# What is the first thing you think of when you look at this?



## Mini 14




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## uscitizen

Rednecks.

Hey you asked and I was honest.


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## Ravi

People with a chip on their shoulder that never got over their traitorous hate of the USA. Oh, and that hate black people.


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## Mr Natural

Traitors.


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## RadiomanATL

Boot Barnes, Punt Purdue, ignorant flaggots.


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## The Infidel

You asked..... 





But if ya really want my thoughts on that flag.... its the flag of a lost cause associated with a bunch of asshats.


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## SFC Ollie

Rebels. Just another piece of history.


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## The Infidel

SFC Ollie said:


> Rebels. Just another piece of history.



Yep.... really no biggie if ya want my opinion.


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## Mini 14

No one is going to hurt my feelings on this one, so don't hold back (I'm Cherokee, so I think ALL of you are fucked in the head, regardless of which side you were on).


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## SFC Ollie

None of us were around to take a side. And to guess where we would have stood had we been alive then is rather hard to do. We don't know the feelings that went with the politics. I would like to say I would have fought for the Union. And if you believe in reincarnation, maybe I did.


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## boedicca

Nascar


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## uscitizen

boedicca said:


> Nascar




Yep, what I said:  Rednecks


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## asterism

Mini 14 said:


>



2 things depending on where I see it:

1.  Southern Heritage if displayed in a historical fashion
2.  Don't go into that bar if displayed randomly in public.  I'm not black, I'm worse according to the hardliner racists - I'm Catholic.


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## Jeremy




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## RadiomanATL

asterism said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 things depending on where I see it:
> 
> 1.  Southern Heritage if displayed in a historical fashion
> 2.  Don't go into that bar if displayed randomly in public.  I'm not black, I'm worse according to the hardliner racists - I'm Catholic.
Click to expand...


Hey, me too!


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## JBeukema

Most of the idiots who fly that flag today are retards who don't even know what it is- and isn't. Many of them think it was the flag of the CSA


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## RadiomanATL

JBeukema said:


> Most of the idiots who fly that flag today are retards who don't even know what it is- and isn't. Many of them think it was the flag of the CSA



Funny.

Back approximately 10 years ago there was this huge bruh-haha in Georgia about removing the stars and bars from the state flag. All the ignoramuses were screaming about "heritage". When it was pointed out to them that the stars and bars were never a battle flag the Georgia contingent in the CSA, they really had no answer. Neither did they have an answer as to why it took approximately 90 years after the civil war to adopt it as part of the state flag. Nor did they have an answer as to why, if it was about heritage, they were just as opposed to the pre 1956 version.


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## Rat in the Hat

Mini 14 said:


>


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## Zander

Dixie


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## RadiomanATL

RadiomanATL said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the idiots who fly that flag today are retards who don't even know what it is- and isn't. Many of them think it was the flag of the CSA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny.
> 
> Back approximately 10 years ago there was this huge bruh-haha in Georgia about removing the stars and bars from the state flag. All the ignoramuses were screaming about "heritage". When it was pointed out to them that the stars and bars were never a battle flag the Georgia contingent in the CSA, they really had no answer. Neither did they have an answer as to why it took approximately 90 years after the civil war to adopt it as part of the state flag. Nor did they have an answer as to why, if it was about heritage, they were just as opposed to the pre 1956 version.
Click to expand...


Also, the move to prominently place the stars and bars on the state flag started in 1954. The same year as Brown vs Board overturned racial segregation in schools. But surely that was nothing more than a coincidence


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## Big Black Dog

Brings a tear to my eye...  specially if they are playing "Dixie" while waving it.  Seriously though - it was a symbol of America's past history.  If I was born 150 years ago it would probably mean something.  These days - doesn't really mean much to me.


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## Dr Grump

Mini 14 said:


>



White, bigotted trailer trash...


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## ABikerSailor

Whenever I see that particular flag, I'm always on guard, because rednecks are dangerous, (usually) obese people with guns and opinions, with very little wisdom or common sense.

Do I stick around?  Probably not, I've a very low tolerance for racists.


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## syrenn

Dixie


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## Dr.House

Dukes of Hazzard


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## Sunni Man

Mini 14 said:


>


Large glass of sweet tea, fried chicken, fried okra, and corn bread.


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## rdean

Mini 14 said:


>



I think of Republicans sitting down and making this:


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## Sallow

Treason, Traitors, Revolt, Insurrection, Slave Drivers.


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## asterism

RadiomanATL said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the idiots who fly that flag today are retards who don't even know what it is- and isn't. Many of them think it was the flag of the CSA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny.
> 
> Back approximately 10 years ago there was this huge bruh-haha in Georgia about removing the stars and bars from the state flag. All the ignoramuses were screaming about "heritage". When it was pointed out to them that the stars and bars were never a battle flag the Georgia contingent in the CSA, they really had no answer. Neither did they have an answer as to why it took approximately 90 years after the civil war to adopt it as part of the state flag. Nor did they have an answer as to why, if it was about heritage, they were just as opposed to the pre 1956 version.
Click to expand...


I remember that and it was funny.  Then I remember the meltdown from that faction when Perdue didn't do as they claimed he promised, put the flag up for a referendum.  They vowed that he would lose re-election in a landslide and well we all know how that worked out.  

But there is absolutely nothing racist about people displaying it in reference to Civil War relatives or Southern Heritage and Agricultural advancements.


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## RadiomanATL

asterism said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the idiots who fly that flag today are retards who don't even know what it is- and isn't. Many of them think it was the flag of the CSA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny.
> 
> Back approximately 10 years ago there was this huge bruh-haha in Georgia about removing the stars and bars from the state flag. All the ignoramuses were screaming about "heritage". When it was pointed out to them that the stars and bars were never a battle flag the Georgia contingent in the CSA, they really had no answer. Neither did they have an answer as to why it took approximately 90 years after the civil war to adopt it as part of the state flag. Nor did they have an answer as to why, if it was about heritage, they were just as opposed to the pre 1956 version.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I remember that and it was funny.  Then I remember the meltdown from that faction when Perdue didn't do as they claimed he promised, put the flag up for a referendum.  They vowed that he would lose re-election in a landslide and well all know how that worked out.
> 
> But there is absolutely nothing racist about people displaying it in reference to Civil War relatives or Southern Heritage and Agricultural advancements.
Click to expand...


Oh, Perdue did put the flag up for a referendum of some sort (that I remember), but the version with the stars and bars wasn't one of the ones that could be chosen. 

He "kept" his promise to the letter of it, but didn't keep it at the same time.


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## asterism

RadiomanATL said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the idiots who fly that flag today are retards who don't even know what it is- and isn't. Many of them think it was the flag of the CSA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny.
> 
> Back approximately 10 years ago there was this huge bruh-haha in Georgia about removing the stars and bars from the state flag. All the ignoramuses were screaming about "heritage". When it was pointed out to them that the stars and bars were never a battle flag the Georgia contingent in the CSA, they really had no answer. Neither did they have an answer as to why it took approximately 90 years after the civil war to adopt it as part of the state flag. Nor did they have an answer as to why, if it was about heritage, they were just as opposed to the pre 1956 version.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also, the move to prominently place the stars and bars on the state flag started in 1954. The same year as Brown vs Board overturned racial segregation in schools. But surely that was nothing more than a coincidence
Click to expand...


Yeah, that was when I parted company with the "Heritage Not Hate" crowd, when just about every one of them said that it wasn't true.  The facts disagreed with them.  I used to have a fun time with some fellow Marine friends (a couple of them dark green) randomly stopping at dives flying the Stars-n-Bars acting like we didn't know what that flag meant.


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## asterism

ABikerSailor said:


> Whenever I see that particular flag, I'm always on guard, because rednecks are dangerous, (usually) obese people with guns and opinions, with very little wisdom or common sense.
> 
> Do I stick around?  Probably not, I've a very low tolerance for racists.



The amusing thing is that I feel exactly the same way about Boston Irish Democrats.  Go figure.


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## CrusaderFrank

Mini 14 said:


>



VaYank

Democrats fleeing the Union rather than giving up their slaves


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## RadiomanATL

asterism said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny.
> 
> Back approximately 10 years ago there was this huge bruh-haha in Georgia about removing the stars and bars from the state flag. All the ignoramuses were screaming about "heritage". When it was pointed out to them that the stars and bars were never a battle flag the Georgia contingent in the CSA, they really had no answer. Neither did they have an answer as to why it took approximately 90 years after the civil war to adopt it as part of the state flag. Nor did they have an answer as to why, if it was about heritage, they were just as opposed to the pre 1956 version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, the move to prominently place the stars and bars on the state flag started in 1954. The same year as Brown vs Board overturned racial segregation in schools. But surely that was nothing more than a coincidence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, that was when I parted company with the "Heritage Not Hate" crowd, when just about every one of them said that it wasn't true.  The facts disagreed with them.  I used to have a fun time with some fellow Marine friends (a couple of them dark green) randomly stopping at dives flying the Stars-n-Bars acting like we didn't know what that flag meant.
Click to expand...


In their defense, I'm willing to bet that most really don't know the history behind it.

Which also puts lie to the "heritage" argument as well....


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## Dr.House

I like this flag:


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## jillian

asterism said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 things depending on where I see it:
> 
> 1.  Southern Heritage if displayed in a historical fashion
> 2.  Don't go into that bar if displayed randomly in public.  I'm not black, I'm worse according to the hardliner racists - I'm Catholic.
Click to expand...


yeah, but at least they won't ask to see your horns.


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## RadiomanATL

jillian said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 things depending on where I see it:
> 
> 1.  Southern Heritage if displayed in a historical fashion
> 2.  Don't go into that bar if displayed randomly in public.  I'm not black, I'm worse according to the hardliner racists - I'm Catholic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> yeah, but at least they won't ask to see your horns.
Click to expand...


Jewish people have horns?

Fuckin' teh kewl!

You guys get all the cool shit.


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## jillian

RadiomanATL said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2 things depending on where I see it:
> 
> 1.  Southern Heritage if displayed in a historical fashion
> 2.  Don't go into that bar if displayed randomly in public.  I'm not black, I'm worse according to the hardliner racists - I'm Catholic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, but at least they won't ask to see your horns.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jewish people have horns?
> 
> Fuckin' teh kewl!
> 
> You guys get all the cool shit.
Click to expand...


heh... it's a joo conspiracy. 

we have guitars, too!!


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## RadiomanATL

jillian said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, but at least they won't ask to see your horns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish people have horns?
> 
> Fuckin' teh kewl!
> 
> You guys get all the cool shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> heh... it's a joo conspiracy.
> 
> we have guitars, too!!
Click to expand...


DAMMIT!

I lose again!


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## AquaAthena

boedicca said:


> Nascar


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## xotoxi

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRX4mlFi06A[/ame]


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## ABikerSailor

RadiomanATL said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish people have horns?
> 
> Fuckin' teh kewl!
> 
> You guys get all the cool shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heh... it's a joo conspiracy.
> 
> we have guitars, too!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> DAMMIT!
> 
> I lose again!
Click to expand...


Hey Radio.    They've got rap music as well.  Ever hear of a dude named "Netenyahu"?  His song "Jerusalem" is way good!


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## jillian

ABikerSailor said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> heh... it's a joo conspiracy.
> 
> we have guitars, too!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DAMMIT!
> 
> I lose again!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Radio.    They've got rap music as well.  Ever hear of a dude named "Netenyahu"?  His song "Jerusalem" is way good!
Click to expand...


the beastie boys are jewish too!

psssst... it's Matisyahu. lol.. but he's amazing. this one's my fave

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxxuSiC4wNw[/ame]


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## jillian

RadiomanATL said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish people have horns?
> 
> Fuckin' teh kewl!
> 
> You guys get all the cool shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heh... it's a joo conspiracy.
> 
> we have guitars, too!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> DAMMIT!
> 
> I lose again!
Click to expand...


you're cool.. you can be a member of the tribe.


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## RadiomanATL

jillian said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> heh... it's a joo conspiracy.
> 
> we have guitars, too!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DAMMIT!
> 
> I lose again!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you're cool.. you can be a member of the tribe.
Click to expand...


Sweet! Can I wear war-paint too?


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## jillian

RadiomanATL said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> DAMMIT!
> 
> I lose again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you're cool.. you can be a member of the tribe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sweet! Can I wear war-paint too?
Click to expand...


if that's what rocks you. you can do a blue and white star motif.

i'll even let you use the epiphone.


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## elvis

Mini 14 said:


>



destruction of the United States.


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## RadiomanATL

jillian said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> you're cool.. you can be a member of the tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet! Can I wear war-paint too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> if that's what rocks you. you can do a blue and white star motif.
> 
> i'll even let you use the epiphone.
Click to expand...


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## xotoxi

jillian said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> DAMMIT!
> 
> I lose again!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Radio.    They've got rap music as well.  Ever hear of a dude named "Netenyahu"?  His song "Jerusalem" is way good!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the beastie boys are jewish too!
> 
> psssst... it's Matisyahu. lol.. but he's amazing. this one's my fave
Click to expand...


I thought it was Googleoryahoo.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

Mini 14 said:


> What is the first thing you think of when you look at this?



Trailer parks


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## uscitizen

First confederate national flag






Second confederate national flag






Various confederate states also had their own flags.


A trivia question, which state had both a Union and Confederate capitol at the same time?


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## Liability

Mini 14 said:


>



SOME people immediately think "RACISM!"

OTHERS immediately think:  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I tend to immediately think of the tragedy that was the Civil War.


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## JBeukema

Sunni Man said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Large glass of sweet tea, fried chicken, fried okra, and corn bread.
Click to expand...

I like corn bread with jalapeños and cheese in  it


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## JBeukema

asterism said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the idiots who fly that flag today are retards who don't even know what it is- and isn't. Many of them think it was the flag of the CSA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny.
> 
> Back approximately 10 years ago there was this huge bruh-haha in Georgia about removing the stars and bars from the state flag. All the ignoramuses were screaming about "heritage". When it was pointed out to them that the stars and bars were never a battle flag the Georgia contingent in the CSA, they really had no answer. Neither did they have an answer as to why it took approximately 90 years after the civil war to adopt it as part of the state flag. Nor did they have an answer as to why, if it was about heritage, they were just as opposed to the pre 1956 version.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I remember that and it was funny.  Then I remember the meltdown from that faction when Perdue didn't do as they claimed he promised, put the flag up for a referendum.  They vowed that he would lose re-election in a landslide and well we all know how that worked out.
> 
> But there is absolutely nothing racist about people displaying it in reference to Civil War relatives or Southern Heritage and Agricultural advancements.
Click to expand...

Southern agricultural advancements? You mean when they learned how to hold your wrist to crack the whip hardest?


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## JBeukema

RadiomanATL said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, the move to prominently place the stars and bars on the state flag started in 1954. The same year as Brown vs Board overturned racial segregation in schools. But surely that was nothing more than a coincidence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that was when I parted company with the "Heritage Not Hate" crowd, when just about every one of them said that it wasn't true.  The facts disagreed with them.  I used to have a fun time with some fellow Marine friends (a couple of them dark green) randomly stopping at dives flying the Stars-n-Bars acting like we didn't know what that flag meant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In their defense, I'm willing to bet that most really don't know the history behind it.
> 
> Which also puts lie to the "heritage" argument as well....
Click to expand...



Not. Stupidity and ignorance is heritage- hell, it defines many families in trailer parks everywhere.


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## JBeukema

jillian said:


> it's a joo conspiracy.


'
Jill works for Soros?


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## JBeukema

ABikerSailor said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> heh... it's a joo conspiracy.
> 
> we have guitars, too!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DAMMIT!
> 
> I lose again!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey Radio.    They've got rap music as well.  Ever hear of a dude named "Netenyahu"?  His song "Jerusalem" is way good!
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you mean Matisyahu

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12qtTuvWQSI[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChV5BZ8SmS0[/ame]


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## editec

Mini 14 said:


>


 

The first thing I think of when I see this?

Treason.


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## asterism

RadiomanATL said:


> asterism said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny.
> 
> Back approximately 10 years ago there was this huge bruh-haha in Georgia about removing the stars and bars from the state flag. All the ignoramuses were screaming about "heritage". When it was pointed out to them that the stars and bars were never a battle flag the Georgia contingent in the CSA, they really had no answer. Neither did they have an answer as to why it took approximately 90 years after the civil war to adopt it as part of the state flag. Nor did they have an answer as to why, if it was about heritage, they were just as opposed to the pre 1956 version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember that and it was funny.  Then I remember the meltdown from that faction when Perdue didn't do as they claimed he promised, put the flag up for a referendum.  They vowed that he would lose re-election in a landslide and well all know how that worked out.
> 
> But there is absolutely nothing racist about people displaying it in reference to Civil War relatives or Southern Heritage and Agricultural advancements.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, Perdue did put the flag up for a referendum of some sort (that I remember), but the version with the stars and bars wasn't one of the ones that could be chosen.
> 
> He "kept" his promise to the letter of it, but didn't keep it at the same time.
Click to expand...


And that was the right thing to do.  It's a shame he gets no credit from the south Fulton County contingent, but they're mostly race hucksters anyway.


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## Truthmatters

One word comes to my mind EVERY time I see that flag.

*SLAVERY*


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## Mini 14

On an unrelated note, I am a picker myself. I have always been fond of Martins and Yairis, but a few months ago a customer brought a Taylor 812 into the shop and borrowed $500. Of course, he lost it.

And now, I'm done on guitars. Sweetest sounding, best playing thing I've ever held. Sold everything else except one Martin and one Yairi, but that Taylor is an amazing guitar. I think it plays itself.


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## JWBooth

Mini 14 said:


>


1. Army of Tennessee/Confederate Naval Ensign;
2. Another idiot who makes it harder on everybody who struggles to present history accurately;
3. Somebody spent the money to get a sewn cotton flag as opposed to a Chinese poly print one.


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## Mini 14

JWBooth said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Army of Tennessee/Confederate Naval Ensign;
> 2. Another idiot who makes it harder on everybody who struggles to present history accurately;
> 3. Somebody spent the money to get a sewn cotton flag as opposed to a Chinese poly print one.
Click to expand...


For the record, and not that it matters, that flag is 110 years old, and was last flown by living veterans of the Civil War at a UCV Post in the 20's. When I searched for an image in the OP, I looked for a "real" flag, and not a copy. Not sure why   

You can buy it for $695.


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## Sunni Man

Mini 14 said:


>




Honor, Duty, Patriotism, and personal Sacrifice


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## Granny

The Confederate Flag is a lot of things to a lot of people - and not all necessarily negative.  I was never much of a history buff, but there's been a lot of stretching of truth about the Civil War and how and why it began.  Slavery was an add-on issue that exploded into the "ONLY" reason for the War and has essentially obscured the other reasons.

Good, bad or indifferent - the Confederate Flag is a symbol of an era in America's history.  We can't change the past and should not erase all things symbolic of that past.

You've got your "redneck" element that refuses to put it behind them and continues to hang on to their ignorance and intolerance of blacks.  Consider the source - not the entire population of the South.

NASCAR?  Probably considered redneck - but it's far from it.  It's a national "sport" enjoyed and followed by a broad spectrum of our population, most of whom don't give a damn one way or another about the Civil War or the Confederate Flag.  NASCAR came about from the driving skills, souping up of vehicles, other "tricks of the trade" of moonshiners trying to outrun and outwit Revenuers on "Thunder Road."  The thrill of speed ultimately turned into a race.

Those who are history buffs might like books written by Douglas Southall Freeman.  I'm attaching one link I found - maybe there will be a chapter in his biography of Robert E. Lee that might capture someone's fancy.

Robert E. Lee (The Biography by Douglas Freeman, 1934)


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## Si modo

Mini 14 said:


>


It depends on the context.

If I see it on a historic site, a southern home, or a public building in one of the states involved in the Civil War in the South, I see it as having historical significance.

If I see it on the back of a pick-up truck, I avoid that truck and that person as best as I can.  Hell, I'm a freakin' Northerner (means to them a N-loving person) and papist (by birth only).


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## Truthmatters

It is the symbol of slavery.

Anyone who tries to tell you its about history is right.

ITS about the history of slavery in the US.

Why any group of people would hang onto a symbol that represents a NATIONAL SHAME is beyond me.


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## Si modo

The truth of the matter is that the Civil war was about more than just slavery.

For some, though, the truth doesn't matter.


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## Mad Scientist

Mini 14 said:


>


States Rights.


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## Article 15

Mini 14 said:


>



Racist.


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## Truthmatters

Si modo said:


> The truth of the matter is that the Civil war was about more than just slavery.
> 
> For some, though, the truth doesn't matter.



Without slavery it would have NEVER taken place.

This flag is internationally recognised with the world slavery.

You are the one on the wrong side of history.

No war has JUST ONE CAUSE.

This wars main cause was slavery.

Quit trying to rewrite history


----------



## Sunni Man

Truthmatters said:


> This wars main cause was slavery.


No, it was about states rights.

Slavery was just a side show.


----------



## Mr Natural

I see people who were used as pawns and fed a line a crap (that most of them didn't understand) by other well heeled people who wanted to maintian their lives of oppulence and free labor and didn't give a crap about who sacrificed as long as they didn't have to.


----------



## Granny

Truthmatters said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truth of the matter is that the Civil war was about more than just slavery.
> 
> For some, though, the truth doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without slavery it would have NEVER taken place.
> 
> This flag is internationally recognised with the world slavery.
> 
> You are the one on the wrong side of history.
> 
> No war has JUST ONE CAUSE.
> 
> This wars main cause was slavery.
> 
> Quit trying to rewrite history
Click to expand...


If truth matters you shouldn't be posting at all.  Go read a history book.


----------



## Wry Catcher

Article 15 said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Racist.
Click to expand...


Hate.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Mini 14 said:


> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Army of Tennessee/Confederate Naval Ensign;
> 2. Another idiot who makes it harder on everybody who struggles to present history accurately;
> 3. Somebody spent the money to get a sewn cotton flag as opposed to a Chinese poly print one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the record, and not that it matters, that flag is 110 years old, and was last flown by living veterans of the Civil War at a UCV Post in the 20's. When I searched for an image in the OP, I looked for a "real" flag, and not a copy. Not sure why
> 
> You can buy it for $695.
Click to expand...


And that is a Battle flag, it is square instead of rectangular.....


----------



## JWBooth

Mini 14 said:


> JWBooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Army of Tennessee/Confederate Naval Ensign;
> 2. Another idiot who makes it harder on everybody who struggles to present history accurately;
> 3. Somebody spent the money to get a sewn cotton flag as opposed to a Chinese poly print one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For the record, and not that it matters, that flag is 110 years old, and was last flown by living veterans of the Civil War at a UCV Post in the 20's. When I searched for an image in the OP, I looked for a "real" flag, and not a copy. Not sure why
> 
> You can buy it for $695.
Click to expand...

The price is a little steep for me, for one that is that old it is in amazingly good shape.


----------



## Truthmatters

Granny said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The truth of the matter is that the Civil war was about more than just slavery.
> 
> For some, though, the truth doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without slavery it would have NEVER taken place.
> 
> This flag is internationally recognised with the world slavery.
> 
> You are the one on the wrong side of history.
> 
> No war has JUST ONE CAUSE.
> 
> This wars main cause was slavery.
> 
> Quit trying to rewrite history
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If truth matters you shouldn't be posting at all.  Go read a history book.
Click to expand...


Now tell us how the civil war would have happened without slavery?


You cant because its not true.

You dont get to rewrite histroy for political purposes


----------



## SFC Ollie

Truthmatters said:


> Granny said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without slavery it would have NEVER taken place.
> 
> This flag is internationally recognised with the world slavery.
> 
> You are the one on the wrong side of history.
> 
> No war has JUST ONE CAUSE.
> 
> This wars main cause was slavery.
> 
> Quit trying to rewrite history
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If truth matters you shouldn't be posting at all.  Go read a history book.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now tell us how the civil war would have happened without slavery?
> 
> 
> You cant because its not true.
> 
> You dont get to rewrite histroy for political purposes
Click to expand...


You really do need to read some history, tell us (for example) just how many black slave owners were there?


----------



## JWBooth

SFC Ollie said:


> And that is a Battle flag, it is square instead of rectangular.....



That is one of those "yes, but" issues.
The regularly adopted St. Andrew's Cross battle flags in the Army of Northern Virginia were square, as they were in the Armies of Tennessee and Trans-Mississippi.  The rectangular flag was to be a naval flag.  Yet the rectangular flag was often used in the Army of Tennessee as well.  General Polk's corps adopted a rectangular St. Michael's Cross design in reversed colors.  The battle flag in the Army of the Trans-Mississippi was square and the colors reversed.

The John McNeill Camp of the Sons of Confederate Veterans has a pretty good site with info on the various flags:
Confederate Flags


----------



## Truthmatters

SFC Ollie said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Granny said:
> 
> 
> 
> If truth matters you shouldn't be posting at all.  Go read a history book.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now tell us how the civil war would have happened without slavery?
> 
> 
> You cant because its not true.
> 
> You dont get to rewrite histroy for political purposes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You really do need to read some history, tell us (for example) just how many black slave owners were there?
Click to expand...


Its you how are trying to rewrite the history.

If slavery had NOT exsisted in the states the civil war would have NEVER taken place.


LYING about history for political purposes is NOT acceptable in any educated society


----------



## masquerade

yankee haters

state's rights

the need to hold onto the past


----------



## Truthmatters

No one gets to rewrite history for political purposes.

The right has been trying to do it for decades now.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Truthmatters said:


> Its you how are trying to rewrite the history.
> If slavery had NOT exsisted in the states the civil war would have NEVER taken place. LYING about history for political purposes is NOT acceptable in any educated society


The Civil War didn't start because of slavery. LYING about history for political purposes is NOT acceptable in any educated society. 
Do a little research about the Civil War, you may _unwillingly_ learn something. Look up "Indian Slave Owners" and how Morgan Freeman got his name just as a start.


----------



## Truthmatters

The civil war was about slavery and if slavery had not exsisted in the US at the time the civil war would not have happened.

Outline for us how it would have happened without the slavery component?


----------



## WillowTree

Mini 14 said:


> No one is going to hurt my feelings on this one, so don't hold back (I'm Cherokee, so I think ALL of you are fucked in the head, regardless of which side you were on).


----------



## SFC Ollie

Once again Truthmatters reminds us that truth does not matter.


----------



## Mad Scientist

Truthmatters said:


> The civil war was about slavery and if slavery had not exsisted in the US at the time the civil war would not have happened. Outline for us how it would have happened without the slavery component?


I will outline events *as they actually happened,* not on your *historically revisionist wishful thinking*:
Time Line of The Civil War - 1861


> *March 1861 -- Lincoln's Inauguration.*  At Lincoln's inauguration on March 4, *the new president said he had no  plans to end slavery in those states where it already existed*, but he  also said he would not accept secession.  He hoped to resolve the  national crisis without warfare.


Let's review shall we?
1. Lincoln elected
2. Lincoln not interested in ending slavery.
3. Lincoln resists states seceeding.
4. Shots fired at Fort Sumpter not related to slavery but States Rights.

In summation: *The Civil War would have happened even without the  slavery* *component*. Maybe not at the exact same time or manner but it *would* have happened.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

I remember learning in school that the Civil War wasn't about slavery and that was in Boston Public Schools which is filled with commies and Marxists like Liesmatter


----------



## Truthmatters

January 1861 -- The South Secedes.
When Abraham Lincoln, a known opponent of slavery, was elected president, the South Carolina legislature perceived a threat


The first fucking line of your timeline link asshole


----------



## Truthmatters

I love it when facts begin to matter


----------



## Jeremy

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ysuG2O0zw&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
​


----------



## Truthmatters

The right will NEVER get away with the rewrites of history they are attempting.


----------



## Truthmatters

Everytime you people LIE about history and science you will meet cold hard facts.

Get used to it


----------



## Truthmatters

I win you lost


----------



## Jeremy

Truthmatters said:


> I win you lost



Who the fuck are you talking too?


----------



## Truthmatters

The people who are trying to rewrite history for political purposes


----------



## Jeremy

Truthmatters said:


> The people who are trying to rewrite history for political purposes



That really narrows it down. 

Let me rephrase the question. Who aren't you talking to?


----------



## Truthmatters

Read the fucking thread you dumb assed hack


----------



## Ravi

Sunni Man said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> This wars main cause was slavery.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it was about states rights.
> 
> Slavery was just a side show.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]But not  to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow  me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution  has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our  peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper  status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate  cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his  forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union  would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a  realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon  which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas  entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the  formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the  African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in  principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew  not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that  day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the  institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not  incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time.  The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the  institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly  urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the  common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally  wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This  was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon  it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew." [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Our  new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its  foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that  the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to  the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new  government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this  great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow  in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various  departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear  me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally  admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still  clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who  still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly  denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the  mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the  most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is  forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with  the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the  negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal  privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were  correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise  being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having  heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and  ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect,  that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this  subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully  against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That  the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery  as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle  founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I  made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately,  succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our  institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as  impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it  was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he,  and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They  were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal. 
[/SIZE][/FONT]


Cornerstone Speech by Alexander H. Stephens


----------



## Truthmatters

you see your rewrites of history will not be allowed to stand in the face of facts.


You have been warned so pursue your lies at your own risk.


----------



## Jeremy

truthmatters said:


> read the fucking thread you dumb assed hack


----------



## Sunni Man

The "War of Northern Aggression" (Civil War) was clearly about "States Rights"

The Confederates believed in the U.S. Constitution as written out by the Founding Fathers.


The people of the Northern Union were much like the lefty liberals today.

Who believe the Constitution was written on a sheet of rubber and can be pulled and streched any which way to suit their current agenda.


----------



## Truthmatters

Rewrites of histroy will not be allowed for poltical purposes.


You will lose this fight EVERYTIME.

The civil war would have never taken place if slavery had not exsisted in the US at the time.

It was about slavery


----------



## Truthmatters

Truthmatters said:


> January 1861 -- The South Secedes.
> When Abraham Lincoln, a known opponent of slavery, was elected president, the South Carolina legislature perceived a threat
> 
> 
> The first fucking line of your timeline link asshole



Lets remember what you idiots are claiming and failing miserably to achieve


----------



## Jeremy

Truthmatters said:


> Rewrites of histroy will not be allowed for poltical purposes.
> 
> 
> You will lose this fight EVERYTIME.
> 
> The civil war would have never taken place if slavery had not exsisted in the US at the time.
> 
> *It was about slavery*



*NO SHIT!!! REALLY?!?!?*


----------



## Truthmatters

grow the fuck up


----------



## WillowTree

Sunni Man said:


> The "War of Northern Aggression" (Civil War) was clearly about "States Rights"
> 
> The Confederates believed in the U.S. Constitution as written out by the Founding Fathers.
> 
> 
> *The people of the Northern Union were much like the lefty liberals today.*
> Who believe the Constitution was written on a sheet of rubber and can be pulled and streched any which way to suit their current agenda.


----------



## Jeremy

Don't deny the fact, DownssyndromeMatters, that the state's rights argument is also valid. But saying that it was one _without_ the other is being disingenuous at best. It was over the issue of a *state's right* to have *slavery* be legal. 

END OF FUCKING ARGUMENT!!!!!


----------



## WillowTree

Slavery. There is a long long long long long history of slavery and it did not begin and end in the United States of America. Remember when those of Northern Egypt enslaved the Jewish people? You don't hear anyone bitching about that. Wonder why? It befuddles me.


----------



## Truthmatters

The civil war was fought because of slavery.


No rewrites


----------



## WillowTree

Jeremy said:


> Don't deny the fact, DownssyndromeMatters, that the state's rights argument is also valid. But saying that it was one _without_ the other is being disingenuous at best. It was over the issue of a *state's right* to have *slavery* be legal.
> 
> END OF FUCKING ARGUMENT!!!!!



That war ended in 1865. Libruls still hate the Southern people to this very day. By that logic they should hate the Egyptians too don'tchyathink?


----------



## Jeremy

Truthmatters said:


> grow the fuck up


----------



## WillowTree

Truthmatters said:


> The civil war was fought because of slavery.
> 
> 
> No rewrites



You must totally loathe the people of North Africa.


----------



## Truthmatters

This is about history willow.

take your insane bullshit to another thread


----------



## Jeremy

WillowTree said:


> Slavery. There is a long long long long long history of slavery and it did not begin and end in the United States of America. Remember when those of Northern Egypt enslaved the Jewish people? You don't hear anyone bitching about that. Wonder why? It befuddles me.



Left : "Slavery = racism = America" [/end] (nothing more, nothing less)


----------



## Ravi

Sunni Man said:


> The "War of Northern Aggression" (Civil War) was clearly about "States Rights"
> 
> The Confederates believed in the U.S. Constitution as written out by the Founding Fathers.
> 
> 
> The people of the Northern Union were much like the lefty liberals today.
> 
> Who believe the Constitution was written on a sheet of rubber and can be pulled and streched any which way to suit their current agenda.


Suuuure...and Mo is a pedo.


----------



## Sunni Man

Any one who thinks the average Northerner left his home and family to fight and die to Free the "negro" is totally deluded.


----------



## Truthmatters

History will NOT bend for your political purposes.

Give it up , you will NEVER win


----------



## 007

Truthmatters said:


> This is about history willow.
> 
> take your insane bullshit to another thread



Speaking of insane bull shit... there's no one on this board that spreads more incoherent bull shit than you, and in this thread, you sound like you've already polished off a twelve pack of beer and half a bottle of cheap vodka.

Please, shut the fuck up and go away you pathetic piece of shit.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Jeremy said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> I win you lost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who the fuck are you talking too?
Click to expand...


The voices.


----------



## Truthmatters

ram you head back up your ass.

The civil war was caused by slavery.

The only people who deny this fact are the cons who cant deal with reailty and retain their failed ideas and beleive in facts


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Truthmatters said:


> Rewrites of histroy will not be allowed for poltical purposes.



The left does it all the time.


----------



## hortysir

Another tired-assed bash the south thread.

Hey, you asked. I was being honest


----------



## Truthmatters

Nope the left does not try and rewrite history.

No this is about truth and history and not about bashing anyone.

Now will any one of you tell us how the civil war woudl have happened if salvery was not being precticed in the US?


----------



## WillowTree

Truthmatters said:


> This is about history willow.
> 
> take your insane bullshit to another thread



So you can't handle History or the Truth? Got it.


----------



## Truthmatters

Then explain it to me willow.

How does the civil war happened in the US without slavery?

Tell us all why you believe the civil war was not about slavery?


----------



## Foxfyre

Well, since the OP asked. . . .

I was born and raised in the South and I was rarely exposed to racism or people who were unkind to people of other races and I was never exposed to anybody who condoned slavery. . . .so. . . .

To me that Confederate flag has always represented a time in U.S. history, a certain independent spirit, and a tragic war in which many wrongs were done on both sides and in which much nobility was demonstrated on both sides.

More recently it conjures up some of the images some of you have raised:  great southern cooking unrivaled anywhere, Nascar, independence, states rights, and respect for historical context.  I still do not think racism or racists or slavery when I see that flag.

And finally, since I've been participating in threads like this, I associate the flag with intolerance and misunderstanding and historical ignorance from those who will not allow anybody to appreciate it in any context other than the most negative (racism, slavery etc.)

. . . .since you asked. . . .


----------



## Skull Pilot

Mullet wearing pick up driving bud light drinking red necks who talk funny.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

Mini 14 said:


>



1. Racist
2. UNamerican
3. Rednecks
4. Makes my south look bad......


----------



## Truthmatters

This flag is the flag of slavery in the US


----------



## hortysir

Truthmatters said:


> This flag is the flag of slavery in the US


How many slave ships flew that flag?
Talk about somebody that can't let go....


----------



## Foxfyre

I think many here would benefit from reading an honest history of the Civil War and why it was fought and the results that it produced.  Here is a pretty good concise history for anybody who is willing to look past the politically correct and/or leftwing indoctrination on this:

A Jeffersonian View of the Civil War


----------



## Jeremy

Skull Pilot said:


> Mullet wearing pick up driving bud light drinking red necks who talk funny.



What the hell is wrong with Bud Light? 

I think you mean PBR.


----------



## Mini 14

Truthmatters said:


> Nope the left does not try and rewrite history.
> 
> No this is about truth and history and not about bashing anyone.
> 
> Now will any one of you tell us how the civil war woudl have happened if salvery was not being precticed in the US?



How about a little "truth and history" when you look at this one:






What's the "true story" behind that one?

(Here's a hint......it has nothing to do with "left or right" but everything to do with Americans).

Is there a way out of this one that doesn't make you look like a complete hypocrite?


----------



## ABikerSailor

Foxfyre said:


> Well, since the OP asked. . . .
> 
> I was born and raised in the South and I was rarely exposed to racism or people who were unkind to people of other races and I was never exposed to anybody who condoned slavery. . . .so. . . .
> 
> To me that Confederate flag has always represented a time in U.S. history, a certain independent spirit, and a tragic war in which many wrongs were done on both sides and in which much nobility was demonstrated on both sides.
> 
> More recently it conjures up some of the images some of you have raised:  great southern cooking unrivaled anywhere, Nascar, independence, states rights, and respect for historical context.  I still do not think racism or racists or slavery when I see that flag.
> 
> And finally, since I've been participating in threads like this, I associate the flag with intolerance and misunderstanding and historical ignorance from those who will not allow anybody to appreciate it in any context other than the most negative (racism, slavery etc.)
> 
> . . . .since you asked. . . .



When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms.  Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black.  I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.

I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County.  And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks.  Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.

Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.

Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country.


----------



## Foxfyre

ABikerSailor said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the OP asked. . . .
> 
> I was born and raised in the South and I was rarely exposed to racism or people who were unkind to people of other races and I was never exposed to anybody who condoned slavery. . . .so. . . .
> 
> To me that Confederate flag has always represented a time in U.S. history, a certain independent spirit, and a tragic war in which many wrongs were done on both sides and in which much nobility was demonstrated on both sides.
> 
> More recently it conjures up some of the images some of you have raised:  great southern cooking unrivaled anywhere, Nascar, independence, states rights, and respect for historical context.  I still do not think racism or racists or slavery when I see that flag.
> 
> And finally, since I've been participating in threads like this, I associate the flag with intolerance and misunderstanding and historical ignorance from those who will not allow anybody to appreciate it in any context other than the most negative (racism, slavery etc.)
> 
> . . . .since you asked. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms.  Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black.  I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.
> 
> I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County.  And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks.  Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.
> 
> Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.
> 
> Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country.
Click to expand...


Maybe in the company you kept.  Not in the company I kept.  The worst incidents of racism, bigotry, and homophobia I have ever witnessed were north of the Mason Dixon line.


----------



## Mr Natural

ABikerSailor said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the OP asked. . . .
> 
> I was born and raised in the South and I was rarely exposed to racism or people who were unkind to people of other races and I was never exposed to anybody who condoned slavery. . . .so. . . .
> 
> To me that Confederate flag has always represented a time in U.S. history, a certain independent spirit, and a tragic war in which many wrongs were done on both sides and in which much nobility was demonstrated on both sides.
> 
> More recently it conjures up some of the images some of you have raised:  great southern cooking unrivaled anywhere, Nascar, independence, states rights, and respect for historical context.  I still do not think racism or racists or slavery when I see that flag.
> 
> And finally, since I've been participating in threads like this, I associate the flag with intolerance and misunderstanding and historical ignorance from those who will not allow anybody to appreciate it in any context other than the most negative (racism, slavery etc.)
> 
> . . . .since you asked. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms.  Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black.  I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.
> 
> I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County.  And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks.  Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.
> 
> Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.
> 
> *Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country*.
Click to expand...



I went through "A" school in Millington in late 1969.

Sometimes we'd head down to Southhaven, Mississippi to drink.  I remember seeing signs on some of the establishments that said "No *******, No Sailors".

Yes, the south is a very racist area of this country.  But then again, how would you feel if you fought a war to prove you were better than slaves and lost?


----------



## Ravi

Mr Clean said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the OP asked. . . .
> 
> I was born and raised in the South and I was rarely exposed to racism or people who were unkind to people of other races and I was never exposed to anybody who condoned slavery. . . .so. . . .
> 
> To me that Confederate flag has always represented a time in U.S. history, a certain independent spirit, and a tragic war in which many wrongs were done on both sides and in which much nobility was demonstrated on both sides.
> 
> More recently it conjures up some of the images some of you have raised:  great southern cooking unrivaled anywhere, Nascar, independence, states rights, and respect for historical context.  I still do not think racism or racists or slavery when I see that flag.
> 
> And finally, since I've been participating in threads like this, I associate the flag with intolerance and misunderstanding and historical ignorance from those who will not allow anybody to appreciate it in any context other than the most negative (racism, slavery etc.)
> 
> . . . .since you asked. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms.  Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black.  I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.
> 
> I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County.  And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks.  Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.
> 
> Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.
> 
> *Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I went through "A" school in Millington in late 1969.
> 
> Sometimes we'd head down to Southhaven, Mississippi to drink.  I remember seeing signs on some of the establishments that said "No *******, No Sailors".
> 
> Yes, the south is a very racist area of this country.  But then again, how would you feel if you fought a war to prove you were better than slaves and lost?
Click to expand...

Never thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

I'm from the south, Miami, FL.

EVERYONE I know from the south is NOT racist.  Then again, I subscribe to the "new south" IE the big cities like Atlanta, Houston, Miami, etc. where minorities like me flourish and there's tolerance.  But the people I've met from the country aint racist either, just "traditional"

All the white dudes I know down there aint racist also just real laid back, humble, cool folk.


----------



## Ravi

Miami is not "the South"


----------



## JBeukema

Sunni Man said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> This wars main cause was slavery.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it was about states rights.
> 
> Slavery was just a side show.   [/quote
> A side show that was citied by the secessionists in their writings when they explained their reason for ceding...
Click to expand...


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

Ravi said:


> Miami is not "the South"



Not the traditional, commonly thought of south, but yes, it is.


----------



## Sunni Man

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Miami is not "the South"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the traditional, commonly thought of south, but yes, it is.
Click to expand...

Miami is a cesspool and has Nothing to do with the traditional South.


----------



## ABikerSailor

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Miami is not "the South"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the traditional, commonly thought of south, but yes, it is.
Click to expand...


The only thing "south" about Miami is geography.

Otherwise?  It's just an overgrown rest home for NYC.


----------



## JBeukema

Jeremy said:


> Don't deny the fact, DownssyndromeMatters, that the state's rights argument is also valid. But saying that it was one _without_ the other is being disingenuous at best. It was over the issue of a *state's right* to have *slavery* be legal.
> 
> END OF FUCKING ARGUMENT!!!!!


If it were just about states rights, then why didn't the Northern States secede when they were exercising their right and power of interposition to fight federal abuse in the form of the fugitive slave act?


Why was it only slavery that was worth fighting for? And only slave states that thought 'states rights' mattered?


And why did they declare slavery and not 'states' rights' as casus belli for war?


----------



## JBeukema

Truthmatters said:


> ram you head back up your ass.
> 
> The civil war was caused by slavery.
> 
> The only people who deny this fact are the cons who cant deal with reailty and retain their failed ideas and beleive in facts


----------



## Si modo

Foxfyre said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the OP asked. . . .
> 
> I was born and raised in the South and I was rarely exposed to racism or people who were unkind to people of other races and I was never exposed to anybody who condoned slavery. . . .so. . . .
> 
> To me that Confederate flag has always represented a time in U.S. history, a certain independent spirit, and a tragic war in which many wrongs were done on both sides and in which much nobility was demonstrated on both sides.
> 
> More recently it conjures up some of the images some of you have raised:  great southern cooking unrivaled anywhere, Nascar, independence, states rights, and respect for historical context.  I still do not think racism or racists or slavery when I see that flag.
> 
> And finally, since I've been participating in threads like this, I associate the flag with intolerance and misunderstanding and historical ignorance from those who will not allow anybody to appreciate it in any context other than the most negative (racism, slavery etc.)
> 
> . . . .since you asked. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms.  Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black.  I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.
> 
> I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County.  And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks.  Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.
> 
> Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.
> 
> Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Maybe in the company you kept.  Not in the company I kept.  The worst incidents of racism, bigotry, and homophobia I have ever witnessed were north of the Mason Dixon line.
Click to expand...

I've not only been to, but have lived, in many regions of the USA - north, south, east, west, midwest, Texas (a whole nuther blahblahblah) - and the most racist place I have ever lived, by far, is the Detroit area.  No contest.  I was stunned at the amount of racism there, to be honest.


----------



## JBeukema

Mr Clean said:


> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, since the OP asked. . . .
> 
> I was born and raised in the South and I was rarely exposed to racism or people who were unkind to people of other races and I was never exposed to anybody who condoned slavery. . . .so. . . .
> 
> To me that Confederate flag has always represented a time in U.S. history, a certain independent spirit, and a tragic war in which many wrongs were done on both sides and in which much nobility was demonstrated on both sides.
> 
> More recently it conjures up some of the images some of you have raised:  great southern cooking unrivaled anywhere, Nascar, independence, states rights, and respect for historical context.  I still do not think racism or racists or slavery when I see that flag.
> 
> And finally, since I've been participating in threads like this, I associate the flag with intolerance and misunderstanding and historical ignorance from those who will not allow anybody to appreciate it in any context other than the most negative (racism, slavery etc.)
> 
> . . . .since you asked. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms.  Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black.  I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.
> 
> I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County.  And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks.  Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.
> 
> Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.
> 
> *Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I went through "A" school in Millington in late 1969.
> 
> Sometimes we'd head down to Southhaven, Mississippi to drink.  I remember seeing signs on some of the establishments that said "No *******, No Sailors".
> 
> Yes, the south is a very racist area of this country.  But then again, how would you feel if you fought a war to prove you were better than slaves and lost?
Click to expand...

You can find assholes, racists, and racists assholes anywhere you go...


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

ABikerSailor said:


> (R)IGHTeous 1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ravi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Miami is not "the South"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the traditional, commonly thought of south, but yes, it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only thing "south" about Miami is geography.
> 
> Otherwise?  It's just an overgrown rest home for NYC.
Click to expand...


Lil Cuba works better.


----------



## Sunni Man

Si modo said:


> I've not only been to, but have lived, in many regions of the USA - north, south, east, west, midwest, Texas (a whole nuther blahblahblah) - and the most racist place I have ever lived, by far, is the Detroit area.  No contest.  I was stunned at the amount of racism there, to be honest.


I lived in Boston for awhile. 

The amount of racism there was off the scale!

I heard more racist comments in a just a few months. 

Than I had ever heard in all of my years growing up and working in the South.

But yet, the average lefty liberal Bostonian person thinks the South is totally racist.

And that they are the most non racist tolerant people on the face of the earth..

Go figure.


----------



## MaggieMae

Mini 14 said:


>



The rebel flag flown during the Civil War. Sometimes a picture is just a picture, and an old flag is just an old flag. Unless you're looking to start a fight in 2010, that is.


----------



## Mini 14

The elephant in the room:

The silence is deafening


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

ABikerSailor said:


> When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms.  Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black.  I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.
> 
> I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County.  And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks.  Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.
> 
> Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.
> 
> Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country.



Yeah, 40 years ago.  Today it's nothing like you described.  I've lived here for four years and the amount of bigotry I've seen here is no more or less than what I saw growing up in Boston.


----------



## Dont Taz Me Bro

Mr Clean said:


> I went through "A" school in Millington in late 1969.
> 
> Sometimes we'd head down to Southhaven, Mississippi to drink.  I remember seeing signs on some of the establishments that said "No *******, No Sailors".
> 
> Yes, the south is a very racist area of this country.  But then again, how would you feel if you fought a war to prove you were better than slaves and lost?



Again, you're using examples from 40 years ago.  See my post above.


----------



## MaggieMae

Mini 14 said:


> The elephant in the room:
> 
> The silence is deafening



Okay, I give up. What *is* this one (since you failed to tell us in your link)?


----------



## Mini 14

MaggieMae said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The elephant in the room:
> 
> The silence is deafening
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I give up. What *is* this one (since you failed to tell us in your link)?
Click to expand...


That's part of the point.

No one even recognizes a legitimate reminder of true hatred, attempted genocide, and indefensible aggression and thievery.

It is the Flag of the Cherokee Nation.

The US (ALL of the US, not the South, or the North) tried to exterminate them, then stole their land, tried to kill them again on the Trail of Tears, and imprisoned them in Oklahoma. No one blinked an eye.

But those darn Southerners and their slaves were really bad people!!!

The hypocrisy is laughable.


----------



## MaggieMae

Mini 14 said:


> MaggieMae said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The elephant in the room:
> 
> The silence is deafening
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I give up. What *is* this one (since you failed to tell us in your link)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's part of the point.
> 
> No one even recognizes a legitimate reminder of true hatred, attempted genocide, and indefensible aggression and thievery.
> 
> It is the Flag of the Cherokee Nation.
> 
> The US (ALL of the US, not the South, or the North) tried to exterminate them, then stole their land, tried to kill them again on the Trail of Tears, and imprisoned them in Oklahoma. No one blinked an eye.
> 
> But those darn Southerners and their slaves were really bad people!!!
> 
> The hypocrisy is laughable.
Click to expand...


Thank you for the information. I think by the time the country began acting more like nation builders and less like usurpers who happened to practice genocide, it should have been a given that the kind of inequality practiced against Africans would no longer be tolerated. But it was.


----------



## Foxfyre

Si modo said:


> Foxfyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ABikerSailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I was stationed in Meridian MS for "A" school, I went out to a bar with a black friend of mine called "L.A." (it's where he was from), and because we were still only 6 months in, we had to wear our uniforms.  Well, walking into a bar called "Pott's Place", I walked in first, and then the doorman told L.A. that he couldn't come in because he was black.  I argued with the idiot about 5 minutes about us being service men, but because L.A. was black, we were unable to get in.
> 
> I was also stationed in Millington TN for 4 years, and lived 7 miles north of the base in a place called Tipton County.  And yes, all the neighbors that I had up there were racist pricks.  Matter of fact, there weren't ANY black people that I met in Tipton County.
> 
> Was also stationed in Jacksonville FL, and saw many racist bullshit things done by the civvies there as well.
> 
> Nope, sorry, but the south is a very racist area of this country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe in the company you kept.  Not in the company I kept.  The worst incidents of racism, bigotry, and homophobia I have ever witnessed were north of the Mason Dixon line.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've not only been to, but have lived, in many regions of the USA - north, south, east, west, midwest, Texas (a whole nuther blahblahblah) - and the most racist place I have ever lived, by far, is the Detroit area.  No contest.  I was stunned at the amount of racism there, to be honest.
Click to expand...


The thing that always amazes me is that the ones who are the first to scream RACISM when they see a Confederate flag are often the ones who are the most judgmental and hateful to their fellow members they disagree with here on USMB and probably elsewhere.

I am guessing that most if not all who don't immediately think RACISM when they see the Confederate flag are neither racist or overly intolerant of others and probably look for the good or positive in most thngs.


----------



## Sunni Man

Mini 14 said:


> That's part of the point.
> 
> No one even recognizes a legitimate reminder of true hatred, attempted genocide, and indefensible aggression and thievery.
> 
> It is the Flag of the Cherokee Nation.
> 
> The US (ALL of the US, not the South, or the North) tried to exterminate them, then stole their land, tried to kill them again on the Trail of Tears, and imprisoned them in Oklahoma. No one blinked an eye.
> 
> But those darn Southerners and their slaves were really bad people!!!
> 
> The hypocrisy is laughable.


The real hypocrisy is you and the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma.

I grew up in Oklahoma with Indian kids from several tribes. So I know the real truth about Native Americans and black slaves.

Most Americans have No idea that the Cherokees owned large plantations and had thousand of black slaves. As did several other tribes in the Indian Territory known as Oklahoma. 

*SLAVE REVOLT OF 1842*

Of the Five Civilized Tribes, the Cherokees were the largest holder of Africans as chattel slaves. *By 1860 the Cherokees had 4,600 slaves.* Many Cherokees depended on them as a bridge to white society. Full-blood Indian slave owners relied on the blacks as English interpreters and translators. Mainly, however, slaves worked on farms as laborers or in homes as maids or servants. The Cherokees feared the aspect of a slave revolt, and that is just what happened in 1842 at Webbers Falls.

On the morning of November 15 more than twenty-five slaves, mostly from the Joseph Vann plantation, revolted. They locked their masters and overseers in their homes and cabins while they slept. The slaves stole guns, horses, mules, ammunition, food and supplies. At daybreak the group, which included men, women, and children, headed toward Mexico, where slavery was illegal. In the Creek Nation the Cherokee slaves were joined by Creek slaves, bringing the group total to more than thirty-five. The fugitives fought off and killed a couple of slave hunters in the Choctaw Nation.

The Cherokee Nation sent the Cherokee Militia, under Capt. John Drew, with eighty-seven men to catch the runaways. This expedition was authorized by the Cherokee National Council in Tahlequah on November 17, 1842. The militia caught up with the slaves seven miles north of the Red River on November 28, 1842. The tired, famished fugitives offered no resistance.

The party returned to Tahlequah on December 8, 1842. Five slaves were executed, and Joseph Vann put the majority of his rebellious slaves to work on his steamboats, which worked the Arkansas, Mississippi, and Ohio Rivers. The Cherokees blamed the incident on free, armed black Seminoles who lived in close proximity to the Cherokee slaves at Fort Gibson. On December 2, 1842, the Cherokee Nation passed a law commanding all free African Americans, except former Cherokee slaves, to leave the nation.

SLAVE REVOLT OF 1842


----------



## JBeukema

Mini 14 said:


> MaggieMae said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The elephant in the room:
> 
> The silence is deafening
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I give up. What *is* this one (since you failed to tell us in your link)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's part of the point.
> 
> No one even recognizes a legitimate reminder of true hatred, attempted genocide, and indefensible aggression and thievery.
> 
> It is the Flag of the Cherokee Nation.
> 
> The US (ALL of the US, not the South, or the North) tried to exterminate them, then stole their land, tried to kill them again on the Trail of Tears, and imprisoned them in Oklahoma. No one blinked an eye.
> 
> But those darn Southerners and their slaves were really bad people!!!
> 
> The hypocrisy is laughable.
Click to expand...



O RLY?

So anyone who doesn't recognize the face of an RTLM host is a hypocrite if they condemn Hitler? 


Wrong, dimwit, what would make them a hypocrite would be if they _defended_ the acts against the natives.

So... cite where Maggie said the Trail Tears was okay.


----------



## eots

Mini 14 said:


>


*
BO AND LUKE !!!*

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8m--165r48[/ame]


----------



## eots

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s0nzsU1Wg[/ame]


----------



## Sunni Man

Here is another piece of trivia.

The Cherokee Indians fought for the South during the Civil War.

And the last Confederate General to surrender to the Union.

Was the General Stand Watie,  a Cherokee Indian who didn't surrender his Cherokee troops until June 23, 1865.

Cherokee & the Confederacy: The South, the West, and a Second Civil War


----------



## Mini 14

JBeukema said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MaggieMae said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I give up. What *is* this one (since you failed to tell us in your link)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's part of the point.
> 
> No one even recognizes a legitimate reminder of true hatred, attempted genocide, and indefensible aggression and thievery.
> 
> It is the Flag of the Cherokee Nation.
> 
> The US (ALL of the US, not the South, or the North) tried to exterminate them, then stole their land, tried to kill them again on the Trail of Tears, and imprisoned them in Oklahoma. No one blinked an eye.
> 
> But those darn Southerners and their slaves were really bad people!!!
> 
> The hypocrisy is laughable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> O RLY?
> 
> So anyone who doesn't recognize the face of an RTLM host is a hypocrite if they condemn Hitler?
> 
> 
> Wrong, dimwit, what would make them a hypocrite would be if they _defended_ the acts against the natives.
> 
> So... cite where Maggie said the Trail Tears was okay.
Click to expand...


Never said Maggie did or said anything. (In fact, Maggie was perhaps the most gracious, level-headed entrant in this discussion, even though I don't agree with everything she says).

I merely pointed out the log in your eye, and a few others. You forget that which you wish to forget, ignore that which you don't want to recognize, and condemn that which makes you feel superior.

Rock on, white man. We were here when you got here, and we'll be here when you're gone


----------



## SFC Ollie

Mini 14 said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's part of the point.
> 
> No one even recognizes a legitimate reminder of true hatred, attempted genocide, and indefensible aggression and thievery.
> 
> It is the Flag of the Cherokee Nation.
> 
> The US (ALL of the US, not the South, or the North) tried to exterminate them, then stole their land, tried to kill them again on the Trail of Tears, and imprisoned them in Oklahoma. No one blinked an eye.
> 
> But those darn Southerners and their slaves were really bad people!!!
> 
> The hypocrisy is laughable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> O RLY?
> 
> So anyone who doesn't recognize the face of an RTLM host is a hypocrite if they condemn Hitler?
> 
> 
> Wrong, dimwit, what would make them a hypocrite would be if they _defended_ the acts against the natives.
> 
> So... cite where Maggie said the Trail Tears was okay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never said Maggie did or said anything. (In fact, Maggie was perhaps the most gracious, level-headed entrant in this discussion, even though I don't agree with everything she says).
> 
> I merely pointed out the log in your eye, and a few others. You forget that which you wish to forget, ignore that which you don't want to recognize, and condemn that which makes you feel superior.
> 
> Rock on, white man. We were here when you got here, and we'll be here when you're gone
Click to expand...


There can be no doubt that the American Indians were grossly mistreated.  But that is why my Color Guard opened the grand entry for a local Pow Wow this past summer. We can at least do that much. We did decline the offer to participate in the Veterans Dance, but I did post a little of it on Youtube if you want to see it. (the dance that is, couldn't record and carry the rifle at the same time).

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMRe8L78M_8[/ame]


----------



## Againsheila

Mini 14 said:


>



The War Between the States, why?


----------



## JBeukema

Mini 14 said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's part of the point.
> 
> No one even recognizes a legitimate reminder of true hatred, attempted genocide, and indefensible aggression and thievery.
> 
> It is the Flag of the Cherokee Nation.
> 
> The US (ALL of the US, not the South, or the North) tried to exterminate them, then stole their land, tried to kill them again on the Trail of Tears, and imprisoned them in Oklahoma. No one blinked an eye.
> 
> But those darn Southerners and their slaves were really bad people!!!
> 
> The hypocrisy is laughable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> O RLY?
> 
> So anyone who doesn't recognize the face of an RTLM host is a hypocrite if they condemn Hitler?
> 
> 
> Wrong, dimwit, what would make them a hypocrite would be if they _defended_ the acts against the natives.
> 
> So... cite where Maggie said the Trail Tears was okay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Never said Maggie did or said anything.
Click to expand...



So you admit you were talking out of your ass.

Good, you're making progress.





> I merely pointed out the log in your eye



You've any evidence I didn't know what the flag was?



> You forget that which you wish to forget



Like Andersonville? Like Dresden? Can you name everyone ever slain during a Cherokee attack?





> , ignore that which you don't want to recognize, and condemn that which makes you feel superior.



You're projecting again.



> Rock on, white man.



You base this assumption on what, exactly?





> We were here when you got here, and we'll be here when you're gone



Who is 'we'? Who is 'you'?


----------



## JBeukema

Againsheila said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The War Between the States, why?
Click to expand...

The what?  When did any state(s) ever declare war against any other state(s)?

Personally, it reminds me of the Confederate War for Independence


----------



## Againsheila

SFC Ollie said:


> None of us were around to take a side. And to guess where we would have stood had we been alive then is rather hard to do. We don't know the feelings that went with the politics. I would like to say I would have fought for the Union. And if you believe in reincarnation, maybe I did.



I think I would have fought for the south.  No I don't believe they hate blacks or that the war was about slavery.  Especially considering 4 slave holding states remained with the north and their slaves weren't freed until AFTER the civil war ended.

Only 5% of our people owned slaves and of those 5%, some were black.  Yeah, I'm against slavery, but I'm in favor of states rights and right now I think our federal government has deserted us.  We're the only country in the world that allows in the low skilled to compete with our own laborers, thus keeping our wages artificially down and our unemployment up.

Worse, those people are sending those wages overseas, so it's an even bigger drain on our economy and our government doesn't just not care, they facilitate the practice.


----------



## Againsheila

JBeukema said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The War Between the States, why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The what?  When did any state(s) ever declare war against any other state(s)?
> 
> Personally, it reminds me of the Confederate War for Independence
Click to expand...


Also known as the War Between the States, and the Civil War.


----------



## Sunni Man

Againsheila said:


> Especially considering 4 slave holding states remained with the north and their slaves weren't freed until AFTER the civil war ended.


Which 4 states?


----------



## Sunni Man

Againsheila said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> The War Between the States, why?
> 
> 
> 
> The what?  When did any state(s) ever declare war against any other state(s)?
> 
> Personally, it reminds me of the Confederate War for Independence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also known as the War Between the States, and the Civil War.
Click to expand...

Better known where I come from as "The War of Northern Aggression".


----------



## Againsheila

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Especially considering 4 slave holding states remained with the north and their slaves weren't freed until AFTER the civil war ended.
> 
> 
> 
> Which 4 states?
Click to expand...


Oh Gosh, I've lost my mind and don't remember.  I think it was Rhode Island, Delaware, Kentucky and and I've forgotten the other one.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  

An interesting fact, Delaware was both the first state to outlaw slavery and the last state to outlaw slavery.  The first time they outlawed it they had major economic problems and quickly re-instituted it.


----------



## Againsheila

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> The what?  When did any state(s) ever declare war against any other state(s)?
> 
> Personally, it reminds me of the Confederate War for Independence
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also known as the War Between the States, and the Civil War.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Better known where I come from as "The War of Northern Aggression".
Click to expand...


Yep, it has as many names as it does causes.


----------



## JBeukema

Againsheila said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> The War Between the States, why?
> 
> 
> 
> The what?  When did any state(s) ever declare war against any other state(s)?
> 
> Personally, it reminds me of the Confederate War for Independence
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Also known as the War Between the States, and the Civil War.
Click to expand...

Only by people who don't know what those words mean.

No state(s) ever declared war on any other state(s), hence there has never been a war between the states

no two factions have warred for control of the United States, hence there has been no civil war here


----------



## Mini 14

JBeukema said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> O RLY?
> 
> So anyone who doesn't recognize the face of an RTLM host is a hypocrite if they condemn Hitler?
> 
> 
> Wrong, dimwit, what would make them a hypocrite would be if they _defended_ the acts against the natives.
> 
> So... cite where Maggie said the Trail Tears was okay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never said Maggie did or said anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit you were talking out of your ass.
> 
> Good, you're making progress.
> 
> You've any evidence I didn't know what the flag was?
> 
> 
> 
> Like Andersonville? Like Dresden? Can you name everyone ever slain during a Cherokee attack?
> 
> You're projecting again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rock on, white man.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You base this assumption on what, exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We were here when you got here, and we'll be here when you're gone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is 'we'? Who is 'you'?
Click to expand...


Holy shit, you like to listen to yourself talk. don't you?

"We" are the Cherokee (yes, I am Cherokee).

"You" are they who came to our land and took it from us, then act as if God put you here and you invented it or something, as if it didn't exist until you got off the boats.

Ever heard of Tsali? I am a direct descendant, so yeah, I know "a few" who died.

Look up Horseshoe Bend. That is when and where my family made a stand to what remains ours now, and where they made their way. 

Those who weren't slaughtered, that is.

As I said, rock on. We'll still be here when you're finished with yourselves.


----------



## Againsheila

Mini 14 said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never said Maggie did or said anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit you were talking out of your ass.
> 
> Good, you're making progress.
> 
> You've any evidence I didn't know what the flag was?
> 
> 
> 
> Like Andersonville? Like Dresden? Can you name everyone ever slain during a Cherokee attack?
> 
> You're projecting again.
> 
> 
> 
> You base this assumption on what, exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We were here when you got here, and we'll be here when you're gone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is 'we'? Who is 'you'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Holy shit, you like to listen to yourself talk. don't you?
> 
> "We" are the Cherokee (yes, I am Cherokee).
> 
> "You" are they who came to our land and took it from us, then act as if God put you here and you invented it or something, as if it didn't exist until you got off the boats.
> 
> Ever heard of Tsali? I am a direct descendant, so yeah, I know "a few" who died.
> 
> Look up Horseshoe Bend. That is when and where my family made a stand to what remains ours now, and where they made their way.
> 
> Those who weren't slaughtered, that is.
> 
> As I said, rock on. We'll still be here when you're finished with yourselves.
Click to expand...


No offense, but this was not "America" until the Europeans came over here and made it "America".  They may have taken land away from the Indians but if they hadn't, my guess is the Indians would still be living in their teepees or grass huts, etc.  Or maybe they would have died out as most of them were nomads who moved from place to place as they used up all the resources available.  Think "Easter Island".

Also, I don't know very many Caucasians who don't claim to have at least some Cherokee blood.  My husband is 1/32 Cherokee.  In my family we're just mutts.  We believe we either have some Indian blood or some black blood as my Grandmother was kind of dark and my Grandfather was disowned when he married her and never saw his family again until after her death.

My point is, there is no "we" and there is no "you" there is just "us".  At this point, we are all Americans, if you have a problem with that, I'm sorry but it's too late.  I think that we are all better off for the Europeans being here and making this into a major International Power.  

Then of course, there is the question of who was here first?  The so called "native Americans"?  The Vikings?  The Japanese or Chinese?  Who the heck cares at this point?  We are all here now so it's better to work together to make things right than to separate ourselves based on our ancestors.


----------



## JBeukema

Mini 14 said:


> [
> 
> "We" are the Cherokee (yes, I am Cherokee).




Interesting. Where I come from, we are all people and try to treat eachother as such. Well,most of the time, at least. I guess I'll just never understand the racist perspective. 


> "You" are they who came to our land and took it from us, then act as if God put you here and you invented it or something, as if it didn't exist until you got off the boats.



Interesting. You're sure none of your ancestors ever fought anyone else and won- and never enjoyed the spoils?

And what makes you so sure my family wasn't here before the Europeans?


----------



## JBeukema

Againsheila said:


> My point is, there is no "we" and there is no "you" there is just "us".







> Then of course, there is the question of who was here first?  The so called "native Americans"?  The Vikings?  The Japanese or Chinese?  Who the heck cares at this point?  We are all here now so it's better to work together to make things right than to separate ourselves based on our ancestors.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Mini 14 said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never said Maggie did or said anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit you were talking out of your ass.
> 
> Good, you're making progress.
> 
> You've any evidence I didn't know what the flag was?
> 
> 
> 
> Like Andersonville? Like Dresden? Can you name everyone ever slain during a Cherokee attack?
> 
> You're projecting again.
> 
> 
> 
> You base this assumption on what, exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We were here when you got here, and we'll be here when you're gone
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who is 'we'? Who is 'you'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Holy shit, you like to listen to yourself talk. don't you?
> 
> "We" are the Cherokee (yes, I am Cherokee).
> 
> "You" are they who came to our land and took it from us, then act as if God put you here and you invented it or something, as if it didn't exist until you got off the boats.
> 
> Ever heard of Tsali? I am a direct descendant, so yeah, I know "a few" who died.
> 
> Look up Horseshoe Bend. That is when and where my family made a stand to what remains ours now, and where they made their way.
> 
> Those who weren't slaughtered, that is.
> 
> As I said, rock on. We'll still be here when you're finished with yourselves.
Click to expand...


I went through HS with 2 Cherokee twins. Tried to date their sister but she wouldn't date any of her brothers friends. Wished i could find those guys today, just to see how they're doing. Haven't seen them since 71.


----------



## Mini 14

JBeukema said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is, there is no "we" and there is no "you" there is just "us".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then of course, there is the question of who was here first?  The so called "native Americans"?  The Vikings?  The Japanese or Chinese?  Who the heck cares at this point?  We are all here now so it's better to work together to make things right than to separate ourselves based on our ancestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Write history however it makes you feel good. As I said, I don't care. I know the history (so do you, you just don't want to own it). 

I've always found it comical (literally) how Americans don't want to even acknowledge how they came to control "America", yet have killed millions of people around the world, including some of their own, for doing the very same thing they claim as righteous and just in establishing their own country and society.

Hypocritical, comical, and our true and naked legacy.

And we are doomed to repeat it.

"Full circle" (an Indian concept) for sure.


----------



## Againsheila

Mini 14 said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is, there is no "we" and there is no "you" there is just "us".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then of course, there is the question of who was here first?  The so called "native Americans"?  The Vikings?  The Japanese or Chinese?  Who the heck cares at this point?  We are all here now so it's better to work together to make things right than to separate ourselves based on our ancestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Write history however it makes you feel good. As I said, I don't care. I know the history (so do you, you just don't want to own it).
> 
> I've always found it comical (literally) how Americans don't want to even acknowledge how they came to control "America", yet have killed millions of people around the world, including some of their own, for doing the very same thing they claim as righteous and just in establishing their own country and society.
> 
> Hypocritical, comical, and our true and naked legacy.
> 
> And we are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> "Full circle" (an Indian concept) for sure.
Click to expand...


I'm not writing history, I'm talking about NOW.  I never killed any Cherokee, have you killed any "whites?"  Why can't you understand that in spite of our history, or maybe because of it, we need to stand together NOW!


----------



## JBeukema

Mini 14 said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is, there is no "we" and there is no "you" there is just "us".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then of course, there is the question of who was here first?  The so called "native Americans"?  The Vikings?  The Japanese or Chinese?  Who the heck cares at this point?  We are all here now so it's better to work together to make things right than to separate ourselves based on our ancestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Write history however it makes you feel good. As I said, I don't care. I know the history (so do you, you just don't want to own it).
> 
> I've always found it comical (literally) how Americans don't want to even acknowledge how they came to control "America", yet have killed millions of people around the world, including some of their own, for doing the very same thing they claim as righteous and just in establishing their own country and society.
> 
> Hypocritical, comical, and our true and naked legacy.
> 
> And we are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> "Full circle" (an Indian concept) for sure.
Click to expand...

What the blazes are you babbling about?

Try reading my posts around this forum. 

My willingness to condemn America for its actions have made me a darling of the Right, I assure.


----------



## ABikerSailor

Againsheila said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit you were talking out of your ass.
> 
> Good, you're making progress.
> 
> You've any evidence I didn't know what the flag was?
> 
> 
> 
> Like Andersonville? Like Dresden? Can you name everyone ever slain during a Cherokee attack?
> 
> You're projecting again.
> 
> 
> 
> You base this assumption on what, exactly?
> 
> Who is 'we'? Who is 'you'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holy shit, you like to listen to yourself talk. don't you?
> 
> "We" are the Cherokee (yes, I am Cherokee).
> 
> "You" are they who came to our land and took it from us, then act as if God put you here and you invented it or something, as if it didn't exist until you got off the boats.
> 
> Ever heard of Tsali? I am a direct descendant, so yeah, I know "a few" who died.
> 
> Look up Horseshoe Bend. That is when and where my family made a stand to what remains ours now, and where they made their way.
> 
> Those who weren't slaughtered, that is.
> 
> As I said, rock on. We'll still be here when you're finished with yourselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No offense, but this was not "America" until the Europeans came over here and made it "America".  They may have taken land away from the Indians but if they hadn't, my guess is the Indians would still be living in their teepees or grass huts, etc.  Or maybe they would have died out as most of them were nomads who moved from place to place as they used up all the resources available.  Think "Easter Island".
> 
> Also, I don't know very many Caucasians who don't claim to have at least some Cherokee blood.  My husband is 1/32 Cherokee.  In my family we're just mutts.  We believe we either have some Indian blood or some black blood as my Grandmother was kind of dark and my Grandfather was disowned when he married her and never saw his family again until after her death.
> 
> My point is, there is no "we" and there is no "you" there is just "us".  At this point, we are all Americans, if you have a problem with that, I'm sorry but it's too late.  I think that we are all better off for the Europeans being here and making this into a major International Power.
> 
> Then of course, there is the question of who was here first?  The so called "native Americans"?  The Vikings?  The Japanese or Chinese?  Who the heck cares at this point?  We are all here now so it's better to work together to make things right than to separate ourselves based on our ancestors.
Click to expand...


Hey stupid........you DO realize that the buffalo were plentiful up until the white man moved west, right?  I'm from Montana and know of which I speak.

As far as living in teepees?  Guess what, the Indians were very practical and efficient people who were probably more civilized than the Europeans that came over here and used bio-warfare on the Native Americans in the form of smallpox infected blankets.

Considering that the Native Americans were healthier, as well as better adjusted to life than the Europeans, I'd be willing to bet that Europe colonizing this country was the start of something bad...........unless of course, you think genocide is a good thing.

As far as being all of us Americans? Yeah, sort of, but it's always good to remember who was here first.

Try again chumpsteak.


----------



## JBeukema

Againsheila said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Write history however it makes you feel good. As I said, I don't care. I know the history (so do you, you just don't want to own it).
> 
> I've always found it comical (literally) how Americans don't want to even acknowledge how they came to control "America", yet have killed millions of people around the world, including some of their own, for doing the very same thing they claim as righteous and just in establishing their own country and society.
> 
> Hypocritical, comical, and our true and naked legacy.
> 
> And we are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> "Full circle" (an Indian concept) for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not writing history, I'm talking about NOW.  I never killed any Cherokee, have you killed any "whites?"  Why can't you understand that in spite of our history, or maybe because of it, we need to stand together NOW!
Click to expand...

Look at how the Irish and the Chinese were received.

Yet they've moved on.

We can't change the past. We can only go on from here and make the best of what we've inherited so we give the next generation something better.


----------



## Againsheila

ABikerSailor said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy shit, you like to listen to yourself talk. don't you?
> 
> "We" are the Cherokee (yes, I am Cherokee).
> 
> "You" are they who came to our land and took it from us, then act as if God put you here and you invented it or something, as if it didn't exist until you got off the boats.
> 
> Ever heard of Tsali? I am a direct descendant, so yeah, I know "a few" who died.
> 
> Look up Horseshoe Bend. That is when and where my family made a stand to what remains ours now, and where they made their way.
> 
> Those who weren't slaughtered, that is.
> 
> As I said, rock on. We'll still be here when you're finished with yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No offense, but this was not "America" until the Europeans came over here and made it "America".  They may have taken land away from the Indians but if they hadn't, my guess is the Indians would still be living in their teepees or grass huts, etc.  Or maybe they would have died out as most of them were nomads who moved from place to place as they used up all the resources available.  Think "Easter Island".
> 
> Also, I don't know very many Caucasians who don't claim to have at least some Cherokee blood.  My husband is 1/32 Cherokee.  In my family we're just mutts.  We believe we either have some Indian blood or some black blood as my Grandmother was kind of dark and my Grandfather was disowned when he married her and never saw his family again until after her death.
> 
> My point is, there is no "we" and there is no "you" there is just "us".  At this point, we are all Americans, if you have a problem with that, I'm sorry but it's too late.  I think that we are all better off for the Europeans being here and making this into a major International Power.
> 
> Then of course, there is the question of who was here first?  The so called "native Americans"?  The Vikings?  The Japanese or Chinese?  Who the heck cares at this point?  We are all here now so it's better to work together to make things right than to separate ourselves based on our ancestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey stupid........you DO realize that the buffalo were plentiful up until the white man moved west, right?  I'm from Montana and know of which I speak.
> 
> As far as living in teepees?  Guess what, the Indians were very practical and efficient people who were probably more civilized than the Europeans that came over here and used bio-warfare on the Native Americans in the form of smallpox infected blankets.
> 
> Considering that the Native Americans were healthier, as well as better adjusted to life than the Europeans, I'd be willing to bet that Europe colonizing this country was the start of something bad...........unless of course, you think genocide is a good thing.
> 
> As far as being all of us Americans? Yeah, sort of, but it's always good to remember who was here first.
> 
> Try again chumpsteak.
Click to expand...


stupid?  chumpsteak?  I've already won and I didn't even really try.


----------



## Mini 14

Againsheila said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Write history however it makes you feel good. As I said, I don't care. I know the history (so do you, you just don't want to own it).
> 
> I've always found it comical (literally) how Americans don't want to even acknowledge how they came to control "America", yet have killed millions of people around the world, including some of their own, for doing the very same thing they claim as righteous and just in establishing their own country and society.
> 
> Hypocritical, comical, and our true and naked legacy.
> 
> And we are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> "Full circle" (an Indian concept) for sure.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not writing history, I'm talking about NOW.  I never killed any Cherokee, have you killed any "whites?"  Why can't you understand that in spite of our history, or maybe because of it, we need to stand together NOW!
Click to expand...


And yet this thread (as expected) has been nothing but a bashing of Southerners for something that happened 135 years ago.

Is that "now?"


----------



## Mini 14

ABikerSailor said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy shit, you like to listen to yourself talk. don't you?
> 
> "We" are the Cherokee (yes, I am Cherokee).
> 
> "You" are they who came to our land and took it from us, then act as if God put you here and you invented it or something, as if it didn't exist until you got off the boats.
> 
> Ever heard of Tsali? I am a direct descendant, so yeah, I know "a few" who died.
> 
> Look up Horseshoe Bend. That is when and where my family made a stand to what remains ours now, and where they made their way.
> 
> Those who weren't slaughtered, that is.
> 
> As I said, rock on. We'll still be here when you're finished with yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No offense, but this was not "America" until the Europeans came over here and made it "America".  They may have taken land away from the Indians but if they hadn't, my guess is the Indians would still be living in their teepees or grass huts, etc.  Or maybe they would have died out as most of them were nomads who moved from place to place as they used up all the resources available.  Think "Easter Island".
> 
> Also, I don't know very many Caucasians who don't claim to have at least some Cherokee blood.  My husband is 1/32 Cherokee.  In my family we're just mutts.  We believe we either have some Indian blood or some black blood as my Grandmother was kind of dark and my Grandfather was disowned when he married her and never saw his family again until after her death.
> 
> My point is, there is no "we" and there is no "you" there is just "us".  At this point, we are all Americans, if you have a problem with that, I'm sorry but it's too late.  I think that we are all better off for the Europeans being here and making this into a major International Power.
> 
> Then of course, there is the question of who was here first?  The so called "native Americans"?  The Vikings?  The Japanese or Chinese?  Who the heck cares at this point?  We are all here now so it's better to work together to make things right than to separate ourselves based on our ancestors.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hey stupid........you DO realize that the buffalo were plentiful up until the white man moved west, right?  I'm from Montana and know of which I speak.
> 
> As far as living in teepees?  Guess what, the Indians were very practical and efficient people who were probably more civilized than the Europeans that came over here and used bio-warfare on the Native Americans in the form of smallpox infected blankets.
> 
> Considering that the Native Americans were healthier, as well as better adjusted to life than the Europeans, I'd be willing to bet that Europe colonizing this country was the start of something bad...........unless of course, you think genocide is a good thing.
> 
> As far as being all of us Americans? Yeah, sort of, but it's always good to remember who was here first.
> 
> Try again chumpsteak.
Click to expand...


I think we would have been just fine


----------



## JBeukema

Mini 14 said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Write history however it makes you feel good. As I said, I don't care. I know the history (so do you, you just don't want to own it).
> 
> I've always found it comical (literally) how Americans don't want to even acknowledge how they came to control "America", yet have killed millions of people around the world, including some of their own, for doing the very same thing they claim as righteous and just in establishing their own country and society.
> 
> Hypocritical, comical, and our true and naked legacy.
> 
> And we are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> "Full circle" (an Indian concept) for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not writing history, I'm talking about NOW.  I never killed any Cherokee, have you killed any "whites?"  Why can't you understand that in spite of our history, or maybe because of it, we need to stand together NOW!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet this thread (as expected) has been nothing but a bashing of Southerners for something that happened 135 years ago.
> 
> Is that "now?"
Click to expand...

Actually, moron, it's been bashing of southerners today who fly the flag today. Primarily, it's been redneck bashing.


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## Foxfyre

The fact is, none of us can claim complete nobility in our ancestors.  Yes many/most of the Native Americans who were here before the first English settlers got a raw deal but that was then and it can't be undone now..  But many Native American tribes were also extremely viscious toward other tribes including making slaves of them from time to time.  Again that was then and now is now.

Yes slavery was a terrible thing and you would be hard put to find anyone who would condone it now.  But it was commonplace at the time it was happening--sometimes free blacks owned slaves themselves.  And it was black tribesmen who captured folks in Africa and brought them out to sell to the white slave traders to deliver to the auctions in Canada, America, Mexico, South America, and throughout the Carribean.  Again that was then.  This is now.

To those who had no part in racism or who condoned no racist acts of any kind, to those who grew up in the south with its many and commendable traditions and never experienced man's inhumanity to man, to those who have a good grasp of all the history and not just the cherry picked parts--that Confederate flag has a much different meaning than it does to you who have been taught that it means only racism or slavery.

Maybe as Christmas approaches with its traditions of Peace on Earth and Good Will Toward Men, a little tolerance from all of us would go a long way to begin to move into the here and now where people are not guilty of the historical sins of their ancesters.


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## Mini 14

Thank you, Foxfyre.

While JBeukema seems to want to relive it, you seem to understand that it is what it is, that we can't change it, and that it didn't just start in 1776.

Merry Christmas to you and yours, and Tsa la gi u na de ti-yi s gv i  (the closest thing to "Merry Christmas you're gonna get in the Cherokee language)


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## casper4020322

As Americans, as a united people that we are supposed to be we need to get over this. There are other countries in this world who want to take us over and kill us and that is not a joke. They hate us and call us heathens b/c of the way we live. I don't want to wear a burka and lose the freedom I have known. C'mon y'all, let's get it together. While we're arguiing over a piece of cloth that does not mean a damn thing to God, the one we claim to put FIRST above all else...yeah, right! It seems this flag is FIRST.. to the ones who love it and the ones who hate it!!


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## TheLonelySquire

Molly Hatchet.


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## Foxfyre

Mini 14 said:


> Thank you, Foxfyre.
> 
> . . . .you seem to understand that it is what it is, that we can't change it, and that it didn't just start in 1776.
> 
> Merry Christmas to you and yours, and Tsa la gi u na de ti-yi s gv i  (the closest thing to "Merry Christmas you're gonna get in the Cherokee language)



And thank you Mini.  Heck, there is stuff that happened today, yesterday, last week, last month, last year, ten years ago, and going back to the beginnings of recorded history that in retrospect we can find reasons to condemn it.  But to judge previous generations with all the hindsight we have here and now in the 21st century is to fail to appreciate or at least understand another time and culture.  And I'm sure many if not most of all those people way back then would have judged us just as harshly if they looked forward to see the mess we're making of many things now.  

So I'm all for learning from honest history and taking advantage of opportunity we have to do it better from right now forward.

Our New Mexico Jicarilla and Mescalero Apaches would say "Gozhqq Keshmish"
Our eastern Comanches would say "Tsaa Nu Sukatu waa Himiru"
Our Navajos would say "Ya'at'eeh keshmish"
Our Hopis have their own words but no written language for them yet. . . .
Folks from our rich Spanish and Mexican traditions here might say "Feliz Navidad"
And we all wish each other Merry Christmas which is what I wish for you and all our USMB friends.


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## Mini 14

Merry Christmas again.

And you're 100% right.

And you already know.....but this thread was never about the Civil War, the Confederate Flag, or even the Cherokee Flag, for that matter.

I am encouraged that I found at least one other who "gets it." Made it all worthwhile  

Peace, my true friend!

And may God smile always on you and yours!


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## hortysir

Foxfyre said:


> I think many here would benefit from reading an honest history of the Civil War and why it was fought and the results that it produced.  Here is a pretty good concise history for anybody who is willing to look past the politically correct and/or leftwing indoctrination on this:
> 
> A Jeffersonian View of the Civil War


You're right.
That was a good read.
Thank You


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## Ravi

JBeukema said:


> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not writing history, I'm talking about NOW.  I never killed any Cherokee, have you killed any "whites?"  Why can't you understand that in spite of our history, or maybe because of it, we need to stand together NOW!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet this thread (as expected) has been nothing but a bashing of Southerners for something that happened 135 years ago.
> 
> Is that "now?"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, moron, it's been bashing of southerners today who fly the flag today. Primarily, it's been redneck bashing.
Click to expand...

Yep. mini is trying to make the point that flying the rebel flag is a good thing to do and the only problem is with the people that see it as a symbol of treachery, slavery, and defeat.

Not those that fly it.


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## editec

Sunni Man said:


> Truthmatters said:
> 
> 
> 
> This wars main cause was slavery.
> 
> 
> 
> No, it was about states rights.
> 
> Slavery was just a side show.
Click to expand...

 
Revisionist nonsense.

There was one reason for the Civil War.

The defence of and future advancement of slavery into the territories.

The historical record is replete with the leaders of the CSA announcing that fact before, during and after the war.

On this subject you are quite simply either misinformed on unwilling to admit the truth.

But the hi8storical truth is out there for your consideration, so really you have no excuse for maintaining such an ignorant and false position *other than you want to excuse treason..*


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## Mini 14

Ravi said:


> JBeukema said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet this thread (as expected) has been nothing but a bashing of Southerners for something that happened 135 years ago.
> 
> Is that "now?"
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, moron, it's been bashing of southerners today who fly the flag today. Primarily, it's been redneck bashing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep. mini is trying to make the point that flying the rebel flag is a good thing to do and the only problem is with the people that see it as a symbol of treachery, slavery, and defeat.
> 
> Not those that fly it.
Click to expand...


Wow.

Even when we TELL you what the point is, you still don't get it.


----------



## Blagger

The Infidel said:


> You asked.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if ya really want my thoughts on that flag.... its the flag of a lost cause associated with a bunch of asshats.



Oh dear, another bitter colonial that can't deal with the fact that their ancestors once lived under the yoke of the mightiest empire the world has ever seen.

Get over it. 

And we're still going pretty strong for a lost cause, what with being the world's biggest financial investor in the US economy and lending our vast wealth of superior military experience to America in the war on terror. 

Asshats, you say? 

Pffftt, is what I say.


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## Truthmatters

no more rewriting of history guys.

You want to live in this world you will have to accept science, history, the real definitions of words and quit spewing hate of education of all kinds.

You will never be able to pretend your false facts are true and get away with it.

No changing history and sceince books to fit you failed ideas.


----------



## Againsheila

Mini 14 said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini 14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Write history however it makes you feel good. As I said, I don't care. I know the history (so do you, you just don't want to own it).
> 
> I've always found it comical (literally) how Americans don't want to even acknowledge how they came to control "America", yet have killed millions of people around the world, including some of their own, for doing the very same thing they claim as righteous and just in establishing their own country and society.
> 
> Hypocritical, comical, and our true and naked legacy.
> 
> And we are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> "Full circle" (an Indian concept) for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not writing history, I'm talking about NOW.  I never killed any Cherokee, have you killed any "whites?"  Why can't you understand that in spite of our history, or maybe because of it, we need to stand together NOW!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet this thread (as expected) has been nothing but a bashing of Southerners for something that happened 135 years ago.
> 
> Is that "now?"
Click to expand...


Nope, and I have not been bashing southerners


----------



## Truthmatters

This thread is about rewriting history for politcal purposes.

You will NOT get away with this crap.

This is why the right wants to kill public schools.

They can then get people to teach there kids LIES at home so no one remembers the REAL history.


----------



## SFC Ollie

Truthmatters said:


> This thread is about rewriting history for politcal purposes.
> 
> You will NOT get away with this crap.
> 
> This is why the right wants to kill public schools.
> 
> They can then get people to teach there kids LIES at home so no one remembers the REAL history.



Public schools are a major fail today. Or don't you keep up with the truth?

25 percent of U.S. youths can't pass military skills test | pnj.com | Pensacola News Journal


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## (R)IGHTeous 1

*Swagger wrote:*



> Oh dear, another bitter colonial that can't deal with the fact that their ancestors once lived under the yoke of the mightiest empire the world has ever seen.


Yea......ONCE.  Then your mightiest empire was beaten....humiliated.....by farmers......



> Get over it.


So should you sir.


> And we're still going pretty strong for a lost cause, what with being the world's biggest financial investor in the US economy


You sure that aint CHINA?



> and lending our vast wealth of superior military experience to America in the war on terror.


Appreciated, but we do indeed have a "special" relationship, yall are the mother country as you enjoy pointing out.  So really, what choice did yall have?


----------



## rightwinger




----------



## elvis

rightwinger said:


>



what does the black thing on that guy's face represent?


----------



## Blagger

(R)IGHTeous 1 said:


> *Swagger wrote:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear, another bitter colonial that can't deal with the fact that their ancestors once lived under the yoke of the mightiest empire the world has ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> Yea......ONCE.  Then your mightiest empire was beaten....humiliated.....by farmers......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get over it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So should you sir.
> 
> 
> 
> And we're still going pretty strong for a lost cause, what with being the world's biggest financial investor in the US economy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sure that aint CHINA?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and lending our vast wealth of superior military experience to America in the war on terror.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Appreciated, but we do indeed have a "special" relationship, yall are the mother country as you enjoy pointing out.  So really, what choice did yall have?
Click to expand...


1. We were rebelled against by treacherous colonists and anarchic Irishmen. Granted, the British Empire suffered an unexpected blow loosing the Thirteen Colonies, but it was cushioned by holding onto and exploring Canada, sort of.

2. Get over what? I've already come to terms with the fact that the Union Jack will never fly above the White House. I'm simply stating facts by reminding forgetful Americans that the eastern coast of America and the Pacific northwest were once colonies in the British Empire. It's something you should all be proud of, not ashamed.

3. There's a very big difference between *lending* and investing.

4. Indeed we do and long may it continue. Except your current president has taken a rather cool approach to what President Bush genuinely cherished and was openly grateful for.


----------



## casper4020322

elvis said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what does the black thing on that guy's face represent?
Click to expand...


I believe he is the dragon or leader! I hope they are willing to wear those outfits and show their hate if and when we are invaded again by the ones who flew into the towers on 9/11.That is one day I will fight right beside them....and I am Black.


----------



## JBeukema

Mini 14 said:


> Thank you, Foxfyre.
> 
> While JBeukema seems to want to relive it, you seem to understand that it is what it is, that we can't change it, and that it didn't just start in 1776.
> 
> Merry Christmas to you and yours, and Tsa la gi u na de ti-yi s gv i  (the closest thing to "Merry Christmas you're gonna get in the Cherokee language)








JBeukema said:


> We can't change the past. We can only go on from here and make the best  of what we've inherited so we give the next generation something  better.





Mini 14 said:


> "We" are the Cherokee (yes, I am Cherokee).
> 
> "You" are they who came to our land and took it from us, then act as if  God put you here and you invented it or something, as if it didn't exist  until you got off the boats.
> 
> Ever heard of Tsali? I am a direct descendant, so yeah, I know "a few" who died.
> 
> Look up Horseshoe Bend. That is when and where my family made a stand to what remains ours now, and where they made their way.
> 
> Those who weren't slaughtered, that is.
> 
> As I said, rock on. We'll still be here when you're finished with yourselves.


----------



## (R)IGHTeous 1

*Swagger wrote:*



> 1. We were rebelled against by treacherous colonists and anarchic Irishmen. Granted, the British Empire suffered an unexpected blow loosing the Thirteen Colonies, but it was cushioned by holding onto and exploring Canada, sort of.


Yall LOST, no blow, just loss.  It was bad, we were farmers, book keepers, yall had the most professional, well trained, equipped, Army on Earth.....and still lost.....


> 4. Indeed we do and long may it continue. Except your current president has taken a rather cool approach to what President Bush genuinely cherished and was openly grateful for.


We know.....this American is sorry, for what it's worth......


----------



## Againsheila

Truthmatters said:


> This thread is about rewriting history for politcal purposes.
> 
> You will NOT get away with this crap.
> 
> This is why the right wants to kill public schools.
> 
> They can then get people to teach there kids LIES at home so no one remembers the REAL history.



Um, that would be "their" lies, and that's one of the reasons why people need homeschooling.  I'm not on the right and I want to "kill" the public schools as they are abysmal failures.  My son graduated thinking he was "stupid" and now is on the Dean's List at DeVry University.  I'm not sure there is a way to fix our school system, it's gotten so bad.  In fact in our city they want to build a multi level high-school on a swamp.  There's a football field there now and they've conveniently forgotten it's was a swamp so of course, there's nothing in the design to support the structure on a swamp.  Talk about a death trap for our kids.  I've been trying to tell people but the newspaper refuses to print my letter and the school board doesn't want to listen.  How do I know it was a swamp?  We play "Tom Sawyer" there when I was a kid.  We had a raft and everything.  One of my neighbors remembers when they put the pilings in for the bleachers, a fountain of water came up.....these are the decisions of those running our schools and you think that's a good thing? 


You talk to any college professor today and they will tell you about our public schools and their failure to make our kids ready for college.  Even some of our kids came back to the school board and complained about how badly they were prepared for college.


----------

