# Putin's Answer To Obama



## The T

Putin gets permission to use Russian military in Ukraine | Fox News

 Russian President Vladimir Putin received permission Saturday from parliament to mobilize the country's military in Ukraine.
 Putin says the move is needed to protect ethnic Russians and the personnel of a Russian military base in Ukraine's strategic region of Crimea. The request comes a day after President Obama warned Moscow that "there will be costs" if it intervenes militarily in Ukraine.
 Putin move appears to formalize what Ukrainian officials described as an ongoing deployment of Russian troops in the strategic region of Crimea. His motion loosely refers to the "territory of Ukraine" rather than specifically to Crimea, raising the possibility that Moscow could use military force in other Russian-speaking provinces in eastern and southern Ukraine where many oppose the new authorities in Kiev.


----------



## The T

As Obama made a statement yesterday regarding the turmoil in the Ukraine...Putin has upped the ante with his answer...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/general-global-topics/342907-putin-s-answer-to-obama.html


----------



## Katzndogz

President Putin didn't answer obama.  He ignored obama.


----------



## Katzndogz

President Putin didn't answer obama.  He ignored obama.  obama is no longer a player.


----------



## The T

Katzndogz said:


> President Putin didn't answer obama. He ignored obama.


Sometimes ignoring IS an answer.


----------



## Sallow

So you guys are with Putin on this.

Figures.


----------



## The T

Katzndogz said:


> President Putin didn't answer obama. He ignored obama. obama is no longer a player.


But the ignorance IS an answer, is it not?


----------



## Geaux4it

Putin stuck a thumb in Obammys eye

-Geaux


----------



## Sallow

Glad to see the Putinbots floating his propaganda.

Good stuff.


----------



## R.D.

Today Sarah Palin wrote on Facebook &#8211; &#8220;I Told You So.&#8221;


----------



## Katzndogz

The T said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> President Putin didn't answer obama. He ignored obama. obama is no longer a player.
> 
> 
> 
> But the ignorance IS an answer, is it not?
Click to expand...


Ultimately yes it is.  The Russian leadership has been refusing to take phone calls from their American counterparts.


----------



## The T

Katzndogz said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> President Putin didn't answer obama. He ignored obama. obama is no longer a player.
> 
> 
> 
> But the ignorance IS an answer, is it not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ultimately yes it is. The Russian leadership has been refusing to take phone calls from their American counterparts.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I have to wonder how Obama and Hagel are going to handle this one? I hope the Congress is also watching as they consider cutting the Military to the bone...


----------



## ScreamingEagle

Putin is not afraid of Obama....once Ukraine is back under control other states will probably fall as well....


----------



## Sallow

The Conservative Anthem!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A71wdsTqkfM]Russian National Anthem - YouTube[/ame]

Your team is rocking Chimera!


----------



## The T

ScreamingEagle said:


> Putin is not afraid of Obama....once Ukraine is back under control other states will probably fall as well....


Reassembly of the Former Soviet Satellites?


----------



## KNB

Why do any of you pretend to care about Ukrainians?


----------



## longknife

A slight aside - the Ukraine was ONCE PART OF RUSSIA!!! Russia granted it a separate state sometime in the 50s -- I think. They still have troops in Crimea.


----------



## Sallow

KNB said:


> Why do any of you pretend to care about Ukrainians?



Naw.

They don't even care about Americans.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PepQF7G-It0]Crowd Yells Let Him Die - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## The T

KNB said:


> Why do any of you pretend to care about Ukrainians?


Same as I _pretend _to care about Liberty ?

 You have a lot to learn about tyranny son.


----------



## Roudy

Putin knows Obama is a nothing but an empty suit and a puppet and all meaningless words. He'll do whatever he feels like, knowing Obama won't do jackshit about it. 

Thats because Obama = Jimmy Carter on steroids.

We will be living in a different country and world by the time this communist bullshit artist America hater steps down from office in 2016. God help us all.


----------



## Sallow

Russia invaded Georgia while Bush was President.

Didn't see any Liberals siding with Putin or Russia back then.

Gotta love you guys.


----------



## Katzndogz

KNB said:


> Why do any of you pretend to care about Ukrainians?



It's more like a reaction of horror that democrats are so willing to tell the Ukrainians that they aren't Russian (when they believe they are) and the US will make SURE that Ukrainians don't become Russians.

This is about trade agreements.   It's about having a trade agreement with Russia or the EU.  To induce the independent Ukraine to sign a trade agreement with Russia.  President Putin sweetened the pot with a 15 billion dollar loan.  That part of the Ukraine that would rather have had the trade agreement with the EU used it as an excuse to revolt.  Americans don't pay attention to who the US government signs a trade agreement with.  Other countries do.


----------



## The T

Roudy said:


> Putin knows Obama is a nothing but an empty suit and a puppet and all meaningless words. He'll do whatever he feels like, knowing Obama won't do jackshit about it.
> 
> Thats because Obama = Jimmy Carter on steroids.
> 
> We will be living in a different country and world by the time this communist bullshit artist America hater steps down from office in 2016. God help us all.


Complete failure on steroids. Let us see if the LINE he drew last night has any teeth...


----------



## Katzndogz

Sallow said:


> Russia invaded Georgia while Bush was President.
> 
> Didn't see any Liberals siding with Putin or Russia back then.
> 
> Gotta love you guys.



At least Georgia was unified and asked for help.  Because President Bush was president and not a pansy, Russia backed off.   Ukraine is NOT Georgia.  It is NOT unified.  Half the people believe they are Russian.  They would rather have their independence  and not be subject to the EU.  Now we have obama who will do nothing and everyone knows it.  Nor should he do anything.   This controversy exists entirely within Ukraine and involves Russia and the EU.   It has nothing to do with the US.


----------



## hangover

The Russians back their president, which is more than the republicans in the U.S. can say. Obama must measure his words because he knows the right wingers won't back him up no matter what he says. The cons in America have destroyed the credibility and integrity of this country. After Shrub's invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. has no right to tell Russia they must "respect" the rights of Ukraine for self determination. Russia also knows the U.S. is a paper tiger, all talk. If we couldn't win in a stone age society like Iraq, the Russians aren't going to be shaking in their boots from our threats. It would be wise to remember what the Russians did to the Nazis.
The cons are already hurling insults at Putin, like they're ready to take him on. Are you ready for another war that will cost more than ten times what Iraq cost? Well so much for cutting spending.


----------



## mudwhistle

All Obama is going to do is talk.

Putin knows this.

This is what happens when you exude weakness. 

Obama can now go back to gutting the military.


BTW, I don't think this is any of our business. We shouldn't even say anything public about it. I'd give Putin a call, ask him what his intentions are, and leave it at that.


----------



## Roudy

Isn't it great that we are back to Jimmy Carter's paper tiger days where every dictator and pariah nation pokes its finger into our eye?


----------



## Roudy

The T said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin knows Obama is a nothing but an empty suit and a puppet and all meaningless words. He'll do whatever he feels like, knowing Obama won't do jackshit about it.
> 
> Thats because Obama = Jimmy Carter on steroids.
> 
> We will be living in a different country and world by the time this communist bullshit artist America hater steps down from office in 2016. God help us all.
> 
> 
> 
> Complete failure on steroids. Let us see if the LINE he drew last night has any teeth...
Click to expand...

The con artist didn't draw a line his time. LOL. He basically gave the Russians the green light to do as they please.


----------



## Geaux4it

The Putin-Obama risk analysis

-Geaux


----------



## The T

Roudy said:


> The T said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin knows Obama is a nothing but an empty suit and a puppet and all meaningless words. He'll do whatever he feels like, knowing Obama won't do jackshit about it.
> 
> Thats because Obama = Jimmy Carter on steroids.
> 
> We will be living in a different country and world by the time this communist bullshit artist America hater steps down from office in 2016. God help us all.
> 
> 
> 
> Complete failure on steroids. Let us see if the LINE he drew last night has any teeth...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The con artist didn't draw a line his time. LOL. He basically gave the Russians the green light to do as they please.
Click to expand...

Pretty much like Syria...Right?


----------



## Sallow

Katzndogz said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia invaded Georgia while Bush was President.
> 
> Didn't see any Liberals siding with Putin or Russia back then.
> 
> Gotta love you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *At least Georgia was unified and asked for help.  Because President Bush was president and not a pansy, Russia backed off.*   Ukraine is NOT Georgia.  It is NOT unified.  Half the people believe they are Russian.  They would rather have their independence  and not be subject to the EU.  Now we have obama who will do nothing and everyone knows it.  Nor should he do anything.   This controversy exists entirely within Ukraine and involves Russia and the EU.   It has nothing to do with the US.
Click to expand...




They didn't "back off" because of Bush.


----------



## The T

mudwhistle said:


> All Obama is going to do is talk.
> 
> Putin knows this.
> 
> This is what happens when you exude weakness.
> 
> Obama can now go back to gutting the military.
> 
> 
> BTW, I don't think this is any of our business. We shouldn't even say anything public about it. I'd give Putin a call, ask him what his* intentions* are, and leave it at that.


Just as Obama stopped missle defense for Eastern Europe...INTENT indeed...


----------



## Sallow

Geaux4it said:


> The Putin-Obama risk analysis
> 
> -Geaux



Dah Comrade.

You just outed yourself as a Putinbot.

Oh wait..

&#1042;&#1099; &#1087;&#1088;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1086; outed &#1089;&#1077;&#1073;&#1103; &#1082;&#1072;&#1082; Putinbot


----------



## Papageorgio

Sallow said:


> Russia invaded Georgia while Bush was President.
> 
> Didn't see any Liberals siding with Putin or Russia back then.
> 
> Gotta love you guys.


y

No one is siding with the Commie, he is a disgusting human being with lots of blood on his hands, killing his own people. 

The issue is Putin, has no respect for Obama and his administration. He has no respect for the United States of America and Obama doesn't have a clue, he is weak and our enemies and allies know it.


----------



## ScreamingEagle

Obama is not providing western leadership for freedom and democracy as he should......therefore you have a commie dictator dealing with Germany, Britain, and the EU separately...while the weakling sits on the sidelines taking selfies at Happy Hour...

the marxist muslim POS is passively supporting communism imo....


----------



## Nutz

So the Russians approved sending troops to the Ukraine.  Considering Obama is President...I say Russia has already won.  We know Europe won't step up and we know the UK won't join the US in enforcing the treaty they already signed.  Putin has one upped the US with Snowden, Syria, and Georgia...Im afraid the US has lost all respect and power...the only thing to fear militarily are drones...and they aren't gonna work against Russia. 

Russian upper house approves use of military force in Ukraine - CNN.com


----------



## Silhouette

Nutz said:


> So the Russians approved sending troops to the Ukraine.  Considering Obama is President...I say Russia has already won.  We know Europe won't step up and we know the UK won't join the US in enforcing the treaty they already signed.  Putin has one upped the US with Snowden, Syria, and Georgia...Im afraid the US has lost all respect and power...the only thing to fear militarily are drones...and they aren't gonna work against Russia.
> 
> Russian upper house approves use of military force in Ukraine - CNN.com



The Ukraine is like Texas, always seceding, rejoining, seceding, at least in their minds.  It's big, rowdy and always thinking of itself as independent when really it couldn't stand on its own two legs for 6 months if it ever really actually had all governance and support withdrawn from it.  It's neighbor to the north would always have a bigger military and it's "sovereignty" would be merely on paper, an idea instead of a factual reality.  That's true with any small rowdy country.  Everyone knows the Ukraine is part of Russia.  I was shocked recently to learn it was thinking of itself as independent of Russia.   In a way, the Ukrainians should be thanking the Russians because if left on their own, "you know who" would swoop in and install a puppet government.  Then in no time they would have laws on their books requiring their kids to celebrate a pedophile and gay marriage.  And they'd have no viable healthcare to speak of, massive unsustainable debt...you know...all the goodies that go along with a "free society" that is amoral, without check and worshipping at the altar of greed and self at the expense even of their fellow countryman.  It's a fine line between patriotism and socialism.  Should we discard them?

The problem with y'all is that you think that "Mr. Gorbechev tear down that wall!" was something other than stage fluff, a ruse, a lure to believe that the USSR is anything but what it is.  It is now and always has been since the cold war, an idiological opponent to the US.  Actually, it's more like we are just old playground enemies where there's always egotistical simmering going on.

Of course Russia is invading the Ukraine.  If nothing else, it is a stage performance also.  One grand stage performance.  The only thing we should be worried about for Ukrainians after Russia reminds them they are still Russian, is if they have a nice warm place to live with a roof over their heads, enough food to eat, a little past time to enjoy and healthcare...

...hey..wait a minute...  Can Russia come over here next?...lol.. [just kidding..]


----------



## novasteve

I'm curious, if Putin wanted Alaska back, would Obama do anything about it?


----------



## novasteve

Funny, the strongest actions I'm hearing is possibly not going to the G8 summit in Sochi..

Do you think even the EU will pressure FIFA to take away the world cup from russia in 2018?


----------



## Silhouette

novasteve said:


> I'm curious, if Putin wanted Alaska back, would Obama do anything about it?



Of course.  But Alaska isn't the Ukraine.  The Ukraine was very recently part of Russia.  Alaska has been gone for what, a century now, more or less?


----------



## R.C. Christian

Putin has every right in his sphere of influence to intervene military.


----------



## novasteve

R.C. Christian said:


> Putin has every right in his sphere of influence to intervene military.



Not when it violates a treaty. Ukraine gave up its nukes on condition that Russian wouldn't do what it is doing.


----------



## Nutz

I say let Europe handle the Ukraine...the only problem is that there is a treaty signed by Russia, the UK, and the US.  Principle is involved here...treaties are meant to be kept.  Unilaterally breaking a treaty is pretty much an act of war.  Even if we bend over and give Russia the state of Crimea, we look weak AND it gives Russia too much influence in the Black Sea (I think).

The trade off should be Crimea for Russia backing off of Syria to maintain a balance of power.  Or, the US should, at the very least, increase aid to the rebels in Syria...of course, in the end we lose, because we all know any aid we give to the rebels in Syria will, at some point and time, end up as aid to Al Qaeda and the rest of the killer muslims who bblow up innocent women and children in the name of allah


----------



## Nutz

Silhouette said:


> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the Russians approved sending troops to the Ukraine.  Considering Obama is President...I say Russia has already won.  We know Europe won't step up and we know the UK won't join the US in enforcing the treaty they already signed.  Putin has one upped the US with Snowden, Syria, and Georgia...Im afraid the US has lost all respect and power...the only thing to fear militarily are drones...and they aren't gonna work against Russia.
> 
> Russian upper house approves use of military force in Ukraine - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukraine is like Texas, always seceding, rejoining, seceding, at least in their minds.  It's big, rowdy and always thinking of itself as independent when really it couldn't stand on its own two legs for 6 months if it ever really actually had all governance and support withdrawn from it.  It's neighbor to the north would always have a bigger military and it's "sovereignty" would be merely on paper, an idea instead of a factual reality.  That's true with any small rowdy country.  Everyone knows the Ukraine is part of Russia.  I was shocked recently to learn it was thinking of itself as independent of Russia.   In a way, the Ukrainians should be thanking the Russians because if left on their own, "you know who" would swoop in and install a puppet government.  Then in no time they would have laws on their books requiring their kids to celebrate a pedophile and gay marriage.  And they'd have no viable healthcare to speak of, massive unsustainable debt...you know...all the goodies that go along with a "free society" that is amoral, without check and worshipping at the altar of greed and self at the expense even of their fellow countryman.  It's a fine line between patriotism and socialism.  Should we discard them?
> 
> The problem with y'all is that you think that "Mr. Gorbechev tear down that wall!" was something other than stage fluff, a ruse, a lure to believe that the USSR is anything but what it is.  It is now and always has been since the cold war, an idiological opponent to the US.  Actually, it's more like we are just old playground enemies where there's always egotistical simmering going on.
> 
> Of course Russia is invading the Ukraine.  If nothing else, it is a stage performance also.  One grand stage performance.  The only thing we should be worried about for Ukrainians after Russia reminds them they are still Russian, is if they have a nice warm place to live with a roof over their heads, enough food to eat, a little past time to enjoy and healthcare...
> 
> ...hey..wait a minute...  Can Russia come over here next?...lol.. [just kidding..]
Click to expand...


Were you alive during the cold war?  I think you are a little misguided if you think the cold war was nothing more than 'theater'


----------



## novasteve

Nutz said:


> I say let Europe handle the Ukraine...the only problem is that there is a treaty signed by Russia, the UK, and the US.  Principle is involved here...treaties are meant to be kept.  Unilaterally breaking a treaty is pretty much an act of war.  Even if we bend over and give Russia the state of Crimea, we look weak AND it gives Russia too much influence in the Black Sea (I think).
> 
> The trade off should be Crimea for Russia backing off of Syria to maintain a balance of power.  Or, the US should, at the very least, increase aid to the rebels in Syria...of course, in the end we lose, because we all know any aid we give to the rebels in Syria will, at some point and time, end up as aid to Al Qaeda and the rest of the killer muslims who bblow up innocent women and children in the name of allah



Unless the US comes out and supports Russia, this will only make the US look weak and hurt US interests around the world. China is thinking right now "we could take Taiwan, and nobody would do shit".


----------



## Silhouette

Nutz said:


> I say let Europe handle the Ukraine...the only problem is that there is a treaty signed by Russia, the UK, and the US.  Principle is involved here...treaties are meant to be kept.  Unilaterally breaking a treaty is pretty much an act of war.  Even if we bend over and give Russia the state of Crimea, we look weak AND it gives Russia too much influence in the Black Sea (I think).
> 
> The trade off should be Crimea for Russia backing off of Syria to maintain a balance of power.  Or, the US should, at the very least, increase aid to the rebels in Syria...of course, in the end we lose, because we all know any aid we give to the rebels in Syria will, at some point and time, end up as aid to Al Qaeda and the rest of the killer muslims who bblow up innocent women and children in the name of allah



Hmm... Would we sign a treaty with Russia if Texas wanted to secede as it often says it does, where we promised Russia we wouldn't take back Texas?

Yeah, no.  Why is it we expect Russia to rein in Manifest Destiny when we are galloping it all over the planet, even on their turf and home base?  We are so pompous, so arrogant, so completely smitten with our ideals of ourselves that we are utterly blind to the fact that Russians are humans and a superpower country just like we are.  If we wouldn't sign a treaty with Russia to respect Texas' sovereinty if they seceded, why would we expect them to adhere to a treaty to respect the Ukraine's sovereignty? 

And if we started doubling-down on using hydrolysis to run hydrogen cars and other types of renewable energy sources like geothermal or solar thermal steam and only used petrolium for plastics and big diesel engines to do the hauling, we could sustain with New World resources of oil and get clear the hell out of the ME.  Let the Russians and Chinese have the Sandbox.  And, have fun with that..   Without the American market and with the Russians and Chinese quickly following suit to keep their economies from hemorrhaging from maintaining military and political influence to keep that blackwater flowing to their countries, the Sandbox would be a non-player.


----------



## Nutz

Silhouette said:


> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I say let Europe handle the Ukraine...the only problem is that there is a treaty signed by Russia, the UK, and the US.  Principle is involved here...treaties are meant to be kept.  Unilaterally breaking a treaty is pretty much an act of war.  Even if we bend over and give Russia the state of Crimea, we look weak AND it gives Russia too much influence in the Black Sea (I think).
> 
> The trade off should be Crimea for Russia backing off of Syria to maintain a balance of power.  Or, the US should, at the very least, increase aid to the rebels in Syria...of course, in the end we lose, because we all know any aid we give to the rebels in Syria will, at some point and time, end up as aid to Al Qaeda and the rest of the killer muslims who bblow up innocent women and children in the name of allah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm... Would we sign a treaty with Russia if Texas wanted to secede as it often says it does, where we promised Russia we wouldn't take back Texas?
> 
> Yeah, no.  Why is it we expect Russia to rein in Manifest Destiny when we are galloping it all over the planet, even on their turf and home base?  We are so pompous, so arrogant, so completely smitten with our ideals of ourselves that we are utterly blind to the fact that Russians are humans and a superpower country just like we are.  If we wouldn't sign a treaty with Russia to respect Texas' sovereinty if they seceded, why would we expect them to adhere to a treaty to respect the Ukraine's sovereignty?
> 
> And if we started doubling-down on using hydrolysis to run hydrogen cars and other types of renewable energy sources like geothermal or solar thermal steam and only used petrolium for plastics and big diesel engines to do the hauling, we could sustain with New World resources of oil and get clear the hell out of the ME.  Let the Russians and Chinese have the Sandbox.  And, have fun with that..   Without the American market and with the Russians and Chinese quickly following suit to keep their economies from hemorrhaging from maintaining military and political influence to keep that blackwater flowing to their countries, the Sandbox would be a non-player.
Click to expand...

wtf are you talking about?


----------



## Richard-H

The U.S. & NATO should seriously beef up their forces in the eastern most NATO allies. That would send a strong message to Russia.


----------



## novasteve

I say european nations need to beef up their own militaries. They rely on us so they can have their glorious socialistic welfare states.


----------



## mudwhistle

ScreamingEagle said:


> Obama is not providing western leadership for freedom and democracy as he should......therefore you have a commie dictator dealing with Germany, Britain, and the EU separately...while the weakling sits on the sidelines taking selfies at Happy Hour...
> 
> the marxist muslim POS is passively supporting communism imo....



This exposes the flaw where our allies are concerned. 

Most of them cannot afford unilateral military action. They need logistical help from us. That's why Obama is trying to bankrupt us. He wants to put us in the same fiscal state.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

What happens between Russia and the Ukraine is between Russia and the Ukraine.  It's not our business.


----------



## Sallow

Papageorgio said:


> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia invaded Georgia while Bush was President.
> 
> Didn't see any Liberals siding with Putin or Russia back then.
> 
> Gotta love you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> No one is siding with the Commie, he is a disgusting human being with lots of blood on his hands, killing his own people.
> 
> The issue is Putin, has no respect for Obama and his administration. He has no respect for the United States of America and Obama doesn't have a clue, he is weak and our enemies and allies know it.
Click to expand...


So a Sociopathic, ex-KGB, Authoritarian has no "respect" for the Leader of the Free world.

Here's a NEWSFLASH.

Pooty-poot had zero "respect" for Bush as well.


----------



## Nutz

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> What happens between Russia and the Ukraine is between Russia and the Ukraine.  It's not our business.



eventhough the US and UK vowed to protect the Ukraine?


----------



## mudwhistle

Sallow said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia invaded Georgia while Bush was President.
> 
> Didn't see any Liberals siding with Putin or Russia back then.
> 
> Gotta love you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> No one is siding with the Commie, he is a disgusting human being with lots of blood on his hands, killing his own people.
> 
> The issue is Putin, has no respect for Obama and his administration. He has no respect for the United States of America and Obama doesn't have a clue, he is weak and our enemies and allies know it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So a Sociopathic, ex-KGB, Authoritarian has no "respect" for the Leader of the Free world.
> 
> Here's a NEWSFLASH.
> 
> Pooty-poot had zero "respect" for Bush as well.
Click to expand...


But he did fear him. Obama, not so much.


----------



## NoNukes

Sallow said:


> So you guys are with Putin on this.
> 
> Figures.



They love their Commie hero.


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy

Nutz said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happens between Russia and the Ukraine is between Russia and the Ukraine.  It's not our business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eventhough the US and UK vowed to protect the Ukraine?
Click to expand...


The Ukraine isn't a homogeneous mass. I'm sure there are plenty of Ukrainians who support Russian intervention, so what exactly would the US be protecting? Only their own interests, naturally.


----------



## Katzndogz

novasteve said:


> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin has every right in his sphere of influence to intervene military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not when it violates a treaty. Ukraine gave up its nukes on condition that Russian wouldn't do what it is doing.
Click to expand...


Ukraine was never a nuclear power.

Like it or not, 60% of the Ukranian population thinks of themselves as Russian.


----------



## Katzndogz

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happens between Russia and the Ukraine is between Russia and the Ukraine.  It's not our business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eventhough the US and UK vowed to protect the Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Ukraine isn't a homogeneous mass. I'm sure there are plenty of Ukrainians who support Russian intervention, so what exactly would the US be protecting? Only their own interests, naturally.
Click to expand...


We don't have any interests there.  The EU has some interests as a trading partner, but the US has zip in Ukraine.


----------



## Iceweasel

This could get interesting. The Russian Parliment asked Putin to recall their US ambassador. It could just be a in-your-face move to highlight the disregard of our administration. I doubt they think the US will actually do anything.


----------



## R.C. Christian

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> What happens between Russia and the Ukraine is between Russia and the Ukraine.  It's not our business.



Didn't you know that everyone's business is the business of the U.S. empire?


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy

Katzndogz said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> eventhough the US and UK vowed to protect the Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukraine isn't a homogeneous mass. I'm sure there are plenty of Ukrainians who support Russian intervention, so what exactly would the US be protecting? Only their own interests, naturally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't have any interests there.  The EU has some interests as a trading partner, but the US has zip in Ukraine.
Click to expand...


The US government has an interest in power politics, and that's what I was referring to.


----------



## Nutz

Kevin_Kennedy said:


> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happens between Russia and the Ukraine is between Russia and the Ukraine.  It's not our business.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eventhough the US and UK vowed to protect the Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Ukraine isn't a homogeneous mass. I'm sure there are plenty of Ukrainians who support Russian intervention, so what exactly would the US be protecting? Only their own interests, naturally.
Click to expand...


So treaties and promises don't matter?  The US isn't a homogeneous mass either...no nation is.  The Ukranian government has asked the US to help.  NATO, France, and the UK have all issued warnings to Putin.  The UN has issued statements against any Russian intervention and this is *quickly* turning into a world crisis.  

Are you saying we should appease Russia and Putin and just let them invade Ukraine?


----------



## ScreamingEagle




----------



## GHook93

Nutz said:


> So the Russians approved sending troops to the Ukraine.  Considering Obama is President...I say Russia has already won.  We know Europe won't step up and we know the UK won't join the US in enforcing the treaty they already signed.  Putin has one upped the US with Snowden, Syria, and Georgia...Im afraid the US has lost all respect and power...the only thing to fear militarily are drones...and they aren't gonna work against Russia.
> 
> Russian upper house approves use of military force in Ukraine - CNN.com



So what!!! It's there neck of the woods and what happens in Ukraine directly affects them. I honestly don't give a shit what goes on there or in the Balkans. Last time we meddled there and chose sides against Russia, we had another Islamic Based, AntiAmerican supporting, terrorist hotbed, mafesto style government of Kosovo. I hope Clinton and the Democrats realize that there are many American hating terrorist that are festering and growing in that country. The Russian were RIGHT to support the Serbs and we should have also. But I digress.

We don't want Russia messing around in Cuba, Mexico or Central/South America, but in the Balkans and Eastern Europe? That is their neighborhood and it's a rough one to say the least. Let them police it.

I personally would rather have Russia policing that part of the world with the Iron Fist they might use, then to allow lawlessness and anarchy type reign that always seems to develop when the so called reformers take over. I especially applaud Russia for keeping the Islamic states in that region in check.


Second, Russia was a 100% RIGHT on the Syria issue. We should havel supported (or remained neutral) AAAASSSSad over an Al Qaeda take over. AAASSSad might be a brutal dictator (which brutality is needed to govern Muslim barbarians), but he kept the country relatively stable (prior to the civil war), I mean that was the destination for Iraq refugees. He kept Al Qaeda in check and his regime was NOT a threat to America. Not even to Israel for that matter. The countries hate each other, but they have kind of a cold peace over there. He also protected the Christian minority, who are under ATTACK by the Al Qaeda rebels. If the Al Qaeda rebels took over they would be supporting and growing Sunni terrorist. They would be a direct threat to Israel and an indirect threat to America and the West. They would also massacure the Christian minority like what happened in Iraq and Egypt. Russia had it right and we had it wrong.


The neocons and the liberal Chicken-Hawks (DEF: liberals that support military intervention when we have a Democratic President) bash Russia, but Russia and America have a common enemy (Muslims), but our mindset is still in the cold war.

We should actually sign a treaty with Russia and seek better ties. The treaty should revolve around them policing their own area and we doing the same. Russia now has a market based economy (capitalism) and has embraced privatization. They are no longer the central planning of years passed. We have more in common with them than many Western European countries. Russia's military enemy is are the Muslims (same as us) and their economic enemy is China (same as us)! 

We should partner with Russia and not seek to harm them when they police their own backyard!


----------



## bianco

Katzndogz said:


> novasteve said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin has every right in his sphere of influence to intervene military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not when it violates a treaty. Ukraine gave up its nukes on condition that Russian wouldn't do what it is doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine was never a nuclear power.
> 
> Like it or not, 60% of the Ukranian population thinks of themselves as Russian.
Click to expand...



Moral of this story...if you do have nukes...*never * give them up, any of them.
You just never know when the snakes will bite.


----------



## Nutz

Katzndogz said:


> novasteve said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R.C. Christian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin has every right in his sphere of influence to intervene military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not when it violates a treaty. Ukraine gave up its nukes on condition that Russian wouldn't do what it is doing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine was never a nuclear power.
> 
> Like it or not, 60% of the Ukranian population thinks of themselves as Russian.
Click to expand...


I don't think you are correct.  IIRC, part of the treaty in 1994 was to give Ukraine independence and to relinquish its nuclear arsenal. 

As for 60%, Im not sure about that either...you have any sources for that number?


----------



## Katzndogz

Nutz said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> eventhough the US and UK vowed to protect the Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukraine isn't a homogeneous mass. I'm sure there are plenty of Ukrainians who support Russian intervention, so what exactly would the US be protecting? Only their own interests, naturally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So treaties and promises don't matter?  The US isn't a homogeneous mass either...no nation is.  The Ukranian government has asked the US to help.  NATO, France, and the UK have all issued warnings to Putin.  The UN has issued statements against any Russian intervention and this is *quickly* turning into a world crisis.
> 
> Are you saying we should appease Russia and Putin and just let them invade Ukraine?
Click to expand...


The Ukrainian government asked for no such thing.  The last elected president is in Moscow asking Russia for help.  The puppet usurper is an EU banker.    If we did have a treaty with Ukraine, the obligations of that treaty would belong to the duly elected government.  Who is now in Moscow.  It would not belong to a banker who assumed power.


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy

Nutz said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> eventhough the US and UK vowed to protect the Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukraine isn't a homogeneous mass. I'm sure there are plenty of Ukrainians who support Russian intervention, so what exactly would the US be protecting? Only their own interests, naturally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So treaties and promises don't matter?  The US isn't a homogeneous mass either...no nation is.  The Ukranian government has asked the US to help.  NATO, France, and the UK have all issued warnings to Putin.  The UN has issued statements against any Russian intervention and this is *quickly* turning into a world crisis.
> 
> Are you saying we should appease Russia and Putin and just let them invade Ukraine?
Click to expand...


I'm sorry, the Ukrainian government? Would that be the elected government, or the neo-nazi government that threw out the elected government? Regardless, treaties can be revoked, and no, promises don't matter. Was Russia appeasing the US when they sat back while the US backed the Ukrainian rebels, or the Syrian rebels? The simple fact is that it has nothing to do with the US and has nothing to do with "appeasement."


----------



## SayMyName

Regardless of who is President, the US is in no position to really do anything in the Ukraine other than give moral support. Militarily, the United States does not have the personnel or material reserve to keep a large and effective enough military force in the field to assume the duties necessary for the type of combat required to contain an opponent as large, modern, and aggressive in fighting spirit as the Russian army.

When thinking about any action against the Russians, remember, even if the Russians allowed us to put a large enough force near their borders, say, as a golf type handicap, the nature of the warfare would be so intensive as to parallel combat action on the eastern front for the German Wehrmacht during World War 2. Entire battalions could be destroyed, and divisions decimated as an every day occurrence.

I am not sure Americans are ready for that sort of sacrifice popping up on the news airwaves and interrupting supper before the television each night. I suspect that in this day and age, this is the reason why we are more comfortable fighting nations of the Third World.


----------



## Nutz

Katzndogz said:


> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> eventhough the US and UK vowed to protect the Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukraine isn't a homogeneous mass. I'm sure there are plenty of Ukrainians who support Russian intervention, so what exactly would the US be protecting? Only their own interests, naturally.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We don't have any interests there.  The EU has some interests as a trading partner, but the US has zip in Ukraine.
Click to expand...


Sure we have interests there.  First of all, NATO and the needs of our European allies.  Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to a nation we vowed to protect because the russians now say they want it?  That's appeasement and appeasement, as history has proven, is not a good policy.


----------



## Kevin_Kennedy

Nutz said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukraine isn't a homogeneous mass. I'm sure there are plenty of Ukrainians who support Russian intervention, so what exactly would the US be protecting? Only their own interests, naturally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have any interests there.  The EU has some interests as a trading partner, but the US has zip in Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure we have interests there.  First of all, NATO and the needs of our European allies.  Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to a nation we vowed to protect because the russians now say they want it?  That's appeasement and appeasement, as history has proven, is not a good policy.
Click to expand...


Where did the Russian government say they want the Ukraine?


----------



## Nutz

SayMyName said:


> Regardless of who is President, the US is in no position to really do anything in the Ukraine other than give moral support. Militarily, the United States does not have the personnel or material reserve to keep a large and effective enough military force in the field to assume the duties necessary for the type of combat necessary to even contain a opponent as large, modern, and aggressive in fighting spirit as the Russian army.
> 
> When thinking about any action against the Russians, remember, even if the Russians allowed us to put a large enough force near their borders, say, as a golf type handicap, the nature of the warfare would be so intensive as the parallel combat action on the eastern front for the German Wehrmacht of during World War 2. Entire battalions could be destroyed, and divisions decimated as an every day occurrence.
> 
> I am not sure Americans are ready for that sort of sacrifice popping up on the news airwaves and interrupting supper before the television each night. I suspect that in this day and age, this is the reason why we are more comfortable fighting nations of the Third World.



Im sure Americans have little appetite for war, but this would not be a US - Russian conflice.  NATO and our allies would be involved.  

Does anyone here watch the news.  It isn't just the US that has a problem with Russian intervention, it is NATO and Europe as well.


----------



## SayMyName

Nutz said:


> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of who is President, the US is in no position to really do anything in the Ukraine other than give moral support. Militarily, the United States does not have the personnel or material reserve to keep a large and effective enough military force in the field to assume the duties necessary for the type of combat necessary to even contain a opponent as large, modern, and aggressive in fighting spirit as the Russian army.
> 
> When thinking about any action against the Russians, remember, even if the Russians allowed us to put a large enough force near their borders, say, as a golf type handicap, the nature of the warfare would be so intensive as the parallel combat action on the eastern front for the German Wehrmacht of during World War 2. Entire battalions could be destroyed, and divisions decimated as an every day occurrence.
> 
> I am not sure Americans are ready for that sort of sacrifice popping up on the news airwaves and interrupting supper before the television each night. I suspect that in this day and age, this is the reason why we are more comfortable fighting nations of the Third World.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure Americans have little appetite for war, but this would not be a US - Russian conflice.  NATO and our allies would be involved.
> 
> Does anyone here watch the news.  It isn't just the US that has a problem with Russian intervention, it is NATO and Europe as well.
Click to expand...


NATO is in no position to take on the Russians either. The have neither the stomach or the reserves. They only made a gambit of reaching out to the Ukranians, but in the end, it did not work out as planned. They will forget them, and make amends with the Russians over the next few months or years as they normally do.


----------



## Katzndogz

Nutz said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> novasteve said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not when it violates a treaty. Ukraine gave up its nukes on condition that Russian wouldn't do what it is doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine was never a nuclear power.
> 
> Like it or not, 60% of the Ukranian population thinks of themselves as Russian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think you are correct.  IIRC, part of the treaty in 1994 was to give Ukraine independence and to relinquish its nuclear arsenal.
> 
> As for 60%, Im not sure about that either...you have any sources for that number?
Click to expand...


IF in 1994 the Ukraine got independence, it was not at that time a nuclear power.  Any nuclear devices in Ukraine would belong to the Russians who were required to remove them.  

The 60% figure, I heard in a news report.   It is never doubted that the region, primarily Crimea is majority Russian.  Even Ukraniang biker gangs have turned out to support Russian Ukranians.


----------



## bianco

Nutz said:


> So the Russians approved sending troops to the Ukraine.  Considering Obama is President...I say Russia has already won.  We know Europe won't step up and we know the UK won't join the US in enforcing the treaty they already signed.  Putin has one upped the US with Snowden, Syria, and Georgia...Im afraid the US has lost all respect and power...the only thing to fear militarily are drones...and they aren't gonna work against Russia.
> 
> Russian upper house approves use of military force in Ukraine - CNN.com



What would you have Obama and Cameron, and their Congress and Parliament actually do, invade Ukraine?...send troops to the Ukraine to get slaughtered?...because get slaughtered they most certainly would be.
Start another stoopid war?

Arm Australia to the teeth with nukes and US and Britain wouldn't have to worry about defending Australia either if she were to be attacked again by Japan...attacked by Indonesia, China, NK etc.

No invading Ukraine!   it would only end badly.
*Many thousands of fine, young, healthy Americans would surely die for nothing. *
Hitler, and the might of the Nazi military attacked Russia, it didn't work out.
Napoleon tried it, attacked with 650,000 troops, only 5000 made it home alive.

Russia has obviously decided to rule the world.
Best buddies with Indonesia...a Russian military base there soon would not surprise me.
Russia is already supplying Indonesia with a military arsenal.

Asia, Cuba, South America etc...Russia is expanding.


----------



## Roudy

The T said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The T said:
> 
> 
> 
> Complete failure on steroids. Let us see if the LINE he drew last night has any teeth...
> 
> 
> 
> The con artist didn't draw a line his time. LOL. He basically gave the Russians the green light to do as they please.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Pretty much like Syria...Right?
Click to expand...

No dictator or strongman will take Obama seriously any longer. All of our enemies are laughing at the US now. 

Obama's weakness will result the US to be forced to enter into a major war. It could be Iran, it could be N Korea, Russia, Middle East, or a proxy war with Russia or China.  Which would not be necessary had his philosophy been peace through strength.


----------



## Nutz

GHook93 said:


> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> So the Russians approved sending troops to the Ukraine.  Considering Obama is President...I say Russia has already won.  We know Europe won't step up and we know the UK won't join the US in enforcing the treaty they already signed.  Putin has one upped the US with Snowden, Syria, and Georgia...Im afraid the US has lost all respect and power...the only thing to fear militarily are drones...and they aren't gonna work against Russia.
> 
> Russian upper house approves use of military force in Ukraine - CNN.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what!!! It's there neck of the woods and what happens in Ukraine directly affects them. I honestly don't give a shit what goes on there or in the Balkans. Last time we meddled there and chose sides against Russia, we had another Islamic Based, AntiAmerican supporting, terrorist hotbed, mafesto style government of Kosovo. I hope Clinton and the Democrats realize that there are many American hating terrorist that are festering and growing in that country. The Russian were RIGHT to support the Serbs and we should have also. But I digress.
Click to expand...

We should never support genocide. 



> We don't want Russia messing around in Cuba, Mexico or Central/South America, but in the Balkans and Eastern Europe? That is their neighborhood and it's a rough one to say the least. Let them police it.


Rolling over in Ukraine opens up the opportunity for Russian aggressian in Cuba and South America. 


> I personally would rather have Russia policing that part of the world with the Iron Fist they might use, then to allow lawlessness and anarchy type reign that always seems to develop when the so called reformers take over. I especially applaud Russia for keeping the Islamic states in that region in check.


In check?  Not sure about that, although I do agree with you when it comes to how Russia handles terrorists.  


> Second, Russia was a 100% RIGHT on the Syria issue. We should havel supported (or remained neutral) AAAASSSSad over an Al Qaeda take over. AAASSSad might be a brutal dictator (which brutality is needed to govern Muslim barbarians), but he kept the country relatively stable (prior to the civil war), I mean that was the destination for Iraq refugees. He kept Al Qaeda in check and his regime was NOT a threat to America. Not even to Israel for that matter. The countries hate each other, but they have kind of a cold peace over there. He also protected the Christian minority, who are under ATTACK by the Al Qaeda rebels. If the Al Qaeda rebels took over they would be supporting and growing Sunni terrorist. They would be a direct threat to Israel and an indirect threat to America and the West. They would also massacure the Christian minority like what happened in Iraq and Egypt. Russia had it right and we had it wrong.


I agree with this.  We don't need to bring freedom and democracy to the ME...we just need to seek stability and peace. 



> The neocons and the liberal Chicken-Hawks (DEF: liberals that support military intervention when we have a Democratic President) bash Russia, but Russia and America have a common enemy (Muslims), but our mindset is still in the cold war.


*Radical* Muslims is a common enemy, I agree with that.  NOnetheless, we can't allow Russia to do as she pleases with military force...that';s appeasement



> We should actually sign a treaty with Russia and seek better ties. The treaty should revolve around them policing their own area and we doing the same. Russia now has a market based economy (capitalism) and has embraced privatization. They are no longer the central planning of years passed. We have more in common with them than many Western European countries. Russia's military enemy is are the Muslims (same as us) and their economic enemy is China (same as us)!


We have seeked better ties with Russia and have signed many treaties with them.  We still can't appease them and allow them to do as they please.  We signed a treaty with Russia over the Ukraine.  Are you saying the US should ignore that treaty now.  Are you saying we should walk away from our committmenet to NATO and our European allies?


> We should partner with Russia and not seek to harm them when they police their own backyard!


what exactly are they policing in Ukraine?


Nice post! No insults, valid points and the ability to disagree in an honorable manner!


----------



## Papageorgio

Sallow said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sallow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia invaded Georgia while Bush was President.
> 
> Didn't see any Liberals siding with Putin or Russia back then.
> 
> Gotta love you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> y
> 
> No one is siding with the Commie, he is a disgusting human being with lots of blood on his hands, killing his own people.
> 
> The issue is Putin, has no respect for Obama and his administration. He has no respect for the United States of America and Obama doesn't have a clue, he is weak and our enemies and allies know it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So a Sociopathic, ex-KGB, Authoritarian has no "respect" for the Leader of the Free world.
> 
> Here's a NEWSFLASH.
> 
> Pooty-poot had zero "respect" for Bush as well.
Click to expand...


No he feared Bush, he knows Obama is all talk, Putin knows that. Obama needs to put Putin in his place.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Russian troops take over Ukraine's Crimea region

Obama will do nothing. And the Russians will grab more countries.


----------



## Katzndogz

Nutz said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin_Kennedy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Ukraine isn't a homogeneous mass. I'm sure there are plenty of Ukrainians who support Russian intervention, so what exactly would the US be protecting? Only their own interests, naturally.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have any interests there.  The EU has some interests as a trading partner, but the US has zip in Ukraine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure we have interests there.  First of all, NATO and the needs of our European allies.  Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to a nation we vowed to protect because the russians now say they want it?  That's appeasement and appeasement, as history has proven, is not a good policy.
Click to expand...


Ukraine is not a NATO member nation.  We have no obligation to protect it.  The sad fact for liberals is, most Ukranians think of themselves as Russian.  If we go in there, we will have no friends, no allies and a native population that wants us  dead or out.   We will literally be the invaders.  There is not a worse position to be in.  Our military would have to kill the very people liberals imagine we are protecting.  In 1995 and again in 2008 Ukraine had an opportunity to become a NATO member but the people voted against it.  

This is almost the mirror image of obama's fiasco in Honduras.   Zelaya announced his taking total power.  The people revolted and the Supreme Court of Honduras ordered the army to take Zelaya into custody.  In that case, obama supported communist Zelaya as the elected president when the people didn't want him.  Both the Supreme Court and the Honduran army told obama to butt out.


----------



## Nutz

SayMyName said:


> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of who is President, the US is in no position to really do anything in the Ukraine other than give moral support. Militarily, the United States does not have the personnel or material reserve to keep a large and effective enough military force in the field to assume the duties necessary for the type of combat necessary to even contain a opponent as large, modern, and aggressive in fighting spirit as the Russian army.
> 
> When thinking about any action against the Russians, remember, even if the Russians allowed us to put a large enough force near their borders, say, as a golf type handicap, the nature of the warfare would be so intensive as the parallel combat action on the eastern front for the German Wehrmacht of during World War 2. Entire battalions could be destroyed, and divisions decimated as an every day occurrence.
> 
> I am not sure Americans are ready for that sort of sacrifice popping up on the news airwaves and interrupting supper before the television each night. I suspect that in this day and age, this is the reason why we are more comfortable fighting nations of the Third World.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure Americans have little appetite for war, but this would not be a US - Russian conflice.  NATO and our allies would be involved.
> 
> Does anyone here watch the news.  It isn't just the US that has a problem with Russian intervention, it is NATO and Europe as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NATO is in no position to take on the Russians either. The have neither the stomach or the reserves. They only made a gambit of reaching out to the Ukranians, but in the end, it did not work out as planned. They will forget them, and make amends with the Russians over the next few months or years as they normally do.
Click to expand...


Sure NATO could take on the Russians, they are no way as powerful as they were during the cold war.  As for Europe and war...just look at history to realize their blood lust. But your right, under the leadership of Obama, we will appease the russians until their next sign of aggression, then we will appease them again until diplomacy is moot and military action is necessary.


----------



## JakeStarkey

And neither would have George Bush.

You neo-cons are being stood down.

Tis what tis.


----------



## Nutz

Katzndogz said:


> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> We don't have any interests there.  The EU has some interests as a trading partner, but the US has zip in Ukraine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure we have interests there.  First of all, NATO and the needs of our European allies.  Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to a nation we vowed to protect because the russians now say they want it?  That's appeasement and appeasement, as history has proven, is not a good policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ukraine is not a NATO member nation.  We have no obligation to protect it.  The sad fact for liberals is, most Ukranians think of themselves as Russian.  If we go in there, we will have no friends, no allies and a native population that wants us  dead or out.   We will literally be the invaders.  There is not a worse position to be in.  Our military would have to kill the very people liberals imagine we are protecting.  In 1995 and again in 2008 Ukraine had an opportunity to become a NATO member but the people voted against it.
> 
> This is almost the mirror image of obama's fiasco in Honduras.   Zelaya announced his taking total power.  The people revolted and the Supreme Court of Honduras ordered the army to take Zelaya into custody.  In that case, obama supported communist Zelaya as the elected president when the people didn't want him.  Both the Supreme Court and the Honduran army told obama to butt out.
Click to expand...

We have a treaty with Ukraine.  Your idea that most Ukranians think themselves as Russia is wrong, why else are they requesting help from the US and NATO. Why else did they oust their Prime Minister who wanted stronger ties with Russia.  Yes, there are many Russianites in the Ukraine, but that number is far less than the Ukranians who want to be part of the west.  Right now, the Ukrainian PM is telling the world that there military is ready to fight the Russians


----------



## JakeStarkey

"Im afraid the US has lost all respect and power"

With whom? George Bush would not have gone to war, you idiot, and neither should we today.

Your day is over, neo-cons.  No one respect you.


----------



## Nutz

JakeStarkey said:


> "Im afraid the US has lost all respect and power"
> 
> With whom? George Bush would not have gone to war, you idiot, and neither should we today.
> 
> Your day is over, neo-cons.  No one respect you.



LOL, idiot liberals cannot have a discussion without hurling the insults and without providing any facts or original ideas...only nonsensical posts attacking anyone who disagrees with them.  Your knowledge is devoid of history AND current events.  Move on, you are an idiot.


----------



## LoneLaugher

What.....EXACTLY......should Obama do?


----------



## Nutz

> Revealed: The forgotten treaty which could drag the US and UK into WAR with Russia if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine
> 
> 
> The agreement sees signatories promise to protect Ukraine's borders
> 
> It was signed by Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma in 1994
> 
> Ukrainian parliament has now reached out directly to all the countries who signed the treaty
> 
> Putin currently has 150,000 troops on Ukraine's borders and it is reported some have crossed into the country
> 
> President Obama says he is 'deeply concerned' by the news
> 
> The US and Britain have both made 'crisis calls' to President Putin to warn him to respect territorial boundaries


Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online


----------



## Connery

There is a lot more to this equation than Obama...or any US president in the same situation.  "NATO, sparked by leadership from President Obama, must finally allow Georgia to advance toward alliance membership. Granting Georgia the Membership Action Plan (or 'MAP') that it has earned by meeting strict NATO requirements is the clearest way to impose a cost on Moscow for its bullying while demonstrating to Ukraine and other countries that the hard work of reform really does pay off".

After Ukraine, NATO Must Give Georgia Its MAP*|*Edward P. Joseph

 The landscape is changing and should Russia could find themselves in a bit of a bind over this situation. Russia for there part has a right to protect their people and sought to do so. Any sovereign state should act in their own best interests, it is more than thumbing a nose at a US president it is their right and responsibility to act.


----------



## Roudy

Many people said the same things after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. 

This is what happens when we have weak presidents. Dictators make their moves.


----------



## skye

longknife said:


> A slight aside - the Ukraine was ONCE PART OF RUSSIA!!! Russia granted it a separate state sometime in the 50s -- I think. They still have troops in Crimea.




It  was   indeed part of Russia!

In fact Livadia which was  one of their  palaces,located in Crimea, Southern Ukraine, was the favorite summer retreat of the last Tzar and his family.







Tzars daughters, the Grand Duchesses at Livadia, around 1910.





No wonder it was their favorite holiday home!


----------



## skye

RetiredGySgt said:


> Russian troops take over Ukraine's Crimea region
> 
> Obama will do nothing. And the Russians will grab more countries.



Crimea always belonged to Russia, but that said, I totally see your point, totally!

Obama neither is interested nor knows anything  about world politics, that is a known and proven fact by now!

He is too busy giving entitlements to future voters  and partying with Beyonce!

It's a sad state of affairs for what was once the most powerful country in the world.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

We have a treaty with the Ukraine that States we will defend them. We should do so. I would send the 82nd and order two more divisions to follow. Europe has the same treaty they should send troops also.

If Russia wants war we give it to them or they withdraw. All we do by not acting is allow Russia the ability to seize more Countries until they finally go far enough that we have no choice but to act.

Just as we failed to act when Germany seized the Sudetenland if we fail to act here we are on a spiral to war.

I do not believe Russia wants war, Putin rightly believes that Obama is weak and will do nothing.


----------



## Kondor3

Sallow said:


> Glad to see the Putinbots floating his propaganda. Good stuff.


Not really. Consider it 'tough love'. Obama does not inspire confidence as a leader in a mortal crisis.

If a rumble breaks-out, you'll see those who joke about Obama or who serve-up faint-praise for Uncle Vlad - you'll see those good, loyal Americans come around and line up on the American side of the rumble, but, until that happens...

A weak leader - or even a _perceived_ weak leader - is dangerous at such times.

And 'weak leader' is exactly the way a great many of his own countrymen perceive him, so, what do you think your average foreigner-pragmatic is going to think of him? Especially a hard-ass like Putin?

Don't make more of this than is warranted, nor try to taint your political opponents with a 'Treason' denouncement, just because they think your boy can't 'cut it' when the shit starts to fly, and they have the courage to say so...


----------



## Kondor3

Hmmmm... well, there's a 'non-lethal' way to serve-up a biotch-slap to Vlad and Company - without mobilizing or otherwise getting carried away or overreacting.

And, good catch (and articulation) of that '_more to this than Obama_' observation.



Connery said:


> There is a lot more to this equation than Obama...or any US president in the same situation.  "NATO, sparked by leadership from President Obama, must finally allow Georgia to advance toward alliance membership. Granting Georgia the Membership Action Plan (or 'MAP') that it has earned by meeting strict NATO requirements is the clearest way to impose a cost on Moscow for its bullying while demonstrating to Ukraine and other countries that the hard work of reform really does pay off".
> 
> After Ukraine, NATO Must Give Georgia Its MAP*|*Edward P. Joseph
> 
> The landscape is changing and should Russia could find themselves in a bit of a bind over this situation. Russia for there part has a right to protect their people and sought to do so. Any sovereign state should act in their own best interests, it is more than thumbing a nose at a US president it is their right and responsibility to act.


----------



## Borillar

LoneLaugher said:


> What.....EXACTLY......should Obama do?



It doesn't matter what Obama does. Nutters are obligated to oppose anything and everything he does. A broken clock is correct twice a day, but to nutters, Obama is 100% wrong 100% of the time.


----------



## Kondor3

Borillar said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> What.....EXACTLY......should Obama do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter what Obama does. Nutters are obligated to oppose anything and everything he does. A broken clock is correct twice a day, but to nutters, Obama is 100% wrong 100% of the time.
Click to expand...

You are correct.

It doesn't matter what Obama does.

He is perceived as weak in the context of military interventions and geopolitik.

He acquired this perception through his own actions and mannerisms and policies, and those of his Administration, over the course of the past five years.

It isn't "nutters" who perceive him as a weakling.

It is our Adversaries who perceive him as a weakling.

Intelligent, forceful, pragmatic, risk-taking and formidable Adversaries.

Case-in-point: Russian actions in the Crimea, with the Russian Parliament now giving carte blanche for Putin to extend that action to the Ukraine at-large, and to recall the Russian Federation ambassador to the United States.

Your Honor, the Prosecution rests.

Rightly or wrongly, Obama is stuck with his 'reputation' or perception as a weakling.

And we're stuck with a leader who is so perceived, by Vlad and others.

Don't blame Obama's detractors.

The blame lies squarely upon the President and his advisers and Administration, for allowing such perceptions to arise in the first place.


----------



## bodecea

Sallow said:


> So you guys are with Putin on this.
> 
> Figures.



Yep...they've pretty torn up G. Washington's advice.


----------



## LoneLaugher

You assholes simply react. If Obama asks Congress to declare war on the Russian Federation tomorrow, you will oppose him. 

You all suck. But you know it. If makes it more fun to know that you know.


----------



## Avatar4321

Katzndogz said:


> President Putin didn't answer obama.  He ignored obama.  obama is no longer a player.



It looks like we are a paper tiger at the moment.

We need to fix the inner vessel before we can have influence in the world.


----------



## Avatar4321

LoneLaugher said:


> You assholes simply react. If Obama asks Congress to declare war on the Russian Federation tomorrow, you will oppose him.
> 
> You all suck. But you know it. If makes it more fun to know that you know.



Because going to war immediately is foolish.

We need to fix the inner vessel.


----------



## Avatar4321

RetiredGySgt said:


> We have a treaty with the Ukraine that States we will defend them. We should do so. I would send the 82nd and order two more divisions to follow. Europe has the same treaty they should send troops also.
> 
> If Russia wants war we give it to them or they withdraw. All we do by not acting is allow Russia the ability to seize more Countries until they finally go far enough that we have no choice but to act.
> 
> Just as we failed to act when Germany seized the Sudetenland if we fail to act here we are on a spiral to war.
> 
> I do not believe Russia wants war, Putin rightly believes that Obama is weak and will do nothing.



In other words, WW3 just started.


----------



## Avatar4321

skye said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops take over Ukraine's Crimea region
> 
> Obama will do nothing. And the Russians will grab more countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crimea always belonged to Russia, but that said, I totally see your point, totally!
> 
> Obama neither is interested nor knows anything  about world politics, that is a known and proven fact by now!
> 
> He is too busy giving entitlements to future voters  and partying with Beyonce!
> 
> It's a sad state of affairs for what was once the most powerful country in the world.
Click to expand...


Poland "always" belonged to Germany and Russia...


----------



## Iceweasel

My main concern is that Obama will overreact given his track record of appeasement and capitulation. Since his words aren't taken seriously on the world stage he may decide to try to prove everyone wrong. I just hope Michelle keeps him on a short leash.


----------



## LoneLaugher

Avatar4321 said:


> LoneLaugher said:
> 
> 
> 
> You assholes simply react. If Obama asks Congress to declare war on the Russian Federation tomorrow, you will oppose him.
> 
> You all suck. But you know it. If makes it more fun to know that you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because going to war immediately is foolish.
> 
> We need to fix the inner vessel.
Click to expand...


Did you REALLY not understand my point? Is that possible?


----------



## Roudy

Overall, Obama's foreign policy has been a disaster and it would be only a matter of time before Russia takes advantage of a weak paper tiger as it always does. This is just the beginning, wait and see what a fuckup this president really is. 

But don't worry, we have an all star team of paid liars...Susan Rice at National Security, Chuck Hagel at sec. of defense, and John Kerry as sec. of state at the helm. 

God help us all.


----------



## Zander

You don't have to be on Putin's "side" to know that Obama is an effeminate pansy with a feckless foreign policy.


----------



## pvsi

Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq. 
CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News


----------



## OKTexas

Right, PUtin told him to piss up a rope. But you can imagine anything you want.


----------



## jon_berzerk

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News



so he did get that strongly worded letter out


----------



## ScienceRocks

We need to stay out of it, period.

It isn't our job to defend the rest of the world from it self. jeezzz. We don't have the money anyways is what you conservative say. Seriously, somehow doubt we'd have the money to fight the biggest war since wwII.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Putin now knows he is free to seize any old Soviet Block Country he feels like. This will lead to war in a very short time as Russia eventually will try for Poland and the Balkan Countries as well.


----------



## ScienceRocks

Let's tell the world that we will remain neutral!


----------



## pvsi

OKTexas said:


> Right, PUtin told him to piss up a rope. But you can imagine anything you want.


Link please. Until then, it is only your imagination or a Fox News Fact (AKA fart)


----------



## pvsi

RetiredGySgt said:


> Putin now knows he is free to seize any old Soviet Block Country he feels like. This will lead to war in a very short time as Russia eventually will try for Poland and the Balkan Countries as well.


Putin does not need to invade anyone, all he has to do is denounce dollar, and a bunch of European nations will gladly join Russia. Then US/Israel can moan all they want.


----------



## OKTexas

pvsi said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right, PUtin told him to piss up a rope. But you can imagine anything you want.
> 
> 
> 
> Link please. Until then, it is only your imagination or a Fox News Fact (AKA fart)
Click to expand...


Read your own damned link, Putin made no concessions, your dear leader just made another speech, that will accomplish nothing. Putin will do what he wants, your dear leader will do nothing, that's the same a telling your mulatto messiah to piss up a rope.


----------



## Steven_R

Matthew said:


> Let's tell the world that we will remain neutral!



I agree! We'll have peace in our time!


----------



## ScienceRocks

Steven_R said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's tell the world that we will remain neutral!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree! We'll have peace in our time!
Click to expand...


If we stay out of it instead of throwing gas on it...Maybe Putin will just take eastern Ukraine without a full scale war.

Sounds far better then a war that gets us bombed.


----------



## Steven_R

Ahhh, the Neville Chamberlain School of International Relations.


----------



## ScienceRocks

Obama should invite Putin to the white house for a few beers and talk about peace!


----------



## pvsi

OKTexas said:


> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right, PUtin told him to piss up a rope. But you can imagine anything you want.
> 
> 
> 
> Link please. Until then, it is only your imagination or a Fox News Fact (AKA fart)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read your own damned link, Putin made no concessions, your dear leader just made another speech, that will accomplish nothing. Putin will do what he wants, your dear leader will do nothing, that's the same a telling your mulatto messiah to piss up a rope.
Click to expand...

What do you want the dear leader to do? bring home the bacon? Cut taxes support the troops? protect our international interests? bring US style democracy to the middle east more? do you love your president or not, let's start there.


----------



## R.C. Christian

Armchair generals amuse me.


----------



## jon_berzerk

probably not at this point 

Obama on Friday called on Russia to respect the independence and territory of Ukraine and not try to take advantage of its neighbor's political upheaval.
He said such action by Russia would represent a "profound interference" in matters he said should be decided by the Ukrainian people. He has not said, however, how the U.S. could pressure Moscow to step back from its intervention.
*The Russian parliament urged that Moscow recall its ambassador in Washington in response to Obama's speech.*

Russian troops take over Crimea, new Ukrainian government unable to resist - pressofAtlanticCity.com: Breaking News Alerts


----------



## pvsi

Matthew said:


> Obama should invite Putin to the white house for a few beers and talk about peace!


But Obama promised voters in 2008 to meet with leaders of Iran and Syria, but every time his air force one goes to the middle east, it gets derailed to Israel instead. So if he invites Putin, likely Netanyahu will come instead.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1dSPrb5w_k]YouTube Debate: Would You Meet with Iran/Syria/North Korea? - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## thereisnospoon

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News



Is this a joke?
Uniformed men wearing no rank or insignia are occupying parts of Ukraine as we discuss this.
Obama does not concern Putin.
Putin has rationalized his actions by stating his military has crossed into Ukraine to "protect ethnic Russians".
Total bullshit. Putin wants Ukraine back under control of Russia.


----------



## thereisnospoon

pvsi said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right, PUtin told him to piss up a rope. But you can imagine anything you want.
> 
> 
> 
> Link please. Until then, it is only your imagination or a Fox News Fact (AKA fart)
Click to expand...


What is it that indicates to you that anything Obama has to say concerns the Russian government in the least.


----------



## pvsi

jon_berzerk said:


> Obama on Friday called on Russia to respect the independence and territory of Ukraine and not try to take advantage of its neighbor's political upheaval


First you have to get rid of all the foreign vagina rioters 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9atAVFD_L8]Pussy Riot interview: Nadezhda Tolokonnikova comments on Ukraine protests - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## Steven_R

thereisnospoon said:


> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right, PUtin told him to piss up a rope. But you can imagine anything you want.
> 
> 
> 
> Link please. Until then, it is only your imagination or a Fox News Fact (AKA fart)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What is it that indicates to you that anything Obama has to say concerns the Russian government in the least.
Click to expand...


There's always the fear in Moscow that Obama will declare there is a line that can't be crossed, declare a line further down that can't be crossed, declare a line further down that is red and can't be crossed, and then pretend he said nothing of the sort.

That'll show Putin just the kind of man Obama is.


----------



## thereisnospoon

pvsi said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin now knows he is free to seize any old Soviet Block Country he feels like. This will lead to war in a very short time as Russia eventually will try for Poland and the Balkan Countries as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Putin does not need to invade anyone, all he has to do is denounce dollar, and a bunch of European nations will gladly join Russia. Then US/Israel can moan all they want.
Click to expand...


Gladly?
Why do I bother.
In the international community Obama is viewed as weak by our enemies, as a pain in the ass by our allies. Most of whom Obama has wasted no time pissing off.


----------



## OKTexas

pvsi said:


> OKTexas said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Link please. Until then, it is only your imagination or a Fox News Fact (AKA fart)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read your own damned link, Putin made no concessions, your dear leader just made another speech, that will accomplish nothing. Putin will do what he wants, your dear leader will do nothing, that's the same a telling your mulatto messiah to piss up a rope.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you want the dear leader to do? bring home the bacon? Cut taxes support the troops? protect our international interests? bring US style democracy to the middle east more? do you love your president or not, let's start there.
Click to expand...


I don't love anything that can't or won't love me back and the commie chicago gutter trash occupying the oval office doesn't love this country, let alone me. As for what he should do, nothing, he has proven himself to be a spineless individual and totally inept as a leader. Keeping that in mind I don't want him doing anything, just sit back enjoy his pop culture presidency and keep the damage to a minimum. Then maybe someone can come in and clean up his mess.


----------



## pvsi

thereisnospoon said:


> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a joke?
> Uniformed men wearing no rank or insignia are occupying parts of Ukraine as we discuss this.
> Obama does not concern Putin.
> Putin has rationalized his actions by stating his military has crossed into Ukraine to "protect ethnic Russians".
> Total bullshit. Putin wants Ukraine back under control of Russia.
Click to expand...

Ah where was Putin to save America when Occupy wall street broke out. by the way Ukraine had elections, so if dingbats don't like it, they should move to Israel or Saudi Arabia (US allies)


----------



## tinydancer

pvsi said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a joke?
> Uniformed men wearing no rank or insignia are occupying parts of Ukraine as we discuss this.
> Obama does not concern Putin.
> Putin has rationalized his actions by stating his military has crossed into Ukraine to "protect ethnic Russians".
> Total bullshit. Putin wants Ukraine back under control of Russia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah where was Putin to save America when Occupy wall street broke out. by the way Ukraine had elections, so if dingbats don't like it, they should move to Israel or Saudi Arabia (US allies)
Click to expand...


You best watch what you post.


----------



## pvsi

tinydancer said:


> Putin said fuck off you wimp.


Link please - I think you pulled this one out of Fox News Fart section


----------



## ScienceRocks

tinydancer said:


> Putin said fuck off you wimp.



Obama needs to call Putin back and invite him to the white house to talk peace. No war....


----------



## pvsi

tinydancer said:


> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a joke?
> Uniformed men wearing no rank or insignia are occupying parts of Ukraine as we discuss this.
> Obama does not concern Putin.
> Putin has rationalized his actions by stating his military has crossed into Ukraine to "protect ethnic Russians".
> Total bullshit. Putin wants Ukraine back under control of Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah where was Putin to save America when Occupy wall street broke out. by the way Ukraine had elections, so if dingbats don't like it, they should move to Israel or Saudi Arabia (US allies)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You best watch what you post.
Click to expand...

Explain please.


----------



## Steven_R

pvsi said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Putin said fuck off you wimp.
> 
> 
> 
> Link please - I think you pulled this one out of Fox News Fart section
Click to expand...


I'm pretty sure Russian troops inside of Ukrainian borders constitutes telling Obama to lick a ballsack.


----------



## TemplarKormac

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News



Talk is cheap.


----------



## The Rabbi

Yes, Obama avoided war. By surrendering.  We could have made the entire Cold War irrelevant simply by adopting communism and bowing to the Soviet Masters.  Doubtless many of Obama's influences advocated exactly that policy.
In reality Obama is a joke.  He has no credibility.  He will take no concrete steps nor exhibit leadership.  And the idependent country of the Ukraine will return to the soviet orbit as Putin rebuilds the Soviet Empire.
More enslavement, yes!


----------



## Trajan

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News



averted what? Putin has  done exactly what he wanted to do, the Crimea is his. 

What has changed?


----------



## boedicca

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News




This must be why Putin has requested troops for the Ukraine.

Heckuva Job Barry!


----------



## Steven_R

The Rabbi said:


> Yes, Obama avoided war. By surrendering.  We could have made the entire Cold War irrelevant simply by adopting communism and bowing to the Soviet Masters.  Doubtless many of Obama's influences advocated exactly that policy.
> In reality Obama is a joke.  He has no credibility.  He will take no concrete steps nor exhibit leadership.  And the idependent country of the Ukraine will return to the soviet orbit as Putin rebuilds the Soviet Empire.
> More enslavement, yes!



Elections have consequences.


----------



## The Rabbi

Steven_R said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Obama avoided war. By surrendering.  We could have made the entire Cold War irrelevant simply by adopting communism and bowing to the Soviet Masters.  Doubtless many of Obama's influences advocated exactly that policy.
> In reality Obama is a joke.  He has no credibility.  He will take no concrete steps nor exhibit leadership.  And the idependent country of the Ukraine will return to the soviet orbit as Putin rebuilds the Soviet Empire.
> More enslavement, yes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elections have consequences.
Click to expand...


And Obama's election had bad consequences for the rest of us.


----------



## bianco

Nutz said:


> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of who is President, the US is in no position to really do anything in the Ukraine other than give moral support. Militarily, the United States does not have the personnel or material reserve to keep a large and effective enough military force in the field to assume the duties necessary for the type of combat necessary to even contain a opponent as large, modern, and aggressive in fighting spirit as the Russian army.
> 
> When thinking about any action against the Russians, remember, even if the Russians allowed us to put a large enough force near their borders, say, as a golf type handicap, the nature of the warfare would be so intensive as the parallel combat action on the eastern front for the German Wehrmacht of during World War 2. Entire battalions could be destroyed, and divisions decimated as an every day occurrence.
> 
> I am not sure Americans are ready for that sort of sacrifice popping up on the news airwaves and interrupting supper before the television each night. I suspect that in this day and age, this is the reason why we are more comfortable fighting nations of the Third World.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure Americans have little appetite for war, but this would not be a US - Russian conflice.  NATO and our allies would be involved.
> 
> Does anyone here watch the news.  It isn't just the US that has a problem with Russian intervention, it is NATO and Europe as well.
Click to expand...


Australia is an ally of America.
She invoked the ANZUS treaty when America was attacked 9/11.
Sent troops and Navy ships to the Gulf/Iraq/Afghanistan to fight with America.

Australia send troops etc to fight Russia in Ukraine?
Hmmm...don't think that will be happening...the US has not been attacked.


----------



## bianco

It could well be a Russia V US conflict...Britain is broke, and judging by chatter of the People in UK forum, Britain might be staying away from this one, if the People get a say.
...US has not been attacked.

Does Obama hate Britain? - Yahoo7 Answers



> Does Obama hate Britain?
> 
> I was reading yesterday about Obama's hate for Britain... as a proud British citizen I feel the Obama is a threat to are security due to his START treaty with Russia *which involved America handing Russia Britain's nuclear missile plans and tactics! * Obama has also right to do this and If this had happened to America they would of launched a full blown attack on Great Britain.
> 
> This is not the only thing he has done, here are a list of things Obama has also done which has effected Britian
> 
> 1. Declaration of neutrality over the Falklands
> 2. *Downgrading of the Special Relationship *
> 3. Support for a federal Europe
> 4. *Undermining of British influence in NATO *
> 5. *Refusal to recognize Britain&#8217;s sacrifice in Afghanistan *
> 6. Throwing Churchill out of the Oval Office
> 7. *Insulting words from the State Department *
> 8. DVDs for the Prime Minister
> 9. Refusal to meet the Prime Minister in New York
> 
> Thanks and no insults ment to ordinary American citizens


----------



## Chuckt

Sallow said:


> So you guys are with Putin on this.
> 
> Figures.



Is it any of our business?


----------



## pvsi

The Rabbi said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Obama avoided war. By surrendering.  We could have made the entire Cold War irrelevant simply by adopting communism and bowing to the Soviet Masters.  Doubtless many of Obama's influences advocated exactly that policy.
> In reality Obama is a joke.  He has no credibility.  He will take no concrete steps nor exhibit leadership.  And the idependent country of the Ukraine will return to the soviet orbit as Putin rebuilds the Soviet Empire.
> More enslavement, yes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Elections have consequences.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And Obama's election had bad consequences for the rest of us.
Click to expand...

I thought it was America the beautiful that held the elections


----------



## GISMYS

obama says,"Putin you do as you please as I will not allow the USA to help Ukraine,I  ill di as i did in IRAQ,AFGAN AND SYRIA=CUT AND RUN!!!


----------



## Brain357

The Rabbi said:


> Yes, Obama avoided war. By surrendering.  We could have made the entire Cold War irrelevant simply by adopting communism and bowing to the Soviet Masters.  Doubtless many of Obama's influences advocated exactly that policy.
> In reality Obama is a joke.  He has no credibility.  He will take no concrete steps nor exhibit leadership.  And the idependent country of the Ukraine will return to the soviet orbit as Putin rebuilds the Soviet Empire.
> More enslavement, yes!



We have no place getting involved in this situation at all.  Ukraine wanted to be closer to the European Union so it's their problem.  Why would Russia want Ukraine anyhow?  Last I heard they were broke.  Tell Gaddafi and Bin Laden that Obama has no credibility.


----------



## Brain357

GISMYS said:


> obama says,"Putin you do as you please as I will not allow the USA to help Ukraine,I  ill di as i did in IRAQ,AFGAN AND SYRIA=CUT AND RUN!!!



Getting out of Iraq and staying out of Syria are a couple of the best things Obama has done.  Sooner we get out of Afgan the better.  I love how the right wants spending cuts except for when it comes to pointless wars.


----------



## GISMYS

Brain357 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Obama avoided war. By surrendering.  We could have made the entire Cold War irrelevant simply by adopting communism and bowing to the Soviet Masters.  Doubtless many of Obama's influences advocated exactly that policy.
> In reality Obama is a joke.  He has no credibility.  He will take no concrete steps nor exhibit leadership.  And the idependent country of the Ukraine will return to the soviet orbit as Putin rebuilds the Soviet Empire.
> More enslavement, yes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have no place getting involved in this situation at all.  Ukraine wanted to be closer to the European Union so it's their problem.  Why would Russia want Ukraine anyhow?  Last I heard they were broke.  Tell Gaddafi and Bin Laden that Obama has no credibility.
Click to expand...


THE Ukraine has a deep water black sea port and Russia feels they must at all costs keep control there!


----------



## pvsi

GISMYS said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Obama avoided war. By surrendering.  We could have made the entire Cold War irrelevant simply by adopting communism and bowing to the Soviet Masters.  Doubtless many of Obama's influences advocated exactly that policy.
> In reality Obama is a joke.  He has no credibility.  He will take no concrete steps nor exhibit leadership.  And the idependent country of the Ukraine will return to the soviet orbit as Putin rebuilds the Soviet Empire.
> More enslavement, yes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have no place getting involved in this situation at all.  Ukraine wanted to be closer to the European Union so it's their problem.  Why would Russia want Ukraine anyhow?  Last I heard they were broke.  Tell Gaddafi and Bin Laden that Obama has no credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THE Ukraine has a deep water black sea port and Russia feels they must at all costs keep control there!
Click to expand...

And European union, like USA is BROKE, why would Ukraine want to be a part of THAT? oh, their elections said they DON'T.


----------



## ScienceRocks

There's not going to be a war so we can all relax.


----------



## Katzndogz

obama spent  90 minutes  beggin President Putin to help him look good.  President Putin tells obama to go to his corner and shut up.  obama agrees, he averts war.  Good job obama.


----------



## Brain357

pvsi said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have no place getting involved in this situation at all.  Ukraine wanted to be closer to the European Union so it's their problem.  Why would Russia want Ukraine anyhow?  Last I heard they were broke.  Tell Gaddafi and Bin Laden that Obama has no credibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE Ukraine has a deep water black sea port and Russia feels they must at all costs keep control there!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And European union, like USA is BROKE, why would Ukraine want to be a part of THAT? oh, their elections said they DON'T.
Click to expand...


And none of that is our business.


----------



## RoadVirus

Russian (kinda) invades Ukraine

Obama's response: "Um...uh...well...BUSH'S FAULT!!"
John Kerry's Response: "Global Warming is a grave threat!"
Susan Rice's response: "It's all about the video!"


----------



## pvsi

Katzndogz said:


> obama spent  90 minutes  beggin President Putin to help him look good.  President Putin tells obama to go to his corner and shut up.  obama agrees, he averts war.  Good job obama.


Can McCain straighten it out for America, Obama is willing to lend him air force one, although it might get derailed to Israel as usual, but it's worth a try to save democracy.


----------



## Katzndogz

Brain357 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> obama says,"Putin you do as you please as I will not allow the USA to help Ukraine,I  ill di as i did in IRAQ,AFGAN AND SYRIA=CUT AND RUN!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting out of Iraq and staying out of Syria are a couple of the best things Obama has done.  Sooner we get out of Afgan the better.  I love how the right wants spending cuts except for when it comes to pointless wars.
Click to expand...

We stayed out of Syria except for giving aid to Al quaeda.  President Putin has yet to punish obama for that.


----------



## Nutz

bianco said:


> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SayMyName said:
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of who is President, the US is in no position to really do anything in the Ukraine other than give moral support. Militarily, the United States does not have the personnel or material reserve to keep a large and effective enough military force in the field to assume the duties necessary for the type of combat necessary to even contain a opponent as large, modern, and aggressive in fighting spirit as the Russian army.
> 
> When thinking about any action against the Russians, remember, even if the Russians allowed us to put a large enough force near their borders, say, as a golf type handicap, the nature of the warfare would be so intensive as the parallel combat action on the eastern front for the German Wehrmacht of during World War 2. Entire battalions could be destroyed, and divisions decimated as an every day occurrence.
> 
> I am not sure Americans are ready for that sort of sacrifice popping up on the news airwaves and interrupting supper before the television each night. I suspect that in this day and age, this is the reason why we are more comfortable fighting nations of the Third World.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure Americans have little appetite for war, but this would not be a US - Russian conflice.  NATO and our allies would be involved.
> 
> Does anyone here watch the news.  It isn't just the US that has a problem with Russian intervention, it is NATO and Europe as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Australia is an ally of America.
> She invoked the ANZUS treaty when America was attacked 9/11.
> Sent troops and Navy ships to the Gulf/Iraq/Afghanistan to fight with America.
> 
> Australia send troops etc to fight Russia in Ukraine?
> Hmmm...don't think that will be happening...the US has not been attacked.
Click to expand...

First of all, who said anything about boots on the ground?  We did sign a treaty with the Ukraine.  So did the UK. NATO member states, if we were dragged into a conflict, have a responsibility as well as defined by the alliance. Nobody wants war, but appeasement is not an option either.  Basically, a conflict with Russia could very well mean WWIII...whether you like it or not.  

The funny thing, it will be mostly European troops on the ground in the Ukraine...not American. We, more than likely would be in the Middle East and Persia, creating blockades and expanding the conflict into multiple fronts in an attempt to cut off supply lines and trade with nations like Iran.


----------



## namvet

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News



smell what you shovel

 Russian President Vladimir Putin appeared Saturday to dismiss warnings from world leaders to avoid military intervention in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, even amid growing evidence that pro-Russian forces were already in control of the region.


----------



## GISMYS

Katzndogz said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> obama says,"Putin you do as you please as I will not allow the USA to help Ukraine,I  ill di as i did in IRAQ,AFGAN AND SYRIA=CUT AND RUN!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting out of Iraq and staying out of Syria are a couple of the best things Obama has done.  Sooner we get out of Afgan the better.  I love how the right wants spending cuts except for when it comes to pointless wars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We stayed out of Syria except for giving aid to Al quaeda.  President Putin has yet to punish obama for that.
Click to expand...


obama wasted all of our troop"s  lives lost and the $$$$ in iraq and afgan and watched 150,000 die in syria=it's called leading from behind!!!


----------



## longknife

He who steps up to the plate gets to swing the bat.

Everyone else is in the stands - along with Obama.


----------



## ScienceRocks

BUSH INVADED IRAQ and stayed there for the better part of a term and a half only to hand it over to Obama.


----------



## Nutz

RoadVirus said:


> Russian (kinda) invades Ukraine
> 
> Obama's response: "Um...uh...well...BUSH'S FAULT!!"
> John Kerry's Response: "Global Warming is a grave threat!"
> Susan Rice's response: "It's all about the video!"



LMAO...but lets keep it fair, add Palin saying: "I told you so!"
Fox news response:  "Blame Obamacare"
MSNBC response: "Its a war on woman," or "um...they just want to send blacks to the front line!"


----------



## GISMYS

Matthew said:


> BUSH INVADED IRAQ and stayed there for the better part of a term and a half only to hand it over to Obama.



yes!! ignorant people elected obama who is clueless on everything!!! just clueless!!!


----------



## CaféAuLait

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News



Your link goes to this story:

*U.S. condemns Russia's 'invasion and occupation'*



> According to the Kremlin, *Putin told Obama that Russia reserves the right to defend its interests in the Crimea *region and the Russian-speaking people who live there....
> 
> Russian President Vladimir *Putin appeared Saturday to dismiss warnings from world leaders to avoid military intervention in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, even amid growing evidence that pro-Russian forces were already in control of the region*.



Kerry condemns Russia's 'invasion' of Ukraine - CNN.com


----------



## georgephillip

"The developments follow an appeal by the Prime Minister of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Sergey Aksyonov, who requested that Russia to help cope with the crisis and ensure 'peace and calm' in the region.

"The tension in Crimea escalated following an attempt to seize the building of the local Interior Ministry by gunmen overnight. 

"Russias Foreign Ministry condemned the move in a statement, blaming the new authorities in Kiev for intending to 'destabilize the situation on the peninsula.'

"Meanwhile, self-proclaimed Ukrainian Acting President Aleksandr Turchinov has signed a decree ruling that appointment of the pro-Russia premier in Crimea is illegal.

"Aksyonov, who is the leader of Crimeas Russian Unity party, was appointed as the new Prime Minister of the autonomy after the Crimean Supreme Council dismissed the regional government. Peace and order in the region has been maintained by local armed self-defense squads, which were widely misreported as Russian troops on Friday." 

*Putin is currently looking at multiple NATO states on Ukraine's western border while being lectured by those responsible for the recent coup in Kiev to avoid taiking "provocative action".

What action would the US take if Putin was destabilizing Mexico?*

http://rt.com/news/russia-troops-ukraine-possible-359/


----------



## candycorn

Brain357 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> obama says,"Putin you do as you please as I will not allow the USA to help Ukraine,I  ill di as i did in IRAQ,AFGAN AND SYRIA=CUT AND RUN!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting out of Iraq and staying out of Syria are a couple of the best things Obama has done.  Sooner we get out of Afgan the better.  I love how the right wants spending cuts except for when it comes to pointless wars.
Click to expand...


Also staying out of Libya.  The President handled this one as well as can be expected.  There are places where we have influence and interest.  We have neither in the Ukraine.

I love the moron who said we'd have war in a very short time and the Russians will take Poland.


----------



## blackhawk

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News



I read the article you linked which one are you were you reading?


----------



## GISMYS

CaféAuLait;8706317 said:
			
		

> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your link goes to this story:
> 
> *U.S. condemns Russia's 'invasion and occupation'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Kremlin, *Putin told Obama that Russia reserves the right to defend its interests in the Crimea *region and the Russian-speaking people who live there....
> 
> Russian President Vladimir *Putin appeared Saturday to dismiss warnings from world leaders to avoid military intervention in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, even amid growing evidence that pro-Russian forces were already in control of the region*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kerry condemns Russia's 'invasion' of Ukraine - CNN.com
Click to expand...


another "peace in our time"????? The RUSSIAN INVASION IS JUST GETTING STARTED!!! WAKE UP!!


----------



## Brain357

GISMYS said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUSH INVADED IRAQ and stayed there for the better part of a term and a half only to hand it over to Obama.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes!! ignorant people elected obama who is clueless on everything!!! just clueless!!!
Click to expand...


Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?


----------



## Nutz

georgephillip said:


> "The developments follow an appeal by the Prime Minister of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Sergey Aksyonov, who requested that Russia to help cope with the crisis and ensure 'peace and calm' in the region.
> 
> "The tension in Crimea escalated following an attempt to seize the building of the local Interior Ministry by gunmen overnight.
> 
> "Russias Foreign Ministry condemned the move in a statement, blaming the new authorities in Kiev for intending to 'destabilize the situation on the peninsula.'
> 
> "Meanwhile, self-proclaimed Ukrainian Acting President Aleksandr Turchinov has signed a decree ruling that appointment of the pro-Russia premier in Crimea is illegal.
> 
> "Aksyonov, who is the leader of Crimeas Russian Unity party, was appointed as the new Prime Minister of the autonomy after the Crimean Supreme Council dismissed the regional government. Peace and order in the region has been maintained by local armed self-defense squads, which were widely misreported as Russian troops on Friday."
> 
> *Putin is currently looking at multiple NATO states on Ukraine's western border while being lectured by those responsible for the recent coup in Kiev to avoid taiking "provocative action".
> 
> What action would the US take if Putin was destabilizing Mexico?*
> 
> Putin: Russian citizens, troops threatened in Ukraine, need armed forces? protection ? RT News



How is the west destabilizing the Ukraine.  The Ukranians are the ones requesting we keep our word and defend them from attack.  I get Putin's view and he can have Crimea...hell, I can somewhat respect him for coming to the aid of his supporters.  In the end, the Ukraine is gonna be split to avoid war and save face for all involved.


----------



## namvet

Matthew said:


> BUSH INVADED IRAQ and stayed there for the better part of a term and a half only to hand it over to Obama.



wrong. the war was over before Bozo raised his left hand


----------



## GISMYS

Brain357 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUSH INVADED IRAQ and stayed there for the better part of a term and a half only to hand it over to Obama.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes!! ignorant people elected obama who is clueless on everything!!! just clueless!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?
Click to expand...


THE PEOPLE IN IRAQ HAD THEIR FIRST ELECTIONS=FREEDOM AT LAST,TERRORIST IN AFGAN WERE ON THE RUN BUT OBAMA GAVE IT ALL AWAY AND WASTED OUR TROOPS LIVES AND OUR $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ IN SYRIA PUTIN BLUFFED obama down and 130,000+ syrian lives lost and more dieing each day!!!


----------



## pvsi

namvet said:


> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> smell what you shovel
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin appeared Saturday to dismiss warnings from world leaders to avoid military intervention in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, even amid growing evidence that pro-Russian forces were already in control of the region.
Click to expand...

1. Are you aware that Ukraine had presidential elections, and the president won?
2. Are you aware that the protests were over elected president not signing a trade agreement with bankrupted EU nations which encourage protesters because they want to suck off another nation?
And who is US? ANOTHER nation that is deep in debt, and in my vocabulary indebted nations should worry about straightening out their debt instead of sticking their noses elsewhere.


----------



## bianco

Fear not;

"The Monk" has spoken [no doubt after having been talking on the special phone with certain friends overseas].

Ukraine: Tony Abbott tells Russia to 'back off'




> Prime Minister Tony Abbott has warned Russian President Vladimir Putin to "back off" from invading neighbouring Ukraine.
> 
> On Saturday Putin won parliamentary approval to send troops into the Ukraine - a direct rebuff to Western leaders, including US President Barack Obama, who repeatedly urged Russia not to intervene. Unmarked troops &#8211; some in vehicles with Russian number plates - have already seized Crimea, an isolated peninsula on the Black Sea.
> 
> "This is very, very concerning and I think that every Australian, and people right around the world, will be thinking: hands off the Ukraine," Mr Abbott told Channel Ten's Bolt Report on Sunday morning. "This is not the kind of action of a friend and neighbour and I think Russia should back off."
> 
> Mr Abbott said he understands the issue will be discussed "urgently" by the members of the United Nations Security Council, including Australia.
> 
> "Plainly, this is unacceptable behaviour," Mr Abbott said. "You cannot just cross the border of another country with military force, with aggressive intent."


----------



## Two Thumbs

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News



if you are going to lie, don't post a link

from your link;

According to the Kremlin, Putin told Obama that Russia reserves the right to defend its interests in the Crimea region and the Russian-speaking people who live there.
"President Obama made clear that Russia's continued violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity would negatively impact Russia's standing in the international community," according to a statement released by the White House.


in other words, Putin told obama to go fuck himself and obama said I'm telling the UN on you, ya big meanie.


wish you were right though


----------



## GISMYS

pvsi said:


> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> smell what you shovel
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin appeared Saturday to dismiss warnings from world leaders to avoid military intervention in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, even amid growing evidence that pro-Russian forces were already in control of the region.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1. Are you aware that Ukraine had presidential elections, and the president won?
> 2. Are you aware that the protests were over elected president not signing a trade agreement with bankrupted EU nations which encourage protesters because they want to suck off another nation?
> And who is US? ANOTHER nation that is deep in debt, and in my vocabulary indebted nations should worry about straightening out their debt instead of sticking their noses elsewhere.
Click to expand...


yes!!! You will get your wish soon=one world goverment and one world religion with the anti-christ as your leader!!!


----------



## Brain357

GISMYS said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes!! ignorant people elected obama who is clueless on everything!!! just clueless!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THE PEOPLE IN IRAQ HAD THEIR FIRST ELECTIONS=FREEDOM AT LAST,TERRORIST IN AFGAN WERE ON THE RUN BUT OBAMA GAVE IT ALL AWAY AND WASTED OUR TROOPS LIVES AND OUR $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ IN SYRIA PUTIN BLUFFED obama down and 130,000+ syrian lives lost and more dieing each day!!!
Click to expand...


You really think forced democracy is going to last?  I hope so, but have my doubts.  You think Afghan is a nice democracy too?  Syria is a civil war, how do we fit into that?  Want to talk terrorists?  Think of how many those stupid wars have created.  The right constantly talks about how we are broke and we need to cut everything.  Then an opportunity for war comes around and I guess we are rich again.  What a joke.


----------



## CaféAuLait

GISMYS said:


> CaféAuLait;8706317 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your link goes to this story:
> 
> *U.S. condemns Russia's 'invasion and occupation'*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to the Kremlin, *Putin told Obama that Russia reserves the right to defend its interests in the Crimea *region and the Russian-speaking people who live there....
> 
> Russian President Vladimir *Putin appeared Saturday to dismiss warnings from world leaders to avoid military intervention in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, even amid growing evidence that pro-Russian forces were already in control of the region*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kerry condemns Russia's 'invasion' of Ukraine - CNN.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> another "peace in our time"????? The RUSSIAN INVASION IS JUST GETTING STARTED!!! WAKE UP!!
Click to expand...


Perhaps you quoted the wrong person? I was merely showing the OP's claim was an outright lie.


----------



## pvsi

GISMYS said:


> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> namvet said:
> 
> 
> 
> smell what you shovel
> 
> Russian President Vladimir Putin appeared Saturday to dismiss warnings from world leaders to avoid military intervention in Ukraine's Crimean peninsula, even amid growing evidence that pro-Russian forces were already in control of the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Are you aware that Ukraine had presidential elections, and the president won?
> 2. Are you aware that the protests were over elected president not signing a trade agreement with bankrupted EU nations which encourage protesters because they want to suck off another nation?
> And who is US? ANOTHER nation that is deep in debt, and in my vocabulary indebted nations should worry about straightening out their debt instead of sticking their noses elsewhere.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yes!!! You will get your wish soon=one world goverment and one world religion with the anti-christ as your leader!!!
Click to expand...

You're switching the subject but good, only why anti Christ? I'm the one who was born on December 25th, and I'm the one who never started a fight in my life, and I'm the one who preaches peace, who is not afraid to talk and meet with any so called "enemies".


----------



## GISMYS

Brain357 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE PEOPLE IN IRAQ HAD THEIR FIRST ELECTIONS=FREEDOM AT LAST,TERRORIST IN AFGAN WERE ON THE RUN BUT OBAMA GAVE IT ALL AWAY AND WASTED OUR TROOPS LIVES AND OUR $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ IN SYRIA PUTIN BLUFFED obama down and 130,000+ syrian lives lost and more dieing each day!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really think forced democracy is going to last?  I hope so, but have my doubts.  You think Afghan is a nice democracy too?  Syria is a civil war, how do we fit into that?  Want to talk terrorists?  Think of how many those stupid wars have created.  The right constantly talks about how we are broke and we need to cut everything.  Then an opportunity for war comes around and I guess we are rich again.  What a joke.
Click to expand...

======================We fight terrorists on their land or ours.
the next 9/11 type attack may take out a city!!!


----------



## RoadVirus

> Mr Abbott said he understands the issue will be discussed "urgently" by the members of the United Nations Security Council, including Australia.



The UN's response oughta be as hilarious as Obama's response.


----------



## Brain357

GISMYS said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> THE PEOPLE IN IRAQ HAD THEIR FIRST ELECTIONS=FREEDOM AT LAST,TERRORIST IN AFGAN WERE ON THE RUN BUT OBAMA GAVE IT ALL AWAY AND WASTED OUR TROOPS LIVES AND OUR $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ IN SYRIA PUTIN BLUFFED obama down and 130,000+ syrian lives lost and more dieing each day!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think forced democracy is going to last?  I hope so, but have my doubts.  You think Afghan is a nice democracy too?  Syria is a civil war, how do we fit into that?  Want to talk terrorists?  Think of how many those stupid wars have created.  The right constantly talks about how we are broke and we need to cut everything.  Then an opportunity for war comes around and I guess we are rich again.  What a joke.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ======================We fight terrorists on their land or ours.
> the next 9/11 type attack may take out a city!!!
Click to expand...


All we do with these wars is create terrorists.  If we stopped sticking our nose in everyone's business they would have no reason to hate us.  Our foreign policy for many years now has been a disaster.  Constantly propping up one dictator or another.  Of course people start hating us.


----------



## Steven_R

Brain357 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> obama says,"Putin you do as you please as I will not allow the USA to help Ukraine,I  ill di as i did in IRAQ,AFGAN AND SYRIA=CUT AND RUN!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting out of Iraq and staying out of Syria are a couple of the best things Obama has done.  Sooner we get out of Afgan the better.  I love how the right wants spending cuts except for when it comes to pointless wars.
Click to expand...


Obama wanted to get into Syria last year. Both the Republicans and Democrats in Congress shot Obama down. Don't give Obama credit for not getting us into another war just because he didn't get his way.


----------



## bodecea

Right wing saber rattling...what a surprise.


----------



## blackhawk

Brain357 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUSH INVADED IRAQ and stayed there for the better part of a term and a half only to hand it over to Obama.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes!! ignorant people elected obama who is clueless on everything!!! just clueless!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?
Click to expand...


Bush did not start the Afghanistan war that was started by Bin Laden officially on 9-11-2001 but in reality it had been going on before Bush ever came into office with the first WTC attack, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, and embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania it took the 2001 attack for the nation to finally wake up and realize war had been declared on us. While the Iraq war was a mistake we did have Iraq in a position to have a good chance of being a stable democracy by the time Bush left office but the Obama administration could not work out a status of forces extension agreement and all our troops were pulled out creating a power vacuum which has been filled by Al-Qaeda returning and radicals being backed by Iran. It's fair to criticize the Bush administration for the Iraq decision but that decision does not make sitting on the sideline and taking a almost isolationist tone to international problems a wise one.


----------



## GISMYS

TYPICAL LIBERAL NON-THINKER!!!==IF we just be nice to all the bad guys they will love us!!!===IGNORANT IDIOTS!


----------



## bianco

Russia needs to think carefully about what it's doing;

Australia?Russia relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

_Peter the Great was familiar with New Holland through his connections with the Dutch, and the Empire in the 18th century tried several times, unsuccessfully, to reach the Australian continent.[2]

*Hagemeister and the ship's officers were extended the utmost courtesy by Governor William Bligh, with the Governor inviting the Russians to Government House for dinner and a ball.[5] *_

______________________________________________________
***********************************************

Russia Seeks Package of Trade Agreements With U.S. - Bloomberg

______________________________________________________
***********************************************

Trade between Russia and UK growing at over 20 percent a year - News - News - Voice of Russia UK, Voice of Russia - UK Edition


----------



## Brain357

GISMYS said:


> TYPICAL LIBERAL NON-THINKER!!!==IF we just be nice to all the bad guys they will love us!!!===IGNORANT IDIOTS!



Is Ron Paul a liberal?  We've seen what years of doing the opposite has done?  You calling our foreign policy successful?


----------



## skye

Russia doesnt have to think shit....


f***  Obama   

f*** everybody 

this is all about strength ...

how stupid are you?   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## GISMYS

brain357 said:


> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> typical liberal non-thinker!!!==if we just be nice to all the bad guys they will love us!!!===ignorant idiots!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is ron paul a liberal?  We've seen what years of doing the opposite has done?  You calling our foreign policy successful?
Click to expand...


no more 9/11 attacks!!! Why??? Answer we took the fight to them!!! Duh!!!


----------



## Brain357

blackhawk said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes!! ignorant people elected obama who is clueless on everything!!! just clueless!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bush did not start the Afghanistan war that was started by Bin Laden officially on 9-11-2001 but in reality it had been going on before Bush ever came into office with the first WTC attack, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, and embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania it took the 2001 attack for the nation to finally wake up and realize war had been declared on us. While the Iraq war was a mistake we did have Iraq in a position to have a good chance of being a stable democracy by the time Bush left office but the Obama administration could not work out a status of forces extension agreement and all our troops were pulled out creating a power vacuum which has been filled by Al-Qaeda returning and radicals being backed by Iran. It's fair to criticize the Bush administration for the Iraq decision but that decision does not make sitting on the sideline and taking a almost isolationist tone to international problems a wise one.
Click to expand...



Bin Laden wasn't the leader of Afghanistan.  Heck for all we know he was in Pakistan the whole time.  We didn't have to start a huge war just to kill Bin Laden, Obama showed that.  Most of the terrorists were Saudi's, so we attack Afghanistan?


----------



## bianco

RoadVirus said:


> Mr Abbott said he understands the issue will be discussed "urgently" by the members of the United Nations Security Council, including Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN's response oughta be as hilarious as Obama's response.
Click to expand...


The UN might decide to blockade Russia...which won't be a laughing matter for it.


----------



## Brain357

GISMYS said:


> brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gismys said:
> 
> 
> 
> typical liberal non-thinker!!!==if we just be nice to all the bad guys they will love us!!!===ignorant idiots!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is ron paul a liberal?  We've seen what years of doing the opposite has done?  You calling our foreign policy successful?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no more 9/11 attacks!!! Why??? Answer we took the fight to them!!! Duh!!!
Click to expand...


Have we lost more lives in 9/11 or in the wars after?


----------



## hjmick

This is a joke thread, right? Satire... Right? It is, isn't it...?


----------



## GISMYS

Brain357 said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush did not start the Afghanistan war that was started by Bin Laden officially on 9-11-2001 but in reality it had been going on before Bush ever came into office with the first WTC attack, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, and embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania it took the 2001 attack for the nation to finally wake up and realize war had been declared on us. While the Iraq war was a mistake we did have Iraq in a position to have a good chance of being a stable democracy by the time Bush left office but the Obama administration could not work out a status of forces extension agreement and all our troops were pulled out creating a power vacuum which has been filled by Al-Qaeda returning and radicals being backed by Iran. It's fair to criticize the Bush administration for the Iraq decision but that decision does not make sitting on the sideline and taking a almost isolationist tone to international problems a wise one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bin Laden wasn't the leader of Afghanistan.  Heck for all we know he was in Pakistan the whole time.  We didn't have to start a huge war just to kill Bin Laden, Obama showed that.  Most of the terrorists were Saudi's, so we attack Afghanistan?
Click to expand...


no more 9/11 attacks!!! Why??? Answer we took the fight to them!!! Duh!!! 
NOW YOU WANT THE OLD HAG BIMBO BARFLY BILLARY!!! ROFLMAO!


----------



## skye

bianco said:


> RoadVirus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Abbott said he understands the issue will be discussed "urgently" by the members of the United Nations Security Council, including Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN's response oughta be as hilarious as Obama's response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN might decide to blockade Russia...which won't be a laughing matter for it.
Click to expand...



what's your point?

the UN?  LOL
the pathetic UN?
give 
us a bloody
break!


----------



## Brain357

GISMYS said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bush did not start the Afghanistan war that was started by Bin Laden officially on 9-11-2001 but in reality it had been going on before Bush ever came into office with the first WTC attack, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, and embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania it took the 2001 attack for the nation to finally wake up and realize war had been declared on us. While the Iraq war was a mistake we did have Iraq in a position to have a good chance of being a stable democracy by the time Bush left office but the Obama administration could not work out a status of forces extension agreement and all our troops were pulled out creating a power vacuum which has been filled by Al-Qaeda returning and radicals being backed by Iran. It's fair to criticize the Bush administration for the Iraq decision but that decision does not make sitting on the sideline and taking a almost isolationist tone to international problems a wise one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bin Laden wasn't the leader of Afghanistan.  Heck for all we know he was in Pakistan the whole time.  We didn't have to start a huge war just to kill Bin Laden, Obama showed that.  Most of the terrorists were Saudi's, so we attack Afghanistan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> no more 9/11 attacks!!! Why??? Answer we took the fight to them!!! Duh!!!
> NOW YOU WANT THE OLD HAG BIMBO BARFLY BILLARY!!! ROFLMAO!
Click to expand...


How many lives has taking the fight to them taken?  You think we have ever been winning that fight or are we just making more terrorists?


----------



## bianco

skye said:


> Russia doesnt have to think shit....



It does really...it cannot live alone in today's world.

Putin might be able to wrestle tigers and hunt on horseback, but even he can't supply the Russian nation with all the food, aluminium, iron ore etc etc etc it needs to survive.


----------



## skye

bianco said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia doesnt have to think shit....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does really...it cannot live alone in today's world.
> 
> Putin might be able to wrestle tigers and hunt on horseback, but even he can't supply the Russian nation with all the food, aluminium, iron ore etc etc etc it needs to survive.
Click to expand...


oh fuck off get lost..respectfully of course.


----------



## bianco

skye said:


> bianco said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoadVirus said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN's response oughta be as hilarious as Obama's response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN might decide to blockade Russia...which won't be a laughing matter for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> what's your point?
> 
> the UN?  LOL
> the pathetic UN?
> give
> us a bloody
> break!
Click to expand...


Russia relies on imports for its survival.
Pretty lonely in today's world with no friends.


----------



## ScienceRocks

here's more of my prediction. This will be worked out and* peace *will be had within a few days. It's quite possible that tiny eastern part of the Ukraine maybe allowed to join Russia. BUT there's not going to be any major battles or blood from this.

A year from now the Ukraine and Russia will be trading as friends again.


----------



## tyroneweaver

Matthew said:


> Obama should invite Putin to the white house for a few beers and talk about peace!



bring em peace pipe smokem bong


----------



## blackhawk

Brain357 said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush did not start the Afghanistan war that was started by Bin Laden officially on 9-11-2001 but in reality it had been going on before Bush ever came into office with the first WTC attack, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, and embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania it took the 2001 attack for the nation to finally wake up and realize war had been declared on us. While the Iraq war was a mistake we did have Iraq in a position to have a good chance of being a stable democracy by the time Bush left office but the Obama administration could not work out a status of forces extension agreement and all our troops were pulled out creating a power vacuum which has been filled by Al-Qaeda returning and radicals being backed by Iran. It's fair to criticize the Bush administration for the Iraq decision but that decision does not make sitting on the sideline and taking a almost isolationist tone to international problems a wise one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bin Laden wasn't the leader of Afghanistan.  Heck for all we know he was in Pakistan the whole time.  We didn't have to start a huge war just to kill Bin Laden, Obama showed that.  Most of the terrorists were Saudi's, so we attack Afghanistan?
Click to expand...


No the Taliban were the leaders in Afghanistan they gave Bin Laden sanctuary in Afghanistan where he set up training camps for Al-Qaeda for which all the attacks I mentioned was where the training and planning took place so given that it would have been highly illogical to think you would have found Bin Laden in either Pakistan or Saudi Arabia after the 9-11 attacks.


----------



## Brain357

blackhawk said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bush did not start the Afghanistan war that was started by Bin Laden officially on 9-11-2001 but in reality it had been going on before Bush ever came into office with the first WTC attack, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, and embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania it took the 2001 attack for the nation to finally wake up and realize war had been declared on us. While the Iraq war was a mistake we did have Iraq in a position to have a good chance of being a stable democracy by the time Bush left office but the Obama administration could not work out a status of forces extension agreement and all our troops were pulled out creating a power vacuum which has been filled by Al-Qaeda returning and radicals being backed by Iran. It's fair to criticize the Bush administration for the Iraq decision but that decision does not make sitting on the sideline and taking a almost isolationist tone to international problems a wise one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bin Laden wasn't the leader of Afghanistan.  Heck for all we know he was in Pakistan the whole time.  We didn't have to start a huge war just to kill Bin Laden, Obama showed that.  Most of the terrorists were Saudi's, so we attack Afghanistan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No the Taliban were the leaders in Afghanistan they gave Bin Laden sanctuary in Afghanistan where he set up training camps for Al-Qaeda for which all the attacks I mentioned was where the training and planning took place so given that it would have been highly illogical to think you would have found Bin Laden in either Pakistan or Saudi Arabia after the 9-11 attacks.
Click to expand...


Clearly they didn't find him in Afghanistan.


----------



## Nutz

Matthew said:


> Steven_R said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's tell the world that we will remain neutral!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree! We'll have peace in our time!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If we stay out of it instead of throwing gas on it...Maybe Putin will just take eastern Ukraine without a full scale war.
> 
> Sounds far better then a war that gets us bombed.
Click to expand...


Yes, lets just bend over and hope Putin uses a little lube!  Are you familiar with appeasement and just letting Hitler do as he willed?


----------



## bianco

skye said:


> bianco said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia doesnt have to think shit....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does really...it cannot live alone in today's world.
> 
> Putin might be able to wrestle tigers and hunt on horseback, but even he can't supply the Russian nation with all the food, aluminium, iron ore etc etc etc it needs to survive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh fuck off get lost..respectfully of course.
Click to expand...



No Harvard degree needed for this one either.


Russia Imports | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast | Calendar

_Russia main imports are food _


----------



## blackhawk

Brain357 said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bin Laden wasn't the leader of Afghanistan.  Heck for all we know he was in Pakistan the whole time.  We didn't have to start a huge war just to kill Bin Laden, Obama showed that.  Most of the terrorists were Saudi's, so we attack Afghanistan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No the Taliban were the leaders in Afghanistan they gave Bin Laden sanctuary in Afghanistan where he set up training camps for Al-Qaeda for which all the attacks I mentioned was where the training and planning took place so given that it would have been highly illogical to think you would have found Bin Laden in either Pakistan or Saudi Arabia after the 9-11 attacks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Clearly they didn't find him in Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Obviously not but immediately after the 9-11 attacks it was the most logical place to expect him to be it was ten years later he was found in Pakistan and we have no idea how long he had been there.


----------



## R.C. Christian

Wow, nine pages of stupid. 

My hat is off to the incompetent necons behind the curtains at the White House and Pentagram who made this ridiculous mess possible. Nothing like fucking a country up and blaming it on the other guy.


----------



## Kondor3

R.C. Christian said:


> Wow, nine pages of stupid.
> 
> My hat is off to the incompetent necons behind the curtains at the White House and Pentagram who made this ridiculous mess possible. Nothing like fucking a country up and blaming it on the other guy.


Wow...

Two lines of only marginally understandable metaphor...

Speaking plainly, with some particulars, might serve the audience better, in this instance.


----------



## pvsi

hjmick said:


> This is a joke thread, right? Satire... Right? It is, isn't it...?


It is amazing you have to ask.


----------



## Avatar4321

War is here. We now have a choice to make: We repent of our sins or we destroy one another in bloodshed and carnage unseen in nearly 50 years.


----------



## francoHFW

Time for democracy and good feelings after some diplomacy, and Crimea and some of eastern Uk may leave...


----------



## Steven_R

Avatar4321 said:


> War is here. We now have a choice to make: We repent of our sins or we destroy one another in bloodshed and carnage unseen in nearly 50 years.



Can't we do both?


----------



## Avatar4321

Matthew said:


> here's more of my prediction. This will be worked out and* peace *will be had within a few days. It's quite possible that tiny eastern part of the Ukraine maybe allowed to join Russia. BUT there's not going to be any major battles or blood from this.
> 
> A year from now the Ukraine and Russia will be trading as friends again.



Friends? They haven't been friends in well over a century. There has always been tensions between Russia and the Ukraine, Particularly when they were ruling over them.


----------



## Avatar4321

francoHFW said:


> Time for democracy and good feelings after some diplomacy, and Crimea and some of eastern Uk may leave...



How did Democracy and good feelings fair after diplomacy ceded Austria to Hitler?


----------



## francoHFW

The Ruskies already WERE in Crimea- why can't they be more like the Czechs and Slovaks lol...Thank god war mongering chickenhawk Pubs aren't anywhere near this....


----------



## francoHFW

Hitler annexed Austria, no diplomacy involved. Austria loved it...


----------



## hjmick

pvsi said:


> hjmick said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a joke thread, right? Satire... Right? It is, isn't it...?
> 
> 
> 
> It is amazing you have to ask.
Click to expand...



No, it's not...


----------



## Kosh

candycorn said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> obama says,"Putin you do as you please as I will not allow the USA to help Ukraine,I  ill di as i did in IRAQ,AFGAN AND SYRIA=CUT AND RUN!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting out of Iraq and staying out of Syria are a couple of the best things Obama has done.  Sooner we get out of Afgan the better.  I love how the right wants spending cuts except for when it comes to pointless wars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also staying out of Libya.  The President handled this one as well as can be expected.  There are places where we have influence and interest.  We have neither in the Ukraine.
> 
> I love the moron who said we'd have war in a very short time and the Russians will take Poland.
Click to expand...


Got to love far left revisionism.

They ignore the fact that Obama got us involved in a real illegal war in Libya.


----------



## Kosh

blackhawk said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bush did not start the Afghanistan war that was started by Bin Laden officially on 9-11-2001 but in reality it had been going on before Bush ever came into office with the first WTC attack, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, and embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania it took the 2001 attack for the nation to finally wake up and realize war had been declared on us. While the Iraq war was a mistake we did have Iraq in a position to have a good chance of being a stable democracy by the time Bush left office but the Obama administration could not work out a status of forces extension agreement and all our troops were pulled out creating a power vacuum which has been filled by Al-Qaeda returning and radicals being backed by Iran. It's fair to criticize the Bush administration for the Iraq decision but that decision does not make sitting on the sideline and taking a almost isolationist tone to international problems a wise one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bin Laden wasn't the leader of Afghanistan.  Heck for all we know he was in Pakistan the whole time.  We didn't have to start a huge war just to kill Bin Laden, Obama showed that.  Most of the terrorists were Saudi's, so we attack Afghanistan?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No the Taliban were the leaders in Afghanistan they gave Bin Laden sanctuary in Afghanistan where he set up training camps for Al-Qaeda for which all the attacks I mentioned was where the training and planning took place so given that it would have been highly illogical to think you would have found Bin Laden in either Pakistan or Saudi Arabia after the 9-11 attacks.
Click to expand...


Not to mention that Bin Laden declared war on the west and the US in 1996.


----------



## whitehall

I doubt if Russia intended to invade the US. What about the people of Ukraine? Did Hussein and Putin fix that?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Neo-cons, you have earned the distrust that Americans overwhelmingly feel for your overseas internationalist adventures.

Your failed liberal gutter trash military adventures are over for a generation.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

When does it become our business? After Putin gobbles up the Asian break away republics? Perhaps after he takes the southern ones? Maybe we should wait till he invades Poland?

We have a binding treaty with the Ukraine which stipulates if they are invaded we will defend them. So by advocating we do nothing you all support the paper tiger claim. We will prove that at least under Obama we do NOT live up to our treaties. Which means perhaps Putin won't need to invade some Countries, he will just threaten them and knowing no one will help they will fold.

The message we send to our allies and our enemies is that we have not got the ability, the strength of will or resolve to uphold our treaties. This will embolden more then Russia. China sees our inaction and our refusal to defend an ally. They already want Taiwan and the South Pacific. It emboldens them to use force for what they want because they will assume the US won't actually act.

Our allies in the Pacific will know we failed to act and will be less likely to depend on our treaties with them as well.

Great plan. We are on the road to war if we do not act. Better to test Putin now then later. Now he may blink later he will have had so many successes he simply will not believe we would do anything. As will China.


----------



## Avatar4321

francoHFW said:


> Hitler annexed Austria, no diplomacy involved. Austria loved it...



Yeah National Socialism was great to all of the people in Austria....[/sarcasm]


----------



## Kosh

JakeStarkey said:


> Neo-cons, you have earned the distrust that Americans overwhelmingly feel for your overseas internationalist adventures.
> 
> Your failed liberal gutter trash military adventures are over for a generation.



You see Obama as a Neo-Con?


----------



## Avatar4321

JakeStarkey said:


> Neo-cons, you have earned the distrust that Americans overwhelmingly feel for your overseas internationalist adventures.
> 
> Your failed liberal gutter trash military adventures are over for a generation.



You realize that Progressives have had control of the country for quite a long time, right?

And lo and behold we are on the verge of war, again.


----------



## Avatar4321

bodecea said:


> Right wing saber rattling...what a surprise.



let me see if I understand you correctly:

Left wing totalitarian Putin invades an ally and that is RW saber rattling?

No sabers to rattle, war has started. It's only a matter of time before we are involved because of the treaties we've signed.

The sad thing is we dont have the foundation we need to fight another one until we clean ourselves up.


----------



## Avatar4321

bianco said:


> RoadVirus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Abbott said he understands the issue will be discussed "urgently" by the members of the United Nations Security Council, including Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN's response oughta be as hilarious as Obama's response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN might decide to blockade Russia...which won't be a laughing matter for it.
Click to expand...


Really? how the hell are they going to do that when Russia can VETO it?


----------



## Avatar4321

bianco said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia doesnt have to think shit....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does really...it cannot live alone in today's world.
> 
> Putin might be able to wrestle tigers and hunt on horseback, but even he can't supply the Russian nation with all the food, aluminium, iron ore etc etc etc it needs to survive.
Click to expand...


that's the point of taking over the Ukraine, to get control over the food.

If you haven't noticed, Russia has a heck of alot more resources than say every country on the planet since it's the largest.


----------



## Avatar4321

RetiredGySgt said:


> When does it become our business? After Putin gobbles up the Asian break away republics? Perhaps after he takes the southern ones? Maybe we should wait till he invades Poland?
> 
> We have a binding treaty with the Ukraine which stipulates if they are invaded we will defend them. So by advocating we do nothing you all support the paper tiger claim. We will prove that at least under Obama we do NOT live up to our treaties. Which means perhaps Putin won't need to invade some Countries, he will just threaten them and knowing no one will help they will fold.
> 
> The message we send to our allies and our enemies is that we have not got the ability, the strength of will or resolve to uphold our treaties. This will embolden more then Russia. China sees our inaction and our refusal to defend an ally. They already want Taiwan and the South Pacific. It emboldens them to use force for what they want because they will assume the US won't actually act.
> 
> Our allies in the Pacific will know we failed to act and will be less likely to depend on our treaties with them as well.
> 
> Great plan. We are on the road to war if we do not act. Better to test Putin now then later. Now he may blink later he will have had so many successes he simply will not believe we would do anything. As will China.



I completely agree with your assessment about what is about to happen. problem is we aren't the nation we used to be. We need to cleanse the inward vessel.


----------



## francoHFW

Avatar4321 said:


> francoHFW said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hitler annexed Austria, no diplomacy involved. Austria loved it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah National Socialism was great to all of the people in Austria....[/sarcasm]
Click to expand...


Not great for Jews- but Hitler was an Austrian and they were into it- often more than the Germans...as usual, the GOP dupes are clueless I see...


----------



## Katzndogz

President  Putin spends 90 minutes detailing all the dirt he has on obama that he got from Snowden and says "You gonna shut up now aren't you Bammy Boy?  obama says "Yessir Boss anything you say Boss."


----------



## francoHFW

You must be thinking of the Munich Agreement, Chamberlain and Deladier, the SUDETENLAND AND czechoslovakia...


----------



## The Rabbi

Brain357 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Obama avoided war. By surrendering.  We could have made the entire Cold War irrelevant simply by adopting communism and bowing to the Soviet Masters.  Doubtless many of Obama's influences advocated exactly that policy.
> In reality Obama is a joke.  He has no credibility.  He will take no concrete steps nor exhibit leadership.  And the idependent country of the Ukraine will return to the soviet orbit as Putin rebuilds the Soviet Empire.
> More enslavement, yes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have no place getting involved in this situation at all.  Ukraine wanted to be closer to the European Union so it's their problem.  Why would Russia want Ukraine anyhow?  Last I heard they were broke.  Tell Gaddafi and Bin Laden that Obama has no credibility.
Click to expand...


You're such an ignorant sap.
How about the people of the Ukraine, who are suffering a virtual invasion of their country by RUssia?  Yeah, you dont give a shit about them, we get it.
Why don't you ask Assad or Khamanei if Obama has credibility?  Because we already know what Putin thinks.


----------



## Katzndogz

The Russian speaking Ukrainians want Russian forces to eject the EU banker that usurped the elected president.


----------



## bianco

Avatar4321 said:


> bianco said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoadVirus said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN's response oughta be as hilarious as Obama's response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN might decide to blockade Russia...which won't be a laughing matter for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? how the hell are they going to do that when Russia can VETO it?
Click to expand...


Good question.
Hmmm, maybe the UN needs to be bypassed.

Do you know the name of the treaty the US signed to protect Ukraine?

What do you suggest be done, an armed invasion?
An armed invasion that would see most of the invading US led troops perish.


----------



## thereisnospoon

pvsi said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a joke?
> Uniformed men wearing no rank or insignia are occupying parts of Ukraine as we discuss this.
> Obama does not concern Putin.
> Putin has rationalized his actions by stating his military has crossed into Ukraine to "protect ethnic Russians".
> Total bullshit. Putin wants Ukraine back under control of Russia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah where was Putin to save America when Occupy wall street broke out. by the way Ukraine had elections, so if dingbats don't like it, they should move to Israel or Saudi Arabia (US allies)
Click to expand...


What the fuck are you yammering about? Putin? OWS?
Kinda not seeing the connection.
Obama is not going to do anything. 
What can he do? Nothing. Sanctions? No. Any movement in that direction has to be approved by a unanimous vote by the UN Security Council. A group of which Russia is a member. 
Obama could seize Russian government assets that are here in the US. 
He could kick out a few Attaches from the Embassy in New York.


----------



## The Rabbi

He wont do anything.  He will call for a vote at the full UN condemning Russia.  He will announce cooperation with Europe to isolate Russia.  Two week hence the administration will announce an initiative to make gay marriage the law of the land.


----------



## Kosh

Avatar4321 said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neo-cons, you have earned the distrust that Americans overwhelmingly feel for your overseas internationalist adventures.
> 
> Your failed liberal gutter trash military adventures are over for a generation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You realize that Progressives have had control of the country for quite a long time, right?
> 
> And lo and behold we are on the verge of war, again.
Click to expand...


There is no such link between the far left and progressives other than the far left trying to use that term to hide their true actions.

Although Republican and progressivism have a very long history, so are you talking about Republican Progressivism?


----------



## Mr. H.

Root'n toot'n Putin....


----------



## ScienceRocks

There isn't going to be any war. The government of Ukraine isn't dumb as they know Russia will rip them apart if they tried. It is like walking into a den of wolfs and one wrong move = you're fucked.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Katzndogz said:


> The Russian speaking Ukrainians want Russian forces to eject the EU banker that usurped the elected president.



I checked the ethnicity and other demographics of Ukraine.
24% of the population speaks Russian.
17% identify themselves as ethnic Russians.
So it seems this Russian "thing" is a bunch of hooey.
Yes, you are correct that ethnic Russians living in Ukraine would prefer to be aligned with Moscow.
The majority of Ukrainians want nothing to do with Putin the thug.


----------



## Katzndogz

Assad knows obama has no credibility.


----------



## whitehall

I recall that JFK was applauded by the international drooling media for his fine speech in front of the Berlin Wall and then he went home and forgot about the Germans who were shot in the back by Russian occupation troops. Barry Hussein is apparently a hero to the left by kissing Putin's ass while his troops invade Ukraine.


----------



## Avatar4321

The Rabbi said:


> He wont do anything.  He will call for a vote at the full UN condemning Russia.  He will announce cooperation with Europe to isolate Russia.  Two week hence the administration will announce an initiative to make gay marriage the law of the land.



UN is about to be made useless. With Russia on the security council they are DOA.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

bianco said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bianco said:
> 
> 
> 
> The UN might decide to blockade Russia...which won't be a laughing matter for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? how the hell are they going to do that when Russia can VETO it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good question.
> Hmmm, maybe the UN needs to be bypassed.
> 
> Do you know the name of the treaty the US signed to protect Ukraine?
> 
> What do you suggest be done, an armed invasion?
> An armed invasion that would see most of the invading US led troops perish.
Click to expand...


We dispatch the 82nd Airborne to Ukraine BEFORE Putin Invades the rest of the Country. We then ship on a slower method 3 more divisions. And air forces. We will not be starting a war as we are allies with the Ukraine. Once we have boots on the ground we see if Putin is dumb enough to start a war.

As for Crimea we leave that to the Ukraine to decide what to do about it.

We pressure NATO to send troops as well.

Right now we are doing nothing. Putin is free to invade the main part of the Ukraine at his convenience. And he knows we won't do shit about it.

Again we fail to act and Putin will grab more Countries and China may invade Taiwan believing we will not act. You WANT a war? Do nothing.


----------



## The Rabbi

Matthew said:


> There isn't going to be any war. The government of Ukraine isn't dumb as they know Russia will rip them apart if they tried. It is like walking into a den of wolfs and one wrong move = you're fucked.



So they're going to sit there and let Russia take them over?  No, I dont think so.
Recall Ukraine has nukes too.


----------



## francoHFW

58 per cent of the Crimeans are Russians, and their Black Sea naval base is there- They didn't invade, they're already there. Remain calm, fear mongered, ignorant Foxbots...


----------



## Kosh

Avatar4321 said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> He wont do anything.  He will call for a vote at the full UN condemning Russia.  He will announce cooperation with Europe to isolate Russia.  Two week hence the administration will announce an initiative to make gay marriage the law of the land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN is about to be made useless. With Russia on the security council they are DOA.
Click to expand...


Actually Russia and China will block any efforts and possibly France.

And the UN has been worthless for a very long time.


----------



## Kosh

The Rabbi said:


> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't going to be any war. The government of Ukraine isn't dumb as they know Russia will rip them apart if they tried. It is like walking into a den of wolfs and one wrong move = you're fucked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So they're going to sit there and let Russia take them over?  No, I dont think so.
> Recall Ukraine has nukes too.
Click to expand...


Most importantly it is major OIL hub.


----------



## The Rabbi

Kosh said:


> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> He wont do anything.  He will call for a vote at the full UN condemning Russia.  He will announce cooperation with Europe to isolate Russia.  Two week hence the administration will announce an initiative to make gay marriage the law of the land.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UN is about to be made useless. With Russia on the security council they are DOA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually Russia and China will block any efforts and possibly France.
> 
> And the UN has been worthless for a very long time.
Click to expand...


They can only veto in the Security Council.  At the general assembly they cannot.  Of course the GA is worthless, except as propaganda.


----------



## francoHFW

No, Ukraine gave up its nukes to get that 1994 deal.Try and remain calm, hater dupes. CHANGE THE CHANNEL.


----------



## Kosh

The Rabbi said:


> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Avatar4321 said:
> 
> 
> 
> UN is about to be made useless. With Russia on the security council they are DOA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually Russia and China will block any efforts and possibly France.
> 
> And the UN has been worthless for a very long time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They can only veto in the Security Council.  At the general assembly they cannot.  Of course the GA is worthless, except as propaganda.
Click to expand...


Exactly no matter what is decided by the general assembly two of the five will veto it. Thus means the motion will not be carried. The Security Council's five permanent members, have the power to veto any substantive resolution; this allows a permanent member to block adoption of a resolution, but not to prevent or end debate.


----------



## Avorysuds

Man Obama-bots are fucking retarded, almost as retarded as the Bush-bots.


----------



## Nutz

bianco said:


> Do you know the name of the treaty the US signed to protect Ukraine?
> .



The treaty, I think, is the Budapest Memorandum.


----------



## Silhouette

RetiredGySgt said:


> We dispatch the 82nd Airborne to Ukraine BEFORE Putin Invades the rest of the Country. We then ship on a slower method 3 more divisions. And air forces. We will not be starting a war as we are allies with the Ukraine. Once we have boots on the ground we see if Putin is dumb enough to start a war.
> 
> As for Crimea we leave that to the Ukraine to decide what to do about it.
> 
> We pressure NATO to send troops as well.
> 
> Right now we are doing nothing. Putin is free to invade the main part of the Ukraine at his convenience. And he knows we won't do shit about it.
> 
> Again we fail to act and Putin will grab more Countries and China may invade Taiwan believing we will not act. You WANT a war? Do nothing.



What, is your stock in Blackwater plummeting these days?  Need another unsustainable economy-destroying war to boost your portfolio do you?

Leave the US out of it.  I know, Blackwater and Blackwater alone can go take on the Russians in their erstwhile Ukraine territory.  Have fun!


----------



## RetiredGySgt

Silhouette said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> We dispatch the 82nd Airborne to Ukraine BEFORE Putin Invades the rest of the Country. We then ship on a slower method 3 more divisions. And air forces. We will not be starting a war as we are allies with the Ukraine. Once we have boots on the ground we see if Putin is dumb enough to start a war.
> 
> As for Crimea we leave that to the Ukraine to decide what to do about it.
> 
> We pressure NATO to send troops as well.
> 
> Right now we are doing nothing. Putin is free to invade the main part of the Ukraine at his convenience. And he knows we won't do shit about it.
> 
> Again we fail to act and Putin will grab more Countries and China may invade Taiwan believing we will not act. You WANT a war? Do nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What, is your stock in Blackwater plummeting these days?  Need another unsustainable economy-destroying war to boost your portfolio do you?
> 
> Leave the US out of it.  I know, Blackwater and Blackwater alone can go take on the Russians in their erstwhile Ukraine territory.  Have fun!
Click to expand...


If we do nothing and Putin seizes the rest of the Ukraine or simple holds the Crimea you can bet China will notice we failed to defend a treaty obligation to a foreign Nation.

They want Taiwan and the Pacific region around their Country. They will be emboldened and may actually attack Taiwan. Believing that as in the Ukraine, the US won't support a treaty partner.

You want war? Do nothing, it will come in a few months or a couple years as Russia and China get braver and braver because the US does not act.


----------



## Moxie2

candycorn said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> obama says,"Putin you do as you please as I will not allow the USA to help Ukraine,I  ill di as i did in IRAQ,AFGAN AND SYRIA=CUT AND RUN!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting out of Iraq and staying out of Syria are a couple of the best things Obama has done.  Sooner we get out of Afgan the better.  I love how the right wants spending cuts except for when it comes to pointless wars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also staying out of Libya.  The President handled this one as well as can be expected.  There are places where we have influence and interest.  We have neither in the Ukraine.
> 
> I love the moron who said we'd have war in a very short time and the Russians will take Poland.
Click to expand...



You said it best, Obama handled this one as well as can be expected...He did NOTHING.

That's what we can expect from this joke of a "president".

Btw, if I were you, I'd change my avatar before labeling anyone a moron.


----------



## Meathead

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News


----------



## bianco

According to my tv news just now Obama and Putin spoke for 90 minutes by phone.

The tv news stated that;

*"Russian troops were welcomed like conquering heroes". *

"Crimea is 58% Russian nationals"

"A deal was done some time ago for Russia to have its military in Crimea, and Russian ships use Crimean ports".

This seems to be like a civil war rather than an attack on a separate nation...Russia invading Germany for example.


----------



## RetiredGySgt

bianco said:


> According to my tv news just now Obama and Putin spoke for 90 minutes by phone.
> 
> The tv news stated that;
> 
> "Russian troops were welcomed like conquering heroes".
> 
> "Crimea is 58% Russian nationals"
> 
> "A deal was done some time ago for Russia to have its military in Crimea, and Russian ships use Crimean ports".
> 
> This seems to be a civil war rather than an attack on a separate nation...Russia invading Germany for example.



Russia is threatening to invade the main part of the Ukraine which is not Russian nor majority Russian.


----------



## candycorn

Moxie2 said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Getting out of Iraq and staying out of Syria are a couple of the best things Obama has done.  Sooner we get out of Afgan the better.  I love how the right wants spending cuts except for when it comes to pointless wars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also staying out of Libya.  The President handled this one as well as can be expected.  There are places where we have influence and interest.  We have neither in the Ukraine.
> 
> I love the moron who said we'd have war in a very short time and the Russians will take Poland.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You said it best, Obama handled this one as well as can be expected...He did NOTHING.
> 
> That's what we can expect from this joke of a "president".
> 
> Btw, if I were you, I'd change my avatar before labeling anyone a moron.
Click to expand...


Moron.


----------



## bianco

Nutz said:


> bianco said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know the name of the treaty the US signed to protect Ukraine?
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The treaty, I think, is the Budapest Memorandum.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that, I'll look it up.


----------



## bianco

RetiredGySgt said:


> bianco said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to my tv news just now Obama and Putin spoke for 90 minutes by phone.
> 
> The tv news stated that;
> 
> "Russian troops were welcomed like conquering heroes".
> 
> "Crimea is 58% Russian nationals"
> 
> "A deal was done some time ago for Russia to have its military in Crimea, and Russian ships use Crimean ports".
> 
> This seems to be a civil war rather than an attack on a separate nation...Russia invading Germany for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is threatening to invade the main part of the Ukraine which is not Russian nor majority Russian.
Click to expand...


What would you have Obama do?


----------



## RetiredGySgt

bianco said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bianco said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to my tv news just now Obama and Putin spoke for 90 minutes by phone.
> 
> The tv news stated that;
> 
> "Russian troops were welcomed like conquering heroes".
> 
> "Crimea is 58% Russian nationals"
> 
> "A deal was done some time ago for Russia to have its military in Crimea, and Russian ships use Crimean ports".
> 
> This seems to be a civil war rather than an attack on a separate nation...Russia invading Germany for example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is threatening to invade the main part of the Ukraine which is not Russian nor majority Russian.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What would you have Obama do?
Click to expand...


We are obligate by treaty to defend Ukraine, I would send troops. Let Putin start WW3 if he wants.

I would airship in the 82nd and send follow on forces as fast as I could. I would demand Europe do the same as they signed the treaty too. Putin has not invaded the Ukraine proper yet. And if he does there will be a fight.

or do you suggest we abandon allies we agreed to defend because it might be difficult?

What do you think China will do when they see we did not defend the Ukraine? Taiwan would be attacked most likely.


----------



## bianco

RetiredGySgt said:


> bianco said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is threatening to invade the main part of the Ukraine which is not Russian nor majority Russian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you have Obama do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are obligate by treaty to defend Ukraine, I would send troops. Let Putin start WW3 if he wants.
> 
> I would airship in the 82nd and send follow on forces as fast as I could. I would demand Europe do the same as they signed the treaty too. Putin has not invaded the Ukraine proper yet. And if he does there will be a fight.
> 
> or do you suggest we abandon allies we agreed to defend because it might be difficult?
> 
> What do you think China will do when they see we did not defend the Ukraine? Taiwan would be attacked most likely.
Click to expand...


Then Australia!    all that land, that China is already buying up one farm at a time.

Troops?  most if not all of them would be killed?  WWW3?
Best to try European-British/American allies sanctions/boycotts etc first?


----------



## Eugene

I've just made a phone call to my friends and relatives in Odessa (South-eastern city of Ukraine) and Feodosia, Kerch (cities in Crimea)...

That's what people say and feel about so-called invasion: thanks for coming here, save us, we don't want to be ruled by that new nationalistic government which got power in Kiev.

As you can notice, in Kiev about 100 people were killed, but in "invaded by russians" Crimea - none.
Russian troops are now play role of peacemakers, not invaders.

I'm sure UN troops must be sent to Ukraine - european to western and central part of the country and russian to south-eastern.
After that Ukraine should be cleaned out of nationalistic facist terrorists called "The right sector" who were those who killed policemen and civilians in Kiev. Then a new Constitution should be created and approved - the one which declares a federalisation of Ukraine, so that Western&central part of Ukraine, South-Eastern and Crimea were 3 separate states within Ukraine. Each should have their own police, customs and budget. Else it wouldn't be possible for them to have the only government and president as it will never be good for every region.


----------



## bianco

Eugene said:


> I've just made a phone call to my friends and relatives in Odessa (South-eastern city of Ukraine) and Feodosia, Kerch (cities in Crimea)...
> 
> That's what people say and feel about so-called invasion: *thanks for coming here, save us, we don't want to be ruled by that new nationalistic government which got power in Kiev.*
> 
> As you can notice, in Kiev about 100 people were killed, but in "invaded by russians" Crimea - none.
> Russian troops are now play role of peacemakers, not invaders.
> 
> I'm sure UN troops must be sent to Ukraine - european to western and central part of the country and russian to south-eastern.
> After that Ukraine should be cleaned out of *nationalistic facist terrorists called "The right sector" who were those who killed policemen and civilians in Kiev. *
> 
> Then a new Constitution should be created and approved - the one which declares a federalisation of Ukraine, so that Western&central part of Ukraine, South-Eastern and Crimea were 3 separate states within Ukraine. Each should have their own police, customs and budget. Else it wouldn't be possible for them to have the only government and president as it will never be good for every region.




Sounds a lot like "The Arab Spring" in Egypt, when the MuBros took power, then got booted out.

Your proposal seems all good.


----------



## bianco

U.S. Lawmakers See Sanctions Not Troops as Ukraine Response - Bloomberg



> U.S. Lawmakers See Sanctions Not Troops as Ukraine Response
> 
> U.S. lawmakers from both parties urged President Barack Obama to lead an international effort to impose diplomatic and economic sanctions on Russia if it attacks Ukraine, though they stopped short of calling for armed intervention.
> 
> The reaction preceded a 90-minute phone call between U.S. President Barack Obama and Russian President Vladimir Putin today, during which Obama said the U.S. would suspend preparation for an upcoming G-8 meeting in Sochi, Russia, according to a White House statement.
> 
> Obama expressed &#8220;his deep concern over Russia&#8217;s clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity&#8221; in actions Putin&#8217;s government already had taken, the statement said. And it warned that &#8220;Russia&#8217;s continued violation of international law will lead to greater political and economic isolation.&#8221;
> 
> Following through with a boycott of the G-8 meeting, set for June, and the freezing of assets of senior Russian officials are among further actions that Obama should pursue, the U.S. lawmakers said. Some Republicans said the U.S. and Western European allies also should consider suspending Russia from the G-8, a forum of the world&#8217;s seven leading industrialized democracies plus Russia.



Yes, start small and work up to all out war if necessary...could just save many thousands of young US and allies military lives and maimings for life.

Also, all the Russians in London and the rest of the UK could be deported, and their assets frozen...as part of Britain's response.


----------



## LoneLaugher

RetiredGySgt said:


> bianco said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russia is threatening to invade the main part of the Ukraine which is not Russian nor majority Russian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would you have Obama do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are obligate by treaty to defend Ukraine, I would send troops. Let Putin start WW3 if he wants.
> 
> I would airship in the 82nd and send follow on forces as fast as I could. I would demand Europe do the same as they signed the treaty too. Putin has not invaded the Ukraine proper yet. And if he does there will be a fight.
> 
> or do you suggest we abandon allies we agreed to defend because it might be difficult?
> 
> What do you think China will do when they see we did not defend the Ukraine? Taiwan would be attacked most likely.
Click to expand...


Yes! That would be so cool to watch on TV! The only thing that would spoil the fun is having to listen to that Kenyan give speeches about the war. If only we had a real man to give the speeches!


----------



## Eugene

US and EU politics do not want to understand some facts:
- Russia doesn't want to look badly for all other countries and trying to move carefully as everyone in the world still think about Russia as about USSR;
- Russia is not building newUSSR, but is trying to rise its economy which was deeply mixed with the economy of former soviet republics. When EU joins other countries it is called integration, but when Russia does the same it is called building of terrible Russian Empire;
- Ukraine and Russia - is the only nation which was divided by politic affairs about 150 years ago. We still do not know how to identify if you are russian or ukranian... Thousands of families live partially in Ukrain and Russia. As a result we'll never fight to each other.

EU and USA are in war against Russia. Information war. A lot of false information about Russia in american mass media.


----------



## Decus

Eugene said:


> US and EU politics do not want to understand some facts:
> - Russia doesn't want to look badly for all other countries and trying to move carefully as everyone in the world still think about Russia as about USSR;
> - Russia is not building newUSSR, but is trying to rise its economy which was deeply mixed with the economy of former soviet republics. When EU joins other countries it is called integration, but when Russia does the same it is called building of terrible Russian Empire;
> - Ukraine and Russia - is the only nation which was divided by politic affairs about 150 years ago. We still do not know how to identify if you are russian or ukranian... Thousands of families live partially in Ukrain and Russia. As a result we'll never fight to each other.
> 
> EU and USA are in war against Russia. Information war. A lot of false information about Russia in american mass media.



If corruption wasn't the reason Ukrainians were fed up, can you answer one small question - what was Yanukovych's salary as president?

The most surprising thing at Yanukovych?s estate? He has relatively good taste.

.


----------



## SayMyName

skye said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Russian troops take over Ukraine's Crimea region
> 
> Obama will do nothing. And the Russians will grab more countries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crimea always belonged to Russia, but that said, I totally see your point, totally!
> 
> Obama neither is interested nor knows anything  about world politics, that is a known and proven fact by now!
> 
> He is too busy giving entitlements to future voters  and partying with Beyonce!
> 
> It's a sad state of affairs for what was once the most powerful country in the world.
Click to expand...


True, true. Not ever imagining a break-up of the Soviet Union, Nikita Kruschev, the Soviet Premier, gave Crimea to the Ukraine in an administrative shuffle in 1954. I seem to recall he himself was Ukrainian. But, first and foremost he was a Soviet.

Looks like a beautiful place, this Livia.


----------



## FlourPower

hjmick said:


> This is a joke thread, right? Satire... Right? It is, isn't it...?





The Onion couldn't have done a better job.


----------



## LoneLaugher

tinydancer said:


> pvsi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a joke?
> Uniformed men wearing no rank or insignia are occupying parts of Ukraine as we discuss this.
> Obama does not concern Putin.
> Putin has rationalized his actions by stating his military has crossed into Ukraine to "protect ethnic Russians".
> Total bullshit. Putin wants Ukraine back under control of Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah where was Putin to save America when Occupy wall street broke out. by the way Ukraine had elections, so if dingbats don't like it, they should move to Israel or Saudi Arabia (US allies)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You best watch what you post.
Click to expand...


Ooooooooh! Scary!


----------



## LoneLaugher

Nutters.......please try, at least, to know the politics of the OP before commenting. This joker has been posting here for a while. Why haven't you idiots grasped where he is coming from?


----------



## CrusaderFrank

pvsi said:


> Obama brings peace to Ukraine and Russia after 90 minute discussion. took Bush 8 years to do the same in Iraq.
> CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News



Yes, Obama the peacemaker. Peace in our lifetime!

Ukraine crisis tests Obama?s foreign-policy focus on diplomacy over military force - The Washington Post


----------



## Meathead

candycorn said:


> Moxie2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also staying out of Libya.  The President handled this one as well as can be expected.  There are places where we have influence and interest.  We have neither in the Ukraine.
> 
> I love the moron who said we'd have war in a very short time and the Russians will take Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You said it best, Obama handled this one as well as can be expected...He did NOTHING.
> 
> That's what we can expect from this joke of a "president".
> 
> Btw, if I were you, I'd change my avatar before labeling anyone a moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Moron.
Click to expand...

Actually, he has a point.


----------



## Eugene

Decus said:


> If corruption wasn't the reason Ukrainians were fed up, can you answer one small question - what was Yanukovych's salary as president?



Yanukovich is highly corrupted!
And it is true that people started protesting against him.
But that were not ordinary civilians who made him and his people run away. That were not civilian protesters who threw stones and fire bottles to policemen, that were terrorists of The Right Sector...organisation prepared and trained by american secret services.
Even more - many ukranians knew that uprising is planned for June/July, but it happened earlier.

Yanukovich was a very good reason to start the unrest.

But isn't there exist a democratic way of ousting the president - impichment. That was had to be done. And there were not 100 deaths in Kiev...burning administrative buildings and russian forces in Crimea.

In fact, interim ukranian government is not legal. It was not elected. Those people are those who used uprising for getting their chairs.
I cannot understand why US&EU leaders do not pay attention on that.


----------



## NoNukes

ScreamingEagle said:


>



Why in the world would we miss that putz?


----------



## TooTall

Brain357 said:


> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew said:
> 
> 
> 
> BUSH INVADED IRAQ and stayed there for the better part of a term and a half only to hand it over to Obama.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes!! ignorant people elected obama who is clueless on everything!!! just clueless!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?
Click to expand...


I thought that the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon were reason enough to attack the country where they were planned and prevent it from happening again.  Apparently you think it should have been overlooked.


----------



## Stephanie

You can forget CNN as an unbiased news source folks

Just consider it the station that pimps for Obama

CNN= the commie news network


----------



## TooTall

Brain357 said:


> blackhawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush did not start the Afghanistan war that was started by Bin Laden officially on 9-11-2001 but in reality it had been going on before Bush ever came into office with the first WTC attack, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole, and embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania it took the 2001 attack for the nation to finally wake up and realize war had been declared on us. While the Iraq war was a mistake we did have Iraq in a position to have a good chance of being a stable democracy by the time Bush left office but the Obama administration could not work out a status of forces extension agreement and all our troops were pulled out creating a power vacuum which has been filled by Al-Qaeda returning and radicals being backed by Iran. It's fair to criticize the Bush administration for the Iraq decision but that decision does not make sitting on the sideline and taking a almost isolationist tone to international problems a wise one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Bin Laden wasn't the leader of Afghanistan.  Heck for all we know he was in Pakistan the whole time.  We didn't have to start a huge war just to kill Bin Laden, Obama showed that.  Most of the terrorists were Saudi's, so we attack Afghanistan?
Click to expand...


Bin Laden was under the protection of the Taliban in Afghanistan. Most informed people knew that.   

It wasn't a huge war until Obama tripled the number of troops and doubled the Ameiricans KIA in Afghanistan.


----------



## Mac1958

.

I've looked through a few pages of this thread, and I don't see any ideas about what Obama can do about this.  

The UN, isn't going to do shit, of course. What, exactly, is Obama supposed to do?

.


----------



## Decus

Eugene said:


> Decus said:
> 
> 
> 
> If corruption wasn't the reason Ukrainians were fed up, can you answer one small question - what was Yanukovych's salary as president?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yanukovich is highly corrupted!
> And it is true that people started protesting against him.
> But that were not ordinary civilians who made him and his people run away. That were not civilian protesters who threw stones and fire bottles to policemen, that were terrorists of The Right Sector...*organisation prepared and trained by american secret services.*
> Even more - many ukranians knew that uprising is planned for June/July, but it happened earlier.
> 
> Yanukovich was a very good reason to start the unrest.
> 
> But isn't there exist a democratic way of ousting the president - impichment. That was had to be done. And there were not 100 deaths in Kiev...burning administrative buildings and russian forces in Crimea.
> 
> In fact, interim ukranian government is not legal. It was not elected. Those people are those who used uprising for getting their chairs.
> I cannot understand why US&EU leaders do not pay attention on that.
Click to expand...


Are you saying that President Obama ordered the CIA to depose Yanukovych? - "*organisation prepared and trained by american secret services*."

If it is this is an incredible revelation! Obama ordered a coup!

I guess I have to believe you. 

.


----------



## Iceweasel

Eugene said:


> US and EU politics do not want to understand some facts:
> - Russia doesn't want to look badly for all other countries and trying to move carefully as everyone in the world still think about Russia as about USSR;
> - Russia is not building newUSSR, but is trying to rise its economy which was deeply mixed with the economy of former soviet republics. When EU joins other countries it is called integration, but when Russia does the same it is called building of terrible Russian Empire;
> - Ukraine and Russia - is the only nation which was divided by politic affairs about 150 years ago. We still do not know how to identify if you are russian or ukranian... Thousands of families live partially in Ukrain and Russia. As a result we'll never fight to each other.
> 
> EU and USA are in war against Russia. Information war. A lot of false information about Russia in american mass media.


American media is not known for recognizing that other countries even exist. It takes something like this to mention anything and it will quickly go back to the Oscar awards or some mind numbed subject. 

It's good to hear other perspectives but you must also realize that Russia tends to rule with an iron fist. It isn't exactly like the EU. Once they take over the Ukraine what freedoms will Ukraine enjoy?


----------



## Iceweasel

NoNukes said:


> ScreamingEagle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why in the world would we miss that putz?
Click to expand...

Obama.


----------



## Freewill

Mac1958 said:


> .
> 
> I've looked through a few pages of this thread, and I don't see any ideas about what Obama can do about this.
> 
> The UN, isn't going to do shit, of course. What, exactly, is Obama supposed to do?
> 
> .



Certainly your idea of flailing his arms in the air and saying there is nothing he can do is certainly an interesting route.  I assume you came to that conclusion because of his history of inaction, or wrong action.  Any way there is always something that can be done it just needs thought out.  War is expensive and if we can make it more expensive and less profitable to the Russians they may back down.  We should at least ask for our reset button back.

Here are 8 ideas from Politico, there is more to them in the article.

First, President Obama should speak unequivocally and call this what it is: a military invasion.

Second, President Obama should dispatch Secretary of State John Kerry and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel to Kiev to show U.S. support for Ukraines transitional government, and urge our allies in the European Union and NATO to send representatives there as well.


Third, the United States should rally our allies to boycott this Junes G-8 summit in Sochi, Russia.

Fourth, any and all discussions and negotiations with Moscow on any issue unrelated to this crisis, including trade and other matters, should be immediately suspended.

Fifth, the U.S. and our allies should put forward a condemnatory resolution in the United Nations Security Council. A Russian or Chinese veto would make clear to the world the hypocrisy of these governments, since they say they oppose foreign intervention into the affairs of sovereign countriesunless of course they are the ones intervening.


Sixth, we should renew a push for eventual membership in NATO by the Republic of Georgia and aim to provide the country with some of the defensive capabilities the Georgians have requested ever since they were invaded by Russia in 2008.

Seventh, the Obama administration should immediately add more Russian officials to the Magnitsky list, which places travel bans and other sanctions on them  something President Obama failed to do in December.

Finally, in the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid should immediately halt his effort to force a Senate vote on Rose Gottemoeller next week to be under secretary of state for arms control and international security. 

Read more: 8 Steps Obama Must Take to Punish Russia - Marco Rubio - POLITICO Magazine


----------



## Freewill

TooTall said:


> Brain357 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GISMYS said:
> 
> 
> 
> yes!! ignorant people elected obama who is clueless on everything!!! just clueless!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bush started not one but 2 pointless wars and handed them to Obama.  When was the last time a President was handed two wars?  He started the Afghan war to get Bin Laden and failed miserably.  Why would people vote for another Republican after these disasters?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought that the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon were reason enough to attack the country where they were planned and prevent it from happening again.  Apparently you think it should have been overlooked.
Click to expand...


Liberals just make stuff up.  The Afghanistan war was not started to get OBL.  It was to remove the Taliban government that was really doing bad things to the country and supporting the terrorists that perpetrated 9/11.  We did that years ago.  OBL would have been a prize and after Tora Bora we heard little, if anything, from him.  So he was effectively neutralized.  All objectives were met in both Afghanistan and Iraq well before Obama took office.  What the hell we are still doing in Afghanistan is anyone's guess.  Especially when the CIC states it has been a failure.  Iraq, was given a present from the American people.  We removed a despot that was killing them and his awful sons.  They now have a democracy where they get to vote on whom represents them.  If they blow it that is on them not us.  We left them at relative peace.  We didn't steal their oil.  Their future is up to the Iraqi people.


----------



## Freewill




----------



## candycorn

Meathead said:


> candycorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moxie2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said it best, Obama handled this one as well as can be expected...He did NOTHING.
> 
> That's what we can expect from this joke of a "president".
> 
> Btw, if I were you, I'd change my avatar before labeling anyone a moron.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moron.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, he has a point.
Click to expand...


They make special hats for that.


----------



## georgephillip

Nutz said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The developments follow an appeal by the Prime Minister of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Sergey Aksyonov, who requested that Russia to help cope with the crisis and ensure 'peace and calm' in the region.
> 
> "The tension in Crimea escalated following an attempt to seize the building of the local Interior Ministry by gunmen overnight.
> 
> "Russias Foreign Ministry condemned the move in a statement, blaming the new authorities in Kiev for intending to 'destabilize the situation on the peninsula.'
> 
> "Meanwhile, self-proclaimed Ukrainian Acting President Aleksandr Turchinov has signed a decree ruling that appointment of the pro-Russia premier in Crimea is illegal.
> 
> "Aksyonov, who is the leader of Crimeas Russian Unity party, was appointed as the new Prime Minister of the autonomy after the Crimean Supreme Council dismissed the regional government. Peace and order in the region has been maintained by local armed self-defense squads, which were widely misreported as Russian troops on Friday."
> 
> *Putin is currently looking at multiple NATO states on Ukraine's western border while being lectured by those responsible for the recent coup in Kiev to avoid taiking "provocative action".
> 
> What action would the US take if Putin was destabilizing Mexico?*
> 
> Putin: Russian citizens, troops threatened in Ukraine, need armed forces? protection ? RT News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How is the west destabilizing the Ukraine.  The Ukranians are the ones requesting we keep our word and defend them from attack.  I get Putin's view and he can have Crimea...hell, I can somewhat respect him for coming to the aid of his supporters.  In the end, the Ukraine is gonna be split to avoid war and save face for all involved.
Click to expand...

FWIW, I think you're right.
Ukrainians will have to decide their collective future at the ballot box.
I was trying to remind everyone of the pledge HW Bush made when he left office: namely, that NATO would not expand one inch to the east after the collapse of communism. Currently, there are three NATO states on Ukraine's western border. It's widely believed by many Ukrainians that the protests in the western part of their country were organized by the CIA, the US State Department, and EU-financed NGOs because of Yanukovych's decision to not join the EU.

As nearly as I can tell, the first Truth to determine in this matter is whether it was Putin or the EU who gave Yanukovych an ultimatum which stated a tripartite agreement was not possible; according to Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine, Putin offered to cooperate with the EU in Ukraine's financial rescue, and the EU refused. I've heard the exact opposite account in my local media.

Stay tuned?


----------



## The Rabbi

Freewill said:


>



Hell I remember when Democrats would the be ones leading the charge.  Anyone think Henry Scoop Jackson would be sitting by and letting Putin run over the Ukraine?


----------



## jon_berzerk

The Rabbi said:


> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hell I remember when Democrats would the be ones leading the charge.  Anyone think Henry Scoop Jackson would be sitting by and letting Putin run over the Ukraine?
Click to expand...


the Russians are not going to give up their pretty much only 

warm water navel port


----------



## The Rabbi

jon_berzerk said:


> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Freewill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hell I remember when Democrats would the be ones leading the charge.  Anyone think Henry Scoop Jackson would be sitting by and letting Putin run over the Ukraine?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the Russians are not going to give up their pretty much only
> 
> warm water navel port
Click to expand...

What is a navel port?  Some medical procedure?
Odessa has not been part of Russia for 20 years.  So they obviously did and you are obviously wrong.


----------



## jon_berzerk

The Rabbi said:


> jon_berzerk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Rabbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hell I remember when Democrats would the be ones leading the charge.  Anyone think Henry Scoop Jackson would be sitting by and letting Putin run over the Ukraine?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the Russians are not going to give up their pretty much only
> 
> warm water navel port
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What is a navel port?  Some medical procedure?
> Odessa has not been part of Russia for 20 years.  So they obviously did and you are obviously wrong.
Click to expand...


actually i am not wrong 

Where are the Russian bases?

The main one is the fleet headquarters and naval infantry brigade headquarters at Sevastopol. There are four coastal missile regiments, four different bases. There are at least a dozen active bases on the Crimea. Some are just communication towers. Others are real bases. For example, there are several air bases.

Russian forces in Ukraine: What does the Black Sea Fleet in Crimea look like? - The Washington Post


----------



## mudwhistle

The only power Obama has is the IRS, NSA, EPA, FDA, FCC, and an army of lawyers. 

That's not going to scare Putin into compliance.

We reap what we sow.


----------



## Silhouette

jon_berzerk said:


> the Russians are not going to give up their pretty much only
> 
> warm water navel port



Yes, and neither would we if we were in their shoes.  We would be doing _exactly_ the same thing they are if Texas, say, violently tried to secede.


----------



## Trajan

Freewill said:


> Mac1958 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I've looked through a few pages of this thread, and I don't see any ideas about what Obama can do about this.
> 
> The UN, isn't going to do shit, of course. What, exactly, is Obama supposed to do?
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly your idea of flailing his arms in the air and saying there is nothing he can do is certainly an interesting route.  I assume you came to that conclusion because of his history of inaction, or wrong action.  Any way there is always something that can be done it just needs thought out.  War is expensive and if we can make it more expensive and less profitable to the Russians they may back down.  We should at least ask for our reset button back.
> 
> Here are 8 ideas from Politico, there is more to them in the article.
> 
> First, President Obama should speak unequivocally and call this what it is: a military invasion.
> 
> Second, President Obama should dispatch Secretary of State John Kerry and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel to Kiev to show U.S. support for Ukraines transitional government, and urge our allies in the European Union and NATO to send representatives there as well.
> 
> 
> Third, the United States should rally our allies to boycott this Junes G-8 summit in Sochi, Russia.
> 
> Fourth, any and all discussions and negotiations with Moscow on any issue unrelated to this crisis, including trade and other matters, should be immediately suspended.
> 
> Fifth, the U.S. and our allies should put forward a condemnatory resolution in the United Nations Security Council. A Russian or Chinese veto would make clear to the world the hypocrisy of these governments, since they say they oppose foreign intervention into the affairs of sovereign countriesunless of course they are the ones intervening.
> 
> 
> Sixth, we should renew a push for eventual membership in NATO by the Republic of Georgia and aim to provide the country with some of the defensive capabilities the Georgians have requested ever since they were invaded by Russia in 2008.
> 
> Seventh, the Obama administration should immediately add more Russian officials to the Magnitsky list, which places travel bans and other sanctions on them  something President Obama failed to do in December.
> 
> Finally, in the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid should immediately halt his effort to force a Senate vote on Rose Gottemoeller next week to be under secretary of state for arms control and international security.
> 
> Read more: 8 Steps Obama Must Take to Punish Russia - Marco Rubio - POLITICO Magazine
Click to expand...


Rubio is not helping himself here in my eyes....

example;






hes already got troops etc. all over the place. And he has an agreement with Ukraine as he pays rent for use of the bases etc..

dispatching anyone and obamas sppt. for the  transitional government is a blessing of what amounts to a coup.  Yanukovych was elected in clean elections, legally etc. 

adding more names to the Magnitsky list just submarines American/Russia adoption cooperation etc. without any appreciable effect. 

Georgia is a dead issue, obama helped blow that back in 08 to make a point on the campaign trail.


----------



## Trajan

georgephillip said:


> Nutz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The developments follow an appeal by the Prime Minister of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, Sergey Aksyonov, who requested that Russia to help cope with the crisis and ensure 'peace and calm' in the region.
> 
> "The tension in Crimea escalated following an attempt to seize the building of the local Interior Ministry by gunmen overnight.
> 
> "Russias Foreign Ministry condemned the move in a statement, blaming the new authorities in Kiev for intending to 'destabilize the situation on the peninsula.'
> 
> "Meanwhile, self-proclaimed Ukrainian Acting President Aleksandr Turchinov has signed a decree ruling that appointment of the pro-Russia premier in Crimea is illegal.
> 
> "Aksyonov, who is the leader of Crimeas Russian Unity party, was appointed as the new Prime Minister of the autonomy after the Crimean Supreme Council dismissed the regional government. Peace and order in the region has been maintained by local armed self-defense squads, which were widely misreported as Russian troops on Friday."
> 
> *Putin is currently looking at multiple NATO states on Ukraine's western border while being lectured by those responsible for the recent coup in Kiev to avoid taiking "provocative action".
> 
> What action would the US take if Putin was destabilizing Mexico?*
> 
> Putin: Russian citizens, troops threatened in Ukraine, need armed forces? protection ? RT News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How is the west destabilizing the Ukraine.  The Ukranians are the ones requesting we keep our word and defend them from attack.  I get Putin's view and he can have Crimea...hell, I can somewhat respect him for coming to the aid of his supporters.  In the end, the Ukraine is gonna be split to avoid war and save face for all involved.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FWIW, I think you're right.
> Ukrainians will have to decide their collective future at the ballot box.
> I was trying to remind everyone of the pledge HW Bush made when he left office: namely, that NATO would not expand one inch to the east after the collapse of communism. Currently, there are three NATO states on Ukraine's western border. It's widely believed by many Ukrainians that the protests in the western part of their country were organized by the CIA, the US State Department, and EU-financed NGOs because of Yanukovych's decision to not join the EU.
> 
> *As nearly as I can tell, the first Truth to determine in this matter is whether it was Putin or the EU who gave Yanukovych an ultimatum which stated a tripartite agreement was not possible; according to Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine, Putin offered to cooperate with the EU in Ukraine's financial rescue, and the EU refused. I've heard the exact opposite account in my local media.*
> 
> Stay tuned?
Click to expand...


agreed, Stephen Cohen is a russo-phile and expert on the region,  teaches at NYU, I was listening to him the other night, last Nov. Putin offered to work on a 3 way deal. 

They need to let their gov. mechanisms work, if the Parliament and pres. agrees to a Russian deal, then next election and in parliamentary elections they can vote them out or......not.


----------



## Kondor3

Iceweasel said:


> NoNukes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ScreamingEagle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why in the world would we miss that putz?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Obama.
Click to expand...

That was cold...

Funny...

Accurate...

Sad..., and...

Scary...

I feel sooooooo much safer, with a Community Organizer staring down a bare-knuckles bad-ass like Uncle Vlad...


----------



## thereisnospoon

francoHFW said:


> 58 per cent of the Crimeans are Russians, and their Black Sea naval base is there- They didn't invade, they're already there. Remain calm, fear mongered, ignorant Foxbots...


Got a link to that?
It's an invasion. Got that. Mr Uninformed?


----------



## georgephillip

RetiredGySgt said:


> When does it become our business? After Putin gobbles up the Asian break away republics? Perhaps after he takes the southern ones? Maybe we should wait till he invades Poland?
> 
> *We have a binding treaty with the Ukraine which stipulates if they are invaded we will defend them.* So by advocating we do nothing you all support the paper tiger claim. We will prove that at least under Obama we do NOT live up to our treaties. Which means perhaps Putin won't need to invade some Countries, he will just threaten them and knowing no one will help they will fold.
> 
> The message we send to our allies and our enemies is that we have not got the ability, the strength of will or resolve to uphold our treaties. This will embolden more then Russia. China sees our inaction and our refusal to defend an ally. They already want Taiwan and the South Pacific. It emboldens them to use force for what they want because they will assume the US won't actually act.
> 
> Our allies in the Pacific will know we failed to act and will be less likely to depend on our treaties with them as well.
> 
> Great plan. We are on the road to war if we do not act. Better to test Putin now then later. Now he may blink later he will have had so many successes he simply will not believe we would do anything. As will China.


*What if nobody blinks?*

"A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin's troops cross into the country.

"Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma  the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine - agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

"Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.

"The revelation comes as reports suggest the Kremlin was moving up to 2,000 troops across the Black Sea from Novorossiysk to their fleet base at Sevastopol. 

"At least 20 men wearing the uniform of the Russian fleet and carrying automatic rifles surrounded a Ukrainian border guard post in a standoff near the port yesterday.

Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online

*Are you planning to pay for our defense of Ukrainian "democracy" by raising taxes or by more borrowing?*


----------



## Trajan

look, seriously, we ain't goin' no where and neither is nato....

Kerry should really just shut up now. NO ONE is buying it....

John Kerry: ?All Options on the Table? to Hold Russia Accountable in Ukraine - ABC News


----------



## jon_berzerk

georgephillip said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> When does it become our business? After Putin gobbles up the Asian break away republics? Perhaps after he takes the southern ones? Maybe we should wait till he invades Poland?
> 
> *We have a binding treaty with the Ukraine which stipulates if they are invaded we will defend them.* So by advocating we do nothing you all support the paper tiger claim. We will prove that at least under Obama we do NOT live up to our treaties. Which means perhaps Putin won't need to invade some Countries, he will just threaten them and knowing no one will help they will fold.
> 
> The message we send to our allies and our enemies is that we have not got the ability, the strength of will or resolve to uphold our treaties. This will embolden more then Russia. China sees our inaction and our refusal to defend an ally. They already want Taiwan and the South Pacific. It emboldens them to use force for what they want because they will assume the US won't actually act.
> 
> Our allies in the Pacific will know we failed to act and will be less likely to depend on our treaties with them as well.
> 
> Great plan. We are on the road to war if we do not act. Better to test Putin now then later. Now he may blink later he will have had so many successes he simply will not believe we would do anything. As will China.
> 
> 
> 
> *What if nobody blinks?*
> 
> "A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin's troops cross into the country.
> 
> "Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma  the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine - agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
> 
> "Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.
> 
> "The revelation comes as reports suggest the Kremlin was moving up to 2,000 troops across the Black Sea from Novorossiysk to their fleet base at Sevastopol.
> 
> "At least 20 men wearing the uniform of the Russian fleet and carrying automatic rifles surrounded a Ukrainian border guard post in a standoff near the port yesterday.
> 
> Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online
> 
> *Are you planning to pay for our defense of Ukrainian "democracy" by raising taxes or by more borrowing?*
Click to expand...


according to the memorandum 

i do not believe we are obligated to intervene 


The Budapest 
Memorandum of 1994
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2014/2014_1-9/2014-08/pdf/34-35_4108.pdf


----------



## georgephillip

jon_berzerk said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> 
> When does it become our business? After Putin gobbles up the Asian break away republics? Perhaps after he takes the southern ones? Maybe we should wait till he invades Poland?
> 
> *We have a binding treaty with the Ukraine which stipulates if they are invaded we will defend them.* So by advocating we do nothing you all support the paper tiger claim. We will prove that at least under Obama we do NOT live up to our treaties. Which means perhaps Putin won't need to invade some Countries, he will just threaten them and knowing no one will help they will fold.
> 
> The message we send to our allies and our enemies is that we have not got the ability, the strength of will or resolve to uphold our treaties. This will embolden more then Russia. China sees our inaction and our refusal to defend an ally. They already want Taiwan and the South Pacific. It emboldens them to use force for what they want because they will assume the US won't actually act.
> 
> Our allies in the Pacific will know we failed to act and will be less likely to depend on our treaties with them as well.
> 
> Great plan. We are on the road to war if we do not act. Better to test Putin now then later. Now he may blink later he will have had so many successes he simply will not believe we would do anything. As will China.
> 
> 
> 
> *What if nobody blinks?*
> 
> "A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin's troops cross into the country.
> 
> "Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma  the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine - agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
> 
> "Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.
> 
> "The revelation comes as reports suggest the Kremlin was moving up to 2,000 troops across the Black Sea from Novorossiysk to their fleet base at Sevastopol.
> 
> "At least 20 men wearing the uniform of the Russian fleet and carrying automatic rifles surrounded a Ukrainian border guard post in a standoff near the port yesterday.
> 
> Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online
> 
> *Are you planning to pay for our defense of Ukrainian "democracy" by raising taxes or by more borrowing?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> according to the memorandum
> 
> i do not believe we are obligated to intervene
> 
> 
> The Budapest
> Memorandum of 1994
> http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2014/2014_1-9/2014-08/pdf/34-35_4108.pdf
Click to expand...

*It appears this document doesn't qualify as a treaty and provides wide latitude for interpretation:*

"The agreement promises to protest Ukraine's borders in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.

"It is not a formal treaty, but rather, a diplomatic document.

"It was an unprecedented case in contemporary international life and international law.

"Whether is it legally binding in complex.

"'It is binding in international law, but that doesn't mean it has any means of enforcement,' says Barry Kellman is a professor of law and director of the International Weapons Control Center at DePaul University's College of Law told Radio Free Europe.

Treaty would mean 'British war with Russia' if Putin's troops intervene in Ukraine | Mail Online

*Hopefully, the Ukrainians will decide their own collective fate at the ballot box and not in a war that could spin out of control.*


----------



## georgephillip

Eugene said:


> US and EU politics do not want to understand some facts:
> - Russia doesn't want to look badly for all other countries and trying to move carefully as everyone in the world still think about Russia as about USSR;
> - Russia is not building newUSSR, but is trying to rise its economy which was deeply mixed with the economy of former soviet republics. When EU joins other countries it is called integration, but when Russia does the same it is called building of terrible Russian Empire;
> - Ukraine and Russia - is the only nation which was divided by politic affairs about 150 years ago. We still do not know how to identify if you are russian or ukranian... Thousands of families live partially in Ukrain and Russia. As a result we'll never fight to each other.
> 
> EU and USA are in war against Russia. Information war. A lot of false information about Russia in american mass media.


*There also appears to be a lack of relevant information in the US press concerning the recent coup in Kiev:*

"When Ukrainian nationalists and far-right groups began protesting against Viktor Yanukovychs government on Kievs Maidan Square, many Western and Russian media outlets called the demonstrations fascist with anti-Semitic undertones. Armed and masked protesters brandished nationalist symbols linked with the fascism of yesteryear.

"This included the Celtic cross, which has replaced the swastika for many modern white-power groups, and the wolf-hook SS insignia. 

"There was also the symbol 14/88. 

"The 14 represents a 14-word slogan used by white nationalists, and the 88 stands for 'Heil Hitler'  H is the eighth letter of the alphabet. 

"Finally, there was the Black Sun occult symbol, with which the Third Reich adorned a castle hall."

*Advertisement


----------



## RoadVirus

bianco said:


> RoadVirus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Abbott said he understands the issue will be discussed "urgently" by the members of the United Nations Security Council, including Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN's response oughta be as hilarious as Obama's response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN might decide to blockade Russia...which won't be a laughing matter for it.
Click to expand...


What a load of bullshit. The UN will send Putin a strongly worded letter telling him "to not do it again" and that will be the end of it. The UN is nothing but an organization of pussies.


----------



## Katzndogz

The Ukraine hasn't been invaded.  This is essentially a civil war for which treaties are ineffective.  If we go there, the most hostile force we will encounter will be the Ukranians themselves.


----------



## History

I couldn't say I blame Putin for showing the world what a coward Obama really is and putting him in his place haha


----------



## Roudy

History said:


> I couldn't say I blame Putin for showing the world what a coward Obama really is and putting him in his place haha


Exactly, Putin is doing what any smart leader would do, exploiting a perceived weakness he sees in US leadership. Had there been another person but Obama at the helm, Putin wouldn't even think of it.


----------



## jon_berzerk

bianco said:


> RoadVirus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Abbott said he understands the issue will be discussed "urgently" by the members of the United Nations Security Council, including Australia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The UN's response oughta be as hilarious as Obama's response.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The UN might decide to blockade Russia...which won't be a laughing matter for it.
Click to expand...


that is not going to happen


----------



## jon_berzerk

francoHFW said:


> 58 per cent of the Crimeans are Russians, and their Black Sea naval base is there- They didn't invade, they're already there. Remain calm, fear mongered, ignorant Foxbots...



the Rusisians have much more then just the Black sea fleet there are numerous bases 

in Crimea area


----------



## Katzndogz

The UN might decide to offer aid to Crimea, like they did in Haiti.   Or, like they are doing in Africa.


----------



## Kondor3

The Ukrainians should never have given back those war-assets, and should have kicked the Russians out of those bases for good, when the Soviet Union fell in the early 1990s.

Waaaayyy too late now.


----------



## bianco

Well.....at 3.30am today Sydney time, Michael rang Sydney's no1 radio station and said;

para; "What's now happening in Ukraine is really a US-Arab bloc v Russia fight over gas exports to Europe.
The US is also trying to neutralise Venezuela that has the largest gas reserves in the world." 

Lucky I awoke early today and switced on the radio, eh?   or I could still be in the dark.


----------

