# Why we need to nationalize our energy sector



## spectrumc01

Energy makes the world go around, especially in todays society.  Electricity is a must have if you intend on living in the United States, with the notable exception of the Amish.  Let it be said though that even the Amish are having a hard time fitting in and are moving further and further west.  We use electricity for a wide variety of essential everyday needs from running our refridgerators (food), heating our homes (shelter), providing lights so we can operate and function around the clock, and to run our televisions (information gathering).  Wether you have electricity or not determines what type of society you live in such as in the industrial world, or the third world.  The question to ask yourself is...can I live for over a year without electricity?  Every post cataclysmic scenerio puts man back decades if not longer because of the lack of electricity, society crumbles without it.

Electricity comes from a variety of sources, water, wind, solar, nuclear, and fosil fuels.  Oil being the most versitile of the lot is the most coveted.  Our society has entwined itself with oil and has become so dependant on it that without it we would not last very long.  Oil provides the means to do everything from transportation to production to providing electricity, and to heating our homes (along with natural gas).  I believe it would be fair to put oil into the same catagory as electricity when it comes to it's effect on society if it became absent.  Society would crumble.  Though it would be easier to get by without oil than electricity the effects would be very comparable.  Let it be noted that alot of our electricity comes from oil as well.

Given the facts about electricity and oil and their effects and contributions to society I cannot understand how energy in the United States has not been nationalized yet.  In todays day and age with speculators and oil companies record setting profits how is it that this is allowed to continue?  I would put forth that in the intrests of the population our energy should be produced, maintained, and provided by our government to ensure an affordable price to all.  Now wether the government hires independant contractors to help with this or not would remain to be seen.

Would this make us a socialist society? absolutely.  Would this be a difficult transition? absolutely.  Would this be beneficial to the population as a whole? absolutely.  Would the oil fat cats and energy mongers fight this tooth and nail? without question, yes.  In the quest for energy independance I feel that it is a must that we nationalize our energy sector.  To leave it up to individuals to do what is right has not proven to be the answer (greed), leaving it up to wall street has also proven not to be the answer (free market system / capitalism), and leaving it up to government regulations (politics) is not the answer either.  Even dealing with OPEC has proven not to work (foreign policy).

We as a nation of free people need to re-evaluate our energy situation before we are no longer a free people.  This I believe is what our government was created to do, protect us from enemies foriegn and domestic, and to maintain a fair and level playing field for all.  We are already part way there, we maintain a standing army and now we must follow up with a nationalized energy policy to ensure our way of life, our civilization can survive and thrive.


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## Mr. H.

It would make more sense for us all to become Amish. 
Cheaper too.


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## spectrumc01

Mr. H. said:


> It would make more sense for us all to become Amish.
> Cheaper too.



The Amish will eventually be our downfall...but that is another thread


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## Mr. H.

spectrumc01 said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would make more sense for us all to become Amish.
> Cheaper too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Amish will eventually be our downfall...but that is another thread
Click to expand...


They do make a mean cheese curd. 

Heini's Cheese Chalet


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## Sallow

This is probably a yes and no thing. Right know it is big energy that has way to much control of the government. If regulations caught up with the present situation, it might very well be possible for it to remain in the private sector. But by no means can it go on the way it has been.


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## spectrumc01

Sallow said:


> This is probably a yes and no thing. Right know it is big energy that has way to much control of the government. If regulations caught up with the present situation, it might very well be possible for it to remain in the private sector. But by no means can it go on the way it has been.



Of course it can't go on this way, and if we don't act now it could be too late.  The Big energy companies run this show and have us by the short hairs.  Government is a tool of the people to keep everything level and by not allowing a few individual companies or people to rule over the rest of us.


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## 1947bubba

i think you are out of your mind. our government has never been able to run anything. maybe the military, but they will not even take care of our wounded returning from the wars. if we keep going like we are we will end up a banana republic. the gov has to much control now, about70% of it needs to go away.


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## Mr. H.

Cheese curds.


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## RGR

spectrumc01 said:


> Given the facts about electricity and oil and their effects and contributions to society I cannot understand how energy in the United States has not been nationalized yet.



Because nationalized systems suck when compared to the free market. Want to make something less efficient? Put the government in charge.



			
				spectrumc01 said:
			
		

> In todays day and age with speculators and oil companies record setting profits how is it that this is allowed to continue?



Because the alternative is worse.


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## boedicca

Yeah.  Let's nationalize energy so that the same people who are granting waivers from ObamaCare to their pals can rig the distribution and pricing so that the well connected get plentiful bargains and the rest of us are screwed.


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## daveman

spectrumc01 said:


> Energy makes the world go around, especially in todays society.  Electricity is a must have if you intend on living in the United States, with the notable exception of the Amish.  Let it be said though that even the Amish are having a hard time fitting in and are moving further and further west.  We use electricity for a wide variety of essential everyday needs from running our refridgerators (food), heating our homes (shelter), providing lights so we can operate and function around the clock, and to run our televisions (information gathering).  Wether you have electricity or not determines what type of society you live in such as in the industrial world, or the third world.  The question to ask yourself is...can I live for over a year without electricity?  Every post cataclysmic scenerio puts man back decades if not longer because of the lack of electricity, society crumbles without it.
> 
> Electricity comes from a variety of sources, water, wind, solar, nuclear, and fosil fuels.  Oil being the most versitile of the lot is the most coveted.  Our society has entwined itself with oil and has become so dependant on it that without it we would not last very long.  Oil provides the means to do everything from transportation to production to providing electricity, and to heating our homes (along with natural gas).  I believe it would be fair to put oil into the same catagory as electricity when it comes to it's effect on society if it became absent.  Society would crumble.  Though it would be easier to get by without oil than electricity the effects would be very comparable.  Let it be noted that alot of our electricity comes from oil as well.
> 
> Given the facts about electricity and oil and their effects and contributions to society I cannot understand how energy in the United States has not been nationalized yet.  In todays day and age with speculators and oil companies record setting profits how is it that this is allowed to continue?  I would put forth that in the intrests of the population our energy should be produced, maintained, and provided by our government to ensure an affordable price to all.  Now wether the government hires independant contractors to help with this or not would remain to be seen.
> 
> Would this make us a socialist society? absolutely.  Would this be a difficult transition? absolutely.  Would this be beneficial to the population as a whole? absolutely.  Would the oil fat cats and energy mongers fight this tooth and nail? without question, yes.  In the quest for energy independance I feel that it is a must that we nationalize our energy sector.  To leave it up to individuals to do what is right has not proven to be the answer (greed), leaving it up to wall street has also proven not to be the answer (free market system / capitalism), and leaving it up to government regulations (politics) is not the answer either.  Even dealing with OPEC has proven not to work (foreign policy).
> 
> We as a nation of free people need to re-evaluate our energy situation before we are no longer a free people.  This I believe is what our government was created to do, protect us from enemies foriegn and domestic, and to maintain a fair and level playing field for all.  We are already part way there, we maintain a standing army and now we must follow up with a nationalized energy policy to ensure our way of life, our civilization can survive and thrive.


It's funny how you say we'll lose our freedom if we don't give up our freedom.  Where have I heard something like that before...?

Oh, yeah --

War is Peace.
Ignorance is Strength.
Freedom is Slavery.  



So, to answer your question, no.  Not happening.


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## preciseenergy

It is very important for our future.


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## daveman

preciseenergy said:


> It is very important for our future.



Socialism is a failure.


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## editec

SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.

I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.

There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary

The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.

Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.

I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.


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## spectrumc01

editec said:


> SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.
> 
> I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.
> 
> There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary
> 
> The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.
> 
> Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.
> 
> I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.



by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down.  Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.


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## FuelRod

Oil without question is the lifeblood of our economy and thus society.
Far too important to be left in the hands of an inept Government.


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## KissMy

spectrumc01 said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.
> 
> I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.
> 
> There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary
> 
> The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.
> 
> Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.
> 
> I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down.  Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.
Click to expand...


Yeah - Just how big is that big nasty oil company profit margin?


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## spectrumc01

FuelRod said:


> Oil without question is the lifeblood of our economy and thus society.
> Far too important to be left in the hands of an inept Government.



an inept government or a handful of people running the oil industry bent on making as much money as possible all the while turning their heads to problems their greed is causing.  Or the other handfull of people who run opec who hate us?  I still believe that the govenment energy is the way to go as a matter of national security.


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## Two Thumbs

I can't fathom the lack of maturaty in a person that hates private biz cuz they are a bunch of money making meanies, but the begs that the government that only takes money, to take care of them.

You have to completely ignore current facts and history to think the government won't fuck it up.


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## Two Thumbs

spectrumc01 said:


> FuelRod said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oil without question is the lifeblood of our economy and thus society.
> Far too important to be left in the hands of an inept Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> an inept government or a handful of people running the oil industry bent on making as much money as possible all the while turning their heads to problems their greed is causing.  Or the other handfull of people who run opec who hate us?  I still believe that the govenment energy is the way to go as a matter of national security.
Click to expand...


Evul oil fat cats make $.08 profit on a gallon of gas
Pure loving Big daddy government makes over $.40 a gallon.


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## Bill Angel

RGR said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Given the facts about electricity and oil and their effects and contributions to society I cannot understand how energy in the United States has not been nationalized yet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because nationalized systems suck when compared to the free market. Want to make something less efficient? Put the government in charge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In todays day and age with speculators and oil companies record setting profits how is it that this is allowed to continue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because the alternative is worse.
Click to expand...


There is one model for government ownership of energy production that appears to be successful: the Tennessee Valley Authority. To quote from their web page:



> "The Tennessee Valley Authority, a *corporation owned by the U.S. government*, provides electricity for 9 million people in parts of seven southeastern states at prices below the national average. TVA, which receives no taxpayer money and makes no profits, also provides flood control, navigation and land management for the Tennessee River system and assists utilities and state and local governments with economic development.
> 
> TVA's Mission and Vision
> 
> TVA has renewed its vision to help lead the Tennessee Valley region and the nation toward a cleaner and more secure energy future, relying more on nuclear power and energy efficiency and relying less on coal."



See: TVA: Home Page


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## spectrumc01

Two Thumbs said:


> I can't fathom the lack of maturaty in a person that hates private biz cuz they are a bunch of money making meanies, but the begs that the government that only takes money, to take care of them.
> 
> You have to completely ignore current facts and history to think the government won't fuck it up.



Answer me this...who has my best intrests in mind?...who has this countries best intrests in mind?...it's not a matter of fucking it up, it is a matter lowering prices.  The government doesn't need a profit, business does.


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## FuelRod

spectrumc01 said:


> FuelRod said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oil without question is the lifeblood of our economy and thus society.
> Far too important to be left in the hands of an inept Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> an inept government or a handful of people running the oil industry bent on making as much money as possible all the while turning their heads to problems their greed is causing.  Or the other handfull of people who run opec who hate us?  I still believe that the govenment energy is the way to go as a matter of national security.
Click to expand...


The solution is right at your fingertips.
All your Government needs to do is allow for more domestic production.


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## spectrumc01

FuelRod said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FuelRod said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oil without question is the lifeblood of our economy and thus society.
> Far too important to be left in the hands of an inept Government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> an inept government or a handful of people running the oil industry bent on making as much money as possible all the while turning their heads to problems their greed is causing.  Or the other handfull of people who run opec who hate us?  I still believe that the govenment energy is the way to go as a matter of national security.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The solution is right at your fingertips.
> All your Government needs to do is allow for more domestic production.
Click to expand...


more domestic production will not lower prices significanly enough.  Look at any of your bills, do they ever go down? they say the rate stays the same because blah,blah,blah(pick any lame ass excuse).  It will be the same for gas, history proves it.


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## FuelRod

If you don't understand the economic theory you really have no business suggesting what the Government should control and should not.


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## spectrumc01

FuelRod said:


> If you don't understand the economic theory you really have no business suggesting what the Government should control and should not.



Explain to me this then...If I have two entities selling gas to me, A & B, entity A needs no profit, and entity B needs to make a profit, how does entity A sell me gas at a higher rate?


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## Two Thumbs

spectrumc01 said:


> Two Thumbs said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't fathom the lack of maturaty in a person that hates private biz cuz they are a bunch of money making meanies, but the begs that the government that only takes money, to take care of them.
> 
> You have to completely ignore current facts and history to think the government won't fuck it up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer me this...who has my best intrests in mind?...who has this countries best intrests in mind?...it's not a matter of fucking it up, it is a matter lowering prices.  *The government doesn't need a profit*, business does.
Click to expand...


bullshit

No profit needed?  Then how the fuck are they going to pay the people that work the rigs?
rig work is one of the most dangerous jobs.  Do you expect people to do that job and get an average pay?

Your nuts to think the governement cares about you or the country.  Poloticians #1 job is re-election.  And if you hate a pol, you have to wait 4-6 years to 'try' to get rid of him.

If you hate an oil company, don't do biz with them, if enough people stop, they will either be forced to change or go under.

The government has no reprecusions for it's actions, lack of actions or screw ups.


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## Toro

Nationalizing our energy industry is a great idea. 



If you want to produce less energy less efficiently.


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## Anachronism

I WORK FOR AN ELECTRIC & GAS UTILITY COMPANY. Now that the disclaimer has been made loud and clear......

This would be the most utterly ridiculous idea that I have heard in a long time. Realize that electric utility companies are already REGULATED by both the individual states and to a lesser degree the Federal Government. The most effective means for running electric utilities is on a regional basis, not on a National level. We already have the regional ISO's that oversee the system. Smaller, more distinct and defined areas are the best way to maximize the customer service, outage management, and electric distribution system. Trust me on this one. The company I work for is too big already. Making things LARGER is not going to help.


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## Two Thumbs

Toro said:


> Nationalizing our energy industry is a great idea.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to produce less energy less efficiently.



Put the government in charge of wet dreams and the birth rate would plummet.

then they would claim to have saved the planet from over crowding.


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## whitehall

Weren't you watching when Fannie Mae collapsed? It was supervised by congress in a weird partnership with the private sector. Politicians couldn't run an in-house post office without stealing stamps. The congressional caffeteria went under and had to be bailed out by the private sector. The short answer is that politicians are the worst people you want to put in charge of anything, especially energy production.


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## Paulie

spectrumc01 said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.
> 
> I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.
> 
> There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary
> 
> The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.
> 
> Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.
> 
> I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down.  Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.
Click to expand...


The government doesn't have a profit motive.  They don't care whether they make a profit, break even, or go in the red.  They will simply spend the entire budget allocation on oil production and whether or not its financially efficient will be of no concern to them because another budget will be passed with another allocation in the future.  

Funding would come from tax dollars, which are theoretically available forever.  So if money is lost producing oil, who cares, there's money available forever.  As long as oil is being provided, right?  

You could always ASSUME that people would keep the system running properly through their due diligence and their vote, but I don't see that happening anywhere else with government spending so why think it would be different with government-run oil production?


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## RadiomanATL

Paulie said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.
> 
> I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.
> 
> There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary
> 
> The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.
> 
> Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.
> 
> I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down.  Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The government doesn't have a profit motive.  They don't care whether they make a profit, break even, or go in the red.  They will simply spend the entire budget allocation on oil production and whether or not its financially efficient will be of no concern to them because another budget will be passed with another allocation in the future.
> 
> Funding would come from tax dollars, which are theoretically available forever.  So if money is lost producing oil, who cares, there's money available forever.  As long as oil is being provided, right?
> 
> You could always ASSUME that people would keep the system running properly through their due diligence and their vote, but I don't see that happening anywhere else with government spending so why think it would be different with government-run oil production?
Click to expand...


OP killer right there.


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## Sallow

RadiomanATL said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down.  Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The government doesn't have a profit motive.  They don't care whether they make a profit, break even, or go in the red.  They will simply spend the entire budget allocation on oil production and whether or not its financially efficient will be of no concern to them because another budget will be passed with another allocation in the future.
> 
> Funding would come from tax dollars, which are theoretically available forever.  So if money is lost producing oil, who cares, there's money available forever.  As long as oil is being provided, right?
> 
> You could always ASSUME that people would keep the system running properly through their due diligence and their vote, but I don't see that happening anywhere else with government spending so why think it would be different with government-run oil production?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OP killer right there.
Click to expand...


Not really.

And it sort of supports the OP..although that's not the intention.


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## Paulie

I'd go out on a limb and say the oil industry is already nationalized.

It's become pretty obvious now that the government will financially back stop big companies in the event that they face bankruptcy.  So if Exxon makes a bunch of stupid mistakes and loses their ass, our tax dollars will prop them up anyway.

This way, we don't actually have to CALL it nationalization.


----------



## RadiomanATL

Sallow said:


> RadiomanATL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The government doesn't have a profit motive.  They don't care whether they make a profit, break even, or go in the red.  They will simply spend the entire budget allocation on oil production and whether or not its financially efficient will be of no concern to them because another budget will be passed with another allocation in the future.
> 
> Funding would come from tax dollars, which are theoretically available forever.  So if money is lost producing oil, who cares, there's money available forever.  As long as oil is being provided, right?
> 
> You could always ASSUME that people would keep the system running properly through their due diligence and their vote, but I don't see that happening anywhere else with government spending so why think it would be different with government-run oil production?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OP killer right there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really.
> 
> And it sort of supports the OP..although that's not the intention.
Click to expand...


Nonsense.


----------



## JiggsCasey

Paulie said:


> I'd go out on a limb and say the oil industry is already nationalized.
> 
> It's become pretty obvious now that the government will financially back stop big companies in the event that they face bankruptcy.  So if Exxon makes a bunch of stupid mistakes and loses their ass, our tax dollars will prop them up anyway.
> 
> This way, we don't actually have to CALL it nationalization.



^ this...   

but then... 

what's that Mussolini referred to as the perfect merger between the corporation and the state?


----------



## editec

spectrumc01 said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.
> 
> I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.
> 
> There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary
> 
> The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.
> 
> Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.
> 
> I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down. Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.
Click to expand...

 
Would it?

Are you absolutely sure about that?

Why?

Show us the numbers and how the government would insure that there was enough energy and how they would fairly share it.


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## KissMy

The DOE just made a bunch more Solar loan guarantees.


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## Quantum Windbag

spectrumc01 said:


> Energy makes the world go around, especially in todays society.  Electricity is a must have if you intend on living in the United States, with the notable exception of the Amish.  Let it be said though that even the Amish are having a hard time fitting in and are moving further and further west.  We use electricity for a wide variety of essential everyday needs from running our refridgerators (food), heating our homes (shelter), providing lights so we can operate and function around the clock, and to run our televisions (information gathering).  Wether you have electricity or not determines what type of society you live in such as in the industrial world, or the third world.  The question to ask yourself is...can I live for over a year without electricity?  Every post cataclysmic scenerio puts man back decades if not longer because of the lack of electricity, society crumbles without it.
> 
> Electricity comes from a variety of sources, water, wind, solar, nuclear, and fosil fuels.  Oil being the most versitile of the lot is the most coveted.  Our society has entwined itself with oil and has become so dependant on it that without it we would not last very long.  Oil provides the means to do everything from transportation to production to providing electricity, and to heating our homes (along with natural gas).  I believe it would be fair to put oil into the same catagory as electricity when it comes to it's effect on society if it became absent.  Society would crumble.  Though it would be easier to get by without oil than electricity the effects would be very comparable.  Let it be noted that alot of our electricity comes from oil as well.
> 
> Given the facts about electricity and oil and their effects and contributions to society I cannot understand how energy in the United States has not been nationalized yet.  In todays day and age with speculators and oil companies record setting profits how is it that this is allowed to continue?  I would put forth that in the intrests of the population our energy should be produced, maintained, and provided by our government to ensure an affordable price to all.  Now wether the government hires independant contractors to help with this or not would remain to be seen.
> 
> Would this make us a socialist society? absolutely.  Would this be a difficult transition? absolutely.  Would this be beneficial to the population as a whole? absolutely.  Would the oil fat cats and energy mongers fight this tooth and nail? without question, yes.  In the quest for energy independance I feel that it is a must that we nationalize our energy sector.  To leave it up to individuals to do what is right has not proven to be the answer (greed), leaving it up to wall street has also proven not to be the answer (free market system / capitalism), and leaving it up to government regulations (politics) is not the answer either.  Even dealing with OPEC has proven not to work (foreign policy).
> 
> We as a nation of free people need to re-evaluate our energy situation before we are no longer a free people.  This I believe is what our government was created to do, protect us from enemies foriegn and domestic, and to maintain a fair and level playing field for all.  We are already part way there, we maintain a standing army and now we must follow up with a nationalized energy policy to ensure our way of life, our civilization can survive and thrive.



It usually takes a few posts before someone invokes Godwin's law, congratulations on doing it on the first post. The government was created because idiots like you wanted power to be concentrated in the hands of a select few and no one wanted to see that happen here. Congratulations on becoming the enemy you are calling on the government to fight.


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## Quantum Windbag

editec said:


> SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.
> 
> I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.
> 
> There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary
> 
> The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.
> 
> Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.
> 
> I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.



My guess is that it will not only be more expensive, it will actually take longer to drill, and end up being more harmful to the environment.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

spectrumc01 said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.
> 
> I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.
> 
> There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary
> 
> The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.
> 
> Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.
> 
> I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down.  Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.
Click to expand...




That is the same theory they had when Medicare was created, how has that worked out so far?


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## Quantum Windbag

spectrumc01 said:


> FuelRod said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't understand the economic theory you really have no business suggesting what the Government should control and should not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explain to me this then...If I have two entities selling gas to me, A & B, entity A needs no profit, and entity B needs to make a profit, how does entity A sell me gas at a higher rate?
Click to expand...


What makes you think the government will not need a profit? They will need a fund to pay for the potential disasters, another fund to aid exploration and development, another one to lobby Congress for easier regulations on drilling, another one to help pay for roads, and so on ad infinitum. They will call it a tax, but it will be the equivalent of a profit if you look at it as a business.


----------



## Paulie

JiggsCasey said:


> Paulie said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd go out on a limb and say the oil industry is already nationalized.
> 
> It's become pretty obvious now that the government will financially back stop big companies in the event that they face bankruptcy.  So if Exxon makes a bunch of stupid mistakes and loses their ass, our tax dollars will prop them up anyway.
> 
> This way, we don't actually have to CALL it nationalization.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^ this...
> 
> but then...
> 
> what's that Mussolini referred to as the perfect merger between the corporation and the state?
Click to expand...

Starts with F and ends with aggotry.  I mean ascism.


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## California Girl

Obama will fix it.

And, Obama said 'let there be light'. And so it was done.


----------



## spectrumc01

editec said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> SOME things that governmenht do, they do very well.
> 
> I do not think that nationaling the assets of oil compnaies is remotely a good idea, though.
> 
> There might be one way to test that theory, though., and no nationalization of private peroperty is necessary
> 
> The USA still owns plenty of land and offshore locations where there's oil.
> 
> Instead of selling the right to drill to a private company, let the government try to set up its own oil company.
> 
> I suspect that the oil won't be brought up out of the ground any more chearply than the private companies do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down. Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Would it?
> 
> Are you absolutely sure about that?
> 
> Why?
> 
> Show us the numbers and how the government would insure that there was enough energy and how they would fairly share it.
Click to expand...


To think that government  can't run the energy sector means several things.  One every politician that ever gets elected is out to screw the American population by running energy into the ground effectively destroying America.  Or you believe that the government is an evil entity that is out for our destruction.  Or you believe that the greed inherent in man is so strong that there is no way someone with that much power is trustworthy.  Is that what you are thinking when you say the government can't possibly run our energy sector?  If this is the case revolution is our only option, because our government is beyond repair or salvation.  I would like to think otherwise, and let them prove revolution is the only option.


----------



## idb

spectrumc01 said:


> Mr. H. said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would make more sense for us all to become Amish.
> Cheaper too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Amish will eventually be our downfall...but that is another thread
Click to expand...


Fantastic!
Where's that thread?


----------



## idb

spectrumc01 said:


> FuelRod said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> an inept government or a handful of people running the oil industry bent on making as much money as possible all the while turning their heads to problems their greed is causing.  Or the other handfull of people who run opec who hate us?  I still believe that the govenment energy is the way to go as a matter of national security.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The solution is right at your fingertips.
> All your Government needs to do is allow for more domestic production.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> more domestic production will not lower prices significanly enough.  Look at any of your bills, do they ever go down? they say the rate stays the same because blah,blah,blah(pick any lame ass excuse).  It will be the same for gas, history proves it.
Click to expand...


Ok then, what about subsidising the industry through tax breaks?
Surely then prices will come down?


----------



## spectrumc01

idb said:


> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FuelRod said:
> 
> 
> 
> The solution is right at your fingertips.
> All your Government needs to do is allow for more domestic production.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more domestic production will not lower prices significanly enough.  Look at any of your bills, do they ever go down? they say the rate stays the same because blah,blah,blah(pick any lame ass excuse).  It will be the same for gas, history proves it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Ok then, what about subsidising the industry through tax breaks?
> Surely then prices will come down?
Click to expand...


Look at your bills, nothing comes down, there is always an excuse.  If the government runs it we can look at the books, under the freedom of information act if we really need to.  We can decide how best to run it.  Let the people be active in their government, we have the technology.  Are we as Americans that untrustable that we can't trust one another to hold votes on line?  Everyone has a SS#, and access to the public library if needed.  This would be just too easy to do.


----------



## Quantum Windbag

spectrumc01 said:


> editec said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spectrumc01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> by nationalizing, the prices would absolutely go, down because if we the people being the govenment decide that oil needs to break even and the government doesn't need to make a profit then the price will definitally go down. Gas will become cheaper when it comes to the profit margin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would it?
> 
> Are you absolutely sure about that?
> 
> Why?
> 
> Show us the numbers and how the government would insure that there was enough energy and how they would fairly share it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To think that government  can't run the energy sector means several things.  One every politician that ever gets elected is out to screw the American population by running energy into the ground effectively destroying America.  Or you believe that the government is an evil entity that is out for our destruction.  Or you believe that the greed inherent in man is so strong that there is no way someone with that much power is trustworthy.  Is that what you are thinking when you say the government can't possibly run our energy sector?  If this is the case revolution is our only option, because our government is beyond repair or salvation.  I would like to think otherwise, and let them prove revolution is the only option.
Click to expand...


To answer the points you think you are making.


Most politicians are out only to line their own pockets. They might not be out to ruin the economy, but they are not out to help it either.
The government is controlled by a bunch of people out to make themselves richer in the short term. That does not make the government evil, but it doesn't make them good either.
Power corrupts. If you doubt that look at Obama.


----------

