# Is there more truth in Shakespeare than the Bible?



## Mindful

Which would provide you with more solace on a desert island?


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## gtopa1

I would want three books: The Bible, The Complete Works of Shakespeare and The Complete GK Chesterton. But of the two: Shakespeare or the Bible?? The Bible I've read a number of times already so Shakespeare. 

Greg


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## there4eyeM

More in quantity or more in depth?


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## Mindful

Who are these two?


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## gtopa1

Mindful said:


> Who are these two?



Saruman and Wormtongue??

Greg


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## Mindful

gtopa1 said:


> Mindful said:
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> Who are these two?
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> Saruman and Wormtongue??
> 
> Greg
Click to expand...



Or...........? lol

I'd have to take Tolkien to a desert island.

The Silmarillion for example.


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## SharpArrowhead

I think Shakespeare is very insightful about human nature in general.  The Bible has a lot more ideas on how to live a good life.


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## Crixus

Mindful said:


> Which would provide you with more solace on a desert island?



Both would end up a some point being one of two things, toilet paper and fuel for a fire, and my solace would be found imagining the day I was out of the desert.


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## OldLady

Mindful said:


> Who are these two?


Wouldn't this be Prospero and Caliban?


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## koshergrl

The bible. Shakespeare is beautiful, but rather short on solace. Plus it isn't the Word of God.


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## OldLady

Mindful said:


> gtopa1 said:
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> Mindful said:
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> Who are these two?
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> Saruman and Wormtongue??
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> Greg
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Or...........? lol
> 
> I'd have to take Tolkien to a desert island.
> 
> The Silmarillion for example.
Click to expand...

The Silmarillion is great--Song of the Ainur was so beautiful it made me cry.  But if I had to choose one book to take to a desert island, it would be Faulkner's Go Down Moses.  Could read those stories forever without getting sick of them.


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## Crixus

SharpArrowhead said:


> I think Shakespeare is very insightful about human nature in general.  The Bible has a lot more ideas on how to live a good life.



He Bible speaks to human nature more then it's given credit for. And it doesn't stop at our nature being sinful. I need to go read more Shakespeare to see so I can bring a deeper comment.


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## OldLady

Crixus said:


> SharpArrowhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Shakespeare is very insightful about human nature in general.  The Bible has a lot more ideas on how to live a good life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He Bible speaks to human nature more then it's given credit for. And it doesn't stop at our nature being sinful. I need to go read more Shakespeare to see so I can bring a deeper comment.
Click to expand...

Shakespeare was a genius about observing the essence of human nature.  His characters are just as real and believable today as they were in whatever time he set them.  Only the costumes change.  Macbeth and his ambitious wife,  King Lear's vanity and the loyalty of family,  Hamlet's questions about justice, revenge, the sanctity of life, Othello's tragic jealousy.
While Abraham was a pretty juicy read, I don't remember a lot in the Bible that resonates the way Shakespeare does.  Maybe it's just because the Bible's stories are so much more remote.


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## Igrok_

where is Shakespear and where is the God?


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## Sbiker

Igrok_ said:


> where is Shakespear and where is the God?



I think, they're drunking in the same pub now


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## SuperDemocrat

I find the sayings of Jesus morally uplifting.  I don't find the old testament uplifting at all.


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## koshergrl

SuperDemocrat said:


> I find the sayings of Jesus morally uplifting.  I don't find the old testament uplifting at all.


But it is awe inspiring. I find the ot a lot more compellingnthe.older I get and the more I understand how entwined it is with the nt. And proverbs....wow just wow.


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## Crixus

OldLady said:


> Crixus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SharpArrowhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Shakespeare is very insightful about human nature in general.  The Bible has a lot more ideas on how to live a good life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He Bible speaks to human nature more then it's given credit for. And it doesn't stop at our nature being sinful. I need to go read more Shakespeare to see so I can bring a deeper comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shakespeare was a genius about observing the essence of human nature.  His characters are just as real and believable today as they were in whatever time he set them.  Only the costumes change.  Macbeth and his ambitious wife,  King Lear's vanity and the loyalty of family,  Hamlet's questions about justice, revenge, the sanctity of life, Othello's tragic jealousy.
> While Abraham was a pretty juicy read, I don't remember a lot in the Bible that resonates the way Shakespeare does.  Maybe it's just because the Bible's stories are so much more remote.
Click to expand...



Loved king Lear. Saw the play at Lincoln Center in  Ft. Collins Colorado.


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## SuperDemocrat

I would say that the bible would be more comforting on a desert island than a work of fiction because if you are about to die then it may be a good idea to get in touch with your spiritual side.


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## Sbiker

SuperDemocrat said:


> I would say that the bible would be more comforting on a desert island than a work of fiction because if you are about to die then it may be a good idea to get in touch with your spiritual side.



For the one person on a desert island both bible or fiction book could be equally comforting or no, it depends of person's psychology... All religions have a primarily social orientation...


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## Treeshepherd

Shakespeare drew from a rich well of Biblical themes, as well as Greek and Roman drama.
Tolkien was mentioned a few times in this thread. He was Biblically inspired (in addition to Viking and Greek mythology). The Bible is a cornerstone of all these authors (Faulkner was mentioned as well).

So the question is, do you prefer the cake or the icing?


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## yiostheoy

Mindful said:


> Which would provide you with more solace on a desert island?


William Shakespeare's fiction is of no interest to me.

I'll take a Douay Rheims bible or a Greek New Testament with English subtitles any day to any other book for solace.

The main thing you need to get out of solace is to endure slings and arrows of outrageous fortune (oops!  there goes my Shakespeare again !!).

I love the story of Moses.

I love the story of Elijah.

I love the story of Maccabees.

I love the story of Jesus.  Jesus gives us hope.

Jesus answers questions that nobody else can.


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## yiostheoy

Treeshepherd said:


> Shakespeare drew from a rich well of Biblical themes, as well as Greek and Roman drama.
> Tolkien was mentioned a few times in this thread. He was Biblically inspired (in addition to Viking and Greek mythology). The Bible is a cornerstone of all these authors (Faulkner was mentioned as well).
> 
> So the question is, do you prefer the cake or the icing?


Tolkien is entertaining.  The Hobbit is funny.  The Trilogy of the Rings is awe inspiring.

Remember that the end of the whole Tolkien matter was the 3 rings with red, white, and blue stones.

Red white and blue is British, French, but most notable American.

The USA saved Britain and France's life during WW1 and that is what Tolkien analogizes from.

The USA also saved their lives big time (even more) during WW2.


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## yiostheoy

Sbiker said:


> SuperDemocrat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that the bible would be more comforting on a desert island than a work of fiction because if you are about to die then it may be a good idea to get in touch with your spiritual side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the one person on a desert island both bible or fiction book could be equally comforting or no, it depends of person's psychology... All religions have a primarily social orientation...
Click to expand...

So what do you want instead?  the Bagvadgita?


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## yiostheoy

SuperDemocrat said:


> I find the sayings of Jesus morally uplifting.  I don't find the old testament uplifting at all.


The O.T. is fascinating for its many rules.

Thou shalt not have sex with a mother and her daughter.

Thou shalt not have sex with animals.

Thou shalt not have sex with your own gender.

Thou shalt not dig a pit and leave it uncovered for people and animals to fall into.

Those are all fascinating rules.

Jesus was a very permissive Son Of God whereas the O.T. is more strict about what it takes to be loved by God.


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## yiostheoy

Sbiker said:


> Igrok_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> where is Shakespear and where is the God?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think, they're drunking in the same pub now
Click to expand...

Drink, drank, drunk.

Drinking, dranking, drunking ??


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## yiostheoy

Crixus said:


> Mindful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which would provide you with more solace on a desert island?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both would end up a some point being one of two things, toilet paper and fuel for a fire, and my solace would be found imagining the day I was out of the desert.
Click to expand...

Arabs don't need toilet paper so why would you ?!

Just don't eat with your left hand.


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## Moonglow

Mindful said:


> Who are these two?


King Lear and ??


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## yiostheoy

Mindful said:


> Which would provide you with more solace on a desert island?


I hope you are not Catholic.  If you are then every priest and nun you ever met failed you.

If you are Protestant then that is par for the course.  Their children by and large are lost.

If you are atheist then you are a little heathen mocking God.

If you are Muslim then you are mocking Christianity and Judaism.  Ditto if Hindu.


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## yiostheoy

Sbiker said:


> SuperDemocrat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that the bible would be more comforting on a desert island than a work of fiction because if you are about to die then it may be a good idea to get in touch with your spiritual side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the one person on a desert island both bible or fiction book could be equally comforting or no, it depends of person's psychology... All religions have a primarily social orientation...
Click to expand...

I hope you are not Russian Orthodox.

If you are then every priest you ever met failed you ... .


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## Sbiker

yiostheoy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SuperDemocrat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that the bible would be more comforting on a desert island than a work of fiction because if you are about to die then it may be a good idea to get in touch with your spiritual side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the one person on a desert island both bible or fiction book could be equally comforting or no, it depends of person's psychology... All religions have a primarily social orientation...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what do you want instead?  the Bagvadgita?
Click to expand...


Instead of what? As for me, I prefer Bible, because I was born and live in Christian society. But for the single people on desert island... For the some peoples the Bible couldn't take effect too... And some people would be glad to have any book of fiction... Maybe, about Robinson Crusoe, why not?


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## Sbiker

yiostheoy said:


> Sbiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SuperDemocrat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that the bible would be more comforting on a desert island than a work of fiction because if you are about to die then it may be a good idea to get in touch with your spiritual side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the one person on a desert island both bible or fiction book could be equally comforting or no, it depends of person's psychology... All religions have a primarily social orientation...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hope you are not Russian Orthodox.
> 
> If you are then every priest you ever met failed you ... .
Click to expand...


Why not? What's wrong in Russian Orthodox church?  We keep original Jesus ideas for a centuries, without any "adaptations" or "modernizations"... ))


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## OldLady

yiostheoy said:


> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shakespeare drew from a rich well of Biblical themes, as well as Greek and Roman drama.
> Tolkien was mentioned a few times in this thread. He was Biblically inspired (in addition to Viking and Greek mythology). The Bible is a cornerstone of all these authors (Faulkner was mentioned as well).
> 
> So the question is, do you prefer the cake or the icing?
> 
> 
> 
> Tolkien is entertaining.  The Hobbit is funny.  The Trilogy of the Rings is awe inspiring.
> 
> Remember that the end of the whole Tolkien matter was the 3 rings with red, white, and blue stones.
> 
> Red white and blue is British, French, but most notable American.
> 
> The USA saved Britain and France's life during WW1 and that is what Tolkien analogizes from.
> 
> The USA also saved their lives big time (even more) during WW2.
Click to expand...

Ummm  I don't think so.  Tolkein served briefly in WWI if I remember correctly, and saw the madness of WWII, but Lord of the Rings is NOT an analogy about USA saving the world.


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## Sbiker

OldLady said:


> yiostheoy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treeshepherd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shakespeare drew from a rich well of Biblical themes, as well as Greek and Roman drama.
> Tolkien was mentioned a few times in this thread. He was Biblically inspired (in addition to Viking and Greek mythology). The Bible is a cornerstone of all these authors (Faulkner was mentioned as well).
> 
> So the question is, do you prefer the cake or the icing?
> 
> 
> 
> Tolkien is entertaining.  The Hobbit is funny.  The Trilogy of the Rings is awe inspiring.
> 
> Remember that the end of the whole Tolkien matter was the 3 rings with red, white, and blue stones.
> 
> Red white and blue is British, French, but most notable American.
> 
> The USA saved Britain and France's life during WW1 and that is what Tolkien analogizes from.
> 
> The USA also saved their lives big time (even more) during WW2.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ummm  I don't think so.  Tolkein served briefly in WWI if I remember correctly, and saw the madness of WWII, but Lord of the Rings is NOT an analogy about USA saving the world.
Click to expand...


He was British writer, maybe he means Britain as world saviour?

At least, analogy of Mordor and USSR still using almost in every issues of yellow press, who raise the themes of Tolkien or USSR... 

But what we really can say about hidden thoughts of J.R.R.T? He was married all his life, since an age of 21, but his main novel is about ordinar small man from Hobbiton (analogue of old England), who overcomes giantic difficulties for one purpose: drop the RING to a deadly flame of Orodruin.... ))))


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