# Islamic militants suspected in Moscow bombings



## AllieBaba

"...suspicion has fallen on Muslim militants from the North Caucasus, where the Kremlin is fighting a growing Islamist insurgency spreading from Chechnya to neighbouring Dagestan and Ingushetia."

Female suicide bombers in Moscow kill more than 30 in attacks on tube trains | Mail Online


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## Mr.Fitnah

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2150272-post352.html
its the Jihad



Kalam said:


> PubliusInfinitum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see... in one breath, you assure us that your Muslim Bothers aren't plotting an Attack on America;
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I assured you that I wouldn't be put in a concentration camp on account of my religious beliefs. I don't know of any "plots" against America and wouldn't want anything to happen that resulted in innocent deaths, but I'll live free or die regardless of what others do to the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> PubliusInfinitum said:
> 
> 
> 
> and in the next you proudly produce Islamic propaganda which promises to attack the enemies of Islam... of which America is decidely one; if not THE most notorious of Islam's enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The unambiguous enemies of Islam are Russia and Israel. China is becoming a major contender, Switzerland seems eager to be attacked, and Sudan will earn a place if it continues oppressing black Muslims. America doesn't oppress its own Muslim population and will be out of the region within a few years. Plus, in spite of their disgusting carte blanche support for Zionist aggression, the United States has expressed concern over Russian oppression in the Caucasus. Delegitimizing the Caucasian jihad in the eyes of the West by attacking America would serve nobody but the Russian kuffar.
Click to expand...


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## Vast LWC

*If the story about the Christian Militia terrorists was moved to "Religion and Ethics", because it contained the word "Christian" in the header, then this one should be too.*


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## Xenophon

AllieBaba said:


> "...suspicion has fallen on Muslim militants from the North Caucasus, where the Kremlin is fighting a growing Islamist insurgency spreading from Chechnya to neighbouring Dagestan and Ingushetia."
> 
> Female suicide bombers in Moscow kill more than 30 in attacks on tube trains | Mail Online



When I heard it was Moscow, first thing I thought of was it was Chechens.


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## WillowTree

vast lwc said:


> *if the story about the christian militia terrorists was moved to "religion and ethics", because it contained the word "christian" in the header, then this one should be too.*



*if cow shit turns to butter you can turn in yer churn.. Meanwhile do you need a waaaambalance? *


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## Vast LWC

WillowTree said:


> vast lwc said:
> 
> 
> 
> *if the story about the christian militia terrorists was moved to "religion and ethics", because it contained the word "christian" in the header, then this one should be too.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *if cow shit turns to butter you can turn in yer churn.. Meanwhile do you need a waaaambalance? *
Click to expand...


Apparently some right-wing partisan shit like yourself has been made a moderator and decided to take a whole bunch of perfectly reasonable threads and re-file them under seldom-used headings.


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## WillowTree

Vast LWC said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vast lwc said:
> 
> 
> 
> *if the story about the christian militia terrorists was moved to "religion and ethics", because it contained the word "christian" in the header, then this one should be too.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *if cow shit turns to butter you can turn in yer churn.. Meanwhile do you need a waaaambalance? *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently some right-wing partisan shit like yourself has been made a moderator and decided to take a whole bunch of perfectly reasonable threads and re-file them under seldom-used headings.
Click to expand...


 yeah right, I'd like to see you prove that one.. Oh Gunny dear!


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## PubliusInfinitum

Mr.Fitnah said:


> http://www.usmessageboard.com/2150272-post352.html
> its the Jihad
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PubliusInfinitum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see... in one breath, you assure us that your Muslim Bothers aren't plotting an Attack on America;
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I assured you that I wouldn't be put in a concentration camp on account of my religious beliefs. I don't know of any "plots" against America and wouldn't want anything to happen that resulted in innocent deaths, but I'll live free or die regardless of what others do to the United States.
> 
> 
> 
> PubliusInfinitum said:
> 
> 
> 
> and in the next you proudly produce Islamic propaganda which promises to attack the enemies of Islam... of which America is decidely one; if not THE most notorious of Islam's enemies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The unambiguous enemies of Islam are Russia and Israel. China is becoming a major contender, Switzerland seems eager to be attacked, and Sudan will earn a place if it continues oppressing black Muslims. America doesn't oppress its own Muslim population and will be out of the region within a few years. Plus, in spite of their disgusting carte blanche support for Zionist aggression, the United States has expressed concern over Russian oppression in the Caucasus. Delegitimizing the Caucasian jihad in the eyes of the West by attacking America would serve nobody but the Russian kuffar.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 

Ya know, when I saw this thread, I thought of the exact same exchange.

A rather timely irony that our in-house defender of Islam calls it so close.

I believe that it was the post prior to or perhaps just after that one, that Haji-Kalam informed us that she could not speak to what her local Mosque was involved in with regard to supporting the Jihad.

Surely enough to provide for a insightful... "Hmmmmm..."


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## eagleseven

Kalam said:
			
		

> The unambiguous enemies of Islam are Russia and Israel. China is becoming a major contender, Switzerland seems eager to be attacked, and Sudan will earn a place if it continues oppressing black Muslims. America doesn't oppress its own Muslim population and will be out of the region within a few years. Plus, in spite of their disgusting carte blanche support for Zionist aggression, the United States has expressed concern over Russian oppression in the Caucasus. Delegitimizing the Caucasian jihad in the eyes of the West by attacking America would serve nobody but the Russian kuffar.


Take it from our resident Jihadi.


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## AllieBaba

Vast LWC said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vast lwc said:
> 
> 
> 
> *if the story about the christian militia terrorists was moved to "religion and ethics", because it contained the word "christian" in the header, then this one should be too.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *if cow shit turns to butter you can turn in yer churn.. Meanwhile do you need a waaaambalance? *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Apparently some right-wing partisan shit like yourself has been made a moderator and decided to take a whole bunch of perfectly reasonable threads and re-file them under seldom-used headings.
Click to expand...



Now this is a conspiracy theory I haven't seen in here before now...


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## WillowTree

AllieBaba said:


> Vast LWC said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *if cow shit turns to butter you can turn in yer churn.. Meanwhile do you need a waaaambalance? *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently some right-wing partisan shit like yourself has been made a moderator and decided to take a whole bunch of perfectly reasonable threads and re-file them under seldom-used headings.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Now this is a conspiracy theory I haven't seen in here before now...
Click to expand...


I'm thinking it would make for a damn exciting April FOOLS day.


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## Vast LWC

AllieBaba said:


> Now this is a conspiracy theory I haven't seen in here before now...



It's not a "conspiracy theory", it just happened.  It's not like I'm saying there are right-wing moderators doing this all the time, I'm just saying it happened in this instance.

I'm not a Glenn Beck type making a mountain out of a molehill, thank you very much.


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## Revere

Not crosshairs on a map. Not a bunch of guys in trailer parks in Michigan, Indiana and Ohio who dress up like soldiers and play with guns.  Not American citizens who are your political opponents and attend rallies to oppose your policies.

You idiots.

Props to Islamists everywhere who always manage to put terrorism into context and perspective.

Female suicide bombers in Moscow kill more than 30 in attacks on tube trains | Mail Online



> Hunt for 'Black Widow' terror gang after female suicide bombers kill at least 38 in bomb attacks on Moscow trains
> By Mail Foreign Service
> Last updated at 7:04 PM on 29th March 2010
> 
> 
> Comments (182)
> Add to My Stories
> 
> 
> 
> Two bombs, 40mins apart, detonated during morning rush hour
> At least 37 people dead, 65 injured
> No group claims responsibility so far. Rouble falls
> Police in Moscow were tonight searching for female accomplices of two women suicide bombers who killed at least 37 people and injured 65 by targeting two packed tube trains during the busy rush hour.
> 
> 
> Analysis of CCTV footage inside the Red Arrow underground trains of the two suicide bombers has revealed they were accompanied by two other women.
> 
> 
> Their faces were not destroyed in the explosion, increasing the chance of successfully identifying them, and video from other cameras in Moscow Metro stations has also helped identify the faces of the two women who accompanied them and a man.
> 
> 
> President Dmitry Medvedev declared Russia would act 'without compromise' to root out terrorists as he ordered airports to be put on alert and security to be stepped up throughout the country.
> 
> The two bombs are the worst attack on the Russian capital for six years and no group has yet claimed responsibility.
> 
> But suspicion has fallen on Muslim militants from the North Caucasus, where the Kremlin is fighting a growing Islamist insurgency spreading from Chechnya to neighbouring Dagestan and Ingushetia.


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## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> its the Jihad





PubliusInfinitum said:


> Ya know, when I saw this thread, I thought of the exact same exchange.
> 
> A rather timely irony that our in-house defender of Islam calls it so close.
> 
> I believe that it was the post prior to or perhaps just after that one, that Haji-Kalam informed us that she could not speak to what her local Mosque was involved in with regard to supporting the Jihad.
> 
> Surely enough to provide for a insightful... "Hmmmmm..."





eagleseven said:


> Take it from our resident Jihadi.


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## Kalam

As of now, Doka Umarov and the Caucasus Emirate have not claimed responsibility for the operation in Moscow. Rebel sources indicate, however, that this may have been a botched martyrdom operation targeting the central offices of the KGB and the Interior Ministry. A large number of the deaths occurred when subway passengers trampled each other as they ran towards the exits.


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## Kalam

It's unfortunate that the operation resulted in civilian deaths rather than inflicting casualties on KGB terrorists. Still, this is an example of chickens coming home to roost. 

"[Russian soldiers] first expelled, temporarily, hundreds of civilians from Alkhan-Yurt, and then began systematically looting and burning the village, killing anyone in their way... The killings went on for more than two weeks, without any apparent attempt by Russian authorities to stop it. Aindi Altimirov, the last to die, was killed and beheaded by Russian soldiers on December 18... The looting of Alkhan-Yurt was systematic and organized, involving a large number of soldiers who acted with impunity throughout their stay in the village. Looted goods were stored in the homes occupied by Russian commanders as well as the tents of soldiers, and were transported openly in military vehicles out of Alkhan-Yurt. It is simply impossible that such widespread looting could take place in broad daylight without the knowledge and, at a minimum, the tacit consent of Russian commanders. The looting that took place in Alkhan-Yurt was not an isolated incident of such misconduct by Russian forces in Chechnya: since the beginning of the Chechen conflict, Russian troops have been systematically looting villages and towns under their control, and there is no evidence that the Russian command has taken any steps to prevent it." - Human Rights Watch​
Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly
Russians 'mowed down fleeing civilian convoy' | World news | The Observer

We asked for independence and were willing to negotiate peacefully. Russia responded with guns, so that's precisely what we will use to secure freedom for the Caucasus.  

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4cRg_flERI]YouTube - Çeçenistan'in Aslanlari &#1571;&#1587;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1610;&#1588;&#1575;&#1606; Lions of Chechnya 3/6[/ame]


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## Mr.Fitnah

Muslims  always whine about being   killed and being  innocent when they decide to  carve up  a nation once they have settled a ghetto in it,
I have  no sympathy  for one of them.


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## WillowTree

Beck had a good program today.. 100 million people died in the 20th century.. because of communism. socialism is the stairstep between capitalism and communism..


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## WillowTree

progressives hate capitalism.


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## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Muslims  always whine about being   killed and being  innocent when they decide to  carve up  a nation once they have settled a ghetto in it,


Islam in the Caucasus predates the modern state of Russia by five hundred years. 



Mr.Fitnah said:


> I have  no sympathy  for one of them.


Of course not. Muslims, in your mind, deserve to die. This is the same belief espoused by the terrorists in the Russian military. Much to the dismay of people like you and Putin, we refuse to be oppressed and slaughtered.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyf-gL5OW1k]YouTube - chechen mudjahids[/ame]


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## Mr.Fitnah

Islam in America before Columbus 
Hisham Zoubeir, 14 February 1998
Before I begin this article, I would like to extend my thanks to the creators of the Internet. It was there that I found my research on the topic that follows, and it is to the people who wrote the various articles and references that credit for this article should go to. I merely put two and two together for the benefit of those reading this now.
The history surrounding the followers of our proud faith is one of two shades; the truth and the lie. The lies surrounding our history have been spread to every corner of the globe; that we were and are (?) barbarians, no better than animals. The truth is that although there were certain parts of history that do show that some of our followers were ruthless and brutal (such as the Ottoman Empire), this is not unlike every nation and country in the world. And we have a much more worthy things to focus on.

Before the West declared themselves the great scientists of the earth, before their own Renaissance, Muslims already were making discoveries in science that took the West hundreds of years to even begin to imagine. What a shame that people in Europe were being persecuted by the Church for their suppositions that the earth was round; they should have come to the Islamic world--- an Afghan Muslim had proved that in 793 C.E.!

However, the studying of the universe brought forth more questions, and more curiosity. The Muslims in West Africa were so intrigued by what was on the other side of the Great Sea, that they began their expeditions into the great unknown. Early reports of these travels are sketchy, but we can be sure that they crossed the Atlantic by 889 C.E.

That was 603 years before Columbus. And that is not counting the actual physical evidence in the United States today that dates back even further; however, we do know, as De Lacy O'Leary pointed out, that Muslims definitely had the scientific knowledge and skill to make journeys across the Atlantic ocean.

We were in the Americas, hundreds of years before Columbus, and of that we can be sure.

Islam in America before Columbus


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## AllieBaba

Well, I think Russia does pretty much slaughter your fellow Muslim Chechnyans, despite your refusal.


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## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Islam in America before Columbus


Hey, look! A non-sequitur!


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## Mr.Fitnah

Post 1


Kalam said:


> Islam in the Caucasus predates the modern state of Russia by five hundred years.



Post 2


Mr.Fitnah said:


> Islam in America before Columbus
> Hisham Zoubeir, 14 February 1998
> Before I begin this article, I would like to extend my thanks to the creators of the Internet. It was there that I found my research on the topic that follows, and it is to the people who wrote the various articles and references that credit for this article should go to. I merely put two and two together for the benefit of those reading this now.
> The history surrounding the followers of our proud faith is one of two shades; the truth and the lie. The lies surrounding our history have been spread to every corner of the globe; that we were and are (?) barbarians, no better than animals. The truth is that although there were certain parts of history that do show that some of our followers were ruthless and brutal (such as the Ottoman Empire), this is not unlike every nation and country in the world. And we have a much more worthy things to focus on.
> 
> Before the West declared themselves the great scientists of the earth, before their own Renaissance, Muslims already were making discoveries in science that took the West hundreds of years to even begin to imagine. What a shame that people in Europe were being persecuted by the Church for their suppositions that the earth was round; they should have come to the Islamic world--- an Afghan Muslim had proved that in 793 C.E.!
> 
> However, the studying of the universe brought forth more questions, and more curiosity. The Muslims in West Africa were so intrigued by what was on the other side of the Great Sea, that they began their expeditions into the great unknown. Early reports of these travels are sketchy, but we can be sure that they crossed the Atlantic by 889 C.E.
> 
> That was 603 years before Columbus. And that is not counting the actual physical evidence in the United States today that dates back even further; however, we do know, as De Lacy O'Leary pointed out, that Muslims definitely had the scientific knowledge and skill to make journeys across the Atlantic ocean.
> 
> We were in the Americas, hundreds of years before Columbus, and of that we can be sure.
> 
> Islam in America before Columbus


Post 3


Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Islam in America before Columbus
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, look! A non-sequitur!
Click to expand...


Wow.


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## Kalam

AllieBaba said:


> Well, I think Russia does pretty much slaughter your fellow Muslim Chechnyans, despite your refusal.


Russian terrorist operations in Chechnya were called off last year. Now, the tasks of expelling Kadyrov's puppet government and securing independence for the rest of the North Caucasus remain.


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## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Wow.



Indeed. Perhaps I can be of some assistance. 







Chechnya is located in Russia, the green country. Your article deals with America, the orange country.


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## Mr.Fitnah

The Muslims Discovered Australia

Sheikh Al-Hilali also claims that Afghan Muslims preceded Captain Cook in his discovery of Australia: [11] "Australia is an old-new continent. The Europeans issued a false birth certificate for it when the British seafarer Captain James Cook reached it. However, Australia already had the most ancient race of men on the face of the earth &#8211; the Aborigine people&#8230; They continue to live their primitive lives to this very day.
"But when you become acquainted with their traditions among their tribes, you find that they have customs such as circumcision, marriage ceremonies, respect for tribal elders, and burial of the dead &#8211; all customs that show that they were connected to ancient Islamic culture before the Europeans set foot in Australia.

MEMRI - Middle East Media Research Institute


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## kyzr

I think that a current event board should have at least one thread about a terrorist attack that killed 36 this morning.  I'll do a poll to see who thinks that this type of attack is possible/probable here in the US.


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## Kalam

Not quite. This time, Russia is the orange country. The country your article discusses, Australia, is green.






Let's see if this helps you:
Web Geography For Kids


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## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Perhaps I can be of some assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> Chechnya is located in Russia, the green country. Your article deals with America, the orange country.
Click to expand...


Think there is  anything to that Neil Armstrong being a muslim story?


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## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Perhaps I can be of some assistance.
> 
> 
> 
> Chechnya is located in Russia, the green country. Your article deals with America, the orange country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Think there is  anything to that Neil Armstrong being a muslim story?
Click to expand...


No, but now I've seen ample proof that kufr engenders lunacy.


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## Kalam

There are already two threads on this, Quick Draw McGraw.


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## Kalam

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/111371-islamic-militants-suspected-in-moscow-bombings.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/111354-wanna-bet-these-arent-christians.html


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## Mr.Fitnah

Lunacy ? thats what   you and your arrogant brethren perfect.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2154384-post17.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2154395-post18.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2154469-post24.html


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## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Lunacy ? thats what   you and your arrogant brethren perfect.
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/2154384-post17.html
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/2154395-post18.html
> http://www.usmessageboard.com/2154469-post24.html



Oh, I see. The verbal diarrhea you've been excreting all over this thread is your crazy little way of suggesting that my claim regarding Islam and the Caucasus is inaccurate. It's a generally accepted historical fact that the population of the Caucasus converted to Islam between the 16th and 19th centuries.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060915080123/http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~bsp/caucasus/articles/nichols_1995-chechen.pdf

This source mentions the 17th century instead, so I suppose I'll revise my statement and say that Islam in the Caucasus preceded the modern state of Russia by 400 years. Now, shouldn't you be busy condoning a genocide or something?


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## Mr.Fitnah

So muslims killed people there  before ,were not dealt with  properly , and now they are doing it again and whining about it. BFD.


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## Mr.Fitnah

On a side note you are slow. Real short bus slow.


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## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> So muslims killed people there  before ,


Please prove that Islam was spread in the Caucasus by "killing people."



Mr.Fitnah said:


> were not dealt with  properly,


You can go ahead and say killed. It's rather obvious that you'd like nothing more than to see Muslims slaughtered. 



Mr.Fitnah said:


> and now they are doing it again and whining about it. BFD.


I suppose your ignorance should come as no surprise. What you have to say does not interest me. Attempting to discuss something with a person who hates a certain group to such an extent that he blames them for absolutely everything is an exercise in futility.


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## WillowTree

we need a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambaaaaaaaaaallllllllllance.


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## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> On a side note you are slow. Real short bus slow.



The tragedy of the insane person who is blissfully unaware of his own ailment has always fascinated me.


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## Kalam

WillowTree said:


> we need a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambaaaaaaaaaallllllllllance.



Not to mention a dictionary.


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## Mr.Fitnah

Islam Question and Answer - Was Islam spread by the sword?
Was Islam spread by the sword?

Question:
Some enemies of the religion claim that Islam was spread by the sword. What is your response to that?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Islam was spread by proof and evidence, in the case of those who listened to the message and responded to it. And it was spread by strength and the sword in the case of those who stubbornly resisted, until they had no choice and had to submit to the new reality.

And Allaah is the source of strength. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions, and grant them peace.

Fataawaa al-Lajnah al-Daaimah, 12/14

*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX*
Islam spread by means of proof and evidence to Was Islam spread by the sword? 

Question:
Was Islam spread by the sword?. 

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah. 

We have already stated in question no. 34830 that jihad is of two types: taking the initiative in fighting and jihad in self-defence. 

Undoubtedly taking the initiative in fighting has a great effect in spreading Islam and bringing people into the religion of Allaah in crowds. Hence the hearts of the enemies of Islam are filled with fear of jihad. 

Snip

those who listened to the message and responded to it, and it spread by means of force and the sword to those who were stubborn and arrogant, until they were overwhelmed and became no longer stubborn, and submitted to that reality. 

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A 
Islam Question and Answer - Was Islam spread by the sword?


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## Kalam

I'm sorry; that does not prove that Islam was spread in the Caucasus by "killing people." That was simply a demonstration of your ability to fall back on irrelevancies when you're asked to substantiate your silly ramblings.


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## WillowTree

a reallly big waaaaaaaaaaaaabalannnnnnnnnnnnnnce


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## Kalam

WillowTree said:


> a reallly big waaaaaaaaaaaaabalannnnnnnnnnnnnnce



An elementary school-level dictionary.


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## Harry Dresden

Mr.Fitnah said:


> We were in the Americas, hundreds of years before Columbus, and of that we can be sure.



so were the Vikings....


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## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> I'm sorry; that does not prove that Islam was spread in the Caucasus by "killing people." That was simply a demonstration of your ability to fall back on irrelevancies when you're asked to substantiate your silly ramblings.



It serves my purpose .
Islam is spread by the sword .
Relax , this isn't news.


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## WillowTree

Kalam said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> a reallly big waaaaaaaaaaaaabalannnnnnnnnnnnnnce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An elementary school-level dictionary.
Click to expand...


waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambaaaaaaaaaaaaalance..


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## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> It serves my purpose .
> Islam is spread by the sword .
> Relax , this isn't news.



I'm sorry; that does not prove that Islam was spread in the Caucasus by "killing people." That was simply an attempt to draw attention away from your failure to provide specific evidence in support of the claim you made earlier. Please, continue to entertain me by failing to back up your assertions.


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## Kalam

WillowTree said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> a reallly big waaaaaaaaaaaaabalannnnnnnnnnnnnnce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An elementary school-level dictionary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambaaaaaaaaaaaaalance..
Click to expand...


diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiictionary.


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## WillowTree

Kalam said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> An elementary school-level dictionary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambaaaaaaaaaaaaalance..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiictionary.
Click to expand...


waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllance


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## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> It serves my purpose .
> Islam is spread by the sword .
> Relax , this isn't news.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry; that does not prove that Islam was spread in the Caucasus by "killing people." That was simply an attempt to draw attention away from your failure to provide specific evidence in support of the claim you made earlier. Please, continue to entertain me by failing to back up your assertions.
Click to expand...

You forget your place .
I dont answer your  questions.

Islam Question and Answer - Was Islam spread by the sword?
Was Islam spread by the sword?

Question:
Some enemies of the religion claim that Islam was spread by the sword. What is your response to that?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Islam was spread by proof and evidence, in the case of those who listened to the message and responded to it. And it was spread by strength and the sword in the case of those who stubbornly resisted, until they had no choice and had to submit to the new reality.

And Allaah is the source of strength. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions, and grant them peace.

Fataawaa al-Lajnah al-Daaimah, 12/14

*XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX*
Islam spread by means of proof and evidence to Was Islam spread by the sword? 

Question:
Was Islam spread by the sword?. 

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah. 

We have already stated in question no. 34830 that jihad is of two types: taking the initiative in fighting and jihad in self-defence. 

Undoubtedly taking the initiative in fighting has a great effect in spreading Islam and bringing people into the religion of Allaah in crowds. Hence the hearts of the enemies of Islam are filled with fear of jihad. 

Snip

those who listened to the message and responded to it, and it spread by means of force and the sword to those who were stubborn and arrogant, until they were overwhelmed and became no longer stubborn, and submitted to that reality. 

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A 
Islam Question and Answer - Was Islam spread by the sword?


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## Mr.Fitnah

OH MY

Chechnya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Early history
In classical times the northern slopes of the Caucasus mountains were inhabited by the Circassians on the west and the Avars on the east. In between them, the Zygians occupied Zyx[citation needed], the areas of north Ossetia, the Balkar, the Ingush and the Chechen republics today. Chechnya is a region in the Northern Caucasus which has been in almost constant battle against foreign rule since the 15th century. Eventually the Chechens converted to Islam and tensions began to die down with the Turks; however conflicts with their Christian neighbours, the Georgians and the Cossacks, as well as with their Buddhist Kalmyks neighbours intensified. The Russian Terek Cossack Host was secretly established in Chechnya in 1577 by free Cossacks resettled from the Volga to the Terek River.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

SOMETHINGS NEVER CHANGE

Hate crimes force Jews out of Malmo

Anti-Semitic threats come from Muslim communitySOME THINGS NEVER CHANGE

MALMO, Sweden

Marcus Eilenberg is a Swedish Jew whose family roots in Malmo run deep. His paternal grandparents were Holocaust survivors who found shelter in this southern Swedish city in 1945. His wife's parents fled to Sweden from communist Poland in the 1960s.

Now the 32-year-old law firm associate feels the welcome for Jews is running out, and he is moving to Israel with his wife and two children in May. He says he knows at least 15 other Jews who are leaving for a similar reason.

That reason, he says, is a rise in hate crimes against Jews in Malmo, and a sense that local authorities have little desire to deal with a problem that has exposed a crack in Sweden's image as a bastion of tolerance and a haven for distressed ethnic groups.

Anti-Semitic crimes in Europe have usually been associated with the far right, but Shneur Kesselman, an Orthodox rabbi, says the threat now comes from Muslims.

"In the past five years I've been here, I think you can count on your hand how many incidents there have been from the extreme right," he said. "In my personal experience, it's 99 percent Muslims."

Hate crimes force Jews out of Malmo - Washington Times


----------



## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> You forget your place .
> I dont answer your  questions.



I'll let you wallow in your delusions, then. The one about "owning" me or whatever is particularly amusing.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Thanks Gizmo,  you are a fun toy.


----------



## PixieStix

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Muslims  always whine about being   killed and being  innocent when they decide to  carve up  a nation once they have settled a ghetto in it,
> I have  no sympathy  for one of them.



Me neither


----------



## ekrem

Kalam said:


> (...)
> Much to the dismay of people like you and Putin, we refuse to be oppressed and slaughtered.
> (...)



What is your nationality / ethnicity if I may ask?
You do not have to answer, just if you want.


----------



## Kalam

ekrem said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> (...)
> Much to the dismay of people like you and Putin, we refuse to be oppressed and slaughtered.
> (...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is your nationality / ethnicity if I may ask?
> You do not have to answer, just if you want.
Click to expand...


I live in the United States. I'm of Eastern and Southern European heritage, among other things.


----------



## Kalam

PixieStix said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims  always whine about being   killed and being  innocent when they decide to  carve up  a nation once they have settled a ghetto in it,
> I have  no sympathy  for one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither
Click to expand...

Of course not. The lives of Muslims are worthless, right?


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims  always whine about being   killed and being  innocent when they decide to  carve up  a nation once they have settled a ghetto in it,
> I have  no sympathy  for one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course not. The lives of Muslims are worthless, right?
Click to expand...

They are wasted.


----------



## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Me neither
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not. The lives of Muslims are worthless, right?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They are wasted.
Click to expand...


I'm well aware that you love nothing more than hearing about Muslims being wasted.


----------



## ekrem

Kalam said:


> I live in the United States. I'm of Eastern and Southern European heritage, among other things.



Where does Eastern Europe end for you geograpically? Before or within Russia..


----------



## Si modo

Terrorists and those who make excuses for them are not human.


----------



## Kalam

ekrem said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> I live in the United States. I'm of Eastern and Southern European heritage, among other things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where does Eastern Europe end for you geograpically? Before or within Russia..
Click to expand...


Within, but I'm not Chechen or Ingush or any kind of Caucasian, if you're wondering. I'm also not Russian. I support independence for the Caucasus out of a sense of human sympathy and Islamic unity; my connection is not ethnic.


----------



## Kalam

Si modo said:


> Terrorists and those who make excuses for them are not human.



That's precisely why I support the overthrow of Russian rule in the region. If firing purposely on refugee caravans isn't terrorism, what is? What about issuing an ultimatum to civilians, making it clear that they would be considered "bandits" and slaughtered if they didn't leave their homes to the mercy of Russian looters? How about assassinating or kidnapping every caller for peace or advocate of human rights in the region? Russia chose this war.


----------



## Si modo

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists and those who make excuses for them are not human.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's precisely why I support the overthrow of Russian rule in the region. If firing purposely on refugee caravans isn't terrorism, what is? What about issuing an ultimatum to civilians, making it clear that they would be considered "bandits" and slaughtered if they didn't leave their homes to the mercy of Russian looters? How about assassinating or kidnapping every caller for peace or advocate of human rights in the region? Russia chose this war.
Click to expand...

Your agree that terrorists and those who make excuses for them are less than human, and you support and excuse terrorists.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not. The lives of Muslims are worthless, right?
> 
> 
> 
> They are wasted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm well aware that you love nothing more than hearing about Muslims being wasted.
Click to expand...

No I think it is sad that  every muslims life  is wasted.
I do  what I can, but  once  you believe the absurdities of Mohammad you  have a tenancy to become irrational and very hard to reach, everything is about defending   Mohammad rather than  examining  his ideology and  atrocities are justified .
Its very sad.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists and those who make excuses for them are not human.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's precisely why I support the overthrow of Russian rule in the region. If firing purposely on refugee caravans isn't terrorism, what is? What about issuing an ultimatum to civilians, making it clear that they would be considered "bandits" and slaughtered if they didn't leave their homes to the mercy of Russian looters? How about assassinating or kidnapping every caller for peace or advocate of human rights in the region? Russia chose this war.
Click to expand...


Shit  they sound  like muslims Circa 623 AD


----------



## Si modo

We all know why they didn't go after KGB.  KGB would kick their ass.  Commuters (and school children) can't.

Fucking cowards.


----------



## Kalam

Si modo said:


> Your agree that terrorists and those who make excuses for them are less than human, and you support and excuse terrorists.


I don't support operations that target civilians, nor do the leaders of the mujahideen. The righteous destruction of the Russian and Loyalist troops who terrorize civilians and destroy villages cannot be considered "terrorism." The advocates of terrorism are those who support Russia.


----------



## Si modo

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your agree that terrorists and those who make excuses for them are less than human, and you support and excuse terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't support operations that target civilians, nor do the leaders of the mujahideen. The righteous destruction of the Russian and Loyalist troops who terrorize civilians and destroy villages cannot be considered "terrorism." The advocates of terrorism are those who support Russia.
Click to expand...

You support cowards who go after commuters and school shildren rather than their target because their target is strong.

I don't support cowards.  You do.


----------



## Kalam

Si modo said:


> We all know why they didn't go after KGB.  KGB would kick their ass.  Commuters (and school children) can't.
> 
> Fucking cowards.





KGB terrorists are nothing. The mujahideen regularly engaged and killed Russian Spetsnaz before the Russians were forced to withdraw. Your faux outrage here is a predictable expression of your general disdain for Muslims; the Russians are the ones who slaughter children.


----------



## Si modo

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We all know why they didn't go after KGB.  KGB would kick their ass.  Commuters (and school children) can't.
> 
> Fucking cowards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KGB terrorists are nothing. The mujahideen regularly engaged and killed Russian Spetsnaz before the Russians were forced to withdraw. Your faux outrage here is a predictable expression of your general disdain for Muslims; the Russians are the ones who slaughter children.
Click to expand...

Really?  Beslan.

More of your Muslim bullshit.


----------



## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are wasted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm well aware that you love nothing more than hearing about Muslims being wasted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No I think it is sad that  every muslims life  is wasted.
> I do  what I can, but  once  you believe the absurdities of Mohammad you  have a tenancy to become irrational and very hard to reach, everything is about defending   Mohammad rather than  examining  his ideology and  atrocities are justified .
> Its very sad.
Click to expand...


I didn't have the good fortune of being born into a faithful family. Studying my religion is something I had to do largely on my own, and I would not have committed myself to it if I had any doubt about the righteousness of Islam and the messenger of God (SAWS). You would find your life far more enjoyable if you chose to focus on something positive rather than single-mindedly devoting yourself to slandering the religion of truth.


----------



## Kalam

Si modo said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> We all know why they didn't go after KGB.  KGB would kick their ass.  Commuters (and school children) can't.
> 
> Fucking cowards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KGB terrorists are nothing. The mujahideen regularly engaged and killed Russian Spetsnaz before the Russians were forced to withdraw. Your faux outrage here is a predictable expression of your general disdain for Muslims; the Russians are the ones who slaughter children.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really?  Beslan.
> 
> More of your Muslim bullshit.
Click to expand...

Beslan? Elistanzhy. Grozny. Novy Sharoy. Katyr-Yurt. Shali. Grozny again. Alkhan-Yurt. Novye Aldi. The list goes on and on, but none of this is of concern to you because the children slaughtered there didn't practice a religion that you like. 

_No, in the eyes of the resistance such operations have no legitimacy. We ourselves were horrified by what they did in Beslan. Because we know the concrete facts of what our people hoped for, how it all began._ - Doka Umarov.​


----------



## ekrem

Mr.Fitnah said:


> No I think it is sad that  every muslims life  is wasted.
> I do  what I can, but  once  you believe the absurdities of Mohammad you  have a tenancy to become irrational and very hard to reach, everything is about defending   Mohammad rather than  examining  his ideology and  atrocities are justified .
> Its very sad.



A good subject to understand the hopeless nature in Chechnya where Religion extremism can advance, are the books of Anna Politkovskaya, the Russian female Journalist, who was shot and provoked international outcry.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/dp/1860468977/]Amazon.com: The Dirty War (9781860468971): Anna Politkovskaya, Thomas de Waal: Books[/ame]

Anna Politkovskaya: A Small Corner of Hell

You remember those Pollonium poisoning stories on airflights?
The Russian exilant that died by the Pollonium poisoning was the one who accused the Russian State of murdering Politkovskaya and 
was writing a book on Russian concentration camps in Chechnya:
Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Assassination of Anna Politkovskaya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Xenophon

Muscovy dates back to 1238, and predates the forced conversion of Chenchens.

In fact, the Muscovy state fought for centuries to free itself from Islamic invaders called the Golden Hoard.

So you can then say that Russians killing Muslims now is blow back for all those invasions and forced conversions, using the logic of Bin ladn and other Jihadi types.


----------



## ekrem

Yuschchenko, leader of Velvet Revolution in Ukraine:
Don't f* with the Russians. 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_poisoning


----------



## Kalam

Xenophon said:


> Muscovy dates back to 1238, and predates the forced conversion of Chenchens.


There was no forced conversion of the Chechens, so I suppose you're right about that. Never mind that the territorial boundaries of the Grand Duchy of Moscow never came close to the Caucasus. Islam in the Caucasus predates any Russian incursion into the region.



Xenophon said:


> In fact, the Muscovy state fought for centuries to free itself from Islamic invaders called the Golden Hoard.


By the time the Mongols had adopted Islam, Ivan I was cooperating with them. 



Xenophon said:


> So you can then say that Russians killing Muslims now is blow back for all those invasions and forced conversions, using the logic of Bin ladn and other Jihadi types.


That might make a lick of sense if the Mongols were Muslims when they pillaged Moscow.


----------



## Xenophon

Kalam said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muscovy dates back to 1238, and predates the forced conversion of Chenchens.
> 
> 
> 
> There was no forced conversion of the Chechens, so I suppose you're right about that. Never mind that the territorial boundaries of the Grand Duchy of Moscow never came close to the Caucasus. Islam in the Caucasus predates any Russian incursion into the region.
> 
> 
> 
> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, the Muscovy state fought for centuries to free itself from Islamic invaders called the Golden Hoard.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By the time the Mongols had adopted Islam, Ivan I was cooperating with them.
> 
> 
> 
> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you can then say that Russians killing Muslims now is blow back for all those invasions and forced conversions, using the logic of Bin ladn and other Jihadi types.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That might make a lick of sense if the Mongols were Muslims when they pillaged Moscow.
Click to expand...

Kinda sucks eh?

Your violent delussions coming back to haunt you, and all those angry people who left you medieval motherfuckers behind now rule the roost.

Its nice that the best you can do is con the simple minded to blow themselves up, has a nice darwinian touch to it.

Don't feel to bad about being obsolete, here, let me make it up to you, have a snack, on me:


----------



## ekrem

Xenophon said:


> (..)
> So you can then say that Russians killing Muslims now is blow back for all those invasions and forced conversions, using the logic of Bin ladn and other Jihadi types.



The Russians do not necessarily kill on religious objectives. 
They killed their own people in Gulags and also have no problems in killing Orthodox brethren like in Georgia.
It kills mainly on power-preserving and -expanding objectives.


----------



## Xenophon

ekrem said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> (..)
> So you can then say that Russians killing Muslims now is blow back for all those invasions and forced conversions, using the logic of Bin ladn and other Jihadi types.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Russians do not necessarily kill on religious objectives.
> They killed their own people in Gulags and also have no problems in killing Orthodox brethren like in Georgia.
> It kills mainly on power-preserving and -expanding objectives.
Click to expand...

They learned their lessons well from their Muslim neighbors, didn't they.


----------



## Kalam

Xenophon said:


> Kinda sucks eh?
> 
> Your violent delussions coming back to haunt you, and all those angry people who left you medieval motherfuckers behind now rule the roost.


Engrish?



Xenophon said:


> Its nice that the best you can do is con the simple minded to blow themselves up, has a nice darwinian touch to it.


Somebody isn't familiar with the struggle for independence in the Caucasus. What's it like to hate Muslims so much that you automatically assume the worst about us in every situation? What did we do to you?


----------



## Munin

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have  no sympathy  for one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not. Muslims, in your mind, deserve to die. This is the same belief espoused by the terrorists in the Russian military. Much to the dismay of people like you and Putin, we refuse to be oppressed and slaughtered.
Click to expand...


And how are you better than him? In your arrogance you call anyone who has a different religion a "kuffar" (or do you only use that name for Russian non-believers, as I find it insulting if you used it on me), then you claim muslims to be the rightful owner of foreign lands in the name of a foreign religion "Islam" (just because 500 years ago muslims occupied some land there, with that reasoning European Christians would have the right to occupy all their foreign colonies).

Btw: Do you also believe in this part of your religion?


> Most Islamic scholars agree that the appropriate punishment for apostasy is beheading


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam . It is a good example of how "Islam" is stuck in ancient religious wars


----------



## Kalam

Munin said:


> And how are you better than him?


I always feel grief over civilian casualties, regardless of whether or not I like their religion. That is the difference between me and those posters here who love to see Muslims suffer. 



Munin said:


> In your arrogance you call anyone who has a different religion a kuffar, then you claim muslims to be the rightful owner of foreign lands in the name of a foreign religion "Islam" (just because 500 years ago muslims occupied some land there)


What foreign land? The North Caucasus is Islamic.



Munin said:


> and seem to support the struggle against innocent civilians.


I do? That's news to me.


----------



## Munin

Kalam said:


> Munin said:
> 
> 
> 
> And how are you better than him?
> 
> 
> 
> I always feel grief over civilian casualties, regardless of whether or not I like their religion. That is the difference between me and those posters here who love to see Muslims suffer.
Click to expand...


Than you despise the current war waged by "barbarian" jihadis in Israel (shooting rockets at civilians) and most of the Arabic world jihadis (killing other muslim civilians or foreign civilians)?



Kalam said:


> Munin said:
> 
> 
> 
> In your arrogance you call anyone who has a different religion a kuffar, then you claim muslims to be the rightful owner of foreign lands in the name of a foreign religion "Islam" (just because 500 years ago muslims occupied some land there)
> 
> 
> 
> What foreign land? The North Caucasus is Islamic.
Click to expand...


Land does not belong to a religion, it belongs to people/governments: you would do well to remember that. And if you believe it belongs to a religion, remember that christianity predates Islam (the prophet Mohammed even married a christian woman)

Georgia: 


> The Georgian Apostolic Autocephalous Orthodox Church is one of the world's most ancient Christian Churches, founded in the 1st century by the Apostle Andrew the First Called. In the first half of the 4th century Christianity  was adopted as the state religion. This has provided a strong sense of national identity that has helped to preserve a national Georgian identity despite repeated periods of foreign occupation and attempted assimilation.
> 
> According to the Constitution of Georgia, religious institutions are separate from government and every citizen has the right of religion. However, most of the population of Georgia (82%) practices Orthodox Christianity and the Georgian Orthodox Church is an influential institution in the country.
> 
> The Gospel was preached in Georgia by the Apostles, Andrew, Simon the Canaanite, and Matthias. Iberia was officially converted to Christianity in 326[117]  by Saint Nino of Cappadocia, who is considered to be the Enlightener of Georgia and the Equal to Apostles by the Orthodox Church. The Georgian Orthodox Church, once being under the See of Antioch, gained an autocephalous  status in the 4th century during the reign of King Vakhtang Gorgasali.[117]
> 
> Religious minorities of Georgia include Russian Orthodox (2%), Armenian Christians (3.9%), Muslims (9.9%), Roman Catholics (0.8%), as well as sizeable Jewish Communities and various Protestant minorities.[85]


 Georgia (country) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Kalam said:


> Munin said:
> 
> 
> 
> and seem to support the struggle against innocent civilians.
> 
> 
> 
> I do? That's news to me.
Click to expand...

My mistake, I misred one of your posts


----------



## Si modo

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KGB terrorists are nothing. The mujahideen regularly engaged and killed Russian Spetsnaz before the Russians were forced to withdraw. Your faux outrage here is a predictable expression of your general disdain for Muslims; the Russians are the ones who slaughter children.
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  Beslan.
> 
> More of your Muslim bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Beslan? Elistanzhy. Grozny. Novy Sharoy. Katyr-Yurt. Shali. Grozny again. Alkhan-Yurt. Novye Aldi. The list goes on and on, but none of this is of concern to you because the children slaughtered there didn't practice a religion that you like.
> 
> _No, in the eyes of the resistance such operations have no legitimacy. We ourselves were horrified by what they did in Beslan. Because we know the concrete facts of what our people hoped for, how it all began._ - Doka Umarov.​
Click to expand...

Religion, although relevant to you in your excusing the slaughter of children, is irrelevant to me. Your heroes slaughtered children at Beslan and are cowards.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm well aware that you love nothing more than hearing about Muslims being wasted.
> 
> 
> 
> No I think it is sad that  every muslims life  is wasted.
> I do  what I can, but  once  you believe the absurdities of Mohammad you  have a tenancy to become irrational and very hard to reach, everything is about defending   Mohammad rather than  examining  his ideology and  atrocities are justified .
> Its very sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't have the good fortune of being born into a faithful family. Studying my religion is something I had to do largely on my own, and I would not have committed myself to it if I had any doubt about the righteousness of Islam and the messenger of God (SAWS). You would find your life far more enjoyable if you chose to focus on something positive rather than single-mindedly devoting yourself to slandering the religion of truth.
Click to expand...




Doubt is the beginning, not the end of wisdom.
Doubt is the key to knowledge.


----------



## California Girl

Kalam said:


> It's unfortunate that the operation resulted in civilian deaths rather than inflicting casualties on KGB terrorists. Still, this is an example of chickens coming home to roost.
> 
> "[Russian soldiers] first expelled, temporarily, hundreds of civilians from Alkhan-Yurt, and then began systematically looting and burning the village, killing anyone in their way... The killings went on for more than two weeks, without any apparent attempt by Russian authorities to stop it. Aindi Altimirov, the last to die, was killed and beheaded by Russian soldiers on December 18... The looting of Alkhan-Yurt was systematic and organized, involving a large number of soldiers who acted with impunity throughout their stay in the village. Looted goods were stored in the homes occupied by Russian commanders as well as the tents of soldiers, and were transported openly in military vehicles out of Alkhan-Yurt. It is simply impossible that such widespread looting could take place in broad daylight without the knowledge and, at a minimum, the tacit consent of Russian commanders. The looting that took place in Alkhan-Yurt was not an isolated incident of such misconduct by Russian forces in Chechnya: since the beginning of the Chechen conflict, Russian troops have been systematically looting villages and towns under their control, and there is no evidence that the Russian command has taken any steps to prevent it." - Human Rights Watch​
> Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly
> Russians 'mowed down fleeing civilian convoy' | World news | The Observer
> 
> We asked for independence and were willing to negotiate peacefully. Russia responded with guns, so that's precisely what we will use to secure freedom for the Caucasus.
> 
> YouTube - Çeçenistan'in Aslanlari &#1571;&#1587;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1610;&#1588;&#1575;&#1606; Lions of Chechnya 3/6



It's "unfortunate"? Unfortunate? Are you stupid? They bombed a commuter train. Exactly who were they targeting because you make it sound like the civilians died by some accident. It was not an accident.... they targeted innocent people. 

And, for the record.... I find your attitude abhorrent. You are the reason why people 'hate' Muslims.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Somethings  never change

Azerbaijan Says Thwarts Plot to Attack School
By REUTERS
Filed at 2:08 p.m. ET

BAKU (Reuters) - Azerbaijan said on Monday it had detained eight people including a Chechen man on suspicion of planning "terrorist acts" against a school and kindergarten in the capital of the oil-producing Caucasus state.

Secular authorities in mainly Muslim Azerbaijan, a tightly controlled former Soviet republic, are concerned over what they say is the rising influence of radical Islam and the threat posed to the country's oil-fuelled economic growth.

Some analysts warn of potential spillover from an insurgency in neighbouring Russia's mainly Muslim south blah blah blah

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010...azerbaijan-arrests.html?_r=2&pagewanted=print


----------



## CurveLight

AllieBaba said:


> "...suspicion has fallen on Muslim militants from the North Caucasus, where the Kremlin is fighting a growing Islamist insurgency spreading from Chechnya to neighbouring Dagestan and Ingushetia."
> 
> Female suicide bombers in Moscow kill more than 30 in attacks on tube trains | Mail Online



Nice to see you rise above exploiting a bunch of dead people to focus on Islam.  Bravado!


----------



## CurveLight

California Girl said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's unfortunate that the operation resulted in civilian deaths rather than inflicting casualties on KGB terrorists. Still, this is an example of chickens coming home to roost.
> 
> "[Russian soldiers] first expelled, temporarily, hundreds of civilians from Alkhan-Yurt, and then began systematically looting and burning the village, killing anyone in their way... The killings went on for more than two weeks, without any apparent attempt by Russian authorities to stop it. Aindi Altimirov, the last to die, was killed and beheaded by Russian soldiers on December 18... The looting of Alkhan-Yurt was systematic and organized, involving a large number of soldiers who acted with impunity throughout their stay in the village. Looted goods were stored in the homes occupied by Russian commanders as well as the tents of soldiers, and were transported openly in military vehicles out of Alkhan-Yurt. It is simply impossible that such widespread looting could take place in broad daylight without the knowledge and, at a minimum, the tacit consent of Russian commanders. The looting that took place in Alkhan-Yurt was not an isolated incident of such misconduct by Russian forces in Chechnya: since the beginning of the Chechen conflict, Russian troops have been systematically looting villages and towns under their control, and there is no evidence that the Russian command has taken any steps to prevent it." - Human Rights Watch​
> Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly
> Russians 'mowed down fleeing civilian convoy' | World news | The Observer
> 
> We asked for independence and were willing to negotiate peacefully. Russia responded with guns, so that's precisely what we will use to secure freedom for the Caucasus.
> 
> YouTube - Çeçenistan'in Aslanlari &#1571;&#1587;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1610;&#1588;&#1575;&#1606; Lions of Chechnya 3/6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's "unfortunate"? Unfortunate? Are you stupid? They bombed a commuter train. Exactly who were they targeting because you make it sound like the civilians died by some accident. It was not an accident.... they targeted innocent people.
> 
> And, for the record.... I find your attitude abhorrent. You are the reason why people 'hate' Muslims.
Click to expand...



The only "attitude" you approve is one of active ignorance adored by skanks like yourself.  The point is this attack was not unprovoked and the islamophobia here is so bad nobody even acknowledges the atrocities committed by russia against the chechens.  When rich people fight they are called soldiers but when poor people fight back they are called terrorists.


----------



## Si modo

CurveLight said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's unfortunate that the operation resulted in civilian deaths rather than inflicting casualties on KGB terrorists. Still, this is an example of chickens coming home to roost.
> 
> "[Russian soldiers] first expelled, temporarily, hundreds of civilians from Alkhan-Yurt, and then began systematically looting and burning the village, killing anyone in their way... The killings went on for more than two weeks, without any apparent attempt by Russian authorities to stop it. Aindi Altimirov, the last to die, was killed and beheaded by Russian soldiers on December 18... The looting of Alkhan-Yurt was systematic and organized, involving a large number of soldiers who acted with impunity throughout their stay in the village. Looted goods were stored in the homes occupied by Russian commanders as well as the tents of soldiers, and were transported openly in military vehicles out of Alkhan-Yurt. It is simply impossible that such widespread looting could take place in broad daylight without the knowledge and, at a minimum, the tacit consent of Russian commanders. The looting that took place in Alkhan-Yurt was not an isolated incident of such misconduct by Russian forces in Chechnya: since the beginning of the Chechen conflict, Russian troops have been systematically looting villages and towns under their control, and there is no evidence that the Russian command has taken any steps to prevent it." - Human Rights Watch​
> Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly
> Russians 'mowed down fleeing civilian convoy' | World news | The Observer
> 
> We asked for independence and were willing to negotiate peacefully. Russia responded with guns, so that's precisely what we will use to secure freedom for the Caucasus.
> 
> YouTube - Çeçenistan'in Aslanlari &#1571;&#1587;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1610;&#1588;&#1575;&#1606; Lions of Chechnya 3/6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's "unfortunate"? Unfortunate? Are you stupid? They bombed a commuter train. Exactly who were they targeting because you make it sound like the civilians died by some accident. It was not an accident.... they targeted innocent people.
> 
> And, for the record.... I find your attitude abhorrent. You are the reason why people 'hate' Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only "attitude" you approve is one of active ignorance adored by skanks like yourself.  The point is this attack was not unprovoked and the islamophobia here is so bad nobody even acknowledges the atrocities committed by russia against the chechens.  When rich people fight they are called soldiers but when poor people fight back they are called terrorists.
Click to expand...

Why the fuck should anyone acknowledge anything other than the cowardice of this attack when there is a terrorist attack - an attack specifically targeting non-combatants?

I do no such enabling of cowardly acts.

Note that the cowards' plan to attack a kindergarten were stopped before the cowards could do so.

Idiot.


----------



## CurveLight

Si modo said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's "unfortunate"? Unfortunate? Are you stupid? They bombed a commuter train. Exactly who were they targeting because you make it sound like the civilians died by some accident. It was not an accident.... they targeted innocent people.
> 
> And, for the record.... I find your attitude abhorrent. You are the reason why people 'hate' Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only "attitude" you approve is one of active ignorance adored by skanks like yourself.  The point is this attack was not unprovoked and the islamophobia here is so bad nobody even acknowledges the atrocities committed by russia against the chechens.  When rich people fight they are called soldiers but when poor people fight back they are called terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why the fuck should anyone acknowledge anything other than the cowardice of this attack when there is a terrorist attack - an attack specifically targeting non-combatants?
> 
> I do no such enabling of cowardly acts.
> 
> Note that the cowards' plan to attack a kindergarten were stopped before the cowards could do so.
> 
> Idiot.
Click to expand...


Yeah, you're probably right.  Keep both eyes closed.  Keep your ears plugged.  Sell your common sense for pennies.....or half penny if qualified.  That is the best way to understand what is happening and why.  Nah!  Who the hell needs that?  It will all just stop on its own.........


Only a fuxxing jackass would try to equate comprehension with "enabling."


----------



## Si modo

CurveLight said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> The only "attitude" you approve is one of active ignorance adored by skanks like yourself.  The point is this attack was not unprovoked and the islamophobia here is so bad nobody even acknowledges the atrocities committed by russia against the chechens.  When rich people fight they are called soldiers but when poor people fight back they are called terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> Why the fuck should anyone acknowledge anything other than the cowardice of this attack when there is a terrorist attack - an attack specifically targeting non-combatants?
> 
> I do no such enabling of cowardly acts.
> 
> Note that the cowards' plan to attack a kindergarten were stopped before the cowards could do so.
> 
> Idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, you're probably right.  Keep both eyes closed.  Keep your ears plugged.  Sell your common sense for pennies.....or half penny if qualified.  That is the best way to understand what is happening and why.  Nah!  Who the hell needs that?  It will all just stop on its own.........
> 
> 
> Only a fuxxing jackass would try to equate comprehension with "enabling."
Click to expand...

  It has NOTHING to do with blindness.  Although beyond an idiot's comprehension, I do not enable terrorism.

You want awareness from me?  Don't terrorize.  Don't slaughter children and non-combatants.


----------



## Xenophon

Kalam said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda sucks eh?
> 
> Your violent delussions coming back to haunt you, and all those angry people who left you medieval motherfuckers behind now rule the roost.
> 
> 
> 
> Engrish?
> 
> 
> 
> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its nice that the best you can do is con the simple minded to blow themselves up, has a nice darwinian touch to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somebody isn't familiar with the struggle for independence in the Caucasus. What's it like to hate Muslims so much that you automatically assume the worst about us in every situation? What did we do to you?
Click to expand...


First off abdul, its a struggle for Chechens, NOT Muslims.

You Jihadi cocksuckers always insert your medival superstition into everything.

I'm not interested in what some delussion jerk thought he saw after sniffing camel ass all day, so don't tell us about 'Muslims.'

The next part is, I know exactly what I am talking about, 'Islam' violently converted the entire area, basically as a way to keep the Turks from fucking with them. All the shit you think they go through can be classified blowback, but even more accurately as poetic justice.

The Russians are hostile because that's just the way the Russians roll, but you and them deserve each other, good luck trying to beat them, nobody ever does permanently.

BTW, have you noticed that the poorest, worst kept and most unwanted places on earth just happen to be Muslim countries?

Seems Allah isn't a fan of you guys either, as the cosmic joke is on you.


----------



## CurveLight

Si modo said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the fuck should anyone acknowledge anything other than the cowardice of this attack when there is a terrorist attack - an attack specifically targeting non-combatants?
> 
> I do no such enabling of cowardly acts.
> 
> Note that the cowards' plan to attack a kindergarten were stopped before the cowards could do so.
> 
> Idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you're probably right.  Keep both eyes closed.  Keep your ears plugged.  Sell your common sense for pennies.....or half penny if qualified.  That is the best way to understand what is happening and why.  Nah!  Who the hell needs that?  It will all just stop on its own.........
> 
> 
> Only a fuxxing jackass would try to equate comprehension with "enabling."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has NOTHING to do with blindness.  Although beyond an idiot's comprehension, I do not enable terrorism.
> 
> You want awareness from me?  Don't terrorize.  Don't slaughter children and non-combatants.
Click to expand...


You maxxed out early.....


----------



## Xenophon

Just to show there are no hard feelings, here, have a ham sandwich, on me.


----------



## Si modo

Xenophon said:


> Just to show there are no hard feelings, here, have a ham sandwich, on me.


Gotta put it in his briefcase for later.


----------



## Douger

UNBELIEVABLE. No puede ser !
I was sure it was the Amish.


----------



## Annie

CurveLight said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's unfortunate that the operation resulted in civilian deaths rather than inflicting casualties on KGB terrorists. Still, this is an example of chickens coming home to roost.
> 
> "[Russian soldiers] first expelled, temporarily, hundreds of civilians from Alkhan-Yurt, and then began systematically looting and burning the village, killing anyone in their way... The killings went on for more than two weeks, without any apparent attempt by Russian authorities to stop it. Aindi Altimirov, the last to die, was killed and beheaded by Russian soldiers on December 18... The looting of Alkhan-Yurt was systematic and organized, involving a large number of soldiers who acted with impunity throughout their stay in the village. Looted goods were stored in the homes occupied by Russian commanders as well as the tents of soldiers, and were transported openly in military vehicles out of Alkhan-Yurt. It is simply impossible that such widespread looting could take place in broad daylight without the knowledge and, at a minimum, the tacit consent of Russian commanders. The looting that took place in Alkhan-Yurt was not an isolated incident of such misconduct by Russian forces in Chechnya: since the beginning of the Chechen conflict, Russian troops have been systematically looting villages and towns under their control, and there is no evidence that the Russian command has taken any steps to prevent it." - Human Rights Watch​
> Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly
> Russians 'mowed down fleeing civilian convoy' | World news | The Observer
> 
> We asked for independence and were willing to negotiate peacefully. Russia responded with guns, so that's precisely what we will use to secure freedom for the Caucasus.
> 
> YouTube - Çeçenistan'in Aslanlari &#1571;&#1587;&#1608;&#1583; &#1575;&#1604;&#1588;&#1610;&#1588;&#1575;&#1606; Lions of Chechnya 3/6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's "unfortunate"? Unfortunate? Are you stupid? They bombed a commuter train. Exactly who were they targeting because you make it sound like the civilians died by some accident. It was not an accident.... they targeted innocent people.
> 
> And, for the record.... I find your attitude abhorrent. You are the reason why people 'hate' Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> The only "attitude" you approve is one of active ignorance adored by skanks like yourself.  The point is this attack was not unprovoked and the islamophobia here is so bad nobody even acknowledges the atrocities committed by russia against the chechens.  When rich people fight they are called soldiers but when poor people fight back they are called terrorists.
Click to expand...


Yesterday was a red letter day for 'poor folk terrorists', bombings in Moscow and arrests of militia members in Michigan. All day long I heard about the ties of religion with terrorism, but not a mention of Muslims or Islam. I guess the MSM assumed everyone would just know that such a subway bombing from Chechyna was Muslims, but folks wouldn't assume Christians were in the militia-right?


----------



## CurveLight

Annie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's "unfortunate"? Unfortunate? Are you stupid? They bombed a commuter train. Exactly who were they targeting because you make it sound like the civilians died by some accident. It was not an accident.... they targeted innocent people.
> 
> And, for the record.... I find your attitude abhorrent. You are the reason why people 'hate' Muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only "attitude" you approve is one of active ignorance adored by skanks like yourself.  The point is this attack was not unprovoked and the islamophobia here is so bad nobody even acknowledges the atrocities committed by russia against the chechens.  When rich people fight they are called soldiers but when poor people fight back they are called terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yesterday was a red letter day for 'poor folk terrorists', bombings in Moscow and arrests of militia members in Michigan. All day long I heard about the ties of religion with terrorism, but not a mention of Muslims or Islam. I guess the MSM assumed everyone would just know that such a subway bombing from Chechyna was Muslims, but folks wouldn't assume Christians were in the militia-right?
Click to expand...



The world does not revolve around you so isn't it possible it was reported in the msm even though you didn't personally hear about it?  You're a fuxxing joke.


----------



## PixieStix

Xenophon said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kinda sucks eh?
> 
> Your violent delussions coming back to haunt you, and all those angry people who left you medieval motherfuckers behind now rule the roost.
> 
> 
> 
> Engrish?
> 
> 
> 
> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its nice that the best you can do is con the simple minded to blow themselves up, has a nice darwinian touch to it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Somebody isn't familiar with the struggle for independence in the Caucasus. What's it like to hate Muslims so much that you automatically assume the worst about us in every situation? What did we do to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off abdul, its a struggle for Chechens, NOT Muslims.
> 
> You Jihadi cocksuckers always insert your medival superstition into everything.
> 
> I'm not interested in what some delussion jerk thought he saw after sniffing camel ass all day, so don't tell us about 'Muslims.'
> 
> The next part is, I know exactly what I am talking about, 'Islam' violently converted the entire area, basically as a way to keep the Turks from fucking with them. All the shit you think they go through can be classified blowback, but even more accurately as poetic justice.
> 
> The Russians are hostile because that's just the way the Russians roll, but you and them deserve each other, good luck trying to beat them, nobody ever does permanently.
> 
> BTW, have you noticed that the poorest, worst kept and most unwanted places on earth just happen to be Muslim countries?
> 
> Seems Allah isn't a fan of you guys either, as the cosmic joke is on you.
Click to expand...


That is what happens when you worship a rock


----------



## CurveLight

Hey Annie, stop running and hiding every time you make stoopid comments both on threads and with the rep button.


----------



## Annie

CurveLight said:


> Hey Annie, stop running and hiding every time you make stoopid comments both on threads and with the rep button.



Oh the rep was for the incivility in your response, I thought that was very clear by my comment? You really didn't post anything to respond to. Vulgarities being what they are, rep suffices.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

CurveLight said:


> Hey Annie, stop running and hiding every time you make stoopid comments both on threads and with the rep button.



Dude! I didnt even know he was still here !!!


----------



## CurveLight

Annie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Annie, stop running and hiding every time you make stoopid comments both on threads and with the rep button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the rep was for the incivility in your response, I thought that was very clear by my comment? You really didn't post anything to respond to. Vulgarities being what they are, rep suffices.
Click to expand...



Didn't post anything to respond to? Lol........

What about the fact you're so damn arrogant you actually equate your absence of observance as evidence in universal presence of a media conspiracy theory?


----------



## Annie

CurveLight said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Annie, stop running and hiding every time you make stoopid comments both on threads and with the rep button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the rep was for the incivility in your response, I thought that was very clear by my comment? You really didn't post anything to respond to. Vulgarities being what they are, rep suffices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't post anything to respond to? Lol........
> 
> What about the fact you're so damn arrogant you actually equate your absence of observance as evidence in universal presence of a media conspiracy theory?
Click to expand...


LOL! Ok, if you think it's worth commenting upon. I'm off work this week, read political and news from WaPo, WSJ, and watched considerable news from CNN and C-Span. You?


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

CurveLight said:


> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Annie, stop running and hiding every time you make stoopid comments both on threads and with the rep button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the rep was for the incivility in your response, I thought that was very clear by my comment? You really didn't post anything to respond to. Vulgarities being what they are, rep suffices.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't post anything to respond to? Lol........
> 
> What about the fact you're so damn arrogant you actually equate your absence of observance as evidence in universal presence of a media conspiracy theory?
Click to expand...


Dude! I didnt even know he was still here !!!


----------



## CurveLight

Annie said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Annie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh the rep was for the incivility in your response, I thought that was very clear by my comment? You really didn't post anything to respond to. Vulgarities being what they are, rep suffices.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't post anything to respond to? Lol........
> 
> What about the fact you're so damn arrogant you actually equate your absence of observance as evidence in universal presence of a media conspiracy theory?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL! Ok, if you think it's worth commenting upon. I'm off work this week, read political and news from WaPo, WSJ, and watched considerable news from CNN and C-Span. You?
Click to expand...



Yes I think it's worth pointing out you are full of shit to claim a conspiracy on the msm when it did report on the religious affiliations of the assholes from both sides of the world.


----------



## Kalam

Si modo said:


> Religion, although relevant to you in your excusing the slaughter of children, is irrelevant to me.


Both you and I know that isn't true. You hate Islam and Muslims and express that hatred openly and frequently. If it was truly "irrelevant" to you, you wouldn't mention Beslan as if the deaths there were somehow more tragic than the deaths of tens of thousands of Chechen children at the hands of Russia. 



Si modo said:


> Your heroes slaughtered children at Beslan and are cowards.


_"Abdul-Khalim Sadullaev, the successor to slain Chechen President and resistance leader Aslan Maskhadov, told RFE/RL's North Caucasus Service in a 3 June (2005) interview that he strongly condemns terrorism and said it is not part of the resistance's policy. Sadullaev also said that while the resistance will continue to try to inflict the maximum damage on the Russian armed forces and military targets, they will not attack peaceful civilians, women, and children, and will not take them hostage."_ - RFE on President Abdul-Halim Sadulayev (RA), martyred in 2006

_"...he posted a letter on the internet in which he condemned the Beslan incident and denied any connection between 'the Ansar in Chechnya...with the killing of children, women and unarmed people in the Beslan school in North Ossetia.'"_ - Jamestown Foundation on Abu Hafs al-Urduni (RA), Commander of Foreign Mujahideen, martyred in 2006

_"No, in the eyes of the resistance such operations have no legitimacy. We ourselves were horrified by what they did in Beslan. Because we know the concrete facts of what our people hoped for, how it all began."_ - Doka Umarov, Amir of the Caucasus Emirate​
There's a reason that Shamil Basayev, who orchestrated the Beslan crisis, did not attempt to kill any civilians after Shaykh Abdul-Halim Sadulayev became President.


----------



## Kalam

California Girl said:


> It's "unfortunate"? Unfortunate? Are you stupid? They bombed a commuter train. Exactly who were they targeting because you make it sound like the civilians died by some accident. It was not an accident.... they targeted innocent people.


The bombers themselves may have chosen to attack civilians, which was an unfortunate and condemnable decision, but it's clear that the intended targets were the KGB and the Interior Ministry if it's true that the perpetrators were affiliated with the Caucasus Emirate. 



California Girl said:


> And, for the record.... I find your attitude abhorrent. You are the reason why people 'hate' Muslims.


People hate Muslims because people are ignorant and prejudicial. I could say the same thing about the attitude of most of the posters here toward Russian atrocities, but I tend not to make broad generalizations based on the stupidity of a few.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> People hate Muslims because people are ignorant and prejudicial. I could say the same thing about the attitude of most of the posters here toward Russian atrocities, but I tend not to make broad generalizations based on the stupidity of a few.


----------



## PixieStix

Kalam said:


> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's "unfortunate"? Unfortunate? Are you stupid? They bombed a commuter train. Exactly who were they targeting because you make it sound like the civilians died by some accident. It was not an accident.... they targeted innocent people.
> 
> 
> 
> The bombers themselves may have chosen to attack civilians, which was an unfortunate and condemnable decision, but it's clear that the intended targets were the KGB and the Interior Ministry if it's true that the perpetrators were affiliated with the Caucasus Emirate.
> 
> 
> 
> California Girl said:
> 
> 
> 
> And, for the record.... I find your attitude abhorrent. You are the reason why people 'hate' Muslims.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People hate Muslims because people are ignorant and prejudicial. I could say the same thing about the attitude of most of the posters here toward Russian atrocities, but I tend not to make broad generalizations based on the stupidity of a few.
Click to expand...


I don't hate muslims, I hate islam, and mohammed, and the lies that he perpetrated on the world to justify his own sins and crimes against humanity. Mohammed was a monster, and Muslims are suppose to follow his examples, as unfortunate as that is, many do

By the way, hate and distrust are 2 different things.





















This is when you start talking about the "crusades" 1....2....3....GO!


----------



## Kalam

PixieStix said:


> I don't hate muslims, I hate islam, and mohammed, and the lies that he perpetrated on the world to justify his own sins and crimes......................


I don't care. If you have a point you want to make, please make it.


----------



## PixieStix

Kalam said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't hate muslims, I hate islam, and mohammed, and the lies that he perpetrated on the world to justify his own sins and crimes......................
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care. If you have a point you want to make, please make it.
Click to expand...


The roots of Islam is pure hate, that is all


----------



## Kalam

PixieStix said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't hate muslims, I hate islam, and mohammed, and the lies that he perpetrated on the world to justify his own sins and crimes......................
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care. If you have a point you want to make, please make it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The *roots *of Islam *is *pure hate, that is all
Click to expand...


Thanks for your compelling input. Nice subject-verb agreement, btw.


----------



## PixieStix

Kalam said:


> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care. If you have a point you want to make, please make it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *roots *of Islam *is *pure hate, that is all
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks for your compelling input. Nice subject-verb agreement, btw.
Click to expand...


Yeah pretty bad huh? 

Let me fix that, 

The ROOT of Islam is Pure EVIL. There


----------



## Kalam

PixieStix said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PixieStix said:
> 
> 
> 
> The *roots *of Islam *is *pure hate, that is all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your compelling input. Nice subject-verb agreement, btw.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah pretty bad huh?
Click to expand...

I assumed it was a typo, but I don't let things like that stop me from complaining about grammar when I feel like being an asshole.


----------



## Angelhair

'Islamic militants suspected in Moscow bombings'

_Nah! Really??????????????? Wow! _


----------



## boedicca

It's a pretty safe bet that Putin will take Islamofascism a lot more seriously than Obama does.


----------



## Kalam

boedicca said:


> It's a pretty safe bet that Putin will take Islamofascism a lot more seriously than Obama does.



I don't know how he'll deal with Islam, but Putin is very serious about his fascism.


----------



## PixieStix

Beslan proves that Islamic terrorists do and will target innocence, "soft targets", to drum up emotion and fear

Striking fear in the hearts of the infidel

They will not be ignored 

Well at least these children are innocent according to the rest of the civilized world

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp0b5YYg9-0]YouTube - Beslan Tribute[/ame]


----------



## Kalam

PixieStix said:


> Beslan proves that Islamic terrorists do and will target innocence, "soft targets", to drum up emotion and fear
> 
> Striking fear in the hearts of the infidel
> 
> They will not be ignored
> 
> Well at least these children are innocent according to the rest of the civilized world





Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Religion, although relevant to you in your excusing the slaughter of children, is irrelevant to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Both you and I know that isn't true. You hate Islam and Muslims and express that hatred openly and frequently. If it was truly "irrelevant" to you, you wouldn't mention Beslan as if the deaths there were somehow more tragic than the deaths of tens of thousands of Chechen children at the hands of Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your heroes slaughtered children at Beslan and are cowards.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _"Abdul-Khalim Sadullaev, the successor to slain Chechen President and resistance leader Aslan Maskhadov, told RFE/RL's North Caucasus Service in a 3 June (2005) interview that he strongly condemns terrorism and said it is not part of the resistance's policy. Sadullaev also said that while the resistance will continue to try to inflict the maximum damage on the Russian armed forces and military targets, they will not attack peaceful civilians, women, and children, and will not take them hostage."_ - RFE on President Abdul-Halim Sadulayev (RA), martyred in 2006
> 
> _"...he posted a letter on the internet in which he condemned the Beslan incident and denied any connection between 'the Ansar in Chechnya...with the killing of children, women and unarmed people in the Beslan school in North Ossetia.'"_ - Jamestown Foundation on Abu Hafs al-Urduni (RA), Commander of Foreign Mujahideen, martyred in 2006
> 
> _"No, in the eyes of the resistance such operations have no legitimacy. We ourselves were horrified by what they did in Beslan. Because we know the concrete facts of what our people hoped for, how it all began."_ - Doka Umarov, Amir of the Caucasus Emirate​
> There's a reason that Shamil Basayev, who orchestrated the Beslan crisis, did not attempt to kill any civilians after Shaykh Abdul-Halim Sadulayev became President.
Click to expand...


40,000 Chechen children killed by Russians, and nobody from the "remember Beslan" crowd seems to care about them one bit. I wonder if it has anything to do with their being Muslims? 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i600qrlS2M]YouTube - Chechnya Shaheed Jihad Islam Nasheed[/ame]


----------



## AllieBaba

That's terrible but they won't garner any support by TARGETING INNOCENTS.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam


> blah blah blah


BBC News | EUROPE | Chechens 'using human shields'


----------



## Kalam

AllieBaba said:


> That's terrible but they won't garner any support by TARGETING INNOCENTS.



The Resistance agrees.


----------



## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam
> 
> 
> 
> blah blah blah
> 
> 
> 
> BBC News | EUROPE | Chechens 'using human shields'
Click to expand...




Oh, wow! I sure as hell bet the Russians wouldn't lie about _that_!

Fitnuts:
Google

Take your pick, you gullible tool.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam


> Blah blah blah


----------



## Si modo

Kalam said:


> Si modo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Religion, although relevant to you in your excusing the slaughter of children, is irrelevant to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Both you and I know that isn't true. You hate Islam and Muslims ....
Click to expand...

Once again, no I don't.  Your continued repeating a lie makes it no more true than the first time you said it.

I hate terrorists.


----------



## jillian

WillowTree said:


> vast lwc said:
> 
> 
> 
> *if the story about the christian militia terrorists was moved to "religion and ethics", because it contained the word "christian" in the header, then this one should be too.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *if cow shit turns to butter you can turn in yer churn.. Meanwhile do you need a waaaambalance? *
Click to expand...


was that supposed to be some effort at the english language?


----------



## AllieBaba

jillian said:


> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vast lwc said:
> 
> 
> 
> *if the story about the christian militia terrorists was moved to "religion and ethics", because it contained the word "christian" in the header, then this one should be too.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *if cow shit turns to butter you can turn in yer churn.. Meanwhile do you need a waaaambalance? *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> was that supposed to be some effort at the english language?
Click to expand...


Says the *E*nglish professor who forgot to capitalize the beginning of her sentence criticizing another's writing skill....


----------



## Si modo

One good thing that may come from this terrorism:  Putin may not veto UN sanctions on Iran.  That is, if our administration is sharp enough to strike with proposed sanctions quickly and effectively.  The latter is no given.


----------



## AllieBaba

Our administration isn't smart enough.


----------



## Munin

Kalam said:


> *People hate Muslims because people are ignorant and prejudicial.* I could say the same thing about the attitude of most of the posters here toward Russian atrocities, *but I tend not to make broad generalizations based on the stupidity of a few*.



You just did.


Not all people hate them because they are being ignorant and prejudical, some people hate them for trying to impose their medieval beliefs upon us. Some hate muslims for not acting against the extremists that they say abuse their religion, up until recentently I only saw this influential guy speaking out to defend his religion ( BBC News - Islamic scholar Tahir ul-Qadri issues terrorism fatwa ). People often say that when you say/do nothing you unwillingly/willingly agree with something and that is how it is perceved by many: muslims are unwilling to speak out against the people who murder in the name of "their" religion, but when someone makes a cartoon (not a crime in the modern world as far as I know) then you see what a lot of muslims stand for: the aggressive spread of more Islamic influence in a secular society.


Some hate muslims for being extremists themselves: for example, many muslims assume that wearing a headscarf is obligated for a muslim and impose it upon others. Or take the muhammed cartoon incident, in europe there is a division between church and state: the latest european evolution was to a more secular society (the last 50 years). One were people of all beliefs are free to express their opinions, make jokes, FREE press (that does not mean that it is only free to say things that are in line with Islam). In short: Europeans demand respect for their culture, values and traditions (secularity is one of the more modern european traditions). Even so it is officially a multicultural society, multiculturality does not mean you have the right to spit on the native culture, if you come to another country you need to show respect for the country.


Another thing that bothers many people is the building of minarets, as they are often felt as an agressive form of spreading Islam by muslims. How would you feel when a man yells the name of his diffent god to you when you re praying/... in your mosque/house/... , it is agressive by shoving anothers god propaganda song down your throat at your own house. In a recent documentary I saw on TV about Jerusalem showing the extremism of some Isreali jews I was kind of struck by the yelling of a foreign god while they were doing their prayers, I could understand why people would become hostile towards a different religion when it is as intrusive as that.


In a way it shows a lot of disrespect when you see at how a minority of muslims can violate the non-religious areas of hundreds/thousands of non-muslims. 


Then there was another issue with muslims wearing head scarves in PUBLIC SECULAR schools in europe, defending the wearing of the headscarf by saying that it is part of their religious identity and that they could otherwise not go to school. As I see it, this is a case in point where muslims expect everyone to put out their shoes and show respect for Islam when entering a mosque but then go outside and take a shit on the non-believers (/ "Kuffars") in the name of allah.


I will show respect when you show me that you deserve it, some muslims I know deserve my respect but this is not because of their religious aspects but their human qualities. For now I do not really see what considerable contribution Islam has brought to society in this latest century, if you know 1 please let me know (I m curious).


----------



## CurveLight

That's a lot of work that wholly fails to justify bigotry against muslims.  Two quick examples:

Head scarves:  who the fuk cares if they demanded to wear them as part of their identity?  You act like they were trying to force everyone else to wear them.

Cartoon:  I totally agree violence in response was wrong but you are being intellectually dishonest and ignoring the fact the West had been killing muslims in huge numbers.  I know it's difficult for bigots to see things from other perspectives but it doesn't justify the hatred.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Dude! I didnt even know he was still here !!!
False claims   of bigotry are an insufficient  answer to Islam genocidal ideology.


----------



## jillian

AllieBaba said:


> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WillowTree said:
> 
> 
> 
> *if cow shit turns to butter you can turn in yer churn.. Meanwhile do you need a waaaambalance? *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> was that supposed to be some effort at the english language?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Says the *E*nglish professor who forgot to capitalize the beginning of her sentence criticizing another's writing skill....
Click to expand...


i rarely use caps. and i think you're capable of understanding what i write.

her rant was unintelligible. 

but it's very cute that you defend her.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

I understood it.


----------



## AllieBaba

jillian said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jillian said:
> 
> 
> 
> was that supposed to be some effort at the english language?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Says the *E*nglish professor who forgot to capitalize the beginning of her sentence criticizing another's writing skill....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> i rarely use caps. and i think you're capable of understanding what i write.
> 
> her rant was unintelligible.
> 
> but it's very cute that you defend her.
Click to expand...


so not using caps is a superior form of gibberish?


----------



## Philobeado

...were revealed yesterday - as it was claimed that 21 MORE may be ready to strike. 

Faces of the &lsquo;Black Widow&rsquo; Moscow bombers revealed | The Sun |News


----------



## Munin

CurveLight said:


> That's a lot of work that wholly fails to justify bigotry against muslims.  Two quick examples:
> 
> Head scarves:  who the fuk cares if they demanded to wear them as part of their identity?  You act like they were trying to force everyone else to wear them.



You missed the part in the sentence that said "SECULAR SCHOOL".

They are FORCED upon other people, often by using violence/harrasment and threatening people who do not wear headscarfs: f.e. calling them whores (as that is what more extremist muslims believe western woman to be and any muslim that doesn't wear a headscarf), attacking them, ... . I m not saying every muslim does it, but once a big number of people start to wear headscarfs there is a big pressure upon the people that are not wearing them. Some muslims simply see it as their religious duty to harras people who do not wear headscarfs (even non-muslims), usually when you get areas with a dense muslim population from areas like Northern Africa (f.e. morroco) and the arab world  it is most common.

1 exception on this are the turkish immigrants, they re divided as their home country is secular "non-muslim" state (at least for now the current Turkish constitution neither recognizes an official religion nor promotes any, but things could change with erdogan).


This is the reason why many secular government schools in europe started a ban on headscarfs as the few schools that still allow headscarfs attract extremist muslims that generate an unpleasant climate for moderate muslims and non-muslims.



> the fact the West had been killing muslims in huge numbers. I know it's difficult for bigots to see things from other perspectives but it doesn't justify the hatred.



What do you mean? Were they killed because they were muslim? Because that seems to be what you re implying. If people (muslims/christians/...) get accidentally killed during a war that is not the same as saying that they were killed because they were muslim. Do you think the Catholics in Europe were being bombed to death during WWII because they were Catholic (as the Brittish/americans who bombed were Protestants)?

Ok let s look at it from your simplified muslim perspective as that makes things much easier for you: 
*muslims are being killed in Gaza, 
*muslims are being killed in Russia, 
*muslims are being killed in Iraq, 
*muslims are being killed in Afghanistan. 
=> Conclusion that can probably be made from this "religious view" is that the West is in favor of killing muslims ... maybe that s the problem: your way of looking at things is flawed (at least if that is what you implied).





Let s look at it from neutral perspective: replace "muslims" with "people who happen to be muslim" (as being muslim is in most cases not the reason for violence to happen). 

*People in Gaza are being killed because they are ruled by a government that provoces a military superpower 

*People in Russia are being killed because they are a separatist movement (much like the separatist rebels from spain: Basque separatists), many innocents get killed because Russia is a murderous state when it comes to dealing with rebels. 


*Why people are being killed in iraq? If you know why the US invaded it (other than the invisible WMDs), let me know. Other than that: civil war between ethnic groups: the destruction of the dictatorship of Saddam resulted in a power vacuum that is seen as an opportunity for every possible warlord in the Iraqi area to become "presidente" and american/brittish/... troops are/were the only thing in the way of grabbing that vacant dictator seat. And guess what: many innocent people die when there is a war going on in an urban area (another example: see Mexico urban drug war).


*Why people get killed in Afghanistan? Guerilla warfare tactics result in waging a very ugly kind of warfare (with many civilian casualties), civilians being mixed up with "military" units makes it difficult to distinguish between civilians and "rebels". This is a reason why civilised armies wear uniforms, so civilians can be easely distinguished from soldiers.


----------



## CurveLight

Munin said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a lot of work that wholly fails to justify bigotry against muslims.  Two quick examples:
> 
> Head scarves:  who the fuk cares if they demanded to wear them as part of their identity?  You act like they were trying to force everyone else to wear them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You missed the part in the sentence that said "SECULAR SCHOOL".
> 
> They are FORCED upon other people, often by using violence/harrasment and threatening people who do not wear headscarfs: f.e. calling them whores (as that is what more extremist muslims believe western woman to be and any muslim that doesn't wear a headscarf), attacking them, ... . I m not saying every muslim does it, but once a big number of people start to wear headscarfs there is a big pressure upon the people that are not wearing them. Some muslims simply see it as their religious duty to harras people who do not wear headscarfs (even non-muslims), usually when you get areas with a dense muslim population from areas like Northern Africa (f.e. morroco) and the arab world  it is most common.
> 
> 1 exception on this are the turkish immigrants, they re divided as their home country is secular "non-muslim" state (at least for now the current Turkish constitution neither recognizes an official religion nor promotes any, but things could change with erdogan).
> 
> 
> This is the reason why many secular government schools in europe started a ban on headscarfs as the few schools that still allow headscarfs attract extremist muslims that generate an unpleasant climate for moderate muslims and non-muslims.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the fact the West had been killing muslims in huge numbers. I know it's difficult for bigots to see things from other perspectives but it doesn't justify the hatred.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you mean? Were they killed because they were muslim? Because that seems to be what you re implying. If people (muslims/christians/...) get accidentally killed during a war that is not the same as saying that they were killed because they were muslim. Do you think the Catholics in Europe were being bombed to death during WWII because they were Catholic (as the Brittish/americans who bombed were Protestants)?
Click to expand...



Thank you.  Thank you very much for an excellent example of how bigots dance when shown their positions are based on bullshit.  Here is what you first said about the headscarves:

(MuninCaptainFullOfShit)
"Then there was another issue with muslims wearing head scarves in PUBLIC SECULAR schools in europe, defending the wearing of the headscarf by saying that it is part of their religious identity and that they could otherwise not go to school."

So you switch up from complaining they wanted to wear the headscarves to now saying they are forcing everyone else to wear them.......I guess anyone can dance with the stars if they fantasize enough......


----------



## AllieBaba

Hmm...it's sounds a lot like people saying that those who wear crosses to school or pray publicly are "forcing" their religion on others...


----------



## CurveLight

AllieBaba said:


> Hmm...it's sounds a lot like people saying that those who wear crosses to school or pray publicly are "forcing" their religion on others...




Sounds like you haven't heard about the free tutorship available for Spin School.


----------



## Kalam

Munin said:


> You just did.


Every person who hates all Muslims is guilty of prejudice against an entire group. Every person who hates someone merely because of their ethnic or religious identity is an ignoramus. These aren't generalizations; they're statements of fact.



Munin said:


> Not all people hate them because they are being ignorant and prejudical, some people hate them for trying to impose their medieval beliefs upon us.


Hatred of all Muslims is, as I said, an example of prejudice. 



Munin said:


> Some hate muslims for not acting against the extremists that they say abuse their religion,


That is hatred born of ignorance. Anybody who believes that Muslims are "silent" when it comes to groups such as al-Qa'idah does not pay a bit of attention to international affairs or current events in general. 



Munin said:


> up until recentently I only saw this influential guy speaking out to defend his religion ( BBC News - Islamic scholar Tahir ul-Qadri issues terrorism fatwa ).


You have only yourself to blame for failing to note the many differences in opinion between various Islamic scholars. 



Munin said:


> People often say that when you say/do nothing you unwillingly/willingly agree with something and that is how it is perceved by many:


I'll go ahead and assume that you support the recent attacks in Moscow, then. After all, according to your logic, the Russians who were killed tacitly supported Russian aggression in the Caucasus. I respectfully disagree; equating silence or non-action to tacit support is a feeble attempt to justify hatred and aggression.



Munin said:


> Some hate muslims for being extremists themselves: for example, many muslims assume that wearing a headscarf is obligated for a muslim and impose it upon others.


Modesty is obligatory. Wearing Islamic religious clothing is not "imposed" on non-Muslims. 



Munin said:


> Or take the muhammed cartoon incident, in europe there is a division between church and state: the latest european evolution was to a more secular society (the last 50 years). One were people of all beliefs are free to express their opinions, make jokes, FREE press (that does not mean that it is only free to say things that are in line with Islam). In short: Europeans demand respect for their culture, values and traditions (secularity is one of the more modern european traditions). Even so it is officially a multicultural society, multiculturality does not mean you have the right to spit on the native culture, if you come to another country you need to show respect for the country.


Nonsense. "Secularists" don't target specific religions like Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, who argues in favor of banning the Qur'an, banning the construction of Islamic buildings for a period of at least five years, and replacing a clause of the Dutch constitution requiring equality under the law with a clause praising the country's Christian and Jewish roots. 



Munin said:


> Another thing that bothers many people is the building of minarets, as they are often felt as an agressive form of spreading Islam by muslims. How would you feel when a man yells the name of his diffent god to you when you re praying/... in your mosque/house/... , it is agressive by shoving anothers god propaganda song down your throat at your own house.


That's the stupidest thing I've heard today. The adhan is not "aggressive" or used for purposes of "propaganda"; it's a call to prayer. Christians call their faithful to prayer with bells, Jews use the shofar in their services, and we use our voices. Hearing church bells or the shofar every day wouldn't bother me at all.



Munin said:


> In a recent documentary I saw on TV about Jerusalem showing the extremism of some Isreali jews I was kind of struck by the yelling of a foreign god while they were doing their prayers, I could understand why people would become hostile towards a different religion when it is as intrusive as that.


Faithful Jews worship the same God. If they don't like it, they shouldn't have moved to a part of the world that has been heavily Islamic for the last 1300 years. 



Munin said:


> In a way it shows a lot of disrespect when you see at how a minority of muslims can violate the non-religious areas of hundreds/thousands of non-muslims.


Gosh, you're right. Muslims sure do oppress people by aggressively forcing those near our places of worship to hear our call to prayer. 



Munin said:


> Then there was another issue with muslims wearing head scarves in PUBLIC SECULAR schools in europe, defending the wearing of the headscarf by saying that it is part of their religious identity and that they could otherwise not go to school. As I see it, this is a case in point where muslims expect everyone to put out their shoes and show respect for Islam when entering a mosque but then go outside and take a shit on the non-believers (/ "Kuffars") in the name of allah.


I'm sorry; how exactly does covering ones hair oppress others? This is now the stupidest thing I've heard today. You set and broke your own record in one post. 



Munin said:


> I will show respect when you show me that you deserve it, some muslims I know deserve my respect but this is not because of their religious aspects but their human qualities. For now I do not really see what considerable contribution Islam has brought to society in this latest century, if you know 1 please let me know (I m curious).


I'm not here to justify the existence of Islam to you. If you like it, great. If you don't, tough shit, because we'll only continue to grow.


----------



## Kalam

AllieBaba said:


> Hmm...it's sounds a lot like people saying that those who wear crosses to school or pray publicly are "forcing" their religion on others...



There's nothing wrong with dressing in accordance with religious requirements or praying in a public area as long as it doesn't interrupt the normal school day, etc.


----------



## Xenophon

I wasn't chilled by that.


----------



## Kalam

To get back on topic, Doka Umarov has personally claimed responsibility for ordering the recent subway attacks in Moscow. From a rebel news outlet:

_In his video statement, recorded on March 29, 2010, Dokka Abu Usman said that the attack had been a retaliation and a retribution for the massacre by Russian invaders of the poorest residents of Chechnya and Ingushetia, who were picking wild garlic in the Arshty village on February 11, 2010, to feed their families._​
The incident Umarov mentioned involved Russian soldiers gunning down 12 schoolchildren in a village in Ingushetia last month. Umarov says that additional attacks should be expected and has evidently renounced his belief that rebel operations should not target civilians. Justifying his actions in a manner disturbingly reminiscent of the claims made by Russian oppressors, Umarov asserted that all Russians are guilty of providing their government with "tacit support." By targeting civilians, the Amir has resorted to using infidel tactics. I can only hope that he will discontinue operations that endanger innocent lives and reaffirm his belief in avoiding civilian casualties. 

We need another mujahid like Khattab (RA) to wreak havoc on the oppressors' military rather than on civilians.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WKbLS6i8IU]YouTube - &#x202b;???? ??? ??????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ???? 10/11&#x202c;&lrm;[/ame]


----------



## Munin

CurveLight said:


> So you switch up from complaining they wanted to wear the headscarves to now saying they are forcing everyone else to wear them.......I guess anyone can dance with the stars if they fantasize enough......




I never switched, I argued from the start that wearing a headscarf represents a more radicalized islam and that I am against it when it starts to become forced upon others like in areas where a majority of people wear them: especially secular public schools. It is forced upon other muslims by peer pressure, creating a radicalized society. 

I think it s hard to understand without me giving a specific example:http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2009/09/antwerps_muslim_headscarf_row





> And then, there was the problem of the veil. In 2001, we had 46% Muslims. In 2008 we had 80% Muslims. And all that increase was in the three years from 2006. There are two reasons for that. The number of Muslims in Antwerp increased. And because schools changed their headscarf rules, one by one, quietly, and in the end only three schools in the city allowed scarves.
> 
> At the beginning, I didn&#8217;t see a problem, we&#8217;d do a dialogue among Muslims. But then, because we were one of the only schools to allow scarves, we attracted a very conservative group, who identified very much with the veil. In 2003, the discussion was still, should we wear the veil or not. We did a fashion show on the theme of choice with girls wearing scarves or not. One girl wore half a scarf to show her uncertainty. We wanted girls to decide.
> 
> By 2008, discussion was how to wear the scarf. Not whether. In 2007-8 there were 15 girls who came with long robes, gloves, and only their faces showing. Scarves became longer and longer. I had a lot of confrontations with those girls, I said to them: &#8220;you&#8217;re spoiling the educational project.&#8221; I said to them: &#8220;you&#8217;re stigmatising yourselves. You&#8217;re breaking with society by wearing those clothes.&#8221;
> 
> They always said, &#8220;you&#8217;re stigmatising us&#8221;. In 2007 and 2008 I banned gloves, very long robes. Even that was hard for the girls. We saw girls starting to wear veils who had not before, and asked them why. They said they did not feel very comfortable without a scarf, I must be accepted. We had girls who wore scarves at school, but teachers saw them outside the school without scarves.
> 
> There was a sense that girls wearing veils were showing they were more pious. My view was each girl had the right to wear a scarf, to preserve equality. The last two years, there was a sense of a heavy, oppressive atmosphere over the schoolyard.
> 
> [Note from Charlemagne: On September 1st this year, the new school year began with scarves banned. On September 11th 2009, the Flemish education council passed a rule banning scarves across the 700 secular state schools it runs in Dutch-speaking Belgium. Those secular schools educate about 15% of Flemish pupils. The majority are taught in state-funded, religious denominated schools, which basically means Catholic schools in Flanders, though there are Jewish schools in Antwerp, home to a sizeable Hasidic community. Religious schools are free to draw up their own dress codes in Flanders: most Catholic schools in Antwerp have banned headscarves for a while. By 2008, only three schools in the city allowed scarves.]
> 
> Last Friday [September 11th], a group of five girls, 18 years old, came to me to say how grateful they were to me that I had done this. We feel freer, they said, you&#8217;ve no idea the pressure we were under.
> 
> 
> [Q: what else changed over the past three years?]
> 
> We used to do a two day trip to Paris. For 15 year olds. Suddenly, in the last three years it was not possible. Suddenly their older brothers had to come too, it was a problem for them to stay overnight. In 2007, we cancelled the two day trip and it became a day trip, we left at 5 in the morning.
> 
> We used to go to Istanbul for a week with the 18 year olds, too. We chose that city as a crossing point of cultures. Then because of security fears, we decided to go to Italy instead of Istanbul. We chose Italy to give them a sense of humanism, of da Vinci. But, oh, the difficulties I had to explain to the students that they should be interested in our culture, for the sake of reciprocity. It hurt, when students said they were not interested in western culture.


----------



## Munin

Kalam said:


> I'll go ahead and assume that you support the recent attacks in Moscow, then. After all, according to your logic, the Russians who were killed tacitly supported Russian aggression in the Caucasus. I respectfully disagree; equating silence or non-action to tacit support is a feeble attempt to justify hatred and aggression.



I did not say that this was a justification for russian agression. I was saying that this was a reason for "people" to hate muslims (separate answer on a separate issue). As I never understood that a cartoon of muhammed in a public newspaper is more insulting to muslims then a guy murdering thousands of civilians in the name of allah. 

I do not support Russians or the nationalists in this conflict, although I aim against the way Russians seriously go out of line and misbehave towards civilians.




> That's the stupidest thing I've heard today. The adhan is not "aggressive" or used for purposes of "propaganda"; it's a call to prayer. Christians call their faithful to prayer with bells, Jews use the shofar in their services, and we use our voices. Hearing church bells or the shofar every day wouldn't bother me at all.
> 
> Gosh, you're right. Muslims sure do oppress people by aggressively forcing those near our places of worship to hear our call to prayer.



How about five times each day?  dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night.

And I m not talking about some old beatiful architectural historic mosque somewhere in a muslim city, I m talking about a new mosque in a dense city area with a lot of non-muslims. A bell is a short lasting sound and does not implicate the name of a god: any religion can use it. Singing your religious song over a non-religious city does have something intrusive, but that s just my view. 





> Faithful Jews worship the same God. If they don't like it, they shouldn't have moved to a part of the world that has been heavily Islamic for the last 1300 years.



True the mosque was there before them, but still: I do not think muslims would like it when they heard the sound of the Jewish god 5 times a day over Gaza.


----------



## CurveLight

Munin said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you switch up from complaining they wanted to wear the headscarves to now saying they are forcing everyone else to wear them.......I guess anyone can dance with the stars if they fantasize enough......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never switched, I argued from the start that wearing a headscarf represents a more radicalized islam and that I am against it when it starts to become forced upon others like in areas where a majority of people wear them: especially secular public schools. It is forced upon other muslims by peer pressure, creating a radicalized society.
> 
> I think it s hard to understand without me giving a specific example:Antwerp&#039;s Muslim headscarf row, the story on the ground | The Economist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then, there was the problem of the veil. In 2001, we had 46% Muslims. In 2008 we had 80% Muslims. And all that increase was in the three years from 2006. There are two reasons for that. The number of Muslims in Antwerp increased. And because schools changed their headscarf rules, one by one, quietly, and in the end only three schools in the city allowed scarves.
> 
> At the beginning, I didnt see a problem, wed do a dialogue among Muslims. But then, because we were one of the only schools to allow scarves, we attracted a very conservative group, who identified very much with the veil. In 2003, the discussion was still, should we wear the veil or not. We did a fashion show on the theme of choice with girls wearing scarves or not. One girl wore half a scarf to show her uncertainty. We wanted girls to decide.
> 
> By 2008, discussion was how to wear the scarf. Not whether. In 2007-8 there were 15 girls who came with long robes, gloves, and only their faces showing. Scarves became longer and longer. I had a lot of confrontations with those girls, I said to them: youre spoiling the educational project. I said to them: youre stigmatising yourselves. Youre breaking with society by wearing those clothes.
> 
> They always said, youre stigmatising us. In 2007 and 2008 I banned gloves, very long robes. Even that was hard for the girls. We saw girls starting to wear veils who had not before, and asked them why. They said they did not feel very comfortable without a scarf, I must be accepted. We had girls who wore scarves at school, but teachers saw them outside the school without scarves.
> 
> There was a sense that girls wearing veils were showing they were more pious. My view was each girl had the right to wear a scarf, to preserve equality. The last two years, there was a sense of a heavy, oppressive atmosphere over the schoolyard.
> 
> [Note from Charlemagne: On September 1st this year, the new school year began with scarves banned. On September 11th 2009, the Flemish education council passed a rule banning scarves across the 700 secular state schools it runs in Dutch-speaking Belgium. Those secular schools educate about 15% of Flemish pupils. The majority are taught in state-funded, religious denominated schools, which basically means Catholic schools in Flanders, though there are Jewish schools in Antwerp, home to a sizeable Hasidic community. Religious schools are free to draw up their own dress codes in Flanders: most Catholic schools in Antwerp have banned headscarves for a while. By 2008, only three schools in the city allowed scarves.]
> 
> Last Friday [September 11th], a group of five girls, 18 years old, came to me to say how grateful they were to me that I had done this. We feel freer, they said, youve no idea the pressure we were under.
> 
> 
> [Q: what else changed over the past three years?]
> 
> We used to do a two day trip to Paris. For 15 year olds. Suddenly, in the last three years it was not possible. Suddenly their older brothers had to come too, it was a problem for them to stay overnight. In 2007, we cancelled the two day trip and it became a day trip, we left at 5 in the morning.
> 
> We used to go to Istanbul for a week with the 18 year olds, too. We chose that city as a crossing point of cultures. Then because of security fears, we decided to go to Italy instead of Istanbul. We chose Italy to give them a sense of humanism, of da Vinci. But, oh, the difficulties I had to explain to the students that they should be interested in our culture, for the sake of reciprocity. It hurt, when students said they were not interested in western culture.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...



The economist?  I won't click on that link.  I breezed through the bullshit and you've just danced.   You switched your position and now the best you can do is the economist that points out veils were.......banned.  I respect your attempt to justify your bigotry but if you have to work so hard to try and justify it......what does that say?


----------



## kyzr

It says that some folks just shouldn't be allowed out of their home country.  Then again, just like Farrakhan's personal body-guard just happened to be the "DC sniper", some hateful people people need to be marginalized.  I wonder what the creeps are planning next.


----------



## Charles Stucker

Kalam said:


> As of now, Doka Umarov and the Caucasus Emirate have not claimed responsibility for the operation in Moscow. Rebel sources indicate, however, that this may have been a botched martyrdom operation targeting the central offices of the KGB and the Interior Ministry. A large number of the deaths occurred when subway passengers trampled each other as they ran towards the exits.


Does that fact that innocent people die when Islamic nutjobs set off a bunch of bombs never bother you?


----------



## Kalam

Charles Stucker said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> As of now, Doka Umarov and the Caucasus Emirate have not claimed responsibility for the operation in Moscow. Rebel sources indicate, however, that this may have been a botched martyrdom operation targeting the central offices of the KGB and the Interior Ministry. A large number of the deaths occurred when subway passengers trampled each other as they ran towards the exits.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that fact that innocent people die when Islamic nutjobs set off a bunch of bombs never bother you?
Click to expand...


It bothers me that Russia has slaughtering these people for nearly two decades simply because they desired independence. It also bothers me that, outside of a tiny handful of Arabs, Turks, Americans, and other foreigners driven by their religious convictions to fight in Chechnya's defense, little attention is paid to the plight of the North Caucasus. It bothers the mujahideen as well. Unfortunately, some of them have been bothered so much that they've turned to the same tactics that are used to oppress them. Innocent deaths are always troubling.


----------



## asaratis

Xenophon said:


> I wasn't chilled by that.


Maybe he meant the photos were chilling...like maybe on ice.

The accomplice looks like one the Mario Brothers.


On edit:
The title is false advertising anyway.  He promised chilling images of the bombers.  Both nouns there are plural.  He produced only one image of one dead bomber.  How distastefully dishonest...and it was only a picture of her head.  Let's see the rest of her blown-to-bits body.  Now _that_ might be chilling...might discourage some of the remaining trainees and change their stupid, brainwashed minds.  All those that praise the bitch should be shot dead.


----------



## Si modo

"Troubling"?

Riiight.


----------



## Kalam

Si modo said:


> "Troubling"?
> 
> Riiight.



Yes.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/111371-islamic-militants-suspected-in-moscow-bombings-10.html#post2161713


----------



## eagleseven

Did her bomb go off? Her face is still rather intact...and I've seen what a HE round can do to someone.


----------



## Kalam

asaratis said:


> The title is false advertising anyway.  He promised chilling images of the bombers.  Both nouns there are plural.  He produced only one image of one dead bomber.



Did you click "next"?


----------



## Kalam

eagleseven said:


> Did her bomb go off? Her face is still rather intact...and I've seen what a HE round can do to someone.



Vests and belts usually leave your head intact, they just do a number on your torso.


----------



## CurveLight

Charles Stucker said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> As of now, Doka Umarov and the Caucasus Emirate have not claimed responsibility for the operation in Moscow. Rebel sources indicate, however, that this may have been a botched martyrdom operation targeting the central offices of the KGB and the Interior Ministry. A large number of the deaths occurred when subway passengers trampled each other as they ran towards the exits.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that fact that innocent people die when Islamic nutjobs set off a bunch of bombs never bother you?
Click to expand...



As opposed to when Whitehouse nutjobs drop bombs and kill innocents?


----------



## PixieStix

These two are now in a place that is reserved for mohammads minions. I am sure they did not expect it to be so hot, but at least they get to spend eternity with their leader.

The pictures did not disturb me at all.


----------



## xotoxi

Xenophon said:


> I wasn't chilled by that.


 
My body temperature actually went up 0.2 degrees.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't chilled by that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My body temperature actually went up 0.2 degrees.
Click to expand...


As long as nothing else rose.........


----------



## xotoxi

Samson said:


> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Xenophon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't chilled by that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My body temperature actually went up 0.2 degrees.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As long as nothing else rose.........
Click to expand...

 
My left eyebrow rose as well.

Plus I brought my right pinky up to the R corner of my mouth.


----------



## Gatekeeper

eagleseven said:


> Did her bomb go off? Her face is still rather intact...and I've seen what a HE round can do to someone.



Yes, amazing her face is still intact. I guess her 'booby bomb' was directional. Too bad these people who subscribe to this insanity won't choose peace. Why do people wish to live in fear and chaos over anything else. They are fanatical human misfits, brainwashed in the same manner as the Japanese Kamikaze suicide bombers of WWII. 

Religion and ideology, the curse of mankind, it would seem.

How can the brains of supposedly intelligent human beings ,be so easily manipulated by others to carry out someone else's evil deeds? I guess we are not so intelligent after all.
Are we really all this stupid?


----------



## CurveLight

kyzr said:


> It says that some folks just shouldn't be allowed out of their home country.  Then again, just like Farrakhan's personal body-guard just happened to be the "DC sniper", some hateful people people need to be marginalized.  I wonder what the creeps are planning next.




Stop repeating rumors because it only makes you look foolish.  The best info available says the sniper did security at the MMM in 95'.  There is no evidence he was ever a bodyguard for anyone.


----------



## Samson

Philobeado said:


> ...were revealed yesterday - as it was claimed that 21 MORE may be ready to strike.
> 
> Faces of the &lsquo;Black Widow&rsquo; Moscow bombers revealed | The Sun |News



The Muslim women's suicide attacks killed 39 on the Russian capital's metro on Monday. 



> Nine of the group are now thought to have died in attacks - and officials are racing to track down the others.



WTF......where are the pics of the other 7???








> Russian PM Vladimir Putin vowed to hunt down the masterminds of the bombing "to the bottom of the sewers".


----------



## eagleseven

Gatekeeper said:


> Are we really all this stupid?


No. With a certain set of beliefs, this woman's actions are completely logical, and very intelligent.

If there is a God and an afterlife, as described in the Koran, martyrdom is the pareto optimal way to die.


----------



## Samson

xotoxi said:


> Samson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xotoxi said:
> 
> 
> 
> My body temperature actually went up 0.2 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As long as nothing else rose.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My left eyebrow rose as well.
> 
> Plus I brought my right pinky up to the R corner of my mouth.
Click to expand...


So far, you haven't upset EZ.


----------



## PubliusInfinitum

Kalam said:


> eagleseven said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did her bomb go off? Her face is still rather intact...and I've seen what a HE round can do to someone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vests and belts usually leave your head intact, they just do a number on your torso.
Click to expand...

 

Ahh Haji...  Glad to see ya pop in.

What's the official Islamic Mass Murdering word on the "Virgins" thing, here?  Do the female mass murdering Muslims get to their fair share; thus are entitled to engage in debacherous orgies with 72 female virgins?  Or is there some in-house mechanism which automatically converts the Islamic heavenly sexual objects, into males?

Inquiring minds wanna know...


----------



## JWBooth

Xenophon said:


> I wasn't chilled by that.


Nor was I.


----------



## AllieBaba

CurveLight said:


> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> As of now, Doka Umarov and the Caucasus Emirate have not claimed responsibility for the operation in Moscow. Rebel sources indicate, however, that this may have been a botched martyrdom operation targeting the central offices of the KGB and the Interior Ministry. A large number of the deaths occurred when subway passengers trampled each other as they ran towards the exits.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that fact that innocent people die when Islamic nutjobs set off a bunch of bombs never bother you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to when Whitehouse nutjobs drop bombs and kill innocents?
Click to expand...


for the millionth time...there's a difference in collateral damage and *TARGETING* INNOCENT CIVILIANS.


----------



## CurveLight

AllieBaba said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does that fact that innocent people die when Islamic nutjobs set off a bunch of bombs never bother you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to when Whitehouse nutjobs drop bombs and kill innocents?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for the millionth time...there's a difference in collateral damage and *TARGETING* INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
Click to expand...



Is that what they say at the funeral?  Is that what you would say?

"No ma'am, that is not your son. That is collateral damage."


----------



## AllieBaba

What a pig you are. Enjoy the fact that people die to protect your cowardly ass.


----------



## CurveLight

AllieBaba said:


> What a pig you are. Enjoy the fact that people die to protect your cowardly ass.




Enjoy the fact you support killing innocent people then try to dehumaize their murders by calling it "collateral damage."  Btw, do you say this shit to all Combat Vets or do you pretend to respect their service when they share your views?


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

CurveLight said:


> AllieBaba said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to when Whitehouse nutjobs drop bombs and kill innocents?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for the millionth time...there's a difference in collateral damage and *TARGETING* INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Is that what they say at the funeral?  Is that what you would say?
> 
> "No ma'am, that is not your son. That is collateral damage."
Click to expand...

Dude! I didnt even know he was still here !!!


----------



## blastoff

I'm just hoping the wonder religion of Islam that treats women on earth worse than livestock doesn't cheat them out of their 72 virgin guys in paradise.  Seems to me they won 'em fair and square just like the guys have.


----------



## CurveLight

blastoff said:


> I'm just hoping the wonder religion of Islam that treats women on earth worse than livestock doesn't cheat them out of their 72 virgin guys in paradise.  Seems to me they won 'em fair and square just like the guys have.



There's nothing about 72 virgins in the Koran.  Kinda makes you look silly to criticize Islam when you don't know basic facts.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Dude! I didnt even know he was still here !!!


----------



## Charles Stucker

Kalam said:


> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> As of now, Doka Umarov and the Caucasus Emirate have not claimed responsibility for the operation in Moscow. Rebel sources indicate, however, that this may have been a botched martyrdom operation targeting the central offices of the KGB and the Interior Ministry. A large number of the deaths occurred when subway passengers trampled each other as they ran towards the exits.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that fact that innocent people die when Islamic nutjobs set off a bunch of bombs never bother you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It bothers me that Russia has slaughtering these people for nearly two decades simply because they desired independence. It also bothers me that, outside of a tiny handful of Arabs, Turks, Americans, and other foreigners driven by their religious convictions to fight in Chechnya's defense, little attention is paid to the plight of the North Caucasus. It bothers the mujahideen as well. Unfortunately, some of them have been bothered so much that they've turned to the same tactics that are used to oppress them. Innocent deaths are always troubling.
Click to expand...

In other words you have an excuse for the atrocities because they were committed in the name of Mohamed. 

there used to be a saying Two Wrongs don't make a right, but it is clear the Islamic nutjobs would commit a wrong if the only reciprocal wrong were they were denied total control over everything (as that *IS* the will of Mohamed)


----------



## Kalam

Gatekeeper said:


> Too bad these people who subscribe to this insanity won't choose peace.


There was an opportunity for peace when Dudayev declared independence from the USSR in 1991; Yeltsin sent troops instead. There was an opportunity for peace when the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria was formed in 1993; Russia launched a failed invasion of Grozny instead. There was an opportunity for peace when, after the Russians had been bombarding Chechnya for weeks, the two nations agreed to end their use of force; Russia attempted to invade Chechnya a few days later. After years of war and Russian atrocities, there was yet another opportunity for peace after Maskhadov and Yeltsin signed a peace agreement in 1997; Russia invaded Chechnya again two years later and established a puppet regime after rejecting another generous appeal for peace by Maskhadov. When the Russian terrorists murdered Aslan Maskhadov in 2005, they completely destroyed any hope of peace. The conflict has changed from a crushed bid for independence to a front for ongoing jihad. 

BBC NEWS | Europe | Obituary: Aslan Maskhadov


----------



## Kalam

Charles Stucker said:


> In other words you have an excuse for the atrocities because they were committed in the name of Mohamed.
> 
> there used to be a saying Two Wrongs don't make a right, but it is clear the Islamic nutjobs would commit a wrong if the only reciprocal wrong were they were denied total control over everything (as that *IS* the will of Mohamed)



Thank you for putting your complete ignorance of the circumstances surrounding the Chechen conflict on public display.


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> blastoff said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just hoping the wonder religion of Islam that treats women on earth worse than livestock doesn't cheat them out of their 72 virgin guys in paradise.  Seems to me they won 'em fair and square just like the guys have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing about 72 virgins in the Koran.  Kinda makes you look silly to criticize Islam when you don't know basic facts.
Click to expand...


The Quran and the hadith state that jihad is the direct path to Paradise.

In fact, according to Islamic doctrine, violent jihad the the ONLY assurance to gain entry to Paradise.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blastoff said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just hoping the wonder religion of Islam that treats women on earth worse than livestock doesn't cheat them out of their 72 virgin guys in paradise.  Seems to me they won 'em fair and square just like the guys have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing about 72 virgins in the Koran.  Kinda makes you look silly to criticize Islam when you don't know basic facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Quran and the hadith state that jihad is the direct path to Paradise.
Click to expand...

Indeed.


----------



## JWBooth

AllieBaba said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does that fact that innocent people die when Islamic nutjobs set off a bunch of bombs never bother you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As opposed to when Whitehouse nutjobs drop bombs and kill innocents?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> for the millionth time...there's a difference in collateral damage and *TARGETING* INNOCENT CIVILIANS.
Click to expand...


Dead innocents are just as dead, and just as mourned by their loved ones  who have every right to despise for all eternity their killers.


----------



## Charles Stucker

Marc39 said:


> In fact, according to Islamic doctrine, violent jihad the the ONLY assurance to gain entry to Paradise.



I wonder why someone building tenets of a religion bent on conquering their neighbors would put something like that in their belief system.

Sounds like Valhalla for the Norse.
So I guess Islam really *IS* a pagan religion.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> In fact, according to Islamic doctrine, violent jihad the the ONLY assurance to gain entry to Paradise.


Nope.

_And hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and Jannah, as wide as the heavens and the earth; it is prepared for those who keep their duty: Those who spend in ease as well as in adversity and those who restrain anger and pardon men. And Allah loves the doers of good. And those who, when they commit an indecency or wrong their souls, remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their sins. And who forgives sins but Allah? And they persist not knowingly in what they do. Their reward is protection from their Lord, and Gardens wherein flow rivers, to abide in them. And excellent is the reward of the workers!_ - 3:133-136

_And certainly Allah made a covenant with the Children of Israel, and We raised up among them twelve chieftains. And Allah said: Surely I am with you. If you keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and believe in My messengers and assist them and offer to Allah a goodly gift, I will certainly cover your evil deeds, and cause you to enter Gardens wherein rivers flow. But whoever among you disbelieves after that, he indeed strays from the right way._ - 5:12

_Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians -- whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good -- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve._ - 5:69​


----------



## Kalam

Charles Stucker said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, according to Islamic doctrine, violent jihad the the ONLY assurance to gain entry to Paradise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder why someone building tenets of a religion bent on conquering their neighbors would put something like that in their belief system.
> 
> Sounds like Valhalla for the Norse.
> So I guess Islam really *IS* a pagan religion.
Click to expand...



*pa·gan* /&#712;pe&#618;g&#601;n/ [*pey*-g_uh_n] 

&#8211;*noun*
_1. one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks.

2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.

3. an irreligious or hedonistic person._​



Large amounts of fail detected in this sector today.


----------



## CurveLight

Marc39 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blastoff said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just hoping the wonder religion of Islam that treats women on earth worse than livestock doesn't cheat them out of their 72 virgin guys in paradise.  Seems to me they won 'em fair and square just like the guys have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing about 72 virgins in the Koran.  Kinda makes you look silly to criticize Islam when you don't know basic facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Quran and the hadith state that jihad is the direct path to Paradise.
> 
> In fact, according to Islamic doctrine, violent jihad the the ONLY assurance to gain entry to Paradise.
Click to expand...



Idiot.  Learn how to read.


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing about 72 virgins in the Koran.  Kinda makes you look silly to criticize Islam when you don't know basic facts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Quran and the hadith state that jihad is the direct path to Paradise.
> 
> In fact, according to Islamic doctrine, violent jihad the the ONLY assurance to gain entry to Paradise.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot.  Learn how to read.
Click to expand...


I do read...the Quran and hadith.
Who's the idiot, again?


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, according to Islamic doctrine, violent jihad the the ONLY assurance to gain entry to Paradise.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> _And hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and Jannah, as wide as the heavens and the earth; it is prepared for those who keep their duty: Those who spend in ease as well as in adversity and those who restrain anger and pardon men. And Allah loves the doers of good. And those who, when they commit an indecency or wrong their souls, remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their sins. And who forgives sins but Allah? And they persist not knowingly in what they do. Their reward is protection from their Lord, and Gardens wherein flow rivers, to abide in them. And excellent is the reward of the workers!_ - 3:133-136
> 
> _And certainly Allah made a covenant with the Children of Israel, and We raised up among them twelve chieftains. And Allah said: Surely I am with you. If you keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and believe in My messengers and assist them and offer to Allah a goodly gift, I will certainly cover your evil deeds, and cause you to enter Gardens wherein rivers flow. But whoever among you disbelieves after that, he indeed strays from the right way._ - 5:12
> 
> _Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians -- whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good -- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve._ - 5:69​
Click to expand...


You're quoting from the Mecca suras, when Muhammad was a religious figure.  Unfortunately for you, the subsequent Medinese suras, which abrogate the earlier Meccan Quran, contain the violent content reflecting Muhammad being the Jew-hater, warlord, terrorist, mass murderer, thief, hijacker, extortionist, looter and womanizer.

Thus, the final suras, which override those you have deceptively chosen to post...

Quran 9:5...


> Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.



Qur'an 33:26... 


> Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.



Qur'an 59:14... 


> The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell.


----------



## CurveLight

Marc39 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Quran and the hadith state that jihad is the direct path to Paradise.
> 
> In fact, according to Islamic doctrine, violent jihad the the ONLY assurance to gain entry to Paradise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot.  Learn how to read.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do read...the Quran and hadith.
> Who's the idiot, again?
Click to expand...


You are the idiot.  I pointed out the "72 virgins" crap is not in the Koran and you responded with something completely different.  

Furthermore, what is the purpose of cherry picking the Koran like you are doing?  Judaism and Christianity both have texts that can be cherry picked for the same type of bigotry you are trying to justify.  Idiot.


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot.  Learn how to read.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do read...the Quran and hadith.
> Who's the idiot, again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are the idiot.  I pointed out the "72 virgins" crap is not in the Koran and you responded with something completely different.
> 
> Furthermore, what is the purpose of cherry picking the Koran like you are doing?  Judaism and Christianity both have texts that can be cherry picked for the same type of bigotry you are trying to justify.  Idiot.
Click to expand...


You, evidently, have problems with basic reading comprehension.  Quranic doctrine states that violent jihad is the direct path to Paradise, which Muslims believe entails endless sexual gratification.


----------



## CurveLight

Marc39 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do read...the Quran and hadith.
> Who's the idiot, again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are the idiot.  I pointed out the "72 virgins" crap is not in the Koran and you responded with something completely different.
> 
> Furthermore, what is the purpose of cherry picking the Koran like you are doing?  Judaism and Christianity both have texts that can be cherry picked for the same type of bigotry you are trying to justify.  Idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You, evidently, have problems with basic reading comprehension.  Quranic doctrine states that violent jihad is the direct path to Paradise, which Muslims believe entails endless sexual gratification.
Click to expand...



You. Are. One. Dumb. Mother. Fucker.


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are the idiot.  I pointed out the "72 virgins" crap is not in the Koran and you responded with something completely different.
> 
> Furthermore, what is the purpose of cherry picking the Koran like you are doing?  Judaism and Christianity both have texts that can be cherry picked for the same type of bigotry you are trying to justify.  Idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You, evidently, have problems with basic reading comprehension.  Quranic doctrine states that violent jihad is the direct path to Paradise, which Muslims believe entails endless sexual gratification.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You. Are. One. Dumb. Mother. Fucker.
Click to expand...


You are PWNED.   Don't miss your anger management class, today.


----------



## CurveLight

Marc39 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You, evidently, have problems with basic reading comprehension.  Quranic doctrine states that violent jihad is the direct path to Paradise, which Muslims believe entails endless sexual gratification.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You. Are. One. Dumb. Mother. Fucker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are PWNED.   Don't miss your anger management class, today.
Click to expand...



Oh no.  I'm so devastated a bigot like you says I'm pwned.  How will I ever go on?  One last time you dummass......someone made a claim about 72 virgins so I pointed out that is no where in the Koran.  It makes sense idiots like you are bigots because if you had any worthy intelligence.....you wouldn't be a bigot.


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> You. Are. One. Dumb. Mother. Fucker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are PWNED.   Don't miss your anger management class, today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no.  I'm so devastated a bigot like you says I'm pwned.  How will I ever go on?  One last time you dummass......someone made a claim about 72 virgins so I pointed out that is no where in the Koran.  It makes sense idiots like you are bigots because if you had any worthy intelligence.....you wouldn't be a bigot.
Click to expand...


While the Quran says nothing of 72 virgins, Quranic instructions mandating jihadist obligations in order to enter Paradise is what motivates Muslim terrorists.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Marc39 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do read...the Quran and hadith.
> Who's the idiot, again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are the idiot.  I pointed out the "72 virgins" crap is not in the Koran and you responded with something completely different.
> 
> Furthermore, what is the purpose of cherry picking the Koran like you are doing?  Judaism and Christianity both have texts that can be cherry picked for the same type of bigotry you are trying to justify.  Idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You, evidently, have problems with basic reading comprehension.  Quranic doctrine states that violent jihad is the direct path to Paradise, which Muslims believe entails endless sexual gratification.
Click to expand...


It is proper to cherry pick   the Quran on the topics that concern you , No reason to go on and on about   the parts of Islam  that do not concern  none muslims. Infidels  should know what Islam says about them


9:111 Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Quran. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.
9:112
(The believers whose lives Allah has purchased are) those who repent to Allah (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allah's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all what Islam has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islam has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allah (do all that Allah has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allah has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers.

Surat At-Tawbah - The Holy Qur'an - GlobalQuran.com


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Idiot.  Learn how to read.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do read...the Quran and hadith.
> Who's the idiot, again?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are the idiot.  I pointed out the "72 virgins" crap is not in the Koran and you responded with something completely different.
> 
> Furthermore, what is the purpose of cherry picking the Koran like you are doing?  Judaism and Christianity both have texts that can be cherry picked for the same type of bigotry you are trying to justify.  Idiot.
Click to expand...


There is a vast difference between the Bible and Koran:  The Bible depicts violence, usually between tribes, but, does not exhort violence in the form of mass murder of non-Christians and non-Jews as the Koran does against non-Muslims.

The Bible, generally, reflects Jesus's philosophy of peace.
The Koran reflects Muhammad's philosophy of intolerance, bigotry and warfare for his own personal enrichment.


----------



## CurveLight

Marc39 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are PWNED.   Don't miss your anger management class, today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no.  I'm so devastated a bigot like you says I'm pwned.  How will I ever go on?  One last time you dummass......someone made a claim about 72 virgins so I pointed out that is no where in the Koran.  It makes sense idiots like you are bigots because if you had any worthy intelligence.....you wouldn't be a bigot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> While the Quran says nothing of 72 virgins, Quranic instructions mandating jihadist obligations in order to enter Paradise is what motivates Muslim terrorists.
Click to expand...



You've already been proven wrong about that you lying fukwad ****.


----------



## CurveLight

Marc39 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do read...the Quran and hadith.
> Who's the idiot, again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are the idiot.  I pointed out the "72 virgins" crap is not in the Koran and you responded with something completely different.
> 
> Furthermore, what is the purpose of cherry picking the Koran like you are doing?  Judaism and Christianity both have texts that can be cherry picked for the same type of bigotry you are trying to justify.  Idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a vast difference between the Bible and Koran:  The Bible depicts violence, usually between tribes, but, does not exhort violence in the form of mass murder of non-Christians and non-Jews as the Koran does against non-Muslims.
> 
> The Bible, generally, reflects Jesus's philosophy of peace.
> The Koran reflects Muhammad's philosophy of intolerance, bigotry and warfare for his own personal enrichment.
Click to expand...




You are so damn reetawrded it's not even worth the effort to prove how wrong you are and as shown, you're nothing but an arrogant bigot who will say anything, regardless how false or stoopid, to justify your bullshit.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

CurveLight said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no.  I'm so devastated a bigot like you says I'm pwned.  How will I ever go on?  One last time you dummass......someone made a claim about 72 virgins so I pointed out that is no where in the Koran.  It makes sense idiots like you are bigots because if you had any worthy intelligence.....you wouldn't be a bigot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While the Quran says nothing of 72 virgins, Quranic instructions mandating jihadist obligations in order to enter Paradise is what motivates Muslim terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You've already been proven wrong about that you lying fukwad ****.
Click to expand...


Dude! I didnt even know he was still here !!!


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Thats how you deal  with  fact proof morons .


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are the idiot.  I pointed out the "72 virgins" crap is not in the Koran and you responded with something completely different.
> 
> Furthermore, what is the purpose of cherry picking the Koran like you are doing?  Judaism and Christianity both have texts that can be cherry picked for the same type of bigotry you are trying to justify.  Idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a vast difference between the Bible and Koran:  The Bible depicts violence, usually between tribes, but, does not exhort violence in the form of mass murder of non-Christians and non-Jews as the Koran does against non-Muslims.
> 
> The Bible, generally, reflects Jesus's philosophy of peace.
> The Koran reflects Muhammad's philosophy of intolerance, bigotry and warfare for his own personal enrichment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are so damn reetawrded it's not even worth the effort to prove how wrong you are and as shown, you're nothing but an arrogant bigot who will say anything, regardless how false or stoopid, to justify your bullshit.
Click to expand...


You mean, you are unable to prove how wrong I am.   Because, I am correct.


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no.  I'm so devastated a bigot like you says I'm pwned.  How will I ever go on?  One last time you dummass......someone made a claim about 72 virgins so I pointed out that is no where in the Koran.  It makes sense idiots like you are bigots because if you had any worthy intelligence.....you wouldn't be a bigot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While the Quran says nothing of 72 virgins, Quranic instructions mandating jihadist obligations in order to enter Paradise is what motivates Muslim terrorists.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You've already been proven wrong about that you lying fukwad ****.
Click to expand...


Maybe, in your inverse parallel universe, but, not in reality, where I reside.

Bukhari:V4B52N220...


> Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror. The treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand.



You're done.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> You're quoting from the Mecca suras, when Muhammad was a religious figure.  Unfortunately for you, the subsequent Medinese suras, which abrogate the earlier Meccan Quran, contain the violent content reflecting Muhammad being the Jew-hater, warlord, terrorist, mass murderer, thief, hijacker, extortionist, looter and womanizer.
> 
> Thus, the final suras, which override those you have deceptively chosen to post...
> 
> Quran 9:5...
> 
> 
> Qur'an 33:26...
> 
> 
> 
> Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qur'an 59:14...
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




Al-i-Imran (3) and al-Ma'idah (5) were both revealed in Madinah. Al-Ma'idah was one of the very last portions of the Qur'an to be revealed. Study Judaism. The pseudo-intellectual approach that most non-Muslim critics take toward Islam tends not to serve them well when they're in the company of believers who are familiar with their religion.


----------



## CurveLight

Marc39 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is a vast difference between the Bible and Koran:  The Bible depicts violence, usually between tribes, but, does not exhort violence in the form of mass murder of non-Christians and non-Jews as the Koran does against non-Muslims.
> 
> The Bible, generally, reflects Jesus's philosophy of peace.
> The Koran reflects Muhammad's philosophy of intolerance, bigotry and warfare for his own personal enrichment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are so damn reetawrded it's not even worth the effort to prove how wrong you are and as shown, you're nothing but an arrogant bigot who will say anything, regardless how false or stoopid, to justify your bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean, you are unable to prove how wrong I am.   Because, I am correct.
Click to expand...



Then explain these verses from the Bible.  Since you are obviously an expert it would be an insult to cite chapter and verses.  I'm sure you know exactly where these are...


(a covenant)
"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."

And....


(if someone worships a foreign god)
"If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt."


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> Al-i-Imran (3) and al-Ma'idah (5) were both revealed in Madinah. Al-Ma'idah was one of the very last portions of the Qur'an to be revealed. Study Judaism. The pseudo-intellectual approach that most non-Muslim critics take toward Islam tends not to serve them well when they're in the company of believers who are familiar with their religion.


Rare post.


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're quoting from the Mecca suras, when Muhammad was a religious figure.  Unfortunately for you, the subsequent Medinese suras, which abrogate the earlier Meccan Quran, contain the violent content reflecting Muhammad being the Jew-hater, warlord, terrorist, mass murderer, thief, hijacker, extortionist, looter and womanizer.
> 
> Thus, the final suras, which override those you have deceptively chosen to post...
> 
> Quran 9:5...
> 
> 
> Qur'an 33:26...
> 
> 
> 
> Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qur'an 59:14...
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al-i-Imran (3) and al-Ma'idah (5) were both revealed in Madinah. Al-Ma'idah was one of the very last portions of the Qur'an to be revealed. Study Judaism. The pseudo-intellectual approach that most non-Muslim critics take toward Islam tends not to serve them well when they're in the company of believers who are familiar with their religion.
Click to expand...


Sura 9:5 was one of the last revelations...


> Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.



Sheikh Maulana Maududi, the Islamic scholar who founded the Islamic movement in Pakistan, further edifies on the murderous objectives of Islam...


> Islam wishes to destroy all states and governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam regardless of the country or the nation which rules it. The purpose of Islam is to set up a state on the basis of its own ideology and program &#8230; the objective of Islamic jihad is to eliminate the rule of an un-Islamic system and establish instead an Islamic system of state rule. Islam does not intend to confine this revolution to a single state or a few countries; the aim of Islam is to bring about a universal revolution.



Judaism does not call for mass murder of non-Jews as Islam does for non-Muslims.


----------



## CurveLight

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're quoting from the Mecca suras, when Muhammad was a religious figure.  Unfortunately for you, the subsequent Medinese suras, which abrogate the earlier Meccan Quran, contain the violent content reflecting Muhammad being the Jew-hater, warlord, terrorist, mass murderer, thief, hijacker, extortionist, looter and womanizer.
> 
> Thus, the final suras, which override those you have deceptively chosen to post...
> 
> Quran 9:5...
> 
> 
> Qur'an 33:26...
> 
> 
> 
> Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qur'an 59:14...
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al-i-Imran (3) and al-Ma'idah (5) were both revealed in Madinah. Al-Ma'idah was one of the very last portions of the Qur'an to be revealed. Study Judaism. The pseudo-intellectual approach that most non-Muslim critics take toward Islam tends not to serve them well when they're in the company of believers who are familiar with their religion.
Click to expand...



These dummasses live off of soundbites then wonder why their brains are always starving when they try to debate.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

CurveLight said:


> These dummasses live off of soundbites then wonder why their brains are always starving when they try to debate.



Dude! I didnt even know he was still here !!!


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Al-i-Imran (3) and al-Ma'idah (5) were both revealed in Madinah. Al-Ma'idah was one of the very last portions of the Qur'an to be revealed. Study Judaism. The pseudo-intellectual approach that most non-Muslim critics take toward Islam tends not to serve them well when they're in the company of believers who are familiar with their religion.
> 
> 
> 
> Rare post.
Click to expand...

As in not well done.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> Sura 9:5 was one of the last revelations...


Indeed. You were still entirely incorrect regarding al-i-Imran and al-Ma'idah. 



Marc39 said:


> Sheikh Maulana Maududi, the Islamic scholar who founded the Islamic movement in Pakistan, further edifies on the murderous objectives of Islam...
> 
> 
> 
> Islam wishes to destroy all states and governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam regardless of the country or the nation which rules it. The purpose of Islam is to set up a state on the basis of its own ideology and program  the objective of Islamic jihad is to eliminate the rule of an un-Islamic system and establish instead an Islamic system of state rule. Islam does not intend to confine this revolution to a single state or a few countries; the aim of Islam is to bring about a universal revolution.
Click to expand...


The Maulana was a brilliant man. I'm assuming that you haven't actually read "Jihad in Islam", so I'll help clarify his position for you. The Maulana goes on to write,

_"Towards this end, Islam wishes to press into service all forces which can bring about a revolution and a composite term for the use of all these forces is 'Jihad'. To change the outlook of the people and initiate a mental revolution among them through speech or writing is a form of 'Jihad'. To alter the old tyrannical social system and establish a new, just order of life by the power of sword is also 'Jihad' and to expend goods and exert physically for this cause is 'Jihad', too."_​
The scope of jihad is far broader than physical combat, and jihad does not include combat that isn't solely for the sake of God.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> The scope of jihad is far broader than physical combat, and jihad does not include combat that isn't solely for the sake of God.



Thats a fairly broad category 

9:111 Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Quran. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.
9:112
(The believers whose lives Allah has purchased are) those who repent to Allah (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allah's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all what Islam has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islam has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allah (do all that Allah has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allah has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers.

Surat At-Tawbah - The Holy Qur'an - GlobalQuran.com


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sura 9:5 was one of the last revelations...
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. You were still entirely incorrect regarding al-i-Imran and al-Ma'idah.
> 
> 
> 
> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sheikh Maulana Maududi, the Islamic scholar who founded the Islamic movement in Pakistan, further edifies on the murderous objectives of Islam...
> 
> 
> 
> Islam wishes to destroy all states and governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam regardless of the country or the nation which rules it. The purpose of Islam is to set up a state on the basis of its own ideology and program  the objective of Islamic jihad is to eliminate the rule of an un-Islamic system and establish instead an Islamic system of state rule. Islam does not intend to confine this revolution to a single state or a few countries; the aim of Islam is to bring about a universal revolution.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Maulana was a brilliant man. I'm assuming that you haven't actually read "Jihad in Islam", so I'll help clarify his position for you. The Maulana goes on to write,
> 
> _"Towards this end, Islam wishes to press into service all forces which can bring about a revolution and a composite term for the use of all these forces is 'Jihad'. To change the outlook of the people and initiate a mental revolution among them through speech or writing is a form of 'Jihad'. To alter the old tyrannical social system and establish a new, just order
> of life by the power of sword is also 'Jihad' and to expend goods and exert
> physically for this cause is 'Jihad', too."_​
> The scope of jihad is far broader than physical combat, and jihad does not include combat that isn't solely for the sake of God.
Click to expand...


the overwhelming majority of Islamic doctrine pertains to military jihad and early scholars are in agreement on this matter.  Indeed, most of the content of the Quran, Sunnah, Hadith and Sira pertaining to jihad is violent and militaristic.  For instance, 90% of Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith jihad discussion is militaristic.

Sheikh Maududi goes on further on the religious obligation of achieving Islamic objectives through aggressive, revolution and jihad...


> Islam is not the name of a Religion, nor is Muslim the title of a Nation. In reality Islam is a revolutionary ideology and programme which seeks to alter the social order of the whole world and rebuild it in conformity with its own tenets and ideals. Muslim is the title of that International Revolutionary Party organized by Islam to carry into effect its revolutionary programme. And Jih&#257;d refers to that revolutionary struggle and utmost exertion which the Islamic Party brings into play to achieve this objective.


----------



## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Al-i-Imran (3) and al-Ma'idah (5) were both revealed in Madinah. Al-Ma'idah was one of the very last portions of the Qur'an to be revealed. Study Judaism. The pseudo-intellectual approach that most non-Muslim critics take toward Islam tends not to serve them well when they're in the company of believers who are familiar with their religion.
> 
> 
> 
> Rare post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> As in not well done.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that we were discussing your lobotomy.


----------



## Kalam

CurveLight said:


> These dummasses live off of soundbites then wonder why their brains are always starving when they try to debate.


Oh, I wouldn't call it stupidity. The Fitnah guy up there is a walking DSM-IV; he only says what he does because "the voices" command him to.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rare post.
> 
> 
> 
> As in not well done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wasn't aware that we were discussing your lobotomy.
Click to expand...


Thanks.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> the overwhelming majority of Islamic doctrine pertains to military jihad and early scholars are in agreement on this matter.  Indeed, most of the content of the Quran, Sunnah, Hadith and Sira pertaining to jihad is violent and militaristic.  For instance, 90% of Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith jihad discussion is militaristic.
> 
> Sheikh Maududi goes on further on the religious obligation of achieving Islamic objectives through aggressive, revolution and jihad...
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is not the name of a Religion, nor is Muslim the title of a Nation. In reality Islam is a revolutionary ideology and programme which seeks to alter the social order of the whole world and rebuild it in conformity with its own tenets and ideals. Muslim is the title of that International Revolutionary Party organized by Islam to carry into effect its revolutionary programme. And Jih&#257;d refers to that revolutionary struggle and utmost exertion which the Islamic Party brings into play to achieve this objective.
Click to expand...


The message of Islam is spread and its livelihood is preserved through whatever type of jihad is necessary. If a society is relatively "free" and doesn't place oppressive restrictions on religious liberty, scholarly defense and propagation of Islam is most appropriate. If a society tyrannizes Muslims and does not observe the right of people to worship freely, taking up arms against it becomes a matter of religious duty.


----------



## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> As in not well done.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't aware that we were discussing your lobotomy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...


Any time.


----------



## Kalam

Update:



			
				Al Jazeera said:
			
		

> *Teenage widow behind Moscow blast*
> 
> The 17-year-old widow of a North Caucasus fighter has been confirmed by Russian security officials as one of the suicide bombers who attacked the Moscow metro system on Monday.
> 
> The blasts at quick succession at two stations during morning rush hour killed 39 people and injured more than 70.
> 
> "One of the female suicide bombers, who blew herself up at the Park Kultury metro station, was Dzhanet Abdullayeva," news agencies quoted an official with the National anti-terror committee as saying.
> 
> The committee comprises chiefs of top ministries and state bodies.
> 
> "She was born in 1992 and lived in the Khasavyurtsky region of Dagestan," the official said.
> 
> Full Article



Her identity has neither been confirmed nor denied by the Caucasus Emirate as far as I know.


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> the overwhelming majority of Islamic doctrine pertains to military jihad and early scholars are in agreement on this matter.  Indeed, most of the content of the Quran, Sunnah, Hadith and Sira pertaining to jihad is violent and militaristic.  For instance, 90% of Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith jihad discussion is militaristic.
> 
> Sheikh Maududi goes on further on the religious obligation of achieving Islamic objectives through aggressive, revolution and jihad...
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is not the name of a Religion, nor is Muslim the title of a Nation. In reality Islam is a revolutionary ideology and programme which seeks to alter the social order of the whole world and rebuild it in conformity with its own tenets and ideals. Muslim is the title of that International Revolutionary Party organized by Islam to carry into effect its revolutionary programme. And Jih&#257;d refers to that revolutionary struggle and utmost exertion which the Islamic Party brings into play to achieve this objective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The message of Islam is spread and its livelihood is preserved through whatever type of jihad is necessary. If a society is relatively "free" and doesn't place oppressive restrictions on religious liberty, scholarly defense and propagation of Islam is most appropriate. If a society tyrannizes Muslims and does not observe the right of people to worship freely, taking up arms against it becomes a matter of religious duty.
Click to expand...


The message of Islam is to IMPOSE its repressive ideology on others.  That is fascism.   Keep your religion to yourself, especially one that subjugates women and calls for the mass murder of non-Muslims.  A religion founded by a pedophile married to a 6 year-old who used his cult to bed women, hijack caravans and take 20% of the "booty", extort jizya payments from others, steal land and murder his adversaries, including female poets who dared criticize him.  This is Islam's Perfect Man. 

Qur'an 8:12...


> I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.


----------



## Charles Stucker

Kalam said:


> If a society tyrannizes Muslims and does not observe the right of people to worship freely, taking up arms against it becomes a matter of religious duty.


Except for the problem that Muslims refuse to live under the conditions they inflict on other religions. Apparently there is a double standard.
When Muslims restrict freedoms of other types of worship that is a just move toward the Islamic society they want.
When other beliefs restrict freedom on Muslims, the call goes out for Jihad! Even when the restriction is something as innocuous as not letting them build minarets. 
Switzerland, Bueller, anybody, Bueller


----------



## Kalam

In press release on March 29th, the U.S. Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe said the following:



			
				CSCE said:
			
		

> The architects of Russia&#8217;s North Caucasus policy don&#8217;t ride the metro, especially not at eight in the morning. These attacks targeted innocent working class people on their way to jobs and schools. If you improve security on these trains, the killers will simply find a softer target. While this attack hit Moscow, it serves as a cry for help to end the violence and poverty in Chechnya and neighboring regions that engender the desperation that makes these sorts of incidents more likely.
> 
> CSCE :: Press Release :: Statement on Terrorist Attack in Moscow



According to rebel sources, the Russian foreign ministry responded by describing the "cry for help" comment as "clumsy" and "inappropriate" while expressing gratitude over the statement of solidarity. It seems that almost everyone outside of the Kremlin realizes that incidents such as this are the predictable result of Russia's disastrous and oppressive North Caucasus policy.


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're quoting from the Mecca suras, when Muhammad was a religious figure.  Unfortunately for you, the subsequent Medinese suras, which abrogate the earlier Meccan Quran, contain the violent content reflecting Muhammad being the Jew-hater, warlord, terrorist, mass murderer, thief, hijacker, extortionist, looter and womanizer.
> 
> Thus, the final suras, which override those you have deceptively chosen to post...
> 
> Quran 9:5...
> 
> 
> Qur'an 33:26...
> 
> 
> 
> Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qur'an 59:14...
> 
> 
> 
> The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Al-i-Imran (3) and al-Ma'idah (5) were both revealed in Madinah. Al-Ma'idah was one of the very last portions of the Qur'an to be revealed. Study Judaism. The pseudo-intellectual approach that most non-Muslim critics take toward Islam tends not to serve them well when they're in the company of believers who are familiar with their religion.
Click to expand...


The early Medina revelations were somewhat respectful of Jews and other non-Muslims, however, eventually, those revelations became increasingly militant and violent against kafirs, especially Jews, who rejected Muhammad's belief system.  

Muhammad tried to coerce Jews into converting to Islam and those coinciding Koranic verses reflect a more tolerant view toward Jews.  Muhammad even ordered that Muslims pray in the direction of Jerusalem to show good faith toward the Jews.  However, after Jews rejected his cult, Muhammad redirected prayer away from Jerusalem and toward Mecca.   He then proceeded to persecute the Jewish tribes, expelling some and keeping their land and possessions as booty, which Allah conveniently said was ok to do, oppressing other Jews for jizya payments and beheading 800 other Jews.  The later Medina Koranic verses reflect Muhammad's tough stance toward the Jews.

Ultimately, Muhammad's deathbed curse was to forbid all Jews and Christians from living in Arabia, which remains the law in Saudi Arabia today.


----------



## Charles Stucker

Marc39 said:


> Ultimately, Muhammad's deathbed curse was to forbid all Jews and Christians from living in Arabia, which remains the law in Saudi Arabia today.



You forget yourself. Big Mo was the Profit from God. Without someone to victimize how can their be any profit.

I suppose some might try hard work and ingenuity, but those seem, to be lacking among jihadists who would prefer violence and loot.


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are so damn reetawrded it's not even worth the effort to prove how wrong you are and as shown, you're nothing but an arrogant bigot who will say anything, regardless how false or stoopid, to justify your bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean, you are unable to prove how wrong I am.   Because, I am correct.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Then explain these verses from the Bible.  Since you are obviously an expert it would be an insult to cite chapter and verses.  I'm sure you know exactly where these are...
> 
> 
> (a covenant)
> "They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."
> 
> And....
> 
> 
> (if someone worships a foreign god)
> "If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt."
Click to expand...


Judaism strictly forbids forced conversions or proselytizing of any kind of non-Jews, thus, your quotes are invalid.   Non-Jews expressing an interest in conversion must prove a genuine desire to do so and then must undergo an extensive education process into Judaism.

In contrast, anyone wishing to convert to Christianity or Islam can do so merely by saying Christ is their savior or that Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet. 

Don't decide later to convert out of Islam as the penalty for apostasy is death.


----------



## Marc39

Charles Stucker said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, Muhammad's deathbed curse was to forbid all Jews and Christians from living in Arabia, which remains the law in Saudi Arabia today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forget yourself. Big Mo was the Profit from God. Without someone to victimize how can their be any profit.
> 
> I suppose some might try hard work and ingenuity, but those seem, to be lacking among jihadists who would prefer violence and loot.
Click to expand...


Mo made a lot of money hijacking caravans and stealing land and booty, so, the loss of some jizya as a consequence of expulsions of Jews and Christians could be made up for through his other illicit activities.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> The message of Islam is to IMPOSE its repressive ideology on others.



More from Sayyid Abul A'la Maududi on the issue:



			
				Maududi said:
			
		

> 8. Freedom of Conscience and Conviction
> 
> Islam also gives the right to freedom of conscience and conviction to its citizens in an Islamic State. The Holy Quran has laid down the injunction: "There should be no coercion in the matter of faith" (2:256). Though there is no truth and virtue greater than the religion of Truth - Islam, and Muslims are enjoined to invite people to embrace Islam and advance arguments in favour of it, they are not asked to enforce this faith on them. No force will be applied in order to compel them to accept Islam. Whoever accepts it he does so by his own choice. Muslims will welcome such a convert to Islam with open arms and admit him to their community with equal rights and privileges. But if somebody does not accept Islam, Muslims will have to recognize and respect his decision, and no moral, social or political pressure will be put on him to change his mind.
> 
> 9. Protection of Religious Sentiments
> 
> Along with the freedom of conviction and freedom of conscience, Islam has given the right to the individual that his religious sentiments will be given due respect and nothing will be said or done which may encroach upon this right. It has been ordained by God in the Holy Quran: "Do not abuse those they appeal to instead of God" (6:108). These instructions are not only limited to idols and deities, but they also apply to the leaders or national heroes of the people. If a group of people holds a conviction which according to you is wrong, and holds certain persons in high esteem which according to you is not deserved by them, then it will not be justified in Islam that you use abusive language for them and thus injure their feelings. Islam does not prohibit people from holding debate and discussion on religious matters, but it wants that these discussions should be conducted in decency. "Do not argue with the people of the Book unless it is in the politest manner" (29:46)-says the Quran. This order is not merely limited to the people of the Scriptures, but applies with equal force to those following other faiths.


----------



## rdean

Have Republicans suggested the Muslims in Russia are friends of Obama?  Yet?


----------



## Charles Stucker

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The message of Islam is to IMPOSE its repressive ideology on others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More from Sayyid Abul A'la Maududi on the issue:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maududi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Freedom of Conscience and Conviction
> 
> Islam also gives the right to freedom of conscience and conviction to its citizens in an Islamic State. The Holy Quran has laid down the injunction: "There should be no coercion in the matter of faith" (2:256). Though there is no truth and virtue greater than the religion of Truth - Islam, and Muslims are enjoined to invite people to embrace Islam and advance arguments in favour of it, they are not asked to enforce this faith on them. No force will be applied in order to compel them to accept Islam. Whoever accepts it he does so by his own choice. Muslims will welcome such a convert to Islam with open arms and admit him to their community with equal rights and privileges. But if somebody does not accept Islam, Muslims will have to recognize and respect his decision, and no moral, social or political pressure will be put on him to change his mind.
> 
> 9. Protection of Religious Sentiments
> 
> Along with the freedom of conviction and freedom of conscience, Islam has given the right to the individual that his religious sentiments will be given due respect and nothing will be said or done which may encroach upon this right. It has been ordained by God in the Holy Quran: "Do not abuse those they appeal to instead of God" (6:108). These instructions are not only limited to idols and deities, but they also apply to the leaders or national heroes of the people. If a group of people holds a conviction which according to you is wrong, and holds certain persons in high esteem which according to you is not deserved by them, then it will not be justified in Islam that you use abusive language for them and thus injure their feelings. Islam does not prohibit people from holding debate and discussion on religious matters, but it wants that these discussions should be conducted in decency. "Do not argue with the people of the Book unless it is in the politest manner" (29:46)-says the Quran. This order is not merely limited to the people of the Scriptures, but applies with equal force to those following other faiths.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

So basically all the Islamic states that coerce people into converting are illegitimate states and represent the drift from the true word, which means there needs to be a new prophet to get them back on the right path, except there can be no more prophets because Mo didn't want the competition so he said so himself.

WOW and you still cannot see the hypocrisy inherent in Islam.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ultimately, Muhammad's deathbed curse was to forbid all Jews and Christians from living in Arabia, which remains the law in Saudi Arabia today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forget yourself. Big Mo was the Profit from God. Without someone to victimize how can their be any profit.
> 
> I suppose some might try hard work and ingenuity, but those seem, to be lacking among jihadists who would prefer violence and loot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Mo made a lot of money hijacking caravans and stealing land and booty, so, the loss of some jizya as a consequence of expulsions of Jews and Christians could be made up for through his other illicit activities.
Click to expand...


Put our livelihood at risk and we'll preserve it by taking back what is rightfully ours. If the Quraysh didn't want their caravans to be attacked, they should have thought twice before torturing, oppressing, and stealing from Muslims. Like all of those hostile to Islam, of course, they were eventually subdued.


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The message of Islam is to IMPOSE its repressive ideology on others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More from Sayyid Abul A'la Maududi on the issue:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maududi said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Freedom of Conscience and Conviction
> 
> Islam also gives the right to freedom of conscience and conviction to its citizens in an Islamic State.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And, death to those kafirs not wishing to live in a fascist Islamic state.
> 
> Freedom of conscience and conviction must also coincide with Islamic law.  Islam is Arabic for submission.  Muslims are those who have submitted.  There is no room for freedom of though in Islam.
> 
> Bernard Lewis, the foremost Islamic scholar of his time, edifies...
> 
> 
> 
> The so-called Muslim fundamentalists are something quite different. In principle, all Muslims believe in the literal divine origin and textual inerrancy of the Koran. No one within Islam has ever asserted otherwise, and there is no liberal theology or critical Koran study against which a protest or reaction might be necessary. Where the so-called Muslim fundamentalists differ from other Muslimsand incidentally also from Christian fundamentalistsis in their scholasticism and their legalism. The gravamen of their case against existing regimes and prevailing ideologies is the abandonment of the Shari'a, the systematized law of Islam, and the adoption of what they see as infidel laws and customs. In his denunciation of the misdeeds of the Shah, Khomeini laid special emphasis on the Western-style emancipation of women, and the sharing of political power with non-Muslims. Other proponents of re-Islamization, in Egypt and elsewhere, have made similar complaints. Their critique is not, however, limited to these issues, but covers the whole range of social and cultural modernization. Their declared purpose is to undo all the political, legal, and consequent social changes that have been introduced during the period of Westernization, and to restore the full panoply of the Islamic state and the Islamic holy law. Only when the neopagan apostates who rule in Islamic lands have been deposed, and their laws and institutions abrogated and annulled, will the true Islamic life become possible, and the true mission of Islam be accomplished
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forget yourself. Big Mo was the Profit from God. Without someone to victimize how can their be any profit.
> 
> I suppose some might try hard work and ingenuity, but those seem, to be lacking among jihadists who would prefer violence and loot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mo made a lot of money hijacking caravans and stealing land and booty, so, the loss of some jizya as a consequence of expulsions of Jews and Christians could be made up for through his other illicit activities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Put our livelihood at risk and we'll preserve it by taking back what is rightfully ours. If the Quraysh didn't want their caravans to be attacked, they should have thought twice before torturing, oppressing, and stealing from Muslims. Like all of those hostile to Islam, of course, they were eventually subdued.
Click to expand...


Muhammad was a member of the Quraysh.  The Quraysh simply wanted to practice their religion in Mecca in peace, which Muhammad would not tolerate.  Muhammad persecuted the Quraysh for not converting to Islam and they even begged his uncle, Abu Talib, to ask him to leave them alone in peace.  They said Muhammad could practice Islam in Mecca but they should be able to do so, as well.  Muhammad would not stand for it and persisted in harrassing the Meccans.   After leaving for Medina, he invaded Mecca to exact his vengeance.  Just as he did with the Jews.

Indeed, it was Muhammad and his pirates who attacked the caravans for their "booty", which Allah conveniently revealed to Muhamad was acceptable behavior, and it was Muhammad who murdered female intellectuals and poets who criticized his repressive and violent belief system and it was Muhammad who stole the land of Jews and Christians simply because they wished to practice their own religion.

Muhammad's attacks on caravans was necessary to obtain money for the expansion of Islam, which, ultimately, conquered much of Europe, Asia and Africa after his death.


----------



## Kalam

Charles Stucker said:


> So basically all the Islamic states that coerce people into converting are illegitimate states


Precisely. 



Charles Stucker said:


> and represent the drift from the true word,


Yes.



Charles Stucker said:


> which means there needs to be a new prophet to get them back on the right path,


Damn! You were on a roll! No, the message has already been finalized and delivered. We have only to put its words into action. 



Charles Stucker said:


> except there can be no more prophets because Mo didn't want the competition so he said so himself.
> 
> WOW and you still cannot see the hypocrisy inherent in Islam.


The hypocrisy is of your own imagining. The problem you identified has dominated Islamic political thought for nearly a century. From _Ma'alim fil Tariq_ ("Milestones"), an influential work by Sayyid Qutb:



			
				Qutb said:
			
		

> If we look at all the sources and foundations of modern ways of living, it becomes clear that the whole world is steeped in _jahiliyyah_ (ignorance of Islam), and all the marvelous material comforts and high-level inventions do not diminish this ignorance. This jahiliyyah is based on rebellion against God's sovereignty on earth. It transfers to man one of the greatest attributes of God, namely sovereignty, and makes some men lords over others. It is now not in that simple and primitive form of the ancient jahiliyyah, but takes the form of claiming that the right to create values, to legislate rules of collective behavior, and to choose any way of life rests with men, without regard to what God has prescribed. The result of this rebellion against the authority of God is the oppression of His creatures. Thus the humiliation of the common man under the communist systems and the exploitation of individuals under the capitalist systems are but a corollary of rebellion against God's authority and the denial of the dignity of man given to him by God.



I don't agree with him on every point, but he's famous for denying the legitimacy of self-styled "Islamic" states.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> And, death to those kafirs not wishing to live in a fascist Islamic state.


If "fascist" principles such as freedom of worship are disliked by those living in an Islamic state, nothing prevents them from leaving:
_Narrated Jabir: A bedouin came to the Prophet and said, "Please take my Pledge of allegiance to Islam." So the Prophet took from him the Pledge of allegiance to Islam. He came the next day with a fever and said to the Prophet, "Cancel my pledge." But the Prophet refused, and when the bedouin went away, the Prophet said, "Medina is like a pair of bellows: It expels its impurities and brightens and clears its good."_ - Sahih Bukhari, Judgments, no. 323​


Marc39 said:


> Freedom of conscience and conviction must also coincide with Islamic law.  Islam is Arabic for submission.  Muslims are those who have submitted.  There is no room for freedom of though in Islam.


Islam describes submission to the will of God, and God has ordained freedom of conscience and conviction. 



Marc39 said:


> Bernard Lewis, the foremost Islamic scholar of his time, edifies...


"Islamic scholar" describes an 'alim, a devout Muslim who has been thoroughly educated in Shari'ah and other matters of religious significance in order to address various Islamic issues. Bernard Lewis is an orientalist, and although he is notable among his dying breed, his perceptions of Islam mean little to us. I can assure you that no Muslim would use a non-believer's musings as the basis for any piece of legislation or legal interpretation in an Islamic state.


----------



## Charles Stucker

Kalam said:


> The hypocrisy is of your own imagining.


Call it like I see it.
Judaism became corrupt, thus prophet Jesus.
Christianity became corrupt, thus prophet Mohamed. 
But Islam becomes corrupt and suddenly no more prophets?
This IS the essence of the Islamic rationale is it not? That only the most recent prophet represents the *true* word of god. How convenient for Mohamed's posterity that he remembered to exclude the possibility that a corrupt regime of Islam would see yet another prophet. 
Yet such a  prophet would make more sense than not. 

The other possibility is that Mohamed was a fraud from the start. Then there is no internal inconsistency, rather everything holds together as a compilation of what were at that time perceived as memes to keep a society functioning for centuries. Of course the *true believer* doesn't care about that they just believe. I wonder what happens when they die and have been wrong their whole life? Do they get a refund?


----------



## Jos

> When the shooting started Adlan Mutsaev and his friends were in the woods picking garlic. They had arrived in the forest earlier that day, together with a group of neighbours travelling in a battered coach. The plan had been straightforward: stuff their sacks, enjoy the countryside, and then head back home to the Chechen town of Achkoi-Martan.
> 
> Without warning, Russian commandos hiding behind a hillock opened fire.Adlan, 16, was with his brother Arbi, 19, and their friends Shamil Kataev, 19, and Movsar Tataev, 19. Shamil and Movsar were both wounded. Adlan was shot in the leg, but managed to hobble into a ditch. He hid. Arbi also attempted to flee, but men in camouflage fatigues caught up with him.
> 
> According to the human rights group Memorial, Arbi was forced to drag his two wounded and bleeding friends across the snow. Shamil begged for his life. But the solders were impervious. They placed a blindfold over Arbi's eyes. And then they opened fire: executing Shamil and Movsar on the spot.


Massacre in woods that brought war to Moscow's metro | World news | The Guardian


----------



## AllieBaba

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forget yourself. Big Mo was the Profit from God. Without someone to victimize how can their be any profit.
> 
> I suppose some might try hard work and ingenuity, but those seem, to be lacking among jihadists who would prefer violence and loot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mo made a lot of money hijacking caravans and stealing land and booty, so, the loss of some jizya as a consequence of expulsions of Jews and Christians could be made up for through his other illicit activities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Put our livelihood at risk and we'll preserve it by taking back what is rightfully ours. If the Quraysh didn't want their caravans to be attacked, they should have thought twice before torturing, oppressing, and stealing from Muslims. Like all of those hostile to Islam, of course, they were eventually subdued.
Click to expand...


The problem is, you think everything is rightfully yours.


----------



## CurveLight

Marc39 said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean, you are unable to prove how wrong I am.   Because, I am correct.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then explain these verses from the Bible.  Since you are obviously an expert it would be an insult to cite chapter and verses.  I'm sure you know exactly where these are...
> 
> 
> (a covenant)
> "They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."
> 
> And....
> 
> 
> (if someone worships a foreign god)
> "If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Judaism strictly forbids forced conversions or proselytizing of any kind of non-Jews, thus, your quotes are invalid.   Non-Jews expressing an interest in conversion must prove a genuine desire to do so and then must undergo an extensive education process into Judaism.
> 
> In contrast, anyone wishing to convert to Christianity or Islam can do so merely by saying Christ is their savior or that Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet.
> 
> Don't decide later to convert out of Islam as the penalty for apostasy is death.
Click to expand...



You ignored the texts as suspected because you are a hack bigot who doesn't have the first fuxxing clue.


----------



## Munin

CurveLight said:


> The economist?  I won't click on that link.  I breezed through the bullshit and you've just danced.   You switched your position and now the best you can do is the economist that points out veils were.......banned.  I respect your attempt to justify your bigotry but if you have to work so hard to try and justify it......what does that say?



Nothing, I based my opinion on real event like this one. But the official source was in dutch language and I don't expect you to comprehend that, that is why I didn't start out with a specific example from the beginning (I didn't have the enlish version of it).

just yesterday another event like this happened in belgium



> Benno Barnard wanted peaceful academic atmosphere a lecture on Islam. But he was silenced by a bunch of screaming, fist waving Belgian Muslims. Lecture canceled. Another goal Islam reached: gag free speech in the West.


 I translated the main issue for you  http://www.joostniemoller.com/2010/04/belgische-moslims-smoren-benno-barnard/ (I ll give you an enlish version if I find one)

ah, but appearantly I don't need to show the belgian example, there is an american one as well about how muslims treat free speech: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsdtafcbqrE&feature=player_embedded[/ame]


Or historical events, like the modernisation of Turkey also give an example of how the weakening of Islam brought it wealth and prosperity. 

Ataturk Quote About Islam


> Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, founder of the Republic of Turkey: Through the abusive interpretation of ignorant and filthy priests ... Islam, this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives


 http://www.joostniemoller.com/2010/04/belgische-moslims-smoren-benno-barnard/


In theory many fanatic muslims claim that Islam will bring them the perfect world if everyone would abide by their book, yet they ignore the reality that muslims are the poorest inhabitants of this planet (besides the ones who exploit their religion to have power over others, the people Attaturk mentioned).


----------



## CurveLight

Munin said:


> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> The economist?  I won't click on that link.  I breezed through the bullshit and you've just danced.   You switched your position and now the best you can do is the economist that points out veils were.......banned.  I respect your attempt to justify your bigotry but if you have to work so hard to try and justify it......what does that say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing, I based my opinion on real event like this one. But the official source was in dutch language and I don't expect you to comprehend that, that is why I didn't start out with a specific example from the beginning (I didn't have the enlish version of it).
> 
> just yesterday another event like this happened in belgium
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Benno Barnard wanted peaceful academic atmosphere a lecture on Islam. But he was silenced by a bunch of screaming, fist waving Belgian Muslims. Lecture canceled. Another goal Islam reached: gag free speech in the West.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I translated the main issue for you  Joost Niemöller  Belgische Moslims smoren Benno Barnard (update) (I ll give you an enlish version if I find one)
> 
> Or historical events, like the modernisation of Turkey also give an example of how the weakening of Islam brought it wealth and prosperity.
> 
> Ataturk Quote About Islam
> 
> 
> 
> Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, founder of the Republic of Turkey: Through the abusive interpretation of ignorant and filthy priests ... Islam, this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Joost Niemöller  Belgische Moslims smoren Benno Barnard (update)
> 
> 
> In theory many fanatic muslims claim that Islam will bring them the perfect world if everyone would abide by their book, yet they ignore the reality that muslims are the poorest inhabitants of this planet (besides the ones who exploit their religion to have power over others, the people Attaturk mentioned).
Click to expand...


Use your brain.  You keep cherry picking trying to extrapolate a minor amount of incidents (exaggerated?) to claim the majority of muslims hold extremist views.  It would be like saying the majority of Christians support sex offenders over children because a letter was put out telling priests to keep church investigations of pedophiles a secret or be excommunicated.


----------



## Charles Stucker

CurveLight said:


> You keep cherry picking trying to extrapolate a minor amount of incidents (exaggerated?) to claim the majority of muslims hold extremist views.  It would be like saying the majority of Christians support sex offenders over children because a letter was put out telling priests to keep church investigations of pedophiles a secret or be excommunicated.



Perhaps he's only met internet Muslims, you know the ones who really *WANT* to blow things up but lack the balls.


----------



## Munin

And then muslims wonder why people hate Islam? I guess the "moderate" muslim repons to this will be silent as usual. Here is one forum reaction that confirms my opinion about how this makes people hate Islam/muslims.



> This is why we hate Islam:
> 
> Dozens of young immigrants made a riot in an auditorium of
> University of Antwerp (UA). The famous Dutch writer Benno Barnard
> would give a lecture on Islam. That lecture was canceled at the result of this intervention.
> 
> 
> At the invitation of the freeminded organisation of the UA (University of Antwerp)  Benno Barnard (photo) known for his criticism of Islam would give a lecture with the provocing title "Long live God. Away with Allah. "
> 
> Barnard: "There were eighty people in the room, half of whom were in robes.
> I was not even two sentences long when someone shouted "you're making jokes about Islam '. Then the whole group yelled "Allah Akhbar" (God is great)
> . "The people then stormed the stage.
> 
> The police, though discreet presence on the City Campus of the University, called reinforcements. The organization stopped the debate. No one was arrested. Barnard is deeply disappointed. "Without the police and my bodyguards I was now in hospital. "


 (translated from this link) Benno Barnard bijna gemolesteerd door Belgische moslims van sharia4belgium - be.politics | Google Groups 

This represents one of the many (hundreds) posts by native belgiums (the muslims in belgium and other parts of western europe are all immigrants or descendants that came there over the last 50 years) about this recent event. It shows how muslims (the extremist ones) are never opposed by moderate muslims speaking out against them: as usual they are silent and obviously many are sick of it, that would include me.


----------



## Munin

Charles Stucker said:


> Perhaps he's only met internet Muslims, you know the ones who really *WANT* to blow things up but lack the balls.



No, as I indicated in my previous posts I know real people who are muslims and who I like. But as I also said in that post, I do not like them for their religion but for their human qualities.


It s just that events like that really annoy me and sadly they happen all the time in certain countries.


----------



## Charles Stucker

Munin said:


> It shows how muslims (the extremist ones) are never opposed by moderate muslims speaking out against them: as usual they are silent and obviously many are sick of it, that would include me.


Then speak out more and don't make excuses for their actions. Kalam has a track record of "But it is holy Jihad" as his standard response to *EVERY* Islamic atrocity. He tries to sound scholarly but all he ends up sounding is an enabler. One of the Ballless wonders who frequent the internet and talk about how great Islam is and how it will overtake and blah, blah, blah.


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically all the Islamic states that coerce people into converting are illegitimate states
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely.
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> and represent the drift from the true word,
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> Damn! You were on a roll! No, the message has already been finalized and delivered. We have only to put its words into action.
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> except there can be no more prophets because Mo didn't want the competition so he said so himself.
> 
> WOW and you still cannot see the hypocrisy inherent in Islam.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The hypocrisy is of your own imagining. The problem you identified has dominated Islamic political thought for nearly a century. From _Ma'alim fil Tariq_ ("Milestones"), an influential work by Sayyid Qutb:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Qutb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we look at all the sources and foundations of modern ways of living, it becomes clear that the whole world is steeped in _jahiliyyah_ (ignorance of Islam), and all the marvelous material comforts and high-level inventions do not diminish this ignorance. This jahiliyyah is based on rebellion against God's sovereignty on earth. It transfers to man one of the greatest attributes of God, namely sovereignty, and makes some men lords over others. It is now not in that simple and primitive form of the ancient jahiliyyah, but takes the form of claiming that the right to create values, to legislate rules of collective behavior, and to choose any way of life rests with men, without regard to what God has prescribed. The result of this rebellion against the authority of God is the oppression of His creatures. Thus the humiliation of the common man under the communist systems and the exploitation of individuals under the capitalist systems are but a corollary of rebellion against God's authority and the denial of the dignity of man given to him by God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't agree with him on every point, but he's famous for denying the legitimacy of self-styled "Islamic" states.
Click to expand...


Qutb is more famous as the spiritual godfather of bin Ladin and radical Islam.  It is his book, "Our Struggle With The Jews," written in 1956, that is a major contributing factor in Muslim hatred of Jews today.


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> Munin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> The economist?  I won't click on that link.  I breezed through the bullshit and you've just danced.   You switched your position and now the best you can do is the economist that points out veils were.......banned.  I respect your attempt to justify your bigotry but if you have to work so hard to try and justify it......what does that say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing, I based my opinion on real event like this one. But the official source was in dutch language and I don't expect you to comprehend that, that is why I didn't start out with a specific example from the beginning (I didn't have the enlish version of it).
> 
> just yesterday another event like this happened in belgium
> 
> I translated the main issue for you  Joost Niemöller  Belgische Moslims smoren Benno Barnard (update) (I ll give you an enlish version if I find one)
> 
> Or historical events, like the modernisation of Turkey also give an example of how the weakening of Islam brought it wealth and prosperity.
> 
> Ataturk Quote About Islam
> 
> 
> 
> Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, founder of the Republic of Turkey: Through the abusive interpretation of ignorant and filthy priests ... Islam, this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Joost Niemöller  Belgische Moslims smoren Benno Barnard (update)
> 
> 
> In theory many fanatic muslims claim that Islam will bring them the perfect world if everyone would abide by their book, yet they ignore the reality that muslims are the poorest inhabitants of this planet (besides the ones who exploit their religion to have power over others, the people Attaturk mentioned).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Use your brain.  You keep cherry picking trying to extrapolate a minor amount of incidents (exaggerated?) to claim the majority of muslims hold extremist views.  It would be like saying the majority of Christians support sex offenders over children because a letter was put out telling priests to keep church investigations of pedophiles a secret or be excommunicated.
Click to expand...


You have no idea what the views are of the majority of Muslims.  Many who do not commit jihad likely agree with jihad but cannot act upon their beliefs.  Others are engaged in internal debate over the virtues of jihad.  Others are merely secular, but, not true Muslims in the eye of Allah.

The fact is, however, that bin Ladin is a true Muslim in following the exact word of the God of the Koran.  And, according to Islamic doctrine, bin Ladin will go directly to Paradise for doing so.


----------



## Marc39

CurveLight said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CurveLight said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then explain these verses from the Bible.  Since you are obviously an expert it would be an insult to cite chapter and verses.  I'm sure you know exactly where these are...
> 
> 
> (a covenant)
> "They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman."
> 
> And....
> 
> 
> (if someone worships a foreign god)
> "If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judaism strictly forbids forced conversions or proselytizing of any kind of non-Jews, thus, your quotes are invalid.   Non-Jews expressing an interest in conversion must prove a genuine desire to do so and then must undergo an extensive education process into Judaism.
> 
> In contrast, anyone wishing to convert to Christianity or Islam can do so merely by saying Christ is their savior or that Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet.
> 
> Don't decide later to convert out of Islam as the penalty for apostasy is death.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You ignored the texts as suspected because you are a hack bigot who doesn't have the first fuxxing clue.
Click to expand...


Your outbursts are insipid and amount to spam.


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

Kalam said:


> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't aware that we were discussing your lobotomy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Any time.
Click to expand...


No problem, it was a winning cleaver insult, Unfortunately,  thats all you have .


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> Muhammad was a member of the Quraysh.


By lineage, yes, and a member of the Banu Hashim at that. Tribal affiliations mean nothing compared to one's status as a Muslim, however. 



Marc39 said:


> The Quraysh simply wanted to practice their religion in Mecca in peace,


The Quraysh could not tolerate criticism of their false religion and responded to words with violence:

_"When the apostle openly displayed Islam as God ordered him his people did not withdraw or turn against him, so far as I have heard, until he spoke disparagingly of their gods. When he did that they took great offense and resolved unanimously to treat him as an enemy, except those whom God had protected by Islam from such evil, but they were a despised minority."_ - Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, 166-167​


Marc39 said:


> which Muhammad would not tolerate.  Muhammad persecuted the Quraysh for not converting to Islam and they even begged his uncle, Abu Talib, to ask him to leave them alone in peace. They said Muhammad could practice Islam in Mecca but they should be able to do so, as well.


The Quraysh begged Abu Talib to let them kill Muhammad for criticizing their religion:

_"They said, 'O Abu Talib, your nephew has cursed our gods, insulted our religion, mocked our way of life, and accused our forefathers of error; *either you must stop him or you must let us get at him*, for you yourself are in the same position as we are in opposition to him and we will rid you of him.' He gave them a conciliatory reply and a soft answer and they went away."_ - Ibn Ishaq, 167-168​
Islam and Muhammad (SAWS) were persecuted because they were contrary to the pagan barbarism that prevailed in Makkan society at the time.



Marc39 said:


> Muhammad would not stand for it and persisted in harrassing the Meccans.


_"The apostle continued on his way, publishing God's religion and calling men thereto. In consequence his relations with the Quraysh deteriorated and men withdrew from him in enmity. They were always talking about him and inciting one another against him. Then they went to Abu Talib a second time and said, 'You have a high and lofty position among us, and we have asked you to put a stop to your nephew's activities but you have not done so. By God, we cannot endure that our fathers should be reviled, our customs mocked and our gods insulted. Until you rid us of him we will fight the pair of you until one side perishes,' or words to that effect. Abu Talib was deeply distressed at the breach with his people and their enmity but he could not desert the apostle and give him up to them."_ - Ibn Ishaq, 168

_"Then the Quraysh incited people against the companions of the apostle that had become Muslims. Every tribe fell upon the Muslims among them, beating them and seducing them from their religion."_ - 170

_"While they were talking thus the apostle appeared, and they leaped upon him as one man and encircled him, saying, 'Are you the one who said so-and-so against our gods and our religion?' The apostle said, 'Yes, I am the one who said that.' And I saw one of them seize his robe. Then Abu Bakr interposed himself, weeping and saying, 'Would you kill a man for saying Allah is my Lord?' Then they left him... Abu Bakr returned that day with the hair of his head torn. He was a hairy man and they had dragged him along by his beard."_ - 184

_"The apostle had gone back to his house when he (Hamza ibn 'Abd al-Muttalib) passed by this woman, who asked him if he had heard of what Abu'l-Hakam ibn Hisham had done just recently to his (Hamza's) nephew, Muhammad; how he had found him sitting quietly there, and insulted him, and cursed him, and treated him badly, and that Muhammad had not answered a word."_ - 185

_"Islam began to spread in Makkah among men and women of the tribes of Quraysh, though Quraysh were imprisoning and seducing as many of the Muslims as they could."_ - 187

_"Then he ('Abdullah ibn Mas'ud) turned towards them as he read so that they noticed him, and they said, 'What on earth is this son of a slave-woman saying?' And when they realized that he was reading some of what Muhammad prayed, they got up and began to hit him in the face; but he continued to read so far as God willed that he should read. Then he went to his companions with the marks of their blows on his face. They said, 'This is just what we feared would happen to you.' He said, 'God's enemies were never more contemptible in my sight than they are now, and if you like I will go and do the same thing before them tomorrow.' They said, 'No, you have done enough, you have made them listen to what they don't want to hear.'" _- 202-203

_"Then the Quraysh showed their enmity to all those who followed the apostle; every clan which contained Muslims attacked them, imprisoning them, and beating them, allowing them no food or drink, and exposing them to the burning heat of Makkah, so as to seduce them from their religion. Some gave way under pressure of persecution, and others resisted them, being protected by God. Bilal, who was afterwards freed by Abu Bakr but at that time belonged to one of B. Jumah being slave-born, was a faithful Muslim, pure of heart. His father's name was Ribah and his mother was Hamama. Umayya ibn Khalaf ibn Wahb ibn Hudhafa ibn Jumah used to bring him out at the hottest part of the day and throw him on his back in the open valley and have a great rock put on his chest; then he would say to him, 'You will stay here until you die or deny Muhammad and worship al-Lat and al-Uzza.' He used to say while he was enduring this, 'One, one!' (expressing belief in one God.)" _- 205

_"The B. Makhzum used to take out 'Ammar ibn Yasir with his father and mother, who were Muslims, in the heat of the day and expose them to the heat of Makkah, and the Apostle passed by them and said, so I have hear, "Patience, O family of Yasir! Your meeting-place will be Paradise.' They killed his mother, for she refused to abandon Islam. It was that evil man Abu Jahl who stirred up the Makkans against them. When he heard that a man had become a Muslim, if he was a man of social importance and had relations to defend him, he reprimanded him and poured scorn on him, saying, 'You have forsaken the religion of your father who was better than you. We will declare you a blockhead and brand you as a fool, and destroy your reputation.' If he was a merchant he said, 'We will boycott your goods and reduce you to beggary.' If he was a person of no social importance, he beat him and incited people against him... I said to 'Abdullah ibn 'Abbas, 'Were the polytheists treating them so badly that apostasy was excusable?' 'Yes, by God, they were,' he said, 'they used to beat one of them, depriving him of food and drink so that he could hardly sit upright because of the violence they had used on him, so that in the end he would do whatever they said.'"_ - 206-207​
Shall I continue?



Marc39 said:


> After leaving for Medina, he invaded Mecca to exact his vengeance.


The hijra to Madinah followed a smaller hijra of a few Muslims to Abyssinia; the Quraysh followed the Muslim emigrants all the way there simply so that they could bring them back by force and oppress them once more. The hijra to Makkah was undertaken by a far larger number of Muslims, including Muhammad (SAWS), in order to escape polytheist oppression once and for all. His reputation as a fair-minded settler of disputes earned him an invitation to the city by the Madinan community. The raids on Makkan caravans were not approved of by Muhammad (SAWS) until it was discovered that the Quraysh had been stealing and selling the property that Muslims had been forced to leave behind in Makkah. Tensions escalated and the Makkan army was eventually routed by a smaller and more ill-equipped force of believers, who went on to take Makkah.



Marc39 said:


> and it was Muhammad who murdered female intellectuals and poets who criticized his repressive and violent belief system


Nobody was killed who did not incite violence against Muhammad (SAWS) or the community of believers. That is the recompense for those who threaten the existence of Islam. 



Marc39 said:


> and it was Muhammad who stole the land of Jews and Christians simply because they wished to practice their own religion.


War was not initiated with any group that did not declare hostility towards Islam or support others against it. If you can cite specific examples of this taking place, I'll be happy to clarify.


----------



## Kalam

AllieBaba said:


> The problem is, you think everything is rightfully yours.



In this case, I was referring to the personal property of individual Muslims.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> The fact is, however, that bin Ladin is a true Muslim in following the exact word of the God of the Koran.  And, according to Islamic doctrine, bin Ladin will go directly to Paradise for doing so.


Wrong. Targeting women, children, the elderly, etc. is expressly forbidden by scripture and authentic tradition. The same goes for targeting and killing Muslims, something al-Qa'idah does without remorse. They intended to establish a "base" for international jihad; the base they established is one for spreading fasad and hirabah.


----------



## Kalam

Kalam said:


> Call it like I see it.
> Judaism became corrupt, thus prophet Jesus.
> Christianity became corrupt, thus prophet Mohamed.
> But Islam becomes corrupt and suddenly no more prophets?
> This IS the essence of the Islamic rationale is it not? That only the most recent prophet represents the *true* word of god.


The Torah and Gospels were corrupted over time because faith grew dim and people failed to preserve them properly. False beliefs and practices were inserted into scripture that contradicted the true teachings of Musa (AS), 'Isa (AS), and others, making a new revelation necessary. Moreover, each messenger had hitherto been assigned to spread the word of God among a certain nation or people; the message delivered by Muhammad (SAWS) was for all of humankind. The true word of God was made clear and final in the Qur'an, which was memorized and/or recorded by hundreds of people as it was recited and compiled soon after the death of Muhammad. It remains unchanged and uncorrupted to this day, so no new messenger is necessary. This is Islam, you believe whatever you think to be true.


----------



## Kalam

Charles Stucker said:


> Kalam has a track record of "But it is holy Jihad" as his standard response to *EVERY* Islamic atrocity.


I'll assume that you took a vacation from USMB during the Ft. Hood shootings and virtually every operation carried out by al-Qa'idah. 



Charles Stucker said:


> He tries to sound scholarly but all he ends up sounding is an enabler. One of the Ballless wonders who frequent the internet and talk about how great Islam is and how it will overtake and blah, blah, blah.


At the moment, my religious priority is continuing with my education. Only God knows what the future has in store.


----------



## Kalam

Mr.Fitnah said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr.Fitnah said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No problem, it was a winning cleaver insult, Unfortunately,  thats all you have .
Click to expand...


To be honest, it's the only type of response that most of your posts warrant.


----------



## Kalam

*Update: *

Ansar al-Jihad and Kavkaz Center have provided an English translation of a somewhat recent video of the Amir answering questions:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE2920NfO_A]YouTube - *NEW* Intervieuw Amir of Islamic Emirate of Caucas Dokka Umarov(hafidahullah)[/ame]

Transcript:



			
				Ansar al-Mujahideen English Forums said:
			
		

> Amir of the Caucasus Emirate
> 
> Dokka Abu Uthman
> 
> "There are thousands of Mujahideen in the Caucasus!"
> 
> February 19th 2010​
> I seek refuge with Allah from the Satan the Accursed.
> 
> In the Name of Allah, the Most Kind, the Most Merciful,
> 
> Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds! Peace and blessings be upon our Prophet, his family, and his Companions on the true path.
> 
> I am the Amir of the Caucasian Mujahideen, Dokka Umarov.
> 
> I have received some questions which the brothers have asked me to reply to.
> 
> And, Allah willing, with the help and the will of Allah, I will try to answer these questions.
> 
> The first question concerns the rhetoric on Russian TV, radio and other media outlets about the "elimination" of me personally, and the "elimination of all Mujahideen in the Caucasus", and the allegations that "this is last winter for the Mujahideen."
> 
> This question I would like to answer for both the well-wishers and the ill-wishers.
> 
> To the ill-wishers I say: "Wipe your snot!"
> 
> For the well-wishers, brothers, I would answer the question this way: we are all mortal. Human life is in the hands of Allah. And if the Almighty wants to summon me, I will, Allah willing, be ready for that. The Almighty alone decides when the soul is ordered to leave this world.
> 
> The main thing for me is that my soul is the soul of a free man, and that my soul leaves this world without humiliation.
> 
> Humiliation means a disbelief for my soul. In this world, my body would kneel only before the Almighty. Allah willing, the main thing for the people is to know that everyone must be ready for his death. And I believe that, Allah willing, I am ready for it.
> 
> Every day I spend in this world brings disappointment to those Muslims, who because of their slumber, because of their sleep, the hypnosis that has been thrust upon them, lost the greatness of Islam.
> 
> Praise be to Allah that we are not among them!
> 
> Putin's Kafirovs (AKA Kadyrovs) and some others of Putin's dogs say that for us, the Mujahideen, "it is the last winter". These words are the same words of mendacious dogs that we have been hearing for the past 11 years.
> 
> Praise be to Allah, so this winter, too, comes to an end.
> 
> There were a lot of such winters. All the talk of these dogs come from their impotence. The master beats the dog on the rump with a stick and makes demands. And in order to satisfy their masters in the Kremlin, the dogs bark in every direction. Therefore we will not pay attention to them.
> 
> Only Allah decides when we leave this world. Praise be to Allah, the main thing is that our luggage is to be filled with deeds pleasing to Allah in order to get a reward for our deeds on this earth, to gain Paradise. Allah willing, let's hope for this, and do the Jihad.
> 
> 
> The second question concerns the creation by Russia of a so-called North Caucasian District and the exclusion of the Krasnodar Territory from it. Basically, I would answer this question that way that I do not care about their petty intrigues. I don't give a damn what "districts" they create, what obligations they take, what changes in their government they make, what "presidents" they appoint.
> 
> This is a policy of the infidels, a policy of our enemy. But in this issue, I would like to stress one important thing: through the creation of the "North Caucasus District" the Kremlin wants to show that the Krasnodar Territory does not belong the Caucasus. The Krasnodar Territory, as infidels call it, is in fact the land of our brothers, the best brothers and the best Muslims in this world. This is the land of Adygs, the land of Abazins, the land of Circassians.
> 
> So I want to state with full responsibility, and I bequeath it to the Mujahideen who will come after us, Allah willing, they will come, there is no doubt about it, that this is the land of our brothers. And it is our sacred duty to liberate these lands from infidelity. And, Allah willing, we will do it - we will achieve this goal!
> 
> Therefore, we will never exclude a Caucasian land from the Caucasus. Moreover, after we liberate the land of our brothers, co-religionists and Caucasian Muslims, we will, Allah willing, liberate other lands that are now occupied by Russia. They are Astrakhan and the Volga lands that are now under the heel of the Russian infidels.
> 
> Therefore, Allah willing, we are not going to exclude the lands of our brothers the Adygs, Abazins and Circassians from the Caucasus.
> 
> 
> The third question which concerns our brothers is a question about the number of the Mujahideen.
> 
> My answer to brothers is that we in the Caucasus are in such numbers that it is possible to say today that there are 10,000, 20,000, and 30,000 Mujahideen. This is true, dear brothers.
> 
> Today, by the will of Allah and to the delight of Muslims, all praise be to Allah, young men are very active, and so conscious that they understand that the Islamic Ummah can be liberated only with weapons through Jihad from the slavery of infidels.
> 
> We therefore have armed as many as is allowed by our means, our resources and our finances. Today we do not have enough means for all the Mujahideen who want to go to the Jihad for the sake of raising the Word of Allah on the Earth, for the sake of the liberation of the Ummah.
> 
> Neither our means, nor our resources permit us to provide arms to all the prospective Mujahideen who would like to go to Jihad. That is why I again ask the brothers not to worry about the numbers. Numbers are like sorcery, and people practice witchcraft with these figures.
> 
> I say to you: today there are enough Mujahideen who are needed for the Jihad at this moment. And if we are true slaves of Allah, then our situation will be determined by the will of the Almighty.
> 
> Today Allah wants to keep us at this level. By His will, Allah willing, the Almighty is able to quickly change this situation, and this is our hope and expectation Allah willing. So the number of the Mujahideen are sufficient today.
> 
> And if there are funds, if there are resources, Allah willing, the number of Mujahideen could be increased five or ten-fold. There is no doubt about that.
> 
> And our final prayer is that all praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds!
> 
> Peace be upon you, and the Mercy of Allah, and His Blessings.
> 
> Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!



If and when a translation of his video claiming responsibility for the attacks appears, I'll post it here.


----------



## Charles Stucker

Kalam said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Call it like I see it.
> Judaism became corrupt, thus prophet Jesus.
> Christianity became corrupt, thus prophet Mohamed.
> But Islam becomes corrupt and suddenly no more prophets?
> This IS the essence of the Islamic rationale is it not? That only the most recent prophet represents the *true* word of god.
> 
> 
> 
> The Torah and Gospels were corrupted over time because faith grew dim and people failed to preserve them properly. False beliefs and practices were inserted into scripture that contradicted the true teachings of Musa (AS), 'Isa (AS), and others, making a new revelation necessary. Moreover, each messenger had hitherto been assigned to spread the word of God among a certain nation or people; the message delivered by Muhammad (SAWS) was for all of humankind. The true word of God was made clear and final in the Qur'an, which was memorized and/or recorded by hundreds of people as it was recited and compiled soon after the death of Muhammad. It remains unchanged and uncorrupted to this day, so no new messenger is necessary. This is Islam, you believe whatever you think to be true.
Click to expand...


You mean like the false belief inserted into Islamic scripture that murdering lots of "enemies of god" gets you into Valhalla?
Got it.
So when is the next profit (sic) due?


----------



## Kalam

Charles Stucker said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Call it like I see it.
> Judaism became corrupt, thus prophet Jesus.
> Christianity became corrupt, thus prophet Mohamed.
> But Islam becomes corrupt and suddenly no more prophets?
> This IS the essence of the Islamic rationale is it not? That only the most recent prophet represents the *true* word of god.
> 
> 
> 
> The Torah and Gospels were corrupted over time because faith grew dim and people failed to preserve them properly. False beliefs and practices were inserted into scripture that contradicted the true teachings of Musa (AS), 'Isa (AS), and others, making a new revelation necessary. Moreover, each messenger had hitherto been assigned to spread the word of God among a certain nation or people; the message delivered by Muhammad (SAWS) was for all of humankind. The true word of God was made clear and final in the Qur'an, which was memorized and/or recorded by hundreds of people as it was recited and compiled soon after the death of Muhammad. It remains unchanged and uncorrupted to this day, so no new messenger is necessary. This is Islam, you believe whatever you think to be true.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You mean like the false belief inserted into Islamic scripture that murdering lots of "enemies of god" gets you into Valhalla?
> Got it.
> So when is the next profit (sic) due?
Click to expand...


_Whomsoever Allah leaves in error, there is no guide for him. And He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on._ - 7:186​


----------



## Mr.Fitnah

> War was not initiated with any group that did not declare hostility towards Islam or support others against it


. 
Islam reaps what it sows.


----------



## Kalam

Update (rebel source):



			
				Kavkaz Center said:
			
		

> Moscow unwilling to recognize the might of Emir Dokka Umarov
> 
> The security committee of the Russian state duma believes that Doku Umarov has nothing to do with the Martyr operations in Moscow subway and is just making a PR campaign by taking responsibility for them.
> 
> "A claim by Doku Umarov about his involvement in the terrorist attacks in the Moscow metro must be checked", Gennady Gudkov, deputy chairman of the security committee in the state duma, said to the Russian radio station Echo of Moscow.
> 
> "We are well aware that this may be a PR campaign. Using the incidents, he could show that he has some might, or it may be that is is really responsible. Now the terrorists and their circle are to be exposed, whether they are or not related to Umarov", said the KGB duma deputy.
> 
> Curiously, before the video statement by Doku Umarov was made available in YouTube, the Russian secret services were claiming, without any evidence for it, that Dokku Abu Usman is responsible for the bombings.
> 
> http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2010/04/01/11772.shtml


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Torah and Gospels were corrupted over time because faith grew dim and people failed to preserve them properly. False beliefs and practices were inserted into scripture that contradicted the true teachings of Musa (AS), 'Isa (AS), and others, making a new revelation necessary. Moreover, each messenger had hitherto been assigned to spread the word of God among a certain nation or people; the message delivered by Muhammad (SAWS) was for all of humankind. The true word of God was made clear and final in the Qur'an, which was memorized and/or recorded by hundreds of people as it was recited and compiled soon after the death of Muhammad. It remains unchanged and uncorrupted to this day, so no new messenger is necessary. This is Islam, you believe whatever you think to be true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like the false belief inserted into Islamic scripture that murdering lots of "enemies of god" gets you into Valhalla?
> Got it.
> So when is the next profit (sic) due?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Whomsoever Allah leaves in error, there is no guide for him. And He leaves them alone in their inordinacy, blindly wandering on._ - 7:186​
Click to expand...


Bukhari 4:52:220...


> Jihad is holy violence. Violence is the way Allah removes fitna [disagreement], removes the dross from pure Islam and removes the infidel scum from the earth which is owned by Mohammed



Quran 3:151...


> We shall strike terror into the hearts of the kafirs [nonbelievers] because they worship others besides Allah, which He gave them no permission to do.  Their home will be on Fire, a terrible resting place for the evil-doers.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> Bukhari 4:52:220...
> 
> 
> 
> Jihad is holy violence. Violence is the way Allah removes fitna [disagreement], removes the dross from pure Islam and removes the infidel scum from the earth which is owned by Mohammed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quran 3:151...
> 
> 
> 
> We shall strike terror into the hearts of the kafirs [nonbelievers] because they worship others besides Allah, which He gave them no permission to do.  Their home will be on Fire, a terrible resting place for the evil-doers.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


_Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions carrying the broadest meanings, and I have been made victorious with awe (cast into the hearts of Islam's enemies), and while I was sleeping, the keys to the world's treasures were brought to me and placed in my hand." Abu Huraira added, "Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures."_ - Sahih Bukhari, Jihad, no. 220

_We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust._ - 3:51​
Perhaps you feel it necessary to misrepresent Islamic scripture because you know, in the back of your mind, that it's true.


----------



## Kalam

Update (rebel source):



			
				Kavkaz Center said:
			
		

> Mujahideen derail train in Dagestan Province of the Caucasus Emirate
> Publication time: Today at 10:40 Emirate time​
> An explosion has derailed a cargo train in Dagestan province of the Caucasus Emirate, causing damage to the freight train.
> 
> Eight wagons of the train have been derailed near the village of Pervomaiskoye at 4:05 am (0005 GMT) on Sunday, due to the blast that came about due to the detonation of an explosive device planted on a railway line in rural areas of Dagestan.
> 
> The early Sunday incident occurred around the Inchkhe station in Dagestan's Karabudakhkentsky district. There were no injured or dead. Sunday's blast left a 3.5-meter-wide crater on the railbed and damaged some 300 meters of track.
> 
> Mujahideen derail train in Dagestan Province of the Caucasus Emirate - Kavkazcenter.com


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bukhari 4:52:220...
> 
> 
> 
> Jihad is holy violence. Violence is the way Allah removes fitna [disagreement], removes the dross from pure Islam and removes the infidel scum from the earth which is owned by Mohammed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quran 3:151...
> 
> 
> 
> We shall strike terror into the hearts of the kafirs [nonbelievers] because they worship others besides Allah, which He gave them no permission to do.  Their home will be on Fire, a terrible resting place for the evil-doers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions carrying the broadest meanings, and I have been made victorious with awe (cast into the hearts of Islam's enemies), and while I was sleeping, the keys to the world's treasures were brought to me and placed in my hand." Abu Huraira added, "Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures."_ - Sahih Bukhari, Jihad, no. 220
> 
> _We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust._ - 3:51​
> Perhaps you feel it necessary to misrepresent Islamic scripture because you know, in the back of your mind, that it's true.
Click to expand...


Quoting Quran 8:39...


> So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the entire world).


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the entire world).





"Fitnah" doesn't mean disbelief:
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Quran Dictionary

Also, see:
_And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing. And if they intend to deceive you-- then surely Allah is sufficient for you; He it is Who strengthened you with His help and with the believers._ - 8:61-62​


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the entire world).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Fitnah" doesn't mean disbelief:
> The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Quran Dictionary
> 
> Also, see:
> _And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing. And if they intend to deceive you-- then surely Allah is sufficient for you; He it is Who strengthened you with His help and with the believers._ - 8:61-62​
Click to expand...


Fitnah has broad connotations, including disagreements, dissention and disbelief related to  Islamic doctrine.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> Fitnah has broad connotations, including disagreements, dissention and disbelief related to  Islamic doctrine.


Every instance of f-t-n in the Qu'ran and its precise meaning has been provided for you; it is not used to mean "disbelief" in any ayah. I wouldn't bother posting about Islam if I didn't commit myself to studying it every day.


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Marc39 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fitnah has broad connotations, including disagreements, dissention and disbelief related to  Islamic doctrine.
> 
> 
> 
> Every instance of f-t-n in the Qu'ran and its precise meaning has been provided for you; it is not used to mean "disbelief" in any ayah. I wouldn't bother posting about Islam if I didn't commit myself to studying it every day.
Click to expand...


The Quran has no precise meanings.  It's a jumbled mess of contradictions and bullshit.  Muhammad was illiterate, supposedly, and had to tell others the alleged revelations which they allegedly wrote down on rocks and leaves, leaving much room for errors and misunderstandings.   

Unless you're studying the Quran in 7th century classical Arabic, which most Muslims do not understand, including most Arabs, we're reading from the same Quran.  You're just blind to the viciousness and moral bankruptcy of the Quran.


----------



## Kalam

Marc39 said:


> The Quran has no precise meanings.  It's a jumbled mess of contradictions and bullshit.  Muhammad was illiterate, supposedly, and had to tell others the alleged revelations which they allegedly wrote down on rocks and leaves, leaving much room for errors and misunderstandings.
> 
> Unless you're studying the Quran in 7th century classical Arabic, which most Muslims do not understand, including most Arabs, we're reading from the same Quran.  You're just blind to the viciousness and moral bankruptcy of the Quran.



Since you apparently have nothing substantive to say, I'll leave you to your ramblings.


----------



## Charles Stucker

All those groups that take credit for bombings seem to immediately change their stance once they get caught. Want to bet the "Jihad Heroes" here will suddenly be "No I didn't *actually* do that" when they are brought to trial - rather like the coward who helped plan the Lockerbie bombing and now is off because of Cancer - showing the Scots are more humane than Islam.


----------



## Kalam

Update:



			
				Al Jazeera said:
			
		

> Police targeted in Ingushetia blast​
> At least two police officers have been killed in the Russian republic of Ingushetia after a suicide bomb went off near a police headquarters, officials have said.
> 
> The attacker is believed to have detonated a set of explosives after trying to enter the building in the town of Karabulak, which lies 20km from the capital, on Monday.
> 
> "A suicide bomber tried to get into the police headquarters during roll call, but after being stopped the bomber detonated the explosives," Oleg Yelnikov, an interior ministry spokesman, told the Reuters news agency.
> 
> Another spokesman told the RIA Novosti agency that the explosion would have "led to many deaths" had the attacker gained access to the morning gathering.
> 
> Less than an hour after the attack, a second bomb in a car opposite the police station was detonated, wounding an investigator of the local prosecutor's office.
> 
> The two blasts damaged the police headquarters and nearby houses, and destroyed several cars.
> 
> Al Jazeera English - Europe - Police targeted in Ingushetia blast



Rebel sources confirm.


----------



## Kalam

Charles Stucker said:


> All those groups that take credit for bombings seem to immediately change their stance once they get caught.


The Russian oppressors blamed the Caucasus Emirate before Dokka Umarov took responsibility, then denied that he was involved after his filmed confession of complicity was disseminated across the internet. Who is changing stances here?



Charles Stucker said:


> Want to bet the "Jihad Heroes" here will suddenly be "No I didn't *actually* do that" when they are brought to trial


"Brought to trial"? In Russia? 



Charles Stucker said:


> rather like the coward who helped plan the Lockerbie bombing and now is off because of Cancer - showing the Scots are more humane than Islam.


Because we all know that one Libyan is representative of an entire religion. Is this type of thick-headed thinking present in all critics of Islam? That would certainly explain a lot.


----------



## Charles Stucker

Kalam said:


> Because we all know that one Libyan is representative of an entire religion.


He is representative of the sort of Islamic cowards who use terrorism.


----------



## Munin

Muslims in the past/present were/are not the biggest humanitarian fans when it comes to treating non-muslims. The only reason I would protect muslims is because they re human, not because of their so called "peacefull religion": so don't use their religion as the reason why they should be protected to try to convince non-muslims.  And before you accuse me of something I do not support: I certainly do not support the bloodshed on non-violent muslim citizens.



> The history of political Islam starts with Mohammed&#8217;s immigration to Medina. From that point on, Islam&#8217;s appeal to the world has always had the dualistic option of joining a glorious religion or being the subject of political pressure and violence. After the immigration to Medina, Islam became violent when persuasion failed. Jihad entered the world.
> 
> After Mohammed&#8217;s death, Abu Bakr, the second caliph, settled the theological arguments of those who wished to leave Islam with the political action of death by the sword. The jihad of Umar (the second caliph, a pope-king) exploded into the world of the unbelievers. Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the Hindu to be the victims of jihad. The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
> 
> Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed.
> 
> The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great&#8217;s army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism.
> 
> Zoarasterianism was eliminated from Persia.
> 
> The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam.
> 
> In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.
> 
> Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school.


Islam: 270 Million Bodies in 1400 Years | Breaking News online by Social daily News

I think you re waging your religious jihad (with words) here, but Islam has already lost the "battle of morality" when its followers butchered 270 million nonbelievers during its existence. I m not saying that other religions are innocent of that, but I don't think I need to defend myself on that as I m not the one trying to protect people based upon their religious views.


----------



## Kalam

Munin said:


> Muslims in the past/present were/are not the biggest humanitarian fans when it comes to treating non-muslims. The only reason I would protect muslims is because they re human, not because of their so called "peacefull religion": so don't use their religion as the reason why they should be protected to try to convince non-muslims.  And before you accuse me of something I do not support: I certainly do not support the bloodshed on non-violent muslim citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The history of political Islam starts with Mohammeds immigration to Medina. From that point on, Islams appeal to the world has always had the dualistic option of joining a glorious religion or being the subject of political pressure and violence. After the immigration to Medina, Islam became violent when persuasion failed. Jihad entered the world.
> 
> After Mohammeds death, Abu Bakr, the second caliph, settled the theological arguments of those who wished to leave Islam with the political action of death by the sword. The jihad of Umar (the second caliph, a pope-king) exploded into the world of the unbelievers. Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the Hindu to be the victims of jihad. The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
> 
> Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed.
> 
> The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Greats army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism.
> 
> Zoarasterianism was eliminated from Persia.
> 
> The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam.
> 
> In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.
> 
> Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school.
> 
> 
> 
> Islam: 270 Million Bodies in 1400 Years | Breaking News online by Social daily News
> 
> I think you re waging your religious jihad (with words) here, but Islam has already lost the "battle of morality" when its followers butchered 270 million nonbelievers during its existence. I m not saying that other religions are innocent of that, but I don't think I need to defend myself on that as I m not the one trying to protect people based upon their religious views.
Click to expand...


What a silly crock of bullshit.


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Munin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims in the past/present were/are not the biggest humanitarian fans when it comes to treating non-muslims. The only reason I would protect muslims is because they re human, not because of their so called "peacefull religion": so don't use their religion as the reason why they should be protected to try to convince non-muslims.  And before you accuse me of something I do not support: I certainly do not support the bloodshed on non-violent muslim citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The history of political Islam starts with Mohammed&#8217;s immigration to Medina. From that point on, Islam&#8217;s appeal to the world has always had the dualistic option of joining a glorious religion or being the subject of political pressure and violence. After the immigration to Medina, Islam became violent when persuasion failed. Jihad entered the world.
> 
> After Mohammed&#8217;s death, Abu Bakr, the second caliph, settled the theological arguments of those who wished to leave Islam with the political action of death by the sword. The jihad of Umar (the second caliph, a pope-king) exploded into the world of the unbelievers. Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the Hindu to be the victims of jihad. The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest.
> 
> Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed.
> 
> The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great&#8217;s army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism.
> 
> Zoarasterianism was eliminated from Persia.
> 
> The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam.
> 
> In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad.
> 
> Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school.
> 
> 
> 
> Islam: 270 Million Bodies in 1400 Years | Breaking News online by Social daily News
> 
> I think you re waging your religious jihad (with words) here, but Islam has already lost the "battle of morality" when its followers butchered 270 million nonbelievers during its existence. I m not saying that other religions are innocent of that, but I don't think I need to defend myself on that as I m not the one trying to protect people based upon their religious views.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What a silly crock of bullshit.
Click to expand...


What exactly do you think became of those Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus and Buddhists who inhabited the countries in Europe, Asia, Africa and the Middle East invaded by Islamos and who refused to [forcibly] convert?  Ever read the Sword Verses of the Quran?  It's not a pretty picture.  Oh, that's right, Islam forbids free thought.

Quran 9:5...


> Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful



Quran 9:123...


> O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)


----------



## Kalam

Kalam said:


> What a silly crock of bullshit.



Some posts are reusable.


----------



## Kalam

Update (rebel source):



			
				Kavkaz Center said:
			
		

> Fierce gun battle in Ingushetia: police chieftain eliminated​
> A fierce gunfire occurred Friday morning in the Ingush village of Ekazhevo. According to Russian invaders, a house with a group of Mujahideen has been blocked on one of the streets of this village.
> 
> Local puppets said that the Mujahideen responded with gun fire when the invaders demanded they surrender and lay down weapons.
> 
> According to the puppet sources, 3 puppet policemen were seriously injured and taken to a local hospital during a fierce battle.
> 
> Fierce gun battle in Ingushetia: police chieftain eliminated - Kavkazcenter.com


----------



## Charles Stucker

Kalam said:


> Update (rebel source):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kavkaz Center said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fierce gun battle in Ingushetia: police chieftain eliminated​
> A fierce gunfire occurred Friday morning in the Ingush village of Ekazhevo. According to Russian invaders, a house with a group of Mujahideen has been blocked on one of the streets of this village.
> 
> Local puppets said that the Mujahideen responded with gun fire when the invaders demanded they surrender and lay down weapons.
> 
> According to the puppet sources, 3 puppet policemen were seriously injured and taken to a local hospital during a fierce battle.
> 
> Fierce gun battle in Ingushetia: police chieftain eliminated - Kavkazcenter.com
Click to expand...

When they catch these rebels red-handed they should waive the formality of a trial and shoot them where they stand.


----------



## Kalam

Charles Stucker said:


> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Update (rebel source):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kavkaz Center said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fierce gun battle in Ingushetia: police chieftain eliminated​
> A fierce gunfire occurred Friday morning in the Ingush village of Ekazhevo. According to Russian invaders, a house with a group of Mujahideen has been blocked on one of the streets of this village.
> 
> Local puppets said that the Mujahideen responded with gun fire when the invaders demanded they surrender and lay down weapons.
> 
> According to the puppet sources, 3 puppet policemen were seriously injured and taken to a local hospital during a fierce battle.
> 
> Fierce gun battle in Ingushetia: police chieftain eliminated - Kavkazcenter.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When they catch these rebels red-handed they should waive the formality of a trial and shoot them where they stand.
Click to expand...

Please. You'd support any oppressor as long as their victims were Muslims. Your armchair support for Russian genocide is unimpressive.


----------



## Marc39

Kalam said:


> Charles Stucker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kalam said:
> 
> 
> 
> Update (rebel source):
> 
> 
> 
> When they catch these rebels red-handed they should waive the formality of a trial and shoot them where they stand.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Please. You'd support any oppressor as long as their victims were Muslims. Your armchair support for Russian genocide is unimpressive.
Click to expand...


Except, Muslims living in Islamic countries are oppressed with no freedom, no human rights, no civil liberties.

Islamos who come to the West then want to impose Sharia and oppress the rest of us, too.


----------



## Charles Stucker

Kalam said:


> Please. You'd support any oppressor as long as their victims were Muslims. Your armchair support for Russian genocide is unimpressive.


You would support any rebel or oppressor as long as they were Muslim. I don't believe the Russians are the oppressors in this case, I contend it is the rebels who wish to impose their militaristic Islamic views on others, those who don't worship Mohamed, who are the "oppressors" and the average citizen caught in the middle the oppressed, while the Russians, are in this case, defending the oppressed. 

How did Gandhi get rid of the British? Peacefully.
That is not the method Muslims use; they grab guns and explosives and Kill, *Kill*, *KILL*
in the name of Mohamed.


----------



## Kalam

Charles Stucker said:


> You would support any rebel or oppressor as long as they were Muslim.


Oppressors and people who revolt unjustly aren't Muslims. I support mujahideen.
_The way is only against those who oppress men and revolt in the earth unjustly. For such there is a painful chastisement._ - 42:42​


Charles Stucker said:


> I don't believe the Russians are the oppressors in this case, I contend it is the rebels who wish to impose their militaristic Islamic views on others, those who don't worship Mohamed, who are the "oppressors" and the average citizen caught in the middle the oppressed, while the Russians, are in this case, defending the oppressed.


That's because you immediately assumed that Muslims were at fault rather than bothering to take a look at the history of the conflict. Anybody who truly believes that Russia is "defending the oppressed" is a complete fucking moron. I hope that you aren't one of them. Travel to Chechnya, witness a Russian atrocity, and tell the world about it. Then see how long it takes before you realize that you're dying from polonium poisoning. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/books/review/Montefiore-t.html?_r=1

Former KGB. Talked too much about Chechnya. 



Charles Stucker said:


> How did Gandhi get rid of the British? Peacefully. That is not the method Muslims use; they grab guns and explosives and Kill, *Kill*, *KILL*
> in the name of Mohamed.


Russia chose jihad when they killed Aslan Maskhadov. Before that, people were fighting for autonomy. Now, they're fighting purely for the sake of Allah. Russia chose jihad and that's precisely what they'll get until they withdraw or crumble.  



Kalam said:


> Gatekeeper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad these people who subscribe to this insanity won't choose peace.
> 
> 
> 
> There was an opportunity for peace when Dudayev declared independence from the USSR in 1991; Yeltsin sent troops instead. There was an opportunity for peace when the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria was formed in 1993; Russia launched a failed invasion of Grozny instead. There was an opportunity for peace when, after the Russians had been bombarding Chechnya for weeks, the two nations agreed to end their use of force; Russia attempted to invade Chechnya a few days later. After years of war and Russian atrocities, there was yet another opportunity for peace after Maskhadov and Yeltsin signed a peace agreement in 1997; Russia invaded Chechnya again two years later and established a puppet regime after rejecting another generous appeal for peace by Maskhadov. When the Russian terrorists murdered Aslan Maskhadov in 2005, they completely destroyed any hope of peace. The conflict has changed from a crushed bid for independence to a front for ongoing jihad.
> 
> BBC NEWS | Europe | Obituary: Aslan Maskhadov
Click to expand...


----------

