# Bad science kills & injures



## RodISHI (Feb 23, 2010)

The Nobel Prize winning doctor Maurice Hilleman warned Merck about the dangers, like autism, from increased mercury in vaccines then pleaded with FDA, they ignored him and covered up the fraud. 

Informed Choice Info provides the list of vaccines, the manufacturer, the microbes, the antibiotics, the chemicals / heavy metals and animal by products of what is in many vaccine products manufactured today. A must see if you are considering one of these vaccines for your children.

The next one kind of makes me wonder....


> Merck Admits Injecting Cancer Viruses (SV40 and others) In Millions  Truthspaces Research
> 
> Merck admits injecting cancer viruses (SV40 and others) in millions
> 
> ...






> By Robert Kennedy Jr. | July 1, 2005
> 
> MOUNTING EVIDENCE suggests that Thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative in children's vaccines, may be responsible for the exponential growth of autism, attention deficit disorder, speech delays, and other childhood neurological disorders now epidemic in the United States.
> 
> ...





Interesting the drug additive has not been approved yet the government contracted for billions of dollars of this stuff anyhow?



> excerpt-http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18846.cfm
> 
> 
> The U.S. government has contracts with several drug companies to develop and produce swine flu vaccines. At least two of those companies, Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline, are using an adjuvant in their H1N1 vaccines.
> ...



GlaxoSmithKline Hid Evidence of Avandia Harm... is just the kind of company I would not like giving out medical advice if I had my ruthers about it.



> February 23, 2010
> 
> Natural News
> 
> ...



Okay I may rethink my vote for Grassley when the time comes if he will fight for the people's rights.


> Two Senators Want GlaxoSmithKline's Diabetes Drug Avandia Pulled from the Market - DailyFinance
> Sens. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) and Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) of the Senate Finance Committee investigated the issue for two years. The report (here in its entirety) questions the Food and Drug Administration's conduct and concludes that GlaxoSmithKline knew about the drug's risks. The senators recommend that Avandia be pulled from the market because its risks seem to outweigh its benefits, especially compared to other diabetes drugs, such as Takeda's Actos, which lower blood-sugar level but don't affect the heart as much, according to studies.





> Novartis has not performed testing for the carcinogenicity of MF-59 adjuvant or any of their other preventive vaccines and has no plans to.
> American Chronicle | Experimental Swine Flu Vaccines Contain a Smorgasbord of Potentially Deadly Additives



Have not double checked this information out in this link but it appears some Pol's do not care for the vaccine program pushed last year. Can't say I blame them. Deadly Squalene not in Celvapan which still contains the cancer causing nano chip  the death chip in reality. | World Peace Now

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgBBwOnmy3w]YouTube - Dr. confesses Cancer & other Viruses is found in Vaccines[/ame]
I am wondering who has an interest in these companies? The next search and post.


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## rdean (Feb 24, 2010)

Don't show this to Republcians.  It's all about protecting corporations and profit.  It doesn't matter how you make a buck as long as you make it.


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## Oddball (Feb 24, 2010)

Kevin Trudeau?......Seriously?

Likewise, FDA approval has become a status of dubious nature, as they are deemed above reproach for such approved debacles as Fen-phen and Vioxx. Indeed, the FDA acts more like a protection racket for BigPharm, rather than a vanguard of the public safety.

Like to take your side, Rod, but your sources are at least as suspect as are the antagonists.


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## L.K.Eder (Feb 24, 2010)

"cancer and other viruses"

"deadly squalen"?

what the fuck.

here is some "science" 

Journal Retracts Flawed Study Linking MMR Vaccine And Autism - Science News


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## RodISHI (Feb 24, 2010)

Dude said:


> Kevin Trudeau?......Seriously?
> 
> Likewise, FDA approval has become a status of dubious nature, as they are deemed above reproach for such approved debacles as Fen-phen and Vioxx.* Indeed, the FDA acts more like a protection racket for BigPharm, rather than a vanguard of the public safety.*
> 
> Like to take your side, Rod, but your sources are at least as suspect as are the antagonists.


I don't think doctor Hilleman was "suspect" in what he had to say. I believe that such reports as his are ignored. Regardless of who the anti's are look at the facts. It is well known that certain cancers originate from the human papilloma virus (HPV) and one hundred other related viruses even if science does not have it all figured out or release all the tests so people can see for themselves. In 2006 FDA approved Gardasil®, this vaccine has crippled & killed young people and these youngsters who have been crippled and their parents are trying to warn others before they take that leap. Reports of Health Concerns Following HPV Vaccination yet FDA approved this for young males also. Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) has been reported after vaccination with Gardasil.
 CDC is dubious too?

Big government's and big phamra's idea is to (force) require vaccinate teens by legislation, WTF. Is this okay with you? 


> Submitted Sunday, January 27, 2008
> *It is a month shy of a year from the moment when Texas Governor Rick Perry bypassed the state legislature and sign into law an order that would require all twelve to thirteen-year-old girls to be vaccinated with Gardasil.*



You don't have to take my side but I will not just stand by and watch this without speaking out on it. My own daughter has suffered the ill effects of big pharm pushing their crap meds out there and boasting the safety of it. As much as I sure don't agree with Rdean, I have to agree he is right when it comes to the money aspect of it. Where he would be in full error is to say that Christians are in error teaching their children it is better to abstain because he has made it obvious he hates Christians that much.


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## Valerie (Feb 24, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> The Nobel Prize winning doctor Maurice Hilleman warned Merck about the dangers, like autism, from increased mercury in vaccines then pleaded with FDA, they ignored him and covered up the fraud.









> Thimerosal
> Information about Thimerosal
> 
> *Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.*
> ...


CDC - Mercury and Thimerosal - Vaccine Safety


>>



> *Journal Retracts Controversial Study Linking MMR Vaccine, Autism
> The Lancet's Decision Could Ease Parental Resistance to Vaccination
> *
> By David Mitchell
> ...


Journal Retracts Controversial Study Linking MMR Vaccine, Autism -- AAFP News Now -- American Academy of Family Physicians

>>




> The medical journal The Lancet has retracted the 1998 article that was the first to link the MMR vaccine to autism. The withdraw comes hot on the heels of a hearing that found Dr. Andrew Wakefield, the author of that article, acted unethically during the experiments listed in the article.
> 
> Full retractions from journals are rare; it is tantamount to saying that the article should have never been published. With this move, The Lancet is effectively stating that the conclusions drawn in the article were incorrect. Put simply, they are saying the conclusion that the MMR vaccine is linked to the development of autism that the article claimed was not good science.
> 
> ...


Journal withdraws the original MMR vaccine-autism study


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## Valerie (Feb 24, 2010)

> *Disease prevention is the key to public health. It is always better to prevent a disease than to treat it. Vaccines prevent disease in the people who receive them and protect those who come into contact with unvaccinated individuals. Vaccines help prevent infectious diseases and save lives. Vaccines are responsible for the control of many infectious diseases that were once common in this country*, including polio, measles, diphtheria, pertussis (whooping cough), rubella (German measles), mumps, tetanus, and Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib).
> 
> Vaccine-preventable diseases have a costly impact, resulting in doctor's visits, hospitalizations, and premature deaths. Sick children can also cause parents to lose time from work.
> 
> ...


Vaccines: Vac-Gen/How Vaccines Prevent Disease


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## RodISHI (Feb 24, 2010)

rdean said:


> Don't show this to Republcians.  It's all about protecting corporations and profit.  It doesn't matter how you make a buck as long as you make it.


You know you are an ignorant shit to think that it is just R's that sell people out for a buck. 
Rep. William Jefferson, D-Louisiana

Al Santoro, the Executive Director of the Ocean County Democratic Party, pleaded guilty today to federal corruption charges,

Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R), now serving an eight-year stretch for taking bribes from defense contractors. (2006)

FBI: Former Detroit Democratic Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick..

Federal Memo Says Torricelli Took Bribes for Political Favors...

The list could go on and on but fact is we have corruption on both sides of these political parties. You can keep shoveling shit or actually be a decent person and get off your stick and demand integrity throughout regardless if there is an (R) or a (D) behind the name.


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## Valerie (Feb 24, 2010)

> *As recently as the 1950s, about 20,000 people per year in the United States were affected by poliovirus. The number of paralytic polio cases fell to less than 100 per year in the 1960s because of the institution of the polio vaccine. In 1994, the World Health Organization (WHO) declared the Western hemisphere free of the wild-type poliovirus. The WHO also organized a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate the disease. They believe the end of polio to be in the near future.*


http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/471910_2


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## Ravi (Feb 24, 2010)

Randy Duke Cunningham is a Republican.

Bad science does kill...it keeps people from seeking medical treatment or keeps them from getting vaccinated.

There is absolutely no evidence that autism is ever caused by a vaccine.

Shameful bullshit.


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## RodISHI (Feb 24, 2010)

Peer review science or just a few bought and big pharm paid for lackies?

Japanese Data Show Vaccines Cause Autism  ________________Child Health Safety_________________








> *Study Shows Ethylmercury Used in Vaccines Ends Up in the Brain of Primates; Environmental Journal Puts Happy Spin on Results Says National Autism Association (NAA);* Study Says Ethylmercury Is Most Toxic to Brain - Journal Paints Rosy Picture Of Ominous Outcome.
> WASHINGTON, April 21 /PRNewswire/ -- A newly-released primate study published in Environmental Health Perspectives (EHP), a NIEHS publication, is getting fluffy reviews today. The NIH-funded study, conducted by Dr. Thomas Burbacher, a University of Washington researcher, found that Thimerosal, best known for its use as an ethylmercury-based preservative in infant vaccines and pregnancy shots, is actually more toxic to the brain than methylmercury (MeHg).
> 
> MeHg has always been widely hailed as the greater of two evils, pushing ethylmercury out of the limelight as "most



Actual government sponsored research can be fluffed off how convenient. Here the push was on for years claiming mercury levels in children was caused by eating lead paint.  




> Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines Containing Thimerosal
> 
> 
> *Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines Containing Thimerosal*
> ...


 Do the math!


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## Ravi (Feb 24, 2010)

This thread belongs in conspiracy theories.


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## RodISHI (Feb 24, 2010)

Ravi said:


> This thread belongs in conspiracy theories.


No it belongs right here and on the front page of every newspaper so people can understand that big corporates are usurping the government agencies that are in place that actually look out for the best interest of the public by ignoring government sponsored studies and reviews.


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## Valerie (Feb 24, 2010)

> Because of the efforts of programs like the Expanded Programme on Immunization, global immunization coverage was over 70% in the 1990s. However, almost 11 million children under the age of five years die each year because they did not receive recommended childhood vaccinations (UNICEF, 2002). In 1999, measles and hepatitis B (HBV) had the highest mortality of vaccine-preventable diseases, with each resulting in the deaths of about 900,000 people. During that same year, it was estimated that pertussis, Haemophilus influenzae Type B (Hib), and tetanus were each responsible for approximately 300,000 to 400,000 deaths. Further more, polio and diphtheria were responsible for less than 1,000 and 5,000 deaths, respectively (Kane, 2002).
> 
> In the United States, there has been a reduction of more than 99% in disease due to measles because of extensive use of the measles vaccine (CDC, 2003). Ensuring the completion of the measles vaccination schedule has been shown to decrease measles outbreaks (Vitek, Aduddell, Brinton, Hoffman & Redd, 1999).
> 
> Hib meningitis used to be responsible for about 600 child deaths in the United States each year and for leaving many survivors devastated. In December of 1987, Hib conjugate vaccine was developed and occurrence of Hib dropped by 98%.


http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/471910_2




Do the math!


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## Valerie (Feb 24, 2010)

Valerie said:


> > Because of the efforts of programs like the Expanded Programme on Immunization, global immunization coverage was over 70% in the 1990s. However, almost 11 million children under the age of five years die each year because they did not receive recommended childhood vaccinations (UNICEF, 2002). In 1999, measles and hepatitis B (HBV) had the highest mortality of vaccine-preventable diseases, with each resulting in the deaths of about 900,000 people. During that same year, it was estimated that pertussis, Haemophilus influenzae Type B (Hib), and tetanus were each responsible for approximately 300,000 to 400,000 deaths. Further more, polio and diphtheria were responsible for less than 1,000 and 5,000 deaths, respectively (Kane, 2002).
> >
> > In the United States, there has been a reduction of more than 99% in disease due to measles because of extensive use of the measles vaccine (CDC, 2003). Ensuring the completion of the measles vaccination schedule has been shown to decrease measles outbreaks (Vitek, Aduddell, Brinton, Hoffman & Redd, 1999).
> >
> ...




>




> As recently as the 1950s, about 20,000 people per year in the United States were affected by poliovirus. The number of paralytic polio cases fell to less than 100 per year in the 1960s because of the institution of the polio vaccine. In 1994, the World Health Organization (WHO) declared the Western hemisphere free of the wild-type poliovirus. The WHO also organized a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate the disease. They believe the end of polio to be in the near future.
> 
> During the 1980s, there was, on average, 450,000 new cases of HBV infection annually. A decline in the number of HBV infections has occurred since that time because of an increased public awareness, preventative measures to decrease the spread of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), and routine HBV vaccination of children and adolescents.
> 
> ...


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## L.K.Eder (Feb 24, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> > This thread belongs in conspiracy theories.
> ...


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## RodISHI (Feb 24, 2010)

Valerie said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > > Because of the efforts of programs like the Expanded Programme on Immunization, global immunization coverage was over 70% in the 1990s. However, almost 11 million children under the age of five years die each year because they did not receive recommended childhood vaccinations (UNICEF, 2002). In 1999, measles and hepatitis B (HBV) had the highest mortality of vaccine-preventable diseases, with each resulting in the deaths of about 900,000 people. During that same year, it was estimated that pertussis, Haemophilus influenzae Type B (Hib), and tetanus were each responsible for approximately 300,000 to 400,000 deaths. Further more, polio and diphtheria were responsible for less than 1,000 and 5,000 deaths, respectively (Kane, 2002).
> ...



Does this mean you support forced vaccinations for teenagers with Gardasil? And do you support the idea of children being vaccinated with vaccines that contain Thimerisal, animal tissues, ammonium sulfate, aluminum compounds, sorbital (orbital) and the list can go on and on. 


Brought to you by Environmental Health Perspectives an agency that is operated by our federal governemnt. National Institutes Of Health, NIH.gov

Just a few of the ingredients used in vaccines....


Hazards of aluminum

Hazards of ammonnium sulfate

Hazards of Calf skins

Hazards of sorbital search results

Hazards of chicken embryo's search results

Hazards of monkey kidney cells search results

Hazards of glycerin search results

Hazards of polysorbate 80 search results

Ingredients of some vaccines provided by INFORMEDCHOICE.INFO


What is informed consent? 

Informed - Possessing, displaying, or based on reliable information: informed sources; an informed opinion.

Consent - Acceptance or approval of what is planned or done by another;
To give assent, as to the proposal of another; agree. acquiescence. 



> Informed consent is a legal doctrine that has been developed by the courts over a number of years. The doctrine of informed consent may have been derived from the Nuremberg Code, which required that doctors obtain the voluntary informed consent of the subject prior to conducting medical experimentation. The Informed Consent Doctrine requires that medical doctors provide a patient with all relevant information about a proposed procedure or treatment prior to obtaining the consent of the patient to carry out the procedure or treatment. Four items of information that must be provided are:
> 
> * the nature of the procedure
> * the risks
> ...



Legislative mandates are a legal force.

Forced - To *compel through pressure*.  To gain by the use of *force or coercion*. To move or effect against resistance or inertia. To* inflict or impose *relentlessly. To put undue strain on.  To produce with effort and against one's will.   To move, open, or clear by force.......


Choice - The act of choosing; selection. The power, *right, or liberty* to choose; *option*.


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## Valerie (Feb 24, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Does this mean you support forced vaccinations for teenagers with Gardasil?
> 
> And do you support the idea of children being vaccinated with vaccines that contain Thimerisal, animal tissues, ammonium sulfate, aluminum compounds, sorbital (orbital) and the list can go on and on.




Nope.  I support the idea of scientific proof vs ignorant fear mongering.

There is a big difference between a medical recommendation and force.


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## Valerie (Feb 24, 2010)

> Publications:
> Vaccine Information Statements
> 
> Vaccine Information Statements (VISs) are information sheets produced by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that explain to vaccine recipients, their parents, or their legal representatives both the benefits and risks of a vaccine. Federal law requires that VISs be handed out whenever (before each dose) certain vaccinations are given.


Vaccines: Pubs/VIS/main page

>



> All legislation mandating HPV vaccination includes some form of parental opt-out.


http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/356/19/1905


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 24, 2010)

yeah, another copy paste job by Rodishi linking bullshit sites and who shows he has no clue about anything scientific. This is what we get in the science forum, people like this spreading misifnormation.

The reality of any medicine, is it needs to be tested eventually on humans, in the safest way possible. Then it needs to be monitored once on the market cause everybody is different, we have diff genetics, diets, preexisting conditions, on different drugs, lifestyels, etc, so a tiny percentage is going to have a bad reaction. Even the overblown Vioxx issue, millions benefited from teh drug and like 2% had the risk of heart disease, and people made it out to be a giant deal.

it's life, even eating new foods can kill people if they react badly to it.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 24, 2010)

Dude said:


> Kevin Trudeau?......Seriously?
> 
> Likewise, FDA approval has become a status of dubious nature, as they are deemed above reproach for such approved debacles as Fen-phen and Vioxx. Indeed, the FDA acts more like a protection racket for BigPharm, rather than a vanguard of the public safety.
> 
> Like to take your side, Rod, but your sources are at least as suspect as are the antagonists.



Bullshit, there are so many rules/regulations by the FDA. It's very easy to get a drug fail during clinical trials, which cost millions and millions of dollars and years to do. There is no conspiracy, FDA is there to protect us.

Vioxx and fen phen wasn't as big a deal as people make it out. Millions benefit, a rare percentage had bad side effects, and when it was noticed, it was pulled


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## Si modo (Feb 24, 2010)

FDA has its share of fuck-ups, for sure.  And, some of those were in gross violation of ethics rules.  Anyway, luckily the FDA successes outweigh their screw-ups.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 24, 2010)

This is so fucking tired, these ignorant fucks who failed HS biology, let alone has any higher level of training that actual scientist do, copy and pasting some bullshit websites and you tube conspiracy theories.

They will claim "look at hte harmful additives in vaccines" but fail to mention its in miniscule doses and well below the dose that causes toxicity. Or linke an article that cites a journal article and then make their own conclusion like  "this causes neuronal cell death" and then when I loook up the article, the experiment is done with extremeely high doses in tissue culture neurons, not even showing harm in actual humans

But these assholes that rant and rave and spread lies and conspiracy theories have no problem benefitting from the technological advances that science has given them.


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## Oddball (Feb 24, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin Trudeau?......Seriously?
> ...


I didn't say it was a conspiracy...It's basically a protection racket for BigPharm, that serves to squeeze out competitors who can't afford the ridiculously exorbitant costs of getting a new medication or device approved. Lest we leave out "orphan drugs" which are effective but treat so few people that the costs of approval cannot ever be recouped in a reasonable time frame.

Then, when bombs like Vioxx do make it onto the market, the FDA gets to wash their hands of culpability for approving the drug, while the pharmaceutical company has to eat the law suits.

Nice work, if you can get it.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 24, 2010)

Si modo said:


> FDA has its share of fuck-ups, for sure.  And, some of those were in gross violation of ethics rules.  Anyway, luckily the FDA successes outweigh their screw-ups.



It's not the FDA itself, but most of the time an issue comes up its unethical actions by the pharm companies.BUt they will end up getting screwed in the long run so not many companies are going to fuck around with fudging or hiding results, as it can lead to prison time for nthose involved.

Also,. the nature of drugs (hence why they continue to monitor it when it gets to market) is that people will have bad side effects, albiet a tiny amount


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 24, 2010)

Dude said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > Dude said:
> ...



But the high prices is mainly due to the levels of safety and testing required to protect people from harmful drugs


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## Oddball (Feb 24, 2010)

The high prices are because BigBureacrat costs big bucks.

A market-based outfit like Underwriters Laboratories could fill the role of the FDA and slash costs by at least 1/2.


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## uscitizen (Feb 24, 2010)

So the tort reform on vaccine makers removing them from any product liability responsibilities was a mistake?


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## Si modo (Feb 24, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > FDA has its share of fuck-ups, for sure.  And, some of those were in gross violation of ethics rules.  Anyway, luckily the FDA successes outweigh their screw-ups.
> ...


Seriously, some employees of the FDA had a history of accepting a few choice ... ahem ... 'gifts' before there was a crackdown on ethics during the last administration.  Most of that bad blood is gone - retired, asked to leave, made the choice that keeping their investments was more desirable than keeping a government job, etc. - and the FDA is trying to reclaim its once honorable reputation.

To the topic, the bad science is the claim that the science indicates that mercury-based preservatives in vaccines causes harm at the recommended doses.  The science does not support that at all.

What is up with all the anti-chemistry threads, Ro?


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## Oddball (Feb 24, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> So the tort reform on vaccine makers removing them from any product liability responsibilities was a mistake?


Absolutely. 

By that same token, holding up the FDA as some sort of indispensable bureaucracy while simultaneously insulating them from _*any*_ culpability for their blunders is equally insane.


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## Si modo (Feb 24, 2010)

Dude said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > So the tort reform on vaccine makers removing them from any product liability responsibilities was a mistake?
> ...


Indeed.


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## uscitizen (Feb 24, 2010)

Dude said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > So the tort reform on vaccine makers removing them from any product liability responsibilities was a mistake?
> ...



True.


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## Si modo (Feb 24, 2010)

You think that is bad, check out this nasty chemical shit: 





> National Consumer Coalition Against DHMO
> Who are we?
> The National Consumer Coalition Against DHMO (NCCADHMO), not affiliated with the Coalition to Ban Dihydrogen Monoxide, was founded in 1997 in an effort to raise public awareness about the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) in our daily lives. The secondary goal of NCCADHMO is to act in the public interest as a lobbying agent in Congress to affect public policy regarding the safety and uses of DHMO.
> 
> ...


DHMrg


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## Oddball (Feb 24, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzLs60ZaNW4]YouTube - Banning DiHydrogen Monoxide - Penn and Teller[/ame]


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## uscitizen (Feb 24, 2010)

Yep water kills thousands each year in America Alone.


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## Nonelitist (Feb 24, 2010)

This is serious stuff.  I was conned by global warming for a while, but that damn dihydro something or the other is more dangerous.


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## uscitizen (Feb 24, 2010)

Dude said:


> Kevin Trudeau?......Seriously?
> 
> Likewise, FDA approval has become a status of dubious nature, as they are deemed above reproach for such approved debacles as Fen-phen and Vioxx. Indeed, the FDA acts more like a protection racket for BigPharm, rather than a vanguard of the public safety.
> 
> Like to take your side, Rod, but your sources are at least as suspect as are the antagonists.



the downward spiral of the FDA began under Reagan.  His fast track approval for medicines...


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 24, 2010)

Dude said:


> The high prices are because BigBureacrat costs big bucks.
> 
> A market-based outfit like Underwriters Laboratories could fill the role of the FDA and slash costs by at least 1/2.



The fees going to the FDA for FDA approval is miniscule compared to the cost to pay patietns, doctors, etc to perform the clinical trials. Along with manufacturing costs, and high cost for doing research.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 24, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin Trudeau?......Seriously?
> ...



What downward spiral? Drugs cost tons of money, imagine if they didn't speed up the FDA approval process, drugs would never get out,a nd would cost even more than they do now.  Maybe there is just more drugs on the market that turn out to have nasty side effects because of the fact there has been a boom of technology leading to a bunch of new drugs during the 20 years since reagan was in office.

I mentioned this before but nobody seems to care, but even Vioxx had bad side efffects in only  2-3%  of the millions that took the drugs, so it was hardly a widespread phenomenon of people dying. Plus the nature of drugs and differences in people make for never being able to predict if there will be side effects or not


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## Si modo (Feb 24, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > Dude said:
> ...


I agree.  Vioxx was within regulation and all FDA requirements were met.  It was a scapegoat for those who wanted to nail any BigPharma they could.


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## Oddball (Feb 24, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > The high prices are because BigBureacrat costs big bucks.
> ...


Who is it that mandates the avalanche of requirements to test new medications and devices?

And what of those that fail to make it through the approval process?...Is that any cheaper?


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 24, 2010)

Dude said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > Dude said:
> ...



What exactly is your point? That they should require extensive testing?  I fail to see how an organization other than the FDA can lower the cost of drug development unless you are saying they should do less testing. And that would lead to even more harmful drugs on the market.  The public already ignorantly think that drugs aren't safe and enough isn't being done to test them, so can't imagine limiting the number of testing required would do any better. It would put us at even more risk.  And many times you need to large number of patients to get statistical significance to know that what your results are factual.


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## RodISHI (Feb 24, 2010)

Let's try to stay at the original OP. "BAD SCIENCE" kills and injures. This headline makes no mention of all science killing and injuring. Further, I'll share an example of why I don't think ALL SCIENCE is bad. Rod is my husband. He was born in Houston, Texas in 1950's. I'm sure there were a lot of fine doctors and facilities available to his family in Houston even as far back as 1950's. Unknown to Rod's parents, he was born with a birth defect which was not discovered until the mid 1960's. 

His teachers documented throughout his first four years in school that while he was well behaved and not problematic he was however, prone to periods of apathy and at times seemed disinterested in his school work. There were several teachers who accused him of day dreaming and being inattentive while in their class. 

One of his teachers had an idea to move him up to the front of the class on a seating chart and his grades and cooperation in class were noted as marked improvement. The school nurse's office was directly across the hall from where Rod's chair was and she had a clear view of him while in this class. This nurse who was provided as a public service to the school was observant enough to watch him over time and it was her decision that he should undergo a hearing test which she herself administered at the school with very limited resources. 

Lo and behold it appeared that Rod was fighting a losing battle with his hearing. He was never allowed to get his head wet or go swimming with the other kids or to do many other things with his five sisters and other kids. By the time he had entered the fifth grade he was convinced that he was stupid from alot of teachers and his dad I might add that he really was not that interested in school. 

Within a year of this dear angel of a school nurse having diagnosed him as being severely hearing impaired he was sent to a doctor who had been studying a procedure which is now done in most clinics in less than two hours. However, for Rod; he was the guinea pig who they used to perfect bilateral tympanum surgery (to repair a child's hearing that was born without ear drums). He spent months at the university hospitals as a child. Surgeries and techniques perfected with him as the recipient that others could have that same benefit. 

These doctors and nurses that cared for him were professionals beyond reproach. We ask now where did all these true professionals go? This procedure that was done is in medical journals and on film concerning this procedure for those who want to look into it more. 

The one thing that his parents were offered was* informed consent*. There were no guarantees nor were there any blue sky promises made to his parents. The doctors did not deny Rod or his parents full and complete informed consent. The doctors left no doubt that *the procedure came with a risk of his death*. It now being almost fifty years later I doubt any of you on this website can know his joy from being able to hear his grand children tell him "I love you grampa." 

To say that myself and/or Rod does not believe in science or that we are scare mongers against it is simply unfair and blatantly wrong. What we need are those among us with our lives in their hands who are morally sound and ethically bound. What we do not need is a crop of money hungry educated idiots who will sell not only themselves but their patients down the shitter for a few bucks. 

That is a problem rampant in the pharmaceutical industry and most industries as a whole. The bottom line you say, is profit. Maybe so in the eyes of some but I would prefer to talk with a surgeon, nurse or care giver who is compassionate and not on the take for a few bucks or bio-tech engineers and policy makers that will obscure information that people have a right to know and make these things mandatory on an unsuspecting public. Bad science people. Bad science. 

Nothing was held back concerning the risks to Rod when he was a child and he knew them as well right along with his mother and dad. So take your anti science accusations against myself and him and stick them where the sun don't shine if you really believe that is the way we feel.

Using millions or thousands or even hundreds of children or adults as guinea pigs without that same comprehensive informed consent that was readily available to Rod and his family in the mid 1960's is in no way ethical, moral or acceptable. Our policy makers need to return to the basics and give up their quest for money at any and all cost and the prestige they think comes with it. If our policy makers, agencies and leaders want the people to trust them they are going to have to go back and earn that trust again. Hiding or obscuring information from the public will not accomplish anything except furthering the damage to the public's trust.


----------



## uscitizen (Feb 24, 2010)

What about the direct to customer advertising costs for prescription drugs?


----------



## Valerie (Feb 24, 2010)

Dude said:


> YouTube - Banning DiHydrogen Monoxide - Penn and Teller





   That's great!


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 24, 2010)

Si modo said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...



First I'll answer your question. I am fed up with the lies coming out of our government agencies. 

Second let me address your claim of a crackdown at "FDA trying to reclaim its once honorable reputation". I believe you may be in error due to the information I have been finding, including the most recent email I received a few moments ago. Just because USDA/FDA approves something does not mean it is in the best interest of the health overall public health and welfare. 

Copy of the email that has me extremely miffed. USDA/FDA is going to approve of this even though they know damn well that these seeds will spread and infect every bit of viable natural alfalfa out here. It appears the rule of democratic law, our constitution and inalienable rights means jack to USDA/FDA and freedom of choice is sure not on their agenda! I do not consider infecting the whole environment with chemicals and fake seeds that will invade every natural hay crop. And they make no mention of the custom haying contractors who will be spreading these GM/GMO seed infested crop residues to non GM/GMO croplands. These GM/GMO infested crop residues will be present in the hay conditioning machines, the mowing machines, the balers, even the hay forks and any handling equipment used in the production of hay. Not to mention the seeds, the pollen and anything else that rides on the wind can infect surrounding croplands. They are ignoring court adjudication in favor of pushing Monsanto seeds and products on everyone whether they want them or not. This is being done not as a favor to the public nor to assist the private family farmer. This is being done primarily and systematically for big agri-biz corporations and the pockets of bought off bureaucrats. If the people say they don't want this what part of no does our government not understand? Either these politicians and bureaucrats will represent the voters and the people from their represented districts or the people will rise up in full rebellion. It does not take a genius to understand that people are becoming fed up with big government and repressive backdoor politics. I think the government is well aware of this anger otherwise not all of us out here who are pitching a bitch would be called potential terrorist. Enough is enough!




> Call your Senators and Representative today and say
> USDA must not approve GE alfalfa!
> 
> Monsanto wants to sell its genetically engineered (GE) alfalfa and wants the USDA to approve its permit application, but consumers, farmers, dairies, and food companies dont want GE alfalfa plants and seeds released into the environment.
> ...



Forced vaccinations. Making something mandatory whether one wants it or not sounds like force to me. If it is not forced and is not in fact mandatory then where are all of our alternatives? Who hid the alternatives list? If they didn't hide it where is it? Anybody have that website showing alternatives available to those who don't want this shit?



> Mandatory Vaccines Override Parental Rights
> In 2007, Texas Governor Rick Perry signed a law requiring young girls to receive Gardisol, a vaccine that claims to prevent cervical cancer.  The outcry by parents was instant and overwhelming, especially when it became clear that Gov. Perry had benefited financially from Merck, manufacturer of Gardisol






> Readying Americans for Dangerous, Mandatory Vaccinations
> 
> 
> At least three US federal laws should concern all Americans and suggest what may be coming - mandatory vaccinations for hyped, non-existant threats, like H1N1 (Swine Flu). Vaccines and drugs like Tamiflu endanger human health but are hugely profitable to drug company manufacturers.
> ...



Or how about FDA raids on Amish farms and businesses...
http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...utomatic-rifles-entered-the-private-home.html


Is this FDA cleaning up it's act? 



RodISHI said:


> Bumping this thread back up. When did FDA gain the power to invade private property without a warrant?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah right FDA has really cleaned up its act hasn't it?


----------



## Si modo (Feb 24, 2010)

Boy, Ro...you are ALL over the place.  You need to focus a bit.

My comment about the FDA was in reference to drugs and their meeting the requirements without bribery involved.  I have to wonder what the heck your Amish story has to do with that.

I mentioned the fact that claims that mercury-based preservatives cause autism and/or other disorders at the doses in vaccines is not backed up by any science and you bring up forced vaccinations?  That has no relevance to my statement about the science at all.

And if you now want to discuss genetically engineered crops, I'll be pleased to do so.  Just, try to use science for support, please.


----------



## Oddball (Feb 24, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> Dude said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Gregg said:
> ...


I highly doubt your doomsday scenario would come about, as the recreational drug market is entirely unregulated and millions of people take those every day, yet we don't have masses of people keeling over from bad drugs.

If that isn't statistically significant, nothing is.


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

Si modo said:


> Boy, Ro...you are ALL over the place.  You need to focus a bit.
> 
> My comment about the FDA was in reference to drugs and their meeting the requirements without bribery involved.  I have to wonder what the heck your Amish story has to do with that.
> 
> ...


Like I said I am miffed. FDA is destroying through its policy decisions in favor of monopolies every basic freedom we enjoy in this country. They are tearing down freedom. That is our basic right to make choices. It is not just all over the board, it is they are stealing away every bit of nature from the common man. 

You say "that mercury-based preservatives cause autism and/or other disorders at the doses in vaccines is not backed up by any science". Yet I have already listed study cases and research links at the CDC. The evidence is already out there and stated in certain CDC pamphlets and studies of these vaccines. Young people have documented in videos the damaging affects that they have suffered from vaccines. Look and you will find they are out there and readily available and are speaking up about what happened to them. Unless you are willing to take their place in their and their families suffering you have not one leg to stand on. If you think that what happened to them cannot happen to you, you are more than naive. Much more. 

The Amish story is just one story of force by illegal means perpetrated by FDA agents. Have our trespass and search warrant laws been abolished? You asked what has me going and I have given you a few examples. Rod owns an acreage here that grows hay and lots of it. It also grows natural food, natural medicinal flowers & herbs. Keep in mind that these plants grow naturally and without any pesticide or fertilizers. Why would he want it to be contaminated with a GM crop? Why would and why should we abandon or relinquish our right to produce and use natural herbs and hay or food crops in place of unproven pharmaceuticals and unnatural foods? What gives this government agency the right to help take away that which is growing naturally and diminish our freedom of choice in what we grow? As long as these crops or plants are legal in the eyes of the law we should have the freedom to choose whether we want to grow them or not. Monsanto is not happy with growing the plants. They want to own them all.

FDA is complicit with big business, bureaucrats and certain politicians in establishing policies which will destroy our ability to enforce his patent rights to the land he owns. It is no longer confined to agriculture as these companies are pushing for acceptance in more than just agricultural products now. They are demanding and are being given free reign over the rights of private land owners who do not want anything to do with them. Do you truly believe that this is all being done wholly in the name of good science? I find it hard to believe you are that naive. 

I'm not talking about a small garden patch here. The FDA and their cohorts are not seeking to protect and grant us full use and enjoyment of this land. They are seeking to circumvent his patent rights which are senior to Monsanto's or any other. There is a world wide push by corporate entities and multi-national corporations to claim and establish their patent rights over his. You can research land patents on your own time. I'm not going to do it for you. The land he has was patented during WW II for a reason. I suggest you research the matter for yourself to ascertain why and how these patented lands were issued. What you find may astound you.

There lives among us studious God fearing hard working people who due to their beliefs and faith do not grow, cultivate or consume plants for food or pharmaceuticals which are not natural. If we the people do not stand up for them what right do we have to complain when the government comes for ours too? The time is now come when the government together with big business wants it all!


----------



## Si modo (Feb 25, 2010)

No, Ro.  *Here* is the science on vaccines and autism, not anecdotes:  





> *Autism and measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine: no epidemiological evidence for a causal association*
> 
> 
> ProfBrent Taylor FRCPCHa, Corresponding Author Contact Information, Elizabeth Miller FRCPathb, CPaddy Farrington PhDc, Maria-Christina Petropoulos MRCPa, Isabelle Favot-Mayaud MDa, Jun Li PhDa and Pauline A Waight BScb
> ...


The Lancet


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

Si modo said:


> No, Ro.  *Here* is the science on vaccines and autism, not anecdotes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can take those vaccines if you want. If you have kids you can have them piped full of it. What you do not have the right to do is make anyone else take them. Enough said.


----------



## Si modo (Feb 25, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > No, Ro.  *Here* is the science on vaccines and autism, not anecdotes:
> ...


Perhaps enough said from you, but to be crystal clear, I have never argued for (or against) forced vaccines here.  I have argued the claims that the science indicates that they cause autism.  The science doesn't.


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

I have always heard a picture is worth a thousand words. In many cases I agree with that.


----------



## Si modo (Feb 25, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> I have always heard a picture is worth a thousand words. In many cases I agree with that.


Yet, the statistical analysis indicates no causation.  Pictures are fine, but thorough analyses can't be beat.


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

The Amish and Autism: Can Mercury in Vaccines Cause Autism? Odd only a few cases of Autism in Amish children and two of these cases had been vaccinated, the other lived near an abandon Mercury mine, WOW!


> After writing my last article about vaccines and autism, I decided to do a little research and look for a group of society that does not vaccinate. I not only found one, I found two. I discovered some interesting
> information regarding autism among the Amish and mercury associated with Thermasol. I also found studies from another group of children that had not been vaccinated, and the results were stunningly similar: no vaccines, and no autism. Hmmm. But the testing paid for by the pharmaceutical companies seems to be conclusive that there is no connection between vaccines and autism..... continued at link....


----------



## L.K.Eder (Feb 25, 2010)

it is hard to find stuff, if you aren't looking for it.


----------



## elvis (Feb 25, 2010)

L.K.Eder said:


> it is hard to find stuff, if you aren't looking for it.



I'm looking for the needle in the haystack.


----------



## L.K.Eder (Feb 25, 2010)

elvis said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > it is hard to find stuff, if you aren't looking for it.
> ...



incidences of needles found in haystacks rise with number of people looking and time and effort spent looking.

incidences of needles found in haystacks when not looking for said needle = app. zero.

effect of amount of mercury in and surrounding the haystack on incidences found =


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

elvis said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > it is hard to find stuff, if you aren't looking for it.
> ...


30,000+ children no vaccines, no autism. Pretty relevant IMO.


----------



## Ravi (Feb 25, 2010)

> I just read, for the umpteenth time, a statement that "the Amish don't vaccinate, and that's why there are no Amish people with autism." This statement draws, in part, from claims by Age of Autism writer Dan Olmsted - and, at least in this case, Mr. Olmsted is wrong.
> 
> I got my first inkling that this myth was, in fact, a myth, when I read this piece in the Combatting Autism from Within website:
> The idea that the Amish do not vaccinate their children is untrue, says Dr. Kevin Strauss, MD, a pediatrician at the CSC. We run a weekly vaccination clinic and its very busy. He says Amish vaccinations rates are lower than the general populations, but younger Amish are more likely to be vaccinated than older generations.
> ...


Do The Amish Vaccinate? Indeed They Do, AND Their Autism Rates May be Lower


----------



## Ravi (Feb 25, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> elvis said:
> 
> 
> > L.K.Eder said:
> ...


Thank you for this fine example of bad science.


----------



## Valerie (Feb 25, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Forced vaccinations. Making something mandatory whether one wants it or not sounds like force to me. If it is not forced and is not in fact mandatory then where are all of our alternatives? Who hid the alternatives list? If they didn't hide it where is it? Anybody have that website showing alternatives available to those who don't want this shit?





They call it a mandate with an opt-out for parents because it is more effective medicine than presenting it as an opt-in program.





> HPV-vaccination mandates, which are aimed more at protecting the vaccinee than at achieving herd immunity, have been attacked as an unwarranted intrusion on individual and parental rights. The constitutionality of vaccination mandates is premised on the reasonableness of the riskbenefit balance, the degree of intrusion on personal autonomy, and, most crucial, the presence of a public health necessity. On the one hand, to the extent that required HPV vaccination is an example of state paternalism rather than community protection, mandatory programs lose some of their justification. On the other hand, the parental option to refuse vaccination without interfering in the child's right to attend school alters this balance. Here the mandates act less as state imperatives and more as subtle tools to encourage vaccination. Whereas an opt-in program requires an affirmative effort by a parent, and thus misses many children whose parents forget to opt in, an opt-out approach increases vaccination rates among children whose parents have no real objection to the program while perfectly preserving parental autonomy.
> 
> Opposition to HPV vaccination represents another chapter in the history of resistance to vaccination and, on some levels, reflects a growing trend toward parental refusal of a variety of vaccines based on the (erroneous) perception that many vaccines are more risky than the diseases they prevent. In most cases, pediatricians have largely restricted themselves to educating and counseling objecting families, since it is rare that the risks posed by going unvaccinated are so substantial that refusal is tantamount to medical neglect. In the case of HPV vaccine, parents' beliefs that their children will remain abstinent (and therefore uninfected) until marriage render it even more difficult to make the case for mandating a medical form of prevention. Even with an opt-out program, critics may argue that the availability of a simple and safe alternative  that is, abstinence  undermines the argument for a state initiative that encourages vaccination through mandates coupled with an option for parental refusal.


NEJM -- Politics, Parents, and Prophylaxis -- Mandating HPV Vaccination in the United States


----------



## Valerie (Feb 25, 2010)

Rodishi, you make a lot of good points about government intrusion, but Si Modo is right....You're all over the place with some of this stuff.  You had me going on post #46 about the GE crops and then you had to go and sling that crap about the vaccines in the middle there.


----------



## Si modo (Feb 25, 2010)

Yes, Ro, your posts are interesting to read and like Valerie said, you do make some good points.


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

"Methylmercury is a neurotoxin."
"One final piece of data regarding thimerosal is worth noting. At the initial National Vaccine Advisory Committee-sponsored meeting on thimerosal in 1999, concerns were expressed that infants may lack the ability to eliminate mercury."

Once again taxpayers will foot the bill for something that should be paid for by the enterprises that should have responsibility. As much as I am glad they are going to do for those who have been injured by vaccines I am also concerned that once again corporate responsibilities are laid onto the backs of the people instead of the responsible parties.





> National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
> Review of Adverse Effects of Vaccines
> 
> *HRSA has contracted with the Institute of Medicine (IOM) to review the epidemiological, clinical, and biological evidence regarding adverse health events associated with specific vaccines covered by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. *
> ...




*Filing Deadlines*



> Charter
> 
> Purpose
> The Secretary of Health and Human Services is mandated under Section 2119 of the Public Health Service (PHS) Act to appoint an advisory commission to give advice regarding the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (the Program), which provides compensation for certain vaccine-related injuries or deaths. The Advisory Commission on Childhood Vaccines (hereinafter referred to as the "Commission") shall advise and make recommendations to the Secretary on matters related to the Program responsibilities.
> ...






> Compensation Program
> 
> 
> * Home
> ...










> The CFR also requires that the preservative used
> 
> .hall be sufficiently non-toxic so that the amount present in the recommended dose of *the product will not be toxic to the recipient*, and in combination used it shall not denature the specific substance in the product to result in a decrease below the minimal acceptable potency within the dating period when stored at the recommended temperature. [21 CFR 610.15(a)]




The charts are easier to read at the link. 


> Food And Drug Administration
> 
> Thimerosal in Vaccines
> 
> ...


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

Ravi said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > elvis said:
> ...


Thank for your perfect example of blind ignorance.


----------



## Valerie (Feb 25, 2010)

>>




Valerie said:


> Thimerosal
> Information about Thimerosal
> 
> *Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.*
> ...


----------



## L.K.Eder (Feb 25, 2010)

no matter what you try to interject, like general critique of the FDA and governmental agencies and science per se, you always come back to the special case of vaccines and autism and thimerosal.

do you have any comment on the now finally rejected wakefield study?

was that bad science that killed and injured?

or is wakefield one of the good scientists, rodishi?


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

Valerie said:


> >>
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you read the charts they do not all match to the 2001 time line, in some they do use it in some they don't in the 2007 updates. That is why I put it all in the quote. 

A lengthy article along with comments, articles, research links, etc. It seems to be fairly detailed in the discussions. One can consider the studies on infant monkeys that show definite damage to the brains. Of course we don't kill baby humans with these neurological malformations to determine if these same areas of the brain are stunted as in the infant monkeys. 


> Only Vaccinated Amish Children Are Autistic - Share The Wealth
> 
> 
> "What's needed is a total study of the sensibility of the vaccine program. Why would you want to vaccinate a baby on the first day of its life?"
> ...


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

L.K.Eder said:


> no matter what you try to interject, like general critique of the FDA and governmental agencies and science per se, you always come back to the special case of vaccines and autism and thimerosal.
> 
> do you have any comment on the now finally rejected wakefield study?
> 
> ...


Put some links up to what it is you are talking about please.


----------



## Valerie (Feb 25, 2010)

>



Valerie said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > The Nobel Prize winning doctor Maurice Hilleman warned Merck about the dangers, like autism, from increased mercury in vaccines then pleaded with FDA, they ignored him and covered up the fraud.
> ...


----------



## Valerie (Feb 25, 2010)

> Despite considerable publicity, there is no evidence linking MMR vaccination with the development of autism. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) website ( Vaccines: HOME page for Vaccines and Immunizations site ) provides further information.
> 
> *The potential benefits from receiving the MMR vaccine far outweigh the potential risks. *Measles, mumps, and rubella are all very serious illnesses, and each can have complications that lead to lifetime disabilities or even death.


MMR vaccine: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia


----------



## L.K.Eder (Feb 25, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > no matter what you try to interject, like general critique of the FDA and governmental agencies and science per se, you always come back to the special case of vaccines and autism and thimerosal.
> ...



are you only in this thread to drop atrocious gargantuan copypasta or do you read other posts, too?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2038536-post4.html

and if you are interested in the autism-vaccine-thimerosal clusterfuck, the name wakefield could be familiar.

Fall of Andrew Wakefield, &lsquo;dishonest&rsquo; doctor who started MMR scare - Times Online

EDIT: link was working, now it isn't. a conspiracy?

another link

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7...ield-dishonest-irresponsible-and-callous.html


----------



## Si modo (Feb 25, 2010)

Yes, methyl mercury is a toxin.  So is water.

One word:  dose.


----------



## Valerie (Feb 25, 2010)

L.K.Eder said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > L.K.Eder said:
> ...






Yes, and just to be clear....It was _already_ established science that there is no evidence of causation BEFORE this recent retraction.




> Journal of American Medicine - 2001 :
> 
> "In conclusion, to date, published observations based on empirical evidence do not suggest that increased MMR immunization among young children is associated with secular increases in cases of autism," they conclude.
> 
> ...



No Link Found Between MMR Immunization And Autism


----------



## L.K.Eder (Feb 25, 2010)

Valerie said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



that it took "the lancet" so long to formally retract this POS study is remarkable.


----------



## Dr Gregg (Feb 25, 2010)

Si modo said:


> Boy, Ro...you are ALL over the place.  You need to focus a bit.
> 
> My comment about the FDA was in reference to drugs and their meeting the requirements without bribery involved.  I have to wonder what the heck your Amish story has to do with that.
> 
> ...


Just ignore him, he just copy and paste conspiracy theory and misinformation regarding science./ How much you want to be he's benefitted from science, the FDA and drugs and medical technollogy out there, that he seems to rail against all the time


----------



## Valerie (Feb 25, 2010)

> "In the world of academic medicine, this is a rare and incredibly severe sanction," Temte told AAFP News Now. "The Lancet has, basically, removed this contribution from existence based on well-documented lapses in acceptable scientific conduct."
> 
> Temte said "extensive and well-done studies" that followed Wakefield's paper have found no link between vaccines and autism. However, he acknowledged that many parents who have been influenced by Wakefield's study are unlikely to be swayed by the retraction.
> 
> ...


Journal Retracts Controversial Study Linking MMR Vaccine, Autism -- AAFP News Now -- American Academy of Family Physicians


----------



## Dr Gregg (Feb 25, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > No, Ro.  *Here* is the science on vaccines and autism, not anecdotes:
> ...



You can be an ignorant fuck and have your kids die of small pox, rubella, whooping cough, TB, etc


----------



## Dr Gregg (Feb 25, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> The Amish and Autism: Can Mercury in Vaccines Cause Autism? Odd only a few cases of Autism in Amish children and two of these cases had been vaccinated, the other lived near an abandon Mercury mine, WOW!
> 
> 
> > After writing my last article about vaccines and autism, I decided to do a little research and look for a group of society that does not vaccinate. I not only found one, I found two. I discovered some interesting
> > information regarding autism among the Amish and mercury associated with Thermasol. I also found studies from another group of children that had not been vaccinated, and the results were stunningly similar: no vaccines, and no autism. Hmmm. But the testing paid for by the pharmaceutical companies seems to be conclusive that there is no connection between vaccines and autism..... continued at link....



the amish story is such bullshit. Man you don't know anything about science. Amish make their own food. THey farm,. don't have preservative laden foods that most people eat, or exposed  to other environmental toxins  most other peopel are exposed to.

Fact are vaccines does not CAUSE autism. Another person that doens't know that correlation does not mean causation


----------



## Dr Gregg (Feb 25, 2010)

Valerie said:


> Rodishi, you make a lot of good points about government intrusion, but Si Modo is right....You're all over the place with some of this stuff.  You had me going on post #46 about the GE crops and then you had to go and sling that crap about the vaccines in the middle there.



He was slinging crap with his anti GM copy and paste also


----------



## Dr Gregg (Feb 25, 2010)

L.K.Eder said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > L.K.Eder said:
> ...




yes, that's all this asshole does, copy and paste and doesn't even know what he copy and pasted, it makes a claim against vaccines, so he copy and pastes it. WE have enough ignorant peopel of science that we don't need people like that suckering them into believe his bullshit links


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

Okay got ya. I could not understand what eder was trying to say. One study dispelled due to lack of diligent measures does not take away from every other study that has been done.




> Elsevier: Article Locator
> 
> Biomarkers of environmental toxicity and susceptibility in autism&#9734;
> Journal of the Neurological Sciences, Volume 280, Issue 1, Pages 101-108
> ...



http://weinertlab.kicks-ass.org/~hunter/temp/RollingStone.pdf


----------



## Valerie (Feb 25, 2010)

The MMR vaccine does not contain thimerosol and it never did!!!!

Thimerosal in Vaccines


----------



## Dr Gregg (Feb 25, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Okay got ya. I could not understand what eder was trying to say. One study dispelled due to lack of diligent measures does not take away from every other study that has been done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, I read the paper. First off, never mentioned vaccines as source of the mercury. You know you get way more mercury exposure from food in a week than you do from the actual shots. Secondly, it was done in 28 patients, hardly a large sample group, hence why its probably in the "journal for neurological sciences' which isn't exactly a stellar journal.

here's an article that talks about mercury contamination in foods
Mercury Contamination Moves Beyond Fish - ABC News


----------



## Dr Gregg (Feb 25, 2010)

There is also reports of high mercury levels in high fructose corn syrup. Since you like pictures so much, notice the increased consumption of high fructose corn syrup increases, around the same time frame that autism started becoming a problem


----------



## L.K.Eder (Feb 25, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Okay got ya. I could not understand what eder was trying to say. One study dispelled due to lack of diligent measures does not take away from every other study that has been done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



it was not just one study. it had a lot of impact, and anti-vaccine activists relied on it. the misinformation to this day cannot be dispelled.


----------



## uscitizen (Feb 25, 2010)

Genetics folks, genetics folks.  
The Amish might not have much of the autism genetics.


----------



## Dr Gregg (Feb 25, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> Genetics folks, genetics folks.
> The Amish might not have much of the autism genetics.



thank you, a big point I never mentioned


----------



## uscitizen (Feb 25, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > Genetics folks, genetics folks.
> ...



Yep never expect true results when comparing a small closed society with the massive open one.


----------



## RodISHI (Feb 25, 2010)

> Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
> 
> Deadly Immunity
> originally published on Salon.com
> ...


Full document written by RFK jr. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrIM2hwrLoc]YouTube - Robert Kennedy on the Vaccine Autism Coverup[/ame]


If it is not thimerosal what the hell is it that is happening or has happened to all these kids?

If there is nothing to hide from big pharma then why can't we open this thing up and shine a light on it?

What could have been contained in this meeting that was so secret not even copies could be removed from the premises? And if you tell me trade secrets I'll tell you that you are full of shit. 

Valerie you keep posting the same claim that there never was Thimersal in those vaccines. FDA chart "Never contained more than a trace of thimerosal, approval date for thimerosal-free formulation 9/29/2000" is obscuring the fact that these did have Thimersal. I am not going to split hairs with you on what and how much a trace is. Any trace is too much for a new born infant, any. Any is too much for a developing fetus. Any is too much for a growing babe. 

The pharmaceutical industry and its cohorts demand massive amounts of money for some type of research which the industry as a whole wants to protect and acts like some black ops military organization. WHY? Patents? Bullshit.

As consumers and recipients of some type of witches brew hatched in a lab which the industry protects, hides and operates under a general atmosphere of smoke and mirrors do you expect people as consumers to blindly offer up their children, themselves or their grandchildren like a wave of lemmings dashing for the sea? 

When the industry as a whole wants to come clean and lift its secret veil maybe then some of the people who have been damaged may even consider speaking on your behalf. Until then, this industry and its deep dark secretive science cannot afford to be left to science. The science you are upholding created the problem and if not directly to say the very least, then at best it is highly suspect. One child in one hundred is one too many. 



> The Search for Autisms Missing Piece
> Autism Research Slowly Turns Its Focus to Environmental Toxicity
> 
> By Brita Belli
> ...


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## eagleseven (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> If it is not thimerosal what the hell is it that is happening or has happened to all these kids?


Genetic damage in the womb immediately after conception? Only 1 in 1000 develop autism.


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## uscitizen (Feb 26, 2010)

I thought I read recently that The DR that did the Thimeresol/autism link research was also using the same methods to balance AIG's books in 2007.


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> I thought I read recently that The DR that did the Thimeresol/autism link research was also using the same methods to balance AIG's books in 2007.


Are you talking the DR that Valerie and dr.dense keep putting forth? 



Provided courtesy of toxnet.nlm.nih.gov


> *Predicted mercury concentrations in hair from infant immunizations: cause for concern.*
> 
> Authors:
> 
> ...


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

Rodishi, you copy and paste, that's all you do. YOu don't address any of the points and criticism of your paper, you respond by copy and pasting more shit, no original arguments. So who really is dense? YOu've shown you can hit ctl C ctrl V, and shown very little knowledge of science.


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> Rodishi, you copy and paste, that's all you do. YOu don't address any of the points and criticism of your paper, you respond by copy and pasting more shit, no original arguments. So who really is dense? YOu've shown you can hit ctl C ctrl V, and shown very little knowledge of science.


That is correct asshole I learned copy and paste from the banksters. The only difference is I don't change the original content to meet my own personal agenda and steal from others. Those who are willing to steal the health of babes to pack their own greedy pockets full deserve no less themselves and I can assure justice will find them! Multiplied by seven times for each innocent one that they stole good health or life from!


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > Rodishi, you copy and paste, that's all you do. YOu don't address any of the points and criticism of your paper, you respond by copy and pasting more shit, no original arguments. So who really is dense? YOu've shown you can hit ctl C ctrl V, and shown very little knowledge of science.
> ...



This smile was made for you 

YOu don't even have an original thought, you take what these bogus websites conclude and think its true.  pick bogus links that meets your own personal agenda to blast science iwth your misinformation

fucking troll, go die of disease and never go to a doctor please, since you hate science so much


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Gregg said:
> ...



Oh yeah the national institute of health and all of the government links are bogus. Get a grip you have ate to much of your own excrement.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



Your copy and paste is excrement. Fucking loser troll, get a fucking life asshole. Enough idiots in this world without shitheads like you spreading more lies


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## Valerie (Feb 26, 2010)

Rodishi, according to the FDA the vaccine which everyone always associates with autism, the Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccine [MMR], has never ever ever contained even a trace of thimerosal.

Thimerosal in Vaccines



Several other vaccines USE to contain small traces of thimerosal (mercury) but since 2001 none of the routine pediatric immunizations contain even a trace.  The only one that still does have small traces of thimerosal, which serves as a preservative in multi-dose vials, is the flu vaccines, which are also available to pediatric patients in a preservative free dose.



The MMR was mistakenly associated with autism because of the timing of it which correlates with the child's stage of development when he would typically present with autistic type symptoms, at around 15-18 months of age.  Eventually the science proved it was a coincidental correlation but nothing ever proved the MMR shot had anything to do with the causation autism.


All of this is FACTUAL info which is backed up by all of the reliable sources I've already posted in this thread.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

Valerie said:


> Rodishi, according to the FDA the vaccine which everyone always associates with autism, the Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccine [MMR], has never ever ever contained even a trace of thimerosal.
> 
> Thimerosal in Vaccines
> 
> ...




Trolls don't address people's responses. Be prepared for another irrelevant copy and paste that doesn't address your point. Or the wonderful response, if its not thimerisol, what is it. Like not knowing means its thimerisol. Ugh, we really need to stress scientific thinking in our schools, as whatg Rodishi displays is just pathetic


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

Speaking of NIH Rodishi 

http://www.nichd.nih.gov/publications/pubs/upload/autismMMR.pdf
Here are some things I picked out of it. The NIH doesn't agree with you, yet you claim you have linked to NIH sources


> Because the symptoms of autism begin to occur around the same time as the child&#8217;s MMR vaccination, parents and families see the vaccine as the cause of the autism.  However, just because the events happen around the same time does not mean that one caused the other.





> To date there is no definite, scientific proof that any vaccine or combination of vaccines can cause autism.


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

Valerie said:


> Rodishi, according to the FDA the vaccine which everyone always associates with autism, the Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccine [MMR], has never ever ever contained even a trace of thimerosal.
> 
> Thimerosal in Vaccines
> 
> ...



Valerie you keep saying this but the fact is you are not looking at what the chart actually says. Traces of thimersal in the vaccines are still listed as traces in some of the vaccines. Babes are injected when they are born with vaccines. It does not give the amount now as the previous charts did for the 2007 charts. The PHARM companies did not want to have to dispose of all those vaccines with thimersal in them when the people rose up demanding a stop to putting thimersal in vaccines. They would have been faced with trying to dispose of toxic waste. Our government FDA, CDC and USDA agencies have been complicit in denying full and comprehensive information to parents and the people when these things are brought to light.

It took a detailed two year study in the Iowa legislators meeting to determine that they would pass legislation, which they did to protect the children here in Iowa from thimersal. Now as much as you may wish to deny that even trace amounts of mercury are safe to shoot up, it has already been determined that it is not. A few post or even a hundred postings on some forum is not going to change that. If Iowa is willing to protect its children WTF is wrong in Washington DC?

I have also posted factual information along with articles and personal experiences from mothers of these children these have detailed information.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Rodishi, according to the FDA the vaccine which everyone always associates with autism, the Measles/Mumps/Rubella vaccine [MMR], has never ever ever contained even a trace of thimerosal.
> ...



No, she's looking at what the actual science says, not some stupid chart. How about my chart I posted? Oh, that's right, you don't address things, you just continue to spout your ignorance.

Personal experience is not scientific evidence. Like the PDF file from teh NIH says, correlation does not mean causation.  And that's the problem with all this misinformation, all these people uneducated in science not knowing how to think crtiically, just seeing that vaccine triggering the start of Autism, and falsely blame them for the CAUSE of autism.


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## Valerie (Feb 26, 2010)

I've read it all Rodishi...AND comprehended it as well....I suggest you do the same.


You are spreading BAD info and you really should stop it.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

yes, great response Rodishi, GFY". Yes, because I outed you for a misinformation spreading troll loser.


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

Valerie said:


> I've read it all Rodishi...AND comprehended it as well....I suggest you do the same.
> 
> 
> You are spreading BAD info and you really should stop it.


I am using the information that is available has has already been searched out. If you desire to get these shots with thimersal in them and give them to your children that is fine and dandy. I don't have a problem with that. 

You cannot disprove that mercury is not inherently damaging to the neurological system of all living mammals. All you and Dgrade are doing is claiming based on a your ideals and a few bad studies or limited studies that these particular products with thimersal cannot be blamed for the exact damages to these children and youngsters. When in fact it is a well known fact that mercury and mercury based products are deadly toxins to living creatures of any kind!

Just because certain agencies within the federal government are willing to turn a blind eye to well more than fifty years of proven scientific findings that have already established for the limits of humanities ability to intake mercury levels in favor of profits does not mean it is all the sudden kosher and everyone should accept it blindly.

Keep muddying the waters if you like but there will always be someone out there that is willing to attempt to keep the waters clean.


EPA limits drinking water inorganic mercury maximum allowable contaminant level is* 2 ppb (0.002 mg/L). *

Information directly herein provided from Table 3: Thimerosal and Expanded List of Vaccines - (updated 3/14/2008) from the USDA.

Thimerosal Content in Currently Manufactured U.S. Licensed Vaccines

Just to list a few single and DTaP, HepA/HepB & multiple influenza vaccines from multiple suppliers can contain 0/0.5 mL in a single dose, Thimersal 0.01%, 24.5 µg/0.5 mL multidose of mercury for these flu vaccines that are currently licensed in the United States.  (DTaP) Tripedia2  &#8804; 0.00012%Mercury, &#8804; 0.3 µg/0.5 mL dose.  DT, No Trade Name, maker Sanofi Pasteur, Inc, Thimersal < 0.00012% (single dose), Mercury < 0.3 µg/0.5mL dose. DT, No Trade Name, maker Sanofi Pasteur, Ltd3, < Thimersal 0.01%, < Mercury 25 µg/0.5 mL dose. Td, No Trade Name, maker MassBiologics, Thimersal &#8804; 0.00012%, Mercury &#8804; 0.3 µg mercury/0.5 ml dose.  Twinrix, maker GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals, Thimersal< 0.0002%, Mercury < 1 µg/1mL dose. Now call the U.S. Food and Drug Administration chart misleading.


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## Si modo (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > I've read it all Rodishi...AND comprehended it as well....I suggest you do the same.
> ...


You are definitely using information out there (as evidenced by your cutting and pasting).

The problem is that the conclusions you reach are not scientific.  _That_ is bad information.

As I say to others:  If you want to be taken seriously in scientific matters, don't play at the science.  You are playing at it.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > I've read it all Rodishi...AND comprehended it as well....I suggest you do the same.
> ...



have you not read anything? GTFO troll! You've already proven that what you say is complete and utter bullshit and you don't care about the truth.

Muddying the waters? Like you are doing with your bogus copy and paste crap?

This statement below just shows how stupid and trollish you really are



> You cannot disprove that mercury is not inherently damaging to the neurological system of all living mammals.



Umm there is NO PROOF that mercury , f*rom vaccines,* is damaging. what you are exposed to in a vaccine, if there even is any, is less than what you get exposed to in foods and from the environment.

NO PROOF THAT VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM. End of thread. It's still not known what the cause is.


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## Valerie (Feb 26, 2010)

Rodishi, from your avatar..........PLEASE don't fuck the children!  






> "In the world of academic medicine, this is a rare and incredibly severe sanction," Temte told AAFP News Now. "The Lancet has, basically, removed this contribution from existence based on well-documented lapses in acceptable scientific conduct."
> 
> Temte said "extensive and well-done studies" that followed Wakefield's paper have found no link between vaccines and autism. However, he acknowledged that many parents who have been influenced by Wakefield's study are unlikely to be swayed by the retraction.
> 
> ...



Journal Retracts Controversial Study Linking MMR Vaccine, Autism -- AAFP News Now -- American Academy of Family Physicians


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## Ravi (Feb 26, 2010)

I wonder if there is a vaccine that prevents conspiracy theorism. _That_ would be a valuable vaccine.


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## Valerie (Feb 26, 2010)

Ravi said:


> I wonder if there is a vaccine that prevents conspiracy theorism. _That_ would be a valuable vaccine.





   If only.....




> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ravi again


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

AGAIN since so many of you want to ignore the EPA limits of MERCURY IN THE WATER..


*EPA limits drinking water inorganic mercury maximum allowable contaminant level is 2 ppb (0.002 mg/L).*

If you want to give your own children these vaccines with this THIMERSAL in it fine. Just don't expect everyone else to go along with that.




> I am using the information that is available has has already been searched out. If you desire to get these shots with thimerosal in them and give them to your children that is fine and dandy. I don't have a problem with that.
> 
> You cannot disprove that mercury is not inherently damaging to the neurological system of all living mammals. All you and Dgrade are doing is claiming based on a your ideals and a few bad studies or limited studies that these particular products with thimersal cannot be blamed for the exact damages to these children and youngsters. When in fact it is a well known fact that mercury and mercury based products are deadly toxins to living creatures of any kind!
> 
> ...


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## Si modo (Feb 26, 2010)

Look up dose, Ro.

MORPHINE KILLS!


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## L.K.Eder (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> AGAIN since so many of you want to ignore the EPA limits of MERCURY IN THE WATER..
> 
> 
> *EPA limits drinking water inorganic mercury maximum allowable contaminant level is 2 ppb (0.002 mg/L).*
> ...



i am feeling sick, i think your posts contain thimersalt. please stop poisoning me, and the children.


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

Si modo said:


> Look up dose, Ro.
> 
> MORPHINE KILLS!


Mercury damn sure does.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> AGAIN since so many of you want to ignore the EPA limits of MERCURY IN THE WATER..
> 
> 
> *EPA limits drinking water inorganic mercury maximum allowable contaminant level is 2 ppb (0.002 mg/L).*
> ...




Again, lack of critical thinking. People drink ounces and ounces of water, so you want to limit how much mercury is in water, cause the more water you drink the mor you are exposed to. shots are a miniscule amount. It's all about the DOSES. Little mercury exposure, no problem. Lots of exposure, then you start having issues

Since you can't seem to get it!

Just like most studies showing thimerisol toxicity, use cells in culture instead of in vivo, and use extremely high doses.


Anything in high enough doses is toxic, even water as someone mentioned.

What is your purpose here rodishi, to look like a fool and continue to do so even when corrected?


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

L.K.Eder said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > AGAIN since so many of you want to ignore the EPA limits of MERCURY IN THE WATER..
> ...



Don't look ethyl. Libtardism kills. CLOSE URS EYES!


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> > Look up dose, Ro.
> ...



Yes it does retard, but at high doses, way beyond any exposure from vaccines.


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Si modo said:
> ...


If a child is 'shot up' at birth and their life expectancy is 75 years, how many shots of your low dose mercury is safe for them in their lifetime? Is a child's life span or good health heightened or increased, decreased or remain the same under your regimen of injected witch brew? And if we include any more of your witch brew that is not pushed out on the market as of yet I'm sure the number of total shots will have to be decreased. Future discoveries not yet shoved out on the population yet. You know, like radiation exposure we get from x-rays. After so many x-rays we're not supposed to receive any more. Right? 

Not to change the subject here but you and Valerie are trying to limit this thing to just autism. There is a full range of neurological damage associated with even small or low doses of mercury. Hasn't Inorganic Mercury been proven to be more damaging to mammalians than it is to invertebrates or is this just more bullshit from your own clan?


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...





Guess you dont' have much time left to live, since you apparently won't use medication or any modern medicine since its nothing but witches brew to you.


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## L.K.Eder (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...










^ Scientists at work, brewing vaccine to poison da chilluns.

you can even see the mercury.


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## Ravi (Feb 26, 2010)

My kids had all their shots and they aren't autistic.


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## Valerie (Feb 26, 2010)

Mon dieu!   






Valerie said:


> >>
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Thimerosal in Vaccines




Third time's a charm?


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## L.K.Eder (Feb 26, 2010)

Valerie said:


> Mon dieu!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that's crazy witch talk.


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## Valerie (Feb 26, 2010)

L.K.Eder said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Mon dieu!
> ...





Watch out or she'll come up with a random article written prior to 2001 by some medical ignoramus.


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## L.K.Eder (Feb 26, 2010)

Valerie said:


> L.K.Eder said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...








these sharks are on the right track, but forget the mercury in the vaccines.


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Gregg said:
> ...



I definitely won't be getting a flu shot or any other vaccines known at this time. Since most family members live to be well over eighty and even into the hundred mark time will tell. Besides, I'm too busy tryin' to "get a life". I am sure glad that you and Val have a life. Where did you guys find it? In a petri dish?


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



Yeah, thanks to modern medicine and technology gained from the science you love to bastardize.

yeah, too busy being an ignorant asshole spreading lies an misiformation and your own bastardized version of science.


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## Si modo (Feb 26, 2010)

Dear God.  This thread is a perfect example of one ignorant in science, but thinking they are not, then being a fear-monger.

Sheesh.  When you don't know what you're talking about, stop continuing to remove all doubt that you are a fool.

Don't play at science.


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## RodISHI (Feb 26, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Dr Gregg said:
> ...



Wrong. My grands canned their own food and did not take vaccines when they were babes. They lived a simple life before science, big pharma, agribiz and all of their associated chemicals polluted the shit out of the earth. 



I agree you do bastardize good science.


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## L.K.Eder (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...



i hope you can profit from the common sense of the population around you.


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## uscitizen (Feb 26, 2010)

Children get more mercury eating fish daddy caught than they do from vaccines.

Or perhaps from mommy while in mommies womb?


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## Si modo (Feb 26, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...


[Emphasis mine]  Bad science...bad, BAD!


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## Si modo (Feb 26, 2010)

OK, Ro.  I'm starting to feel a bit bad, here.  You seem like a very nice person.  And obviously you are quite passionate and enthusiastic about this topic (and other anti-chemistry topics).  But, you are not being scientific at all when discussing science.

I strongly - emphasis on 'strongly' - suggest that you focus that passion and that enthusiasm onto getting better educated in science and how it works.


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## uscitizen (Feb 26, 2010)

I remember when the polio vaccine came out.

Was that a bad thing?


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## Ravi (Feb 26, 2010)

uscitizen said:


> I remember when the polio vaccine came out.
> 
> Was that a bad thing?


Probably. And penicillin...that's some bad stuff. Ah, the good old days before doctors did anything worse than bleed people.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 26, 2010)

Ravi said:


> uscitizen said:
> 
> 
> > I remember when the polio vaccine came out.
> ...



or pre-morphine and anesthesia or pain medication ohter than booze. Yey for the good old days of no science.

My great grandparents had 13 kids, 7 died as a child. WHat did they die from? Pertussis, diphtheria, and disease since eradicated thanks to vaccine.


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## Valerie (Feb 26, 2010)

Valerie said:


> > *As recently as the 1950s, about 20,000 people per year in the United States were affected by poliovirus. The number of paralytic polio cases fell to less than 100 per year in the 1960s because of the institution of the polio vaccine. In 1994, the World Health Organization (WHO) declared the Western hemisphere free of the wild-type poliovirus. The WHO also organized a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate the disease. They believe the end of polio to be in the near future.*
> 
> 
> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/471910_2


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## uscitizen (Feb 26, 2010)

I don't want the govt subsidizing vaccines and preventing diseases.  
Keep big govt out of my business.


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## RodISHI (Feb 27, 2010)

Valerie said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > > *As recently as the 1950s, about 20,000 people per year in the United States were affected by poliovirus. The number of paralytic polio cases fell to less than 100 per year in the 1960s because of the institution of the polio vaccine. In 1994, the World Health Organization (WHO) declared the Western hemisphere free of the wild-type poliovirus. The WHO also organized a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate the disease. They believe the end of polio to be in the near future.*
> ...


Whistle away Valerie it does not change the fact that you have spread misinformation in this thread. For whatever reasons.





I did not once in this thread say that vaccination programs should stop, I am saying basically the same thing as experts from CDC and FDA testified in 2000 to congress, take the thimerosal and any other poisons out of the vaccines entirely, completely and totally period as in none; do not even leave a trace amount. Mercury is a heavy metal and while I"m aware that it is used in dentistry as someone posted, I don't think "they do it so we can too" is a valid argument. We are talking about injecting chemicals directly into a muscle or the blood stream. It has been my understanding and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the scientific community was going to lighten society's burden from sickness and disease. From some of the stuff I am finding it would appear that some in this community are hell bent on making us dependent on them as if they want the problems in society so they can establish a cyclical scenario insuring them of a financial future. 

At this point if the FDA will not or is not willing to take thimerosal out of all vaccines then at the very least give the recipient of the shot proper notification so that they know what is in the shot. Hell even cigarette packages have warnings on them "SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING Cigarette Smoke Contains Carbon Monoxide". If informed consent is too much to ask as a safety measure then perhaps some of our tax money should be allocated for another purpose. Besides, since drgregg denies a monetary interest exists then perhaps that money could be use in another area. It is just like the lie that FDA is claiming that no one really cares if GM Alfalfa seeds are released into the public that will contaminate everyone else's crop and property whether they like it or not. Big-agri-biz is creating another business cycle for hay seed to insure their financial future. What is the common denominator in these two scenarios? 

The CDC, FDA and the AAP recommended that vaccine manufacturers stop using thiomersal. Valerie you should take your own advice and stop lying. Thimerosal, which is properly spelled "mercury" or "hydrargyrum", has not been removed from all vaccines.

You mentioned the Lancet paper. This was Andrew Wakefield's study which was originally written in 1998. This study did not mention thimerosal because the specific brand of the particular vaccine (MMR) which was the subject of the study had never contained thimerosal. That 1998 study did not refer to or even mention thimerosal. The 1998 study was not about neurological tissue damage. That Lancet paper you referred to talked about specific GI tract changes that Wakefield claimed to have found. Wakefield was silent on thimerosal.

However, many other vaccines do still contain thimerosal. These are still being shot into the unsuspecting, ill informed and this fact is listed in the *CDC and FDA charts that you keep ignoring for the year 2008*.

Canada banned thimerosal in 1996 in all vaccines. What is wrong with the American FDA/USDA/CDC/HHS and congress? Russia banned thimerosal from children's vaccines in 1980. It is now 2010, thirty years after Russia, a communist nation banned this crap.








uscitizen said:


> I don't want the govt subsidizing vaccines and preventing diseases.
> Keep big govt out of my business.



Bet you don't wanna help create financial stability for a few elite by making everyone else sick so they can make you pay to try to cure you, study you and take care of you either on your tax dollar. I agree. "Keep big govt out of my business". Those dead children and adults might have liked to been able to say the same thing. Any sick because of this now who are still among us may like to say the same thing. What do you suppose big pharmacy is going to say about them, "you can't believe a word these people say they have diminished capacity"?



Si modo said:


> OK, Ro.  I'm starting to feel a bit bad, here.  You seem like a very nice person.  And obviously you are quite passionate and enthusiastic about this topic (and other anti-chemistry topics).  But, you are not being scientific at all when discussing science.
> 
> I strongly - emphasis on 'strongly' - suggest that you focus that passion and that enthusiasm onto getting better educated in science and how it works.




Si, it matters not whether you think I am educated or not. I want to know since everyone has to be so highly educated, why in the hell there is no prerequisite for common sense for some of these scientists?


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## Si modo (Feb 27, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> ....
> 
> 
> Si, it matters not whether you think I am educated or not. I want to know since everyone has to be so highly educated, why in the hell there is no prerequisite for common sense for some of these scientists?


I suspect you are quite educated, but I would bet good money that your good education does not include much science, if any.  Common sense is not equivalent to correlation meaning causation.  Your kind of 'common sense' in this thread would have one believing that postal stamp costs are responsible for global warming.  







Those who have a basic understanding of science rarely make that sort of mistake.


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## Valerie (Feb 27, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...






  Feel free to be specific about my supposed lies and misinformation.


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## Si modo (Feb 27, 2010)

Valerie said:


> RodISHI said:
> 
> 
> > Valerie said:
> ...


I would like to see that, too.  But I fear that she is only projecting, so we may be out of luck.


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## Valerie (Feb 27, 2010)

Si modo said:


> Valerie said:
> 
> 
> > RodISHI said:
> ...





Well, fortunately people can read the thread for themselves if they want.  



Rodishi has reached official nutbar status in my book.    






Hey Ro, I'll be expecting direct quotes with links to those alleged lies.


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## RodISHI (Feb 27, 2010)

No reasonable purpose to go back and reiterate from your edited posts. The information is available for anyone who desires to look into it.


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## Valerie (Feb 27, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> No reasonable purpose to go back and reiterate *from your edited posts*. The information is available for anyone who desires to look into it.





  So not only alleged lies and misinformation but now I edited my posts?  




Get a grip wackjob.


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## eagleseven (Feb 28, 2010)

Fuck you, RodISHI. Fuck you.


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## RodISHI (Feb 28, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> Fuck you, RodISHI. Fuck you.


TY, sorry I'm spoken for.


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## Si modo (Feb 28, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> No reasonable purpose to go back and reiterate from your edited posts. The information is available for anyone who desires to look into it.


Now, you're just being nasty.  Any edits are insignificant and she has been spot on in her presentation of her points.

You have not.

Now you lie.

Loser.


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## JW Frogen (Feb 28, 2010)

eagleseven said:


> Fuck you, RodISHI. Fuck you.



 Brutal but fair.


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## Dr Gregg (Feb 28, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> No reasonable purpose to go back and reiterate from your edited posts. The information is available for anyone who desires to look into it.



yes, the typical troll response.


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## PixieStix (Feb 28, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> FDA is there to protect us.



Then why do they mandate placing ethylene vinyl acetate AKA carpet glue in the tubes of cigarettes?


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## RodISHI (Feb 28, 2010)

PixieStix said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > FDA is there to protect us.
> ...



Possibly you may find the answer to that question in these links. 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


PREVNAR: A Critical View of a New Childhood Vaccine

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/107297-new-vaccine-by-pfizer-for-babes.html

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/rr/rr4909.pdf

Who owns Pfizer and Wyeth?


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## eagleseven (Feb 28, 2010)

JW Frogen said:


> eagleseven said:
> 
> 
> > Fuck you, RodISHI. Fuck you.
> ...


http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/107297-new-vaccine-by-pfizer-for-babes.html#post2051698

And necessary.


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## Ravi (Mar 1, 2010)

She's an idiot. Hopefully, she won't reproduce.


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## Dr Gregg (Mar 18, 2010)

Hey Rodishi, Wrong yet again. BUt we don't expect you to post back, you are a science misinformation spreading troll

3 Rulings Find No Link to Vaccines and Autism - NYTimes.com


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## RodISHI (Mar 18, 2010)

I don't believe I have to post back anything when you or anyone else posts crap. e.g. "Loser".

You can take whatever course you want to try and derail any reporting or investigative efforts that are out there. It does not change the fact that 324,381 adverse effect events concerning vaccines were filed with VAERS. There are others much more familiar with these events and their causes than me. They are actively accessing and studying not only these events but others and the causation factors. This work also takes time and money. However, tax payers are not funding it via the bureaucratic system of our government. The line was drawn in the sand before I came along. You evidently have decided which side of that line you stand on.


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## Dr Gregg (Mar 18, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> I don't believe I have to post back anything when you or anyone else posts crap. e.g. "Loser".
> 
> You can take whatever course you want to try and derail any reporting or investigative efforts that are out there. It does not change the fact that 324,381 adverse effect events concerning vaccines were filed with VAERS. There are others much more familiar with these events and their causes than me. They are actively accessing and studying not only these events but others and the causation factors. This work also takes time and money. However, tax payers are not funding it via the bureaucratic system of our government. The line was drawn in the sand before I came along. You evidently have decided which side of that line you stand on.





OH yey, more copy and paste bullshit. You don't respond because you know you are full of shit, and this just proves it yet again. If you don't want to be called a loser, stop spamming us with copy and paste nonsense and the inability to form a rational argument.

Autism is not caused by vaccination, and you continuing to hold on to that lie shows you are a loser troll who doesn't give a shit about facts. Everybody has pointed out arguments,n and a court proceeding supporting it also,  and all you do is copy and paste a chart?  Troll


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## RodISHI (Mar 18, 2010)

Dr Gregg said:


> OH yey, more copy and paste bullshit. You don't respond because you know you are full of shit, and this just proves it yet again. If you don't want to be called a loser, stop spamming us with copy and paste nonsense and the inability to form a rational argument.
> 
> Autism is not caused by vaccination, and you continuing to hold on to that lie shows you are a loser troll who doesn't give a shit about facts. Everybody has pointed out arguments,n and a court proceeding supporting it also,  and all you do is copy and paste a chart?  Troll



Use the ignore button, it is very simple you just go to your control panel, look on the left hand side of your screen, you should see "Edit Ignore List" under "Settings & Options", click on the "Edit Ignore List" option and add anyone that you do not want to see in the forum.  You may wish to open a second window to do this so you will be able to read the instructions while you put me on your ignore list. That is what it is there for. 

You do nothing more than try to instigate. Do not expect me to waste anymore time responding to you as it may not happen.


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## Dr Gregg (Mar 18, 2010)

RodISHI said:


> Dr Gregg said:
> 
> 
> > OH yey, more copy and paste bullshit. You don't respond because you know you are full of shit, and this just proves it yet again. If you don't want to be called a loser, stop spamming us with copy and paste nonsense and the inability to form a rational argument.
> ...



INstigate? you post bullshit lies to bastardize science, don't act all innocent you troll.  I'm not ignoring you because there are too many idiots of science already without you posting nonsense and them just going "OK, sounds good' even though you completely bastardize science.

I'm not going anywhere, someone needs to point out, if its not already blatant, that you are a misinformation spreading fool. HOw about you ignore, then you can continue to think you are being smart and posting
 facts.  

Now, get off your computer you hypocrite if science is so bad, yet you benefit from it. phony


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## Abishai100 (Oct 11, 2014)

*Market Procedures*

Modern age populism styled politics creates civil procedure 'street-talk' and effectively colloquializes science and the humanities.  Eco-activists reference eco-consciousness themed pop culture comic book avatars such as Poison Ivy (DC Comics) in liberal talk about eco-activism.

In this arena, science procedure and safety checks are as crucial today as the FDA was yesterday when American fast food chains such as McDonald's and ethnicity-based business eateries such as Chinatown, San Francisco were really taking off.

This is why various media images of self-evaluation equipment such as home pregnancy tests and car mirror cleaners reflect social investments in 'science safety lifestyle.'

Such ideas reveal the cultural demand for crank-shift Hollywood (USA) movies such as "Ghost in the Machine" (1993).






Home Page - CLSI CLSI


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## Delta4Embassy (Oct 11, 2014)

RodISHI said:


> The Nobel Prize winning doctor Maurice Hilleman warned Merck about the dangers, like autism, from increased mercury in vaccines then pleaded with FDA, they ignored him and covered up the fraud.
> 
> Informed Choice Info provides the list of vaccines, the manufacturer, the microbes, the antibiotics, the chemicals / heavy metals and animal by products of what is in many vaccine products manufactured today. A must see if you are considering one of these vaccines for your children.
> 
> ...



No love for corporations, but let's see how this might make sense,

Merck seeks approval of new HPV vaccine azfamily.com Phoenix

Hmm, new HPV vaccine in the works you say? Now why would anyone bad-mouth Merck I wonder?


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## LAfrique (Oct 16, 2014)

You know, this is just an example of the sadistic application of Science & Technology: Advancement in science and technology is supposed to be very good news to humans, but over the years, there have been bad bunches bent on dehumanizing humans with acquired knowledge. Please also see: Most Autism Are Induced - Inhumane Science Technology US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


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## Treeshepherd (Oct 20, 2014)

Just from memory, off the top of my head, my understanding is that the best available data shows this;

37% of the time, doctors misdiagnose an illness or condition.
This includes cancer, especially whether it is malignant or benign. 

700,000+ gnarly infections are picked up by patients in a hospital, per year. 

Though recent changes in law seek to make the process more transparent, drug companies reward doctors for promoting their products. 

Predatory medicine and incompetence are genuine concerns. Certainly, your doctor is not a miracle worker. He's just the same guy you sat next to in grade school who had a knack for getting good grades and the $ to go on to med school. 

Personally, I'm a minimalist when it comes to medicine. I haven't been to visit a doctor in about 27 years. Very infrequently, I'll take 2 aspirins, but take no other drug store medicines, and certainly nothing prescription. My daughter was a home birth. I practice health independence, and have opted out of Obamacare. 

No flu shot for me. No anti-bio tics since I was a teenager. Now as a 45 year old, I no longer get the flu, and the closest I get to a cold is a few sniffles.


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## Politico (Oct 21, 2014)

Oddball said:


> *Kevin Trudeau?......Seriously?*
> 
> Likewise, FDA approval has become a status of dubious nature, as they are deemed above reproach for such approved debacles as Fen-phen and Vioxx. Indeed, the FDA acts more like a protection racket for BigPharm, rather than a vanguard of the public safety.
> 
> Like to take your side, Rod, but your sources are at least as suspect as are the antagonists.


Pretty much lost me on that too.


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