# Do You Believe??



## Kat

Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.

Men = person...so you know.


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## Kat

I most definitely do.


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## SYTFE

Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise


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## owebo

SYTFE said:


> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise


And you fascist democrats all chant:

4 legs good; two legs better.......


And to the OP, yes, all men are created equal.....


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## aaronleland

Except for the Negros and Jews of course.


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## yiostheoy

Some people are really big.

Some people are really small.

Some people are really strong.

Some people are really weak.

Some people are really smart.

Some people are really stupid.

Some people are really brave.

Some people are really cowardly.

Some people are lily white.

Some people are black as coal.

And all people are some kind of mixture of all of these or somewhere in between.

But when all is said and done, Samuel Colt made all people who are brave enough to pick up a gun and use it to be equal to anyone else who will.  These are called sheepdogs and wolves.

The ones who will not are called sheeple.


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## gtopa1

Kat said:


> I most definitely do.



Women are superior in the creativity stakes. Men superior in brawn. Both equal in essence.

Greg


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## gtopa1

aaronleland said:


> Except for the Negros and Jews of course.



Sammy Davis Junior was very much our equal. 

Greg


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## Sbiker

We're all very different.

But we're all are equal in a hand of God


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## shockedcanadian

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.




100%.  Natural Rights as ordained by God and defended by the best of us.  What a person does with their talents and abilities is not equal, but everyone is born equal and must be viewed as such in the eyes of the law and greater community.  It is what humankind should try to ascend to.

As far as I am concerned, you need all who are in positions of authority to embrace and encourage this most sacred of ideals.  It is what allows a nation to aspire to greatness and human accomplishment along with that unstated respect for the sanctity and dignity of each other as equals from the same Creator.

Possibly my most favourite sentence in written human history (outside of the bible):

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, *that all men are created equal*, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Still sounds so perfect after the 1000th reading.  Almost brings a tear to your eye.


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## aaronleland

shockedcanadian said:


> Possibly my most favourite sentence in written human history (outside of the bible):
> 
> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, *that all men are created equal*, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."



I know this argument has been overused by liberals a million times before, but it really is true. Some of the people who wrote that... OWNED people.


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## Kat

Oddly enough a few years back a staunch hard core liberal, which just so happened to be a black guy, argued and argued with me that all men were NOT created equal.


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## shockedcanadian

aaronleland said:


> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly my most favourite sentence in written human history (outside of the bible):
> 
> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, *that all men are created equal*, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know this argument has been overused by liberals a million times before, but it really is true. Some of the people who wrote that... OWNED people.
Click to expand...


How and why do you make an assessment of my political views based on the quoting of the American Constitution?

There is no Liberal or Conservative in the Constitution, it's for Americans of all stripes, walks of life.  Hence, the sentence and point of the argument.


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## aaronleland

shockedcanadian said:


> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly my most favourite sentence in written human history (outside of the bible):
> 
> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, *that all men are created equal*, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know this argument has been overused by liberals a million times before, but it really is true. Some of the people who wrote that... OWNED people.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How and why do you make an assessment of my political views based on the quoting of the American Constitution?
> 
> There is no Liberal or Conservative in the Constitution, it's for Americans of all stripes, walks of life.  Hence, the sentence and point of the argument.
Click to expand...


It WASN'T for Americans of all stripes. It may be now, but our founders didn't have black people in mind at the time.


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## owebo

aaronleland said:


> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly my most favourite sentence in written human history (outside of the bible):
> 
> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, *that all men are created equal*, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know this argument has been overused by liberals a million times before, but it really is true. Some of the people who wrote that... OWNED people.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How and why do you make an assessment of my political views based on the quoting of the American Constitution?
> 
> There is no Liberal or Conservative in the Constitution, it's for Americans of all stripes, walks of life.  Hence, the sentence and point of the argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It WASN'T for Americans of all stripes. It may be now, but our founders didn't have black people in mind at the time.
Click to expand...

In fact, they most certainly did.....


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## Remodeling Maidiac

22% said no?


Pussy liberal faggots


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## TheGreatGatsby

I don't think that most people practice the rigors of equality. By contrast, this makes our belief in equality appear lofty or otherwise hypocritical. Look at Hillary Clinton. She's a crime-ridden whore bag. If equality were a rigor, she'd have been in prison, not running for president.


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## Remodeling Maidiac

I know most of you blow me off but I've been there, I've done that. We're all created equal, fuck the bullshit narrative. 

If I can make it, NO EXCUSES


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## Remodeling Maidiac

I got out of prison in 1991. I'm not black. I'm not white. I'm me. I had one chance to turn my life around. My parole officer was a pissed off black chic. She didn't judge me. I don't judge you. But liberals can't sit still for that


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## S.J.

Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.


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## Kosh

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.



No such thing as equality in nature.

And no not all people are created equal.

You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..


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## Vastator

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.


No. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. Precisely because not all men are created equal.


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## Iceweasel

The question is flawed in my opinion. Hell no men are not created equal. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.

The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.

A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.


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## miketx

We are all created equal. What happens after that depends on us and our environment and things we are taught and things we learn.


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## tinydancer

Well having been a student of Timothy Leary philosophies, I would have to ask this question before I answered.

What is your definition of equal?


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## tinydancer

gtopa1 said:


> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the Negros and Jews of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sammy Davis Junior was very much our equal.
> 
> Greg
Click to expand...

 
And funnier than hell in the rat pack. He was awesome.


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## Anathema

No. All men are NOT created equal. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.


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## Billy_Kinetta

All men are created equal, but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities.

However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.


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## EvilCat Breath

All are equal before the law.  No place else.


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## Remodeling Maidiac

Iceweasel said:


> The question is flawed in my opinion. Hell no men are not created equal. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.


The "law" is enforced by man.
Man includes all of his biases & prejudices in every judgment he makes.


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## Remodeling Maidiac

Tipsycatlover said:


> All are equal before the law.  No place else.


Not only is this FALSE, it is extremely naive


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## Remodeling Maidiac

Billy_Kinetta said:


> All men are created equal, but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.


"Should be" but just like every other aspect of life money buys influence & favor. The poor man pays for his position in life much more severely than any man with money.


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## blackhawk

In the eyes of God yes in the eyes other men not all the time.


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## AnCap'n_Murica

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.


Depends upon what you mean by "equal".

Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, in which case the answer is no.

But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.

So, should they be? Yes.

Are they, as a practical matter? No.


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## BluesLegend

Does the question include unborn babies?


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## Iceweasel

Grampa Murked U said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is flawed in my opinion. Hell no men are not created equal. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
> 
> 
> 
> The "law" is enforced by man.
> Man includes all of his biases & prejudices in every judgment he makes.
Click to expand...

Enforcement is a different topic altogether. The laws as written are to be equal to all.


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## Iceweasel

blackhawk said:


> In the eyes of God yes in the eyes other men not all the time.


Why would God see Hitler and Mother Teresa equally?


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## Remodeling Maidiac

Iceweasel said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the eyes of God yes in the eyes other men not all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would God see Hitler and Mother Teresa equally?
Click to expand...

Because that's what the book of fairy tales says


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## Iceweasel

Grampa Murked U said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the eyes of God yes in the eyes other men not all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would God see Hitler and Mother Teresa equally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because that's what the book of fairy tales says
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. It's a common misconception within Christianity.


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## Remodeling Maidiac

Iceweasel said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the eyes of God yes in the eyes other men not all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would God see Hitler and Mother Teresa equally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because that's what the book of fairy tales says
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No it doesn't. It's a common misconception within Christianity.
Click to expand...

God loves all his children. Hitler may be in heaven right now. His life's deeds are meaningless compared to his heart moments before death. That is the ignorance of Christianity. I could be THE WORST MASS MURDERER in history but if I accept Christ at any point before my final breath is passed all of that is wiped away.

The parable is one of kindness & forgiveness. It is also really fucking stupid.


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## Billy_Kinetta

Grampa Murked U said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> 
> 
> "Should be" but just like every other aspect of life money buys influence & favor. The poor man pays for his position in life much more severely than any man with money.
Click to expand...


Nothing in life will ever be perfect.


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## Remodeling Maidiac

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Grampa Murked U said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> 
> 
> "Should be" but just like every other aspect of life money buys influence & favor. The poor man pays for his position in life much more severely than any man with money.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing in life will ever be perfect.
Click to expand...

You'll get no argument out of me on this issue.


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## Synthaholic

Kat said:


> Oddly enough a few years back a staunch hard core liberal, which just so happened to be a black guy, argued and argued with me that all men were NOT created equal.


Please tell us more about the random idiot you met on the internet!!!


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## Markle

SYTFE said:


> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise


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## Mr Natural

The creation process is equal but after that it's pretty much a crap shoot.


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## Markle

aaronleland said:


> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aaronleland said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shockedcanadian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly my most favourite sentence in written human history (outside of the bible):
> 
> "We hold these truths to be self-evident, *that all men are created equal*, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know this argument has been overused by liberals a million times before, but it really is true. Some of the people who wrote that... OWNED people.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How and why do you make an assessment of my political views based on the quoting of the American Constitution?
> 
> There is no Liberal or Conservative in the Constitution, it's for Americans of all stripes, walks of life.  Hence, the sentence and point of the argument.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It WASN'T for Americans of all stripes. It may be now, but our founders didn't have black people in mind at the time.
Click to expand...


Actually they did.  That is the reason for the phrase, "ALL men are created equal".  They were planning for the future.


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## Markle

Iceweasel said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the eyes of God yes in the eyes other men not all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would God see Hitler and Mother Teresa equally?
Click to expand...


Who said God sees Hitler and Mother Teresa equally?


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## Iceweasel

Markle said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the eyes of God yes in the eyes other men not all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would God see Hitler and Mother Teresa equally?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who said God sees Hitler and Mother Teresa equally?
Click to expand...

Read the posts.


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## SYTFE

Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:



SYTFE said:


> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise



And then the following conservatards proved me right.



S.J. said:


> Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.





Kosh said:


> No such thing as equality in nature.
> 
> *And no not all people are created equal*.
> 
> You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..





Vastator said:


> *No*. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. *Precisely because not all men are created equal*.





Iceweasel said:


> The question is flawed in my opinion. *Hell no men are not created equal*. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.





Anathema said:


> *No. All men are NOT created equal*. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.





Billy_Kinetta said:


> All men are created equal, *but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities*.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.





Tipsycatlover said:


> All are equal before the law.  *No place else*.





AnCap'n_Murica said:


> Depends upon what you mean by "equal".
> 
> Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, *in which case the answer is no*.
> 
> But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.
> 
> So, should they be? Yes.
> 
> *Are they, as a practical matter? No*.



Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL

Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...

Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.


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## Avatar4321

In that they have certain inalienable rights, yes.

Only some radicals seem to think we don't have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


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## Avatar4321

SYTFE said:


> Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then the following conservatards proved me right.
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing as equality in nature.
> 
> *And no not all people are created equal*.
> 
> You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No*. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. *Precisely because not all men are created equal*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is flawed in my opinion. *Hell no men are not created equal*. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No. All men are NOT created equal*. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, *but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities*.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> All are equal before the law.  *No place else*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCap'n_Murica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends upon what you mean by "equal".
> 
> Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, *in which case the answer is no*.
> 
> But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.
> 
> So, should they be? Yes.
> 
> *Are they, as a practical matter? No*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.
Click to expand...


Are you seriously trying to claim all people have the same intellectual, athletic, and artistic abilities?


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## Never3ndr

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.


I'm a liberal and I staunch disagree with the idea that all men are created equal.  However, I strongly support that they should be given equal opportunity...which is a separate issue.

Just as a quick example to support my position, saying all men are created equal would be like saying that everybody is capable of achieving basketball greatness like Michael Jordan, capable of the singing talents of Michael Jackson, able to have the intellectual innovation and genius to match Sir Issac Newton, or be capable of the acts of pure good shown by Mother Teresa.  This just simply is not true.  We are made differently and unequal.  However, it is the beauty of our inequality that makes unity special and makes those that are able to achieve greatness worthy of being the role models we pursue.


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## SYTFE

Avatar4321 said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then the following conservatards proved me right.
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing as equality in nature.
> 
> *And no not all people are created equal*.
> 
> You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No*. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. *Precisely because not all men are created equal*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is flawed in my opinion. *Hell no men are not created equal*. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No. All men are NOT created equal*. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, *but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities*.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> All are equal before the law.  *No place else*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCap'n_Murica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends upon what you mean by "equal".
> 
> Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, *in which case the answer is no*.
> 
> But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.
> 
> So, should they be? Yes.
> 
> *Are they, as a practical matter? No*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to claim all people have the same intellectual, athletic, and artistic abilities?
Click to expand...


That ISN'T what "all men are created equal" means, dumbass.  Are you fucking retarded or something?


----------



## boedicca

SYTFE said:


> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise




Yet more Progressive Up Is Down Newspeak from SHYTFobrains.

The Leftwing religion of Progressivism is what promoted Identity Politics and the Biggest Victim Sweepstakes...leading to Some Pigs are More Equal than Others.


----------



## Anathema

SYTFE said:


> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...



You say this as if Christianity is a given. I'm not one and haven't been in years. Religion is not the basis of my politics. 

I hate everyone else, so why wouldn't I expect them all to hate me too?


----------



## yiostheoy

Kat said:


> Oddly enough a few years back a staunch hard core liberal, which just so happened to be a black guy, argued and argued with me that all men were NOT created equal.


He was correct.


----------



## boedicca

Never3ndr said:


> Kat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a liberal and I staunch disagree with the idea that all men are created equal.  However, I strongly support that they should be given equal opportunity...which is a separate issue.
> 
> Just as a quick example to support my position, saying all men are created equal would be like saying that everybody is capable of achieving basketball greatness like Michael Jordan, capable of the singing talents of Michael Jackson, able to have the intellectual innovation and genius to match Sir Issac Newton, or be capable of the acts of pure good shown by Mother Teresa.  This just simply is not true.  We are made differently and unequal.  However, it is the beauty of our inequality that makes unity special and makes those that are able to achieve greatness worthy of being the role models we pursue.
Click to expand...



That's not what created equal means, bub.

It means that all humans are created equal with inalienable rights coming from The Creator (God, nature, whatever your ideology specifies).   Nobody has the right to infringe upon another's inalienable rights (which at bottom are essentially the right to be left alone).


----------



## SYTFE

"All men are created" equal does not mean that all people come into this world with the same talents, abilities and intellect.  We're all different and special snowflakes in our own way.  It doesn't even have anything to do with our perception "in God's eyes," as if we're able to speak on God's behalf anyway.  The phrase refers to our unique _value_ as humans -- no one human is more valuable or worthy than another.  It's supposed to serve as a reminder that discrimination is wrong, putting one race above another is wrong, putting anyone "above" another person is wrong.  We all share the same innate value as human beings in this world, no one human is "better" or "superior" than another.  Men are not better than women, women are not better than men.  No "race" or ethnicity is superior to another.  We all come into this world the same way, and we leave it the same way.


----------



## yiostheoy

miketx said:


> We are all created equal. What happens after that depends on us and our environment and things we are taught and things we learn.


I almost agree with this, but it is not true either.

You cannot compare the extremely bright with the extremely stupid.  And they were created that way at birth.

Same is true of the extremely brave and the extremely cowardly.


----------



## yiostheoy

Tipsycatlover said:


> All are equal before the law.  No place else.


It really depends on jury selection.

Just ask O.J. Simpson.


----------



## Never3ndr

boedicca said:


> Never3ndr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a liberal and I staunch disagree with the idea that all men are created equal.  However, I strongly support that they should be given equal opportunity...which is a separate issue.
> 
> Just as a quick example to support my position, saying all men are created equal would be like saying that everybody is capable of achieving basketball greatness like Michael Jordan, capable of the singing talents of Michael Jackson, able to have the intellectual innovation and genius to match Sir Issac Newton, or be capable of the acts of pure good shown by Mother Teresa.  This just simply is not true.  We are made differently and unequal.  However, it is the beauty of our inequality that makes unity special and makes those that are able to achieve greatness worthy of being the role models we pursue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's not what created equal means, bub.
> 
> It means that all humans are created equal with inalienable rights coming from The Creator (God, nature, whatever your ideology specifies).   Nobody has the right to infringe upon another's inalienable rights (which at bottom are essentially the right to be left alone).
Click to expand...

I did go out of my way to say that we all should have equal opportunity, which seems to be the core of what you are getting at.

However, it may just be a difference of definition, but I do not believe that men being equal and men having equal rights are the same thing...which is why I don't believe men being equal while I firmly support men having equal rights.


----------



## yiostheoy

blackhawk said:


> In the eyes of God yes in the eyes other men not all the time.


For the longest time God seems to have loved the Hebrews (and Jews) more than other peoples.  Then for the longest time he seems to have hated them.  Now he seems to have tough love for them again.

Ergo this statement about God is hard to justify.

It does seem that even God plays favorites, and this is patently obvious when you looks at different people's skills and opportunities.

DJ Trump's opportunities vastly exceed all of the rest of us.  He was thus able to buy the Presidency.  Like Napoleon said, he found it lying in the gutter and he picked it up -- in DJT's case -- with his checkbook.


----------



## rightwinger

Some men are more endowed than others

Hardy equal


----------



## SYTFE

Anathema said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You say this as if Christianity is a given. I'm not one and haven't been in years. Religion is not the basis of my politics.
> 
> I hate everyone else, so why wouldn't I expect them all to hate me too?
Click to expand...


Christianity is not a "given," it's all plagiarized from Egyptian mythology anyway.  But that's one lesson that is 100% true.  Even you, a misanthrope, have equal value as a human as anyone else.


----------



## SYTFE

boedicca said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet more Progressive Up Is Down Newspeak from SHYTFobrains.
> 
> The Leftwing religion of Progressivism is what promoted Identity Politics and the Biggest Victim Sweepstakes...leading to Some Pigs are More Equal than Others.
Click to expand...


What in Allah's name are you babbling about???


----------



## boedicca

Never3ndr said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never3ndr said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a liberal and I staunch disagree with the idea that all men are created equal.  However, I strongly support that they should be given equal opportunity...which is a separate issue.
> 
> Just as a quick example to support my position, saying all men are created equal would be like saying that everybody is capable of achieving basketball greatness like Michael Jordan, capable of the singing talents of Michael Jackson, able to have the intellectual innovation and genius to match Sir Issac Newton, or be capable of the acts of pure good shown by Mother Teresa.  This just simply is not true.  We are made differently and unequal.  However, it is the beauty of our inequality that makes unity special and makes those that are able to achieve greatness worthy of being the role models we pursue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That's not what created equal means, bub.
> 
> It means that all humans are created equal with inalienable rights coming from The Creator (God, nature, whatever your ideology specifies).   Nobody has the right to infringe upon another's inalienable rights (which at bottom are essentially the right to be left alone).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did go out of my way to say that we all should have equal opportunity, which seems to be the core of what you are getting at.
> 
> However, it may just be a difference of definition, but I do not believe that men being equal and men having equal rights are the same thing...which is why I don't believe men being equal while I firmly support men having equal rights.
Click to expand...



Inalienable rights are not the same as equal opportunity.   The latter is an assertion of affirmative rights, which is used to abridge the inalienable rights of others.


----------



## boedicca

SYTFE said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet more Progressive Up Is Down Newspeak from SHYTFobrains.
> 
> The Leftwing religion of Progressivism is what promoted Identity Politics and the Biggest Victim Sweepstakes...leading to Some Pigs are More Equal than Others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What in Allah's name are you babbling about???
Click to expand...



Reality, a concept with which you are thoroughly unacquainted.


----------



## SYTFE

boedicca said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet more Progressive Up Is Down Newspeak from SHYTFobrains.
> 
> The Leftwing religion of Progressivism is what promoted Identity Politics and the Biggest Victim Sweepstakes...leading to Some Pigs are More Equal than Others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What in Allah's name are you babbling about???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Reality, a concept with which you are thoroughly unacquainted.
Click to expand...


You might want to actually read through a thread first before running your mouth, eager beaver.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

SYTFE said:


> Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then the following conservatards proved me right.
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing as equality in nature.
> 
> *And no not all people are created equal*.
> 
> You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No*. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. *Precisely because not all men are created equal*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is flawed in my opinion. *Hell no men are not created equal*. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No. All men are NOT created equal*. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, *but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities*.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> All are equal before the law.  *No place else*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCap'n_Murica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends upon what you mean by "equal".
> 
> Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, *in which case the answer is no*.
> 
> But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.
> 
> So, should they be? Yes.
> 
> *Are they, as a practical matter? No*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.
Click to expand...


All idiots are not equal.  You are the top of your class of idiot.


----------



## there4eyeM

As in many instances, the expression was used at the time to express a spirit, an idea, in a fashion that was understood then. It was obviously not truly followed, because a slave is obviously not held to be equal in any society. Of course, many back then did not consider blacks human. And, indeed, it is important that the term is 'men' and not 'people' or 'humans'.
Thus, the question, if it is being transfered to today, has also to take into consideration the term 'created'. 
The most the statement can be taken for is that all humans would be equally subject to social justice.
Colt did not make equals, just increased the casualties.


----------



## Skull Pilot

The fact is people are not, never have been and never will be equal.


----------



## Norman

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.



What does the question mean? Clearly some people are born much better off than others, higher IQ more handsome and so on. Others are born a retard.

So men are not created equal. If you mean that should people be treated equally under the law, that's a different question.


----------



## Maryland Patriot

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.


excluding those people born with defects, yes. 
 All people are born, or start life physically and mentally equal. What happens after that is where the inequality happens.
 There are various reasons that one is going to end up better off than others, besides the personal  causes, we have economical, social and opportunity issues that come up.
But as far as equal on at the first breath? yes, all have the same potential at that point.


----------



## The Sage of Main Street

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.





Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.


*Race Traitors*

Decadent academics decree that we think so, despite all evidence from the real world those vindictive misfits ran away from.  Man comprises different species descended from different primate species.


----------



## NYcarbineer

owebo said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> And you fascist democrats all chant:
> 
> 4 legs good; two legs better.......
> 
> 
> And to the OP, yes, all men are created equal.....
Click to expand...


You believe that all men are created equal and endowed with inalienable rights?


----------



## NYcarbineer

Avatar4321 said:


> In that they have certain inalienable rights, yes.
> 
> Only some radicals seem to think we don't have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.



So the US government should extend the same rights to all men, regardless of their nationality?


----------



## sartre play

Iceweasel said:


> The question is flawed in my opinion. Hell no men are not created equal. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> like  your 1st paragraph. after that we part company
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.


----------



## Markle

Avatar4321 said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then the following conservatards proved me right.
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing as equality in nature.
> 
> *And no not all people are created equal*.
> 
> You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No*. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. *Precisely because not all men are created equal*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is flawed in my opinion. *Hell no men are not created equal*. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No. All men are NOT created equal*. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, *but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities*.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> All are equal before the law.  *No place else*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCap'n_Murica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends upon what you mean by "equal".
> 
> Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, *in which case the answer is no*.
> 
> But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.
> 
> So, should they be? Yes.
> 
> *Are they, as a practical matter? No*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to claim all people have the same intellectual, athletic, and artistic abilities?
Click to expand...


Of course not, are you some kind of fool?

The phrase is "all men are created equal".  A man/person is created when the sperm fertilizes the egg.  Therefore, all men are, in fact, created equal.


----------



## Markle

yiostheoy said:


> miketx said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are all created equal. What happens after that depends on us and our environment and things we are taught and things we learn.
> 
> 
> 
> I almost agree with this, but it is not true either.
> 
> You cannot compare the extremely bright with the extremely stupid.  And they were created that way at birth.
> 
> Same is true of the extremely brave and the extremely cowardly.
Click to expand...


They were created before birth.


----------



## S.J.

Markle said:


> A man/person is created when the sperm fertilizes the egg.


So, life begins at conception?


----------



## Avatar4321

SYTFE said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then the following conservatards proved me right.
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing as equality in nature.
> 
> *And no not all people are created equal*.
> 
> You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No*. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. *Precisely because not all men are created equal*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is flawed in my opinion. *Hell no men are not created equal*. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No. All men are NOT created equal*. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, *but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities*.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> All are equal before the law.  *No place else*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCap'n_Murica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends upon what you mean by "equal".
> 
> Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, *in which case the answer is no*.
> 
> But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.
> 
> So, should they be? Yes.
> 
> *Are they, as a practical matter? No*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to claim all people have the same intellectual, athletic, and artistic abilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That ISN'T what "all men are created equal" means, dumbass.  Are you fucking retarded or something?
Click to expand...


You were the one citing conservatives saying we aren't equal intellectually, athletically, and artistically as evidence that conservatives don't believe all men are created equal.

You did bother reading the responses right?


----------



## miketx

Yep.


----------



## Avatar4321

SYTFE said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet more Progressive Up Is Down Newspeak from SHYTFobrains.
> 
> The Leftwing religion of Progressivism is what promoted Identity Politics and the Biggest Victim Sweepstakes...leading to Some Pigs are More Equal than Others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What in Allah's name are you babbling about???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Reality, a concept with which you are thoroughly unacquainted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You might want to actually read through a thread first before running your mouth, eager beaver.
Click to expand...


Says the person who hasn't read the thread


----------



## there4eyeM

Fertilization is only 'creation' in the most poetic sense of the word. Obviously, a person is more than a few cells multiplying.


----------



## Markle

yiostheoy said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the eyes of God yes in the eyes other men not all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> For the longest time God seems to have loved the Hebrews (and Jews) more than other peoples.  Then for the longest time he seems to have hated them.  Now he seems to have tough love for them again.
> 
> Ergo this statement about God is hard to justify.
> 
> It does seem that even God plays favorites, and this is patently obvious when you looks at different people's skills and opportunities.
> 
> DJ Trump's opportunities vastly exceed all of the rest of us.  He was thus able to buy the Presidency.  Like Napoleon said, he found it lying in the gutter and he picked it up -- in DJT's case -- with his checkbook.
Click to expand...


How did President Donald Trump buy the Oval Office when it was Crooked Hillary Clinton who spent $1.2 BILLION and Donald Trump spent $600 MILLION?  If you recall, it was petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama who outspent Sen. John McCain by a two to one margin thus purchasing the Oval Office.  Obama spent over $780 MILLION, and McCain, who abide by the campaign finance laws spent $360 MILLION.


----------



## Avatar4321

NYcarbineer said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In that they have certain inalienable rights, yes.
> 
> Only some radicals seem to think we don't have the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the US government should extend the same rights to all men, regardless of their nationality?
Click to expand...


Same rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Yes wherever they can.


----------



## there4eyeM

A third party candidate with $180 million would have given this President more of a challenge than Ms Clinton did.

In any case, something has to happen with campaign spending.


----------



## SYTFE

Avatar4321 said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then the following conservatards proved me right.
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing as equality in nature.
> 
> *And no not all people are created equal*.
> 
> You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No*. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. *Precisely because not all men are created equal*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is flawed in my opinion. *Hell no men are not created equal*. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No. All men are NOT created equal*. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, *but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities*.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> All are equal before the law.  *No place else*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCap'n_Murica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends upon what you mean by "equal".
> 
> Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, *in which case the answer is no*.
> 
> But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.
> 
> So, should they be? Yes.
> 
> *Are they, as a practical matter? No*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to claim all people have the same intellectual, athletic, and artistic abilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That ISN'T what "all men are created equal" means, dumbass.  Are you fucking retarded or something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were the one citing conservatives saying we aren't equal intellectually, athletically, and artistically as evidence that conservatives don't believe all men are created equal.
> 
> You did bother reading the responses right?
Click to expand...


And what does the fact that conservatives in general don't believe men are created equal have to do with YOUR claim that "men created equal" means men are created with "the same intellectual, athletic and artistic abilities?"

I can tell that having a discussion with you about this subject is going to be very tedious.  You have no idea what the phrase means.  Not a goddamn clue.


----------



## Avatar4321

Markle said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then the following conservatards proved me right.
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing as equality in nature.
> 
> *And no not all people are created equal*.
> 
> You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No*. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. *Precisely because not all men are created equal*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is flawed in my opinion. *Hell no men are not created equal*. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No. All men are NOT created equal*. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, *but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities*.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> All are equal before the law.  *No place else*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCap'n_Murica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends upon what you mean by "equal".
> 
> Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, *in which case the answer is no*.
> 
> But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.
> 
> So, should they be? Yes.
> 
> *Are they, as a practical matter? No*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to claim all people have the same intellectual, athletic, and artistic abilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, are you some kind of fool?
> 
> The phrase is "all men are created equal".  A man/person is created when the sperm fertilizes the egg.  Therefore, all men are, in fact, created equal.
Click to expand...


I'm aware of that. Which is precisely why I said as much.


----------



## Avatar4321

SYTFE said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then the following conservatards proved me right.
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing as equality in nature.
> 
> *And no not all people are created equal*.
> 
> You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No*. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. *Precisely because not all men are created equal*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is flawed in my opinion. *Hell no men are not created equal*. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No. All men are NOT created equal*. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, *but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities*.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> All are equal before the law.  *No place else*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCap'n_Murica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends upon what you mean by "equal".
> 
> Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, *in which case the answer is no*.
> 
> But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.
> 
> So, should they be? Yes.
> 
> *Are they, as a practical matter? No*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to claim all people have the same intellectual, athletic, and artistic abilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That ISN'T what "all men are created equal" means, dumbass.  Are you fucking retarded or something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were the one citing conservatives saying we aren't equal intellectually, athletically, and artistically as evidence that conservatives don't believe all men are created equal.
> 
> You did bother reading the responses right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what does the fact that conservatives in general don't believe men are created equal have to do with YOUR claim that "men created equal" means men are created with "the same intellectual, athletic and artistic abilities?"
> 
> I can tell that having a discussion with you about this subject is going to be very tedious.  You have no idea what the phrase means.  Not a goddamn clue.
Click to expand...


You are seriously one of the stupidest people on this board..


----------



## SYTFE

Avatar4321 said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:
> 
> And then the following conservatards proved me right.
> 
> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to claim all people have the same intellectual, athletic, and artistic abilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That ISN'T what "all men are created equal" means, dumbass.  Are you fucking retarded or something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were the one citing conservatives saying we aren't equal intellectually, athletically, and artistically as evidence that conservatives don't believe all men are created equal.
> 
> You did bother reading the responses right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what does the fact that conservatives in general don't believe men are created equal have to do with YOUR claim that "men created equal" means men are created with "the same intellectual, athletic and artistic abilities?"
> 
> I can tell that having a discussion with you about this subject is going to be very tedious.  You have no idea what the phrase means.  Not a goddamn clue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are seriously one of the stupidest people on this board..
Click to expand...


LOL -- great argument.  Really, you are one spectacular debater LOL


----------



## Markle

there4eyeM said:


> As in many instances, the expression was used at the time to express a spirit, an idea, in a fashion that was understood then. It was obviously not truly followed, because a slave is obviously not held to be equal in any society. Of course, many back then did not consider blacks human. And, indeed, it is important that the term is 'men' and not 'people' or 'humans'.
> Thus, the question, if it is being transfered to today, has also to take into consideration the term 'created'.
> The most the statement can be taken for is that all humans would be equally subject to social justice.
> Colt did not make equals, just increased the casualties.



No, the Constitution is not subject to "social justice" adjustments.  It means what it says, no more, no less.


----------



## SYTFE

Again, for the slow pokes:



SYTFE said:


> "All men are created" equal does not mean that all people come into this world with the same talents, abilities and intellect.  We're all different and special snowflakes in our own way.  It doesn't even have anything to do with our perception "in God's eyes," as if we're able to speak on God's behalf anyway.  The phrase refers to our unique _value_ as humans -- no one human is more valuable or worthy than another.  It's supposed to serve as a reminder that discrimination is wrong, putting one race above another is wrong, putting anyone "above" another person is wrong.  We all share the same innate value as human beings in this world, no one human is "better" or "superior" than another.  Men are not better than women, women are not better than men.  No "race" or ethnicity is superior to another.  We all come into this world the same way, and we leave it the same way.


----------



## Markle

Skull Pilot said:


> The fact is people are not, never have been and never will be equal.



Whoever said they were equal?


----------



## there4eyeM

Like any word of man, the Constitution means what it says to us. We have no way of seeing it from the perspective of the authors. We are alive now and must deal with how we find things now. The Constitution should help us do that when possible.


----------



## Markle

there4eyeM said:


> Fertilization is only 'creation' in the most poetic sense of the word. Obviously, a person is more than a few cells multiplying.



In your opinion!


----------



## Markle

there4eyeM said:


> Like any word of man, the Constitution means what it says to us. We have no way of seeing it from the perspective of the authors. We are alive now and must deal with how we find things now. The Constitution should help us do that when possible.



Of course, we know what the authors meant.  It is written very succinctly.


----------



## Coyote

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.



Yes, I strongly believe that...


----------



## there4eyeM

Some things not written are also communicated by the Constitution, as with any document. Women were very succinctly left out of the Constitution. That speaks reams about the thinking of the day. My 'opinion' is that women are equal to men (at least). It took amendments to include more humans into "men".
Change is inherent for living things.


----------



## Avatar4321

SYTFE said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to claim all people have the same intellectual, athletic, and artistic abilities?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That ISN'T what "all men are created equal" means, dumbass.  Are you fucking retarded or something?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were the one citing conservatives saying we aren't equal intellectually, athletically, and artistically as evidence that conservatives don't believe all men are created equal.
> 
> You did bother reading the responses right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what does the fact that conservatives in general don't believe men are created equal have to do with YOUR claim that "men created equal" means men are created with "the same intellectual, athletic and artistic abilities?"
> 
> I can tell that having a discussion with you about this subject is going to be very tedious.  You have no idea what the phrase means.  Not a goddamn clue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are seriously one of the stupidest people on this board..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL -- great argument.  Really, you are one spectacular debater LOL
Click to expand...


Who is debating? I'm just stating a fact. You can't even follow your own conversation.

You: Conservatives don't believe that all men are created equally!

Several conservatives: People have different degrees of intelligence, physical attributes and abilities but we are all equal before the law.

You: See! They admit they don't believe we are all equal.

Me: So you really think we are equal in our intelligence, athleticism, and various abilities?

You: That's not what "all men are created equally means!" You're stupid!

Me: But you are the one citing those statements as evidence conservatives don't believe all men are created equally...

You: Totally confused.

Not a debate. 

Not to mention you don't even believe all men are created equal. But you don't even realize that. That's how foolish you are.


----------



## AnCap'n_Murica

SYTFE said:


> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.



First of all, I'm not a conservative, Mr. Broadbrush Bozo.

Secondly, the word "equal" is not fixed throughout all contexts. I am definitely not equal to Tom Brady, that's why he makes the big bucks. However, the context of "all men are created equal" refers to a rejection of royalty/caste systems, where men are born into inequality.

Leave it to a know-it-all moonbat assclown like you to look upon such things is such a black and white manner. Saaay, isn't that something that only "conservatards" do?


----------



## Kat

Synthaholic said:


> Kat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oddly enough a few years back a staunch hard core liberal, which just so happened to be a black guy, argued and argued with me that all men were NOT created equal.
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell us more about the random idiot you met on the internet!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## Kat

yiostheoy said:


> Kat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oddly enough a few years back a staunch hard core liberal, which just so happened to be a black guy, argued and argued with me that all men were NOT created equal.
> 
> 
> 
> He was correct.
Click to expand...



Not in my opinion. I believe we are all equal. I am no better than anyone, and no one is better than I am.

And people need to note.......this is not ''act equal'' ''seem equal'' treated equal'' ''look equal''.......this is created.


----------



## Vastator

Markle said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, though hardly unsurprising responses in this thread.  I wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Only a conservative would -- and do -- think otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then the following conservatards proved me right.
> 
> 
> 
> S.J. said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some are of inferior intelligence, they're called Democrats.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> No such thing as equality in nature.
> 
> *And no not all people are created equal*.
> 
> You can not even treat everyone the same as people are different by nature, except far left drones. They all stop maturing at the age of two..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vastator said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No*. However I believe all men deserve equal protection under the law. *Precisely because not all men are created equal*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> The question is flawed in my opinion. *Hell no men are not created equal*. Part of the phrase is missing, all men are created equal in the eyes of the law. We should not be treated differently by government, which is what the phrase means.
> 
> The potential to be the best you can be should be there for all of us, that's the role of government. A government that tries to administer equal outcomes regardless of your input is a government for the lowest common denominator.
> 
> A government that takes from Peter to pay Paul will always have the support of Paul.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anathema said:
> 
> 
> 
> *No. All men are NOT created equal*. The very concept is ludicrous on its face. Some are born average. Others are born far above average. Some are born with a deficit to overcome. That's just basic human biology and psychology. Then you add in the benefit or deficit of the family the child may be born into.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> All men are created equal, *but do not necessarily remain so due to variances in intellect and abilities*.
> 
> However, all should be held equal before the law, regardless of those variances.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipsycatlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> All are equal before the law.  *No place else*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AnCap'n_Murica said:
> 
> 
> 
> Depends upon what you mean by "equal".
> 
> Some men are better at athletics, while others excel at more intellectual pursuits. Then, some others seem born into mediocrity.  Definite lack of equality there, *in which case the answer is no*.
> 
> But are men born to higher stations in life because they're members of the lucky sperm club? Is the law meant to  apply all men only applicable to the peasants? This is an area where all men SHOULD BE equal, but history has shown that they aren't.
> 
> So, should they be? Yes.
> 
> *Are they, as a practical matter? No*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for proving me right, conservatards.  You consistently succeed in living up to your expectations.  LOL
> 
> Hilarious that the notion that all men are created equal is an old Christian teaching intuitively understood by liberals, but almost universally _refused_ by conservatives.  And you guys wonder why you're hated the world over...
> 
> Yes, I know some conservatives "get" this concept.  If grampa who is a reformed ex-con gets it, why can't the rest of you?  Conservatism is a mental illness, I guess.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you seriously trying to claim all people have the same intellectual, athletic, and artistic abilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course not, are you some kind of fool?
> 
> The phrase is "all men are created equal".  A man/person is created when the sperm fertilizes the egg.  Therefore, all men are, in fact, created equal.
Click to expand...

Not really... Look at down syndom for example. Oddball chromosome at the moment of conception.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Markle said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is people are not, never have been and never will be equal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whoever said they were equal?
Click to expand...

 it's the question posed in the OP


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## ScienceRocks

Skull Pilot said:


> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is people are not, never have been and never will be equal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whoever said they were equal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's the question posed in the OP
Click to expand...



That is why we have laws and civil rights to enforce a standard of taking care of people that aren't as good as others.


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## Skull Pilot

Matthew said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Markle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is people are not, never have been and never will be equal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whoever said they were equal?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it's the question posed in the OP
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That is why we have laws and civil rights to enforce a standard of taking care of people that aren't as good as others.
Click to expand...

the problem there is that the goal is  not equality of opportunity but rather the equality of results


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## there4eyeM

there4eyeM said:


> As in many instances, the expression was used at the time to express a spirit, an idea, in a fashion that was understood then. It was obviously not truly followed, because a slave is obviously not held to be equal in any society. Of course, many back then did not consider blacks human. And, indeed, it is important that the term is 'men' and not 'people' or 'humans'.
> Thus, the question, if it is being transfered to today, has also to take into consideration the term 'created'.
> The most the statement can be taken for is that all humans would be equally subject to social justice.
> Colt did not make equals, just increased the casualties.


Many principles and ideals were aspired to at the revolutionary times when the U.S. was formed. These were expressed in the language of that time in ways commonly understood at that time. They were relative to their moment. That is how language works. What was said and done then evolved society, became integrated into it, and evolved further into other contemporary nuances. Our language today contains the same words, but our thoughts, reactions and emotions are developed from what they have become and are not necessarily identical with what they were.


----------



## Iceweasel

there4eyeM said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> As in many instances, the expression was used at the time to express a spirit, an idea, in a fashion that was understood then. It was obviously not truly followed, because a slave is obviously not held to be equal in any society. Of course, many back then did not consider blacks human. And, indeed, it is important that the term is 'men' and not 'people' or 'humans'.
> Thus, the question, if it is being transfered to today, has also to take into consideration the term 'created'.
> The most the statement can be taken for is that all humans would be equally subject to social justice.
> Colt did not make equals, just increased the casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> Many principles and ideals were aspired to at the revolutionary times when the U.S. was formed. These were expressed in the language of that time in ways commonly understood at that time. They were relative to their moment. That is how language works. What was said and done then evolved society, became integrated into it, and evolved further into other contemporary nuances. Our language today contains the same words, but our thoughts, reactions and emotions are developed from what they have become and are not necessarily identical with what they were.
Click to expand...

You'd need to explain that to a Troglodite like myself. Which idioms changed that we misunderstand today?


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## ChrisL

I don't think everyone is "equal" but everyone should have equal rights and be treated the same (except criminals).


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## BrokeLoser

SYTFE said:


> "All men are created" equal does not mean that all people come into this world with the same talents, abilities and intellect.  We're all different and special snowflakes in our own way.  It doesn't even have anything to do with our perception "in God's eyes," as if we're able to speak on God's behalf anyway.  The phrase refers to our unique _value_ as humans -- no one human is more valuable or worthy than another.  It's supposed to serve as a reminder that discrimination is wrong, putting one race above another is wrong, putting anyone "above" another person is wrong.  We all share the same innate value as human beings in this world, no one human is "better" or "superior" than another.  Men are not better than women, women are not better than men.  No "race" or ethnicity is superior to another.  We all come into this world the same way, and we leave it the same way.



Aww, how noble, I almost shed a tear. 
This is 100% totally trivial BULLSHIT!
People who live life with their head in their ass would love nothing more than for this to become standard philosophy...just like the slow fat kid on the track team would love to be considered equal to those who actually contribute. 
You see, in the real world equality is earned based on ones actions and behaviors....sorry low-life's that's just the way it is outside your fictitious utopian bliss that you work so hard to create in your little tiny minds.
One must act like an equal to be treated equally. This is so simple.
Here's an example for the really stupid people who love semantics and hair splitting:
Charles Manson and Bill Gates are not "equals".
Your filthy 5' tall illegal beaner is not an "equal" to me.
Carry on and let the spin begin.


----------



## there4eyeM

Iceweasel said:


> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> As in many instances, the expression was used at the time to express a spirit, an idea, in a fashion that was understood then. It was obviously not truly followed, because a slave is obviously not held to be equal in any society. Of course, many back then did not consider blacks human. And, indeed, it is important that the term is 'men' and not 'people' or 'humans'.
> Thus, the question, if it is being transfered to today, has also to take into consideration the term 'created'.
> The most the statement can be taken for is that all humans would be equally subject to social justice.
> Colt did not make equals, just increased the casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> Many principles and ideals were aspired to at the revolutionary times when the U.S. was formed. These were expressed in the language of that time in ways commonly understood at that time. They were relative to their moment. That is how language works. What was said and done then evolved society, became integrated into it, and evolved further into other contemporary nuances. Our language today contains the same words, but our thoughts, reactions and emotions are developed from what they have become and are not necessarily identical with what they were.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You'd need to explain that to a Troglodite like myself. Which idioms changed that we misunderstand today?
Click to expand...

See post #111.


----------



## Iceweasel

there4eyeM said:


> Iceweasel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there4eyeM said:
> 
> 
> 
> As in many instances, the expression was used at the time to express a spirit, an idea, in a fashion that was understood then. It was obviously not truly followed, because a slave is obviously not held to be equal in any society. Of course, many back then did not consider blacks human. And, indeed, it is important that the term is 'men' and not 'people' or 'humans'.
> Thus, the question, if it is being transfered to today, has also to take into consideration the term 'created'.
> The most the statement can be taken for is that all humans would be equally subject to social justice.
> Colt did not make equals, just increased the casualties.
> 
> 
> 
> Many principles and ideals were aspired to at the revolutionary times when the U.S. was formed. These were expressed in the language of that time in ways commonly understood at that time. They were relative to their moment. That is how language works. What was said and done then evolved society, became integrated into it, and evolved further into other contemporary nuances. Our language today contains the same words, but our thoughts, reactions and emotions are developed from what they have become and are not necessarily identical with what they were.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You'd need to explain that to a Troglodite like myself. Which idioms changed that we misunderstand today?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> See post #111.
Click to expand...

He is disagreeing with you. Doesn't compute. The question was what idioms have changed so we're getting it wrong today.


----------



## Markle

Avatar4321 said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> That ISN'T what "all men are created equal" means, dumbass.  Are you fucking retarded or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were the one citing conservatives saying we aren't equal intellectually, athletically, and artistically as evidence that conservatives don't believe all men are created equal.
> 
> You did bother reading the responses right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what does the fact that conservatives in general don't believe men are created equal have to do with YOUR claim that "men created equal" means men are created with "the same intellectual, athletic and artistic abilities?"
> 
> I can tell that having a discussion with you about this subject is going to be very tedious.  You have no idea what the phrase means.  Not a goddamn clue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are seriously one of the stupidest people on this board..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL -- great argument.  Really, you are one spectacular debater LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is debating? I'm just stating a fact. You can't even follow your own conversation.
> 
> You: Conservatives don't believe that all men are created equally!
> 
> Several conservatives: People have different degrees of intelligence, physical attributes and abilities but we are all equal before the law.
> 
> You: See! They admit they don't believe we are all equal.
> 
> Me: So you really think we are equal in our intelligence, athleticism, and various abilities?
> 
> You: That's not what "all men are created equally means!" You're stupid!
> 
> Me: But you are the one citing those statements as evidence conservatives don't believe all men are created equally...
> 
> You: Totally confused.
> 
> Not a debate.
> 
> Not to mention you don't even believe all men are created equal. But you don't even realize that. That's how foolish you are.
Click to expand...


Lie.  It is proven fact that it is the Democrats/Progressives who pigeon hole all races and minorities for the sole purpose of pandering to each.  Relax, that's okay, you've just been found out because you actually DO NOTHING for those groups you target.


----------



## SYTFE

BrokeLoser said:


> Your filthy 5' tall illegal beaner is not an "equal" to me.



I was waiting for some conservative fuckboy to admit that they think they're superior to Mexicans.  Thanks!  I knew it all along.


----------



## SYTFE

Avatar4321 said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> That ISN'T what "all men are created equal" means, dumbass.  Are you fucking retarded or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were the one citing conservatives saying we aren't equal intellectually, athletically, and artistically as evidence that conservatives don't believe all men are created equal.
> 
> You did bother reading the responses right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And what does the fact that conservatives in general don't believe men are created equal have to do with YOUR claim that "men created equal" means men are created with "the same intellectual, athletic and artistic abilities?"
> 
> I can tell that having a discussion with you about this subject is going to be very tedious.  You have no idea what the phrase means.  Not a goddamn clue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are seriously one of the stupidest people on this board..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL -- great argument.  Really, you are one spectacular debater LOL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is debating? I'm just stating a fact. You can't even follow your own conversation.
> 
> You: Conservatives don't believe that all men are created equally!
> 
> Several conservatives: People have different degrees of intelligence, physical attributes and abilities but we are all equal before the law.
> 
> You: See! They admit they don't believe we are all equal.
> 
> Me: So you really think we are equal in our intelligence, athleticism, and various abilities?
> 
> You: That's not what "all men are created equally means!" You're stupid!
> 
> Me: But you are the one citing those statements as evidence conservatives don't believe all men are created equally...
> 
> You: Totally confused.
> 
> Not a debate.
> 
> Not to mention you don't even believe all men are created equal. But you don't even realize that. That's how foolish you are.
Click to expand...


Thanks for confirming that you really are too stupid to have this conversation.  I only made the statement that conservatives almost universally believe that men are not created equal, and cited posts from multiple conservative morons stating they _don't believe men are created equal_.

Then you come along and make the asinine argument that it has to do with talents and abilities.  LOL, you really are one mentally challenged individual, dude.  Jesus.  If the phrase really did refer to intelligence and we as a culture followed this phrase as literally as dumbshit conservatives interpret it -- you would have been placed in a very special school at an early aged and shunned as the idiot you are for your entire life.


----------



## BrokeLoser

SYTFE said:


> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your filthy 5' tall illegal beaner is not an "equal" to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was waiting for some conservative fuckboy to admit that they think they're superior to Mexicans.  Thanks!  I knew it all along.
Click to expand...


Easy now buddy...get a hold of yourself...don't break that cardinal rule and become intolerant.
I noticed you picked a sentence from my context that you thought you could play a little semantics with...Did anything else I said make any sense in your simple little peanut brain?


----------



## SYTFE

BrokeLoser said:


> SYTFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BrokeLoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your filthy 5' tall illegal beaner is not an "equal" to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was waiting for some conservative fuckboy to admit that they think they're superior to Mexicans.  Thanks!  I knew it all along.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Easy now buddy...get a hold of yourself...don't break that cardinal rule and become intolerant.
> I noticed you picked a sentence from my context that you thought you could play a little semantics with...Did anything else I said make any sense in your simple little peanut brain?
Click to expand...


I'm not "tolerant" of blathering idiots.  And I took nothing out of context, you degenerate.


----------



## Anathema

Matthew said:


> That is why we have laws and civil rights to enforce a standard of taking care of people that aren't as good as others.



Doesn't that lead to destruction of the species by actively subverting Survival of the Fittest?


----------



## The Sage of Main Street

there4eyeM said:


> Like any word of man, the Constitution means what it says to us. We have no way of seeing it from the perspective of the authors. We are alive now and must deal with how we find things now. The Constitution should help us do that when possible.


*What Really Put the Crack in the Liberty Bell*

"All men are created equal" is from the Declaration of Independence.  Its author was excluded from helping write the Constitution, which was written behind closed doors by lawyers for the 1%.


----------



## Campbell

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.



That's something nice to say but that's as far as it goes. Equal my ass.....a guy like Trump with his money could(and probably does) destroy ordinary folks. All the poor guy has to do is accidently or on purpose offend some "Big Wig."


----------



## Kat

Campbell said:


> Kat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's something nice to say but that's as far as it goes. Equal my ass.....a guy like Trump with his money could(and probably does) destroy ordinary folks. All the poor guy has to do is accidently or on purpose offend some "Big Wig."
Click to expand...




I see what you are saying, but what does that have to do with creation?


----------



## ...

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.



Yes, I believe that all mean are equal, it's culture that decides where man sits on the ladder though.


----------



## iamwhatiseem

Depends on the context of "equal".


----------



## task0778

We're all different in one way or another, physically, mentally, psychologically, and all sorts of other ways.   So obviously we are not equal in that sense;   I think the "all men are created equal" phrase refers to the idea that every human being has certain basic human rights that cannot be taken away by a legal and responsible gov't.   And any gov't that tries to do that is invalid and deserves to be overthrown, by revolution if necessary.   I'm sure we have some differences about what constitutes a basic human right, and we can discuss that at length.   But I think (hope) we can at least agree that every human being has a right to life, freedom, and self determination.


----------



## yiostheoy

Once again, God did not make all men equal.

Samuel Colt did.


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## ChrisL

Depending on whether you are talking about in the eyes of the law or just generally.  Generally, I would have to go with no.  Like others have said, some are born more intelligent or with more advantages than others.  A baby born to rich parents has many more advantages already than one born to poor parents.


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## Sbiker

First we have to define criteries and target of our investigation.

Does the human are equal? Offcourse, because they're identical - almost every human have two legs, two arms, one head and so on. 
On the other hand EVERY human is unique. He has own mind, own behaviour etc...

Equality makes sense applied to society. All social groups, intended to perform different functions in society are tend to isolation, which make quality of people in this groups lower, till to level of unsuitableness... To prevent it, we could use the idea of equality, applying to effectiveness of concrete privileged social group. WIthout it, idea about equality - just a material of speculations, frequently used for destroying the working society structures...


----------



## Campbell

ChrisL said:


> Depending on whether you are talking about in the eyes of the law or just generally.  Generally, I would have to go with no.  Like others have said, some are born more intelligent or with more advantages than others.  A baby born to rich parents has many more advantages already than one born to poor parents.



That's what the Republican party is for.....they want to keep it that way. They've never seen a government program they didn't hate!


----------



## Michelle420

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.



If by "equal" you mean valuable then Yes. If by equal you mean status in life then No.


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## Mr Natural

The creation process is equal.

After that, it's pretty much a crap shoot.


----------



## Unkotare

Kat said:


> Do you believe that all men are created equal? I'd like your POV. I have asked this on other sites several times, and actually was surprised at the different answers. Curious to see now what is said.
> 
> Men = person...so you know.




A lot of people misunderstand what that means.


----------



## Markle

Campbell said:


> That's something nice to say but that's as far as it goes. Equal my ass.....a guy like Trump with his money could(and probably does) destroy ordinary folks. All the poor guy has to do is accidently or on purpose offend some "Big Wig."



I take it that comprehension is not your strong point.

What is your definition of the word, created?  For me, it is conception.  For you, it appears to be a young adult.


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## dblack

In the eyes of the law, yeah - everyone is equal. But that's a principle, not a 'fact'. It means that law should apply to everyone equally. It doesn't mean that everyone is the same, or that government has any responsibility to ensure that everyone receives equal appreciation from society.


----------



## dblack

Sbiker said:


> First we have to define criteries and target of our investigation.
> 
> Does the human are equal? Offcourse, because they're identical - almost every human have two legs, two arms, one head and so on.
> On the other hand EVERY human is unique. He has own mind, own behaviour etc...
> 
> Equality makes sense applied to society. All social groups, intended to perform different functions in society are tend to isolation, which make quality of people in this groups lower, till to level of unsuitableness... To prevent it, we could use the idea of equality, applying to effectiveness of concrete privileged social group. WIthout it, idea about equality - just a material of speculations, frequently used for destroying the working society structures...



R U on drugs?


----------



## Igrok_

Every man has its unique advantages and disadvantages. So in this sense all people are different.


----------

