# What is the purpose of government?



## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

You can't have it both ways. To the extent that government is your caretaker, it is your master.


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## Hugo Furst (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


> You can't have it both ways.



why not?


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## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

WillHaftawaite said:


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It's the nature of dependency. If you depend on someone else for your needs, they have control over you. Everything has its price.


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## harmonica (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


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...we pay taxes for a variety of things....we have the power to vote jackasses out ,that use those taxes idiotically
..please give examples of dependency


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## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

harmonica said:


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Huh... I assumed a basic level of political awareness on the part of the reader. Google "US welfare programs" or something similar. You'll get there.


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## harmonica (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


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I assumed at least a 4th grade level from the OP poster
just LIKE a lot of dumbass threads -NO PROOF --NOTHING to back up their stupid shit


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## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

harmonica said:


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Sorry to disappoint you. What is your opinion? Would you rather have government focused on protecting freedom? Or ensuring that your needs are met? (according to the government's estimation of your needs).


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## Hugo Furst (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


> would you rather have government focused on protecting freedom? Or ensuring that your needs are met?



not mutually exclusive


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## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

WillHaftawaite said:


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Hmm.. well, you can have some of each, but they do directly counter each other. Freedom and dependency are the opposite.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro (Sep 3, 2019)

Apparently, these days the purpose of government is to wipe your ass for you from cradle to grave


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## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Apparently, these days the purpose of government is to wipe your ass for you from cradle to grave



And make sure no one triggers you.


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## harmonica (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


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....kind of hard to answer when we don't know what you are yakking about


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


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Trump owns no one 

What's your point.?


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## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

harmonica said:


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Give a try. The question is pretty plainly worded. Which part has you confused?


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## harmonica (Sep 3, 2019)

bear513 said:


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he doesn't even know himself


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## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

bear513 said:


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My point is that if we make government our principal provider, it will be our master. Access to the things we need will depend on staying on good terms with whomever is in office.


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## harmonica (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


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ok


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## Wyatt earp (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


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That's fascism


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## harmonica (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


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do you---ahhhhhhh---have an *EXAMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!??*


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## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

harmonica said:


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Your googler broken? Lazy prick. Do your own research.


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## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

bear513 said:


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Pretty much. But it's where we're heading.


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## dblack (Sep 3, 2019)

It's good to see that no one is supporting the idea that government is there to take care of us. But I do see that sentiment expressed frequently by posters on the board. Maybe they're shy.


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


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No, you do the research so the critics can sit on their ass and try to rip it apart based upon their opinions.  THAT is how this board works.


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## rightwinger (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


> You can't have it both ways. To the extent that government is your caretaker, it is your master.


Government works for We the People


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## rightwinger (Sep 3, 2019)

dblack said:


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They work for us


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## harmonica (Sep 4, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


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no evidence = BULLSHIT


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## harmonica (Sep 4, 2019)

dblack said:


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if you want to look like an idiot that's fine with me
no evidence = bullshit
....enough of your dumbshit...I try to civilly discuss your OP and you are a JACKASS about it
1. no evidence-nothing explained/etc
2. you're a jackass about it
3. adios


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 4, 2019)

harmonica said:


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There is one thing that I've never witnessed on these boards:

I have never witnessed an incident where even mountains of evidence changed the balance when a critic didn't want to accept the truth or, better still, allow someone to have a differing opinion.


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## dblack (Sep 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Doesn't change a single thing about what I said.


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## dblack (Sep 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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_Some_ of us. So what?


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## rightwinger (Sep 4, 2019)

dblack said:


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Afraid it does
Government provides the services We the People demand......makes us the master


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## rightwinger (Sep 4, 2019)

dblack said:


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All of us


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Randy Weaver moved far into the woods and demanded to be left alone.  The government responded by killing members of his family (including a deliberate head shot by an experienced sniper on an unarmed mother as she held her infant with one arm while holding a door open) and the family dog in a cowardly attack.

You might want your name attached to that and the thousands of incidents of government sponsored murder, but not me.  That government which governs least, governs best.


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## Indeependent (Sep 4, 2019)

dblack said:


> You can't have it both ways. To the extent that government is your caretaker, it is your master.


Who ensures the quality of your water?


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## rightwinger (Sep 4, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


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All he had to do is comply with a legal request
Instead, he went for his guns


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## SobieskiSavedEurope (Sep 4, 2019)

Neither, government was first funded to protect people from invaders, war, raids, genocide. etc.


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## danielpalos (Sep 4, 2019)

dblack said:


> You can't have it both ways. To the extent that government is your caretaker, it is your master.


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


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## dblack (Sep 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Nope. Only the majority.


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## rightwinger (Sep 4, 2019)

dblack said:


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All of us


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Not true.  He was not notified in a timely manner.  You're leaving out the facts of the case.  The government lost in court and Weaver was awarded a substantial amount of money.  That money cannot bring back his family, however.


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## rightwinger (Sep 4, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


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Weaver created an armed crisis that led to violence


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## dblack (Sep 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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That's not the way democracy works.


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## Oddball (Sep 4, 2019)

*What is the primary purpose of government?
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To grow itself and amass power, as the expense of the poor saps foolish enough to believe that it's there to protect their lives and liberties.


The Founders were wrong....The State will *never ever *stay in its box.


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## danielpalos (Sep 4, 2019)

Our welfare clause is General not Common and must cover any and every contingency.


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## rightwinger (Sep 4, 2019)

dblack said:


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Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for supper

We have a republic


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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This is way the Hell off the real topic, but you're full of shit.  The problem started when the feds used their connections to local white supremacists for an introduction by Weaver to some guy whose name escapes me.  Weaver would not work with the feds.  Here is the Wikipedia account:


Weaver's original court date was Feb. 19 1991; it was changed to the following day, but Pretrial Services sent Weaver a notice citing the date as March 20. As a result, Weaver missed the hearing and a bench warrant was issued for his arrest, with the U.S. Marshals Service directed to serve it. The U.S. Marshals Service wanted to allow Weaver the opportunity to show up in court on March 20, but the U.S. Attorneys Office sought a grand jury indictment on March 14 for Weaver's failure to appear. This convinced Randy and Vicki Weaver that he had no chance of a fair hearing.

_...Weaver was *charged with *multiple crimes relating to the Ruby Ridge incident – a total of ten counts, including the* original firearms charges.*

.. *Weaver was found guilty of one count, failure to appear, *for which Weaver was fined $10,000 and sentenced to 18 months in prison. He was credited with time served plus an additional three months, and was then released. Kevin Harris was acquitted of all criminal charges_.

Randy Weaver - Wikipedia

Weaver did nothing wrong and the games the feds played with him were attempted with me.  Randy came to my house and told me how it would play out.  As sure as Trump is president, those cowards tried the same thing with me - as I was the C.O. of a state civilian militia (the biggest in the country at the time) and they just wanted me out of the way - just as they did Randy.  His misfortune saved my life.  So, you can argue all you like.  I happen to know, first hand what the facts are in that case.  Now, let's get back on topic and move forward.


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## rightwinger (Sep 4, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


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Weaver was scum
Deserved to be shot for jeopardizing his family


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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You're an uninformed idiot that don't know what the Hell he's talking about.


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## dblack (Sep 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


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Yes, daniel. 

If you're trying to make a coherent point, keep trying.


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## danielpalos (Sep 4, 2019)

We already know what the purpose of Government is for us, it is in the preamble.


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## dblack (Sep 4, 2019)

danielpalos said:


> We already know what the purpose of Government is for us, it is in the preamble.


Piss off, troll.


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## Votto (Sep 4, 2019)

harmonica said:


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Congress has had an approval rating of under 20% for decades now yet they keep getting elected.


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## danielpalos (Sep 4, 2019)

dblack said:


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don't believe in and have Faith in our Constitution, 

faithless, Ogre?


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## rightwinger (Sep 4, 2019)

A Government of the People, by the People and for the People


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## dblack (Sep 4, 2019)

Piss off, troll.


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## dblack (Sep 4, 2019)

rightwinger said:


> A Government of the People, by the People and for the People



Ahh.. so, you're joining daniel on TeamTroll? 

Just keep repeating nonsense. If that's all you got.


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## danielpalos (Sep 4, 2019)

Infrastructure upgrade is a purpose for Government.


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## dblack (Sep 4, 2019)

Piss off, troll.


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## Agit8r (Sep 4, 2019)

"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another; this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him: and every man is under the natural duty of contributing to the necessities of the society; and this is all the laws should enforce on him: and, no man having a natural right to be the judge between himself and another, it is his natural duty to submit to the umpirage of an impartial third."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to Francis Gilmer (June 7, 1816)


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## rightwinger (Sep 4, 2019)

dblack said:


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Abe Lincoln was not a troll


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## wamose (Sep 4, 2019)

From most of the representatives point of view, government is to rob, derive power from and use to get reelected. Who said anything about noble intentions?


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## Oddball (Sep 4, 2019)

wamose said:


> From most of the representatives point of view, government is to rob, derive power from and use to get reelected. Who said anything about noble intentions?


The rubes who still think that their vote has any value.


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## harmonica (Sep 5, 2019)

Votto said:


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goes to show you Americans are stupid


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## gipper (Sep 5, 2019)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Apparently, these days the purpose of government is to wipe your ass for you from cradle to grave


The purpose of our government today is to make sure the needs of the extreme wealthy are taken care of.


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## dblack (Sep 5, 2019)

gipper said:


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Well, that's just the thing. When government is in charge of distributing favors, the people with the most influence will get the most favors.


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2019)

wamose said:


> From most of the representatives point of view, government is to rob, derive power from and use to get reelected. Who said anything about noble intentions?


Our representatives to Government are only Delegated their authority.

We have our First, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments to ensure that.


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2019)

harmonica said:


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...the right wing does give that impression.


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## dblack (Sep 5, 2019)

danielpalos said:


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Piss off, troll.


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2019)

dblack said:


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lol.  what an impression.


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 5, 2019)

danielpalos said:


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Dude, I don't know of anyone out there that can hold the government accountable and enforce those constitutional guarantees, do you?


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## dblack (Sep 5, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


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You reply to daniel as though he's said something - as though there's something to reply to. But there never is. Look closely at his posts. He's just regurgitating the same senseless quips and phrases over and over again. They rarely have anything, at all, to do with the topic. Yet people fill in the blanks and respond to his posts anyway. He's just trolling.


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## toobfreak (Sep 5, 2019)

dblack said:


> *What is the purpose of government?*
> You can't have it both ways. To the extent that government is your caretaker, it is your master.


How about the obvious missing 3rd option?  That government is there to control and limit the population and acts as sand in the gears of society as it only operates and thrives by taking from the economy, industry and the individual?


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 5, 2019)

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Sometimes I can't help but screw with his head just to let him know his repetitive B.S. is meaningless and not even people who hold the same views as he does want to be associated with him.


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


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we should be more grateful for our federal doctrine of separation of powers, than we currently are.


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2019)

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lol.  ...this from a "one trick ad hominem pony?"


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


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the right wing has nothing but repeal, not any valid arguments.


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## dblack (Sep 5, 2019)

danielpalos said:


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Piss off, troll.


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 5, 2019)

danielpalos said:


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Piss off troll.


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 5, 2019)

danielpalos said:


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LMFAO


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2019)

Porter Rockwell said:


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...see.  That Proves it.


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## dblack (Sep 5, 2019)

danielpalos said:


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Piss off, troll.


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2019)

why does anyone take the right wing seriously about who the real trolls are?


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## dblack (Sep 5, 2019)

danielpalos said:


> why does anyone take the right wing seriously about who the real trolls are?


Piss off, troll.


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 5, 2019)

danielpalos said:


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Piss off troll.


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## danielpalos (Sep 5, 2019)

Proof, the right wing doesn't care enough about their topics to even argue their points.


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## Porter Rockwell (Sep 5, 2019)

danielpalos said:


> Proof, the right wing doesn't care enough about their topics to even argue their points.



Piss off troll.


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## M14 Shooter (Sep 9, 2019)

*What is the purpose of government? *

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-- *That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,*


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## vasuderatorrent (Sep 12, 2019)

dblack said:


> You can't have it both ways. To the extent that government is your caretaker, it is your master.



Property rights are the bedrock to a successful enterprise system.  Someone must make the initial distribution of property.  Military members kill lots of people, obtain property and then divide it up to deserving/undeserving party.  Then commerce can begin to thrive where property rights are clearly defined.  The remaining government is just residual.  Once the property is divided up there is no longer a need for government.

It is way more complicated than all of that but I do think governments are necessary at the inception of a nation.


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## vasuderatorrent (Sep 12, 2019)

harmonica said:


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Roads, courts and police protection


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## vasuderatorrent (Sep 12, 2019)

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Apparently, these days the purpose of government is to wipe your ass for you from cradle to grave



I have never had my ass wiped by a librarian.


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## dblack (Sep 12, 2019)

vasuderatorrent said:


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Don't knock it 'til you've tried it!


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## vasuderatorrent (Sep 12, 2019)

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Nor a police officer or even a mailman.


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## harmonica (Sep 13, 2019)

vasuderatorrent said:


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that doesn't mean they have control---like I said, we VOTE on a lot of these issues


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## dblack (Sep 13, 2019)

harmonica said:


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What does voting have to do with whether government controls something or not?


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## rightwinger (Sep 13, 2019)

Government serves We the People


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