# 7 time felon held at gun point by his victims.....



## 2aguy (Oct 12, 2022)

This would not happen in Europe......

*A seven-time convicted felon allegedly climbed construction scaffolding to enter a seventh-floor condo in downtown Chicago early Monday, only to be confronted by a woman who lives there and then detained by her gun-owning fiancé.*
*
Juan Gonzalez, on parole for his sixth and seventh felony convictions, is charged with Class X felony home invasion.

Around 3:10 a.m., a woman woke up and started getting ready for work in her Loop condo, which had scaffolding rising outside the balcony door. She thought she heard noises while going about her routine, but she assumed it was coming from another unit, prosecutor Rhianna Biernat said.

The woman was about to leave when she entered the bathroom and came face to face with Gonzalez, who immediately punched her in the eye, according to Biernat. The woman pushed back, fell to the ground, and began fighting Gonazlez while yelling for her still-sleeping fiancé.
*
*He pushed Gonzalez off the woman and told her to get his gun. She did. And they both held Gonzalez until Chicago police arrived.*









						Gun-owning couple detains home invader who climbed into their 7th-floor Loop apartment, prosecutors say
					

A seven-time convicted felon allegedly climbed construction scaffolding to enter a seventh-floor condo in downtown Chicago early Monday, only to be confronted by a woman who lives there and then detained by her gun-owning fiancé.




					cwbchicago.com
				





The problem isn't guns....the problem is that this guy is a 7 time convicted felon out running free............


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## Donald H (Oct 12, 2022)

The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.

But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!

Yeah right, it's the felons!


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## Blaster (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!


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## 2aguy (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!




No....criminals breaking the law have caused the incarceration rate.

We don't have to release felons, the democrat party does it for fun and profit.

Moron.....we have not had 1000 mass public shootings this year....

In 2021 we had a total of 6.....43 killed.

Deer kill 200 people a year

Lawn mowers kill between 90-100 a year.....

You should be more concerned with Toronto...gun crime is going up there and there is no end in sight....

*As of Feb. 27, shootings were up 47.7% compared to this time last year, the number of people injured is up 70.6%, the number of people fatally shot is up by 33.3% and the total number of people injured and killed by gunfire is up 57.7%.*













						GOLDSTEIN: Gun violence in Toronto is skyrocketing — again
					

As of Feb. 27, shootings were up 47.7% compared to this time last year in Toronto.




					torontosun.com


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## Polishprince (Oct 12, 2022)

I wonder if the couple will be charged for threatening Mr. Gonzalez with a firearm, and holding him in the condo against his will.   I also wonder if charges will be brought for unlawful storing of the gun- it should have according to Chicago law been locked in a safe and unloaded so that it would be unavailable so quickly.


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## Donald H (Oct 12, 2022)

List of mass shootings in the United States in 2022 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




As I said, heading for a thousand, but that's only if Trump doesn't call his magas to violence!


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## M14 Shooter (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.


This is where I ask you to demonstrate your claim to be true; you will respond by tucking your tail and running away.
Like you always do.


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## 2aguy (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> List of mass shootings in the United States in 2022 - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Nope...those are not mass public shootings, that is gang violence, created by the policies of our left wing, democrat party.  You will see those too, since your leftists are trying to do the same to your country.


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## Yarddog (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!




Moron. Gonzalez didnt use a gun and he was a seven time felon. He attacked the woman, punched her in the face... so what would have happened if her boyfriend was not home and did not have a gun? 

There are tens of millions of guns in the US which are used for self protection. If we were having tens of millions of gun crimes then I would agree with you but thats not the case at all. Most shootings that are called mass shootings are gang related activity. If anything, gangs remain the biggest problem that hurts communities. You can wish all you want for legislation to take away guns from citizens who dont hurt anyone, and you might even get those laws someday, but Gangs are able to access the black market and they will still get any kind of weapon they want.


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## EvilCat Breath (Oct 12, 2022)

Is Juan Gonzalez here legally?


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## Donald H (Oct 12, 2022)

Yarddog said:


> Moron. Gonzalez didnt use a gun and he was a seven time felon. He attacked the woman, punched her in the face... so what would have happened if her boyfriend was not home and did not have a gun?
> 
> There are tens of millions of guns in the US which are used for self protection. If we were having tens of millions of gun crimes then I would agree with you but thats not the case at all. Most shootings that are called mass shootings are gang related activity. If anything, gangs remain the biggest problem that hurts communities. You can wish all you want for legislation to take away guns from citizens who dont hurt anyone, and you might even get those laws someday, but Gangs are able to access the black market and they will still get any kind of weapon they want.


You worry about your country's problem with millions of felons, both in jails and out walking the streets.

I'll concentrate on reminding 2A of the nearly 1000 mass shooting in America this year.


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## M14 Shooter (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> I'll concentrate on reminding 2A of the nearly 1000 mass shooting in America this year.


Who is "2A" and why do you think you "reminding him" is relevant to anything?


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## EvilCat Breath (Oct 12, 2022)

There hasn't been 1000 mass shootings this year.

The more out of control the criminal class gets the more instances there are of ordinary people using guns to defend themselves.


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## Yarddog (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> You worry about your country's problem with millions of felons, both in jails and out walking the streets.
> 
> I'll concentrate on reminding 2A of the nearly 1000 mass shooting in America this year.




You have a lack of understanding of how things are in the U.S. but thats understandable. You're not from here and you have no idea of how and why this society works, and what its problems are. I take it you might be from Russia, that would explain your distorted views


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## LibertyKid (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!


My god is this so illogically wrong. 
Your logic: Guns = Cause of incarceration
I know many law abiding gun owners, who have never been incarcerated. 
Your logic begs the question, are guns the ONLY reason for incarceration? Of course not. So your premise guns are the reason for the highest incarceration is ludicrous. A little search and you'll find that drugs is a primary cause for incarceration. 

Also, you need to read facts about mass shootings. The media love to point out the weekend mass shootings that occur. Guess what, if you read into each of those stories, almost every mass shooting that the media reports are are caused by urban related gang and or urban violence from criminals who aren't allowed to own guns in the first place. Meantime, the majority of law abiding citizens have peaceful weekend outings that doesn't include incarceration, being shot, or being involved in violence of any type. 

I would suggest you take a deeper dive into statistics of the information you espouse before espousing any of it. The problem with incarceration is an individual and cultural issue. The gun itself is an inanimate object incapable of sending one to jail unless used unlawfully.


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## 2aguy (Oct 12, 2022)

LibertyKid said:


> My god is this so illogically wrong.
> Your logic: Guns = Cause of incarceration
> I know many law abiding gun owners, who have never been incarcerated.
> Your logic begs the question, are guns the ONLY reason for incarceration? Of course not. So your premise guns are the reason for the highest incarceration is ludicrous. A little search and you'll find that drugs is a primary cause for incarceration.
> ...




They have to lie about mass public shootings, and use gang shootings in order to increase the number.

According to the Mother Jones Mass Public Shooting database, they use the FBI definition....there was a total of 6 mass public shootings in 2021...a total of 43 people killed.

When deer kill 200 people a year, it is hard to stampede uninformed Americans if you only have 6 mass public shootings......so they lie.   They also expose themselves for the dishonest asshats that they are when you realize how they intentionally inflate the number....


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## 1srelluc (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!


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## AZrailwhale (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!


No,  the problem is that we don’t punish criminals.  Even when we finally put them in prison for their many crimes, our prisons are fairly benign places with climate control and many things for prisoners to do.  In my opinion, prisons should be like supermaxes where prisoners are locked up twenty three hours out of the day and deprived of recreational materials.
Lock up and keep criminals locked up and almost all shootings, mass and individual go away as does most crime.  Most crime is committed by a very small percentage of the population that are career criminals.


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## M14 Shooter (Oct 12, 2022)

2aguy said:


> They have to lie about mass public shootings, and use gang shootings in order to increase the number.


And even when they do...








						Mass Shootings in 2023 | Gun Violence Archive
					

Gun Violence Archive (GVA) is a not for profit corporation formed in 2013 to provide free online public access to accurate information about gun-related violence in the United States. GVA will collect and check for accuracy, comprehensive information about gun-related violence in the U.S. and...




					www.gunviolencearchive.org
				




531 mass shootings thru 10-12.
527 deaths in mass shootings thru 10-12
Of the approx 10800 murders thru 10-12, approx. 4.8% were from mass shootings.
Of the 531 mass shootings, 4 (0.75%) involved 'assault weapons", for 46 (8.70%) of all mass shooting deaths
Of the approx 10800 murders thru 10-12, approx 0.42% involve an 'assault weapon' in a mass shooting.

# of deaths per mass shooting:
240 / 45.2%:  0 deaths
168 / 31.6%:  1 death
71  / 13.3%   2 deaths
> 90% of "mass shootings result in 2 or fewer deaths


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## Muhammed (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!


Yes. It is the felons. Inanimate objects do not commit crimes. Criminals commit crimes.

Are you really too fucking stupid to comprehend that fact?


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## HereWeGoAgain (Oct 12, 2022)

Donald H said:


> You worry about your country's problem with millions of felons, both in jails and out walking the streets.
> 
> I'll concentrate on reminding 2A of the nearly 1000 mass shooting in America this year.


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## Blaster (Oct 12, 2022)

Polishprince said:


> I wonder if the couple will be charged for threatening Mr. Gonzalez with a firearm, and holding him in the condo against his will.   I also wonder if charges will be brought for unlawful storing of the gun- it should have according to Chicago law been locked in a safe and unloaded so that it would be unavailable so quickly.


It's Chicago so who knows?


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## Blaster (Oct 12, 2022)




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## miketx (Dec 30, 2022)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!


Filthy communist liar. Come get mine! You!


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns...


^^^
This is a lie.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> I'll concentrate on reminding 2A of the nearly 1000 mass shooting in America this year.


^^^
This is a lie.


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## miketx (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!


Lying sack!  Sleazy politicians keep letting them out of prison.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!


The majority of gun violence and mass shootings are gang related, but the loons want to disarm law abiding citizens.


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> The majority of gun violence and mass shootings are gang related, but the loons want to disarm law abiding citizens.


Be they gang related or not, it's the gun violence in America to which you refer. So even if your excuse for the gun violence is valid in some cases, it's still just an excuse.

And remember, the bad guy with a gun, was a good guy with a gun. 
Or at least he was a good guy with a gun before he used his gun to commit a crime or murder with his gun.


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> Be they gang related or not, it's the gun violence in America to which you refer. So even if your excuse for the gun violence is valid in some cases, it's still just an excuse.
> 
> And remember, the bad guy with a gun, was a good guy with a gun.
> Or at least he was a good guy with a gun before he used his gun to commit a crime or murder with his gun.


Disarm law abiding citizens, because criminals will give up their guns to right ?


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> And remember, the bad guy with a gun, was a good guy with a gun.
> Or at least he was a good guy with a gun before he used his gun to commit a crime or murder with his gun.



You state this like it means something.


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Disarm law abiding citizens, because criminals will give up their guns to right ?


No, the guns can't be taken away from the good guys before they become bad guys.

Are you interested in a suggestion from a Canadian?


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> Be they gang related or not, it's the gun violence in America to which you refer. So even if your excuse for the gun violence is valid in some cases, it's still just an excuse.
> 
> And remember, the bad guy with a gun, was a good guy with a gun.
> Or at least he was a good guy with a gun before he used his gun to commit a crime or murder with his gun.


Wrong gang members were never good guys as soon as they joined a criminal organization, the gang.


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Wrong gang members were never good guys as soon as they joined a criminal organization, the gang.


They were good guys before they joined and I suspect that nearly all of them had guns too before they joined.

In fact, they were all good guys when they were born, as is the popular opinion. Are you suggesting they became bad guys when they got their first BB gun?


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> No, the guns can't be taken away from the good guys before they become bad guys.
> 
> Are you interested in a suggestion from a Canadian?


Canadians have never had a Constitutional right to bear arms, your opinion on a US citizens right doesn't hold much weight. As a law abiding citizen of the US I will never give up my right to bear arms.


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## 2aguy (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> Be they gang related or not, it's the gun violence in America to which you refer. So even if your excuse for the gun violence is valid in some cases, it's still just an excuse.
> 
> And remember, the bad guy with a gun, was a good guy with a gun.
> Or at least he was a good guy with a gun before he used his gun to commit a crime or murder with his gun.




That post is a lie as well....


========


The Criminology of Firearms

*The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.
While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

========*

http://www.haciendapublishing.com/m...art-ii-gun-violence-and-constitutional-issues
*Another favorite view of the gun control, public health establishment is the myth propounded by Dr. Mark Rosenberg, former head of the NCIPC of the CDC, who has written: "Most of the perpetrators of violence are not criminals by trade or profession. Indeed, in the area of domestic violence, most of the perpetrators are never accused of any crime. The victims and perpetrators are ourselves --- ordinary citizens, students, professionals, and even public health workers."(6) 
*
*That statement is contradicted by available data, government data. The fact is that the typical murderer has had a prior criminal history of at least six years with four felony arrests in his record before he finally commits murder.*

=====

study finds that suspects in violent crime in the District share a lot of characteristics.

*The National Institute for Criminal Justice Reform looked at the numbers for homicides and nonfatal shooting in D.C. in 2019 and 2020, and found that “most gun violence is tightly concentrated on a small number of very high-risk young Black male adults that share a common set of risk factors.”

Those factors include involvements in street crews, a previous criminal justice history and connection to a recent shooting. Often, they’ve been the victims of crime themselves. While the motive for the shooting “may not be a traditional gang war,” the report says, “often shootings are precipitated by a petty conflict over a young woman, a simple argument, or the now-ubiquitous social media slight.”
---------
More than 90% of victims and suspects in 2019 and 2020 were male and about 96% were Black.

The study also found that another 86% of victims and suspects have been involved with the criminal justice system and the average age of victims is 31, while the average age of suspects is 27 years old.

They found that, in terms of prior arrests, “victims and suspects were remarkably similar.”

http://[URL='https://wtop.com/dc/20...dc-gun-crimes-involve-small-number-of-people/[/URL]


Bonus content.......the actual study...

About 96 percent of victims and suspects in both homicides and nonfatal shootings were Black, despite Black residents comprising only 46 percent of the overall population in the District (Table 1).
-----
Approximately 86 percent of homicide victims and suspects were known to the criminal justice system prior to the incident. Among all victims and suspects, about 46 percent had been previously incarcerated (Figure 2).
At least 23.3 percent of all homicide victims and suspects were under active supervision (i.e., CSOSA, PSA, or DYRS)1. At least 64 percent of all victims and suspects had been under any prior or active supervision and at least 76% of homicide suspects had active or prior supervision.
------
Overall, most victims and suspects with prior criminal offenses had been arrested about 11 times for about 13 different offenses by the time of the homicide. This count only refers to adult arrests and juvenile arrests were not included.
-------

In Washington, DC, most gun violence is tightly concentrated on a small number of very high risk young Black male adults that share a common set of risk factors, including: involvement in street crews/groups; significant criminal justice history including prior or active community supervision; often prior victimization; and a connection to a recent shooting (within the past 12 months).
While the majority of people involved in shootings, as victim or suspect, are members or associates of street groups/gangs, the motive for the shooting may not be a traditional gang war. Often shootings are precipitated by a petty conflict over a young woman, a simple argument, or the now ubiquitous social media slight.
-----
This small number of very high risk individuals are identifiable, their violence is predictable, and therefore it is preventable. Based on the assessment of data and the series of interviews conducted, NICJR estimates that within a year, there are at least 500 identifiable people who rise to this level of very high risk, and likely no more than 200 at any one given time. These individuals comprise approximately 60-70% of all gun violence in the District. Nealy 250 specific individuals were identified through the GVPA process but more importantly, the risk factors that make someone at very high risk has been identified in order to develop an on-going process to focus intervention efforts on those at very high risk.

https://cjcc.dc.gov/sites/default/f... Violence Problem Analysis Summary Report.pdf*
==========


> 27 Statistics That Describe How Criminals Use and Obtain Illegal Firearms - Tier Three TacticalThe vast majority of violent crime in the US occurs amongst those that live a criminal lifestyle. In fact, this study showed that the average homicide victim, in Boston, over a four year period, had been criminally charged themselves an average of 12 times prior to their death.
> This doesn’t mean that they are good or bad people, or that they are somehow less deserving of justice, but it does mean they were no strangers to crime themselves. As they say, violence begets violence.
> That particular study also broke down the circumstances that lead to their death. In total, 66.5% of the situations were gang related, and 15.9% were drug related. Only 13.1% were a personal dispute, with less than 5% between robbery and domestic violence combined.
> Now this is only relevant to Boston during the years of 2010-2014, but I would be surprised if Chicago, Baltimore, or other violent areas are much different.
> This leads us, inevitably, to the conclusion that reducing violent crime and keeping guns off the streets is best tackled as a multifaceted problem. Making guns extra illegal, or changing their appearance will do nothing to prevent someone from buying a gun illegally and using it to settle a score.



========

The 1 % of the population accountable for 63 % of all violent crime convictions​
The 1 % of the population accountable for 63 % of all violent crime convictions
===========


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> Canadians have never had a Constitutional right to bear arms,


No, you're wrong.


ThunderKiss1965 said:


> your opinion on a US citizens right doesn't hold much weight.


You have a right to your opinion.


ThunderKiss1965 said:


> As a law abiding citizen of the US I will never give up my right to bear arms.


If you are a good guy with a gun and you don't become a bad guy with a gun, your guns won't be taken from you.

If laws are enacted that limit your choice of guns then if you refuse to surrender said guns, you will have become a *bad guy.

 *(qualified)


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> No, you're wrong.



When did the constitution of Canada include and protect a right of the people to keep and bear arms?
Cite your proof and copy/paste the test to that end.



Donald H said:


> If laws are enacted that limit your choice of guns then if you refuse to surrender said guns, you will have become a *bad guy.


You have a right to your opinion.

.


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## 2aguy (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> No, you're wrong.
> 
> You have a right to your opinion.
> 
> ...



*If laws are enacted that limit your choice of guns then if you refuse to surrender said guns, you will have become a *bad guy.*


Yes....exactly...when the socialists in Germany declared that Jews could not own guns, the Jews obviously became the bad guys.........right?


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

2aguy said:


> That post is a lie as well....


I think that your attitude and temperament alone makes  you a dangerous person with guns.

You've never expressed any compassion for the children who are murdered with guns in mass shootings by good guys who became bad guys only when they pulled the trigger.


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## 2aguy (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> I think that your attitude and temperament alone makes  you a dangerous person with guns.
> 
> You've never expressed any compassion for the children who are murdered with guns in mass shootings by good guys who became bad guys only when they pulled the trigger.




You guys don't care about those children as you run your abortion mills............those children are nothing more than props for your gun control dreams....


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> They were good guys before they joined and I suspect that nearly all of them had guns too before they joined.
> 
> In fact, they were all good guys when they were born, as is the popular opinion. Are you suggesting they became bad guys when they got their first BB gun?


Again, once they joined the gang, they were not good guys and thus your claim they were is bullshit. Most gang members join long before they are of legal age to own or possess a firearm in the young teen years. Criminals are not good guys. So quit with the hogwash and stop being deceitful.


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

M14 Shooter said:


> When did the constitution of Canada include and protect a right of the people to keep and bear arms?
> Cite your proof and copy/paste the test to that end.
> 
> 
> ...


Neither the right to walk down the street, nor a Canadian's right to own guns, needs to be stated.

Only limitations on the particular guns is necessary..

And of course it's proven by the statistics, compared to America, that our system lacks nothing that's essential.

Is it fair to say that America's 2A is largely responsible for most of the mass shooting? (+-700 in 2022)


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> I think that your attitude and temperament alone makes  you a dangerous person with guns.


You have a right to your opinion/


Donald H said:


> You've never expressed any compassion for the children who are murdered...


Fallacy:   Appeal to emotion.
Rational, thinking people are not swayed by such nonsense.


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

2aguy said:


> You guys don't care about those children as you run your abortion mills............those children are nothing more than props for your gun control dreams....


Can you search for statistics that compare Canada's abortion rate to America's, and then start a conversation on the topic?

I would have had to report your comment above if you hadn't included a mention of gun control dreams.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> Neither the right to walk down the street, nor a Canadian's right to own guns, needs to be stated.


Translation: 
You lied.
Not that we didn't already know this.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> And of course it's proven by the statistics, compared to America, that our system lacks nothing that's essential.


This is a lie


Donald H said:


> Is it fair to say that America's 2A is largely responsible for most of the mass shooting? (+-700 in 2022)


This is a lie.


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Again, once they joined the gang, they were not good guys and thus your claim they were is bullshit.


That would be subjective, depending on what you decide makes a bad guy. As is the case with those who become terrorists or freedom fighters.

I'm going to maintain that those who join a gang are good guys, relatively speaking, until they commit a crime with a gun.

I'm always open to hearing different opinions if they are stated in a reasonably rational way. Calling my opinion 'bullshit' isn't reasonable.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> That would be subjective, depending on what you decide makes a bad guy. As is the case with those who become terrorists or freedom fighters.
> 
> I'm going to maintain that those who join a gang are good guys, relatively speaking, until they commit a crime with a gun.
> 
> I'm always open to hearing different opinions if they are stated in a reasonably rational way. Calling my opinion 'bullshit' isn't reasonable.


LOL you think a person Choosing to join a criminal organization that teaches them to commit crimes and uses them IN crimes are good guys? God you will say anything when caught lying.


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## hadit (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> The main problem is guns, which have caused America to have the world's highest incarceration rate, which in turn ensures that felons need to be released to make room for the new crop.
> 
> But still, the American way persists, as the mass shootings are going to equal close to a thousand incidents for this year!
> 
> Yeah right, it's the felons!


In this situation, there was one gun. It was used properly. What, therefore, is your complaint? How did the proliferation of guns lead to this scenario and how would you have preferred it go down?


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## hadit (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> You worry about your country's problem with millions of felons, both in jails and out walking the streets.
> 
> I'll concentrate on reminding 2A of the nearly 1000 mass shooting in America this year.


Care to link to those "nearly 1000 mass shooting in America this year"?


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

hadit said:


> Care to link to those "nearly 1000 mass shooting in America this year"?


Can we first define a mass shooting? 
I would consider a mass shooting to be one in which 2 or more people are either killed or wounded. That would certainly be 'more' than 1000 shootings and a number of victims between 2000 and 5000 or more, depending on police officers killed or wounded and depending on the shooter being killed or wounded. 

I would estimate an average of close to 3000 killed or wounded at least in over 1000 mass shootings.

How do other countries define a mass shooting? The comparison to America is the most relevant factor in this discussion.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> Can we first define a mass shooting?
> I would consider a mass shooting to be one in which 2 or more people are either killed or wounded.


^^^
Someone who knows the only way he can make a point is to create convenient definitions that allow him to do so.


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## 2aguy (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> Can we first define a mass shooting?
> I would consider a mass shooting to be one in which 2 or more people are either killed or wounded. That would certainly be 'more' than 1000 shootings and a number of victims between 2000 and 5000 or more, depending on police officers killed or wounded and depending on the shooter being killed or wounded.
> 
> I would estimate an average of close to 3000 killed or wounded at least in over 1000 mass shootings.
> ...




Wrong.........a mass public shooting is when an individual, or several individuals go to a public space to murder innocent strangers.

The majority of shootings in the U.S. are career criminals shooting at other career criminals......many times in public places.

The two are very different crimes, with two very different solutions.

Mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events....only 12 last year in our country with a populatio of over 350 million.....

The rest are gang members shooting at each other.....


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> That would certainly be 'more' than 1000 shootings and a number of victims between 2000 and 5000 or more, depending on police officers killed or wounded and depending on the shooter being killed or wounded.
> I would estimate an average of close to 3000 killed or wounded at least in over 1000 mass shootings.



You cannot demonstrate a factual or rational basis for the numbers you made up.


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

2aguy said:


> Mass public shootings are the rarest of rare events....only 12 last year in our country with a populatio of over 350 million.....


The number of dead victims in one mass shooting in 2022 alone is double that number!

And one mass shooting in 2017 is nearly 5 times that number!


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## westwall (Jan 3, 2023)

2aguy said:


> This would not happen in Europe......
> 
> *A seven-time convicted felon allegedly climbed construction scaffolding to enter a seventh-floor condo in downtown Chicago early Monday, only to be confronted by a woman who lives there and then detained by her gun-owning fiancé.*
> *
> ...




They should have pushed the piece of crap off the scaffolding!


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> The number of dead victims in one mass shooting in 2022 alone is double that number!
> And one mass shooting in 2017 is nearly 5 times that number!


Look at you, deliberately and dishonestly trying to conflate the _number _of shootings - as was the claim - with the number killed.

How did you develop this pathological need to lie?


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## hadit (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> Can we first define a mass shooting?
> I would consider a mass shooting to be one in which 2 or more people are either killed or wounded. That would certainly be 'more' than 1000 shootings and a number of victims between 2000 and 5000 or more, depending on police officers killed or wounded and depending on the shooter being killed or wounded.
> 
> I would estimate an average of close to 3000 killed or wounded at least in over 1000 mass shootings.
> ...


The term "mass shooting" has a specific definition, and we should not be redefining it to suit our needs.


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## 2aguy (Jan 3, 2023)

hadit said:


> The term "mass shooting" has a specific definition, and we should not be redefining it to suit our needs.




"We" are not redefining the word, the anti-gun fanatics are because they know that the 12 mass public shootings in 2022....12 individuals out of over 350 million people.....are not enough to stampede uninformed Americans into giving up their Right to own and carry a gun to protect themselves from the criminals the democrats keep releasing from jail and prison.

So...the democrats have to lie and make up a massively high number in the knowledge that democrat party stooges in the media will simply repeat the lie over and over again...


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> No, you're wrong.
> 
> You have a right to your opinion.
> 
> ...



The Constitution states that my right to bear arms shall not be infringed any action that limits that right is an infringement.


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## westwall (Jan 3, 2023)

M14 Shooter said:


> Look at you, deliberately and dishonestly trying to conflate the _number _of shootings - as was the claim - with the number killed.
> 
> How did you develop this pathological need to lie?





It's dumb donald.  If he couldn't lie he wouldn't have anything to say.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 3, 2023)

A mass shooting event in the US is 4 or more KILLED not including the Shooter and it is not counted as a mass shooting if criminals are shooting each other and committing crimes.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

RetiredGySgt said:


> A mass shooting event in the US is 4 or more KILLED not including the Shooter and it is not counted as a mass shooting if criminals are shooting each other and committing crimes.


Well, it WAS.
The Obama decided He wasn;t getting enough of an emotional reaction, so He changed the definition to 3+ killed.


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> The Constitution states that my right to bear arms shall not be infringed any action that limits that right is an infringement.


No, your right is qualified and limited in some ways. You can tell me how if you're interested in the discussion. Or don't if that suits your moodiness. We might get around to discussing it without you?


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> No, your right is qualified and limited in some ways. You can tell me how if you're interested in the discussion. Or don't if that suits your moodiness. We might get around to discussing it without you?


No it's not, "Shall not be infringed" is pretty specific. There are no except for clauses in the 2nd Amendment, as a law abiding citizen my right to bear arms can not be limited.


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## M14 Shooter (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> No, your right is qualified and limited in some ways.


You have a right to your opinion.


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## RetiredGySgt (Jan 3, 2023)

M14 Shooter said:


> You have a right to your opinion.


But all it is is an uninformed opinion based on lies and half-truths.


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## Donald H (Jan 3, 2023)

ThunderKiss1965 said:


> No it's not, "Shall not be infringed" is pretty specific. There are no except for clauses in the 2nd Amendment, as a law abiding citizen my right to bear arms can not be limited.


Yes, it can be limited. The quick answer is that you can't carry your gun anywhere you choose.
You and your friends can discuss and digest that for a while without me. I'll check back in tomorrow to see if the dust has settled?


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## ThunderKiss1965 (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> Yes, it can be limited. The quick answer is that you can't carry your gun anywhere you choose.
> You and your friends can discuss and digest that for a while without me. I'll check back in tomorrow to see if the dust has settled?


You can try any amount of mental gymnastics you want and it does not change the absolute fact that the Constitution of the United States of America states "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."


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## 2aguy (Jan 3, 2023)

RetiredGySgt said:


> A mass shooting event in the US is 4 or more KILLED not including the Shooter and it is not counted as a mass shooting if criminals are shooting each other and committing crimes.




Actually, they weren't getting enough shootings classified as mass public shootings with the 4 killed number so obama lowered it to 3.......


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## AZrailwhale (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> They were good guys before they joined and I suspect that nearly all of them had guns too before they joined.
> 
> In fact, they were all good guys when they were born, as is the popular opinion. Are you suggesting they became bad guys when they got their first BB gun?


Gang members were never good guys.  Homo Sapiens is naturally violent.  Good guys make a choice to restrain their base instincts.


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## AZrailwhale (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> No, you're wrong.
> 
> You have a right to your opinion.
> 
> ...


In that case a very large percentage of American citizens will become “bad guys” overnight, but still won’t prey on innocent people. I know a considerable number of gun owners and I can’t think of any that would surrender their guns.


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## AZrailwhale (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> Neither the right to walk down the street, nor a Canadian's right to own guns, needs to be stated.
> 
> Only limitations on the particular guns is necessary..
> 
> ...


So rights don’t need to be stated in your opinion.  That makes sense since your fellow Canadian subjects can be punished for speech.  Only a brainwashed drone like you could even pretend something so stupid.  Citizens of the United States learned the hard way the rights and governmental limitations have to be clearly stated.  After all, our revolution was started by men just wanted their rights as Englishmen respected by King and Parliament.


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## AZrailwhale (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> That would be subjective, depending on what you decide makes a bad guy. As is the case with those who become terrorists or freedom fighters.
> 
> I'm going to maintain that those who join a gang are good guys, relatively speaking, until they commit a crime with a gun.
> 
> I'm always open to hearing different opinions if they are stated in a reasonably rational way. Calling my opinion 'bullshit' isn't reasonable.


When a person uses terror to achieve an objective they are a terrorist.  There is no such thing as a “freedom fighter” who uses terror.


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## AZrailwhale (Jan 3, 2023)

Donald H said:


> That would be subjective, depending on what you decide makes a bad guy. As is the case with those who become terrorists or freedom fighters.
> 
> I'm going to maintain that those who join a gang are good guys, relatively speaking, until they commit a crime with a gun.
> 
> I'm always open to hearing different opinions if they are stated in a reasonably rational way. Calling my opinion 'bullshit' isn't reasonable.


You aren’t open to any opinion that doesn’t match your own in every jot and tittle.


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## westwall (Jan 4, 2023)

AZrailwhale said:


> You aren’t open to any opinion that doesn’t match your own in every jot and tittle.




Dumb Donald openly praises China and their fascism, so that should give you an inkling of the type of mental midget you are dealing with.


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## Man of Ethics (Jan 4, 2023)

This is good news and an exciting story.  But in reality it is rare.  In 2020, there have been *45,222* gun deaths in USA.  Here.

Most people in USA have seen triumph of good guys with guns over bad guys with guns in thousands of TV shows.


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