# On The Madness Of Modern Liberalism.



## RWNJ (Oct 22, 2017)

Like all other human beings, the modern liberal reveals his true character, including his madness, in what he values and devalues, in what he articulates with passion. Of special interest, however, are the many values about which the modern liberal mind is not passionate: his agenda does not insist that the individual is the ultimate economic, social and political unit; it does not idealize individual liberty and the structure of law and order essential to it; it does not defend the basic rights of property and contract; it does not aspire to ideals of authentic autonomy and mutuality; it does not preach an ethic of self-reliance and self-determination; it does not praise courage, forbearance or resilience; it does not celebrate the ethics of consent or the blessings of voluntary cooperation. It does not advocate moral rectitude or understand the critical role of morality in human relating. The liberal agenda does not comprehend an identity of competence, appreciate its importance, or analyze the developmental conditions and social institutions that promote its achievement. The liberal agenda does not understand or recognize personal sovereignty or impose strict limits on coercion by the state. It does not celebrate the genuine altruism of private charity. It does not learn history's lessons on the evils of collectivism.

Read more... The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness, by Lyle Rossiter, Jr., MD


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 22, 2017)

You attack American civil and human rights and you dare attack liberalism?

You conservatives won't be happy until you have done away with civilization and human rights all together. You really believe that our problems will be fixed by assaulting people that you don't believe are moral or handing all the wealth to the top 5% of the population..And please, your war on drugs and police state is the most fascist fucking thing imaginable and you just look dumb debating about personal rights as you simply don't really believe in that.

If you believed in that you'd legalize pot, allow gays to marry, trans to charge their names and stop throwing more people then any other country on earth into cages.


----------



## EvilCat Breath (Oct 22, 2017)

That's a keeper.


----------



## RWNJ (Oct 22, 2017)

Tipsycatlover said:


> That's a keeper.


You bet. I'm going to order his book next payday.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 22, 2017)

The results of extreme individuality is seen in Central America or Somalia. Fails everytime and it fails as human nature is abusive and predatory towards its follow man when it thinks it can take advantage of others. That is why we have civil rights laws, that is why we have anti-trust laws and that is why it is a good idea to help the poor.Helping the poor also allows for higher quality of life for us all.

I am not for one second suggesting that one shouldn't be free as I believe the exact opposite, but we as a society should strive to find a nice middle ground. You can NOT say that you believe in this and believe in maintaining the most imprisoned nation on earth, telling gays they don't have human rights and kicking peoples doors down over a plant.

You'd be closer to being honest once you accept some of these things and accept that we must work together as a nation with the understanding that personal freedom is also important.


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 22, 2017)

Liberal crybabies and snowflakes have had their day for a while.

Time to give sane, self-reliant, honest, ethical, decent folk a turn at the wheel.

But, by all the evidence accumulated since January 20, 2017, that has not yet unfolded.


----------



## RWNJ (Oct 22, 2017)

Kondor3 said:


> Liberal crybabies and snowflakes have had their day for a while.
> 
> Time to give sane, self-reliant, honest, ethical, decent folk a turn at the wheel.
> 
> But, by all the evidence accumulated since January 20, 2017, that has not yet unfolded.


Unfortunately, positions of power will always attract those who will abuse them. That goes for both parties.

Politics: Noun.

From the Greek Polys, meaning many...and ticks, blood-sucking parasites. Enough said.


----------



## ScienceRocks (Oct 22, 2017)

Kondor3 said:


> Liberal crybabies and snowflakes have had their day for a while.
> 
> Time to give sane, self-reliant, honest, ethical, decent folk a turn at the wheel.
> 
> But, by all the evidence accumulated since January 20, 2017, that has not yet unfolded.



What is ethical? If you think people that wish to keep the war on drugs going and beat the shit out of gays is ethical..Well, lets just say we disagree.

I'll agree that with Trump in office that day certainly hasn't come.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 22, 2017)

RWNJ said:


> Like all other human beings, the modern liberal reveals his true character, including his madness, in what he values and devalues, in what he articulates with passion. Of special interest, however, are the many values about which the modern liberal mind is not passionate: his agenda does not insist that the individual is the ultimate economic, social and political unit; it does not idealize individual liberty and the structure of law and order essential to it; it does not defend the basic rights of property and contract; it does not aspire to ideals of authentic autonomy and mutuality; it does not preach an ethic of self-reliance and self-determination; it does not praise courage, forbearance or resilience; it does not celebrate the ethics of consent or the blessings of voluntary cooperation. It does not advocate moral rectitude or understand the critical role of morality in human relating. The liberal agenda does not comprehend an identity of competence, appreciate its importance, or analyze the developmental conditions and social institutions that promote its achievement. The liberal agenda does not understand or recognize personal sovereignty or impose strict limits on coercion by the state. It does not celebrate the genuine altruism of private charity. It does not learn history's lessons on the evils of collectivism.
> 
> Read more... The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness, by Lyle Rossiter, Jr., MD


Try to learn what paragraphs and run on sentences are


----------



## gipper (Oct 22, 2017)

ScienceRocks said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Liberal crybabies and snowflakes have had their day for a while.
> ...


No one is beating the shit out of gays, other than your buddies the Muslims.  Why the straw man?   And...both political parties LOVE the ineffective but lucrative war on drugs.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Oct 22, 2017)

ScienceRocks said:


> You attack American civil and human rights and you dare attack liberalism?
> 
> You conservatives won't be happy until you have done away with civilization and human rights all together. You really believe that our problems will be fixed by assaulting people that you don't believe are moral or handing all the wealth to the top 5% of the population..And please, your war on drugs and police state is the most fascist fucking thing imaginable and you just look dumb debating about personal rights as you simply don't really believe in that.
> 
> If you believed in that you'd legalize pot, allow gays to marry, trans to charge their names and stop throwing more people then any other country on earth into cages.



  It says all that sane people need to know about the moral and intellectual vacuousness of your position, that you only care about the _“civil rights”_ of drug abusers and sexual perverts.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 22, 2017)

ScienceRocks said:


> You attack American civil and human rights and you dare attack liberalism?
> 
> You conservatives won't be happy until you have done away with civilization and human rights all together.



Actually, the way to keep civilization and human rights is to politically do away with you people.


----------



## Pogo (Oct 22, 2017)

RWNJ said:


> Like all other human beings, the modern liberal reveals his true character, including his madness, in what he values and devalues, in what he articulates with passion. Of special interest, however, are the many values about which the modern liberal mind is not passionate: his agenda does not insist that the individual is the ultimate economic, social and political unit; it does not idealize individual liberty and the structure of law and order essential to it; it does not defend the basic rights of property and contract; it does not aspire to ideals of authentic autonomy and mutuality; it does not preach an ethic of self-reliance and self-determination; it does not praise courage, forbearance or resilience; it does not celebrate the ethics of consent or the blessings of voluntary cooperation. It does not advocate moral rectitude or understand the critical role of morality in human relating. The liberal agenda does not comprehend an identity of competence, appreciate its importance, or analyze the developmental conditions and social institutions that promote its achievement. The liberal agenda does not understand or recognize personal sovereignty or impose strict limits on coercion by the state. It does not celebrate the genuine altruism of private charity. It does not learn history's lessons on the evils of collectivism.
> 
> Read more... The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness, by Lyle Rossiter, Jr., MD



Wonderful list of "nots".  Zzzzzzzz.

Now here's the news.
There is no "modern" Liberalism.  Liberalism is Liberalism is Liberalism, PERIOD.  Y'all lexicographical thieves trying to make a term into its own opposite are masturbating in Doublethik, nothing more.

Now clean yourself up.


----------



## Frankeneinstein (Oct 22, 2017)

ScienceRocks said:


> The results of extreme individuality is seen in Central America or Somalia. Fails everytime and it fails as human nature is abusive and predatory towards its follow man when it thinks it can take advantage of others. That is why we have civil rights laws, that is why we have anti-trust laws and that is why it is a good idea to help the poor.Helping the poor also allows for higher quality of life for us all.
> 
> I am not for one second suggesting that one shouldn't be free as I believe the exact opposite, but we as a society should strive to find a nice middle ground. You can NOT say that you believe in this and believe in maintaining the most imprisoned nation on earth, telling gays they don't have human rights and kicking peoples doors down over a plant.
> 
> You'd be closer to being honest once you accept some of these things and accept that we must work together as a nation with the understanding that personal freedom is also important.


This post, not matter how well intended, is exactly why liberals are so misguided, if we allow it to stand as is without dissection liberals can keep pretending they really believe the above to be something they stand for, then once we point out it flaws and contradictions they will make the opposite claim they do not really believe that, so lets take the post as it is worded exactly.



> The results of extreme individuality is seen in Central America or Somalia. Fails everytime and it fails as human nature is abusive and predatory towards its follow man when it thinks it can take advantage of others. That is why we have civil rights laws, that is why we have anti-trust laws and that is why it is a good idea to help the poor.Helping the poor also allows for higher quality of life for us all.



The results of American individuality are best seen and exemplified in America, of course that casts both individuality and America in a positive light so S. America and Somalia are obviously what is called for when pretending why hillary would be a better president.

and if it is natural for humans to be abusive and take advantage of each other then what better way to do it than through the power of the state and under the guise of compassion? did it ever occur to you that that is what white liberals are doing? did it ever occur to you that human nature is natural...and yes helping the poor is not just a good idea, but a necessary one, but going after the money of others by using the poor or the climate to get there is what scam artists do.  





> I am not for one second suggesting that one shouldn't be free as I believe the exact opposite, but we as a society should strive to find a nice middle ground. You can NOT say that you believe in this and believe in maintaining the most imprisoned nation on earth, telling gays they don't have human rights and kicking peoples doors down over a plant.



ok, all true, but it is now the left that needs to prove this is not just another one of its scams, starting now and with you, instead using words like "trump" and "the right" you need to apply the above to "muslim" from now on to show that it is not just some left wing scam to bash the right, and your claim of kicking down doors over a plant does not go far enough in that you did not fault/chastise those who are stealing money from mostly poor folks in liberal areas by applying outrageous taxes over which plant [in this case tobacco] they choose to use, heck the left has made using these legal plants in public places a civil liability with legal consequences...before any move to the middle can even be discussed these laws and indecent siz taxes need to be abolished, I would be all for amnesty for all non-violent criminals in return for the tyrants who perpetrated that anti American crime.



> You'd be closer to being honest once you accept some of these things and accept that we must work together as a nation with the understanding that personal freedom is also important



you would be closer to being honest if you took my reply more seriously than your own, we already had finely tuned working individualist society that worked better than any known to man kind, then came the liberalism of the 60s and an explosion in violent crime that did not exist before then including gun crimes...lets see how honest you feel like being about that


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Oct 22, 2017)

Frankeneinstein said:


> This post, not matter how well intended, is exactly why liberals are so misguided, if we allow it to stand as is without dissection liberals can keep pretending they really believe the above to be something they stand for, then once we point out it flaws and contradictions they will make the opposite claim they do not really believe that, so lets [sic] take the post as it is worded exactly.



  Modern *LI*b*E*rals perfectly demonstrate Doublethink, as defined and described by George Orwell.  Point out the obvious contradictions and inconsistencies in their ideology, and they will sincerely fail to grasp them.

_To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself—that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word—doublethink—involved the use of doublethink._
_·
·
·_​_The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them… To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies—all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth._​


----------



## RWNJ (Oct 22, 2017)

Bob Blaylock said:


> Frankeneinstein said:
> 
> 
> > This post, not matter how well intended, is exactly why liberals are so misguided, if we allow it to stand as is without dissection liberals can keep pretending they really believe the above to be something they stand for, then once we point out it flaws and contradictions they will make the opposite claim they do not really believe that, so lets [sic] take the post as it is worded exactly.
> ...


It is no wonder they act this way. They serve the father of lies, Satan... Who is also the author of confusion.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 23, 2017)

Pogo said:


> RWNJ said:
> 
> 
> > Like all other human beings, the modern liberal reveals his true character, including his madness, in what he values and devalues, in what he articulates with passion. Of special interest, however, are the many values about which the modern liberal mind is not passionate: his agenda does not insist that the individual is the ultimate economic, social and political unit; it does not idealize individual liberty and the structure of law and order essential to it; it does not defend the basic rights of property and contract; it does not aspire to ideals of authentic autonomy and mutuality; it does not preach an ethic of self-reliance and self-determination; it does not praise courage, forbearance or resilience; it does not celebrate the ethics of consent or the blessings of voluntary cooperation. It does not advocate moral rectitude or understand the critical role of morality in human relating. The liberal agenda does not comprehend an identity of competence, appreciate its importance, or analyze the developmental conditions and social institutions that promote its achievement. The liberal agenda does not understand or recognize personal sovereignty or impose strict limits on coercion by the state. It does not celebrate the genuine altruism of private charity. It does not learn history's lessons on the evils of collectivism.
> ...



Well put

Conservatives assign liberalism to a single set of ideas to be followed forever. Liberal thought evolves, it is what makes it liberal.


----------



## Bob Blaylock (Oct 23, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Conservatives assign liberalism to a single set of ideas to be followed forever. Liberal thought evolves, it is what makes it liberal.



_“Evolves”_ isn't really an apt term here.  *“Decays”* would be more appropriate.


----------



## K9Buck (Oct 23, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Try to learn what paragraphs and run on sentences are



That would be "run-on" sentences, genius.


----------



## K9Buck (Oct 23, 2017)

Liberalism transfers self-responsibility to a collective otherwise known as society, or one's neighbors.  Society is responsible for both one's plight and their redemption.  Liberals are all for rights, just not _your _rights.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 23, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > RWNJ said:
> ...



Classical liberalism revels in the value of the individual and and demands minimal government influence.

Modern "liberalism" assigns history and definitions to the trash can, and favors the collective under the direct control of an all-powerful central government.  That's why they are generally associated with totalitarianism and ignorance, and the despotic regimes of the 20th and 21st centuries.


----------



## norwegen (Oct 23, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > RWNJ said:
> ...


Ah, so there _is_ a modern liberalism.  You should inform your ancient liberal friend Nogo of that.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 23, 2017)

Bob Blaylock said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Conservatives assign liberalism to a single set of ideas to be followed forever. Liberal thought evolves, it is what makes it liberal.
> ...



Why would you say "*Decays*"?

Was abolition a decay?
How about women's rights?
How about child labor protections and worker rights?
How about Civil Rights?
How about environmental protections?


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 23, 2017)

norwegen said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



No...just liberalism in a modern time


----------



## TyroneSlothrop (Oct 23, 2017)

The Madness of Conservative s





*Reality is that the GOP has a VESTED Interest in having the Government fail*


----------



## norwegen (Oct 23, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> norwegen said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Oh, so now it _doesn't_ evolve.


----------



## norwegen (Oct 23, 2017)

Fixed and eternal are the natural law, reason, and experience.  What is fixed and eternal is conservatism.


----------



## Kondor3 (Oct 23, 2017)

ScienceRocks said:


> Kondor3 said:
> 
> 
> > Liberal crybabies and snowflakes have had their day for a while.
> ...


What is ethical?

Let's start, with the concept that disagreeing with Liberal positions does not constitute fascism; that's more a Liberal outcome than a Conservative one.



> ...I'll agree that with Trump in office that day certainly hasn't come.


A sliver of common ground.


----------



## rightwinger (Oct 23, 2017)

norwegen said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > norwegen said:
> ...



You don't understand what evolving means do you?


----------



## norwegen (Oct 23, 2017)

rightwinger said:


> norwegen said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...


Excellent defense.

I'll try to remember it.


----------



## Pogo (Oct 23, 2017)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Once again for the literarily allergic, "all-powerful central government" is directly anathema to Liberalism.  Those are polar opposites.  We like to play with "liberal" and "conservative" as if they're each other's opposite but that's really not accurate; the opposite of Liberalism is _Authoritarianism_.  That's exactly what Liberalism rose up to depose; at the time monarchy, aristocracy and clergy.  Authoritarians have evolved different forms than those over the ensuing decades but whatever they're called, Fürher, Il Duce, Dear Leader, they're still the opposite of Liberalism which declares that political power derives from the people themselves and definitively NOT from a hierarchical bigly power structure.

That's what Liberalism is, Virginia, that's what it always was, is now, and ever shall be, world without end amen, period, cue fat lady and fade to black.  Your ridiculous Doublethinkian attempt to divide it into two streams and call one "classical" and the other "modern", and have those streams running in opposite directions, is amusing but puerile.  You can't morph a term into its own opposite.  You can't say "it's sunny today" and intend it to mean "it's pouring rain".

So if you're trying to describe something that actually IS totalitarian, call it what it is and quit calling it by its opposite.  Do you say "dog kennel" when you mean "mattress"?  Neither do I.

This is the same definitional dead-end in which that pointless wandering blog linked in the OP engaged.  It doesn't work.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 23, 2017)

Pogo said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > rightwinger said:
> ...



Indeed.  Ergo, what you people are is not liberal.


----------



## Pogo (Oct 26, 2017)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



"You people" ?


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 26, 2017)

Pogo said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



There seems to be an echo in your head.


----------



## Pogo (Oct 26, 2017)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



And yet there doesn't seem to be an answer coming in.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 26, 2017)

Pogo said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



The answer has been posted several times, including to you personally, and I tire of repeating myself.


----------



## Pogo (Oct 26, 2017)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



That's actually impossible, since you only plopped the phrase four posts ago and never did repeat it.

Wisely so I might add.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta (Oct 26, 2017)

Pogo said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> > Pogo said:
> ...



Actually, I've been using the phrase regularly in reference to you people for just about twenty years now, including the two years I've been active here.


----------



## Pogo (Oct 26, 2017)

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> > Billy_Kinetta said:
> ...



And here we are again back at square one.
This must be what it's like to put a record on the turntable and then stare at the label spinning around, expecting it to do something different this time.

/thread


----------

