# Cardinal Pell



## Tommy Tainant

Cardinal Pell guilty of child sexual abuse

*Cardinal George Pell has been found guilty in Australia of sexual offences against children, making him the highest-ranking Catholic figure to receive such a conviction.

Pell abused two choir boys in Melbourne's cathedral in 1996, a jury found. He had pleaded not guilty.

As Vatican treasurer, the 77-year-old Australian was widely seen as the Church's third most powerful official.

Pell, due to face sentencing hearings from Wednesday, has lodged an appeal.*

The third ranking Catholic, the Popes finance chief, guilty of fucking chldren in the cathedral.

When the abuse goes to the top it makes it easier to understand why little has been done on this issue. Pell was criticised for his reaction to abuse scandals and now it all makes sense.


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## Blues Man

Any guy who says he's willing to give up sex shouldn't be trusted


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## Tommy Tainant

Why is the church so protective of paedos ?


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## Blues Man

Tommy Tainant said:


> Why is the church so protective of paedos ?


Because deviants are where they get most of their priests


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## fncceo

Blues Man said:


> Any guy who says he's willing to give up sex shouldn't be trusted



You can't trust _any _married man?

That seems kind of harsh.


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## zaangalewa

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cardinal Pell guilty of child sexual abuse
> 
> *Cardinal George Pell has been found guilty in Australia of sexual offences against children, making him the highest-ranking Catholic figure to receive such a conviction.
> 
> Pell abused two choir boys in Melbourne's cathedral in 1996, a jury found. He had pleaded not guilty.
> 
> As Vatican treasurer, the 77-year-old Australian was widely seen as the Church's third most powerful official.
> 
> Pell, due to face sentencing hearings from Wednesday, has lodged an appeal.*
> 
> The third ranking Catholic, the Popes finance chief, guilty of fucking chldren in the cathedral.



Guilty or not knows no one. A jury decided 2:1 that he had to go in prison. And to protect him the Australians decided to torture him with solitary confinement.

The reason why he is in prison is it that he is not trustworthy in the eyes of the Australian judges - but the man, who accused him, is trustworthy in their eyes. Why they see it in this way, this I don't know. In case of one person's word against another person's word it's normally impossible to find out who's right or wrong after 25 years, because every memorizing changes the memory too. Human beings don't remember like books or machines - we bring our memories always in a senseful psychological balance, which let us survive or correspond with our personal logic of consistency. This process is unconscious. So when the judges say this only witness gives the feeling he says the truth, then this what he says is able not to be true too. This what he remembers, is not necessessarily this what really had happened. It is this what his psychological structure made in about 25 years out of something what had happened (or not) - or what was suggerated in him in a later time from others.



> When the abuse goes to the top it makes it easier to understand why little has been done on this issue.



?



> Pell was criticised for his reaction to abuse scandals and now it all makes sense.



?

Whatever. Solitary confinement is torture. The Australian penal system has to stop this torture.


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## CrusaderFrank

Tommy Tainant said:


> Why is the church so protective of paedos ?


They're a lot like the democrat Party that way


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## zaangalewa

Blues Man said:


> Any guy who says he's willing to give up sex shouldn't be trusted



A nice racist statement against all Catholics and Buddhists.


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## Tommy Tainant

zaangalewa said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cardinal Pell guilty of child sexual abuse
> 
> *Cardinal George Pell has been found guilty in Australia of sexual offences against children, making him the highest-ranking Catholic figure to receive such a conviction.
> 
> Pell abused two choir boys in Melbourne's cathedral in 1996, a jury found. He had pleaded not guilty.
> 
> As Vatican treasurer, the 77-year-old Australian was widely seen as the Church's third most powerful official.
> 
> Pell, due to face sentencing hearings from Wednesday, has lodged an appeal.*
> 
> The third ranking Catholic, the Popes finance chief, guilty of fucking chldren in the cathedral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guilty or not knows no one. A jury decided 2:1 that he had to go in prison. And to protect him the Australians decided to torture him with solitary confinement.
> 
> The reason why he is in prison is it that he is not trustworthy in the eyes of the Australian judges - but the man, who accused him, is trustworthy in their eyes. Why they see it in this way, this I don't know. In case of one person's word against another person's word it's normally impossible to find out who's right or wrong after 25 years, because every memorizing changes the memory too. Human beings don't remember like books or machines - we bring our memories always in a senseful psychological balance, which let us survive or correspond with our personal logic of consistency. This process is unconscious. So when the judges say this only witness gives the feeling he says the truth, then this what he says is able not to be true too. This what he remembers, is not necessessarily this what really had happened. It is this what his psychological structure made in about 25 years out of something what had happened (or not) - or what was suggerated in him in a later time from others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the abuse goes to the top it makes it easier to understand why little has been done on this issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pell was criticised for his reaction to abuse scandals and now it all makes sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Whatever. Solitary confinement is torture. The Australian penal system has to stop this torture.
Click to expand...

There was more than one victim and I believe that an appeal court has just upheld the original verdict.


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## Blues Man

zaangalewa said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any guy who says he's willing to give up sex shouldn't be trusted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A nice racist statement against all Catholics and Buddhists.
Click to expand...


You do understand that Catholic and Buddhist are not races don't you?


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## zaangalewa

Tommy Tainant said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cardinal Pell guilty of child sexual abuse
> 
> *Cardinal George Pell has been found guilty in Australia of sexual offences against children, making him the highest-ranking Catholic figure to receive such a conviction.
> 
> Pell abused two choir boys in Melbourne's cathedral in 1996, a jury found. He had pleaded not guilty.
> 
> As Vatican treasurer, the 77-year-old Australian was widely seen as the Church's third most powerful official.
> 
> Pell, due to face sentencing hearings from Wednesday, has lodged an appeal.*
> 
> The third ranking Catholic, the Popes finance chief, guilty of fucking chldren in the cathedral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guilty or not knows no one. A jury decided 2:1 that he had to go in prison. And to protect him the Australians decided to torture him with solitary confinement.
> 
> The reason why he is in prison is it that he is not trustworthy in the eyes of the Australian judges - but the man, who accused him, is trustworthy in their eyes. Why they see it in this way, this I don't know. In case of one person's word against another person's word it's normally impossible to find out who's right or wrong after 25 years, because every memorizing changes the memory too. Human beings don't remember like books or machines - we bring our memories always in a senseful psychological balance, which let us survive or correspond with our personal logic of consistency. This process is unconscious. So when the judges say this only witness gives the feeling he says the truth, then this what he says is able not to be true too. This what he remembers, is not necessessarily this what really had happened. It is this what his psychological structure made in about 25 years out of something what had happened (or not) - or what was suggerated in him in a later time from others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the abuse goes to the top it makes it easier to understand why little has been done on this issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pell was criticised for his reaction to abuse scandals and now it all makes sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Whatever. Solitary confinement is torture. The Australian penal system has to stop this torture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was more than one victim
Click to expand...


No. One of the two boys is dead. Only the other one told this story. The whole story is from my personal point of view not very plausible. Sounds extremely absurde.



> and I believe that an appeal court has just upheld the original verdict.



Aha. You seem to believe in the moral of human beings and the justice of human institutions. But I believe only in god and in his truth - and nothing else. We will see. But Australia has to stop the torture to keep Cardinal Pell in solitary confinement. And it's more than laughable when the Australian officials see in hand written message from Cardinal Pell a violation of the conditions of detention, where he wrote something like "I am innocent" with a pencil and had reffered to the life of Jesus. I don't know what's going on in Australia - but the whole story is very strange. He's an old man. So "use it or lose it" is the main potential for his health. He needs physical activity. He needs intellectual challenges. He needs communication with other people. He gets "justice" - what's often only another word for hate on no reason to hate.


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## zaangalewa

Blues Man said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any guy who says he's willing to give up sex shouldn't be trusted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A nice racist statement against all Catholics and Buddhists.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do understand that Catholic and Buddhist are not races don't you?
Click to expand...


You don't understand what racism is. It exist nothing what we could call "human races" - there's only one human race.

"Sex" is today an ideological factor in the western world. I would say not everyone has to follow the rules of the strange behavior pubescent city dwellers  in times of pairing season. For some people sex is the center of their life - for others not.


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## Blues Man

zaangalewa said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any guy who says he's willing to give up sex shouldn't be trusted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A nice racist statement against all Catholics and Buddhists.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do understand that Catholic and Buddhist are not races don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't understand what racism is. It exist nothing what we could call "human races" - there's only one human race.
> 
> "Sex" is today an ideological factor in the western world. I would say not everyone has to follow the rules of the strange behavior pubescent city dwellers  in times of pairing season. For some people sex is the center of their life - for others not.
Click to expand...


You don't get it.

A person has no choice what race he is

Anyone who joins a religion has the choice to join

hence the term racism is not valid in this instance

And I never said anything about sex being the "center of my life"  I said I don't trust a guy who says he gave up sex because he is probably lying


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## zaangalewa

Blues Man said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any guy who says he's willing to give up sex shouldn't be trusted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A nice racist statement against all Catholics and Buddhists.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do understand that Catholic and Buddhist are not races don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't understand what racism is. It exist nothing what we could call "human races" - there's only one human race.
> 
> "Sex" is today an ideological factor in the western world. I would say not everyone has to follow the rules of the strange behavior pubescent city dwellers  in times of pairing season. For some people sex is the center of their life - for others not.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get it.
> 
> A person has no choice what race he is
Click to expand...


The word "race" is an empty phrase. Best way to see this is for example when a typical man from Japan and a typical "white" man from the USA have a best compatibility in histology for organ donation. Every racist is using such an organ because he likes to survive  - but only in case of a brain transplantation he will change his mind.



> Anyone who joins a religion has the choice to join



In this case everyone would be a Catholic or a Buddhist, after they had studied both religions for 30 years or longer.



> hence the term racism is not valid in this instance



Lots of Catholics give up sex, lots of Buddhists give up sex. The reasons are different teachings of both religions. So what you said is equivalent as to say no one should trust in Catholics or Buddhists. The reason you say so is to eliminate [trust in] all Catholics and all Buddhists.



> And I never said anything about sex being the "center of my life"  I said I don't trust a guy who says he gave up sex because he is probably lying



Keeps the question why it should be for any Catholic or Buddhist important, whether you trust in him or not. And you said not "I do not trust"  - you said "no one should trust".  So you "discriminate" the world in two parts of people. The peopel who are like you - and the people, who are not like you. People like you are good - others are not trustworthy. Do you trust in yourselve?


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## Blues Man

zaangalewa said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any guy who says he's willing to give up sex shouldn't be trusted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A nice racist statement against all Catholics and Buddhists.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do understand that Catholic and Buddhist are not races don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't understand what racism is. It exist nothing what we could call "human races" - there's only one human race.
> 
> "Sex" is today an ideological factor in the western world. I would say not everyone has to follow the rules of the strange behavior pubescent city dwellers  in times of pairing season. For some people sex is the center of their life - for others not.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get it.
> 
> A person has no choice what race he is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word "race" is an empty phrase. Best way to see this is for example when a typical man from Japan and a typical "white" man from the USA have a best compatibility in histology for organ donation. Every racist is using such an organ because he likes to survive  - but only in case of a brain transplantation he will change his mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who joins a religion has the choice to join
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In this case everyone would be a Catholic or a Buddhist, after they had studied both religions for 30 years or longer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hence the term racism is not valid in this instance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lots of Catholics give up sex, lots of Buddhists give up sex. The reasons are different teachings of both religions. So what you said is equivalent as to say no one should trust in Catholics or Buddhists. The reason you say so is to eliminate [trust in] all Catholics and all Buddhists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I never said anything about sex being the "center of my life"  I said I don't trust a guy who says he gave up sex because he is probably lying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keeps the question why it should be for any Catholic or Buddhist important, whether you trust in him or not. And you said not "I do not trust"  - you said "no one should trust".  So you "discriminate" the world in two parts of people. The peopel who are like you - and the people, who are not like you. People like you are good - others are not trustworthy. Do you trust in yourselve?
Click to expand...


So it's an empty word yet you used as some sort of criticism.

I and I don't care why anyone gives up sex all I said was I don't trust a man who says he gave up sex 

For one he is probably lying and 2 if he really believed in god then god gave sex to men and women as a gift not only to show their love for each other but to also have children

Why would a man who loves god refuse such a gift from his creator?

For all we know god is pissed at these guys for offending him by not accepting his gift


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## Tommy Tainant

zaangalewa said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cardinal Pell guilty of child sexual abuse
> 
> *Cardinal George Pell has been found guilty in Australia of sexual offences against children, making him the highest-ranking Catholic figure to receive such a conviction.
> 
> Pell abused two choir boys in Melbourne's cathedral in 1996, a jury found. He had pleaded not guilty.
> 
> As Vatican treasurer, the 77-year-old Australian was widely seen as the Church's third most powerful official.
> 
> Pell, due to face sentencing hearings from Wednesday, has lodged an appeal.*
> 
> The third ranking Catholic, the Popes finance chief, guilty of fucking chldren in the cathedral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guilty or not knows no one. A jury decided 2:1 that he had to go in prison. And to protect him the Australians decided to torture him with solitary confinement.
> 
> The reason why he is in prison is it that he is not trustworthy in the eyes of the Australian judges - but the man, who accused him, is trustworthy in their eyes. Why they see it in this way, this I don't know. In case of one person's word against another person's word it's normally impossible to find out who's right or wrong after 25 years, because every memorizing changes the memory too. Human beings don't remember like books or machines - we bring our memories always in a senseful psychological balance, which let us survive or correspond with our personal logic of consistency. This process is unconscious. So when the judges say this only witness gives the feeling he says the truth, then this what he says is able not to be true too. This what he remembers, is not necessessarily this what really had happened. It is this what his psychological structure made in about 25 years out of something what had happened (or not) - or what was suggerated in him in a later time from others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the abuse goes to the top it makes it easier to understand why little has been done on this issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pell was criticised for his reaction to abuse scandals and now it all makes sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Whatever. Solitary confinement is torture. The Australian penal system has to stop this torture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was more than one victim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. One of the two boys is dead. Only the other one told this story. The whole story is from my personal point of view not very plausible. Sounds extremely absurde.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I believe that an appeal court has just upheld the original verdict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aha. You seem to believe in the moral of human beings and the justice of human institutions. But I believe only in god and in his truth - and nothing else. We will see. But Australia has to stop the torture to keep Cardinal Pell in solitary confinement. And it's more than laughable when the Australian officials see in hand written message from Cardinal Pell a violation of the conditions of detention, where he wrote something like "I am innocent" with a pencil and had reffered to the life of Jesus. I don't know what's going on in Australia - but the whole story is very strange. He's an old man. So "use it or lose it" is the main potential for his health. He needs physical activity. He needs intellectual challenges. He needs communication with other people. He gets "justice" - what's often only another word for hate on no reason to hate.
Click to expand...

Solitary confinement is used to keep nonces safe from other prisoners. It isnt necessarily a punishment.


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## zaangalewa

Tommy Tainant said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cardinal Pell guilty of child sexual abuse
> 
> *Cardinal George Pell has been found guilty in Australia of sexual offences against children, making him the highest-ranking Catholic figure to receive such a conviction.
> 
> Pell abused two choir boys in Melbourne's cathedral in 1996, a jury found. He had pleaded not guilty.
> 
> As Vatican treasurer, the 77-year-old Australian was widely seen as the Church's third most powerful official.
> 
> Pell, due to face sentencing hearings from Wednesday, has lodged an appeal.*
> 
> The third ranking Catholic, the Popes finance chief, guilty of fucking chldren in the cathedral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guilty or not knows no one. A jury decided 2:1 that he had to go in prison. And to protect him the Australians decided to torture him with solitary confinement.
> 
> The reason why he is in prison is it that he is not trustworthy in the eyes of the Australian judges - but the man, who accused him, is trustworthy in their eyes. Why they see it in this way, this I don't know. In case of one person's word against another person's word it's normally impossible to find out who's right or wrong after 25 years, because every memorizing changes the memory too. Human beings don't remember like books or machines - we bring our memories always in a senseful psychological balance, which let us survive or correspond with our personal logic of consistency. This process is unconscious. So when the judges say this only witness gives the feeling he says the truth, then this what he says is able not to be true too. This what he remembers, is not necessessarily this what really had happened. It is this what his psychological structure made in about 25 years out of something what had happened (or not) - or what was suggerated in him in a later time from others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the abuse goes to the top it makes it easier to understand why little has been done on this issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pell was criticised for his reaction to abuse scandals and now it all makes sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Whatever. Solitary confinement is torture. The Australian penal system has to stop this torture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was more than one victim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. One of the two boys is dead. Only the other one told this story. The whole story is from my personal point of view not very plausible. Sounds extremely absurde.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I believe that an appeal court has just upheld the original verdict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aha. You seem to believe in the moral of human beings and the justice of human institutions. But I believe only in god and in his truth - and nothing else. We will see. But Australia has to stop the torture to keep Cardinal Pell in solitary confinement. And it's more than laughable when the Australian officials see in hand written message from Cardinal Pell a violation of the conditions of detention, where he wrote something like "I am innocent" with a pencil and had reffered to the life of Jesus. I don't know what's going on in Australia - but the whole story is very strange. He's an old man. So "use it or lose it" is the main potential for his health. He needs physical activity. He needs intellectual challenges. He needs communication with other people. He gets "justice" - what's often only another word for hate on no reason to hate.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solitary confinement is used to keep nonces safe from other prisoners. It isnt necessarily a punishment.
Click to expand...


 The typical argument of Nazis, Commies and other tyrants and criminals: _"We torture you, because we love you"._


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## zaangalewa

Blues Man said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> A nice racist statement against all Catholics and Buddhists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that Catholic and Buddhist are not races don't you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't understand what racism is. It exist nothing what we could call "human races" - there's only one human race.
> 
> "Sex" is today an ideological factor in the western world. I would say not everyone has to follow the rules of the strange behavior pubescent city dwellers  in times of pairing season. For some people sex is the center of their life - for others not.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get it.
> 
> A person has no choice what race he is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word "race" is an empty phrase. Best way to see this is for example when a typical man from Japan and a typical "white" man from the USA have a best compatibility in histology for organ donation. Every racist is using such an organ because he likes to survive  - but only in case of a brain transplantation he will change his mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who joins a religion has the choice to join
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In this case everyone would be a Catholic or a Buddhist, after they had studied both religions for 30 years or longer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hence the term racism is not valid in this instance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lots of Catholics give up sex, lots of Buddhists give up sex. The reasons are different teachings of both religions. So what you said is equivalent as to say no one should trust in Catholics or Buddhists. The reason you say so is to eliminate [trust in] all Catholics and all Buddhists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I never said anything about sex being the "center of my life"  I said I don't trust a guy who says he gave up sex because he is probably lying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keeps the question why it should be for any Catholic or Buddhist important, whether you trust in him or not. And you said not "I do not trust"  - you said "no one should trust".  So you "discriminate" the world in two parts of people. The peopel who are like you - and the people, who are not like you. People like you are good - others are not trustworthy. Do you trust in yourselve?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's an empty word yet you used as some sort of criticism.
> 
> I and I don't care why anyone gives up sex all I said was I don't trust a man who says he gave up sex
Click to expand...


You said not "I do not trust" - you said "no one should trust". And you spoke not about your concrete life and your concrete experiences within your personal life with Catholics or Buddhists - you speak about abstracta. And you use this abstracta for discrimination. By the way: Síngles are in statistics much more harmless than married men in context of the crime "child abuse". 



> For one he is probably lying and 2 if he really believed in god then god gave sex to men and women as a gift not only to show their love for each other but to also have children
> 
> Why would a man who loves god refuse such a gift from his creator?
> 
> For all we know god is pissed at these guys for offending him by not accepting his gift



Very short: Who is not able to control the own sexuality is also not able to marry. In all cultures exist rules in context sexuality. One of the most strange cultures of the world in everything what has to do with sexuality is the anglo-american culture. I remember for example that you (=the USA) had arrested once a boy from Switzerland, because he had helped his very little sister to pee. In the eyes of us Germans this boy did something what's totally normal - a very well educated boy - and your nation had arrested him, beause of a totally perverted concept of sexuaity in your laws (and brains). I would say it's not only difficult to speak with anglo-Americans about sexuality - it's impossible.

Sexuality is in general in the Catholic church very important and not negative. Example:

_*2332* Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others. 

*2333* Everyone, man and woman, should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity. Physical, moral, and spiritual difference and complementarity are oriented toward the goods of marriage and the flourishing of family life. The harmony of the couple and of society depends in part on the way in which the complementarity, needs, and mutual support between the sexes are lived out. 

*2334* "In creating men 'male and female,' God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity."119 "Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God."1_

 source: Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment

The reasons for to live without a sexual partner - or without sex within a partnership - but not without love or tenderness (hugs and kisses for example) - are perhaps totally different from this, what you think about.


----------



## Tommy Tainant

zaangalewa said:


> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy Tainant said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cardinal Pell guilty of child sexual abuse
> 
> *Cardinal George Pell has been found guilty in Australia of sexual offences against children, making him the highest-ranking Catholic figure to receive such a conviction.
> 
> Pell abused two choir boys in Melbourne's cathedral in 1996, a jury found. He had pleaded not guilty.
> 
> As Vatican treasurer, the 77-year-old Australian was widely seen as the Church's third most powerful official.
> 
> Pell, due to face sentencing hearings from Wednesday, has lodged an appeal.*
> 
> The third ranking Catholic, the Popes finance chief, guilty of fucking chldren in the cathedral.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guilty or not knows no one. A jury decided 2:1 that he had to go in prison. And to protect him the Australians decided to torture him with solitary confinement.
> 
> The reason why he is in prison is it that he is not trustworthy in the eyes of the Australian judges - but the man, who accused him, is trustworthy in their eyes. Why they see it in this way, this I don't know. In case of one person's word against another person's word it's normally impossible to find out who's right or wrong after 25 years, because every memorizing changes the memory too. Human beings don't remember like books or machines - we bring our memories always in a senseful psychological balance, which let us survive or correspond with our personal logic of consistency. This process is unconscious. So when the judges say this only witness gives the feeling he says the truth, then this what he says is able not to be true too. This what he remembers, is not necessessarily this what really had happened. It is this what his psychological structure made in about 25 years out of something what had happened (or not) - or what was suggerated in him in a later time from others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the abuse goes to the top it makes it easier to understand why little has been done on this issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pell was criticised for his reaction to abuse scandals and now it all makes sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Whatever. Solitary confinement is torture. The Australian penal system has to stop this torture.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was more than one victim
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No. One of the two boys is dead. Only the other one told this story. The whole story is from my personal point of view not very plausible. Sounds extremely absurde.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I believe that an appeal court has just upheld the original verdict.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Aha. You seem to believe in the moral of human beings and the justice of human institutions. But I believe only in god and in his truth - and nothing else. We will see. But Australia has to stop the torture to keep Cardinal Pell in solitary confinement. And it's more than laughable when the Australian officials see in hand written message from Cardinal Pell a violation of the conditions of detention, where he wrote something like "I am innocent" with a pencil and had reffered to the life of Jesus. I don't know what's going on in Australia - but the whole story is very strange. He's an old man. So "use it or lose it" is the main potential for his health. He needs physical activity. He needs intellectual challenges. He needs communication with other people. He gets "justice" - what's often only another word for hate on no reason to hate.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Solitary confinement is used to keep nonces safe from other prisoners. It isnt necessarily a punishment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The typical argument of Nazis, Commies and other tyrants and criminals: _"We torture you, because we love you"._
> 
> 
> Ok, you really schooled me there.
Click to expand...


----------



## Blues Man

zaangalewa said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do understand that Catholic and Buddhist are not races don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't understand what racism is. It exist nothing what we could call "human races" - there's only one human race.
> 
> "Sex" is today an ideological factor in the western world. I would say not everyone has to follow the rules of the strange behavior pubescent city dwellers  in times of pairing season. For some people sex is the center of their life - for others not.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't get it.
> 
> A person has no choice what race he is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word "race" is an empty phrase. Best way to see this is for example when a typical man from Japan and a typical "white" man from the USA have a best compatibility in histology for organ donation. Every racist is using such an organ because he likes to survive  - but only in case of a brain transplantation he will change his mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who joins a religion has the choice to join
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In this case everyone would be a Catholic or a Buddhist, after they had studied both religions for 30 years or longer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hence the term racism is not valid in this instance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lots of Catholics give up sex, lots of Buddhists give up sex. The reasons are different teachings of both religions. So what you said is equivalent as to say no one should trust in Catholics or Buddhists. The reason you say so is to eliminate [trust in] all Catholics and all Buddhists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I never said anything about sex being the "center of my life"  I said I don't trust a guy who says he gave up sex because he is probably lying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keeps the question why it should be for any Catholic or Buddhist important, whether you trust in him or not. And you said not "I do not trust"  - you said "no one should trust".  So you "discriminate" the world in two parts of people. The peopel who are like you - and the people, who are not like you. People like you are good - others are not trustworthy. Do you trust in yourselve?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's an empty word yet you used as some sort of criticism.
> 
> I and I don't care why anyone gives up sex all I said was I don't trust a man who says he gave up sex
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said not "I do not trust" - you said "no one should trust". And you spoke not about your concrete life and your concrete experiences within your personal life with Catholics or Buddhists - you speak about abstracta. And you use this abstracta for discrimination. By the way: Síngles are in statistics much more harmless than married men in context of the crime "child abuse".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one he is probably lying and 2 if he really believed in god then god gave sex to men and women as a gift not only to show their love for each other but to also have children
> 
> Why would a man who loves god refuse such a gift from his creator?
> 
> For all we know god is pissed at these guys for offending him by not accepting his gift
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very short: Who is not able to control the own sexuality is also not able to marry. In all cultures exist rules in context sexuality. One of the most strange cultures of the world in everything what has to do with sexuality is the anglo-american culture. I remember for example that you (=the USA) had arrested once a boy from Switzerland, because he had helped his very little sister to pee. In the eyes of us Germans this boy did something what's totally normal - a very well educated boy - and your nation had arrested him, beause of a totally perverted concept of sexuaity in your laws (and brains). I would say it's not only difficult to speak with anglo-Americans about sexuality - it's impossible.
> 
> Sexuality is in general in the Catholic church very important and not negative. Example:
> 
> _*2332* Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others.
> 
> *2333* Everyone, man and woman, should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity. Physical, moral, and spiritual difference and complementarity are oriented toward the goods of marriage and the flourishing of family life. The harmony of the couple and of society depends in part on the way in which the complementarity, needs, and mutual support between the sexes are lived out.
> 
> *2334* "In creating men 'male and female,' God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity."119 "Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God."1_
> 
> source: Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment
> 
> The reasons for to live without a sexual partner - or without sex within a partnership - but not without love or tenderness (hugs and kisses for example) - are perhaps totally different from this, what you think about.
Click to expand...


Keep trying


----------



## zaangalewa

Blues Man said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't understand what racism is. It exist nothing what we could call "human races" - there's only one human race.
> 
> "Sex" is today an ideological factor in the western world. I would say not everyone has to follow the rules of the strange behavior pubescent city dwellers  in times of pairing season. For some people sex is the center of their life - for others not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get it.
> 
> A person has no choice what race he is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The word "race" is an empty phrase. Best way to see this is for example when a typical man from Japan and a typical "white" man from the USA have a best compatibility in histology for organ donation. Every racist is using such an organ because he likes to survive  - but only in case of a brain transplantation he will change his mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who joins a religion has the choice to join
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In this case everyone would be a Catholic or a Buddhist, after they had studied both religions for 30 years or longer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hence the term racism is not valid in this instance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lots of Catholics give up sex, lots of Buddhists give up sex. The reasons are different teachings of both religions. So what you said is equivalent as to say no one should trust in Catholics or Buddhists. The reason you say so is to eliminate [trust in] all Catholics and all Buddhists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I never said anything about sex being the "center of my life"  I said I don't trust a guy who says he gave up sex because he is probably lying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keeps the question why it should be for any Catholic or Buddhist important, whether you trust in him or not. And you said not "I do not trust"  - you said "no one should trust".  So you "discriminate" the world in two parts of people. The peopel who are like you - and the people, who are not like you. People like you are good - others are not trustworthy. Do you trust in yourselve?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's an empty word yet you used as some sort of criticism.
> 
> I and I don't care why anyone gives up sex all I said was I don't trust a man who says he gave up sex
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said not "I do not trust" - you said "no one should trust". And you spoke not about your concrete life and your concrete experiences within your personal life with Catholics or Buddhists - you speak about abstracta. And you use this abstracta for discrimination. By the way: Síngles are in statistics much more harmless than married men in context of the crime "child abuse".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one he is probably lying and 2 if he really believed in god then god gave sex to men and women as a gift not only to show their love for each other but to also have children
> 
> Why would a man who loves god refuse such a gift from his creator?
> 
> For all we know god is pissed at these guys for offending him by not accepting his gift
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very short: Who is not able to control the own sexuality is also not able to marry. In all cultures exist rules in context sexuality. One of the most strange cultures of the world in everything what has to do with sexuality is the anglo-american culture. I remember for example that you (=the USA) had arrested once a boy from Switzerland, because he had helped his very little sister to pee. In the eyes of us Germans this boy did something what's totally normal - a very well educated boy - and your nation had arrested him, beause of a totally perverted concept of sexuaity in your laws (and brains). I would say it's not only difficult to speak with anglo-Americans about sexuality - it's impossible.
> 
> Sexuality is in general in the Catholic church very important and not negative. Example:
> 
> _*2332* Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others.
> 
> *2333* Everyone, man and woman, should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity. Physical, moral, and spiritual difference and complementarity are oriented toward the goods of marriage and the flourishing of family life. The harmony of the couple and of society depends in part on the way in which the complementarity, needs, and mutual support between the sexes are lived out.
> 
> *2334* "In creating men 'male and female,' God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity."119 "Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God."1_
> 
> source: Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment
> 
> The reasons for to live without a sexual partner - or without sex within a partnership - but not without love or tenderness (hugs and kisses for example) - are perhaps totally different from this, what you think about.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep trying
Click to expand...


?


----------



## Taz

zaangalewa said:


> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't get it.
> 
> A person has no choice what race he is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The word "race" is an empty phrase. Best way to see this is for example when a typical man from Japan and a typical "white" man from the USA have a best compatibility in histology for organ donation. Every racist is using such an organ because he likes to survive  - but only in case of a brain transplantation he will change his mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who joins a religion has the choice to join
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In this case everyone would be a Catholic or a Buddhist, after they had studied both religions for 30 years or longer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hence the term racism is not valid in this instance
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lots of Catholics give up sex, lots of Buddhists give up sex. The reasons are different teachings of both religions. So what you said is equivalent as to say no one should trust in Catholics or Buddhists. The reason you say so is to eliminate [trust in] all Catholics and all Buddhists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I never said anything about sex being the "center of my life"  I said I don't trust a guy who says he gave up sex because he is probably lying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keeps the question why it should be for any Catholic or Buddhist important, whether you trust in him or not. And you said not "I do not trust"  - you said "no one should trust".  So you "discriminate" the world in two parts of people. The peopel who are like you - and the people, who are not like you. People like you are good - others are not trustworthy. Do you trust in yourselve?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it's an empty word yet you used as some sort of criticism.
> 
> I and I don't care why anyone gives up sex all I said was I don't trust a man who says he gave up sex
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said not "I do not trust" - you said "no one should trust". And you spoke not about your concrete life and your concrete experiences within your personal life with Catholics or Buddhists - you speak about abstracta. And you use this abstracta for discrimination. By the way: Síngles are in statistics much more harmless than married men in context of the crime "child abuse".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one he is probably lying and 2 if he really believed in god then god gave sex to men and women as a gift not only to show their love for each other but to also have children
> 
> Why would a man who loves god refuse such a gift from his creator?
> 
> For all we know god is pissed at these guys for offending him by not accepting his gift
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very short: Who is not able to control the own sexuality is also not able to marry. In all cultures exist rules in context sexuality. One of the most strange cultures of the world in everything what has to do with sexuality is the anglo-american culture. I remember for example that you (=the USA) had arrested once a boy from Switzerland, because he had helped his very little sister to pee. In the eyes of us Germans this boy did something what's totally normal - a very well educated boy - and your nation had arrested him, beause of a totally perverted concept of sexuaity in your laws (and brains). I would say it's not only difficult to speak with anglo-Americans about sexuality - it's impossible.
> 
> Sexuality is in general in the Catholic church very important and not negative. Example:
> 
> _*2332* Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others.
> 
> *2333* Everyone, man and woman, should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity. Physical, moral, and spiritual difference and complementarity are oriented toward the goods of marriage and the flourishing of family life. The harmony of the couple and of society depends in part on the way in which the complementarity, needs, and mutual support between the sexes are lived out.
> 
> *2334* "In creating men 'male and female,' God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity."119 "Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God."1_
> 
> source: Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment
> 
> The reasons for to live without a sexual partner - or without sex within a partnership - but not without love or tenderness (hugs and kisses for example) - are perhaps totally different from this, what you think about.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep trying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
Click to expand...

All cardinals are Nazis at heart.


----------



## zaangalewa

Taz said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> The word "race" is an empty phrase. Best way to see this is for example when a typical man from Japan and a typical "white" man from the USA have a best compatibility in histology for organ donation. Every racist is using such an organ because he likes to survive  - but only in case of a brain transplantation he will change his mind.
> 
> In this case everyone would be a Catholic or a Buddhist, after they had studied both religions for 30 years or longer.
> 
> Lots of Catholics give up sex, lots of Buddhists give up sex. The reasons are different teachings of both religions. So what you said is equivalent as to say no one should trust in Catholics or Buddhists. The reason you say so is to eliminate [trust in] all Catholics and all Buddhists.
> 
> Keeps the question why it should be for any Catholic or Buddhist important, whether you trust in him or not. And you said not "I do not trust"  - you said "no one should trust".  So you "discriminate" the world in two parts of people. The peopel who are like you - and the people, who are not like you. People like you are good - others are not trustworthy. Do you trust in yourselve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it's an empty word yet you used as some sort of criticism.
> 
> I and I don't care why anyone gives up sex all I said was I don't trust a man who says he gave up sex
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You said not "I do not trust" - you said "no one should trust". And you spoke not about your concrete life and your concrete experiences within your personal life with Catholics or Buddhists - you speak about abstracta. And you use this abstracta for discrimination. By the way: Síngles are in statistics much more harmless than married men in context of the crime "child abuse".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one he is probably lying and 2 if he really believed in god then god gave sex to men and women as a gift not only to show their love for each other but to also have children
> 
> Why would a man who loves god refuse such a gift from his creator?
> 
> For all we know god is pissed at these guys for offending him by not accepting his gift
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very short: Who is not able to control the own sexuality is also not able to marry. In all cultures exist rules in context sexuality. One of the most strange cultures of the world in everything what has to do with sexuality is the anglo-american culture. I remember for example that you (=the USA) had arrested once a boy from Switzerland, because he had helped his very little sister to pee. In the eyes of us Germans this boy did something what's totally normal - a very well educated boy - and your nation had arrested him, beause of a totally perverted concept of sexuaity in your laws (and brains). I would say it's not only difficult to speak with anglo-Americans about sexuality - it's impossible.
> 
> Sexuality is in general in the Catholic church very important and not negative. Example:
> 
> _*2332* Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others.
> 
> *2333* Everyone, man and woman, should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity. Physical, moral, and spiritual difference and complementarity are oriented toward the goods of marriage and the flourishing of family life. The harmony of the couple and of society depends in part on the way in which the complementarity, needs, and mutual support between the sexes are lived out.
> 
> *2334* "In creating men 'male and female,' God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity."119 "Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God."1_
> 
> source: Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment
> 
> The reasons for to live without a sexual partner - or without sex within a partnership - but not without love or tenderness (hugs and kisses for example) - are perhaps totally different from this, what you think about.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep trying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All cardinals are Nazis at heart.
Click to expand...


Nazi: What about to try to speak with a psychotherapist about your problems?


----------



## cnm

_In his 2014 appearance, Pell used an analogy of a trucking company: "If the truck driver picks up some lady and then molests her, I don't think it's appropriate, because it is contrary to the policy, for the ownership, the leadership of that company to be held responsible."[158] He was widely criticised for this remark.[159][160][161][162] The president of Adults Surviving Child Abuse, Cathy Kezelman, called his comments "outrageous", saying that they denied the experience of victims. Nicky Davis, from the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP), said that Pell had made a "highly offensive" comparison.[161][163] Michael Bradley, writing in his weekly column for ABC News, said "Yes, it was mind-blowingly insensitive to draw that analogy and to so blithely refer to 'some lady'. But there was a much bigger hole. In the world according to Pell, if the Catholic Church has a policy that tells its priests not to rape children then, if they still do so, the Church cannot be held accountable."[158]
George Pell - Wikipedia_​


----------



## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> _In his 2014 appearance, Pell used an analogy of a trucking company: "If the truck driver picks up some lady and then molests her, I don't think it's appropriate, because it is contrary to the policy, for the ownership, the leadership of that company to be held responsible."[158] He was widely criticised for this remark.[159][160][161][162] The president of Adults Surviving Child Abuse, Cathy Kezelman, called his comments "outrageous", saying that they denied the experience of victims. Nicky Davis, from the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP), said that Pell had made a "highly offensive" comparison.[161][163] Michael Bradley, writing in his weekly column for ABC News, said "Yes, it was mind-blowingly insensitive to draw that analogy and to so blithely refer to 'some lady'. But there was a much bigger hole. In the world according to Pell, if the Catholic Church has a policy that tells its priests not to rape children then, if they still do so, the Church cannot be held accountable."[158]
> George Pell - Wikipedia_​



That's indeed a problem. Do you know any company, NGO, government, sport club, military organisation and so on and so on who has to pay for such crimes of their members? Did ever charge someone the winners of a war for the rapes their soldiers made for example? I heard in the USA lots of Catholic dioceses got bancrupt because of all the accusations - what makes the acussations on their own dubious too: Who says the truth, when he is in danger to lose a lot of money? Who says the truth, when he is able to get a lot of money?

I remember I asked myselve when a woman gave her house to the Catholic church after her death, with the will that in the future might live poor people there, who need help and a home. Now rapes a Catholic priest someone (or not) - and the house is lost beause the diocese is responsible and has to pay for his crimes (which he had done, or not). Give such laws really a feeling of "justice" in the USA?


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> the house is lost beause the diocese is responsible and has to pay for his crimes (which he had done, or not).


She should have remembered with whom she was dealing and made them trustees rather than owners.

Pell's equivocations would be more acceptable if the church had not protected its paedophile officers so vigilantly, shifting them to dioceses where they had not yet been accused and the like. Sooner or later the cherubim come home to roost...


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> That's indeed a problem. Do you know any company, NGO, government, sport club, military organisation and so on and so on who has to pay for such crimes of their members? Did ever charge someone the winners of a war for the rapes their soldiers made for example?


Yes, police are sued all the time for abrogating the civil rights of citizens. No, winners of wars are never charged. Losers, though...


----------



## Votto

Tommy Tainant said:


> Cardinal Pell guilty of child sexual abuse
> 
> *Cardinal George Pell has been found guilty in Australia of sexual offences against children, making him the highest-ranking Catholic figure to receive such a conviction.
> 
> Pell abused two choir boys in Melbourne's cathedral in 1996, a jury found. He had pleaded not guilty.
> 
> As Vatican treasurer, the 77-year-old Australian was widely seen as the Church's third most powerful official.
> 
> Pell, due to face sentencing hearings from Wednesday, has lodged an appeal.*
> 
> The third ranking Catholic, the Popes finance chief, guilty of fucking chldren in the cathedral.
> 
> When the abuse goes to the top it makes it easier to understand why little has been done on this issue. Pell was criticised for his reaction to abuse scandals and now it all makes sense.



The Pope is too busy giving sermons on the evils of building walls and global warming to be concerned.  He also does not care much about the mass genocide of abortion.

Then again, the Catholic church did not come out publically against the Holocaust either.  They had their precious Vatican to protect after all.

In short, the Pope is one of you.

Enjoy!


----------



## Taz

zaangalewa said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it's an empty word yet you used as some sort of criticism.
> 
> I and I don't care why anyone gives up sex all I said was I don't trust a man who says he gave up sex
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You said not "I do not trust" - you said "no one should trust". And you spoke not about your concrete life and your concrete experiences within your personal life with Catholics or Buddhists - you speak about abstracta. And you use this abstracta for discrimination. By the way: Síngles are in statistics much more harmless than married men in context of the crime "child abuse".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For one he is probably lying and 2 if he really believed in god then god gave sex to men and women as a gift not only to show their love for each other but to also have children
> 
> Why would a man who loves god refuse such a gift from his creator?
> 
> For all we know god is pissed at these guys for offending him by not accepting his gift
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very short: Who is not able to control the own sexuality is also not able to marry. In all cultures exist rules in context sexuality. One of the most strange cultures of the world in everything what has to do with sexuality is the anglo-american culture. I remember for example that you (=the USA) had arrested once a boy from Switzerland, because he had helped his very little sister to pee. In the eyes of us Germans this boy did something what's totally normal - a very well educated boy - and your nation had arrested him, beause of a totally perverted concept of sexuaity in your laws (and brains). I would say it's not only difficult to speak with anglo-Americans about sexuality - it's impossible.
> 
> Sexuality is in general in the Catholic church very important and not negative. Example:
> 
> _*2332* Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others.
> 
> *2333* Everyone, man and woman, should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity. Physical, moral, and spiritual difference and complementarity are oriented toward the goods of marriage and the flourishing of family life. The harmony of the couple and of society depends in part on the way in which the complementarity, needs, and mutual support between the sexes are lived out.
> 
> *2334* "In creating men 'male and female,' God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity."119 "Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God."1_
> 
> source: Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment
> 
> The reasons for to live without a sexual partner - or without sex within a partnership - but not without love or tenderness (hugs and kisses for example) - are perhaps totally different from this, what you think about.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Keep trying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All cardinals are Nazis at heart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nazi: What about to try to speak with a psychotherapist about your problems?
Click to expand...

Give me your therapist's number.


----------



## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> the house is lost beause the diocese is responsible and has to pay for his crimes (which he had done, or not).
> 
> 
> 
> She should have remembered with whom she was dealing and made them trustees rather than owners.
Click to expand...


?



> Pell's equivocations [/Quortw]
> 
> Equivocation? ... Okay - you see something in this text, what I do not see.
> 
> [Quote ]would be more acceptable if the church had not protected its paedophile officers so vigilantly,



I am the church and what did I do?



> shifting them to dioceses where they had not yet been accused and the like.



I don't know what what you speak about in the moment. When someone is accused in Australia then this is part of the criminal justice system of Australia. People are in such cases often in detention while awaiting a trial and/or suffer restrictions of their right to move. What has this to do with "the church"? What means "to move them, where they not yet had been accused"?



> Sooner or later the cherubim come home to roost...



Strange idea.


----------



## zaangalewa

Taz said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said not "I do not trust" - you said "no one should trust". And you spoke not about your concrete life and your concrete experiences within your personal life with Catholics or Buddhists - you speak about abstracta. And you use this abstracta for discrimination. By the way: Síngles are in statistics much more harmless than married men in context of the crime "child abuse".
> 
> Very short: Who is not able to control the own sexuality is also not able to marry. In all cultures exist rules in context sexuality. One of the most strange cultures of the world in everything what has to do with sexuality is the anglo-american culture. I remember for example that you (=the USA) had arrested once a boy from Switzerland, because he had helped his very little sister to pee. In the eyes of us Germans this boy did something what's totally normal - a very well educated boy - and your nation had arrested him, beause of a totally perverted concept of sexuaity in your laws (and brains). I would say it's not only difficult to speak with anglo-Americans about sexuality - it's impossible.
> 
> Sexuality is in general in the Catholic church very important and not negative. Example:
> 
> _*2332* Sexuality affects all aspects of the human person in the unity of his body and soul. It especially concerns affectivity, the capacity to love and to procreate, and in a more general way the aptitude for forming bonds of communion with others.
> 
> *2333* Everyone, man and woman, should acknowledge and accept his sexual identity. Physical, moral, and spiritual difference and complementarity are oriented toward the goods of marriage and the flourishing of family life. The harmony of the couple and of society depends in part on the way in which the complementarity, needs, and mutual support between the sexes are lived out.
> 
> *2334* "In creating men 'male and female,' God gives man and woman an equal personal dignity."119 "Man is a person, man and woman equally so, since both were created in the image and likeness of the personal God."1_
> 
> source: Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment
> 
> The reasons for to live without a sexual partner - or without sex within a partnership - but not without love or tenderness (hugs and kisses for example) - are perhaps totally different from this, what you think about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep trying
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All cardinals are Nazis at heart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nazi: What about to try to speak with a psychotherapist about your problems?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me your therapist's number.
Click to expand...


I forgot that to need a psychotherapy is a sign of weakness for a structural Nazi. But why have I the feeling someone needs a psychotherapy, who tinks alway only in violent structures and is stalking me, since he knows I have Jewish ancestors too?


----------



## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's indeed a problem. Do you know any company, NGO, government, sport club, military organisation and so on and so on who has to pay for such crimes of their members? Did ever charge someone the winners of a war for the rapes their soldiers made for example?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, police are sued all the time for abrogating the civil rights of citizens. No, winners of wars are never charged. Losers, though...
Click to expand...


So why had the Catholic Church in the USA to pay more money than all other organisations of the USA together in context "child abuse"? Or what do I not see?


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## Taz

zaangalewa said:


> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blues Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Keep trying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All cardinals are Nazis at heart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nazi: What about to try to speak with a psychotherapist about your problems?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me your therapist's number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I forgot that to need a psychotherapy is a sign of weakness for a structural Nazi. But why have I the feeling someone needs a psychotherapy, who tinks alway only in violent structures and is stalking me, since he knows I have Jewish ancestors too?
Click to expand...

Which is weird because you hate Jews so much. Myself, I'm a friend of Israel.


----------



## zaangalewa

Taz said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> All cardinals are Nazis at heart.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nazi: What about to try to speak with a psychotherapist about your problems?
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give me your therapist's number.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I forgot that to need a psychotherapy is a sign of weakness for a structural Nazi. But why have I the feeling someone needs a psychotherapy, who tinks alway only in violent structures and is stalking me, since he knows I have Jewish ancestors too?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Which is weird because you hate Jews so much. Myself, I'm a friend of Israel.
Click to expand...


And you are sure you don't need a psychotherapy?


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> What has this to do with "the church"? What means "to move them, where they not yet had been accused"?


Moving offending officers of the church to dioceses where complaints of them to the church had not yet been made. Come on, I find it difficult to believe you don't know of this common practice of the church.


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## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> So why had the Catholic Church in the USA to pay more money than all other organisations of the USA together in context "child abuse"? Or what do I not see?


I don't know that they did, or why if that's the case. I'd suspect there's a price to be paid for a long history of official celibacy and authoritarianism.


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## HenryBHough

Hard not to believe when the OP obviously speaks from intimate personal knowledge.

In the courtroom?

Or elsewhere?


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## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What has this to do with "the church"? What means "to move them, where they not yet had been accused"?
> 
> 
> 
> Moving offending officers of the church
Click to expand...


Officers? I don't know what to do with this word in context of my church. We are laymen and clerics. Clerics are people, who like to live the Catholic faith more intensive than others. And some are somehow authorized to teach and/or to give some instructions. Bishops or abbots and abbesses for example. Unfortunatelly we do not have female bishops - perhaps this would had been better. But this decision is not a decision a laymen like me is able to do. I guess it will need a synod to change in this point something for example. But not any man you call "officer" in my church could change anything in my mind, except he convinces me with real arguments. And no one is able to fire me. A Catholic is irredeemable.



> to dioceses where complaints of them to the church had not yet been made.



When someone makes a crime he has to go to a jail. And sometimes, when someone not did do a crime then he has to go to a jail too - I'm for example personally convinced Cardinal Pell is innocent, because this story seems to be totally mad and not plausible at all. I would say in general the whole world - the English speaking world too - is full of wrong accusations and wrong judgements.



> Come on, I find it difficult to believe you don't know of this common practice of the church.



A very short time ago for example some men in Germany ... how to say this now? ... are in suspicion they could had killed someone in a rumble, who was under the  suspicion to be a child moslester. I'm sure they will find out this was only a kind of accident. Lynch mob? Absurde. This is Germany and not a third world country. Or isn't it?

In the 1950ies or 60ies for example no one was sure to not to be killed immediatelly from one or some men, who was (¿under suspicion?) to be a child molestor. A priest they had perhaps killed without any grace immediatelly by staking his heart, because only a demon is doing such unholy things. I do not think the situation in the USA was and is essentially more different under Catholics. I hope we are a little more wise now.

On the other side: I'm very sure everywhere in the whole word in all countries, states, companies and organisations they tried to bring someone out of fire, who was under suspicion to be a child molestor. And what else do the people today? ... Oh - they fire someone. And the man is hired in another company. What a brilliant idea. Now the society is able to sleep pleasently dreams, because everyone is safe.


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## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why had the Catholic Church in the USA to pay more money than all other organisations of the USA together in context "child abuse"? Or what do I not see?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that they did, or why if that's the case. I'd suspect there's a price to be paid for a long history of official celibacy and authoritarianism.
Click to expand...


Celibacy has absolutelly nothing to do with pedophilia.  Pepophilia is - like homosexuality (and I do not say now pedophilia and homosexuality are the same) - a stable disposition of behavior, which occurs with adolescence. The reasons for seem to be genetically and lies in the early childhood (same with homosexuality). The idea that homosexuality is a sickness and should be changed or healed is meanwhile an absurde idea. But this "protection" of homosexual people paralyzes perhaps the psychological research. We do not need in case of homosexuality - but we need very urgent in case of pedophilia - methods how to heal such a stable disposition of behavior. A pedophile man today has only the chance to avoid every contact to all children. That's not so easy.

And let me say here at this place also "thank you" to all pedophile men in general. You are great - with only some few exceptions. It's said up to 5% of all men suffer this desease. But I know, when you would not control yourselve in such a very good way as you are doing, then we had much more problems. So be not frustrated when you are not able to make a success in your emotions and feelings. Use your rationality to keep im the background this delusion and danger. It's irreal to fall in love with children. To love children has absolutelly nothing to do with sexual feelings. Keep on to avoid contact with children. Then you do not suffer and the children are safe from the danger which is in you, watcher. God bless you and will hopefully always give you the strength to win against the most terrible enemy all mankind knows since it exists: the own self.


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## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why had the Catholic Church in the USA to pay more money than all other organisations of the USA together in context "child abuse"? Or what do I not see?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know that they did, or why if that's the case. I'd suspect there's a price to be paid for a long history of official celibacy and authoritarianism.
Click to expand...


Says a member of the holy church USA about the unholy anti-American catholic church. In Pennsylvania for example exists an institution, which helps the system of justice there not to waste money. This institution is called "grand jury" and tries to find out, wether it makes sense to accuse someone or not. They found out - in a very famous report - that 1000 children were abused in Pennsylvania from clerics of the catholic church. The only problem with this all: How many clerics were child molestors? And how many were accused because of this report? What had happened with all this men?

And by the way: If this 1000 children were indeed molested from clerics - what was never proven from any court -  how many children in Pennsylvania were molested from others during the same time of history?


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> When someone makes a crime he has to go to a jail.


Yet when complaints were made to office holders of the Catholic church in Australia, the alleged offender was shifted to other dioceses rather than being handed over to the police for investigation and prosecution. This makes Pell's defence receive little sympathy. You seem to be denying the church protected its offenders. Are you?


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## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> Says a member of the holy church USA about the unholy anti-American catholic church.


Hilarity.


----------



## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> When someone makes a crime he has to go to a jail.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet when complaints were made to office holders of the Catholic church in Australia, the alleged offender was shifted to other dioceses rather than being handed over to the police for investigation and prosecution.
Click to expand...


That's just simple nonsense and bullshit.  Since when is the police and public prosecution organized in dioceses?



> This makes Pell's defence receive little sympathy.



Although he is a citizen of the Vatican too, Cardinal Pell came to Australia because the Catholic church had trusted in the integrity of the Australian "system of justice". I see this with very sceptic eyes, because lots of tyrannies exist on this planet. Australia is not a tyranny - ¿or is it? - but this misjudgement is in my eyes only an evil joke. I would say everyone is able to be arrested and judged in Australia - completely independent from any reality. And everyone has the right to be protected from the Australian state with the torture solitary confinement and sensory and social deprivation and insufficient activity.



> You seem to be denying the church protected its offenders. Are you?



Let me say it this way: We are a kind of spiritual sports club or fisher club. We don't have offenders. We have people, who sleep during church service or something like this. What for heavens sake do you expect from our church?

Let me calculate. I use here data I found out in Germany and will generalize it now. A clerics of the church, who lives in celebacy, is in average 25 times more harmless in case of the crime "sexual abuse" than any other male being on this planet. A psychiatrist here found even out the factor is 36 times higher in the so called "normal" population. It exists about 400,000 priests worldwide - and I calculate now 140,000 monks (that's the relation in Germany) so we have about 540,000 male Clerics. Let me calculate the population of the world with 5.4 billion (it's more). This are about 2.7 billion men. So let all catholic clerics do x crimes. How many did the "rest of the male world"? 2.7 billion / 540 thousand * 25 = 5,000*25 = 125,000. The factor is "times 125,000" (and perhaps even much higher). Did you ever have the feeling you are discussing a minimum of 125,000 more often about sexual abuse from people, who are not clerics from the Catholic Church?

And how much money had the Church to pay in the USA? Let me say "x billions". What is 125,000 times x billions? ... Oh damn - I don't know how to name this number in the English language. But your world will love it, because it is titanicly high.


----------



## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Says a member of the holy church USA about the unholy anti-American catholic church.
> 
> 
> 
> Hilarity.
Click to expand...


It's totally clear that the USA has a big part of an anti-Catholic population. Otherwise it's not explainable that only less than 1.5% of the history of the USA a Catholic was president of the USA. This was one person for less than three years: John F. Kennedy. And he was murdered. I would say to be a Catholic was enough reason to murder a president of the USA.


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> What for heavens sake do you expect from our church?


That when complaints of sexual misconduct are made against those who hold office in the church, the church firstly does not send them to other dioceses to protect them from the complaints and secondly, passes those complaints on to the police/authorities. Reasonable, surely?


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> It's totally clear that the USA has a big part of an anti-Catholic population.


What has that to do with me?


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> A clerics of the church, who lives in celebacy, is in average 25 times more harmless in case of the crime "sexual abuse" than any other male being on this planet.


Do you make that estimate according to complaints received by the police/authorities?


----------



## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What for heavens sake do you expect from our church?
> 
> 
> 
> That when complaints of sexual misconduct are made against those who hold office in the church, the church firstly does not send them to other dioceses to protect them from the complaints and secondly, passes those complaints on to the police/authorities. Reasonable, surely?
Click to expand...


No.



cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's totally clear that the USA has a big part of an anti-Catholic population.
> 
> 
> 
> What has that to do with me?
Click to expand...


You are English



cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> A clerics of the church, who lives in celebacy, is in average 25 times more harmless in case of the crime "sexual abuse" than any other male being on this planet.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you make that estimate according to complaints received by the police/authorities?
Click to expand...


no comment


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> No.


That's why Pell is receiving scant sympathy.


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> You are English


Aotearoa. Te Ika a Maui to be more geographically precise.


----------



## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why Pell is receiving scant sympathy.
Click to expand...


But Cardinal Pell said not "no". I said "no" to your question.



cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are English
> 
> 
> 
> Aotearoa. Te Ika a Maui to be more geographically precise.
Click to expand...


You are not a Maori or an aborigine. You are an Englishman. You drink alcohol and survive in 95 or 99.5% of all cases in longer term on biological reasons - aborigines drink alcohol and die in 95 or 99.5% in longer term on biological reasons, after they destroyed their social structures. And the laws in Australia say not to let drink aborigines alcohol is racism, isn't it?


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> But Cardinal Pell said not "no". I said "no" to your question.


Yes. That you think it is not reasonable office holders in your church accused of sexual violation should not be moved to another diocese nor should be referred to the police when complained about is the culture of protection of offenders in your church which ensures little sympathy for Pell's position.
Btw, that chain need tensioning.


----------



## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> But Cardinal Pell said not "no". I said "no" to your question.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. That you think it is not reasonable
Click to expand...


Exactly: It's not reasonable what you say.



> office holders in your church



Our what?



> accused of sexual violation



That's not a problem of the church - that's a problem of public prosecution.



> should not be moved to another diocese



Why? When a worker changes the factory what is the problem? It's not the job of anyone else except police, prosecution or judges to minimize the right of freedom of movement.



> nor should be referred to the police when complained about is the culture of protection of offenders in your church which ensures little sympathy for Pell's position.
> Btw, that chain need tensioning.



What for heavens sake do you call "Pell's position"? Pell's position is very clear: _"I am innocent!"_ And I think this is true, because the story, why he is in jail, sounds not plausible at all.


----------



## cnm

zaangalewa said:


> What for heavens sake do you call "Pell's position"?


His position is 'It wasn't me, I didn't do nothing, I am innocent.'

The history of the Catholic church's treatment of alleged offenders leads to no sympathy for his position.


----------



## zaangalewa

cnm said:


> zaangalewa said:
> 
> 
> 
> What for heavens sake do you call "Pell's position"?
> 
> 
> 
> His position is 'It wasn't me, I didn't do nothing, I am innocent.'
Click to expand...


His position is "I am innocent." And I think this is true. With other words: I think it had happened a misjudgement.



> The history of the Catholic church's treatment of alleged offenders



Concrete example? Lots of people have a very obscure view to the real facts of history.



> leads to no sympathy for his position.



So who shares not your position is in danger to be without your sympathy. An to be without your sympathy justifies it to bring innocent people in jail.


----------

