# 20 Million ASIANS



## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

What if the US rid itself of the illegal alien mexicans: anchor babies, "dream act" parasites, drug pushers - even the 25% of the california prison population who are alien criminals, and replaced them with 20 million asians?

Asians have high IQs.  They have an excellent work ethic, are responsible, family oriented, etc.  We could get a lot of them the PRC.  The chinese "one child" and forced abortion programs have produced a great surplus of young chinese men (chinese parents prefer boys if they only have one child) who will never get married there.

We could hook them up with the large number of single black women.  We could require an IQ of 165 and above, and there would be plenty who would meet that requirement.  They would greatly enhance our economy, because what we need now isn't fruit pickers, but people who can create innovative new products that will revive our economy.


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## Angelhair (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> What if the US rid itself of the illegal alien mexicans: anchor babies, "dream act" parasites, drug pushers - even the 25% of the california prison population who are alien criminals, and replaced them with 20 million asians?
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> Asians have high IQs.  They have an excellent work ethic, are responsible, family oriented, etc.  We could get a lot of them the PRC.  The chinese "one child" and forced abortion programs have produced a great surplus of young chinese men (chinese parents prefer boys if they only have one child) who will never get married there.
> 
> We could hook them up with the large number of single black women.  We could require an IQ of 165 and above, and there would be plenty who would meet that requirement.  They would greatly enhance our economy, because what we need now isn't fruit pickers, but people who can create innovative new products that will revive our economy.



_Great idea......HITLER._


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## Sallow (Jul 31, 2011)

Oh man.

Your attachment to reality is becoming more and more tenuous..


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## PoliticalChic (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> What if the US rid itself of the illegal alien mexicans: anchor babies, "dream act" parasites, drug pushers - even the 25% of the california prison population who are alien criminals, and replaced them with 20 million asians?
> 
> Asians have high IQs.  They have an excellent work ethic, are responsible, family oriented, etc.  We could get a lot of them the PRC.  The chinese "one child" and forced abortion programs have produced a great surplus of young chinese men (chinese parents prefer boys if they only have one child) who will never get married there.
> 
> We could hook them up with the large number of single black women.  We could require an IQ of 165 and above, and there would be plenty who would meet that requirement.  They would greatly enhance our economy, because what we need now isn't fruit pickers, but people who can create innovative new products that will revive our economy.



I appreciate your kind words re: my peeps....

...but are you aware of the following:

"The FBI and CIA have detected hundreds of such attempts to steal American military technology in the last eight years. That information led to over 500 formal investigations, and hundreds of arrests and prosecutions. Even with that, it appears that far more military technology is illegally making its way to China.

Thousands of Chinese citizens, and Chinese-Americans caught up in what the Chinese call the thousand grains of sand espionage system."
Chinese espionage of American technology | TR Defence


Are you sure you want to go forward with the program?


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

Uhhhh, any response from those with an IQ over 80?


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## PoliticalChic (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> Uhhhh, any response from those with an IQ over 80?



I just gave it!!!


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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You must have posted while I composing my post.


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

PoliticalChic said:


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I didn't think of that - yep, that's a problem.  But there are many asians elsewhere: japanese (although they usually don't emmigrate) republic of china, etc.  The point is, we need to improve the quality of our immigrants, we don't need to be the dumping ground for the third world.  Europe might help, but they don't have their minds right after centuries of statism, and it looks like they've agreed to eventually become the Western Caliphate.


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## PoliticalChic (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


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"...there are many asians elsewhere: japanese (although they usually don't emmigrate) republic of china, etc"

You left out South Korea on purpose- didn't ya'!

I'm doing my Edith Piaf face right now!


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Jul 31, 2011)

> I just gave it!!!





> You must have posted while I composing my post.



Im sure you two will be very happy together. Birds of a feather, and all that. 

As to the OP: ignorant, racist, illegal  typical of the right.


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## PoliticalChic (Jul 31, 2011)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


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Ohhhh....
....poor Jonesy.

Did you feel left out?
And, shouldn't you be used to it by now?


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## SFC Ollie (Jul 31, 2011)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


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Don't even make this typical of the right.

It's insane.

Round up all illegals and ship them back to wherever they came from would be a good thing. But to attempt genetic engineering? No Way Jose.........

Our immigration laws allow a certain number of people to legally enter the country. there are rules for who and from where they are permitted to enter from.  The only problem with our immigration law is the illegals.


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## DiAnna (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> What if the US rid itself of the illegal alien mexicans: anchor babies, "dream act" parasites, drug pushers - even the 25% of the california prison population who are alien criminals, and replaced them with 20 million asians?
> 
> Asians have high IQs.  They have an excellent work ethic, are responsible, family oriented, etc.  We could get a lot of them the PRC.  The chinese "one child" and forced abortion programs have produced a great surplus of young chinese men (chinese parents prefer boys if they only have one child) who will never get married there.
> 
> We could hook them up with the large number of single black women.  We could require an IQ of 165 and above, and there would be plenty who would meet that requirement.  They would greatly enhance our economy, because what we need now isn't fruit pickers, but people who can create innovative new products that will revive our economy.



The problem is not the ethnicity of the 20 million illegals.  It's the fact that they are here illegally, stealing social security & green card numbers, and costing billions upon billions in welfare, education and medical costs to taxpayers.  Illegal Asians, illegal Europeans, illegal Africans, same damned problem.  We don't know who they are, we don't know where they are, we don't know what they are doing because they, duh, *are here illegally.*

Your entire premise reeks of satire, but the subject itself is a serious one despite your attempts at race-baiting.


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## rightwinger (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> What if the US rid itself of the illegal alien mexicans: anchor babies, "dream act" parasites, drug pushers - even the 25% of the california prison population who are alien criminals, and replaced them with 20 million asians?
> 
> Asians have high IQs.  They have an excellent work ethic, are responsible, family oriented, etc.  We could get a lot of them the PRC.  The chinese "one child" and forced abortion programs have produced a great surplus of young chinese men (chinese parents prefer boys if they only have one child) who will never get married there.
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> We could hook them up with the large number of single black women.  We could require an IQ of 165 and above, and there would be plenty who would meet that requirement.  They would greatly enhance our economy, because what we need now isn't fruit pickers, but people who can create innovative new products that will revive our economy.



I don't think so......they are terrible drivers


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


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Idiot throwing a race card - thank you, now quit cluttering the thread.


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## rightwinger (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


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And such an inspirational thread it is


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## Douger (Jul 31, 2011)

Chiggers.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkqPJpRqka0]&#x202a;Black China Man&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube[/ame]


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## Cecilie1200 (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> What if the US rid itself of the illegal alien mexicans: anchor babies, "dream act" parasites, drug pushers - even the 25% of the california prison population who are alien criminals, and replaced them with 20 million asians?
> 
> Asians have high IQs.  They have an excellent work ethic, are responsible, family oriented, etc.  We could get a lot of them the PRC.  The chinese "one child" and forced abortion programs have produced a great surplus of young chinese men (chinese parents prefer boys if they only have one child) who will never get married there.
> 
> We could hook them up with the large number of single black women.  We could require an IQ of 165 and above, and there would be plenty who would meet that requirement.  They would greatly enhance our economy, because what we need now isn't fruit pickers, but people who can create innovative new products that will revive our economy.



 

I hope to God this incredibly offensive mess is just a tongue-in-cheek, lame attempt at humor and sarcasm, rather than an utterly serious racist pile of dog vomit.  If it IS serious, I'm not even sure where to begin being offended.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> Uhhhh, any response from those with an IQ over 80?



Son, BOTH sides of the aisle find your post disgusting.  I don't think you can blame objections to it on lack of intelligence in the READERS; just in the poster.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


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Dumbass, you open the thread with a post a) denigrating people of Mexican descent, b) assuming people are just short of being saints SOLELY based on their being Asian, c) take a passing swipe at the black community, and d) then propose forced breeding programs, and YOU want to accuse someone ELSE of "throwing the race card"?

Shut the fuck up.


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

rightwinger said:


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And here you are, posting in it.


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


> Patrick2 said:
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ANOTHER imbecile with a race card!


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## whitehall (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> What if the US rid itself of the illegal alien mexicans: anchor babies, "dream act" parasites, drug pushers - even the 25% of the california prison population who are alien criminals, and replaced them with 20 million asians?
> 
> Asians have high IQs.  They have an excellent work ethic, are responsible, family oriented, etc.  We could get a lot of them the PRC.  The chinese "one child" and forced abortion programs have produced a great surplus of young chinese men (chinese parents prefer boys if they only have one child) who will never get married there.
> 
> We could hook them up with the large number of single black women.  We could require an IQ of 165 and above, and there would be plenty who would meet that requirement.  They would greatly enhance our economy, because what we need now isn't fruit pickers, but people who can create innovative new products that will revive our economy.



What is this, some sort of neo-nazi craziness? Why would the US "need" to replace illegal aliens at all? Is the left still basing it's limited opinion on the old eugenics code?


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


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Where the intelligence is is clear - the obamabots here can't do anything beyond their boring predictable race card toss - no facts, no arguments - nothing.


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


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Noooooo.... solely on their invading and looting my country.



> assuming people are just short of being saints SOLELY based on their being Asian



Nooooooo...... I described their traits based on the MANY I've met and know from university and work.



> take a passing swipe at the black community



No I didn't - you're hallucinating. 



> then propose forced breeding programs



Whaaaaaaaattttttt??????  I said nothing of the kind - you're insane.


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

whitehall said:


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## whitehall (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


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## Cecilie1200 (Jul 31, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


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Anyone who thinks objecting to blatant racism is "throwing the race card" has no business calling someone else an imbecile.


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

whitehall said:


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


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It's a race card toss alright.  When you screech racism without engaging in debate, that's all it is.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jul 31, 2011)

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Shitforbrains, what part of "BOTH sides of the aisle" didn't register on your two-watt intelligence?  It's hardly "the Obamabots tossing the race card" when EVERYONE, regardless of their political leanings, thinks you're an ignorant, fascist, racist dimwit.

In case you didn't notice it - or have such short-term memory damage that you forgot who you were talking to - Political Chic and I have both excoriated your revolting premise, and NO ONE would deny that we're two of the most right-wing conservative people on USMB.

Not but I would expect something as piss-ignorant as automatically assuming anyone who objects to you must be an "Obamabot" from someone who posts a noxious OP like yours.

Wake up and smell the coffee, asshole.


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## Cecilie1200 (Jul 31, 2011)

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No, fucknut.  When someone makes ignorant, useless racist remarks and you point out their racism, that's called "stating a fact".  When someone makes an ignorant, useless racist remark and then expects people to DEBATE it as though it's intelligent, thoughtful, and important, that's called "being brain-dead".  I can't even imagine why you think anyone would degrade themselves far enough to actually waste time refuting a moronic statement like "Asians have high IQs and a strong work ethic", or discussing a proposal like "Let's get some Chinese men and hook 'em up with some single black women".

You want a debate?  Say something that isn't stupid and contemptible.


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

Cecilie1200 said:


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Oh EVERYONE in the country agreed?   And even if they did, truth isn't a matter of a "vote", but rather the consequence of a successful argument, something you can't manage while your panties are in a knot. 



> In case you didn't notice it - or have such short-term memory damage that you forgot who you were talking to - Political Chic and I have both excoriated your revolting premise, and NO ONE would deny that we're two of the most right-wing conservative people on USMB.



TWO votes huh?  Well, that does it for me.


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## whitehall (Jul 31, 2011)

Here's the deal, the (patrick) left wants to make a point about immigration but him and the fool who uses the Ed Norton logo tip their latent racist hands by assuming that Hispanics will never rise to the hundred year old eugenics expectations and they should be replaced with a different genetic coded race which is more acceptable. The argument is foolish to normal people but it is just the tip of the hate filled iceburg with the arrogant left. God help us if the radical left ever controls society.


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## Patrick2 (Jul 31, 2011)

whitehall said:


> Here's the deal, the (patrick) left wants to make a point about immigration but him and the fool who uses the Ed Norton logo tip their latent racist hands by assuming that Hispanics will never rise to the hundred year old eugenics expectations and they should be replaced with a different genetic coded race which is more acceptable. The argument is foolish to normal people but it is just the tip of the hate filled iceburg with the arrogant left. God help us if the radical left ever controls society.



The asian love of learning, and the general hispanic indifference (ask ANY southern california K12 teacher who will tell the truth) plus the IQ scores are FACTS.

As John Adams said "Facts are stubborn things."


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## Cecilie1200 (Aug 1, 2011)

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Not even a good try (but just about the level of brilliance I would expect from someone stupid enough to be a racist).  We're not talking about "everyone in the country", because you're far from being a national figure.  We're talking about your pig-ignorant post on this message board, and the board denizens who have responded to it, and who have UNIFORMLY declared you stupid and racist REGARDLESS of what area of the political spectrum they hail from.  When you have Politic Chic and myself agreeing with people like Sallow and rightwinger, it's time to lose the "I'm so brilliant; I obviously touched a liberal nerve" rap and realize that you're a racist piece of shit.



Patrick2 said:


> > In case you didn't notice it - or have such short-term memory damage that you forgot who you were talking to - Political Chic and I have both excoriated your revolting premise, and NO ONE would deny that we're two of the most right-wing conservative people on USMB.
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As I pointed out - not that I expect you to be able to count effectively - EVERY SINGLE POSTER in this thread so far has thought you were ignorant, racist garbage.

And while two votes alone might not constitute proof that you're a racist all by themselves, those two particular votes DO constitute pretty substantial proof that it's not "Obamabots" holding you in contempt.


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## Cecilie1200 (Aug 1, 2011)

whitehall said:


> Here's the deal, the (patrick) left wants to make a point about immigration but him and the fool who uses the Ed Norton logo tip their latent racist hands by assuming that Hispanics will never rise to the hundred year old eugenics expectations and they should be replaced with a different genetic coded race which is more acceptable. The argument is foolish to normal people but it is just the tip of the hate filled iceburg with the arrogant left. God help us if the radical left ever controls society.



What really fascinates me is this mindless canonization of all Asians as brilliant prodigies and computer nerds.  It's just an updated version of "all black people have rhythm and a great jump shot".


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## Cecilie1200 (Aug 1, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


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> > Here's the deal, the (patrick) left wants to make a point about immigration but him and the fool who uses the Ed Norton logo tip their latent racist hands by assuming that Hispanics will never rise to the hundred year old eugenics expectations and they should be replaced with a different genetic coded race which is more acceptable. The argument is foolish to normal people but it is just the tip of the hate filled iceburg with the arrogant left. God help us if the radical left ever controls society.
> ...



Yeah, it's a "fact" that all Asians are geeky computer nerds and all Hispanics are ignorant, lettuce-picking drunks.  

The most stubborn fact around here is that you're a Neolithic racist retard.


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## Tank (Aug 1, 2011)

I can't believe how many people are now against interacial relationships.


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## Patrick2 (Aug 1, 2011)

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Well wait.  There was that renowned mexican physicist.  Nobel in quantum electro-dynamics.  What was his name?  Dang - can't remember ...............


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## Cecilie1200 (Aug 1, 2011)

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Well, let's see.  People of Hispanic ethnicity who are scientists:

Luis Walter Alvarez - won a Nobel Prize in physics in 1968.
Franklin Chang-Diaz - doctorate in applied plasma physics from MIT, first astronaut from Costa Rica.
Luis Miramontes - chemist who helped invent - and holds the first patent for - oral contraceptives, aka. the Pill.
Mario Molina - won a Nobel Prize in chemistry in 1995.
Ellen Ochoa - Dr. Ochoa was the first Hispanic female astronaut.  She's also an engineer and a classical musician . . . and all without even having a penis!

As before, the fact that you don't know something just means that you're an idiot.


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## rightwinger (Aug 1, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


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More like ridiculing its author like everyone else who posted here


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## PoliticalChic (Aug 1, 2011)

Tank said:


> I can't believe how many people are now against interacial relationships.



*The number of interracial couples has steadily increased *since the Supreme Court's 1967 ruling in Loving v. Virginia, but also continues representing an absolute minority among the total number of married couples. According to the United States Census Bureau The number of Interrracial married couples with one spouse either White or Black has increased significantly from 310,000 in 1970 to 651,000 in 1980, 964,000 in 1990, 1,464,000 in 2000 and to 2,340,000 in 2008, accounting for 0.7%, 1.3%, 1.8%, 2.6% and 3.9% of the total number of married couples in those years, respectively.[10] These statistics do not take into account the mixing of ancestries within the same "race"; e.g. a marriage involving Indian and Japanese ancestries would not be classified as interracial due to the Census regarding both as the same category. Likewise, since Hispanic is not a race but an ethnicity, Hispanic marriages with non-Hispanics are not registered as interracial if both partners are of the same race (i.e. a Black Hispanic marrying a non-Hispanic Black partner).

Interracial marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## wardad (Aug 1, 2011)

so patrick u still livin in your moms basement?


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## Patrick2 (Aug 1, 2011)

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Here you are trying to pull a fast one - changing "mexican" to "hispanic"  - didn't get away with it, but nice try. 



> Luis Walter Alvarez - won a Nobel Prize in physics in 1968.



Alvarez was top drawer - but he is of spanish (as in spain) and anglo descent not mexican descent.



> Franklin Chang-Diaz - doctorate in applied plasma physics from MIT, first astronaut from Costa Rica.



Chang - little asian mixed in there. 



> Mario Molina - won a Nobel Prize in chemistry in 1995.



Notable papers co-authored with an anglo. (yawwwwwnnnnn)



> Ellen Ochoa - Dr. Ochoa was the first Hispanic female astronaut.



She was a passenger on the shuttle, whose crews were, after the initial flights, always chosen based on an "affirmative action"  "balance".  Whoopee doo.


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## Cecilie1200 (Aug 1, 2011)

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I "pulled" nothing.  YOU are the one in here, desperately trying to make your skin color and penis something to be proud of, since presumably you HAVE nothing else, so I didn't figure it mattered to you WHERE the little brown brothers came from.  I didn't realize you had a specific hate-on for Mexicans in particular.

"Oh, he worked with white people", and "Oh, she was a just a passenger on the shuttle", like it's a Greyhound bus or something.  'Nuff said.  You lose.  Time spent on the ignorant racist = over.

FLUSH!


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## Patrick2 (Aug 1, 2011)

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You are one of these knee-jerk libs, who doesn't hear what people say, just the Pee See wheels spinning in your head.  PART of it, as I implied, is CULTURE - eg, the tendencies of asians to value learning.  I HATE >>invaders of our country<<, who like all invaders, come here to loot and take over.  An american who doesn't hate that is a coward and/or a traitor.  The VAST majority of the invaders are mexican, but Pee See requires you to pretend they're just as likely to be from Sweden. 

That's what a lot of Pee See is, inventing a pretend world, and getting upset if some don't go along with the fantasy.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 1, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


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You are very confused. My advice to you would be STFU.


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## Kuros (Aug 1, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> What if the US rid itself of the illegal alien mexicans: anchor babies, "dream act" parasites, drug pushers - even the 25% of the california prison population who are alien criminals, and replaced them with 20 million asians?
> 
> Asians have high IQs.  They have an excellent work ethic, are responsible, family oriented, etc.  We could get a lot of them the PRC.  The chinese "one child" and forced abortion programs have produced a great surplus of young chinese men (chinese parents prefer boys if they only have one child) who will never get married there.
> 
> We could hook them up with the large number of single black women.  We could require an IQ of 165 and above, and there would be plenty who would meet that requirement.  They would greatly enhance our economy, because what we need now isn't fruit pickers, but people who can create innovative new products that will revive our economy.



You're weird.


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## Patrick2 (Aug 2, 2011)

SFC Ollie said:


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Stand down sergeant - you've taken orders from an organization infected with PC for 30 years, and have low cred.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 2, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


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You have so very much to learn.


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## Patrick2 (Aug 2, 2011)

SFC Ollie said:


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Like what?   Speak up, mister.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 2, 2011)

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No need for me to speak up. Your reputation will teach you if you hang around here long enough. And you will learn who is right and left of center, and who the racists are. And who is PC and who is not. Frankly, right now you haven't a clue.


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## happy12 (Aug 3, 2011)

he problem is not the ethnicity of the 20 million illegals. It's the fact that they are here illegally, stealing social security & green card numbers, and costing billions upon billions in welfare, education and medical costs to taxpayers. Illegal Asians, illegal Europeans, illegal Africans, same damned problem. We don't know who they are, we don't know where they are, we don't know what they are doing because they, duh, are here illegally.


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## CryingKoala (Aug 4, 2011)

EXPLODING MYTHS ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS

The immigration debate is raging in America. There are an estimated 11 million illegal aliens in the U.S. and the proposals regarding what to do about them run the entire spectrum from "throw them all out" to "give them all Green Cards".

There are many myths regarding who immigrates to the U.S. and why.

After practicing immigration law for 27 years in the Tri-City area, I may have some insight into the issues surrounding those in undocumented status in the U.S. since most of my practice over the years has involved Mexican farm workers. Estimates indicate that probably 60% of the 11 million illegal aliens are from Mexico. In a 3-part series I will discuss the 15 most common myths about undocumented immigrants.

MYTH #1. ILLEGAL ALIENS TAKE AMERICAN JOBS.

Not so. For the most part, illegal aliens work jobs Americans simply do not want. Those jobs include farm workers, janitors, chambermaids, busboys, dishwashers, gardeners, nannies and household domestics. Those are not the careers Americans seek. The jobs Mexicans perform in the U.S. are usually minimum wage with no benefits. They do the lousy, back-breaking work Americans can but refuse to do.

MYTH #2. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T PAY TAXES

Not True. The majority of illegal aliens pay the exact same taxes you and I pay. Most illegal aliens work for employers who don't know they are illegal or, possibly suspect they may be illegal, but don't want to know for sure.

As a result, the typical employer of an undocumented worker deducts all the federal income and other taxes from all his employees - legal and illegal alike.

MYTH #3. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T LEARN ENGLISH OR ASSIMILATE.

Yes and No. The typical Mexican who grew up in Mexico attended school there for only 3 to 6 years. As a result, most of the older Mexicans who are here only speak their native language at a basic level. As a result, it is tremendously difficult for many of those adults to learn fluent English.

The children of those older immigrants, however, go to school in the U.S., are immersed in English-speaking American culture and virtually all speak English. Those second-generation Mexicans speak English and assimilate into U.S. culture the same way the Irish, Italians, Japanese and every other group of new immigrants have.

MYTH #4. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO THE U.S. ECONOMY; THEY JUST COME HERE TO GET ON WELFARE.

Not even close. Illegal aliens contribute immensely to the U.S. economy. They work hard and perform the essential jobs that are vital to keeping the U.S. economy moving forward. They pay taxes and consume goods-from cars and gas to groceries and houses - and buy services which, in turn, benefits those U.S. citizens selling those goods and services.

As for illegal aliens signing up for welfare, U.S. law strictly prohibits those here illegally from obtaining welfare, food stamps or any other type of public assistance.

MYTH #5. ILLEGAL ALIENS CAN AND SHOULD APPLY TO LEGALLY COME IN TO WORK IN THE U.S.

Great idea, except it just happens to be impossible. The present system for employment-based immigration allows only 5,000 low-skill Green Cards per year for the entire United States.

The solution to our immigration dilemma will only come from comprehensive immigration reform. That reform must include 4 parts: 1) Secure the southern border, 2) Allow those here to apply for earned legalization, 3) Require all employers to verify the immigration status of their employees, and 4) Allow some flexible number of low-skill Green Cards in the future in light of the needs of the U.S. economy.

MYTH #6. ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A DISPROPORTIONATE PERCENTAGE OF CRIME.

Not true. Numerous reputable studies have shown that the problem of crime in the United States is not caused or even aggravated by immigrants, regardless of their legal status. Over the past few years, when someone is arrested the first question they are asked by the police after their name and address is, "Where were you born?" If the answer to that question is not "U.S.A." the Border Patrol is automatically contacted and the person, if undocumented, is immediately placed into the deportation process. As a result, undocumented individuals have a very high incentive to not break the law.

MYTH #7. ILLEGAL ALIENS ABUSE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

Not so. The general rule is that those who are here in undocumented status are not entitled to any taxpayer funded health care. The exception to that rule is that those here illegally can get emergency medical treatment. A recent RAND corporation study states as follows: "The foreign-born (especially the undocumented) use disproportionately fewer medical services and contribute less to health care costs in relation to their population share."

MYTH #8. ILLEGAL ALIENS CAN AND SHOULD BE FERRETED OUT AND DEPORTED FROM THE U.S.

Not likely. The estimated 11 million undocumented individuals in the U.S. is equivalent to the entire populations of Washington, Oregon and Idaho combined. It would be impossible to locate and deport that many people. Besides, millions of those adults unlawfully here have an estimated 4 million U.S. citizen children who the government would be required to find foster parents for if their parents were deported. Finally, if a magic wand was waved and all undocumented workers were gone tomorrow, it is highly unlikely that native-born Americans would do the lousy, back-breaking agricultural and other minimum wage/no benefits work that the undocumented do in the U.S. economy.

MYTH #9. THE ILLEGAL ALIEN PROBLEM WOULD BE FIXED IF WE JUST COMPLETED THE FENCE ALONG THE SOUTHERN BORDER.

No even close. For every 15-foot fence there is a 16-foot ladder or a shovel that can dig underneath it. Besides, 40% of those undocumented in the U.S.-about 4.4 million-entered legally and overstayed their visas. The fence may help but it alone will not solve our immigration situation.

MYTH #10. THE PROPOSED IMMIGRATION REFORMS IN CONGRESS ARE JUST ANOTHER 'AMNESTY'.

No. Amnesty is defined as "Forgiveness without penalty." All of the immigration reform proposals require payment of a fine (maybe $1000), learning some English, paying all back taxes (if any are owed) and going to the back of the line before obtaining Legal Permanent Residence status.

The solution to our immigration dilemma will only come from comprehensive immigration reform. That reform must include 4 parts: 1) Secure the southern border, 2) Allow those here to apply for earned legalization, 3) Require all employers to verify the immigration status of their employees, and 4) Allow some flexible number of low-skill Green Cards in the future in light of the needs of the U.S. economy.

MYTH #11. AMERICANS DON'T SUPPORT IMMIGRATION REFORM.

Not true. When Americans are asked the question, "Do you support a legalization program that would allow those in the U.S. illegally to obtain legal status if they could meet the following requirements: a strong work history, no serious criminal convictions, no deportations, learn some English, pay all back taxes, pay a fine and go to the back of the immigration line," numerous polls have shown that 60 to 70% of likely voters are in favor of such a solution to our immigration situation.

MYTH #12. DENYING ILLEGAL ALIENS DRIVER'S LICENSES WILL HELP SOLVE THE IMMIGRATION PROBLEM.

That's crazy. The overwhelming reason why the undocumented are here is to work. Almost all workers in America need to drive to get to work. Workers, especially farm workers, typically must travel long distances to get to and from work. From the point of view of the public safety of U.S. citizens, it is much better if everyone driving on the highways has completed a driver's course and has qualified for a driver's license.

MYTH #13. IF EVERY EMPLOYER WAS REQUIRED TO VERIFY THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER OF EVERY EMPLOYEE, WE COULD SOLVE OUR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION SITUATION.

Well, yes, sort of. A mandatory social security verification system is a good idea but only if there is an earned legalization program put in place simultaneously. Under current circumstances, requiring social security verification without earned legalization would create chaos in many sectors of the U.S. economy. It is estimated that 50-60% of farm workers are undocumented and the percentage of undocumented workers in many other low-skill, minimum-wage, no benefits jobs-such as dishwashers, gardeners, dairy workers, janitors, chambermaids-is also very high.

MYTH #14. A LAW LIKE THE NEW LAW IN ARIZONA WOULD SOLVE OUR IMMIGRATION SITUATION.

No way. The Arizona law is an over reaction and can best be compared to how we over reacted in 1942 when the U.S. government placed all west coast Japanese in internment camps. Thirty percent of Arizona's citizens-over 2 million people-are Hispanic and legal. The Arizona law is vague and invites discrimination against them.

MYTH #15. THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE UPSET ABOUT THE CURRENT IMMIGRATION SITUATION ARE RACISTS.

Not even close. Of course, some racism does exist in this debate. But, for the most part, the American public is frustrated and angry that our elected officials prefer to play "gotcha" politics with this difficult and controversial issue rather than addressing it in a mature, common sense manner. Most Americans recognize that most of the people here illegally are working hard at low-end jobs and they believe the politicians should find some rational solution to this very contentious matter.

The solution to our immigration dilemma will only come from comprehensive immigration reform. That reform must include 4 parts: 1) Secure the southern border, 2) Allow those here to apply for earned legalization, 3) Require all employers to verify the immigration status of their employees, and 4) Allow some flexible number of low-skill Green Cards in the future in light of the needs of the U.S. economy.


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## High_Gravity (Aug 4, 2011)

The guy who started this thread was a fuckin retard.


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## CryingKoala (Aug 4, 2011)

Titcr!!!!


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## uscitizen (Aug 4, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> What if the US rid itself of the illegal alien mexicans: anchor babies, "dream act" parasites, drug pushers - even the 25% of the california prison population who are alien criminals, and replaced them with 20 million asians?
> 
> Asians have high IQs.  They have an excellent work ethic, are responsible, family oriented, etc.  We could get a lot of them the PRC.  The chinese "one child" and forced abortion programs have produced a great surplus of young chinese men (chinese parents prefer boys if they only have one child) who will never get married there.
> 
> We could hook them up with the large number of single black women.  We could require an IQ of 165 and above, and there would be plenty who would meet that requirement.  They would greatly enhance our economy, because what we need now isn't fruit pickers, but people who can create innovative new products that will revive our economy.



Repalce em with aisains like HI did?


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## Tank (Aug 4, 2011)

If Mexicans are so great, why is Mexico a shithole?


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## CryingKoala (Aug 4, 2011)

There are Mexicans in Hawaii? 

That's a helluva border crossing!


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## uscitizen (Aug 4, 2011)

Asians


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## CryingKoala (Aug 4, 2011)

Tank said:


> If Mexicans are so great, why is Mexico a shithole?



The same reason why Chinese and Indian Americans are so smart and their countries are so crappy. Darwinism. 

The smart, hard working ones come over here


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## Tank (Aug 4, 2011)




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## CryingKoala (Aug 4, 2011)

That sign shows a better command of the English language than a lot of native born citizens I know.


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## Tank (Aug 4, 2011)

You're right about that, what they wrote is perfecty clear


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 4, 2011)

I didn't read all the myths. Since the first one was wrong I skipped the rest. I hear this so many times and I always remember CNN interviewing that illegal who was a Restaurant manager. I'm so positive that no legal immigrant or American wanted that job.................


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## Cecilie1200 (Aug 4, 2011)

CryingKoala said:


> EXPLODING MYTHS ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS
> 
> The immigration debate is raging in America. There are an estimated 11 million illegal aliens in the U.S. and the proposals regarding what to do about them run the entire spectrum from "throw them all out" to "give them all Green Cards".
> 
> ...



Bullshit.  Our best estimates are that, in the agriculture industry (the one with the highest number of illegals employed), they still only make up 25% of the workforce.  Which means the other 75% are legal residents.  Obviously, Americans DO want those jobs, and all the ones in which they make up an even higher percentage of workers than the illegals do.

I will admit, however, that Americans tend NOT to want those jobs _at the shitty slave wages illegals are willing to work for_.  Which means that they ARE taking jobs away from Americans, by pricing them out of the market.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #2. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T PAY TAXES
> 
> Not True. The majority of illegal aliens pay the exact same taxes you and I pay. Most illegal aliens work for employers who don't know they are illegal or, possibly suspect they may be illegal, but don't want to know for sure.
> 
> As a result, the typical employer of an undocumented worker deducts all the federal income and other taxes from all his employees - legal and illegal alike.



No offense, but I think I'd like to see some proof of this other than your word for it.

According to a report by Wall Street investment firm Bear Stearns,  _The Underground Labor Force is Rising to the Surface_, approximately 5 million illegal aliens work under the table and get paid on a cash basis . . . which means they're not paying any taxes except sales tax when they buy something.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #3. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T LEARN ENGLISH OR ASSIMILATE.
> 
> Yes and No. The typical Mexican who grew up in Mexico attended school there for only 3 to 6 years. As a result, most of the older Mexicans who are here only speak their native language at a basic level. As a result, it is tremendously difficult for many of those adults to learn fluent English.
> 
> The children of those older immigrants, however, go to school in the U.S., are immersed in English-speaking American culture and virtually all speak English. Those second-generation Mexicans speak English and assimilate into U.S. culture the same way the Irish, Italians, Japanese and every other group of new immigrants have.



Glad to hear it, but those second-generation Mexicans are, likely as not, American citizens (aka "anchor babies").  As such, they're a completely different part of the illegal alien problem from the actual illegals who come here as adults and DON'T assimilate.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #4. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO THE U.S. ECONOMY; THEY JUST COME HERE TO GET ON WELFARE.
> 
> Not even close. Illegal aliens contribute immensely to the U.S. economy. They work hard and perform the essential jobs that are vital to keeping the U.S. economy moving forward. They pay taxes and consume goods-from cars and gas to groceries and houses - and buy services which, in turn, benefits those U.S. citizens selling those goods and services.
> 
> As for illegal aliens signing up for welfare, U.S. law strictly prohibits those here illegally from obtaining welfare, food stamps or any other type of public assistance.



I don't think anyone has suggested they don't contribute to the economy.  I think the ACTUAL complaint is that they take more out than they put in, which is quite true.

Those who actually have jobs presumably perform those jobs, that's true.  However, they artificially depress wages for those jobs because they basically amount to slave labor, which moves Americans out of those job fields.

While some of them do pay taxes by way of stolen IDs and Social Security numbers (and please don't look for me to applaud them for THAT), they cost quite a bit more in taxpayer programs than they ever pay in, particularly since they don't exactly fill high-paying jobs.

The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) estimates that illegal immigrants and their families cost the state of California alone (the state with the highest population of illegals) $10.5 billion per year.  $7.7 billion a year goes to educate the children in California's already-hurting K-12 public school system.  $1.4 billion apiece goes to providing health care to them and their families and to incarcerating those illegals who commit crimes.  And that's just ONE state.  My own state, Arizona, has seen several of its community hospitals, which used to serve the poor and indigent populations of its cities, collapse and go bankrupt under the weight of the illegal immigration waves crashing over them.

If all we wanted was people to consume products, we'd be just as happy to have them go home and export the shit to them, thanks.

If you believe that horseshit about "illegals can't get welfare", then I have some bottomland I'd like to sell you . . . just don't ask what it's on the bottom OF.  That's like saying "Illegals can't get jobs because you can't get hired without a Social Security card".  Uh huh.  Right.  The welfare system is just as vulnerable to fake paperwork as employers are, PLUS illegal immigrants with anchor babies can get cash assistance, food stamps, and Medicaid for THEM completely legally.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #5. ILLEGAL ALIENS CAN AND SHOULD APPLY TO LEGALLY COME IN TO WORK IN THE U.S.
> 
> Great idea, except it just happens to be impossible. The present system for employment-based immigration allows only 5,000 low-skill Green Cards per year for the entire United States.
> 
> The solution to our immigration dilemma will only come from comprehensive immigration reform. That reform must include 4 parts: 1) Secure the southern border, 2) Allow those here to apply for earned legalization, 3) Require all employers to verify the immigration status of their employees, and 4) Allow some flexible number of low-skill Green Cards in the future in light of the needs of the U.S. economy.



_Pobrecito_.  My heart bleeds.  No, wait, it doesn't.  "It's too hard to obey your law because it doesn't let me do what I want when I want to" is not an argument that's going to cut a lot of ice around here.  The present system for legal low-skilled immigration has such a low number because . . . oh, gee, let me think:  because we don't want that many unskilled people flooding into our country?  When did we become obligated to let them in just because they want to come?

Besides, have you considered that one of the reasons that the number of low-skilled Green Cards is set so low is BECAUSE there are already so many illegal immigrants here flooding that market and artificially depressing the wages there?

While I agree that we must secure our borders and crack down on employers, I feel no obligation whatsoever to make accommodations to people who have already shown that respecting us and our laws means nothing to them.  And I will be willing to talk about adjusting Green Card numbers if and when the population of illegal immigrants drops, and then only on the basis of benefit to the US.  I do not approve of making laws for our nation based on what people who are not members of our nation want us to do.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #6. ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A DISPROPORTIONATE PERCENTAGE OF CRIME.
> 
> Not true. Numerous reputable studies have shown that the problem of crime in the United States is not caused or even aggravated by immigrants, regardless of their legal status. Over the past few years, when someone is arrested the first question they are asked by the police after their name and address is, "Where were you born?" If the answer to that question is not "U.S.A." the Border Patrol is automatically contacted and the person, if undocumented, is immediately placed into the deportation process. As a result, undocumented individuals have a very high incentive to not break the law.



I would appreciate it if you would actually cite those "numerous reputable studies".  Again, no offense, but it is not my inclination to simply take anyone's word for anything without proof.

Furthermore, I would have to say that ANY crime by illegal immigrants is "disproportionate", simply because _they shouldn't be here at all, let alone here breaking the law_.  Call me obsessively single-minded, but it's always going to come back to that for me.  Whatever it is they're doing while there here is a problem, because they shouldn't be here.  Period.  End of story.

Nothing personal (and I mean that), but you really have to be smoking something if you actually think the cops are asking where suspects are born or reporting them to the Border Patrol on any sort of regular basis.  One of the biggest problems in border states like Arizona - and one of the major reasons we passed SB 1070 - was because our law enforcement was actually PROHIBITED from asking any sort of question involving people's immigration status.  And reporting them to the BP and actually getting it followed up on is just a joke.

The fact is, no one really knows for sure how much crime is committed by illegal immigrants, because - like most criminals - they tend to select their victims from the same community they themselves come from, which means that their victims are disinclined to report it.  Plus, there are all the crimes that DO get reported, but for which no perpetrator is ever arrested.  How the hell can you tell if the criminal was legal or not in that situation?

Here's what we DO know, however:  The National Index Crime Rate Map indicates that five of the top ten states for high crime rates are Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana (which, of course, cozies up next to Texas), and Florida.  If 
California was divided into north and south, Southern California would be in that group, as well.  Coincidence?  Hardly.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #7. ILLEGAL ALIENS ABUSE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
> 
> Not so. The general rule is that those who are here in undocumented status are not entitled to any taxpayer funded health care. The exception to that rule is that those here illegally can get emergency medical treatment. A recent RAND corporation study states as follows: "The foreign-born (especially the undocumented) use disproportionately fewer medical services and contribute less to health care costs in relation to their population share."



Amazingly enough, it really doesn't matter if their ER visits are "disproportionally less than their population share", when it's still MORE than enough to bankrupt the community hospitals that serve the poor and indigent communities.  And it is, and has.

We're back to the whole "anything is too much, because they shouldn't be here at all" point.

And completely aside from their ER visits and such for regular, everyday illnesses, how about the added danger they bring with them of diseases?  The United States eradicated malaria in the 1940s via DDT, but recently, we've seen new outbreaks of it, and it's been found tainting the bloody supply.  Dengue is a leading cause of death in children in many third-world countries.  It used to be completely unknown here, but there have recently been outbreaks of that.  Leprosy, also known as Hansen's Disease, had only 900 cases in the US in the 40 years prior to 2002.  In the three years following that, there were _9,000 cases_, and most of them were illegals.  The US has one of the lowest rates of tuberculosis in the world, but it's rising, and 84% of the reported cases are of "foreign-born" patients (the Journal of the American Medical Association, which reported this, is reluctant to label anyone as "illegal").  Worse, a new, multi-drug-resistant strain of TB has turned up, and it costs between $250,000 and $1,200,000 to treat per patient.  Guess who's footing THAT bill, if the patient in question is illegal?



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #8. ILLEGAL ALIENS CAN AND SHOULD BE FERRETED OUT AND DEPORTED FROM THE U.S.
> 
> Not likely. The estimated 11 million undocumented individuals in the U.S. is equivalent to the entire populations of Washington, Oregon and Idaho combined. It would be impossible to locate and deport that many people. Besides, millions of those adults unlawfully here have an estimated 4 million U.S. citizen children who the government would be required to find foster parents for if their parents were deported. Finally, if a magic wand was waved and all undocumented workers were gone tomorrow, it is highly unlikely that native-born Americans would do the lousy, back-breaking agricultural and other minimum wage/no benefits work that the undocumented do in the U.S. economy.



"We can't stop them, so fuck it, let's just give up" is ALSO an argument unlikely to gain much traction around here.

The fact is that we DO find and deport quite a lot of illegal immigrants already, and our efforts are . . . well, pretty damned half-assed at the moment.  I see no evidence whatsoever that if we actually started to take enforcing our laws seriously, we couldn't do so effectively.  Arizona has already had a great deal of success in both deporting illegals and also in convincing them to go away on their own via SB 1070, and that's with a big portion of its provisions being blocked from implementation.

It's not unlikely at all that Americans would do the jobs that illegals currently occupy.  After all, there is no industry in which illegals are even the majority of workers, let alone all of them.  And prior to the floods of illegals we currently have, those jobs WERE done by legal residents.

Also, it's a myth that illegals are just picking lettuce, digging ditches, washing dishes, cleaning toilets, etc.  A number of jobs which used to be respectable, middle-class trades, such as in the construction industry, are increasingly becoming jobs done by illegals, at artificially depressed wages which drive Americans out of those markets.

The free market will adjust.  That's kind of what it's known for.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #9. THE ILLEGAL ALIEN PROBLEM WOULD BE FIXED IF WE JUST COMPLETED THE FENCE ALONG THE SOUTHERN BORDER.
> 
> No even close. For every 15-foot fence there is a 16-foot ladder or a shovel that can dig underneath it. Besides, 40% of those undocumented in the U.S.-about 4.4 million-entered legally and overstayed their visas. The fence may help but it alone will not solve our immigration situation.



This one actually IS a myth.  Much of the illegal immigration flooding across Arizona's border, for example, has already advanced far beyond the "fence" level.  Law enforcement here is constantly finding tunnels under the border, plus any number of other scams perpetrated by "coyotes" which wouldn't be stopped at all by a fence.

Even the Great Wall of China sucked at keeping people out of the country.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #10. THE PROPOSED IMMIGRATION REFORMS IN CONGRESS ARE JUST ANOTHER 'AMNESTY'.
> 
> No. Amnesty is defined as "Forgiveness without penalty." All of the immigration reform proposals require payment of a fine (maybe $1000), learning some English, paying all back taxes (if any are owed) and going to the back of the line before obtaining Legal Permanent Residence status.
> 
> The solution to our immigration dilemma will only come from comprehensive immigration reform. That reform must include 4 parts: 1) Secure the southern border, 2) Allow those here to apply for earned legalization, 3) Require all employers to verify the immigration status of their employees, and 4) Allow some flexible number of low-skill Green Cards in the future in light of the needs of the U.S. economy.



Splitting semantic hairs isn't going to get you very far.  "It's not an amnesty because it's not without cost.  Look, we're smacking them on the wrist!  Naughty, naughty illegals!" is not impressive.  If your ass isn't going back home, applying legally, and waiting behind everyone else who DIDN'T violate our laws, it's amnesty, whether it meets the narrow dictionary definition or not.

We'll be happy to come up with another name for it, if it bothers you that much, but the bottom line is that it's not good enough, and not acceptable.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #11. AMERICANS DON'T SUPPORT IMMIGRATION REFORM.
> 
> Not true. When Americans are asked the question, "Do you support a legalization program that would allow those in the U.S. illegally to obtain legal status if they could meet the following requirements: a strong work history, no serious criminal convictions, no deportations, learn some English, pay all back taxes, pay a fine and go to the back of the immigration line," numerous polls have shown that 60 to 70% of likely voters are in favor of such a solution to our immigration situation.



This is a bait-and-switch.  Just because a growing majority of Americans insist on immigration reform doesn't mean they agree with YOUR idea of immigration reform, let alone the pitiful garbage Congress and the President keep coming up with.  There's more than one type of "reform".

You DO realize that a lot of Americans interpret "go to the back of the line" to mean "go home and apply from there like they were supposed to", right?  After all, getting to stay here and enjoy the bennies of living in the US while you wait kinda looks like line-hopping to ME.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #12. DENYING ILLEGAL ALIENS DRIVER'S LICENSES WILL HELP SOLVE THE IMMIGRATION PROBLEM.
> 
> That's crazy. The overwhelming reason why the undocumented are here is to work. Almost all workers in America need to drive to get to work. Workers, especially farm workers, typically must travel long distances to get to and from work. From the point of view of the public safety of U.S. citizens, it is much better if everyone driving on the highways has completed a driver's course and has qualified for a driver's license.



_Pobrecito._  My heart still isn't bleeding.  Given that we don't WANT their illegal butts here working, "If we don't give them licenses, they won't be able to work" isn't going to be a very persuasive argument.  Gee, you think if we make it nigh-impossible for them to ilegally obtain work here, they might give up and go home?  

And hey, guess what?  Giving them licenses doesn't do a whole hell of a lot to improve safety.  You clearly haven't seen people driving on LA freeways recently, and most of them actually DO have licenses.

Furthermore, if employers are already breaking the law by hiring illegals, what in the hell makes you think they're suddenly all law-conscious when it comes to requiring them to have licenses?  I hate to break it to you, but most illegals aren't bothering to get licenses even when they CAN.  Any number of reports regarding State Police accident reports shows us this.  I can link you to them, or any number of news reports, on this, if you like (I'm not now, because this is already insanely long).



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #13. IF EVERY EMPLOYER WAS REQUIRED TO VERIFY THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER OF EVERY EMPLOYEE, WE COULD SOLVE OUR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION SITUATION.
> 
> Well, yes, sort of. A mandatory social security verification system is a good idea but only if there is an earned legalization program put in place simultaneously. Under current circumstances, requiring social security verification without earned legalization would create chaos in many sectors of the U.S. economy. It is estimated that 50-60% of farm workers are undocumented and the percentage of undocumented workers in many other low-skill, minimum-wage, no benefits jobs-such as dishwashers, gardeners, dairy workers, janitors, chambermaids-is also very high.



Sorry, but the possibility that it might make life hard for some people to enforce the law doesn't move me, and it CERTAINLY doesn't convince me that we need to give amnesty to people who have flouted our laws.

I have no idea who gave you this estimate of 5060% of farm workers, and would very much like you to tell me.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #14. A LAW LIKE THE NEW LAW IN ARIZONA WOULD SOLVE OUR IMMIGRATION SITUATION.
> 
> No way. The Arizona law is an over reaction and can best be compared to how we over reacted in 1942 when the U.S. government placed all west coast Japanese in internment camps. Thirty percent of Arizona's citizens-over 2 million people-are Hispanic and legal. The Arizona law is vague and invites discrimination against them.



Sorry, Charlie, but no soap.  SB 1070 does not even VAGUELY invite discrimination against our legal Hispanic residents, unless you assume that we're all a bunch of bigots in Arizona, and I resent deeply the discrimination inherent in your implying that.



CryingKoala said:


> MYTH #15. THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE UPSET ABOUT THE CURRENT IMMIGRATION SITUATION ARE RACISTS.
> 
> Not even close. Of course, some racism does exist in this debate. But, for the most part, the American public is frustrated and angry that our elected officials prefer to play "gotcha" politics with this difficult and controversial issue rather than addressing it in a mature, common sense manner. Most Americans recognize that most of the people here illegally are working hard at low-end jobs and they believe the politicians should find some rational solution to this very contentious matter.
> 
> The solution to our immigration dilemma will only come from comprehensive immigration reform. That reform must include 4 parts: 1) Secure the southern border, 2) Allow those here to apply for earned legalization, 3) Require all employers to verify the immigration status of their employees, and 4) Allow some flexible number of low-skill Green Cards in the future in light of the needs of the U.S. economy.



Nice of you to recognize that people can have legitimate problems with having our nation invaded without it making them bigots.


----------



## CryingKoala (Aug 5, 2011)

*Our best estimates are that, in the agriculture industry (the one with the highest number of illegals employed), they still only make up 25% of the workforce. Which means the other 75% are legal residents. Obviously, Americans DO want those jobs, and all the ones in which they make up an even higher percentage of workers than the illegals do.*

If you insist on proof of my argument, I will have to ask the same of yours. 
*
I think the ACTUAL complaint is that they take more out than they put in, which is quite true.*

Quoting FAIR means nothing. FAIR is a nativist organization. They are against ALL immigration and are a known hate group with links to racist and antisemitic organizations
*
Furthermore, I would have to say that ANY crime by illegal immigrants is "disproportionate", simply because they shouldn't be here at all, let alone here breaking the law. Call me obsessively single-minded, but it's always going to come back to that for me. Whatever it is they're doing while there here is a problem, because they shouldn't be here. Period. End of story.*

A typical argument for people who don't know how our immigration laws actually work. They are not criminal laws and not subject to the criminal legal system. They have their own courts, burdens of proof and procedures which operate separately from criminal law. THEY ARE NOT EQUIVALENT. 

An immigration code violation is not a criminal violation. Crimes can't be waived by the governing body but immigration code violations can be. [Family hardship waiver] A criminal actually has more rights and representation in court than an immigration violator does. 

The anti-immigration argument depends on being as ignorant about immigration laws as possible. You have to use bad analogy with criminal laws because it makes it easier to ignore the actual facts of the situation. . 

*Glad to hear it, but those second-generation Mexicans are, likely as not, American citizens (aka "anchor babies"). As such, they're a completely different part of the illegal alien problem from the actual illegals who come here as adults and DON'T assimilate.*

What you call "anchor babies" are referred to under our Constitution as US CITIZENS with the same rights and privileges you have. Any attempt to upend citizenship by birth would result in creating a bigger problem than whatever you think they cause. The attempts to deal with "anchor babies" have been unconstitutional, short sighted and frankly dangerous to our nation.  

*"We can't stop them, so fuck it, let's just give up" is ALSO an argument unlikely to gain much traction around here.*

Well 40 years of doing the same thing has yielded no results. In fact not one measure made to make the lives of illegal aliens miserable here has done jackshit to alleviate the situation. 

Maybe something different needs to be tried. 

*Nice of you to recognize that people can have legitimate problems with having our nation invaded without it making them bigots. *

Depends on the argument you are using. To claim bigotry has little to do with anti-illegal alien rhetoric is an outright lie. 

Its a position which DEPENDS on having little to no knowledge as to how our immigration laws function. 

How come you never see ICE, CIS or immigration lawyers support such a position? Because they know how the system really works and how some of the arguments used are ignorant bullshit.


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## Patrick2 (Aug 5, 2011)

SFC Ollie said:


> Patrick2 said:
> 
> 
> > SFC Ollie said:
> ...



Race card toss - the infamous last refuge for libs who aren't able to back their positions with facts and arguments.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 5, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> SFC Ollie said:
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> > Patrick2 said:
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Wait a minute............................

Did someone just accuse me of being a Lib?

And mentioning that you will learn who the racists are among other things is not tossing the race card.

You are a fucking idiot.

Learn who you are talking to. I have been accused of being far right, but never ever have I been confused with a liberal. Ask anyone


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## Patrick2 (Aug 5, 2011)

CryingKoala said:


> EXPLODING MYTHS ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS
> 
> The immigration debate is raging in America. There are an estimated 11 million illegal aliens in the U.S. and the proposals regarding what to do about them run the entire spectrum from "throw them all out" to "give them all Green Cards".
> 
> ...



The claim they don't take american jobs is in fact a standard leftwing myth.  Americans wouldn't take the jos *AT THE BLACK MARKET WAGES* scofflaw employers know they can get away with in exploiting illegal aliens.  If the illegal aliens were gone, wages would rise until americans would take the jobs, or automated equipment would be invented to replace them.



> MYTH #2. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T PAY TAXES
> 
> Not True. The majority of illegal aliens pay the exact same taxes you and I pay. Most illegal aliens work for employers who don't know they are illegal or, possibly suspect they may be illegal, but don't want to know for sure.
> 
> As a result, the typical employer of an undocumented worker deducts all the federal income and other taxes from all his employees - legal and illegal alike.



Baloney - most illegal aliens are paid "under the table" in cash, with no paperwork, no deductions, no nothing.  Come out here and I'll SHOW YOU.  The children of illegal aliens are the vast majority of the students in places like Los Angeles county, yet few pay property taxes which support the schools and other municipal services.  And the claim that employers don't know is a laugh - they hire people who can speak about three words of english, and have not the slightest indication that they are US citizens.  



> MYTH #3. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T LEARN ENGLISH OR ASSIMILATE.
> 
> Yes and No. The typical Mexican who grew up in Mexico attended school there for only 3 to 6 years. As a result, most of the older Mexicans who are here only speak their native language at a basic level. As a result, it is tremendously difficult for many of those adults to learn fluent English.



More nonsense from you.  In the southwest, the presence of illegals is so overwhelming, and catered to by so many institutions that there is no need for them to assimilate - there are spanish speaking TV channels, dozens of spanish speaking radio stations, spanish speaking persons at commercial institutions who want to profit fom the invasion like banks, almost all phone trees have a spanish option, there are branches of mexican grocery chains here with mexican products just as if it were mexico, the language at church services in catholic churches in LA is in spanish, the mayor gives speeches in spanish - on and on and on.  The issue here is whether "anglos" will be able to assimilate to their environment when the "reconquista" is completed.



> The children of those older immigrants, however, go to school in the U.S., are immersed in English-speaking American culture and virtually all speak English. Those second-generation Mexicans speak English and assimilate into U.S. culture the same way the Irish, Italians, Japanese and every other group of new immigrants have.



Besides mexicans near zero rate of assimilation, the difference is the Irish, Italians, Japanese came here *LEGALLY*.



> MYTH #4. ILLEGAL ALIENS DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO THE U.S. ECONOMY; THEY JUST COME HERE TO GET ON WELFARE.
> 
> Not even close. Illegal aliens contribute immensely to the U.S. economy. They work hard and perform the essential jobs that are vital to keeping the U.S. economy moving forward. They pay taxes and consume goods-from cars and gas to groceries and houses - and buy services which, in turn, benefits those U.S. citizens selling those goods and services.



More BS.  Once again, COME HERE, and for just one example, I'll walk you around to the ERs, and you'll see them loaded up with illegal aliens.  Then I'll have you ask the admitting nurse how many don't pay.  They come for routine medical services, making US citiziens who come with real emergencies wait for hours.  The illegals have bankrupted several southern california ERs, one entire hospital, and every day push up the costs of health care insurance premiums, since their unpaid bills are cost-shifted onto paying customers bills.



> As for illegal aliens signing up for welfare, U.S. law strictly prohibits those here illegally from obtaining welfare, food stamps or any other type of public assistance.



Whoever wrote that is just being evasive.  One thing that happens is eight and a half month pregnant women come here and give birth to their "anchor baby"  (for free of course).  Then as the guardian of a "US citizen", they aren't expelled and are eligible for a whole raft of welfare and other services.



> MYTH #5. ILLEGAL ALIENS CAN AND SHOULD APPLY TO LEGALLY COME IN TO WORK IN THE U.S.
> 
> Great idea, except it just happens to be impossible. The present system for employment-based immigration allows only 5,000 low-skill Green Cards per year for the entire United States.



Assinine logic - if what you want to do is illegal, nobody can blame you for doing it illegally???  The US has millions of unemployed citizens who can and should be doing the work.




> The solution to our immigration dilemma will only come from comprehensive immigration reform. That reform must include 4 parts: 1) Secure the southern border, 2) Allow those here to apply for earned legalization, 3) Require all employers to verify the immigration status of their employees, and 4) Allow some flexible number of low-skill Green Cards in the future in light of the needs of the U.S. economy.



No, the solution is to send people back where they belong.  This involves changing the law so that employers have an affirmative duty to determine if employees are illegals.  Penalties need to be raised so scofflaw employers can get six months in jail and a $100,000 fine, with penalties rising for repeat offenses.  Within in a year, the illegals and all the problems they cause would be gone.  No other country in the world would tolerate an invasion of 20 million illegals.



> MYTH #6. ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR A DISPROPORTIONATE PERCENTAGE OF CRIME.
> 
> Not true. Numerous reputable studies have shown that the problem of crime in the United States is not caused or even aggravated by immigrants, regardless of their legal status. Over the past few years, when someone is arrested the first question they are asked by the police after their name and address is, "Where were you born?" If the answer to that question is not "U.S.A." the Border Patrol is automatically contacted and the person, if undocumented, is immediately placed into the deportation process. As a result, undocumented individuals have a very high incentive to not break the law.



Simply false - illegal aliens make up 25% of California's gigantic prison population.  Illegals commit murders here, and if they can get away across the mexican border, they're home free because mexico won't extradite them.  Same thing if they cause auto accidents (they rarely have auto insurance).



> MYTH #7. ILLEGAL ALIENS ABUSE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
> 
> Not so. The general rule is that those who are here in undocumented status are not entitled to any taxpayer funded health care. The exception to that rule is that those here illegally can get emergency medical treatment.  /QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Baruch Menachem (Aug 5, 2011)

This thread has been such a giggle. SFCOllie, Political Chick and Cecile are liberals.    Rdean can't provide 6% of the comedy of this guy.


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## Patrick2 (Aug 5, 2011)

SFC Ollie said:


> And mentioning that you will learn who the racists are among other things is not tossing the race card.



Can anyone translate the above into English so I can understand what the Colonel intended to say?


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 5, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > And mentioning that you will learn who the racists are among other things is not tossing the race card.
> ...



If you can't understand it then don't sweat it. It seems as though there is much that you have difficulty understanding. But you'll learn, maybe..........


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 5, 2011)

Baruch Menachem said:


> This thread has been such a giggle. SFCOllie, Political Chick and Cecile are liberals.    Rdean can't provide 6% of the comedy of this guy.



I know, isn't that hilarious........


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## Patrick2 (Aug 5, 2011)

SFC Ollie said:


> Patrick2 said:
> 
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> > SFC Ollie said:
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Like WHAT??   Really, SPEAK UP.  And speak English.  You've already done the race card, remember.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 5, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> SFC Ollie said:
> 
> 
> > Patrick2 said:
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Here's English for you. 

We probably agree on many subjects. However, just because we share *some* beliefs doesn't mean I like you. Nor does it mean that you are not an idiot. Now please understand that I do not treat stupidity well. I suggested to you once that you should shut the fuck up. I will suggest the same again. And allow me to reiterate, You are truly a stupid idiot.



Personally I think you may be a sock, and I have some ideas as to whose..........But time will tell..........


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## Patrick2 (Aug 5, 2011)

SFC Ollie said:


> Patrick2 said:
> 
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> > SFC Ollie said:
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OK, the Colonel has raised the white flag, and without even a fight.  Your surrender is accepted, and it's a dishonorable surrender.


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## SFC Ollie (Aug 5, 2011)

Patrick2 said:


> SFC Ollie said:
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That's Sergeant to you dumb ass. And accept the negative for the stupidity.


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## C_Clayton_Jones (Aug 5, 2011)

> We probably agree on many subjects.



This should give you considerable pause.


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## Patrick2 (Aug 5, 2011)

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> > We probably agree on many subjects.
> 
> 
> 
> This should give you considerable pause.



Yo, Mr. AA - have you figured out how to conjugate the "to be" verb yet?


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## CryingKoala (Aug 8, 2011)

*The claim they don't take american jobs is in fact a standard leftwing myth. Americans wouldn't take the jos AT THE BLACK MARKET WAGES scofflaw employers know they can get away with in exploiting illegal aliens. If the illegal aliens were gone, wages would rise until americans would take the jobs, or automated equipment would be invented to replace them.*

Bullshit, Nobody has ever been paying living wages for most of the kind of agricultural or service related work we have illegals doing. The jobs which could be outsourced, would be outsourced. 
*
Baloney - most illegal aliens are paid "under the table" in cash, with no paperwork, no deductions, no nothing. Come out here and I'll SHOW YOU. The children of illegal aliens are the vast majority of the students in places like Los Angeles county, yet few pay property taxes which support the schools and other municipal services. And the claim that employers don't know is a laugh - they hire people who can speak about three words of english, and have not the slightest indication that they are US citizens. *

Few LA residents are paying property taxes to support urban schools. The poor and working class citizens don't own their homes for the most part. They do pay sales taxes  

*
More nonsense from you. In the southwest, the presence of illegals is so overwhelming, and catered to by so many institutions that there is no need for them to assimilate - there are spanish speaking TV channels, dozens of spanish speaking radio stations, spanish speaking persons at commercial institutions who want to profit fom the invasion like banks, almost all phone trees have a spanish option, there are branches of mexican grocery chains here with mexican products just as if it were mexico, the language at church services in catholic churches in LA is in spanish, the mayor gives speeches in spanish - on and on and on. The issue here is whether "anglos" will be able to assimilate to their environment when the "reconquista" is completed.*

Now your bigoted side is showing. When in doubt appeal to irrational fears of being overwhelmed by the immigrant horde. The same arguments they were making when people were coming off the boats at Ellis Island. Any immigrant community has this. I can get the same impression with Russian speakers in Brighton Beach. The difference is the overwhelming majority of them are here legally. 
*
Besides mexicans near zero rate of assimilation, the difference is the Irish, Italians, Japanese came here LEGALLY.*

Bigoted bullshit again. 2nd Generation immigrants of all types tend to be fluent English speakers. 
*
Once again, COME HERE, and for just one example, I'll walk you around to the ERs, and you'll see them loaded up with illegal aliens. *

And you can tell between a legal alien and illegal on sight or do you just assume that they are illegal because they are poor and hispanic? 

*Simply false - illegal aliens make up 25% of California's gigantic prison population. Illegals commit murders here, and if they can get away across the mexican border, they're home free because mexico won't extradite them. Same thing if they cause auto accidents (they rarely have auto insurance).
*

False, Hispanics make up the gigantic prison population. You just assume they are all illegal. Of course the flipside is they aren't even the majority of those incarcerated despite being a sizable chunk of the population. 
*
No, the solution is to send people back where they belong. *

40 years of trying to do that has produced zero results. I guess you like how things already are. 

Talk about the race card all you want. But its a stupid argument. Complaining about complaints of bigotry doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just you don't want to hear them. Maybe its just a little too uncomfortable for some to recognize such things in public.


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## Patrick2 (Aug 8, 2011)

CryingKoala said:


> *The claim they don't take american jobs is in fact a standard leftwing myth. Americans wouldn't take the jos AT THE BLACK MARKET WAGES scofflaw employers know they can get away with in exploiting illegal aliens. If the illegal aliens were gone, wages would rise until americans would take the jobs, or automated equipment would be invented to replace them.*
> 
> Bullshit, Nobody has ever been paying living wages for most of the kind of agricultural or service related work we have illegals doing. The jobs which could be outsourced, would be outsourced.



Assbackwards logic from you.  Nobody has been paying "living wages" *because they have illegal aliens to exploit.*   Leftwingers who support the invasion want you to believe that without the invaders, all food would just rot in the fields, and we'd all starve to death. 



> Baloney - most illegal aliens are paid "under the table" in cash, with no paperwork, no deductions, no nothing. Come out here and I'll SHOW YOU. The children of illegal aliens are the vast majority of the students in places like Los Angeles county, yet few pay property taxes which support the schools and other municipal services. And the claim that employers don't know is a laugh - they hire people who can speak about three words of english, and have not the slightest indication that they are US citizens. [/B]
> 
> Few LA residents are paying property taxes to support urban schools. The poor and working class citizens don't own their homes for the most part. They do pay sales taxes



Without even getting into the the correctness of your claim, the fact remains that education is one of the social services illegal aliens loot.  People of this country want to pay for the education of the poor of *>>US Citizens<<, *but we're going bankrupt paying for the poor of other countries.



> *
> More nonsense from you. In the southwest, the presence of illegals is so overwhelming, and catered to by so many institutions that there is no need for them to assimilate - there are spanish speaking TV channels, dozens of spanish speaking radio stations, spanish speaking persons at commercial institutions who want to profit fom the invasion like banks, almost all phone trees have a spanish option, there are branches of mexican grocery chains here with mexican products just as if it were mexico, the language at church services in catholic churches in LA is in spanish, the mayor gives speeches in spanish - on and on and on. The issue here is whether "anglos" will be able to assimilate to their environment when the "reconquista" is completed.*
> 
> Now your bigoted side is showing.



Race card bullshit.



> When in doubt appeal to irrational fears of being overwhelmed by the immigrant horde.



Ooooooooo - here it comes - the assinine comparison with 19th century jews/italians/irish. 



> The same arguments they were making when people were coming off the boats at Ellis Island. Any immigrant community has this. I can get the same impression with Russian speakers in Brighton Beach. The difference is the overwhelming majority of them are here legally.



Only a historically ignorant MORON would serve up this old howler, especially after it's been crushed so many times. Those immigrants were *LEGAL*.  *They followed the rules.*  The vast majority of them wanted nothing more than to become genuine americans in the deepest sense of the word, instead of the extremely low assimilation rate of even LEGAL hispanics.  They weren't trying to effect a reconquista for say, Germany.  They learned the language as fast as possible, they didn't sit here for 30 years and not learn a word of english.  They didn't have instant electronic communications back to the old country.  They weren't an hour away from the old country by jet.  The overwhelming majority didn't have dual citizenship with the old country.  They didn't go to public schools full of bilingual teachers just to cater to them.  they had to FULLY commit to assimilating with the country they adopted, as opposed to the southwest, where americans have to assimilate with the hispanics.  The northeast of the US didn't end up a virtual province of germany.  The comparison is fatuous at best.




> vOnce again, COME HERE, and for just one example, I'll walk you around to the ERs, and you'll see them loaded up with illegal aliens. [/B]
> 
> And you can tell between a legal alien and illegal on sight or do you just assume that they are illegal because they are poor and hispanic?



Anyone >>HERE<< can tell, and we laugh at the idiots in places like wisconsin who are brainwashed into thinking we can't. 



> *Simply false - illegal aliens make up 25% of California's gigantic prison population. Illegals commit murders here, and if they can get away across the mexican border, they're home free because mexico won't extradite them. Same thing if they cause auto accidents (they rarely have auto insurance).
> *
> 
> False, Hispanics make up the gigantic prison population. You just assume they are all illegal.  No, the solution is to send people back where they belong. [/B]



Bullshit - you don't know what you're talking about - read up.  Those are the stats, "assumptions" are not involved. You have no fucking clue - you're just robotically repeating all the bullshit on this issue served up by the lib media for idiots who don't live in the southwest.


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