# Looking for reasonable explanations for the Paluxy River footprints.



## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved. 

The Paluxy footprints have always fascinated me. 







The notion of dinosaur footprints side by side with human footprints. I have heard the notion from scientists that those are not human footprints but a dinosaur? 









I think there needs to be a more reasonable explanation. Those footprints are clearly human or a humanoid. 

Close to where these footprints are found are these drawings on walls from ancient people. 






Are these interesting to you?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

Or how in 1000AD someone knew what they looked like.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

Or how soft tissue was found in dinosaur bones.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Or how in 1000AD someone knew what they looked like.
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Looks like a rhinoceros with back plates? WTF


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Or how soft tissue was found in dinosaur bones.


They solved that mystery a few years ago. They found the iron in the dino had preserved the tissue before decay.


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## Freewill (Aug 10, 2017)

the majority of animals that are on the Earth at one time or the other have gone extinct, what does that say about evolution?  What does that say about intelligent design?

Macro evolution is easy to see.  A bird adapts to environment is easily found but in the end the bird is still a bird.   I would be hard pressed to name on transitional animal alive today.  As I would have a hard time explaining how any animal went from NO eyes to fully functional eyes.  As far as I know there are no fossils that show an animal with 1/2 an eye.

In my opinion, DNA changes are just not something that changes with the environment.  Maybe some tweaking within the specie but not a changing of the specie, from one type of animal to another, not so much.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Freewill said:


> the majority of animals that are on the Earth at one time or the other have gone extinct, what does that say about evolution?  What does that say about intelligent design?
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> Macro evolution is easy to see.  A bird adapts to environment is easily found but in the end the bird is still a bird.   I would be hard pressed to name on transitional animal alive today.  As I would have a hard time explaining how any animal went from NO eyes to fully functional eyes.  As far as I know there are no fossils that show an animal with 1/2 an eye.
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> In my opinion, DNA changes are just not something that changes with the environment.  Maybe some tweaking within the specie but not a changing of the specie, from one type of animal to another, not so much.


Well, the cambrian explosion happened like 600M years ago. Pretty sure the fossil record from that time, and before, is pretty limited..


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Or how soft tissue was found in dinosaur bones.


Yeah, I have seen that. A person at my club is really a fundamentalist. I mean he is a good guy. We see eye to eye about a lot of stuff, but I am sorry. The earth is more than 6,000 or 10,000 years old. To believe that it is only that old, imo is a bit childish. 

For years I have asked this of many preachers. From Rabbis to evangelical ministers. That is this. I have to say this before the question. There are two stories of creation. First chapter and second chapter of Genesis. The first chapter it is pretty basic. 7 days the earth was created. Of course the night and day was not separated till the 5th day....but that is another issue.  The second chapter refers to the SIXTH DAY. It really does not stop referring to the SIXTH DAY. 

The question:

At what point does the bible stop referring to the SIXTH DAY? It describes man and the fall of man. It describes "the tree." Of course that was a tree of KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL. Not an apple tree, like we like to see in countless paintings. I wonder what a tree knowledge of good and evil would look like. 

Anyway, the bible does NOT STOP referring to the SIXTH DAY. Oh, the first chapter goes into the 7th day being the day of rest. Rather quick and then it really goes into the SIXTH DAY and it never stops referring to the 6th day. From the story of Adam and Eve, to Abraham, to Moses, to Jesus, and all the way through to revelation. 

It does say something in some places where WE SHALL enter into the Spirits rest. 

Leads me to the next questions. 

Are we still within the 6th day? Has the day of rest come yet? Is that judgement day? 

I know I am trying to be all logical with my human pea brain here. I do know many religious notions have been proven absurdly wrong over the years. We can do the easy thing and blame the "Catholic Church" which is rather easy. Of course that is more of a temptation than anything else. Rather a cop out. 

The point is fundamentalist thinking has been quite damaging, no matter what religion. Actually, no matter what system of beliefs, which includes atheism. 

I guess these questions have perplexed me over the years.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

TNHarley said:


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That's the story they give.  Maybe a decade. Maybe a century.  But 700 million years? Pffft.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

TNHarley said:


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As a matter of fact, i believe they started going back and found soft tissue was found in thousands of fino fossils. They never looked because tissue wouldnt have survived that long.. But they were iron rich, apparently.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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I think they found soft tissue from 70-200M years ago.


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## Billy_Kinetta (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


> I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved.
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Time travelers.  Future beachgoers making a pet of Dino.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


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I have no idea how old the earth is.  I just try to keep an open mind.  Like the OP. How, why?

But we do know that time is not a constant like once believed.  And there is a ton of evidence of the flood.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

If humans and dinos lived together, why is there not historical documentation of it? The cambodian temple was built like 800-1000 years ago... I mean.. come on...
Why no recent fossils? Animals today couldnt have evolved from dinos in thousands of years. I believe the fastest change in evolution is melanin. And that still takes a couple thousand years..
That carving could just as easily been carved recently. It doesnt even look like any dino that we know of.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

The only thing I know beyond the shadow of all doubt is if there is a hell.....

Well let me just say I am worse than anything Judas did. That is for sure. Besides, Hebrews 6:4-6 seals my fate.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

TNHarley said:


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I believe people make up stuff to fit a preconceived notion that it must be 200 million years without questioning is that timeline really true or not.


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## Freewill (Aug 10, 2017)

TNHarley said:


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 That is why we talk evidence and not just time.  In other words anything can be explained if time is the only answer.  Such as the eye.  How could it develop, the answer is always, given enough time it could evolve.  So if the evidence is limited because of time that does not prove munch, it just proves that there isn't evidence.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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link to that?


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

TNHarley said:


> If humans and dinos lived together, why is there not historical documentation of it? The cambodian temple was built like 800-1000 years ago... I mean.. come on...
> Why no recent fossils? Animals today couldnt have evolved from dinos in thousands of years. I believe the fastest change in evolution is melanin. And that still takes a couple thousand years..
> That carving could just as easily been carved recently. It doesnt even look like any dino that we know of.


I tend to agree, but those footprints. There has to be something better than the notion that they are not human footprints. That is what is being said, and to me that is really not all that reasonable. Those are clear humans....or humanoid beings making those prints. Along with clear dino prints. 

Is there anything that you know of that explains those? Just curious.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Freewill said:


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Well, i think its not so much "time" as it is their size and location of the fossil. 
We found a 550M trilobyte a couple years ago only because of erosion.


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## Freewill (Aug 10, 2017)

TNHarley said:


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What point are you making?


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

Freewill said:


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Do we believe there was a such thing as a pangea at one point IN TIME? How long does it take continents to drift? How long did it take for the continents to drift apart? 

Many of those mountain ranges have been CREATED by tectonic plates slamming into one another. I mean how long have they been drifting? 

I was told if I believe the earth is any older than 6000 years old, that I am going to hell. Let me put it that way. Is that true?


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


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Well, millions of years of mud backflow and infilling could manipulate the original prints. Also, some of the "toes" look like claws. Its also possible that someone could have went in and carved that stuff. Man, TBH, i think even most creatonist groups have disregarded those prints.
 Irregardless, it is crazy though! Really makes you think!


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Freewill said:


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You said there isnt proof of "half eyes" and i explained how that excuse is easily justifiable.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


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The earth being that young is absolutely preposterous


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

TNHarley said:


> If humans and dinos lived together, why is there not historical documentation of it? The cambodian temple was built like 800-1000 years ago... I mean.. come on...
> Why no recent fossils? Animals today couldnt have evolved from dinos in thousands of years. I believe the fastest change in evolution is melanin. And that still takes a couple thousand years..
> That carving could just as easily been carved recently. It doesnt even look like any dino that we know of.


I was walking around inside one of the first Lutheran churches in Estonia a few years ago. Because most people could not read back then they had a bunch of paintings showing Bible scenes.  I stopped in my tracks when I got to Job.
How did they know?  This dino was not discovered for another 400 years.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

TNHarley said:


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If God created Adam, God did not put a fetus out in the garden, He created an adult.  Same could be said about the universe.


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## miketx (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


> I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved.
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Perhaps the foot prints were not made at the same time?


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## miketx (Aug 10, 2017)




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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

miketx said:


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So rock turned to mud, the dino tracks did not erode, and it all turned to rock again?


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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How old is that picture though?


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## miketx (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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I don't know, I was just offering one possible maybe.


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## Freewill (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


> I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved.
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FOSSILS OF 'MAN TRACKS' SHOWN TO BE DINOSAURIAN


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


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A lot happened in the flood. Grand Canyon is too young they say.  But that's because they used the preconceived assumption the earth is billions of years old.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

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Adam being an adult is complete assumption, isnt it?


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


> I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved.
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First of all, the Paluxy River footprints are faked. That has been proven. I mean come on, look at that footprint. That's a cartoon dinosaur footprint.

Secondly, and maybe I should have started off with this, i believe that evolution is a creation of God.

In addition, dinosaur bones have been either dug up or picked up off the ground for millennia. Possibly many humans have tried to piece them together before. Also possible is that whole or nearly whole skeletons were found by ancient people. Not surprising that they might get some idea of what they looked like.

People theorize that dinosaur bones and skeletons gave rise to tales of dragons and sea monsters.


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## Freewill (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


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First of all I seriously doubt anyone actually told you that, not saying you are lying you are just misremembering or something.

Secondly, no you will not go to Hell for not believing that the Earth is 6000 years old


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Freewill said:


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I have heard some crazy shit from religious peoples. JS


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

One other aspect they always conveniently overlook: All of the intact fossil finds.  Put a carcass out in a field. A year later you will not find anything there. Bones will be scattered all over from the animals devouring it.  An intact fossil requires immediate burial in mud.  You know, something like a big flood would do.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

miketx said:


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Yeah, that is certainly being implied. 

However, I don't see how that would disprove evolution. I mean there is a lot evidence that species have evolved. 

I don't think those issues need to be mutually exclusive. We as humans tend to prop up our pride with this issue, which is why I tend to avoid the issue.

If anything, all we have are unanswerable or rhetorical questions.

We cannot just dismiss science in order to satisfy paradigms. At the same time scientists should consider there is more to life than what we can measure.

When you think about it, science is all about measurement. How long ago? How hot? How much? How far? How fast? All of science is about measurement.

The main reason why the poet and the scientist tend to clash. Cause the poet tends to define the things that cannot be measured. Like love, hate, inspiration, on and on. Those things cannot be measured and so therefore to many scientists do not really exist. Those things may be far more essential than any of the stuff they do measure. 

Anyway.....

How long does it take the continents to drift apart? For some reason every time I ask a fundamentalist that, they get upset. Not being sarcastic. Do they think pangea only took a couple thousand years to drift apart?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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People from all walks of life say crazy stuff.  And it is called crazy because there is no supporting evidence behind it.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

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Oh absolutely. I was just saying i wouldnt put it past someone to say that.


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## miketx (Aug 10, 2017)

I certainly don't know. having been there and seen the prints, I just said what I said. but who knows?


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> One other aspect they always conveniently overlook: All of the intact fossil finds.  Put a carcass out in a field. A year later you will not find anything there. Bones will be scattered all over from the animals devouring it.  An intact fossil requires immediate burial in mud.  You know, something like a big flood would do.


Or from an asteroid lol


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 i love your threads on history!
You always bring up interesting things.
Thanks man


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

In order for DNA to reproduce there are bio machines that must work perfectly. They uncoil, strip, divide, align, mend, recoil.




How did all of these machines evolve at the same time?

At no point in science can you find where something becomes more complex over time.  Everything degrades.  Except in evolution.  Supposedly new code is inserted into the DNA strand out of no where and this code works perfectly.  Try making a few random changes to the code in your Windows 10 software and tell us how improved it is.  And life is much more complex than Windows 10.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> One other aspect they always conveniently overlook: All of the intact fossil finds.  Put a carcass out in a field. A year later you will not find anything there. Bones will be scattered all over from the animals devouring it.  An intact fossil requires immediate burial in mud.  You know, something like a big flood would do.



Or a tar pit, or a flash flood, or a mass extinction. Aside from those facts you must understand that there were thousands of species of dinosaurs at any given time and perhaps millions of each species. They all die. Yet we don't have the bones from every one of them. That's because 99.9999% of the time, what you described actually did happen.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> In order for DNA to reproduce there are bio machines that must work perfectly.
> View attachment 142935
> How did all of these machines evolve at the same time?
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> At no point in science can you find where something becomes more complex over time.  Everything degrades.  Except in evolution.  Supposedly new code is inserted into the DNA strand out of no where and this code works perfectly.  Try making a few random changes to the code in your Windows 10 software and tell us how improved it is.  And life is much more complex than Windows 10.



There is a flaw in your logic. Here it is:

"Supposedly new code is inserted into the DNA strand out of no where and this code works perfectly"

99.99999% of the time mutations in the DNA code do absolutely nothing. Sometimes they can kill and sometimes they are beneficial. The more often DNA is exchanged(sexual reproduction) the more you roll that DNA dice. That's why viruses, which reproduce daily, can evolve almost immediately whereas more complex organisms like us can take millennia.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

PredFan said:


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So we just happen to find thousands of creatures immediately covered by mud?  Pffft.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

PredFan said:


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Any mutation in DNA will have an impact.  A negative impact.  There is no DNA code that is not programed to do something. You take that away, and things go badly for that living thing.

A virus is not changing it's DNA, it merely changes shape to prevent white blood cells from clinging to it.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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You also have to understand that any particular species, T-Rex say, roamed the earth for tens of thousands of years. That's a lot of dead T-Rexes. Yet what do we have, like six complete skeletons?

How is that hard to believe?


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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That just simply isn't true. 

What do you think determines the shape of the virus? That's right, it's DNA.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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The DNA in a virus says it can change shape, the DNA is not changing.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

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I didnt think we had any. We have "sue" which is like 80 or 85% complete. The others are like 50 and 60%. Maybe i am wrong?


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

No one wants to discuss pangea? The one thing I know in regards to history is there is NO suggestion that Egyptians walked around South America. Unless we want to talk about the Mayan temples.

Nothing suggests that the continents were together as one during the time of the pharaohs and Moses. Is there? Do we think the continents were one during that time?

How long do continents or how long did it take pangea to separate out into the 5 distinct continents that we know today?

Was there an ice age? Nothing like that at all? When was the ice age? No writings about that. That was a pretty major time in earths history. Unless we are saying that there was no ice age.

There is A LOT and I mean A LOT of evidence that there was a major ice age period. How long ago was that and how long did that last? 100 years?

How fast do continents drift?

Just curious. Do we have factual data in regards to that?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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I'm going fossil hunting next week.  I will likely find dozens of intact fossils.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


> No one wants to discuss pangea? The one thing I know in regards to history is there is NO suggestion that Egyptians walked around South America. Unless we want to talk about the Mayan temples.
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Ice ages last for thousands of years. The last one lasted like 10K years..
Also, they were "kings" not pharaohs. I know some historical data(biblical interpretations) calls them that, but the egyptians didnt. Alot of people dont know that.
That also has led to me to question whether the bible was even talking about Egypt in Exodus or not..


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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I have read about marine fossils found on MT Everest.






Not sure if that is an actual example from Everest, but I believe there are ones like that.

If it is true that fossils of MARINE ANIMALS are on Everest, which is around 30K feet high, how long did the Himalayas take to rise so high out of sea level?

Just curious.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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There are two possibilities.
It took hundreds of billions of years for the continents to press it up.
Or during the flood the earth was reformed.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

TNHarley said:


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I know after Adam and Eve left the garden that there were all of sudden thousands of people everywhere. 

That is a lot of kids that she had.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

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If God knows all, why would he only make 2 people? Wouldnt he know incest causes defects? Was his goal a bunch of physical deformities and retards?
And i believe you are correct. Wasnt Cain scared of being killed when he got kicked out of Eden?
Maybe that story was just a metaphor? (lol)


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Well, the hundreds of billions comment is you being sarcastic. I get that.

The flood came after Moses, right? Obviously after Abraham. Were the continents one continent during the time of Pharoah and Moses?

Did the bible refer to how long the actual flood lasted? There were no mountain ranges before the flood? How long does it take for the mountain ranges to be formed?

I guess a blink of an eye or something. I don't know. I am confused.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

More signs of a global flood are all around us.  Top photo can be passed off as layering over millions of years.  It was created in a few weeks by Mt St Helens.
Bottom photo shows a typical layering. One thing you will never find in layering like this is evidence of water flow.  If that took millions of years to form, where are the creeks and rivers?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Why aren't you asking that question to those who think life began in a pond?


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

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That is a very good point weather!


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> More signs of a global flood are all around us.  Top photo can be passed off as layering over millions of years.  It was created in a few weeks by Mt St Helens.
> Bottom photo shows a typical layering. One thing you will never find in layering like this is evidence of water flow.  If that took millions of years to form, where are the creeks and rivers?
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I thought if there was a flood there would be evidence of creeks and rivers everywhere. I think there is wind erosion too. Along with many other things. 

Then as sediment piles up and pressure builds they turn into rock over time? 

I am guessing. I am not a geologist. I have a feeling though that even if a geologist told us, some people would not believe them.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

There is no evidence of a worldwide flood a few thousand years ago. There are many examples of flooding, though. Which, only makes sense as that is normal.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Dozens of full skeletons? No, you won't. Even in your scenario, many animals that consume flesh shit out the bones. If you were to find dozens of full skeletons, then you might have a valid argument, but you would also be famous.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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It took millennia, but remember, the age of dinos was in tens and hundreds of millions of years. Well before Everest.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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 The virus is not that complicated. Plus a change in shape does not turn a harmless-to-humans virus into a man-killer, or change its transmission ability.

We are a bit off the track here. The point is that the more often an organism reproduces, the more frequently mutations happen.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Maybe, maybe I'm wrong. The point though is that it isn't hard to understand why we have the amount of bones we have. If you think about it.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


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> > More signs of a global flood are all around us.  Top photo can be passed off as layering over millions of years.  It was created in a few weeks by Mt St Helens.
> ...


I'm referring to the layering. We find no evidence of creeks or rivers because that layering happened rapidly.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Yes, I will find dozens of fossilized fish and other sea creatures. Which I can only find because they were rapidly buried in mud.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


> No one wants to discuss pangea? The one thing I know in regards to history is there is NO suggestion that Egyptians walked around South America. Unless we want to talk about the Mayan temples.
> 
> Nothing suggests that the continents were together as one during the time of the pharaohs and Moses. Is there? Do we think the continents were one during that time?
> 
> ...



The continents move excruciatingly slowly. There was very little difference between a map of the world today and the days the pyramids were built.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Yeah, but why only six or T rexes? My fundementalist friend is convinced they were killed in the flood.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

PredFan said:


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You're the one who claims viruses proves DNA mutates. Now you don't want to talk about it now that you see there is no mutation of DNA?  Cripes. 

How about this. There is zero evidence of any DNA mutation being a benefit to that life form. Submissive genes becoming dominant is all you'll find.  But they were always there.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Ah! Fish skeletons. I'm sure then that you will. And yes, it will be for many reasons, one of which will be being quickly covered in mud.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


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Because they weren't. I'm a Christian and a conservative and it saddens me to see my friends cling to creationism so stubbornly. That isn't at all what God intended.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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If humans have existed for 500,000 years why only a dozen finds?


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

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How long have we been looking? How long have we been smart enough to understand what they were?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

PredFan said:


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How does a sea creature get quickly buried in mud?


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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No, I did not claim that. I claimed that viruses, and indeed bacteria too, demonstrate that the more frequently an organism reproduces, the more often mutations show up. The fact that DNA mutates is undeniable.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Then explain the OP, the Cambodian Dino, and the Estonian Dino.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

PredFan said:


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Except they are not mutating from a DNA standpoint.


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

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Freewill posted a link from the late 80s talking about the prints int he OP were dinosaur.
The cambodian dino is assumption. That doesnt look like any dino that we know today. IT could have also been carved after the fact. People make up shit all the time. 
I asked when the painting from the church was made. I tried to find that picture online but i couldnt.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Really? You cannot even imagine that?

1. Large mudslide mows a lake or a pond right over.

2. A river that feeds a sea gets choked off or diverted by an unknown factor, say an earthquake maybe.

3. A nearby volcano boils a local lake or sea, killing all living things and then filling it with mud or ash.

Really, it could be a whole host of reasons.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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That is just factually innacurate.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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The Estonian pic was painted in the late 1500's. You can also tell by the clothes used. I knew nothing about it until I walked down the line of paintings and almost peed my pants.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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A dozen finds? Not sure what that means.

From what I have read in regards to the fossilization (there are more than a few processes) process, it takes very specific conditions for it to happen.  

It has been suggested that all of these T rexes along with millions of other dinosaurs from thousands upon thousands of different species were wiped out a couple thousand years ago. Covered by mud, which according to some is all that needs to be done for fossilization to happen. 

Six T rexes? 

Something is not making sense here, at all.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Read up on it and post away.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Neither does soft tissue in a dinosaur bone.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Happens often enough they are common on Mt Everest even?  Pffft.


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## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2017)

Paluxy River - Wikipedia

Some of the tracks were fake, carved by locals to sell during the Great Depression.[3] These footprints do not represent the way human footprints would look in mud; they also do not accurately reflect the changes in the way giant humans would walk as a result of their size.[6] Other footprints were genuine tracks, but showed features inconsistent with human footprints


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

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do you happen to know the name of the painting. You are kinda blowing my mind lol


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## TNHarley (Aug 10, 2017)

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The iron preserved it


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## Care4all (Aug 10, 2017)

Billy_Kinetta said:


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> > I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved.
> ...


ya never know!


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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It's just one of around 40 paintings showing Bible scenes. 

Holy Spirit church in Estonia. My wife and I like history and we're looking at the midevil paintings and ran across it. 
From google, paintings are along the balcony.


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## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2017)

The footprint in the OP looks fake to me

Not how a footprint in the mud would look


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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It isn't making sense to you because your understanding of what happened is flawed.

It wasn't a couple of thousand years ago, it was in many cases hundreds of millions of years ago and not all of them were covered in mud.

You are correct that the conditions have to be just so, which would explain why only 6 T-Rexes.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> The footprint in the OP looks fake to me
> 
> Not how a footprint in the mud would look



The dinosaur footprint looks like a cartoon.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Read it, studied it, had it hammered into me in college. What you stated is wrong, sorry.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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When have we found soft tissue in a dinosaur bone? That's news to me. There is that foot from a prehistoric bird, but I'm not aware of another.


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## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2017)

PredFan said:


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In the human footprint each toe is independently pressed into the mud. The footprint looks like it came down vertically with the whole foot pressing into the mud at the same time

That is not how humans walk


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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So we can't tell what strain a virus is from DNA? Pfft


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Likely, the fossils, even if it's true, were pre-Cambrian and from the mass extinction. Not so hard to imagine really. The rock pushed up by the plates to form Everest was from an ancient sea bed that was there.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Here's a link with the official spin, for which I say pffftt. 

Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained


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## task0778 (Aug 10, 2017)

1.   The age of the dinosaurs ran from approx 225 - 65 million years ago.   Accepted theory is that a large asteroid impact around 65 million years ago caused the dinos and quite a few other species to go extinct.  But some early mammal species did survive, and evolution took over and basically they evolved into the myriad mammal species that are alive today, including us.   However, hominids did not appear much earlier than about 5-7 million years ago, and those early hominids were more ape-like than human.   It wasn't until around 200,000 years ago that Homo Sapiens appeared;  there were a number of earlier versions of the Homo species, but by then the dinosaurs were long gone.

2.  The Pawluxy river prints are a hoax.

3.  So is the carving of a stegosaurus, or whatever it was.

4.  There are something like 50 T-Rex fossils in existence, mostly parts rather than the whole skeleton.   It ain't like their organic material is going to last that long without being covered up in mud or volcanic ash or something.   Which makes the fossils hard to find.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Yes, we can.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Or the sea creatures were there when the mountain was quickly pushed up, which preventing them from being eroded.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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So your argument fails. Their DNA is not changing.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Interesting, that was news to me. Looks like it was the iron that preserved it. The theory does still have its detractors among the science community. It still changes nothing really.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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How would sea creatures get up there?


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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No, sorry, my argument is intact, your logic fails. One does not logically exclude the other.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

task0778 said:


> 1.   The age of the dinosaurs ran from approx 225 - 65 million years ago.   Accepted theory is that a large asteroid impact around 65 million years ago caused the dinos and quite a few other species to go extinct.  But some early mammal species did survive, and evolution took over and basically they evolved into the myriad mammal species that are alive today, including us.   However, hominids did not appear much earlier than about 5-7 million years ago, and those early hominids were more ape-like than human.   It wasn't until around 200,000 years ago that Homo Sapiens appeared;  there were a number of earlier versions of the Homo species, but by then the dinosaurs were long gone.
> 
> 2.  The Pawluxy river prints are a hoax.
> 
> ...


You validate my point. All the evidence you just blow off without proof.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Link away.


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## task0778 (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> task0778 said:
> 
> 
> > 1.   The age of the dinosaurs ran from approx 225 - 65 million years ago.   Accepted theory is that a large asteroid impact around 65 million years ago caused the dinos and quite a few other species to go extinct.  But some early mammal species did survive, and evolution took over and basically they evolved into the myriad mammal species that are alive today, including us.   However, hominids did not appear much earlier than about 5-7 million years ago, and those early hominids were more ape-like than human.   It wasn't until around 200,000 years ago that Homo Sapiens appeared;  there were a number of earlier versions of the Homo species, but by then the dinosaurs were long gone.
> ...



Nobody in his right mind is going to believe that human beings co-existed with dinosaurs.   NOBODY.   Those that do are operating with something less than a full deck of cards.   Everything I said is the accepted theory of what happened to the dinos and the evolution of human beings.  

As for your evidence, here you go:

Since the 1930s, dinosaur tracks have been known from the bed of the Paluxy River, near Glen Rose, Texas. What makes these tracks so controversial are claims that as well as the footprints of dinosaurs, there are unmistakably human footprints in the same strata. Even creationists admit that some of them are fakes. In some of the ‘man tracks’, it is possible to make out traces of toes to the side of the ‘foot’, which suggests that they are nothing more mysterious than highly eroded three-toed dinosaur tracks. Some also show claw marks at the ‘heel’ of the print, which is another feature typical of a dinosaur footprint but not of a human footprint. In at least one footprint sequence, there is the inexplicable coincidence that dinosaur tracks and ‘human footprints’ alternate.

The Paluxy River ‘man prints’ may resemble human footprints superficially, but they lack the anatomy of real human footprints. Furthermore, dinosaurs and humans are of very different size and weight, but in the Paluxy River, tracks made by some undisputed dinosaurs and supposed humans are sunk to the same depth in the rock, which suggests that both types were made by creatures of the same general weight; there are tracks, made by different dinosaur species sunk to different depths. In the same way, the distances between footfalls of those tracks made to the same depth are spaced the same distance apart, showing that they were made by creatures with similar stride lengths.

The creationist explanation for how the two sets of tracks are found together does not quite match the scenario they propose. The creatures that made the tracks were supposed to have been running from the rising waters of the Great Flood. However, there are several thousand feet of water-deposited sedimentary rock beneath the footprints and several thousand feet on top of them, both of which ought, according to creationist beliefs about geology, have been deposited by the waters of the same Flood the creatures were fleeing. To have produced this sequence, the base rock would have to be deposited by an early ‘high tide’ of the Flood, which then receded long enough for the dinosaurs and humans to run across the valley and leave their tracks, subsequently covering them with a tidal wave that sealed them with a layer of mud, without damaging them. This sequence would have been repeated on numerous occasions, as the dinosaur and ‘human’ tracks appear in a number of superimposed layers. The biggest problem with this, of course, is the question of where the creatures had remained hidden during the early stages of the universal flood if they were rushing to higher land later. But logic never got in the way of religious dogma…

The tracks were investigated by Glen Kuban in the 1980s, whose investigations showed that the tracks are not human footprints. The supposed “manprints” were made by the same three-toed dinosaurs: they appear to be human because only the middle toe is visible. In a number of cases, “manprints” have subsequently eroded to show their true origin. The TalkOrigins website has a very detailed sub-webdealing with the ‘manprints’.

The Paluxy River ‘footprints’ - Bad Archaeology






Close-up of the tracks


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## task0778 (Aug 10, 2017)

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As for the stegosaurus, read this and tell me you really think mankind co-existed with that dinosaur

Stegosaur Carving on a Cambodian Temple? by Glen Kuban


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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I have touched it, have you?

Every inch of the complexes (which covers the size of Manhatten) have carvings. All of which look like the creatures they represent except for the Hindu creatures. And this is not a Hindu creature.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Pffft. 

Go walk in some mud and go tell me a month later the prints are perfect.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Put raw iron outside for a week and tell us what happens


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## task0778 (Aug 10, 2017)

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LOL, touching it makes you an expert?   I can't tell if you are really this gullible or whether you're just stirring shit up.   Maybe it's both.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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I can sure tell if something is as old as everything around it. 

Like all the other evidence shown in this thread, you toss it out without justification simply because it threatens what they tell you to parrot.


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## task0778 (Aug 10, 2017)

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LOL, so I should ignore all those respected and credentialed scientists in favor of a guy who can touch something and tell how old it is.   'K.


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## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2017)

Actual video of the man who made those tracks


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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I'm saying take no ones word for anything. Use an open mind. Look at the evidence and draw your own conclusions. Don't start with dinosaurs were 70 million years ago, that's a bias. 

There is no threat to my faith with a billion year old earth. But my interest in geology and archeology has me outside the box of what they teach in schools.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Actual video of the man who made those tracks


He also caused the ice age to end.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Fundamentalists will tell you you are going to hell for believing the earth is older than 6000 years old.

Just saying...

It gets frustrating.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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BS. I'm a fundamentalist and I've never heard that in my life.


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## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2017)

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Claiming dinosaurs were 70 million years ago is not a bias. It is supported by substantial scientific evidence
There is no evidence of man being around even one million years ago


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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I have been told that.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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So? Lots of people make up lies about what the Bible says. Mormon faith is built upon such lies.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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How old that fossil?
70 million years
How do you know that?
The rocks there are that old. 
How do you know the rocks are that old?
It has a 70 million year old fossil in it.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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There's a link about logical fallacies? I mean other than a dictionary?


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Put raw iron in a bucket of oil and leave it for 1000 years, there will be no rust. Rust needs oxygen.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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We are talking microscopic amounts. The oxygen in a T. rex body is plenty needed for oxidation.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Like I said, you can't support your position because it's wrong.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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No, likely since the creature died, there was very little oxygen in its body.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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3 guesses at what the O in H2O stands for.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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I don't have to prove it because you didn't yet disprove it. Your answer is illogical and wrong. Try again. Otherwise I am right. And by the way, I am.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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You actually think that the the bound oxygen in water causes rust?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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No unbound oxygen in a T. rex?  This keeps getting better.


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## task0778 (Aug 10, 2017)

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LOL, I don't think you got out too far from that box if you're thinking mankind co-existed with dinos.   Here are the facts.   FACTS.  There is something called the K-T Boundary, it is a thin layer of sediment that exists all around the world that is dated by scientists to be about 65 million years old.   Below that layer you find dino fossils, above that layer you don't.  NOT ONE.   The conclusion drawn by that fact is that dinosaurs went extinct about 65 million years ago.   That is not a bias, that is as close to a fact as you're ever going to get.   Dispute it all you want, but I got facts and fossils on my side and the scientific community too;  let me know when you find a dinosaur fossil that dates to a time when humans walked the planet.   A debunked footprint or carving doesn't stack up to any real scientific evidence that shows otherwise.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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You just validated my point. They fed you s 65 million year old date and now your parroting it without question.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Actually, I just edited that because I mixed things up. The whole water molecule binds to iron, causing rust. You threw me off with the erroneous statement that it was the O in H2O that caused it.

Here's the deal. If the dinosaur lived in a vety arid environment, it's corpse would have been dessicated in no time at all. No water, no rust. You also do realize that an iron molecule isn't destroyed when it rusts right?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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And the OP, Cambodia nor Estonia are debunked by anyone.


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## task0778 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Could be.   But he did it 10-12,000 years ago, not 6,000.   Just like he caused dinosaurs to die out some 65 million years ago, which allowed the age of mammals to thrive and that eventually lead to us through the process of evolution.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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The footprints are proven fake and the drawings, if not fake, are drawings of the animals that early humans found. Likely they found fossils all the time. Probably where the stories of dragons and sea monsters came from.


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## task0778 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Sure they are, you just don't want to accept reality.  Which is actually fine by me, BTW.   I gave you links that point out the issues with the footprint and the carvings.   So - do you believe mankind co-existed with dinos?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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T. rex in deserts? Keep spinning. 

To say iron lets tissue exist for 70 million years is laughable.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

task0778 said:


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Your links offered no evidence, only wild speculation. And I only believe what evidence points to.


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## task0778 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Was my question too difficult to understand?   Do you believe mankind co-existed with dinos?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

PredFan said:


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Cavemen found fossils of dinosaurs?

I thought you said no land creature had intact fossils.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

task0778 said:


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Safe to say that he does. Most Fundamentalists do. He has made it rather clear.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

task0778 said:


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I don't know. 

But I do know no one has evidence that invalidates the OP, Cambodia or Estonia.


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## sealybobo (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


> I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved.
> 
> The Paluxy footprints have always fascinated me.
> 
> ...


It is possible that god planted the life seed knowing what diversity would come of it.  But he didn't poof fully grown giraffe separately from dogs, fish, snake, birds, humans, turtles, ardvark, etc.  We all have a common ancestor.  

That only freaks religious people out because it means we are just animals.  But consider somewhere around 100,000 years ago we made a huge leap forward intellectually.  Maybe God made the monkey smarter at some point.  Turned one species of monkey into smart man.


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## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2017)

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You can also carbon date, you can look at the formation of rock strata to determine the era the fossil  was formed in

Regardless, it is not even close
Man was not around when the dinosaurs were. There were some simple mammals but it would be millions of years after the last of the dinosaurs before the earliest humans evolved


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Just seems rather absurd that we would not have more absolute conclusive evidence other than fossilized footprints, one carving in Cambodia and a painting in Estonia.

Wouldn't there be all sorts of stuff from people everywhere?

It seems absurd.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


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Why does every culture have stories about dragons?

Doesn't have to be a fire breathing Hollywood version. 

And you forgot Job.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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First answer; yes. 

Second answer; something preserved it.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Dude please. A single bone is a fossil, and give me one reason why primitive man couldn't find an intact dinosaur skeleton.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

rightwinger said:


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You can't carbon date rocks. And as I've shown earlier, the laying of rocks exhibit traits of rapid formation.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Yes they do and it has already been presented to you. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Because all large fossils are found scattered?  Duh.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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What were reptiles the sizes of busses eating in your desert?


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Again, entirely untrue. Even the ones that are scattered, they are scattered merely feet away.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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In the case of T-Rex, other dinosaurs.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Go draw me what this is.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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And what were they eating in your desert?

Keep digging


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## Darkwind (Aug 10, 2017)

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This poses some interesting thoughts.

I've always been of the belief that when God created the universe that God understood that in order for this place to exist (place being the universe, not just Earth), that there would have to be structure, and rules, and a way for it to perpetuate itself.   Thus we have the hard sciences (which is just a study of the structure of the Universe), and how that structure worked (theories on matter, energy, and a host of other mathematical theories), and a means by which the life in this Universe can adapt to change, because it is evident to anyone with a brain that the universe is dynamic and changing.

The creation theory in the Bible then suggests that each of the days of creation would be divided up based upon how long we can measure it happening.  The big bang and its expansion outward would be part of the first day, the second day would be the formations of stars and the creation of specific elements necessary for life to begin.  The third day, etc..

We measure the term 'day' to mean a 24-hour cycle, but really, would that be how a deity would measure a day?  Or is the entire concept of a day in the bible just a way for our limited understanding of the universe to cope with the magnitude of these scales?

As for the footprint next to the Dinosaur....everyone knows it is a footprint of Jean Luc Picard when he was stranded in the past hunting Borg.....


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Why? What does that have to do with anything? Do you think that all dinosaur bones have to be excavated from rock? Do you think that primitive man could create the carving you point to in that church but not dig something out of the rock?

You can walk in a place called Dinosaur Natuonal Monument and look for fossils. There's a good chance that if you have a sharp eye, you will see one just lying there, perhaps partially buried. It is illegal to take it but you can report its location. The thing is, they are right there. 

Cope and Marsh in the late 1800s found bones all over the place in Montana and many of them required no serious digging.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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I think there is always some truth within stories of folklore. Meaning, Greek Mythology has a cyclops in the Odyssey. Now, looking at the skull of a woolly mammoth...











You can see how stories of a cyclops may be told here or there. If, they came across the skull of one, which was entirely PROBABLE. 

As far as fire breathing flying dragons in every culture, I am thinking that every single person in every culture witnessed shooting stars. In a world where most people believed the world was flat, it is not hard to imagine them thinking that is what they are seeing. 

The story in Job about a Leviathan.....most believe it is referring to a crocodile. Not a "dragon." Certainly not T Rex. I mean lets be grown up about this. Please.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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You think that all deserts look like the Sahara? They don't. But many had to migrate long distances to find food. It is theorized that, like birds, they migrated long distances instinctively.

The fact that they did so is proven.

Trying to get back to the soft tissue that was found in the T-Rex, there could have been many other reasons as well. Ever heard of peat bogs?

Just like the conditions that are required to preserve bones and turn them into fossils, the conditions needed to preserve soft tissue are rarely achieved. That doesn't mean it can't happen.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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You made up that the T Rex was in a desert so dry the tissue survived 70 million years. Stop giving lame excuses that requires you to flip flop.


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## Darkwind (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> One other aspect they always conveniently overlook: All of the intact fossil finds.  Put a carcass out in a field. A year later you will not find anything there. Bones will be scattered all over from the animals devouring it.  An intact fossil requires immediate burial in mud.  You know, something like a big flood would do.


Tar pits.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Please. You are arguing like a liberal. I gave you ONE way it could have happened and I was right. Now the discussion is drifting too far from the point and is getting annoying. So I gave you another example. If I had time to research it I could likely come up with more. The point is that your statement that it can't happen, is easily debunked.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

Darkwind said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > One other aspect they always conveniently overlook: All of the intact fossil finds.  Put a carcass out in a field. A year later you will not find anything there. Bones will be scattered all over from the animals devouring it.  An intact fossil requires immediate burial in mud.  You know, something like a big flood would do.
> ...



And there are many other ways as well.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Technically the largest desert in the world is....Antarctica. Just one of those little interesting facts. 

If we had an honest look at this too. If we went back in time to any period and tried to tell people about the future, you would more than likely be burned at the stake as a heretic. 

Imagine for instance trying to tell devout people that one day we would be able to see people on the other side of the planet in the palm of your hand. Imagine if you told people we would be able to fly around the world. Around the world? The world is not round, right? 

Imagine all of that and we know how people would stone you to death. Granted, not saying "Christians." 

What I am saying is for me there is not a reason to be mutually exclusive about the issue of evolution. Does it sound like I am playing both sides? Maybe. Then again I cannot really speak to things I am not an expert in. 

Oh, I have heard experts talk about these footprints issue. I listen to them and they had compelling things to say. It is just a little too much for me to stomach that humans shared the planet with dinosaurs and we have very little documented evidence that they lived with side by side with us. 

As I said, I need more than ancient footprints and ONE carving in Cambodia and stories of folklore that can be explained. 

To me the notion of evolution is actual proof of intelligent design. We all have this paradigm of how that intelligence reveals itself. I believe life (just to reiterate) is far more than things we can all just measure.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Says it eats grass. I know of no croc that eats grass. 

But my Estonia pic does show them eating grass.


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## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2017)

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Look

If we were talking about a million years here or there, I'd indulge your silly fantasies. But when we are talking about over 50 million years between dinosaurs and humans......I'm not playing your games


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## Darkwind (Aug 10, 2017)

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During the biblical era, the continents were pretty close to what they are now.  Pangea is 100's of millions of years in the past.

http://www.iris.edu/hq/files/programs/education_and_outreach/aotm/14/1.GPS_Background.pdf


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

rightwinger said:


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You're parroting 50 million years. 

It's why you're a leftist. You parrot without thought. 

Use your brain.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Well said and I agree. I believe that evolution is a creation of God himself. If you learn about it, study it, you can see God's hand in it. That's what I believe.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Oh I know. Just that there are some fundamentalists who truly believe the earth is (whole universe) 6000 years old.

I am sure there are people who still believe "we" are the center of the universe and everything revolves around the earth.

There is an actual earth flat society.
The Flat Earth Society -- Home


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

The thing that bugs me about Creationists is how they cannot back up their beliefs with anything at all, yet they demand comprehensive proof of evolution.

Oh and it hurts a little to argue with them because I agree with 90% of everything else the believe.


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## Darkwind (Aug 10, 2017)

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Well, it goes without saying that 'We' are NOT the center of the universe.  Everyone knows its Me.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

PredFan said:


> The thing that bugs me about Creationists is how they cannot back up their beliefs with anything at all, yet they demand comprehensive proof of evolution.


You have yet to back up anything. 3 pieces of evidence laid out and all you did was fabricate stories.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> PredFan said:
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> > The thing that bugs me about Creationists is how they cannot back up their beliefs with anything at all, yet they demand comprehensive proof of evolution.
> ...



I cannot back up what is false. Your "evidence" isn't. That has already been shown to you. Just because you refuse to accept it doesn't mean it isn't a fact.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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> PredFan said:
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> > The thing that bugs me about Creationists is how they cannot back up their beliefs with anything at all, yet they demand comprehensive proof of evolution.
> ...


I have to admit, I have not really heard anything that really explains the footprints yet.

I do believe they were human or humanoid footprints. I don't believe they were claws etc.

That is why I made the op.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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And all I have ever said is you follow evidence. What we have here are deniers who refuse to look at evidence because it challenges what they were programmed to believe.


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## Theowl32 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Right now I am going to hold off on stating that humans lived with dinosaurs, cause as I said I need more. 

As I also said I do believe in evolution, at least at the macro level. I also happen to believe that is creation or intelligent design if you will.

I think I may start another thread to discuss the Anthropic Coincidence principle. How it shows that there is an actual mathematical impossibility that everything happened by chance. Most physicists know it too.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Ok, I'll play your game. Let's say that dinosaurs and humans walked the earth together. Why doesn't the Bible mention them? There should be more stories than Job's leviathan. Shouldn't there be stories about villages being attacked by packs of velociraptors? Shouldn't there be stories of Brachiosaurs stomping around? I mean they would be pretty difficult to miss. And if the flood killed them all, what aren't there more intact skeletons buried in the mud? What are bones from men who lived in those times not fossilized too?

Why would there only be one carving of a stegosaurus? Where are the triceratops? The apatosaurus? The T-Rex, velociraptor, dinonychus, 
brachiosaurus, dinomymus, dimetrodon, terrannodon, and on and on?

The cave drawing is accurate, I believe, and so is the stegosaurus, it's difficult to deny that but why then aren't all of the other Dino's drawn accurately? Why dragon drawings that don't look like any dinosaur except maybe Pterodon? 

The reason those two were drawn accurately is because they found the fossils intact.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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Bible doesn't mention owls or zebras either. What would a dinosaur have to do with salvation of mankind?  You do know that's the purpose of Scripture don't you?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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And as far as drawing, my skill level is a 2. So what if a bad artist did it?  But you won't find any large fossils that have such detail without training.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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But you quote the Bible yourself in defense of dinosaurs being contemporary with man. You cannot have it both ways.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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It isn't a bad drawing. It's a pretty good rendition of one of the apatosaurus or its relative. What about the carving of the stegosaurus? Looks pretty much like a stegosaurus wouldn't you agree? Where is the triceratops? The velociraptor?

And why aren't human bones from times before the flood not also fossilized?

Your OP falls apart on so many levels.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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You keep shooting yourself. 

You earlier stated there are not that many fossils of thousands of species over a hundred million years. 

Well, you're not going to find more for just humans. But you might find some footprints.....


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 10, 2017)

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God used a two large species to as examples to put Job back in his place. And they describe nothing like what's around today.


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## westwall (Aug 10, 2017)

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> Freewill said:
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No, you're not going to hell.  Put another way I find fundies belief that a day in the life of man to be equivalent to a day in the life of their God to be quite presumptuous.  No one knows how long a day would be in the time frame of a God.


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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You are wrong there too. There have been bones recovered of people who were the contemporarys of Abraham. There were also bones of people who lived before them but we will leave them out for now.

So why are t those bones fossilized?


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## PredFan (Aug 10, 2017)

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Or anything that has been fossilized.


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## rightwinger (Aug 10, 2017)

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I hate when you guys make up your own science

It doesn't work like that. There is no credible scientist who believes humans coexisted with dinosaurs
It is a fantasy on your part


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## SixFoot (Aug 11, 2017)

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The story of a flood that wiped out most of mankind is a story echoed not only in the Bible, but in every single one of the most ancient cultures on Earth. From the Sumerians, to the Hopi Indians, all the way back to Gobekli Tepe - the oldest dated human monolithic structure at ~10,500 BCE. They all talk about a disaster that came from, "above," or, "the heavens," or, "God." You name it, it's out there, on *every *continent.

Hard science points toward a comet fragmenting upon impact with our atmosphere over North America about 13,000 years ago, causing an environmental event that led to the end of the Ice Age (with flooding).

There are pyramids in Egypt that are small compared to the Great Pyramid(s) at Giza, and are made with mud bricks and mortar. They are heavily eroded and mostly destroyed by 4,000 years of time.

I ask this:

What if the earliest Egyptians settled in an area with giant monolithic ruins leftover from a "time of the gods" (as they coined the term), and eventually got the idea that there was more to the structures than what they could see, and decided to un-bury the rest of the structures (like we did with the Sphinx just a century ago)?

I wonder what they would have found? What if the first Pharaohs were the very first "tomb robbers" of the pyramids?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 11, 2017)

SixFoot said:


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Of course it is repeated.  They are all descendants of Noah and his family who then scattered from Mesopotamia after the Tower of Babel.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 11, 2017)

rightwinger said:


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Hard evidence is science.

Parroting what people with an agenda say is not.

Think for yourself.


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 11, 2017)

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Finding A bone is not going to give you




or


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## rightwinger (Aug 11, 2017)

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Yea...yea...I know

Dinosaurs frolicked with Jesus
Noah saved all the animals
Evolution is a myth

What passes for science among fundamentalists


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 11, 2017)

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Really?  What evidence do you have?


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## Vastator (Aug 11, 2017)

SixFoot said:


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Where do you get such information in regard to the civilization who built Gobekli Tepi? I find Gobekli Tepi to be very interesting. However very little is known about it, or the people who built it. So wherever you got such information... Well let's just say, "I'd like to read it.". If you could link said info to a credible source I'd be ecstatic to read it.


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## rightwinger (Aug 11, 2017)

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Need any more proof than this?


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## Weatherman2020 (Aug 11, 2017)

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Everyone knows photography was black and white then.


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## SixFoot (Aug 11, 2017)

Vastator said:


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I have no knowledge of the civilization/culture itself, other than to say it existed, and so-called cavemen built it using stones in excess of 14 tons, quarried from over a day's travel away, supposedly without the invention of the wheel. The structure itself is a testament to their mathematical/geometric knowledge.

As far as the Vulture Stone and the tale of the flood:

Ancient stone pillars offer clues of comet strike that changed human history

_"(Phys.org)—A team of researchers with the University of Edinburgh has found what they describe as evidence of a comet striking the Earth at approximately the same time as the onset of the Younger Dryas in carvings on an ancient stone pillar in southern Turkey. The group has published their findings in the journal of Mediterranean Archaeology and Archaeometry."_

Ancient stone carvings confirm how comet struck Earth in 10,950BC, sparking the rise of civilisations

Ancient Stone Tablet Found: Reveals Comet Impact Sparking The Rise Of Civilization


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## SixFoot (Aug 11, 2017)

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Or Noah was the only survivor in his region (not the whole Earth), and Moses wrote about the flood in Genesis 8,000+ years after it happened.


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## PredFan (Aug 11, 2017)

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You are off the subject AND you are making my case for me.

I asked you why dinosaur bones are fossilized and the bones of the humans you claim walked along side of them, are not.


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## Old Rocks (Aug 12, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


> I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved.
> 
> The Paluxy footprints have always fascinated me.
> 
> ...


Never found easily proven fraud interesting.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


> I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved.
> 
> The Paluxy footprints have always fascinated me.
> 
> ...





Theowl32 said:


> I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved.
> 
> The Paluxy footprints have always fascinated me.
> 
> ...




The explanation is simple....those are not human footprints. Thw images you presented are not casts from Paluxy; someone fooled you, there.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Or how in 1000AD someone knew what they looked like.
> 
> View attachment 142924


That is a hoax.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 5, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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> > Or how in 1000AD someone knew what they looked like.
> ...


Keep telling yourself that.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

I don't have to "tell myself" that.  The man who faked it told us that. His name is, " Basilio Uschuya".  You can look him up.

Sorry buddy, you got fooled.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 5, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> I don't have to "tell myself" that.  The man who faked it told us that. His name is, " Basilio Uschuya".  You can look him up.
> 
> Sorry buddy, you got fooled.


Dufus thinks it is in Peru.

Close!  Only on the other side of the world from Peru!


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
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> 
> > I don't have to "tell myself" that.  The man who faked it told us that. His name is, " Basilio Uschuya".  You can look him up.
> ...


Was I mistaken?  Okay, where was it found?  Don't worry, you guys rest.  I will do all the research on who dated the rock and the carving and how.  You just tell me where it was found.  Thanks.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 5, 2017)

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Pretty common for people to attack things that they don't understand.
Jungles of Cambodia. Oxidized the same as all of the other hundreds of thousands of carvings in the vast number of temples covering an area the size of Manhattan.
I know, I saw it.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

Cambodia?  Could you please be more specific?  That's an entire country.  A nearby town name would help.  Or any sort of identifier, like the name of the caves.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 5, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Cambodia?  Could you please be more specific?  That's an entire country.  A nearby town name would help.  Or any sort of identifier, like the name of the caves.


<forehead slap>

Happy hunting. I know you'll find at least one person who claims it's a fake and cling to it. It threatens your brainwashing.

dinosaur cambodia - Bing


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
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FOrget it.  i found it myself.


now, before we proceed, let's compare the following explanations with the idea of examining which makes the most sense, is simpler, and is more likely and in line with every piece of mutually supportive evidence which exists in science:

1) Dinosaurs were alive a few hundred years ago.

2) A man hundreds of years ago was granted some sort of divine vision, enabling him to carve a likeness that resembles an animal he could not otherwise have possibly known anything about

3) the carving is not of a dinosaur at all, and seeing a dinosaur in it is a case of "seeing what we want to see".  This is supported by the fact that the head looks nothing like a dinosaur head, nor are the shapes claimed to be the plates on the back shaped like those on a Stegosaurus.... oh, and it's supported by the idea that Stegosaurus died out 60+ million years ago, according to all of the evidence (and it is a LOT of evidence).

4) It's a hoax.

So, which of these explanations do you find to be simpler and more likely?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Cambodia?  Could you please be more specific?  That's an entire country.  A nearby town name would help.  Or any sort of identifier, like the name of the caves.
> ...



"I know you'll find at least one person who claims it's a fake"


I think a lot more people think it's not a fake of a dinosaur, but rather a case of people seeing what they want to see.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 5, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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The Temples are covered with hundreds of thousands of images. The artists were very very good.
What do you see?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

The artists may have been decent, but their realism lacked.  Thanks for bringing that up, as it is another reason to think that is not a carving of a dinosaur and helps make my case. For instance, here is a carving of en elephant from that temple.  Note the poorly shaped tusks and ears, and the poor representation of the bodily shape and proportions:

http://www.angkorphotographytours.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/carving-elephant-beng-mealea.jpg

I see a rhinocerous, or some other large mammal.  I think "large mammal", in part because of the leg structure (note knee, and heel).


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 5, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> The artists may have been decent, but their realism lacked.  Thanks for bringing that up, as it is another reason to think that is not a carving of a dinosaur and helps make my case. For instance, here is a carving of en elephant from that temple.  Note the poorly shaped tusks and ears, and the poor representation of the bodily shape and proportions:
> 
> http://www.angkorphotographytours.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/carving-elephant-beng-mealea.jpg
> 
> I see a rhinocerous, or some other large mammal.  I think "large mammal", in part because of the leg structure (note knee, and heel).


Yet everyone knows its an elephant.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 5, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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paleontology, for those who loves dinosaurs


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > The artists may have been decent, but their realism lacked.  Thanks for bringing that up, as it is another reason to think that is not a carving of a dinosaur and helps make my case. For instance, here is a carving of en elephant from that temple.  Note the poorly shaped tusks and ears, and the poor representation of the bodily shape and proportions:
> ...



Then, by the same token, you should know that is NOT a stegosaurus. Everyone know it is an elephant because it has a trunk, big ears, and tusks that are shaped like a trunk, big ears, and tusks,  and it has no body parts not found on an elephant. However, the "not a stegosaurus" has body parts that are not shaped like those of a stegosaurus, and parts that never appeared on a stegosaurus (or any known dinosaur related to them). Careful with your logic...you may end up stepping in it.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 5, 2017)

Before I sign out of this absurd debate, I will leave you with a few thoughts:

1) First, you have this all backwards. The onus is on exactly nobody to prove or even argue that the carving you presented is not a carving made 500+ years ago of a dinosaur by a human. The onus is on someone claiming it *is* to both prove it is this, and to explain exactly how it came to be there.

2) Second, we have mountains upon mountains of mutually supportive evidence that tell us when and where dinosaurs lived, and when and where they died (in case you forgot, that's how you learned what a dinosaur is in the first place!). You will not only have to get past this daunting wall of evidence which contradicts you, you will also have to undermine all of it.

3) No, a carving which could be interpreted in a myriad of ways is not proof that dinosaurs lived with humans, or that ancient humans had divine visions. It's not even evidence, much less proof. 

4) People (and scientists specifically) will always (and rightfully so) decide on the simplest explanation which best matches all the evidence. So, even if you were able to somehow present a shred of evidence that this is an  ancient carving of a dinosar, your idea would STILL be rejected as absurd, and rightfully so.

Have a nice night, thanks for the discussion.


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## Old Rocks (Sep 6, 2017)

SixFoot said:


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*The Younger Dryas*







This near-glacial period is called the Younger Dryas, named after a flower (_Dryas octopetala_) that grows in cold conditions and that became common in Europe during this time.
The Younger Dryas is one of the most well known examples of abrupt change. *About 14,500 years ago,* Earth's climate began to shift from a cold glacial world to a warmer interglacial state. Partway through this transition, temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere suddenly returned to near-glacial conditions. This near-glacial period is called the Younger Dryas, named after a flower (_Dryas octopetala_) that grows in cold conditions and that became common in Europe during this time. *The end of the Younger Dryas, about 11,500 years ago, *was particularly abrupt. In Greenland, temperatures rose 10°C (18°F) in a decade (Alley 2000(link is external)). Other proxy records, including varved lake sediments in Europe, also display these abrupt shifts (Brauer et al. 2008(link is external)).

The Younger Dryas | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) formerly known as National Climatic Data Center (NCDC)

*10,950 BC would be 13,000BP. That would have been about 1500 years after the beginning of the Younger Dryas.*


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


> I do believe in evolution. Personally, not sure how both cannot be true. Never have understood. Could evolution and intelligent design be the same thing? Who knows? There has been more than enough evidence to show that species have evolved.
> 
> The Paluxy footprints have always fascinated me.
> 
> ...



No links to original sources. 

The top photo is from a Creation museum.

Where are the links?


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## PredFan (Sep 6, 2017)

Here's the question that I've never gotten an answer to:

If dinosaurs and man lived in the same time, why are dinosaur bones fossilized and human bones not?


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## Vastator (Sep 6, 2017)

PredFan said:


> Here's the question that I've never gotten an answer to:
> 
> If dinosaurs and man lived in the same time, why are dinosaur bones fossilized and human bones not?


There is no answer, because man did not exist at the same time as dinosaurs...


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## bodecea (Sep 6, 2017)

Theowl32 said:


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They are still rising due to the Indian plate ramming into the Asian plate.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Vastator said:


> PredFan said:
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> > Here's the question that I've never gotten an answer to:
> ...


Despite the evidence.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

PredFan said:


> Here's the question that I've never gotten an answer to:
> 
> If dinosaurs and man lived in the same time, why are dinosaur bones fossilized and human bones not?


They do exist. 

Human Fossils | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Old Rocks said:


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Abriupt climate change without the influence of man, imagine that.


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## PredFan (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Well look at that! I learned something today. A "fossil" is not always made of stone as I had thought. I have to change the question now.

If man and dinosaurs lived in the same time period, why are dinosaur bones made of rock, but not human bones?

Learn something new every once in a while.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

PredFan said:


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They have found soft tissue in Dino fossils. Soft tissue doesn't last 6 million years.


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## bodecea (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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So....you've not heard of uranium-lead dating.....


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## task0778 (Sep 6, 2017)

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Gonna hafta see a link to that claim, I don't believe it.   Show me your link that says they found soft dino tissue that is only 6 million years old.   Which BTW,is still before the 1st human being walked the Earth.   Most anthropologists have mankind appearing no earlier than 200,000 years ago, although recent finds suggest maybe even 300,000 years ago.   That's a long way from 6 million years.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

task0778 said:


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The official atheist version of the origin of man is always changing because it's a lie. 

Scientists Find Soft Tissue in 75-Million-Year-Old Dinosaur Bones


They even make you an example if you dare question their lies by presenting evidence. 

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014...-discovery-of-soft-tissue-on-dinosaur-fossil/


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## Vastator (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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There is no evidence. If there were, this would be settled science.


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## Vastator (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Science is ever improving because we don't recoil from new, and game changing information. Science is not too proud to improve the accuracy of its findings. Unlike the fatally flawed deists.


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## Vastator (Sep 6, 2017)

task0778 said:


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Agree. Link required for us to scrutinize.


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## task0778 (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Appreciate that, thanks.   But I see where you went wrong with your assertion that soft tissue cannot last more than 6 million years.   From your link:

_Researchers at Imperial College in London had low expectations when they began analyzing eight dinosaur fossils unearthed at the Dinosaur Park Formation in Alberta, Canada, some 100 years ago. Most of the bones, which dated to the Cretaceous period, were in fragments; the pieces that remained were of below-average quality. To the scientists’ astonishment, however, *analysis with an electron microscope revealed what appeared to be red blood cells and collagen fibers that had remained intact over some 75 million years of fossilization.*_

I have yet to see a claim by a reputable scientist that says dinosaurs existed 6 million years ago.   Nuh-uh.   There are disputes over why they went extinct but no dispute that I know of for when, which is about 65 million years ago.   A LONG TIME before homo sapiens showed up.   And that ain't just somebody's SWAG, that's based on pure scientific data.


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## PredFan (Sep 6, 2017)

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Apparently, it can. You don't get to make the rules.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

bodecea said:


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I can pick up a rock they say is a hundred million years old. 

Doesn't mean the ground I stand on is that old. 

Dating is difficult and can easily fooled. Such as a lava dome at Mt St Helens that was formed in 1986 being dated as .35 million years old. 

https://www.researchgate.net/public...w_Dacite_Lava_Dome_at_Mount_St_Helens_Volcano


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

PredFan said:


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And you don't get to change reality simply to fit your brainwashing.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

task0778 said:


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Cells from 75 million years ago validates my point.


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## task0778 (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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So you admit those cells are 75 million years old.   Which actually validates MY point.


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## PredFan (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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I'm not the one changing reality, you are. The reality is that soft tissue was found in a dinosaur bone. YOU claim it can't happen, but you don't get to make the rules.


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## PredFan (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Just because you say it does, doesn't make it true. You are still operating on your completely made up rule that it can't happen. Yet, it did.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

task0778 said:


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Cells don't exist after a few centuries, so stop with the childish games. 

It's your right to be a good sheep and not think for yourself.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

PredFan said:


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Good parrot.


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## PredFan (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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I'll take that as an "I give up" from you.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

PredFan said:


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I only talk to those who think for themselves and aren't simply puppets who parrot everything their masters tell them too. Call me if you ever obtain an open mind and think on your own.


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## Vastator (Sep 6, 2017)

... And he taps out!


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## task0778 (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Your own link suggests that they do, did you forget this part?

" _ *analysis with an electron microscope revealed what appeared to be red blood cells and collagen fibers that had remained intact over some 75 million years of fossilization."
*_
So, who's the sheep?


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## task0778 (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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You sure you're not the puppet here?   I ain't seeing much in the way of an open mind here from you, completely disregarding a preponderance of scientific evidence as well as the consensus of just about everybody who doesn't have a bias.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

task0778 said:


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Self evident organic cells will not last 75 million years in nature. 

The only reason you say it can is because your masters brainwashed you with the preconceived notion the universe is hundreds of billions of years old and Bach is a natural byproduct of a huge explosion.


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

PredFan said:


> Here's the question that I've never gotten an answer to:
> 
> If dinosaurs and man lived in the same time, why are dinosaur bones fossilized and human bones not?



Who believes that they lived at the same time?


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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there is no evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time.


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## PredFan (Sep 6, 2017)

Syriusly said:


> PredFan said:
> 
> 
> > Here's the question that I've never gotten an answer to:
> ...



Lots of creationists do, including Weatherman here in this thread.


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## Syriusly (Sep 6, 2017)

PredFan said:


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Yeah I am still looking for an actual verifiable photo of what the OP showed in the first post.


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## task0778 (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Actually the notion is that the universe is about 14 billion years old and what is Bach?   

Self evident?    To who, somebody that doesn't believe in evolution maybe.  There is scientific evidence that the amount of iron in an organisms cells can extend how long soft tissue can stay soft.   My masters brainwashed me?   Looks to me like you're the one who has been brainwashed.  

_Young-earth creationists also see Schweitzer’s work as revolutionary, but in an entirely different way. They first seized upon Schweitzer’s work after she wrote an article for the popular science magazine Earth in 1997 about possible red blood cells in her dinosaur specimens. Creation magazine claimed that Schweitzer’s research was “powerful testimony against the whole idea of dinosaurs living millions of years ago. It speaks volumes for the Bible’s account of a recent creation.”

This drives Schweitzer crazy. *Geologists have established that the Hell Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so are the bones buried in it. *She’s horrified that some Christians accuse her of hiding the true meaning of her data. “They treat you really bad,” she says. “They twist your words and they manipulate your data.” For her, science and religion represent two different ways of looking at the world; invoking the hand of God to explain natural phenomena breaks the rules of science. After all, she says, what God asks is faith, not evidence. “If you have all this evidence and proof positive that God exists, you don’t need faith. I think he kind of designed it so that we’d never be able to prove his existence. And I think that’s really cool.”

By definition, there is a lot that scientists don’t know, because the whole point of science is to explore the unknown. By being clear that scientists haven’t explained everything, Schweitzer leaves room for other explanations. “I think that we’re always wise to leave certain doors open,” she says._


Read more: Dinosaur Shocker      |     Science | Smithsonian


Look, if the bones in which the soft tissue was found are 68 million years old then it's beyond stupid to suggest that the dinosaur wasn't 68 million years old too.   There are apparently ways for soft tissue to last for a very long time, as in tens of millions of years if the organism's blood chemistry is right.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Again, the 1986 Mt St Helens lava dome is not the .35 million year old formation argon dating says it is. 

Think on your own using known evidence and stop parroting with no evidence to support your claims.


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## Yarddog (Sep 6, 2017)

TNHarley said:


> TNHarley said:
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Oh No.... it's survived a long long time.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Yarddog said:


> TNHarley said:
> 
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That's demonic possession there.


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## Vastator (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Again, the 1986 Mt St Helens lava dome is not the .35 million year old formation argon dating says it is.
> 
> Think on your own using known evidence and stop parroting with no evidence to support your claims.


Hate to be the one to break it to ya bub... And you might want to sit down for this, but... The Bible isn't evidence.


Someone had to tell him...


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Vastator said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> > Again, the 1986 Mt St Helens lava dome is not the .35 million year old formation argon dating says it is.
> ...


Yet another lame strawman. 

You just validate over and over your ignorance.


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## Vastator (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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If there was content in that post... No one got it but you. I repeat... The Bible is not evidence. Are we clear on this?


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Vastator said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
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Dufus, get it thru your Neanderthal head - no one claimed it was. 

Your stupid strawmen simply validate you have no evidence.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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No evidence? Where do you get this nonsense? Try ALL the evidence. Unless I misunderstood you....


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## Vastator (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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The tome of scientifica has overwhelming amount of peer reviewed highly scrutinized, validated evidence. There are numerous websites dedicated to this single topic alone. Even within this thread you've been shown evidence, and been given multiple links to additional evidence for your verification. Your own willful ignorance is of your own making. People who hold fast to the ridiculous claims you do serve only to hasten the demise of christianity, as the educated world around you moves forward with proveable facts that withstand scrutiny from all comers and angles. Just one of the numerous reasons your religion is in precipitous decline.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Vastator said:


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Answer the OP. Answer my Estonia painting. Answer the Cambodian carving. Answer why the 1986 lava dome dates to .35 million years ago. Answer why soft tissue is found in dinosaur fossils.  

And simply saying they are all hoaxes is not science, it's bullshit wishful thinking.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Weatherman2020 said:


> PredFan said:
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"They have found soft tissue in Dino fossils. Soft tissue doesn't last 6 million years."


Actually, it's 60+ million years, and yes it can. You keep making authoritative declarations like this that are incorrect.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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"The official atheist version of the origin of man is always changing because it's a lie. ""

Another authoritative declaration, and wrong again. It's not changing all that much.  I assume you mean evolution, which is also accepted by many religious people.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Actually they claim it's 75 million years. 
So if you're going to avoid the evidence of my posts and correct me, at least get your facts straight.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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"Answer my Estonia painting. Answer the Cambodian carving. "


See, you have it backwards again.  You seem confused as to what constitutes 'evidence".  Here's something that may help: if it can be explained in many different ways, especially in many simpler ways, it is not evidence.  No, nobody has to "prove" those aren't what you say they are.   It is YOU who has to prove that they ARE what you say they are. Then, you have to explain how they got there.  then, you have to explain why the mountains of mutually supportive evidence we have is all wrong.  Then, you have to come up with  better explanation that supports ALL the evidence, not just two things you found on Google... ALL the evidence. Good luck with that, friend.


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## Vastator (Sep 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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The only change, is the growing clarity of our knowledge of what happened. More knowledge, more detail. And that kind of change is good. Its what science is all about.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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I said, "60+ million".  Is 75 more than 60?  I think so, not quite sure.

 And ACTUALLY, they have found soft tissue from 195 million years ago.  Also, they have found a few different ways it can be preserved.  yes, while you were googling for creationist talking points, scientists were busy in the lab, explaining things.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Bull. Just last month the origins of man jumped 33% in years and went from a local area to cover two continents.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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What else you going to parrot without understanding from your masters?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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"Just last month the origins of man jumped 33% in years and went from a local area to cover two continents."

First of all, that is false.  While you may  take anything you see and immediately assume it means 100% ONE thing, and never bother again to research or second guess yourself, that is not how scientists operate.  Second, that would not turn the theory of evolution on its head. Those are minor changes to a comprehensive theory. And, the "33%" number is a con man's tactic, considering the relatively short amount of time humans have been on the planet.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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haha... so, you think this fallacious set of nonsense from you carries some nobility, in that you are "bucking the system".  No, you are merely a living fossil, following the masters from 300 years ago.... the ones we already proved to be 100% wrong.  Pick your masters better, friend.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Not my problem you swallow everything your masters feed you without question. Good sheep.


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## Weatherman2020 (Sep 6, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Educate yourself, sheep. 

Human Footprints From 5.7 Million Years Ago May Rewrite Evolution History


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Uh oh.....tantrum time....

I'll be back when you simmer down. But I will leave you with a thought:

Those who follow the evidence are doing precisely the opposite of "following a master", whether that master is a priest, a dogma, a superstition, or a pre-conception. That would be me.

You, however, are beholden to a preconception. And now, you are engaged in a great project of "backward-think", in which you are furiously searching for "evidence" to support a staunch belief you long ago adopted. You are the 'sheep', following the 'master' that is your superstition. Your inability to shake this incorrect preconception leaves you not in full control of your own faculties, as you are forced to lie, cheat, commit fallacy after fallacy, and ignore the mountains of evidence which stand against you. That is you, being controlled.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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You're confusing yourself with your own headline...having to stretch back the appearance of upright hominims by a couple of million years does not turn evolution or the evolutionary tree on its head. I think your error probably arises by a misunderstanding of both the timescales involved and by the fact that, while specialists make a big deal about even the slightest change to their working hypotheses, in the big scheme, it's a very small change to the accepted theories.


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## Vastator (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Lol... He didn't read the article... Lol...


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## task0778 (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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From your link:

_"Scientists say_ they *may* _have found human footprints in Greece"_

"*potentially* _changing our ideas of how the species evolved and dispersed."_

"*Analysis suggests* _the animal that made the tracks was an ancient member of the human family, but Crete is not within geographical area where our ancestors were known to roam 5.7 million years ago. "

"“The interpretation of these footprints is_ *potentially controversial*,”_ the scientists wrote."_

_" The authors said they “_*must also entertain the possibility”*_ that the tracks were not the product of a human ancestor, but rather were made by another yet-to-be-discovered primate that evolved “human-like foot anatomy.”

It would not be the first time that species in different evolutionary lines separately evolved similar characteristics, a phenomenon known as convergent evolution.

“The first of these interpretations is clearly more straightforward,” the authors noted.

However, even if the tracks being made by a human ancestor is a simpler explanation based on our current knowledge of ancient primates, they said nature does not always operate in such a simple fashion.

“What makes this controversial is the age and location of the prints,” researcher Per Ahlberg said in the Uppsala University report. “This discovery _*challenges*_ the established narrative of early human evolution head-on and is likely to generate a lot of debate. Whether the human origins research community will accept fossil footprints as conclusive evidence of the presence of hominins in the Miocene of Crete remains to be seen.” "
_

You are stating as fact some conclusions that are somewhat controversial.   I didn't see anybody stating that the origins of man has jumped 33%, nor that man originated on two continents.   Nothing wrong with challenging the established narrative, but a honest scientist does not alter the accepted narrative either without more conclusive evidence than what we've seen so far.


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## mamooth (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


> Answer the OP.



Some creationist fraud, and some fraud by the locals to bring in tourist dollars.

By your standards, I can prove Superman exists by posting a picture of him. Your standards are stupid, which is why science rejects them, and why intelligent people reject them.

You can't just toss up random photos and declare they're proof. You need scientific backing for them. You need to prove your human footprints came from Paluxy, then you need to prove they weren't carved by humans. Until you do that, all you have is meaningless pictures.



> Answer my Estonia painting.



The Bible talks about a "behemoth", so a painter made up a fantasy animal. It looks not much like a dinosaur. Looks more like big riding lizards.



> Answer the Cambodian carving.



It's a rhino with decorations carved around it. There's the same kind of decoration carved underneath it. Do you think dinosaurs had udders? No, it's just the weird little decoration nubs that are all over the carvings.



> Answer why the 1986 lava dome dates to .35 million years ago.



Creationist fraud. They sent their samples to a lab that specifically stated it was unable to date samples less than 2 million years old.

Young-Earth Creationist 'Dating' of a Mt. St. Helens Dacite: The Failure of Austin and Swenson to   Recognize Obviously Ancient Minerals



> Answer why soft tissue is found in dinosaur fossils.



Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained


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## Old Rocks (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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*Actually, more than 68 million years. And you base your opinion on soft tissue on what?*

*Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained*

The controversial discovery of 68-million-year-old soft tissue from the bones of a _Tyrannosaurus rex_ finally has a physical explanation. According to new research, iron in the dinosaur's body preserved the tissue before it could decay.

Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained

*Perhaps you should actually look at what the scientists have to say before flapping your ignorant yap.*


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## Old Rocks (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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Are you so ignorant that you think that the scientists use only one proxy in dating? Hardly anyone accepts a date that uses only one method. Each method has possible flaws.


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## Old Rocks (Sep 6, 2017)

Weatherman2020 said:


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It most certainly did not, you stupid ass. Nor did the scientists claim that. What they claimed was they found tracks similiar in morphology to those left by the human foot.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Sep 6, 2017)

Vastator said:


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Of course I did...


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## Vastator (Sep 7, 2017)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Not you... The weenie who posted it.


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