# Now You Can Walk Into A Best Buy And Get A Solar System For Your Home



## ScienceRocks (Mar 12, 2014)

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Now You Can Walk Into A Best Buy And Get A Solar System For Your Home*

Now You Can Walk Into A Best Buy And Get A Solar System For Your Home | ThinkProgress



> SolarCity and Best Buy have just announced a deal allowing customers to get low-cost and low-hassle solar power for their homes.
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> Its whats called a third party leasing agreement. Rather than purchasing a solar array outright, they lease the system from the provider  SolarCity, in this case. Its just that the system is installed on the roof of the homeowner. The benefit for the customer is they dont have to worry about installation and maintenance  the provider handles that  and there are no big upfront costs. The customer just pays the provider a set amount each month for the electricity, and that cost is usually slightly lower than the going market rate.
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Here's the goal....Everyone on usmsb go down and buy solar!


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## Wolfsister77 (Mar 12, 2014)

Here's hoping it expands past the 4 States it is currently in.


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## Indeependent (Mar 12, 2014)

What happens 20 years from now when the panels die and it cost 25K to buy new ones and no one's offering a deal?
Or is the progression of the technology hopefully going to make the eventual upgrade inexpensive?


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## ScienceRocks (Mar 12, 2014)

Seeing the trend the 1970's...I'd say they will become much cheaper!


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## Mr. H. (Mar 12, 2014)

Solar panels are toxicity incarnate.


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## Politico (Mar 13, 2014)

Yeah let's all run down to best buy. You first hypocrite.


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## elektra (Mar 13, 2014)

Matthew said:


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> Now You Can Walk Into A Best Buy And Get A Solar System For Your Home*
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> Now You Can Walk Into A Best Buy And Get A Solar System For Your Home | ThinkProgress
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Your roof and shingles/tiles were not designed to carry the load of Solar Panels. What liability protection is provide for structural damage as well as damage to the roof resulting in rain/water leaking through the mounting points of the Solar Panel.

Of course you have to keep them clean, who is liable when you fall off your roof trying to clean the dirt and grim off them.


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## Geaux4it (Mar 13, 2014)

Matthew said:


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> Now You Can Walk Into A Best Buy And Get A Solar System For Your Home | ThinkProgress
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Meh, no thanks.. I would rather support coal

-Geaux


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## chikenwing (Mar 13, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> What happens 20 years from now when the panels die and it cost 25K to buy new ones and no one's offering a deal?
> Or is the progression of the technology hopefully going to make the eventual upgrade inexpensive?



Our home is  passive solar,works well when its sunny,two years ago,we looked at a PV/wind system 7.5 kw it had a 20 year life cycle and cost 51 k,we didn't buy it.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 13, 2014)

elektra said:


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Well not everyone is so stupid as to poke holes in the roof where you should not. As for weight, if they are thin film, very little added weight. 

You might try reading the OP with some comprehension. It states that Solar City will do all the maintenance.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 13, 2014)

chikenwing said:


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51 K? Rather high, even if they did the total installation. Here you can get a kit with everything you need, except the racking, for an 18 kw system for 23.5 k. 

Grid tie Solar Power Systems - Grid tie Solar Panel Systems


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## Old Rocks (Mar 13, 2014)

Looks like the market likes Solar City. Musk has built some amazing companies.

SCTY Stock Quote - SolarCity Corp. Stock Price Today (SCTY:NASDAQ) - MarketWatch


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## chikenwing (Mar 13, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


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That was the price,ya it is high thats why its didn't happen. 7.5kw was just a back up ,couldn't meet all our needs. 23 k is still high for a 20 year life cycle,much more work to be done.

And yes Musk is a visionary we will see more exciting things from this guy.


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## TakeAStepBack (Mar 13, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> Looks like the market likes Solar City. Musk has built some amazing companies.
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> SCTY Stock Quote - SolarCity Corp. Stock Price Today (SCTY:NASDAQ) - MarketWatch



Why do you hate the planet? Do you have any idea how toxic it is to make solar panels? Oh, nevermind. You still are into chasing the elusive climate boogeyman around instead of focusing on real pollution.


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## jon_berzerk (Mar 13, 2014)

TakeAStepBack said:


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everyone knows that pollution that is caused by leftist ideals is not bad


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## Old Rocks (Mar 13, 2014)

TakeAStepBack said:


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Why do you lie so much? After all, where the manufacturing of PV's is a source of pollution, everything else they manufacture is also a source of pollution. In the nations with environmental rules and regulations, PV manufacture is not a major source of pollution. And, unlike coal fired plants, once built, there is no further pollution associated with the use of PV.


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## Politico (Mar 14, 2014)

It is a source of pollution. But the reason some use it has nothing to do with that. So don't lump them in with the with treehuggers.


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## elektra (Mar 14, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


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Why do you lie so much is a better question.

Unlike a Coal Plant that lasts over 70 years, today's new PV's last less than 10, hence they will be a huge source of pollution when you throw them away.

Solar Panels need to be washed and cleaned, just like you need to clean the windows of your house, except being much closer to the plane of level, they accumulate more dirt and dust than a window, so Solar Panels get washed more. 

In California, imagine if every house had a Solar Panel, hence everyone now will increase water usage in drought stricken California to wash Solar Panels. Further, the Solar Panels are not efficient enough to pump water so we will still use fossil fuels to pump water, so the idea that they are clean and green is a pure lie.


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## Geaux4it (Mar 14, 2014)

Support the Virginia's

Support jobs, support coal

-Geaux


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## Grandma (Mar 14, 2014)

elektra said:


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No. Just no.

The coal slurry that one plant can accumulate in 70 years is enough to fill Lake Erie. And it's chock full of toxins, like arsenic. Google Tennessee slurry pit leaks. Scary stuff. 70 years worth of solar panels used by that coal plant's customers won't make anywhere near that much of a mess.

Solar panels DON'T need WASHED and cleaned. (Redundant much?) A good rinsing off once a month will be more than enough. What kind of dirt do you get on your roof, anyway?

Solar panels aren't efficient enough to pump water? Water pumps are electric. Solar panels create electricity. A regular solar panel setup can run a household well pump on a sunny day.

Wind energy is cleaner, though. Glue little reflectors on the blades to scare off the birds.


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## Spiderman (Mar 14, 2014)

Not every home has enough south or southwest exposure to make solar a justifiable expense.


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## elektra (Mar 14, 2014)

Grandma said:


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Coal Slurry of a Coal Plant will fill Lake Erie? Well, we have 600 Coal Plants in the USA, where are the 600 Lake Eries? Should be at least 10 per state, and given that Lake Erie is as big as a lot of states, 10 per state means we would be living on Coal Slurrys. So where are they? 600 Coal Slurry Lakes, as big as a great lake? I should be living on one. How about pointing out at 60 of them on google maps, that is only 10%, I will say you were right and I am wrong, so go find 60 of them, 10% of what should be out there. Of course we have been burning Coal for over 140 years, so in reality we should have 1200 Coal Slurry as big as a Great Lake. 



> Grandma; Solar panels DON'T need WASHED and cleaned. (Redundant much?)


Liar. This is from the Synsolar.

FAQs



> Do I need to clean my solar panels, and how often?
> Yes, solar panels need cleaning. The best time to clean panels is after the rains end, and then quarterly for most systems. Systems with steeper slopes will require less maintenance because dirt and debris has a harder time collecting.





> Grandma; A good rinsing off once a month will be more than enough. What kind of dirt do you get on your roof, anyway?



A good rinsing? You do not know much do you? 

How to clean solar panels



> SOLAR PANEL CLEANER
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> Self cleaning systems are one option but not only do they present a substantial investment they share one inherent flaw with rain storms - they leave water deposits on solar panels.  These deposits will not be removed with subsequent cleanings with soap and water.
> After we realize a good cleaning is called for the next step is to choose a product that will not only be safe for solar panels or skylights but will also be safe for the building, the ecology and our families and employees.



Water Deposits, and you think well water can be used to simply rinse the bird shit and all that evil carbon and pollution off a Solar Panel?

That is two, Grandma knows nothing of which Grandma posts.



> Grandma; Solar panels aren't efficient enough to pump water? Water pumps are electric. Solar panels create electricity. A regular solar panel setup can run a household well pump on a sunny day.



I did not realize the level of education I am dealing with, sorry. Yes, with enough money you can do anything.

Solar Ray: Solar Water Pumps and Pumping



> Appliances	Solar Water Pumping
> 
> **Note: We usually don't recommend replacing existing grid powered pumps with solar. Solar pumps are best used when grid power is too far away and too expensive. If you want to go green and go solar, we recommend adding solar panels to your home and grid-tie them to your electric company. You will get the most "bang for your buck" in today's solar marketplace





> Bringing life giving water from under the ground using only the power of the sun or wind is very rewarding. It has also been full of trials and tribulations. We have installed, pulled and reinstalled enough pumps to learn.
> Many solar pumps are available on today's market, but we are very conservative in what we recommend, sell, and service. Because water is so important, we are not willing to gamble with unreliable products on our customers' lives.



Grandma, do your own research before you risk the your life or the life of the ones you love. I hope you delete you rebuttal to my post, I would not want the life of another soul to be lost because you so nonchalantly are telling everyone they can safely and reliably pump life essential water with Solar.

Green Energy ideas and the implementation of those ideas can cause the loss of life, Solar is not safe for the pumping of water. 

But hey, at least you can go out and find those Great Lake sized coal slurry pits. Should be an easy 600 of them out there in the USA, so lets see just a few.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 14, 2014)

There are a tremendous amount of lies concerning the life span of the PV panels. So, let's look at some real information;

How long do solar electric PV panels last? | CAT Information Service

Research from Switzerland: Still good after 20 years
The LEE-TISO testing centre for PV components at the University of Applied Sciences of Southern Switzerland installed Europe&#8217;s first grid-connected PV plant, a 10kW roof, in May 1982. They analysed the performance of the panels in 2002 and published the results in a scientific paper (Chianese et al, 2003). The PV plant was installed with 288 monocrystalline modules and an initial nominal plant power raring of 10.7kW, or an average of 37W peak rating per panel.  Interestingly, when the panels were tested in 1983, the peak power output of the panels came to an average of 34W, 9% less than the initial rated peak output. This steep initial drop is normal &#8211; even with modern PV panels a loss of 5% over the first 12 months is not uncommon.

When the panels were tested in 2002, the average peak output of the panels was 32.9W &#8211; 11% lower than the nominal value in 1982 and only 3.2% lower than the measured value in 1983. In other words, between 1983 and 2002 the panels peak output had only degraded by around 0.2% per year since 1983 (0.5% per year against initial nominal rating).

Just as in the case of CAT&#8217;s PV roof, the LEE-TISO researchers found significant amounts of mechanical degradation of their panels. In 2002, 98% of their modules showed signs of yellowing, and 92% had issues with lamination peeling off. However, the impact of delamination on the overall plant performance was limited and only one single panel (less than 0.4%) was replaced.


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## elektra (Mar 14, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


> There are a tremendous amount of lies concerning the life span of the PV panels. So, let's look at some real information;
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> How long do solar electric PV panels last? | CAT Information Service
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Yep, Switzerland gets as much sun as intense as the California Desert that records some of the highest temperatures in the world, Great comparison.


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## chikenwing (Mar 14, 2014)

There is more to a solar system then just panels,you have batteries,they have the shortest life,then there are inverters,with a life expectancy depending on conditions and maint,and other sensing and control systems. The average harry home owner can't do much.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 15, 2014)

chikenwing said:


> There is more to a solar system then just panels,you have batteries,they have the shortest life,then there are inverters,with a life expectancy depending on conditions and maint,and other sensing and control systems. The average harry home owner can't do much.



Silly ass, have you never heard of grid parrallel? Are you truly that ignorant?


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## Book of Jeremiah (Mar 15, 2014)

whats grid parallel?


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## Old Rocks (Mar 15, 2014)

Grid parallel is where you feed the power that you generate into the grid through an inverter during the day, and, at night, use power off of the grid. If you produce more power than you use, in some states you get a few pennies back at the end of the year, in others, nothing, just no electrical bill. However, this has the advantage for the utilities of feeding power on the grid during the day when it is most needed. For the home owner, he is still on the grid, so no problem with power at night, or on very dark stormy days. Win, win for all.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 15, 2014)

Grid-direct solar system diagram | Itek Energy


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## Old Rocks (Mar 15, 2014)

elektra said:


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OK, silly person, links to where the solar panels in California degrade in less than 10 years. How about less than 20 years?


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## Papageorgio (Mar 15, 2014)

I'm going to wait until Obama buys one for me.


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## Mr. H. (Mar 15, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


> I'm going to wait until Obama buys one for me.



Yeah, but can you use it to call your homies?


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## Zander (Mar 15, 2014)

I love solar. It's a beautiful thing.  But for most people who own their own homes, purchasing the solar system is a better deal than leasing 

I've done some homework - Here is the math- Disclaimer: this is a rough estimate only, your mileage may vary!:

 Leasing saves you about 25% immediately. But it locks you in to a set price per KW hour for X-number of years with built in price increases for the next 30 years (or longer). Of course, you pay nothing out of pocket.  You can save more than 25% - just look at the offering and scrutinize your usage and baselines.  You will always pay more than the people that own their own grid tied systems, but less than regular utility customers. 

BUT

With a purchase- you lay out some cash now (average of $25K for a 5KW system installed) , but get a far lower price for your home energy - forever. Also, because you OWN the system - it adds equity to your home (your house is cheaper to operate!).   A properly designed "grid tied" system can expect to reduce your overall bill by 75%-90%  (not accounting for cost of system). So really it comes down to time horizon- if you are selling in a few years - lease. If you are staying for a long time, purchase. Not sure? 

Factor in 30% Federal Tax incentives, State, and in some cases local incentives,  and you can expect a about payback period of 3-7 years.  

Living in Los Angeles, Solar is definitely worth looking into.


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## elektra (Mar 16, 2014)

Zander said:


> I love solar. It's a beautiful thing.  But for most people who own their own homes, purchasing the solar system is a better deal than leasing
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Equity? Banks will not include Solar in the appraisal value, and if the Solar is not brand new, the value decreases, at ten years old, Solar is a negative impact on equity. Of course you can google this and quote press releases from the Solar vendors, it will be difficult to find a statement from Chase or Bank of America or any other lender, but there are plenty of positive statements from those who sell Solar. 

Its almost impossible to find the truth beings that Google is simply a search engine for advertising, Solar companies have bought all the keywords you will search hence you will only find positive stories on equity and solar. Try and find actual facts from banks appraisals is almost impossible.


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## elektra (Mar 16, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


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You made the statement, I called you on it, provide your links or technical data and prove your post is true. 

You posted a press release from an organization vested in Solar. Weak is your post

The Center of Alternative Energy in Switzerland is hardly a non-biased source. Nor is Switzerland a good place to determine the reliability of Solar with so little intense sun. 

Further, why did they not measure the output under the Sun, why did they take them into a laboratory to do a "Flash Test". How do these panels perform under normal conditions, that  information is not in the press release.


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## Luddly Neddite (Mar 16, 2014)

Geaux4it said:


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Have you noticed your own avatar ....................... ??




`


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## Old Rocks (Mar 16, 2014)

elektra said:


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In other words, you have nothing. Here is where you can find real information;

http://www.oregon.gov/energy/RENEW/Solar/docs/PVGuide.pdf


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## westwall (Mar 16, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


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Are you high?  What happens in 20 years when they need to be replaced.  Where, oh where does all that toxic waste end up going?  Clearly you haven't thought too much about it.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 16, 2014)

westwall said:


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What happens when they don't need replaced in 30 years? In 40 years? 

Testing a Thirty-Year-Old Photovoltaic Module | GreenBuildingAdvisor.com

It should be good for a few more decades of service
PV manufacturers have made several improvements since I bought my first module three decades ago. While my old Arco panel has simple electrical lugs on the back side for wiring, newer modules have sturdier junction boxes. Manufacturers have also improved the encapsulants and the lamination material. (Early modules used polyvinyl butyral, or PVB; manufacturers have since switched to ethylene vinyl acetate, or EVA).
My old module shows no signs of browning, electrical corrosion, or water intrusion. It certainly looks as if its ready to perform for another decade or two.
A PV cell is a rock that makes electricity, said Davidson. Unless something corrodes the electrical contacts, it will still keep working.


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## Zander (Mar 16, 2014)

elektra said:


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Apply some common sense. 

If I am choosing between 2 houses and one costs $500 a month for electricity, and the other has a fully paid for grid tied solar system that reduces the bill to $100 per month and both houses are identical, which house are you going to choose?


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## Papageorgio (Mar 16, 2014)

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Hell, I'm not going to buy a place with $500 a month electricity, I have never paid over $200 in a month. You got some messed up rates.


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## Zander (Mar 17, 2014)

Papageorgio said:


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I have a big house with a big pool.


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## elektra (Mar 17, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


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What are you Old Crock, a Moron, there is nothing in your link, nothing, its a Marketing brochure from the government of Oregon, I know you Socialist pray and worship the Government, you do not need to prove it 

You thought this Marketing Brochure had technical data in it. Get a clue.


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## elektra (Mar 17, 2014)

Zander said:


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You have a pool, so you do not care about the environment, a pool is a frivolous waste of energy, further, you do not pump your water with solar, wasting even more energy. 

Green Energy nuts are all worried about reducing GHG emissions except when it comes to guilty luxury, swimming pools, air conditioning, new cars, drinking alcohol and sodas. Most are overweight because they are gluttons when it comes to food. In other words, they sit back drinking beer at the side of their pool telling us we are the ones destroying the world. 

Get rid of the pool and quit burning CO2 simply so you can have fun, do you not care what your doing to the environment. 

Hell, I bet Old Crock has a pool as well. Never mind how they destroy the environment, that don't count. 

And in their fantasy world, Solar is perfect never fails, right. 

I will post the failures later, and their are plenty of failures. Just thought I would leave this to be digested.


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## Darkwind (Mar 17, 2014)

I prefer this:

Tapping the Earth for home heating and cooling | Green Tech - CNET News


and I don't have to worry about the weather.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 17, 2014)

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My, what an ignorant person you are. Yes, I do have a pool. Heated with passive solar. From March to October, the only cost for heating the pool is the cost of pumping the water to the roof. And this is in Portland, Oregon. 

Tell you what, get a job, get out of your single wide, and live a little. You only get one pass through this life.


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## Zander (Mar 17, 2014)

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Yes, I love my pool, waterfall, jacuzzi, and slide. I take long hot showers too....I live in LA we have the pool on year round.  

But that has nothing to do with the efficacy of Solar power.  

My last house had a 2.7KW grid tied system- and an old school solar pool heater- I paid next to nothing for electricity.  Never had a problem with the system - not even a roof leak. 

Like I said before, it makes lots of sense "for me". If you don't like it, don't buy it.


PS- I have a 34" waist and I don't care how much energy you or anyone else uses.....


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## TakeAStepBack (Mar 17, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


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The irony is absolutely delicious coming from you. 

live a littel, you only get one pass through! THE SKY IS FALLING AGW WILL KILL US ALL!


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## Old Rocks (Mar 18, 2014)

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Well, since we pay high subsidies to all energy producers, I do care how much energy others use off of the grid. Those that are actually producing the majority of the energy they use are a positive to all of us. That is taxes for subsidizing new energy that we don't have to pay.

The economic sense of producing your own power, as you have pointed out, is there for all to see. And the price for large scale, 5 kw systems and above, continue to come down. Combine that with the advances is EVs and the batteries, and, yes, you can have it all without your neighbor having to chip in for what you have. In other words, home owned power, solar on the roof, ect. equals economic independence. Economic independence of the government and the energy corperations. Yet we see so many "Conservatives" totally against the idea. Very strange twist of ideology.


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## TakeAStepBack (Mar 18, 2014)

You do not pay subsidies to all energy producers, dullard. Only the green energy gets subsides. What you call a subsidy is actually a tax break,. and they aren't the same.


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## Zander (Mar 18, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


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Conservatives love the idea of energy independence. For themselves and for the entire country.  The problem arises when government gets involved and skews the market with tax credits, subsidies, and hand outs.  When companies like Solyndra are given govt loan guarantees even when facing bankruptcy, it shines a negative light on the politicization of energy.  We do not need govt picking winners and losers for political points.   

Solar needs to be able to sink or swim on its own merits. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TruthSeeker56 (Mar 22, 2014)

Indeependent said:


> What happens 20 years from now when the panels die and it cost 25K to buy new ones and no one's offering a deal?
> Or is the progression of the technology hopefully going to make the eventual upgrade inexpensive?



You are assuming that the U.S. power grid will still be viable 20 years from now.

That is a BIG assumption.

ENERGY INDEPENDENCE is the key to survival.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 22, 2014)

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Do you have any idea how many billions of dollars our government gaurantees for nuclear?


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## mamooth (Mar 22, 2014)

Best Buy must have really expanded, if they can fit solar systems in their stores. I wonder where they put the Jupiters.


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## Zander (Mar 23, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


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No I don't. Lay it on me...


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## tinydancer (Mar 23, 2014)

You can't "do" just solar. Ideally you have solar, wind and omg a wood stove. You cannot rely on just solar to get off the grid.


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## tinydancer (Mar 23, 2014)

Honest question. Anyone here ever lived off the grid? My husband and I have back in Ontario. It's not easy. Not easy at all. 

We went completely primitive. Wood stove and candles. You learn to appreciate water when you pump it by hand.

I see all these posts by people who think its a "snap" to change over. It's not the case. And you have to be ready for some difficult choices on what you are going to cut out of your life.


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## Old Rocks (Mar 25, 2014)

tinydancer said:


> Honest question. Anyone here ever lived off the grid? My husband and I have back in Ontario. It's not easy. Not easy at all.
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> We went completely primitive. Wood stove and candles. You learn to appreciate water when you pump it by hand.
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> I see all these posts by people who think its a "snap" to change over. It's not the case. And you have to be ready for some difficult choices on what you are going to cut out of your life.



LOL. Of course I was quite young at the time, but we lived completely off the grid for about 6 months when I was a child. Drew our water from a well with a bucket on a rope. Cooked on a wood stove. And had an outhouse. Ever use an outhouse at -20 F? We had no refrigerator, and canned everything, including the deer that Dad shot. 

Would I live that way again. Hell no. I would use a pick and shovel to dig a septic, and use solar and wind to charge batteries to have electricity for a computer as well as lights. Use LED's for energy savings, and super-insulate. Once was enough for that kind of living.


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## ScienceRocks (Mar 25, 2014)

As far as I am concern freedom = having the ability to do something. Why shouldn't people have this choice?


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## elektra (Mar 26, 2014)

Old Rocks said:


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What is a "gaurantees"? Beings how you are superior and we are ignorant. 

Either way irrelevant, tell us if any and how much has been defaulted.


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