# 12 years a slave



## Gracie (Mar 16, 2014)

I can't find the original thread....so...just wanted to say it is on pay per view..and that is where I am heading right now.

bbl


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## Tank (Mar 16, 2014)

Another white guilt movie


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## DriftingSand (Mar 16, 2014)

My earliest ancestor came to America in the mid 1600s as a slave.  White slave that is.  It happened so long ago that I don't hold a grudge against whomever owned him.  I think he was finally freed after a time.  Thank God the law no longer allows slavery whether a person is white or black or red or yellow.  Fortunately, we can all look to the future and pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and make the best of the here and now and the days to come.  The past is the past and it's over and done with.


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## SmedlyButler (Mar 16, 2014)

Tank said:


> Another white guilt movie



If history makes someone feel guilty. (It's based on an autobiography and is claimed to be historically accurate. Should history be censored? Of course no one will be forced to watch.)


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## SmedlyButler (Mar 16, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> My earliest ancestor came to America in the mid 1600s as a slave.  White slave that is.  It happened so long ago that I don't hold a grudge against whomever owned him.  I think he was finally freed after a time.  Thank God the law no longer allows slavery whether a person is white or black or red or yellow.  Fortunately, we can all look to the future and pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and make the best of the here and now and the days to come.  The past is the past and it's over and done with.



Thanks


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## Gracie (Mar 16, 2014)

Well....I watched it.

I'm not sure what else to say. Except it pissed me off. A lot.


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## Tank (Mar 16, 2014)

Why?


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## Gracie (Mar 16, 2014)

Well. You gotta realize I am not black. Nor have ever been a slave. However, I have been beaten before. Badly. By the ex. And I mean punched, kicked, spit on, choked...you know. The usual.

So...with that said...and in some way it kinda goes along with why I was soooooo pissed of I was yelling at the tv.....and hubby came in to see what I was furiously cussing at...all these things have to be taken together in one bit stew pot for it to bring forth the emotion I felt watching it.

The first thing I would have done when the asshole told me to beat the girl on the post....was to take the whip, say Yessa Massa, then turn and smack him and scramble for the gun. Nobody else was around to help him. Except his scuzzy wife. NOBODY. I don't understand why they didn't fight back. I really don't. Fear. Ok. I can accept that. I was scared too. But I fought back when I saw ex coming at me with that look in his eye. I knew what was fixing to come raining down on me and I held firm, looked for a weapon I could use, and I gave him as much as he gave me.  So...why did Solomon not fight? That's what pissed me off. He could have snapped that gun out of assholes hand, beat the fuck out of him, then turn the whip on the bitch wife. Who would stop him? The other slaves? They were too scared to save themselves by teaming up, much less protect Massa.

Solomon hung there for hours. Kids playing. Women wandering to and fro. And nobody..I mean NOBODY was there to stop them from cutting him down. The overseer was somewhere else. So why not help him? Fear.

I guess what I am trying to say is...yes, if they fought back, they would have been hung or beaten to death. But I'd rather die fighting back than dance in a drunks house at his demand. Kill my ass cuz if you don't, you're dead yourself sorta thing.

THAT is why it pissed me off.


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## Luissa (Mar 16, 2014)

Tank said:


> Another white guilt movie




^^^another bigot 


Sent from my iPhone using the tears of Raider's fans.


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## Tank (Mar 16, 2014)

It's just a movie


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## Gracie (Mar 16, 2014)

Yes, it's "just a movie" but it depicts what went down back then. Horrible things. Cruel people. Constant betrayal. Corruption. Insanity. Evil.

And I already knew from history, what I have read over the years, what I have heard over the years, what I experienced myself but not to that extent since I could leave any time I wanted to...which I did after three or four beatings (and him being doctored as well cuz like I said...I didn't go down without a fight). THEY couldn't leave. THEY were "owned".

I guess it just pissed me off cuz it reminded me of my own experiences. And it pissed me off that people could be so......awful to other people.


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## Tank (Mar 16, 2014)

Slaves were very expensive and there health and well being depended on the success of a plantation. 

I wonder how a movie about a slave owner who treated his slaves well would do?


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## Gracie (Mar 17, 2014)

Wtf??? Health and well being? Are you fucking insane??? Is your hate that deep? Boy, you had me fooled for a long time, Tank.


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## SmedlyButler (Mar 17, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Well. You gotta realize I am not black. Nor have ever been a slave. However, I have been beaten before. Badly. By the ex. And I mean punched, kicked, spit on, choked...you know. The usual.
> 
> So...with that said...and in some way it kinda goes along with why I was soooooo pissed of I was yelling at the tv.....and hubby came in to see what I was furiously cussing at...all these things have to be taken together in one bit stew pot for it to bring forth the emotion I felt watching it.
> 
> ...



Ever hear the personal stories of people who survived places like Auschwitz and Buchenwald, and what they actually did and what they suffered to survive?


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## Gracie (Mar 17, 2014)

> Ever hear the personal stories of people who survived places like Auschwitz and Buchenwald, and what they actually did and what they suffered to survive?



Of course. There is alot in history that is awful.


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## Tank (Mar 17, 2014)

History Engine: Tools for Collaborative Education and Research | Episodes


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## Sarah G (Mar 17, 2014)

Tank said:


> It's just a movie



The book was written in the 1800s, it was an actual event that happened to a real human being.  It wasn't just a movie.  It was a memoir.


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## Tank (Mar 17, 2014)

Look I understand that some slave were treated horrible, but for the most part the majority were treated well, much better then the lives they had in Africa.

Just the fact that in the 1800's a slave was able to write a "memoir" is proof in it's self, how many memoirs were written in Africa that year?

Anyways here are some other writing by slaves that will never be a movie:

&#8220;The Slave Narratives are overwhelmingly favorable in the judgment of slave masters as &#8216;good men.&#8217;&#8221; They found out of 331 narratives that had a reference to a master, 86% suggested that their masters were &#8220;good&#8221; or &#8220;kind.&#8221; Some of those references also suggested that the master did not allow whippings and a number of them only allowed whippings while they were present.  Wilkins and Wilson also suggest that slave masters did not want slaves who were defiant and lazy. They wanted hardworking and responsible slaves.  &#8220;Such attitudes cannot be beaten into slaves. They had to be elicited.&#8221;


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## Sarah G (Mar 17, 2014)

Tank said:


> Look I understand that some slave were treated horrible, but for the most part the majority were treated well, much better then the lives they had in Africa.
> 
> Just the fact that in the 1800's a slave was able to write a "memoir" is proof in it's self, how many memoirs were written in Africa that year?
> 
> ...



Yes, he could write.  He wasn't a slave initially, he was kidnapped and sold.  He had a family, a job and yes he could write.

That's the thing, because of his skin color, this travesty was allowed to happen to him.


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## Tank (Mar 17, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Yes, it's "just a movie" but it depicts what went down back then. Horrible things. Cruel people. Constant betrayal. Corruption. Insanity. Evil.
> 
> And I already knew from history, what I have read over the years, what I have heard over the years, what I experienced myself but not to that extent since I could leave any time I wanted to...which I did after three or four beatings (and him being doctored as well cuz like I said...I didn't go down without a fight). THEY couldn't leave. THEY were "owned".
> 
> I guess it just pissed me off cuz it reminded me of my own experiences. And it pissed me off that people could be so......awful to other people.


Are you really comparing your life to that of a slave?

Man, that movie did a number on you.


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## katsteve2012 (Mar 17, 2014)

Tank said:


> Another white guilt movie



Perceived as such only by those who are not bright enough to recognize that it was actually a story about the strength of the human spirit when faced with adversity. And it also had a happy ending.


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## Tank (Mar 17, 2014)

Sarah G said:


> He had a family, a job and yes he could write.


Something most black men don't have today.


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## Sarah G (Mar 17, 2014)

Tank said:


> Sarah G said:
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> > He had a family, a job and yes he could write.
> ...



Most?  You don't seem to know a lot about the world but I'll give you this, you do work hard in your attempt to keep that ignorant mindset alive.


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## Tank (Mar 17, 2014)

Sarah G said:


> Tank said:
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Over 70% of black babies are born without a father around, way higher than the days of slavery.

But much closer with those of Africa


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2014)

Sarah G said:


> Tank said:
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It's what racists do best: ignorance.


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## Gracie (Mar 17, 2014)

I refuse to discuss this with Tank. He is a bigot, racist, and pretty fucking dumb.


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## Politico (Mar 17, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Wtf??? Health and well being? Are you fucking insane??? Is your hate that deep? Boy, you had me fooled for a long time, Tank.



You were fooled? where have you been?


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## SmedlyButler (Mar 17, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> Sarah G said:
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What they don't do well is stay under their rocks. They just can't help but reveal that scaly skin sooner or later. Well one positive, I think Gracie may have recognized this guy for what he is and always was.


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## Sallow (Mar 17, 2014)

Gracie said:


> I refuse to discuss this with Tank. He is a bigot, racist, and pretty fucking dumb.



Tank's unique.

He's completely honest about his racism.

Seldom makes personal attacks and at least attempts to justify his position with some historical evidence.

I may hate his politics, but he seems like an okay fellow.


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2014)

Sallow said:


> Gracie said:
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> > I refuse to discuss this with Tank. He is a bigot, racist, and pretty fucking dumb.
> ...





Meh. Racists have gotta be pretty mentally unstable, honesty aside.

It is like when a murderer says "yeah, I love to slice and dice 'em". He still as sick as we was before admitting it.


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## Statistikhengst (Mar 17, 2014)

Gracie said:


> I refuse to discuss this with Tank. He is a bigot, racist, and pretty fucking dumb.




You forgot homophobic.


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## Votto (Mar 17, 2014)

Gracie said:


> > Ever hear the personal stories of people who survived places like Auschwitz and Buchenwald, and what they actually did and what they suffered to survive?
> 
> 
> 
> Of course. There is alot in history that is awful.



Those who study history see that slavery is the rule, not the exception.

The vast majority of people who have walked the earth have been slaves.

The more disturbing question becomes, so what does that say about us?  

The enemy lives within.


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## Sallow (Mar 17, 2014)

Statistikhengst said:


> Sallow said:
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Not really.

And I've known some pretty racist people.

One owned a roofing company. Nicest guy ever. And he even employed folks who were black. Paid them more then the going rate. Lent them money, had them over to dinner.

But he still hated black people.

And Polish people too. Thought they were the same.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 17, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Well....I watched it.
> 
> I'm not sure what else to say. Except it pissed me off. A lot.



Then it served it's intended purpose.

The purpose of movies like this is to, in a veiled attempt, try to make slavery real as if it just happened.


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## Votto (Mar 17, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> Gracie said:
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> > Well....I watched it.
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I often question what direction we are headed now.  We have political leaders who seem to be gutting the middle class and then advocate for social programs that increase dependence on a way of living that is just enough to survive.

Now they tell us what doctors to see, how we are educated, what light bulbs or toilets to use etc.  It's almost as if we are being given just enough to survive so that we can serve our plantation masters.

The more things change the more they seem to stay the same.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 17, 2014)

Votto said:


> mudwhistle said:
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The slavery angle is just Democrats using race to keep blacks angry and liberals feeling guilty. BTW, did you know the Tea Party is racist?


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## Sarah G (Mar 17, 2014)

Sallow said:


> Gracie said:
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> > I refuse to discuss this with Tank. He is a bigot, racist, and pretty fucking dumb.
> ...



Someone else told me this as well so I gave him a second look.  Trouble is, at first glance, he's so racist that you begin to feel he's psychotic.  Most people just blow him off.


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## katsteve2012 (Mar 17, 2014)

Tank said:


> Look I understand that some slave were treated horrible, but for the most part the majority were treated well, much better then the lives they had in Africa.
> 
> Just the fact that in the 1800's a slave was able to write a "memoir" is proof in it's self, how many memoirs were written in Africa that year?
> 
> ...



Of the "narratives" published, it was roughly 100 actually by former slaves. The rest were by published by those who supposedly interviewed former slaves.
Slave Narratives written before 1900 were generally written or dictated by former slaves who either escaped to freedom or were able to otherwise purchase their freedom from their owners.* Some of the authors of these narratives were fugitive slaves on the run.*

"Only about 100 slave narratives were published by ex-slaves in book form before 1865 and another fifty were published between 1865 and 1930."

In 1929, Charles S. Blockson of Fisk University and John B. Cade of Southern University began interviewing ex-slaves.* Lawrence D. Reddick of Kentucky State College in 1934-1935, produced 250 interviews, but his program soon ended "because of organizational and funding problems."*

During the Great Depression, a project was undertaken by the federal government called the "Slave Narrative Collection of the Federal Writers Project."* The project produced a collection of forty-one volumes containing 2,300 interviews of ex-slaves from seventeen states and was conducted between 1936 to 1938.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 17, 2014)

I noticed that some blacks seem to have an entitlement mentality, like they expect special treatment. 

None of them was ever a slave yet some continually bring the topic up. Electing a black president was just an opening for settling imaginary grievances.


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## DriftingSand (Mar 17, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Well....I watched it.
> 
> I'm not sure what else to say. Except it pissed me off. A lot.



Being "pissed" isn't good for you.  It hurts you more than anyone else.  Living in the past isn't good for anyone either.  What can anyone do about it now?  Hate the descendants of slave owners?  If we're going to be angry at them then we need to be angry at the black tribesmen who sold their brothers into slavery in the first place.  AND we will have to be angry at the descendants of black slave owners.  Holding on to resentment and hatred isn't good for anyone at any time.


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## DriftingSand (Mar 17, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> I noticed that some blacks seem to have an entitlement mentality, like they expect special treatment.
> 
> None of them was ever a slave yet some continually bring the topic up. Electing a black president was just an opening for settling imaginary grievances.



^^^Truth!!^^^


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## mudwhistle (Mar 17, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> Gracie said:
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> > Well....I watched it.
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I don't like leaving a theatre pissed off.

Movies are supposed to be an escape. I prefer movies that end on a positive note, not filled with anger and vengeance


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## DriftingSand (Mar 17, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Well. You gotta realize I am not black. Nor have ever been a slave. However, I have been beaten before. Badly. By the ex. And I mean punched, kicked, spit on, choked...you know. The usual.
> 
> So...with that said...and in some way it kinda goes along with why I was soooooo pissed of I was yelling at the tv.....and hubby came in to see what I was furiously cussing at...all these things have to be taken together in one bit stew pot for it to bring forth the emotion I felt watching it.
> 
> ...



When the media is able to stir the ire and emotions of the masses it has done its job. We really can't say for certain that things happen the way that Hollywood portrays.  Hollywood has shows about vampires but we know that they're fictional; however, folks still get emotionally involved with the vampire shows.  

I'm curious if folks would be angry with Italians from Rome if they saw a movie about Christians being burned at the stake or thrown to lions by the Roman Empire.  Food for thought.


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## Sallow (Mar 17, 2014)

Votto said:


> mudwhistle said:
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They are not the same people.


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## Sallow (Mar 17, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> Gracie said:
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> > Well. You gotta realize I am not black. Nor have ever been a slave. However, I have been beaten before. Badly. By the ex. And I mean punched, kicked, spit on, choked...you know. The usual.
> ...



Yeah..that was a bad time for Christians.

Boy did they get revenge for that..and how.

Bloodiest religion..ever.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 17, 2014)

DriftingSand said:


> Gracie said:
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> > Well. You gotta realize I am not black. Nor have ever been a slave. However, I have been beaten before. Badly. By the ex. And I mean punched, kicked, spit on, choked...you know. The usual.
> ...



Vampires get a bad rap.


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## Sallow (Mar 17, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> DriftingSand said:
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All of them?

Since when?


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## mudwhistle (Mar 17, 2014)

Luissa said:


> Tank said:
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> > Another white guilt movie
> ...



People that hate for any reason are bigots.


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## mudwhistle (Mar 17, 2014)

Gracie said:


> Well. You gotta realize I am not black. Nor have ever been a slave. However, I have been beaten before. Badly. By the ex. And I mean punched, kicked, spit on, choked...you know. The usual.
> 
> So...with that said...and in some way it kinda goes along with why I was soooooo pissed of I was yelling at the tv.....and hubby came in to see what I was furiously cussing at...all these things have to be taken together in one bit stew pot for it to bring forth the emotion I felt watching it.
> 
> ...



Fighting back in those days was dangerous. My wife's brother had to leave town because the Crackers  (Southern Democrats) in town didn't like the fact that he had a pretty wife.
 My wife has been told several times by blacks that she should stick to her kind. She said to hell with that. Getting a beating by her former spouse every time the prick got in a fight with his gf was bullshit.


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## gipper (Mar 17, 2014)

What Hollywood puts in their movies about slavery today is in some ways inflammatory and historically not correct. 

Certainly there was terrible injustice, torture, and death suffered by slaves, but it is overblown by Hollywood to incite hate and white guilt in Americans today.

Owning slaves was expensive for the slave owner.  Generally...slave owners treated their slaves well because not doing so, cost them money.  They viewed slaves as their property and humans generally take care of their property no matter what that property consists of.

Now commence the name calling.


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## DriftingSand (Mar 17, 2014)

gipper said:


> What Hollywood puts in their movies about slavery today is in some ways inflammatory and historically not correct.
> 
> Certainly there was terrible injustice, torture, and death suffered by slaves, but it is overblown by Hollywood to incite hate and white guilt in Americans today.
> 
> ...



Exactly!! That's why every few years they need to put out another movie on the subject. It keeps the strife and division alive.  The worst part about it is that Americans fall for it time after time after time after time after time after time.  Everyone gets all riled up and emotional. The finger pointing starts all over again and the resentments are re-kindled. 

It's the American version of Pavlov's Dog (in a sense).


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## Gracie (Mar 18, 2014)

gipper said:


> What Hollywood puts in their movies about slavery today is in some ways inflammatory and historically not correct.
> 
> Certainly there was terrible injustice, torture, and death suffered by slaves, but it is overblown by Hollywood to incite hate and white guilt in Americans today.
> 
> ...




No name calling from me. Yes, many treated their slaves very well. They were an investment..just like having a good stable of horses. Beat the horse, the horse can't pull a plow or a fancy carriage. However, some treated them extremely bad. And yes..Hollywood needs to focus on those that did treat them well.


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## Politico (Mar 18, 2014)

Sallow said:


> Gracie said:
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> > I refuse to discuss this with Tank. He is a bigot, racist, and pretty fucking dumb.
> ...



LOL hardly. He denies it at every turn.


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## katsteve2012 (Mar 18, 2014)

mudwhistle said:


> DriftingSand said:
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12 Years A Slave DID end on a positive note. He escaped captivity and returned to his family. Nothing negative about that. 

Now for those who are "pissed off" that the movie was even made,  or that it won Best Picture...eek

Different story.


 Right?


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## mudwhistle (Mar 18, 2014)

katsteve2012 said:


> mudwhistle said:
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So did Passion of the Christ.

It's difficult to sit through that you know.

I'd rather pay to see "The Princess Bride".


The sooner slavery is forgotten the better.


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## MikeK (Mar 31, 2014)

Gracie said:


> > Ever hear the personal stories of people who survived places like Auschwitz and Buchenwald, and what they actually did and what they suffered to survive?
> 
> 
> 
> Of course. There is alot in history that is awful.


That's true.  But the focus of this type of movie is usually on the negative while ignoring the positive, which was true until the movies, _Schindler's List_ and _The Pianist_ were released to soften the brainwash by reminding the world that not all Germans were psychopathic sadists.

I recently watched _Roots_ for the first time and I must say it took a while to realize it isn't a comedy.  Of course slavery was a detestable institution every aspect of which is and should be offensive to contemporary consciousness.  But it's time a movie was made about those Whites who sacrificed and who jeopardized their own safety and security to promote abolition of slavery and who participated in the _Underground Railroad_.  Because I have no doubt movies like _Roots_ serve mainly to promote hatred of Whites in the collective mind of contemporary Blacks and leads to gratuitous attacks on innocent White people.


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## MikeK (Mar 31, 2014)

Sarah G said:


> Tank said:
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> > It's just a movie
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So is _Mein Kampf._


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## MikeK (Mar 31, 2014)

Sarah G said:


> Sallow said:
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My impression of Tank is he doesn't care for Blacks but he would not go out of his way to harm them or behave cruelly toward them, which is the important thing.  If he's a "racist," so what.  He has a right to be.  As far as his commentary here is concerned, I often find him as funny as some of the Black tv comedians who constantly deride White people.

Tank is honest.  How many others aren't?


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## DGS49 (Mar 31, 2014)

It is precisely because most of what is put out there about slavery is made-up nonsense that this book and production can be valuable.  This was a guy who actually lived through it, but was able to see it as an outsider, since he was born into it.

What is difficult to get a grip on the gratuitous violence and brutality.  It must have taken place but how bad was it?  Were slaves routinely whipped, only for significant infractions, or something else (recognizing that every plantation was somewhat different).

It doesn't make logical sense that owners would physically injure slaves routinely because they were significant capital assets, worth several years wages for a typical farmworker.  But obviously I don't know what the reality was.  Maybe the people who were hired as overseers were sadistic by nature.  That wouldn't be surprising.


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## MikeK (Mar 31, 2014)

The problem with all historical issues of this nature is the inevitable factor of exaggeration and the effect it produces.  Add to this the fact that most of the Black African slaves who ended up in America initially were sold to European slave traders by other Black Africans. 

So White Americans were not exclusively responsible for the great historical crime of slavery.  Nor were all White Americans involved in or approving of the practice.  In fact many Whites were vigorously opposed to it.  But we rarely hear about them.


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