22, 2014)

Bears and tigers are wild animals.

Pitbulls are domesticated, and the ones that become aggressive were trained to be that way through abuse and fear from bad owners.

Definitely apples and oranges, Godboy. Pitbulls raise with love and affection are incredibly loyal, loving, sweet, playful, and smart. If you raise them well, they will love you. I love it when they tuck their little butts in and dash around to play.


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

Wake said:


> Bears and tigers are wild animals.
> 
> Pitbulls are domesticated, and the ones that become aggressive were trained to be that way through abuse and fear from bad owners.
> 
> Definitely apples and oranges, Godboy. Pitbulls raise with love and affection are incredibly loyal, loving, sweet, playful, and smart. If you raise them well, they will love you. I love it when they tuck their little butts in and dash around to play.



If they are so safe, why is it that every time we hear about a toddler being mauled to death, a pit bull is always involved?


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## Synthaholic (Jul 22, 2014)

Wake said:


> I've lived with pitbulls and, *if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.*
> 
> They're not evil, but misunderstood. It is the owner who abuses the dogs that is to blame here.



True dat!


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## Tank (Jul 22, 2014)

Pit Bulls are the dogs that attack humans the most, so I guess Pit Bulls must have the worst owners?


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

If its just a matter of how they are raised, why don't we see more golden retriever attacks? Certainly there are bad owners who beat their golden retrievers. Could it be that pit bulls are FAR more likely to attack someone than the other breeds? Can we at least recognize facts in this discussion?


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Wake said:
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evidently the only thing you listen to is stories about pitbulls killing toddlers. how do you explain all the pit bulls that don't kill toddlers?


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
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> ...



You should take that inverted pentagram off your avatar you little weakass pussy.  You ain't foolin' nobody


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## Tank (Jul 22, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
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The point is, Pit Bulls kill the most of any breed


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Godboy said:
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> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
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What exactly do you think my avatar means to me?


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

Tank said:


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how can you prove that when most people misidentify pitbulls? no the point is that most pitbulls do not kill people.


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## Tank (Jul 22, 2014)

Pit Bulls and Negros hae alot in common


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

Tank said:


> Pit Bulls and Negros hae alot in common



thanks for the compliment.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
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> > You should take that inverted pentagram off your avatar you little weakass pussy.  You ain't foolin' nobody
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I'm going to guess, from the Nature of your postings, that the inverted pentagram bears no actual Sinister meaning to you.  I doubt you have any reason to use it as a symbol of Power or Man's primal Nature either.

I know what it means to me, my associates, and most who willingly don that symbol.  

Many things.  Many things that I do not see in you.

Enlighten me to what meaning you find in that avatar.  It is one of my favorite symbols, and I cannot yet see any reason why you would bring to it such shame.  Such dishonor.  Such disrespect.


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## Tank (Jul 22, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Tank said:
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> > Pit Bulls and Negros hae alot in common
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They are both violent by nature


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Wake said:
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> > I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.
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I agree. It's like saying you can keep a bomb in your house and as long as you treat it properly, there is no problem, but if something goes wrong k-boom and someone is dead or seriously injured.  The love of pitbulls is completely irrational.  The breed needs to be made extinct.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

One thing I have read about pitbulls is that, though other dogs bite, and perhaps as often as pitbulls, when a pitbull attacks, it is more likely to end in death, especially when they attack a child or elderly person.



> In the 9-year period from 2005 to 2013, pit bulls killed 176 Americans and accounted for 62% of the total recorded deaths (283). Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 74% of these deaths


http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities.php


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 22, 2014)

Love the animal, but respect the animal's Nature.


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Godboy said:
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It means nothing to me, because im an atheist.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

Who the fuck cares about an avatar?  Is that what this thread is about, analyzing avatars?


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


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And I know plenty of Athiests who have great reasons for using this symbol.  The one thing we all have in common, spiritual and non spiritual alike, is that those of us who who bear the inverted pentagram use that symbol to express something really fucking deep.

Not you though. Not Fraudboy.

Maybe you thought you would appear tough, or maybe you really didn't even think about it.  It really doesn't matter. 

You are pathetic.  You are disgusting. You are weak.  You are lifeless and dull.  

You are nothing but a scared little Mundane.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 22, 2014)

Wake said:


> I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.
> 
> They're not evil, but misunderstood. It is the owner who abuses the dogs that is to blame here.



I thought the very same thing, right up to the moment my pitbull attacked and tried to kill me.

What did I do to provoke the attack? My wife dusted the furniture in the dining room and left his walking leash on the floor. I pick up the leash...


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## Noomi (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...



The vast majority of pit bulls are harmless, and will not bite children.


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## Noomi (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> I agree. It's like saying you can keep a bomb in your house and as long as you treat it properly, there is no problem, but if something goes wrong k-boom and someone is dead or seriously injured.  The love of pitbulls is completely irrational.  The breed needs to be made extinct.



I don't agree. You cannot get rid of an entire breed simply because the dog MIGHT attack. You are tarring the entire breed with the same brush. You cannot do that people, so why is it okay to do it to animals?


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

There are over 300 breeds of dogs.  Of the dog attacks that occur in the US and end in death, 62% are attacks by pit bulls.  One breed out of 300 breeds causing 62% of all deaths.  And you still believe they are a safe dog to have, especially to have around children? Most deaths that occur from dog attacks are of the elderly or children.  One breed out of 300+ breeds. Think about it.



> The World Canine Organization is best known by its French title Fédération Cynologique Internationale which is abbreviated FCI. It is the largest registry of dog breeds that is internationally accepted. *At the time of this writing the FCI recognizes 339 breeds of dogs *which are divided into 10 groups based upon the dog&#8217;s purpose or function or upon its appearance or size.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201305/how-many-breeds-dogs-are-there-in-the-world


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## Noomi (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> There are over 300 breeds of dogs.  Of the dog attacks that occur in the US and end in death, 62% are attacks by pit bulls.  One breed out of 300 breeds causing 62% of all deaths.  And you still believe they are a safe dog to have, especially to have around children? Most deaths that occur from dog attacks are of the elderly or children.  One breed out of 300+ breeds. Think about it.
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Put it this way. You could have 100 pit bulls living in a house with a small child. Is every one of those dogs going to attack the child? Of course not.


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## BobPlumb (Jul 22, 2014)

Pitt bulls should be kept away from small children.  I know this may seem unfair to the many Pitt bulls that harm no one.  However, Pitt bulls are bred to be compact killing machines.  If a beagle unpredictably snaps a attacks a child there is usually little harm that a band-aid and a hug and kiss from mom will not fix.  When a Pitt bull snaps and attacks a child it can often mean death to the child.

Also, small children often do stupid things that might provoke an animal.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Wake said:
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First of all, that is simply not the case.

Second of all, the chances of a dog being called a pitbull when it is not is fairly high.  
Pick the Pit - Can you find the Pitbull?

Third, with the increased popularity of organized dogfighting over the past few decades, the number of unstable and poorly socialized pitbulls is growing.

And lastly, the issue with pits is less about their temper and more about a few physical characteristics.  Their jaw strength is much greater than many common pet breeds, and their tolerance for pain is also much greater.  So if one does attack, the damage tends to be greater than attacks from other breeds.  Pits are not the most likely to bite or attack.  They don't even make the top 10.  But the sensationalistic media is prone to make it seem as though pits are a timebomb, when nothing could be further from the truth.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Tank said:


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The problem with that claim is the source of the facts and figures.  Many people who want to see the pit banned use the CDC's report as evidence.

But they conveniently ignore the CDC's own warnings concerning the validity of their statistics.  Where did the CDC obtain their statistics?  From some far-reaching study?  No, mostly from media reports.

"Some of the most frequently cited statistics come from the Center for Disease Control&#8217;s Special Report on fatal human dog attacks between 1979 and 1998. The report attributes a third of the fatalities between 1981 &#8211; 1992 to &#8220;pit-bull type dogs,&#8221; but what the other side fails to include is that the report comes with many warnings about its &#8220;statistics&#8221;:

&#8226; First, let&#8217;s look at where the CDC and other studies get their information: You guessed it &#8211; largely from media accounts. Of course, the media reports on pit bull-related incidents far more than those involving other types of dogs, a fact clearly detailed in the Canine Research Council&#8217;s publication, &#8220;The Pit Bull Placebo,&#8221; and the ASPCA&#8217;s &#8220;Pit Bull Bias in the Media.&#8221; Another commonly cited source, the anti-pit bull website Dogsbite.org, also sites studies that use press accounts to compile their numbers. 

&#8226; Aside from the fact the collection methods were faulty, *the CDC study notes that guessing a dog&#8217;s breed is just that, a guess*. And what&#8217;s more, people are influenced by a dog&#8217;s reputation and may attribute breed to a dog involved in an incident based on that rather than any real knowledge. To quote the report: &#8220;&#8230; to the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more newsworthy than those by other breeds, our methods may have resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalities by breed. &#8230; *ecause identification of a dog&#8217;s breed may be subjective (even experts may disagree on a breed of a particular dog), DBRF [dog bite related fatalities] may be differentially ascribed to breeds with a reputation for aggression.&#8221; It gets muddier from there, considering that &#8220;pit-bull type dogs&#8221; are not a breed at all but a type encompassing several breeds and mixes that resemble those breeds. This means you have a very loose category of dogs that it&#8217;s easy for people to miss-identify.

&#8226; Sites like Dogsbite.org like to claim that pit bulls only make up 5 percent of the total dog population in the United States and are therefore &#8220;attacking&#8221; at a much higher rate than other dogs, but the truth is that there are no accurate statistics kept on the total number of dogs in this country, let alone dogs by type. The CDC clearly states this on its website: &#8220;There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill.&#8221; And while it&#8217;s anyone&#8217;s guess exactly how many pit bull type dogs there are in this country, it&#8217;s clear from looking around most cities, neighborhoods and shelters that dogs labeled as pit bulls are far more common than 5 percent.

&#8226; Of course, there are even more factors to consider. The CDC study begins at the same time pit bulls&#8217; &#8220;Evolution of a Bad Rap&#8221; started. Prior to that, according to &#8220;The Pit Bull Placebo,&#8221; pit bulls were nowhere to be found on bite lists. &#8220;In a 10-year span, from 1966 &#8211; 1975, there is only one documented case of a fatal dog attack in the United States by a dog which could even remotely be identified as a &#8216;Pit bull,&#8217; &#8221; writes the book&#8217;s author, Karen Delise. (And there are no incidents to date of a spayed/neutered indoor family pit bull ever having killed anyone.)"


Once again, "In a 10-year span, from 1966 &#8211; 1975, there is only one documented case of a fatal dog attack in the United States by a dog which could even remotely be identified as a &#8216;Pit bull,&#8217; &#8221; writes the book&#8217;s author, Karen Delise. (And there are no incidents to date of a spayed/neutered indoor family pit bull ever having killed anyone.)"     Is anyone here claiming that there were no pitbulls prior to 1975??*


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


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Absolute nonsense based solely on sensationalistic press clippings and lies.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> There are over 300 breeds of dogs.  Of the dog attacks that occur in the US and end in death, 62% are attacks by pit bulls.  One breed out of 300 breeds causing 62% of all deaths.  And you still believe they are a safe dog to have, especially to have around children? Most deaths that occur from dog attacks are of the elderly or children.  One breed out of 300+ breeds. Think about it.
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Repeating nonsense does not make it true.

Please tell us the source of how many pitbulls there are in the US??  The CDC has stated that the is no reputable source for the number of dogs in general, to say nothing of that number broken down by breeds.

And please tell us what expert identified the dog as a pitbull?   As has been shown numerous times, people are notoriously bad at identifying dog breeds, and the media attention to the pitbulls makes them a likely scapegoat.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

BobPlumb said:


> Pitt bulls should be kept away from small children.  I know this may seem unfair to the many Pitt bulls that harm no one.  However, Pitt bulls are bred to be compact killing machines.  If a beagle unpredictably snaps a attacks a child there is usually little harm that a band-aid and a hug and kiss from mom will not fix.  When a Pitt bull snaps and attacks a child it can often mean death to the child.
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> Also, small children often do stupid things that might provoke an animal.



Finally, someone addresses the actual hazards.   Thank you.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Esmeralda said:
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> > There are over 300 breeds of dogs.  Of the dog attacks that occur in the US and end in death, 62% are attacks by pit bulls.  One breed out of 300 breeds causing 62% of all deaths.  And you still believe they are a safe dog to have, especially to have around children? Most deaths that occur from dog attacks are of the elderly or children.  One breed out of 300+ breeds. Think about it.
> ...



You are the one repeating nonsense.  Why would anyone in their right mind defend these dogs? They kill children and the elderly. They attack other adults as well.  There are over 300 other breeds to choose from. Why on Earth do we need these dogs at all? They need to be eliminated. They serve no useful purpose.  Only pathetic people who for some incomprehensible reason want to defend these dogs say they can't be identified.  The number of pit bulls is estimated, like any other dog breed, so your argument there is ludicrous.  The fact they are identifiable is obvious. It's the argument of the desperate who say they are confused with other breeds.

This is no different than those who defend the proliferation of guns in America. Every time there is a massacre, rational people say we need gun control.  All the gun nuts say we don't.  Every time a pit bull kills a child or elderly person, rational people say we need to get rid of pit bulls, while pit bull nuts say they are sweet and gentle animals.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> BobPlumb said:
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> > Pitt bulls should be kept away from small children.  I know this may seem unfair to the many Pitt bulls that harm no one.  However, Pitt bulls are bred to be compact killing machines.  If a beagle unpredictably snaps a attacks a child there is usually little harm that a band-aid and a hug and kiss from mom will not fix.  When a Pitt bull snaps and attacks a child it can often mean death to the child.
> ...



Oh, I see. It's the victim's fault. And women who get raped deserve it because of the way they dress, act, or where they go alone any time of day or night. 

Yeah. Right. It is the fault of the victim.


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## GHook93 (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
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When I tell people I don't want pitbulls in my area and won't allow my kids to go to a home with a pitbull they always call me ignorant and don't understand it's the people who raise the dog not the dog itself. 

Then you hear of an attack and the same excuse is stated by the owner, "He never did anything like this before, he is such a nice dog and loves people."


My wife's friend had a pitbull and my wife refused to go over their. They have a little girl. The dog and her were inseparable. When man of the house was grilling steaks and brought the steaks in house, the dog was going nutz because of the smell. when the little girl went up to pet the dog, he turned and bite her on shoulder, just missing her face. He torn a muscle, dislocated the shoulder and he she has major joint problems.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


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First of all, reread what BobPlumb said.  The point was not that he blamed the victim.  He pointed out that the characteristics of a pitbull.

Second of all, the incidence of fatalities from dog bites is exceedingly rare.  You are more likely to be struck by lightning than to be killed by a dog.


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## GHook93 (Jul 22, 2014)

One note: I feel for the mother and it's hard to pick on her, but it wasn't too bright to leave your 4 yr old outside by himself. Even if the dogs weren't there and even worse when they were there. 

I can't imagine how she is going to live with that. I feel for her.


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## GHook93 (Jul 22, 2014)

Wake said:


> Bears and tigers are wild animals.
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> Pitbulls are domesticated, and the ones that become aggressive were trained to be that way through abuse and fear from bad owners.
> 
> Definitely apples and oranges, Godboy. Pitbulls raise with love and affection are incredibly loyal, loving, sweet, playful, and smart. If you raise them well, they will love you. I love it when they tuck their little butts in and dash around to play.



Probably half of the attacks are by owners who treat the dog great and are loving!


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


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I challenged the statistics presented because there is no way to know how many dogs there are in the US, let alone how many of a specific breed.  If you can provide a source for the number of pitbulls in the US, the statistics you quoted might be accurate.  Although you would still have to deal with the documented slant against pitbulls and the very common inaccuracies in identifying them.

Between 1979 & 1980, Great Danes were responsible for the most dog bite related fatalities.   "ince 1975, dogs belonging to more than 30 breeds have been responsible for fatal attacks on people, including Dachshunds, a Yorkshire Terrier, and a Labrador Retriever.  Pit Bulls by the Numbers : StubbyDog


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## GHook93 (Jul 22, 2014)

Noomi said:


> Godboy said:
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> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
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Harmless? None are harmless! I would stay most have responsible owners, who don't allow their dogs to attack people. That is the major difference.


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## candycorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
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> ...



Certain breeds of dogs are more aggressive than others.  That being said, not all dogs in the same breed exhibit all of the same tendencies.  Some are gentle; some are aggressive.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

candycorn said:


> Godboy said:
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> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...



Pitbulls are not even close to the top of the list of aggressive dog breeds.  They don't even make the top 10 in dog bites.

What separates the pitbull (and others in the pit group) is jaw strength and a very high pain threshold.  This means when they do attack, the damages tend to be much greater.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

GHook93 said:


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> > Godboy said:
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Certain breeds are easier to socialize than others, and require more from the owner.  My daughter has a pit, and it is the most loving, docile dog I have ever known.  He was once attacked at a dog park (by a greyhound-looking dog), and did not even fight back.  He sustained some fairly deep cuts on his neck and ear, but he never attacked back.  So much for the idea of "vicious".

I have had, and been around, numerous breeds over the years.  The most difficult dog to control, that I have ever owned, was a rescued Walker coonhound.  She was a sweet girl, but she certainly had her own mind and her own agenda.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



Absolute nonsense!  Sixty-two percent of all deaths related to dog attacks are attributed to pit bulls. Not aggressive?  You really need to be honest about this subject. Why on Earth would any reasonable human being defend these dogs?  It boggles the mind.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



You will be singing another turn when it, for no reason, goes berserk one day and tears off the face of one of your grandchildren.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



I would love to see the source of your numbers.  Any identification of a dog as a pit is suspect due to the media's slanted views.  This has been documented.

I am really honest about the subject.  You are the one quoting statistics that claim to know how many pitbulls there are in the US.  And yet the CDC says there is no way to know that.

You also have no documentation concerning the training of the pits involved in the fatal attacks.  Unless you can show that a significant portion of them were NOT involved or related with dog fighting and trained aggression, the numbers mean little. 

Here is more actual evidence:
from: Dog Bite-Related Fatalities | Canine Research Council

"*Family dogs were rarely involved*

76.2% of the DBRFs in this study involved dogs that were not kept as family pets; rather they were only resident on the property. The distinction between a resident dog and a family dog[2] was first proposed years ago by NCRC Founder Karen Delise. Dogs are predisposed to form attachments with people, to become dependent on people, and to rely upon their guidance in unfamiliar situations. While it is extremely rare that dogs living as either resident dogs or as family pets ever inflict serious injuries on humans, dogs not afforded the opportunity for regular, positive interaction with people may be more likely, in situations they perceive as stressful or threatening, to behave in ways primarily to protect themselves. 

*Breed was not one of the factors identified*

The authors report that the breed of the dog or dogs could not be reliably identified in more than 80% of cases. News accounts disagreed with each other and/or with animal control reports in a significant number of incidents, casting doubt on the reliability of breed attributions and more generally for using media reports as a primary source of data for scientific studies. In only 45 (18%) of the cases in this study could these researchers make a valid determination that the animal was a member of a distinct, recognized breed. Twenty different breeds, along with two known mixes, were identified in connection with those 45 incidents."


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > GHook93 said:
> ...



When?  not 'If'?    lmao

There are an average of 12 fatal dog attacks per year.  

By comparison:  CPSC Warns: Pools Are Not the Only Drowning Danger at Home for Kids - Data Show Other Hazards Cause More than 100 Residential Child Drowning Deaths Annually | CPSC.gov

"Young children are irresistibly drawn to water, and tragically, about 350 children under age 5 drown in swimming pools each year. But even if you don't have a pool, your young children may not be safe from drowning. At next month's World Congress on Drowning, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) presented data showing that about one-third as many children (an average of about 115 annually) drown from other hazards around the home as do in pools. *CPSC has received reports of 459 young children who drowned in bathtubs, buckets, toilets, spas, hot tubs and other containers of water in a 4-year period between 1996 and 1999.*"

Almost 10 times as many children drowned in bathtubs, buckets, toilets, spas, ect, as the total number of adults and children who died from dog attacks.

But you want to murder an entire breed because of a dozen individuals?  lol


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## candycorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



When they break bad...the group  can injure.  Still if I had my choice about what to attack me....I would prefer any number of breeds to a pit bull.  A fort, Madrid, or German shepherd would scare me much more than a pit bull.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

candycorn said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Agreed.


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## TrainTime (Jul 22, 2014)

Wake said:


> I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.
> 
> They're not evil, but misunderstood. It is the owner who abuses the dogs that is to blame here.



Same ol BULLSHIT...this woman was out for a jog when a "big baby" Pit lit into her....







This is the REALITY of Pitbulls.  Start charging the owners with felonious assault when this happens.


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## TrainTime (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > candycorn said:
> ...



COWARDS own pitbulls....simple as that.  They talk the talk but want a weapon on a leash to back it up.


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## jasonnfree (Jul 22, 2014)

I've had 3 pitbulls, two I raised as pups, male and female, both mild mannered. One male adopted from a friend who moved to apartment, no dogs allowed, so I knew the dog's temperament.  This pit got along fine with my other male and all children and guests.  I've also had two dobermans, one male, one female.  The female dobie seemed a little aggressive and a guard dog trainer I knew wanted her for her instincts so I gave her up.  This all over a period of almost forty years.  All my  dogs were good with children and all that although the pit's aggressiveness is usually towards other dogs and sometimes cats.  I didn't have that problem.    I've even seen pitbulls walk with neighbor kids to school.  Just my experience anyway.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

The only problem with pits is that if you are a uneducated or bad owner you will be exposed as such. Anyone that thinks owning a pit bull is for cowards just exposed themselves as being a coward. In my estimation pitbulls are the best dogs to get for children.  They were once known as the nanny dogs. I wonder how they got that title if the breed is dangerous?


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > The only problem with pits is that if you are a uneducated or bad owner you will be exposed as such. Anyone that thinks owning a pit bull is for cowards just exposed themselves as being a coward.
> ...


 
Apparently you appear to be the gutless one.  Let me guess. I bet you believe pits can lock their jaws?


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## jasonnfree (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...



The pitbull is a favorite of gang bangers, drug dealers, outlaw bikers, etc.  They like the breed and intentionally make them aggressive and encourage it.  They will, for example,  throw a cat in their yard and encourage the dog to kill, which is one of the problems of the breed's reputation.  And like I said, the breed was bred to be aggressive toward other dogs.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

jasonnfree said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...


 

Most people do not know that pits were specifically bred to be people friendly due to the rival dogs owner needing to check the dog for poisons on the fur prior to a fight.  Matter of fact the breed is not suggested to be a guard dog because they are so people friendly.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



This is something like the stupidist argument I ever heard. The parent has complete ability to oversee and insure that his or her child will not be harmed by water: all you have to do is supervise them. The water is not going to strike out and kill your child.  When a dog attacks  your child, you have little to no ability help your child. Why would a responsible parent kept a potentially deadly weapon in the house, one that can go off without warning and kill the child?  A swimming pool is  not going to attack your child.  A dog may well do so.

I don't want to murder the dogs. I want every single one to be sterilized and any further breeding stopped.  It won't take long for them to become extinct. They are already banned in several countries.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



You quote a statistic that would require knowing how many pitbulls live in the US, and ignore that there is no way to know this, and you have the gall to call my comments stupid?

Perhaps YOU would shy away if a dog attacked your child, but I assure you that I would not.

Considering the obvious difficulty in identifying pits, what you want to happen would result in the extinction of several breeds.  And all because of media induced hysteria, bad information, and an inability to identify a breed of dog.   Nice.  lol


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## depotoo (Jul 22, 2014)

I would hazard a guess, less pits than other breeds as so many places ban them now.





WinterBorn said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > There are over 300 breeds of dogs.  Of the dog attacks that occur in the US and end in death, 62% are attacks by pit bulls.  One breed out of 300 breeds causing 62% of all deaths.  And you still believe they are a safe dog to have, especially to have around children? Most deaths that occur from dog attacks are of the elderly or children.  One breed out of 300+ breeds. Think about it.
> ...


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> The only problem with pits is that if you are a uneducated or bad owner you will be exposed as such. Anyone that thinks owning a pit bull is for cowards just exposed themselves as being a coward. In my estimation pitbulls are the best dogs to get for children.  They were once known as the nanny dogs. I wonder how they got that title if the breed is dangerous?



Wow, you are a fucking idiot! I cant believe even your stupid ass would say such a moronic thing.


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## depotoo (Jul 22, 2014)

Having a friend that rescues and is active, even goes around setting up no cage shelters, had always  believed it was the owner that caused problems with pitts.  Even did radio shows proclaiming such. Had a friend in the same line of work.  Dog  pure bred, raised from 6 wks,  would come to visit.  Ended up attacking her one day out of the blue.  She loves dogs more than people.  She  changed her tune after 60 stitches to her leg.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

depotoo said:


> Having a friend that rescues and is active, even goes around setting up no cage shelters, *had always  believed it was the owner that caused problems with pitts.*  Even did radio shows proclaiming such. Had a friend in the same line of work.  Dog  pure bred, raised from 6 wks,  would come to visit.  Ended up attacking her one day out of the blue.  She loves dogs more than people.  She  changed her tune after 60 stitches to her leg.



That was her first mistake or she did not take that train of thought far enough.  Dogs have whats called a temperament.  This temperament is usually kept in check by breeding dogs with good temperament to each other and culling the bad ones.  If a dog is born with a bad temperament then that dog is mentally unstable. Due to the popularity of the breed many people are breeding the dogs without checking temperament. No dog attacks you out of the blue. Something set it off. Just because you dont know what it was only points to the fact you should not be working with dogs if you dont know enough about them


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## depotoo (Jul 22, 2014)

The TRUTH About Pit Bulls: The Nanny Dog Myth Revealed

this website dispels that myth, going back to the 18th century  in literature that shows the pit was known for its ferocity.  Has books, page numbers, etc. Listed.


Asclepias said:


> jasonnfree said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


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## depotoo (Jul 22, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> depotoo said:
> 
> 
> > Having a friend that rescues and is active, even goes around setting up no cage shelters, *had always  believed it was the owner that caused problems with pitts.*  Even did radio shows proclaiming such. Had a friend in the same line of work.  Dog  pure bred, raised from 6 wks,  would come to visit.  Ended up attacking her one day out of the blue.  She loves dogs more than people.  She  changed her tune after 60 stitches to her leg.
> ...


She walked from her house half way to her vehicle, that was it.  And she has a great working knowledge of dogs, even if you don't think so.  I hope and pray you don't have to one day eat your words.  And most importantly, a loved one doesn't have to.


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## Merchant_of_Meh (Jul 22, 2014)

Not a dog person myself so I'll only wade in far enough to give 2 cents on what I know about pit bulls. The ones I've been around made me pretty nervous. Very unpredictable. Don't know enough to know if that's natural or if that's down to how they're raised, but these 2 were very restless. Always moving.


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## depotoo (Jul 22, 2014)

boy 4 killed by dogs: Pit Bulls Kill Boy While He Ate Ice cream (PHOTO)S - dBTechno
Another 4 yr old in Fl this time, 2 days ago.


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## depotoo (Jul 22, 2014)

A*pit bull*attacked and*killed*a 7-month-old baby boy Sunday in Dayton, Ohio, police said.
Police: Dog attacks, kills baby in Ohio | www.whio.com
and another


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Pit bull, owner find missing woman in Piscataway - News 12 Bronx

Pitbull saves a missing woman.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Dog foils abduction | Peninsula Clarion

Pit saved girl from an abductor.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Pit bull saves New York woman from burning home - U.S. News

Pit saves owner from dying in a fire.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Sauk County woman saved by her pit bulls | News - Channel3000.com

Pit saves woman from gas leak.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

depotoo said:


> A*pit bull*attacked and*killed*a 7-month-old baby boy Sunday in Dayton, Ohio, police said.
> Police: Dog attacks, kills baby in Ohio | www.whio.com
> and another



From your link:

"Records at the Montgomery County Animal Resource Center show an American Staffordshire Terrier, which resembles a pit bull, is registered at the address."

So it was NOT a pitbull.  The news media has no problem reporting it as such, even when their own article clarifies that it was not a pitbull.

This actually adds proof to my point about errors in identifying dog breeds.


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## TrainTime (Jul 22, 2014)

The chumps who own these murderous beasts never get what they got coming when one goes off on somebody.   Earlier I showed a pic of a pretty woman attacked and permanently disfigured by a Pit "who'd never displayed any aggression".  The owner wasn't charged with a crime.  Do that to a woman jogging past your house with a chainsaw and you'll get life in the Big House.  All I say is if these tiny-dick COWARDS want to house and feed such an animal, let them be criminally responsible for what it does if it gets loose.


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## depotoo (Jul 22, 2014)

I could easily post more showing attacks.  We will have to agree to disagree on this topic.  The breed is volatile.  And for anyone to have it around children is not thinking of the children.   And as I said before in this thread, I hope you never have to live to see yourself or anyone you know attacked.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> The chumps who own these murderous beasts never get what they got coming when one goes off on somebody.   Earlier I showed a pic of a pretty woman attacked and permanently disfigured by a Pit "who'd never displayed any aggression".  The owner wasn't charged with a crime.  Do that to a woman jogging past your house with a chainsaw and you'll let life in the Big House.  All I say is if these tiny-dick COWARDS want to house and feed such an animal, let them be criminally responsible for what it does if it gets loose.



Yes,  owners should be held criminally responsible for vicious dog attacks.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Dog kills Quebec newborn - News - MSN CA

A Husky killed this child.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



There is no way to know how many of any dog there is in the US. It is an estimate that is made about all dog breeds, all cats, all cattle, etc. Stop trying to pretend it is stupid to quote the statiistic.  You are intellectually dishonest.

Genetic testing can be done.  Every dog that is identified as a pit bull would then be sterilzed. To hide your pit bull from authorities would be a crime. They need to be made extinct.  You can defend them  until your last breath: it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of dog attacks that end in death are done by pit bulls.  It doesn't change the fact they are vicious and deadly.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

depotoo said:


> I could easily post more showing attacks.  We will have to agree to disagree on this topic.  The breed is volatile.  And for anyone to have it around children is not thinking of the children.   And as I said before in this thread, I hope you never have to live to see yourself or anyone you know attacked.




Any dog can be volatile. You can post as much as you want to but you cant prove the dogs are pit bulls.  You dont have to hope. Ive raised 3 kids with pit bulls. 1 has saved my oldest from serious injury from another dog breed and another nailed someone breaking into my home when I was not there. The thing is that all of them would give their lives to protect my children.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

In looking at fatal dog attacks, I found mention in a few places (no link) of a dachshund killing an infant.  I know that dachshunds show far more aggression than pits do.

Also, the CDC recommends that infants and small children never be left alone with any breed.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Dog kills Quebec newborn - News - MSN CA
> 
> A Husky killed this child.



You are pathetic.


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## TrainTime (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Dog kills Quebec newborn - News - MSN CA
> 
> A Husky killed this child.



So what?  You've seen the statistics and the percentage of which breed is involved in the majority of fatal attacks.  Nobody is denying other breeds are also dangerous.  I was on  a L.R.R.P. team in the RVN.  We took a K9 on certain ops to silence the odd sentry.  I doubt anybody in this thread has seen a fatal dog attack.  I've seen 3 or 4 and there is nothing cool about it....a 110 pound German Shepherd hitting a 130 pound Vietnamese in the throat is ugly.  And quick.   Fact of the matter is, the Pit ENJOYS fighting....they wag their tails while they're attacking.  You can disavow what they can become in the blink of an eye all day long...it means nothing to those attacked and those who've had to bury a loved one for no reason other than some punk wanted to intimidate those around him.  I'd agree with sterilizing every adult Pit in the world to wipe them out....but it will never happen.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



Yes, it is an estimation concerning how many dogs and how many of those are a certain breed.  And given how common it is for pits to be blamed for the actions of other breeds, that guess is ridiculous.

You posted the statistic as fact, when there is no way to determine how many pits there are in the US or even how many dogs there are.  THAT is intellectually dishonest.

Someone posted an article with the headline proclaiming that a pit killed a child.  But within their own article the news people ignored the fact that an American Staffordshire lived there.  That provides far more evidence towards my point than your "guesstimated" statistics do.  And the fact that you continue to defend those stats shows even more intellectual dishonesty.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Dog kills Quebec newborn - News - MSN CA
> ...



So says the person who wants invented statistics to count.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Dog kills Quebec newborn - News - MSN CA
> ...



Youre and idiot as well as a liar. Pull you head out of your ass chump. The majority of Pits like fighting other dogs not killing humans. From what I've seen they only like to fight once they get into one. After that they will look to fight. German Shepherds, though originally bred for sheep herding, are guard dogs. They and certain other dogs are meant to attack humans. Your story would be more believable if the police used pits instead of other breeds of dogs.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Dog kills Quebec newborn - News - MSN CA
> ...



Considering how often the dogs identified as pits turn out to be other breeds, no I am not going to join in the frenzy based on bad science and poor research.

I have seen statistics that could only be accurate if the indentification was solid and there was some way to know how many dogs (and how many are pits) live in the US.

But if we allow "guesses" for numbers, I would hazard a guess that there are tens of thousands of pitbulls in the US.  Shall we say 50,000? This would, of course, include the many, many pits that have been trained to fight.   

And yet there are between 12 and 16 fatal dog attacks annually.  If there are 50k pits in the US and all the fatal dog attacks were by pits, then between 0.032% and 0.024% of pits have been involved in a fatality.  Wow, what horrific numbers.


No infant or toddler should EVER be left alone with a dog.  There is not a breed out there that is incapable of attacking, if the proper stimulus is applied.  

Prosecute those who train pits to fight and prosecute parents who leave their children alone with dogs.


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## TrainTime (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Uh huh.....we're all in a CONSPIRACY to deprive you of your killer on a leash, right?    The figures are in.  Responsible communities are saying enough is enough and demanding the breed be banned.   I'm not for banning anything because I disagree with it.   That's why I'm no "progressive".  And I know banning something always results in a black market for it.  And not all Pits are vicious, but each one can be and that's the issue.   They're a breed you simply can't trust.  There are other breeds like that....most of the German breeds in particular.  I wouldn't trust a Rotty around a stranger...or a Dobie.  Why do folks want these breeds around?  Hell, buy a pistol and train with it.  That way in the law's eyes you've taken responsibility for your safety instead of the coward's way out.


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## TrainTime (Jul 22, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> TrainTime said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Ah, the ugly white boy pops up again with his usual bullshit on every topic discussed in USMB....no time for you today, Snowflake.   Go pretend you're a brotha someplace else....this thread is for real people.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > TrainTime said:
> ...



Why don't the police and military use Pits if they are so ferocious?  Cant answer that can you?


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



What figures??    The ones reported by the media?  Even the CDC has said those are unreliable.

Pick the Pit - Can you find the Pitbull?

There is some actual information that stays away from the emotional frenzy.

And I have never expected a dog to provide for my household's safety.  I do that.  Having them as an alarm system works well, and even for keeping coyote away (when I lived in a very rural setting).


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## TrainTime (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> TrainTime said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



I'm retired from ADT...you got the alarm system part right except Bruiser can't call the cops or fire dept.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > TrainTime said:
> ...



As long as they let me know, I will handle the rest.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 22, 2014)

Noomi said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > I agree. It's like saying you can keep a bomb in your house and as long as you treat it properly, there is no problem, but if something goes wrong k-boom and someone is dead or seriously injured.  The love of pitbulls is completely irrational.  The breed needs to be made extinct.
> ...



Because they are not people. You can't 'reason' with them. They are a very dangerous breed. The numbers don't lie.


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## BobPlumb (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> TrainTime said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



I got it on the first pick, mainly because I used to watch The Dog Whisper.  Caesar has a pitt bull that he uses to help dogs socialize with other dogs.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > TrainTime said:
> ...


  Bruiser wont need to. His only job is to alert and let the 12 gauge do the rest if there is anything left.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



What numbers?   The ones that rely on the news media to report only the facts?  The ones that rely on untrained witnesses who claim it was a pitbull when it was, in fact, one of the dozen or so breeds that may happen to look sorta like a pit?

Someone posted a link to a story about a pitbull that killed a child.  The headlines screamed out that it was a pit.  Then halfway through the article they mention that a registered American Staffordshire lived there.  Funny that the reporter had the info, but still they insisted that it was a vicious pitbull.


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## hazlnut (Jul 22, 2014)

Pit bulls, like any dog, will release with a hard punch to the throat.

Crush their ears, pinch their neck or ass hard - that tells them you're the alpha dog.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

BobPlumb said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > TrainTime said:
> ...



But the overwhelming majority of people, if they saw an attck, would be quick to name the other dogs pictured as "pitbulls".   And the media will report it as a pit, even when they have information saying otherwise.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

BobPlumb said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > TrainTime said:
> ...



Those are just the ones that are purebreds. There are probably thousands of mix breed dogs that are called pit bulls all the time.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

hazlnut said:


> Pit bulls, like any dog, will release with a hard punch to the throat.
> 
> Crush their ears, pinch their neck or ass hard - that tells them you're the alpha dog.



According to the expert training I once received, grab and hurt a dog's feet.  If you are not the one being attacked, grab the dogs back feet and pull it away, swinging it to keep its face away from you.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> BobPlumb said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



Exactly!


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

hazlnut said:


> Pit bulls, like any dog, will release with a hard punch to the throat.
> 
> Crush their ears, pinch their neck or ass hard - that tells them you're the alpha dog.



Bad idea. Some react by holding on tighter.  If you have ever had a pit on your bare arm you would be in too much pain to do that.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> hazlnut said:
> 
> 
> > Pit bulls, like any dog, will release with a hard punch to the throat.
> ...



While it would be better to have the dog clamp down on your arm than on your throat, the arm will be useless.   Watch a decent size dog crunch a bone, then consider the size of the bones in your forearm.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > BobPlumb said:
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Here is another breed that was not in the photos. American Bully.


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## TrainTime (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> As long as they let me know, I will handle the rest.



If you could "handle the rest" you'd have a beagle...they eat less, are rarely a threat to injure an innocent, and alert as well as a Pit.   Nah, you got a nasty dog because you got doubts about what you can handle.  Not intended as an insult but that's how you'll take it.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > As long as they let me know, I will handle the rest.
> ...



LOL!   No insult at all.   But before you make such accusations, you should find out if I actually own a pitbull.  Wouldn't that make sense?

I had a beagle when I was a kid.   Loud as hell and very head-strong.  Good if you want a rabbit hunting dog, but I don't care for them.

And yes, I can handle the rest.  When I was on the road, my wife (now ex) was capable of handling things.  But having warning is always a good thing.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


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Hey man, Darla Napor would probably argue right with you and be advocating for this extremely dangerous breed, using Pit advocate websites as 'sources'. Herein lies the problem. She is DEAD.

Darla Napora: Pregnant woman dies after being mauled by pet dog in living room | Mail Online







Victim was member of 'Dog Lovers Responsible About Pit Bulls'


Two-year-old pitbull terrier shot after charging at police
 

Husband finds Darla Napora's body drenched in blood
 

Victim suffered dozens of bites to her body and face

A pregnant woman who was mauled to death by one of her pet pit bull terriers belonged to group campaigning to convince people that the animals aren't dangerous, it has emerged.

Darla Napora, 32, was bitten dozens of times and found by her husband Greg covered in blood outstretched on their living room floor in Pacifica, California.

Police say the two-year-old unneutered pit bull believed to be responsible was hovering around the woman, who had major injuries to her upper body and face.

Read this, it is written by doctors who treat these horrible attacks.

Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 22, 2014)

If you are going to love the Pitbull, you need to respect its Nature.

It's as simple as that.

Respecting its Nature means understanding what it's capable of and taking precautions when necessary.  The same goes for many dangerous/ potentially dangerous animals.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


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I have not said that pits never attack.   I have simply argued that many pitbull attacks are other breeds that have been identified in error.

And that same contention works against the paper written by the doctors.  I do not doubt their sincerity and respect what they have done.  But they rely on untrained eyewitnesses and media reports for the number of pitbull attacks, just as the CDC did for their reports.

The main victim of fatal dog attacks is children, especially infants and toddlers.  Infants and toddlers should never be unsupervised with any dog.


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## BobPlumb (Jul 22, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Is it true that a non neutered pit bull will tend to be more dangerous than one that is neutered?  And this is probably true for all breds of dogs?


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

BobPlumb said:


> Bfgrn said:
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I missed the detail that they were not neutered.  That does effect aggression.


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## BobPlumb (Jul 22, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> If you are going to love the Pitbull, you need to respect its Nature.
> 
> It's as simple as that.
> 
> Respecting its Nature means understanding what it's capable of and taking precautions when necessary.  The same goes for many dangerous/ potentially dangerous animals.



Why is your avatar pic croped?  I have a good guess.  I liked it the way it was!


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 22, 2014)

BobPlumb said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
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> 
> > If you are going to love the Pitbull, you need to respect its Nature.
> ...



I just need to discuss with someone that there was no actual nudity and it should be up again.


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## BobPlumb (Jul 22, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> BobPlumb said:
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I guess changing my avatar to the statue of David is not a good idea unless the pic doesn't show his junk.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> BobPlumb said:
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My pit that tried to kill me was neutered. And this woman leg is how my leg looked. My femur was exposed.

When any other dog has a bad day, somebody can get hurt; when a pit bull has a bad day, somebody can get killed. They do NOT stop once they start attacking.








2013 statistics


32 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2013. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 78% (25) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.2
 

Together, pit bulls (25) and rottweilers (1), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 81% of the total recorded deaths in 2013. This same combination accounted for 74% of all fatal attacks during the 9-year period of 2005 to 2013.
 

The breakdown between these two breeds is substantial over this 9-year period. From 2005 to 2013, pit bulls killed 176 Americans, about one citizen every 18.6 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 33, about one citizen every 99.5 days.
 

In the year of 2013, the combination of pit bulls (25), rottweilers (1) and bullmastiffs (2) accounted for 88% of all dog bite-related fatalities. Notably, the two bullmastiff-mixes3 were littermates that inflicted death within a 6-month period.
 

Annual data from 2013 shows that 56% (18) of the fatality victims were children 7-years and younger, and 44% (14) were adults, 25-years and older. Of the total children killed by dogs in 2013, 61% (11) were ages 4-years and younger.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 22, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> TrainTime said:
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I've seen this pick the pit bull thing before. Most of those dogs, almost all of them, are obviously not pit bulls. The one that is a pit bull is a not fully mature animal, a puppy, shown from a side view. How funny. It's purposefully misleading. Truly dishonest. 

If there are any dogs that are mix breeds and part pit bull, they should also be sterilized. The pit bull gene needs to be eliminated from the planet. Already, there are countries that ban these dogs. There will come a time when all countries ban them, except maybe not the US because there are so many people who are irrational about this horrible dog. Just like they are irrational about guns. It's the same thing. They don't care about the damage and death these dogs cause. Even if one person dies because of a pit bull, that is too many. There are over 300 breeds of dogs. We do not need pit bulls.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Of course the witnesses always see the attacking dog posed in the proper position, right?  And only mature dogs attack, right?     lol   

I picked the right dog, as did BobPlumb.  Perhaps knowledge of the breed helps?

As for "Most of those dogs, almost all of them, are obviously not pit bulls", you are wrong.  Dogo Argentinos, Cane Corsos, American Bulldogs, Alapaha Blue Bloods (somewhat rare), and Presa Canarios have all been mistakenly called pitbulls.

What we don't need is someone who will state "You will be singing another turn when it, for no reason, goes berserk one day and tears off the face of one of your grandchildren", as if it is a fact that the dog will go berserk one day.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 22, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


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I did not say that neutering removes all aggression.  I simply stated that not being neutered does effect aggression.


Once again, I question the way in which they get the percentage of dogs being pitbulls.  The link you gave refers back to another paper.  Which obtained it's "guess" as to the percentages through a unique method.

"The &#8216;%/dogs&#8221; column states the percentage of each breed of dog among 168,534 classified ads listing dogs for sale and adoption at web sites during June 2013, screened to eliminate duplicates. "

Classified ads used to determine how what percentage of dogs in the US are pitbulls?   

And yes, a greater majority of the victims are children.  The parents should not have left the small children unsupervised with any dog.


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## Wake (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> If they are so safe, why is it that every time we hear about a toddler being mauled to death, a pit bull is always involved?



*I feel that's not accurate, for different reasons.* The first reason is when you mention "every time we hear about a toddler being mauled...," and I'd like to take some time explaining it with you. The media and people in general are under the false impression that it is usually pit bulls that do the mauling. Rarely do they mention when Labradors maul or kill toddlers.  In this story a Labrador mauled a toddler, and bit another child the previous week. Another story entails a Labrador that killed a 2-month-old child, and ripped its legs off, killing it. Also, if you check this link, you'll find that it's not just pitbulls who attack and kill, but many kinds. *Even the little Daschund has killed.* A 6-year-old daschund chewed off the legs of a 2-week-old infant; it was described in the Wiki page and cited here that it was well-behaved by neighbors and friends. Pit bulls have been maligned by vicious rumors and lies, including the falsehood that their jaws lock.

You cannot castigate a whole breed for the actions of some. If you can, then let's kill all breeds that have taken lives.

In summary, a pit bull is not always involved when a toddler is mauled to death. If you say that is not true, then you are calling Wikipedia, and the family members of the deceased... all liars.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 22, 2014)

When any other dog has a bad day, somebody can get hurt; when a pit bull has a bad day, somebody can get killed or maimed. Pit bulls don't 'bite', they attack.

By 1993 pit bulls kept as pets, exclusive of dogs trained to fight, already accounted for more than half of all life-threatening dog attacks. Rottweilers accounted for 20%. Over the past decade the number of life-threatening pit bull attacks was up 789%; attacks on children were up 876%; attacks on adults were up 490%; fatalities were up 388%; and maimings were up 1269%. The percentage of total life-threatening dog attacks committed by pit bulls did not go up only because the number of life-threatening Rottweiler attacks leaped 2000%; attacks on children were up 1000%; attacks on adults were up 1700%; fatalies were up 2500%; and maimings were up 2500%. Rottweilers now account for 25% of all life-threateningdog attacks.

No other common breeds present an even remotely comparable actuarial risk factor. Yet among all the major U.S. animal advocacy groups, only PETA has favored a breed-specific approach to dog regulation.

The list for why pitbulls are dangerous, in numbers:

*$92.7 million*  Dog bite claims totaled $92.7 million for 2,400 claims in California (Insurance Information Institute, 2011). Source.
$500,000  The typical cost of settlements in attacks  by pit bulls and Rottweilers causing death or serious injury is an average of a half million dollars. The amount of $29,396 was the average cost of a dog bite case in 2011. Source.

*3000 %* -  Pit bulls and Rottweilers do three times more killing and maiming than all other dogs combined, meaning that their actuarial risk is approximately 3000% higher than that of the average dog. Source.

*2,500*  More than 2,500 times higher risk of killing than Labradors. Source.

*789%*  Over the past decade, there was an increase of 789% in the number of life-threatening pit bull attacks (attacks on children were up 876%; attacks on adults were up 490%; fatalities were up 388%; and maimings were up 1269%.). Source.

*66%  80%*   Over 2/3 (66%  80%) of the pit bulls who end up at the shelter are surrendered by their owners. Source.

*65%*  Pit bulls are responsible for 65 percent of all fatal dog attacks nationally. Source.

*58%*  Fifty eight percent of dogs euthanized at shelters are pit bull types.

*44%*  Forty four percent of Seeing Eye teams have reported being attacked by other dogs.  Source.

*25%*  A fourth of all dog bite claims were by due to pit bull bites. Source.

*14*  Every fourteen days, someone in the U.S. is killed by a pit bull.

*14*  Pitbuls are fourteen times more likely to escape their confines.  Source.

*11th*  Eleventh in popularity  *American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers and Staffordshire Bull Terriers, ranked 11th in popularity among 16 AKC-registered breeds and had by far the highest risk of killing  more than 2,500 times higher than Labs. Source.

*9*  Owners of dangerous breeds are more than 9 times more likely to have been convicted for a crime involving children and more than Source.

*8*  Eight times more likely to have been charged with drug crimes than owners of low-risked licensed dogs.  Source.

*6*  Six times more likely to kill their owners. Source.

*5.4*  Every 5.4. days, a body part is severed and lost in a pit bull attack . Source.

*3*  Owners of dangerous dogs are more than three times more likely to have been convicted of domestic abuse. Source.

*1/3* of all home insurance claims are dog bites (25% of them, pit bull bites). Source.

*3*  It is estimated that pit bull type dogs represent 3% of the total population of dogs in the U.S.A.. Source.

*1* -  The Leading biters in 25 states. Source.

*1*  The Leading biters, nationally. Source.

*1* -  Leading in deaths and serious disfigurements and maimings.  Source.

 (U.S. statistics only)

So, is there any way a decent person would deny that Pitbulls ARE dangerous dogs? No, there isnt.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 22, 2014)

Quick statistics :


In the 8-year period from 2005 to 2012, two dog breeds accounted for 73% of the attacks that resulted in death: pit bulls and rottweilers.


71% of the pit bull fatalities have occurred in the past 10 years; 42% in the past four years; 24% in the past two years.


Over 600 U.S. cities have adopted breed-specific laws since the mid 1980s, just after pit bulls (fighting dogs) began leaking into the general population.


By 2016, pit bulls are projected to maul 275 Americans to death since 1998, the year the CDC stopped tracking fatal dog attacks by breed.


In the 8-year period from 2005 to 2012, pit bulls killed 151 Americans, about one citizen every 19 days.


In 2012, roughly one-third, 32%, of all dog bite fatality victims were either visiting or living temporarily with the dog's owner when the fatal attack occurred.


In the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008, 18% of all fatal dog attacks occurred off owner property. Pit bulls were responsible for 81% of these attacks.


In the first eight months of 2011, nearly half of the persons killed by a pit bull was the dog's owner and primary caretaker.


Over 30 countries across the world regulate dangerous dog breeds with breed-specific laws including: France, Norway, Spain, Portugal and Great Britain.


In 2011, adult victims of fatal pit bull attacks more than doubled the number of child victims.


A study published in 2010 showed there were 4 times as many dog bite-related ED visits and 3 times as many hospital stays in rural areas than in urban areas.


Pit bull terriers were selectively bred for a violent activity that is now a felony in all 50 U.S. states: dogfighting.


Over 260 U.S. military bases governed by the U.S. Air Force, Air Force Space Command, U.S. Army, U.S. Marine Corps and Navy regulate dangerous dog breeds.


Dog attack victims suffer over $1 billion in monetary losses annually. JAMA reports this estimate to be as high as $2 billion.


A 2010 study showed that the average cost of a dog bite-related hospital stay was $18,200, about 50% higher than the average injury-related hospital stay.


Dog bites occur every 75 seconds in the United States. Each day, over 1,000 citizens need emergency medical care to treat these injuries.


Dog bites are the fifth highest reason why children seek emergency room treatment due to activities they voluntarily engage in, such as playing sports.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 22, 2014)

Are Pit Bulls Really Dangerous?






Police in Nassau County, N.Y., are searching door-to-door for two pit bulls that went on a bloody rampage, attacking a teenage boy and three women during a 30-minute period Wednesday (Feb. 13).

"One literally went for my leg and [the] other was trying to jump on top of me, but I was hitting them, and I was punching them," Janelle Manning, 24, told CBS New York. "They both weren't letting go, once they got a hold of my leg."

Because of her leg injuries, Manning now struggles to walk up and down stairs, CBS reports. "These dogs were, like, trained to kill; trained to hurt and viciously attack people," she said.

*But do pit bulls deserve their reputation as vicious "attack" dogs? An overwhelming amount of evidence suggests they do.*

A five-year review of dog-bite injuries from the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, published in 2009 in the journal Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, found that almost 51 percent of the attacks were from pit bulls, almost 9 percent were from Rottweilers and 6 percent were from mixes of those two breeds.

In other words, a whopping two-thirds of the hospital's dog-attack injuries involved just two breeds, pit bulls and Rottweilers.

Other studies confirm these statistics: A 15-year study published in 2009 in the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology revealed that pit bulls, Rottweilers and German shepherds were responsible for the majority of fatal dog attacks in the state of Kentucky. [See What Your Dog's Breed Says About You]

And a 2011 study from the Annals of Surgery revealed that "attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs."

The authors of that 2011 study go on to say, "Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the U.S. mortality rates related to dog bites."

* Paying the price for pit bulls*

As a result of the overwhelming evidence against pit bulls, home owners and landlords often must pay significantly higher insurance premiums if they have a pit bull or other recognized "bad dog" breed on their property. [Infographic: Dog Bite Incidents]

Fans of pit bulls are quick to assert that a dog's propensity for attack depends in large part on its owner and how it is raised, and there's considerable evidence that owners of pit bulls and other high-risk dogs are themselves high-risk people.

*A 2006 study from the Journal of Interpersonal Violence revealed that owners of vicious dogs were significantly more likely to have criminal convictions for aggressive crimes, drugs, alcohol, domestic violence, crimes involving children and firearms.*

These findings were confirmed in a 2009 report published in the Journal of Forensic Sciences. The authors of that report wrote, "Vicious dog owners reported significantly more criminal behaviors than other dog owners," and they were ranked "higher in sensation seeking and primary psychopathy."

And a 2011 study, also in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, found that "vicious dog owners reported significantly higher criminal thinking, entitlement, sentimentality and super-optimism tendencies. Vicious dog owners were arrested, engaged in physical fights, and used marijuana significantly more than other dog owners."

Are Pit Bulls Dangerous | Dog Bite Statistics | LiveScience


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> TrainTime said:
> 
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> > Asclepias said:
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They dont use them because they are dangerous and unpredictable. You used the military as an example of a group that should know what theyre doing, so im assuming you now agree that putbulls are dangerous, right?


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


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The reason they don't use them is because its harder to train them to attack humans and public perception. Ask a K-9 cop.  No where does it say in the description of the breed that they are dangerous and unpredictable. I think I will trust my experience and experts over yours.

United Kennel Club: American Pit Bull Terrier



> The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children.* Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog.* The breed&#8217;s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. *The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers.* *Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable.* This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

They use those K9 units primarilly for bomb sniffing. They arent sicking dogs on people on battlefields.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> They use those K9 units primarilly for bomb sniffing. They arent sicking dogs on people on battlefields.



Yes they do that too if that's what their primary job is dummy. I didnt know tracking and apprehending criminals was bomb sniffing.  You cant be that stupid and still breath correctly.

Police K-9 found dead after shootout in SW Portland - KPTV - FOX 12


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
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> > They use those K9 units primarilly for bomb sniffing. They arent sicking dogs on people on battlefields.
> ...



That isnt their primary job you dolt. Furthermore, why are you posting a story about a civilian K9 unit? How fucking dumb are you?

The military isnt buying attack dogs, and even if they were, they wouldnt buy unpredicable pitbulls. Get a clue.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


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You cant be this stupid can you? If they want bomb sniffing dogs that's what they train them for. If they want dogs that apprehend people (military or civilian) that's what they train them for.  Stop embarrassing yourself dumb ass. 

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsAdb-7v8nI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsAdb-7v8nI[/ame]


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## Bfgrn (Jul 22, 2014)

U.S. Marine Corps Bans Pit Bulls and Other Breeds; Policy Affects All Privatized Housing
Marine Corps Pet Policy

Virginia - Following the April action of Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, which banned pit bulls, rottweilers, wolf hybrids and their mixes from base housing and prohibited visitors from bringing them onto base, the U.S. Marine Corps recently adopted the same policy for all U.S. and overseas Marine Corps installations.

U.S. Marine Corps Bans Pit Bulls and Other Breeds; Policy Affects All Privatized Housing

U.S. Army Adopts Breed Restriction Policy for RCI Privatized Housing

Pet Policy Adopted for RCI Privatized Housing
In January, the U.S. Army standardized its pet policy, banning breeds deemed "aggressive or potentially aggressive." The breeds (and their mixes) include: pit bulls, American staffordshire terriers, bull terriers, rottweilers, doberman pinschers, chows, wolf hybrids and any others that display a dominant or aggressive behavior. The U.S. Army enacted the new policy to prevent pet owners from encountering uneven policies when moving between installations.

U.S. Army Adopts Breed Restriction Policy for RCI Privatized Housing


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## Godboy (Jul 22, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> U.S. Marine Corps Bans Pit Bulls and Other Breeds; Policy Affects All Privatized Housing
> Marine Corps Pet Policy
> 
> Virginia - Following the April action of Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune, which banned pit bulls, rottweilers, wolf hybrids and their mixes from base housing and prohibited visitors from bringing them onto base, the U.S. Marine Corps recently adopted the same policy for all U.S. and overseas Marine Corps installations.
> ...



Hahahahahaha!!!!!!! Asslips, you put your foot in your mouth more than anyone ive ever met. I cant wait to see how you try to worm out of this one. This article is saying literally the exact opposite of what you claimed.


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## Asclepias (Jul 22, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Bfgrn said:
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> > U.S. Marine Corps Bans Pit Bulls and Other Breeds; Policy Affects All Privatized Housing
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You are getting desperate. 

What was it I claimed?

This is from a politician.  Politicians make a lot of decisions based on career objectives not common sense. When I was in the military things would come down from politicians all the time that had us shaking our heads in amazement.  Basically they are saying "Look we hate pit bulls too"  Look for the guy in the memo to be in the political arena in a few years if he is not already.


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
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You claimed... "The reason they don't use them is because its harder to train them to attack humans"

The real answer is the exact opposite. They attack humans FAR TOO OFTEN, that's why they don't use them.


As for the rest of the nonsense in your post, you've been wrong about EVERYTHING so far, so why would you expect us to assume you have any fucking insight into why the military doesn't use pit bulls? You think a politician is responsible for this military regulation? Based on what? Where did you come up with this idea? Did you think you could get away with making up a bunch of bullshit and not be called out on it? Think again loser.


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## Politico (Jul 23, 2014)

Tank said:


> Pit Bulls are the dogs that attack humans the most, so I guess Pit Bulls must have the worst owners?



That may be more true than you would believe.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 23, 2014)

If you don't like Pitbulls... don't own one.  I can't blame you.  But when others choose to keep one, don't hate on them, because I can't blame these people either.  Pitbulls are awesome dogs and can make great pets.  But they can be potentially dangerous animals, especially to the irresponsible.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 23, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> If you don't like Pitbulls... don't own one.  I can't blame you.  But when others choose to keep one, don't hate on them, because I can't blame these people either.  Pitbulls are awesome dogs and can make great pets.  But *they can be potentially dangerous animals*, especially to the irresponsible.



Why would I like someone and not blame them for owning a vicious "potentially dangerous animal"?  The animal isn't just potentially dangerous to the owner, it is dangerous to anyone who is anywhere near it -- to family, to neighbors, to people it encounters in parks or on walks.  It is dangerous to other animals, primarily in urban areas, to dogs and cats. Why should my pet be put at risk because some numbskull wants to own a vicious, potentially dangerous animal that cannot be controlled?   Why should I rely on the responsibility of the owner to train and control the dog in the necessary way so it isn't "potentially dangerous"?  For the very most part, pit bull owners do not have the ability, knowledge, understanding or motivation to keep these dogs in check and eliminate the danger to themselves or the community.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 23, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't like Pitbulls... don't own one.  I can't blame you.  But when others choose to keep one, don't hate on them, because I can't blame these people either.  Pitbulls are awesome dogs and can make great pets.  But *they can be potentially dangerous animals*, especially to the irresponsible.
> ...



Every single human being is a "potentially dangerous" animal.  Every single one.  Yet you do not hate every single human being, or the ones who raise them.  

Or do you?  

If you are hating on people *because of the dogs they own*, you are likely hating on others because of their religious views, or their sexual preferences, or because they own firearms, or their position on the Law.... Etc etc etc etc

Hate hate hate hate hate.  It is as if people such as yourself just *love to hate*.

All that hate adds up. If you knew anything about _karma, cause and effect, law of attraction_, etc... than you would know that hating all the time is not beneficial to you at all.

That is not the kind of hate that you harness and turn into something strong.  It is the kind if hate that eats away at you and makes you weak.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 23, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Esmeralda said:
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I never said anything about hating anyone: that was your word. However, I certainly do not respect anyone who would keep a vicisous, potentially dangerous animal.  

You are almost not even worth responding to. You don't seem to be able to think rationally at all, accusing me of hating people, all kinds of people, because I don't want pit bulls in the community.  Dogs like pit bulls are not suitable for civilized society.  Period.  Accusing me of hating people for all kinds of things like religion or gender: that's absolutely ludicrous and a very, very flawed and false analogy.  A huge stretch, far outside the boundaries of reason.  And, again, hate is your word: it was never mine.

Perhaps you are projecting: perhaps it is you who is full of hate.

I think you are 'off.'  I don't engage in discussion with people who cannot even think or post with reason, so don't expect me to respond to you any further.

Oh, and btw, stating that every human being is a potentially dangerous animal is again a very flawed and false anology. We are not talking about humans; we are talking about dogs.


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## Rocko (Jul 23, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Wake said:
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> > Bears and tigers are wild animals.
> ...



Because pits can be dangerous when not raised properly. What about all the pit bulls that are great pets and never have any incidents?


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## Noomi (Jul 23, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
> 
> 
> > If you don't like Pitbulls... don't own one.  I can't blame you.  But when others choose to keep one, don't hate on them, because I can't blame these people either.  Pitbulls are awesome dogs and can make great pets.  But *they can be potentially dangerous animals*, especially to the irresponsible.
> ...



The problem is that you assume all pit bulls are dangerous. That is far from the truth. If you encounter ten pit bulls, are all of them automatically dangerous?

Don't judge the breed.


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2014)

Rocko said:


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Weve seen countless examples where they were raised properly, yet they still attack people.


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## Noomi (Jul 23, 2014)

Godboy said:


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And everyone who is attacked by a dog will always claim they did nothing to provoke the attack. There is ALWAYS a reason why a dog attacks.


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## Rocko (Jul 23, 2014)

Noomi said:


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Exactly. Dogs are different from people in that wether they are balanced or not is strictly dependent on how they raised. There are no cases where a dog is trained properly, nourished properly and loved properly where the dog becomes unbalanced. With humans it's nature and nurture. Dogs are much more simple, it's all how they are raised.


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## Noomi (Jul 23, 2014)

Rocko said:


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Often when a child is reported to be attacked by a dog, I wonder if that child was pulling the dogs ears, or sticking his fingers in its eyes.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 23, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Bfgrn said:
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> > U.S. Marine Corps Bans Pit Bulls and Other Breeds; Policy Affects All Privatized Housing
> ...



Do you need an adult to decipher for you? WHAT don't you understand about the U.S. Marine Corps *Bans Pit Bulls* and Other Breeds; Policy Affects All Privatized Housing?


ban
verb

1) to prohibit, forbid, or bar; interdict


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## Esmeralda (Jul 23, 2014)

Noomi said:


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Yes. They are very dangerous dogs.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 23, 2014)

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It is truly unbelievable that anyone would blame the child.  If a dog is potentially dangerous to a child, it certainly should not be anywhere near one, supervised or unsupervised.  These dogs are unpredictable. And, different from other dogs, when they attack, they cause immense damage and death.  It is just incomprehensible that anyone would defend these animals.

It's like, for some, you take it personally. It isn't personal: it's practical.  I won't go anywhere near them. I wouldn't go to someone's house that had one; I certainly would not allow a small child or elderly adult anywhere near one. I don't blame the individual dog per se: it is not the dog's fault that this mentality is part of its make up.  But it is the reality, and we need to stop breeding these dogs and get rid of the pit bull gene entirely.
There is no reason to have pit bulls among us.  Again, there are over 300+ breeds of dogs: choose another breed.  How difficult is that?


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## WinterBorn (Jul 23, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


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Why is it unbelievable that someone would blame the child?  Have you ever been around a toddler?   I raised 3 great children into 3 great adults.   When they were very small, all 3 of them slapped my face, poked my eyes, pulled my ears and my beard.  I knew it was playfully done.  But any dog could be provoked into attacking by such actions.   It has been said over and over that certain dogs attack without provocation.  With small children you can expect provocation.

That is why no infant or toddler should be left alone with any dog.


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## Asclepias (Jul 23, 2014)

Godboy said:


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You must have missed it. The article had nothing to do with why they dont use the dogs in battle. Please post a quote from the article stating that.  Like I said before you are desperate. I know I kick your ass intellectually all the time but you have to come up with a better pseudo victory for you to get excited about.


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## Esmeralda (Jul 23, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


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OMG! You guys just don't get it. A small child should not be around pit bulls. That is the topic of this thread.  Why? Because a child is less able or unable to fend off such an attack and because the behavior of a child may set off a pit bull, and when a pit bull is set off, it goes berserk and either does horrendous damage or kills the child.  

Your post is like you are choosing the dog over the child.  What kind of parent, what kind of sane individual would do that?  If you have a dog, any dog, though pit bulls are the worst, which will go berserk and kill a child, why would you blame the child?  Are humans of less value to you than your fucking pit bull?  Unbelievable.  Do you feel the toddler is the one responsible to be &#8216;trained&#8217; how to behave around the dog?  Unbelievable.

And by the way, pit bulls also attack adults.  It is just that when they attack children or the elderly, those less able to fend them off, the victim tends to die.  It doesn't take much to set a pit bull off: it is just that it is unpredictable--you never know when it will suddenly go berserk, and when it does it is murderous.


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## Asclepias (Jul 23, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


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Children often times do things to provoke dogs.  They pull ears and poke dogs in the eyes and eat food right at the dogs level of access. That was the reason I got a pit bull. They tolerate a lot of abuse from kids.  Kids screaming at the top of their lungs can set a dog off.  All the pits I had took it in stride.  My kids could make my dogs stop in the middle of eating their food simply by putting their hands in their bowls.  Dogs are pack animals. As long as your dog understands its place in the pack it will submit. That place should be at the bottom. In the absence of you assigning the dog a place in the pack the dog will assert that he is the leader. Thats when you have issues. I am of the opinion that a pit in particular should never show annoyance or aggression with a child. If I had one that did I would put it down.


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## Darkwind (Jul 23, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...


This proves nothing. Any dog can suddenly turn and attack.  Even a Labrador.

Pit Bulls are very gentle and very intelligent dogs.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 23, 2014)

Esmeralda said:


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I have said nothing that could even be vaguely construed as choosing a dog over my child.

Oh, and you posted:"...and because the behavior of a child may set off a pit bull".   How dae you blame the victim!!!!   lmao 

Because what you said is the same as what I had said when you exploded and accused me of blaming the victim.


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2014)

Noomi said:


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Just a few weeks ago we all saw that video of a cat that saves a boy who is being mauled by a dog. Tell me, what did that boy do to provoke the attack? Thats right, he did NOTHING to provoke that attack! 

Is this the kind of stupid shit we can expect from all your posts?


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## WinterBorn (Jul 23, 2014)

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Unless the dog has never been around people, and the first time he is he attacks every person he sees, there is some other stimuli at work to prompt the attack.  

That does not mean it is the victim's fault.  The dog may misinterpret an action.  It may be a smell.  But dogs rarely attack for absolutely no reason.


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


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Go watch the video and get back to me. That kid did nothing to deserve being attacked by the neighbors dog. Dogs DO attack for no reason sometimes, pitbulls in particular.


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2014)

What about the woman jogger with the tore up legs? What did SHE do that caused that dog to attack? Did she "pull on its ears"?


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## WinterBorn (Jul 23, 2014)

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I believe I have seen the video.    And no, they do not attack for no reason.   Because the reason is not obvious in a short video does not mean the reason does not exist.

It may have something to do with the way the dog was raised, or trained, treated by another child, or even something as simple as the dog seeing the child as easy prey (all dogs are predators).  But to claim there is no reason is to ignore the facts of biology and animal behavior.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 23, 2014)

Godboy said:


> What about the woman jogger with the tore up legs? What did SHE do that caused that dog to attack? Did she "pull on its ears"?



As I have said before, because we do not know the reason does not mean there was no reason.


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Godboy said:
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> > What about the woman jogger with the tore up legs? What did SHE do that caused that dog to attack? Did she "pull on its ears"?
> ...



Just because you arent aware of the reason, doesnt mean there was ever a reason at all.


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## Rocko (Jul 23, 2014)

The problem with pit bulls is there are plenty of bad owners out there that are not raising their dogs properly. Period. There is not one example of a pit being raised properly that has a violent unprovoked incident. Dogs are simple creatures, unlike humans. You raise them to not be violent and they won't be, without exception.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 23, 2014)

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Dogs are predators and follow basic instincts and training (if applied).  They are also social animals, either within their pack or in general.

Your claims that they attack for no reason simply shows a lack of understanding of animal behavior.  The reasons may not even have anything to do with the victim, but there IS a reason.


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


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BINGO! When we talk about "no reason", this is what we are referring to. That is the problem with pitbulls, because they are good at killing... for no reason. Its a danger that shouldnt be put on the rest of us because some idiot wants a scary dog. I mean that is why 90% of pitbull owners have them, because they are scary. Why are they scary? Because they are notorious for mauling people. They have earned a reuptation for killing people.


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## Yarddog (Jul 23, 2014)

Tank said:


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Not true.  German shepards kill more,  based on population.

Pit Bull Attack Statistics | Defend Pit Bulls

Its easy to look up the stats this is one link.


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## Yarddog (Jul 23, 2014)

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really?  I have my dog you see here because i rescued him as  a stray. he wasnt scary at all.  Go back to the bingo parlor


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## WinterBorn (Jul 23, 2014)

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So when you are talking about "no reason" there actually IS a reason, just not one you want to discuss??

Any wild dog will attack an unsupervised child if it is hungry.   I didn't say starving, just hungry.

If a dog is not trained and socialized, it will attack for one of several reasons, hunger, fear, to show dominance ect.   If I beat a dog daily, then the dog sees a large man with a shaved head and facial hair, the dog is very likely to react to them as though it were me.  

There ARE reasons a dog attacks.   At least you have admitted that.

And given the number of pitbulls around, and the number of serious attacks (however unreliable the identification may be) shows that the overwhelming majority of pitbulls never attack anyone.

Spend your efforts promoting the idea that no small child should EVER be left alone with a dog, and you will save more lives and stop more attacks than this diatribe against a single breed.


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## Yarddog (Jul 23, 2014)

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If pitts are banned, then you have to ban German Shepards, and rotts,  as well as chows.

This dog you see here in my pic...  he doesnt even bark at the mailman.  all he does is play fetch with a ball and go for walks, extremely socialized.  
Of course, because he is a dog I am still extremely cautios with him. he is still a dog.  But i would say MUCH safer than your average ROTT or shepard,


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2014)

Yarddog said:


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Bullshit alert! You are telling lies. Even though pitbulls only make up a small fraction of all dogs, they are responsible for 62% of all mauling deaths. They are incredibly dangerous. Your dog is a ticking time bomb.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 23, 2014)

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The numbers I have seen show between 12 and 16 mauling deaths per year.  That means that between 7.4 and 9.9 pitbulls maul someone to death every year.   You are more likely to be struck by lightning than to be mauled to death by a dog.  And yet, you are trying to claim that every single pitbull is a ticking time bomb.

How many pitbulls are there in the US?   20,000?   So 19,990 pitbulls did not kill anyone.  That is a pretty weak time bomb.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 23, 2014)

Noomi said:


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false...my pit tried to kill me. ALL I did was pick up his leach off the dining room floor.


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## TrainTime (Jul 23, 2014)

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BINGO!  I couldn't remember who posted that in here before....I recall you telling how your Pit just came outta a bag at you....I believe your son pried him off you or you'd have been a goner, right?


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## Yarddog (Jul 23, 2014)

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Its about 5 million


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## Yarddog (Jul 23, 2014)

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Pit Bulls wernt bred to attack people. you can say evry dog with a mouth big enough to maim a person is a time bomb. Rottweilers and Shepherds if abused and chained up also 
are known to maim people and from what ive read at a higher rate than Pitt bulls due to population,  because there sre more pitts.

I know this, I put a lot of work into my dog. Walking, socializing him,  you can come up to him without knowing him and put your arm around his neck. Ive never seen him growl at a person. his only problem is a dominance issue when it comes to other dogs. 
I still watch him extremely closely always watching for any sign of aggression towards people.  I suppose you would just want me to have him put down right?  They are not just mindless animals, I would have to say in most cases there has to be some sort of abuse or neglect in the attacks you see,  such as a dog getting loose who is kept chaned up or confined.


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## Asclepias (Jul 23, 2014)

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What happened prior to that? There were some warning signs along the way. Just guessing but I would bet there were some dominance issues you missed. Dogs dont attack for no reason. There is always a reason.


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## Godboy (Jul 23, 2014)

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What about all the times they maim people? You dont care about the people who had their limbs ripped off, or people like that poor girl who lost her eye? Deaths make up only a small fraction of dog attacks. Dont be naive.


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## Rozman (Jul 23, 2014)

When was the last time anyone here read a story of another breed mauling a child?


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## Noomi (Jul 23, 2014)

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Does he associate the leash with something negative? Had he been hit with it before?


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## Bfgrn (Jul 23, 2014)

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He was never hit with his leash or hit with anything else. It should have been a positive association because he loved going for a walk. I have had dogs for 60 years. I am not a novice dog owner.

Too many people on this thread, including you are ignoring the evidence. Pit bulls are not your average dog. Any dog can bite, but is usually just that...A BITE. Pit bulls don't bite, they attack. It is unrelenting and vicious. Dogs KILLING and maiming human beings should be rare. It happens way too often with pit bulls, even to adults.


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## Yarddog (Jul 23, 2014)

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I dont know what happened with your dog, it seems a very strange story as Pitbulls are suppossed to be one of the most loyal breed to their ownerss.  As for Pit bulls not biting, they attack....  I know my experience with my dog, who I will say is most likely about the most Chill dog I have ever seen when it comes to people. I had been letting my next door
neighbor take my dog for a walk along with his as they were getting along very well. He has some kind of little Terrier maybe 25 lbs and mine is a 59 lb pitbull.  On this particular 
walk for some reason, the two dogs got into it before they got to the end of the block. I heard the commotion and came running but by th etime I got there it had probably been a full minute and people had gathered in the street from the sound of dogs fighting, it did sound bad actually it sounded horrible and i thought my dog was killing his, I slidd to the ground and immediatly grabbed my dog by his jaws as he was holding the terrier by the back of the neck. 
My dog immediately released his grip and my neighbor pulled her away by its leash. Short of the story is,  my dogs grip on the other one was weak, it never even broke the skin and was just holding the other dog there. My neighbor appologized and said it was his that started it .   probably jealousy over the owner.....  needless to say that was the laast time I let them walk together,  but If my Pitt was the mindless bitting machine your talking about the Terrier would have been dead EASILY.  by the way,  my neighbors little dog got out of the yard last year and bit the mailman. They received a warning from the post office that if it gets out again they would have it put down.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 23, 2014)

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Dogs killing and maiming humans IS rare.


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## Asclepias (Jul 23, 2014)

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Why have none of the pit bulls I have owned ever attacked a child...or an adult without provocation?  You are wrong about other dogs. The only dog I think would not make a sustained attack would be golden retriever.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 23, 2014)

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When I was surfing thru a website about fatal dog attacks, I noticed one was a golden retriever.   Hard to imagine, but apparently any dog can be a killer.  There was a fatal dog attack by a dachshund too.  I know they are short, but those little devils can be brutal.


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## Yarddog (Jul 23, 2014)

Pit Bull Saves Two Women From Deadly Cobra, Dies Wagging His Tail - From All Creatures Animal Stories

I guess Pitbulls are like gun owners,  they get all the bad press but none of the good.


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## Yarddog (Jul 23, 2014)

GOOD NEWS: Family pit bull credited for saving boy?s life during house fire | Q13 FOX News



the last link is about a woman saved from an attacker by her Pitt bull.  there are many more cases
but you know,    you wont hear about that. Only about when some mistreated Dog gets loose out of the yard and hurts someone.


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## Asclepias (Jul 23, 2014)

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Yeah I think dachshunds were bred to go after badgers.  They would have a extremely high prey drive.


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## Mertex (Jul 23, 2014)

Pit bulls are known for the high number of incidences where they attack people....many times their owners or other members of the owner's family and especially children.

Pit bulls display characteristics when they attack that differ from all other dog breeds, one of them being their lethal bite.  I would not have one, especially if I had young children.  I don't care how they are raised, some that have been raised in a loving home have been known to turn for no apparent reason.  I would be very scared if one of my neighbors had one.  I would be afraid that it might get loose and attack me while I'm doing my walking/running in the neighborhood.


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## Yarddog (Jul 23, 2014)

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right, considering there are several million of them in the US.  and how many times they have protected their owners from criminals we will never know.  Im sure the same people who would want to take away the right of a person to own a gun would like pittbulls be outlawed as well


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## Asclepias (Jul 23, 2014)

Mertex said:


> Pit bulls are known for the high number of incidences where they attack people....many times their owners or other members of the owner's family and especially children.
> 
> Pit bulls display characteristics when they attack that differ from all other dog breeds, one of them being their lethal bite.  I would not have one, especially if I had young children.  I don't care how they are raised, some that have been raised in a loving home have been known to turn for no apparent reason.  *I would be very scared if one of my neighbors had one.  I would be afraid that it might get loose and attack me while I'm doing my walking/running in the neighborhood.*



You point out something that may be a factor in some of the attacks. Dogs will attack you if they sense fear. I cant figure out exactly why.  When I used to help this guy protection train dogs we trained them to key on behavior. If you acted normal the dog was fine. If you acted suspicious it would trigger the dog.


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## Mertex (Jul 23, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Mertex said:
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> > Pit bulls are known for the high number of incidences where they attack people....many times their owners or other members of the owner's family and especially children.
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Well duh....if a pit bull is loose and coming at me, how am I supposed to conquer my fear knowing what I know about them?


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## Asclepias (Jul 23, 2014)

Mertex said:


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Get educated about them. I know a lot about pits and they don't scare me.  What is it you think you know about them?


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## Unkotare (Jul 23, 2014)

There is no legitimate reason for having a dog where another breed is not a better choice.


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> There is no legitimate reason for having a dog where another breed is not a better choice.



That's pretty much true of almost everything moron. Why would you get second best?

In my case and other pit bull owners there is no better choice than a pit bull.


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## Yarddog (Jul 24, 2014)

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this one is my first pit ever, I am really supprised by how gentle he was,  and when I rescued him was looking for any sign that he was a danger to people,  i was ready to take him to the pound in the begining if he appeared to be agressive.  I found that they need love but also require a lot of discipline so they know that they are answerable to humans. 
I think that maybe the mistake owners make is they either neglect and outright abuse them, or they let the dog become the Alpha and think that they are in charge. I'm absoluteley NOT afraid of this dog because I interact with it on a daily basis. Still though 
Im extremely cautious with him around any children. As much as he has an amazing personality, I always have to remember he is just a dog


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## Tank (Jul 24, 2014)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgcKOg1j31Y]Police shoot, kill pit bulls mauling girl - YouTube[/ame]


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Yarddog said:


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How old was he when you got him? Is he more excited around kids or is he standoffish?  I make it a practice not to get any dog unless its a puppy less than 4 months.  I like to check their temperament when they are young.  They definitely need to know you are the alpha. Due to the amount of damage they can do that is an absolute must that they know who is in charge.


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## Tank (Jul 24, 2014)

I have always loved animals, especially dogs.  I grew up with pet boxers and love them to this day.  Currently, I don&#8217;t have any pets because of allergies and laziness; I like to be able to leave my home without worrying about taking care of animals.

I grow increasingly tired of listening to people trying to defend why Pit Bulls are gentle and non-dangerous.  Here are my thoughts:

Pit Bulls were originally bred as &#8220;catch-dogs&#8221; to hunt down wild cattle and wild hogs
Their jaws are ridiculously strong
Ghetto fabulous assholes have used Pit Bulls as fighting dogs to make money for years (insert Michael Vick jokes here)
Drug dealers, of all races, use Pit Bulls to protect their stash houses
Rednecks use Pit Bulls to hunt hogs and to make themselves feel tougher
White Trash use Pit Bulls to protect their trailers and to accompany their exotic snake collections
Men with small dicks have Pit Bulls because they can&#8217;t afford Corvettes

http://duhmerica.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/794/


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## yidnar (Jul 24, 2014)

they won't admit it but most pit owners like the intimidation and fear factor associated with the breed .


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

In the 9-year period from 2005 to 2013, pit bulls killed 176 Americans and accounted for 62% of the total recorded deaths (283). Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 74% of these deaths.







The FACTS you folks want to ignore

In the 9-year period from 2005 to 2013, two dog breeds accounted for 74% of the attacks that resulted in death: pit bulls and rottweilers.

71% of the pit bull fatalities have occurred in the past 10 years; 42% in the past four years; 24% in the past two years.

Over 700 U.S. cities have adopted breed-specific laws since the mid 1980s, just after pit bulls (fighting dogs) began leaking into the general population.

By 2017, pit bulls are projected to maul 305 Americans to death since 1998, the year the CDC stopped tracking fatal dog attacks by breed.

In the 9-year period from 2005 to 2013, pit bulls killed 176 Americans, about one citizen every 18.6 days.

In 2013, over one-third, 38%, of all dog bite fatality victims were either visiting or living temporarily with the dog's owner when the fatal attack occurred.

In 2012, more than 27,000 people underwent reconstructive surgery as a result of being bitten by dogs.

In the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008, 18% of all fatal dog attacks occurred off owner property. Pit bulls were responsible for 81% of these attacks.

In the first eight months of 2011, nearly half of the persons killed by a pit bull was the dog's owner and primary caretaker.

Over 35 countries across the world regulate dangerous dog breeds with breed-specific laws including: France, Norway, Spain, Portugal and Great Britain.

In 2011, adult victims of fatal pit bull attacks more than doubled the number of child victims.

A study published in 2010 showed there were 4 times as many dog bite-related ED visits and 3 times as many hospital stays in rural areas than in urban areas.

Pit bull terriers were selectively bred for a violent activity that is now a felony in all 50 U.S. states: dogfighting.

Over 290 U.S. military bases governed by the U.S. Air Force, Air Force Space Command, U.S. Army, U.S. Marine Corps and Navy regulate dangerous dog breeds.

Dog attack victims suffer over $1 billion in monetary losses annually. JAMA reports this estimate to be as high as $2 billion.

A 2010 study showed that the average cost of a dog bite-related hospital stay was $18,200, about 50% higher than the average injury-related hospital stay.

Dog bites occur every 75 seconds in the United States. Each day, over 1,000 citizens need emergency medical care to treat these injuries.

Dog bites are the fifth highest reason why children seek emergency room treatment due to activities they voluntarily engage in, such as playing sports.


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## DigitalDrifter (Jul 24, 2014)

Obviously how the dog is raised and handled plays a huge role, but not always.
For instance, I have a dog that is now 12 years old, I got him from a shelter when he was under a year old. I've raised him with love, and he has a wonderful life that only 1% of dogs are fortunate enough to have.
The thing is though, he absolutely goes nuts when he sees another dog. I take him everywhere with me, and if we pass someone walking their dog, or if he spots a dog in another yard, he goes ballistic. I've never seen anything like it. He has destroyed several sets of seat belts, and other items. When he sees a dog, he immediately starts biting at whatever is nearby. I've tried many things including medication, training, even a dog shrink. Nothing has worked, and now that he's an old dog, he's obviously not going to change.

I point this out simply to say, you cannot always count on how a dog is raised to be assured he won't harm someone.
In the case of pitbulls, you have to always keep in mind, that if they do ever go off the rails and attack someone, they have the tools to do a lot of damage.
You as the owner, have to take that liability on whether you like it or not.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> In the 9-year period from 2005 to 2013, pit bulls killed 176 Americans and accounted for 62% of the total recorded deaths (283). Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 74% of these deaths.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Averaging just under 20 deaths per year.    In a population of over 310 million, that is quite rare.  

Should owners be held liable and responsible for their dogs?   Yes.
Should the breed be destroyed and removed?  No.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

2013 fatal dog attacks by breed






2013 victims-1


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 24, 2014)

Are these reports supposed to change my mind?  Make me feel wrong, perhaps?  My opinion remains the same.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

2013 fatal dog attacks by breed






2013 victims-2


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

2013 fatal dog attacks by breed






2013 victims-3



















































http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2013.php


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## Yarddog (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Yarddog said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...




This one was a stray dog, approximately 8 months or so,  hard to tell. No. hes not standoffish around kids, he wags his tail and bobs his head up and down like he wants to play, but he doesnt jump up on people with his paws. This one has an obsession with catching a ball. responds well to voice commands.   still cautious around kids just because though


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 24, 2014)

Pitbulls can be sweet, cuddly dogs


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## earlycuyler (Jul 24, 2014)

Mr. H. said:


> I'll be glad when our dog is dead. He's a mutt with just enough Chow to give him that attitude.
> 
> Pit Bulls are an abomination of canine cross-breading.



Not really. They are a breed that line breeding/cross breeding has destroyed because thugs needed accessories to their baggy pants and bling. All dogs bite. Not just Pitts. And other breeds dont make the news like pits when they do. Matter of fact, many mutts that attack are marked as pit/pit mixes when they are not even close. Pits are awesome dogs. I have hunted hogs with many and my kids grew up with them just like I did. Have yot to have any of us bitten. Way back when in Ireland pitts weren't called pit bulls. They were called "The family dogs".


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## earlycuyler (Jul 24, 2014)

Silhouette said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...



Nope, and calling BS.


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## earlycuyler (Jul 24, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.
> ...



^Manni sock.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 24, 2014)




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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 24, 2014)




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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Are these reports supposed to change my mind?  Make me feel wrong, perhaps?  My opinion remains the same.



They should make you think.


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## earlycuyler (Jul 24, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


>



Beautiful dogs, but percect e xcamples of what has been done to the breed thats all wrong.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > In the 9-year period from 2005 to 2013, pit bulls killed 176 Americans and accounted for 62% of the total recorded deaths (283). Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 74% of these deaths.
> ...



You continue to dismiss. You need to LOOK man. There is a very clear FACT. Pit bulls are a very small percentage of the dog population and a HUGE percentage of fatal and maiming attacks.


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## Skull Pilot (Jul 24, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...



well pit bulls are safe around children.

The question is are children safe around pit bulls?


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## Inevitable (Jul 24, 2014)

Ownership of a dog is the persons responsibility that owns the dog. Like it or not pit bulls have a reputation for being aggressive. This will be taken in account in any litigation.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



I am looking.  I have yet to see any reliable quotes on the number of pits in the US.  I have yet to see any method of identifying dogs who maimed or killed, except untrained witnesses who, as has been shown, are notoriously unreliable.

Are there hazards associated with pitbulls?   Of course there are.  That is true with any number of large breeds.

I see a major issue for the breed as being the large number of dogs bred specifically for fighting.  If you look back before 1975, the number of pitbull attacks were almost nonexistent.  Why is that?   There were pits around then.


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Yarddog said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Yarddog said:
> ...



Sounds like one with a good temperament and good manners.  I don't blame you about being cautious around kids since you cant possibly know what he went through prior to you owning him. Can you put your hand in his bowl while he is eating and make him stop without him showing aggression?


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

earlycuyler said:


> Silhouette said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



War dogs?


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Skull Pilot said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...



I raised 3 kids around them. 1 saved me oldest from a Rottie attack.  I'd say they were safe.


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Pitbulls can be sweet, cuddly dogs



Big babies. Nothing funnier than seeing a 70lb pit trying to get in your lap.


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## Yarddog (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Yarddog said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


.  


Absolutely,   I've even taken food out of his mouth and he just looks at me.  I have a hard time seeing this dog as a killer. The other thing I like about this guy is he's not excessive in licking people,  he just gives a little kiss with his tounge, . He was fixed when I found him, by the way. I'm sure that has a lot to do with temperament.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...



First of all, your reply *"Should owners be held liable and responsible for their dogs?   Yes."* is unacceptable. It is empty rhetoric to the families of these victims, does nothing to prevent these PREVENTABLE tragedies, and ignores a mountain of evidence. 

THINK man. If 93% of all tire failures that caused rollover accidents came for one manufacture, would you:

a) dismiss it like you have decided to do?
b) ban all tires?
c) recall/ban tires from that one manufacturer?

Fatal pit bull attacks sharply rise in 2013

In the first 5 months of 2013, pit bulls inflicted 93 percent of all dog bite fatalities. This is well above the average of 60 percent from 2005 to 2012.

As the pit bull population rises, more human fatalities ensue. During the last eight-year period (1991-98) that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studied fatal attacks by breed, pit bulls were estimated at 1 percent of the U.S. dog population. Pit bulls killed an average of three people per year.

The pit bull population has since grown to 4 percent. During the most recent eight-year period (2005-12), pit bulls killed an average of 19 people per year.

If the current rate of fatalities inflicted by pit bulls continues, *33 Americans will lose their lives to pit bulls by the end of 2013.*

2013 statistics

32 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2013. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 78% (25) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6% of the total U.S. dog population.2

Together, pit bulls (25) and rottweilers (1), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 81% of the total recorded deaths in 2013. This same combination accounted for 74% of all fatal attacks during the 9-year period of 2005 to 2013.

The breakdown between these two breeds is substantial over this 9-year period. From 2005 to 2013, pit bulls killed 176 Americans, about one citizen every 18.6 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 33, about one citizen every 99.5 days.

In the year of 2013, the combination of pit bulls (25), rottweilers (1) and bullmastiffs (2) accounted for 88% of all dog bite-related fatalities. Notably, the two bullmastiff-mixes3 were littermates that inflicted death within a 6-month period.

Myth #1: It's the owner not the breed

The outdated debate, "It's the owner, not the breed," has caused the pit bull problem to grow into a 30-year old problem.1 Designed to protect pit bull breeders and owners, the slogan ignores the genetic history of the breed and blames these horrific maulings -- inflicted by the pit bull's genetic "hold and shake" bite style -- on environmental factors. While environment plays a role in a pit bull's behavior, it is genetics that leaves pit bull victims with permanent and disfiguring injuries.

The pit bull's genetic traits are not in dispute. Many appellate courts agree that pit bulls pose a significant danger to society and can be regulated accordingly. Some of the genetic traits courts have identified include: unpredictability of aggression, tenacity ("gameness" the refusal to give up a fight), high pain tolerance and the pit bull's "hold and shake" bite style.2 *According to forensic medical studies, similar injuries have only been found elsewhere on victims of shark attacks.*3

Perpetuators of this myth also cannot account for the many instances in which pit bull owners and family members are victimized by their pet dogs. From 2005 to 2013, pit bulls killed 176 Americans, about one citizen every 18.6 days. Of these deaths, 52% involved a family member and a household pit bull.4 Notably, in the first 8 months of 2011, nearly half of those killed by a pit bull was its owner. One victim was an "avid supporter" of Bad Rap, a recipient of Michael Vick's dogs.5


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> THINK man. If 93% of all tire failures that caused rollover accidents came for one manufacture, would you:



Where is your proof 93% of attacks are from Pit Bulls?  So far no one has proven that.  Just because you think a dog is a pit doesnt make him one.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > THINK man. If 93% of all tire failures that caused rollover accidents came for one manufacture, would you:
> ...



Myth #2: It's impossible to identify a pit bull

Pit bull advocates frequently claim that the average person cannot correctly identify a pit bull. As discussed in the Pit Bull FAQ, the pit bull is a class of dogs made up of several close dog breeds (See: What is a pit bull?). This false claim is designed to confuse the public just like the breed's history of changing names is intended to do (See: Disguise breed name). As recently told to us by a top U.S. animal control enforcement officer, "If it looks like a pit bull, it usually is."

Pit bull advocates have even created deceptive online tests (Find the Pit Bull) to further confuse the media, policymakers and the public. These tests are inaccurate and intentionally crafted to show that the average person cannot correctly identify a pit bull. DogsBite.org has created a more realistic test that shows a variety of popular dog breeds. Once one begins to understand the frame, posture and distinct head and jaw size of a pit bull, identification is immediate.


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## WinterBorn (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



If one tire manufacturer produced tens of thousands of tires, and there were 30 failures, I would not require the removal and destruction of all of their tires.

And if it is not the owners and breeders, why were there virtually no fatal attcks by pits prior to 1975?


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



You didnt answer my question. You cut and pasted someones opinion. I can tell by how clueless the person is that wrote a pitbull is made up of several breeds. That doesnt even make sense.  How can you prove 93% of the attacks are by APBT's?


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## Wake (Jul 24, 2014)

Good morning everyone.

From my personal experiences, it depends on the pit bull. My mother's fiance owned two pit bulls. One was raised with love as a puppy, and has been nothing short of a silly, loving little kid. The other, who has now passed, was rescued by that man. She had been abused, taught to be extremely aggressive and territorial, and left tied to a tree to die. When he found her, she was nothing but a bag of bones, emaciated. Though she was taught to fear and attack, she took to him as he cared for her, and became incredibly loyal, loving, and protective of him. If someone entered the home without inspection, she would kill the person. Only when a new individual was slowly introduced in her presence, and the master was "OK" with the stranger, did she allow that person to exist peacefully around her. She took to my mother almost instantly, and took to me within a few months.

It's not true that pit bulls are violent, terrible dogs that just snap for no reason. There is always a reason. The dogs that were mistreated and abused, and trained to kill... they are dangerous. What you put in to raising a dog is manifested by how the dog behaves. If you raise it with tender loving care and attention, you will have a loving child. I have lived around more than 3 pit bulls that were raised properly, and they are a joy in my life. 

I feel that with more education, the pit bull will become better understood. It would be better to subscribe to the experiences of those who actually own and live around pit bulls, in my opinion. If you have never owned a pit bull, and only know of them based on the incidents you hear or the biased accounts you've been told, then you are not being told everything.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



The whole world is stupid, except for you...

Once one begins to understand the frame, posture and distinct head and jaw size of a pit bull, identification is immediate.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> Good morning everyone.
> 
> From my personal experiences, it depends on the pit bull. My mother's fiance owned two pit bulls. One was raised with love as a puppy, and has been nothing short of a silly, loving little kid. The other, who has now passed, was rescued by that man. She had been abused, taught to be extremely aggressive and territorial, and left tied to a tree to die. When he found her, she was nothing but a bag of bones, emaciated. Though she was taught to fear and attack, she took to him as he cared for her, and became incredibly loyal, loving, and protective of him. If someone entered the home without inspection, she would kill the person. Only when a new individual was slowly introduced in her presence, and the master was "OK" with the stranger, did she allow that person to exist peacefully around her. She took to my mother almost instantly, and took to me within a few months.
> 
> ...



Myth #6: Pit bulls are not unpredictable

Despite pro-pit bull claims that pit bulls are not unpredictable, the breed frequently attacks without provocation or warning. It is well documented by humane groups that to excel in dogfighting, pit bulls were selectively bred to conceal warning signals prior to an attack. For instance, a pit bull may not growl, bare its teeth or offer a direct stare before it strikes. Unlike all other dog breeds, pit bulls are also disrespectful of traditional signs of submission and appeasement.16

According to expert Randall Lockwood, pit bulls are also liars. In a 2004 law enforcement training video, taped when Lockwood was vice president for research and educational outreach for the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), he shares the following story:

    "Fighting dogs lie all the time. I experienced it first hand when I was investigating three pit bulls that killed a little boy in Georgia. When I went up to do an initial evaluation of the dog's behavior, the dog came up to the front of the fence, gave me a nice little tail wag and a "play bow" -- a little solicitation, a little greeting. As I got closer, he lunged for my face."17

If a pit bull can fool an expert such as Lockwood, how can the average citizen anticipate a pit bull's future action? In a separate example, animal behavioral expert Peter Borchelt was sued after the pit bull he was training for a client "suddenly" attacked an ex-fireman. After encountering Gabriel Febbraio on the street and assuring him that the pit bull was friendly, the dog broke free from Borchelt and attacked Febbraio in the groin. The jury awarded Febbraio $1 million dollars.18


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



I guess that's why so many accounts of pit bull attacks end up being another breed?  A famous one is the time this Diane Whipple in SF was killed by 2 Presa Canarios and everyone was calling them pit bulls. The dogs are about twice the size of a pit.

Diane Whipple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## BobPlumb (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Good morning everyone.
> ...



Now in going to have an image of a pit bull attacking a groin all day.  ouch!


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## Wake (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Myth #6: Pit bulls are not unpredictable



I don't consider the website you've linked credible because in its front page it mentions that some dogs don't let go. There is a falsehood circulating around the internet about a pit bull's jaws locking, when that is not the case. Since that website is highly biased, I feel it has little weight in this discussion. That said, I do find it rather easy to identify a pit bull, since I live among them and know more about them than the general population. I suspect both sides on this issue are rather biased, and unwilling to compromise with certain truths.

The site may be correct on some things, but because it's heavily slanted, it becomes worthless in the realm of balanced debate and discussion. It would be no different than a Progressive/Liberal citing Mediaite, or Conservatives citing TheBlaze.com.


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

More proof of misidentification

Dog In Attack Misidentified As A Pit Bull



> In a front page article on November 21, 2006 the Houston Chronicle reported "two pit bulls" had fatally mauled a 4 year old child, Pedro Rios. Authorities reported they shot one pit bull and wounded the other. A pit bull task force planned to study the reason for an increase in bites in the Harris County, Texas area which includes Houston.
> 
> By Laura Allen, Best Friends Staff
> 
> ...


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



That is not a pit. And not one said it was a pit...

next...


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
> 
> 
> > Pitbulls can be sweet, cuddly dogs
> ...



I know right! Lmao


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## Wake (Jul 24, 2014)

Same here Ashtara and Asclepias. The pit I live with is just a snuggle-bug, and is always looking for someone to snuggle with. 

Do you guys know how, when they get playful, they move like ninjas, getting silly and funny? I'll slowly come close to him with both hands out and apart, like i'm going to playfully get him, and he moves incredibly quickly in response, like he's "READY."


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> More proof of misidentification
> 
> Dog In Attack Misidentified As A Pit Bull
> 
> ...



There was no "mis-identification". Pedro Rios was killed by pit bulls.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> Same here Ashtara and Asclepias. The pit I live with is just a snuggle-bug, and is always looking for someone to snuggle with.
> 
> Do you guys know how, when they get playful, they move like ninjas, getting silly and funny? I'll slowly come close to him with both hands out and apart, like i'm going to playfully get him, and he moves incredibly quickly in response, like he's "READY."



My pit Buddy was the MOST "snuggle-bug" dog I ever owned. He would try to climb up on my chest as I lay on the couch.

When Buddy attacked me, he moved like a "ninja".


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## Wake (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Same here Ashtara and Asclepias. The pit I live with is just a snuggle-bug, and is always looking for someone to snuggle with.
> ...



Personally I feel there's always a reason why a dog attacks. With respect, may I please ask you some personal questions about Buddy?


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## Bfgrn (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



You can ask whatever you wish. But I will soon be off the board until late tonight.

I loved Buddy and I still miss him. I have owned and/or been raised with dogs all my life. Here is a quick recap of my theory. Buddy was unique. Examples: every dog I owned would run away when you turned on a garden hose. Not Buddy, he would try to bite the stream of water coming out. When my wife would vacuum, every dog I ever owned would leave the room and try to get as far away as possible from the vacuum. Not Buddy, he would try to bite the vacuum.

I believe ALL the dogs were reacting to FEAR. Buddy attacked fear.


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## Wake (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



That I understand. 

Did you raise Buddy from a puppy? If you bought him later than 5 months, something could have happened that caused him to lash out. I've never had the pit bulls attack me, over the course of many years. Him biting the stream of water or attacking the vacuum cleaner doesn't seem abnormal for a dog. I once owned a loving Cocker Spaniel mix, and she would bite the stream of water and fight the wayward demon, "Vacuum." Even seen a weiner dog violently attack a streaming hose, only to get completely soaked? In my experience cats avoid vacuums and water at all costs, but dogs fight those evil things.


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## Unkotare (Jul 24, 2014)

If you want a companion dog, a guard dog, a service dog, or even an attack dog, there are other breeds better suited to the role than a pit bull. The only area in which a pit bull is the better choice is a vile, immoral, illegal activity that only scumbags like you-know-who participate in.


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## earlycuyler (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
> 
> 
> > Pitbulls can be sweet, cuddly dogs
> ...



My biggest gripe is how most well meaning owners fail to realize that these dogs tend to be very aggressive towards other animals.


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## earlycuyler (Jul 24, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> If you want a companion dog, a guard dog, a service dog, or even an attack dog, there are other breeds better suited to the role than a pit bull. The only area in which a pit bull is the better choice is a vile, immoral, illegal activity that only scumbags like you-know-who participate in.



Not so. King, Josa, Beth and foxy were my Dads dogs when I was a kid. Best damn pig dogs on the planet.


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## TrainTime (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



JESUS CHRIST!  Who the fuck cares what "reason" Buddy had to violently attack his master for picking up his leash on the floor?  Very little brain activity there other than the short-circuit that's in all Pits due to over-breeding.  With Shepherds and Golden Retrievers it's hip-displacia.  With Pits it's sudden violent attacks.  And with the power, speed, and athleticism they have, that attack often turns fatal because they do not stop.


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## Wake (Jul 24, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> JESUS CHRIST!  Who the fuck cares what "reason" Buddy had to violently attack his master for picking up his leash on the floor?  Very little brain activity there other than the short-circuit that's in all Pits due to over-breeding.  With Shepherds and Golden Retrievers it's hip-displacia.  With Pits it's sudden violent attacks.  And with the power, speed, and athleticism they have, that attack often turns fatal because they do not stop.



In my opinion, the reason is important, because of the flawed notion that all pit bulls are bad. It may be that Buddy, like other pit bulls, was abused when young. That may not be the case for Buddy, but it is the case for many pit bulls that attack. If a pit bull is raised lovingly while young, I see no reason for that sort of dog to just suddenly snap for no reason. The dogs are actually quite intelligent, depending on the kind of pit bull. As for the short-circuit you mention, do you have biological evidence of it? When those certain pit bulls attack, it's because they were abused and trained to not stop. They're violently trained to be tough, aggressive, destructive guards. A friend of the family bought a pit bull "trained" that way, and while working in down-town Milwaukee he'd leash the dog to his work van with a long chain, because thieves were known to burglarize those vans in a very short period of time.

I'm curious to know if there's a study regarding pit bulls that were raised with love and attention, since being puppies.


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## Tank (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> In my opinion, the reason is important, because of the flawed notion that all pit bulls are bad.


Nobody is saying that ALL Pit Bulls are bad, but enuff are bad that we notice the difference


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## DigitalDrifter (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> Same here Ashtara and Asclepias. The pit I live with is just a snuggle-bug, and is always looking for someone to snuggle with.
> 
> Do you guys know how, when they get playful, they move like ninjas, getting silly and funny? I'll slowly come close to him with both hands out and apart, like i'm going to playfully get him, and he moves incredibly quickly in response, like he's "READY."



But any breed can be that way. All of them can be playful, be fun, be loving etc. The thing about a pit though, is they are capable of doing a lot more damage than other breeds.


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## NLT (Jul 24, 2014)

Yea pit bulls are sooo safe you have to use a ships anchor chain to hold them. perfect animal to have around children.


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## TrainTime (Jul 24, 2014)

Mertex said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Mertex said:
> ...





Asclepias said:


> Mertex said:
> 
> 
> > Pit bulls are known for the high number of incidences where they attack people....many times their owners or other members of the owner's family and especially children.
> ...



Of course....now you're an attack dog trainer.  

Folks, believe NOTHING this dork says....it's all bullshit to keep somebody replying to him.  I'd be amazed if Assplaster has ever petted a dog that wasn't a toy poodle.


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## dannyboys (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> Bears and tigers are wild animals.
> 
> Pitbulls are domesticated, and the ones that become aggressive were trained to be that way through abuse and fear from bad owners.
> 
> Definitely apples and oranges, Godboy. Pitbulls raise with love and affection are incredibly loyal, loving, sweet, playful, and smart. If you raise them well, they will love you. I love it when they tuck their little butts in and dash around to play.


Then you have no problem letting your pit bulls 'play' with little children right? You did say you raised them right so there is no problem right? Ya fucking right!
Get you head out of your ass pal.


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## Taz (Jul 24, 2014)

Pitbulls are the Tourette's Syndrome of dogs. They're also a waste of good dog food.


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## TrainTime (Jul 24, 2014)

NLT said:


> Yea pit bulls are sooo safe you have to use a ships anchor chain to hold them. perfect animal to have around children.



True dat.  I wonder how many aggressive dog owners keep an eye on the condition of their leash.  Take a look at it from time to time because each time a larger dog tugs on it, it loses something....especially around the pivot that snaps on the dogs collar.  That's all that's between your manhood substitute and it's victim.


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## dannyboys (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> hazlnut said:
> 
> 
> > Pit bulls, like any dog, will release with a hard punch to the throat.
> ...


Don't you love it when some moron here claims giving a dog a "hard punch to the throat" will work? 
Why would one need to give your beloved doggie a "hard punch to the throat"? I'm sure that is a best way to deal with a dog that has ahold of someone.
How about a .38 between the eyes? That works every time.
Fucking stupid idiots here.


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## TrainTime (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> TrainTime said:
> 
> 
> > JESUS CHRIST!  Who the fuck cares what "reason" Buddy had to violently attack his master for picking up his leash on the floor?  Very little brain activity there other than the short-circuit that's in all Pits due to over-breeding.  With Shepherds and Golden Retrievers it's hip-displacia.  With Pits it's sudden violent attacks.  And with the power, speed, and athleticism they have, that attack often turns fatal because they do not stop.
> ...



Right, and violent criminals are simply "misunderstood" eh?  Let's say for instance your dog picks up on a stranger's fear of it.   And what stranger wouldn't be apprehensive about coming around a corner to confront a Pitbull, given their reputation.  Now you can say the "reason" for the attack was....what?  Sure there is always a reason....who cares what it is with an aggressive dog?  All dogs can sense fear.  The gentle breeds usually start wiggling and trying to lick the stranger instead of ripping his balls off.  Is a child putting it's face in a dog's face reason enough for it to grab the kid's face?  I don't mean to be combative, but trying to "understand" a violent breed does little to mitigate the damage it does when it attacks.  And I can tell you from a recent experience of mine with a Pit, that they attack MOVEMENT.   Run from one and you're prey.  Fortunately I deboarded and blocked the Pit with my bike....my crime was riding by him half a block away.  I saw him coming or I'd have had my hands full.


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## Wake (Jul 24, 2014)

Tank said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > In my opinion, the reason is important, because of the flawed notion that all pit bulls are bad.
> ...



Yet the point is that those who are trained to be that way are the ones doing the damage. The ones being noticed in the news are typically those that have been abused.



DigitalDrifter said:


> But any breed can be that way. All of them can be playful, be fun, be loving etc. The thing about a pit though, is they are capable of doing a lot more damage than other breeds.



Their physique, like other big dogs, makes that true. Rottweilers, dobermans, and even Labradors are capable of doing lots of damage. More than smaller dogs like daschunds, etc. Because of their capability, bad people exploit that to make them mean and vicious.



NLT said:


> Yea pit bulls are sooo safe you have to use a ships anchor chain to hold them. perfect animal to have around children.



That's not accurate. The pit bull in the picture you've provided has clearly been trained to be tough, aggressive, and destructive. Have you seen pictures of normal pit bulls that haven't been bulked up and/or abused? They're smaller, and slimmer. Some bad people put very heavy weights around the necks of their pit bulls, too, and frequently beat them in order to get them to be vicious.



dannyboys said:


> Then you have no problem letting your pit bulls 'play' with little children right? You did say you raised them right so there is no problem right? Ya fucking right!
> Get you head out of your ass pal.



I wouldn't not have any dog Medium-Large to Large around my little children. A daschund or Cocker Spaniel et al, under supervision, is fine with me. I did not say that, because I raised them, I had no problem with them around little children. If memory serves, that notion came from you.



Taz said:


> Pitbulls are the Tourette's Syndrome of dogs. They're also a waste of good dog food.



I'm sorry you feel that way about such a wonderful breed of dogs. If anything is a waste, it's the people who cruelly beat and abuse these animals in order to make an effective guard dog.


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## NLT (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> Tank said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



Fuck pit bulls, my friend had a albino pit bull that he raised from a puppy as a family pet and he got sued when it broke loose an attacked a couple of kids waiting for the bus. Fuck pit bulls and fuck their owners as well.


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## Wake (Jul 24, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > TrainTime said:
> ...



Dogs are not humans, TT.

It depends on the pit bull. Was it trained to attack people when they sense fear? It solely relies on the dog. Has it known beatings, it's blood being spilled, it being pitted against other dogs or left for dead? Or was it raised with the opposite of violence and cruelty? 

We must care about the reason, because a violently trained and abused pit bull is far more likely to attack someone it perceives is afraid, unlike a pit bull that has never known violence and cruelty. Also, pit bulls are *not* inherently aggressive. Someone has lied to you, I think. They are born with the bulk, but they are trained to acquire the aggression. Burglars fear gentle giants than aggressive ones. Pit bulls I have raised and lived with, besides the one dog that was abused and left for dead, are as gentle as you describe.

How a dog behavesbig or smalldepends on how it is taught. Even the gentle, smaller dogs can become aggressive if you repeatedly beat it and bulk it up. Teach it to fear and hate humans, and you will not have a gentle dog.

The dog that chased you was likely taught to be super-territorial, which is another thing bad people do to manipulate the dogs into killing machines. My pit bulls are naturally inclined to guard the territory they live in, like most dogsincluding the yappy, little ones. 

Also, there's big money made in training pit bulls to be violent and aggressive.


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## TrainTime (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> Dogs are not humans, TT.
> 
> It depends on the pit bull. Was it trained to attack people when they sense fear? It solely relies on the dog. Has it known beatings, it's blood being spilled, it being pitted against other dogs or left for dead? Or was it raised with the opposite of violence and cruelty?
> 
> ...



If you read this thread from the beginning, you'd see I've been with and around war dogs in the Military.  These German Shepherds were attack dogs but also ordnance-sniffers, and trail finders.  In Vietnam, it was essential on a mission, especially a Recon op, that the dog never bark or be tempted to chase after a monkey or snake (Cobra).  Our LRRP dogs were trained to be silent and obedient.  They were trained with German language commands.  They did not shy during gunfire or go after an enemy combatant unless ordered.  When these dogs attacked it was to hit the throat...not an arm or leg like police dogs are trained to do.   They could not be brought home if they'd killed a human....Army policy and a realistic one in my opinion.

Anyway, I've been around and raised German Shepherds my whole life.  All the German breeds can be unpredictable regardless of the expertise in training.  I raised mine over my head every couple months to make sure they understood who was the dog and who was the bear.  I admit I kinda liked folks being intimidated by my dogs.  I outgrew that when I realized a person who gets nervous around big dogs doesn't like to visit again.  And after moving to Arizona and being able to carry a pistol, I gave up on aggressive dogs.  They're always a concern because they make a mistake thinking they're protecting you.  One of my Shepherds grabbed a black gas station attendant handing me a pack of cigarettes through a car window.  That one cost me $3K out of court.

I believe Rottweilers are as or more dangerous as Pits.  And they are heavier and bite harder.  I told somebody earlier how about we just go back to the dogs we grew up around....Goldies and Collies, Beagles, and Cockers.  It's disturbing our lives are led in such paranoia that there's a need for violent dogs around us.


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



BS. I live close to the site and everyone was calling them pits on the news.  They finally corrected it only once about a week later.


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



Thats not unique. All my pits did the exact same thing.  They have a high prey drive.  They were not frightened at all. They were having fun.


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

earlycuyler said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Goddess_Ashtara said:
> ...



Thats one thing that bothers me as well. They were bred to be dog aggressive. Not all are but in my experience after they get into their first scrap you have to watch them around other dogs. My favorite pit was ok with other animals as long as they were smaller than him. A dog his size he was eager to attack. Some people try to pretend they dont do this and it causes an additional problem for other pit owners.


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## thereisnospoon (Jul 24, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...


What bothers me is the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is mistaken for the bastardized and aggressive American Pit Bull or Pit Bull which is not a breed recognized by the American Kennel Club or the Westminster Kennel Club..
The typical Pit Bull is a status symbol for aggressive urban dwellers as well as used in illegal fighting.
People unwittingly bring these animals into their homes thinking they have "protection"...These animals do not mix well with children. These animals may exhibit a calm demeanor, but are known to turn on their owners, their children or innocent neighbors and of course other dogs. 
It won't take much more time before Homeowner's associations, towns and other entities begin banning these animals.


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## thereisnospoon (Jul 24, 2014)

Mr. H. said:


> I'll be glad when our dog is dead. He's a mutt with just enough Chow to give him that attitude.
> 
> Pit Bulls are an abomination of canine cross-breading.



I don't like chow chows. 
There is nonly one thing worse than a dumb dog. And that is a dumb dog that is mean and aggressive. 
That's a perfect description for the Chow Chow


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## thereisnospoon (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.
> 
> They're not evil, but misunderstood. It is the owner who abuses the dogs that is to blame here.



The American Pit Bull is what is termed "alpha"....That makes them incompatible with children and other animals. 
It is their nature to be aggressive. These animals have a propensity to attack without warning.
You are on your own in your trust. 
Please do not ask others to trust..
Thanks.


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

dannyboys said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Bears and tigers are wild animals.
> ...



I would let any of my pits play with any child.


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## thereisnospoon (Jul 24, 2014)

Wake said:


> Bears and tigers are wild animals.
> 
> Pitbulls are domesticated, and the ones that become aggressive were trained to be that way through abuse and fear from bad owners.
> 
> Definitely apples and oranges, Godboy. Pitbulls raise with love and affection are incredibly loyal, loving, sweet, playful, and smart. If you raise them well, they will love you. I love it when they tuck their little butts in and dash around to play.



This is the typical stuff I read/hear from pit bull owners. And ONLY pit bull owners.
Look, if you like your dogs, fine. Keep them leashed, contained and away from others and your fine. 
I may be getting up there in years, but I sill have a live throwing arm. 
The pit that made the mistake of being on my property knows that as well.
Fastball (with a rock)right to the ribs.


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## thereisnospoon (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...


It is not the story. It is the frequency in which this happens.
Much too often.


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## Godboy (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> dannyboys said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



Yeah, but youre stupid, so your point is invalid.


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## thereisnospoon (Jul 24, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Goddess_Ashtara said:
> ...



The accomplishment is getting people like you all lathered up to the point where you irrationally lash out at them....
GOTCHA


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > dannyboys said:
> ...



My point is actually very valid. My dogs are introduced to every child within 3 feet. Its part of my socialization program I have with all my pits.  You should see how a class of kindergartners react to pits.


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## thereisnospoon (Jul 24, 2014)

Noomi said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > There are over 300 breeds of dogs.  Of the dog attacks that occur in the US and end in death, 62% are attacks by pit bulls.  One breed out of 300 breeds causing 62% of all deaths.  And you still believe they are a safe dog to have, especially to have around children? Most deaths that occur from dog attacks are of the elderly or children.  One breed out of 300+ breeds. Think about it.
> ...


Your insignificant presence is barely tolerated here.


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## thereisnospoon (Jul 24, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



Then I will tell ya what....Go ahead and walk into someone's yard where there is one of these animals, walk up to it and try to pet it.....It is a safe bet you will be wounded or missing parts.


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## thereisnospoon (Jul 24, 2014)

WinterBorn said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


Killed? oh and that makes it all right...


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 24, 2014)

thereisnospoon said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...




In doing that, you are disrespecting the animal's Nature.  You deserve to be mauled if you were stupid enough to do that.


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

thereisnospoon said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
> ...



Ad Hominem. Most dogs defend their territory. You can walk up and pet any of my pits in a neutral environment.


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## Tresha91203 (Jul 24, 2014)

I'm allergic to dogs so no experience other than in childhood. 

Crazy people have a reason for what they do, too. It is just not a reason any reasonable, rational adult can anticipate or predict. Maybe the reason the joggers and bikers are getting attacked is because they are moving, maybe even fast. If a dog has such a strong prey drive that it may chase down quick people who are not trespassing, that dog does not need to be around people.  If a dog thinks public walkways belong to him because he can't read surveys, that dog needs to be 100% contained. It is not the dog's fault any more than it is a crazy person's fault. It is still dangerous. Unpredictable to a layman is unpredictable. I don't need to learn all about pit bulls to expect to not be attacked. I don't own one and don't go looking for them. What's the point anyway if it is all about how they are raised?


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## Asclepias (Jul 24, 2014)

Tresha91203 said:


> I'm allergic to dogs so no experience other than in childhood.
> 
> Crazy people have a reason for what they do, too. It is just not a reason any reasonable, rational adult can anticipate or predict. Maybe the reason the joggers and bikers are getting attacked is because they are moving, maybe even fast. If a dog has such a strong prey drive that it may chase down quick people who are not trespassing, that dog does not need to be around people.  If a dog thinks public walkways belong to him because he can't read surveys, that dog needs to be 100% contained. It is not the dog's fault any more than it is a crazy person's fault. It is still dangerous. Unpredictable to a layman is unpredictable. *I don't need to learn all about pit bulls to expect to not be attacked.* I don't own one and don't go looking for them. What's the point anyway if it is all about how they are raised?



You dont need to learn about pits per say. You need to learn about dogs in general. A pit will simply do more damage if not trained properly and you set it off. There is nothing specific about pits that dont set off other dogs as well.


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## earlycuyler (Jul 24, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



^ Largely a bunch of bull shit quoted from Sally Jessie Raphael.


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## earlycuyler (Jul 24, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Tresha91203 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm allergic to dogs so no experience other than in childhood.
> ...



Mm, Pitts are like navy SEAL's. They dont know anything other then 100% in anything they do be it playing, eating, chewing couch pillows or what ever. Training is good for them. They are working dogs, not lay around the house dogs. So nothing specific to the breed will set them off, but when they go off they will go off 110%. A trained pit bull with a stupid owner, like one who is retarded enough to have a dog baby sit their kids will get in trouble.


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## Bfgrn (Jul 25, 2014)

Wake said:


> TrainTime said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



You object to generalizations about pit bulls, and replace it with generalizations about owners. People understand the reason for the aggression of pit bulls raised by the Michael Vicks of the world. But that doesn't explain the sudden aggression of properly raised pit bulls, or the much higher incidents of fatal and maiming attacks by pit bulls.

I highly DOUBT Darla Napora was a 'Michael Vicks' type pit bull owner...

Darla Napor would probably argue right with you and be advocating for this extremely dangerous breed. Herein lies the problem. She is DEAD.

Darla Napora: Pregnant woman dies after being mauled by pet dog in living room | Mail Online








Victim was member of 'Dog Lovers Responsible About Pit Bulls'


Two-year-old pitbull terrier shot after charging at police
 

Husband finds Darla Napora's body drenched in blood
 

Victim suffered dozens of bites to her body and face

A pregnant woman who was mauled to death by one of her pet pit bull terriers belonged to group campaigning to convince people that the animals aren't dangerous, it has emerged.

Darla Napora, 32, was bitten dozens of times and found by her husband Greg covered in blood outstretched on their living room floor in Pacifica, California.

Police say the two-year-old unneutered pit bull believed to be responsible was hovering around the woman, who had major injuries to her upper body and face.

Read this, it is written by doctors who treat these horrible attacks.

Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs


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## earlycuyler (Jul 25, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > TrainTime said:
> ...



Agreed. Dogs are not people. But the people described above are the type that should not own pit bulls.


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## Asclepias (Jul 25, 2014)

earlycuyler said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Tresha91203 said:
> ...



I agree. Anyone that would let a dog baby sit a child needs their heads examined.


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## BobPlumb (Jul 25, 2014)

earlycuyler said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



But some people are dogs.


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## Godboy (Jul 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> earlycuyler said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



What kind of retarded shit is this? You've been saying pit bulls babysat YOUR kids. You called them "Nanny dogs", remember?


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## Asclepias (Jul 25, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > earlycuyler said:
> ...



Its pretty obvious to everyone you are confused.  It would have been a lot more effective if you could quote me saying I allowed my pits to baby sit my kids.  I'm sorta curious as to why you cant do that to support your claim?


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## Godboy (Jul 25, 2014)

Oh I get it. You feel stupid for everything youve said in this thread, so now this is a feeble attempt to slither away like the snake that you are. It isnt going to work.


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## Asclepias (Jul 25, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Oh I get it. You feel stupid for everything youve said in this thread, so now this is a feeble attempt to slither away like the snake that you are. It isnt going to work.



No. I feel fine. I'm asking you to quote where I said I allow my dogs to baby sit my kids. Can you do that or not? Your diversion wont work.


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## MomofOne (Jul 25, 2014)

As a mother, I am very much against on having my pet dog as the nanny of my kid.  I have seen in the internet that there are cases like these where the baby is baby sit by a dog.  It seems very dangerous to me since we really don't know what the animal is thinking.  I mean, let's just think mainly on the safety of our kids and not because our pets have been with us for long and so we trust them.  Yes, I trust my pet but not up to that extent.


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## Unkotare (Jul 25, 2014)

Some dogs, of breeds with more predictable natures, are trust-worthy enough, but an animal cannot exercise judgment the way a human can no matter how reliably gentle it is. Leaving a baby with any animal is still just leaving it alone at best. Leaving a baby alone with a breed like a pit bull is criminally negligent and should be treated as such even if no tragedy ensues.


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## Asclepias (Jul 25, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Some dogs, of breeds with more predictable natures, are trust-worthy enough, but an animal cannot exercise judgment the way a human can no matter how reliably gentle it is. Leaving a baby with any animal is still just leaving it alone at best. Leaving a baby alone with a breed like a pit bull is criminally negligent and should be treated as such even if no tragedy ensues.



Leaving a baby alone with any dog/animal should be criminal negligence. Are you a moron or something?


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## Unkotare (Jul 25, 2014)

Pit bull owners always seem to take it personally (and if they do - fuck 'em) but the fact is that not all breeds of dogs are the same. The dogs themselves are not 'at fault' for being what they are, and I would not advocate the elimination of the breed, but 99.999999999% of people who own them are just being selfish, stupid, delusional; or flat-out, asshole, wannabe punks. 

And we see, all too often, what the consequences are.


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## Asclepias (Jul 25, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Pit bull owners always seem to take it personally (and if they do - fuck 'em) but the fact is that not all breeds of dogs are the same. The dogs themselves are not 'at fault' for being what they are, and I would not advocate the elimination of the breed, but 99.999999999% of people who own them are just being selfish, stupid, delusional; or flat-out, asshole, wannabe punks.
> 
> And we see, all too often, what the consequences are.



Thats correct Einstein. All breeds of dogs are not the same. Can you wax a little more philosophical for us?  where did you get your figures on what the owners are like?  Do you have a link?  You know Helen Keller, Fred Astaire, President Roosevelt, Jessica Alba etc owned pits right?


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## MaryL (Jul 25, 2014)

I love dogs. Pit Bulls are a wild card here. It's all about how HUMANS treat them, but they do have a certain unpredictable disposition. Dachshunds can be pretty mean and territorial. They snap and bite and...that is what dogs do. Pit bulls were bred to fight and do massive harm. Massive jaw muscles and  reflexes. But they can just be loving peaceful as a butterfly. A neighbor of mine had a Pit bull bitch named "Daisy", and she was so sweet and loving around kids, she would melt your heart.


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## Godboy (Jul 25, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I get it. You feel stupid for everything youve said in this thread, so now this is a feeble attempt to slither away like the snake that you are. It isnt going to work.
> ...



Did you or did you not leave your kids with your "pits"? I already know you wont answer that question, because you know being honest right now will make you look like a fool... again. We all know your kids were alone with your pits, likely on hundreds of occasions, if not thousands. How could they not be? You are a fool for doing that. I consider that terrible parenting.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



Still diverting I see.  I guess that means you don't have the quote. We all knew that anyway but nice try.


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



I couldnt help but notice that you did EXACTLY what I said you would do. Right now you will avoid answering for your poor decision making when it comes to children and pit bulls. Your stupidity is dangerous.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



I couldnt help but notice you didn't provide a quote.  Thats exactly what I thought you would do too.  I know you feel foolish for flapping your gums to soon but you tend to do that often. You should have learned by now.


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Why would I bother posting a quote of you talking about you raising children around them and referring to them as "nanny dogs"?  We all read it. It doesnt need to be posted again. You also implied that you brought pitbulls around a class out kindergarteners. Your stupidity is endangering children and everyone around you.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



Another diversion. Unfortunately I have you pinned down. I wont allow you to lose sight of that.  I know this is embarrassing for you but you keep putting your foot in your mouth son. Produce the quote if you can.



Asclepias said:


> Its pretty obvious to everyone you are confused. *It would have been a lot more effective if you could quote me saying I allowed my pits to baby sit my kids. *I'm sorta curious as to why you cant do that to support your claim?



I bet you wish you had this keyboard right about now don't you?


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## Unkotare (Jul 26, 2014)

Asslickius provides the perfect example of someone who should not own a pit bull or any other breed of dog. Irrational, irresponsible punks like him are not fit to steward any of God's creatures. 

It is not the fault of pit bulls for being what they are, but there is no legitimate reason for having a dog where another breed is not a MUCH better choice. Reading some of these posts, you get the feeling that some people own pit bulls just to say "Oh yeah? Well *I* can do it!" which in the end is really no different than the punk-ass teenager doing the 'over-compensation strut' down the sidewalk with some poor dog at the end of a heavy length of chain completely inappropriate for restraining it.

Stupid punks will be stupid punks, even after they are too old to wear their jeans around mid-ass because their mid-ass disappeared a few decades ago.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Asslickius provides the perfect example of someone who should not own a pit bull or any other breed of dog. Irrational, irresponsible punks like him are not fit to steward any of God's creatures.
> 
> It is not the fault of pit bulls for being what they are, but there is no legitimate reason for having a dog where another breed is not a MUCH better choice. Reading some of these posts, you get the feeling that some people own pit bulls just to say "Oh yeah? Well *I* can do it!" which in the end is really no different than the punk-ass teenager doing the 'over-compensation strut' down the sidewalk with some poor dog at the end of a heavy length of chain completely inappropriate for restraining it.
> 
> Stupid punks will be stupid punks, even after they are too old to wear their jeans around mid-ass because their mid-ass disappeared a few decades ago.



People claiming to know what the perfect breed of dog is for someone else are the most irrational and whiny people alive. Whiny punks like you are funny and pathetic all at the same time. You are scared of pit bulls and you think everyone else should share your fear. Unk. You are nothing but the rawest of pussies.


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## Unkotare (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Asslickius provides the perfect example of someone who should not own a pit bull or any other breed of dog. Irrational, irresponsible punks like him are not fit to steward any of God's creatures.
> ...





Oh look, there's one of those punks doing the 'over-compensation strut' I was talking about. 

Take your issues to a shrink, dickless. The dog isn't making your 'shortcoming' any bigger.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 26, 2014)

Usually people get a dog because they like that breed of dog, not because it is the "best" in any particular area.

Same with cats.  I'm more of a cat person... and no matter what cat I get, its always gotta be Siamese or part Siamese.  I just like that breed of cat.  

After my full blooded Siamese died, I adopted another which was half Siamese, half Turkish Angora.  I thought I was done.  But then a friend of mine had a litter of kittens that we saw get born on freaking Halloween!  I had to adopt one of them!  I took a boy and named him Samhein Samael.  Aka Sam.  Half Siamese, half black cat (whatever breed that was).  So basically a black/ Siamese cat born on Halloween.  What a badass little Familiar!  

When I finally adopted him, it was 12/12/12.  It was Fate!

So yeah...  I can understand how some people might feel the same about their Pitbulls.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Unkotare said:
> ...



You are so insecure. I know I must intimidate you. Why else would you start talking about my dick? This is about dogs. 2 different things. Like I said funny and pathetic.


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## Unkotare (Jul 26, 2014)

If you want a companion animal, a pit bull is obviously not the best choice given their well-established track record of violently unpredictable behavior, particularly regarding children. 

If you want a dog to sound the alarm if those of ill intent are about, there are many small breeds that have been bred for centuries just to accentuate such characteristics. Any of them would be a better choice than a pit.

If you want an attack dog (for whatever reason) other breeds would be a better choice since pits were bred to be aggressive to other animals and not to humans. Problems arise when very young humans are perceived by these dogs as small animals. 

If you want a hunting dog there are obviously many much, much better choices.

If you want a service dog there are many much, much more approachable, intelligent and trainable breeds.

The only role where a pit is the best choice is in dog fighting, which is a vile, utterly immoral, and indefensible practice.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 26, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> If you want a companion animal, a pit bull is obviously not the best choice given their well-established track record of violently unpredictable behavior, particularly regarding children.
> 
> If you want a dog to sound the alarm if those of ill intent are about, there are many small breeds that have been bred for centuries just to accentuate such characteristics. Any of them would be a better choice than a pit.
> 
> ...



Who the fuck cares about all that.  If you like the breed than none of that matters.  A dog doesn't have be "the greatest" at anything for it to become an awesome pet.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Usually people get a dog because they like that breed of dog, not because it is the "best" in any particular area.
> 
> Same with cats.  I'm more of a cat person... and no matter what cat I get, its always gotta be Siamese or part Siamese.  I just like that breed of cat.
> 
> ...



I actually disliked pits for a long time because all the ones I knew where I grew up were trained to be killers. I used to think like some of the other people that had never owned a pit. A good friend of mine had one and he was a intelligent and very friendly dog.  After much research I got one and never regretted the decision. By far the best dog I have ever owned. All my other pit bulls have been incredible dogs as well.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> If you want a companion animal, a pit bull is obviously not the best choice given their well-established track record of violently unpredictable behavior, particularly regarding children.
> 
> If you want a dog to sound the alarm if those of ill intent are about, there are many small breeds that have been bred for centuries just to accentuate such characteristics. Any of them would be a better choice than a pit.
> 
> ...



Shut up stupid. You haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. They are pretty much an all purpose breed. They will do what you want them to do or die trying. They are not the best in all categories but excel in many.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Here are some pits doing protection work. Note the ability of the owners to call off these supposedly crazy dogs after they attack.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBNieFJ8Kkc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBNieFJ8Kkc[/ame]


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Pits in France doing obedience work.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW1eQE4kWFM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW1eQE4kWFM[/ame]


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## Yarddog (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



Maybe he used the phrase Nanny Dogs, because that is what they used to be called at one time. Or so, I have heard that repeated by others. Mind you I dont claim to be any sort of Pit Bull expert, I only saved this one as  a stray dog. But i wonder if some of the uptick in violent incidents with Pitts may have something to do with how they are beeing bred and sold, I know that a dog is supposed to remain with its mother and siblings for a certain amount of time before being taken away, because they learn manners and social order during that period.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Yarddog said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Reading is not exactly his strong point.  He frequently brings out his "jump to conclusions mat" instead of understanding what he reads.  Its clear as day what I said.  Nowhere does it say I left my kids alone with the dogs. Thats why he was not able to produce a quote.  He is probably dying from embarrassment now.



Asclepias said:


> The only problem with pits is that if you are a uneducated or bad owner you will be exposed as such. Anyone that thinks owning a pit bull is for cowards just exposed themselves as being a coward. In my estimation pitbulls are the best dogs to get for children.  *They were once known as the nanny dogs.* I wonder how they got that title if the breed is dangerous?


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Yarddog said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



Lets examine the things you've said...



> In my estimation pitbulls are the best dogs to get for children.  *They were once known as the nanny dogs.*





> Ive raised 3 kids with pit bulls.





> I would let any of my pits play with any child.





> You should see how a class of kindergartners react to pits.



Then finally, you post this contradictory quote which proves you are full of shit....



> Anyone that would let a dog baby sit a child needs their heads examined.



How fucking stupid are you Asslips?


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 26, 2014)

Letting children play with a Pitbull under your supervision is a vastly different scenario than going away and leaving them alone with the Pitbull while you are gone.

How brain-dead are you, FraudBoy?


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Letting children play with a Pitbull under your supervision is a vastly different scenario than going away and leaving them alone with the Pitbull while you are gone.
> 
> How brain-dead are you, FraudBoy?



Is this the part where you try to convince me that there was NEVER a moment when his kids were alone with one of the pit bulls he raised? Get the fuck outa here with that bullshit.


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

I had a "well trained" pitt bull kill my mothers dog and attack her till I stomped on it's neck. It lived and then was euthanized. The owner said pitts are just like any dogs, it's your dogs fault blah blah blah.

Pitts when they decide to go all in and attack for whatever reason are absolutely brutal. They don't let go. 

 Bottom line you own a dog that is proven to be most aggressive. Apartments that allow dogs but don't allow pits do so for a reason. It doesn't matter if your the best owner in the world that keeps your pit calm, they can be deadly.

I don't give a fuck about your "it's the bad owners, derp". If a pitt gets near my dog/cat/daughter/wife/mom etc again and even tugs at anything.... I am going to stomp your dog to death, then punch you in the face, and if you don't like it GFY, price you pay for owning an agressive breed.


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Letting children play with a Pitbull under your supervision is a vastly different scenario than going away and leaving them alone with the Pitbull while you are gone.
> 
> How brain-dead are you, FraudBoy?



You see Asslips, even this **** thinks its stupid to leave kids alone with pitbulls. Shes just too fucking stupid to realize you obviously DID leave your kids alone with your pit bulls. I guarantee there were over a thousand separate occasions when your kids were alone with those dogs. Your parenting skills are lacking if you think that is a good idea.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
> 
> 
> > Letting children play with a Pitbull under your supervision is a vastly different scenario than going away and leaving them alone with the Pitbull while you are gone.
> ...



When ever did I say that it was stupid to leave kids alone with Pitbulls?  Fraudboy... making shit up again.


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Goddess_Ashtara said:
> ...



If that's not what you were saying, then explain this comment...



> Letting children play with a Pitbull under your supervision is a vastly different scenario than going away and leaving them alone with the Pitbull while you are gone



Is leaving children alone with pitbulls a bad idea or not?


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



Explain?  Oh of course... because you are too incompetant to understand.  One must always explain things further with you.

My "comment" was in regards to those posts you quoted from Asclepias.  They all mentioned children, but none of them encouraged allowing your Pitbull to "babysit" them.  I never said how I felt about the matter.



> Is leaving children alone with pitbulls a bad idea or not?



Objectively, it is neither a "good" nor a "bad" idea.  Those who are involved with the children and the animal must subjectively determine why it is or is not their will to leave them alone together, and then act accordingly.

You see... the biggest problem with you Mundanes is that you all prefer to see things in black and white.  There can never be any "grey" with the simple-minded race of Homo Hubris.


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## Snouter (Jul 26, 2014)

Never trust a dog that does not have his or her tongue out.  Carry a knife when around or jogging in an area with low IQ dogs like pit bulls.  And be ready to use it.


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

Of course leaving a pit alone with kids is a bad idea. Holy shit people are stupid.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Of course leaving a pit alone with kids is a bad idea. Holy shit people are stupid.



No.  It is neither a "good" nor "bad" idea.


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> WheelieAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Of course leaving a pit alone with kids is a bad idea. Holy shit people are stupid.
> ...



Only you and a couple other retards believe that. The rest of us laugh at your pitiful opinions.


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> WheelieAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Of course leaving a pit alone with kids is a bad idea. Holy shit people are stupid.
> ...



If that's true, why did you say this? 



> Letting children play with a Pitbull under your supervision is a vastly different scenario than going away and leaving them alone with the Pitbull while you are gone.



Christ youre dumb.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
> 
> 
> > WheelieAddict said:
> ...



Refer to post #326.


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Goddess_Ashtara said:
> ...



Its was inadequate and a total lie. Why would you used the term "vastly different" if you didn't believe that it was a bad idea to leave children at home alone with pitbulls? You are a liar, and a very stupid stupid girl. What kind of moron cant keep track of her own point of view?


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## Unkotare (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > If you want a companion animal, a pit bull is obviously not the best choice given their well-established track record of violently unpredictable behavior, particularly regarding children.
> ...




Rational human beings.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Its was inadequate and a total lie. Why would you used the term "vastly different" if you didn't believe that it was a bad idea to leave children at home alone with pitbulls?




Because the two scenarios *are* vastly different, but that does not mean one must be "good" and the other must be "bad".  That is what you *assumed* I was saying.  That is what you are *falsely declaring* that I meant.


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Its was inadequate and a total lie. Why would you used the term "vastly different" if you didn't believe that it was a bad idea to leave children at home alone with pitbulls?
> ...



Then elaborate. How are they vastly different?


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

Fuck sakes this is not hard to understand. Many well trained pitts don't attack, some do, even the "trained" ones. Bottom line and 100% absolute fact, pitts are an aggressive breed and if you own one you should understand that and understand you have more responsibilities than the average dog owner. I already said it earlier in the thread, if you don't control your pitt enough and it even comes close to harming me and mine i will kill it immediately. You don't like it or think I'm mean to animals GFY I am protecting my family/pet. Take it to court IDGAF, you own an aggressive breed.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Letting children play with a Pitbull under your supervision is a vastly different scenario than going away and leaving them alone with the Pitbull while you are gone.
> 
> How brain-dead are you, FraudBoy?



Like I said. Reading and reading comprehension is not his strong suit. How he got me leaving my kids with a dog alone out of that is anyone's guess.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
> 
> 
> > Letting children play with a Pitbull under your supervision is a vastly different scenario than going away and leaving them alone with the Pitbull while you are gone.
> ...



If I obviously did it why cant you prove it?


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...



Stop trying to divert. Its not working at all moron. Show me where you can prove I left my kids with my dogs alone or where I condoned it.  I told you I am not going to let you forget your blunder.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Goddess_Ashtara said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Its was inadequate and a total lie. Why would you used the term "vastly different" if you didn't believe that it was a bad idea to leave children at home alone with pitbulls?
> ...



Goddess he is just trying to get the spotlight off his dumb assumption by attacking you.  Goodboy we are waiting for proof of your assumptions.  Thats 2 of them now. Where did I say I let my dogs watch my kids alone?  I know its embarrassing but you have 2 ways out. Admit you fucked up or vacate the thread. I'm not going to let it go.


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## Unkotare (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Like I said. Reading and reading comprehension is not [sic] his strong suit.






"are not"


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Bottom line you own a dog that is proven to be most aggressive. Apartments that allow dogs but don't allow pits do so for a reason. It doesn't matter if your the best owner in the world that keeps your pit calm, they can be deadly.



I hate when people pull lies out of their asses. Pits are not the most aggressive dog.  Apartments do allow pits depending on where you live. My first one was raised in an apartment. That was one of the reasons I got a pit. I needed one that would be ok in an apartment.

http://www.k9magazine.com/aggressive-dog-breeds/



> The most aggressive breed, the study found, was the Dachshund. The researchers discovered that that one in five have bit or attempted to bite a stranger, and one in twelve have lashed out at their owners. Chihuahuas were in second place, and Jack Russells were the third most aggressive breed. Up to 30 percent of these smaller breeds have bit or attempted to bite unfamiliar dogs
> 
> Read more: The 3 Most Aggressive Dog Breeds | Care2 Healthy Living





> The least aggressive breeds included Basset Hounds, Golden Retrievers, Labradors, Siberian Huskies, and Greyhounds.* Pit Bulls and Rottweilers scored about average to below average in the study.*


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Like I said. Reading and reading comprehension is not [sic] his strong suit.
> ...



Reduced to correcting grammar I see.


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## TrainTime (Jul 26, 2014)

Unkotare said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Like I said. Reading and reading comprehension is not [sic] his strong suit.
> ...


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## TrainTime (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Fuck sakes this is not hard to understand. Many well trained pitts don't attack, some do, even the "trained" ones. Bottom line and 100% absolute fact, pitts are an aggressive breed and if you own one you should understand that and understand you have more responsibilities than the average dog owner. I already said it earlier in the thread, if you don't control your pitt enough and it even comes close to harming me and mine i will kill it immediately. You don't like it or think I'm mean to animals GFY I am protecting my family/pet. Take it to court IDGAF, you own an aggressive breed.



Agreed.  There isn't a jury in the world that will convict a person of improper use of a firearm for putting a bullet in any Pit that approaches them.  Further, given the damage any large dog can do, I want to see CRIMINAL penalties for owners who allow their animals to escape confinement and attack innocents.  

Here's a Detroit guy out for a jog who was MURDERED day before yesterday by 2 Cane Corsos....a bull mastiff version of a large Pitbull.  They'd attacked other people with no criminal consequences for the coward who owns them:

Livonia Man Out Jogging Killed In Dog Attack « CBS Detroit


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> WheelieAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Fuck sakes this is not hard to understand. Many well trained pitts don't attack, some do, even the "trained" ones. Bottom line and 100% absolute fact, pitts are an aggressive breed and if you own one you should understand that and understand you have more responsibilities than the average dog owner. I already said it earlier in the thread, if you don't control your pitt enough and it even comes close to harming me and mine i will kill it immediately. You don't like it or think I'm mean to animals GFY I am protecting my family/pet. Take it to court IDGAF, you own an aggressive breed.
> ...



The morons don't stop proving they are morons. Cane Corsos are not bull mastiffs or pit bulls. How can you be so fucking illiterate?

Here in your own link it describes the classic error in identifying the breed of dogs.



> The dogs were initially described in media reports as Bull Mastiffs; Cane Corso is a similar breed.


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## TrainTime (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> TrainTime said:
> 
> 
> > WheelieAddict said:
> ...



Here ya go ya little punk bitch.....enjoy your fantasy of the damage one of these deranged bastards can do....maybe get a little stiffy eh, Asslips?  























This isn't about Pits or Cane Corsos in particular....it's about the cowards who own these and other UGLY ass breeds because they can't do their own fighting.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

TrainTime said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > TrainTime said:
> ...



Dont get PO'd because you actually proved you are retard without any help from me. 

The OP is about Pits. What do you think the title says or are you too dumb to read that too?  

I do agree that anyone that fights their dogs are cowards. Unfortunately that doesnt help you be less of a fucking idiot.


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> WheelieAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Bottom line you own a dog that is proven to be most aggressive. Apartments that allow dogs but don't allow pits do so for a reason. It doesn't matter if your the best owner in the world that keeps your pit calm, they can be deadly.
> ...



The problem. When pitts do bite they bite to kill and don't stop until they do. I had to stomp on ones neck to get it off my own mother, it was clamped to the bone. This is after it killed her dog. Pitts are an aggressive breed, it isn't a conspiracy against Pitt owners. It is true. And if any one of them even touches a paw to anyone in my family again I will kill it.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > WheelieAddict said:
> ...



Canine experts say you are wrong about the aggressiveness. You are also wrong about them biting to kill in all cases. I have been bitten by a pit before and immediately it let go with no damage.  I know a lot of other people that have been bitten by pits and they let them go. All dogs do the same thing. I would agree pits are dangerous. Just like any animal capable of killing a human is dangerous. I dont think its a conspiracy but it is mass hysteria very similar to the radio program War of the Worlds. Some people believe anything the media feeds them.


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Goddess_Ashtara said:
> 
> 
> > Letting children play with a Pitbull under your supervision is a vastly different scenario than going away and leaving them alone with the Pitbull while you are gone.
> ...



You said that pitbulls are "the best dog to have around kids". Now I wouldn't hesitate to leave kids around a well behaved golden retriever, nor would anyone else. You think pitbulls are even BETTER than golden retrievers, because again, you say they are "the best dogs for children", therefore one must conclude that you left your kids with your pitbulls alone, on many occasions. Furthermore, if you are saying that you DONT leave your pitbulls with your children alone, then you are supporting MY position since the start of this thread, which is "piutbulls are not good to have around kids". 

No matter which way you attempt to slither, you lose this debate. God damn you are a fucking child. This shit is easy!!!


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Goddess_Ashtara said:
> ...



So you admit you are one of those morons that would leave your kids around a dog alone? Just because you would leave your kids alone with an animal dont conclude I or any other person would. Assuming is what got you embarrassed the first time. Did you ever locate anywhere where I said I would be a idiot like you and leave my kids with a dog? We are all still waiting for your proof not your conclusions.


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## Godboy (Jul 26, 2014)

Asslsips loses a 23 page debate, then suddenly pretends like hes been saying the opposite the whole time. How are you not dying of embarrassment and shame?  You sir are a fool of the highest order. 

Thanks for playing chump.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Asslsips loses a 23 page debate, then suddenly pretends like hes been saying the opposite the whole time. How are you not dying of embarrassment and shame?  You sir are a fool of the highest order.
> 
> Thanks for playing chump.



There was never a debate. You said I left my kids alone with dogs. Not only could you not prove I said that, you actually admitted that was what you would do. 

You must be bright red with humiliation by now.  Hey. I told you to make sure you have your stuff straight going up against your superior. Thats what happens when you dont look before you leap.


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## TrainTime (Jul 26, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Goddess_Ashtara said:
> ...



Back before Goldens were overbred and overtaken by epilepsy and hip displacia, they were the PERFECT dog for pretty much everybody with a back yard.  Rowdy in a good way, eager to learn chores and tasks to do, they are the smartest dogs I've ever had or been around.  My female was hilarious!  She knew things I never taught her...she'd bring me her leash and stare at me saying "c'mon boss, I need to get my running in".  Soft mouthed, they'll swim until they find the duck you shot and bring it back without a tooth mark on it.  Loyal, but friendly.  Mine was a FAKE DOBERMAN out in the yard at night....the personality change after dark was remarkable...she hit the chain-link fence several times at folks walking by.  I never stopped her because I knew she wouldn't bite anybody and in 11 years she never did.  And she had 3 litters of AKC pups that paid for every scrap of food she ever ate.  I never got over her not being with me anymore.


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> WheelieAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Good for you and your experiences, I've had my own. If a pitt bites me I will stomp it to death, no fucks given.


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

Fuck off with your fighting dogs. They were bread for it dumbass.

http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

What breed of dogs did Michael Vick use in his fighting ring?


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

You can post your "well pitts arent the worst ever so they are average" links till your fingers fall off. They are an aggressive breed, they have killed children and adults. They were bread to fight and that is a fact. I watched one try to kill my own mother before I stomped the fucking thing. I should have finished the piece of shit off.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > WheelieAddict said:
> ...



Thats pretty impressive. Good luck with that.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Fuck off with your fighting dogs. They were *bread* for it dumbass.
> 
> http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php



You should never call someone a dumb ass without checking for spelling errors first dumb ass.  Its bred not bread like in a sandwich.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> What breed of dogs did Michael Vick use in his fighting ring?



Pit Bulls. They were fighting other dogs. Not humans. You can read here on how well some of them are doing even after the crap they went through with Vick.

http://parade.condenast.com/48473/jimgorant/15-vicks-dogs/



> Ernie was initially so stable and calm, he would be trotted out to test other dogs&#8217; friendliness. But once he got into the real world he struggled, reacting negatively to other dogs if he was on his leash. With time, he grew more comfortable and the problem worked itself out. He&#8217;s been adopted into a home where he lives with another dog and two cats and he earned his Canine Good Citizen certification in the fall of 2009.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> You can post your "well pitts arent the worst ever so they are average" links till your fingers fall off. They are an aggressive breed, they have killed children and adults. They were *bread* to fight and that is a fact. I watched one try to kill my own mother before I stomped the fucking thing. I should have finished the piece of shit off.



You did it again so I have to think this was not a typo but a failure to know what word you are using.  its bred as in past tense of breed. Yes they are pretty much average in aggressiveness.  Yes they have killed children and adults like other dogs have. You actually witnessed a pit attack a loved one. That doesnt make the entire breed the same dog that attacked your mother.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

warwulf said:


> .



I'm glad it happened to you in particular. Too bad it didnt get you as well. 

Jessica Alba disagrees with you.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Jessica Biel also thumbs her nose at you.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Rachel Ray. Is she white trash?  I know she cooks good.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Dont know who this is but they say she is famous. Fiona Applegate.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Kid from the hunger games has one too.  I didnt know he was white trash.


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## TrainTime (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> TrainTime said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



I'd imagine she is.....slept her way onto a TV show.....trash?  maybe...  tramp?  Oh yeah.   Who cares?  She ate everything she cooked and now she's a blimp.  Wait until the beast decides to take over her house....then we'll see how much she adores that pig-eyed fucking mess of a dog.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

OK this pretty much proves you are clueless. They dont get much whiter than this chick.


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## Gracie (Jul 26, 2014)

I hope you don't have a dog, Traintime. You're awful.


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> WheelieAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Fuck off with your fighting dogs. They were *bread* for it dumbass.
> ...



You got me in a dumbass moment of my own lol. Not changing my opinion of Pitts.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

Kevin Bacon loves him a pitbull.  Man you guys obviously are clueless about pit bull owners.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > WheelieAddict said:
> ...



I wasnt trying to get you to change your opinion. I was just proving your opinion was wrong. The rest is up to you.


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

Alright not all Pitts are bad. Just if you let them out or walk them please muzzle them. Good for everyone (except the dog, but the dog was bred to fight)


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Alright not all Pitts are bad. Just if you let them out or walk them please muzzle them. Good for everyone (except the dog, but the dog was bred to fight)



I wouldn't own a dog I had to muzzle.


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> WheelieAddict said:
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Well all I know is that out of all dogs I have been around-dobermans, rotts, shepherds, labs etc. none have i ever seen so violent as a pitt, ever. Not all of them are, but the fact remains it is a violent breed. I won't back down from that. Because it is fucking obvious lol.


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## WheelieAddict (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> WheelieAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Alright not all Pitts are bad. Just if you let them out or walk them please muzzle them. Good for everyone (except the dog, but the dog was bred to fight)
> ...




Just don't buy a Pitt (fighting dog) then.


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## Asclepias (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Asclepias said:
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Too late. I have 3 of them.


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## Yarddog (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Asclepias said:
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Pit owners just need to be extra cautious around kids,   I know i am escpecialy,  though I try to socialize him with them just in case he ever gets out of the yard somehow or gets loose.  I have also learned that you need to know what mode your dog is in and how to snap them out of a mode that you dont want. This guy here is about 95 percent in throw me the ball mode.  There are differences between pitts,  my neighbor down the street has one and I cant walk next to the chainlink fence without it charging the gate.  My dog,  a stranger can walk right in my back yard or front door and he doesnt care.  
  I still think over all it is a good breed, because there are still millions of these dogs who never hurt anyone,  and in many instances have protected people from violent crime, is that ever considered?  Yeah though she had many types of dogs, Helen keller even had a pitbull as a companion dog


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## Rozman (Jul 26, 2014)

WheelieAddict said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > WheelieAddict said:
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I can't remember the last time or better yet ever reading or hearing a story of a 
Lab or another breed mauling a child...

It always seems to be a pit bull...

I can't understand why anyone would want them as a pet.
I really can't understand why anyone would want them around a child.


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## Unkotare (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Unkotare said:
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> > Asclepias said:
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When you're _trying_ to come off as a pretentious pedant but you can't string together a proper sentence, the irony is just too rich.


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## 9thIDdoc (Jul 26, 2014)

*Pit bulls are safe around children!*

Well, yes, the pit bulls are safe but the children are in deep do-do.


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## guno (Jul 26, 2014)

Noomi said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> > I agree. It's like saying you can keep a bomb in your house and as long as you treat it properly, there is no problem, but if something goes wrong k-boom and someone is dead or seriously injured.  The love of pitbulls is completely irrational.  The breed needs to be made extinct.
> ...



We have had both Pitts an Rotties never a problem,  they were protective of the children, now we have female Pitt  and is great with the grand kids, Like with any other breed people should not inbreed them so be careful of the breeder if you buy


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## Yarddog (Jul 26, 2014)

guno said:


> Noomi said:
> 
> 
> > Esmeralda said:
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I wonder if the breeding has something to do with the temperment between dogs. i notice some Pitbulls look very different from each other, the one i have seems built as a runner but I see some of them that look like tanks and will knock you over if they run into you, and then there are the brindles with the tiger stripes. Also the age that they are fixed may also 
have something to do with it. People have told me my dog was probably fixed a little to young because he still behaves like a puppy, while hes probably between 2 and three years of age.


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## earlycuyler (Jul 26, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > Asslickius provides the perfect example of someone who should not own a pit bull or any other breed of dog. Irrational, irresponsible punks like him are not fit to steward any of God's creatures.
> ...



Yup.


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## earlycuyler (Jul 26, 2014)

Yarddog said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> > Noomi said:
> ...



Breeding has everything to do with it. The pits you see im most pics in this thread are no t pits at all, but instead products of line breeding and cross breeding to produce the 100 pound monsters called pit bulls today. And many of the mixed things that are doing most of the biting that makes the news today. For years breeders have attempted to clean up the lines and get back to the real pit bulls. They have also been culling puppies that have shown dog/human aggressiveness and focus on the best quality of the breed. The same was done with Dobies, Shepherds, Rotts, name the breed. With all of them there are two things that are consistent. One group sees fit to infringe others rights while they pissed and moan about theirs being messed with. The others are the apologists for the breed who mean well, but do more harm then good. Bad dogs need to be killed. Good dogs need to be bread. And so you know, no amount of love and trainning will help the breed. Just a fact.


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## Goddess_Ashtara (Jul 26, 2014)

earlycuyler said:


> Bad dogs need to be killed. Good dogs need to be bread. And so you know, no amount of love and trainning will help the breed. Just a fact.



There you Mundanes go with your delusions of "good" and "bad" again.  The ignorance of Homo Hubris knows no bounds.


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## Yarddog (Jul 26, 2014)

Rozman said:


> WheelieAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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well the pit I have is definately sweeter than any German Shepard I have ever seen. It may have something to do with how damn smart he is, He opens the sliding glass door by himself, and my sliding back truck window,  when I first got him , I found him waiting in the bed of my truck after he figured how to get it open somehow.
  Im cautious with him around Kids.. just because. But the ones he knows he greets everytime with the tinniest of licks,  Ive taken him to the dog park,  he doesnt run after other dogs. Well hes always on leash there,  but I take him off to catch the ball. He has had his moments of growling at other large dogs, but never the little ones. He seems to know the difference

The only incident was when a German Shepherd got to his ball first and ran over to its owner.  My pit followed, and as I arrived the guy gave my dog the ball back .... at which the Shephard attacked my Pit.  I had hustled over there so just arrived as it happened and grabbed my dog by its harness and easily pulled him away, ..what I couldnt do was stop the other guys shepherd from attacking because the other guy lost control of his leash, while i was holding my dog off the ground.  All in all they just raked teeth and got a few scratches. 

Why would someone want a pit as a pet?  Why do people want any dog for a pet? I guess you have to have one to know.  Maybe its a human failing.


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## ChrisL (Jul 26, 2014)

Wake said:


> I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.
> 
> They're not evil, but misunderstood. It is the owner who abuses the dogs that is to blame here.



I agree Wake, and I think that no one should ever leave a small child unattended with any dog anyways because anything can happen.  I've heard of an incident before where a child was tangled in the leash of a dog while unattended and strangled to death.


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## Yarddog (Jul 26, 2014)

ChrisL said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.
> ...



Yeah, maybe their just to strong,  and also you never know if the kid might pull on its tail or poke it in thhe face. thats  th ething that worries me the most,  otherwise a dog wouldnt have much reason to attack a kid it knows .


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## ChrisL (Jul 26, 2014)

Yarddog said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



My cousin had a pit bull, and I have a story but I don't want to make sound like I'm fear mongering because I don't think such behavior is just limited to the pit bull breed.  I think attacks can happen with really any dog.  Like someone mentioned already, some people treat their animals mean too, which can contribute, and since the pit bull does have the reputation it has, you know that SOME people who get them are not getting them for the right reasons necessarily.  

Anyway, I would never leave a small child alone with any dog.


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## Bfgrn (Aug 5, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> WheelieAddict said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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Bullshit. 

The pit bull's genetic traits are not in dispute. Many appellate courts agree that pit bulls pose a significant danger to society and can be regulated accordingly. *Some of the genetic traits courts have identified include: unpredictability of aggression, tenacity ("gameness" the refusal to give up a fight), high pain tolerance and the pit bull's "hold and shake" bite style. According to forensic medical studies, similar injuries have only been found elsewhere on victims of shark attacks.
*
Perpetuators of this myth also cannot account for the many instances in which pit bull owners and family members are victimized by their pet dogs. *From 2005 to 2013, pit bulls killed 176 Americans, about one citizen every 18.6 days. *Of these deaths, 52% involved a family member and a household pit bull. Notably, in the first 8 months of 2011, nearly half of those killed by a pit bull was its owner. One victim was an "avid supporter" of Bad Rap, a recipient of Michael Vick's dogs.


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## Wake (Aug 5, 2014)

I've been bitten by a pit bull before, and I can say with certainty that they can and do let go. 

Best not to believe everything one hears on the internet. Firsthand experience is valuable.


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## Bfgrn (Aug 5, 2014)

Wake said:


> I've been bitten by a pit bull before, and I can say with certainty that they can and do let go.
> 
> Best not to believe everything one hears on the internet. Firsthand experience is valuable.



And I was attacked by my pit. He would have killed me if my son, daughter and wife didn't intervene.

STOP spewing garbage.


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## Wake (Aug 5, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > I've been bitten by a pit bull before, and I can say with certainty that they can and do let go.
> ...



I think you should approach this issue with a calm mind.

The argument in this thread is that all pit bulls are dangerous and in need of regulation.

The hyped up lies and misinformation notwithstanding, there are many sweet, loving, gentle, good-natured pit bulls out there. What is nonsense is people completely ignoring that it's bad people who make dogs aggressive, strong, and violent.


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## Godboy (Aug 5, 2014)

Wake said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



Is every pitbull a danger to the people around it? Maybe, maybe not, but until someone comes up with a machine that can tell us which ones are going to attack, they should all be banned. Theres a reason why its illegal to have tigers as pets, and I believe pitbulls should be illegal for the same reason.


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## Bfgrn (Aug 5, 2014)

Wake said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
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You are talking out of your ass. 

I have had dogs all my life. I did nothing to "make that dog aggressive, strong, and violent"

You truly are an IDIOT


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## Bfgrn (Aug 5, 2014)

The Front Burner: Banning pit bulls saves lives and protects the innocent
May 24, 2013

Whether to ban pit bulls is a human health and safety issue that should be steered by health and safety officials. Public safety is not the profession of animal advocates. Thus, public policy coming from animal advocates concerning protecting humans from pit bulls is fundamentally flawed.

So far this year, 13 of the 14 Americans who have been killed by dogs  93 percent  were killed by pit bulls and pit mixes. This is well above the average of 60 percent from 2005 to 2012.

As the pit bull population rises, more human fatalities ensue. During the last eight-year period that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studied fatal attacks by breed (1991 to 1998), pit bulls were estimated at 1 percent of the U.S. dog population. Pit bulls killed an average of three people per year.

The pit bull population has since grown to 4 percent. During the most recent eight-year period (2005-12), pit bulls killed an average of 19 people per year.

Miami-Dade County, which banned pit bulls in 1989, has avoided this loss of life. Other Florida counties  prohibited by state law from regulating dogs by breed  continue to experience deaths and disfigurements due to pit bulls. Since 1989, 18 Florida citizens have been killed by pit bulls  none within Miami-Dade.

The threat from pit bulls results from the combination of the animals' inclination to attack without warning  an essential trait of fighting dogs  and the type of injuries that pit bulls typically inflict.

Most dogs bite and retreat, but pit bulls have a hold-and-shake bite style, and tenaciously refuse to stop an attack once begun.

Often a pit bull releases its grip only when dead  the trait dog fighters describe as being "dead game."

Ban opponents often blame dismembering and fatal attacks on environmental factors, such as neglect. That, unfortunately, is the plight of too many dogs of all breeds, not just those who kill and maim.

Opponents also fail to distinguish dog-bite-injury severity. They argue that bans "do not reduce all dog bites." Of the 4.7 million Americans bitten by dogs each year, 9,500 require hospitalization for severe dog-bite injuries. The most extreme injury level, mauling injury, requires life-saving procedures at trauma centers.

The purpose of a pit bull ban is to eradicate mauling injuries and deaths inflicted by pit bulls, the breed involved in more than half of all severe and mauling attacks.

Since 1986, 18 appellate decisions have upheld lower-court findings that pit bulls are more dangerous than other dog breeds.

Since 1988, four peer-reviewed studies published in leading medical journals have reviewed the severity of pit bull injury. "Mortality, Mauling and Maiming by Vicious Dogs," published in the Annals of Surgery in 2011, concluded the following:

"Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the U.S. mortality rates related to dog bites."

In April 2012, the highest court in Maryland declared pit bulls "inherently dangerous," altering common law pertaining to pit bull attacks. Pit bulls are prima facia dangerous in Maryland and held to a strict liability standard. In instances of a tenant's pit bull attacking, this liability extends to the landlord. The court cited the entire abstract of the 2011 Annals of Surgery study in its opinion.

Influential pit bull advocates have supported regulation in the past and are doing so now. On its Facebook page, the Villalobos Rescue Center, founded by Tia Torres of Animal Planet's Pit Bulls & Parolees  expressed support for a proposal in Louisiana on the heels of a mutilating attack on a woman by her own pit bulls.

It is time for Florida pit bull advocacy groups to follow suit.


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## Godboy (Aug 5, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



I never heard your actually story. How did you get the dog off you first off, then what did you do after getting it off of you? Did you put it down yourself, or take it somewhere to have it done?


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## auditor0007 (Aug 6, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...



I know many people with pit bulls and they are great dogs.  That being said, there is no way I would own one with children younger than teenagers.  While any dog can turn or just get too rough, pit bulls are extremely powerful and their jaws can crush a child easily.  The risk far outweighs any possible benefit of owning one if you have young kids.  For adults without kids, or with teenagers, I think it's a personal decision.  Again, these dogs are usually great pets if raised properly.


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## Asclepias (Aug 6, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
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Tigers are not domesticated animals dumbass.


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## Asclepias (Aug 6, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > WheelieAddict said:
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Doesnt matter what appellate courts agree. They are not experts. The fact is the dog is not people aggressive specifically because they were bred that way.  If you knew anything at all about the history of the breed it would be impossible to fight them according to the rules if they were people aggressive.  Your story is full of holes and contradictions.  If the dog had a high pain tolerance why would stepping on his neck make it let go?  How did you get the pit off you if it didnt let go?


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## Godboy (Aug 6, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
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Mike Tysons tigers slept in his bed with him every night. Id say they are about as domesticated as these pitbulls.


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## Asclepias (Aug 6, 2014)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
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You would say a lot of stupid things. That doesnt make them correct just because you said it.


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## Mertex (Aug 6, 2014)

Asclepias said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...




It is a fact that a pitbull's bite is lethal, and if antagonized or frightened, any dog could bite...and the pit bull's bite is different and can kill or maim quickly.  Probably why most pit bull owners have them heavily chained.  I would be very cautious about allowing children around any pit bull, no matter how nice it was brought up because,  even though the owner of the pit bull is doing all the right things, unless he knows the history of the dog and its ancestors, he don't know if the aggressive traits were passed on and part of his makeup.


Todays pit bull is a descendant of the original English bull-baiting doga dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head.  When baiting large animals was outlawed in the 1800s, people turned instead to fighting their dogs against each other. These larger, slower bull-baiting dogs were crossed with smaller, quicker terriers to produce a more agile and athletic dog for fighting other dogs.

Some pit bulls were selected and bred for their fighting ability. That means that they may be more likely than other breeds to fight with dogs. It doesnt mean that they cant be around other dogs or that theyre unpredictably aggressive.  Other pit bulls were specifically bred for work and companionship. These dogs have long been popular family pets, noted for their gentleness, affection and loyalty. And even those pit bulls bred to fight other animals were not prone to aggressiveness toward people. Dogs used for fighting needed to be routinely handled by people; therefore aggression toward people was not tolerated. Any dog that behaved aggressively toward a person was culled, or killed, to avoid passing on such an undesirable trait. Research on pet dogs confirms that dog aggressive dogs are no more likely to direct aggression toward people than dogs that arent aggressive to other dogs.

*It is likely that that the vast majority of pit bull type dogs in our communities today are the result of random breedingtwo dogs being mated without  regard to the behavioral traits being passed on to their offspring. * The result of random breeding is a population of dogs with a wide range of behavioral predispositions. For this reason it is important to evaluate and treat each dog, no matter its breed, as an individual.
Position Statement on Pit Bulls | ASPCA


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## Diana1180 (Aug 6, 2014)

Proud owner of a Pit bull, German shepard, Rottweiler and an 8lb Morkie.

Mindy (the Morkie) rules the roost.... the rest are big babies.

Am i careful with them around strangers? yes, of course... any one of the 4 will attack if they feel threatened.


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## Wake (Aug 6, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



I can understand your own personal experience with that pit bull, Bfgrn, and I'm going to respect you by not downplaying or denying the scary experience that you had. You did nothing to make the dog aggressive, strong, or violent, and I believe you. What should be explored is when the dog in question was bought. There is a chance that it was abused before you bought it; I can't say, and whatever you assert I'll assume as truth.

But even past that, if the dog did snap and wasn't mistreated, that was from that dog alone. I too have owned a few dogs, from cocker spaniels to pit bulls, from pink-bellied puppies, and none have snapped at me, ever. Bfgrn, I feel there are good pit bulls out there that aren't inclined to snap or react unpredictably. I can't explain or understand why your dog did what it did without more information.

You're not a person that abuses dogs, or hurts them to make them vicious guards. I do ask that you consider not demonizing every dog in the breed based on the actions of some. You've had a negative experience with a pit, and I have had multiple positive experiences with pits. That in no way downplays your experience, or makes your opinion less valid. I just think it's not fair to want to ban me from owning pit bulls, or call my dogs bad, based on the actions of other dogs. There is good, and there is bad. There are also many variables unsaid. 

My experience with the breed has been good overall. Yours hasn't. I think we can both learn a lot and understand the world a little better if we continued talking about this.


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## Mertex (Aug 6, 2014)

I respect that some of you like and defend pit bulls and want to claim that they are no more dangerous than other dogs.  The data clearly supports the fact that pit bulls are more dangerous than other dogs.  I hope your pit bull doesn't turn on you, it would be your own fault if he ever does.  The facts are pretty convincing.  Keep telling yourself that your pit bull couldn't hurt a fly, but please don't let him near children, especially children that are not your own.


Report: U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006
to December 2008
A 2009 report issued by DogsBite.org shows that 19 dog breeds contributed to 88 deaths in a recent 3-year period. *Pit bulls accounted for 59%* followed by rottweilers with 14%.
*Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52).* This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period.
*The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death.* Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property,* yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).*


http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics.php


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## MDiver (Aug 6, 2014)

I'm glad to hear that the pit bulls are safe around children.  I was concerned about the little monsters bludgeoning the poor dogs to death.


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## Wolfsister77 (Aug 6, 2014)

When I volunteered at the Humane Society here we had strict requirements on Pit Bull adoptions. You were required to sign up for an obedience class, the dogs were temperment tested, spayed or neutered, and they were not allowed to be adopted out to any household with children under 8.

This was for the benefit of the dog and the children in the home. There are other breeds that are not good with kids. Chows, Akitas, etc.

All breeds can have specific dogs that are nice as can be and all dogs can have a crap owner that turns them into a terrible dog.

All dogs, especially these large, aggressive dogs, need firm handling and something to do to occupy their time. Many pits are not good around other dogs or cats. There are always exceptions.

I hear more horror stories about Rottweilers around here killing people than pits but you hear it about both breeds. 

I blame the owners because they are responsible for keeping their aggressive dogs in a proper enclosure but still the dogs can and do escape and can and do injure and kill people and kids. Will all dogs do this? Nope. But it only takes one to make a bad name for the entire breed and you hear a lot more about Pits attacking than other breeds.

I used to work in a Vet clinic years ago. We'd give the same advice out to people about all these large breed dogs and that is they need obedience training, lots of exercise, and an owner that has the time to take care of them properly. I hate when people get dogs and then tie them up outside and ignore them. This can make a dog aggressive and unsocial. A really bad combination.


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## Noomi (Aug 6, 2014)

I see many so called 'dangerous' dogs around town. Ain't never been attacked by any of them don't expect to, either.


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## blackhawk (Aug 6, 2014)

If a parent is abusive and violent with their child  it's a good bet the child will grow up to be the same way why would be any different if dog is raised that way? Some dogs have more aggressive natures than other's it's up to the owner to know this and understand how to raise and handle the dog.


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## ChrisL (Aug 6, 2014)

blackhawk said:


> If a parent is abusive and violent with their child  it's a good bet the child will grow up to be the same way why would be any different if dog is raised that way? Some dogs have more aggressive natures than other's it's up to the owner to know this and understand how to raise and handle the dog.



That's a good point, but in the case of my cousin who was attacked by her pit, it was just an old dog, and they think it just got confused and didn't recognize her.


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## blackhawk (Aug 6, 2014)

ChrisL said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> > If a parent is abusive and violent with their child  it's a good bet the child will grow up to be the same way why would be any different if dog is raised that way? Some dogs have more aggressive natures than other's it's up to the owner to know this and understand how to raise and handle the dog.
> ...



Could be what people have to understand is dogs much like people have their own personalities and have to be treated accordingly pit bulls and labs are both dogs but have very different personalities.


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## ChrisL (Aug 6, 2014)

blackhawk said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > blackhawk said:
> ...



Oh sure, I agree.  My only point is that sometimes a person can be a good dog handler and still be attacked because it just happens sometimes.  Animals can't talk to you, and they can be unpredictable at times.  That is why, earlier in the thread, I said that I don't think it would ever be a good idea to leave a young child alone with ANY dog.


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## blackhawk (Aug 6, 2014)

ChrisL said:


> blackhawk said:
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> > ChrisL said:
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True.


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## ChrisL (Aug 6, 2014)

blackhawk said:


> ChrisL said:
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I heard a story once about a child who was playing in his yard with his dog which was tied and somehow the leash got twisted around the boy's neck and strangled him, so accidents can happen, especially when it's a little one.


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## AntiParty (Aug 6, 2014)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...



I have a hard time with people who want to ban things they don't want to put effort into. 

Why ban a dog but save a kitty in the subway? And what does "ban" actually mean? Kill them or?

Knowing the history of Pitbulls is important in this case to debate. But people have to decide, are they inherently violent or are they just many classifications of humans that have been put through hard times and react in the wrong way sometimes. 

Again, what does "ban" mean in your perspective? I have no emotion tied to this, I'd gladly shoot any significantly dangerous animal. But is this what you mean?


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## Bfgrn (Aug 7, 2014)

Wake said:


> Bfgrn said:
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I had all positive experiences with my pit bull until Buddy tried to kill me. What did I do to provoke him? I picked up his walking leash from the floor in the dining room. My wife had dusted the furniture and forgot to put it back on top of the cabinet. Picking up his leash should have created a positive response from Buddy. He loved to go for a walk. 

I am just thankful that it was me and not my wife, daughter or son who decided to pick up Buddy's leash. My right leg looks like I stepped on a land mine. I am an old fart but my daughter is a beautiful young girl who wears dresses and shorts in the summer.

We got Buddy as a young puppy and raised him with the same love we have for all our dogs past and present. Ironically Buddy was the most affectionate dog I ever had. He loved to snuggle and would try to crawl up on my stomach when I would lay on the couch.

You object to generalizations about pit bulls, and replace it with generalizations about owners. People understand the reason for the aggression of pit bulls raised by the Michael Vicks of the world. But that doesn't explain the sudden aggression of properly raised pit bulls, or the much higher incidents of fatal and maiming attacks by pit bulls.

I highly DOUBT Darla Napora was a 'Michael Vicks' type pit bull owner...

Darla Napor would probably argue right with you and be advocating for this extremely dangerous breed. Herein lies the problem. She is DEAD.

Darla Napora: Pregnant woman dies after being mauled by pet dog in living room | Mail Online








Victim was member of 'Dog Lovers Responsible About Pit Bulls'


Two-year-old pitbull terrier shot after charging at police
 

Husband finds Darla Napora's body drenched in blood
 

Victim suffered dozens of bites to her body and face

A pregnant woman who was mauled to death by one of her pet pit bull terriers belonged to group campaigning to convince people that the animals aren't dangerous, it has emerged.

Darla Napora, 32, was bitten dozens of times and found by her husband Greg covered in blood outstretched on their living room floor in Pacifica, California.

Police say the two-year-old unneutered pit bull believed to be responsible was hovering around the woman, who had major injuries to her upper body and face.

The Napora's next door neighbor surprisingly said the dogs had always been well behaved.

'We shared a fence with them and if our dogs were barking at each other she'd call them off and they'd back off. They responded very well.'

For Greg Napora the tragic attack came out of the blue as they had had the dog since it was a puppy.

Police said there were no prior problems at the household and no reason to expect the dog attack.



Read this, it is written by doctors who treat these horrible attacks.

Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs


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## ChrisL (Aug 7, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Wake said:
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Ugh, how horrible.


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## Mertex (Aug 8, 2014)

Bfgrn said:


> Wake said:
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Thanks for sharing your unfortunate experience with your pet pit bull, and the terrible thing that happened to that beautiful girl, Darla.  Unfortunately, many people are of the opinion that something like that could never happen to them, and I hope it never does, but until it does, they will continue to feel invincible and argue that it has to do with the way the dogs are raised.  My only hope is that their dogs don't end up hurting innocent people.....just because they believed that their dog would never hurt anyone.


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## Bfgrn (Jan 5, 2015)

Indiana man mauled to death by his pit bull on Christmas Day - NY Daily News


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

80% of these owners are white trash or black gangsta's.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

btw, no disrespect meant to the guy above but how did a pitbull maul an adult man? Was he asleep?


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## Inevitable (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> btw, no disrespect meant to the guy above but how did a pitbull maul an adult man? Was he asleep?


You don't think a dog could maul you?


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## WinterBorn (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> btw, no disrespect meant to the guy above but how did a pitbull maul an adult man? Was he asleep?



If you are going to survive an attack by an adult pitbull, you better be prepared from the beginning.  Otherwise you will lose.


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## Iceweasel (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> btw, no disrespect meant to the guy above but how did a pitbull maul an adult man? Was he asleep?


I was going to ask just that. Seems like a big dude too. Even asleep you wake up pretty fast.


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## Iceweasel (Jan 6, 2015)

WinterBorn said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > btw, no disrespect meant to the guy above but how did a pitbull maul an adult man? Was he asleep?
> ...


I don't agree. I'm not going to test it out to prove you wrong but a dog only has one weapon. If I was attacked unarmed I'd poke both his eyes out if he had a hold of me and wring his neck.


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## Luddly Neddite (Jan 6, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Yeah. Right.

You don't have a frikken clue.


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## Luddly Neddite (Jan 6, 2015)

Mertex said:


> Bfgrn said:
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Not just pit bulls but I think people's attitudes about their dogs is very like how some see guns. 

Every time there's a news story about either, the reactions are the same. "I don't know, he was always fine before", "I taught my kids how to be safe", "my dog would never do that", "my dog/gun is safe".

Complete denial and then they go on as before.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Jan 6, 2015)

We have a pitbull & a beagle mix. The beagle is more aggressive than our pit. The pit can be aggressive towards other animals but not in the least towards humans.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 6, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> WinterBorn said:
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Wringing the neck of a pit bull would be almost impossible for one person, unless you got on his back.  And usually, an arm is what is grabbed first.  So one arm is useless, since the pit will have crushed those bones.

Going for the eyes requires getting by the one weapon.   One of the things we were taught in a class some years ago is that dogs hate having their feet hurt.   But this was a pet that lost it.  So the dog gets at least one shot before you know you are being attacked for real.


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## Katzndogz (Jan 6, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> WinterBorn said:
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I hope you would not actually fight a pit bull by wringing its neck.  You would surely lose.  The neck of a pit bull is ringed by a thick muscle.


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## Remodeling Maidiac (Jan 6, 2015)

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz68/jmstile/IMAG0110.jpg


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## Katzndogz (Jan 6, 2015)

Luddly Neddite said:


> Mertex said:
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If you put a gun on the floor in the middle of your living room it will stay there forever.   The gun is absolutely safe.  It is as safe as a can opener.  A pit bull is a living thing.  It is not a can opener.  

Pit bulls need to be neutered and spayed to begin to be household pets.  They will still be  unpredictable.   An American Staffordshire Terrier is not an innately vicious breed.    Breeders might well have inbred the dogs too much resulting in unpredictable behavior.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 6, 2015)

Silhouette said:


> I think the breed originated as war dogs, bred to attack and kill humans.  Certainly the Germans developed a couple of those breeds as did many other cultures.  My friend had a doberman who are unpredictable in the same way.  The family praised the creature, a female who basically was easy going if weird.  Then one day for no apparent reason the dog up and viciously attacked my friend.  They had to give it away or put it down.  If forget.  It was a long time ago.



Utterly false.

The breed originated as pets. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is the dog from "Our Gang," associated with children from the start. 






American Pit Bulls were bred from the Staffies and commonly used as fighting dogs. The "Pit" in the name refers to the ring used for dog fights. The breed is only about a hundred years old, to say they were bred for war is absurd. They were bred to kill rats in England (Staffies) and were house pets because of their ability to keep the rodents out. This is what associated them with Children.

Pits are no more aggressive than any other dog. Sadly, thug culture has often made them accessories to show how tough someone is. 

It is indeed how they are raised, and how badly they are inbred.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

Silhouette said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...


No they didnt originate as war dogs. They were used as bull baiting dogs and later as fighting dogs. The breed was developed to the point that a total stranger could handle the fighting dog without fear of being bitten.  Helen Keller had one as a pet.


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## Uncensored2008 (Jan 6, 2015)

Tipsycatlover said:


> I hope you would not actually fight a pit bull by wringing its neck.  You would surely lose.  The neck of a pit bull is ringed by a thick muscle.



Wow.

When fight a dog, you kick. Always kick. A human has range, it's a huge advantage. Keep the dog at bay with hard kicks.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Silhouette said:
> 
> 
> > I think the breed originated as war dogs, bred to attack and kill humans.  Certainly the Germans developed a couple of those breeds as did many other cultures.  My friend had a doberman who are unpredictable in the same way.  The family praised the creature, a female who basically was easy going if weird.  Then one day for no apparent reason the dog up and viciously attacked my friend.  They had to give it away or put it down.  If forget.  It was a long time ago.
> ...


No the Staffie is not the same as the English bull terrier you have pictured in your post.  Also the original Petey was an APBT not a Staffie. The later one was an AmStaff which is different from a Staffie as well.  Here is a Staffie (from England)


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## Godboy (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> The breed was developed to the point that a total stranger could handle the fighting dog without fear of being bitten.


Is honesty simply out of the question for you? Why do you constantly make up bullshit? Don't you even realize how fucking stupid you look when you make statements like that?


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > The breed was developed to the point that a total stranger could handle the fighting dog without fear of being bitten.
> ...


Do you realize how stupid you look not knowing anything about the breed or its history? As usual you are a idiot.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 6, 2015)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
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> > The breed was developed to the point that a total stranger could handle the fighting dog without fear of being bitten.
> ...



When he states something that is true and you make the statement you did, it makes you not only look stupid, but like an asshole as well.

2 birds with one stone.


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## Godboy (Jan 6, 2015)

WinterBorn said:


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The only stupid asshole here is you. Just ask around.


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## Godboy (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
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No one is buying your retarded fake history  You cant just make shit up and not expect to be called out on it.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

Godboy said:


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I am amused you are this dumb. I bet you couldnt point out a pitbull if your life depended on it.


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## emilynghiem (Jan 6, 2015)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...


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## Godboy (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
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I bet you cant provide real proof of your claim if your life depended on it.


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## emilynghiem (Jan 6, 2015)

Hi Godboy
I agree the average person or even professional breeders
cannot always tell the difference between a dangerous pitbull from another.

Here's a nonprofit group where a professional screener and trainer
CAN tell the difference, and will only select obedient pitbulls to train
as service dogs and companions for Veterans:
Operation Pits Healing Heroes

I would require THIS level of screening for pitbulls to be allowed.

People who want them should support this level of support and responsibility.
Not impose on others who didn't ask to be responsible for all that.


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## emilynghiem (Jan 6, 2015)

Wake said:


> I've lived with pitbulls and, if they're raised with love, they are the most loving animals out there.
> 
> They're not evil, but misunderstood. It is the owner who abuses the dogs that is to blame here.



Great! But the same way we require safety standards for guns,
we should have requirements for pit bull owners and breeders also.

See my other post to Godboy where I found a screening and training
program I would trust to tell the difference, and recognize dogs that are risks
and those that are so safe they would train them to help Vets with PTSD.

if that program can be replicated and required, that would eliminate 99% of the problem.
There is always a chance something goes wrong, sure, with any dog or pet or risk,
but it should not be any worse than other types of risks.

At this point, we would have already yelled and screamed at a car company
if their vehicles had this record of something killing someone
"if a certain part wasn't maintained right by a responsible owner."


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
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> > Godboy said:
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It's always fun proving you to be the idiot everyone already knows you are. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The Fighting Dogs That Were Actually Bred To Be Friendly - KnowledgeNuts

" Before the fight, the contestants actually exchange dogs and bathe them to make sure that no one has cheated and rubbed any kind of irritant into the fur. Allowing such intimate handling by a stranger indicates a dog of steady nerves."

"During the fight itself, there are at least three people in the pit at any given time—the owners and a referee, sometimes others. Contrary to popular belief, the dogs do not just go at it until one surrenders or dies. They are frequently pulled apart by their owners and returned to “scratch” lines at opposite sides of the pit. Again, this requires very intimate contact with the dogs, often while they are in extreme pain. Anyone who has ever handled an injured dog, even a trusted family pet, can attest that they often lash out on blind instinct. The pit bull has been bred over generations to override that instinct, allowing handling even with torn ears and broken bones, even as it slips into hypovolemic shock."

Pit Bull Rescue Central

As Malcolm Gladwell (author of _The Tipping Point_, _Blink_ and _Outliers_) explains in an article published in The New Yorker in 2006:_ “Pit bulls were not bred to fight humans. On the contrary: a dog that went after spectators, or its handler, or the trainer, or any of the other people involved in making a dogfighting dog a good dogfighter was usually put down. (The rule in the pit-bull world was ‘Man-eaters die.’)”
_
10 Common Misconceptions About Pit Bulls

"Since Pits were bred to fight dogs in a ring, the owners had to make certain they would not turn on them when they went in to stop the fight. Imagine a dog, so riled up from fighting and very aggressive, who was able to then turn it off when his human appeared in the pit. "


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## emilynghiem (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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Sorry Aclepias but there is not enough guarantee of the competence of owners and breeders
to make sure they pick, breed and train their pitbulls to be this type.

I would trust the pro's who handle the Veteran group pit rescues
and are training the best dogs to be obedient.

They sound like they know what they are doing, and are committed to the Vets' care FIRST
and NOT trying to promote an agenda with pitbulls. They are rescuing pitbulls also, but not at the expense of 
the integrity of their program.

There cannot be a conflict of interest, on either side, or the propaganda can fly back and forth.

It depends on the dog, if it can be trained or not, or if it has a problem or poses a risk.

The Veteran program recognizes this, and screens the pitbulls carefully they select for training for Veterans.
They don't expect the Veterans to be able to train the dogs, they use professional trainers and screeners for that.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

emilynghiem said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


I'm not getting your point? What does that have to do with the dogs being bred specifically not to attack strangers have to do with incompetent owners?  

Not everyone should own a pit unless they know their history as a breed and know how to handle dogs period regardless of breed. A Chihuahua with incompetent owners is one thing. A pit bull with incompetent owner is a entirely different story as they are capable of killing an adult and keeping up a sustained attack long enough to do major damage. Just like German Shepherds, Rotties, and Dobermans people over breed them due to popularity and dont cull the ones with bad temperaments.  A psychotic dog is dangerous no matter what the breed.


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## iamwhatiseem (Jan 6, 2015)

From 2005 to 2013 Pitbulls and Rotweillers accounted for 74% of all dog biting deaths in America according to the CDC.
So anyone saying that Pits and other large bull terrier breeds are not more dangerous than other breeds are fooling themselves. The facts do not lie. And the above is the facts.
  The biggest problem with Pits are still the owners however. 
They are not for the inexperienced or beginner dog owners. And should not be allowed to be given to anyone other than people who can prove past experience.
 I fully support that all Pit/Rott owners to have to carry liability insurance and there should be increased criminal penalties for all owners if they injure anyone.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

Pit Bulls Pass ATTS Temperament Test With 86.4 

"According to the American Temperament Test Society (2010-2011), 804 American Pit Bull Terriers were tested and 695 passed.  This means that 86.4% of Pit Bulls tested by the ATTS had a good temperament.  Pit Bulls pass rating was above 121 other breeds of dogs, including Golden Retrievers!"

Description of the Temperament Test American Temperament Test Society Inc.

*Subtest 1: Neutral stranger*
*A stranger to the dog approaches the handler, shakes hands with the handler and engages the handler in a brief conversation, ignoring the dog.
The purpose of this subtest is to evaluate the dog’s reaction to passive socialization and the dog’s protective instinct.*

*Subtest 2: Friendly stranger*
*A stranger to the dog approaches happily and briskly, is very friendly to the dog and pets the dog.
The purpose of this subtest is to evaluate the dog’s active social skills.*


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## iamwhatiseem (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Pit Bulls Pass ATTS Temperament Test With 86.4
> 
> "According to the American Temperament Test Society (2010-2011), 804 American Pit Bull Terriers were tested and 695 passed.  This means that 86.4% of Pit Bulls tested by the ATTS had a good temperament.  Pit Bulls pass rating was above 121 other breeds of dogs, including Golden Retrievers!"



See my post above....sorry Charlie.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

iamwhatiseem said:


> From 2005 to 2013 Pitbulls and Rotweillers accounted for 74% of all dog biting deaths in America according to the CDC.
> So anyone saying that Pits and other large bull terrier breeds are not more dangerous than other breeds are fooling themselves. The facts do not lie. And the above is the facts.
> The biggest problem with Pits are still the owners however.
> They are not for the inexperienced or beginner dog owners. And should not be allowed to be given to anyone other than people who can prove past experience.
> I fully support that all Pit/Rott owners to have to carry liability insurance and there should be increased criminal penalties for all owners if they injure anyone.


I agree with most of your post but the problem is that most people have no clue what a pitbull is. Most experts have a hard time figuring it out.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Pit Bulls Pass ATTS Temperament Test With 86.4
> ...


You dont have to be sorry you just have to prove any of the dogs cited as pitbulls were actually pit bulls.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 6, 2015)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Pit Bulls Pass ATTS Temperament Test With 86.4
> ...



Your post above speaks only to the number of fatal attacks.   The pit is bred to have a very high pain tolerance and to have incredible jaw strength.  This does not mean they attack more often.  Only that their attacks, even though they are infrequent, tend to be far more serious.

Pits are no where near the top of the most aggressive breeds or most likely to bite.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 6, 2015)

Godboy said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
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If you will read the information in post #452 you will see you were wrong.  And I am not an asshole for taking jerks to task for their ignorance and their hostility.


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## iamwhatiseem (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > From 2005 to 2013 Pitbulls and Rotweillers accounted for 74% of all dog biting deaths in America according to the CDC.
> ...



Semantics. What you are saying is not important.
The American Staffordshire, the "true" Pit bull is not what is being talked about, yes it is true that many "bully breeds" are not technically pit bulls - but the name "Pitbull" is commonly used to describe "bullies". 
What is important is for everyone to know that "pitbulls" should only be for experienced dog owners.


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## emilynghiem (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
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> > Asclepias said:
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I'm just saying that if pitpulls were required to go through the same screening and
training as those approved for the Veterans' program, I personally would trust those pitbulls to be safe and trained.
So any person can handle that pitbull, knowing it's not going to have risks that would have gotten it screened out.

If you have different standards, and would require this training and screening for ALL dogs
great! I"m sure your neighborhood would be even safer.

I think districts can decide for themselves what level of screening to require.

some may be okay with pitbulls with or without screening.

But some with small kids or elderly, or residents afraid of dogs,
may require screening and training to meet their local ordinances.
If someone complains it isn't fair to profile pitbulls, I totally agree
with your idea to screen and train ALL dogs or ALL pets for dangerous risks.

I know a couple who keep boa's and other snakes, so yes, I would require residents like them to be registered and knowledgeable, and not irresponsible amateurs who don't know poisonous snakes from this one or that one, and who aren't committing any kind of animal abuse either.

Instead of trying to make one policy fit all people or neighborhoods,
I recommend organizing it through the local home owners or civic associations.
People have a right to security in our houses, papers and effects, and the
right to assemble peaceably in our communities without fear or threat to our safety.

Any conflicts can be identified and resolved on that level of local communities.
So if the issue really is bad owners, that can be screened out as well.

Whatever people agree will make them feel safe and secure in their homes
and communities, they have the right to decide and enforce by consensus of those affected.
So if it varies, let it vary. But the better solutions will catch on as models for others to replicate.

If everyone organized that way, we'd go live and form communities around
safer standards, and raise the standards by enforcing them ourselves.

if we disagree, well, different apts have different policies on pets.
So organize and find where you agree on policies and live there.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 6, 2015)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
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Calling different breeds pitbulls is not a matter of semantics.  It is simply inaccurate.

No, it is not the true pitbull that is being talked about.  Many witnesses to attacks have simply been taken at their word that it was a pitbull, since that is the terror dog of the moment.  Dobermans and Rottweilers have held that post in the past.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...


No its not semantics. What people are doing is claiming something that is not factual. You cant indiscriminately group up to 10 different dog breeds and claim they all are dangerous because someone cant tell the difference.


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## iamwhatiseem (Jan 6, 2015)

WinterBorn said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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Again semantics. 
One of the more aggressive breeds is the Chihuahua. But so what? Other than being a pain in the ass they are relatively harmless.
Pits are not dangerous because of their aggressiveness, they are dangerous because of their nervous/high strung nature. A nervous/insecure dog IS a dangerous dog. 
A nervous/insecure dog raised by a moron that puts it into a role of where it believes it needs to protect the pack? You have a ticking time bomb.
A nervous/insecure dog that is raised properly, trained to know it is not the "family protector" - and the breed is actually very loving and affectionate, and easily submits to others.


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## emilynghiem (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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Nor can you use that argument to excuse dogs that DO turn out to be dangerous, enable someone to get hurt,
and not be criticized as being partially liable and negligent.

What I see wrong is when someone DEFENDS the pitbulls on the side of freedom, but takes NO responsibility if something goes wrong and someone gets hurt.

So if you set it up where the responsibility is shared locally, people can come up with whatever policy
or threshold standard/requirement they WANT for their association around their property,
and they have every right to implement that by consent of the property owners.

I checked with a property rights consultant, 
and for Houston, he said it could require
an ordinance to be passed on the city level, where each district or association could opt into the ordinance.

And then it could be structured however they wanted as long as the owners agree.
In Houston for historic preservation I think the cut off was 2/3 had to agree.

For this level I would recommend 100% consensus so there is no discrimination against minority interests.
The ordinance would have to be written to accommodate those differences, and I would recommend
assistance with conflict resolution, mediation and consensus to help citizens learn that process anyway.

Because if people can or cannot negotiate a consensus on that level, that will also help
screen out problems in advance with conflicts that could lead to worse issues. It would help with screening on many levels.

I would recommend that people who want 100% consensus must be willing to resolve any and all conflicts to get to 100%.
And if people refuse and just want to input an opinion, then mediators would be required to get a consensus out of that.
if the conflict is so bad that people can't agree, and there is going to be a lawsuit over a pitbull or other dangerous pet,
I would recommend separating jurisdictions and not having those neighbors live together if it's going to jeopardize safety.
I'd rather them save their dogs and not risk children, then to have something go wrong and it's too late after the fact.
but that's for the neighborhood I would live in, where I need to have consensus to feel safe.

If other people have lower standards, and want to sue or take risks I wouldn't, that's up to them.


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## emilynghiem (Jan 6, 2015)

iamwhatiseem said:


> Pits are not dangerous because of their aggressiveness, they are dangerous because of their nervous/high strung nature. A nervous/insecure dog IS a dangerous dog.
> A nervous/insecure dog raised by a moron that puts it into a role of where it believes it needs to protect the pack? You have a ticking time bomb.
> A nervous/insecure dog that is raised properly, trained to know it is not the "family protector" - and the breed is actually very loving and affectionate, and easily submits to others.



Thanks iamwhatiseem
That is why I personally would want to know that pitbulls are screened and trained by professionals first,
where anyone can handle them after that. Even a complete moron!


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

iamwhatiseem said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...


You must have missed the temperament test I posted a few posts back.  Pits are not tempermental dogs. You must have only owned one or never owned any to say something like that.

Pit Bulls Pass ATTS Temperament Test With 86.4 

"According to the American Temperament Test Society (2010-2011), 804 American Pit Bull Terriers were tested and 695 passed.  This means that 86.4% of Pit Bulls tested by the ATTS had a good temperament.  Pit Bulls pass rating was above 121 other breeds of dogs, including Golden Retrievers!"


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

emilynghiem said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...


Where did I excuse dangerous dogs?  People are claiming the breed is the problem. Lets get our facts straight. The breed isnt dangerous. Specific dogs are dangerous regardless of breed. A St Bernard can kill an adult but there is no call for a ban on that breed.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

emilynghiem said:


> iamwhatiseem said:
> 
> 
> > Pits are not dangerous because of their aggressiveness, they are dangerous because of their nervous/high strung nature. A nervous/insecure dog IS a dangerous dog.
> ...


There is no such thing as a dog that can have a complete moron for an owner and it be all right


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## emilynghiem (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > iamwhatiseem said:
> ...



Okay so for your ordinance in your neighborhood,
you might have a screening process to make sure no morons leak through.
Very good!

I even sympathize with the police in NY
and want to offer this idea that they go on strike unless
their home districts all sign agreements to follow the laws
and agree on SPECIFIC procedures if a confrontation occurs.
So police and community members AGREE what the procedures
are. And if they all sign, then police agree to work those areas.

So for people who don't trust certain police, they can hire
ones they do have good faith relations with and can agree
on procedures to follow. And don't hire police or don't work for districts
where you already know you have conflicts.

This would provide mutual screening.
If cops have bad reps, they might end up in an area that wants them there.


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## Iceweasel (Jan 6, 2015)

WinterBorn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


I would do whatever I needed to do to win and I would win. I've seen many pitbulls and pitbull necks, they are not supernatural. I think many  people have an emotional overreaction to the breed.


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## emilynghiem (Jan 6, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



Hmmm now that's an idea IW.
Let's start adding this to self-defense training.

I think that's a good idea, to encourage more people 
along with learning CPR, how to swim, gun safety,
police procedures.  We should learn what is the
best defense in case of a dangerous dog attack instead of waiting for this to happen to improvise.


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## Iceweasel (Jan 6, 2015)

emilynghiem said:


> Hmmm now that's an idea IW.
> Let's start adding this to self-defense training.
> 
> I think that's a good idea, to encourage more people
> ...


The bottom line is, like with any fight, if you are on the defense, you'll loose. If I was attacked by a dog I would kick him hard in the nose, they have very sensitive noses. If he stuck up on me and got me down, I would wrap my legs around him and gouge eyes, get an arm around his neck and break the fucking thing. It's muscle and bone, not titanium.


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## Roudy (Jan 6, 2015)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...



I have adopted a German Shepherd and I heard the exact same thing from a lady in the adoption agency, with over 25 years experience training and finding homes for all kinds of dogs. In fact in her opinion, breeding pitbulls should be made illegal until they become extinct. I was very surprised to hear that from someone who is active in dog adoption.

  Like your article mentions the few pitbulls that I have encountered, seem to be very friendly, happy dogs. Although they're probably the most muscular dogs I have seen.

Bottom line with dogs is, you have to be racist choosing what you want. Certain breeds have certain behavioral characteristics, some are faster, while others are smarter, some like my shepherd have an extremely stable personality, while others like poodles smarter than shepherds, but very moody.  Yet others are work dogs with lots of energy, and need to go on long walks or hikes otherwise they get very anxious.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 6, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> emilynghiem said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm now that's an idea IW.
> ...



The worst thing is to go down on the ground.  stay on your feet.

And if you have an arm around his neck his mouth is at your neck or belly.  No, it is not titanium, but his pain tolerance is far higher than yours.

The nose is not a bad shot, but if he sees it coming he could catch your foot.

The feet are a sensitive spot that can also put them off balance.  Kick the legs, especially the rear legs.   And be aware that you may have to lose something to win the fight.   Those jaws will crush arm bones easily.


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## Iceweasel (Jan 6, 2015)

WinterBorn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > emilynghiem said:
> ...


It would help if you actually read the posts. I said if a dog knocked me down unexpectedly. You are in no position to dictate what everyone's survival or skills are. If you want to fold up and be eaten so be it. I keep in shape for numerous reasons, improving my odds is one of them. The nose is a great shot to back a dog off according to people that have done it. I'm aware of all kinds of things, including people who know "best".


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## Roudy (Jan 6, 2015)

I think dogs get very confused when they see smaller sized humans like children, who are almost their height and are looking at them at almost eye level.  And in some breeds, the confusion leads to aggression.  I know my dog starts barking when a little kid is passing by the front yard of our house.  I know it's because as a shepherd his protective and herding instincts kick in and he's worried for the child (he barks when I go and come as well).  Maybe with pitbulls, because the child is almost their height and at times showing teeth, they look at it as another animal who might harm those in it's territory.  Who knows.  All I know is that pitbulls and kids are a very bad mix.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

Roudy said:


> I think dogs get very confused when they see smaller sized humans like children, who are almost their height.  And in some breeds, the confusion leads to aggression.  I know my dog starts barking when a little kid is passing by the front yard of our house.  I know it's because as a shepherd his protective and herding instincts kick in and he's worried for the child.  Maybe with pitbulls, because the child is almost their height and at times showing teeth, they look at it as another animal who might harm those in it's territory.  Who knows.  All I know is that pitbulls and kids are a very bad mix.



Thats absolutely false.  No dog of any breed should see a small child as a threat. If your dog show aggression towards a child you should have it put down immediately. Pit bulls had the nick name of "nanny dog" in the past before all the hype. Thats how bad of a mix they are with children. I know from my own personal experience that pit bulls love kids and can take all the mauling kids give out due to their high pain tolerance and unflappable temperament.


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## Roudy (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > I think dogs get very confused when they see smaller sized humans like children, who are almost their height.  And in some breeds, the confusion leads to aggression.  I know my dog starts barking when a little kid is passing by the front yard of our house.  I know it's because as a shepherd his protective and herding instincts kick in and he's worried for the child.  Maybe with pitbulls, because the child is almost their height and at times showing teeth, they look at it as another animal who might harm those in it's territory.  Who knows.  All I know is that pitbulls and kids are a very bad mix.
> ...



The numbers don't lie:

" from DogsBite.org bear this out: Pit bulls were responsible for 25 of 32 – or 78 percent of — dog bite-related fatalities in the United States in 2013; 23 of 38 fatalities (61 percent) in 2012, and 22 of 31 (71 percent) in 2011.

Not every pit bull is dangerous. But if you’re an owner of a pit bull, consider these statistics — and do whatever necessary to keep your pit bull from becoming a statistic, too."

"
*Quick statistics ::*
This page is a collection of dog bite statistics that are located on DogsBite.org or can reached by a web link. Notably, each year, an American has a one in 50 chance of being bitten by a dog.1

In the 9-year period from 2005 to 2013, two dog breeds accounted for 74% of the attacks that resulted in death: pit bulls and rottweilers.

2013 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2014

71% of the pit bull fatalities have occurred in the past 10 years; 42% in the past four years; 24% in the past two years.

30-Year Summary: Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to December 26, 2011 by Merritt Clifton, _Animal People_, 2012

Over 700 U.S. cities have adopted breed-specific laws since the mid 1980s, just after pit bulls (fighting dogs) began leaking into the general population.

Estimated U.S. Cities, Counties and Military Facilities with Breed-Specific Laws by DogsBite.org, 2013

By 2017, pit bulls are projected to maul 305 Americans to death since 1998, the year the CDC stopped tracking fatal dog attacks by breed.

Fatalpitbullattacks.com, 2014, Nonprofits Urge CDC to Resume Tracking Richer Data Set for Children and Adults Disfigured, Maimed and Killed by Dogs, DogsBite.org, 2014

In the 9-year period from 2005 to 2013, pit bulls killed 176 Americans, about one citizen every 18.6 days.

2013 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2014

In the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008, 18% of all fatal dog attacks occurred off owner property. Pit bulls were responsible for 81% of these attacks.

Report: U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006 to December 2008 by DogsBite.org, 2010

In the first eight months of 2011, nearly half of the persons killed by a pit bull was the dog's owner and primary caretaker.

2011 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2011

Dog bites are the fifth highest reason why children seek emergency room treatment due to activities they voluntarily engage in, such as playing sports.

Incidence of Dog Bite Injuries Treated in Emergency Departments (1992-1994) by H. Weiss, D. Friedman and J. Coben, _JAMA_, 1998


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

Roudy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


Can you prove all the dogs were pit bulls? The reason I ask is because it takes a DNA test to be certain and the media likes to hype stories when they think the dog is a pit bull.. Just because someone said it was a pit bull doesn't mean it was.

I noticed in your edited post it specified fighting dogs in one example. You do realize that pits are not the only fighting dogs dont you?


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## Roudy (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



Those aren't my numbers.  They come from an unbiased source which records all kinds of stats regarding dogs.  You can browse the site to see for yourself.  To be honest I was a little shocked myself when I saw those numbers.  A family friend of mine recently adopted a pitbull after being diagnosed with cancer.  I was a little surprised that he got a pitbull, even though I warned him about the things that are said about them.  I hope he has good homeowner's  insurance.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

Roudy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


That should give you even more pause in believing them if those are not your numbers. Like most stats, they are used for political purposes and subject to interpretation of people that compiled them. My neighbor has a boxer and people always think its a pit.


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## Roudy (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



What political purpose is there in demonizing a certain breed of dog?  The site simply takes numbers and records them.  Let's not be silly.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

Roudy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Roudy said:
> ...


I know you are aware of the political struggle going on about breed specific legislation. If the site simply takes numbers and records them, who are they getting the numbers from? Since most people cannot correctly ID a pit what makes you think they are all pits?


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## Mr. H. (Jan 6, 2015)

Mr. H. said:


> I'll be glad when our dog is dead. He's a mutt with just enough Chow to give him that attitude.
> 
> Pit Bulls are an abomination of canine cross-breading.


"Cross-breading"?

People don't actually eat dogs, do they?

Oh, yeah. I guess He does.


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## WinterBorn (Jan 6, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



I am trying to pass on information taken from numerous experts and combined into a class for (at the time) the largest utility construction corporation in the world.   Yes, the nose is sensitive.  But it is also right at the most dangerous spot on the dog.  Having seen dogs play and hunt, thinking that you can move faster than they can react my well cost you your leg.

Yes, I saw what you said about being surprised.  I was repeating what the research said was one of the most important things to remember, and that is to stay on your feet.

As for an arm around the dog's neck to wring its neck, unless you snap the vertebrae instantly, the dog will either be able to bite your face & head or your abdomen.  In the case of a pit, either could be fatal for you.  

However, the feet are a very sensitive area on a dog, and most will react instantly to an attack on their feet.

I am in good shape too.  But being in good physical shape does not change the dog's reaction or the areas which will cause a dog to react.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

WinterBorn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > WinterBorn said:
> ...


Doesnt matter what shape you are in or how quick you are. A pit is quicker, in better shape, and if determined will keep attacking.  The only thing I could suggest is to grab the windpipe below the jaws and try to crush it if one grabs you. That is a tall task if he gets a arm due to the pain. I use to train dogs for protection and the pressure they put on your arm is incredible even in protection gear.  Your arm would probably go numb from the pain.


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## Wake (Jan 6, 2015)

Pitbulls, when raised since birth with love and attention, are not more inherently aggressive than other dogs. Do they have more muscle? In general, yes. But does being a pitbull mean you are a more aggressive dog? Absolutely not. Are any dogs out there completely predictable? No. If you haven't raised pitbulls and given them love and attention, you probably shouldn't believe all of the hype. Like with other things in politics, there will be those who will lie to you for their own political reasons.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

Inevitable said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > btw, no disrespect meant to the guy above but how did a pitbull maul an adult man? Was he asleep?
> ...




nope. Because not only am I a very large man with no fear of animals but I know how to stop/scare them. Most people put their arms up- big mistake; it gives them the perfect limb to bite and hang on to. If you are serious about the question, I'll finish telling you.


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## Wake (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> > ninja007 said:
> ...



Even one trained by the police?


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> > I hope you would not actually fight a pit bull by wringing its neck.  You would surely lose.  The neck of a pit bull is ringed by a thick muscle.
> ...




exactly- to the face and head.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

Wake said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > Inevitable said:
> ...



yep. A dog is still a dog with all the same pain receptors and same bones to break.


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## ChrisL (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> > ninja007 said:
> ...



Because animals are MUCH stronger than you think they are.  Also, when they are mad, they are even more strong.  They are much faster than you and have more stamina too.  If one was determined to make a meal out of you, he would simply chase you and antagonize you until you ran out of energy and then move in for the kill by going for your throat or knocking you to the ground and mauling you to death.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

Wake said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > Inevitable said:
> ...



I'm not afraid of lions either (serious)- I am scared of lots of things but animals, no. Maybe a bull elephant charging and a black rhino.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > Inevitable said:
> ...



nope. I've had all kinds of animals and have studied wild animals for years and, Lord willing be moving to Africa to work with Kevin Richardson. FEAR never enters into it. Animals (wild) are much more scared of us then we are of them. They will do ANYTHING to AVOID conflict.

Here is a very short vid with a perfect example- man vs lions.


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## JoeMoma (Jan 6, 2015)

Wake said:


> Pitbulls, when raised since birth with love and attention, are not more inherently aggressive than other dogs. Do they have more muscle? In general, yes. But does being a pitbull mean you are a more aggressive dog? Absolutely not. Are any dogs out there completely predictable? No. If you haven't raised pitbulls and given them love and attention, you probably shouldn't believe all of the hype. Like with other things in politics, there will be those who will lie to you for their own political reasons.


The problem with a pit bull is that if it does have an unpredictable aggressive moment it is likely to kill somebody.  If a beagle has a similar unpredictable aggressive moment, a bandaid will probably be sufficient to treat the injuries.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)




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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > Inevitable said:
> ...


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## Wake (Jan 6, 2015)

JoeMoma said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Pitbulls, when raised since birth with love and attention, are not more inherently aggressive than other dogs. Do they have more muscle? In general, yes. But does being a pitbull mean you are a more aggressive dog? Absolutely not. Are any dogs out there completely predictable? No. If you haven't raised pitbulls and given them love and attention, you probably shouldn't believe all of the hype. Like with other things in politics, there will be those who will lie to you for their own political reasons.
> ...



It's a matter of size.

Curiously, looking at 2012 statistics, a beagle maimed a child.

A chihuahua did kill a human child.


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## ChrisL (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ninja007 said:
> ...



Lol.  Yeah, okay bud.    If an animal is hungry, injured or mad, they don't have any fear.


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## Wake (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> I'm not afraid of lions either (serious)- I am scared of lots of things but animals, no. Maybe a bull elephant charging and a black rhino.



Bet you never stared at a wild turkey cross-eyed.


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## JoeMoma (Jan 6, 2015)

We live in a dangerous world.  None of us are going to get out of it alive.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> Inevitable said:
> 
> 
> > ninja007 said:
> ...


You are amusing. Doesnt matter if you have fear or not if the animals intent is to rid the earth of you.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



I don't care if you don't believe me.I'm not lying.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

JoeMoma said:


> We live in a dangerous world.  None of us are going to get out of it alive.




some will. Christians at the pretribulation rapture do


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

Wake said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not afraid of lions either (serious)- I am scared of lots of things but animals, no. Maybe a bull elephant charging and a black rhino.
> ...



the bottle or animal?


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## Wake (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > ninja007 said:
> ...



The winged beast.


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## Wake (Jan 6, 2015)

You don't know fear until you've crossed one in the wild.

Their annual genocides have tempered their resolve.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
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> > ChrisL said:
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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

2:40- 3:40


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> 2:40- 3:40


i'm sure these guys thought like you too. Just a matter of time messing with a wild animal.


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## ChrisL (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > 2:40- 3:40
> ...



Just like that Timothy what's his name guy who tried to live with grizzly bears and got himself and his girlfriend eaten alive.  People need to leave wild animals alone and stop antagonizing them!  They aren't interested in being friends with us!


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > ninja007 said:
> ...



this man says hello....


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)




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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


Thats not a lion attacking him. Are you suggesting that this lion is wild?


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## ChrisL (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



None of this means anything because wild animals are unpredictable and can turn on you and kill for a simple thing like annoying them, even if they don't MEAN to kill you.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


>


Those arent wild lions. They are way too clean and well fed.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



ahh, and there you don't get it. Not if they see you as part of the pride.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ninja007 said:
> ...


They dont see you as part of the pride unless you have somehow gained their trust which means they arent truly wild.  My guess is they are hand raised cubs released back into the wild.  Otherwise we would be reading about how lions ate him for dinner.


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## ChrisL (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ninja007 said:
> ...



People need to leave wild animals alone.  They are WILD for a reason.  Also, they aren't supposed to "trust" people.  It's just not right.  I always hated seeing the animals caged up at the zoo, especially the lions, tigers, elephants, and monkeys.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...


No way those lions are really wild. They had to be raised in captivity and set loose.


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## ChrisL (Jan 6, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ninja007 said:
> ...



Agreed.  I can't see truly wild lions letting people get that close to them without at least a bitch slap which could probably take a man's head clean off.  Lol!


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> ninja007 said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



do you even watch the SHORT clips? Kevin Richardson's background is he started by getting dozens of lions out of the zoo/"game park". He lets them roam freely in ACRES of open land. He treats them with rspect and is one of them. He has dozens of lions, a lot of hyenas, leopards and even a giraffe. If you have the time please watch his movie. Its on youtube. 45 minutes long.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
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lions will 99% of the time run away from humans because they see us as predators.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

Home


* Background *
After graduating with a BSc in Anatomy and Physiology, Kevin began his career in postoperative rehabilitation. He made a dramatic career switch when he was given an opportunity to work with lions at a local lion park, sixteen years ago.

As a self-taught animal behaviourist, he has broken every safety rule known to man when working with these wild animals. Flouting common misconceptions that breaking an animal’s spirit with sticks and chains is the best way to subdue them, he uses love, understanding and trust to develop personal bonds with them. His unique method of getting to know their individual personalities, what makes each of them angry, happy, upset, or irritated-just like a mother understands a child-has caused them to accept him like one of their own into their fold.

Kevin’s unique relationships with these large predators have opened many doors and captivated the imagination of many people throughout the world.  He has presented and produced several documentaries that detail his relationships with the animals and highlight the plight of lions both in captivity and in the wild.

Kevin has also written a book appropriately named, "Part of the Pride" detailing his work over the years with the large carnivores and is now affectionately known by his fans worldwide as “The Lion Whisperer”.

Through his remarkable relationships with the animals he has also made a name for himself in the feature film industry as one of South Africa’s leading animal handlers and advisors.

He has been featured prominently as a result of his ground breaking work on many local and international News Networks, Newspapers, Magazine and Actuality Programs including Sky News , CNN, ABC News, NBC , CBS, Carte Blanche and Top Billing.

His most ambitious project to date was that of a full length dramatic feature film called “white lion”, whereby he fulfilled the role as both producer and lion wrangler. The film took over four years to make and is about the life of a young white lion, “Letsatsi” who survives against all the odds to become an adult and find a pride of his own.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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Depends on if they are hunted or not. Lions are apex predators.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

back to the Op- You must show the dog that YOU are the alpha in the group/pack. You must have their respect. Then you will not get attacked.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > ninja007 said:
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I pretty much figured.  There is no way a human is getting close to a pride of lions in the wild and playing with them.


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## ChrisL (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> ChrisL said:
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Well those lions are not truly wild then.  They have been exposed to humans probably quite frequently since they were small, but it is still risky because you never know what they are capable of, and just a playful swat could have dire consequences for a human being.


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## Asclepias (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> back to the Op- You must show the dog that YOU are the alpha in the group/pack. You must have their respect. Then you will not get attacked.


How do you show a strange dog you are the alpha?  Especially if he thinks he is a alpha male. Dogs have a hierarchy very similar to wolves. Even a low ranking member of a pack will attack you if you are a stranger.


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## ChrisL (Jan 6, 2015)

ninja007 said:


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I will have to watch it later on or tomorrow.


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## ninja007 (Jan 6, 2015)

ChrisL said:


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ChrisL said:


> ninja007 said:
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Chris, here is the movie.... thx...


eta- ONLY Kevin and ONE other man interacts with all Kevin's lions and hyenas.


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## Inevitable (Jan 7, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> Inevitable said:
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Not necessary, you explained that people can be mauled by dogs by "putting their hands up" you can't blame people for not possessing your knowledge.


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## Inevitable (Jan 7, 2015)

ninja007 said:


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That is nice. Not being scared isn't the same as not being mauled.


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## ChrisL (Jan 8, 2015)

ninja007 said:


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I have to admit that I didn't watch the whole thing.  This is all very well and good, but it does not negate the point that wild animals are unpredictable, and yes, they can and do kill people, even accidentally.  Then, guess who pays the price?  The animal.  Normally, the animal is euthanized after it kills a person.  Wild animals have their place, and it is not as being "buddies" with human beings.  They are unpredictable wild animals and are VERY strong (even the smallest ones) because they have to be to survive.  Weak animals don't survive very long, neither do ones that trust people.


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## Iceweasel (Jan 8, 2015)

That lion whisperer is fascinating but I have a feeling he isn't going to die of old age. Many people have gone down this road with chimps, bears and everything else. All it takes is something that triggers an instinct and it's game over.


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## BULLDOG (Jan 8, 2015)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...



I agree completely with the title of this thread.  "Pit bulls are safe around children!"   I have never heard of a single time when a pit bull was mauled and killed by a pack or children, so they are perfectly safe. However, the children very often aren't as lucky.


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## ChrisL (Jan 8, 2015)

BULLDOG said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...



Right, it's a bad idea to leave any small child around any animal, IMO.  Accidents can happen too.  I think I already told the story here in this thread about the little toddler who was playing in the yard with a tied dog, when the dog's leash somehow got wrapped around the child's neck, and the child was strangled to death.


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## ninja007 (Jan 8, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> That lion whisperer is fascinating but I have a feeling he isn't going to die of old age. Many people have gone down this road with chimps, bears and everything else. All it takes is something that triggers an instinct and it's game over.



different. If you really want to understand why, ask...


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## strollingbones (Jan 9, 2015)

Silhouette said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...



DOBIES ARE BIG BABIES...i do not believe you at all with your anecdotal doberman story


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## strollingbones (Jan 9, 2015)

i would never leave a dog of any size alone with a infant or toddler....


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## Bfgrn (Sep 12, 2015)

*Woman Arrested After Her Pit Bulls Attack Man In Violent Video*
*A good Samaritan intervened, only to get mauled himself.*


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## Iceweasel (Sep 12, 2015)

Pit Bulls are a powerful breed. If the wrong people get them for the wrong reasons it can go very bad. Almost all the ones at the dog park I see are very friendly.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 12, 2015)

They are a dangerous breed that should be outlawed.

They don't "bite"...they maul and attack to kill.


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## Rocko (Sep 12, 2015)

Unkotare said:


> There is no legitimate reason for having a dog where another breed is not a better choice.



The best bread is subjective.  There are many people who admire pits the most. Not my favorite dogs, but I think they are beautiful.


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## ChrisL (Sep 12, 2015)

There was an incident this weekend in Fall River where a woman's pit bull was stabbed like 8 times by a guy.  He says her pit bull was attacking his friend's smaller dog (like a terrier or something), and he was trying to save the dog.  She says her dog was on leashed and she had him under control at the time.  

Fall River man accused of stabbing pit bull


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## Political Junky (Sep 12, 2015)

If they were inherently dangerous, I doubt the top dog shows would allow them to compete.


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## charwin95 (Sep 12, 2015)

I just read a news at LA Times the other day in Riverside County Ca where a man (Emilio Rios 65) mauled to death by 2 vicious pit bull and a woman was severely injured. 
See LA Times 9/9/15 Riverside County or Google.


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## ChrisL (Sep 12, 2015)

Political Junky said:


> If they were inherently dangerous, I doubt the top dog shows would allow them to compete.



I've never had one, but I would imagine that they aren't any more dangerous than any other dog, except that maybe they are more powerful than a lot of other breeds, which does, in and of itself, make them a bit more dangerous since they can do a lot more damage.  

My cousin was attacked by her own pit bull.  He literally ripped her nose off her face.  She had to have multiple plastic surgeries to fix it.  My uncle took the dog out back the next day and shot it.  My cousin wouldn't speak to him for months because she was pissed that he killed her dog.  He was old and they think he might have been hard of hearing and didn't recognize my cousin when she came home that night.  

There are actually some cities/towns where they are banned.


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## Unkotare (Sep 12, 2015)

Rocko said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> > There is no legitimate reason for having a dog where another breed is not a better choice.
> ...




Bread is subjective, breeds less so.


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## hazlnut (Sep 12, 2015)

Wake said:


> Godboy said:
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You're the exception.  Not the rule.


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## Rocko (Sep 12, 2015)

Unkotare said:


> Rocko said:
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Ok you got me lol


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## Godboy (Sep 12, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Political Junky said:
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> > If they were inherently dangerous, I doubt the top dog shows would allow them to compete.
> ...


Find me one video of a golden retriever mauling someone. If you cant do that, then clearly pitbulls are MUCH more dangerous than other dogs and definitely more prone to attacking people.


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## ChrisL (Sep 12, 2015)

Godboy said:


> ChrisL said:
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Well, pit bulls aren't the only breed to have mauled people.  They have an incredibly strong bite though.  How do you feel about Rottweilers?  I'm not a dog expert, so I don't know if one kind of dog is any more dangerous than any other kind of dog.  It probably does depend on how it's raised too.  Some people aren't very good pet owners and neglect or abuse their animals, and these types of dogs are more attractive to people who want to use them for intimidation purposes, and those kinds of people don't usually make very good doggy parents.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

They're terriers. Education is key.

We sure love our boy


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## skye (Sep 12, 2015)

He is gorgeous  koshergrl!


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

strollingbones said:


> i would never leave a dog of any size alone with a infant or toddler....


Me neither.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

skye said:


> He is gorgeous  koshergrl!


He's a friend to every child, all our neighborhood kids and kids' friends love him.


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## Godboy (Sep 12, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Well, pit bulls aren't the only breed to have mauled people..



That isnt an argument. If you are going to ignore the facts, then whats the point of even discussing it? Have no golden retrievers ever been beaten or neglected? Show me how many examples you can find of a golden retriever mauling someone.


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## ChrisL (Sep 12, 2015)

Godboy said:


> ChrisL said:
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> 
> > Well, pit bulls aren't the only breed to have mauled people..
> ...



What is your problem?  I'm not arguing.  I said I DON'T KNOW.  Duh.


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## Godboy (Sep 12, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Godboy said:
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You do know. THATS my problem. You know that pitbulls attack 100 times more often than any other dog, but you still have the fucking nerve to say "well other breeds have done it too". No one cares about the exceptions! Ive seen a rat, riding a cat, whos riding a dog... that doesnt fucking mean its the norm.


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## ChrisL (Sep 12, 2015)

Godboy said:


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I did not say that.  I said I don't know if pit bulls are more prone to attacking than any other breed.  Other factors probably play a role in why these dogs attack more often, like the REASONS why they are taken as pets.  Some of them are trained to be mean.


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## ChrisL (Sep 12, 2015)

Godboy said:


> ChrisL said:
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Yeah, most people who get a dog to intimidate others (like gang members, etc), aren't going to get a Golden Retriever.    They're going to get a mean looking animal instead.


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## Godboy (Sep 12, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Godboy said:
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Yeah, im sure all dogs are EXACTLY the same. They all have the same level of agression. Apparently people just beat the most dangerous breed more often than the others? Is that your reason for why the majority of dog maulings each year are caused by pitbulls? Its ALL because they are beaten, and the other breeds are not beaten. Otherwise pitbulls would have the exact same temperament as a golden retriever. Uhuh. Okay, whatever. Im SURE you are right.


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## ChrisL (Sep 12, 2015)

Godboy said:


> ChrisL said:
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I never said they were exactly the same.  Stop putting words in my mouth!!!  What expertise do you have anyway?  None I'm guessing.


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## CremeBrulee (Sep 12, 2015)

Political Junky said:


> If they were inherently dangerous, I doubt the top dog shows would allow them to compete.


I don't think you can get them registered with AKC yet.  Without that registration it can't compete at Westminster, which is the only show that matters.  You can register a Staffordshire Terrier with AKC; that is similar but still a different breed.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

Breed bans are stupid. Animals can be dangerous. The reason pit bulls seem more dangerous is because they're identified by lay ppl and they happen to be the favorite dog of dumb poor people. If they don't have pits, they'll have rotties or shepherds or mastiffs. Education is key. You can't ban every potentially dangerous breed.


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## ChrisL (Sep 12, 2015)

Godboy said:


> ChrisL said:
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You know that more pit bulls do NOT attack than do?    BTW, What would you suggest we do with this incredibly dangerous breed of canine?


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## ChrisL (Sep 12, 2015)




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## CremeBrulee (Sep 12, 2015)

Godboy said:


> ChrisL said:
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No. Not all dogs have the same temperament.  But that aggressive behavior is many times bred into Pit Bulls due to their fighting capabilities.  They  originated as "pit" fighting dogs for bull and bear baiting.  Sadly, many are still used for those purposes so the aggressive traits are being sought after and passed down.  You really need to research the dog's bloodline before purchasing.


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## Political Junky (Sep 12, 2015)

CremeBrulee said:


> Political Junky said:
> 
> 
> > If they were inherently dangerous, I doubt the top dog shows would allow them to compete.
> ...


Pit bull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Several breeds are shown ... all considered pit bulls.


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## CremeBrulee (Sep 12, 2015)

Political Junky said:


> CremeBrulee said:
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Yes that is a catch all name for about 3-4 different breeds.


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## Political Junky (Sep 12, 2015)

CremeBrulee said:


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All of which are shown at Westminster.


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## CremeBrulee (Sep 12, 2015)

Political Junky said:


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I don't think the American Pit Bull Terrier is.  May have changed.


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## Godboy (Sep 12, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Godboy said:
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Ban them. People shouldnt be walking around in public with pitbulls, gorillas, tigers or any other unpredictable and dangerous animal.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

They aren't unpredictable. People are stupid. Pits act exactly the way I expect them to act.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)




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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

My kids are the safest kids on the block.


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## Godboy (Sep 12, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> They aren't unpredictable. People are stupid. Pits act exactly the way I expect them to act.



Well i guess we can agree on that much.

((Moderator Edit))
*WARNING -- The following links contain graphic or morbid images.. *

http://media2.wcpo.com/photo/2014/0...ital_1407280748089_7233458_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VNvgGXgz0...g/8z8bqrwFacQ/s400/toddler-mauled-by-dogs.jpg

http://www.documentingreality.com/f...248687085-child-mauled-pit-bull-b-w-305_2.jpg

http://d3819ii77zvwic.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/imna.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nl4dK4j4Y...600/natylee-murphee-pit-bull-attack-475-4.jpg


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

Asclepias said:


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Pit Bulls are about as identifiable as a Lab.  

Most Pit Bulls like most dogs won't attack.  However, for those few dogs that do, by far....BY FAR Pit Bulls are the worst culprits. They should be illegal to breed.  Love the ones still here, don't let them mate.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

I can show worse pictures of kids maimed in car wrecks or at the hands of moms boyfriend. Getting rid of pits isn't going to make ppl smart, or prevent dog bites.  For one thing, American pit isn't a breed so much as a type. Any mongrel dog with a wide jaw is labeled a pit these days. It means nothing.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Asclepias said:
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Good luck with that.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Shoot the breeders (people) who let it happen.  Been to the Humane Society lately?  It's filled with two breeds, chihuahuas and Pit Bulls.  Seriously, go to your local Humane Society website and take a look.

But, if you're for backyard breeding, you deserve everything coming to you.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> I can show worse pictures of kids maimed in car wrecks or at the hands of moms boyfriend. Getting rid of pits isn't going to make ppl smart, or prevent dog bites.  For one thing, American pit isn't a breed so much as a type. Any mongrel dog with a wide jaw is labeled a pit these days. It means nothing.



I can show worse pictures of people throwing their cats in microwaves, doesn't mean we get rid of microwaves.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


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Psycho, where did you get that I'm"for" backyard breeding? And why is it the breeders fault when someone chains a dog up, and some parent is stupid enough to let their kid get in reach? Breed bans are just foolish. People just latch onto another powerful breed when one is no longer available.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > I can show worse pictures of kids maimed in car wrecks or at the hands of moms boyfriend. Getting rid of pits isn't going to make ppl smart, or prevent dog bites.  For one thing, American pit isn't a breed so much as a type. Any mongrel dog with a wide jaw is labeled a pit these days. It means nothing.
> ...


Uh...yes, I know.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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> > koshergrl said:
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Not you personally, just in general.

Children come into contact with many dogs.  Pit Bulls statistically are more dangerous.  It's always the owners fault of any dog that is put into a position where it can bite a child in most circumstances.

There is no other breed of dog that is as dangerous as a Pit Bull.  Other dogs bite too, Pit Bulls do the most.  I'm in no way in favor of breed euthanasia, I'm for restricting breeding of dangerous dogs.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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They're on the internet. However rarer than Pit Bull victims.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


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Pit bull TYPES you mean. Identified primarily by reporters....who know as little about dog genetics as they know of anything else. Pit bull types are probably the most common type of American dog. They're our generic dog. Dog attacks aren't a breed problem...it's a people problem.We've fostered a dumb, criminal culture and they have dogs. Educate people where they live, about the dogs in their neighborhood.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
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Ok this has taken an odd turn....


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Post 10 pictures of dogs and I bet you most people will be able to identify a Pit Bull "type" dog.

Anyway, if it were merely a "people" problem. Then how come Pit Bulls were responsible for 64% of dog bite fatalities in 2014 yet in no way shape or form make up anywhere near that size of the dog population?

Pit Bulls are a 'generic" dog just like any other breed.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Right because showing pictures of kids maimed in car wrecks is way more sane than any other tragedy in a thread about Pit Bulls.  I was only following your lead.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
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I already addressed this....reporters are identifying the dogs that bite and they like to tag dogs as pit because it leads. The discrepancy is because a lot of dogs that are not pit bulls are being identified as such....and because of breed prejudice, people don't cop to having pits.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


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Except you made my point for me.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Reporters?  How many of these dog bite fatalities do you think the dog got away?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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> > koshergrl said:
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That your point was irrelevant?  Hey, why have seat belts in cars, look at all those houses that blew up because they left the gas running in their house.


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## koshergrl (Sep 12, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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My point was that banning things doesn't work. And you appear to both agree and disagree. I dunno but I'm out, that's enough cuckoo for me...


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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I'm for letting businesses  and government decide what is best for these dogs.  if an apartment complex or dog boarding facility doesn't want to take your dog or insurance companies don't want to pay for risks you like to take in life, that's fine.  I'm also OK with government deciding what dogs can and cannot be on government property.

I'm for jail sentences for people who breed Pit Bulls.  I don't care if their dog got out of their backyard on accident or they are going Michael Vick, the dog needs to be fixed, jail time (6 months) is the answer. Won't solve every problem but it would be helpful.

Nothing mixed about my opinion. It's not cuckoo, Pit Bulls are more dangerous, it's statistically provable. There is not a single sensible reason to continue to breed them.


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## flacaltenn (Sep 12, 2015)

*Moderation Message:

Been having a rash of "graphic and morbid" images put into posts without a warning and shown -- not linked to. 
Been in all kinds of topics, from terrorism to abortion to this topic. 

As a reminder ------ from the USMB postcard size rules.. 
*

*Graphic Images, material or links to images, Videos, and or material, whether real, satirical or implied, depicting obscene, indecent, pornography, pornographic acts, or Morbid Images (at Moderator/Admin discretion) are not permitted. This includes Gifs and cartoons.*
*Morbid Images may be Linked, not posted, when appropriate. A Clear Warning Sign Must precede the Link."Warning Graphic Image" Or "Warning Morbid Image"*
*If in doubt -- follow the rule above. Place the image, vid, material by linking WITHOUT DISPLAY
accompanied by a warning similar to above. This is the one time that posters may use Dark Red Bold font in a post or sigline..  Thanks.. Warnings are gonna go out -- because this is becoming frequent... 

*


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## Godboy (Sep 12, 2015)

The results of pitbull attacks are so horrendous, that the victims disfigured faces cant even be shown on this message board. I think that says it all. This breed needs to go.


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## TheOldSchool (Sep 12, 2015)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...


I guess I can understand why you think Pitbulls are inherently evil.  You are a republican.  You think people are born either right (white) or wrong.  So of course, Pitbulls fall under the "wrong" category.  And circumstances, other humans, etc. have no influence.


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## Godboy (Sep 12, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...


There is no such thing as an inferior human race, but there _are_ inferior cultures. You should know; you belong to one.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 12, 2015)

TheOldSchool said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...



Dog breeds do not equal human races.  Herding dogs herd, site hounds hunt, Pit Bulls attack, the numbers are overwhelming.


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## Muhammed (Sep 12, 2015)

flacaltenn said:


> *Moderation Message:
> 
> Been having a rash of "graphic and morbid" images put into posts without a warning and shown -- not linked to.
> Been in all kinds of topics, from terrorism to abortion to this topic.
> ...





flacaltenn said:


> *Moderation Message:
> 
> Been having a rash of "graphic and morbid" images put into posts without a warning and shown -- not linked to.
> Been in all kinds of topics, from terrorism to abortion to this topic.
> ...


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> They aren't unpredictable. People are stupid. Pits act exactly the way I expect them to act. View attachment 50075



WHO is stupid?

*Pregnant woman mauled to death by family pit bull was in campaign group arguing that the animals are safe  *


A pregnant woman who was mauled to death by one of her pet pit bull terriers belonged to group campaigning to convince people that the animals aren't dangerous, it has emerged.

Darla Napora, 32, was bitten dozens of times and found by her husband Greg covered in blood outstretched on their living room floorin Pacifica, California.

Police say the two-year-old unneutered pit bull believed to be responsible was hovering around the woman, who had major injuries to her upper body and face.






Tragic: Darla Napora was a member of a pitbull advocacy group, it has emerged






Greg Napora returned home from work find his wife Darla outstretched on their living room floor having been bitten dozens of times

It has since emerged Napora was a member of Bay Area Dog Lovers Responsible About Pit Bulls, a group that does its best to convince people that pit bulls aren't really that dangerous.

'When they arrived, they found the victim laying in her own front living room; she was not breathing, unresponsive and had major trauma to her upper body,' said Pacifica Police Captain Dave Bretini. 

'The husband stated that when he got home, at about noon, he found his wife with their pit bull hovering over her.'


Read more: Pregnant woman mauled to death by family pit bull was in campaign group arguing that the animals are safe


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Breed bans are stupid. Especially when it's not a breed but a type. Get rid of pit bulls and another breed will take it's place.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Btw, the napora case was nothing but a hit job by the hysterical anti pit lobby. She  fell off a ladder, and the dog was protecting her. The autopsy results were never released but nobody knew how far along she was. Last I heard before the story completely went away was that they were waiting on toxicology reports.


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## CremeBrulee (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> I can show worse pictures of kids maimed in car wrecks or at the hands of moms boyfriend. Getting rid of pits isn't going to make ppl smart, or prevent dog bites.  For one thing, American pit isn't a breed so much as a type. Any mongrel dog with a wide jaw is labeled a pit these days. It means nothing.


It is a type and breed.   I agree with the rest of that though.
United Kennel Club:  American Pit Bull Terrier
American Pit Bull Terrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Btw, the napora case was nothing but a hit job by the hysterical anti pit lobby. She  fell off a ladder, and the dog was protecting her. The autopsy results were never released but nobody knew how far along she was. Last I heard before the story completely went away was that they were waiting on toxicology reports.



LINK???

The "fell off a ladder" story is false. And there were autopsy results.

*Coroner: Prelim Autopsy Results Show Pit Bull "Responsible For This Attack"*
*Darla Napora died of loss of blood and shock. Teeth impressions from the two-year-old male pit bull match her wounds. No evidence of other trauma was on her body.*

Preliminary results from the autopsy conducted on Darla Napora - who police believe was by her pet pit bull on Thursday - and from the necropsy conducted on the suspect dog have been released.

According to a pathologist and two odontologists (bite experts) - one of whom had experience with recent dog attacks in the Bay Area at the San Mateo County Coroner’s Office - Napora died of a loss of blood from dog bites coupled with shock.

The 32-year-old Pacifica woman, who was pregnant at the time, lived at 588 Reina Del Mar Avenue with her husband and two pet pit bulls.

The of the necropsy on the suspect two-year-old male unneutered pit bull that was shot by police shortly after they arrived at Napora’s residence on Thursday show that the dog was responsible for the attack, Chief Jim Tasa said.

The evidence included hair and tissue sample removed from the dog. Teeth impressions from the dog match wounds on the victim, said Chief Tasa.

Teeth impressions were also taken of the family’s other pit bull, a female. No evidence shows that this dog was involved in the attack, said Chief Tasa. The Peninsula Humane Society took the dog after the incident to be inspected by a veterinarian.

*There was no evidence of any other trauma to Napora’s body*, the preliminary results of the autopsy show.

Coroner: Prelim Autopsy Results Show Pit Bull "Responsible For This Attack"


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## Bonzi (Sep 13, 2015)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...


 
Agree.

Ever heard of a Golden Retriever mauling and killing anyone?
No?  Didn't think so.
I have family members that have these dogs, and, one time I was visiting the told me (and my 2 young sons) just don't make any sudden moves and she'll be fine.  WTF??

How about lock them up?

I will NEVER understand why people that have small kids insist this is the breed of dog they need.  Crazy.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

Hey Koshergirl, the man mauled in the Bronx was walking to church...maybe his pastor mauled him?

And this 65 year old man was taking a stroll last Wednesday...he probably tripped over a curb...

*Man killed, woman injured in 'vicious' pit bull attack in Riverside County*

A man was killed and a woman was severely injured after they were attacked by two pit bulls outside a home in a Riverside County neighborhood, authorities said.

Emilio Rios, 65, went for a morning stroll about 6:30 a.m. Tuesday when he was attacked by the two dogs, authorities said.

He was found by deputies, responding to a report of a dog attack, in the front yard of a home in the 70600 block of Sea Gull Drive in North Shore, an unincorporated community northeast of the Salton Sea, according to the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department.

He suffered from wounds consistent with a dog attack. 

As deputies investigated the scene, they heard a woman cry for help as two pit bulls attacked her nearby.

Authorities said the lights and sirens on their patrol car scared off the dogs, which fled the area.

The woman suffered major injuries and was taken to an area hospital.

Man killed, woman injured in &apos;vicious&apos; pit bull attack in Riverside County


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

I'm sure 16-year-old Briana Neira did something wrong...she was home...

*Pit bull mix attacks Long Island teen after being rescued from kill shelter, gets euthanized: ‘There was blood everywhere’*
BY  Melissa Chan 
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Updated: Tuesday, September 8, 2015, 3:58 PM

A pit bull mix rescued from a Manhattan kill shelter attacked a teen girl within seconds of stepping foot in its new Long Island home Sunday and was later put down, officials and scarred family members said.

The 2-year-old dog named Alex was saved by animal lover Stephen Neira, of Patchogue, just 22 minutes before he was set to walk down "death row" at Animal Care Centers of New York City.

But the brown-and-white canine's happy homecoming turned bloody when it lunged at Neira's three young children, chomping down on his oldest daughter's face, throat and arm.

"They're absolutely traumatized," Neira's father Frank Neira told the Daily News. "They won't even sleep by themselves since it happened. There was blood everywhere — on their deck, inside the house."

The 16-year-old victim, Briana, needed between 60 and 80 stitches on her arm after she lifted it to shield her throat, her grandfather said. She also underwent plastic surgery on her mauled lip at Stony Brook University after getting 20 stitches.

Briana was in a lot of pain and still recovering at the hospital Tuesday and refuses to speak to family members about the incident, Frank Neira, 60, said.

She and her 12-year-old sister Madison and 10-year-old brother Jake were anxiously waiting to greet their new pet when he entered from the back door and immediately lunged, unprovoked.

"The three of them were standing together waiting to be introduced to the dog," their grandfather said. "They were all looking forward to it. The second they opened the door, he jumped. They didn't even get a chance to meet him."

Pit bull attacks NY teen after being rescued from shelter


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Good grief. Hysterics are gonna be hysterical. Ban pits from the cities, I don't care. Then have fun when gang members bring in those immense Russian bear dogs to stand in. Cripres statists are retards.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Bonzi said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...


Your family members sound like idiots, and you are too if, knowing that, you didn't pick up your kids immediately and say "we'll have to visit some other time".


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Good grief. Hysterics are gonna be hysterical. Ban pits from the cities, I don't care. Then have fun when gang members bring in those immense Russian bear dogs to stand in. Cripres statists are retards.



Hysterics? Of course!

Who in their right mind would expect to walk to church, take a stroll, or stand inside their own house without expecting to be attacked by a vicious animal?


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

*Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs*
John K. Bini, MD, Stephen M. Cohn, MD, Shirley M. Acosta, RN, BSN, Marilyn J. McFarland, RN, MS,
Mark T. Muir, MD, and Joel E. Michalek, PhD; for the TRISAT Clinical Trials Group

*Conclusions:*
Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the US mortality rates related to dog bites.

*Characteristics of the Pit Bull Breed*

The attack pattern of pit bulls is different from that of other dogs. With other dogs, children are usually at highest risk of being bitten. In contrast, pit bulls seem to attack adults almost as frequently as they attack children. Pit bulls not only are notorious for their indiscriminate attack pattern but also are well known for the tenacity with which they continue with an attack. The case fatality reported above involved an infant that was mauled by 2 pit bulls. These dogs had previously bitten an 8-year-old relative in the face. When the dog’s owner attempted to stop the attack on the infant by stabbing the dogs with a knife, she became a victim herself, and police officers had to shoot (kill) the dogs at the scene. It is not uncommon to hear of witnessed attacks in which the pit bulls could not be stopped from attacking.

The inbred tenacity of pit bulls, the unrelenting manner in which they initiate and continue their attacks, and the damage they cause are the result of both genetics and environment. Therefore, this breed of dog is inherently dangerous. As stated by one author, “Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a Pit Bull Terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed, and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs and their victims are paying the price.”

A closer look at these figures indicates that 1 person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days, a person loses a body part to a pit bull attack every 5.4 days, 2 persons are injured by pit bulls each day, and 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death each day (Table 3).


TABLE 3.
*Characteristics of Pit Bulls*
*Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Nationally*


Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
Responsible for 65% of all fatal attacks in 2008
6 of 7 fatal dog bites in Texas in 2007 were inflicted by pit bulls
94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked
81% of attacks that occurred off the owner’s property involved pit bulls
One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
1.5 pit bulls are shot to death every day
*CONCLUSIONS*

Dog bites are a serious public health concern in the United States and across the world. They result in substantial emotional and physical trauma and in a substantial economic cost to the victims and to society. Fortunately, fatal dog attacks are rare, but there seems to be a distinct relationship between the severity and lethality of an attack and the breed of dog responsible. The unacceptable actuarial risk associated with certain breeds of dogs (specifically, pit bulls) must be addressed. These breeds should be regulated in the same way in which other dangerous species, such as leopards, are regulated. Individual municipalities need the power to enact ordinances that can protect their citizens from this risk. If they are to obtain such power, the issue must be addressed at the local, county, and state legislative levels.

http://www.terrierman.com/mortality-mauling-vicious-dogs.pdf


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Good grief. Hysterics are gonna be hysterical. Ban pits from the cities, I don't care. Then have fun when gang members bring in those immense Russian bear dogs to stand in. Cripres statists are retards.
> ...


Same argument libs use for guns. Pits are not the only dog breed that attacks people. If they are outlawed the aholes that want a bad ass dog for the purpose of intimidating people will simply move to another breed, like Rotweillers or Dobermans (which used to be the bad dogs). 

I watch German Sheppards more than any other at the dog park. Not because they are evil but many don't understand that powerful working dogs need to works and be subservient to their masters. I belong to a dog forum I don't visit anymore because the libs go ballistic when I say shit like that.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Pit bulls attack indiscriminately



Nonsense. They attack because they were raised to be bad asses. They are loving by nature. It's a human problem, not a dog problem. Just like with guns.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 13, 2015)

Silhouette said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...




pit bulls are actually a wide class of dog 

in the states they had been used for cattle


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## Muhammed (Sep 13, 2015)

And their heads weigh about 30 pounds. That could squash a small child or a kitten.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Same argument libs use for guns. Pits are not the only dog breed that attacks people. If they are outlawed the aholes that want a bad ass dog for the purpose of intimidating people will simply move to another breed, like Rotweillers or Dobermans (which used to be the bad dogs).
> 
> I watch German Sheppards more than any other at the dog park. Not because they are evil but many don't understand that powerful working dogs need to works and be subservient to their masters. I belong to a dog forum I don't visit anymore because the libs go ballistic when I say shit like that.



Same argument libs use for guns?

REALLY? PLEASE provide a link where a gun got off it's leash and attacked someone walking to church.

IDIOT ALERT...


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
> ...



Of course...my pit bull had every reason to attack and try to kill me in my own living room because I picked up his chain that my wife left on the floor after dusting in the dining room. Especially because his chain was a symbol of taking him for a walk, which he loved...


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Same argument libs use for guns. Pits are not the only dog breed that attacks people. If they are outlawed the aholes that want a bad ass dog for the purpose of intimidating people will simply move to another breed, like Rotweillers or Dobermans (which used to be the bad dogs).
> ...


Oh the irony. Follow along s l o w l y. Libs blame it on the gun, if only they didn't have a gun. Same thing. If only they didn't have a Pit Bull. What about all those with friendly Pits?

Like I said, outlawing them would just make another breed the new badass.


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## tigerred59 (Sep 13, 2015)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...



*I live directly across the street from a guy that raises and sells these pits for his income. I live in complete terror every single day that one day these dogs will get lose and be my worst nightmare. I only hope I live to sue the fuck out of him and his wife when this happens. Can't stand the sight of these white mf's*


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


One of my dogs is an AmStaff, which is considered a Pit Bull. I could beat her to death and she'd never growl at me. If you had an out of control dog it was your fault, not the dogs.


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## tigerred59 (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



I don't believe you, video tape you beating your dog and put it on youtube


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

tigerred59 said:


> *I live directly across the street from a guy that raises and sells these pits for his income. I live in complete terror every single day that one day these dogs will get lose and be my worst nightmare. I only hope I live to sue the fuck out of him and his wife when this happens. Can't stand the sight of these white mf's*


No wonder you're wound up so tight. If he's breeding dogs in a residential area he's breaking the law.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

tigerred59 said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


I don't believe you. You're some skinny white Klan member trying to make blacks look bad.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...



Hey pea brain, ask an adult to read this s-l-o-w-l-y for a retard...

*Characteristics of the Pit Bull Breed*

The pit bull is unique in many ways. Historically, the breed was derived from the “butcher’s dog” developed for the blood sport of bull-baiting in England. The dogs were intentionally bred to be stronger than other dogs and to engage in dangerous behaviors that would favor their winning in the ring by fighting a bull to the death.

When this sport was banned in England in approximately 1835, the owners took their dogs to the coal mining communities of Stafford-shire County. There, the dogs were placed into coal pits to fight one another, and the breed was manipulated to be quicker and more agile. This breeding eventually resulted in the smaller, tenacious terriers now known as the American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. The name “pit bull” is associated with dogs displaying these phenotypes. *These fighting dogs were bred and trained not to display behavioral signals of their intentions so that they would have an advantage in the ring. For this reason, pit bulls are frequently known to attack “without warning.”*

For example, one study found that 94% of attacks on children by pit bulls but only 43% of attacks on children by other breeds of dogs were unprovoked.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


Where's the link?


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

*The list for why pitbulls are dangerous, in numbers:*
*

$92.7 million – Dog bite claims totaled $92.7 million for 2,400 claims in California (Insurance Information Institute, 2011). Source.

$500,000 – The typical cost of settlements in attacks  by pit bulls and Rottweilers causing death or serious injury is an average of a half million dollars. The amount of $29,396 was the average cost of a dog bite case in 2011. Source.

3000 % -  Pit bulls and Rottweilers do three times more killing and maiming than all other dogs combined, meaning that their actuarial risk is approximately 3000% higher than that of the average dog. Source.

2,500 – More than 2,500 times higher risk of killing than Labradors. Source.

789% – Over the past decade, there was an increase of 789% in the number of life-threatening pit bull attacks (attacks on children were up 876%; attacks on adults were up 490%; fatalities were up 388%; and maimings were up 1269%.). Source.
66% – 80%  – Over 2/3 (66% – 80%) of the pit bulls who end up at the shelter are surrendered by their owners. Source.

65% – Pit bulls are responsible for 65 percent of all fatal dog attacks nationally. Source.

58% – Fifty eight percent of dogs euthanized at shelters are pit bull types.

44% – Forty four percent of Seeing Eye teams have reported being attacked by other dogs.  Source.

25% – A fourth of all dog bite claims were by due to pit bull bites. Source.

14 – Every fourteen days, someone in the U.S. is killed by a pit bull.

14 – Pitbuls are fourteen times more likely to escape their confines.  Source.

11th – Eleventh in popularity – *American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers and Staffordshire Bull Terriers, ranked 11th in popularity among 16 AKC-registered breeds and had by far the highest risk of killing — more than 2,500 times higher than Labs. Source.

9 – Owners of dangerous breeds are more than 9 times more likely to have been convicted for a crime involving children and more than Source.

8 – Eight times more likely to have been charged with drug crimes than owners of low-risked licensed dogs.  Source.

6 – Six times more likely to kill their owners. Source.

5.4 – Every 5.4. days, a body part is severed and lost in a pit bull attack . Source.

3 – Owners of dangerous dogs are more than three times more likely to have been convicted of domestic abuse. Source.

1/3 of all home insurance claims are dog bites (25% of them, pit bull bites). Source.

3 – It is estimated that pit bull type dogs represent 3% of the total population of dogs in the U.S.A.. Source.

1 -  The Leading biters in 25 states. Source.

1 – The Leading biters, nationally. Source.

1 -  Leading in deaths and serious disfigurements and maimings.  Source.

(U.S. statistics only)

So, is there any way a decent person would deny that Pitbulls ARE dangerous dogs? No, there isn’t.

Pitbulls are dangerous dogs? Vicious? Unpredictable? YES! — NO Dogs, Please!*


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Where's the link?



Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.
Edmund Burke

Thanks for proving you have no capacity to read and learn...just "emote" dogma...

It was linked in post 618...

http://www.terrierman.com/mortality-mauling-vicious-dogs.pdf


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## whitehall (Sep 13, 2015)

Pit bulls are like homosexuals. Some are harmless and others you can't trust around young boys.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Nonsense. They attack because they were raised to be bad asses. They are loving by nature. It's a human problem, not a dog problem. Just like with guns.



*Myth #1: It's the owner not the breed*

The outdated debate, "It's the owner, not the breed," has caused the pit bull problem to grow into a 30-year old problem. Designed to protect pit bull breeders and owners, the slogan ignores the genetic history of the breed and blames these horrific maulings -- inflicted by the pit bull's genetic "hold and shake" bite style -- on environmental factors. While environment plays a role in a pit bull's behavior, it is genetics that leaves pit bull victims with permanent and disfiguring injuries.

The pit bull's genetic traits are not in dispute. Many appellate courts agree that pit bulls pose a significant danger to society and can be regulated accordingly. Some of the genetic traits courts have identified include: unpredictability of aggression, tenacity ("gameness" the refusal to give up a fight), high pain tolerance and the pit bull's "hold and shake" bite style.* According to forensic medical studies, similar injuries have only been found elsewhere on victims of shark attacks.*

Purveyors of this myth also cannot account for the many instances in which pit bull owners and their family members are victimized by their pet dogs. From 2005 to 2014, pit bulls killed 203 Americans, about one citizen every 18 days. Of these deaths, 53% involved a family member and a household pit bull. Notably, in the first 8 months of 2011, nearly half of those killed by a pit bull was its owner. One victim was an "avid supporter" of Bad Rap, a recipient of Michael Vick's dogs.

Pit Bull Myths - DogsBite.org


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Where's the link?
> ...


I asked for the link you quoted from and you took a shit, as usual. It shouldn't have even needed to be asked, it's common sense. 

Like I said, one of my dogs is an AmStaff and also like I said I meet many at the dog park so I prefer my real life experience to your theories. Some of the pdf makes no sense at all. For example, why would the dogs be bred to show no sign of aggression but also be trained to immediately go for the kill once in a ring? I've seen no such behavior after meeting maybe a hundred Pits.

Also many people call a lot of dogs "Pit Bulls" if they are muscular with rounded heads but ANY dog that is to aggressive to be trained needs to be put down

Here are some facts :

Pit Bull Myths - Debunked - American Pit Bull Foundation
*MYTH: All Pit Bulls are mean and vicious.*
It is reported on temperament tests conducted by the American Temperament Test Society that Pit Bulls had a passing rate of 82% or better — compared to only 77% of the general dog population.

These temperament tests consist of putting a dog through a series of unexpected situations, some involving strangers.

Any signs of unprovoked aggression or panic in these situations result in failure of the test. The achievement of Pit Bulls in this study disproves that they are inherently aggressive to people. (Please visit ATTS.org)


*MYTH: Aggression towards other animals means people are next.*
“Many working breeds have antipathy towards other animals – coonhounds go mad at the sight of a raccoon, foxhounds will not hesitate to tear a dog-like fox to shreds, greyhounds live to chase and maul rabbits and even dog-like coyotes. Even the ever-friendly beagle will slaughter a rabbit, given the chance.

And yet the greyhound, coon and foxhound and beagle are among the friendliest of breeds towards humans. And it is the same with the pit bulldog. His work through the years has been control of other animals – never humans. A correct pit bull is more often than not submissive toward all humans, and adores children.

A pit bull that snarls, lunges or growls at non-threatening humans is NOT typical of the breed.” (Written by Diane Jessup)

Pit bulls that do show aggressive behavior towards humans are not typical of the breed and should be humanely euthanized.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Nonsense. They attack because they were raised to be bad asses. They are loving by nature. It's a human problem, not a dog problem. Just like with guns.
> ...


Michael Vick's dog? You mean the ones trained to kill? Good God, you're gullible. Many dogs are capable of similar damage.

The Truth About Pit Bulls






Dog breeds are characterized by certain physical and behavioral traits. Each breed was developed to perform a specific job, whether that job is hunting rabbits, retrieving downed birds, herding livestock or sitting on people’s laps. When developing a breed, breeders selected only those dogs that performed their job best to produce the next generation.

Physical abilities and behavior are both important facets of any breed. A well-bred dog should have both the physical attributes necessary to perform its job and the behavioral tendencies needed to learn it. It’s not surprising that individuals of a specific breed tend to look and behave somewhat similarly. Pointers are more likely than Poodles to point, and sheepdogs are more likely than lapdogs to herd. However, while a dog’s genetics may predispose it to perform certain behaviors, tremendous behavioral variation exists among individuals of the same breed or breed type. It’s also important to note that some dog breeds are now bred for entirely different jobs than those for which they were originally developed. For example, certain strains of Golden Retrievers are now being bred as service dogs, a far cry from their original job of retrieving downed birds.

Today’s pit bull is a descendant of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. When baiting large animals was outlawed in the 1800s, people turned instead to fighting their dogs against each other. These larger, slower bull-baiting dogs were crossed with smaller, quicker terriers to produce a more agile and athletic dog for fighting other dogs.

_Continue to read our official position statement on pit bulls »_

*Tips for Adopting a Pit Bull*

Thinking about adopting a pit bull? Congratulations! Pit bulls can make very sweet and loyal family dogs. Adopting a pit bull should be fun and joyful, so we’ve created a list of handy tips to help you make good choices. 

*Socialization is the key* to a happy and confident dog. All puppies should be enrolled in a puppy class where part of the time is devoted to off-leash play with other dogs. 

*Pit bulls are enthusiastic learners.* They enjoy trick training and many graduate at the head of their obedience classes. There are many pit bull rescue groups that can recommend training classes. 

*It’s play time!* Pits are moderately active indoors and extremely active outdoors—be prepared to spend a minimum of 20 to 30 minutes twice a day engaged in aerobic-level activities with your dog.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Muhammed said:


> And their heads weigh about 30 pounds. That could squash a small child or a kitten.


Same as a rott, a mastiff, a bulldog, a saint..


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...


 Cesar millan took some of Vicks dogs.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Cesar millan took some of Vicks dogs.


I didn't know, thanks. I watched a show on rescuing Vick's dogs. That was part of his fine, I think 2 million. One dog looked like a dead ringer for mine, fortunately she was savable. One was put down, to far gone. 

One was small and very timid. They used it as the bait dog and had it tied up in a corner so to encourage the other Pits to attack, starting small and working their way up. It literally crawled around on leash everywhere and wouldn't stand up near anyone or another dog.


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## featherlite (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Cesar millan took some of Vicks dogs.
> ...




that kind of stuff just makes me sick. 
Pitbulls are wonderful loyal dogs...at one time they were called nanny dogs. Like someone else said, breeding for the wrong reasons and greed changed all that. 
Some are unbelievably sweet as can be some arent. The vet I worked for use to say  "I dont mean to be a breedist but..."   
its just smart to use a a healthy dose of caution around any unfamiliar dog.


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## Snouter (Sep 13, 2015)

Pitbulls are not wonderful nor loyal.  They are bred to be stupid, resistant to pain, and aggressive.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

featherlite said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


They're America's dog. Like any powerful animal, they can be dangerous in the wrong hands. Ours came from a fighting line...he's smart, kind, loving and loyal. He's shared a house with a bunny and lots of kids. We don't set him up for failure, we cultivated his trust and a calm demeanor...and in return, he's trustworthy.He's nine or so now, I have zero concern of him ever biting a kid.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Snouter said:


> Pitbulls are not wonderful nor loyal.  They are bred to be stupid, resistant to pain, and aggressive.





Snouter said:


> Pitbulls are not wonderful nor loyal.  They are bred to be stupid, resistant to pain, and aggressive.


Nonsense, lol. They can have a bit of terrier prey drive going, but not as strong as you'll find in your everyday jack Russell terrier.


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## featherlite (Sep 13, 2015)

Snouter said:


> Pitbulls are not wonderful nor loyal.  They are bred to be stupid, resistant to pain, and aggressive.



They can be very loyal. People will never agree on this.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Cesar millan took some of Vicks dogs.
> ...


I saw that!!! 
My son had Snoop from a pup...I inherited him when they moved and couldn't find a rental that would let them have him. It broke the heart of their little family but we're family too, and Snoops had a good life with us. He's a low energy dog who is easy to control and loves kids and is good with other dogs.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

And we moved in next door to a young family who also have an older male PitBull....raised with their little girl. He's a treasure, too.


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## featherlite (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
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> > koshergrl said:
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Did you ever see Pitbulls and Paroles? Some people are really good with this breed. I love the care they take in finding the right homes.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> ]I asked for the link you quoted from and you took a shit, as usual. It shouldn't have even needed to be asked, it's common sense.
> 
> Like I said, one of my dogs is an AmStaff and also like I said I meet many at the dog park so I prefer my real life experience to your theories. Some of the pdf makes no sense at all. For example, why would the dogs be bred to show no sign of aggression but also be trained to immediately go for the kill once in a ring? I've seen no such behavior after meeting maybe a hundred Pits.
> 
> ...



False narrative...

No one said  *"All Pit Bulls are mean and vicious"*

The FACTS are any dog can bite a human...BUT...when it is a pit bull, it is not a "bite"...it is a vicious attack.

You can ignore the FACTS...


One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
You should go with your emotions and anecdotal evidence...it IS who and what you are...


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## featherlite (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Snouter said:
> 
> 
> > Pitbulls are not wonderful nor loyal.  They are bred to be stupid, resistant to pain, and aggressive.
> ...


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## featherlite (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Snouter said:
> 
> 
> > Pitbulls are not wonderful nor loyal.  They are bred to be stupid, resistant to pain, and aggressive.
> ...



Ive been the potential prey for both.
 If I had to choose...it will always be Jack Russell


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > ]I asked for the link you quoted from and you took a shit, as usual. It shouldn't have even needed to be asked, it's common sense.
> ...



You sound unhinged, as of course we all know you are.  Meanwhile the press is "identifying" dogs as pits....when they are mongrels of uncertain heritage.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

featherlite said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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> > Snouter said:
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Our other dog:


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

I don't let Snoop hang out in back with Mylo because she'll teach him to hunt.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Excellent episode on Cesar....Check this out on YouTube!


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Breed bans are stupid. Especially when it's not a breed but a type. Get rid of pit bulls and another breed will take it's place.



American Pit Bull Terrier,  Staffordshire Bull Terrier and American Staffordshire Terrier.  Let's go with those. They are breeds recognized by the AKC.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)




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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Snoops not registered as any of those. HALLELUJAH


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)




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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
> ...



No.  Story after story we hear about dogs that were not raised to fight attacking their own owners and people around them.  The percentage of dogs trained to fight is relatively small.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> View attachment 50113



I wonder if we can find a tiger in the same pose?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

whitehall said:


> Pit bulls are like homosexuals. Some are harmless and others you can't trust around young boys.



fuck off.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> featherlite said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
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Apparently they are in the wrong hands a lot.  Breed 'em out of existence.  if your dog isn't fixed you're a dick.  If your dog isn't fixed and it's a Pit Bull, you belong in jail.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
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Dogs have the potential to maim and kill. Breed bans won't change that. There is always another breed ready to step into the void. Educate people, educate kids. And shoot dogs that run in packs...another good reason to pack.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > featherlite said:
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Wow you're really scared of dogs. Do you think everybody who is less fearful than you should be imprisoned???


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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> > Iceweasel said:
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if you live somewhere with a breed ban then it probably works great.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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> > koshergrl said:
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I love dogs.  Pit Bulls are dangerous.  While you claim they are some unspecific breed of dog that for whatever reason nobody knows what they look like, every study where the dog was positively identified Pit Bulls are a huge culprit.  Especially when they kill, usually the dog was captured and put down.  Sad way to go for the victim and the perp.  Much better to sterilize your dog so it's offspring at least are not someone else's problem.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Where I grew up and lived a very large portion of my life, if you saw a loose dog or dogs running you are OBLIGATED to shoot them if you can. If you can't you are obliged to notify the sheriff and the owner if you know who it is. No reprieves. Dogs that run are killed. Subsequently, we don't have much problem with dogs attacking randompreachers.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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That makes exactly zero sense. It doesn't matter what breed.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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Why bother curing cancer when Heart disease is around?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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if you live in an apartment complex that has a breed ban, chances are you live near very few Pit Bulls.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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You haven't read any real studies. You base your hysteria on nonsense compiled by interest groups and reporters.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
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Wtf


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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Instead of just saying that.  You should find something that actually counters those studies.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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> > koshergrl said:
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koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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WTF indeed, you want to go target practice on stray dogs. And you claim I'm afraid of them?  Please.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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> > HappyJoy said:
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 wow you truly are too stupid for this convo.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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You haven't cited any studies, idiot.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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Did you not just introduce your own perverse version of dog control?  Shoot them if they are in groups.  Jesus, lady, that's fucking sick.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
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They've been cited throughout this thread. Why don't you take two fucking seconds and check them out.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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It's the law where I come from.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

New Study On Canine Aggression Says Don't Blame The Breed


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
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The law where you come from is if you see a grouping of dogs it's your duty to shoot them?  Can you site the ordinance?


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

That's from huffpost, lap it up. Bfgrns links are from breed ban hysterics and they're crap studies made by biased groups who "identify" the breeds via the articles written by journalists who have no fucking idea what breed the dogs are.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
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 Cite, idiot.  It's  common where you have open range.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> New Study On Canine Aggression Says Don't Blame The Breed



This study is asking dog owners to rate their dogs.  How many were Pit Bulls?


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

OR - Dog - Consolidated Dog Laws | Animal Legal & Historical Center


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



It is cite, It's a phonetic typo, they are quite common. Other than that.  It's the law to shoot dogs running around together?  Like I said,_ cite_ the ordinance.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> OR - Dog - Consolidated Dog Laws | Animal Legal & Historical Center



Could you quote in your link what you are referencing?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > New Study On Canine Aggression Says Don't Blame The Breed
> ...



To continue with this. Do you have a study about dog attacks?  Not whether the family pet barks at strangers.  Everybody thinks they have the best dog in the world, the study is naturally biased.  What I would like to see is a break out of breeds, can you show me?


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
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I gave you the link.  Meanwhile, the aspca says breed bans are useless. Breed Specific Legislation


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > OR - Dog - Consolidated Dog Laws | Animal Legal & Historical Center
> ...


Read it for yourself.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Come on. You said there was some law about shooting dogs guilty of nothing more than being around other dogs.  Show me.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


 The CDC keeps numbers but they provide the disclaimer that the breed tally is not accurate because in very few reports is the breed verified...they get the stats from news articles, and reporters just guess or go with what random ppl tell them.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Totally agree, you're study doesn't break out dog breeds and demonstrates nothing.  In the meantime, how many


koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...



That is true to the extent that the CDC didn't ask anyone to confirm what a Pit Bull is.  So, you'll more than likely post something with a tic-tac-doe board of manipulation "demonstrating" that people can't identify what a Pit Bull is.

In the meantime, the CDC report at least speaks to bread and the numbers are not good for Pit Bulls.  

What you should do is look for are dog attack fatalities and see who the biggest culprit is.  Then try to figure out how many of those dogs got away that couldn't be identified.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...


It says in the link that any person can shoot them if they see them. I've talked with deputies and dad about this. If you're out and you see a dog or dogs running, the presumption is that they are chasing livestock or wildlife....and the expectation is that you shoot them if you can. It's the way it is, everybody knows. Responsible owners dogs don't run.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...


The Cdc does that, I just told you. But with the disclaimer that the breed type, while often reported...us seldom confirmed. Esp in cases of fatalities when the dog is quickly dispatched.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Just quote it.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

D





koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


 dad - dist. Attorney


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...


I can't quote with my stupid phone. It's a miracle that I can serve up links.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...





koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



What does this have to say about the dangers of Pit Bulls?  Nothing.

Anyway, I don't think breed specific laws are enough.  People who have unaltered Pit Bulls should face jail time.  There is big problem with dogs not being neutered in general with Pit Bulls it's even more of a problem.  Owners are stupid, if they can't be responsible for owning a dog they should go to jail.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
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Lolol.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...





koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



I can assure you, you don't have the right to take pot shots at dogs only because they are in a group of other dogs. If you own a gun, do everyone in your community a favor and keep it in your house if you don't understand what is a lawful use of the weapon.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...





koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



You have a Pit?  Is it fixed?


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...


I assure you, you can. Read the link, illiterate.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...


Good fucking grief, you haven't even read the thread? There should be a law against posting on message boards if you don't like to read. What a waste of time you've been. Anyway, bottom line...breed bans are useless. Educate poor stupid ppl where they live.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



When you can figure out how to cite it I'll agree with you.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Do you have a Pit Bull or not?  Sorry, i'm taking notes on what every poster said.  I though I saw pictures you posted of a Pit Bull.  If so, is it fixed?


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...


I linked it, that's good enough.


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## jasonnfree (Sep 13, 2015)

Snouter said:


> Pitbulls are not wonderful nor loyal.  They are bred to be stupid, resistant to pain, and aggressive.



Any facts to back that up?  I've had two pitbulls of my own in the past and never had a problem. 
I've had a couple of dobies in the past also.  Another so called "killer" breed.  Again, no problems.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Was it that difficult?  Is it fixed?

EDIT:  Nice looking pooch btw.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

jasonnfree said:


> Snouter said:
> 
> 
> > Pitbulls are not wonderful nor loyal.  They are bred to be stupid, resistant to pain, and aggressive.
> ...



Anecdotal is not definitive.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Nope, it's a long page, I'm not doing your homework for you.  Cite it.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Apparently they are in the wrong hands a lot.  Breed 'em out of existence.  if your dog isn't fixed you're a dick.  If your dog isn't fixed and it's a Pit Bull, you belong in jail.


Sounds like you need rabbies shots, a short leash and a rawhide chew toy.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently they are in the wrong hands a lot.  Breed 'em out of existence.  if your dog isn't fixed you're a dick.  If your dog isn't fixed and it's a Pit Bull, you belong in jail.
> ...



Thanks for bringing the meaningless.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


True, but that wasn't what I said. It's probably pretty hard to understand things with your head that far up your ass.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > Apparently they are in the wrong hands a lot.  Breed 'em out of existence.  if your dog isn't fixed you're a dick.  If your dog isn't fixed and it's a Pit Bull, you belong in jail.
> ...


Shrieking that pits should be destroyed but not dogs running in packs. Hj is the weakest link. Also managed to miss the fact that I own a pit.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Cool, here it is, can you show me where this give you the right to shoot at a pack of dogs?



> (1) Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, any dog, whether licensed or not, which, while off the premises owned or under control of its owner, kills, wounds, or injures any livestock not belonging to the master of such dog, is a public nuisance and may be killed immediately by any person. However, nothing in this section applies to any dog acting under the direction of its master, or the agents or employees of such master.
> 
> (2) If any dog, not under the control of its owner or keeper, is found chasing or feeding upon the warm carcass of livestock not the property of such owner or keeper it shall be deemed, prima facie, as engaged in killing, wounding or injuring livestock.
> 
> ...


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
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I never said that.  You're lying and should retract.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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He's not. You should call the cops lolol.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
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Pointing out that you are deranged isn't meaningless.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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Obviously you have nothing to offer or you would have.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
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Read (2) where it says any dog running is presumed to be engaged in chasing....and anybody may kill them.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
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Really?  People really don't fix their dogs in this day and age?  Male or female?


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Hj is a colossal dumbass. It had to be said.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

jasonnfree said:


> Snouter said:
> 
> 
> > Pitbulls are not wonderful nor loyal.  They are bred to be stupid, resistant to pain, and aggressive.
> ...


The bedwetters don't want facts.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...



Yep, if they are chasing livestock, that's something different entirely than the picture you painted.  You made it seem like it's a moral imperative to shoot at random packs of dogs. You obviously don't understand your own laws and I really don't care what you say to me here, as long as you know...you're not allowed to do that then something good came out of this.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Hj is a colossal dumbass. It had to be said.



Right.  You think shooting at random dogs is legal.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...


 you really don't read, do you? You're boring me. It's not my job to tell you shit over and over because you're too obtuse to get it in the course of the convo.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...


I did. Go back and read the thread. After you get some air.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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Ok, if your dog isn't fixed, you should do so, it's called taking responsibility.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


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You need to read it again. ANY DOGS RUNNING OFF THEIR PROPERTY AND NOT UNDER THE OWNERS COMMAND are considered to be chasing and anybody can shoot them.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Haven't seen you provide much.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


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My dog is fine thank you. Healthy, happy, good with kids.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Yep.  They have to be endangering something, that's a little more than just a pack of dogs.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


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Not with your head that far up your ass. Like I said, go get some air.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


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male or female? When are you going to retract the lie you said about me?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Is there anything real about the discussion of Pit Bulls?  So far you haven't said anything worthwhile to me.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

So it appears that hj only absorbs every third or fourth word he reads....and he doesn't read sentences or posts in their entirety. And then expects others to fill in the gaps because he can't be bothered to just go back and read what he missed.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


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I have already shared the sex, name, photos and history of my pit in this thread...during the time when you were posting. And what lie, you psycho???


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> So it appears that hj only absorbs every third or fourth word he reads....and he doesn't read sentences or posts in their entirety. And then expects others to fill in the gaps because he can't be bothered to just go back and read what he missed.



You claimed I'm for putting down Pit Bulls.  That's a lie.

You said picking off dogs in a pack is legal where you live.  It looks to be a tad more complicated than that.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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The thread is over 70 pages and quite honestly from yesterday you are not that memorable. You have a Pit Bull, male or female, what is so difficutl about that?

The lie is you stated I want to put down Pit Bulls.  Quote me.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > So it appears that hj only absorbs every third or fourth word he reads....and he doesn't read sentences or posts in their entirety. And then expects others to fill in the gaps because he can't be bothered to just go back and read what he missed.
> ...


No, it's not. You just have comprehension problems. Any dogs off their property and not under control of their owner are presumed to be chasing and anybody can shoot them.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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No, if they are chasing livestock or endangering others.  You do not have the right to just shoot at dogs if they are in a group of 2 or more and not bothering anyone.  Do you really want to support that?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Really?  Where does it say that?  What if your dog got out and started playing with other dogs and somebody shot it, I guess you'd be understanding. Really glad me and my dog don't live anywhere near you and you're nutty beliefs about shooting random dogs int he street.

I'm for strict laws about sterilizing dangerous breeds of dogs, you're for making target practice out of the neighbors pet.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
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It's in the statute, you blithering idiot. Though it's 609.150 (1)(2)...


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Quote it.

Come on, pack of dogs, right to kill them.  Good luck, psycho.

EDIT:  This is why people should at the very least have to take a test about local laws before being able to carry a gun outside of their own home.


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## Maryland Patriot (Sep 13, 2015)

Godboy said:


> How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> 
> These dogs are ticking time bombs, therefore they aren't fit for domestication. They should be outlawed!
> 
> ...


and yet abortion is ok.
 hypocrisy? I think so.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
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609.150 (1) Destruction of dog that harms or chases livestock, exemptions 

(1) Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, any dog, whether licensed or not, which, while off the premises owned or under control of its owner, kills, wounds, or injures any livestock not belonging to the master of such dog, is a public nuisance and may be killed immediately by any person. 

That's (1) followed by...


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Nope, that's killing a dog for killing livestock (which is a tad ironic).

Please, show me where it's OK to shoot at dogs that do nothing more than run in packs, psycho.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
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No, it's killing a dog for CHASING LIVESTOCK, which includes wildlife, which does not have to be seen. Sorry, hysteric, I know this law. I've discussed to at length with deputies, district attorneys and judges as well as landowners. Ps....everybody is armed in Grant and Wheeler counties.And if you see dogs running, they are chasing, and they are shot.








 of such


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

(2) If any dog, not under the control of its owner or keeper, is found chasing or feeding upon the warm carcass of livestock not the property of such owner or keeper it shall be deemed, prima facie, as engaged in killing, wounding or injuring livestock....

See where it says CHASING (which means running) equals engaged in wounding. And any person may shoot. And groups of dogs away from their owners don't"play", you idiot. They hunt.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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This is what you said:



> Educate people, educate kids. And shoot dogs that run in packs...another good reason to pack.



Only an asshole would shoot a dog for doing nothing more than running with other dogs.  Like I said, if you have a gun, I feel sorry for your neighbors dogs.  If you don't understand what is a lawful use of your firearm then don't carry it outside of your house.  

The law in your area bascially states if a dog is chasing livestock then at that time it's OK to shoot (I don't necessarily endorse this behavior but that's your laws) but you think it's legal to shoot them if they are just in a group. You're a psycho.

At this point, I hope everybody is armed around you, somebody needs to protect themselves from you.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

CHASING. Running dogs are CHASING. 

This is exhausting. I know third graders who are more effective readers.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> CHASING. Running dogs are CHASING.
> 
> This is exhausting. I know third graders who are more effective readers.



Running dogs are chasing?  So, now at this point the dog doesn't even have to be part of a pack.  if your dog gets loose and takes a jog then it's OK to shoot it?  You're a psycho.

Where is Weasilzips or whatever to defend this behavior?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

My only question to you would be when is it not OK to kill the neighbors family pet?

Do you realize in your insane attempt to defend Pit Bulls you just sacrificed everybody else's dog?


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > CHASING. Running dogs are CHASING.
> ...


That's what the law says. That's the way it's interpreted, and that's the WA it's applied. AND if you see dogs running and don't take action, you can inherit a big fat portion of the liability for any animals they kill.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> My only question to you would be when is it not OK to kill the neighbors family pet?


When it's in its own yard, or under the neighbor's control.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Where?  You have yet to show me that running dogs are legal to shoot, psycho.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > My only question to you would be when is it not OK to kill the neighbors family pet?
> ...



So, if your dog got out of your property then it's open season?

We've gone from OK to killing dogs when in the company of other dogs. to killing dogs if they are running to kill the dogs when not on their owners property.  Wow, that is extremely extreme.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

What do you think running dogs, in the middle of nowhere, miles from home, are doing?


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
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I did. I can't help it if you can't comprehend the letter of the law.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
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It's the law. Take it up with fish and game, the Oregon legislature, and livestock owners.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> What do you think running dogs, in the middle of nowhere, miles from home, are doing?



Running. Are you saying that you as a Pit Bull owner assume that all running dogs are up to something more than simply running?  Dogs run and you want to shoot them for it, psyhco.  Who the fuck in holy hell is going to come to your aid?  Where is Whineyweasil now?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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it's not, you have yet to quote anything that even remotely interprets what you are saying.  Seriously, please, for the sake of the dogs in your neighborhood, call the authorities and turn yourself in, psycho.

If your dog was off your property, you OK if someone shoots it?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Let's also not forget that you falsely claimed I'm for putting down all Pit Bulls, psycho.  I never went there, you're the one for killing random dogs.

Eh, looks like you left, I don't blame you,  you blew it big time.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
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YES. If it's chasing anything (except, oddly, cickens lolol). If it's just sitting on the side of the road, no. But if it's running, it's presumed to be chasing, and it can be shot.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Maryland Patriot said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...





koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
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Fine, for fuck sake, quote it already.

This is what I;m seeing and there is no evidence that a dog "running" is a valid target.



> (1) Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, any dog, whether licensed or not, which, while off the premises owned or under control of its owner, kills, wounds, or injures any livestock not belonging to the master of such dog, is a public nuisance and may be killed immediately by any person. However, nothing in this section applies to any dog acting under the direction of its master, or the agents or employees of such master.
> 
> (2) If any dog, not under the control of its owner or keeper, is found chasing or feeding upon the warm carcass of livestock not the property of such owner or keeper it shall be deemed, prima facie, as engaged in killing, wounding or injuring livestock.
> 
> ...



if the dog is chasing livestock or feeding off of it (I don't agree with this, but I respect the law), but just running is not cause to shoot it, psycho. Why am I doing your homework for you?

Please tell me you don't walk out of your house with a loaded firearm.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Let's also not forget that you falsely claimed I'm for putting down all Pit Bulls, psycho.  I never went there, you're the one for killing random dogs.
> 
> Eh, looks like you left, I don't blame you,  you blew it big time.


No I didn't. You're just so incredibly stupid it's depressing to deal with you. I proved all my statements. You don't acknowledge it because you can't, or won't, read.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Maryland Patriot said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
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I did.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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I did. Anyone can shoot dogs that are running.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Does your neighbor have the right to shoot your dog if it's running down the road? Did a donkey kick you in the head?

You keep changing the perimeters as to when it's OK to shoot a dog and they become looser and looser.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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Your understanding is compromised, and I can't help that.

"Some states, however, allow farmers to shoot any dog that is, in the words of the Indiana statute, "roaming over the country unattended." Under this statute, an appeals court upheld the right of a farmer to shoot dogs he said were trying to get into his chicken pen in the middle of the night. (Puckett v. Miller, 381 N.E.2d 1087 (Ind. App. 1978).) The dogs, two coonhounds, had been hunting with their owner but got separated from him in a heavy rainstorm about 2 a.m. (For the uninitiated, raccoon hunting is done at night.) Under the relatively severe Indiana law, it made no difference that the dogs were bothering the chickens; their hours were numbered as soon as they got away from their master." I'll post the link separately.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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When Killing a Dog Is Legally Justified | Nolo.com


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


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koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Indiana?  What does that have to do with Orgeon?  Other than it was probably the first state that popped up that you could attempt to squeeze into whatever psychotic point you were trying to make.

Even in your own quote, the Indiana law was called "severe", Jesus.

So, just to be clear.  You stated a local Oregon statue, you are completely unable to back up your claim that it is legal to shoot random running dogs in the neighborhood. In order to defend yourself you post something about Indiana law and was a farmer is legal to do on their own property (though I really don't agree with it, it's the law) and all of this is part of your effort to debate me about forcing owner to simply sterilize their Pit Bull. 

Oh and I forgot, according to you, your neighbors have the right to shoot your dog if it ever gets out, classy.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
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Nolo?  Link isn't working.  But I'd guess it's not going to state that it's ok to shoot random dogs, psycho.

Oh, it's working, here is the magic quote:



> Most statutes do not allow a farmer to shoot dogs that are merely running loose (at large). A North Dakota rancher, who shot a neighbor's greyhound after it ran through his cattle herd without particularly disturbing the cattle, was not protected by the state statute, which allows killing a dog only if it is "worrying" livestock. The rancher had to pay $300 to the dog's owner. (_Trautman v. Day,_ 273 N.W.2d 712 (N.D. 1979).
> 
> Some states, however, allow farmers to shoot any dog that is, in the words of the Indiana statute, "roaming over the country unattended." Under this statute, an appeals court upheld the right of a farmer to shoot dogs he said were trying to get into his chicken pen in the middle of the night. (_Puckett v. Miller,_ 381 N.E.2d 1087 (Ind. App. 1978).) The dogs, two coonhounds, had been hunting with their owner but got separated from him in a heavy rainstorm about 2 a.m. (For the uninitiated, raccoon hunting is done at night.) Under the relatively severe Indiana law, it made no difference that the dogs were bothering the chickens; their hours were numbered as soon as they got away from their master.
> 
> If you lose a dog to a trigger-happy farmer, in most instances, there is absolutely no way to prove that it wasn't doing what the farmer or rancher who shot it says it was doing. The only other witness is likely to be the dog, and it isn't talking. So the lesson is simple: If you live in a rural area or close to one, NEVER let your dog run loose off your property. Farmers may shoot first and ask questions later, if at all.



Yeah, it doesn't support your claim that all the dog has to be doing is "running".  The best it says is that you probably can't prove your case against the person who shot your dog because there are no witnesses. Again, you lost and this isn't even your home state, why are you going out of your way to prove it's OK to shoot a dog out for a trot?  You're a psycho.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
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She must have hooked up with the that psycho Lonelystar. He was bragging about how he shot stray dogs just for being on his ranch.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> HappyJoy said:
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Wow, you know people like this are out there and we think we are prepared when we run up against them.  But, shit, I'm wanting Pit Bulls to be fixed, maybe their owners should be.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Asclepias said:
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Pit Bulls are a tough dog for people to own. They are dominant and worst of all capable of killing a grown man.  I would say people should have to get a class on raising them before owning them. The dumb or criminally minded owners have given this outstanding breed a bad name. The retarded OP has never owned a pit bull and remains a victim of the media.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> HappyJoy said:
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I think most Pit Bulls are probably harmless. Just like most legally owned firearms are not used illegally.  Statistically they are involved in a lot of dog bites and fatalities compared to any other breed. Also, Pit Bull owners tend to not neuter their dogs at the rate of other dog owners.  This should change.  I'm not for taking peoples' dogs away, but they should be fixed and bred to extinction.  To me that would be the humane thing to do.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Asclepias said:
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Most pits are pretty tame and stable dogs. Bred to extinction? I would be against that. I think they are the best dogs in the world. They are not for everyone specifically for the reason I mentioned.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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What do you do about those dogs that aren't for everyone who get it in the hands of people who are ready for them?  It seems to be happening more frequently. Actually, since the Michael Vick case Pit Bull attacks are only on the rise.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Asclepias said:
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What a load of horseshit, lol.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Asclepias said:
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We should make it illegal for inner city dwellers to have dogs.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Asclepias said:
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I am assuming you meant "not ready for them"?  I would be for requiring some sort of certificate saying you were trained how to specifically raise a pit. I know some people that do great work with adult dogs but my instincts have always told me the best dog is one that you have known and raised since it was a young pup.  What is happening to pits is the same thing that happened with Dobies and German sheperds. Now Pits and Rotts are getting the vicious rap.  As more people get these dogs of course the rates of bites will go up. Not too long ago more people had poodles. Guess what? They lead in the number of bites as well.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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> > Asclepias said:
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Yep, thank your for clarifying, I did mean "not ready for them".

The problem with special training is what happens when the dog gets out?  it happens, who hasn't wandered a neighborhood searching for their dog a time or two?  The other is Pit Bulls are notorious for not being neutered and they end up in the pound, a lot.  They also are not the most adoptable dogs in the world and many of them are needlessly put to sleep.  How about for all dogs it's required (like it is now) that they be neutered.  if they are not then the penalties should increase. Involve vets, boarding facilities and whomever cares for dogs on a professional level.  I would just say the penalty for intact Pit Bulls be a little stiffer.  Before I said 6 months in jail, maybe that's for repeat offenders but why not the pocket book?  

In many ways this is reminiscent of gun control.  The difference being is that the owner of a gun usually has more control over it but liberals for whatever reason have a soft spot for a dog breed in spite of the evidence that they are more dangerous than other dog breeds.


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## jon_berzerk (Sep 13, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
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exactly


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
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I'm not a liberal you idiot.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Anybody who is knowledgeable about dogs and livestock knows that dogs who are just running with other dogs are the most dangerous dogs on the planet.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Check this out on YouTube!


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Check this out on YouTube!


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Dumbasses who think a particular breed should be banned, but packs of dogs running are just playing really have no business chiming in on this topic. They are the problem.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
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> > Asclepias said:
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I know you're not, moron.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Anybody who is knowledgeable about dogs and livestock knows that dogs who are just running with other dogs are the most dangerous dogs on the planet.



Do yourself a favor and stay away from dog parks.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Dumbasses who think a particular breed should be banned, but packs of dogs running are just playing really have no business chiming in on this topic. They are the problem.



Find some statistics where dog packs are more dangerous than Pit Bulls, you can't.   Anyway, posting two videos does not a point make.  it is illegal for you to shoot dogs whether they are in packs or not for simply being dogs, psycho.  If it were legal you would have quoted it, you tried, you failed.

Actually you doubled down when you stated it was OK to kill a single dog for merely "running".  At what point are you put into a straight jacket with all of your responsibilities taken away from you?

And what of your final solution for stray dogs?  You want to preemptively shoot them before they harm anyone.  However with Pit Bulls who are statistically proven to be violent you just want to leave them be?  By your logic you should be gunning them down in roving posses.

When are you going to retract your statement about me wanting to kill Pit Bulls?


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## JOSweetHeart (Sep 13, 2015)

To me if you are going to have a pet, you should make sure that the pet is safe, but also not able to attack anyone because if it does, be prepared to lose something in response.

God bless you always!!!

Holly


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## LogikAndReazon (Sep 13, 2015)

Its usually the owners of those dogs that are the animals......


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Dumbasses who think a particular breed should be banned, but packs of dogs running are just playing really have no business chiming in on this topic. They are the problem.
> ...


You are remarkably stupid. Dog parks are enclosed areas and owners are present. Not the same thing as seeing five or six dogs racing across a field, no handlers in sight. Please don't own dogs.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> HappyJoy said:
> 
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> > koshergrl said:
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What are the statistics on dog pack attacks?  Not that it matters, you claimed its legal to shoot a single dog as long as it's committing the crime of "running" but yet you won't do the most common sense thing and just fix your own dog, instead you're "packing" and one of those reasons is so you can shoot random dogs.  

Two questions you still haven't answered.

1. When are you going to retract the lie where you said I'm for killing Pit Bulls?

2. if your dog were running around loose is it legal for your neighbors to shoot it?  Should they?

Come on, psycho, answer the questions.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
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> > HappyJoy said:
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I wouldnt call it special training. I would call it required training for pits/rotties and suggested training for other dog owners. Socialization is key. If your dog gets out then it wont attack someone out of fear.  I cant say they wont attack other animals because they were bred to fight.  Escalating penalties should be a part of it if your dog does some damage while out.  There are a lot of cons that agree with me on this one subject. The dogs are really just the victims of media hype and popularity.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Dumbasses who think a particular breed should be banned, but packs of dogs running are just playing really have no business chiming in on this topic. They are the problem.
> ...


I hate to say it but CrackGirl is semi correct for once in her life about this one specific item.  Dogs are pack animals and the dynamics of a pack will effect dogs in unpredictable ways. It only takes 2 dogs to form a pack.  They key off each other so if one dog attacks someone or something even a dog that was normally friendly to people will join in on the attack. Its pretty much their instincts. Its rare to see a dog that will not be effected by this instinct.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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I keep hearing about media hype but I don't see it.  I see that deceptive diagram that pro-Pit Bull people like to drag out that somehow proves Pit Bulls are hard to identify.  However, in studies of dog attacks where the breed is known, Pit Bulls rank high.  

I'm sure owners probably play a part of it however there are so many stories of normal people whose dogs attacked them or someone in their family.  To me a slow breeding out makes the best sense and requires the destruction of no dogs (the ones that don't attack at least).


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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I'm not saying dog packs can't be dangerous.  But I don't think the solution is to pick them off if their only crime is "running".  Anyway, dogs often get loose when someone leaves their gate open, many households are multi-dog, two dogs running around is not a reason to freakout and shoot them, chances are they are friendly.  Are you really saying multiple dogs should be shot on site?

I'm beginning to think people who like Pit Bulls have an unnatural fear of stray dogs, I suppose caution would come with the territory when you are used to Pit Bulls, is that the special handling?


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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I've seen the media hype in action plenty of times.  That diagram is correct. Most people cant tell what a pitbull is so I'm pretty sure plenty of those "attack by pit bull" stories are a case of mistaken identity.  Often I have to realize the public simply cant recognize the difference that I see as pretty apparent. So even when the breed is supposedly "known" there is nothing really conclusive unless there is an actual DNA test.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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I don't.  The dogs in that chart are either rare breeds in the United States that your average American will not come across or they present dogs that do not look like their breed.  It's intentionally misleading.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

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The laws for shooting dogs at large don't apply in city limits.

The pack that killed that little old woman were neighborhood dogs that people were feeding. No pits.

What's with your stupid demands that I do this or I do that? First you were too stupid to follow the link and demanded the statute. I gave you that and you demanded I provide the text. I did that and you didn't understand it, and now you're demanding statistics on packs vs pit deaths? You're a fucking illiterate lunatic. I seriously hope you don't have dogs because you aren't competent to handle them. I doubt you are competent to read hair conditioner directions. You've probably been conditioning your hair with Jergens hand lotion your entire life because you can't be bothered to read past the "J" on the label.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Can you identify the Boxer?


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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I agree. I would never shoot a dog unless it was seriously attacking me or a child.  Most dogs have a healthy fear of humans if not trained to attack them.  I only agree that the two or more dogs can be potentially dangerous. That caution comes from dealing with all types of dogs. The difference with pits is that they are capable of a sustained attack where other dogs would stop attacking due to being winded or harmed. Pits have an extremely high pain tolerance and a lazer like focus once they set their minds to do something.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

Btw, genius...ppl who are for breed bans are for destroying the breed. The way it works...once the ban is in place, and you are cited for having the breed, you have x amount of days to get rid of the dog. If you don't, it's seized and euthanized. I'm not retracting my statement because you're so fucking stupid you don't even know what a breed ban consists of. I doubt you read to the end of that sentence, either. You read the first three words and said "ok I'm in!" like a true retard.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> Can you identify the Boxer?


All those dogs at one time or another have been called pit bulls by people that were attacked.  There was a case that grabbed national headlines and people called the dogs pits when they were really Cane Corsos if I recall correctly. These dogs look like gigantic pit bulls.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> The laws for shooting dogs at large don't apply in city limits.



Great, can you quote the law that does apply where you live?  So far it's been a state law that specifically mentions the chasing of livestock, I would assume livestock isn't common in most cities.  I don't think you know what you're talking about, actually it's quite obvious. 

[quoe]The pack that killed that little old woman were neighborhood dogs that people were feeding. No pits.[/quote]

And?  Are you saying we should kill all the Pit Bulls to?  I can show you videos of those attacks as well, gruesome. 



> What's with your stupid demands that I do this or I do that? First you were too stupid to follow the link and demanded the statute. I gave you that and you demanded I provide the text. I did that and you didn't understand it, and now you're demanding statistics on packs vs pit deaths? You're a fucking illiterate lunatic. I seriously hope you don't have dogs because you aren't competent to handle them. I doubt you are competent to read hair conditioner directions. You've probably been conditioning your hair with Jergens hand lotion your entire life because you can't be bothered to read past the "J" on the label.



Little demand like retracting the lie you told about my stance?  I think I'm in my right.

Also, you made the case it's OK to shoot dogs for doing nothing more than be dogs so, why not yours if it got out?

I do have a dog, I've had dogs all my life and I've said and done nothing to demonstrate I'm incompetent.  I'm only questioning your ridiculous argument.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


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> > The laws for shooting dogs at large don't apply in city limits.
> ...



And?  Are you saying we should kill all the Pit Bulls to?  I can show you videos of those attacks as well, gruesome. 



> What's with your stupid demands that I do this or I do that? First you were too stupid to follow the link and demanded the statute. I gave you that and you demanded I provide the text. I did that and you didn't understand it, and now you're demanding statistics on packs vs pit deaths? You're a fucking illiterate lunatic. I seriously hope you don't have dogs because you aren't competent to handle them. I doubt you are competent to read hair conditioner directions. You've probably been conditioning your hair with Jergens hand lotion your entire life because you can't be bothered to read past the "J" on the label.



Little demand like retracting the lie you told about my stance?  I think I'm in my right.

Also, you made the case it's OK to shoot dogs for doing nothing more than be dogs so, why not yours if it got out?

I do have a dog, I've had dogs all my life and I've said and done nothing to demonstrate I'm incompetent.  I'm only questioning your ridiculous argument.[/QUOTE]
There's so much stupid in that post, lol. You have a gift for getting things backwards, don't you....Boxer is no. 14


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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Actually the two dogs were Presa Canarios but same thing. They were mistakenly identified as "large pit bulls" by our local news media.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

And why the fuck would I look up dog at large statutes for "the city" I live in now? What does that have to do with anything????


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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The point of the diagram is to make the person looking the chart go "Hmm, I can't pick out the Pit Bull".  They do this by showing dogs of breeds that are very rare in the US and look similar to a Pit Bull or common dogs in the US that look nothing like their breed.  The Boxer for example looks nothing like a real Boxer.  In the diagram above they alos do not show the bodies of many dogs because they look nothing like a Pit Bull. 

Here is an article on the subect:
The TRUTH About Pit Bulls: Find the Pit Bull


> *Find the Pit Bull*
> 
> After hearing from someone who was frustrated that "grown men with children are still asking, 'but how can you identify a pit bull?'" and wondering if BSL is feasible because pit bulls are shape shifting , I decided to break down the "Find the Pit Bull" test. The fact that the pit bull community has now decided they can identify the headless corpse of a puppy as a pit bull kind of has taken the wind out of my sails, but I persevere anyway.
> Find the Pit Bull
> ...



More in the link


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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Right, now, how often does it happen?  Or are we blowing one story out of proportion?  There are studies of dog attack fatalities where they got the dog, it's not like they get away.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

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I have a friend who brought a pair of these up from...Chile or Argentina, I don't remember which. They were wonderful dogs.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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No, I already told you, mandatory sterilization. I'm not interested in killing Pit Bulls unless they attack, I've already told you this.





> > What's with your stupid demands that I do this or I do that? First you were too stupid to follow the link and demanded the statute. I gave you that and you demanded I provide the text. I did that and you didn't understand it, and now you're demanding statistics on packs vs pit deaths? You're a fucking illiterate lunatic. I seriously hope you don't have dogs because you aren't competent to handle them. I doubt you are competent to read hair conditioner directions. You've probably been conditioning your hair with Jergens hand lotion your entire life because you can't be bothered to read past the "J" on the label.
> 
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There's so much stupid in that post, lol. You have a gift for getting things backwards, don't you....Boxer is no. 14[/QUOTE]

Ok.  Humor me.

You are now saying it's legal to shoot stray dogs for "running" in rural Oregon.  Says who?  You're last source (which was pulling teeth) from you showed no such thing.

Lastly, do your neighbors have the right to shoot your dog if it get loose and is trotting down the street?  According to you ,yes.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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The boxer was the first dog in the lineup but it was a puppy. I think you have to be some kind of stupid to mix up some of the dogs with pits but again I am talking from the point of view of someone that is extremely familiar with the breed.  I have seen people freak out over boxers thinking they are pits or calm down when I let them think my pit is a boxer. Most people cannot tell the difference between say an American Bulldog and a pit. The dog on the new Little Rascals was actually a American Bulldog. and not a pit. American Bulldogs are extremely popular.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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That's the point of the chart, to try and convince people that Pit Bulls are difficult to identify.  Let's face it, you didn't know that was a Boxer until you looked it up. That dog looks closer to a Pit Bull pup than a Boxer.It's intentional that they did that.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

Staffordshire Bull Terrier.  Not a pit and also popular in the US.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Staffordshire Bull Terrier.  Not a pit and also popular in the US.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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Uh yeah I did know it was a boxer and I didnt have to look it up. I'm pretty familiar with Boxers too. Pitbull pups dont have the really droopy muzzleslike boxers. Their muzzles may be a little wrinkled but they are pretty tight.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

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Ok.  Humor me.

You are now saying it's legal to shoot stray dogs for "running" in rural Oregon.  Says who?  You're last source (which was pulling teeth) from you showed no such thing.

Lastly, do your neighbors have the right to shoot your dog if it get loose and is trotting down the street?  According to you ,yes.[/QUOTE]


Again. You say you are for breed bans. Breed ban means euthanizing the banned breed. 

Do you have organic brain issues? Because we went over as nauseum the statute that explained that in rural Oregon, dog at large that is running is presumed to be engaged in illegal pursuit and can be killed by anyone. You don't think that's what it says...because you're illiterate...but I can't help with that.  

  it's bedtime here.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Staffordshire Bull Terrier.  Not a pit and also popular in the US.



No, it's one of a couple breeds of dogs that are considered Pit Bulls.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

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Cite a few.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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Who considers this unique breed to be a pit bull?  See this is exactly what i'm talking about.

Staffordshire Bull Terrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a medium-sized, stocky, and very muscular dog, with a similar appearance to the much larger American Staffordshire Terrier and American Pit Bull Terrier, ......."


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


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They're lumped in which is why layman identification of dogs as PitBull is so misleading. Any dog with the jaw is called a pit...and they aren't all pits at all.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Again. You say you are for breed bans. Breed ban means euthanizing the banned breed.



I said I was for businesses and local government establishing their own bans.  As well as insurance companies charging you and arm and a leg to cover your dog.  That means I'm for letting the locals figure it out, if they don't go BSL, that's fine too.  If they do then you would need to move I guess. Though I would also be for grandfathering any law in where you just can't get more Pit Bulls. 



> Do you have organic brain issues? Because we went over as nauseum the statute that explained that in rural Oregon, dog at large that is running is presumed to be engaged in illegal pursuit and can be killed by anyone. You don't think that's what it says...because you're illiterate...but I can't help with that.  View attachment 50133  it's bedtime here.



Doesn't say that at all.  It mentions chasing livestock, not simply running down the street.  Here it is:

*609.150¹ *
*Right to kill dog that harms or chases livestock*
(1)Except as provided in subsection (3) of this section, any dog, whether licensed or not, which, while off the premises owned or under control of its owner, kills, wounds, or injures any livestock not belonging to the master of such dog, is a public nuisance and may be killed immediately by any person. However, nothing in this section applies to any dog acting under the direction of its master, or the agents or employees of such master.

(2)If any dog, not under the control of its owner or keeper, is found chasing or feeding upon the warm carcass of livestock not the property of such owner or keeper it shall be deemed, prima facie, as engaged in killing, wounding or injuring livestock.

(3)No person shall kill any dog for killing, wounding, injuring or chasing chickens upon a public place, highway or within the corporate limits of any city. [Amended by 1975 c.749 §6]

So, if the dog is chasing livestock or in the act of eating it, you can shoot it (unless it's chickens).  Where does it say you can shoot a dog simply for running?  And no, it's not presumed that if a dog runs its chasing livestock.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

And that's why breed bans are stupid.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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Your own link calls it a Pit Bull.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> And that's why breed bans are stupid.



Great answer, keep up the good work.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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Where?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

These are classified as Pit Bulls:

Learn the names of the different dog breeds that comprise a "pit bull," the selective breeding history of the pit bull (dogfighting) and answers to other frequently asked questions.

*

* *

* *

* *




* *

* *

* *

*
American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier and American bulldog.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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First link, first paragraph.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

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Chasing livestock is what dogs are doing when they're running unsupervised in cattle and sheep country. And I also provided the law from yet another state that said ppl could shoot dogs at large. I've no doubt you misinterpreted what I said, as well as what the laws state. I appreciate your confusion. But as I've said, your inability to grasp concepts doesn't make me wrong.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> These are classified as Pit Bulls:
> 
> Learn the names of the different dog breeds that comprise a "pit bull," the selective breeding history of the pit bull (dogfighting) and answers to other frequently asked questions.
> 
> ...



No those are not all Pit Bulls. The APBT is a distinctive breed like all those other dogs are distinctive breeds.


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## mdk (Sep 13, 2015)

A lot of what I see when it comes to these ordinances aimed at Pit Bulls is a lot overly-dramatic and reactionary bullshit.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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Got it, dogs only run when chasing cattle.  I guess that makes the decision to shoot them trouble free.  That's ridiculous.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

mdk said:


> A lot of what I see when it comes to these ordinances aimed at Pit Bulls is a lot overly-dramatic and reactionary bullshit.


Based on hysterical reporting from idiot reporters who write stories long on sensationalism, and short on fact. Plus they rarely report non pit attacks.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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It said commonly known as....

" is one of several breeds commonly known as pit bulls."

That just tells the reader that lots of people group these dogs together and are calling them that out of ignorance. Hence the term "commonly" and lack of capitalization of the term "pit bull". There is only one breed that are APBT and thats why there is a DNA test for verification.

ANDR American Pitbull Terrier DNA Testing


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

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 it is ridiculous. Why on earth did you say it?


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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No, they are a grouping of dog breeds with similar traits.  When people talk about Pit Bull statistics, these are the dogs they are talking about.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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That seeing a running dog is reason enough to shoot it.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

More on Pit Bulls:

Pit bulls were created by breeding bulldogs and terriers together to produce a dog that combined the gameness and agility of the terrier with the strength of the bulldog.[3] In the United Kingdom, these dogs were used in blood sports such as bull-baiting, bear-baiting and cock fighting. These blood sports were officially eliminated in 1835 as Britain began to introduce animal welfare laws. Since dogfights were cheaper to organize and far easier to conceal from the law than bull or bear baits, blood sport proponents turned to pitting their dogs against each other instead. Dog fighting was used as both a blood sport (often involving gambling) and a way to continue to test the quality of their stock. For decades afterwards, dog fighting clandestinely took place in small areas of Britain and America. In the early 20th century pit bulls were used as catch dogs in America for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, and drive livestock, and as family companions.[3] Some have been selectively bred for their fighting prowess.[4][5]

Pit bulls successfully fill the role of companion dogs, police dogs,[10][11] and therapy dogs.[12] Pit bulls also constitute the majority of dogs used for illegal dog fighting in America.[13] In addition, law enforcement organisations report these dogs are used for other nefarious purposes, such as guarding illegal narcotics operations,[14][15] use against police,[16] and as attack dogs.[17]

In an effort to counter the fighting reputation of pit bull-type dogs, in 1996 the San Francisco Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals renamed pit bull terriers to "St. Francis Terriers", so that people might be more likely to adopt them.[18] 60 temperament-screened dogs were adopted until the program was halted, after several of the newly adopted pit bulls killed cats.[19] The New York City Center for Animal Care and Control tried a similar approach in 2004, relabeling their pit bulls as "New Yorkies", but dropped the idea in the face of overwhelming public opposition.[20][21]


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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You cant group a dogs of different breeds together and claim they are one breed.  The simple facts are they are not the same breed. There is a dog that looks almost identical to the APBT Called the AMStaff. The APBT is bred from the fighting lines. The AMstaff is not.  The AMStaff is recognized by the AKC but not the APBT. They are only recognized by the UKC.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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American Pit Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
American Bull Dog
Bull Terrier

All Pit Bulls, I didn't think this was up for debate.  Who doesn't call them Pit Bulls?

We could throw in the St. Francis Terrier but that was nothing more than a failed rebranding effort.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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People that understand they are different breeds? 

That like saying a Himalayan and Persian cat are the same thing.  No they are 2 different breeds of furry cats.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

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Damn straight. I've backed up everything I said. I can't help it if you're a semi functional idiot.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

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You are an idiot.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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Yeah...I'm really concerned about people that think a Bull Terrier is the same thing as a APBT. Spuds Mackenzie would be outraged.


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## koshergrl (Sep 13, 2015)

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In some places it is. But that's not what you said. You said I said any dog running is chasing livestock.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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Ok, they are still all Pit Bulls.  often sharing the same lineage and traits.  This is not a new concept.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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They aren't the same thing, there is a huge size difference.  They are both Pit Bulls.


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## HappyJoy (Sep 13, 2015)

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Sweet heart, this is getting old.  Where you live it's not enough of a reason.  I don't remember if you ever demonstrated that is the case in another state.  Just do the dogs where you live a favor, don't shoot them simply for running. I'm kind of done with this.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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No they are not Pitbulls. This is exactly what I am talking about. These dogs were bred for different purposes. Pitbulls were bred to be dog aggressive, people friendly and ironically more stable as well as being able to fight to the death. American bulldogs were bred to be working dogs and home protectors on the american frontier. You can make an argument and say they are related but then we would have to include all dogs, wolves, foxes, etc.


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## Asclepias (Sep 13, 2015)

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Can you explain that? They arent the same thing but they are both Pitbulls?


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> I am assuming you meant "not ready for them"?  I would be for requiring some sort of certificate saying you were trained how to specifically raise a pit. I know some people that do great work with adult dogs but my instincts have always told me the best dog is one that you have known and raised since it was a young pup.  What is happening to pits is the same thing that happened with Dobies and German sheperds. Now Pits and Rotts are getting the vicious rap.  As more people get these dogs of course the rates of bites will go up. Not too long ago more people had poodles. Guess what? They lead in the number of bites as well.



*Banning pit bulls saves lives and protects the innocent*
May 24, 2013

Whether to ban pit bulls is a human health
	
 and safety issue that should be steered by health and safety officials. Public safety is not the profession of animal advocates. Thus, public policy coming from animal advocates concerning protecting humans from pit bulls is fundamentally flawed.

*So far this year, 13 of the 14 Americans who have been killed by dogs — 93 percent — were killed by pit bulls and pit mixes. *This is well above the average of 60 percent from 2005 to 2012.

As the pit bull population rises, more human fatalities ensue. During the last eight-year period that the Centers for Disease
	
 Control and Prevention studied fatal attacks by breed (1991 to 1998), pit bulls were estimated at 1 percent of the U.S. dog population. Pit bulls killed an average of three people per year.

The pit bull population has since grown to 4 percent. During the most recent eight-year period (2005-12), pit bulls killed an average of 19 people per year.

Miami-Dade County, which banned pit bulls in 1989, has avoided this loss of life. Other Florida
	
 counties — prohibited by state law from regulating dogs by breed — continue to experience deaths and disfigurements due to pit bulls. Since 1989, 18 Florida citizens have been killed by pit bulls — none within Miami-Dade.

*The threat from pit bulls results
	
 from the combination of the animals' inclination to attack without warning — an essential trait of fighting dogs — and the type of injuries that pit bulls typically inflict.

Most dogs bite and retreat, but pit bulls have a hold-and-shake bite style, and tenaciously refuse to stop an attack once begun.

Often a pit bull releases its grip only when dead — the trait dog fighters describe as being "dead game."*

Ban opponents often blame dismembering and fatal attacks on environmental factors, such as neglect. That, unfortunately, is the plight of too many dogs of all breeds, not just those who kill and maim.

Opponents also fail to distinguish dog-bite-injury severity. They argue that bans "do not reduce all dog bites." Of the 4.7 million Americans bitten by dogs each year, 9,500 require hospitalization for severe dog-bite injuries. The most extreme injury level, mauling injury, requires life-saving procedures at trauma centers.

The purpose of a pit bull ban is to eradicate mauling injuries and deaths inflicted by pit bulls, the breed involved in more than half of all severe and mauling attacks.

Since 1986, 18 appellate decisions have upheld lower-court findings that pit bulls are more dangerous than other dog breeds.

*Since 1988, four peer-reviewed studies published in leading medical journals
	
 have reviewed the severity of pit bull injury.* "Mortality, Mauling and Maiming by Vicious Dogs," published in the Annals of Surgery in 2011, concluded the following:

"Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital
	
 charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the U.S. mortality rates related to dog bites."

In April 2012, the highest court in Maryland declared pit bulls "inherently dangerous," altering common law pertaining to pit bull attacks. Pit bulls are prima facia dangerous in Maryland and held to a strict liability standard. In instances of a tenant's pit bull attacking, this liability extends to the landlord. The court cited the entire abstract of the 2011 Annals of Surgery study in its opinion.

Influential pit bull advocates have supported regulation in the past and are doing so now. On its Facebook page
	
, the Villalobos Rescue Center, founded by Tia Torres of Animal Planet's Pit Bulls & Parolees — expressed support for a proposal in Louisiana on the heels of a mutilating attack on a woman by her own pit bulls.

It is time for Florida pit bull advocacy groups to follow suit.

The Front Burner: Should pit bulls be banned?


----------



## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Based on hysterical reporting from idiot reporters who write stories long on sensationalism, and short on fact. Plus they rarely report non pit attacks.



There is a good reason "they rarely report non pit attacks"...

Most non pit bull attacks do not end up with someone being maimed, losing a limb or ending up in the morgue.


*Banning pit bulls saves lives and protects the innocent*

Most dogs bite and retreat, but pit bulls have a hold-and-shake bite style, and tenaciously refuse to stop an attack once begun.

Often a pit bull releases its grip only when dead — the trait dog fighters describe as being "dead game."

Ban opponents often blame dismembering and fatal attacks on environmental factors, such as neglect. That, unfortunately, is the plight of too many dogs of all breeds, not just those who kill and maim.

Opponents also fail to distinguish dog-bite-injury severity. They argue that bans "do not reduce all dog bites." Of the 4.7 million Americans bitten by dogs each year, 9,500 require hospitalization for severe dog-bite injuries. The most extreme injury level, mauling injury, requires life-saving procedures at trauma centers.

The purpose of a pit bull ban is to eradicate mauling injuries and deaths inflicted by pit bulls, the breed involved in more than half of all severe and mauling attacks.

Since 1986, 18 appellate decisions have upheld lower-court findings that pit bulls are more dangerous than other dog breeds.

Since 1988, four peer-reviewed studies published in leading medical journals
	
 have reviewed the severity of pit bull injury. "Mortality, Mauling and Maiming by Vicious Dogs," published in the Annals of Surgery in 2011, concluded the following:

"Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital
	
 charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the U.S. mortality rates related to dog bites."

The Front Burner: Should pit bulls be banned?


----------



## ninja007 (Sep 14, 2015)

Noomi said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > How many times are we going to see these stories of people being mauled by pit bulls? You always hear the same thing from pit bull enthusiasts, "it depends on how they are raised. My pit bull is as gentle as can be!". Its funny how the owners of the pit bulls that attack people always say "I cant believe it, my pit bulls played with my children." Well guess what, this kid was around these pit bulls before without incident, then suddenly one day these "peaceful" dogs killed a child and mauled his pregnant mother.
> ...




the vast majority of muslims wont cut your head off. Problem is WHEN they bite- they maim or kill, unlike 99% of other dogs.


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## ChrisL (Sep 14, 2015)

I don't think the government should be able to tell us what kind of pets it's okay for us to have, when it comes to dogs and cats.  No, banning a specific breed of dog because it MAY attack a person is stupid.  Any dog MAY attack a person.  All animals are unpredictable.  There was a time not too long ago, I believe, when Dobermans had the SAME reputation.


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 14, 2015)

If a person wants to get a pit bull, then that should be that person's decision.  If they get attacked later, then that is also their problem.  

When it comes to children, you shouldn't leave your small children alone with ANY dogs.  Even if a dog does not attack a child, accidents happen.  I remember reading a story about a child who was playing outside with the dog, and the dog was running around and got the child wrapped up in the leash and the child ended up being strangled to death by the dog's lease, and it was completely unintentional on the part of the dog.  

Don't leave your small children alone with any animals.  That is probably the best advice.


----------



## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> I don't think the government should be able to tell us what kind of pets it's okay for us to have, when it comes to dogs and cats.  No, banning a specific breed of dog because it MAY attack a person is stupid.  Any dog MAY attack a person.  All animals are unpredictable.  There was a time not too long ago, I believe, when Dobermans had the SAME reputation.



* 

“We compared data for patients attacked by
pit bull-type dogs to those attacked by other breeds and
found patients attacked by pit bulls had more severe injuries,
higher hospital charges and
a higher risk of death.”

John K. Bini and Stephen M. Cohn, San Antonio, TX.
Trauma surgeons, physicians.


3000 % -  Pit bulls and Rottweilers do three times more killing and maiming than all other dogs combined, meaning that their actuarial risk is approximately 3000% higher than that of the average dog. Source.


2,500 – More than 2,500 times higher risk of killing than Labradors. Source.

789% – Over the past decade, there was an increase of 789% in the number of life-threatening pit bull attacks (attacks on children were up 876%; attacks on adults were up 490%; fatalities were up 388%; and maimings were up 1269%.). Source.
*


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think the government should be able to tell us what kind of pets it's okay for us to have, when it comes to dogs and cats.  No, banning a specific breed of dog because it MAY attack a person is stupid.  Any dog MAY attack a person.  All animals are unpredictable.  There was a time not too long ago, I believe, when Dobermans had the SAME reputation.
> ...



Yes?  And?  The reason they cause more damage is because they have more pounds per square inch bite force than most other dogs.  So yes, if you are attacked by such a dog, then you are going to sustain more serious injuries.  Is that a reason to BAN the breed?  I mean, if they were such a HUGE problem, then MOST pit bulls would be attacking people, but it's a relatively small percentage on the whole that actually ever attack a person.  The fact of the matter is that most of these dogs never attack anyone.


----------



## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Yes?  And?  The reason they cause more damage is because they have more pounds per square inch bite force than most other dogs.  So yes, if you are attacked by such a dog, then you are going to sustain more serious injuries.  Is that a reason to BAN the breed?  I mean, if they were such a HUGE problem, then MOST pit bulls would be attacking people, but it's a relatively small percentage on the whole that actually ever attack a person.  The fact of the matter is that most of these dogs never attack anyone.



*14 – Every fourteen days, someone in the U.S. is killed by a pit bull.*

*5.4 – Every 5.4. days, a body part is severed and lost in a pit bull attack . Source.*

So as we've seen in the last 7 days, it is DEADLY for a 65 year old man to take a stroll, and a man walking to church should expect to be maimed...

And FALSE...

*Which Dog Breed Has the Strongest Jaw*


*Pit Bull*
The Pitbull has become a breed synonymous with strong jaws, biting and danger. While this dog does not have the highest bite force of the dogs National Geographic tested, it is one of the top four. The Pitbull bite was measured at *235 *pounds of pressure. It is the most highly recognized breed for jaw and bite strength.

*German Shepherd*
Although the German Shepherd was originally bred as a herding dog, it has been used as a guard and police dog with good reason. This is a powerful and intelligent breed. The German Shepherd's bite measured *238 *bite force, just slightly above the Pitbull.

*Rottweiler*
The Rottweiler, or Rottie as it is often called, has a huge head and large jaws. This breed bit with *328* pounds of pressure. The Rottweiler is considered the second most dangerous breed of dog; the Pitbull is number one.

*Doberman*
The Doberman is a highly energetic dog that can be very aggressive. The bite force is reputed to be *600* pounds of pressure; however that seems to be largely unsubstantiated.

*Mastiff*
Many breeders say that the Mastiff has the strongest jaw. Reportedly, the Mastiff has a bite force of *552* pounds. If true, this would make it stronger than any other domesticated dog on record.


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Yes?  And?  The reason they cause more damage is because they have more pounds per square inch bite force than most other dogs.  So yes, if you are attacked by such a dog, then you are going to sustain more serious injuries.  Is that a reason to BAN the breed?  I mean, if they were such a HUGE problem, then MOST pit bulls would be attacking people, but it's a relatively small percentage on the whole that actually ever attack a person.  The fact of the matter is that most of these dogs never attack anyone.
> ...



Did you think I wouldn't click on your link?   

"Fortunately, fatal dog attacks are rare, but there seems to be a distinct relationship between the severity and lethality of an attack and the breed responsible," they wrote in an article published in the April issue of the medical journal Annals of Surgery. "These breeds should be regulated in the same way in which other dangerous species, such as leopards, are regulated."

Advocates, dog owners and some experts disagree. They argue passionately against singling out pit bulls, saying the problem is one of irresponsible owners, not an irredeemable breed. People often confuse pit bulls - a generic term for various bull terrier breeds and mixes - with other kinds of dogs, making statistics suspect, they say.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And . .  .

*Expert: Study flawed*
The study began two years ago when a series of attacks in the area led to renewed calls for regulating pit bulls. Lawmakers in Austin considered bills permitting local bans on specific breeds, which now are forbidden under state law. None passed.

The study's authors argue that pit bulls deserve the special attention they get. Pit bulls, originally bred as fighting dogs, have different attack patterns than other breeds, they say - attacking indiscriminately, without warning and, often, with little interest in stopping.

"There are going to be outspoken opponents of breed legislation, who say: 'My pit bulls lie with my baby and play with my rabbit.' And that's fine," said Dr. John Bini, now chief of surgery at Wilford Hall Medical Center, who led the study while serving a fellowship at University Hospital. "I just think we're seeing something here, and I think it does warrant a discussion as to whether this is a risk that a community wants to take."


----------



## ChrisL (Sep 14, 2015)

Another thing that you can't ignore is that this particular breed is going to be more vulnerable to mistreatment and abuse.  This is the type of dog that may be attractive to a certain type of person who wants to use that dog to his/her own advantage.  Some might train them to defend property, some might train them to actually BE attack dogs.  This is the type of dog that would be attractive to people who are doing "illegal" activities, like gang members.  Of course, they want the toughest "baddest" dog on the block.


----------



## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > ChrisL said:
> ...



SOOO...you clicked on the link and OMITTED what you didn't want to hear...

SAN ANTONIO — Weary of mending the mauled victims of dog attacks, doctors and nurses looked back at 15 years of serious bite injuries treated at a San Antonio hospital and produced a study likely to offer new ammunition for those looking to ban or regulate pit bulls.

University Hospital found that attacks by pit bulls were more likely to kill people than those by other breeds. In fact, all three deaths seen at the hospital during the period - two children and a 90-year-old man - were from pit bull attacks, records showed. A fourth fatality, a 64-year-old Von Ormy man killed by a pit bull, wasn't seen by the hospital, death records show.

In addition, they found that pit bulls caused more serious injuries - injuries more likely to put their victims in the hospital. Once admitted, those victims had higher medical costs.

Or the actual study...

http://www.terrierman.com/mortality-mauling-vicious-dogs.pdf
TABLE 3.
*Characteristics of Pit Bulls*
*Fatal Pit Bull Attacks Nationally*


Pit bulls attack indiscriminately
Responsible for 65% of all fatal attacks in 2008
6 of 7 fatal dog bites in Texas in 2007 were inflicted by pit bulls
94% of attacks on children by pit bulls were unprovoked
81% of attacks that occurred off the owner’s property involved pit bulls
One person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days
One body part is severed and lost every 5.4 days as a result of pit bull attacks
2 persons are injured by pit bulls every day
1.5 pit bulls are shot to death every day


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Another thing that you can't ignore is that this particular breed is going to be more vulnerable to mistreatment and abuse.  This is the type of dog that may be attractive to a certain type of person who wants to use that dog to his/her own advantage.  Some might train them to defend property, some might train them to actually BE attack dogs.  This is the type of dog that would be attractive to people who are doing "illegal" activities, like gang members.  Of course, they want the toughest "baddest" dog on the block.



Oh, so we must coddle and cater to criminals?


----------



## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> American Pit Bull Terrier
> American Staffordshire Terrier
> Staffordshire Bull Terrier
> American Bull Dog
> ...


You're a prolific retard but a retard none the less. I have a Amstaff, she isn't a Pitbull to anyone except people who don't know what they are talking about. No vet has called her such. Run your keyboard less and learn more. It may be hard for you but the longest journey begins with a single step.


----------



## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> SOOO...you clicked on the link and OMITTED what you didn't want to hear...
> 
> SAN ANTONIO — Weary of mending the mauled victims of dog attacks, doctors and nurses looked back at 15 years of serious bite injuries treated at a San Antonio hospital and produced a study likely to offer new ammunition for those looking to ban or regulate pit bulls.
> 
> University Hospital found that attacks by pit bulls were more likely to kill people than those by other breeds. In fact, all three deaths seen at the hospital during the period - two children and a 90-year-old man - were from pit bull attacks, records showed. A fourth fatality, a 64-year-old Von Ormy man killed by a pit bull, wasn't seen by the hospital, death records show.


4 deaths in 15 years in the size of San Antonio? Plus there's no context. Were these crackhead dogs that got loose? If Pits are banned and negligent owners go for another strong breed will the outcome be different?


----------



## pwjohn (Sep 14, 2015)

Near as I can tell, American bull dogs are far more dangerous than pit bulls, and that's a fact. 
Part of the problem with pitbulls though is their large numbers, and it's not always the fighting dog that's the problem. Quite a few of them were quite simply raised all wrong by uncaring pet owners who failed to properly socialize their pet. Instead the poor dog is chained to a stake in the backyard right up until they turn on the owner, and that's when the owner turns it lose on the neighborhood every  bit as dangerous as the fighting dog...

And then you have the pitbulls that were raised right, and still just as troubled as the pitbull that was chained to a stake all its life..Those are the ones you really need to watch out for because the owners will often times ignore all the warning signs right up until they are forced to  utter  the words we all too often   hear on the evening  news."The dog must have snapped because he was a perfect little angel right up until he ripped that poor kids head off."


----------



## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > SOOO...you clicked on the link and OMITTED what you didn't want to hear...
> ...



CONTEXT...

U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org


----------



## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


There's just a lazylink. No context. Fail.


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

HappyJoy said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > HappyJoy said:
> ...


That made zero sense and as per usual has nothing to do with anything. Certainly it has nothing to do with anything I said.


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Based on hysterical reporting from idiot reporters who write stories long on sensationalism, and short on fact. Plus they rarely report non pit attacks.
> ...


Bullshit. All this conjecture is funny and comes down to one thing...you are scared of dogs. That's fine...don't have pits and don't stroll around the inner city and your chance if being attacked by Americas dog is exactly zero. Or better yet...move to Russia, where the likelihood if being killed by a pit remains zero, but the chance that you'll be torn apart by a pack frolicking is about 1 in 3.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...


All this spew is just garbage. Haters hate...they hate people and apparently they hate dogs as well. They're cowardly and nuts.


----------



## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

*CONTEXT...*

*2015 dog bite fatalities ::*
It often takes several weeks to identify fatal dog attack parameters.1 This is why recent dog bite fatalities may not appear on this page. In the interim, please visit the DogsBite.org blog.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Oh look, propaganda.


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Someone needs to tell the black community to stop leaving their babies alone with dogs, btw.


----------



## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> *CONTEXT...*
> 
> *2015 dog bite fatalities ::*
> It often takes several weeks to identify fatal dog attack parameters.1 This is why recent dog bite fatalities may not appear on this page. In the interim, please visit the DogsBite.org blog.


That's not what I meant. How were the dogs trained/treated? Running lose? Raised from puppies or picked up as a rescue. Not all of those were Pits and as has been pointed out, people identify many breeds as Pits. The ones I meet are socialized. Some dogs never meet anyone, let alone other dogs. 

So I will believe me and people like Cesar Milan over the hype. No one should suffer dog attacks but the dogs are not the root of the problem. I would favor heavy penalties against owners of dogs that attack.


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

You will notice the soft sources for breed types. They don't use the CDC breed stats because the CDC has a big fat disclaimer that says they're meaningless for a variety of reasons...but primarily because they get the info from articles. They state that there can be bias, plus not all attacks are reported, and pit bull is such a broad term it is rendered meaningless.


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > *CONTEXT...*
> ...


These losers go around all day looking for someone or something to hate, restrain and kill.


----------



## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Bullshit. All this conjecture is funny and comes down to one thing...you are scared of dogs. That's fine...don't have pits and don't stroll around the inner city and your chance if being attacked by Americas dog is exactly zero. Or better yet...move to Russia, where the likelihood if being killed by a pit remains zero, but the chance that you'll be torn apart by a pack frolicking is about 1 in 3.



I'm scared of dog?...your argument skills are childish...

I have had dogs for 60 years...I have never been without at least one dog since I was 5 years old...

I had 3 dogs a few years ago...Abbey; a female chocolate lab, Inuk; an un-neutered male Alaskan Malamute and Buddy; a neutered pit bull mix.

The lab was put down due to old age (16 yrs old)
The Malamute was put down due to cancer (10 yrs old)
The pit bull mix was put down because it tried to kill me in my own living room (3 yrs old)

Buddy (pit) was one of the sweetest dogs I ever owned. We owned him since he was 3 months old. He loved to climb up on your chest and snuggle. If you got down on your hands and knees to get something out of the bottom cupboard, he would lick your face.

On day, my wife had dusted in the dining room and placed Buddy's leash on the floor. She forgot to put it back on the hutch.

I noticed it and bent down to pick it up...Buddy immediately came at me and started growling. I left the leash on the floor, showed Buddy a stop sign hand signal. Calmly told Buddy "It's OK Buddy"...

When I walked into the living room, Buddy charged me...he leaped up an latched on to my right arm...I swung him around as he ripped open my arm...he flew off, got up and charged me again. This time he latched on to my left hand, ripping that open. I yelled for my son to help me. Buddy charged me again, this time he sunk his teeth into my right leg (I was wearing shorts)...he opened a huge gaping wound in my calf, then bit into the front of my leg exposing my femur...

My son arrived and tried to pull him off me...I was being mauled, my son was behind me and grabbed Buddy's back legs, I finally grabbed Buddy around the neck, put him in a head lock, held on for dear life and fell on Buddy. My son pulled Buddy out from behind. I got up, made it to the kitchen and by then my wife and daughter were there. My wife called 911.

Thank God I was not home alone..I would have been one of the CONTEXT I posted.

I know you love your pit bull. I PRAY nothing like this ever happens to you. But if God forbid your pit mauls one of your kids, you will never forgive yourself...


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> ChrisL said:
> 
> 
> > Yes?  And?  The reason they cause more damage is because they have more pounds per square inch bite force than most other dogs.  So yes, if you are attacked by such a dog, then you are going to sustain more serious injuries.  Is that a reason to BAN the breed?  I mean, if they were such a HUGE problem, then MOST pit bulls would be attacking people, but it's a relatively small percentage on the whole that actually ever attack a person.  The fact of the matter is that most of these dogs never attack anyone.
> ...


This is pretty much hyperbole. There is no way you can tell what the bite force is unless you know for a fact the dog is biting its hardest.  All you can really do is generalize.  I've had multiple Rotties on my arm in protection training and IMO their bite was not as hard as an AB or an APBT.


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Bullshit. All this conjecture is funny and comes down to one thing...you are scared of dogs. That's fine...don't have pits and don't stroll around the inner city and your chance if being attacked by Americas dog is exactly zero. Or better yet...move to Russia, where the likelihood if being killed by a pit remains zero, but the chance that you'll be torn apart by a pack frolicking is about 1 in 3.
> ...


This was a pitbull mix and you assumed the Pit in him took over in that instance?


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 14, 2015)

I think people that like to own dogs like:

Pitbulls
Rotweilers
Dobermans etc.

Like to live on the edge. 

With all the other breeds of dog out there, there is no reason to choose one (especially if you have kids) that has more of a potential to bite, hurt, kill than another.


----------



## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> This was a pitbull mix and you assumed the Pit in him took over in that instance?



The other "mix" was Labrador Retriever...so YES...ANYONE with a human brain would assume the pit in him was what made Buddy attack me in a CLASSIC PIT BULL attack...


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> Another thing that you can't ignore is that this particular breed is going to be more vulnerable to mistreatment and abuse.  This is the type of dog that may be attractive to a certain type of person who wants to use that dog to his/her own advantage.  Some might train them to defend property, some might train them to actually BE attack dogs.  This is the type of dog that would be attractive to people who are doing "illegal" activities, like gang members.  Of course, they want the toughest "baddest" dog on the block.



I have all my Pits trained to attack and let go instantly on command.  This is actually better because then you have control over them and they are socialized to not fear people. The program I follow is constant socialization from an early age, obedience training, and finally protection training.  Any dog showing aggression towards kids is euthanized.


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


Only a dummy would assume that. Labs bite people too.  What is a classic Pitbull attack? This should be interesting. So he growled at you first and you consider that a classic Pitbull attack?


----------



## pillars (Sep 14, 2015)

Pit Bull is not a breed.  The bully dogs that are often classified as pitbulls are American Staffordshire terriers, Staffordshire bull terriers, Bull terriers, American Pit Bull Terrier, American Bulldogs, and mixed breed dogs that are said to resemble these dog breeds.  Because "pit bull" encompasses such a large number of dog breeds and mixed breed combinations, there are real problems with the classification of dogs in this study.  Based upon the way that "pit bulls" are identified, more than 5 million dogs in the U.S. would fit this designation, representing 30-40% of all dogs in the U.S.

Further, the data is unreliable.  Medically attended dog bites | Canine Research Council


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bonzi said:


> I think people that like to own dogs like:
> 
> Pitbulls
> Rotweilers
> ...


There are plenty of reasons to chose these types of dogs. I like Pits for example. Why? Because they reflect what I admire. They are loving dogs that are capable of discerning friend or foe. I could tell you some great stories about their ability to target a foe and never attack an innocent person standing right next to that foe. They are excellent guard dogs. Highly intelligent, High pain tolerance which comes in handy around little kids poking them in the eye or pulling on their ears. Finally in my estimation they will kill themselves doing whatever it is they think you want them to do.


----------



## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Bullshit. All this conjecture is funny and comes down to one thing...you are scared of dogs. That's fine...don't have pits and don't stroll around the inner city and your chance if being attacked by Americas dog is exactly zero. Or better yet...move to Russia, where the likelihood if being killed by a pit remains zero, but the chance that you'll be torn apart by a pack frolicking is about 1 in 3.
> ...


He won't maul any of my kids. Of course, I don't leave him alone with little kids. I don't know why your dog attacked you. I do know it wasn't because he might have had a smidge of PitBull in him.


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

pillars said:


> Pit Bull is not a breed.  The bully dogs that are often classified as pitbulls are American Staffordshire terriers, Staffordshire bull terriers, Bull terriers, American Pit Bull Terrier, American Bulldogs, and mixed breed dogs that are said to resemble pits.  Because "pit bull" encompasses such a large number of dog breeds and mixed breed combinations, there are real problems with the classification of dogs in this study.  Based upon the way that "pit bulls" are identified, more than 5 million dogs in the U.S. would fit this designation, representing 30-40% of all dogs in the U.S.
> 
> Further, the data is unreliable.  Medically attended dog bites | Canine Research Council


The thing is that people say Pitbull and everyone automatically targets the APBT.


----------



## pillars (Sep 14, 2015)

I own a pit.  The most loyal, calm and loving dog...good with our cats.  She is patient with our hound mix, who is a much larger dog.  He is not good with the cats, who despise him.


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


I dont know the exact reason but if the dog warned him prior to attacking there was obviously some "leader of the pack" issues BigFern left unresolved or never noticed.


----------



## Bonzi (Sep 14, 2015)

I won't go over anyone's house unless they are securely put away.
and, if I have to listen to them bark the entire time, I'm not interested in being there either.


----------



## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bonzi said:


> I won't go over anyone's house unless they are securely put away.
> and, if I have to listen to them bark the entire time, I'm not interested in being there either.


If they are barking the entire time you are smart for leaving. The owner obviously doesnt know what they are doing. My dogs rarely if ever bark. If for some reason a visitor gives them a bad vibe I can tell by their stance. I just tell them its ok and they stop.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Only a dummy would assume that. Labs bite people too.  What is a classic Pitbull attack? This should be interesting. So he growled at you first and you consider that a classic Pitbull attack?



Are you a retard?


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Only a dummy would assume that. Labs bite people too.  What is a classic Pitbull attack? This should be interesting. So he growled at you first and you consider that a classic Pitbull attack?
> ...


No.

Dont deflect. Did the question throw you for a loop?


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## pillars (Sep 14, 2015)

Bonzi said:


> I won't go over anyone's house unless they are securely put away.
> and, if I have to listen to them bark the entire time, I'm not interested in being there either.


 
Happy to know that my dogs are Bonzi-repellent.  If I had to choose between most humans and a dog, the choice would be an easy one.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
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Leader of the pack?...funny how you right wing turds quote an illegal immigrant..


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


I'm a liberal.  So this dog growled at you before attacking you?


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## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Leader of the pack?...funny how you right wing turds quote an illegal immigrant..


Cesar says "pack leader". Leader of the pack is what anyone that knows anything about dogs knows. Obviously, you don't. You need a Yorkie or something. A powerful breed will smell pussy and walk all over you.


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## pillars (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > I won't go over anyone's house unless they are securely put away.
> ...


 
How did you train your dogs not to bark?  My pit is pretty quiet except when there are loud noises (she was shot before we got her).  Loud noises scare her, so we try to limit them if possible, and we keep her away from places where we know there will be loud noises.  My hound dog, though, is a barker.  I think it may have something to do with the breed, though. He is a black mouth cur shepherd mix.  I've been told they are very vocal dogs.

If we tell him it is okay, he shuts up, but he barks at stuff outside the house...there are lots of dogs in our neighborhood.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

pillars said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
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> > Bonzi said:
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I didnt actually train them not to bark. Every Pit I have ever had was just a quiet dog. I think a Pit that barks all the time is bored or has some genetic issues. Its understandable that loud noises set yours off though.  Some clown actually shot him?

Yeah some hounds are notorious barkers. Good thing he listens to you.


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## pillars (Sep 14, 2015)

Yeah, some asshole shot her and then the shelter got her and patched her up.  Superficial wounds, but she still has the scars.

People are assholes.  She is scared of guns, anything that looks like a gun, and any kind of loud noise, like a banging pot.  She is also scared of other dogs, because another dog attacked her in the neighborhood a few years ago.  She can be kind of aggressive with other dogs, as a result, so we always keep her on a sturdy leash.  She has never been aggressive with us, or with any of the animals in our house.  She seems to understand the difference between our family and other dogs.

In my experience, pits are very quiet dogs, compared to say beagles or something.  And they are very human.  Much more human than other dog breeds.  Very intelligent dogs, good companion dogs.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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The threat from pit bulls results
	
 from the combination of the animals' inclination to attack without warning — an essential trait of fighting dogs — and the type of injuries that pit bulls typically inflict.

Most dogs bite and retreat, but pit bulls have a hold-and-shake bite style, and tenaciously refuse to stop an attack once begun.

Often a pit bull releases its grip only when dead — the trait dog fighters describe as being "dead game."

Ban opponents often blame dismembering and fatal attacks on environmental factors, such as neglect. That, unfortunately, is the plight of too many dogs of all breeds, not just those who kill and maim.

Opponents also fail to distinguish dog-bite-injury severity. They argue that bans "do not reduce all dog bites." Of the 4.7 million Americans bitten by dogs each year, 9,500 require hospitalization for severe dog-bite injuries. The most extreme injury level, mauling injury, requires life-saving procedures at trauma centers.

The purpose of a pit bull ban is to eradicate mauling injuries and deaths inflicted by pit bulls, the breed involved in more than half of all severe and mauling attacks.

Since 1986, 18 appellate decisions have upheld lower-court findings that pit bulls are more dangerous than other dog breeds.

Since 1988, four peer-reviewed studies published in leading medical journals
	
 have reviewed the severity of pit bull injury. "Mortality, Mauling and Maiming by Vicious Dogs," published in the Annals of Surgery in 2011, concluded the following:

"Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital
	
 charges, and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs. Strict regulation of pit bulls may substantially reduce the U.S. mortality rates related to dog bites."
link




*Q: Why do I always read about pit bulls in the news?*
When a pit bull attacks, the injury inflicted may be catastrophic. First responders, such as police officers and firefighters, understand this as do members of the media, who are quick to report these attacks. Ongoing social tension also keeps pit bulls in the news. The pit bull problem is now over 30-years old.9 In this time, most lawmakers have been "too afraid" to take breed-specific action to correct the problem. Due to this failure, horrific maulings continue to make headlines.

About half of all media reports regarding pit bulls involve police officers shooting dangerous pit bulls in the line of duty.10 Since the late 1970's pit bulls have been used extensively in criminal operations for drug dealers, gang members and other violent offenders. The pit bull terrier is the breed of choice for criminals. This choice is directly linked to the pit bull's selectively bred traits of robust jaw strength, a deadly bite style, tenacity (gameness) and a high tolerance to pain.11

*Q: Why do people say that pit bulls "don't let go?"*
Through selective breeding, pit bulls have developed enormous jaw strength, as well as a ruinous "hold and shake" bite style, designed to inflict the maximum damage possible on their victims. This bite trait delivered winning results in the fighting pit. When the Colorado Supreme Court upheld the Denver pit bull ban in 2005, the high court set aside characteristics that pit bulls displayed when they attack that differ from all other dog breeds. One of these characteristics was their lethal bite:

"[pit bulls] inflict more serious wounds than other breeds. They tend to attack the deep muscles, to hold on, to shake, and to cause ripping of tissues. Pit bull attacks were compared to shark attacks."12
Leading pit bull education websites, such as Pit Bull Rescue Central, encourage pit bull owners to be responsible and to always carry a "break stick" -- a tool used to pry open a pit bull's jaws -- in case their dog "accidentally" gets into a fight. These same websites also warn that using a break stick on any other dog breed may cause serious injury to the person.13 This is true because no other dog breed possesses the pit bull's tenacity combined with a "hold and shake" bite style.

One of the most powerful examples of a pit bull "not letting go" occurred in an Ohio courtroom. During the _Toledo v. Tellings_ trial (Tellings was convicted of violating the City of Toledo's pit bull ordinance), Lucas County Dog Warden Tom Skeldon showed a videotape of a tranquilized pit bull hanging from a steel cable. The dog is essentially unconscious and still does not release its grip. At the time of the taping, the pit bull was being housed at the Lucas County Animal Shelter.14

*Q: Do pit bulls bite more than other dogs?*
Depending upon the community in which you live and the ratio of pit bulls within it, yes and no. But whether a pit bull bites more or less than another dog breed is not the point. The issue is the acute damage a pit bull inflicts when it does choose to bite. The pit bull's "hold and shake" bite style causes severe bone and muscle damage, often inflicting permanent and disfiguring injuries. Moreover, once a pit bull starts an attack, firearm intervention may be the only way to stop it.

When analyzing dog bite statistics, it is important to understand what constitutes a bite. A single bite -- recorded and used in dog bite statistics -- is a bite that "breaks the skin." One bite by a poodle that leaves two puncture wounds is recorded the same way as a pit bull mauling, which can constitute hundreds of puncture wounds and extensive soft tissue loss. Despite the "quagmire" of dog bite statistics, pit bulls are leading bite counts across U.S. cities and counties.15
link


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

pillars said:


> Yeah, some asshole shot her and then the shelter got her and patched her up.  Superficial wounds, but she still has the scars.
> 
> People are assholes.  She is scared of guns, anything that looks like a gun, and any kind of loud noise, like a banging pot.  She is also scared of other dogs, because another dog attacked her in the neighborhood a few years ago.  She can be kind of aggressive with other dogs, as a result, so we always keep her on a sturdy leash.  She has never been aggressive with us, or with any of the animals in our house.  She seems to understand the difference between our family and other dogs.
> 
> In my experience, pits are very quiet dogs, compared to say beagles or something.  And they are very human.  Much more human than other dog breeds.  Very intelligent dogs, good companion dogs.


How old is she?  Thats not good she is afraid of anything that looks like a gun.  Are you good with her body language?


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
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Your own link says Pits attack without warning. Your dog gave you a warning. Not too classic was it?


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

*Director of the Division of Craniofacial and Pediatric Plastic Surgery at Cincinnati Children's Talks 'Pit Bulls'*
* Dr. David A. Billmire, MD: "There is no need for Pit Bulls"*

Doctor Speaks Out
Cincinnati, OH - After 6-year old Zainabou Drame suffered "unimaginable" injuries inflicted by two pit bulls last month, leaving some veteran police officers struggling to speak, Dr. David Billmire, MD, penned an editorial not many other doctors could. For 30-years Dr. Billmire has witnessed, examined and reconstructed the faces and body parts of children coming into Cincinnati Children's Hospital and Shriners Hospital for Children after devastating and life-threatening pit bull maulings.









When I started my career, the most common dog-bite injuries were from German shepherds and occasionally retrievers. These injuries were almost always provoked, such as food-related or stepping on the dog, and in almost every instance, the dog reacted with a single snap and release – essentially a warning shot. There were no pack attacks.





Starting about 25 years ago, my colleagues and I started to see disturbingly different types of injuries. Instead of a warning bite, we saw wounds where the flesh was torn from the victim. There were multiple bite wounds covering many different anatomical sites. The attacks were generally unprovoked, persistent and often involved more than one dog. In every instance the dog involved was a pit bull or a pit bull mix. - Dr. Billmire The pit bull problem erupted in the late 1970s and was in full swing by 1987, when Dr. Billmire began seeing these injuries. It was in 1987 that Ohio adopted a state pit bull law; dismantled by out-of-state animal lobbying groups in 2012. Cincinnati also repealed its longstanding pit bull ban in 2012. Zainabou now lies at Cincinnati Children's Hospital after one pit bull "grabbed her face and literally tore it off," according to her grandfather, and the other one "pulled her mouth off." 

Dr. Billmire states that he recently gave a talk summarizing his 30-years of practice. One part of it, he noted, was titled, "Why I Hate Pit Bulls." Dr. Billmire states that he "watched a child bleed to death one night in our operating room because a pit bull had torn his throat out." And that he has had to "rebuild the skull of a child who had his ears and entire scalp torn off." Currently, Dr. Billmire is "reconstructing the face of a child, half of whose face has been torn off down to the bone." 





Based on my extensive experience, I believe that the risk posed by pit bulls is equivalent to placing a loaded gun with the safety off on the coffee table. In my opinion, these dogs should be banned. I know this is an unpopular stand in some circles, but how many mauled children do we have to see before we realize the folly of allowing these dogs to exist? ... There are plenty of breeds available that peacefully coexist with human society. There is no need for pit bulls. - Dr. Billmire There are over 175 recognized breeds by the AKC alone. We know why the drug trafficking owner of the two pit bulls that nearly killed Zainabou chose that breed, along with many other deviant types who flock toward pit bulls. We know why dogfighters choose pit bulls too. For the rest of the owners of these dogs, such as rescue "angels" and breed-enthusiasts, we only know one thing: They choose a dog breed that kills more human beings than all other dog breeds combined.

Some of these owners pay with their own lives as well, not to mention their children's lives.

*Safety Before Pit Bulldogs*

Dr. Billmire is not alone in his assessment. The Safety Before Pit Bulldogs blog maintains a collection of quotes by medical professional experts who treat victims of pit bulls. The list is long readers. Some point to medical studies and others point to news articles and editorials like Dr. Billmire's letter. We thank all of them so much for their continued research and for those who come forward in the wake of a horrifying attack to combat the pit bull propaganda machine response.
link


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Your own link says Pits attack without warning. Your dog gave you a warning. Not too classic was it?



Stick the snarky stuff up your ignorant cretin ass...

Buddy was not "provoked"...when I walked away from him he was sitting (by my command)...


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Your own link says Pits attack without warning. Your dog gave you a warning. Not too classic was it?
> ...


Did I say you provoked him?  Your deflections could use some work. Obviously you arent good at them.

Your dog growled at you. You should have addressed that immediately instead of bending down to pick up the leash and putting  yourself at essentially his level.  The fact that the dog growled at you in the first place means you didnt notice the many warning signs that appeared long before this incident.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Leader of the pack?...funny how you right wing turds quote an illegal immigrant..
> ...



Yea, it's MY fault...you folks are the lowest life form on this planet...


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Your dog growled at you. You should have addressed that immediately instead of bending down to pick up the leash and putting  yourself at essentially his level.  The fact that the dog growled at you in the first place means you didnt notice the many warning signs that appeared long before this incident.



Listen Sherlock...I was there. When Buddy came at me, I did "address it immediately"...I stood up, turned toward Buddy and I gave Buddy a stop sign hand signal and calmly said "it's OK Buddy"...he was sitting and not growling when I walked away.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


You are the adult human. Of course its your fault. You missed some warning signs along the way.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Your dog growled at you. You should have addressed that immediately instead of bending down to pick up the leash and putting  yourself at essentially his level.  The fact that the dog growled at you in the first place means you didnt notice the many warning signs that appeared long before this incident.
> ...


Why did you walk away instead of addressing the issue?  You should have made him lay down. Thats the ultimate position of submissiveness.  What would the leader of a wolf pack do to another wolf that challenged him?


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
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What would you have done Cesar Millan? Try to commit suicide again?


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
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I just told you what I would have done. However, you messed up long ago so it doesnt really matter what I would have done. It would have never gotten to this situation.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
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Don't get butthurt. It's a fact of life, the animal kingdom is what it is. The dominate force rules, you or your spouse have to be the dominant force in the house.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
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Propaganda.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Why did you walk away instead of addressing the issue?  You should have made him lay down. Thats the ultimate position of submissiveness.  What would the leader of a wolf pack do to another wolf that challenged him?



I can agree using 20/20 hindsight. I should have made him lie down. Buddy never acted like that before. I thought he was calm and that it was over...I paid a high price...physically scared for life including an infection that required a hospital stay. And Buddy paid the ultimate price...and myself and my family was very sad to lose Buddy.

But you are admitting something about the breed when you use a wolf pack example.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Don't get butthurt. It's a fact of life, the animal kingdom is what it is. The dominate force rules, you or your spouse have to be the dominant force in the house.



Thank you for a perfect admission of the right wing mind's worldview...it is why ALL forms of totalitarianism, and authoritarianism come from the right and not the left...


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Why did you walk away instead of addressing the issue?  You should have made him lay down. Thats the ultimate position of submissiveness.  What would the leader of a wolf pack do to another wolf that challenged him?
> ...


Its too bad you were physically scarred. Its too bad you didnt notice the unresolved issues of dominance before this incident occurred. You mentioned I was admitting something about the breed when I used a wolf pack example. You do realize all dogs are descended from wolves right?  If I am not mistaken the dog wasnt a specific breed but a mix right?


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Don't get butthurt. It's a fact of life, the animal kingdom is what it is. The dominate force rules, you or your spouse have to be the dominant force in the house.
> ...


Dogs are not humans no matter how human they appear at times. Their instincts are those of wolves. Its a pack mentality and your dog *has to be* the lowest ranking member of that pack. Your children should be able to command your dog to lay down or whatever with no issues.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Propaganda.



Tell that to the families...human lives were violently ended and you call that "propaganda"?

*Devastated father speaks about deadly pit bull attack*
*Toddler killed by babysitter's dogs*

DARIEN, Wis. —A devastated father says he will not be silent after hearing about another pit bull attacking a child.
Jeff Borchardt lost is son, Dax, nearly three months ago, and he told 12 News that he and his wife decided to leave their Darien home because the memories of the 14-month-old who was mauled to death by two pit bulls in March was overwhelming.

"We couldn't be here anymore. We had to come home to a house with marks on the walls -- this empty house," Borchardt said.

In his first interview about the death of his son, Borchardt told 12 News he wants to speak out about what he feels is a dangerous breed.

"Believing the myth, it's not the breed it's all how you raise them, is what left us without a son," said Borchardt, who was motivated to speak out after a pit bull attack last week in Caledonia left a toddler with serious injuries to his face. "Someone on TV is going to see this and say, 'You know what, that looks like little Johnny, or little Timmy, or whoever,' because this could easily be your son or daughter, too."

Borchardt said before his son's death, he used to think a dog's behavior was determined by the way it was raised. However, the two pit bulls owned by a woman who was babysitting Dax were raised by the couple since they were puppies and had not been abused.

Borchardt said the dogs didn't have a history of aggressive behavior, and he would never have left him with the woman if they had. He said something made the dogs snap on that day in March.

"They had one goal in mind, and that was to murder my baby," said Borchardt, who will never forget how his son looked after the attack. "There were unimaginable bruises and bites all over his legs, his arms and his body -- his head."

Borchardt said his motivation in life is telling Dax's story as many times as people will listen, because if one life is saved, then going through the pain is worth it.

"Let Dax save lives," he said. "I know he's saved lives already. I don't think it's enough."

Borchardt said the babysitter was holding Dax when the dogs attacked, and she did everything possible, including lying on top of the child to try and save him. No criminal charges were filed.

Only on WISN 12 News: Devastated father speaks about deadly pit bull attack


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## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Don't get butthurt. It's a fact of life, the animal kingdom is what it is. The dominate force rules, you or your spouse have to be the dominant force in the house.
> ...


No, you're full of shit. I used to stop by a dog forum but too many were like you and considered dominance evil, bullying and probably right wing. That explains very clearly WHY you had problems with that poor dog. He was a victim of his environment, the one YOU created.

Nature does not mold itself to our approval. It exists as it always has. We either recognize it and work with reality or we pretend otherwise and think our ideology will shape it. It won't.

The issues I see at the dog park are from those who let the dog become dominant. The dog is the leader, they are pack animals and that's what pack animals do. It's how they survive, the strongest passing his genes along.

Forget the Yorkie, he'll rule you too. Get a cat.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Borchardt said before his son's death, he used to think a dog's behavior was determined by the way it was raised. However, the two pit bulls owned by a woman who was babysitting Dax were raised by the couple since they were puppies and had not been abused.


A 14 month old baby was left with two dogs owned by the babysitter but were raised by the couple? It makes no sense.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Its too bad you were physically scarred. Its too bad you didnt notice the unresolved issues of dominance before this incident occurred. You mentioned I was admitting something about the breed when I used a wolf pack example. You do realize all dogs are descended from wolves right?  If I am not mistaken the dog wasnt a specific breed but a mix right?



I do realize that dogs are not human, and I understand the pack mentality. What you don't care to acknowledge is that pit bulls don't "bite"...they attack unlike other breeds.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Its too bad you were physically scarred. Its too bad you didnt notice the unresolved issues of dominance before this incident occurred. You mentioned I was admitting something about the breed when I used a wolf pack example. You do realize all dogs are descended from wolves right?  If I am not mistaken the dog wasnt a specific breed but a mix right?
> ...


Yes Pits do simply bite. All dogs attack.  The difference is that a Pit is bred to inflict severe damage when attacking.  People that own these dogs should be more responsible for that very reason.  You keep trying to say your mixed dog transformed into a purebred Pit and attacked. It doesnt work like that.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Propaganda.
> ...


Is this a true story?  I dont get how the dogs were owned by the babysitter but raised by the couple?


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## featherlite (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
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( Leaving out the druggie/dog fighting types)
Ive always thought Pitbull owners were some of the better dog owners. We had a couple who would bring in various rescue/fighting dogs... they lived kind of far out on purpose. Loved those people.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Forget the Yorkie, he'll rule you too. Get a cat.



It's ironic you accused me of being a typical "lib" and compared it to the debate on guns.

Yet it is fear infested right wing turds like you who cling to dangerous dogs just like you cling to your guns because in your tiny mind they are a form of a weapon to save you from all the monsters your warped little mind creates...

And the ultimate irony is you stand WITH "Yorkie" libs...

*Bring breeders of high-risk dogs to heel*
On January 5, the first regular business day of 2004, New York City Center for Animal Care and Control director Ed Boks and actress-turned-animal advocate Bernadette Peters tried to make pit bull terriers more adoptable by announcing that henceforth they would be offered for adoption as “New Yorkies.”
The scheme lasted less than three days.

Animal shelter experts around the U.S., called for comment, remembered the 1996 attempt by the San Francisco SPCA to re-invent pit bulls by calling them “St. Francis terriers.”

About 60 “St. Francis terriers” were placed during the next few months, after extensive screening and training, but then-SF/SPCA president Richard Avanzino reluctantly suspended the program after several of the re-dubbed dogs killed cats.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Bfgrn said:
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No, the dogs were raised by the babysitter and her boyfriend..

Here is a more in depth link...

Beyond the Interview: Father of Child Killed by Babysitter's Pit Bulls Speaks Out After Attack - DogsBite.org

*The Day of the Attack*







_Images showing Susan's backyard and dog run area, taken in winter 2012._

*Walworth County Sheriff's Office *did not release details about the March 6th attack until nearly a month later. News articles published then reported that the two pit bulls turned from playful and "nippy" into a violent frenzy. We've since learned more about what occurred before and after the attack. The agreement between Susan and the boy's parents was that Dax was always to be kept away from the two pit bulls and the dogs kenneled. March 6th had started that way.

It must be noted that Susan had babysat Dax at her home on at least 20 occasions previously without incident. The set up was always the same. She and Dax spent time in the front part of the house near her two pet chinchillas. The pit bulls were kept kenneled in the back part of the home near a sliding glass door that exited into the backyard and fenced dog run. Susan provided photographs of the backyard where the attack occurred (taken one year earlier) for this essay.

It was 12:30 pm and time for the dogs to be let outside. Susan dressed Dax in his coat; she had on snow boots and an unzipped parka. There was a routine when the dogs were let out of their kennels. Not only did they have to stay in their kennel until the door was fully open, but were also given an okay to exit. Susan was holding Dax on her hip when she opened the kennel doors. The dogs exited in the routine way then went out the glass door and headed toward the dog run.

Still holding Dax, Susan came strolling up behind. She opened the gate and away the dogs went. When it was time, Susan called her dogs to come inside. The dogs ran back normally then suddenly charged Susan and attacked. One clamped onto her leg and the other latched onto her coat, trying to pull her to the ground. A bite to Susan's arm forced Dax out of her arms and sent them both spiraling into the snow. She scrambled to cover the little boy with her body.

She used the open sides of her parka to insulate the boy as her own dogs tore at her hair, one on either side. The pit bulls then started to dig into the snow around and underneath her to reach Dax. She frantically fought off the dogs, but neither responded to her repeated punches and kicks. She even jammed her thumb hard into her female pit bull's eye with no result. The dogs continued their relentless assault, and in the end, were able to pull Susan away, separating her from Dax.
The gate, already unhinged on one side, was ripped down during the struggle, Susan said. Every time she tried to stand up, the dogs knocked her back into the snow. She could see Dax lying on the ground and her two pit bulls guarding him. Under the haze of distorted time that afflicts people in life-threatening situations, Susan crawled far enough away to be able to rise to her feet. She knew while rising that this was her last chance to act. Her snow boots were loose and frayed. During the onslaught, her male pit bull had torn through them, ripping out the laces.

At this stage her two pit bulls were circling the boy -- his bright red blood covered the surrounding snow and was soaking through it. Susan knew she had to run between the dogs with steady feet to pick up Dax. She also knew she might not make it out of the dog run alive. She raced between the two dogs as fast as she could, scooped up the boy and fled toward the house. As she was going through the door, the female pit bull ran under her legs nearly knocking her down again.

This is all that Susan can remember today. She may never remember the rest.

Police released the 911 call Susan made about a month after the fatal attack. The WISN video only depicted a small portion. Notably, the dispatcher is shocked as Susan screams into the phone, "Dogs, dogs, dogs!" The dispatcher inquires, "They attacked a baby?" Susan screams, "Yes!" Further into the 911 call, Susan warns the dispatcher that two pit bulls are running loose outside and that officers may encounter them. "They can shoot them, I don't care!" Susan cried.

The arriving deputy initially feared it was a murder scene, according to reports. Bloodstained snow and fabric covered the backyard where the attack took place. The dogs had ripped Susan's parka to shreds and stripped all of the clothing from the boy during the prolonged attack. Susan was still frantically speaking with 911 when the first deputy arrived. The officer found Dax in a room in the home, totally naked, lying on his back in a pool of blood. He initially thought the boy was dead.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Forget the Yorkie, he'll rule you too. Get a cat.
> ...


LOL, is that a comedy skit? They renamed the breed and expected different results? Dogs can't read.

I don't have a monster, asshole. I have an Amstaff mix of some sort that is a sweetheart around dogs and children. Around livestock and wildlife, not so much. She's a hunter and has dispatched a number of moles, likely a cat too if she could. So she's no danger to anything except rodents that make it into my yard.

A stranger could walk into my house and beat her to death with his fists. She's a pet, not a weapon. You're clueless and the type that should never be trusted with a powerful breed. I would support laws that would weed your type out.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


There's a lot missing in the story.  The dogs went from playful and nippy to violent yet there's no mention of it in her later account when she says they attacked for no reason. The child was on her hip, who they were unfamiliar with, while she was playing with two nippy Pitbulls? Obviously she was not in control, nor were the dogs trained properly. 

Many females do have problems with powerful breeds, they don't have the presence and their dogs are in control. Seen it hundreds of times. Other women have no problem, if you have a weak presence get a smaller dog or cat. And don't play with two big dogs with a baby on your hip, maybe they thought it was a treat.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> LOL, is that a comedy skit? They renamed the breed and expected different results? Dogs can't read.
> 
> I don't have a monster, asshole. I have an Amstaff mix of some sort that is a sweetheart around dogs and children. Around livestock and wildlife, not so much. She's a hunter and has dispatched a number of moles, likely a cat too if she could. So she's no danger to anything except rodents that make it into my yard.
> 
> A stranger could walk into my house and beat her to death with his fists. She's a pet, not a weapon. You're clueless and the type that should never be trusted with a powerful breed. I would support laws that would weed your type out.



True...dogs can't read, and neither can you...Reading comprehension is not your "thing"...

I didn't say your dog is a monster...have an adult decipher what I said...


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Yes Pits do simply bite. All dogs attack.  The difference is that a Pit is bred to inflict severe damage when attacking.  People that own these dogs should be more responsible for that very reason.  You keep trying to say your mixed dog transformed into a purebred Pit and attacked. It doesnt work like that.



The only unanswered question: is your ignorance blind or willful?


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


According to this story the dogs went from playful and "nippy" (which isnt a good thing) to a violent frenzy. Later it says the dogs "suddenly" made a coordinated attack the likes I have never seen or heard of any dogs doing basically contradicting the claim they were playful and nippy just prior.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Yes Pits do simply bite. All dogs attack.  The difference is that a Pit is bred to inflict severe damage when attacking.  People that own these dogs should be more responsible for that very reason.  You keep trying to say your mixed dog transformed into a purebred Pit and attacked. It doesnt work like that.
> ...


My ignorance regarding what?  You said Pits dont simply bite but you are wrong. You said other dogs dont attack but they do.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> There's a lot missing in the story.  The dogs went from playful and nippy to violent yet there's no mention of it in her later account when she says they attacked for no reason. The child was on her hip, who they were unfamiliar with, while she was playing with two nippy Pitbulls? Obviously she was not in control, nor were the dogs trained properly.
> 
> Many females do have problems with powerful breeds, they don't have the presence and their dogs are in control. Seen it hundreds of times. Other women have no problem, if you have a weak presence get a smaller dog or cat. And don't play with two big dogs with a baby on your hip, maybe they thought it was a treat.



*Additional Clarifications*

Susan wanted to clarify an aspect that is stated earlier in this piece, "the two pit bulls turned from playful and 'nippy' that day into a violent frenzy." The "nippy" terminology was taken from police reports released to the media on April 1st. She doesn't believe she ever said the term "nippy" while being interviewed by police in her hospital room. The word implies bad ownership. Her two dogs were "never nippy," she said. Further, "batting dogs away is _not_ playful," she said.

She also wanted to address how her and Steve got the two pit bulls. Susan grew up with a German shepherd, but had friends that owned the breed. Steve had previously owned a pit bull along with other dog breeds. The two had discussed getting a dog for a while. When one of their friends said her pit bull was about to have a litter, the couple acted. They took two puppies from the litter. Getting the dogs was about timing and opportunity, she said, not a "political statement."
"Doing research before getting the puppies never crossed her mind," Susan said. She thought all dogs were the same. Like the father, Susan believed the myth, "It's all how you raise them." Believing this myth, perpetuated by pit bull owners, humane groups and veterinarians, resulted in the death of Dax. Jeff and Susan wanted to be part of this essay so that others who intentionally or unintentionally believe this myth can realize the truth. On March 6th, Susan's well-raised pit bulls acted out their genetic heritage by inflicting an unpredictable destructive attack that took a young boy's life.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> . On March 6th, Susan's well-raised pit bulls acted out their *genetic heritage *by inflicting an unpredictable destructive attack that took a young boy's life.



A Pits genetic heritage is to fight other dogs and be people friendly.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> My ignorance regarding what?  You said Pits dont simply bite but you are wrong. You said other dogs dont attack but they do.



Most dogs "bite", then retreat. Pit bulls don't stop. They are a killing machine. Are you REALLY unaware of their attack patterns? If so, you better get rid of your pit bulls...


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > My ignorance regarding what?  You said Pits dont simply bite but you are wrong. You said other dogs dont attack but they do.
> ...


The facts are that all dogs will bite and retreat depending on whats going on. Pits will and have stopped after attacking out of fear. Since I protection train all of my Pits I know more about their attack pattern than most people walking the planet.  Here is an AB fear biter but a normal lay person wouldnt know it.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> A Pits genetic heritage is to fight other dogs and be people friendly.



LOL...are you now willfully playing along with the MYTH?

Another prevailing myth cited by pit bull advocates and humane groups is that pit bulls are "dog-aggressive not human-aggressive," despite the abundance of people the breed disfigures, maims and kills every year. Pit bulls were selectively bred for explosive animal aggression to excel in dogfighting. As far back as 1909, handlers used the term "man eaters" to describe prized fighters.5 Like a hand grenade going off, explosive aggression often lacks specificity.

* The Deceitful, Harmful Controversy*







_Susan holds Penny as a puppy, Bosston and Penny as adults, taken in 2013._

*In the several hours leading *up to his son's death, Jeff posted updates to his Facebook status about his son's critical condition. Family members and friends were posting messages as well. News of the attack spread rapidly through the community via local media reports. Jeff Borchardt is a popular deejay in his area and has over 1,800 Facebook friends. On March 6th, his Facebook timeline began overflowing with messages from family members, friends and fans.

Within hours of Jeff posting, "He didn't make it," that landscape changed.

Jeff was stricken after the attack, robbed of his son's life, left only with the images of the destructive injuries inflicted by the dogs. In a shaken mental state, he posted some of his thoughts about pit bulls to his status. Instantly, he was thrown into the sphere of fanatical pit bull owners, some of which were his friends.  Breed advocates bombarded his timeline with propaganda, "All dogs bite!" and "Don't blame the breed!" Some posted photos of pit bulls cuddling with babies.

_"THIS IS ABOUT A BABY!" a friend wrote on Jeff's timeline. "Stop posting picts of pits and babies! _​
The next day, the media began copying parts of his postings and placing them into news articles, "Father of boy killed by pit bull attack shares grief." This caused the "invasion" by breed advocates to intensify further. Close friends and family members posted more messages telling them to "BACK OFF!" At this stage, family members were using Jeff's timeline to get information out to people about where to send flowers and cards, which was the Monroe Funeral Home.

While bombardment tactics are common in "mauling threads" -- comment sections following a pit bull attack news story -- harassing the father of a deceased child on his own Facebook timeline is not. At one point on March 7th, Hannah Hoyt begins arguing with Jeff's wife, telling her, "I am very sorry for your loss, BUT ... it's not the dog's fault, it's the owner." Hoyt continues to taunt and antagonize Kim even after Kim states multiple times to stop and "leave us alone."

Readers of this website already know about the multiple studies regarding owners of vicious dogs, which characterize these owners as antisocial and deviant. In the case of Jeff, many of these breed advocates lacked all social boundaries, even when confronted directly by one of the boy's parents. Armed with narcissism and an "impoverished conscience," pit bull advocates continued swarming and flogging Jeff's Facebook page in the aftermath of his son's horrific death.

Susan did not escape similar harassment. Pit bull advocates immediately lined up to prove she was a "bad owner" who "abused her dogs" in order to justify the unprovoked, prolonged attack that left an innocent baby dead. On June 14th, over three months after the attack, Jeff commented on a Brew City Bully Club post (a meme glorifying pit bulls). He quickly learned that Michelle Serocki, who runs the group, secretly private messaged his friend who was commenting beside him.

Serocki wrote to Jeff's friend stating, "The dogs that did this were not well cared for though. I saw them and they were neglected - in my professional opionion almost criminally. You and I can have different opinions on how to care for dogs - but by social and veterinary standards these dogs were neglected." Zealous breed advocates lie and use "perceived expert" tactics all the time. Serocki's deceitful method, however, sheds new light on the "organized" pro-pit bull effort.

_Via a private message, Serocki flat out lied under the auspices of "quasi-credentials" to blame Susan and change the mind of Jeff's friend. _​
When Jeff learned about the message from Serocki, he called her out in a new comment: "Detective Michelle Serocki on the case ... pay attention cause this is not what the real detective told me ... maybe we should reopen the case?" Jeff added: "there was a reason no charges were brought ... there was no history of abuse or neglect." He then suggested that Susan join the discussion, the dogs' owner and the "only witness to my son's murder ... Let's do that, shall we?"

Serocki never responded to Jeff's invitation. See private message conversation in full.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > A Pits genetic heritage is to fight other dogs and be people friendly.
> ...


No its not a myth. To suggest it is is pure ignorance of the facts. The rules of dog fighting require the opposing owner scrub your dog to make sure there is no poison on the fur of your dog or anything else that may be an unfair advantage. Basically these dogs were bred to allow a total stranger to examine them and wash them down before being released to go to battle with another dog. A dog that would not allow such examination was worthless.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> The facts are that all dogs will bite and retreat depending on whats going on. Pits will and have stopped after attacking out of fear. Since I protection train all of my Pits I know more about their attack pattern than most people walking the planet.  Here is an AB fear biter but a normal lay person wouldnt know it.



Thank you for making a VERY strong case that pit bulls are NOT a pet for a "normal lay person"...which is probably 99% of pit bull owners...


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > The facts are that all dogs will bite and retreat depending on whats going on. Pits will and have stopped after attacking out of fear. Since I protection train all of my Pits I know more about their attack pattern than most people walking the planet.  Here is an AB fear biter but a normal lay person wouldnt know it.
> ...


Youre welcome.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> "Doing research before getting the puppies never crossed her mind," Susan said. She thought all dogs were the same. Like the father, Susan believed the myth, "It's all how you raise them." Believing this myth, perpetuated by pit bull owners, humane groups and veterinarians, resulted in the death of Dax. Jeff and Susan wanted to be part of this essay so that others who intentionally or unintentionally believe this myth can realize the truth. On March 6th, Susan's well-raised pit bulls acted out their genetic heritage by inflicting an unpredictable destructive attack that took a young boy's life.


Your BS detector never went off? She knew zip about the breed, didn't research it but we're supposed to believe they were well trained? It doesn't even say they were trained, she repeatedly used the word "raised". Dogs aren't human, they don't think through things or rationalize anything. 

And she somehow knows more than vets? Interesting. She's quite obviously hoping to escape any culpability.


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## GHook93 (Sep 14, 2015)

Can pitbulls, rots, chows, German Sheppards etc be great dogs, absolutely, but responsible parents shouldn't have a dog around young children. Young children don't respect the gravity of the danger that an unintended circumstance might have. Toddlers shouldn't be around aggressive breds and I think parents should wait until their kid is at least 8


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

GHook93 said:


> Can pitbulls, rots, chows, German Sheppards etc be great dogs, absolutely, but responsible parents shouldn't have a dog around young children. Young children don't respect the gravity of the danger that an unintended circumstance might have. Toddlers shouldn't be around aggressive breds and I think parents should wait until their kid is at least 8
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I got my first Pit when my daughter was 5. He saved her from being mauled by a Rottie when she was 7. What if I had waited?


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## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Another prevailing myth cited by pit bull advocates and humane groups is that pit bulls are "dog-aggressive not human-aggressive," despite the abundance of people the breed disfigures, maims and kills every year. Pit bulls were selectively bred for explosive animal aggression to excel in dogfighting. As far back as 1909, handlers used the term "man eaters" to describe prized fighters.5 Like a hand grenade going off, explosive aggression often lacks specificity.


The problem is that I've met many Pits and know the bedwetters are full of shit. They are very popular dogs so there are quite a few out there. I worry much more about German Shepards. The police forces around the world use them for a reason. They need training, if not they can have a hair trigger. Most Pits have been the friendliest dogs at the park.


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## Bonzi (Sep 14, 2015)

This is a long thread, so, I apologize if this has been posted previously

Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada - By Merritt Clifton

In the 10-year period from 2005 to 2014, pit bulls killed 203 Americans and accounted for 62% of the total recorded deaths (326). Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 74% of these deaths


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bonzi said:


> This is a long thread, so, I apologize if this has been posted previously
> 
> Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada - By Merritt Clifton
> 
> In the 10-year period from 2005 to 2014, pit bulls killed 203 Americans and accounted for 62% of the total recorded deaths (326). Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 74% of these deaths


I wonder how many were actually APBT's instead of some other breed?  This is something we will probably never know.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Borchardt said before his son's death, he used to think a dog's behavior was determined by the way it was raised. However, the two pit bulls owned by a woman who was babysitting Dax were raised by the couple since they were puppies and had not been abused.
> ...


 It's horseshit.

People should leave babies with dogs. It's fucking stupid. I had a pit and a saint Bernard...the saint was young and the pit was Snoop, and you know what? I never left them alone with my kids, and my kids were a hell of a lot older than 14 months. I mean I didn't even take a shower with the door shut. Because those dogs weighed more than my kids, and they're DOGS. They're carnivores, and they're pack animals. If you have a pack, you'd better damned well be aware of its nature..and its nature is carnivorous. And you need to be the boss. Your presence is required.

I think a lot of times people think they're being the boss because they have a lot of positive interaction with their dogs. It's kind of interesting about bfgrn's leash thing because that's  not the first time I've seen issues come up because someone thinks it's cute to let their dog play with his leash. It is cute, but that leash should be a representation and extension of you, and if the dog is fine with grabbing it and gnawing on it or dragging it or jumping up for it, or shaking it, that's really not a good thing.


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## Bonzi (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Bonzi said:
> 
> 
> > This is a long thread, so, I apologize if this has been posted previously
> ...


 
You had a unique situation with your daughter, and I'm glad she is okay, but, overall, really?  Is it worth it?
Why is it so "gosh darn" important for people to own these dogs?  There are SO MANY OTHERS with almost zero chance of harm coming to them... really I will never understand....


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

*Quick statistics ::*
This page is a collection of dog bite statistics that are located on DogsBite.org or can reached by a web link. Notably, each year, an American has a one in 50 chance of being bitten by a dog.1

In the 10-year period from 2005 to 2014, two dog breeds accounted for 74% of the attacks that resulted in death: pit bulls and rottweilers.

2014 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2015

71% of the pit bull fatalities have occurred in the past 10 years; 42% in the past four years; 24% in the past two years.


30-Year Summary: Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada September 1982 to December 26, 2011 by Merritt Clifton, _Animal People_, 2012

Over 700 U.S. cities have adopted breed-specific laws since the mid 1980s, just after pit bulls (fighting dogs) began leaking into the general population.

Estimated U.S. Cities, Counties and Military Facilities with Breed-Specific Laws by DogsBite.org, 2015

By 2017, pit bulls are projected to maul 305 Americans to death since 1998, the year the CDC stopped tracking fatal dog attacks by breed.

Fatalpitbullattacks.com, 2014, Nonprofits Urge CDC to Resume Tracking Richer Data Set for Children and Adults Disfigured, Maimed and Killed by Dogs, DogsBite.org, 2014

In the 10-year period from 2005 to 2014, pit bulls killed 203 Americans, about one citizen every 18 days.

2014 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2015

In 2014, loose dogs off their owner's property inflicted 40% of all fatal attacks, a sharp rise from the last 10-year rate of 24% (2005 to 2014).

2014 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2015

In 2013, over one-third, 38%, of all dog bite fatality victims were either visiting or living temporarily with the dog's owner when the fatal attack occurred.

2013 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2014

In 2012, more than 27,000 people underwent reconstructive surgery as a result of being bitten by dogs.

2012 Plastic Surgery Statistics Report by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, 2013

In the 3-year period of 2006 to 2008, 18% of all fatal dog attacks occurred off owner property. Pit bulls were responsible for 81% of these attacks.

Report: U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities January 2006 to December 2008 by DogsBite.org, 2010

In the first eight months of 2011, nearly half of the persons killed by a pit bull was the dog's owner and primary caretaker.

2011 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2011

Over 40 countries across the world regulate dangerous dog breeds with breed-specific laws including: France, Norway, Spain, Portugal and Great Britain.

Estimated U.S. Cities, Counties and Military Facilities with Breed-Specific Laws by DogsBite.org, 2015

In 2011, adult victims of fatal pit bull attacks more than doubled the number of child victims.

2011 Dog Bite Fatalities by DogsBite.org, 2012

A study published in 2010 showed there were 4 times as many dog bite-related ED visits and 3 times as many hospital stays in rural areas than in urban areas.

Emergency Department Visits and Inpatient Stays Involving Dog Bites, 2008 by AHRQ, 2010

Pit bull terriers were selectively bred for a violent activity that is now a felony in all 50 U.S. states: dogfighting.


Dogfighting Fact Sheet by the Human Society of the United States

Over 290 U.S. military bases governed by the U.S. Air Force, Air Force Space Command, U.S. Army, U.S. Marine Corps and Navy regulate dangerous dog breeds.

Estimated U.S. Cities, Counties and Military Facilities with Breed-Specific Laws by DogsBite.org, 2015

Dog attack victims suffer over $1 billion in monetary losses annually. JAMA reports this estimate to be as high as $2 billion.

Dog Bites Recognized as Public Health Problem by R. Voelker, _JAMA_, 1997

A 2010 study showed that the average cost of a dog bite-related hospital stay was $18,200, about 50% higher than the average injury-related hospital stay.

Emergency Department Visits and Inpatient Stays Involving Dog Bites, 2008 by AHRQ, 2010

Dog bites occur every 75 seconds in the United States. Each day, over 1,000 citizens need emergency medical care to treat these injuries.

Nonfatal Dog Bite-Related Injuries Treated in Hospital Emergency Departments - United States, 2001 by the CDC, 2003

Dog bites are the fifth highest reason why children seek emergency room treatment due to activities they voluntarily engage in, such as playing sports.

Incidence of Dog Bite Injuries Treated in Emergency Departments (1992-1994) by H. Weiss, D. Friedman and J. Coben, _JAMA_, 1998

Quick Statistics - DogsBite.org


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bonzi said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bonzi said:
> ...


Is what worth it?  Why is it so gosh darn important for people to own a specific breed of horse or cat?  There is no other dog breed that combines all the qualities I find in Pitbulls.  I guess its a matter of choice.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> *Quick statistics ::*
> This page is a collection of dog bite statistics that are located on DogsBite.org or can reached by a web link. Notably, each year, an American has a one in 50 chance of being bitten by a dog.1
> 
> In the 10-year period from 2005 to 2014, two dog breeds accounted for 74% of the attacks that resulted in death: pit bulls and rottweilers.
> ...


Even if all of that were to be true all it does is point to the fact that the owners dont know how to train their dogs properly.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



We didn't let Buddy "play" with his leash...you really need to lie (Darla fell off a ladder bullshit) or just make shit up...why is that KG?


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


I wouldnt leave a baby with any carnivore. Cats included. People that pretend their animals are human and dont understand their instincts are asking for trouble.


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## Bonzi (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > *Quick statistics ::*
> ...


 
So people would say that same thing about any other dangerous pet.
Just don't own a pet with a propensity for danger.  It's just dumb and unnecessary


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Iceweasel said:
> ...


What do you think triggered you dog when you reached for the leash?  Most dog associate the leash with going for a walk. Had you or anyone else ever hit your dog with the leash?


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bonzi said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...


It not dumb. I consider people to be dumb when they dont know the facts and they fall prey to hype.  The facts are that if you pick your dogs wisely, train them, and watch to see if they have any dominance issues then you have zero chance of something crazy happening like an attack.  If you make excuses for your dogs behavior time and time again then you have a ticking time bomb on your hands.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Even if all of that were to be true all it does is point to the fact that the owners dont know how to train their dogs properly.



I have had dogs for 60 years...ALL my dogs were well behaved, obedient, never bit me or anyone else, and were great with family, neighbors and friends... 

It is clear pit bulls are not for a "normal lay person"


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Even if all of that were to be true all it does is point to the fact that the owners dont know how to train their dogs properly.
> ...


Well by your own admission you had a mix and not a purebred Pit.  Having dogs for 60 years is not the same as knowing how to train them properly. Plenty of people get away with having dogs that are not trained properly. I consider it blind luck. I agree the normal lay person should not own them. They are capable of doing too much damage.


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## Bonzi (Sep 14, 2015)

Any animal you have to be trained to handle because of the danger should not be a pet.
At a minimum, maybe you should have to have training to own them.  Honestly, I just think you can certainly live without them.... it's not like a life necessity.


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## SmarterThanTheAverageBear (Sep 14, 2015)

I wouldn't trust Asclepias around my children, let alone his fucking Pit bull.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


 
Yeah it's very much a conscious things with certain dogs. You have to assert yourself, and if you can't or don't want to , you shouldn't be messing with them.

But honestly, who can control anything with a kid on their hip. I can see having one dog around the place but you shouldn't have two big, active dogs bouncing around if you've got little kids running around. I have grandkids that come to visit and we manage the dogs the whole time they're there. It's part of having powerful dogs. You keep an eye on them, you teach the kids how to interact appropriately with them. You don't tempt fate. I put them up when the kids are eating, it's just easier and safer. You can't predict what kids will do with a chicken bone and dogs will fight over a chicken bone. We also have the dogs out sometimes at meals, and it's a family affair where we monitor and check behaviors. As for just letting the dogs run pell-mell all over the house without real present adult control, nope.

Snoop used to have a thing with his leash, too. His mom and dad thought it was cute, and it really was cute, but it was also a source of excitement. They'd all make such a big thing out of him finding his leash and bringing it to daddy. He will climb up on book cases and get that thing and drag it around. That's one of the behaviors I really don't feed into since he's come to stay. He'll still do it with dad but when it's us, I put the leash up and I don't want him to get it. I don't want him jumping around when I put it on him. I don't want him to take it in his mouth, I don't want him racing through the house with the snap end whipping around. He still sneaks and finds it every now and then, I'll come home and he'll have it out. But I just pick it up and give him a look and put it away.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bonzi said:


> Any animal you have to be trained to handle because of the danger should not be a pet.
> At a minimum, maybe you should have to have training to own them.  Honestly, I just think you can certainly live without them.... it's not like a life necessity.


If thats the case no one should own a dog, cat, horse, etc etc.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> What do you think triggered you dog when you reached for the leash?  Most dog associate the leash with going for a walk. Had you or anyone else ever hit your dog with the leash?



You would have to ask Buddy...

The only difference I ever noticed about Buddy, compared to the 8 other dogs I owned or grew up with is that he would not run away from a garden hose or a vacuum cleaner.

My guess is fear...


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > The facts are that all dogs will bite and retreat depending on whats going on. Pits will and have stopped after attacking out of fear. Since I protection train all of my Pits I know more about their attack pattern than most people walking the planet.  Here is an AB fear biter but a normal lay person wouldnt know it.
> ...


 Yes but it's true of any big breed. Normal lay people shouldn't have multiple german shepherds, either.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think triggered you dog when you reached for the leash?  Most dog associate the leash with going for a walk. Had you or anyone else ever hit your dog with the leash?
> ...


When he was growling at you was his tail up and wagging or tucked underneath?  BTW did you have on anything out of the ordinary like a hat or a hoodie?


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> *Quick statistics ::*
> This page is a collection of dog bite statistics that are located on DogsBite.org or can reached by a web link. Notably, each year, an American has a one in 50 chance of being bitten by a dog.1
> 
> In the 10-year period from 2005 to 2014, two dog breeds accounted for 74% of the attacks that resulted in death: pit bulls and rottweilers.
> ...


 
Propaganda.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

"Notably, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has no recent data."
U.S. Dog Bite Studies - DogsBite.org


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

The CDC's disclaimer regarding statistics regarding bites by breed:

"Numerator data may be biased for 4reasons. First, the human DBRF reported here are like-ly underestimated; prior work suggests the approachwe used identifies only 74% of actual cases.1,2Second,to the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more news-worthy than those by other breeds, our methods mayhave resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalitiesby breed. Third, because identification of a dog’s breedmay be subjective (even experts may disagree on thebreed of a particular dog), DBRF may be differentiallyascribed to breeds with a reputation for aggression.Fourth, it is not clear how to count attacks by cross-bred dogs. Ignoring these data underestimates breedinvolvement (29% of attacking dogs were crossbreddogs), whereas including them permits a single dog tobe counted more than once."

Ouch.

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

The CDC's CONTINUED disclaimer..it goes on for quite a bit:

"The denominator of a dog breed-specific humanDBRF rate *requires* reliable breed-specific population/data. Unfortunately, *such data are not currently available*."

Bam. The stats by breed mean NOTHING.
http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Lets ban Chihuahuas

Girl recovering after being attacked by pack of Chihuahuas


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Wow! this is a Golden Retriever and they dont have an aggressive bone in their body.

Horror as rescue dog kills and dismembers two-month-old baby while his father slept


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

The whole leash thing is funny because my girlfriend has a 10 month old shepherd type pup that they think has lab in it (I think it's a freaking Australian Shepherd, I don't see any indication of lab at all). That dog strains at the leash and freaking grabs the leash and leaps up and snatches it, and literally carries the leash in her mouth while they're walking, way out front. Not good.


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## rdean (Sep 14, 2015)

Wake said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

rdean said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


So now its morphed into she ordered her dogs to attack the guy even though she is obviously trying to stop them?

Edit...

My bad. I just looked closer and thats a guy trying to stop them.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think triggered you dog when you reached for the leash?  Most dog associate the leash with going for a walk. Had you or anyone else ever hit your dog with the leash?
> ...


 Why would he be afraid of the leash?

And why would the fact that he didn't run away from garden hose or vacuum cleaners result in him attacking you, or be indicative of fear? I think he was dominant and you missed all the previous clues.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

I've seen dogs who will react to brooms and hoses and leashes and sticks because they've been teased with them, hit with them, or aggressively played with. Snoop used to get extremely antsy if anyone picked up a stick or anything like it. So I did a lot of desensitizing him to it, now he's fine. Who knows what it came from but it came from somewhere before he came to live with us.


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## SmarterThanTheAverageBear (Sep 14, 2015)

I would also be all for banning ANY breed of dog that weighs less than 10 lbs. Annoying little fucks who think they have something to prove.

Asclepias , for instance.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

rdean said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


 People are fucking retarded.


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## SmarterThanTheAverageBear (Sep 14, 2015)

Wake said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



I think there is enough evidence to show that Pits are more predisposed to violence than other breeds. I mean there is a reason they were chosen to be bred to fight in the first place.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

rdean said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


I just read the story and something is not adding up. The guy that was attacked said the woman was not strong enough to hold the dogs and he thought they wanted to be petted.  Where did the command to attack come in?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pit-bulls-attack-man-bronx-graphic-video-shows-article-1.2358056

"Police said the dogs’ owner, Cynthia Oliver, ordered the dogs to attack after an argument, but Bove, an Italian immigrant, said he never talked to the woman."

"“She was a petite, weak lady. (The dogs) were dragging her wherever they go and she couldn’t hold onto (the leash),” he said. "

"As the dogs approached, he thought they wanted to be petted, but the canines had something else in mind. “They came to me, and I thought they were friendly but they jumped on me and I felt the bite,” he said. “I started to kick them off. I lost a big chunk of my arm. I could see it. I could see the bone.”"


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## sear (Sep 14, 2015)

Dogs, as humans, are constrained by intrinsic limitation.
There aren't many midgets in the NBA.
When prison-guards pursue an escapee, they use bloodhounds, not a Chihuahua.


> "Pit bulls are safe around children!"


Some are.
Some are not.
The most aggressive dog attack I've experienced in my adult life was from pit-bulls. 

Dogs have killed hundreds of us,
KILLED hundreds of us in the past decade.
This doesn't list any non-fatal attack.
*
2014 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities
In 2014, 42 dog attacks resulted in human death: 19 child victims, 1 young teen victim and 22 adults. The state of Texas had the most dog bite-related fatalities in 2014 with 7 deaths.

	2013 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities
In 2013, 32 dog attacks resulted in human death: 18 child victims and 14 adult victims. The state of California had the highest number of dog bite-related fatalities in 2013 with 5 deaths.

	2012 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities
In 2012, 38 dog attacks resulted in human death: 19 child victims and 19 adult victims. The states of California and North Carolina had the most fatal dog attacks in 2012, each with 4 deaths.

	2011 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities
In 2011, 31 dog attacks resulted in human death: 13 child victims and 18 adult victims. The states of California and Texas had the most fatal dog attacks in 2011, each with 4 deaths.

	2010 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities
In 2010, 33 dog attacks resulted in human death: 20 child victims and 13 adult victims. The state of California had the highest number of dog bite-related fatalities in 2010 with 7 deaths.

	2009 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities
In 2009, 32 dog attacks resulted in human death: 20 child victims and 12 adult victims. The state of Texas had the highest number of dog bite-related fatalities in 2009 with 5 deaths.

	2008 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities
In 2008, 23 dog attacks resulted in human death: 16 child victims and 7 adult victims. No single state led fatal dog attacks in 2008. Six states each incurred 2 dog bite-related deaths.

	2007 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities
In 2007, 35 dog attacks resulted in human death: 18 child victims and 17 adult victims. The state of Texas had the highest number of dog bite-related fatalities in 2007 with 7 deaths.

	2006 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities
In 2006, 30 dog attacks resulted in human death: 13 child victims and 17 adult victims. The state of Texas had the highest number of dog bite-related fatalities in 2006 with 6 deaths.

	2005 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities
In 2005, 29 dog attacks resulted in human death: 14 child victims, 2 young teen victims and 13 adults. The state of California had the most dog bite-related fatalities in 2005 with 4 deaths.

IN THE 10-YEAR PERIOD FROM 2005 TO 2014, PIT BULLS KILLED 203 AMERICANS AND ACCOUNTED FOR 62% OF THE TOTAL RECORDED DEATHS (326). COMBINED, PIT BULLS AND ROTTWEILERS ACCOUNTED FOR 74% OF THESE DEATHS. 

DOGSBITE.ORG1 CONTAINS VERIFIABLE2 INFORMATION ABOUT U.S. CITIZENS KILLED BY DOGS INCLUDING THE NAME AND AGE OF EACH VICTIM, LOCATION OF ATTACK, DOG BREED AND UP TO 18 OTHER FACTORS. 
U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities - Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org
*


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> rdean said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...


 
I watch that video and there's a lot of weird going on.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

sear said:


> Dogs, as humans, are constrained by intrinsic limitation.
> There aren't many midgets in the NBA.
> When prison-guards pursue an escapee, they use bloodhounds, not a Chihuahua.
> 
> ...


 
That's a propaganda site.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Dogsbite.org is a biased site set up by a woman who was attacked by a dog identified as a pitbull type when she was out running.

"Every mainstream national organization that is involved in canine/human interactions is opposed to laws targeting specific breeds of dogs. An at-least partial list of these organizations include:
American Dog Owners Association
American Humane
American Kennel Club (AKC)
American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA)
American Veterinary Medical Association  (AVMA)
American Working Dog Federation
Association of Pet Dog Trainers
Best Friends
Center for Disease Control
Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)
International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants
International Association of Canine Professionals
National Animal Control Association
National Animal Interest Alliance
National  Association of Dog Obedience Instructors
National Canine Research Council
No Kill Advocacy Center"

The Truth Behind Dogsbite.org


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## sear (Sep 14, 2015)

kg #992 & #993
Thank you kg.

a) Has any domesticated canid ever killed any human?

b) If there has ever been a single fatality, how many were there, over the past 10 years?

Calling the source wrong is fine, but insufficient.
WHAT ARE THE CORRECT FIGURES?


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


 
Because they're athletic and freaking tough.


sear said:


> kg #992 & #993
> Thank you kg.
> 
> a) Has any domesticated canid ever killed any human?
> ...


 
I already posted what the CDC says. Which is that there aren't any correct figures. There are too many angles and no conformity in record keeping or reporting.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:


> Wake said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


Yes there is a reason. They are small, athletic, strong, stable temperament, and have a never quit attitude.


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## SmarterThanTheAverageBear (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...



stable temperament LOL

Dude come on.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> 
> 
> > Wake said:
> ...


 Exactly! Schlep, I almost like you right now. The thing about terriers...they are brave.

But they're big dogs and idiots shouldn't have them. Just like guns. And as we've seen with gun bans, they don't work. Neither do breed bans. All that happens is the idiots find a substitute or just go underground.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> ...


Obviously you have never owned a Pit.  Show me another dog breed that can go from trying to attack a person through a fence and alternating between that and licking the childs arm that is stuck through the fence the dumb person that is agitating the dog didnt see?


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## SmarterThanTheAverageBear (Sep 14, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> ...



I'm not for a breed ban. That's stupid.

I prefer an owner ban on a case by case basis. And it's a shame that when something DOES happen, it's the dog that is destroyed. Kill the stupid owner.


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## SmarterThanTheAverageBear (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



True, I've never needed a dog to show how big my dick is.



That's what my guns are for.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> ...


Guns or dogs dont show how big your dick is. Odd how you think that. Are you projecting?   Like most people that have never owned a Pit your assumption you can speak on their temperament is weird and ignorant.  That would be like me saying space aliens like beef jerky.


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## SmarterThanTheAverageBear (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...



No shit dummy, learn to take a joke.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

The Fighting Dogs That Were Actually Bred To Be Friendly - KnowledgeNuts

"However, the nature of professional pit fights ensured that the dogs were bred to be very friendly to people. During the course of a match, several people were forced to touch the animal, and if it lashed out against a human, it would be culled."


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > SmarterThanTheAverageBear said:
> ...


Like you learned to get poked?  No thanks.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

I don't even have a dick, and I like guns (well, I like the freedom to own them) and powerful dogs and horses that are a bit of a handful.

I also like dogs and horses that are totally laid back and not a handful at all though. They all have their merits.


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## Uncensored2008 (Sep 14, 2015)

CremeBrulee said:


> I don't think you can get them registered with AKC yet.  Without that registration it can't compete at Westminster, which is the only show that matters.  You can register a Staffordshire Terrier with AKC; that is similar but still a different breed.



What are you talking about? American Pit Bull has been an AKC breed for about a hundred years. 

American Pit Bull Terrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Uncensored2008 said:


> CremeBrulee said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think you can get them registered with AKC yet.  Without that registration it can't compete at Westminster, which is the only show that matters.  You can register a Staffordshire Terrier with AKC; that is similar but still a different breed.
> ...


Show me even one that is registered with the AKC uneducated. 

Make sure its an APBT and not an AmStaff.

American Staffordshire Terrier Dog Breed Information - American Kennel Club


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> The Fighting Dogs That Were Actually Bred To Be Friendly - KnowledgeNuts
> 
> "However, the nature of professional pit fights ensured that the dogs were bred to be very friendly to people. During the course of a match, several people were forced to touch the animal, and if it lashed out against a human, it would be culled."


 You see it if you've ever watched dog fighting. Those guys are right there, and they grab the dogs without even thinking about it, and without getting bit. I look at that dog attack video and I'm like, why aren't those guys grabbing the dogs???? Obviously you aren't going to be able to pull the dude away from them, and they're going to bite you, too. Get behind them and grab them. But you need #2 person too, or the second dog is going to come for you...

My daughter in law, a slender, beautiful Mexican girl, and I, a stout gramma, would have done a better job of stopping that fight. We stopped fights between our pit, saint and a PRT (the little guy is always the instigator btw).


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

koshergrl said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > The Fighting Dogs That Were Actually Bred To Be Friendly - KnowledgeNuts
> ...


My first Pit came from a guy that fought them professionally.  When I found out about how they were bred to be people friendly I was sold.  When I went to pick my dog up I was even more impressed with the mother and the father who were both fighting dogs but had no problem with me petting them.


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## Godboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


Only a loser fucking shit stain would buy dogs from a guy who forces them to fight. You are despicable.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > koshergrl said:
> ...


Or a guy that wants to make sure that if he gets a dog capable of killing a grown man that the dog is stable.  Pits like to fight. You dont have to force them.


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## Godboy (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Godboy said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


Oh, so then you agree that they are prone to attacking, or did you just slip up because you're too stupid to keep your position straight?


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Godboy said:


> Asclepias said:
> 
> 
> > Godboy said:
> ...


Yes I agree they are prone to attacking other dogs. Are you some kind of idiot?  Where have I said any different?


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> koshergrl said:
> 
> 
> > Asclepias said:
> ...


 My son bought his from someone who bred them to fight too. I was not pleased. But he wanted one that was typey. He never had any intent to fight him or breed him for fighters. And Snoop is absolutely the most wonderful dog in the world. We gave him a good home and a good life, infinitely better than what he might have had. My son has always said the same thing...one of the reason pits are good at fighting is that they don't like to fight..but they will do it if their owners want them to, and that is an indication of their heart for their people.

All I know is we love him. And I think trust is the most important factor in raising safe dogs, especially powerful ones. They have to TRUST that you are going to be there for them, to intervene if any threat presents itself, and to take charge. Absent that, they're going to take charge, and a dog is just a dog...their idea of taking charge and *playing* is conducive to injury for someone.


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## GHook93 (Sep 14, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> > Can pitbulls, rots, chows, German Sheppards etc be great dogs, absolutely, but responsible parents shouldn't have a dog around young children. Young children don't respect the gravity of the danger that an unintended circumstance might have. Toddlers shouldn't be around aggressive breds and I think parents should wait until their kid is at least 8
> ...


You could say the same about a gun of there is an intruder in the house.

You have a good dog there, you better spoil him/her


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

We're kind of yellers in my family. When we all start yelling Snoop starts barking right along with us. He totally mimics what we're doing. He talks to us too...and he'll talk to you as long as you want to listen to his loud, heinous wrahr-wrahring BARK BARK BARK ing.


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## sear (Sep 14, 2015)

*"I already posted what the CDC says. Which is that there aren't any correct figures." #995*

Then how can they know her figures are wrong?
If you check the site, it says it includes specific details on each corpse.

If there's proof that any one report is false, I'd dismiss the entire report / Internet site.
But I have no such proof. Thus I remain openminded, it _might_  be true.

*"There are too many angles and no conformity in record keeping or reporting."*

The site mentions only dead humans. Not much ambiguity about that.

I'm attacked by dogs ROUTINELY. Matter of fact, I just put 20 miles on my new bicycle, and was chased by one dog (but he couldn't catch me), and charged by another. But I ordered that one down, and it obeyed me.
Last month I was attacked by two Pit-Bulls at once. That's thrilling.
I told the town board if it happened again I'd kill the dogs, and showed them a picture of the long-handled hatchet I'd use to get the job done.

That got their attention, and I think they sent a first responder out there and issue a fine for violating our local leash law.
But let there be no doubt:
there are all kinds of dangers bicycling around here. But domesticated dog attacks are more dangerous than all the others combined.


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## Asclepias (Sep 14, 2015)

Here is an example of two idiot owners.  Luckily nothing happened.

PIT BULL VS ROTTWEILER!!! HUGE BULLY VS ROTTWEILER TWINS


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

sear said:


> *"I already posted what the CDC says. Which is that there aren't any correct figures." #995*
> 
> Then how can they know her figures are wrong?
> If you check the site, it says it includes specific details on each corpse.
> ...


 
Do you have a study in front of you that states dogs can fly?

If you don't, it MIGHT be true.

There is no evidence that pit bulls as a breed are any more dangerous than any other powerful breed. What we do know is that there are a lot of them, and they are currently the dog du jour of criminal thug types of people who like to amass them and are typically poorly educated, criminal, destitute  idiots who can't take care of their own children's needs, let alone manage powerful dogs.

It comes down to education. Go into the neighborhoods where the dogs are and educate those fools. You can imagine how much funding is available, and how many volunteers are actually qualified, to do that. None (funding) and not many. Banning dogs isn't going to fix anything.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 14, 2015)

sear said:


> I'm attacked by dogs ROUTINELY. Matter of fact, I just put 20 miles on my new bicycle, and was chased by one dog (but he couldn't catch me), and charged by another.
> 
> there are all kinds of dangers bicycling around here. But domesticated dog attacks are more dangerous than all the others combined.


That would indicate to me that bicycling there was hazardous to my health. Sorry it doesn't speak to you but some people have to learn the hard way.


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## sear (Sep 14, 2015)

> "That would indicate to me that bicycling there was hazardous to my health. Sorry it doesn't speak to you but some people have to learn the hard way." Iw


My life is at risk either way.
I want the cardiovascular benefits of bicycling 60 miles a week.
I'd rather skin my knee than die of a heart attack.

I'm pretty good on two wheels. I've been bicycling for over half a century.
I've got a nice Schwinn, a brand new Trek, and a Yamaha for when I don't feel like pedaling much.

Fact is I'm good enough so I can joust and win most of the time. I carry a water bottle, and when the attacking dog gets within range I hose it in the eyes and up the nose.
That both temporarily blinds them, and seems to disorient them a little. And it's usually enough for me to make a get-away.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

sear said:


> > "That would indicate to me that bicycling there was hazardous to my health. Sorry it doesn't speak to you but some people have to learn the hard way." Iw
> 
> 
> My life is at risk either way.
> ...


I'd get some bear spray at the very least. They'll go away and probably not bother you again.


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## sear (Sep 14, 2015)

*"I'd get some bear spray at the very least. They'll go away and probably not bother you again." kg*

Thanks kg.
Problem is, I cruise at about 15 mph. And sometimes there are winds that fast or faster.
Liquid can be aimed more precisely, and has better range, with tighter pattern, than any spray I've found.
And these bottles are designed to deliver a nice tight stream. I think I can get a 6' - 8' range with it.
They're designed to be carried on a bicycle, so that makes it easy and convenient.
There's lots of "ammo" in a full water bottle, and it's practically free.

But despite Skinner's teachings on "operant conditioning", many of these dogs don't learn *.
Beagles in particular have the IQ of a blacksmith's anvil.

One beagle in particular used to attack me each time I'd pass.
I kicked that dog in the ribs, in the spine, in the head, and even stomped its head into the pavement so hard I heard its jowls slap the pavement.
And it just kept coming back for more.
I exchanged words with the owner, and explained that if any personal injury resulted from his criminal negligence, I'd hire the worst ambulance-chasing lawyer on the planet; with these instructions:
_Mr. attorney, the criminal negligence of this home owner threatens the entire community, any passer-by. If he can't own a home responsibly then let's take his home away from him. Sue him for every penny he's got._
There's no dog there anymore.

* I've been doing this about 8 years. In those 8 years, and thousands of local miles, only two dogs that I can think of have learned.
They attacked.
They got it in the face.
And when they attacked again weeks later, when they saw me aiming the water bottle at them, they turned and ran.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Beagles can be a tad stubborn lol.


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## koshergrl (Sep 14, 2015)

Though my son recently discovered the bear spray that I have in the hilt of a cheap knife I picked up as hiking gear....it shoots a stream. Can be a bit wheezy for you if the wind is blowing or you get it on your fingers...which you will.


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## sear (Sep 14, 2015)

Thanks kg.
Problem is, these attacks are so frequent (it's 60 miles a week!! in an environment so rural they can break the law with impunity for months, or perhaps years) I'd need to buy that by the case. That's expensive.

I was talking with our excellent Dog Control Officer, and I told him about how I kicked them in the head until I learned the water bottle trick. He said, just make sure it's water.
GOOD IDEA!!
Why didn't I think of that!
Ever got soap in your eye?
So I considered putting soapy water in there. But I haven't needed to, yet.


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## Unkotare (Sep 14, 2015)

sear said:


> I've been bicycling for over half a century....




You must be really tired.


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## sear (Sep 14, 2015)

Thanks Uk,
Actually, it's a bicycle; one front tire, one rear tire.

Does that mean I'm two tired?


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## Bfgrn (Sep 14, 2015)

What kind of country have we become where people defend proven killers?

There is zero doubt pit bulls are a dangerous breed...ZERO.

There are enough dangers in our society. Going for a stroll, walking to church or riding your bicycle and being viciously attacked by a dog shouldn't be one of them.

I grew up in the 50's and 60's...in our suburban community there wasn't even a leash law. Never seen or heard of anyone being attacked by a dog. 

How may fellow citizens need to be killed or maimed to take responsible action?


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## sear (Sep 15, 2015)

Bg 1030

That's fine.
Problem is, it's a bell-curve.
The kindest pit-bull is safer than the most ferocious collie (which can be ferocious indeed).

What legal standard would be applied to outlawing a pet breed?


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## ninja007 (Sep 15, 2015)

hello? you guys are missing a major point- pitbulls are bred to fight- period- to the death; it is the breed. Violence to the death is ingrained in them. Inter-breeding is also an issue- animal expert here.


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## ninja007 (Sep 15, 2015)

Pit bulls make up only 6% of the dog population, but they’re responsible for 68% of dog attacks and 52% of dog-related deaths since 1982. Pit bulls are the young black males of society.


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## ninja007 (Sep 15, 2015)

Asclepias said:


> Bfgrn said:
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holy crap, I agree with this.


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## HUGGY (Sep 15, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> Asclepias said:
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Ha...Ha!!!  The pit bull GROWLED at the owner????  My pit wouldn't THINK of growling at me.  And I have NEVER physically disciplined her.  She's no shy dog at showing all comers who's boss when in protection mode either.  The pit GROWLED at the owner???  Somebody doesn't have a clue how to raise and handle a Pit Bull.

AND it's not what you do AFTER your dog growls at you either.  It's what the hell you did that let that dog believe it was even possible in this universe that it was conceivable that it should growl at it's owner.

Buddy..you have SERIOUS problems with your mutt.  THAT dog WILL bite you or somebody you don't want it to and you won't have any say in the situation.  You are raising and handling a very dangerous animal.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 15, 2015)

sear said:


> Thanks kg.
> Problem is, these attacks are so frequent (it's 60 miles a week!! in an environment so rural they can break the law with impunity for months, or perhaps years) I'd need to buy that by the case. That's expensive.
> 
> I was talking with our excellent Dog Control Officer, and I told him about how I kicked them in the head until I learned the water bottle trick. He said, just make sure it's water.
> ...


Diluted vinegar water is the standard solution to that. Doesn't hurt the dogs but gets their attention quickly, and it's cheap.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 15, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> Pit bulls make up only 6% of the dog population, but they’re responsible for 68% of dog attacks and 52% of dog-related deaths since 1982. Pit bulls are the young black males of society.


Nice racist twist there. But all this anti-Pit talk refuses to acknowledge the breed is very often chosen by the wrong people for the wrong reasons. There are many more examples of them being great dogs so the dog isn't the problem, people are.


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## sear (Sep 15, 2015)

> "Pit bulls make up only 6% of the dog population, but they’re responsible for 68% of dog attacks and 52% of dog-related deaths since 1982." n0 #1033


Thanks for the info n0.
Do you have a link (URL) to that, or other dangerous dog related material?


> "Diluted vinegar water is the standard solution to that. Doesn't hurt the dogs but gets their attention quickly, and it's cheap. " Iw #1036


Thanks Iw. And perhaps in a pinch, I could still drink it.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 15, 2015)

sear said:


> Thanks Iw. And perhaps in a pinch, I could still drink it.


Ugh. But if you use Bragg's Apple Cider vinegar it would be healthy, tart but healthy.


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## ChrisL (Sep 15, 2015)

ninja007 said:


> hello? you guys are missing a major point- pitbulls are bred to fight- period- to the death; it is the breed. Violence to the death is ingrained in them. Inter-breeding is also an issue- animal expert here.



And how are you an "expert?"  Do tell.


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## sear (Sep 15, 2015)

Thanks again Iw, next time I'm The store, I'll look
Bragg's


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## ChrisL (Sep 15, 2015)

I thought I read somewhere that small dogs were actually responsible for most dog bites.  I could be wrong, but I thought I read that before.  I'll have to check it out.  

Of course, the larger dogs do more damage, but if you think about it, some small dogs can be quite vicious but no one takes them seriously.  Lol.  I've been bit by a few small dogs actually.  

However, they could probably hurt a child or baby.


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## pwjohn (Sep 15, 2015)

pillars said:


> Pit Bull is not a breed.  The bully dogs that are often classified as pitbulls are American Staffordshire terriers, Staffordshire bull terriers, Bull terriers, American Pit Bull Terrier, American Bulldogs, and mixed breed dogs that are said to resemble these dog breeds.  Because "pit bull" encompasses such a large number of dog breeds and mixed breed combinations, there are real problems with the classification of dogs in this study.  Based upon the way that "pit bulls" are identified, more than 5 million dogs in the U.S. would fit this designation, representing 30-40% of all dogs in the U.S.
> 
> Further, the data is unreliable.  Medically attended dog bites | Canine Research Council



From what I've seen, and just guessing, , I would have to say that the 5 million number sounds about right.  Percentage of the total population is where they get it  wrong.. imo


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## Bfgrn (Sep 17, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> Ha...Ha!!!  The pit bull GROWLED at the owner????  My pit wouldn't THINK of growling at me.  And I have NEVER physically disciplined her.  She's no shy dog at showing all comers who's boss when in protection mode either.  The pit GROWLED at the owner???  Somebody doesn't have a clue how to raise and handle a Pit Bull.
> 
> AND it's not what you do AFTER your dog growls at you either.  It's what the hell you did that let that dog believe it was even possible in this universe that it was conceivable that it should growl at it's owner.
> 
> Buddy..you have SERIOUS problems with your mutt.  THAT dog WILL bite you or somebody you don't want it to and you won't have any say in the situation.  You are raising and handling a very dangerous animal.



The dog tried to kill me you asshole. And the dog was immediately put down.

I have had dogs for 60 years. My dad raised them when I was a child and I raised them when I moved out and got married. All of our dogs were extremely well behaved and obedient. NONE of our dogs ever showed any aggression towards any human beings.

My dad always said when you think you know what you're doing, THAT is when you better be aware. You may THINK you are a macho man and have complete control of your pit bull. But that's because you are a ignorant fuck.

Yes, the pit bull IS a dangerous animal. It should be banned. It is not a "pet", it is a felon with a tail.

But macho turds and criminals like you NEED a dangerous dog to fill your insecurity.

Go fuck yourself...


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## Iceweasel (Sep 17, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> The dog tried to kill me you asshole. And the dog was immediately put down.
> 
> I have had dogs for 60 years. My dad raised them when I was a child and I raised them when I moved out and got married. All of our dogs were extremely well behaved and obedient. NONE of our dogs ever showed any aggression towards any human beings.
> 
> ...


No, most people do fine with them. Effeminates and dopers should avoid them, that's the problem.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 17, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > The dog tried to kill me you asshole. And the dog was immediately put down.
> ...



Just what I expected from a turd like you. I am neither. Such utter ignorance.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 17, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
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You dismissed the dominant leader of the pack mentality I mentioned earlier. So you are a limp wristed lib, you should not own a powerful breed, it's as simple as that.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 17, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bfgrn said:
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They are animals, not humans. You may THINK you are a "dominant leader of the pack", but YOU don't get to decide. Buddy always listened to me and never showed the aggression that was unleashed THAT DAY. I never hit a dog or use physical methods on a dog.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 17, 2015)

ChrisL said:


> I thought I read somewhere that small dogs were actually responsible for most dog bites.  I could be wrong, but I thought I read that before.  I'll have to check it out.
> 
> Of course, the larger dogs do more damage, but if you think about it, some small dogs can be quite vicious but no one takes them seriously.  Lol.  I've been bit by a few small dogs actually.
> 
> However, they could probably hurt a child or baby.



Children and especially babies are vulnerable to any dog. I baby could be seriously hurt by a dog that had no viscous intent. 

When dogs "play" with each other, they bit each other on the snoot but they stop applying pressure when they feel bone or cartilage. A dog's snoot has little or no flesh. A babies face has a lot of flesh before a dog would hit bone or cartilage. By that time the child is maimed.


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## HUGGY (Sep 17, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Ha...Ha!!!  The pit bull GROWLED at the owner????  My pit wouldn't THINK of growling at me.  And I have NEVER physically disciplined her.  She's no shy dog at showing all comers who's boss when in protection mode either.  The pit GROWLED at the owner???  Somebody doesn't have a clue how to raise and handle a Pit Bull.
> ...



I need my Pitts because I am a guard on a property in one of the most dangerous areas in Seattle.  I sleep with my door wide open.  I can because my dogs alert me to intruders well ahead of the danger so I can get up and dressed to confront the intruders.  This happens on an average of half a dozen times a night(12AM-6AM).  I've been doing this for nearly 6 years.  The advantage for me is that I get to use the whole first floor to work on my projects as I invent things and do repairs professionally.  The two large buildings of the closed motel surround one of the most popular restaurants in North Seattle.  Part of my responsibility is to keep the whole area safe for the largely elderly clientele that frequent the dining establishment from the thugs, gang bangers, drug dealers and users, prostitutes and homeless.  My dogs do a phenomenal job sorting out who to alert me to and who are legitimate patrons.  I really couldn't do my job without the assistance of my Pits.  

The property I protect is surrounded partly by chain link fences.  I'm up on the third floor with a good view of the areas that need the most observance. 

My situation is not the typical family environment.  But I know Pit Bulls.  They know me.  I agree that they make a very dangerous all purpose pet.  Some of them have zero tolerance for other dogs, that is other dogs they do not believe are part of their immediate pack.  Some of them have incredible tolerance for other dogs...even yappy mutts that are attempting to start a fight.  Still when pushed or not they can do horrible damage in just a few seconds when that switch inside them says..."fight or flight" and I have never seen one choose the latter.

It is YOU that is the dumb fuck in that YOU put yourself in the position to get attacked.  You say YOUR dog attacked you?  YOU have/had no business owning a Pit Bull.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 17, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> Bfgrn said:
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Thank you for proving my case. The pit bull is not a family dog, it is not a "pet"...it is a lethal weapon that should be banned as a family dog.

Huggy, I really don't need to hear you rehash your life as loser. I heard it before...ad nauseam

Some people use their brain, some people are grunts...you are the latter...

I am not a "dumb fuck, you asshole. How did I make it through 60 years of living with dogs my whole life without any incident...

Simple answer...it was the dog...the breed. Buddy was treated well. Never abused. He was loved...HE is the one who "snapped" without any provocation or warning.


I will never know what caused HIM to snap...but I KNOW it was not how he was raised, treated or handled...


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## Bfgrn (Sep 18, 2015)

*'it's not the dog, it's the owner'*. 

There's one way to test that theory. Take any serious pit bull mauling and substitute other breeds. Take 85 yr old Rosie Humphreys for example. Rosie and her small poodle were killed by BRIAN PENNINGTON'S loose purebred american pit bull terrier during a routine daily walk. Now try substituting golden retriever in that sentence. How about dachshund? collie? Absurd, isn't it? If breed is truly irrelevant and the problem is truly irresponsible owners, then ANY breed of dog owned by BRIAN PENNINGTON would have yielded the same deadly result.







UPDATE 12/04/09: Police Chief John Nicholson states that the attacking dog was indeed a pit bull, an unaltered 3-year old male, with full registration. "The dog did not appear malnourished or abused and had no visible signs of mistreatment," he states. The dog did not slip its collar or break its chain either. According to Nicholson, the dog had gotten loose because the metal "D" ring on its collar failed. No criminal charges are expected to be filed.
Statement from Chief John Nicholson:








"The incident that occurred on November 30th at 235 Austin Avenue in Flora has devastated several families.





This was a very tragic event for not only the families involved, but the neighborhood a well.





Rosie L. Humphreys, 85, of 235 Austin Avenue Flora, Illinois was not only a citizen of Flora, but was so much more to so many.





After speaking to several neighbors and friends in this neighborhood, it became apparent that Rosie was everybody’s Grandmother within that area.





This is exactly why this case is so tragic, as Ms. Humphrey could have been anybody’s grandmother at any town USA.





Before I go into a timeline of the events of November 30th, I would like to clarify some mis-information, clear some dis-information and stop some on going rumors.



The particular breed of the dog involved in the attack was an American Pit Bull Terrier.





He was an un-neutered 3 year old male, with full registration.





The dog was purchased from a registered breeder at 6 months of age by Brian Pennington of Flora.



*There is no available information that it had ever been trained by its owner, Brian Pennington to attack or fight in any manner.*



The dog was Pennington’s family pet.



*The Flora Police Department or the Clay County Health Department Animal Control office have never received a single call as to this particular dog or the owners address at any time.





There has been no documented or reported cases, where this dog has displayed any aggression towards people or other dogs.



The dog did not appear malnourished or abused and had no visible signs of mistreatment.*





The dog did not slip its collar, break the chain or dig its way out of the kennel..."






"...All available evidence indicates that the factory installed metal "D" ring on the leather collar broke, which released the dog.





The metal "D" ring was of normal size for this collar type.





The metal appeared normal in wear and condition.





On December 1, 2009 a forensic autopsy was conducted by Dr. John Heidingsfelder at the Clay County Hospital.





The preliminary results showed the cause of death was due to Exsanguination, due to transected Carotid Artery, due to bite mark lacerations to the face, neck and extremities.



The manner of death was ruled accident.





After careful review of the applicable criminal statutes that could apply to this case and all physical evidence, witness statements, and background investigations, it was determined by the Clay County State’s Attorney’s Office that there will be no criminal charges filed at this time against Mr. Pennington."


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## Bfgrn (Sep 18, 2015)

*The lion tamer complex*
A behavioral trait not addressed in the Tufts study has been dubbed the "Lion Tamer Complex." Many pit bull owners believe they are superior dog owners and through this superiority can control their "game bred" pit bull by teaching discipline and love. While not all pit bulls are inherently vicious, their genetic history cannot be "loved" out of them either. As demonstrated by numerous press reports of pit bulls attacking their owners, this complex has serious and deadly ramifications.

A 2010 example of the Lion Tamer Complex involves four pit bulls that were declared "vicious" in a Placer County, California court -- effectively ordering the destruction of the dogs -- after seriously injuring teenager JoJo Kerschner. The pit bull owner, Daniel Coverston, appealed the ruling and requested that pit bull expert Tia Torres examine the dogs to determine which, if any, could be rehabilitated. During the examination by Torres, one of the pit bulls attacked and bit her.

"Torres said she then tried to loop Maui with her leash but 'he jumped up and bit my right hand.'

Torres said the dog then became frantic and it looked like he was going to bite another person. He continued to snap at Torres as they put him back in the kennel.

The other two dogs, Sherman and Ronin, 'had become extremely aggressive acting, hitting the kennel gates and barking hysterically,' Torres said."18

The second and final judge ordered three of the pit bulls destroyed, but that based on Torres' assessment, one was salvageable enough to be placed at her rescue on a trial basis.19 What's important to point out is that the so-called salvageable pit bull was legally declared "vicious" after attacking Kerschner. As opposed to the claim that human-aggressive pit bulls were "culled," Lion Tamers such at Torres target human-aggressive pit bulls to prove they can be "tamed."20

What is further disturbing is that pit bull rescue groups now covet dogs like Coverston's as they have found them to be effective promotional tools. For instance, James Harrison's pit bull, Patrone, who was "cured" of aggression in 20 days and Snaps from Seattle, who was transferred to a lifetime "sanctuary."21 Attempts to save vicious pit bulls in Louisiana and New Jersey22 resulted in animal control workers being attacked while its owner fought destruction orders.

*Related articles:*

2012 Dog Bite Fatality: 23-Year Old 'Dog Rescuer' Mauled to Death by Own Dogs
2012 Dog Bite Fatality: Pembroke 'Dog Rescuer' Killed by Rescued Pit Bulls

*Criminals choose pit bulls*
In 2006, the Journal of Interpersonal Violence published a study that focused on Ohio dog owners.23 The results showed that criminals are more likely to own vicious dogs. For the purposes of the study, researchers used agreed definitions of "vicious dogs" found within local ordinances. All ordinances included pit bulls because during this period Ohio state law automatically declared all pit bulls "vicious." The report is best summarized by one of its authors, Jaclyn Barnes:

*"Owners of vicious dogs who have been cited for failing to register a dog (or) failing to keep a dog confined on the premises ... are more than nine times more likely to have been convicted for a crime involving children, three times more likely to have been convicted of domestic violence ... and nearly eight times more likely to be charged with drug (crimes) than owners of low-risk licensed dogs."*24

*There is no denying that dangerous people are attracted to dangerous dogs. These same people also have a higher likelihood of being irresponsible owners. Pit bulls are the dog of choice for criminals and are often used in drug and gang-related activities.* Police officers are frequently forced to shoot dangerous pit bulls25 when serving search warrants as well. The combination of criminals and pit bulls exponentially increases the danger these dogs pose to communities.


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## HUGGY (Sep 18, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
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> > Bfgrn said:
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Thank you for noting that "I am a loser"...."a grunt".  My life has happened over many levels of status.  I rarely find it helpful to demean others for where they happen to be in their own journey.  We apparently differ in that way.  I thought we were talking about Pit Bulls in this discussion.

As far as who is or is not deserving of respect I'll leave YOUR status up to "Buddy".

I do like dogs more than many people.  Dogs have a natural sense of who can be trusted.  They are not fake.  People are fake.  Sometimes it is their strongest characteristic.  Some people like to blame everything but their own actions and thoughts for bad things that happen within their area of responsibility.

I am sorry for Buddy.  Something made him turn on you.  It was not nothing.  He saw something in you that caused him to attack.  It is sad that he had to make that choice for whatever reason.  But you claiming that you don't know what it was is a lie.  You know.  Buddy knew and had to pay for it with his life.  I guess that makes Buddy the loser.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 18, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
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If you don't like to be demeaned, don't demean...You are the one who started the insults, and didn't talk about pit bulls. You wanted to talk about me.

It was not something Buddy saw in me, you psychopath... it is something inherent in the breed.


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## HUGGY (Sep 18, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
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Really.  What makes me a psychopath?  Something inherent in the breed?

 Really?  Who else did Buddy attack in his life?  I agree that aggression can be inherent. But a dog that has never shown aggression in several years has no inherent aggression. SOMETHING provoked the attack.  You just don't want to tell the truth and share what really happened.  I've got a large female Pit that has aggressive characteristics.  I joke that she probably bit her mother on the way out of the womb.  THAT is inherent aggression.  NOT some out of the blue instance.  I'm not going to waste any more time telling you about the dogs.  You already know what I am talking about.  

After all I am the "loser" and Buddy is dead.


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## ChrisL (Sep 18, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> HUGGY said:
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Was he old?


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## ChrisL (Sep 18, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> *'it's not the dog, it's the owner'*.
> 
> There's one way to test that theory. Take any serious pit bull mauling and substitute other breeds. Take 85 yr old Rosie Humphreys for example. Rosie and her small poodle were killed by BRIAN PENNINGTON'S loose purebred american pit bull terrier during a routine daily walk. Now try substituting golden retriever in that sentence. How about dachshund? collie? Absurd, isn't it? If breed is truly irrelevant and the problem is truly irresponsible owners, then ANY breed of dog owned by BRIAN PENNINGTON would have yielded the same deadly result.
> 
> ...



You don't have to blatantly abuse an animal to teach it how to be an attack dog.  

Are you saying that this particular breed of dog has a mental defect?


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## Iceweasel (Sep 18, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Iceweasel said:
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> > Bfgrn said:
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Like I said, that proves why you had the problem. Good that you recognize they are animals, and as such can't reason with humans so like all humans with any sense they become the animal's master.

Your pussified world view prevents that because you think it's barbaric, yet small women can control large animals. Buddy didn't listen to you, he was wondering when you were going to take charge. Eventually, he figured out you were nothing but a happy meal.


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## Iceweasel (Sep 18, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> Children and especially babies are vulnerable to any dog. I baby could be seriously hurt by a dog that had no viscous intent.
> 
> When dogs "play" with each other, they bit each other on the snoot but they stop applying pressure when they feel bone or cartilage. A dog's snoot has little or no flesh. A babies face has a lot of flesh before a dog would hit bone or cartilage. By that time the child is maimed.


Every time you fire up your keyboard the world is exposed to even more idiocy. My dogs love children and would lick the skin off them if they could. No, dogs don't bite into babies faces in a playful way until they hit bone and know they've gone too far. You truly are a moron and have zero business owning a dog.


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## Asclepias (Sep 18, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
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You said he was a mixed breed. How can you say its the breed when you didnt even own one?


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## Bfgrn (Sep 18, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> Bfgrn said:
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Some people use their brain instead of emoting...it starts with *education*...

*Myth #1: It's the owner not the breed*
The outdated debate, "It's the owner, not the breed," has caused the pit bull problem to grow into a 30-year old problem. Designed to protect pit bull breeders and owners, the slogan ignores the genetic history of the breed and blames these horrific maulings -- inflicted by the pit bull's genetic "hold and shake" bite style -- on environmental factors. While environment plays a role in a pit bull's behavior, it is genetics that leaves pit bull victims with permanent and disfiguring injuries.

The pit bull's genetic traits are not in dispute. Many appellate courts agree that pit bulls pose a significant danger to society and can be regulated accordingly. *Some of the genetic traits courts have identified include: unpredictability of aggression, tenacity ("gameness" the refusal to give up a fight), high pain tolerance and the pit bull's "hold and shake" bite style. According to forensic medical studies, similar injuries have only been found elsewhere on victims of shark attacks.*

Purveyors of this myth also cannot account for the many instances in which pit bull owners and their family members are victimized by their pet dogs. *From 2005 to 2014, pit bulls killed 203 Americans, about one citizen every 18 days. Of these deaths, 53% involved a family member and a household pit bull. Notably, in the first 8 months of 2011, nearly half of those killed by a pit bull was its owner. *One victim was an "avid supporter" of Bad Rap, a recipient of Michael Vick's dogs.

*Myth #6: Pit bulls are not unpredictable*
Despite pro-pit bull claims that pit bulls are not unpredictable, the breed frequently attacks without provocation or warning. It is well documented by humane groups that to excel in dogfighting, pit bulls were selectively bred to conceal warning signals prior to an attack. For instance, a pit bull may not growl, bare its teeth or offer a direct stare before it strikes. Unlike all other dog breeds, pit bulls are also disrespectful of traditional signs of submission and appeasement.

According to expert Randall Lockwood, pit bulls are also liars. In a 2004 law enforcement training video, taped when Lockwood was vice president for research and educational outreach for the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), he shares the following story:

"Fighting dogs lie all the time. I experienced it first hand when I was investigating three pit bulls that killed a little boy in Georgia. When I went up to do an initial evaluation of the dog's behavior, the dog came up to the front of the fence, gave me a nice little tail wag and a "play bow" -- a little solicitation, a little greeting. As I got closer, he lunged for my face."

If a pit bull can fool an expert such as Lockwood, how can the average citizen anticipate a pit bull's future action? In a separate example, animal behavioral expert Peter Borchelt was sued after the pit bull he was training for a client "suddenly" attacked an ex-fireman. After encountering Gabriel Febbraio on the street and assuring him that the pit bull was friendly, the dog broke free from Borchelt and attacked Febbraio in the groin. The jury awarded Febbraio $1 million dollars.


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## Bfgrn (Sep 18, 2015)

*Triggers: What Prompts a Pit Bull to Attack?*
DogsBite.org - We've placed together a list of pit bull attack triggers, routine activities that launch a pit bull into a full-fledged attack. Due to selective breeding for the purposes of dogfighting -- pit bulls were artificially selected to attack unpredictably, to "hold on and shake," and to hide warning signals before an attack -- the pit bull breed often demonstrates "hair trigger" arousal. Pit bull owners often try to blame these mundane activities on explosive pit bull aggression.

Triggers that Prompt a Pit Bull to Attack:

being administered CPR
being an animal control officer
being a mail carrier
being a gas worker
being a landscaper
being a police officer
being a public works employee
being in a wheelchair
being pregnant 
borrowing a blender
breaking the ice out of a water bowl 
disciplining your dog
driving a vehicle
dropping a glass
falling down
feeding the dog
getting a rabies vaccination 
getting neutered
getting off a bus
getting out of your car 
getting the mail
getting the newspaper
handing someone a phone 
hanging decorations
having a dog on your lap
having a seizure
having a smoke
hearing an argument
hearing thunder 
holding a clipboard
holding a mailbag
holding a stuffed animal
hopping off a couch
jumping on a trampoline
letting your dog out
mowing your lawn
opening a car door
opening your front door
playing in your backyard
playing in your front yard
playing keep-a-way 
playing on a playground
playing on a swing set
playing with a tennis ball
reaching for your purse 
reading a bible 
remodeling your home
running from bees
saving a family from a fire 
seeing a cat run up tree
seeing a dog inside a house
seeing a horse
seeing a squirrel run up tree
seeing a leashed dog
seeing an unleashed dog
separation anxiety 
sitting on a bed
sitting on your spouse's lap
showing your spouse affection
sitting in a stroller
sitting in a tire swing
sitting in a wagon
sitting on your porch
slipping on ice
smelling "baby formula" 
standing in your backyard
standing in your garage
stepping on an ant pile
taking down a Christmas tree 
the act of bicycling
the act of driving
the act of gardening
the act of sex
the act of jogging
the act of sleeping
the ice bucket challenge 
the sound of clapping
the sound of screaming
taking out the trash
walking on a beach
walking down a path
walking down a road
walking down a sidewalk
walking a snack sized dog
undergoing dialysis 
unloading bags from a car
watching TV
waiting for a bus
wearing a ponytail


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## HUGGY (Sep 18, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Bfgrn said:
> ...



Ya...That reminds me of my female.  She approaches the fence when someone tries to make friends with her from the safety of the chain link enclosure.  She does exactly as described above with the tail wag and the little bow.  I try to tell people that she is just fishing for someone foolish enough to believe her little act.  Sometimes with people that want to believe she likes them she will sniff an extended hand.  But when you watch her behavior closely she extends her neck when offering these fake friendly appearances.  Her tail is extended vertically also even when wagging it which is a sign that the situation could go badly very quickly.

What one has to look for as an owner is submissive behavior mixed with affection displays.  The tail when wagging is more drooped and there is immediate obedience.  Pits that are the aggressive variety are not cuddly like many dogs are.  Even when displaying playfulness they are aggressive in a pushy way.  They will grab a toy and try to force it in your face hoping to engage you in a tug of war which is more akin to the natural trait of two pits tearing another animal to pieces working in tandem.

Still when the aggressive pit bull REALLY enjoys your company and respects your position as the undeniable alpha true affection does happen.  At that level there will never be the attack like depicted in the above examples.  I have no fear that Angel will turn on me.  When she acts "pushy" I simply assert my authority and tell her to go sit or lie down.  She responds immediately.  I don't have to assert my position in anger.

The kind of bond that determines the real nature of the dog/master relationship takes time with the Pit Bull dog.  Not minutes or days but weeks and months sometimes.

Anyone that calls themself a dog expert and thinks he or she will come into my fenced enclosure and win "Angel's" heart and respect in a few minutes is just a damned fool that is getting ready for a trip to the hospital.

Someone "could" and does come into my fence WITH MY EXPRESS PERMISSION and when that happens Angel concedes to my decision and will not act viscous.  She is still vigilant and walks the ALLOWED intruder around sometimes very closely and occasionally she decides that my judgement is in error and makes that call very clearly.  I simply tell the individual that Angel doesn't trust you so it is better that you stay outside of the fence for your own safety.  In that way I strengthen my bond with Angel as she really feels more appreciated.  Telling a Pit Bull "No" in all instances is a mistake.  They know more than we do about reading human beings.  They can read an individuals intentions in ways that we cannot.

A BOND with the aggressive type Pit Bull is not just a one way street.  There HAS to be a mutual respect. 

Some Pits will just not bond in any way with just anyone that comes along.  They will choose who they will accept as their master as much as you or I will accept them as part of "my" or "your" pack.  Once that natural bond has been established it can grow or fall apart depending on how things develop.  There is no guarantee that a human/dog relationship will establish the desired outcome.  I have given up on a couple of dogs in the past.  I just recognized that the dogs in question simply didn't like me at first for what ever reason and I felt I didn't have enough time to invest in these animals.  They were both rescues from the pound.  I hate it when that happens and no longer attempt to rescue potentially dangerous dogs that have had a bad life.

Angel is a rescue of sorts but I have known her since she was a puppy and she took to me even then so when she became available 4 years ago at age two I was eager to make her part of my home.  Her first two years were rather traumatic for her and her owners.  They were my friends and it just made sense for me to take over in her care.  I still visit my friends with Angel in tow and the first thing she does upon entry to their condo is piss in the middle of the living room floor then go back to the bedroom hall and take a big shit.  This happens EVERY time we visit.  Still she shows obvious affection for these people but then there is the defecating thing which is hard to explain.  She wouldn't DREAM of relieving herself inside of our house.






This is "Angel"  a 70 lb female un neutered blue Pit Bull


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## Iceweasel (Sep 19, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> *Triggers: What Prompts a Pit Bull to Attack?*
> DogsBite.org - We've placed together a list of pit bull attack triggers, routine activities that launch a pit bull into a full-fledged attack.


Bullshit. Anyone with half a brain can spot the hysteria in that list. Most people with Pits don't have that problem, it's people like you who should never own anything more formidable than a gerbil that is the problem.


----------



## Bfgrn (Sep 19, 2015)

Iceweasel said:


> Bullshit. Anyone with half a brain can spot the hysteria in that list. Most people with Pits don't have that problem, it's people like you who should never own anything more formidable than a gerbil that is the problem.



I found a new avatar for you asshole...


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## Bfgrn (Sep 19, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> Ya...That reminds me of my female.  She approaches the fence when someone tries to make friends with her from the safety of the chain link enclosure.  She does exactly as described above with the tail wag and the little bow.  I try to tell people that she is just fishing for someone foolish enough to believe her little act.  Sometimes with people that want to believe she likes them she will sniff an extended hand.  But when you watch her behavior closely she extends her neck when offering these fake friendly appearances.  Her tail is extended vertically also even when wagging it which is a sign that the situation could go badly very quickly.
> 
> What one has to look for as an owner is submissive behavior mixed with affection displays.  The tail when wagging is more drooped and there is immediate obedience.  Pits that are the aggressive variety are not cuddly like many dogs are.  Even when displaying playfulness they are aggressive in a pushy way.  They will grab a toy and try to force it in your face hoping to engage you in a tug of war which is more akin to the natural trait of two pits tearing another animal to pieces working in tandem.
> 
> ...



Your posts are absolute proof that pit bulls are not family pets...

And as confident as you are that Angel's aggression will never be directed at you...

Below is a list of Pit Bull owners killed or seriously wounded by their own animals…The list does not include children of Pit Bull owners…Those may be seen Here. Notice how many incidents where first responders must save the Pit Bull owner during a prolonged, berserk mauling…A suggested remedy is a “Darla’s Law” where Pit owner reimburses the tax payer for labor, fuel, damaged equipment and ammunition expenditures.

When adopting or buying a new dog, keep these funerals and life changing shreddings in mind when the Pit pushers try to guilt you into taking a pittie home. Rest assured, they will be AWOL when the six figure medical bills are due!

PIT-DARWINICIDES (Fatalities)

May 2012, Santa Fe, NM; Victim's son: My dad loved this dog more than me

Dec 2011, Burnettsville, IN; 58 year old Joseph D. Hines killed by his dog. Last of 7 US Pit Bull owners killed by their animals in 2011. 

Sep 2011, Philadelphia, PA; 50 year old Carmen Ramos killed by her Pit Bulls 

 July 2011, South Africa; 21 year old Jason Waverly killed by his own Pit Bulls

July 2011, Spotsylvania County, VA; Man killed by his own Pit Bull 

July 2011, Pacifica, CA; BADRAP supporter Darla Napora and her unborn baby killed by “Gunner” Gunner is shot by police and his remains are buried with the victim

 Aug 2011, Tucson, AZ; 61 year old Michael Cook, mauled by his Pit Bull dies three weeks later

June 2005; Pit Bull owner sets the record straight with his comment number 9016 on this Anti-BSL Petition: Matt Lebold said 06/08/05, 9:19 pm (verified)Be responsible. Tell the truth about the breed. Stop using sensationalism and scare tactics to sell your stories
UPDATE: May 2011; Matt is found dead in his apartment from a drug overdose. His Pit Bull had eaten parts of his face, neck and chest. *Note: You Can’t Make This Stuff Up!

Jan 2011, Colusa, CA; 51 year old Linda Leal killed by her Pit mix 

March 2011, San Bernadino, CA; 47 year old Jennie Erquaia killed by her own Pit Bull

 Dec 2010, Riverside, CA; two months after being mauled by the family Pit Bull, 67 year old Edward Mitchell succumbs to his injuries 

Oct 2010, Williamburg, MO; 84 year old Rev John Reynolds killed by 17 breeding Pit Bulls. Dogs not seized by authorities 

Sep 2010, McMinn County, TN; 85 year old Mattie Daugherty killed by her 9 year old Pit Bull 

Jan 2010, Chicago, IL; 57 year old Johnny Wilson killed by family breeding Pits

Dec 2009, Bangkok, Thailand; Pit Bull kills it’s 71 year old owner 

Nov 2009, Peru; Family pit Bull goes berserk, kills its 85 year old owner 

Aug 2009, Buenos Aires, Argentina; Pit Bull Murders it’s Master

June 2009; San Jose, CA; This Pit Bull pulled Momma into theTrain

April 2009, Thailand; 37 year old woman mauled to death as she let‘s family Pit Bulls out of their cages

Jan 2009, Lake Charles, LA; 24 year old Kelli Chapman killed by her family Pit Bulls that she raised from pups 

May 2008, Salerno Italy; Paola Palmieri,61, torn to pieces by her Pit Bull *Note: How heartwarming…

 Nov 2008, South Africa; Grace Page mauled to death by her own two Pit Bulls, despite efforts of neighbors trying to save her, rescuers even poured boiling water on her dogs and they kept a maulin‘

 Dec 2008, Roubidoux, CA; 60 year old Pit Bull breeder Gerald Adelmund killed by his maulspawners

July 2007, Republic of the Philippines; 2 year old toddler mauled and her babysitting Pit Grannie killed by disloyal family Pit Bull. It took authorities 5 minutes to get the Pit Bull to release it‘s dead owner. *Note Pit Bulls can really get “attached“ to their owners…

April 2007, Prague, Czech Republic; Woman killed by her own Staffordshredder

Aug 2007, Potstenje, Czech Republic; Pit Bull kills its Master

Oct 2007, FL; Tina Marie Canterbury killed by her two Pit Bulls 

 May 2006, Lusby, MD; Family breeding Pit Bulls kill Raymond Tomco 

July 2006, WV; 25 year old Brandon Coleman killed in his apartment by his Pit Bull 

 May 2005, ST Louis, MO; 56 year old Lorinze Reddings killed by his two Pit Bulls

 Nov 2003, South Africa; Pit Bull Breeder Charles Murray killed by his Pit Bulls

 May 2003, London, UK; In the UK’s first DBRF in 9 years, 45 year old George Dinham killed by his own Staffordshire Bull Terrier

Dec 2002, Bergen County, NJ; 80 year old woman killed by pet Pit Bulls, clawed and bitten over 80 percent of her body

July 2002, Splendora, TX; Pit Breeder Dorothy Carter killed by her Maulspawners 

Oct 2001, Riga, Latvia; American Staffie owner dies of heart attack while trying to rescue a friend from his animal and it turns on him

July 1997, Croatia, Staffy kills its 66 year old owner 

Dec 1996, Bronx, NY; 80 year old Frank Camis killed by his Pit Bulls 

 August 1994, Moscow Russia; Bull Terrier kills its sleeping master

Nov 1990, Indianapolis IN; Pit owner dies from heart attack when trying to help meter reader being attacked by his Pit Bull* Note: If you are going to own one of these things please be in shape! 

Sep 1985, Edgemere, MD; 57 year old Rebecca Puckett mauled to death by her two Pit Bulls 

May 1931, Chicago, IL; Mary Watson killed over a bone 

Feb 1907, Mauladelphia, PA; Mrs Lena Smith is killed by her own Bulldog…Note…This is before the dog fighters concocted the “American Pit Bull Terrier“ monicker

Honorable mentions: Mere maulings, scalpings and amputations



2011 Brazil; Police shot this man's pit bull 5 times 

June 2012, Izmir, Turkey; Pit Bull owner bludgeons his dog to death after it attacks him and two other people. All three were hospitalized

 May 2012, Stockton, CA; Pit Bull attacks mother on the neck and son on the arm…Idiotic A/C officer states attacks on family members are “rare” despite 3 California Pit Owners being killed by their dogs in 2011 alone

May 2012, Roselle, IL: Police taser Pit Bull attacking its owners. Woman takes a ride in the Meatwagon for emergency surgery

May 2012, Pottsville, PA; A 48 yr old man and a 34 yr old woman took a lifeflight helicopter after their pibbles got into a fight and redirected on them.

May 2012, Las Cruces, NM; Grandmother attacked and accidentally shot by neighbor in Tanzanian-like rescue attempt during her Granddaughter’s fatal pit bull mauling

April 2012, Chicago, IL; After long time Pit Nutter Bill Less-Nose-Ski has his nose bitten off by Friend’s Pit Bull that had previously attacked his own dogs, he gives a sermon about not blaming the breed from behind his disfigurement concealment mask. Bill also peddles his new medical fund, since his friend is between jobs and doesn’t have a pot to pee in/a>

April 2012; Another “Reformed Pit Owner” comments: "I had a pitbull and I raised him from a puppy. me and him lived happily together for 3 years and he was the sweetest thing you'd ever know... but he bit me one day at a dog park while he engaged into a fight with another dog. I tried to pull him off and he snapped and dug his teeth into my arm... he is now in quarantine and will be put down. my heart aches, but these breeds become more agressive as they age. he was neutered and had all his shots up to date. I miss him terribly but I cannot trust him ever again. I won't be owning another pitbull... I just can't handle it emotionally. they aren't bad dogs at all. they just need to be kept away from other animals and live alone with the owner."

April 2012, Holland, MI; Neighbors rescue Pit Bull Owner from himself

April 2012, Huntley, IL; Recently adopted out Pit mix attacks neighbor’s dog, new owner hospitalized trying to separate them 

April 2012, Australia; 22 year old Pit owner burst into hotel lobby with berserker in tow, screaming and begging for help 

April 2012, Elizabeth, NJ; Police shoot adopted Pit Bull that had bitten owner 20 times during savaging episode

March 2012, Pittsburgh, PA; “There was blood everywhere“ after new Pit owner gives his animal a treat, then takes it away

 March 2012, Gloversville, NY; Woman attacked inside Vet's office while euthanizing her adopted Pit Bull for aggression/dangerousness issues

 March 2012, Staten Island, NY; Probation officer from Staten Island kills her pit bull to save herself

March 2012, Newark, NJ; Mother and infant attacked by family Pit Bull 

Mar 2012, Celina, OH; 52 year old Pit breeder attacked by his own breeding Pit Bulls and “cubs” 

Feb 2012, Detroit-Maul City; Idiot adopts two Pit Bulls for home protection which turn on her and maul her. After she calls 911 for Police rescue, she complains when Police shoot one of them. Never enough mauling victims and Tax Payer costs for the Pit Community!

 Feb 2012, Australia; Boy, 6, and grandmother mauled in bull terrier dog attack

Jan 2012, Westfield, MA; Pit owning Babysitter, toddler and responding Police Officer bitten by stupid Pit Bull

 Jan 2012, Dayton OH; Pit Bull mauls its owner during family argument

 Jan 2012, Springfield, MA; 51-year-old Springfield woman mauled by her own 2 pit bulls as she walked them down street in Forest Park neighborhood

Jan 2012, Santaquin, UT; Man shoots wife while trying to protect family from dog during driving attack

April 2011, Freeport, IL; 19 year old man begs Police to shoot his own Pit Bull which lovingly attached itself to his arm

Oct 2011, Lowell, MA; Two Pit Bulls adopted out by the MSPCA go onto to attack their owners, producing a taxpayer funded 911 response. The two are euthanized during “Pit Bull Awareness Week” . F-Minus in Temperment Testing assigned to MSPCA

Dec 2011, Lorain ,OH; ‘He wanted to kill me:' Woman doesn’t know why dog turned on her 

Dec 2011, Neighbors, firefighters save woman being attacked by her own Pit Bull 

Dec 2011, Phoenix man kills own dog after it attacks him, other dog 

Nov 2011, Rockford, IL; Pit Nutter in critical condition after being “loved on” by her two pitties

Nov 2011, Waukesha, WI; 52 year old woman nearly killed by her Pit Bull. A/C Director pulls a Baghdad Bob by exclaiming “Pit Bull Attacks are Rare” despite Pitties being leading biter in the city by a mile…Producing 6 times more bites than the next breed!

 Nov 2011, East Toledo, OH; Pit owners attacked by own animal on city street, cause car crash

Oct 2011, Ottawa, Canada; Cops shoot dogs after owner attacked 

Oct 2011, Bullitt Co, KY; Dog attack leaves man in critical condition

Oct 2011; Pit bull shot by Phoenix police after attacking owner

Dec 2011, Long Island, NY; Mother uses knife therapy to stop Pit attacking her family

Oct 2011, Youngstown, OH; Woman hospitalized after being attacked by her Pit Bull

Oct 2011, Brawley, CA; Police kill pit bull after it attacked its owner

 Oct 2011, Haverhill, MA; Police shoot Pit Bull as it savages owner‘s head

Aug 2011, Beaufort Co, SC; Man gets mangled saving his son from family Pit Bull attack

Aug 2011, Tucson AZ; 60 year old man receives life threatening wounds when his Pit Bull attacks

Aug 2011, UK; Man severely bitten in the face by his Staffy

July 2011 Kennebec, ME; Boy shoots Pit Bull to save family members 

July 2011, Jonesboro, AR; Woman in ICU after her Pit Bull mauls her

April 2011, Ontario, Canada; Pit bull turns on its owner

Apr 2011, Dartmouth, RI; Pit bull mauls Dartmouth owner

 Apr 2011, Ontario, CA; After ordering Pit Bull to attack neighbor the animal turns on its owner

March 2011, Durban, South Africa; 75 year old Pit owner extensively mauled and “de-gloved” 

March, 2011, Lake Worth, FL; Pit Breeder’s trailer empire is flipped upside down when she is mauled by her male Pit Bull that fathered the puppies she was going to peddle

March 2011, Chattanooga, TN; Family argument triggers Pit Bull into the Red Zone, Mother and daughter hospitalized 

 Feb 2011, Chattanooga TN; Woman attacked by pit-bull rushed back to the hospital

 Feb 2011, Van Nuys, CA; Van Nuys man seriously injured when attacked by his 2 pit bulls 

Jan 2011, Venice Beach, CA; Local taxpayers get bitten in the throat with massive first responder costs…Darla’s Law NOW!!!

 Jan 2011, Las Vegas NV; Pit Bull berserks on it’s family, owner shoots it.

 Dec 2010, Brookline, PA; Pit Bull shot by neighbor after turning on its owner

Oct 2010, Riverside CA; Man almost killed by his Pit Bull 

Aug 2010, Calgary CA; American Staffordshredder goes berserk on entire family 

Jun 2010; Eau Claire, WI; Couple attacked by their own Pit Bull 

May 2010, Taraunga, New Zealand; 34 year old man “horrifically mauled” by his Pit Bulls that ended up being shot by police

May 2010, Hesston, KS; Woman mauled by her illegal Pit Bull 

 May 2010, Jeanette PA; Pit Bull owner takes a lifeflight

 May 2010, Lowell, MA; Neighbors breakdown fence to rescue man being mauled by his two Pit Bulls

 May 2010; Preston , CT; After responding to a call where a Pit Bull was attacking its owner, A/C Officer Patty Daniels is attacked and injured while leading the animal out to the A/C truck. Police pump lead into the disloyal mauler

 May 2010, Australian Pit Bull owner loses arm to sweet Rocky

 May 2010, Andover MA; Husband stabs family Pit Bull to death when it attacks wife

 May 2010. San Antonio, TX; Pit Bull attacks drunk husband who was arguing with wife

 April 2010, Crafton Heights, PA; Newly adopted Pit Bull becomes enraged when new owner gives him a treat then takes it away. A/C Officer states “There was blood everywhere“

Mar 2010, Clovis NM; Pit Breeder loses finger saving his daughter 

March 2010, Philadelhia, PA; 52 year old woman nearly loses hand when attacked by her wigglebutt 

Mar 2010, Spring Hill FL; Pit Bull owner searching for answers after mauling

Feb 2010, Sydney, Australia; Police and paramedics have to respond when Staffordshredder turns on entire family. The disloyal freak show bit and broke a 12 year old Girl‘s arm

Feb 2010. Mesa, AZ; Teenager severely bitten in the face by family Pit Bull 

Feb 2010, Philadelphia, PA; a 52-year old woman nearly lost her hand when her pet pit bull latched onto her wrist and refused to let her go.

Feb 2010, Preston, CT; State Troopers killed a pit bull that attacked its owner and the ACO

Feb 2010, Sommerville, NJ; Two Pit Bull owners require medical treatment after their dogs get into a “scuffle” 

Feb 2009, Elkhart, IN; Man nearly loses arm after his Pit Bull mauls him 

 Feb 2010 New Zealand; Pit Owner nearly killed by his Pit Bull

Feb 2010, Hoboken, NJ; After Pit Bull “Giant“ attacks two people in an apartment, his 26 year old female owner ignores repeated Police warnings not to enter the apartment. The young Caesar Milan wannabe is subsequently mauled and hospitalized

2009, Calgary, CA; Pit Bull attacks owners then Police up in Pit Bull utopian Calgary. Animal tasered three times before it is subdued

Dec 2009, Brownsville, FL; 31 year old Pit owner severely bitten on the hands by his doggie. Police finding him lying on the floor

Dec 2009, Yadkinville, NC; Family Pit Bull attacks entire family 

Dec 2009, Washington DC; Orlando Romero's pit/rott mix attacked him when he told his dog to get out of the room

 Nov 2009, Houston TX; family Pit Bull puts owner onto life flight helicopter

Oct 2009, Gathersburg, MD; Pit Bull attacks three members of its family

 Oct 2009, New Haven, CT; Severely mauled Pit owner asks “Am I another Statistic?”

 Oct 2009, Washington DC; Mother uses “knife therapy” to correct her Pit Bull‘s “mauling issue“

Oct 2009, Woodbury, MN; Man mauled by his gripper as he watched tv

 Sep 2009, FL; Woman mauled by her rehabilitated Pit mix 

Sep 2009, Montgomery County, TX; 3 year old Lifeflighted to the ICU after spending the day at her Pit Breeding Auntie’s home. Pit-Auntie gets attacked also

Sep 2009, Paradise Township, PA; Police shoot pet Pit Bull after 48 year old owner found lying in a pool of blood with hand severed. Poured into the Meatwagon for a stay in the ICU

Sep 2009, Pimaulus County, FL; Arm Severed: "I fired a warning round into the ground. The dog looked at me, went right back to chewing her," Neighbor said.

Aug 2009, North Port, FL; Family Pit bull puts owner on life flight helicopter ride, wife shoots the animal to save him 

 June 2009, After Niece is scalped during family Barbeque , Pit Bull owner expresses “I recommend not having a pit bull, whether the dog is friendly or not,” a grieving Cruz said. “They will turn on you.”

May 2009, Mauladephia, PA; 43 year old idiot has to be rescued by police after being mauled by her daughter‘s Pit Bull. She was taking care of the manbiter because it had bitten one of her Daughter‘s neighbors and they were looking for a new home to place it in. *Note…Pit Bulls are safer than other breeds because dogfighters culled manbiters...Liars ALL!

March 2009, New Zealand; Pit scalps 22 year old Kiwi owner during family argument attack

March 2009, San Antonio TX, Grandmother’s Pit Bulls break down baby gate and maul toddler Izaiah Gregory Cox to death. Baby sitting Pit-Grannie tries stabbing them off, but they turn on her

March 2009, Calgary, CA; Attacked owner wants pit-bull put down 

 April 2009, South Africa; Security saves couple being mauled by their Pit Bull by shooting the animal

April 2009, Houston Pit owner, put into the ICU by her wigglebutt 

2009 Ontario man mauled by his own Pit Bull which was shot and killed by police 

Mar 2009, Puyallup, WA; Couple claims they were attacked by mountain lion, Fish and Wildlife officials determine it was their Pit Bull 

Feb 2009, Elkhart, IN; Man nearly loses arm after his Pit Bull mauls him 

Feb 2009, Omaha, NE; Mauled Pit Owner Lorrie Ellis begs police to shoot her unlicensed Pit Bull off of her 

Nov 2008, Royal Oaks, MI; Three Pit Bulls turn on family and they call 911 for Police rescue. After Police shoot the disloyal beasts they threaten to sue!

Oct 2008, New Zealand; Woman hospitalized after being mauled by her Pit Bull 

Sep 2008, Evansville IN: Tony Burden begs Police to shoot family Pit Bull “Brutus” during mauling

Washington County, TN; Trailer dwelling Pit Granny suffers more than two dozen puncture wounds fighting the family Pit Bull off of her 1 year old Granddaughter

 July 2008, Amity Township PA; “Amity means friendship“

Texas Vet Clinic implements Pit Bull Spay Neuter Policy after vet tech is mauled twice by her Pit Bull 

May 2008, Dallas , TX; 3 year old girl horribly mauled when two Pit Bulls barge into the bathroom and maul her and her Pit-Auntie while she was getting a bath. ANOTHER NOTE TO SELF: Never use Crystal Owner as a Babysitter, Pit Bulls were banned in her trailer park but she knew better ...Just a guess, but she probably knew better than to have insurance too

June 2008, Indiana; Annette Williams loses both arms after her Pit Bull “bites“ her

April 2008, Spokane, WA; Pit Owner has arm mutilated

April 2008, Elyria, OH; Pit Bull Mauls its owner 

 March 2008, Toledo, OH; Pit Peddler gets mauled by her breeding Pits…Just makin’ a little money selling family dogs!

Jan 2007, Kennett. MO; 54 year old man put into the ICU by his Pit Bull on New Years Day

Aug 2007, Aurora CO; Two women who though they were smarter than public safety officials are mauled by illegal Pit Bull during babysitting operation.

May 2007, Haverhill MA; Samantha Gaylord’s Pit Bull Leo attacks her and has to be shot by police 

June 2007, Deltona, FL; Pit Bull breeder Estrella Macias has thumb nearly severed trying to save the life of her sister who was being scalped and killed by sweet maulspawner “Tas“

July 2007, Omaha, NE; Omaha woman hospitalized after being attacked by her own dogs in her own home

Sept 2007, Gaitherburg, MD; Pregnant Pit Nutter is walking her dogs when she comes across another dog owner which causes her two pitties to attack each other. She tried to intervene and her arm was shredded. When Police arrived, the two pitties were still going at it, so they fed them lead sandwiches/a>

Oct 2007, Maultimore, MD; After it takes ten minutes for experienced Pit Bull owner Kenneth Garrison to separate Pit Bull “Chocolate“ from his one year old Son‘s face he utters…“I was always one that said pits are fine and they’re only mean if you train them to be that way,” Garrison said. “This thing made a liar out of me.”

March 2006, Cary, Il; Pit owner Scott Sword describes the “all out fight” trying to save 10 year old boy being mauled by his three Pit Bulls

 Sep 2006, Abilene, TX; West Texas; Woman Loses Both Arms After Pit Bull Mauling

June 2006, Sonoma, CA; Man mauled by his own Pit Bull. Son grabs shotgun and blows it away * You know what they say,,,”The family that gets mauled together, stays together“…

June 2006, Salt Lake City, UT; Pit Perp tries flees police in his car…As the chase went down a windy, bumpy dirt road, the Pit Bull started to get tossed around and eventually became so agitated that he bit his owner in the face, chomping off part of his Owner’s nose and causing him to stop the car.

June 2006, Port Norris, NJ; 24 year old babysitter Kristi Norris gets bull baited by her own Pit Bull while babysitting two kids…Maybe it had never seen kids before?!?

Oct 2005, Long Beach CA; 23 year old woman sustains severe head mauling by her Pit Bull 

June 2005, Rohnert Park, CA; Pit Bull owner hospitalized with multiple bites to his right hand and arm and to his face after his Pittie gets into a scuffle with another dog

June 2005, San Jose, CA; Woman recovering from Pit Bull attack 

 Jun 2005, Rockford, IL; 22 year old woman has to stab one of her Pits when breaking up a “scuffle” and it turns on her

 June 2005 Rohnert Park, CA; 66 year old woman seriously mauled trying to stop her Pit Bull that was attacking her son

 Aug 2004 Council Bluffs, NE; Police shoot Pit Bull attacking it‘s owner

July 2004, Murphysboro, IL; Pit Granny suffers serious bite wound to the arm when her defective Nannydog goes after her Granddaughter

April, 2004, Jundiai, Brazil; 3 family members attacked by disloyal family Pit Bull. 8 year old Launa da Silva Oliveira dies after a week on life support. Launa’s organs were donated after they decided to pull the plug.

March 2003, UK; Police storm apartment with riot shields so EMS crew can load mauled Staffy owner into the Meatwagon

 Aug 2003, Palm Beach, FL, Pit Nutter takes a Lifeflight after she is mauled about the arms and neck after breaking up a Pit-scuffle in her house

Oct 2003, Dallas, TX; Pit owner is attacked while rescuing schoolchildren being mauled by his Pit Bull at a bus stop. Has to retrieve firearm and shoot his own dog to stop the attack

 Oct 2003 San Antonio, TX; Retired police officer saves his neighbor being mauled by his family Pit Bull

 Dec 2003, Keene, NH; After valiantly fighting “The Man“ all the way to the State Supreme Court to save his Pit Bulls from euthanization, 23 year old Mathew Beemis is mauled by them…*You can‘t make this stuff up!

 Oct 2001. Pittsburgh, PA; 36 year old Patricia Halter scalped by her own Pit bull

Jan 2000, Aurora, IL; 24 year old Pit owner taken to the hospital after breaking up “a scuffle” between her dogs . Suffered wounds to hands and legs

April 2000, Westminster, CA; 53 year old Pit Bull owner found unconscious and bleeding by her husband after her two wiggle butts get into “scuffle”

May 2000, Reading, PA; Police shoot Pit Bull after it attacks his owner and severs his thumb

Sep 2000, Philadelphia, PA; Two pit bulls turned on their family yesterday, authorities said, mauling a 28-year-old Wissinoming woman and her 10-year-old daughter before being shot and killed by police.

April 1998, Canton, OH; FAMILY PIT BULL MAULS WIFE OF OHIO DOG WARDEN

May 1996, New York City, 27 year old Tammy Jenkins is mauled by her 16 month old Pit Bull “Rage” in a public park. Police rescue her and shoot the beast

March 1995, Tampa, FL; 67 year old Florence Bigbie severely attacked by her family Pittie while sleeping. * Note: See Safety Tips Below

Aug 1995, Ft Lauderdale, FL; When Pit Breeder succumbs to epileptic seizure, heroic Pit Bull leaps into action by mauling him

March 1994, Chicago, IL; Couple severely bitten about the arms during another “Argument Mauling“ * Note: May need to create Pit Bull safety rule number 7: To avoid being treated like another matchdog, never your raise voice and always walk on egg shells around your Pit Bull

Sep 1994, Ontario, Canada; After part of a 6 year old Girl‘s nose is bitten off by a loose previously Dangerously Declared Pit Bull, a passerby yells at the Pit Bull owner. Feeling disrespected, the owner starts fighting the man. When the Owner’s Nutter-Girlfriend tries to intervene, she gets bitten. *Note: The Springer show has nothing on these Nutters!

Oct 1991, Waterloo, IA; Police shoot Pit Bull so paramedics can haul mauled Pit Bull owner out to the Meatwagon

Oct 1990, Mckinney, TX; Granny is mauled by beloved fur babies trying in vain to save her 18 month old granddaughter from same beloved fur babies

 June 1989, Spokane, WA; Pit Bull attacks mailman, then mauls its owner

Feb 1988, British Columbia, Canada; Not really an owner mauling but Darwinistic nonetheless.. Pit Nutter Rhonda MacFarland self-mutilates by showing up to her sentencing hearing 15 minutes late and pissing off the Judge. Her two Pitties mauled a 71 year old neighbor so badly that she lost 1/3 of her blood

April 1987, Dayton, OH; Pit owner Joetta Darmstadter released after a week in the hospital. She was severely bitten by her pit bull trying to save Walter Eckman who was fatally mauled

Aug 1987, Morgantown, WV; In another bizarre driving attack, Patricia Hollis gets bitten 35 times by “Lord Tugginton”

 April 1987, Dayton OH; Shop Owner attacked by Pit Bull guard dog

Feb 1987, Lynn, MA; 61 year old Pit owner hospitalized with severe bites to face and legs 

 Mar 1986, Hollywood, FL; Pit Bull attacks its second owner in a month 

April 1985, FL; 25 year old woman mauled by Pit Bull she raised from a pup 

Jan 1985, Boston, MA; 72 year old woman bitten 40 times by her Pit Mix 

Jan 1980,Miami, FL; Ethel Tiggs savaged and almost killed by her Pit Bulls 

Sep 1954, Portland OR; Husband kills Staffy with hammer when it bull baits wife, who lost both ears 

Sep 1951, NY City; Dog attacks master, terrorizes hundreds

May 1938, Australia; Ruby MacAdam badly lacerated by her “Bulldog” trying to save her mother from the beast

Aug 1913, Ny City; Opera Prima Donna nearly killed by dog

 July 1913, Williamsburg, NY; Louise Eichorn gets latched onto and rescued by a Police Officer

 May 1903, Syracuse, NY; Mrs Thomas Leonard gets bull baited on her front porch 

May 1900, Ny City; Delia Robinson attacked by her Bulldog, “May lose Arm“

April 1896, NYC; Henry Balzar’s Prized Fighting bulldog “Terror” has to be shot to release his face 

 April, 1894, Vineland, NJ; The entire Kohler family is mauled by their bulldog


* Note to the Producers of Animal Planet’s “Fatal Attractions” show…There is enough material here to fill several seasons!


The takeaway from this should be, whenever a Pit Bull owner assures you that Pit Bulls “Are the most loyalest dogs because dog fighters created them”, you should show them this piece and tell them to enjoying sleeping with one eye open….

YOU CAN’T MAKE THIS STUFF UP!


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## featherlite (Sep 19, 2015)

HUGGY said:


> Bfgrn said:
> 
> 
> > HUGGY said:
> ...



I know of a couple bad incidents, one happened at work because of an arrogant inexperienced fool. One happened because humans cant control everything.

You know your stuff Huggy. She is a BEAUTIFUL Dog.


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## HUGGY (Sep 19, 2015)

Bfgrn said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> > Ya...That reminds me of my female.  She approaches the fence when someone tries to make friends with her from the safety of the chain link enclosure.  She does exactly as described above with the tail wag and the little bow.  I try to tell people that she is just fishing for someone foolish enough to believe her little act.  Sometimes with people that want to believe she likes them she will sniff an extended hand.  But when you watch her behavior closely she extends her neck when offering these fake friendly appearances.  Her tail is extended vertically also even when wagging it which is a sign that the situation could go badly very quickly.
> ...



All too true and horrible incidents.

One thing I haven't covered because I just didn't think of it frankly..  I was too busy explaining that not everyone..in fact hardly ANYONE has the need or the temperament to have a Pit Bull in their custody.

Let's cover the attack that some of you are so certain will come eventually.

I'm not being glib.  But anyway here is what you do:

If ANY large dog attacks you or someone you love or want to defend from the dog the LAST thing you can do is beat the dog at what they are best equipped to defnd themselves from.  You cannot hit or kick a Pit and stop the attack.  You cannot grab the dog and pull on it.

Summon up ALL your courage and immediately face the animal and get up close to the mouth.  I know...I know..that's where the teeth are.  IGNORE the teeth.  Take your hand and close the fingers into a spear shape and RAM your hand as far and deep down into the dog's mouth and throat.  Just keep it there.  The dog will start choking immediately.  The dog's teeth are useless at this time.  YOU WILL NOT GET BIT doing this.  It WILL save both you and the dog from further injury.  If you feel it necessary you can easily maintain this position until the dog passes out from lack of air.

I have had to do this a couple of times with a 132 lb Blue Dobie I had 30 years ago.  I know this sounds crazy to go right into the teeth like that with your hand but I GUARANTEE it is an immediate and SAFE way to stop ANY large viscous dog attack in it's tracks.

You cannot be wishy washy using this technique.  If you waste any time getting past the teeth you can lose your fingers.

The snapping dogs jaw will assist you in forcing your hand down it's throat and trust me you will not get injured as the least amount of pressure the dog can generate is when their jaw is wide open.

No one needed to be injured in the above list of attacks.  If those people had done what I just offered there would have been zero deaths and very few injuries.  Even a child can do this trick.

Oh...Oh!  I forgot another thing involving this trick.  Before my 125 lb red nose Pit Bull got cancer and died over his life he choked on bones TWICE.  Both times I happened to be nearby and did exactly the same technique to remove the stuck bones from his throat.  I just literally stuck my hand down his throat until I could feel the bone then grabbed it with my finger tips and pulled it out.  I did this about a year ago and about three years ago. I received zero damage to my hands in either bone extraction nor the times I had to stop my Dobie from biting me.


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