# Public Schools & Teachers  WTF



## American_Jihad

Cheating by teachers and administrators in the 55,000-student Atlanta ...



*Paper reports standardized test insecurity among states in U.S.*​
Associated Press
Posted: Sunday, September 30, 2012

ATLANTA  The federal government has no standards to protect the integrity of the achievement tests it requires in tens of thousands of public schools, and test security among the states is so inconsistent that Americans cant be sure those all-important test scores are legitimate, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.

The newspaper surveyed the 50 state education departments and found that many states do not use basic test security measures designed to prevent cheating. And nearly half the states, the newspaper found, make almost no attempt to screen test results for irregularities.

That kind of lax oversight contributed to the cheating scandal that swept Atlanta schools in 2009, the newspaper said in a story that appeared online Saturday. Evidence of widespread cheating is now emerging in Philadelphia, Columbus, Ohio, El Paso, Texas, and other cities around the country. The Journal-Constitution reported earlier this year that it had found patterns of suspicious changes in test scores in nearly 200 school districts nationwide.

---
A teacher at a Phoenix elementary school, for example, told a colleague that shed used red and green M&Ms during a test to nudge students toward the right answers. If she set a red M&M on a childs desk, that signaled the pupil had the wrong answer and should do the problem over again. If she put a green one on the desk, that meant the child had the right answer and should move on.

---

Paper reports standardized test insecurity among states in U.S. | The Eagle | Bryan/College Station, Texas - The Eagle


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## blimpo

When you create a three day test where the careers of people are on the line and 9 year olds are being judged you will have cheating.

The concerns over test scores are at the point of phobias.

I heard where one teacher was riding by baseball fields where kids this age were having baseball practice at 9:30 pm (after a full day of testing with tests again the next day) and was almost arrested for trying to run everyone off the field so the kids would have plenty of sleep for the coming tests.

Crazy testing will create crazy situations.


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## EdwardBaiamonte

blimpo said:


> When you create a three day test where the careers of people are on the line and 9 year olds are being judged you will have cheating.
> 
> The concerns over test scores are at the point of phobias.
> 
> I heard where one teacher was riding by baseball fields where kids this age were having baseball practice at 9:30 pm (after a full day of testing with tests again the next day) and was almost arrested for trying to run everyone off the field so the kids would have plenty of sleep for the coming tests.
> 
> Crazy testing will create crazy situations.



yes the liberal unions would love to eliminate testing so they would have no responsibility for getting results!!

In fact they would love to eliminate work for most Americans so we all  could live off the rich!!


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## Skull Pilot

I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.


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## EdwardBaiamonte

Skull Pilot said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.




the sad thing is that education cant be outsourced so liberal Democrat unions are dominant in the educational industry and causing the usual destruction that they caused in other industries before international competition exposed the second rate work they were doing.

It was one thing, however,  when Democrats allowed unions to destroy our manufacturing industries but it is another when Democrats allow their liberal unions to destroy our children!!


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## blimpo

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the sad thing is that education cant be outsourced so liberal Democrat unions are dominant in the educational industry and causing the usual destruction that they caused in other industries before international competition exposed the second rate work they were doing.
> 
> It was one thing, however,  when Democrats allowed unions to destroy our manufacturing industries but it is another when Democrats allow their liberal unions to destroy our children!!
Click to expand...




You're absolutely ridiculous...


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## Jackson

I have always thought that the teachers and administration should not see the test until the day they give it.  And a proctor should be in the room giving instructions and monitoring during testing and take the tests afterwards.

It sounds expensive, but teams for testing would last one month besides three days on training.  We have wasted that much money on studying why monkeys sweat and GSA outings.

Graduate students could be monitors and could be used for this duty as well.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

Throw all of these standardized tests out the fucking window.  The feds have no business being involved in public education.  It has generally been and should remain a local matter.


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## Jackson

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Throw all of these standardized tests out the fucking window.  The feds have no business being involved in public education.  It has generally been and should remain a local matter.



No.  We have to evaluate how well the educational systems are working.  When states make up their own tests, they are watered down to show the best possible outcome.  We need nationally normed tests.


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## regent

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the sad thing is that education cant be outsourced so liberal Democrat unions are dominant in the educational industry and causing the usual destruction that they caused in other industries before international competition exposed the second rate work they were doing.
> 
> It was one thing, however,  when Democrats allowed unions to destroy our manufacturing industries but it is another when Democrats allow their liberal unions to destroy our children!!
Click to expand...


So five states do not allow teacher unions, Georgia, North and south Carolina, Texas and Virginia. The schools in those states must be setting the scores on fire, and how can schools in other states even try to compete with those five states? Might want to check their scores?


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## Samson

Skull Pilot said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.





There's no fucking way I would pay the state to babysit everyone elses kid while I sweat it out at home with mine.

Plus, I have a job.


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## Dont Taz Me Bro

regent said:


> So five states do not allow teacher unions, Georgia, North and south Carolina, Texas and Virginia. The schools in those states must be setting the scores on fire, and how can schools in other states even try to compete with those five states? Might want to check their scores?



Sure.  There is no correlation whatsoever.

Report Card on American Education | ALEC &#8211; American Legislative Exchange Council


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## Wiseacre

The only way I can see out of this is more competition from charter and private schools.   That, and reduce the power of public school teacher unions.   It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids.


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## Samson

Wiseacre said:


> The only way I can see out of this is more competition from charter and private schools.   That, and reduce the power of public school teacher unions.   It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids.



Then you need to look at the link DTMB posted;

Report Card on American Education | ALEC &#8211; American Legislative Exchange Council

This is an excellent resource.

The only common denominator I see between states ranking high vs low is the ratio of wealthy residents to population. The higher proportion of residents who are in the 1% the better the school system of the state seems to be.


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## blimpo

Wiseacre said:


> The only way I can see out of this is more competition from charter and private schools.   That, and reduce the power of public school teacher unions.   It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids.




True.

The only reason they go into teaching is to become rich and drive $100,000 sports cars.


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## blimpo

Samson said:


> The only common denominator I see between states ranking high vs low is the ratio of wealthy residents to population. The higher proportion of residents who are in the 1% the better the school system of the state seems to be.





Yet all the experts, politicians, and idiots calling teachers failures cannot see a common thread running through here?


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## PixieStix

Samson said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no fucking way I would pay the state to babysit everyone elses kid while I sweat it out at home with mine.
> 
> Plus, I have a job.
Click to expand...


Yeah but the stats are striking
Statistics on Public School Vs. Homeschool

Two major studies have assessed academic achievement in homeschooling. The first study,Strengths of Their Own: Homeschoolers Across America was conducted in 1997 and followed more than 5,000 homeschoolers from over 1,600 families. The study showed homeschoolers typically academically outperformed children receiving a public education on standardized tests by approximately 30 to 35 percentile points in all subject areas.

In the second, the Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) commissioned a study drawing data for the 2007-2008 school year from multiple standardized testing services. *Once again, the national average percentile scores were higher in all subject areas by at least 34 percentile points, and as high as 39 percentile points*. Factors such as parental college degrees, how much parents spent on education, level of state regulation, and sex of the students made little difference in the range of scores in all areas among the homeschooled children.


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## blimpo

Discipline--Homeschool teachers do have control over their students, not unlike the discipline teachers had that has now been taken away.

Unlike many public school students, homeschool students have parents that care..


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## gallantwarrior

Jackson said:


> I have always thought that the teachers and administration should not see the test until the day they give it.  And a proctor should be in the room giving instructions and monitoring during testing and take the tests afterwards.
> 
> It sounds expensive, but teams for testing would last one month besides three days on training.  We have wasted that much money on studying why monkeys sweat and GSA outings.
> 
> Graduate students could be monitors and could be used for this duty as well.



The teachers don't need to see the tests at all.  If you have proctors to administer the tests, the teachers don't even need to be in the classroom while the test is taken.


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## gallantwarrior

blimpo said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only way I can see out of this is more competition from charter and private schools.   That, and reduce the power of public school teacher unions.   It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> The only reason they go into teaching is to become rich and drive $100,000 sports cars.
Click to expand...


Nope.  Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, teach PhysEd.


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## blimpo

gallantwarrior said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only way I can see out of this is more competition from charter and private schools.   That, and reduce the power of public school teacher unions.   It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> The only reason they go into teaching is to become rich and drive $100,000 sports cars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope.  Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, teach PhysEd.
Click to expand...



But some who can do begin to teach when they witness how pathetic many are around them.


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## gallantwarrior

blimpo said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> The only reason they go into teaching is to become rich and drive $100,000 sports cars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.  Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, teach PhysEd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But some who can do begin to teach when they witness how pathetic many are around them.
Click to expand...


Well, that is true in some cases.  It's why I home-schooled my daughter.  I teach at the university now because I love to share the things I've learned.  
I do not know why many people get into teaching, but it seems that too many have unfortunately chosen a profession for which they have little talent and less aptitude.


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## American_Jihad

*California Public School Teacher and Dominatrix Announces the Plan to Go Topless*

By Chances Press, LLC

Chances Press, LLC 
Last modified: 2012-10-15T16:49:21Z

LAS VEGAS, Oct. 15, 2012 -- /PRNewswire/ -- After creating an Internet buzz in both the U.S. and the U.K. following the release of her memoir, "Playing Darlene: The True Double Life of a Public School Teacher & Professional Dominatrix," author Darlene announced her next controversial venture, her intention to pose topless within the pages of her next book.

---

California Public School Teacher and Dominatrix Announces the Plan to Go Topless - PR Newswire - The Sacramento Bee


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## gallantwarrior

American_Jihad said:


> *California Public School Teacher and Dominatrix Announces the Plan to Go Topless*
> 
> By Chances Press, LLC
> 
> Chances Press, LLC
> Last modified: 2012-10-15T16:49:21Z
> 
> LAS VEGAS, Oct. 15, 2012 -- /PRNewswire/ -- After creating an Internet buzz in both the U.S. and the U.K. following the release of her memoir, "Playing Darlene: The True Double Life of a Public School Teacher & Professional Dominatrix," author Darlene announced her next controversial venture, her intention to pose topless within the pages of her next book.
> 
> ---
> 
> California Public School Teacher and Dominatrix Announces the Plan to Go Topless - PR Newswire - The Sacramento Bee



I guess they don't pay school teachers so well in Cali.  Poor dame was probably forced to take up her second job.  At least she enjoys her night job...


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## sarahedson

You can earn a High School Diploma at home, participating in a program that is designed specifically for homeschoolers. Discuss action steps that are required for the collection you pass online. Introduced a note on the right side of the road with a copy to provide tips for online High School Diploma, you can use the test. High School Diploma at home is a boon to those students who have learning and physical disabilities that prevent them from attending school. With the popularity of online schools, teaching and take tests online and a  exam contacts to prepare for the intensive program is a good way. The student can be taught outside the classroom by a parent or by expert instructors. Comfort, convenience, flexibility and privacy are the advantages of High School Diploma in the source program. There are many options, which look like a professional and seem to offer a genuine high school diploma, but in reality, they are scams. In correspondence course students interact with their supervisors by mail or e-mail messages. Telecourses are video-based lessons that help students learn from the comfort of their room.


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## rosends

I don't know much about homeschooling but it would appear that there are some variables at play which would prevent accurate comparison between testing scores of public school and home schooled students:

1. parental involvement is higher for home schooled students and is reflected in the decision to homeschool and in the ability of the parent to be present to teach content or secure other teachers having been personally vetted.
2. economics -- home schooling requires a sizable investment of time and money so the sample who homeschool might have access to better resources (it is easier to take 2 kids to the museum than 40)
3. skill level -- public schools have a wide range of students and accept all applicants (in most situations). Homeschools "accept" a very limited range of student and can address student needs with a lower student to teacher ratio.

can we compare results on standardized testing knowing that the populations, resources and methods will be so strikingly different?


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## American_Jihad

rosends said:


> I don't know much about homeschooling but it would appear that there are some variables at play which would prevent accurate comparison between testing scores of public school and home schooled students:
> 
> 1. parental involvement is higher for home schooled students and is reflected in the decision to homeschool and in the ability of the parent to be present to teach content or secure other teachers having been personally vetted.
> 2. economics -- home schooling requires a sizable investment of time and money so the sample who homeschool might have access to better resources (it is easier to take 2 kids to the museum than 40)
> 3. skill level -- public schools have a wide range of students and accept all applicants (in most situations). Homeschools "accept" a very limited range of student and can address student needs with a lower student to teacher ratio.
> 
> can we compare results on standardized testing knowing that the populations, resources and methods will be so strikingly different?



Check out what the French socialist are going to do...
http://www.usmessageboard.com/europe/255821-french-socialists.html


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## rosends

American_Jihad said:


> rosends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know much about homeschooling but it would appear that there are some variables at play which would prevent accurate comparison between testing scores of public school and home schooled students:
> 
> 1. parental involvement is higher for home schooled students and is reflected in the decision to homeschool and in the ability of the parent to be present to teach content or secure other teachers having been personally vetted.
> 2. economics -- home schooling requires a sizable investment of time and money so the sample who homeschool might have access to better resources (it is easier to take 2 kids to the museum than 40)
> 3. skill level -- public schools have a wide range of students and accept all applicants (in most situations). Homeschools "accept" a very limited range of student and can address student needs with a lower student to teacher ratio.
> 
> can we compare results on standardized testing knowing that the populations, resources and methods will be so strikingly different?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out what the French socialist are going to do...
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/europe/255821-french-socialists.html
Click to expand...


I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Just another reason I won't take my cues from the French. Sure, they make good fries and toast, and that kissing thing was pretty cool, but not much after that...


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## American_Jihad

rosends said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rosends said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know much about homeschooling but it would appear that there are some variables at play which would prevent accurate comparison between testing scores of public school and home schooled students:
> 
> 1. parental involvement is higher for home schooled students and is reflected in the decision to homeschool and in the ability of the parent to be present to teach content or secure other teachers having been personally vetted.
> 2. economics -- home schooling requires a sizable investment of time and money so the sample who homeschool might have access to better resources (it is easier to take 2 kids to the museum than 40)
> 3. skill level -- public schools have a wide range of students and accept all applicants (in most situations). Homeschools "accept" a very limited range of student and can address student needs with a lower student to teacher ratio.
> 
> can we compare results on standardized testing knowing that the populations, resources and methods will be so strikingly different?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out what the French socialist are going to do...
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/europe/255821-french-socialists.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Just another reason I won't take my cues from the French. Sure, they make good fries and toast, and that kissing thing was pretty cool, but not much after that...
Click to expand...


That will spread to other things, like hey not every dog has an owner so you better not play with your dog in the back yard...

Could be coming to a gubment near you----VOTE...


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## Samson

PixieStix said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no fucking way I would pay the state to babysit everyone elses kid while I sweat it out at home with mine.
> 
> Plus, I have a job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah but the stats are striking
> Statistics on Public School Vs. Homeschool
> 
> Two major studies have assessed academic achievement in homeschooling. The first study,Strengths of Their Own: Homeschoolers Across America was conducted in 1997 and followed more than 5,000 homeschoolers from over 1,600 families. The study showed homeschoolers typically academically outperformed children receiving a public education on standardized tests by approximately 30 to 35 percentile points in all subject areas.
> 
> In the second, the Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) commissioned a study drawing data for the 2007-2008 school year from multiple standardized testing services. *Once again, the national average percentile scores were higher in all subject areas by at least 34 percentile points, and as high as 39 percentile points*. Factors such as parental college degrees, how much parents spent on education, level of state regulation, and sex of the students made little difference in the range of scores in all areas among the homeschooled children.
Click to expand...


Two studies by Homeschool Organizations show that Homeschooling is beneficial?



Are you kidding11??: Color me Shocked.


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## Samson

American_Jihad said:


> *California Public School Teacher and Dominatrix Announces the Plan to Go Topless*
> 
> By Chances Press, LLC
> 
> Chances Press, LLC
> Last modified: 2012-10-15T16:49:21Z
> 
> LAS VEGAS, Oct. 15, 2012 -- /PRNewswire/ -- After creating an Internet buzz in both the U.S. and the U.K. following the release of her memoir, "Playing Darlene: The True Double Life of a Public School Teacher & Professional Dominatrix," author Darlene announced her next controversial venture, her intention to pose topless within the pages of her next book.
> 
> ---
> 
> California Public School Teacher and Dominatrix Announces the Plan to Go Topless - PR Newswire - The Sacramento Bee




Only one teacher?





I'm guessing the issue is that too few teachers take this option to enhance take-home pay.


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## blimpo

Samson said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *California Public School Teacher and Dominatrix Announces the Plan to Go Topless*
> 
> By Chances Press, LLC
> 
> Chances Press, LLC
> Last modified: 2012-10-15T16:49:21Z
> 
> LAS VEGAS, Oct. 15, 2012 -- /PRNewswire/ -- After creating an Internet buzz in both the U.S. and the U.K. following the release of her memoir, "Playing Darlene: The True Double Life of a Public School Teacher & Professional Dominatrix," author Darlene announced her next controversial venture, her intention to pose topless within the pages of her next book.
> 
> ---
> 
> California Public School Teacher and Dominatrix Announces the Plan to Go Topless - PR Newswire - The Sacramento Bee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only one teacher?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the issue is that too few teachers take this option to enhance take-home pay.
Click to expand...




If she lives in LA she might now be able to afford a small apartment...


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## EdwardBaiamonte

blimpo said:


> Discipline--Homeschool teachers do have control over their students, not unlike the discipline teachers had that has now been taken away.



you mean taken away by liberals!!



blimpo said:


> Unlike many public school students, homeschool students have parents that care..



you mean  to say the liberal unions don't care!


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## blimpo

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Discipline--Homeschool teachers do have control over their students, not unlike the discipline teachers had that has now been taken away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you mean taken away by liberals!!
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike many public school students, homeschool students have parents that care..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you mean  to say the liberal unions don't care!
Click to expand...



I imagine they would if they could.

As of now, I don't know of one liberal union that has given birth...


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## EdwardBaiamonte

blimpo said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Discipline--Homeschool teachers do have control over their students, not unlike the discipline teachers had that has now been taken away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you mean taken away by liberals!!
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unlike many public school students, homeschool students have parents that care..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you mean  to say the liberal unions don't care!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine they would if they could.
> 
> As of now, I don't know of one liberal union that has given birth.
Click to expand...


if they could?? If their jobs depended on results as in the Republican private sector they would care, instantly. It's a simple point that a government loving liberal will lack the IQ to understand.


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## blimpo

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> you mean taken away by liberals!!
> 
> 
> 
> you mean  to say the liberal unions don't care!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine they would if they could.
> 
> As of now, I don't know of one liberal union that has given birth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's a simple point that a government loving liberal will lack the IQ to understand.
Click to expand...



It's Stereotype Boy!


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## EdwardBaiamonte

blimpo said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine they would if they could.
> 
> As of now, I don't know of one liberal union that has given birth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a simple point that a government loving liberal will lack the IQ to understand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It's Stereotype Boy!
Click to expand...


If their teacher jobs depended on results as in the Republican private sector they would care, instantly. It's a simple point that a government loving liberal will lack the IQ to understand.


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## Samson

blimpo said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *California Public School Teacher and Dominatrix Announces the Plan to Go Topless*
> 
> By Chances Press, LLC
> 
> Chances Press, LLC
> Last modified: 2012-10-15T16:49:21Z
> 
> LAS VEGAS, Oct. 15, 2012 -- /PRNewswire/ -- After creating an Internet buzz in both the U.S. and the U.K. following the release of her memoir, "Playing Darlene: The True Double Life of a Public School Teacher & Professional Dominatrix," author Darlene announced her next controversial venture, her intention to pose topless within the pages of her next book.
> 
> ---
> 
> California Public School Teacher and Dominatrix Announces the Plan to Go Topless - PR Newswire - The Sacramento Bee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only one teacher?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the issue is that too few teachers take this option to enhance take-home pay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she lives in LA she might now be able to afford a small apartment...
Click to expand...


Indeed, I am sure many are walking the streets.


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## 4Horsemen

Now let's put this all in context shall we?

Of all the schools and teachers that are suspected and caught of cheating or helpijng the students cheat, How many of those schools, teachers and admins were more that 50% Asian/Hindu/etc of the student body/staff...??

Because little do most Americans know, test answers,etc.. are literally GIVEN to Foreigners in this country under the guise of "Enrichment Programs".  as a means to integrate them into our society faster. call it a free ride if you will. 

It's no wonder an Asian kid can come to America at age 5 and be fluent in english and proficient in Math by age 17. It's by design. These kids are pampered and "propped up" and the Average American parent is none the wiser to what's going on right under their noses.


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## Unkotare

4Horsemen said:


> Because little do most Americans know, test answers,etc.. are literally GIVEN to Foreigners in this country under the guise of "Enrichment Programs".  as a means to integrate them into our society faster. call it a free ride if you will.
> 
> It's no wonder an Asian kid can come to America at age 5 and be fluent in english and proficient in Math by age 17. It's by design. These kids are pampered and "propped up" and the Average American parent is none the wiser to what's going on right under their noses.




No, idiot, your ignorant, fevered little conspiracy theory won't work here either. One more time: YOU ARE WRONG. Damn, you're fucking stupid.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx7Z5B3wWmE&NR=1&feature=endscreen]Just when I think you&#39;ve said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin&#39; - YouTube[/ame]


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## 4Horsemen

Unkotare said:


> 4Horsemen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because little do most Americans know, test answers,etc.. are literally GIVEN to Foreigners in this country under the guise of "Enrichment Programs".  as a means to integrate them into our society faster. call it a free ride if you will.
> 
> It's no wonder an Asian kid can come to America at age 5 and be fluent in english and proficient in Math by age 17. It's by design. These kids are pampered and "propped up" and the Average American parent is none the wiser to what's going on right under their noses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, idiot, your ignorant, fevered little conspiracy theory won't work here either. One more time: YOU ARE WRONG. Damn, you're fucking stupid.
> 
> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx7Z5B3wWmE&NR=1&feature=endscreen]Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin' - YouTube[/ame]
Click to expand...


Bitch, chasing me around this site trying to say I'm wrong don't mean I'm wrong. I've posted breadcrumbs for your dumbass to follow, now go follow them and find out for yourself, you tired ass psycho fucker you.


----------



## Unkotare

4Horsemen said:


> chasing me around this site trying to say I'm wrong don't mean I'm wrong.





It turns out you're wrong anyway, you ignorant little shit.


----------



## beagle9

Wiseacre said:


> The only way I can see out of this is more competition from charter and private schools.   That, and reduce the power of public school teacher unions.   It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids.


And this is also the case through out government, so don't stop there.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

beagle9 said:


> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only way I can see out of this is more competition from charter and private schools.   That, and reduce the power of public school teacher unions.   It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> And this is also the case through out government, so don't stop there.
Click to expand...


Sadly, the people just stopped there by electing Barry again.


----------



## Samson

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only way I can see out of this is more competition from charter and private schools.   That, and reduce the power of public school teacher unions.   It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> And this is also the case through out government, so don't stop there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sadly, the people just stopped there by electing Barry again.
Click to expand...




Huh?

WTF does the presidential election have to do with this thread?

Obama was prez when Wisconsin weakened teacher unions. The States, not the Feds, are responsible for either allowing teacher unions to exist or not. Regardless, there is very little correlation between academic achievement and whether a teaching union exists.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Students Forced to Stand for 'Black National Anthem'*

12/6/12
Selwyn Duke


Students at Capital High School (CHS) in Charleston, West Virginia have been regularly forced to stand during the playing of a song known as "The Black National Anthem."

The song, "Lift Every Voice and Sing," was played in the morning right after the American national anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance, and students were forced to stand for all three. While the law currently states that no child can be compelled to stand for any kind of pledge, controversy only arose at CHS after two students and a parent complained about having to stand for the "Black National Anthem" (BNA).

To make matters worse, Clinton Giles, the black principal of CHS who made the requirement, allegedly ridiculed a child for his refusal to stand during the BNA. As the Daily Mail (the link to the original article is no longer valid) wrote:

---

Read more: Blog: Students Forced to Stand for 'Black National Anthem'


----------



## beagle9

American_Jihad said:


> *Students Forced to Stand for 'Black National Anthem'*
> 
> 12/6/12
> Selwyn Duke
> 
> 
> Students at Capital High School (CHS) in Charleston, West Virginia have been regularly forced to stand during the playing of a song known as "The Black National Anthem."
> 
> The song, "Lift Every Voice and Sing," was played in the morning right after the American national anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance, and students were forced to stand for all three. While the law currently states that no child can be compelled to stand for any kind of pledge, controversy only arose at CHS after two students and a parent complained about having to stand for the "Black National Anthem" (BNA).
> 
> To make matters worse, Clinton Giles, the black principal of CHS who made the requirement, allegedly ridiculed a child for his refusal to stand during the BNA. As the Daily Mail (the link to the original article is no longer valid) wrote:
> 
> ---
> 
> Read more: Blog: Students Forced to Stand for 'Black National Anthem'


We must *all* become Americans, as in one nation, color blind, living under God with liberty and justice for all, and we should do this all under one flag or it's not going to end well for all of us I don't think, and this because of us continually being offended and seperated in these ways in America now, and it is all being done by the radicals and racist whom seemingly are getting stronger and stronger these days in America.


----------



## squeeze berry

American_Jihad said:


> *Students Forced to Stand for 'Black National Anthem'*
> 
> 12/6/12
> Selwyn Duke
> 
> 
> Students at Capital High School (CHS) in Charleston, West Virginia have been regularly forced to stand during the playing of a song known as "The Black National Anthem."
> 
> The song, "Lift Every Voice and Sing," was played in the morning right after the American national anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance, and students were forced to stand for all three. While the law currently states that no child can be compelled to stand for any kind of pledge, controversy only arose at CHS after two students and a parent complained about having to stand for the "Black National Anthem" (BNA).
> 
> To make matters worse, Clinton Giles, the black principal of CHS who made the requirement, allegedly ridiculed a child for his refusal to stand during the BNA. As the Daily Mail (the link to the original article is no longer valid) wrote:
> 
> ---
> 
> Read more: Blog: Students Forced to Stand for 'Black National Anthem'



holy shit  ^


----------



## Too Tall

regent said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the sad thing is that education cant be outsourced so liberal Democrat unions are dominant in the educational industry and causing the usual destruction that they caused in other industries before international competition exposed the second rate work they were doing.
> 
> It was one thing, however,  when Democrats allowed unions to destroy our manufacturing industries but it is another when Democrats allow their liberal unions to destroy our children!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *So five states do not allow teacher unions, Georgia*, North and south Carolina, Texas and Virginia. The schools in those states must be setting the scores on fire, and how can schools in other states even try to compete with those five states? Might want to check their scores?
Click to expand...


Really?



> ATLANTA--The state's largest teacher's union is refusing to endorse incumbent legislators who supported the governor's education reform commission -- including union past president and state Sen. Faye Smith of Milledgeville.
> 
> "That is a reflection of our dissatisfaction with their voting record for teachers last year," said *Ralph Noble, newly elected president of the 35,000-member Georgia Association of Educators (GAE).*


----------



## 4Horsemen

4Horsemen said:


> Now let's put this all in context shall we?
> 
> Of all the schools and teachers that are suspected and caught of cheating or helpijng the students cheat, How many of those schools, teachers and admins were more that 50% Asian/Hindu/etc of the student body/staff...??
> 
> Because little do most Americans know, test answers,etc.. are literally GIVEN to Foreigners in this country under the guise of "Enrichment Programs".  as a means to integrate them into our society faster. call it a free ride if you will.
> 
> It's no wonder an Asian kid can come to America at age 5 and be fluent in english and proficient in Math by age 17. It's by design. These kids are pampered and "propped up" and the Average American parent is none the wiser to what's going on right under their noses.



All within context


----------



## Unkotare

4Horsemen said:


> 4Horsemen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now let's put this all in context shall we?
> 
> Of all the schools and teachers that are suspected and caught of cheating or helpijng the students cheat, How many of those schools, teachers and admins were more that 50% Asian/Hindu/etc of the student body/staff...??
> 
> Because little do most Americans know, test answers,etc.. are literally GIVEN to Foreigners in this country under the guise of "Enrichment Programs".  as a means to integrate them into our society faster. call it a free ride if you will.
> 
> It's no wonder an Asian kid can come to America at age 5 and be fluent in english and proficient in Math by age 17. It's by design. These kids are pampered and "propped up" and the Average American parent is none the wiser to what's going on right under their noses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All within context
Click to expand...




So, you're still an ignorant, punk-ass little pothead whose weak little mind is eagerly drawn to the most asinine conspiracy theories? Got it.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Dishonest Educators*


January 9, 2013 
By Walter Williams

...

Recently, The Atlanta Journal-Constitutions blog carried a story titled A new cheating scandal: Aspiring teachers hiring ringers. According to the story, for at least 15 years, teachers in Arkansas, Mississippi and Tennessee paid Clarence Mumford, whos now under indictment, between $1,500 and $3,000 to send someone else to take their Praxis exam, which is used for K-12 teacher certification in 40 states. Sandra Stotsky, an education professor at the University of Arkansas, said, (Praxis I) is an easy test for anyone who has completed high school but has nothing to do with college-level ability or scores. She added, The test is far too undemanding for a prospective teacher.  The fact that these people hired somebody to take an easy test of their skills suggests that these prospective teachers were probably so academically weak it is questionable whether they would have been suitable teachers.

...

Dishonest Educators


----------



## idb

Good grief!!!
And people want to arm these idiots and put them in front of their kids!!!??
Unbelieveable!!!!!!


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

idb said:


> Good grief!!!
> And people want to arm these idiots and put them in front of their kids!!!??
> Unbelieveable!!!!!!



how smart do you have to be to shoot a lunatic who is about to shoot you?

the sad thing is that education can't be outsourced so liberal Democrat unions are dominant in the educational industry and causing the usual destruction that they caused in other industries before international competition exposed the second rate work they were doing.

It was one thing, however, when Democrats allowed unions to destroy our manufacturing industries but it is another when Democrats allow their liberal unions to destroy our children!!


----------



## initforme

If we are going to use a federal test to test kids then the teachers should be told exactly what concepts are going to be tested upon.  As a parent if my kid is taking a test they should know exactly what concepts are going to be on the test.   It is the duty of the party forcing the kids to take the test to tell the kids and parents exactly what will be on the test.  As a parent i can help work with my kid on those concepts.  How do I know exactly what to study if I am not told what kind of problems are going to be on the test or what rote memorization facts I need to memorize if I am not told these are going to be on the test?  The whole thing makes absolutely no sense and the punish a good teacher because a kid scored low on one test is frankly dumb.


----------



## American_Jihad

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> idb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief!!!
> And people want to arm these idiots and put them in front of their kids!!!??
> Unbelieveable!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> how smart do you have to be to shoot a lunatic who is about to shoot you?
> 
> the sad thing is that education can't be outsourced so liberal Democrat unions are dominant in the educational industry and causing the usual destruction that they caused in other industries before international competition exposed the second rate work they were doing.
> 
> It was one thing, however, when Democrats allowed unions to destroy our manufacturing industries but it is another when Democrats allow their liberal unions to destroy our children!!
Click to expand...


----------



## Samson

Skull Pilot said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.



While I appreciate the sentiment, this is much easier said than done.


----------



## RightNorLeft

I read through this thread, theres alot of posters that have added to it...some have totally denigrated public education....so I have to ask...just how many of you have come from public education ? and how many were home schooled or went to  private paid schools...
   For those that came from public education especially the CONSERVATIVES...are you morons ?   were you indoctrinated to be liberals ? I dont think so...so what you can get from that is...public education depends alot on the PARENTS and the area....public education in beverly hills is going to be better than bed sty in NYC...wouldnt you agree ?


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

yada said:


> For those that came from public education especially the CONSERVATIVES...are you morons ?   were you indoctrinated to be liberals ? I dont think so..



dear, the point is, many were and are.





yada said:


> .so what you can get from that is...public education depends alot on the PARENTS



certainly conservative parents can help but the liberal state has an open campaign to separate kids from parents so they get a proper liberal education. Stalin and Hitler did this as well.   



yada said:


> and the area....public education in beverly hills is going to be better than bed sty in NYC...wouldnt you agree ?



sure, and??????????????????????????


----------



## Unkotare

Samson said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I appreciate the sentiment, this is much easier said than done.
Click to expand...



I know, especially considering that no woman would ever give Skull the time of day.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Samson said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no fucking way I would pay the state to babysit everyone elses kid while I sweat it out at home with mine.
> 
> Plus, I have a job.
Click to expand...




Costs me time and money to homeschool....

.....best investment I've ever made.


----------



## Samson

PoliticalChic said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no fucking way I would pay the state to babysit everyone elses kid while I sweat it out at home with mine.
> 
> Plus, I have a job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Costs me time and money to homeschool....
> 
> .....best investment I've ever made.
Click to expand...


We know it costs....

but you'll really never know if it was a good investment.

The only way to know would be to have identical twins and send one to public school and homeschool the other, then give both an ACT test, then wait to see if either ends up in prison.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Samson said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no fucking way I would pay the state to babysit everyone elses kid while I sweat it out at home with mine.
> 
> Plus, I have a job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Costs me time and money to homeschool....
> 
> .....best investment I've ever made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We know it costs....
> 
> but you'll really never know if it was a good investment.
> 
> The only way to know would be to have identical twins and send one to public school and homeschool the other, then give both an ACT test, then wait to see if either ends up in prison.
Click to expand...


Nonsense.

Not only am I able to see the differences, but when they are with other children, even other adults comment....my older one has won several poetry contests.

They have interests, aren't turned off to learning.

That's one of the values.


----------



## Samson

PoliticalChic said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Costs me time and money to homeschool....
> 
> .....best investment I've ever made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We know it costs....
> 
> but you'll really never know if it was a good investment.
> 
> The only way to know would be to have identical twins and send one to public school and homeschool the other, then give both an ACT test, then wait to see if either ends up in prison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Not only am I able to see the differences, but when they are with other children, even other adults comment....my older one has won several poetry contests.
> 
> They have interests, aren't turned off to learning.
> 
> That's one of the values.
Click to expand...


You can delude yourself into believing home schooling made a huge difference, but you'll never know if they could have done just as well in public school.

I suppose, like the Federal Government, after you've made the expenditure, you must justify it.



Based on your conservative politics, I find this karma very ironic.


----------



## beagle9

yada said:


> I read through this thread, theres alot of posters that have added to it...some have totally denigrated public education....so I have to ask...just how many of you have come from public education ? and how many were home schooled or went to  private paid schools...
> For those that came from public education especially the CONSERVATIVES...are you morons ?   were you indoctrinated to be liberals ? I dont think so...so what you can get from that is...public education depends alot on the PARENTS and the area....public education in beverly hills is going to be better than bed sty in NYC...wouldnt you agree ?


Morons ? Ummm Don't you realize that times are always a changing ? People came from public education yes, but many of them came from periods where public education was at it's best during their times, and it was being run by great people during their times, but then as time went by and public education began to utterly fail big time, and this for many families and their children, well sadly this is when we all lost track of it all., Now due to many known traggic factors being involved, ((where as one of them was that it was being taken over by true morons)), now we have what we have in this nation now, and it is all as a result of these bad characters/players involved, and these radical cultural changes in which we have experienced now as a result of. It has happened or is happening also in the communities all across America just as well, and it is crippling the well being of the family in America, thus producing what we have right now in America, yet no one knows the way out anymore ?

There is a way out, but the federal government has to get back out of the way or get it's self reformed from it's bad way of thinking before it can get straightened back out again, and until then we are all doomed to more and more future failures for our families and our children, and this will go right on and right on I do believe. The people must seperate from evil as best that it can, and that is the only way forward for this nation to get out of this mess that we keep getting ourselves into. I know, now the left will go and find every radical preacher and false prophet to use against the proper consideration that their is good and evil in this world, and that the people must go towards that which is good again, and not continue towards evil as they have been in these latter times that we all do live in currently.


----------



## beagle9

Samson said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no fucking way I would pay the state to babysit everyone elses kid while I sweat it out at home with mine.
> 
> Plus, I have a job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Costs me time and money to homeschool....
> 
> .....best investment I've ever made.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We know it costs....
> 
> but you'll really never know if it was a good investment.
> 
> The only way to know would be to have identical twins and send one to public school and homeschool the other, then give both an ACT test, then wait to see if either ends up in prison.
Click to expand...

No just look at the stats and woes of the public education system starting somewhere within the last 40 years or more now, and then bring it forward considering everything in the fall out that's been in it's wake since. The investment to seperate from it's wrath may be wort it, at least until we see big changes to come again for it all in a better way..

Oh and you figure that one will end up in prison in life, otherwise if they don't make the standardized grade ? That is profiling and discriminating language coming from a lefty ya know..


----------



## Samson

beagle9 said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Costs me time and money to homeschool....
> 
> .....best investment I've ever made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We know it costs....
> 
> but you'll really never know if it was a good investment.
> 
> The only way to know would be to have identical twins and send one to public school and homeschool the other, then give both an ACT test, then wait to see if either ends up in prison.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No just look at the stats and woes of the public education system starting somewhere within the last 40 years or more now, and then bring it forward considering everything in the fall out that's been in it's wake since. The investment to seperate from it's wrath may be wort it, at least until we see big changes to come again for it all in a better way..
> 
> Oh and you figure that one will end up in prison in life, otherwise if they don't make the standardized grade ? That is profiling and discriminating language coming from a lefty ya know..
Click to expand...


You are sadly mistaken, but it is a common mistake.

PC's children, or anyone else's children, do not attend "the public education system." They attend a school. Schools vary widely in quality. Therefore the "stat's and woes," of whatever your referring are irrelevant.

Only the statistics associated with a student's _*SPECIFIC SCHOOL*_ may have any relevance. Even then, it is possible for very intelligent students to do well regardless of wherever they are educated.

Statistically, those who do poorly in school, or, like yourself, are mildly mentally handicapped often are also incarcerated. The fact that this escapes your basic inventory of knowledge is not terribly surprising.


----------



## beagle9

Samson said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> We know it costs....
> 
> but you'll really never know if it was a good investment.
> 
> The only way to know would be to have identical twins and send one to public school and homeschool the other, then give both an ACT test, then wait to see if either ends up in prison.
> 
> 
> 
> No just look at the stats and woes of the public education system starting somewhere within the last 40 years or more now, and then bring it forward considering everything in the fall out that's been in it's wake since. The investment to seperate from it's wrath may be wort it, at least until we see big changes to come again for it all in a better way..
> 
> Oh and you figure that one will end up in prison in life, otherwise if they don't make the standardized grade ? That is profiling and discriminating language coming from a lefty ya know..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are sadly mistaken, but it is a common mistake.
> 
> PC's children, or anyone else's children, do not attend "the public education system." They attend a school. Schools vary widely in quality. Therefore the "stat's and woes," of whatever your referring are irrelevant.
> 
> Only the statistics associated with a student's _*SPECIFIC SCHOOL*_ may have any relevance. Even then, it is possible for very intelligent students to do well regardless of wherever they are educated.
> 
> Statistically, those who do poorly in school, or, like yourself, are mildly mentally handicapped often are also incarcerated. The fact that this escapes your basic inventory of knowledge is not terribly surprising.
Click to expand...

Oh so now I am mildly handicapped eh? Well I hope that you know, that you are a closeted lefty stereo typical/typing buffoon (i.e. a hypocrite).

Of course you wouldn't want to look at a nation wide stat, because it would lead to the pattern, trends and culture that has formed over the years in all of this mess, in which we have since got going now in this nation, and if studied correctly it could lead to better solutions. I mean if we were to recognize these patterns or trends that had gotten started in the wrong ways, especially those that have become a bad problem in the school system over the years, we could possibly begin to get better results. These problems have left many disastrous destroyed lives in there wake, and of course the few that make it will always be used by the left to win the argument, in which are to be focused on the most always and of course, but for the one's that barely made it, well it was all their fault right, and for the ones who didn't make it, well they were just cursed and simply were throw a way's anyhow right ? 

In all of this, the system just keeps getting worse and worse, and it ends up with less and less winners involved, but that's ok with the left as long as no one can figure out who the new winners are statistically, and who the new losers are in the deal statistically, and so you see, when you have a government that has a flawed agenda, and then they have taken that agenda into the public education system in order to change young minds against the knowledge of their parents, well we get what we all get as a result of once the damage is done.  Now worse, they have their lefty supporters pushing hard the overall agenda, in which of course they sorely want the trails to become confusing and loaded with distractions until that agenda is fulfilled, and this no matter who gets hurt in the overall deal in which the agenda has targeted for it's relentless attack until big changes are achieved to their satisfaction.

What's the problem, is it that when someone tries to dial in on the problem's, along with the trail that leads to the problems, does the left get all nervous maybe when this happens ? I think it does..


----------



## PoliticalChic

Samson said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> We know it costs....
> 
> but you'll really never know if it was a good investment.
> 
> The only way to know would be to have identical twins and send one to public school and homeschool the other, then give both an ACT test, then wait to see if either ends up in prison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Not only am I able to see the differences, but when they are with other children, even other adults comment....my older one has won several poetry contests.
> 
> They have interests, aren't turned off to learning.
> 
> That's one of the values.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You can delude yourself into believing home schooling made a huge difference, but you'll never know if they could have done just as well in public school.
> 
> I suppose, like the Federal Government, after you've made the expenditure, you must justify it.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your conservative politics, I find this karma very ironic.
Click to expand...




Perhaps it's you rationalizing not doing so....

Understandable.


I know my little one won't mind if I share with you the poem she wrote when she saw the tragedy at Newtown.....

The Bravest One

December 19, 2012


There is a certain teacher, gone now

Who you may already know

Yet she should have been publicized

For her actions against a foe



She hid her students in a closet

To save them from a fatal day

And showed valor I can only hope to possess

As that man took her life away



Bullets aimed at her courageous soul

I talk of her now with anguish and sorrow

She herself will not return,

Yet wanted those kids to see tomorrow



Nefarious people are usually famed

And their names are usually ones you remember

But think about a teachers sacrifice

In this month of disastrous December



She deserves a higher place

Than that man who deserved far worse

God bless her for the actions she took

To try and save her students first



Injustice is something ever present

Heroism isnt something we often find

Keep her family and friends in your prayers

And keep Miss Soto in your mind




To me, worth every minute and every penny homeschooling requires.


----------



## beagle9

PoliticalChic said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Not only am I able to see the differences, but when they are with other children, even other adults comment....my older one has won several poetry contests.
> 
> They have interests, aren't turned off to learning.
> 
> That's one of the values.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can delude yourself into believing home schooling made a huge difference, but you'll never know if they could have done just as well in public school.
> 
> I suppose, like the Federal Government, after you've made the expenditure, you must justify it.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your conservative politics, I find this karma very ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it's you rationalizing not doing so....
> 
> Understandable.
> 
> 
> I know my little one won't mind if I share with you the poem she wrote when she saw the tragedy at Newtown.....
> 
> The Bravest One
> 
> December 19, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a certain teacher, gone now
> 
> Who you may already know
> 
> Yet she should have been publicized
> 
> For her actions against a foe
> 
> 
> 
> She hid her students in a closet
> 
> To save them from a fatal day
> 
> And showed valor I can only hope to possess
> 
> As that man took her life away
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets aimed at her courageous soul
> 
> I talk of her now with anguish and sorrow
> 
> She herself will not return,
> 
> Yet wanted those kids to see tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> Nefarious people are usually famed
> 
> And their names are usually ones you remember
> 
> But think about a teachers sacrifice
> 
> In this month of disastrous December
> 
> 
> 
> She deserves a higher place
> 
> Than that man who deserved far worse
> 
> God bless her for the actions she took
> 
> To try and save her students first
> 
> 
> 
> Injustice is something ever present
> 
> Heroism isnt something we often find
> 
> Keep her family and friends in your prayers
> 
> And keep Miss Soto in your mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me, worth every minute and every penny homeschooling requires.
Click to expand...

You could be or have actually saved your child from another type of bullet, only it is one that kills far more slowly, and robs the child's soul and identity from them afterwards and/or during the experience.

You teach your children what you want them to be and want them to believe in their life, and that just ticks the feds off that you didn't send them into the meat grinder called the public schools system these days. I mean they can't re-program your kids mind if you don't send them into their hands to do so. It's really that simple, and also your child is like prisoners in a prison system these days, where as they are just body counts for the purpose of funding and paychecks paid to people who have bought into the liberals lies they have agreed to, and now want your child to believe in as well. The system needs these numbers kept high in order to keep it all going in the direction they have it all going in. I look at these attacks as being part of the failures of our entire system and mindset that has been allowed to be created now. Glad you have by-passed the system in this way, but beware of the traps being set along the trails still yet by these confused libs or demons loosed upon this land now.


----------



## PoliticalChic

beagle9 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can delude yourself into believing home schooling made a huge difference, but you'll never know if they could have done just as well in public school.
> 
> I suppose, like the Federal Government, after you've made the expenditure, you must justify it.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your conservative politics, I find this karma very ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it's you rationalizing not doing so....
> 
> Understandable.
> 
> 
> I know my little one won't mind if I share with you the poem she wrote when she saw the tragedy at Newtown.....
> 
> The Bravest One
> 
> December 19, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a certain teacher, gone now
> 
> Who you may already know
> 
> Yet she should have been publicized
> 
> For her actions against a foe
> 
> 
> 
> She hid her students in a closet
> 
> To save them from a fatal day
> 
> And showed valor I can only hope to possess
> 
> As that man took her life away
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets aimed at her courageous soul
> 
> I talk of her now with anguish and sorrow
> 
> She herself will not return,
> 
> Yet wanted those kids to see tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> Nefarious people are usually famed
> 
> And their names are usually ones you remember
> 
> But think about a teachers sacrifice
> 
> In this month of disastrous December
> 
> 
> 
> She deserves a higher place
> 
> Than that man who deserved far worse
> 
> God bless her for the actions she took
> 
> To try and save her students first
> 
> 
> 
> Injustice is something ever present
> 
> Heroism isnt something we often find
> 
> Keep her family and friends in your prayers
> 
> And keep Miss Soto in your mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me, worth every minute and every penny homeschooling requires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You could be or have actually saved your child from another type of bullet, only it is one that kills far more slowly, and robs the child's soul and identity from them afterwards and/or during the experience.
> 
> You teach your children what you want them to be and want them to believe in their life, and that just ticks the feds off that you didn't send them into the meat grinder called the public schools system these days. I mean they can't re-program your kids mind if you don't send them into their hands to do so. It's really that simple, and also your child is like prisoners in a prison system these days, where as they are just body counts for the purpose of funding and paychecks paid to people who have bought into the liberals lies they have agreed to, and now want your child to believe in as well. The system needs these numbers kept high in order to keep it all going in the direction they have it all going in. I look at these attacks as being part of the failures of our entire system and mindset that has been allowed to be created now. Glad you have by-passed the system in this way, but beware of the traps being set along the trails still yet by these confused libs or demons loosed upon this land now.
Click to expand...



And consistent with the Leftists in power today, their street-theatre-arm, the Occupy Wall Street crowd, actually *demanded an end to homeschooling*:

"One of the most disturbing items on the list: Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda. Apparently, OWSers are threatened by truly educated, independent thinkers, as are all communistic societies."
OWS Demands: Forced Unionization, Outlaw Homeschooling, Force Communism


----------



## beagle9

PoliticalChic said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it's you rationalizing not doing so....
> 
> Understandable.
> 
> 
> I know my little one won't mind if I share with you the poem she wrote when she saw the tragedy at Newtown.....
> 
> The Bravest One
> 
> December 19, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a certain teacher, gone now
> 
> Who you may already know
> 
> Yet she should have been publicized
> 
> For her actions against a foe
> 
> 
> 
> She hid her students in a closet
> 
> To save them from a fatal day
> 
> And showed valor I can only hope to possess
> 
> As that man took her life away
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets aimed at her courageous soul
> 
> I talk of her now with anguish and sorrow
> 
> She herself will not return,
> 
> Yet wanted those kids to see tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> Nefarious people are usually famed
> 
> And their names are usually ones you remember
> 
> But think about a teachers sacrifice
> 
> In this month of disastrous December
> 
> 
> 
> She deserves a higher place
> 
> Than that man who deserved far worse
> 
> God bless her for the actions she took
> 
> To try and save her students first
> 
> 
> 
> Injustice is something ever present
> 
> Heroism isnt something we often find
> 
> Keep her family and friends in your prayers
> 
> And keep Miss Soto in your mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me, worth every minute and every penny homeschooling requires.
> 
> 
> 
> You could be or have actually saved your child from another type of bullet, only it is one that kills far more slowly, and robs the child's soul and identity from them afterwards and/or during the experience.
> 
> You teach your children what you want them to be and want them to believe in their life, and that just ticks the feds off that you didn't send them into the meat grinder called the public schools system these days. I mean they can't re-program your kids mind if you don't send them into their hands to do so. It's really that simple, and also your child is like prisoners in a prison system these days, where as they are just body counts for the purpose of funding and paychecks paid to people who have bought into the liberals lies they have agreed to, and now want your child to believe in as well. The system needs these numbers kept high in order to keep it all going in the direction they have it all going in. I look at these attacks as being part of the failures of our entire system and mindset that has been allowed to be created now. Glad you have by-passed the system in this way, but beware of the traps being set along the trails still yet by these confused libs or demons loosed upon this land now.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And consistent with the Leftists in power today, their street-theatre-arm, the Occupy Wall Street crowd, actually *demanded an end to homeschooling*:
> 
> "One of the most disturbing items on the list: Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda. Apparently, OWSers are threatened by truly educated, independent thinkers, as are all communistic societies."
> OWS Demands: Forced Unionization, Outlaw Homeschooling, Force Communism
Click to expand...

Exactly, because they blame America for everything that is bad for them now, even if it don't apply they still blame for the agenda in which they are heading up in all of this. If people don't realize by now, about what is going on in this whole bigger picture that is involved, then we are doomed as the American society in which our founders of this nation believed in for us, and for which there was an oath taken to uphold.

Treason should be met with swift punishment or we are through here in America..


----------



## PoliticalChic

beagle9 said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could be or have actually saved your child from another type of bullet, only it is one that kills far more slowly, and robs the child's soul and identity from them afterwards and/or during the experience.
> 
> You teach your children what you want them to be and want them to believe in their life, and that just ticks the feds off that you didn't send them into the meat grinder called the public schools system these days. I mean they can't re-program your kids mind if you don't send them into their hands to do so. It's really that simple, and also your child is like prisoners in a prison system these days, where as they are just body counts for the purpose of funding and paychecks paid to people who have bought into the liberals lies they have agreed to, and now want your child to believe in as well. The system needs these numbers kept high in order to keep it all going in the direction they have it all going in. I look at these attacks as being part of the failures of our entire system and mindset that has been allowed to be created now. Glad you have by-passed the system in this way, but beware of the traps being set along the trails still yet by these confused libs or demons loosed upon this land now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And consistent with the Leftists in power today, their street-theatre-arm, the Occupy Wall Street crowd, actually *demanded an end to homeschooling*:
> 
> "One of the most disturbing items on the list: Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda. Apparently, OWSers are threatened by truly educated, independent thinkers, as are all communistic societies."
> OWS Demands: Forced Unionization, Outlaw Homeschooling, Force Communism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Exactly, because they blame America for everything that is bad for them now, even if it don't apply they still blame for the agenda in which they are heading up in all of this. If people don't realize by now, about what is going on in this whole bigger picture that is involved, then we are doomed as the American society in which our founders of this nation believed in for us, and for which there was an oath taken to uphold.
> 
> Treason should be met with swift punishment or we are through here in America..
Click to expand...


Alas....I feel your last six words are prescient.


----------



## Samson

PoliticalChic said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> Not only am I able to see the differences, but when they are with other children, even other adults comment....my older one has won several poetry contests.
> 
> They have interests, aren't turned off to learning.
> 
> That's one of the values.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can delude yourself into believing home schooling made a huge difference, but you'll never know if they could have done just as well in public school.
> 
> I suppose, like the Federal Government, after you've made the expenditure, you must justify it.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your conservative politics, I find this karma very ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it's you rationalizing not doing so....
> 
> Understandable.
> 
> 
> I know my little one won't mind if I share with you the poem she wrote when she saw the tragedy at Newtown.....
> 
> The Bravest One
> 
> December 19, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a certain teacher, gone now
> 
> Who you may already know
> 
> Yet she should have been publicized
> 
> For her actions against a foe
> 
> 
> 
> She hid her students in a closet
> 
> To save them from a fatal day
> 
> And showed valor I can only hope to possess
> 
> As that man took her life away
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets aimed at her courageous soul
> 
> I talk of her now with anguish and sorrow
> 
> She herself will not return,
> 
> Yet wanted those kids to see tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> Nefarious people are usually famed
> 
> And their names are usually ones you remember
> 
> But think about a teachers sacrifice
> 
> In this month of disastrous December
> 
> 
> 
> She deserves a higher place
> 
> Than that man who deserved far worse
> 
> God bless her for the actions she took
> 
> To try and save her students first
> 
> 
> 
> Injustice is something ever present
> 
> Heroism isnt something we often find
> 
> Keep her family and friends in your prayers
> 
> And keep Miss Soto in your mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me, worth every minute and every penny homeschooling requires.
Click to expand...


I thought it was the political left that never let a tragedy pass without taking advantage of it to support thier own agenda.

Welcome to the club.


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

blimpo said:


> When you create a three day test where the careers of people are on the line and 9 year olds are being judged you will have cheating.
> 
> The concerns over test scores are at the point of phobias.
> 
> I heard where one teacher was riding by baseball fields where kids this age were having baseball practice at 9:30 pm (after a full day of testing with tests again the next day) and was almost arrested for trying to run everyone off the field so the kids would have plenty of sleep for the coming tests.
> 
> Crazy testing will create crazy situations.



The testing is moronic. What do we want - a nation of people ready for work, or a nation of people ready to take a test?


----------



## Mad Scientist

Yeah, home schoolers *can't* be *that* smart because they *hardly ever* win those national spelling bees.


----------



## Too Tall

4Horsemen said:


> Now let's put this all in context shall we?
> 
> Of all the schools and teachers that are suspected and caught of cheating or helpijng the students cheat, How many of those schools, teachers and admins were more that 50% Asian/Hindu/etc of the student body/staff...??
> 
> Because little do most Americans know, test answers,etc.. are literally GIVEN to Foreigners in this country under the guise of "Enrichment Programs".  as a means to integrate them into our society faster. call it a free ride if you will.
> 
> It's no wonder an Asian kid can come to America at age 5 and be fluent in english and proficient in Math by age 17. It's by design. These kids are pampered and "propped up" and the Average American parent is none the wiser to what's going on right under their noses.



The principals, teachers and students in Americas biggest cheating scandal in Atlanta, Ga are almost exclusively African-Americans.


----------



## beagle9

Samson said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can delude yourself into believing home schooling made a huge difference, but you'll never know if they could have done just as well in public school.
> 
> I suppose, like the Federal Government, after you've made the expenditure, you must justify it.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your conservative politics, I find this karma very ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it's you rationalizing not doing so....
> 
> Understandable.
> 
> 
> I know my little one won't mind if I share with you the poem she wrote when she saw the tragedy at Newtown.....
> 
> The Bravest One
> 
> December 19, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a certain teacher, gone now
> 
> Who you may already know
> 
> Yet she should have been publicized
> 
> For her actions against a foe
> 
> 
> 
> She hid her students in a closet
> 
> To save them from a fatal day
> 
> And showed valor I can only hope to possess
> 
> As that man took her life away
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets aimed at her courageous soul
> 
> I talk of her now with anguish and sorrow
> 
> She herself will not return,
> 
> Yet wanted those kids to see tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> Nefarious people are usually famed
> 
> And their names are usually ones you remember
> 
> But think about a teachers sacrifice
> 
> In this month of disastrous December
> 
> 
> 
> She deserves a higher place
> 
> Than that man who deserved far worse
> 
> God bless her for the actions she took
> 
> To try and save her students first
> 
> 
> 
> Injustice is something ever present
> 
> Heroism isnt something we often find
> 
> Keep her family and friends in your prayers
> 
> And keep Miss Soto in your mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me, worth every minute and every penny homeschooling requires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought it was the political left that never let a tragedy pass without taking advantage of it to support thier own agenda.
> 
> Welcome to the club.
Click to expand...

Hey they are not using it, they are in defense mode against the left trying to use it, so you are confused..


----------



## initforme

If you believe that test scores are so important then you should be a total and unequivocal supporter of teaching ONLY to the test and I mean not one lesson, one day that will not have problems that are exactly the same as those on the test.   You cannot have another view on this, can you?


----------



## American_Jihad

OohPooPahDoo said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you create a three day test where the careers of people are on the line and 9 year olds are being judged you will have cheating.
> 
> The concerns over test scores are at the point of phobias.
> 
> I heard where one teacher was riding by baseball fields where kids this age were having baseball practice at 9:30 pm (after a full day of testing with tests again the next day) and was almost arrested for trying to run everyone off the field so the kids would have plenty of sleep for the coming tests.
> 
> Crazy testing will create crazy situations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The testing is moronic. What do we want - a nation of people ready for work, or a nation of people ready to take a test?
Click to expand...


Poopoo, spoken like a true liberal negroid...


----------



## OohPooPahDoo

Skull Pilot said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.



Oh thank god you don't have kids.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

OohPooPahDoo said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh thank god you don't have kids.
Click to expand...


but thank God he has IQ to see that liberal public schools produce the dumbest kids in the civilized world.


----------



## Unkotare

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh thank god you don't have kids.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> but thank God he has IQ to see that liberal public schools produce the dumbest kids in the civilized world.
Click to expand...




Oh, did you want to talk about your IQ again?


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Unkotare said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh thank god you don't have kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but thank God he has IQ to see that liberal public schools produce the dumbest kids in the civilized world.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, did you want to talk about your IQ again?
Click to expand...


liberal public schools produce about the dumbest kids in the civilized world and yet liberals support the status quo.


----------



## Unkotare

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> but thank God he has IQ to see that liberal public schools produce the dumbest kids in the civilized world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, did you want to talk about your IQ again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> liberal public schools produce about the dumbest kids in the civilized world and yet liberals support the status quo.
Click to expand...



Why didn't you answer my question?


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Unkotare said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, did you want to talk about your IQ again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> liberal public schools produce about the dumbest kids in the civilized world and yet liberals support the status quo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't you answer my question?
Click to expand...


liberal public schools produce about the dumbest kids in the civilized world and yet liberals support the status quo.


----------



## Unkotare

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> liberal public schools produce about the dumbest kids in the civilized world and yet liberals support the status quo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't you answer my question?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> liberal public schools produce about the dumbest kids in the civilized world and yet liberals support the status quo.
Click to expand...


Are you going Rain Man on me again Spammer? I asked you a question. You could at least say why you are afraid to answer it.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Samson said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can delude yourself into believing home schooling made a huge difference, but you'll never know if they could have done just as well in public school.
> 
> I suppose, like the Federal Government, after you've made the expenditure, you must justify it.
> 
> 
> 
> Based on your conservative politics, I find this karma very ironic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it's you rationalizing not doing so....
> 
> Understandable.
> 
> 
> I know my little one won't mind if I share with you the poem she wrote when she saw the tragedy at Newtown.....
> 
> The Bravest One
> 
> December 19, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a certain teacher, gone now
> 
> Who you may already know
> 
> Yet she should have been publicized
> 
> For her actions against a foe
> 
> 
> 
> She hid her students in a closet
> 
> To save them from a fatal day
> 
> And showed valor I can only hope to possess
> 
> As that man took her life away
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets aimed at her courageous soul
> 
> I talk of her now with anguish and sorrow
> 
> She herself will not return,
> 
> Yet wanted those kids to see tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> Nefarious people are usually famed
> 
> And their names are usually ones you remember
> 
> But think about a teachers sacrifice
> 
> In this month of disastrous December
> 
> 
> 
> She deserves a higher place
> 
> Than that man who deserved far worse
> 
> God bless her for the actions she took
> 
> To try and save her students first
> 
> 
> 
> Injustice is something ever present
> 
> Heroism isnt something we often find
> 
> Keep her family and friends in your prayers
> 
> And keep Miss Soto in your mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me, worth every minute and every penny homeschooling requires.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I thought it was the political left that never let a tragedy pass without taking advantage of it to support thier own agenda.
> 
> Welcome to the club.
Click to expand...



I haven't seen that kind of contortions since you gave birth to yourself.


----------



## American_Jihad

American_Jihad said:


> OohPooPahDoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you create a three day test where the careers of people are on the line and 9 year olds are being judged you will have cheating.
> 
> The concerns over test scores are at the point of phobias.
> 
> I heard where one teacher was riding by baseball fields where kids this age were having baseball practice at 9:30 pm (after a full day of testing with tests again the next day) and was almost arrested for trying to run everyone off the field so the kids would have plenty of sleep for the coming tests.
> 
> Crazy testing will create crazy situations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The testing is moronic. What do we want - a nation of people ready for work, or a nation of people ready to take a test?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poopoo, spoken like a true liberal negroid...
Click to expand...


PooPoo, how about your kids ready for work, mine ready for the test. My kids will end up being your kids boss making 8x more...


----------



## initforme

This is capitalism.  The best and brightest arent going to teach for wages they would be paid for dealing with american kids multiple endless problems.  They will do something that pays them a whole lot better and earns them so much more respect than being looked down upon by americans who do nothing but whine and complain about their kids education.   If you dont like the education your kid is getting then its pretty easy...

   Quit your job and stay home and educate your own kid or simply shut up.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

initforme said:


> This is capitalism.  The best and brightest arent going to teach for wages they would be paid for dealing with american kids multiple endless problems.




today a classroom generates $400,000 in revenue. The teacher gets $50,000 and the libturds waste the rest.

Pay the teacher 400k for capitalistic results and we'd have the best Republican education in the world!


----------



## beagle9

Unkotare said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why didn't you answer my question?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> liberal public schools produce about the dumbest kids in the civilized world and yet liberals support the status quo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you going Rain Man on me again Spammer? I asked you a question. You could at least say why you are afraid to answer it.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that it produces the dumbest kids in the world, but I bet it produces some of the most corruptible or corrupt kids in the world once they graduate, that's if they graduate from the experience they endure in the systems in some states now.

I also think that education varies in different states, where as some states still have good systems that haven't been destroyed by government dictatorship and bad liberal influence as of yet, but they had best beware, because it will eventually reach them soon also, and their worlds will crumble next under the weight of it all.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

beagle9 said:


> I wouldn't say that it produces the dumbest kids in the world, but I bet it produces some of the most corruptible or corrupt kids in the world



dear, the international comparison tests show that our libturd union schools produce about the dumbest kids in the world, not the most corruptible. Sorry!


----------



## Samson

PoliticalChic said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it's you rationalizing not doing so....
> 
> Understandable.
> 
> 
> I know my little one won't mind if I share with you the poem she wrote when she saw the tragedy at Newtown.....
> 
> The Bravest One
> 
> December 19, 2012
> 
> 
> There is a certain teacher, gone now
> 
> Who you may already know
> 
> Yet she should have been publicized
> 
> For her actions against a foe
> 
> 
> 
> She hid her students in a closet
> 
> To save them from a fatal day
> 
> And showed valor I can only hope to possess
> 
> As that man took her life away
> 
> 
> 
> Bullets aimed at her courageous soul
> 
> I talk of her now with anguish and sorrow
> 
> She herself will not return,
> 
> Yet wanted those kids to see tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> Nefarious people are usually famed
> 
> And their names are usually ones you remember
> 
> But think about a teachers sacrifice
> 
> In this month of disastrous December
> 
> 
> 
> She deserves a higher place
> 
> Than that man who deserved far worse
> 
> God bless her for the actions she took
> 
> To try and save her students first
> 
> 
> 
> Injustice is something ever present
> 
> Heroism isnt something we often find
> 
> Keep her family and friends in your prayers
> 
> And keep Miss Soto in your mind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me, worth every minute and every penny homeschooling requires.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was the political left that never let a tragedy pass without taking advantage of it to support thier own agenda.
> 
> Welcome to the club.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen that kind of contortions since you gave birth to yourself.
Click to expand...


Perhaps I should speak more slowly for you:

You are justifying home schooling using Newtown.

The Left is justifying Gun control using Newtown.

Sadly, there is no blog from which you can cut-and-paste a response, therefore I suppose the best I should expect more nonsensical weak attempts at insult.


----------



## allyn211

Skull Pilot said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.



My dad was a public school teacher before he died.  He had to retire because of his illness (this was 1992) and when I asked him if he regretted not teaching, he said, "No.  It was getting pretty bad."


----------



## allyn211

Too Tall said:


> .



The principals, teachers and students in Americas biggest cheating scandal in Atlanta, Ga are almost exclusively African-Americans.[/QUOTE]

I think that is true.  I live in ATL and this cheating scandal was news for MONTHS. 

It is true that the superintendent of schools was African American.


----------



## Samson

Everyone in Atlanta is African American in one degree or another.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

allyn211 said:


> It is true that the superintendent of schools was African American.



Well I suppose it make sense since blacks have been subject to liberal programs so much. It's more about getting over on the system under liberalism than contributing to it.

Its a pity too since before liberalism the black marital rate was almost as high as the white rate and the prison population was not nearly so disproportionate. Liberalism has a lot to answer for!!


----------



## Capnyc

I have 3 children in PS. Something need be done


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Capnyc said:


> I have 3 children in PS. Something need be done




lots of homework, somehow made interesting, every night is the place to start. And you can always move to better school districts and always vote Republican too. Good luck.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Detroit Public Schools: Bankrupting Minority Students Futures*​
January 31, 2013 
By Arnold Ahlert

...

In terms of the racial element, Education Trust-Midwest reported that Michigan has one of the worst student achievement gaps in the nation. Thus, Detroits overwhelmingly black American student body has fallen behind their white counterparts as far as any in the countryand as Michigan Merit Exam (MME) results reveal, the gap is getting larger. In 2011, Detroit tied Washington D.C. for last place nationwide in eighth-grade reading scores. Only 7 percent of students were grade-level proficient or better, according to the U.S. Department of Education. Almost unbelievably, DPS students were even worse in math. The Education Departments 2011 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) test revealed that a paltry 4 percent of DPS students scored highly enough to be rated proficient or better.

None of this stopped Detroit teachers from taking a day off last December 11 to protest Michigans subsequently enacted right to work law. Despite the consistently substandard education produced by the citys school unions, their members knew that reprisals for either that reality, or their illegitimate day off would never be challenged. The Michigan Education Association spent more than $7 million on political contributions, 86 percent of which went Democrats. That would be the same unions, along with their Democrat enablers, who consistently lobby against reforms such as vouchers, charter schools, the closing of underperforming schools, or anything else that puts the interests of students over those of the union.

...

Despite all hollow denials to the contrary, Detroit Democrats and their public school establishment allies own what they have created. The Detroit public school system is bankruptmorally and financiallyand it is black American school children and their parents who are most affected.

Detroit Public Schools: Bankrupting Minority Students? Futures


----------



## American_Jihad

*Dem-Controlled Atlanta Schools Rob Minority Students of Their Futures*

February 22, 2013 
By Arnold Ahlert

The Atlanta Public School system (APS) bears a strikingly depressing resemblance to all the other big city school systems chronicled in this series. Yet it does stand out in one respect: APS was the epicenter of the biggest cheating scandal in the nation. And once again, in a Democrat-controlled school district where more than eight-in-ten children are black Americans, it is those children who bear the burden of a system enmeshed in a culture of corruption and failure.

The details of the scandal are shocking. A state investigation discovered that 178 teachers and principals, 82 of whom subsequently confessed, were engaged in the rigging of test scores at 44 schools. Investigators concluded that those schools, comprising nearly half of the citys total number, and located mostly in the citys poorest neighborhoods, had been cheating for as along as a decade. As a result, tens of thousands of minority children were routinely advanced to higher grade levels, even as they remained unable to grasp fundamental concepts.

According to the report, administrators who felt pressured by the the federal governments No Child Left Behind law created a climate of fear, intimidation and retaliation, so oppressive that teachers felt they had no other choice but to go along with the subterfuge. Everybody was in fear, said a teacher in the report. It is not that the teachers are bad people and want to do it. It is that they are scared.

...

Maybe Davis will clean up the system. But the damage to thousands of black school children in Atlanta has already been done, just as it will continue to be done, by a status quo of unions and their Democratic enablers who have turned a blind eye to massive corruption and endemic failure. In a better world, the entire concept of union-controlled public school education as it currently exists would be jettisoned. Yet as long as big-city voters keep supporting a corrupt Democrat-union alliance, genuine reform likely remains impossibleand as in every other city chronicled in this series, black and minority children will be hurt the most.

Dem-Controlled Atlanta Schools Rob Minority Students of Their Futures


----------



## editec

The reliance that some of you have on those test improving schools is rather silly.  

That said, I don't have any doubt that some teachers, some schools, some administrators, are fudging the results, either.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

editec said:


> The reliance that some of you have on those test improving schools is rather silly.



too stupid!! if it was silly you would not have forgotten to tell us why it is silly!!

See why we say a liberal will be slow?


----------



## American_Jihad

*American Student Punished For Refusing To Be Indoctrinated By Saluting Mexican Flag, Reciting Mexican Pledge Of Allegiance*

Feb 27, 2013 7 
Jake Hammer

Excerpted from FOX RADIO: A Texas high school student has filed a federal lawsuit against her school and her teachers after she was punished for refusing to salute and recite the Mexican pledge of allegiance. The Thomas More Law Center filed the suit on behalf of Brenda Brinsdon alleging the McAllen Independent School District violated the 15-year-old girls constitutional rights when she was forced to recite the Mexican pledge and sing the Mexican national anthem.

Click here to read the lawsuit.

Brinsdon, who is the daughter of a Mexican immigrant and an American father, refused. She believed it was un-American to pledge a loyalty oath to another country.

...

American Student Punished For Refusing To Be Indoctrinated By Saluting Mexican Flag, Reciting Mexican Pledge Of Allegiance « Pat Dollard


----------



## Agit8r

It is fucking amazing that some people live in this fantasy world where teachers are both completely incompetent and able to indoctrinate our kids with communist brainwashing


----------



## Esmeralda

Standard testing is pointless and stupid.


----------



## Esmeralda

Agit8r said:


> It is fucking amazing that some people live in this fantasy world where teachers are both completely incompetent and able to indoctrinate our kids with communist brainwashing



LOL

Boggles the mind, doesn't it?


----------



## Esmeralda

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the sad thing is that education cant be outsourced so liberal Democrat unions are dominant in the educational industry and causing the usual destruction that they caused in other industries before international competition exposed the second rate work they were doing.
> 
> It was one thing, however,  when Democrats allowed unions to destroy our manufacturing industries but it is another when Democrats allow their liberal unions to destroy our children!!
Click to expand...


The US is not the only country that has teacher unions.  The  EU countries have unions for teachers and their schools are doing fine.  This has nothing to do with teacher unions.


----------



## Esmeralda

Jackson said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Throw all of these standardized tests out the fucking window.  The feds have no business being involved in public education.  It has generally been and should remain a local matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  We have to evaluate how well the educational systems are working.  When states make up their own tests, they are watered down to show the best possible outcome.  We need nationally normed tests.
Click to expand...


Standardized testing does not evaluate how well a education system is working. It evaluates how well teachers, schools and school districts can teach students to pass standardized tests.


----------



## Unkotare

Esmeralda said:


> Standardized testing does not evaluate how well a [sic] education [sic] system is working.





........................................


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Esmeralda said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Throw all of these standardized tests out the fucking window.  The feds have no business being involved in public education.  It has generally been and should remain a local matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  We have to evaluate how well the educational systems are working.  When states make up their own tests, they are watered down to show the best possible outcome.  We need nationally normed tests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Standardized testing does not evaluate how well a education system is working. It evaluates how well teachers, schools and school districts can teach students to pass standardized tests.
Click to expand...


too stupid!! I suppose its just coincidence that Harvard and MIT students have the highest scores and accomplish the most in the world!!!!!!


----------



## psu_student

I agree that standardized tests have value in measuring the success of teachers; while the system is not perfect, standardized testing provides the only means of comparing public schools across the board.  

The problem, I think, is that teachers are teaching to the test so severely that the only thing that students actually learn is how to take the tests, not the actual knowledge that they tests are supposedly measuring.  Thus, the million-dollar question becomes how to remedy this situation while maintaining a means of keeping tabs on the schools' progress.


----------



## bodecea

Agit8r said:


> It is fucking amazing that some people live in this fantasy world where teachers are both completely incompetent and able to indoctrinate our kids with communist brainwashing



And the solution is to arm them.


----------



## bodecea

Esmeralda said:


> Standard testing is pointless and stupid.



It teaches that if you cannot count it, it doesn't count.


----------



## bodecea

Capnyc said:


> I have 3 children in PS. Something need be done




Do you help them with their grammar homework?


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

psu_student said:


> The problem, I think, is that teachers are teaching to the test so severely that the only thing that students actually learn is how to take the tests, not the actual knowledge that they tests are supposedly measuring.



too stupid. you can't take a test and do well unless you have the knowledge to do well. Tests work well which explains why Harvard and MIT kids have the best test scores.


----------



## psu_student

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> psu_student said:
> 
> 
> 
> too stupid. you can't take a test and do well unless you have the knowledge to do well. Tests work well which explains why Harvard and MIT kids have the best test scores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point that I was attempting to make was not that the students are not learning _anything_ in the public school system.  Yes, in order to do well on a test one must have the knowledge to sufficiently answer the test questions.
> 
> The culture of standardized testing results in a combination of superficial knowledge of the subject matter and test-taking skills.  The practice of "teaching to the test" does not promote is critical thinking or problem solving abilities.  Unfortunately, there is no easy way to test the development of these skills.
> 
> Additionally, I know many very intelligent people who are poor test takers.  Neither the students nor their teachers should be punished because of the fact that some people think in different ways.
Click to expand...


----------



## Polk

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the sad thing is that education cant be outsourced so liberal Democrat unions are dominant in the educational industry and causing the usual destruction that they caused in other industries before international competition exposed the second rate work they were doing.
> 
> It was one thing, however,  when Democrats allowed unions to destroy our manufacturing industries but it is another when Democrats allow their liberal unions to destroy our children!!
Click to expand...


The worst states for education are also those where unions are the weakest.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Polk said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the sad thing is that education cant be outsourced so liberal Democrat unions are dominant in the educational industry and causing the usual destruction that they caused in other industries before international competition exposed the second rate work they were doing.
> 
> It was one thing, however,  when Democrats allowed unions to destroy our manufacturing industries but it is another when Democrats allow their liberal unions to destroy our children!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The worst states for education are also those where unions are the weakest.
Click to expand...


too stupid!! as if thats the only factor!!


----------



## Polk

It's not, but it's pretty strong evidence that unions aren't the problem.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Polk said:


> It's not, but it's pretty strong evidence that unions aren't the problem.



too stupid of course since public schools are a government monopoly as successful as any soviet government monopoly and are defended by unions most forcefully


----------



## Polk

If public schools are so terrible, why do private schools not do any better?


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Polk said:


> If public schools are so terrible, why do private schools not do any better?



no idea why you say that????????. There are several private schools that feed directly into the Ivy League, catholic schools are better than public for less money, etc etc


----------



## Polk

There are public schools that feed directly into elite universities as well. It has to do with the student populations, not anything special or unique about the school's pedagogy.


----------



## Esmeralda

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  We have to evaluate how well the educational systems are working.  When states make up their own tests, they are watered down to show the best possible outcome.  We need nationally normed tests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Standardized testing does not evaluate how well a education system is working. It evaluates how well teachers, schools and school districts can teach students to pass standardized tests.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> too stupid!! I suppose its just coincidence that Harvard and MIT students have the highest scores and accomplish the most in the world!!!!!!
Click to expand...


This is totally irrelevant. Plus, a great many students at the best American universities are from other countries.  Also, I know for a fact that getting into a top university is not based on standardized test scores.  SAT is used but is not the only or most important indicator.  The whole student is considered: their extra-curricular activities, for example, as well as one to one interviews with the admitting people at the university.  Also, the top US high schools, which feed the top US universities, have the IB program and the AP program, both of which are not dependent on standardized testing to evaluate who are the top students.    Bottom line, standardized testing has little to do with entering the top universities anywhere.


----------



## Esmeralda

psu_student said:


> I agree that standardized tests have value in measuring the success of teachers; while the system is not perfect, standardized testing provides the only means of comparing public schools across the board.
> 
> *The problem, I think, is that teachers are teaching to the test so severely that the only thing that students actually learn is how to take the tests*, not the actual knowledge that they tests are supposedly measuring.  Thus, the million-dollar question becomes how to remedy this situation while maintaining a means of keeping tabs on the schools' progress.



Teachers are teaching students to pass the tests. That has become the focus.  Standardized testing does not show us who are the the best educators: it shows us who is best a teaching students to do well on standardized tests.  

The best way to remedy the situation is to look at other countries and what they do that provides educational success. As well, another important factor is the spectrum of social ills in the US that public schools are supposed to deal with.  The schools expend about half their attention and energy dealing with the ills of American society rather than on educating the children.  The family, the parents, for example: when schools have parent teacher conference open houses, about 10% of the parents attend, and most often those are parents of students who are doing well. That is why private schools do so much better, because parents are more involved in the education of their children, not just being in contact with the school, but making sure their children study, do their homework, attend school regular, and setting high standards of expectation from their children.  Ninety percent of all public school parents just send their kids off to school and expect the school to fix everything, to take care of everything, and then they bitch their heads of when it isn't done: like on this thread.

Poor results in the US education system have nothing to do with unions: EU countries have teacher uniions and EU countries have much better success than the US in education.  In EU countries, family ties are much stronger and more traditonal than in the US.


----------



## squeeze berry

private schools can do a better job because they can pick and choose students and the public schools can not. Public schools must take everyone including the most recalcitrant of students.

The parents  and students in private schools likely will come from a better socio-economic background than average.


Private schools do not have special education services.

Public schools have more paper-work, regulations and accountability to deal with than private schools


Teaching to the test is not as bad as some believe. The tests are comprehensive and prove the student's mastery of the subject.

PS 

I wanted to highlight this b/c it's so true

*"Ninety percent of all public school parents just send their kids off to school and expect the school to fix everything, to take care of everything, and then they bitch their heads of when it isn't done: like on this thread."*


----------



## Polk

Esmeralda said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standardized testing does not evaluate how well a education system is working. It evaluates how well teachers, schools and school districts can teach students to pass standardized tests.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> too stupid!! I suppose its just coincidence that Harvard and MIT students have the highest scores and accomplish the most in the world!!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is totally irrelevant. Plus, a great many students at the best American universities are from other countries.  Also, I know for a fact that getting into a top university is not based on standardized test scores.  SAT is used but is not the only or most important indicator.  The whole student is considered: their extra-curricular activities, for example, as well as one to one interviews with the admitting people at the university.  Also, the top US high schools, which feed the top US universities, have the IB program and the AP program, both of which are not dependent on standardized testing to evaluate who are the top students.    Bottom line, standardized testing has little to do with entering the top universities anywhere.
Click to expand...


Both the AP and IB programs certainly have a standardized testing that's important, but you're right in that much of the initial selection for these programs are generally teachers who see a student as having additional potential.


----------



## psu_student

Teaching to the test is not as bad as some believe. The tests are comprehensive and prove the student's mastery of the subject.


I agree with this statement in some cases.  AP and IB tests that are testing the knowledge of a certain subject are very effective.  Final IB grades are based on oral and written exams, timed writings, formal essays, and creative projects.  As a result, students are required to showcase a variety of skills beyond the rote memorization of facts.

The problem with teaching to the test, in my opinion, really arises in the standardized state assessment tests that influence the state funding that public schools receive.  Rather than focusing on teaching important skills such as critical thinking, teachers are forced to place more emphasis on teaching techniques of multiple choice test-taking.


----------



## Ernie S.

blimpo said:


> Discipline--Homeschool teachers do have control over their students, not unlike the discipline teachers had that has now been taken away.
> 
> Unlike many public school students, homeschool students have parents that care..



So what you're saying is that some people shouldn't have kids?


----------



## IanC

squeeze berry said:


> private schools can do a better job because they can pick and choose students and the public schools can not. Public schools must take everyone including the most recalcitrant of students.
> 
> The parents  and students in private schools likely will come from a better socio-economic background than average.
> 
> 
> Private schools do not have special education services.
> 
> Public schools have more paper-work, regulations and accountability to deal with than private schools
> 
> 
> Teaching to the test is not as bad as some believe. The tests are comprehensive and prove the student's mastery of the subject.
> 
> PS
> 
> I wanted to highlight this b/c it's so true
> 
> *"Ninety percent of all public school parents just send their kids off to school and expect the school to fix everything, to take care of everything, and then they bitch their heads of when it isn't done: like on this thread."*




people value what they pay for. private schools get better results because they get better parents not because they get better kids.


----------



## IanC

Ernie S. said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Discipline--Homeschool teachers do have control over their students, not unlike the discipline teachers had that has now been taken away.
> 
> Unlike many public school students, homeschool students have parents that care..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you're saying is that some people shouldn't have kids?
Click to expand...



I'm a good parent, and taught them many things, but I don't think I would have liked to homeschool them. kids need an opportunity to interact with other kids and adults. homeschooling is not only not for everybody but it is only for a very few.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

IanC said:


> Ernie S. said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Discipline--Homeschool teachers do have control over their students, not unlike the discipline teachers had that has now been taken away.
> 
> Unlike many public school students, homeschool students have parents that care..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So what you're saying is that some people shouldn't have kids?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a good parent, and taught them many things, but I don't think I would have liked to homeschool them. kids need an opportunity to interact with other kids and adults. homeschooling is not only not for everybody but it is only for a very few.
Click to expand...


dear, almost anything is better than liberal public schools which turn out the dumbest kids in the civilized world, and that does even mention the compromised liberal values they have.


----------



## Esmeralda

psu_student said:


> I agree with this statement in some cases.  AP and IB tests that are testing the knowledge of a certain subject are very effective.  Final IB grades are based on oral and written exams, timed writings, formal essays, and creative projects.  As a result, students are required to showcase a variety of skills beyond the rote memorization of facts.
> 
> The problem with teaching to the test, in my opinion, really arises in the standardized state assessment tests that influence the state funding that public schools receive.  Rather than focusing on teaching important skills such as critical thinking, teachers are forced to place more emphasis on teaching techniques of multiple choice test-taking.



*"Teaching to the test is not as bad as some believe. The tests are comprehensive and prove the student's mastery of the subject."*

I disagree.   They teach the student to do well on the starndardized test. To memorize information, to perform certain formulas or processes.  They students don't 'master' the the subject, not by any means. They memorize certain things, most of which are soon lost because they were stored in short term memory.  Education is not about passing tests or memorizing facts; it is about learning how to think, learning how to learn, acquiring the skills to acquire knowledge as a life long learner, about enjoying learning, about developing critical thinking skills, about being an inquirer, and many other things that have nothing to do with memorizing and regurgitating information.


----------



## squeeze berry

Esmeralda said:


> psu_student said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this statement in some cases.  AP and IB tests that are testing the knowledge of a certain subject are very effective.  Final IB grades are based on oral and written exams, timed writings, formal essays, and creative projects.  As a result, students are required to showcase a variety of skills beyond the rote memorization of facts.
> 
> The problem with teaching to the test, in my opinion, really arises in the standardized state assessment tests that influence the state funding that public schools receive.  Rather than focusing on teaching important skills such as critical thinking, teachers are forced to place more emphasis on teaching techniques of multiple choice test-taking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"Teaching to the test is not as bad as some believe. The tests are comprehensive and prove the student's mastery of the subject."*
> 
> I disagree.   They teach the student to do well on the starndardized test. To memorize information, to perform certain formulas or processes.  They students don't 'master' the the subject, not by any means. They memorize certain things, most of which are soon lost because they were stored in short term memory.  Education is not about passing tests or memorizing facts; it is about learning how to think, learning how to learn, acquiring the skills to acquire knowledge as a life long learner, about enjoying learning, about developing critical thinking skills, about being an inquirer, and many other things that have nothing to do with memorizing and regurgitating information.
Click to expand...


not all the tests are multiple choice. Not the writing exams.

The math multiple choice requires calculation.

Teaching to the test and teaching critical thinking skills are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## Annika55

EdwardBaiamonte posted:
"dear, almost anything is better than liberal public schools which turn out the dumbest kids in the civilized world, and that does even mention the compromised liberal values they have."
The problem with comparing US schools test results to those of other countries is that the US has two totally different sets of results. There is an enormous gap (the highest of all countries) between US top performers and our bottom performers. As one might expect, when we see a mean, the result is just "average."

The Answer Sheet - Do international test comparisons make sense?

"....Many critics cite the performance of American students on international comparisons of mathematics and science. The most often used comparison comes from rankings on the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). Most recently (2006), American students ranked 24th of 30 OECD nations in mathematics and 17th of 30 in science. Errors in the test booklets prevented the reporting scores for American students in reading.

It should be noted that these rankings are determined by nations&#8217; average scores. Some researchers have suggested, however, that average score comparisons are not useful: even presuming that the tests have some meaning for future accomplishment, average students are not likely to be the leaders in fields of mathematics and science.

Those roles are more likely to fall to those scoring well. A publication from OECD itself observes that if one examines the number of highest-scoring students in science, the United States has 25% of all high-scoring students in the world (at least in &#8220;the world&#8221; as defined by the 58 nations taking part in the assessment&#8212;the 30 OECD nations and 28 &#8220;partner&#8221; countries). Among nations with high average scores, Japan accounted for 13% of the highest scorers, Korea 5%, Taipei 3%, Finland 1%, and Hong Kong 1%. Singapore did not participate.

The picture emerging from this highest-scorer comparison is far different than that suggested by the frequently cited national average comparisons; it is a picture that suggests many American schools are actually doing very well indeed.

Of course, the U.S. is much larger than these other countries and should be expected to produce larger numbers of successful students. But it is only when we look beyond the mean and consider the distribution of students and schools that we see the true picture. Students attending American schools run the gamut from excellent to poor. Well-resourced schools serving wealthy neighborhoods are showing excellent results. Poorly resourced schools serving low-income communities of color do far worse."


----------



## Annika55

Skull Pilot said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.



The reality is that we have a 2 tier education system in the US with an enormous achivement gap between the two tiers. Students in relatively wealthy districts compete with the top students in the world.

Students in poor, urban schools populated by minority students do abysmally.

When we talk about US school results, unfortunately, we usually talk about the average results of these two groups.

The Answer Sheet - Do international test comparisons make sense?


----------



## Annika55

PixieStix said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again; if I were ever to have kids I would home school them rather than subject them to the utter failure that is public schooling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's no fucking way I would pay the state to babysit everyone elses kid while I sweat it out at home with mine.
> 
> Plus, I have a job.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah but the stats are striking
> Statistic
> s on Public School Vs. Homeschool
> 
> Two major studies have assessed academic achievement in homeschooling. The first study,Strengths of Their Own: Homeschoolers Across America was conducted in 1997 and followed more than 5,000 homeschoolers from over 1,600 families. The study showed homeschoolers typically academically outperformed children receiving a public education on standardized tests by approximately 30 to 35 percentile points in all subject areas.
> 
> In the second, the Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA)
> commissioned a study drawing data for the 2007-2008 school year from multiple standardized testing services. *Once again, the national average
> percentile scores were higher in all subject areas by at least 34 percentile points, and as high as 39 percentile points*. Factors such as parental college degrees, how much parents spent on education, level of state regulation, and sex of the students made little difference in the range of scores in all areas among the homeschooled children.
Click to expand...


Stats do show that students with parents who strongly value education and receive  indivdual attention based on demonstrated needs will do very well. Students who are well-fed, have self-esteem and feel loved, and are not distracted by misbehaving students are likely to do very well. Students who are not deprived of teacher attention while teacher interacts with the neediest or 
rowdiest learners, and students who are sitting next to other motivated, productive peers are likely to be high achievers. Wish we could transfer the 
reasons why homeschooled kids do so well to the public school classroom.


----------



## Annika55

gallantwarrior said:


> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiseacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only way I can see out of this is more competition from charter and private schools.   That, and reduce the power of public school teacher unions.   It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> The only reason they go into teaching is to become rich and drive $100,000 sports cars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope.  Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, teach PhysEd.
Click to expand...


That's an absurd generalization. People go into teaching for a variety of reasons, but the common denominator is a desire to help kids. 
I graduated Summa Cum Laude with High Honors in English. I taught for 30 years because I loved literature and wanted to inspire students to share my passion for language, writing, and critical analysis.
My daughter entered college with sophomore credits due to her AP classes. She graduated college Summa Cum Laude with a math major and bio minor. She took the same classes as engineers and scientists and did superbly. I was so proud when she became a HS math teacher. Believe me, teaching is a demanding, exhausting profession. You are simply wrong when you ridicule all teachers.


----------



## Annika55

blimpo said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blimpo said:
> 
> 
> 
> True.
> 
> The only reason they go into teaching is to become rich and drive $100,000 sports cars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.  Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, teach PhysEd.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> But some who can do begin to teach when they witness how pathetic many are around them.
Click to expand...


Those who can do probably were taught how to do by their teachers.


----------



## Annika55

American_Jihad said:


> *Detroit Public Schools: Bankrupting Minority Students Futures*​
> January 31, 2013
> By Arnold Ahlert
> 
> ...
> 
> In terms of the racial element, Education Trust-Midwest reported that Michigan has one of the worst student achievement gaps in the nation. Thus, Detroits overwhelmingly black American student body has fallen behind their white
> counterparts as far as any in the countryand as Michigan Merit Exam (MME) results reveal, the gap is getting larger. In 2011, Detroit tied Washington D.C. for last place nationwide in eighth-grade reading scores. Only 7 percent of students were grade-level proficient or better, according to the U.S. Department of Education. Almost unbelievably, DPS students were even worse in math. The Education Departments 2011 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) test revealed that a paltry 4 percent of DPS students scored highly enough to be rated proficient or better.
> 
> None of this stopped Detroit teachers from taking a day off last December 11 to protest Michigans subsequently enacted right to work law. Despite the
> consistently substandard education produced by the citys school unions, their members knew that reprisals for either that reality, or their illegitimate day off would never be challenged. The Michigan Education Association spent more than $7 million on political contributions, 86 percent of which went Democrats. That would be the same unions, along with their Democrat enablers, who consistently lobby against reforms such as vouchers, charter schools, the closing of underperforming schools, or anything else that puts the interests of students over those of the union.
> ...
> 
> Despite all hollow denials to the contrary, Detroit Democrats and their public school establishment allies own what they have created. The Detroit public school system is bankruptmorally and financiallyand it is black American school children and their parents who are most affected.
> 
> Detroit Public Schools: Bankrupting
> Minority Students? Futures



Yes, but the TOP SCORING wealthy suburban schools that surround Detroit like Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills and Troy also have teacher unions. You are looking at an enormously complex problem with tunnel vision.


----------



## Esmeralda

*"It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids."*
Whatever your education was, you apparently didn't learn any critical thinking skills. Teachers are the lowest paid professionals with the same level of educatin as other professionals.  They do not go into teaching to line their pockets, that's for sure.  Many teachers have worked in the private sector for years and changed to teaching because they were not inspired by chasing the almight dollar.  Most others aspired to teaching since they themselves were students and admired their own teachers and/or found themselves very attached to a specific discipline, wanting to have a career in teaching it.  No one goes into the field of teaching because they are after the financial gain.  No one.

One of the things that is interesting, and exceedingly ironic, is that in other countries, teachers are respected. In those countries, where students and parents respect teachers and value education, the success of the education system is much higher than in the States. Part of what is wrong with the education 'system' is not the system itself but the lack of respect for teachers and for education that exists in the States.


----------



## Annika55

American_Jihad said:


> *American Student Punished For Refusing To Be Indoctrinated By Saluting Mexican Flag, Reciting Mexican Pledge Of Allegiance*
> 
> Feb 27, 2013 7
> Jake Hammer
> 
> Excerpted from FOX RADIO: A Texas high school student has filed a federal lawsuit against her school and her teachers after she was punished for refusing to salute and recite the Mexican pledge of allegiance. The Thomas More Law Center filed the suit on behalf of Brenda Brinsdon alleging the McAllen Independent School District violated the 15-year-old girls constitutional rights when she was forced to recite the Mexican pledge and sing the Mexican national anthem
> 
> Click here to read the lawsuit.
> 
> Brinsdon, who is the daughter of a Mexican immigrant and an American father, refused. She believed it was un-American to pledge a loyalty oath to another country.
> 
> American Student Punished For Refusing To Be Indoctrinated By Saluting Mexican Flag, Reciting Mexican Pledge Of Allegiance « Pat Dollard



Your source tells us: "The recitation of the Mexican pledge and the singing of the Mexican national anthem was part of a 2011 Spanish class assignment at Achieve Early College High School. The teacher, Reyna Santos, required all her students to participate in the lesson."

The pledge and singing was not demanded of all the students in the school. The Spanish teacer may not have used good judgment, but her purpose was not to undermine US loyalty but to expose students to the Mexican pledge and anthem. Since this was a "college high school" it is likely most students understood the purpose of the material in the context of a Spanish class.


----------



## Esmeralda

Annika55 said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *American Student Punished For Refusing To Be Indoctrinated By Saluting Mexican Flag, Reciting Mexican Pledge Of Allegiance*
> 
> Feb 27, 2013 7
> Jake Hammer
> 
> Excerpted from FOX RADIO: A Texas high school student has filed a federal lawsuit against her school and her teachers after she was punished for refusing to salute and recite the Mexican pledge of allegiance. The Thomas More Law Center filed the suit on behalf of Brenda Brinsdon alleging the McAllen Independent School District violated the 15-year-old girls constitutional rights when she was forced to recite the Mexican pledge and sing the Mexican national anthem
> 
> Click here to read the lawsuit.
> 
> Brinsdon, who is the daughter of a Mexican immigrant and an American father, refused. She believed it was un-American to pledge a loyalty oath to another country.
> 
> American Student Punished For Refusing To Be Indoctrinated By Saluting Mexican Flag, Reciting Mexican Pledge Of Allegiance « Pat Dollard
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your source tells us: "The recitation of the Mexican pledge and the singing of the Mexican national anthem was part of a 2011 Spanish class assignment at Achieve Early College High School. The teacher, Reyna Santos, required all her students to participate in the lesson."
> 
> The pledge and singing was not demanded of all the students in the school. *The Spanish teacer may not have used good judgment, but her purpose was not to undermine US loyalty but to expose students to the Mexican pledge and anthem. Since this was a "college high school" it is likely most students understood the purpose of the material in the context of a Spanish class*.
Click to expand...


Yes, the teacher did not use good judgment.  In a second language class, students learn about the culture as well as studying the language.  But the teacher should have made this assignment optional.  Teachers are not perfect and do make mistakes.  Good  Lord. You'd think no one on here made any mistakes while on their own jobs.


----------



## Annika55

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Polk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> the sad thing is that education cant be outsourced so liberal Democrat unions are dominant in the educational industry and causing the usual destruction that they caused in other industries before international competition exposed the second rate work they were doing.
> 
> It was one thing, however,  when Democrats allowed unions to destroy our manufacturing industries but it is another when Democrats allow their liberal unions to destroy our children!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The worst states for education are also those where unions are the weakest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> too stupid!! as if thats the only factor!!
Click to expand...


I agree. And i am sure you did not mean to imply that teacher unions were the reason Detroit students do so poorly. That would also be "too stupid!!"


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Annika55 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Polk said:
> 
> 
> 
> The worst states for education are also those where unions are the weakest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> too stupid!! as if thats the only factor!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree. And i am sure you did not mean to imply that teacher unions were the reason Detroit students do so poorly. That would also be "too stupid!!"
Click to expand...


it is very safe to say that liberal unions are the proximate cause of our schools turning out about the dumbest kids in the civilized world.
Some states may have weaker unions but the schools still function as liberal union monopolies and get the expected results.


----------



## hunarcy

gallantwarrior said:


> Nope.  Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, teach PhysEd.



It is a more accurate statement to say "Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, or do, go into politics and make laws about teaching."


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

hunarcy said:


> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.  Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, teach PhysEd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a more accurate statement to say "Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, or do, go into politics and make laws about teaching."
Click to expand...


it is very safe to say that liberal unions are the proximate cause of our schools turning out about the dumbest kids in the civilized world.
Some states may have weaker unions but the schools still function as liberal union monopolies and get the expected results.


----------



## hunarcy

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.  Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, teach PhysEd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a more accurate statement to say "Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, or do, go into politics and make laws about teaching."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it is very safe to say that liberal unions are the proximate cause of our schools turning out about the dumbest kids in the civilized world.
> Some states may have weaker unions but the schools still function as liberal union monopolies and get the expected results.
Click to expand...



Wow, you're a very odd and unusual buffoon.


----------



## Esmeralda

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.  Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, teach PhysEd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a more accurate statement to say "Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, or do, go into politics and make laws about teaching."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it is very safe to say that liberal unions are the proximate cause of our schools turning out about the dumbest kids in the civilized world.
> Some states may have weaker unions but the schools still function as liberal union monopolies and get the expected results.
Click to expand...


I've posted this earlier in this thread, but I'll post it again for those with weak reading comprehension skills: the EU countries have teacher unions.  The EU countries have stronger educational systems and better student success than the US does.  Teacher unions are not the problem.  Liberal politics is not the problem.  The problem is American social problems, the fact that schools in America are forced to expend half of their time, attention and energy on social ills rather than on education, and the lack of respect for education and teachers.  The problem is not teacher unions.  The problem is not teacher training. The problem is not teachers.  The problem  is the American public: the very people like the ones in this tread who bitch and bitch and bitch but have no idea what they are talking about.


----------



## American_Jihad

Esmeralda said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a more accurate statement to say "Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, or do, go into politics and make laws about teaching."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it is very safe to say that liberal unions are the proximate cause of our schools turning out about the dumbest kids in the civilized world.
> Some states may have weaker unions but the schools still function as liberal union monopolies and get the expected results.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've posted this earlier in this thread, but I'll post it again for those with weak reading comprehension skills: the EU countries have teacher unions.  The EU countries have stronger educational systems and better student success than the US does.  Teacher unions are not the problem.  Liberal politics is not the problem.  The problem is American social problems, the fact that schools in America are forced to expend half of their time, attention and energy on social ills rather than on education, and the lack of respect for education and teachers.  The problem is not teacher unions.  The problem is not teacher training. The problem is not teachers.  The problem  is the American public: the very people like the ones in this tread who bitch and bitch and bitch but have no idea what they are talking about.
Click to expand...


...


----------



## Esmeralda

American_Jihad said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> it is very safe to say that liberal unions are the proximate cause of our schools turning out about the dumbest kids in the civilized world.
> Some states may have weaker unions but the schools still function as liberal union monopolies and get the expected results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've posted this earlier in this thread, but I'll post it again for those with weak reading comprehension skills: the EU countries have teacher unions.  The EU countries have stronger educational systems and better student success than the US does.  Teacher unions are not the problem.  Liberal politics is not the problem.  The problem is American social problems, the fact that schools in America are forced to expend half of their time, attention and energy on social ills rather than on education, and the lack of respect for education and teachers.  The problem is not teacher unions.  The problem is not teacher training. The problem is not teachers.  The problem  is the American public: the very people like the ones in this tread who bitch and bitch and bitch but have no idea what they are talking about.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> ...
Click to expand...


Yes, I would say the problem is people like you.


----------



## Esmeralda

Countries with most effective education systems in order of rating:
Finland is number 1

Finland
South Korea
Hong Kong
Japan
Singapore
UK
Netherlands
New Zealand
Switzerland
Canada
Ireland
Denmark
Australia
Poland
Germany
Belgium
USA
Hungary
Slovakia
Russia



> BEN LEVIN, Professor and Canada Research Chair in Education Leadership and Policy. University of Toronto, Ontario Institute for Studies in Education (OISE)
> A lot of education rhetoric these days includes mention of the supposedly negative impact of teacher unions on reform.  For a few commentators, eliminating union opposition is one of the most essential, or even the single most important component in creating improvement, while for many others it is part of the package.
> But heres an interesting observation.  *Virtually all the top performing countries on international education measures have strong teacher unions, including Finland, Korea, Japan, Canada, Australia and others.*  Of course such a relationship does not imply causation, but it does suggest that there is no necessary conflict between strong teacher unions and good outcomes. Moreover, some countries or sub-national units that took steps to weaken the influence of their unions did not demonstrate any subsequent improvements and in some cases, such as England, later had to take many measures to improve the situation of teachers to get an adequate supply and thus to improve student results


Education This Week - US Edition

The problem with education in the US is *not* teacher unions.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Esmeralda said:


> The problem  is the American public:




trying to excuse failure is  too stupid and perfectly liberal. The Americans most in support of change are black parents whose kids go to worthless hip-hop ghetto schools!! Who is the enemy of voucher schools and charter schools that don't make excuses for failure???? Liberal unions of course!!!

Did you see Waiting For Superman???


----------



## Esmeralda

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem  is the American public:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trying to excuse failure is  too stupid and perfectly liberal. The Americans most in support of change are black parents whose kids go to worthless hip-hop ghetto schools!! Who is the enemy of voucher schools and charter schools that don't make excuses for failure???? Liberal unions of course!!!
> 
> Did you see Waiting For Superman???
Click to expand...


You think teachers would prefer to maintain the quality of ghetto schools, would prefer to teach in them rathern than better schools?  Unions are not the enemy of anything that improves the quality of the job for teachers.  Keeping schools in bad condition is not something teachers or unions support.  Try to use some critical thinking skills. Possibly you didn't get any because you didn't pay attention in school. Possibly you hate the American school system because you were a failure in it: which is your fault and no one else's. Take responsibility for your own failures and stop hating all teachers and all of the American school system because you were miserable in it.

The reason schools in America are not performing is because of the social problems in America--which is much of what I mean by 'the American public' being the problem.  The schools expend at least half their time, engery, and focus on dealing with social problems. In schools like those you mention, it is more like 90%.  Change the society so the social problems are reduced, find other ways to deal with them, etc., and schools can go back to focusing on education. I know that one reason schools in Europe and Asia do better is because traditional values in the family are stronger and remain intact. And don't throw in yet another myth, that it is feminism that has ruined the American family: women in Europe are just as liberated as American women: I've lived in Europe; feminism is just as strong there as in the States.  Europeans have adapted to women being free and equal and have still maintained strong family units.  The problem is not unions, the problem is not liberalism (Europeans are far more liberal than Americans), the problem is not Unions.  The problem is American social ills.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Esmeralda said:


> Unions are not the enemy of anything that improves the quality of the job for teachers.




too stupid!! and 100% liberal. We're talking about the quallity of the education not the quality of the teachers job!! Thanks for the perfect example of the self-centered liberal union screw the kids mentality.

Unions won't let principals fire the bad teachers. Imagine a business that could not fire the bad workers. Thats how absurd, stupid, and dangerous unions are!!


----------



## Esmeralda

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Unions are not the enemy of anything that improves the quality of the job for teachers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> too stupid!! and 100% liberal. We're talking about the quallity of the education not the quality of the teachers job!! Thanks for the perfect example of the self-centered liberal union screw the kids mentality.
> 
> Unions won't let principals fire the bad teachers. Imagine a business that could not fire the bad workers. Thats how absurd, stupid, and dangerous unions are!!
Click to expand...


You can't even read with comprehension; you cannot even do any critical thinking.  You can't even put two and two together.

Bad teachers are not protected by unions.  What about all the discussion of teachers pressuring kids about standardized tests, even of some cheating to make sure their kids do well? If they felt their jobs were secure no matter what, they wouldn't care if their students did poorly on standardized tests. Try to THINK.  Try to use your brain.


----------



## Unkotare

Eddie seriously has some issues. Position on this or that issue aside, he's just not all there.


----------



## Annika55

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem  is the American public:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trying to excuse failure is  too stupid and perfectly liberal. The Americans most in support of change are black parents whose kids go to worthless hip-hop ghetto schools!! Who is the enemy of voucher schools and charter schools that don't make excuses for failure???? Liberal unions of course!!!
> 
> Did you see Waiting For Superman???
Click to expand...


I agree that minority students have horrific achievement records in our public schools and significant systemic changes are needed. If a parent is interested enough to enroll his child in a private or charter school and transport his child there, that student probably arrives with many of  the benefits of a family that
values education. So the public school loses a group of motivated kids. Charter schools and most private schools do not offer very expensive services to special needs students or to ESL students.
This leaves the public school with the oblgation to provide services for all of the students who need one to one aides, special tutors, hearing and language consultants, physical therapists and differentiated phys ed professionals, psychologists and counselors, special ed teachers with strict limits on class size, unique special needs academic materials, appropriate technology, special transportation vehicles, special mobility devices and power lifts, specially designed lavatories and eating areas  etc. etc. If the general population leaves 
the neighborhood public school, each school will have to provide all of the 
mandated services without the funding attached to each child who leaves the school. Basically, this burden will mean the end of public schools. If I believed charter schools could do better, i might not mourn this loss, but extensive research shows most charter schools are not better than public schools and many are significantly worse. (to be continued)


----------



## Annika55

A Review of WAITING FOR SUPERMAN
The Myth of Charter Schools by Diane Ravitch | The New York Review of Books

"Some fact-checking is in order, and the place to start is with the film&#8217;s quiet acknowledgment that only one in five charter schools is able to get the &#8220;amazing results&#8221; that it celebrates. Nothing more is said about this astonishing statistic. It is drawn from a national study of charter schools by Stanford economist Margaret Raymond (the wife of Hanushek). Known as the CREDO study, it evaluated student progress on math tests in half the nation&#8217;s five thousand charter schools and concluded that 17 percent were superior to a matched traditional public school; 37 percent were worse than the public school; and the remaining 46 percent had academic gains no different from that of a similar public school. The proportion of charters that get amazing results is far smaller than 17 percent.Why did Davis Guggenheim pay no attention to the charter schools that are run by incompetent leaders or corporations mainly concerned to make money? Why propound to an unknowing public the myth that charter schools are the answer to our educational woes, when the filmmaker knows that there are twice as many failing charters as there are successful ones? Why not give an honest accounting?
The propagandistic nature of Waiting for &#8220;Superman&#8221; is revealed by Guggenheim&#8217;s complete indifference to the wide variation among charter schools. There are excellent charter schools, just as there are excellent public schools. Why did he not also inquire into the charter chains that are mired in unsavory real estate deals, or take his camera to the charters where most students are getting lower scores than those in the neighborhood public schools? Why did he not report on the charter principals who have been indicted for embezzlement, or the charters that blur the line between church and state? Why did he not look into the charter schools whose leaders are paid $300,000&#8211;$400,000 a year to oversee small numbers of schools and students?

Guggenheim seems to believe that teachers alone can overcome the effects of student poverty, even though there are countless studies that demonstrate the link between income and test scores. He shows us footage of the pilot Chuck Yeager breaking the sound barrier, to the amazement of people who said it couldn&#8217;t be done. Since Yeager broke the sound barrier, we should be prepared to believe that able teachers are all it takes to overcome the disadvantages of poverty, homelessness, joblessness, poor nutrition, absent parents, etc.
The movie asserts a central thesis in today&#8217;s school reform discussion: the idea that teachers are the most important factor determining student achievement. But this proposition is false. Hanushek has released studies showing that teacher quality accounts for about 7.5&#8211;10 percent of student test score gains. Several other high-quality analyses echo this finding, and while estimates vary a bit, there is a relative consensus: teachers statistically account for around 10&#8211;20 percent of achievement outcomes. Teachers are the most important factor within schools.

But the same body of research shows that nonschool factors matter even more than teachers. According to University of Washington economist Dan Goldhaber, about 60 percent of achievement is explained by nonschool factors, such as family income. So while teachers are the most important factor within schools, their effects pale in comparison with those of students&#8217; backgrounds, families, and other factors beyond the control of schools and teachers. Teachers can have a profound effect on students, but it would be foolish to believe that teachers alone can undo the damage caused by poverty and its associated burdens....
Guggenheim didn&#8217;t bother to take a close look at the heroes of his documentary. Geoffrey Canada is justly celebrated for the creation of the Harlem Children&#8217;s Zone, which not only runs two charter schools but surrounds children and their families with a broad array of social and medical services. Canada has a board of wealthy philanthropists and a very successful fund-raising apparatus. With assets of more than $200 million, his organization has no shortage of funds. Canada himself is currently paid $400,000 annually. For Guggenheim to praise Canada while also claiming that public schools don&#8217;t need any more money is bizarre. Canada&#8217;s charter schools get better results than nearby public schools serving impoverished students. If all inner-city schools had the same resources as his, they might get the same good results.

But contrary to the myth that Guggenheim propounds about &#8220;amazing results,&#8221; even Geoffrey Canada&#8217;s schools have many students who are not proficient. On the 2010 state tests, 60 percent of the fourth-grade students in one of his charter schools were not proficient in reading, nor were 50 percent in the other. It should be noted&#8212;and Guggenheim didn&#8217;t note it&#8212;that Canada kicked out his entire first class of middle school students when they didn&#8217;t get good enough test scores to satisfy his board of trustees. This sad event was documented by Paul Tough in his laudatory account of Canada&#8217;s Harlem Children&#8217;s Zone, Whatever It Takes (2009). Contrary to Guggenheim&#8217;s mythology, even the best-funded charters, with the finest services, can&#8217;t completely negate the effects of poverty.

Guggenheim ignored other clues that might have gotten in the way of a good story. While blasting the teachers&#8217; unions, he points to Finland as a nation whose educational system the US should emulate, not bothering to explain that it has a completely unionized teaching force. His documentary showers praise on testing and accountability, yet he does not acknowledge that Finland seldom tests its students. Any Finnish educator will say that Finland improved its public education system not by privatizing its schools or constantly testing its students, but by investing in the preparation, support, and retention of excellent teachers. It achieved its present eminence not by systematically firing 5&#8211;10 percent of its teachers, but by patiently building for the future. Finland has a national curriculum, which is not restricted to the basic skills of reading and math, but includes the arts, sciences, history, foreign languages, and other subjects that are essential to a good, rounded education. Finland also strengthened its social welfare programs for children and families. Guggenheim simply ignores the realities of the Finnish system."


----------



## Annika55

Additional data comparing US student test scores to those in other countries:
TIMSS Test Data based on 57 countries

At grade 4, the United States was among the top 15 education systems in mathematics (8 education systems had higher averages ( including one US state) and 6 were not measurably different) and scored higher, on average, than 42 education systems.
The 8 education systems with average mathematics scores above the U.S. score were Singapore, Korea, Hong Kong-CHN, Chinese Taipei-CHN, Japan, Northern Ireland-GBR, North Carolina-USA, and Belgium (Flemish)-BEL.

Based on 56 countries
At grade 8, the United States was among the top 24 education systems in mathematics (11 education systems had higher averages (4 of which were actually US STATES) and 12 were not measurably different) and scored higher, on average, than 32 education systems.
The 11 education systems with average mathematics scores above the U.S. score were Korea, Singapore, Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong-CHN, Japan, Massachusetts-USA, Minnesota-USA, the Russian Federation, North Carolina-USA, Quebec-CAN, and Indiana-USA.
(Some states had their students scored as countries)
The percentage of 8th-grade students performing at or above the Advanced international mathematics benchmark in 2011 was higher than in the United States in 11 education systems; was not different in 13 education systems; and was lower than in the United States in 31 education systems.

Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) - Mathematics Achievement of Fourth- and Eighth-Graders in 2011


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Annika55 said:


> Additional data comparing US student test scores to those in other countries:
> TIMSS Test Data based on 57 countries
> 
> At grade 4, the United States was among the top 15 education systems in mathematics (8 education systems had higher averages ( including one US state) and 6 were not measurably different) and scored higher, on average, than 42 education systems.
> The 8 education systems with average mathematics scores above the U.S. score were Singapore, Korea, Hong Kong-CHN, Chinese Taipei-CHN, Japan, Northern Ireland-GBR, North Carolina-USA, and Belgium (Flemish)-BEL.
> 
> Based on 56 countries
> At grade 8, the United States was among the top 24 education systems in mathematics (11 education systems had higher averages (4 of which were actually US STATES) and 12 were not measurably different) and scored higher, on average, than 32 education systems.
> The 11 education systems with average mathematics scores above the U.S. score were Korea, Singapore, Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong-CHN, Japan, Massachusetts-USA, Minnesota-USA, the Russian Federation, North Carolina-USA, Quebec-CAN, and Indiana-USA.
> (Some states had their students scored as countries)
> The percentage of 8th-grade students performing at or above the Advanced international mathematics benchmark in 2011 was higher than in the United States in 11 education systems; was not different in 13 education systems; and was lower than in the United States in 31 education systems.
> 
> Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) - Mathematics Achievement of Fourth- and Eighth-Graders in 2011



Statement of Pascal D. Forgione, Jr., Ph.D.,
U.S. Commissioner of Education Statistics
National Center for Education Statistics (NCES)

Today feels like graduation day for all of us who have spent the last few years working on the TIMSS study. The results of schooling in America are now in. Our most significant finding is that U.S. 12th grade students do not do well. When our graduating seniors are compared to the students graduating secondary school in other countries, our students rank near the bottom. This holds true in both science and math, and for both our typical and our top-level students.
How do we know this? Our 12th graders along with students in their last year of school in more than 20 countries were tested in 1995 as part of the Third International Mathematics and Science Study, better known as TIMSS. The results are included in this report, Pursuing Excellence: A Study of U.S. Twelfth-Grade Mathematics and Science Achievement in International Context. This is the third report from the study. Previous reports covered international comparisons of 4th graders and 8th graders.

In sheer quantitative terms, TIMSS is the world's largest, most comprehensive, and most rigorous international education comparison ever.


----------



## hunarcy

Annika55 said:


> I agree that minority students have horrific achievement records in our public schools and significant systemic changes are needed.




Have you ever been exposed to the work of Dr. Ruby Payne and her work on how economic class affects behaviors and mindsets?  She also explores why students from generational poverty often fear being educated and what she calls the hidden rules within economic classes and how all those factors combine to make the low SES student (not just minority students) fail to achieve in public schools.  

If not, you might check out her books, A Framework for Understanding Poverty and Bridges Out of Poverty.  It can really make a difference.


----------



## Esmeralda

hunarcy said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that minority students have horrific achievement records in our public schools and significant systemic changes are needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever been exposed to the work of Dr. Ruby Payne and her work on how economic class affects behaviors and mindsets?  She also explores why students from generational poverty often fear being educated and what she calls the hidden rules within economic classes and how all those factors combine to make the low SES student (not just minority students) fail to achieve in public schools.
> 
> If not, you might check out her books, A Framework for Understanding Poverty and Bridges Out of Poverty.  It can really make a difference.
Click to expand...


Great post.  People need to realize, and to understand, that the problem with education in America nowadays is not to do with the schools or teachers, it is about the social ills in America.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Esmeralda said:


> Great post.  People need to realize, and to understand, that the problem with education in America nowadays is not to do with the schools or teachers, it is about the social ills in America.



BS liberal excuses to defend the failed liberal status quo at expense of our children. Social ills are at their worst in Harlem but there are huge academic successes there in the charter voucher movement. The only problem is liberals prevent good ideas from spreading.

See "Waiting for Superman" if you want to see how Republican schools can trample the liberal social ills you use as a pathetic excuse!!


----------



## Esmeralda

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great post.  People need to realize, and to understand, that the problem with education in America nowadays is not to do with the schools or teachers, it is about the social ills in America.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BS liberal excuses to defend the failed liberal status quo at expense of our children. Social ills are at their worst in Harlem but there are huge academic successes there in the charter voucher movement. The only problem is liberals prevent good ideas from spreading.
> 
> See "Waiting for Superman" if you want to see how Republican schools can trample the liberal social ills you use as a pathetic excuse!!
Click to expand...


Look at the rest of the world you fucking idiot.  It is proven over and over again that liberalism and unions, your favorite chants, have nothing to do with the success of education.  Of the four top countries for educatiion, two are liberal in politics and social mores and two are conservative.  They are, however, countries without the  monumental social problems  in America. It is clear you had a very unsuccessful experience with American education: you are unable to think with any clarity or to use any critical thinking skills. That is crystal clear with every post you make.  You think life comes down to liberal versus conservative; it doesn't.  If you had a functioning brain cell, you'd realize life is far more complex that that.


----------



## American_Jihad

Esmeralda said:


> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that minority students have horrific achievement records in our public schools and significant systemic changes are needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever been exposed to the work of Dr. Ruby Payne and her work on how economic class affects behaviors and mindsets?  She also explores why students from generational poverty often fear being educated and what she calls the hidden rules within economic classes and how all those factors combine to make the low SES student (not just minority students) fail to achieve in public schools.
> 
> If not, you might check out her books, A Framework for Understanding Poverty and Bridges Out of Poverty.  It can really make a difference.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Great post.  People need to realize, and to understand, that the problem with education in America nowadays is not to do with the schools or teachers, it is about the social ills in America.
Click to expand...


Social ills that came mostly from euroland...


----------



## Esmeralda

American_Jihad said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever been exposed to the work of Dr. Ruby Payne and her work on how economic class affects behaviors and mindsets?  She also explores why students from generational poverty often fear being educated and what she calls the &#8220;hidden rules&#8221; within economic classes and how all those factors combine to make the low SES student (not just minority students) fail to achieve in public schools.
> 
> If not, you might check out her books, A Framework for Understanding Poverty and Bridges Out of Poverty.  It can really make a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post.  People need to realize, and to understand, that the problem with education in America nowadays is not to do with the schools or teachers, it is about the social ills in America.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Social ills that came mostly from euroland...
Click to expand...


Now it's the fault of Europe?  One, don't you realize that it is people like you, the ancestors of European settlers to the New World, who are in such a huff about the disintegration of 'American' values and the traditional family life?  Who are in such a huff about people of color with different cultures "ruining"  the greatness of America?  

If liberal "euroland" is at fault for ruining the US, that is where your ancestors came from.  If you think 'euroland' is at fault for a messed up society in the US, why is it that European countries are not having the same type of widespread problems?  (And don't tell me they are: I've lived there for  years. I also spend about 3 months every year traveling in Europe.  There is no comparison to the US social problems and those of Europe.)  Your reasoning is without  logic or any understanding of historical or current events.


----------



## Annika55

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Additional data comparing US student test scores to those in other countries:
> TIMSS Test Data based on 57 countries
> 
> At grade 4, the United States was among the top 15 education systems in mathematics (8 education systems had higher averages ( including one US state) and 6 were not measurably different) and scored higher, on average, than 42 education systems.
> The 8 education systems with average mathematics scores above the U.S. score were Singapore, Korea, Hong Kong-CHN, Chinese Taipei-CHN, Japan, Northern Ireland-GBR, North Carolina-USA, and Belgium (Flemish)-BEL.
> 
> Based on 56 countries
> At grade 8, the United States was among the top 24 education systems in mathematics (11 education systems had higher averages (4 of which were
> actually US STATES) and 12 were not measurably different) and scored higher, on average, than 32 education systems.
> The 11 education systems with average mathematics scores above the U.S. score were Korea, Singapore, Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong-CHN, Japan, Massachusetts-USA, Minnesota-USA, the Russian Federation, North Carolina-USA, Quebec-CAN, and Indiana-USA.
> (Some states had their students scored as countries)
> The percentage of 8th-grade students performing at or above the Advanced international mathematics benchmark in 2011 was higher than in the United States in 11 education systems; was not different in 13 education systems;
> and was lower than in the United States in 31 education systems.
> 
> Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) - Mathematics Achievement of Fourth- and Eighth-Graders in 2011
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statement of Pascal D. Forgione, Jr., Ph.D.,
> U.S. Commissioner of Education Statistics
> National Center for Education Statistics (NCES)
> 
> Today feels like graduation day for all of us who have spent the last few years working on the TIMSS study. The results of schooling in America are now in. Our most significant finding is that U.S. 12th grade students do not do well. When our graduating seniors are compared to the students graduating secondary school in other countries, our students rank near the bottom. This holds true in both science and math, and for both our typical and our top-level students.
> How do we know this? Our 12th graders along with students in their last year of school in more than 20 countries were tested in 1995 as part of the Third International Mathematics and Science Study, better known as TIMSS. The
> 
> results are included in this report, Pursuing Excellence: A Study of U.S. Twelfth-Grade Mathematics and Science Achievement in International Context. This is the third report from the study. Previous reports covered international comparisons of 4th graders and 8th graders.
> 
> In sheer quantitative terms, TIMSS is the world's largest, most comprehensive, and most rigorous international education comparison ever.
Click to expand...


Why look at scores from 1995 when I have posted the TIMSS scores and comparisons based on 2011 data in multiple posts? I am sure you will be happy to acknowledge the significant improvement in scores and rankings.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Annika55 said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Additional data comparing US student test scores to those in other countries:
> TIMSS Test Data based on 57 countries
> 
> At grade 4, the United States was among the top 15 education systems in mathematics (8 education systems had higher averages ( including one US state) and 6 were not measurably different) and scored higher, on average, than 42 education systems.
> The 8 education systems with average mathematics scores above the U.S. score were Singapore, Korea, Hong Kong-CHN, Chinese Taipei-CHN, Japan, Northern Ireland-GBR, North Carolina-USA, and Belgium (Flemish)-BEL.
> 
> Based on 56 countries
> At grade 8, the United States was among the top 24 education systems in mathematics (11 education systems had higher averages (4 of which were
> actually US STATES) and 12 were not measurably different) and scored higher, on average, than 32 education systems.
> The 11 education systems with average mathematics scores above the U.S. score were Korea, Singapore, Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong-CHN, Japan, Massachusetts-USA, Minnesota-USA, the Russian Federation, North Carolina-USA, Quebec-CAN, and Indiana-USA.
> (Some states had their students scored as countries)
> The percentage of 8th-grade students performing at or above the Advanced international mathematics benchmark in 2011 was higher than in the United States in 11 education systems; was not different in 13 education systems;
> and was lower than in the United States in 31 education systems.
> 
> Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) - Mathematics Achievement of Fourth- and Eighth-Graders in 2011
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Statement of Pascal D. Forgione, Jr., Ph.D.,
> U.S. Commissioner of Education Statistics
> National Center for Education Statistics (NCES)
> 
> Today feels like graduation day for all of us who have spent the last few years working on the TIMSS study. The results of schooling in America are now in. Our most significant finding is that U.S. 12th grade students do not do well. When our graduating seniors are compared to the students graduating secondary school in other countries, our students rank near the bottom. This holds true in both science and math, and for both our typical and our top-level students.
> How do we know this? Our 12th graders along with students in their last year of school in more than 20 countries were tested in 1995 as part of the Third International Mathematics and Science Study, better known as TIMSS. The
> 
> results are included in this report, Pursuing Excellence: A Study of U.S. Twelfth-Grade Mathematics and Science Achievement in International Context. This is the third report from the study. Previous reports covered international comparisons of 4th graders and 8th graders.
> 
> In sheer quantitative terms, TIMSS is the world's largest, most comprehensive, and most rigorous international education comparison ever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why look at scores from 1995 when I have posted the TIMSS scores and comparisons based on 2011 data in multiple posts? I am sure you will be happy to acknowledge the significant improvement in scores and rankings.
Click to expand...


The results of an international assessment released earlier this month show the consequences of America's failure to build on what works in education. American students ranked in the middle of countries participating in the Program for International Student Assessment, or PISA. Underlying the results are the stark differences between practices in the top-performing countries and the prevailing approaches to education in the United States- Randi Weingartner
(teacher union president)


Michelle Rhee, raised eyebrows with Olympics-themed advertisements that portrayed U.S. students as flabby, failed educational Olympians that don't measure up. The ads based that portrayal on America's rankings on the PISA, another international exam that tests students at age 15, whose most recent administration found that out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math.

It is obvious that the liberal monopoly model has failed badly and needs to be replaced quickly with voucher/charter capitalist schools that exist only to the extent they succeed!!


----------



## bodecea

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Annika55 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> Statement of Pascal D. Forgione, Jr., Ph.D.,
> U.S. Commissioner of Education Statistics
> National Center for Education Statistics (NCES)
> 
> Today feels like graduation day for all of us who have spent the last few years working on the TIMSS study. The results of schooling in America are now in. Our most significant finding is that U.S. 12th grade students do not do well. When our graduating seniors are compared to the students graduating secondary school in other countries, our students rank near the bottom. This holds true in both science and math, and for both our typical and our top-level students.
> How do we know this? Our 12th graders along with students in their last year of school in more than 20 countries were tested in 1995 as part of the Third International Mathematics and Science Study, better known as TIMSS. The
> 
> results are included in this report, Pursuing Excellence: A Study of U.S. Twelfth-Grade Mathematics and Science Achievement in International Context. This is the third report from the study. Previous reports covered international comparisons of 4th graders and 8th graders.
> 
> In sheer quantitative terms, TIMSS is the world's largest, most comprehensive, and most rigorous international education comparison ever.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why look at scores from 1995 when I have posted the TIMSS scores and comparisons based on 2011 data in multiple posts? I am sure you will be happy to acknowledge the significant improvement in scores and rankings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The results of an international assessment released earlier this month show the consequences of America's failure to build on what works in education. American students ranked in the middle of countries participating in the Program for International Student Assessment, or PISA. Underlying the results are the stark differences between practices in the top-performing countries and the prevailing approaches to education in the United States- Randi Weingartner
> (teacher union president)
> 
> 
> Michelle Rhee, raised eyebrows with Olympics-themed advertisements that portrayed U.S. students as flabby, failed educational Olympians that don't measure up. The ads based that portrayal on America's rankings on the PISA, another international exam that tests students at age 15, whose most recent administration found that out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 14th in reading, 17th in science and 25th in math.
> 
> It is obvious that the liberal monopoly model has failed badly and needs to be replaced quickly with *voucher/charter capitalist schools* that exist only to the extent they succeed!!
Click to expand...


Actually, ONLY if that's the form of school that is set up in those countries doing better than us.   For example, Germany uses Tracking early on and has a STRONG vocational track for those not college bound.  And S. Korea has school about 2 months longer than the U.S.   How about we try that stuff first.


Oh....and how many are aware that when it comes to measuring student scores, most of the top countries only test their top college bound students while the U.S. submits student scores from all U.S. students?


----------



## American_Jihad

*Georgia High School Teachers: &#8216;Political Advocates&#8217; for Illegal Aliens*

March 13, 2013 
By Mary Grabar








Less than three weeks after two Athens, Georgia, high school English teachers appeared with formerly &#8220;undocumented&#8221; students at the Association of Teacher Educators conference in Atlanta, Georgia, a protest for &#8220;education equality&#8221; was held in Athens on the campus of the University of Georgia, one of five top state schools that restrict their access in order to save space for legal residents and returning soldiers.  No surprise, one of these teachers was quoted in the lengthy follow-up article on March 9 titled, &#8220;Undocumented students face hurdles to higher ed.&#8221;


 I attended the conference to hear *Bill Ayers*, and saw that these educators had much in common: they saw their roles primarily as advocates, not educators.  ATE, however, claims to be &#8220;devoted solely to the improvement of teacher education&#8221; and to represent over 650 colleges and universities, 500 major school systems, and the majority of state departments of education

The advocacy includes that on behalf of illegal alien students, at the expense of other students.  The panel, &#8220;Immigration and Education: Critical Issues, Critical Times,&#8221; featured JoBeth Allen, who runs a &#8220;Freedom University&#8221; for students prohibited from attending the University of Georgia, and Azadeh Shahshahani, president of the Lawyers Guild and director for &#8220;immigrant rights&#8221; at the ACLU Foundation of Georgia.

Also on the ATE panel were two English teachers from the two public high schools in Athens: Matthew Hicks of Cedar Shoals High School and Ian Altman of Clarke Central High School.

...

Georgia High School Teachers: ?Political Advocates? for Illegal Aliens


----------



## IanC

a lot of the problem is comparing apples to oranges. if you separate out american whites they do better than the worldwide white average. if you separate out american blacks they do much much better than the worldwide black average.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Florida Atlantic University: Another Left-Wing Seminary*​
March 27, 2013 
By Dennis Prager

Question: What is the difference between Christian seminaries and American universities?

Answer: Christian seminaries announce that their purpose is to produce committed Christians. American universities do not admit that their primary purpose is to produce committed leftists. They claim that their purpose is to open students minds.

This month Florida Atlantic University provided yet another example of how universities have become left-wing seminaries.

An FAU professor told his students to write JESUS (in bold caps) on a piece of paper and then step on it.

One student who did not, a junior named Ryan Rotela, complained to the professor and then to the professors supervisor. He explained that he had refused to do so because it violated his religious principles.

Two days later, Rotela was told not to attend the class anymore. The university then went on to defend the professor in an email to a local CBS TV station: Faculty and students at academic institutions pursue knowledge and engage in open discourse. While at times the topics discussed may be sensitive, a university environment is a venue for such dialogue and debate.

FAU further pointed out that the stomping exercise  to discuss the importance of symbols in culture  came from a textbook titled Intercultural Communication: A Contextual Approach.

...

Florida Atlantic University: Another Left-Wing Seminary


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

IanC said:


> a lot of the problem is comparing apples to oranges. if you separate out american whites they do better than the worldwide white average. if you separate out american blacks they do much much better than the worldwide black average.



I figured blacks and white  were equals, not apples and oranges, but I suppose you're right in a sense since blacks were targeted more by the liberal programs that so destroyed them.

So its not that blacks are oranges but rather they are victims of liberal programs.


----------



## markcantoo

The only 'religion' that is protected in our country is Islam.  You can attack Catholics, Protestants, Jewish people. But just disagree with the Muslim beliefs and you are branded as intolerant.


----------



## Unkotare

American_Jihad said:


> *Florida Atlantic University: Another Left-Wing Seminary*​
> March 27, 2013
> By Dennis Prager
> 
> Question: What is the difference between Christian seminaries and American universities?
> 
> Answer: Christian seminaries announce that their purpose is to produce committed Christians. American universities do not admit that their primary purpose is to produce committed leftists. They claim that their purpose is to open students minds.
> 
> This month Florida Atlantic University provided yet another example of how universities have become left-wing seminaries.
> 
> An FAU professor told his students to write JESUS (in bold caps) on a piece of paper and then step on it.
> 
> One student who did not, a junior named Ryan Rotela, complained to the professor and then to the professors supervisor. He explained that he had refused to do so because it violated his religious principles.
> 
> Two days later, Rotela was told not to attend the class anymore. The university then went on to defend the professor in an email to a local CBS TV station: Faculty and students at academic institutions pursue knowledge and engage in open discourse. While at times the topics discussed may be sensitive, a university environment is a venue for such dialogue and debate.
> 
> FAU further pointed out that the stomping exercise  to discuss the importance of symbols in culture  came from a textbook titled Intercultural Communication: A Contextual Approach.
> 
> ...
> 
> Florida Atlantic University: Another Left-Wing Seminary




Militant secularists imposing their version of the _fumie_~

Daughters of St. Paul --History of the Japanese Catholic Church


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

markcantoo said:


> The only 'religion' that is protected in our country is Islam.  You can attack Catholics, Protestants, Jewish people. But just disagree with the Muslim beliefs and you are branded as intolerant.



yes we are a liberal country so have great sympathy for Muslims since they hate the USA too


----------



## American_Jihad

Beverly L. Hall, shown in 2011, and 34 teachers and staff were indicted Friday on multiple charges related to one of the largest school cheating scandals in U.S. history.

*Ex-Head of Atlanta Schools Indicted in Cheating Probe *​
3/29/13
By CAMERON MCWHIRTER and STEPHANIE BANCHERO 


ATLANTAThe former superintendent of one of the nation's largest urban public-school systems and 34 teachers and staff were indicted Friday by a state grand jury here on multiple charges related to one of the largest school cheating scandals in U.S. history.

The charges against Beverly L. Hall and others who worked in the Atlanta Public School system during her administration include racketeering, influencing witnesses, making false statements and writings and theft by taking. 

Those indicted include top school officials in the administration of Ms. Hall.

...

Ex-Head of Atlanta Schools Indicted in Cheating Probe - WSJ.com


----------



## Samson

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> 
> a lot of the problem is comparing apples to oranges. if you separate out american whites they do better than the worldwide white average. if you separate out american blacks they do much much better than the worldwide black average.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I figured blacks and white  were equals, not apples and oranges, but I suppose you're right in a sense since blacks were targeted more by the liberal programs that so destroyed them.
> 
> So its not that blacks are oranges but rather they are victims of liberal programs.
Click to expand...


Which "liberal programs" would those be?

Which ones do black leaders complain about?


----------



## JakeStarkey

Because of Bush and the No Child Left Behind law.



American_Jihad said:


> Cheating by teachers and administrators in the 55,000-student Atlanta ...
> 
> 
> 
> *Paper reports standardized test insecurity among states in U.S.*​
> Associated Press
> Posted: Sunday, September 30, 2012
> 
> ATLANTA  The federal government has no standards to protect the integrity of the achievement tests it requires in tens of thousands of public schools, and test security among the states is so inconsistent that Americans cant be sure those all-important test scores are legitimate, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.
> 
> The newspaper surveyed the 50 state education departments and found that many states do not use basic test security measures designed to prevent cheating. And nearly half the states, the newspaper found, make almost no attempt to screen test results for irregularities.
> 
> That kind of lax oversight contributed to the cheating scandal that swept Atlanta schools in 2009, the newspaper said in a story that appeared online Saturday. Evidence of widespread cheating is now emerging in Philadelphia, Columbus, Ohio, El Paso, Texas, and other cities around the country. The Journal-Constitution reported earlier this year that it had found patterns of suspicious changes in test scores in nearly 200 school districts nationwide.
> 
> ---
> A teacher at a Phoenix elementary school, for example, told a colleague that shed used red and green M&Ms during a test to nudge students toward the right answers. If she set a red M&M on a childs desk, that signaled the pupil had the wrong answer and should do the problem over again. If she put a green one on the desk, that meant the child had the right answer and should move on.
> 
> ---
> 
> Paper reports standardized test insecurity among states in U.S. | The Eagle | Bryan/College Station, Texas - The Eagle


----------



## Samson

JakeStarkey said:


> Because of Bush and the No Child Left Behind law.





American_Jihad said:


> ATLANTA &#8212; The federal government has no standards to protect the integrity of the achievement tests it requires in tens of thousands of public schools, and test security among the states is so inconsistent that Americans can&#8217;t be sure those all-important test scores are legitimate, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.





You think the feds should have spelled-out instructions for teachers how not to cheat?


----------



## JakeStarkey

I think the feds should not have been setting standards.

And our broken legislatures reached out with greedy hands for the fed money.

Samson, quit being a dope.  Every administrator and teacher needs to go to jail who cheats: every one.


----------



## IanC

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> IanC said:
> 
> 
> 
> a lot of the problem is comparing apples to oranges. if you separate out american whites they do better than the worldwide white average. if you separate out american blacks they do much much better than the worldwide black average.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I figured blacks and white  were equals, not apples and oranges, but I suppose you're right in a sense since blacks were targeted more by the liberal programs that so destroyed them.
> 
> So its not that blacks are oranges but rather they are victims of liberal programs.
Click to expand...




really? do all countries in the world have 'liberal programs' that victimize blacks? because something is definitely holding them down. fortunately the american 'liberal programs' seem to hold them down to a lesser extent than most places elsewhere.


----------



## IanC

Samson said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because of Bush and the No Child Left Behind law.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> ATLANTA  The federal government has no standards to protect the integrity of the achievement tests it requires in tens of thousands of public schools, and test security among the states is so inconsistent that Americans cant be sure those all-important test scores are legitimate, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You think the feds should have spelled-out instructions for teachers how not to cheat?
Click to expand...




lol

the feds may not have laid out instructions on how not to cheat but they certainly laid out guidelines on how you will be punished for low performance of your students. a rather strong incentive for cheating, so I am not all that surprised it has popped up with increasing frequency.


----------



## Too Tall

Esmeralda said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem  is the American public:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trying to excuse failure is  too stupid and perfectly liberal. The Americans most in support of change are black parents whose kids go to worthless hip-hop ghetto schools!! Who is the enemy of voucher schools and charter schools that don't make excuses for failure???? Liberal unions of course!!!
> 
> Did you see Waiting For Superman???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You think teachers would prefer to maintain the quality of ghetto schools, would prefer to teach in them rathern than better schools?  Unions are not the enemy of anything that improves the quality of the job for teachers.  Keeping schools in bad condition is not something teachers or unions support.  Try to use some critical thinking skills. Possibly you didn't get any because you didn't pay attention in school. Possibly you hate the American school system because you were a failure in it: which is your fault and no one else's. Take responsibility for your own failures and stop hating all teachers and all of the American school system because you were miserable in it.
> 
> The reason schools in America are not performing is because of the social problems in America--which is much of what I mean by 'the American public' being the problem.  The schools expend at least half their time, engery, and focus on dealing with social problems. In schools like those you mention, it is more like 90%.  Change the society so the social problems are reduced, find other ways to deal with them, etc., and schools can go back to focusing on education. I know that one reason schools in Europe and Asia do better is because traditional values in the family are stronger and remain intact. And don't throw in yet another myth, that it is feminism that has ruined the American family: women in Europe are just as liberated as American women: I've lived in Europe; feminism is just as strong there as in the States.  Europeans have adapted to women being free and equal and have still maintained strong family units.  The problem is not unions, the problem is not liberalism (Europeans are far more liberal than Americans), the problem is not Unions.  The problem is American social ills.
Click to expand...


You do have a point.  What percentage of the population in Europe and/or Asia have a population where 40% of the children are born to single mothers?


----------



## editec

US schools have mostly always had standardized testing.

They were called ACHIEVEMENT TESTS and even waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the 50's they were standardly given.

What IS different now is that the FEDERAL GOVERMENT is paying (or not paying) money to the school based on the aggregate outcomes of those tests.

That is basically the ONLY difference, far as I can see.


----------



## JakeStarkey

The "golden handcuffs" is the term given to indicate the co-option of employees through better than average salaries and perks given by employers.

In this case, the federal government has golden handcuffed the educational administrators from fed to local levels.  The administrators will not change because it is their standard of living that changes.

The only way to break it is the creation of more private schools.


----------



## Samson

editec said:


> US schools have mostly always had standardized testing.
> 
> They were called ACHIEVEMENT TESTS and even waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the 50's they were standardly given.
> 
> What IS different now is that the FEDERAL GOVERMENT is paying (or not paying) money to the school based on the aggregate outcomes of those tests.
> 
> That is basically the ONLY difference, far as I can see.



I assume by "the only difference" you mean in the context of standardized testing....just for whites, who volunteered to take the tests (before Federally mandated integration)....before there were no "Individuals with Disabilities" Federally mandated into the school system....and there was no Federal Free and Reduced Lunch program.

Yeah, the ONLY difference......


----------



## Samson

JakeStarkey said:


> The "golden handcuffs" is the term given to indicate the co-option of employees through better than average salaries and perks given by employers.





I thought it was called a "Cash Bonus" for performance that met or exceeded employer expectations.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Samson said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "golden handcuffs" is the term given to indicate the co-option of employees through better than average salaries and perks given by employers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was called a "Cash Bonus" for performance that met or exceeded employer expectations.
Click to expand...


That is one benign explanation but not the only one.


----------



## Trajan

those effing honkey bastards!!! 

just another example of southern strategy former dems cum republicans keepin' da potential bruddas down....


----------



## Trajan

JakeStarkey said:


> Because of Bush and the No Child Left Behind law.
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheating by teachers and administrators in the 55,000-student Atlanta ...
> 
> 
> 
> *Paper reports standardized test insecurity among states in U.S.*​
> Associated Press
> Posted: Sunday, September 30, 2012
> 
> ATLANTA  The federal government has no standards to protect the integrity of the achievement tests it requires in tens of thousands of public schools, and test security among the states is so inconsistent that Americans cant be sure those all-important test scores are legitimate, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported.
> 
> The newspaper surveyed the 50 state education departments and found that many states do not use basic test security measures designed to prevent cheating. And nearly half the states, the newspaper found, make almost no attempt to screen test results for irregularities.
> 
> That kind of lax oversight contributed to the cheating scandal that swept Atlanta schools in 2009, the newspaper said in a story that appeared online Saturday. Evidence of widespread cheating is now emerging in Philadelphia, Columbus, Ohio, El Paso, Texas, and other cities around the country. The Journal-Constitution reported earlier this year that it had found patterns of suspicious changes in test scores in nearly 200 school districts nationwide.
> 
> ---
> A teacher at a Phoenix elementary school, for example, told a colleague that shed used red and green M&Ms during a test to nudge students toward the right answers. If she set a red M&M on a childs desk, that signaled the pupil had the wrong answer and should do the problem over again. If she put a green one on the desk, that meant the child had the right answer and should move on.
> 
> ---
> 
> Paper reports standardized test insecurity among states in U.S. | The Eagle | Bryan/College Station, Texas - The Eagle
Click to expand...


oh but of course

 I mean I knew it had to be a republican ( white!!! too  I bet)  fault somewhere..( proof of whiteness to come)..



man are you challenged or what?


 you go to one of those schools Jake, you sound like you got _very_ short changed too....


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Too Tall said:


> You do have a point.  What percentage of the population in Europe and/or Asia have a population where 40% of the children are born to single mothers?


True enough, the devil liberal has destroyed the American family and made the job of schools much much harder. The schools however can't work much much harder because they too are controlled by the devil liberal's unions.

Unions want to produce easier jobs and higher pay, not better students. This is how they drove 30 million manufacturing jobs offshore.

We all know its true so why not make unions illegal again???


----------



## psikeyhackr

Is there a simple table somewhere showing what ideas a child is supposed to UNDERSTAND at what age?  I said "understand" not memorize.  That is the trouble with most testing that I have submitted to.  I could memorize and regurgitate without understanding squat if I wanted to.

The only test I ever cheated on was a history test.  I regarded it as useless crap that I didn't want to take anyway.  I never cheated on a math test and got A's in that.

So I have mixed feelings about this Atlanta cheating.  What evidence is there that the kids in districts that do well on these tests actually UNDERSTAND much?

Our educators can't create or even talk about creating a National Recommended Reading List but even those who don't cheat on this testing system complain about it.  If the schools are producing dumb kids who can pass stupidly designed tests then how is that worse than cheating on stupidly designed tests?

psik


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

psikeyhackr said:


> What evidence is there that the kids in districts that do well on these tests actually UNDERSTAND much?




too stupid!! they obviously understand a lot more than kids who don't do well on the tests!!


----------



## JakeStarkey

> you go to one of those schools Jake



I went to a lower middle-class Anglo-Hispanic school in southern California.

This is not just a GOP issue, but also a Dem issue, who supported the assholes who rammed the equivalent through Texas and then nationally.

Anyone who has served on school boards in the last twenty years (and I have as member and board president) has seen what the NCLB debacle has caused in public education.

The only salvation has been the parents and teachers lifting mountains to make sure the students are taught proplery.


----------



## American_Jihad

Homeschooling


----------



## Trajan

JakeStarkey said:


> you go to one of those schools Jake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I went to a lower middle-class Anglo-Hispanic school in southern California.
> 
> This is not just a GOP issue, but also a Dem issue, who supported the assholes who rammed the equivalent through Texas and then nationally.
> 
> Anyone who has served on school boards in the last twenty years (and I have as member and board president) has seen what the NCLB debacle has caused in public education.
> 
> The only salvation has been the parents and teachers lifting mountains to make sure the students are taught *proplery.*
Click to expand...


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

psikeyhackr said:


> What evidence is there that the kids in districts that do well on these tests actually UNDERSTAND much?



Libturds hate tests because tests don't lie!! Our kids are the dumbest in the world yet libturds don't want to test them in order to cover up even further how badly the students and teachers are doing!


----------



## American_Jihad

I see someone playing with the thread title, what you got nothing better to do...


----------



## American_Jihad

American_Jihad said:


> I see someone playing with the thread title, what you got nothing better to do...



Thanks for fixing the title back to original...


----------



## American_Jihad

*Texas School Counselor Relieved of All Duties Over Shockingly Racist Post After Fertilizer Explosion: WhitesSoon Will Be Wiped from the Earth*


Apr. 19, 2013 
Mike Opelka 

According to her profile on the popular networking website Linked In, Karon Wright describes her professional aspirations this way:

Eager to bring students into the twenty-first century using a unique combination of education and counseling experience coupled with thirteen years of healthcare background in physical medicine and rehabilitative counseling.








...

Texas School Counselor ?Relieved of All Duties? Over Shockingly Racist Post After Fertilizer Explosion: ?Whites?Soon Will Be Wiped from the Earth? | TheBlaze.com


----------



## American_Jihad

*Teachers in MI stand behind a colleague convicted of rape  Glenn speaks to the victims father*​
Monday, Aug 19, 2013 

On radio this morning, Glenn shared the story of John Janczewski, a resident of Rose City, Michigan whose son was molested by a teacher, Neal Erickson, at Rose City Middle School. The sexual abuse happened on several occasions when Janczewskis son was in 8th grade. The boy is now a sophomore in college.

Erickson was convicted of statutory rape after a picture surfaced of the boy in a compromising position with the teacher. On July 10, 2013, the judge sentenced Erickson to 15-30 years in prison, but six educators and one school board member came out in support of the teacher and asked for leniency. According to The Detriot News:

Before the sentencing, six teachers and two retired ones wrote letters to the judge asking for leniency.

None of the teachers condoned what Erickson did. Instead, their letters focused on his 17 years of teaching, describing his popularity with students and teachers, how hard he worked and how often he volunteered for school functions.

Parents in the town have since called for the firing of the teachers and board member who have defended. The town has balked at the requests claiming the firings would result in expensive litigation that would drive the city into bankruptcy. Tonight at the Ogemaw Heights High School auditorium at 7pm, there will be a meeting to decide the fate of the administrators.

Glenn spoke with Janczewski this morning about the impact this ordeal has had on his family, who have endured a string of vandalism and threats since the verdict was handed down.

...

Teachers in MI stand behind a colleague convicted of rape ? Glenn speaks to the victim?s father ? Glenn Beck


----------



## tubig

Dont Taz Me Bro said:


> Throw all of these standardized tests out the fucking window. The feds have no business being involved in public education. It has generally been and should remain a local matter.


 
And the *dumb states* get dumber.


----------



## American_Jihad

tubig said:


> Dont Taz Me Bro said:
> 
> 
> 
> Throw all of these standardized tests out the fucking window. The feds have no business being involved in public education. It has generally been and should remain a local matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the *dumb states* get dumber.
Click to expand...


Oh look another big gubment liberal...


...


----------



## American_Jihad

*Philadelphia schools are being murdered, and liberals like it that way*​
August 23, 2013 
By Christopher Randolph 

In "Letters from the Earth," Mark Twain differentiated between rotely mumbled Sunday prayers and "supplications of the heart," an individual's core desires and beliefs. In Twain's story a coal executive prays for the poor on Sunday and profits from their misfortunes the remainder of the week, having wished in his heart for a rise in coal prices regardless of social pain. The reader learns that Twain's angel clerks have been processing the deeper desires as the actual prayer.

As we witness the systematic murder of Philadelphia's public schools and the destruction of the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers, most self-identified liberals mumble kind words about the need for fairness to student and teacher alike, bright futures and equal education for all. It is evident that the knuckle-draggers in Harrisburg have an unreconstructed racist hatred and fear of all things urban, and my message is not for them. We can at least credit them with a crude honesty and credit slow-witted Gov. Tom Corbett with actions matching his rhetoric.

Rather, we need concern ourselves with the (neo)liberal, whose supplications of the heart manifest in a core belief that the African-Americans, Latinos and Asian-Americans who overwhelmingly populate urban districts were a lost cause at conception, and that these students are not deserving of anything approaching equitable education, especially if this would in any small way inconvenience real estate speculators. Beyond this, the liberal typically believes that urban teachers are not professionals, are not doing a "real job" in the "real world," and are not worth paying as they serve no useful social function.

The Democratic Party has now run Philadelphia longer than any single party held sway in any country of the Soviet bloc; it becomes impossible to hang the priorities manifested in its taxation, budgeting and expenditure on the admittedly nasty Republicans. Similarly it becomes impossible to state that the zombie march of registered Democrats to the polls overwhelmingly to elect and re-re-re-elect our native criminal class  often by pushing one button for all offices so as not to waste time reading each individual candidate's name  is the result of unfamiliarity with those priorities. The only conclusion is that, under it all, our gentle liberals, meek and mild, like what they see and want more of it.

...

Philadelphia schools are being murdered, and liberals like it that way ? NewsWorks


----------



## American_Jihad

*Loving and Hating America*

October 22, 2013 By Walter Williams






As Ive documented in the past, many leftist teachers teach our youngsters to hate our country. For example, University of Hawaii Professor Haunani-Kay Trask counseled her students, We need to think very, very clearly about who the enemy is. The enemy is the United States of America and everyone who supports it. Some universities hire former terrorists to teach and indoctrinate students. Kathy Boudin, former Weather Underground member and convicted murderer, is on the Columbia University School of Social Works faculty. Her Weather Underground comrade William Ayers teaches at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Bernardine Dohrn, his wife, is a professor at Northwestern University School of Law. Her stated mission is to overthrow capitalism.

...

Im wondering how the hate-America/blame-America-first crowd might explain the fact that so many people in the world, if they had a chance, would permanently relocate here. Maybe its that they havent been exposed to enough U.S. university professors.

Loving and Hating America | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## Samson

American_Jihad said:


> *Loving and Hating America*
> 
> October 22, 2013 By Walter Williams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I&#8217;ve documented in the past, many leftist teachers teach our youngsters to hate our country. For example, University of Hawaii Professor Haunani-Kay Trask counseled her students, &#8220;We need to think very, very clearly about who the enemy is. The enemy is the United States of America and everyone who supports it.&#8221; Some universities hire former terrorists to teach and indoctrinate students. Kathy Boudin, former Weather Underground member and convicted murderer, is on the Columbia University School of Social Work&#8217;s faculty. Her Weather Underground comrade William Ayers teaches at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Bernardine Dohrn, his wife, is a professor at Northwestern University School of Law. Her stated mission is to overthrow capitalism.
> 
> ...
> 
> I&#8217;m wondering how the hate-America/blame-America-first crowd might explain the fact that so many people in the world, if they had a chance, would permanently relocate here. Maybe it&#8217;s that they haven&#8217;t been exposed to enough U.S. university professors.
> 
> Loving and Hating America | FrontPage Magazine



I think you may be giving much more credability to these professor's influance over university students than the actually have: Like every population, Professors have their attention whores. The vast majority of students recognize this, as well as the fact they will need a job after graduation.


----------



## American_Jihad

Samson said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Loving and Hating America*
> 
> October 22, 2013 By Walter Williams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As Ive documented in the past, many leftist teachers teach our youngsters to hate our country. For example, University of Hawaii Professor Haunani-Kay Trask counseled her students, We need to think very, very clearly about who the enemy is. The enemy is the United States of America and everyone who supports it. Some universities hire former terrorists to teach and indoctrinate students. Kathy Boudin, former Weather Underground member and convicted murderer, is on the Columbia University School of Social Works faculty. Her Weather Underground comrade William Ayers teaches at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Bernardine Dohrn, his wife, is a professor at Northwestern University School of Law. Her stated mission is to overthrow capitalism.
> 
> ...
> 
> Im wondering how the hate-America/blame-America-first crowd might explain the fact that so many people in the world, if they had a chance, would permanently relocate here. Maybe its that they havent been exposed to enough U.S. university professors.
> 
> Loving and Hating America | FrontPage Magazine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you may be giving much more credability to these professor's influance over university students than the actually have: Like every population, Professors have their attention whores. The vast majority of students recognize this, as well as the fact they will need a job after graduation.
Click to expand...


I know, a lot of my friends play liberal to get the grade and f__k the sys...


----------



## JakeStarkey

AJ, grow up, please.

Students have always done so.


----------



## American_Jihad

*The Resident Anti-Semite of The Nation and UC Santa Barbara*

November 5, 2013 By Ronn Torossian






Universities and respectable publications wouldnt dare to employ a Ku Klux Klansman or someone who spewed hatred against homosexuals.  If, however, it is Jews that someone speaks about, then the rules are different.

Richard Falk is a man who blames the Boston marathon terrorist attack on Israel (and America)  and shouldnt be employed by government organizations, media or academic institutions.  That same man has claimed that the 9/11 World Trade Center attack was an American government conspiracy.  He posted on his website a blood-soaked dog eating bones, urinating on lady justice  wearing a yarmulke with a Jewish star.

...

This PR firm CEO says immediately, The Nation and The University of California, Santa Barbara should cut all ties to Richard Falk. It is disgraceful to employ  and encourage  and pay someone with viewpoints like these.

The Resident Anti-Semite of ?The Nation? and UC Santa Barbara | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*University of Oregon Pays Speaker $24k to Talk Fisting and Gorilla Suit Fetishes*​
11.4.2013 |Truth Revolt |

Warning: The following contains graphic content.

The shameful descent of our institutions of higher learning gets another anecdote, this time from the University of Oregon, which paid a sex-advice pundit $24,000 to speak to students about kinks and fetishes, including fisting and gorilla suit sex. Perhaps worse, the event was part of a launch for UOs new "shame-free" (kinky) sex smart phone app. 

From The College Fix:

The notoriously raunchy and popular homosexual sex advice columnist and pundit Dan Savage visited the University of Oregon in mid-October, and more recently it was revealed thanks to a public records request that he was paid $24,000 for his talk, which included discussions with students about the art of fisting and gorilla suit fetishes.

The regions daily newspaper, The Register-Guard, confirmed the $24k compensation. The Daily Emerald, the campus newspaper provided some of the lurid details:

...throughout the lecture, Savage addressed questions of a wide variety of sexual topics including the importance of sexual education, to kinks and fetishes, experimentation and communication as well as same-sex marriage. As he flipped through from card to card, he answered questions dealing with the sexual act of fisting to gorilla suit fetishes; the roaring response from the audience was unanimous.

The Register-Guard also revealed that Savages visit was part of a launch party for a new shame-free sex-ed smart phone app designed by the university. As the College Fix points out, the sex-ed app offers students suggestions and advice on kinky sex:

Did you ever play twister as a kid? Well, toss in sex and smartphones, and youve got the University of Oregons new SexPositive App, ostensibly developed as a sex health tool. It spins two wheels with words such as mouth finger and penis on one side and toes vagina vibrator and anal play on the other. Match two words and have at it, basically.

As The College Fix reminds us, "all this 'sex ed' is on the taxpayers' dime."

University of Oregon Pays Speaker $24k to Talk Fisting and Gorilla Suit Fetishes | Truth Revolt


----------



## Esmeralda

American Jihad, it seems as though you are against indoctrination, against flooding someone's consciousness with ideas that have a goal, an agenda, that are biased in favor of one perspective. But, in reading all your posts on this thread, it seems to me that is exactly what you are doing.  

All of your posts are flagrantly didactic epistles meant to sway the readers' opinion against those who teach in American schools and American schools themselves, and, as well, to convince the reader that schools and teachers are all liberal with a liberal agenda meant to indoctrinate and control the minds of the students.

However, nothing we will find in any educational facility is any stronger, if indeed it is as strong, or more strongly worded or intensely didactic, than your own posts, which very obviously have their own agenda and mean to teach a lesson, your lesson, and your perspective on the world.  I think you would do well to get a PhD in some field and apply for a teaching position at one of these institutions you are so ardently against so that you may, as you say others do, teach your own agenda but on a much wider scale than you are doing here.  

Then maybe you'd be happy and not so all fired up and full of anger and resentment.  You&#8217;re going to develop heart disease if you don&#8217;t have it already.  My main point is that what you are doing in this tread is no different than what you are accusing others of doing.  You too have an agenda. You too have a perspective. 

It is the tradition of colleges and universities to hire teachers who are not just teachers but writers, artists, journalists, thinkers, philosophers, etc., people who have diverse ideas to share with the students. It is the tradition of higher education to teach students to think and to accept or dismiss the varied ideas of their professors. 

If you and others come out of college thinking you had to quell your own ideas in order to get good grades, you missed the point. If you believe any professor based his/her evaluation of you based on you accepting or not accepting that professor&#8217;s position, you should have made a formal complaint instead of pretending you believed things you didn&#8217;t believe.  I once taught rhetoric at the college level. I had many students who wrote argumentative papers expressing positions diametrically opposed to my own personal opinions. I never based a grade on the student agreeing with me. I often, regularly, gave A grades to papers against gun control and abortion, for example, if the paper was well written.   The quality of the argument and the writing were the only factors on which grades were based.  Any instructor who bases a grade on a student agreeing with him needs to be reported. 

Universities hire professors or speakers with what seems to you very biased or outrageous ideas because they are supposed to be opening the minds of their students, offering them new ideas, thinking outside the box ideas, a kaleidoscope of ideas for the students to ponder and accept or reject as individual thinkers.  

But you don&#8217;t seem to recognize you are doing what you accuse others of doing: trying to sway people to your way of seeing the world.  I wanted to point that out to you. Think about it.


----------



## American_Jihad

Esmeralda said:


> American Jihad, it seems as though you are against indoctrination, against flooding someone's consciousness with ideas that have a goal, an agenda, that are biased in favor of one perspective. But, in reading all your posts on this thread, it seems to me that is exactly what you are doing.
> 
> All of your posts are flagrantly didactic epistles meant to sway the readers' opinion against those who teach in American schools and American schools themselves, and, as well, to convince the reader that schools and teachers are all liberal with a liberal agenda meant to indoctrinate and control the minds of the students.
> 
> However, nothing we will find in any educational facility is any stronger, if indeed it is as strong, or more strongly worded or intensely didactic, than your own posts, which very obviously have their own agenda and mean to teach a lesson, your lesson, and your perspective on the world.  I think you would do well to get a PhD in some field and apply for a teaching position at one of these institutions you are so ardently against so that you may, as you say others do, teach your own agenda but on a much wider scale than you are doing here.
> 
> Then maybe you'd be happy and not so all fired up and full of anger and resentment.  Youre going to develop heart disease if you dont have it already.  My main point is that what you are doing in this tread is no different than what you are accusing others of doing.  You too have an agenda. You too have a perspective.
> 
> It is the tradition of colleges and universities to hire teachers who are not just teachers but writers, artists, journalists, thinkers, philosophers, etc., people who have diverse ideas to share with the students. It is the tradition of higher education to teach students to think and to accept or dismiss the varied ideas of their professors.
> 
> If you and others come out of college thinking you had to quell your own ideas in order to get good grades, you missed the point. If you believe any professor based his/her evaluation of you based on you accepting or not accepting that professors position, you should have made a formal complaint instead of pretending you believed things you didnt believe.  I once taught rhetoric at the college level. I had many students who wrote argumentative papers expressing positions diametrically opposed to my own personal opinions. I never based a grade on the student agreeing with me. I often, regularly, gave A grades to papers against gun control and abortion, for example, if the paper was well written.   The quality of the argument and the writing were the only factors on which grades were based.  Any instructor who bases a grade on a student agreeing with him needs to be reported.
> 
> Universities hire professors or speakers with what seems to you very biased or outrageous ideas because they are supposed to be opening the minds of their students, offering them new ideas, thinking outside the box ideas, a kaleidoscope of ideas for the students to ponder and accept or reject as individual thinkers.
> 
> But you dont seem to recognize you are doing what you accuse others of doing: trying to sway people to your way of seeing the world.  I wanted to point that out to you. Think about it.



Typical Long winded liberal spiel =


----------



## Esmeralda

American_Jihad said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> American Jihad, it seems as though you are against indoctrination, against flooding someone's consciousness with ideas that have a goal, an agenda, that are biased in favor of one perspective. But, in reading all your posts on this thread, it seems to me that is exactly what you are doing.
> 
> All of your posts are flagrantly didactic epistles meant to sway the readers' opinion against those who teach in American schools and American schools themselves, and, as well, to convince the reader that schools and teachers are all liberal with a liberal agenda meant to indoctrinate and control the minds of the students.
> 
> However, nothing we will find in any educational facility is any stronger, if indeed it is as strong, or more strongly worded or intensely didactic, than your own posts, which very obviously have their own agenda and mean to teach a lesson, your lesson, and your perspective on the world.  I think you would do well to get a PhD in some field and apply for a teaching position at one of these institutions you are so ardently against so that you may, as you say others do, teach your own agenda but on a much wider scale than you are doing here.
> 
> Basically, to put it in simple terms you can understand, when something is over your head, you just say, "long winded liberal spiel."  LOL  Pathetic.
> Then maybe you'd be happy and not so all fired up and full of anger and resentment.  You&#8217;re going to develop heart disease if you don&#8217;t have it already.  My main point is that what you are doing in this tread is no different than what you are accusing others of doing.  You too have an agenda. You too have a perspective.
> 
> It is the tradition of colleges and universities to hire teachers who are not just teachers but writers, artists, journalists, thinkers, philosophers, etc., people who have diverse ideas to share with the students. It is the tradition of higher education to teach students to think and to accept or dismiss the varied ideas of their professors.
> 
> If you and others come out of college thinking you had to quell your own ideas in order to get good grades, you missed the point. If you believe any professor based his/her evaluation of you based on you accepting or not accepting that professor&#8217;s position, you should have made a formal complaint instead of pretending you believed things you didn&#8217;t believe.  I once taught rhetoric at the college level. I had many students who wrote argumentative papers expressing positions diametrically opposed to my own personal opinions. I never based a grade on the student agreeing with me. I often, regularly, gave A grades to papers against gun control and abortion, for example, if the paper was well written.   The quality of the argument and the writing were the only factors on which grades were based.  Any instructor who bases a grade on a student agreeing with him needs to be reported.
> 
> Universities hire professors or speakers with what seems to you very biased or outrageous ideas because they are supposed to be opening the minds of their students, offering them new ideas, thinking outside the box ideas, a kaleidoscope of ideas for the students to ponder and accept or reject as individual thinkers.
> 
> But you don&#8217;t seem to recognize you are doing what you accuse others of doing: trying to sway people to your way of seeing the world.  I wanted to point that out to you. Think about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Long winded liberal spiel =
Click to expand...


Your response indicates your intellectual level, which is obviously not one able to access the content and focus of the American education system.  You are obviously a very simple minded person and cannot think in complex terms at all.  Obviously not one to judge how education and learning works in America, or anywhere.  Unable to understand anything beyond what you can fathom from the simple minded, single minded universe in which you live.


----------



## Pauli007001

Esmeralda said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> American Jihad, it seems as though you are against indoctrination, against flooding someone's consciousness with ideas that have a goal, an agenda, that are biased in favor of one perspective. But, in reading all your posts on this thread, it seems to me that is exactly what you are doing.
> 
> All of your posts are flagrantly didactic epistles meant to sway the readers' opinion against those who teach in American schools and American schools themselves, and, as well, to convince the reader that schools and teachers are all liberal with a liberal agenda meant to indoctrinate and control the minds of the students.
> 
> However, nothing we will find in any educational facility is any stronger, if indeed it is as strong, or more strongly worded or intensely didactic, than your own posts, which very obviously have their own agenda and mean to teach a lesson, your lesson, and your perspective on the world.  I think you would do well to get a PhD in some field and apply for a teaching position at one of these institutions you are so ardently against so that you may, as you say others do, teach your own agenda but on a much wider scale than you are doing here.
> 
> Then maybe you'd be happy and not so all fired up and full of anger and resentment.  Youre going to develop heart disease if you dont have it already.  My main point is that what you are doing in this tread is no different than what you are accusing others of doing.  You too have an agenda. You too have a perspective.
> 
> It is the tradition of colleges and universities to hire teachers who are not just teachers but writers, artists, journalists, thinkers, philosophers, etc., people who have diverse ideas to share with the students. It is the tradition of higher education to teach students to think and to accept or dismiss the varied ideas of their professors.
> 
> If you and others come out of college thinking you had to quell your own ideas in order to get good grades, you missed the point. If you believe any professor based his/her evaluation of you based on you accepting or not accepting that professors position, you should have made a formal complaint instead of pretending you believed things you didnt believe.  I once taught rhetoric at the college level. I had many students who wrote argumentative papers expressing positions diametrically opposed to my own personal opinions. I never based a grade on the student agreeing with me. I often, regularly, gave A grades to papers against gun control and abortion, for example, if the paper was well written.   The quality of the argument and the writing were the only factors on which grades were based.  Any instructor who bases a grade on a student agreeing with him needs to be reported.
> 
> Universities hire professors or speakers with what seems to you very biased or outrageous ideas because they are supposed to be opening the minds of their students, offering them new ideas, thinking outside the box ideas, a kaleidoscope of ideas for the students to ponder and accept or reject as individual thinkers.
> 
> But you dont seem to recognize you are doing what you accuse others of doing: trying to sway people to your way of seeing the world.  I wanted to point that out to you. Think about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Long winded liberal spiel =
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your response indicates your intellectual level, which is obviously not one able to access the content and focus of the American education system.  You are obviously a very simple minded person and cannot think in complex terms at all.  Obviously not one to judge how education and learning works in America, or anywhere.  Unable to understand anything beyond what you can fathom from the simple minded, single minded universe in which you live.
Click to expand...


What's to understand.
Liberal UNIONISED public schoolteachers push a liberal agenda.
Reacting with violence, derision, abuse and intimidation of children who voice different opinions.
When the threats, derision, abuse and intimidation don't work, they declare the child disruptive and refuse to allow them into class until they are doped to the eyeballs with dangerous drugs.
Government stormtroops may be used to enforce administration of these potentially lethal drugs.

When a liberal professor incites students to commit mass murder against the children of members of the NRA he is celebrated!!

The entire liberal movement is a single issue movement.

Every obsession they have is geared toward legalizing the rape of male children by the Nambla funders of the liberal machine.


----------



## DGS49

Dear Esmeralda Person:

A "diversity" of ideas and viewpoints in our universities would be a good thing.  The point of many people posting on this thread is that one does not get a diversity of ideas in most American universities today.  To the contrary, one gets a steady flow of ideas and viewpoints that run counter to, for example, the U.S. Constitution, Judeo-Christian morals and ethics, and the traditional American ideals of personal independence and personal responsibility.  They uniformly promote Marxism, victim-ism, and moral relativism.  Surveys of voting patterns among college faculty reveal a uniformity of political positions that would be comical if they were not so disturbing.  95-100% of faculty vote for the Democrat candidate every time, and if you eliminate Econ and Bus Adm, it's more like 100%.

This uniform world-view springs largely out of the 60's Vietnam Era, in which the "counter-culture" promoted the idea that "everything your father taught you was bullshit," and "don't trust anyone over thirty" (ironic now, isn't it, since all of those pathetic bastards are in their 60's now and still spouting the same nonsense).  The leaders of the "anti-War" movement who notoriously sought the joys of "sex, drugs, and Rock & Roll" largely found havens in college and university faculties, since these vacuous ideas and viewpoints had no economic value to any companies or customers.

It was the obligation of Universities (and it still is) to bring in highly-qualified faculty who had large varieties of viewpoints and philosophies, but they largely just allowed their faculties to be taken over by these self-proclaimed non-conformists with nothing of real value to contribute.

Parenthetically I will add that during the Vietnam era, teachers were given a permanent deferral from the draft, and in many states their student loans were "forgiven" when they got their permanent teaching credential, thus the men who entered primary and secondary school teaching were far from a random sampling of college grads, but were all basically draft dodgers, with predictable world views.  Though a small percentage of the total number of public school teachers (because women dominate), they frequently ascended the ranks to administrative positions, where their views came to dominate education, along with the insidious entry of so-called, "collective bargaining."

Thus, those parents who hold "tradtional views" (Christianity, capitalism, individualism), face a constant effort to make sure their children are not being indoctrinated into viewpoints that run contrary to their own.

Is any of this news?  It's been going on for decades.


----------



## Esmeralda

If you were a well educated person, you would realize that it is a matter of perspective. Through the study of epistemology we learn to understand that one way of forming what we believe are truths or facts is perspective.  Each individual human being perceives  reality from a point of view that is influenced by culture, experience, language, emotion, etc.  You don't have the one and only correct vision of reality.  That the left or liberal version of reality is being forced upon you is your perspective, not reality.

From your perspective, you are bombarded with a liberal version of reality. From the point of view of a liberal, I am bombarded by a right wing version of reality which constantly needs to be resisted. If we didn't fight against the pressure of the right to turn this into a religious, Christian theocracy, it would surely be one within a decade.  That is the way it looks from over here. From your pov, it seems the opposite.  In reality, it is perspective.  So, the universities and colleges are doing just what they are meant to do, provide multiple points of view, all across the spectum. The public schools do that too, you just refuse to see it that way.


----------



## Samson

Esmeralda said:


> American Jihad, it seems as though you are against indoctrination, against flooding someone's consciousness with ideas that have a goal, an agenda, that are biased in favor of one perspective. But, in reading all your posts on this thread, it seems to me that is exactly what you are doing.



Um...no.

It seems as though you believe public resources are bottemless pits.

If expending these resources on fisting lectures and anti-semetic professors is "flooding someone's consciousness with ideas" then I suppose you wouldn't mind a publically funded lecture about the inferiority of the Black Race? How Queers are Deviant? A Man-Boy Love Promotion Campus Forum?

*Answer the question honestly*: You wouldn't mind at all having any of these subjects paid for through public funding?


----------



## Unkotare

Esmeralda said:


> If you were a well educated person, you would realize that it is a matter of perspective. Through the study of epistemology we learn to understand that one way of forming what we believe are truths or facts is perspective.  Each individual human being perceives  reality from a point of view that is influenced by culture, experience, language, emotion, etc.  You don't have the one and only correct vision of reality.  That the left or liberal version of reality is being forced upon you is your perspective, not reality..





Simply invoking the field of epistemology does not add any credibility to your specious attempt at relativism or your transparent attempt at denying the obvious.


----------



## DGS49

Esmeralda person (again):

I am a very "educated" person, thank you very much.  BA, JD, MBA, in that order.

The following observations about Academe and U.S. culture have nothing to do with "perspective" and are factual.  When I was in school, every public school class day started with the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance (including, "...under God..."), and the Lord's Prayer.  A generation ago, abortion, homosexual sodomy, and gambling were illegal, and all of these prohibitions had extremely broad public support, largely due to the prevalence of Judeo-Christian values.  Divorce was a painful and messy experience because "society" believed that it was intended and should be a lifelong commitment, and getting out of it SHOULD be difficult.  Co-habitation and bastardy were quite rare, even without broad access to abortion.

Society believed - largely through the influence of activists like the late MLK, Jr - that everyone should be treated equally, free to succeed or fail on their own merits; hence success was lauded and failure, not so much.  Victimhood as a veritable cultural religion had not been invented.  Professional umbrage-taking was not a well-paid "profession" as it is today.

Governments - even the United States Federal government - acted as though they had a moral obligation to live within their means, and only ran deficits during time of war or other extreme conditions.  Printing money and pretending that it breeds prosperity was an idiocy that was not germinated until very recently.

You buy into today's Liberal conceit that "history" includes only what you personally remember, and you seem totally ignorant of events and circumstances that are, historically speaking, quite recent.

The "religious, Christian theocracy" that you fear is nothing more than the status quo ante, one which Americans lived with quite happily until quite recently when we lost our fucking soul - due to people like you.  It is not un-American to advocate the values that served us quite well for the first 200 years of our existence as a nation.  Quite the contrary.


----------



## bodecea

Pauli007001 said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Long winded liberal spiel =
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your response indicates your intellectual level, which is obviously not one able to access the content and focus of the American education system.  You are obviously a very simple minded person and cannot think in complex terms at all.  Obviously not one to judge how education and learning works in America, or anywhere.  Unable to understand anything beyond what you can fathom from the simple minded, single minded universe in which you live.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *What's to understand.*
> Liberal UNIONISED public schoolteachers push a liberal agenda.
> Reacting with violence, derision, abuse and intimidation of children who voice different opinions.
> When the threats, derision, abuse and intimidation don't work, they declare the child disruptive and refuse to allow them into class until they are doped to the eyeballs with dangerous drugs.
> Government stormtroops may be used to enforce administration of these potentially lethal drugs.
> 
> When a liberal professor incites students to commit mass murder against the children of members of the NRA he is celebrated!!
> 
> The entire liberal movement is a single issue movement.
> 
> Every obsession they have is geared toward legalizing the rape of male children by the Nambla funders of the liberal machine.
Click to expand...


Oh, the Irony!


----------



## American_Jihad

bodecea said:


> Pauli007001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your response indicates your intellectual level, which is obviously not one able to access the content and focus of the American education system.  You are obviously a very simple minded person and cannot think in complex terms at all.  Obviously not one to judge how education and learning works in America, or anywhere.  Unable to understand anything beyond what you can fathom from the simple minded, single minded universe in which you live.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What's to understand.*
> Liberal UNIONISED public schoolteachers push a liberal agenda.
> Reacting with violence, derision, abuse and intimidation of children who voice different opinions.
> When the threats, derision, abuse and intimidation don't work, they declare the child disruptive and refuse to allow them into class until they are doped to the eyeballs with dangerous drugs.
> Government stormtroops may be used to enforce administration of these potentially lethal drugs.
> 
> When a liberal professor incites students to commit mass murder against the children of members of the NRA he is celebrated!!
> 
> The entire liberal movement is a single issue movement.
> 
> Every obsession they have is geared toward legalizing the rape of male children by the Nambla funders of the liberal machine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, the Irony!
Click to expand...


You say that a lot, you must be a groupie...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zq7QBt9UGQ]Oh, The Irony - CLOSER - YouTube[/ame]


----------



## psikeyhackr

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there that the kids in districts that do well on these tests actually UNDERSTAND much?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> too stupid!! they obviously understand a lot more than kids who don't do well on the tests!!
Click to expand...


So you don't know the difference between MEMORIZING and UNDERSTANDING.

It can simply mean the kids that don't do well have not memorized what is on the test.  I had at least memorized that the Sun ran on fusion when I was in grade school because of the sci-fi books I read.

But they never asked that on the tests.  LOL  In fact they never told me.  But I had to memorize ANTIDISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM.

Tests can be stupid.  

psik


----------



## Unkotare

psikeyhackr said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there that the kids in districts that do well on these tests actually UNDERSTAND much?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> too stupid!! they obviously understand a lot more than kids who don't do well on the tests!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you don't know the difference between MEMORIZING and UNDERSTANDING.
> 
> It can simply mean the kids that don't do well have not memorized what is on the test.  I had at least memorized that the Sun ran on fusion when I was in grade school because of the sci-fi books I read.
> 
> But they never asked that on the tests.  LOL  In fact they never told me.  But I had to memorize ANTIDISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM.
> 
> Tests can be stupid.
> 
> psik
Click to expand...




.........here we go again............


----------



## Esmeralda

What standardized testing does, primarily, is teach students to pass tests. It is not educating them, it is teaching them to perform.  It's like teaching dogs to do tricks.  They do the trick, but they don't understand the reason for or purpose of the trick.  They don't link, intellectually, the trick to other tricks, it's just do this trick then do that trick. They don't learn to analyze the trick, they just perform. They don't learn to question or think for themselves.  They don't learn to think in broader terms than the trick.


----------



## Unkotare

Esmeralda said:


> What standardized testing does, primarily, is teach students to pass tests. It is not educating them, it is teaching them to perform.





That is not necessarily so at all. 











The liberal fear of accountability and personal responsibility seems to pervade all their 'thinking.'


----------



## Samson

Esmeralda said:


> What standardized testing does, primarily, is teach students to pass tests. It is not educating them, it is teaching them to perform.  It's like teaching dogs to do tricks.  They do the trick, but they don't understand the reason for or purpose of the trick.  They don't link, intellectually, the trick to other tricks, it's just do this trick then do that trick. They don't learn to analyze the trick, they just perform. They don't learn to question or think for themselves.  They don't learn to think in broader terms than the trick.



Ironically your post is a great example of the inability to have a broader perspective. Standardized testing does not exclude " thinking in broader terms."


----------



## psikeyhackr

Samson said:


> Ironically your post is a great example of the inability to have a broader perspective. Standardized testing does not exclude " thinking in broader terms."



What something can be and what it becomes most of the time are two possible options.

I was working for IBM when they introduced the Datamaster 23.  I wanted to know how much faster it was than the machine it replace the 5100.  I had both devices on a table when I had some spare time on the night shift.  I wrote two benchmark programs, a Bubble Sort and a Prime Number program.

The old machine was almost twice as fast on both benchmarks.  I was really shocked.  But then it occurred to me that I never saw any mention of benchmarks on IBM documentation at the time.

The problem is not testing.  The problem is what the people running the institutions do with testing.  Who decides that and how many people just accept AUTHORITY because they know authority is right?

psik


----------



## Esmeralda

Samson said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> What standardized testing does, primarily, is teach students to pass tests. It is not educating them, it is teaching them to perform.  It's like teaching dogs to do tricks.  They do the trick, but they don't understand the reason for or purpose of the trick.  They don't link, intellectually, the trick to other tricks, it's just do this trick then do that trick. They don't learn to analyze the trick, they just perform. They don't learn to question or think for themselves.  They don't learn to think in broader terms than the trick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically your post is a great example of the inability to have a broader perspective. Standardized testing does not exclude " thinking in broader terms."
Click to expand...


Standardized testing means there is essentially one question and one answer. Those who prepare the tests believe they have all the questions and all the answers. Teachers spend the entire school year preparing students to pass standardized tests, and to do well so the school looks good and the public believes they are successfully educating the children.  The school needs to look successful in the eyes of the public so they can continue to try to educate the children, but, unfortunately, as so much emphasis is put on their preparing students for the standardized tests, they have very little chance of doing so.  Since standardized testing has become the god of public education in America, and is seeming to do so around the world, this endless, vicious cycle of spending so much time and engery preparing students to be tested and not having the time to actually educate them has become the norm.  

If you could explain how stanardized testing teaches students to think in broader terms, when the tests have prepared questions and preconceived, expected answers, please do so; otherwise, your statement is nothing but pretentious hot air.


----------



## Unkotare

Esmeralda said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> What standardized testing does, primarily, is teach students to pass tests. It is not educating them, it is teaching them to perform.  It's like teaching dogs to do tricks.  They do the trick, but they don't understand the reason for or purpose of the trick.  They don't link, intellectually, the trick to other tricks, it's just do this trick then do that trick. They don't learn to analyze the trick, they just perform. They don't learn to question or think for themselves.  They don't learn to think in broader terms than the trick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically your post is a great example of the inability to have a broader perspective. Standardized testing does not exclude " thinking in broader terms."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Standardized testing means there is essentially one question and one answer. Those who prepare the tests believe they have all the questions and all the answers.
Click to expand...



You've got a strange and oddly intense prejudice about this.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Black Professor Reprimanded for Targeting White Males as Racist*

December 9, 2013 by Sara Dogan






&#9632;Minneapolis Community and Technical College has issued a formal reprimand to African-American professor Shannon Gibney charging that her comments in class single[d] out white male students and thereby created a hostile learning environment for these pupils. Gibney claims that the students took her lecture on structural racism personally and filed a racial discrimination complaint after she challenged them to do so. In a letter appended to Gibneys file, the Colleges Vice President of Academic Affairs held that it is troubling that the manner in which you led a discussion on the very important topic of structural racism alienated two students who may have been most in need of learning about this subject. This latest charge is Gibneys second formal reprimand for racial discrimination against white students. In 2009, MCTC issued an earlier reprimand after Gibney was accused of targeting white male students on the campus newspaper staff for not working hard enough to eliminate racial bias from the paper. Gibney is currently suing MCTC in a class action lawsuit joined by six other faculty members.

...

Black Professor Reprimanded for Targeting White Males as Racist | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## initforme

If we are so in love with testing then

1). Teach ONLY to the test.  Give practice tests very very similar to the ones given.
2). Teachers should know exactly what concepts and how many of each concept are on the test.  Then let them teach ONLY those concepts and the whole curriculum is ONLY those concepts and THOSE types of problems.
3). Find some type of motivation for the kids to WANT to perform.   How many kids that don't care don't bother to even read the questions and simply mark down some random answer?  I believe those scores should be thrown out as they bring down the average.
4). When a student scores well, perhaps a monetary reward via the taxpayers?

Food for thought.  You cannot have it both ways.  You going to make tests so important then students should be taught only to the test.   Otherwise WHAT IS THE POINT?  Those who clamor for tests as a judgment of a school simply can't come up with a better idea.  Mental midgets you might say.


----------



## Unkotare

initforme said:


> If we are so in love with testing then
> 
> 1). Teach ONLY to the test.  Give practice tests very very similar to the ones given.
> 2). Teachers should know exactly what concepts and how many of each concept are on the test.  Then let them teach ONLY those concepts and the whole curriculum is ONLY those concepts and THOSE types of problems.
> 3). Find some type of motivation for the kids to WANT to perform.   How many kids that don't care don't bother to even read the questions and simply mark down some random answer?  I believe those scores should be thrown out as they bring down the average.
> 4). When a student scores well, perhaps a monetary reward via the taxpayers?
> 
> Food for thought.  You cannot have it both ways.  You going to make tests so important then students should be taught only to the test.   Otherwise WHAT IS THE POINT?  Those who clamor for tests as a judgment of a school simply can't come up with a better idea.  Mental midgets you might say.




Thanks for that ignorant, insipid post, professor.


----------



## initforme

What is your alternative to teaching solely to the test?   If you are going to judge students and teachers solely on test results do they not have the right to prepare over and over for the test?  Perhaps you have some insights then.....I for one see tests as a very poor way to judge a school.  It should be only a very small way to look at it.


----------



## Unkotare

You're, what, 15 or so?


----------



## American_Jihad

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwiaW-N7qWg]Atrocity - YouTube[/ame]

*Atrocity*​
January 31, 2014 by David Horowitz 


There is a human tragedy smoldering in Americas inner cities. Twelve million poor children, mainly black and Hispanic, are trapped in failing government schools that are teaching them nothing. As a result, they will never get a chance at a middle-class life. Virtually every school board and every administration in inner city districts is controlled by Democrats, and has been for over fifty years. Everything that is wrong with inner city schools that policy can fix, Democrats are responsible for.

How bad is the inner-city school crisis? Almost half of black students in public schools, and almost half of Hispanic students drop out before graduation and fail to earn a diploma.[1] The dropout rates are especially high in urban areas with large minority populations, including such academic disaster zones as Washington, DC (57%), Trenton (59%), Camden (61.4%), Baltimore (65.4%), Cleveland (65.9%), and Detroit (75.1%).[2] As a result of high dropout rates, black and Hispanic students in these urban centers are denied the American dream and condemned to spend their lives in grinding poverty instead.

...

This is a social atrocity that has to be stopped.  Atrocity is the first web ad created by an organization I have created called Go For the Heart.  I chose Atrocity to be our first project because whats happening to poor mainly black and Hispanic children in our public schools is an atrocity, and it is one around which there is a great media silence. That is because the atrocity is being committed by the Democratic Party and its union supporters. Atrocity is an attempt to break that silence.

...

Atrocity | FrontPage Magazine


----------



## American_Jihad

*Arne Duncan: Youre a Liar, Common Core Will Destroy American Education*

Feb. 26, 2014 
Pat Gray

...






For example, Gates explained [emphasis added]:

_identifying common standards is not enough. Well know weve succeeded when the curriculum and the tests are aligned to these standards. To create just these kinds of testsnext-generation assessments aligned to the common core. When the tests are aligned to the common standards, the curriculum will line up as welland that will unleash powerful market forces in the service of better teaching._

Wait, what? That will unleash powerful market forces? You mean, powerful market forces like, maybe, Microsoft?

...

Gates added, For the first time, there will be a large uniform base of customers eager to buy products that can help every kid learn and every teacher get better.

Oh, and every CEO of Microsoft get even richer. I dont have any problem with Gates getting richer, unless hes doing it by using our children at school. No thank you.

We, along with Michelle Malkin and others, have explained the sinister data mining that the Department of Education outlined in a February 2013 report. The report contemplated plans to use techniques such as functional magnetic resonance imaging and using cameras to judge facial expressions, an electronic seat that judges posture, a pressure-sensitive computer mouse and a biometric wrap on kids wrists.

What were they planning to gain from all of that? In addition to the Microsoft product development possibilities Gates is excited about, the DOE was interested in recognizing bias in sources, flexibility, cultural awareness and competence, appreciation for diversity, empathy, perspective taking, trust (and) service orientation.

They will know your familys politics. What could go wrong with the government having access to that information? They will know if you appreciate diversity. They will recognize your bias, and your childrens bias. Are you aware culturally?  Are you culturally competent? I dont know, but were going to find out.

...

Arne Duncan: You?re a Liar, Common Core Will Destroy American Education | TheBlaze.com


----------



## DGS49

Bill Gates is spending a billion dollars of his own money to try to improve public education, and this jackass things he's doing it to enrich himself.

Un.

Fucking.

Believable.

No doubt the product of an American public school system.


----------



## American_Jihad

DGS49 said:


> Bill Gates is spending a billion dollars of his own money to try to improve public education, and this jackass things he's doing it to enrich himself.
> 
> Un.
> 
> Fucking.
> 
> Believable.
> 
> No doubt the product of an American public school system.



Why that's *D*awg *G*one *S*tupid x 49, your parents should have homeschooled ya...


----------



## JamesInFlorida

DGS49 said:


> Bill Gates is spending a billion dollars of his own money to try to improve public education, and this jackass things he's doing it to enrich himself.
> 
> Un.
> 
> Fucking.
> 
> Believable.
> 
> No doubt the product of an American public school system.



I'm going to go on a limb and say that Bill Gates is more successful than you would ever be in 100 lifetimes combined.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Principal Refused to Disclose Election Results after 'Too Many White Kids' Win*
* "The voters’ voices are not being heard,” said a seventh grader. *
10.21.2015
News
Sarah Fisher







School principal Lena Van Haren withheld the results of a student council election because she felt the results were not representative of the student body.Van Haren is the principal at Everett Middle School in San Francisco.

“It’s not okay for a school that is really, really diverse to have the student representatives majority white,” she told the San Francisco Chronicle. “The easy thing would have been to announce the results and move on. I intentionally did not choose the easy way because this is so important.”

No accusations of cheating were made about the election so the legitimacy of the results were not in question. The only issue was that the results lacked diversity. The final vote results were held for a week and parents were contacted about how to have a more representative government.

“This is complex, but as a parent and a principal, I truly believe it behooves us to be thoughtful about our next steps here so we have a diverse student council that is truly representative of all voices at Everett,” she wrote to parents.

Some of the students seemed aware of the problems with the principal's decision. "I feel like it is disrespectful to all the people who were running,” student Sebastian Kaplan told television station KRON. “The whole school voted for those people, so it is not like people rigged the game, but in a way – now it is kind of being rigged.”

...

Principal Refused to Disclose Election Results after 'Too Many White Kids' Win


----------



## Jackson

That


American_Jihad said:


> *Principal Refused to Disclose Election Results after 'Too Many White Kids' Win*
> * "The voters’ voices are not being heard,” said a seventh grader. *
> 10.21.2015
> News
> Sarah Fisher
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> School principal Lena Van Haren withheld the results of a student council election because she felt the results were not representative of the student body.Van Haren is the principal at Everett Middle School in San Francisco.
> 
> “It’s not okay for a school that is really, really diverse to have the student representatives majority white,” she told the San Francisco Chronicle. “The easy thing would have been to announce the results and move on. I intentionally did not choose the easy way because this is so important.”
> 
> No accusations of cheating were made about the election so the legitimacy of the results were not in question. The only issue was that the results lacked diversity. The final vote results were held for a week and parents were contacted about how to have a more representative government.
> 
> “This is complex, but as a parent and a principal, I truly believe it behooves us to be thoughtful about our next steps here so we have a diverse student council that is truly representative of all voices at Everett,” she wrote to parents.
> 
> Some of the students seemed aware of the problems with the principal's decision. "I feel like it is disrespectful to all the people who were running,” student Sebastian Kaplan told television station KRON. “The whole school voted for those people, so it is not like people rigged the game, but in a way – now it is kind of being rigged.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Principal Refused to Disclose Election Results after 'Too Many White Kids' Win


That is so wrong.  I think we have a problem school.  The vote took place and the kids voted for who they wanted to represent them.  Their voices were heard.  Just because the vote didn't turn out as the principal had hoped, she doesn't have the right to rig the system of voting now.


----------



## Jackson

Esmeralda said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> What standardized testing does, primarily, is teach students to pass tests. It is not educating them, it is teaching them to perform.  It's like teaching dogs to do tricks.  They do the trick, but they don't understand the reason for or purpose of the trick.  They don't link, intellectually, the trick to other tricks, it's just do this trick then do that trick. They don't learn to analyze the trick, they just perform. They don't learn to question or think for themselves.  They don't learn to think in broader terms than the trick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically your post is a great example of the inability to have a broader perspective. Standardized testing does not exclude " thinking in broader terms."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Standardized testing means there is essentially one question and one answer. Those who prepare the tests believe they have all the questions and all the answers. Teachers spend the entire school year preparing students to pass standardized tests, and to do well so the school looks good and the public believes they are successfully educating the children.  The school needs to look successful in the eyes of the public so they can continue to try to educate the children, but, unfortunately, as so much emphasis is put on their preparing students for the standardized tests, they have very little chance of doing so.  Since standardized testing has become the god of public education in America, and is seeming to do so around the world, this endless, vicious cycle of spending so much time and engery preparing students to be tested and not having the time to actually educate them has become the norm.
> 
> If you could explain how stanardized testing teaches students to think in broader terms, when the tests have prepared questions and preconceived, expected answers, please do so; otherwise, your statement is nothing but pretentious hot air.
Click to expand...

Yes, the standardized test is designed to have one acceptable answer...the right one.  When you have given correct facts, then that is what is tested.  2 + 2 = 4 will always be correct.  That's because that the given facts are being tested.  One needs a foundation of knowledge before they can expand to extensive critical thinking skills where more than one answer could be right.  Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking,  just basic facts.


----------



## Unkotare

Jackson said:


> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> What standardized testing does, primarily, is teach students to pass tests. It is not educating them, it is teaching them to perform.  It's like teaching dogs to do tricks.  They do the trick, but they don't understand the reason for or purpose of the trick.  They don't link, intellectually, the trick to other tricks, it's just do this trick then do that trick. They don't learn to analyze the trick, they just perform. They don't learn to question or think for themselves.  They don't learn to think in broader terms than the trick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically your post is a great example of the inability to have a broader perspective. Standardized testing does not exclude " thinking in broader terms."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Standardized testing means there is essentially one question and one answer. Those who prepare the tests believe they have all the questions and all the answers. Teachers spend the entire school year preparing students to pass standardized tests, and to do well so the school looks good and the public believes they are successfully educating the children.  The school needs to look successful in the eyes of the public so they can continue to try to educate the children, but, unfortunately, as so much emphasis is put on their preparing students for the standardized tests, they have very little chance of doing so.  Since standardized testing has become the god of public education in America, and is seeming to do so around the world, this endless, vicious cycle of spending so much time and engery preparing students to be tested and not having the time to actually educate them has become the norm.
> 
> If you could explain how stanardized testing teaches students to think in broader terms, when the tests have prepared questions and preconceived, expected answers, please do so; otherwise, your statement is nothing but pretentious hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, the standardized test is designed to have one acceptable answer...the right one.  When you have given correct facts, then that is what is tested.  2 + 2 = 4 will always be correct.  That's because that the given facts are being tested.  One needs a foundation of knowledge before they can expand to extensive critical thinking skills where more than one answer could be right.  Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking,  just basic facts.
Click to expand...




That's not exactly true.


----------



## koshergrl

JamesInFlorida said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Gates is spending a billion dollars of his own money to try to improve public education, and this jackass things he's doing it to enrich himself.
> 
> Un.
> 
> Fucking.
> 
> Believable.
> 
> No doubt the product of an American public school system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to go on a limb and say that Bill Gates is more successful than you would ever be in 100 lifetimes combined.
Click to expand...

 Didn't bill drop out of school?


----------



## koshergrl

Yes, indeed he did, as did some other notables, including Steve Jobs.

"America's richest man is also arguably the world's most famous billionaire dropout."

Billionaire Dropouts: Five School Dropouts Who Made a Fortune


----------



## Jackson

Unkotare said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> What standardized testing does, primarily, is teach students to pass tests. It is not educating them, it is teaching them to perform.  It's like teaching dogs to do tricks.  They do the trick, but they don't understand the reason for or purpose of the trick.  They don't link, intellectually, the trick to other tricks, it's just do this trick then do that trick. They don't learn to analyze the trick, they just perform. They don't learn to question or think for themselves.  They don't learn to think in broader terms than the trick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically your post is a great example of the inability to have a broader perspective. Standardized testing does not exclude " thinking in broader terms."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Standardized testing means there is essentially one question and one answer. Those who prepare the tests believe they have all the questions and all the answers. Teachers spend the entire school year preparing students to pass standardized tests, and to do well so the school looks good and the public believes they are successfully educating the children.  The school needs to look successful in the eyes of the public so they can continue to try to educate the children, but, unfortunately, as so much emphasis is put on their preparing students for the standardized tests, they have very little chance of doing so.  Since standardized testing has become the god of public education in America, and is seeming to do so around the world, this endless, vicious cycle of spending so much time and engery preparing students to be tested and not having the time to actually educate them has become the norm.
> 
> If you could explain how stanardized testing teaches students to think in broader terms, when the tests have prepared questions and preconceived, expected answers, please do so; otherwise, your statement is nothing but pretentious hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, the standardized test is designed to have one acceptable answer...the right one.  When you have given correct facts, then that is what is tested.  2 + 2 = 4 will always be correct.  That's because that the given facts are being tested.  One needs a foundation of knowledge before they can expand to extensive critical thinking skills where more than one answer could be right.  Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking,  just basic facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not exactly true.
Click to expand...

What do you disagree with?


----------



## Unkotare

Jackson said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> What standardized testing does, primarily, is teach students to pass tests. It is not educating them, it is teaching them to perform.  It's like teaching dogs to do tricks.  They do the trick, but they don't understand the reason for or purpose of the trick.  They don't link, intellectually, the trick to other tricks, it's just do this trick then do that trick. They don't learn to analyze the trick, they just perform. They don't learn to question or think for themselves.  They don't learn to think in broader terms than the trick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically your post is a great example of the inability to have a broader perspective. Standardized testing does not exclude " thinking in broader terms."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Standardized testing means there is essentially one question and one answer. Those who prepare the tests believe they have all the questions and all the answers. Teachers spend the entire school year preparing students to pass standardized tests, and to do well so the school looks good and the public believes they are successfully educating the children.  The school needs to look successful in the eyes of the public so they can continue to try to educate the children, but, unfortunately, as so much emphasis is put on their preparing students for the standardized tests, they have very little chance of doing so.  Since standardized testing has become the god of public education in America, and is seeming to do so around the world, this endless, vicious cycle of spending so much time and engery preparing students to be tested and not having the time to actually educate them has become the norm.
> 
> If you could explain how stanardized testing teaches students to think in broader terms, when the tests have prepared questions and preconceived, expected answers, please do so; otherwise, your statement is nothing but pretentious hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, the standardized test is designed to have one acceptable answer...the right one.  When you have given correct facts, then that is what is tested.  2 + 2 = 4 will always be correct.  That's because that the given facts are being tested.  One needs a foundation of knowledge before they can expand to extensive critical thinking skills where more than one answer could be right.  Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking,  just basic facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not exactly true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you disagree with?
Click to expand...



Mostly this: "Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking, just basic facts."


----------



## Jackson

Unkotare said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically your post is a great example of the inability to have a broader perspective. Standardized testing does not exclude " thinking in broader terms."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Standardized testing means there is essentially one question and one answer. Those who prepare the tests believe they have all the questions and all the answers. Teachers spend the entire school year preparing students to pass standardized tests, and to do well so the school looks good and the public believes they are successfully educating the children.  The school needs to look successful in the eyes of the public so they can continue to try to educate the children, but, unfortunately, as so much emphasis is put on their preparing students for the standardized tests, they have very little chance of doing so.  Since standardized testing has become the god of public education in America, and is seeming to do so around the world, this endless, vicious cycle of spending so much time and engery preparing students to be tested and not having the time to actually educate them has become the norm.
> 
> If you could explain how stanardized testing teaches students to think in broader terms, when the tests have prepared questions and preconceived, expected answers, please do so; otherwise, your statement is nothing but pretentious hot air.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, the standardized test is designed to have one acceptable answer...the right one.  When you have given correct facts, then that is what is tested.  2 + 2 = 4 will always be correct.  That's because that the given facts are being tested.  One needs a foundation of knowledge before they can expand to extensive critical thinking skills where more than one answer could be right.  Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking,  just basic facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not exactly true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you disagree with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly this: "Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking, just basic facts."
Click to expand...

It was never intended to be a test of higher learning, just basic foundational information.  This criterion referenced testing is not like IQ testing that identifies the gifted test takers.


----------



## Unkotare

Jackson said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> Standardized testing means there is essentially one question and one answer. Those who prepare the tests believe they have all the questions and all the answers. Teachers spend the entire school year preparing students to pass standardized tests, and to do well so the school looks good and the public believes they are successfully educating the children.  The school needs to look successful in the eyes of the public so they can continue to try to educate the children, but, unfortunately, as so much emphasis is put on their preparing students for the standardized tests, they have very little chance of doing so.  Since standardized testing has become the god of public education in America, and is seeming to do so around the world, this endless, vicious cycle of spending so much time and engery preparing students to be tested and not having the time to actually educate them has become the norm.
> 
> If you could explain how stanardized testing teaches students to think in broader terms, when the tests have prepared questions and preconceived, expected answers, please do so; otherwise, your statement is nothing but pretentious hot air.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the standardized test is designed to have one acceptable answer...the right one.  When you have given correct facts, then that is what is tested.  2 + 2 = 4 will always be correct.  That's because that the given facts are being tested.  One needs a foundation of knowledge before they can expand to extensive critical thinking skills where more than one answer could be right.  Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking,  just basic facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not exactly true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you disagree with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly this: "Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking, just basic facts."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never intended to be a test of higher learning, just basic foundational information. ....
Click to expand...



Nope. The SAT, for example, was not designed to test subject-area knowledge but rather analytical and other problem-solving academic skills.  The ACT, on the other hand, does test content knowledge to a greater degree.


----------



## Jackson

Unkotare said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the standardized test is designed to have one acceptable answer...the right one.  When you have given correct facts, then that is what is tested.  2 + 2 = 4 will always be correct.  That's because that the given facts are being tested.  One needs a foundation of knowledge before they can expand to extensive critical thinking skills where more than one answer could be right.  Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking,  just basic facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not exactly true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What do you disagree with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly this: "Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking, just basic facts."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never intended to be a test of higher learning, just basic foundational information. ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. The SAT, for example, was not designed to test subject-area knowledge but rather analytical and other problem-solving academic skills.  The ACT, on the other hand, does test content knowledge to a greater degree.
Click to expand...

I believe we agree.


----------



## Unkotare

Jackson said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's not exactly true.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you disagree with?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly this: "Standardized tests have never stated that they test at a higher level of thinking, just basic facts."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was never intended to be a test of higher learning, just basic foundational information. ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. The SAT, for example, was not designed to test subject-area knowledge but rather analytical and other problem-solving academic skills.  The ACT, on the other hand, does test content knowledge to a greater degree.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I believe we agree.
Click to expand...



Well, alright then.


----------



## psikeyhackr

DGS49 said:


> Bill Gates is spending a billion dollars of his own money to try to improve public education, and this jackass things he's doing it to enrich himself.
> 
> Un.
> 
> Fucking.
> 
> Believable.
> 
> No doubt the product of an American public school system.



What is curious is that so many people talk about improving education but then can't suggest something as simple as a National Recommended Reading List.

That would be a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD for all of the kids that want to learn things.  But what is there to learn from reading Catcher in the Rye?

How about:

Thinking as a Science (1916) by Henry Hazlitt
http://www.scribd.com/doc/104611461/Henry-Hazlitt-Thinking-as-a-Science
LibriVox

The Tyranny of Words (1938) by Stuart Chase
Anxiety Culture: Tyranny of Words - excerpt
The tyranny of words : Chase, Stuart, 1888-1985 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

Worlds Within Worlds: The Story of Nuclear Energy, (1972)
Volumes (1,2 & 3 of 3) by Isaac Asimov
Worlds Within Worlds: The Story of Nuclear Energy, Volume 1 (of 3) by Isaac Asimov
Worlds Within Worlds: The Story of Nuclear Energy, Volume 2 (of 3) by Isaac Asimov
Worlds Within Worlds: The Story of Nuclear Energy, Volume 3 (of 3) by Isaac Asimov

Omnilingual (Feb 1957) by H. Beam Piper
Scientific Language: H. Beam Piper’s “Omnilingual”
Omnilingual
LibriVox

Badge of Infamy (Jun 1957) by Lester del Rey
LibriVox
Badge of Infamy

psik


----------



## Unkotare

The broken record is still skipping...


----------



## American_Jihad

*Students Forced to Deny God or Fail Assignment*
* "A kid was literally graded against her faith in God in a classroom." *
10.28.2015
News
Sarah Fisher

...

Texas student told a school board yesterday that the students in her class were forced to deny the existence of God or risk failing their reading class assignment.

Jordan Wooley told KHOU-TV that her West Memorial Junior High School reading teacher handed students an assignment that asked them to classify several phrases into three categories: a factual claim, a commonplace assertion, or an opinion.

The 7th grader told the school board: “Today I was given an assignment in school that questioned my faith and told me that God was not real. Our teacher had started off saying that the assignment had been giving problems all day. We were asked to take a poll to say whether God is fact, opinion or a myth and she told anyone who said fact or opinion was wrong and God was only a myth,” Wooley told board members.

“I know it wasn’t just me who was affected by it. My friend, she went home and started crying. She was supposed to come with me but she didn’t know if she could” because she was so upset, Wooley said

“Another student asked the teacher if we could put what we believe in the paper, and she said we could … but you would fail the paper if you do,” Wooley told the board. “I had known before that our schools aren’t really supposed to teach us much about religion or question religion. When I asked my teacher about it she said it doesn’t have anything to do with religion because the problem is just saying there is no God.”

When Wooley said that there was a God, her teacher told her that God wasn't real and insisted her answer was wrong. “It was really confusing to me at first because I didn’t really know what to do, so the first thing I did was tell my mom,” Wooley told KHOU.

Wooley's mother Chantal was also surprised about the assignment. “That a kid was literally graded against her faith in God in a classroom so who would want to be known,” Chantel told KHOU.

The school issued a statement, defending the assignment saying it was intended to spark critical thinking.

...

Students Forced to Deny God or Fail Assignment


----------



## Jackson

American_Jihad said:


> *Students Forced to Deny God or Fail Assignment*
> * "A kid was literally graded against her faith in God in a classroom." *
> 10.28.2015
> News
> Sarah Fisher
> 
> ...
> 
> Texas student told a school board yesterday that the students in her class were forced to deny the existence of God or risk failing their reading class assignment.
> 
> Jordan Wooley told KHOU-TV that her West Memorial Junior High School reading teacher handed students an assignment that asked them to classify several phrases into three categories: a factual claim, a commonplace assertion, or an opinion.
> 
> The 7th grader told the school board: “Today I was given an assignment in school that questioned my faith and told me that God was not real. Our teacher had started off saying that the assignment had been giving problems all day. We were asked to take a poll to say whether God is fact, opinion or a myth and she told anyone who said fact or opinion was wrong and God was only a myth,” Wooley told board members.
> 
> “I know it wasn’t just me who was affected by it. My friend, she went home and started crying. She was supposed to come with me but she didn’t know if she could” because she was so upset, Wooley said
> 
> “Another student asked the teacher if we could put what we believe in the paper, and she said we could … but you would fail the paper if you do,” Wooley told the board. “I had known before that our schools aren’t really supposed to teach us much about religion or question religion. When I asked my teacher about it she said it doesn’t have anything to do with religion because the problem is just saying there is no God.”
> 
> When Wooley said that there was a God, her teacher told her that God wasn't real and insisted her answer was wrong. “It was really confusing to me at first because I didn’t really know what to do, so the first thing I did was tell my mom,” Wooley told KHOU.
> 
> Wooley's mother Chantal was also surprised about the assignment. “That a kid was literally graded against her faith in God in a classroom so who would want to be known,” Chantel told KHOU.
> 
> The school issued a statement, defending the assignment saying it was intended to spark critical thinking.
> 
> ...
> 
> Students Forced to Deny God or Fail Assignment



I'm horrified to think that kind of malarkey exists.  The families should not let this go.  Go to the superintendent with this assignment.  I'm glad she went to the media.


----------



## American_Jihad

*Teacher Writes Song for 7th Graders to Sing About Islam*
* In California?! No way!! *
11.19.2015
News
Trey Sanchez






A middle school teacher in Anaheim, California, rewrote the lyrics to a popular hit song as a way to teach her 7th graders about Islam. But one mother is upset because she feels it promotes the religion.

According to _EAGnews.org_, Nichole Negron's son mistakenly brought home a learning journal that is normally kept at school. But being that she is an involved mother, she looked through it and found the teacher's lyrics pasted to a page. Her son said they sang it several times in the classroom.

Here are the lyrics (sung to the tune of Rachel Platten's "Fight Song"):

Like a sandstorm 
On the desert
Sending camels
Into motion

Like how a single faith
Can make a heart open
They might only have one god
but they can make an explosion

Chorus:

And all those things they have to say
Islam … Allah’s on the way
They will preach them loud tonight
Can you hear their voices this time?

This is their fight song,
Spread Islam now song,
Prove that they’re right song,

Their power’s turned on,
Starting right now they’ll be strong
They’ll play their fight song,

And they don’t really care,
If no Jews or C’s believe,
Cause they still have
A lot of others to reach

Umayyads, and Abbasids
Seljuk turks and ottomans,
Spread the faith,
Say Spread the faith

The Moguls rule in India,
Spreading Islam from their bones,
Still believe,
Yeah they still believe

Chorus

Like a sandstorm
On the desert
Sending camels
Into motion

Negron brought her concerns before the teacher and the assistant principal, but wasn't taken seriously. The teacher said she was only trying to prepare the students for a test, but admitted to thinking it might be problematic. The assistant principal blamed the mother's faith for finding the song offensive.

"I am a Christian," the mother said, "but that shouldn't matter."

_EAGnews_ reports:

...

The report states that an apology was issued by the school district and they promised to investigate.

CAIR, the Council for American Islamic Relations, was asked to comment and even they questioned the teacher's motives. But not without a reminder that a concerned mom is treading dangerously close to xenophobia:

Especially with the recent attacks ISIS has been doing, knowing that this potentially Islamaphobic backlash might come about, what was the teacher’s intention?

A picture of the son's journal was provided:






Teacher Writes Song for 7th Graders to Sing About Islam


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## Unkotare

Holy crap.....


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## American_Jihad

January 6, 2016
*Islam in our schools*
By Carol Brown
Creeping sharia infiltrates every nook and cranny of America. Including our classrooms. Among other things, the Muslim Brotherhood (as well as the Saudis) wields enormous influence over curriculum that threatens not only public schools, but private and parochial schools as well.

After reporting on Islamic supremacy in our schools a year ago, I thought it worthwhile to see how things have progressed since then, for better or for worse. (Guess which it is.) When last we left off, here’s where things stood. In most cases, information only came to light because parents stumbled upon homework assignments or their child told them something of concern.

Students learned to recite allegiance to Allah along with Muslim prayers and chants. Students were also taught the Five Pillars of Islam, that Muslims pray to the same God as Christians and Jews, that Mohammed was a man with strong moral values, that terrorists are “freedom fighters,” that Muslims treat those they conquer better than America does, along with the taqiyya version of CAIR’s mission. Sharia law was promoted, Qurans were introduced into classrooms, students studied Arabic, female students wore burqas as part of a lesson on Islam, and special courses on Islam prohibited students from wearing a cross or saying the name “Jesus.”

Homework assignments required students to promote the “Golden Age of Islam” while students also had to write about what it would be like to travel to Mecca. All the while, Muslim students were given special privileges that Christian and Jewish students were not afforded, including time off during the day to pray.

Textbooks whitewashed Islam while diminishing Christians and Jews, videos framed non-Muslims as bigots and validated enforcement of blasphemy laws, a Muslim author gave a lecture that stretched over four days about her Islamic-themed book, and field trips to mosques (including the one the Tsarnaev brothers attended) involved non-Muslim students praying to Allah, with non-Muslim boys joined adult Muslims in prayer while girls were told Islam is pro-woman.

Teachers who spoke out were punished. An elementary school teacher was forced to resign after making critical comments about Islam on a talk radio program, CAIR attempted to smear another teacher by accusing her of being a “racist” after she drew an analogy between the Taliban and Hamas during a lesson on bullying, and Christian teachers were harassed by Muslims in the school hierarchy.

(See here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.)

So where do things stand today? Sadly, we have more of the same. Much more of it, as Islamic supremacy continues to gain ground in our schools. (See here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.)

A workbook for a three-week course on Islam told students that for the duration of the course they will “become Muslim” by selecting Muslim names and wearing them on ID tags around their necks, dressing up as Muslims and acting the part in order to receive a good grade, being told jihad is a struggle against oppression, playing a dice game called Jihad that pits one group of students against another, reading the opening chapter of the Quran and analyzing various other verses, and memorizing the Shahada (the prayer for conversion to Islam).

Students across various school districts were told that Islam had nothing to do with the 9/11 terror attacks, were taught an Islamic fight song that implied that Allah is the only God, completed a project that involved making pro-ISIS propaganda posters, and a Palestinian activist gave a presentation to third graders that urged them to become “freedom fighters for Palestine.”

Homework assignments included analyzing statements by bin Laden, material from an ISIS blog featuring a female recruiter, and statements from Obama’s Cairo speech that demonized the West and framed Muslims as victims. Students also had to write the Shahada (including the oath “There is no God by Allah”) and sing “Allahu Akbar” in an Arabic song. And a Muslim cleric who was a public school teacher peddled sharia and routinely left school early to conduct prayer services at his mosque. (He’s since been fired.)

Meanwhile Muslims continued to press for special accommodations, such as school closures for Muslim holidays. Mind you, federal law allows students of minority religions to take off from school on their religious holidays without any penalty. But this is not good enough for many Muslims who offer all manner of rationales for why they need more. Some cite relatively high (emphasis on relatively) percentages of Muslims who live in certain districts. But even when their numbers are scant the same pressure is applied, as in Baltimore where no tests are scheduled on Muslim holidays, despite the fact that Muslim students comprise a mere two-to-three percent of the student body.

In one case, a Muslim community leader argued that Muslim students don’t want to miss class even if the absence is excused because it would place an undue burden on them to catch up for the day they missed. So he wants school policy to prohibit tests on Muslim holidays and the day after so Muslim students won't have any pressure to study during their observance. He admits the ultimate goal is for the school district to close schools completely on those days because: “We want our sons and daughters to feel as American as anyone else and to be on equal footing as everyone else.” (Nice try. How about Muslim students cope just like Jewish students and Hindu students and students from other religious minorities who have been faring just fine? Deal with it!)

Another example of we-are-a-tiny-minority-but-you-owe-us rationale can be found in Anne Arundel County, Maryland, where Muslims comprise less than two percent of the population. No matter. Sporting events are banned the night prior to Muslim holidays and no tests are administered on the holidays themselves.

Then there’s this rationale offered up in Burlington, Vermont, where it is being recommended that schools close for Muslim holidays because most Muslim students are recently arrived refugees who don’t speak much English and missing school will have a negative effect on their learning. But as often happens in these cases a domino effect kicks in, and now the small Hindu community in Burlington wants school closures on their holidays. However no accommodations will be made for Hindus.

Here’s another scenario. In Irvington, N.J., where the superintendent had no idea how many Muslim students were in the school system, schools are closed on Muslim holidays based on “inclusion” rather than necessity. Riiiiiiiiight. And what “necessity” could one ever argue in any of these cases?

But who needs “necessity” when you can stand on the soap box of “rights,” as Kaity Assaf, a Muslim teenager in New Jersey did when she claimed it comes to down having the “right” to have the two most important Muslim holidays acknowledged publicly by closing all schools in her district.

Then there are those who claim victimhood and make loud demands, as happened a couple of months ago in Jersey City, NJ, when the school board made a “difficult and gut-wrenching” decision and refused to close schools for Muslim holidays after Muslims in the community requested this accommodation on six days notice. One Muslim in attendance screamed, “My child should be able to celebrate the holiday!” (as if anyone was stopping that from happening) while another stated “We feel alienated!” (what’s new?). Still another stepped up to the microphone and smirked: “We’re no longer the minority. That’s clear from tonight. We’re going to be the majority soon.”

Arrogance, demands, victimhood, threats, and above all, being above all.

Hat tips: Fox News, Counterjihad Report, Breitbart, Jihad Watch, The Clarion Project, Atlas Shrugs, The Right Scoop, Legal Insurrection, Front Page Magazine

Creeping sharia infiltrates every nook and cranny of America. Including our classrooms. Among other things, the Muslim Brotherhood (as well as the Saudis) wields enormous influence over curriculum that threatens not only public schools, but private and parochial schools as well.

After reporting on Islamic supremacy in our schools a year ago, I thought it worthwhile to see how things have progressed since then, for better or for worse. (Guess which it is.) When last we left off, here’s where things stood. In most cases, information only came to light because parents stumbled upon homework assignments or their child told them something of concern.

Students learned to recite allegiance to Allah along with Muslim prayers and chants. Students were also taught the Five Pillars of Islam, that Muslims pray to the same God as Christians and Jews, that Mohammed was a man with strong moral values, that terrorists are “freedom fighters,” that Muslims treat those they conquer better than America does, along with the taqiyya version of CAIR’s mission. Sharia law was promoted, Qurans were introduced into classrooms, students studied Arabic, female students wore burqas as part of a lesson on Islam, and special courses on Islam prohibited students from wearing a cross or saying the name “Jesus.”

Homework assignments required students to promote the “Golden Age of Islam” while students also had to write about what it would be like to travel to Mecca. All the while, Muslim students were given special privileges that Christian and Jewish students were not afforded, including time off during the day to pray.

Textbooks whitewashed Islam while diminishing Christians and Jews, videos framed non-Muslims as bigots and validated enforcement of blasphemy laws, a Muslim author gave a lecture that stretched over four days about her Islamic-themed book, and field trips to mosques (including the one the Tsarnaev brothers attended) involved non-Muslim students praying to Allah, with non-Muslim boys joined adult Muslims in prayer while girls were told Islam is pro-woman.

Teachers who spoke out were punished. An elementary school teacher was forced to resign after making critical comments about Islam on a talk radio program, CAIR attempted to smear another teacher by accusing her of being a “racist” after she drew an analogy between the Taliban and Hamas during a lesson on bullying, and Christian teachers were harassed by Muslims in the school hierarchy.

(See here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.)

So where do things stand today? Sadly, we have more of the same. Much more of it, as Islamic supremacy continues to gain ground in our schools. (See here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.)

A workbook for a three-week course on Islam told students that for the duration of the course they will “become Muslim” by selecting Muslim names and wearing them on ID tags around their necks, dressing up as Muslims and acting the part in order to receive a good grade, being told jihad is a struggle against oppression, playing a dice game called Jihad that pits one group of students against another, reading the opening chapter of the Quran and analyzing various other verses, and memorizing the Shahada (the prayer for conversion to Islam).

Students across various school districts were told that Islam had nothing to do with the 9/11 terror attacks, were taught an Islamic fight song that implied that Allah is the only God, completed a project that involved making pro-ISIS propaganda posters, and a Palestinian activist gave a presentation to third graders that urged them to become “freedom fighters for Palestine.”

Homework assignments included analyzing statements by bin Laden, material from an ISIS blog featuring a female recruiter, and statements from Obama’s Cairo speech that demonized the West and framed Muslims as victims. Students also had to write the Shahada (including the oath “There is no God by Allah”) and sing “Allahu Akbar” in an Arabic song. And a Muslim cleric who was a public school teacher peddled sharia and routinely left school early to conduct prayer services at his mosque. (He’s since been fired.)

Meanwhile Muslims continued to press for special accommodations, such as school closures for Muslim holidays. Mind you, federal law allows students of minority religions to take off from school on their religious holidays without any penalty. But this is not good enough for many Muslims who offer all manner of rationales for why they need more. Some cite relatively high (emphasis on relatively) percentages of Muslims who live in certain districts. But even when their numbers are scant the same pressure is applied, as in Baltimore where no tests are scheduled on Muslim holidays, despite the fact that Muslim students comprise a mere two-to-three percent of the student body.

In one case, a Muslim community leader argued that Muslim students don’t want to miss class even if the absence is excused because it would place an undue burden on them to catch up for the day they missed. So he wants school policy to prohibit tests on Muslim holidays and the day after so Muslim students won't have any pressure to study during their observance. He admits the ultimate goal is for the school district to close schools completely on those days because: “We want our sons and daughters to feel as American as anyone else and to be on equal footing as everyone else.” (Nice try. How about Muslim students cope just like Jewish students and Hindu students and students from other religious minorities who have been faring just fine? Deal with it!)

...

Read more: Articles: Islam in our schools


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## regent

Any way America can take back its schools or are they under Islam dominance forever?


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## Jackson

Esmeralda said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Esmeralda said:
> 
> 
> 
> American Jihad, it seems as though you are against indoctrination, against flooding someone's consciousness with ideas that have a goal, an agenda, that are biased in favor of one perspective. But, in reading all your posts on this thread, it seems to me that is exactly what you are doing.
> 
> All of your posts are flagrantly didactic epistles meant to sway the readers' opinion against those who teach in American schools and American schools themselves, and, as well, to convince the reader that schools and teachers are all liberal with a liberal agenda meant to indoctrinate and control the minds of the students.
> 
> However, nothing we will find in any educational facility is any stronger, if indeed it is as strong, or more strongly worded or intensely didactic, than your own posts, which very obviously have their own agenda and mean to teach a lesson, your lesson, and your perspective on the world.  I think you would do well to get a PhD in some field and apply for a teaching position at one of these institutions you are so ardently against so that you may, as you say others do, teach your own agenda but on a much wider scale than you are doing here.
> 
> Basically, to put it in simple terms you can understand, when something is over your head, you just say, "long winded liberal spiel."  LOL  Pathetic.
> Then maybe you'd be happy and not so all fired up and full of anger and resentment.  You&#8217;re going to develop heart disease if you don&#8217;t have it already.  My main point is that what you are doing in this tread is no different than what you are accusing others of doing.  You too have an agenda. You too have a perspective.
> 
> It is the tradition of colleges and universities to hire teachers who are not just teachers but writers, artists, journalists, thinkers, philosophers, etc., people who have diverse ideas to share with the students. It is the tradition of higher education to teach students to think and to accept or dismiss the varied ideas of their professors.
> 
> If you and others come out of college thinking you had to quell your own ideas in order to get good grades, you missed the point. If you believe any professor based his/her evaluation of you based on you accepting or not accepting that professor&#8217;s position, you should have made a formal complaint instead of pretending you believed things you didn&#8217;t believe.  I once taught rhetoric at the college level. I had many students who wrote argumentative papers expressing positions diametrically opposed to my own personal opinions. I never based a grade on the student agreeing with me. I often, regularly, gave A grades to papers against gun control and abortion, for example, if the paper was well written.   The quality of the argument and the writing were the only factors on which grades were based.  Any instructor who bases a grade on a student agreeing with him needs to be reported.
> 
> Universities hire professors or speakers with what seems to you very biased or outrageous ideas because they are supposed to be opening the minds of their students, offering them new ideas, thinking outside the box ideas, a kaleidoscope of ideas for the students to ponder and accept or reject as individual thinkers.
> 
> But you don&#8217;t seem to recognize you are doing what you accuse others of doing: trying to sway people to your way of seeing the world.  I wanted to point that out to you. Think about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typical Long winded liberal spiel =
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your response indicates your intellectual level, which is obviously not one able to access the content and focus of the American education system.  You are obviously a very simple minded person and cannot think in complex terms at all.  Obviously not one to judge how education and learning works in America, or anywhere.  Unable to understand anything beyond what you can fathom from the simple minded, single minded universe in which you live.
Click to expand...

You know very well of American Jihads intellectual level/  He is articulate and has opinions that differ from  yours.  You write about tolerance but I doubt if you practice it on this board.


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## Jackson

regent said:


> Any way America can take back its schools or are they under Islam dominance forever?


Parents have to be vocal in not just expressing their concerns but demanding that Islam is limited to a paragraph in the textbooks and mentions that terrorists  often come from these groups.


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## regent

I believe our fear often causes us to remain ignorant of the very thing causing our fear. It  allows politicians to then use that fear for political purposes. For example, we went through the red scare period with most schools afraid to teach about communism. I remember taking a college class on Marx and the instructor telling us to get a cover on our books or we would be accused of being communists. This is in America and in an institution of supposed higher learning. America went through the entire period of communism with schools afraid to teach about that great fear, and our ignorance became a  bonanza for politicians to scare us even more.  I would still be uncomfortable carrying that Marx book about. Hitler used the same fears to burn books, what was Hitler afraid of?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Wiseacre said:


> The only way I can see out of this is more competition from charter and private schools.   That, and reduce the power of public school teacher unions.   It's ridiculous, they care more about the paychecks and benefits than they do about the kids.



Do you have some bizarre misconception about the purpose of a union?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory

initforme said:


> If we are going to use a federal test to test kids then the teachers should be told exactly what concepts are going to be tested upon.  *As a parent if my kid is taking a test they should know exactly what concepts are going to be on the test. *  It is the duty of the party forcing the kids to take the test to tell the kids and parents exactly what will be on the test.  As a parent i can help work with my kid on those concepts.  How do I know exactly what to study if I am not told what kind of problems are going to be on the test or what rote memorization facts I need to memorize if I am not told these are going to be on the test?  The whole thing makes absolutely no sense and the punish a good teacher because a kid scored low on one test is frankly dumb.



Those are called standards and that is what everyone wants to do away with, instead of the whacked-out curricula schools have bought from textbook manufacturers.  Do the words "Common Core Standards" ring a bell?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> initforme said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is capitalism.  The best and brightest arent going to teach for wages they would be paid for dealing with american kids multiple endless problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> today a classroom generates $400,000 in revenue. The teacher gets $50,000 and the libturds waste the rest.
> 
> Pay the teacher 400k for capitalistic results and we'd have the best Republican education in the world!
Click to expand...


If we are just going to make up shit, why didn't you go for a million bucks?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> beagle9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say that it produces the dumbest kids in the world, but I bet it produces some of the most corruptible or corrupt kids in the world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dear, the international comparison tests show that our libturd union schools produce about the dumbest kids in the world, not the most corruptible. Sorry!
Click to expand...


Not true.  Why must you lie?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Polk said:
> 
> 
> 
> If public schools are so terrible, why do private schools not do any better?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no idea why you say that????????. There are several private schools that feed directly into the Ivy League, catholic schools are better than public *for less money,* etc etc
Click to expand...


Not true.  Why must you lie?


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> hunarcy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gallantwarrior said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.  Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, teach PhysEd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is a more accurate statement to say "Those who cannot do, teach.  Those who cannot teach, or do, go into politics and make laws about teaching."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> it is very safe to say that liberal unions are the proximate cause of our schools turning out about the dumbest kids in the civilized world.
> Some states may have weaker unions but the schools still function as liberal union monopolies and get the expected results.
Click to expand...


You are completely clueless on this topic.  Not all schools are like LA, NYC, Boston, Chicago, or Philly that make the news all of the time.


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there that the kids in districts that do well on these tests actually UNDERSTAND much?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libturds hate tests because tests don't lie!! *Our kids are the dumbest in the world yet libturds don't want to test them in order to cover up even further how badly the students and teachers are doing!*
Click to expand...


It has already been shown in this thread that your statement is not true.  Again, why must you lie?


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## psikeyhackr

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there that the kids in districts that do well on these tests actually UNDERSTAND much?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libturds hate tests because tests don't lie!! *Our kids are the dumbest in the world yet libturds don't want to test them in order to cover up even further how badly the students and teachers are doing!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has already been shown in this thread that your statement is not true.  Again, why must you lie?
Click to expand...


How can a question be a lie?  Do you see a question mark at the end or not?  Right after the word "much"!

In a history test a teacher asked , "What General said "Nuts!" to the Germans when asked to surrender at the Battle of the Bulge?"  What good is it to know the answer to that question?

psik


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## Admiral Rockwell Tory

psikeyhackr said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> psikeyhackr said:
> 
> 
> 
> What evidence is there that the kids in districts that do well on these tests actually UNDERSTAND much?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Libturds hate tests because tests don't lie!! *Our kids are the dumbest in the world yet libturds don't want to test them in order to cover up even further how badly the students and teachers are doing!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It has already been shown in this thread that your statement is not true.  Again, why must you lie?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How can a question be a lie?  Do you see a question mark at the end or not?  Right after the word "much"!
> 
> In a history test a teacher asked , "What General said "Nuts!" to the Germans when asked to surrender at the Battle of the Bulge?"  What good is it to know the answer to that question?
> 
> psik
Click to expand...


Look at the red text.  If you see a question mark, I suggest an immediate eye exam. Also the quote was not directed at you.

The answer to your question was that is often attributed to General McAuliffe who was commander of the 101st Airborne who was surrounded at the French city of Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge. 

It is good to know because it illustrates American resolve against the seriousness of the German counteroffensive that could have prolonged the war, but it did not because General Patton was able to rescue them.


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## initforme

Yes answering g that question is key to a good education.  My answer to that one is nobody cares.


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## Unkotare

initforme said:


> Yes answering g that question is key to a good education.  My answer to that one is nobody cares.




Says who, ignoramus?


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## EdwardBaiamonte

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> It has already been shown in this thread that your statement is not true.  Again, why must you lie?



dear, why not say what the lie is and why you think its a lie?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> It has already been shown in this thread that your statement is not true.  Again, why must you lie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dear, why not say what the lie is and why you think its a lie?
Click to expand...


OK, dear heart.  Look back at your post that I quoted.  See the red text?  That is the lie!

Maybe they can finally teach you how to read when you get back to elementary school.  Does Mommy know you are playing on her computer?


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## EdwardBaiamonte

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> That is the lie!



why so afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does your fear teach us?


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## Jackson

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the lie!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why so afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does your fear teach us?
Click to expand...

Edward, he pointed to the fact that the reader was supposed to look back at the quote in red.  Do you see it now?


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Jackson said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the lie!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why so afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does your fear teach us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Edward, he pointed to the fact that the reader was supposed to look back at the quote in red.  Do you see it now?
Click to expand...


I see that he is  afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does his  fear teach us?


----------



## Jackson

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the lie!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why so afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does your fear teach us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Edward, he pointed to the fact that the reader was supposed to look back at the quote in red.  Do you see it now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see that he is  afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does his  fear teach us?
Click to expand...

Edward, je told you to LOOK AT THE RED TEXT>  THAT WAS THE LIE!


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Jackson said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the lie!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why so afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does your fear teach us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Edward, he pointed to the fact that the reader was supposed to look back at the quote in red.  Do you see it now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see that he is  afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does his  fear teach us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Edward, je told you to LOOK AT THE RED TEXT>  THAT WAS THE LIE!
Click to expand...


dear, anyone can say something is a lie. Do you understand?? The question is, why is it a lie. Do you understand?


----------



## Jackson

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the lie!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why so afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does your fear teach us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Edward, he pointed to the fact that the reader was supposed to look back at the quote in red.  Do you see it now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see that he is  afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does his  fear teach us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Edward, je told you to LOOK AT THE RED TEXT>  THAT WAS THE LIE!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> dear, anyone can say something is a lie. Do you understand?? The question is, why is it a lie. Do you understand?
Click to expand...

That isn't what you keep saying. You kept saying "why so afraid to state the lie "  ...I see that he is  afraid to state the lie ..."  Now you want to know why.  Glad to see you finally found the text in red.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Jackson said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> why so afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does your fear teach us?
> 
> 
> 
> Edward, he pointed to the fact that the reader was supposed to look back at the quote in red.  Do you see it now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see that he is  afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does his  fear teach us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Edward, je told you to LOOK AT THE RED TEXT>  THAT WAS THE LIE!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> dear, anyone can say something is a lie. Do you understand?? The question is, why is it a lie. Do you understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That isn't what you keep saying. You kept saying "why so afraid to state the lie "  ...I see that he is  afraid to state the lie ..."  Now you want to know why.  Glad to see you finally found the text in red.
Click to expand...

why not cut the BS and tell us why its a lie? What does your fear teach us?


----------



## Jackson

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the lie!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why so afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does your fear teach us?
Click to expand...

The comment in red, "*Our kids are the dumbest in the world yet libturds don't want to test them in order to cover up even further how badly the students and teachers are doing!"  *does have validity.  Some educators are afraid of the testing situation because they feel it would reflect on them.  Which is natural.

Sometimes fear is good.  If you are afraid of the class showing poor progress, that just may instill the desire to teach more completely, reteach when necessary and strategize your performance for better results.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jackson said:
> 
> 
> 
> Edward, he pointed to the fact that the reader was supposed to look back at the quote in red.  Do you see it now?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see that he is  afraid to state the lie and tell us why its a lie?? What does his  fear teach us?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Edward, je told you to LOOK AT THE RED TEXT>  THAT WAS THE LIE!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> dear, anyone can say something is a lie. Do you understand?? The question is, why is it a lie. Do you understand?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That isn't what you keep saying. You kept saying "why so afraid to state the lie "  ...I see that he is  afraid to state the lie ..."  Now you want to know why.  Glad to see you finally found the text in red.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> why not cut the BS and tell us why its a lie? What does your fear teach us?
Click to expand...


You keep making the idiotic claim that our kids are the dumbest in the world.  You know that is not true so why do you keep repeating the same lie?

Your reading comprehension is apparently at about the third grade level.  Maybe you should seek help.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You know that is not true so why do you keep repeating the same lie?



so what is the truth???


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know that is not true so why do you keep repeating the same lie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so what is the truth???
Click to expand...


Apparently you wouldn't recognize it if it slapped yow upside the the head.


----------



## initforme

Edward perhaps you should give up all your earning potential and go teach in an inner city school, in a general course all kids have to take.  Its time to make a difference.  You can do it!


----------



## DGS49

"American kids" covers a lot of ground.  The reality is more complex and makes many people uncomfortable.

If you look at the intelligence and academic performance of white kids of western European background, their performance is very comparable to their counterparts in Western Europe, although the schools' academic requirements over there are somewhat more rigorous for those in the academic track.  And note that in Europe there are no school sports, and few non-academic extracurricular activities to distract the students.

American kids of Asian and Indian extraction (India), same thing.  Similar performance to their counterparts "back home."  Which is a great thing.

Mexican and other kids of "Hispanic" ancestry, same thing.  Which is not a good thing, as the academic performance in those countries is relatively poor.

African American students have no global counterparts; their genetic "cousins" in Africa are too far removed, and few are pure African genetically.  But their academic performance in this country, on the whole, is dreadful and pull down the overall averages.

Counting all of these demographic groups together makes it look like "American" kids are badly lagging behind other developed countries, but the truth is that our academic performance is just about where one would expect it, for each respective demographic.


----------



## Unkotare

initforme said:


> Edward perhaps you should give up all your earning potential and go teach in an inner city school, in a general course all kids have to take.  Its time to make a difference.  You can do it!







Not bad advice


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know that is not true so why do you keep repeating the same lie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so what is the truth???
Click to expand...


Is that supposed to be a sentence?

Stop using yourself as a measuring stick of how intelligent our kids are compared to overseas.  Apparently everyone over there is much brighter than you are!


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know that is not true so why do you keep repeating the same lie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so what is the truth???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that supposed to be a sentence?
> 
> Stop using yourself as a measuring stick of how intelligent our kids are compared to overseas.  Apparently everyone over there is much brighter than you are!
Click to expand...


_so what is the truth??? what does your fear of  of telling us  teach you??_


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

DGS49 said:


> but the truth is that our academic performance is just about where one would expect it, for each respective demographic.



when you put all American kids together  they test as about the dumbest kids in the civilized world. This is because liberals have destroyed American families and American schools. The solution is to eliminate the liberal influence, obviously.


----------



## initforme

Yes and replace it with southern conservative backass hick slavery was not bad history.  Yes let's regress 200 years.  Are you working towards your teaching degree so you can fix it all?  Be ready to give up a lot of pay to do it though Eddie.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but the truth is that our academic performance is just about where one would expect it, for each respective demographic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when you put all American kids together  they test as about the dumbest kids in the civilized world. This is because liberals have destroyed American families and American schools. The solution is to eliminate the liberal influence, obviously.
Click to expand...


Where is your source for this total and complete lunacy?


----------



## mgh80

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know that is not true so why do you keep repeating the same lie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so what is the truth???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is that supposed to be a sentence?
> 
> Stop using yourself as a measuring stick of how intelligent our kids are compared to overseas.  Apparently everyone over there is much brighter than you are!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _so what is the truth??? what does your fear of  of telling us  teach you??_
Click to expand...


The truth Edward, is that you don't even know how to write a complete sentence.

There are plenty of non-liberal teachers that don't really mind testing.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

mgh80 said:


> There are plenty of non-liberal teachers that don't really mind testing.



Let's start with the ABC's:
1) liberals destroyed the American family
2) liberals destroyed the schools
3) tests show that American kids are about the dumbest in the civilized world
4) liberals hate tests because they prove that liberals have destroyed the family and schools


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

initforme said:


> Yes and replace it with southern conservative backass hick slavery was not bad history.



what?????????????? typical liberal illiterate


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> DGS49 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but the truth is that our academic performance is just about where one would expect it, for each respective demographic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *when you put all American kids together  they test as about the dumbest kids in the civilized world. *This is because liberals have destroyed American families and American schools. The solution is to eliminate the liberal influence, obviously.
Click to expand...


Do you think that repeating this lie enough will make it true?


----------



## American_Jihad

*The mother must be a liberal...*

*High School Student Replaces USA with ISIS During Pledge*

*That's just stupid even if it is a joke.*

1.21.2016
News
Trey Sanchez







  The Associated Press is reporting that a Connecticut high school student has been removed from school because he exchanged "ISIS" for the "United States of America" during the morning Pledge of Allegiance.

Though the 15-year-old boy wasn't charged with a crime, the case was given to the Department of Homeland Security. A description of the child was not given but police are assuring that there is no threat to the community.

...

  The AP states that the boy's mother is not happy about her son being removed from school, calling it "an irrational decision."


High School Student Replaces USA with ISIS During Pledge


----------



## American_Jihad

*Crybully "Muscle" Prof Melissa Click in Trouble for Cursing at Cops *
February 15, 2016
Daniel Greenfield





Melissa Click, the ridiculously obnoxious Missouri University assistant professor of communication, who became a nationwide sensation while calling for "muscle" to use against a student journalist is in trouble again.

Click came to fame during the crybully Concerned Students 1950 Mizzou hoax campus protests, whose success in forcing out administrators over baseless concerns became a national template. But, despite police charges, the college, which had been badly battered by the crybullies of color, gave her a pass.

Video x 2
...

You can see her non-violence on display in two videos now.

Crybully "Muscle" Prof Melissa Click in Trouble for Cursing at Cops


----------



## Unkotare

That bitch clearly should be working at the DMV.


----------



## American_Jihad

**
*Other Jobs Melissa Click Can Do After Getting Fired by U of Missouri*
February 25, 2016
Daniel Greenfield






  Melissa Click became the obnoxious and sanctimonious face of the left's campus crybully movement when she attempted to intimidate a student journalist and called for "muscle" to remove him. Now, after attempts to let her off with a slap of the wrist failed due to the release of yet another video, Click has been unclicked.

The University of Missouri Board of Curators on Thursday fired a communications professor who was captured on video scrapping with a police officer and a student journalist during campus protests last year.

The board voted 4-2 in favor of firing Assistant Professor of Communication Melissa Click, who had been suspended with pay from the school since Jan. 27.

Don't assume that Melissa Click is gone though. She hired a rep firm and the black group that started all this, Concerned Students 1950, is in her corner. But in the meantime, here are some other jobs that Click might be qualified for.

...

Other Jobs Melissa Click Can Do After Getting Fired by U of Missouri


----------



## American_Jihad

*First-Grade Teacher Defends Her Decision to Take Kids on Black Lives Matter March*
Mar. 18, 2016 3:00pm  Chris Enloe

A first-grade teacher in North Carolina who took her students to a Black Lives Matter march without the consent of parents is defending her actions after being criticized in a scathing op-ed in the Daily Caller published Wednesday.

That teacher, Ms. Bernal-Martinez of Central Park School for Children in Durham, told progressive North Carolina news outlet Indy Week that it was actually the decision of the students to attend the march. She said her students chose to investigate the background of the Black Lives Matter movement and wanted to get involved following their investigations.






...

First-Grade Teacher Defends Her Decision to Take Kids on Black Lives Matter March


----------



## American_Jihad

April 19, 2017
*Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret*
By R. Claire Friend

...

A study released by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found that there is a six- to eight-fold increase in the high school dropout rate among students who fail to achieve proficiency by the third grade. Recent large studies have compared dropout rates and incarceration.

Robert Balfanz at Johns Hopkins University found that 80-90% of students who do not achieve literacy in the third grade fail to graduate high school on time and face a fourfold risk of jail or prison.

Another study by Dr. Andrew Sum at Northeastern University reported by the New York _Times_ noted a 63% higher rate of incarceration among school dropouts. One in 10 young male high school dropouts is in jail or a juvenile detention facility compared to 1 in 35 young males high school graduates. 

...

It is imperative that every avenue to improve the public education be pursued, from overhauling existing union policies regarding training and tenure of teachers to promoting vouchers, charter schools, Education Saving Accounts, home schooling and online courses as well as developing innovative new teaching strategies.

Read more: Articles: Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret


----------



## Unkotare

Self reply X 5


----------



## American_Jihad

Unkotare said:


> Self reply X 5



Views: 26,115
You're a good bump/master, but next time wait a few hours...


----------



## Unkotare

American_Jihad said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self reply X 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Views: 26,115
> You're a good bump/master, but next time wait a few hours...
Click to expand...


How sad that no one wants to talk to you but you.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

American_Jihad said:


> April 19, 2017
> *Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret*
> By R. Claire Friend
> 
> ...
> 
> A study released by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found that there is a six- to eight-fold increase in the high school dropout rate among students who fail to achieve proficiency by the third grade. Recent large studies have compared dropout rates and incarceration.
> 
> Robert Balfanz at Johns Hopkins University found that 80-90% of students who do not achieve literacy in the third grade fail to graduate high school on time and face a fourfold risk of jail or prison.
> 
> Another study by Dr. Andrew Sum at Northeastern University reported by the New York _Times_ noted a 63% higher rate of incarceration among school dropouts. One in 10 young male high school dropouts is in jail or a juvenile detention facility compared to 1 in 35 young males high school graduates.
> 
> ...
> 
> It is imperative that every avenue to improve the public education be pursued, from overhauling existing union policies regarding training and tenure of teachers to promoting vouchers, charter schools, Education Saving Accounts, home schooling and online courses as well as developing innovative new teaching strategies.
> 
> Read more: Articles: Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret



Newsflash:  Good students graduate and get jobs.  Morons drop out and usually go to jail!

Nothing to see here.  This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.

PS:  There are very few bad schools.  They are just lots and lots of buildings filled with bad students.

I had 18 students fail this year.  About 15 missed a couple of months of school.


----------



## koshergrl

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> April 19, 2017
> *Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret*
> By R. Claire Friend
> 
> ...
> 
> A study released by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found that there is a six- to eight-fold increase in the high school dropout rate among students who fail to achieve proficiency by the third grade. Recent large studies have compared dropout rates and incarceration.
> 
> Robert Balfanz at Johns Hopkins University found that 80-90% of students who do not achieve literacy in the third grade fail to graduate high school on time and face a fourfold risk of jail or prison.
> 
> Another study by Dr. Andrew Sum at Northeastern University reported by the New York _Times_ noted a 63% higher rate of incarceration among school dropouts. One in 10 young male high school dropouts is in jail or a juvenile detention facility compared to 1 in 35 young males high school graduates.
> 
> ...
> 
> It is imperative that every avenue to improve the public education be pursued, from overhauling existing union policies regarding training and tenure of teachers to promoting vouchers, charter schools, Education Saving Accounts, home schooling and online courses as well as developing innovative new teaching strategies.
> 
> Read more: Articles: Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newsflash:  Good students graduate and get jobs.  Morons drop out and usually go to jail!
> 
> Nothing to see here.  This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> PS:  There are no bad schools.  They are just buildings filled with bad students.
Click to expand...


There sure as shit are bad schools. They're filled with bad teachers, and headed up by idiot administrators.


----------



## American_Jihad

Unkotare said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Self reply X 5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Views: 26,115
> You're a good bump/master, but next time wait a few hours...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How sad that no one wants to talk to you but you.
Click to expand...

Looks like my bump/master has bigger problems to deal with, oh my hope your not into Anime...


----------



## American_Jihad

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> April 19, 2017
> *Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret*
> By R. Claire Friend
> 
> ...
> 
> A study released by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found that there is a six- to eight-fold increase in the high school dropout rate among students who fail to achieve proficiency by the third grade. Recent large studies have compared dropout rates and incarceration.
> 
> Robert Balfanz at Johns Hopkins University found that 80-90% of students who do not achieve literacy in the third grade fail to graduate high school on time and face a fourfold risk of jail or prison.
> 
> Another study by Dr. Andrew Sum at Northeastern University reported by the New York _Times_ noted a 63% higher rate of incarceration among school dropouts. One in 10 young male high school dropouts is in jail or a juvenile detention facility compared to 1 in 35 young males high school graduates.
> 
> ...
> 
> It is imperative that every avenue to improve the public education be pursued, from overhauling existing union policies regarding training and tenure of teachers to promoting vouchers, charter schools, Education Saving Accounts, home schooling and online courses as well as developing innovative new teaching strategies.
> 
> Read more: Articles: Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newsflash:  Good students graduate and get jobs.  Morons drop out and usually go to jail!
> 
> Nothing to see here.  This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> PS:  There are very few bad schools.  They are just lots and lots of buildings filled with bad students.
> 
> I had 18 students fail this year.  About 15 missed a couple of months of school.
Click to expand...




Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> Nothing to see here. This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.


Now you know what everybody wants to change, with an attitude as yours that's why it's hard to do. Maybe we need to get rid of teachers like you...


----------



## Jackson

Finally, someone will observe the common sense aproach to basic education,grades K thru 3.  The only subjects that should be taught is reading language arts and math.  Once they have mastered reading, writing and math, bring content material (social studies, geography  etc.  No student should be promoted if their reading levels aren't on grade level.


----------



## Unkotare

*ahem*.  ^^^^^^^^


----------



## Jackson

Unkotare said:


> *ahem*.  ^^^^^^^^


I see you are up to your common post.  Nothing.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

American_Jihad said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> April 19, 2017
> *Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret*
> By R. Claire Friend
> 
> ...
> 
> A study released by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found that there is a six- to eight-fold increase in the high school dropout rate among students who fail to achieve proficiency by the third grade. Recent large studies have compared dropout rates and incarceration.
> 
> Robert Balfanz at Johns Hopkins University found that 80-90% of students who do not achieve literacy in the third grade fail to graduate high school on time and face a fourfold risk of jail or prison.
> 
> Another study by Dr. Andrew Sum at Northeastern University reported by the New York _Times_ noted a 63% higher rate of incarceration among school dropouts. One in 10 young male high school dropouts is in jail or a juvenile detention facility compared to 1 in 35 young males high school graduates.
> 
> ...
> 
> It is imperative that every avenue to improve the public education be pursued, from overhauling existing union policies regarding training and tenure of teachers to promoting vouchers, charter schools, Education Saving Accounts, home schooling and online courses as well as developing innovative new teaching strategies.
> 
> Read more: Articles: Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newsflash:  Good students graduate and get jobs.  Morons drop out and usually go to jail!
> 
> Nothing to see here.  This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> PS:  There are very few bad schools.  They are just lots and lots of buildings filled with bad students.
> 
> I had 18 students fail this year.  About 15 missed a couple of months of school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to see here. This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you know what everybody wants to change, with an attitude as yours that's why it's hard to do. Maybe we need to get rid of teachers like you...
Click to expand...


So why can't you tell me why I am wrong?  Are you so ignorant of the school systems that you cannot even put your finger on how you can disprove my points?  Your statements are pure bullshit!  

The teacher's unions have no control on whether kids even bother to show up for class, pay attention, do their assignments and actually learn something.  

If I have such an attitude, why do you blame the union?  I am not a union member and have not been for almost 10 years.  They have no input on my teaching anyway.

Why can't you see that your scapegoat is the unions, but they are not responsible for anything you find wrong with schools?

You are simply another education critic who obviously failed at learning anything about the process of education, despite the fact that you probably have some diplomas.  All you do is repeat the lies that many conservatives have heard over the years and internalize them as fact, when nothing could be further from the truth!

Since you education apparently did not take, it is a miracle that you haven't been locked up yet!


----------



## initforme

Because fox news says unions are bad,  morons lap it up.  They want their 15 bucks an hour and think that's a good wage. God they are dirt dumb.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> April 19, 2017
> *Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret*
> By R. Claire Friend
> 
> ...
> 
> A study released by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found that there is a six- to eight-fold increase in the high school dropout rate among students who fail to achieve proficiency by the third grade. Recent large studies have compared dropout rates and incarceration.
> 
> Robert Balfanz at Johns Hopkins University found that 80-90% of students who do not achieve literacy in the third grade fail to graduate high school on time and face a fourfold risk of jail or prison.
> 
> Another study by Dr. Andrew Sum at Northeastern University reported by the New York _Times_ noted a 63% higher rate of incarceration among school dropouts. One in 10 young male high school dropouts is in jail or a juvenile detention facility compared to 1 in 35 young males high school graduates.
> 
> ...
> 
> It is imperative that every avenue to improve the public education be pursued, from overhauling existing union policies regarding training and tenure of teachers to promoting vouchers, charter schools, Education Saving Accounts, home schooling and online courses as well as developing innovative new teaching strategies.
> 
> Read more: Articles: Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newsflash:  Good students graduate and get jobs.  Morons drop out and usually go to jail!
> 
> Nothing to see here.  This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> PS:  There are very few bad schools.  They are just lots and lots of buildings filled with bad students.
> 
> I had 18 students fail this year.  About 15 missed a couple of months of school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to see here. This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you know what everybody wants to change, with an attitude as yours that's why it's hard to do. Maybe we need to get rid of teachers like you...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So why can't you tell me why I am wrong?  Are you so ignorant of the school systems that you cannot even put your finger on how you can disprove my points?  Your statements are pure bullshit!
> 
> The teacher's unions have no control on whether kids even bother to show up for class, pay attention, do their assignments and actually learn something.
> 
> If I have such an attitude, why do you blame the union?  I am not a union member and have not been for almost 10 years.  They have no input on my teaching anyway.
> 
> Why can't you see that your scapegoat is the unions, but they are not responsible for anything you find wrong with schools?
> 
> You are simply another education critic who obviously failed at learning anything about the process of education, despite the fact that you probably have some diplomas.  All you do is repeat the lies that many conservatives have heard over the years and internalize them as fact, when nothing could be further from the truth!
> 
> Since you education apparently did not take, it is a miracle that you haven't been locked up yet!
Click to expand...


unions are for teachers not students so should be illegal. They are at the heart of our educational problem.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

initforme said:


> Because fox news says unions are bad,  morons lap it up. .



unions drove 10 million jobs off shore so should be made illegal!!


----------



## Jackson

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> April 19, 2017
> *Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret*
> By R. Claire Friend
> 
> ...
> 
> A study released by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found that there is a six- to eight-fold increase in the high school dropout rate among students who fail to achieve proficiency by the third grade. Recent large studies have compared dropout rates and incarceration.
> 
> Robert Balfanz at Johns Hopkins University found that 80-90% of students who do not achieve literacy in the third grade fail to graduate high school on time and face a fourfold risk of jail or prison.
> 
> Another study by Dr. Andrew Sum at Northeastern University reported by the New York _Times_ noted a 63% higher rate of incarceration among school dropouts. One in 10 young male high school dropouts is in jail or a juvenile detention facility compared to 1 in 35 young males high school graduates.
> 
> ...
> 
> It is imperative that every avenue to improve the public education be pursued, from overhauling existing union policies regarding training and tenure of teachers to promoting vouchers, charter schools, Education Saving Accounts, home schooling and online courses as well as developing innovative new teaching strategies.
> 
> Read more: Articles: Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newsflash:  Good students graduate and get jobs.  Morons drop out and usually go to jail!
> 
> Nothing to see here.  This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> PS:  There are very few bad schools.  They are just lots and lots of buildings filled with bad students.
> 
> I had 18 students fail this year.  About 15 missed a couple of months of school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to see here. This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you know what everybody wants to change, with an attitude as yours that's why it's hard to do. Maybe we need to get rid of teachers like you...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So why can't you tell me why I am wrong?  Are you so ignorant of the school systems that you cannot even put your finger on how you can disprove my points?  Your statements are pure bullshit!
> 
> The teacher's unions have no control on whether kids even bother to show up for class, pay attention, do their assignments and actually learn something.
> 
> If I have such an attitude, why do you blame the union?  I am not a union member and have not been for almost 10 years.  They have no input on my teaching anyway.
> 
> Why can't you see that your scapegoat is the unions, but they are not responsible for anything you find wrong with schools?
> 
> You are simply another education critic who obviously failed at learning anything about the process of education, despite the fact that you probably have some diplomas.  All you do is repeat the lies that many conservatives have heard over the years and internalize them as fact, when nothing could be further from the truth!
> 
> Since your education apparently did not take, it is a miracle that you haven't been locked up yet!
Click to expand...

 I don't like to label children as "bad Students.'"  There are students who are disadvantaged and need great teachers who look for ways to get across to the students more than others.  Some times they need more repetitions and time to build that foundation, but once the foundation is created, they can be very successful.  Sure, there are terrible homes that are unsuccessful and the their children are not the priority in those families.  But just because there are needs not being met there, we can have a a more lilimited curriculum for them, eliminating the social engineering aspects of our education tiday.

The best teachers sould be the highest paid teachers, and not afraid of keeping students back due to grades, nor should they be teaching in any school.  They should be teaching where the disadvantaged students are and their students growth evaluated each year.

Unions do not care about the disadvantaged. but they care about the pay scale of all teachers. We need representation that affects the students in positive ways as well represents those teachers that realize the importance of efficacy in every classroom.

Some students will learn regardless of the lack of efficacy of the teacher where students are motivated by the home and have above average intelligence.


----------



## Jackson

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> April 19, 2017
> *Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret*
> By R. Claire Friend
> 
> ...
> 
> A study released by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found that there is a six- to eight-fold increase in the high school dropout rate among students who fail to achieve proficiency by the third grade. Recent large studies have compared dropout rates and incarceration.
> 
> Robert Balfanz at Johns Hopkins University found that 80-90% of students who do not achieve literacy in the third grade fail to graduate high school on time and face a fourfold risk of jail or prison.
> 
> Another study by Dr. Andrew Sum at Northeastern University reported by the New York _Times_ noted a 63% higher rate of incarceration among school dropouts. One in 10 young male high school dropouts is in jail or a juvenile detention facility compared to 1 in 35 young males high school graduates.
> 
> ...
> 
> It is imperative that every avenue to improve the public education be pursued, from overhauling existing union policies regarding training and tenure of teachers to promoting vouchers, charter schools, Education Saving Accounts, home schooling and online courses as well as developing innovative new teaching strategies.
> 
> Read more: Articles: Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newsflash:  Good students graduate and get jobs.  Morons drop out and usually go to jail!
> 
> Nothing to see here.  This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> PS:  There are very few bad schools.  They are just lots and lots of buildings filled with bad students.
> 
> I had 18 students fail this year.  About 15 missed a couple of months of school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to see here. This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you know what everybody wants to change, with an attitude as yours that's why it's hard to do. Maybe we need to get rid of teachers like you...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So why can't you tell me why I am wrong?  Are you so ignorant of the school systems that you cannot even put your finger on how you can disprove my points?  Your statements are pure bullshit!
> 
> The teacher's unions have no control on whether kids even bother to show up for class, pay attention, do their assignments and actually learn something.
> 
> If I have such an attitude, why do you blame the union?  I am not a union member and have not been for almost 10 years.  They have no input on my teaching anyway.
> 
> Why can't you see that your scapegoat is the unions, but they are not responsible for anything you find wrong with schools?
> 
> You are simply another education critic who obviously failed at learning anything about the process of education, despite the fact that you probably have some diplomas.  All you do is repeat the lies that many conservatives have heard over the years and internalize them as fact, when nothing could be further from the truth!
> 
> Since you education apparently did not take, it is a miracle that you haven't been locked up yet!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> unions are for teachers not students so should be illegal. They are at the heart of our educational problem.
Click to expand...

Rather than Unions who contribute excessively to political parties, we need a Non Political Association that are seeking the best practices for all chldren and teachers, not just some.


----------



## Unkotare

Jackson said:


> ...
> 
> The best teachers sould [sic] be the highest paid teachers, and not afraid of keeping students back due to grades, nor should they be teaching in any school [sic].  They should be teaching where the disadvantaged students are [sic] and their students [sic] growth evaluated each year.....




Pay is a complicated matter, but the teachers who can handle the toughest schools generally gravitate there. Students are, of course, evaluated more often than just annually.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

Jackson said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> April 19, 2017
> *Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret*
> By R. Claire Friend
> 
> ...
> 
> A study released by the Annie E. Casey Foundation found that there is a six- to eight-fold increase in the high school dropout rate among students who fail to achieve proficiency by the third grade. Recent large studies have compared dropout rates and incarceration.
> 
> Robert Balfanz at Johns Hopkins University found that 80-90% of students who do not achieve literacy in the third grade fail to graduate high school on time and face a fourfold risk of jail or prison.
> 
> Another study by Dr. Andrew Sum at Northeastern University reported by the New York _Times_ noted a 63% higher rate of incarceration among school dropouts. One in 10 young male high school dropouts is in jail or a juvenile detention facility compared to 1 in 35 young males high school graduates.
> 
> ...
> 
> It is imperative that every avenue to improve the public education be pursued, from overhauling existing union policies regarding training and tenure of teachers to promoting vouchers, charter schools, Education Saving Accounts, home schooling and online courses as well as developing innovative new teaching strategies.
> 
> Read more: Articles: Go to Bad Schools, Go to Prison: The Teacher Union's Dirty Little Secret
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newsflash:  Good students graduate and get jobs.  Morons drop out and usually go to jail!
> 
> Nothing to see here.  This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> PS:  There are very few bad schools.  They are just lots and lots of buildings filled with bad students.
> 
> I had 18 students fail this year.  About 15 missed a couple of months of school.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to see here. This just repeats something that everyone has known forever.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you know what everybody wants to change, with an attitude as yours that's why it's hard to do. Maybe we need to get rid of teachers like you...
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So why can't you tell me why I am wrong?  Are you so ignorant of the school systems that you cannot even put your finger on how you can disprove my points?  Your statements are pure bullshit!
> 
> The teacher's unions have no control on whether kids even bother to show up for class, pay attention, do their assignments and actually learn something.
> 
> If I have such an attitude, why do you blame the union?  I am not a union member and have not been for almost 10 years.  They have no input on my teaching anyway.
> 
> Why can't you see that your scapegoat is the unions, but they are not responsible for anything you find wrong with schools?
> 
> You are simply another education critic who obviously failed at learning anything about the process of education, despite the fact that you probably have some diplomas.  All you do is repeat the lies that many conservatives have heard over the years and internalize them as fact, when nothing could be further from the truth!
> 
> Since you education apparently did not take, it is a miracle that you haven't been locked up yet!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> unions are for teachers not students so should be illegal. They are at the heart of our educational problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Rather than Unions who contribute excessively to political parties, we need a Non Political Association that are seeking the best practices for all chldren and teachers, not just some.
Click to expand...


That defeats the purpose of a union.  What you are describing  already exists. It is called the PTA or PTO depending where you are.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> That defeats the purpose of a union.



the purpose of a union is more pay, less work, lower quality, better working conditions. Is it any wonder our union controlled schools turn out about the dumbest kids in the world?


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> That defeats the purpose of a union.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the purpose of a union is more pay, less work, lower quality, better working conditions. Is it any wonder our union controlled schools turn out about the dumbest kids in the world?
Click to expand...


If that were true (which it is not true for teacher's unions) they have failed miserably.

It is long hours, horrible pay, better quality always being required, and worse working conditions.

You last statement is a bald-faced lie, and you know it.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> If that were true (which it is not true for teacher's unions) they have failed miserably.
> .



its obviously true our union schools turn out about the dumbest kids in the civilized world. We should have the best schools not soviet union schools.


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> It is long hours, horrible pay, better quality always being required, and worse working conditions.


long hours??? horrible pay?? it might be twice the pay that a free market would pay. You don't know so why not stop being stupid??


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> You last statement is a bald-faced lie, and you know it.



you mean American soviet union schools turn out about the smartest kids in the civilized world?? Is that what you mean???????


----------



## American_Jihad

*PTA President Performed Erotic Drag Routine for Public School Kids*
*Sometimes there are just no words.*
6.8.2017 

News

Trey Sanchez

...

“People were horrified,” Raquel Morales, who was with her fifth-grade son, said. “It looked like a nightclub performance. I’ve been asking for an apology from the district for the last week, and they’ve been ignoring it.”

All that she’s been told is that ”the performance was about LGBT awareness.”

Morales’s son said, “I saw her doing things like sticking her legs out and shaking her bottom and it felt weird. I don’t know why they would do that for an elementary school.”

...

PTA President Performed Erotic Drag Routine for Public School Kids


----------



## American_Jihad

*THE BRUTAL BATTLE AGAINST MEDICAL KIDNAPPERS*
*How powerful medical care providers are imprisoning and torturing sick kids.*
June 28, 2017

Michelle Malkin







BOSTON — On the day Boston Children's Hospital celebrated being named "the number one pediatric hospital in the nation" by U.S. News & World Report, I was interviewing Dana Gottesfeld in nearby Somerville, Massachusetts. Dana is the young wife of Martin "Marty G" Gottesfeld, an imprisoned technology engineer/activist who used his skills to fight against medical child abuse committed at Boston's Children's Hospital.

"That is so Boston," Dana observed Tuesday in response to the new ranking — which is already splashed in multiple gold medallions across the hospital's website.

It's all about power, prestige and pull in the top echelons of the Bay State's medical community, many New Englanders have informed me. BCH's teaching affiliate is Harvard Medical School. The ties between and among influential and wealthy alumni in the realms of health care, politics and the courts are innumerable. 

It's a network that's "practically untouchable," Dana explained. 

And like the third rail, those who dare challenge these renowned institutions risk great danger to their freedom and their lives.

...

Marty's message from prison in Massachusetts: "Human rights abuses aren't just happening in North Korea. They're here." 

Justina's message from her wheelchair in Connecticut: She hopes her torturers "get what they deserve."

Is anyone in Washington listening?

The Brutal Battle Against Medical Kidnappers


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

American_Jihad said:


> *THE BRUTAL BATTLE AGAINST MEDICAL KIDNAPPERS*
> *How powerful medical care providers are imprisoning and torturing sick kids.*
> June 28, 2017
> 
> Michelle Malkin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BOSTON — On the day Boston Children's Hospital celebrated being named "the number one pediatric hospital in the nation" by U.S. News & World Report, I was interviewing Dana Gottesfeld in nearby Somerville, Massachusetts. Dana is the young wife of Martin "Marty G" Gottesfeld, an imprisoned technology engineer/activist who used his skills to fight against medical child abuse committed at Boston's Children's Hospital.
> 
> "That is so Boston," Dana observed Tuesday in response to the new ranking — which is already splashed in multiple gold medallions across the hospital's website.
> 
> It's all about power, prestige and pull in the top echelons of the Bay State's medical community, many New Englanders have informed me. BCH's teaching affiliate is Harvard Medical School. The ties between and among influential and wealthy alumni in the realms of health care, politics and the courts are innumerable.
> 
> It's a network that's "practically untouchable," Dana explained.
> 
> And like the third rail, those who dare challenge these renowned institutions risk great danger to their freedom and their lives.
> 
> ...
> 
> Marty's message from prison in Massachusetts: "Human rights abuses aren't just happening in North Korea. They're here."
> 
> Justina's message from her wheelchair in Connecticut: She hopes her torturers "get what they deserve."
> 
> Is anyone in Washington listening?
> 
> The Brutal Battle Against Medical Kidnappers



Why is this in this thread?


----------



## American_Jihad

Admiral Rockwell Tory said:


> American_Jihad said:
> 
> 
> 
> *THE BRUTAL BATTLE AGAINST MEDICAL KIDNAPPERS*
> *How powerful medical care providers are imprisoning and torturing sick kids.*
> June 28, 2017
> 
> Michelle Malkin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BOSTON — On the day Boston Children's Hospital celebrated being named "the number one pediatric hospital in the nation" by U.S. News & World Report, I was interviewing Dana Gottesfeld in nearby Somerville, Massachusetts. Dana is the young wife of Martin "Marty G" Gottesfeld, an imprisoned technology engineer/activist who used his skills to fight against medical child abuse committed at Boston's Children's Hospital.
> 
> "That is so Boston," Dana observed Tuesday in response to the new ranking — which is already splashed in multiple gold medallions across the hospital's website.
> 
> It's all about power, prestige and pull in the top echelons of the Bay State's medical community, many New Englanders have informed me. BCH's teaching affiliate is Harvard Medical School. The ties between and among influential and wealthy alumni in the realms of health care, politics and the courts are innumerable.
> 
> It's a network that's "practically untouchable," Dana explained.
> 
> And like the third rail, those who dare challenge these renowned institutions risk great danger to their freedom and their lives.
> 
> ...
> 
> Marty's message from prison in Massachusetts: "Human rights abuses aren't just happening in North Korea. They're here."
> 
> Justina's message from her wheelchair in Connecticut: She hopes her torturers "get what they deserve."
> 
> Is anyone in Washington listening?
> 
> The Brutal Battle Against Medical Kidnappers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this in this thread?
Click to expand...

I would have had a better place to put it, but you weren't here at the time...


----------



## American_Jihad

*TEACHER BUSTED FORTHREATENING COPS AT BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTEST*
August 27, 2017

Daniel Greenfield






...

If you can actually stomach the video, Ed Sheerin, an aging white leftist, is violently screaming insults at a line of police officers. And he's not alone. Some of the Black Lives Matter racist and younger leftist punks taunt the officers as cowards who are afraid of them.

The climax comes when he tells the police to come to his house. Spoiler alert. They do. And Ed isn't nearly as tough as he thinks.

...

Teacher Busted for Threatening Cops at Black Lives Matter Protest


----------



## ScienceRocks

EdwardBaiamonte said:


> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> You last statement is a bald-faced lie, and you know it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you mean American soviet union schools turn out about the smartest kids in the civilized world?? Is that what you mean???????
Click to expand...


Name a system on this planet that beats the public system. Name one country with your way of doing this! You can't as you have nothing. Fucking piece of shit loser.


----------



## Unkotare

ScienceRocks said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> You last statement is a bald-faced lie, and you know it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you mean American soviet union schools turn out about the smartest kids in the civilized world?? Is that what you mean???????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name a system on this planet that beats the public system. ...
Click to expand...



The private system?


----------



## EdwardBaiamonte

ScienceRocks said:


> EdwardBaiamonte said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Admiral Rockwell Tory said:
> 
> 
> 
> You last statement is a bald-faced lie, and you know it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you mean American soviet union schools turn out about the smartest kids in the civilized world?? Is that what you mean???????
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Name a system on this planet that beats the public system. Name one country with your way of doing this! You can't as you have nothing. Fucking piece of shit loser.
Click to expand...


since our libcommie union system turns out about the dumbest kids in the civilized world need to change it if we care for our kids.


----------



## American_Jihad

*High School Forced to Delete Patriotic Pic of Soldiers Resting After Hurricane Rescue*
*The world has gone crazy.*
9.1.2017 

News

Trey Sanchez 






Because the world is completely upside down, a Texas high school was forced to delete a picture it posted on social media praising the hard work of the National Guard for its rescue efforts for victims of Hurricane Harvey.

The picture of servicemen and women lining the empty school hallway taking a much-deserved rest was posted by the Katy High School football team’s Twitter account. It was widely shared across all social media platforms as well as throughout the mainstream media. The picture was captioned: “These are the real heroes.”

Not many details were given why the picture was so offensive to some other than the complaints centered on them sleeping on the floor, but the @Katyfootball account gave a multi-tweet explanation that they had more pressing matters to deal with than a bunch of trolls:

...

High School Forced to Delete Patriotic Pic of Soldiers Resting After Hurricane Rescue


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

American_Jihad said:


> *High School Forced to Delete Patriotic Pic of Soldiers Resting After Hurricane Rescue*
> *The world has gone crazy.*
> 9.1.2017
> 
> News
> 
> Trey Sanchez
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the world is completely upside down, a Texas high school was forced to delete a picture it posted on social media praising the hard work of the National Guard for its rescue efforts for victims of Hurricane Harvey.
> 
> The picture of servicemen and women lining the empty school hallway taking a much-deserved rest was posted by the Katy High School football team’s Twitter account. It was widely shared across all social media platforms as well as throughout the mainstream media. The picture was captioned: “These are the real heroes.”
> 
> Not many details were given why the picture was so offensive to some other than the complaints centered on them sleeping on the floor, but the @Katyfootball account gave a multi-tweet explanation that they had more pressing matters to deal with than a bunch of trolls:
> 
> ...
> 
> High School Forced to Delete Patriotic Pic of Soldiers Resting After Hurricane Rescue



There are a few facts wrong with your story and the headline.  I suggest you get someone to read it to you, and maybe you will understand.


----------



## regent

As to teacher unions, and quality education I remember some states did not allow teachers to unionize. Among them were S. Carolina, N. Carolina, 
Georgia,Texas and Virginia. Love to see their scores.


----------



## Admiral Rockwell Tory

regent said:


> As to teacher unions, and quality education I remember some states did not allow teachers to unionize. Among them were S. Carolina, N. Carolina,
> Georgia,Texas and Virginia. Love to see their scores.



Texas is overrun with illegals who do not speak English well, so their scores are in the tank just like California and other southwestern states.

Yet many people decide to blame the teachers.


----------



## Unkotare

Annika55 said:


> ..... Charter schools and most private schools do not offer very expensive services to special needs students or to ESL students.
> ....


Not true.


----------

