# Vietnam prostitutes kept in dog cages



## NOBama

> HO CHI MINH CITY, Vietnam, Dec. 9 (UPI) -- Some 130 women were held prisoner, some in dog cages, at a Ho Chi Minh City brothel, forced to work as prostitutes 18 hours per day, local media reports say.
> 
> 
> The Thanh Nien newspaper said police found the women after launching a raid triggered by letters from the captive women, but the brothel owner got away, The Daily Telegraph (Britain) reported Tuesday.
> 
> The Vietnamese newspaper said the women, many of whom were from poor rural families, were kept as slaves in debt bondage and if they refused to perform sexual acts on customers they were severely punished by the owner, known as Tri, and his men.


 
More

Now this is sick. It's hard to believe this stuff still happens although apparently - it does.


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## PoliticalChic

How do these men go home and look at themselves in the mirror after what they have done?  Is it the culture that allows for this type of mistreatment of women?  Let's send over Lorraine Bobbit to take care of business.


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## alan1

NOBama said:


> More
> 
> Now this is sick. It's hard to believe this stuff still happens although apparently - it does.


Does it happen in democracies?


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## NOBama

BatBoy said:


> Does it happen in democracies?


 
Does it matter?


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## Mad Scientist

Man I can't believe the cultural bias and hate speech going on in here! What makes you so great that you can judge another country's societal norms? Because you're an American? Vietnam was just fine until AmeriKKKa went over there and commited war crimes. They're obviously still struggling with it.
Well let me tell you what. This country was founded on slavery and genocide so the next time you feel like criticizing an ancient societies norms you just think of all the bias and hate that permeates this country.

/Liberal mode off.


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## NOBama

Mad Scientist said:


> Man I can't believe the cultural bias and hate speech going on in here! What makes you so great that you can judge another country's societal norms? Because you're an American? Vietnam was just fine until AmeriKKKa went over there and commited war crimes. They're obviously still struggling with it.
> Well let me tell you what. This country was founded on slavery and genocide so the next time you feel like criticizing an ancient societies norms you just think of all the bias and hate that permeates this country.
> 
> /Liberal mode off.


 
What kind of drugs are you on?


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## editec

Yes, I much prefer the method of enslavement of our prositutes by DRUGS that we typically use here in the good old USA.

It's got captialistic advantages which makes their slavery their own fault, so we can not only exploit them but feel superior to them at the same time.

Plus they make a whole 'nother industry (drugs) a more profitable for the mafia and their cops chums, too.

But in Veit Nam's defence, they're new to capitalism, so they haven't refined their prostitution industry  like we have.


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## NOBama

editec said:


> Yes, I much prefer the method of enslavement of our prositutes by DRUGS that we typically use here in the good old USA.
> 
> It's got captialistic advantages which makes their slavery their own fault, so we can not only exploit them but feel superior to them at the same time.
> 
> Plus they make a whole 'nother industry (drugs) a more profitable for the mafia and their cops chums, too.
> 
> But in Veit Nam's defence, they're new to capitalism, so they haven't refined their prostitution industry like we have.


 
Drinking rather early today, eh? It must be the cold...


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## PoliticalChic

Mad Scientist said:


> Man I can't believe the cultural bias and hate speech going on in here! What makes you so great that you can judge another country's societal norms? Because you're an American? Vietnam was just fine until AmeriKKKa went over there and commited war crimes. They're obviously still struggling with it.
> Well let me tell you what. This country was founded on slavery and genocide so the next time you feel like criticizing an ancient societies norms you just think of all the bias and hate that permeates this country.
> 
> /Liberal mode off.



I thought you were pretty normal until I read this.  I hate it when people use the argument that "we shouldn't judge."  If we didn't judge and get involved in WWII, all the jews would have ended up in ovens.  

How dare you keep trumpeting about the sins about America!  Look around, do we have slavery and genocide in our country?


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## Agnapostate

Any variety of wage slavery is unjust, but there's obviously quite different degrees of wage slavery. This obviously isn't equivalent to many forms of prostitution in the U.S., whatever some (i.e. Noam Chomsky) might claim.


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## WillowTree

Mad Scientist said:


> Man I can't believe the cultural bias and hate speech going on in here! What makes you so great that you can judge another country's societal norms? Because you're an American? Vietnam was just fine until AmeriKKKa went over there and commited war crimes. They're obviously still struggling with it.
> Well let me tell you what. This country was founded on slavery and genocide so the next time you feel like criticizing an ancient societies norms you just think of all the bias and hate that permeates this country.
> 
> /Liberal mode off.






I think it flew over a few heads!  Yep! Now take yer tongue outta yer cheek!


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## Agnapostate

Yeah...seriously. That flew over a few heads.


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## editec

Agnapostate said:


> Any variety of wage slavery is unjust, but there's obviously quite different degrees of wage slavery. This obviously isn't equivalent to many forms of prostitution in the U.S., whatever some (i.e. Noam Chomsky) might claim.


 
I'm wasn't aware that Noam has ventured into a comparative wage study of national styles of prostitution.

Most US prostitutes make far more than most working families...they just don't tend to invest it very wisely.

Not unless you consider personal drug use, and paying off pimps and cops a good investment.


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## NOBama

WillowTree said:


> I think it flew over a few heads! Yep! Now take yer tongue outta yer cheek!


 
I hope so because I've always thought M_S was one of the people who post here that has his shit together.


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## Agnapostate

editec said:


> I'm wasn't aware that Noam has ventured into a comparative wage study of national styles of prostitution.
> 
> Most US prostitutes make far more than most working families...they just don't tend to invest it very wisely.
> 
> Not unless you consider personal drug use, and paying off pimps and cops a good investment.



He would undoubtedly view prostitution as a denigration and enslavement of women, just as he views pornography the same way. He even compared female actresses' consent to appear in pornography to Chinese workers' "consent" to work in a factory that burns down. To me, this is an utterly illegitimate deontological view that he ought to know better than to believe. The dead Chinese factory workers have clearly suffered a far more intense infliction than whatever suffering he imagines is inflicted on American porn stars, and just as he doesn't maintain an absolutist stance against state functions in all circumstances, neither should he maintain an absolutist stance that groups all forms of wage labor together.  

American prostitutes in poor areas do not have it easy by any means. But their suffering, (and even more so that of high-paid escorts), is not comparable to that of women locked in dog cages.


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## Ravi

Agnapostate said:


> He would undoubtedly view prostitution as a denigration and enslavement of women, just as he views pornography the same way. He even compared female actresses' consent to appear in pornography to Chinese workers' "consent" to work in a factory that burns down. To me, this is an utterly illegitimate deontological view that he ought to know better than to believe. The dead Chinese factory workers have clearly suffered a far more intense infliction than whatever suffering he imagines is inflicted on American porn stars, and just as he doesn't maintain an absolutist stance against state functions in all circumstances, neither should he maintain an absolutist stance that groups all forms of wage labor together.
> 
> American prostitutes in poor areas do not have it easy by any means. But their suffering, (and even more so that of high-paid escorts), is not comparable to that of women locked in dog cages.


Unless they are forced into prostitution in a similar manner, like the child sex slaves that are smuggled in from other countries.


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## Agnapostate

Ravi said:


> Unless they are forced into prostitution in a similar manner, like the child sex slaves that are smuggled in from other countries.



Sex slaves of any variety actually don't constitute such a significant proportion of slaves worldwide that we've been led to believe by the mass media, but that's not to say that that isn't a problem. It certainly _is_ a problem, but I'm not prepared to endorse the view that sex slavery is necessarily worse than other forms of slavery, such as forced conscription into an army under the threat of death. In times of historical antiquity in this very country, it was undoubtedly far more grueling and caused a good deal more suffering to be outside performing backbreaking labor in the plantation fields than to be inside the big house servicing the master. 

The same is true for child sex slavery and forced child marriage. There is first the fact that an international definition of "children" may range anywhere from birth to 18, and when it comes to those ages 12-18, I would question whether the "child" label was accurate. My second contention with that issue is that primary focus seems to always be on the fact that the slaves in question are underage, rather than the fact that _they are slaves_. Consider the issue of the fundamentalist Mormon compound that was raided by Texas authorities a while back. Rather than focus on the fact that the marriages there _were arranged against the will of the women of all ages_, the focus was primarily on the fact that there were marriages of teenagers and older men.


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## WillowTree

NOBama said:


> I hope so because I've always thought M_S was one of the people who post here that has his shit together.





didn't you see at the end of his post "liberal mode off"? I think he was mocking the libs..


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## Agnapostate

Yeah, that was quite clearly sarcastic.


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## alan1

NOBama said:


> Does it matter?


Just pointing out that democracies don't cage their prostitutes.
Well, at least in Nevada they don't.
Although, I heard that for the right price you can get a caged prostitute in Nevada.


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## editec

Agnapostate said:


> He would undoubtedly view prostitution as a denigration and enslavement of women, just as he views pornography the same way. He even compared female actresses' consent to appear in pornography to Chinese workers' "consent" to work in a factory that burns down. To me, this is an utterly illegitimate deontological view that he ought to know better than to believe. The dead Chinese factory workers have clearly suffered a far more intense infliction than whatever suffering he imagines is inflicted on American porn stars, and just as he doesn't maintain an absolutist stance against state functions in all circumstances, neither should he maintain an absolutist stance that groups all forms of wage labor together.
> 
> American prostitutes in poor areas do not have it easy by any means. But their suffering, (and even more so that of high-paid escorts), is not comparable to that of women locked in dog cages.


 
I met Noam once.

He didn't strike me as a libertine to be frank. IN fact he struck me as a pretty cold fish emotionally.

So I am not surprised that he'd take a stalinist left view of things sexual.

Now you seem to have missed the mirth I was trying to inject into this somewhat depressing _"let's all agree to get outraged_" thread.

I'm likely to mock such attempts to forge board unity by posting something that is drop dead obviously outrageous.

Not because I am not outraged, but because I object to people trying to manipulate us into agreeing about something that is so drop dead obviously evil.

I feel the same way about group hugs and drumming when the liberal do it, know what I mean?

I mean who here is likely to come out and say abducting girls and forcing them into slave prostitution is a good thing?

Nobody, right?

So why even bring these outrageous and depressing things to our attention?


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## strollingbones

NOBama said:


> More
> 
> Now this is sick. It's hard to believe this stuff still happens although apparently - it does.



honey this shit happens in the good old us of a...too


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## Agnapostate

editec said:


> I met Noam once.
> 
> He didn't strike me as a libertine to be frank. IN fact he struck me as a pretty cold fish emotionally.
> 
> So I am not surprised that he'd take a stalinist left view of things sexual.
> 
> Now you seem to have missed the mirth I was trying to inject into this somewhat depressing _"let's all agree to get outraged_" thread.
> 
> I'm likely to mock such attempts to forge board unity by posting something that is drop dead obviously outrageous.
> 
> Not because I am not outraged, but because I object to people trying to manipulate us into agreeing about something that is so drop dead obviously evil.
> 
> I feel the same way about group hugs and drumming when the liberal do it, know what I mean?
> 
> I mean who here is likely to come out and say abducting girls and forcing them into slave prostitution is a good thing?
> 
> Nobody, right?
> 
> So why even bring these outrageous and depressing things to our attention?



That's the strange thing about many anarchists. They're not the libertines that they're stereotyped as when it comes to many sexual matters. Many are downright hostile to pornography and prostitution, having adopted the view that both are enslavement of women. I'm in the midst of writing a libertarian socialist essay that takes the opposite view. I'll probably post it here when I'm done.


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## NOBama

Agnapostate said:


> That's the strange thing about many anarchists. They're not the libertines that they're stereotyped as when it comes to many sexual matters. Many are downright hostile to pornography and prostitution, having adopted the view that both are enslavement of women. I'm in the midst of writing a libertarian socialist essay that takes the opposite view. I'll probably post it here when I'm done.


 
Hey buddy, blow your libertarian socialist psycho babble bullshit out your ass.


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## Agnapostate

NOBama said:


> Hey buddy, blow your psycho babble bullshit out you're ass.


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## NOBama

Agnapostate said:


>


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## Agnapostate

NOBama said:


>


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## NOBama

Agnapostate said:


>


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## Agnapostate

NOBama said:


>



Oh, please. Julian the Apostate would have whupped your ass. He kicked all the Christians' asses out of the empire. Paganism FTW!


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## FistyTheBadger

What were their living conditions before the dog cages?


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## PoliticalChic

NOBama said:


>



NOBama, I thought you were American, nor Arab.  LOL!  That was clever.


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## Missourian

I'm in Houston today. There are signs hanging in the travel plaza describing the signs of human trafficking.


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## editec

Agnapostate said:


> That's the strange thing about many anarchists. They're not the libertines that they're stereotyped as when it comes to many sexual matters. Many are downright hostile to pornography and prostitution, having adopted the view that both are enslavement of women. I'm in the midst of writing a libertarian socialist essay that takes the opposite view. I'll probably post it here when I'm done.


 
I don't actually think it's so strange.

There is no group more opposed to human mirth and human sexuality than radical leftists.

Seriously, I have met so many truly intelligent lefties who has like ZERO sense of humor, and all the interpersonal empathy of iguanas.

They seem to know everything about humankind except what its like to be human.

And don't even get me going on what cold fish most commies are.

I'd rather live in the Puritans of 16th century Salem than with any group of idealistic communists.

Why this is I cannot say.

But if one is looking for a good time, I have to tell you the Republicans who hate my politics are far better people to party with.

They are often (quite often) far better people to know personally, too.

They understand human fraility better than our liberal chums in most cases.


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