# Fox News Says Sharia Law Is Taking Over Because Of A Muslim Women's Swim Class



## Black_Label

You just can't make this crap up,...

_Fox News anchor Heather Nauert announced on Monday that a YMCA swim class that respected the religious traditions of Muslim girls was proof that Sharia law is now changing everything.

The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.

But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in towns across the Midwest.

Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool, Nauert pointed out on Monday. Sharia law is now changing everything._

Fox News: YMCA swim class for Muslim girls proves Sharia law is ?changing everything? | The Raw Story


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## Katzndogz

It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.   

Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online

On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.

Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.


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## High_Gravity

Katzndogz said:


> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.



If Sharia law takes hold, liberals will be the first ones hung from the lamp posts.


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## Stephanie

well stop the damn presses 

good ole raw story pumping out the worthless crap

yawn yawn yawn yawn


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## Sunni Man

We have had 'women only' swim classes at the YMCA in my city for several years and it has nothing to do with sharia law.

It is open to all females regardless of ethnicity or religion.

And men aren't allowed into the pool area.    ...


----------



## Katzndogz

High_Gravity said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Sharia law takes hold, liberals will be the first ones hung from the lamp posts.
Click to expand...


Liberals will be the first to convert to save their own lives.   They will just have to give up things like free condoms, gay rights and twerking.   Right now, liberals see muslims as allies in the battle to rid the country of Christianity.   They aren't smart enough to think about what comes next.


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## Sunshine

Black_Label said:


> You just can't make this crap up,...
> 
> _Fox News anchor Heather Nauert announced on Monday that a YMCA swim class that respected the religious traditions of Muslim girls was proof that Sharia law is now changing everything.
> 
> The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in towns across the Midwest.
> 
> Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool, Nauert pointed out on Monday. Sharia law is now changing everything._
> 
> Fox News: YMCA swim class for Muslim girls proves Sharia law is ?changing everything? | The Raw Story



Well, how many men do you think would get ejected if a Christian woman felt uncomfortable with them there ogling?


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## OldUSAFSniper

This is so stupid that I won't even comment on it.

If anyone knows where Black_Label lives, they may want to go over and make sure he's taking his meds.  I just read his other "the sky is falling" thread and this one is just as dumb and stupid.

Move along people, nothing to see here except a lib meltdown... happens all the time.


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## Black_Label

Sunni Man said:


> We have had 'women only' swim classes at the YMCA in my city for several years and it has nothing to do with sharia law.
> 
> It is open to all females regardless of ethnicity or religion.
> 
> And men aren't allowed into the pool area.    ...



Women only classes? Blasphemy! The right wingers will claim that means radical islam is taking over and soon we will all be required to wear a burka


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## Katzndogz

Men not permitted in the pool area.   Footbaths in public schools.  Sharia compliant financing laws.   Prayer rooms in airports for the muslim cabbies.

Of course this is creeping sharia.


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## g5000

Remember, friends: The GOP has always been a friend to minorities.  At least from 1860 - 1964.  Everyone you see getting paranoid about Muslims and Sharia Law in this topic is therefore a leftie Democrat.  And that includes Fox News.

The ones who want to kick the darkies out of the swimming pool are *not *Republicans.


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## Sunni Man

Katzndogz said:


> Men not permitted in the pool area.   Footbaths in public schools.  Sharia compliant financing laws.   Prayer rooms in airports for the muslim cabbies.
> 
> Of course this is creeping sharia.


Yea, that all sounds really scary!!   ..


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## Londoner

Katzndogz said:


> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.



The war on Christmas is a myth designed to agitate conservatives with the culture war. This became a strategy of the Reagan revolution, which needed to replace the Left's anti-corporate populism with "values populism". 

The goal is to convince under-educated white people that their country has been stolen by anti-Americans who don't share their traditional values. The Rightwing think tank and media universe cherry picks half truths in order to fight this ideological battle . . . designed to recruit a class of poor people into the anti-tax revolution of the wealthy elite who own government (... the people who have, since 1980, shipped the bulk manufacturing jobs to communist China so they can profit from sweatshop labor).

These people have created an electoral strategy which uses the culture war and the war on terrorism to scare people into the voting booth . . . where they unwittingly pull the lever for corporations who ship their jobs to Taiwan and draw massive subsidies and bailouts from the nanny state. The supposed war on Christmas has gone to school on the Trotskyites who also manipulated the great unwashed masses with fake stories designed to secure their allegiance. 

I love Christmas. It fills the public square with festive music and seems to bring out the best in people. For me it transcends religion and is more like a national holiday that unites all Americans. The attempt by the Right to use Christmas to divide people is not only cynical, it proves that they care more about their culture war than Christmas. The anti-tax revolution never sleeps.


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## Sunshine

Sunni Man said:


> We have had 'women only' swim classes at the YMCA in my city for several years and it has nothing to do with sharia law.
> 
> It is open to all females regardless of ethnicity or religion.
> 
> And men aren't allowed into the pool area.    ...



When are the 'men's only' classes?


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## Freemason9

Jehovah Witness laws are now infecting our country. Guys in white shirts and ties are now allowed to roam throughout neighborhoods on Saturday mornings.


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## Sunni Man

Sunshine said:


> When are the 'men's only' classes?


I assume they have them at the gay bath houses.    ...


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## Edgetho

Sunni Man said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> When are the 'men's only' classes?
> 
> 
> 
> I assume they have them at the gay bath houses.    ...
Click to expand...


BWAH!!!


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## OODA_Loop

Man Love Thursday requires extra pool skimmer time


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## Edgetho

OODA_Loop said:


> Man Love Thursday requires extra pool skimmer time



These ignorant fucks don't know what it means because Jon Stewart and Bill Maher have yet to explain it to them


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## g5000

Sunshine said:


> When are the 'men's only' classes?



Just about every day on the basketball court.


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## g5000

Sunshine said:


> When are the 'men's only' classes?



You ever see Michael Phelps competing against women?

Me, either!

He must be a fricking Mooslim.






*Allahu akbar!*


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## BlindBoo

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Sharia law takes hold, liberals will be the first ones hung from the lamp posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liberals will be the first to convert to save their own lives.   They will just have to give up things like free condoms, gay rights and twerking.   Right now,* liberals see muslims as allies *in the battle to rid the country of Christianity.   They aren't smart enough to think about what comes next.
Click to expand...


An outright falsehood, as has been pointed out many, many times......

Most liberals do not side with intolerant religionist or zealots.


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## ron4342

g5000 said:


> Sunshine said:
> 
> 
> 
> When are the 'men's only' classes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You ever see Michael Phelps competing against women?
> 
> Me, either!
> 
> He must be a fricking Mooslim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Allahu akbar!*
Click to expand...

OMG!!! OMG!!! OMG!!!!!! You are so right. I never thought about it this way. In the Olympics men compete against men and women compete against women. Clearly shaira law has controlled the Olympics and it has done so for generations. <GASP> Even the Catholic Church has come under the control of Muslems. <GASP> <GASP> <GASP>Only men can be priests and only women can be nuns! If that isn't clear proof that the Muslens are taking over everything, I don't know what is. Oh My God!!!!!!!!!!!! We're all doomed!


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## Yurt

wait, you libs claim that saudis own fox news....which is it?  fox news is wrong about sharia law, yet they are owned by saudis.


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## bodecea

BlindBoo said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Sharia law takes hold, liberals will be the first ones hung from the lamp posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liberals will be the first to convert to save their own lives.   They will just have to give up things like free condoms, gay rights and twerking.   Right now,* liberals see muslims as allies *in the battle to rid the country of Christianity.   They aren't smart enough to think about what comes next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An outright falsehood, as has been pointed out many, many times......
> 
> Most liberals do not side with intolerant religionist or zealots.
Click to expand...


Those like Katzndogz have to make up a straw man to argue against.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Black_Label said:


> You just can't make this crap up,...
> 
> _Fox News anchor Heather Nauert announced on Monday that a YMCA swim class that respected the religious traditions of Muslim girls was proof that Sharia law is now changing everything.
> 
> The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in towns across the Midwest.
> 
> Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool, Nauert pointed out on Monday. Sharia law is now changing everything._
> 
> Fox News: YMCA swim class for Muslim girls proves Sharia law is ?changing everything? | The Raw Story



And?....What's your point?


----------



## thereisnospoon

BlindBoo said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Sharia law takes hold, liberals will be the first ones hung from the lamp posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liberals will be the first to convert to save their own lives.   They will just have to give up things like free condoms, gay rights and twerking.   Right now,* liberals see muslims as allies *in the battle to rid the country of Christianity.   They aren't smart enough to think about what comes next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An outright falsehood, as has been pointed out many, many times......
> 
> Most liberals do not side with intolerant religionist or zealots.
Click to expand...


No it hasn't. Liberals invariably side with Muslims on all controversies involving members of that religion. 
You libs march in lockstep with Muslim causes.


----------



## OODA_Loop

Liberals know Muslims will love them if they just unclench their fist and reach out their hand.

Of course the Muslim wipes his ass with his hand so........


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## blackhawk

Has anyone else noticed the worse the Obamacare news gets the more shrill and crazy the far left gets in trying to distract from it?


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## Dot Com

Black_Label said:


> You just can't make this crap up,...
> 
> _Fox News anchor Heather Nauert announced on Monday that a YMCA swim class that respected the religious traditions of Muslim girls was proof that &#8220;Sharia law is now changing everything.&#8221;
> 
> The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls &#8212; ages 5 to 17 &#8212; men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in &#8220;towns across the Midwest.&#8221;
> 
> &#8220;Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool,&#8221; Nauert pointed out on Monday. &#8220;Sharia law is now changing everything.&#8221;_
> 
> Fox News: YMCA swim class for Muslim girls proves Sharia law is ?changing everything? | The Raw Story



their viewers  gobble that stuff up hate/fear, fear/hate  as quickly as Fox can serve it up.


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## GHook93

Black_Label said:


> You just can't make this crap up,...
> 
> _Fox News anchor Heather Nauert announced on Monday that a YMCA swim class that respected the religious traditions of Muslim girls was proof that Sharia law is now changing everything.
> 
> The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in towns across the Midwest.
> 
> Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool, Nauert pointed out on Monday. Sharia law is now changing everything._
> 
> Fox News: YMCA swim class for Muslim girls proves Sharia law is ?changing everything? | The Raw Story



The Devil's Greatest Trick was to make the world believe he didn't exist!

Muslims are using a Sharia Law religious requirement to accommodate themselves!!! They won't allow men to appease Muslims Sharia law tenents. How is this not a creeping Sharia Law story?

Just imagine it elderly white women state they didn't want any young N!!!!RS swimming in their pool at the same time? A hypocrite like you would be scream from the fences!


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## Coyote

It's funny people hate it so much that there is some accommodation for Muslim women to swim.  Who does it hurt?  Many traditional Muslim women never learn to swim, or have enough oppertunity to get healthy excersize.  Their traditions prevent them from doing it in sight of men.  Recently there was a horrible capsize of a boat carrying refugees/immigrants from a Muslim African country - many of them women and children.  Many of them drowned.  The women couldn't swim.

Why is this such a bad thing?  It's not Sharia.  We've always had segments of time for just certain groups to swim - teens, elderly, women.  Any women can participate - not just Muslims.  Why make it so difficult for Muslim women to enjoy swimming?


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## hazlnut

Katzndogz said:


> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.



Every single one of your posts sounds like this:






You are truly too stupid for words.


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## Iceman

This broad is retarded, but the Somalis shouldn't be in this country to begin with.


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## Zona

Oh stfu all of you right wing nuts.  Yer guns aint being taken away and fox morons, there is no sharia law here.

SERIOUSLY, STFU.  You lost.  Deal with it.  We are laughing at you with this crap.


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## Iceman

Zona said:


> Oh stfu all of you right wing nuts.  Yer guns aint being taken away and fox morons, there is no sharia law here.
> 
> SERIOUSLY, STFU.  You lost.  Deal with it.  We are laughing at you with this crap.



Zona, why u mad?


----------



## Againsheila

Black_Label said:


> You just can't make this crap up,...
> 
> _Fox News anchor Heather Nauert announced on Monday that a YMCA swim class that respected the religious traditions of Muslim girls was proof that Sharia law is now changing everything.
> 
> The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in towns across the Midwest.
> 
> Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool, Nauert pointed out on Monday. Sharia law is now changing everything._
> 
> Fox News: YMCA swim class for Muslim girls proves Sharia law is ?changing everything? | The Raw Story



If your 6 year old is in swim classes and you're her dad, are you going to want them to tell you that you can't watch her?????


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## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> It's funny people hate it so much that there is some accommodation for Muslim women to swim.  Who does it hurt?  Many traditional Muslim women never learn to swim, or have enough oppertunity to get healthy excersize.  Their traditions prevent them from doing it in sight of men.  Recently there was a horrible capsize of a boat carrying refugees/immigrants from a Muslim African country - many of them women and children.  Many of them drowned.  The women couldn't swim.
> 
> Why is this such a bad thing?  It's not Sharia.  We've always had segments of time for just certain groups to swim - teens, elderly, women.  Any women can participate - not just Muslims.  Why make it so difficult for Muslim women to enjoy swimming?



Like I said, if it's your 6 year old in swim class and you're her dad, are you gonna want them to tell you that you can't watch?


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## Kosh

Further proof that the far left will believe anything posted on a far left site without question or hesitation.

Not even the loyalist to Rush do this.


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## thereisnospoon

Zona said:


> Oh stfu all of you right wing nuts.  Yer guns aint being taken away and fox morons, there is no sharia law here.
> 
> SERIOUSLY, STFU.  You lost.  Deal with it.  We are laughing at you with this crap.



"you lost"...
HUH?....What are you talking about?
The problem with you libs is you would burn down your own house to protect your ideology and your agenda.
"you lost".....Jesus Christ....


----------



## Zona

Iceman said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh stfu all of you right wing nuts.  Yer guns aint being taken away and fox morons, there is no sharia law here.
> 
> SERIOUSLY, STFU.  You lost.  Deal with it.  We are laughing at you with this crap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona, why u mad?
Click to expand...


I'm not.  We won.....twice.  And am about to win again soon enough.  No, I am fine.  Fear mongering is kind of funny though.  It really is.

HE COMIN TO TAKE YER GUNS!


----------



## Zona

thereisnospoon said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh stfu all of you right wing nuts.  Yer guns aint being taken away and fox morons, there is no sharia law here.
> 
> SERIOUSLY, STFU.  You lost.  Deal with it.  We are laughing at you with this crap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "you lost"...
> HUH?....What are you talking about?
> The problem with you libs is you would burn down your own house to protect your ideology and your agenda.
> "you lost".....Jesus Christ....
Click to expand...


therisnospoon, why u mad?


----------



## Iceman

Zona said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh stfu all of you right wing nuts.  Yer guns aint being taken away and fox morons, there is no sharia law here.
> 
> SERIOUSLY, STFU.  You lost.  Deal with it.  We are laughing at you with this crap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona, why u mad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.  We won.....twice.  And am about to win again soon enough.  No, I am fine.  Fear mongering is kind of funny though.  It really is.
> 
> HE COMIN TO TAKE YER GUNS!
Click to expand...

You seem mad, take a chill pill.


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## Kosh

Once again this thread proves that the far left hates women.


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## thereisnospoon

Iceman said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh stfu all of you right wing nuts.  Yer guns aint being taken away and fox morons, there is no sharia law here.
> 
> SERIOUSLY, STFU.  You lost.  Deal with it.  We are laughing at you with this crap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona, why u mad?
Click to expand...


He's a lib...Libs are miserable people. If they are not miserable, something is wrong.


----------



## Zona

Kosh said:


> Further proof that the far left will believe anything posted on a far left site without question or hesitation.
> 
> Not even the loyalist to Rush do this.



True, its not like they are called parrotheads or anything.


----------



## Iceman

Zona said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh stfu all of you right wing nuts.  Yer guns aint being taken away and fox morons, there is no sharia law here.
> 
> SERIOUSLY, STFU.  You lost.  Deal with it.  We are laughing at you with this crap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona, why u mad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not.  We won.....twice.
Click to expand...


We won? Who is this we you are part of? lol


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## Gracie

Sunni Man said:


> We have had 'women only' swim classes at the YMCA in my city for several years and it has nothing to do with sharia law.
> 
> It is open to all females regardless of ethnicity or religion.
> 
> And men aren't allowed into the pool area.    ...




At age 20 to 45...I would be bummed that men could not swim with me.
At 50 to current, I would be THRILLED to be able to swim with just other women.


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## Zona

Iceman said:


> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Zona, why u mad?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not.  We won.....twice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We won? Who is this we you are part of? lol
Click to expand...


Not the losers who voted republican.  You know, the winners!


----------



## thereisnospoon

Zona said:


> thereisnospoon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh stfu all of you right wing nuts.  Yer guns aint being taken away and fox morons, there is no sharia law here.
> 
> SERIOUSLY, STFU.  You lost.  Deal with it.  We are laughing at you with this crap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "you lost"...
> HUH?....What are you talking about?
> The problem with you libs is you would burn down your own house to protect your ideology and your agenda.
> "you lost".....Jesus Christ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> therisnospoon, why u mad?
Click to expand...


Not mad...Why would an intellectual elite lib like yourself be concerned with me.
Don't worry about it.
I'm not even upset. 
I just wonder aloud sometimes what makes people like you tick.
Such partisan views. Almost to the point of self destruction. 
You remind me of those Monks that will set themselves ablaze to prove a point.
Now, why don't you answer the question. What does "you lost" mean?


----------



## Iceman

Zona said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not.  We won.....twice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We won? Who is this we you are part of? lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the losers who voted republican.  You know, the winners!
Click to expand...


Team Democrat, lol.


----------



## Kosh

Zona said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zona said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not.  We won.....twice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We won? Who is this we you are part of? lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not the losers who voted republican.  You know, the winners!
Click to expand...


You mean the far left and all their big money donors?


----------



## Kosh

Zona said:


> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Further proof that the far left will believe anything posted on a far left site without question or hesitation.
> 
> Not even the loyalist to Rush do this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, its not like they are called parrotheads or anything.
Click to expand...


Yes they are far much worse and they call themselves the Democrats.


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny people hate it so much that there is some accommodation for Muslim women to swim.  Who does it hurt?  Many traditional Muslim women never learn to swim, or have enough oppertunity to get healthy excersize.  Their traditions prevent them from doing it in sight of men.  Recently there was a horrible capsize of a boat carrying refugees/immigrants from a Muslim African country - many of them women and children.  Many of them drowned.  The women couldn't swim.
> 
> Why is this such a bad thing?  It's not Sharia.  We've always had segments of time for just certain groups to swim - teens, elderly, women.  Any women can participate - not just Muslims.  Why make it so difficult for Muslim women to enjoy swimming?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, if it's your 6 year old in swim class and you're her dad, are you gonna want them to tell you that you can't watch?
Click to expand...


This is for women, not children and even then - there are still plenty of open spots for everyone, so what's the big deal?


----------



## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny people hate it so much that there is some accommodation for Muslim women to swim.  Who does it hurt?  Many traditional Muslim women never learn to swim, or have enough oppertunity to get healthy excersize.  Their traditions prevent them from doing it in sight of men.  Recently there was a horrible capsize of a boat carrying refugees/immigrants from a Muslim African country - many of them women and children.  Many of them drowned.  The women couldn't swim.
> 
> Why is this such a bad thing?  It's not Sharia.  We've always had segments of time for just certain groups to swim - teens, elderly, women.  Any women can participate - not just Muslims.  Why make it so difficult for Muslim women to enjoy swimming?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, if it's your 6 year old in swim class and you're her dad, are you gonna want them to tell you that you can't watch?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is for women, not children and even then - there are still plenty of open spots for everyone, so what's the big deal?
Click to expand...


From the link in the OP  "The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls &#8212; *ages 5 to 17* &#8212; men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class. "  I know Somali's who are Christian.  Again, if this is your daughter and you are the father, what are you going to think?  I know my daughter isn't going into that class and she may end up not getting swimming lessons due to that.  Do you really think this is a good idea?  To set a precedent?  You do know the "C" in YMCA stands for Christian, right?

Want to name me ONE Muslim organization that would accommodate Christians?


----------



## Sunni Man

Againsheila said:


> From the link in the OP  "The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  *ages 5 to 17*  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class. "


Classes one hour a week.........definitely creeping sharia.   ...


----------



## High_Gravity

Whats the big deal about seeing women swim? its not like their butt ass naked


----------



## Againsheila

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the link in the OP  "The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls &#8212; *ages 5 to 17* &#8212; men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class. "
> 
> 
> 
> Classes one hour a week.........definitely creeping sharia.   ...
Click to expand...


Again, if it's your 6 year old daughter and you're the father, are you going to be okay with this?

Nice deflection though.  The truth is that yes, it is creeping.  It starts slow with things like this, check out what's happened in Europe if you don't believe it; or better yet, Indonesia.


----------



## KevinWestern

Katzndogz said:


> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.





I remember the days before the Muslim scourge when (as a man) I could peer freely into the women's pool area creepily through clear glass vs tinted glass. And now you're telling me I can only swim 23 out of the 24 hours at this one specific YMCA? I want to be able to swim there 24 hrs, whenever I please.

It's almost like I have no freedom anymore.


----------



## Againsheila

KevinWestern said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember the days before the Muslim scourge when (as a man) I could peer freely into the women's pool area with clear glass instead of tinted glass. And now, I can only swim 23 out of the 24 hours at this one specific YMCA...
> 
> It's almost like I have no freedom anymore.
Click to expand...


And yet I remember the day when a father could put his little girl in swim lessons and stay to watch her progress.


----------



## KevinWestern

Againsheila said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I remember the days before the Muslim scourge when (as a man) I could peer freely into the women's pool area with clear glass instead of tinted glass. And now, I can only swim 23 out of the 24 hours at this one specific YMCA...
> 
> It's almost like I have no freedom anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And yet I remember the day when a father could put his little girl in swim lessons and stay to watch her progress.
Click to expand...


There is absolutely no way you'd be able to take your daughter for a swim at that YMCA? I thought "girls swim" lasts only one hour.

Also, is the YMCA being forced to do this or are they choosing to do this? Are you against private institutions choosing to do certain things? Would you like all private institutions to cater only to you?


----------



## Againsheila

KevinWestern said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> I remember the days before the Muslim scourge when (as a man) I could peer freely into the women's pool area with clear glass instead of tinted glass. And now, I can only swim 23 out of the 24 hours at this one specific YMCA...
> 
> It's almost like I have no freedom anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yet I remember the day when a father could put his little girl in swim lessons and stay to watch her progress.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is absolutely no way you'd be able to take your daughter for a swim at that YMCA? I thought "girls swim" lasts only one hour.
> 
> Also, is the YMCA being forced to do this or are they choosing to do this? Are you against private institutions choosing to do certain things? Would you like all private institutions to cater only to you?
Click to expand...


It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!


----------



## Katzndogz

What are they going to do about the transgendered little boys whose parents think they are girls?


----------



## High_Gravity

Againsheila said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet I remember the day when a father could put his little girl in swim lessons and stay to watch her progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is absolutely no way you'd be able to take your daughter for a swim at that YMCA? I thought "girls swim" lasts only one hour.
> 
> Also, is the YMCA being forced to do this or are they choosing to do this? Are you against private institutions choosing to do certain things? Would you like all private institutions to cater only to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!
Click to expand...


----------



## High_Gravity

Again whats the big deal about guys just seeing them swimming? its not like men are getting access to the womens locker room to see them shower or something.


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> And yet I remember the day when a father could put his little girl in swim lessons and stay to watch her progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is absolutely no way you'd be able to take your daughter for a swim at that YMCA? I thought "girls swim" lasts only one hour.
> 
> Also, is the YMCA being forced to do this or are they choosing to do this? Are you against private institutions choosing to do certain things? Would you like all private institutions to cater only to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  *No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.*  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!
Click to expand...


But that's the point - he ISN'T banned from it - *he can choose to have his daughter swim during a session that is open to men*.  The Y serves a community and it's needs and in this community, there was a need and the Y chose to provide them a service.  No one is forced to do anything - I don't get why it should create such an issue or called "catering to".


----------



## Coyote

I think that a lot of people don't realize that these swim sessions, and similar accommodations at other types of excercise facilities aren't just "catering to Muslims" even though it's presented that way.

Orthodox Jews and Muslim women face the same problem when it comes to gender, attire, and exposure:

Working out religiously: How Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women must find rare female-only classes or face the gym in heavy 'appropriate' attire

Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women must find female-only classes or face gym in heavy attire | Mail Online


> As if working didn't require enough effort, for Muslims and Orthodox Jews, the biggest challenge is finding a place to swim, run or do yoga without the burden of having to cover up in front of men.
> 
> Facilities that offer private classes for women only where observant followers of either religion can exercise without the worry of 'immodesty', are few and far between.
> 
> And since the alternatives are forbidden, *women have in the past been forced to either sweat it out under the hijabs and customary Orthodox clothing, or forego exercise altogether*.
> 
> But he added: 'Not everyone throughout the world believes that being physically fit requires a person to be half-naked.'
> 
> More and more, community centres are beginning to acknowledge the issue and the importance of women's right to exercise by providing single-sex classes while others are finding the solution with workout videos in the basement of their own homes.
> 
> 
> ...Within Orthodox Jewish circles, a variety of community centres are offering male-free classes as well as all-female swimming pools.



The point is, these communities are recognizing that exercise is beneficial for everyone, and working to find positive ways to provide to all it's members and frankly, I think that is a good thing whether it's an Orthodox Jewish woman or a Muslim woman.


----------



## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is absolutely no way you'd be able to take your daughter for a swim at that YMCA? I thought "girls swim" lasts only one hour.
> 
> Also, is the YMCA being forced to do this or are they choosing to do this? Are you against private institutions choosing to do certain things? Would you like all private institutions to cater only to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  *No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.*  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But that's the point - he ISN'T banned from it - *he can choose to have his daughter swim during a session that is open to men*.  The Y serves a community and it's needs and in this community, there was a need and the Y chose to provide them a service.  No one is forced to do anything - I don't get why it should create such an issue or called "catering to".
Click to expand...


That's one more hour that isn't allowed for girls to learn to swim unless they are Muslim or don't have a single dad.  That's not inclusion, that's EXCLUSION and not what our country is suppose to be working toward.


----------



## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> I think that a lot of people don't realize that these swim sessions, and similar accommodations at other types of excercise facilities aren't just "catering to Muslims" even though it's presented that way.
> 
> Orthodox Jews and Muslim women face the same problem when it comes to gender, attire, and exposure:
> 
> Working out religiously: How Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women must find rare female-only classes or face the gym in heavy 'appropriate' attire
> 
> Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women must find female-only classes or face gym in heavy attire | Mail Online
> 
> 
> 
> As if working didn't require enough effort, for Muslims and Orthodox Jews, the biggest challenge is finding a place to swim, run or do yoga without the burden of having to cover up in front of men.
> 
> Facilities that offer private classes for women only where observant followers of either religion can exercise without the worry of 'immodesty', are few and far between.
> 
> And since the alternatives are forbidden, *women have in the past been forced to either sweat it out under the hijabs and customary Orthodox clothing, or forego exercise altogether*.
> 
> But he added: 'Not everyone throughout the world believes that being physically fit requires a person to be half-naked.'
> 
> More and more, community centres are beginning to acknowledge the issue and the importance of women's right to exercise by providing single-sex classes while others are finding the solution with workout videos in the basement of their own homes.
> 
> 
> ...Within Orthodox Jewish circles, a variety of community centres are offering male-free classes as well as all-female swimming pools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is, these communities are recognizing that exercise is beneficial for everyone, and working to find positive ways to provide to all it's members and frankly, I think that is a good thing whether it's an Orthodox Jewish woman or a Muslim woman.
Click to expand...


Why would an orthodox Jewish woman or a Muslim woman be a member of the Young Men's Christian Association????!!!??? Why would they even have an issue if they are denied?


----------



## KevinWestern

Againsheila said:


> It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!




Look, if we're talking a community swim pool run by the Federal Gov't (and paid by tax dollars) I would be able to understand why people would get upset.

But a private company? Are you saying that they shouldn't be able to do what they please with the assets they purchase and operate with money earned by the company?


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is absolutely no way you'd be able to take your daughter for a swim at that YMCA? I thought "girls swim" lasts only one hour.
> 
> Also, is the YMCA being forced to do this or are they choosing to do this? Are you against private institutions choosing to do certain things? Would you like all private institutions to cater only to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


What's there to clap about? Againsheila is apparently upset that a private company is doing what they want to do with the assets they own. 

On top of it all, we're talking one hour from A SINGLE pool out of probably thousands that it owns across the country. Lol, you guys are being absolutely ridiculous.


----------



## KevinWestern

Againsheila said:


> Why would an orthodox Jewish woman or a Muslim woman be a member of the Young Men's Christian Association????!!!??? Why would they even have an issue if they are denied?



Although the YMCA might have began as a Christian organization for young men, throughout the years it has sort of morphed into an all-encompassing sort of place.

As an example, women now freely use the YMCA facilities, despite the fact "Young Men" is clearly pointed out in the original acronym. Surely you're not mad about this too, are you?


----------



## Againsheila

KevinWestern said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, if we're talking a community swim pool run by the Federal Gov't (and paid by tax dollars) I would be able to understand why people would get upset.
> 
> But a private company? Are you saying that they shouldn't be able to do what they please with the assets they purchase and operate with money earned by the company?
Click to expand...


I'm saying they're a Christian organization and they shouldn't be catering to the Muslims, not after what happened in Indonesia, which used to be a Christian country.  

Yeah, not all Muslims are fanatical but the beheadings in Indonesia didn't start right away.  They started with Muslims going to Catholic schools.  They started with allowances for the Muslims which the Muslims then used to take over those schools and the country.  This is the start of our country going that way.  Do you really want that?  I don't think we should act like Putin and destroy all the mosques, but they sure as hell aren't going to help the Christians, why should the Christian organizations make special arrangements just for them?

As a Christian, I won't be giving to the YMCA anymore, not until they stop having "Muslim" swimming classes.  Hell, they don't even have "Christian" swimming classes and you think they should have classes just for the Muslims?


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that a lot of people don't realize that these swim sessions, and similar accommodations at other types of excercise facilities aren't just "catering to Muslims" even though it's presented that way.
> 
> Orthodox Jews and Muslim women face the same problem when it comes to gender, attire, and exposure:
> 
> Working out religiously: How Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women must find rare female-only classes or face the gym in heavy 'appropriate' attire
> 
> Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women must find female-only classes or face gym in heavy attire | Mail Online
> 
> 
> 
> As if working didn't require enough effort, for Muslims and Orthodox Jews, the biggest challenge is finding a place to swim, run or do yoga without the burden of having to cover up in front of men.
> 
> Facilities that offer private classes for women only where observant followers of either religion can exercise without the worry of 'immodesty', are few and far between.
> 
> And since the alternatives are forbidden, *women have in the past been forced to either sweat it out under the hijabs and customary Orthodox clothing, or forego exercise altogether*.
> 
> But he added: 'Not everyone throughout the world believes that being physically fit requires a person to be half-naked.'
> 
> More and more, community centres are beginning to acknowledge the issue and the importance of women's right to exercise by providing single-sex classes while others are finding the solution with workout videos in the basement of their own homes.
> 
> 
> ...Within Orthodox Jewish circles, a variety of community centres are offering male-free classes as well as all-female swimming pools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is, these communities are recognizing that exercise is beneficial for everyone, and working to find positive ways to provide to all it's members and frankly, I think that is a good thing whether it's an Orthodox Jewish woman or a Muslim woman.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why would an orthodox Jewish woman or a Muslim woman be a member of the Young Men's Christian Association????!!!??? Why would they even have an issue if they are denied?
Click to expand...


Because this isn't the 1800's anymore and the YMCA is no longer just for Christian men.


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, if we're talking a community swim pool run by the Federal Gov't (and paid by tax dollars) I would be able to understand why people would get upset.
> 
> But a private company? Are you saying that they shouldn't be able to do what they please with the assets they purchase and operate with money earned by the company?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm saying they're a Christian organization and they shouldn't be catering to the Muslims, not after what happened in Indonesia, which used to be a Christian country.
> 
> Yeah, not all Muslims are fanatical but the beheadings in Indonesia didn't start right away.  They started with Muslims going to Catholic schools.  They started with allowances for the Muslims which the Muslims then used to take over those schools and the country.  This is the start of our country going that way.  Do you really want that?  I don't think we should act like Putin and destroy all the mosques, but they sure as hell aren't going to help the Christians, why should the Christian organizations make special arrangements just for them?
> 
> As a Christian, I won't be giving to the YMCA anymore, not until they stop having "Muslim" swimming classes.  Hell, they don't even have "Christian" swimming classes and you think they should have classes just for the Muslims?
Click to expand...



They are not just for Muslims.  They're for any woman who wishes not to be viewed by men.  They are a good group, it's a shame you make this a reason to forgo giving to them.


----------



## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that a lot of people don't realize that these swim sessions, and similar accommodations at other types of excercise facilities aren't just "catering to Muslims" even though it's presented that way.
> 
> Orthodox Jews and Muslim women face the same problem when it comes to gender, attire, and exposure:
> 
> Working out religiously: How Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women must find rare female-only classes or face the gym in heavy 'appropriate' attire
> 
> Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women must find female-only classes or face gym in heavy attire | Mail Online
> 
> 
> The point is, these communities are recognizing that exercise is beneficial for everyone, and working to find positive ways to provide to all it's members and frankly, I think that is a good thing whether it's an Orthodox Jewish woman or a Muslim woman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an orthodox Jewish woman or a Muslim woman be a member of the Young Men's Christian Association????!!!??? Why would they even have an issue if they are denied?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because this isn't the 1800's anymore and the YMCA is no longer just for Christian men.
Click to expand...


But it is still a Christian organization and has no business providing a swimming class only for Muslims.  Do you think any Muslim organization would provide swimming classes only for Christians?  Or Jews?


----------



## KevinWestern

Againsheila said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, if we're talking a community swim pool run by the Federal Gov't (and paid by tax dollars) I would be able to understand why people would get upset.
> 
> But a private company? Are you saying that they shouldn't be able to do what they please with the assets they purchase and operate with money earned by the company?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm saying they're a Christian organization and they shouldn't be catering to the Muslims, not after what happened in Indonesia, which used to be a Christian country.
> 
> Yeah, not all Muslims are fanatical but the beheadings in Indonesia didn't start right away.  They started with Muslims going to Catholic schools.  They started with allowances for the Muslims which the Muslims then used to take over those schools and the country.  This is the start of our country going that way.  Do you really want that?  I don't think we should act like Putin and destroy all the mosques, but they sure as hell aren't going to help the Christians, why should the Christian organizations make special arrangements just for them?
> 
> As a Christian, I won't be giving to the YMCA anymore, not until they stop having "Muslim" swimming classes.  Hell, they don't even have "Christian" swimming classes and you think they should have classes just for the Muslims?
Click to expand...


Are you against the YMCA catering to women in the same way you're against the YMCA catering to non-Christians? Or perhaps when an older fellow hangs out at the YMCA, are you also upset about that too (given the organization is clearly called the Young Men's Christian Association)? 

I just feel like you're being inconsistent with your belief. 

.


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  *No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.*  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But that's the point - he ISN'T banned from it - *he can choose to have his daughter swim during a session that is open to men*.  The Y serves a community and it's needs and in this community, there was a need and the Y chose to provide them a service.  No one is forced to do anything - I don't get why it should create such an issue or called "catering to".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's one more hour that isn't allowed for girls to learn to swim unless they are Muslim or don't have a single dad.  That's not inclusion, that's EXCLUSION and not what our country is suppose to be working toward.
Click to expand...

*
They don't have to be Muslim. * Any girl can.

If they have a single Dad and they absolutely must have that one hour in addition to all the others they have, then their father's can lobby for a daughter/dad swim hour.

There are hours devoted to kids only, special age groups, etc - should they be suspended as well?


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would an orthodox Jewish woman or a Muslim woman be a member of the Young Men's Christian Association????!!!??? Why would they even have an issue if they are denied?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because this isn't the 1800's anymore and the YMCA is no longer just for Christian men.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But it is still a Christian organization and has no business providing a swimming class only for Muslims.  Do you think any Muslim organization would provide swimming classes only for Christians?  Or Jews?
Click to expand...


It depends on the organization - private and church organizations can do what ever they want.  As has been pointed out, the Y is no longer just a "Christian" or "Men's" organization.  Do you have a problem with women being there at all?  Or children?


----------



## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But that's the point - he ISN'T banned from it - *he can choose to have his daughter swim during a session that is open to men*.  The Y serves a community and it's needs and in this community, there was a need and the Y chose to provide them a service.  No one is forced to do anything - I don't get why it should create such an issue or called "catering to".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's one more hour that isn't allowed for girls to learn to swim unless they are Muslim or don't have a single dad.  That's not inclusion, that's EXCLUSION and not what our country is suppose to be working toward.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> They don't have to be Muslim. * Any girl can.
> 
> If they have a single Dad and they absolutely must have that one hour in addition to all the others they have, then their father's can lobby for a daughter/dad swim hour.
> 
> There are hours devoted to kids only, special age groups, etc - should they be suspended as well?
Click to expand...


Nope, just those devoted to a specific religion.


----------



## Againsheila

KevinWestern said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, if we're talking a community swim pool run by the Federal Gov't (and paid by tax dollars) I would be able to understand why people would get upset.
> 
> But a private company? Are you saying that they shouldn't be able to do what they please with the assets they purchase and operate with money earned by the company?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying they're a Christian organization and they shouldn't be catering to the Muslims, not after what happened in Indonesia, which used to be a Christian country.
> 
> Yeah, not all Muslims are fanatical but the beheadings in Indonesia didn't start right away.  They started with Muslims going to Catholic schools.  They started with allowances for the Muslims which the Muslims then used to take over those schools and the country.  This is the start of our country going that way.  Do you really want that?  I don't think we should act like Putin and destroy all the mosques, but they sure as hell aren't going to help the Christians, why should the Christian organizations make special arrangements just for them?
> 
> As a Christian, I won't be giving to the YMCA anymore, not until they stop having "Muslim" swimming classes.  Hell, they don't even have "Christian" swimming classes and you think they should have classes just for the Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you against the YMCA catering to women in the same way you're against the YMCA catering to non-Christians? Or perhaps when an older fellow hangs out at the YMCA, are you also upset about that too (given the organization is clearly called the Young Men's Christian Association)?
> 
> I just feel like you're being inconsistent with your belief.
> 
> .
Click to expand...


Let's just say I believe in a reciprocal arrangement and there will never be one with the Muslims.


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look, if we're talking a community swim pool run by the Federal Gov't (and paid by tax dollars) I would be able to understand why people would get upset.
> 
> But a private company? Are you saying that they shouldn't be able to do what they please with the assets they purchase and operate with money earned by the company?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying they're a Christian organization and they shouldn't be catering to the Muslims, not after what happened in Indonesia, which used to be a Christian country.
> 
> Yeah, not all Muslims are fanatical but the beheadings in Indonesia didn't start right away.  They started with Muslims going to Catholic schools.  They started with allowances for the Muslims which the Muslims then used to take over those schools and the country.  This is the start of our country going that way.  Do you really want that?  I don't think we should act like Putin and destroy all the mosques, but they sure as hell aren't going to help the Christians, why should the Christian organizations make special arrangements just for them?
> 
> As a Christian, I won't be giving to the YMCA anymore, not until they stop having "Muslim" swimming classes.  Hell, they don't even have "Christian" swimming classes and you think they should have classes just for the Muslims?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are not just for Muslims.  They're for any woman who wishes not to be viewed by men.  They are a good group, it's a shame you make this a reason to forgo giving to them.
Click to expand...


If they don't want to be "viewed" by men why even go to the Y in the first place?


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a Christian organization and I'm against Christian organizations that cater to Muslims, especially when children are involved.  No father should be banned from watching his daughter learn to swim.  And if you have children or have ever had children, you know that not being allowed in makes the possibility of problems much worse.  The teacher could be a child molester, the other little girls could beat up on one little girl with the teacher cheering them on.  It's open for all kinds of abuse when you can't watch them.  I have always reserved the right to visit my children's classes without previous warning.  Yeah, they hate that.  Why do they hate it?  Because then they have to be responsible ALL the time.  In today's society there are a lot of single dads.  They have the right to be there for their little girls!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What's there to clap about? Againsheila is apparently upset that a private company is doing what they want to do with the assets they own.
> 
> On top of it all, we're talking one hour from A SINGLE pool out of probably thousands that it owns across the country. Lol, you guys are being absolutely ridiculous.
Click to expand...


I'm clapping because Sheila nailed it, she is right if the roles were reversed and Christians asked for special occomodations they would tell us to go fuck ourselves. Try going to a Muslim country and asking for special occomodations and see what happens.


----------



## Againsheila

Indiana Democratic Rep. Andre Carson claimed in late May that America&#8217;s schools should be modeled after Islamic madrassas in video that recently surfaced.

&#8220;America will never tap into educational innovation and ingenuity without looking at the model that we have in our madrassas, in our schools, where innovation is encouraged, where the foundation is the Quran,&#8221; Carson said in the speech. &#8220;And that model that we are pushing in some of our schools meets the multiple needs of students.&#8221;


----------



## High_Gravity

Againsheila said:


> Indiana Democratic Rep. Andre Carson claimed in late May that America&#8217;s schools should be modeled after Islamic madrassas in video that recently surfaced.
> 
> &#8220;America will never tap into educational innovation and ingenuity without looking at the model that we have in our madrassas, in our schools, where innovation is encouraged, where the foundation is the Quran,&#8221; Carson said in the speech. &#8220;And that model that we are pushing in some of our schools meets the multiple needs of students.&#8221;



What the hell is that guy smoking? all they do in Madrassas is recite Quranic verses all day, no thanks.


----------



## High_Gravity

Muslim countries are the bottom of the barrell when it comes to technology, science and development, we should emulate them why?


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's one more hour that isn't allowed for girls to learn to swim unless they are Muslim or don't have a single dad.  That's not inclusion, that's EXCLUSION and not what our country is suppose to be working toward.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> They don't have to be Muslim. * Any girl can.
> 
> If they have a single Dad and they absolutely must have that one hour in addition to all the others they have, then their father's can lobby for a daughter/dad swim hour.
> 
> There are hours devoted to kids only, special age groups, etc - should they be suspended as well?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope, just those devoted to a specific religion.
Click to expand...


Why?

First - assuming it's devoted only to Muslims (which it isn't by the way - ANY females can participate regardless of religion) - then why is it ok to devote hours to just one sex or one age group?

Why can't private groups do what they want?


----------



## Againsheila

Indonesia Frees Muslim Terrorist Who Beheaded 3 Christian Girls as ?Ramadan Present? | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> *
> They don't have to be Muslim. * Any girl can.
> 
> If they have a single Dad and they absolutely must have that one hour in addition to all the others they have, then their father's can lobby for a daughter/dad swim hour.
> 
> There are hours devoted to kids only, special age groups, etc - should they be suspended as well?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, just those devoted to a specific religion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> First - assuming it's devoted only to Muslims (which it isn't by the way - ANY females can participate regardless of religion) - then why is it ok to devote hours to just one sex or one age group?
> 
> Why can't private groups do what they want?
Click to expand...


You're really stretching it, aren't you?  Did you read the original article?  Of course you didn't you thought this was a class for women instead of girls.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's there to clap about? Againsheila is apparently upset that a private company is doing what they want to do with the assets they own.
> 
> On top of it all, we're talking one hour from A SINGLE pool out of probably thousands that it owns across the country. Lol, you guys are being absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm clapping because Sheila nailed it, she is right if the roles were reversed and Christians asked for special occomodations they would tell us to go fuck ourselves. Try going to a Muslim country and asking for special occomodations and see what happens.
Click to expand...


We are talking about the US.  Why should we emulate the discrimminatory practices of other countries?

So basically you are telling Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women in a community to go f themselves if they want to be able to exercise in a private establishment without abandoning their standards of modesty?


----------



## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's there to clap about? Againsheila is apparently upset that a private company is doing what they want to do with the assets they own.
> 
> On top of it all, we're talking one hour from A SINGLE pool out of probably thousands that it owns across the country. Lol, you guys are being absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm clapping because Sheila nailed it, she is right if the roles were reversed and Christians asked for special occomodations they would tell us to go fuck ourselves. Try going to a Muslim country and asking for special occomodations and see what happens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are talking about the US.  Why should we emulate the discrimminatory practices of other countries?
> 
> So basically you are telling Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women in a community to go f themselves if they want to be able to exercise in a private establishment without abandoning their standards of modesty?
Click to expand...


If this were simply about "modesty" they wouldn't be having a class targeted specifically for Somali-Muslim women.


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, just those devoted to a specific religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> First - assuming it's devoted only to Muslims (which it isn't by the way - ANY females can participate regardless of religion) - then why is it ok to devote hours to just one sex or one age group?
> 
> Why can't private groups do what they want?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're really stretching it, aren't you?  Did you read the original article?  Of course you didn't you thought this was a class for women instead of girls.
Click to expand...


Actually the topic has long since expanded into more than just children and, you avoided the question.


----------



## KevinWestern

Againsheila said:


> Let's just say I believe in a reciprocal arrangement and there will never be one with the Muslims.



That's fine, you don't have to like Muslims. In fact, you can hate them all (thats your right as an American). 

But I think its illogical to badmouth the YMCA for letting in Muslims while completely ignoring the fact theyre also letting in women and old people as well.


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's there to clap about? Againsheila is apparently upset that a private company is doing what they want to do with the assets they own.
> 
> On top of it all, we're talking one hour from A SINGLE pool out of probably thousands that it owns across the country. Lol, you guys are being absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm clapping because Sheila nailed it, she is right if the roles were reversed and Christians asked for special occomodations they would tell us to go fuck ourselves. Try going to a Muslim country and asking for special occomodations and see what happens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are talking about the US.  Why should we emulate the discrimminatory practices of other countries?
> 
> So basically you are telling Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women in a community to go f themselves if they want to be able to exercise in a private establishment without abandoning their standards of modesty?
Click to expand...


They can dress however they please but no men around automatically equals modesty in what world? This is specifically a time for Muslims to be alone with other Muslims, isn't that discriminatory?


----------



## High_Gravity

What if the white women wanted an hour to themselves with no blacks in the pool, is that ok now too?


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm clapping because Sheila nailed it, she is right if the roles were reversed and Christians asked for special occomodations they would tell us to go fuck ourselves. Try going to a Muslim country and asking for special occomodations and see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are talking about the US.  Why should we emulate the discrimminatory practices of other countries?
> 
> So basically you are telling Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women in a community to go f themselves if they want to be able to exercise in a private establishment without abandoning their standards of modesty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If this were simply about "modesty" they wouldn't be having a class targeted specifically for Somali-Muslim women.
Click to expand...


If it's what I'm thinking of, it's targeted to a group which is a large demographic in that community, has a high percentage of health problems that could helped by increased exercise, and as an ethnic group, they are very conservative in dress and will not otherwise be able to exercise very well.  Offering these classes is one way to increase wellness in that group and it's a means of being compassionate to women who also happen to be US citizens like you and I.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> What if the white women wanted an hour to themselves with no blacks in the pool, is that ok now too?



Nope.  Again - it's not just one category of women swimming in this hour, it's any women.

But then again - we have women only, men only, seniors only and age divisions.  So....is that ok?


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> I'm clapping because Sheila nailed it, she is right if the roles were reversed and Christians asked for special occomodations they would tell us to go fuck ourselves. Try going to a Muslim country and asking for special occomodations and see what happens.



Lets say the YMCA owns 2,000 pools nationwide (2,600 locations total) that each are open 12/hrs a day. That amounts to roughly 144,000 hours a week of swim time. 

Youre upset that YMCA is setting aside 1 hour out of a hundred thousand+ a week? That's evidence of a "creeping" Muslim takeover? 

Give me a f'cking break, man.


----------



## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's there to clap about? Againsheila is apparently upset that a private company is doing what they want to do with the assets they own.
> 
> On top of it all, we're talking one hour from A SINGLE pool out of probably thousands that it owns across the country. Lol, you guys are being absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm clapping because Sheila nailed it, she is right if the roles were reversed and Christians asked for special occomodations they would tell us to go fuck ourselves. Try going to a Muslim country and asking for special occomodations and see what happens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We are talking about the US.  Why should we emulate the discrimminatory practices of other countries?
> 
> So basically you are telling Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women in a community to go f themselves if they want to be able to exercise in a private establishment without abandoning their standards of modesty?
Click to expand...


This isn't a class for women who are modest.  This is a class for little girls who are Somali/Muslim.  Did you read the article in the OP?


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> What if the white women wanted an hour to themselves with no blacks in the pool, is that ok now too?



Look, the YMCA can do whatever the hell it wants. I'm sure doing something like that would not be good for their image, and ultimately not a good decision for their business. 

Perhaps there it is advantageous for the YMCA to set aside this hour for Muslim kids because without it they wouldn't have all those kids paying for a class. Again, who are you? Why is it up to you or Sheila to decide what the private business - YMCA - decides to do with their pools? 

Do you own them? Do you operate them?


----------



## Againsheila

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm clapping because Sheila nailed it, she is right if the roles were reversed and Christians asked for special occomodations they would tell us to go fuck ourselves. Try going to a Muslim country and asking for special occomodations and see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Youre arguing that businesses in the United States should discriminate against religious groups just as businesses in Muslim countries do? I dont think thats very good logic.
> 
> At the end of the day  as I mentioned -  you, Sheila, and others appear to be upset that a private company is doing what it wants to do with the assets it owns.
> 
> The YMCA purchased the pool, they run it, and they staff it. If they want to set aside 5 hours a day for swimming for rich people only who earn more than $500k/year, they have that right. They can do whatever they want to do.
> 
> Youre getting upset over nothing. This is one hour a week, lol. Heres the math.
> 
> Lets say the YMCA owns 2,000 pools nationwide (2,600 locations total) that each are open 12/hrs a day. That amounts to roughly 144,000 hours a week of swim time.
> 
> Youre upset that YMCA is setting aside 0.00068% of its total weekly pool hours to cater to a Muslim group? Really?!
Click to expand...


Well, at least you are now admitting that this is about catering to a Muslim group.


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm clapping because Sheila nailed it, she is right if the roles were reversed and Christians asked for special occomodations they would tell us to go fuck ourselves. Try going to a Muslim country and asking for special occomodations and see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We are talking about the US.  Why should we emulate the discrimminatory practices of other countries?
> 
> So basically you are telling Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women in a community to go f themselves if they want to be able to exercise in a private establishment without abandoning their standards of modesty?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This isn't a class for women who are modest.  This is a class for little girls who are Somali/Muslim.  Did you read the article in the OP?
Click to expand...


Yes, I did - but this thread has brought out the general issue of "Muslim only" swimming and the discussion has expanded beyond the OP.  

And it IS about modesty - it's about their cultural standards of modesty.  And it's about a PRIVATE organization deciding to do something to help these girls gain confidence and learn how to swim.  They would not otherwise do so, and swimming, in addition to being beneficial - is a life saving skill.  What's the big deal with allowing this?  It's not public money.


----------



## skye

*  Fox News Says Sharia Law Is Taking Over Because Of A Muslim Women's Swim Class  *


Without a doubt the West obsession with favoring the Muslims as a respected disadvantaged  minority who therefore must be given preferential treatment  is causing immense problems.
The lack of understanding and naivete regarding the true purpose of these mostly unwelcome immigrants is truly astounding!
Once these type of concessions are granted at the expense of the mayority of non-Muslims, then there is no stopping the flow which is exactly what the Muslims want.
They are striving initially for Sharia self-ruling. dominated enclaves (and they have largely succeeded at this in several countries already) ....the next ambitious step, of course, even if it takes centuries, is for fundamental Islam to take over more and more of the world.

Fox news is 100% correct in recognizing the danger and stupidity involved in this sort of action!


----------



## Againsheila

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if the white women wanted an hour to themselves with no blacks in the pool, is that ok now too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the YMCA can do whatever the hell it wants. I'm sure doing something like that would not be good for their image, and ultimately not a good decision for their business.
> 
> Perhaps there it is advantageous for the YMCA to set aside this hour for Muslim kids because without it they wouldn't have all those kids paying for a class. Again, who are you? Why is it up to you or Sheila to decide what the private business - YMCA - decides to do with their pools?
> 
> Do you own them? Do you operate them?
Click to expand...


The YMCA is subsidized by donations.  The kids are not paying for the entire cost of that class.  To take donations given to a Christian organization and earmark them specifically for Muslims is wrong.  Find me ONE Muslim organization that does the same for Christians, just one.  I'll wait.


----------



## Black_Label

skye said:


> *  Fox News Says Sharia Law Is Taking Over Because Of A Muslim Women's Swim Class  *
> 
> 
> Without a doubt the West obsession with favoring the Muslims as a respected disadvantaged  minority who therefore must be given preferential treatment  is causing immense problems.
> The lack of understanding and naivete regarding the true purpose of these mostly unwelcome immigrants is truly astounding!
> Once these type of concessions are granted at the expense of the mayority of non-Muslims, then there is no stopping the flow which is exactly what the Muslims want.
> They are striving initially for Sharia self-ruling. dominated enclaves (and they have largely succeeded at this in several countries already) ....the next ambitious step, of course, even if it takes centuries, is for fundamental Islam to take over more and more of the world.
> 
> Fox news is 100% correct in recognizing the danger and stupidity involved in this sort of action!



You can't be this stupid, can you?


----------



## Againsheila

skye said:


> *  Fox News Says Sharia Law Is Taking Over Because Of A Muslim Women's Swim Class  *
> 
> 
> Without a doubt the West obsession with favoring the Muslims as a respected disadvantaged  minority who therefore must be given preferential treatment  is causing immense problems.
> The lack of understanding and naivete regarding the true purpose of these mostly unwelcome immigrants is truly astounding!
> Once these type of concessions are granted at the expense of the mayority of non-Muslims, then there is no stopping the flow which is exactly what the Muslims want.
> They are striving initially for Sharia self-ruling. dominated enclaves (and they have largely succeeded at this in several countries already) ....the next ambitious step, of course, even if it takes centuries, is for fundamental Islam to take over more and more of the world.
> 
> Fox news is 100% correct in recognizing the danger and stupidity involved in this sort of action!



Yep, just look at Europe, or a bigger example, Indonesia where there were more beheadings of Christians recently.


----------



## KevinWestern

Againsheila said:


> Well, at least you are now admitting that this is about catering to a Muslim group.



It's obvious that they're catering to a Muslim group. 

But they're catering in a very, very, very small way. One hour at one facility a week (YMCA owns 2,600 facilities nationwide). That's miniscule, and if you want to talk percentages it's going to be (statistically speaking) 0%. 

Who are you to say that the YMCA shouldn't make more revenue by offering a class for Muslim kids? Perhaps this was advantageous from a business perspective? Perhaps this is advantageous for this YMCA to bolster credibility within its local community? 

I feel like you're stepping somewhere you shouldn't be stepping, which is (as an outsider) demanding that a private business operate exactly how you want to. Not so. You do not own YMCA and they can do whatever they want, lol.


----------



## Coyote

skye said:


> *  Fox News Says Sharia Law Is Taking Over Because Of A Muslim Women's Swim Class  *
> 
> 
> Without a doubt the West obsession with favoring the Muslims as a respected disadvantaged  minority who therefore must be given preferential treatment  is causing immense problems.
> The lack of understanding and naivete regarding the true purpose of these mostly unwelcome immigrants is truly astounding!
> Once these type of concessions are granted at the expense of the mayority of non-Muslims, then there is no stopping the flow which is exactly what the Muslims want.
> They are striving initially for Sharia self-ruling. dominated enclaves (and they have largely succeeded at this in several countries already) ....the next ambitious step, of course, even if it takes centuries, is for fundamental Islam to take over more and more of the world.
> 
> Fox news is 100% correct in recognizing the danger and stupidity involved in this sort of action!



A private group (the Y) pairing with the local police department, to offer *an hour* swimming class to Somali immigrants (who are refugees from a war torn country) to learn how to swim (a life saving skill) - is an obsession causing IMMENSE problems?  

I don't think so.


----------



## Coyote

Againsheila said:


> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> *  Fox News Says Sharia Law Is Taking Over Because Of A Muslim Women's Swim Class  *
> 
> 
> Without a doubt the West obsession with favoring the Muslims as a respected disadvantaged  minority who therefore must be given preferential treatment  is causing immense problems.
> The lack of understanding and naivete regarding the true purpose of these mostly unwelcome immigrants is truly astounding!
> Once these type of concessions are granted at the expense of the mayority of non-Muslims, then there is no stopping the flow which is exactly what the Muslims want.
> They are striving initially for Sharia self-ruling. dominated enclaves (and they have largely succeeded at this in several countries already) ....the next ambitious step, of course, even if it takes centuries, is for fundamental Islam to take over more and more of the world.
> 
> Fox news is 100% correct in recognizing the danger and stupidity involved in this sort of action!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, just look at Europe, or a bigger example, Indonesia where there were more beheadings of Christians recently.
Click to expand...


Which has nothing to do with this.


----------



## Againsheila

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if the white women wanted an hour to themselves with no blacks in the pool, is that ok now too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the YMCA can do whatever the hell it wants. I'm sure doing something like that would not be good for their image, and ultimately not a good decision for their business.
> 
> Perhaps there it is advantageous for the YMCA to set aside this hour for Muslim kids because without it they wouldn't have all those kids paying for a class. Again, who are you? Why is it up to you or Sheila to decide what the private business - YMCA - decides to do with their pools?
> 
> Do you own them? Do you operate them?
Click to expand...


I have a friend who until recently was a single Dad.  He had his daughter in swim lessons at the Y and he went with her twice a week.  Now you have no problem telling this man he's not welcome.  That is discrimination and that is not what the Y is suppose to be about.  BTW, he's been a member of the Y for years.  Last year he stopped.  Gee, I wonder why?


----------



## kiwiman127

Minnesota is pretty big on being PC. In this case it's our way of displaying freedom of choice and in this case respecting a specific religion.  Having this type of attitude probably explain why Minnesota is always ranked in the Top 5 for being the happiest state.
On the serious side, this uproar by my right leaning friends is actually kind of funny.  This thread belongs in the Rubber Room as it's getting more absurd with every page!
And by the way,,,my health club has water aerobics for women only. I know, I tried to join the class,,at least four times!


----------



## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skye said:
> 
> 
> 
> *  Fox News Says Sharia Law Is Taking Over Because Of A Muslim Women's Swim Class  *
> 
> 
> Without a doubt the West obsession with favoring the Muslims as a respected disadvantaged  minority who therefore must be given preferential treatment  is causing immense problems.
> The lack of understanding and naivete regarding the true purpose of these mostly unwelcome immigrants is truly astounding!
> Once these type of concessions are granted at the expense of the mayority of non-Muslims, then there is no stopping the flow which is exactly what the Muslims want.
> They are striving initially for Sharia self-ruling. dominated enclaves (and they have largely succeeded at this in several countries already) ....the next ambitious step, of course, even if it takes centuries, is for fundamental Islam to take over more and more of the world.
> 
> Fox news is 100% correct in recognizing the danger and stupidity involved in this sort of action!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, just look at Europe, or a bigger example, Indonesia where there were more beheadings of Christians recently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which has nothing to do with this.
Click to expand...


It has everything to do with this.  We are talking about how the Muslims push their way in and take over an entire country.  Do you think it all happened at once?  No, it started this way.


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if the white women wanted an hour to themselves with no blacks in the pool, is that ok now too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the YMCA can do whatever the hell it wants. I'm sure doing something like that would not be good for their image, and ultimately not a good decision for their business.
> 
> Perhaps there it is advantageous for the YMCA to set aside this hour for Muslim kids because without it they wouldn't have all those kids paying for a class. Again, who are you? Why is it up to you or Sheila to decide what the private business - YMCA - decides to do with their pools?
> 
> Do you own them? Do you operate them?
Click to expand...


Ah ok so a business can do whatever the hell it wants including racist and discriminatory practices, welcome to Mississipi 1951!


----------



## KevinWestern

Againsheila said:


> I have a friend who until recently was a single Dad.  He had his daughter in swim lessons at the Y and he went with her twice a week.  Now you have no problem telling this man he's not welcome.  That is discrimination and that is not what the Y is suppose to be about.  BTW, he's been a member of the Y for years.  Last year he stopped.  Gee, I wonder why?



Sheila! We're talking ONE hour here. One freaking hour a WEEK, actually. You're unfairly making it out to be like the YMCA is banning all non-Muslims from ever using the pool. This man IS welcome; he just needs to choose a time that's not this one single hour. 

Are you just as upset when your friend tries to use the pool and it's closed for "adult swim"? Think about that for a moment....

Do you see how ridiculous you're being?


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if the white women wanted an hour to themselves with no blacks in the pool, is that ok now too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.  Again - it's not just one category of women swimming in this hour, it's any women.
> 
> But then again - we have women only, men only, seniors only and age divisions.  So....is that ok?
Click to expand...


This is not for women only its for Muslim women only, if my girlfriend wanted to go and swim with them in her bikini they would not let her.


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a friend who until recently was a single Dad.  He had his daughter in swim lessons at the Y and he went with her twice a week.  Now you have no problem telling this man he's not welcome.  That is discrimination and that is not what the Y is suppose to be about.  BTW, he's been a member of the Y for years.  Last year he stopped.  Gee, I wonder why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheila! We're talking ONE hour here. One freaking hour a WEEK, actually. You're unfairly making it out to be like the YMCA is banning all non-Muslims from ever using the pool. This man IS welcome; he just needs to choose a time that's not this one single hour.
> 
> Are you just as upset when your friend tries to use the pool and it's closed for "adult swim"? Think about that for a moment....
> 
> Do you see how ridiculous you're being?
Click to expand...


One hour is how it starts, than its a whole day, than its....well you get it.


----------



## Coyote

So basically women like Orthodox Jewish women and tradtional Muslim women who have religious modesty requirements, can't be allowed any special time to exercise in private establishments because that constitutes an invasion.

Crazy.


----------



## kiwiman127

I have some exclusive pictures from the Saint Paul YMCA!
The 1st one is the Muslim swimming class and the second one is a Baptist all-women's water aerobics class ( I wonder what law those Baptist women are following?).  Does anyone see any men there?


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> What if the white women wanted an hour to themselves with no blacks in the pool, is that ok now too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, the YMCA can do whatever the hell it wants. I'm sure doing something like that would not be good for their image, and ultimately not a good decision for their business.
> 
> Perhaps there it is advantageous for the YMCA to set aside this hour for Muslim kids because without it they wouldn't have all those kids paying for a class. Again, who are you? Why is it up to you or Sheila to decide what the private business - YMCA - decides to do with their pools?
> 
> Do you own them? Do you operate them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah ok so a business can do whatever the hell it wants including racist and discriminatory practices, welcome to Mississipi 1951!
Click to expand...

No private business can break the law.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> Ah ok so a business can do whatever the hell it wants including racist and discriminatory practices, welcome to Mississipi 1951!



Let me rephrase. It's illegal for a businesses to refuse service to someone because they're black or because they're Christian, however in the YMCA case they're not discriminating against anyone. 

Christians are allowed to be a part of this class; they just have to follow the rules laid out by the YMCA to participate for this single hour.

If you're upset about that, you should also be upset about "adult swim" or "men's swimming class".


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> So basically women like Orthodox Jewish women and tradtional Muslim women who have religious modesty requirements, can't be allowed any special time to exercise in private establishments because that constitutes an invasion.
> 
> Crazy.



Jewish women are not in the article and I don't remember hearing them wanting to be segregated, why do you mention them?


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah ok so a business can do whatever the hell it wants including racist and discriminatory practices, welcome to Mississipi 1951!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me rephrase. It's illegal for a businesses to refuse service to someone because they're black or because they're Christian, however in the YMCA case they're not discriminating against anyone.
> 
> Christians are allowed to be a part of this class; they just have to follow the rules laid out by the YMCA to participate for this single hour.
> 
> If you're upset about that, you should also be upset about "adult swim" or "men's swimming class".
Click to expand...


Its not the gender thing that bothers me but the religious aspect, Muslim only swimming class is discriminating, are we not good enough to share a pool with Muslims?


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a friend who until recently was a single Dad.  He had his daughter in swim lessons at the Y and he went with her twice a week.  Now you have no problem telling this man he's not welcome.  That is discrimination and that is not what the Y is suppose to be about.  BTW, he's been a member of the Y for years.  Last year he stopped.  Gee, I wonder why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheila! We're talking ONE hour here. One freaking hour a WEEK, actually. You're unfairly making it out to be like the YMCA is banning all non-Muslims from ever using the pool. This man IS welcome; he just needs to choose a time that's not this one single hour.
> 
> Are you just as upset when your friend tries to use the pool and it's closed for "adult swim"? Think about that for a moment....
> 
> Do you see how ridiculous you're being?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> One hour is how it starts, than its a whole day, than its....well you get it.
Click to expand...


Lol, come on dude. The YMCA designated one hour at one location (out of hundreds of thousands of swim hours nationwide/wk) and that scares you? Really?


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sheila! We're talking ONE hour here. One freaking hour a WEEK, actually. You're unfairly making it out to be like the YMCA is banning all non-Muslims from ever using the pool. This man IS welcome; he just needs to choose a time that's not this one single hour.
> 
> Are you just as upset when your friend tries to use the pool and it's closed for "adult swim"? Think about that for a moment....
> 
> Do you see how ridiculous you're being?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One hour is how it starts, than its a whole day, than its....well you get it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lol, come on dude. The YMCA designated one hour at one location (out of hundreds of thousands of swim hours nationwide/wk) and that scares you? Really?
Click to expand...


Not scare, more like concerned. Like Sheila said Islamic law doesn't come all at once, its in bits and pieces like this. This is all happening because of religious motivations.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically women like Orthodox Jewish women and tradtional Muslim women who have religious modesty requirements, can't be allowed any special time to exercise in private establishments because that constitutes an invasion.
> 
> Crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish women are not in the article and I don't remember hearing them wanting to be segregated, why do you mention them?
Click to expand...


Because I posted a related article, that refers to the problem of religious women being able to exercise - the two main groups are Muslim and Orthodox Jews who's religious codes require them to dress a certain way when around men and that makes it hard to exercise.  None of them are "demanding" anything - they are asking.  The issue isn't being "segregated" from other people, but able to dress more freely while not being viewed by men.


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically women like Orthodox Jewish women and tradtional Muslim women who have religious modesty requirements, can't be allowed any special time to exercise in private establishments because that constitutes an invasion.
> 
> Crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish women are not in the article and I don't remember hearing them wanting to be segregated, why do you mention them?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because I posted a related article, that refers to the problem of religious women being able to exercise - the two main groups are Muslim and Orthodox Jews who's religious codes require them to dress a certain way when around men and that makes it hard to exercise.  None of them are "demanding" anything - they are asking.
Click to expand...


So are Jewish women welcome in the water with the Somalis in Minnesota?


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> Its not the gender thing that bothers me but the religious aspect, Muslim only swimming class is discriminating, are we not good enough to share a pool with Muslims?



Are Christian or Jewish children not allowed to join the class? Did I miss that in the article?


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not the gender thing that bothers me but the religious aspect, Muslim only swimming class is discriminating, are we not good enough to share a pool with Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are Christian or Jewish children not allowed to join the class? Did I miss that in the article?
Click to expand...


I thought this was only for Muslim women in Islamic dress? are they letting women join them in western bathing suits?


----------



## Bloodrock44

That's my question. Is this Muslim women only or just women only? If it's women only, no problem. If it's Muslim only it's bullshit.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not the gender thing that bothers me but the religious aspect, Muslim only swimming class is discriminating, are we not good enough to share a pool with Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are Christian or Jewish children not allowed to join the class? Did I miss that in the article?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought this was only for Muslim women in Islamic dress? are they letting women join them in western bathing suits?
Click to expand...


You're saying that a Christian - if she chooses to do so - can't put on an Islamic dress and join the class? Does the YMCA do lie detector tests to ensure that all the participants are Muslim? That would obviously be ridiculous.

Point is, if a Christian said "hey I want to participate" and follows the rules for that hour the YMCA won't be turning that person down.


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are Christian or Jewish children not allowed to join the class? Did I miss that in the article?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought this was only for Muslim women in Islamic dress? are they letting women join them in western bathing suits?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're saying that a Christian - if she chooses to do so - can't put on an Islamic dress and join the class? Does the YMCA do lie detector tests to ensure that all the participants are Muslim? That would obviously be ridiculous.
> 
> Point is, if a Christian said "hey I want to participate" and follows the rules for that hour the YMCA won't be turning that person down.
Click to expand...


So Christian women have to don Islamic gear to swim in the pool? this doesn't sound insane to you?


----------



## tinydancer

I understand the modesty issue. But lets get to it. Different cultures. This is where we have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Up here we had a big deal going on because muslim girls who are modest (oh and don't piss off your dad or your brother or you're dead) wanted to play soccer but weren't allowed because of head scarves. Oh this one went wild. 

BUT one more time the mother of invention is necessity, bingo bango this wonderful muslim girl figured out how to make a soccer regulation, sharia law compliant head piece.


----------



## KevinWestern

Bloodrock44 said:


> That's my question. Is this Muslim women only or just women only? If it's women only, no problem. If it's Muslim only it's bullshit.



It's not "Muslim women only", it's "whoever wants to follow the rules of that particular class". The rules are set by the owners of the pool (obviously).

What is so crazy about a private company setting rules on how their patrons use the assets they own?


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> Bloodrock44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's my question. Is this Muslim women only or just women only? If it's women only, no problem. If it's Muslim only it's bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not "Muslim women only", it's "whoever wants to follow the rules of that particular class". The rules are set by the owners of the pool (obviously).
> 
> What is so crazy about a private company setting rules on how their patrons use the assets they own?
Click to expand...


This isn't really about just being "modest", this was started with religious purposes favoring Muslims.


----------



## High_Gravity

I'm gonna dip out in a minute guys good chat.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> So Christian women have to don Islamic gear to swim in the pool? this doesn't sound insane to you?



First of all, I don't believe that anyone is required to wear anything specific. The only rule is that "no men are allowed in the pool area" for that hour. If you have info that specifies otherwise, let me know.


----------



## tinydancer

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought this was only for Muslim women in Islamic dress? are they letting women join them in western bathing suits?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're saying that a Christian - if she chooses to do so - can't put on an Islamic dress and join the class? Does the YMCA do lie detector tests to ensure that all the participants are Muslim? That would obviously be ridiculous.
> 
> Point is, if a Christian said "hey I want to participate" and follows the rules for that hour the YMCA won't be turning that person down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Christian women have to don Islamic gear to swim in the pool? this doesn't sound insane to you?
Click to expand...


Oh boy this thread is going off the rails. Let's get back to basics. 

As far as I know it's just a separation of genders. And don't forget it's a patriarichal sp? society. 

There is no option for the girls. So should we punish the young girls for their society? I've struggled with this question for years. 

What do we do? Cave to the men? Or have their daughters risk certain death in an honor killing?

Make no mistake about this. The men demand this. Not the women they put out there as controlled robots.


----------



## Sunni Man

High_Gravity said:


> I thought this was only for Muslim women in Islamic dress? are they letting women join them in western bathing suits?


The muslim women where I live go to a women's only swim hour and wear regular western style bathing suits.

It is open for all women regardless of race or religion.   ..


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bloodrock44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's my question. Is this Muslim women only or just women only? If it's women only, no problem. If it's Muslim only it's bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not "Muslim women only", it's "whoever wants to follow the rules of that particular class". The rules are set by the owners of the pool (obviously).
> 
> What is so crazy about a private company setting rules on how their patrons use the assets they own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This isn't really about just being "modest", this was started with religious purposes favoring Muslims.
Click to expand...


It's catering in a small way to a certain cultural group that exists in the area. It's a way to bring in new customers that would not otherwise swim at that location. Don't they have a right to do that? Doesn't a cafe have a right to write their menus in spanish and english if there's a large Mexican population living nearby? 

Let me ask you something; if the YMCA were to block off an hour of swim for disabled people (ie if you're not disabled you CAN'T use the pool for that time), would you also be upset?


----------



## tinydancer

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Christian women have to don Islamic gear to swim in the pool? this doesn't sound insane to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, I don't believe that anyone is required to wear anything specific. The only rule is that "no men are allowed in the pool area" for that hour. If you have info that specifies otherwise, let me know.
Click to expand...


This is what I get off this too Kevin. Just gender specific. I'm willing to cave on this just so the girls can have some sort of life. 

But I'm torn. Because if I and others give in to this it's like this endorsement of keeping women in the stone age. 

Aye carumba!


----------



## Sunni Man

tinydancer said:


> Make no mistake about this. The men demand this. Not the women they put out there as controlled robots.


Totally incorrect.

The muslim women want gender segregated swim classes.

And are the one's who petitioned for them.   ...


----------



## tinydancer

And on the other hand, I love the modesty. I respect the modesty. 

I'm really torn on this. Ok I better get out of this thread right now or you guys will be calling me Sybil for hitting on so many different views...............


----------



## Sunni Man

tinydancer said:


> And on the other hand, I love the modesty. I respect the modesty.
> 
> I'm really torn on this. Ok I better get out of this thread right now or you guys will be calling me Sybil for hitting on so many different views...............


'Modesty' is the best operative word for gender segregated swimming.

The muslim women I know would rather jump off a tall bridge than to swim half dressed in a mixed gender pool with strange men.

And I am talking about educated American born muslimah's.   ..


----------



## KevinWestern

tinydancer said:


> \
> This is what I get off this too Kevin. Just gender specific. I'm willing to cave on this just so the girls can have some sort of life.
> 
> But I'm torn. Because if I and others give in to this it's like this endorsement of keeping women in the stone age.
> 
> Aye carumba!



An endorsement? This is an example of the YMCA willingly designing a class that will attract a certain cultural group; I would call that a business decision. 

A grocery store can sell Kosher foods and not necessarily "endorse" Judaism - right?


----------



## tinydancer

Sunni Man said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Make no mistake about this. The men demand this. Not the women they put out there as controlled robots.
> 
> 
> 
> Totally incorrect.
> 
> The muslim women want gender segregated swim classes.
> 
> And are the one's who petitioned for them.   ...
Click to expand...


See my other post  

You bettcha they want segregated swim classes. Why? Because that way they are allowed to go for a swim.

Come on you know darn well you weren't going to get a whole batch of dudes signing that petition.  

But many are not like you Sunni Man. You think things through. But so do I. It's trying to make two worlds meet. 

This is why I brought up the young lady in Quebec who found a way to meet modesty issues and took on the whole soccer federation. She rocked it and designed can you imagine this its so wonderful, she designed an acceptable hijab for soccer. 

I mean it was a win win! I love this young lady. And FIFA approved it man. This was so cool. 



FIFA Approves Hijab Wear For Muslim Female Soccer Players | NDJ World Mobile


----------



## Sunni Man

By 'petition' I meant the muslim women asking the YMCA to allow a women only swim time.   ...


----------



## tinydancer

Sunni Man said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Make no mistake about this. The men demand this. Not the women they put out there as controlled robots.
> 
> 
> 
> Totally incorrect.
> 
> The muslim women want gender segregated swim classes.
> 
> And are the one's who petitioned for them.   ...
Click to expand...


Are you going to find one muslim woman who would say they wished to swim in integrated pools? Come on man. I don't know one. 

Come on let's be honest. Women of Islam would not be allowed to swim if the pools are integrated.

I understand that. And you know what I want to see the pools segregated so that they can swim. 

One hour is not asking too much.

You have to remember though how this battle goes. Women here battled to knock off everything "male". Long story. Too sick to tell it. Crap this Daytime Q is weird. I cant believe people drive on this stuff. 

Apologies. On medication reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly bad flu.


----------



## thereisnospoon

Againsheila said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> From the link in the OP  "The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  *ages 5 to 17*  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class. "
> 
> 
> 
> Classes one hour a week.........definitely creeping sharia.   ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, if it's your 6 year old daughter and you're the father, are you going to be okay with this?
> 
> Nice deflection though.  The truth is that yes, it is creeping.  It starts slow with things like this, check out what's happened in Europe if you don't believe it; or better yet, Indonesia.
Click to expand...


Cut the shit....Now, explain how this should apply to public or neighborhood swimming pools?
Should these be forced have girls only swim, boys only swim, etc?
Watch this.


----------



## tinydancer

Sunni Man said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Make no mistake about this. The men demand this. Not the women they put out there as controlled robots.
> 
> 
> 
> Totally incorrect.
> 
> The muslim women want gender segregated swim classes.
> 
> And are the one's who petitioned for them.   ...
Click to expand...


Damn I missed this post. I think there would be a whole batch of non Islam women loving a place they could swim and work out in. But we know that there is a certain segment of hard core Islamist dads and uncles who demand this of their women. That they be constantly separated.

But you have to remember the 80's and how hard women's groups fought to desegragize is that even a word; am I pulling a Palin here? Mens clubs.


----------



## Sunni Man

Both muslims and orthodox jews have segregated seating at their houses of worship and social functions.

And this isn't going to change no matter how much the western secularists and feminists hate it.    ...


----------



## Trajan

g5000 said:


> Remember, friends: The GOP has always been a friend to minorities.  At least from 1860 - 1964.  Everyone you see getting paranoid about Muslims and Sharia Law in this topic is therefore a leftie Democrat.  And that includes Fox News.
> 
> The ones who want to kick the darkies out of the swimming pool are *not *Republicans.



you did read the "article",  right?

YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.


----------



## tinydancer

Sunni Man said:


> Both muslims and orthodox jews have segregated seating at their houses of worship and social functions.
> 
> And this isn't going to change no matter how much the western secularists and feminists hate it.    ...



I like to think of this as options presented. Oh cripes now I'm going to sound like Sylvia in the Golden Girls................

"Picture it 1993 fighting for the right to swim with men in YMCA swimming pools"

And don't shoot me here, trying to give the bigger picture

"Picture it 2013 fighting for the right to swim in women only pools".

How screwed up are we people?


----------



## tinydancer

Trajan said:


> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, friends: The GOP has always been a friend to minorities.  At least from 1860 - 1964.  Everyone you see getting paranoid about Muslims and Sharia Law in this topic is therefore a leftie Democrat.  And that includes Fox News.
> 
> The ones who want to kick the darkies out of the swimming pool are *not *Republicans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you did read the "article",  right?
> 
> YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
Click to expand...


I can battle back and forth daily with Sunni Man and love the debate.  And I'll hit anyone on how we get to the modesty.

But the bottom line, it's an adult political and religious discussion and we should not deprive these girls of their options. 

And I'm glad I live in a place where I can talk about it and debate it. 

I want those girls to have their class.


----------



## Trajan

tinydancer said:


> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> g5000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember, friends: The GOP has always been a friend to minorities.  At least from 1860 - 1964.  Everyone you see getting paranoid about Muslims and Sharia Law in this topic is therefore a leftie Democrat.  And that includes Fox News.
> 
> The ones who want to kick the darkies out of the swimming pool are *not *Republicans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you did read the "article",  right?
> 
> YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I can battle back and forth daily with Sunni Man and love the debate.  And I'll hit anyone on how we get to the modesty.
> 
> But the bottom line, it's an adult political and religious discussion and we should not deprive these girls of their options.
> 
> And I'm glad I live in a place where I can talk about it and debate it.
> 
> I want those girls to have their class.
Click to expand...


the ymca is I believe a private org., so I could care less, fine by me,  but lets not use modesty as an excuse,  at all, their modesty is the by product of  religious tenet, so its a throw away term they threw in there, it is not germane imho. 

I posted that for g5000, as to his post.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not the gender thing that bothers me but the religious aspect, Muslim only swimming class is discriminating, are we not good enough to share a pool with Muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are Christian or Jewish children not allowed to join the class? Did I miss that in the article?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought this was only for Muslim women in Islamic dress? are they letting women join them in western bathing suits?
Click to expand...


My impression - correct me if I'm wrong - is that not having men there allows them to dress more freely - like in a bathing suit so they can actually swim.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jewish women are not in the article and I don't remember hearing them wanting to be segregated, why do you mention them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I posted a related article, that refers to the problem of religious women being able to exercise - the two main groups are Muslim and Orthodox Jews who's religious codes require them to dress a certain way when around men and that makes it hard to exercise.  None of them are "demanding" anything - they are asking.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So are Jewish women welcome in the water with the Somalis in Minnesota?
Click to expand...


I would think so - just no men.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bloodrock44 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's my question. Is this Muslim women only or just women only? If it's women only, no problem. If it's Muslim only it's bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not "Muslim women only", it's "whoever wants to follow the rules of that particular class". The rules are set by the owners of the pool (obviously).
> 
> What is so crazy about a private company setting rules on how their patrons use the assets they own?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This isn't really about just being "modest", this was started with religious purposes favoring Muslims.
Click to expand...


I don't think so - I think it was started to give a group of people who couldn't ordinarily participate a chance to do so.  These are women and girls who are refugees from one of the most war torn countries where attitudes towards women are very backwards.  It takes a generation or more to change those attitudes and in the mean time, these girls are shy, isolated, and have limited social opportunities.  From what I read - the cooperative effort between the police and the Y have increased their confidence and brought them out of their shells.  This is not a bad thing.


----------



## Not2BSubjugated

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Sharia law takes hold, liberals will be the first ones hung from the lamp posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Liberals will be the first to convert to save their own lives.   They will just have to give up things like free condoms, gay rights and twerking.   Right now, liberals see muslims as allies in the battle to rid the country of Christianity.   They aren't smart enough to think about what comes next.
Click to expand...


I'm right leaning, but God damn it not twerking.  I don't know if there's a God, but if there is, and He created the human form, I'd imagine He'd be HOLY SHIT offended by anyone who doesn't appreciate something as singularly beautiful as a good twerk.

Not that Miley Cyrus style, shake my hips from side to side while bent over "twerking" (generally reserved for girls who can't twerk due to deficiencies in coordination), and not that individually twisting each thigh back and forth shit that strippers do when they wanna lay down and still look like they're shaking ass, but actual, true-to-life, real-deal twerking.

I'm a fan.  You don't gotta be a leftist to appreciate something that awesome.


----------



## Againsheila

KevinWestern said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a friend who until recently was a single Dad.  He had his daughter in swim lessons at the Y and he went with her twice a week.  Now you have no problem telling this man he's not welcome.  That is discrimination and that is not what the Y is suppose to be about.  BTW, he's been a member of the Y for years.  Last year he stopped.  Gee, I wonder why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheila! We're talking ONE hour here. One freaking hour a WEEK, actually. You're unfairly making it out to be like the YMCA is banning all non-Muslims from ever using the pool. This man IS welcome; he just needs to choose a time that's not this one single hour.
> 
> Are you just as upset when your friend tries to use the pool and it's closed for "adult swim"? Think about that for a moment....
> 
> Do you see how ridiculous you're being?
Click to expand...



You are comparing a children's swim lesson for Muslim little girls with an adult swim for all adults.....and you think I'm being ridiculous?


----------



## WillReadmore

GHook93 said:


> Muslims are using a Sharia Law religious requirement to accommodate themselves!!! They won't allow men to appease Muslims Sharia law tenents. How is this not a creeping Sharia Law story?
> 
> Just imagine it elderly white women state they didn't want any young N!!!!RS swimming in their pool at the same time? A hypocrite like you would be scream from the fences!


No, you need to read the story.

It is men who are being excluded, not non-Muslims.

This is an issue of the greater modesty of Muslims.

We've grown accustomed to the twerking and the commercialization of sex.

There are those who aren't totally excited about that.  In fact, I've heard Christians say they, too, aren't thrilled with our nation's treatment of sexuality.

It seems more logical to me that Christians and Muslims would find common cause in moving our society in a direction of values that both these religions share - even if not to the same degree.


----------



## KevinWestern

Againsheila said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a friend who until recently was a single Dad.  He had his daughter in swim lessons at the Y and he went with her twice a week.  Now you have no problem telling this man he's not welcome.  That is discrimination and that is not what the Y is suppose to be about.  BTW, he's been a member of the Y for years.  Last year he stopped.  Gee, I wonder why?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheila! We're talking ONE hour here. One freaking hour a WEEK, actually. You're unfairly making it out to be like the YMCA is banning all non-Muslims from ever using the pool. This man IS welcome; he just needs to choose a time that's not this one single hour.
> 
> Are you just as upset when your friend tries to use the pool and it's closed for "adult swim"? Think about that for a moment....
> 
> Do you see how ridiculous you're being?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You are comparing a children's swim lesson for Muslim little girls with an adult swim for all adults.....and you think I'm being ridiculous?
Click to expand...


Any girl - Muslim or non-Muslim - can take part in the class.


----------



## tinydancer

Trajan said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trajan said:
> 
> 
> 
> you did read the "article",  right?
> 
> YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can battle back and forth daily with Sunni Man and love the debate.  And I'll hit anyone on how we get to the modesty.
> 
> But the bottom line, it's an adult political and religious discussion and we should not deprive these girls of their options.
> 
> And I'm glad I live in a place where I can talk about it and debate it.
> 
> I want those girls to have their class.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> the ymca is I believe a private org., so I could care less, fine by me,  but lets not use modesty as an excuse,  at all, their modesty is the by product of  religious tenet, so its a throw away term they threw in there, it is not germane imho.
> 
> I posted that for g5000, as to his post.
Click to expand...


I don't know where to go here but if I am to believe that I have to debate this on the balls to the walls here based on our laws...............

whoa geeze. I could go at FGM a million miles an hour a million miles a day I could hit this swarm the board and completely nuke anyone who came at me. 

I dont want to do that.


----------



## tinydancer

I guess I just don't understand this.


----------



## Immanuel

BlindBoo said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Sharia law takes hold, liberals will be the first ones hung from the lamp posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Liberals will be the first to convert to save their own lives.   They will just have to give up things like free condoms, gay rights and twerking.   Right now,* liberals see muslims as allies *in the battle to rid the country of Christianity.   They aren't smart enough to think about what comes next.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> An outright falsehood, as has been pointed out many, many times......
> 
> Most liberals do not side with intolerant religionist or zealots.
Click to expand...


Most liberals are intolerant zealots.

Immie


----------



## Roudy

Againsheila said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, just look at Europe, or a bigger example, Indonesia where there were more beheadings of Christians recently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which has nothing to do with this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with this.  We are talking about how the Muslims push their way in and take over an entire country.  Do you think it all happened at once?  No, it started this way.
Click to expand...

Exactly.  Now watch the Islam apologists scream and holler.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which has nothing to do with this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with this.  We are talking about how the Muslims push their way in and take over an entire country.  Do you think it all happened at once?  No, it started this way.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly.  Now watch the Islam apologists scream and holler.
Click to expand...


Jews let Muslims into America to begin with. Let's attack the real culprits here.

immigration


----------



## Roudy

GHook93 said:


> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> 
> You just can't make this crap up,...
> 
> _Fox News anchor Heather Nauert announced on Monday that a YMCA swim class that respected the religious traditions of Muslim girls was proof that Sharia law is now changing everything.
> 
> The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in towns across the Midwest.
> 
> Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool, Nauert pointed out on Monday. Sharia law is now changing everything._
> 
> Fox News: YMCA swim class for Muslim girls proves Sharia law is ?changing everything? | The Raw Story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Devil's Greatest Trick was to make the world believe he didn't exist!
> 
> Muslims are using a Sharia Law religious requirement to accommodate themselves!!! They won't allow men to appease Muslims Sharia law tenents. How is this not a creeping Sharia Law story?
> 
> Just imagine it elderly white women state they didn't want any young N!!!!RS swimming in their pool at the same time? A hypocrite like you would be scream from the fences!
Click to expand...

Hey, if they don't like it, screw 'em.  Of all places, they want special treatment at a CHRISTIAN based establishment?!  The arrogance expecting people to tolerate the intolerants.  This shit is going on every level of society where Muslims are in contact with non Muslims.  

They want their barbaric Shariah law pool?  Go do it in a mosque, or go rent a private pool for certain number of hours and do your Islamic Shariah crap there.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Black_Label said:
> 
> 
> 
> You just can't make this crap up,...
> 
> _Fox News anchor Heather Nauert announced on Monday that a YMCA swim class that respected the religious traditions of Muslim girls was proof that Sharia law is now changing everything.
> 
> The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in towns across the Midwest.
> 
> Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool, Nauert pointed out on Monday. Sharia law is now changing everything._
> 
> Fox News: YMCA swim class for Muslim girls proves Sharia law is ?changing everything? | The Raw Story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Devil's Greatest Trick was to make the world believe he didn't exist!
> 
> Muslims are using a Sharia Law religious requirement to accommodate themselves!!! They won't allow men to appease Muslims Sharia law tenents. How is this not a creeping Sharia Law story?
> 
> Just imagine it elderly white women state they didn't want any young N!!!!RS swimming in their pool at the same time? A hypocrite like you would be scream from the fences!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey, if they don't like it, screw 'em.  Of all places, they want special treatment at a CHRISTIAN based establishment?!  The arrogance expecting people to tolerate the intolerants.  This shit is going on every level of society where Muslims are in contact with non Muslims.
> 
> They want their barbaric Shariah law pool?  Go do it in a mosque, or go rent a private pool for certain number of hours and do your Islamic Shariah crap there.
Click to expand...


Their chutzpah! Kind of reminds of another religious/ethnic minority that pushed their way in where they don't belong, lol, just kidding not really.


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has everything to do with this.  We are talking about how the Muslims push their way in and take over an entire country.  Do you think it all happened at once?  No, it started this way.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly.  Now watch the Islam apologists scream and holler.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Jews let Muslims into America to begin with. Let's attack the real culprits here.
> 
> immigration
Click to expand...

Sooner or later the Nazi  Fargen Icehole will find a way to blame Jews for everything.  I wouldn't even use that Neo Nazi article you posted as toilet paper.


----------



## Roudy

WillReadmore said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are using a Sharia Law religious requirement to accommodate themselves!!! They won't allow men to appease Muslims Sharia law tenents. How is this not a creeping Sharia Law story?
> 
> Just imagine it elderly white women state they didn't want any young N!!!!RS swimming in their pool at the same time? A hypocrite like you would be scream from the fences!
> 
> 
> 
> No, you need to read the story.
> 
> It is men who are being excluded, not non-Muslims.
> 
> This is an issue of the greater modesty of Muslims.
> 
> We've grown accustomed to the twerking and the commercialization of sex.
> 
> There are those who aren't totally excited about that.  In fact, I've heard Christians say they, too, aren't thrilled with our nation's treatment of sexuality.
> 
> It seems more logical to me that Christians and Muslims would find common cause in moving our society in a direction of values that both these religions share - even if not to the same degree.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have a problem with it had the YMCA not been a Christian based organization.


----------



## Iceman

roudy said:


> iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> exactly.  Now watch the islam apologists scream and holler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jews let muslims into america to begin with. Let's attack the real culprits here.
> 
> immigration
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sooner or later the nazi  fargen icehole will find a way to blame jews for everything.
Click to expand...


lol. They usually are!


----------



## Iceman

Did you read the passage from the book Roudy?

It is a good book. You should take the time to read it. It is called a_ Culture of Critique_.


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Did you read the passage from the book Roudy?
> 
> It is a good book. You should take the time to read it. It is called a_ Culture of Critique_.


Really now?  Why do you Nazis post articles from career anti Semites like flies circling around shit?
Here is the author of your "immigration" link, your beloved Kevin Mc Donald, moron:

John Hartung, an anesthetist at first interested in his work, said MacDonald's The Culture of Critique was "quite disturbing, seriously misinformed about evolutionary genetics, and suffering from a huge blind spot about the nature of Christianity."

MacDonald has also been accused of employing scapegoating techniques that resemble classical Nazism.

Reviewing MacDonald's Separation and Its Discontents in 2000, Zev Garber writes that MacDonald works from the assumption that the dual Torah is the blueprint of the eventual Jewish dominion over the world, and that he sees contemporary antisemitism, the Holocaust, and attacks against Israel as "provoked by Jews themselves." Garber concludes that MacDonald's "rambling who-is-who-isn't roundup of Jews responsible for the 'Jewish Problem' borders on the irrational and is conducive to misrepresentation."

MacDonald even dishonestly made up lines from the work of British Holocaust denier David Irving. Citing Irving's Uprising which was published in 1981 for the twenty-fifth anniversary of Hungary's failed anti-Communist revolution in 1956, MacDonald asserted in the Culture of Critique, "The domination of the Hungarian communist Jewish bureaucracy thus appears to have had overtones of sexual and reproductive domination of gentiles in which Jewish males were able to have disproportionate sexual access to gentile females." Lieberman, who also noted that MacDonald is not a historian, debunked those assertions.

Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), an institute that monitors neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups, has said of MacDonald that "he put the anti-Semitism under the guise of scholarly work... Kevin MacDonald&#8217;s work is nothing but gussied-up anti-Semitism. At base it says that Jews are out to get us through their agenda ... His work is bandied about by just about every neo-Nazi group in America."
The Anti-Defamation League has included MacDonald in its list of American extremists, Extremism in America, and written a report on MacDonald's views and ties. According to the ADL, MacDonald's views on Jews mimic those of anti-Semites from the late 19th and early 20th centuries.


----------



## Iceman

LOL, Jews and far left communists like the SPLC are offended by it, lol. What a surprise!


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> LOL, Jews and far left communists like the SPLC are offended by it, lol. What a surprise!


What's surprising is you continually get humiliated and owned by me, yet you keep coming back to eat more poop.  The only explanation for that would be that you do indeed enjoy eating poop.


----------



## Iceman

LOL, you are a GIF Machine! A Jewish GIF machine. A JIF!


----------



## tinydancer

Iceman said:


> LOL, Jews and far left communists like the SPLC are offended by it, lol. What a surprise!



I'm watching now. What a strange intercourse.


----------



## Iceman

tinydancer said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, Jews and far left communists like the SPLC are offended by it, lol. What a surprise!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm watching now. What a strange intercourse.
Click to expand...


What a story tinydancer!


----------



## profesao

Katzndogz said:


> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.


This was the first person to reply to this thread. It just shows how blinded the right is. The guy you were agreeing with was being sarcastic! Did you not see the photo of the GOP with their head up their ass? I think you just explained the photo...


----------



## tinydancer

Iceman said:


> LOL, you are a GIF Machine! A Jewish GIF machine. A JIF!



Just for fun for me. You are female. Age mid twenties. You have dark brown hair.But it is streaked.  Hazel eyes. I bet on your eyes. Hazel. Would you like me to continue? I'm an empath.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

> But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in towns across the Midwest.
> 
> Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool, Nauert pointed out on Monday. Sharia law is now changing everything.



Wrong, of course  and extremely irresponsible.


----------



## Iceman

tinydancer said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, you are a GIF Machine! A Jewish GIF machine. A JIF!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just for fun for me. You are female. Age mid twenties. You have dark brown hair.But it is streaked.  Hazel eyes. I bet on your eyes. Hazel. Would you like me to continue? I'm an empath.
Click to expand...


Go ahead babe


----------



## profesao

g5000 said:


> Remember, friends: The GOP has always been a friend to minorities.  At least from 1860 - 1964.  Everyone you see getting paranoid about Muslims and Sharia Law in this topic is therefore a leftie Democrat.  And that includes Fox News.
> 
> The ones who want to kick the darkies out of the swimming pool are *not *Republicans.



Is it opposite day today?


----------



## Indofred

Katzndogz said:


> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.



Do you realise this story was a lie?
They made it up and only idiots believe it.


----------



## Indofred

Sunshine said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have had 'women only' swim classes at the YMCA in my city for several years and it has nothing to do with sharia law.
> 
> It is open to all females regardless of ethnicity or religion.
> 
> And men aren't allowed into the pool area.    ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When are the 'men's only' classes?
Click to expand...


That's a sexism issue, not a religious one.


----------



## tinydancer

Iceman said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, you are a GIF Machine! A Jewish GIF machine. A JIF!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just for fun for me. You are female. Age mid twenties. You have dark brown hair.But it is streaked.  Hazel eyes. I bet on your eyes. Hazel. Would you like me to continue? I'm an empath.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go ahead babe
Click to expand...


How close am I because I can continue. And I am vibing.


----------



## tinydancer

Indofred said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realise this story was a lie?
> They made it up and only idiots believe it.
Click to expand...


Go to Montreal asshole


----------



## Iceman

tinydancer said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just for fun for me. You are female. Age mid twenties. You have dark brown hair.But it is streaked.  Hazel eyes. I bet on your eyes. Hazel. Would you like me to continue? I'm an empath.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead babe
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How close am I because I can continue. And I am vibing.
Click to expand...


As close as you want to be.


----------



## Iceman

tinydancer said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realise this story was a lie?
> They made it up and only idiots believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go to Montreal asshole
Click to expand...


Montreal is the best city in Canada, maybe because it is the least like the rest of Canada, which is a shittier version of America.


----------



## Indofred

tinydancer said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realise this story was a lie?
> They made it up and only idiots believe it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Go to Montreal asshole
Click to expand...


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_PG3xIUrv0]swimming pool - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## WillReadmore

Roudy said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are using a Sharia Law religious requirement to accommodate themselves!!! They won't allow men to appease Muslims Sharia law tenents. How is this not a creeping Sharia Law story?
> 
> Just imagine it elderly white women state they didn't want any young N!!!!RS swimming in their pool at the same time? A hypocrite like you would be scream from the fences!
> 
> 
> 
> No, you need to read the story.
> 
> It is men who are being excluded, not non-Muslims.
> 
> This is an issue of the greater modesty of Muslims.
> 
> We've grown accustomed to the twerking and the commercialization of sex.
> 
> There are those who aren't totally excited about that.  In fact, I've heard Christians say they, too, aren't thrilled with our nation's treatment of sexuality.
> 
> It seems more logical to me that Christians and Muslims would find common cause in moving our society in a direction of values that both these religions share - even if not to the same degree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wouldn't have a problem with it had the YMCA not been a Christian based organization.
Click to expand...

The YMCA must require that men be allowed to watch women swim?

I really don't see your argument here.


----------



## Not2BSubjugated

WillReadmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you need to read the story.
> 
> It is men who are being excluded, not non-Muslims.
> 
> This is an issue of the greater modesty of Muslims.
> 
> We've grown accustomed to the twerking and the commercialization of sex.
> 
> There are those who aren't totally excited about that.  In fact, I've heard Christians say they, too, aren't thrilled with our nation's treatment of sexuality.
> 
> It seems more logical to me that Christians and Muslims would find common cause in moving our society in a direction of values that both these religions share - even if not to the same degree.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't have a problem with it had the YMCA not been a Christian based organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The YMCA must require that men be allowed to watch women swim?
> 
> I really don't see your argument here.
Click to expand...


Yes.  It is the job of anyone with the capacity to provide a place for potential rapists to get their jollies without the available anonymity provided by less public forums.  Essentially, the more creepers strokin in the bleechers next to the olympic swimming pool where the little muslim girls are swimming, the less of these same creepers there'll be stalking the shadier and more obscure crosswalks adjacent to the local middle school.


----------



## High_Gravity

tinydancer said:


> I guess I just don't understand this.



No offense but I think you smoke too much ganja, just sayin.


----------



## GHook93

Coyote said:


> It's funny people hate it so much that there is some accommodation for Muslim women to swim.  Who does it hurt?


Anyone who wants to swim at the pool! 

Imagine if the KKK (which Islam is basically equivalent to) said to uphold their religious and spiritual beliefs they don't want any N####RS, Wetbacks, Kikes or Slant-Eyes swimming in their pool while their white women take swim lessons! Toss that argument back at you, who does it really hurt? Are you going to take your same Neville Chamberlian pussy liberal stance? Didn't think so!



Coyote said:


> Many traditional Muslim women never learn to swim, or have enough oppertunity to get healthy excersize.


Not in Western society you lying cock sucker. I always see hijab wearing women in clothed head to toe at the public pools, health club and on the jogging trails every day. So go take your useless argument and shove it!




Coyote said:


> Their traditions prevent them from doing it in sight of men.  Recently there was a horrible capsize of a boat carrying refugees/immigrants from a Muslim African country - many of them women and children.  Many of them drowned.  The women couldn't swim.


That is the ignorant cock-sucking muslims fault. Westerns shouldn't be punished to accommodate their bull shit!



Coyote said:


> Why is this such a bad thing?  It's not Sharia.  We've always had segments of time for just certain groups to swim - teens, elderly, women.  Any women can participate - not just Muslims.  Why make it so difficult for Muslim women to enjoy swimming?


Fine let them discriminate, but then when Christian and Jews swim at the pool, those towel headed camel fuckers better stay home. Would you say that is a bad thing also?

Muslims always cry about discrimination and other bullshit, yet they discriminate against everyone and are hypocritical assholes. 

Again radical Islam isn't the problem, Islam itself is the problem!


----------



## High_Gravity

GHook93 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny people hate it so much that there is some accommodation for Muslim women to swim.  Who does it hurt?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who wants to swim at the pool!
> 
> Imagine if the KKK (which Islam is basically equivalent to) said to uphold their religious and spiritual beliefs they don't want any N####RS, Wetbacks, Kikes or Slant-Eyes swimming in their pool while their white women take swim lessons! Toss that argument back at you, who does it really hurt? Are you going to take your same Neville Chamberlian pussy liberal stance? Didn't think so!
Click to expand...


Thats what I was thinking about too.


----------



## Coyote

GHook93 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny people hate it so much that there is some accommodation for Muslim women to swim.  Who does it hurt?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who wants to swim at the pool!
Click to expand...


But it doesn't - any females can swim.  Not just Muslims.



> Imagine if the KKK (which Islam is basically equivalent to) said to uphold their religious and spiritual beliefs they don't want any N####RS, Wetbacks, Kikes or Slant-Eyes swimming in their pool while their white women take swim lessons! Toss that argument back at you, who does it really hurt? Are you going to take your same Neville Chamberlian pussy liberal stance? Didn't think so!



*The only segregation is male/female*, so you are really stretching it to try and say it's discrimminatory.  If you go that route, then you need to force private groups to cease having divisions based on gender and age as well - and remember, this is a private group.  Now, go further - what about other religious who have similar prohibitions on modesty - should they too be prevented from having a gender-only hour of swimming in a private institution?  At what point does dividing become discrimmination GHook?   



> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many traditional Muslim women never learn to swim, or have enough oppertunity to get healthy excersize.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in Western society you lying cock sucker. I always see hijab wearing women in clothed head to toe at the public pools, health club and on the jogging trails every day. So go take your useless argument and shove it!
Click to expand...


As usual, you eloquence brings me to my knees, but not to suck any male appendages, just because I can't stop laughing.  Now that we're past that, consider your statement and ask yourself how difficult it must be for these women to exercise or even swim in a pool in full garb and why do you feel the need to force them to do that rather than grant an hour a week for a women-only swim in a private institution?  How about jogging in 90 degree heat?  And, regardless of what you "see" (and I find your claim that you "always" see fully garbed Muslim women swimming debatable becuase that garb would drown them - floating or wading is more likely and that is not much excersize) - most Muslim women never learn to swim.  Drowning is listed as a major cause of death amongst Muslim immigrant women.

This article makes some good points on the issue.  Lawsuits HAVE been brought but not because of religious discrimminiation - because there is no religious discrimmination, but rather gender discrimmination.  It makes some good points and there are some differences, for example the program in question in this article was not privately funded - unlike the YMCA in the OP.  One point is the statement that when you seperate men and women, it tends to make women less of a person.  This is certainly true in many countries that publically restrict and seperate women from men, and restrict women's access to equal education and public spaces.   That is not the case in the US where we have strict laws preventing this.  However we still have private girls only schools, for example and gender-segrated locker rooms and PE classes for example. 

Entire article:  Women-only swim in Tukwila faces discrimination complaints | Seattle Globalist
_



			On November 7th those sentiments were taken further when Tukwila couple Robert and Christine Neuffer filed a formal complaint with the Washington Human Rights Commission citing gender-based discrimination, based on Robert being denied entry into the pool during the women-only swim hours.

*When you separate males and females, it is usually designed to make females less of a person,* said Neuffer, who hopes that the program will return to being privately funded. This whole concept here is that when women and men are separated, we lose touch with each other, eventually. It is bad for the women, and then it is bad for the men.

Neuffer points to the religious nature of the program, but says hes not against Islam.

Im a first amendment nut, he asserted, but I do not have to defend beliefs that make women less than human beings. Ive seen it abroad, and I dont want it here.

*We had people from the Ethiopian community, the Latino community, even the Caucasian community coming to swim with us There are a lot of women who want this service, said Jamila reflecting on the controversy. Its not like we are trying to bring Sharia law into a secular society.*

If it goes through, the Neuffers claim will be unprecedented. According to Brian Snure, a lawyer for the Tukwila Metropolitan Park District, *there is no previous example of any such human rights complaint around gender-specific programs in public pools across the country.* A case in Pennsylvania concerning a private womens only gym was overturned, on the basis that men and women have differences that might require different health facilities.

Indeed, Kindell *didnt seem concerned about restricting certain people from a class, since it mirrored many of the other specific classes offered for teens, or families. A mens-only swim is currently also offered, though less attended.*

When asked about the concerns regarding gender-specific swim, Faisa and Jamila said they couldnt understand the opposition.

*Its nonsensical, said Faisa. It makes you think, this is more than about just a gender-specific swim.*

The move toward gender-specific swim hours, and exercise in general, is hardly unique to Muslims  or Tukwila. Similar programs are already popular in places in Seattle where Somali refugee populations live, though some have had to navigate anti-discrimination policies that require that all gender-specific programs be private rentals.

Last March, Childrens Hospital released a statement advocating for gender-specific swims, *citing drowning as a leading cause of death in ethnic communitie*s.

Outgoing Mayor Mike McGinn recently announced that the City of Seattle will begin offering gender-specific swim opportunities at four public swimming pools to serve women who, because of cultural, personal or religious reasons, cannot swim in a co-ed environment. Similar programs have been established in pools across the country.

*In Seward Park, women from the Orthodox Jewish community organized to request a similar swim at the Rainier Beach pool, which for a time was privately funded. During construction of the new pool and community center in 2010, however, focus groups conducted by the City of Seattle brought in a unanimous sentiment from the Jewish, African-American, Asian, and Latino communities to offer regular programming for gender-specific swim, according to Sarah Gortler, a Seward Park resident.
*...
		
Click to expand...

_


> [/INDENT]
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Their traditions prevent them from doing it in sight of men.  Recently there was a horrible capsize of a boat carrying refugees/immigrants from a Muslim African country - many of them women and children.  Many of them drowned.  The women couldn't swim.
> 
> 
> 
> That is the ignorant cock-sucking muslims fault. Westerns shouldn't be punished to accommodate their bull shit!
Click to expand...


Who's really being punished - men who like to gawk at women?  These programs seem to be popular among women.  



> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this such a bad thing?  It's not Sharia.  We've always had segments of time for just certain groups to swim - teens, elderly, women.  Any women can participate - not just Muslims.  Why make it so difficult for Muslim women to enjoy swimming?
> 
> 
> 
> Fine let them discriminate, but then when Christian and Jews swim at the pool, those towel headed camel fuckers better stay home. Would you say that is a bad thing also?
Click to expand...


Well, let's stick to facts - Christian and Jewish women can swim in a gender specific swim hour, just as Muslims can.  Are you suggesting segretating this by religion?



> Muslims always cry about discrimination and other bullshit, yet they discriminate against everyone and are hypocritical assholes.
> 
> Again radical Islam isn't the problem, Islam itself is the problem!



What happens in other countries, is not our problem. We're the US.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> GHook93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny people hate it so much that there is some accommodation for Muslim women to swim.  Who does it hurt?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who wants to swim at the pool!
> 
> Imagine if the KKK (which Islam is basically equivalent to) said to uphold their religious and spiritual beliefs they don't want any N####RS, Wetbacks, Kikes or Slant-Eyes swimming in their pool while their white women take swim lessons! Toss that argument back at you, who does it really hurt? Are you going to take your same Neville Chamberlian pussy liberal stance? Didn't think so!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats what I was thinking about too.
Click to expand...


It's NOT legal to turn someone away "because they're black" or "because they're Jewish". That's clearly against the law. 

In the case of the Muslim swim class, the only rule is that you "can't be a man in the pool area" at the time of the class. Christian women, Hindu women, Jewish women, black women, gay women, etc, are all allowed to participate if they want to. I've seen no evidence showing that this YMCA turned a woman away "because she's likely a Christian or black". There is no race discrimination here, which is (again) strictly prohibited.

The worst you could possibly call this is gender discrimination (because there's no men allowed). If you're upset about that then perhaps we can have a conversation about it.


----------



## Katzndogz

You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.

I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.


----------



## Sunni Man

Katzndogz said:


> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.


Simple answer, the muslim women and the orthodox jewish women will quit attending the class.    ...


----------



## Katzndogz

Sunni Man said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.
> 
> 
> 
> Simple answer, the muslim women and the orthodox jewish women will quit attending the class.    ...
Click to expand...


As it should be.


----------



## Coyote

Katzndogz said:


> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.


How transgendered people will fit in is an issue that has yet to be crossed in many aspects of our culture - this situation is the least of it.


----------



## Coyote

Katzndogz said:


> *You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.*
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.



So?


----------



## KevinWestern

Katzndogz said:


> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.



Again, if you're upset about gender discrimination than you should start another thread. I can understand that angle, and think it may draw some interesting debate. 

However, the thread is about "Fox saying Sharia Law is Taking over because of a Women's Swim Class" (LOL - laughing at Fox, not you).


----------



## Roudy

GHook93 said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny people hate it so much that there is some accommodation for Muslim women to swim.  Who does it hurt?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who wants to swim at the pool!
> 
> Imagine if the KKK (which Islam is basically equivalent to) said to uphold their religious and spiritual beliefs they don't want any N####RS, Wetbacks, Kikes or Slant-Eyes swimming in their pool while their white women take swim lessons! Toss that argument back at you, who does it really hurt? Are you going to take your same Neville Chamberlian pussy liberal stance? Didn't think so!
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many traditional Muslim women never learn to swim, or have enough oppertunity to get healthy excersize.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not in Western society you lying cock sucker. I always see hijab wearing women in clothed head to toe at the public pools, health club and on the jogging trails every day. So go take your useless argument and shove it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Their traditions prevent them from doing it in sight of men.  Recently there was a horrible capsize of a boat carrying refugees/immigrants from a Muslim African country - many of them women and children.  Many of them drowned.  The women couldn't swim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is the ignorant cock-sucking muslims fault. Westerns shouldn't be punished to accommodate their bull shit!
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this such a bad thing?  It's not Sharia.  We've always had segments of time for just certain groups to swim - teens, elderly, women.  Any women can participate - not just Muslims.  Why make it so difficult for Muslim women to enjoy swimming?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fine let them discriminate, but then when Christian and Jews swim at the pool, those towel headed camel fuckers better stay home. Would you say that is a bad thing also?
> 
> Muslims always cry about discrimination and other bullshit, yet they discriminate against everyone and are hypocritical assholes.
> 
> Again radical Islam isn't the problem, Islam itself is the problem!
Click to expand...


----------



## Dot Com

Is Fox & Friends still pushing this?  Gov Christie already called these people who perpetuate this fear & hate as "crazies"  We have more serious issues to address.


----------



## Roudy

Katzndogz said:


> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.


Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
Click to expand...


This is happening more and more, didn't Muslims get their own prayer room in Catholic schools too?


----------



## High_Gravity

I've been to the YMCA before, what are they worried about exactly? its mostly families swimming with their kids in that pool, its not exactly spring break with college females in dental floss bikinis doing keg stands.


----------



## Sunni Man

Roudy said:


> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.


The YMCA has been open to individuals and families of all races and religions for decades.

Besides Roudy, why should a Juden like you care about what a Christian organization does??   ...


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
Click to expand...


I'm assuming that you've been extremely upset for years about the YMCA freely allowing women, kids, and older people into their facilities - right? 

Are you saying that the organization has NOT shifted into a more of a "general" facility for all people throughout the years, and that every time a 4 year old kid or 90 year old man was allowed to set foot in a YMCA (over the past 30 years) someone should have been fired?

Or are you just inconsistently focusing your rage to just this one single, recent example?

I'm thinking you're just being extremely inconsistent.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
Click to expand...


So Jewish women shouldn't be allowed to swim there either?


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that you've been extremely upset for years about the YMCA freely allowing women, kids, and older people into their facilities - right?
> 
> Are you saying that the organization has NOT shifted into a more of a "general" facility for all people throughout the years, and that every time a 4 year old kid or 90 year old man was allowed to set foot in a YMCA (over the past 30 years) someone should have been fired?
> 
> Or are you just inconsistently focusing your rage to just this one single, recent example?
> 
> I'm thinking you're just being extremely inconsistent.
Click to expand...

I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community.  I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.  

But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Jewish women shouldn't be allowed to swim there either?
Click to expand...

Wow, you are really dumb or playing dumb.  Jewish men and women, as well as Muslim men and women current attend the Y and use it's various family programs in droves.  But there is no Jewish Law Swimming for women only at the Y!  Doy!


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that you've been extremely upset for years about the YMCA freely allowing women, kids, and older people into their facilities - right?
> 
> Are you saying that the organization has NOT shifted into a more of a "general" facility for all people throughout the years, and that every time a 4 year old kid or 90 year old man was allowed to set foot in a YMCA (over the past 30 years) someone should have been fired?
> 
> Or are you just inconsistently focusing your rage to just this one single, recent example?
> 
> I'm thinking you're just being extremely inconsistent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community.  I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


Why can't they just swim with everyone else? I have to ask again, I have been to the YMCA and was a member for many years in Virginia, all I ever saw at the pool were families with their kids, this is not a pool during Mardi Gras with naked women splashing around and men doing keg stands. Its not like the YMCA pool is chalk full of horny men in speedos and young college women in dental floss bikinis.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> I've been to the YMCA before, what are they worried about exactly? its mostly families swimming with their kids in that pool, its not exactly spring break with college females in dental floss bikinis doing keg stands.


Islam will always find a way to take away the fun of everything, while to impose itself and taking away basic rights.


----------



## Roudy

Sunni Man said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
> 
> 
> 
> The YMCA has been open to individuals and families of all races and religions for decades.
> 
> Besides Roudy, why should a Juden like you care about what a Christian organization does??   ...
Click to expand...

Yeah, and Moooslim like you want to close it to other races, genders, and families because of your shit Shariah law.  Like I said before, take your Shariah shit somewhere else.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that men aren't just prohibited from being in the class but being at the pool for any reason.
> 
> I want to see what happens when a transgendered boy wants to take the girl's swim class.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that you've been extremely upset for years about the YMCA freely allowing women, kids, and older people into their facilities - right?
> 
> Are you saying that the organization has NOT shifted into a more of a "general" facility for all people throughout the years, and that every time a 4 year old kid or 90 year old man was allowed to set foot in a YMCA (over the past 30 years) someone should have been fired?
> 
> Or are you just inconsistently focusing your rage to just this one single, recent example?
> 
> I'm thinking you're just being extremely inconsistent.
Click to expand...

I think you have reading comprehension problems or need to have your head examined.  Shariah Swimming for Women Only, does NOT fall within the YMCA's mission statement, and whoever permitted this, needs to have their ass kicked out on the sidewalk:

Washington County Indiana Family YMCA!

YMCA MISSION, CORE VALUES AND AREA OF FOCUS
YMCA Mission:

"To put *Christian* principles into practice through programs that help healthy spirit, mind and body for all."

Core Values:

Caring: to demonstrate a sincere concern for others, for their needs and well-being. Related values: compassion, forgiveness, generosity, and kindness.

Honesty: to tell the truth, to demonstrate reliability and trustworthiness through actions that are in keeping with my stated positions and beliefs. Related values: integrity and fairness.

Respect: to treat others as I would want them to treat me, to value the worth of every person, including myself. Related values: acceptance, empathy, self-respect and tolerance.

Responsibility: to do what is right--what I ought to do, to be accountable for my choices of behavior and actions and my promises. Related values: commitment, courage, good health, service and citizenship.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to the YMCA before, what are they worried about exactly? its mostly families swimming with their kids in that pool, its not exactly spring break with college females in dental floss bikinis doing keg stands.
> 
> 
> 
> Islam will always find a way to take away the fun of everything, while to impose itself and taking away basic rights.
Click to expand...


And everyone is just standing around? I guess I should go brush up on my Arabic. Kayf halik habibi?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that you've been extremely upset for years about the YMCA freely allowing women, kids, and older people into their facilities - right?
> 
> Are you saying that the organization has NOT shifted into a more of a "general" facility for all people throughout the years, and that every time a 4 year old kid or 90 year old man was allowed to set foot in a YMCA (over the past 30 years) someone should have been fired?
> 
> Or are you just inconsistently focusing your rage to just this one single, recent example?
> 
> I'm thinking you're just being extremely inconsistent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community. * I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit*.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...*a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.  *
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


Except that is not true.

No one is "pulling" any bullshit.  The program in the OP is a cooperative program between the Y and the local police department.  The Y is a private group, and whatever their name meant originally "Christian Men" - it is no longer just that.  In putting together this program, they are doing exactly what their organizational aims are, as you put it:  _to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community._ 

I doubt they are "splashing around" in Muslim clothes - in fact, I doubt you can swim in that garb.  Having a female only (not Muslim only) swim hour allows them to dress more appropriate to the venue.  And frankly, a program that gives these women, or Orthodox Jewish women - or any women who don't like to bare themselves in front of men - a skill that is confidence building and life saving and fun certainly seems to be what the Y is about.


----------



## Indofred

Indofred said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realise this story was a lie?
> They made it up and only idiots believe it.
Click to expand...


One poster, in a rep comment, suggested I should go and suck Mohammad dick, further suggesting I'm a faggot!".
I know the poster concerned is gay but he shouldn't assume everyone else is.


----------



## High_Gravity

How much longer until the YMCA alters their hours to accomodate Ramadan?


----------



## WillReadmore

Roudy said:


> I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.



So, you think it's a Christian imperative that men watch women swim?


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that you've been extremely upset for years about the YMCA freely allowing women, kids, and older people into their facilities - right?
> 
> Are you saying that the organization has NOT shifted into a more of a "general" facility for all people throughout the years, and that every time a 4 year old kid or 90 year old man was allowed to set foot in a YMCA (over the past 30 years) someone should have been fired?
> 
> Or are you just inconsistently focusing your rage to just this one single, recent example?
> 
> I'm thinking you're just being extremely inconsistent.
> 
> 
> 
> I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community. * I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit*.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...*a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.  *
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except that is not true.
> 
> No one is "pulling" any bullshit.  The program in the OP is a cooperative program between the Y and the local police department.  The Y is a private group, and whatever their name meant originally "Christian Men" - it is no longer just that.  In putting together this program, they are doing exactly what their organizational aims are, as you put it:  _to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community._
> 
> I doubt they are "splashing around" in Muslim clothes - in fact, I doubt you can swim in that garb.  Having a female only (not Muslim only) swim hour allows them to dress more appropriate to the venue.  And frankly, a program that gives these women, or Orthodox Jewish women - or any women who don't like to bare themselves in front of men - a skill that is confidence building and life saving and fun certainly seems to be what the Y is about.
Click to expand...


They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.


----------



## WillReadmore

High_Gravity said:


> How much longer until the YMCA alters their hours to accomodate Ramadan?


You mean by allowing Muslims to NOT swim?


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community. * I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit*.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...*a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.  *
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except that is not true.
> 
> No one is "pulling" any bullshit.  The program in the OP is a cooperative program between the Y and the local police department.  The Y is a private group, and whatever their name meant originally "Christian Men" - it is no longer just that.  In putting together this program, they are doing exactly what their organizational aims are, as you put it:  _to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community._
> 
> I doubt they are "splashing around" in Muslim clothes - in fact, I doubt you can swim in that garb.  Having a female only (not Muslim only) swim hour allows them to dress more appropriate to the venue.  And frankly, a program that gives these women, or Orthodox Jewish women - or any women who don't like to bare themselves in front of men - a skill that is confidence building and life saving and fun certainly seems to be what the Y is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.
Click to expand...


Ya, but it's still a swimsuit - it's not a burkha or the full garments that they would have to wear in sight of men.  Seriously - is there a rational reason why it's a bad thing?

I used to go to a women-only gym.  I liked it.  Nice to be able to exercise without feeling self conscious or awkward.  Is that bad?


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> How much longer until the YMCA alters their hours to accomodate Ramadan?



Going from a women-only swim hour (which accomodates women of all faiths) to Ramadan-style hours is quite a leap don't you think?  Is there any evidence of this?


----------



## Indofred

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community. * I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit*.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...*a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.  *
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except that is not true.
> 
> No one is "pulling" any bullshit.  The program in the OP is a cooperative program between the Y and the local police department.  The Y is a private group, and whatever their name meant originally "Christian Men" - it is no longer just that.  In putting together this program, they are doing exactly what their organizational aims are, as you put it:  _to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community._
> 
> I doubt they are "splashing around" in Muslim clothes - in fact, I doubt you can swim in that garb.  Having a female only (not Muslim only) swim hour allows them to dress more appropriate to the venue.  And frankly, a program that gives these women, or Orthodox Jewish women - or any women who don't like to bare themselves in front of men - a skill that is confidence building and life saving and fun certainly seems to be what the Y is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.
Click to expand...


These are very common out here.
As a note, I have yet to see an advert for a women only swim class out here but there may well be some around.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.



But an Islamic swimsuit is not a requirement of the swim class.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Jewish women shouldn't be allowed to swim there either?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, you are really dumb or playing dumb.  Jewish men and women, as well as Muslim men and women current attend the Y and use it's various family programs in droves.  But there is no Jewish Law Swimming for women only at the Y!  Doy!
Click to expand...


Apparently you jumped into the thread without reading it through.

There is no Muslim "Law Swimming for women only at the Y" either.

If you read the article I linked to earlier in the thread (not that I would expect you too) - there are quite a number of Orthodox Jewish women, with similar religious standards of dress and gender segregation, that enjoy women-only excercise time at gyms and pools and if they represent a significant enough demographic in a neighborhood I don't see how it hurts for local facilities to provide an hour of woman-only activities.  It's segregation based on gender, not religion.  

If you have a problem with gender based segregation then you need to take a look at how it's applied across the countries and ask yourself why you're ok with it in those instances but not this.  If you have a problem with segregation of any type then why are you ok with segregation by age - seniors only or kids only?  Or how about special sessions for disabled kids and adults?


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming that you've been extremely upset for years about the YMCA freely allowing women, kids, and older people into their facilities - right?
> 
> Are you saying that the organization has NOT shifted into a more of a "general" facility for all people throughout the years, and that every time a 4 year old kid or 90 year old man was allowed to set foot in a YMCA (over the past 30 years) someone should have been fired?
> 
> Or are you just inconsistently focusing your rage to just this one single, recent example?
> 
> I'm thinking you're just being extremely inconsistent.
> 
> 
> 
> I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community. * I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit*.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...*a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.  *
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except that is not true.
> 
> No one is "pulling" any bullshit.  The program in the OP is a cooperative program between the Y and the local police department.  The Y is a private group, and whatever their name meant originally "Christian Men" - it is no longer just that.  In putting together this program, they are doing exactly what their organizational aims are, as you put it:  _to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community._
> 
> I doubt they are "splashing around" in Muslim clothes - in fact, I doubt you can swim in that garb.  Having a female only (not Muslim only) swim hour allows them to dress more appropriate to the venue.  And frankly, a program that gives these women, or Orthodox Jewish women - or any women who don't like to bare themselves in front of men - a skill that is confidence building and life saving and fun certainly seems to be what the Y is about.
Click to expand...

Are you an idiot?  What do you think Shariah Swimming means?  You are always spouting your total ignorance all over the place. Women cannot expose any part of their skin period.  So most of them show up with tight clothes, or Islamic swimming suits, which is basically the same.  

And yes, even though the Y is no longer pushing it's Christianity in people's faces, and many non Christians use their facilities, it is understood that it is still a Christian based organization, to promote values it considers consistent with Christianity, NOT Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Atheism, etc.  

And, it still does promote Christian values:

For Social Responsibility in Washington County Indiana

YMCA to hold prayer in the square:

During the month of November, the Washington County Family YMCA has been leading Washington County in A Salute to our Soldiers campaign to honor our local service members and their families; recognizing the many sacrifices they and their families make to secure the nation&#8217;s freedom.

"In November, we all are reminded of the many things we have to be thankful for," says Rosie Morehous, the Youth First Director organizing the event, &#8220;Our soldiers, past and present, have done so much to make our blessings possible, and we look forward to honoring that with our Prayer on the Square Meeting.&#8221;

The prayer on the Square will be held on Monday, November 25th, from 12:00-1:00pm. Special singing by David Brown, a Special address from Sid Dye, and Prayer led by Bob Holler will outline the service to thank our brave men and women. 

&#8220;I hope to see the entire community out to pray for the safety of our soldiers,&#8221; says Morehous. &#8220;We have such a wonderful sense of unity here in Washington County, and pulling together to show our support is something I look forward to being a part of on Monday.&#8221;

If you would like your active duty service member to be recognized by either prayer list, letters of support, thank you cards, or care packages please contact Rosie Morehous at the YMCA at 812-883-9622 or by email to  rosie@wcfymca.org.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except that is not true.
> 
> No one is "pulling" any bullshit.  The program in the OP is a cooperative program between the Y and the local police department.  The Y is a private group, and whatever their name meant originally "Christian Men" - it is no longer just that.  In putting together this program, they are doing exactly what their organizational aims are, as you put it:  _to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community._
> 
> I doubt they are "splashing around" in Muslim clothes - in fact, I doubt you can swim in that garb.  Having a female only (not Muslim only) swim hour allows them to dress more appropriate to the venue.  And frankly, a program that gives these women, or Orthodox Jewish women - or any women who don't like to bare themselves in front of men - a skill that is confidence building and life saving and fun certainly seems to be what the Y is about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, but it's still a swimsuit - it's not a burkha or the full garments that they would have to wear in sight of men.  Seriously - is there a rational reason why it's a bad thing?
> 
> I used to go to a women-only gym.  I liked it.  Nice to be able to exercise without feeling self conscious or awkward.  Is that bad?
Click to expand...

So, let's get this straight, you are for pushing this garbage at the Y, where people of all races and religions come.  Wow, such a women's right activist you are.  But then again, when it comes to defending Islam, you will step over anything and everything.  

What next?  Shariah Workouts in headscarfs and burka's at the Y, no men allowed?  You truly make me vomit.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community.  I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.




Roudy - Is the YMCA a business that you run? Are you upset the YMCA made a business decision about the assets they own and operate? Are you suggesting that the business doesn't have a right to try and attract Muslim swimmers (and their money - yes they are paying customers) from this one hour class and build a positive, inclusive reputation within the community? Is that what you're trying to argue? 

Maybe because ROUDY is afraid of a "muslim takeover" all private businesses in the US must abide by what HE THINKS they should do. 

Here's some advice; go buy a pool and sell some memberships to it. Then you'll be able to decide whether or not there will be muslim swim hour. Plain and simple. Until then, quit bitchin'.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community. * I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit*.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...*a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.  *
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except that is not true.
> 
> No one is "pulling" any bullshit.  The program in the OP is a cooperative program between the Y and the local police department.  The Y is a private group, and whatever their name meant originally "Christian Men" - it is no longer just that.  In putting together this program, they are doing exactly what their organizational aims are, as you put it:  _to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community._
> 
> I doubt they are "splashing around" in Muslim clothes - in fact, I doubt you can swim in that garb.  Having a female only (not Muslim only) swim hour allows them to dress more appropriate to the venue.  And frankly, a program that gives these women, or Orthodox Jewish women - or any women who don't like to bare themselves in front of men - a skill that is confidence building and life saving and fun certainly seems to be what the Y is about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Are you an idiot?  What do you think Shariah Swimming means?  You are always spouting your total ignorance all over the place. Women cannot expose any part of their skin period.  So most of them show up with tight clothes, or Islamic swimming suits, which is basically the same.
Click to expand...


Where in the OP is it referred to as "Shariah Swimming"?  Article after article refers to "women only" swim periods.

Where does it say women can't expose any part of their skin period or must where certain clothes?

Here is another article, with some video and it's clear that a wide range of dress codes apply: http://www.kpbs.org/news/2012/jun/26/ymca-offers-women-only-swim-hours-muslim-women-and/



> And yes, even though the Y is no longer pushing it's Christianity in people's faces, and many non Christians use their facilities, it is understood that it is still a Christian based organization*, to promote values it considers consistent with Christianity,* NOT Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Atheism, etc.
> 
> And, it still does promote Christian values:
> 
> For Social Responsibility in Washington County Indiana
> 
> YMCA to hold prayer in the square:
> 
> During the month of November, the Washington County Family YMCA has been leading Washington County in A Salute to our Soldiers campaign to honor our local service members and their families; recognizing the many sacrifices they and their families make to secure the nations freedom.
> 
> "In November, we all are reminded of the many things we have to be thankful for," says Rosie Morehous, the Youth First Director organizing the event, Our soldiers, past and present, have done so much to make our blessings possible, and we look forward to honoring that with our Prayer on the Square Meeting.
> 
> The prayer on the Square will be held on Monday, November 25th, from 12:00-1:00pm. Special singing by David Brown, a Special address from Sid Dye, and Prayer led by Bob Holler will outline the service to thank our brave men and women.
> 
> I hope to see the entire community out to pray for the safety of our soldiers, says Morehous. We have such a wonderful sense of unity here in Washington County, and pulling together to show our support is something I look forward to being a part of on Monday.
> 
> If you would like your active duty service member to be recognized by either prayer list, letters of support, thank you cards, or care packages please contact Rosie Morehous at the YMCA at 812-883-9622 or by email to  rosie@wcfymca.org.



Exactly - and that is what it is doing in having these swim periods for women (as I already pointed out to you).  However it is not an organization limited anymore to just Christians and men.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Jewish women shouldn't be allowed to swim there either?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, you are really dumb or playing dumb.  Jewish men and women, as well as Muslim men and women current attend the Y and use it's various family programs in droves.  But there is no Jewish Law Swimming for women only at the Y!  Doy!
Click to expand...


There is no MUSLIM ONLY swimming class. Only conditions designed to attract Muslim patrons for one hour out of the week (at one facility of 2,600). Jewish, Christian, black, white, gay women can all attend if they want to swim in a male-less space for 1 hour.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> How much longer until the YMCA alters their hours to accomodate Ramadan?



If the owners of the YMCA decide that altering the hours of operation to accommodate Ramadan is a good decision for the organization and its business partners, it's their right to do so. 

Heck, a business can operate 1 hour a week if it wants. Chick fil As are closed on Sunday, while McDonalds, Burger King, and Long John Silver's remain open. It's up to the business to decide - right? 

There is absolutely no sliver of fact - to any stretch of the imagination - that the YMCA is seriously considering "altering its hours to accommodate Ramadan" (and you know this). But I bet you money they're altering their hours for Christmas 

So quit whinin' dude, it's unbecoming.


----------



## WillReadmore

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much longer until the YMCA alters their hours to accomodate Ramadan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going from a women-only swim hour (which accomodates women of all faiths) to Ramadan-style hours is quite a leap don't you think?  Is there any evidence of this?
Click to expand...

No.  I have NO idea what you're worried about.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya, but it's still a swimsuit - it's not a burkha or the full garments that they would have to wear in sight of men.  Seriously - is there a rational reason why it's a bad thing?
> 
> I used to go to a women-only gym.  I liked it.  Nice to be able to exercise without feeling self conscious or awkward.  Is that bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, let's get this straight, you are for pushing this garbage at the Y, where people of all races and religions come.
Click to expand...


Roudy, do you even know how to "get this straight"?  Seriously?

My position is simple, but you are incapable of grasping it.
1.  I have no problem with a women-only (or men-only) swim hour - especially at a private facility.
2.  People can wear what ever they want swimming as long as it doesn't effect safety.



> Wow, such a women's right activist you are.  But then again, when it comes to defending Islam, you will step over anything and everything.



Sorry but, I fail to understand how allowing women to have a free choice in what they choose to wear is somehow against women's rights.



> What next?  Shariah Workouts in headscarfs and burka's at the Y, no men allowed?  You truly make me vomit.



They can wear what they want when they work out and, to once again hit on the pertinant point - it's not "Shariah" it's women only (or men only or kids only or...you get the picture).

Please clean up your vomit.


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But an Islamic swimsuit is not a requirement of the swim class.
Click to expand...


Than whats the point?


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> How much longer until the YMCA alters their hours to accomodate Ramadan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Going from a women-only swim hour (which accomodates women of all faiths) to Ramadan-style hours is quite a leap don't you think?  Is there any evidence of this?
Click to expand...


Why not though? their already closing the pool down for them, why not a Ramadan schedule?


----------



## Coyote

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Jewish women shouldn't be allowed to swim there either?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you are really dumb or playing dumb.  Jewish men and women, as well as Muslim men and women current attend the Y and use it's various family programs in droves.  But there is no Jewish Law Swimming for women only at the Y!  Doy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *There is no MUSLIM ONLY swimming class.* Only conditions designed to attract Muslim patrons for one hour out of the week (at one facility of 2,600). Jewish, Christian, black, white, gay women can all attend if they want to swim in a male-less space for 1 hour.
Click to expand...


They seem to keep missing that point, over and over and over...


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except that is not true.
> 
> No one is "pulling" any bullshit.  The program in the OP is a cooperative program between the Y and the local police department.  The Y is a private group, and whatever their name meant originally "Christian Men" - it is no longer just that.  In putting together this program, they are doing exactly what their organizational aims are, as you put it:  _to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community._
> 
> I doubt they are "splashing around" in Muslim clothes - in fact, I doubt you can swim in that garb.  Having a female only (not Muslim only) swim hour allows them to dress more appropriate to the venue.  And frankly, a program that gives these women, or Orthodox Jewish women - or any women who don't like to bare themselves in front of men - a skill that is confidence building and life saving and fun certainly seems to be what the Y is about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ya, but it's still a swimsuit - it's not a burkha or the full garments that they would have to wear in sight of men.  Seriously - is there a rational reason why it's a bad thing?
> 
> I used to go to a women-only gym.  I liked it.  Nice to be able to exercise without feeling self conscious or awkward.  Is that bad?
Click to expand...


Than why don't the Muslim females join a girls only gym?


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But an Islamic swimsuit is not a requirement of the swim class.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Than whats the point?
Click to expand...


My point is that any women can choose to participate in the class and wear any suit they want. The time isn't strictly reserved for "muslims only". The only rule is that you "can't be a man" and like I said if you want to protest the unfairness of the policy with regards to gender - fine - that's a different discussion. 

But it shouldn't be framed up as a "Muslim takeover", lol.


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> But an Islamic swimsuit is not a requirement of the swim class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Than whats the point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My point is that any women can choose to participate in the class and wear any suit they want. The time isn't strictly reserved for "muslims only". The only rule is that you "can't be a man" and like I said if you want to protest the unfairness of the policy with regards to gender - fine - that's a different discussion.
> 
> But it shouldn't be framed up as a "Muslim takeover", lol.
Click to expand...


If this is the case why not just swim with everyone else?


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> Than why don't the Muslim females join a girls only gym?



They can. But how many "female only" gyms + pools do you know of? How many are in St. Paul? 

Secondly, are you saying YMCA doesn't have the right to attract Muslim swimmers to earn additional income? Aren't they a business, lol? 

My question is (in response to yours) why can't a business use a tactic to attract a certain type of customer?


----------



## Katzndogz

They probably thought the same thing in London, Paris, Oslo, Malmo and Stockholm too.  What's an hour a week going to hurt?


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> If this is the case why not just swim with everyone else?



Do you ask "why do kids want toys" after a business builds a bunch of action figures to meet the demand of the Christmas season? 

There's a group (muslim women) that has certain needs/likes and the YMCA decided it'd be advantageous to craft a class to attract them so they could earn more income. 

Simple as that...


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ya, but it's still a swimsuit - it's not a burkha or the full garments that they would have to wear in sight of men.  Seriously - is there a rational reason why it's a bad thing?
> 
> I used to go to a women-only gym.  I liked it.  Nice to be able to exercise without feeling self conscious or awkward.  Is that bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Than why don't the Muslim females join a girls only gym?
Click to expand...


I imagine some do, but it all depends on what's available in the community and of course the cost - gyms are much more expensive then the Y and they probably don't cater to children.


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Than why don't the Muslim females join a girls only gym?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They can. But how many "female only" gyms + pools do you know of? How many are in St. Paul?
> 
> Secondly, are you saying YMCA doesn't have the right to attract Muslim swimmers to earn additional income? Aren't they a business, lol?
> 
> My question is (in response to yours) why can't a business use a tactic to attract a certain type of customer?
Click to expand...


I'm just struggling with the concept why they need the whole pool to themselves, why can't they just swim with everyone else? now automatically every male in the pool is a pervert and peeping tom? its not like we're asking them shower with men.


----------



## KevinWestern

Katzndogz said:


> They probably thought the same thing in London, Paris, Oslo, Malmo and Stockholm too.  What's an hour a week going to hurt?



Apparently it angers you when businesses try to attract paying customers. That's a silly stance, Katz.


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Than why don't the Muslim females join a girls only gym?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They can. But how many "female only" gyms + pools do you know of? How many are in St. Paul?
> 
> Secondly, are you saying YMCA doesn't have the right to attract Muslim swimmers to earn additional income? Aren't they a business, lol?
> 
> My question is (in response to yours) why can't a business use a tactic to attract a certain type of customer?
Click to expand...


I'm not familiar with the Minnesota area at all, so I don't know how many women only gyms are there. I'm just struggling with the concept of why everyone has to leave the pool when they want to swim.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> I'm just struggling with the concept why they need the whole pool to themselves, why can't they just swim with everyone else? now automatically every male in the pool is a pervert and peeping tom? its not like we're asking them shower with men.



Hey, that's a whole different debate, and won't fault you for that view. 

Quite frankly I have no idea why Catholics believe they are drinking the actual "blood of Jesus" and the actual "body of Jesus" at every mass, or why Jewish people will only eat food prepared in a very specific way, or why companies PAY rabbis to come to their factories for blessings so that they can obtain a Kosher stamp. Those things dont make sense to me either. People are weird and have weird customs.

If a company chooses to cater to these customs to attract more customers  thats their choice, right? Company A can choose to be Kosher or they can choose not to be Kosher; its entirely up to them.

What I can't understand though is why you folks are faulting a business for using tactics to attract customers.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Jewish women shouldn't be allowed to swim there either?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you are really dumb or playing dumb.  Jewish men and women, as well as Muslim men and women current attend the Y and use it's various family programs in droves.  But there is no Jewish Law Swimming for women only at the Y!  Doy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently you jumped into the thread without reading it through.
> 
> There is no Muslim "Law Swimming for women only at the Y" either.
> 
> If you read the article I linked to earlier in the thread (not that I would expect you too) - there are quite a number of Orthodox Jewish women, with similar religious standards of dress and gender segregation, that enjoy women-only excercise time at gyms and pools and if they represent a significant enough demographic in a neighborhood I don't see how it hurts for local facilities to provide an hour of woman-only activities.  It's segregation based on gender, not religion.
> 
> If you have a problem with gender based segregation then you need to take a look at how it's applied across the countries and ask yourself why you're ok with it in those instances but not this.  If you have a problem with segregation of any type then why are you ok with segregation by age - seniors only or kids only?  Or how about special sessions for disabled kids and adults?
Click to expand...

Yeah, but they're not enjoying Jewish orthodox women's swimming at a Y pool, and forcing the establishment and it's members to follow or have to deal with their religious or cultural laws.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community.  I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy - Is the YMCA a business that you run? Are you upset the YMCA made a business decision about the assets they own and operate? Are you suggesting that the business doesn't have a right to try and attract Muslim swimmers (and their money - yes they are paying customers) from this one hour class and build a positive, inclusive reputation within the community? Is that what you're trying to argue?
> 
> Maybe because ROUDY is afraid of a "muslim takeover" all private businesses in the US must abide by what HE THINKS they should do.
> 
> Here's some advice; go buy a pool and sell some memberships to it. Then you'll be able to decide whether or not there will be muslim swim hour. Plain and simple. Until then, quit bitchin'.
Click to expand...

I am not afraid of anything.  Muslims and Jews do currently enjoy many activities the Y offers, but this is the first time I've heard of Shariah swimming because a bunch of backwards ass Muslims with a 7th century mindset refuse to assimilate.  They want to learn swimming at the Y?  It's got to include men, and the pool has to be open to everybody.  They can close certain "lanes" for the swimming class.  If they don't like men walking around in shorts or swimming speedos, TOUGH SHIT.  Find another place to learn swimming.

  In the Y Basketball league, there are certain rules for the uniforms, top and bottom have to be same color, no bracelets or necklaces, shirts tucked in.  

Like I said, somebody in that Y needs to get his ass thrown out.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Than why don't the Muslim females join a girls only gym?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They can. But how many "female only" gyms + pools do you know of? How many are in St. Paul?
> 
> Secondly, are you saying YMCA doesn't have the right to attract Muslim swimmers to earn additional income? Aren't they a business, lol?
> 
> My question is (in response to yours) why can't a business use a tactic to attract a certain type of customer?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with the Minnesota area at all, so I don't know how many women only gyms are there. I'm just struggling with the concept of why everyone has to leave the pool when they want to swim.
Click to expand...

Because if the Muslim husbands or fathers saw men walking around in "half naked" in swim shorts or speedos, and God forbid one of the males saw their "female properties" bodies underneath that Islamic swim suit, they might freak out and try to kill somebody.  I'm not kidding.


----------



## Sunni Man

Katzndogz said:


> They probably thought the same thing in London, Paris, Oslo, Malmo and Stockholm too.  What's an hour a week going to hurt?


Paranoid much??   ...


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> They can. But how many "female only" gyms + pools do you know of? How many are in St. Paul?
> 
> Secondly, are you saying YMCA doesn't have the right to attract Muslim swimmers to earn additional income? Aren't they a business, lol?
> 
> My question is (in response to yours) why can't a business use a tactic to attract a certain type of customer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with the Minnesota area at all, so I don't know how many women only gyms are there. I'm just struggling with the concept of why everyone has to leave the pool when they want to swim.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Because if the Muslim husbands or fathers saw men walking around in "half naked" in swim shorts or speedos, and God forbid one of the males saw their "female properties" bodies underneath that Islamic swim suit, they might freak out and try to kill somebody.  I'm not kidding.
Click to expand...


Ah so the Muslim fathers and husbands are allowed in the pool, but we are not?


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Yeah, but they're not enjoying Jewish orthodox women's swimming at a Y pool, and forcing the establishment and it's members to follow or have to deal with their religious or cultural laws.



Oh man, what if you're a Christian and want to use the YMCA facility at the same time it's hosting a Bat Mitzvah?!!!

Berkshire Outdoor Center | B'nai Mitzvah 

What discrimination!

People should be able to use private facilities WHENEVER they want, regardless of what the facility owners have scheduled.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you are really dumb or playing dumb.  Jewish men and women, as well as Muslim men and women current attend the Y and use it's various family programs in droves.  But there is no Jewish Law Swimming for women only at the Y!  Doy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *There is no MUSLIM ONLY swimming class.* Only conditions designed to attract Muslim patrons for one hour out of the week (at one facility of 2,600). Jewish, Christian, black, white, gay women can all attend if they want to swim in a male-less space for 1 hour.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They seem to keep missing that point, over and over and over...
Click to expand...

No men allowed..Bunch of Muslim women flapping in Islamic Shariah swimsuits...no, it's not Muslim women only swimming.  Ha ha ha.  

They think everybody is as stupid, ignorant, and blind as they are.


----------



## WillReadmore

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have Islamic swimsuits that cover the body.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But an Islamic swimsuit is not a requirement of the swim class.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Than whats the point?
Click to expand...

The only change was that men aren't allowed in the pool area.

What kind of swim wear the women choose is up to them.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with the Minnesota area at all, so I don't know how many women only gyms are there. I'm just struggling with the concept of why everyone has to leave the pool when they want to swim.
> 
> 
> 
> Because if the Muslim husbands or fathers saw men walking around in "half naked" in swim shorts or speedos, and God forbid one of the males saw their "female properties" bodies underneath that Islamic swim suit, they might freak out and try to kill somebody.  I'm not kidding.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ah so the Muslim fathers and husbands are allowed in the pool, but we are not?
Click to expand...


No.  They aren't.  Unless it's during the men's only or open swim hours


----------



## Roudy

Sunni Man said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> They probably thought the same thing in London, Paris, Oslo, Malmo and Stockholm too.  What's an hour a week going to hurt?
> 
> 
> 
> Paranoid much??   ...
Click to expand...

Apparently people in Germany and England are now fighting against the Islamification of their societies:

This exact argument has gone to court and they've lost.  Muslims have also lost in France over with the no Burkas or Islamic headscarves in public.  

German Muslim girls must join mixed-sex swimming lessons

BERLIN, Sept 12:  A German court ruled on Wednesday that Muslim girls must take part in school swimming lessons with boys, in a landmark decision that touches on the sensitive relationship between religion and the state. The decision by Germany`s top court for public and administrative disputes signals that the state`s constitutional obligation to educate children can take precedence over customs and practices linked to an individual`s religious beliefs.


----------



## Katzndogz

The difference is the limitation is not merely applied to the class.   Men are excluded from the pool area for any reason.  It could be an hour's senior aqua aerobics class.  All seniors.  Does that mean no one under 60 can enter the room.  In England it started out with a muslim women's only class eventually leading to having all the windows blacked out.  

Why would muslim women have to be limited to only one hour a week?  Why can't they go any time they want?  Build a separate pool for men.  Maybe a separate building too.


----------



## High_Gravity

WillReadmore said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> But an Islamic swimsuit is not a requirement of the swim class.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Than whats the point?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The only change was that men aren't allowed in the pool area.
> 
> What kind of swim wear the women choose is up to them.
Click to expand...


So if a man is there with his daughter and she wants to swim, he's in the awkward position of just letting her go alone or they have to wait right?


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but they're not enjoying Jewish orthodox women's swimming at a Y pool, and forcing the establishment and it's members to follow or have to deal with their religious or cultural laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man, what if you're a Christian and want to use the YMCA facility at the same time it's hosting a Bat Mitzvah?!!!
> 
> Berkshire Outdoor Center | B'nai Mitzvah
> 
> What discrimination!
> 
> People should be able to use private facilities WHENEVER they want, regardless of what the facility owners have scheduled.
Click to expand...


During this Bar Mitzvah are they blocking non Jews from entering the facility?


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have enjoyed the YMCA's generosity, tolerance, programs, and it's facilities throughout many stages in my life.  However, it is understood that the YMCA started as a Christian based organization, and to promote values consistent with Christianity and reaching out and helping people in the community.  I would be just as upset if a bunch of orthodox Jews pulled the same bullshit.  It is an embarrassment and invites hatred and anger and the last thing the members want to see when they come to the Y...a bunch of Muslim women with their CLOTHES on, splashing around in the pool and no access to anybody else.
> 
> But then again, what else can we expect from an Islam defender?  Shariah law swimming at the Y?  No problemo.  Talk about "inconsistent". Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy - Is the YMCA a business that you run? Are you upset the YMCA made a business decision about the assets they own and operate? Are you suggesting that the business doesn't have a right to try and attract Muslim swimmers (and their money - yes they are paying customers) from this one hour class and build a positive, inclusive reputation within the community? Is that what you're trying to argue?
> 
> Maybe because ROUDY is afraid of a "muslim takeover" all private businesses in the US must abide by what HE THINKS they should do.
> 
> Here's some advice; go buy a pool and sell some memberships to it. Then you'll be able to decide whether or not there will be muslim swim hour. Plain and simple. Until then, quit bitchin'.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not afraid of anything.  Muslims and Jews do currently enjoy many activities the Y offers, but this is the first time I've heard of Shariah swimming because a bunch of backwards ass Muslims with a 7th century mindset refuse to assimilate.  They want to learn swimming at the Y?  It's got to include men, and the pool has to be open to everybody.  They can close certain "lanes" for the swimming class.  If they don't like men walking around in shorts or swimming speedos, TOUGH SHIT.  Find another place to learn swimming.
> 
> In the Y Basketball league, there are certain rules for the uniforms, top and bottom have to be same color, no bracelets or necklaces, shirts tucked in.
> 
> Like I said, somebody in that Y needs to get his ass thrown out.
Click to expand...


What? Are you saying that you and the general public DESERVE to use the assets of the YMCA whenever YOU please? 

If the YMCA decides to buy a pool and say it's "women only 24/7" they can do that. If the YMCA decides to buy a pool and say it's "open for one hour" they can do that. That is my point. 

This facility made a business decision designed to attract a certain sort of customer and you're whining about it. It's ridiculous. You don't own the pool, and that's that. No one deserves to use it; it's up to the owners who gets to use the pool...


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but they're not enjoying Jewish orthodox women's swimming at a Y pool, and forcing the establishment and it's members to follow or have to deal with their religious or cultural laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man, what if you're a Christian and want to use the YMCA facility at the same time it's hosting a Bat Mitzvah?!!!
> 
> Berkshire Outdoor Center | B'nai Mitzvah
> 
> What discrimination!
> 
> People should be able to use private facilities WHENEVER they want, regardless of what the facility owners have scheduled.
Click to expand...

That's like renting a hotel ballroom for a Jewish or Muslim wedding, idiot.  Again, no men allowed and Shariah attire IS NOT consistent with the YMCA's mission statement.  In fact, it is the OPPOSITE.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but they're not enjoying Jewish orthodox women's swimming at a Y pool, and forcing the establishment and it's members to follow or have to deal with their religious or cultural laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man, what if you're a Christian and want to use the YMCA facility at the same time it's hosting a Bat Mitzvah?!!!
> 
> Berkshire Outdoor Center | B'nai Mitzvah
> 
> What discrimination!
> 
> People should be able to use private facilities WHENEVER they want, regardless of what the facility owners have scheduled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> During this Bar Mitzvah are they blocking non Jews from entering the facility?
Click to expand...


Are they blocking non-muslim women from attending the "women's only" swim class?


----------



## Sunni Man

High_Gravity said:


> Ah so the Muslim fathers and husbands are allowed in the pool, but we are not?


No muslim men would be allowed in the pool area either.  

Just because they might be related to 1 of the girls/women. 

They are forbidden to be around the other girls/women in the pool.  .


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but they're not enjoying Jewish orthodox women's swimming at a Y pool, and forcing the establishment and it's members to follow or have to deal with their religious or cultural laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man, what if you're a Christian and want to use the YMCA facility at the same time it's hosting a Bat Mitzvah?!!!
> 
> Berkshire Outdoor Center | B'nai Mitzvah
> 
> What discrimination!
> 
> People should be able to use private facilities WHENEVER they want, regardless of what the facility owners have scheduled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's like renting a hotel ballroom for a Jewish or Muslim wedding, idiot.  Again, no men allowed and Shariah attire IS NOT consistent with the YMCA's mission statement.  In fact, it is the OPPOSITE.
Click to expand...


"Shariah attire" is not required.  How many times do you need to be told this?


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but they're not enjoying Jewish orthodox women's swimming at a Y pool, and forcing the establishment and it's members to follow or have to deal with their religious or cultural laws.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man, what if you're a Christian and want to use the YMCA facility at the same time it's hosting a Bat Mitzvah?!!!
> 
> Berkshire Outdoor Center | B'nai Mitzvah
> 
> What discrimination!
> 
> People should be able to use private facilities WHENEVER they want, regardless of what the facility owners have scheduled.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's like renting a hotel ballroom for a Jewish or Muslim wedding, idiot.  Again, no men allowed and Shariah attire IS NOT consistent with the YMCA's mission statement.  In fact, it is the OPPOSITE.
Click to expand...


Roudy - are you an owner of a YMCA? If the answer is no, then you have 0.00% authority on how they decided to conduct their business. It's not against the law to stray away from one's mission statement. 

0.00% authority. 

Go buy a YMCA if you don't like how that company is conducting itself.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Than whats the point?
> 
> 
> 
> The only change was that men aren't allowed in the pool area.
> 
> What kind of swim wear the women choose is up to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So if a man is there with his daughter and she wants to swim, he's in the awkward position of just letting her go alone or they have to wait right?
Click to expand...

With these people, if a non Muslim man is even able to see a Muslim woman with her swimming attire, that is enough for the husband or father to freak out and attack the poor man.  Let's just call it YMMA, how's that?  Young mens Muslim association.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only change was that men aren't allowed in the pool area.
> 
> What kind of swim wear the women choose is up to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if a man is there with his daughter and she wants to swim, he's in the awkward position of just letting her go alone or they have to wait right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> With these people, if a non Muslim man is even able to see a Muslim woman with her swimming attire, that is enough for the husband or father to freak out and attack the poor man.  Let's just call it YMMA, how's that?  Young mens Muslim association.
Click to expand...


Might as well.


----------



## Roudy

Sunni Man said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah so the Muslim fathers and husbands are allowed in the pool, but we are not?
> 
> 
> 
> No muslim men would be allowed in the pool area either.
> 
> Just because they might be related to 1 of the girls/women.
> 
> They are forbidden to be around the other girls/women in the pool.  .
Click to expand...

Take this forbidden shit back to your Shariah mosque or Islamic health spa.  Suicide bombing classes start this winter.


----------



## KevinWestern

Katzndogz said:


> The difference is the limitation is not merely applied to the class.   Men are excluded from the pool area for any reason.  It could be an hour's senior aqua aerobics class.  All seniors.  Does that mean no one under 60 can enter the room.  In England it started out with a muslim women's only class eventually leading to having all the windows blacked out.
> 
> Why would muslim women have to be limited to only one hour a week?  Why can't they go any time they want?  Build a separate pool for men.  Maybe a separate building too.



Katz, do you own this YMCA in St. Paul? 

What special authority have you been granted that allows you to have any say in the business decisions of that organization?


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man, what if you're a Christian and want to use the YMCA facility at the same time it's hosting a Bat Mitzvah?!!!
> 
> Berkshire Outdoor Center | B'nai Mitzvah
> 
> What discrimination!
> 
> People should be able to use private facilities WHENEVER they want, regardless of what the facility owners have scheduled.
> 
> 
> 
> That's like renting a hotel ballroom for a Jewish or Muslim wedding, idiot.  Again, no men allowed and Shariah attire IS NOT consistent with the YMCA's mission statement.  In fact, it is the OPPOSITE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roudy - are you an owner of a YMCA? If the answer is no, then you have 0.00% authority on how they decided to conduct their business. It's not against the law to stray away from one's mission statement.
> 
> 0.00% authority.
> 
> Go buy a YMCA if you don't like how that company is conducting itself.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha.  You are funny.  I don't have to be an "owner" to make comments or have opinions on this matter, dipweed.


----------



## Sunni Man

Roudy said:


> With these people, if a non Muslim man is even able to see a Muslim woman with her swimming attire, that is enough for the husband or father to freak out and attack the poor man.  Let's just call it YMMA, how's that?  Young mens Muslim association.


Sounds good to me!!   ....


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh man, what if you're a Christian and want to use the YMCA facility at the same time it's hosting a Bat Mitzvah?!!!
> 
> Berkshire Outdoor Center | B'nai Mitzvah
> 
> What discrimination!
> 
> People should be able to use private facilities WHENEVER they want, regardless of what the facility owners have scheduled.
> 
> 
> 
> That's like renting a hotel ballroom for a Jewish or Muslim wedding, idiot.  Again, no men allowed and Shariah attire IS NOT consistent with the YMCA's mission statement.  In fact, it is the OPPOSITE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Shariah attire" is not required.  How many times do you need to be told this?
Click to expand...

Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.


----------



## Roudy

Sunni Man said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> With these people, if a non Muslim man is even able to see a Muslim woman with her swimming attire, that is enough for the husband or father to freak out and attack the poor man.  Let's just call it YMMA, how's that?  Young mens Muslim association.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds good to me!!   ....
Click to expand...

Now tell me, in these Shariah swimming pools, would they allow a bunch of Christian women to hold "classes" wearing bikinis?  How long would it take for the savages to turn the color of the pool water to BLOOD RED?  Ha ha ha.  

You Islamic freaks should first walk the walk before you talk the talk.  Don't expect others to do what you yourselves would never do.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's like renting a hotel ballroom for a Jewish or Muslim wedding, idiot.  Again, no men allowed and Shariah attire IS NOT consistent with the YMCA's mission statement.  In fact, it is the OPPOSITE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Shariah attire" is not required.  How many times do you need to be told this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.
Click to expand...


Roudy is right, these women are not going to be in there wearing string bikinis or even a one piece, it will be Islamic swimming wear.


----------



## High_Gravity

This is what they wear in Islamic swimming pools in London.

Swimmers are told to wear burkinis - Telegraph

Just like in England soon everyone who enters the pool will have to don Islamic swimming gear, I guess I'll go brush up on my Arabic.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Ha ha ha.  You are funny.  I don't have to be an "owner" to make comments or have opinions on this matter, dipweed.



No you don't. I fully agree that it's your choice if you (as an outsider) chooses to whine, moan, bitch, and cry about the business decisions of a successful company.


----------



## Sunni Man

Roudy said:


> Now tell me, in these Shariah swimming pools, would they allow a bunch of Christian women to hold "classes" wearing bikinis?  How long would it take for the savages to turn the color of the pool water to BLOOD RED?  Ha ha ha.
> 
> You Islamic freaks should first walk the walk before you talk the talk.  Don't expect others to do what you yourselves would never do.


In the city where I live they already have womens only swim classes and men are not allowed in the pool area.

Some of the women are muslims and the hasn't been any problems.   ...


----------



## Roudy

Notice To all YMCA Members:​Starting next week Shariah Workouts in headscarfs and burka's at the Y, no men allowed, will start from 10 AM to 2 PM Mondays and Wednesdays.  During these "women only workouts" <wink wink> men are not allowed in the gym / equipment area.  Men who are traversing to other areas of the gym should be considerate of the Muslim women working out, and should not look at the women.  Those who do, do so at your own peril.  

The Minnesota YMCA thanks you for your cooperation and continued patronage. 

Allah Akbar!


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's like renting a hotel ballroom for a Jewish or Muslim wedding, idiot.  Again, no men allowed and Shariah attire IS NOT consistent with the YMCA's mission statement.  In fact, it is the OPPOSITE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Shariah attire" is not required.  How many times do you need to be told this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.
Click to expand...


The point is they can choose to join this class if they wish and wear whatever suits they want. 

If you're upset about the gender discrimination then that's a different subject.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Shariah attire" is not required.  How many times do you need to be told this?
> 
> 
> 
> Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The point is they can choose to join this class if they wish and wear whatever suits they want.
> 
> If you're upset about the gender discrimination then that's a different subject.
Click to expand...

Yeah sure.  They are stomping on other people's rights and the organization's protocols while appeasing the Muslims.  That's what is clearly going on here.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Notice To all YMCA Members:​Starting next week Shariah Workouts in headscarfs and burka's at the Y, no men allowed, will start from 10 AM to 2 PM Mondays and Wednesdays.  During these "women only workouts" <wink wink> men are not allowed in the gym / equipment area.  Men who are traversing to other areas of the gym should be considerate of the Muslim women working out, and should not look at the women.  Those who do, do so at your own peril.
> 
> The Minnesota YMCA thanks you for your cooperation and continued patronage.
> 
> Allah Akbar!



Can see your argument is crumbling. 

Instead of talking about the situation at hand logically and honestly (1 hour a week open to all women), lets completely exaggerate the example with absolutely zero evidence in a futile attempt to make it look like the YMCA is going to become some sort of a Mosque. Bullshit, Roudy. Complete bullshit. 

And I'll tell you what, if the YMCA wanted to actually do that, it's their right to do so. Doubt it though, because it'd be a horrible business decision.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is they can choose to join this class if they wish and wear whatever suits they want.
> 
> If you're upset about the gender discrimination then that's a different subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah sure.  They are stomping on other people's rights and the organization's protocols while appeasing the Muslims.  That's what is clearly going on here.
Click to expand...


It will be like the Islamic swimming pools in England, people will be forced to don Islamic swimming gear.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is they can choose to join this class if they wish and wear whatever suits they want.
> 
> If you're upset about the gender discrimination then that's a different subject.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sure.  They are stomping on other people's rights and the organization's protocols while appeasing the Muslims.  That's what is clearly going on here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It will be like the Islamic swimming pools in England, people will be forced to don Islamic swimming gear.
Click to expand...


There are no swimming pools open to Non-Muslims in England? 

Are you saying if you own a pool in England that you shouldn't be able to set the rules?


----------



## Sunni Man

High_Gravity said:


> It will be like the Islamic swimming pools in England, people will be forced to don Islamic swimming gear.


Now you are pulling a Roudy and just making stupid stuff up.    ..


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point is they can choose to join this class if they wish and wear whatever suits they want.
> 
> If you're upset about the gender discrimination then that's a different subject.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah sure.  They are stomping on other people's rights and the organization's protocols while appeasing the Muslims.  That's what is clearly going on here.
Click to expand...


What "RIGHTS" are you talking about exactly Roudy? All of us would love to hear.

Is it your "right" to be able to use the YMCA's property any time you wish? Haha. Do you know how ridiculous you sound right now?


----------



## Katzndogz

Sunni Man said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> They probably thought the same thing in London, Paris, Oslo, Malmo and Stockholm too.  What's an hour a week going to hurt?
> 
> 
> 
> Paranoid much??   ...
Click to expand...


I'm a realist and what's more, you know it!


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sure.  They are stomping on other people's rights and the organization's protocols while appeasing the Muslims.  That's what is clearly going on here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It will be like the Islamic swimming pools in England, people will be forced to don Islamic swimming gear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are no swimming pools open to Non-Muslims in England?
> 
> Are you saying if you own a pool in England that you shouldn't be able to set the rules?
Click to expand...


What I'm saying is these things always start out small, than before you know it the YMCA is basically an Islamic organization. Nobody has ever made just one accomodation for Muslims and just left it at that its always more and more.


----------



## High_Gravity

Sunni Man said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> It will be like the Islamic swimming pools in England, people will be forced to don Islamic swimming gear.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are pulling a Roudy and just making stupid stuff up.    ..
Click to expand...


This actually happened, I posted an article.


----------



## whitehall

Black_Label said:


> You just can't make this crap up,...
> 
> _Fox News anchor Heather Nauert announced on Monday that a YMCA swim class that respected the religious traditions of Muslim girls was proof that Sharia law is now changing everything.
> 
> The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in towns across the Midwest.
> 
> Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool, Nauert pointed out on Monday. Sharia law is now changing everything._
> 
> Fox News: YMCA swim class for Muslim girls proves Sharia law is ?changing everything? | The Raw Story



I beg to differ. You sure can make it up. Fox morning slot "Fox and Friends" is a favorite target for Media Matters surveillance because it is an open forum rather than "news" and anything they say might falsely promoted by the left as news. Nauert is hardly a Tea Party type. She used to work for ABC news and is married to an executive from a firm that is a big contributor to the Obama administration, Goldman Sachs. Let it go lefties. It ain't worth the effort.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> What I'm saying is these things always start out small, than before you know it the YMCA is basically an Islamic organization. Nobody has ever made just one accomodation for Muslims and just left it at that its always more and more.



Sorry Gravity, it's America. If there is a Muslim population businesses will change and adapt to accommodate their culture (in order to make more money). It's how shit works. You can't fault someone for trying to attract customers. 

Businesses did this for the Italians, the Irish, the Mexicans, and countless other groups that made their way into America.


----------



## Roudy

Sunni Man said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> It will be like the Islamic swimming pools in England, people will be forced to don Islamic swimming gear.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are pulling a Roudy and just making stupid stuff up.    ..
Click to expand...

Hmmmm...a Muslim Holocaust denier who thinks America should live under Shariah law, is accusing others of "making stuff up".  Is this comedy hour, Abdul?


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is these things always start out small, than before you know it the YMCA is basically an Islamic organization. Nobody has ever made just one accomodation for Muslims and just left it at that its always more and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry Gravity, it's America. If there is a Muslim population businesses will change and adapt to accommodate their culture (in order to make more money). It's how shit works. You can't fault someone for trying to attract customers.
> 
> Businesses did this for the Italians, the Irish, the Mexicans, and countless other groups that made their way into America.
Click to expand...


The Italians, Irish and Mexicans are nationalities not religions and for the most part they have assimiliated into American culture. In this case, instead of assimiliating into America they have us changing for them.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point is they can choose to join this class if they wish and wear whatever suits they want.
> 
> If you're upset about the gender discrimination then that's a different subject.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sure.  They are stomping on other people's rights and the organization's protocols while appeasing the Muslims.  That's what is clearly going on here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What "RIGHTS" are you talking about exactly Roudy? All of us would love to hear.
> 
> Is it your "right" to be able to use the YMCA's property any time you wish? Haha. Do you know how ridiculous you sound right now?
Click to expand...

The rights of the men and all other non Muslims who attend the Y.  Duh.  

You do realize that there are many secular Muslims who would be just as opposed as I am to this shit, don't you?


----------



## Katzndogz

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> It will be like the Islamic swimming pools in England, people will be forced to don Islamic swimming gear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are no swimming pools open to Non-Muslims in England?
> 
> Are you saying if you own a pool in England that you shouldn't be able to set the rules?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is these things always start out small, than before you know it the YMCA is basically an Islamic organization. Nobody has ever made just one accomodation for Muslims and just left it at that its always more and more.
Click to expand...


You're right.   It is always a small concession.  Then another one, and another one.   No one decided on day one to black out the windows in the pools in the UK.   It was a progression.  Like boiling the frog.  

How did the Norwegians lose Oslo?   It didn't happen all at once.  It happened because of a demand for muslim rights.  Now at 10% of the population, muslims are bringing the entire nation down with the full approval of the Norwegian government.   Celebrate diversity!

Oslo Police: We have lost the city. | Vlad Tepes

They call for an Islamic state where the Sharia is law, although less than 10% of the Norwegian population are Muslims. How will things be when they reach 20 percent or more?


----------



## Sunni Man

Katzndogz said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> They probably thought the same thing in London, Paris, Oslo, Malmo and Stockholm too.  What's an hour a week going to hurt?
> 
> 
> 
> Paranoid much??   ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm a realist and what's more, you know it!
Click to expand...

We already have a dedicated muslim in the White House.

So making America an Islamic sharia nation will be a piece of cake.    ...


----------



## Coyote

Sunni Man said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Paranoid much??   ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a realist and what's more, you know it!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We already have a dedicated muslim in the White House.
> 
> So making America an Islamic sharia nation will be a piece of cake.    ...
Click to expand...


bwahahaha...


----------



## High_Gravity

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are no swimming pools open to Non-Muslims in England?
> 
> Are you saying if you own a pool in England that you shouldn't be able to set the rules?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I'm saying is these things always start out small, than before you know it the YMCA is basically an Islamic organization. Nobody has ever made just one accomodation for Muslims and just left it at that its always more and more.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You're right.   It is always a small concession.  Then another one, and another one.   No one decided on day one to black out the windows in the pools in the UK.   It was a progression.  Like boiling the frog.
> 
> How did the Norwegians lose Oslo?   It didn't happen all at once.  It happened because of a demand for muslim rights.  Now at 10% of the population, muslims are bringing the entire nation down with the full approval of the Norwegian government.   Celebrate diversity!
> 
> Oslo Police: We have lost the city. | Vlad Tepes
> 
> They call for an Islamic state where the Sharia is law, although less than 10% of the Norwegian population are Muslims. How will things be when they reach 20 percent or more?
Click to expand...


Well it sounds like Osloistan will have some fine chicken shawarma and dajaj.


----------



## Sweet_Caroline

Sunni Man said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Paranoid much??   ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a realist and what's more, you know it!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We already have a dedicated muslim in the White House.
> 
> So making America an Islamic sharia nation will be a piece of cake.    ...
Click to expand...


Wow, that is a post to save on permalink.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sure.  They are stomping on other people's rights and the organization's protocols while appeasing the Muslims.  That's what is clearly going on here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What "RIGHTS" are you talking about exactly Roudy? All of us would love to hear.
> 
> Is it your "right" to be able to use the YMCA's property any time you wish? Haha. Do you know how ridiculous you sound right now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The rights of the men and all other non Muslims who attend the Y.  Duh.
> 
> You do realize that there are many secular Muslims who would be just as opposed as I am to this shit, don't you?
Click to expand...


Don't backtread into nonsense. You said the YMCA is "stomping on other people's rights" (quote) by choosing to set aside 1 hour of pool time to women only. 

That implies that outsiders have a "right" to enjoy the pool whenever they wish. That is incredibly untrue. The only "right" outsiders have is to use the pool under the guidelines set by the pool owners.

Doesn't matter if you or secular Muslims object; all that matters is what the owners decide to do in the best interest of their business. Whine all you want about it, but at the end of the day you own nothing and therefore have no say on the matter.


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "RIGHTS" are you talking about exactly Roudy? All of us would love to hear.
> 
> Is it your "right" to be able to use the YMCA's property any time you wish? Haha. Do you know how ridiculous you sound right now?
> 
> 
> 
> The rights of the men and all other non Muslims who attend the Y.  Duh.
> 
> You do realize that there are many secular Muslims who would be just as opposed as I am to this shit, don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't backtread into nonsense. You said the YMCA is "stomping on other people's rights" (quote) by choosing to set aside 1 hour of pool time to women only.
> 
> That implies that outsiders have a "right" to enjoy the pool whenever they wish. That is incredibly untrue. The only "right" outsiders have is to use the pool under the guidelines set by the pool owners.
> 
> Doesn't matter if you or secular Muslims object; all that matters is what the owners decide to do in the best interest of their business. Whine all you want about it, but at the end of the day you own nothing and therefore have no say on the matter.
Click to expand...


So we can't discuss something unless we own it?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's like renting a hotel ballroom for a Jewish or Muslim wedding, idiot.  Again, no men allowed and Shariah attire IS NOT consistent with the YMCA's mission statement.  In fact, it is the OPPOSITE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Shariah attire" is not required.  How many times do you need to be told this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.
Click to expand...


Well Roudy, I'm sure you will be able to show me an article or something stating that all the women must be Muslims, non-Muslims are barred and they must wear Shariah swimsuits in their YMCA class.  Easy right, since you're so smart and all. 

Funny - the article and video I posted showed women and girls wearing everything from "modest" swimsuits to bikinis.  Must have been faked


----------



## WillReadmore

High_Gravity said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Than whats the point?
> 
> 
> 
> The only change was that men aren't allowed in the pool area.
> 
> What kind of swim wear the women choose is up to them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So if a man is there with his daughter and she wants to swim, he's in the awkward position of just letting her go alone or they have to wait right?
Click to expand...

Have you seen their schedule?

There are lots of time slots during which his daughter can't swim.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rights of the men and all other non Muslims who attend the Y.  Duh.
> 
> You do realize that there are many secular Muslims who would be just as opposed as I am to this shit, don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't backtread into nonsense. You said the YMCA is "stomping on other people's rights" (quote) by choosing to set aside 1 hour of pool time to women only.
> 
> That implies that outsiders have a "right" to enjoy the pool whenever they wish. That is incredibly untrue. The only "right" outsiders have is to use the pool under the guidelines set by the pool owners.
> 
> Doesn't matter if you or secular Muslims object; all that matters is what the owners decide to do in the best interest of their business. Whine all you want about it, but at the end of the day you own nothing and therefore have no say on the matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we can't discuss something unless we own it?
Click to expand...


You most certainly can discuss it, but unless you're an owner you're really doing nothing more than whining about the business decisions of entities you neither own nor hold stake in which is... not very productive to say the least. 

In Roudy's case, he was claiming that outsiders have a "right" to use the pool whenever they want and I quickly shut down that false assumption. No one has a Constitutional right to use someone else's private property. 

.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> What "RIGHTS" are you talking about exactly Roudy? All of us would love to hear.
> 
> Is it your "right" to be able to use the YMCA's property any time you wish? Haha. Do you know how ridiculous you sound right now?
> 
> 
> 
> The rights of the men and all other non Muslims who attend the Y.  Duh.
> 
> You do realize that there are many secular Muslims who would be just as opposed as I am to this shit, don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't backtread into nonsense. You said the YMCA is "stomping on other people's rights" (quote) by choosing to set aside 1 hour of pool time to women only.
> 
> That implies that outsiders have a "right" to enjoy the pool whenever they wish. That is incredibly untrue. The only "right" outsiders have is to use the pool under the guidelines set by the pool owners.
> 
> Doesn't matter if you or secular Muslims object; all that matters is what the owners decide to do in the best interest of their business. Whine all you want about it, but at the end of the day you own nothing and therefore have no say on the matter.
Click to expand...

Wow, the ignorance just oozes right out of you.  I just told you that men are not allowed, and that this "class" will comprise of Muslim women in Islamic swimsuits, all, at the YMCA.  And you are wondering what if anything is wrong with this picture?


----------



## WillReadmore

Roudy said:


> With these people, if a non Muslim man is even able to see a Muslim woman with her swimming attire, that is enough for the husband or father to freak out and attack the poor man.  Let's just call it YMMA, how's that?  Young mens Muslim association.


Yes, there will be an hour once in a while when you won't get to watch the women swim!

Is that going to change your day?


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rights of the men and all other non Muslims who attend the Y.  Duh.
> 
> You do realize that there are many secular Muslims who would be just as opposed as I am to this shit, don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't backtread into nonsense. You said the YMCA is "stomping on other people's rights" (quote) by choosing to set aside 1 hour of pool time to women only.
> 
> That implies that outsiders have a "right" to enjoy the pool whenever they wish. That is incredibly untrue. The only "right" outsiders have is to use the pool under the guidelines set by the pool owners.
> 
> Doesn't matter if you or secular Muslims object; all that matters is what the owners decide to do in the best interest of their business. Whine all you want about it, but at the end of the day you own nothing and therefore have no say on the matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So we can't discuss something unless we own it?
Click to expand...

Do you own a Starbucks?  Then you should shut up and not saying anything about the policies of Starbucks.    Ha ha ha.


----------



## High_Gravity

WillReadmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> With these people, if a non Muslim man is even able to see a Muslim woman with her swimming attire, that is enough for the husband or father to freak out and attack the poor man.  Let's just call it YMMA, how's that?  Young mens Muslim association.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there will be an hour once in a while when you won't get to watch the women swim!
> 
> Is that going to change your day?
Click to expand...


Why does everyone think its about watching women swim? have you been to the Y? its mostly families with kids, this is not exactly Hedonism in Jamaica.


----------



## High_Gravity

I'm out guys, nice chat.


----------



## WillReadmore

Roudy said:


> Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.


So, you know for a fact what these women will be wearing when there are no men around?


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Wow, the ignorance just oozes right out of you.  I just told you that men are not allowed, and that this "class" will comprise of Muslim women in Islamic swimsuits, all, at the YMCA.  And you are wondering what if anything is wrong with this picture?



The guy who thinks that private citizens have a "right" to use a business's private property whenever they wish is calling ME ignorant? Has this world gone mad? 

Any woman can use the class, and can wear whatever they want (but assuming they can't be naked, of course). If you're upset about the gender discrimination let me know and we can go from there.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Do you own a Starbucks?  Then you should shut up and not saying anything about the policies of Starbucks.    Ha ha ha.



As I mentioned before, I never said you couldn't whine about a business deciding to do something with the property it owns. But just want to point out you'll only be whining. 

Go get em tiger.


----------



## Roudy

WillReadmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> With these people, if a non Muslim man is even able to see a Muslim woman with her swimming attire, that is enough for the husband or father to freak out and attack the poor man.  Let's just call it YMMA, how's that?  Young mens Muslim association.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there will be an hour once in a while when you won't get to watch the women swim!
> 
> Is that going to change your day?
Click to expand...

I don't use the Y, I'm an Equinox member, been one for a long time.  Prefer the Equinox women wearing the tight Lulu-lemon outfits.  Not only does my body get a workout, but so do my eye muscles.

  But I used to use the Y frequently in my distant past.  And since I used to be a swimmer, I remember that anytime of day I showed up, by law they would have at least three or four lanes open to the public.  Sometimes certain lanes would be closed for swim lessons, or senior swimming, or even people with handicaps.  And anytime I visited the Y, I knew that I am visiting a Christian based organization. Although I knew that people from all religions, races, and cultures frequented the Y, depending on the surrounding neighborhood the Y is located.  

I know that if I showed up to swim one day, and they told me "pool is closed to men" it's women only today, and I peeked in and saw women dressed up in Islamic Shariah swimsuits flapping their fat butts displacing half the pool water, I would get enraged and asked for my membership to be canceled or complained to the manager.  I would do the same if I saw a bunch of orthodox Jewish women as well, and I'm Jewish.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you own a Starbucks?  Then you should shut up and not saying anything about the policies of Starbucks.    Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I mentioned before, I never said you couldn't whine about a business deciding to do something with the property it owns. But just want to point out you'll only be whining.
> 
> Go get em tiger.
Click to expand...

And neither can you whine about allowing Shariah to creep into a Christian based organization either.


----------



## Roudy

WillReadmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> So, you know for a fact what these women will be wearing when there are no men around?
Click to expand...

Read the thread idiot.


----------



## Sunni Man

Roudy said:


> I know that if I showed up to swim one day, and they told me "pool is closed to men" it's women only today, and I peeked in and saw women dressed up in Islamic Shariah swimsuits flapping their fat butts displacing half the pool water, I would get enraged and asked for my membership to be canceled or complained to the manager.


I have no doubt that the management would be happy to see a loon like you cancel your membership.   ......


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> And neither can you whine about allowing Shariah to creep into a Christian based organization either.



HAHA, ok man. Worst counterpoint thus far by you. 

My stance is that the YMCA - a private company - can do whatever it wants. I'm completely indifferent on their decision to host a one hour women's only class. That's been my stance all along. I'm not arguing for or against the class, I'm simply defending their right to do what they want with the property they own. 

Where's the whine exactly in being indifferent?


----------



## whitehall

Low information lefties rely on the tax exempt Media Matters for their daily dose of hatred so much that they lost sight of the difference between news, news analysis, open discussion forums and even satire. Fox and Friends is not news. It isn't even news analysis. It's a free for all morning discussion and a favorite surveillance by the tax exempt Media Matters clone "News Hounds" "we watch Fox so you don't have to". What ever the Fox babe said is magnified by the left wing hate blogs.


----------



## WillReadmore

High_Gravity said:


> Why does everyone think its about watching women swim? have you been to the Y? its mostly families with kids, this is not exactly Hedonism in Jamaica.


The whole issue here is that there are differing opinions on modesty, isn't it?

Your notion is quite popular in the US today.  But, that doesn't make it outrageous for the YMCA to add the male-only restriction for an hour for those who appreciate that.

We have other exercise classes that are gender restricted.


----------



## Iceman

Sunni Man said:


> Both muslims and orthodox jews have segregated seating at their houses of worship and social functions.
> 
> And this isn't going to change no matter how much the western secularists and feminists hate it.    ...



This.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly...YMCA....Young *MEN'S CHRISTIAN* Association.  How did they get to take both the Christianity and the Men out of it, just because of Shariah Shit law?  Someone down there needs to get fired ASAP for violating the rules of the organization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Jewish women shouldn't be allowed to swim there either?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, you are really dumb or playing dumb.  Jewish men and women, as well as Muslim men and women current attend the Y and use it's various family programs in droves.  But there is no Jewish Law Swimming for women only at the Y!  Doy!
Click to expand...


Shouldn't that be up for the YMCA, as a private organization to decide? If you don't like it, than go to another community center.


----------



## WillReadmore

Roudy said:


> And anytime I visited the Y, I knew that I am visiting a Christian based organization. Although I knew that people from all religions, races, and cultures frequented the Y, depending on the surrounding neighborhood the Y is located.
> 
> I know that if I showed up to swim one day, and they told me "pool is closed to men" it's women only today, and I peeked in and saw women dressed up in Islamic Shariah swimsuits flapping their fat butts displacing half the pool water, I would get enraged and asked for my membership to be canceled or complained to the manager.  I would do the same if I saw a bunch of orthodox Jewish women as well, and I'm Jewish.



Your faith is startlingly weak if it's actually important to you that the YMCA is Christian.

As for the rest, I'm not amused by how you spread your bigotry.  And, it's time you take some anger management classes.


----------



## WillReadmore

Roudy said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> So, you know for a fact what these women will be wearing when there are no men around?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read the thread idiot.
Click to expand...

There is nothing in this thread that says what women wear when there are no men around.

Nice ad hom, though!


----------



## tinydancer

This really screws me over because I am now about to fight as a feminist from waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when, the young girls rights to swim segregated from men. 

Truly this fries my brain.


----------



## tinydancer

Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour.


----------



## KevinWestern

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Jewish women shouldn't be allowed to swim there either?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you are really dumb or playing dumb.  Jewish men and women, as well as Muslim men and women current attend the Y and use it's various family programs in droves.  But there is no Jewish Law Swimming for women only at the Y!  Doy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shouldn't that be up for the YMCA, as a private organization to decide? If you don't like it, than go to another community center.
Click to expand...


Actually Iceman, you're wrong and as I believe it's  [MENTION=36154]Roudy[/MENTION]'s Constitutional right to be able to use private property that he doesn't own in any way he sees fit. 

If the YMCA says the pool closes at 10pm and Roudy objects to this (as he would like it to be open until 12am because he enjoys late night swimming), then I think the YMCA would have no choice but to scramble to extend hours out to whatever is suitable for the outsider who wishes to use the property. 




.


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So Jewish women shouldn't be allowed to swim there either?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you are really dumb or playing dumb.  Jewish men and women, as well as Muslim men and women current attend the Y and use it's various family programs in droves.  But there is no Jewish Law Swimming for women only at the Y!  Doy!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Shouldn't that be up for the YMCA, as a private organization to decide? If you don't like it, than go to another community center.
Click to expand...

Oh OK.  Thanks for the advice.  Do they have a gym at your trailer park? Heh heh heh.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you are really dumb or playing dumb.  Jewish men and women, as well as Muslim men and women current attend the Y and use it's various family programs in droves.  But there is no Jewish Law Swimming for women only at the Y!  Doy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldn't that be up for the YMCA, as a private organization to decide? If you don't like it, than go to another community center.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually Iceman, you're wrong and as I believe it's  [MENTION=36154]Roudy[/MENTION]'s Constitutional right to be able to use private property that he doesn't own in any way he sees fit.
> 
> If the YMCA says the pool closes at 10pm and Roudy objects to this (as he would like it to be open until 12am because he enjoys late night swimming), then I think the YMCA would have no choice but to scramble to extend hours out to whatever is suitable for the outsider who wishes to use the property.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Did you read what I said?  There are always at least two to three lanes open to ALL members in the swimming pool, regardless.  

This policy of segregating the Y pool into a Shariah law womens only pool, for even one hour a day, violates the YMCA's own policies.  This is not the "company policy" of the YMCA, it's ONE Y with bad management acting independently, like all YMCA's do.  Which is why their asses need to be fired.


----------



## Roudy

WillReadmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you know for a fact what these women will be wearing when there are no men around?
> 
> 
> 
> Read the thread idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is nothing in this thread that says what women wear when there are no men around.
> 
> Nice ad hom, though!
Click to expand...

There isn't.  They are asking men to be forbidden, and Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire.  No, there isn't.  These Muslim women are going to show up in see-through mesh bikinis.  What a dumbkoff!


----------



## WillReadmore

Roudy said:


> There isn't.  They are asking men to be forbidden, and Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire.  No, there isn't.  These Muslim women are going to show up in see-through mesh bikinis.  What a dumbkoff!


No post here says anything about what they are going to wear.

Muslims aren't all identical in their dress restrictions when in private.  Covering to the degree of the swimsuit depicted in this thread is more covering than is required when no men are present.

More ad hom - indicating a certain all around weakness of character as well as confidence.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Did you read what I said?  There are always at least two to three lanes open to ALL members in the swimming pool, regardless.



What do you mean, is this the law that "all private swimming pools must have 2-3 lanes open at all times"? Don't understand your point. 

The owners of the pool are free to modify the rules at any point in time. Not your call. 



Roudy said:


> This policy of segregating the Y pool into a Shariah law womens only pool, for even one hour a day, violates the YMCA's own policies.


You seem to be an expert on the Y's policies; if you want please provide us with the exact policy a "female-only swim" violates and we can go from there. Regardless, companies are free to change their policy at any time they want (in case you were unaware). 




Roudy said:


> This is not the "company policy" of the YMCA, it's ONE Y with bad management acting independently, like all YMCA's do.  Which is why their asses need to be fired.



Once again, it's not your call whether anyone should be fired. I'm sure with all the hooplah the CEO of YMCA is well aware of the situation and if he/she is as outraged as you are over a location dedicating a single hour a week to a "women's only swim" than he/she can fire the management staff and spend money looking for new people to run the facility.


----------



## WillReadmore

Black_Label said:


> You just can't make this crap up,...
> 
> _Fox News anchor Heather Nauert announced on Monday that a YMCA swim class that respected the religious traditions of Muslim girls was proof that Sharia law is now changing everything.
> 
> The Minneapolis StarTribune reported last week that the downtown St. Paul YMCA had teamed up with the St. Paul police department to teach a group of Somali-American girls to swim. To respect the religious traditions and modesty of the girls  ages 5 to 17  men were not allowed in the pool area during the one-hour class.
> 
> But for the Fox News host, this was a sign that Sharia law was creeping in towns across the Midwest.
> 
> Well, the minority becoming the majority at one community pool, Nauert pointed out on Monday. Sharia law is now changing everything._
> 
> Fox News: YMCA swim class for Muslim girls proves Sharia law is ?changing everything? | The Raw Story



Could Fox get more stupid?  Well I suppose the answer is "absolutely".

But, the idea that having men excluded for one hour "changes everything"???  Who is that nut case women they hired to say that nonsense?


----------



## Katzndogz

Sunni Man said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Paranoid much??   ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a realist and what's more, you know it!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We already have a dedicated muslim in the White House.
> 
> So making America an Islamic sharia nation will be a piece of cake.    ...
Click to expand...


All except for that opposition stuff.   While I don't doubt that muslims will use the same tactic here as they have in Europe, the outcome might be very different.   

Europe has been mostly wussified.  They are horrified at the thought of fighting back.   America is a much more violent country.  Muslims will have to keep their activities confined to liberalland.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Oh OK.  Thanks for the advice.  Do they have a gym at your trailer park? Heh heh heh.



Sigh. 

.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rights of the men and all other non Muslims who attend the Y.  Duh.
> 
> You do realize that there are many secular Muslims who would be just as opposed as I am to this shit, don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't backtread into nonsense. You said the YMCA is "stomping on other people's rights" (quote) by choosing to set aside 1 hour of pool time to women only.
> 
> That implies that outsiders have a "right" to enjoy the pool whenever they wish. That is incredibly untrue. The only "right" outsiders have is to use the pool under the guidelines set by the pool owners.
> 
> Doesn't matter if you or secular Muslims object; all that matters is what the owners decide to do in the best interest of their business. Whine all you want about it, but at the end of the day you own nothing and therefore have no say on the matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, the ignorance just oozes right out of you.  I just told you that men are not allowed, and that this "class" will comprise of* Muslim women* in *Islamic swimsuits*, all, at the YMCA.  And you are wondering what if anything is wrong with this picture?
Click to expand...


Yes.  You *said*.  But, to quote Suzie Ormond - show me the money.  *Where *does it say they *must* wear Islamic swimsuits?  *Where *does it say they can *only* be Muslim women?

Or are you making all this up?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> With these people, if a non Muslim man is even able to see a Muslim woman with her swimming attire, that is enough for the husband or father to freak out and attack the poor man.  Let's just call it YMMA, how's that?  Young mens Muslim association.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there will be an hour once in a while when you won't get to watch the women swim!
> 
> Is that going to change your day?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't use the Y, I'm an Equinox member, been one for a long time.  Prefer the Equinox women wearing the tight Lulu-lemon outfits.  Not only does my body get a workout, but so do my eye muscles.
> 
> But I used to use the Y frequently in my distant past.  And since I used to be a swimmer, I remember that anytime of day I showed up, by law they would have at least three or four lanes open to the public.  Sometimes certain lanes would be closed for swim lessons, or senior swimming, or even people with handicaps.  And anytime I visited the Y, I knew that I am visiting a Christian based organization. Although I knew that people from all religions, races, and cultures frequented the Y, depending on the surrounding neighborhood the Y is located.
> 
> I know that if I showed up to swim one day, and they told me "pool is closed to men" it's women only today, and I peeked in and saw women dressed up in Islamic Shariah swimsuits flapping their fat butts displacing half the pool water, I would get enraged and asked for my membership to be canceled or complained to the manager.  I would do the same if I saw a bunch of orthodox Jewish women as well, and I'm Jewish.
Click to expand...


I grew up going to our local Y.  I never had a clue it was "Christian" - it was simply a local youth organization that offered a variety of good, healthy activities for everyone in our neighborhood. I couldn't go and swim "any time I wanted" - there were classes held at certain times - usually segregated by age and ability.  I have no idea if there were gender segregated classes as I was a kid, but I wouldn't have cared.  Nor would I have cared if they were a group of fat women.  Or Jewish.  Or Muslim.  The Y does good things for many people - they serve their communities and answer their unique needs.

What is so horrible about a women-only swim hour, in those communities where there is a substantial demographic - that the Y must be damned for offering something that they can participate in, that is beneficial to their health and offers something postive that you must be so vile about?  Why shouldn't Orthodox Jewish women be allowed that?  Why shouldn't traditional Muslim women be allowed that?  Or even any women for whom an intimate aquaintenceship with spandex be a humiliating affair?  There's room in our society for all of this and to *meet everyone's needs.
*  For gosh sakes - it's a Christian (and I'm betting a Jewish and Muslim) value.

Why not?  I don't get it


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Men are forbidden and women are all Muslims wearing Shariah swimsuits, in a YMCA.  Do you think a non Muslim woman wearing swimming speedos would join such a class?  You are stupider than I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> So, you know for a fact what these women will be wearing when there are no men around?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Read the thread idiot.
Click to expand...


Translation:  he doesn't know for a "fact"


----------



## Coyote

tinydancer said:


> Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour.


Damn...have to spread my rep


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Read the thread idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing in this thread that says what women wear when there are no men around.
> 
> Nice ad hom, though!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There isn't.  They are asking men to be forbidden, and Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire.  No, there isn't.  These Muslim women are going to show up in see-through mesh bikinis.  What a dumbkoff!
Click to expand...


From what I have read and heard, traditional Muslim women dress very differently in their own households amongst their own family members - it's when they are under the eyes of non-family males  in the public sphere, that they dress conservatively.  Among women - it's very different.  Am I wrong about this?

I seriously doubt they will be swimming in full body coverings in a class of only women unless it's their personal choice.


----------



## Hossfly

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, there will be an hour once in a while when you won't get to watch the women swim!
> 
> Is that going to change your day?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't use the Y, I'm an Equinox member, been one for a long time.  Prefer the Equinox women wearing the tight Lulu-lemon outfits.  Not only does my body get a workout, but so do my eye muscles.
> 
> But I used to use the Y frequently in my distant past.  And since I used to be a swimmer, I remember that anytime of day I showed up, by law they would have at least three or four lanes open to the public.  Sometimes certain lanes would be closed for swim lessons, or senior swimming, or even people with handicaps.  And anytime I visited the Y, I knew that I am visiting a Christian based organization. Although I knew that people from all religions, races, and cultures frequented the Y, depending on the surrounding neighborhood the Y is located.
> 
> I know that if I showed up to swim one day, and they told me "pool is closed to men" it's women only today, and I peeked in and saw women dressed up in Islamic Shariah swimsuits flapping their fat butts displacing half the pool water, I would get enraged and asked for my membership to be canceled or complained to the manager.  I would do the same if I saw a bunch of orthodox Jewish women as well, and I'm Jewish.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I grew up going to our local Y.  I never had a clue it was "Christian" - it was simply a local youth organization that offered a variety of good, healthy activities for everyone in our neighborhood. I couldn't go and swim "any time I wanted" - there were classes held at certain times - usually segregated by age and ability.  I have no idea if there were gender segregated classes as I was a kid, but I wouldn't have cared.  Nor would I have cared if they were a group of fat women.  Or Jewish.  Or Muslim.  The Y does good things for many people - they serve their communities and answer their unique needs.
> 
> What is so horrible about a women-only swim hour, in those communities where there is a substantial demographic - that the Y must be damned for offering something that they can participate in, that is beneficial to their health and offers something postive that you must be so vile about?  Why shouldn't Orthodox Jewish women be allowed that?  Why shouldn't traditional Muslim women be allowed that?  Or even any women for whom an intimate aquaintenceship with spandex be a humiliating affair?  There's room in our society for all of this and to *meet everyone's needs.
> *  For gosh sakes - it's a Christian (and I'm betting a Jewish and Muslim) value.
> 
> Why not?  I don't get it
Click to expand...

YMCA - Young Men's Christian Association   Established 1844

YWCA - Young Women's Christian Association  Established 1855


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Katzndogz said:


> It's true.  Starting with the very smallest things, sharia law is insinuating itself throughout the US.   It started the same way in the UK.  An hour's swimming where men were not permitted.  Now the windows into  women's indoor pools have dark tinted glass.
> 
> Swimmers forced to exercise in darkness 'to protect dignity of Muslims' by council which blacked-out windows | Mail Online
> 
> On the one hand, the sight of a Christmas Tree once a year causes outrage among liberals, but the religious sensibilities of muslims must be protected at all times.
> 
> Sharia law is creeping across the country, apparently with the full approval of the left.



KatzenCreep is right. 

We're seeing signs of it everywhere - trashing the First Amendment by religion radicals who are against the very core beliefs that our country was founded on - equal rights for all Americans. 

Its disgusting the way these sneaks are working to take marriage equality away from Americans. And they way they peek in our bedroom windows to try to catch someone doing something completely normal and natural but that doesn't go along with their uptight and unnatural desires that no sex ever take place except for reproduction. 

But they're sneaky about that too. They want women pregnant but they hate babies and children. Let those mewling little monsters go hungry, right? Just ask any of the religious right and they'll tell you that "she" should have kept her legs closed and that the father has no responsibility at all. 

We need to keep a close watch on these sickos who want to end our Constitution, right, KatzenCreep?

(You're welcome to your xmas tree, twit but we'll never hear you agreeing that all Americans have Constitutionally-guaranteed equal rights, will we? Hypocrite.)

As to the OP, as always, its damn funny that Fox and its watchers bow down to a MUSLIM who controls the programming.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

tinydancer said:


> Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour



tiny dancer ???

is that really you???

can't be.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillReadmore said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is nothing in this thread that says what women wear when there are no men around.
> 
> Nice ad hom, though!
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't.  They are asking men to be forbidden, and Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire.  No, there isn't.  These Muslim women are going to show up in see-through mesh bikinis.  What a dumbkoff!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From what I have read and heard, traditional Muslim women dress very differently in their own households amongst their own family members - it's when they are under the eyes of non-family males  in the public sphere, that they dress conservatively.  Among women - it's very different.  Am I wrong about this?
> 
> I seriously doubt they will be swimming in full body coverings in a class of only women unless it's their personal choice.
Click to expand...

Yes, suddenly these women that come from very religious families who follow Shariah law, will be showing up with Bikinis for their swim lessons at the local Y.  Ha ha ha.  Keep telling yourself that.


----------



## Luddly Neddite

Whitehall 





> Low information lefties rely on the tax exempt Media Matters for their daily dose of hatred so much that they lost sight of the difference between news, news analysis, open discussion forums and even satire. Fox and Friends is not news. It isn't even news analysis. It's a free for all morning discussion and a favorite surveillance by the tax exempt Media Matters clone "News Hounds" "we watch Fox so you don't have to". What ever the Fox babe said is magnified by the left wing hate blogs.



The link is to a Raw Story link but I doubt anyone thinks Fox News has anything in common with "news". They're like lushbo, drudge, jones, beck - just hot air with no facts. 

BTW, can anyone say why having a private hour at the swimming pool "proves Sharia law is &#8216;changing everything&#8217;?

Its not as though they would be the first to have private time in the pool. Indeed, most pool time is allotted to one group or another - kids, oldsters with arthritis and so on. 

Is that proof that the Methodists are taking over?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There isn't.  They are asking men to be forbidden, and Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire.  No, there isn't.  These Muslim women are going to show up in see-through mesh bikinis.  What a dumbkoff!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what I have read and heard, traditional Muslim women dress very differently in their own households amongst their own family members - it's when they are under the eyes of non-family males  in the public sphere, that they dress conservatively.  Among women - it's very different.  Am I wrong about this?
> 
> I seriously doubt they will be swimming in full body coverings in a class of only women unless it's their personal choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, suddenly these women that come from very religious families who follow Shariah law, will be showing up with Bikinis for their swim lessons at the local Y.  Ha ha ha.  Keep telling yourself that.
Click to expand...


Again, Roudy - just provide an article or something that backs your claim up: "They are asking men to be forbidden, and *Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire*. "

Should be easy.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> From what I have read and heard, traditional Muslim women dress very differently in their own households amongst their own family members - it's when they are under the eyes of non-family males  in the public sphere, that they dress conservatively.  Among women - it's very different.  Am I wrong about this?
> 
> I seriously doubt they will be swimming in full body coverings in a class of only women unless it's their personal choice.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, suddenly these women that come from very religious families who follow Shariah law, will be showing up with Bikinis for their swim lessons at the local Y.  Ha ha ha.  Keep telling yourself that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, Roudy - just provide an article or something that backs your claim up: "They are asking men to be forbidden, and *Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire*. "
> 
> Should be easy.
Click to expand...

Yawn.  Find someone your own intellect to argue with.  I said what I said and it's true.  Can you tell me one more activity the Y discriminates like this, over religious based belief?  No.  Instead you want to play petty gotcha games.  

Show me it  WHERE says they WON'T be showing up with Islamic swim attire.  Logic would clearly dictate that they will.  But not in the delusional mind of an Islam apologist.  Here we go another thread with Coyote in it.  It seems all you ever do is just scour the board just looking for ways to justify barbarism.  Is there a thread where you're not defending Islamic behavior?  CREEP.

Now watch the Islam defender squeal.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, suddenly these women that come from very religious families who follow Shariah law, will be showing up with Bikinis for their swim lessons at the local Y.  Ha ha ha.  Keep telling yourself that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, Roudy - just provide an article or something that backs your claim up: "They are asking men to be forbidden, and *Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire*. "
> 
> Should be easy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yawn.  Find someone your own intellect to argue with.  I said what I said and it's true.  Can you tell me one more activity the Y discriminates like this, over religious based belief?  No.  Instead you want to play petty gotcha games.
> 
> Show me it  WHERE says they WON'T be showing up with Islamic swim attire.  Logic would clearly dictate that they will.  But not in the delusional mind of an Islam apologist.  Here we go another thread with Coyote in it.  It seems all you ever do is just scour the board just looking for ways to justify barbarism.  Is there a thread where you're not defending Islamic behavior?  CREEP.
> 
> Now watch the Islam defender squeal.
Click to expand...


Now you're being ridiculous - *you made a claim Roudy, you prove it.*  If you can't, well - be honest.

Thus far all you've done is demonstrate an ability to duck, weave, dodge and fling monkey poop hoping some of it will stick.

I'll repeat the question:

Again, Roudy - just provide an article or something that backs your claim up: "They are asking men to be forbidden, and *Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire. *"


----------



## WillReadmore

Hossfly said:


> YMCA - Young Men's Christian Association   Established 1844
> 
> YWCA - Young Women's Christian Association  Established 1855



The YMCA says:
"The Y is made up of people of all ages and from every walk of life working side by side to  strengthen communities. Together we work to ensure everyone, regardless of gender, income, faith, sexual orientation or cultural background, has the opportunity to live life to its fullest. We share the values of caring, honesty, respect and responsibilityeverything we do stems from it."

Your "Christians first" attitude is NOT a value shared by the YMCA.


----------



## WillReadmore

Roudy said:


> Yes, suddenly these women that come from very religious families who follow Shariah law, will be showing up with Bikinis for their swim lessons at the local Y.  Ha ha ha.  Keep telling yourself that.



So, why are you so fixated on their swimwear and on being allowed to watch the girls swim?

You're sounding profoundly pervy.


----------



## Roudy

WillReadmore said:


> Hossfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> YMCA - Young Men's Christian Association   Established 1844
> 
> YWCA - Young Women's Christian Association  Established 1855
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The YMCA says:
> "The Y is made up of people of all ages and from every walk of life working side by side to  strengthen communities. Together we work to ensure everyone, regardless of gender, income, faith, sexual orientation or cultural background, has the opportunity to live life to its fullest. We share the values of caring, honesty, respect and responsibilityeverything we do stems from it."
> 
> Your "Christians first" attitude is NOT a value shared by the YMCA.
Click to expand...

Oh really?  Current YMCA website:

 Our Impact is Felt Every Day

With a mission to put* Christian *principles into practice through programs that build a healthy spirit, mind and body for all, our impact is felt when an individual makes a healthy choice, when a mentor inspires a child and when a community comes together for the common good.


----------



## Roudy

WillReadmore said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, suddenly these women that come from very religious families who follow Shariah law, will be showing up with Bikinis for their swim lessons at the local Y.  Ha ha ha.  Keep telling yourself that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, why are you so fixated on their swimwear and on being allowed to watch the girls swim?
> 
> You're sounding profoundly pervy.
Click to expand...

Do you think that stupid question deserves an answer?


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again, Roudy - just provide an article or something that backs your claim up: "They are asking men to be forbidden, and *Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire*. "
> 
> Should be easy.
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn.  Find someone your own intellect to argue with.  I said what I said and it's true.  Can you tell me one more activity the Y discriminates like this, over religious based belief?  No.  Instead you want to play petty gotcha games.
> 
> Show me it  WHERE says they WON'T be showing up with Islamic swim attire.  Logic would clearly dictate that they will.  But not in the delusional mind of an Islam apologist.  Here we go another thread with Coyote in it.  It seems all you ever do is just scour the board just looking for ways to justify barbarism.  Is there a thread where you're not defending Islamic behavior?  CREEP.
> 
> Now watch the Islam defender squeal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now you're being ridiculous - *you made a claim Roudy, you prove it.*  If you can't, well - be honest.
> 
> Thus far all you've done is demonstrate an ability to duck, weave, dodge and fling monkey poop hoping some of it will stick.
> 
> I'll repeat the question:
> 
> Again, Roudy - just provide an article or something that backs your claim up: "They are asking men to be forbidden, and *Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire. *"
Click to expand...

Can you prove they aren't?  Of course not. Read the sentence again, ass kisser of Islamists:

They (as in Muslims) are asking men to be forbidden, <true statement>
 and (they are asking ) Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire <true again>

Get lost, mental midget.


----------



## Indofred

Latin Dance Fitness for Women (Bronxville , NY) - Meetup

and a million other women's groups that hold women only sessions.

and, just for the real idiots on the forum, the ones who tell us how Muslims want their laws for everyone and make out as if women's groups are just to pander to Muslims; have a Jewish women's group.

Fucking Jews, eh, Roudy - they're forcing their religious laws on everyone by having women's meetings.

NYC and Hamptons Jewish Single Professional Women 30-37 (New York , NY) - Meetup

The stupidity of this thread and the posters who are supporting that stupidity is astounding.
There are many women's groups of all flavours, for a lot of reasons.

One is seen to be Muslims and the idiots go stupid.


----------



## High_Gravity

tinydancer said:


> Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour.



Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.


----------



## Sunni Man

High_Gravity said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
Click to expand...

Naw, just 1 hour will be fine. 

But thanks anyway........


----------



## Luddly Neddite

High_Gravity said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
Click to expand...


Are there are any other groups of Americans you believe should not be allowed to swim, in private, at the Y?

Americans with arthritis? 
American kids taking swimming lessons?
Americans doing post-op exercise?
Americans swimming for fun?
(oops the Muslim women would probably be in that category)


----------



## High_Gravity

Luddly Neddite said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are there are any other groups of Americans you believe should not be allowed to swim, in private, at the Y?
> 
> Americans with arthritis?
> American kids taking swimming lessons?
> Americans doing post-op exercise?
> Americans swimming for fun?
> (oops the Muslim women would probably be in that category)
Click to expand...


Nice try.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice To all YMCA Members:​Starting next week Shariah Workouts in headscarfs and burka's at the Y, no men allowed, will start from 10 AM to 2 PM Mondays and Wednesdays.  During these "women only workouts" <wink wink> men are not allowed in the gym / equipment area.  Men who are traversing to other areas of the gym should be considerate of the Muslim women working out, and should not look at the women.  Those who do, do so at your own peril.
> 
> The Minnesota YMCA thanks you for your cooperation and continued patronage.
> 
> Allah Akbar!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can see your argument is crumbling.
> 
> Instead of talking about the situation at hand logically and honestly (1 hour a week open to all women), lets completely exaggerate the example with absolutely zero evidence in a futile attempt to make it look like the YMCA is going to become some sort of a Mosque. Bullshit, Roudy. Complete bullshit.
> 
> And I'll tell you what, if the YMCA wanted to actually do that, it's their right to do so. Doubt it though, because it'd be a horrible business decision.
Click to expand...


Actually the example I provided is totally applicable and possible. If you're going to exclude men at the Y from entering or using one area of the facility due to Muslim sensitivities, why not other areas?  What is the difference between the pool and the weight / gym area?  None absolutely. 

I don't even know if you have an argument for it to crumble.  It's basically "let's show how tolerant we are, by appeasing the intolerants"


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
Click to expand...

And why not the weight and machine area as well. Give these Muslim women their space!  It's the Y's business how they run it. During those hours the men can just show up for showers and the basketball courts, if any.


----------



## Roudy

Indofred said:


> Latin Dance Fitness for Women (Bronxville , NY) - Meetup
> 
> and a million other women's groups that hold women only sessions.
> 
> and, just for the real idiots on the forum, the ones who tell us how Muslims want their laws for everyone and make out as if women's groups are just to pander to Muslims; have a Jewish women's group.
> 
> Fucking Jews, eh, Roudy - they're forcing their religious laws on everyone by having women's meetings.
> 
> NYC and Hamptons Jewish Single Professional Women 30-37 (New York , NY) - Meetup
> 
> The stupidity of this thread and the posters who are supporting that stupidity is astounding.
> There are many women's groups of all flavours, for a lot of reasons.
> 
> One is seen to be Muslims and the idiots go stupid.


Congratulations, another moron just found a totally irrelevant example to post.


----------



## Againsheila

Luddly Neddite said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are there are any other groups of Americans you believe should not be allowed to swim, in private, at the Y?
> 
> Americans with arthritis?
> American kids taking swimming lessons?
> Americans doing post-op exercise?
> Americans swimming for fun?
> *(oops the Muslim women would probably be in that category)*
Click to expand...


Then why have a special class just for them?


----------



## Roudy

Luddly Neddite said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are there are any other groups of Americans you believe should not be allowed to swim, in private, at the Y?
> 
> Americans with arthritis?
> American kids taking swimming lessons?
> Americans doing post-op exercise?
> Americans swimming for fun?
> (oops the Muslim women would probably be in that category)
Click to expand...

All those groups are currently swimming at the Y! WHILE THE OTHER MEMBERS ARE SWIMMING AS WELL.  They always leave two lanes open for all members, while these private classes are being being held. Pools are never closed off entirely to one group unless it's a swim meet that the Y is hosting.


----------



## Katzndogz

High_Gravity said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there are any other groups of Americans you believe should not be allowed to swim, in private, at the Y?
> 
> Americans with arthritis?
> American kids taking swimming lessons?
> Americans doing post-op exercise?
> Americans swimming for fun?
> (oops the Muslim women would probably be in that category)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try.
Click to expand...


When Americans with arthritis are swimming can someone who doesn't have arthritis enter the pool area?

If Kids are taking swimming lessons, can adults not enter the pool area.

If someone is swimming for fun, is a workman prohibited from entering the pool area?

If muslim women are using the pool are men prohibited from entering the pool area?

There you go.  Answer those questions and you see what is happening.

If muslim women are using the pool doesn't it make sense to black out the windows so that men cannot look into the pool area?   If this is a space designated for women only, shouldn't men be excluded from the building so as not to result in some inadvertent, or deliberate spying?

Start small, end big.


----------



## Roudy

Katzndogz said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are there are any other groups of Americans you believe should not be allowed to swim, in private, at the Y?
> 
> Americans with arthritis?
> American kids taking swimming lessons?
> Americans doing post-op exercise?
> Americans swimming for fun?
> (oops the Muslim women would probably be in that category)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Americans with arthritis are swimming can someone who doesn't have arthritis enter the pool area?
> 
> If Kids are taking swimming lessons, can adults not enter the pool area.
> 
> If someone is swimming for fun, is a workman prohibited from entering the pool area?
> 
> If muslim women are using the pool are men prohibited from entering the pool area?
> 
> There you go.  Answer those questions and you see what is happening.
> 
> If muslim women are using the pool doesn't it make sense to black out the windows so that men cannot look into the pool area?   If this is a space designated for women only, shouldn't men be excluded from the building so as not to result in some inadvertent, or deliberate spying?
> 
> Start small, end big.
Click to expand...

It's called Creeping Shariah.  Shariah hours, Shariah courts, Shariah neighborhoods, Shariah days, Shariah clothes, Shariah laws in the neighborhoods.  It always starts small and by the time you realize what's happening it's already too late. This has happened in almost every European country.


----------



## KevinWestern

Katzndogz said:


> If Kids are taking swimming lessons, can adults not enter the pool area.


This is up to the owners of the pool. 



Katzndogz said:


> If someone is swimming for fun, is a workman prohibited from entering the pool area?


This is up to the owners of the pool.



Katzndogz said:


> If muslim women are using the pool are men prohibited from entering the pool area?


This is up to the owners of the pool. 




Katzndogz said:


> If muslim women are using the pool doesn't it make sense to black out the windows so that men cannot look into the pool area?   If this is a space designated for women only, shouldn't men be excluded from the building so as not to result in some inadvertent, or deliberate spying?


This is up to the owners of the pool.


See the pattern?


----------



## KevinWestern

Againsheila said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there are any other groups of Americans you believe should not be allowed to swim, in private, at the Y?
> 
> Americans with arthritis?
> American kids taking swimming lessons?
> Americans doing post-op exercise?
> Americans swimming for fun?
> *(oops the Muslim women would probably be in that category)*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then why have a special class just for them?
Click to expand...


Don't ask us, talk to the people who own the pool. They can do whatever they want, include remove the pool so that no one can use it, or only open it for one hour a day for women who are older than 75 years. 

It's up to them.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Notice To all YMCA Members:​Starting next week Shariah Workouts in headscarfs and burka's at the Y, no men allowed, will start from 10 AM to 2 PM Mondays and Wednesdays.  During these "women only workouts" <wink wink> men are not allowed in the gym / equipment area.  Men who are traversing to other areas of the gym should be considerate of the Muslim women working out, and should not look at the women.  Those who do, do so at your own peril.
> 
> The Minnesota YMCA thanks you for your cooperation and continued patronage.
> 
> Allah Akbar!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can see your argument is crumbling.
> 
> Instead of talking about the situation at hand logically and honestly (1 hour a week open to all women), lets completely exaggerate the example with absolutely zero evidence in a futile attempt to make it look like the YMCA is going to become some sort of a Mosque. Bullshit, Roudy. Complete bullshit.
> 
> And I'll tell you what, if the YMCA wanted to actually do that, it's their right to do so. Doubt it though, because it'd be a horrible business decision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually the example I provided is totally applicable and possible. If you're going to exclude men at the Y from entering or using one area of the facility due to Muslim sensitivities, why not other areas?  What is the difference between the pool and the weight / gym area?  None absolutely.
> 
> I don't even know if you have an argument for it to crumble.  It's basically "let's show how tolerant we are, by appeasing the intolerants"
Click to expand...


No - your example is completely exaggerated and not realistic (and you know this). 

One hour of the week is currently reserved for a "women's only" swim class. There is no dress requirement during that swim time. That's all the information you and I know, and nothing (absolutely nothing) has hinted that the owners of the Y are planning on enforcing an overall dress code (or dress code at all), or will extend this out to different areas of the Y in significant fashion (ie 4-6 hr blocks of time). No evidence at all, Roudy.

One thing I hate is a deliberately dishonest poster.

If you're not just making up things than put your money where your mouth is and show us the backup! Maybe a transcript of a conversation where the owner said "yes, I'm thinking of making the entire facility bow to the rules of sharia law on an expansive scale, despite it being bad for business", etc. 

Show us and I'll shut up. Otherwise you're just making up sh$t.


----------



## Esmeralda

The pool in my building has ladies only hours 3 times a week and a ladies only gym. Has nothing to do with anything except that a lot of women prefer to swim and workout without men oogling or staring at them.  The gym I belonged to in Austria also had a ladies' only workout room.  This is typical in many places, many countries, and has nothing to do with any religion.  It is because the business wants to attract female customers who do not want to work out or swim with men 'watching' every move they make.  I was in the elevator yesterday, and a female resident was there with her girlfriend telling her about the attributes of the building. She told her about the pool having ladies' hours, and they were both obviously impressed by that. This is two young women who happened to be black.  It is something a lot of women want, and business owners cater to what customers want.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If Kids are taking swimming lessons, can adults not enter the pool area.
> 
> 
> 
> This is up to the owners of the pool.
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If someone is swimming for fun, is a workman prohibited from entering the pool area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is up to the owners of the pool.
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If muslim women are using the pool are men prohibited from entering the pool area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is up to the owners of the pool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> If muslim women are using the pool doesn't it make sense to black out the windows so that men cannot look into the pool area?   If this is a space designated for women only, shouldn't men be excluded from the building so as not to result in some inadvertent, or deliberate spying?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This is up to the owners of the pool.
> 
> 
> See the pattern?
Click to expand...

The pool does not have "owners" it's a company and the branches are operating making independent decisions while holding true to the principles of the establishment. Closing off the pool to all men or any group to appease Muslim sensitivities, IS NOT consistent with the company policies. 

Someone needs to get fired here, someone needs to be fired here, see the pattern?  

And if enough people raise their voices, SOMEONE WILL.  That's how things work.


----------



## Roudy

Esmeralda said:


> The pool in my building has ladies only hours 3 times a week and a ladies only gym. Has nothing to do with anything except that a lot of women prefer to swim and workout without men oogling or staring at them.  The gym I belonged to in Austria also had a ladies' only workout room.  This is typical in many places, many countries, and has nothing to do with any religion.  It is because the business wants to attract female customers who do not want to work out or swim with men 'watching' every move they make.  I was in the elevator yesterday, and a female resident was there with her girlfriend telling her about the attributes of the building. She told her about the pool having ladies' hours, and they were both obviously impressed by that. This is two young women who happened to be black.  It is something a lot of women want, and business owners cater to what customers want.


Yes, those are possible in private establishments. When you become a member at the Y, as I have in the past, you want SOME access to the pool and gym areas during business hours for all members. That's what you're paying for. And that's how it was when I was a member. The pool was never entirely closed.  If I showed up to swim, and there was some type of class, there was at least two lanes open.  I know as a fact that people would complain if they had no access to the pool. Many times I witnessed people complaining to the lifeguard why so many lanes were closed to classes and why more lanes aren't open to regular members.

As I said this Y was clearly violating the rules, in order to appease Muslim sensitivities.


----------



## Esmeralda

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> The pool in my building has ladies only hours 3 times a week and a ladies only gym. Has nothing to do with anything except that a lot of women prefer to swim and workout without men oogling or staring at them.  The gym I belonged to in Austria also had a ladies' only workout room.  This is typical in many places, many countries, and has nothing to do with any religion.  It is because the business wants to attract female customers who do not want to work out or swim with men 'watching' every move they make.  I was in the elevator yesterday, and a female resident was there with her girlfriend telling her about the attributes of the building. She told her about the pool having ladies' hours, and they were both obviously impressed by that. This is two young women who happened to be black.  It is something a lot of women want, and business owners cater to what customers want.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, those are possible in private establishments. When you become a member at the Y, as I have in the past, you want SOME access to the pool and gym areas during business hours for all members. That's what you're paying for. And that's how it was when I was a member. The pool was never entirely closed.  If I showed to to swim, and there was some type of class, there was at least two lanes open.  I know as a fact that people would complain if they had no access to the pool. Many times I witnessed people complaining to the lifeguard why so many lanes were closed to classes and why more lanes aren't open to regular members.
Click to expand...


The YMCA is not a public institution. It is a private 'establishment.'  Not part of the government, not supported by tax dollars. Private.  The YMCA is a private, non-profit, international Christian organization.  It is not a 'public' organization and not owned or controlled by the US government.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> The pool does not have "owners" it's a company



Companies have owners, lol. 



Roudy said:


> and the branches are operating making independent decisions while holding true to the principles of the establishment. Closing off the pool to all men or any group to appease Muslim sensitivities, IS NOT consistent with the company policies.


Quit making up things Roudy, please. Let's stick to what we know:

1.) Someone owns the pool who is NOT you
2.) This story was national news, so we can assume the pool owners are well aware of the situation
3.) If they are upset they can fire the operators. To my knowledge, no one has been fired yet.

That's it. 

And just so I can understand better, which portion of the company policy (which you seem to be an expert on) does a "women's only" swim class for 1 hr a week violate? 

You claim it violates policy, so put your money where your mouth is and SHOW ME.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can see your argument is crumbling.
> 
> Instead of talking about the situation at hand logically and honestly (1 hour a week open to all women), lets completely exaggerate the example with absolutely zero evidence in a futile attempt to make it look like the YMCA is going to become some sort of a Mosque. Bullshit, Roudy. Complete bullshit.
> 
> And I'll tell you what, if the YMCA wanted to actually do that, it's their right to do so. Doubt it though, because it'd be a horrible business decision.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the example I provided is totally applicable and possible. If you're going to exclude men at the Y from entering or using one area of the facility due to Muslim sensitivities, why not other areas?  What is the difference between the pool and the weight / gym area?  None absolutely.
> 
> I don't even know if you have an argument for it to crumble.  It's basically "let's show how tolerant we are, by appeasing the intolerants"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No - your example is completely exaggerated and not realistic (and you know this).
> 
> One hour of the week is currently reserved for a "women's only" swim class. There is no dress requirement during that swim time. That's all the information you and I know, and nothing (absolutely nothing) has hinted that the owners of the Y are planning on enforcing an overall dress code (or dress code at all), or will extend this out to different areas of the Y in significant fashion (ie 4-6 hr blocks of time). No evidence at all, Roudy.
> 
> One thing I hate is a deliberately dishonest poster.
> 
> If you're not just making up things than put your money where your mouth is and show us the backup! Maybe a transcript of a conversation where the owner said "yes, I'm thinking of making the entire facility bow to the rules of sharia law on an expansive scale, despite it being bad for business", etc.
> 
> Show us and I'll shut up. Otherwise you're just making up sh$t.
Click to expand...

No men at the pool is okay but no men at the gym area is not?  Why the pool and not the gym area?


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Yes, those are possible in private establishments. When you become a member at the Y, as I have in the past, you want SOME access to the pool and gym areas during business hours for all members. That's what you're paying for. And that's how it was when I was a member. The pool was never entirely closed.  If I showed up to swim, and there was some type of class, there was at least two lanes open.  I know as a fact that people would complain if they had no access to the pool. Many times I witnessed people complaining to the lifeguard why so many lanes were closed to classes and why more lanes aren't open to regular members.
> 
> As I said this Y was clearly violating the rules, in order to appease Muslim sensitivities.



Just because the Y you happened to be a member of "always had pool access" doesn't mean all YMCAs - 2,600 nationwide - must abide by the same policy. This is not sound logic. It's perfectly lawful for the YMCA to run each of those 2,600 facilities in different ways if they want to.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the example I provided is totally applicable and possible. If you're going to exclude men at the Y from entering or using one area of the facility due to Muslim sensitivities, why not other areas?  What is the difference between the pool and the weight / gym area?  None absolutely.
> 
> I don't even know if you have an argument for it to crumble.  It's basically "let's show how tolerant we are, by appeasing the intolerants"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No - your example is completely exaggerated and not realistic (and you know this).
> 
> One hour of the week is currently reserved for a "women's only" swim class. There is no dress requirement during that swim time. That's all the information you and I know, and nothing (absolutely nothing) has hinted that the owners of the Y are planning on enforcing an overall dress code (or dress code at all), or will extend this out to different areas of the Y in significant fashion (ie 4-6 hr blocks of time). No evidence at all, Roudy.
> 
> One thing I hate is a deliberately dishonest poster.
> 
> If you're not just making up things than put your money where your mouth is and show us the backup! Maybe a transcript of a conversation where the owner said "yes, I'm thinking of making the entire facility bow to the rules of sharia law on an expansive scale, despite it being bad for business", etc.
> 
> Show us and I'll shut up. Otherwise you're just making up sh$t.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No men at the pool is okay but no men at the gym area is not?  Why the pool and not the gym area?
Click to expand...


No men in the gym area is fine too if the company decides that's what they want to do. Heck, they could make an "aliens only" gym for extraterrestrial life only if they wanted to. However...

My point is, there is absolutely not a shred of evidence - anywhere - suggesting the YMCA in St. Paul (or any of the other 2,600 locations) is planning to install a "women's only workout hours" to cater to the Muslim community. 

Zero evidence. I'm just telling you to quit exaggerating and making things up.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The pool does not have "owners" it's a company
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Companies have owners, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> and the branches are operating making independent decisions while holding true to the principles of the establishment. Closing off the pool to all men or any group to appease Muslim sensitivities, IS NOT consistent with the company policies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quit making up things Roudy, please. Let's stick to what we know:
> 
> 1.) Someone owns the pool who is NOT you
> 2.) This story was national news, so we can assume the pool owners are well aware of the situation
> 3.) If they are upset they can fire the operators. To my knowledge, no one has been fired yet.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> And just so I can understand better, which portion of the company policy (which you seem to be an expert on) does a "women's only" swim class for 1 hr a week violate?
> 
> You claim it violates policy, so put your money where your mouth is and SHOW ME.
Click to expand...

The pool is owned by a nationwide company with thousands branches in cities and neighborhoods across the country.  It is not an individual owner. This specific Y should not have closed the pool off to men in order to appease Muslim sensitivities. It is against the company policy and he / she should have gotten his ass fired.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, those are possible in private establishments. When you become a member at the Y, as I have in the past, you want SOME access to the pool and gym areas during business hours for all members. That's what you're paying for. And that's how it was when I was a member. The pool was never entirely closed.  If I showed up to swim, and there was some type of class, there was at least two lanes open.  I know as a fact that people would complain if they had no access to the pool. Many times I witnessed people complaining to the lifeguard why so many lanes were closed to classes and why more lanes aren't open to regular members.
> 
> As I said this Y was clearly violating the rules, in order to appease Muslim sensitivities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because the Y you happened to be a member of "always had pool access" doesn't mean all YMCAs - 2,600 nationwide - must abide by the same policy. This is not sound logic. It's perfectly lawful for the YMCA to run each of those 2,600 facilities in different ways if they want to.
Click to expand...

No dipweed, people are paying pretty good money every month to have access to the pool and gym facilities whenever they show up. That's the nationwide policy, period. If I was there during peak hours, where there was also a class being held, and those open lanes were crowded, then I'd just wait my turn.  This Y's management made decisions inconsistent with the Y general policy.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> The pool is owned by a nationwide company with thousands branches in cities and neighborhoods across the country.  It is not an individual owner. This specific Y should not have closed the pool off to men in order to appease Muslim sensitivities. It is against the company policy and he / she should have gotten his ass fired.



SOMEBODY holds the final decision to how that pool is operated. Whether it's the President, CEO, or majority owner - I don't know - but someone ultimately has the final say on how that pool operates.

And second, I will politely ask again; WHICH LINE IN THE COMPANY POLICY does the "women's only" swim class for one hour a week violate? You say it violates the policy, so show us. That's a fair ask.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yawn.  Find someone your own intellect to argue with.  I said what I said and it's true.  Can you tell me one more activity the Y discriminates like this, over religious based belief?  No.  Instead you want to play petty gotcha games.
> 
> Show me it  WHERE says they WON'T be showing up with Islamic swim attire.  Logic would clearly dictate that they will.  But not in the delusional mind of an Islam apologist.  Here we go another thread with Coyote in it.  It seems all you ever do is just scour the board just looking for ways to justify barbarism.  Is there a thread where you're not defending Islamic behavior?  CREEP.
> 
> Now watch the Islam defender squeal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're being ridiculous - *you made a claim Roudy, you prove it.*  If you can't, well - be honest.
> 
> Thus far all you've done is demonstrate an ability to duck, weave, dodge and fling monkey poop hoping some of it will stick.
> 
> I'll repeat the question:
> 
> Again, Roudy - just provide an article or something that backs your claim up: "They are asking men to be forbidden, and *Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire. *"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you prove they aren't?  Of course not. Read the sentence again, ass kisser of Islamists:
> 
> They (as in Muslims) are asking men to be forbidden, <true statement>
> and (they are asking ) Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire <true again>
> 
> Get lost, mental midget.
Click to expand...


Facts:

"They" - women - *have been given* women only swim session where men are excluded.

If you read the OP (you did right?) - it states that this was a cooperative enterprise between the local police department and the Y.  Nowhere does it state they "asked" for anything.

Nowhere does it say anything about these Somali's "asking" for anything so let's get that straight.

Second, your statement:  _and (they are asking ) Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire <true again>_

There is no evidence they are asking this, please provide it.  Or are you making this up?


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, those are possible in private establishments. When you become a member at the Y, as I have in the past, you want SOME access to the pool and gym areas during business hours for all members. That's what you're paying for. And that's how it was when I was a member. The pool was never entirely closed.  If I showed up to swim, and there was some type of class, there was at least two lanes open.  I know as a fact that people would complain if they had no access to the pool. Many times I witnessed people complaining to the lifeguard why so many lanes were closed to classes and why more lanes aren't open to regular members.
> 
> As I said this Y was clearly violating the rules, in order to appease Muslim sensitivities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because the Y you happened to be a member of "always had pool access" doesn't mean all YMCAs - 2,600 nationwide - must abide by the same policy. This is not sound logic. It's perfectly lawful for the YMCA to run each of those 2,600 facilities in different ways if they want to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No dipweed, people are paying pretty good money every month to have access to the pool and gym facilities whenever they show up. That's the nationwide policy, period. If I was there during peak hours, where there was also a class being held, and those open lanes were crowded, then I'd just wait my turn.
Click to expand...


So, you're saying there is ONE NATIONWIDE policy that specifies EXACTLY how each of the pools throughout the 2,600 facilities MUST operate?

Show us, please.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> No - your example is completely exaggerated and not realistic (and you know this).
> 
> One hour of the week is currently reserved for a "women's only" swim class. There is no dress requirement during that swim time. That's all the information you and I know, and nothing (absolutely nothing) has hinted that the owners of the Y are planning on enforcing an overall dress code (or dress code at all), or will extend this out to different areas of the Y in significant fashion (ie 4-6 hr blocks of time). No evidence at all, Roudy.
> 
> One thing I hate is a deliberately dishonest poster.
> 
> If you're not just making up things than put your money where your mouth is and show us the backup! Maybe a transcript of a conversation where the owner said "yes, I'm thinking of making the entire facility bow to the rules of sharia law on an expansive scale, despite it being bad for business", etc.
> 
> Show us and I'll shut up. Otherwise you're just making up sh$t.
> 
> 
> 
> No men at the pool is okay but no men at the gym area is not?  Why the pool and not the gym area?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No men in the gym area is fine too if the company decides that's what they want to do. Heck, they could make an "aliens only" gym for extraterrestrial life only if they wanted to. However...
> 
> My point is, there is absolutely not a shred of evidence - anywhere - suggesting the YMCA in St. Paul (or any of the other 2,600 locations) is planning to install a "women's only workout hours" to cater to the Muslim community.
> 
> Zero evidence. I'm just telling you to quit exaggerating and making things up.
Click to expand...

No men in the gym is fine too?  Ha ha ha. I rest my case. 

No more questions, your honor.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you're being ridiculous - *you made a claim Roudy, you prove it.*  If you can't, well - be honest.
> 
> Thus far all you've done is demonstrate an ability to duck, weave, dodge and fling monkey poop hoping some of it will stick.
> 
> I'll repeat the question:
> 
> Again, Roudy - just provide an article or something that backs your claim up: "They are asking men to be forbidden, and *Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire. *"
> 
> 
> 
> Can you prove they aren't?  Of course not. Read the sentence again, ass kisser of Islamists:
> 
> They (as in Muslims) are asking men to be forbidden, <true statement>
> and (they are asking ) Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire <true again>
> 
> Get lost, mental midget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Facts:
> 
> "They" - women - *have been given* women only swim session where men are excluded.
> 
> If you read the OP (you did right?) - it states that this was a cooperative enterprise between the local police department and the Y.  Nowhere does it state they "asked" for anything.
> 
> Nowhere does it say anything about these Somali's "asking" for anything so let's get that straight.
> 
> Second, your statement:  _and (they are asking ) Muslim women to be shariah compliant swimming attire <true again>_
> 
> There is no evidence they are asking this, please provide it.  Or are you making this up?
Click to expand...

They haven't been given no men allowed lessons at the Y in the past.

As far as the rest of your question re attire asked and answered ten times.

Rest assured, some members at the Y must have gotten pretty pissed off and complained, for it to have gotten national media attention like this. And this is not the only country this bullshit is happening.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there are any other groups of Americans you believe should not be allowed to swim, in private, at the Y?
> 
> Americans with arthritis?
> American kids taking swimming lessons?
> Americans doing post-op exercise?
> Americans swimming for fun?
> (oops the Muslim women would probably be in that category)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nice try.
Click to expand...


But no answer.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> No men in the gym is fine too?  Ha ha ha. I rest my case.
> 
> No more questions, your honor.



I don't normally call people morons, but when I do... it's when I'm talking with Roudy.

I said that IF THE COMPANY wants to setup a policy where no men are allowed in the gym then so be it; I have absolutely no say about what they do with the property they own. IF THE COMPANY wants to have a gym area where only snails can access they can do that too. 

Would I run my gym that way? Probably not; it'd be horrible for business (snails don't lift). But if the YMCA wants to do that, then I have no objections because it's not my place to object.

YOU CAN'T make decisions about things YOU DON'T OWN. 

.


----------



## KevinWestern

[MENTION=36154]Roudy[/MENTION] - You keep mentioning that a "one hour women's swim class" violates the company's policy and (therefore) someone should be fired.

Please show us what line of policy this is in violation of and we can go from there.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No men in the gym is fine too?  Ha ha ha. I rest my case.
> 
> No more questions, your honor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't normally call people morons, but when I do... it's when I'm talking with Roudy.
> 
> I said that IF THE COMPANY wants to setup a policy where no men are allowed in the gym then so be it; I have absolutely no say about what they do with the property they own.
> 
> Would I run my gym that way? Probably not; it'd be horrible for business. But if the YMCA wants to do that, then I have no objections because it's not my place to object.
> 
> YOU CAN'T make decisions about things YOU DON'T OWN.
> 
> .
Click to expand...

THIS COMPANY cannot setup no men allowed hours at the pool or the gym, under its current policy guidelines, and for which it is receiving monthly membership for, moron. Sure it could do that, and the. Face a class action lawsuit for fraud and criminal for discrimination.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> THIS COMPANY cannot setup no men allowed hours at the pool or the gym, under its current policy guidelines, and for which it is receiving monthly membership for, moron. Sure it could do that, and the. Face a class action lawsuit for fraud and criminal for discrimination.



WHAT POLICY line are you speaking of exactly, lol???


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> [MENTION=36154]Roudy[/MENTION] - You keep mentioning that a "one hour women's swim class" violates the company's policy and (therefore) someone should be fired.
> 
> Please show us what line of policy this is in violation of and we can go from there.


Ya right. People are paying monthly fees up to $100 or more in order to use their facilities such as the pool or gym whoever they want to.  That's what they advertise in order to entice people to become members. That is logical and goes with any health club.  

Talk about "moron".


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS COMPANY cannot setup no men allowed hours at the pool or the gym, under its current policy guidelines, and for which it is receiving monthly membership for, moron. Sure it could do that, and the. Face a class action lawsuit for fraud and criminal for discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT POLICY line are you speaking of exactly, lol???
Click to expand...

Easy use and access to their facilities at business hours for which they are getting membership dues for. You want to see it in writing?  Wow you are dumber than I thought.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=36154]Roudy[/MENTION] - You keep mentioning that a "one hour women's swim class" violates the company's policy and (therefore) someone should be fired.
> 
> Please show us what line of policy this is in violation of and we can go from there.
> 
> 
> 
> Ya right. People are paying monthly fees up to $100 or more in order to use their facilities such as the pool or gym whoever they want to.  That's what they advertise in order to entice people to become members. That is logical and goes with any health club.
> 
> Talk about "moron".
Click to expand...


Doesn't matter the least if people pay $100 or $100,000/month for the YMCA membership in St. Paul, what matters is whether or not the YMCA is violating a contractual agreement that states something along the lines  "ALL MEMBERS will have complete and absolute access to the pool during business hours". 

Do you have a copy of the contract people at the St. Paul's YMCA has people sign when they sign up?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No men at the pool is okay but no men at the gym area is not?  Why the pool and not the gym area?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No men in the gym area is fine too if the company decides that's what they want to do. Heck, they could make an "aliens only" gym for extraterrestrial life only if they wanted to. However...
> 
> My point is, there is absolutely not a shred of evidence - anywhere - suggesting the YMCA in St. Paul (or any of the other 2,600 locations) is planning to install a "women's only workout hours" to cater to the Muslim community.
> 
> Zero evidence. I'm just telling you to quit exaggerating and making things up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No men in the gym is fine too?  Ha ha ha. I rest my case.
> 
> No more questions, your honor.
Click to expand...


Roudy, private companies have a right to arrange things as they desire, within the law - they are privately owned, not publicaly owned.  If you, as a member, object to one hour a week women's only swim, then you can withdraw your support as a customer.

That's kind of how private enterprise works.


----------



## Coyote

St. Paul's YMCA membership benefits: https://www.ymcatwincities.org/membership/membership_benefits/


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> THIS COMPANY cannot setup no men allowed hours at the pool or the gym, under its current policy guidelines, and for which it is receiving monthly membership for, moron. Sure it could do that, and the. Face a class action lawsuit for fraud and criminal for discrimination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT POLICY line are you speaking of exactly, lol???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Easy use and access to their facilities at business hours for which they are getting membership dues for. You want to see it in writing?  Wow you are dumber than I thought.
Click to expand...


Yes, I do want to see that in writing. And since you're making the claim I'd need to see specifically what the contract at St. Paul's YMCA says. They're all going to be different.

Finally, one hour a week for a women's only swim class doesn't violate "easy use and access to their facilities" at business hours any more than a "senior's swim" would.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tinydancer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give the girls their hour. Please. It's just one hour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And why not the weight and machine area as well. Give these Muslim women their space!  It's the Y's business how they run it. During those hours the men can just show up for showers and the basketball courts, if any.
Click to expand...


Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Luddly Neddite said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are there are any other groups of Americans you believe should not be allowed to swim, in private, at the Y?
> 
> Americans with arthritis?
> American kids taking swimming lessons?
> Americans doing post-op exercise?
> Americans swimming for fun?
> (oops the Muslim women would probably be in that category)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But no answer.
Click to expand...


So having arthitis is the same as being a Muslim?


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.



Here's the thing High_Gravity and Roudy, at the end of the day you guys are upset that a private company is doing something with the property they own that you don't like. Tough luck. Go buy your own pool. 

I mean, none of you (to my knowledge) are even members at this specific St. Paul's club! Lol. 

To whine or not to whine, that is the question.......


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice try.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But no answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So having arthitis is the same as being a Muslim?
Click to expand...


or being a woman?

It's a woman's swim hour - any women. 

So, we get rid of senior swim, kid swim, handicapped swim - shoot, they all exclude people.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
> 
> 
> 
> And why not the weight and machine area as well. Give these Muslim women their space!  It's the Y's business how they run it. During those hours the men can just show up for showers and the basketball courts, if any.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.
Click to expand...


So...what are you saying here...co-ed locker rooms?


----------



## Katzndogz

The company, for whatever reason, has decided to give in to muslim demands.   It has the right to do that, thinking it will benefit them.   Once having gotten this demand met, there will be a new demand.  There will be new demands after that.   The company will slowly and incrementally make itself a company under full islamic control.

Then they will try and look back and wonder at what point would it have been appropriate to say no.


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the thing High_Gravity and Roudy, at the end of the day you guys are upset that a private company is doing something with the property they own that you don't like. Tough luck. Go buy your own pool.
> 
> I mean, none of you (to my knowledge) are even members at this specific St. Paul's club! Lol.
> 
> To whine or not to whine, that is the question.......
Click to expand...


Whats wrong with discussing an issue? should this whole forum be shut down because we're all wining?


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And why not the weight and machine area as well. Give these Muslim women their space!  It's the Y's business how they run it. During those hours the men can just show up for showers and the basketball courts, if any.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...what are you saying here...co-ed locker rooms?
Click to expand...


I wouldn't mind that.


----------



## Katzndogz

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...what are you saying here...co-ed locker rooms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wouldn't mind that.
Click to expand...


My gym has a men's locker room, a women's locker room, and a neutral locker room for those who aren't sure.


----------



## KevinWestern

Katzndogz said:


> The company, for whatever reason, has decided to give in to muslim demands.   It has the right to do that, thinking it will benefit them.   Once having gotten this demand met, there will be a new demand.  There will be new demands after that.   The company will slowly and incrementally make itself a company under full islamic control.
> 
> Then they will try and look back and wonder at what point would it have been appropriate to say no.



Yep, it's completely logical to assume that all 2,600 YMCA locations will soon be "under FULL Islamic control" due to the fact that one location is setting aside one hour a week of swim time to "women only", open to women of all colors, shapes, and religions. 

Completely logical.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...what are you saying here...co-ed locker rooms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wouldn't mind that.
Click to expand...


I was afraid you'd say that...

You do realize, don't you, that there are some women (and men) for whom an intimate relationship with spandex should NOT be attempted?


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The company, for whatever reason, has decided to give in to muslim demands.   It has the right to do that, thinking it will benefit them.   Once having gotten this demand met, there will be a new demand.  There will be new demands after that.   The company will slowly and incrementally make itself a company under full islamic control.
> 
> Then they will try and look back and wonder at what point would it have been appropriate to say no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, it's completely logical to assume that all 2,600 YMCA locations *will soon *be "under FULL Islamic control" due to the fact that one location is setting aside one hour a week of swim time to "women only", open to women of all colors, shapes, and religions.
> 
> Completely logical.
Click to expand...


Thats the thing it won't be soon, it will take time.


----------



## Katzndogz

KevinWestern said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The company, for whatever reason, has decided to give in to muslim demands.   It has the right to do that, thinking it will benefit them.   Once having gotten this demand met, there will be a new demand.  There will be new demands after that.   The company will slowly and incrementally make itself a company under full islamic control.
> 
> Then they will try and look back and wonder at what point would it have been appropriate to say no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, it's completely logical to assume that all 2,600 YMCA locations will soon be "under FULL Islamic control" due to the fact that one location is setting aside one hour a week of swim time to "women only", open to women of all colors, shapes, and religions.
> 
> Completely logical.
Click to expand...


I never said that all 2,600 YMCA locations will be under FULL islamic control.   Some will be.  Some will not until and unless there is some further action.   

Who would have thought that London, Paris, Oslo, Malmo and Stockholm would become what they are when all the women wanted was some accommodation for their religious sensibilities?  Just let them wear their veil, that's all they want.


----------



## Katzndogz

What happened with the airiports?

All muslims wanted were footbaths so they got them.   All they wanted was a place to pray so they got it.

Airport?s garage now Muslim house of worship - Matier And Ross

All reasonable.   Accommodate them.  It doesn't hurt anyone.

Then muslim cab drivers had a new demand.   The right to refuse fares with dogs or liquor.
Muslim Cab Drivers Refuse to Transport Alcohol, and Dogs - ABC News

It starts out small and just grows from there.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> Thats the thing it won't be soon, it will take time.



Disagree. You have no logical reason to assume that the YMCA will become overrun by conservative Muslims  (ever - in 1 year or 100 years) due to the fact that one single location out of 2,600 (0.03% of locations) is setting aside a single hour out of the ENTIRE WEEK of pool time to a women's only swim class that is open to any women - Jewish, Christian, black, Chinese, etc - who would like to join.

The claim has zero validity.


----------



## Esmeralda

Katzndogz said:


> What happened with the airiports?
> 
> All muslims wanted were footbaths so they got them.   All they wanted was a place to pray so they got it.
> 
> Airport?s garage now Muslim house of worship - Matier And Ross
> 
> All reasonable.   Accommodate them.  It doesn't hurt anyone.
> 
> Then muslim cab drivers had a new demand.   The right to refuse fares with dogs or liquor.
> Muslim Cab Drivers Refuse to Transport Alcohol, and Dogs - ABC News
> 
> It starts out small and just grows from there.



It's going to be really horrible for you in a few years when you are in the nursing home and it's controlled by Sharia law. Really awful. Better off dead, eh?


----------



## KevinWestern

Katzndogz said:


> I never said that all 2,600 YMCA locations will be under FULL islamic control.   Some will be.  Some will not until and unless there is some further action.
> 
> Who would have thought that London, Paris, Oslo, Malmo and Stockholm would become what they are when all the women wanted was some accommodation for their religious sensibilities?  Just let them wear their veil, that's all they want.



Muslim population is about 3% in the US. That's ALL Muslims (not just the extremely conservative ones). Why would businesses curtail their operations on a large scale just to attract such a small percentage of highly religious people? 

Doesn't make sense.


----------



## Coyote

Katzndogz said:


> What happened with the airiports?
> 
> All muslims wanted were footbaths so they got them.   All they wanted was a place to pray so they got it.
> 
> Airport?s garage now Muslim house of worship - Matier And Ross
> 
> All reasonable.   Accommodate them.  It doesn't hurt anyone.
> 
> Then muslim cab drivers had a new demand.   The right to refuse fares with dogs or liquor.
> Muslim Cab Drivers Refuse to Transport Alcohol, and Dogs - ABC News
> 
> It starts out small and just grows from there.




Cabs are private companies.  Unfortunately - many (not just Muslim) won't transport animals.  If it's service animals - then they might be breaking the law, and that's another issue.  Otherwise, it's entirely up to them.  As to liquor - again, it is up to them.  If enough people don't like it, they'll lose business to other cab services.

So giving Muslims a small area where they can meet their religious requirements is unreasonable and "creeping Sharia"?

How about these?
Airport Chapels: 'Flying On A Wing And A Prayer' : NPR
Inter-Faith Chapel - Richmond International Airport
Airport Chapels: 'Flying On A Wing And A Prayer' : NPR


----------



## Immanuel

Esmeralda said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> The pool in my building has ladies only hours 3 times a week and a ladies only gym. Has nothing to do with anything except that a lot of women prefer to swim and workout without men oogling or staring at them.  The gym I belonged to in Austria also had a ladies' only workout room.  This is typical in many places, many countries, and has nothing to do with any religion.  It is because the business wants to attract female customers who do not want to work out or swim with men 'watching' every move they make.  I was in the elevator yesterday, and a female resident was there with her girlfriend telling her about the attributes of the building. She told her about the pool having ladies' hours, and they were both obviously impressed by that. This is two young women who happened to be black.  It is something a lot of women want, and business owners cater to what customers want.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, those are possible in private establishments. When you become a member at the Y, as I have in the past, you want SOME access to the pool and gym areas during business hours for all members. That's what you're paying for. And that's how it was when I was a member. The pool was never entirely closed.  If I showed to to swim, and there was some type of class, there was at least two lanes open.  I know as a fact that people would complain if they had no access to the pool. Many times I witnessed people complaining to the lifeguard why so many lanes were closed to classes and why more lanes aren't open to regular members.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The YMCA is not a public institution. It is a private 'establishment.'  Not part of the government, not supported by tax dollars. Private.  The YMCA is a private, non-profit, international Christian organization.  It is not a 'public' organization and not owned or controlled by the US government.
Click to expand...


I despise segregation and things like this women's only hour.  This policy by the Y sucks and I think if I were a member of that particular Y I would demand my annual fees be returned to me. 

If this were a men's group asking for just one hour I suspect there would be hell to pay from women's organizations.  

However, the Y has the right to do what they want with their property.  If they choose to discriminate during this hour, or all hours for that matter they are welcome to do so.

Immie


----------



## Article 15

Y'all who are up in arms about this are a bunch of whining, paranoid lil' bitches.


----------



## High_Gravity

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats the thing it won't be soon, it will take time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree. You have no logical reason to assume that the YMCA will become overrun by conservative Muslims  (ever - in 1 year or 100 years) due to the fact that one single location out of 2,600 (0.03% of locations) is setting aside a single hour out of the ENTIRE WEEK of pool time to a women's only swim class that is open to any women - Jewish, Christian, black, Chinese, etc - who would like to join.
> 
> The claim has zero validity.
Click to expand...


Who would have though we'd have Muslim only swimming time though?


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> [MENTION=36154]Roudy[/MENTION] - You keep mentioning that a "one hour women's swim class" violates the company's policy and (therefore) someone should be fired.
> 
> Please show us what line of policy this is in violation of and we can go from there.
> 
> 
> 
> Ya right. People are paying monthly fees up to $100 or more in order to use their facilities such as the pool or gym whoever they want to.  That's what they advertise in order to entice people to become members. That is logical and goes with any health club.
> 
> Talk about "moron".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn't matter the least if people pay $100 or $100,000/month for the YMCA membership in St. Paul, what matters is whether or not the YMCA is violating a contractual agreement that states something along the lines  "ALL MEMBERS will have complete and absolute access to the pool during business hours".
> 
> Do you have a copy of the contract people at the St. Paul's YMCA has people sign when they sign up?
Click to expand...

Yes, all members should have access (not complete) to portions of gym and pool areas.  As I said, at times when I would swim, I recall one or two lanes had private lessons, or they had a seniors class, or pool conditioning for handicapped individuals.


----------



## Roudy

Immanuel said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, those are possible in private establishments. When you become a member at the Y, as I have in the past, you want SOME access to the pool and gym areas during business hours for all members. That's what you're paying for. And that's how it was when I was a member. The pool was never entirely closed.  If I showed to to swim, and there was some type of class, there was at least two lanes open.  I know as a fact that people would complain if they had no access to the pool. Many times I witnessed people complaining to the lifeguard why so many lanes were closed to classes and why more lanes aren't open to regular members.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The YMCA is not a public institution. It is a private 'establishment.'  Not part of the government, not supported by tax dollars. Private.  The YMCA is a private, non-profit, international Christian organization.  It is not a 'public' organization and not owned or controlled by the US government.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I despise segregation and things like this women's only hour.  This policy by the Y sucks and I think if I were a member of that particular Y I would demand my annual fees be returned to me.
> 
> If this were a men's group asking for just one hour I suspect there would be hell to pay from women's organizations.
> 
> However, the Y has the right to do what they want with their property.  If they choose to discriminate during this hour, or all hours for that matter they are welcome to do so.
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with women's hour, as long as they allow other non members limited access to the pool as well.  However, if this "women's hour" is religious based, and I start seeing a bunch of Muslim women flapping around the pool in their clothes, I will be very disappointed, and try to avoid those hours that these activity is going on.  If they closed the pool entirely, I would ask to speak to the manager or whoever is in charge to complain about this bullshit.


----------



## Article 15

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats the thing it won't be soon, it will take time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree. You have no logical reason to assume that the YMCA will become overrun by conservative Muslims  (ever - in 1 year or 100 years) due to the fact that one single location out of 2,600 (0.03% of locations) is setting aside a single hour out of the ENTIRE WEEK of pool time to a women's only swim class that is open to any women - Jewish, Christian, black, Chinese, etc - who would like to join.
> 
> The claim has zero validity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who would have though we'd have Muslim only swimming time though?
Click to expand...


Orthodox Jews in New York have pools where there are separate gender swim times.

They have buses where the sexes are segregated.

There are Beth Din courts.

Where is FOXNews' outrage?

Why aren't they making claims of da' Jews creepin' up on us?

Seriously, who in their right mind really cares if a YMCA sets aside an hour a week for a woman only swim time?

SMH


----------



## skye

"If non-Muslims were to wear similar clothing, it would be considered unhygienic, and they would not be allowed in the pool. But the magic of Islam can perform many wonders, and one of them seems to be to reverse bad hygiene. Say the shahada, and presto! The bacteria flee from the scene."


It seems to me there is also a  health issue...among all the other issues.


----------



## paulitician

She was referring to the 'Creeping Sharia' theory. Many believe it is happening in most Western Nations. It may not be as far-fetched as many think. Ideas and policies can take time to be fully implemented. They have to have a beginning. They usually start out small and advance in small increments. But i'm not sure this is happening here. It is a theory being debated though. But it's obviously above the heads of the MSNBC nutter viewers who enjoy defecating on those who hold different political views. Not exactly brainiacs.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> Who would have though we'd have Muslim only swimming time though?



Can you rephrase? Not understanding question. Thanks


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Yes, all members should have access (not complete) to portions of gym and pool areas.  As I said, at times when I would swim, I recall one or two lanes had private lessons, or they had a seniors class, or pool conditioning for handicapped individuals.



"All members should have access to portions of gym and pool areas".

Was it specifically written into the contract that members agree to when they pay that they "will always have some access to the pool"? 

Is this a legal obligation the YMCA must adhere to?


----------



## Article 15

First, they came for the Wedenday 11:30 - 12:30 block at a YMCA pool and I said nothing.

lol y'all are clowns


----------



## Immanuel

Roudy said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> The YMCA is not a public institution. It is a private 'establishment.'  Not part of the government, not supported by tax dollars. Private.  The YMCA is a private, non-profit, international Christian organization.  It is not a 'public' organization and not owned or controlled by the US government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I despise segregation and things like this women's only hour.  This policy by the Y sucks and I think if I were a member of that particular Y I would demand my annual fees be returned to me.
> 
> If this were a men's group asking for just one hour I suspect there would be hell to pay from women's organizations.
> 
> However, the Y has the right to do what they want with their property.  If they choose to discriminate during this hour, or all hours for that matter they are welcome to do so.
> 
> Immie
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't have a problem with women's hour, as long as they allow other non members limited access to the pool as well.  However, if this "women's hour" is religious based, and I start seeing a bunch of Muslim women flapping around the pool in their clothes, I will be very disappointed, and try to avoid those hours that these activity is going on.  If they closed the pool entirely, I would ask to speak to the manager or whoever is in charge to complain about this bullshit.
Click to expand...


I despise these kind of things.  I don't care if it is women's hour, men's hour or what have you.  It is discrimination against everyone else.  Maybe, I purchased my membership so that I could swim three days a week and the only time I have available are MWF at the hour that is reserved for women.  Now, the value of my membership has been cut by a third, but they still expect me to pay my dues.

These kind of things don't take other people's needs/wants into consideration.  It is pure unadulterated arrogance of this group to believe that they have the right to interfere with the rights of others who pay for and want to use the pool at that particular time.

Immie


----------



## Article 15

Immanuel said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> I despise segregation and things like this women's only hour.  This policy by the Y sucks and I think if I were a member of that particular Y I would demand my annual fees be returned to me.
> 
> If this were a men's group asking for just one hour I suspect there would be hell to pay from women's organizations.
> 
> However, the Y has the right to do what they want with their property.  If they choose to discriminate during this hour, or all hours for that matter they are welcome to do so.
> 
> Immie
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a problem with women's hour, as long as they allow other non members limited access to the pool as well.  However, if this "women's hour" is religious based, and I start seeing a bunch of Muslim women flapping around the pool in their clothes, I will be very disappointed, and try to avoid those hours that these activity is going on.  If they closed the pool entirely, I would ask to speak to the manager or whoever is in charge to complain about this bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I despise these kind of things.  I don't care if it is women's hour, men's hour or what have you.  It is discrimination against everyone else.  Maybe, I purchased my membership so that I could swim three days a week and the only time I have available are MWF at the hour that is reserved for women.  Now, the value of my membership has been cut by a third, but they still expect me to pay my dues.
> 
> These kind of things don't take other people's needs/wants into consideration.  It is pure unadulterated arrogance of this group to believe that they have the right to interfere with the rights of others who pay for and want to use the pool at that particular time.
> 
> Immie
Click to expand...




Get that make up off your face, clown.


----------



## High_Gravity

Article 15 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree. You have no logical reason to assume that the YMCA will become overrun by conservative Muslims  (ever - in 1 year or 100 years) due to the fact that one single location out of 2,600 (0.03% of locations) is setting aside a single hour out of the ENTIRE WEEK of pool time to a women's only swim class that is open to any women - Jewish, Christian, black, Chinese, etc - who would like to join.
> 
> The claim has zero validity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who would have though we'd have Muslim only swimming time though?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Orthodox Jews in New York have pools where there are separate gender swim times.
> 
> They have buses where the sexes are segregated.
> 
> There are Beth Din courts.
> 
> Where is FOXNews' outrage?
> 
> Why aren't they making claims of da' Jews creepin' up on us?
> 
> Seriously, who in their right mind really cares if a YMCA sets aside an hour a week for a woman only swim time?
> 
> SMH
Click to expand...


Separate sex buses? where?


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats the thing it won't be soon, it will take time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree. You have no logical reason to assume that the YMCA will become overrun by conservative Muslims  (ever - in 1 year or 100 years) due to the fact that one single location out of 2,600 (0.03% of locations) is setting aside a single hour out of the ENTIRE WEEK of pool time to a women's only swim class that is open to any women - Jewish, Christian, black, Chinese, etc - who would like to join.
> 
> The claim has zero validity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who would have though* we'd have Muslim only* swimming time though?
Click to expand...


Well.  Except.  We don't.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> St. Paul's YMCA membership benefits: https://www.ymcatwincities.org/membership/membership_benefits/


There.  Does it say, we will be closing the pool to certain groups at certain hours?  Absolutely not. In fact, they advertise YEAR ROUND access to pool to all members.

Thanks for proving my point!  Wow....


----------



## Coyote

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, all members should have access (not complete) to portions of gym and pool areas.  As I said, at times when I would swim, I recall one or two lanes had private lessons, or they had a seniors class, or pool conditioning for handicapped individuals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "All members should have access to portions of gym and pool areas".
> 
> Was it specifically written into the contract that members agree to when they pay that they "will always have some access to the pool"?
> 
> Is this a legal obligation the YMCA must adhere to?
Click to expand...


Maybe you'll eventually get an answer instead of a dodge


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT POLICY line are you speaking of exactly, lol???
> 
> 
> 
> Easy use and access to their facilities at business hours for which they are getting membership dues for. You want to see it in writing?  Wow you are dumber than I thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do want to see that in writing. And since you're making the claim I'd need to see specifically what the contract at St. Paul's YMCA says. They're all going to be different.
> 
> Finally, one hour a week for a women's only swim class doesn't violate "easy use and access to their facilities" at business hours any more than a "senior's swim" would.
Click to expand...

Kevin, ever signed up to be members at a gym which requires monthly dues? Sure doesn't sound like you have. 

I happen to be members at Equinox, which charges me $250 a month for nationwide membership.  I know if I showed up at ANY HOUR I pleased and which was convenient to me, and some asshole said to me, "Duh...sorry sir...pool is closed to males"  I would be walking straight to the managers desk from there.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> St. Paul's YMCA membership benefits: https://www.ymcatwincities.org/membership/membership_benefits/
> 
> 
> 
> There.  Does it say, we will be closing the pool to certain groups at certain hours?  Absolutely not. In fact, they advertise YEAR ROUND access to pool to all members.
> 
> Thanks for proving my point!  Wow....
Click to expand...


You ought to actually READ it Roudy. 

Nowhere does it state that a member has open access to the pool at ALL times.




> Member Services
> 
> 21 YMCA Locations
> Open 7 days a week
> No annual contracts
> 30-day money back guarantee
> Access to Ys across the U.S.
> 
> Fitness
> 
> Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
> State-of-the-art fitness centers
> Pools, gyms and running tracks. Check amenities
> Free fitness consultations
> 
> Adults
> 
> Free Group exercise classes like Turbo Kick, Zumba and Hip Hop Hustle
> Special Rates on adult swim lessons
> Free guest passes
> Free drop-off Child Care while you work out
> Free family programs and events
> 
> Kids & Teens
> 
> Free fitness equipment orientations for kids and teens ages 12+
> Free Group Exercise classes for ages 10+
> Special rates on kids swim lessons
> Open swim time
> Kids Sports
> Birthday Party Packages


----------



## paulitician

That girl needs to be defecated on. Who she think she is? Someone should call MSNBC and Martin Bashir. Hurry, he's crowning.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT POLICY line are you speaking of exactly, lol???
> 
> 
> 
> Easy use and access to their facilities at business hours for which they are getting membership dues for. You want to see it in writing?  Wow you are dumber than I thought.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I do want to see that in writing. And since you're making the claim I'd need to see specifically what the contract at St. Paul's YMCA says. They're all going to be different.
> 
> Finally, one hour a week for a women's only swim class doesn't violate "easy use and access to their facilities" at business hours any more than a "senior's swim" would.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does buddy, yes it does.  The pool cannot be entirely closed off to ANYBODY.  Many people, such as myself, come there just for the pool, as swimming is an all encompassing aerobic and anaerobic workout, and they hit the showers from there.  They HAVE TO have a few lanes open to those who wish to use the pool, PERIOD.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> But no answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So having arthitis is the same as being a Muslim?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> or being a woman?
> 
> It's a woman's swim hour - any women.
> 
> So, we get rid of senior swim, kid swim, handicapped swim - shoot, they all exclude people.
Click to expand...

More signs of reading comprehension problems again.  There are all kinds of classes that occur at the pool.  But at no time is the pool entirely closed to regular members who wish to swim.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> No men in the gym area is fine too if the company decides that's what they want to do. Heck, they could make an "aliens only" gym for extraterrestrial life only if they wanted to. However...
> 
> My point is, there is absolutely not a shred of evidence - anywhere - suggesting the YMCA in St. Paul (or any of the other 2,600 locations) is planning to install a "women's only workout hours" to cater to the Muslim community.
> 
> Zero evidence. I'm just telling you to quit exaggerating and making things up.
> 
> 
> 
> No men in the gym is fine too?  Ha ha ha. I rest my case.
> 
> No more questions, your honor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roudy, private companies have a right to arrange things as they desire, within the law - they are privately owned, not publicaly owned.  If you, as a member, object to one hour a week women's only swim, then you can withdraw your support as a customer.
> 
> That's kind of how private enterprise works.
Click to expand...

Bingo!  And that's exactly what happened in this case.  People complained about this, and that's why the story became nationwide.  I suppose the corporate office is deciding what actions if any to take, considering that whatever their decision, it will also have nationwide implications regarding this matter.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And why not the weight and machine area as well. Give these Muslim women their space!  It's the Y's business how they run it. During those hours the men can just show up for showers and the basketball courts, if any.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So...what are you saying here...co-ed locker rooms?
Click to expand...

Considering the kind of women that usually attend the Y?  YUK!  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not a day? its just a day. Why not a week? its just a week.
> 
> 
> 
> And why not the weight and machine area as well. Give these Muslim women their space!  It's the Y's business how they run it. During those hours the men can just show up for showers and the basketball courts, if any.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.
Click to expand...

I confess!  I check out hot women in tight yoga outfits while at the gym!  Ha ha .


----------



## Katzndogz

Esmeralda said:


> Katzndogz said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened with the airiports?
> 
> All muslims wanted were footbaths so they got them.   All they wanted was a place to pray so they got it.
> 
> Airport?s garage now Muslim house of worship - Matier And Ross
> 
> All reasonable.   Accommodate them.  It doesn't hurt anyone.
> 
> Then muslim cab drivers had a new demand.   The right to refuse fares with dogs or liquor.
> Muslim Cab Drivers Refuse to Transport Alcohol, and Dogs - ABC News
> 
> 
> 
> It starts out small and just grows from there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's going to be really horrible for you in a few years when you are in the nursing home and it's controlled by Sharia law. Really awful. Better off dead, eh?
Click to expand...

I am so mean I would be using my shotgun to divest them of their balls from my wheelchair and laughing when I did it.  

Whoopsie another set gone.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats the thing it won't be soon, it will take time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree. You have no logical reason to assume that the YMCA will become overrun by conservative Muslims  (ever - in 1 year or 100 years) due to the fact that one single location out of 2,600 (0.03% of locations) is setting aside a single hour out of the ENTIRE WEEK of pool time to a women's only swim class that is open to any women - Jewish, Christian, black, Chinese, etc - who would like to join.
> 
> The claim has zero validity.
Click to expand...

That's not the point.


----------



## Roudy

Article 15 said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree. You have no logical reason to assume that the YMCA will become overrun by conservative Muslims  (ever - in 1 year or 100 years) due to the fact that one single location out of 2,600 (0.03% of locations) is setting aside a single hour out of the ENTIRE WEEK of pool time to a women's only swim class that is open to any women - Jewish, Christian, black, Chinese, etc - who would like to join.
> 
> The claim has zero validity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who would have though we'd have Muslim only swimming time though?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Orthodox Jews in New York have pools where there are separate gender swim times.
> 
> They have buses where the sexes are segregated.
> 
> There are Beth Din courts.
> 
> Where is FOXNews' outrage?
> 
> Why aren't they making claims of da' Jews creepin' up on us?
> 
> Seriously, who in their right mind really cares if a YMCA sets aside an hour a week for a woman only swim time?
> 
> SMH
Click to expand...

At an organization like the Y that is open to all members of all races and religions, which charges them monthly fees for access to it's facilities?  

Please try to stay relevant.


----------



## WillReadmore

paulitician said:


> That girl needs to be defecated on. Who she think she is? Someone should call MSNBC and Martin Bashir. Hurry, he's crowning.


Fox hired her to make that report.

While she clearly is an idiot, I think the real lesson is about Fox.

Plus - how about lightening up on the crude ad hom?  You're reflecting on the Paul family.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No men in the gym is fine too?  Ha ha ha. I rest my case.
> 
> No more questions, your honor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy, private companies have a right to arrange things as they desire, within the law - they are privately owned, not publicaly owned.  If you, as a member, object to one hour a week women's only swim, then you can withdraw your support as a customer.
> 
> That's kind of how private enterprise works.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Bingo!  And that's exactly what happened in this case.  People complained about this, and that's why the story became nationwide.  I suppose the corporate office is deciding what actions if any to take, considering that whatever their decision, it will also have nationwide implications regarding this matter.
Click to expand...


Yup.  That's how it works.  And hopefully they'll keep on doing it because it has the support of a portion of their membership who enjoy women-only swimming 1 hour a week.  It would certainly be a pity if people who weren't even members of that Y drove the policy.


----------



## Roudy

skye said:


> "If non-Muslims were to wear similar clothing, it would be considered unhygienic, and they would not be allowed in the pool. But the magic of Islam can perform many wonders, and one of them seems to be to reverse bad hygiene. Say the shahada, and presto! The bacteria flee from the scene."
> 
> 
> It seems to me there is also a  health issue...among all the other issues.


That as well.


----------



## paulitician

WillReadmore said:


> paulitician said:
> 
> 
> 
> That girl needs to be defecated on. Who she think she is? Someone should call MSNBC and Martin Bashir. Hurry, he's crowning.
> 
> 
> 
> Fox hired her to make that report.
> 
> While she clearly is an idiot, I think the real lesson is about Fox.
> 
> Plus - how about lightening up on the crude ad hom?  You're reflecting on the Paul family.
Click to expand...


Oh, i was talking about the girl at the pool. But don't let Martin Bashir near that pool. They'll have a Caddyshack situation to deal with. He so nasty.


----------



## Immanuel

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy, private companies have a right to arrange things as they desire, within the law - they are privately owned, not publicaly owned.  If you, as a member, object to one hour a week women's only swim, then you can withdraw your support as a customer.
> 
> That's kind of how private enterprise works.
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo!  And that's exactly what happened in this case.  People complained about this, and that's why the story became nationwide.  I suppose the corporate office is deciding what actions if any to take, considering that whatever their decision, it will also have nationwide implications regarding this matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup.  That's how it works.  And hopefully they'll keep on doing it because it has the support of a portion of their membership who enjoy women-only swimming 1 hour a week.  It would certainly be a pity if people who weren't even members of that Y drove the policy.
Click to expand...


Hopefully, their membership will abandon them for a time and leave them with 23 women to pay all the bills until such time as they decide that everyone who pays for that pool should have equal access.

Immie

Note just using the 23 as an example.  I do not know how many participants there actually are.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, all members should have access (not complete) to portions of gym and pool areas.  As I said, at times when I would swim, I recall one or two lanes had private lessons, or they had a seniors class, or pool conditioning for handicapped individuals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "All members should have access to portions of gym and pool areas".
> 
> Was it specifically written into the contract that members agree to when they pay that they "will always have some access to the pool"?
> 
> Is this a legal obligation the YMCA must adhere to?
Click to expand...

Are you saying that a gym that sells access to it's facilities during business hours, in exchange for membership dues, will win in a court of law if it then refuses said access?  If so, then not only are you not familiar with the way gyms work you are also legally illiterate as well.

Why do you guys create this fictional la la world in order to appease Islamic behavior?  You do understand that as I said before, many secular Muslims who frequent the Y would be just as upset over this bullshit, as  would other members.  In other words, all you are promoting is more hatred and anger towards Muslims.  

If that's what you want then you guys are doing a great job.


----------



## Coyote

Immanuel said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo!  And that's exactly what happened in this case.  People complained about this, and that's why the story became nationwide.  I suppose the corporate office is deciding what actions if any to take, considering that whatever their decision, it will also have nationwide implications regarding this matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.  That's how it works.  And hopefully they'll keep on doing it because it has the support of a portion of their membership who enjoy women-only swimming 1 hour a week.  It would certainly be a pity if people who weren't even members of that Y drove the policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hopefully, their membership will abandon them for a time and leave them with 23 women to pay all the bills until such time as they decide that everyone who pays for that pool should have equal access.
> 
> Immie
> 
> Note just using the 23 as an example.  I do not know how many participants there actually are.
Click to expand...


I certainly hope not.  It would be pretty petty wouldn't it?  1 hour a week, women only, so these Somali girls can how to swim - a skill that could end up saving their lives.

Seems to me the Y is living up to it's Christian philosophy


----------



## paulitician

Such pious condemnation coming from nutters who love watching a douche rant about how he would like to defecate on a woman for merely holding different political views. Yeah, you loony MSNBC viewers have so much credibility. We'll all listen to you guys.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy, private companies have a right to arrange things as they desire, within the law - they are privately owned, not publicaly owned.  If you, as a member, object to one hour a week women's only swim, then you can withdraw your support as a customer.
> 
> That's kind of how private enterprise works.
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo!  And that's exactly what happened in this case.  People complained about this, and that's why the story became nationwide.  I suppose the corporate office is deciding what actions if any to take, considering that whatever their decision, it will also have nationwide implications regarding this matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yup.  That's how it works.  And hopefully they'll keep on doing it because it has the support of a portion of their membership who enjoy women-only swimming 1 hour a week.  It would certainly be a pity if people who weren't even members of that Y drove the policy.
Click to expand...

As far I remember, there was no movement for a women's only swimming at the Y or any gym I ever attended.  As a matter of fact, gyms are a good place for single people to meet other single people with similar interests, so if anything, most members would be totally against this. 

But of course, this is not about that at all is it?  For you it's about defending everything and anything Islam, as it always has been.  What you are infamous for on this board.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> And why not the weight and machine area as well. Give these Muslim women their space!  It's the Y's business how they run it. During those hours the men can just show up for showers and the basketball courts, if any.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I confess!  I check out hot women in tight yoga outfits while at the gym!  Ha ha .
Click to expand...


How dare you! thats haram!


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So...what are you saying here...co-ed locker rooms?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Considering the kind of women that usually attend the Y?  YUK!  Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


Thats what I'm saying, people are acting like there are look alikes of Shakira and Jennifer Love Hewitt walking around at the Y was in string bikinis.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo!  And that's exactly what happened in this case.  People complained about this, and that's why the story became nationwide.  I suppose the corporate office is deciding what actions if any to take, considering that whatever their decision, it will also have nationwide implications regarding this matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.  That's how it works.  And hopefully they'll keep on doing it because it has the support of a portion of their membership who enjoy women-only swimming 1 hour a week.  It would certainly be a pity if people who weren't even members of that Y drove the policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As far I remember, there was no movement for a women's only swimming at the Y or any gym I ever attended.  As a matter of fact, gyms are a good place for single people to meet other single people with similar interests, so if anything, most members would be totally against this.
> 
> But of course, this is not about that at all is it?  For you it's about defending everything and anything Islam, as it always has been.  What you are infamous for on this board.
Click to expand...


1 hour a week, so Somali refugee girls can learn how to swim.  Open to any women.  Such a big deal, with all the hours available there you can not bring yourself to let them have their hour.  Sheesh.  You really are petty.

It's a private business and if they want to do this, it's their choice - not yours. They serve a community - not *you*.  You can go to the Y or Gym you belong and make sure they don't institute a "women only" time and you'll be well within your rights, but why don't you leave these girls alone to enjoy their hour of fun.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.  That's how it works.  And hopefully they'll keep on doing it because it has the support of a portion of their membership who enjoy women-only swimming 1 hour a week.  It would certainly be a pity if people who weren't even members of that Y drove the policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, their membership will abandon them for a time and leave them with 23 women to pay all the bills until such time as they decide that everyone who pays for that pool should have equal access.
> 
> Immie
> 
> Note just using the 23 as an example.  I do not know how many participants there actually are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly hope not.  It would be pretty petty wouldn't it?  1 hour a week, women only, so these Somali girls can how to swim - a skill that could end up saving their lives.
> 
> Seems to me the Y is living up to it's Christian philosophy
Click to expand...

Maybe THEY can drop their no men only Shariah shit, in order to save their lives?  Or choose another facility that doesn't have other members that would also want to use the pool.  It's not like there is a shortage of pools in the neighborhood.

Is being inconsiderate, selfish, and imposing a "Christian value"?  Sounds closer to Shariah values to me.


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...what are you saying here...co-ed locker rooms?
> 
> 
> 
> Considering the kind of women that usually attend the Y?  YUK!  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats what I'm saying, people are acting like there are look alikes of Shakira and Jennifer Love Hewitt walking around at the Y was in string bikinis.
Click to expand...


Who's acting like that?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, their membership will abandon them for a time and leave them with 23 women to pay all the bills until such time as they decide that everyone who pays for that pool should have equal access.
> 
> Immie
> 
> Note just using the 23 as an example.  I do not know how many participants there actually are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly hope not.  It would be pretty petty wouldn't it?  1 hour a week, women only, so these Somali girls can how to swim - a skill that could end up saving their lives.
> 
> Seems to me the Y is living up to it's Christian philosophy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Maybe THEY can drop their no men only Shariah shit, in order to save their lives?  Or choose another facility that doesn't have other members that would also want to use the pool.  It's not like there is a shortage of pools in the neighborhood.
> 
> Is being inconsiderate, selfish, and imposition a "Christian value"?  Sounds closer to Shariah values to me.
Click to expand...


It's not like there's a shortage of open hours available Roudy.  Sounds closer to *your* values


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not just a separate section for men and one for women? men are dirty trolling perverts and shouldn't be trusted.
> 
> 
> 
> I confess!  I check out hot women in tight yoga outfits while at the gym!  Ha ha .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How dare you! thats haram!
Click to expand...

Sometimes my eyeballs plop out in the middle of a set, and I have to quickly put them back in.  Especially after a Lulu-lemon girl walks by.  I swear they should give the Nobel Peace Prize to the inventor of those pants.  Instead they gave it to that dumbass Obama.


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Considering the kind of women that usually attend the Y?  YUK!  Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats what I'm saying, people are acting like there are look alikes of Shakira and Jennifer Love Hewitt walking around at the Y was in string bikinis.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Who's acting like that?
Click to expand...


Isn't what this is all about? they want the pool free of men so they won't be oogled and cat called?


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I confess!  I check out hot women in tight yoga outfits while at the gym!  Ha ha .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How dare you! thats haram!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sometimes my eyeballs plop out in the middle of a set, and I have to quickly put them back in.  Especially after a Lulu-lemon girl walks by.  I swear they should give the Nobel Peace Prize to the inventor of those pants.  Instead they gave it to that dumbass Obama.
Click to expand...


----------



## paulitician

Hey now, y'all nuttter Communists/Progressives sposed to be all about thems Co-Ed Bathrooms and such. Why so hypocritical on this? Is it y'alls FNDS (Fox News Derangement Syndrome) or somethin?


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly hope not.  It would be pretty petty wouldn't it?  1 hour a week, women only, so these Somali girls can how to swim - a skill that could end up saving their lives.
> 
> Seems to me the Y is living up to it's Christian philosophy
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe THEY can drop their no men only Shariah shit, in order to save their lives?  Or choose another facility that doesn't have other members that would also want to use the pool.  It's not like there is a shortage of pools in the neighborhood.
> 
> Is being inconsiderate, selfish, and imposition a "Christian value"?  Sounds closer to Shariah values to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's not like there's a shortage of open hours available Roudy.  Sounds closer to *your* values
Click to expand...

Eh? What are you dense?  People have volatile schedules.  They want to show up at a gym whenever they feel like, and the facilities to be available for them.  It also doesn't look like you are familiar with the way a health club works either, plumpy.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe THEY can drop their no men only Shariah shit, in order to save their lives?  Or choose another facility that doesn't have other members that would also want to use the pool.  It's not like there is a shortage of pools in the neighborhood.
> 
> Is being inconsiderate, selfish, and imposition a "Christian value"?  Sounds closer to Shariah values to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not like there's a shortage of open hours available Roudy.  Sounds closer to *your* values
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Eh? What are you dense?  People have volatile schedules.  They want to show up at a gym whenever they feel like, and the facilities to be available for them.  It also doesn't look like you are familiar with the way a health club works either, plumpy.
Click to expand...


I don't know how many 24 hour gyms there are where you are, but their aren't any here.

Selfish.  mmh hmmm.....

1 hour a week.

Such a horrible thing to do!


----------



## Immanuel

Coyote said:


> Immanuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.  That's how it works.  And hopefully they'll keep on doing it because it has the support of a portion of their membership who enjoy women-only swimming 1 hour a week.  It would certainly be a pity if people who weren't even members of that Y drove the policy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully, their membership will abandon them for a time and leave them with 23 women to pay all the bills until such time as they decide that everyone who pays for that pool should have equal access.
> 
> Immie
> 
> Note just using the 23 as an example.  I do not know how many participants there actually are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I certainly hope not.  It would be pretty petty wouldn't it?  1 hour a week, women only, so these Somali girls can how to swim - a skill that could end up saving their lives.
> 
> Seems to me the Y is living up to it's Christian philosophy
Click to expand...


First, you will not see anywhere where I have suggested they should exclude anyone based on faith or anything else.

Second, these women can learn how to swim just like everyone else without interfering with the rights of other members.

The board at the Y needs to be taught the lesson that discrimination of any kind will not be tolerated.  

Petty?  I think not.  Exclusion of people based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc. is wrong whether or not the reasons are based on good intentions. You cannot justify it.

So, it is only one hour.  Big deal you say.  I say that it doesn't matter if it is one hour or five minutes.  Policies that promote any kind of segregation should be protested against.

Immie


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats what I'm saying, people are acting like there are look alikes of Shakira and Jennifer Love Hewitt walking around at the Y was in string bikinis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who's acting like that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Isn't what this is all about? they want the pool free of men so they won't be oogled and cat called?
Click to expand...


I think you're spending too much time at Walmart dude...


----------



## Sunni Man

OK, I'm going to let the cat out of the bag.

It's absolutely true we muslims are engaging in 'creeping sharia'.

All mosques have a master list of creeping sharia goals that are distributed to members weekly.

Having a muslim women swim hour at the YMCA is #426 on the list for total domination of America.

True story..........


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who's acting like that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't what this is all about? they want the pool free of men so they won't be oogled and cat called?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you're spending too much time at Walmart dude...
Click to expand...


Why?


----------



## High_Gravity

Sunni Man said:


> OK, I'm going to let the cat out of the bag.
> 
> It's absolutely true we muslims are engaging in 'creeping sharia'.
> 
> All mosques have a master list of creeping sharia goals that are distributed to members weekly.
> 
> Having a muslim women swim hour at the YMCA is #426 on the list for total domination of America.
> 
> True story..........



Well if your going to do that at least lay out a spread of shawarma, hummus and kababs for us to enjoy, sheesh.


----------



## Sunni Man

High_Gravity said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'm going to let the cat out of the bag.
> 
> It's absolutely true we muslims are engaging in 'creeping sharia'.
> 
> All mosques have a master list of creeping sharia goals that are distributed to members weekly.
> 
> Having a muslim women swim hour at the YMCA is #426 on the list for total domination of America.
> 
> True story..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well if your going to do that at least lay out a spread of shawarma, hummus and kababs for us to enjoy, sheesh.
Click to expand...

Convert to Islam and I'll make sure you get all you want.   ...


----------



## Katzndogz

I had kebobs and hummus on Thanksgiving.  Kebabs, hummus and Yorkshire pudding.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Easy use and access to their facilities at business hours for which they are getting membership dues for. You want to see it in writing?  Wow you are dumber than I thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do want to see that in writing. And since you're making the claim I'd need to see specifically what the contract at St. Paul's YMCA says. They're all going to be different.
> 
> Finally, one hour a week for a women's only swim class doesn't violate "easy use and access to their facilities" at business hours any more than a "senior's swim" would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it does buddy, yes it does.  The pool cannot be entirely closed off to ANYBODY.  Many people, such as myself, come there just for the pool, as swimming is an all encompassing aerobic and anaerobic workout, and they hit the showers from there.  They HAVE TO have a few lanes open to those who wish to use the pool, PERIOD.
Click to expand...


Show us, please, a link/scan, etc of the policy that having men blocked from the pool 1 hour a week violates.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not like there's a shortage of open hours available Roudy.  Sounds closer to *your* values
> 
> 
> 
> Eh? What are you dense?  People have volatile schedules.  They want to show up at a gym whenever they feel like, and the facilities to be available for them.  It also doesn't look like you are familiar with the way a health club works either, plumpy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know how many 24 hour gyms there are where you are, but their aren't any here.
> 
> Selfish.  mmh hmmm.....
> 
> 1 hour a week.
> 
> Such a horrible thing to do!
Click to expand...

It is isn't it?  A member packs his stuff and treks up to swim after to work his anxiety out, and a bunch of Shariah appeasing assholes tell you it's closed to men.  Inconsiderate, selfish, and imposing.  Shows lack of class.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do want to see that in writing. And since you're making the claim I'd need to see specifically what the contract at St. Paul's YMCA says. They're all going to be different.
> 
> Finally, one hour a week for a women's only swim class doesn't violate "easy use and access to their facilities" at business hours any more than a "senior's swim" would.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it does buddy, yes it does.  The pool cannot be entirely closed off to ANYBODY.  Many people, such as myself, come there just for the pool, as swimming is an all encompassing aerobic and anaerobic workout, and they hit the showers from there.  They HAVE TO have a few lanes open to those who wish to use the pool, PERIOD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Show us, please, a link/scan, etc of the policy that having men blocked from the pool 1 hour a week violates.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha.  Funny stuff.  Now you're squirming.  The website your cohort Coyote posted was pretty clear about it's access to facilities as a selling point.


----------



## Roudy

Sunni Man said:


> OK, I'm going to let the cat out of the bag.
> 
> It's absolutely true we muslims are engaging in 'creeping sharia'.
> 
> All mosques have a master list of creeping sharia goals that are distributed to members weekly.
> 
> Having a muslim women swim hour at the YMCA is #426 on the list for total domination of America.
> 
> True story..........


Yeah, that's really funny, but...why don't you tell everybody here that you already admitted you want the US to be under Shariah law and men to be allowed to marry four wives?  

Now watch him disappear.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> So...what are you saying here...co-ed locker rooms?
> 
> 
> 
> Considering the kind of women that usually attend the Y?  YUK!  Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thats what I'm saying, people are acting like there are look alikes of Shakira and Jennifer Love Hewitt walking around at the Y was in string bikinis.
Click to expand...

It also depends on how many drinks you've had.  At some point anything with a pulse can look like Jennifer Love Hewitt.


----------



## Indofred

Katzndogz said:


> I had kebobs and hummus on Thanksgiving.  Kebabs, hummus and Yorkshire pudding.



Kebab on Yorkshire puddings. Mmmmmmmm, lovely.

Pity I'm fucked for the black pudding since I did the Islam thing.


----------



## Indofred

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'm going to let the cat out of the bag.
> 
> It's absolutely true we muslims are engaging in 'creeping sharia'.
> 
> All mosques have a master list of creeping sharia goals that are distributed to members weekly.
> 
> Having a muslim women swim hour at the YMCA is #426 on the list for total domination of America.
> 
> True story..........
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's really funny, but...why don't you tell everybody here that you already admitted you want the US to be under Shariah law and men to be allowed to marry four wives?
> 
> Now watch him disappear.
Click to expand...


The four wives thing is a bit of a lie.
We are allowed more than one wife but who the fuck would want to listen to the nagging?


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Ha ha ha.  Funny stuff.  Now you're squirming.  The website your cohort Coyote posted was pretty clear about it's access to facilities as a selling point.



Why are you incapable of answering my question? Can you show me an example of the pool policy that _St. Paul_ YMCA members agree to that would be in conflict with a one hour, once a week class for women only?


----------



## Esmeralda

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo!  And that's exactly what happened in this case.  People complained about this, and that's why the story became nationwide.  I suppose the corporate office is deciding what actions if any to take, considering that whatever their decision, it will also have nationwide implications regarding this matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.  That's how it works.  And hopefully they'll keep on doing it because it has the support of a portion of their membership who enjoy women-only swimming 1 hour a week.  It would certainly be a pity if people who weren't even members of that Y drove the policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As far I remember, there was no movement for a women's only swimming at the Y or any gym I ever attended.  As a matter of fact, *gyms are a good place for single people to meet other single people with similar interests, *so if anything, most members would be totally against this.
> 
> But of course, this is not about that at all is it?  For you it's about defending everything and anything Islam, as it always has been.  What you are infamous for on this board.
Click to expand...

*Not necessarily*.  A lot, a good proportion of women do no like working out where there are men. They are more than annoyed with men who think gyms are a good place to meet or pick up women.  Women want to be able to workout without being watched and hit on.  There are many, many gyms that have women's only sections as well a thousands of women's only gyms because so many women want a place to work out where men don't bother them.  I think if  you believe going to the gym means it is a good place to meet women, you might very well be considered a pest by those those women because they would prefer it if you just left them alone.  

Where I  lived in Austria, the gym I belonged to had a women's only workout room. You had to walk through the bigger, co-ed gym to get to it and it was like walking the plank or something, half the men in there would be watching you just walking from the entrance to the co-ed gym to the entrance to the women's locker room, which led to the women's only gym,  and I wasn't even dressed down for a workout yet.  How annoying is that?  Also, while I lived there, someone built a women's only gym a few blocks from where I lived, but that was after I had joined the other gym and was on an inexpensive, year to year contract.  Also, generally, women's only gyms are not as well fitted out as the co-ed gyms.  The point is, gyms for women to be able to workout w/o men around are everywhere.  This is true of the States too.

Where I live now, the building has a separate women's only gym and has 4 hours, 3 x a week in the indoor pool that is reserved for women and children.  It isn't that men are going to do anything to you, it is that they watch you constantly and stare at you.  Sometimes you just want to relax and not feel you are on show. 

A woman's only hour one time a week at a YMCA pool seems like practically nothing to me. Why you people make such a huge deal about it says something really problematic about  you, not about the restrictive beliefs Muslim women hold.  I'm certain if it were not for Muslim women, but for women in general, no one would be making an issue about it.  Three percent of the US population is Muslim. They are not taking over.  It's just sick to think so.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha ha.  Funny stuff.  Now you're squirming.  The website your cohort Coyote posted was pretty clear about it's access to facilities as a selling point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you incapable of answering my question? Can you show me an example of the pool policy that _St. Paul_ YMCA members agree to that would be in conflict with a one hour, once a week class for women only?
Click to expand...

Incapable?!  Seriously dude get a grip on yourself. What do you think a membership contract is, a real estate deal?  

The Y website and on-site representatives that tour you, sell the club facilities and ACCESS to them as what the club offers, in exchange for monthly membership sues. Why else would someone pay monthly membership dues for...LIMITED ACCESS?  You can't be that dense. 

There are a thousand and one ways that a club or one of its members could violate club policies. Denying access, entirely, to men is one of them.  You add a religious reason for it, and you're basically asking for a class action lawsuit. And that's exactly why the manager of that club should get fired.


----------



## Roudy

Esmeralda said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.  That's how it works.  And hopefully they'll keep on doing it because it has the support of a portion of their membership who enjoy women-only swimming 1 hour a week.  It would certainly be a pity if people who weren't even members of that Y drove the policy.
> 
> 
> 
> As far I remember, there was no movement for a women's only swimming at the Y or any gym I ever attended.  As a matter of fact, *gyms are a good place for single people to meet other single people with similar interests, *so if anything, most members would be totally against this.
> 
> But of course, this is not about that at all is it?  For you it's about defending everything and anything Islam, as it always has been.  What you are infamous for on this board.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Not necessarily*.  A lot, a good proportion of women do no like working out where there are men. They are more than annoyed with men who think gyms are a good place to meet or pick up women.  Women want to be able to workout without being watched and hit on.  There are many, many gyms that have women's only sections as well a thousands of women's only gyms because so many women want a place to work out where men don't bother them.  I think if  you believe going to the gym means it is a good place to meet women, you might very well be considered a pest by those those women because they would prefer it if you just left them alone.
> 
> Where I  lived in Austria, the gym I belonged to had a women's only workout room. You had to walk through the bigger, co-ed gym to get to it and it was like walking the plank or something, half the men in there would be watching you just walking from the entrance to the co-ed gym to the entrance to the women's locker room, which led to the women's only gym,  and I wasn't even dressed down for a workout yet.  How annoying is that?  Also, while I lived there, someone built a women's only gym a few blocks from where I lived, but that was after I had joined the other gym and was on an inexpensive, year to year contract.  Also, generally, women's only gyms are not as well fitted out as the co-ed gyms.  The point is, gyms for women to be able to workout w/o men around are everywhere.  This is true of the States too.
> 
> Where I live now, the building has a separate women's only gym and has 4 hours, 3 x a week in the indoor pool that is reserved for women and children.  It isn't that men are going to do anything to you, it is that they watch you constantly and stare at you.  Sometimes you just want to relax and not feel you are on show.
> 
> A woman's only hour one time a week at a YMCA pool seems like practically nothing to me. Why you people make such a huge deal about it says something really problematic about  you, not about the restrictive beliefs Muslim women hold.  I'm certain if it were not for Muslim women, but for women in general, no one would be making an issue about it.  Three percent of the US population is Muslim. They are not taking over.  It's just sick to think so.
Click to expand...

Blah blah blah.  The gyms you mentioned are women's only gyms NOT THE YMCA. 

An apartment building is not a gym only, it's a residential building WITH A GYM, and as such with the approval of the board or homeowners can create a schedule which caters to certain groups only. 

Here you are fraudulently taking away access to the pool from a group of people that have clearly paid for said access without any restrictions.


----------



## Indofred

Roudy said:


> Blah blah blah.  The gyms you mentioned are women's only gyms NOT THE YMCA.
> 
> An apartment building is not a gym only, it's a residential building WITH A GYM, and as such with the approval of the board or homeowners can create a schedule which caters to certain groups only.
> 
> Here you are fraudulently taking away access to the pool from a group of people that have clearly paid for said access without any restrictions.



Israel Easy: Swimming Lessons


> Carmela also teaches groups of orthodox women



Group Fitness | Nutrition | Body360



> The Body 360 program designed by women for women



Women's fitness and swimming is common all over the world, even in Roudy's Israel, or are Muslims forcing them to stick to strict Islamic law?


----------



## Esmeralda

Indofred said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The gyms you mentioned are women's only gyms NOT THE YMCA.
> 
> An apartment building is not a gym only, it's a residential building WITH A GYM, and as such with the approval of the board or homeowners can create a schedule which caters to certain groups only.
> 
> Here you are fraudulently taking away access to the pool from a group of people that have clearly paid for said access without any restrictions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Easy: Swimming Lessons
> 
> 
> 
> Carmela also teaches groups of orthodox women
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Group Fitness | Nutrition | Body360
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Body 360 program designed by women for women
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Women's fitness and swimming is common all over the world*, even in Roudy's Israel, or are Muslims forcing them to stick to strict Islamic law?
Click to expand...


Decent, good men don't complain about gyms for women only, though there are rarely, if ever, designated gyms for men only.  Decent, good men don't complain about 1-2 hours a day or week being prohibited from using the pool so that women can have it to themselves.  Decent, good men.  Something Roudy and his ilk know nothing about.


----------



## Indofred

Esmeralda said:


> Decent, good men don't complain about gyms for women only, though there are rarely, if ever, designated gyms for men only.  Decent, good men don't complain about 1-2 hours a day or week being prohibited from using the pool so that women can have it to themselves.  Decent, good men.  Something Roudy and his ilk know nothing about.



I have to agree.

Some women may not be comfortable in swimwear with men around, regardless of religion.
Some women may be unhappy with men being around because of their religious beliefs.
Some women may just want to socialise with other women because they fancy a free environment where they can speak freely about subjects they dislike discussing when men are around.

Whatever their reason, up to them and I won't be moaning about it.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Esmeralda said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The gyms you mentioned are women's only gyms NOT THE YMCA.
> 
> An apartment building is not a gym only, it's a residential building WITH A GYM, and as such with the approval of the board or homeowners can create a schedule which caters to certain groups only.
> 
> Here you are fraudulently taking away access to the pool from a group of people that have clearly paid for said access without any restrictions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Easy: Swimming Lessons
> 
> 
> Group Fitness | Nutrition | Body360
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Body 360 program designed by women for women
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Women's fitness and swimming is common all over the world*, even in Roudy's Israel, or are Muslims forcing them to stick to strict Islamic law?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Decent, good men don't complain about gyms for women only, though there are rarely, if ever, designated gyms for men only.  Decent, good men don't complain about 1-2 hours a day or week being prohibited from using the pool so that women can have it to themselves.  Decent, good men.  Something Roudy and his ilk know nothing about.
Click to expand...


And decent, good men dont subscribe to the ignorance and hate exhibited by Nauert and her ilk.


----------



## Indofred

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> And decent, good men dont subscribe to the ignorance and hate exhibited by Nauert and her ilk.



If ignorance is a disease, education must be the cure.
Sadly, some people refuse their medicine.

If one refuses to be cured of stupidity, the disease spreads again.


----------



## Esmeralda

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far I remember, there was no movement for a women's only swimming at the Y or any gym I ever attended.  As a matter of fact, *gyms are a good place for single people to meet other single people with similar interests, *so if anything, most members would be totally against this.
> 
> But of course, this is not about that at all is it?  For you it's about defending everything and anything Islam, as it always has been.  What you are infamous for on this board.
> 
> 
> 
> *Not necessarily*.  A lot, a good proportion of women do no like working out where there are men. They are more than annoyed with men who think gyms are a good place to meet or pick up women.  Women want to be able to workout without being watched and hit on.  There are many, many gyms that have women's only sections as well a thousands of women's only gyms because so many women want a place to work out where men don't bother them.  I think if  you believe going to the gym means it is a good place to meet women, you might very well be considered a pest by those those women because they would prefer it if you just left them alone.
> 
> Where I  lived in Austria, the gym I belonged to had a women's only workout room. You had to walk through the bigger, co-ed gym to get to it and it was like walking the plank or something, half the men in there would be watching you just walking from the entrance to the co-ed gym to the entrance to the women's locker room, which led to the women's only gym,  and I wasn't even dressed down for a workout yet.  How annoying is that?  Also, while I lived there, someone built a women's only gym a few blocks from where I lived, but that was after I had joined the other gym and was on an inexpensive, year to year contract.  Also, generally, women's only gyms are not as well fitted out as the co-ed gyms.  The point is, gyms for women to be able to workout w/o men around are everywhere.  This is true of the States too.
> 
> Where I live now, the building has a separate women's only gym and has 4 hours, 3 x a week in the indoor pool that is reserved for women and children.  It isn't that men are going to do anything to you, it is that they watch you constantly and stare at you.  Sometimes you just want to relax and not feel you are on show.
> 
> A woman's only hour one time a week at a YMCA pool seems like practically nothing to me. Why you people make such a huge deal about it says something really problematic about  you, not about the restrictive beliefs Muslim women hold.  I'm certain if it were not for Muslim women, but for women in general, no one would be making an issue about it.  Three percent of the US population is Muslim. They are not taking over.  It's just sick to think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The gyms you mentioned are women's only gyms NOT THE YMCA.
> 
> An apartment building is not a gym only, it's a residential building WITH A GYM, and as such with the approval of the board or homeowners can create a schedule which caters to certain groups only.
> 
> Here you are fraudulently taking away access to the pool from a group of people that have clearly paid for said access without any restrictions.
Click to expand...


Respond to this and do not dismiss it as you have done before, because this IS the crux of the matter:  





> I'm certain if it were not for Muslim women, but for women in general, no one would be making an issue about it.


  And don't lie.  The only reason you are complaining or would ever complain is because this is about Muslim women.


----------



## Indofred

Esmeralda said:


> The only reason you are complaining or would ever complain is because this is about Muslim women.



I disagree.
He'll equally condemn these Baptist women only classes.

Swimming & Diving - News - CBULancers.comOfficial Web Site of California Baptist Athletics

or maybe not.


----------



## Indofred

Some women who want to swim without men are Muslims but some are not.

Seattle News and Events | Seattle Covers Its Windows for Women-Only Swims; Is






The idiots try to make out it's just Muslims.


----------



## Esmeralda

Indofred said:


> Some women who want to swim without men are Muslims but some are not.
> 
> Seattle News and Events | Seattle Covers Its Windows for Women-Only Swims; Is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The idiots try to make out it's just Muslims.



Ironically, I'm from Seattle and the article made me cry: homesickness I guess. I think it's great Seattle pools are doing this.  From the article:



> *The Seattle Office for Civil Rights has received no complaints to date*, says spokesperson Elliott Bronstein. And *Hammerstad, of the parks department, couches the women-only session in terms of preventing discrimination. The reason we began offering women-only swims is because the women who requested it could not avail themselves of the citys amenities due to their religion, she says in a statement. The city was therefore required to make reasonable accommodations. *
> 
> Whats more, she points out, *encouraging women to swim is a public health issue because drowning is a big problem in ethnic communitiesone reason Seattle Childrens Hospital used to give a grant to facilitate women-only swims. For a decade, the hospital and other organizations provided the money that allowed women to rent out the public pools for this purpose. In April, after one of the funders indicated it could no longer afford to do so, the city made the gender-specific swims part of its regular schedules at its Rainier Beach, Medgar Evers, Meadowbrook and Southwest pools*.


----------



## Indofred

Ruddy hell, hundreds of Muslim women have taken over this women only event.
Look at all the covered heads.

Danskin Triathlon takes over Genesee Park Sunday morning | Mercer Island | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News


----------



## Politico

Don't forget the story of the little girl who was told by a cop to 'go beg' for braces money. Gotta love Fox.


----------



## paulitician

Communists/Progressives are such dishonest hypocrites. They're the same wingnuts who are always pushing for Co-Ed Bathrooms in our Schools. So make no mistake about it, they could care less about this Muslim girl. It's really all about their FNDS (Fox News Derangement Syndrome). Fox News is their dreaded Boogeyman. It's one of the very few Media Outlets that doesn't push their Communist/Progressive Party-Line. And that drives them batshit crazy. So don't buy into their phony outrage on this one. They're so full of shite.


----------



## Roudy

Indofred said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The gyms you mentioned are women's only gyms NOT THE YMCA.
> 
> An apartment building is not a gym only, it's a residential building WITH A GYM, and as such with the approval of the board or homeowners can create a schedule which caters to certain groups only.
> 
> Here you are fraudulently taking away access to the pool from a group of people that have clearly paid for said access without any restrictions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Israel Easy: Swimming Lessons
> 
> 
> 
> Carmela also teaches groups of orthodox women
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Group Fitness | Nutrition | Body360
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Body 360 program designed by women for women
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Women's fitness and swimming is common all over the world, even in Roudy's Israel, or are Muslims forcing them to stick to strict Islamic law?
Click to expand...

What's your fucking point?  I am against any religious based women's only at an establishment like the Y. Including Orthodox Jewish Women. However it appears the Jewish women have enough common sense and consideration not to impose like that.

Another totally irrelevant post!


----------



## Roudy

Esmeralda said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some women who want to swim without men are Muslims but some are not.
> 
> Seattle News and Events | Seattle Covers Its Windows for Women-Only Swims; Is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The idiots try to make out it's just Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, I'm from Seattle and the article made me cry: homesickness I guess. I think it's great Seattle pools are doing this.  From the article:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The Seattle Office for Civil Rights has received no complaints to date*, says spokesperson Elliott Bronstein. And *Hammerstad, of the parks department, couches the women-only session in terms of preventing discrimination. The reason we began offering women-only swims is because the women who requested it could not avail themselves of the citys amenities due to their religion, she says in a statement. The city was therefore required to make reasonable accommodations. *
> 
> Whats more, she points out, *encouraging women to swim is a public health issue because drowning is a big problem in ethnic communitiesone reason Seattle Childrens Hospital used to give a grant to facilitate women-only swims. For a decade, the hospital and other organizations provided the money that allowed women to rent out the public pools for this purpose. In April, after one of the funders indicated it could no longer afford to do so, the city made the gender-specific swims part of its regular schedules at its Rainier Beach, Medgar Evers, Meadowbrook and Southwest pools*.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Wow what a bunch of retarded idiots!  Nobody is denying the existence of "women only" swimming. But not at the Y, and because of Islamic sensitivities!


----------



## Roudy

Politico said:


> Don't forget the story of the little girl who was told by a cop to 'go beg' for braces money. Gotta love Fox.


Don't forget the story where an MSNBC host suggested Palin be fed crap. Gotta love the NUTJOB leftie commie networks.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget the story of the little girl who was told by a cop to 'go beg' for braces money. Gotta love Fox.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget the story where an MSNBC host suggested Palin be fed crap. Gotta love the NUTJOB leftie commie networks.
Click to expand...

MSNBC is shit. However saying this does not negate the fact that FOX is shit as well.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Wow what a bunch of retarded idiots!  Nobody is denying the existence of "women only" swimming. But not at the Y, and because of Islamic sensitivities!



Speaking of "retards", aren't you the one that claimed outsiders have a "right" to use someone else's private property in any manner they please?


----------



## Katzndogz

The issue of women only facilities was settled years ago when men started suing sex segregated gyms and winning.

California Family Fitness sued over women-only areas - Sacramento Business Journal

Until it became an islamic issue.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Politico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget the story of the little girl who was told by a cop to 'go beg' for braces money. Gotta love Fox.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget the story where an MSNBC host suggested Palin be fed crap. Gotta love the NUTJOB leftie commie networks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> MSNBC is shit. However saying this does not negate the fact that FOX is shit as well.
Click to expand...

Fox is biased, but still less biased than most of the other networks, including CNN. 

So they're all shit.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow what a bunch of retarded idiots!  Nobody is denying the existence of "women only" swimming. But not at the Y, and because of Islamic sensitivities!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of "retards", aren't you the one that claimed outsiders have a "right" to use someone else's private property in any manner they please?
Click to expand...

Another irrelevant question that has nothing to do with a membership gym that charges dues for its use of its facilities.


----------



## Roudy

Katzndogz said:


> The issue of women only facilities was settled years ago when men started suing sex segregated gyms and winning.
> 
> California Family Fitness sued over women-only areas - Sacramento Business Journal
> 
> Until it became an islamic issue.


 Exactly.


----------



## Againsheila

Indofred said:


> Ruddy hell, hundreds of Muslim women have taken over this women only event.
> Look at all the covered heads.
> 
> Danskin Triathlon takes over Genesee Park Sunday morning | Mercer Island | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News



You do know no one objects to them going to any women's swim class, right?  We only object to having a class specifically for Muslims in an organization that is Christian.  Like I said before, find me one Muslim organization that goes out of it's way to provide for Christians, or Jews.  It's been how long and no one has found even one?  Why do you think the Christians should bend over backwards for the Muslims but the Muslims should discriminate against the Christians?


----------



## Roudy

Againsheila said:


> Indofred said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ruddy hell, hundreds of Muslim women have taken over this women only event.
> Look at all the covered heads.
> 
> Danskin Triathlon takes over Genesee Park Sunday morning | Mercer Island | Seattle News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | KOMO News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do know no one objects to them going to any women's swim class, right?  We only object to having a class specifically for Muslims in an organization that is Christian.  Like I said before, find me one Muslim organization that goes out of it's way to provide for Christians, or Jews.  It's been how long and no one has found even one?  Why do you think the Christians should bend over backwards for the Muslims but the Muslims should discriminate against the Christians?
Click to expand...

Yes I asked this question too. Would Muslims have one hour swim sessions for Christian women who can wear NORMAL swimwear?  Right after they kill kill them, of course. Ha ha.  

They're always asking others to do things they do the exact opposite of.


----------



## Coyote

Sunni Man said:


> OK, I'm going to let the cat out of the bag.
> 
> It's absolutely true we muslims are engaging in 'creeping sharia'.
> 
> All mosques have a master list of creeping sharia goals that are distributed to members weekly.
> 
> Having a muslim women swim hour at the YMCA is #426 on the list for total domination of America.
> 
> True story..........



I knew it!!!!!  I saw your manifesto posted on the Walmart bulletin board!!!!!


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far I remember, there was no movement for a women's only swimming at the Y or any gym I ever attended.  As a matter of fact, *gyms are a good place for single people to meet other single people with similar interests, *so if anything, most members would be totally against this.
> 
> But of course, this is not about that at all is it?  For you it's about defending everything and anything Islam, as it always has been.  What you are infamous for on this board.
> 
> 
> 
> *Not necessarily*.  A lot, a good proportion of women do no like working out where there are men. They are more than annoyed with men who think gyms are a good place to meet or pick up women.  Women want to be able to workout without being watched and hit on.  There are many, many gyms that have women's only sections as well a thousands of women's only gyms because so many women want a place to work out where men don't bother them.  I think if  you believe going to the gym means it is a good place to meet women, you might very well be considered a pest by those those women because they would prefer it if you just left them alone.
> 
> Where I  lived in Austria, the gym I belonged to had a women's only workout room. You had to walk through the bigger, co-ed gym to get to it and it was like walking the plank or something, half the men in there would be watching you just walking from the entrance to the co-ed gym to the entrance to the women's locker room, which led to the women's only gym,  and I wasn't even dressed down for a workout yet.  How annoying is that?  Also, while I lived there, someone built a women's only gym a few blocks from where I lived, but that was after I had joined the other gym and was on an inexpensive, year to year contract.  Also, generally, women's only gyms are not as well fitted out as the co-ed gyms.  The point is, gyms for women to be able to workout w/o men around are everywhere.  This is true of the States too.
> 
> Where I live now, the building has a separate women's only gym and has 4 hours, 3 x a week in the indoor pool that is reserved for women and children.  It isn't that men are going to do anything to you, it is that they watch you constantly and stare at you.  Sometimes you just want to relax and not feel you are on show.
> 
> A woman's only hour one time a week at a YMCA pool seems like practically nothing to me. Why you people make such a huge deal about it says something really problematic about  you, not about the restrictive beliefs Muslim women hold.  I'm certain if it were not for Muslim women, but for women in general, no one would be making an issue about it.  Three percent of the US population is Muslim. They are not taking over.  It's just sick to think so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The gyms you mentioned are women's only gyms NOT THE YMCA.
> 
> An apartment building is not a gym only, it's a residential building WITH A GYM, and as such with the approval of the board or homeowners can create a schedule which caters to certain groups only.
> 
> Here you are fraudulently taking away access to the pool from a group of people that have clearly paid for said access without any restrictions.
Click to expand...


What the hell Roudy - you are just digging yourself in deeper and deeper here.

YMCA is a PRIVATE - read - PRIVATE entity - like the gym of a residential unit.  It has a board, a manager, a membership that reflects the community in much the same way a residential unit's gym reflects the residents.  The Y serves the needs of it's membership, the community (through it's outreach efforts) and it's mission statement.  It can cater to certain groups if it wants and if it feels it's in the best interest of it's business and mission.

The more you try to make it out to be different than any other private entity the more ridiculous your position becomes.

If this involved public money you'd have a better argument.  If you were arguing about gender discrimmination in general - then you might have a stronger position, though then you'd have to look at gender discrimmination across the board.  

But you are trying to make it about "Shariah" even though it's a women-only swim hour, open to any women and there is no requirement for "Shariah" style swimwear.  The only requirements are what are posted in the general swimming rules for what can be worn etc.  You keep insisting otherwise but post nothing to support your claim.

And in the end - it's a PRIVATE group.  They can do what they want within the law.


----------



## Sunni Man

Againsheila said:


> Like I said before, find me one Muslim organization that goes out of it's way to provide for Christians, or Jews.  It's been how long and no one has found even one?  Why do you think the Christians should bend over backwards for the Muslims but the Muslims should discriminate against the Christians?


My local mosque is a member of Islamic Relief USA.

Which is a muslim national disaster relief organization that helped with the recovery efforts after Hurricane Sandy, the tornado's this summer in Oklahoma, and most recently the typhoon that destroyed much of the Philippines.

All of the funds are donations from the muslim community. 

They help anyone regardless of race or religion.    ....   

Donation Funds ? Islamic Relief USA


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow what a bunch of retarded idiots!  Nobody is denying the existence of "women only" swimming. But not at the Y, and because of Islamic sensitivities!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of "retards", aren't you the one that claimed outsiders have a "right" to use someone else's private property in any manner they please?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another irrelevant question that has nothing to do with a membership gym that charges dues for its use of its facilities.
Click to expand...


Yes, it charges dues to use the facilities, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all areas will be available to all people at all times. At the gym I belong to there is a stationary bike room and a general stretching/yoga room. Both those areas are periodically "closed" to general members for women's only bike/yoga classes. 

Are you saying my gym is breaking the law?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Yes I asked this question too. *Would Muslims have one hour swim sessions for Christian women who can wear NORMAL swimwear?*  Right after they kill kill them, of course. Ha ha.
> 
> They're always asking others to do things they do the exact opposite of.



They might or they might not.

There are churches, synagogues and mosques that have community centers and access to pools.  My guess is that since they are private religious organizations - who it is open to and who it isn't varies considerably.  None of them are required to be open to non-members and each has the right to impose it's own standards of dress code.  Are you insisting otherwise?

In addition, communities and groups have the right to schedule things in accordance to their memberships needs and the desires of their community.

Consider this for example: At Parkland, a mitzvah in the pool | Reach For The Wall



> Nestled in a grove of trees off Arcola Avenue in Kemp Mill, Parkland Swim Club hosts one of the Montgomery County Swim League&#8217;s most distinctive summer swim teams.
> 
> Coach Erin Waller estimates that more than half of the 55-swimmer roster of the Parkland Whales, members of the MCSL since 1960 and among the oldest of the league&#8217;s 89 active teams, are Modern Orthodox Jews. *The MCSL allows Parkland to schedule its A-meets for weekday evenings so that Jewish swimmers and parents may observe Sabbath on Saturday mornings. The team maintains a kosher grill for home meets and picnics.*
> 
> *The team is a product of its community*. A relatively small, rectangular plot of land enclosed by a chain-link fence comprises the private swim club.  Across the fence stands Kemp Mill Shopping Center, which includes a kosher pizzeria, bakery and market.  Young Israel Shomrai Emunah Synagogue lies adjacent to the narrow driveway that leads to the pool, and a Hebrew college, high school, day school and community center also line Arcola Avenue.
> 
> *At Parkland, religious bonds and education solidify friendships and help forge new ones. * &#8221;The unity between the people here, Jews and non-Jews, is something special,&#8221; team parent Debbie Hagger-Katz said.



Is this kind of thing so bad?  Isn't it a good way to encourage a better understanding between people of different faiths and backgrounds?  How is this different than setting aside a an hour of week so immigrant Somali girls can learn to swim, socialize freely with other girls, gain confidence and integrate better into their communities?   It's not just traditional Muslims, but Orthodox Jews and quite a number of Christian sects that impose standards of modest dress and gender segregation on it's members.  Ironically - the place in the article is around where I grew up, a very diverse community.


----------



## Againsheila

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said before, find me one Muslim organization that goes out of it's way to provide for Christians, or Jews.  It's been how long and no one has found even one?  Why do you think the Christians should bend over backwards for the Muslims but the Muslims should discriminate against the Christians?
> 
> 
> 
> My local mosque is a member of Islamic Relief USA.
> 
> Which is a muslim national disaster relief organization that helped with the recovery efforts after Hurricane Sandy, the tornado's this summer in Oklahoma, and most recently the typhoon that destroyed much of the Philippines.
> 
> All of the funds are donations from the muslim community.
> 
> They help anyone regardless of race or religion.    ....
> 
> Donation Funds ? Islamic Relief USA
Click to expand...


still, not specifically aimed at helping Christians, is it?  Remember, no one is objecting to the Y having classes for everyone, just classes aimed specifically at Muslims.


----------



## Againsheila

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I asked this question too. *Would Muslims have one hour swim sessions for Christian women who can wear NORMAL swimwear?*  Right after they kill kill them, of course. Ha ha.
> 
> They're always asking others to do things they do the exact opposite of.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They might or they might not.
> 
> There are churches, synagogues and mosques that have community centers and access to pools.  My guess is that since they are private religious organizations - who it is open to and who it isn't varies considerably.  None of them are required to be open to non-members and each has the right to impose it's own standards of dress code.  Are you insisting otherwise?
> 
> In addition, communities and groups have the right to schedule things in accordance to their memberships needs and the desires of their community.
> 
> Consider this for example: At Parkland, a mitzvah in the pool | Reach For The Wall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nestled in a grove of trees off Arcola Avenue in Kemp Mill, Parkland Swim Club hosts one of the Montgomery County Swim Leagues most distinctive summer swim teams.
> 
> Coach Erin Waller estimates that more than half of the 55-swimmer roster of the Parkland Whales, members of the MCSL since 1960 and among the oldest of the leagues 89 active teams, are Modern Orthodox Jews. *The MCSL allows Parkland to schedule its A-meets for weekday evenings so that Jewish swimmers and parents may observe Sabbath on Saturday mornings. The team maintains a kosher grill for home meets and picnics.*
> 
> *The team is a product of its community*. A relatively small, rectangular plot of land enclosed by a chain-link fence comprises the private swim club.  Across the fence stands Kemp Mill Shopping Center, which includes a kosher pizzeria, bakery and market.  Young Israel Shomrai Emunah Synagogue lies adjacent to the narrow driveway that leads to the pool, and a Hebrew college, high school, day school and community center also line Arcola Avenue.
> 
> *At Parkland, religious bonds and education solidify friendships and help forge new ones. * The unity between the people here, Jews and non-Jews, is something special, team parent Debbie Hagger-Katz said.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is this kind of thing so bad?  Isn't it a good way to encourage a better understanding between people of different faiths and backgrounds?  How is this different than setting aside a an hour of week so immigrant Somali girls can learn to swim, socialize freely with other girls, gain confidence and integrate better into their communities?   It's not just traditional Muslims, but Orthodox Jews and quite a number of Christian sects that impose standards of modest dress and gender segregation on it's members.  Ironically - the place in the article is around where I grew up, a very diverse community.
Click to expand...


Yes, it is so bad, because it's exclusion, not inclusion.


----------



## Sunni Man

Againsheila said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said before, find me one Muslim organization that goes out of it's way to provide for Christians, or Jews.  It's been how long and no one has found even one?  Why do you think the Christians should bend over backwards for the Muslims but the Muslims should discriminate against the Christians?
> 
> 
> 
> My local mosque is a member of Islamic Relief USA.
> 
> Which is a muslim national disaster relief organization that helped with the recovery efforts after Hurricane Sandy, the tornado's this summer in Oklahoma, and most recently the typhoon that destroyed much of the Philippines.
> 
> All of the funds are donations from the muslim community.
> 
> They help anyone regardless of race or religion.    ....
> 
> Donation Funds ? Islamic Relief USA
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> still, not specifically aimed at helping Christians, is it?
Click to expand...

Actually, it was, because the Philippine people are mainly Catholic christians.

And Oklahoma is predominately Baptist and with barely any muslims.   ....


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Not necessarily*.  A lot, a good proportion of women do no like working out where there are men. They are more than annoyed with men who think gyms are a good place to meet or pick up women.  Women want to be able to workout without being watched and hit on.  There are many, many gyms that have women's only sections as well a thousands of women's only gyms because so many women want a place to work out where men don't bother them.  I think if  you believe going to the gym means it is a good place to meet women, you might very well be considered a pest by those those women because they would prefer it if you just left them alone.
> 
> Where I  lived in Austria, the gym I belonged to had a women's only workout room. You had to walk through the bigger, co-ed gym to get to it and it was like walking the plank or something, half the men in there would be watching you just walking from the entrance to the co-ed gym to the entrance to the women's locker room, which led to the women's only gym,  and I wasn't even dressed down for a workout yet.  How annoying is that?  Also, while I lived there, someone built a women's only gym a few blocks from where I lived, but that was after I had joined the other gym and was on an inexpensive, year to year contract.  Also, generally, women's only gyms are not as well fitted out as the co-ed gyms.  The point is, gyms for women to be able to workout w/o men around are everywhere.  This is true of the States too.
> 
> Where I live now, the building has a separate women's only gym and has 4 hours, 3 x a week in the indoor pool that is reserved for women and children.  It isn't that men are going to do anything to you, it is that they watch you constantly and stare at you.  Sometimes you just want to relax and not feel you are on show.
> 
> A woman's only hour one time a week at a YMCA pool seems like practically nothing to me. Why you people make such a huge deal about it says something really problematic about  you, not about the restrictive beliefs Muslim women hold.  I'm certain if it were not for Muslim women, but for women in general, no one would be making an issue about it.  Three percent of the US population is Muslim. They are not taking over.  It's just sick to think so.
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The gyms you mentioned are women's only gyms NOT THE YMCA.
> 
> An apartment building is not a gym only, it's a residential building WITH A GYM, and as such with the approval of the board or homeowners can create a schedule which caters to certain groups only.
> 
> Here you are fraudulently taking away access to the pool from a group of people that have clearly paid for said access without any restrictions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell Roudy - you are just digging yourself in deeper and deeper here.
> 
> YMCA is a PRIVATE - read - PRIVATE entity - like the gym of a residential unit.  It has a board, a manager, a membership that reflects the community in much the same way a residential unit's gym reflects the residents.  The Y serves the needs of it's membership, the community (through it's outreach efforts) and it's mission statement.  It can cater to certain groups if it wants and if it feels it's in the best interest of it's business and mission.
> 
> The more you try to make it out to be different than any other private entity the more ridiculous your position becomes.
> 
> If this involved public money you'd have a better argument.  If you were arguing about gender discrimmination in general - then you might have a stronger position, though then you'd have to look at gender discrimmination across the board.
> 
> But you are trying to make it about "Shariah" even though it's a women-only swim hour, open to any women and there is no requirement for "Shariah" style swimwear.  The only requirements are what are posted in the general swimming rules for what can be worn etc.  You keep insisting otherwise but post nothing to support your claim.
> 
> And in the end - it's a PRIVATE group.  They can do what they want within the law.
Click to expand...

You really can't be that dumb. Maybe you're dumb enough to compare an apartment building to a nationwide gym with 2600 branches that sells monthly membership for usage of its gym, and even dumber to think that people will fall for your asinine comparison.


----------



## Roudy

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> My local mosque is a member of Islamic Relief USA.
> 
> Which is a muslim national disaster relief organization that helped with the recovery efforts after Hurricane Sandy, the tornado's this summer in Oklahoma, and most recently the typhoon that destroyed much of the Philippines.
> 
> All of the funds are donations from the muslim community.
> 
> They help anyone regardless of race or religion.    ....
> 
> Donation Funds ? Islamic Relief USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still, not specifically aimed at helping Christians, is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it was, because the Philippine people are mainly Catholic christians.
> 
> And Oklahoma is predominately Baptist and with barely any muslims.   ....
Click to expand...

Shariah Sunni Shmuck cannot show an example where Muslims showed tolerance and acceptance by letting women walk around Western style swimsuits in an Islamic or Muslim based establishment, so he keeps bringing up a "Philippine disaster relief fund".


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The gyms you mentioned are women's only gyms NOT THE YMCA.
> 
> An apartment building is not a gym only, it's a residential building WITH A GYM, and as such with the approval of the board or homeowners can create a schedule which caters to certain groups only.
> 
> Here you are fraudulently taking away access to the pool from a group of people that have clearly paid for said access without any restrictions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell Roudy - you are just digging yourself in deeper and deeper here.
> 
> YMCA is a PRIVATE - read - PRIVATE entity - like the gym of a residential unit.  It has a board, a manager, a membership that reflects the community in much the same way a residential unit's gym reflects the residents.  The Y serves the needs of it's membership, the community (through it's outreach efforts) and it's mission statement.  It can cater to certain groups if it wants and if it feels it's in the best interest of it's business and mission.
> 
> The more you try to make it out to be different than any other private entity the more ridiculous your position becomes.
> 
> If this involved public money you'd have a better argument.  If you were arguing about gender discrimmination in general - then you might have a stronger position, though then you'd have to look at gender discrimmination across the board.
> 
> But you are trying to make it about "Shariah" even though it's a women-only swim hour, open to any women and there is no requirement for "Shariah" style swimwear.  The only requirements are what are posted in the general swimming rules for what can be worn etc.  You keep insisting otherwise but post nothing to support your claim.
> 
> And in the end - it's a PRIVATE group.  They can do what they want within the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really can't be that dumb. Maybe you're dumb enough to compare an apartment building to a nationwide gym with 2600 branches that sells monthly membership for usage of its gym, and even dumber to think that people will fall for your asinine comparison.
Click to expand...


Roudy, a private enterprise is a private enterprise - whether it's a mom and pop   institution or a multi-national franchise.


----------



## Roudy

Sunni Man said:


> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> My local mosque is a member of Islamic Relief USA.
> 
> Which is a muslim national disaster relief organization that helped with the recovery efforts after Hurricane Sandy, the tornado's this summer in Oklahoma, and most recently the typhoon that destroyed much of the Philippines.
> 
> All of the funds are donations from the muslim community.
> 
> They help anyone regardless of race or religion.    ....
> 
> Donation Funds ? Islamic Relief USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still, not specifically aimed at helping Christians, is it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually, it was, because the Philippine people are mainly Catholic christians.
> 
> And Oklahoma is predominately Baptist and with barely any muslims.   ....
Click to expand...

Now tell us all the Islamic terrorism that Muslims in the Philippines do upon the Christians there. Be honest. Is the Philippines some Muslim ancestral homeland as well that they think they can go around slaughtering the Christians there?  What's their excuse now?


----------



## Sunni Man

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man cannot show an example where Muslims showed tolerance and acceptance by letting women walk around Western style swimsuits in an Islamic or Muslim based establishment.


Correct.

We have modesty attire standards.  

So it ain't gonna happen.    ....


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> still, not specifically aimed at helping Christians, is it?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it was, because the Philippine people are mainly Catholic christians.
> 
> And Oklahoma is predominately Baptist and with barely any muslims.   ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shariah Sunni Shmuck cannot show an example where Muslims showed tolerance and acceptance by letting women walk around Western style swimsuits in an Islamic or Muslim based establishment, so he keeps bringing up a "Philippine disaster relief fund".
Click to expand...


What kind of point are you trying to make Roudy?  Grasping at straws here a bit?

What private religious groups do in their own facilities (as long as they aren't breaking the law) - is up to them.  They can impose any sort of dress code they want - whether they are Muslim, Orthodox Jewish, Baptist, Amish etc. - and I am sure the more conservative groups DO have a dress code.  So what?


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell Roudy - you are just digging yourself in deeper and deeper here.
> 
> YMCA is a PRIVATE - read - PRIVATE entity - like the gym of a residential unit.  It has a board, a manager, a membership that reflects the community in much the same way a residential unit's gym reflects the residents.  The Y serves the needs of it's membership, the community (through it's outreach efforts) and it's mission statement.  It can cater to certain groups if it wants and if it feels it's in the best interest of it's business and mission.
> 
> The more you try to make it out to be different than any other private entity the more ridiculous your position becomes.
> 
> If this involved public money you'd have a better argument.  If you were arguing about gender discrimmination in general - then you might have a stronger position, though then you'd have to look at gender discrimmination across the board.
> 
> But you are trying to make it about "Shariah" even though it's a women-only swim hour, open to any women and there is no requirement for "Shariah" style swimwear.  The only requirements are what are posted in the general swimming rules for what can be worn etc.  You keep insisting otherwise but post nothing to support your claim.
> 
> And in the end - it's a PRIVATE group.  They can do what they want within the law.
> 
> 
> 
> You really can't be that dumb. Maybe you're dumb enough to compare an apartment building to a nationwide gym with 2600 branches that sells monthly membership for usage of its gym, and even dumber to think that people will fall for your asinine comparison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roudy, a private enterprise is a private enterprise - whether it's a mom and pop   institution or a multi-national franchise.
Click to expand...

An apartment building is the same as a nationwide gym?  Maybe in your Islam apologist mind. Hotels rent their ballrooms all the time for specific purposes. That's the same as the Y as well?  IDIOT.


----------



## Roudy

Sunni Man said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man cannot show an example where Muslims showed tolerance and acceptance by letting women walk around Western style swimsuits in an Islamic or Muslim based establishment.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.
> 
> We have modesty attire standards.
> 
> So it ain't gonna happen.    ....
Click to expand...

So your standards cannot be violated, no flexibility there.  But you demand flexibility from others. No more questions.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Againsheila said:
> 
> 
> 
> still, not specifically aimed at helping Christians, is it?
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it was, because the Philippine people are mainly Catholic christians.
> 
> And Oklahoma is predominately Baptist and with barely any muslims.   ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now tell us all the Islamic terrorism that Muslims in the Philippines do upon the Christians there. Be honest. Is the Philippines some Muslim ancestral homeland as well that they think they can go around slaughtering the Christians there?  What's their excuse now?
Click to expand...


Which has what to do with the local police department and the Y teaming up to give a group of Somali-American girls an hour of swim time?  Did those little girls slaughter a bunch of Christians that you should hate them so?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man cannot show an example where Muslims showed tolerance and acceptance by letting women walk around Western style swimsuits in an Islamic or Muslim based establishment.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.
> 
> We have modesty attire standards.
> 
> So it ain't gonna happen.    ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So your standards cannot be violated, no flexibility there.  But you demand flexibility from others. No more questions.
Click to expand...


I don't think he's demanding any flexability from others - merely that you respect the rights of private establishments to do what they wish with their business and on their property.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really can't be that dumb. Maybe you're dumb enough to compare an apartment building to a nationwide gym with 2600 branches that sells monthly membership for usage of its gym, and even dumber to think that people will fall for your asinine comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy, a private enterprise is a private enterprise - whether it's a mom and pop   institution or a multi-national franchise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> An apartment building is the same as a nationwide gym?  Maybe in your Islam apologist mind. Hotels rent their ballrooms all the time for specific purposes. That's the same as the Y as well?  IDIOT.
Click to expand...


Are you claiming that some private enterprises are allowed to do what they want with their business and on their property and other's can't?  On what basis?


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it was, because the Philippine people are mainly Catholic christians.
> 
> And Oklahoma is predominately Baptist and with barely any muslims.   ....
> 
> 
> 
> Shariah Sunni Shmuck cannot show an example where Muslims showed tolerance and acceptance by letting women walk around Western style swimsuits in an Islamic or Muslim based establishment, so he keeps bringing up a "Philippine disaster relief fund".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What kind of point are you trying to make Roudy?  Grasping at straws here a bit?
> 
> What private religious groups do in their own facilities (as long as they aren't breaking the law) - is up to them.  They can impose any sort of dress code they want - whether they are Muslim, Orthodox Jewish, Baptist, Amish etc. - and I am sure the more conservative groups DO have a dress code.  So what?
Click to expand...

No idiot, when a private Christian group sells access to its gym in exchange for membership dues and then forbids a group of members that access to appease ISLAMIC sensitivities, that is fraud, and violating the codes of the establishment.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it was, because the Philippine people are mainly Catholic christians.
> 
> And Oklahoma is predominately Baptist and with barely any muslims.   ....
> 
> 
> 
> Now tell us all the Islamic terrorism that Muslims in the Philippines do upon the Christians there. Be honest. Is the Philippines some Muslim ancestral homeland as well that they think they can go around slaughtering the Christians there?  What's their excuse now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which has what to do with the local police department and the Y teaming up to give a group of Somali-American girls an hour of swim time?  Did those little girls slaughter a bunch of Christians that you should hate them so?
Click to expand...

The girls want to impose their values and their culture upon the y which is inconsistent with its values, policy, and takes away the rights of other members. It doesn't matter who they team up with. And as prior case law shown by Sheila, they are committing fraud.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shariah Sunni Shmuck cannot show an example where Muslims showed tolerance and acceptance by letting women walk around Western style swimsuits in an Islamic or Muslim based establishment, so he keeps bringing up a "Philippine disaster relief fund".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of point are you trying to make Roudy?  Grasping at straws here a bit?
> 
> What private religious groups do in their own facilities (as long as they aren't breaking the law) - is up to them.  They can impose any sort of dress code they want - whether they are Muslim, Orthodox Jewish, Baptist, Amish etc. - and I am sure the more conservative groups DO have a dress code.  So what?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No idiot, when a private Christian group sells access to its gym in exchange for membership dues and then forbids a group of members that access to appease ISLAMIC sensitivities, that fraud, and violating the codes of the establishment.
Click to expand...


A private group has decided to set aside one hour a week for a women-only swim.  That's it.  One hour a week.

They can do it.

Just like a gym can close it's work out room for a women-only class should it choose.
Just like restaurants can require a dress code.

And there is nothing wrong with any of it.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now tell us all the Islamic terrorism that Muslims in the Philippines do upon the Christians there. Be honest. Is the Philippines some Muslim ancestral homeland as well that they think they can go around slaughtering the Christians there?  What's their excuse now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which has what to do with the local police department and the Y teaming up to give a group of Somali-American girls an hour of swim time?  Did those little girls slaughter a bunch of Christians that you should hate them so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The girls want to impose their values and their culture upon the y which is inconsistent with its values, policy, and takes away the rights of other members. It doesn't matter who they team up with. And as prior case law shown by Sheila, they are committing fraud.
Click to expand...


Those little girls aren't imposing anything.  Did you miss the part about the YMCA and the Police teaming up to put together this initiative?


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy, a private enterprise is a private enterprise - whether it's a mom and pop   institution or a multi-national franchise.
> 
> 
> 
> An apartment building is the same as a nationwide gym?  Maybe in your Islam apologist mind. Hotels rent their ballrooms all the time for specific purposes. That's the same as the Y as well?  IDIOT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you claiming that some private enterprises are allowed to do what they want with their business and on their property and other's can't?  On what basis?
Click to expand...

Private enterprises enter into agreements.  Duh.  This is not consistent with what the y is supposed to do. 

Look, you think it's okay for men who are paying monthly fees to show up to use the pool in a Christian based establishment, to be turned away because some Muslims think their religious right to forbid said usage supersedes the rights of those members, and I don't. 

In other words, you will defend Islam at all costs.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of point are you trying to make Roudy?  Grasping at straws here a bit?
> 
> What private religious groups do in their own facilities (as long as they aren't breaking the law) - is up to them.  They can impose any sort of dress code they want - whether they are Muslim, Orthodox Jewish, Baptist, Amish etc. - and I am sure the more conservative groups DO have a dress code.  So what?
> 
> 
> 
> No idiot, when a private Christian group sells access to its gym in exchange for membership dues and then forbids a group of members that access to appease ISLAMIC sensitivities, that fraud, and violating the codes of the establishment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A private group has decided to set aside one hour a week for a women-only swim.  That's it.  One hour a week.
> 
> They can do it.
> 
> Just like a gym can close it's work out room for a women-only class should it choose.
> Just like restaurants can require a dress code.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with any of it.
Click to expand...

No they can't do it.  It violates their agreement with a group of people who are paying membership fees.  Why do they have clear the entire pool?  Why can't they use certain lanes like all other classes?  Are they somehow special?  They want their cake and they want to eat it too. You want swim classes?  Swim with everybody else like all other members?  You're too fucken fat or your religion forbids you?  Too fucking bad.  You don't get to kick the men members out because of that.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which has what to do with the local police department and the Y teaming up to give a group of Somali-American girls an hour of swim time?  Did those little girls slaughter a bunch of Christians that you should hate them so?
> 
> 
> 
> The girls want to impose their values and their culture upon the y which is inconsistent with its values, policy, and takes away the rights of other members. It doesn't matter who they team up with. And as prior case law shown by Sheila, they are committing fraud.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those little girls aren't imposing anything.  Did you miss the part about the YMCA and the Police teaming up to put together this initiative?
Click to expand...

No they're not. They are causing the y to forbid all men entry and usage of the pool. How inconsiderate and selfish.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunni Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.
> 
> We have modesty attire standards.
> 
> So it ain't gonna happen.    ....
> 
> 
> 
> So your standards cannot be violated, no flexibility there.  But you demand flexibility from others. No more questions.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't think he's demanding any flexability from others - merely that you respect the rights of private establishments to do what they wish with their business and on their property.
Click to expand...

So you also can't show any instance where Muslims have set aside their values to show tolerance towards other faiths.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No idiot, when a private Christian group sells access to its gym in exchange for membership dues and then forbids a group of members that access to appease ISLAMIC sensitivities, that fraud, and violating the codes of the establishment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A private group has decided to set aside one hour a week for a women-only swim.  That's it.  One hour a week.
> 
> They can do it.
> 
> Just like a gym can close it's work out room for a women-only class should it choose.
> Just like restaurants can require a dress code.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with any of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No they can't do it.  It violates their agreement with a group of people who are paying membership fees.
Click to expand...


How does it violate their agreement Roudy?  You keep saying that but you never provide a shred of evidence.



> Why do they have clear the entire pool?  Why can't they use certain lanes like all other classes?  Are they somehow special?


1. because the owners of the enterprise choose to
2. because the owners of the enterprise choose not to
3. no



> They want their cake and they want to eat it too. You want swim classes?  Swim with everybody else like all other members?  You're too fucken fat or your religion forbids you?  Too fucking bad.  You don't get to kick the men members out because of that.



Or, you can decide, as a member, that it's no effing big deal to let this program helping these Somali girls continue with their 1 hour a week swim session because it doesn't affect your access, it's in line with the companies mission to serve, and it's within their rights to do so.

Or, you can decide to quit your membership and find yourself another gym because that one hour a week that you aren't allowed there is so onerous and discrimminatory that you can't stay.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So your standards cannot be violated, no flexibility there.  But you demand flexibility from others. No more questions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think he's demanding any flexability from others - merely that you respect the rights of private establishments to do what they wish with their business and on their property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you also can't show any instance where Muslims have set aside their values to show tolerance towards other faiths.
Click to expand...


Which has what to do with what private establishments do with their property?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The girls want to impose their values and their culture upon the y which is inconsistent with its values, policy, and takes away the rights of other members. It doesn't matter who they team up with. And as prior case law shown by Sheila, they are committing fraud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those little girls aren't imposing anything.  Did you miss the part about the YMCA and the Police teaming up to put together this initiative?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No they're not. They are causing the y to forbid all men entry and usage of the pool. How inconsiderate and selfish.
Click to expand...


Isn't it just!  1 hour a week that's just women and girls in a privately run establishment.  God forbid!


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of "retards", aren't you the one that claimed outsiders have a "right" to use someone else's private property in any manner they please?
> 
> 
> 
> Another irrelevant question that has nothing to do with a membership gym that charges dues for its use of its facilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, it charges dues to use the facilities, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all areas will be available to all people at all times. At the gym I belong to there is a stationary bike room and a general stretching/yoga room. Both those areas are periodically "closed" to general members for women's only bike/yoga classes.
> 
> Are you saying my gym is breaking the law?
Click to expand...

Never seen a gym have women's only anything. Other than sports leagues. Which is for a different reason.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> An apartment building is the same as a nationwide gym?  Maybe in your Islam apologist mind. Hotels rent their ballrooms all the time for specific purposes. That's the same as the Y as well?  IDIOT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you claiming that some private enterprises are allowed to do what they want with their business and on their property and other's can't?  On what basis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Private enterprises enter into agreements.  Duh.  *This is not consistent with what the y is supposed to do. *
Click to expand...


According to what exactly?



> Look, you think it's okay for men who are paying monthly fees to show up to use the pool in a Christian based establishment, to be turned away because some Muslims think their religious right to forbid said usage supersedes the rights of those members, and I don't.



Paying a fee does not guarantee 24/7 access to all facilities unless it's expressly stated in your membership plan.  

So yes, I think it's ok.  I'd feel the same way for a mens only hour, children only hour, whatever.

You have yet to show how it is that the Y can not do this but it's ok for an apartment gym complex to do so.  You're position is wildly inconsistent to say the least.



> In other words, you will defend Islam at all costs.



In other words, you have yet to make a logical argument


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> An apartment building is the same as a nationwide gym?  Maybe in your Islam apologist mind. Hotels rent their ballrooms all the time for specific purposes. That's the same as the Y as well?  IDIOT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you claiming that some private enterprises are allowed to do what they want with their business and on their property and other's can't?  On what basis?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Private enterprises enter into agreements.  Duh.  This is not consistent with what the y is supposed to do.
> 
> Look, you think it's okay for men who are paying monthly fees to show up to use the pool in a Christian based establishment, to be turned away because some Muslims think their religious right to forbid said usage supersedes the rights of those members, and I don't.
> 
> In other words, you will defend Islam at all costs.
Click to expand...


Thats a ridiculous conclusion. 

Religious rights apply only to government restrictions, not private entities such as the YMCA. 

And as a private entity the Y is at liberty to have whomever it wishes as members. See: _BSA v. Dale_ (2000). It is at liberty to be open whatever hours it wishes and to allocate resources to whomever it wishes in whatever fashion. 

This as nothing to do with defending Islam, as, again, there are no religious rights issues in play; this is a contrived controversy and a non-issue.


----------



## Politico

Roudy said:


> Politico said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget the story of the little girl who was told by a cop to 'go beg' for braces money. Gotta love Fox.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget the story where an MSNBC host suggested Palin be fed crap. Gotta love the NUTJOB leftie commie networks.
Click to expand...


Wow not even related events.


----------



## paulitician

Wow, are people still feeding the Communist/Progressive Trolls on this one? Look it's real simple, it's not about this Muslim girl. It's really all about their FNDS (Fox News Derangement Syndrome). And i'm pretty sure if it were a Christian girl requesting this, these same Communists/Progressives would be outraged over her request. You can bet they would not support her. Because we all know Communists/Progressives have a bizarre 'Hate Christian' fetish. They're not very honest people. Stop feeding the Trolls.


----------



## paulitician

And ya gotta love preachy Nutters who dutifully watch a Network that boasts about wanting to defecate on a Woman for merely holding different political views. Seriously, MNBC nutter viewers have no right preaching to anyone about anything. No credibility whatsoever. I think Whoopi Goldberg just offered Bashir a job on The View.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bqEZYQF5Xo]"Whoopi's Goldberg" FART REMIX - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## High_Gravity

Bashir is a scumbag.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Blah blah blah.  The gyms you mentioned are women's only gyms NOT THE YMCA.
> 
> An apartment building is not a gym only, it's a residential building WITH A GYM, and as such with the approval of the board or homeowners can create a schedule which caters to certain groups only.
> 
> Here you are fraudulently taking away access to the pool from a group of people that have clearly paid for said access without any restrictions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell Roudy - you are just digging yourself in deeper and deeper here.
> 
> YMCA is a PRIVATE - read - PRIVATE entity - like the gym of a residential unit.  It has a board, a manager, a membership that reflects the community in much the same way a residential unit's gym reflects the residents.  The Y serves the needs of it's membership, the community (through it's outreach efforts) and it's mission statement.  It can cater to certain groups if it wants and if it feels it's in the best interest of it's business and mission.
> 
> The more you try to make it out to be different than any other private entity the more ridiculous your position becomes.
> 
> If this involved public money you'd have a better argument.  If you were arguing about gender discrimmination in general - then you might have a stronger position, though then you'd have to look at gender discrimmination across the board.
> 
> But you are trying to make it about "Shariah" even though it's a women-only swim hour, open to any women and there is no requirement for "Shariah" style swimwear.  The only requirements are what are posted in the general swimming rules for what can be worn etc.  You keep insisting otherwise but post nothing to support your claim.
> 
> And in the end - it's a PRIVATE group.  They can do what they want within the law.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You really can't be that dumb. Maybe you're dumb enough to compare an apartment building to a nationwide gym with 2600 branches that sells monthly membership for usage of its gym, and even dumber to think that people will fall for your asinine comparison.
Click to expand...


Would you be able to answer these questions directly?

1.) Is the YMCA a privately run entity?

2.) Would a private entity have the authority to set the rules, hours, and accessibility of a pool it owns? And if no, who should decide - outsiders? The Government?


.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell Roudy - you are just digging yourself in deeper and deeper here.
> 
> YMCA is a PRIVATE - read - PRIVATE entity - like the gym of a residential unit.  It has a board, a manager, a membership that reflects the community in much the same way a residential unit's gym reflects the residents.  The Y serves the needs of it's membership, the community (through it's outreach efforts) and it's mission statement.  It can cater to certain groups if it wants and if it feels it's in the best interest of it's business and mission.
> 
> The more you try to make it out to be different than any other private entity the more ridiculous your position becomes.
> 
> If this involved public money you'd have a better argument.  If you were arguing about gender discrimmination in general - then you might have a stronger position, though then you'd have to look at gender discrimmination across the board.
> 
> But you are trying to make it about "Shariah" even though it's a women-only swim hour, open to any women and there is no requirement for "Shariah" style swimwear.  The only requirements are what are posted in the general swimming rules for what can be worn etc.  You keep insisting otherwise but post nothing to support your claim.
> 
> And in the end - it's a PRIVATE group.  They can do what they want within the law.
> 
> 
> 
> You really can't be that dumb. Maybe you're dumb enough to compare an apartment building to a nationwide gym with 2600 branches that sells monthly membership for usage of its gym, and even dumber to think that people will fall for your asinine comparison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would you be able to answer these questions directly?
> 
> 1.) Is the YMCA a privately run entity?
> 
> 2.) Would a private entity have the authority to set the rules, hours, and accessibility of a pool it owns? And if no, who should decide - outsiders? The Government?
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Is a private entity allowed to screw people for a service it's supposed to provide.  No it can't. And that's why the manager of that branch should get his ass fired.  And there's a definite case for class action lawsuit if the members have the balls to sue the Y.  

You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really can't be that dumb. Maybe you're dumb enough to compare an apartment building to a nationwide gym with 2600 branches that sells monthly membership for usage of its gym, and even dumber to think that people will fall for your asinine comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you be able to answer these questions directly?
> 
> 1.) Is the YMCA a privately run entity?
> 
> 2.) Would a private entity have the authority to set the rules, hours, and accessibility of a pool it owns? And if no, who should decide - outsiders? The Government?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is a private entity allowed to screw people for a service it's supposed to provide.  No it can't. And that's why the manager of that branch should get his ass fired.  And there's a definite case for class action lawsuit if the members have the balls to sue the Y.
> 
> You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.
Click to expand...


Well shoot Roudy - why don't you just show us where in the membership package or contract it says that members have a right to access all of the Y's facilities 24/7 

You got a problem with fat women too now Roudy?


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you be able to answer these questions directly?
> 
> 1.) Is the YMCA a privately run entity?
> 
> 2.) Would a private entity have the authority to set the rules, hours, and accessibility of a pool it owns? And if no, who should decide - outsiders? The Government?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Is a private entity allowed to screw people for a service it's supposed to provide.  No it can't. And that's why the manager of that branch should get his ass fired.  And there's a definite case for class action lawsuit if the members have the balls to sue the Y.
> 
> You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well shoot Roudy - why don't you just show us where in the membership package or contract it says that members have a right to access all of the Y's facilities 24/7
> 
> You got a problem with fat women too now Roudy?
Click to expand...


Its not 24/7 but during the hours of operation you have access unless their cleaning it or something, now men are kicked out of the pool area completely.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> *You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men*, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.



San Diego:  YMCA Offers Women-Only Swim Hours For Muslim Women | Speak City Heights

Seattle: Real Change News | Testing the waters

Sault Ste. Marie: Women's-only swim resumes in the Sault - Sudbury - CBC News  (though they were threatened for offering it)


----------



## Coyote

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is a private entity allowed to screw people for a service it's supposed to provide.  No it can't. And that's why the manager of that branch should get his ass fired.  And there's a definite case for class action lawsuit if the members have the balls to sue the Y.
> 
> You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well shoot Roudy - why don't you just show us where in the membership package or contract it says that members have a right to access all of the Y's facilities 24/7
> 
> You got a problem with fat women too now Roudy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its not 24/7 but during the hours of operation you have access unless their cleaning it or something, now men are kicked out of the pool area completely.
Click to expand...


Ok, so show me the contract that states that every member has access to all facilities during all hours of operation.


----------



## High_Gravity

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well shoot Roudy - why don't you just show us where in the membership package or contract it says that members have a right to access all of the Y's facilities 24/7
> 
> You got a problem with fat women too now Roudy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not 24/7 but during the hours of operation you have access unless their cleaning it or something, now men are kicked out of the pool area completely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, so show me the contract that states that every member has access to all facilities during all hours of operation.
Click to expand...




Whenever the pool was open, men had access. I was a member for a year, I was never denied access, although this is apparently changing.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you be able to answer these questions directly?
> 
> 1.) Is the YMCA a privately run entity?
> 
> 2.) Would a private entity have the authority to set the rules, hours, and accessibility of a pool it owns? And if no, who should decide - outsiders? The Government?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Is a private entity allowed to screw people for a service it's supposed to provide.  No it can't. And that's why the manager of that branch should get his ass fired.  And there's a definite case for class action lawsuit if the members have the balls to sue the Y.
> 
> You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well shoot Roudy - why don't you just show us where in the membership package or contract it says that members have a right to access all of the Y's facilities 24/7
> 
> You got a problem with fat women too now Roudy?
Click to expand...

Hello, knock knock, anybody home?  We've been around this turn before. All the Y's have individual websites that advertise their facilities during business hours, which includes their pool. The only times the pools are closed are during cleaning, and emergencies having to do with safety issues, such as lightening. So, unless specified, there is always access, or at least limited access to all members, and no gender discrimination occurs, ever.  The only limited access are during classes or private classes, but never does it say that "pool will be entirely closed to men as the management sees fit". 

Which of course is gender discrimination, and a perfect case for a class action federal lawsuit. 

 It's truly amazing how the foot soldiers and apologists for Islamism and Shariah like yourself are always pushing for persecution and discrimination of others, under the guise of "tolerance".


----------



## Indofred

KevinWestern said:


> Would you be able to answer these questions directly?
> 
> 1.) Is the YMCA a privately run entity?
> 
> 2.) Would a private entity have the authority to set the rules, hours, and accessibility of a pool it owns? And if no, who should decide - outsiders? The Government?
> 
> 
> .



Basically, a private entity has decided there is a need for a given program of events.
This facility is available to all women, regardless of religion and is used by woman of various faiths.
All women events are common all over the world but idiots are moaning about this one because some Muslim women are using it.

Frankly, the moaners are fucking stupid; more so when you consider women of their favoured religious (or non religious) groups do exactly the same thing.

It's a non story, created by idiots to be lapped up by idiots.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not 24/7 but during the hours of operation you have access unless their cleaning it or something, now men are kicked out of the pool area completely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so show me the contract that states that every member has access to all facilities during all hours of operation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever the pool was open, men had access. I was a member for a year, I was never denied access, although this is apparently changing.
Click to expand...

Islam.


----------



## Roudy

Indofred said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you be able to answer these questions directly?
> 
> 1.) Is the YMCA a privately run entity?
> 
> 2.) Would a private entity have the authority to set the rules, hours, and accessibility of a pool it owns? And if no, who should decide - outsiders? The Government?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, a private entity has decided there is a need for a given program of events.
> This facility is available to all women, regardless of religion and is used by woman of various faiths.
> All women events are common all over the world but idiots are moaning about this one because some Muslim women are using it.
> 
> Frankly, the moaners are fucking stupid; more so when you consider women of their favoured religious (or non religious) groups do exactly the same thing.
> 
> It's a non story, created by idiots to be lapped up by idiots.
Click to expand...

So basically you can't show me either where a Y has ever closed its pool off to men? What happened to your google search Indonesian Fred Flintstone... 2600 branches and you got nothing?  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well shoot Roudy - why don't you just show us where in the membership package or contract it says that members have a right to access all of the Y's facilities 24/7
> 
> You got a problem with fat women too now Roudy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its not 24/7 but during the hours of operation you have access unless their cleaning it or something, now men are kicked out of the pool area completely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok, so show me the contract that states that every member has access to all facilities during all hours of operation.
Click to expand...

Show me a contract that says access is based on management's discretion. That's not how contracts work. If it's not there that means they can't deny access.  Legal mind you're not.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You really can't be that dumb. Maybe you're dumb enough to compare an apartment building to a nationwide gym with 2600 branches that sells monthly membership for usage of its gym, and even dumber to think that people will fall for your asinine comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you be able to answer these questions directly?
> 
> 1.) Is the YMCA a privately run entity?
> 
> 2.) Would a private entity have the authority to set the rules, hours, and accessibility of a pool it owns? And if no, who should decide - outsiders? The Government?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is a private entity allowed to screw people for a service it's supposed to provide.  No it can't. And that's why the manager of that branch should get his ass fired.  And there's a definite case for class action lawsuit if the members have the balls to sue the Y.
> 
> You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.
Click to expand...



They are only "screwing people over" if the contract a member signs - when they pay the Y - says explicitly that the member will be able to access the pool at all times during business hours, no exceptions. If the contract uses that sort of phrasing, then yes this women's only swim would be in violation and if members wanted to they could sue I suppose.

HOWEVER, the contract can very well state that the pool hours/access for members are X but are subject to change and be modified by the owner of the pool. I'm sure it says something along those lines because the YMCA has no incentive to push themselves into a legal corner by always having to provide pool access no matter what. 

THIS IS PRECISELY why I asked you to show us the relevant line of the St. Paul's contract so that we can determine whether or not the facility violated the terms by setting aside 1 hour to women swimming a week.

YOU ARE CLAIMING that the Y is in violation of their terms, therefore YOU NEED TO PROVIDE legal evidence backing this claim. Otherwise you're just making shit up. 

Do you understand my position?


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is a private entity allowed to screw people for a service it's supposed to provide.  No it can't. And that's why the manager of that branch should get his ass fired.  And there's a definite case for class action lawsuit if the members have the balls to sue the Y.
> 
> You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well shoot Roudy - why don't you just show us where in the membership package or contract it says that members have a right to access all of the Y's facilities 24/7
> 
> You got a problem with fat women too now Roudy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Its not 24/7 but during the hours of operation you have access unless their cleaning it or something, now men are kicked out of the pool area completely.
Click to expand...


With all due respect your general word of what is and what isn't (given that you're not a member at this facility, you've never viewed the contract, you're not an owner of that particular YMCA, etc) means absolutely nothing from a legal perspective.

Show us the line in the contract that a women's 1 hour swim violates and we can go from there. Until this happens you are simply making a claim that is based on no factual evidence and therefore has no meaning to this discussion.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not 24/7 but during the hours of operation you have access unless their cleaning it or something, now men are kicked out of the pool area completely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so show me the contract that states that every member has access to all facilities during all hours of operation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me a contract that says access is based on management's discretion. That's not how contracts work. If it's not there that means they can't deny access.  Legal mind you're not.
Click to expand...


Neither are you.

The membership app you sign for the Y doesn't state what you will receive, so presumably it's the benefits listed under membership - for example, this: Full Service Member Benefits - Membership - YMCA Greater Providence


Under pools it states: _Pools  See schedules for adult and family swim times _

Presumably this is a typical YMCA.


----------



## C_Clayton_Jones

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its not 24/7 but during the hours of operation you have access unless their cleaning it or something, now men are kicked out of the pool area completely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so show me the contract that states that every member has access to all facilities during all hours of operation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Show me a contract that says access is based on management's discretion. That's not how contracts work. If it's not there that means they can't deny access.  Legal mind you're not.
Click to expand...


Nonsense. 

Contracts can be drawn up with various provisions, stipulations, and requirements that the contracting parties deem appropriate, provided they comport with state laws. 

If the Y wishes include a provision that the pool wont be available for a given period of time on a given day, the customer can either agree to that provision or elect to not sign the contract and seek out another facility.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men*, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Diego:  YMCA Offers Women-Only Swim Hours For Muslim Women | Speak City Heights
> 
> Seattle: Real Change News | Testing the waters
> 
> Sault Ste. Marie: Women's-only swim resumes in the Sault - Sudbury - CBC News  (though they were threatened for offering it)
Click to expand...

Geez, you really put your foot in your mouth with that one, didn't you.   I was talking about OTHER INSTANCES. And here you were bullshitting everybody that it's not about Muslims and Shariah, but rather about not having men <ha ha ha>.  I REST MY CASE YOUR HONOR.  YOU JUST HUNG YOURSELF:

YMCA Offers Women-Only Swim Hours For* Muslim Women* | Speak City Heights

Seattle: Real Change News | Testing the waters
...While the majority of attendees at the swim are *Muslim*...Behind the curtained windows, the women, now wearing baggy tops and long shorts, bob happily in the shallow end of the pool...&#8220;*Most prefer to [wear] boxers.* Or just tights, *a t-shirt and tank top is more comfortable attire* for us,&#8221; says *Shukri Abdi*.  <Geez what was that you said before: "who said any about Muslims or the type of clothes  they wear during swimming?!"  Ha ha ha, what a fucken phony liar you are.>

Sault Ste. Marie: Women's-only swim resumes in the Sault - Sudbury - CBC News 
Sault Ste. Marie *YMCA cancelled swim last week after receiving threats* <Gee, why would they be getting threats if what they were doing was okay with the members?>

Thanks again for making my point.  

You're DISMISSED.  Shooooooo!


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you be able to answer these questions directly?
> 
> 1.) Is the YMCA a privately run entity?
> 
> 2.) Would a private entity have the authority to set the rules, hours, and accessibility of a pool it owns? And if no, who should decide - outsiders? The Government?
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> Is a private entity allowed to screw people for a service it's supposed to provide.  No it can't. And that's why the manager of that branch should get his ass fired.  And there's a definite case for class action lawsuit if the members have the balls to sue the Y.
> 
> You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> They are only "screwing people over" if the contract a member signs - when they pay the Y - says explicitly that the member will be able to access the pool at all times during business hours, no exceptions. If the contract uses that sort of phrasing, then yes this women's only swim would be in violation and if members wanted to they could sue I suppose.
> 
> HOWEVER, the contract can very well state that the pool hours/access for members are X but are subject to change and be modified by the owner of the pool. I'm sure it says something along those lines because the YMCA has no incentive to push themselves into a legal corner by always having to provide pool access no matter what.
> 
> THIS IS PRECISELY why I asked you to show us the relevant line of the St. Paul's contract so that we can determine whether or not the facility violated the terms by setting aside 1 hour to women swimming a week.
> 
> YOU ARE CLAIMING that the Y is in violation of their terms, therefore YOU NEED TO PROVIDE legal evidence backing this claim. Otherwise you're just making shit up.
> 
> Do you understand my position?
Click to expand...

Hey dipshit, if it's not in the contract they can't arbitrarily ban men from using the pool just because a bunch of religious Muslims want to flap their fat asses in the pool.  And as your partner Islam apologist Coyote just posted, there are many instances of other members threatening and getting upset over this.  So clearly, the members are also on the same page as I am.  

And the only instances where this is happening is because of Muslim sensitivities, you can't show me any other instance where this persecution that you are justifying occurs at the Y, can you?


----------



## Roudy

C_Clayton_Jones said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so show me the contract that states that every member has access to all facilities during all hours of operation.
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a contract that says access is based on management's discretion. That's not how contracts work. If it's not there that means they can't deny access.  Legal mind you're not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Contracts can be drawn up with various provisions, stipulations, and requirements that the contracting parties deem appropriate, provided they comport with state laws.
> 
> If the Y wishes include a provision that the pool wont be available for a given period of time on a given day, the customer can either agree to that provision or elect to not sign the contract and seek out another facility.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha. The contract doesn't stipulate they can persecute men out of their usage at the managements discretion does it.  Besides, this is a one page membership contract, not a lease agreement or a real estate deal.  Again, if it's not in the contract, they can't ban usage.  It's that simple, period.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so show me the contract that states that every member has access to all facilities during all hours of operation.
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a contract that says access is based on management's discretion. That's not how contracts work. If it's not there that means they can't deny access.  Legal mind you're not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Neither are you.
> 
> The membership app you sign for the Y doesn't state what you will receive, so presumably it's the benefits listed under membership - for example, this: Full Service Member Benefits - Membership - YMCA Greater Providence
> 
> 
> Under pools it states: _Pools  See schedules for adult and family swim times _
> 
> Presumably this is a typical YMCA.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and nowhere on the schedule does it say men are banned, or the management reserves the right to exclude certain members from pool usage.

I rest my case once more, Coyote of the Foot In Mouth Disease.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a contract that says access is based on management's discretion. That's not how contracts work. If it's not there that means they can't deny access.  Legal mind you're not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Contracts can be drawn up with various provisions, stipulations, and requirements that the contracting parties deem appropriate, provided they comport with state laws.
> 
> If the Y wishes include a provision that the pool wont be available for a given period of time on a given day, the customer can either agree to that provision or elect to not sign the contract and seek out another facility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha ha ha. The contract doesn't stipulate they can persecute men out of their usage at the managements discretion does it.  Besides, this is a one page membership contract, not a lease agreement or a real estate deal.  Again, if it's not in the contract, they can't ban usage.  It's that simple, period.
Click to expand...


What law is the YMCA breaking by doing this?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men*, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Diego:  YMCA Offers Women-Only Swim Hours For Muslim Women | Speak City Heights
> 
> Seattle: Real Change News | Testing the waters
> 
> Sault Ste. Marie: Women's-only swim resumes in the Sault - Sudbury - CBC News  (though they were threatened for offering it)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Geez, you really put your foot in your mouth with that one, didn't you.   I was talking about OTHER INSTANCES. And here you were bullshitting everybody that it's not about Muslims and Shariah, but rather about not having men <ha ha ha>.  I REST MY CASE YOUR OWN.  YOU JUST HUNG YOURSELF:
Click to expand...


You kind of missed a few pertinant details in your rush here.  It's not about "Shariah" - or to be more accurate, imposing Shariah on anyone nor is it for Muslims only.



> YMCA Offers Women-Only Swim Hours For* Muslim Women* | Speak City Heights



If you read the article, you would also have read that they specifically asked for *"women-only"* swim - not "Muslim only", not "Shariah".  You also missed something else: they are doing it as an after hours event which should put your mind at ease in regards to having your requisite access to a facility you neither support nor are a member of.



> Seattle: Real Change News | Testing the waters
> ...While the majority of attendees at the swim are *Muslim*...Behind the curtained windows, the women, now wearing baggy tops and long shorts, bob happily in the shallow end of the pool...*Most prefer to [wear] boxers.* Or just tights, *a t-shirt and tank top is more comfortable attire* for us, says *Shukri Abdi*.  <Geez what was that you said before: "who said any about Muslims or the type of clothes?!"  Ha ha ha, what a fucken phony liar you are.>



Roudy - aren't you missing something here?  Are they being forced to wear Shariah-compliant clothing?  Or, can they wear what they wish within the pool's rules regarding attire?  *Is anyone being forced to wear something unwillingly?*  Indeed, it states that the majority (though not all) of this particular swim session are Muslim - so what?  They are the group, in this particular area, that most wants a women-only swim period.

So, to go back to your statement Roudy:  where is anyone being forced to wear anything unwillingly and, even from what *you* quoted - they are certainly not wearing street clothes either.



> Sault Ste. Marie: Women's-only swim resumes in the Sault - Sudbury - CBC News
> Sault Ste. Marie *YMCA cancelled swim last week after receiving threats* <Gee, why would they be getting threats if what they were doing was okay with the members?>



Who said the threats came from the members Roudy?  Are you saying it's ok to issue threats against innocent people?  Is that kind of like saying it's ok to issue threats when blacks were being integrated into white schools because it's "not ok" with the members?  Seriously Roudy?



> Thanks again for making my point.



Well Roudy, let's review the points made, and you tell me if indeed these are your points:

Various Y's offer "women-only" swim periods that are open to all women.
There is no required dress code beyond what is called for in the pool rules.
It's ok to threaten Muslim women and little girls for wanting a women-only swim period.



> You're DISMISSED.  Shooooooo!



In case you haven't figured it out yet Roudy, the class clown is not the boss of me 

Maybe you can clarify another point that seems to wind it's way through out the thread.

Do you have issues with women having a free choice?  You seem to want to force them to wear what *you* want them to wear.  You like to make fun of them if they want to be able to excercise without being watched (or cat called) by men.  In fact, if they have reservations, you disparingly refer to them as "fatties".


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a contract that says access is based on management's discretion. That's not how contracts work. If it's not there that means they can't deny access.  Legal mind you're not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither are you.
> 
> The membership app you sign for the Y doesn't state what you will receive, so presumably it's the benefits listed under membership - for example, this: Full Service Member Benefits - Membership - YMCA Greater Providence
> 
> 
> Under pools it states: _Pools  See schedules for adult and family swim times _
> 
> Presumably this is a typical YMCA.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly, and nowhere on the schedule does it say men are banned, or the management reserves the right to exclude certain members from pool usage.
> 
> I rest my case once more, Coyote of the Foot In Mouth Disease.
Click to expand...


Ahh, another dodge.  You would do well to rest your case as you really haven't a case.

The point made (and I thought it was pretty clear) - is that the Y membership benefits do NOT guarantee unrestricted access.  The example with the pool indicates that members should check the schedule for the open times.

Thought that was pretty obvious dude


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Show me a contract that says access is based on management's discretion. That's not how contracts work. If it's not there that means they can't deny access.  Legal mind you're not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Contracts can be drawn up with various provisions, stipulations, and requirements that the contracting parties deem appropriate, provided they comport with state laws.
> 
> If the Y wishes include a provision that the pool wont be available for a given period of time on a given day, the customer can either agree to that provision or elect to not sign the contract and seek out another facility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha ha ha. The contract doesn't stipulate they can persecute men out of their usage at the managements discretion does it.  Besides, this is a one page membership contract, not a lease agreement or a real estate deal. * Again, if it's not in the contract, they can't ban usage.*  It's that simple, period.
Click to expand...


Roudy, do you realize how really dumb that is?

"If it's not in the contract they can't ban usage" - well Roudy, nowhere in the contract does it say men can't use women's locker rooms or vice versa.  In fact, there's a shitload of stuff not in the contract.  Is the Y persecuting men then because they are banned from women's locker rooms?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is a private entity allowed to screw people for a service it's supposed to provide.  No it can't. And that's why the manager of that branch should get his ass fired.  And there's a definite case for class action lawsuit if the members have the balls to sue the Y.
> 
> You can't show me A SINGLE INSTANCE of the Y pool being closed off to men, because a bunch of fat Shariah Muslim women want to flap around in the water with their clothes on.  Go ahead, google it, there's 2600 branches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are only "screwing people over" if the contract a member signs - when they pay the Y - says explicitly that the member will be able to access the pool at all times during business hours, no exceptions. If the contract uses that sort of phrasing, then yes this women's only swim would be in violation and if members wanted to they could sue I suppose.
> 
> HOWEVER, the contract can very well state that the pool hours/access for members are X but are subject to change and be modified by the owner of the pool. I'm sure it says something along those lines because the YMCA has no incentive to push themselves into a legal corner by always having to provide pool access no matter what.
> 
> THIS IS PRECISELY why I asked you to show us the relevant line of the St. Paul's contract so that we can determine whether or not the facility violated the terms by setting aside 1 hour to women swimming a week.
> 
> YOU ARE CLAIMING that the Y is in violation of their terms, therefore YOU NEED TO PROVIDE legal evidence backing this claim. Otherwise you're just making shit up.
> 
> Do you understand my position?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey dipshit, if it's not in the contract they can't arbitrarily ban men from using the pool just because a bunch of religious Muslims want to flap their fat asses in the pool.  *And as your partner Islam apologist Coyote just posted, there are many instances of other members threatening and getting upset over this.*  So clearly, the members are also on the same page as I am.
> 
> And the only instances where this is happening is because of Muslim sensitivities, you can't show me any other instance where this persecution that you are justifying occurs at the Y, can you?
Click to expand...


No.  Roudy.

As I posted there are not _"many instances of other members threatening and getting upset over this"_ - geez, don't you even read before making stuff up?  

In what I posted, there was *one instance* - one facility - where threats were issued.  *It did not state the threats came from members*.  In fact, this is what it stated:
_The swim, designed for any woman who doesn't want her bare skin to be seen by men &#8212; either for personal or cultural reasons &#8212; was cancelled last week after anonymous threats were made saying it would be disrupted.​_


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Contracts can be drawn up with various provisions, stipulations, and requirements that the contracting parties deem appropriate, provided they comport with state laws.
> 
> If the Y wishes include a provision that the pool wont be available for a given period of time on a given day, the customer can either agree to that provision or elect to not sign the contract and seek out another facility.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha ha. The contract doesn't stipulate they can persecute men out of their usage at the managements discretion does it.  Besides, this is a one page membership contract, not a lease agreement or a real estate deal.  Again, if it's not in the contract, they can't ban usage.  It's that simple, period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What law is the YMCA breaking by doing this?
Click to expand...

Any Y that allows women only swimming due to Muslim sensitivities is breaking it's contractual obligations.  Now go sit in your corner when adults are talking, dunce.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C_Clayton_Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Contracts can be drawn up with various provisions, stipulations, and requirements that the contracting parties deem appropriate, provided they comport with state laws.
> 
> If the Y wishes include a provision that the pool won&#8217;t be available for a given period of time on a given day, the customer can either agree to that provision or elect to not sign the contract and seek out another facility.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha ha. The contract doesn't stipulate they can persecute men out of their usage at the managements discretion does it.  Besides, this is a one page membership contract, not a lease agreement or a real estate deal. * Again, if it's not in the contract, they can't ban usage.*  It's that simple, period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roudy, do you realize how really dumb that is?
> 
> "If it's not in the contract they can't ban usage" - well Roudy, nowhere in the contract does it say men can't use women's locker rooms or vice versa.  In fact, there's a shitload of stuff not in the contract.  Is the Y persecuting men then because they are banned from women's locker rooms?
Click to expand...

No actually it has a pretty clear description of who is and isn't allowed in locker rooms.  It even has a kids locker room to protect kids from pedos. 

If I am selling you services 7 days a week during business hours, I have to say on the contract if said services cannot be available.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha ha. The contract doesn't stipulate they can persecute men out of their usage at the managements discretion does it.  Besides, this is a one page membership contract, not a lease agreement or a real estate deal.  Again, if it's not in the contract, they can't ban usage.  It's that simple, period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What law is the YMCA breaking by doing this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any Y that allows women only swimming due to Muslim sensitivities is breaking it's contractual obligations.  Now go sit in your corner when adults are talking, dunce.
Click to expand...


What contract are they breaking specifically? What part of said contract are they breaking?


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are only "screwing people over" if the contract a member signs - when they pay the Y - says explicitly that the member will be able to access the pool at all times during business hours, no exceptions. If the contract uses that sort of phrasing, then yes this women's only swim would be in violation and if members wanted to they could sue I suppose.
> 
> HOWEVER, the contract can very well state that the pool hours/access for members are X but are subject to change and be modified by the owner of the pool. I'm sure it says something along those lines because the YMCA has no incentive to push themselves into a legal corner by always having to provide pool access no matter what.
> 
> THIS IS PRECISELY why I asked you to show us the relevant line of the St. Paul's contract so that we can determine whether or not the facility violated the terms by setting aside 1 hour to women swimming a week.
> 
> YOU ARE CLAIMING that the Y is in violation of their terms, therefore YOU NEED TO PROVIDE legal evidence backing this claim. Otherwise you're just making shit up.
> 
> Do you understand my position?
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dipshit, if it's not in the contract they can't arbitrarily ban men from using the pool just because a bunch of religious Muslims want to flap their fat asses in the pool.  *And as your partner Islam apologist Coyote just posted, there are many instances of other members threatening and getting upset over this.*  So clearly, the members are also on the same page as I am.
> 
> And the only instances where this is happening is because of Muslim sensitivities, you can't show me any other instance where this persecution that you are justifying occurs at the Y, can you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  Roudy.
> 
> As I posted there are not _"many instances of other members threatening and getting upset over this"_ - geez, don't you even read before making stuff up?
> 
> In what I posted, there was *one instance* - one facility - where threats were issued.  *It did not state the threats came from members*.  In fact, this is what it stated:
> _The swim, designed for any woman who doesn't want her bare skin to be seen by men &#8212; either for personal or cultural reasons &#8212; was cancelled last week after anonymous threats were made saying it would be disrupted.​_
Click to expand...

So all the instances of "women only" had to do with Muslim sensitivity issues.  You can't find any other other instances that men or women are being discrimination from using the pool.  Put up or shut up.


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What law is the YMCA breaking by doing this?
> 
> 
> 
> Any Y that allows women only swimming due to Muslim sensitivities is breaking it's contractual obligations.  Now go sit in your corner when adults are talking, dunce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What contract are they breaking specifically? What part of said contract are they breaking?
Click to expand...

Go back and read the previous posts.  You're a little late to the party Gomer.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither are you.
> 
> The membership app you sign for the Y doesn't state what you will receive, so presumably it's the benefits listed under membership - for example, this: Full Service Member Benefits - Membership - YMCA Greater Providence
> 
> 
> Under pools it states: _Pools  See schedules for adult and family swim times _
> 
> Presumably this is a typical YMCA.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, and nowhere on the schedule does it say men are banned, or the management reserves the right to exclude certain members from pool usage.
> 
> I rest my case once more, Coyote of the Foot In Mouth Disease.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ahh, another dodge.  You would do well to rest your case as you really haven't a case.
> 
> The point made (and I thought it was pretty clear) - is that the Y membership benefits do NOT guarantee unrestricted access.  The example with the pool indicates that members should check the schedule for the open times.
> 
> Thought that was pretty obvious dude
Click to expand...

Can you show me where it says there is restricted access to the pool area due to gender, at the YMCA aka Young MEN'S Christian Association?  Come on DUFUS, let's see it.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any Y that allows women only swimming due to Muslim sensitivities is breaking it's contractual obligations.  Now go sit in your corner when adults are talking, dunce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What contract are they breaking specifically? What part of said contract are they breaking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go back and read the previous posts.  You're a little late to the party Gomer.
Click to expand...


Which page is the contract on in this thread? And which part of the contract should I look at to see where the violation occurred? To have a point of reference.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> San Diego:  YMCA Offers Women-Only Swim Hours For Muslim Women | Speak City Heights
> 
> Seattle: Real Change News | Testing the waters
> 
> Sault Ste. Marie: Women's-only swim resumes in the Sault - Sudbury - CBC News  (though they were threatened for offering it)
> 
> 
> 
> Geez, you really put your foot in your mouth with that one, didn't you.   I was talking about OTHER INSTANCES. And here you were bullshitting everybody that it's not about Muslims and Shariah, but rather about not having men <ha ha ha>.  I REST MY CASE YOUR OWN.  YOU JUST HUNG YOURSELF:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You kind of missed a few pertinant details in your rush here.  It's not about "Shariah" - or to be more accurate, imposing Shariah on anyone nor is it for Muslims only.
> 
> 
> 
> If you read the article, you would also have read that they specifically asked for *"women-only"* swim - not "Muslim only", not "Shariah".  You also missed something else: they are doing it as an after hours event which should put your mind at ease in regards to having your requisite access to a facility you neither support nor are a member of.
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy - aren't you missing something here?  Are they being forced to wear Shariah-compliant clothing?  Or, can they wear what they wish within the pool's rules regarding attire?  *Is anyone being forced to wear something unwillingly?*  Indeed, it states that the majority (though not all) of this particular swim session are Muslim - so what?  They are the group, in this particular area, that most wants a women-only swim period.
> 
> So, to go back to your statement Roudy:  where is anyone being forced to wear anything unwillingly and, even from what *you* quoted - they are certainly not wearing street clothes either.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said the threats came from the members Roudy?  Are you saying it's ok to issue threats against innocent people?  Is that kind of like saying it's ok to issue threats when blacks were being integrated into white schools because it's "not ok" with the members?  Seriously Roudy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again for making my point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Roudy, let's review the points made, and you tell me if indeed these are your points:
> 
> Various Y's offer "women-only" swim periods that are open to all women.
> There is no required dress code beyond what is called for in the pool rules.
> It's ok to threaten Muslim women and little girls for wanting a women-only swim period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're DISMISSED.  Shooooooo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In case you haven't figured it out yet Roudy, the class clown is not the boss of me
> 
> Maybe you can clarify another point that seems to wind it's way through out the thread.
> 
> Do you have issues with women having a free choice?  You seem to want to force them to wear what *you* want them to wear.  You like to make fun of them if they want to be able to excercise without being watched (or cat called) by men.  In fact, if they have reservations, you disparingly refer to them as "fatties".
Click to expand...

*All of this blabber and you still can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism.  Come on smarty pants, 2600 branches, Google  Ha ha ha.  *


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What contract are they breaking specifically? What part of said contract are they breaking?
> 
> 
> 
> Go back and read the previous posts.  You're a little late to the party Gomer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which page is the contract on in this thread? And which part of the contract should I look at to see where the violation occurred? To have a point of reference.
Click to expand...

Keep pressing the back arrow button it looks something like this: <


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go back and read the previous posts.  You're a little late to the party Gomer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which page is the contract on in this thread? And which part of the contract should I look at to see where the violation occurred? To have a point of reference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Keep pressing the back arrow button it looks something like this: <
Click to expand...


I checked the pages, couldn't find a contract or a link to a contract posted.

You claim they are violating the contract, yet you have provided no evidence.


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Which page is the contract on in this thread? And which part of the contract should I look at to see where the violation occurred? To have a point of reference.
> 
> 
> 
> Keep pressing the back arrow button it looks something like this: <
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I checked the pages, couldn't find a contract or a link to a contract posted.
> 
> You claim they are violating the contract, yet you have provided no evidence.
Click to expand...

Well apparently you didn't read it properly then.  Because this specific point has been discussed for about 3 to four pages of this thread, at least.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep pressing the back arrow button it looks something like this: <
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I checked the pages, couldn't find a contract or a link to a contract posted.
> 
> You claim they are violating the contract, yet you have provided no evidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well apparently you didn't read it properly then.  Because this specific point has been discussed for about 3 to four pages of this thread, at least.
Click to expand...


People are talking about a so-called contract, but no one has posted or linked to any such thing. So it is just speculation at this point.

As of right now, no one has proven they violated the terms of their membership contract.


----------



## Roudy

Here is this specific Y's website. 

Fraud? False advertising? 

Membership Benefits | YMCA Twin Cities

Member Services
21 YMCA Locations
*Open 7 days a week*
No annual contracts
30-day money back guarantee
*Access* to Ys across the U.S.

Fitness
Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
State-of-the-art fitness centers
*Pools, gyms and running tracks. Check amenities*
Free fitness consultations

Suing this y should be a slam dunk case. 

http://www.ymcatwincities.org/swimming/exercise_and_specialty_classes/water_exercise/
*
Ages 15+ may attend unaccompanied. All fitness levels.*


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Fraud? False advertising?
> 
> Membership Benefits | YMCA Twin Cities
> 
> Member Services
> 21 YMCA Locations
> *Open 7 days a week*
> No annual contracts
> 30-day money back guarantee
> *Access* to Ys across the U.S.
> 
> Fitness
> Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
> State-of-the-art fitness centers
> *Pools, gyms and running tracks. Check amenities*
> Free fitness consultations


No 

How do these classes violate the terms of membership?


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fraud? False advertising?
> 
> Membership Benefits | YMCA Twin Cities
> 
> Member Services
> 21 YMCA Locations
> *Open 7 days a week*
> No annual contracts
> 30-day money back guarantee
> *Access* to Ys across the U.S.
> 
> Fitness
> Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
> State-of-the-art fitness centers
> *Pools, gyms and running tracks. Check amenities*
> Free fitness consultations
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> How do these classes violate the terms of membership?
Click to expand...

They don't. That's what they are offering to people on their website, nincompoop 

"Ages 15+ can attend *ALL FITNESS LEVELS.*"  in other words: No restrictions.

I'd say their goose is cooked.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fraud? False advertising?
> 
> Membership Benefits | YMCA Twin Cities
> 
> Member Services
> 21 YMCA Locations
> *Open 7 days a week*
> No annual contracts
> 30-day money back guarantee
> *Access* to Ys across the U.S.
> 
> Fitness
> Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
> State-of-the-art fitness centers
> *Pools, gyms and running tracks. Check amenities*
> Free fitness consultations
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> How do these classes violate the terms of membership?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't. That's what they are offering to people on their website, nincompoop
> 
> "Ages 15+ can attend *ALL FITNESS LEVELS.*"  in other words: No restrictions.
> 
> I'd say their goose is cooked.
Click to expand...


Can attend where, when? 

Where does it say that? That isn't at the link.


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> How do these classes violate the terms of membership?
> 
> 
> 
> They don't. That's what they are offering to people on their website, nincompoop
> 
> "Ages 15+ can attend *ALL FITNESS LEVELS.*"  in other words: No restrictions.
> 
> I'd say their goose is cooked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can attend where, when?
> 
> Where does it say that? That isn't at the link.
Click to expand...

Twin citiies area includes 21 YMCA's, which includes St. Paul the Y in question. 

By banning men from having ACCESS to all fitness levels, which includes the pool, 7 days a week during business hours, it is not what they clearly represented and advertised for on their website. 

Mr. Nazi lawyer. Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy

Top left hand corner:

Water Exercise | YMCA Twin Cities

FREE FOR MEMBERS
Drop-in Classes
No registration required
All fitness levels
Ages 10-14 may attend with parent/guardian.
Ages 15+ may attend unaccompanied. All fitness levels.


----------



## Roudy

You'd expect any gender or other restrictions to possibly be here.  But no. 

Pool Guidelines and Swim Tests | YMCA Twin Cities


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> They don't. That's what they are offering to people on their website, nincompoop
> 
> "Ages 15+ can attend *ALL FITNESS LEVELS.*"  in other words: No restrictions.
> 
> I'd say their goose is cooked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can attend where, when?
> 
> Where does it say that? That isn't at the link.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Twin citiies area includes 21 YMCA's, which includes St. Paul the Y in question.
> 
> By banning men from having ACCESS to all fitness levels, which includes the pool, 7 days a week during business hours, it is not what they clearly represented and advertised for on their website.
> 
> Mr. Nazi lawyer. Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


It doesn't all members can have access to the pool at all times.


----------



## Esmeralda

All YMCA pools, and all other private and public swimming pool, have specific hours for different kinds of classes. At those times, other swimmers are prohibited. It is a common as can be. You are just having hissy fit after hissy fit because this particular YMCA is devoting one hour, one hour, per week for a group of Muslim women to have a swimming class. It is ALL ABOUT YOUR BIGOTRY and nothing else. This YMCA and all other YMCAs have had special times put in their schedules for special classes from which men or women or others are prohibited from using the pool. 

Own up to what you are really all about and stop trying to convince people your position is about contracts or advertising or anything else but bigotry and hatred toward Muslims. You aren&#8217;t fooling' anyone. And you will never convince anyone to accept your argumentative position, because it is built on a foundation of fake righteousness and lies. 

I've got a whole lot of bad words I'd like to hurl at you, but you are not even worth that.

BTW  Iceman, this 





> It doesn't all members can have access to the pool at all times.


  Isn't true. Not true at all. The 'Y' and other public and private pools have a variety of classes from which people who have not enrolled in that class are prohibited. As well, they have classes specifically for certain reasons, and not everyone is eligible to enroll in them.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> You'd expect any gender or other restrictions to possibly be here.  But no.
> 
> Pool Guidelines and Swim Tests | YMCA Twin Cities



They have male and female locker rooms, unless you have children, where you use a family room if you have children of the opposite sex.


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can attend where, when?
> 
> Where does it say that? That isn't at the link.
> 
> 
> 
> Twin citiies area includes 21 YMCA's, which includes St. Paul the Y in question.
> 
> By banning men from having ACCESS to all fitness levels, which includes the pool, 7 days a week during business hours, it is not what they clearly represented and advertised for on their website.
> 
> Mr. Nazi lawyer. Ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It doesn't all members can have access to the pool at all times.
Click to expand...

Of course it does.  Cumulatively and individually the information clearly says they are open 7 days a week. Access to all fitness levels, regardless of your gender. 

Slam dunk.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Twin citiies area includes 21 YMCA's, which includes St. Paul the Y in question.
> 
> By banning men from having ACCESS to all fitness levels, which includes the pool, 7 days a week during business hours, it is not what they clearly represented and advertised for on their website.
> 
> Mr. Nazi lawyer. Ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't all members can have access to the pool at all times.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course it does.  Cumulatively and individually the information clearly says they are open 7 days a week. Access to all fitness levels, regardless of your gender.
> 
> Slam dunk.
Click to expand...

Where does it say all members can have access to all facilities at all times?

It is clear they are open seven days a week, and that men and women have access to facilities. But you have yet to show the YMCA policy that all members have access to all facilities at all times.


----------



## Roudy

Esmeralda said:


> All YMCA pools, and all other public swimming pool, have specific hours for different kinds of classes. At those times, other swimmers are prohibited. It is a common as can be. You are just having hissy fit after hissy fit because this particular YMCA is devoting one hour, one hour, per week for a group of Muslim women to have a swimming class. It is ALL ABOUT YOUR BIGOTRY and nothing else. This YMCA and all other YMCAs have had special times put in their schedules for special classes from which men or women or others are prohibited from using the pool.
> 
> Own up to what you are really all about and stop trying to convince people your position is about contracts or advertising or anything else but bigotry and hatred toward Muslims. You aren&#8217;t fooling' anyone. And you will never convince anyone to accept your argumentative position, because it is built on a foundation of fake righteousness and lies.
> 
> I've got a whole lot of bad words I'd like to hurl at you, but you are not even worth that.


Pay attention Esmeralda. It is not about the one hour, it is about taking something away from a group of members, the men, that they clearly paid for.  So they are defrauding their customers just to appease Muslims. 

You have no problem with stepping over people just to appease Shariah law requirements?  Fine. 

I'm not okay with it. 

How about you own up to what you are?


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't all members can have access to the pool at all times.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it does.  Cumulatively and individually the information clearly says they are open 7 days a week. Access to all fitness levels, regardless of your gender.
> 
> Slam dunk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Where does it say all members can have access to all facilities at all times?
> 
> It is clear they are open seven days a week, and that men and women have access to facilities. But you have yet to show the YMCA policy that all members have access to all facilities at all times.
Click to expand...

Here they clearly list a group that is not allowed to attend, anybody under 15 without a parent or guardian supervising them.  

"Ages 15+ can attend ALL FITNESS LEVELS"

In other words...If there were times when men couldn't enter, they'd mention it...especially considering majority of Y members are men.


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You'd expect any gender or other restrictions to possibly be here.  But no.
> 
> Pool Guidelines and Swim Tests | YMCA Twin Cities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have male and female locker rooms, unless you have children, where you use a family room if you have children of the opposite sex.
Click to expand...

Yes.  So no gender restrictions for pool usage or specific possible hours that pool could be restricted to a group or gender. 

I'd like to enter a digital copy of this webpage, date stamped, as court evidence your honor.


----------



## Esmeralda

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> All YMCA pools, and all other public swimming pool, have specific hours for different kinds of classes. At those times, other swimmers are prohibited. It is a common as can be. You are just having hissy fit after hissy fit because this particular YMCA is devoting one hour, one hour, per week for a group of Muslim women to have a swimming class. It is ALL ABOUT YOUR BIGOTRY and nothing else. This YMCA and all other YMCAs have had special times put in their schedules for special classes from which men or women or others are prohibited from using the pool.
> 
> Own up to what you are really all about and stop trying to convince people your position is about contracts or advertising or anything else but bigotry and hatred toward Muslims. You arent fooling' anyone. And you will never convince anyone to accept your argumentative position, because it is built on a foundation of fake righteousness and lies.
> 
> I've got a whole lot of bad words I'd like to hurl at you, but you are not even worth that.
> 
> 
> 
> Pay attention Esmeralda. It is not about the one hour, it is about taking something away from a group of members, the men, that they clearly paid for.  So they are defrauding their customers just to appease Muslims.
> 
> You have no problem with stepping over people just to appease Shariah law requirements?  Fine.
> 
> I'm not okay with it.
> How about you own up to what you are?
Click to expand...


Read the fucking post you idiot.  They men at any YMCA, like anyone else, is prohibited from using the pool when certain classes are going on.  YOU are just pissed off because this particular class is for Muslims. Any other class and you'd have no problem.


----------



## Roudy

Esmeralda said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> All YMCA pools, and all other public swimming pool, have specific hours for different kinds of classes. At those times, other swimmers are prohibited. It is a common as can be. You are just having hissy fit after hissy fit because this particular YMCA is devoting one hour, one hour, per week for a group of Muslim women to have a swimming class. It is ALL ABOUT YOUR BIGOTRY and nothing else. This YMCA and all other YMCAs have had special times put in their schedules for special classes from which men or women or others are prohibited from using the pool.
> 
> Own up to what you are really all about and stop trying to convince people your position is about contracts or advertising or anything else but bigotry and hatred toward Muslims. You arent fooling' anyone. And you will never convince anyone to accept your argumentative position, because it is built on a foundation of fake righteousness and lies.
> 
> I've got a whole lot of bad words I'd like to hurl at you, but you are not even worth that.
> 
> 
> 
> Pay attention Esmeralda. It is not about the one hour, it is about taking something away from a group of members, the men, that they clearly paid for.  So they are defrauding their customers just to appease Muslims.
> 
> You have no problem with stepping over people just to appease Shariah law requirements?  Fine.
> 
> I'm not okay with it.
> How about you own up to what you are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the fucking post you idiot.  They men at any YMCA, like anyone else, is prohibited from using the pool when certain classes are going on.  YOU are just pissed off because this particular class is for Muslims. Any other class and you'd have no problem.
Click to expand...

I just did. No classes offered to women only. And nowhere does it say no access to men or other regular members during classes. Classes means they take away some of the lanes. Not ban men from A- taking those classes, B- entirely from the pool area.


----------



## Esmeralda

Do you think the pool is open to everyone when there are water aerobics classes for the eldery or handicapped? Do you think the pool is open to everyone when there are mother and baby swim classes? So you think the pool is open to everyone when the swim team is practicing? ~Etc. and so on. The pool is not open ALL HOURS to everyone who is a 'Y' member.  There are specfic times during each week that the pool is reserved for special classes or events. This is true and has always been true. So your biggest premise, that men are being denied something they paid for, is absolutely false.  You are just being a bigot, pure and simple. Your righteous indignation is total BS.  Again, you fool no one. You are completely transparent.


----------



## Roudy

Esmeralda said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> All YMCA pools, and all other public swimming pool, have specific hours for different kinds of classes. At those times, other swimmers are prohibited. It is a common as can be. You are just having hissy fit after hissy fit because this particular YMCA is devoting one hour, one hour, per week for a group of Muslim women to have a swimming class. It is ALL ABOUT YOUR BIGOTRY and nothing else. This YMCA and all other YMCAs have had special times put in their schedules for special classes from which men or women or others are prohibited from using the pool.
> 
> Own up to what you are really all about and stop trying to convince people your position is about contracts or advertising or anything else but bigotry and hatred toward Muslims. You arent fooling' anyone. And you will never convince anyone to accept your argumentative position, because it is built on a foundation of fake righteousness and lies.
> 
> I've got a whole lot of bad words I'd like to hurl at you, but you are not even worth that.
> 
> 
> 
> Pay attention Esmeralda. It is not about the one hour, it is about taking something away from a group of members, the men, that they clearly paid for.  So they are defrauding their customers just to appease Muslims.
> 
> You have no problem with stepping over people just to appease Shariah law requirements?  Fine.
> 
> I'm not okay with it.
> How about you own up to what you are?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Read the fucking post you idiot.  They men at any YMCA, like anyone else, is prohibited from using the pool when certain classes are going on.  YOU are just pissed off because this particular class is for Muslims. Any other class and you'd have no problem.
Click to expand...

Any other class that takes away total access to the pool to the regular members, or does not allow men to attend, and they'd also be in violation, which means I'd have a problem with it. I'd be just as upset if this was done for orthodox Jewish women.  The Y is simply not the place for this kind of bullshit. Take it somewhere else. 

Besides, all that these kinds of requests do is generate hatred and animosity towards a certain group. 

I'm sure you're all for that, right?


----------



## Roudy

Esmeralda said:


> Do you think the pool is open to everyone when there are water aerobics classes for the eldery or handicapped? Do you think the pool is open to everyone when there are mother and baby swim classes? So you think the pool is open to everyone when the swim team is practicing? ~Etc. and so on. The pool is not open ALL HOURS to everyone who is a 'Y' member.  There are specfic times during each week that the pool is reserved for special classes or events. This is true and has always been true. So your biggest premise, that men are being denied something they paid for, is absolutely false.  You are just being a bigot, pure and simple. Your righteous indignation is total BS.  Again, you fool no one. You are completely transparent.


Yes, the pool is open during all kinds of classes. They'd have at least one or two lanes open to regular members who wanted to do lap swimming. That was my experience. Besides at no time were men banned from anything!  Do swim meets ban men?  Idiot. 

Keep trying to bend over backwards, and in this case commit gender discrimination, in order to appease a barbaric 7th century mindset. That's what you guys are good at.


----------



## Esmeralda

You ignore the obvious. These classes go on all the time and always have. There are simply certain hours when the full membership of the Y cannot use the pool because of various classes. It has always been that way.  Tell me you are so ignorant you were not ever before aware of this?  And it's one hour a week. Oh my gosh. The horror! How awful, a whole hour once time a week.  Again, you are pissed off because this is about Muslims. That's it. I know it. We all know it, even you know it, but you won't admit it.  LOL  I'm done.  Some people just are not worth engaging in discussion with.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You'd expect any gender or other restrictions to possibly be here.  But no.
> 
> Pool Guidelines and Swim Tests | YMCA Twin Cities
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have male and female locker rooms, unless you have children, where you use a family room if you have children of the opposite sex.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.  So no gender restrictions for pool usage or specific possible hours that pool could be restricted to a group or gender.
> 
> I'd like to enter a digital copy of this webpage, date stamped, as court evidence your honor.
Click to expand...


Exactly, no mention of gender restrictions, thus since no policy explicitly prohibits limiting access to certain members to certain facilities at certain times, means this class violates no policy.


----------



## Roudy

Esmeralda said:


> You ignore the obvious. These classes go on all the time and always have. There are simply certain hours when the full membership of the Y cannot use the pool because of various classes. It has always been that way.  Tell me you are so ignorant you were not ever before aware of this?  And it's one hour a week. Oh my gosh. The horror! How awful, a whole hour once time a week.  Again, you are pissed off because this is about Muslims. That's it. I know it. We all know it, even you know it, but you won't admit it.  LOL  I'm done.  Some people just are not worth engaging in discussion with.


Yes, these classes go on all the time. But not at the Y and establishments like it.  People are buying access to the facilities these gyms offer, anytime they show up.  Maybe this kind of thing can be done at a park pool, depending.  I know there are certain private pools and baths religious Jewish women attend when they are done with their monthly menstruation cycle.


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They have male and female locker rooms, unless you have children, where you use a family room if you have children of the opposite sex.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  So no gender restrictions for pool usage or specific possible hours that pool could be restricted to a group or gender.
> 
> I'd like to enter a digital copy of this webpage, date stamped, as court evidence your honor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly, no mention of gender restrictions, thus since no policy explicitly prohibits limiting access to certain members to certain facilities at certain times, means this class violates no policy.
Click to expand...

Ha ha. That's not the way the law works. I can't sell you access, and after you sign a membership say, "OOOOPS did I say men can't swim 4 days a week?"  It is my job as the seller of product or service to mention any restrictions or limitations on what I'm selling.  

 Fucken idiot.


----------



## Roudy

Esmeralda said:


> You ignore the obvious. These classes go on all the time and always have. There are simply certain hours when the full membership of the Y cannot use the pool because of various classes. It has always been that way.  Tell me you are so ignorant you were not ever before aware of this?  And it's one hour a week. Oh my gosh. The horror! How awful, a whole hour once time a week.  Again, you are pissed off because this is about Muslims. That's it. I know it. We all know it, even you know it, but you won't admit it.  LOL  I'm done.  Some people just are not worth engaging in discussion with.


I'll admit that I object to Muslims infringing upon other peoples freedoms and rights, such that they can impose their own culture and way of life, if you admit that you are willing to do and say anything to make it possible for them to do so. 

If you don't care about the freedoms and rights that this free country offers, doesn't mean others should as well.


----------



## Iceman

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.  So no gender restrictions for pool usage or specific possible hours that pool could be restricted to a group or gender.
> 
> I'd like to enter a digital copy of this webpage, date stamped, as court evidence your honor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, no mention of gender restrictions, thus since no policy explicitly prohibits limiting access to certain members to certain facilities at certain times, means this class violates no policy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ha ha. *That's not the way the law works.* I can't sell you access, and after you sign a membership say, "OOOOPS did I say men can't swim 4 days a week?"*  It is my job as the seller of product or service to mention any restrictions or limitations on what I'm selling.*
> 
> Fucken idiot.
Click to expand...


No it isn't.

Schedules can be found on line before one signs up, the YMCA isn't hiding anything.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Any other class that takes away total access to the pool to the regular members, or does not allow men to attend, and they'd also be in violation, which means I'd have a problem with it. I'd be just as upset if this was done for orthodox Jewish women.  The Y is simply not the place for this kind of bullshit. Take it somewhere else.
> 
> Besides, all that these kinds of requests do is generate hatred and animosity towards a certain group.
> 
> I'm sure you're all for that, right?




So just to clarify, the thing you're most upset about is not the fact the swimmers are muslims, but rather because you feel the YMCA is screwing its customers over by setting aside 60 minutes once a week for a women's only swimclass? 

And this is all despite the fact the pool schedule is clearly posted on the website, available for all individuals - member or potential member - to view freely? And despite the fact that nowhere on the website (I could find) guaranteed 24/7 unfettered access to the pool? 



.






.


----------



## paulitician

But But...I thought the Communists/Progressives were demanding Co-Ed Bathrooms in our Schools. Why the Flip-Flop? Am i detecting a bit of dishonesty & hypocrisy here?


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any other class that takes away total access to the pool to the regular members, or does not allow men to attend, and they'd also be in violation, which means I'd have a problem with it. I'd be just as upset if this was done for orthodox Jewish women.  The Y is simply not the place for this kind of bullshit. Take it somewhere else.
> 
> Besides, all that these kinds of requests do is generate hatred and animosity towards a certain group.
> 
> I'm sure you're all for that, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So just to clarify, the thing you're most upset about is not the fact the swimmers are muslims, but rather because you feel the YMCA is screwing its customers over by setting aside 60 minutes once a week for a women's only swimclass?
> 
> And this is all despite the fact the pool schedule is clearly posted on the website, available for all individuals - member or potential member - to view freely? And despite the fact that nowhere on the website (I could find) guaranteed 24/7 unfettered access to the pool?
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

All these posts and you haven't figured it out? It's not about what I am against or for, it's about that specific Y's misrepresentations and discrimination, and defrauding a big group of its members out of its facilities usage that they are clearly entitled to. All of it, based on NON CHRISTIAN religious considerations.  Does it matter if it's an hour?  Not at all.  It just smacks of inconsideration and imposition.  

Again I ask, can you show me a SINGLE INSTANCE that the Y forbids men other than appeasing inflexible religious Muslims?  

Look, you want Muslim women to swim while still observing Islamic Shariah requirements?  Do it somewhere else where you're not infringing on other peoples rights, and ESPECIALLY at a Christian based organization, which has for the most part taken religion out of its code. 

You do also realize that there are many secular Muslims that use the Y, that would also be ashamed and even angry at this type of class?   Just as there would be Jews upset if a such a class were held for Orthodox Jewish women.


----------



## Roudy

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, no mention of gender restrictions, thus since no policy explicitly prohibits limiting access to certain members to certain facilities at certain times, means this class violates no policy.
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha. *That's not the way the law works.* I can't sell you access, and after you sign a membership say, "OOOOPS did I say men can't swim 4 days a week?"*  It is my job as the seller of product or service to mention any restrictions or limitations on what I'm selling.*
> 
> Fucken idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> 
> Schedules can be found on line before one signs up, the YMCA isn't hiding anything.
Click to expand...

No schedules banning men anywhere ever. Nothing in the code of conduct and pool rules either. It says the fitness facilities and classes are open to anyone during business hours.  No restrictions on who can sign up. Other than the restriction on minors, and those who are criminals or disobeying the law,more misbehaving, which they have stated. So if they wanted to reserve the right to restrict ANY group, they could have clearly stated so. 

At one time, there used to be a lot of YWCA's, Young WOMENS Christian Association, remember?  That would be a place for a class like this. And even then it cannot have any Muslim implications.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ha ha. *That's not the way the law works.* I can't sell you access, and after you sign a membership say, "OOOOPS did I say men can't swim 4 days a week?"*  It is my job as the seller of product or service to mention any restrictions or limitations on what I'm selling.*
> 
> Fucken idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> 
> Schedules can be found on line before one signs up, the YMCA isn't hiding anything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No schedules banning men anywhere ever. Nothing in the code of conduct and pool rules either. It says the fitness facilities and classes are open to anyone during business hours.  No restrictions on who can sign up. Other than the restriction on minors, and those who are criminals or disobeying the law,more misbehaving, which they have stated. So if they wanted to reserve the right to restrict ANY group, they could have clearly stated so.
> 
> At one time, there used to be a lot of YWCA's, Young WOMENS Christian Association, remember?  That would be a place for a class like this. And even then it cannot have any Muslim implications.
Click to expand...


Why can't these women just go in the pool with everyone else?


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> All these posts and you haven't figured it out? It's not about what I am against or for, it's about that specific Y's misrepresentations and discrimination, and defrauding a big group of its members out of its facilities usage that they are clearly entitled to. All of it, based on NON CHRISTIAN religious considerations.  Does it matter if it's an hour?  Not at all.  It just smacks of inconsideration and imposition.
> 
> Again I ask, can you show me a SINGLE INSTANCE that the Y forbids men other than appeasing inflexible religious Muslims?
> 
> Look, you want Muslim women to swim while still observing Islamic Shariah requirements?  Do it somewhere else where you're not infringing on other peoples rights, and ESPECIALLY at a Christian based organization, which has for the most part taken religion out of its code.
> 
> You do also realize that there are many secular Muslims that use the Y, that would also be ashamed and even angry at this type of class?   Just as there would be Jews upset if a such a class were held for Orthodox Jewish women.




It doesn't matter whether or not this class is the one and only case of segregating the pool; what matters is whether or not the Y misrepresented its services. In order to misrepresent its services, the YMCA would have to explicitly say that all members can access the pool 100% of the time without exception, and then limit access in some way. 

THE WEBSITE DOES NOT SAY THIS. NO WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT ALL MEMBERS WILL HAVE FULL ACCESS TO THE POOL 100% OF THE TIME. 

If you believe the website does explicitly say this, please show us.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> All these posts and you haven't figured it out? It's not about what I am against or for, it's about that specific Y's misrepresentations and discrimination, and defrauding a big group of its members out of its facilities usage that they are clearly entitled to. All of it, based on NON CHRISTIAN religious considerations.  Does it matter if it's an hour?  Not at all.  It just smacks of inconsideration and imposition.
> 
> Again I ask, can you show me a SINGLE INSTANCE that the Y forbids men other than appeasing inflexible religious Muslims?
> 
> Look, you want Muslim women to swim while still observing Islamic Shariah requirements?  Do it somewhere else where you're not infringing on other peoples rights, and ESPECIALLY at a Christian based organization, which has for the most part taken religion out of its code.
> 
> You do also realize that there are many secular Muslims that use the Y, that would also be ashamed and even angry at this type of class?   Just as there would be Jews upset if a such a class were held for Orthodox Jewish women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter whether or not this class is the one and only case of segregating the pool; what matters is whether or not the Y misrepresented its services. In order to misrepresent its services, the YMCA would have to explicitly say that all members can access the pool 100% of the time without exception, and then limit access in some way.
> 
> THE WEBSITE DOES NOT SAY THIS. NO WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT ALL MEMBERS WILL HAVE FULL ACCESS TO THE POOL 100% OF THE TIME.
> 
> If you believe the website does explicitly say this, please show us.
Click to expand...

It's actually the opposite. When I bought membership at the Equinox, since they didn't say "there will be certain hours where certain areas are closed off to men" they cannot close anything off to the men, and they don't. Men can join women's aerobic / yoga classes, or use the gym, or use the pool at anytime during business hours. If they closed off the pool and made it a for women only, even an hour, there would be a riot at the gym. Trust me. 

I don't get your stance here. Are you for women's only hours at the Y pool, and discriminating and defrauding male members who want to swim, or are you for it because they are Muslims?  Sounds more like the second, you're bending over backwards, and stepping on your principles to appease an inflexible group of religious people who have no right to impose themselves in such a way. 

Either way it's wrong to me.


----------



## KevinWestern

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> 
> Schedules can be found on line before one signs up, the YMCA isn't hiding anything.
> 
> 
> 
> No schedules banning men anywhere ever. Nothing in the code of conduct and pool rules either. It says the fitness facilities and classes are open to anyone during business hours.  No restrictions on who can sign up. Other than the restriction on minors, and those who are criminals or disobeying the law,more misbehaving, which they have stated. So if they wanted to reserve the right to restrict ANY group, they could have clearly stated so.
> 
> At one time, there used to be a lot of YWCA's, Young WOMENS Christian Association, remember?  That would be a place for a class like this. And even then it cannot have any Muslim implications.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why can't these women just go in the pool with everyone else?
Click to expand...


What does this have to do with the conversation at hand?


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No it isn't.
> 
> Schedules can be found on line before one signs up, the YMCA isn't hiding anything.
> 
> 
> 
> No schedules banning men anywhere ever. Nothing in the code of conduct and pool rules either. It says the fitness facilities and classes are open to anyone during business hours.  No restrictions on who can sign up. Other than the restriction on minors, and those who are criminals or disobeying the law,more misbehaving, which they have stated. So if they wanted to reserve the right to restrict ANY group, they could have clearly stated so.
> 
> At one time, there used to be a lot of YWCA's, Young WOMENS Christian Association, remember?  That would be a place for a class like this. And even then it cannot have any Muslim implications.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why can't these women just go in the pool with everyone else?
Click to expand...

That's what I said. If the Jewish women can find a pool to do their religious bullshit ritual thing, why can't the Muslims?  Why do they have to force their religious stupidity and take away other peoples right to enjoy the facilities?


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No schedules banning men anywhere ever. Nothing in the code of conduct and pool rules either. It says the fitness facilities and classes are open to anyone during business hours.  No restrictions on who can sign up. Other than the restriction on minors, and those who are criminals or disobeying the law,more misbehaving, which they have stated. So if they wanted to reserve the right to restrict ANY group, they could have clearly stated so.
> 
> At one time, there used to be a lot of YWCA's, Young WOMENS Christian Association, remember?  That would be a place for a class like this. And even then it cannot have any Muslim implications.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't these women just go in the pool with everyone else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does this have to do with the conversation at hand?
Click to expand...

Everything.


----------



## paulitician

Sharia Law indicates Government action. I don't have a problem with what private organizations decide. If the YMCA's Membership is ok with it, than so be it. If their Membership isn't ok with it, they'll likely end it. That's how it works. However, if Government gets involved, it's a different matter entirely. We would then be having a legitimate discussion about Law. 'Creeping Sharia' is a theory being debated. Some think it is happening in Western Nations. I can't give a definitive opinion on it though. I just haven't looked into it enough. When or if the Government gets involved, i'll definitely weigh in.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't these women just go in the pool with everyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does this have to do with the conversation at hand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everything.
Click to expand...


How so? 

Who cares what the preferences/non-preferences are of any group? As long as they're not FORCING anyone to accommodate them, you shouldn't be whining.

The YMCA is voluntarily setting up these swim classes. I repeat: ...VOLUNTARILY. If the government was forcing them to provide a class then I'd be upset to. But that's not the case.

Again, it all comes down to the fact that the owners of the pool can do what they want with the assets it owns. The owners (and not ROUDY) get to decide how and when the pool area is used.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> No schedules banning men anywhere ever. Nothing in the code of conduct and pool rules either. It says the fitness facilities and classes are open to anyone during business hours.  No restrictions on who can sign up. Other than the restriction on minors, and those who are criminals or disobeying the law,more misbehaving, which they have stated. So if they wanted to reserve the right to restrict ANY group, they could have clearly stated so.
> 
> At one time, there used to be a lot of YWCA's, Young WOMENS Christian Association, remember?  That would be a place for a class like this. And even then it cannot have any Muslim implications.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't these women just go in the pool with everyone else?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's what I said. *If the Jewish women can find a pool to do their religious bullshit ritual thing*, why can't the Muslims?  Why do they have to force their religious stupidity and take away other peoples right to enjoy the facilities?
Click to expand...


Actually, they take part in YMCA women's only classes.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fraud? False advertising?
> 
> Membership Benefits | YMCA Twin Cities
> 
> Member Services
> 21 YMCA Locations
> *Open 7 days a week*
> No annual contracts
> 30-day money back guarantee
> *Access* to Ys across the U.S.
> 
> Fitness
> Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
> State-of-the-art fitness centers
> *Pools, gyms and running tracks. Check amenities*
> Free fitness consultations
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> How do these classes violate the terms of membership?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They don't. That's what they are offering to people on their website, nincompoop
> 
> "Ages 15+ can attend *ALL FITNESS LEVELS.*"  in other words: No restrictions.
> 
> I'd say their goose is cooked.
Click to expand...


That only refers to "Fitness Levels".


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pay attention Esmeralda. It is not about the one hour, it is about taking something away from a group of members, the men, that they clearly paid for.  So they are defrauding their customers just to appease Muslims.
> 
> You have no problem with stepping over people just to appease Shariah law requirements?  Fine.
> 
> I'm not okay with it.
> How about you own up to what you are?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read the fucking post you idiot.  They men at any YMCA, like anyone else, is prohibited from using the pool when certain classes are going on.  YOU are just pissed off because this particular class is for Muslims. Any other class and you'd have no problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any other class that takes away total access to the pool to the regular members, or does not allow men to attend, and they'd also be in violation, which means I'd have a problem with it. I'd be just as upset if this was done for orthodox Jewish women.  The Y is simply not the place for this kind of bullshit. Take it somewhere else.
> *
> Besides, all that these kinds of requests do is generate hatred and animosity towards a certain group. *
> 
> I'm sure you're all for that, right?
Click to expand...


They only seem to be generating hatred and animosity from those like you, and it's only directed at Muslims - not the many other women who enjoy and support a 1 hour a week women's only swim time, including Orthodox Jews.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey dipshit, if it's not in the contract they can't arbitrarily ban men from using the pool just because a bunch of religious Muslims want to flap their fat asses in the pool.  *And as your partner Islam apologist Coyote just posted, there are many instances of other members threatening and getting upset over this.*  So clearly, the members are also on the same page as I am.
> 
> And the only instances where this is happening is because of Muslim sensitivities, you can't show me any other instance where this persecution that you are justifying occurs at the Y, can you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  Roudy.
> 
> As I posted there are not _"many instances of other members threatening and getting upset over this"_ - geez, don't you even read before making stuff up?
> 
> In what I posted, there was *one instance* - one facility - where threats were issued.  *It did not state the threats came from members*.  In fact, this is what it stated:
> _The swim, designed for any woman who doesn't want her bare skin to be seen by men  either for personal or cultural reasons  was cancelled last week after anonymous threats were made saying it would be disrupted.​_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So all the instances of "women only" had to do with Muslim sensitivity issues.  *You can't find any other other instances that men or women are being discrimination from using the pool.*  Put up or shut up.
Click to expand...


I did Roudy.  I posted multiple articles for women's only swim that had the support of non-Muslims as well.  I'm not going to repeat myself.

You going to keep on making shit up?


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any Y that allows women only swimming due to Muslim sensitivities is breaking it's contractual obligations.  Now go sit in your corner when adults are talking, dunce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What contract are they breaking specifically? What part of said contract are they breaking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Go back and read the previous posts.  You're a little late to the party Gomer.
Click to expand...


There's no contract being broken - that's what Roudy can't seem to comprehend.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  Roudy.
> 
> As I posted there are not _"many instances of other members threatening and getting upset over this"_ - geez, don't you even read before making stuff up?
> 
> In what I posted, there was *one instance* - one facility - where threats were issued.  *It did not state the threats came from members*.  In fact, this is what it stated:
> _The swim, designed for any woman who doesn't want her bare skin to be seen by men  either for personal or cultural reasons  was cancelled last week after anonymous threats were made saying it would be disrupted.​_
> 
> 
> 
> So all the instances of "women only" had to do with Muslim sensitivity issues.  *You can't find any other other instances that men or women are being discrimination from using the pool.*  Put up or shut up.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did Roudy.  I posted multiple articles for women's only swim that had the support of non-Muslims as well.  I'm not going to repeat myself.
> 
> You going to keep on making shit up?
Click to expand...

I asked for instances where womens only swim did not have a Muslim component to it.  You showed me three more instances where Muslims are infringing, and one which members were angry at the Y.  

So you basically proved my point.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, and nowhere on the schedule does it say men are banned, or the management reserves the right to exclude certain members from pool usage.
> 
> I rest my case once more, Coyote of the Foot In Mouth Disease.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh, another dodge.  You would do well to rest your case as you really haven't a case.
> 
> The point made (and I thought it was pretty clear) - is that the Y membership benefits do NOT guarantee unrestricted access.  The example with the pool indicates that members should check the schedule for the open times.
> 
> Thought that was pretty obvious dude
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can you show me where it says there is restricted access to the pool area due to gender, at the YMCA aka Young MEN'S Christian Association?  Come on DUFUS, let's see it.
Click to expand...


You're not making any sense here, let's reiterate the facts:

The YMCA is a privately owned organization that offers classes and recreational opportunities to men, women, and children regardless of what it's name says.

Nowhere in it's membership package does it state that a member is guaranteed access to all facilities during all hours of operation - in fact, where anything is said at all, it is "check the schedule".

You repeatedly ask people to prove negatives because Roudy - you can't come up with a contract or rule that supports your claim.

In the end - they are a private business.  They can do what they want within the law.


----------



## Coyote

Iceman said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What contract are they breaking specifically? What part of said contract are they breaking?
> 
> 
> 
> Go back and read the previous posts.  You're a little late to the party Gomer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Which page is the contract on in this thread? And which part of the contract should I look at to see where the violation occurred? To have a point of reference.
Click to expand...


He's been unable to provide any Iceman, therefore he clowns around.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Geez, you really put your foot in your mouth with that one, didn't you.   I was talking about OTHER INSTANCES. And here you were bullshitting everybody that it's not about Muslims and Shariah, but rather about not having men <ha ha ha>.  I REST MY CASE YOUR OWN.  YOU JUST HUNG YOURSELF:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You kind of missed a few pertinant details in your rush here.  It's not about "Shariah" - or to be more accurate, imposing Shariah on anyone nor is it for Muslims only.
> 
> 
> 
> If you read the article, you would also have read that they specifically asked for *"women-only"* swim - not "Muslim only", not "Shariah".  You also missed something else: they are doing it as an after hours event which should put your mind at ease in regards to having your requisite access to a facility you neither support nor are a member of.
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy - aren't you missing something here?  Are they being forced to wear Shariah-compliant clothing?  Or, can they wear what they wish within the pool's rules regarding attire?  *Is anyone being forced to wear something unwillingly?*  Indeed, it states that the majority (though not all) of this particular swim session are Muslim - so what?  They are the group, in this particular area, that most wants a women-only swim period.
> 
> So, to go back to your statement Roudy:  where is anyone being forced to wear anything unwillingly and, even from what *you* quoted - they are certainly not wearing street clothes either.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said the threats came from the members Roudy?  Are you saying it's ok to issue threats against innocent people?  Is that kind of like saying it's ok to issue threats when blacks were being integrated into white schools because it's "not ok" with the members?  Seriously Roudy?
> 
> 
> 
> Well Roudy, let's review the points made, and you tell me if indeed these are your points:
> 
> Various Y's offer "women-only" swim periods that are open to all women.
> There is no required dress code beyond what is called for in the pool rules.
> It's ok to threaten Muslim women and little girls for wanting a women-only swim period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're DISMISSED.  Shooooooo!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In case you haven't figured it out yet Roudy, the class clown is not the boss of me
> 
> Maybe you can clarify another point that seems to wind it's way through out the thread.
> 
> Do you have issues with women having a free choice?  You seem to want to force them to wear what *you* want them to wear.  You like to make fun of them if they want to be able to excercise without being watched (or cat called) by men.  In fact, if they have reservations, you disparingly refer to them as "fatties".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *All of this blabber and you still can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism.  Come on smarty pants, 2600 branches, Google  Ha ha ha.  *
Click to expand...


You sure like *to keep moving the goal posts don't you kiddo*?  Now it's " can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism".


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> What contract are they breaking specifically? What part of said contract are they breaking?
> 
> 
> 
> Go back and read the previous posts.  You're a little late to the party Gomer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There's no contract being broken - that's what Roudy can't seem to comprehend.
Click to expand...

They are bound by what they advertise and represent.  A contract is not always written and signed.  They are advertising open access to all members of all sexes and all races and religions 7 days a week during business hours.  

You seriously are claiming that a Christian health club chain called the Young Men's Christian Association can sell memberships based on equal and unlimited access to everyone, and then arbitrarily close off certain areas to WOMEN ONLY, and not be in violation of their own policies of inclusivity and diversity?  Ha ha ha.  Get a life will ya.  I already embarassed you enough.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So all the instances of "women only" had to do with Muslim sensitivity issues.  *You can't find any other other instances that men or women are being discrimination from using the pool.*  Put up or shut up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did Roudy.  I posted multiple articles for women's only swim that had the support of non-Muslims as well.  I'm not going to repeat myself.
> 
> You going to keep on making shit up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked for instances where womens only swim did not have a Muslim component to it.  You showed me three more instances where Muslims are infringing, *and one which members were angry at the Y.  *
> 
> So you basically proved my point.
Click to expand...


Roudy, there is no point in debate if you are going to insist on making stuff up.

Offering women only classes - as long as they are open to all women - are not "infringing" on anyone but you (although given you aren't even a member in those places, that is debatable).

I showed you NO instances where members were angry at the Y.  Either brush up on your reading skills or quit lying.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Go back and read the previous posts.  You're a little late to the party Gomer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no contract being broken - that's what Roudy can't seem to comprehend.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are bound by what they advertise and represent.  A contract is not always written and signed.  They are advertising open access to all members of all sexes and all races and religions 7 days a week during business hours.
> 
> You seriously are claiming that a Christian health club chain called the Young Men's Christian Association can sell memberships based on equal and unlimited access to everyone, and then arbitrarily close off certain areas to WOMEN ONLY, and not be in violation of their own policies of inclusivity and diversity?  Ha ha ha.  Get a life will ya.  I already embarassed you enough.
Click to expand...


Nowhere do they advertise unrestricted access to all facilities during hours of operation - you haven't shown a single example that is not highly ambiguous at best.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High_Gravity said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't these women just go in the pool with everyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I said. *If the Jewish women can find a pool to do their religious bullshit ritual thing*, why can't the Muslims?  Why do they have to force their religious stupidity and take away other peoples right to enjoy the facilities?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, they take part in YMCA women's only classes.
Click to expand...

LIE:

Ann Fuller, executive director of the *North Seattle Family Center, *.  North Seattle Family Center is not the Y.

So you intentionally created a false link to justify your claim.

And the "other Y" mentioned in this article?  "That's nice. *It's not segregated *but brings Christians, Muslims and Jews to socialize together and play together."

Get lost, you just lost all credibility.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You kind of missed a few pertinant details in your rush here.  It's not about "Shariah" - or to be more accurate, imposing Shariah on anyone nor is it for Muslims only.
> 
> 
> 
> If you read the article, you would also have read that they specifically asked for *"women-only"* swim - not "Muslim only", not "Shariah".  You also missed something else: they are doing it as an after hours event which should put your mind at ease in regards to having your requisite access to a facility you neither support nor are a member of.
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy - aren't you missing something here?  Are they being forced to wear Shariah-compliant clothing?  Or, can they wear what they wish within the pool's rules regarding attire?  *Is anyone being forced to wear something unwillingly?*  Indeed, it states that the majority (though not all) of this particular swim session are Muslim - so what?  They are the group, in this particular area, that most wants a women-only swim period.
> 
> So, to go back to your statement Roudy:  where is anyone being forced to wear anything unwillingly and, even from what *you* quoted - they are certainly not wearing street clothes either.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said the threats came from the members Roudy?  Are you saying it's ok to issue threats against innocent people?  Is that kind of like saying it's ok to issue threats when blacks were being integrated into white schools because it's "not ok" with the members?  Seriously Roudy?
> 
> 
> 
> Well Roudy, let's review the points made, and you tell me if indeed these are your points:
> 
> Various Y's offer "women-only" swim periods that are open to all women.
> There is no required dress code beyond what is called for in the pool rules.
> It's ok to threaten Muslim women and little girls for wanting a women-only swim period.
> 
> 
> 
> In case you haven't figured it out yet Roudy, the class clown is not the boss of me
> 
> Maybe you can clarify another point that seems to wind it's way through out the thread.
> 
> Do you have issues with women having a free choice?  You seem to want to force them to wear what *you* want them to wear.  You like to make fun of them if they want to be able to excercise without being watched (or cat called) by men.  In fact, if they have reservations, you disparingly refer to them as "fatties".
> 
> 
> 
> *All of this blabber and you still can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism.  Come on smarty pants, 2600 branches, Google  Ha ha ha.  *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sure like *to keep moving the goal posts don't you kiddo*?  Now it's " can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism".
Click to expand...

Yes, I asked for a single Y that segregates men and women other than for this Shariah swim bullshit and you provided more 3 more instances of the same outrageous bullshit.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> You kind of missed a few pertinant details in your rush here.  It's not about "Shariah" - or to be more accurate, imposing Shariah on anyone nor is it for Muslims only.
> 
> 
> 
> If you read the article, you would also have read that they specifically asked for *"women-only"* swim - not "Muslim only", not "Shariah".  You also missed something else: they are doing it as an after hours event which should put your mind at ease in regards to having your requisite access to a facility you neither support nor are a member of.
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy - aren't you missing something here?  Are they being forced to wear Shariah-compliant clothing?  Or, can they wear what they wish within the pool's rules regarding attire?  *Is anyone being forced to wear something unwillingly?*  Indeed, it states that the majority (though not all) of this particular swim session are Muslim - so what?  They are the group, in this particular area, that most wants a women-only swim period.
> 
> So, to go back to your statement Roudy:  where is anyone being forced to wear anything unwillingly and, even from what *you* quoted - they are certainly not wearing street clothes either.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said the threats came from the members Roudy?  Are you saying it's ok to issue threats against innocent people?  Is that kind of like saying it's ok to issue threats when blacks were being integrated into white schools because it's "not ok" with the members?  Seriously Roudy?
> 
> 
> 
> Well Roudy, let's review the points made, and you tell me if indeed these are your points:
> 
> Various Y's offer "women-only" swim periods that are open to all women.
> There is no required dress code beyond what is called for in the pool rules.
> It's ok to threaten Muslim women and little girls for wanting a women-only swim period.
> 
> 
> 
> In case you haven't figured it out yet Roudy, the class clown is not the boss of me
> 
> Maybe you can clarify another point that seems to wind it's way through out the thread.
> 
> Do you have issues with women having a free choice?  You seem to want to force them to wear what *you* want them to wear.  You like to make fun of them if they want to be able to excercise without being watched (or cat called) by men.  In fact, if they have reservations, you disparingly refer to them as "fatties".
> 
> 
> 
> *All of this blabber and you still can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism.  Come on smarty pants, 2600 branches, Google  Ha ha ha.  *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You sure like *to keep moving the goal posts don't you kiddo*?  Now it's " can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism".
Click to expand...

How did I move the goal post:

"All of this blabber and you still can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men *OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism. *Come on smarty pants, 2600 branches, Google Ha ha ha."

And then idiot posts three more instances of swim Shariah.  Serious reading comprehension problems. Ha ha ha.


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iceman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> How do these classes violate the terms of membership?
> 
> 
> 
> They don't. That's what they are offering to people on their website, nincompoop
> 
> "Ages 15+ can attend *ALL FITNESS LEVELS.*"  in other words: No restrictions.
> 
> I'd say their goose is cooked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That only refers to "Fitness Levels".
Click to expand...

The Gym is a "Fitness Level"
Another Fitness level would be the pool.
And yet another Fitness level could be the cycling area, or pilates, and so on.

Learn how to read, DUMBASS.

Member Services

21 YMCA Locations
*Open 7 days a week*
No annual contracts
30-day money back guarantee
*Access to Ys across the U.S.*

Fitness
Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
*State-of-the-art fitness centers
Pools, gyms and running tracks*. Check amenities
Free fitness consultations

"Ages 15+ *can attend ALL FITNESS LEVELS*." in other words: No restrictions OTHER THAN AGE.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> They don't. That's what they are offering to people on their website, nincompoop
> 
> "Ages 15+ can attend *ALL FITNESS LEVELS.*"  in other words: No restrictions.
> 
> I'd say their goose is cooked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That only refers to "Fitness Levels".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Gym is a "Fitness Level"
> Another Fitness level would be the pool.
> And yet another Fitness level could be the cycling area, or pilates, and so on.
> 
> Learn how to read, DUMBASS.
> 
> Member Services
> 
> 21 YMCA Locations
> *Open 7 days a week*
> No annual contracts
> 30-day money back guarantee
> *Access to Ys across the U.S.*
> 
> Fitness
> Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
> *State-of-the-art fitness centers
> Pools, gyms and running tracks*. Check amenities
> Free fitness consultations
> 
> "Ages 15+ *can attend ALL FITNESS LEVELS*." in other words: No restrictions OTHER THAN AGE.
Click to expand...


In other words they have access - but *nowhere does it say unrestricted*.  You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes.  Thus they tell you to check the schedule.

Edited to add:

I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym.  Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> *All of this blabber and you still can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism.  Come on smarty pants, 2600 branches, Google  Ha ha ha.  *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You sure like *to keep moving the goal posts don't you kiddo*?  Now it's " can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How did I move the goal post:
> 
> "All of this blabber and you still can't show me a single instance of a Y being closed off to men *OTHER THAN appeasing Muslim Shariah barbarism. *Come on smarty pants, 2600 branches, Google Ha ha ha."
> 
> And then idiot posts three more instances of swim Shariah.  Serious reading comprehension problems. Ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


You ask for other examples of women only swimming, which were provided.  You now insist on calling it "swim shariah" when it's open to all women, of any religion, and any state of swimwear allowable under pool rules.  I can find NO examples of pools closed for Muslim women only.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> So all the instances of "women only" had to do with Muslim sensitivity issues.  *You can't find any other other instances that men or women are being discrimination from using the pool.*  Put up or shut up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did Roudy.  I posted multiple articles for women's only swim that had the support of non-Muslims as well.  I'm not going to repeat myself.
> 
> You going to keep on making shit up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I asked for instances where womens only swim did not have a Muslim component to it.  You showed me three more instances where Muslims are infringing, and one which members were angry at the Y.
> 
> So you basically proved my point.
Click to expand...



Here's the situation summed up:

1.) St. Paul YMCA purchases a pool with its own money and decides what the rules will be
2.) Roudy - who has no connection to the St. Paul facility and owns none of the assets - is unhappy with the way the Y manages its property
3.) Roudy whines about it
4.) Roudy whines some more about it
5.) (Nothing happens)
6.) Conclusion: if your view is that a pool should provide 100% access to members at all times, go buy your own facility and sell memberships. As an owner you can make this decision.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I said. *If the Jewish women can find a pool to do their religious bullshit ritual thing*, why can't the Muslims?  Why do they have to force their religious stupidity and take away other peoples right to enjoy the facilities?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, they take part in YMCA women's only classes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LIE:
> 
> Ann Fuller, executive director of the *North Seattle Family Center, *.  North Seattle Family Center is not the Y.
> 
> So you intentionally created a false link to justify your claim.
> 
> And the "other Y" mentioned in this article?  "That's nice. *It's not segregated *but brings Christians, Muslims and Jews to socialize together and play together."
> 
> Get lost, you just lost all credibility.
Click to expand...



You should have kept reading, and you would have seen the portion of the article I was referring to:


> At the *Everett Family YMCA*, women of different faith  *Muslim, Jewish and Christian  come together for twice-monthly swims through a program organized three years ago by Interfaith Association of Snohomish County.*
> 
> Karen Fagerberg, associate executive director of the Everett Family YMCA, said that on a slow day they see four people, and on a busy day 30-plus. "The program is not just for Muslim women, but Christians and Jewish women, too.
> 
> "That's nice. It's not segregated but brings Christians, Muslims and Jews to socialize together and play together."


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> That only refers to "Fitness Levels".
> 
> 
> 
> The Gym is a "Fitness Level"
> Another Fitness level would be the pool.
> And yet another Fitness level could be the cycling area, or pilates, and so on.
> 
> Learn how to read, DUMBASS.
> 
> Member Services
> 
> 21 YMCA Locations
> *Open 7 days a week*
> No annual contracts
> 30-day money back guarantee
> *Access to Ys across the U.S.*
> 
> Fitness
> Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
> *State-of-the-art fitness centers
> Pools, gyms and running tracks*. Check amenities
> Free fitness consultations
> 
> "Ages 15+ *can attend ALL FITNESS LEVELS*." in other words: No restrictions OTHER THAN AGE.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but *nowhere does it say unrestricted*.  You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes.  Thus they tell you to check the schedule.
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym.  Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty.
Click to expand...

In other words they have access - but nowhere does it say unrestricted. *if it was restricted, then it would say so.  As it did with age restrictions.  Duh!*

You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*

Edited to add:

I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym. Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty. *Yeah?  However you define fitness levels it still clearly says that ages 15+ can attend all fitness levels.  That means ALL CAN ATTEND  and there is GENDER NO SEGREGATION...*


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, they take part in YMCA women's only classes.
> 
> 
> 
> LIE:
> 
> Ann Fuller, executive director of the *North Seattle Family Center, *.  North Seattle Family Center is not the Y.
> 
> So you intentionally created a false link to justify your claim.
> 
> And the "other Y" mentioned in this article?  "That's nice. *It's not segregated *but brings Christians, Muslims and Jews to socialize together and play together."
> 
> Get lost, you just lost all credibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You should have kept reading, and you would have seen the portion of the article I was referring to:
> 
> 
> 
> At the *Everett Family YMCA*, women of different faith &#8212; *Muslim, Jewish and Christian &#8212; come together for twice-monthly swims through a program organized three years ago by Interfaith Association of Snohomish County.*
> 
> Karen Fagerberg, associate executive director of the Everett Family YMCA, said that on a slow day they see four people, and on a busy day 30-plus. "The program is not just for Muslim women, but Christians and Jewish women, too.
> 
> "That's nice. It's not segregated but brings Christians, Muslims and Jews to socialize together and play together."
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I kept reading and discovered your fake link making it look as if there was a womens only swim at that Y,  and then your lie:

"That's nice. *It's not segregated.... *"

Are you e'fing blind?  Ya think that particular Y had enough common sense NOT to segregate it like the idiots at the other Y?

So at this point, I would like to see where in the article it indicates a women's only swim at that particular Y, as YOU LIED in your post.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Gym is a "Fitness Level"
> Another Fitness level would be the pool.
> And yet another Fitness level could be the cycling area, or pilates, and so on.
> 
> Learn how to read, DUMBASS.
> 
> Member Services
> 
> 21 YMCA Locations
> *Open 7 days a week*
> No annual contracts
> 30-day money back guarantee
> *Access to Ys across the U.S.*
> 
> Fitness
> Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
> *State-of-the-art fitness centers
> Pools, gyms and running tracks*. Check amenities
> Free fitness consultations
> 
> "Ages 15+ *can attend ALL FITNESS LEVELS*." in other words: No restrictions OTHER THAN AGE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but *nowhere does it say unrestricted*.  You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes.  Thus they tell you to check the schedule.
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym.  Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words they have access - but nowhere does it say unrestricted. *if it was restricted, then it would say so.  As it did with age restrictions.  Duh!*
> 
> You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym. Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty. *Yeah?  However you define fitness levels it still clearly says that ages 15+ can attend all fitness levels.  That means ALL CAN ATTEND  and there is GENDER NO SEGREGATION...*
Click to expand...

[/quote]

Roudy, if "Fitness Levels" refer to levels of fitness "ability" - then all that says is age is no restriction to class ability levels. That's certainly how I read it.  It does not say there is unrestricted access to all areas during operational hours.  You're basically throwing mud to see if anything sticks.

If "Fitness Level" refers to specific areas rather than individual ability - please provide that info because I can't find it.

Who cares' WHEN they started a women's only class or because it was because "Muslims" showed up - the point is, as a private entity it's within their rights and it is enjoyed by all women, not just Muslims.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Gym is a "Fitness Level"
> Another Fitness level would be the pool.
> And yet another Fitness level could be the cycling area, or pilates, and so on.
> 
> Learn how to read, DUMBASS.
> 
> Member Services
> 
> 21 YMCA Locations
> *Open 7 days a week*
> No annual contracts
> 30-day money back guarantee
> *Access to Ys across the U.S.*
> 
> Fitness
> Nationally-certified fitness and wellness experts on staff
> *State-of-the-art fitness centers
> Pools, gyms and running tracks*. Check amenities
> Free fitness consultations
> 
> "Ages 15+ *can attend ALL FITNESS LEVELS*." in other words: No restrictions OTHER THAN AGE.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but *nowhere does it say unrestricted*.  You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes.  Thus they tell you to check the schedule.
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym.  Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In other words they have access - but nowhere does it say unrestricted. *if it was restricted, then it would say so.  As it did with age restrictions.  Duh!*
> 
> You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym. Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty. *Yeah?  However you define fitness levels it still clearly says that ages 15+ can attend all fitness levels.  That means ALL CAN ATTEND  and there is GENDER NO SEGREGATION...*
Click to expand...


Does a few words promoting a facility on a website serve as a legal contract, Roudy?

Are your obscure interpretations of the wording (since none of the wording is specific to the issue at hand) going to hold up in a court of law?

If no, then why bother?


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but *nowhere does it say unrestricted*.  You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes.  Thus they tell you to check the schedule.
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym.  Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but nowhere does it say unrestricted. *if it was restricted, then it would say so.  As it did with age restrictions.  Duh!*
> 
> You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym. Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty. *Yeah?  However you define fitness levels it still clearly says that ages 15+ can attend all fitness levels.  That means ALL CAN ATTEND  and there is GENDER NO SEGREGATION...*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Roudy, if "Fitness Levels" refer to levels of fitness "ability" - then all that says is age is no restriction to class ability levels. That's certainly how I read it.  It does not say there is unrestricted access to all areas during operational hours.  You're basically throwing mud to see if anything sticks.

If "Fitness Level" refers to specific areas rather than individual ability - please provide that info because I can't find it.

Who cares' WHEN they started a women's only class or because it was because "Muslims" showed up - the point is, as a private entity it's within their rights and it is enjoyed by all women, not just Muslims.[/QUOTE]
So you can't 

A- show me another instance that they Y started segregating sexes other than when Muslims showed up
B- show me where it shows "access" is restricted to gender, as other restrictions have been listed
C- show me where in this link you just posted as a LIE  that "actually, they take part in YMCA women's only classes. http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2002389078_muslimswim.html" when the entity providing "Muslims only swim" was NOT the Y.

D- Ever heard of the Y*W*CA? Dumb ass.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but *nowhere does it say unrestricted*.  You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes.  Thus they tell you to check the schedule.
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym.  Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but nowhere does it say unrestricted. *if it was restricted, then it would say so.  As it did with age restrictions.  Duh!*
> 
> You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym. Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty. *Yeah?  However you define fitness levels it still clearly says that ages 15+ can attend all fitness levels.  That means ALL CAN ATTEND  and there is GENDER NO SEGREGATION...*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Does a few words promoting a facility on a website serve as a legal contract, Roudy?
> 
> Are your obscure interpretations of the wording (since none of the wording is specific to the issue at hand) going to hold up in a court of law?
> 
> If no, then why bother?
Click to expand...

Yes, of course it does.  Because from that very website you access the online application and pay your deposit and membership fees as well.  Check it out.  You cannot advertise one thing and provide another.  If you're providing access, 7 days a week, you can't restrict it unless said restrictions are listed BEFORE you  pay and finalize the online contract.  

Contracts can be verbal and online.  The Y would have ZERO chance to get away with this in a court of law.  The judge or jury would laugh off the excuses you guys are making.


----------



## High_Gravity

Roudy said:


> A- show me another instance that they Y started segregating sexes other than when Muslims showed up
> .



Good god damn point Roudy, if this was all about modesty the pools would have been segregated decades ago.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but nowhere does it say unrestricted. *if it was restricted, then it would say so.  As it did with age restrictions.  Duh!*
> 
> You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym. Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty. *Yeah?  However you define fitness levels it still clearly says that ages 15+ can attend all fitness levels.  That means ALL CAN ATTEND  and there is GENDER NO SEGREGATION...*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does a few words promoting a facility on a website serve as a legal contract, Roudy?
> 
> Are your obscure interpretations of the wording (since none of the wording is specific to the issue at hand) going to hold up in a court of law?
> 
> If no, then why bother?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, of course it does.  Because from that very website you access the online application and pay your deposit and membership fees as well.  Check it out.  You cannot advertise one thing and provide another.  If you're providing access, 7 days a week, you can't restrict it unless said restrictions are listed BEFORE you  pay and finalize the online contract.
> 
> Contracts can be verbal and online.  The Y would have ZERO chance to get away with this in a court of law.  The judge or jury would laugh off the excuses you guys are making.
Click to expand...


THEY ARE PROVIDING access 7 days a week. If you recall the class is only one hour, once a week. That leaves about 10 hours of additional open pool time on the day of the class for general members. 

Members have access to the pool 7 days a week; I don't understand what's been violated.

Again, so you're admitting this is a non-muslim issue but rather an issue pertaining to the legality of a pool owner having the ability to set rules for the pool he/she owns, right?


----------



## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but *nowhere does it say unrestricted*.  You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes.  Thus they tell you to check the schedule.
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym.  Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but nowhere does it say unrestricted. *if it was restricted, then it would say so.  As it did with age restrictions.  Duh!*
> 
> You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym. Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty. *Yeah?  However you define fitness levels it still clearly says that ages 15+ can attend all fitness levels.  That means ALL CAN ATTEND  and there is GENDER NO SEGREGATION...*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Roudy, if "Fitness Levels" refer to levels of fitness "ability" - then all that says is age is no restriction to class ability levels. That's certainly how I read it.  It does not say there is unrestricted access to all areas during operational hours.  You're basically throwing mud to see if anything sticks.

If "Fitness Level" refers to specific areas rather than individual ability - please provide that info because I can't find it.

Who cares' WHEN they started a women's only class or because it was because "Muslims" showed up - the point is, as a private entity it's within their rights and it is enjoyed by all women, not just Muslims.[/QUOTE]
The "Fitness Levels" was derived from this page:

Water Exercise | YMCA Twin Cities

*WATER EXERCISE*
FIND A CLASS
FREE FOR MEMBERS
Drop-in Classes
No registration required
All fitness levels
Ages 10-14 may attend with parent/guardian.
Ages 15+ may attend unaccompanied. All fitness levels.

*So it's referring to SWIMMING FITNESS LEVELS.*

Then goes on the explain what those classes and "levels" are:

Active Older Adult Water Exercise
Designed with the active older adult in mind and combines a light to moderate aerobic workout with exercises in the shallow and/or deep water.

Aqua Zumba
Integrates the Zumba formula with traditional aqua fitness disciplines. All fitness levels.

Arthritis Water Exercise
An Arthritis Foundation-certified instructor guides you through gentle activities in warm water. Arthritis diagnosis is not required. Swimming skills are not required.

Arthritis Water Exercise Plus
Builds on basic moves from Arthritis Water Exercise. Arthritis diagnosis is not required. Swimming skills are not required.

Deep Water
A low-intensity water workout focuses on major muscle groups.

Deep Water Power
A high-intensity water workout for the entire body with no impact on the lower body.

Fibromyalgia Interval Training
Aquatic exercises designed to help you manage the pain, stiffness and fatigue associated with Fibromyalgia.

H2O Flow
Aquatic exercise based on elements of Yoga, Tai Chi and Pilates. Suitable for all levels of conditioning.

Kid/Family Water Exercise
A variety of interactive activities, skills and drills utilizing equipment will be used for increasing strength, endurance and balance for parent and child.

Multiple Sclerosis Water Exercise
An MS Society-certified instructor helps you gain strength and balance, increase circulation and improve range-of-motion. MS diagnosis is not required. Swimming skills are not required.

Shallow Water
A low-impact water workout held in shallow water. Swimming skills are not required.

Shallow Water Power
A high-intensity, low-impact workout focused on cardiovascular training, muscle toning, flexibility and coordination. Swimming skills are not required.

Silver Splash
Utilizes the physical properties of water to enhance agility, range of motion, and cardiovascular conditioning.

Vortex Water Exercise
A low-impact workout. Held in heated indoor vortex pool. Shallow Water. Swimming skills are not necessary.

Vortex Water Power
Class consists of a series of intense cardio movements. Held in heated indoor vortex pool. Shallow Water. Swimming skills are not necessary.

Water Boot Camp
A rugged workout of sports drills, circuits and interval training using the properties of water. Conducted in shallow and deep water.

Water Tabata
High intensity interval trainin with a series of four minute exercise sequences.

Water Vertizontal
Combines the best of vertical deep water aerobics, cardio core programming and synchronized swimming inspired horizontal work.

Water Walking
Basic, low-impact, light-intensity workout using the natural resistance of water. Appropriate for beginners to exercise.

Water X Power
A high-intensity workout for strength and endurance. Conducted in both shallow and deep water.

* Do you see any restrictions or gender based limitations? NO.  

You having nothing. *


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*



So you're basically a gender crusader, out to provide protection to men everywhere who are discriminated against with pool rules. 

Oh the plight of the modern man, unable to swim for one specific hour at this one specific pool in St. Paul; such a relevant and meaningful conversation.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does a few words promoting a facility on a website serve as a legal contract, Roudy?
> 
> Are your obscure interpretations of the wording (since none of the wording is specific to the issue at hand) going to hold up in a court of law?
> 
> If no, then why bother?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course it does.  Because from that very website you access the online application and pay your deposit and membership fees as well.  Check it out.  You cannot advertise one thing and provide another.  If you're providing access, 7 days a week, you can't restrict it unless said restrictions are listed BEFORE you  pay and finalize the online contract.
> 
> Contracts can be verbal and online.  The Y would have ZERO chance to get away with this in a court of law.  The judge or jury would laugh off the excuses you guys are making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> THEY ARE PROVIDING access 7 days a week. If you recall the class is only one hour, once a week. That leaves about 10 hours of additional open pool time on the day of the class for general members.
> 
> Members have access to the pool 7 days a week; I don't understand what's been violated.
> 
> Again, so you're admitting this is a non-muslim issue but rather an issue pertaining to the legality of a pool owner having the ability to set rules for the pool he/she owns, right?
Click to expand...

Who cares!  One hour, five minutes, or two days!  You cannot close off a gym with male members, to women only.  And especially one that was male and Christian based from it's inception.  

Again, ever heard of the Y*W*CA?

Close that off to Muslim women jumping in the pool with their Burkas as much as you want.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course it does.  Because from that very website you access the online application and pay your deposit and membership fees as well.  Check it out.  You cannot advertise one thing and provide another.  If you're providing access, 7 days a week, you can't restrict it unless said restrictions are listed BEFORE you  pay and finalize the online contract.
> 
> Contracts can be verbal and online.  The Y would have ZERO chance to get away with this in a court of law.  The judge or jury would laugh off the excuses you guys are making.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THEY ARE PROVIDING access 7 days a week. If you recall the class is only one hour, once a week. That leaves about 10 hours of additional open pool time on the day of the class for general members.
> 
> Members have access to the pool 7 days a week; I don't understand what's been violated.
> 
> Again, so you're admitting this is a non-muslim issue but rather an issue pertaining to the legality of a pool owner having the ability to set rules for the pool he/she owns, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who cares!  One hour, five minutes, or two days!  You cannot close off a gym with male members, to women only.  And especially one that was male and Christian based from it's inception.
> 
> Again, ever heard of the Y*W*CA?
> 
> Close that off to Muslim women jumping in the pool with their Burkas as much as you want.
Click to expand...


It most certainly does matter. It says access 7 days a week, and that's what the Y provides; access 7 days a week. Having the pool available 95% of the time one of those seven days and 100% the rest counts as "7 day access".


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're basically a gender crusader, out to provide protection to men everywhere who are discriminated against with pool rules.
> 
> Oh the plight of the modern man, unable to swim for one specific hour at this one specific pool in St. Paul; such a relevant and meaningful conversation.
Click to expand...

I'm a gender crusader?  I won't step in a gym that's not coed. 

You fail to see the bigger picture.  Inflexible religious people imposing their culture and superstitions in basically a secular all inclusive diverse institution such as the Y, that get's paid for this inclusivity.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're basically a gender crusader, out to provide protection to men everywhere who are discriminated against with pool rules.
> 
> Oh the plight of the modern man, unable to swim for one specific hour at this one specific pool in St. Paul; such a relevant and meaningful conversation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm a gender crusader?  I won't step in a gym that's not coed.
> 
> You fail to see the bigger picture.  Inflexible religious people imposing their culture and superstitions in basically a secular all inclusive diverse institution such as the Y, that get's paid for this inclusivity.
Click to expand...


Again, if the government was forcing the YMCA to do a no-male swim time to cater to Muslims, I'd be right with you.

But the fact this is a decision by a private company, internally.

WHAT IF these Muslim classes are bringing in a bit of extra money to the Y they would not otherwise earn? WHAT IF these classes build a strong rapport in the community attracting more costumers? You're whining about a private business making a choice (legally) to try a tactic that makes them more money. 


Are you anti-freedom for American businesses? Would you rather the government make all of the Y's decisions for them? WHAT IS YOUR POINT?


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> THEY ARE PROVIDING access 7 days a week. If you recall the class is only one hour, once a week. That leaves about 10 hours of additional open pool time on the day of the class for general members.
> 
> Members have access to the pool 7 days a week; I don't understand what's been violated.
> 
> Again, so you're admitting this is a non-muslim issue but rather an issue pertaining to the legality of a pool owner having the ability to set rules for the pool he/she owns, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares!  One hour, five minutes, or two days!  You cannot close off a gym with male members, to women only.  And especially one that was male and Christian based from it's inception.
> 
> Again, ever heard of the Y*W*CA?
> 
> Close that off to Muslim women jumping in the pool with their Burkas as much as you want.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It most certainly does matter. It says access 7 days a week, and that's what the Y provides; access 7 days a week. Having the pool available 95% of the time one of those seven days and 100% the rest counts as "7 day access".
Click to expand...

Not if there's a problem with the pool.  But if one group of members have access and males or females don't, I sure as hell would have a problem with it.  This would be just as disgusting if the Y suddenly decided to have "men only swimming" due to religious sensitivities.  And they of all groups have every right to do so, since it's started out as a male only organization.  

Bottom line, when you step into the Y, check your religion and superstitions at the door.


----------



## KevinWestern

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who cares!  One hour, five minutes, or two days!  You cannot close off a gym with male members, to women only.  And especially one that was male and Christian based from it's inception.
> 
> Again, ever heard of the Y*W*CA?
> 
> Close that off to Muslim women jumping in the pool with their Burkas as much as you want.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It most certainly does matter. It says access 7 days a week, and that's what the Y provides; access 7 days a week. Having the pool available 95% of the time one of those seven days and 100% the rest counts as "7 day access".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not if there's a problem with the pool.  But if one group of members have access and males or females don't, I sure as hell would have a problem with it.  This would be just as disgusting if the Y suddenly decided to have "men only swimming" due to religious sensitivities.  And they of all groups have every right to do so, since it's started out as a male only organization.
> 
> Bottom line, when you step into the Y, check your religion and superstitions at the door.
Click to expand...


Alright, I see this is going nowhere Roudy.

You can whine all you want. You can whine for the next 10 weeks, in fact. But at the end of the day these facts remain:

1.) You don't own the YMCA and can't decide what to do with the property they own
2.) You aren't a member at St. Pauls and therefore have no reason to complain about things that pertain to their members only (if members want to complain, they will)
3.) Whining isn't going to change anything except for lowering people's opinion of you. 

I bid you farewell.


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you're basically a gender crusader, out to provide protection to men everywhere who are discriminated against with pool rules.
> 
> Oh the plight of the modern man, unable to swim for one specific hour at this one specific pool in St. Paul; such a relevant and meaningful conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a gender crusader?  I won't step in a gym that's not coed.
> 
> You fail to see the bigger picture.  Inflexible religious people imposing their culture and superstitions in basically a secular all inclusive diverse institution such as the Y, that get's paid for this inclusivity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, if the government was forcing the YMCA to do a no-male swim time to cater to Muslims, I'd be right with you.
> 
> But the fact this is a decision by a private company, internally.
> 
> WHAT IF these Muslim classes are bringing in a bit of extra money to the Y they would not otherwise earn? WHAT IF these classes build a strong rapport in the community attracting more costumers? You're whining about a private business making a choice (legally) to try a tactic that makes them more money.
> 
> 
> Are you anti-freedom for American businesses? Would you rather the government make all of the Y's decisions for them? WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
Click to expand...

Again, if the government was forcing the YMCA to do a no-male swim time to cater to Muslims, I'd be right with you. *The government will most likely step in if there is a lawsuit filed, and that lawsuit will go as all other lawsuits having to do with Muslims and pools have gone in the US and all over Europe.  It will enforce coed swimming.*

But the fact this is a decision by a private company, internally means you have no argument. Neither of us has an argument or can do anything about it.  Y's make independent decisions.  If people want to challenge this wrong decision, then something will be done about it.  

WHAT IF these Muslim classes are bringing in a bit of extra money to the Y they would not otherwise earn? WHAT IF these classes build a strong rapport in the community attracting more costumers? It's not about the money.  But if the Y is desperate for more income, then perhaps there are other ways that getting bribed into violating their contract with male members? 

Are you faulting them for making a private business decision Roudy that makes money? Really? *Making money at the expense of other members rights is a violation of the Y's Christian based values.*

Are you anti-freedom for American businesses? Would you rather the government make all of the Y's decisions for them? WHAT IS YOUR POINT? *I think the Y's are doing a great job serving their communities needs and I have had the pleasure of using them for various personal purposes in my distant past.  Better have kids swimming or playing Basketball or Baseball than out in the streets making trouble.  But this Y's management fucked up and someone needs to get fired here.*


----------



## Roudy

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> It most certainly does matter. It says access 7 days a week, and that's what the Y provides; access 7 days a week. Having the pool available 95% of the time one of those seven days and 100% the rest counts as "7 day access".
> 
> 
> 
> Not if there's a problem with the pool.  But if one group of members have access and males or females don't, I sure as hell would have a problem with it.  This would be just as disgusting if the Y suddenly decided to have "men only swimming" due to religious sensitivities.  And they of all groups have every right to do so, since it's started out as a male only organization.
> 
> Bottom line, when you step into the Y, check your religion and superstitions at the door.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Alright, I see this is going nowhere Roudy.
> 
> You can whine all you want. You can whine for the next 10 weeks, in fact. But at the end of the day these facts remain:
> 
> 1.) You don't own the YMCA and can't decide what to do with the property they own
> 2.) You aren't a member at St. Pauls and therefore have no reason to complain about things that pertain to their members only (if members want to complain, they will)
> 3.) Whining isn't going to change anything except for lowering people's opinion of you.
> 
> I bid you farewell.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's going nowhere.  You believe it's not a big deal and I think it is.  

Who's whining?  You guys are whining everytime one of us points out that what the Y did is not right and against their obligations.


----------



## Roudy

High_Gravity said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> A- show me another instance that they Y started segregating sexes other than when Muslims showed up
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good god damn point Roudy, if this was all about modesty the pools would have been segregated decades ago.
Click to expand...

They keep trying to squirm out of it by saying lame things like "Oh so it's only an hour" or "it doesn't say unrestricted".  Ha ha ha.


----------



## Coyote

Roudy said:


> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course it does.  Because from that very website you access the online application and pay your deposit and membership fees as well.  Check it out.  You cannot advertise one thing and provide another.  If you're providing access, 7 days a week, you can't restrict it unless said restrictions are listed BEFORE you  pay and finalize the online contract.
> 
> Contracts can be verbal and online.  The Y would have ZERO chance to get away with this in a court of law.  The judge or jury would laugh off the excuses you guys are making.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THEY ARE PROVIDING access 7 days a week. If you recall the class is only one hour, once a week. That leaves about 10 hours of additional open pool time on the day of the class for general members.
> 
> Members have access to the pool 7 days a week; I don't understand what's been violated.
> 
> Again, so you're admitting this is a non-muslim issue but rather an issue pertaining to the legality of a pool owner having the ability to set rules for the pool he/she owns, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who cares!  One hour, five minutes, or two days!  You cannot close off a gym with male members, to women only.  And especially one that was male and Christian based from it's inception.
> 
> Again, ever heard of the Y*W*CA?
> 
> Close that off to Muslim women jumping in the pool with their Burkas as much as you want.
Click to expand...


There's also men only swim sessions.

They don't swim in Burkas.

YMCA is open to all and has been for decades.  Really, are you that stupid?  NK is known as the Democratic People's Republic of Korea but you and I know it's neither a republic nor democratic.


----------



## Coyote

> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words they have access - but nowhere does it say unrestricted. *if it was restricted, then it would say so.  As it did with age restrictions.  Duh!*
> 
> You already pointed out that it is restricted because the parts may be closed anyway for maintenance/cleaning etc. and it can be closed for classes. Thus they tell you to check the schedule.   *and nowhere on any schedule ever is there a "women's only class"...Until Muslims showed up.*
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> I've not heard your usage of "Fitness Levels" before as portions of the gym. Do you have somewhere that states that because when I look for YMCA Fitness levels it seems to refer to levels of physical difficulty. *Yeah?  However you define fitness levels it still clearly says that ages 15+ can attend all fitness levels.  That means ALL CAN ATTEND  and there is GENDER NO SEGREGATION...*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roudy, if "Fitness Levels" refer to levels of fitness "ability" - then all that says is age is no restriction to class ability levels. That's certainly how I read it.  It does not say there is unrestricted access to all areas during operational hours.  You're basically throwing mud to see if anything sticks.
> 
> If "Fitness Level" refers to specific areas rather than individual ability - please provide that info because I can't find it.
> 
> Who cares' WHEN they started a women's only class or because it was because "Muslims" showed up - the point is, as a private entity it's within their rights and it is enjoyed by all women, not just Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The "Fitness Levels" was derived from this page:
> 
> Water Exercise | YMCA Twin Cities
> 
> *WATER EXERCISE*
> FIND A CLASS
> FREE FOR MEMBERS
> Drop-in Classes
> No registration required
> All fitness levels
> Ages 10-14 may attend with parent/guardian.
> Ages 15+ may attend unaccompanied. All fitness levels.
> 
> *So it's referring to SWIMMING FITNESS LEVELS.*
> 
> Then goes on the explain what those classes and "levels" are:
> 
> Active Older Adult Water Exercise
> Designed with the active older adult in mind and combines a light to moderate aerobic workout with exercises in the shallow and/or deep water.
> 
> Aqua Zumba
> Integrates the Zumba formula with traditional aqua fitness disciplines. All fitness levels.
> 
> Arthritis Water Exercise
> An Arthritis Foundation-certified instructor guides you through gentle activities in warm water. Arthritis diagnosis is not required. Swimming skills are not required.
> 
> Arthritis Water Exercise Plus
> Builds on basic moves from Arthritis Water Exercise. Arthritis diagnosis is not required. Swimming skills are not required.
> 
> Deep Water
> A low-intensity water workout focuses on major muscle groups.
> 
> Deep Water Power
> A high-intensity water workout for the entire body with no impact on the lower body.
> 
> Fibromyalgia Interval Training
> Aquatic exercises designed to help you manage the pain, stiffness and fatigue associated with Fibromyalgia.
> 
> H2O Flow
> Aquatic exercise based on elements of Yoga, Tai Chi and Pilates. Suitable for all levels of conditioning.
> 
> Kid/Family Water Exercise
> A variety of interactive activities, skills and drills utilizing equipment will be used for increasing strength, endurance and balance for parent and child.
> 
> Multiple Sclerosis Water Exercise
> An MS Society-certified instructor helps you gain strength and balance, increase circulation and improve range-of-motion. MS diagnosis is not required. Swimming skills are not required.
> 
> Shallow Water
> A low-impact water workout held in shallow water. Swimming skills are not required.
> 
> Shallow Water Power
> A high-intensity, low-impact workout focused on cardiovascular training, muscle toning, flexibility and coordination. Swimming skills are not required.
> 
> Silver Splash
> Utilizes the physical properties of water to enhance agility, range of motion, and cardiovascular conditioning.
> 
> Vortex Water Exercise
> A low-impact workout. Held in heated indoor vortex pool. Shallow Water. Swimming skills are not necessary.
> 
> Vortex Water Power
> Class consists of a series of intense cardio movements. Held in heated indoor vortex pool. Shallow Water. Swimming skills are not necessary.
> 
> Water Boot Camp
> A rugged workout of sports drills, circuits and interval training using the properties of water. Conducted in shallow and deep water.
> 
> Water Tabata
> High intensity interval trainin with a series of four minute exercise sequences.
> 
> Water Vertizontal
> Combines the best of vertical deep water aerobics, cardio core programming and synchronized swimming inspired horizontal work.
> 
> Water Walking
> Basic, low-impact, light-intensity workout using the natural resistance of water. Appropriate for beginners to exercise.
> 
> Water X Power
> A high-intensity workout for strength and endurance. Conducted in both shallow and deep water.
> 
> * Do you see any restrictions or gender based limitations? NO.
> 
> You having nothing. *
Click to expand...


Roudy, what is your point?

The information you provided makes sense.  It also means you were making shit up when you claimed fitness levels referred to different areas like the pool, the gym etc.

What you have is a list of classes offered for _all fitness levels_.

What you don't have is any sort of material you can use to claim unrestricted access to all facilties at all times.  This is a list of classes.

Now from the same link, we have these classes for 55 and older - *a restriction*: Age 55+ | YMCA Twin Cities - also "all fitness levels" meaning unfit fat and flabby to fit and trim.

Here are some more: Parent Child Swim Lessons | YMCA Twin Cities -- restricted by age and family circumstance.

And look what else the Y offers: women's retreats - yup, just women. https://www.ymcatwincities.org/camps/camp_du_nord/groups__retreats/adult_retreats/womens_retreats/   (they also offer just men and just couples)

And a special women's only camping trip: https://www.ymcatwincities.org/camp...roup_experiences/adult_wilderness_adventures/


----------



## Iceman

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy, if "Fitness Levels" refer to levels of fitness "ability" - then all that says is age is no restriction to class ability levels. That's certainly how I read it.  It does not say there is unrestricted access to all areas during operational hours.  You're basically throwing mud to see if anything sticks.
> 
> If "Fitness Level" refers to specific areas rather than individual ability - please provide that info because I can't find it.
> 
> Who cares' WHEN they started a women's only class or because it was because "Muslims" showed up - the point is, as a private entity it's within their rights and it is enjoyed by all women, not just Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> The "Fitness Levels" was derived from this page:
> 
> Water Exercise | YMCA Twin Cities
> 
> *WATER EXERCISE*
> FIND A CLASS
> FREE FOR MEMBERS
> Drop-in Classes
> No registration required
> All fitness levels
> Ages 10-14 may attend with parent/guardian.
> Ages 15+ may attend unaccompanied. All fitness levels.
> 
> *So it's referring to SWIMMING FITNESS LEVELS.*
> 
> Then goes on the explain what those classes and "levels" are:
> 
> Active Older Adult Water Exercise
> Designed with the active older adult in mind and combines a light to moderate aerobic workout with exercises in the shallow and/or deep water.
> 
> Aqua Zumba
> Integrates the Zumba formula with traditional aqua fitness disciplines. All fitness levels.
> 
> Arthritis Water Exercise
> An Arthritis Foundation-certified instructor guides you through gentle activities in warm water. Arthritis diagnosis is not required. Swimming skills are not required.
> 
> Arthritis Water Exercise Plus
> Builds on basic moves from Arthritis Water Exercise. Arthritis diagnosis is not required. Swimming skills are not required.
> 
> Deep Water
> A low-intensity water workout focuses on major muscle groups.
> 
> Deep Water Power
> A high-intensity water workout for the entire body with no impact on the lower body.
> 
> Fibromyalgia Interval Training
> Aquatic exercises designed to help you manage the pain, stiffness and fatigue associated with Fibromyalgia.
> 
> H2O Flow
> Aquatic exercise based on elements of Yoga, Tai Chi and Pilates. Suitable for all levels of conditioning.
> 
> Kid/Family Water Exercise
> A variety of interactive activities, skills and drills utilizing equipment will be used for increasing strength, endurance and balance for parent and child.
> 
> Multiple Sclerosis Water Exercise
> An MS Society-certified instructor helps you gain strength and balance, increase circulation and improve range-of-motion. MS diagnosis is not required. Swimming skills are not required.
> 
> Shallow Water
> A low-impact water workout held in shallow water. Swimming skills are not required.
> 
> Shallow Water Power
> A high-intensity, low-impact workout focused on cardiovascular training, muscle toning, flexibility and coordination. Swimming skills are not required.
> 
> Silver Splash
> Utilizes the physical properties of water to enhance agility, range of motion, and cardiovascular conditioning.
> 
> Vortex Water Exercise
> A low-impact workout. Held in heated indoor vortex pool. Shallow Water. Swimming skills are not necessary.
> 
> Vortex Water Power
> Class consists of a series of intense cardio movements. Held in heated indoor vortex pool. Shallow Water. Swimming skills are not necessary.
> 
> Water Boot Camp
> A rugged workout of sports drills, circuits and interval training using the properties of water. Conducted in shallow and deep water.
> 
> Water Tabata
> High intensity interval trainin with a series of four minute exercise sequences.
> 
> Water Vertizontal
> Combines the best of vertical deep water aerobics, cardio core programming and synchronized swimming inspired horizontal work.
> 
> Water Walking
> Basic, low-impact, light-intensity workout using the natural resistance of water. Appropriate for beginners to exercise.
> 
> Water X Power
> A high-intensity workout for strength and endurance. Conducted in both shallow and deep water.
> 
> * Do you see any restrictions or gender based limitations? NO.
> 
> You having nothing. *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roudy, what is your point?
> 
> The information you provided makes sense.  It also means you were making shit up when you claimed fitness levels referred to different areas like the pool, the gym etc.
> 
> What you have is a list of classes offered for _all fitness levels_.
> 
> What you don't have is any sort of material you can use to claim unrestricted access to all facilties at all times.  This is a list of classes.
> 
> Now from the same link, we have these classes for 55 and older - *a restriction*: Age 55+ | YMCA Twin Cities - also "all fitness levels" meaning unfit fat and flabby to fit and trim.
> 
> Here are some more: Parent Child Swim Lessons | YMCA Twin Cities -- restricted by age and family circumstance.
> 
> And look what else the Y offers: women's retreats - yup, just women. https://www.ymcatwincities.org/camps/camp_du_nord/groups__retreats/adult_retreats/womens_retreats/   (they also offer just men and just couples)
> 
> And a special women's only camping trip: https://www.ymcatwincities.org/camp...roup_experiences/adult_wilderness_adventures/
Click to expand...


It's creeping Shariah!


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## Coyote

KevinWestern said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KevinWestern said:
> 
> 
> 
> It most certainly does matter. It says access 7 days a week, and that's what the Y provides; access 7 days a week. Having the pool available 95% of the time one of those seven days and 100% the rest counts as "7 day access".
> 
> 
> 
> Not if there's a problem with the pool.  But if one group of members have access and males or females don't, I sure as hell would have a problem with it.  This would be just as disgusting if the Y suddenly decided to have "men only swimming" due to religious sensitivities.  And they of all groups have every right to do so, since it's started out as a male only organization.
> 
> Bottom line, when you step into the Y, check your religion and superstitions at the door.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Alright, I see this is going nowhere Roudy.
> 
> You can whine all you want. You can whine for the next 10 weeks, in fact. But at the end of the day these facts remain:
> 
> 1.) You don't own the YMCA and can't decide what to do with the property they own
> 2.) You aren't a member at St. Pauls and therefore have no reason to complain about things that pertain to their members only (if members want to complain, they will)
> 3.) Whining isn't going to change anything except for lowering people's opinion of you.
> 
> I bid you farewell.
Click to expand...


Well said


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## Coyote

Roudy said:


> But this Y's management fucked up and someone needs to get fired here.[/B][/COLOR]



Have any of their members actually complained?


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## Roudy

The information you provided makes sense. It also means you were making shit up when you claimed fitness levels referred to different areas like the pool, the gym etc. Blah blah blah.  *Fitness levels at the pool.  The pool is a fitness area which works out various fitness levels.  Big deal.  Irrelevant.*

What you have is a list of classes offered for all fitness levels. *OMG!  More of nothing.*

What you don't have is any sort of material you can use to claim unrestricted access to all facilties at all times. This is a list of classes.  *Sure what does the word access mean to you? *

Now from the same link, we have these classes for 55 and older - a restriction: Age 55+ | YMCA Twin Cities - also "all fitness levels" meaning unfit fat and flabby to fit and trim.  *Yeah so? list of classes big fucken deal.*

Here are some more: Parent Child Swim Lessons | YMCA Twin Cities -- restricted by age and family circumstance. * So?* 

And look what else the Y offers: women's retreats - yup, just women. https://www.ymcatwincities.org/camps...mens_retreats/ (they also offer just men and just couples)  *Camping retreat outside the facility?  You are pathetic.*

And a special women's only camping trip: https://www.ymcatwincities.org/camps...ss_adventures/ *More of the same garbage.  

This is the best you got...NOTHING. *


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## Roudy

Coyote said:


> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But this Y's management fucked up and someone needs to get fired here.[/B][/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have any of their members actually complained?
Click to expand...

Other Y's and similar facilities have.


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## Coyote

Roudy said:


> Coyote said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roudy said:
> 
> 
> 
> But this Y's management fucked up and someone needs to get fired here.[/B][/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have any of their members actually complained?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Other Y's and similar facilities have.
Click to expand...


So this one has not then?


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## Coyote

Roudy said:


> The information you provided makes sense. It also means you were making shit up when you claimed fitness levels referred to different areas like the pool, the gym etc. Blah blah blah.  *Fitness levels at the pool.  The pool is a fitness area which works out various fitness levels.  Big deal.  Irrelevant.*
> 
> What you have is a list of classes offered for all fitness levels. *OMG!  More of nothing.*
> 
> What you don't have is any sort of material you can use to claim unrestricted access to all facilties at all times. This is a list of classes.  *Sure what does the word access mean to you? *
> 
> Now from the same link, we have these classes for 55 and older - a restriction: Age 55+ | YMCA Twin Cities - also "all fitness levels" meaning unfit fat and flabby to fit and trim.  *Yeah so? list of classes big fucken deal.*
> 
> Here are some more: Parent Child Swim Lessons | YMCA Twin Cities -- restricted by age and family circumstance. * So?*
> 
> And look what else the Y offers: women's retreats - yup, just women. https://www.ymcatwincities.org/camps...mens_retreats/ (they also offer just men and just couples)  *Camping retreat outside the facility?  You are pathetic.*
> 
> And a special women's only camping trip: https://www.ymcatwincities.org/camps...ss_adventures/ *More of the same garbage.
> 
> This is the best you got...NOTHING. *



So you really can't counter a thing can you?  

We're going round and round.  In the end, there is only this:
- *they're a private organization* - they can do what they want within the law and they wouldn't be doing this if there wasn't good support for it
- *there is nothing* in the membership benefits that explicitely gives members unlimited access at all hours.
- it has absolutely *no effect on you* and it has lots of positive effects on the women and girls who participate

Sez lots about you ... and lots about them...


and in the end, you have nothing 

CIAO


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## paulitician

I think most Americans have compassion and are willing to respect this girl's religious sensibilities. If this policy is supported by the YMCA's Membership, than so be it. The Y is a private entity. If their Members don't want it, they'll end the policy. 

My only problem with this discussion is the Communists/Progressives here feigning outrage over it. I'm sure if this girl were a Christian making this request, they would be taking the exact opposite position. The Left has a strange obsession with hating Christians. We all know that. So until i observe  a different behavior, i'm gonna have to call Bullshit on this thread. It reeks of dishonesty and hypocrisy. I'm guessing this thread is really about an irrational hate for Fox News.


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