# Occupation 101



## P F Tinmore (Sep 19, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SbjAanvUqs]YouTube - Occupation 101 Part 1[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV8N9J9gJ9c&feature=related]YouTube - Occupation 101 Part 2[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Sep 19, 2010)

Who Profits from the Occupation?


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## Urbanguerrilla (Sep 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> YouTube - Occupation 101 Part 1
> YouTube - Occupation 101 Part 2



This is the real meaning of the term terrorism, the Israelis are terrorists pure and simple...


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## Marc39 (Sep 27, 2010)

Urbanguerrilla said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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This is the real meaning of the term terrorism...
"Oh, Allah, Kill All Americans And Jews"
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rls9eRKyo]YouTube - Islam: Oh Allah - Kill all Jews and Americans![/ame]


This is the real meaning of Israel...


> When I was injured I chose to come to Israel because it's well known that the treatment here is better than in Egypt - by a lot - or in Gaza. I had to have a microsurgery to replace a tendon in my foot, and I knew this was the best place to do it. He insisted that his identity be hidden, for fear of repercussions from Hamas.





> Every year thousands of Palestinian patients from Gaza and the West Bank are treated in Israeli hospitals across the country. Patients also come from many Arab countries, some of which still don't even recognize Israel.



Rokon Asadi, Medical Rep. for Arab Community...


> All politics aside, Israel has a very good reputation in the world for medicine. There are many, many people who want to be treated by Israel. It just doesn&#8217;t matter to them that it's Israel. There would be many more patients coming from Persian countries, Arab and neighboring countries, if there wasn&#8217;t such difficulty getting their visas


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCqJ948Td2Q]YouTube - Gazans choose Israeli hospitals despite troubles[/ame]


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## PoliticalChic (Sep 27, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> YouTube - Occupation 101 Part 1
> YouTube - Occupation 101 Part 2



Here's why I support these folks, not those folks:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFbkbTqT2j0]YouTube - Sexy beach dancers flash mob in Tel Aviv, Israel - SEE MY OTHER VIDEOS[/ame]


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## Urbanguerrilla (Sep 27, 2010)

PoliticalChic said:


> Here's why I support these folks, not those folks:



What about the dispossession, torture and murder by 'these folks' against 'those folks'?

Dispatches - 4oD - Channel 4


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 27, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM1ruYCS6JY]YouTube - Occupation 101 part 3[/ame]


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## PoliticalChic (Sep 27, 2010)

Urbanguerrilla said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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Let me think about this....OK, I thought about it.

I'll side with the folks who pick life over death, not the ones who 'love death.'

And that's what I see in the vid.
(You couldn't sit still during that vid: admit it.)

*Leading Muslim clerics often refer to the love of death*. Chief Palestinian Authority cleric Mufti Sheikh Ikrimeh Sabri stated, "We tell them, in as much as you love life,* the Muslim loves death and martyrdom. There is a great difference* between he who loves the hereafter and he who loves this world. *The Muslim loves death and [strives for] martyrdom." *Saudi Sheikh Abd Al-Muhsin Al-Qassem in Al-Madina added: "The Jews preached permissiveness and corruption, as they hid behind *false slogans like freedom and equality, humanism and brotherhood.*.. They are cowards in battle... they flee from death and fear fighting... *They love life*." 

Former head of the Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee Sheikh Atiyyah Saqr was asked the following question in an online chat room on March 22, 2004: "What, according to the Koran, are the *Jews' main characteristics *and qualities?" He explained one of their worst traits: "Cowardice and *love for this worldly life *are undisputable traits [of the Jews]." Hezbollah's Secretary General Hassan Nasrallah revealed in an interview after the recent prisoner swap between Israel and his group: "We have discovered how to hit the Jews where they are the most vulnerable. *The Jews love life,* so that is what we shall take away from them. We are going to win, *because they love life and we love death." *Steven Stalinsky on the Muslim Culture of Death on National Review Online
(emphasis mine throughout)

I'm sick of pathology being defined as theology.


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## Urbanguerrilla (Sep 27, 2010)

PoliticalChic said:


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I don't care about a couple of mad mullahs letting off steam, lets face it there are as many crazy religious dudes in the US whether Christian or Jew. Its like making David Koresh a leading christian thinker. 

Did you see the video I posted called the Children of Gaza; whatever your views of the conflict you can't fail to be moved by the plight of these children. They don't deserve to be treated like this...


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## Trajan (Sep 27, 2010)

I am actually kind of shocked. I am still relatively new here, but I think I have been here long enough to observe fairly confidently, that there is no serious conversation to be had on this topic on this site, which is what shocks me.  Every forum/website has its  whackadoodle kill da Heebs and  whackadoodle kill da Habibs posters&#8230;..Then there are those that though they are &#8216;more or less&#8217;  sympathetic  to one side,  understand there are no real innocents among them.


Everyone has blood on their hands and though  we may differ at times,  we also agree as well and at least make an honest and earnest attempt to understand one and another&#8230;..so, I am shocked that there aren&#8217;t  at least few of  those here abouts? Or have they left out of exhaustion and frustration?


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## Marc39 (Sep 27, 2010)

Urbanguerrilla said:


> I don't care about a couple of mad mullahs letting off steam, lets face it there are as many crazy religious dudes in the US whether Christian or Jew. Its like making David Koresh a leading christian thinker.



Islam is a cult of terrorism.  allah is a terrorist...

Quran 8:12...


> I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes.



Now, you know, shit-for-brains.


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## PoliticalChic (Sep 27, 2010)

Urbanguerrilla said:


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"...lets face it there are as many crazy religious dudes in the US whether Christian or Jew."

Put your dinero where you put your dinner.
Let's see if you can back up your palaver...

Here's some more about "...mad mullahs..."

You're concerned about children, then check out the part about 'defenseless children' and 'kindergartners.'

"We should by now have become used to the death cult that is thriving at the fringes of the Muslim world. This is the cult of people who are proud to declare, "You love life, but we love death." This is the cult that sent waves of defenseless children to be mowed down on the battlefields of the Iran-Iraq war, that trains kindergartners to become bombs, that fetishizes death, that sends people off joyfully to commit mass murder.

This cult attaches itself to a political cause but parasitically strangles it. *The death cult has strangled the dream of a Palestinian state. The suicide bombers have not brought peace to Palestine; they've brought reprisals. The car bombers are not pushing the U.S. out of Iraq; they're forcing us to stay longer. The death cult is now strangling the Chechen cause, and will bring not independence but blood. *But that's the idea. Because the death cult is not really about the cause it purports to serve. It's about *the sheer pleasure of killing and dying.*It's about massacring people while in a state of spiritual loftiness. It's about experiencing the total freedom of *barbarism* - freedom even from human nature, which says, Love children, and Love life. It's about *the joy of sadism and suicide.*"
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/07/opinion/07brooks.html


There was a time when I thought it would be difficult to find posters who would defend and excuse the savagery, but you proved me wrong: here you are.

I haven't seen enough of your posts to determine whether you are a pathetic juvenile, or a pathological anti-Semite.  Could you let me know which it is?


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## Marc39 (Sep 27, 2010)

PoliticalChic said:


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Don't waste too much oxygen on him.  He's mentally disabled.  I just smack him around to put him in his place.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 27, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg0ql9tA1-I&feature=related]YouTube - Occupation 101 Part 4[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 27, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-ZHRPHrOsI&feature=related]YouTube - Occupation 101 Part 5[/ame]


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## Marc39 (Sep 27, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Occupation 101 Part 4[/url]



Occupation 101:  Palestine is the Jewish homeland under the terms of the Palestine Mandate, unanimously ratified by the League of Nations.

Deal with it, loser.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 27, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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And then it flopped. It never happened.

Why did the Zionists accept a part of Palestine in 1947 when they received the whole pie 25 years earlier?


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 27, 2010)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agn1dHqQlzY&feature=related]YouTube - Occupation 101 Part 6[/ame]


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## Marc39 (Sep 27, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Occupation 101 [/url]



Occupation 101: Arabs are occupying sovereign Israeli land under the terms of the Palestine Mandate unanimously ratified by the League of Nations establishing Palestine as the Jewish homeland.


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 27, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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That "homeland for the Jews" thing was shitcanned as it should have been.

You need to catch up.


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## Marc39 (Sep 27, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Open a history book, shit-for-brains.

The Levant is the homeland of the Jews.
Arabia, the homeland of the Arabs.

Too bad you're a high school dropout, loser


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## P F Tinmore (Sep 27, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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Well, there are a couple more lies.


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## Marc39 (Sep 27, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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Translation: You're uneducated and have nothing.


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## georgephillip (Sep 30, 2010)

And you are still living in a delusion where you attended Princeton and could therefore opine intelligently on why UNSCR 242 and GCIV don't apply to the Jewish State of Israel.

Right?


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## Marc39 (Oct 4, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> And you are still living in a delusion where you attended Princeton and could therefore opine intelligently on why UNSCR 242 and GCIV don't apply to the Jewish State of Israel.
> 
> Right?



Georgie, UN Res. 242 is non-binding and requires nothing of Israel.  242 is predicated on Israel's enemies establishing peace with Israel, which is not forthcoming.

Too bad you dropped out of high school, Georgie


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## Mr Natural (Oct 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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Great, so the entire world gets to be held hostage because of some ancient history.


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## Marc39 (Oct 4, 2010)

Mr Clean said:


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The whole world is hostage to Islam.


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## Mr Natural (Oct 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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Because of Israel.


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## Marc39 (Oct 4, 2010)

Mr Clean said:


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Because of Islam.

Quran 2:216...


> Jihâd (holy fighting in Allâh's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allâh knows but you do not know.


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## ekrem (Oct 4, 2010)

PoliticalChic said:


> "...lets face it there are as many crazy religious dudes in the US whether Christian or Jew."
> 
> Put your dinero where you put your dinner.
> Let's see if you can back up your palaver...
> ...



Your opinion-article of New York Times is of no value. 
The US media scape is highly comprimised by specific interest groups, this becomes visible especially in opinion columns which do not serve a purpose of fact-based information distribution. 
Also this opinion dates back to the times where the world was forced to live with terminology like Axis of Evil. 

The opinion tries to bundle several different factions, each with their own motives and background-stories into a very dislogical oness, those who have joy in sadism. 
You really believe in this simple identity-reduction ?
This opinion does not tell us a lot about the conflicts that guy is talking about, but it tells us more about the Zeitgeist in USA of that time and NYTimes.


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## Marc39 (Oct 6, 2010)

ekrem said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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When will Turkey end its occupation of northern Cyprus, hypocritical slave of allah trash?


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## georgephillip (Oct 12, 2010)

"At least 10 Palestinian children have been shot and wounded by Israeli troops in the past three months while collecting rubble in or near the "buffer zone" created by Israel along the Gaza border, in a low-intensity offensive on the fringes of the blockaded Palestinian territory.

"Israeli soldiers are routinely shooting at Gazans well beyond the unmarked boundary of the official 300 metre-wide no-go area, rights groups say.(Photograph: Guardian)]Mohammed Sobboh and his brother Adham. Israeli soldiers are routinely shooting at Gazans well beyond the unmarked boundary of the official 300 metre-wide no-go area, rights groups say.

"Israeli soldiers are routinely shooting at Gazans well beyond the unmarked boundary of the official 300 metre-wide no-go area, rights groups say.

According to Bassam Masri, head of orthopaedics at the Kamal Odwan hospital in Beit Lahiya in the north of Gaza, about 50 people have been treated for gunshot wounds suffered in or near the buffer zone while collecting rubble in the past three months; about five have been killed."

Nobody kills kids like heroic Jews.

Israeli Troops


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## Marc39 (Oct 12, 2010)

"We Desire Death Like You Desire Life"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO81aO7QxbM[/ame]


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## docmauser1 (Oct 13, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"At least 10 Palestinian children have been shot and wounded by Israeli troops in the past three months while collecting rubble in or near the "buffer zone" created by Israel along the Gaza border_


Funny how those "children" either "collect rubble" in hot zones, or play in traffic. Parental negligence? Don't think so. The answer is much simpler - jihad, martyrdom and death cult demand human sacrifices.


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## Marc39 (Oct 13, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Nobody kills kids like heroic Jews.



Nobody kills their own kids like virgin chasing Muhammadans...

"We Desire Death Like You Desire Life"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO81aO7QxbM[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Oct 17, 2010)

"Since the Palestinian elections in 2006, Israel and much of the West have asserted that the principal obstacle to any progress toward Israeli-Palestinian peace is the refusal of Hamas to 'recognize Israel,' or to 'recognize Israel's existence,' or to 'recognize Israel's right to exist.'

"These three verbal formulations have been used by Israel, the United States, and the European Union as a rationale for collective punishment of the Palestinian people. 

"The phrases are also used by the media, politicians, and even diplomats interchangeably, as though they mean the same thing. *They do not*.

"'Recognizing Israel' or any other state is a formal legal and diplomatic act by one state with respect to another state. 

"*It is inappropriate  indeed, nonsensical  to talk about a political party or movement extending diplomatic recognition to a state*. 

"To talk of Hamas 'recognizing Israel' is simply to use sloppy, confusing, and deceptive shorthand for the real demand being made of the Palestinians.

"'Recognizing Israel's existence' appears on first impression to involve a relatively straightforward acknowledgment of a fact of life. 

"*Yet there are serious practical problems with this language. What Israel, within what borders, is involved?* 

"Is it the 55 percent of historical Palestine recommended for a Jewish state by the UN General Assembly in 1947? 

"The 78 percent of historical Palestine occupied by the Zionist movement in 1948 and now viewed by most of the world as 'Israel' or 'Israel proper'? 

"*The 100 percent of historical Palestine occupied by Israel since June 1967 and shown as "Israel" (without any 'Green Line') on maps in Israeli schoolbooks?*

What "Israel"?


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## Marc39 (Oct 17, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> The 100 percent of historical Palestine occupied by Israel since June 1967 and shown as "Israel" (without any 'Green Line') on maps in Israeli schoolbooks?



Palestine is the Jewish homeland.  Arabs originated from Arabia.

League of Nations Palestine Mandate...

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions...

An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country. 

The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 17, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErOsqvO-qsQ&feature=related[/ame]


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## docmauser1 (Oct 17, 2010)

More palliwood, of course.


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## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

"*Israel has never defined its own borders, since doing so would necessarily place limits on them*. 

"Still, if this were all that was being demanded of Hamas, it might be possible for the ruling political party to acknowledge, as a fact of life, that a state of Israel exists today within some specified borders. Indeed, Hamas leadership has effectively done so in recent weeks.

"'Recognizing Israel's right to exist,' the actual demand being made of Hamas and Palestinians, is in an entirely different league. This formulation does not address diplomatic formalities or a simple acceptance of present realities. 

"*It calls for a moral judgment*.

"There is an enormous difference between 'recognizing Israel's existence' and 'recognizing Israel's right to exist.'

"*From a Palestinian perspective, the difference is in the same league as the difference between asking a Jew to acknowledge that the Holocaust happened and asking him to concede that the Holocaust was morally justified*. 

"For Palestinians to acknowledge the occurrence of the Nakba  the expulsion of the great majority of Palestinians from their homeland between 1947 and 1949  is one thing. 

"*For them to publicly concede that it was 'right' for the Nakba to have happened would be something else entirely*. 

"For the Jewish and Palestinian peoples, the Holocaust and the Nakba, respectively, represent catastrophes and injustices on an unimaginable scale that can neither be forgotten nor forgiven."

What is Israel's...


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## jillian (Oct 18, 2010)

shouldn't you losers be posting on Al Jazeera?

you should both go put your money where your ignorant lying mouths are.


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## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

Would it completely destroy your faith in the "Rule of Law" if the Jewish State of Israel is just another lie the rich tell?


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## jillian (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Would it completely destroy your faith in the "Rule of Law" if the Jewish State of Israel is just another lie the rich tell?



if it is, boy did hitler screw up. why do you hate jews so much that you try to pretend there's no such thing? perhaps that's the big issue here.

but seriously, go put your money where your ignorant mouth is


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## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

Do you think it's possible to support the Jewish State of Israel without condoning the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Do you think it's possible to support the Jewish State of Israel without condoning the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza?_


Is there any occupation outside of the palistainian occupational?


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## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Do you think it's possible to support the Jewish State of Israel without condoning the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza?



Jihadi Georgie, the West Bank and Gaza and the rest of Palestine are Jewish land, historically and legally.

League of Nations' Palestine Mandate...
"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country"

"An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country. "

"The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home. "

Your lesson for the day, Jihadi Georgie


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## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
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"# *Resolution 242* (November 22, 1967): Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area. 

"*Calls on Israel's neighbors to end the state of belligerency and calls upon Israel to reciprocate by withdraw its forces from land claimed by other parties in 1967 war*. 

"Interpreted commonly today as calling for the Land for peace principle as a way to resolve Arab-Israeli conflict."

This is the only occupation involved. 
The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

List of UN resolutions...


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## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


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Jihadi Georgie, as I have already instructed you, UN Res. 242 is non-binding.  Since you're brain dead, non-binding means it has no force of law and constitutes merely a recommendation.

Furthermore, Jihadi Georgie, 242 does not place unilateral obligations on Israel--242 is predicated on Hamas and other Pallie terrorist factions to make peace with Israel.

Further, still, Israel has fulfilled the terms of 242 in having forfeited Sinai to Egypt, which constituted 95% of the seized land.

Lastly, 242 says nothing about Pallies or the establishment of a Pallie state.

There is no Israeli occupation as there is no Pallie state to be occupied.  The binding Palestine Mandate established ALL of the territory as sovereign Israeli land.

Try to remember, Jihadi Georgie.


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## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> List of UN resolutions...



Not one UN resolution issued vis-s-vis Israel is binding, Jihadi Georgie.  Which means, the Arab and Muslim-controlled UN doesn't even take them seriously.

You enjoy getting smacked down by me, Jihadi Georgie.


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## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


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Poseur:

Did you major in Economics or History at "Princeton"?

"The League of Nations British Mandate of Palestine attempted to make the national home for the Jewish people an article of the Law of Nations,[21] by incorporating the wording of the Balfour Declaration. 

"The mandates were supported by President Woodrow Wilson, but the Senate refused to ratify the Covenant of the League of Nations or the mandates. Senator Borah explained his objections to the mandates:

    When this league, this combination, is formed four great powers representing the dominant people will rule one-half of the inhabitants of the globe as subject peoples &#8211; rule by force, and we shall be a party to the rule of force. There is no other way by which you can keep people in subjection. 

"You must either give them independence, recognize their rights as nations to live their own life and to set up their own form of government, or you must deny them these things by force.[22]

"The British Foreign Secretary, Lord Curzon, together with the Italian and French governments rejected early drafts of the mandate because it had contained a passage which read:

    "'Recognizing, moreover, the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and the claim which this gives them to reconstitute it their national home...'"

"The Palestine Committee set up by the Foreign Office recommended that the reference to 'the claim' be omitted. The Allies had already noted the historical connection in the Treaty of Sèvres, *but they had recognized no legal claim*. 

"They felt that whatever might be done for the Jewish people was based entirely on sentimental grounds. 

"*Further, they felt that all that was necessary was to make room for Zionists in Palestine, not that they should turn 'it', that is the whole country, into their home.* 

"Lord Balfour suggested an alternative which was accepted:

    '"Whereas recognition has thereby [i.e. by the Treaty of Sèvres] been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine, and to the *[sentimental]* grounds for reconstituting their National Home in that country ...'"

Sentiment and subjugation not history or law form the bedrock of Israel's colonization of Palestine.

If you're still too chickenshit to post your Wiki, at least try reading...Maybe your lying will improve...

United Nations Partition...


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## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> The League of Nations British Mandate of Palestine attempted to make the national home for the Jewish people an article of the Law of Nations,[21] by incorporating the wording of the Balfour Declaration.



Jihadi Georgie, you cut and paste, but, you really are clueless.

The Balfour Declaration was non-binding.  The Palestine Mandate, separate from the British Mandate, constitutes a binding treaty and international law.

The Palestine Mandate, establishing Palestine as the Jewish homeland, says not one word about Palestinians or any other Arabs, and it has never been revoked, protected by the UN Charter.

Your lesson for the day, Jihadi Georgie.


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## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The mandates were supported by President Woodrow Wilson, but the Senate refused to ratify the Covenant of the League of Nations or the mandates. Senator Borah explained his objections to the mandates



Jihadi Georgie, the US was not a member of the League of Nations and, thus, was not empowered to "ratify" the mandate system.   You dummy.

However, both Houses of the US Congress expressed their unanimous support for the Palestine Mandate, establishing Palestine as the Jewish homeland, and stated the historical connection between Palestine and the Jewish People in the following joint resolution...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 
*National Home for 
THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922 
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED*
"Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.

Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.

A perusal of Jewish history, a reading of Josephus, will convince the most skeptical that the grandest fight that was ever put up against an enemy was put up by the Jew. He never thought of leaving Palestine. But he was driven out. But did he, when driven out, give up his hope of getting back? Jewish history and Jewish literature give the answer to the question. The Jew even has a fast day devoted to the day of destruction of the Jewish homeland.

Never throughout history did they give up hope of returning there. I am told that 90 per cent of the Jews today are praying for the return of the Jewish people to its own home. The best minds among them believe in the necessity of reestablishing their Jewish land. To my mind there is something prophetic in the fact that during the ages no other nation has taken over Palestine and held it in the sense of a homeland; and there is something providential in the fact that for 1,800 years it has remained in desolation as if waiting for the return of the people."


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## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

Poseur:

Prove the Palestine Mandate is a binding treaty.


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## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Poseur:
> 
> Prove the Palestine Mandate is a binding treaty.



The Palestine Mandate constitutes an international treaty among the 51 nation-states representing the full international body of the League of Nations.

Now, even you know, dummy.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "The mandates were supported by President Woodrow Wilson, but the Senate refused to ratify the Covenant of the League of Nations or the mandates. Senator Borah explained his objections to the mandates
> ...


That same 1922 House of Representatives sanctified Jim Crow.
Most of the racists in the '22 House supported lynching black men who whistled at White women.
Sounds like Zionists to me.

Still waiting for your "Princeton" GPA and your Wiki

Poseur


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



You're done, Georgie.  Run to mommy.  It's feeding time.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Poseur:
> ...


In the same way Israelis bought $20 billion worth of US goods in 2009?

Key word: PROVE the Palestine Mandate is legally binding today.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...


What was your Major at "Princeton"?

Do you ever remember meeting your mommy?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



The Palestine Mandate represents a multilateral treaty, Georgie, which constitutes international law.

Open a book, high school dropout.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"Further, they felt that all that was necessary was to make room for Zionists in Palestine, not that they should turn 'it', that is the whole country, into their home._


So feisty. Without asking about who was that arab, who authored the drivel, and without addressing the dubious reliability of wikipodia, we should ask then, why Winston hacked 75% of "Palestine" off to the arabian peninsula ancestors of the current jordanian royal behind in 1922? Seems like too many "national homes" for arabs.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

"...Israel has never claimed legal title to all of the territory of the former British Mandate of Palestine. On the contrary, it has repeatedly denied such a claim in official statements and acts. 

"On May 22, 1948, soon after Israel's declaration of independence, the country's representative to the U.N. Security Council stated that its territory was 'the area outlined in the map appended to the resolution of 29 November 1947, as constituting the area assigned to the Jewish state' -- namely that area accorded to the nascent Israel by the U.N. Partition Plan contained in General Assembly Resolution 181. 

"*This did not include the West Bank*. 

"The same view was consistently expressed by Israeli courts. 

"*In 1950, Israel's Supreme Court ruled, 'The territory of the state of Israel does not coincide with all the territory under the former mandate.*' 

"Israel thus refused to be seen as the successor state to the Palestinian mandate. Accordingly, it refused to accede to treaties that bound the mandate and refused to pay the public debt that Palestine owed to Britain. 

"*How then can there be a right of Israeli settlement in the West Bank, territory to which Israel itself has never made legal claim?"*

Why do you suppose Israel refused to accede to mandate treaties?

Possibly for the same reason Israel has never formally declared borders?

International Law...


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "...Israel has never claimed legal title to all of the territory of the former British Mandate of Palestine. On the contrary, it has repeatedly denied such a claim in official statements and acts.



Wrong, again, high school dropout Georgie.

The San Remo Resolution transferred sovereignty over Palestine from the Ottoman Turks to the Jews in 1920.

Now, you know, dummy.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> ifamericansknew.org



Bogus website, Uneducated Georgie.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "*This did not include the West Bank*


*

Wrong, clueless Georgie.

The League of Nations' Palestine Mandate establishing Palestine as the Jewish homeland includes all territory from the Jordan River to the Med. Sea.

The original Mandate even included Eastern Palestine (TransJordan), which was amended when the British gave Eastern Palestine to the Hashemite trash from the Hijaz.

Western Palestine--The West Bank--is included in the Jewish homeland.

Now, you know, Georgie*


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "...Israel has never claimed legal title to all of the territory of the former British Mandate of Palestine. On the contrary, it has repeatedly denied such a claim in official statements and acts.
> ...


"The same view was consistently expressed by Israeli courts. In 1950, Israel's Supreme Court ruled, "The territory of the state of Israel does not coincide with all the territory under the former mandate." Israel thus refused to be seen as the successor state to the Palestinian mandate."

True or False?

"Princeton"

International Law


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"The same view was consistently expressed by Israeli courts. In 1950, Israel's Supreme Court ruled, "The territory of the state of Israel does not coincide with all the territory under the former mandate." Israel thus refused to be seen as the successor state to the Palestinian mandate."_


Why doesn't that protocomrade site publish the context? Case name? Do they think that, everyone must be dumb to buy that just like that?


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _... U.N. Partition Plan contained in General Assembly Resolution 181. This did not include the West Bank._



After arabs dissed the resolution 181, thumping subsequent reoslutions is a pointless occupation.
Starting wars may end in a loss of the real estate, of course. Fact of life. Another lesson arabs should be learning, but they won't learn.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> ["The same view was consistently expressed by Israeli courts. In 1950, Israel's Supreme Court ruled, "The territory of the state of Israel does not coincide with all the territory under the former mandate." Israel thus refused to be seen as the successor state to the Palestinian mandate.



Uneducated Georgie, your website is bogus.

The Palestine Mandate includes all of Palestine as the Jewish homeland...
"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country"

"The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, *close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes." *


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

"What are the occupied territories?

After the 1947-48 war, the new state of Israel was created in 78 percent of what had been British Mandate Palestine under the League of Nations since 1922. 

"The 22 percent that was left was made up of the Gaza Strip, a small piece of land along the Mediterranean coast abutting the Egyptian border, the West Bank, along the Jordan River, and Arab East Jerusalem. 

"From the end of the British Mandate in 1948 until the June War of 1967, the Gaza Strip was controlled by Egypt, the West Bank and East Jerusalem governed by Jordan.

In the 1967 War, Israel took over the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, the last 22 percent of historic Palestine. 

"*Those areas are now identified as the occupied territories.*"


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "What are the occupied territories?
> 
> After the 1947-48 war, the new state of Israel was created in 78 percent of what had been British Mandate Palestine under the League of Nations since 1922.
> 
> ...



The Palestine Mandate which establishes ALL of Palestine as the Jewish homeland, has never expired, protected by the UN Charter.

There is no mention of a Pallie state in the Palestine Mandate.  Nor, is there a Pallie state, today, to be occupied.
Pallies rejected statehood conferred by the UN in 1947.

Now, you know, Clueless Georgie.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 18, 2010)

So says Linkless Poseur.

Got any proof?

Thought so.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> So says Linkless Poseur.
> 
> Got any proof?
> 
> Thought so.



Read the Palestine Mandate, Clueless One.  Too bad you dropped out of high school, eh?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> So says Linkless Poseur.
> 
> Got any proof?
> 
> Thought so.



Jihadi Georgie, read the UN Charter, which protects the Palestine Mandate from termination.

Do your homework so I don't have to do it for you, jackass


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "*This did not include the West Bank*
> ...


*

And when the Jewish homeland thing flopped they twisted arms to pass resolution 181. When 181 flopped Israel simply attacked the civilian population of Palestine and stole their land.*


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 19, 2010)

One of the myths that many Americans still believe is that the initial war
between the Arabs and Israelis broke out on May 15, 1948 when the British
withdrew and military units from Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Syria entered
Palestine, allegedly because the Arabs had rejected a partition plan that the
Israelis accepted.

"In fact, the fighting began almost six months earlier, immediately after
the partition plan was announced. 

*By the time the Arab armies intervened in
May, some 400,000 Palestinians already had fled or been driven from their
homes*. 

"*To the Arab nations the military forces they sent to Palestine were on
a rescue mission to halt the dispossession of Palestinians from the areas the
U.N. had awarded to both the Jewish and the Palestinian Arab state*. 

"In fact history has revealed that the Jordanian forces had orders not to venture into areas the U.N. had awarded to Israel.

"Although the newly created Israeli government didnt formally reject
the partition plan, in practice it never accepted the plan.

"*To this day, half a century later, Israel still refuses to define its borders.* (1998)

"In fact, when the fighting of 1947 and 1948 ended, the State of Israel occupied half of Jerusalem and 78 percent of *the former mandate of Palestine*. 

"About 750,000 Muslim and Christian Palestinians had been driven from towns, villages and homes to which the Israeli forces never allowed them to return.

"The four wars that followed, three of them started by Israel in 1956, 1967, and 1982, and one of them started by Egypt and Syria to recover their occupied lands in 1973, have been over the portions of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt which the Israelis occupied militarily in those wars, the other half of Jerusalem, and the 22 percent of Palestine  comprising the West Bank and
Gaza  which is all that remains for the Palestinians."

The Cost...PP 3-4


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "What are the occupied territories?
> ...



The Palestinians did not reject statehood. They rejected giving half their country to a bunch of foreign crooks.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



You're way out of your depth, as usual.  Pallies went to war with the Jews one day after rejecting UN Res. 181. 

Palestine has never in history been a an Arab country, dummy.  For 400 years, it was viewed by Arabs as part of Syria and was under Ottoman Turkish control, who were not Arabs.  Earlier, it was controled by the Mamluks, not Arabs.

The correct historical term for the territory is Judea and Canaan.  "Jew" is derived from Judea.

The word "Palestine" is a Latin-derived word invented by the Romans in 135 AD based on "Palaestina" that they renamed Judea after the Philistines, who were Aegean, not Arab.

Thus, there is nothing Palestinian about Palestine.

Middle East historian Bernard Lewis edifies...
"For Arabs, too, the term Palestine was unacceptable, though for other reasons. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. *For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [Syria].  Palestine was not a country and had no frontiers, only administrative boundaries; it was a group of provincial subdivisions, by no means always the same, within a larger entity.  For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.*"

Your history lesson for the day.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



You're way out of your depth. The Zionists began invading Palestine around the turn of the century.

Your history lesson for the day.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You're clueless.  Jews lived in Canaan thousands of years before Muhammad was even hatched.

The Ottoman Turks who controlled "Palestine" permitted Jewish immigration.

In fact, the few Arabs who owned land sold it to the Jews...

Palestine Royal Commission...
"The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. *Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land [to Jews] and the profitable investment of the purchase money. *The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.[/quote]

Your lesson for the day, shit-for-brains


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 19, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "...Israel has never claimed legal title to all of the territory of the former British Mandate of Palestine. On the contrary, it has repeatedly denied such a claim in official statements and acts.
> 
> "On May 22, 1948, soon after Israel's declaration of independence, the country's representative to the U.N. Security Council stated that its territory was 'the area outlined in the map appended to the resolution of 29 November 1947, as constituting the area assigned to the Jewish state' -- namely that area accorded to the nascent Israel by the U.N. Partition Plan contained in General Assembly Resolution 181.
> 
> ...



Israel has never claimed legal title to any of Palestine.

Not one square inch of Palestine falls inside any Israeli border.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Israel has never claimed legal title to any of Palestine.
> 
> Not one square inch of Palestine falls inside any Israeli border.



You just made this up, Tin Head.  Jews formally accepted UN Res. 181 conferring Israeli statehood in "Palestine"  Arabs rejected statehood.

Every square inch of Palestine is sovereign Israeli land per the binding Palestine Mandate...
"Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country"

"The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions..."

"An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country. "

"The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, *close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes" *


Your lesson for the day, moron


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 19, 2010)

"The Zionists made no secret of their intentions, for as early as 1921, Dr. Eder, a member of the Zionist Commission, boldly told the Court of Inquiry, there can be only one National Home in Palestine, and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership between Jews and Arabs, but a Jewish preponderance as soon as the numbers of the race are sufficiently increased. 

"*He then asked that only Jews should be allowed to bear arms. Sami Hadawi, Bitter Harvest.*

Some things never change...

"Clearly, the last thing the Zionists really wanted was that all the inhabitants of Palestine should have an equal say in running the country... 

"*[Chaim] Weizmann had impressed on Churchill that representative government would have spelled the end of the [Jewish] National Home in Palestine.*.. 

"[Churchill declared,] The present form of government will continue for many years. Step by step we shall develop representative institutions leading to full self-government, but our childrens children will have passed away before that is accomplished. David Hirst, The Gun and the Olive Branch.

Winston Churchill...handmaiden to the rich until the day he died...and still proving useful to apartheid everywhere.

The Origin


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 19, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The Zionists made no secret of their intentions, for as early as 1921, Dr. Eder, a member of the Zionist Commission, boldly told the Court of Inquiry, &#8216;there can be only one National Home in Palestine, and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership between Jews and Arabs, but a Jewish preponderance as soon as the numbers of the race are sufficiently increased.&#8217;



Georgie, you didn't read the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement of cooperation between the Jews and Arabs...


> Main points of the agreement:
> The agreement committed both parties to conducting all relations between the groups by the most cordial goodwill and understanding, to work together to encourage immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale while protecting the rights of the Arab peasants and tenant farmers, and to safeguard the free practice of religious observances. The Muslim Holy Places were to be under Muslim control.
> The Zionist movement undertook to assist the Arab residents of Palestine and the future Arab state to develop their natural resources and establish a growing economy.
> The boundaries between an Arab State and Palestine should be determined by a Commission after the Paris Peace Conference.
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faisal–Weizmann_Agreement

Georgie, you didn't read the Israeli Declaration of Independence conferring equal rights to all Israeli Arabs...


> THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of the Exiles; it will foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations.


http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace Pro...claration of Establishment of State of Israel

Georgie gets another new asshole ripped.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 19, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> [Churchill declared,] &#8216;The present form of government will continue for many years. Step by step we shall develop representative institutions leading to full self-government, but our children&#8217;s children will have passed away before that is accomplished.&#8217;&#8221;



Winston Churchill on the murderous Muslim monster...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/River-War-Sir-Winston-Churchill/dp/1598184253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287532550&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The River War (9781598184259): Sir Winston S. Churchill: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Israel has never claimed legal title to any of Palestine.
> ...



The homeland for the Jews thing flopped.

Resolution 181 was never implemented.

The 1948 war ended with Israel left empty handed.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The only thing that has flopped is your education, moron.

Jews are the first inhabitants of "Palestine" who are still in existence.

Open a history book, dummy.  You humiliate yourself.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Resolution 181 was never implemented.



The Palestine Mandate that preceded UN Res. 181 by 30 years establishing Palestine as the Jewish homeland has been implemented, Tin Head.

UN Res. 181 was merely a symbol of international legitimacy for Israel.

Now, you know, stooge.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 19, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> The homeland for the Jews thing flopped.



Warren Buffett knows better, Tin Head.  Go back to masturbating in your room, your only achievement in life.

Warren Buffett, Multi-Billion Dollar Purchase of Successful Israeli Company...


> Israel is exceptional.  I can give you an absolute, unequivocal answer.  You can go around the world and it's very impressive to see a country of 7 million create a business like this, I haven't seen anything like this in the US.
> 
> When you think about it, if you compare Israel (now) to 1948, it's very, very impressive.  It's a remarkable place


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV3W_86NTYA[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 19, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "The Zionists made no secret of their intentions, for as early as 1921, Dr. Eder, a member of the Zionist Commission, boldly told the Court of Inquiry, &#8216;there can be only one National Home in Palestine, and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership between Jews and Arabs, but a Jewish preponderance as soon as the numbers of the race are sufficiently increased.&#8217;
> ...


"What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that *Israel could be a wholly Jewish state*, or as much as was possible. 

"*Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present).*

"The mythic &#8220;land without people for a people without land&#8221; was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919. 

"*This is the root of the problem, as we shall see."*

The Origin


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state[/B], or as much as was possible.



Georgie, open a history book.  Arabs were offered statehood in 1947 by the UN which they rejected.

And, today, there are 1.5 million Israeli Arabs.

Thus, nobody was dispossessed.  Except, the 1 million Jews expelled from Arab countries in 1948.

And, the 400,000 Pallies expelled by Kuwait.

And, the 80,000 Pallies killed and expelled by Jordan during Black September.  

Historian Benny Morris knows better, you moron...


> *The Palestinian Arabs were not responsible in some bizarre way for what befell them in 1948. Their responsibility was very direct and simple.
> 
> In defiance of the will of the international community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947 (No. 181), they launched hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps destroying that community. But they lost; and one of the results was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.*
> 
> ...


1948 - Morris, Benny - Yale University Press


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 21, 2010)

"Thus, nobody was dispossessed...

Then you quote Benny Morris who "knows better":

"In defiance of the will of the international community...they launched hostilities against the Jewish community *in Palestine*...But they lost; and one of the results was *the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.*"

Which is it?

Nobody was displaced?

Or 700,000 were displaced from their homes?

You and Benny also conveniently "forget" how the Jews had been waging civil war against Arabs in Palestine for almost six months BEFORE UNGAR 181 was declared.

btw, are General Assembly Resolutions *binding*?

Now you know why Jew rhymes with lose.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 21, 2010)

Over a five year period that saw 97 cases of Palestinian complaints of damage to their (mostly) olive trees not one single perpetrator has been convicted.

"In an examination of around 100 Palestinian complaints of damage to their trees, Yesh Din researchers found that the police investigations did not result in a single indictment, with cases closed on grounds of insufficient evidence or 'unknown perpetrator.'

Conducted over a five-year period, the study tracked 97 cases where trees were vandalised, most of them olive trees, the group said.

"'Not a single one of the monitored 97 cases under police investigation has yielded an indictment against those suspected of involvement in vandalising Palestinian-owned trees,' said Yesh Din (Volunteers for Human Rights)."

"Annual figures compiled by Yesh Din about complaints of settler offences against Palestinians have repeatedly shown that nine out of 10 police investigations fail to lead to a prosecution."

Settler Damage


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Over a five year period that saw 97 cases of Palestinian complaints of damage to their (mostly) olive trees not one single perpetrator has been convicted.



Over a 4 year period, sub-human Pestilinians murdered 1000 Israelis and wounded 6000 more, the equivalent of Americans killed in the Viet Name war.

Pulitzer Prize winning writer George Will...


> In the intifada that began in 2000, Palestinian terrorism killed more than 1,000 Israelis. As a portion of U.S. population, that would be 42,000, approaching the toll of America's eight years in Vietnam. During the onslaught, which began 10 Septembers ago, Israeli parents sending two children to a school would put them on separate buses to decrease the chance that neither would return for dinner. Surely most Americans can imagine, even if their tone-deaf leaders cannot, how grating it is when those leaders lecture Israel on the need to take "risks for peace."


George F. Will - Skip the lecture on Israel's 'risks for peace'


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 21, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Over a five year period that saw 97 cases of Palestinian complaints of damage to their (mostly) olive trees not one single perpetrator has been convicted.
> ...



Interesting legal question. Is the attack on illegal aliens who occupy your country by military force legal or illegal?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 21, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



The "country" the entire world community recognized was inhabited by Jews for thousands of years before Arabs invaded from Arabia.

Open a book, high school dropout.

League of Nations...


> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country


The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 23, 2010)

"Had the Zionist leadership admitted the existence of an indigenous people, then they would have been obliged to explain how they intended to displace them. 

"To disprove this baseless myth, *let's quote Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister) who stated as early as 1918 that 'Palestine is not an empty country'*. 

"According to Shabtai Teveth (one of Ben-Gurion's official biographers), Ben-Gurion stated in an article published in 1918 that:

    "Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants." 

'Think David made any money from injuring the rights of Palestinians?

More lies the Rich tell.

Isn't it true...


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Had the Zionist leadership admitted the existence of an indigenous people, then they would have been obliged to explain how they intended to displace them.



Jews are the indigenous people of Judea, the correct historical geographic name of Palestine.  "Jewish" is derived from Judea.

Arabs are indigenous to Arabia.  Arab=Arabia.

Millions of Arabs flooded into Judea as recently as the 1940s in order to sponge off of Jews.

British Palestine Royal Commission...


> *The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine [brought about by Jews]*. *Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land [to Jews] and the profitable investment of the purchase money.* The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. *This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.*
> The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. *The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.*


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Israel-History-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0688123635/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287851305&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 23, 2010)

What was the Arab population of Palestine in 1918?

How many Jews called Palestine home in the same year?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> What was the Arab population of Palestine in 1918?



The Arab population that migrated to "Judea," where Jews were the indigenous population, from Arabia.

Jews should have kicked the sand rats back to Arabia where they belong.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 23, 2010)

Did you learn that at "Princeton"?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Did you learn that at "Princeton"?



You learn from me, high school dropout.


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## georgephillip (Oct 23, 2010)

"According to official estimates, the population of Palestine grew from 750,000 at the census of 1922 to 1,765,000 at the end of 1944. 

"In this period the Jewish part of the population rose from 84,000 to 554,000, and from 13 to 31 percent of the whole. Three-fourths of this expansion of the Jewish community was accounted for by immigration. 

"Meanwhile the Arabs, though their proportion of the total population was falling, had increased by an even greater number-the Moslems alone from 589,000 to 1,061,000.*"  

What entitled Jews to 55% of the land?


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## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> What entitled Jews to 55% of the land?



History: Judea is the historic homeland of the Jewish people
Law: San Remo Resolution transferring sovereignty over Palestine from Ottoman Turks to Jews and League of Nations' Palestine Mandate establishing Palestine as the Jewish homeland.

Georgie, don't worry so much about the 8,000 square miles of Israel.  The sand rat Arabs have 8,000,000 square miles.

Feel better?


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## docmauser1 (Oct 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"According to Shabtai Teveth (one of Ben-Gurion's official biographers), Ben-Gurion stated in an article published in 1918 that:"Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants."_


Yeah, and this one's from the intifada-palestine: "We must do everything to insure they never do return." And this one's from Hari: "We will expel the Arabs, the Arabs would have to go.". Can't you, my dear delusional fans, get your quote forgeries straight at least in lies?


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## georgephillip (Oct 23, 2010)

"The PLUNDER and LOOTING of Palestinian homes, farms, plantations, banks, cars, ports, railroads, schools, hospitals, trucks, tractors, etc. in the course of the 1948 war were a crime on a massive scale. 

"For example, the looting of Lydda City was described by the Israeli Ministerial Committee for Abandoned Property in mid-July, 1948:

    "'From Lydda alone, the army took out 1,800 truck-loads of property.' (1949, The First Israelis, p. 69)

"It should be noted that the great majority of the Palestinian people have been dispossessed for the past five decades, meanwhile, their properties are being used by mostly European Jews (who were victims of similar war crimes committed by anti-Semitic Europeans). 

"*Prior to being ethnically cleansed in 1948, the Palestinian people owned and operated 93% of Palestine's lands, and contributed up to 55-60% of its national Gross Domestic Product (GDP)*.

Looting, Plunder...


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > What entitled Jews to 55% of the land?
> ...



Then Israel destroyed Palestine and along with it the Jewish homeland.

Palestine is still the homeland of the Jews.


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## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The PLUNDER and LOOTING of Palestinian homes, farms, plantations, banks, cars, ports, railroads, schools, hospitals, trucks, tractors, etc. in the course of the 1948 war were a crime on a massive scale.



Er, Georgie, multiple Arab countries ganged up on Israel in an attempt to destroy Israel and commit another Jewish Holocaust.

Your time spent posting ahistorical nonsense could be far better spent undergoing psychiatric counseling for your severe mental disorder.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "The PLUNDER and LOOTING of Palestinian homes, farms, plantations, banks, cars, ports, railroads, schools, hospitals, trucks, tractors, etc. in the course of the 1948 war were a crime on a massive scale.
> ...



The attack by Arab countries is a lie.


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## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



The Arab League issued a declaration of war in 1948, stupid little boy.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...


> On 29 November, 1947, the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted a resolution approving the partition of mandatory Palestine into three components:  a Jewish state, an Arab state, and an international zone.  As the Mandate came to an end, the Jews began to form their state; *the Palestinian Arab leaders and the Arab governments rejected the partition resolution and went to war to prevent its implementation.  *


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1287859573&sr=8-3]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]


You mo-ron.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



They attacked the invaders.

So?


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## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Muslims invaded, stupid little boy...
Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## georgephillip (Oct 23, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > What entitled Jews to 55% of the land?
> ...


Speaking of San Remo:

"San Remo Resolution - April 25, 1920

"It was agreed &#8211;

(a) To accept the terms of the Mandates Article as given below with reference to Palestine, on the understanding that there was inserted in the process-verbal an undertaking by the Mandatory Power that *this would not involve the surrender of the rights hitherto enjoyed by the non-Jewish communities in Palestine*;

San Remo - Wiki

Every time brain-dead retards use racist slurs like "sand rats" I feel much better.

Keep it up, retard.


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## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Georgie, your history lesson for the day, brainless one...

San Remo Resolution...


> *The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,* it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country


San Remo conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 23, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIh8Kky541g&feature=related[/ame]


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## docmauser1 (Oct 23, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIh8Kky541g&feature=related_


Must be arab agitprop garbage, of course.


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## georgephillip (Oct 23, 2010)

Of course...

"As of 1947, Jews in Palestine owned UNDER 7% of the Palestine's lands, and after the 1948 war 80% of the Palestinian people were DISPOSSESSED of their homes, farms, and businesses..."

Palestine and Zion...


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Of course...
> 
> "As of 1947, Jews in Palestine owned UNDER 7% of the Palestine's lands, and after the 1948 war 80% of the Palestinian people were DISPOSSESSED of their homes, farms, and businesses..."



You lie, Georgie.  It's pathological.

1 million Jews were dispossessed by Arab countries in 1948.
400,000 Pallies were dispossessed by Kuwait
80,000 Pallies were dispossessed by Jordan.

No Arabs were dispossessed by Jews, clueless Georgie.  The UN offered them statehood which they rejected.

Today, 1.5 million Arabs live in Israel.

Get a clue, dummy.


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## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> http://www.youtube.com/=rIh8Kky541g&feature=related



Palliewood Films.  Produced by Tin Head the psycho.


----------



## hipeter924 (Oct 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The PLUNDER and LOOTING of Palestinian homes, farms, plantations, banks, cars, ports, railroads, schools, hospitals, trucks, tractors, etc. in the course of the 1948 war were a crime on a massive scale.
> 
> "For example, the looting of Lydda City was described by the Israeli Ministerial Committee for Abandoned Property in mid-July, 1948:
> 
> ...








Now go become a Muslim, you are good at covering up history, so maybe Turkey is a good place for you.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 23, 2010)

"During the war and afterwards PLUNDERING AND LOOTING were very common. 'The only thing that surprised me," said David Ben-Gurion at a Cabinet meeting, 'and surprised me bitterly, was the discovery of such moral failings among us, which I had never suspected. 

"'*I mean the mass robbery in which all parts of the population participated*.' 

"Soldiers who entered abandoned houses in the towns and villages they occupied grabbed whatever they could. Some took the stuff for themselves, others 'for the boys' or for the kibbutz. 

"*They stole household effects, cash, heavy equipment, trucks and whole flocks of cattle*. 

"Behor Shitrit told his colleagues of the Ministerial Committee for Abandoned Property that he had visited some of the occupied areas and saw the looting with his own eyes. "From Lydda alone," he said, 'the army took out 1,800 truck-loads of property.' 

"Minister of Finance Kaplan admitted: ' As a matter of fact, neither the Ministry of Finance nor the Custodian of Abandoned Property is in control of the situation, and the army does what it wants.' 

"The Custodian, Dov Shafrir, told the ministers that the regional commanders and their adjutants wanted to stop the looting, "'but not the storekeepers of the various companies and squads.'"

Looting, Looting...


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## Marc39 (Oct 23, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "During the war and afterwards PLUNDERING AND LOOTING were very common.



The war initiated by multiple Arab countries intent on destroying Israel and committing another Jewish Holocaust.

Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...


> On 29 November, 1947, the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted a resolution approving the partition of mandatory Palestine into three components:  a Jewish state, an Arab state, and an international zone.  As the Mandate came to an end, the Jews began to form their state; the Palestinian Arab leaders and the Arab governments rejected the partition resolution and went to war to prevent its implementation.


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1287889290&sr=8-4]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Oct 24, 2010)

Between 29 November 1947 when the UN announced its partition plan awarding 55% of Mandate Palestine to the Jews who owned less than 20% of the land and comprised one-third of the total population and 15 May 1948 when the British Mandate expired, conditions of civil war existed throughout Palestine.

"According to Benny Morris, the result of these five and a half months of fighting was a 'decisive Jewish victory'. 

"On one side, the 'Palestinian Arab military power was crushed' and *most of the population was fleeing or had been driven out*. 

"On the other side, the 'Haganah transformed from a militia into an army' and succeeded 'in consolidating its hold on a continuous strip of territory embracing the Coastal Plain, the Jezreel Valley, and the Jordan Valley'. 

"The Yishuv proved it had the capability to defend itself, persuading the United States and the remaining of the world to support it and the 'victory over the Palestinian Arabs gave the Haganah the experience and self-confidence [...] to confront [...] the invading armies of the Arab states.'[169]

"On 14 May 1948, David Ben-Gurion declared the independence of the state of Israel and the 1948 Palestine war entered its second phase with the intervention of the Arab state armies and the beginning of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War."

1947-1948 Civil War - Wiki


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## Marc39 (Oct 24, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Between 29 November 1947 when the UN announced its partition plan awarding 55% of Mandate Palestine to the Jews who owned less than 20% of the land and comprised one-third of the total population and 15 May 1948 when the British Mandate expired, conditions of civil war existed throughout Palestine.



Clueless Georgie, the UN Partition Plan was non-binding.  Since you're uneducated, non-binding means it had no force of law.

The League of Nations Palestine Mandate, establishing all of Palestine as the Jewish homeland, IS binding and confers no Arab statehood.

As has been demonstrated, you are way out of your depth, Clueless Georgie.

Palestine Mandate...


> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country


The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Now, you know, Clueless Georgie.


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 24, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"As of 1947, Jews in Palestine owned UNDER 7% of the Palestine's lands_


Could've been much more, if it weren't for the McDonald Paper of 1939, of course. Figures.


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## georgephillip (Oct 24, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Between 29 November 1947 when the UN announced its partition plan awarding 55% of Mandate Palestine to the Jews who owned less than 20% of the land and comprised one-third of the total population and 15 May 1948 when the British Mandate expired, conditions of civil war existed throughout Palestine.
> ...


ART. 2.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion."* 

ART. 6.

*The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced*, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.

Do you think "population transfer" violated Articles 2 and 6 of the Palestine Mandate?

Tell me where to find the word "binding" in this Mandate.


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## georgephillip (Oct 24, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > _"As of 1947, Jews in Palestine owned UNDER 7% of the Palestine's lands_
> ...


Approximately 1.2 million Arabs and 600,000 Jews lived in the Mandate in 1948.

If one person one vote had prevailed, do you think a Jewish Homeland in the heart of the Arab Middle East would have occurred?


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## Marc39 (Oct 24, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. *


*

All Israeli citizens are constitutionally guaranteed equal rights.




			The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced[, shall facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes.
		
Click to expand...


See above.

You lose, again, Georgie.  *


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 24, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. *
> ...


*

Got a link to that Israeli constitution there, good buddy?*


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## Marc39 (Oct 24, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Approximately 1.2 million Arabs and 600,000 Jews lived in the Mandate in 1948.



You lose, again, Uneducated Georgie.  Pound sand, sucker!  

Those Arabs were/are illegal aliens who migrated to the area to sponge off of Jews who have sovereignty over the land.

Palestine Royal Commission...


> *The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine*. *Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land [ to Jews ]and the profitable investment of the purchase money*. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. *In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.
> 
> *The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. *The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.*


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Israel-History-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0688123635/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287851305&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


The San Remo Resolution granted sovereignty over Palestine to the Jews.


> The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, *in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people*


San Remo conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 24, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


*

It's called Basic Laws, elevated to constitutional status by the Sureme Court in the 1990s, stupid little boy.

You lose, again, Clueless One  *


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 24, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, *and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. *
> ...


*
Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza are not Israeli citizens; however, they are inhabitants of Palestine and their civil and religious rites are NOT being safeguarded by the Jewish State of Israel.

You didn't mention if Israel's solution to its "Arab Problem" (population transfer) violates Articles 2 and 6 of the Palestine Mandate.*


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## Marc39 (Oct 24, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


*

Palestine doesn't exist, shit-for-brains.

Eminent historian Bernard Lewis...



			The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formally abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.
		
Click to expand...

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]


Under their own fascist Hamas and PLO regimes, Pallies have no rights...
No freedom of speech 
No freedom to protest
Women are forbidden from laughing in public 
Women have acid thrown in their faces if dressed immodestly.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVWk8qjsU8[/ame]*


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## Marc39 (Oct 24, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza are not Israeli citizens; however, they are inhabitants of Palestine and their civil and religious rites are NOT being safeguarded by the Jewish State of Israel.



Georgie, no love from you for the oppressed "Palestinians" in apartheid Lebanon?
You fucking fraud.

Human Rights Watch...


> *"Lebanon has marginalized Palestinian refugees for too long," said Nadim Houry, Beirut director at Human Rights Watch. "Parliament should seize this opportunity to turn the page and end discrimination against Palestinians."
> 
> Lebanon's estimated 300,000 Palestinian refugees live in appalling social and economic conditions - most of them in crowded camps that lack essential infrastructure.
> 
> ...


Lebanon: Seize Opportunity to End Discrimination Against Palestinians | Human Rights Watch


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 24, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



I just want to see that constitutionally guaranteed equal rights part that you mention regularly.


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## Marc39 (Oct 24, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Moron, all you want to see is porn, which you masturbate to all day in your bedroom.


----------



## hipeter924 (Oct 24, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...


Don't forgot the veiled women of the night.


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## P F Tinmore (Oct 24, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



So, you are just lying about that constitutionally guaranteed equal rights thing.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 24, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I'm not lying about you holding your dick thing all day, psycho.


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## Marc39 (Oct 25, 2010)

hipeter924 said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



And, the kiddie porn, starring Aisha.  Produced by Muhammad the pedophile profit.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 25, 2010)

"*Johnnies*"

"It was the first week of the war, fighting was intense, there were explosive charges to expose, tunnels in open spaces and armed men inside houses. Warfare was slow and basically a very small area was occupied. 

"Every unit, every force had a rather small designated area of several dozen houses only, which they had to take over, and that took a whole week. 

"That is warfare and that took a whole week. They really moved slowly. Close in on each house. The method used has a new name now - no longer 'neighbor procedure.' 

"*Now people are called 'Johnnie.' They're Palestinian civilians, and they're called Johnnies and there were civilians there who stayed in spite of the flyers the army distributed before it went in.* 

"Most people did leave, but some civilians stayed to watch over the houses. 

"*Perhaps they had nowhere else to go. Later we saw people there who could not walk, some simply stayed to keep watch*. 

"To every house we close in on, we send the neighbor in, 'the Johnnie,' and if there are armed men inside, we start, like working the 'pressure cooker' in the West Bank."

Human shields by any name.

Breaking the Silence


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 25, 2010)

Breaking the Silence has been debunked as a fraud, Nazi Georgie.

Decorated war hero Colonel Richard Kemp has testified under oath as to the ethical and professional conduct of the IDF...


> I am the former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan. I served with NATO and the United Nations; commanded troops in Northern Ireland, Bosnia and Macedonia; and participated in the Gulf War. I spent considerable time in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, and worked on international terrorism for the UK Governments Joint Intelligence Committee.
> 
> Mr. President, based on my knowledge and experience, *I can say this: During Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare.
> 
> ...


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX6vyT8RzMo[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 25, 2010)

"Mr. President, Israel had no choice apart from defending its people, to stop Hamas from attacking them with rockets."

Another transparent lie told by those who profit from killing other people's children:

"With Hizbollah and Hamas there can be no political negotiations, though it is worth remembering that *Hamas has repeatedly called for accepting the international consensus* and Hezbollah has stated that it is a Lebanese party and will not disrupt anything that Palestinians accept. 

"*With these non-state actors*, Israel can negotiate other agreements, like the ceasefire agreement with Hamas that Israel accepted formally (though not fully in practice) in June 2008. 

"The government of Israel officially acknowledges that Hamas did not fire a single rocket until Israel violated the ceasefire in November 2008, invading Gaza and killing Hamas activists. 

"*Hamas offered to renew the ceasefire.* 

"*The Israeli cabinet considered the offer, and rejected it, preferring to launch Operation Cast Lead -- sheer criminal aggression, without any justification, because peaceful means were available, as Israel and its US partner knew."* 

Noam Chomsky


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 25, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "chomsky]



Stupid Georgie, Chomsky is just a language teacher.  He's not an authority on international affairs.

You're a clown, fat boy.

I own you


----------



## Joe Six-Pack (Oct 25, 2010)

The misperception of Islam is a very difficult thing to change. We in the United States (And many other places in the world) have this idea that Islam is a religion as we know them. This is true in that Islam has personal restrictions that followers are encouraged to engage in. Such as fasting during Ramadan. Or praying 5 times a day. I do not believe that anyone in the U.S. has any problems with these types of issues. How Muslims work these committments out in their life is their problem. What I have a problem with is that Islam, unlike all other religions that I am aware of, was designed as a form of governace. 

Islam has a complete legal system with jurisprudence that goes back 1400 years. Islam has a foreign policy and an economic policy. It is not just a few 'nutjobs' like we see here in the U.S. that believe that Muslims have an obligation to kill "Occupiers" of Muslim 'lands'. Can you imagine the problems if the Catholic Church had the ability to mobilize it's own militias to defend it's 'land'? Or 'waters'? 

Islam as a form of government is in direct conflict with the responsibilities and authority of the modern national government. A major problem is that Islam as a form of government has been fact for more than a millennia. It is now a cultural thing to have religion control the government, even the army. I cannot think of many other things that could start a war more quickly than have the Catholic Church able to enforce it's laws upon all of us, despite what the U.S. government and military think. To top this off, at least I agree with the Catholic Church on many of it's 'laws'!! Islamic law is about as hostile to me and my way of life that I can imagine. I have studied warfare for more than 40 years. NO other issue will start a war faster than a threat to way of life. This is one major reason as to why so many good southerners defended the evil of slavery.  

Don't take my word for it. Study Islamic law.


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## georgephillip (Oct 25, 2010)

Sounds like good advice.

Would you consider Islam 101 a credible starting point?

"The political system of Islam is based on three principles: Tawhid (unity of Allah), Risalat (Prophethood) and Khilafat (vicegerency). 

"It is difficult to appreciate the different aspects of Islamic polity without fully understanding these three principles.

"I will therefore begin with a brief exposition of what they are."


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 25, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Would you consider Islam 101 a credible starting point?_


The bomb-belt assembly manual is a logical continuation to it, of course.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 25, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Sounds like good advice.
> 
> Would you consider Islam 101 a credible starting point?
> 
> ...



Nonsense.  You know less than nothing about Islam.  

Islam is Arabic for submission.  Islamic principles command all Muslims and non-Muslims to submit to Islam.  Those who refuse must die.

The foundation of Islam is dar al-Islam dar al-Harb: House of Islam/House of War.  Muslims are obligated to be at war with those infidels under the House of War until all either convert to Islam, submit to Islamic rule or be killed.

Foremist Islamic scholar Bernard Lewis...


> Bernard Lewis, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, in The Crisis of Islam...
> For most of the fourteen centuries of recorded Muslim history, jihad was most commonly interpreted to mean armed struggle for the defense or advancement of Muslim power. In Muslim tradition, the world is divided into two houses: the House of Islam (Dar al-Islam), in which Muslim governments rule and Muslim law prevails, and the House of War (Dar al-Harb), the rest of the world, still inhabited and, more important, ruled by infidels. The presumption is that the duty of jihad will continue, interrupted only by truces, until all the world either adopts the Muslim faith or submits to Muslim rule.


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Islam-West-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0195090616/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288032148&sr=1-10]Amazon.com: Islam and the West (9780195090611): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]


Now, you know.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 25, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Sounds like good advice.
> 
> Would you consider Islam 101 a credible starting point?



Your silly website is not an authoritative source.

The Encyclopedia of Islam is the definitive authoritative source on Islam.  

The Encyclopedia of Islam states, correctly so, that jihad--holy war-- is required by Muslims.  It is, in fact, the de facto 6th Pillar.


> In law, according to general doctrine and in historical tradition, the jihad consists of military action with the object of the expansion of Islam and, if need be, of its defense.
> 
> The jihad has the effect of extending the sway of the faith; it is prescribed by God and his Prophet; the Muslim dedicates himself to the jihad in the same way that, in Christianity, the monk dedicates himself to the service of God; in the same vein it is said in different Hadiths that "the jihad is the monasticism of Islam"; the jihad is "an act of pure devotion"; it is "one of the gates to Paradise"; rich heavenly rewards are guaranteed for those who devote themselves to it; those who fall in the jihad are the martyrs of the faith, etc. A substantial part of the doctrine reckons the jihad among the very "pillars" (arkan) of the religion, along with prayer and fasting etc. It is a duty which falls upon every Muslim who is male, free and able-bodied. It is generally considered that non-Muslims may be called upon to assist the Muslims in the jihad


Encyclopaedia of Islam - BRILL


Now, you know.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 25, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > _Would you consider Islam 101 a credible starting point?_
> ...


In the same way the Hellfire missile and pilot-less drone logically extends capitalism?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 25, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



The right to self-defense is accorded all states by international law, psycho


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 25, 2010)

What's the profit margin on a single Hellfire missile?

Obviously it's more than the life of an innocent Pakistani in Waziristan.

Pakistan runs out of patience


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 25, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> What's the profit margin on a single Hellfire missile?
> 
> Obviously it's more than the life of an innocent Pakistani in Waziristan.
> 
> Pakistan runs out of patience



Nazi Georgie, no love from you for the millions slaughtered by your Muslim cohorts in Darfur and southern Sudan?

You're a fraud and a clown.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 27, 2010)

The Jewish State of Israel began with fraud.

And worse:

"Al-Nakba stands as a critical marker in the life of at least three generations of Palestinians since 1947-1948; and it will be indelible in the minds of future Palestinian generations. 

"It is, no doubt, a violent severance and interruption of the Palestinians from their past: from their familiarity with their daily surroundings, their immediate environment, and their natural connection with their milieu. 

"*It is a process that led to the cleansing (i.e., killing and expulsion) of at least 86% of the indigenous Palestinian population that lived in the area that became Israel;* and the erasure of at least 531 of their villages and towns, with *the explicit goal of creating an exclusive Jewish state in the same area."*

Khalil Nakleh


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> The Jewish State of Israel began with fraud.



Israel is the only legitimate country in the Middle East.  

Israel existed not once but twice in antiquity and archaeological artifacts demonstrate Israel existed at least 1300 years ago.

In contrast, not one sovereign Arab country existed prior to World War I. 

Israel is the only country in the world with endorsements from the world community in both the League of Nations and UN.

Barack Obama to UN General Assembly (September 23)... 


> Israel is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people. It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States. And efforts to threaten or kill Israelis will do nothing to help the Palestinian people. The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice


Remarks by the President to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> It is a process that led to the cleansing (i.e., killing and expulsion) of at least 86% of the indigenous Palestinian population that lived in the area that became Israel;[/B] and the erasure of at least 531 of their villages and towns, with *the explicit goal of creating an exclusive Jewish state in the same area."*
> 
> Khalil Nakleh



Bogus website, Georgie.  This is why you're so uneducated.  

You got your history wrong, again, Georgie.

This is for you, Georgie...

Historian Benny Morris...


> The demonisation of Israel is largely based on lies - much as the demonisation of the Jews during the past 2,000 years has been based on lies. And there is a connection between the two.





> *The Palestinian Arabs were not responsible in some bizarre way for what befell them in 1948. Their responsibility was very direct and simple.*
> 
> *In defiance of the will of the international community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947 (No. 181), they launched hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps destroying that community. But they lost; and one of the results was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.*
> 
> ...


1948 - Morris, Benny - Yale University Press


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 27, 2010)

"From the above perspective, and according to all available serious historical analyses, Al-Nakba was not a sudden happening that came from nowhere. 

"What happened in 1947-1948 was a culmination of a colonial settler process, whose aim was (and continues to be) to dislodge the indigenous Arab population of Palestine and replace them with Zionist Jewish settlers from other countries. 

'*These settlers and their descendants spearheaded a systematic process, which started in the early twenties of the last century, of cleansing the land from its Palestinian population, and transforming it to become an extension of the globalized capitalist center.*


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> What happened in 1947-1948 was a culmination of a colonial settler process, whose aim was (and continues to be) to dislodge the indigenous Arab population of Palestine and replace them with Zionist Jewish settlers from other countries.



Georgie, you're so uneducated, it's not even funny.  

Muslims colonized the entire Jewish and Christian Middle East and replaced with Muslims, uneducated one...
Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jews are the indigenous population, uneducated Georgie.  Arabs originate from Arabia.

Winston Churchill, who won a Nobel Prize for historical literature...


> The Jews had Palestine before that indigenous population [the Arabs] came in and inhabited it


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Life-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0805023968/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288226761&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Churchill: A Life (9780805023961): Martin Gilbert: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "From the above perspective, and according to all available serious historical analyses, Al-Nakba was not a sudden happening that came from nowhere.
> 
> "What happened in 1947-1948 was a culmination of a colonial settler process, whose aim was (and continues to be) to dislodge the indigenous Arab population of Palestine and replace them with Zionist Jewish settlers from other countries.
> 
> '*These settlers and their descendants spearheaded a systematic process, which started in the early twenties of the last century, of cleansing the land from its Palestinian population, and transforming it to become an extension of the globalized capitalist center.*



Georgie, the British gave Jordan to the Arabians, which was 80% of Mandate Palestine.  Jordan is 40,000 square miles.  Israel, just 8,000 square miles.

When will you speak with Jordan's King Abdullah about renouncing his throne and giving Jordan to the Pallies?


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 27, 2010)

1948.
Palestine Mandate.
1,220,000 Arab Muslims and Christians.
650,000 Jews.
One person; one vote?

No Jewish homeland in the Arab Middle East.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> 1948.
> No Jewish homeland in the Arab Middle East.



Georgie, the racist, xenophobic  Nazi.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 27, 2010)

1,220, 000 Arabs.

650,000 Jews

One person one vote?

Even a retarded poseur like you can do that math.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> 1,220, 000 Arabs.
> 
> 650,000 Jews
> 
> ...



Palestine is the Jewish homeland.  Arabia is the Muslim homeland.

Allah agrees...
Quran 5:20-21...


> Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.


 
Barack Obama agrees...


> Israel is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people.
> 
> It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States.  The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice


Remarks by the President to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House

Winston Churchill agreed... 


> The Jews had Palestine before that indigenous population [the Arabs] came in and inhabited it


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Jews-Friendship-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0805078800]Amazon.com: Churchill and the Jews: A Lifelong Friendship (9780805078800): Martin Gilbert: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

The League of Nations agreed...


> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country


 
The US Congress agrees...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 
NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922 
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED


> Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.
> 
> Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.
> 
> ...


 
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688123635/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0688123627&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HX00TRZAFXPP1PG6MNR]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 27, 2010)

Remember Moses and the virgins?

Remember Moses telling parents to stone their children to death for indiscipline?

Why do Jews naturally gravitate towards slavery?

Something in your religion?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Remember Moses and the virgins?
> 
> Remember Moses telling parents to stone their children to death for indiscipline?
> 
> ...



Remember Moses' s 10 Commandments: Thou Shall Not Murder

Remember Allah's Islamic Commandment: Thou Shall Murder

Quran 2:216...


> Jihâd (holy fighting in Allâh's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allâh knows but you do not know.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 27, 2010)

Moses's Ten Commandments applied ONLY to Jews.

How about Avraham Stern's covenant with Hitler, Haver?

"    The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that:

    "1. Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO.

    "2. Cooperation between the new Germany and a renewed folkish-national Hebraium would be possible and,

    "3. The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East.

    "Proceeding from these considerations, the NMO in Palestine, under the condition the above-mentioned national aspirations of the Israeli freedom movement *are recognized on the side of the German Reich, offers to actively take part in the war on Germany's side."*

"*They hanged people all over Europe after WW II for notes to the Nazis like these.* 

"But these treasons against the Jews were virtually unknown in the run up to the creation of the Zionist state in May 1948. Ninety percent of America's Jews suddenly became emotional pro-Zionists."

Lenni Brenner


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Moses's Ten Commandments applied ONLY to Jews.



The 10 Commandments are universal, psycho

Muslim mass murder is universal, too.

Quran 2:216...


> Jihâd (holy fighting in Allâh's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allâh knows but you do not know.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 27, 2010)

Havers for Hitler?

Sucker.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Havers for Hitler?
> 
> Sucker.



IslamoNazi Georgie Collaborates With Hitler...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSUEx1cKUlg[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 27, 2010)

"Zionist factions competed for the honor of allying to Hitler. By 1940-41, the "Stern Gang," among them Yitzhak Shamir, later Prime Minister of Israel, presented the Nazis with the "Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany."

Yitzhak beat me to it.

Did you swallow for him, too?

Haver.

Lenni Brenner


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Zionist factions competed for the honor of allying to Hitler.



Nazi scum Georgie was raised by Nazi scum.  

Martin Luther King, Jr...


> When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism.
> 
> I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.
> 
> I solemnly pledge to do my utmost to uphold the fair name of the Jews -- because bigotry in any form is an affront to us all.


"I have a dream" for peace in the Middle East / King's special bond with Israel


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 27, 2010)

"In 1983, Croom Helm Ltd. published my 1st book, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators. 

"American writers don't expect favorable reviews from the London Times, but editorialist Edward Mortimer declared that '*Brenner is able to cite numerous cases where Zionists collaborated with anti-Semitic regimes, including Hitler's.'"*

Still less could a Trotskyist dream of a review from Izvestia, the Soviet government gazette, but they hailed it. 

*"'During the world war, Brenner points out, Zionism showed its real meaning: for the sake of its ambitions, it sacrificed the blood of millions of Jews.'"*

Are you proud of Zionism?

Or do you just like sitting on rich Jew dick?

Lenni Brenner


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "In 1983, Croom Helm Ltd. published my 1st book, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators.
> 
> "American writers don't expect favorable reviews from the London Times, but editorialist Edward Mortimer declared that '*Brenner is able to cite numerous cases where Zionists collaborated with anti-Semitic regimes, including Hitler's.'"
> 
> ...


*

Are you proud to be Nazi scum raised by Nazi scum?

Martin Luther King Jr...



			When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism. 

I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality. 

I solemnly pledge to do my utmost to uphold the fair name of the Jews -- because bigotry in any form is an affront to us all.
		
Click to expand...

"I have a dream" for peace in the Middle East / King's special bond with Israel*


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 27, 2010)

Are you more proud of your ignorance or stupidity?

How many Havers for Hitler do you personally know?

Keep swallowing.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 27, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Are you more proud of your ignorance or stupidity?
> 
> How many Havers for Hitler do you personally know?
> 
> Keep swallowing.



You've been demolished, George.  Fellate the Nazi scum who raised you and go to sleep


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 28, 2010)

Are you afraid to explore the range of Jewish politics in Hitler's era?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 28, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Are you afraid to explore the range of Jewish politics in Hitler's era?



You mean, the history of Nazi IslamoNazi collaboration, dummy?

Eminent Islamic Scholar Bernard Lewis...


> Then came the Third Reich, connections to the Arab world and, later, to other Muslim countries. Now that the German archives are open, we know that within weeks of Hitlers coming to power in 1933, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem got in touch with the German consul general in Jerusalem, Doctor Heinrich Wolff, and offered his services. It is interesting that the common image of the Germans pursuing the Arabs is the reverse of what happened. The Arabs were pursuing the Germans.
> 
> The Germans turned their attention more seriously to the Arabs, responding at last to their approaches, and from then on the relationship developed very swiftly.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Semites-Anti-Semites-Inquiry-Conflict-Prejudice/dp/0393318397/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1288102220&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Semites and Anti-Semites: An Inquiry into Conflict and Prejudice (9780393318395): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 28, 2010)

It's hardly surprising the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem would offer his services to the Nazis. Arabs were well aware of the colonial ambitions of the US and England in the Middle East.

What moral equivalence do you see between the Grand Mufti's servitude to Hitler and that of Yitzhak Shamir?

"Zionist factions competed for the honor of allying to Hitler. 

"By 1940-41, the 'Stern Gang,' among them Yitzhak Shamir, later Prime Minister of Israel, presented the Nazis with the 'Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) *Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany.'"*

Lenni Brenner: 51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 28, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> It's hardly surprising the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem would offer his services to the Nazis. Arabs were well aware of the colonial ambitions of the US and England in the Middle East.



Dummy, Arabs colonized the entire Middle East and much of Africa, Asia and Europe after the death of Muhammad in the 7th century.
Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jews lived in Canaan in at least 1300 BCE, 2000 years before Arabs colonized the land in 636 AD.

Your lesson in reality.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 28, 2010)

Your modern Zionist reality:

*"Zionism convicts itself. On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis*:

    'Zionism has no illusions about the difficulty of the Jewish condition, which consists above all in an abnormal occupational pattern and in the fault of an intellectual and moral posture not rooted in one's own tradition. Zionism recognized decades ago that as a result of the assimilationist trend, symptoms of deterioration were bound to appear, which it seeks to overcome by carrying out its challenge to transform Jewish life completely.

    'It is our opinion that an answer to the Jewish question truly satisfying to the national state can be brought about only with the collaboration of the Jewish movement that aims at a social, cultural and moral renewal of Jewry--indeed, that such a national renewal must first create the decisive social and spiritual premises for all solutions.

    "'Zionism believes that a rebirth of national life, such as is occurring in German life through adhesion to Christian and national values, must also take place in the Jewish national group. 

"'For the Jew, too, origin, religion, community of fate and group consciousness must be of decisive significance in the shaping of his life. This means that the egotistic individualism which arose in the liberal era must be overcome by public spiritedness and by willingness to accept responsibility.'"

51 Documents...


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 28, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Your modern Zionist reality:
> 
> *"Zionism convicts itself. On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis*:
> 
> ...



Bogus website.  This is one reason you're so severely uneducated.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 28, 2010)

Prove it's bogus.

"Princeton"


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 28, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Prove it's bogus.
> 
> "Princeton"



I say it's bogus, high school dropout, therefore, it is bogus.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 28, 2010)

Is the following "bogus?"

"As readers are committed to discovering by reading this book, the consequences of Zionist ideology deserve study and exposure. 

"That is what is attempted here. 

"*As an unabashed anti-Zionist, I clearly conclude that Zionism is wholly incorrect; but that is my conclusion drawn from the evidence. The conclusions are, in short, my own. *

"As for the persuasiveness of the arguments used in arriving at them, readers are invited to judge for themselves."

Are you afraid to judge the persuasiveness of this writer's arguments?

If so, why are you here?

Zionism in...


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 28, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Is the following "bogus?"
> 
> "As readers are committed to discovering by reading this book, the consequences of Zionist ideology deserve study and exposure.



You're a psycho headed nowhere in life. 

Martin Luther King Jr. was a Zionist.


> When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You are talking anti-Semitism.
> 
> I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.
> 
> I solemnly pledge to do my utmost to uphold the fair name of the Jews -- because bigotry in any form is an affront to us all.


"I have a dream" for peace in the Middle East / King's special bond with Israel


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 28, 2010)

"Born amidst a wave of defeats for the Jews, not only in backward Russia, but in the very centres of industrial Europe, modern Zionism&#8217;s pretensions were the noblest conceivable: the redemption of the downtrodden Jewish people in their own land.

"But from the very beginning the movement represented the conviction of a portion of the Jewish middle class that the future belonged to the Jew-haters, that anti-Semitism was inevitable, and natural. 

"Firmly convinced that anti-Semitism could not be beaten, the new World Zionist Organisation never fought it.

"Accommodation to anti-Semitism &#8211; and pragmatic utilisation of it for the purpose of obtaining a Jewish state &#8211; became the central stratagems of the movement, and it remained loyal to its earliest conceptions down to and through the Holocaust. 

"*In June l895, in his very first entry in his new Zionist Diary, Herzl laid down this fixed axiom of Zionism:*

    "'In Paris, as I have said, I achieved a freer attitude toward anti-Semitism, which I now began to understand historically and to pardon. Above all, I recognized the emptiness and futility of trying to 'combat' anti-Semitism.'"

Zionism in...

Do you think Dr King would have agreed with Herzl's assessment in the mid 1960s?

How about today?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 28, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Born amidst a wave of defeats for the Jews, not only in backward Russia, but in the very centres of industrial Europe, modern Zionisms pretensions were the noblest conceivable: the redemption of the downtrodden Jewish people in their own land.
> 
> "But from the very beginning the movement represented the conviction of a portion of the Jewish middle class that the future belonged to the Jew-haters, that anti-Semitism was inevitable, and natural.
> 
> ...


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 29, 2010)

Did you learn that at "Princeton"?

Hasbara.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 29, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Did you learn that at "Princeton"?
> 
> Hasbara.



Did you that in Nazi Germany, high school dropout loser?.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 29, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWdwkmLIDfg[/ame]


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 29, 2010)

The League of Nations ...


> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country


 
Allah ...
Quran 5:20-21...


> Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.


 
Barack Obama ...


> Israel is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people.
> 
> It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States.  The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice


Remarks by the President to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House

Winston Churchill ... 


> The Jews had Palestine before that indigenous population [the Arabs] came in and inhabited it


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Jews-Friendship-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0805078800]Amazon.com: Churchill and the Jews: A Lifelong Friendship (9780805078800): Martin Gilbert: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

The US Congress ...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 
NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922 
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED


> Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.
> 
> Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.
> 
> ...


 
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688123635/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0688123627&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HX00TRZAFXPP1PG6MNR]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 29, 2010)

"The source for US military aid to Israel during Fiscal Year 2009 is the Congressional Research Services U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel, written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs, updated February 3, 2009. According to this report, by early February 2009, the US had already given Israel at least $2.55 billion ($2,500,000,000) in military aid for Fiscal Year 2009.

    "Over the last 20 years, the U.S. has been slowly phasing out economic aid to Israel and gradually replacing it with increased military aid. Beginning in 2007, the U.S. has been increasing military aid by $150 million each year. 

"By FY2013, we will be sending Israel $3.15 billion a year (or an average of $8.6 million a day) and will continue to provide military aid at that level through 2018. U.S. tax dollars are subsidizing one of the most powerful foreign militaries. According to the CRS report, '[current U.S. military aid] grants to Israel represent 18.5% of the overall Israeli defense budget.' 

US Aid


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 29, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The source for US military aid to Israel during Fiscal Year 2009 is the Congressional Research Services U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel, written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs, updated February 3, 2009. According to this report, by early February 2009, the US had already given Israel at least $2.55 billion ($2,500,000,000) in military aid for Fiscal Year 2009.
> 
> "Over the last 20 years, the U.S. has been slowly phasing out economic aid to Israel and gradually replacing it with increased military aid. Beginning in 2007, the U.S. has been increasing military aid by $150 million each year.
> 
> ...



Bogus website.  You're severely uneducated.

75% of US aid to Israel must, by law, be spent in the Us, so, it remains in the US economy.

100% of foreign aid to jihadist countries Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Egypt and Jordan goes down a rat hole.

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell...


> Aid to Israel is vital to the security interests of the United States.  It ensures that one of America's closest allies has the tools it needs to survive in one of the world's toughest neighborhoods


 
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi...


> I have always fought for the vital economic and military assistance that Israel needs--not only because it is in Israel's best interest, but because it is in America's interest



Four Star General and former National Security Advisor James Jones...


> We will never forget that since the first minutes of Israeli independence, the United States has had a special relationship with Israel. And that will not change.  Why?  Because this is not a commitment of Democrats or Republicans; it is a national commitment based on shared values, deep and interwoven connections, and mutual interests.
> 
> I can also say from long experience that our security relationship with Israel is important for America. Our military benefits from Israeli innovations in technology, from shared intelligence, from exercises that help our readiness and joint training that enhances our capabilities and from lessons learned in Israel's own battles against terrorism and asymmetric threats


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Israel-History-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0688123635/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288397424&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 29, 2010)

"*Contrary to ordinary U.S. policy, Israel has been and continues to be allowed to use over 26% of this military aid to purchase equipment from Israeli manufacturers*. According to CRS, 'no other recipient of U.S. military assistance has been granted this benefit.' 

"Thanks in part to this indirect U.S. subsidy, Israel&#8217;s arms industry has become one of the strongest in the world. 'In 2007, it was the 8th largest arms supplier to the developing world.'&#8221;

Next time you see Mitch the Bitch remind him only Israel is allowed to skim 25% of US taxpayer charity.

US Aid


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 29, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Contrary to ordinary U.S. policy, Israel has been and continues to be allowed to use over 26% of this military aid to purchase equipment from Israeli manufacturers[/B]. According to CRS, 'no other recipient of U.S. military assistance has been granted this benefit.'
> 
> .ifamericansknew.org



Bogus website.  This is why you're severely uneducated.

By law, 75% of US aid to Israel must be spent in the US, thus, Israeli aid remains in the US economy.

Israel is also one of the US's largest export markets, purchasing upwards of $20 billion/year in products.

Office of the United States Trade Representative...


> U.S. goods exports in 2008 were $14.5 billion, up 11.3 percent from the previous year. Corresponding U.S. imports from Israel were $22.3 billion, up 7.4 percent. Israel is currently the 20th largest export market for U.S. goods.


Israel | Office of the United States Trade Representative


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 30, 2010)

Israel doing its part to enhance the US trade deficit in addition to receiving $2.55 billion is taxpayer charity.

Such a deal.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Israel doing its part to enhance the US trade deficit in addition to receiving $2.55 billion is taxpayer charity.
> 
> Such a deal.



75% of US aid to Israel must, by law, be spent in the US, so it stays in the US economy.

Unlike the $20 billion in US aid to jihadist countries Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Egypt and Jordan that goes down a rat hole.

Israelis buy $15 billion to $20 billion in American products annually, making Israel not just a key American ally, but a lucrative ally.

Office of the United States Trade Representative...


> U.S. goods exports in 2008 were $14.5 billion, up 11.3 percent from the previous year. Corresponding U.S. imports from Israel were $22.3 billion, up 7.4 percent. Israel is currently the 20th largest export market for U.S. goods.


Israel | Office of the United States Trade Representative


----------



## docmauser1 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Israel doing its part to enhance the US trade deficit in addition to receiving $2.55 billion is taxpayer charity._


The US guvmint should ship less production jobs to China and leech less chinese money, then we will talk, of course.



georgephillip said:


> _Such a deal._


Big deal.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Israel doing its part to enhance the US trade deficit in addition to receiving $2.55 billion is taxpayer charity.
> 
> Such a deal.



Barack Obama...


> Many of the same forces that threaten Israel also threaten the United States and our efforts to secure peace and stability in the Middle East. Our alliance with Israel serves our national security interests.



US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton...


> We have long recognized that a strong, secure, and successful Israel is our common goal, but it is also vital to America's strategic interests.



Secretary of Defense Robert Gates... 


> The United States' commitment to Israel's security is unshakeable, and our defense relationship is stronger than ever, to the mutual benefit of both nations. The United States and our ally Israel share many of the same security challenges, from combating terrorism to confronting the threat posed by Iran's nuclear weapons program.



Navy Admiral Mike Mullen...


> The Israelis, of course, remain a vital ally and a cornerstone of our regional security commitments.



Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell...


> Aid to Israel is vital to the security interests of the United States.  It ensures that one of America's closest allies has the tools it needs to survive in one of the world's toughest neighborhoods


 
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi...


> I have always fought for the vital economic and military assistance that Israel needs--not only because it is in Israel's best interest, but because it is in America's interest



Four Star General and former National Security Advisor James Jones...


> We will never forget that since the first minutes of Israeli independence, the United States has had a special relationship with Israel. And that will not change.  Why?  Because this is not a commitment of Democrats or Republicans; it is a national commitment based on shared values, deep and interwoven connections, and mutual interests
> 
> I can also say from long experience that our security relationship with Israel is important for America. Our military benefits from Israeli innovations in technology, from shared intelligence, from exercises that help our readiness and joint training that enhances our capabilities and from lessons learned in Israel's own battles against terrorism and asymmetric threats.


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Israel-History-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0688123635/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288445727&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 30, 2010)

"As violence between Zionist immigrants and the indigenous Palestinian population, and by both groups against the occupying British, continued to escalate during and following World War II, the United Nations, *under pressure from the United States (under pressure from its own domestic Zionist lobby)*, proposed a partition plan in which Palestine would be divided between the two groups. 

"*Under this plan 55 percent of hereditary Palestine was to be given to a Jewish state, despite the fact that this largely immigrant group still consisted of only 30 percent of the population and owned under seven percent of the land*. 

"The war that resulted in 1948 is called 'the War of Independence' by Israel, and 'Al-Naqba' &#8212; The Catastrophe &#8212; by Palestinians, and resulted in a massive refugee crisis." 

And so the occupation of the indigenous population of the Holy Land began.

Palestinian Refugees


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "As violence between Zionist immigrants and the indigenous Palestinian population



Re-inventing history, again?  Jews lived in "Palestine" for at least 2000 years before Arabs, who originated from Arabia.

Arabs invaded "Palestine" in 636 AD.  The Merneptah Stele demonstrates Israel existed in at least 1300 BCE.  

Arabs are late to the party.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...


> During the first period in Islamic history [622 AD] when Islam was an Arab religion and the Caliphate an Arab Kingdom, *the term Arab came to be applied to those who spoke Arabic, were full members by descent of an Arab tribe, and who, either in person or through their ancestors, had originated in Arabia.*


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Arabs-History-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0192803107/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288187880&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The Arabs in History (9780192803108): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]


The League of Nations agreed...


> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country


 
Allah agrees...
Quran 5:20-21...


> Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.


 
Barack Obama agrees...:


> Israel is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people.
> 
> It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States.  The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice


Remarks by the President to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House


Winston Churchill agreed...: 


> The Jews had Palestine before that indigenous population [the Arabs] came in and inhabited it


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Jews-Friendship-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0805078800]Amazon.com: Churchill and the Jews: A Lifelong Friendship (9780805078800): Martin Gilbert: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

The US Congress agrees...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 
NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922 
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED


> Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.
> 
> Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688123635/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0688123627&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HX00TRZAFXPP1PG6MNR]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 30, 2010)

Let's test that "Princeton" attention span...

Try to focus:

55% of hereditary Palestine was given to a largely immigrant group consisting of 30% of the total population and owning less than 7% of the total land of "Palestine".

One person.
One vote.
Think real hard.

HINT: The Merneptah Stele and Arab invasion of "Palestine" in 636 AD are not relevant to the outcome of a 1948 AD election that was never allowed to happen.

Any wonderful Jews we can blame for that?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Let's test that "Princeton" attention span...
> 
> Try to focus:
> 
> 55% of hereditary Palestine was given to a largely immigrant group consisting of 30% of the total population and owning less than 7% of the total land of "Palestine".



Hereditary Palestine?  LOL  You're such a twit.   No such term even exists, doofus.

Arabs have 30 countries on 8 million square miles.

Jews have just one country on 8 thousand square miles.

Arabs: 99.9% of the Middle East.

Jews: 0.1% of the land.

Arabs don't have enough?

Jews have too much?

We all know what Kookie Nazi George thinks.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Let's test that "Princeton" attention span...
> 
> Try to focus:
> 
> 55% of hereditary Palestine was given to a largely immigrant group consisting of 30% of the total population and owning less than 7% of the total land of "Palestine".



Kookie Nazi George, Jordan represents 80% of Mandate Palestine (Israel, just 20%) and 75% of Jordan's population is Palestinian, including Queen Rania.

When will you speak with King Abdullah about giving Pallies a vote to make Jordan a Pallie country?


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> HINT: The Merneptah Stele and Arab invasion of "Palestine" in 636 AD are not relevant to the outcome of a 1948 AD election that was never allowed to happen.



Hint: The Merneptah Stele, which you didn't even know until I informed you, is relevant in substantiating Israel's existence at least 3200 years ago and that Jews, not Arabs, were the indigenous population.

Arabs are interlopers from Arabia.


Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...


> During the first period in Islamic history [622 AD] when Islam was an Arab religion and the Caliphate an Arab Kingdom,* the term Arab came to be applied to those who spoke Arabic, were full members by descent of an Arab tribe, and who, either in person or through their ancestors, had originated in Arabia.*


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Arabs-History-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0192803107/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288187880&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The Arabs in History (9780192803108): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]



__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 30, 2010)

In the same way Anglo Saxon interlopers from Europe colonized Manhattan.

Whatever occurred thousands of years ago doesn't change the fact that 1,220,000 Arabs would have outvoted 650,000 Jews in 1948 Palestine.

The Jewish State of Israel exists because elites in the US and England saw the potential profits from arm sales to a Jewish homeland in the heart of Arab oil.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> In the same way Anglo Saxon interlopers from Europe colonized Manhattan.



Open a book.  You're severely uneducated.

The Muhammadan colonized the Jewish and Christian Middle East, north Africa and much of Europe and Asia

The Muhammadan colonized Buddhist Afghanistan.

Read, learn, uneducated one....
Muslim conquests - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Arab excrement do not warrant one country, let alone 30.

Winston Churchill...


> We owe to the Jews a system of ethics which, even if it were entirely separated from the supernatural, would be incomparably the most precious possession of mankind, worth in fact the fruits of all wisdom and learning put together.


 


> Some people like Jews and some do not, but no thoughtful `person' can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world


 


> The coming into being of a Jewish state in Palestine is an event in world history to be viewed in the perspective, not of a generation or a century, but in the perspective of a thousand, two thousand or even three thousand years" "This is an event in world history


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Israel-History-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0688123635/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288397424&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]



Alexis de Toqueville...


> Istudied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.



Winston Churchill...



> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> ...



[ame=http://www.amazon.com/River-War-Sir-Winston-Churchill/dp/1598184253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288411221&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The River War (9781598184259): Sir Winston S. Churchill: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 30, 2010)

"For example, after opening the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) archives, a cable was discovered dated October 31, 1948, signed by Major General Carmel and addressed to all the division and district commanders under his command. 

"In that cable he stated, &#8220;Do all you can to immediately and quickly purge the conquered territories of all hostile elements in accordance with the orders issued. 

"*The residents should be helped to leave the areas that have been conquered*.&#8221; 

"A detailed analysis of such declassified material is provided by Nur Masalha in his book Expulsion of the Palestinians: The Concept of &#8216;Transfer&#8217; in Zionist Political Thought, 1882-1948.

Yitzhak Rabin, the future Prime Minister and Noble Prize winner, wrote in his diary soon after Lydda&#8217;s and Ramla&#8217;s occupation:

"After attacking Lydda and then Ramla...What would they do with the 50,000 civilians living in the two cities...Not even Ben-Gurion could offer a solution...and during the discussion at operation headquarters, he [Ben-Gurion] remained silent, as was his habit in such situations. 

"Clearly, we could not leave hostile and armed populace in our rear, where it could endanger the supply route [to the troops who were] advancing eastward...

"Ben-Gurion would repeat the question: 'What is to be done with the population?,' waving his hand in a gesture which said: 'Drive them out!.' "Driving out" is a term with a harsh ring...

"Psychologically, this was one of the most difficult actions we undertook."

Wonderful Jews Driving Out Arab Excrement?

Are you a "Princeton" racist?

Palestinian...


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> In the same way Anglo Saxon interlopers from Europe colonized Manhattan.
> 
> Whatever occurred thousands of years ago doesn't change the fact that 1,220,000 Arabs would have outvoted 650,000 Jews in 1948 Palestine.



Your figures are bogus.   Few people lived in Palestine.

Palestine was desolate and barren as a consequence of repeated invasions, from the Babylonians to the Persians to Alexander the Great to the Romans and Muslims to World War I.

The Black Plaque, malaria and bombed irrigation systems left the land depleted.

Mark Twain's observations of his trip to barren Palestine...


> Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren, they are dull of color, they are unpicturesque in shape. The valleys are unsightly deserts fringed with a feeble vegetation that has an expression about it of being sorrowful and despondent. The Dead Sea and the Sea of Galilee sleep in the midst of a vast stretch of hill and plain wherein the eye rests upon no pleasant tint, no striking object, no soft picture dreaming in a purple haze or mottled with the shadows of the clouds. Every outline is harsh, every feature is distinct, there is no perspective--distance works no enchantment here. It is a hopeless, dreary, heart-broken land.
> 
> Small shreds and patches of it must be very beautiful in the full flush of spring, however, and all the more beautiful by contrast with the far-reaching desolation that surrounds them on every side. I would like much to see the fringes of the Jordan in spring-time, and Shechem, Esdraelon, Ajalon and the borders of Galilee--but even then these spots would seem mere toy gardens set at wide intervals in the waste of a limitless desolation.
> 
> ...


Innocents Abroad - Chapter LVI by Mark Twain


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 30, 2010)

If Mark's right, Zionism has turned Palestine into a nightmare.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> If Mark's right, Zionism has turned Palestine into a nightmare.



Palestine doesn't exist, uneducated one.

Historian Bernard Lewis...


> The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formaly abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Islam-History-People-Events-Middle/dp/0812695186/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288144935&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Islam in History: Ideas, People, and Events in the Middle East (9780812695182): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]  



D'oh!


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 30, 2010)

"Palestine doesn't exist"

"*Palestine* (Greek: &#928;&#945;&#955;&#945;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#943;&#957;&#951;, Palaistin&#275;; Latin: Palaestina; the Hebrew name Peleshet (&#1508;&#1500;&#1513;&#1514; P&#601;léshseth); also &#1508;&#1500;&#1513;&#1474;&#1514;&#1497;&#1504;&#1492;, Palestina; Arabic: &#1601;&#1604;&#1587;&#1591;&#1610;&#1606;&#8206;Filas&#7789;&#299;n, Falas&#7789;&#299;n, Filis&#7789;&#299;n) is a conventional name used, among others, to describe a geographic region between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, and various adjoining lands.[1]

"As a geographic term, Palestine can refer to 'ancient Palest6ine,' an area that today includes Israel and the [2] Palestinian territories, as well as part of Jordan, and some of both Lebanon and Syria."

Palestine - Wiki


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Palestine doesn't exist"
> 
> "*Palestine* (Greek: &#928;&#945;&#955;&#945;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#943;&#957;&#951;, Palaistin&#275;; Latin: Palaestina; the Hebrew name Peleshet (&#1508;&#1500;&#1513;&#1514; P&#601;léshseth); also &#1508;&#1500;&#1513;&#1474;&#1514;&#1497;&#1504;&#1492;, Palestina; Arabic: &#1601;&#1604;&#1587;&#1591;&#1610;&#1606;&#8206;Filas&#7789;&#299;n, Falas&#7789;&#299;n, Filis&#7789;&#299;n) is a conventional name used, among others, to describe a geographic region between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, and various adjoining lands.[1]
> 
> ...



Dictionaries, Wikipedia  LOL  This is why you're such a clown.   You're so uneducated.

I prefer scholarly sources.

Eminent Middle East historian Bernard Lewis...


> The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formaly abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Islam-History-People-Events-Middle/dp/0812695186/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288144935&sr=]Amazon.com: Islam in History: Ideas, People, and Events in the Middle East (9780812695182): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]


----------



## Trajan (Oct 30, 2010)

hey when do we start occupation 102? I need the credits....


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

Trajan said:


> hey when do we start occupation 102? I need the credits....



Georgie is not occupied.  It's difficult finding gainful employment as a high school dropout


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 30, 2010)

I'm not paid or compensated in any way for my posts on USMB.

Are you?

Hasbara.


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> I'm not paid or compensated in any way for my posts on USMB.
> 
> Are you?
> 
> Hasbara.



You're not paid for anything, flunky.


----------



## georgephillip (Oct 30, 2010)

Trajan said:


> hey when do we start occupation 102? I need the credits....


I'm glad you asked...

"Zionist factions competed for the honor of allying to Hitler. 

"By 1940-41, the "Stern Gang," among them Yitzhak Shamir, later Prime Minister of Israel, presented the Nazis with the "Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and *the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany."*

Avraham Stern and his followers announced that The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that:

"1. Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO. 

Ready for mid-terms?

51 Documents


----------



## P F Tinmore (Oct 31, 2010)

In 1615 the English traveler George Sandys described Palestine as "a land that flows with milk and honey; in the midst as it were of the habitable world, and under a temperate clime; adorned with beautiful mountains and luxurious valleys; the rocks producing excellent waters; and no part empty of delight or profit."(4)

A British missionary who lived in Beirut and visited Palestine in 1859 described the southern coastal area as "a very ocean of wheat," and the British Consul in Jerusalem, James Finn, reported that "the fields would do credit to British farming."(5)

The German geographer Alexander Scholch concluded that between 1856 and 1882 "Palestine produced a relatively large agricultural surplus which was marketed in neighboring countries, such as Egypt and Lebanon, and increasingly exported to Europe. These exports included wheat, barley, dura, maise, sesame, olive oil, soap, oranges, vegetables and cotton. Among the European importers of Palestinian produce were France, England, Turkey, Greece, Italy and Malta."(6)

Lawrence Oliphant, who visited Palestine in 1887, wrote that Palestine's Valley of Esdraelon was "a huge green lake of waving wheat, with its village-crowned mounds rising from it like islands; and it presents one of the most striking pictures of luxuriant fertility which it is possible to conceive."(7) This Palestinian wheat had historically played an important part in international commerce. According to Paul Masson, a French economic historian, "wheat shipments from the Palestinian port of Acre had helped to save southern France from famine on numerous occasions in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries."(8)

Agricultural techniques in Palestine, especially in citriculture, were among the most advanced in the world long before the first Zionist settlers came to its shores. In 1856, the American consul in Jerusalem, Henry Gillman, "outlined reasons why orange growers in Florida would find it advantageous to adopt Palestinian techniques of grafting directly onto lemon trees."^ In 1893, the British Consul advised his government of the value of importing "young trees procured from Jaffa" to improve production in Australia and South Africa.(10)

All of this historical evidence from unimpeachable eyewitnesses destroys Israel's contention that it developed Palestine through its colonization. The legend that the Zionists have created, that they made "the desert bloom with roses," is totally without foundation. It is a ploy to gain donations from naive Jews throughout the world and to help extort economic aid from the American Congress. The economic achievements of Israel today are built totally on the capital base of lands, property and possessions usurped from the Palestinian Arabs.

Chapter 2: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem


----------



## Marc39 (Oct 31, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> In 1615 the English traveler George Sandys described Palestine as "a land that flows with milk and honey



The above was fabricated and, thus, is bogus.

Mark Twain...


> Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren, they are dull of color, they are unpicturesque in shape. The valleys are unsightly deserts fringed with a feeble vegetation that has an expression about it of being sorrowful and despondent. The Dead Sea and the Sea of Galilee sleep in the midst of a vast stretch of hill and plain wherein the eye rests upon no pleasant tint, no striking object, no soft picture dreaming in a purple haze or mottled with the shadows of the clouds. Every outline is harsh, every feature is distinct, there is no perspective--distance works no enchantment here. It is a hopeless, dreary, heart-broken land.
> 
> Small shreds and patches of it must be very beautiful in the full flush of spring, however, and all the more beautiful by contrast with the far-reaching desolation that surrounds them on every side. I would like much to see the fringes of the Jordan in spring-time, and Shechem, Esdraelon, Ajalon and the borders of Galilee--but even then these spots would seem mere toy gardens set at wide intervals in the waste of a limitless desolation.
> 
> ...


Innocents Abroad - Chapter LVI by Mark Twain


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 1, 2010)

As fabricated as your "education"?

Any thoughts Yitzhak's offer to ally with Hitler?


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 1, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> As fabricated as your "education"?
> 
> Any thoughts Yitzhak's offer to ally with Hitler?



Me: Highly educated
You: High school dropout.

Me: Reputational points.
You: Not one.

Heh heh


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 3, 2010)

"Said Rhateb was born in 1972, five years after Israeli soldiers fought their way through East Jerusalem and claimed his family's dry, rock-strewn plot as part of what the Jewish state proclaimed its 'eternal and indivisible capital'. 

"The bureaucrats followed in the army's footsteps, registering and measuring *Israel's largest annexation of territory since its victory over the Arab armies in the 1948 war of independence.* 

"They cast an eye over the Rhateb family's village of Beit Hanina and its lands, a short drive from the biblical city on the hill, and decided the outer limits of this new Jerusalem. 

"The Israelis drew a line on a map - a new city boundary - between Beit Hanina's lands and most of its homes.

"*The olive groves and orchards were to be part of Jerusalem; the village was to remain in the West Bank.*

"The population was not so neatly divided. 

"Arabs in the area were registered as living in the village - even those, like Rhateb's parents, whose homes were inside what was now defined as Jerusalem. 

"In time, the Israelis gave the Rhatebs identity cards that classified them as *residents of the West Bank, under military occupation*. 

"When Said Rhateb was born, he too was listed as living outside the city's boundaries..." 

Separating villagers from their land and issuing ID cards designating them as "residents of the West Bank under military occupation" seem like violations of GCIV.

Not that those who profit from occupation care much.

Worlds apart


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 3, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > In 1615 the English traveler George Sandys described Palestine as "a land that flows with milk and honey
> ...



All documented.

The only reason you say it is bogus is because it does not match Israel's propaganda.


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## Marc39 (Nov 3, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



It's bogus.  Go back to sleep, idiot.

Mark Twain's account of the desolation of Palestine, OTOH, is not bogus.





> Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren, they are dull of color, they are
> unpicturesque in shape. The valleys are unsightly deserts fringed with a feeble vegetation that has an expression about it of being sorrowful and despondent. The Dead Sea and the Sea of Galilee sleep in the midst of a vast stretch of hill and plain wherein the eye rests upon no pleasant tint, no striking object, no soft picture dreaming in a purple haze or mottled with the shadows of the clouds. Every outline is harsh, every feature is distinct, there is no perspective--distance works no enchantment here. It is a hopeless, dreary, heart-broken land.
> 
> Small shreds and patches of it must be very beautiful in the full flush of spring, however, and all the more beautiful by contrast with the far-reaching desolation that surrounds them on every side. I would like much to see the fringes of the Jordan in spring-time, and Shechem, Esdraelon, Ajalon and the borders of Galilee--but even then these spots would seem mere toy gardens set at wide intervals in the waste of a limitless desolation.
> ...


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## docmauser1 (Nov 3, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _Chapter 2: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem_


Why do arabs always have to lie like a pornstar?


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## Marc39 (Nov 3, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > _.palestine-encyclopedia[/B].com/EPP/Chapter02_1of3.htm]Chapter 2: Encyclopedia of the Palestine Problem_
> ...



How can there be a Palestine Encyclopedia if Palestine never existed for Arabs and Muslims?  

Historian Bernard Lewis...


> For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable.  For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [Syria].  For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point.


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1288808372&sr=8-4]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 3, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



United States history starts before it was called the United states.

Do you have a point?


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## Marc39 (Nov 3, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Before the Romans invented "Palaestina," 500 years before Arabs and Muslims arrived from Arabia, the correct historical geographic names of the land were Canaan and Judea, as in land of the Jews, where Jews, not Arabs or Muslims have lived for 4,000 years.

Thus, Jews are the original Palestinians.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 3, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
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When was it that the Jews were the only people living in Palestine?


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## Marc39 (Nov 3, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
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You've asked this question several times and I have responded in kind.  Are you retarded or merely plain stupid?

The ancient Hebrews lived among others, including Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites and Jebusites.

Only Jews have survived.

Arabs and Muslilms did not arrive in Judea until 2000 years after Jews arrived, when the former conquered the Byzantines in 636 AD.  Jews have been living in Judea since at least 1300 BCE.

Try hard to remember, this time


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## georgephillip (Nov 3, 2010)

Was bronze-age genocide the reason only Jews survived?

Think Moses might have been a war criminal?


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 3, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Was bronze-age genocide the reason only Jews survived?
> 
> Think Moses might have been a war criminal?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 3, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
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If only the Jews survived, there must be a point in time when there were only Jews, That is what I asked.


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## Marc39 (Nov 3, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



You're not the brightest bulb.  Among the Canannites, Jebusites, Hittites and Amorites, only Jews survived as a distinct group.

You see any Canaanites, Jebusites, Hittites or Amorites in the Middle East, these days?


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Did they all leave at once leaving the Jews the only people on the land?


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Open a history book, uneducated one.


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## georgephillip (Nov 4, 2010)

Mandate Palestine.
1948.
1,220,000 Arabs
650,000 Jews
One person: One vote?

No Jewish homeland in the heart of Arab oil.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



I haven't found such a time. You should know off the top of your head, Mr. Scholar.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Open a book for once in your uneducated life.


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



That's what I thought. You are just lying about it.

There was no such time when there were only Jews living there.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Rule #1:  Marc39 is always correct.
Rule #2: If in doubt, refer to Rule #1.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



You are just to stupid to answer any questions.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Me:  Master's degree in Middle East studies from Princeton University.
You: High school dropout addict who masturbates in his room all day.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 4, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
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What is you degree? Israeli bullshit propaganda?

You bring nothing to the table.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
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You have nothing.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 4, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv8mA4yGwIk[/ame]


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 4, 2010)

The League of Nations...


> Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country


 
Allah ...
Quran 5:20-21...


> Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.


 
Barack Obama ...:


> Israel is a sovereign state, and the historic homeland of the Jewish people.
> 
> It should be clear to all that efforts to chip away at Israel's legitimacy will only be met by the unshakeable opposition of the United States.  The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice


Remarks by the President to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House


Winston Churchill ...: 


> The Jews had Palestine before that indigenous population [the Arabs] came in and inhabited it


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Jews-Friendship-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0805078800]Amazon.com: Churchill and the Jews: A Lifelong Friendship (9780805078800): Martin Gilbert: Books: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]

The US Congress ...

The United States Congressional Record
1922 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 
NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE JUNE 30, 1922 
HOUSE RESOLUTION 360 - UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED


> Palestine of today, the land we now know as Palestine, was peopled by the Jews from the dawn of history until the Roman era. It is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people. They were driven from it by force by the relentless Roman military machine and for centuries prevented from returning. At different periods various alien people succeeded them but the Jewish race had left an indelible impress upon the land.
> 
> Today it is a Jewish country. Every name, every landmark, every monument and every trace of whatever civilization remaining there is still Jewish. And it has ever since remained a hope, a longing, as expressed in their prayers for these nearly 2,000 years. No other people has ever claimed Palestine as their national home. No other people has ever shown an aptitude or indicated a genuine desire to make it their homeland. The land has been ruled by foreigners. Only since the beginning of the modern Zionist effort may it be said that a creative, cultural, and economic force has entered Palestine. The Jewish Nation was forced from its natural home. It did not go because it wanted to.
> 
> ...


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688123635/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0688123627&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HX00TRZAFXPP1PG6MNR]Amazon.com: Israel: A History (9780688123635): Martin Gilbert: Books[/ame]


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## docmauser1 (Nov 4, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _United States history starts before it was called the United states._


And there were no palestinians® there either, of course. Frankly, if jooze were to relocate to the Moon, there would be palestinians®, claiming to have lived there for millenia.


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## docmauser1 (Nov 4, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Mandate_


Drivel.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 4, 2010)

"*Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians*. 

"Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. 

"*By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000  Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean*, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. 

"Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948 in the same areas where there were large proportions of Jews. 

"Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs. For a detailed discussion that focuses on this myth, please refer to Zionism and its Impact."

MidEast Web


----------



## hipeter924 (Nov 4, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "*Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians*.
> 
> "Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries.
> 
> ...


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 4, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > _United States history starts before it was called the United states._
> ...



Arabs began calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967.  Prior, Arabs were just plain, garden-variety Arabs and Muslims.

Jews are the real Palestinians


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 4, 2010)

"The net effect of the Israeli seizure of land in East Jerusalem, which includes recent approval for an additional 9,000 housing units, and the West Bank is to promulgate a form of *administrative ethnic cleansing*. 

"Palestinian families are being pushed off land they have owned for generations and evicted from their homes by Israeli authorities. Dozens of families, tossed out of dwellings they have occupied in East Jerusalem for decades, have been forced onto the streets. 

"Groups such as Ateret Cohanim, an ultra-Orthodox Jewish private organization that collects funds from abroad, purchases Palestinian properties and pursues legal strategies to evict families that have long resided in East Jerusalem. Israel's judicial system and police, in violation of international law, facilitate and enforce these evictions and land seizures."

Formalizing Israel's Land Grab


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 4, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The net effect of the Israeli seizure of land in East Jerusalem, which includes recent approval for an additional 9,000 housing units, and the West Bank is to promulgate a form of *administrative ethnic cleansing *


*

All of Palestine is sovereign Israeli land under international law, thus, Israel is not seizing any land.

Arab terrorists must be deported or executed*


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## Marc39 (Nov 4, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The net effect of the Israeli seizure of land in East Jerusalem, which includes recent approval for an additional 9,000 housing units, and the West Bank is to promulgate a form of *administrative ethnic cleansing*


*

Palestinian population, 1947:  500,000
Palestinian populatio, 2010: 5,000,000,000

Looks more like a population explosion, not ethnic cleansing.

You're so confused, Georgie.  No reputationl points for you!  *


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## georgephillip (Nov 5, 2010)

Nine zeroes?

"Princeton"?

You Jews got a BIG demographic problem on your hands.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 5, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Nine zeroes?
> 
> "Princeton"?
> 
> You Jews got a BIG demographic problem on your hands.



No reputational points for high school dropouts, little Georgie. 

Have you tried prayer?


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 7, 2010)

Democracy or ethnocracy?

"A Knesset committee has just adopted a law that enables 'reception committees' of 'communal localities' with less than 500 families to refuse would-be residents not to their liking.

"The law, which will come into force in a matter of days, is designed to circumvent the judgment of the Supreme Court forbidding the refusal to admit Arabs. 

"*The wording of the law is a masterpiece of verbal acrobatics, in order to avoid the use of the word 'Arab'*. 

"But the meaning is clear to everybody.

"An investigation by the Arab &#8220;Adala&#8221; organization has shown that the 695 agricultural and urban communities to which the law will apply occupy the greater part of the lands that belong to the government (most of which, by the way, were expropriated from Arab owners after the foundation of the state). *Almost all the real estate of Israel belongs to the government*.

This is a clear case of racial segregation, of the kind that existed in the US against Jews and blacks. There it disappeared 50 years ago. It concerns the very essence of the State of Israel. It turns the status of Israel&#8217;s Arab citizens, 20% of the population, into a time bomb. 

The Occupation


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## Marc39 (Nov 7, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Democracy or ethnocracy?



*Arab American Journalist Joseph Farah: Why Arabs Love Israel...*


> *Far from being mistreated, the Arab population in Israel and in the territories administered by Israel has been freer than the population in any Arab state. Arabs in Israel vote. They elect leaders to the Knesset. They have their own political parties. They have their own newspapers. They have full rights to citizenship. They are free to speak their minds. As an Arab-American journalist who has spent a good deal of time covering the region, I can tell you there is more freedom for Arabs in Israel than in any Arab state.
> *
> 
> Land cannot possibly be the contentious issue as the Arab and Muslim states in the region already have 800 times as much territory as Israel. The Arabs have 50 times the population of Israel. The Arabs have all of the oil reserves of the region. They have 21 states of their own  all varying shades of police states. It's difficult to imagine how one more will bring peace to a region that has known some of the most devastating and costly wars of the last century.
> ...


Why Arabs love Israel


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 7, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Democracy or ethnocracy?
> 
> "A Knesset committee has just adopted a law that enables 'reception committees' of 'communal localities' with less than 500 families to refuse would-be residents not to their liking.
> 
> ...



Israelis own their houses but lease the land they are on.

Like a trailer park.


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## Marc39 (Nov 7, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Democracy or ethnocracy?
> ...



Warren Buffett, Multi-Billion Dollar Purchase of Successful Israeli Company...


> Israel is exceptional.  I can give you an absolute, unequivocal answer.  You can go around the world and it's very impressive to see a country of 7 million create a business like this, I haven't seen anything like this in the US.
> 
> When you think about it, if you compare Israel (now) to 1948, it's very, very impressive.  It's a remarkable place


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV3W_86NTYA[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 7, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



WOW, a double wide trailer park.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 7, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Arabs and Muslims live in a cesspool

Israelis live in the land of milk and honey.


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## georgephillip (Nov 7, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Democracy or ethnocracy?
> ...


Brings a whole new complexion to "trailer trash."

What kind of democracy allows government ownership of most land?

One based on race or religion?


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## P F Tinmore (Nov 7, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Israel steals the land from the Palestinians and leases it to the Jews.

How could you not be rich and prosperous with a scam like that?


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 7, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



These "Palestinians" who are a fiction?  You also believe in the tooth fairy, fairy?  

Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen...


> The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.


Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Arab American Journalist Joe Farah...


> There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.
> 
> Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.


Myths of the Middle East


Arab Commentator Azmi Bishara...


> Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 9, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Democracy or ethnocracy?
> ...


Why do supporters of Israel whenever they're members of a minority (Jewish Americans make up ~2% of the US population) extol a secular state where the majority religion sacrifices "its traditional symbols and culture in the name of freedom of religion", yet when in the majority advocate "for a state where a religious symbol is on the very flag itself, and where individuals must carry *ID cards denoting their religious background?"*

Why do these same supporters of Israel fail to mention a number of passages from the Talmud traditionally omitted from English translations?

"...for example, from a fundamental book of Hassidism: ' All non-Jews are totally satanic creatures "in whom there is absolutely nothing good." *Even a non-Jewish embryo is qualitatively different from a Jewish one*. The very existence of a non-Jew is "non-essential", whereas all creation was created solely for the sake of the Jews.'"

All creation...
Was created...
Solely for the sake of the Jews...???????

Anybody think that's worth $7 million US tax dollars per day?

What Our Taxes


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 9, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _Israel steals the land from the Palestinians and leases it to the Jews._


That and other arabian nights tall tales, of course.


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## georgephillip (Nov 9, 2010)

Like this?

"Shahak and Mezvinsky provide a number of translations from the Talmud and other writings that they note are omitted from books on Judaism published in English; for example, from a fundamental book of Hassidism: *'All non-Jews are totally satanic creatures "in whom there is absolutely nothing good.*" Even a non-Jewish embryo is qualitatively different from a Jewish one. 

"The very existence of a non-Jew is 'non-essential', whereas all creation was created solely for the sake of the Jews. 

"*There are many such passages.*"

Are you "essential?"

Are your "fans?"

What Our Taxes...


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 9, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Like this?_


Of course! How did my followers know?





georgephillip said:


> _"Shahak and Mezvinsky provide a number of translations from the Talmud and other writings that they note are omitted from books on Judaism published in English; for example, ..._


"Grossly mis-informed... Speaking as a non-Jewish Doctor of Theology, this book does an incredible disservice to all people, Jews and non-Jews. Full of misinformation and talmudic quotes taken out of context, one can only wonder what the author's personal agenda is."
Amason Book Review, July 12, 1998.
I knew my fans would find Shahak - that disturbed individual died in 2001, if I'm not mistaken, but his dumbass ideas live. Anyway, quoting him is bad manners, of course.


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## georgephillip (Nov 9, 2010)

Who is speaking as a "non-Jewish Doctor of Theology?"
Pat Robertson?
Is "bad manners" inimical to "truth"?


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 9, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Who is speaking as a "non-Jewish Doctor of Theology?" Pat Robertson? Is "bad manners" inimical to "truth"?_


Funny drivel.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 10, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > _Like this?_
> ...


"Truthfully, the Talmud and Jewish law are such mixed bags that I'm surprised he (Rabbi Hurvitz) handed them to us to peer into.

"While I rarely speak or write on this subject matter, there is no doubt that it is significant and should be explored. 

"There are two extremely valuable books on the topic by authors less timid than I, both Jewish, one Israeli: 'Jewish History, Jewish Religion' *(posted on ifamericansknew.org in full) by Dr. Israel Shahak, a holocaust survivor and, until his death in 2001, a highly regarded Israeli professor of chemistry*; and 'Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel,' *co-authored by Dr. Shahak* and Dr. Norton Mezvinsky, a professor of history who in 2002 was named by the Connecticut State University Board of Trustees an official 'Connecticut State University Professor...a signal honor, reserved for faculty members who fulfill the highest ideals of outstanding teaching, scholarly achievement and public service.'"

What Our Taxes...


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"Truthfully, the Talmud and Jewish law are such mixed bags that I'm surprised he (Rabbi Hurvitz) handed them to us to peer into._


That's where we see that, Shahak had, unwittingly, admitted to having been a driveling idiot all along - making a conspiracy of getting the books, which can be bought freely. Pathetic, but dumbass morons buy and quote that drivel with a happiness of a drunken sailor.


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## georgephillip (Nov 10, 2010)

"Israel Shahak was a resident of the Warsaw Ghetto and a survivor of Bergen-Belsen. He arrived in Palestine in 1945 and lived there until his death in 2001. He was an outspoken critic of the state of Israel and a human rights activist."

Gee...not a single mention of driveling idiots, dumbass morons,or drunken sailors.

Can you be a little more specific, doc?

Are you unsettled more by outspoken critics of Israel or human rights activists? 

Jewish History, Jewish Religion:


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## docmauser1 (Nov 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"Israel Shahak was a resident of the Warsaw Ghetto and a survivor of Bergen-Belsen. He arrived in Palestine in 1945 and lived there until his death in 2001. He was an outspoken critic of the state of Israel and a human rights activist." Gee...not a single mention of driveling idiots, dumbass morons,or drunken sailors.
> Can you be a little more specific, doc?_


Of course, he was one, a hero du jour for the same ones. So, how can one make a Shahak-style 007 conspiracy out of acquiring the books, which can be bought freely?





georgephillip said:


> _Are you unsettled more by outspoken critics of Israel or human rights activists?_


It's funny how my staunch followers always try to go personal.


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## georgephillip (Nov 11, 2010)

In the hero of the day category, Shahak reveals on the first page of his book, _Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years_ the incident that inspired him to activism:

"This book, although written in English and addressed to people living outside the State of Israel, is, in a way, a continuation of my political activities as an Israeli Jew. 

"Those activities began in 1965-6 with a protest which caused a considerable scandal at the time: I had personally witnessed an ultra-religious Jew refuse to allow his phone to be used on the Sabbath in order to call an ambulance for a non-Jew who happened to have collapsed in his Jerusalem neighbourhood. 

"Instead of simply publishing the incident in the press, I asked for a meeting which is composed of rabbis *nominated by the State of Israel.* 

"I asked them whether such behavior was consistent with their interpretation of the Jewish religion. 

"They answered that the Jew in question had behaved correctly, *indeed piously*, and backed their statement by referring me to a passage in an authoritative compendium of Talmudic laws, written in this century. 

"I reported the incident to the main Hebrew daily, Ha'aretz, whose publication of the story caused a media scandal..."

Without getting personal, who do you think was the hero in that incident? 

Shahak?
The ultra-religious Jew?
The panel of Rabbis nominated by the state of Israel?

Jewish History, Jewish Religion:


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 11, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _In the hero of the day category, Shahak reveals on the first page of his book, Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years the incident that inspired him to activism: "This book, although written in English and addressed to people living outside the State of Israel, is, in a way, a continuation of my political activities as an Israeli Jew. "Those activities began in 1965-6 with a protest which caused a considerable scandal at the time: I had personally witnessed an ultra-religious Jew refuse to allow his phone to be used on the Sabbath in order to call an ambulance for a non-Jew who happened to have collapsed in his Jerusalem neighbourhood. "Instead of simply publishing the incident in the press, I asked for a meeting which is composed of rabbis nominated by the State of Israel. "I asked them whether such behavior was consistent with their interpretation of the Jewish religion. "They answered that the Jew in question had behaved correctly, indeed piously, and backed their statement by referring me to a passage in an authoritative compendium of Talmudic laws, written in this century. "I reported the incident to the main Hebrew daily, Ha'aretz, whose publication of the story caused a media scandal..." Without getting personal, who do you think was the hero in that incident?_


The magnificent me, of course, who likes to do reasearch, and, as it turned out, violating sabbat in cases of saving health and lives is permissible. Shahak, typically, lied, like that Pol Pot admirer, Chomskin.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 11, 2010)

Based on your research does violating sabbath in cases of saving health and lives take into consideration the race/religion of the health/life being saved?

My research indicates the Ten Commandments applies only between Jews?

What does Maimonides say? (No lies, please)


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 12, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Based on your research does violating sabbath in cases of saving health and lives take into consideration the race/religion of the health/life being saved?_


Nah.





georgephillip said:


> _My research indicates the Ten Commandments applies only between Jews?_


My real reserach indicates christians are, in all honesty, worshipping a jovish rabbi.





georgephillip said:


> _What does Maimonides say?_


Indded, what does he say?





georgephillip said:


> _(No lies, please)_


Never do. The best way to lose credibility is lying. My flock here, though, does it all the time. They never learn.


----------



## jillian (Nov 12, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Based on your research does violating sabbath in cases of saving health and lives take into consideration the race/religion of the health/life being saved?



the answer is no, absolutely not. and you're a liar and insane.

like any other law, including our own civil law, you are not REQUIRED to save any life, but may and it would not violate sabbath.



> My research indicates the Ten Commandments applies only between Jews?



that's a lie and insane. you need to stop doing your purported "research" in the protocols of the learned elders of zion.



> What does Maimonides say? (No lies, please)



near as i can tell, you're the liar... 

and insane.

nutbar.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 12, 2010)

Princess:

Are you of the opinion that Israel Shahak is a nutbar or self-hating Jew when he writes:

"The results of the scandal were, for me, rather negative.

"*Neither the Israeli, nor the diaspora, rabbinical authorities ever reversed their ruling that a Jew should not violate the Sabbath in order to save the life of a Gentile.* 

"They added much sanctimonious twaddle to the effect that if the consequence of such an act puts Jews in danger, the violation of the Sabbath is permitted, for their sake. 

"It became apparent to me, as drawing on Talmudic laws governing the relations between Jews and non-Jews, that neither Zionism, including its seemingly secular part, nor Israeli politics since the inception of the State of Israel, nor particularly the policies of the Jewish supporters of Israel in the diaspora, could be understood unless the deeper influence of those laws, and the worldview which they both create and express is taken into account. 

"The actual policies Israel pursued after the Six Day War, and in particular the *apartheid character of the Israeli regime in the Occupied Territories* and the attitude of the majority of Jews to the issue of the rights of the Palestinians, even in the abstract, have merely strengthened this conviction."

Are you under the impression there are no racist/xenophobic Jews in this world?

Shahak isn't:

"When racism, discrimination and xenophobia is prevalent among Jews, and directed against non-Jews, being fueled by religious motivations, *it is like its opposite case, that of antisemitism and its religious motivations.* 

"Today, however, while the second is being discussed, the very existence of the first is generally ignored, more outside Israel than within it."

Jewish History, Jewish Religion


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 12, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Jewish History, Jewish Religion_


Sometimes me thinks that, Alison Weir, the founder of that garbage dump, had been screwed by some drunk joo. There's no other sane explanation to her rather insane masturbational behavior.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 12, 2010)

Or perhaps you were gang raped by Hamas?

What's the matter?

Don't they call?


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 12, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Or perhaps you were gang raped by Hamas?_


See, folks, the pro-palestinian® gang here endorses gang-rape.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 13, 2010)

Still haven't called?
Don't become hysterical.
I'm sure they still care about you.


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 13, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Still haven't called? Don't become hysterical. I'm sure they still care about you._


That is it, folks, we have a confirmed promoter of gang rape, wife-beating and child molestation.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 13, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > _Jewish History, Jewish Religion_
> ...


Or maybe we've got a confirmed propagandist libeling Alison Weir because he can't find rational arguments to Israel Shahak?

Now, that's insane.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 13, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Democracy or ethnocracy?
> ...



Like anyone who pays property tax.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 13, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Thank you.

The propagandists say that nothing was taken from the Palestinians because they did not own anything. It was leased from the government.

The Ottoman Empire had a property rights system. The property rights were leased from the government, however these rights could be bought, sold, rented, and inherited. It was the same thing we have in the US except it was worded differently. We "lease" the right to own property in the US by paying property taxes.

Furthermore, can we say that someone who rents an apartment in NYC or a house in Chicago has no right to a country because they do not own anything?


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 13, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



No disagreement here. 

So how come the Palestinian can not move 18 miles east, 30 miles north, or 44 miles south.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 13, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



Good Question. What would be wrong about taking someone who was born in Detroit and shuffling him a few miles east to Canada?


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 13, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Actually if your analogy was correct, the distance would be from Detroit to the moon, that is not even being funny, as it is, in Detroit I have the choice to move to Canada if I want, anyhow I was born in Detroit, now I live in California, what is wrong with letting an Arab move 2000 miles. Why must they live in a 10 mile by 10 mile area. 

We are proposing to build Solar Power plants that cover more area than the proposed new nation of Palestine will cover.

Canada is nice, I would love it if someone moved me to Sarnia, Bayfield, or any other town on the coast of Lake Huron


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 13, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



I have no problem with people who want to move. But, in the case of the Palestinians they are kicked out of their homes and forced into another area.

That is my objection.


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 13, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _Furthermore, can we say that someone who rents an apartment in NYC or a house in Chicago has no right to a country because they do not own anything?_


See, gents, that is how our madrasa propagandistas obfuscate things.


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 14, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > _Sometimes me thinks that, Alison Weir, the founder of that garbage dump, had been screwed by some drunk joo. There's no other sane explanation to her rather insane masturbational behavior._
> ...


Weir is a blithering idiot, Shahak was a blithering idiot now comparing notes with Hitler and Stalin, and eff all four of them.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



The were not forced into another area, they fled because the British and Arabs were getting their ass kicked by the Jews which scared the shit out of them, most were in a state of panic. 

Many Palestinians were Bedouin, were they forced out of their homes?

How many came from where they fled, after all we are talking people who fled no more than 6 miles in some cases. 

Forced out of their area into another area, as if just across the river Jordan, in the same valley, within the geographical area of Syria known as Palestine, the east of Palestine where many came originally is another Area. 

A move that is no further than Los Angeles is to Hollywood or Santa Monica.

Thats the problem with this discussion, people have no clue as to how small Israel really is. If the Middle East was a pumpkin pie Israel would be whats left after it was eaten, Israel is the crumbs,  poor Arabs, forced off a tiny crumb of Asia.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



It doesn't matter if someone is kicked out of his home and lives under a bridge across the street. It is still wrong.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



I wonder if they felt used when they realized hundreds of thousands stayed.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 14, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



Do the Palestinians who stayed own the same homes, land, farms, and businesses that they owned before the war?


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 16, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Thats a good question, I am sure some do, I imagine a lot of the people from before the war are dead. So most likely they do not, but how many live a good life in Israel, if so Israel should do something to market this, anyhow more next to useless goggle searches. 

I can speak for the time of 1948, the ones that stayed, many of them stayed in their homes. At least thats what the books of the people who lived during that time wrote. 

I have a nice collection of information, I need more, I have lots of books and a few Time magazines from the period, books to the early 1800's.

Bottom line its a small country, one of the smallest, I have met Palestinians, granted only a couple, but they lived their, they claimed things were okay except for the PLO/Fatah/Hamas desire for power despite the wishes of the people.

Anyhow they will divide the country, and I for one will be more than interested in seeing the numbers of how many Arabs want to live in Palestine or Israel. 

Palestine, now we are building welfare countries, talk about appeasing the Arabs, Saudi Arabian policy, Oil does rule the world.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 16, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Arabs owned minimal land which was under Ottoman Turkish sovereignty for most of the last 500 years.  Arabs, for the most part, leased land from the Sultanate that ultimately was returned to the state.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 16, 2010)

And in your mind that entitles Jews from Poland to take the Arab's home at gunpoint?

Hope you find out exactly how that feels someday soon.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> And in your mind that entitles Jews from Poland to take the Arab's home at gunpoint?
> 
> Hope you find out exactly how that feels someday soon.




A bunch of rabbis from Poland held ferocious Arab bedouins at gunpoint?  

You have any film of that?  I'd love to see it.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 16, 2010)

Your close-up's coming.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Your close-up's coming.



No film of Polish rabbis stealing ferocious Arab bedouins' homes?

Maybe you and Tin Head can make a fake video.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 16, 2010)

A good project for you the next time you're banned for being a bitch.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> A good project for you the next time you're banned for being a bitch.



I'm too busy being well-educated, successful and making money.  

You, not so much


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 16, 2010)

How many Arab children have you personally murdered?


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 16, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> How many Arab children have you personally murdered?



Muslims whom you fellate murder children, like the genocide in Darfur.



> The genocide in Darfur has claimed 400,000 lives and displaced over 2,500,000 people. More than one hundred people continue to die each day; five thousand die every month.
> 
> Since February 2003, the Sudanese government in Khartoum and the government-sponsored Janjaweed militia have used rape, displacement, organized starvation, threats against aid workers and mass murder. Violence, disease, and displacement continue to kill thousands of innocent Darfurians every month.


 Genocide in Darfur, Sudan | Darfur Scorecard
 [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-ojg9UjMk0[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 17, 2010)

"Today about 800 Jews live around the city's old quarter, protected by nearly as many soldiers. 

"An additional 7,000 settlers live in Kiryat Arba adjacent to the city. 

"*More than 150,000 Palestinians live in Hebron*, including thousands in Israeli-controlled sectors.

"This is what they call a sterilized road," Shaul says.

"*That means Palestinians are prohibited from using it, even if they live on it.* 

To keep a security buffer, the military has welded shut metal front doors of Palestinian homes and businesses, leaving a row of abandoned shops in what was once a bustling marketplace.

"Most businesses left or closed because of a lack of customers. Those who remain have to leave their homes over the rooftops, use back doors or cut holes in the interior walls of adjacent empty buildings behind them.

"'Every year they take another corner,' Shaul says."

Former Israeli Soldier...


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 17, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Today about 800 Jews live around the city's old quarter, protected by nearly as many soldiers.
> 
> "An additional 7,000 settlers live in Kiryat Arba adjacent to the city.
> 
> ...



More whining, Palestinian loser?  Don't bother to actually produce anything.

by Goffaq Yussef 

Golly gee, I am SOOOO proud to be a Palestinian Arab from the West Bank. Let me tell you the reasons why I have such warm, fuzzy feelings about my people and culture: 

1. There is no such thing as Mothers Day. No worry about cards, gifts, and expensive meals. There is no honor in being a woman in our culture, so there is no reason to devote a day to her. We do, however, get to enjoy watching our fathers beat our mothers senseless for the slightest real or imagined infraction. Also, if Dad suspects that Mom spoke to a strange man in the street, he gets to kill her to preserve the family honor! 

2. Weapons. Every child, from the time he can grasp an object, is trained to feel comfortable with a rifle or pistol in his hand. And every Palestinian has a weapon: a gun, a rocket launcher, a pound of C-4. What good are hands if they aren't used to kill? 

3. Hate. Boy, we love to hate. Hate is the very basis and foundation of our culture. From the time a child is old enough to understand language, we teach him to hate. Hate Jews, hate the West, hate his fellow man, and most of all, hate himself. We have no love songs, we do not preach love, the word love does not appear anywhere in our society. Hate is the fuel that runs our motors. 

4. Death. The moment a Palestinian Arab child is born, his parents begin to plan his death. How will he die? Will he be struck by an Israeli bullet while being used as a human shield by Palestinian gunmen? Will he get shot while throwing rocks at Jewish soldiers? Will he be packed with explosives and sent to blow himself up, killing others? Or will he merely be one of the many Palestinians murdered by other Palestinians in the normal course of daily life in 
the death-culture of the Palestinian Arabs? Who knows? That's part of the thrill. 

5. Unemployment. Palestinians used to have jobs, working in Israel. But then, our leaders had a brilliant idea: suicide bombings! For their own protection, Israel had to close its borders, preventing Palestinians from going to their jobs, so they could sit around unemployed and blame the Jews for it. What great fun to be your own worst enemy! 

6. Martyrdom. Who in their right mind wants to be a martyr? Among normal people, a martyr complex is considered immature and obnoxious, if not downright crazy. With us, it's the central syndrome of our society! Hey, look at me, I'm gonna kill myself and become admired! And then, when we do kill ourselves, instead of being considered pathetic, we DO get admired! It's a whole complete cycle of sickness! American kids collect baseball cards; Palestinian kids collect martyr cards (really! no joke!). 

7. A feeling of entitlement. When Israel came into being, we declared war. We lost. We fought again. We lost. We fought again. We lost. Israel had the right to kill us all (we sure would kill all of them if we got the chance). Instead, they allow us to live on land they conquered. But we can't leave that alone. We have to claim entitlement to live on land that we lost in 6 wars. Since when does the loser of a war get to claim the land he fought over? They don't. But we do. Not only that, but we happily kill our kids over it! Hey, what's more important -- a chunk of dirt, or some worthless kid who isn't going to amount to anything anyway? 

8. Uselessness. The Jews have won more Nobel Prizes than all other ethnic groups combined. Their contributions to science, art, literature and the humanities is far out of proportion to their population. What have Palestinians produced? Nothing! Not a thing. We don't do anything productive. We're too busy rioting and killing and chanting and screaming and calling for everyone's death. And we blame the Jews for it, as though the Jews stop us from being productive. 

9. Friends. The Palestinian people sure know how to pick 'em. Saadam Hussein. The Taliban. Adolf Hitler. You name a psychopath, and we embrace him. And look who our supporters are! The American Nazi Party. The KKK. Just check their websites and see how they stand in solidarity with us. When you support the Palestinian "cause," you're in real good company. Bring your white sheet! 

10. Freedom. The biggest laugh in the world is when people call us "freedom fighters" or they say we're fighting for our freedom. Take a look at all 22 Arab countries. Do you see any freedom there? Well, that's what our country will be like if we ever get one. It 
will be a dictatorship run by armed, masked thugs who will kill anyone who dissents. Just like we are now. Freedom???? LOLOLOLOL The word doesn't even exist in our language. Hey, just like George Orwell said: "Freedom is slavery. Long live big brother!" 

Remember: Israel is bad! 
Its existence keeps reminding us what a bunch of losers we are.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 18, 2010)

Another heroic Jew....

"Hebron was split in two in the aftermath of the 1994 massacre by settler *Baruch Goldstein*, who shot to death 29 praying Palestinians.

Celebrate Baruch the Bitch.

Feel free to whine.

Parasite.

Former Israeli Soldier...


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Another heroic Jew....
> 
> "Hebron was split in two in the aftermath of the 1994 massacre by settler *Baruch Goldstein*, who shot to death 29 praying Palestinians.
> 
> ...



"Oh, Allah, Kill All Jews And Americans"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rls9eRKyo[/ame]


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _And in your mind that entitles Jews from Poland to take the Arab's home at gunpoint?_


Provided arabs from the hood had the home in the first place, of course, which they didn't. Very simple.


----------



## mdn2000 (Nov 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Today about 800 Jews live around the city's old quarter, protected by nearly as many soldiers
> 
> Former Israeli Soldier...



Proving Hamas has no authority or control and that Palestinians are blood thirsty savages


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 18, 2010)

Hamas has no control on the West Bank.

Or Brooklyn.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Hamas has no control on the West Bank.
> 
> Or Brooklyn.



Uneducated one, the correct historical geographic name of the land is Judea, not the West Bank.

There are no references to The West Bank in the Hebrew Bible.

Now, you know


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 18, 2010)

The Hebrew Bible is just another lie slaves tell.

Slave.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 18, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> The Hebrew Bible is just another lie slaves tell.
> 
> Slave.



Jackass, historical evidence substantiates references to Judea in the Hebrew Bible

Go to sleep, you fat, lazy drunk.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 18, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "Today about 800 Jews live around the city's old quarter, protected by nearly as many soldiers
> ...



Well, have some compassion for the Pallie losers, after all, they have that crappy Arab Muslim DNA preventing them from being civilized...

by Goffaq Yussef [Pt 1]

Golly gee, I am SOOOO proud to be a Palestinian Arab from the West Bank. Let me tell you the reasons why I have such warm, fuzzy feelings about my people and culture: 

1. There is no such thing as Mothers Day. No worry about cards, gifts, and expensive meals. There is no honor in being a woman in our culture, so there is no reason to devote a day to her. We do, however, get to enjoy watching our fathers beat our mothers senseless for the slightest real or imagined infraction. Also, if Dad suspects that Mom spoke to a strange man in the street, he gets to kill her to preserve the family honor! 

2. Weapons. Every child, from the time he can grasp an object, is trained to feel comfortable with a rifle or pistol in his hand. And every Palestinian has a weapon: a gun, a rocket launcher, a pound of C-4. What good are hands if they aren't used to kill? 

3. Hate. Boy, we love to hate. Hate is the very basis and foundation of our culture. From the time a child is old enough to understand language, we teach him to hate. Hate Jews, hate the West, hate his fellow man, and most of all, hate himself. We have no love songs, we do not preach love, the word love does not appear anywhere in our society. Hate is the fuel that runs our motors. 

4. Death. The moment a Palestinian Arab child is born, his parents begin to plan his death. How will he die? Will he be struck by an Israeli bullet while being used as a human shield by Palestinian gunmen? Will he get shot while throwing rocks at Jewish soldiers? Will he be packed with explosives and sent to blow himself up, killing others? Or will he merely be one of the many Palestinians murdered by other Palestinians in the normal course of daily life in 
the death-culture of the Palestinian Arabs? Who knows? That's part of the thrill. 

5. Unemployment. Palestinians used to have jobs, working in Israel. But then, our leaders had a brilliant idea: suicide bombings! For their own protection, Israel had to close its borders, preventing Palestinians from going to their jobs, so they could sit around unemployed and blame the Jews for it. What great fun to be your own worst enemy!


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 18, 2010)

How To Be A Palestiniain Loser [Pt 2]

6. Martyrdom. Who in their right mind wants to be a martyr? Among normal people, a martyr complex is considered immature and obnoxious, if not downright crazy. With us, it's the central syndrome of our society! Hey, look at me, I'm gonna kill myself and become admired! And then, when we do kill ourselves, instead of being considered pathetic, we DO get admired! It's a whole complete cycle of sickness! American kids collect baseball cards; Palestinian kids collect martyr cards (really! no joke!). 

7. A feeling of entitlement. When Israel came into being, we declared war. We lost. We fought again. We lost. We fought again. We lost. Israel had the right to kill us all (we sure would kill all of them if we got the chance). Instead, they allow us to live on land they conquered. But we can't leave that alone. We have to claim entitlement to live on land that we lost in 6 wars. Since when does the loser of a war get to claim the land he fought over? They don't. But we do. Not only that, but we happily kill our kids over it! Hey, what's more important -- a chunk of dirt, or some worthless kid who isn't going to amount to anything anyway? 

8. Uselessness. The Jews have won more Nobel Prizes than all other ethnic groups combined. Their contributions to science, art, literature and the humanities is far out of proportion to their population. What have Palestinians produced? Nothing! Not a thing. We don't do anything productive. We're too busy rioting and killing and chanting and screaming and calling for everyone's death. And we blame the Jews for it, as though the Jews stop us from being productive. 

9. Friends. The Palestinian people sure know how to pick 'em. Saadam Hussein. The Taliban. Adolf Hitler. You name a psychopath, and we embrace him. And look who our supporters are! The American Nazi Party. The KKK. Just check their websites and see how they stand in solidarity with us. When you support the Palestinian "cause," you're in real good company. Bring your white sheet! 

10. Freedom. The biggest laugh in the world is when people call us "freedom fighters" or they say we're fighting for our freedom. Take a look at all 22 Arab countries. Do you see any freedom there? Well, that's what our country will be like if we ever get one. It 
will be a dictatorship run by armed, masked thugs who will kill anyone who dissents. Just like we are now. Freedom???? LOLOLOLOL The word doesn't even exist in our language. Hey, just like George Orwell said: "Freedom is slavery. Long live big brother!" 

Remember: Israel is bad! 
Its existence keeps reminding us what a bunch of losers we are.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 19, 2010)

But you're not a RACIST.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 19, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> But you're not a RACIST.



Islam = Racist

Quran 5:51...


> O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as friends.  They are but friends to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as friends, then surely he is one of them.


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 20, 2010)

"*All non-Jews are totally satanic creatures 'in whom there is absolutely nothing good.'* 

"Even a non-Jewish embryo is qualitatively different from a Jewish one. 

"*The very existence of a non-Jew is 'non-essential', whereas all creation was created solely for the sake of the Jews."*

All creation?
For Jews?
Isn't that a little...
Greedy?

What Our Taxes...


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "*All non-Jews are totally satanic creatures 'in whom there is absolutely nothing good.'*


*

The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in  (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland,  Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria 

Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)



			Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means if a very important one of enlarging peoples choices. 
Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "*All non-Jews are totally satanic creatures 'in whom there is absolutely nothing good.'*


*

Quran 5:51...



			O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as friends.  They are but friends to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as friends, then surely he is one of them.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "*All non-Jews are totally satanic creatures 'in whom there is absolutely nothing good.'*


*

Quran 58:20...



			Those who oppose Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), they will be among the lowest (most humiliated).
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 20, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Greedy?



Greedy Arabs: 30 countries, 8 million sq miles, 99.9% of Middle East, twice the size of the US.
Jews: Just one country, 8 thousand sq mi, only 0.1% of ME, the size of Vermont


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 21, 2010)

"First, he starts out by quoting the First Amendment of the US Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

It is strange that an Israel advocate should draw attention to this bedrock principle of democracy, since Israel violates it so systematically. 

"Israel is a self-defined 'Jewish state' in which non-Jews (i.e. the Christians and Muslims who made up a majority of the population in this land until recently, and still make up almost twenty percent of the population) *are second-class citizens*, at best.

"While US media almost never report this, *the fact is that their religions are routinely disparaged, their economic situation is far inferior, their children are taught in school that Jewish culture is superior to all others, and periodically there are outright attacks on their institutions and texts -- in 1980 hundreds of copies of the New Testament were publicly and ceremonially burnt in Jerusalem under the auspices of a Jewish organization subsidized by the Israeli Ministry of Religions.* 

"Today, thousands of Muslims and Christians under Israeli occupation are prevented from worshiping in their holiest churches and mosques."

What Our Taxes...

What percentage of the African continent did White South Africa comprise?

How about Hitler's percentage of Europe?

Your racist state is SWIFTLY swirling the same drain.


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "First, he starts out by quoting the First Amendment of the US Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."



Israel is the only country in the Middle East with freedom of religion.  

Now, even you know.

The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in  (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland,  Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria 

Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)


> Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means if a very important one of enlarging peoples choices.
> Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 21, 2010)

> Israel is the only country in the Middle East with freedom of religion.



Palestine Basic Law (constitution)

TITLE TWO
PUBLIC RIGHTS & FREEDOMS
Article (9)
All Palestinians are equal under the law and judiciary, without discrimination because of race, sex, color, religion, political views, or disability.

Article (18)
Freedom of belief, worship, and performance of religious rituals are guaranteed, provided that they do not violate public order or public morals.

http://www.usaid.gov/wbg/misc/Amended_Basic_Law.pdf


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> > Israel is the only country in the Middle East with freedom of religion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Al Arabiya, 12/24/08
Hamas Approves Law Of Punishment By Lashes, Amputating Hands, Crucifying, and Execution -- In Order To Implement The Islamic Sharia Law...* 



> *Hamas members of the Palestinian Legislative Council approved in its meeting in Gaza a new bill proposed by the Hamas who have a majority in the Legislative Council, whose purpose is "to implement Koranic punishments." The newspaper Al Hayat of London reported on Dec. 24, 2008, that this step is seen as unprecedented, and has brought criticism and concern from human rights organizations in the Gaza Strip, especially as this law includes punishments by lashes, cutting off of hands, crucifixion, and execution...
> The language of the law proposes "primary and secondary" laws. Primary laws include: "Koranic laws, blood revenge, lashes, crucifixion, and execution ..."*
> 
> Section 59 of the law establishes that "punishment of death will be enacted on any Palestinian who intentionally does one of the following: Raised a weapon against Palestine on behalf of the enemy during war, was appointed to negotiate with a foreign government on a Palestinian issue and negotiated against Palestinians' interest, performed a hostile action against a foreign country in a way that endangers Palestine in war or in harming political relations, served a foreign army in time of war, advised or helped soldiers to enlist in this army, weakened the spirit or the force of resistance of the people, or spied against Palestine especially during war."
> ...


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 21, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> > Israel is the only country in the Middle East with freedom of religion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> We are under occupation, said Abu Mohammed, a secular businessman with close family ties to the old Fatah security services. After the takeover, people thought it might get better if the religious guys were in charge of the money, that security would improve and corruption would end. But theyre just as corrupt: If youre not in Hamas, you get nothing. If anyone does anything, they are arrested, tortured or killed. Just like with the Israelis. Except the Jews always give you a lawyer.
> 
> People are very angry. They have no money, no lives, no jobs and not even useful resistance against the enemy of Israel, he said. People will try and get rid of Hamas but right now they cant because its too strong.
> 
> ...


Under the gun: how the people of Gaza feel about Hamas


----------



## P F Tinmore (Nov 21, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > > Israel is the only country in the Middle East with freedom of religion.
> ...



Thanks for the link.

Good read.

Under the gun: how the people of Gaza feel about Hamas


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 29, 2010)

"This is the entrance to the Gaza Strip: a 250-metre long causeway of exposed concrete slabs about five metres wide, surrounded by barbed wire, CCTV cameras and motion sensors, and closely *monitored by remote-controlled machine guns mounted on the huge concrete walls that mark the border around the Erez Crossing Terminal. 

"This awful corniche, a fitting introduction to the physical and social isolation inside Gaza, *traverses a deep buffer zone that separates the Israeli military and border police at Erez from the Hamas border guards, who maintain their own checkpoint 500 metres away. 

"It's difficult to coordinate along a border when neither side recognises the other's right to *exist - but determining exactly who gets to make the harrowing walk between the two checkpoints is as close as these two belligerents come to cooperation..."

Cooperation Hitler and Stalin would be inspired by:

"What was once a sign of a developing peace has now been turned into a wasteland of rubble, guarded on one side by Islamic radicals and on the other by deadly machine guns operated by teenaged conscripts in a far-off control room."

Somewhere Moses and Goebbels are smiling.

Under the gun


----------



## Marc39 (Nov 29, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "This is the entrance to the Gaza Strip: a 250-metre long causeway of exposed concrete slabs about five metres wide, surrounded by barbed wire, CCTV cameras and motion sensors, and closely *monitored by remote-controlled machine guns mounted on the huge concrete walls that mark the border around the Erez Crossing Terminal.
> 
> "This awful corniche, a fitting introduction to the physical and social isolation inside Gaza, *traverses a deep buffer zone that separates the Israeli military and border police at Erez from the Hamas border guards, who maintain their own checkpoint 500 metres away.
> 
> ...



*Khaled Abu Toameh: Gaza Women: Who is Defending Their Rights?* 


> It is not easy to be a woman living under a fundamentalist Islamic regime like the one in the Gaza Strip. Over the past three years, women in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip have been facing a campaign of intimidation and terror that has forced many of them to sit at home and do nothing. The fact that women are oppressed under radical Islamic regimes is of course very disturbing. But what is even more disturbing is the silence over abuse of women's rights in the Gaza Strip.
> Has anyone heard prominent Palestinian spokeswoman Hanan Ashrawi come out in public against Hamas's repressive measures against Palestinian women? Where are local and international human rights organizations, especially those that claim to defend rights of women in the Arab and Islamic world?  Has any major media outlet in the West thought of making a documentary about the suffering of women under Hamas?
> 
> Or are they so obsessed with everything that Israel does [or does not do] that they prefer to turn a blind eye to what is happening in the Gaza Strip? Has anyone dared to ask Hamas why sending women to carry out suicide bombings is all right, while it is not ok for them to walk alone on the beach or be seen in public with a man? Have "pro-Palestinian" groups in North America and Europe ever thought of endorsing the case of these women by raising awareness to their plight?
> ...


The West, Islam and Sharia: Gaza's Women: Who Is Defending Their Rights?


----------



## georgephillip (Nov 29, 2010)

What role did Israel play in bringing Hamas into existence?


----------



## docmauser1 (Nov 30, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _What role did Israel play in bringing Hamas into existence?_


Bin Laden moms 'n pops, accusing Israel of hamas. Galactically hoolarious.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 1, 2010)

How about the role fair elections played in the rise of Hamas?

"The road to Gaza's present misery began, as many things do, with an election. 

"In 2006, Palestinian voters rejected the corruption, nepotism and incompetence of the long-ruling Fatah Party and elected Hamas, the *Islamic Resistance Movement - *surprising no one except the US State Department*, which had brushed aside *Israeli concerns that Hamas would prevail in a fair election."

*And other odd fascists.*


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 1, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> How about the role fair elections played in the rise of Hamas?
> 
> "The road to Gaza's present misery began, as many things do, with an election.
> 
> ...



No love for the Pallie women who have acid thrown in their faces by Hamas for dressing immodestly?

*Israeli Arab Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh*


> *Here is some last-minute advice to the group of women who are planning to organize another aid ship to break the Israeli naval blockade on the Gaza Strip: Do not forget to wear the hijab and cover other parts of your body before you arrive at the Hamas-controlled area. And make sure that none of you is seen laughing in public. Otherwise, you are likely to meet the same fate as other Palestinian women who have been physically and verbally abused by fundamentalist Muslims in the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Some women in the Gaza Strip have had acid splashed in their faces for allegedly being dressed "immodestly" or for being seen in public with a male who is not a husband, father, brother or son.  Just recently, Hamas's Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice stopped female journalist Asthma al-Ghul under the pretext that she came to the beach dressed "immodestly" and was seen laughing in public.  "They accused me of laughing loudly while swimming with my friend, and for failing to wear a hijab," she told a human rights organization in the Gaza Strip. "They also wanted to know the identity of the people who were swimming with me at the beach and whether they were relatives of mine."  This incident came only days after a Hamas judge ordered all female lawyers appearing in court to wear headscarves and a long, dark colored clock under their black robes.  By seeking to help Hamas, the women who are planning to sail to the Gaza Strip are in fact encouraging the fundamentalist movement to continue oppressing Palestinian women living there.  Wouldn't it have been better and more helpful had the same group of female activists launched a campaign to promote women's rights under Hamas? Or to protest against the severe restrictions imposed by Hamas on all women, including the right to stroll along the beach alone or to wear a swim suit?*
> 
> ...


Love of the Land: On Breaking Israel's Naval Blockade


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 2, 2010)

"*This is a time for truth*. 

"For America is about to make a momentous decision: whether to launch *a series of wars in the Middle East *that could ignite the Clash of Civilizations against which Harvard professor Samuel Huntington has warned, a war we believe would be a tragedy and a disaster for this Republic. 

"To avert this war, to answer the neocon smears, we ask that our readers review their agenda as stated in their words. 

"*Sunlight is the best disinfectant*. 

"As Al Smith used to say, 'Nothing un-American can live in the sunlight.'

"We charge that a cabal of polemicists and public officials seek to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in Americas interests. 

"*We charge them with colluding with Israel to ignite those wars and destroy the Oslo Accords*. 

"We charge them with deliberately damaging U.S. relations with every state in the Arab world that defies Israel or supports the Palestinian peoples right to a homeland of their own. 

"We charge that they have alienated friends and allies all over the Islamic and Western world through their arrogance, hubris, and bellicosity.

"Not in our lifetimes has America been so isolated from old friends. 

"Far worse, President Bush is being lured into a trap baited for him by these neocons that could... cause America to forfeit *years of peace* won for us by the sacrifices of two generations in the Cold War.

"*They charge us with anti-Semitismi.e., a hatred of Jews for their faith, heritage, or ancestry*. 

"False. 

"The truth is, those hurling these charges harbor a 'passionate attachment' to a nation not our own that causes them to subordinate the interests of their own country and to act on an assumption that, somehow, whats good for Israel is good for America."

Those with a "passionate attachment" to the Jewish state are anti-American.

That's the truth this time demands.

The American Conservative


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 2, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "*This is a time for truth*.
> amconmag.com



BOGUS "con" website.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 2, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"This is the entrance to the Gaza Strip: a 250-metre long causeway of exposed concrete slabs about five metres wide, surrounded by barbed wire, CCTV cameras and motion sensors, and closely *monitored by remote-controlled machine guns mounted on the huge concrete walls that mark the border around the Erez Crossing Terminal._


The madrasa virii are contained.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 2, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _Gaza's present misery began, as many things do, with an election._


Entailing the collective responsibility, of course.


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 2, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > _Gaza's present misery began, as many things do, with an election._
> ...



Not to mention scraping the bottom of the barrel for Israel's elections.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 2, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Islam condoning wife beating is scraping the bottom of the barrel, jihadist
MEMRI: Egyptian Cleric Sa&#039;d Arafat: Islam Permits Wife Beating Only When She Refuses to Have Sex with Her Husband


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 2, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



Seen it.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 2, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
> ...



Dinner is late.  Allah says beat your wife
MEMRI: Egyptian Cleric Sa&#039;d Arafat: Islam Permits Wife Beating Only When She Refuses to Have Sex with Her Husband


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 2, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Seen it.


----------



## docmauser1 (Dec 2, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


See, palistaniacs are such unbelievable madrasa assholes!


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 3, 2010)

Like you're kosher pork?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 3, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Like you're kosher pork?



Mahomet = Pedophile

Sahih Bukhari 5, 58, 236... 


> Narrated Hisham's father:
> 
> Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 4, 2010)

"The Palestinians, apparently, live beyond the pale of citizenry and political life. *They dwell beyond a political system based on a Jewish majority, and this without the benefit of a wall.* 

"Once this society that lived &#8211; and still lives &#8211; under occupation evolved its struggle for national sovereignty and for separation in an independent state comprising Palestinian citizens Israel responded with plans to separate from the Palestinians on its own terms. 

"What Israel wants to separate itself from is the largest possible number of Palestinians living on the smallest possible area of land. 

"The self-rule plans negotiated with Egypt in January 1980, the Oslo Accords, the Camp David proposals, the unilateral withdrawal schemes by Sharon and Olmert, the Geneva initiative by the Zionist Israeli left, and the separation wall, are merely different manifestations of such thinking."

A Short History of Apartheid


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 4, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "The Palestinians, apparently, live beyond the pale of citizenry and political life. *They dwell beyond a political system based on a Jewish majority, and this without the benefit of a wall.*



Jews are the Palestinians since the Romans renamed Judea, the correct historical geographic name for the land, "Palaestina" 1500 years after Jews were living there and 500 years before the Muslim intruders invaded.

Your history lesson for the day.  

Former PLO Leader Zuheir Mohsen...


> The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.


Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Arab American Journalist Joe Farah...


> There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.
> 
> Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.


Myths of the Middle East


Arab Commentator Azmi Bishara...


> Well, I dont think there is a Palestinian nation at all. I think there is an Arab nation. I always thought so and I did not change my mind. I do not think there is a Palestinian nation, I think its a colonialist invention - Palestinian nation. When were there any Palestinians? Where did it come from? I think there is an Arab nation. I never turned to be a Palestinian nationalist, despite of my decisive struggle against the occupation. I think that until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the south of Greater Syria.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n5-yG-6dU[/ame]


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 5, 2010)

"t is difficult to describe the maze of walls and barriers constructed around the villages in the vicinity of Jerusalem. It is difficult to imagine the ugliness brought about in the course of controlling people and land: gates and observation towers, double walls, barbed and electrical wires. 

"What we have here is a *wide-scale recreation of the detention camp* which Giorgio Agamben called the *essence of the modern fascist state*. 

"This is a place where the exception becomes the rule, and *the state of emergency becomes permanent*, to use the words of Walter Benjamin."

A Short History...


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "t is difficult to describe the maze of walls and barriers constructed around the villages in the vicinity of Jerusalem.



*Israeli Arab Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh: Arabs And Muslims Run To Israel*


> *Many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have a dream: to work or live in Israel. Some even say they are prepared to pay large sums of money to obtain Israeli citizenship. * Others pay a lot of money to Palestinian and Jewish traffickers who help them bypass checkpoints to enter Israel in search of work and good life.  These are not self-hating Palestinians. Nor are they "pro-Israel traitors" who support the Zionist movement. Many Palestinians feel that neither Fatah nor Hamas has done enough to alleviate their suffering. Many Fatah leaders who stole billions of dollars of international donations earmarked for the Palestinians have invested their fortunes in hotels, tourist resorts and real estate firms in the West. Hamas, on the other hand, prefers to spend millions of dollars on purchasing [and smuggling] large amounts of weapons, including rockets and ammunition.
> 
> It is a disgrace for Arab and Muslim dictators, particularly those who make billions of dollars from selling oil, that their constituents have to seek work and refuge in Israel and the West. It is also a disgrace for Fatah and Hamas that thousands of Palestinians cannot find jobs or a good life in the two Palestinian states in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  Arab and Islamic regimes are spending billions of dollars on building new mosques and madrasas while nearly half of their people are illiterate and live under the poverty line. University graduates in these countries are forced to search for work in the West because of poor working conditions and lack of opportunities.
> 
> ...



The Iconoclast - New English Review

Khaled Abu Toameh...


> *Most Arabs in Jerusalem prefer to live under Israeli rule for a number of reasons. First, because as holders of Israeli ID cards they are entitled to many rights and privileges that Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip don't enjoy. They include freedom of movement and social, economic, health and education services that Israeli citizens are entitled to.*
> 
> Redividing Jerusalem means bringing either the Palestinian Authority of Hamas into the city. The Arab residents of Jerusalem have seen what happened in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the past 16 years and are not keen to live under a corrupt authority or a radical Islamist entity.
> 
> Over the past few years, many Arab residents of the city who used to live in the West Bank have abandoned their homes and returned to Jerusalem. They did so mainly out of fear of losing their rights and privileges as holders of Israeli ID cards.  But many of them also ran away from the West Bank because they did not want to live in territories controlled by militiamen, armed gangs and corrupt leaders and institutions.


Yahoo! Groups

Khaled Abu Toameh...


> *Arabs living in Israel have always enjoyed free and unlimited access to medical services. Israeli hospitals have always been full of Arab patients, who often heap praise on doctors and nurses for offering them the best treatment.*
> 
> Even Arabs from neighboring countries have been seeking medical treatment in Israeli hospitals.  Many Arabs in Jerusalem are extremely grateful to the Israeli medical teams for their services. Hundreds, if not thousands, of Arabs can testify how these paramedics and doctors saved their lives.
> 
> Just two weeks ago, a 65-year-old Arab woman in Jerusalem who suffered a heart attack talked about how the Magen David medical team that rushed to her home had literally saved her life.  Magen David paramedics should be commended for the great work they are doing to offer the best medical treatment to patients -- regardless of their nationality and religion. They should be commended for endangering their lives to enter Arab villages and neighborhoods to save lives.


 Why do PalArabs attack ambulances? (Khaled Abu Toameh) : South Capitol Street


----------



## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

Is this Tinmore for real?  Must be from the (very) deep South.    They have some of the same Inbreeding Homozygous Coefficients that are found (granted, in far higher degrees) in the Muslim countries. This is why they never get anything done. It is why there is not one country in the Middle East that was created by Arabians. Not one! Incoming and outgoing Empires created the Arabian countries because they were no more than itinerants. To this day, they are still following the throwback methods of two thousand years ago and with degrees of inbreeding in the seventies it is easily seen that their best have been decimated in these thousands of years.

But of course, this is not politically correct, so no one speaks to these deleterious effects to the Muslim people. And this inbreeding predates Islam! Mohammad constrained inbreeding when he said that true believers should marry in the distant, not the near. 

They did not listen. Massive inter-generational inbreeding has truly done them in.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Is this Tinmore for real?  Must be from the (very) deep South.    They have some of the same Inbreeding Homozygous Coefficients that are found (granted, in far higher degrees) in the Muslim countries. This is why they never get anything done. It is why there is not one country in the Middle East that was created by Arabians. Not one! Incoming and outgoing Empires created the Arabian countries because they were no more than itinerants. To this day, they are still following the throwback methods of two thousand years ago and with degrees of inbreeding in the seventies it is easily seen that their best have been decimated in these thousands of years.
> 
> But of course, this is not politically correct, so no one speaks to these deleterious effects to the Muslim people. And this inbreeding predates Islam! Mohammad constrained inbreeding when he said that true believers should marry in the distant, not the near.
> 
> They did not listen. Massive inter-generational inbreeding has truly done them in.



The ignorant Arab wasn't even clever enough to figure out he had oil under his own feet.  The infidel US oil companies had to show them.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> The ignorant Arab wasn't even clever enough to figure out he had oil under his own feet.  The infidel US oil companies had to show them.



Indeed! And I extend this to say that if we allow any movement that turns the West into Democratic apologists for their modernity rather than staunch Republican advocates for the West's true strengths, then we are walking backwards. Those such as the one we were speaking of are the ones who would have kept America out of World War II until too late. 

They are still here today and are still as lost as they were in thirty nine.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > The ignorant Arab wasn't even clever enough to figure out he had oil under his own feet.  The infidel US oil companies had to show them.
> ...



The Arab and the Muslim worlds will never transition out of the Middle Ages and into modernity because their allah does not will them to do so.  

An old Arab proverb is "Knowledge is infidelity" [to allah] which has doomed their backward culture.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> The Arab and the Muslim worlds will never transition out of the Middle Ages and into modernity because their allah does not will them to do so.
> 
> An old Arab proverb is "Knowledge is infidelity" [to allah] which has doomed their backward culture.



Ah, but can we drag them into civility? That's the question. They will not do it on their own for certain, but possibly our Diaspora can help a transition of their people when the ME is no longer able to support their massive populations with external shipping of both water and food.

In a short twenty years this natural effect will be undeniable.  Israel has desalination technology that it shares with both Jordan and Egypt, so they will be far better off. Otherwise, it's a trouble in the making.  Regional peace would help these backward countries to move forward. 

I see more death due to Muslim inaction with regards to helping their own survive. Nature will do more for Muslim kill ratios than Israel's tactical nuclear reduced yield nukes. 

But the Muslims do not see that the longer they fight and forgo true peace talks, the closer they come to their own dissolution. The dissolution of those who suffer great effects of the thousands of generation's who suffer the effects of Muslim inbreeding.

But no one will even admit to such a thing. That's what is truly amazing.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > The Arab and the Muslim worlds will never transition out of the Middle Ages and into modernity because their allah does not will them to do so.
> ...



The Islamic world cannot be dragged into modernity, for the most part, because Islamic doctrine opposes all non-Muslims.   The basis of Islam is dar al-Islam dar al-Harb, House of Islam House of War that dictates all Muslims must be in a perpetual state of war with the House of War until the House of War is defeated and all kafirs [non-Muslims] are in the House of Islam, whether voluntarily or by force.

Islam is Arabic for "submission" and is antithetical to a democratic state, which is why there are virtually no democracies among nearly 60 Islamic countries.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ropey said:


> But the Muslims do not see that the longer they fight and forgo true peace talks, the closer they come to their own dissolution. The dissolution of those who suffer great effects of the thousands of generation's who suffer the effects of Muslim inbreeding.



Islam is an ideology of suffering.  Islam is an illness. 

Ayatollah Khomeini...


> Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

Possibly so. I believe that the exercise in humanity that is called Democracy will overthrow all fanatic ideologies. It will come from without, not within. But the source will have to be smashed for the Diaspora to bring a modernity to the book. Remember that the changes to the Christian doctrine has been changed by external influences. Possibly Islam will also make these changes.

I am not saying this will happen, but it is entirely possible 'if' the source is moderated.  

It worked for Germany and Japan and they were fanatic ideologies. Will it work for Islam? I don't know, but I do think that it's their only chance at civility and modernity.

If one could purchase civility, then Saudi Arabia would be a civil country. It can't be bought. It must be learned. From where? The backs of governing rather than ruling are the instigators of civility.



Marc39 said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > But the Muslims do not see that the longer they fight and forgo true peace talks, the closer they come to their own dissolution. The dissolution of those who suffer great effects of the thousands of generation's who suffer the effects of Muslim inbreeding.
> ...


----------



## P F Tinmore (Dec 5, 2010)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evE5yyRF5U0[/ame]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/134774-sleepless-in-gaza-and-jerusalem.html


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Possibly so. I believe that the exercise in humanity that is called Democracy will overthrow all fanatic ideologies. It will come from without, not within. But the source will have to be smashed for the Diaspora to bring a modernity to the book. Remember that the changes to the Christian doctrine has been changed by external influences. Possibly Islam will also make these changes.



No Islamic democracy has ever existed in 1400 years.  Turkey came close, but, has become radicalized since AKP came to power.

In Islam, allah is the head of state and shariah law, which is based on the Quran, governs the Islamic state, known as a caliphate.  The last such caliphate was the Ottoman Empire ruled by the Sultanate

Thus, Islam is inherently opposed to a pluralistic democracy that is based on freedom


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ropey said:


> t worked for Germany and Japan and they were fanatic ideologies. Will it work for Islam? I don't know, but I do think that it's their only chance at civility and modernity.



Muslims say they are backward because it is willed by allah.  If allah wants them to be successful, allah will do so.

How do you even deal with such an irrational belief system?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> sleepless-in-gaza



*Khaled Abu Toameh: Hamas's Siege Of Gaza *


> As Israeli naval commandos raided the flotilla ship convoy that was on its way to the Gaza Strip, Hamas security officers stormed the offices of five non-governmental organizations, confiscated equipment and documents, and ordered them closed indefinitely.  Ever since it seized control over the Gaza Strip in the summer of 2007, *Hamas has imposed a reign of terror on the local population in general and its critics in particular. Hamas has brought nothing to the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip other than death and disaster.*
> 
> The raid on the NGOs in the Gaza Strip, which received little coverage in the media, is seen by many Palestinians as part of Hamas's ongoing crackdown on political opponents and human rights organizations.  Further, Hamas's recent decision to ban municipal elections in the Gaza Strip is yet another violation of one of the basic rights of its constituents.  Hundreds of Palestinians have been arrested by Hamas's security forces for daring to speak out against the state of tyranny and intimidation in the Gaza Strip. Over the past three years, dozens of Fatah officials and members have either been thrown into prison or killed.  Under Hamas, the Gaza Strip is being transformed into a fundamentalist Islamic entity resembling the regimes of the Ayatollahs in Iran and the Taliban in Afghanistan.
> 
> ...



Internation Musing: Istanbul, Amsterdam, Delhi, Portland, Utrecht, The Hague and Thessaloniki.: What About Hamas's Siege of Gaza? (by Khaled Abu Toameh)


----------



## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> How do you even deal with such an irrational belief system?



In the same way we have dealt with previous irrational belief systems. History repeats and if it repeats again, then we have already won, by the very nature of the fight finally being taken up to its fullness.

America is known to do the right thing in the end. They never do it until there seems to be no other choice. 

I stand to history. It's my only method of possible projection of future prognostications. Islam does not have the luxury of growing into modernity otherwise. 

So, both our views are arguable. The future will show if the historical precepts are correct.  That being said, political correctness and Democracies inability to quickly respond to silent sedition will make this path longer than one might like. But the path will continue if history is any judge.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > How do you even deal with such an irrational belief system?
> ...



Islam is sui generis as a belief system.   It can only be changed from within and this is unlikely to happen.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Islam is sui generis as a belief system.   It can only be changed from within and this is unlikely to happen.



The definitive word is "unlikely" and I agree. But if the source is smashed and the external influences are brought in (a la Germany and Japan) when the war comes, then it is possible, however unlikely. The war comes to the arena because Iran will not back down. They wish to usher in the Twelfth Imam and believe that they can hasten his return. All one has to do is read Ahmadinejad's prefaces to any UN speech he gives to understand what he wants to 'hasten'.


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## mdn2000 (Dec 5, 2010)

Nothing says it better than Facts and Logic, I wonder if anyone can find an error or lie, I see this article as historical fact.

F L A M E : The Big Lie (I): Are the "occupied territories" really occupied territories?



> A Brief History: Most of the area now called the Middle East was part of the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire before World War I. Germany lost the war and so did its ally Turkey. The Ottoman Empire ceased to exist and the League of Nations assigned Britain and France as the mandatory powers.
> 
> France assumed mandatory control over what is now Syria and Lebanon. Britain assumed mandatory control over all the rest, including "Palestine," which comprised all that is now Jordan and Israel, including the "West Bank." The Golan Heights, which Syria now claims as its age-old patrimony, was originally part of Palestine.
> 
> ...


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 5, 2010)

Did you forget the Green Line?

You also missed the population numbers in 1948 Mandate Palestine.

About 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews.

One person; one vote?

No Jewish homeland in the heart of Arab oil.


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## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

This was not put to population or popular vote. Why? Because there were no countries in that Partition and as such, no votes were considered necessary. No Democracy was instituted at the time so such a view comes in retrospect and is useless in dealing with the reality that is here today.

Palestinians are no different genetically than any of the other Arabians in Lebanon, Syria or Jordan. Why these ones who are no different than those ones need a homeland on the tiny one and a half percent of land that is Israel in comparison to the 98.85 percent that was Palestine and which was awarded to the Arabians.

They want the one and a half percent that they don't have? The "Right of Return" is an Arabian method to strangle the Democracy of Israel.  It is clear.  Palestine was administered by Great Britain under the Mandate until forty six when Trans Jordan was granted independence. In one fell swoop, sovereignty in eighty percent of Palestine had been awarded to the Arabian. Israel was created by the United Nations by vote. The British Mandate had already been dissolved. The British Mandate CREATED Jordan with almost eighty percent of the land called Palestine. Why was an "A Rub Dynasty" given almost the entirety of the "Palestinian" land? Should it be taken back George? On November forty seven the United Nations recommended that both a Jewish State and an Arabian (not Palestinian) State be created in the remainder of the Mandated territory west of the Jordan River, and that Jerusalem be internationalized. Even though this was dramatically favorable to the A Rub, the Joe accepted the proposal. The A Rub rejected it as they wanted it all.





georgephillip said:


> You also missed the population numbers in 1948 Mandate Palestine.
> 
> About 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

The Palestinians are an itinerant people who had the chance for a country over sixty years ago at the same time my people were offered a country. The foolish Arabians thought they could delete all of the country and the people. They found just the opposite and for sixty years they have been no better than beggars. Their children's, children's children have grown up to extremist ideology and begging. They have gained nothing and lost many lives. They will continue in this vein until the next great globally encompassing war at which time Iran, Hamas AND Hezbollah will be dealt with. The world will be far too concerned with defeating terror (of which Hamas as a proxy of Iran IS KNOWN to be a functioning terror organization by the rest of the free and civilized world. Yes, the foolish, childlike Palestinians will never give up a chance to give up a chance for peace. I have personally given up on these people ever finding a peace since they can not even stop killing each other. Pitiful!


----------



## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

> No Jewish homeland in the heart of Arab oil.



There's no heart of Arabian oil in Israel, Syria, Jordan, Egypt or Lebanon.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Did you forget the Green Line?
> 
> You also missed the population numbers in 1948 Mandate Palestine.
> 
> ...



The Arabs owned virtually no land in the Ottoman Empire, under Turkish sovereignty, and had no vote.

Sovereignty over Judea was transferred after WW I from the Ottoman Turks to the Jews via the Treaty of Sevres and the San Remo Resolution.

Jews had no vote when 99.9% of the Ottoman Empire was given to the Arabs.

No wonder you have zero reputational points.


----------



## hipeter924 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ropey said:


> The Palestinians are an itinerant people who had the chance for a country over sixty years ago at the same time my people were offered a country. The foolish Arabians thought they could delete all of the country and the people. They found just the opposite and for sixty years they have been no better than beggars. Their children's, children's children have grown up to extremist ideology and begging. They have gained nothing and lost many lives. They will continue in this vein until the next great globally encompassing war at which time Iran, Hamas AND Hezbollah will be dealt with. The world will be far too concerned with defeating terror (of which Hamas as a proxy of Iran IS KNOWN to be a functioning terror organization by the rest of the free and civilized world. Yes, the foolish, childlike Palestinians will never give up a chance to give up a chance for peace. I have personally given up on these people ever finding a peace since they can not even stop killing each other. Pitiful!


They can't change because they are brainwashed, and yes the Palestinians should be pitied, their Imams tell they day after day the Jews are source of all their problems, and call on them to kill the Jews. The leaders of Hamas or Fatah are not interested in creating a state, that is just a cover story, they are nothing more than religious fanatics who would fight to the last Palestinian.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OJ2XdUA2bI&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

hipeter924 said:


> They can't change because they are brainwashed, and yes the Palestinians should be pitied, their Imams tell they day after day the Jews are source of all their problems, and call on them to kill the Jews. The leaders of Hamas or Fatah are not interested in creating a state, that is just a cover story, they are nothing more than religious fanatics who would fight to the last Palestinian.



Palestinian Statehood has been hijacked by the Arabian States who wanted to see another Arabian State there and not a Jewish state. They told the Arabians to leave Israel and that they would "Push Them Into The Sea" at which time the Arabians who left could come back to reclaim their land. When the fight was initiated by the Arabians, the Jews moved the rest of them out as they fought back and  moved forwards, taking land to buffer, which is the right of any attacked country. To this day, a great majority of the Arabians and Iranian, Turks, etc. wish this. The Saudi refuse to even shake hands with Israel people. This is not uncommon in the Arabian world and so peace must be regional. The issue is NOT Palestinian Statehood, although that is negotiable. The issue is that Arabian countries need to move onward and create a peace with an economic block. Rather than run and fight, they can enter the arena of a large middle eastern block. Certainly my people can help these ones with their money. They can not seem to help but steal it or spend it foolishly in Dubai and Las Vegas.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ropey said:


> hipeter924 said:
> 
> 
> > They can't change because they are brainwashed, and yes the Palestinians should be pitied, their Imams tell they day after day the Jews are source of all their problems, and call on them to kill the Jews. The leaders of Hamas or Fatah are not interested in creating a state, that is just a cover story, they are nothing more than religious fanatics who would fight to the last Palestinian.
> ...



So-called Palestinians have demonstrated zero ability to assume the responsibilities of statehood.  They had their first-ever chance in history in Gaza when Israel withdrew, but, as Thomas Friedman has remarked, the Pallies had an opportunity to make their Singapore but instead have made their Somalia.  And, Friedman is pro-Pallie


----------



## Ropey (Dec 5, 2010)

Indeed Marc and I extend this to say that this is not about race. It is about indoctrination. The Palestinians refuse to see the reality of truth with regards to the Sovereign State of Israel. They do this because they wish it not to be so, and they desire to "make it not so". This comes from their indoctrination from the cradle and for generations. Sadly, they continue to gain NOTHING.  Sixty years of nothing when they could have had a sixty year old sovereign country with the entire ownership of Jerusalem. They said no because they wanted it all. Now they have even less but they, as unrealistic children still want it all. They can not see the reality of a sovereign state and one that is accepted by the entire civilized world. The United States, Russia, China, America, France, Britain, Italy, etc. etc. etc. etc.  Such thinking as theirs will continue to reap that which they sow. 

This has never been about a homeland for the Arabians. They already have twenty two homelands. The Jews have only one, and will fight to the death for this land. They truly have no where else to go.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 5, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Indeed Marc and I extend this to say that this is not about race. It is about indoctrination. The Palestinians refuse to see the reality of truth with regards to the Sovereign State of Israel. They do this because they wish it not to be so, and they desire to "make it not so". This comes from their indoctrination from the cradle and for generations. Sadly, they continue to gain NOTHING.  Sixty years of nothing when they could have had a sixty year old sovereign country with the entire ownership of Jerusalem. They said no because they wanted it all. Now they have even less but they, as unrealistic children still want it all. They can not see the reality of a sovereign state and one that is accepted by the entire civilized world. The United States, Russia, China, America, France, Britain, Italy, etc. etc. etc. etc.  Such thinking as theirs will continue to reap that which they sow.
> 
> This has never been about a homeland for the Arabians. They already have twenty two homelands. The Jews have only one, and will fight to the death for this land. They truly have no where else to go.



Well stated.  Muslims have no legitimate connection with Jerusalem.   The fake prophet Muhammad claimed to have flown to Jerusalem on his winged donkey al-Buraq that was so ridiculous even his own people in Mecca laughed him out of town.

In fact, the original 1964 PO Charter specifically disavows all claims to the so-called West Bank [including Jerusalem] and Gaza.

"Palestine" has never been of interest to Muslims.  During 400 years of Ottoman rule, the area of "Palestine" was merely southern Syria.  Arabs identified as Arabs or Muslims or Syrians.

Muslims want the land under Israel as part of the Islamic master plan to reestablish an Islamic caliphate devoid of a Jewish state.


----------



## mdn2000 (Dec 5, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Did you forget the Green Line?
> 
> You also missed the population numbers in 1948 Mandate Palestine.
> 
> ...



Your source, wikipedia is wrong. 

It is a fact that Armenians are also part of the population as well as European Christians. Not even a mention of Greeks, hell I post a quote from Napoleon in 1799 stating the number of Greeks in Jaffa.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 6, 2010)

> "Today, thousands of Muslims and Christians under Israeli occupation are prevented from worshiping in their holiest churches and mosques."



Interestingly enough, you seem to leave out the part that there are 55 Muslim countries in the world which consider themselves MUSLIM countries and treat their women, and non-Muslims as second class citizens. I find it amazing that you do not recognize the fact that the Palestinians, as you call them on the West Bank, are not citizens of Israel and like every other country in the world, are not privileged to the same rights as are a country's citizens. The Gaza Strip has been turned back to the people as Israel left it completely in 2005. Israel is under no obligation to allow a group of people who call for its destruction to use any part of Israel as a land route. Israel is not obligated under international law or any law for that matter to let a single Gazan step foot on Israeli soil. Almost every country in the world controls its borders, and Israel is no different. Israel is under no obligation to live up a higher standard than any other country in the world. The Palestinians want equality? Let them ask for peace and build a second Palestinian homeland run by Palestinians. The fact is that the Palestinians don't have a single person capable of creating and running and independent country. If you can name anyone who is up to the job, please name him or her. They can't stop killing each other and the mark of a beginning of humanistic civility is when people stop killing their own in power grabs. 

Please also compare Israel and religious freedoms with 'any' of the Muslim countries, including Indonesia.  To post that drivel regarding the freedom to believe as they choose in Israel? Then to attack Israel as a suppressor of religious freedoms, when there is no Muslim country with anything half way close to the freedoms of Israel is the complete and utter proof of your concrete one sided thinking and analogous to insanity.  Even the Arabians who are negotiating with the Jews don't believe such tripe. Any bit of research will tell the truth.  Yes, Israel has some fanatics, the more so for all the attacks the Arabians have promulgated from Israel's birth (Push them into the Sea) to the Hamas's Khartoum Accord Dictates (The Three No's.). All state their wish for the destruction of Israel.  It is clear enough to me and you can be certain that any discussion of peace with twenty thousand Hezbollah on Israel's south borders is just not going to happen. We know the weapons you have against us and we know your targeting on the American bases in Afghanistan and Iraq as well as Saudi and Egypt. Yes, we know and it is certainly taken into account by a knowledgeable West. 

Whilst you apologists continue this brinkmanship game, you continue to bring about massive deaths in the middle east. If you had any idea of what Israel has in its defensive weaponry and IF you truly cared about lives in the ME, you would see that negotiation is the way to go and Arabian demanded intermediaries in the negotiating process is unworkable and be certain that the dynamics of negotiations will change if a war comes about.  Be certain of that.

Israel has some of the worlds prized nuclear physicists,  chemical engineers, etc. If this war comes, there will be a lot of mopping up for the US. They will create a far stronger hegemony when this is over. 

This upcoming war never was about the Palestinians. They are no more than flotsam and jetsam in the bigger game called the middle eastern hegemony. Iraq attempted to break it. The terrorists attempted to break it and now Iran attempts to break it.  Some think they will win. I do not.


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## Marc39 (Dec 6, 2010)

Ropey said:


> > "Today, thousands of Muslims and Christians under Israeli occupation are prevented from worshiping in their holiest churches and mosques."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well stated.

Your insightful thoughts echoed by prominent Israeli Arab Muslim journalist Khaled Abu Toameh...

*The Pro Palestinian's Real Agenda*


> The so-called pro-Palestinian &#8220;junta&#8221; on the campuses has nothing to offer other than hatred and de-legitimization of Israel. If these folks really cared about the Palestinians, they would be campaigning for good government and for the promotion of values of democracy and freedom in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
> 
> Their hatred for Israel and what it stands for has blinded them to a point where they no longer care about the real interests of the Palestinians, namely the need to end the anarchy and lawlessness, and to dismantle all the armed gangs that are responsible for the death of hundreds of innocent Palestinians over the past few years.
> 
> ...


On Campus: The Pro-Palestinian's Real Agenda

*Khaled Abu Toameh: Arabs And Muslims Run To Israel*


> Many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have a dream: to work or live in Israel. Some even say they are prepared to pay large sums of money to obtain Israeli citizenship.  Others pay a lot of money to Palestinian and Jewish traffickers who help them bypass checkpoints to enter Israel in search of work and good life.  These are not self-hating Palestinians. Nor are they "pro-Israel traitors" who support the Zionist movement. Many Palestinians feel that neither Fatah nor Hamas has done enough to alleviate their suffering. Many Fatah leaders who stole billions of dollars of international donations earmarked for the Palestinians have invested their fortunes in hotels, tourist resorts and real estate firms in the West. Hamas, on the other hand, prefers to spend millions of dollars on purchasing [and smuggling] large amounts of weapons, including rockets and ammunition.
> 
> It is a disgrace for Arab and Muslim dictators, particularly those who make billions of dollars from selling oil, that their constituents have to seek work and refuge in Israel and the West. It is also a disgrace for Fatah and Hamas that thousands of Palestinians cannot find jobs or a good life in the two Palestinian states in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  Arab and Islamic regimes are spending billions of dollars on building new mosques and madrasas while nearly half of their people are illiterate and live under the poverty line. University graduates in these countries are forced to search for work in the West because of poor working conditions and lack of opportunities.  The absence of good government, transparency, accountability and democracy in these countries is driving Arabs and Muslims to seek work and a better life not only in North America and Europe, but even in places like Israel.  In many ways, these Palestinians are not different from the African immigrants who try to infiltrate Israel every day through Egypt. The immigrants come from Sudan, Ethiopia, Eretria, Nigeria and other African countries.
> 
> ...


The Iconoclast - New English Review

Khaled Abu Toameh...


> Most Arabs in Jerusalem prefer to live under Israeli rule for a number of reasons. First, because as holders of Israeli ID cards they are entitled to many rights and privileges that Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip don't enjoy. They include freedom of movement and social, economic, health and education services that Israeli citizens are entitled to.
> 
> Redividing Jerusalem means bringing either the Palestinian Authority of Hamas into the city. The Arab residents of Jerusalem have seen what happened in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the past 16 years and are not keen to live under a corrupt authority or a radical Islamist entity.
> 
> Over the past few years, many Arab residents of the city who used to live in the West Bank have abandoned their homes and returned to Jerusalem. They did so mainly out of fear of losing their rights and privileges as holders of Israeli ID cards.  But many of them also ran away from the West Bank because they did not want to live in territories controlled by militiamen, armed gangs and corrupt leaders and institutions.


Yahoo! Groups

Khaled Abu Toameh...


> Arabs living in Israel have always enjoyed free and unlimited access to medical services. Israeli hospitals have always been full of Arab patients, who often heap praise on doctors and nurses for offering them the best treatment.
> 
> Even Arabs from neighboring countries have been seeking medical treatment in Israeli hospitals.  Many Arabs in Jerusalem are extremely grateful to the Israeli medical teams for their services. Hundreds, if not thousands, of Arabs can testify how these paramedics and doctors saved their lives.
> 
> Just two weeks ago, a 65-year-old Arab woman in Jerusalem who suffered a heart attack talked about how the Magen David medical team that rushed to her home had literally saved her life.  Magen David paramedics should be commended for the great work they are doing to offer the best medical treatment to patients -- regardless of their nationality and religion. They should be commended for endangering their lives to enter Arab villages and neighborhoods to save lives.


 Why do PalArabs attack ambulances? (Khaled Abu Toameh) : South Capitol Street


----------



## Ropey (Dec 6, 2010)

It's much the same when these people interchange Israel, with the Israeli government, then extended to Israeli people and finally with worldwide Jewry.  This clearly shows that such commentary on Israel at any particular time is indistinguishable from some grand ethnic or race statement about "Jews". 

For me, and (I believe) most intelligent people, there is, of course, a clear distinction between the two themes. There is also a distinction between Israel and any particular Israeli government. And that is why strongly resisting the arguments and actions of any one Israeli government is not about Israel as such or "Jews" or "the Jews." They interchange these two themes so casually in order to keep the anti Semitic card fully on the table, interchanging a chilling criticism of Israel as if it were indistinguishable from their racial bigotry. This rhetorical game really shows their racial hatred rather, than strengthen any views of theirs regarding Israel. 

As such, Israel is simply a platform to further their race hatred of Jews as they did before there was an Israel. The transition is transparently clear.



Marc39 said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > > "Today, thousands of Muslims and Christians under Israeli occupation are prevented from worshiping in their holiest churches and mosques."
> ...


----------



## Ropey (Dec 6, 2010)

PoliticalChic said:


> I'm sick of pathology being defined as theology.



You are a master of summation.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 6, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Did you forget the Green Line?
> ...


Only Jewish land owners get a vote in your "Democracy"?


----------



## Ropey (Dec 6, 2010)

The land is a territory. A partition.  No more and as such you are looking for a Democratic Governorship? To do what? Look for a Democratic vote? 

Look at the creation of any state or country. See if there was a Democratic process in order to create the country.

Democracy is very young and does not seem to bloom in non governed arenas, wouldn't you say?

So, what are you looking for? A Majority Vote? In a partition with no ruling or governing? Sorry, that's not how the world worked in forty eight. 

It doesn't work that way yet.  A nice ideal, but until the world falls under the umbrella of Democracy, do not expect it to spring up and bloom in non governed areas. 

That's simply naive.



georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 6, 2010)

Was it naive of the 1.35 million non-Jew residents of Mandate Palestine to worry about a Jewish state in a part of the world overwhelmingly Arab?

Have their fears materialized?


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## Marc39 (Dec 6, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Was it naive of the 1.35 million non-Jew residents of Mandate Palestine to worry about a Jewish state in a part of the world overwhelmingly Arab?
> 
> Have their fears materialized?


----------



## Ropey (Dec 6, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Was it naive of the 1.35 million non-Jew residents of Mandate Palestine to worry about a Jewish state in a part of the world overwhelmingly Arab?
> 
> Have their fears materialized?



Fears? What fears do the Arabians have? Dissolution? With so many Arabian countries I doubt they have this fear. Attack? Do Egypt and Jordan fear attack from Israel? No, they fear Iran more than Israel and they want absolutely nothing to do with their Arabian brethren who call themselves Palestinians but who are genetically no different than any of the other Arabians. So, what is their fear?

That they don't control one hundred percent of the Arabian peninsula?  Saudi Arabia is eighty percent of the peninsula by itself.

Was it naive for the Jews to think that the Arabians would not use every mean to destroy them? No, they knew this. They had nowhere to go and wanted a country. They have manned the gates with their most fanatic of people and hide their children away from the Arabians continued attack.

What are you looking for in your statement? A dissolution of Israel? Sorry, not going to happen.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 6, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Was it naive of the 1.35 million non-Jew residents of Mandate Palestine to worry about a Jewish state in a part of the world overwhelmingly Arab?
> 
> Have their fears materialized?



The Jewish state of Israel preceded the Arab world by thousands of  years.

Arabs are interlopers.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 6, 2010)

I note also that these threads are created by those who clearly would like to see the country of Israel deleted, but they use obfuscation to further their desire for this deletion.

You are clearly transparent George and it is ones such as you that continue the fight, and as such are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

There is NO going back to forty eight. Too many Israeli have been born in Israel now and the deed is done, the country born and contributing to the world more in the last sixty years than the Arabian peninsula has done since the modern era.

That's the truth of the matter. Arabians look at their countries and then they look at Israel and hate what they have done for it shows their lack of ability to create anything but a love of death.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 6, 2010)

Ropey said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Was it naive of the 1.35 million non-Jew residents of Mandate Palestine to worry about a Jewish state in a part of the world overwhelmingly Arab?
> ...


So said many White South Africans.

The Jewish State of Israel is swirling the same drain.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 6, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



*8 out of 10 Israeli Arabs would rather live in Israel than any other country in the world.*
Center for Public Leadership - Coexistence


*I am an Israeli Arab and I support Israel.  
Why?  Because, I can express myself freely.  I'm a free man living in a free country.  With my family situation, if I was living in an Arab country, I will be killed long time ago.  With my mind and my way of living and my way of thinking, I'm surely already have been killed long time ago.

Why?  Because, I love freedom.  I adore liberty.  And, in Israel, simply, you can express that.  Can you imagine if you were a Jewish man living in an Arab country and Parliament member and trying to curse your country, they will kill you straight away.  Look what Israel is doing with Arabs in Parliament, they listen, it's a democracy, no problem.  They [Arabs] are shouting freely against Israel in the Parliament.  This is the truth.* [/B]I'm proud to be  an Arab living in Israel.  I know Arabs they will hate me and kill me, but I don't care.  I care about the truth.  The truth is there is no much problems with Arabs in Israel.   Poor people in Israel if they want to study in the university and clever, they can apply to the university and if they are really wise they can go study free.  And, they don't have to pay even if they are an Arab.  Israel gives you an opportunity to learn free.

There are very good things in Israel.  Health security, in Israel if you are Arab and have any medical problem, you can be fixed for free,  You don't pay a penny.  They give you life security, no problem.  You can work like everyone and you get your pension.  Everyone in Israel have a pension.  Arabs and Jewish they get the same.   Arab doctor and Jewish doctor, they get the same salary.  Arab teacher and Jewish teacher, they get the same salary.  

Arab student and Jewish student they get the same education.  It's the same.  The dreams of life, quite the same.  If you are good citizen, you have no problems.  You can live free.  You can go wherever you like.  You can choose, you can get inside any group you want.

Honestly, I served in the Israeli army.  What is the problem?  You want to tell me Arabs don't kill each other?  Look in Iraq, they are brothers living in the same neighborhood and they are killing each other.  I'm living here, my family is here, everyone I care about is here--my wife, my daughters is here.  This is the truth: I'm proud being an Arab living in Israel.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbrIWyEhl8A[/ame]


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## Ropey (Dec 6, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> So said many White South Africans.
> 
> The Jewish State of Israel is swirling the same drain.



Why don't you broaden your stroke George. Look at every country in the Middle East. What do you see?  Apartheid or ethnicity? Are ethnic countries apartheid? Even when the opposing forces are attempting to use inclusion as a method to dissolve Israel?

Were the blacks in South Africa worried about ethnic dissolution? Were the whites attempting to dissolve them? 

Now, look at South Africa today. Lovely country? Safe for the blacks? Why are there so many more black on black deaths in South Africa today? Why is the crime rate so high?

Apartheid?  

Israel is an ethnic country with Christians and Muslims and is working to maintain their ethnicity. 

That's what you call Apartheid? 

You use emotive words to attempt to obfuscate and mislead others.


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## georgephillip (Dec 7, 2010)

I see Israel as a budding ethnocracy that's currently annexing valuable land and water rights it has no legal right to under international law.

Exibit A would be Israel's Apartheid Wall:

"The Separation Wall that the Israeli government is said to be building for security reasons stands at 8 meters (25feet) high.

"This wall will approximately affect 90,700 Palestinian residents of 32 villages in the Qalqilya area and will isolate and thus effectively confiscate 47,020 dunums of land (11,755 acres) and will destroy another 7,750 dunums (1,937 acres). 

"Six of the villages, with approximately 1,000 residents, will be completely trapped between the Wall and the 1967 Green Line; isolating them from the West Bank and *effectively annexing them to Israel without being granted citizenship or legal rights*. 

"Land, which is the base of the economic lifeline of this area, is being taken away as it&#8217;s people watch helplessly." 

Do you agree the struggle in Palestine is over land?

The Psychological...


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> I see Israel as a budding ethnocracy that's currently annexing valuable land and water rights it has no legal right to under international law.
> 
> Exibit A would be Israel's Apartheid Wall:
> 
> "The Separation Wall that the Israeli government is said to be building for security reasons stands at 8 meters (25feet) high.



Pallies are not Israeli citizens.  Thus, apartheid doesn't apply. 

Clearly, you don't even know what apartheid even is.  No wonder you have zero reputational points.  

Israel is the only country in the apartheid Arab Muslim Middle East in which al citizens are constitutionally guaranteed equal rights.

The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life and human development, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria 

http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/


> Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means &#8212;if a very important one &#8212;of enlarging people&#8217;s choices.
> 
> Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities &#8212;the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible.


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Do you agree the struggle in Palestine is over land?



The fight is over Jews being on the land and in control of it and in control of "true believers" living there! The Jew can stay as second class citizens in a greater Arabian "Israel" which would be called Palestine. 

That's their (and your) fight. The fight you look for is coming. It will not be pretty for anyone and I certainly wish it did not come but your side is clearly intractable.

There is no difference between the Arabians of Gaza and the West Bank or any other Arabian in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan.

The fight has never been about land. The Arabians have made it clear. You know this.


			
				Hamas Principles said:
			
		

> "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."


Clicky

Israel is land. Islam is not. It is not about land. It is about non Islam in control of land that is in the Arabian Peninsula. It is about Jews being in control of Arabians in Israel.

Not land. And you know this, but you attempt to put it into terms of material manufacture.

Sorry, that doesn't fly with reality. Israel is here to stay.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

> Quote: Originally Posted by georgephillip
> Do you agree the struggle in Palestine is over land?



Earth to clueless George: Muslims already control 99.9% of the Middle East.

The "struggle" is over Islamic intolerance of Jews and all other kafirs [non-Muslims]

This is well-documented in the Islamic literature.
To wit...

Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4366: 


> It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard* the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim. *



Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:177...


> The Day of Judgment will not have come until you fight with the Jews, and the stones and the trees behind which a Jew will be hiding will say: *'O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him*!




Now, even you know


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Now, even you know



I put forward that he already knows. It just not fit in with his personal side. He's on one end of a divide. 

There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel. Both sides of fanatics are winning at the moment. The difference is that his side's leaders are those selfsame fanatics and the Democracy that is Israel still is able to marginalize our fanatics. 

But don't kid yourself Marc. He knows or he would not have referenced it towards land.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Now, even you know
> ...



You give credit for intelligence where is is not due.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel.



A "greater Israel"?  You mean, like the 51 member-states of the League of Nations that established the Jewish homeland in the greater Israel, including Jordan?

Seems the Muslims have the greater Middle East.  Like, 99.9% of the Middle East.  And, north Africa, too.


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Not at all Marc. He couches the divide in terms of land. There is only one reason to couch the attack in terms of land rather than complete surrender to Islamic superiority.

That's why it is called a Fascist ideology. It's not hidden. Neither was Hitler's ideology of superiority.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



He's a most unfortunate combination of mental illness, ignorance and alcoholism.  Don't waste oxygen trying, in vain, to reason with him.   Just demolish him, as I do.


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

It's not about right or wrong really. It's about reality, and what comes from keeping ones self in reality.

Right or wrong is applied to a morality. I don't want to go there, as then it becomes groups of old people holding books up and frothing at the mouth at what others should or should not be doing. I believe that should in reality is what is, no more. Morals and ethics change with belief systems, reality remains.

I believe:

Israel is here. Therefore it should be. Others can extend a belief of protection by otherworldly powers.  I will not fall there. Logic has a great partnership with reality. Because then true discussion can start. 

Governing morality is tied to ethics and from that is birthed a doctrine which extends to control in its many forms, of which Islam is (I believe) one of complete and utter subjugation.

If one completely and utterly submits (there is NO other word in Islam for the subjugation) to Islam then you can live peacefully within Islam. Jews or anyone else. It's not about race. It's not about land. Ideology never is although one can see the conquest for religious subjugation in some of its forms as it extends over land, but the land is not the reason for the conquest. It is subjugation in the form of submission.

I'd rather Israel remain a Democracy. One thing is for certain. If Israel is attacked, it will be the nexus of a great war in the middle east. Fanatics are fine with that as they see any amount of death a win, if the outcome is Israel's end. I'd rather not see any fight come, but I know...


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## georgephillip (Dec 7, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel.
> ...


Do you look forward to the Land of Israel extending from the Nile to the Euphrates?


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



Muzzies already conquered that land.  Allah is an imperialist who steals others' lands.


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## georgephillip (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...


Am I couching the divide in terms of land when I point out only one side in this conflict is appropriating the land and demolishing the homes of the other?

I've no illusions at all about subjugation's role in all authoritarian systems, including Islam, Judaism and Christianity. All three "great" religions stem from a bronze-age desert psychopath who endorsed chattel slavery, child abuse, and genocide.

As I see it, your side isn't seeing the corporate authoritarians in New York and London who profit from the conflict in the Holy Land.

Or, in Marc's case, personally engaged in shilling for the corporations who profit from other people's misery.


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## georgephillip (Dec 7, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...


As was Moses.
George Washington
Andy Jackson
Yitzshak Shamir
Golda
Marc39


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Israel is appropriating 0.1% of the Middle East, while Muslims control 99.9% of the landmass?

Israel is not very good at appropriating, eh?

Israel existed over 3,000 years ago, thousands of years before the Muhammadan, and Jews have lived continually in the Holy Land for 4,000 years.

You're drinking, again.  Hiccup.


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## Kalam (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> If one completely and utterly submits (there is NO other word in Islam for the subjugation) to Islam then you can live peacefully within Islam. Jews or anyone else. It's not about race. It's not about land. Ideology never is although one can see the conquest for religious subjugation in some of its forms as it extends over land, but the land is not the reason for the conquest. It is subjugation in the form of submission.



Not quite correct. Submission, _Islam_, to the will of Allah ta'ala is what is required of Muslims. Submission is not required of the people of the dhimma living under an Islamic system, who are merely subdued (_saghiroon_) from exercising authority over the Muslims but are otherwise generally allowed to live according to their own legal systems. The nature of the dhimma and those who are under it is best explained by Hizb ut-Tahrir in this article:

DHIMMI - Non-Muslims living in the Khilafah


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



No.  But you only ask questions. You don't seem to answer them, and you pull statements out of context to ask your own questions.

Do you consider that civil George?


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## Kalam (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> A rose by any other name...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll take this as an affirmation of what I said.


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

A rose by any other name...

This is why I said Subjugation by Submission.



Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > If one completely and utterly submits (there is NO other word in Islam for the subjugation) to Islam then you can live peacefully within Islam. Jews or anyone else. It's not about race. It's not about land. Ideology never is although one can see the conquest for religious subjugation in some of its forms as it extends over land, but the land is not the reason for the conquest. It is subjugation in the form of submission.
> ...


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

Of course you can. You should know the intricacies better than I, but that does not change the fact that it is still a rose. 



Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > A rose by any other name...
> ...


----------



## Kalam (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> A rose by any other name...
> 
> This is why I said Subjugation by Submission.
> 
> ...



...an inaccurate description that fails to distinguish between living according to a system and merely acknowledging its ascendancy without actually having to abide by its tenets.


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## Jroc (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel. Both sides of fanatics are winning at the moment. The difference is that his side's leaders are those selfsame fanatics and the Democracy that is Israel still is able to marginalize our fanatics.
> 
> .



I must be a fanatic then because to me Jordan is the so-called "Palestinian" state. Judea and Samaria should be annexed and with all the money being wasted on the "Palestinians" they could be relocated to Jordan.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > If one completely and utterly submits (there is NO other word in Islam for the subjugation) to Islam then you can live peacefully within Islam. Jews or anyone else. It's not about race. It's not about land. Ideology never is although one can see the conquest for religious subjugation in some of its forms as it extends over land, but the land is not the reason for the conquest. It is subjugation in the form of submission.
> ...



Lying, again, Abu?  Good Muzzie.


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> ...an inaccurate description that fails to distinguish between living according to a system and merely acknowledging its ascendancy without actually having to abide by its tenets.



Tell that to the Christians in Iraq.

Google Churches burned by Muslims in Muslim countries. Then Google Synagogues burned by Muslims in Muslim countries.

Then repeat your statement.


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## Kalam (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > ...an inaccurate description that fails to distinguish between living according to a system and merely acknowledging its ascendancy without actually having to abide by its tenets.
> ...



I would if they lived under a Shari'i system. Unfortunately, a nominal caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and a proper caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Rashidun.


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Well, there are a few vying for that Caliphate at the moment. 

I still choose Democracy.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



But, the ultimate objective of the fraudulent cult of Islam is the reestablishment of a caliiphate.

Except, Muzzies are so incompetent, they can't even run one country, no less a caliiphate.

Sheikh Maulana Maududi...


> Islam wishes to destroy all states and governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam regardless of the country or the nation which rules it. The purpose of Islam is to set up a state on the basis of its own ideology and program &#8230; the objective of Islamic jihad is to eliminate the rule of an un-Islamic system and establish instead an Islamic system of state rule. Islam does not intend to confine this revolution to a single state or a few countries; the aim of Islam is to bring about a universal revolution.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> I would if they lived under a Shari'i system. Unfortunately, a nominal caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Ottoman Empire and a proper caliphate hasn't existed since the fall of the Rashidun.



That was the Ottoman Empire that denied Palestinians a homeland for 400 years.

Allah couldn't make that happen, Abu?  I thought allah even invented the internet?


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## Kalam (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...


Ma sha' Allah.



Ropey said:


> I still choose Democracy.


And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. Israel is, unfortunately. 

Either way, Jews under a caliphate can elect and serve as representatives in the Majlis al-Ummah and the regional assemblies like everyone else.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. Israel is, unfortunately.



Israel existed at least 2,000 years before your pedophile Mahomet was even wearing diapers, Abu.

The Muhammadan trash invaded the Holy Land and the entire Middle East from Arabia, where Jews and Christians lived for thousands of years prior to the dreadful curse of Islam was even concocted by your child molesting false prophet

And, the pedophile Mahomet stole Judaism, its scripture, prophets and patriarchs for the false religion of Islam

Winston Churchill...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...



[ame]http://www.amazon.com/River-War-Sir-Winston-Churchill/dp/1598184253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288411221&sr=8-1[/ame]


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. Israel is, unfortunately.



And this is why I see much death in the middle east. There is no give and take with Islam.  Sooner or later it's the borders that Muslims are attempting to extend at the moment. Then it is the borders of other countries where the silent sedition is attempting a beach head. 

Thank you for your honesty at the very least. For your words extend just as Islam extends its reach. A global reach that demands a global response


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Shariah law is not kind to the dhimmi, Abu...



> *NON·MUSLIM SUBJECTS OF THE
> ISLAMIC STATE (AHL AL-DHIMMA)*
> 
> *THE NON-MUSLIM POLL TAX
> ...


http://www.onlineislamicstore.com/b2439.html


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## Kalam (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. Israel is, unfortunately.
> ...



The goal of Hizb ut-Tahrir is to establish the caliphate in the Muslim world. As far as I'm aware, the only "expansion" into non-Muslim countries this entails is taking the North Caucasus from Russia --  which is undoubtedly a legitimate and righteous struggle -- East Turkestan from China, and Kashmir from India. In all of these cases, Muslims are oppressed and resistance movements have already been active for years.


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ma sha' Allah



I agree that this is not in our hands. However, I must ask you this. There are three books of which the Torah is the oldest. Then came Christianity and then Islam. All three books have an end of days (not the world, but end of an age). They all differ in the endings. 

You have a one in three chance, and with Nejad attempting to 'hasten' the twelfth, do you truly like those odds?

I would rather see peace with Israel and the Muslim world, but if that means submission (if you will) then there is only one outcome.

And yes, it could have been that way all along. But it's still a one in three chance. 

So what came immediately before Judaism? The Bible itself tells us that the northern Hebrew kingdom of Israel was at all times polytheistic, and that the southern kingdom, Judah, was polytheistic until the late monarchical period, when King Josiah began to impose monotheism as the official religion of Judah. So, Judaism only began to evolve, in the form we know today, during the late monarchical period, the Babylonian Exile and the Persian period that followed. Many of the beliefs that we now find in Judaism were already held by the Persians and only found their way into Judaism during the Babylonian Exile and the early Persian period, causing some scholars to suggest that Judaism absorbed these beliefs from Zoroastrianism.

So, there was a long period when animism prevailed, followed by another long period of Hebrew polytheism, then the emergence of monotheistic Judaism, which may have absorbed much from the Zoroastrian religion, then finally Christianity split off from Judaism and then Islam split from Judaism as well. That answer which belief came first.

Do you believe this? 

Or do you believe Islam, in its universal sense, is the precursor to Judaism and Christianity. It is the religion since the universe creation. Islam means submission to God, the Creator as the one and only one God. Accordingly, all God creations were coined on full submission to God. Only mankind were given by God the choice either to be in full submission to God (Islam) or to be polytheist or atheist. Prophets were sent to mankind by God to call for submission to God (to call for Islam). Islam per God revelation of Torah to Moses is called Judaism. Islam per God revelation of the Bible to Jesus is called Christianity. Islam per God revelation of Q'uran to Muhammad is called the very name Islam. Islam is the mission of all prophets since Adam including Noah, ..., Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, ..., Moses, ..., Jesus, and finally Muhammad (Peace be upon them all).

And if not that, what do you believe with regards to the three beliefs?


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



But, Abu, the Muhammadan expanded beyond Arabia into the entire Middle East and north Africa.

Not satisfied, the expansionist Muhammadan conquered Spain in the Middle Ages and Portugal and Italy and other parts of Europe as well as Asia and Africa.

The Ottoman Empire, all stolen by the Muhammadan, spanned 3 continents.

Read, learn, Abu...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests

Abu, you need to open a history book.  Didn't Allah invent Google?


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## Kalam (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Ma sha' Allah
> ...



My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet, and was revealed to every civilization on Earth through subsequent messengers at one time or another. In every case, the word of God was abandoned or changed until Muhammad (SAWS) served the function of the final messenger and revealed Islam as we know it today through the Qur'an and through his own example.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet



But, Abu, Adam lived thousands of years before Mahomet, who concocted Islam, was even born.  Did Mahomet travel back in time even before he was born to convertt Adam to Islam?

Did allah invent time travel, Abu?

See how irrational Islam is, Abu?  

Your fraudulent cult of Islam stole Judaism and its prophets because your pedophile Mahomet was a charlatan.  His own people in Mecca kicked his ass out of town because they knew he was a fraud.

Abu, your posts are very funny.


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet, and was revealed to every civilization on Earth through subsequent messengers at one time or another. In every case, the word of God was abandoned or changed until Muhammad (SAWS) served the function of the final messenger and revealed Islam as we know it today through the Qur'an and through his own example.



Yes, as I had thought. There is only one book to your point of view. All the other books are abandoned but still held. Just as the split of Islam must be decided first. I have heard this all before.

There's only death or semi-submission. (if you will)

But to the highly submitted Muslims, semi-submission is like slavery and you are encroaching. That's why the fight was taken up.  Israel is the  nexus of the flash point.

As I said, I wish there was another way, but sadly I see millions of deaths coming. The Jews have their own end of days scenario and it's not pretty.


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> The goal of Hizb ut-Tahrir is to establish the caliphate in the Muslim world. As far as I'm aware, the only "expansion" into non-Muslim countries this entails is taking the North Caucasus from Russia --  which is undoubtedly a legitimate and righteous struggle -- East Turkestan from China, and Kashmir from India. In all of these cases, Muslims are oppressed and resistance movements have already been active for years.



The Muslim world is expanding. Darfur and many flash points through out the world show the expansion and violence.

This is why Russia is moving towards a new alliance with the West. It is why China will bankroll dissension in Africa until it is time to take it over. 

But as you said, this encroachment that has been off and on for many hundreds of years is back on. You couch the encroachment as legitimate and righteous struggles. 

I've heard this before.  Nothing new here. Nothing enlightening. Sadly, it just shores up my views more to the right.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet, and was revealed to every civilization on Earth through subsequent messengers at one time or another. In every case, the word of God was abandoned or changed until Muhammad (SAWS) served the function of the final messenger and revealed Islam as we know it today through the Qur'an and through his own example.
> ...



The cult of Islam believes that the entire world belongs to allah.  Thus, it is the duty of all Muhammadans to re-claim all lands under the sovereignty of the kafir [non-Muslim] and force the kafir to convert, submit or be killed.

Bukhari V1B2N24...


> Narrated Ibn Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.


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## Kalam (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > My beliefs are more in line with your second description. Islam dates back to Adam (AS), the first prophet, and was revealed to every civilization on Earth through subsequent messengers at one time or another. In every case, the word of God was abandoned or changed until Muhammad (SAWS) served the function of the final messenger and revealed Islam as we know it today through the Qur'an and through his own example.
> ...



Israel takes a back seat to our own governments and, in my mind at least, Chechnya. 

I should also make it clear that I don't speak for anyone but myself -- I do not possess any ijazat or any other sort of of official religious credentials, nor do I occupy any position of authority.


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



You certainly do not speak for allah.  You are clueless, Abu.  Allahu fucku


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## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> QUOTE]
> 
> Israel takes a back seat to our own governments and, in my mind at least, Chechnya.



Israel is a modern democracy, Abu, that embraces freedom, human rights and civil liberties.

The Islamic shitholes are tyrannical, totalitarian dictatorships stuck in the Middle Ages.

Allah is a fascist, Abu


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## Kalam (Dec 7, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > The goal of Hizb ut-Tahrir is to establish the caliphate in the Muslim world. As far as I'm aware, the only "expansion" into non-Muslim countries this entails is taking the North Caucasus from Russia --  which is undoubtedly a legitimate and righteous struggle -- East Turkestan from China, and Kashmir from India. In all of these cases, Muslims are oppressed and resistance movements have already been active for years.
> ...



Both the oppressors and the oppressed in the Darfur situation identify themselves as Muslims -- the struggle there is primarily economic and fueled by tribal and ethnolinguistic differences; it does not have an Islamic character except, perhaps, on the part of the anti-government JEM. The Sudanese government is simply another pseudo-Islamic oppressor that will ultimately be dismantled.

Islam in the North Caucasus predates Russia's rule of the region and all 300-odd years of that rule have been characterized by oppression and brutality on the part of the Russians, including the Tsarists as well as the Soviets and the most recent regime. Atrocities committed by Russia over the past 20 years have been of such an extreme nature that even the West condemned the Russians during the height of the conflict. The only encroachment has been by the Russians.

The PRC is universally acknowledged as highly discriminatory against non-Han Chinese and its oppression of places like East Turkestan and Tibet is of such an obvious nature that there is no need to discuss that conflict at length. Even from a purely secular viewpoint, the righteousness of these struggles is completely evident. Excluding ideological differences, our disagreement seems to start and end with Palestine.


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## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> The cult of Islam believes that the entire world belongs to allah.



But at the time of the book, the entire world was the middle east. They are encroaching due to the interpretation that the entire world means the entire world. Interpretation can be the undoing of a people. So can decisions and choices. 

I believe the Shia make the same mistake with the end of days which is more an end of times rather than an end of days. Some attempt to 'hasten' these times, others are more intent on letting it happen on it's own time.

Since it is resurgent. Since clearly it is resurgent, the response has begun and yes, Muslims are being mistreated in the areas of encroachment. By the time they get enough of a population (or conversion) in the area it is no longer an encroachment. By the time it is no longer an encroachment, it is on the road to subjugation. But the time it is subjugated....

Look at the suicide bombings in Moscow.  That's why we built a wall in Israel.

But as Kalam believes, these are just undoubtedly legitimate and righteous struggles.  

@ Kalam

I never did ascribe anything more than your own personal view Kalam as you did not offer any. 

There's far too many fires around already without me trying to create more powerful ones in discussion. 

But your views are held by most of the of the believers I have met in my political science work as a lecturer. The Sunni are not at all intent on 'hastening' anything at least.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 7, 2010)

Kalam said:


> In every case, the word of God was abandoned or changed until Muhammad (SAWS) served the function of the final messenger and revealed Islam as we know it today through the Qur'an and through his own example.



Allah's standards are not very high, Abu, if he made Mahomet, who was a pedophile, child molester, assassin, caravan hijacker, warmonger and mass murderer, a "messenger"

Abu, how come not one Meccan heard any of Mahomet's "revelations" nor did anyone see the alleged angel Gabriel who transmitted the revelations?

The Meccans asked Mahomet to perform even one miracle to prove he was a prophet, but, the bastard couldn't pull it off.

The Meccans laughed Mahomet out of Mecca, Abu.  The only reason Mahomet converted anyone in Medina afterward was he promised them booty from the caravans they hijacked and all the pussy they could rape.  If they died in jihad, they got the 72 houris in paradise.

Your cult of Islam is a scam, Abu.  Sucker!


----------



## Ropey (Dec 7, 2010)

You make my argument back to me. Arabians performed a conquest of North Africa in ~600CE. They have been using that arena for a long time. Now they want the resources and land and are killing the ones that they subjugated and converted to Islam. Economic reasons? Of course, but be clear, it's not the blacks who are indigent who will see any of this at the rate their tribes are being deleted and Arabian (yes Sunni) tribes are springing up in their places. Arabians are killing their own converted black brethren and taking the land.

We can't stop them now, because they came over too long ago and they have so many of their own born there now.

Hmmm..

Like Israel?

You make my point back to me. Thank you.



Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...


----------



## Ropey (Dec 8, 2010)

> Excluding ideological differences, our disagreement seems to start and end with Palestine.



Not so. You said Israel was the problem and you are correct. With Islam, the problem is a non subjugated country in their midst. So, with that extension of yours, even a peace with the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians would not be a true peace. It would be a Hudna until you could complete your aim of subjugation. 

It's not Palestine that is at the heart of your issue. You stated it quite clearly.



Kalam said:


> And you're free to do so provided you aren't in the Muslim world. *Israel is, unfortunately*.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

> Quote: Originally Posted by Kalam
> Both the oppressors and the oppressed in the Darfur situation identify themselves as Muslims



But, Abu, you forget about the 4 million Christians slaughtered in southern Sudan by the Muhammadan?

What's a few million deaths of the Christian kafir, eh, scumbag of allah?

Islam is a dreadful curse.

Alexis de Toqueville...


> I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.



Winston Churchill...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...



[ame=http://www.amazon.com/River-War-Sir-Winston-Churchill/dp/1598184253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288411221&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The River War (9781598184259): Sir Winston S. Churchill: Books[/ame]


----------



## Kalam (Dec 8, 2010)

Ropey said:


> You make my argument back to me.


Not at all.



Ropey said:


> Arabians performed a conquest of North Africa in ~600CE. They have been using that arena for a long time. Now they want the resources and land and are killing the ones that they subjugated and converted to Islam. Economic reasons? Of course, but be clear, it's not the blacks who are indigent who will see any of this at the rate their tribes are being deleted and Arabian (yes Sunni) tribes are springing up in their places.
> 
> Arabians are killing their own converted black brethren and taking the land. We can't stop them now, because they came over too long ago and they have so many of their own born there now.
> 
> ...



You're focusing exclusively on the ethnic components of two separate conflicts and attempting to ascribe some significance to the fact that Arabs are involved in both. This means nothing to me as a non-Arab who supports the black JEM and your post here doesn't echo anything I've said; it contradicts it. 

You're also implicitly conflating Arabs with the Islamic religion by conflating Arab Sudanese encroachment with Islamic "encroachment", downplaying the fact that both parties in the conflict are Muslim peoples. Islam is not an Arab religion and there were black Muslims in positions of importance before most Arabs had converted. Israel is another issue entirely that I won't discuss in detail unless you'd like to do so.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

> Quote: Originally Posted by Kalam
> disagreement seems to start and end with Palestine.



Except, Muslims never even acknowledged Palestine, skunk of Allah.

Islamic scholar Bernard Lewis...


> After the Ottoman conquest in 1516-17...Palestine was no longer used by Muslims, for whom it had never meant more than an administrative sub-district, and it had been forgotten even in that limited sense.  In the final phase of this rule before the British conquest, Palestine was part of Beirut.   The Palestine entity, formally established and defined by Britain, was formaly abolished in 1948 with the termination of the Mandate.






> For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [Syria].  For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point






> The Palestinian Arabs' basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or -- for some -- Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after 30 years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine.



[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Middle-East-Bernard-Lewis/dp/0684832801/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1288529772&sr=8-5]Amazon.com: The Middle East (9780684832807): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]


Got any other bullshit for us, Abu?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > You make my argument back to me.
> ...



Islam is an Arab religion, Abu.  99% of Arabs are Muslim.   The pedophile Mahomet was an Arab.  The Quran is written in Arabic

The history of Arabs is directly linked with the advent of Islam.

Abu, you really are clueless.


----------



## Kalam (Dec 8, 2010)

Ropey said:


> > Excluding ideological differences, our disagreement seems to start and end with Palestine.
> 
> 
> 
> Not so. You said Israel was the problem and you are correct. With Islam, the problem is a non subjugated country in their midst. So, with that extension of yours, even a peace with the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians would not be a true peace. It would be a Hudna until you could complete your aim of subjugation.



Conflicts don't play out according to my desires. Many or Most of the Arabs you're fighting are genuine proponents of "solutions" that allow for the continuation of Zionist rule, including (as of 2009) the leadership of Hamas in spite of their charter. It could very well be that you all arrive at some sort of solution involving two separate political entities, and this state of affairs may prevail until some point in the very distant future. We were given no specific indication of when just rule would prevail again; we were only told that it would. As we both know, it's ultimately not in any of our hands.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > You make my argument back to me.
> ...



Abu, you don't want to talk about the 4 million Christians slaughtered by Muslims in southern Sudan, eh?
The religion of peace, Abu?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > > Excluding ideological differences, our disagreement seems to start and end with Palestine.
> ...



Abu, I live in Israel and travel throughout the Middle East.  The vast majority of Arabs want Israel liquidated.

You are clueless, Abu


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > > Excluding ideological differences, our disagreement seems to start and end with Palestine.
> ...



Abu, your mindless posts are redeeming but only for their sheer entertainment value.  Keep them coming, Abu.  You're very amusing, ignorant Muzzie.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 8, 2010)

Not so Kalam. I am saying that the growth and decline of expansionism is an ebb and a flow with Islam. 

The encroachment was birthed in the six hundreds CE. by the expansionist Arabians. I am saying that is how countries and lands are taken. Tibet and Georgia break off provinces and many more come to mind.

Your acceptance of your sides moves to gain is shown. Israel is not in a very tiny flow at the moment, but it's creation was in much the same way.  By your acceptance of those struggles we spoke of, I would think that you make my point. Yes, you make your point too, but they seem to be coexistent. The ebb and flow is on a large scale. We are drops of water. 

You say Islam is not an Arabic religion. Then there is a great chance for your kind to modernize the interpretations when the war comes to the middle east. For by that statement you distance yourself from the root, and that is where the problem lies. Islam can coexist with the world. If it overtakes the world, then it was meant to be. If it doesn't, then it wasn't.

That's likely the best thing I have read you post by the way. 

A question for you. What do you think of usury? I know the Uyghur are some fine little accountants. 

There's always some ground. Doubly so when it is just discussion.



Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > You make my argument back to me.
> ...


----------



## Kalam (Dec 8, 2010)

Ropey said:


> You say Islam is not an Arabic religion. Then there is a great chance for your kind to modernize the interpretations when the war comes to the middle east. For by that statement you distance yourself from the root, and that is where the problem lies.


The root? No, Islam was never an Arab religion. It was treated as one by the Umayyads, whose theft of power from the Rashidun and transformation of the caliphate into a hereditary institution ushered in a millennium of mostly unjust rule. 

The only legitimate interpretation of Islam is that which is based entirely on the Qur'an and the Sunnah; innovation in religious matters is forbidden. 



Ropey said:


> Islam can coexist with the world. If it overtakes the world, then it was meant to be. If it doesn't, then it wasn't.
> 
> That's likely the best thing I have read you post by the way.
> 
> A question for you. What do you think of usury? I know the Uyghur are some fine little accountants.


I avoid it as much as it's possible for one to avoid usury in the West.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 8, 2010)

> The only legitimate interpretation of Islam is that which is based entirely on the Qur'an and the Sunnah; innovation in religious matters is forbidden.



Now, with present interpretation, that's a chilling reminder of Islam's intractability.  

So, the Uyghur also do not practice Islam correctly if they institute usury? In its purest form? The one you so conveniently hold?

The one that supersedes all others?

Wait!

I've heard this before. ...


----------



## Kalam (Dec 8, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Now, with present interpretation, that's a chilling reminder of Islam's intractability.
> 
> So, the Uyghur also do not practice Islam correctly if they institute usury? In its purest form? The one you so conveniently hold?
> 
> ...



Any individual who makes a conscious decision to practice usury stands in clear violation of the commandments of Islam. I'm not sure what you're rambling about, nor can I say that I care.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 8, 2010)

Jroc said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > There are Jewish fanatics as well who say that they should have a greater Israel. Both sides of fanatics are winning at the moment. The difference is that his side's leaders are those selfsame fanatics and the Democracy that is Israel still is able to marginalize our fanatics.
> ...


How would you deal with "Palestinians" who refused your offer?

How would you circumvent Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention:

"Art. 49. Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive."

Not that Israel makes a practice of observing international law.

GCIV - Wiki


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 8, 2010)

Ropey said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...


Probably not, Ropey.

Civility has been in short supply on this forum for some time now.

As far as answers, I think I'll let the "language teacher" suggest one:

"The fact that the Israel-Palestine conflict grinds on without resolution might appear to be rather strange. For many of the world's conflicts, it is difficult even to conjure up a feasible settlement. 

"In this case, it is not only possible, but there is near universal agreement on its basic contours: a two-state settlement along the internationally recognized (pre-June 1967) borders -- with 'minor and mutual modifications,' to adopt official U.S. terminology before Washington departed from the international community in the mid-1970s.

"The basic principles have been accepted by virtually the entire world, including the Arab states (who go on to call for full normalization of relations), the Organization of Islamic States (including Iran), and relevant non-state actors (including Hamas). 

"A settlement along these lines was first proposed at the U.N. Security Council in *January 1976* by the major Arab states. 

"*Israel refused to attend the session*. 

"*The U.S. vetoed the resolution, and did so again in 1980*. 

"The record at the General Assembly since is similar. 

A Middle East Peace...


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Chomsky is a language teacher, not an authority on the Middle East.

No wonder you have zero reputational points, Muslim trash

Prominent Israeli Arab journalist Khaled Abu Toameh is an authority on the Middle East.

*Khaled Abu Toameh: Israelis Want Peace*...


> I dont care who is in government in Israel. There is a partner. And my partner is the Jewish people. Why? Because a majority of Jews have already accepted a 2 state solution. I see a majority of Jews who dont care anymore about Gaza. I see a majority of Jews who want to disengage from the Palestinians. I see a majority of Jews over the last 15 years marching toward moderation and pragmatism. I dont know today of one Jewish mother that wants to send her son back to the streets of Ramallah or Gaza. I dont know of one Jew who wants to control the lives of the Palestinians and run their education and health system. Sadly though, while the Jewish public has been marching towards pragmatism and realism and moderation, on the Arab side the message remains no, no and no.


Abu Toameh: What the Western Media Misses | FrumForum


*Khaled Abu Toameh: Pallies Don't Want Peace*


> If Hamas say they want to destroy you, you have no reason not to believe them. And if Ahmadinejad says he wants to destroy you, theres no need to start analysing what he means by that. Stop fooling ourselves and if anyone thinks that Hamas will ever recognise Israels right to exist, youre also living in an illusion. Take it from their mouth directlythe PLO however is different  they will tell you one thing in English and then another in Arabic.



Abu Toameh: What the Western Media Misses | FrumForum


----------



## Ropey (Dec 8, 2010)

You cite a self-hating Jew and one who is at the extreme end. Try to find a middle George. 

I will not quote your sides extremists. It is not useful to discussion. I see now that this place is not about discussing really.

It's more about stagnancy and both sides have their share of contempt and fear.   I may disagree with your view, but I can and do separate person from personality. 

Not that the above will change anything with those who are so far at the end of the divide as to cite such a source. 

Of course both sides have their detractors. At that time, Israel was in short supply of leaders with courage. Now both sides do not have a leader with courage, but you seem to think it is only one side. 

I will tell you this George.

With Hezbollah and over twenty thousand troops on the border of South Lebanon. With Hamas and Gaza allowing both Al-Qaida and the Shia along with all their other fragmented groups to arm with resources from Iran via both waterways and Syria land routes. With Iran moving toward the creation of military nuclear piles. With Syria arming itself from both Iran and North Korea...

Israeli people and their politicians have decided it must either be a middle east wide peace, or no peace talks.

The last thing Israel wants is another Iranian proxy on its borders, and at this time, it has much Iranian involvement there as well as Al-Qaida all over the Jordanian border.

No, Israel sees a war coming and the cabinet is not willing to talk peace unless the peace talks are fully mid-east wide.

That's just the reality of the arena. The Israeli also refuse to negotiate as if they are loser of all the wars they have won.

The Palestinians refuse to negotiate with the Jews unless there is an intermediary. The Israeli say that they must be willing to negotiate face to face.

And not only them. The entire middle east. I think that will only happen after a large war. That is the proof of history.

Regardless of what a self-hating Jew says. I will not post what Asra Nomani says about Muslims. She's far to deep in the other end of where you seem to be, with the definitive word being 'seem'. 



georgephillip said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

Ropey said:


> It's more about stagnancy and both sides have their share of contempt and fear.



Well, no.  It's ok to assign blame where it is due...  

Israeli Arab Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh...


> If Hamas say they want to destroy you, you have no reason not to believe them. And if Ahmadinejad says he wants to destroy you, theres no need to start analysing what he means by that. Stop fooling ourselves and if anyone thinks that Hamas will ever recognise Israels right to exist, youre also living in an illusion. Take it from their mouth directlythe PLO however is different  they will tell you one thing in English and then another in Arabic



Khaled Abu Toameh...


> I dont care who is in government in Israel. There is a partner. And my partner is the Jewish people. Why? Because a majority of Jews have already accepted a 2 state solution. I see a majority of Jews who dont care anymore about Gaza. I see a majority of Jews who want to disengage from the Palestinians. I see a majority of Jews over the last 15 years marching toward moderation and pragmatism. I dont know today of one Jewish mother that wants to send her son back to the streets of Ramallah or Gaza. I dont know of one Jew who wants to control the lives of the Palestinians and run their education and health system. Sadly though, while the Jewish public has been marching towards pragmatism and realism and moderation, on the Arab side the message remains no, no and no.


Abu Toameh: What the Western Media Misses | FrumForum


----------



## Ropey (Dec 8, 2010)

I think that others who read these pages will understand what I am saying. I am not lacking in clarity when I say that you clearly stated two major problems with Islam. (to my view)

First being there can be only one and that one is yours. Above and beyond any of the other sects or splits.

That will and has transitioned to other parts of the globe than the middle east. Since it has, it is in the flow, not the ebb.

Since this is the case, all the entries of your ideology must fall to the subjugation sooner or later. 

That's the reason for the border wars that you blame on the large countries whose borders Muslims have been systematically encroaching since six hundred CE. 

So, secondly, it's a clear case of Muslim flow into areas that they are not indigent. 

So now you say you don't understand? Come on, you are not that dim.

I put forward that you don't want to understand, but you can simply just disagree. When you say you don't understand, you are saying, by extension, that you are not even dimly able to grasp the above extensions to Muslim encroachment by both border war and silent sedition.



Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Now, with present interpretation, that's a chilling reminder of Islam's intractability.
> ...


----------



## Ropey (Dec 8, 2010)

Regardless, both sides have had their chances. Would that there was more courage middle east wide. Would that there were more leaders willing to talk peace face to face. 

But sadly, history shows that usually only happens when both sides are massively sickened after a war that has sickened both sides by the deaths.

With the middle east wide weapons buildup, history has never shown a desire for peace between warring sides engaged in those acts.

I go with history. Now that doesn't mean I am correct. No one knows where this ship laden with hate and fear will finally let anchor.

But the ship carries far more than the Arabians they call Palestinians and the Israeli.

I know one thing. More Arabs will die from Muslim attacks in Israel than Jews in Palestine. Or Iran. Or Syria, Or Lebanon...

And many Jews will die in this war. I was involved in Seventy Three. There were good reasons for the Jews to not look towards peace after Seventy Three. They still stand. No talks unless they are Middle East wide. Peace by inclusion. 

Not exclusion...



Marc39 said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > It's more about stagnancy and both sides have their share of contempt and fear.
> ...


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Regardless, both sides have had their chances. Would that there was more courage middle east wide. Would that there were more leaders willing to talk peace face to face.



Yawn.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 8, 2010)

> I must be a fanatic then because to me Jordan is the so-called "Palestinian" state. Judea and Samaria should be annexed and with all the money being wasted on the "Palestinians" they could be relocated to Jordan.



Not so. Your definitive word is "should" and "could" and you took personal responsibility for your view. 

If you were a fanatic that would not be the words you would use.  It would be couched in absolutist and concrete terms.

ie.

_Jordan IS the so-called "Palestinian" state. Judea and Samaria MUST be annexed and with all the money being wasted on the "Palestinians" they MUST be relocated to Jordan

There is no other way. _

So I say no, you are not fanatically minded with the statement (below) you make.



> *to me* Jordan is the so-called "Palestinian" state. Judea and Samaria *should *be annexed and with all the money being wasted on the "Palestinians" they *could *be relocated to Jordan.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 8, 2010)

Inclusion Marc. Acceptance of intellectual views is the power of Democracy, not its weakness. 



Marc39 said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Regardless, both sides have had their chances. Would that there was more courage middle east wide. Would that there were more leaders willing to talk peace face to face.
> ...


----------



## Ropey (Dec 8, 2010)

Ropey said:


> You say Islam is not an Arabic religion. Then there is a great chance for your kind to modernize the interpretations when the war comes to the middle east. For by that statement you distance yourself from the root, and that is where the problem lies. Islam can coexist with the world. If it overtakes the world, then it was meant to be. If it doesn't, then it wasn't.





			
				Kalam said:
			
		

> The only legitimate interpretation of Islam is that which is based entirely on the Qur'an and the Sunnah; innovation in religious matters is forbidden.





			
				Kalam said:
			
		

> Any individual who makes a conscious decision to practice usury stands in clear violation of the commandments of Islam.



Rather hard to modernize something that is forbidden. Thus my statement can not come to pass with your framework.

The second point is simply that you seem to see no problems with Muslim encroachment and see it as a legitimate struggle.

I say that this struggle has been going on for quite some time and is in a flow at the moment. 

The proof is the response from the non Islamic countries that are in border wars with Islam who encroached, then moved to quiescence and who are now moving once again. 

The fight is now being taken up by both sides and there will be greater responses in the future. You see it coming as well since you have mentioned the increased responses to Islam. 

This is the start. A student of history should remember the last flow and ebb. 

I do.


----------



## Jos (Dec 8, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Yawn.



Time for your wet nurse to feed you before putting you to bed


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

Jos said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Yawn.
> ...



You solicit men on the internet, mariposa, but you don't want to suck a wet nurse.

Did you prostrate yourself to your pagan moon god allah, Mahoundian?


----------



## Kalam (Dec 8, 2010)

Ropey said:


> That's the reason for the border wars that you blame on the large countries whose borders Muslims have been systematically encroaching since six hundred CE.


Not to nitpick, but I've corrected you on this point already -- Islam in the Caucasus predates Russian encroachment.



Ropey said:


> So, secondly, it's a clear case of Muslim flow into areas that they are not indigent.


Indigenous. Universalistic religions have always attracted converts or at least attempted to do so; this phenomenon is hardly unique to Islam. I fail to see why you consider this to be a major problem.



Ropey said:


> So now you say you don't understand? Come on, you are not that dim.
> 
> I put forward that you don't want to understand, but you can simply just disagree. When you say you don't understand, you are saying, by extension, that you are not even dimly able to grasp the above extensions to Muslim encroachment by both border war and silent sedition.


Your posts seem to have taken on a bit of a condescending tone, or maybe they've always been that way. In either case, I don't think that talking down to each other is going to facilitate any sort of mutual understanding.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 8, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Indigenous. Universalistic religions have always attracted converts or at least attempted to do so; this phenomenon is hardly unique to Islam. I fail to see why you consider this to be a major problem.



No religion other than Islam places demands to convert or face death.  No other religion makes conversion out of its religio na capital offense punishable by death 

You're a sucker following a scam death cult concocted by an illiterate pedophile.

*Why I left Islam
By Waleed Al-Husseini *


> Islam is an authoritarian religion that does not respect the individuals&#8217; freedom of choice, which is easily noticeable from its barbaric verdicts such as stoning the adulterous, pushing the homosexuals off a cliff and killing the apostates for daring to express a different viewpoint. Then there is the plight of other religions&#8217; followers in the Muslim State. Islam urges its followers to fight the infidels until they convert or agree to pay a tax known as "Jizya" per capita in total submission.The sacred texts in Islam also encourage blatant war and conquest of new territories to spread the religion of Muhammad, instead of using peaceful means to convey the message, relying only on a rational argumentative scheme; something that Islam, like any other religion for that matter, evidently lacks. It is simply a terrible insult to human values and a proof of unprecedented dementia.
> 
> I was flabbergasted when I learnt the commandments of Islam regarding the alliance and disavowal and the aberrant division of the world into believers and unbelievers, with all the outrageous provisions this implies for the "Dhimmis" and the&#8221; Jizya "! A man also has the right to correct his wife by beating her and / or deserting the marital bed if she refuses to submit to his will. She has no choice when it comes to satisfying his sexual desire whenever he feels like it, with no regard whatsoever of her feelings and desires.
> 
> ...


http://proud-a.blogspot.com/2010/08/why-i-left-islam.html


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## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

> I fail to see why you consider this to be a major problem.



I see the danger it poses to Israel. Islam is intractable. They will demand submission of Israel That's what they demand now. 

This can be extended to the encroachment and silent sedition. It is why I have lobbied against the attempt to institute Sharia in Canada. I was there, commented and expounded on methods used by Muslims in Canada who are traveling back to Pakistan, etc. to marry their first cousins, come back and get permission by the Muslim council which would then allow dispensation.

Canada has legislated and enacted amendments against such council powers.  Oh, you may fail to see it Kalam.

But it is clearly seen.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> > I fail to see why you consider this to be a major problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Islam = Fascism.  Kalam is a brainwashed Islamic robot.

Ayatollah Khomeini...


> Those who study jihad will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. All the countries conquered by Islam or to be conquered in the future will be marked for everlasting salvation. For they shall live under Allah's law (Sharia). &#8230; Islam says: 'Kill [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter their armies.' Islam says: 'Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to paradise, which can be opened only for holy warriors (jihadists)!' There are hundreds of other Koranic psalms and hadiths (sayings of the prophet) urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim. &#8230;Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless.


----------



## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> I see the danger it poses to Israel. Islam is intractable. They will demand submission of Israel That's what they demand now.


...Which brings us back to the point I made earlier about our disagreement over Israel. It seems to be the primary reason why Islam is anathema to Zionist Jews, including you. 



Ropey said:


> This can be extended to the encroachment and silent sedition. It is why I have lobbied against the attempt to institute Sharia in Canada. I was there, commented and expounded on methods used by Muslims in Canada who are traveling back to Pakistan, etc. to marry their first cousins, come back and get permission by the Muslim council which would then allow dispensation.
> 
> Canada has legislated and enacted amendments against such council powers.  Oh, you may fail to see it Kalam.
> 
> But it is clearly seen.


Remind me of how this affects you.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > I see the danger it poses to Israel. Islam is intractable. They will demand submission of Israel That's what they demand now.
> ...



Kalam, you're a brainwashed jihadist robot, so, let me inform everyone of the Islamic doctrine of dar al-Islam dar al-Harb that compels all Muslims to kill all non-Muslims unless they convert or submit to Islam.

Allahu fucku.

Islamic scholar Bernard Lewis...


> *For most of the fourteen centuries of recorded Muslim history, jihad was most commonly interpreted to mean armed struggle for the defense or advancement of Muslim power. In Muslim tradition, the world is divided into two houses: the House of Islam (Dar al-Islam), in which Muslim governments rule and Muslim law prevails, and the House of War (Dar al-Harb), the rest of the world, still inhabited and, more important, ruled by infidels. The presumption is that the duty of jihad will continue, interrupted only by truces, until all the world either adopts the Muslim faith or submits to Muslim rule*.


[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Power-Religion-Politics-Middle/dp/019514421X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291876649&sr=8-1[/ame]


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> > I fail to see why you consider this to be a major problem.
> 
> 
> 
> I see the danger it poses to Israel...



Oh, and you may want to tell that Jewish gadfly Marc39 that I don't read anything he posts. I tried telling him myself, but the poor little guy didn't quite get it in spite of his 5 Princeton degrees or whatever it is that he claims to have these days.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > > I fail to see why you consider this to be a major problem.
> ...



You read ever syllable I post, Muhammadan.

The Jew is vastly superior to the Muslim.  You learn from me, jihadist dog.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

> Your posts seem to have taken on a bit of a condescending tone, or maybe they've always been that way. In either case, I don't think that talking down to each other is going to facilitate any sort of mutual understanding.





Kalam said:


> I'm not sure what you're rambling about, nor can I say that I care.



That seems rather disingenuous. Kalam. I ramble and you don't care? This is conducive to lateral discussions?  Remember when I said that (above) your leaving this thread because you didn't like the nature of my post since it didn't fit with your view of the topic, was patterned.

I showed that there was an arguable case that it did fit. You then said you were off, and that the conversation was over unless I followed your command to start a new conversation. *s*

I mentioned that it seemed much like the negotiations with the Israeli and the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians.

So Kalam, you may wish to look in your own back yard. When you say you don't understand what I am talking about and then couch it in terms of me "rambling", I put forward taht you are far more condescending than my challenging  of your perspective when you say you do not see something that I see. That's simply a part of discussion.

I am not looking down at you since I am a believer in lateral communications, but a stronger believer in challenging others views.

Your answers have strengthened my view of the danger with allowing such high percentages of Arabians inside of Israel. This will have to be addressed with any negotiations.

Whether you are Arabian or not, your view that Islam is intractable, and can not be modified is the same view as the Sunni and the Shia.


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > > I fail to see why you consider this to be a major problem.
> ...



Islamic scholar Bernard Lewis...


> *For most of the fourteen centuries of recorded Muslim history, jihad was most commonly interpreted to mean armed struggle for the defense or advancement of Muslim power. In Muslim tradition, the world is divided into two houses: the House of Islam (Dar al-Islam), in which Muslim governments rule and Muslim law prevails, and the House of War (Dar al-Harb), the rest of the world, still inhabited and, more important, ruled by infidels. The presumption is that the duty of jihad will continue, interrupted only by truces, until all the world either adopts the Muslim faith or submits to Muslim rule*.


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Power-Religion-Politics-Middle/dp/019514421X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291876649&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East (9780195144215): Bernard Lewis: Books[/ame]


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> That seems rather disingenuous. Kalam. I ramble and you don't care? This is conducive to lateral discussions?  Remember when I said that (above) your leaving this thread because you didn't like the nature of my post since it didn't fit with your view of the topic, was patterned.



That was posted at 7 AM after a night of no sleep, so I hope you'll overlook my rudeness. 



Ropey said:


> Whether you are Arabian or not, your view that Islam is intractable, and can not be modified is the same view as the Sunni and the Shia.



I'm not. I'm a student of their language, among other things, and a Sunni.


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > > I fail to see why you consider this to be a major problem.
> ...



This bears repeating.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



This bears repeating, Muzzie virgin chaser...

Ayatollah Khomeini... 


> Those who study jihad will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. All the countries conquered by Islam or to be conquered in the future will be marked for everlasting salvation. For they shall live under Allah's law (Sharia).  Islam says: 'Kill [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter their armies.' Islam says: 'Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to paradise, which can be opened only for holy warriors (jihadists)!' There are hundreds of other Koranic psalms and hadiths (sayings of the prophet) urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim. Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless.


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## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> That was posted at 7 AM after a night of no sleep, so I hope you'll overlook my rudeness.



Indeed. It was nothing, and you will note I did not respond or challenge it either, choosing to move on to what really matters. That should give you some small insight as to my character. It is not about competition. It is about:

_Your thoughts. My thoughts and the Thoughts of Others._ 



			
				Kalam said:
			
		

> Oh, and you may want to tell....



So you ask me to overlook... in one sentence and then attempt to use me as a servant to carry your negative waves with another?

I am not a servant. This is why I did not create that thread.  

You may have discerned that and not attempted to twice use me thus which says far more about you than it does about Marc.

Since you called me in on this I will respond. I would not have otherwise.

I say Marc takes you head on, and you attempt to use me as a proxy.  Like Iran is doing with Hezbollah and Hamas etc. etc. 

Regardless of his content and your content.  Those are your contents, not mine. 

Please.


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> So you ask me to overlook... in one sentence and then attempt to use me as a servant to carry your negative waves with another?
> 
> I am not a servant. This is why I did not create that thread.
> 
> ...



It's impossible for me to engage him in any sort of discussion because he does nothing but post babyish insults. That you've said nothing in response to his trollish name-calling and open racism is quite telling. This is a pattern I've noticed among Zionist Jews in general -- you seem to never criticize any of your own, even if they're clearly nothing but pests. He used to insult another Jewish poster her by calling her a "whore" and similar names; she says nothing against him. If a "Muslim" conducted himself in such a matter, I'd kick him to the curb immediately. Do you people have no shame or principles?


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## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

That is your case with him Kalam. If you do not stand yourself, why do you expect others to stand for you?

In discussion?

Come on. Really?  I was a little boy when I was taught that "Sticks and Stones Will Break My Bones But Names Will Never Hurt Me."

Now I didn't respond when you made it personal, why would I stand to your being attacked with words?

Then you couch it in terms of my race?

OK 



Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > So you ask me to overlook... in one sentence and then attempt to use me as a servant to carry your negative waves with another?
> ...


----------



## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> That is your case with him Kalam. If you do not stand yourself, why do you expect others to stand for you?
> 
> In discussion?
> 
> ...



You're missing the point. The most vocal representative of your ideology on this board is a childish and openly racist troll, and you seem to have no problem with this.



Ropey said:


> Then you couch it in terms of my race?
> 
> OK


Your ideology, hence the "Zionist" qualifier.


----------



## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

Are you serious? In discussion with words? 

I will leave the entire thread with this personal view and it is to be taken as my personal view, no more, although it is not of my creation.

*Profanity is the sign of a weak mind, attempting to express itself forcibly and failing miserably.*

I stand to this as a personal choice. Every other human being including you can make your own stance with what they are willing to accept and what they are not willing to accept.

Stand up for yourself if it bothers you Kalam. It doesn't bother me, but I've been around since the days of the university BBS's. 

I just bypass stuff I don't want to read. There's more than a few I bypass here already. It's just words. If you don't like them, then take control of your life and your choices rather than attempt to enlist others in your inability to either accept or attack Marc on his grounds. 

The same with television. Someone is an actor in a show. You don't like this show of his? Change the channel.





Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > That is your case with him Kalam. If you do not stand yourself, why do you expect others to stand for you?
> ...


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> You're missing the point. The most vocal representative of your ideology on this board is a childish and openly racist troll



Who is racist, Muzzie Jew hater?  

"Oh, Allah, Kill All Jews And Americans"
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rls9eRKyo[/ame]

Allahu Fucku


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Your ideology, hence the "Zionist" qualifier.



The Zionist whose religion your pedophile Mahomet stole to concoct his fraudulent cult of Islam?

Let's see what some important figures say about Zionists and about the dreadful curse of Islam...

Martin Luther King, Jr...


> I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.


 
John F. Kennedy...


> Israel was not created in order to disappear - Israel will endure and flourish. It is the child of hope and the home of the brave. It can neither be broken by adversity nor demoralized by success. It carries the shield of democracy and it honors the sword of freedom.


 
Ronald Reagan...


> In Israel, free men and women are every day demonstrating the power of courage and faith. Israel is a land of stability and democracy in a region of tryanny and unrest


 
Bill Clinton...


> American and Israel share a special bond. Our relationship is unique among all nations. Like America, Israel is a strong democracy, a symbol of freedom, and an oasis of liberty, a home to the oppressed and persecuted.


 
Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.. 


> As I said on the 60th anniversary of its founding, the State of Israel appeared as a light, in a world emerging from deep darkness. Against all odds, that light has not been extinguished. It burns bright, upheld by the universal principles of all civilized nations &#8211; freedom, democracy, justice.



Alexis de Toqueville...


> I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. So far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.



Winston Churchill...


> How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
> 
> The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
> 
> ...



[ame=http://www.amazon.com/River-War-Sir-Winston-Churchill/dp/1598184253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1288411221&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The River War (9781598184259): Sir Winston S. Churchill: Books[/ame]


----------



## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Are you serious? In discussion with words?
> 
> I will leave the entire thread with this personal view and it is to be taken as my personal view, no more, although it is not of my creation.
> 
> ...



You missed the point again, but I suppose that doesn't matter since you've apparently decided to leave the discussion. Goodbye.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Are you serious? In discussion with words?
> ...



Are you off to get some Muslima pussy, like Muhammad says, Muzzie? 

Bukhari 7,62,81...


> Mohammed said, The marriage vow most rightly expected to be obeyed is the husbands right to enjoy the wifes vagina.


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## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

Leaving the thread with my personal view is not the same as leaving the thread. You can take this as me saying that I just tacked that on the threads wall and stand to it whilst on this forum.

Fire with fire simply creates more fires. I know Muslims take greater offense to words than Jews. So, I will accept that it bothers you more than it does myself. 

I refuse to be pulled into your "point" though. I saw it. It was a poor attempt. I will not make that connection, as they are far to disparate but I know you would make that argument. With words, anything goes. If someone I don't know calls me a name, why should that bother me?  Free speech can be problematic at times, but it's where I choose to stand.

So, I chose to walk away from that... machination of yours. 



Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Are you serious? In discussion with words?
> ...


----------



## mdn2000 (Dec 9, 2010)

Profanity and name calling, of the weak or strong, I can see the intellect on the wrong side of justice defining profanity and name calling as such. I can see the intellect on the wrong side of justice calling for peace and restraint, this works for the intellectual tyrant.

The lousy piece of shit bastard wishes to be above the fray with his righteous use of words.  Well the righteous rape tiny 12 year old girls, murder homosexuals, stone to death woman who find comfort in a non-moslem arms they wish to demean us if we call them the lousy mother-fuckers that they are.

In all seriousness, there is a time when mere words do not convey the proper response. 

There is no Allah, there is no god of Islam, we do not worship the same god. 

Rape of children, covering women in cloth so that they cannot see the world, denying woman the rights that a man enjoys.

That is a piece of shit, bigoted, ideology.

One day we will lose our temper with the ignorant moslem culture and the strong will destroy all of Islam. 

this should of happened many years ago.

The only problem in the Middle East is no body has the God-dam balls to piss on the rock in Mecca and wake up the fools still caught in an era of 1000 years ago.


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Profanity and name calling, of the weak or strong, I can see the intellect on the wrong side of justice defining profanity and name calling as such. I can see the intellect on the wrong side of justice calling for peace and restraint, this works for the intellectual tyrant.
> 
> The lousy piece of shit bastard wishes to be above the fray with his righteous use of words.  Well the righteous rape tiny 12 year old girls, murder homosexuals, stone to death woman who find comfort in a non-moslem arms they wish to demean us if we call them the lousy mother-fuckers that they are.
> 
> ...





Religion of Truth got your Huggies in a bunch, money grip?


----------



## mdn2000 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Profanity and name calling, of the weak or strong, I can see the intellect on the wrong side of justice defining profanity and name calling as such. I can see the intellect on the wrong side of justice calling for peace and restraint, this works for the intellectual tyrant.
> ...



To tell you the truth, yes, I hate to see hate. 

The Christian USA works for Islam, what do we get in turn, dead children and propaganda. 

I personally was screwed over by Moslems, they refused to pay a boss of mine after we installed structural steel for a building in Orange County California, I have another friend who Moslem neighbors moved their property line onto his property, he had to sue in court. 

Trouble with so many moslem people in the middle east is they have never had to work and when they did they forced the women to do all the work. 

I bet you its still like that across much of the moslem world, old cultures die hard.


----------



## georgephillip (Dec 9, 2010)

When you say the "Christian USA" works for Islam, are we at least getting overtime pay in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Our carpet bombing of the Afghans in 2001 murdered thousands (some say tens or hundreds of thousands) of Muslim civilians, the overwhelming majority of whom had no knowledge of 911.

Since March of 2003 one in four Iraqis has died, been displaced, maimed or incarcerated.

You should make a class-based analysis of the occupations of Arab lands and at least ask yourself why anyone should be allowed to profit from illegal wars and occupations?


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Profanity and name calling, of the weak or strong, I can see the intellect on the wrong side of justice defining profanity and name calling as such. I can see the intellect on the wrong side of justice calling for peace and restraint, this works for the intellectual tyrant.
> ...



The cult of Islam got you in a rage over your inferior and backward culture?


----------



## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

Here is what I wonder. I know Muslims like servants. We have seen this one who is a converted Sunni demanding me, a Jew, to stand for what should be his own stand.

Why? Islam says that Muslims can only defend other Muslims in the ummah. Let him find his own to protect him. Or, gasp, maybe he will learn to stand up for himself?? 

It reminds me of the non converted Arabians who call themselves Palestinians, begging for a homeland to be given to them. Rather than do the hard work that every other country that is not Arabian has had to do to create a country.

Wot?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Here is what I wonder. I know Muslims like servants. We have seen this one who is a converted Sunni demanding me, a Jew, to stand for what should be his own stand.
> 
> Why? Islam says that Muslims can only defend other Muslims in the ummah. Let him find his own to protect him. Or, gasp, maybe he will learn to stand up for himself??
> 
> ...



Careful, infidel, allah in his enmity and hatred is gonna disconnect your internet connection, since allah invented the internet.  

Quran 60:4... 


> We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone


----------



## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Here is what I wonder. I know Muslims like servants. We have seen this one who is a converted Sunni demanding me, a Jew, to stand for what should be his own stand.
> 
> Why? Islam says that Muslims can only defend other Muslims in the ummah. Let him find his own to protect him. Or, gasp, maybe he will learn to stand up for himself??
> 
> ...



Whining and playing victim isn't going to lay any Jewish stereotypes to rest, bubeleh.


----------



## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> I personally was screwed over by Moslems, they refused to pay a boss of mine after we installed structural steel for a building in Orange County California, I have another friend who Moslem neighbors moved their property line onto his property, he had to sue in court.



Clearly, they should all be wiped out.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> mdn2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Profanity and name calling, of the weak or strong, I can see the intellect on the wrong side of justice defining profanity and name calling as such. I can see the intellect on the wrong side of justice calling for peace and restraint, this works for the intellectual tyrant.
> ...



Tell em Kalam, Islam is the most tolerant vibrant religion on the face of the earth. Bow down


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## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Quran 60:4...





> We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone



I was on the road to Cairo. I saw how they treated their own when we had them prisoner. There is no buddy system in Islam. But they want a buddy system of Israeli servants on this forum? 

It's not going to happen with this Jew.


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



I'm glad you think so.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Hell yeah son, Islamic countries are the most open minded, tolerant accepting societies on the face of the Earth. The ignorant west can learn much from them


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > mdn2000 said:
> ...



Women don't do jack shit, in the Gulf Countries workers from India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc do all the work.


----------



## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



Oh no, I think the West clearly sets the benchmark for tolerance. Look no further than USMB, where we're constantly reminded that Makkah should be bombed and that all Muslims should be killed, etc.


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



You think so, because, you're a brainwashed Muzzie robot.

*Why I left Islam
By Waleed Al-Husseini *I


> *Islam is an authoritarian religion that does not respect the individuals&#8217; freedom of choice, which is easily noticeable from its barbaric verdicts such as stoning the adulterous, pushing the homosexuals off a cliff and killing the apostates for daring to express a different viewpoint. Then there is the plight of other religions&#8217; followers in the Muslim State. Islam urges its followers to fight the infidels until they convert or agree to pay a tax known as "Jizya" per capita in total submission.The sacred texts in Islam also encourage blatant war and conquest of new territories to spread the religion of Muhammad, instead of using peaceful means to convey the message, relying only on a rational argumentative scheme; something that Islam, like any other religion for that matter, evidently lacks. It is simply a terrible insult to human values and a proof of unprecedented dementia.*
> 
> I was flabbergasted when I learnt the commandments of Islam regarding the alliance and disavowal and the aberrant division of the world into believers and unbelievers, with all the outrageous provisions this implies for the "Dhimmis" and the&#8221; Jizya "! A man also has the right to correct his wife by beating her and / or deserting the marital bed if she refuses to submit to his will. She has no choice when it comes to satisfying his sexual desire whenever he feels like it, with no regard whatsoever of her feelings and desires.
> 
> ...


Why I left Islam


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## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Oh no, I think the West clearly sets the benchmark for tolerance. Look no further than USMB, where we're constantly reminded that Makkah should be bombed and that all Muslims should be killed, etc.



No, not all killed, just the fanatics working against the West, and then we must remove their conflicts and set them back to ebb, rather than flow. Not death. Just remove the flow and send them scurrying back to ebb. 

After nine eleven, the deed is done, the war is defined and it has been taken up. It's far bigger than any of us Kalam. 

As you said about the encroachment. Time will tell.


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> No, not all killed, just the fanatics working against the West, and then we must remove their conflicts and set them back to ebb, rather than flow. Not death. Just remove the flow and send them scurrying back to ebb.



So, how does Russia's continued oppression of Chechnya benefit you?


----------



## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:
			
		

> As you said about the encroachment. Time will tell.



To reiterate. Time will tell. The benefit will be told in time as well. At the moment, it is just another Muslim instigated border conflict. 

Another in a long line....


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> it is just another Muslim instigated border conflict.



...At this point, I'm forced to assume that you're repeating this lie on purpose.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



No, I think Muslim countries are way more tolerant.


----------



## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > High_Gravity said:
> ...



It's even funnier now than when you said it the first time.


----------



## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



Whats so funny about it? are you insulting Muslim countries?


----------



## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



There is no fun in Islam, Muzzie.    Allah is a kill-joy. 

Ayatollah Khomeini...


> Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious


[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Revolution-Writings-Declarations-Khomeini/dp/0933782039/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1291923953&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Islam and Revolution 1: Writings and Declarations of Imam Khomeini (9780933782037): Imam Khomeini, Hamid Algar: Books[/ame]


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

> Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious



Zoinks yo, no wonder the Ayatollah never smiled.


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
> 
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Oh, God. You've clearly never read anything I've said about them.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
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Well you better not insult them, Islam is the most open tolerant religion on Gods green earth and all Islamic countries treat their minorities, women, gays and other religions with the utmost warmth, hospitality, and respect. Making fun of Islamic countries will not be tolerated here.


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
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Who are you, again?


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
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A follower of the religion of peace.


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
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Oh. I thought you were a dime-a-dozen douchebag who thinks he's way funnier than he actually is. I guess I was wrong; my bad.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
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Allahu fuckbar.


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## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
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You must really stop looking in the mirror and reflecting your views. As if something you say will change the reality that we see?

And you think your words have that effect?

Clearly you are lost in the arrogance of the one true belief that supersedes all others.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Insulting a fellow Muslim is haram, fellow follower of the religion of peace.



> The Prophet said: "A Muslim is the brother of another Muslim; he does not harm him nor does he hand him over to his enemy. One who fulfills the need of another Muslim, Allah the Supreme, will fulfill the former's need. One who removes the difficulty of a Muslim, Allah the Almighty will remove one of his troubles on the Day of Judgment. Similarly one who covers (clothes) the faults of another Muslim, Allah the Almighty will cover the former's faults on the Day of Judgment". [Bukhari and Muslim]


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
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I am amazed my fellow Muslim brother thinks it is ok to insult other Muslims.



> The Prophet said: "A Muslim is the brother of another Muslim; he does not harm him nor does he hand him over to his enemy. One who fulfills the need of another Muslim, Allah the Supreme, will fulfill the former's need. One who removes the difficulty of a Muslim, Allah the Almighty will remove one of his troubles on the Day of Judgment. Similarly one who covers (clothes) the faults of another Muslim, Allah the Almighty will cover the former's faults on the Day of Judgment". [Bukhari and Muslim]


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
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All funny guys run out of jokes eventually, I guess.


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Kalam said:
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Mhm. Why do you lie about Chechnya?


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
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Following a scam cult of Islam concocted by a pedophile child molester would be funny were it not so sick


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
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Here's a new joke:   What do you say to a Muslima with two black eyes?
Nothing, you already told her...twice

Allah is most benificent


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> High_Gravity said:
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Islam is the religion of peace.


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## Jos (Dec 9, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kalam said:
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That was over 1400 years ago, will you condem today's Pedo's?



> A Hasidic rabbi and three of his sons are suspected of sexually abusing at least four female relatives, after the rabbi's eldest victim  his daughter  confided in a co-worker at a Jewish school, police said Friday.
> 
> The 58-year-old father and his 21-year-old son fled to Israel two days ago and are wanted for questioning in the case, police said. They were apparently driven to the airport by the mother
> 
> ...


Hasidic Rabbi, Sons Accused of Sexually Abusing Girls


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Kalam said:
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Arab scientists have invented a time-travel device that can transport an entire culture back to the 7th century. 
They're calling it 'Islam'.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> High_Gravity said:
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Arab scientists are responsible for the development of cars, air conditioners, cell phones, strip clubs, the internet, Facebook and Google.


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Jos said:


> Marc39 said:
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Except, all Muzzies, today, must pattern their backward lives after the pedophile Mahomet, Muzzie.

After all, Mahomet is The Perfect Man

Quran 33.21... 
Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Jos said:


> Marc39 said:
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Egyptian Cleric: Allah says it's cool to beat your Muslima beotch if she disobeys
MEMRI: Egyptian Cleric Sa&#039;d Arafat: Islam Permits Wife Beating Only When She Refuses to Have Sex with Her Husband


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Marc39 said:
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Did you hear about the latest Muslim invention? It's a solar-powered flashlight.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> High_Gravity said:
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I did hear about that, Muslim scientists are almost complete with designing an electricity system that works off of energy from the sun.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Muslims are also working on an electric stripper pole that shocks the dancers when they get mouthy.


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## HinduPatriot (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Muslims are also working on an electric stripper pole that shocks the dancers when they get mouthy.



The Muslim fuckers who are working on this should be castrated.


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

HinduPatriot said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Muslims are also working on an electric stripper pole that shocks the dancers when they get mouthy.
> ...



How did the Muslim mother teach her son which way to put his underwear on?
Fuse in the front!


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> HinduPatriot said:
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Q: What do female Muslims use for birth control?
A: Their faces. [See photo above.]

Q: What's the difference between a Muslim and a dead horse?
A. It's no fun beating a dead horse.

Q. What's the difference between an American BBQ and an Islamic BBQ?
A. In America, Humans roast animals over a fire. In Islam, it's the other way around.

Q. What do you say to a Muslim with his arm all the way up a camel's rump?
A. "Having car trouble?"

Q. What's the difference between Cindy Sheehan and a terrorist enemy?
A. I don't know either.

Q. What's the difference between Michael Moore and a one ton CARE package?
A. Michael Moore, if sliced real thin, can feed a larger Afghan village.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Mohammed heard one of his wives was leaving him, so he rushed home where he found her on the carpet in front of the tent with her belongings; he sat beside her and said, &#8220;I heard you were planning to leave me?&#8221; 

She replied, &#8220;Yes, I heard your other wives saying you were a pedophile!&#8221; 

Mohammed thinks for a minute or so and then responds, &#8220;that's a mighty big word for a 6 year old."


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Marc39 said:
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"When I was in the desert," said Abu one day, "I caused an entire tribe of vicious and bloodthirsty bedouins to run."

"How did you do it?" asked Habib

"Easy. I just ran, and they ran after me."


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## Jos (Dec 9, 2010)

Meanwhile Jewish  scientists are still trying to invent a shower with an emergency exit


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Jos said:


> Meanwhile Jewish  scientists are still trying to invent a shower with an emergency exit



Huh?


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## Kalam (Dec 9, 2010)




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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Jos said:


> Meanwhile Jewish  scientists are still trying to invent a shower with an emergency exit



Jewish scientists invented the Intel Pentium and Centrino microprocessors that power most computers.

No wonder Israel is a better place to live than your shitty Spain   

The UN ranks Israel among the 15 best countries to live in (out of 170 countries) in the world and with the highest qualities of life, emphasizing political and cultural freedom and equality in education, healthcare, life expectancy and income, ahead of England, Spain, Greece, Italy, Finland, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg and Austria 

Statistics | Human Development Reports (HDR) | United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)


> Human Development is a development paradigm that is about much more than the rise or fall of national incomes. It is about creating an environment in which people can develop their full potential and lead productive, creative lives in accord with their needs and interests. People are the real wealth of nations. Development is thus about expanding the choices people have to lead lives that they value. And it is thus about much more than economic growth, which is only a means if a very important one of enlarging peoples choices.
> 
> Fundamental to enlarging these choices is building human capabilities the range of things that people can do or be in life. The most basic capabilities for human development are to lead long and healthy lives, to be knowledgeable, to have access to the resources needed for a decent standard of living and to be able to participate in the life of the community. Without these, many choices are simply not available, and many opportunities in life remain inaccessible.


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


>



A man walks into a sex shop in Jerusalem looking for a sex doll. 

Clerk: So what kind do you want? Jewish, Christian or Muslim? 

Man confused: What's the difference? 

Clerk: The Muslim one blows itself up.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kalam said:
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> ...



You forgot the Muslim one also comes with profuse amounts of leg hair, arm hair, underpit hair and pubic hair.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Q. What do you call a Muslim who owns a camel and a goat?
A. Bisexual.

Q. How do Muslims practice safe sex?
A. They mark the camels that kick.

Q. What do Tehran and Hiroshima have in common?
A. Nothing, yet.

Q. What do you call a Muslim who owns 6 goats?
A. A pimp.


Q. whats the difference between a truck full of dead Muslim babies and a truck full of bowling balls?
A. The bowling bowls are hard to pick up with a pitchfork. 

Q: How do you tell a Sunni from a Shiite?
A: The Sunnis are the ones with the Shiite blown out of them.

Q. What's the hardest part about a Muslim killing his own daughter?
A. Suppressing the erection.

Q: How can you tell if a Muslim girl is old enough to marry?
A: Make her stand in a barrel. If her chin is over the top, she's old enough. If it isn't, cut the barrel down until her chin is over the top.

Q. What's the difference between a Muslim and a vampire?
A. At some point the vampire will stop being bloodthirsty.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Q. What can Saudi Arabia do to raise the average IQ in the country?
A. Allow Jews to come in.


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Q. What can Saudi Arabia do to raise the average IQ in the country?
> A. Allow Jews to come in.



Why aren't there any Muslims in Star Trek? 

Because it's set in the future


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## High_Gravity (Dec 9, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> > Q. What can Saudi Arabia do to raise the average IQ in the country?
> ...



Allah invented star trek.


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Marc39 said:
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The Imam calls in his two wives, Fatima and Ameena and their goat Farook. He looks at them with a tear in his eye and says to them that it was not Allah's will that a man should have more that two wives. 

"OK" Fatima replied, "I'll pack my things. I guess Ameena can feed Farook."


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## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

Amir Sinder.







I guess that's what happens when you strap explosives on and explode yourself.


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## mdn2000 (Dec 9, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> HinduPatriot said:
> 
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> > High_Gravity said:
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Thats funny, you know the reason there is room in the front for the fuse, tiny penis.


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## Ropey (Dec 9, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > it is just another Muslim instigated border conflict.
> ...



Bomber in Russia's Chechnya strikes near leader

*A suicide bomber detonated explosives near a music hall where the leader of Russia's Chechnya region was attending a concert, leaving him unharmed but injuring five servicemen.*

Seems the same pattern as the rest of the other Muslim border encroachments.  Youths angered by poverty and fired up by the ideology of global jihad stage near-daily attacks in the North Caucasus, and the Kremlin has named the region its single biggest domestic problem.

*Many want to carve out a sharia state independent from Russia and label regional leaders in the North Caucasus as infidels, accusing them of abandoning true Islam and siding with the Kremlin, unofficial Islamist web sites say.*



Clicky

My view:

_Any Muslims that turn themselves into self-ignition devices to slaughter innocent citizens in order to claim media attention are all part of the same sickness._


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## Marc39 (Dec 9, 2010)

mdn2000 said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
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> > HinduPatriot said:
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Why are Muslim brains so expensive in the market for body parts?
Muslim brains are very rare.


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## georgephillip (Dec 10, 2010)

How many *Israeli racist jokes* does it take to celebrate Independence? 

"On May 27, journalist Jesse Rosenfeld and I set out on the streets of Tel Aviv to probe the political opinions of young local residents. 

"We started the day filming at Tel Aviv University, where a group of Jewish and Palestinian Israeli students gathered to protest a proposed law that would *criminalize public observance of the Nakba*, or the mass expulsion and killing of Palestinians by Zionist militias in 1948. 

"There, we interviewed Palestinian Israeli students about the rising climate of repression, then spoke to another group of students who gathered nearby to heckle their Arab classmates and demand their deportation. 

"A few hundred meters away, *two genial business students* expressed support for the so-called Nakba law, remarking to us, *'If you want to keep democracy, you can't let people protest against the independence of the country.*'"

Goebbels never said it any better.

Or more clearly.

Memo to "Princeton":

Instead of throwing up your same tired boilerplate just tell us the English translation for the Hebrew word "Cushi" and how it applies to Obama?

Video: Young Israeli Racists


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## Jroc (Dec 10, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Amir Sinder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did you guys hear about this? a suicide bomber put explosives up his ass and shot himself staight up.




*Suicide bum-blast bombing startles Saudi prince*



Anal-ysis It has emerged that a fanatical al-Qaeda suicide terrorist attempted to kill a Saudi interior minister last month by concealing a bomb up his bottom (the terrorist's, not the minister's). The strategy backfired, so to speak, as the bum-bomber's own body muffled the deadly arse-blast and his target escaped with only minor injuries.

Reports of the attack, in which fundamentalist fundament mentalist Abdullah Hassan Tali' al-Asiri - aka Abul-Khair - attempted to assassinate Saudi Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, broke last month. However, media including Al-Arabiya TV and the Sun have now further newsened-up the story by revealing details of al-Asiri's method of smuggling the explosives through the Prince's security.

It appears that al-Asiri gained access to the Prince by surrendering to Saudi forces near the Yemeni border, saying he wanted to give himself up but insisting that he must do so face to face with bin Nayef personally. The Prince's guards apparently failed to detect that the 23-year-old fanatic had stuffed an unspecified amount of TNT and a firing system of some type up his arse, which he detonated once in the room where bin Nayef was receiving visitors in Jeddah.

Suicide bum-blast bombing startles Saudi prince ? The Register


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## docmauser1 (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> _"We started the day filming at Tel Aviv University, where a group of Jewish and Palestinian Israeli students gathered to protest a proposed law that would *criminalize public observance of the Nakba*, or the mass expulsion and killing of Palestinians by Zionist militias in 1948._


So, when is the nearest gathering of the native-american tribes in front of the White House in protest of the "mass-expulsion and killing at the hands of the settling militias" scheduled?


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## High_Gravity (Dec 10, 2010)

Jroc said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Amir Sinder.
> ...



This has been done before, the Nigerian who tried to blow up a plane in Detroit but the explosives in his underwear.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> How many *Israeli racist jokes* does it take to celebrate Independence?



How many Muslims does it take to change a light bulb?
None, they prefer to sit in the dark and blame it on the Jews.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> How many *Israeli racist jokes* does it take to celebrate Independence?



What's the difference between Islam and a pot of yogurt?
The yogurt has a living culture.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> How many []Israeli racist jokes[/B] does it take to celebrate Independence?



Why did the Muslim adulteress cross the road?
She was dragged by her feet, kicking and screaming, then she was stoned to death by a baying lynch-mob of brainwashed psychopaths.


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## georgephillip (Dec 10, 2010)

"Cushi?"

"Obama"??

"Princeton"???


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Cushi?"
> 
> "Obama"??
> 
> "Princeton"???



What's 8 feet long and is wrapped around a lump of shit? 
A turban!


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Cushi?"
> 
> "Obama"??
> 
> "Princeton"???



What's the difference between a catfish and an Arab woman?
One's got whiskers and smells. The other is a fish!


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> "Cushi?"
> 
> "Obama"??
> 
> "Princeton"???



How do you get 50 Arabs into a telephone booth? 
Tell them it isn't theirs!


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## High_Gravity (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "Cushi?"
> ...



Allah invented telephone booth's.


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## Kalam (Dec 10, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Bomber in Russia's Chechnya strikes near leader
> 
> *A suicide bomber detonated explosives near a music hall where the leader of Russia's Chechnya region was attending a concert, leaving him unharmed but injuring five servicemen.*
> 
> ...





Do you know what Ramzan Kadyrov does? Do you know why the Chechen struggle for independence, which began with the goal of establishing a secular democracy, is now a front in the global jihad?

Kremlin servicemen aren't innocent citizens; neither is Kadyrov.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Bomber in Russia's Chechnya strikes near leader
> ...



When might there be even one democracy among the nearly 60 Islamic shitholes, Abu?

Oh, that's right, the murderous cult of Muhammadanism does not permit free thought.  Even leaving Islam carries the death penalty under the Shariah.

*Why I left Islam
By Waleed Al-Husseini *


> * Islam is an authoritarian religion that does not respect the individuals&#8217; freedom of choice, which is easily noticeable from its barbaric verdicts such as stoning the adulterous, pushing the homosexuals off a cliff and killing the apostates for daring to express a different viewpoint. Then there is the plight of other religions&#8217; followers in the Muslim State. Islam urges its followers to fight the infidels until they convert or agree to pay a tax known as "Jizya" per capita in total submission.The sacred texts in Islam also encourage blatant war and conquest of new territories to spread the religion of Muhammad, instead of using peaceful means to convey the message, relying only on a rational argumentative scheme; something that Islam, like any other religion for that matter, evidently lacks. It is simply a terrible insult to human values and a proof of unprecedented dementia.
> *
> 
> I was flabbergasted when I learnt the commandments of Islam regarding the alliance and disavowal and the aberrant division of the world into believers and unbelievers, with all the outrageous provisions this implies for the "Dhimmis" and the&#8221; Jizya "! A man also has the right to correct his wife by beating her and / or deserting the marital bed if she refuses to submit to his will. She has no choice when it comes to satisfying his sexual desire whenever he feels like it, with no regard whatsoever of her feelings and desires.
> ...


Why I left Islam


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## Kalam (Dec 10, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Youths angered by poverty



No, not poverty. When you attack an entire population, the entire population is forced to defend itself. 






You think they wanted to fight?


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Youths angered by poverty
> ...



When allah tells brainwashed Muzzie robots to kill Jews, brainwashed Muzzie robots will kill Jews.

Sahih Bukhari, 4:52:177...


> The Day of Judgment will not have come until you fight with the Jews, and the stones and the trees behind which a Jew will be hiding will say: 'O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Youths angered by poverty
> ...



Except, the entire Muzzie population are intruders on Jewish land, where Jews have lived for thousands of years before Muzzies who originated from Arabia.

Allah says the Holy Land is Jewish land.  Ever open the Quran, ignorant Muzzie?

Quran 5:20-21...


> Remember Moses said to his people: 'O my people! Recall in remembrance the favor of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...




Allah invented poverty.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

High_Gravity said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > Kalam said:
> ...



You're actually correct.  An old Muslim proverb is the mind is a donkey and when you enter the house of allah [Become a Muslim], you leave the donkey outside.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Youths angered by poverty
> ...



Is that why Muslim Sunnis and Muslim Shiite-heads have been killing each other for 1400 years?

And, what of these Muzzie conflicts to kill other Muzzies?

Iran Iraq War, 1 million dead
Lebanese Civil War, 250,000 dead
Algerian Civl War: 300,000 dead
Bangladesh Civil War: 500,000 dead
Yemen Civil Wars
Iraq invades Kuwait
Kuwait expels 400,000 Palestinians
Black Sept., Jordan's King Hussein murders, expells 80,000 Palestinians
Syrian army kills 20,000 Syrians at Hama
Iraq gases Kurds
300 US Marines killed in Beirut
1400 year conflict between Sunnis and Shiites
Fratricide between Hamas and Fatah
Syria/Hizballah assassinate Lebanese PM Rafik Hariri


Perhaps, Muzzies simply have violence in their DNA.


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## High_Gravity (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
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Islam is the religion of peace.


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## Jroc (Dec 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Bomber in Russia's Chechnya strikes near leader
> ...




I do have some sympathies for the Chechens, Because I hate those Russian bastards and there are some similarities to the Jewish struggle to regain there homeland, but when they start taking school kids hostage and wanting to establish an Islamic state supported by radical muslim groups thats were we part company.


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## georgephillip (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > "Cushi?"
> ...


But you're not a racist bitch, right?

Why do Jewish college students call Obama ******?

Got any ****** jokes, Jew?

Fuck you and your racist state.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Fuck you and your racist state.



Martin Luther King, Jr....


> I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.


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## Jroc (Dec 10, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Shut up Georgie.. You're the only racist around here.. Friken Jew hater.. All you're posts are full of hate, envy and misery. I'll bet it sucks being you.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

Jroc said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Marc39 said:
> ...



Demon rum.


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## Kalam (Dec 10, 2010)

Jroc said:


> I do have some sympathies for the Chechens, Because I hate those Russian bastards and there are some similarities to the Jewish struggle to regain there homeland, but when they start taking school kids hostage and wanting to establish an Islamic state supported by radical muslim groups thats were we part company.



Shaykh Abdul-Halim forbade hostage-taking after the Beslan incident... but it would have never happened in the first place if Russian massacres weren't a regular occurrence:

Samashki massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Novye Aldi massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alkhan-Yurt massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Staropromyslovski massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That isn't even scratching the surface.



Jroc said:


> Shut up Georgie.. You're the only racist around here..


Oh, we all know that this isn't true. But we also know that a Zionist will rarely acknowledge the flaws of a fellow Zionist, even if the other is a hate-filled and utterly worthless human being.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Oh, we all know that this isn't true. But we also know that a Zionist will rarely acknowledge the flaws of a fellow Zionist, even if the other is a hate-filled and utterly worthless human being.



Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Zionist...


> I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.


 
US President John F. Kennedy was a Zionist...


> Israel was not created in order to disappear - Israel will endure and flourish. It is the child of hope and the home of the brave. It can neither be broken by adversity nor demoralized by success. It carries the shield of democracy and it honors the sword of freedom.


 
John F. Kennedy... 


> This nation, from the time of President Woodrow Wilson, has established and continued a tradition of friendship with Israel because we are committed to all free societies that seek a path to peace and honor individual right. In the prophetic spirit of Zionism all free men today look to a better world and in the experience of Zionism we know that it takes courage and perseverance and dedication to achieve it.


 
US President Lyndon Johnson was a Zionist...


> Our society is illuminated by the spiritual insights of the Hebrew prophets. America and Israel have a common love of human freedom, and they have a common faith in a democratic way of life.


 
US President Ronald Reagan was a Zionist...


> In Israel, free men and women are every day demonstrating the power of courage and faith. Back in 1948 when Israel was founded, pundits claimed the new country could never survive. Today, no one questions that. Israel is a land of stability and democracy in a region of tryanny and unrest


 
Ronald Reagan...


> For the people of Israel and America are historic partners in the global quest for human dignity and freedom. We will always remain at each other's side.


 
US President Gerald Ford was a Zionist...


> Americans and Israelis have both been inspired by moral aims. Indeed, my commitment to the security and to the future of Israel is based upon basic morality as well as enlightened self-interest. Our role in supporting Israel honors our own heritage.


 
US President Bill Clinton is a Zionist...


> Our relationship would never vary from its allegiance to the shared values, the shared religious heritage, the shared democratic politics which have made the relationship between the United States and Israel a special&#8212;even a wonderful&#8212;relationship.


 
Bill Clinton...


> American and Israel share a special bond. Our relationship is unique among all nations. Like America, Israel is a strong democracy, a symbol of freedom, and an oasis of liberty, a home to the oppressed and persecuted.


 
Colin Powell is a Zionist...


> Since Israel's establishment over 50 years ago, the United States has had an enduring, an ironclad commitment, to Israel's security. The United States-Israeli relationship is based on the broadest conception of American national interest in which our two nations are bound forever together by common democratic values and traditions. This will never change.


 
Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper is a Zionist.. 


> As I said on the 60th anniversary of its founding, the State of Israel appeared as a light, in a world emerging from deep darkness. Against all odds, that light has not been extinguished. It burns bright, upheld by the universal principles of all civilized nations &#8211; freedom, democracy, justice.


[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Israel-History-Martin-Gilbert/dp/0688123635/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1292038512&sr=8-1[/ame]


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, we all know that this isn't true. But we also know that a Zionist will rarely acknowledge the flaws of a fellow Zionist, even if the other is a hate-filled and utterly worthless human being.
> ...



A lifetime of Israeli propaganda can do that to you.


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## Jroc (Dec 10, 2010)

Kalam said:


> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > I do have some sympathies for the Chechens, Because I hate those Russian bastards and there are some similarities to the Jewish struggle to regain there homeland, but when they start taking school kids hostage and wanting to establish an Islamic state supported by radical muslim groups thats were we part company.
> ...



Ok...Thats still no excuse for children to be targeted, that kind of shit does not advance the cause or garner any sympathies toward the Chechens  





> Jroc said:
> 
> 
> > Shut up Georgie.. You're the only racist around here..
> ...



Ok... you got me on that one, there are plenty of Jew haters around here, i don't consider Marc to be a racist really. anti muslim..ok


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
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> > Kalam said:
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Yoiu can't even get one reputational point in an internet chat room: Loser!


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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I could if I regurgitated Israeli propaganda.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
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You can't buy one reputational point, loser.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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You cant debate, so what is you point?


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## Kalam (Dec 10, 2010)

Jroc said:


> Ok...Thats still no excuse for children to be targeted, that kind of shit does not advance the cause or garner any sympathies toward the Chechens



It was an act perpetrated by a man who was overwhelmed by what he saw Russia do to his country. He knew that he was a terrorist... he's dead now anyway so it doesn't matter.



Jroc said:


> Ok... you got me on that one, there are plenty of Jew haters around here, i don't consider Marc to be a racist really. anti muslim..ok




> What's the difference between a catfish and an Arab woman? One's got whiskers and smells. The other is a fish!



He's trash.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
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 [drugs]


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Maybe you should get off those drugs and get your debate skills up to speed.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
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Mentality of 8 year old


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Is that why you can't debate?


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


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You don't have a prayer, mental midget.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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A masters from Princeton at work.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
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I lower my standards for high school dropouts.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 10, 2010)

Marc39 said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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Great excuse for your incompetence.


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## Marc39 (Dec 10, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Marc39 said:
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Mirror mirror, ignorant sand rat


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## georgephillip (Dec 12, 2010)

For all racist Jews and those they love:

"The UN Security Council is now the last best hope for an equitable resolution of the Israel-Palestine conflict. 

"If Obama continues to curb it with regard to sanctions on Israel, then he will in essence be complicit in ensconcing an Aparteheid regime.

"(Anyone in doubt of the Apartheid analogy should read this.

&#8211;
"Update: 26 former EU leaders have just called for European Union economic sanctions on Israel for its continued building of settlements on occupied Palestinian land."

Obama Should


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## Marc39 (Dec 12, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> For all racist Jews and those they love:
> 
> "The UN Security Council is now the last best hope for an equitable resolution of the Israel-Palestine conflict.



*Israeli Arab Muslim Journalist Khaled Abu Toameh: The Pro Palestinian's Real Agenda*


> *The so-called pro-Palestinian &#8220;junta&#8221; on the campuses has nothing to offer other than hatred and de-legitimization of Israel. If these folks really cared about the Palestinians, they would be campaigning for good government and for the promotion of values of democracy and freedom in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Their hatred for Israel and what it stands for has blinded them to a point where they no longer care about the real interests of the Palestinians, namely the need to end the anarchy and lawlessness, and to dismantle all the armed gangs that are responsible for the death of hundreds of innocent Palestinians over the past few years. *
> 
> The majority of these activists openly admit that they have never visited Israel or the Palestinian territories. They don&#8217;t know -and don&#8217;t want to know - that Jews and Arabs here are still doing business together and studying together and meeting with each other on a daily basis because they are destined to live together in this part of the world. They don&#8217;t want to hear that despite all the problems life continues and that ordinary Arab and Jewish parents who wake up in the morning just want to send their children to school and go to work before returning home safely and happily.
> 
> What is happening on the U.S. campuses is not about supporting the Palestinians as much as it is about promoting hatred for the Jewish state. It is not really about ending the &#8220;occupation&#8221; as much as it is about ending the existence of Israel. Many of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas officials I talk to in the context of my work as a journalist sound much more pragmatic than most of the anti-Israel, &#8220;pro-Palestinian&#8221; folks on the campuses.


On Campus: The Pro-Palestinian's Real Agenda

*Khaled Abu Toameh: Arabs And Muslims Run To Israel*


> *Many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have a dream: to work or live in Israel. Some even say they are prepared to pay large sums of money to obtain Israeli citizenship.  Others pay a lot of money to Palestinian and Jewish traffickers who help them bypass checkpoints to enter Israel in search of work and good life. These are not self-hating Palestinians. Nor are they "pro-Israel traitors" who support the Zionist movement. Many Palestinians feel that neither Fatah nor Hamas has done enough to alleviate their suffering. Many Fatah leaders who stole billions of dollars of international donations earmarked for the Palestinians have invested their fortunes in hotels, tourist resorts and real estate firms in the West. Hamas, on the other hand, prefers to spend millions of dollars on purchasing [and smuggling] large amounts of weapons, including rockets and ammunition.*
> 
> It is a disgrace for Arab and Muslim dictators, particularly those who make billions of dollars from selling oil, that their constituents have to seek work and refuge in Israel and the West. It is also a disgrace for Fatah and Hamas that thousands of Palestinians cannot find jobs or a good life in the two Palestinian states in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.  Arab and Islamic regimes are spending billions of dollars on building new mosques and madrasas while nearly half of their people are illiterate and live under the poverty line. University graduates in these countries are forced to search for work in the West because of poor working conditions and lack of opportunities.
> 
> ...


The Iconoclast - New English Review

Khaled Abu Toameh...


> *Most Arabs in Jerusalem prefer to live under Israeli rule for a number of reasons. First, because as holders of Israeli ID cards they are entitled to many rights and privileges that Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip don't enjoy. They include freedom of movement and social, economic, health and education services that Israeli citizens are entitled to.*
> 
> Redividing Jerusalem means bringing either the Palestinian Authority of Hamas into the city. The Arab residents of Jerusalem have seen what happened in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the past 16 years and are not keen to live under a corrupt authority or a radical Islamist entity.
> 
> Over the past few years, many Arab residents of the city who used to live in the West Bank have abandoned their homes and returned to Jerusalem. They did so mainly out of fear of losing their rights and privileges as holders of Israeli ID cards.  But many of them also ran away from the West Bank because they did not want to live in territories controlled by militiamen, armed gangs and corrupt leaders and institutions.


Yahoo! Groups

Khaled Abu Toameh...


> *Arabs living in Israel have always enjoyed free and unlimited access to medical services. Israeli hospitals have always been full of Arab patients, who often heap praise on doctors and nurses for offering them the best treatment.*
> Even Arabs from neighboring countries have been seeking medical treatment in Israeli hospitals.  Many Arabs in Jerusalem are extremely grateful to the Israeli medical teams for their services. Hundreds, if not thousands, of Arabs can testify how these paramedics and doctors saved their lives.
> 
> Just two weeks ago, a 65-year-old Arab woman in Jerusalem who suffered a heart attack talked about how the Magen David medical team that rushed to her home had literally saved her life.  Magen David paramedics should be commended for the great work they are doing to offer the best medical treatment to patients -- regardless of their nationality and religion. They should be commended for endangering their lives to enter Arab villages and neighborhoods to save lives.


 Why do PalArabs attack ambulances? (Khaled Abu Toameh) : South Capitol Street


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## Ropey (Dec 12, 2010)

That is a reality Marc. 

Here's mine....

How many Jews does it take to change a light bulb?

It doesn't matter. They are too busy discussing and arguing for the reasoning as to why the bulb burnt out in the first place to get the bulb changed.

Then on Friday evening they need to find the Shabbat Goy to change it. 

They are still discussing and arguing over the Shabbat Goy.  Thousands of years of discussing and arguing.






Marc39 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > How many *Israeli racist jokes* does it take to celebrate Independence?
> ...


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## Marc39 (Dec 12, 2010)

Ropey said:


> That is a reality Marc.
> 
> Here's mine....
> 
> ...



Muslims didn't exist thousands of years ago.  Open a history book.


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## georgephillip (Dec 12, 2010)

How about gentile hating Jews?

Did they exist thousands of years ago?

"This summer, Yosef Elitzur and Yitzhak Shapira, who head an influential seminary in the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar, published The King&#8217;s Torah, a 230-page guide to how Jews should treat non-Jews.

"The two rabbis concluded that Jews were obligated to kill anyone who posed a danger, immediate or potential, to the Jewish people, and implied that all Palestinians were to be considered a threat. On these grounds, the pair justified killing Palestinian civilians and even their babies.

"*Last month Mr Shapira also backed the use of Palestinians as human shields*, a war crime under the Fourth Geneva Convention, and a practice that Israel&#8217;s supreme court has outlawed.

"The King&#8217;s Torah, far from being condemned by moderate rabbis, has been greeted with a general silence and *enthusiastic support from a number of notable religious leaders*."

What makes racist Jews less of a threat than fundamentalist Muslims?

Brand name?

Israel's Racist Rabbis


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## Ropey (Dec 12, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> What makes racist Jews less of a threat than fundamentalist Muslims?



There are approximately thirteen million jews worldwide of which approximately five and a half million live in Israel.

There are ~five hundred million Muslim Sunni Arabians and ~seventy million Muslim Shia Iranians.

So, by the mathematics.  And I don't see Racist Jews blowing people up. I see racist Islamists blowing people up worldwide.

Now you can blame all that on the Jews. That's what you do.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2010)

Ropey said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > What makes racist Jews less of a threat than fundamentalist Muslims?
> ...





> And I don't see Racist Jews blowing people up.



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCcxrrdS-Lo[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Dec 13, 2010)

Ropey said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > What makes racist Jews less of a threat than fundamentalist Muslims?
> ...


If you limit your definition of power or influence to population or geography, Muslims appear a larger threat to humanity. You should also factor in the megatons of potential destruction posed by Israel's hundreds of nuclear weapons.

And there isn't any doubt in reasonable minds which side the "world's only superpower" is on in the conflict.

Bombing by suicide is pretty much a last resort.
Something the powerless inflict on their tormentors.

The "Sampson Option?"
That's a mass homicide bombing Moses would endorse.


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## ForeverYoung436 (Dec 13, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...



Suicide bombings are pathological.  I have heard or read interviews of Palestinians saying they desire death to collect 72 virgins.  That has nothing to do with living conditions.  There is only one case of a suicide bombing in the entire Hebrew Bible, because the ancient Jews (Hebrews) desired life over death.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2010)

ForeverYoung436 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing years ago.


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## Ropey (Dec 13, 2010)

Indeed. We see who is blowing themselves up all over the world. They are being oppressed all over the world? 

OK 

It is indeed a systemic pathology that is taught through indoctrination of the children from a young age. It is not a symptom.

It IS the disease, not a symptom.

There was a time when this was common, but that was thousands of years ago.

I believe it is time for Islamic modernity.



ForeverYoung436 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
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## Ropey (Dec 13, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> ForeverYoung436 said:
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> 
> > georgephillip said:
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No they didn't. We built a wall and have kept them out. They blow themselves up around our solders at the barrier entrances, but they can not kill our young children in buses, coffee shops, schools, etc. anymore. 

But they still demand that the barriers be loosened. Why? So they can continue what they were doing before we built the barrier.

Killing innocent Jews...


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## Ropey (Dec 13, 2010)

*By their own Muslim definition of Peace*, the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians have been hijacked by the fanaticism of the above link relating to Islamic Peace and thus, by extension Arabian Muslim "Peace" which means no Israel in the Middle East. 

They refuse to acknowledge Israel as a legitimate Jewish state. This is not a denial of reality, although many of these ideologue fanatics  are lost in enough destruction of Israel fantasies, and culturally backward looking philosophy. 

It is a sign of the Arabic people's determination to change the reality that is the Sovereign State of Israel. Arabian leaders going back over sixty years have not sought to live in peace with the Sovereign Jewish state, but to destroy the Jewish state. 

Israel has made peace with two bordering Arabian countries, being Egypt and Jordan. The ones who have accepted Israel as a Jewish state and its inherent right to exist as such. 

Consider this.

Sixty two years ago, my people had nothing. The Arabians living in the area also had nothing. Sixty years later, my people have a country and theirs are still itinerant beggars. 

We were both offered a country at the same time. The Palestinian partition contained all of the land around Jerusalem and the Capital was to be for all three beliefs. 

The Arabians attacked Israel more than a few times and without a declaration of war since they say they are in a continual and generational war with Israel. To This Day!

A portion of that land that the Arabians lost in wars with Israel. Since then these Arabians who call themselves Palestinians have lived in squalor with nothing whilst their leaders take all the money to war and enrich themselves, leaving the Arabians they call Palestinians to beg on their own, which they do quite well, having learned in generations that they need do little but hold their hands out and they will receive more than if they were citizens in any Arabian country. Certainly they are treated far better than their Arabian brethren who lock them up tighter than Israel locks its borders from their suicide bombers.

Their leaders have pocketed the masses of money given for sustenance and given the people little. They have continued to fight for that which they will not receive, namely the deletion of Israel.

These people need to take concrete steps towards peace, or I see another sixty years of nothing for them. They are their own worst enemies. 

Their leaders kill more of their people than Anyone Else By Far! If they are not willing to see the problems inherent in the Palestinian Authority And Hamas And the dozen or so of roaming armed gangs, then I doubt very much they are even close to setting a date for peace talks, let alone any true peace.


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## Jroc (Dec 13, 2010)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4d9HPw4a_k"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4d9HPw4a_k[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjbJnZUJTYU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjbJnZUJTYU[/ame]


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## georgephillip (Dec 13, 2010)

Ropey said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > ForeverYoung436 said:
> ...


Your snipers continue killing Palestinian children from observation towers inside occupied Palestine.

Do you condone/deny this?


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## Ropey (Dec 13, 2010)

This tit for tat is useless. I will not respond to you either. You can talk with your buddy PF.

Your Arabians who call themselves Palestinians toss rockets our way from Gaza, Egypt and Jordan.

Do you condone/deny this?

They have come into Israel and exploded themselves in our schools. They entered the Sovereign state of Israel and killed ten children in a school in Sderot. 

Do you condone/deny this?

There might well be some rifles pointed the way where extremists are known to be. I know we send them out to find their snipers and attackers and shoot them.



georgephillip said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > P F Tinmore said:
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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2010)

Ropey said:


> P F Tinmore said:
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The Palestinians stopped suicide bombing as a policy in 2006. Palestinians get into Egypt with their wall. Hamas is active inside Israel. The wall thing is just propaganda.


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## Ropey (Dec 13, 2010)

Let them get into Egypt. We watch them in Israel and learn more from then than they do from us.  The wall is a control to stop them from coming in en masse. 

Not propaganda. They will need to go through the wall and our response is ready.


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## Ropey (Dec 13, 2010)

The Arabians who call themselves Palestinians are not citizens of Israel and like every other country in the world, are not privileged to the same rights as are a country's citizens. They have no right to come into Israel. 

The Gaza Strip has been turned back to the people as Israel left it completely in 2005. Israel is under no obligation to allow a group of people who call for it's destruction to use any part of Israel as a land route. 

Israel is not obligated under international law or any law for that matter to let a single Gazan step foot on Israeli soil. Almost every country in the world controls it's borders, and Israel is no different. Israel is under no obligation to live up a higher standard than any other country in the world. The Palestinians want equality? Let them ask for peace and build a second Palestinian homeland run by Palestinians. 

The fact is that the Palestinians don't have a single person capable of creating and running and independent country. If you can name anyone who is up to the job, please name him or her.

And since there is no Palestinian country, there are no borders yet and no borders means that any of their borders will be determined. 

As of now, they are simply squatting on land that was once owned by Egypt and Jordan but who don't want anything to do with these Arabians who call themselves Palestinians.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2010)

Ropey said:


> The Arabians who call themselves Palestinians are not citizens of Israel and like every other country in the world, are not privileged to the same rights as are a country's citizens. They have no right to come into Israel.
> 
> The Gaza Strip has been turned back to the people as Israel left it completely in 2005. Israel is under no obligation to allow a group of people who call for it's destruction to use any part of Israel as a land route.
> 
> ...



Palestine has borders. Israel does not.

Egypt and Jordan never owned any part of Palestine. They merely occupied Palestinian land.


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## Ropey (Dec 13, 2010)

If we go back to forty eight, then why not go back a few thousand years. There were no Palestinians then. There still aren't, and if they continue as you are, they never will.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2010)

Ropey said:


> So, what is your solution? Forty Eight?
> 
> Yeah, I doubt it.



Forty Eight?

Interesting.That is what the Palestinians call Israel.


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## Ropey (Dec 13, 2010)

Nothing interesting about it. You are simply a poster who would love to see the destruction of Israel.

Go back to forty eight? With what we know the Arabians want to do to us?

With sixty years of it of their hate?

Funny boy...


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 13, 2010)

Ropey said:


> Nothing interesting about it. You are simply a poster who would love to see the destruction of Israel.
> 
> Go back to forty eight? With what we know the Arabians want to do to us?
> 
> ...



Israel, with one of the strongest militaries in the world, attacked Palestine, a civilian country with no army, over 60 years ago and have not won yet.


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## Ropey (Dec 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> Ropey said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing interesting about it. You are simply a poster who would love to see the destruction of Israel.
> ...



Israel has a country. The Arabians who call themselves Palestinians hold less of what they had in forty eight. They continue the war and they continue to lose more land. 

Let them keep winning, all the way to the sea that they said they will push us into.


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2010)

Ropey said:


> P F Tinmore said:
> 
> 
> > Ropey said:
> ...



The Palestinians have never lost any land. It is merely occupied. A country does not cease to exist when it is occupied.


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## docmauser1 (Dec 14, 2010)

georgephillip said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


My silly fans here and there don't, really, have to be obtuse about the matter. Research is everything. Well, during the Mideast Insight symposium, held in Washington, May 4, 1998, an Al Ahram journo Houda Tawfik asked James Baker:
'What do you think is right? That these are occupied Arab territories and not disputed territories?"
James Baker responded:
"They're clearly disputed territories. That's what Resolutions 242 and 338 are all about. They are clearly disputed territories."


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## P F Tinmore (Dec 14, 2010)

docmauser1 said:


> georgephillip said:
> 
> 
> > docmauser1 said:
> ...



To Israel they are disputed. To the rest of the world they are occupied.


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## docmauser1 (Dec 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> docmauser1 said:
> 
> 
> > georgephillip said:
> ...


Non sequitur, of course. Typical.


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## docmauser1 (Dec 14, 2010)

P F Tinmore said:


> _The Palestinians have never lost any land._


Sure! They haven't had any to begin with.


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