# Joe Biden/Sarah Palin Debate Conversation Thread



## Modbert

So since everyone already has a opinion of whom they think are going to win, how low is the bar for Sarah Palin to win this tonight?

This is only really pre debate conversation as the actual debate has not started yet.


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## kane3o1

Damn, u beat my topic by 5 mins -_-  I didn't even see this...lol


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## Modbert

Lol early bird wins the race

Starting with the economy.


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## AVG-JOE

Good evening, kids!

-Joe  (Not Biden)


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## kane3o1

WTF Palin? LOL


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## Jon

"Hello, nice to meet you. Can I call you Joe?"

These two really have never met? Wow.


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## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> Good evening, kids!
> 
> -Joe  (Not Biden)





SOME fear about the economy?

Ohh boy Sarah.


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## clane1987

People have had the fears that Palin is talking about for the past 10-15 years.


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## Modbert

jsanders said:


> "Hello, nice to meet you. Can I call you Joe?"
> 
> These two really have never met? Wow.



Never face to face. Least Palin is doing better then McCain in the eye contact area I think because she is least looking over at Biden once in a while.


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## jillian

McCain suspended his campaign?

When?

they're shameless


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## kane3o1

He DIDN'T suspended his campaign. That's one lie from her already -_-


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## Modbert

jillian said:


> McCain suspended his campaign?
> 
> When?
> 
> they're shameless





Joe Biden takes a swipe at McCain.


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## jillian

Modbert said:


> Joe Biden takes a swipe at McCain.



But in the nicest possible way.

"Not that he's not a good guy and all...."


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## clane1987

Sarah Palin and her husband should use some of that $215,000 a year salary and purchase some nasonex.


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## Modbert

John McCain does NOT believe America has the greatest working force.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWOZKeOauNI]YouTube - John McCain Trashes American Workers[/ame]

Lie #2 on Sarah's part.


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## clane1987

Palin also said that John McCain has ground breaking revolutionary economic policies when in fact he is using traditional conservative policies.


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## Jon

clane1987 said:


> Palin also said that John McCain has ground breaking revolutionary economic policies when in fact he is using traditional conservative policies.



Just as Obama is using traditional liberal policies. Where's the change?


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## Modbert

It's a shame they changed the format because the McCain campaign didn't want Sarah at a disadvantage.

I would of loved to see Joe Biden/Sarah Palin debate off the cuff really.


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## Modbert

The 94 times comment I'm pretty sure will be ripped apart by Factcheck.org later.


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## kane3o1

Biden is laying the smackdown! LOL


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## Modbert

Families making less then 42k a year? LIE


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## jillian

jsanders said:


> Just as Obama is using traditional liberal policies. Where's the change?



change from Bush.... you know... the FAILED policies.

I find it amusing that the concept seems difficult to so many of you.


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## kane3o1

Why is she talking about her tax cuts? LOL


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## clane1987

kane3o1 said:


> Biden is laying the smackdown! LOL



I didn't know if my liberal bias was making me think this. It seems like she is a fish out of the water.


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## Modbert

I count least 3 lies on Sarah's part so far.

Oh and J, feel free to answer my comments in the other thread you made.


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## jillian

Her smiling seems really inappropriate and unsettling at times.


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## Modbert

jillian said:


> Her smiling seems really inappropriate and unsettling at times.



You mean like McCain when they smile when they're talking about how bad things are?


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## Modbert

Joe Biden speaks the truth by hitting McCain's "$5,000 health tax credit" and the whole taxing part of it.

And swing!

"Ultimate Bridge to Nowhere "


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## jillian

Modbert said:


> You mean like McCain when they smile when they're talking about how bad things are?



Yeah. It weirds me out... There's a smugness about it.


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## CrimsonWhite

"Ultimate bridge to nowhere" 

ouch

That was a great line.


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## kane3o1

YEA BIDEN!!!!! LOLOL
"I call that the ultimate bridge to nowhere"

XD


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## Modbert

jillian said:


> Yeah. It weirds me out... There's a smugness about it.


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## clane1987

CrimsonWhite said:


> "Ultimate bridge to nowhere"
> 
> ouch



I believe that mean all gloves are off


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> "Ultimate bridge to nowhere"
> 
> ouch
> 
> That was a great line.



And then he comes back and defends his stance.

And once again Sarah Palin with the smiling, did she have injections of Botox before the debate?


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## CrimsonWhite

clane1987 said:


> I believe that mean all gloves are off



Let's see if she hits back.


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## Modbert

Mavericks don't sue WITH the oil companies to take Polar Bears off the endangered species list so you can go drill oil.

That's what we call TRUTH.


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## clane1987

CrimsonWhite said:


> Let's see if she hits back.



She went with the classic back against the wall defense, "flip-flopping."


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## jillian

CrimsonWhite said:


> Let's see if she hits back.



"bless [the oil company CEO's] hearts???

oy...


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## kane3o1




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## Modbert

"Put the Gov't back on the side of the American people"

Uh, she does realize it's the Republicans in charge right?

Oh and John McCain will not be able to keep every promise he makes.


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## Modbert

Complimenting Sarah while insulting John McCain.

I love it .


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## kane3o1

Get em BIDEN!


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## kane3o1

Modbert said:


> complimenting Sarah While Insulting John Mccain.
> 
> I Love It .




Lmao


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## CrimsonWhite

jillian said:


> "bless [the oil company CEO's] hearts???
> 
> oy...



She is too damn cute. Where is this bulldog in lipstick I keep hearing about?


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## clane1987

Where did her smile go?


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## kane3o1

Why is Palin telling us stuff we already know?


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> She is too damn cute. Where is this bulldog in lipstick I keep hearing about?



John McCain had it spayed and neutered.


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## kane3o1

She's agreeing with Obama LOLOL


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## CrimsonWhite

Now she's on a roll.


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## jillian

"Eastern states that don't allow" 

nah...no message there...


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Now she's on a roll.



Agreeing with Obama would do that. 

I think out of any the topics, Energy would be her strong point then compared to Foreign Policy which has been left out of the debate thus far.


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## Modbert

Don't want to argue about the causes?

Because she doesn't want you to know she doesn't think it was man made!

Drilling doesn't help the earth Sarah.


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## jillian

CrimsonWhite said:


> She is too damn cute. Where is this bulldog in lipstick I keep hearing about?



she reminds me of the prom queen in the movies who sabotages her rivals...


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## Jon

Modbert said:


> Don't want to argue about the causes?
> 
> Because she doesn't want you to know she doesn't think it was man made!
> 
> Drilling doesn't help the earth Sarah.



She just said she thought man was part of the problem, but she's right about cyclical changes in the climate. 30 years ago, liberals had people like you thinking the planet was on it's way to becoming an iceland. Now you think it's melting away.


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## jillian

"If you don't understand the causes, it's virtually impossible...."

yep...


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## Modbert

Joe Biden hits it right on the head.

How can you solve something if you don't know how it happened in the first place?

If Sarah Palin said not to apply this concept to the whole economy crisis she'd be slaughtered on TV.


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## Modbert

jsanders said:


> She just said she thought man was part of the problem, but she's right about cyclical changes in the climate. 30 years ago, liberals had people like you thinking the planet was on it's way to becoming an iceland. Now you think it's melting away.



Then she has flip flopped on her original view that it wasn't man made.

J, have you answered my comments in the other thread or do you still believe Sarah Palin is so much more poorer then Joe Biden?


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## kane3o1

Biden is laying the motha fukin smackdown, this is great


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## Modbert

Tiny footprints Sarah?

Mind if we leave a tiny footprint or two at your home then by drilling there?


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## Jon

jillian said:


> "If you don't understand the causes, it's virtually impossible...."
> 
> yep...



Clearly she does understand the problems, otherwise she wouldn't have talked about cleaning up the planet. She just doesn't think the problem is ONLY man-made.

She said "Obama and Senator O'Biden," and Biden laughed and she almost laughed too.


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## jillian

"tiny footprints"


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## Jon

Modbert said:


> Tiny footprints Sarah?
> 
> Mind if we leave a tiny footprint or two at your home then by drilling there?



Since when has she said anything about drilling on someone's home?


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## Modbert

Ohh Same Sex Benefits.

Here's where Sarah is going to come off looking very ignorant if she doesn't flip flop on her real views again.


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## Modbert

jsanders said:


> Since when has she said anything about drilling on someone's home?



Never said anything but if it's just tiny footprints then I don't think she won't would she?


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## Jon

Modbert said:


> Ohh Same Sex Benefits.
> 
> Here's where Sarah is going to come off looking very ignorant if she doesn't flip flop on her real views again.



She VETOED a bill that would prevent benefits to same sex couples, in spite of her views.


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## Modbert

Your not Tolerant Sarah, how can you be against Gay Marriage and benefits for Same Sex Couples but then say your tolerant?

I'm astounded.


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## WillowTree

jsanders said:


> Clearly she does understand the problems, otherwise she wouldn't have talked about cleaning up the planet. She just doesn't think the problem is ONLY man-made.
> 
> She said "Obama and Senator O'Biden," and Biden laughed and she almost laughed too.



you may as well save your breath, these partisan hacks had their minds made up before this debate started. nothing you can say will change that. so relax and watch her kick his ass. He will lose cause all he can do is stand there and spout the KOS talking points. He dosen't have an original thought in his head.


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## Jon

Modbert said:


> Your not Tolerant Sarah, how can you be against Gay Marriage and benefits for Same Sex Couples but then say your tolerant?
> 
> I'm astounded.



Ouch, Biden just said he and Obama agree with that. How'd that feel?


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## SwingVoter

She was so great at the convention, don't know what's happened since.


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## WillowTree

It tickles me though that she has him pissed off 30 minutes into the debate.


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## jillian

jsanders said:


> Ouch, Biden just said he and Obama agree with that. How'd that feel?



They support civil unions. And Biden just shook up sarah. lol...


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## OohRah Mama

al Quaeda, soccer, closer to winning, government, people, Alaska, terrrrror, surge, closer to that point 
Bush/Cheney with menses. 


Blinded like a goshdarn moose in the glare of headlights. You're lookin' a bit peaked, there, gal, don'tcha know...


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## Modbert

jillian said:


> They support civil unions. And Biden just shook up sarah. lol...



What Jillian said.

Btw J, you still haven't answered my other comments in the thread you created. Waiting for an answer on that still.


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## clane1987

SwingVoter said:


> She was so great at the convention, don't know what's happened since.


She was only great because it was like a new girl on campus who is the most attractive then everyone gets to know her and she turns out to be the complete opposite.


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## Jon

jillian said:


> They support civil unions. And Biden just shook up sarah. lol...



She's been shaken up this whole time. She looks nervous as fuck. She's doing the best she can, and against a seasoned career politician, she's not half bad.


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## kane3o1

Odd man out, John McCain


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## Jon

Modbert said:


> What Jillian said.
> 
> Btw J, you still haven't answered my other comments in the thread you created. Waiting for an answer on that still.



Which thread is that?


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## kane3o1

Biden is stating a lot of facts.


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## clane1987

For goodness sake he's unpatriotic if he thinks we should withdrawal.


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## Modbert

jsanders said:


> She's been shaken up this whole time. She looks nervous as fuck. She's doing the best she can, and against a seasoned career politician, she's not half bad.



Excuses Excuses, if she's so nervous then maybe she shouldn't of been chosen. They already changed the format so Sarah wouldn't be standing up there like a fool like she was at times in the Katie Couric interviews.

And Sarah Palin flat lines for a moment before saying we're surrendering if we follow Obama/Biden's plan.


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## Modbert

jsanders said:


> Which thread is that?



Hmm never mind then. Read Elitism vs. Realism as yours. My mistake.


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## Jon

Oh shit, this is going to get ugly.


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## Modbert

jsanders said:


> Oh shit, this is going to get ugly.



Obviously, Joe Biden is going to take Sarah to school here.


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## notomccain

palin seems rather scared. she sounds very squeaky


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## jillian

jsanders said:


> She's been shaken up this whole time. She looks nervous as fuck. She's doing the best she can, and against a seasoned career politician, she's not half bad.



she's certainly doing better than she did with katie couric, but she's still out of her league. but she's not embarrassing herself


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## Jon

Modbert said:


> Obviously, Joe Biden is going to take Sarah to school here.



But she was right, he did flip. A year ago, Obama was dead wrong and McCain was right. Today, it's the other way around.


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## SwingVoter

Did Biden just say he's got the hots for McCain?


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## Modbert

Lets see if Palin talks about her true views on Pakistan (in which she agrees with Obama) or sells out her soul on this one to agree with McCain.


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## clane1987

notomccain said:


> palin seems rather scared. she sounds very squeaky


She always sounds that way but her answers are coming slower and slower.


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## Jon

jillian said:


> she's certainly doing better than she did with katie couric, but she's still out of her league. but she's not embarrassing herself



Agreed, and she's gotten in a couple of shots. All Biden can do is say, "Oh yeah, Barack did it, but McCain did it too!" So where does that leave them? Apparently they should be running on a ticket together against McCain and Obama.


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## Modbert

Joe Biden speaks the truth.

McCain no longer wants to follow Bin Laden to the gates of hell so it seems.


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## Jon

Oh, Palin just said you should believe the leader of Al Queda. Big mistake.


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## Modbert

She's calling the leader of Iran unstable?

And McCain said to Obama "YOU DON'T SAY THINGS LIKE THAT OUTLOUD"


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## Modbert

jsanders said:


> Oh, Palin just said you should believe the leader of Al Queda. Big mistake.



You caught that too J? I was like oh gee, I guess that means America is really evil!


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## kane3o1

jsanders said:


> Oh, Palin just said you should believe the leader of Al Queda. Big mistake.



I heard that too. I thought I was hearing things.


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## Modbert

Note Sarah:

Dr. Henry Kissinger is not Buddha, you do not get foreign policy experience by rubbing his belly.


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## kane3o1

She keeps saying the same thing over and over again but rewording it -_-


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## jillian

why can't repubs actually say the word "nuclear"

nuk-yoo-lar? damn!

and "they hate us for our freedoms"

sheesh...


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## Modbert

jillian said:


> why can't repubs actually say the word "nuclear"
> 
> nuk-yoo-lar? damn!
> 
> and "they hate us for our freedoms"
> 
> sheesh...



She really is mini-bush.


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## notomccain

all she can do is be a  parrott and  throw  up neocon talking  points. she  just seems stupid.


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## clane1987

Biden just hits the nail on the head with the friends and allies talk! This is like watching a Mike Tyson fight in the early 90s!


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## Modbert

Biden hits Sarah on diplomacy and Iran. Ooo.

And awesome point by Biden on SPAIN.


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## Modbert

If blinking rapidly means your lying or bullshit then Sarah is really telling some whoppers.

Anyone else noticing how she is blinking as much as she talks?


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## kane3o1

Biden is owning McCain AND Palin @ the same time, this is beautiful


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## OohRah Mama

clane1987 said:


> For goodness sake he's unpatriotic if he thinks we should withdrawal.



So...if people like combat-vet Marines say they favor withdrawal, they're unpatriotic too?


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## MichaelCollins

LMAO..... Palin learnt who the IRanian President was..about 2 weeks ago..

and has been practicing how to pronounce his name ...

Ahmadinejad
Ahmadinejad
Ahmadinejad

LMAO

This is a joke of a contest.

Biden is very impressive... but he is debating with a child.


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## notomccain

romney should  have been vp. he  is well versed  in economic  issues


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## kane3o1

She keeps saying the same stuff over and over again LOL


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## clane1987

"I'm so encouraged to know we both love Israel and I think that is a good thing to get to agree on."


Wow, when does flattering your opponent win a debate?


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## kane3o1

GET EM BIDEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


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## notomccain

how did she get to be a governor? alaskans arent stupid  people. what  happened?


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## Jon

clane1987 said:


> "I'm so encouraged to know we both love Israel and I think that is a good thing to get to agree on."
> 
> 
> Wow, when does flattering your opponent win a debate?



It's called being honest. Sometimes, enemies agree on something. If you disagree with EVERYTHING your opponent says, you end up looking like a partisan hack like Obama.

One thing is clear tonight: Biden should be on top of the Democratic ticket, not Obama.


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## jillian

clane1987 said:


> "I'm so encouraged to know we both love Israel and I think that is a good thing to get to agree on."
> 
> 
> Wow, when does flattering your opponent win a debate?



nah... I gave her points for that one.


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## MichaelCollins

kane3o1 said:


> She keeps saying the same stuff over and over again LOL



She said Ahmadinejad... 87 times in 2 minutes.... and she didnt even know who he was 2 weeks ago!

Its not just funny...its very dangerous..

Biden is a rare american...he seems to know about foreign policy.


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## WillowTree

DUmmies keep saying Immadinnajacket isn't in power in Iran.. Why is he their mouthpiece?? doyareckon?


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## Modbert

Biden stays current with a great point there.


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## Jon

jillian said:


> nah... I gave her points for that one.


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## WillowTree

jsanders said:


> It's called being honest. Sometimes, enemies agree on something. If you disagree with EVERYTHING your opponent says, you end up looking like a partisan hack like Obama.
> 
> *One thing is clear tonight: Biden should be on top of the Democratic ticket, *not Obama.






he's tried twice and failed miserably, the DUmmies won't have him.


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## Jon

WillowTree said:


> he's tried twice and failed miserably, the DUmmies won't have him.



He's easily unlikable, but clearly more knowledgeable than Obama.


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## eots

its a battle of wits.....and you missy......are unarmed


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## clane1987

I think Obama/Biden is a great 1-2 punch. Obama is likeable and has a great vibe while Biden could be the hammer.


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## MichaelCollins

This is silly ...debating Foreign Policy.

Biden has 30 plus years experience studying FP... Palin could not point on a map and get within 1000 miles of Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel.

She only learnt the names of their leaders 2 weeks ago.

Its the biggest mismatch in presidential debate history.


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## Jon

clane1987 said:


> I think Obama/Biden is a great 1-2 punch. Obama is likeable and has a great vibe while Biden could be the hammer.



It's another Bush/Cheney. Bush was easy to like 8 years ago, because of the way he carried himself. Everyone's already hated Cheney. But Cheney was the one calling the shots for the majority of the last eight years. Obama won't be able to wipe his ass without asking Biden if he's doing it right.


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## Modbert

clane1987 said:


> I think Obama/Biden is a great 1-2 punch. Obama is likeable and has a great vibe while Biden could be the hammer.



Joe Biden says it's Hammer time!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcNUx0-XEfw]YouTube - MC Hammer - U can't touch this (original)[/ame]

And Palin agrees with Biden on Darfur.

Man she makes the people who said Obama was crazy to say he agrees with McCain look bad at the moment.


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## rayboyusmc

> Obama won't be able to wipe his ass without asking Biden if he's doing it right.



Right.  What bullshit.  Wipe that off.


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## Modbert

Sarah Palin has nothing new to add except "I disagree and Barack Obama says."


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## Jon

It's going to be funny when FactCheck proves that Biden DID indeed side with McCain and not Obama.


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## Gem

McCain knows how to win a war?  What the hell does that even mean, lol.


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## MichaelCollins

BIDEN is very impressive for an american...but the fact that one of the leading US foreign policy politicians...calls Bosnians... "Bosniacs"... really does sum up the US...and why they are such a joke in the rest of the world.

Utter lack of education.


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## clane1987

Yay more back against the wall talk by Palin; bringing up McCain's military past saying he knows how to win a war.


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## CactusCarlos

Plugs is getting flustered.  Having to keep track of what he believed before and then after becoming the Obama's VP pick has gotta be tough!


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## rayboyusmc

> It's called being honest. Sometimes, enemies agree on something. If you disagree with EVERYTHING your opponent says, you end up looking like a partisan hack like Obama.



Oh, fucking really.  Who agreed on the presidential debate.  Who had the courtesy and courage to  look the other person in the eye.


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## Jon

clane1987 said:


> Yay more back against the wall talk by Palin; bringing up McCain's military past saying he knows how to win a war.



The surge worked. Clearly McCain does know how to win a war. Obama knows how to withdraw from a war.


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## CactusCarlos

MichaelCollins said:


> BIDEN is very impressive for an american.



Don't you have more drinking to do?  Maybe a drive afterwards?


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## Modbert

Gem said:


> McCain knows how to win a war?  What the hell does that even mean, lol.



I like to know what wars McCain has won?


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## eots

I actualy feel embrassed for her...its almost...painful....I want to turn it off..but feel compeled to watch...like a train wreck...


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## kane3o1

Bush Doctrine...lol
Something Palin doesn't no anything about


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## Modbert

jsanders said:


> The surge worked. Clearly McCain does know how to win a war. Obama knows how to withdraw from a war.



The surge was a giant gamble. Besides, Iraq isn't nearly close to being fixed.


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## CactusCarlos

rayboyusmc said:


> Oh, fucking really.  Who agreed on the presidential debate.



Obama defintely said he agreed with McCain a lot.


----------



## Jon

eots said:


> I actualy feel embrassed for her...its almost...painful....I want to turn it off..but feel compeled to watch...like a train wreck...



Are watching the same thing? Biden is clearly more knowledgeable, but she is certainly holding her own.


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## kane3o1

She's already said that!!!!!!!! LOL


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## Jon

Modbert said:


> The surge was a giant gamble. Besides, Iraq isn't nearly close to being fixed.



And your candidate wants to give up on it.


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## Gem

Exactly...McCain has never won a war...I think that this was a weak point for her to make - stick with the fact that he supported the very successful surge while Obama refused to support it, bet on its failure, then checked the political winds and finally begrudgingly admitted that it was successful.


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## Modbert

jsanders said:


> And your candidate wants to give up on it.



Iraq isn't going to be fixed for a very long time. However, we're not there to be Bob the Builder. We can't babysit Iraq forever.


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## WillowTree

eots said:


> I actualy feel embrassed for her...its almost...painful....I want to turn it off..but feel compeled to watch...like a train wreck...



that's because you are an idiot. not to mention blind and deaf.


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## Modbert

I do hope she was just joking just now with that voice.


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## Gem

Who told her to say shit like that?  My god, I just want to bitch-slap political advisors sometimes!  lol.


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## Jon

Modbert said:


> I do hope she was just joking just now with that voice.



Clearly she's trying to control the tone and keep it light. That actually works in Biden's favor. If she looks like a kicked puppy, he's in trouble.


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## jillian

a shout out??? 

please say she didn't say that.


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## Modbert

Gem said:


> Who told her to say shit like that?  My god, I just want to bitch-slap political advisors sometimes!  lol.



And she says No Child Left Behind needs more funding?

Where is McCain going to get it from then supposedly if she made that huge point on Obama earlier? 

NCLB is a fucking travesty to the educational system.


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## clane1987

jsanders said:


> Clearly she's trying to control the tone and keep it light. That actually works in Biden's favor. If she looks like a kicked puppy, he's in trouble.



How do you figure that? Because she is a woman?


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## eots

a shout out ??..is she going getto on us now...yo representin the rep par-tee...i want send a shout out....omg


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## Modbert

jillian said:


> a shout out???
> 
> please say she didn't say that.



Joe Biden should have a shout out to his homies on the West Side then.


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## Modbert

EXCELLENT point by Biden on No Child Left Behind.


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## Jon

clane1987 said:


> How do you figure that? Because she is a woman?



Yes, exactly. His attacks on Clinton gave her so many votes in the primaries. Making the same mistake here isn't wise.


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## jillian

"I can't wait to get there and go to work with _ya_??


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## jillian

Modbert said:


> Joe Biden should have a shout out to his homies on the West Side then.



Word...


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## Gem

> NCLB is a fucking travesty to the educational system.



Most of our public education system is a joke - I don't think either side has a plan that will fix it.  Throwing all the money in the world at NCLB wouldn't fix that ludicrous legislation, but boy will they try to throw more and more money at education just hoping that the problem will go away.


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## MichaelCollins

Modbert said:


> Iraq isn't going to be fixed for a very long time. However, we're not there to be Bob the Builder. We can't babysit Iraq forever.



Why not? You started it...so you fix it.


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## Jon

MichaelCollins said:


> Why not? You started it...so you fix it.



I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with MC. Now I'm going to kill myself.


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## Modbert

Gem said:


> Most of our public education system is a joke - I don't think either side has a plan that will fix it.  Throwing all the money in the world at NCLB wouldn't fix that ludicrous legislation, but boy will they try to throw more and more money at education just hoping that the problem will go away.



Exactly, but least Obama is against NCLB being good thus far. I give him credit for that.

McCain is still delusional thinking it has done well for the education system.

And awesome point by Biden on Cheney.


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## eots

WillowTree said:


> that's because you are an idiot. not to mention blind and deaf.



ya...I  dont think so...but the more this woman talks the more appealing blind and deaf seem


----------



## clane1987

The joke is that in Texas they administer the TAKS test which takes away from the educational system as a whole because you only learn what will be own those test and you do not get a broad spectrum of the education in which our youth deserves.


----------



## CactusCarlos

MichaelCollins said:


> Why not? You started it...so you fix it.



Still not making sense.  Have another drink and try again.


----------



## jillian

She really shouldn't talk about her "experience" when standing next to Joe Biden.

Go Joe... the idea of the vice president being part of the legislative branch is a bizarre notion....

I love him.


----------



## eots

jillian said:


> "I can't wait to get there and go to work with _ya_??



In reference to education ..no less


----------



## Modbert

jsanders said:


> I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with MC. Now I'm going to kill myself.



I didn't start it personally, the Bush Administration did.

We can "fix" it all we want but we'll be there for a very LONG time. As in many many years.

If we never let the Iraqi Gov't have control and run their own country then they will never learn so once we do leave all that hard work will collapse.


----------



## Isolde

I was truly hoping for a Ted Baxter moment and he failed to deliver.


----------



## CactusCarlos

Isolde said:


> I was truly hoping for a Ted Baxter moment and he failed to deliver.



Maybe he's tired from getting in people's faces all day.


----------



## WillowTree

when's he gonna say "I have a bracelet too."?


----------



## Gem

"Some people say my biggest fault is that I have too much passion."

BARF!!!  A bit like people in job interviews saying that one of their negative qualities is that they're such a perfectionist.


----------



## Modbert

Joe Biden bringing in his own personal story on all this. And he relates so well to the average American because he really is when you get down to it.


----------



## WillowTree

Modbert said:


> Joe Biden bringing in his own personal story on all this. And he relates so well to the average American because he really is when you get down to it.





yes we know, he has a bracelet too.


----------



## Modbert

Lieberman, Guiliani, and Romney? All diverse backgrounds and Mavericks?

Wow she lost any credibility she had left.


----------



## notomccain

it was  pretty  much boring as they all are. biden gets a b+, palin a c-


----------



## jillian

Her talking about being a maverick after his story seemed really shallow. 

His audience reaction went off the chart ...


----------



## MichaelCollins

CactusCarlos said:


> Still not making sense.  Have another drink and try again.




Let me explain darling ..as you are an american.

BUSHTEAM invaded Iraq ..because they needed fake wars to justify huge defence spending...also other military/industrial complex profit reasons...but dont want to confuse you.  Suffice to say..it was a fake war....totally unprovoked...illegal and the act of terrorists.

So seeing as the US public supported this fake war and real terrorism... you should stay there until it is fixed.

No charge,

Michael


----------



## Jon

Modbert said:


> Joe Biden bringing in his own personal story on all this. And he relates so well to the average American because he really is when you get down to it.



He is, you're right. But so is Palin.


----------



## Gem

Joe's story is touching....but no one who has been in Washington for as long as he has is "one of us" anymore, I'm sorry.

He's been a US Senator since he was 29 years old...he's as out-of-touch with mainstream America as they come.  

I'm not saying that Sarah the Moosehunter is down-to-earth and one of us...but Biden certainly isn't either.


----------



## kane3o1

Biden is owning....


----------



## jillian

jsanders said:


> He is, you're right. But so is Palin.



I don't think she's connecting here... she's holding her own, but I don't see that... 

And Biden's eviscerating her right now on the whole "maverick" thing.


----------



## clane1987

Biden's comment on McCains "maverick" personality was gold! He had some great facts to go with it!


----------



## MichaelCollins

BIden said he has been in public office for 35 years...and 

"hasn't changed in that time".

Is that a positive quality... not to have changed in 35 years?


----------



## Modbert

Gem said:


> Joe's story is touching....but no one who has been in Washington for as long as he has is "one of us" anymore, I'm sorry.
> 
> He's been a US Senator since he was 29 years old...he's as out-of-touch with mainstream America as they come.
> 
> I'm not saying that Sarah the Moosehunter is down-to-earth and one of us...but Biden certainly isn't either.



Sarah Palin's family makes almost as much as his family does a year.

And nice job by Biden on dispelling the Maverick Myth.


----------



## Gem

Yeah...the Democrats were all about McCain the Maverick...until they realized they had to run against him.


----------



## MichaelCollins

If the hillbilly says MAVERICK again...  i am going to shove James Garner up her ....


----------



## WillowTree

Gem said:


> Joe's story is touching....but no one who has been in Washington for as long as he has is "one of us" anymore, I'm sorry.
> 
> He's been a US Senator since he was 29 years old...he's as out-of-touch with mainstream America as they come.
> 
> I'm not saying that Sarah the Moosehunter is down-to-earth and one of us...but Biden certainly isn't either.






Sarah the moosehunter is so very down to earth.


----------



## Modbert

WillowTree said:


> Sarah the moosehunter is so very down to earth.



Because having a tanning bed in your home and owning a Piper PA-18 is middle class.


----------



## Jon

Modbert said:


> Sarah Palin's family makes almost as much as his family does a year.
> 
> And nice job by Biden on dispelling the Maverick Myth.



Biden is a career politician. He's a lawyer turned politician who cares only about politics. Palin was a stay-at-home mom who didn't like where her city was headed and stepped up to change that. She propelled herself into the governor's mansion because of her passion for change in the state of Alaska. I'm more like her than I'll ever be like Biden.


----------



## AVG-JOE

I had 'change' for a drinking word tonight.

I am so drunk!

The girl who had 'Maverick' just passed out...

-Joe


----------



## Gem

> Sarah Palin's family makes almost as much as his family does a year.



Yeah, shes a governor and her husband works fairly dangerous jobs.  So what?
As I said, I'm not saying that shes Mrs. Main Street...but to say that a man who has spent the vast majority of his entire career as a Washington insider is the height of naivete...no one, on the left or right who is in the Senate for that long is "one of the people..."   Its not what our founding fathers intended...and its not what we should have happen...but thats a discussion for another time.


----------



## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> I had 'change' for a drinking word tonight.
> 
> I am so drunk!
> 
> The girl who had 'Maverick' just passed out...
> 
> -Joe


----------



## CactusCarlos

MichaelCollins said:


> If the hillbilly says MAVERICK again...  i am going to shove James Garner up her ....



You're not going to do anything.


----------



## jillian

Gem said:


> Yeah...the Democrats were all about McCain the Maverick...until they realized they had to run against him.



no. it's because he ISN'T one anymore. He was 8 years ago, though. i don't think he's ever been the same since he got push-polled by Karl Rove.


----------



## Jon

Modbert said:


> Because having a tanning bed in your home and owning a Piper PA-18 is middle class.



Tanning beds can run as low as $1,500. Yes, I'd definitely say that's middle class.


----------



## WillowTree

Modbert said:


> Because having a tanning bed in your home and owning a Piper PA-18 is middle class.





I have had the pleasure of owning two airplanes. Bought and paid for with middle class wages. What's yer point?


----------



## MichaelCollins

AVG-JOE said:


> I had 'change' for a drinking word tonight.
> 
> I am so drunk!
> 
> The girl who had 'Maverick' just passed out...
> 
> -Joe



LMAO

I had Ahmadinejad....   and i was so sober until Palin learnt his name.... then i had to drink 48 double vodkas in 11 and half seconds.


----------



## eots

OK so clearly Obama has the election in the bag...so at least we only have to worry about global socialism..and don't have to fear the crazy lady and the old midget ushering in the armageddon..that's something...,the bright side if you will


----------



## clane1987

She's happy she got embarrassed? Strange indeed!


----------



## Modbert

Gem said:


> Yeah, shes a governor and her husband works fairly dangerous jobs.  So what?
> As I said, I'm not saying that shes Mrs. Main Street...but to say that a man who has spent the vast majority of his entire career as a Washington insider is the height of naivete...no one, on the left or right who is in the Senate for that long is "one of the people..."   Its not what our founding fathers intended...and its not what we should have happen...but thats a discussion for another time.



Might not want to bring Ben Franklin into that discussion at a later point.


----------



## Jon

MichaelCollins said:


> LMAO
> 
> I had Ahmadinejad....   and i was so sober until Palin learnt his name.... then i had to drink 48 double vodkas in 11 and half seconds.



I would have used Obama...


----------



## CactusCarlos

MichaelCollins said:


> then i had to drink 48 double vodkas in 11 and half seconds.



That's just warming up for you, isn't it?


----------



## WillowTree

she just put a twist in the mainstream medias pretzel...


----------



## Gem

Ok, come on...in Alaska owning a little plane like this is like owning a second car...lol.  There are places in AK you can't even get to unless you go in a plane.  

Piper PA-18 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Modbert

Joe Biden won this debate without coming off as sexist.

That's what the Obama/Biden campaign wanted to do as a goal, and I think they succeeded.


----------



## kane3o1

Biden won


----------



## MichaelCollins

Will Palin resign her candidacy after this shamefully embarassing performance?


----------



## WillowTree

CactusCarlos said:


> That's just warming up for you, isn't it?



he dosen't have any teeth to get in the way.. no friction


----------



## Gem

> Might not want to bring Ben Franklin into that discussion at a later point.



You're right, our nation's first "full-time politician" would probably love how long so many men have managed to hold on to such a cushy, well-paid job.


----------



## dilloduck

She's a real person. She's good and far from being the idiot that everyone is trying to portray he as. A rookie holds her own against a seasoned vet.


----------



## Modbert

jsanders said:


> I would have used Obama...



Sarah Palin would of had you passed out.


----------



## MichaelCollins

kane3o1 said:


> Biden won



Oh well done ... Biden beat an uneducated, untravelled hillbilly "hockey mom".

He must be so proud.

Do you think the "Bosniacs" who he voted to save...will be happy??


----------



## WillowTree

Biden has a very nice looking wife.


----------



## Gem

I liked when she said, "Obama and O'Biden."  LOL.


----------



## Jon

kane3o1 said:


> Biden won



Yes, but did he land a knockout? No. She held her own.


----------



## Modbert

Gem said:


> You're right, our nation's first "full-time politician" would probably love how long so many men have managed to hold on to such a cushy, well-paid job.



Or how about Thomas Jefferson?

30+ years in Politics.

And guess what Thomas Jefferson was before his career in politics?

Survey says: Lawyer!


----------



## CactusCarlos

WillowTree said:


> Biden has a very nice looking wife.



His plugs looked good tonight.


----------



## kane3o1

jsanders said:


> Yes, but did he land a knockout? No. She held her own.



How, by saying the same stuff over and over again? LOL


----------



## I Missthe North

Way to go Biden.  Very good debate.  I just don't like how Palin believes that America is crumbling and the only one who can save it is McCain.  It was so negative and was more of the same from Bush's Administration.  Instill fear in America and they will follow.  Its so sad.


----------



## CactusCarlos

MichaelCollins said:


> Oh well done ... Biden beat an uneducated, untravelled hillbilly "hockey mom".
> 
> He must be so proud.



And no matter whether McCain wins or Obama wins, your opinion would have meant squat.  Go drink some more.


----------



## Modbert

I'll say this much, Joe Biden and Sarah Palin get along better then John McCain and Obama do.


----------



## eots

no knock out..but she will be pukin up blood later from the body punches...while biden enjoys a drink with the boys


----------



## SwingVoter

MichaelCollins said:


> Will Palin resign her candidacy after this shamefully embarassing performance?



Then why'd you stay up til 3:30am UK time to watch it?


----------



## CactusCarlos

Modbert said:


> I'll say this much, Joe Biden and Sarah Palin get along better then John McCain and Obama do.



That seems to be the case, and it's nice to see that.


----------



## WillowTree

I Missthe North said:


> Way to go Biden.  Very good debate.  I just don't like how Palin believes that America is crumbling and the only one who can save it is McCain.  It was so negative and was more of the same from Bush's Administration.  Instill fear in America and they will follow.  Its so sad.





oh shitsky... you complain about negativity? omg


----------



## Gem

> Or how about Thomas Jefferson?



"Jefferson achieved distinction as, among other things, a horticulturist, statesman, architect, archaeologist, paleontologist, author, inventor and founder of the University of Virginia."

From Wikipedia.

If you want to be happy about the fact that our system encourages men and women to come into Washington and then do whatever the need to to stay their as long as possible....I just don't think that this system promotes men and women "of the people."

To quote "Gladiator," as silly as that sounds...I think that the best our system can do is create men "not of the people, but for the people."  Sometimes thats good enough...often I think it leads to corrupt, tired politicians who sell their souls to keep their jobs.


----------



## I Missthe North

jsanders said:


> Yes, but did he land a knockout? No. She held her own.



Congratulations.  A vice presidential candidate holding her own against another vice presidential candidate.  It is sad how you consider that a victory.  Even you know she sucks.


----------



## del

dilloduck said:


> She's a real person. She's good and far from being the idiot that everyone is trying to portray he as. A rookie holds her own against a seasoned vet.



she did better than i expected, but they should condition her not to use the word "maverick", even if it requires a cattle prod.

pretty good debate overall, but i thought the moderator was very weak. i was half expecting the "what kind of tree would you be?" question.


----------



## jillian

del said:


> she did better than i expected, but they should condition her not to use the word "maverick", even if it requires a cattle prod.
> 
> pretty good debate overall, but i thought the moderator was very weak. i was half expecting the "what kind of tree would you be?" question.



that's b/c the right spent the last two days "playing the ref"... had she asked really tough questions they'd have said she was "biased".


----------



## Jon

I Missthe North said:


> Congratulations.  A vice presidential candidate holding her own against another vice presidential candidate.  It is sad how you consider that a victory.  Even you know she sucks.



Clearly I said Biden won the debate. What the fuck else do you want to hear?


----------



## Gem

ah, I was waiting for that.


----------



## Seraph

I think it was a tie


----------



## clane1987

Biden won this debate from opening statements and the only twist conservatives can put on this is that "she connected with you the people."


----------



## Jon

Seraph said:


> I think it was a tie



I wouldn't go that far. Biden clearly highlighted his experience as a politician. Rather that's a good or bad thing depends on who you are. For a man running on a ticket of change, highlighting 35 years of changing nothing is hardly a great way to win a debate.

Still, Biden knew the material better. But Palin surprised me, especially after seeing her interviews with Couric. She didn't let herself get knocked down.

I can't wait to see FactCheck.org's analysis.


----------



## del

jillian said:


> that's b/c the right spent the last two days "playing the ref"... had she asked really tough questions they'd have said she was "biased".



i'm afraid i have to disagree. she just doesn't strike me as very acute.
i don't know that she could formulate a tough question.


----------



## I Missthe North

jsanders said:


> Clearly I said Biden won the debate. What the fuck else do you want to hear?



I just think its hilarious how you think it is special that she held her own.  It shows you obviously have a lack of faith in her and her abilities.  It is nice to know you support people you don't actually believe it.  That is a good voting strategy.


----------



## WillowTree

Well let me just say that barring all moonbats who don't have mind enough to change it...


After this weeks fuck ups in Washington, I would just guess that middle America is fed the hell up with slick politicians and that Sarah Palin's down to earth "work with ya" is going to sell with the average ordinary American.


----------



## Gem

> I just think its hilarious how you think it is special that she held her own. It shows you obviously have a lack of faith in her and her abilities. It is nice to know you support people you don't actually believe it. That is a good voting strategy.



Eh, give me a break.  They said the same thing about Obama...that he held his own in policy discussions with the more experience McCain.  It IS a strength when the less experienced candidate can hold their own and continue to remain on equal footing with the veteran politician.


----------



## Dr Grump

Look, I didn't see the debate because I was at work. That aside, forget the freaking debate, WTF is she even doing there?


----------



## Missourian

The independents gave Gov. Palin the win.


----------



## WillowTree

clane1987 said:


> Biden won this debate from opening statements and the only twist conservatives can put on this is that *"she connected with you the people."*







and that's the whole fucking ballgame right there!


----------



## Jon

I Missthe North said:


> I just think its hilarious how you think it is special that she held her own.



Special? No. The fact that she can hold her own against a career politician like Biden is a remarkable. He's got 30 years of experience over her, he should have chewed her up and spit her out. He didn't.


----------



## Modbert

Missourian said:


> The independents gave Gov. Palin the win.



Where?

It's been 10 mins or so since the end of the debate. I don't believe they could poll thousands of people in 10 minutes unless they are the Flash.


----------



## eots

this wont be like gore right ?...after she loses this thing she will _disappear_ like Kerry...right ?


----------



## Modbert

I think we can all agree on this:

I wish they should Debate more then once. I feel that even another debate would be good enough but only one isn't.


----------



## Gem

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by clane1987 View Post
> Biden won this debate from opening statements and the only twist conservatives can put on this is that *"she connected with you the people.*"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and that's the whole fucking ballgame right there!
Click to expand...


You know...people like us, who pay attention to politics and the issues find it frustrating that that would be a deciding factor...

But for the Undecided Voters, who for whatever reason don't consider the candidates platforms to be important enough to sway their decision...they are obviously looking for something else to sway them...


----------



## kane3o1

WTF was that old lady and that McCain supporter talking about? LOL


----------



## I Missthe North

WillowTree said:


> Well let me just say that barring all moonbats who don't have mind enough to change it...
> 
> 
> After this weeks fuck ups in Washington, I would just guess that middle America is fed the hell up with slick politicians and that Sarah Palin's down to earth "work with ya" is going to sell with the average ordinary American.



Really?  Joe Biden was doing the same thing.  He made it very clear he wants to help the American middle class.  Just because he did not go out of his way to avoid questions just to continue ranting about how working class and average his family (when it clearly is not) like Palin did, does not mean he did not appeal to the middle class.  He anecdotes were much more effective and he delivered them with passion.  That will make more of an impact on people then her telling everyone how average she is; Biden showed them.


----------



## del

I Missthe North said:


> I just think its hilarious how you think it is special that she held her own.  It shows you obviously have a lack of faith in her and her abilities.  It is nice to know you support people you don't actually believe it.  That is a good voting strategy.



biden spent the past 30+ years doing nothing but debate. that's what senators do. that she more or less held her own is a) surprising and b) fairly impressive.


----------



## dilloduck

del said:


> she did better than i expected, but they should condition her not to use the word "maverick", even if it requires a cattle prod.
> 
> pretty good debate overall, but i thought the moderator was very weak. i was half expecting the "what kind of tree would you be?" question.




Repetition is the mother of learning. Very few things will stick in a voters mind.
It might get boring to politophiles but he's banking heavily on being seen as different.
I liked her--she's obviously smart, calm under pressure and the closest thing to a real person I've seen debate.
Imagine her not having to campaign under the restraints that are place on here. If America really ulimately wants a female president, she's the kind they want. Not some tough bitch in pant suits.


----------



## dilloduck

WillowTree said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and that's the whole fucking ballgame right there!





exactly---the winner will be decided in November.


----------



## Missourian

Modbert said:


> Where?
> 
> It's been 10 mins or so since the end of the debate. I don't believe they could poll thousands of people in 10 minutes unless they are the Flash.





LOL, no it was the focus group on the local channel.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

My fear has been realized. Joe Biden mopped the floor with Palin's ass. Defining moment: Biden choking back tears when speaking about knowing what it is like to be a single dad and not knowing if your son was going to live or die. 

President Barack Hussein Obama..... God help us all.


----------



## Dirt McGirt

Sarah was at her best when she was unscripted and Biden closed stronger. Ironically both veeps candidates couldn't capitalize on their strongpoints. Sarah didn't sound good talking about energy and Biden looked like he might have stumbled around a bit on foreign policy. But in the end, both veep candidates rose above the low expectations placed on them. Neither candidate hurt their running mate and both of them came off as looking "Vice Presidential."


----------



## Jon

Missourian said:


> LOL, no it was the focus group on the local channel.



We might have seen the same one.


----------



## Modbert

Missourian said:


> LOL, no it was the focus group on the local channel.



Interesting, I can't wait to see the polling numbers for Independents on who they think won.


----------



## Jon

CrimsonWhite said:


> My fear has been realized. Joe Biden mopped the floor with Palin's ass. Defining moment: Biden choking back tears when speaking about knowing what it is like to be a single dad and not knowing if your son was going to live or die.



If Sarah talked about how hard it is to raise a special needs child, people would say she was using her family for political gain.


----------



## Gem

I didn't find that moment to be hackneyed.  You've got a kid in harms way...you're going to be concerned and emotional about it.  They both talked about that.


----------



## jschuck12001

jsanders said:


> Special? No. The fact that she can hold her own against a career politician like Biden is a remarkable. He's got 30 years of experience over her, he should have chewed her up and spit her out. He didn't.



He didnt because he would have got hammered for being "rude"  Joe had to walk a fine line and play pussy and he did it and still won.  Palin made mistakes when name dropping and she kept going back to energy when she felt out of her league and Joe laid off her because when your in the driver seat there is no reason to give the Republicans anything to talk about.  The republicans are happy because Palin restored her respect and that is sad when your running for Vice President and you have to fight for respect 4 weeks before the election.  I do think she was competent but rarely could give a straight answer.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> My fear has been realized. Joe Biden mopped the floor with Palin's ass. Defining moment: Biden choking back tears when speaking about knowing what it is like to be a single dad and not knowing if your son was going to live or die.
> 
> President Barack Hussein Obama..... God help us all.





You sound like me whenever I see McCain walk into a room.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8ZTTsiJupo]YouTube - Star Wars Imperial March Music Video[/ame]


----------



## Dirt McGirt

CrimsonWhite said:


> My fear has been realized. Joe Biden mopped the floor with Palin's ass. Defining moment: Biden choking back tears when speaking about knowing what it is like to be a single dad and not knowing if your son was going to live or die.


I'm usually skeptical about Biden whenever he talks about God, family, morals, etc. He just seems so phoney when he talks about that stuff, I usually do an eye roll whenever he tries to appeal to the audience. But I will say that I agree with you there, he did come off as genuine and moving during that part of the debate.


----------



## dilloduck

Modbert said:


> Interesting, I can't wait to see the polling numbers for Independents on who they think won.



This obsession with numbers is what got everyone pissed in 2000. "This vote can't be right---the polls said something different. Someone cheated "


----------



## Modbert

dilloduck said:


> This obsession with numbers is what got everyone pissed in 2000. "This vote can't be right---the polls said something different. Someone cheated "



Well it's true, Bush did cheat.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

jsanders said:


> Special? No. The fact that she can hold her own against a career politician like Biden is a remarkable. He's got 30 years of experience over her, he should have chewed her up and spit her out. He didn't.



Uh, yes he did.


----------



## Dr Grump

jsanders said:


> If Sarah talked about how hard it is to raise a special needs child, people would say she was using her family for political gain.




I know two families that raise Downs Syndrome kids. Hardly affects them at all. That aside, she's hardly raised the kid at all - he's what? Five months old??


----------



## jillian

jsanders said:


> Special? No. The fact that she can hold her own against a career politician like Biden is a remarkable. He's got 30 years of experience over her, he should have chewed her up and spit her out. He didn't.



he did chew her up and spit her out on substance.

And anyone of us here could have too.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Uh, yes he did.



Jsanders was looking for Joe to go unleashed on Sarah.

If he did that, McCain campaign would of cried sexist from here to Alaska.

Though I'm sure some will say he was sexist still.


----------



## Modbert

Dr Grump said:


> I have two families I know how raise Downs Syndrome kids. Hardly affects them at all. That aside, she's hardly raised the kid at all - he's what? Five months old??



And she's been campaigning more often now plus her Governor duties before that.


----------



## dilloduck

CrimsonWhite said:


> Uh, yes he did.



In a manner that will just send votes pouring over to Obama tho ? I'm not so sure


----------



## I Missthe North

jsanders said:


> If Sarah talked about how hard it is to raise a special needs child, people would say she was using her family for political gain.



As if she has not been doing this since she has been on the ticket.  Lets be serious.  It was a very honest moment for Biden and I thought it showed just how "average" he is (since you Republicans love to use that term now for some reason even though your party has never represented the "average person").  He is vulnerable like everyone else and has feelings and emotions in a tough family situation.  I thought it endeared him greatly to the American public.


----------



## kane3o1

CNN Poll so far: Who fared better in the vice presidential debate?

Sen. Joe Biden: 	74% 	  36986
Gov. Sarah Palin: 23%  11417
Neither: 3% 1294
Total Votes: 49697


----------



## Red Dawn

Jesus, does she know anything of substance, does she know any policy details, or is she just a wind up doll that can repeat empty rhetoric and talking points? 

Biden knows what the fuck he's talking about.   God help us if she has to take over for McCain if the old man croaks.


----------



## Dr Grump

kane3o1 said:


> CNN Poll so far: Who fared better in the vice presidential debate?
> 
> Sen. Joe Biden: 	74% 	  36986
> Gov. Sarah Palin: 23%  11417
> Neither: 3% 1294
> Total Votes: 49697



11,000 people thought she won?? <faints in disbelief>


----------



## jillian

dilloduck said:


> In a manner that will just send votes pouring over to Obama tho ? I'm not so sure



right now, mccain was the one who needed the votes pouring over to him to change the momentum. and he didn't get it.


----------



## dilloduck

jillian said:


> right now, mccain was the one who needed the votes pouring over to him to change the momentum. and he didn't get it.



and you know this ?  How?


----------



## Modbert

Dr Grump said:


> 11,000 people thought she won?? <faints in disbelief>



I can believe that since around 50,000,000+ fools voted for Dubya.


----------



## NOBama

del said:


> biden spent the past 30+ years doing nothing but debate. that's what senators do. that she more or less held her own is a) surprising and b) fairly impressive.



I agree, Del and given the fact that she was widely (as in nationwide) considered the underdog coming into tonight's debate: She not only held her own, she gave Biden a run for the money. 

I think the McCain ticket will get a boost in the polls based on her performance tonight. In fact, if they can both go for a few days without any major blunders, I think the McCain ticket will be a point or 2 ahead of the Obama ticket by Monday.


----------



## Missourian

I think she *won over Senator Biden*.

Did you see them after the debate was over?  Usually the opponents shake hands perfunctorily and  but Joe and Sarah were talking like old friends.  I've never seen that before.  Did anyone else notice that?


----------



## Red Dawn

the first scientific poll of the debate is out. 


CBS Poll:   Biden Wins 46% to 21% among undecided voters 

CBS NEWS/KNOWLEDGE NETWORKS POLL
(Uncommitted Voters who watched the debate)

46% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Joe Biden was the winner. 21% thought Sarah Palin won, 33% thought it was a draw 98% after the debate saw [Biden] as knowledgeable (79% before the debate)


----------



## eots

dilloduck said:


> and you know this ?  How?



because she is smarter than you...


----------



## cristal

Sarah Barracuda rocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You go girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Modbert

Missourian said:


> I think she *won over Senator Biden*.
> 
> Did you see them after the debate was over?  Usually the opponents shake hands perfunctorily and  but Joe and Sarah were talking like old friends.  I've never seen that before.  Did anyone else notice that?



You thought she won Missourian? Bad call

And I mentioned that earlier, I was surprised to see them chating in a amable way but nice to see I suppose.


----------



## Modbert

Red Dawn said:


> the first scientific poll of the debate is out.
> 
> 
> CBS Poll:   Biden Wins 46% to 21% among undecided voters
> 
> CBS NEWS/KNOWLEDGE NETWORKS POLL
> (Uncommitted Voters who watched the debate)
> 
> 46% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Joe Biden was the winner. 21% thought Sarah Palin won, 33% thought it was a draw 98% after the debate saw [Biden] as knowledgeable (79% before the debate)



The 98% see Biden as knowledgeable is huge. Plus Biden came out on top without seeming sexist to people.


----------



## dilloduck

Absolutely worthless numbers--Why don't they ask important questions like " Which one will you vote for? " and even that answer is iffy.


----------



## Red Dawn

Modbert said:


> The 98% see Biden as knowledgeable is huge. Plus Biden came out on top without seeming sexist to people.




I'd like to talk to the 2% of people who didn't think Biden seemed highly knowledgeable. 


I want to know what they're smoking, and where I can get some.


----------



## Missourian

Modbert said:


> You thought she won Missourian? Bad call
> 
> And I mentioned that earlier, I was surprised to see them chating in a amable way but nice to see I suppose.




No, won him over.


----------



## Modbert

Red Dawn said:


> I'd like to talk to the 2% of people who didn't think Biden seemed highly knowledgeable.
> 
> 
> I want to know what they're smoking, and where I can get some.



Same here, those are probably part of the 2% who say yes when they think Bush is doing a great job as President and one of the best of all time.


----------



## dilloduck

Modbert said:


> The 98% see Biden as knowledgeable is huge. Plus Biden came out on top without seeming sexist to people.



really--there was a poll about whether he was sexist or not ?


----------



## jschuck12001

Modbert said:


> You thought she won Missourian? Bad call
> 
> And I mentioned that earlier, I was surprised to see them chating in a amable way but nice to see I suppose.



I wasnt surprised, Biden played like a football team up by 35 points with 5 minutes to go in the game, he wasnt going to go apeshit on her and have that be the focus for the next week or so but I dont understand how anyone can see palin winning on substance.  Did she say anything that was factual all night, did she make a good point about policy.  Please someone give me just 1.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

dilloduck said:


> In a manner that will just send votes pouring over to Obama tho ? I'm not so sure



Perhaps not, but Biden overwhelmingly won this on style and substance. If she quit smiling and quit pulling punches she could have done better, but she didn't and she lost. As for changing the hearts and minds? That will be up to McCain in the next two. Hopefully he will be the McCain I he used to be and come out swinging.


----------



## Modbert

Missourian said:


> No, won him over.



Oh okay, big difference then.

I think Joe Biden is a friendly guy in general. Barack Obama I could see playing a game of basketball with and a nice conversation.

With Joe Biden I'm sure it'd be something else and lots to talk about.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Perhaps not, but Biden overwhelmingly won this on style and substance. If she quit smiling and quit pulling punches she could have done better, but she didn't and she lost. As for changing the hearts and minds? That will be up to McCain in the next two. Hopefully he will be the McCain I he used to be and come out swinging.



I thought she was on botox with how much she was smiling while talking about some pretty bad stuff.


----------



## Navy1960

I have been an outspoken critic of Sarah Palin based on her last few interviews she came off completely unprepared and looked  as if her knowledge level was so low that it would have been best for her to take the next plane back to  Anchorage.  However, in this case based on Joe Bidens years of experience, and her lack of it, and she did a pretty decent job of holding her own tonight and in this case a tie was better than a win for her as  it was expected that Joe Biden would crush her and it was more or less a tie.  So in this case I think she did a pretty good job tonight and , it's more than likely going to help in the polls.


----------



## xsited1

I'm happy that men are again ruling this country.  I was worried when Hillary ran, but the Democrats would not let her have the nomination.  The media has crushed Palin.  No more women in politics, please.


----------



## Red Dawn

Next Scientific Poll

CNN:  Biden Wins 51% to 36%


----------



## NOBama

Navy1960 said:


> *So in this case I think she did a pretty good job tonight and , it's more than likely going to help in the polls.*



Here, here, I second that notion.


----------



## dilloduck

CrimsonWhite said:


> Perhaps not, but Biden overwhelmingly won this on style and substance. If she quit smiling and quit pulling punches she could have done better, but she didn't and she lost. As for changing the hearts and minds? That will be up to McCain in the next two. Hopefully he will be the McCain I he used to be and come out swinging.



It's hard to tell what the strategy really is here. Sometimes I think she is also being packaged as someone to counteract the image the McCain has of flying off the handle. Win the debate or not--I trust her more than any of them. She's not TRYING to use style. Style comes across as phony. She's just who she is. I hope she goes far somewhere, sometime.


----------



## Red Dawn

CrimsonWhite said:


> Perhaps not, but Biden overwhelmingly won this on style and substance. If she quit smiling and quit pulling punches she could have done better, but she didn't and she lost. As for changing the hearts and minds? That will be up to McCain in the next two. Hopefully he will be the McCain I he used to be and come out swinging.




I thought the "shout out" to third graders was really amateur hour, and really didn't seem presidential.   It seemed like something somebody running for city council would do.


----------



## Missourian

Red Dawn said:


> Next Scientific Poll
> 
> CNN:  Biden Wins 51% to 36%



And 13% thought it was a tie?

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

30 years of experience an how many debates for Biden?


----------



## Modbert

Red Dawn said:


> I thought the "shout out" to third graders was really amateur hour, and really didn't seem presidential.   It seemed like something somebody running for city council would do.



I wanted to see Joe Biden throw a "shout out" to his buddy Obama and Biden's buddies on the West Side.


----------



## Navy1960

Does anyone else get the strange feeling that Sarah Palin is getting groomed for the future in the party?  For some strange reason, I was watching the debate tonight and thought, this sure seems like she is getting trained to be the next big thing in the party someday.


----------



## NOBama

FNC poll: Palin 86%, Biden 12%


----------



## eots

that was her flailing attempt to court the black vote....a shout out


----------



## Modbert

Missourian said:


> And 13% thought it was a tie?
> 
> Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
> 
> 30 years of experience an how many debates for Biden?





> At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.
> 
> McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.
> 
> The wrangling was chiefly between the McCain-Palin camp and the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates, which is sponsoring the forums.
> 
> Advisers to Mr. Biden say they were comfortable with either format.



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html


----------



## Jeepers

Navy1960 said:


> I have been an outspoken critic of Sarah Palin based on her last few interviews she came off completely unprepared and looked  as if her knowledge level was so low that it would have been best for her to take the next plane back to  Anchorage.  However, in this case based on Joe Bidens years of experience, and her lack of it, and she did a pretty decent job of holding her own tonight and in this case a tie was better than a win for her as  it was expected that Joe Biden would crush her and it was more or less a tie.  So in this case I think she did a pretty good job tonight and , it's more than likely going to help in the polls.



She did well in the fact that she didnt fall on her face.. she however ducked question after question while resorting to rhetoric time and again... really didnt hear anything here worthy of mention from macs camp...


----------



## dilloduck

Navy1960 said:


> Does anyone else get the strange feeling that Sarah Palin is getting groomed for the future in the party?  For some strange reason, I was watching the debate tonight and thought, this sure seems like she is getting trained to be the next big thing in the party someday.



Damn straight ! It's the Republican woman weapon !


----------



## Modbert

NObama said:


> FNC poll: Palin 86%, Biden 12%



FNC poll has been disprovened by it's own hosts.

Besides, when you have a majority republican viewing audience, how else are they going to vote?


----------



## Red Dawn

NObama said:


> FNC poll: Palin 86%, Biden 12%



Your not fooling anyone.  That's not a scientific poll. 

Everybody expects the dittoheads to go on the fox website for the online poll and vote for palin.


----------



## Modbert

To be honest, Joe Biden WON folks.

Sarah Palin may of won in the fact she didn't look like a complete fool as usual. But that's not a overall victory, just the fact she didn't screw up.

If we've come so far and so low to now base a victory off her not basically setting the McCain campaign on fire accidently then we've truly lost our way as a nation.


----------



## Jeepers

dilloduck said:


> Damn straight ! It's the Republican woman weapon !



Still an embarrassment to professional women in general.. surviving a debate is nothing to be proud of... unless we now hold mediocracy in high esteem...


----------



## NOBama

Modbert said:


> FNC poll has been disprovened by it's own hosts.
> 
> Besides, when you have a majority republican viewing audience, how else are they going to vote?



I  understand, it's the exact opposite of CNN


----------



## jillian

Modbert said:


> FNC poll has been disprovened by it's own hosts.
> 
> Besides, when you have a majority republican viewing audience, how else are they going to vote?



The votes for Biden aren't registering...at least not right now. So I wouldn't take the 12% number real seriously.


----------



## Red Dawn

Ha!  Diebold must have engineered that Fox News online poll.  

I just tried to vote for Biden, and it wouldn't let me.  It gave me an error message.


----------



## dilloduck

Jeepers said:


> Still an embarrassment to women in general.. surviving a debate is nothing to be proud of...



Really? Women in general were embarassed by her ? How do you know this one?


----------



## Modbert

Red Dawn said:


> Ha!  Diebold must have engineered that Fox News online poll.
> 
> I just tried to vote for Biden, and it wouldn't let me.  It gave me an error message.



 Florida 2000 all over again.


----------



## LeftOfTheMiddle

NObama said:


> FNC poll: Palin 86%, Biden 12%



Wow! That poll came from Fox News? That's shocking...Not! Did you expect anything different?

MSNBC says Biden 53%; Palin 37% - No surprise there either!

These polls are completely biased and mean nothing. I wish people would stop posting this crap as if the BS polls mean anything.


----------



## Jeepers

dilloduck said:


> Really? Women in general were embarassed by her ? How do you know this one?



I am in touch with my feminine side..


----------



## Navy1960

Jeepers said:


> She did well in the fact that she didnt fall on her face.. she however ducked question after question while resorting to rhetoric time and again... really didnt hear anything here worthy of mention from macs camp...



perhaps Jeepers, but in this case given the factors comming into this debate even a tie would be her's . The fact is Joe Biden should have crushed her in this debate which he did not, he did a decent job, but she held he own in the subject areas she knew  , and did not go in depth into the one's she didn't. I didn't see any gotcha moments on one side or the other. however I do think it will be a plus on the McCain side.


----------



## Isolde

xsited1 said:


> I'm happy that men are again ruling this country.  I was worried when Hillary ran, but the Democrats would not let her have the nomination.  The media has crushed Palin.  No more women in politics, please.



oh my...


----------



## dilloduck

LeftOfTheMiddle said:


> Wow! That poll came from Fox News? That's shocking...Not! Did you expect anything different?
> 
> MSNBC says Biden 53%; Palin 37% - No surprise there either!
> 
> These polls are completely biased and mean nothing. I wish people would stop posting this crap as if the BS polls mean anything.



They can't help it----they got a lot riding on this one. 
polls polls polls


----------



## Modbert

Red Dawn said:


> Ha!  Diebold must have engineered that Fox News online poll.
> 
> I just tried to vote for Biden, and it wouldn't let me.  It gave me an error message.



Red Dawn, this is for you.


----------



## Red Dawn

Modbert said:


> To be honest, Joe Biden WON folks.
> 
> Sarah Palin may of won in the fact she didn't look like a complete fool as usual. But that's not a overall victory, just the fact she didn't screw up.
> 
> If we've come so far and so low to now base a victory off her not basically setting the McCain campaign on fire accidently then we've truly lost our way as a nation.




She didn't answer like half the questions.  And although I missed the start of the debate, I heard that she basically stated she wasn't going to answer the questions, if she didn't want to.  

She had rhetoric and talking points.   That's all I saw. 

But, she didn't fall on her face, so I guess that's something.


----------



## Red Dawn

Modbert said:


> Red Dawn, this is for you.
> 
> View attachment 6003



sweet!


----------



## dilloduck

Jeepers said:


> I am in touch with my feminine side..



Don't tell Mani or you wil lbe in the "hottest babe" poll .  
Either that or he will call you !


----------



## I Missthe North

I am perfectly OK with the way things turned out.  Biden only strengthened the resolve of Democratic supporters and swayed some independents to their side.  He was very polished, straight forward, and answered all the questions asked of him in a respectful manner.  Biden had the opportunity to crush Palin more then a few times (naming the wrong general in Afghanistan for one), but decided to be tactful instead.  People who are McCain supporters did not change their minds and probably never will.  Palin held her own; congratulations.  She dodged questions,  failed to address any real issues, cited incorrect information and stuck to the talking points given to her by the McCain staff.  I think when the new agencies look back on it tomorrow, it will be clear that Biden won hands down.  If Republicans are unwilling to change, that is their problem, but I think Biden won enough independents over tonight to make the debate worthwhile.


----------



## Modbert

Red Dawn said:


> She didn't answer like half the questions.  And although I missed the start of the debate, I heard that she basically stated she wasn't going to answer the questions, if she didn't want to.
> 
> She had rhetoric and talking points.   That's all I saw.
> 
> But, she didn't fall on her face, so I guess that's something.



She did state that. It wasn't she was not going to answer the questions if she didn't want to, she didn't know HOW to.

All she did was repeat talking points as you stated.

If I took a drink for everytime she said the words Obama, change, and Maverick I'd be dead from alcohol poisoning at the moment.


----------



## Missourian

I'll be looking for a bump in the polls for McCain.  53 Biden 37 Palin 10 tie is a win for McCain.


----------



## Red Dawn

Did anyone besides me get the sense that she didn't know what "achilles heel" meant, when Ifil asked that question?  

She didn't even attempt to answer the question.  In fact, her answer was the exact opposite of an achilles heel. 

I really think she didn't know what achilles heel means.


----------



## Isolde

LOL Obiden....


----------



## plt42

Modbert said:


> To be honest, Joe Biden WON folks.
> 
> Sarah Palin may of won in the fact she didn't look like a complete fool as usual. But that's not a overall victory, just the fact she didn't screw up.
> 
> If we've come so far and so low to now base a victory off her not basically setting the McCain campaign on fire accidently then we've truly lost our way as a nation.



Totally agree.  Not falling on your face does not constitue a win.  And I'm glad that she did "hang in there".  Less fodder and foul calling from the media.

She spoke only in rehearsed generalities, either avoiding questions requiring details or putting up a smoke screen to avoid the question altogether.  There were a few time when I thought she was still running for Governor of Alaska.  "Hello, Sarah... you've done that."  They really baby-sat her, I thought.  There were several times when she should have been called on not answering the question presented.  I bet Biden's tongue is sore from biting it.

Bottom line for me... nothing in tonight's debate swayed my opinion that Palin is not competent to serve as Vice-President of the United States.  I'm sure she's a nice lady, but....................


----------



## Isolde

Red Dawn said:


> Did anyone besides me get the sense that she didn't know what "achilles heel" meant, when Ifil asked that question?
> 
> She didn't even attempt to answer the question.  In fact, her answer was the exact opposite of an achilles heel.
> 
> I really think she didn't know what achilles heel means.



Yes! I am sure that's it.


----------



## Anguille

dilloduck said:


> Don't tell Mani or you wil lbe in the "hottest babe" poll .
> Either that or he will call you !



jeepers is the Other!!


----------



## Modbert

Missourian said:


> I'll be looking for a bump in the polls for McCain.  53 Biden 37 Palin 10 tie is a win for McCain.



I want to see the polls when tomorrow comes. It could be better for Biden or worse.


----------



## Jeepers

dilloduck said:


> Don't tell Mani or you wil lbe in the "hottest babe" poll .
> Either that or he will call you !



eh.. no worries.. I am probably the worst shaven bank employee in history.. not to mention I've no motivation to shave for some time (wach emp here).


----------



## jschuck12001

dilloduck said:


> They can't help it----they got a lot riding on this one.
> polls polls polls



Those polls sure did mean something in Michigan didnt they, or is Mccain giving up on Michigan because of some other information we dont know about.


----------



## del

Modbert said:


> I want to see the polls when tomorrow comes. It could be better for Biden or worse.



don't go out on a limb!


----------



## plt42

Red Dawn said:


> Did anyone besides me get the sense that she didn't know what "achilles heel" meant, when Ifil asked that question?
> 
> She didn't even attempt to answer the question.  In fact, her answer was the exact opposite of an achilles heel.
> 
> I really think she didn't know what achilles heel means.



That one kind of struck me odd as well.  I kept waiting for her to get to it and she never did.  That's one I think Ifill should have called her on.


----------



## Modbert

del said:


> don't go out on a limb!



Well personally I think many polls aren't really a show of the actual voters unless it's a large number of voters.

For people to say that Palin flat out won this debate though is .

I could understand if maybe they thought she tied or barely lost to Biden but she did not win this debate at all.


----------



## Red Dawn

NObama said:


> FNC poll: Palin 86%, Biden 12%




Uh, now that the vote Biden option is working the Fox poll says Biden 58% Palin 42%


----------



## Navy1960

Isolde said:


> LOL Obiden....



Okay thats funny your getting a rep for that pic.  LOL


----------



## dilloduck

jschuck12001 said:


> Those polls sure did mean something in Michigan didnt they, or is Mccain giving up on Michigan because of some other information we dont know about.



Who knows?--play with polls. Trust them if you like--I'm waiting for the 5th to see who REALLY won the prize and I ain't talking about the debaters cup here.


----------



## plt42

Modbert said:


> Well personally I think many polls aren't really a show of the actual voters unless it's a large number of voters.
> 
> For people to say that Palin flat out won this debate though is .
> 
> I could understand if maybe they thought she tied or barely lost to Biden but she did not win this debate at all.



It'll take a few days for the final vote on the winner.  It always does.


----------



## Otter_Creek

Sarah did a good job, demdumbs are frothing at the mouth with more of the usual hatred.

Have a nice night.


----------



## Otter_Creek

Sarah did a good job, demdumbs are frothing at the mouth with more of their usual hatred.

Have a nice night.


----------



## DiveCon

Modbert said:


> FNC poll has been disprovened by it's own hosts.
> 
> Besides, when you have a majority republican viewing audience, how else are they going to vote?


same thing for the CNN polls
when you have the majority democrats watching CNN



btw, more people watch FNC than CNN


----------



## Jeepers

Navy1960 said:


> perhaps Jeepers, but in this case given the factors comming into this debate even a tie would be her's . The fact is Joe Biden should have crushed her in this debate which he did not, he did a decent job, but she held he own in the subject areas she knew  , and did not go in depth into the one's she didn't. I didn't see any gotcha moments on one side or the other. however I do think it will be a plus on the McCain side.



I agree .. a tie would have gone her way.. but Sarah not failing miserably is in no way considered a tie.. Biden stayed to a script.. did extremely well and was told to let the facts speak for themselves.. he didnt go for the jugular.. they were winning with the current strategy.. just reinforce the talking points.. Obamas race has never been the race of the rabit.. its been a slow moving numbers game... Its boring yet quite facinating in a molasses running downhill in wintertime kind of way...


----------



## dilloduck

Anguille said:


> jeepers is the Other!!



WHEWWW--I knew better than to vote before all the evidence was in !!!
That would have been SO embarrassing and sure as hell I would get accused of being a queer.


----------



## freethought

"presentation" wise Palin did ok, but that is part of the problem with her.

As many have stated here, she stuck to the talking pts, never veered off of them, and when she did she looked lost. Getting someone's name wrong can happen, so I don't think that's too big a deal.

Biden's 35 min stretch at the start of not looking at the camera was a bit of an issue, but the words coming out of his mouth should have more than off-set that.

But I think what this debate should have illustrated more than anything is that Palin simply isn't fit to serve as VP. I say that because as the Couric interview clearly showed, she isn't well versed or experienced enough to be VP. But more than that is the contract that tonight provided. Again, she was lost when she went off the repeatedly rehearsed talking pts, and she was lost when she did the ABC interview and more recently with Couric. 

When you work in the Oval office you cannot be briefed in full ALL THE TIME. You need knowledge, understanding, experience and intelligence. And if she can't do anything unless it's rehearsed, she shouldn't hold the office.

And despite a good presentation tonight, the VP is more than presentation, and that's why people shouldn't vote for her/the gop.


----------



## jillian

Red Dawn said:


> Uh, now that the vote Biden option is working the Fox poll says Biden 58% Palin 42%



that's what i'm getting too


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> same thing for the CNN polls
> when you have the majority democrats watching CNN
> 
> 
> 
> btw, more people watch FNC than CNN



Because Democrats also watch MSNBC and other channels.

Republicans have their mind control err media channel in Fox News.

Besides, the FNC poll is not even counting Joe Biden's votes for the most part at the moment. I went to the site to see if I could vote for Biden and got an error message.


----------



## Missourian

They both did quite well.  Enjoyed both debates, the one on tv....and the one on here 

Night folks,  type atcha tomorrow.





.


----------



## Ultra

Straight off of the Lew Rockwell Blog:



> The Elephant in the Room
> Posted by Anthony Gregory at 08:23 PM
> 
> They both support the fascist bailout. They both support a trillion-dollar foreign policy and a multi-trillion dollar corporate/entitlement state. They are debating over millions when the state they wish to run spends trillions. Even assuming the greatness of mass democracy, this is a grave injustice. They should be debating big, real issues. Not this trivia.



===========================

Not a dime's worth of difference.


----------



## Navy1960

Jeepers said:


> I agree .. a tie would have gone her way.. but Sarah not failing miserably is in no way considered a tie.. Biden stayed to a script.. did extremely well and was told to let the facts speak for themselves.. he didnt go for the jugular.. they were winning with the current strategy.. just reinforce the talking points.. Obamas race has never been the race of the rabit.. its been a slow moving numbers game... Its boring yet quite facinating in a molasses running downhill in wintertime kind of way...



Do you agree Jeepers that somehow they may have lowered the bar too low for Sarah Palin? If so perhaps it was a mistake to do so in this case because even by her holding her own against him can be seen by many as a tie and still others as a win.


----------



## dilloduck

Missourian said:


> They both did quite well.  Enjoyed both debate, the one on tv....and the one on here
> 
> Night folks,  type atcha tomorrow.



Later MO !


----------



## Richard-H

Palin not having made a fool of herself does not mean that she won the debate!

No matter how much it may have surprised everyone.

Chaulk up another one for the Dems!


----------



## Jeepers

The bar was lowered.. not sure about the too low aspect.. I am sure though that many were happy with her relative survival... technically, in her defense, she really doesnt have much policy from the Mac camp to work with...


----------



## Modbert

But anyway, I must depart as I have some studying to do.

Will be around to discuss this more tomorrow.

Good night all.

Oh and one more thing:

Obama/Biden '08


----------



## Silence

Before I read this entire thread and take in all these opinions here is what I thought.

I thought Sarah Palin did a pretty damn good job.  She stumbled a couple of times but that's not unexpected.  

She certainly did what she needed to do in not looking like an idiot.  She gave pretty clear answers, even if those answers focused on the same issues, energy and obama raising taxes.  

I thought she was engaging and I thought she came across and charming and funny.

I loved her "I guess they didn't get my joke" comment about not knowing what a VP did.  She also got me laughing when she did the "oh no Joe here we go again" when he brought up Bush over and over.  

I'm not sure that what she did will make a difference in the race.  I think McCain has lost this election with his erratic and unsteady behavior.  He's shown that he's unable to stay calm in the face of turmoil.  

I was interested in seeing her attack Obama, she didn't.  Not to the degree that I thought she would.  She also agreed with Biden a few times.  

I thought Joe Biden did a great job.  Hands down the winner.  He stayed on message.  He hit John McCain repeatedly without beating up on Palin.  He was respectful and tough at the same time.  I thought it hit just the right tone of treating her like a worthy opponent but also as someone out of her depth.  

I thought Gwen seemed afraid to engage them too much.  Like all the controversey had taken some of the edge out of her questions.  She never did a tough follow up question and that was disappointing.  

Overall I thought this debate was more entertaining to watch.  mainly because Biden and Palin actually engaged each other and you could tell they were giving thought and weight to what the other was saying.  Neither was dismissive the way McCain was.  

It was good.  very good indeed!


----------



## NOBama

freethought said:


> When you work in the Oval office you cannot be briefed in full ALL THE TIME. You need knowledge, understanding, experience and intelligence. And if she can't do anything unless it's rehearsed, she shouldn't hold the office.



Every time I see Obama speak he's reading a script. So exactly where, or more importantly when, is HE going to get the knowledge, understanding, experience, and intelligence to run the Oval office?

I'm outta here, G'nite all.


----------



## Red Dawn

NObama said:


> Every time I see Obama speak he's reading a script. .




You don't watch much TV, do you?

Unlike Palin, Obama has been on high profile, unscripted interview shows like Meet the Press and Face the Nation about a billion times.   

When's poor Sarah going on Meet the Press?


----------



## Modbert

Red Dawn said:


> You don't watch much TV, do you?
> 
> Unlike Palin, Obama has been on high profile, unscripted interview shows like Meet the Press and Face the Nation about a billion times.
> 
> When's poor Sarah going on Meet the Press?



Couldn't help but respond to this.

Around the time this happens:


----------



## DiveCon

Modbert said:


> Because Democrats also watch MSNBC and other channels.
> 
> Republicans have their mind control err media channel in Fox News.
> 
> Besides, the FNC poll is not even counting Joe Biden's votes for the most part at the moment. I went to the site to see if I could vote for Biden and got an error message.


that was the web site, not the text poll
thats the one being talked about


----------



## DiveCon

Red Dawn said:


> You don't watch much TV, do you?
> 
> Unlike Palin, Obama has been on high profile, unscripted interview shows like Meet the Press and Face the Nation about a billion times.
> 
> When's poor Sarah going on Meet the Press?


you mean when the edit it to make him look good?
yeah


----------



## N4mddissent

> Every time I see Obama speak he's reading a script. So exactly where, or more importantly when, is HE going to get the knowledge, understanding, experience, and intelligence to run the Oval office?



Obama agrees to have his knowledge tested in the snake pit by agreeing to go on O'Reilly.  Palin falls short with Katie Couric.

You really don't want this comparison.  How would Palin stand up going on Olbermann?


----------



## Red Dawn

DiveCon said:


> that was the web site, not the text poll
> thats the one being talked about




Please explain how a *Live* Television interview gets edited.


----------



## Red Dawn

DiveCon said:


> you mean when the edit it to make him look good?
> yeah




Please explain how a* Live* Television interview gets edited.


----------



## dilloduck

Red Dawn said:


> Please explain how a* Live* Television interview gets edited.



Diebold


----------



## DiveCon

Red Dawn said:


> Please explain how a* Live* Television interview gets edited.


what show was live?


----------



## Silence

perhaps people would want to stay on the debate?  

This is what is wrong with this election... we have the attention span of gnats


----------



## freethought

NObama said:


> Every time I see Obama speak he's reading a script. So exactly where, or more importantly when, is HE going to get the knowledge, understanding, experience, and intelligence to run the Oval office?
> 
> I'm outta here, G'nite all.



Others have already responded, and they pretty much have said what I would have said. That you can't compare the two.  Obama is doing interviews every day, Palin once in a blue moon. Obama has demonstrated that he can speak without remarks, whereas any time palin tries she looks totally lost.

As to how this applies to this thread, based on this performance no one should be reassured by Palin, nor does 'not sucking' constitute a win.


----------



## dilloduck

freethought said:


> Others have already responded, and they pretty much have said what I would have said. That you can't compare the two.  Obama is doing interviews every day, Palin once in a blue moon. Obama has demonstrated that he can speak without remarks, whereas any time palin tries she looks totally lost.
> 
> As to how this applies to this thread, based on this performance no one should be reassured by Palin, nor does 'not sucking' constitute a win.



I don't want her to be my mother and I'm tired of performing politicians. Look at all the "qualified" ones we have know---ain't they somethin' ?


----------



## N4mddissent

DiveCon, you don't even know you've been hoodwinked.  The Right Wing some time ago decided they could bullshit all they want as long as they all got on the same page and when exposed by that pesky "freedom of the press" phrase in the first amendment, in unison start yelling "media bias".  And the funny thing is, the more bullshit they spew, the more the press has to expose.  And with the press exposing their continuous never-ending stream of bullshit, it just helps their case among the general public.  "It must be media bias, the press has run 10 times as many stories about right wing bullshit. They're obviously biased"  The idea was brilliant.  Once you get the idea of media bias out there, then the more you bullshit and get exposed, the more it seems like the media is biased.  Then another brilliant idea.  We'll start a news channel that is pretty much bullshit and distortions skewed our way, since our "media bias" meme has already disillusioned the public to the rest of the media.  They'll eat it up if we claim it, as opposed to the other outlets we've smeared, is fair and balanced.   

Just follow McCain's campaign.  He used to be friendly with the press.  Whenever they started get called on bullshit- they go after the media.  They NEVER argue giving evidence that the story is untrue.  Consider the Rick Davis issue.  The NYTimes wrote articles exposing this.  Did McCain ever deny the articles or show evidence that proved the articles were untrue?  No, he just said the NYTimes was not a true journalistic organization.  Palin makes gaffes in her interviews.  There was no excuse for them.  But what do we hear?  Gotcha journalism and Palin's media comment tonight.  The right screamed "Media Bias" like an alarm all throughout the last decade, especially if any news source questioned Bush's claims about ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda, justification for war, WMD's, etc...  How many times did Cheney and Rumsfeld early on say things were going great in Iraq and that the reports of an insurgency was just the liberal media.  Think for yourself.  They want you to only turn to them for the truth.  That's why they want you to think Fox News is always right, and all the other media sources and journalists are biased and wrong.  But like a study a few years ago showed:  In a poll asking questions about current events (at the time).  Facts, not ambigous statements.   Questions were like "Have weapons of mass destruction been found in Iraq since we invaded."  'Have there been any proven Links between Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden?" They also asked about their primary sources of news.  In questions about objective facts in current events, those who cited Fox News as their primary source of news consistently scored the lowest.  They newer fewer facts than those who got news from any other source.  Welcome to the reality-based community.


----------



## DiveCon

N4mddissent said:


> DiveCon, you don't even know you've been hoodwinked. <snipped>.


 thats as far as i got

you dont know me from adam, dont tell me i've been hoodwinked
as far as i can tell you have been hoodwinked just as much(if not more) to support the people you do


McCain wasnt my first choice, but he is a damn sight better than Obama


----------



## eots

DiveCon said:


> you mean when the edit it to make him look good?
> yeah



thats riight..its a _media conspracy_...it was not really live..in fact it was all done.....with liberal generated holograms...what a goof ball...


----------



## dilloduck

eots said:


> thats riight..its a _media conspracy_...it was not really live..in fact it was all done.....with liberal generated holograms...what a goof ball...



right--like the WTC


----------



## N4mddissent

And on the debate, Palin obviously worked very hard to prepare.  She carried herself admirably with attempts to be witty and charming.  I'm sure the reaction to the 'peppy' personality she had will differ among different viewers.  Some might see it as down-to-earth, others might see it as lack the seriousness required of the position.  I think her success or failure in the eyes of the voting public who watched it may rest on how many of them picked up on the fact that she was obviously coached to learn a few talking points very well and if a question is asked outside of those preset parameters then ignore it and go to your talking points.  Of course, this makes the entire "biased moderator" claims that just happen to pop up before the debate (despite the information being out there for weeks, even before they approved Ifil) seem more like a preventative measure.  If you plan on not answering questions outside certain parameters, then you would like some way to either prevent the moderator from aggressively following up, or be able to cry fowl afterwards.  Claiming bias is the preferred right wing method of red-herring politics.

Biden did well.  He had a few moments.  The Bridge to Nowhere comment comes to mind.  He may have come off as bland to some viewers.  I did hear that some viewers thought he seemed angry, but I personally didn't get that.  I am glad he mentioned being a single father at the end.  Palin misses no opportunity to paint her hockey-mom average 1.2million dollar middle class family portrait.  He didn't mention it over and over, nor use it as a tool, but mentioned it when appropriate to emphasize that Sarah Palin isn't the only one who has been through hard times and has working class roots, so that shouldn't be her only qualification.

I think Palin can hold her head high.  I think Joe Biden was terrific.  I thought Joe had more command of facts.  I also thought he stayed on the question more, while Palin avoided those she didn't feel comfortable.  Content I believe Joe won.  Delivery was pretty equal.


----------



## N4mddissent

> thats as far as i got



Don't tell me I'm wrong if you won't even read the post and argue the points.


----------



## Stoner

Palin did very well.  This is a huge blow to the MSM who attempted to paint her as stupid and inexperienced.  Guess those SNL skits won't seem as funny anymore.

Despite the obvious bias from the moderator who resembled a bright, green, Jabba the Hut, you have to give this one to Palin.  She outclassed Biden.  Biden looked old, tired and very boring.  He talked the rhetoric party line nicely but was empty in the ideas department.  The funniest part was when he called himself a father and pretended to withhold tears.  Bad acting.

Overall it was a great debate.  Too bad they don't get another one.


----------



## Chris

Stoner said:


> Palin did very well.  This is a huge blow to the MSM who attempted to paint her as stupid and inexperienced.  Guess those SNL skits won't seem as funny anymore.
> 
> Despite the obvious bias from the moderator who resembled a bright, green, Jabba the Hut, you have to give this one to Palin.  She outclassed Biden.  Biden looked old, tired and very boring.  He talked the rhetoric party line nicely but was empty in the ideas department.  The funniest part was when he called himself a father and pretended to withhold tears.  Bad acting.
> 
> Overall it was a great debate.  Too bad they don't get another one.



He wasn't pretending. He lost his wife and year old daughter in a car wreck. Do you have any idea how that feels?


----------



## DiveCon

eots said:


> thats riight..its a _media conspracy_...it was not really live..in fact it was all done.....with liberal generated holograms...what a goof ball...


well, maybe you can answer what the person i asked so far hasnt
what show was Obama on that was live?


----------



## Stoner

Chris said:


> He wasn't pretending. He lost his wife and year old daughter in a car wreck. Do you have any idea how that feels?



Bad acting.  He wasn't remotely close to crying.  It was a lame attempt to connect to middle-America.  He wanted everyone to see he's human and not some rich, out-of-touch politician.

Didn't work.


----------



## dilloduck

Chris said:


> He wasn't pretending. He lost his wife and year old daughter in a car wreck. Do you have any idea how that feels?



Sorta like Hiilary when she was behind in the polls ?


----------



## eots

no the wtc was not a hologram..but it did fall into its own footprint at free fall speed..with relatively small fires and was completely excluded from the 911 commission report...and it strikes me and other intelligent people as very odd..that such random uneven fire..and structural damage.. could create such a controlled collapse only on one side of wtc 7 was damaged..which is all the more reason the building would fall unevenly...yet it came down in a controlled manner at free fall speed........but that's another story


----------



## DiveCon

Stoner said:


> Bad acting. He wasn't remotely close to crying. It was a lame attempt to connect to middle-America. He wanted everyone to see he's human and not some rich, out-of-touch politician.
> 
> Didn't work.


 


dilloduck said:


> Sorta like Hiilary when she was behind in the polls ?


 meh, losing a wife and child like that, i give him the benefit of any doubt on that one


----------



## del

eots said:


> ...and it strikes me and other *intelligent *people as very odd..


----------



## dilloduck

DiveCon said:


> meh, losing a wife and child like that, i give him the benefit of any doubt on that one



Personally?  of course but this is politics  !!  blood and guts --stay out of the kitchen type stuff !!!


----------



## DiveCon

dilloduck said:


> Personally?  of course but this is politics  !!  blood and guts --stay out of the kitchen type stuff !!!


not when recalling an event like that
cut the man some slack on such a personal event


----------



## Chris

Stoner said:


> Bad acting.  He wasn't remotely close to crying.  It was a lame attempt to connect to middle-America.  He wanted everyone to see he's human and not some rich, out-of-touch politician.
> 
> Didn't work.



Biden rides the train back to Delaware every night.

How many Senators ride public transportation to and from work every day?


----------



## jreeves

Chris said:


> Biden rides the train back to Delaware every night.
> 
> How many Senators ride public transportation to and from work every day?



How many Senators have the worst record in wasting tax money...Biden

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLe3_1a_KUs]YouTube - Biden Has Worst Possible Rating For Wasteful Spending[/ame]


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> meh, losing a wife and child like that, i give him the benefit of any doubt on that one



And he was also talking about his son who is being deployed to Iraq today/tomorrow.


----------



## DiveCon

Modbert said:


> And he was also talking about his son who is being deployed to Iraq today/tomorrow.


that whole thing isnt an issue with me
its about the same as the BS attacks against Palin


----------



## Luissa

I watched the debate with a friend who knows nothing about what is going on and politics and had heard neither really speak before. Her comment was Palin was hard to follow about after three seconds and Biden answered directly.
It was very clear Biden knew what he was talking about Foreign relations especially israel and Palin had no clue. And to suggest the VP isn't really apart of the executive branch, give me a break! Well I guess when you have a journalism degree you don't know much about constitutional law!


----------



## N4mddissent

Biden did not grow up wealthy.  And I cannot imagine, absolutely cannot imagine, what sort of mark it would leave if my daughter was killed.  He lost a wife and daughter and almost his sons.  He was elected to the Senate for the first time in Nov. 1972.  His wife and daughter were killed and his sons severely injured in Dec. 1972, just weeks after he won the election and a few days before Christmas.  He initially decided to resign his newly won seat, but the Senate Majority leader came and asked him to reconsider.  He kept the seat but refused to leave his sons' bedside in the hospital where both were in critical condition.  He was sworn in at their bedside.  He takes the train to Washington, because after his sons recovered and he was a single Dad, he insisted on being there for them and so for 26 years, he rode the train home (4 hours round trip) every single night rather than stay in Washington so he could be there, tuck them in, read stories, etc...  As a divorced dad who is a single dad half the time, I can tell you that dedication of that caliber is not always easy, but nothing compares to the eyes of your child when they have been waiting to see you and you're there.  No, I don't think he's faking at all.  He loves his kids.


----------



## DiveCon

Luissa27 said:


> I watched the debate with a friend who knows nothing about what is going on and politics and had heard neither really speak before. Her comment was Palin was hard to follow about after three seconds and Biden answered directly.
> It was very clear Biden knew what he was talking about Foreign relations especially israel and Palin had no clue. And to suggest the VP isn't really apart of the executive branch, give me a break! Well I guess when you have a journalism degree you don't know much about constitutional law!


the VP is part of both
the VP functions as President of the senate


----------



## N4mddissent

> And to suggest the VP isn't really apart of the executive branch, give me a break! Well I guess when you have a journalism degree you don't know much about constitutional law!



Yeah, Palin did say she agreed with Cheney's interpretation, but to be honest, I don't think she really understood that whole separation of powers, constitutional conflict that's been ongoing throughout the Bush years.  She looked like she was treading water a bit there and took a shot.  The issue is Cheney has enunciated the idea that he is not subject to certain limits and restrictions because the V.P. presides over the Senate which makes him part of the Legislative Branch.  This is obviously ridiculous.  Even he knows its bullshit, because when faced with subpoenas or investigations, he's quick to use "executive privilege".  Palin agreeing with him could be a sign of more Constitutional subversion, but I really just don't think she knew.


----------



## DiveCon

N4mddissent said:


> Yeah, Palin did say she agreed with Cheney's interpretation, but to be honest, I don't think she really understood that whole separation of powers, constitutional conflict that's been ongoing throughout the Bush years. She looked like she was treading water a bit there and took a shot. The issue is Cheney has enunciated the idea that he is not subject to certain limits and restrictions because the V.P. presides over the Senate which makes him part of the Legislative Branch. This is obviously ridiculous. Even he knows its bullshit, because when faced with subpoenas or investigations, he's quick to use "executive privilege". Palin agreeing with him could be a sign of more Constitutional subversion, but I really just don't think she knew.


its not bullshit, its FACT
the VP is part of BOTH

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Vice_President.htm

notice the address?


----------



## N4mddissent

> the VP is part of both
> the VP functions as President of the senate



No, the VP is part of the executive branch.  That's why his duties are listed in Article 1.  The whole separation of powers thing falls apart if the powers aren't separate.  He has 1 duty even associated with the senate and that's to vote to break a tie.  If it's not a tie, he doesn't even get to vote.  It's obvious the founders need some way to resolve issues that are a tie in the senate since with 2 senators from every state, you would always have an even number.  They chose to let the VP do it.  But if they had wanted him to be in the legislative branch, they would not have listed this duty under Article 1 which outlines the executive branch.  Cheney is attacking the nation more successfully than any terrorists when he tries to undermine the principles of the Constitution.


----------



## Chris

McCain should have selected Tina Fey.........she's smarter.


----------



## DiveCon

N4mddissent said:


> No, the VP is part of the executive branch.  That's why his duties are listed in Article 1.  The whole separation of powers thing falls apart if the powers aren't separate.  He has 1 duty even associated with the senate and that's to vote to break a tie.  If it's not a tie, he doesn't even get to vote.  It's obvious the founders need some way to resolve issues that are a tie in the senate since with 2 senators from every state, you would always have an even number.  They chose to let the VP do it.  But if they had wanted him to be in the legislative branch, they would not have listed this duty under Article 1 which outlines the executive branch.  Cheney is attacking the nation more successfully than any terrorists when he tries to undermine the principles of the Constitution.


did you bother to read the link?


----------



## N4mddissent

When I typed my response the link wasn't up yet, but since then I have read it.  It was obvious they created the position before they even gave him the duty to preside over the Senate.  And when they created the position, they placed it in the executive branch.  Otherwise there would not have been complaints even then that it seemed to violate the separation of powers.  Why would it violate it if they intended it to be in the legislative branch.  They finally decided to do allow him that duty because basically the V.P. job would have been pointless and unnecessary without that duty.

But having a duty that involves the legislative branch does not make you part of the legislative branch.  The duty of presidential impeachment falls upon the congress.  That doesn't make congress part of the executive branch.  I think the clearest way to understand is to ask these simple questions.  Can the V.P. introduce legislation as a Senator?  No. Can he even vote on legislation if it's not a tie vote? No. Can he even serve as president of the senate if the head of the executive branch is being impeached? No.  

But if you are absolutely determined to interpret all of this as the V.P. being part of the legislative branch, then you need to prove to me that he is in the executive branch.  It can be argued whether the founding fathers intended it to be part of the executive branch or legislative branch (though I think it's foolish), but it is straining one's integrity to deny that the founding fathers did not intend to have separation of powers.


----------



## N4mddissent

I do want to make one correction.  Earlier I stated Article 1 outlined the executive branch, but it is the Article 2.  Article 1 does list the duty of the the VP in the simple little line: _The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided._

And while his duties are outlined in Article 1, his office is outlined in Article 2 which says:
_The Executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice-President chosen for the same Term, be elected,..._

The office of VP is outlined right alongside the president.  The traditional interpretation of the VP's role as President of the Senate is as part of checks and balances, wherein the executive branch has a check on the legislative branch through its ability to break a tie in the senate.  Just like a president can be removed from office by congress.  But having a duty over another branch does not make you part of that branch.  That's why the VP has no power in the senate at all unless there is a tie according to the constitution.


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> the VP is part of both
> the VP functions as President of the senate



No...he's not. That's Cheney-speak. The VP is part of the EXECUTIVE branch only.


----------



## jillian

N4mddissent said:


> I do want to make one correction.  Earlier I stated Article 1 outlined the executive branch, but it is the Article 2.  Article 1 does list the duty of the the VP in the simple little line: _The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided._
> 
> And while his duties are outlined in Article 1, his office is outlined in Article 2 which says:
> _The Executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice-President chosen for the same Term, be elected,..._
> 
> The office of VP is outlined right alongside the president.  The traditional interpretation of the VP's role as President of the Senate is as part of checks and balances, wherein the executive branch has a check on the legislative branch through its ability to break a tie in the senate.  Just like a president can be removed from office by congress.  But having a duty over another branch does not make you part of that branch.  That's why the VP has no power in the senate at all unless there is a tie according to the constitution.



Well done. I really find it a waste of time to have to explain to people that that was a huge fraud. It's like trying to prove the sky blue...


----------



## NOBama

freethought said:


> Others have already responded, and they pretty much have said what I would have said. That you can't compare the two.  Obama is doing interviews every day, Palin once in a blue moon. Obama has demonstrated that he can speak without remarks, whereas any time palin tries she looks totally lost.
> 
> As to how this applies to this thread, based on this performance no one should be reassured by Palin, nor does 'not sucking' constitute a win.



All three replies, including yours, fall short of answering my question so I'll ask again:

Exactly where, or more importantly when, is HE (Obama) going to get the knowledge, understanding, experience, and intelligence to run the Oval office?

And while Im at it, do you think Obamas handlers didnt prepare him for his live and unscripted interviews on, for example, Meet the Press and Face the Nation? I certainly do.

The bottom line for me is: Were faced with a choice a greenhorn living on  Pennsylvania Ave or a Greenhorn living on the corner 34th St and Massachusetts Ave. If I vote for either of these buffoons who desire the Pennsylvania Ave. address, I'll vote the one that puts the Greenhorn living at the 34th and Massachusetts Ave.

Id rather have a Greenhorn whos one catastrophic decision PLUS one heartbeat away from the Football than a Greenhorn whos only one catastrophic decision away from my families last heartbeat.


----------



## JimH52

DiveCon said:


> the VP is part of both
> the VP functions as President of the senate




That was just another lie that "uncle fester" Cheney started so he could avoid oversight.  He and bush have been the worst duo in the WH in US history.  That is beyond argument.

*Bottom line:  *The way the swing states are lining up, Obama will win easily.  Palin will be back shooting moose, or meese, or mooses in Alaska after November.


----------



## clane1987

"She did well because she held her own." *You gotta love moral victories!*


----------



## WillowTree

clane1987 said:


> "She did well because she held her own." *You gotta love moral victories!*






you gotta ask yerself, how does a newbie on the scene of about 5 weeks hold her own against a Senator of 30 years? That sure makes him look like a dumbass dosen't it?


----------



## Shogun

WillowTree said:


> you gotta ask yerself, how does a newbie on the scene of about 5 weeks hold her own against a Senator of 30 years? That sure makes him look like a dumbass dosen't it?



not at all.  It makes him look patient enough to humor her entire maple syrup commercial while sidestepping the reflexive sexism charge which is the last arrow in Mccain's quiver.  

It illustrates the difference between a strong candidate and the gimmick that is Sarah Palin.


----------



## jschuck12001

clane1987 said:


> "She did well because she held her own." *You gotta love moral victories!*



Yeah, that and a dollar will get you a bag of chips from the convenient store.


----------



## jschuck12001

WillowTree said:


> you gotta ask yerself, how does a newbie on the scene of about 5 weeks hold her own against a Senator of 30 years? That sure makes him look like a dumbass dosen't it?



She goes to debate boot camp for 2 weeks and doesnt answer one question that she was asked.  What good policy points did she make.  Everything that comes out of her mouth is empty words.  She is a great salesman, thats for sure.  She has a great smile and seems like a cool chick but she is a cheerleader, Biden answered the questions with direct answers but Palin seemed to say the same thing over and over.


----------



## del

jschuck12001 said:


> She goes to debate boot camp for 2 weeks and doesnt answer one question that she was asked.  What good policy points did she make.  Everything that comes out of her mouth is empty words.  She is a great salesman, thats for sure.  She has a great smile and seems like a cool chick but she is a cheerleader, Biden answered the questions with direct answers but Palin seemed to say the same thing over and over.



she's probably part Bosniac.
Bosniac, you gotta love it.


----------



## WillowTree

del said:


> she's probably part Bosniac.
> Bosniac, you gotta love it.






yep,, that was a Bideniac comment wasn't it?


----------



## del

WillowTree said:


> yep,, that was a Bideniac comment wasn't it?



it was pretty funny, that and Palin calling him O'Biden. I thought they were both gonna crack up on that one.


----------



## Ravi

del said:


> she's probably part Bosniac.
> Bosniac, you gotta love it.



I believe the correct spelling is Bosniak.


----------



## WillowTree

jschuck12001 said:


> She goes to debate boot camp for 2 weeks and doesnt answer one question that she was asked.  What good policy points did she make.  Everything that comes out of her mouth is empty words.  She is a great salesman, thats for sure.  She has a great smile and seems like a cool chick but she is a cheerleader, Biden answered the questions with direct answers but Palin seemed to say the same thing over and over.



just think she learned in 2 weeks what it took him 30 years to attain. A Senior Senator with 30 years can only hold his own with a 2 week boot camper. He sure looks like a dumbass to me.


----------



## Shogun

Atom: Kung-Fu Election


----------



## WillowTree

del said:


> it was pretty funny, that and Palin calling him O'Biden. I thought they were both gonna crack up on that one.





Oh, I missed that one. the freaking phone kept ringing. How do people know you don't want to talk right now?


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> I believe the correct spelling is Bosniak.



thanks, i wasn't sure.


----------



## manifold

Palin did a fantastic job impressing those already planning to vote for McCain.  Neither candidate did fuck all to win over undecided voters.  Considering the latest polls: Win for Obama.


----------



## Silence

del said:


> it was pretty funny, that and Palin calling him O'Biden. I thought they were both gonna crack up on that one.



 when she said O'Biden I cracked up....

the Bosniac one I didn't catch right away but that's pretty funny too... 

What made this debate different is that Joe Biden had to be on his best behavior.  He couldn't go after her the same way he would've any other candidate who gave her answers.  and Sadly neither could Gwen Iffl after the shitstorn the right dusted up over the book.  That was obviously their plan and it worked.  Palin did good but she also got softballed during the entire interview.  No follow up questions where asked.


----------



## Ravi

What am I missing? What was funny about the Bosniak comment?


----------



## del

Silence said:


> when she said O'Biden I cracked up....
> 
> the Bosniac one I didn't catch right away but that's pretty funny too...
> 
> What made this debate different is that Joe Biden had to be on his best behavior.  He couldn't go after her the same way he would've any other candidate who gave her answers.  and Sadly neither could Gwen Iffl after the shitstorn the right dusted up over the book.  *That was obviously their plan and it worked.*  Palin did good but she also got softballed during the entire interview.  No follow up questions where asked.



i'm always a little amazed that the same people who are routinely called morons (Bush, McCain, Palin)  have these amazingly convoluted plans that always work. if i read it in a novel, i wouldn't believe it.


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> What am I missing? What was funny about the Bosniak comment?



um, i'm pretty sure they call themselves Bosnians, or at least that's what i've always heard them called. just a funny word, no deep political implications.


----------



## WillowTree

del said:


> i'm always a little amazed that the same people who are routinely called morons (Bush, McCain, Palin)  have these amazingly convoluted plans that always work. if i read it in a novel, i wouldn't believe it.






truly amazing innit?


----------



## Ravi

del said:


> um, i'm pretty sure they call themselves Bosnians, or at least that's what i've always heard them called. just a funny word, no deep political implications.


These people must really be confused then:

CNAB :: About us

Bosniaks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Funny, Biden seems to know more about foreign affairs than ANYONE gives him credit for.


----------



## Ravi

WillowTree said:


> truly amazing innit?


I never thought McCain was a moron. Del either, for that matter.


----------



## jillian

del said:


> i'm always a little amazed that the same people who are routinely called morons (Bush, McCain, Palin)  have these amazingly convoluted plans that always work. if i read it in a novel, i wouldn't believe it.



I don't think anyone ever said Karl Rove isn't brilliant. And McCain's not a moron...


----------



## jschuck12001

WillowTree said:


> just think she learned in 2 weeks what it took him 30 years to attain. A Senior Senator with 30 years can only hold his own with a 2 week boot camper. He sure looks like a dumbass to me.



What did she learn besides how to speak without falling on your face, I can do that.  I give proposals weekly, do you want me as vice president?  Please, does she have any idea on policy.  Joe may be old and grumpy, no argument from me on that but he answers questions on policy so you understand where he is coming from.  The only thing Palin said last night that made me think was that she felt the VP should have more responsibility.  Thats great, we finally heard something unscripted that Palin believes in, is there anything else.  I'm not a Palin hater anymore, I think she has a big upside in politics but she needs time to learn.  I think her biggest problem is that Mccain is her running mate.  I have to admit she is very cute.


----------



## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> I never thought McCain was a moron. Del either, for that matter.






you are though


----------



## Elyk88

jschuck12001 said:


> What did she learn besides how to speak without falling on your face, I can do that.  I give proposals weekly, do you want me as vice president?  Please, does she have any idea on policy.  Joe may be old and grumpy, no argument from me on that but he answers questions on policy so you understand where he is coming from.  The only thing Palin said last night that made me think was that she felt the VP should have more responsibility.  Thats great, we finally heard something unscripted that Palin believes in, is there anything else.  I'm not a Palin hater anymore, *I think she has a big upside in politics but she needs time to learn.*  I think her biggest problem is that Mccain is her running mate.  I have to admit she is very cute.



funny. I think the exact same thing about Obama. you know... the _presidential candidate_


----------



## Ravi

WillowTree said:


> you are though


Yep, I certainly am. Too bad I can still run rings around you.


----------



## WillowTree

jschuck12001 said:


> What did she learn besides how to speak without falling on your face, I can do that.  I give proposals weekly, do you want me as vice president?  Please, does she have any idea on policy.  Joe may be old and grumpy, no argument from me on that but he answers questions on policy so you understand where he is coming from.  The only thing Palin said last night that made me think was that she felt the VP should have more responsibility.  Thats great, we finally heard something unscripted that Palin believes in, is there anything else.  I'm not a Palin hater anymore, I think she has a big upside in politics but she needs time to learn.  I think her biggest problem is that Mccain is her running mate.  I have to admit she is very cute.






she was good and you can't stand it. One can tell how successful she is because it is directly proportional to your irrational rage.


----------



## WillowTree

Ravi said:


> Yep, I certainly am. Too bad I can still run rings around you.





in moronishness? you sure as hell can, I concede the race..


----------



## jillian

WillowTree said:


> she was good and you can't stand it. One can tell how successful she is because it is directly proportional to your irrational rage.



Where do you see rage? Projecting again, dahlink?

No one's saying she didn't do better than expected. But putting her in the same league as Biden in terms of knowledge?? Now that's what my grandmother would have called meshugganah...


----------



## jschuck12001

Elyk88 said:


> funny. I think the exact same thing about Obama. you know... the _presidential candidate_



Well maybe the Republicans should have picked Palin as their Presidential candidate.


----------



## WillowTree

jillian said:


> Where do you see rage? Projecting again, dahlink?
> 
> No one's saying she didn't do better than expected. But putting her in the same league as Biden in terms of knowledge?? Now that's what my grandmother would have called meshugganah...






this whole board and all of loonyland has been in a rage since Palin let you know she was alive!!!


----------



## Elyk88

jillian said:


> Where do you see rage? Projecting again, dahlink?
> 
> No one's saying she didn't do better than expected. *But putting her in the same league as Biden in terms of knowledge??* Now that's what my grandmother would have called meshugganah...



your right...she fits more into the same league as Obama when it comes to knowledge.

knowledge does not equal wisdom btw..


----------



## jschuck12001

WillowTree said:


> she was good and you can't stand it. One can tell how successful she is because it is directly proportional to your irrational rage.



There is no rage here, she was well spoken and believe me I can still sleep at night.  I dont see how my post was irrational rage, but ok, if you say so.


----------



## jillian

Elyk88 said:


> your right...she fits more into the same league as Obama when it comes to knowledge.
> 
> knowledge does not equal wisdom btw..



I wouldn't put her in Obama's league either. Try again.


----------



## Elyk88

jillian said:


> I wouldn't put her in Obama's league either. Try again.



your right it was a longshot...my bad..

Id say Palin is about here ----------------------------------------

























and Obama here --------------------------------------


----------



## WillowTree

jschuck12001 said:


> What did she learn besides how to speak without falling on your face, I can do that.  I give proposals weekly, do you want me as vice president?  Please, does she have any idea on policy.  Joe may be old and grumpy, no argument from me on that but he answers questions on policy so you understand where he is coming from.  The only thing Palin said last night that made me think was that she felt the VP should have more responsibility.  Thats great, we finally heard something unscripted that Palin believes in, is there anything else.  I'm not a Palin hater anymore, I think she has a big upside in politics but she needs time to learn.  I think her biggest problem is that Mccain is her running mate.  I have to admit she is very cute.





jschuck12001 said:


> There is no rage here, she was well spoken and believe me I can still sleep at night.  I dont see how my post was irrational rage, but ok, if you say so.






just that you repeat the left wing talking points and give her no talent for being the smart lady she is. My god she is govenor of a state. An oil producing state who has already done what Biden and Obama want to do, pass windfall taxes on the oil companies and then she passes them on to her constituents. She is an expert in the energy department and all you guys can do is call her retarded. That what I mean by irrational rage.


----------



## WillowTree

just to add, it would be smart to use her talents, and let her grow in the areas she needs to. All those other congresscritters don't know everything they need to know either as evidenced by the giant fuck ups we are witnessing.


----------



## jillian

Elyk88 said:


> your right it was a longshot...my bad..
> 
> Id say Palin is about here ----------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and Obama here --------------------------------------


----------



## jillian

WillowTree said:


> this whole board and all of loonyland has been in a rage since Palin let you know she was alive!!!



I don't see that at all. Like I said, you're projecting...


----------



## Modbert

WillowTree said:


> this whole board and all of loonyland has been in a rage since Palin let you know she was alive!!!



Loonyland = The Republicans get their positions on many things from.

And I don't think I've seen anyone in a "rage" since the debate where she showed she wasn't completely useless.


----------



## WillowTree

jillian said:


> I don't see that at all. Like I said, you're projecting...



sorry you don't see it. it's there. I can't help that.


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> These people must really be confused then:
> 
> CNAB :: About us
> 
> Bosniaks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Funny, Biden seems to know more about foreign affairs than ANYONE gives him credit for.



i stand corrected, but it's still a funny word. if Biden was running for POTUS, i'd vote for him, given the other 2 choices. but he's not so i'm gonna write in Phil Lesh.


----------



## jschuck12001

WillowTree said:


> just that you repeat the left wing talking points and give her no talent for being the smart lady she is. My god she is govenor of a state. An oil producing state who has already done what Biden and Obama want to do, pass windfall taxes on the oil companies and then she passes them on to her constituents. She is an expert in the energy department and all you guys can do is call her retarded. That what I mean by irrational rage.



Where in my post do I call her retarded, are you channeling my thoughts or are you just defensive by nature?


----------



## Modbert

del said:


> i stand corrected, but it's still a funny word. if Biden was running for POTUS, i'd vote for him, given the other 2 choices. but he's not so i'm gonna write in Phil Lesh.



Not going to vote for either because of the bailout Del?

Btw, game 2 for Boston tonight. Woot!


----------



## jillian

del said:


> i stand corrected, but it's still a funny word. if Biden was running for POTUS, i'd vote for him, given the other 2 choices. but he's not so i'm gonna write in Phil Lesh.



I always preferred Weir.


----------



## WillowTree

jschuck12001 said:


> Where in my post do I call her retarded, are you channeling my thoughts or are you just defensive by nature?






did I say that, do you deny that it has'nt been said repeatedly by the left wing? don't take things so personally, when I say left wing I mean the whole crowd. do I need to put that as a signature line?


----------



## del

Modbert said:


> Not going to vote for either because of the bailout Del?
> 
> Btw, game 2 for Boston tonight. Woot!



where i live, if you don't vote dem it doesn't matter 99 out of 100 times. i was gonna hold my nose and vote for mccain, but since it truly doesn't make any difference, i'll go with Phil.

and why is the Fri night game early and Wed night late? 
go dice


----------



## Modbert

del said:


> where i live, if you don't vote dem it doesn't matter 99 out of 100 times. i was gonna hold my nose and vote for mccain, but since it truly doesn't make any difference, i'll go with Phil.
> 
> and why is the Fri night game early and Wed night late?
> go dice



I'm not sure, probably the network itself only had a slot on Wed for late while Friday's is open?


----------



## Ravi

del said:


> i stand corrected, but it's still a funny word. if Biden was running for POTUS, i'd vote for him, given the other 2 choices. but he's not so i'm gonna write in Phil Lesh.


 I can't resist actually besting you once in awhile, it so seldom happens.


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> I can't resist actually besting you once in awhile, it so seldom happens.



you're too kind. i really had never heard the term before.
i guess i should get out more.


----------



## Ravi

del said:


> you're too kind. i really had never heard the term before.
> i guess i should get out more.


Wanna hunt wolves?


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> Wanna hunt wolves?



sounds good to me; can we do it on our bikes or do i need to get a plane?

i've got a .30-06 that needs the exercise either way.


----------



## Ravi

I've got a mountain bike, that ought to do it. You ride shotgun.


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> I've got a mountain bike, that ought to do it. You ride _sho*t*gun_.



didn't see the "t" at first. *phew*
sounds good, meet me at the usual place.


----------



## Ravi

Very nice!


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> Very nice!



thanks. i'm off to host my father in law's 90th b-day. 
hope i'm doing as well as he is when i'm 60.
 i'll talk to you later. i'll bring the ammo. 
del


----------



## Ravi

del said:


> thanks. i'm off to host my father in law's 90th b-day.
> hope i'm doing as well as he is when i'm 60.
> i'll talk to you later. i'll bring the ammo.
> del


Have a nice weekend, Del.


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> Have a nice weekend, Del.



same to you my friend.


----------



## Dr Grump

WillowTree said:


> just that you repeat the left wing talking points and give her no talent for being the smart lady she is.



She can talk off the cuff, but she is not smart. Note how when it came to a subject she was obviously not up with she'd go back to a previous question? (see the tax question being asked and how she completely ignored and went back to the energy question on more than one occasion). She had been absolutely schooled to do that, no question about it. That "rabbit caught in the headlights" smile, too.

Look , seriously Willow, do you want somebody who knows nothing about nothing in the WH? Seriously? Do you hate moderates and lefties that much?


----------



## DiveCon

Dr Grump said:


> She can talk off the cuff, but she is not smart. Note how when it came to a subject she was obviously not up with she'd go back to a previous question? (see the tax question being asked and how she completely ignored and went back to the energy question on more than one occasion). She had been absolutely schooled to do that, no question about it. That "rabbit caught in the headlights" smile, too.
> 
> Look , seriously Willow, do you want somebody who knows nothing about nothing in the WH? Seriously? Do you hate moderates and lefties that much?


ya know, you used a double negative there and it made no sense


----------



## WillowTree

Dr Grump said:


> She can talk off the cuff, but she is not smart. Note how when it came to a subject she was obviously not up with she'd go back to a previous question? (see the tax question being asked and how she completely ignored and went back to the energy question on more than one occasion). She had been absolutely schooled to do that, no question about it. That "rabbit caught in the headlights" smile, too.
> 
> Look , seriously Willow, do you want somebody who knows nothing about nothing in the WH? Seriously?* Do you hate moderates and lefties that much?*







lol  well, let me think on it awhile!


----------



## Isolde

Dr Grump said:


> She can talk off the cuff, but she is not smart. Note how when it came to a subject she was obviously not up with she'd go back to a previous question? (see the tax question being asked and how she completely ignored and went back to the energy question on more than one occasion). She had been absolutely schooled to do that, no question about it. That "rabbit caught in the headlights" smile, too.
> 
> Look , seriously Willow, do you want somebody who knows nothing about nothing in the WH? Seriously? Do you hate moderates and lefties that much?



Can you honestly admit the likes of the ruling elite have have done a great job running this country? I hate their effed up ideas.

She is a populist. Enuf said.


----------



## jillian

Isolde said:


> Can you honestly admit the likes of the ruling elite have have done a great job running this country? I hate their effed up ideas.
> 
> She is a populist. Enuf said.



You had a president for 8 years that you could have a beer with... now the smart people have to clean up his mess.


----------



## Isolde

jillian said:


> You had a president for 8 years that you could have a beer with... now the smart people have to clean up his mess.



Jillian don't swallow the koolaid. The responsibility for this fubar is owned almost exclusively by our legislative branch. Some of the smartest people in the world if you ask them.


----------



## I Missthe North

jillian said:


> You had a president for 8 years that you could have a beer with... now the smart people have to clean up his mess.



 that was awesome.  So true.  I have had enough of stupid people in office.  They have done so much good for us and all


----------



## Isolde

I Missthe North said:


> that was awesome.  So true.  I have had enough of stupid people in office.  They have done so much good for us and all



I agree, we need a purge from top to bottom. Better, yet a 4 year paid vacation and I bet the country would run fine without them.

Yes, I am referring to everyone.


----------



## I Missthe North

Isolde said:


> I agree, we need a purge from top to bottom. Better, yet a 4 year paid vacation and I bet the country would run fine without them.
> 
> Yes, I am referring to everyone.



You are probably right.  I personally believe we should just get rid of all of them and start over.  Too bad it won't happen any time soon.  If only...

(no sarcasm intended...seriously)


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> ya know, you used a double negative there and it made no sense



Maybe your problem is he wrote above your second grade reading level?


----------



## DiveCon

jillian said:


> Maybe your problem is he wrote above your second grade reading level?


yeah, like a moron like you would even be able to tell


----------



## jillian

Isolde said:


> Jillian don't swallow the koolaid. The responsibility for this fubar is owned almost exclusively by our legislative branch. Some of the smartest people in the world if you ask them.



For six years bush talked about how he and his repub congress worked out the budget together.

and i wasn't only talking about the economy. he fubar'd everything he touched. I blame the dems for not standing up to him after they got the leadershp ... wusses.


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> yeah, like a moron like you would even be able to tell



funny...I'm not the one who couldn't "understand" what he wrote. i can't help it if your comprehension skills are poor.


----------



## DiveCon

jillian said:


> funny...I'm not the one who couldn't "understand" what he wrote. i can't help it if your comprehension skills are poor.


i understood what he said, that doesnt change the fact it made no sense
maybe if you were actually half as smart as you think you are, you would be able to understand that simple concept


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> i understood what he said, that doesnt change the fact it made no sense
> maybe if you were actually half as smart as you think you are, you would be able to understand that simple concept



10 year olds get cranky when they don't understand things, too. i understand your frustration.


----------



## WillowTree

I Missthe North said:


> You are probably right.  I personally believe we should just get rid of all of them and start over.  Too bad it won't happen any time soon.  If only...
> 
> (no sarcasm intended...seriously)





might happen sooner than you think. about 99% of us are really pissed at them right now over this bailout.


----------



## DiveCon

jillian said:


> 10 year olds get cranky when they don't understand things, too. i understand your frustration.


you dont have the capacity to begin to understand anything about me


----------



## del

Dr Grump said:


> She can talk off the cuff, but she is not smart. Note how when it came to a subject she was obviously not up with she'd go back to a previous question? (see the tax question being asked and how she completely ignored and went back to the energy question on more than one occasion). She had been absolutely schooled to do that, no question about it. That "rabbit caught in the headlights" smile, too.
> 
> Look , seriously Willow, do you want somebody who knows nothing about nothing in the WH? Seriously? Do you hate moderates and lefties that much?



which indicates more intelligence: trying to answer a question on a subject you know nothing about or skillfully evading the question? she's not a stupid person and knowledge can be acquired. it ain't rocket science-look at nancy pelosi.

around here all the rabbits are asleep long before the headlights come on.


----------



## greenpartyaz

Modbert said:


> John McCain does NOT believe America has the greatest working force.
> 
> YouTube - John McCain Trashes American Workers
> 
> Lie #2 on Sarah's part.


This just shows what an out of touch elitist asshole he really is! Oh, by the way, he still doesn't know how many homes he owns!


----------



## Dr Grump

DiveCon said:


> ya know, you used a double negative there and it made no sense



Tell that to Kris Kristofferson when he wrote "Me and Bobby McGee"...That aside, Palin is still as dumb as a post...<shrug>...


----------



## Dr Grump

DiveCon said:


> ya know, you used a double negative there and it made no sense



On a more serious note, tell me how it is a double negative? Bear in mind, I am a journalist/editor who has earned a living at this shit for the past 20 years...(as a little help here, it is possible to know nothing about nothing ...think about it before you answer and make more of a fool of yourself..)...


----------



## Dr Grump

del said:


> which indicates more intelligence: trying to answer a question on a subject you know nothing about or skillfully evading the question? she's not a stupid person and knowledge can be acquired. it ain't rocket science-look at nancy pelosi.
> 
> around here all the rabbits are asleep long before the headlights come on.




what indicates intelligence is knowing a little about subject matter that affects the people in the country you run. Obviously you like to be lead around by stupid people. Being a right winger, you must be used to it, but being a laughing stock to the normal and left wingers in your country (let alone the rest of the world), must get a tad annoying....even for the mentally challenged....


----------



## Red Dawn

Summary of all the scientific, post-Debate polls

Biden won.  Huge.   


-Fox News                 
Biden 61%
Palin 39%

-CNN/Opinion Research 
Biden 51% 
Palin 36%

-CBS                  
Biden 46% 
Palin 21%

-Survey USA            
Biden 51% 
Palin 32%

-MediaCurves (indies)  
Biden 67%
Palin 33%


Who Won VP Debate: A Review of Polls with October 3 pm update | Midwest Voices


----------



## del

Dr Grump said:


> Obviously you like to be lead around by stupid people.


obviously,after all, i'm following you.


----------



## DiveCon

Dr Grump said:


> On a more serious note, tell me how it is a double negative? Bear in mind, I am a journalist/editor who has earned a living at this shit for the past 20 years...(as a little help here, it is possible to know nothing about nothing ...think about it before you answer and make more of a fool of yourself..)...


sorry, but that is not correct
if you know nothing about nothing, then you MUST know something about something
its a double negative and if you are a journalist, it doesn't surprise me


----------



## Dr Grump

del said:


> obviously,after all, i'm following you.



Who is more stupid...the dumb leader or the ones that follow him/her...


----------



## Dr Grump

DiveCon said:


> sorry, but that is not correct
> if you know nothing about nothing, then you MUST know something about something
> its a double negative and if you are a journalist, it doesn't surprise me



Actually, what I should have said in my last post was, how does it not make sense. It is a double negative (of sorts), but you are the one that said it didn't make sense. I agree if you know nothing about nothing, then you must know something about something. makes sense to me...vous?


----------



## DiveCon

Dr Grump said:


> Actually, what I should have said in my last post was, how does it not make sense. It is a double negative (of sorts), but you are the one that said it didn't make sense. I agree if you know nothing about nothing, then you must know something about something. makes sense to me...vous?


just admit that the way you used it, it didnt make sense


----------



## del

Dr Grump said:


> Who is more stupid...the dumb leader or the ones that follow him/her...



you've got my vote....


----------



## Dr Grump

del said:


> you've got my vote....



You mean you're allowed to?


----------



## del

Dr Grump said:


> You mean you're allowed to?



<yawn>
snappy comeback; your journalistic background is certainly paying big dividends.

do you get mistaken for G.B. Shaw very often? 
no false modesty now, c'mon..


----------



## Dr Grump

del said:


> <yawn>
> snappy comeback; your journalistic background is certainly paying big dividends.
> 
> do you get mistaken for G.B. Shaw very often?
> no false modesty now, c'mon..



No, I get mistaken for Bob Guccione....


----------



## del

Dr Grump said:


> No, I get mistaken for Bob Guccione....



so you're old, wrinkled, delusional and bankrupt?

quelle surprise!


----------



## Dr Grump

del said:


> so you're old, wrinkled, delusional and bankrupt?
> 
> quelle surprise!



I object to being called bankrupt!


----------



## del

Dr Grump said:


> I ressent being called bankrupt!



sorry, it's been a long day.


----------



## Dr Grump

del said:


> sorry, it's been a long day.



S'Ok..have another beer!


----------



## jillian

Dr Grump said:


> I object to being called bankrupt!


----------



## del

Dr Grump said:


> S'Ok..have another beer!



don't mind if i do, you ready for another?


----------



## Dr Grump

del said:


> don't mind if i do, you ready for another?



It's lunch time down here and I'm off to play soccer with my boys! Have a good evening Del..


----------



## del

Dr Grump said:


> It's lunch time down here and I'm off to play soccer with my boys! Have a good evening Del..



same to you, Doc. i thought you guys called it football, though...
in any event, enjoy the day


----------



## Dr Grump

del said:


> same to you, Doc. i thought you guys called it football, though...
> in any event, enjoy the day



Problem is, I am from NZ and Rugby Union is called football. I moved to Aussie last year and they call Aussie Rules AND Rugby League (a bastardised version of Rugby Union) football, so we have to call it soccer too. later!


----------



## del

Dr Grump said:


> Problem is, I am from NZ and Rugby Union is called football. I moved to Aussie last year and they call Aussie Rules AND Rugby League (a bastardised version of Rugby Union) football, so we have to call it soccer too. later!



enjoy whatever the hell it is you're doing 
i'll stick to baseball. less confusing.......


----------

