# FDR Admiration Society



## rightwinger

Undoubtedly our finest modern President

1. Got us out of the Depression
2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%
3. Social Security
4. FDIC
5. National Labor Relations Act
6.  Led us through WWII
7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1
8.  Led us into the atomic age
9. Made the U.S. a Superpower
10. Laid the framework for the UN 

Not bad for a cripple


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## Mr Natural

The greatest US president of the 20th century.

By far.


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## rightwinger

Mr Clean said:


> The greatest US president of the 20th century.
> 
> By far.



Can you imagine a President who had half his accomplishments?


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## Kosh

1. Lied the US into WWII
2. Attacked a Country that did not attack the US..
3. Rounded up Americans and gave them loyalty tests.
4. Built the military industrial complex that the far left wants to dismantle.
5. Created the Welfare Society that was supposed to be temporary..
7. Started social security and sold to the American people as temporary.
8. Reinstated the income tax to pay for the war which was supposed to be temporary.
9. Tried to replace judges that were against is socialist/communist bills..
10. Had a privileged childhood.
11. Tried to increase the size of the Supreme Court.
12. One of the top racist presidents of all time..

etc...


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## whitehall

The propaganda bubble that the FDR legacy rests on is awesome. FDR was elected in 1932 and under his ineffective "leadership" the relatively mild recession turned into a freaking bodies in the ditch soup line depression for his next two terms. FDR appointed a former KKK member to the supreme court and the bigot paid him back with a judicial decision that justified incarcerating American citizens and confiscating their property without due process. The FDR administration's racist view of the Japanese led to one of the most notorious examples of negligence in American history when the Japanese killed 3,000 Americans in the Pearl Harbor attack. Thanks to the unrelenting propaganda of the fawning media the Pearl Harbor attack was viewed as some sort of victory. Democrats finally wheeled a virtual corpse around to campaign for his 4th term and true to form the media pretended that FDR was healthy while he was practically comatose due to several strokes. The DNC knew it and dumped the sitting V.P. while he was on vacation and hired a successor. FDR lasted about three months into his 4th term and his medical records disappeared.  Almost everything we were taught about the FDR years was political propaganda.


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## CrusaderFrank

For my next trick, I can make him laugh while I drink water -- Uncle Joe and his sock puppet FDR


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## Billy_Kinetta

rightwinger said:


> Undoubtedly our finest modern President
> 
> 1. Got us out of the Depression
> 2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%
> 3. Social Security
> 4. FDIC
> 5. National Labor Relations Act
> 6.  Led us through WWII
> 7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1
> 8.  Led us into the atomic age
> 9. Made the U.S. a Superpower
> 10. Laid the framework for the UN
> 
> Not bad for a cripple





1. Got us out of the Depression   *NOPE*
2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%   *NOPE*
3. Social Security   *SOCIALISM*
4. FDIC  *SOCIALISM*
5. National Labor Relations Act  *SOCIALISM*
6.  Led us through WWII   *HE LET THE GENERALS RUN THE WAR*
7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1  *NO, THE MILITARY DID THAT*
8.  Led us into the atomic age   *NOPE*
9. Made the U.S. a Superpower   *NOPE*
10. Laid the framework for the UN  *BIG MISTAKE*


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## rightwinger

whitehall said:


> The propaganda bubble that the FDR legacy rests on is awesome. FDR was elected in 1932 and under his ineffective "leadership" the relatively mild recession turned into a freaking bodies in the ditch soup line depression for his next two terms. FDR appointed a former KKK member to the supreme court and the bigot paid him back with a judicial decision that justified incarcerating American citizens and confiscating their property without due process. The FDR administration's racist view of the Japanese led to one of the most notorious examples of negligence in American history when the Japanese killed 3,000 Americans in the Pearl Harbor attack. Thanks to the unrelenting propaganda of the fawning media the Pearl Harbor attack was viewed as some sort of victory. Democrats finally wheeled a virtual corpse around to campaign for his 4th term and true to form the media pretended that FDR was healthy while he was practically comatose due to several strokes. The DNC knew it and dumped the sitting V.P. while he was on vacation and hired a successor. FDR lasted about three months into his 4th term and his medical records disappeared.  Almost everything we were taught about the FDR years was political propaganda.


You were doing fine until you characterized the Great Depression as a "mild recession"
I stopped reading after that


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## rightwinger




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## rightwinger




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## Moonglow

He also instituted the Good Neighbor policy...


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## Unkotare

Worst US President ever - by far.


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## rightwinger

Moonglow said:


> He also instituted the Good Neighbor policy...



It was FDR who started the minimum wage


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## Billy_Kinetta

One thing I find most interesting is the way modern-day Democrats give constitutional weight to FDR's "Four Freedoms".  While instrumental at the time in expressing viable American sentiments, it seems like nothing more today than an attempt to staple a little socialism onto the document without going through the amendment process.


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## rightwinger

Billy_Kinetta said:


> One thing I find most interesting is the way modern-day Democrats give constitutional weight to FDR's "Four Freedoms".  While instrumental at the time in expressing viable American sentiments, it seems like nothing more today than an attempt to staple a little socialism onto the document without going through the amendment process.



Government helping capitalists = Patriotism

Government helping the people = Socialism


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## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing I find most interesting is the way modern-day Democrats give constitutional weight to FDR's "Four Freedoms".  While instrumental at the time in expressing viable American sentiments, it seems like nothing more today than an attempt to staple a little socialism onto the document without going through the amendment process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government helping capitalists = Patriotism
> 
> Government helping the people = Socialism
Click to expand...


You don't have the slightest clue as to what "gubermint" is all about..I am so glad that I am not as ignorant as you are.


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## jon_berzerk

rightwinger said:


> Undoubtedly our finest modern President
> 
> 1. Got us out of the Depression
> 2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%
> 3. Social Security
> 4. FDIC
> 5. National Labor Relations Act
> 6.  Led us through WWII
> 7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1
> 8.  Led us into the atomic age
> 9. Made the U.S. a Superpower
> 10. Laid the framework for the UN
> 
> Not bad for a cripple




11-Executive Order No. 9066

_The President_

Executive Order

Authorizing the Secretary of War to Prescribe Military Areas

Whereas the successful prosecution of the war requires every possible protection against espionage and against sabotage to national-defense material, national-defense premises, and national-defense utilities as defined in Section 4, Act of April 20, 1918, 40 Stat. 533, as amended by the Act of November 30, 1940, 54 Stat. 1220, and the Act of August 21, 1941, 55 Stat. 655 (U.S.C., Title 50, Sec. 104);

Now, therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President of the United States, and Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy, I hereby authorize and direct the Secretary of War, and the Military Commanders whom he may from time to time designate, whenever he or any designated Commander deems such action necessary or desirable, to prescribe military areas in such places and of such extent as he or the appropriate Military Commander may determine, from which any or all persons may be excluded, and with respect to which, the right of any person to enter, remain in, or leave shall be subject to whatever restrictions the Secretary of War or the appropriate Military Commander may impose in his discretion. The Secretary of War is hereby authorized to provide for residents of any such area who are excluded therefrom, such transportation, food, shelter, and other accommodations as may be necessary, in the judgment of the Secretary of War or the said Military Commander, and until other arrangements are made, to accomplish the purpose of this order. The designation of military areas in any region or locality shall supersede designations of prohibited and restricted areas by the Attorney General under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, and shall supersede the responsibility and authority of the Attorney General under the said Proclamations in respect of such prohibited and restricted areas.

I hereby further authorize and direct the Secretary of War and the said Military Commanders to take such other steps as he or the appropriate Military Commander may deem advisable to enforce compliance with the restrictions applicable to each Military area hereinabove authorized to be designated, including the use of Federal troops and other Federal Agencies, with authority to accept assistance of state and local agencies.

I hereby further authorize and direct all Executive Departments, independent establishments and other Federal Agencies, to assist the Secretary of War or the said Military Commanders in carrying out this Executive Order, including the furnishing of medical aid, hospitalization, food, clothing, transportation, use of land, shelter, and other supplies, equipment, utilities, facilities, and services.

This order shall not be construed as modifying or limiting in any way the authority heretofore granted under Executive Order No. 8972, dated December 12, 1941, nor shall it be construed as limiting or modifying the duty and responsibility of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, with respect to the investigation of alleged acts of sabotage or the duty and responsibility of the Attorney General and the Department of Justice under the Proclamations of December 7 and 8, 1941, prescribing regulations for the conduct and control of alien enemies, except as such duty and responsibility is superseded by the designation of military areas hereunder.

Franklin D. Roosevelt

The White House,

February 19, 1942.

[F.R. Doc. 42–1563; Filed, February 21, 1942; 12:51 p.m.]

Source: Executive Order No. 9066, February 19, 1942.

Executive Order 9066: The President Authorizes Japanese Relocation


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## Moonglow

rightwinger said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also instituted the Good Neighbor policy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was FDR who started the minimum wage
Click to expand...

The population of our grandparents was so impressed with FDR they gave him president for life honors...


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## Billy_Kinetta

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing I find most interesting is the way modern-day Democrats give constitutional weight to FDR's "Four Freedoms".  While instrumental at the time in expressing viable American sentiments, it seems like nothing more today than an attempt to staple a little socialism onto the document without going through the amendment process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government helping capitalists = Patriotism
> 
> Government helping the people = Socialism
Click to expand...


Capitalists are "the people" too.


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## Moonglow

Unkotare said:


> Worst US President ever - by far.


Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...


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## Billy_Kinetta

Moonglow said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
Click to expand...


No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.


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## Moonglow

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Moonglow said:
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> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
Click to expand...

Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...


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## Billy_Kinetta

Moonglow said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
Click to expand...


Oh please, do find a history book to read.

I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.


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## Moonglow

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please, do find a history book to read.
> 
> I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.
Click to expand...

Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..


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## Billy_Kinetta

Moonglow said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please, do find a history book to read.
> 
> I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..
Click to expand...


Nope. Strategy and tactics were devised by the military leadership and presented to FDR, who never served in the military.


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## CrusaderFrank

He' admired by Stalin and Mao -- forever


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## Moonglow

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please, do find a history book to read.
> 
> I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Strategy and tactics were devised by the military leadership and presented to FDR, who never served in the military.
Click to expand...

He was Assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI...But then again Lincoln had no real experience either...


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## Moonglow

CrusaderFrank said:


> He' admired by Stalin and Mao -- forever


Sure that's why he funded the nationals...


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## Billy_Kinetta

Moonglow said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please, do find a history book to read.
> 
> I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Strategy and tactics were devised by the military leadership and presented to FDR, who never served in the military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was Assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI
Click to expand...


Administrative position.  No military rank or service.


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## CrusaderFrank

Moonglow said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
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> 
> 
> He' admired by Stalin and Mao -- forever
> 
> 
> 
> Sure that's why he funded the nationals...
Click to expand...


He helped Mao. He fucked over the Nationals in favor of Progressive Mao


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## Moonglow

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, do find a history book to read.
> 
> I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Strategy and tactics were devised by the military leadership and presented to FDR, who never served in the military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was Assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Administrative position.  No military rank or service.
Click to expand...

Yet he helped win the war and was unanimously elected by the population of the US, they evidently thought he was doing a good job....


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## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing I find most interesting is the way modern-day Democrats give constitutional weight to FDR's "Four Freedoms".  While instrumental at the time in expressing viable American sentiments, it seems like nothing more today than an attempt to staple a little socialism onto the document without going through the amendment process.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government helping capitalists = Patriotism
> 
> Government helping the people = Socialism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't have the slightest clue as to what "gubermint" is all about..I am so glad that I am not as ignorant as you are.
Click to expand...

Really?

please expand on your claim and we can discuss it


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## Moonglow

CrusaderFrank said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
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> 
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> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> He' admired by Stalin and Mao -- forever
> 
> 
> 
> Sure that's why he funded the nationals...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He helped Mao. He fucked over the Nationals in favor of Progressive Mao
Click to expand...

Sure Buddy..By not giving them support and not letting the communist forces be admitted to Stilwell's command....You really are no good without Polivinylchic to help you in your attacks.


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## rightwinger

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> 
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, do find a history book to read.
> 
> I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Strategy and tactics were devised by the military leadership and presented to FDR, who never served in the military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was Assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Administrative position.  No military rank or service.
Click to expand...


Far from it.  FDR essentialy ran the Navy Department as the Sec of the Navy was a political figurehead


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## Dale Smith

Whenever the leftists attempt to declare the alleged "Greatness of FDR"? I have to fight back the feelings of wanting to go "postal"......the man was just that much of a POS. Had I been around in 1933, I would have tied cement blocks around his crippled legs and dumped him in the Potomac River with great gusto and joy.

Allow me to inform you what FDR did to the American people......when USA.INC declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy due to the debt incurred by the orchestrated crash of 1929, FDR pledged every person born after March 5th, 1933 as collateral on the debt of the international bankers that hijacked our monetary system via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Up until 1933, there was no such thing as a "birth certificate" because there was no need for one. FDR pledged our future earnings, taxes and other "gubermint" fees as collateral. Your birth certificate was printed on bond paper from which they create a corporate fiction using your all caps name (which is your "strawman"). Look at your  driver's license, social security card, the copy of your birth certificate... any bill that you receive, any notice from the court and you will see that your name is always in all caps...that is your corporate fiction and your birth certificate  that was created enters you into contract and gives that bond value based on the commerce, taxes and other "gubermint" fees that you will pay over your lifetime.  It matures and starts gaining value when you turn 18 and the banking oligarchs collect the balance of that bond with your death CERTIFICATE. FDR didn't have the balls to kick the banking oligarchs to the curb and tell them that we would do like Lincoln did and print our our currency backed by gold...oh no, FDR made everyone turn in their gold under the penalty of jail and fines in exchange for a fiat currency i.e "Federal Reserve NOTES". FDR made us all indentured debt slaves to the banking cabal...hope this sets your stupid ass straight. If people really knew what a sorry pos FDR was? They would spit on the ground when his initials are mentioned...I know that I do....


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## Camp

Billy_Kinetta said:


> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
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> Moonglow said:
> 
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please, do find a history book to read.
> 
> I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Strategy and tactics were devised by the military leadership and presented to FDR, who never served in the military.
Click to expand...

FDR served as Assistant Secretary of the Navy for seven years, including the entirety of WWI. His decisions to rebuild the air corp with newly developed craft and his guidance and insistence of developing new modern ships during the 1930's, including the Essex Class carrier were key factors in winning WWII. Furthermore, memoirs by leading military leaders, including General Marshall are full of examples of him overruling or adjusting their plans and ideas.


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## Moonglow

Dale Smith said:


> Whenever the leftists attempt to declare the alleged "Greatness of FDR"? I have to fight back the feelings of wanting to go "postal"......the man was just that much of a POS. Had I been around in 1933, I would have tied cement blocks around his crippled legs and dumped him in the Potomac River with great gusto and joy.
> 
> Allow me to inform you what FDR did to the American people......when USA.INC declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy due to the debt incurred by the orchestrated crash of 1929, FDR pledged every person born after March 5th, 1933 as collateral on the debt of the international bankers that hijacked our monetary system via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Up until 1933, there was no such thing as a "birth certificate" because there was no need for one. FDR pledged our future earnings, taxes and other "gubermint" fees as collateral. Your birth certificate was printed on bond paper from which they create a corporate fiction using your all caps name (which is your "strawman"). Look at your  driver's license, social security card, the copy of your birth certificate... any bill that you receive, any notice from the court and you will see that your name is always in all caps...that is your corporate fiction and your birth certificate  that was created enters you into contract and gives that bond value based on the commerce, taxes and other "gubermint" fees that you will pay over your lifetime.  It matures and starts gaining value when you turn 18 and the banking oligarchs collect the balance of that bond with your death CERTIFICATE. FDR didn't have the balls to kick the banking oligarchs to the curb and tell them that we would do like Lincoln did and print our our currency backed by gold...oh no, FDR made everyone turn in their gold under the penalty of jail and fines in exchange for a fiat currency i.e "Federal Reserve NOTES". FDR made us all indentured debt slaves to the banking cabal...hope this sets your stupid ass straight. If people really knew what a sorry pos FDR was? They would spit on the ground when his initials are mentioned...I know that I do....


Live debt free, by having nothing or be a good capitalist supporter and go in debt to support the rich...


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## regent

Why are conservatives so intent on tearing down FDR and not building up Lincoln? 
With Lincoln the GOP have a truly great president and instead Republicans seem to ignore Lincoln preferring to make Reagan great, and nobody's buying Reagan.


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## Moonglow

regent said:


> Why are conservatives so intent on tearing down FDR and not building up Lincoln?
> With Lincoln the GOP have a truly great president and instead Republicans seem to ignore Lincoln preferring to make Reagan great, and nobody's buying Reagan.


The Heritage Foundation and the extreme right winged evangelicals are playing character assassins...yes, for Reagan is their Gawd darn choice for number juan...


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## Dale Smith

Moonglow said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
Click to expand...

 The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,

Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.


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## Moonglow

Dale Smith said:


> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
Click to expand...

Goaded? By stopping the sale of scrap metal because of a boycott? No one forced the Japs to attack Pearl Harbor, it was an elective operation..
The Nazi's did not help put Stalin or Lenin in power, it was the German military leader Ludendorff during the Wilhelm monarchy of Germany during WWI...


----------



## CrusaderFrank

Moonglow said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> He' admired by Stalin and Mao -- forever
> 
> 
> 
> Sure that's why he funded the nationals...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He helped Mao. He fucked over the Nationals in favor of Progressive Mao
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure Buddy..By not giving them support and not letting the communist forces be admitted to Stilwell's command....You really are no good without Polivinylchic to help you in your attacks.
Click to expand...


He cut off funding the nationals.


----------



## Dale Smith

Moonglow said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever the leftists attempt to declare the alleged "Greatness of FDR"? I have to fight back the feelings of wanting to go "postal"......the man was just that much of a POS. Had I been around in 1933, I would have tied cement blocks around his crippled legs and dumped him in the Potomac River with great gusto and joy.
> 
> Allow me to inform you what FDR did to the American people......when USA.INC declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy due to the debt incurred by the orchestrated crash of 1929, FDR pledged every person born after March 5th, 1933 as collateral on the debt of the international bankers that hijacked our monetary system via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Up until 1933, there was no such thing as a "birth certificate" because there was no need for one. FDR pledged our future earnings, taxes and other "gubermint" fees as collateral. Your birth certificate was printed on bond paper from which they create a corporate fiction using your all caps name (which is your "strawman"). Look at your  driver's license, social security card, the copy of your birth certificate... any bill that you receive, any notice from the court and you will see that your name is always in all caps...that is your corporate fiction and your birth certificate  that was created enters you into contract and gives that bond value based on the commerce, taxes and other "gubermint" fees that you will pay over your lifetime.  It matures and starts gaining value when you turn 18 and the banking oligarchs collect the balance of that bond with your death CERTIFICATE. FDR didn't have the balls to kick the banking oligarchs to the curb and tell them that we would do like Lincoln did and print our our currency backed by gold...oh no, FDR made everyone turn in their gold under the penalty of jail and fines in exchange for a fiat currency i.e "Federal Reserve NOTES". FDR made us all indentured debt slaves to the banking cabal...hope this sets your stupid ass straight. If people really knew what a sorry pos FDR was? They would spit on the ground when his initials are mentioned...I know that I do....
> 
> 
> 
> Live debt free, by having nothing or be a good capitalist supporter and go in debt to support the rich...
Click to expand...


Good God....you are beyond being fucking stupid....does your mother still tie your shoes? Seriously, how can you not get the gist of what I posted (which is fact)..or are you just a drooling retard?? Work with me here.....


----------



## Dale Smith

Moonglow said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Goaded? By stopping the sale of scrap metal because of a boycott? No one forced the Japs to attack Pearl Harbor, it was an elective operation..
Click to expand...




Moonglow said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Goaded? By stopping the sale of scrap metal because of a boycott? No one forced the Japs to attack Pearl Harbor, it was an elective operation..
Click to expand...

 Back in the early 40's, USA.INC was the equivalent of Saudi Arabia...we shut off Japan's oil. Research, learn....evolve.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Whenever the leftists attempt to declare the alleged "Greatness of FDR"? I have to fight back the feelings of wanting to go "postal"......the man was just that much of a POS. Had I been around in 1933, I would have tied cement blocks around his crippled legs and dumped him in the Potomac River with great gusto and joy.
> 
> Allow me to inform you what FDR did to the American people......when USA.INC declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy due to the debt incurred by the orchestrated crash of 1929, FDR pledged every person born after March 5th, 1933 as collateral on the debt of the international bankers that hijacked our monetary system via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Up until 1933, there was no such thing as a "birth certificate" because there was no need for one. FDR pledged our future earnings, taxes and other "gubermint" fees as collateral. Your birth certificate was printed on bond paper from which they create a corporate fiction using your all caps name (which is your "strawman"). Look at your  driver's license, social security card, the copy of your birth certificate... any bill that you receive, any notice from the court and you will see that your name is always in all caps...that is your corporate fiction and your birth certificate  that was created enters you into contract and gives that bond value based on the commerce, taxes and other "gubermint" fees that you will pay over your lifetime.  It matures and starts gaining value when you turn 18 and the banking oligarchs collect the balance of that bond with your death CERTIFICATE. FDR didn't have the balls to kick the banking oligarchs to the curb and tell them that we would do like Lincoln did and print our our currency backed by gold...oh no, FDR made everyone turn in their gold under the penalty of jail and fines in exchange for a fiat currency i.e "Federal Reserve NOTES". FDR made us all indentured debt slaves to the banking cabal...hope this sets your stupid ass ]straight. If people really knew what a sorry pos FDR was? They would spit on the ground when his initials are mentioned...I know that I do....


Nut job opinions with loads of distortions and misinformation. If all the crap in your post were accurate the policies and programs of FDR would not be still key programs 80 years after they were  first introduced and implemented.


----------



## Moonglow

Dale Smith said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Goaded? By stopping the sale of scrap metal because of a boycott? No one forced the Japs to attack Pearl Harbor, it was an elective operation..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Goaded? By stopping the sale of scrap metal because of a boycott? No one forced the Japs to attack Pearl Harbor, it was an elective operation..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Back in the early 40's, USA.INC was the equivalent of Saudi Arabia...we shut off Japan's oil. Research, learn....evolve.
Click to expand...

We did several things, to protest what they were doing in China....I know you need to apologize for Japan during the misguided leadership of Tojo...


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
Click to expand...

LIAR. Your nonsense is based on conspiracy theory crap that you can not back up. Your theory has been around for 75 years and has never been anything other than a conspiracy theory. Facts have proven your nonsense to be nonsense. 
FDR had to contend with the isolationist and Neutrality Act up until 1940 when the Tea Party of that era were exposed for the idiots they were and the nation started paying attention to the growing threats from the Axis, including Japan.


----------



## rightwinger

Moonglow said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are conservatives so intent on tearing down FDR and not building up Lincoln?
> With Lincoln the GOP have a truly great president and instead Republicans seem to ignore Lincoln preferring to make Reagan great, and nobody's buying Reagan.
> 
> 
> 
> The Heritage Foundation and the extreme right winged evangelicals are playing character assassins...yes, for Reagan is their Gawd darn choice for number juan...
Click to expand...

Reagan supported FDR


----------



## Moonglow

rightwinger said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are conservatives so intent on tearing down FDR and not building up Lincoln?
> With Lincoln the GOP have a truly great president and instead Republicans seem to ignore Lincoln preferring to make Reagan great, and nobody's buying Reagan.
> 
> 
> 
> The Heritage Foundation and the extreme right winged evangelicals are playing character assassins...yes, for Reagan is their Gawd darn choice for number juan...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Reagan supported FDR
Click to expand...

Considering that Reagan was an FDRite and voted democratic party..


----------



## Unkotare

Reagan apologized for fdr.


----------



## guno

CrusaderFrank said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> He' admired by Stalin and Mao -- forever
> 
> 
> 
> Sure that's why he funded the nationals...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He helped Mao. He fucked over the Nationals in favor of Progressive Mao
Click to expand...

He whipped the Goombas with one had tired behind his back and they folded like cheap spaghetti

Italian war maneuvers


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever the leftists attempt to declare the alleged "Greatness of FDR"? I have to fight back the feelings of wanting to go "postal"......the man was just that much of a POS. Had I been around in 1933, I would have tied cement blocks around his crippled legs and dumped him in the Potomac River with great gusto and joy.
> 
> Allow me to inform you what FDR did to the American people......when USA.INC declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy due to the debt incurred by the orchestrated crash of 1929, FDR pledged every person born after March 5th, 1933 as collateral on the debt of the international bankers that hijacked our monetary system via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Up until 1933, there was no such thing as a "birth certificate" because there was no need for one. FDR pledged our future earnings, taxes and other "gubermint" fees as collateral. Your birth certificate was printed on bond paper from which they create a corporate fiction using your all caps name (which is your "strawman"). Look at your  driver's license, social security card, the copy of your birth certificate... any bill that you receive, any notice from the court and you will see that your name is always in all caps...that is your corporate fiction and your birth certificate  that was created enters you into contract and gives that bond value based on the commerce, taxes and other "gubermint" fees that you will pay over your lifetime.  It matures and starts gaining value when you turn 18 and the banking oligarchs collect the balance of that bond with your death CERTIFICATE. FDR didn't have the balls to kick the banking oligarchs to the curb and tell them that we would do like Lincoln did and print our our currency backed by gold...oh no, FDR made everyone turn in their gold under the penalty of jail and fines in exchange for a fiat currency i.e "Federal Reserve NOTES". FDR made us all indentured debt slaves to the banking cabal...hope this sets your stupid ass ]straight. If people really knew what a sorry pos FDR was? They would spit on the ground when his initials are mentioned...I know that I do....
> 
> 
> 
> Nut job opinions with loads of distortions and misinformation. If all the crap in your post were accurate the policies and programs of FDR would not be still key programs 80 years after they were  first introduced and implemented.
Click to expand...

 Dude, I know more, comprehend more than you could ever fathom...reading and researching is ALL I do...you get your information from the lamestream media and I bet you haven't read a complete book of any genre in many year. I average a 300 plus page book every few days. I soak up information like a sponge with the ability to do the proper vetting of said information. You won't make so much as a zit on my ass in my world, punkinpuss...you see? I know more than you.


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever the leftists attempt to declare the alleged "Greatness of FDR"? I have to fight back the feelings of wanting to go "postal"......the man was just that much of a POS. Had I been around in 1933, I would have tied cement blocks around his crippled legs and dumped him in the Potomac River with great gusto and joy.
> 
> Allow me to inform you what FDR did to the American people......when USA.INC declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy due to the debt incurred by the orchestrated crash of 1929, FDR pledged every person born after March 5th, 1933 as collateral on the debt of the international bankers that hijacked our monetary system via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Up until 1933, there was no such thing as a "birth certificate" because there was no need for one. FDR pledged our future earnings, taxes and other "gubermint" fees as collateral. Your birth certificate was printed on bond paper from which they create a corporate fiction using your all caps name (which is your "strawman"). Look at your  driver's license, social security card, the copy of your birth certificate... any bill that you receive, any notice from the court and you will see that your name is always in all caps...that is your corporate fiction and your birth certificate  that was created enters you into contract and gives that bond value based on the commerce, taxes and other "gubermint" fees that you will pay over your lifetime.  It matures and starts gaining value when you turn 18 and the banking oligarchs collect the balance of that bond with your death CERTIFICATE. FDR didn't have the balls to kick the banking oligarchs to the curb and tell them that we would do like Lincoln did and print our our currency backed by gold...oh no, FDR made everyone turn in their gold under the penalty of jail and fines in exchange for a fiat currency i.e "Federal Reserve NOTES". FDR made us all indentured debt slaves to the banking cabal...hope this sets your stupid ass ]straight. If people really knew what a sorry pos FDR was? They would spit on the ground when his initials are mentioned...I know that I do....
> 
> 
> 
> Nut job opinions with loads of distortions and misinformation. If all the crap in your post were accurate the policies and programs of FDR would not be still key programs 80 years after they were  first introduced and implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, I know more, comprehend more than you could ever fathom...reading and researching is ALL I do...you get your information from the lamestream media and I bet you haven't read a complete book of any genre in many year. I average a 300 plus page book every few days. I soak up information like a sponge with the ability to do the proper vetting of said information. You won't make so much as a zit on my ass in my world, punkinpuss...you see? I know more than you.
Click to expand...

Sure Fredo......your smart


----------



## Moonglow

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whenever the leftists attempt to declare the alleged "Greatness of FDR"? I have to fight back the feelings of wanting to go "postal"......the man was just that much of a POS. Had I been around in 1933, I would have tied cement blocks around his crippled legs and dumped him in the Potomac River with great gusto and joy.
> 
> Allow me to inform you what FDR did to the American people......when USA.INC declared Chapter 11 bankruptcy due to the debt incurred by the orchestrated crash of 1929, FDR pledged every person born after March 5th, 1933 as collateral on the debt of the international bankers that hijacked our monetary system via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Up until 1933, there was no such thing as a "birth certificate" because there was no need for one. FDR pledged our future earnings, taxes and other "gubermint" fees as collateral. Your birth certificate was printed on bond paper from which they create a corporate fiction using your all caps name (which is your "strawman"). Look at your  driver's license, social security card, the copy of your birth certificate... any bill that you receive, any notice from the court and you will see that your name is always in all caps...that is your corporate fiction and your birth certificate  that was created enters you into contract and gives that bond value based on the commerce, taxes and other "gubermint" fees that you will pay over your lifetime.  It matures and starts gaining value when you turn 18 and the banking oligarchs collect the balance of that bond with your death CERTIFICATE. FDR didn't have the balls to kick the banking oligarchs to the curb and tell them that we would do like Lincoln did and print our our currency backed by gold...oh no, FDR made everyone turn in their gold under the penalty of jail and fines in exchange for a fiat currency i.e "Federal Reserve NOTES". FDR made us all indentured debt slaves to the banking cabal...hope this sets your stupid ass ]straight. If people really knew what a sorry pos FDR was? They would spit on the ground when his initials are mentioned...I know that I do....
> 
> 
> 
> Nut job opinions with loads of distortions and misinformation. If all the crap in your post were accurate the policies and programs of FDR would not be still key programs 80 years after they were  first introduced and implemented.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dude, I know more, comprehend more than you could ever fathom...reading and researching is ALL I do...you get your information from the lamestream media and I bet you haven't read a complete book of any genre in many year. I average a 300 plus page book every few days. I soak up information like a sponge with the ability to do the proper vetting of said information. You won't make so much as a zit on my ass in my world, punkinpuss...you see? I know more than you.
Click to expand...

We can tell, by your maturity level of speech...


----------



## NLT

FDR first president to be married to a Bull Dyke, Bill Clinton is #2 and Obama is #3


----------



## Moonglow

NLT said:


> FDR first president to be married to a Bull Dyke, Bill Clinton is #2 and Obama is #3


They were blue bloods, what do you expect?


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LIAR. Your nonsense is based on conspiracy theory crap that you can not back up. Your theory has been around for 75 years and has never been anything other than a conspiracy theory. Facts have proven your nonsense to be nonsense.
> FDR had to contend with the isolationist and Neutrality Act up until 1940 when the Tea Party of that era were exposed for the idiots they were and the nation started paying attention to the growing threats from the Axis, including Japan.
Click to expand...



Nope, I am 100 percent correct and your revisionist history is 100 percent wrong. FDR allowed 1,600 sailors to die for a lie when he knew that the intel they had would have prevented it almost a year before Pearl Harbor....100 percent correct. FDR's military leaders even allowed sailors that survived the attack to die when they could have  been saved. They sent been saved...think about it....these sailors sent Morse code messages for weeks before they finally died and no effort was made to save them...none....nada, zilch....chew on that the next time you hear the national anthem or see old glory waving in the wind.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

guno said:


> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CrusaderFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> He' admired by Stalin and Mao -- forever
> 
> 
> 
> Sure that's why he funded the nationals...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He helped Mao. He fucked over the Nationals in favor of Progressive Mao
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He whipped the Goombas with one had tired behind his back and they folded like cheap spaghetti
> 
> Italian war maneuvers
Click to expand...


LOL

Like we really cared.

We ruled the entire world for centuries.


----------



## Moonglow

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LIAR. Your nonsense is based on conspiracy theory crap that you can not back up. Your theory has been around for 75 years and has never been anything other than a conspiracy theory. Facts have proven your nonsense to be nonsense.
> FDR had to contend with the isolationist and Neutrality Act up until 1940 when the Tea Party of that era were exposed for the idiots they were and the nation started paying attention to the growing threats from the Axis, including Japan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I am 100 percent correct and your revisionist history is 100 percent wrong. FDR allowed 1,600 sailors to die for a lie when he knew that the intel they had would have prevented it almost a year before Pearl Harbor....100 percent correct. FDR's military leaders even allowed sailors that survived the attack to die when they could have  been saved. They sent been saved...think about it....these sailors sent Morse code messages for weeks before they finally died and no effort was made to save them...none....nada, zilch....chew on that the next time you hear the national anthem or see old glory waving in the wind.
Click to expand...

I have noticed how you have not posted anything to back up your assumptions...


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LIAR. Your nonsense is based on conspiracy theory crap that you can not back up. Your theory has been around for 75 years and has never been anything other than a conspiracy theory. Facts have proven your nonsense to be nonsense.
> FDR had to contend with the isolationist and Neutrality Act up until 1940 when the Tea Party of that era were exposed for the idiots they were and the nation started paying attention to the growing threats from the Axis, including Japan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I am 100 percent correct and your revisionist history is 100 percent wrong. FDR allowed 1,600 sailors to die for a lie when he knew that the intel they had would have prevented it almost a year before Pearl Harbor....100 percent correct. FDR's military leaders even allowed sailors that survived the attack to die when they could have  been saved. They sent been saved...think about it....these sailors sent Morse code messages for weeks before they finally died and no effort was made to save them...none....nada, zilch....chew on that the next time you hear the national anthem or see old glory waving in the wind.
Click to expand...

Prove it. Show us where you got that lie.


----------



## rightwinger

NLT said:


> FDR first president to be married to a Bull Dyke, Bill Clinton is #2 and Obama is #3


Sad....that is the best conservatives can come up with


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LIAR. Your nonsense is based on conspiracy theory crap that you can not back up. Your theory has been around for 75 years and has never been anything other than a conspiracy theory. Facts have proven your nonsense to be nonsense.
> FDR had to contend with the isolationist and Neutrality Act up until 1940 when the Tea Party of that era were exposed for the idiots they were and the nation started paying attention to the growing threats from the Axis, including Japan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I am 100 percent correct and your revisionist history is 100 percent wrong. FDR allowed 1,600 sailors to die for a lie when he knew that the intel they had would have prevented it almost a year before Pearl Harbor....100 percent correct. FDR's military leaders even allowed sailors that survived the attack to die when they could have  been saved. They sent been saved...think about it....these sailors sent Morse code messages for weeks before they finally died and no effort was made to save them...none....nada, zilch....chew on that the next time you hear the national anthem or see old glory waving in the wind.
Click to expand...

Same old rightwing conspiracy theory




.


----------



## regent

Dale Smith said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
Click to expand...



Did the Japanese have more than one code or was one code it and FDR knew the code?


----------



## mamooth

There were many Japanese codes

Japanese naval codes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The USA eventually broke all of them. However, the JN-25 code used by the Japanese at the time of Pearl Harbor had not been broken by the USA at that time.


----------



## mamooth

Dale Smith said:


> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count



Dale here has an extremely low of opinion of the integrity and valor of US fighting men. According to Dale here, sailors  deliberately left their friends and shipmates to die because they got an order from FDR. Yeah, right.

Oh, there were no sunken submarines at Pearl Harbor. And the only capsized ships were Oklahoma and Utah, where rescue parties did cut through the hull to save trapped men. That is, Dale is peddling a pure fantasy.


----------



## whitehall

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda bubble that the FDR legacy rests on is awesome. FDR was elected in 1932 and under his ineffective "leadership" the relatively mild recession turned into a freaking bodies in the ditch soup line depression for his next two terms. FDR appointed a former KKK member to the supreme court and the bigot paid him back with a judicial decision that justified incarcerating American citizens and confiscating their property without due process. The FDR administration's racist view of the Japanese led to one of the most notorious examples of negligence in American history when the Japanese killed 3,000 Americans in the Pearl Harbor attack. Thanks to the unrelenting propaganda of the fawning media the Pearl Harbor attack was viewed as some sort of victory. Democrats finally wheeled a virtual corpse around to campaign for his 4th term and true to form the media pretended that FDR was healthy while he was practically comatose due to several strokes. The DNC knew it and dumped the sitting V.P. while he was on vacation and hired a successor. FDR lasted about three months into his 4th term and his medical records disappeared.  Almost everything we were taught about the FDR years was political propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> You were doing fine until you characterized the Great Depression as a "mild recession"
> I stopped reading after that
Click to expand...

I assume you stopped reading a long time ago. The "Great Depression" went on for FDR's first two terms while Hitler rose in power in Germany and FDR seemed oblivious.. WW2 got us out of the depression but it also killed off the best and the bravest of an entire generation. Just as the liberal media kept Woodie Wilson's stroke a secret while his wife allegedly ran the country so did they keep FDR's medical condition secret as he slipped into mental deterioration in his 3rd and 4th terms.


----------



## rightwinger

whitehall said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda bubble that the FDR legacy rests on is awesome. FDR was elected in 1932 and under his ineffective "leadership" the relatively mild recession turned into a freaking bodies in the ditch soup line depression for his next two terms. FDR appointed a former KKK member to the supreme court and the bigot paid him back with a judicial decision that justified incarcerating American citizens and confiscating their property without due process. The FDR administration's racist view of the Japanese led to one of the most notorious examples of negligence in American history when the Japanese killed 3,000 Americans in the Pearl Harbor attack. Thanks to the unrelenting propaganda of the fawning media the Pearl Harbor attack was viewed as some sort of victory. Democrats finally wheeled a virtual corpse around to campaign for his 4th term and true to form the media pretended that FDR was healthy while he was practically comatose due to several strokes. The DNC knew it and dumped the sitting V.P. while he was on vacation and hired a successor. FDR lasted about three months into his 4th term and his medical records disappeared.  Almost everything we were taught about the FDR years was political propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> You were doing fine until you characterized the Great Depression as a "mild recession"
> I stopped reading after that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I assume you stopped reading a long time ago. The "Great Depression" went on for FDR's first two terms while Hitler rose in power in Germany and FDR seemed oblivious.. WW2 got us out of the depression but it also killed off the best and the bravest of an entire generation. Just as the liberal media kept Woodie Wilson's stroke a secret while his wife allegedly ran the country so did they keep FDR's medical condition secret as he slipped into mental deterioration in his 3rd and 4th terms.
Click to expand...


Hard to recover from 25% unemployment. The Great Depression had been going on for three years when FDR took office. Republicans......"Prosperity is just around the corner" was a lie

FDR took positive action and people returned to work. His only fault was to try to balance a budget in 1937 and recession returned.


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda bubble that the FDR legacy rests on is awesome. FDR was elected in 1932 and under his ineffective "leadership" the relatively mild recession turned into a freaking bodies in the ditch soup line depression for his next two terms. FDR appointed a former KKK member to the supreme court and the bigot paid him back with a judicial decision that justified incarcerating American citizens and confiscating their property without due process. The FDR administration's racist view of the Japanese led to one of the most notorious examples of negligence in American history when the Japanese killed 3,000 Americans in the Pearl Harbor attack. Thanks to the unrelenting propaganda of the fawning media the Pearl Harbor attack was viewed as some sort of victory. Democrats finally wheeled a virtual corpse around to campaign for his 4th term and true to form the media pretended that FDR was healthy while he was practically comatose due to several strokes. The DNC knew it and dumped the sitting V.P. while he was on vacation and hired a successor. FDR lasted about three months into his 4th term and his medical records disappeared.  Almost everything we were taught about the FDR years was political propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> You were doing fine until you characterized the Great Depression as a "mild recession"
> I stopped reading after that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I assume you stopped reading a long time ago. The "Great Depression" went on for FDR's first two terms while Hitler rose in power in Germany and FDR seemed oblivious.. WW2 got us out of the depression but it also killed off the best and the bravest of an entire generation. Just as the liberal media kept Woodie Wilson's stroke a secret while his wife allegedly ran the country so did they keep FDR's medical condition secret as he slipped into mental deterioration in his 3rd and 4th terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hard to recover from 25% unemployment. The Great Depression had been going on for three years when FDR took office. Republicans......"Prosperity is just around the corner" was a lie
> 
> FDR took positive action and people returned to work. His only fault was to try to balance a budget in 1937 and recession returned.
Click to expand...

Yep... FDR fixed unemployment by forcing the nation into a war that should have been avoided and all to support his uncle in Moscow


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda bubble that the FDR legacy rests on is awesome. FDR was elected in 1932 and under his ineffective "leadership" the relatively mild recession turned into a freaking bodies in the ditch soup line depression for his next two terms. FDR appointed a former KKK member to the supreme court and the bigot paid him back with a judicial decision that justified incarcerating American citizens and confiscating their property without due process. The FDR administration's racist view of the Japanese led to one of the most notorious examples of negligence in American history when the Japanese killed 3,000 Americans in the Pearl Harbor attack. Thanks to the unrelenting propaganda of the fawning media the Pearl Harbor attack was viewed as some sort of victory. Democrats finally wheeled a virtual corpse around to campaign for his 4th term and true to form the media pretended that FDR was healthy while he was practically comatose due to several strokes. The DNC knew it and dumped the sitting V.P. while he was on vacation and hired a successor. FDR lasted about three months into his 4th term and his medical records disappeared.  Almost everything we were taught about the FDR years was political propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> You were doing fine until you characterized the Great Depression as a "mild recession"
> I stopped reading after that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I assume you stopped reading a long time ago. The "Great Depression" went on for FDR's first two terms while Hitler rose in power in Germany and FDR seemed oblivious.. WW2 got us out of the depression but it also killed off the best and the bravest of an entire generation. Just as the liberal media kept Woodie Wilson's stroke a secret while his wife allegedly ran the country so did they keep FDR's medical condition secret as he slipped into mental deterioration in his 3rd and 4th terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hard to recover from 25% unemployment. The Great Depression had been going on for three years when FDR took office. Republicans......"Prosperity is just around the corner" was a lie
> 
> FDR took positive action and people returned to work. His only fault was to try to balance a budget in 1937 and recession returned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep... FDR fixed unemployment by forcing the nation into a war that should have been avoided and all to support his uncle in Moscow
Click to expand...


Good god...are you still isolationist after all we have learned?


----------



## regent

What were the Republican approved methods for coping with an economic depression in 1929?
Did Hoover use the Republican approved methods during his presidency?
Are the Republican approved methods of coping with a depression the same today as 1929 or have they changed? 
If they have changed, what are they today?


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LIAR. Your nonsense is based on conspiracy theory crap that you can not back up. Your theory has been around for 75 years and has never been anything other than a conspiracy theory. Facts have proven your nonsense to be nonsense.
> FDR had to contend with the isolationist and Neutrality Act up until 1940 when the Tea Party of that era were exposed for the idiots they were and the nation started paying attention to the growing threats from the Axis, including Japan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I am 100 percent correct and your revisionist history is 100 percent wrong. FDR allowed 1,600 sailors to die for a lie when he knew that the intel they had would have prevented it almost a year before Pearl Harbor....100 percent correct. FDR's military leaders even allowed sailors that survived the attack to die when they could have  been saved. They sent been saved...think about it....these sailors sent Morse code messages for weeks before they finally died and no effort was made to save them...none....nada, zilch....chew on that the next time you hear the national anthem or see old glory waving in the wind.
Click to expand...

Another talker bragging about how smart he is. Either can't figure out how to post a link or can't find links to post.


----------



## rightwinger

regent said:


> What were the Republican approved methods for coping with an economic depression in 1929?
> Did Hoover use the Republican approved methods during his presidency?
> Are the Republican approved methods of coping with a depression the same today as 1929 or have they changed?
> If they have changed, what are they today?


Mostly the same.......things will take care of themselves, prosperity is just around the corner

Wait for a democrat to come in and fix things.......then blame everything on the democrats


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda bubble that the FDR legacy rests on is awesome. FDR was elected in 1932 and under his ineffective "leadership" the relatively mild recession turned into a freaking bodies in the ditch soup line depression for his next two terms. FDR appointed a former KKK member to the supreme court and the bigot paid him back with a judicial decision that justified incarcerating American citizens and confiscating their property without due process. The FDR administration's racist view of the Japanese led to one of the most notorious examples of negligence in American history when the Japanese killed 3,000 Americans in the Pearl Harbor attack. Thanks to the unrelenting propaganda of the fawning media the Pearl Harbor attack was viewed as some sort of victory. Democrats finally wheeled a virtual corpse around to campaign for his 4th term and true to form the media pretended that FDR was healthy while he was practically comatose due to several strokes. The DNC knew it and dumped the sitting V.P. while he was on vacation and hired a successor. FDR lasted about three months into his 4th term and his medical records disappeared.  Almost everything we were taught about the FDR years was political propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> You were doing fine until you characterized the Great Depression as a "mild recession"
> I stopped reading after that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I assume you stopped reading a long time ago. The "Great Depression" went on for FDR's first two terms while Hitler rose in power in Germany and FDR seemed oblivious.. WW2 got us out of the depression but it also killed off the best and the bravest of an entire generation. Just as the liberal media kept Woodie Wilson's stroke a secret while his wife allegedly ran the country so did they keep FDR's medical condition secret as he slipped into mental deterioration in his 3rd and 4th terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hard to recover from 25% unemployment. The Great Depression had been going on for three years when FDR took office. Republicans......"Prosperity is just around the corner" was a lie
> 
> FDR took positive action and people returned to work. His only fault was to try to balance a budget in 1937 and recession returned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep... FDR fixed unemployment by forcing the nation into a war that should have been avoided and all to support his uncle in Moscow
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good god...are you still isolationist after all we have learned?
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with isolation.  Just the truth old boy.


----------



## gipper

regent said:


> What were the Republican approved methods for coping with an economic depression in 1929?
> Did Hoover use the Republican approved methods during his presidency?
> Are the Republican approved methods of coping with a depression the same today as 1929 or have they changed?
> If they have changed, what are they today?


There is little difference in the methods used by Hoover and FDR...big gov all the time.


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were doing fine until you characterized the Great Depression as a "mild recession"
> I stopped reading after that
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you stopped reading a long time ago. The "Great Depression" went on for FDR's first two terms while Hitler rose in power in Germany and FDR seemed oblivious.. WW2 got us out of the depression but it also killed off the best and the bravest of an entire generation. Just as the liberal media kept Woodie Wilson's stroke a secret while his wife allegedly ran the country so did they keep FDR's medical condition secret as he slipped into mental deterioration in his 3rd and 4th terms.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hard to recover from 25% unemployment. The Great Depression had been going on for three years when FDR took office. Republicans......"Prosperity is just around the corner" was a lie
> 
> FDR took positive action and people returned to work. His only fault was to try to balance a budget in 1937 and recession returned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep... FDR fixed unemployment by forcing the nation into a war that should have been avoided and all to support his uncle in Moscow
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good god...are you still isolationist after all we have learned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing to do with isolation.  Just the truth old boy.
Click to expand...

You sound just like the cowardly Republicans of 39-41 who objected to FDR preparing our country for war


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> What were the Republican approved methods for coping with an economic depression in 1929?
> Did Hoover use the Republican approved methods during his presidency?
> Are the Republican approved methods of coping with a depression the same today as 1929 or have they changed?
> If they have changed, what are they today?
> 
> 
> 
> There is little difference in the methods used by Hoover and FDR...big gov all the time.
Click to expand...

There was a huge change. Hoover still believed that the focus of government and the primary attention and purpose was the support of industry and business. The generally held belief was that as long as business and industry did good the nation's economy would do good and the well-being of the masses would follow. Basically, the trickle down theory. FDR changed all of that and the trickle downers have been whining and trying to get it back ever since. FDR proved that boosting up the poor and masses worked better to improve the nation's economic position. When the masses have money they spend it and business and industry benefits. Every government and President, Republican, Democrat and combinations of each have followed FDR's policies to one degree or another and in fact kept many of them in place. Only the most misinformed and radical elements of the propagandized rw want to go back 80 year to when masses of citizens were starving and homeless.


----------



## edthecynic

Unkotare said:


> Worst US President ever - by far.


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you stopped reading a long time ago. The "Great Depression" went on for FDR's first two terms while Hitler rose in power in Germany and FDR seemed oblivious.. WW2 got us out of the depression but it also killed off the best and the bravest of an entire generation. Just as the liberal media kept Woodie Wilson's stroke a secret while his wife allegedly ran the country so did they keep FDR's medical condition secret as he slipped into mental deterioration in his 3rd and 4th terms.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to recover from 25% unemployment. The Great Depression had been going on for three years when FDR took office. Republicans......"Prosperity is just around the corner" was a lie
> 
> FDR took positive action and people returned to work. His only fault was to try to balance a budget in 1937 and recession returned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep... FDR fixed unemployment by forcing the nation into a war that should have been avoided and all to support his uncle in Moscow
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good god...are you still isolationist after all we have learned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing to do with isolation.  Just the truth old boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sound just like the cowardly Republicans of 39-41 who objected to FDR preparing our country for war
Click to expand...

If you knew and understood the history of the event, you would agree that there was no need to prepare for war.

Politicians, no matter R or D, are scum and must never be trusted.  FDR was the leading scumbag of all time.


----------



## regent

The sad fact is that until the Great Depressions, depressions and recessions were thought of as normal and had to run their course. With the Great one, that became scary, revolutions and all that. If any president could have led the nation in another direction it was FDR but that was never his intent. FDR said when elected he would try different things and he did, In 37 and 38 with signs of recovery they were fearful of the economy going in another direction so the New Deal was toned down but it was too quick. There are and were no instruction books on depressions and the only solution we have now is still Keynes.
Perhaps the difference between the Republican approach and the Democratic one was the Democrats put the American people first; No more expecting kids to go through garbage cans to find something to eat.


----------



## gipper

regent said:


> The sad fact is that until the Great Depressions, depressions and recessions were thought of as normal and had to run their course. With the Great one, that became scary, revolutions and all that. If any president could have led the nation in another direction it was FDR but that was never his intent. FDR said when elected he would try different things and he did, In 37 and 38 with signs of recovery they were fearful of the economy going in another direction so the New Deal was toned down but it was too quick. There are and were no instruction books on depressions and the only solution we have now is still Keynes.
> Perhaps the difference between the Republican approach and the Democratic one was the Democrats put the American people first; No more expecting kids to go through garbage cans to find something to eat.


The sad fact is FDR PROLONGED the Great Depression with his childish and ignorant economic policies.  Then pushed the nation into a disastrous war, to keep his disgusting diseased ass in power.

Sadly, your government paid historians have failed you once again...but then, you must learn to think for yourself and at this late date, that seems most unlikely.


----------



## mamooth

Some people have never forgiven FDR for beating the Nazis.


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## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to recover from 25% unemployment. The Great Depression had been going on for three years when FDR took office. Republicans......"Prosperity is just around the corner" was a lie
> 
> FDR took positive action and people returned to work. His only fault was to try to balance a budget in 1937 and recession returned.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep... FDR fixed unemployment by forcing the nation into a war that should have been avoided and all to support his uncle in Moscow
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Good god...are you still isolationist after all we have learned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing to do with isolation.  Just the truth old boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sound just like the cowardly Republicans of 39-41 who objected to FDR preparing our country for war
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you knew and understood the history of the event, you would agree that there was no need to prepare for war.
> 
> Politicians, no matter R or D, are scum and must never be trusted.  FDR was the leading scumbag of all time.
Click to expand...

No need?

Never heard of Pearl Harbor or the Phillipines?


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is that until the Great Depressions, depressions and recessions were thought of as normal and had to run their course. With the Great one, that became scary, revolutions and all that. If any president could have led the nation in another direction it was FDR but that was never his intent. FDR said when elected he would try different things and he did, In 37 and 38 with signs of recovery they were fearful of the economy going in another direction so the New Deal was toned down but it was too quick. There are and were no instruction books on depressions and the only solution we have now is still Keynes.
> Perhaps the difference between the Republican approach and the Democratic one was the Democrats put the American people first; No more expecting kids to go through garbage cans to find something to eat.
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is FDR PROLONGED the Great Depression with his childish and ignorant economic policies.  Then pushed the nation into a disastrous war, to keep his disgusting diseased ass in power.
> 
> Sadly, your government paid historians have failed you once again...but then, you must learn to think for yourself and at this late date, that seems most unlikely.
Click to expand...


Interesting point

FDR was told that by investing in our capitalists instead of with the workers he could do more in the long run

FDR replied people do not eat in the long run


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep... FDR fixed unemployment by forcing the nation into a war that should have been avoided and all to support his uncle in Moscow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good god...are you still isolationist after all we have learned?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing to do with isolation.  Just the truth old boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sound just like the cowardly Republicans of 39-41 who objected to FDR preparing our country for war
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you knew and understood the history of the event, you would agree that there was no need to prepare for war.
> 
> Politicians, no matter R or D, are scum and must never be trusted.  FDR was the leading scumbag of all time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need?
> 
> Never heard of Pearl Harbor or the Phillipines?
Click to expand...

Again...if you knew the truth, you would know Uncle Joe's best bud set it all up to save Soviet Communism.


----------



## gipper

mamooth said:


> Some people have never forgiven FDR for beating the Nazis.


You have that wrong...let me fix it for you.  Some people have never forgiven FDR for saving Soviet Communism.


----------



## mamooth

But FDR did beat the Soviets, or at least he set things up to beat the Soviets, and he did it without a global war that would have killed hundreds of millions. Another amazing success by FDR.


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## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good god...are you still isolationist after all we have learned?
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing to do with isolation.  Just the truth old boy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You sound just like the cowardly Republicans of 39-41 who objected to FDR preparing our country for war
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you knew and understood the history of the event, you would agree that there was no need to prepare for war.
> 
> Politicians, no matter R or D, are scum and must never be trusted.  FDR was the leading scumbag of all time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No need?
> 
> Never heard of Pearl Harbor or the Phillipines?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again...if you knew the truth, you would know Uncle Joe's best bud set it all up to save Soviet Communism.
Click to expand...


Any other fantasies you would like to share?


----------



## rightwinger

mamooth said:


> But FDR did beat the Soviets, or at least he set things up to beat the Soviets, and he did it without a global war that would have killed hundreds of millions. Another amazing success by FDR.



He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> .... the Democrats put the American people first; .....


----------



## Indeependent

gipper said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some people have never forgiven FDR for beating the Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> You have that wrong...let me fix it for you.  Some people have never forgiven FDR for saving Soviet Communism.
Click to expand...

Are you naturally dull or do you require practice?


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> mamooth said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some people have never forgiven FDR for beating the Nazis.
> 
> 
> 
> You have that wrong...let me fix it for you.  Some people have never forgiven FDR for saving Soviet Communism.
Click to expand...

And by doing that, he also saved all of Western Europe

Looks like we got the best part of the deal


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## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LIAR. Your nonsense is based on conspiracy theory crap that you can not back up. Your theory has been around for 75 years and has never been anything other than a conspiracy theory. Facts have proven your nonsense to be nonsense.
> FDR had to contend with the isolationist and Neutrality Act up until 1940 when the Tea Party of that era were exposed for the idiots they were and the nation started paying attention to the growing threats from the Axis, including Japan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I am 100 percent correct and your revisionist history is 100 percent wrong. FDR allowed 1,600 sailors to die for a lie when he knew that the intel they had would have prevented it almost a year before Pearl Harbor....100 percent correct. FDR's military leaders even allowed sailors that survived the attack to die when they could have  been saved. They sent been saved...think about it....these sailors sent Morse code messages for weeks before they finally died and no effort was made to save them...none....nada, zilch....chew on that the next time you hear the national anthem or see old glory waving in the wind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another talker bragging about how smart he is. Either can't figure out how to post a link or can't find links to post.[/QUOTE
> 
> Do your own  fucking research instead of begging to be spoon fed. Leftards have got to be the laziest fuckwads on this planet.
Click to expand...


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

rightwinger said:


> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe



Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.


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## Sun Devil 92

Moonglow said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh please, do find a history book to read.
> 
> I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Strategy and tactics were devised by the military leadership and presented to FDR, who never served in the military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was Assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI...But then again Lincoln had no real experience either...
Click to expand...


And the North nearly lost.


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## Sun Devil 92

FDR....one of the most overrated presidents ever.


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## Unkotare

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, do find a history book to read.
> 
> I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Strategy and tactics were devised by the military leadership and presented to FDR, who never served in the military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was Assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI...But then again Lincoln had no real experience either...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the North nearly lost.
Click to expand...



No, the North did not nearly lose.


----------



## regent

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
Click to expand...

These are the history boards and one is not required  to provide historical references, one  only has to think it is history and bingo it is. It is called the think-method of history, and many use it on these boards.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> 
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LIAR. Your nonsense is based on conspiracy theory crap that you can not back up. Your theory has been around for 75 years and has never been anything other than a conspiracy theory. Facts have proven your nonsense to be nonsense.
> FDR had to contend with the isolationist and Neutrality Act up until 1940 when the Tea Party of that era were exposed for the idiots they were and the nation started paying attention to the growing threats from the Axis, including Japan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I am 100 percent correct and your revisionist history is 100 percent wrong. FDR allowed 1,600 sailors to die for a lie when he knew that the intel they had would have prevented it almost a year before Pearl Harbor....100 percent correct. FDR's military leaders even allowed sailors that survived the attack to die when they could have  been saved. They sent been saved...think about it....these sailors sent Morse code messages for weeks before they finally died and no effort was made to save them...none....nada, zilch....chew on that the next time you hear the national anthem or see old glory waving in the wind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another talker bragging about how smart he is. Either can't figure out how to post a link or can't find links to post.[/QUOTE
> 
> Do your own  fucking research instead of begging to be spoon fed. Leftards have got to be the laziest fuckwads on this planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Lame loser can't even submit a quote and posting. He wants to make wild claims and demand everyone else do "research" to prove the case he can not prove himself.
No one is begging you for anything loser. When you make a claim you are the one who has to prove it. The whole point of the argument is that you can not provide a link because a valid one doesn't exist that will confirm your nonsense.


----------



## Dale Smith

Here ya go, ya lazy fuck....

On Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan launched a sneak attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, shattering the peace of a beautiful Hawaiian morning and leaving much of the fleet broken and burning. The destruction and death that the Japanese military visited upon Pearl Harbor that day — 18 naval vessels (including eight battleships) sunk or heavily damaged, 188 planes destroyed, over 2,000 servicemen killed — were exacerbated by the fact that American commanders in Hawaii were caught by surprise. But that was not the case in Washington.

Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. Oliver Lyttleton, British Minister of Production, stated in 1944: "Japan was provoked into attacking America at Pearl Harbor. It is a travesty of history to say that America was forced into the war."

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Although FDR desired to directly involve the United States in the Second World War, his intentions sharply contradicted his public pronouncements. A pre-war Gallup poll showed 88 percent of Americans opposed U.S. involvement in the European war. Citizens realized that U.S. participation in World War I had not made a better world, and in a 1940 (election-year) speech, Roosevelt typically stated: "I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars."

But privately, the president planned the opposite. Roosevelt dispatched his closest advisor, Harry Hopkins, to meet British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in January 1941. Hopkins told Churchill: "The President is determined that we [the United States and England] shall win the war together. Make no mistake about it. He has sent me here to tell you that at all costs and by all means he will carry you through, no matter what happens to him — there is nothing he will not do so far as he has human power." William Stevenson noted in A Man Called Intrepid that American-British military staff talks began that same month under "utmost secrecy," which, he clarified, "meant preventing disclosure to the American public." Even Robert Sherwood, the president's friendly biographer, said: "If the isolationists had known the full extent of the secret alliance between the United States and Britain, their demands for impeachment would have rumbled like thunder throughout the land."

Background to Betrayal

Roosevelt's intentions were nearly exposed in 1940 when Tyler Kent, a code clerk at the U.S. embassy in London, discovered secret dispatches between Roosevelt and Churchill. These revealed that FDR — despite contrary campaign promises — was determined to engage America in the war. Kent smuggled some of the documents out of the embassy, hoping to alert the American public — but was caught. With U.S. government approval, he was tried in a secret British court and confined to a British prison until the war's end.

During World War II's early days, the president offered numerous provocations to Germany: freezing its assets; shipping 50 destroyers to Britain; and depth-charging U-boats. The Germans did not retaliate, however. They knew America's entry into World War I had shifted the balance of power against them, and they shunned a repeat of that scenario. FDR therefore switched his focus to Japan. Japan had signed a mutual defense pact with Germany and Italy (the Tripartite Treaty). Roosevelt knew that if Japan went to war with the United States, Germany and Italy would be compelled to declare war on America — thus entangling us in the European conflict by the back door. As Harold Ickes, secretary of the Interior, said in October 1941: "For a long time I have believed that our best entrance into the war would be by way of Japan."

Much new light has been shed on Pearl Harbor through the recent work of Robert B. Stinnett, a World War II Navy veteran. Stinnett has obtained numerous relevant documents through the Freedom of Information Act. In Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor (2000), the book so brusquely dismissed by director Bruckheimer, Stinnett reveals that Roosevelt's plan to provoke Japan began with a memorandum from Lieutenant Commander Arthur H. McCollum, head of the Far East desk of the Office of Naval Intelligence. The memorandum advocated eight actions predicted to lead Japan into attacking the United States. McCollum wrote: "If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better." FDR enacted all eight of McCollum's provocative steps — and more.

While no one can excuse Japan's belligerence in those days, it is also true that our government provoked that country in various ways — freezing her assets in America; closing the Panama Canal to her shipping; progressively halting vital exports to Japan until we finally joined Britain in an all-out embargo; sending a hostile note to the Japanese ambassador implying military threats if Tokyo did not alter its Pacific policies; and on November 26th — just 11 days before the Japanese attack — delivering an ultimatum that demanded, as prerequisites to resumed trade, that Japan withdraw all troops from China and Indochina, and in effect abrogate her Tripartite Treaty with Germany and Italy.

After meeting with President Roosevelt on October 16, 1941, Secretary of War Henry Stimson wrote in his diary: "We face the delicate question of the diplomatic fencing to be done so as to be sure Japan is put into the wrong and makes the first bad move — overt move." On November 25, the day before the ultimatum was sent to Japan's ambassadors, Stimson wrote in his diary: "The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot...."

The bait offered Japan was our Pacific Fleet. In 1940, Admiral J.O. Richardson, the fleet's commander, flew to Washington to protest FDR's decision to permanently base the fleet in Hawaii instead of its normal berthing on the U.S. West Coast. The admiral had sound reasons: Pearl Harbor was vulnerable to attack, being approachable from any direction; it could not be effectively rigged with nets and baffles to defend against torpedo planes; and in Hawaii it would be hard to supply and train crews for his undermanned vessels. Pearl Harbor also lacked adequate fuel supplies and dry docks, and keeping men far from their families would create morale problems. The argument became heated. Said Richardson: "I came away with the impression that, despite his spoken word, the President was fully determined to put the United States into the war if Great Britain could hold out until he was reelected."

Richardson was quickly relieved of command. Replacing him was Admiral Husband E. Kimmel. Kimmel also informed Roosevelt of Pearl Harbor's deficiencies, but accepted placement there, trusting that Washington would notify him of any intelligence pointing to attack. This proved to be misplaced trust. As Washington watched Japan preparing to assault Pearl Harbor, Admiral Kimmel, as well as his Army counterpart in Hawaii, General Walter C. Short, were completely sealed off from the information pipeline.

Prior Knowledge

One of the most important elements in America's foreknowledge of Japan's intentions was our government's success in cracking Japan's secret diplomatic code known as "Purple." Tokyo used it to communicate to its embassies and consulates, including those in Washington and Hawaii. The code was so complex that it was enciphered and deciphered by machine. A talented group of American cryptoanalysts broke the code in 1940 and devised a facsimile of the Japanese machine. These, utilized by the intelligence sections of both the War and Navy departments, swiftly revealed Japan's diplomatic messages. The deciphered texts were nicknamed "Magic."

Copies of Magic were always promptly delivered in locked pouches to President Roosevelt, and the secretaries of State, War, and Navy. They also went to Army Chief of Staff General George Marshall and to the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Harold Stark. However, although three Purple decoding machines were allotted to Britain, none was sent to Pearl Harbor. Intercepts of ciphered messages radioed between Tokyo and its Honolulu consulate had to be forwarded to Washington for decrypting. Thus Kimmel and Short, the Hawaiian commanders, were at the mercy of Washington for feedback. A request for their own decoding machine was rebuffed on the grounds that diplomatic traffic was of insufficient interest to soldiers.

How untrue that was! On October 9, 1941, the War Department decoded a Tokyo-to-Honolulu dispatch instructing the Consul General to divide Pearl Harbor into five specified areas and to report the exact locations of American ships therein.

There is nothing unusual about spies watching ship movements — but reporting precise whereabouts of ships in dock has only one implication. Charles Willoughby, Douglas MacArthur's chief of intelligence, later wrote that the "reports were on a grid system of the inner harbor with coordinate locations of American men of war ... coordinate grid is the classical method for pinpoint target designation; our battleships had suddenly become targets." This information was never sent to Kimmel or Short.

Additional intercepts were decoded by Washington, all within one day of their original transmission:

• November 5th: Tokyo notified its Washington ambassadors that November 25th was the deadline for an agreement with the U.S.

• November 11th: They were warned, "The situation is nearing a climax, and the time is getting short."

• November 16th: The deadline was pushed up to November 29th. "The deadline absolutely cannot be changed," the dispatch said. "After that, things are automatically going to happen."

• November 29th (the U.S. ultimatum had now been received): The ambassadors were told a rupture in negotiations was "inevitable," but that Japan's leaders "do not wish you to give the impression that negotiations are broken off."

• November 30th: Tokyo ordered its Berlin embassy to inform the Germans that "the breaking out of war may come quicker than anyone dreams."

• December 1st: The deadline was again moved ahead. "[T]o prevent the United States from becoming unduly suspicious, we have been advising the press and others that ... the negotiations are continuing."

• December 1st-2nd: The Japanese embassies in non-Axis nations around the world were directed to dispose of their secret documents and all but one copy of their codes. (This was for a reason easy to fathom — when war breaks out, the diplomatic offices of a hostile state lose their immunity and are normally overtaken. One copy of code was retained so that final instructions could be received, after which the last code copy would be destroyed.)

An additional warning came via the so-called "winds" message. A November 18th intercept indicated that, if a break in U.S. relations were forthcoming, Tokyo would issue a special radio warning. This would not be in the Purple code, as it was intended to reach consulates and lesser agencies of Japan not equipped with the code or one of its machines. The message, to be repeated three times during a weather report, was "Higashi no kaze ame," meaning "East wind, rain." "East wind" signified the United States; "rain" signified diplomatic split — in effect, war.

This prospective message was deemed so significant that U.S. radio monitors were constantly watching for it, and the Navy Department typed it up on special reminder cards. On December 4th, "Higashi no kaze ame" was indeed broadcast and picked up by Washington intelligence.

On three different occasions since 1894, Japan had made surprise attacks coinciding with breaks in diplomatic relations. This history was not lost on President Roosevelt. Secretary Stimson, describing FDR's White House conference of November 25th, noted: "The President said the Japanese were notorious for making an attack without warning and stated that we might be attacked, say next Monday, for example." Nor was it lost on Washington's senior military officers, all of them War College graduates.

As Robert Stinnett has revealed, Washington was not only deciphering Japanese diplomatic messages, but naval dispatches as well. President Roosevelt had access to these intercepts via his routing officer, Lieutenant Commander McCollum, who had authored the original eight-point plan of provocation to Japan. So much secrecy has surrounded these naval dispatches that their existence was not revealed during any of the ten Pearl Harbor investigations, even the mini-probe Congress conducted in 1995. Most of Stinnett's requests for documents concerning Pearl Harbor have been denied as still classified, even under the Freedom of Information Act.

It was long presumed that as the Japanese fleet approached Pearl Harbor, it maintained complete radio silence. This is untrue. The fleet barely observed discretion, let alone silence. Naval intelligence intercepted and translated numerous dispatches, some clearly revealing that Pearl Harbor had been targeted. The most significant was the following, sent by Admiral Yamamoto to the Japanese First Air Fleet on November 26, 1941:

The task force, keeping its movement strictly secret and maintaining close guard against submarines and aircraft, shall advance into Hawaiian waters, and upon the very opening of hostilities shall attack the main force of the United States fleet and deal it a mortal blow. The first air raid is planned for the dawn of x-day. Exact date to be given by later order.

So much official secrecy continues to surround the translations of the intercepted Japanese naval dispatches that it is not known if the foregoing message was sent to McCollum or seen by FDR. It is not even known who originally translated the intercept. One thing, however, is certain: The message's significance could not have been lost on the translator.

1941 also witnessed the following:

On January 27th, our ambassador to Japan, Joseph Grew, sent a message to Washington stating: "The Peruvian Minister has informed a member of my staff that he has heard from many sources, including a Japanese source, that in the event of trouble breaking out between the United States and Japan, the Japanese intended to make a surprise attack against Pearl Harbor with all their strength...."

On November 3rd, still relying on informants, Grew notified Secretary of State Cordell Hull: "War with the United States may come with dramatic and dangerous suddenness." He sent an even stronger warning on November 17th.

Congressman Martin Dies would write:

Early in 1941 the Dies Committee came into possession of a strategic map which gave clear proof of the intentions of the Japanese to make an assault on Pearl Harbor. The strategic map was prepared by the Japanese Imperial Military Intelligence Department. As soon as I received the document I telephoned Secretary of State Cordell Hull and told him what I had. Secretary Hull directed me not to let anyone know about the map and stated that he would call me as soon as he talked to President Roosevelt. In about an hour he telephoned to say that he had talked to Roosevelt and they agreed that it would be very serious if any information concerning this map reached the news services.... I told him it was a grave responsibility to withhold such vital information from the public. The Secretary assured me that he and Roosevelt considered it essential to national defense.

Dusko Popov was a Yugoslav who worked as a double agent for both Germany and Britain. His true allegiance was to the Allies. In the summer of 1941, the Nazis ordered Popov to Hawaii to make a detailed study of Pearl Harbor and its nearby airfields. The agent deduced that the mission betokened a surprise attack by the Japanese. In August, he fully reported this to the FBI in New York. J. Edgar Hoover later bitterly recalled that he had provided warnings to FDR about Pearl Harbor, but that Roosevelt told him not to pass the information any further and to just leave it in his (the president's) hands.

Kilsoo Haan, of the Sino-Korean People's League, received definite word from the Korean underground that the Japanese were planning to assault Hawaii "before Christmas." In November, after getting nowhere with the State Department, Haan convinced Iowa Senator Guy Gillette of his claim's merit. Gillette briefed the president, who laconically thanked him and said it would be looked into.

In Java, in early December, the Dutch Army decoded a dispatch from Tokyo to its Bangkok embassy, forecasting attacks on four sites including Hawaii. The Dutch passed the information to Brigadier General Elliot Thorpe, the U.S. military observer. Thorpe sent Washington a total of four warnings. The last went to General Marshall's intelligence chief. Thorpe was ordered to send no further messages concerning the matter. The Dutch also had their Washington military attaché, Colonel Weijerman, personally warn General Marshall.

Captain Johann Ranneft, the Dutch naval attaché in Washington, who was awarded the Legion of Merit for his services to America, recorded revealing details in his diary. On December 2nd, he visited the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI). Ranneft inquired about the Pacific. An American officer, pointing to a wall map, said, "This is the Japanese Task Force proceeding East." It was a spot midway between Japan and Hawaii. On December 6th, Ranneft returned and asked where the Japanese carriers were. He was shown a position on the map about 300-400 miles northwest of Pearl Harbor. Ranneft wrote: "I ask what is the meaning of these carriers at this location; whereupon I receive the answer that it is probably in connection with Japanese reports of eventual American action.... I myself do not think about it because I believe that everyone in Honolulu is 100 percent on the alert, just like everyone here at O.N.I."

On November 29th, Secretary of State Cordell Hull secretly met with freelance newspaper writer Joseph Leib. Leib had formerly held several posts in the Roosevelt administration. Hull knew him and felt he was one newsman he could trust. The secretary of state handed him copies of some of the Tokyo intercepts concerning Pearl Harbor. He said the Japanese were planning to strike the base and that FDR planned to let it happen. Hull made Leib pledge to keep his name out of it, but hoped he could blow the story sky-high in the newspapers.

Leib ran to the office of his friend Lyle Wilson, the Washington bureau chief of United Press. While keeping his pledge to Hull, he told Wilson the details and showed him the intercepts. Wilson replied that the story was ludicrous and refused to run it. Through connections, Leib managed to get a hurried version onto UP's foreign cable, but only one newspaper carried any part of it.

After Pearl Harbor, Lyle Wilson called Leib to his office. He handed him a copy of FDR's just-released "day of infamy" speech. The two men wept. Leib recounted his story in the History Channel documentary, "Sacrifice at Pearl Harbor."

The foregoing represents just a sampling of evidence that Washington knew in advance of the Pearl Harbor attack. For additional evidences, see Infamy: Pearl Harbor and Its Aftermath by Pulitzer Prize-winning historian John Toland, and Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert Stinnett.* So certain was the data that, at a private press briefing in November 1941, General George Marshall confidently predicted that a Japanese-American war would break out during the "first ten days of December."

However, none of this information was passed to our commanders in Hawaii, Kimmel and Short, with the exception of Ambassador Grew's January warning, a copy of which reached Kimmel on February 1st. To allay any concerns, Lieutenant Commander McCollum — who originated the plan to incite Japan to war — wrote Kimmel: "Naval Intelligence places no credence in these rumors. Furthermore, based on known data regarding the present disposition and deployment of Japanese naval and army forces, no move against Pearl Harbor appears imminent or planned for in the foreseeable future."

Sitting Ducks

To ensure a successful Japanese attack — one that would enrage America into joining the war — it was vital to keep Kimmel and Short out of the intelligence loop. However, Washington did far more than this to facilitate the Japanese assault.

On November 25th, approximately one hour after the Japanese attack force left port for Hawaii, the U.S. Navy issued an order forbidding U.S. and Allied shipping to travel via the North Pacific. All transpacific shipping was rerouted through the South Pacific. This order was even applied to Russian ships docked on the American west coast. The purpose is easy to fathom. If any commercial ship accidentally stumbled on the Japanese task force, it might alert Pearl Harbor. As Rear Admiral Richmond K. Turner, the Navy's War Plans officer in 1941, frankly stated: "We were prepared to divert traffic when we believed war was imminent. We sent the traffic down via the Torres Strait, so that the track of the Japanese task force would be clear of any traffic."

The Hawaiian commanders have traditionally been censured for failing to detect the approaching Japanese carriers. What goes unsaid is that Washington denied them the means to do so. An army marching overland toward a target is easily spotted. But Hawaii is in the middle of the ocean. Its approaches are limitless and uninhabited. During the week before December 7th, naval aircraft searched more than two million square miles of the Pacific — but never saw the Japanese force. This is because Kimmel and Short had only enough planes to survey one-third of the 360-degree arc around them, and intelligence had advised (incorrectly) that they should concentrate on the Southwest.

Radar, too, was insufficient. There were not enough trained surveillance pilots. Many of the reconnaissance craft were old and suffered from a lack of spare parts. The commanders' repeated requests to Washington for additional patrol planes were turned down. Rear Admiral Edward T. Layton, who served at Pearl Harbor, summed it up in his book And I Was There: "There was never any hint in any intelligence received by the local command of any Japanese threat to Hawaii. Our air defenses were stripped on orders from the army chief himself. Of the twelve B-17s on the island, only six could be kept in the air by cannibalizing the others for spare parts."

The Navy has traditionally followed the rule that, when international relations are critical, the fleet puts to sea. That is exactly what Admiral Kimmel did. Aware that U.S.-Japanese relations were deteriorating, he sent 46 warships safely into the North Pacific in late November 1941 — without notifying Washington. He even ordered the fleet to conduct a mock air raid on Pearl Harbor, clairvoyantly selecting the same launch site Admiral Yamamoto chose two weeks later.

When the White House learned of Kimmel's move it countermanded his orders and ordered all ships returned to dock, using the dubious excuse that Kimmel's action might provoke the Japanese. Washington knew that if the two fleets met at sea, and engaged each other, there might be questions about who fired the first shot.

Kimmel did not give up, however. With the exercise canceled, his carrier chief, Vice Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, issued plans for a 25-ship task force to guard against an "enemy air and submarine attack" on Pearl Harbor. The plan never went into effect. On November 26th, Admiral Stark, Washington's Chief of Naval Operations, ordered Halsey to use his carriers to transport fighter planes to Wake and Midway islands — further depleting Pearl Harbor's air defenses.

It was clear, of course, that once disaster struck Pearl Harbor, there would be demands for accountability. Washington seemed to artfully take this into account by sending an ambiguous "war warning" to Kimmel, and a similar one to Short, on November 27th. This has been used for years by Washington apologists to allege that the commanders should have been ready for the Japanese.

Indeed, the message began conspicuously: "This dispatch is to be considered a war warning." But it went on to state: "The number and equipment of Japanese troops and the organizations of naval task forces indicates an amphibious expedition against the Philippines, Thai or Kra Peninsula, or possibly Borneo." None of these areas was closer than 5,000 miles to Hawaii! No threat to Pearl Harbor was hinted at. It ended with the words: "Continental districts, Guam, Samoa take measures against sabotage." The message further stated that "measures should be carried out so as not repeat not to alarm civil population." Both commanders reported the actions taken to Washington. Short followed through with sabotage precautions, bunching his planes together (which hinders saboteurs but makes ideal targets for bombers), and Kimmel stepped up air surveillance and sub searches. If their response to the "war warning" was insufficient, Washington said nothing. The next day, a follow-up message from Marshall's adjutant general to Short warned only: "Initiate forthwith all additional measures necessary to provide for protection of your establishments, property, and equipment against sabotage, protection of your personnel against subversive propaganda and protection of all activities against espionage."

Thus things stood as Japan prepared to strike. Using the Purple code, Tokyo sent a formal statement to its Washington ambassadors. It was to be conveyed to the American Secretary of State on Sunday, December 7th. The statement terminated relations and was tantamount to a declaration of war. On December 6th, in Washington, the War and Navy departments had already decrypted the first 13 parts of this 14-part message. Although the final passage officially severing ties had not yet come through, the fiery wording made its meaning obvious. Later that day, when Lieutenant Lester Schulz delivered to President Roosevelt his copy of the intercept, Schulz heard FDR say to his advisor, Harry Hopkins, "This means war."

During subsequent Pearl Harbor investigations, both General Marshall, Army Chief of Staff, and Admiral Stark, Chief of Naval Operations, denied any recollection of where they had been on the evening of December 6th — despite Marshall's reputation for a photographic memory. But James G. Stahlman, a close friend of Navy Secretary Frank Knox, said Knox told him FDR convened a high-level meeting at the White House that evening. Knox, Marshall, Stark, and War Secretary Stimson attended. Indeed, with the nation on war's threshold, such a conference only made sense. That same evening, the Navy Department received a request from Stimson for a list of the whereabouts of all ships in the Pacific.

On the morning of December 7th, the final portion of Japan's lengthy message to the U.S. government was decoded. Tokyo added two special directives to its ambassadors. The first directive, which the message called "very important," was to deliver the statement at 1 p.m. The second directive ordered that the last copy of code, and the machine that went with it, be destroyed. The gravity of this was immediately recognized in the Navy Department: Japan had a long history of synchronizing attacks with breaks in relations; Sunday was an abnormal day to deliver diplomatic messages — but the best for trying to catch U.S. armed forces at low vigilance; and 1 p.m. in Washington was shortly after dawn in Hawaii!

Admiral Stark arrived at his office at 9:25 a.m. He was shown the message and the important delivery time. One junior officer pointed out the possibility of an attack on Hawaii; another urged that Kimmel be notified. But Stark refused; he did nothing all morning. Years later, he told the press that his conscience was clear concerning Pearl Harbor because all his actions had been dictated by a "higher authority." As Chief of Naval Operations, Stark had only one higher authority: Roosevelt.

In the War Department, where the 14-part statement had also been decoded, Colonel Rufus Bratton, head of the Army's Far Eastern section, discerned the message's significance. But the chief of intelligence told him nothing could be done until Marshall arrived. Bratton tried reaching Marshall at home, but was repeatedly told the general was out horseback riding. The horseback ride turned out to be a long one. When Bratton finally reached Marshall by phone and told him of the emergency, Marshall said he would come to the War Department. Marshall took 75 minutes to make the 10-minute drive. He didn't come to his office until 11:25 a.m. — an extremely late hour with the nation on the brink of war. He perused the Japanese message and was shown the delivery time. Every officer in Marshall's office agreed these indicated an attack in the Pacific at about 1 p.m. EST. The general finally agreed that Hawaii should be alerted, but time was running out.

Marshall had only to pick up his desk phone to reach Pearl Harbor on the transpacific line. Doing so would not have averted the attack, but at least our men would have been at their battle stations. Instead, the general wrote a dispatch. After it was encoded it went to the Washington office of Western Union. From there it was relayed to San Francisco. From San Francisco it was transmitted via RCA commercial radio to Honolulu. General Short received it six hours after the attack. Two hours later it reached Kimmel. One can imagine their exasperation on reading it.

Despite all the evidence accrued through Magic and other sources during the previous months, Marshall had never warned Hawaii. To historians — ignorant of that classified evidence — it would appear the general had tried to save Pearl Harbor, "but alas, too late." Similarly, FDR sent a last-minute plea for peace to Emperor Hirohito. Although written a week earlier, he did not send it until the evening of December 6th. It was to be delivered by Ambassador Grew, who would be unable to receive an audience with the emperor before December 8th. Thus the message could not conceivably have forestalled the attack — but posterity would think that FDR, too, had made "a valiant, last effort."

The Roberts Commission, assigned to investigate the Japanese attack, consisted of personal cronies of Roosevelt and Marshall. The Commission fully absolved Washington and declared that America was caught off guard due to "dereliction of duty" by Kimmel and Short. The wrath of America for these two was exceeded only by its wrath for Tokyo. To this day, many believe it was negligence by the Hawaii commanders that made the Pearl Harbor disaster possible.

* Though a major exposer of the Pearl Harbor conspiracy, Robert Stinnett is sympathetic regarding FDR's motives. He writes in his book: "As a veteran of the Pacific War, I felt a sense of outrage as I uncovered secrets that had been hidden from Americans for more than fifty years. But I understood the agonizing dilemma faced by President Roosevelt. He was forced to find circuitous means to persuade an isolationist America to join in a fight for freedom." In our view, a government that is allowed to operate in such fashion is a government that has embarked on a dangerous, slippery slope toward dictatorship. Nonetheless, Stinnett's position on FDR's motives makes his exposé of FDR's actions all the more compelling.

This article, slightly revised, originally appeared under the title "Pearl Harbor: The Facts Behind the Fiction" in the June 4, 2001 issue of The New American.


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## Dale Smith

On Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan launched a sneak attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, shattering the peace of a beautiful Hawaiian morning and leaving much of the fleet broken and burning. The destruction and death that the Japanese military visited upon Pearl Harbor that day — 18 naval vessels (including eight battleships) sunk or heavily damaged, 188 planes destroyed, over 2,000 servicemen killed — were exacerbated by the fact that American commanders in Hawaii were caught by surprise. But that was not the case in Washington.

Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. Oliver Lyttleton, British Minister of Production, stated in 1944: "Japan was provoked into attacking America at Pearl Harbor. It is a travesty of history to say that America was forced into the war."


Although FDR desired to directly involve the United States in the Second World War, his intentions sharply contradicted his public pronouncements. A pre-war Gallup poll showed 88 percent of Americans opposed U.S. involvement in the European war. Citizens realized that U.S. participation in World War I had not made a better world, and in a 1940 (election-year) speech, Roosevelt typically stated: "I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars."

But privately, the president planned the opposite. Roosevelt dispatched his closest advisor, Harry Hopkins, to meet British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in January 1941. Hopkins told Churchill: "The President is determined that we [the United States and England] shall win the war together. Make no mistake about it. He has sent me here to tell you that at all costs and by all means he will carry you through, no matter what happens to him — there is nothing he will not do so far as he has human power." William Stevenson noted in A Man Called Intrepid that American-British military staff talks began that same month under "utmost secrecy," which, he clarified, "meant preventing disclosure to the American public." Even Robert Sherwood, the president's friendly biographer, said: "If the isolationists had known the full extent of the secret alliance between the United States and Britain, their demands for impeachment would have rumbled like thunder throughout the land."

Background to Betrayal

Roosevelt's intentions were nearly exposed in 1940 when Tyler Kent, a code clerk at the U.S. embassy in London, discovered secret dispatches between Roosevelt and Churchill. These revealed that FDR — despite contrary campaign promises — was determined to engage America in the war. Kent smuggled some of the documents out of the embassy, hoping to alert the American public — but was caught. With U.S. government approval, he was tried in a secret British court and confined to a British prison until the war's end.

During World War II's early days, the president offered numerous provocations to Germany: freezing its assets; shipping 50 destroyers to Britain; and depth-charging U-boats. The Germans did not retaliate, however. They knew America's entry into World War I had shifted the balance of power against them, and they shunned a repeat of that scenario. FDR therefore switched his focus to Japan. Japan had signed a mutual defense pact with Germany and Italy (the Tripartite Treaty). Roosevelt knew that if Japan went to war with the United States, Germany and Italy would be compelled to declare war on America — thus entangling us in the European conflict by the back door. As Harold Ickes, secretary of the Interior, said in October 1941: "For a long time I have believed that our best entrance into the war would be by way of Japan."

Much new light has been shed on Pearl Harbor through the recent work of Robert B. Stinnett, a World War II Navy veteran. Stinnett has obtained numerous relevant documents through the Freedom of Information Act. In Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor (2000), the book so brusquely dismissed by director Bruckheimer, Stinnett reveals that Roosevelt's plan to provoke Japan began with a memorandum from Lieutenant Commander Arthur H. McCollum, head of the Far East desk of the Office of Naval Intelligence. The memorandum advocated eight actions predicted to lead Japan into attacking the United States. McCollum wrote: "If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better." FDR enacted all eight of McCollum's provocative steps — and more.

While no one can excuse Japan's belligerence in those days, it is also true that our government provoked that country in various ways — freezing her assets in America; closing the Panama Canal to her shipping; progressively halting vital exports to Japan until we finally joined Britain in an all-out embargo; sending a hostile note to the Japanese ambassador implying military threats if Tokyo did not alter its Pacific policies; and on November 26th — just 11 days before the Japanese attack — delivering an ultimatum that demanded, as prerequisites to resumed trade, that Japan withdraw all troops from China and Indochina, and in effect abrogate her Tripartite Treaty with Germany and Italy.

After meeting with President Roosevelt on October 16, 1941, Secretary of War Henry Stimson wrote in his diary: "We face the delicate question of the diplomatic fencing to be done so as to be sure Japan is put into the wrong and makes the first bad move — overt move." On November 25, the day before the ultimatum was sent to Japan's ambassadors, Stimson wrote in his diary: "The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot...."

The bait offered Japan was our Pacific Fleet. In 1940, Admiral J.O. Richardson, the fleet's commander, flew to Washington to protest FDR's decision to permanently base the fleet in Hawaii instead of its normal berthing on the U.S. West Coast. The admiral had sound reasons: Pearl Harbor was vulnerable to attack, being approachable from any direction; it could not be effectively rigged with nets and baffles to defend against torpedo planes; and in Hawaii it would be hard to supply and train crews for his undermanned vessels. Pearl Harbor also lacked adequate fuel supplies and dry docks, and keeping men far from their families would create morale problems. The argument became heated. Said Richardson: "I came away with the impression that, despite his spoken word, the President was fully determined to put the United States into the war if Great Britain could hold out until he was reelected."

Richardson was quickly relieved of command. Replacing him was Admiral Husband E. Kimmel. Kimmel also informed Roosevelt of Pearl Harbor's deficiencies, but accepted placement there, trusting that Washington would notify him of any intelligence pointing to attack. This proved to be misplaced trust. As Washington watched Japan preparing to assault Pearl Harbor, Admiral Kimmel, as well as his Army counterpart in Hawaii, General Walter C. Short, were completely sealed off from the information pipeline.

Prior Knowledge

One of the most important elements in America's foreknowledge of Japan's intentions was our government's success in cracking Japan's secret diplomatic code known as "Purple." Tokyo used it to communicate to its embassies and consulates, including those in Washington and Hawaii. The code was so complex that it was enciphered and deciphered by machine. A talented group of American cryptoanalysts broke the code in 1940 and devised a facsimile of the Japanese machine. These, utilized by the intelligence sections of both the War and Navy departments, swiftly revealed Japan's diplomatic messages. The deciphered texts were nicknamed "Magic."

Copies of Magic were always promptly delivered in locked pouches to President Roosevelt, and the secretaries of State, War, and Navy. They also went to Army Chief of Staff General George Marshall and to the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Harold Stark. However, although three Purple decoding machines were allotted to Britain, none was sent to Pearl Harbor. Intercepts of ciphered messages radioed between Tokyo and its Honolulu consulate had to be forwarded to Washington for decrypting. Thus Kimmel and Short, the Hawaiian commanders, were at the mercy of Washington for feedback. A request for their own decoding machine was rebuffed on the grounds that diplomatic traffic was of insufficient interest to soldiers.

How untrue that was! On October 9, 1941, the War Department decoded a Tokyo-to-Honolulu dispatch instructing the Consul General to divide Pearl Harbor into five specified areas and to report the exact locations of American ships therein.

There is nothing unusual about spies watching ship movements — but reporting precise whereabouts of ships in dock has only one implication. Charles Willoughby, Douglas MacArthur's chief of intelligence, later wrote that the "reports were on a grid system of the inner harbor with coordinate locations of American men of war ... coordinate grid is the classical method for pinpoint target designation; our battleships had suddenly become targets." This information was never sent to Kimmel or Short.

Additional intercepts were decoded by Washington, all within one day of their original transmission:

• November 5th: Tokyo notified its Washington ambassadors that November 25th was the deadline for an agreement with the U.S.

• November 11th: They were warned, "The situation is nearing a climax, and the time is getting short."

• November 16th: The deadline was pushed up to November 29th. "The deadline absolutely cannot be changed," the dispatch said. "After that, things are automatically going to happen."

• November 29th (the U.S. ultimatum had now been received): The ambassadors were told a rupture in negotiations was "inevitable," but that Japan's leaders "do not wish you to give the impression that negotiations are broken off."

• November 30th: Tokyo ordered its Berlin embassy to inform the Germans that "the breaking out of war may come quicker than anyone dreams."

• December 1st: The deadline was again moved ahead. "[T]o prevent the United States from becoming unduly suspicious, we have been advising the press and others that ... the negotiations are continuing."

• December 1st-2nd: The Japanese embassies in non-Axis nations around the world were directed to dispose of their secret documents and all but one copy of their codes. (This was for a reason easy to fathom — when war breaks out, the diplomatic offices of a hostile state lose their immunity and are normally overtaken. One copy of code was retained so that final instructions could be received, after which the last code copy would be destroyed.)

An additional warning came via the so-called "winds" message. A November 18th intercept indicated that, if a break in U.S. relations were forthcoming, Tokyo would issue a special radio warning. This would not be in the Purple code, as it was intended to reach consulates and lesser agencies of Japan not equipped with the code or one of its machines. The message, to be repeated three times during a weather report, was "Higashi no kaze ame," meaning "East wind, rain." "East wind" signified the United States; "rain" signified diplomatic split — in effect, war.

This prospective message was deemed so significant that U.S. radio monitors were constantly watching for it, and the Navy Department typed it up on special reminder cards. On December 4th, "Higashi no kaze ame" was indeed broadcast and picked up by Washington intelligence.

On three different occasions since 1894, Japan had made surprise attacks coinciding with breaks in diplomatic relations. This history was not lost on President Roosevelt. Secretary Stimson, describing FDR's White House conference of November 25th, noted: "The President said the Japanese were notorious for making an attack without warning and stated that we might be attacked, say next Monday, for example." Nor was it lost on Washington's senior military officers, all of them War College graduates.

As Robert Stinnett has revealed, Washington was not only deciphering Japanese diplomatic messages, but naval dispatches as well. President Roosevelt had access to these intercepts via his routing officer, Lieutenant Commander McCollum, who had authored the original eight-point plan of provocation to Japan. So much secrecy has surrounded these naval dispatches that their existence was not revealed during any of the ten Pearl Harbor investigations, even the mini-probe Congress conducted in 1995. Most of Stinnett's requests for documents concerning Pearl Harbor have been denied as still classified, even under the Freedom of Information Act.

It was long presumed that as the Japanese fleet approached Pearl Harbor, it maintained complete radio silence. This is untrue. The fleet barely observed discretion, let alone silence. Naval intelligence intercepted and translated numerous dispatches, some clearly revealing that Pearl Harbor had been targeted. The most significant was the following, sent by Admiral Yamamoto to the Japanese First Air Fleet on November 26, 1941:

The task force, keeping its movement strictly secret and maintaining close guard against submarines and aircraft, shall advance into Hawaiian waters, and upon the very opening of hostilities shall attack the main force of the United States fleet and deal it a mortal blow. The first air raid is planned for the dawn of x-day. Exact date to be given by later order.

So much official secrecy continues to surround the translations of the intercepted Japanese naval dispatches that it is not known if the foregoing message was sent to McCollum or seen by FDR. It is not even known who originally translated the intercept. One thing, however, is certain: The message's significance could not have been lost on the translator.

1941 also witnessed the following:

On January 27th, our ambassador to Japan, Joseph Grew, sent a message to Washington stating: "The Peruvian Minister has informed a member of my staff that he has heard from many sources, including a Japanese source, that in the event of trouble breaking out between the United States and Japan, the Japanese intended to make a surprise attack against Pearl Harbor with all their strength...."

On November 3rd, still relying on informants, Grew notified Secretary of State Cordell Hull: "War with the United States may come with dramatic and dangerous suddenness." He sent an even stronger warning on November 17th.

Congressman Martin Dies would write:

Early in 1941 the Dies Committee came into possession of a strategic map which gave clear proof of the intentions of the Japanese to make an assault on Pearl Harbor. The strategic map was prepared by the Japanese Imperial Military Intelligence Department. As soon as I received the document I telephoned Secretary of State Cordell Hull and told him what I had. Secretary Hull directed me not to let anyone know about the map and stated that he would call me as soon as he talked to President Roosevelt. In about an hour he telephoned to say that he had talked to Roosevelt and they agreed that it would be very serious if any information concerning this map reached the news services.... I told him it was a grave responsibility to withhold such vital information from the public. The Secretary assured me that he and Roosevelt considered it essential to national defense.

Dusko Popov was a Yugoslav who worked as a double agent for both Germany and Britain. His true allegiance was to the Allies. In the summer of 1941, the Nazis ordered Popov to Hawaii to make a detailed study of Pearl Harbor and its nearby airfields. The agent deduced that the mission betokened a surprise attack by the Japanese. In August, he fully reported this to the FBI in New York. J. Edgar Hoover later bitterly recalled that he had provided warnings to FDR about Pearl Harbor, but that Roosevelt told him not to pass the information any further and to just leave it in his (the president's) hands.

Kilsoo Haan, of the Sino-Korean People's League, received definite word from the Korean underground that the Japanese were planning to assault Hawaii "before Christmas." In November, after getting nowhere with the State Department, Haan convinced Iowa Senator Guy Gillette of his claim's merit. Gillette briefed the president, who laconically thanked him and said it would be looked into.

In Java, in early December, the Dutch Army decoded a dispatch from Tokyo to its Bangkok embassy, forecasting attacks on four sites including Hawaii. The Dutch passed the information to Brigadier General Elliot Thorpe, the U.S. military observer. Thorpe sent Washington a total of four warnings. The last went to General Marshall's intelligence chief. Thorpe was ordered to send no further messages concerning the matter. The Dutch also had their Washington military attaché, Colonel Weijerman, personally warn General Marshall.

Captain Johann Ranneft, the Dutch naval attaché in Washington, who was awarded the Legion of Merit for his services to America, recorded revealing details in his diary. On December 2nd, he visited the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI). Ranneft inquired about the Pacific. An American officer, pointing to a wall map, said, "This is the Japanese Task Force proceeding East." It was a spot midway between Japan and Hawaii. On December 6th, Ranneft returned and asked where the Japanese carriers were. He was shown a position on the map about 300-400 miles northwest of Pearl Harbor. Ranneft wrote: "I ask what is the meaning of these carriers at this location; whereupon I receive the answer that it is probably in connection with Japanese reports of eventual American action.... I myself do not think about it because I believe that everyone in Honolulu is 100 percent on the alert, just like everyone here at O.N.I."

On November 29th, Secretary of State Cordell Hull secretly met with freelance newspaper writer Joseph Leib. Leib had formerly held several posts in the Roosevelt administration. Hull knew him and felt he was one newsman he could trust. The secretary of state handed him copies of some of the Tokyo intercepts concerning Pearl Harbor. He said the Japanese were planning to strike the base and that FDR planned to let it happen. Hull made Leib pledge to keep his name out of it, but hoped he could blow the story sky-high in the newspapers.

Leib ran to the office of his friend Lyle Wilson, the Washington bureau chief of United Press. While keeping his pledge to Hull, he told Wilson the details and showed him the intercepts. Wilson replied that the story was ludicrous and refused to run it. Through connections, Leib managed to get a hurried version onto UP's foreign cable, but only one newspaper carried any part of it.

After Pearl Harbor, Lyle Wilson called Leib to his office. He handed him a copy of FDR's just-released "day of infamy" speech. The two men wept. Leib recounted his story in the History Channel documentary, "Sacrifice at Pearl Harbor."

The foregoing represents just a sampling of evidence that Washington knew in advance of the Pearl Harbor attack. For additional evidences, see Infamy: Pearl Harbor and Its Aftermath by Pulitzer Prize-winning historian John Toland, and Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert Stinnett.* So certain was the data that, at a private press briefing in November 1941, General George Marshall confidently predicted that a Japanese-American war would break out during the "first ten days of December."

However, none of this information was passed to our commanders in Hawaii, Kimmel and Short, with the exception of Ambassador Grew's January warning, a copy of which reached Kimmel on February 1st. To allay any concerns, Lieutenant Commander McCollum — who originated the plan to incite Japan to war — wrote Kimmel: "Naval Intelligence places no credence in these rumors. Furthermore, based on known data regarding the present disposition and deployment of Japanese naval and army forces, no move against Pearl Harbor appears imminent or planned for in the foreseeable future."

Sitting Ducks

To ensure a successful Japanese attack — one that would enrage America into joining the war — it was vital to keep Kimmel and Short out of the intelligence loop. However, Washington did far more than this to facilitate the Japanese assault.

On November 25th, approximately one hour after the Japanese attack force left port for Hawaii, the U.S. Navy issued an order forbidding U.S. and Allied shipping to travel via the North Pacific. All transpacific shipping was rerouted through the South Pacific. This order was even applied to Russian ships docked on the American west coast. The purpose is easy to fathom. If any commercial ship accidentally stumbled on the Japanese task force, it might alert Pearl Harbor. As Rear Admiral Richmond K. Turner, the Navy's War Plans officer in 1941, frankly stated: "We were prepared to divert traffic when we believed war was imminent. We sent the traffic down via the Torres Strait, so that the track of the Japanese task force would be clear of any traffic."

The Hawaiian commanders have traditionally been censured for failing to detect the approaching Japanese carriers. What goes unsaid is that Washington denied them the means to do so. An army marching overland toward a target is easily spotted. But Hawaii is in the middle of the ocean. Its approaches are limitless and uninhabited. During the week before December 7th, naval aircraft searched more than two million square miles of the Pacific — but never saw the Japanese force. This is because Kimmel and Short had only enough planes to survey one-third of the 360-degree arc around them, and intelligence had advised (incorrectly) that they should concentrate on the Southwest.

Radar, too, was insufficient. There were not enough trained surveillance pilots. Many of the reconnaissance craft were old and suffered from a lack of spare parts. The commanders' repeated requests to Washington for additional patrol planes were turned down. Rear Admiral Edward T. Layton, who served at Pearl Harbor, summed it up in his book And I Was There: "There was never any hint in any intelligence received by the local command of any Japanese threat to Hawaii. Our air defenses were stripped on orders from the army chief himself. Of the twelve B-17s on the island, only six could be kept in the air by cannibalizing the others for spare parts."

The Navy has traditionally followed the rule that, when international relations are critical, the fleet puts to sea. That is exactly what Admiral Kimmel did. Aware that U.S.-Japanese relations were deteriorating, he sent 46 warships safely into the North Pacific in late November 1941 — without notifying Washington. He even ordered the fleet to conduct a mock air raid on Pearl Harbor, clairvoyantly selecting the same launch site Admiral Yamamoto chose two weeks later.

When the White House learned of Kimmel's move it countermanded his orders and ordered all ships returned to dock, using the dubious excuse that Kimmel's action might provoke the Japanese. Washington knew that if the two fleets met at sea, and engaged each other, there might be questions about who fired the first shot.

Kimmel did not give up, however. With the exercise canceled, his carrier chief, Vice Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, issued plans for a 25-ship task force to guard against an "enemy air and submarine attack" on Pearl Harbor. The plan never went into effect. On November 26th, Admiral Stark, Washington's Chief of Naval Operations, ordered Halsey to use his carriers to transport fighter planes to Wake and Midway islands — further depleting Pearl Harbor's air defenses.

It was clear, of course, that once disaster struck Pearl Harbor, there would be demands for accountability. Washington seemed to artfully take this into account by sending an ambiguous "war warning" to Kimmel, and a similar one to Short, on November 27th. This has been used for years by Washington apologists to allege that the commanders should have been ready for the Japanese.

Indeed, the message began conspicuously: "This dispatch is to be considered a war warning." But it went on to state: "The number and equipment of Japanese troops and the organizations of naval task forces indicates an amphibious expedition against the Philippines, Thai or Kra Peninsula, or possibly Borneo." None of these areas was closer than 5,000 miles to Hawaii! No threat to Pearl Harbor was hinted at. It ended with the words: "Continental districts, Guam, Samoa take measures against sabotage." The message further stated that "measures should be carried out so as not repeat not to alarm civil population." Both commanders reported the actions taken to Washington. Short followed through with sabotage precautions, bunching his planes together (which hinders saboteurs but makes ideal targets for bombers), and Kimmel stepped up air surveillance and sub searches. If their response to the "war warning" was insufficient, Washington said nothing. The next day, a follow-up message from Marshall's adjutant general to Short warned only: "Initiate forthwith all additional measures necessary to provide for protection of your establishments, property, and equipment against sabotage, protection of your personnel against subversive propaganda and protection of all activities against espionage."

Thus things stood as Japan prepared to strike. Using the Purple code, Tokyo sent a formal statement to its Washington ambassadors. It was to be conveyed to the American Secretary of State on Sunday, December 7th. The statement terminated relations and was tantamount to a declaration of war. On December 6th, in Washington, the War and Navy departments had already decrypted the first 13 parts of this 14-part message. Although the final passage officially severing ties had not yet come through, the fiery wording made its meaning obvious. Later that day, when Lieutenant Lester Schulz delivered to President Roosevelt his copy of the intercept, Schulz heard FDR say to his advisor, Harry Hopkins, "This means war."

During subsequent Pearl Harbor investigations, both General Marshall, Army Chief of Staff, and Admiral Stark, Chief of Naval Operations, denied any recollection of where they had been on the evening of December 6th — despite Marshall's reputation for a photographic memory. But James G. Stahlman, a close friend of Navy Secretary Frank Knox, said Knox told him FDR convened a high-level meeting at the White House that evening. Knox, Marshall, Stark, and War Secretary Stimson attended. Indeed, with the nation on war's threshold, such a conference only made sense. That same evening, the Navy Department received a request from Stimson for a list of the whereabouts of all ships in the Pacific.

On the morning of December 7th, the final portion of Japan's lengthy message to the U.S. government was decoded. Tokyo added two special directives to its ambassadors. The first directive, which the message called "very important," was to deliver the statement at 1 p.m. The second directive ordered that the last copy of code, and the machine that went with it, be destroyed. The gravity of this was immediately recognized in the Navy Department: Japan had a long history of synchronizing attacks with breaks in relations; Sunday was an abnormal day to deliver diplomatic messages — but the best for trying to catch U.S. armed forces at low vigilance; and 1 p.m. in Washington was shortly after dawn in Hawaii!

Admiral Stark arrived at his office at 9:25 a.m. He was shown the message and the important delivery time. One junior officer pointed out the possibility of an attack on Hawaii; another urged that Kimmel be notified. But Stark refused; he did nothing all morning. Years later, he told the press that his conscience was clear concerning Pearl Harbor because all his actions had been dictated by a "higher authority." As Chief of Naval Operations, Stark had only one higher authority: Roosevelt.

In the War Department, where the 14-part statement had also been decoded, Colonel Rufus Bratton, head of the Army's Far Eastern section, discerned the message's significance. But the chief of intelligence told him nothing could be done until Marshall arrived. Bratton tried reaching Marshall at home, but was repeatedly told the general was out horseback riding. The horseback ride turned out to be a long one. When Bratton finally reached Marshall by phone and told him of the emergency, Marshall said he would come to the War Department. Marshall took 75 minutes to make the 10-minute drive. He didn't come to his office until 11:25 a.m. — an extremely late hour with the nation on the brink of war. He perused the Japanese message and was shown the delivery time. Every officer in Marshall's office agreed these indicated an attack in the Pacific at about 1 p.m. EST. The general finally agreed that Hawaii should be alerted, but time was running out.

Marshall had only to pick up his desk phone to reach Pearl Harbor on the transpacific line. Doing so would not have averted the attack, but at least our men would have been at their battle stations. Instead, the general wrote a dispatch. After it was encoded it went to the Washington office of Western Union. From there it was relayed to San Francisco. From San Francisco it was transmitted via RCA commercial radio to Honolulu. General Short received it six hours after the attack. Two hours later it reached Kimmel. One can imagine their exasperation on reading it.

Despite all the evidence accrued through Magic and other sources during the previous months, Marshall had never warned Hawaii. To historians — ignorant of that classified evidence — it would appear the general had tried to save Pearl Harbor, "but alas, too late." Similarly, FDR sent a last-minute plea for peace to Emperor Hirohito. Although written a week earlier, he did not send it until the evening of December 6th. It was to be delivered by Ambassador Grew, who would be unable to receive an audience with the emperor before December 8th. Thus the message could not conceivably have forestalled the attack — but posterity would think that FDR, too, had made "a valiant, last effort."

The Roberts Commission, assigned to investigate the Japanese attack, consisted of personal cronies of Roosevelt and Marshall. The Commission fully absolved Washington and declared that America was caught off guard due to "dereliction of duty" by Kimmel and Short. The wrath of America for these two was exceeded only by its wrath for Tokyo. To this day, many believe it was negligence by the Hawaii commanders that made the Pearl Harbor disaster possible.

* Though a major exposer of the Pearl Harbor conspiracy, Robert Stinnett is sympathetic regarding FDR's motives. He writes in his book: "As a veteran of the Pacific War, I felt a sense of outrage as I uncovered secrets that had been hidden from Americans for more than fifty years. But I understood the agonizing dilemma faced by President Roosevelt. He was forced to find circuitous means to persuade an isolationist America to join in a fight for freedom." In our view, a government that is allowed to operate in such fashion is a government that has embarked on a dangerous, slippery slope toward dictatorship. Nonetheless, Stinnett's position on FDR's motives makes his exposé of FDR's actions all the more compelling.

This article, slightly revised, originally appeared under the title "Pearl Harbor: The Facts Behind the Fiction" in the June 4, 2001 issue of The New American.


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## gipper

regent said:


> Why are conservatives so intent on tearing down FDR and not building up Lincoln?
> With Lincoln the GOP have a truly great president and instead Republicans seem to ignore Lincoln preferring to make Reagan great, and nobody's buying Reagan.


Actually they all sucked, but FDR and Dishonest Abe lead the pack as the most suckiest.


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## gipper

Dale Smith said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Dale Smith said:
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> Moonglow said:
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> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
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> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Goaded? By stopping the sale of scrap metal because of a boycott? No one forced the Japs to attack Pearl Harbor, it was an elective operation..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Goaded? By stopping the sale of scrap metal because of a boycott? No one forced the Japs to attack Pearl Harbor, it was an elective operation..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Back in the early 40's, USA.INC was the equivalent of Saudi Arabia...we shut off Japan's oil. Research, learn....evolve.
Click to expand...

Not possible.


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## gipper

Dale Smith said:


> On Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan launched a sneak attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, shattering the peace of a beautiful Hawaiian morning and leaving much of the fleet broken and burning. The destruction and death that the Japanese military visited upon Pearl Harbor that day — 18 naval vessels (including eight battleships) sunk or heavily damaged, 188 planes destroyed, over 2,000 servicemen killed — were exacerbated by the fact that American commanders in Hawaii were caught by surprise. But that was not the case in Washington.
> 
> Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. Oliver Lyttleton, British Minister of Production, stated in 1944: "Japan was provoked into attacking America at Pearl Harbor. It is a travesty of history to say that America was forced into the war."
> 
> 
> Although FDR desired to directly involve the United States in the Second World War, his intentions sharply contradicted his public pronouncements. A pre-war Gallup poll showed 88 percent of Americans opposed U.S. involvement in the European war. Citizens realized that U.S. participation in World War I had not made a better world, and in a 1940 (election-year) speech, Roosevelt typically stated: "I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars."
> 
> But privately, the president planned the opposite. Roosevelt dispatched his closest advisor, Harry Hopkins, to meet British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in January 1941. Hopkins told Churchill: "The President is determined that we [the United States and England] shall win the war together. Make no mistake about it. He has sent me here to tell you that at all costs and by all means he will carry you through, no matter what happens to him — there is nothing he will not do so far as he has human power." William Stevenson noted in A Man Called Intrepid that American-British military staff talks began that same month under "utmost secrecy," which, he clarified, "meant preventing disclosure to the American public." Even Robert Sherwood, the president's friendly biographer, said: "If the isolationists had known the full extent of the secret alliance between the United States and Britain, their demands for impeachment would have rumbled like thunder throughout the land."
> 
> Background to Betrayal
> 
> Roosevelt's intentions were nearly exposed in 1940 when Tyler Kent, a code clerk at the U.S. embassy in London, discovered secret dispatches between Roosevelt and Churchill. These revealed that FDR — despite contrary campaign promises — was determined to engage America in the war. Kent smuggled some of the documents out of the embassy, hoping to alert the American public — but was caught. With U.S. government approval, he was tried in a secret British court and confined to a British prison until the war's end.
> 
> During World War II's early days, the president offered numerous provocations to Germany: freezing its assets; shipping 50 destroyers to Britain; and depth-charging U-boats. The Germans did not retaliate, however. They knew America's entry into World War I had shifted the balance of power against them, and they shunned a repeat of that scenario. FDR therefore switched his focus to Japan. Japan had signed a mutual defense pact with Germany and Italy (the Tripartite Treaty). Roosevelt knew that if Japan went to war with the United States, Germany and Italy would be compelled to declare war on America — thus entangling us in the European conflict by the back door. As Harold Ickes, secretary of the Interior, said in October 1941: "For a long time I have believed that our best entrance into the war would be by way of Japan."
> 
> Much new light has been shed on Pearl Harbor through the recent work of Robert B. Stinnett, a World War II Navy veteran. Stinnett has obtained numerous relevant documents through the Freedom of Information Act. In Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor (2000), the book so brusquely dismissed by director Bruckheimer, Stinnett reveals that Roosevelt's plan to provoke Japan began with a memorandum from Lieutenant Commander Arthur H. McCollum, head of the Far East desk of the Office of Naval Intelligence. The memorandum advocated eight actions predicted to lead Japan into attacking the United States. McCollum wrote: "If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better." FDR enacted all eight of McCollum's provocative steps — and more.
> 
> While no one can excuse Japan's belligerence in those days, it is also true that our government provoked that country in various ways — freezing her assets in America; closing the Panama Canal to her shipping; progressively halting vital exports to Japan until we finally joined Britain in an all-out embargo; sending a hostile note to the Japanese ambassador implying military threats if Tokyo did not alter its Pacific policies; and on November 26th — just 11 days before the Japanese attack — delivering an ultimatum that demanded, as prerequisites to resumed trade, that Japan withdraw all troops from China and Indochina, and in effect abrogate her Tripartite Treaty with Germany and Italy.
> 
> After meeting with President Roosevelt on October 16, 1941, Secretary of War Henry Stimson wrote in his diary: "We face the delicate question of the diplomatic fencing to be done so as to be sure Japan is put into the wrong and makes the first bad move — overt move." On November 25, the day before the ultimatum was sent to Japan's ambassadors, Stimson wrote in his diary: "The question was how we should maneuver them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot...."
> 
> The bait offered Japan was our Pacific Fleet. In 1940, Admiral J.O. Richardson, the fleet's commander, flew to Washington to protest FDR's decision to permanently base the fleet in Hawaii instead of its normal berthing on the U.S. West Coast. The admiral had sound reasons: Pearl Harbor was vulnerable to attack, being approachable from any direction; it could not be effectively rigged with nets and baffles to defend against torpedo planes; and in Hawaii it would be hard to supply and train crews for his undermanned vessels. Pearl Harbor also lacked adequate fuel supplies and dry docks, and keeping men far from their families would create morale problems. The argument became heated. Said Richardson: "I came away with the impression that, despite his spoken word, the President was fully determined to put the United States into the war if Great Britain could hold out until he was reelected."
> 
> Richardson was quickly relieved of command. Replacing him was Admiral Husband E. Kimmel. Kimmel also informed Roosevelt of Pearl Harbor's deficiencies, but accepted placement there, trusting that Washington would notify him of any intelligence pointing to attack. This proved to be misplaced trust. As Washington watched Japan preparing to assault Pearl Harbor, Admiral Kimmel, as well as his Army counterpart in Hawaii, General Walter C. Short, were completely sealed off from the information pipeline.
> 
> Prior Knowledge
> 
> One of the most important elements in America's foreknowledge of Japan's intentions was our government's success in cracking Japan's secret diplomatic code known as "Purple." Tokyo used it to communicate to its embassies and consulates, including those in Washington and Hawaii. The code was so complex that it was enciphered and deciphered by machine. A talented group of American cryptoanalysts broke the code in 1940 and devised a facsimile of the Japanese machine. These, utilized by the intelligence sections of both the War and Navy departments, swiftly revealed Japan's diplomatic messages. The deciphered texts were nicknamed "Magic."
> 
> Copies of Magic were always promptly delivered in locked pouches to President Roosevelt, and the secretaries of State, War, and Navy. They also went to Army Chief of Staff General George Marshall and to the Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Harold Stark. However, although three Purple decoding machines were allotted to Britain, none was sent to Pearl Harbor. Intercepts of ciphered messages radioed between Tokyo and its Honolulu consulate had to be forwarded to Washington for decrypting. Thus Kimmel and Short, the Hawaiian commanders, were at the mercy of Washington for feedback. A request for their own decoding machine was rebuffed on the grounds that diplomatic traffic was of insufficient interest to soldiers.
> 
> How untrue that was! On October 9, 1941, the War Department decoded a Tokyo-to-Honolulu dispatch instructing the Consul General to divide Pearl Harbor into five specified areas and to report the exact locations of American ships therein.
> 
> There is nothing unusual about spies watching ship movements — but reporting precise whereabouts of ships in dock has only one implication. Charles Willoughby, Douglas MacArthur's chief of intelligence, later wrote that the "reports were on a grid system of the inner harbor with coordinate locations of American men of war ... coordinate grid is the classical method for pinpoint target designation; our battleships had suddenly become targets." This information was never sent to Kimmel or Short.
> 
> Additional intercepts were decoded by Washington, all within one day of their original transmission:
> 
> • November 5th: Tokyo notified its Washington ambassadors that November 25th was the deadline for an agreement with the U.S.
> 
> • November 11th: They were warned, "The situation is nearing a climax, and the time is getting short."
> 
> • November 16th: The deadline was pushed up to November 29th. "The deadline absolutely cannot be changed," the dispatch said. "After that, things are automatically going to happen."
> 
> • November 29th (the U.S. ultimatum had now been received): The ambassadors were told a rupture in negotiations was "inevitable," but that Japan's leaders "do not wish you to give the impression that negotiations are broken off."
> 
> • November 30th: Tokyo ordered its Berlin embassy to inform the Germans that "the breaking out of war may come quicker than anyone dreams."
> 
> • December 1st: The deadline was again moved ahead. "[T]o prevent the United States from becoming unduly suspicious, we have been advising the press and others that ... the negotiations are continuing."
> 
> • December 1st-2nd: The Japanese embassies in non-Axis nations around the world were directed to dispose of their secret documents and all but one copy of their codes. (This was for a reason easy to fathom — when war breaks out, the diplomatic offices of a hostile state lose their immunity and are normally overtaken. One copy of code was retained so that final instructions could be received, after which the last code copy would be destroyed.)
> 
> An additional warning came via the so-called "winds" message. A November 18th intercept indicated that, if a break in U.S. relations were forthcoming, Tokyo would issue a special radio warning. This would not be in the Purple code, as it was intended to reach consulates and lesser agencies of Japan not equipped with the code or one of its machines. The message, to be repeated three times during a weather report, was "Higashi no kaze ame," meaning "East wind, rain." "East wind" signified the United States; "rain" signified diplomatic split — in effect, war.
> 
> This prospective message was deemed so significant that U.S. radio monitors were constantly watching for it, and the Navy Department typed it up on special reminder cards. On December 4th, "Higashi no kaze ame" was indeed broadcast and picked up by Washington intelligence.
> 
> On three different occasions since 1894, Japan had made surprise attacks coinciding with breaks in diplomatic relations. This history was not lost on President Roosevelt. Secretary Stimson, describing FDR's White House conference of November 25th, noted: "The President said the Japanese were notorious for making an attack without warning and stated that we might be attacked, say next Monday, for example." Nor was it lost on Washington's senior military officers, all of them War College graduates.
> 
> As Robert Stinnett has revealed, Washington was not only deciphering Japanese diplomatic messages, but naval dispatches as well. President Roosevelt had access to these intercepts via his routing officer, Lieutenant Commander McCollum, who had authored the original eight-point plan of provocation to Japan. So much secrecy has surrounded these naval dispatches that their existence was not revealed during any of the ten Pearl Harbor investigations, even the mini-probe Congress conducted in 1995. Most of Stinnett's requests for documents concerning Pearl Harbor have been denied as still classified, even under the Freedom of Information Act.
> 
> It was long presumed that as the Japanese fleet approached Pearl Harbor, it maintained complete radio silence. This is untrue. The fleet barely observed discretion, let alone silence. Naval intelligence intercepted and translated numerous dispatches, some clearly revealing that Pearl Harbor had been targeted. The most significant was the following, sent by Admiral Yamamoto to the Japanese First Air Fleet on November 26, 1941:
> 
> The task force, keeping its movement strictly secret and maintaining close guard against submarines and aircraft, shall advance into Hawaiian waters, and upon the very opening of hostilities shall attack the main force of the United States fleet and deal it a mortal blow. The first air raid is planned for the dawn of x-day. Exact date to be given by later order.
> 
> So much official secrecy continues to surround the translations of the intercepted Japanese naval dispatches that it is not known if the foregoing message was sent to McCollum or seen by FDR. It is not even known who originally translated the intercept. One thing, however, is certain: The message's significance could not have been lost on the translator.
> 
> 1941 also witnessed the following:
> 
> On January 27th, our ambassador to Japan, Joseph Grew, sent a message to Washington stating: "The Peruvian Minister has informed a member of my staff that he has heard from many sources, including a Japanese source, that in the event of trouble breaking out between the United States and Japan, the Japanese intended to make a surprise attack against Pearl Harbor with all their strength...."
> 
> On November 3rd, still relying on informants, Grew notified Secretary of State Cordell Hull: "War with the United States may come with dramatic and dangerous suddenness." He sent an even stronger warning on November 17th.
> 
> Congressman Martin Dies would write:
> 
> Early in 1941 the Dies Committee came into possession of a strategic map which gave clear proof of the intentions of the Japanese to make an assault on Pearl Harbor. The strategic map was prepared by the Japanese Imperial Military Intelligence Department. As soon as I received the document I telephoned Secretary of State Cordell Hull and told him what I had. Secretary Hull directed me not to let anyone know about the map and stated that he would call me as soon as he talked to President Roosevelt. In about an hour he telephoned to say that he had talked to Roosevelt and they agreed that it would be very serious if any information concerning this map reached the news services.... I told him it was a grave responsibility to withhold such vital information from the public. The Secretary assured me that he and Roosevelt considered it essential to national defense.
> 
> Dusko Popov was a Yugoslav who worked as a double agent for both Germany and Britain. His true allegiance was to the Allies. In the summer of 1941, the Nazis ordered Popov to Hawaii to make a detailed study of Pearl Harbor and its nearby airfields. The agent deduced that the mission betokened a surprise attack by the Japanese. In August, he fully reported this to the FBI in New York. J. Edgar Hoover later bitterly recalled that he had provided warnings to FDR about Pearl Harbor, but that Roosevelt told him not to pass the information any further and to just leave it in his (the president's) hands.
> 
> Kilsoo Haan, of the Sino-Korean People's League, received definite word from the Korean underground that the Japanese were planning to assault Hawaii "before Christmas." In November, after getting nowhere with the State Department, Haan convinced Iowa Senator Guy Gillette of his claim's merit. Gillette briefed the president, who laconically thanked him and said it would be looked into.
> 
> In Java, in early December, the Dutch Army decoded a dispatch from Tokyo to its Bangkok embassy, forecasting attacks on four sites including Hawaii. The Dutch passed the information to Brigadier General Elliot Thorpe, the U.S. military observer. Thorpe sent Washington a total of four warnings. The last went to General Marshall's intelligence chief. Thorpe was ordered to send no further messages concerning the matter. The Dutch also had their Washington military attaché, Colonel Weijerman, personally warn General Marshall.
> 
> Captain Johann Ranneft, the Dutch naval attaché in Washington, who was awarded the Legion of Merit for his services to America, recorded revealing details in his diary. On December 2nd, he visited the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI). Ranneft inquired about the Pacific. An American officer, pointing to a wall map, said, "This is the Japanese Task Force proceeding East." It was a spot midway between Japan and Hawaii. On December 6th, Ranneft returned and asked where the Japanese carriers were. He was shown a position on the map about 300-400 miles northwest of Pearl Harbor. Ranneft wrote: "I ask what is the meaning of these carriers at this location; whereupon I receive the answer that it is probably in connection with Japanese reports of eventual American action.... I myself do not think about it because I believe that everyone in Honolulu is 100 percent on the alert, just like everyone here at O.N.I."
> 
> On November 29th, Secretary of State Cordell Hull secretly met with freelance newspaper writer Joseph Leib. Leib had formerly held several posts in the Roosevelt administration. Hull knew him and felt he was one newsman he could trust. The secretary of state handed him copies of some of the Tokyo intercepts concerning Pearl Harbor. He said the Japanese were planning to strike the base and that FDR planned to let it happen. Hull made Leib pledge to keep his name out of it, but hoped he could blow the story sky-high in the newspapers.
> 
> Leib ran to the office of his friend Lyle Wilson, the Washington bureau chief of United Press. While keeping his pledge to Hull, he told Wilson the details and showed him the intercepts. Wilson replied that the story was ludicrous and refused to run it. Through connections, Leib managed to get a hurried version onto UP's foreign cable, but only one newspaper carried any part of it.
> 
> After Pearl Harbor, Lyle Wilson called Leib to his office. He handed him a copy of FDR's just-released "day of infamy" speech. The two men wept. Leib recounted his story in the History Channel documentary, "Sacrifice at Pearl Harbor."
> 
> The foregoing represents just a sampling of evidence that Washington knew in advance of the Pearl Harbor attack. For additional evidences, see Infamy: Pearl Harbor and Its Aftermath by Pulitzer Prize-winning historian John Toland, and Day of Deceit: The Truth about FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert Stinnett.* So certain was the data that, at a private press briefing in November 1941, General George Marshall confidently predicted that a Japanese-American war would break out during the "first ten days of December."
> 
> However, none of this information was passed to our commanders in Hawaii, Kimmel and Short, with the exception of Ambassador Grew's January warning, a copy of which reached Kimmel on February 1st. To allay any concerns, Lieutenant Commander McCollum — who originated the plan to incite Japan to war — wrote Kimmel: "Naval Intelligence places no credence in these rumors. Furthermore, based on known data regarding the present disposition and deployment of Japanese naval and army forces, no move against Pearl Harbor appears imminent or planned for in the foreseeable future."
> 
> Sitting Ducks
> 
> To ensure a successful Japanese attack — one that would enrage America into joining the war — it was vital to keep Kimmel and Short out of the intelligence loop. However, Washington did far more than this to facilitate the Japanese assault.
> 
> On November 25th, approximately one hour after the Japanese attack force left port for Hawaii, the U.S. Navy issued an order forbidding U.S. and Allied shipping to travel via the North Pacific. All transpacific shipping was rerouted through the South Pacific. This order was even applied to Russian ships docked on the American west coast. The purpose is easy to fathom. If any commercial ship accidentally stumbled on the Japanese task force, it might alert Pearl Harbor. As Rear Admiral Richmond K. Turner, the Navy's War Plans officer in 1941, frankly stated: "We were prepared to divert traffic when we believed war was imminent. We sent the traffic down via the Torres Strait, so that the track of the Japanese task force would be clear of any traffic."
> 
> The Hawaiian commanders have traditionally been censured for failing to detect the approaching Japanese carriers. What goes unsaid is that Washington denied them the means to do so. An army marching overland toward a target is easily spotted. But Hawaii is in the middle of the ocean. Its approaches are limitless and uninhabited. During the week before December 7th, naval aircraft searched more than two million square miles of the Pacific — but never saw the Japanese force. This is because Kimmel and Short had only enough planes to survey one-third of the 360-degree arc around them, and intelligence had advised (incorrectly) that they should concentrate on the Southwest.
> 
> Radar, too, was insufficient. There were not enough trained surveillance pilots. Many of the reconnaissance craft were old and suffered from a lack of spare parts. The commanders' repeated requests to Washington for additional patrol planes were turned down. Rear Admiral Edward T. Layton, who served at Pearl Harbor, summed it up in his book And I Was There: "There was never any hint in any intelligence received by the local command of any Japanese threat to Hawaii. Our air defenses were stripped on orders from the army chief himself. Of the twelve B-17s on the island, only six could be kept in the air by cannibalizing the others for spare parts."
> 
> The Navy has traditionally followed the rule that, when international relations are critical, the fleet puts to sea. That is exactly what Admiral Kimmel did. Aware that U.S.-Japanese relations were deteriorating, he sent 46 warships safely into the North Pacific in late November 1941 — without notifying Washington. He even ordered the fleet to conduct a mock air raid on Pearl Harbor, clairvoyantly selecting the same launch site Admiral Yamamoto chose two weeks later.
> 
> When the White House learned of Kimmel's move it countermanded his orders and ordered all ships returned to dock, using the dubious excuse that Kimmel's action might provoke the Japanese. Washington knew that if the two fleets met at sea, and engaged each other, there might be questions about who fired the first shot.
> 
> Kimmel did not give up, however. With the exercise canceled, his carrier chief, Vice Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, issued plans for a 25-ship task force to guard against an "enemy air and submarine attack" on Pearl Harbor. The plan never went into effect. On November 26th, Admiral Stark, Washington's Chief of Naval Operations, ordered Halsey to use his carriers to transport fighter planes to Wake and Midway islands — further depleting Pearl Harbor's air defenses.
> 
> It was clear, of course, that once disaster struck Pearl Harbor, there would be demands for accountability. Washington seemed to artfully take this into account by sending an ambiguous "war warning" to Kimmel, and a similar one to Short, on November 27th. This has been used for years by Washington apologists to allege that the commanders should have been ready for the Japanese.
> 
> Indeed, the message began conspicuously: "This dispatch is to be considered a war warning." But it went on to state: "The number and equipment of Japanese troops and the organizations of naval task forces indicates an amphibious expedition against the Philippines, Thai or Kra Peninsula, or possibly Borneo." None of these areas was closer than 5,000 miles to Hawaii! No threat to Pearl Harbor was hinted at. It ended with the words: "Continental districts, Guam, Samoa take measures against sabotage." The message further stated that "measures should be carried out so as not repeat not to alarm civil population." Both commanders reported the actions taken to Washington. Short followed through with sabotage precautions, bunching his planes together (which hinders saboteurs but makes ideal targets for bombers), and Kimmel stepped up air surveillance and sub searches. If their response to the "war warning" was insufficient, Washington said nothing. The next day, a follow-up message from Marshall's adjutant general to Short warned only: "Initiate forthwith all additional measures necessary to provide for protection of your establishments, property, and equipment against sabotage, protection of your personnel against subversive propaganda and protection of all activities against espionage."
> 
> Thus things stood as Japan prepared to strike. Using the Purple code, Tokyo sent a formal statement to its Washington ambassadors. It was to be conveyed to the American Secretary of State on Sunday, December 7th. The statement terminated relations and was tantamount to a declaration of war. On December 6th, in Washington, the War and Navy departments had already decrypted the first 13 parts of this 14-part message. Although the final passage officially severing ties had not yet come through, the fiery wording made its meaning obvious. Later that day, when Lieutenant Lester Schulz delivered to President Roosevelt his copy of the intercept, Schulz heard FDR say to his advisor, Harry Hopkins, "This means war."
> 
> During subsequent Pearl Harbor investigations, both General Marshall, Army Chief of Staff, and Admiral Stark, Chief of Naval Operations, denied any recollection of where they had been on the evening of December 6th — despite Marshall's reputation for a photographic memory. But James G. Stahlman, a close friend of Navy Secretary Frank Knox, said Knox told him FDR convened a high-level meeting at the White House that evening. Knox, Marshall, Stark, and War Secretary Stimson attended. Indeed, with the nation on war's threshold, such a conference only made sense. That same evening, the Navy Department received a request from Stimson for a list of the whereabouts of all ships in the Pacific.
> 
> On the morning of December 7th, the final portion of Japan's lengthy message to the U.S. government was decoded. Tokyo added two special directives to its ambassadors. The first directive, which the message called "very important," was to deliver the statement at 1 p.m. The second directive ordered that the last copy of code, and the machine that went with it, be destroyed. The gravity of this was immediately recognized in the Navy Department: Japan had a long history of synchronizing attacks with breaks in relations; Sunday was an abnormal day to deliver diplomatic messages — but the best for trying to catch U.S. armed forces at low vigilance; and 1 p.m. in Washington was shortly after dawn in Hawaii!
> 
> Admiral Stark arrived at his office at 9:25 a.m. He was shown the message and the important delivery time. One junior officer pointed out the possibility of an attack on Hawaii; another urged that Kimmel be notified. But Stark refused; he did nothing all morning. Years later, he told the press that his conscience was clear concerning Pearl Harbor because all his actions had been dictated by a "higher authority." As Chief of Naval Operations, Stark had only one higher authority: Roosevelt.
> 
> In the War Department, where the 14-part statement had also been decoded, Colonel Rufus Bratton, head of the Army's Far Eastern section, discerned the message's significance. But the chief of intelligence told him nothing could be done until Marshall arrived. Bratton tried reaching Marshall at home, but was repeatedly told the general was out horseback riding. The horseback ride turned out to be a long one. When Bratton finally reached Marshall by phone and told him of the emergency, Marshall said he would come to the War Department. Marshall took 75 minutes to make the 10-minute drive. He didn't come to his office until 11:25 a.m. — an extremely late hour with the nation on the brink of war. He perused the Japanese message and was shown the delivery time. Every officer in Marshall's office agreed these indicated an attack in the Pacific at about 1 p.m. EST. The general finally agreed that Hawaii should be alerted, but time was running out.
> 
> Marshall had only to pick up his desk phone to reach Pearl Harbor on the transpacific line. Doing so would not have averted the attack, but at least our men would have been at their battle stations. Instead, the general wrote a dispatch. After it was encoded it went to the Washington office of Western Union. From there it was relayed to San Francisco. From San Francisco it was transmitted via RCA commercial radio to Honolulu. General Short received it six hours after the attack. Two hours later it reached Kimmel. One can imagine their exasperation on reading it.
> 
> Despite all the evidence accrued through Magic and other sources during the previous months, Marshall had never warned Hawaii. To historians — ignorant of that classified evidence — it would appear the general had tried to save Pearl Harbor, "but alas, too late." Similarly, FDR sent a last-minute plea for peace to Emperor Hirohito. Although written a week earlier, he did not send it until the evening of December 6th. It was to be delivered by Ambassador Grew, who would be unable to receive an audience with the emperor before December 8th. Thus the message could not conceivably have forestalled the attack — but posterity would think that FDR, too, had made "a valiant, last effort."
> 
> The Roberts Commission, assigned to investigate the Japanese attack, consisted of personal cronies of Roosevelt and Marshall. The Commission fully absolved Washington and declared that America was caught off guard due to "dereliction of duty" by Kimmel and Short. The wrath of America for these two was exceeded only by its wrath for Tokyo. To this day, many believe it was negligence by the Hawaii commanders that made the Pearl Harbor disaster possible.
> 
> * Though a major exposer of the Pearl Harbor conspiracy, Robert Stinnett is sympathetic regarding FDR's motives. He writes in his book: "As a veteran of the Pacific War, I felt a sense of outrage as I uncovered secrets that had been hidden from Americans for more than fifty years. But I understood the agonizing dilemma faced by President Roosevelt. He was forced to find circuitous means to persuade an isolationist America to join in a fight for freedom." In our view, a government that is allowed to operate in such fashion is a government that has embarked on a dangerous, slippery slope toward dictatorship. Nonetheless, Stinnett's position on FDR's motives makes his exposé of FDR's actions all the more compelling.
> 
> This article, slightly revised, originally appeared under the title "Pearl Harbor: The Facts Behind the Fiction" in the June 4, 2001 issue of The New American.


The apologists for Stalin's Stooge will ignore.

They are just big pussies unwilling to accept the truth, about their beloved FDR.

That might be the best post ever posted in the history of this forum.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
> 
> 
> 
> LIAR. Your nonsense is based on conspiracy theory crap that you can not back up. Your theory has been around for 75 years and has never been anything other than a conspiracy theory. Facts have proven your nonsense to be nonsense.
> FDR had to contend with the isolationist and Neutrality Act up until 1940 when the Tea Party of that era were exposed for the idiots they were and the nation started paying attention to the growing threats from the Axis, including Japan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I am 100 percent correct and your revisionist history is 100 percent wrong. FDR allowed 1,600 sailors to die for a lie when he knew that the intel they had would have prevented it almost a year before Pearl Harbor....100 percent correct. FDR's military leaders even allowed sailors that survived the attack to die when they could have  been saved. They sent been saved...think about it....these sailors sent Morse code messages for weeks before they finally died and no effort was made to save them...none....nada, zilch....chew on that the next time you hear the national anthem or see old glory waving in the wind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another talker bragging about how smart he is. Either can't figure out how to post a link or can't find links to post.[/QUOTE
> 
> Do your own  fucking research instead of begging to be spoon fed. Leftards have got to be the laziest fuckwads on this planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lame loser can't even submit a quote and posting. He wants to make wild claims and demand everyone else do "research" to prove the case he can not prove himself.
> No one is begging you for anything loser. When you make a claim you are the one who has to prove it. The whole point of the argument is that you can not provide a link because a valid one doesn't exist that will confirm your nonsense.
Click to expand...

You and the other apologists have been informed of FDR's treason numerous times.  You are just unwilling to accept the truth, because you are a chicken shit.


----------



## rightwinger

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
Click to expand...


Soviet deaths, over 10 million
US deaths in Europe, 200,000

Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids

The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops

For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
Click to expand...

Typical.  Just ignore the treason and post ignorance.


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical.  Just ignore the treason and post ignorance.
Click to expand...


Why are conservatives so simple minded?

They think that anyone who does not conform to conservative thought is guilty of TREASON

FDR....TREASON
Truman....TREASON
JFK.......TREASON
Clinton.....TREASON
Obama ....TREASON


----------



## Dale Smith

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> LIAR. Your nonsense is based on conspiracy theory crap that you can not back up. Your theory has been around for 75 years and has never been anything other than a conspiracy theory. Facts have proven your nonsense to be nonsense.
> FDR had to contend with the isolationist and Neutrality Act up until 1940 when the Tea Party of that era were exposed for the idiots they were and the nation started paying attention to the growing threats from the Axis, including Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I am 100 percent correct and your revisionist history is 100 percent wrong. FDR allowed 1,600 sailors to die for a lie when he knew that the intel they had would have prevented it almost a year before Pearl Harbor....100 percent correct. FDR's military leaders even allowed sailors that survived the attack to die when they could have  been saved. They sent been saved...think about it....these sailors sent Morse code messages for weeks before they finally died and no effort was made to save them...none....nada, zilch....chew on that the next time you hear the national anthem or see old glory waving in the wind.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Another talker bragging about how smart he is. Either can't figure out how to post a link or can't find links to post.[/QUOTE
> 
> Do your own  fucking research instead of begging to be spoon fed. Leftards have got to be the laziest fuckwads on this planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lame loser can't even submit a quote and posting. He wants to make wild claims and demand everyone else do "research" to prove the case he can not prove himself.
> No one is begging you for anything loser. When you make a claim you are the one who has to prove it. The whole point of the argument is that you can not provide a link because a valid one doesn't exist that will confirm your nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You and the other apologists have been informed of FDR's treason numerous times.  You are just unwilling to accept the truth, because you are a chicken shit.
Click to expand...

FDR's VP, Henry Wallace was very chummy with the commies.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Here ya go, ya lazy fuck....
> 
> On Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan launched a sneak attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, shattering the peace of a beautiful Hawaiian morning and leaving much of the fleet broken and burning. The destruction and death that the Japanese military visited upon Pearl Harbor that day — 18 naval vessels (including eight battleships) sunk or heavily damaged, 188 planes destroyed, over 2,000 servicemen killed — were exacerbated by the fact that American commanders in Hawaii were caught by surprise..



A conspiracy theory essay from the magazine of the John Birch Society is not recognized by any historians or academic entities of repute (accredited universities and colleges). Your essay is a conspiracy theory based on subjective speculations and misinformation and is unsourced itself. In other words, it is not created from provable facts. There is no way to check on the claims. In any case, much of it's contents have been debunked long ago.


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical.  Just ignore the treason and post ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are conservatives so simple minded?
> 
> They think that anyone who does not conform to conservative thought is guilty of TREASON
> 
> FDR....TREASON
> Truman....TREASON
> JFK.......TREASON
> Clinton.....TREASON
> Obama ....TREASON
Click to expand...

I ain't no con and you know it.  Is dementia kicking in?


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go, ya lazy fuck....
> 
> On Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan launched a sneak attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, shattering the peace of a beautiful Hawaiian morning and leaving much of the fleet broken and burning. The destruction and death that the Japanese military visited upon Pearl Harbor that day — 18 naval vessels (including eight battleships) sunk or heavily damaged, 188 planes destroyed, over 2,000 servicemen killed — were exacerbated by the fact that American commanders in Hawaii were caught by surprise..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A conspiracy theory essay from the magazine of the John Birch Society is not recognized by any historians or academic entities of repute (accredited universities and colleges). Your essay is a conspiracy theory based on subjective speculations and misinformation and is unsourced itself. In other words, it is not created from provable facts. There is no way to check on the claims. In any case, much of it's contents have been debunked long ago.
Click to expand...

You prefer to believe in the state, which has proven itself as a liar over and over again.

Who you gonna believe? The state or your lying eyes.  You chose the state.  CRAZY!


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical.  Just ignore the treason and post ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are conservatives so simple minded?
> 
> They think that anyone who does not conform to conservative thought is guilty of TREASON
> 
> FDR....TREASON
> Truman....TREASON
> JFK.......TREASON
> Clinton.....TREASON
> Obama ....TREASON
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I ain't no con and you know it.  Is dementia kicking in?
Click to expand...


Anarchist?


----------



## gipper

Dale Smith said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, I am 100 percent correct and your revisionist history is 100 percent wrong. FDR allowed 1,600 sailors to die for a lie when he knew that the intel they had would have prevented it almost a year before Pearl Harbor....100 percent correct. FDR's military leaders even allowed sailors that survived the attack to die when they could have  been saved. They sent been saved...think about it....these sailors sent Morse code messages for weeks before they finally died and no effort was made to save them...none....nada, zilch....chew on that the next time you hear the national anthem or see old glory waving in the wind.
> 
> 
> 
> Another talker bragging about how smart he is. Either can't figure out how to post a link or can't find links to post.[/QUOTE
> 
> Do your own  fucking research instead of begging to be spoon fed. Leftards have got to be the laziest fuckwads on this planet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lame loser can't even submit a quote and posting. He wants to make wild claims and demand everyone else do "research" to prove the case he can not prove himself.
> No one is begging you for anything loser. When you make a claim you are the one who has to prove it. The whole point of the argument is that you can not provide a link because a valid one doesn't exist that will confirm your nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You and the other apologists have been informed of FDR's treason numerous times.  You are just unwilling to accept the truth, because you are a chicken shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FDR's VP, Henry Wallace was very chummy with the commies.
Click to expand...

Yes.  His administration was overrun with commies, but this means nothing to idiot statists like those in this thread.


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical.  Just ignore the treason and post ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are conservatives so simple minded?
> 
> They think that anyone who does not conform to conservative thought is guilty of TREASON
> 
> FDR....TREASON
> Truman....TREASON
> JFK.......TREASON
> Clinton.....TREASON
> Obama ....TREASON
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I ain't no con and you know it.  Is dementia kicking in?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Anarchist?
Click to expand...

Thank you.  You must be getting better.


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Typical.  Just ignore the treason and post ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why are conservatives so simple minded?
> 
> They think that anyone who does not conform to conservative thought is guilty of TREASON
> 
> FDR....TREASON
> Truman....TREASON
> JFK.......TREASON
> Clinton.....TREASON
> Obama ....TREASON
Click to expand...

JFK was great which is why the State you so love and adore, murdered him.


----------



## rightwinger




----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


>


Ignore treason and the terrible death and destruction it caused.  

Look on bright side....right?  But only if the POTUS is a Dem...right?


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go, ya lazy fuck....
> 
> On Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan launched a sneak attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, shattering the peace of a beautiful Hawaiian morning and leaving much of the fleet broken and burning. The destruction and death that the Japanese military visited upon Pearl Harbor that day — 18 naval vessels (including eight battleships) sunk or heavily damaged, 188 planes destroyed, over 2,000 servicemen killed — were exacerbated by the fact that American commanders in Hawaii were caught by surprise..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A conspiracy theory essay from the magazine of the John Birch Society is not recognized by any historians or academic entities of repute (accredited universities and colleges). Your essay is a conspiracy theory based on subjective speculations and misinformation and is unsourced itself. In other words, it is not created from provable facts. There is no way to check on the claims. In any case, much of it's contents have been debunked long ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You prefer to believe in the state, which has proven itself as a liar over and over again.
> 
> Who you gonna believe? The state or your lying eyes.  You chose the state.  CRAZY!
Click to expand...

I prefer to rely on writers and scholars who use adapted methods and standards of research and sourcing, instead of political commentators and people with specific agendas to fulfill who follow no rules and leave no way to validate their works. Histories are sourced in such a way that readers can review accuracy and determine fact from fiction, fact from speculation, subjectivity from objectivity and have the opportunity to validate or invalidate the author's analysis and conclusions. The piece being discussed here would be the cause of rejection and a failing grade if it were used as a source for any work submitted at a college, university and probably even a high school.


----------



## rightwinger




----------



## rightwinger




----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go, ya lazy fuck....
> 
> On Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan launched a sneak attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, shattering the peace of a beautiful Hawaiian morning and leaving much of the fleet broken and burning. The destruction and death that the Japanese military visited upon Pearl Harbor that day — 18 naval vessels (including eight battleships) sunk or heavily damaged, 188 planes destroyed, over 2,000 servicemen killed — were exacerbated by the fact that American commanders in Hawaii were caught by surprise..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A conspiracy theory essay from the magazine of the John Birch Society is not recognized by any historians or academic entities of repute (accredited universities and colleges). Your essay is a conspiracy theory based on subjective speculations and misinformation and is unsourced itself. In other words, it is not created from provable facts. There is no way to check on the claims. In any case, much of it's contents have been debunked long ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You prefer to believe in the state, which has proven itself as a liar over and over again.
> 
> Who you gonna believe? The state or your lying eyes.  You chose the state.  CRAZY!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I prefer to rely on writers and scholars who use adapted methods and standards of research and sourcing, instead of political commentators and people with specific agendas to fulfill who follow no rules and leave no way to validate their works. Histories are sourced in such a way that readers can review accuracy and determine fact from fiction, fact from speculation, subjectivity from objectivity and have the opportunity to validate or invalidate the author's analysis and conclusions. The piece being discussed here would be the cause of rejection and a failing grade if it were used as a source for any work submitted at a college, university and probably even a high school.
Click to expand...

Many scholars have exposed FDR's treason.  You're just too afraid to admit it.  Grow some balls.


----------



## rightwinger

.


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go, ya lazy fuck....
> 
> On Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan launched a sneak attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, shattering the peace of a beautiful Hawaiian morning and leaving much of the fleet broken and burning. The destruction and death that the Japanese military visited upon Pearl Harbor that day — 18 naval vessels (including eight battleships) sunk or heavily damaged, 188 planes destroyed, over 2,000 servicemen killed — were exacerbated by the fact that American commanders in Hawaii were caught by surprise..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A conspiracy theory essay from the magazine of the John Birch Society is not recognized by any historians or academic entities of repute (accredited universities and colleges). Your essay is a conspiracy theory based on subjective speculations and misinformation and is unsourced itself. In other words, it is not created from provable facts. There is no way to check on the claims. In any case, much of it's contents have been debunked long ago.
Click to expand...

 Why do you get all butthurt when someone tells the truth about a democrat? Do you think that they are pristine and without blemish? Does it upset your sense of decorum? I don't believe that FDR was an inherently bad man, but I don't see him as the iconic figure that you apparently do. He signed off on our indentured servitude when he could have told the banking oligarchs to go pound sand. When  these banking oligarchs recruited Smedley Butler to attempt a fascist takeover of the USA.INC in 1934 , FDR allowed them to go free because he was afraid that they would further crash the economy if he allowed them to stand trial for treason because they threatened to do so...did he not realize that he could have confiscated their ill-gotten wealth and that the foreign owned Federal Reserve bank that orchestrated the crash of 1929 (so they could buy up shares of unaffiliated banks and corporations that they coveted for pennies on the dollar) and put Congress in charge of printing our currency without usury? If he did not realize that, he was incompetent, if he knew and did nothing, then he was part of the attempted coup d 'etat and expecting a huge pay off....either way his legacy is tainted just for that.

There would not have been any Nazi threat or Russian communist threat had it not been for the financing of Wall Street and the banking oligarchs that propped up these countries so they could take advantage of their resources and enriching themselves through war....and that is a fact. It wasn't just the Prescott Bush types that provided capital to take advantage of Germany's industrial prowess, it was other monarchs in other European countries that used the Nazi party as a bulwark against the USSR when Josef Stalin strayed from the script because the Bolshevik revolution was funded by Wall Street and the bankers. The last great president that we had that attempted to take a stand against the global elites was JFK and he paid for it with his life. Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan tried to make changes and attempts were made on their lives. There was a coup de 'e'tat when JFK was publicly murdered and the shadow government that really calls the shots only became further entrenched and they have had 52 years since his murder to further manipulate the system. You call me a "conspiracy theorist" in a lame attempt to demonize me....typical. The fact of the matter is that in 1967, the CIA manipulated media via "Operation Mockingbird" infiltrated the most powerful media organizations and used that term to marginalize anyone that questioned the official story of JFK's murder. I know more than most because I have made it my business to attempt to learn the truth. I stopped watching TV three years ago except for the occasional football game and all I do is read, listen to lectures, documentaries and do the proper vetting of information. I have no political agenda and I operate on a higher level of awareness than most because this is all I do. I attack an issue from every angle and discern the information to the best of my ability. I am trying to give people here the benefit of all the time I have spent seeking the truth. I am always open to debate and an exchange of ideas....but if you want to get into an insult fest? I am down with that as well. It's your choice.


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


>


 But yet FDR made us indentured debt slaves after the Chaper 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC and the gold confiscation of the people under threat of imprisonment and a hefty fine in exchange for a fiat Federal Reserve note that was backed by nothing...people turned in their gold (a tangible asset) the foreign owned Fed bankers gave them a piece of paper....good trade, eh?


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
Click to expand...


I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".

Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet FDR made us indentured debt slaves after the Chaper 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC and the gold confiscation of the people under threat of imprisonment and a hefty fine in exchange for a fiat Federal Reserve note that was backed by nothing...people turned in their gold (a tangible asset) the foreign owned Fed bankers gave them a piece of paper....good trade, eh?
Click to expand...


History shows FDR turned us into an economic and military superpower

FDR turned us into a modern democracy


----------



## rightwinger

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".
> 
> Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.
Click to expand...


In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go, ya lazy fuck....
> 
> On Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan launched a sneak attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, shattering the peace of a beautiful Hawaiian morning and leaving much of the fleet broken and burning. The destruction and death that the Japanese military visited upon Pearl Harbor that day — 18 naval vessels (including eight battleships) sunk or heavily damaged, 188 planes destroyed, over 2,000 servicemen killed — were exacerbated by the fact that American commanders in Hawaii were caught by surprise..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A conspiracy theory essay from the magazine of the John Birch Society is not recognized by any historians or academic entities of repute (accredited universities and colleges). Your essay is a conspiracy theory based on subjective speculations and misinformation and is unsourced itself. In other words, it is not created from provable facts. There is no way to check on the claims. In any case, much of it's contents have been debunked long ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You prefer to believe in the state, which has proven itself as a liar over and over again.
> 
> Who you gonna believe? The state or your lying eyes.  You chose the state.  CRAZY!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I prefer to rely on writers and scholars who use adapted methods and standards of research and sourcing, instead of political commentators and people with specific agendas to fulfill who follow no rules and leave no way to validate their works. Histories are sourced in such a way that readers can review accuracy and determine fact from fiction, fact from speculation, subjectivity from objectivity and have the opportunity to validate or invalidate the author's analysis and conclusions. The piece being discussed here would be the cause of rejection and a failing grade if it were used as a source for any work submitted at a college, university and probably even a high school.
Click to expand...


No, you prefer to listen to those that fit your world view and nothing else will do. A mind is like a parachute....only works if it is open. I know how hard it was for me so why should I expect it to be easy for you?


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet FDR made us indentured debt slaves after the Chaper 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC and the gold confiscation of the people under threat of imprisonment and a hefty fine in exchange for a fiat Federal Reserve note that was backed by nothing...people turned in their gold (a tangible asset) the foreign owned Fed bankers gave them a piece of paper....good trade, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History shows FDR turned us into an economic and military superpower
> 
> FDR turned us into a modern democracy
Click to expand...

 No, FDR made us collateral on the debt with a bond created from our birth certificate. We were not founded as a democracy..a democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner. We were formed as a Republic and they are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".
> 
> Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
Click to expand...


"In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.

"Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
- Wikipedia.


----------



## eddiew

Sun Devil 92 said:


> FDR....one of the most overrated presidents ever.


And for republican idiots GWB  was one of the great ones Should have had a 3rd term     then he could have completely destroyed the republican party


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


>



A far more indicative quote:

 In July 5, 1935, in a letter to Representative Samuel B. Hill of Washington, the President *manifested his contempt for the Constitution.* Hill was chairman of the subcommittee studying the Guffey-Vinson bill to regulate the coal industry: the purpose of the legislation was to re-establish, for the coal industry, the NRA code system which the Supreme Court had unanimously declared unconstitutional. *Roosevelt wrote: "I hope your committee will not permit doubts as to constitutionality, however reasonable, to block the legislation."


It was Franklin Roosevelt who ended America's guidance under the United States Constitution.*


----------



## eddiew

Unkotare said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, do find a history book to read.
> 
> I will agree that he was by far more a CinC than our current pretender.
> 
> 
> 
> Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope. Strategy and tactics were devised by the military leadership and presented to FDR, who never served in the military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was Assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI...But then again Lincoln had no real experience either...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the North nearly lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, the North did not nearly lose.
Click to expand...

But you can admit the North didn't finish the job.......We needed another month or 2


----------



## Dale Smith

eddiew said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR....one of the most overrated presidents ever.
> 
> 
> 
> And for republican idiots GWB  was one of the great ones Should have had a 3rd term     then he could have completely destroyed the republican party
Click to expand...

  Right as rain, Edds.......GW Bush was just a puppet and Dick Cheney was the one actually calling the shots with Poppy Bush chiming in from time to time. You knew about all of this 12 years before I did...I should have listened to you.


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet FDR made us indentured debt slaves after the Chaper 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC and the gold confiscation of the people under threat of imprisonment and a hefty fine in exchange for a fiat Federal Reserve note that was backed by nothing...people turned in their gold (a tangible asset) the foreign owned Fed bankers gave them a piece of paper....good trade, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History shows FDR turned us into an economic and military superpower
> 
> FDR turned us into a modern democracy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, FDR made us collateral on the debt with a bond created from our birth certificate. We were not founded as a democracy..a democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner. We were formed as a Republic and they are not mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...


Very true

And FDRs policies kept the wolves at bay from the poor people


----------



## rightwinger

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> He also made the soviets do 90% of the fighting and dying and ended up with half of Europe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".
> 
> Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
Click to expand...


The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention

And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"


----------



## Dale Smith

eddiew said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Grand strategy was determined by the C in C not a Pentagon until 1943..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. Strategy and tactics were devised by the military leadership and presented to FDR, who never served in the military.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He was Assistant Secretary to the Navy during WWI...But then again Lincoln had no real experience either...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And the North nearly lost.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, the North did not nearly lose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But you can admit the North didn't finish the job.......We needed another month or 2
Click to expand...


Here is a fun fact that very few know. The Jesuit order of the catholic church told the south that if they went up against the north that the armies of England and France would help. England staged their armies in Canada, France staged their's in Mexico...it was the Tsar of Russia that kept those two armies at bay because  he positioned his naval fleet in the Atlantic ready to enter on behalf of the north should those two nations jump in.....

Here is a quote from Lincoln " _The war  would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits.”. Lincoln was killed by a Jesuit adjudicator and all ties to the Vatican were cut off for over 150 years and only reestablished by Reagan in 1984._


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".
> 
> Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
Click to expand...

Are you referring FDR's and Stalin's sexual encounters?


----------



## rightwinger

rightwinger said:


>



In terms of the economic recovery.....FDR "got it"

The recovery was not about economic indicators, bank stability or ensuring the capitalists led the recovery

It was about people. It was the lowest rung of our society that was doing most of the suffering. They had to be taken care of first.


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet FDR made us indentured debt slaves after the Chaper 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC and the gold confiscation of the people under threat of imprisonment and a hefty fine in exchange for a fiat Federal Reserve note that was backed by nothing...people turned in their gold (a tangible asset) the foreign owned Fed bankers gave them a piece of paper....good trade, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History shows FDR turned us into an economic and military superpower
> 
> FDR turned us into a modern democracy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, FDR made us collateral on the debt with a bond created from our birth certificate. We were not founded as a democracy..a democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner. We were formed as a Republic and they are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And FDRs policies kept the wolves at bay from the poor people
Click to expand...



 No, FDR caved into the bankers, made everyone born after 1935 "collateral" on a debt that he could have wiped away had he had the nads to tell the Fed bank to fuck off. He didn't even go after them when they tried to oust him with a fascist takeover in 1934. He cowered in fear that they would use their fiat currency to crash the economy that was still in the middle of the depression those POS caused.....you need to learn some real history and not the lies you were taught in school whose cirriculum was picked out for the masses ny tax free foundations tied to the Fed like the Rockefellers and Carnegies.


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of the economic recovery.....FDR "got it"
> 
> The recovery was not about economic indicators, bank stability or ensuring the capitalists led the recovery
> 
> It was about people. It was the lowest rung of our society that was doing most of the suffering. They had to be taken care of first.
Click to expand...

Oh brother (face palms)..........


----------



## regent

Dale Smith said:


> eddiew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> [QUOTE armies of England and France would help. England staged their armies in Canada, France staged their's in Mexico...it was the Tsar of Russia that kept those two armies at bay because  he positioned his naval fleet in the Atlantic ready to enter on behalf of the north should those two nations jump in.....
> 
> Here is a quote from Lincoln " _The war  would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits.”. Lincoln was killed by a Jesuit adjudicator and all ties to the Vatican were cut off for over 150 years and only reestablished by Reagan in 1984._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Sort of wondered where this was going. Are  we now on track?


----------



## Dale Smith

regent said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eddiew said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> [QUOTE armies of England and France would help. England staged their armies in Canada, France staged their's in Mexico...it was the Tsar of Russia that kept those two armies at bay because  he positioned his naval fleet in the Atlantic ready to enter on behalf of the north should those two nations jump in.....
> 
> Here is a quote from Lincoln " _The war  would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits.”. Lincoln was killed by a Jesuit adjudicator and all ties to the Vatican were cut off for over 150 years and only reestablished by Reagan in 1984._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sort of wondered where this was going. Are  we now on track?
Click to expand...


Unfortunately we are not....just need more people to wake up as to what is really going on....


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet FDR made us indentured debt slaves after the Chaper 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC and the gold confiscation of the people under threat of imprisonment and a hefty fine in exchange for a fiat Federal Reserve note that was backed by nothing...people turned in their gold (a tangible asset) the foreign owned Fed bankers gave them a piece of paper....good trade, eh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> History shows FDR turned us into an economic and military superpower
> 
> FDR turned us into a modern democracy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, FDR made us collateral on the debt with a bond created from our birth certificate. We were not founded as a democracy..a democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner. We were formed as a Republic and they are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And FDRs policies kept the wolves at bay from the poor people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, FDR caved into the bankers, made everyone born after 1935 "collateral" on a debt that he could have wiped away had he had the nads to tell the Fed bank to fuck off. He didn't even go after them when they tried to oust him with a fascist takeover in 1934. He cowered in fear that they would use their fiat currency to crash the economy that was still in the middle of the depression those POS caused.....you need to learn some real history and not the lies you were taught in school whose cirriculum was picked out for the masses ny tax free foundations tied to the Fed like the Rockefellers and Carnegies.
Click to expand...


Tin foil hats all around


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".
> 
> Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
Click to expand...




"The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention

And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"

OMG!!!!

What nonsense.

Of course, Roosevelt lap-dogs have to claim that, or they can't explain Roosevelt's obeisance to Stalin.


Stalin was never.......never....going to lose to his former ally.



No, Germany would not have conquered the USSR.

Hitler knew that....and so must have Roosevelt.

Here are the facts:
.. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*

Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.

The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
by Jacques Pauwels

"....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger USSR *in the long term. *Germany would have eventually surrendered* to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)



By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
He didn't.


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> But yet FDR made us indentured debt slaves after the Chaper 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC and the gold confiscation of the people under threat of imprisonment and a hefty fine in exchange for a fiat Federal Reserve note that was backed by nothing...people turned in their gold (a tangible asset) the foreign owned Fed bankers gave them a piece of paper....good trade, eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History shows FDR turned us into an economic and military superpower
> 
> FDR turned us into a modern democracy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, FDR made us collateral on the debt with a bond created from our birth certificate. We were not founded as a democracy..a democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner. We were formed as a Republic and they are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And FDRs policies kept the wolves at bay from the poor people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, FDR caved into the bankers, made everyone born after 1935 "collateral" on a debt that he could have wiped away had he had the nads to tell the Fed bank to fuck off. He didn't even go after them when they tried to oust him with a fascist takeover in 1934. He cowered in fear that they would use their fiat currency to crash the economy that was still in the middle of the depression those POS caused.....you need to learn some real history and not the lies you were taught in school whose cirriculum was picked out for the masses ny tax free foundations tied to the Fed like the Rockefellers and Carnegies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hats all around
Click to expand...


I know more than you...deal with it......all your lame attempts at insulting me because I am more educated than you only makes me laugh at your ignorance.


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> History shows FDR turned us into an economic and military superpower
> 
> FDR turned us into a modern democracy
> 
> 
> 
> No, FDR made us collateral on the debt with a bond created from our birth certificate. We were not founded as a democracy..a democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner. We were formed as a Republic and they are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And FDRs policies kept the wolves at bay from the poor people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, FDR caved into the bankers, made everyone born after 1935 "collateral" on a debt that he could have wiped away had he had the nads to tell the Fed bank to fuck off. He didn't even go after them when they tried to oust him with a fascist takeover in 1934. He cowered in fear that they would use their fiat currency to crash the economy that was still in the middle of the depression those POS caused.....you need to learn some real history and not the lies you were taught in school whose cirriculum was picked out for the masses ny tax free foundations tied to the Fed like the Rockefellers and Carnegies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hats all around
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know more than you...deal with it......all your lame attempts at insulting me because I am more educated than you only makes me laugh at your ignorance.
Click to expand...


Sure you are Fredo.....


----------



## gipper

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> History shows FDR turned us into an economic and military superpower
> 
> FDR turned us into a modern democracy
> 
> 
> 
> No, FDR made us collateral on the debt with a bond created from our birth certificate. We were not founded as a democracy..a democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner. We were formed as a Republic and they are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And FDRs policies kept the wolves at bay from the poor people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, FDR caved into the bankers, made everyone born after 1935 "collateral" on a debt that he could have wiped away had he had the nads to tell the Fed bank to fuck off. He didn't even go after them when they tried to oust him with a fascist takeover in 1934. He cowered in fear that they would use their fiat currency to crash the economy that was still in the middle of the depression those POS caused.....you need to learn some real history and not the lies you were taught in school whose cirriculum was picked out for the masses ny tax free foundations tied to the Fed like the Rockefellers and Carnegies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hats all around
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know more than you...deal with it......all your lame attempts at insulting me because I am more educated than you only makes me laugh at your ignorance.
Click to expand...

Don't pay any attention to leftnutter.  He is your typical statist loving Dem partisan.


----------



## Dale Smith

gipper said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, FDR made us collateral on the debt with a bond created from our birth certificate. We were not founded as a democracy..a democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner. We were formed as a Republic and they are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very true
> 
> And FDRs policies kept the wolves at bay from the poor people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No, FDR caved into the bankers, made everyone born after 1935 "collateral" on a debt that he could have wiped away had he had the nads to tell the Fed bank to fuck off. He didn't even go after them when they tried to oust him with a fascist takeover in 1934. He cowered in fear that they would use their fiat currency to crash the economy that was still in the middle of the depression those POS caused.....you need to learn some real history and not the lies you were taught in school whose cirriculum was picked out for the masses ny tax free foundations tied to the Fed like the Rockefellers and Carnegies.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hats all around
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know more than you...deal with it......all your lame attempts at insulting me because I am more educated than you only makes me laugh at your ignorance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't pay any attention to leftnutter.  He is your typical statist loving Dem partisan.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the "heads up"....seems like I am talking to a brick wall.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

rightwinger said:


>



Unconstitutional.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most interesting.  How did he do that?  Please provide historical references.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".
> 
> Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
Click to expand...


Why do you continue to batter your own disproved argument?  Are you psychotic?


----------



## rightwinger

Billy_Kinetta said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".
> 
> Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you continue to batter your own disproved argument?  Are you psychotic?
Click to expand...


Your delusional alternative histories border on the psychotic




.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

rightwinger said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".
> 
> Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you continue to batter your own disproved argument?  Are you psychotic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your delusional alternative histories border on the psychotic
Click to expand...


We await your documentation.


----------



## regent

Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?


----------



## gipper

regent said:


> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?


Oh come now Reggie....leaders throughout history have lied to the people and gotten away with it in real time.  After some time, smart people (not including you) figure out the lies.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## mamooth

Now, not all FDR-haters are Nazi sympathizers.

Oh wait, they are. Never mind.

You don't have to analyze it any deeper than that. FDR squashed the Nazis, hence the Nazi-sympathizers hate FDR.


----------



## rightwinger

mamooth said:


> Now, not all FDR-haters are Nazi sympathizers.
> 
> Oh wait, they are. Never mind.
> 
> You don't have to analyze it any deeper than that. FDR squashed the Nazis, hence the Nazi-sympathizers hate FDR.



They prefer that the Nazis keep Western Europe to allowing the USSR to survive.


----------



## TyroneSlothrop




----------



## rightwinger

regent said:


> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?


FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years

Wisest decision our nation ever made


----------



## Dale Smith

regent said:


> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?



What a bunch of b.s. FDR was controlled by the same group of thieves that that tried to overthrow him using General Smedley Butler and he never did a thing to them. He enriched the very same people that helped put Hitler in power while financing him. They funded the communists and financed them after they co-opted the Bolshevik revolution in Russia. You don't know the real history because we were never taught the truth.


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
Click to expand...

 

You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
Click to expand...


Tin foil hat history doesn't count


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
Click to expand...

So far, you have not posted or shown what you refer to as "real history". You have posted and discussed conclusions of unproven conspiracy theories and rejected revisionism promoted by agenda driven entities like the John Birch Society.


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soviet deaths, over 10 million
> US deaths in Europe, 200,000
> 
> Soviets killed 4 million Nazis, US killed 300,000 mostly through bombing raids
> 
> The Soviets faced the majority of the German Army on the Eastern Front. The Western Front was defended by fewer divisions and less than top notch troops
> 
> For all this, FDR ended up with all of Western Europe (the best part economically) the Soviets got to keep territory they fought and died for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".
> 
> Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> OMG!!!!
> 
> What nonsense.
> 
> Of course, Roosevelt lap-dogs have to claim that, or they can't explain Roosevelt's obeisance to Stalin.
> 
> 
> Stalin was never.......never....going to lose to his former ally.
> 
> 
> 
> No, Germany would not have conquered the USSR.
> 
> Hitler knew that....and so must have Roosevelt.
> 
> Here are the facts:
> .. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*
> 
> Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.
> 
> The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
> Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
> 'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
> by Jacques Pauwels
> 
> "....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger USSR *in the long term. *Germany would have eventually surrendered* to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
> So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
> He didn't.
Click to expand...

PoliticalChics  own links refute her outrageously fraudulent statement.

"Stalin was never.....nerver...going to lose to his former ally."
This is a great example of how cherry picking and distorting quotes can completely misinform and be twisted into a fraudulent claim.

The claim that the Soviet victory over Germany was a certainty is a foundation claim to support PoliticalChics many anti-FDR threads. It is a theory with no merit and not accepted by any historians. The fate of the outcome of the war between Germany and the USSR was an unknown and historians are in fundamental agreement that while the harsh Russian winter eventually played a role, its effects could have been avoided if not for Hitler's war changing blunders in splitting his Army and getting bogged down at Stalingrad.

As pointed out, PoliticalChics own link to Global Research confirms her ignorance or willful misleading on the topic. In addition, here are other sources to prove the ignorance or willful misleading in an effort to demonize FDR.

www.2worldwar2.com/when-hitler-lost.htm

historyplace.com/worldwar2/defeat/catastrophe-stalingrad.htm


----------



## guno

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So far, you have not posted or shown what you refer to as "real history". You have posted and discussed conclusions of unproven conspiracy theories and rejected revisionism promoted by agenda driven entities like the John Birch Society.
Click to expand...


'You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is


Are you surprised?


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hat history doesn't count
Click to expand...


Nothing "tinfoil hat" about it...it is the truth that isn't printed in school text books.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> I seriously doubt FDR ordered Hitler to invade the Soviet Union in order to have the Soviets do "90% of the fighting".
> 
> Each of your silly pronouncements surpasses the previous.  You get a certain credit for constancy, I suppose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> OMG!!!!
> 
> What nonsense.
> 
> Of course, Roosevelt lap-dogs have to claim that, or they can't explain Roosevelt's obeisance to Stalin.
> 
> 
> Stalin was never.......never....going to lose to his former ally.
> 
> 
> 
> No, Germany would not have conquered the USSR.
> 
> Hitler knew that....and so must have Roosevelt.
> 
> Here are the facts:
> .. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*
> 
> Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.
> 
> The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
> Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
> 'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
> by Jacques Pauwels
> 
> "....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger USSR *in the long term. *Germany would have eventually surrendered* to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
> So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
> He didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> PoliticalChics  own links refute her outrageously fraudulent statement.
> 
> "Stalin was never.....nerver...going to lose to his former ally."
> This is a great example of how cherry picking and distorting quotes can completely misinform and be twisted into a fraudulent claim.
> 
> The claim that the Soviet victory over Germany was a certainty is a foundation claim to support PoliticalChics many anti-FDR threads. It is a theory with no merit and not accepted by any historians. The fate of the outcome of the war between Germany and the USSR was an unknown and historians are in fundamental agreement that while the harsh Russian winter eventually played a role, its effects could have been avoided if not for Hitler's war changing blunders in splitting his Army and getting bogged down at Stalingrad.
> 
> As pointed out, PoliticalChics own link to Global Research confirms her ignorance or willful misleading on the topic. In addition, here are other sources to prove the ignorance or willful misleading in an effort to demonize FDR.
> 
> www.2worldwar2.com/when-hitler-lost.htm
> 
> historyplace.com/worldwar2/defeat/catastrophe-stalingrad.htm
Click to expand...




.. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*

Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.

The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
by Jacques Pauwels



By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
He didn't.


So....once one recognizes that Stalin was going to be the winner.....
....why did FDR send him supplies that the Allies could have used?

The schools hide the truth to shield FDR from richly deserved contumely.





Same reason so many universities eschew teaching the French Revolution....students might recognize that it gave birth to every totalitarian revolution in modern times.



"....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger Ussr*in the long term. Germany would have eventually surrendered to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)



11. "Between June 22, 1941, and January 31, 1942, the Germans had lost 6,000 airplanes and more than 3,200 tanks and similar vehicles; and no less than 918,000 men had been killed, wounded, or gone missing in action, amounting to 28.7 percent of the average strength of the army, namely, 3,2 million men.[33]

(In the Soviet Union, Germany would lose no less than 10 million of its total 13.5 million men killed, wounded, or taken prisoner during the entire war; and*the Red Army would end up claiming credit for 90 per cent of all Germans killed*in the Second World War.)
Clive Ponting, 'Armageddon: The Second World War,' p. 130; Stephen E. Ambrose 'Americans at War,' p. 72. ”


Gads....so easy to prove you're a lying Roosevelt boot-licker.


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So far, you have not posted or shown what you refer to as "real history". You have posted and discussed conclusions of unproven conspiracy theories and rejected revisionism promoted by agenda driven entities like the John Birch Society.
Click to expand...


The fact that General Smedley Butler was recruited by the banking oligarchs that also funded Hitler and communist Russia isn't a conspiracy theory. It's a conspiracy fact. and FDR never prosecuted these people and then put money in their pockets by allowing us to get into WWII. The Chapter 11 Bankruptcy of 1933 of USA.INC that led to the gold confiscation and made us indentured debt slaves to the very same bankers that tried to overthrow him when he did their dirty work for them only proves what a spineless wonder that he was. Your knowledge of our real history is nothing short of sad...but you are a leftard and you will not be swayed because believing lies about your beloved demcrat icons is better than facing the truth and I say the same thing about those that stand by the Bush crime family. The last president that we had that tried to make things right for us and stood up for us was JFK, a democrat....so you see? I have no partisan agenda. I am about the real truth instead of the lies that have been pawned off on us in order to keep us in the perpetual debt system. I know a lot and I have earned my knowledge and I am trying to share it and give you the benefit of it because bad shit is heading towards this country unless enough people wake up.


----------



## Dale Smith

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> OMG!!!!
> 
> What nonsense.
> 
> Of course, Roosevelt lap-dogs have to claim that, or they can't explain Roosevelt's obeisance to Stalin.
> 
> 
> Stalin was never.......never....going to lose to his former ally.
> 
> 
> 
> No, Germany would not have conquered the USSR.
> 
> Hitler knew that....and so must have Roosevelt.
> 
> Here are the facts:
> .. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*
> 
> Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.
> 
> The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
> Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
> 'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
> by Jacques Pauwels
> 
> "....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger USSR *in the long term. *Germany would have eventually surrendered* to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
> So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
> He didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> PoliticalChics  own links refute her outrageously fraudulent statement.
> 
> "Stalin was never.....nerver...going to lose to his former ally."
> This is a great example of how cherry picking and distorting quotes can completely misinform and be twisted into a fraudulent claim.
> 
> The claim that the Soviet victory over Germany was a certainty is a foundation claim to support PoliticalChics many anti-FDR threads. It is a theory with no merit and not accepted by any historians. The fate of the outcome of the war between Germany and the USSR was an unknown and historians are in fundamental agreement that while the harsh Russian winter eventually played a role, its effects could have been avoided if not for Hitler's war changing blunders in splitting his Army and getting bogged down at Stalingrad.
> 
> As pointed out, PoliticalChics own link to Global Research confirms her ignorance or willful misleading on the topic. In addition, here are other sources to prove the ignorance or willful misleading in an effort to demonize FDR.
> 
> www.2worldwar2.com/when-hitler-lost.htm
> 
> historyplace.com/worldwar2/defeat/catastrophe-stalingrad.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*
> 
> Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.
> 
> The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
> Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
> 'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
> by Jacques Pauwels
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
> He didn't.
> 
> 
> So....once one recognizes that Stalin was going to be the winner.....
> ....why did FDR send him supplies that the Allies could have used?
> 
> The schools hide the truth to shield FDR from richly deserved contumely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason so many universities eschew teaching the French Revolution....students might recognize that it gave birth to every totalitarian revolution in modern times.
> 
> 
> 
> "....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger Ussr*in the long term. Germany would have eventually surrendered to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
> So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)
> 
> 
> 
> 11. "Between June 22, 1941, and January 31, 1942, the Germans had lost 6,000 airplanes and more than 3,200 tanks and similar vehicles; and no less than 918,000 men had been killed, wounded, or gone missing in action, amounting to 28.7 percent of the average strength of the army, namely, 3,2 million men.[33]
> 
> (In the Soviet Union, Germany would lose no less than 10 million of its total 13.5 million men killed, wounded, or taken prisoner during the entire war; and*the Red Army would end up claiming credit for 90 per cent of all Germans killed*in the Second World War.)
> Clive Ponting, 'Armageddon: The Second World War,' p. 130; Stephen E. Ambrose 'Americans at War,' p. 72. ”
> 
> 
> Gads....so easy to prove you're a lying Roosevelt boot-licker.
Click to expand...


Game, set AND match goes to PoliticalChic.....


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> In spite of Stalin's demands that we invade Europe as early as 1942, FDR held back on the invasion of France until June 1944. Every month that FDR held off invading cost Stalin tens of thousands of deaths and saved us thousands of deaths
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> OMG!!!!
> 
> What nonsense.
> 
> Of course, Roosevelt lap-dogs have to claim that, or they can't explain Roosevelt's obeisance to Stalin.
> 
> 
> Stalin was never.......never....going to lose to his former ally.
> 
> 
> 
> No, Germany would not have conquered the USSR.
> 
> Hitler knew that....and so must have Roosevelt.
> 
> Here are the facts:
> .. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*
> 
> Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.
> 
> The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
> Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
> 'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
> by Jacques Pauwels
> 
> "....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger USSR *in the long term. *Germany would have eventually surrendered* to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
> So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
> He didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> PoliticalChics  own links refute her outrageously fraudulent statement.
> 
> "Stalin was never.....nerver...going to lose to his former ally."
> This is a great example of how cherry picking and distorting quotes can completely misinform and be twisted into a fraudulent claim.
> 
> The claim that the Soviet victory over Germany was a certainty is a foundation claim to support PoliticalChics many anti-FDR threads. It is a theory with no merit and not accepted by any historians. The fate of the outcome of the war between Germany and the USSR was an unknown and historians are in fundamental agreement that while the harsh Russian winter eventually played a role, its effects could have been avoided if not for Hitler's war changing blunders in splitting his Army and getting bogged down at Stalingrad.
> 
> As pointed out, PoliticalChics own link to Global Research confirms her ignorance or willful misleading on the topic. In addition, here are other sources to prove the ignorance or willful misleading in an effort to demonize FDR.
> 
> www.2worldwar2.com/when-hitler-lost.htm
> 
> historyplace.com/worldwar2/defeat/catastrophe-stalingrad.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*
> 
> Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.
> 
> The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
> Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
> 'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
> by Jacques Pauwels
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
> He didn't.
> 
> 
> So....once one recognizes that Stalin was going to be the winner.....
> ....why did FDR send him supplies that the Allies could have used?
> 
> The schools hide the truth to shield FDR from richly deserved contumely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason so many universities eschew teaching the French Revolution....students might recognize that it gave birth to every totalitarian revolution in modern times.
> 
> 
> 
> "....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger Ussr*in the long term. Germany would have eventually surrendered to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
> So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)
> 
> 
> 
> 11. "Between June 22, 1941, and January 31, 1942, the Germans had lost 6,000 airplanes and more than 3,200 tanks and similar vehicles; and no less than 918,000 men had been killed, wounded, or gone missing in action, amounting to 28.7 percent of the average strength of the army, namely, 3,2 million men.[33]
> 
> (In the Soviet Union, Germany would lose no less than 10 million of its total 13.5 million men killed, wounded, or taken prisoner during the entire war; and*the Red Army would end up claiming credit for 90 per cent of all Germans killed*in the Second World War.)
> Clive Ponting, 'Armageddon: The Second World War,' p. 130; Stephen E. Ambrose 'Americans at War,' p. 72. ”
> 
> 
> Gads....so easy to prove you're a lying Roosevelt boot-licker.
Click to expand...

You are repeating your trash instead of refuting my response to your nonsense. Read the entire link you have cherry picked from Global Research and or one or both of the links provided in my post and your distortion is overwhelmingly obvious. Dispute what virtually all recognized military and scholarly histories refer to as the Hitler blunder that led to Germany's defeat on the eastern front. Your predictions are speculative and in disagreement with acknowledged experts. You can not disagree with so many, in fact, all experts, and present your nonsense as fact. Winter played a role in the eventual defeat of Germany on the eastern front, but only because Hitler made the blunder of splitting his army and focusing on Stalingrad. That was the cause of the impact of winter on the German campaign. One can only speculate what would have happened if he had not split his forces and focused so much of it at the quagmire and stalemate at Stalingrad.


----------



## Dale Smith

guno said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So far, you have not posted or shown what you refer to as "real history". You have posted and discussed conclusions of unproven conspiracy theories and rejected revisionism promoted by agenda driven entities like the John Birch Society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is
> 
> 
> Are you surprised?
Click to expand...


Not really...just amazes me as to how people will cling to an ideology that is fraught with errors and delusion when real facts are introduced into the equation. I know, because I was a Bush backer and that is a period of my life that I wish I could take back.


----------



## Dale Smith

Hitler "blundered" nothing....he was not suppose to defeat Stalin. His orders by the Wall Street bankers was to prolong the war as long as possible and he did. He ended up dying of old age in Argentina having held up his end of the bargain. Do you really believe that Hitler died from a bullet wound that was self-inflicted in some bunker? What total bullshit. The Germans had technology that far surpassed anything any other country had...Admiral Byrd could testify to that when he was sent to flush out the rogue Nazi elements that were not a part of Operation Paperclip in Antarctica in 1947. Byrd and company left with their tails tucked beneath their legs.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> "In late May 1942 the Soviet Union and the United States made a joint announcement that a "... full understanding was reached with regard to the urgent tasks of creating a second front in Europe in 1942." However, Churchill persuaded Roosevelt to postpone the promised invasion as, even with American help, the Allies did not have adequate forces for such a strike.
> 
> "Instead of an immediate return to France, the Western Allies staged offensives in the Mediterranean Theater of Operations, where British troops were already stationed. By mid-1943, the campaign in North Africa had been won. The Allies then launched the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, and later invaded Italy in September 1943. By then, Soviet forces were on the offensive and had won a major victory at the Battle of Stalingrad. The decision to undertake a cross-channel invasion within the next year was taken at the Trident Conference in Washington in May 1943. Initial planning was constrained by the number of available landing craft, most of which were already committed in the Mediterranean and Pacific. At the Tehran Conference in November 1943, Roosevelt and Churchill promised Stalin that they would open the long-delayed second front in May 1944."
> - Wikipedia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> OMG!!!!
> 
> What nonsense.
> 
> Of course, Roosevelt lap-dogs have to claim that, or they can't explain Roosevelt's obeisance to Stalin.
> 
> 
> Stalin was never.......never....going to lose to his former ally.
> 
> 
> 
> No, Germany would not have conquered the USSR.
> 
> Hitler knew that....and so must have Roosevelt.
> 
> Here are the facts:
> .. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*
> 
> Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.
> 
> The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
> Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
> 'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
> by Jacques Pauwels
> 
> "....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger USSR *in the long term. *Germany would have eventually surrendered* to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
> So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
> He didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> PoliticalChics  own links refute her outrageously fraudulent statement.
> 
> "Stalin was never.....nerver...going to lose to his former ally."
> This is a great example of how cherry picking and distorting quotes can completely misinform and be twisted into a fraudulent claim.
> 
> The claim that the Soviet victory over Germany was a certainty is a foundation claim to support PoliticalChics many anti-FDR threads. It is a theory with no merit and not accepted by any historians. The fate of the outcome of the war between Germany and the USSR was an unknown and historians are in fundamental agreement that while the harsh Russian winter eventually played a role, its effects could have been avoided if not for Hitler's war changing blunders in splitting his Army and getting bogged down at Stalingrad.
> 
> As pointed out, PoliticalChics own link to Global Research confirms her ignorance or willful misleading on the topic. In addition, here are other sources to prove the ignorance or willful misleading in an effort to demonize FDR.
> 
> www.2worldwar2.com/when-hitler-lost.htm
> 
> historyplace.com/worldwar2/defeat/catastrophe-stalingrad.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*
> 
> Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.
> 
> The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
> Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
> 'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
> by Jacques Pauwels
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
> He didn't.
> 
> 
> So....once one recognizes that Stalin was going to be the winner.....
> ....why did FDR send him supplies that the Allies could have used?
> 
> The schools hide the truth to shield FDR from richly deserved contumely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason so many universities eschew teaching the French Revolution....students might recognize that it gave birth to every totalitarian revolution in modern times.
> 
> 
> 
> "....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger Ussr*in the long term. Germany would have eventually surrendered to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
> So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)
> 
> 
> 
> 11. "Between June 22, 1941, and January 31, 1942, the Germans had lost 6,000 airplanes and more than 3,200 tanks and similar vehicles; and no less than 918,000 men had been killed, wounded, or gone missing in action, amounting to 28.7 percent of the average strength of the army, namely, 3,2 million men.[33]
> 
> (In the Soviet Union, Germany would lose no less than 10 million of its total 13.5 million men killed, wounded, or taken prisoner during the entire war; and*the Red Army would end up claiming credit for 90 per cent of all Germans killed*in the Second World War.)
> Clive Ponting, 'Armageddon: The Second World War,' p. 130; Stephen E. Ambrose 'Americans at War,' p. 72. ”
> 
> 
> Gads....so easy to prove you're a lying Roosevelt boot-licker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are repeating your trash instead of refuting my response to your nonsense. Read the entire link you have cherry picked from Global Research and or one or both of the links provided in my post and your distortion is overwhelmingly obvious. Dispute what virtually all recognized military and scholarly histories refer to as the Hitler blunder that led to Germany's defeat on the eastern front. Your predictions are speculative and in disagreement with acknowledged experts. You can not disagree with so many, in fact, all experts, and present your nonsense as fact. Winter played a role in the eventual defeat of Germany on the eastern front, but only because Hitler made the blunder of splitting his army and focusing on Stalingrad. That was the cause of the impact of winter on the German campaign. One can only speculate what would have happened if he had not split his forces and focused so much of it at the quagmire and stalemate at Stalingrad.
Click to expand...



Everything I post is accurate, correct, linked and sourced.

Your vitriol is totally understandable. You simply cannot admit, even to yourself, that you have been so fooled, for so many years, to accept and endorse *the very same beliefs as Stalin, Hitler, and pretty much every totalitarian* in modern history. Even when the proof is right before your eyes.

Understandable.....but effete.


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hat history doesn't count
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing "tinfoil hat" about it...it is the truth that isn't printed in school text books.
Click to expand...


Let me explain tinfoil hat history to you 
People wear tinfoil hats to keep the evil gubmint from reading their thoughts. Your revisionist history involves our evil gubmint conspiring with the evil commies to sell out the world
I think tinfoil hat is an appropriate description of your historical perspective


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> Hitler "blundered" nothing....he was not suppose to defeat Stalin. His orders by the Wall Street bankers was to prolong the war as long as possible and he did. He ended up dying of old age in Argentina having held up his end of the bargain. Do you really believe that Hitler died from a bullet wound that was self-inflicted in some bunker? What total bullshit. The Germans had technology that far surpassed anything any other country had...Admiral Byrd could testify to that when he was sent to flush out the rogue Nazi elements that were not a part of Operation Paperclip in Antarctica in 1947. Byrd and company left with their tails tucked beneath their legs.



Thanks for proving my claims


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So far, you have not posted or shown what you refer to as "real history". You have posted and discussed conclusions of unproven conspiracy theories and rejected revisionism promoted by agenda driven entities like the John Birch Society.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 'You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is
> 
> 
> Are you surprised?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not really...just amazes me as to how people will cling to an ideology that is fraught with errors and delusion when real facts are introduced into the equation. I know, because I was a Bush backer and that is a period of my life that I wish I could take back.
Click to expand...


Your postings are either absent links to back up your assertions or have a questionable link like an unsourced and disputed or even refuted magazine article from the John Birch Society. Notice how my post includes viable sources. I usually post two of them to show my point has validity or at least, a degree or level of academic endorsement. I invite disagreement and discussion or challenges to my links and sources or their contents. For someone who brags about their education, you seem to have little if any genuine knowledge about accepted methods of academic debate and discussion. Mostly you just brag about how smart and educated you are.


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would conservatives or  anyone try to rewrite history to show how they were outsmarted by FDR and the Democrats and continue to be outsmarted? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because FDR was elected four times and historians always rate FDR always as one of the top three presidents?
> Almost 80 years have gone by since FDR was elected the first time and Republicans are still running against FDR. Must of been a hell of a president to get that kind of following. Maybe it's the conservative "I think history" that's the culprit?
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hat history doesn't count
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing "tinfoil hat" about it...it is the truth that isn't printed in school text books.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me explain tinfoil hat history to you
> People wear tinfoil hats to keep the evil gubmint from reading their thoughts. Your revisionist history involves our evil gubmint conspiring with the evil commies to sell out the world
> I think tinfoil hat is an appropriate description of your historical perspective
Click to expand...




Too bad the 100 million slaughtered by the Soviets....your progenitors......didn't have even tin hats to protect them.


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The fate of the Soviet Union hung in the balance at Stalingrad. They desperately needed our intervention
> 
> And still, FDR held back....waiting for the "right time"
> 
> OMG!!!!
> 
> What nonsense.
> 
> Of course, Roosevelt lap-dogs have to claim that, or they can't explain Roosevelt's obeisance to Stalin.
> 
> 
> Stalin was never.......never....going to lose to his former ally.
> 
> 
> 
> No, Germany would not have conquered the USSR.
> 
> Hitler knew that....and so must have Roosevelt.
> 
> Here are the facts:
> .. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*
> 
> Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.
> 
> The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
> Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
> 'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
> by Jacques Pauwels
> 
> "....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger USSR *in the long term. *Germany would have eventually surrendered* to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
> So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
> He didn't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> PoliticalChics  own links refute her outrageously fraudulent statement.
> 
> "Stalin was never.....nerver...going to lose to his former ally."
> This is a great example of how cherry picking and distorting quotes can completely misinform and be twisted into a fraudulent claim.
> 
> The claim that the Soviet victory over Germany was a certainty is a foundation claim to support PoliticalChics many anti-FDR threads. It is a theory with no merit and not accepted by any historians. The fate of the outcome of the war between Germany and the USSR was an unknown and historians are in fundamental agreement that while the harsh Russian winter eventually played a role, its effects could have been avoided if not for Hitler's war changing blunders in splitting his Army and getting bogged down at Stalingrad.
> 
> As pointed out, PoliticalChics own link to Global Research confirms her ignorance or willful misleading on the topic. In addition, here are other sources to prove the ignorance or willful misleading in an effort to demonize FDR.
> 
> www.2worldwar2.com/when-hitler-lost.htm
> 
> historyplace.com/worldwar2/defeat/catastrophe-stalingrad.htm
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. when Operation Barbarossa started on June 22, 1941,*the available (German) supplies of fuel, tires, spare parts etc., were only good enough for about two months.....*
> 
> Stalin, in fact, had been supplying resources to Hitler.
> 
> The Wehrmacht continued to advance, albeit*very slowly, and by mid-November*some units found themselves at only 30 kilometers from the capital. But the*troops were now totally exhausted, and running out of supplies. Their commanders knew that it was simply impossible to take Moscow.*
> Hitler s Failed Blitzkrieg against the Soviet Union. The Battle of Moscow and Stalingrad Turning Point of World War II Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization
> 72 Years Ago, December 1941: Turning Point of World War II
> 'The Victory of the Red Army in front of Moscow was a Major Break'…
> by Jacques Pauwels
> 
> 
> 
> By attacking in June,*Hitler had planned to avoid Russia's three greatest generals....December, January, and February.*
> He didn't.
> 
> 
> So....once one recognizes that Stalin was going to be the winner.....
> ....why did FDR send him supplies that the Allies could have used?
> 
> The schools hide the truth to shield FDR from richly deserved contumely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same reason so many universities eschew teaching the French Revolution....students might recognize that it gave birth to every totalitarian revolution in modern times.
> 
> 
> 
> "....realistically middle sized *Germany could not defeat the much larger Ussr*in the long term. Germany would have eventually surrendered to the western allies to prevent total occupation by the USSR ..."
> So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence(comment)
> 
> 
> 
> 11. "Between June 22, 1941, and January 31, 1942, the Germans had lost 6,000 airplanes and more than 3,200 tanks and similar vehicles; and no less than 918,000 men had been killed, wounded, or gone missing in action, amounting to 28.7 percent of the average strength of the army, namely, 3,2 million men.[33]
> 
> (In the Soviet Union, Germany would lose no less than 10 million of its total 13.5 million men killed, wounded, or taken prisoner during the entire war; and*the Red Army would end up claiming credit for 90 per cent of all Germans killed*in the Second World War.)
> Clive Ponting, 'Armageddon: The Second World War,' p. 130; Stephen E. Ambrose 'Americans at War,' p. 72. ”
> 
> 
> Gads....so easy to prove you're a lying Roosevelt boot-licker.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are repeating your trash instead of refuting my response to your nonsense. Read the entire link you have cherry picked from Global Research and or one or both of the links provided in my post and your distortion is overwhelmingly obvious. Dispute what virtually all recognized military and scholarly histories refer to as the Hitler blunder that led to Germany's defeat on the eastern front. Your predictions are speculative and in disagreement with acknowledged experts. You can not disagree with so many, in fact, all experts, and present your nonsense as fact. Winter played a role in the eventual defeat of Germany on the eastern front, but only because Hitler made the blunder of splitting his army and focusing on Stalingrad. That was the cause of the impact of winter on the German campaign. One can only speculate what would have happened if he had not split his forces and focused so much of it at the quagmire and stalemate at Stalingrad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Everything I post is accurate, correct, linked and sourced.
> 
> Your vitriol is totally understandable. You simply cannot admit, even to yourself, that you have been so fooled, for so many years, to accept and endorse *the very same beliefs as Stalin, Hitler, and pretty much every totalitarian* in modern history. Even when the proof is right before your eyes.
> 
> Understandable.....but effete.
Click to expand...

You are evading and deflecting, as usual. I have been challenging you on a very specific claim you have made, and pointed out that the claim is one you have used as the base and foundation of many of your anti-FDR threads. I have used your own link and provided two others to show your complete distortion and fraudulent use of your quotes. You are insisting that the USSR was never in danger of losing to Germany in WWII. That is a ridiculous lie that you can not back up. You are only able to distort and take out of context random quotes to promote your nonsense at best, total willful misleading at worst.


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR seized control of the government from the Republicans and the Dems didn't give it back for 20 years
> 
> Wisest decision our nation ever made
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hat history doesn't count
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing "tinfoil hat" about it...it is the truth that isn't printed in school text books.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me explain tinfoil hat history to you
> People wear tinfoil hats to keep the evil gubmint from reading their thoughts. Your revisionist history involves our evil gubmint conspiring with the evil commies to sell out the world
> I think tinfoil hat is an appropriate description of your historical perspective
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad the 100 million slaughtered by the Soviets....your progenitors......didn't have even tin hats to protect them.
Click to expand...

Sure it wasn't 100 billion?


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea how stupid and ironic your post is......and someone that knows the real history like I do, I find it hilarious as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tin foil hat history doesn't count
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing "tinfoil hat" about it...it is the truth that isn't printed in school text books.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me explain tinfoil hat history to you
> People wear tinfoil hats to keep the evil gubmint from reading their thoughts. Your revisionist history involves our evil gubmint conspiring with the evil commies to sell out the world
> I think tinfoil hat is an appropriate description of your historical perspective
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad the 100 million slaughtered by the Soviets....your progenitors......didn't have even tin hats to protect them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure it wasn't 100 billion?
Click to expand...




In another thread....  [http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/integrity-on-sale.468412/]

....I posted this:
"It just doesn't matter to Leftist voter.

That's Liberals, Progressives, Democrats......socialists.

A guy could be a rapist.....(cough..BillClinton)

A traitor who tried to make a pact with Moscow....(coughcouthTedKennedy)

*They shrug at the mention of the 100 million slain by their progenitors, the Soviet Communists.*

Or...an indicted lying fraud of a Secretary of State....

No biggie."



And you come along and verify same.
Most appreciative.


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tin foil hat history doesn't count
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing "tinfoil hat" about it...it is the truth that isn't printed in school text books.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Let me explain tinfoil hat history to you
> People wear tinfoil hats to keep the evil gubmint from reading their thoughts. Your revisionist history involves our evil gubmint conspiring with the evil commies to sell out the world
> I think tinfoil hat is an appropriate description of your historical perspective
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too bad the 100 million slaughtered by the Soviets....your progenitors......didn't have even tin hats to protect them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sure it wasn't 100 billion?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In another thread....  [http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/integrity-on-sale.468412/]
> 
> ....I posted this:
> "It just doesn't matter to Leftist voter.
> 
> That's Liberals, Progressives, Democrats......socialists.
> 
> A guy could be a rapist.....(cough..BillClinton)
> 
> A traitor who tried to make a pact with Moscow....(coughcouthTedKennedy)
> 
> *They shrug at the mention of the 100 million slain by their progenitors, the Soviet Communists.*
> 
> Or...an indicted lying fraud of a Secretary of State....
> 
> No biggie."
> 
> 
> 
> And you come along and verify same.
> Most appreciative.
Click to expand...

History according to Eva Braun


----------



## PoliticalChic

When the historic slaughter of 100 million human beings by your Soviet predecesors was noted, all you said was 

"Sure it wasn't 100 billion?"

The Liberal shrug when their crimes are revealed.

Let's add this:

*"*The mass murder of seven million Ukrainians*, three million of them children*, and deportation to the gulag of two million more (where most died) was hidden by Soviet propaganda. Pro-communist westerners, like The New York Times' Walter Duranty, British writers Sidney and Beatrice Webb and French Prime Minister Edouard Herriot, toured Ukraine, denied reports of genocide, and applauded what they called Soviet "agrarian reform."

Those who spoke out against the genocide were branded "fascist agents." Seven million died in the 'forgotten' holocaust - Eric Margolis



"...hidden by *Soviet propaganda." Much of which came from the Roosevelt White House.*



What's your response....'too bad they weren't infants'?


----------



## mamooth

A Nazi sympathizer like PC is projecting her own genocidal lust on the decent people? How ironic.

Hitler lost. FDR and the liberals spanked him. Crying about it won't change that.


----------



## PoliticalChic

mamooth said:


> A Nazi sympathizer like PC is projecting her own genocidal lust on the decent people? How ironic.
> 
> Hitler lost. FDR and the liberals spanked him. Crying about it won't change that.





When you Roosevelt boot-lickers can't find any way to respond to the facts......documented facts....that I post, you can do nothing but resort to slander.

Did I mention that you are a low-life gutter snipe?
Or did everyone else already say that.


----------



## regent

Now that you have help do America a favor and get this information to the American historians as soon as possible. They seem to be unaware of this information and by not sharing it with them seems un-American. Surely with this information they will rewrite history as you have discovered it to be. What I would give to see the expressions on their faces as they open your heavily documented evidence. Keep em flying.


----------



## Weatherman2020

rightwinger said:


> Undoubtedly our finest modern President
> 
> 1. Got us out of the Depression
> 2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%
> 3. Social Security
> 4. FDIC
> 5. National Labor Relations Act
> 6.  Led us through WWII
> 7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1
> 8.  Led us into the atomic age
> 9. Made the U.S. a Superpower
> 10. Laid the framework for the UN
> 
> Not bad for a cripple


Putting those slant eyes in concentration camps, keeping those darkies in their place and sending Jews fleeing Hitler back to Germany were masterful examples of a great President.


----------



## regent

Weatherman2020 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Undoubtedly our finest modern President
> 
> 1. Got us out of the Depression
> 2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%
> 3. Social Security
> 4. FDIC
> 5. National Labor Relations Act
> 6.  Led us through WWII
> 7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1
> 8.  Led us into the atomic age
> 9. Made the U.S. a Superpower
> 10. Laid the framework for the UN
> 
> Not bad for a cripple
> 
> 
> 
> Putting those slant eyes in concentration camps, keeping those darkies in their place and sending Jews fleeing Hitler back to Germany were masterful examples of a great President.
Click to expand...

So why does the Japanese-American's, the black, and the Jewish vote always seem to  go for the party of FDR, the Democratic party?


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> Now that you have help do America a favor and get this information to the American historians as soon as possible. They seem to be unaware of this information and by not sharing it with them seems un-American. Surely with this information they will rewrite history as you have discovered it to be. What I would give to see the expressions on their faces as they open your heavily documented evidence. Keep em flying.




So....this obfuscation is, in actuality, an admission that there is *not a single innocent American whose life was ruined by the hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy*, with false accusations.

Exactly as I stated earlier.

For all your bloviation, all of you Roosevelt groupies fall flat on your faces when the name of any such individual is requested.


One wonders how you square proof that this experiment provides with your indoctrination.
You folks must be very, very stupid, or very, very dishonest.


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Undoubtedly our finest modern President
> 
> 1. Got us out of the Depression
> 2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%
> 3. Social Security
> 4. FDIC
> 5. National Labor Relations Act
> 6.  Led us through WWII
> 7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1
> 8.  Led us into the atomic age
> 9. Made the U.S. a Superpower
> 10. Laid the framework for the UN
> 
> Not bad for a cripple
> 
> 
> 
> Putting those slant eyes in concentration camps, keeping those darkies in their place and sending Jews fleeing Hitler back to Germany were masterful examples of a great President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why does the Japanese-American's, the black, and the Jewish vote always seem to  go for the party of FDR, the Democratic party?
Click to expand...




Interesting that you didn't try to deny that Roosevelt has a long history of hostility toward blacks, Jews and Asians.


Yet you continue to worship this demigod.


"This attitude dovetails with what is known about *FDR's views regarding immigrants in general and Asian immigrants in particular..*.. He recommended that *future immigration should be limited to those who had "blood of the right sort." "                                                       **FDR's troubling view of Jews*


----------



## regent

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that you have help do America a favor and get this information to the American historians as soon as possible. They seem to be unaware of this information and by not sharing it with them seems un-American. Surely with this information they will rewrite history as you have discovered it to be. What I would give to see the expressions on their faces as they open your heavily documented evidence. Keep em flying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So....this obfuscation is, in actuality, an admission that there is *not a single innocent American whose life was ruined by the hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy*, with false accusations.
> 
> Exactly as I stated earlier.
> 
> For all your bloviation, all of you Roosevelt groupies fall flat on your faces when the name of any such individual is requested.
> 
> 
> One wonders how you square proof that this experiment provides with your indoctrination.
> You folks must be very, very stupid, or very, very dishonest.
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for the names of those commies in the State Department caught by McCarthy. In any case you might start with accurate numbers since McCarthy seemed to keep  kept changing the numbers. So how many and what were their names?


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that you have help do America a favor and get this information to the American historians as soon as possible. They seem to be unaware of this information and by not sharing it with them seems un-American. Surely with this information they will rewrite history as you have discovered it to be. What I would give to see the expressions on their faces as they open your heavily documented evidence. Keep em flying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So....this obfuscation is, in actuality, an admission that there is *not a single innocent American whose life was ruined by the hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy*, with false accusations.
> 
> Exactly as I stated earlier.
> 
> For all your bloviation, all of you Roosevelt groupies fall flat on your faces when the name of any such individual is requested.
> 
> 
> One wonders how you square proof that this experiment provides with your indoctrination.
> You folks must be very, very stupid, or very, very dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm still waiting for the names of those commies in the State Department caught by McCarthy. In any case you might start with accurate numbers since McCarthy seemed to keep  kept changing the numbers. So how many and what were their names?
Click to expand...




Name them, you dolt.


----------



## Weatherman2020

regent said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Undoubtedly our finest modern President
> 
> 1. Got us out of the Depression
> 2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%
> 3. Social Security
> 4. FDIC
> 5. National Labor Relations Act
> 6.  Led us through WWII
> 7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1
> 8.  Led us into the atomic age
> 9. Made the U.S. a Superpower
> 10. Laid the framework for the UN
> 
> Not bad for a cripple
> 
> 
> 
> Putting those slant eyes in concentration camps, keeping those darkies in their place and sending Jews fleeing Hitler back to Germany were masterful examples of a great President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why does the Japanese-American's, the black, and the Jewish vote always seem to  go for the party of FDR, the Democratic party?
Click to expand...

Why do most women return to their abusive husbands?

Historical fact FDRs treatment of Asians, Jews and Blacks.
Probably why you worship him.


----------



## rightwinger

Weatherman2020 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Undoubtedly our finest modern President
> 
> 1. Got us out of the Depression
> 2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%
> 3. Social Security
> 4. FDIC
> 5. National Labor Relations Act
> 6.  Led us through WWII
> 7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1
> 8.  Led us into the atomic age
> 9. Made the U.S. a Superpower
> 10. Laid the framework for the UN
> 
> Not bad for a cripple
> 
> 
> 
> Putting those slant eyes in concentration camps, keeping those darkies in their place and sending Jews fleeing Hitler back to Germany were masterful examples of a great President.
Click to expand...

Very true
And Monday Morning Quarterbacking is a valuable tool
Both the Republicans and the Supreme Court supported the internment of Japanese citizens....as did an overwhelming majority of Americans
Same goes for allowing Jews to immigrate. Just look how conservatives today are reacting to Syrian refugees

Civil Rights was not politically expedient for FDR or the Republicans at that time. However, the great Elenore Roosevelt was one of the largest Civil Rights advocates of the era


----------



## regent

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that you have help do America a favor and get this information to the American historians as soon as possible. They seem to be unaware of this information and by not sharing it with them seems un-American. Surely with this information they will rewrite history as you have discovered it to be. What I would give to see the expressions on their faces as they open your heavily documented evidence. Keep em flying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So....this obfuscation is, in actuality, an admission that there is *not a single innocent American whose life was ruined by the hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy*, with false accusations.
> 
> Exactly as I stated earlier.
> 
> For all your bloviation, all of you Roosevelt groupies fall flat on your faces when the name of any such individual is requested.
> 
> 
> One wonders how you square proof that this experiment provides with your indoctrination.
> You folks must be very, very stupid, or very, very dishonest.
Click to expand...

Well McCarthyism seemed to ruin one life and that was Senator McCarthy's. Would have to check to see how Shine and Cohen fared.


----------



## rightwinger

regent said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that you have help do America a favor and get this information to the American historians as soon as possible. They seem to be unaware of this information and by not sharing it with them seems un-American. Surely with this information they will rewrite history as you have discovered it to be. What I would give to see the expressions on their faces as they open your heavily documented evidence. Keep em flying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So....this obfuscation is, in actuality, an admission that there is *not a single innocent American whose life was ruined by the hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy*, with false accusations.
> 
> Exactly as I stated earlier.
> 
> For all your bloviation, all of you Roosevelt groupies fall flat on your faces when the name of any such individual is requested.
> 
> 
> One wonders how you square proof that this experiment provides with your indoctrination.
> You folks must be very, very stupid, or very, very dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well McCarthyism seemed to ruin one life and that was Senator McCarthy's. Would have to check to see how Shine and Cohen fared.
Click to expand...

Roy Cohen died AIDS infected


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that you have help do America a favor and get this information to the American historians as soon as possible. They seem to be unaware of this information and by not sharing it with them seems un-American. Surely with this information they will rewrite history as you have discovered it to be. What I would give to see the expressions on their faces as they open your heavily documented evidence. Keep em flying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So....this obfuscation is, in actuality, an admission that there is *not a single innocent American whose life was ruined by the hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy*, with false accusations.
> 
> Exactly as I stated earlier.
> 
> For all your bloviation, all of you Roosevelt groupies fall flat on your faces when the name of any such individual is requested.
> 
> 
> One wonders how you square proof that this experiment provides with your indoctrination.
> You folks must be very, very stupid, or very, very dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well McCarthyism seemed to ruin one life and that was Senator McCarthy's. Would have to check to see how Shine and Cohen fared.
Click to expand...



I see you've decided to throw in the towel.

No fun.


----------



## Weatherman2020

rightwinger said:


> Weatherman2020 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Undoubtedly our finest modern President
> 
> 1. Got us out of the Depression
> 2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%
> 3. Social Security
> 4. FDIC
> 5. National Labor Relations Act
> 6.  Led us through WWII
> 7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1
> 8.  Led us into the atomic age
> 9. Made the U.S. a Superpower
> 10. Laid the framework for the UN
> 
> Not bad for a cripple
> 
> 
> 
> Putting those slant eyes in concentration camps, keeping those darkies in their place and sending Jews fleeing Hitler back to Germany were masterful examples of a great President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Very true
> And Monday Morning Quarterbacking is a valuable tool
> Both the Republicans and the Supreme Court supported the internment of Japanese citizens....as did an overwhelming majority of Americans
> Same goes for allowing Jews to immigrate. Just look how conservatives today are reacting to Syrian refugees
> 
> Civil Rights was not politically expedient for FDR or the Republicans at that time. However, the great Elenore Roosevelt was one of the largest Civil Rights advocates of the era
Click to expand...

Comparing Jews from 1930's immigrating to Syrians of today is rather mind boggling. 
Thanks to Merkle in Germany, we are justified in not wanting hundreds of thousands of foreign Muslims here.  3 Immigrant Muslims here in the past month have committed acts of terrorism.

But what is most telling is that like in the 1930's the world refuses to confront and squash evil, and instead chooses to deal with those fleeing.


----------



## Dale Smith

regent said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that you have help do America a favor and get this information to the American historians as soon as possible. They seem to be unaware of this information and by not sharing it with them seems un-American. Surely with this information they will rewrite history as you have discovered it to be. What I would give to see the expressions on their faces as they open your heavily documented evidence. Keep em flying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So....this obfuscation is, in actuality, an admission that there is *not a single innocent American whose life was ruined by the hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy*, with false accusations.
> 
> Exactly as I stated earlier.
> 
> For all your bloviation, all of you Roosevelt groupies fall flat on your faces when the name of any such individual is requested.
> 
> 
> One wonders how you square proof that this experiment provides with your indoctrination.
> You folks must be very, very stupid, or very, very dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm still waiting for the names of those commies in the State Department caught by McCarthy. In any case you might start with accurate numbers since McCarthy seemed to keep  kept changing the numbers. So how many and what were their names?
Click to expand...


WASHINGTON — Although Joseph McCarthy was one of the most demonized American politicians of the last century, new information — including half-century-old FBI recordings of Soviet embassy conversations — are showing that McCarthy was right in nearly all his accusations.
“With Joe McCarthy it was the losers who’ve written the history which condemns him,” said Dan Flynn, director of Accuracy in Academia’s recent national conference on McCarthy, broadcast by C-SPAN.
Using new information obtained from studies of old Soviet files in Moscow and now the famous Venona Intercepts — FBI recordings of Soviet embassy communications between 1944-48 — the record is showing that McCarthy was essentially right. He had many weaknesses, but almost every case he charged has now been proven correct. Whether it was stealing atomic secrets or influencing U.S. foreign policy, communist victories in the 1940s were fed by an incredibly vast spy and influence network.
The conference, a gathering of old McCarthyites and younger scholars, commemorated the senator’s first speech, in Wheeling, W. Va., 50 years ago, when he first held up a list of names of employees of the State Department whom, he said, were major security risks. McCarthy questioned how, in six short years after America’s winning of World War II, the communist world was triumphant and had expanded to include 800 million people.
Of the lists, a key one consisted of 108 names from a House Appropriations Committee report, of persons declared as “security risks” in the State Department — the Lee List. The House committee chairman had complained that State wasn’t bothering to do anything about the suspects. Details of the list and its accusations were presented at the conference.
Speakers detailed many of the cover-ups used to smear McCarthy. Veteran journalist and teacher Stan Evans, director of National Journalism Center, told of the Tydings Committee, which had investigated McCarthy’s charges of communists in government. Its report had exonerated everybody. Among the accused it stated categorically that there was no evidence against Owen Lattimore, a man McCarthy said was a major figure in the communist conspiracy. Lattimore had been Roosevelt’s key advisor on China policy. Yet Evans showed evidence from 5,000 pages of FBI files on him — files released only a few years ago to the public, although the White House had access to them.
However, evidence before the committee showed that Lattimore had supported Soviet policy at every turn, even declaring that the Stalin purge trials in Russia, “sound like democracy to me.” With then-Vice President Henry Wallace in Russia, Lattimore compared concentration camps to the Tennessee Valley Authority, and later urged Washington to abandon China to communism and to withdraw from Japan and Korea. FBI chief J. Edgar Hoover, who had fed information to McCarthy, broke with him afterwards, fearing McCarthy would prejudice FBI sources of information for its criminal prosecutions.
Although most of McCarthy’s cases involved actual spies and “security risks,” the really important issue was that of communist influence over American foreign policy, argued Evans. Harry Hopkins, Roosevelt’s closest advisor who lived in the White House, had regular contacts with Soviet intelligence. He helped bring about the disastrous Yalta and Pottsdam agreements. The Morganthau Plan, to prevent German reconstruction and starve the Germans to make them desperate enough to go communist, was the product of Laughlin Currie and Harry Dexter White at the Treasury Department. The abandonment of Chiang Kai-shek by denying military support was the product of “China Hands” led by John Stewart Service, John Patton Davies, and Lattimore. Evans described other major spy networks — in England, the Burgess Maclean group which infiltrated Washington as well as London.
Reed Irvine, chairman of Accuracy in Media, told how he himself had been a leftist in his early career. He had been against McCarthy, but McCarthy’s speeches had made him think and start to read “evidence that I had avoided.” He described how all during his military career as a Marine officer and later in Japan with the U.S. occupation he had never hidden his leftist views and later had even been offered a job at the CIA. Irvine argued that real communists were only in the hundreds, but that thousands of leftists, such as he, all feared McCarthy and had wanted him discredited.
Pulling all the latest evidence together was luncheon speaker Professor Arthur Herman. His new book, “Joseph McCarthy: Reexamining the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator,” and featured in the Sunday New York Times Magazine, shows the vindication of most of McCarthy’s charges. Herman, who is also coordinator of the Smithsonian’s Western Heritage Program, said that the accuracy of McCarthy’s charges “was no longer a matter of debate,” that they are “now accepted as fact.” However, the term “McCarthyism” still remains in the language.
Asked whether McCarthy had understood all the forces arrayed against him, Herman said no, that McCarthy hadn’t realized he’d be fighting against much of the Washington establishment. President Truman was fearful that exposures would reflect on key Democrat officials, he said, and big media and the academic world were very leftist, a heritage of the Depression and World War II. High government officials also feared investigations of their past appointments and associations with people who turned out to be communists or sympathizers.
That was the reason McCarthy was so demonized, he said.
Joe McCarthy had been a Marine air gunner, an amateur boxer, a county judge and towards his end, under constant attack, he began to drink heavily. Herman said he certainly was over his head and his fall came about after sweeping attacks on General Marshall and the Army. Senator Taft and other key supporters began to draw away from him.
If Robert Kennedy, his competent and well-connected co-counsel, had stayed on, McCarthy might have behaved more carefully, said Herman. An argument with other co-counsel Roy Cohn left Cohn in charge, but Cohn and staffer David Schine were disastrous for McCarthy. Still, McCarthy’s original charges helped bring about Eisenhower’s electoral victory and the defeat of the Democrats and key leftist Democratic senators such as Tydings of Maryland. Four years after his original charges, Joe McCarthy was censured by the Senate and died shortly thereafter.
There is more evidence to come. Herb Romerstein, another speaker, who started out with the old House Un-American Activities Committee, is writing a book about the Venona FBI intercepts and their links to other evidence from his comprehensive study in Russia of Soviet archives, made available to Westerners since the fall of communism. His book, The Venona Secrets, will be released by Regnery Gateway this fall.

Audiotapes of the “Accuracy in Academia” conference are available online.

_Jon Utley, a former foreign correspondent in Latin America and a longtime commentator for the Voice of America, is the Robert A. Taft Fellow for Constitutional and International Studies at the Ludwig von Mises Institute._


----------



## Dale Smith

regent said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now that you have help do America a favor and get this information to the American historians as soon as possible. They seem to be unaware of this information and by not sharing it with them seems un-American. Surely with this information they will rewrite history as you have discovered it to be. What I would give to see the expressions on their faces as they open your heavily documented evidence. Keep em flying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So....this obfuscation is, in actuality, an admission that there is *not a single innocent American whose life was ruined by the hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy*, with false accusations.
> 
> Exactly as I stated earlier.
> 
> For all your bloviation, all of you Roosevelt groupies fall flat on your faces when the name of any such individual is requested.
> 
> 
> One wonders how you square proof that this experiment provides with your indoctrination.
> You folks must be very, very stupid, or very, very dishonest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well McCarthyism seemed to ruin one life and that was Senator McCarthy's. Would have to check to see how Shine and Cohen fared.
Click to expand...

The deciphered Venona messages also showed that a disturbing number of high-ranking U.S. government officials consciously maintained a clandestine relationship with Soviet intelligence agencies and had passed extraordinarily sensitive information to the Soviet Union that had seriously damaged American interests. Harry White--the second most powerful official in the U.S. Treasury Department, one of the most influential officials in the government, and part of the American delegation at the founding of the United Nations--had advised the KGB about how American diplomatic strategy could be frustrated. A trusted personal assistant to President Franklin Roosevelt, Lauchlin Currie, warned the KGB that the FBI had started an investigation of one of the Soviets' key American agents, Gregory Silvermaster. This warning allowed Silvermaster, who headed a highly productive espionage ring, to escape detection and continue spying. Maurice Halperin, the head of a research section of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), then America's chief intelligence arm, turned over hundreds of pages of secret American diplomatic cables to the KGB. William Perl, a brilliant young government aeronautical scientist, provided the Soviets with the results of the highly secret tests and design experiments for American jet engines and jet aircraft. His betrayal assisted the Soviet Union in quickly overcoming the American technological lead in the development of jets. In the Korean War, U.S. military leaders expected the Air Force to dominate the skies, on the assumption that the Soviet aircraft used by North Korea and Communist China would be no match for American aircraft. They were shocked when Soviet MiG-15 jet fighters not only flew rings around U.S. propeller-driven aircraft but were conspicuously superior to the first generation of American jets as well. Only the hurried deployment of America's newest jet fighter, the F-86 Saber, allowed the United States to match the technological capabilities of the MiG-15. The Air Force prevailed, owing more to the skill of American pilots than to the design of American aircraft.
    And then there were the atomic spies. From within the Manhattan Project two physicists, Klaus Fuchs and Theodore Hall, and one technician, David Greenglass, transmitted the complex formula for extracting bomb-grade uranium from ordinary uranium, the technical plans for production facilities, and the engineering principles for the "implosion" technique. The latter process made possible an atomic bomb using plutonium, a substance much easier to manufacture than bomb-grade uranium.
    The betrayal of American atomic secrets to the Soviets allowed the Soviet Union to develop atomic weapons several years sooner and at a substantially lower cost than it otherwise would have. Joseph Stalin's knowledge that espionage assured the Soviet Union of quickly breaking the American atomic monopoly emboldened his diplomatic strategy in his early Cold War clashes with the United States. It is doubtful that Stalin, rarely a risk-taker, would have supplied the military wherewithal and authorized North Korea to invade South Korea in 1950 had the Soviet Union not exploded an atomic bomb in 1949. Otherwise Stalin might have feared that President Harry Truman would stanch any North Korean invasion by threatening to use atomic weapons. After all, as soon as the atomic bomb had been developed, Truman had not hesitated to use it twice to end the war with Japan. But in 1950, with Stalin in possession of the atomic bomb, Truman was deterred from using atomic weapons in Korea, even in the late summer when initially unprepared American forces were driven back into the tip of Korea and in danger of being pushed into the sea, and then again in the winter when Communist Chinese forces entered the war in massive numbers. The killing and maiming of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians on both sides of the war in Korea might have been averted had the Soviets not been able to parry the American atomic threat.
    Early Soviet possession of the atomic bomb had an important psychological consequence. When the Soviet Union exploded a nuclear device in 1949, ordinary Americans as well as the nation's leaders realized that a cruel despot, Joseph Stalin, had just gained the power to destroy cities at will. This perception colored the early Cold War with the hues of apocalypse. Though the Cold War never lost the potential of becoming a civilization-destroying conflict, Stalin's death in March 1953 noticeably relaxed Soviet-American tensions. With less successful espionage, the Soviet Union might not have developed the bomb until after Stalin's death, and the early Cold War might have proceeded on a far less frightening path.
    Venona decryptions identified most of the Soviet spies uncovered by American counterintelligence between 1948 and the mid-1950s. The skill and perseverance of the Venona code-breakers led the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and British counterintelligence (MI5) to the atomic spy Klaus Fuchs. Venona documents unmistakably identified Julius Rosenberg as the head of a Soviet spy ring and David Greenglass, his brother-in-law, as a Soviet source at the secret atomic bomb facility at Los Alamos, New Mexico. Leads from decrypted telegrams exposed the senior British diplomat Donald Maclean as a major spy in the British embassy in Washington and precipitated his flight to the Soviet Union, along with his fellow diplomat and spy Guy Burgess. The arrest and prosecution of such spies as Judith Coplon, Robert Soblen, and Jack Soble was possible because American intelligence was able to read Soviet reports about their activities. The charges by the former Soviet spy Elizabeth Bentley that several dozen mid-level government officials, mostly secret Communists, had assisted Soviet intelligence were corroborated in Venona documents and assured American authorities of her veracity.

Venona


----------



## westwall

Moonglow said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
Click to expand...







You can thank Marshall for the American victory in WWII.  When FDR and his acolytes were strangling the US military it was Marshall who ensured that the brightest minds were placed in the most appropriate positions to prepare for the inevitable war that he knew was coming thanks to the progressives lack of diplomatic skills to keep Hitler et al under control.  

Marshall, more than any other person is responsible for the USA's victory in WWII and the elevation to super power.


----------



## Old Rocks

Kosh said:


> 1. Lied the US into WWII
> 2. Attacked a Country that did not attack the US..
> 3. Rounded up Americans and gave them loyalty tests.
> 4. Built the military industrial complex that the far left wants to dismantle.
> 5. Created the Welfare Society that was supposed to be temporary..
> 7. Started social security and sold to the American people as temporary.
> 8. Reinstated the income tax to pay for the war which was supposed to be temporary.
> 9. Tried to replace judges that were against is socialist/communist bills..
> 10. Had a privileged childhood.
> 11. Tried to increase the size of the Supreme Court.
> 12. One of the top racist presidents of all time..
> 
> etc...


hey, corksmoker, explain #2.


----------



## regent

Old Rocks said:


> Kosh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Lied the US into WWII
> 2. Attacked a Country that did not attack the US..
> 3. Rounded up Americans and gave them loyalty tests.
> 4. Built the military industrial complex that the far left wants to dismantle.
> 5. Created the Welfare Society that was supposed to be temporary..
> 7. Started social security and sold to the American people as temporary.
> 8. Reinstated the income tax to pay for the war which was supposed to be temporary.
> 9. Tried to replace judges that were against is socialist/communist bills..
> 10. Had a privileged childhood.
> 11. Tried to increase the size of the Supreme Court.
> 12. One of the top racist presidents of all time..
> 
> etc...
> 
> 
> 
> hey, corksmoker, explain #2.
Click to expand...

Hey, you know Hitler, always playing around and his declaring war on the US was a real gasser. Play, play, play what a guy. Damn FDR took him seriously.
By the way to number 11, know of any other presidents that changed the Supreme Court to affect legislation, there were three.
FDR didn't round up the Japanese and Japanese-Americans for loyalty oaths but to prevent possible sabotage.
Social Security was permanent and always meant to be. In fact, it was created so Republicans could not drop it when in office.
As for the privileged, the Constitution makes no mention of it, America being the land of equality and all that.
An amendment to the Constitution does not seem temporary.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> ...
> FDR didn't round up the Japanese and Japanese-Americans for loyalty oaths but to prevent possible sabotage.....




Bullshit.


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> FDR didn't round up the Japanese and Japanese-Americans for loyalty oaths but to prevent possible sabotage.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
Click to expand...

Is that your favorite response or the easiest? In any case are you suggesting that loyalty oaths were FDR's reason for the internment camps?


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> FDR didn't round up the Japanese and Japanese-Americans for loyalty oaths but to prevent possible sabotage.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that your favorite response or the easiest? In any case are you suggesting that loyalty oaths were FDR's reason for the internment camps?
Click to expand...


Nope.


----------



## rightwinger

Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President

He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> FDR didn't round up the Japanese and Japanese-Americans for loyalty oaths but to prevent possible sabotage.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that your favorite response or the easiest? In any case are you suggesting that loyalty oaths were FDR's reason for the internment camps?
Click to expand...



1. "Civil liberties were given up during WWII. Also a surprising fact, to me at least, was to find out that although FDR and Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren favored the internment of Japanese Americans, one of the most significant conservative figures of that time and for some time in the future was against it, and that man was John Edgar Hoover. We also learn that all the things that Nixon was accused of doing during the Watergate scandal, FDR and his cronies had done to a greater extent about 30 years earlier and to a greater degree."  

2. "The internment of 110,000 Japanese seems to have been largely political. Earl Warren of California was sensitive to his constituents resenting the large success of the Japanese in agriculture. And, interned, they couldn’t vote against FDR, and he did pick up three House seats…and after the election he began to move for the release of the Japanese.:  
_"FDR Goes To War: How Expanded Executive Power, Spiraling National Debt, And Restricted Civil Liberties Shaped Wartime America," _by Burton W. Folsom Jr. and Anita Folsom


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover



The 'without question' part is an indication of serious cerebral damage...an industrial accident???.....you should have looked at.


----------



## Camp

Before FDR the focus of government was on big business and a belief in the trickle-down theory. The guiding force behind the economy was that if big business did well, the benefits would trickle down to the masses. FDR changed that. He put the government's focus on the masses and introduced the trickle up theory. If the masses do well financially, the benefits will trickle up to big business. It worked, but big business has been fighting it and trying to get back to a trickle-down economy ever since.


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> FDR didn't round up the Japanese and Japanese-Americans for loyalty oaths but to prevent possible sabotage.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that your favorite response or the easiest? In any case are you suggesting that loyalty oaths were FDR's reason for the internment camps?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Civil liberties were given up during WWII. Also a surprising fact, to me at least, was to find out that although FDR and Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren favored the internment of Japanese Americans, one of the most significant conservative figures of that time and for some time in the future was against it, and that man was John Edgar Hoover. We also learn that all the things that Nixon was accused of doing during the Watergate scandal, FDR and his cronies had done to a greater extent about 30 years earlier and to a greater degree."
> 
> 2. "The internment of 110,000 Japanese seems to have been largely political. Earl Warren of California was sensitive to his constituents resenting the large success of the Japanese in agriculture. And, interned, they couldn’t vote against FDR, and he did pick up three House seats…and after the election he began to move for the release of the Japanese.:
> _"FDR Goes To War: How Expanded Executive Power, Spiraling National Debt, And Restricted Civil Liberties Shaped Wartime America," _by Burton W. Folsom Jr. and Anita Folsom
Click to expand...


Revisionist history is great isn't it?
You get to look at decisions from 75, 150, 200 years ago and condemn them as inappropriate

Washington and Jefferson owned slaves
Lincoln did not agree with the equality of blacks or women
FDR interred Japanese citizens

Guess there were no great American Presidents


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 'without question' part is an indication of serious cerebral damage...an industrial accident???.....you should have looked at.
Click to expand...


Without question as in by a huge margin

There is no other modern President even close to FDR


----------



## Unkotare

That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover


Without question the worst president since Dishonest Abe.


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.



Desperate times called for desperate measures

The Great Depression and WWII. Two cataclysmic events. Not time to play mother may I and worry about the hurt feelings of Congress

FDR stepped to the plate and dared them......Try and stop me


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> FDR didn't round up the Japanese and Japanese-Americans for loyalty oaths but to prevent possible sabotage.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that your favorite response or the easiest? In any case are you suggesting that loyalty oaths were FDR's reason for the internment camps?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Civil liberties were given up during WWII. Also a surprising fact, to me at least, was to find out that although FDR and Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren favored the internment of Japanese Americans, one of the most significant conservative figures of that time and for some time in the future was against it, and that man was John Edgar Hoover. We also learn that all the things that Nixon was accused of doing during the Watergate scandal, FDR and his cronies had done to a greater extent about 30 years earlier and to a greater degree."
> 
> 2. "The internment of 110,000 Japanese seems to have been largely political. Earl Warren of California was sensitive to his constituents resenting the large success of the Japanese in agriculture. And, interned, they couldn’t vote against FDR, and he did pick up three House seats…and after the election he began to move for the release of the Japanese.:
> _"FDR Goes To War: How Expanded Executive Power, Spiraling National Debt, And Restricted Civil Liberties Shaped Wartime America," _by Burton W. Folsom Jr. and Anita Folsom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Revisionist history is great isn't it?
> You get to look at decisions from 75, 150, 200 years ago and condemn them as inappropriate
> 
> Washington and Jefferson owned slaves
> Lincoln did not agree with the equality of blacks or women
> FDR interred Japanese citizens
> 
> Guess there were no great American Presidents
Click to expand...






"Guess there were no great American Presidents."

The one who reversed Roosevelt's support for Soviet Communism....the great Ronaldus Maximus.

He also reversed FDR's Depression with a 'golden age' of domestic economics.

You should read about that....
...er, have someone read it to you.


----------



## Camp

Unkotare said:


> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.


The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west. 
The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> FDR didn't round up the Japanese and Japanese-Americans for loyalty oaths but to prevent possible sabotage.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that your favorite response or the easiest? In any case are you suggesting that loyalty oaths were FDR's reason for the internment camps?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Civil liberties were given up during WWII. Also a surprising fact, to me at least, was to find out that although FDR and Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren favored the internment of Japanese Americans, one of the most significant conservative figures of that time and for some time in the future was against it, and that man was John Edgar Hoover. We also learn that all the things that Nixon was accused of doing during the Watergate scandal, FDR and his cronies had done to a greater extent about 30 years earlier and to a greater degree."
> 
> 2. "The internment of 110,000 Japanese seems to have been largely political. Earl Warren of California was sensitive to his constituents resenting the large success of the Japanese in agriculture. And, interned, they couldn’t vote against FDR, and he did pick up three House seats…and after the election he began to move for the release of the Japanese.:
> _"FDR Goes To War: How Expanded Executive Power, Spiraling National Debt, And Restricted Civil Liberties Shaped Wartime America," _by Burton W. Folsom Jr. and Anita Folsom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Revisionist history is great isn't it?
> You get to look at decisions from 75, 150, 200 years ago and condemn them as inappropriate
> 
> Washington and Jefferson owned slaves
> Lincoln did not agree with the equality of blacks or women
> FDR interred Japanese citizens
> 
> Guess there were no great American Presidents
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Guess there were no great American Presidents."
> 
> The one who reversed Roosevelt's support for Soviet Communism....the great Ronaldus Maximus.
> 
> He also revered FDR's Depression with a 'golden age' of domestic economics.
> 
> You should read about that....
> ...er, have someone read it to you.
Click to expand...


Reagan was an FDR supporter


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> FDR didn't round up the Japanese and Japanese-Americans for loyalty oaths but to prevent possible sabotage.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is that your favorite response or the easiest? In any case are you suggesting that loyalty oaths were FDR's reason for the internment camps?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Civil liberties were given up during WWII. Also a surprising fact, to me at least, was to find out that although FDR and Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren favored the internment of Japanese Americans, one of the most significant conservative figures of that time and for some time in the future was against it, and that man was John Edgar Hoover. We also learn that all the things that Nixon was accused of doing during the Watergate scandal, FDR and his cronies had done to a greater extent about 30 years earlier and to a greater degree."
> 
> 2. "The internment of 110,000 Japanese seems to have been largely political. Earl Warren of California was sensitive to his constituents resenting the large success of the Japanese in agriculture. And, interned, they couldn’t vote against FDR, and he did pick up three House seats…and after the election he began to move for the release of the Japanese.:
> _"FDR Goes To War: How Expanded Executive Power, Spiraling National Debt, And Restricted Civil Liberties Shaped Wartime America," _by Burton W. Folsom Jr. and Anita Folsom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Revisionist history is great isn't it?
> You get to look at decisions from 75, 150, 200 years ago and condemn them as inappropriate
> 
> Washington and Jefferson owned slaves
> Lincoln did not agree with the equality of blacks or women
> FDR interred Japanese citizens
> 
> Guess there were no great American Presidents
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Guess there were no great American Presidents."
> 
> The one who reversed Roosevelt's support for Soviet Communism....the great Ronaldus Maximus.
> 
> He also revered FDR's Depression with a 'golden age' of domestic economics.
> 
> You should read about that....
> ...er, have someone read it to you.
Click to expand...

The Cold War was developed under Truman and Eisenhower. No one can possibly know how FDR would have handled Stalin and the USSR when WWll ended. FDR had died. He was dead. 
The USSR fell after Reagan left office. Historians record that Reagan was one of the several figures that helped bring about the fall. Many argue that the Pope had far more influence than Reagan. FDR smashed Japan and Germany into unconditional surrenders, America still faces the remnants of the USSR.


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your favorite response or the easiest? In any case are you suggesting that loyalty oaths were FDR's reason for the internment camps?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Civil liberties were given up during WWII. Also a surprising fact, to me at least, was to find out that although FDR and Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren favored the internment of Japanese Americans, one of the most significant conservative figures of that time and for some time in the future was against it, and that man was John Edgar Hoover. We also learn that all the things that Nixon was accused of doing during the Watergate scandal, FDR and his cronies had done to a greater extent about 30 years earlier and to a greater degree."
> 
> 2. "The internment of 110,000 Japanese seems to have been largely political. Earl Warren of California was sensitive to his constituents resenting the large success of the Japanese in agriculture. And, interned, they couldn’t vote against FDR, and he did pick up three House seats…and after the election he began to move for the release of the Japanese.:
> _"FDR Goes To War: How Expanded Executive Power, Spiraling National Debt, And Restricted Civil Liberties Shaped Wartime America," _by Burton W. Folsom Jr. and Anita Folsom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Revisionist history is great isn't it?
> You get to look at decisions from 75, 150, 200 years ago and condemn them as inappropriate
> 
> Washington and Jefferson owned slaves
> Lincoln did not agree with the equality of blacks or women
> FDR interred Japanese citizens
> 
> Guess there were no great American Presidents
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Guess there were no great American Presidents."
> 
> The one who reversed Roosevelt's support for Soviet Communism....the great Ronaldus Maximus.
> 
> He also revered FDR's Depression with a 'golden age' of domestic economics.
> 
> You should read about that....
> ...er, have someone read it to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Reagan was an FDR supporter
Click to expand...



Good to see you didn't deny this:

The one who reversed Roosevelt's support for Soviet Communism....the great Ronaldus Maximus.

He also revered FDR's Depression with a 'golden age' of domestic economics.


So....you're learning?


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate times called for desperate measures
> 
> The Great Depression and WWII. Two cataclysmic events. Not time to play mother may I and worry about the hurt feelings of Congress
> 
> FDR stepped to the plate and dared them......Try and stop me
Click to expand...










Despots have always relied on the weakness and fear of pawns like you.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your favorite response or the easiest? In any case are you suggesting that loyalty oaths were FDR's reason for the internment camps?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Civil liberties were given up during WWII. Also a surprising fact, to me at least, was to find out that although FDR and Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren favored the internment of Japanese Americans, one of the most significant conservative figures of that time and for some time in the future was against it, and that man was John Edgar Hoover. We also learn that all the things that Nixon was accused of doing during the Watergate scandal, FDR and his cronies had done to a greater extent about 30 years earlier and to a greater degree."
> 
> 2. "The internment of 110,000 Japanese seems to have been largely political. Earl Warren of California was sensitive to his constituents resenting the large success of the Japanese in agriculture. And, interned, they couldn’t vote against FDR, and he did pick up three House seats…and after the election he began to move for the release of the Japanese.:
> _"FDR Goes To War: How Expanded Executive Power, Spiraling National Debt, And Restricted Civil Liberties Shaped Wartime America," _by Burton W. Folsom Jr. and Anita Folsom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Revisionist history is great isn't it?
> You get to look at decisions from 75, 150, 200 years ago and condemn them as inappropriate
> 
> Washington and Jefferson owned slaves
> Lincoln did not agree with the equality of blacks or women
> FDR interred Japanese citizens
> 
> Guess there were no great American Presidents
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Guess there were no great American Presidents."
> 
> The one who reversed Roosevelt's support for Soviet Communism....the great Ronaldus Maximus.
> 
> He also revered FDR's Depression with a 'golden age' of domestic economics.
> 
> You should read about that....
> ...er, have someone read it to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Cold War was developed under Truman and Eisenhower. No one can possibly know how FDR would have handled Stalin and the USSR when WWll ended. FDR had died. He was dead.
> The USSR fell after Reagan left office. Historians record that Reagan was one of the several figures that helped bring about the fall. Many argue that the Pope had far more influence than Reagan. FDR smashed Japan and Germany into unconditional surrenders, America still faces the remnants of the USSR.
Click to expand...




" No one can possibly know how FDR would have handled Stalin..."


For clarity....are you truly this stupid...or simply a boilerplate-Liberal-liar?


RSVP


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate times called for desperate measures
> 
> The Great Depression and WWII. Two cataclysmic events. Not time to play mother may I and worry about the hurt feelings of Congress
> 
> FDR stepped to the plate and dared them......Try and stop me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despots have always relied on the weakness and fear of pawns like you.
Click to expand...


Despots are not elected four times


----------



## PoliticalChic

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate times called for desperate measures
> 
> The Great Depression and WWII. Two cataclysmic events. Not time to play mother may I and worry about the hurt feelings of Congress
> 
> FDR stepped to the plate and dared them......Try and stop me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despots have always relied on the weakness and fear of pawns like you.
Click to expand...



You may be correct, but I've usually attributed their rationalizations to envy and jealousy.

 1. The desire for equality of income or of wealth is, of course, but one aspect of a more general desire for equality. “The essence of the moral idea of socialism is that human equality is the supreme value in life.” Martin Malia, “A Fatal Logic,” The National Interest, Spring 1993,  pp. 80, 87


2. Since one cannot see any objective harm done to the less wealthy by another’s greater wealth, the explanation for the ‘economic equality imperative’ can only be envy. The resentment of luxury in another is evil, in that there is no benefit to depriving others with no gain to ourselves. What is the satisfaction of seeing the better off lessened.


  a. President Clinton proposed raising taxes on the rich, even though it didn’t appear that it would increase tax revenues. A sizable portion of the public agreed, even under these circumstances. The motive can only be envy.


3. Sociologist Helmut Schoeck’s observation: “Since the end of the Second World War, however, a new ‘ethic’ has come into being, according to which the envious man is perfectly acceptable. Progressively fewer individuals and groups are ashamed of their envy, but instead make out that its existence in their temperaments axiomatically proves the existence of ‘social injustice,’ which must be eliminated for their benefit.” Helmut Schoeck, “Envy: A Theory of Social Behavior,” p. 179


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate times called for desperate measures
> 
> The Great Depression and WWII. Two cataclysmic events. Not time to play mother may I and worry about the hurt feelings of Congress
> 
> FDR stepped to the plate and dared them......Try and stop me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despots have always relied on the weakness and fear of pawns like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Despots are not elected four times
Click to expand...




In America, the definition of 'despot' would be bound to disrespect for the United States Constitution.
Hence....a despot was elected four time.


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate times called for desperate measures
> 
> The Great Depression and WWII. Two cataclysmic events. Not time to play mother may I and worry about the hurt feelings of Congress
> 
> FDR stepped to the plate and dared them......Try and stop me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despots have always relied on the weakness and fear of pawns like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Despots are not elected four times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In America, the definition of 'despot' would be bound to disrespect for the United States Constitution.
> Hence....a despot was elected four time.
Click to expand...


Here's a dime....







Tell us what you really think


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate times called for desperate measures
> 
> The Great Depression and WWII. Two cataclysmic events. Not time to play mother may I and worry about the hurt feelings of Congress
> 
> FDR stepped to the plate and dared them......Try and stop me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despots have always relied on the weakness and fear of pawns like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Despots are not elected four times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In America, the definition of 'despot' would be bound to disrespect for the United States Constitution.
> Hence....a despot was elected four time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's a dime....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us what you really think
Click to expand...




The dime celebrates infantile paralysis, better known as polio.

What's your point?


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate times called for desperate measures
> 
> The Great Depression and WWII. Two cataclysmic events. Not time to play mother may I and worry about the hurt feelings of Congress
> 
> FDR stepped to the plate and dared them......Try and stop me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despots have always relied on the weakness and fear of pawns like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Despots are not elected four times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In America, the definition of 'despot' would be bound to disrespect for the United States Constitution.
> Hence....a despot was elected four time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's a dime....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell us what you really think
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The dime celebrates infantile paralysis, better known as polio.
> 
> What's your point?
Click to expand...


The greatness of FDR


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is that your favorite response or the easiest? In any case are you suggesting that loyalty oaths were FDR's reason for the internment camps?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Civil liberties were given up during WWII. Also a surprising fact, to me at least, was to find out that although FDR and Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren favored the internment of Japanese Americans, one of the most significant conservative figures of that time and for some time in the future was against it, and that man was John Edgar Hoover. We also learn that all the things that Nixon was accused of doing during the Watergate scandal, FDR and his cronies had done to a greater extent about 30 years earlier and to a greater degree."
> 
> 2. "The internment of 110,000 Japanese seems to have been largely political. Earl Warren of California was sensitive to his constituents resenting the large success of the Japanese in agriculture. And, interned, they couldn’t vote against FDR, and he did pick up three House seats…and after the election he began to move for the release of the Japanese.:
> _"FDR Goes To War: How Expanded Executive Power, Spiraling National Debt, And Restricted Civil Liberties Shaped Wartime America," _by Burton W. Folsom Jr. and Anita Folsom
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Revisionist history is great isn't it?
> You get to look at decisions from 75, 150, 200 years ago and condemn them as inappropriate
> 
> Washington and Jefferson owned slaves
> Lincoln did not agree with the equality of blacks or women
> FDR interred Japanese citizens
> 
> Guess there were no great American Presidents
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Guess there were no great American Presidents."
> 
> The one who reversed Roosevelt's support for Soviet Communism....the great Ronaldus Maximus.
> 
> He also revered FDR's Depression with a 'golden age' of domestic economics.
> 
> You should read about that....
> ...er, have someone read it to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Cold War was developed under Truman and Eisenhower. No one can possibly know how FDR would have handled Stalin and the USSR when WWll ended. FDR had died. He was dead.
> The USSR fell after Reagan left office. Historians record that Reagan was one of the several figures that helped bring about the fall. Many argue that the Pope had far more influence than Reagan. FDR smashed Japan and Germany into unconditional surrenders, America still faces the remnants of the USSR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " No one can possibly know how FDR would have handled Stalin..."
> 
> 
> For clarity....are you truly this stupid...or simply a boilerplate-Liberal-liar?
> 
> 
> RSVP
Click to expand...

There is no reason not to believe FDR would have handled Stalin and the USSR any less successfully than he handled the Great Depression and the defeat of Germany, Italy and Japan. Of course, dopes like you insist he did a poor job at resolving those situations even though the vast majority of scholars and economic and war history experts consider his positions and leadership as visionary and even genius, Your ego and ability to know the unknown may fool some into disagreeing with the experts and scholars and agree with your silly anti-New Deal/FDR obsessions.


----------



## rightwinger

Greatest of all time


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate times called for desperate measures
> 
> The Great Depression and WWII. Two cataclysmic events. Not time to play mother may I and worry about the hurt feelings of Congress
> 
> FDR stepped to the plate and dared them......Try and stop me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despots have always relied on the weakness and fear of pawns like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Despots are not elected four times
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In America, the definition of 'despot' would be bound to disrespect for the United States Constitution.
> Hence....a despot was elected four time.
Click to expand...

You are claiming that what America calls the Greatest Generation were in your opinion, stupid fools because of who the chose to lead them through the crisis's of the era. You think the voters should have chosen those who ran against him, hence, you are claiming to be better educated and informed and have greater judgement ability that the Greatest Generation.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. "Civil liberties were given up during WWII. Also a surprising fact, to me at least, was to find out that although FDR and Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren favored the internment of Japanese Americans, one of the most significant conservative figures of that time and for some time in the future was against it, and that man was John Edgar Hoover. We also learn that all the things that Nixon was accused of doing during the Watergate scandal, FDR and his cronies had done to a greater extent about 30 years earlier and to a greater degree."
> 
> 2. "The internment of 110,000 Japanese seems to have been largely political. Earl Warren of California was sensitive to his constituents resenting the large success of the Japanese in agriculture. And, interned, they couldn’t vote against FDR, and he did pick up three House seats…and after the election he began to move for the release of the Japanese.:
> _"FDR Goes To War: How Expanded Executive Power, Spiraling National Debt, And Restricted Civil Liberties Shaped Wartime America," _by Burton W. Folsom Jr. and Anita Folsom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Revisionist history is great isn't it?
> You get to look at decisions from 75, 150, 200 years ago and condemn them as inappropriate
> 
> Washington and Jefferson owned slaves
> Lincoln did not agree with the equality of blacks or women
> FDR interred Japanese citizens
> 
> Guess there were no great American Presidents
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Guess there were no great American Presidents."
> 
> The one who reversed Roosevelt's support for Soviet Communism....the great Ronaldus Maximus.
> 
> He also revered FDR's Depression with a 'golden age' of domestic economics.
> 
> You should read about that....
> ...er, have someone read it to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Cold War was developed under Truman and Eisenhower. No one can possibly know how FDR would have handled Stalin and the USSR when WWll ended. FDR had died. He was dead.
> The USSR fell after Reagan left office. Historians record that Reagan was one of the several figures that helped bring about the fall. Many argue that the Pope had far more influence than Reagan. FDR smashed Japan and Germany into unconditional surrenders, America still faces the remnants of the USSR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " No one can possibly know how FDR would have handled Stalin..."
> 
> 
> For clarity....are you truly this stupid...or simply a boilerplate-Liberal-liar?
> 
> 
> RSVP
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no reason not to believe FDR would have handled Stalin and the USSR any less successfully than he handled the Great Depression and the defeat of Germany, Italy and Japan. Of course, dopes like you insist he did a poor job at resolving those situations even though the vast majority of scholars and economic and war history experts consider his positions and leadership as visionary and even genius, Your ego and ability to know the unknown may fool some into disagreeing with the experts and scholars and agree with your silly anti-New Deal/FDR obsessions.
Click to expand...



"no reason" should be your avi.

FDR was the best friend Stalin and Soviet Communism had in the world!



But...."...There is no reason not to believe FDR would have handled Stalin and the USSR any less successfully than he handled the Great Depression..."

That's true.....he sure messed that up, too.


My ego???
When mentioning my ego, or my scholarship....the term 'infinity' comes to mind.


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> Greatest of all time





You're embarrassing yourself, and your local library, as well.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
Click to expand...

By vile animals...WTF are you talking about?  Are you STILL so easily duped by the State that you would refer to the Japanese with such absurd names?  Do you fail to see you are completely propagandized by the State?

It amazes me that Americans can still think as you do.  Sad.  Very sad.


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greatest of all time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're embarrassing yourself, and your local library, as well.
Click to expand...


Library?  Who needs a library?

You can't cut and paste at a library can you PC?


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greatest of all time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're embarrassing yourself, and your local library, as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Library?  Who needs a library?
> 
> You can't cut and paste at a library can you PC?
Click to expand...

Well it is apparent you have no need for a library...since you can't fix stupid.


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Greatest of all time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're embarrassing yourself, and your local library, as well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Library?  Who needs a library?
> 
> You can't cut and paste at a library can you PC?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well it is apparent you have no need for a library...since you can't fix stupid.
Click to expand...


Don't need no Libery

Got the Interweb


----------



## Camp

Who was it t


gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By vile animals...WTF are you talking about?  Are you STILL so easily duped by the State that you would refer to the Japanese with such absurd names?  Do you fail to see you are completely propagandized by the State?
> 
> It amazes me that Americans can still think as you do.  Sad.  Very sad.
Click to expand...

I knew a guy from the Bataan Death March, read a book called Unit 731 and have been a student of how the Japanese treated both captured civilians and military. A little knowledge about the Rape of Nanking and the kidnapping of all those girls from Korea for Jap soldiers to rape on a regular basis is influential in forming an opinion also.


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
Click to expand...









Were the US CITIZENS thrown into fdr's concentration camps "horrible people"?


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate times called for desperate measures
> 
> The Great Depression and WWII. Two cataclysmic events. Not time to play mother may I and worry about the hurt feelings of Congress
> 
> FDR stepped to the plate and dared them......Try and stop me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despots have always relied on the weakness and fear of pawns like you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Despots are not elected four times
Click to expand...







Yes they are, you ignorant fool.


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were the US CITIZENS thrown into fdr's concentration camps "horrible people"?
Click to expand...


Nope...victims of war

Suspected insurgents were imprisoned in every country during WWII. We were no different


----------



## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were the US CITIZENS thrown into fdr's concentration camps "horrible people"?
Click to expand...

No, they were victims of a frightened population and corrupt California politicians, but FDR signed the EO that put them into the camps so he gets the blame. Thankfully they were not routinely murdered, tortured, beheaded or used for medical experiments the way Americans and westerners were subjected to by the Japanese in government-operated prisons and programs.


----------



## rightwinger

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were the US CITIZENS thrown into fdr's concentration camps "horrible people"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, they were victims of a frightened population and corrupt California politicians, but FDR signed the EO that put them into the camps so he gets the blame. Thankfully they were not routinely murdered, tortured, beheaded or used for medical experiments the way Americans and westerners were subjected to by the Japanese in government-operated prisons and programs.
Click to expand...


It was a horrible thing to do

But given the post Pearl Harbor hysteria and anti-Japanese propaganda of the time it is understandable. FDR never should have signed it, Congress never should have agreed with it and the Supreme Court should have stood up for individual liberty

But it was 1942....nobody was going to stand up for the Japanese


----------



## regent

Kosh said:


> 1. Lied the US into WWII
> 2. Attacked a Country that did not attack the US..
> 3. Rounded up Americans and gave them loyalty tests.
> 4. Built the military industrial complex that the far left wants to dismantle.
> 5. Created the Welfare Society that was supposed to be temporary..
> 7. Started social security and sold to the American people as temporary.
> 8. Reinstated the income tax to pay for the war which was supposed to be temporary.
> 9. Tried to replace judges that were against is socialist/communist bills..
> 10. Had a privileged childhood.
> 11. Tried to increase the size of the Supreme Court.
> 12. One of the top racist presidents of all time..
> 
> etc...


Some more mistakes by FDR
FDR allowed the American people to elect him four times.
FDR allowed Ronald Reagan to vote for him.
FDR followed other administrations examples in adjusting the size of the Supreme Court.
FDR was weak when it came to children going hungry.
FDR was a traitor to his class.
FDR put Republicans in his cabinet.
FDR seemed to believe that poor people were as good as rich people
FDR allowed his wife to help black Americans
FDR allowed more Russians to be killed in WWII than Americans.
FDR allowed labor to organize like other groups.

The list of FDR mistakes is probably endless.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> Who was it t
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By vile animals...WTF are you talking about?  Are you STILL so easily duped by the State that you would refer to the Japanese with such absurd names?  Do you fail to see you are completely propagandized by the State?
> 
> It amazes me that Americans can still think as you do.  Sad.  Very sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew a guy from the Bataan Death March, read a book called Unit 731 and have been a student of how the Japanese treated both captured civilians and military. A little knowledge about the Rape of Nanking and the kidnapping of all those girls from Korea for Jap soldiers to rape on a regular basis is influential in forming an opinion also.
Click to expand...

Must you always be a statist dupe?

You condemned an entire nation of people as vile animals.  Yes, the Japanese military committed terrible atrocities, but you condemn all Japanese people.  Do you think the US did not commit terrible atrocities?

Do you not see the horrific bombings of Japan by the US military as vile?  The cold blooded mass murder of thousands of innocent Japanese by those bombings, can't be justified...unless you are a vile animal.


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was it t
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By vile animals...WTF are you talking about?  Are you STILL so easily duped by the State that you would refer to the Japanese with such absurd names?  Do you fail to see you are completely propagandized by the State?
> 
> It amazes me that Americans can still think as you do.  Sad.  Very sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew a guy from the Bataan Death March, read a book called Unit 731 and have been a student of how the Japanese treated both captured civilians and military. A little knowledge about the Rape of Nanking and the kidnapping of all those girls from Korea for Jap soldiers to rape on a regular basis is influential in forming an opinion also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must you always be a statist dupe?
> 
> You condemned an entire nation of people as vile animals.  Yes, the Japanese military committed terrible atrocities, but you condemn all Japanese people.  Do you think the US did not commit terrible atrocities?
> 
> Do you not see the horrific bombings of Japan by the US military as vile?  The cold blooded mass murder of thousands of innocent Japanese by those bombings, can't be justified...unless you are a vile animal.
Click to expand...

I did not condemn an entire race of people. I responded to foul criticism of action taken by America during WWII towards Japanese citizens. My response was in regards to the activities of Japanese during that same era. No, a person doesn't get to demonize Americans and disregard the vile offences committed against them during the same period. If people are going to dish out criticism about Americans they should be willing to confront the truth. Japan to this very day denies what it did during WWll. Every opportunity to reveal the misdeeds of Japan should be taken.


----------



## rightwinger

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was it t
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By vile animals...WTF are you talking about?  Are you STILL so easily duped by the State that you would refer to the Japanese with such absurd names?  Do you fail to see you are completely propagandized by the State?
> 
> It amazes me that Americans can still think as you do.  Sad.  Very sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew a guy from the Bataan Death March, read a book called Unit 731 and have been a student of how the Japanese treated both captured civilians and military. A little knowledge about the Rape of Nanking and the kidnapping of all those girls from Korea for Jap soldiers to rape on a regular basis is influential in forming an opinion also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must you always be a statist dupe?
> 
> You condemned an entire nation of people as vile animals.  Yes, the Japanese military committed terrible atrocities, but you condemn all Japanese people.  Do you think the US did not commit terrible atrocities?
> 
> Do you not see the horrific bombings of Japan by the US military as vile?  The cold blooded mass murder of thousands of innocent Japanese by those bombings, can't be justified...unless you are a vile animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not condemn an entire race of people. I responded to foul criticism of action taken by America during WWII towards Japanese citizens. My response was in regards to the activities of Japanese during that same era. No, a person doesn't get to demonize Americans and disregard the vile offences committed against them during the same period. If people are going to dish out criticism about Americans they should be willing to confront the truth. Japan to this very day denies what it did during WWll. Every opportunity to reveal the misdeeds of Japan should be taken.
Click to expand...


WWII was a war sold as a battle of good against evil

The Japs and Nazis were sold as pure evil. They were sneaky, dangerous, untrustworthy

How could you not lock them up?


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was it t
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By vile animals...WTF are you talking about?  Are you STILL so easily duped by the State that you would refer to the Japanese with such absurd names?  Do you fail to see you are completely propagandized by the State?
> 
> It amazes me that Americans can still think as you do.  Sad.  Very sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew a guy from the Bataan Death March, read a book called Unit 731 and have been a student of how the Japanese treated both captured civilians and military. A little knowledge about the Rape of Nanking and the kidnapping of all those girls from Korea for Jap soldiers to rape on a regular basis is influential in forming an opinion also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must you always be a statist dupe?
> 
> You condemned an entire nation of people as vile animals.  Yes, the Japanese military committed terrible atrocities, but you condemn all Japanese people.  Do you think the US did not commit terrible atrocities?
> 
> Do you not see the horrific bombings of Japan by the US military as vile?  The cold blooded mass murder of thousands of innocent Japanese by those bombings, can't be justified...unless you are a vile animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not condemn an entire race of people. I responded to foul criticism of action taken by America during WWII towards Japanese citizens. My response was in regards to the activities of Japanese during that same era. No, a person doesn't get to demonize Americans and disregard the vile offences committed against them during the same period. If people are going to dish out criticism about Americans they should be willing to confront the truth. Japan to this very day denies what it did during WWll. Every opportunity to reveal the misdeeds of Japan should be taken.
Click to expand...

You most certainly did condemn all Japanese.  Your words:
_The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings.._

If you meant to attack only the Japanese military, even that is absurd.  You think all those young men conscripted by that terrible dictatorial regime, were vile animals.  I think not.  

Atrocities were committed by both regimes.  You are the one condemning Japan, but failing to see that the US also committed EQUALLY, if not worst, atrocities by incinerating innocent Japanese with those terrible bombings.


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was it t
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> 
> 
> By vile animals...WTF are you talking about?  Are you STILL so easily duped by the State that you would refer to the Japanese with such absurd names?  Do you fail to see you are completely propagandized by the State?
> 
> It amazes me that Americans can still think as you do.  Sad.  Very sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew a guy from the Bataan Death March, read a book called Unit 731 and have been a student of how the Japanese treated both captured civilians and military. A little knowledge about the Rape of Nanking and the kidnapping of all those girls from Korea for Jap soldiers to rape on a regular basis is influential in forming an opinion also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must you always be a statist dupe?
> 
> You condemned an entire nation of people as vile animals.  Yes, the Japanese military committed terrible atrocities, but you condemn all Japanese people.  Do you think the US did not commit terrible atrocities?
> 
> Do you not see the horrific bombings of Japan by the US military as vile?  The cold blooded mass murder of thousands of innocent Japanese by those bombings, can't be justified...unless you are a vile animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not condemn an entire race of people. I responded to foul criticism of action taken by America during WWII towards Japanese citizens. My response was in regards to the activities of Japanese during that same era. No, a person doesn't get to demonize Americans and disregard the vile offences committed against them during the same period. If people are going to dish out criticism about Americans they should be willing to confront the truth. Japan to this very day denies what it did during WWll. Every opportunity to reveal the misdeeds of Japan should be taken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You most certainly did condemn all Japanese.  Your words:
> _The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings.._
> 
> If you meant to attack only the Japanese military, even that is absurd.  You think all those young men conscripted by that terrible dictatorial regime, were vile animals.  I think not.
> 
> Atrocities were committed by both regimes.  You are the one condemning Japan, but failing to see that the US also committed EQUALLY, if not worst, atrocities by incinerating innocent Japanese with those terrible bombings.
Click to expand...


No way the atrocities were anywhere near equal. Atrocities were institutionalized by Japan. Show us where Japanese civilian and military personnel were beheaded, murdered, raped, etc. with government encouragement and approval.


----------



## rightwinger

Great American


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover




 I noticed you left out Woodrow Wilson, that signed off on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that has basically enslaved us since it's inception and how he signed on Americans for WWI which was a total bullshit war designed to get us into debt to the very banking oligarchs that financed his campaign...must have just been an oversight on your part, no?

 FDR was no prize either. He knew that the very same banking oligarchs that brought in Wilson to sign off on the Federal Reserve Act were the same ones that were behind the orchestrated market crash of 1929 that lead to the Depression and he did nothing about it....you know, the kind of Depression the people were told that a central bank would prevent?
But wait, there is more....FDR made the people turn in their gold (which is real money) in exchange for Federal Reserve Notes and made it illegal for an American to possess gold bullion that was later turned over to the Fed bankers for (snicker) "safe keeping". On March 9, 1933, House Joint Resolution No. 192-10 was voted into law, which is the Emergency Banking Act. The "Emergency Banking Act" succeeded in doing away with the gold standard and all property as well as our labor were pledged as a "surety"on the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC that FDR could have stopped had he simply had the Treasury print our own currency as it is written in the organic Constitution instead of the one written in 1871 and he could have done that had he not been so spineless....but wait! There's more!!! All sovereign Americans residing within USA.INC suddenly and falsely were expatriated from their sovereign American status without their knowledge or consent and their labor, children, property, sweat equity and credit became the financial collateral for the public debt which had then been converted into a public trust and that was accomplished with the "birth certificate" requirement....up until that time, there was no such thing but using Admiralty law and the Universal Commercial Code? We became surety on the debt and they monetized our birth certificate and using actuarial tables based on what you will pay in taxes, commerce produced and "gubermint" fees for violating their acts, statutes and codes ( all designed to bring in revenue) over your lifetime? They come up with an amount to start with but it changes over the course of your lifetime...could go up or down...just depends on how hard you work for the legal tender..... and your beloved "gubermint" borrows against what you will produce...get it now? You are just a mule and when it comes to "retiring that mule" and unless you have squirreled away enough nuts ( i.e Federal Reserve notes that lose value every year)...you will get a mere pittance of the "benefits" that you were promised when you agreed to become a "U.S citizen" pledging loyalty and your labor to the corporation that is USA.INC that granted you "privileges" while taking away your God given rights..... unless you are smart enough to reclaim them like I have.

That is what FDR did for us.....what a guy!

.


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed you left out Woodrow Wilson, that signed off on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that has basically enslaved us since it's inception and how he signed on Americans for WWI which was a total bullshit war designed to get us into debt to the very banking oligarchs that financed his campaign...must have just been an oversight on your part, no?
> 
> FDR was no prize either. He knew that the very same banking oligarchs that brought in Wilson to sign off on the Federal Reserve Act were the same ones that were behind the orchestrated market crash of 1929 that lead to the Depression and he did nothing about it....you know, the kind of Depression the people were told that a central bank would prevent?
> But wait, there is more....FDR made the people turn in their gold (which is real money) in exchange for Federal Reserve Notes and made it illegal for an American to possess gold bullion that was later turned over to the Fed bankers for (snicker) "safe keeping". On March 9, 1933, House Joint Resolution No. 192-10 was voted into law, which is the Emergency Banking Act. The "Emergency Banking Act" succeeded in doing away with the gold standard and all property as well as our labor were pledged as a "surety"on the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC that FDR could have stopped had he simply had the Treasury print our own currency as it is written in the organic Constitution instead of the one written in 1871 and he could have done that had he not been so spineless....but wait! There's more!!! All sovereign Americans residing within USA.INC suddenly and falsely were expatriated from their sovereign American status without their knowledge or consent and their labor, children, property, sweat equity and credit became the financial collateral for the public debt which had then been converted into a public trust and that was accomplished with the "birth certificate" requirement....up until that time, there was no such thing but using Admiralty law and the Universal Commercial Code? We became surety on the debt and they monetized our birth certificate and using actuarial tables based on what you will pay in taxes, commerce produced and "gubermint" fees for violating their acts, statutes and codes ( all designed to bring in revenue) over your lifetime? They come up with an amount to start with but it changes over the course of your lifetime...could go up or down...just depends on how hard you work for the legal tender..... and your beloved "gubermint" borrows against what you will produce...get it now? You are just a mule and when it comes to "retiring that mule" and unless you have squirreled away enough nuts ( i.e Federal Reserve notes that lose value every year)...you will get a mere pittance of the "benefits" that you were promised when you agreed to become a "U.S citizen" pledging loyalty and your labor to the corporation that is USA.INC that granted you "privileges" while taking away your God given rights..... unless you are smart enough to reclaim them like I have.
> 
> That is what FDR did for us.....what a guy!
> 
> .
Click to expand...

word salad


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed you left out Woodrow Wilson, that signed off on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that has basically enslaved us since it's inception and how he signed on Americans for WWI which was a total bullshit war designed to get us into debt to the very banking oligarchs that financed his campaign...must have just been an oversight on your part, no?
> 
> FDR was no prize either. He knew that the very same banking oligarchs that brought in Wilson to sign off on the Federal Reserve Act were the same ones that were behind the orchestrated market crash of 1929 that lead to the Depression and he did nothing about it....you know, the kind of Depression the people were told that a central bank would prevent?
> But wait, there is more....FDR made the people turn in their gold (which is real money) in exchange for Federal Reserve Notes and made it illegal for an American to possess gold bullion that was later turned over to the Fed bankers for (snicker) "safe keeping". On March 9, 1933, House Joint Resolution No. 192-10 was voted into law, which is the Emergency Banking Act. The "Emergency Banking Act" succeeded in doing away with the gold standard and all property as well as our labor were pledged as a "surety"on the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC that FDR could have stopped had he simply had the Treasury print our own currency as it is written in the organic Constitution instead of the one written in 1871 and he could have done that had he not been so spineless....but wait! There's more!!! All sovereign Americans residing within USA.INC suddenly and falsely were expatriated from their sovereign American status without their knowledge or consent and their labor, children, property, sweat equity and credit became the financial collateral for the public debt which had then been converted into a public trust and that was accomplished with the "birth certificate" requirement....up until that time, there was no such thing but using Admiralty law and the Universal Commercial Code? We became surety on the debt and they monetized our birth certificate and using actuarial tables based on what you will pay in taxes, commerce produced and "gubermint" fees for violating their acts, statutes and codes ( all designed to bring in revenue) over your lifetime? They come up with an amount to start with but it changes over the course of your lifetime...could go up or down...just depends on how hard you work for the legal tender..... and your beloved "gubermint" borrows against what you will produce...get it now? You are just a mule and when it comes to "retiring that mule" and unless you have squirreled away enough nuts ( i.e Federal Reserve notes that lose value every year)...you will get a mere pittance of the "benefits" that you were promised when you agreed to become a "U.S citizen" pledging loyalty and your labor to the corporation that is USA.INC that granted you "privileges" while taking away your God given rights..... unless you are smart enough to reclaim them like I have.
> 
> That is what FDR did for us.....what a guy!
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> word salad
Click to expand...


What I did was post things that your teeny, tiny mind cannot understand or even comprehend because you lack the intellectual properties to digest it. Hope this helps!!!!


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed you left out Woodrow Wilson, that signed off on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that has basically enslaved us since it's inception and how he signed on Americans for WWI which was a total bullshit war designed to get us into debt to the very banking oligarchs that financed his campaign...must have just been an oversight on your part, no?
> 
> FDR was no prize either. He knew that the very same banking oligarchs that brought in Wilson to sign off on the Federal Reserve Act were the same ones that were behind the orchestrated market crash of 1929 that lead to the Depression and he did nothing about it....you know, the kind of Depression the people were told that a central bank would prevent?
> But wait, there is more....FDR made the people turn in their gold (which is real money) in exchange for Federal Reserve Notes and made it illegal for an American to possess gold bullion that was later turned over to the Fed bankers for (snicker) "safe keeping". On March 9, 1933, House Joint Resolution No. 192-10 was voted into law, which is the Emergency Banking Act. The "Emergency Banking Act" succeeded in doing away with the gold standard and all property as well as our labor were pledged as a "surety"on the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC that FDR could have stopped had he simply had the Treasury print our own currency as it is written in the organic Constitution instead of the one written in 1871 and he could have done that had he not been so spineless....but wait! There's more!!! All sovereign Americans residing within USA.INC suddenly and falsely were expatriated from their sovereign American status without their knowledge or consent and their labor, children, property, sweat equity and credit became the financial collateral for the public debt which had then been converted into a public trust and that was accomplished with the "birth certificate" requirement....up until that time, there was no such thing but using Admiralty law and the Universal Commercial Code? We became surety on the debt and they monetized our birth certificate and using actuarial tables based on what you will pay in taxes, commerce produced and "gubermint" fees for violating their acts, statutes and codes ( all designed to bring in revenue) over your lifetime? They come up with an amount to start with but it changes over the course of your lifetime...could go up or down...just depends on how hard you work for the legal tender..... and your beloved "gubermint" borrows against what you will produce...get it now? You are just a mule and when it comes to "retiring that mule" and unless you have squirreled away enough nuts ( i.e Federal Reserve notes that lose value every year)...you will get a mere pittance of the "benefits" that you were promised when you agreed to become a "U.S citizen" pledging loyalty and your labor to the corporation that is USA.INC that granted you "privileges" while taking away your God given rights..... unless you are smart enough to reclaim them like I have.
> 
> That is what FDR did for us.....what a guy!
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> word salad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I did was post things that your teeny, tiny mind cannot understand or even comprehend because you lack the intellectual properties to digest it. Hope this helps!!!!
Click to expand...


Learn how to use paragraphs and maybe I'll read your nonsense


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were the US CITIZENS thrown into fdr's concentration camps "horrible people"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope...victims of war
Click to expand...




Victims of that fucking scumbag fdr. He was a REAL enemy of America. And you are a shameless fucking apologist.


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was it t
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By vile animals...WTF are you talking about?  Are you STILL so easily duped by the State that you would refer to the Japanese with such absurd names?  Do you fail to see you are completely propagandized by the State?
> 
> It amazes me that Americans can still think as you do.  Sad.  Very sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew a guy from the Bataan Death March, read a book called Unit 731 and have been a student of how the Japanese treated both captured civilians and military. A little knowledge about the Rape of Nanking and the kidnapping of all those girls from Korea for Jap soldiers to rape on a regular basis is influential in forming an opinion also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must you always be a statist dupe?
> 
> You condemned an entire nation of people as vile animals.  Yes, the Japanese military committed terrible atrocities, but you condemn all Japanese people.  Do you think the US did not commit terrible atrocities?
> 
> Do you not see the horrific bombings of Japan by the US military as vile?  The cold blooded mass murder of thousands of innocent Japanese by those bombings, can't be justified...unless you are a vile animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not condemn an entire race of people. I responded to foul criticism of action taken by America during WWII towards Japanese citizens. My response was in regards to the activities of Japanese during that same era. No, a person doesn't get to demonize Americans and disregard the vile offences committed against them during the same period. If people are going to dish out criticism about Americans they should be willing to confront the truth. Japan to this very day denies what it did during .
Click to expand...



Not so.


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed you left out Woodrow Wilson, that signed off on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that has basically enslaved us since it's inception and how he signed on Americans for WWI which was a total bullshit war designed to get us into debt to the very banking oligarchs that financed his campaign...must have just been an oversight on your part, no?
> 
> FDR was no prize either. He knew that the very same banking oligarchs that brought in Wilson to sign off on the Federal Reserve Act were the same ones that were behind the orchestrated market crash of 1929 that lead to the Depression and he did nothing about it....you know, the kind of Depression the people were told that a central bank would prevent?
> But wait, there is more....FDR made the people turn in their gold (which is real money) in exchange for Federal Reserve Notes and made it illegal for an American to possess gold bullion that was later turned over to the Fed bankers for (snicker) "safe keeping". On March 9, 1933, House Joint Resolution No. 192-10 was voted into law, which is the Emergency Banking Act. The "Emergency Banking Act" succeeded in doing away with the gold standard and all property as well as our labor were pledged as a "surety"on the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC that FDR could have stopped had he simply had the Treasury print our own currency as it is written in the organic Constitution instead of the one written in 1871 and he could have done that had he not been so spineless....but wait! There's more!!! All sovereign Americans residing within USA.INC suddenly and falsely were expatriated from their sovereign American status without their knowledge or consent and their labor, children, property, sweat equity and credit became the financial collateral for the public debt which had then been converted into a public trust and that was accomplished with the "birth certificate" requirement....up until that time, there was no such thing but using Admiralty law and the Universal Commercial Code? We became surety on the debt and they monetized our birth certificate and using actuarial tables based on what you will pay in taxes, commerce produced and "gubermint" fees for violating their acts, statutes and codes ( all designed to bring in revenue) over your lifetime? They come up with an amount to start with but it changes over the course of your lifetime...could go up or down...just depends on how hard you work for the legal tender..... and your beloved "gubermint" borrows against what you will produce...get it now? You are just a mule and when it comes to "retiring that mule" and unless you have squirreled away enough nuts ( i.e Federal Reserve notes that lose value every year)...you will get a mere pittance of the "benefits" that you were promised when you agreed to become a "U.S citizen" pledging loyalty and your labor to the corporation that is USA.INC that granted you "privileges" while taking away your God given rights..... unless you are smart enough to reclaim them like I have.
> 
> That is what FDR did for us.....what a guy!
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> word salad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I did was post things that your teeny, tiny mind cannot understand or even comprehend because you lack the intellectual properties to digest it. Hope this helps!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Learn how to use paragraphs and maybe I'll read your nonsense
Click to expand...



Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> That piece of shit fdr threatened our Constitution and very form of government. He was the only person to hold the office who so lusted for power that he scorned Washington's example and necessitated an amendment to guard against such potential tyranny in the future. He was personally odious, economically clueless and reckless, and downright sinister in his hatred and disregard for life and liberty. Our country was never in greater peril than when that selfish, dishonest, arrogant villain soiled our White House. Unsurprisingly, obama took him as a role model of arrogant incompetence and executive overreaching.
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Were the US CITIZENS thrown into fdr's concentration camps "horrible people"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nope...victims of war
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Victims of that fucking scumbag fdr. He was a REAL enemy of America. And you are a shameless fucking apologist.
Click to expand...


Nope


----------



## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed you left out Woodrow Wilson, that signed off on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that has basically enslaved us since it's inception and how he signed on Americans for WWI which was a total bullshit war designed to get us into debt to the very banking oligarchs that financed his campaign...must have just been an oversight on your part, no?
> 
> FDR was no prize either. He knew that the very same banking oligarchs that brought in Wilson to sign off on the Federal Reserve Act were the same ones that were behind the orchestrated market crash of 1929 that lead to the Depression and he did nothing about it....you know, the kind of Depression the people were told that a central bank would prevent?
> But wait, there is more....FDR made the people turn in their gold (which is real money) in exchange for Federal Reserve Notes and made it illegal for an American to possess gold bullion that was later turned over to the Fed bankers for (snicker) "safe keeping". On March 9, 1933, House Joint Resolution No. 192-10 was voted into law, which is the Emergency Banking Act. The "Emergency Banking Act" succeeded in doing away with the gold standard and all property as well as our labor were pledged as a "surety"on the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC that FDR could have stopped had he simply had the Treasury print our own currency as it is written in the organic Constitution instead of the one written in 1871 and he could have done that had he not been so spineless....but wait! There's more!!! All sovereign Americans residing within USA.INC suddenly and falsely were expatriated from their sovereign American status without their knowledge or consent and their labor, children, property, sweat equity and credit became the financial collateral for the public debt which had then been converted into a public trust and that was accomplished with the "birth certificate" requirement....up until that time, there was no such thing but using Admiralty law and the Universal Commercial Code? We became surety on the debt and they monetized our birth certificate and using actuarial tables based on what you will pay in taxes, commerce produced and "gubermint" fees for violating their acts, statutes and codes ( all designed to bring in revenue) over your lifetime? They come up with an amount to start with but it changes over the course of your lifetime...could go up or down...just depends on how hard you work for the legal tender..... and your beloved "gubermint" borrows against what you will produce...get it now? You are just a mule and when it comes to "retiring that mule" and unless you have squirreled away enough nuts ( i.e Federal Reserve notes that lose value every year)...you will get a mere pittance of the "benefits" that you were promised when you agreed to become a "U.S citizen" pledging loyalty and your labor to the corporation that is USA.INC that granted you "privileges" while taking away your God given rights..... unless you are smart enough to reclaim them like I have.
> 
> That is what FDR did for us.....what a guy!
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> word salad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I did was post things that your teeny, tiny mind cannot understand or even comprehend because you lack the intellectual properties to digest it. Hope this helps!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Learn how to use paragraphs and maybe I'll read your nonsense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)
Click to expand...


Paragraphs and starting fresh sentences are your friends


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was it t
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The US was attacked by genuine vile animals. The Japanese of that era were simply horrible human beings who prepared to annihilate America even if it took bio weapons they developed with their Unit 731 programs and delivered by balloon bombs. Those balloon bombs had been successfully tested using incendiary bombs, some of which reached the mid-west.
> The nation was never in greater peril than when it faced Japan and Germany in WWll, two nations with huge militaries and advanced technology. FDR was reelected over and over because the masses known as America's Greatest Generation believed he was the leader needed to defeat the enemies at the gate.
> 
> 
> 
> By vile animals...WTF are you talking about?  Are you STILL so easily duped by the State that you would refer to the Japanese with such absurd names?  Do you fail to see you are completely propagandized by the State?
> 
> It amazes me that Americans can still think as you do.  Sad.  Very sad.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I knew a guy from the Bataan Death March, read a book called Unit 731 and have been a student of how the Japanese treated both captured civilians and military. A little knowledge about the Rape of Nanking and the kidnapping of all those girls from Korea for Jap soldiers to rape on a regular basis is influential in forming an opinion also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must you always be a statist dupe?
> 
> You condemned an entire nation of people as vile animals.  Yes, the Japanese military committed terrible atrocities, but you condemn all Japanese people.  Do you think the US did not commit terrible atrocities?
> 
> Do you not see the horrific bombings of Japan by the US military as vile?  The cold blooded mass murder of thousands of innocent Japanese by those bombings, can't be justified...unless you are a vile animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not condemn an entire race of people. I responded to foul criticism of action taken by America during WWII towards Japanese citizens. My response was in regards to the activities of Japanese during that same era. No, a person doesn't get to demonize Americans and disregard the vile offences committed against them during the same period. If people are going to dish out criticism about Americans they should be willing to confront the truth. Japan to this very day denies what it did during WWll. Every opportunity to reveal the misdeeds of Japan should be taken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WWII was a war sold as a battle of good against evil
> 
> The Japs and Nazis were sold as pure evil. They were sneaky, dangerous, untrustworthy
> 
> How could you not lock them up?
Click to expand...












How could you not throw innocent, loyal Americans into concentration camps? Are you fucking insane? Do you really hate America that much?


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was it t
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> By vile animals...WTF are you talking about?  Are you STILL so easily duped by the State that you would refer to the Japanese with such absurd names?  Do you fail to see you are completely propagandized by the State?
> 
> It amazes me that Americans can still think as you do.  Sad.  Very sad.
> 
> 
> 
> I knew a guy from the Bataan Death March, read a book called Unit 731 and have been a student of how the Japanese treated both captured civilians and military. A little knowledge about the Rape of Nanking and the kidnapping of all those girls from Korea for Jap soldiers to rape on a regular basis is influential in forming an opinion also.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Must you always be a statist dupe?
> 
> You condemned an entire nation of people as vile animals.  Yes, the Japanese military committed terrible atrocities, but you condemn all Japanese people.  Do you think the US did not commit terrible atrocities?
> 
> Do you not see the horrific bombings of Japan by the US military as vile?  The cold blooded mass murder of thousands of innocent Japanese by those bombings, can't be justified...unless you are a vile animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not condemn an entire race of people. I responded to foul criticism of action taken by America during WWII towards Japanese citizens. My response was in regards to the activities of Japanese during that same era. No, a person doesn't get to demonize Americans and disregard the vile offences committed against them during the same period. If people are going to dish out criticism about Americans they should be willing to confront the truth. Japan to this very day denies what it did during WWll. Every opportunity to reveal the misdeeds of Japan should be taken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WWII was a war sold as a battle of good against evil
> 
> The Japs and Nazis were sold as pure evil. They were sneaky, dangerous, untrustworthy
> 
> How could you not lock them up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How could you not throw innocent, loyal Americans into concentration camps? Are you fucking insane? Do you really hate America that much?
Click to expand...


How could you?

Because you didn't consider them to be loyal innocent Americans


----------



## regent

Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.


----------



## regent

Billy_Kinetta said:


> One thing I find most interesting is the way modern-day Democrats give constitutional weight to FDR's "Four Freedoms".  While instrumental at the time in expressing viable American sentiments, it seems like nothing more today than an attempt to staple a little socialism onto the document without going through the amendment process.


Yep some similarity to Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed you left out Woodrow Wilson, that signed off on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that has basically enslaved us since it's inception and how he signed on Americans for WWI which was a total bullshit war designed to get us into debt to the very banking oligarchs that financed his campaign...must have just been an oversight on your part, no?
> 
> FDR was no prize either. He knew that the very same banking oligarchs that brought in Wilson to sign off on the Federal Reserve Act were the same ones that were behind the orchestrated market crash of 1929 that lead to the Depression and he did nothing about it....you know, the kind of Depression the people were told that a central bank would prevent?
> But wait, there is more....FDR made the people turn in their gold (which is real money) in exchange for Federal Reserve Notes and made it illegal for an American to possess gold bullion that was later turned over to the Fed bankers for (snicker) "safe keeping". On March 9, 1933, House Joint Resolution No. 192-10 was voted into law, which is the Emergency Banking Act. The "Emergency Banking Act" succeeded in doing away with the gold standard and all property as well as our labor were pledged as a "surety"on the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC that FDR could have stopped had he simply had the Treasury print our own currency as it is written in the organic Constitution instead of the one written in 1871 and he could have done that had he not been so spineless....but wait! There's more!!! All sovereign Americans residing within USA.INC suddenly and falsely were expatriated from their sovereign American status without their knowledge or consent and their labor, children, property, sweat equity and credit became the financial collateral for the public debt which had then been converted into a public trust and that was accomplished with the "birth certificate" requirement....up until that time, there was no such thing but using Admiralty law and the Universal Commercial Code? We became surety on the debt and they monetized our birth certificate and using actuarial tables based on what you will pay in taxes, commerce produced and "gubermint" fees for violating their acts, statutes and codes ( all designed to bring in revenue) over your lifetime? They come up with an amount to start with but it changes over the course of your lifetime...could go up or down...just depends on how hard you work for the legal tender..... and your beloved "gubermint" borrows against what you will produce...get it now? You are just a mule and when it comes to "retiring that mule" and unless you have squirreled away enough nuts ( i.e Federal Reserve notes that lose value every year)...you will get a mere pittance of the "benefits" that you were promised when you agreed to become a "U.S citizen" pledging loyalty and your labor to the corporation that is USA.INC that granted you "privileges" while taking away your God given rights..... unless you are smart enough to reclaim them like I have.
> 
> That is what FDR did for us.....what a guy!
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> word salad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I did was post things that your teeny, tiny mind cannot understand or even comprehend because you lack the intellectual properties to digest it. Hope this helps!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Learn how to use paragraphs and maybe I'll read your nonsense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)
Click to expand...

You must have lots of Birchers who visit your facebook page. Do you think you are original with that nonsense you post? Show some evidence and links to that garbage that isn't linked to the radical right wing. See if you can find an objective or academic source that will agree with your rant.


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who was it t
> I knew a guy from the Bataan Death March, read a book called Unit 731 and have been a student of how the Japanese treated both captured civilians and military. A little knowledge about the Rape of Nanking and the kidnapping of all those girls from Korea for Jap soldiers to rape on a regular basis is influential in forming an opinion also.
> 
> 
> 
> Must you always be a statist dupe?
> 
> You condemned an entire nation of people as vile animals.  Yes, the Japanese military committed terrible atrocities, but you condemn all Japanese people.  Do you think the US did not commit terrible atrocities?
> 
> Do you not see the horrific bombings of Japan by the US military as vile?  The cold blooded mass murder of thousands of innocent Japanese by those bombings, can't be justified...unless you are a vile animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not condemn an entire race of people. I responded to foul criticism of action taken by America during WWII towards Japanese citizens. My response was in regards to the activities of Japanese during that same era. No, a person doesn't get to demonize Americans and disregard the vile offences committed against them during the same period. If people are going to dish out criticism about Americans they should be willing to confront the truth. Japan to this very day denies what it did during WWll. Every opportunity to reveal the misdeeds of Japan should be taken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WWII was a war sold as a battle of good against evil
> 
> The Japs and Nazis were sold as pure evil. They were sneaky, dangerous, untrustworthy
> 
> How could you not lock them up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How could you not throw innocent, loyal Americans into concentration camps? Are you fucking insane? Do you really hate America that much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How could you?
> 
> Because you didn't consider them to be loyal innocent Americans
Click to expand...



Because that scumbag fdr was a racist POS, just as you apparently are. Turns out the victims of fdr's concentration camps were more than just loyal.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. .....




There _was_ sabotage and espionage  -  by German Americans. That must be why all Americans of German ancestry on the East Coast were rounded up and thrown into concentration camps too. Oh, wait...


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## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
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> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
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> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Must you always be a statist dupe?
> 
> You condemned an entire nation of people as vile animals.  Yes, the Japanese military committed terrible atrocities, but you condemn all Japanese people.  Do you think the US did not commit terrible atrocities?
> 
> Do you not see the horrific bombings of Japan by the US military as vile?  The cold blooded mass murder of thousands of innocent Japanese by those bombings, can't be justified...unless you are a vile animal.
> 
> 
> 
> I did not condemn an entire race of people. I responded to foul criticism of action taken by America during WWII towards Japanese citizens. My response was in regards to the activities of Japanese during that same era. No, a person doesn't get to demonize Americans and disregard the vile offences committed against them during the same period. If people are going to dish out criticism about Americans they should be willing to confront the truth. Japan to this very day denies what it did during WWll. Every opportunity to reveal the misdeeds of Japan should be taken.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WWII was a war sold as a battle of good against evil
> 
> The Japs and Nazis were sold as pure evil. They were sneaky, dangerous, untrustworthy
> 
> How could you not lock them up?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> How could you not throw innocent, loyal Americans into concentration camps? Are you fucking insane? Do you really hate America that much?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How could you?
> 
> Because you didn't consider them to be loyal innocent Americans
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Because that scumbag fdr was a racist POS, just as you apparently are. Turns out the victims of fdr's concentration camps were more than just loyal.
Click to expand...

Of course he was racist and sexist and homophobic

It was 1942


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## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed you left out Woodrow Wilson, that signed off on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that has basically enslaved us since it's inception and how he signed on Americans for WWI which was a total bullshit war designed to get us into debt to the very banking oligarchs that financed his campaign...must have just been an oversight on your part, no?
> 
> FDR was no prize either. He knew that the very same banking oligarchs that brought in Wilson to sign off on the Federal Reserve Act were the same ones that were behind the orchestrated market crash of 1929 that lead to the Depression and he did nothing about it....you know, the kind of Depression the people were told that a central bank would prevent?
> But wait, there is more....FDR made the people turn in their gold (which is real money) in exchange for Federal Reserve Notes and made it illegal for an American to possess gold bullion that was later turned over to the Fed bankers for (snicker) "safe keeping". On March 9, 1933, House Joint Resolution No. 192-10 was voted into law, which is the Emergency Banking Act. The "Emergency Banking Act" succeeded in doing away with the gold standard and all property as well as our labor were pledged as a "surety"on the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC that FDR could have stopped had he simply had the Treasury print our own currency as it is written in the organic Constitution instead of the one written in 1871 and he could have done that had he not been so spineless....but wait! There's more!!! All sovereign Americans residing within USA.INC suddenly and falsely were expatriated from their sovereign American status without their knowledge or consent and their labor, children, property, sweat equity and credit became the financial collateral for the public debt which had then been converted into a public trust and that was accomplished with the "birth certificate" requirement....up until that time, there was no such thing but using Admiralty law and the Universal Commercial Code? We became surety on the debt and they monetized our birth certificate and using actuarial tables based on what you will pay in taxes, commerce produced and "gubermint" fees for violating their acts, statutes and codes ( all designed to bring in revenue) over your lifetime? They come up with an amount to start with but it changes over the course of your lifetime...could go up or down...just depends on how hard you work for the legal tender..... and your beloved "gubermint" borrows against what you will produce...get it now? You are just a mule and when it comes to "retiring that mule" and unless you have squirreled away enough nuts ( i.e Federal Reserve notes that lose value every year)...you will get a mere pittance of the "benefits" that you were promised when you agreed to become a "U.S citizen" pledging loyalty and your labor to the corporation that is USA.INC that granted you "privileges" while taking away your God given rights..... unless you are smart enough to reclaim them like I have.
> 
> That is what FDR did for us.....what a guy!
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> word salad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What I did was post things that your teeny, tiny mind cannot understand or even comprehend because you lack the intellectual properties to digest it. Hope this helps!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Learn how to use paragraphs and maybe I'll read your nonsense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have lots of Birchers who visit your facebook page. Do you think you are original with that nonsense you post? Show some evidence and links to that garbage that isn't linked to the radical right wing. See if you can find an objective or academic source that will agree with your rant.
Click to expand...


"Birchers"????? Hardly...... perhaps I have friends of all stripes that understand what has been done to all of us...even fuckwads like you. I only have about 13,000 hours of research into how we got to this place and how the economic system works, the real history of the country and not the bullshit version we were taught in public schools that are nothing but indoctrination centers. I know where we have been...where we are now and where we are heading. I give seminars and talks for people that want to expand their knowledge base and at the the very least spur a little intellectual curiosity. I always give them a way to contact me if they believe that I have given them some erroneous information after they have done their due diligence....thus far, no one has. I have given you just a smidgen of what I know...so go ahead.....tell me that Washington D.C isn't a city/state and that it isn't the corporate headquarters of USA.INC..... try and prove that it's not a huge conglomerate with over 185,000 subsidiaries that includes states, cities, towns and burgs all of which can be found on Dun and Bradstreet with their all caps name. You were incorporated after your birth certificate was printed on bond paper three days after your parents didn't claim you. Look at your driver's license, the copy of your birth certificate, your social security card...any bill that you get, any banking statement you get, any dealing with the court system......your name is always in ALL CAPS because they are wanting you to contract with the corporate fiction that was created via your certificate of live birth because we are under admiralty law.  I know exactly of which I speak...you think I am wrong? The onus is on you to prove it then, punkinpuss........


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## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> word salad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I did was post things that your teeny, tiny mind cannot understand or even comprehend because you lack the intellectual properties to digest it. Hope this helps!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Learn how to use paragraphs and maybe I'll read your nonsense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have lots of Birchers who visit your facebook page. Do you think you are original with that nonsense you post? Show some evidence and links to that garbage that isn't linked to the radical right wing. See if you can find an objective or academic source that will agree with your rant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Birchers"????? Hardly...... perhaps I have friends of all stripes that understand what has been done to all of us...even fuckwads like you. I only have about 13,000 hours of research into how we got to this place and how the economic system works, the real history of the country and not the bullshit version we were taught in public schools that are nothing but indoctrination centers. I know where we have been...where we are now and where we are heading. I give seminars and talks for people that want to expand their knowledge base and at the the very least spur a little intellectual curiosity. I always give them a way to contact me if they believe that I have given them some erroneous information after they have done their due diligence....thus far, no one has. I have given you just a smidgen of what I know...so go ahead.....tell me that Washington D.C isn't a city/state and that it isn't the corporate headquarters of USA.INC..... try and prove that it's not a huge conglomerate with over 185,000 subsidiaries that includes states, cities, towns and burgs all of which can be found on Dun and Bradstreet with their all caps name. You were incorporated after your birth certificate was printed on bond paper three days after your parents didn't claim you. Look at your driver's license, the copy of your birth certificate, your social security card...any bill that you get, any banking statement you get, any dealing with the court system......your name is always in ALL CAPS because they are wanting you to contract with the corporate fiction that was created via your certificate of live birth because we are under admiralty law.  I know exactly of which I speak...you think I am wrong? The onus is on you to prove it then, punkinpuss........
Click to expand...


Tin foil hats optional?


----------



## Dale Smith

regent said:


> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.



But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.

Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....


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## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> What I did was post things that your teeny, tiny mind cannot understand or even comprehend because you lack the intellectual properties to digest it. Hope this helps!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Learn how to use paragraphs and maybe I'll read your nonsense
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have lots of Birchers who visit your facebook page. Do you think you are original with that nonsense you post? Show some evidence and links to that garbage that isn't linked to the radical right wing. See if you can find an objective or academic source that will agree with your rant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Birchers"????? Hardly...... perhaps I have friends of all stripes that understand what has been done to all of us...even fuckwads like you. I only have about 13,000 hours of research into how we got to this place and how the economic system works, the real history of the country and not the bullshit version we were taught in public schools that are nothing but indoctrination centers. I know where we have been...where we are now and where we are heading. I give seminars and talks for people that want to expand their knowledge base and at the the very least spur a little intellectual curiosity. I always give them a way to contact me if they believe that I have given them some erroneous information after they have done their due diligence....thus far, no one has. I have given you just a smidgen of what I know...so go ahead.....tell me that Washington D.C isn't a city/state and that it isn't the corporate headquarters of USA.INC..... try and prove that it's not a huge conglomerate with over 185,000 subsidiaries that includes states, cities, towns and burgs all of which can be found on Dun and Bradstreet with their all caps name. You were incorporated after your birth certificate was printed on bond paper three days after your parents didn't claim you. Look at your driver's license, the copy of your birth certificate, your social security card...any bill that you get, any banking statement you get, any dealing with the court system......your name is always in ALL CAPS because they are wanting you to contract with the corporate fiction that was created via your certificate of live birth because we are under admiralty law.  I know exactly of which I speak...you think I am wrong? The onus is on you to prove it then, punkinpuss........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hats optional?
Click to expand...

 I know more than you....and I am sure that it irks you...tough shit.


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## guno

Dale Smith said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
Click to expand...



you are the last one someone to listen too wade


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## guno

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learn how to use paragraphs and maybe I'll read your nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have lots of Birchers who visit your facebook page. Do you think you are original with that nonsense you post? Show some evidence and links to that garbage that isn't linked to the radical right wing. See if you can find an objective or academic source that will agree with your rant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Birchers"????? Hardly...... perhaps I have friends of all stripes that understand what has been done to all of us...even fuckwads like you. I only have about 13,000 hours of research into how we got to this place and how the economic system works, the real history of the country and not the bullshit version we were taught in public schools that are nothing but indoctrination centers. I know where we have been...where we are now and where we are heading. I give seminars and talks for people that want to expand their knowledge base and at the the very least spur a little intellectual curiosity. I always give them a way to contact me if they believe that I have given them some erroneous information after they have done their due diligence....thus far, no one has. I have given you just a smidgen of what I know...so go ahead.....tell me that Washington D.C isn't a city/state and that it isn't the corporate headquarters of USA.INC..... try and prove that it's not a huge conglomerate with over 185,000 subsidiaries that includes states, cities, towns and burgs all of which can be found on Dun and Bradstreet with their all caps name. You were incorporated after your birth certificate was printed on bond paper three days after your parents didn't claim you. Look at your driver's license, the copy of your birth certificate, your social security card...any bill that you get, any banking statement you get, any dealing with the court system......your name is always in ALL CAPS because they are wanting you to contract with the corporate fiction that was created via your certificate of live birth because we are under admiralty law.  I know exactly of which I speak...you think I am wrong? The onus is on you to prove it then, punkinpuss........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hats optional?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know more than you....and I am sure that it irks you...tough shit.
Click to expand...

sez failed mailroom boi


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## rightwinger

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learn how to use paragraphs and maybe I'll read your nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have lots of Birchers who visit your facebook page. Do you think you are original with that nonsense you post? Show some evidence and links to that garbage that isn't linked to the radical right wing. See if you can find an objective or academic source that will agree with your rant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Birchers"????? Hardly...... perhaps I have friends of all stripes that understand what has been done to all of us...even fuckwads like you. I only have about 13,000 hours of research into how we got to this place and how the economic system works, the real history of the country and not the bullshit version we were taught in public schools that are nothing but indoctrination centers. I know where we have been...where we are now and where we are heading. I give seminars and talks for people that want to expand their knowledge base and at the the very least spur a little intellectual curiosity. I always give them a way to contact me if they believe that I have given them some erroneous information after they have done their due diligence....thus far, no one has. I have given you just a smidgen of what I know...so go ahead.....tell me that Washington D.C isn't a city/state and that it isn't the corporate headquarters of USA.INC..... try and prove that it's not a huge conglomerate with over 185,000 subsidiaries that includes states, cities, towns and burgs all of which can be found on Dun and Bradstreet with their all caps name. You were incorporated after your birth certificate was printed on bond paper three days after your parents didn't claim you. Look at your driver's license, the copy of your birth certificate, your social security card...any bill that you get, any banking statement you get, any dealing with the court system......your name is always in ALL CAPS because they are wanting you to contract with the corporate fiction that was created via your certificate of live birth because we are under admiralty law.  I know exactly of which I speak...you think I am wrong? The onus is on you to prove it then, punkinpuss........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hats optional?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know more than you....and I am sure that it irks you...tough shit.
Click to expand...

Of course you do Fredo

You're Smart....not stupid like everyone says


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## Dale Smith

guno said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> you are the last one someone to listen too wade
Click to expand...

  Geez, dude....punctuation is your friend.


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## Dale Smith

guno said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)
> 
> 
> 
> You must have lots of Birchers who visit your facebook page. Do you think you are original with that nonsense you post? Show some evidence and links to that garbage that isn't linked to the radical right wing. See if you can find an objective or academic source that will agree with your rant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Birchers"????? Hardly...... perhaps I have friends of all stripes that understand what has been done to all of us...even fuckwads like you. I only have about 13,000 hours of research into how we got to this place and how the economic system works, the real history of the country and not the bullshit version we were taught in public schools that are nothing but indoctrination centers. I know where we have been...where we are now and where we are heading. I give seminars and talks for people that want to expand their knowledge base and at the the very least spur a little intellectual curiosity. I always give them a way to contact me if they believe that I have given them some erroneous information after they have done their due diligence....thus far, no one has. I have given you just a smidgen of what I know...so go ahead.....tell me that Washington D.C isn't a city/state and that it isn't the corporate headquarters of USA.INC..... try and prove that it's not a huge conglomerate with over 185,000 subsidiaries that includes states, cities, towns and burgs all of which can be found on Dun and Bradstreet with their all caps name. You were incorporated after your birth certificate was printed on bond paper three days after your parents didn't claim you. Look at your driver's license, the copy of your birth certificate, your social security card...any bill that you get, any banking statement you get, any dealing with the court system......your name is always in ALL CAPS because they are wanting you to contract with the corporate fiction that was created via your certificate of live birth because we are under admiralty law.  I know exactly of which I speak...you think I am wrong? The onus is on you to prove it then, punkinpuss........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hats optional?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know more than you....and I am sure that it irks you...tough shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> sez failed mailroom boi
Click to expand...


I am a skilled technician that works on a wide array of mailing equipment which includes equipment that sorts  the mail......OCRs, BCRs, photo-cell tracking....lots of electro-mechanical expertise required as well. As I recall, the last meaningful job you had was that of a dispatcher......and you didn't last very long doing that...probably because you were too busy posting bullshit on message boards. I hope things get better for ya......sincerely..

(snicker)


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## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)
> 
> 
> 
> You must have lots of Birchers who visit your facebook page. Do you think you are original with that nonsense you post? Show some evidence and links to that garbage that isn't linked to the radical right wing. See if you can find an objective or academic source that will agree with your rant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Birchers"????? Hardly...... perhaps I have friends of all stripes that understand what has been done to all of us...even fuckwads like you. I only have about 13,000 hours of research into how we got to this place and how the economic system works, the real history of the country and not the bullshit version we were taught in public schools that are nothing but indoctrination centers. I know where we have been...where we are now and where we are heading. I give seminars and talks for people that want to expand their knowledge base and at the the very least spur a little intellectual curiosity. I always give them a way to contact me if they believe that I have given them some erroneous information after they have done their due diligence....thus far, no one has. I have given you just a smidgen of what I know...so go ahead.....tell me that Washington D.C isn't a city/state and that it isn't the corporate headquarters of USA.INC..... try and prove that it's not a huge conglomerate with over 185,000 subsidiaries that includes states, cities, towns and burgs all of which can be found on Dun and Bradstreet with their all caps name. You were incorporated after your birth certificate was printed on bond paper three days after your parents didn't claim you. Look at your driver's license, the copy of your birth certificate, your social security card...any bill that you get, any banking statement you get, any dealing with the court system......your name is always in ALL CAPS because they are wanting you to contract with the corporate fiction that was created via your certificate of live birth because we are under admiralty law.  I know exactly of which I speak...you think I am wrong? The onus is on you to prove it then, punkinpuss........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hats optional?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know more than you....and I am sure that it irks you...tough shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course you do Fredo
> 
> Your Smart....not stupid like everyone says
Click to expand...

 "Your" and "You're"....please learn the difference....it is a pet peeve of mine....sheeesh.


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## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
Click to expand...

Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.


----------



## Sun Devil 92

I thought we'd settled this.

FDR was at the top of the list of worst presidents ever.


----------



## Camp

Sun Devil 92 said:


> I thought we'd settled this.
> 
> FDR was at the top of the list of worst presidents ever.


Your placement request was rejected. Please try again at a later date.


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
Click to expand...




Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
Click to expand...


Do your own due diligence and then come back and tell me that I am wrong...I shan't hold my breath.


Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
Click to expand...

 It's not a theory nor is it even up for debate should you do even a little bit of digging...but I understand where you are coming from because you believe that "da gubermint" works for you and has your best interest at heart. I beg to differ. This corporate entity has been bending us over since the early 1970's after they felt that they no longer needed a strong middle class. because it wasn't "sustainable"...that was when the Rockefeller Foundation recruited the liberal stupid fucks into the "environmental movement" and funded them as they screamed that we were killing the earth. The term "theory" means  that it is a systematic explanation of which can never be proven....I have documentation and the quotes of those invloved i this massive con job. Have you done any research about the Act of 1871, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the conditions leading up to it? How about the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy March 9th of 1933 of this corporate entity.......how much do you know...or are you simply one of the booger picking morons that smear their snot on the urinal walls???


----------



## gipper

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do your own due diligence and then come back and tell me that I am wrong...I shan't hold my breath.
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a theory nor is it even up for debate should you do even a little bit of digging...but I understand where you are coming from because you believe that "da gubermint" works for you and has your best interest at heart. I beg to differ. This corporate entity has been bending us over since the early 1970's after they felt that they no longer needed a strong middle class. because it wasn't "sustainable"...that was when the Rockefeller Foundation recruited the liberal stupid fucks into the "environmental movement" and funded them as they screamed that we were killing the earth. The term "theory" means  that it is a systematic explanation of which can never be proven....I have documentation and the quotes of those invloved i this massive con job. Have you done any research about the Act of 1871, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the conditions leading up to it? How about the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy March 9th of 1933 of this corporate entity.......how much do you know...or are you simply one of the booger picking morons that smear their snot on the urinal walls???
Click to expand...

I think you know the answer.

Leftnutter, Regent, and Camp are statists.  They were indoctrinated by the state, in the government schools, and unfortunately are incapable of over coming that indoctrination.  They are not stupid people, just brainwashed people.

An easy way to determine if an American is uninformed or brainwashed, is ask them if FDR was a great POTUS.  If they say he was, they have clearly identified themselves.


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do your own due diligence and then come back and tell me that I am wrong...I shan't hold my breath.
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a theory nor is it even up for debate should you do even a little bit of digging...but I understand where you are coming from because you believe that "da gubermint" works for you and has your best interest at heart. I beg to differ. This corporate entity has been bending us over since the early 1970's after they felt that they no longer needed a strong middle class. because it wasn't "sustainable"...that was when the Rockefeller Foundation recruited the liberal stupid fucks into the "environmental movement" and funded them as they screamed that we were killing the earth. The term "theory" means  that it is a systematic explanation of which can never be proven....I have documentation and the quotes of those invloved i this massive con job. Have you done any research about the Act of 1871, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the conditions leading up to it? How about the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy March 9th of 1933 of this corporate entity.......how much do you know...or are you simply one of the booger picking morons that smear their snot on the urinal walls???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you know the answer.
> 
> Leftnutter, Regent, and Camp are statists.  They were indoctrinated by the state, in the government schools, and unfortunately are incapable of over coming that indoctrination.  They are not stupid people, just brainwashed people.
> 
> An easy way to determine if an American is uninformed or brainwashed, is ask them if FDR was a great POTUS.  If they say he was, they have clearly identified themselves.
Click to expand...

Even conservative historians acknowledge the greatness of FDR

As does most of the world


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do your own due diligence and then come back and tell me that I am wrong...I shan't hold my breath.
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a theory nor is it even up for debate should you do even a little bit of digging...but I understand where you are coming from because you believe that "da gubermint" works for you and has your best interest at heart. I beg to differ. This corporate entity has been bending us over since the early 1970's after they felt that they no longer needed a strong middle class. because it wasn't "sustainable"...that was when the Rockefeller Foundation recruited the liberal stupid fucks into the "environmental movement" and funded them as they screamed that we were killing the earth. The term "theory" means  that it is a systematic explanation of which can never be proven....I have documentation and the quotes of those invloved i this massive con job. Have you done any research about the Act of 1871, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the conditions leading up to it? How about the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy March 9th of 1933 of this corporate entity.......how much do you know...or are you simply one of the booger picking morons that smear their snot on the urinal walls???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you know the answer.
> 
> Leftnutter, Regent, and Camp are statists.  They were indoctrinated by the state, in the government schools, and unfortunately are incapable of over coming that indoctrination.  They are not stupid people, just brainwashed people.
> 
> An easy way to determine if an American is uninformed or brainwashed, is ask them if FDR was a great POTUS.  If they say he was, they have clearly identified themselves.
Click to expand...

Shallow thinking Gipper. You fail to comprehend the argument. It is not about the details and misgivings, mistakes and faults of the individual FDR. The anti-FDR campaigns by the right are actually anti-New Deal efforts. Attacking the ideology and philosophy that FDR implemented can be extremely difficult because so many of his programs were pragmatic and still enjoyed and supported today. Once folks become aware of what was accomplished it becomes almost impossible to demonize the philosophy behind the New Deal. Few fully realize the positive affects the New Deal programs still have on 21st Century Americans. That is why it is attacked by first demonizing FDR himself, and in the case of our resident FDR hater, always attacking Roosevelt the man as the primary focus of attacking the New Deal philosophy.

The New Deal philosophy FDR championed can be explained very simply. Before FDR the government's focus was on helping big business be successful. The concept was that if big business did well, the benefits would be felt by the masses. The weaknesses and pitfalls of free market capitalism were ignored or accepted as problems and difficulties that came with the economic system. The end of World War I brought an era of the masses examining and searching new forms of governing that would not always leave the masses at the mercy of the rich and powerful capitalist or dictatorial monarchs. World War I was the catalyst that jump started communism and instigated acceptance of degrees of socialism intermingled with free market capitalism. A guy named Mussolini took over Italy and created what became known as fascism.

  America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Yes,

Thanks to the new deal the government is taking 7% of your salary and making your employer pay an additional 7%.

Ida May Fuller made out like a bandit.  

Paid about 25 bucks into the system....got the first S.S. check for 22 dollars and proceeded to live off of social security for 35 more years.

Our kids are paying for it now.

I could not imaging a greater legacy.....


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Camp said:


> America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.



This is an ignorant post.

The labor force was shifting at an incredible rate.

The country had been farming and small businesses prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution.  Even prior to the Great Roosevelt Depression, the elderly were getting screwed as they were being marginalized (althought some like the railroads attempted to keep them afloat).  

The needed help making the transition.  The Great Depression exacerbated the situation when many of them lost their savings.

They really needed help.

Instead of helping them (S.S. was passed in 1935 and didn't start paying until 1940), he saddled us with this joke we call S.S.


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Camp said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought we'd settled this.
> 
> FDR was at the top of the list of worst presidents ever.
> 
> 
> 
> Your placement request was rejected. Please try again at a later date.
Click to expand...


Get off your upside down barstool and be productive (for once).


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Learn how to use paragraphs and maybe I'll read your nonsense
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I usually cater to a much more intellectual clientele than those like you....so I don't have to write my postings as if I was writing a first grade primer or people with short attention spans. I posted this on my Facebook page and have already gotten 20 "likes" and it has only been up for 15 minutes., (snicker)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You must have lots of Birchers who visit your facebook page. Do you think you are original with that nonsense you post? Show some evidence and links to that garbage that isn't linked to the radical right wing. See if you can find an objective or academic source that will agree with your rant.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Birchers"????? Hardly...... perhaps I have friends of all stripes that understand what has been done to all of us...even fuckwads like you. I only have about 13,000 hours of research into how we got to this place and how the economic system works, the real history of the country and not the bullshit version we were taught in public schools that are nothing but indoctrination centers. I know where we have been...where we are now and where we are heading. I give seminars and talks for people that want to expand their knowledge base and at the the very least spur a little intellectual curiosity. I always give them a way to contact me if they believe that I have given them some erroneous information after they have done their due diligence....thus far, no one has. I have given you just a smidgen of what I know...so go ahead.....tell me that Washington D.C isn't a city/state and that it isn't the corporate headquarters of USA.INC..... try and prove that it's not a huge conglomerate with over 185,000 subsidiaries that includes states, cities, towns and burgs all of which can be found on Dun and Bradstreet with their all caps name. You were incorporated after your birth certificate was printed on bond paper three days after your parents didn't claim you. Look at your driver's license, the copy of your birth certificate, your social security card...any bill that you get, any banking statement you get, any dealing with the court system......your name is always in ALL CAPS because they are wanting you to contract with the corporate fiction that was created via your certificate of live birth because we are under admiralty law.  I know exactly of which I speak...you think I am wrong? The onus is on you to prove it then, punkinpuss........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tin foil hats optional?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I know more than you....and I am sure that it irks you...tough shit.
Click to expand...


Although.....that really isn't saying much.


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Took this off the web.....it's an OP.

It is not an argument....but a perspective......

Still......not everyone is a fan:

I know many democrats hold the idea that FDR was a great president but history is telling a different story. I am currently working on my masters degree in History and my class is currently discussing the FDR presidency, I must admit that before I was unaware of all the huge mistakes some accidental and some really stupid, that the FDR administration made. History leaves no doubt that because of FDR's bad judgment and bad leadership cost America and Europe hundreds of thousands of lives. The evidence is undisputable! I have a very liberal professor and she has the same conclusion. It has been only recently that historians have been able to see the full scope of his leadership and how it cost the world dearly. Does anyone else have a perspective on this topic?


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do your own due diligence and then come back and tell me that I am wrong...I shan't hold my breath.
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a theory nor is it even up for debate should you do even a little bit of digging...but I understand where you are coming from because you believe that "da gubermint" works for you and has your best interest at heart. I beg to differ. This corporate entity has been bending us over since the early 1970's after they felt that they no longer needed a strong middle class. because it wasn't "sustainable"...that was when the Rockefeller Foundation recruited the liberal stupid fucks into the "environmental movement" and funded them as they screamed that we were killing the earth. The term "theory" means  that it is a systematic explanation of which can never be proven....I have documentation and the quotes of those invloved i this massive con job. Have you done any research about the Act of 1871, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the conditions leading up to it? How about the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy March 9th of 1933 of this corporate entity.......how much do you know...or are you simply one of the booger picking morons that smear their snot on the urinal walls???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you know the answer.
> 
> Leftnutter, Regent, and Camp are statists.  They were indoctrinated by the state, in the government schools, and unfortunately are incapable of over coming that indoctrination.  They are not stupid people, just brainwashed people.
> 
> An easy way to determine if an American is uninformed or brainwashed, is ask them if FDR was a great POTUS.  If they say he was, they have clearly identified themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even conservative historians acknowledge the greatness of FDR
> 
> As does most of the world
Click to expand...

Who cares?  You think that means anything to me?


----------



## Sun Devil 92

rightwinger said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Without question, FDR was our greatest modern President
> 
> He reestablished the office of the President into a leader and not just a figurehead who followed the lead of Congress like Harding, Coolidge and Hoover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I noticed you left out Woodrow Wilson, that signed off on the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 that has basically enslaved us since it's inception and how he signed on Americans for WWI which was a total bullshit war designed to get us into debt to the very banking oligarchs that financed his campaign...must have just been an oversight on your part, no?
> 
> FDR was no prize either. He knew that the very same banking oligarchs that brought in Wilson to sign off on the Federal Reserve Act were the same ones that were behind the orchestrated market crash of 1929 that lead to the Depression and he did nothing about it....you know, the kind of Depression the people were told that a central bank would prevent?
> But wait, there is more....FDR made the people turn in their gold (which is real money) in exchange for Federal Reserve Notes and made it illegal for an American to possess gold bullion that was later turned over to the Fed bankers for (snicker) "safe keeping". On March 9, 1933, House Joint Resolution No. 192-10 was voted into law, which is the Emergency Banking Act. The "Emergency Banking Act" succeeded in doing away with the gold standard and all property as well as our labor were pledged as a "surety"on the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of USA.INC that FDR could have stopped had he simply had the Treasury print our own currency as it is written in the organic Constitution instead of the one written in 1871 and he could have done that had he not been so spineless....but wait! There's more!!! All sovereign Americans residing within USA.INC suddenly and falsely were expatriated from their sovereign American status without their knowledge or consent and their labor, children, property, sweat equity and credit became the financial collateral for the public debt which had then been converted into a public trust and that was accomplished with the "birth certificate" requirement....up until that time, there was no such thing but using Admiralty law and the Universal Commercial Code? We became surety on the debt and they monetized our birth certificate and using actuarial tables based on what you will pay in taxes, commerce produced and "gubermint" fees for violating their acts, statutes and codes ( all designed to bring in revenue) over your lifetime? They come up with an amount to start with but it changes over the course of your lifetime...could go up or down...just depends on how hard you work for the legal tender..... and your beloved "gubermint" borrows against what you will produce...get it now? You are just a mule and when it comes to "retiring that mule" and unless you have squirreled away enough nuts ( i.e Federal Reserve notes that lose value every year)...you will get a mere pittance of the "benefits" that you were promised when you agreed to become a "U.S citizen" pledging loyalty and your labor to the corporation that is USA.INC that granted you "privileges" while taking away your God given rights..... unless you are smart enough to reclaim them like I have.
> 
> That is what FDR did for us.....what a guy!
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> word salad
Click to expand...


Translation: You (meaning Rightloser) are to lazy to read it.


----------



## Sun Devil 92

FDR's court packing scheme is a prime example of that bastard's attempt to hijack our Constitution.


----------



## Camp

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an ignorant post.
> 
> The labor force was shifting at an incredible rate.
> 
> The country had been farming and small businesses prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution.  Even prior to the Great Roosevelt Depression, the elderly were getting screwed as they were being marginalized (althought some like the railroads attempted to keep them afloat).
> 
> The needed help making the transition.  The Great Depression exacerbated the situation when many of them lost their savings.
> 
> They really needed help.
> 
> Instead of helping them (S.S. was passed in 1935 and didn't start paying until 1940), he saddled us with this joke we call S.S.
Click to expand...

The Depression began in 1929. Roosevelt did not become President until 1933. The country was in a full depression in 1933 with unemployment over 20%.
You call my post ignorant when you don't even know when the Great Depression began.


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Camp said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an ignorant post.
> 
> The labor force was shifting at an incredible rate.
> 
> The country had been farming and small businesses prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution.  Even prior to the Great Roosevelt Depression, the elderly were getting screwed as they were being marginalized (althought some like the railroads attempted to keep them afloat).
> 
> The needed help making the transition.  The Great Depression exacerbated the situation when many of them lost their savings.
> 
> They really needed help.
> 
> Instead of helping them (S.S. was passed in 1935 and didn't start paying until 1940), he saddled us with this joke we call S.S.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Depression began in 1929. Roosevelt did not become President until 1933. They country was in full depression in 1933 with unemployment over 20%.
> You call my post ignorant when you don't even know when the Great Depression began.
Click to expand...


The Great Depression wasn't great until Roosevelt drug it out.

There were signs it was already lessening. 

He simply turned it from being a depression to a "great depression".

It's funny how you posts are nothing but a reflection of your own failure as a reasoned left winger.  

It's also great that you use this to deflect that fact that your post was shredded.


----------



## Camp

Sun Devil 92 said:


> FDR's court packing scheme is a prime example of that bastard's attempt to hijack our Constitution.


His court-packing scheme as you call it included a proposal being talked about today, mandatory retirement. The so-called scheme caused the court to begin ruling more in favor of FDR's contested programs that were constructing much of the infrastructure we are still using today.


----------



## rightwinger

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Took this off the web.....it's an OP.
> 
> It is not an argument....but a perspective......
> 
> Still......not everyone is a fan:
> 
> I know many democrats hold the idea that FDR was a great president but history is telling a different story. I am currently working on my masters degree in History and my class is currently discussing the FDR presidency, I must admit that before I was unaware of all the huge mistakes some accidental and some really stupid, that the FDR administration made. History leaves no doubt that because of FDR's bad judgment and bad leadership cost America and Europe hundreds of thousands of lives. The evidence is undisputable! I have a very liberal professor and she has the same conclusion. It has been only recently that historians have been able to see the full scope of his leadership and how it cost the world dearly. Does anyone else have a perspective on this topic?


Again with the revisionist history
FDR admitted he was exploring new territory. Some of his initiatives worked, some failed......the key was that he was willing to try
Your claims of hundreds of thousands of lives is revisionist bullshit. How many lives would be lost in the concentration camps for every extra month  Hitler remained in power? American manufacturing supplied not just our forces but the allies and the soviets. We accelerated the end of the war.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do your own due diligence and then come back and tell me that I am wrong...I shan't hold my breath.
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a theory nor is it even up for debate should you do even a little bit of digging...but I understand where you are coming from because you believe that "da gubermint" works for you and has your best interest at heart. I beg to differ. This corporate entity has been bending us over since the early 1970's after they felt that they no longer needed a strong middle class. because it wasn't "sustainable"...that was when the Rockefeller Foundation recruited the liberal stupid fucks into the "environmental movement" and funded them as they screamed that we were killing the earth. The term "theory" means  that it is a systematic explanation of which can never be proven....I have documentation and the quotes of those invloved i this massive con job. Have you done any research about the Act of 1871, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the conditions leading up to it? How about the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy March 9th of 1933 of this corporate entity.......how much do you know...or are you simply one of the booger picking morons that smear their snot on the urinal walls???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you know the answer.
> 
> Leftnutter, Regent, and Camp are statists.  They were indoctrinated by the state, in the government schools, and unfortunately are incapable of over coming that indoctrination.  They are not stupid people, just brainwashed people.
> 
> An easy way to determine if an American is uninformed or brainwashed, is ask them if FDR was a great POTUS.  If they say he was, they have clearly identified themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shallow thinking Gipper. You fail to comprehend the argument. It is not about the details and misgivings, mistakes and faults of the individual FDR. The anti-FDR campaigns by the right are actually anti-New Deal efforts. Attacking the ideology and philosophy that FDR implemented can be extremely difficult because so many of his programs were pragmatic and still enjoyed and supported today. Once folks become aware of what was accomplished it becomes almost impossible to demonize the philosophy behind the New Deal. Few fully realize the positive affects the New Deal programs still have on 21st Century Americans. That is why it is attacked by first demonizing FDR himself, and in the case of our resident FDR hater, always attacking Roosevelt the man as the primary focus of attacking the New Deal philosophy.
> 
> The New Deal philosophy FDR championed can be explained very simply. Before FDR the government's focus was on helping big business be successful. The concept was that if big business did well, the benefits would be felt by the masses. The weaknesses and pitfalls of free market capitalism were ignored or accepted as problems and difficulties that came with the economic system. The end of World War I brought an era of the masses examining and searching new forms of governing that would not always leave the masses at the mercy of the rich and powerful capitalist or dictatorial monarchs. World War I was the catalyst that jump started communism and instigated acceptance of degrees of socialism intermingled with free market capitalism. A guy named Mussolini took over Italy and created what became known as fascism.
> 
> America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.
Click to expand...

Silly.

Yeah we must all learn to ignore FDR's multiple lies, his domestic and foreign treasonous actions, his war that lead to the death of thousands, his foolish economic policies that impoverished millions, his Stalinist leanings, imprisoning Americans without trial, etc.....................

WTF!!!!  Foolish...CEO's still have the power.  FDR changed nothing...he was of the elite and he made sure his class prospered, while all others suffered, like most presidents.

PS.  FDR greatly admired and emulated Hitler and Mussolini, until he was controlled by Stalinist spies.


----------



## rightwinger

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an ignorant post.
> 
> The labor force was shifting at an incredible rate.
> 
> The country had been farming and small businesses prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution.  Even prior to the Great Roosevelt Depression, the elderly were getting screwed as they were being marginalized (althought some like the railroads attempted to keep them afloat).
> 
> The needed help making the transition.  The Great Depression exacerbated the situation when many of them lost their savings.
> 
> They really needed help.
> 
> Instead of helping them (S.S. was passed in 1935 and didn't start paying until 1940), he saddled us with this joke we call S.S.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Depression began in 1929. Roosevelt did not become President until 1933. They country was in full depression in 1933 with unemployment over 20%.
> You call my post ignorant when you don't even know when the Great Depression began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Great Depression wasn't great until Roosevelt drug it out.
> 
> There were signs it was already lessening.
> 
> He simply turned it from being a depression to a "great depression".
> 
> It's funny how you posts are nothing but a reflection of your own failure as a reasoned left winger.
> 
> It's also great that you use this to deflect that fact that your post was shredded.
Click to expand...

There were not signs it was lessening. After three years of Republican leadership, unemployment had gone to 25%


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Camp said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR's court packing scheme is a prime example of that bastard's attempt to hijack our Constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> His court-packing scheme as you call it included a proposal being talked about today, mandatory retirement. The so-called scheme caused the court to begin ruling more in favor of FDR's contested programs that were constructing much of the infrastructure we are still using today.
Click to expand...


OMGosh...this is funny.....

It wasn't madatory retirement....it was putting more people on the Court.

You are correct, he basically bullied the court.  Many historians agree that he lost a lot of political capital because of this blatant attempt to destroy the separation of powers.

Good to know you really don't think the constitution is relevant.


----------



## Camp

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an ignorant post.
> 
> The labor force was shifting at an incredible rate.
> 
> The country had been farming and small businesses prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution.  Even prior to the Great Roosevelt Depression, the elderly were getting screwed as they were being marginalized (althought some like the railroads attempted to keep them afloat).
> 
> The needed help making the transition.  The Great Depression exacerbated the situation when many of them lost their savings.
> 
> They really needed help.
> 
> Instead of helping them (S.S. was passed in 1935 and didn't start paying until 1940), he saddled us with this joke we call S.S.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Depression began in 1929. Roosevelt did not become President until 1933. They country was in full depression in 1933 with unemployment over 20%.
> You call my post ignorant when you don't even know when the Great Depression began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Great Depression wasn't great until Roosevelt drug it out.
> 
> There were signs it was already lessening.
> 
> He simply turned it from being a depression to a "great depression".
> 
> It's funny how you posts are nothing but a reflection of your own failure as a reasoned left winger.
> 
> It's also great that you use this to deflect that fact that your post was shredded.
Click to expand...

You making a comment that offers a misguided opinion does not shred my post you dope. To make such a stupid accusation and claim about when the Great Depression began requires you to provide a link to back up the stupid claims you are making.


----------



## Sun Devil 92

rightwinger said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an ignorant post.
> 
> The labor force was shifting at an incredible rate.
> 
> The country had been farming and small businesses prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution.  Even prior to the Great Roosevelt Depression, the elderly were getting screwed as they were being marginalized (althought some like the railroads attempted to keep them afloat).
> 
> The needed help making the transition.  The Great Depression exacerbated the situation when many of them lost their savings.
> 
> They really needed help.
> 
> Instead of helping them (S.S. was passed in 1935 and didn't start paying until 1940), he saddled us with this joke we call S.S.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Depression began in 1929. Roosevelt did not become President until 1933. They country was in full depression in 1933 with unemployment over 20%.
> You call my post ignorant when you don't even know when the Great Depression began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Great Depression wasn't great until Roosevelt drug it out.
> 
> There were signs it was already lessening.
> 
> He simply turned it from being a depression to a "great depression".
> 
> It's funny how you posts are nothing but a reflection of your own failure as a reasoned left winger.
> 
> It's also great that you use this to deflect that fact that your post was shredded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were not signs it was lessening. After three years of Republican leadership, unemployment had gone to 25%
Click to expand...


There were plenty of signs it was lessening.

The economy started to "improve" after 1933...and then turned south again.

Thanks FDR.


----------



## Sun Devil 92

Camp said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an ignorant post.
> 
> The labor force was shifting at an incredible rate.
> 
> The country had been farming and small businesses prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution.  Even prior to the Great Roosevelt Depression, the elderly were getting screwed as they were being marginalized (althought some like the railroads attempted to keep them afloat).
> 
> The needed help making the transition.  The Great Depression exacerbated the situation when many of them lost their savings.
> 
> They really needed help.
> 
> Instead of helping them (S.S. was passed in 1935 and didn't start paying until 1940), he saddled us with this joke we call S.S.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Depression began in 1929. Roosevelt did not become President until 1933. They country was in full depression in 1933 with unemployment over 20%.
> You call my post ignorant when you don't even know when the Great Depression began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Great Depression wasn't great until Roosevelt drug it out.
> 
> There were signs it was already lessening.
> 
> He simply turned it from being a depression to a "great depression".
> 
> It's funny how you posts are nothing but a reflection of your own failure as a reasoned left winger.
> 
> It's also great that you use this to deflect that fact that your post was shredded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You making a comment that offers a misguided opinion does not shred my post you dope. To make such a stupid accusation and claim about when the Great Depression began requires you to provide a link to back up the stupid claims you are making.
Click to expand...


I am not going to do Rightwingers homework for her.

Eveyrone who knows history, knows the elderly were getting screwed as early as 1900......

They needed help....

Germany had already addressed the problem because they led the way in industrialization and saw the ramifcations.

Go cry to your mother....she's the one giving you bad info.


----------



## rightwinger

Sun Devil 92 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an ignorant post.
> 
> The labor force was shifting at an incredible rate.
> 
> The country had been farming and small businesses prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution.  Even prior to the Great Roosevelt Depression, the elderly were getting screwed as they were being marginalized (althought some like the railroads attempted to keep them afloat).
> 
> The needed help making the transition.  The Great Depression exacerbated the situation when many of them lost their savings.
> 
> They really needed help.
> 
> Instead of helping them (S.S. was passed in 1935 and didn't start paying until 1940), he saddled us with this joke we call S.S.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Depression began in 1929. Roosevelt did not become President until 1933. They country was in full depression in 1933 with unemployment over 20%.
> You call my post ignorant when you don't even know when the Great Depression began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Great Depression wasn't great until Roosevelt drug it out.
> 
> There were signs it was already lessening.
> 
> He simply turned it from being a depression to a "great depression".
> 
> It's funny how you posts are nothing but a reflection of your own failure as a reasoned left winger.
> 
> It's also great that you use this to deflect that fact that your post was shredded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were not signs it was lessening. After three years of Republican leadership, unemployment had gone to 25%
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were plenty of signs it was lessening.
> 
> The economy started to "improve" after 1933...and then turned south again.
> 
> Thanks FDR.
Click to expand...

It turned south in 1938 after FDR gave in to demands from the right and cut government spending
He never listened to Republicans again


----------



## Sun Devil 92

rightwinger said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took this off the web.....it's an OP.
> 
> It is not an argument....but a perspective......
> 
> Still......not everyone is a fan:
> 
> I know many democrats hold the idea that FDR was a great president but history is telling a different story. I am currently working on my masters degree in History and my class is currently discussing the FDR presidency, I must admit that before I was unaware of all the huge mistakes some accidental and some really stupid, that the FDR administration made. History leaves no doubt that because of FDR's bad judgment and bad leadership cost America and Europe hundreds of thousands of lives. The evidence is undisputable! I have a very liberal professor and she has the same conclusion. It has been only recently that historians have been able to see the full scope of his leadership and how it cost the world dearly. Does anyone else have a perspective on this topic?
> 
> 
> 
> Again with the revisionist history
> FDR admitted he was exploring new territory. Some of his initiatives worked, some failed......the key was that he was willing to try
> Your claims of hundreds of thousands of lives is revisionist bullshit. How many lives would be lost in the concentration camps for every extra month  Hitler remained in power? American manufacturing supplied not just our forces but the allies and the soviets. We accelerated the end of the war.
Click to expand...


You don't know the answer to any of those questions either.  

It's not my claim asshole.....read what I wrote.  It came off a blog.....I said it was a "perspective".

Can you please stop posting so some people might still doubt you are one of the biggest dumbs**t's on the board ?


----------



## Sun Devil 92

rightwinger said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is an ignorant post.
> 
> The labor force was shifting at an incredible rate.
> 
> The country had been farming and small businesses prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution.  Even prior to the Great Roosevelt Depression, the elderly were getting screwed as they were being marginalized (althought some like the railroads attempted to keep them afloat).
> 
> The needed help making the transition.  The Great Depression exacerbated the situation when many of them lost their savings.
> 
> They really needed help.
> 
> Instead of helping them (S.S. was passed in 1935 and didn't start paying until 1940), he saddled us with this joke we call S.S.
> 
> 
> 
> The Depression began in 1929. Roosevelt did not become President until 1933. They country was in full depression in 1933 with unemployment over 20%.
> You call my post ignorant when you don't even know when the Great Depression began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Great Depression wasn't great until Roosevelt drug it out.
> 
> There were signs it was already lessening.
> 
> He simply turned it from being a depression to a "great depression".
> 
> It's funny how you posts are nothing but a reflection of your own failure as a reasoned left winger.
> 
> It's also great that you use this to deflect that fact that your post was shredded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were not signs it was lessening. After three years of Republican leadership, unemployment had gone to 25%
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were plenty of signs it was lessening.
> 
> The economy started to "improve" after 1933...and then turned south again.
> 
> Thanks FDR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It turned south in 1938 after FDR gave in to demands from the right and cut government spending
> He never listened to Republicans again
Click to expand...


Love it.......now it's the GOP's fault.

But he was doing great by himself.


----------



## rightwinger

Sun Devil 92 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took this off the web.....it's an OP.
> 
> It is not an argument....but a perspective......
> 
> Still......not everyone is a fan:
> 
> I know many democrats hold the idea that FDR was a great president but history is telling a different story. I am currently working on my masters degree in History and my class is currently discussing the FDR presidency, I must admit that before I was unaware of all the huge mistakes some accidental and some really stupid, that the FDR administration made. History leaves no doubt that because of FDR's bad judgment and bad leadership cost America and Europe hundreds of thousands of lives. The evidence is undisputable! I have a very liberal professor and she has the same conclusion. It has been only recently that historians have been able to see the full scope of his leadership and how it cost the world dearly. Does anyone else have a perspective on this topic?
> 
> 
> 
> Again with the revisionist history
> FDR admitted he was exploring new territory. Some of his initiatives worked, some failed......the key was that he was willing to try
> Your claims of hundreds of thousands of lives is revisionist bullshit. How many lives would be lost in the concentration camps for every extra month  Hitler remained in power? American manufacturing supplied not just our forces but the allies and the soviets. We accelerated the end of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know the answer to any of those questions either.
> 
> It's not my claim asshole.....read what I wrote.  It came off a blog.....I said it was a "perspective".
> 
> Can you please stop posting so some people might still doubt you are one of the biggest dumbs**t's on the board ?
Click to expand...

You can't even defend the nonsense you post can you?
The rightwing revisionist claims of FDR costing hundreds of thousands of lives are hard to prove in a war that cost tens of millions of lives


----------



## Sun Devil 92

rightwinger said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took this off the web.....it's an OP.
> 
> It is not an argument....but a perspective......
> 
> Still......not everyone is a fan:
> 
> I know many democrats hold the idea that FDR was a great president but history is telling a different story. I am currently working on my masters degree in History and my class is currently discussing the FDR presidency, I must admit that before I was unaware of all the huge mistakes some accidental and some really stupid, that the FDR administration made. History leaves no doubt that because of FDR's bad judgment and bad leadership cost America and Europe hundreds of thousands of lives. The evidence is undisputable! I have a very liberal professor and she has the same conclusion. It has been only recently that historians have been able to see the full scope of his leadership and how it cost the world dearly. Does anyone else have a perspective on this topic?
> 
> 
> 
> Again with the revisionist history
> FDR admitted he was exploring new territory. Some of his initiatives worked, some failed......the key was that he was willing to try
> Your claims of hundreds of thousands of lives is revisionist bullshit. How many lives would be lost in the concentration camps for every extra month  Hitler remained in power? American manufacturing supplied not just our forces but the allies and the soviets. We accelerated the end of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know the answer to any of those questions either.
> 
> It's not my claim asshole.....read what I wrote.  It came off a blog.....I said it was a "perspective".
> 
> Can you please stop posting so some people might still doubt you are one of the biggest dumbs**t's on the board ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't even defend the nonsense you post can you?
> The rightwing revisionist claims of FDR costing hundreds of thousands of lives are hard to prove in a war that cost tens of millions of lives
Click to expand...


The difference between us is that I understand that.

I called it a "perspective" of someone else and know how to qualify it.

You are nothing but a left wing bulls**t artist.

Go play with your dolls and don't let them outsmart you this time.


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took this off the web.....it's an OP.
> 
> It is not an argument....but a perspective......
> 
> Still......not everyone is a fan:
> 
> I know many democrats hold the idea that FDR was a great president but history is telling a different story. I am currently working on my masters degree in History and my class is currently discussing the FDR presidency, I must admit that before I was unaware of all the huge mistakes some accidental and some really stupid, that the FDR administration made. History leaves no doubt that because of FDR's bad judgment and bad leadership cost America and Europe hundreds of thousands of lives. The evidence is undisputable! I have a very liberal professor and she has the same conclusion. It has been only recently that historians have been able to see the full scope of his leadership and how it cost the world dearly. Does anyone else have a perspective on this topic?
> 
> 
> 
> Again with the revisionist history
> FDR admitted he was exploring new territory. Some of his initiatives worked, some failed......the key was that he was willing to try
> Your claims of hundreds of thousands of lives is revisionist bullshit. How many lives would be lost in the concentration camps for every extra month  Hitler remained in power? American manufacturing supplied not just our forces but the allies and the soviets. We accelerated the end of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know the answer to any of those questions either.
> 
> It's not my claim asshole.....read what I wrote.  It came off a blog.....I said it was a "perspective".
> 
> Can you please stop posting so some people might still doubt you are one of the biggest dumbs**t's on the board ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't even defend the nonsense you post can you?
> The rightwing revisionist claims of FDR costing hundreds of thousands of lives are hard to prove in a war that cost tens of millions of lives
Click to expand...

Geeze could you get any more ridiculous?   Don't answer...it is a rhetorical question.

It is easy to determine the human cost of FDR's war.  We never should have been in the war. So, all who died after FDR lied us into war, he caused their death


----------



## Camp

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR's court packing scheme is a prime example of that bastard's attempt to hijack our Constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> His court-packing scheme as you call it included a proposal being talked about today, mandatory retirement. The so-called scheme caused the court to begin ruling more in favor of FDR's contested programs that were constructing much of the infrastructure we are still using today.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OMGosh...this is funny.....
> 
> It wasn't madatory retirement....it was putting more people on the Court.
> 
> You are correct, he basically bullied the court.  Many historians agree that he lost a lot of political capital because of this blatant attempt to destroy the separation of powers.
> 
> Good to know you really don't think the constitution is relevant.
Click to expand...

You are hopelessly uninformed and uneducated on this topic. Roosevelt used a two-pronged attack on the court. One was the proposal to add judges that would increase it to a 15 Justice Court and the other one was to force retirement. The gamble was that the increase in size would fail, but the mandatory retirement might be passed as a compromise.

Short read
www.history.com/this-day-in-history/roosevelt-announces-court-packing-plan

Detailed academic review/essay
www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/new-deal/essays/fdr's-court-packing-plan-study-irony


----------



## rightwinger

Sun Devil 92 said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took this off the web.....it's an OP.
> 
> It is not an argument....but a perspective......
> 
> Still......not everyone is a fan:
> 
> I know many democrats hold the idea that FDR was a great president but history is telling a different story. I am currently working on my masters degree in History and my class is currently discussing the FDR presidency, I must admit that before I was unaware of all the huge mistakes some accidental and some really stupid, that the FDR administration made. History leaves no doubt that because of FDR's bad judgment and bad leadership cost America and Europe hundreds of thousands of lives. The evidence is undisputable! I have a very liberal professor and she has the same conclusion. It has been only recently that historians have been able to see the full scope of his leadership and how it cost the world dearly. Does anyone else have a perspective on this topic?
> 
> 
> 
> Again with the revisionist history
> FDR admitted he was exploring new territory. Some of his initiatives worked, some failed......the key was that he was willing to try
> Your claims of hundreds of thousands of lives is revisionist bullshit. How many lives would be lost in the concentration camps for every extra month  Hitler remained in power? American manufacturing supplied not just our forces but the allies and the soviets. We accelerated the end of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know the answer to any of those questions either.
> 
> It's not my claim asshole.....read what I wrote.  It came off a blog.....I said it was a "perspective".
> 
> Can you please stop posting so some people might still doubt you are one of the biggest dumbs**t's on the board ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't even defend the nonsense you post can you?
> The rightwing revisionist claims of FDR costing hundreds of thousands of lives are hard to prove in a war that cost tens of millions of lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The difference between us is that I understand that.
> 
> I called it a "perspective" of someone else and know how to qualify it.
> 
> You are nothing but a left wing bulls**t artist.
> 
> Go play with your dolls and don't let them outsmart you this time.
Click to expand...


If you have a perspective....provide some specifics not just unsupported rants


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took this off the web.....it's an OP.
> 
> It is not an argument....but a perspective......
> 
> Still......not everyone is a fan:
> 
> I know many democrats hold the idea that FDR was a great president but history is telling a different story. I am currently working on my masters degree in History and my class is currently discussing the FDR presidency, I must admit that before I was unaware of all the huge mistakes some accidental and some really stupid, that the FDR administration made. History leaves no doubt that because of FDR's bad judgment and bad leadership cost America and Europe hundreds of thousands of lives. The evidence is undisputable! I have a very liberal professor and she has the same conclusion. It has been only recently that historians have been able to see the full scope of his leadership and how it cost the world dearly. Does anyone else have a perspective on this topic?
> 
> 
> 
> Again with the revisionist history
> FDR admitted he was exploring new territory. Some of his initiatives worked, some failed......the key was that he was willing to try
> Your claims of hundreds of thousands of lives is revisionist bullshit. How many lives would be lost in the concentration camps for every extra month  Hitler remained in power? American manufacturing supplied not just our forces but the allies and the soviets. We accelerated the end of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know the answer to any of those questions either.
> 
> It's not my claim asshole.....read what I wrote.  It came off a blog.....I said it was a "perspective".
> 
> Can you please stop posting so some people might still doubt you are one of the biggest dumbs**t's on the board ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't even defend the nonsense you post can you?
> The rightwing revisionist claims of FDR costing hundreds of thousands of lives are hard to prove in a war that cost tens of millions of lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Geeze could you get any more ridiculous?   Don't answer...it is a rhetorical question.
> 
> It is easy to determine the human cost of FDR's war.  We never should have been in the war. So, all who died after FDR lied us into war, he caused their death
Click to expand...


So your historical perspective was to turn the other cheek after Pearl Harbor


----------



## Camp

Sun Devil 92 said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> America was no different. People were looking, discussing and debating reform that would protect the masses. FDR chose a transformation from the trickle down theory to a trickle up theory. Instead of the masses always relying on big business, FDR transformed the system to one where big business relied on the masses. The right has been fighting this transformation  ever since. They want to bring back the good old days when CEO's had the power of feudal lords and were treated as nobles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an ignorant post.
> 
> The labor force was shifting at an incredible rate.
> 
> The country had been farming and small businesses prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution.  Even prior to the Great Roosevelt Depression, the elderly were getting screwed as they were being marginalized (althought some like the railroads attempted to keep them afloat).
> 
> The needed help making the transition.  The Great Depression exacerbated the situation when many of them lost their savings.
> 
> They really needed help.
> 
> Instead of helping them (S.S. was passed in 1935 and didn't start paying until 1940), he saddled us with this joke we call S.S.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Depression began in 1929. Roosevelt did not become President until 1933. They country was in full depression in 1933 with unemployment over 20%.
> You call my post ignorant when you don't even know when the Great Depression began.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The Great Depression wasn't great until Roosevelt drug it out.
> 
> There were signs it was already lessening.
> 
> He simply turned it from being a depression to a "great depression".
> 
> It's funny how you posts are nothing but a reflection of your own failure as a reasoned left winger.
> 
> It's also great that you use this to deflect that fact that your post was shredded.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You making a comment that offers a misguided opinion does not shred my post you dope. To make such a stupid accusation and claim about when the Great Depression began requires you to provide a link to back up the stupid claims you are making.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not going to do Rightwingers homework for her.
> 
> Eveyrone who knows history, knows the elderly were getting screwed as early as 1900......
> 
> They needed help....
> 
> Germany had already addressed the problem because they led the way in industrialization and saw the ramifcations.
> 
> Go cry to your mother....she's the one giving you bad info.
Click to expand...

It is not someone else's job to substantiate a claim that you are making. It is your job to provide a link that indicates the depression was recovering in 1933 when FDR came into office. It is a brazenly misinformed comment claims a non-existent occurrence. that totally revises history and disagrees with 80 years of historians, both liberal and conservative.


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Took this off the web.....it's an OP.
> 
> It is not an argument....but a perspective......
> 
> Still......not everyone is a fan:
> 
> I know many democrats hold the idea that FDR was a great president but history is telling a different story. I am currently working on my masters degree in History and my class is currently discussing the FDR presidency, I must admit that before I was unaware of all the huge mistakes some accidental and some really stupid, that the FDR administration made. History leaves no doubt that because of FDR's bad judgment and bad leadership cost America and Europe hundreds of thousands of lives. The evidence is undisputable! I have a very liberal professor and she has the same conclusion. It has been only recently that historians have been able to see the full scope of his leadership and how it cost the world dearly. Does anyone else have a perspective on this topic?
> 
> 
> 
> Again with the revisionist history
> FDR admitted he was exploring new territory. Some of his initiatives worked, some failed......the key was that he was willing to try
> Your claims of hundreds of thousands of lives is revisionist bullshit. How many lives would be lost in the concentration camps for every extra month  Hitler remained in power? American manufacturing supplied not just our forces but the allies and the soviets. We accelerated the end of the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't know the answer to any of those questions either.
> 
> It's not my claim asshole.....read what I wrote.  It came off a blog.....I said it was a "perspective".
> 
> Can you please stop posting so some people might still doubt you are one of the biggest dumbs**t's on the board ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't even defend the nonsense you post can you?
> The rightwing revisionist claims of FDR costing hundreds of thousands of lives are hard to prove in a war that cost tens of millions of lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Geeze could you get any more ridiculous?   Don't answer...it is a rhetorical question.
> 
> It is easy to determine the human cost of FDR's war.  We never should have been in the war. So, all who died after FDR lied us into war, he caused their death
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So your historical perspective was to turn the other cheek after Pearl Harbor
Click to expand...

Oh...I forgot that you come to this board NEW every day...so naturally all the educating I have tried to instill in you over these many years, has failed.  I will try again knowing full well I will have to do it again tomorrow.

FDR set up Japan for the attack, knew it was coming beforehand, refused to warn Pearl, sacrificed those men at Pearl, and lied us into war.  

Get it...today?


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again with the revisionist history
> FDR admitted he was exploring new territory. Some of his initiatives worked, some failed......the key was that he was willing to try
> Your claims of hundreds of thousands of lives is revisionist bullshit. How many lives would be lost in the concentration camps for every extra month  Hitler remained in power? American manufacturing supplied not just our forces but the allies and the soviets. We accelerated the end of the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know the answer to any of those questions either.
> 
> It's not my claim asshole.....read what I wrote.  It came off a blog.....I said it was a "perspective".
> 
> Can you please stop posting so some people might still doubt you are one of the biggest dumbs**t's on the board ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You can't even defend the nonsense you post can you?
> The rightwing revisionist claims of FDR costing hundreds of thousands of lives are hard to prove in a war that cost tens of millions of lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Geeze could you get any more ridiculous?   Don't answer...it is a rhetorical question.
> 
> It is easy to determine the human cost of FDR's war.  We never should have been in the war. So, all who died after FDR lied us into war, he caused their death
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So your historical perspective was to turn the other cheek after Pearl Harbor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh...I forgot that you come to this board NEW every day...so naturally all the educating I have tried to instill in you over these many years, has failed.  I will try again knowing full well I will have to do it again tomorrow.
> 
> FDR set up Japan for the attack, knew it was coming beforehand, refused to warn Pearl, sacrificed those men at Pearl, and lied us into war.
> 
> Get it...today?
Click to expand...


So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities 

FDR had no advance notice of Pearl. As a former undersecretary of the Navy, he would not have allowed all of his battleships to be destroyed.


----------



## regent

Sun Devil 92 said:


> FDR's court packing scheme is a prime example of that bastard's attempt to hijack our Constitution.


Actually the first attempt to change the size of the Supreme Court for political purpose was during the Adam's administration, to prevent Jefferson from making an appointment  then again in 1860 the Republicans increased the Court from 9 to 10  so Lincoln might have an appointment. The Republicans then reduced the Court size by one so that Johnson could not appoint a justice, and one more time the Court size was changed to allow Grant to make an appointment, and so it goes.
.


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> ...
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> ......




You really think that arrogant, hateful scumbag cared about China or Korea? Don't be absurd. He didn't even give a shit about Americans.


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think that arrogant, hateful scumbag cared about China or Korea? Don't be absurd. He didn't even give a shit about Americans.
Click to expand...

Of course he did....he just considered Japanese Americans to be a threat to our society


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think that arrogant, hateful scumbag cared about China or Korea? Don't be absurd. He didn't even give a shit about Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course he did....he just considered Japanese Americans to be a threat to our society
Click to expand...



No he did not. He knew there was no such threat. He was a racist, unAmerican, despotic douchebag, and you are worse than a fool for trying to hug his nuts all these years later when his outrages are well-known.


----------



## Unkotare

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think that arrogant, hateful scumbag cared about China or Korea? Don't be absurd. He didn't even give a shit about Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course he did....he just considered Japanese Americans to be a threat to our society
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No he did not. He knew there was no such threat. He was a racist, unAmerican, despotic douchebag, and you are worse than a fool for trying to hug his nuts all these years later when his outrages are well-known.
Click to expand...


FDR considered Japanese Americans to be agents ready to sabotage military installations and infrastructure. So did Congress, most Americans and the Supreme Court


----------



## Unkotare

FDR’s Solicitor General Withheld Evidence in Japanese Internment Cases


----------



## Unkotare

World War II internment: U.S. top lawyer admits misconduct in Japanese American internment cases


----------



## Unkotare

"Although there were a few voices in the administration against internment—particularly Attorney General Francis Biddle and Gen. Mark Clark, the Army’s deputy chief of staff—the president disregarded the dissenters."

FDR’s Views on Japanese Offer a Window Into Why He Wouldn’t Save Jews


"...portrays the president as the victim of irresistible pressure from his military advisers and public opinion.

The museum’s exhibition on the Japanese internment makes no mention of the last decade’s most important new research findings concerning the motives behind the internment decision. _By Order of the President_, a critically acclaimed 2001 book by Greg Robinson, an American historian at the University of Quebec, revealed a number of incendiary articles about Asians that Franklin Roosevelt wrote in the 1920s. In those articles, the future president asserted that “the mingling of Asiatic blood with European or American blood produces, in nine cases out of ten, the most unfortunate results.” FDR argued that because “Japanese immigrants are not capable of assimilation into the American population,” they could not be trusted and their right to purchase land should be restricted."


----------



## Unkotare

"In a memorandum written in February 1942 that became known as the Ringle Report, Ringle estimated that the highest number of Japanese Americans "who would act as saboteurs or agents" of Japan was less than 3 percent of the total, or about 3500 in the United States; the most dangerous of these, he said, were already in custodial detention or were well known to the Naval Intelligence service or the FBI. In his summary Ringle concluded that the "Japanese Problem" had been distorted largely because of the physical characteristics of the people and should be handled based on the individual, regardless of citizenship, and not on race.

The Ringle Report was known to De Witt, who thus knew that Naval Intelligence estimated that at least 90 percent of the army's evacuation of Japanese Americans was unnecessary. In addition, the Department of Justice knew of the Ringle Report's conclusions when it filed its briefs in the _Hirabayashi_ and _Korematsu_ cases".



Read more: Japanese American Evacuation Cases - The Movement To Redress Victims - Ringle, Americans, Report, and Justice - JRank Articles Japanese American Evacuation Cases - The Movement To Redress Victims


----------



## Camp

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really think that arrogant, hateful scumbag cared about China or Korea? Don't be absurd. He didn't even give a shit about Americans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course he did....he just considered Japanese Americans to be a threat to our society
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> No he did not. He knew there was no such threat. He was a racist, unAmerican, despotic douchebag, and you are worse than a fool for trying to hug his nuts all these years later when his outrages are well-known.
Click to expand...

It is impossible to have anything resembling an academic or intellectual debate with a person who makes their bias, hate and emotions taint what should be and could be presented in objectivity. The topic of discussion is one that has been debated by scholars for over a half a century. There is no "wrong" or "right", rather a topic that can only be answered with opinions generated by factual data and explained in rational and pragmatic conclusions. There were strategic and economic concerns regarding Japans expanding interest is China. To pretend that Japan was manipulated into war by FDR because of some kind of hatred or racism is just immature and plain ignorant. Japan was becoming a predictable threat. The threat was written about and predicted in at least two books published by former British Navel intelligence officer Hector C. Bywater. The one failure in Bywater's prediction was that he warned the attack would come to the Philippines and not Pearl Harbor. He can be excused because at the time of his writings the US Asiatic Fleet (distinct from the Pacific Fleet) was stationed in Manila Bay, the Philippines and not Pearl Harbor. When Pearl became the forward Navel operating base for the Pacific Fleet in 1940 elements of the Asiatic Fleet were transferred to Pearl and placed under the command of the Pacific Fleet.


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> The topic of discussion is one that has been debated by scholars for over a half a century. ....




Fallacy


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> .... a topic that can only be answered with opinions generated by factual data .....




Factual data I have provided.


----------



## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The topic of discussion is one that has been debated by scholars for over a half a century. ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fallacy
Click to expand...

Perhaps we are talking about two different topics. I am discussing the idea that FDR manipulated the USA into a war with Japan. I think you are discussing internment camps.


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> ..... To pretend that Japan was manipulated into war by FDR......





_Ignoratio elenchi_


----------



## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... To pretend that Japan was manipulated into war by FDR......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Ignoratio elenchi_
Click to expand...

Nonsense, you believe FDR was malicious and I believe his decision was strategic in regards to Japanese internment. As I said, your bias is obvious and taints your views about the Pacific War with Japan in general.


----------



## rightwinger

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... To pretend that Japan was manipulated into war by FDR......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Ignoratio elenchi_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense, you believe FDR was malicious and I believe his decision was strategic in regards to Japanese internment. As I said, your bias is obvious and taints your views about the Pacific War with Japan in general.
Click to expand...

FDR acted in the context of 1942 America

different times, different country


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... To pretend that Japan was manipulated into war by FDR......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Ignoratio elenchi_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense, you believe FDR was malicious and I believe his decision was strategic in regards to Japanese internment. As I said, your bias is obvious and taints your views about the Pacific War with Japan in general.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FDR acted in the context of 1942 America
> 
> different times, different country
Click to expand...





Shameless fucking apologist. Read the links.


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... To pretend that Japan was manipulated into war by FDR......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Ignoratio elenchi_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense, you believe FDR was malicious and I believe his decision was strategic in regards to Japanese internment. As I said, your bias is obvious and taints your views about the Pacific War with Japan in general.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FDR acted in the context of 1942 America
> 
> different times, different country
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shameless fucking apologist. Read the links.
Click to expand...


1942 America


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... To pretend that Japan was manipulated into war by FDR......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Ignoratio elenchi_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense, you believe FDR was malicious and I believe his decision was strategic in regards to Japanese internment. As I said, your bias is obvious and taints your views about the Pacific War with Japan in general.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FDR acted in the context of 1942 America
> 
> different times, different country
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shameless fucking apologist. Read the links.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1942 America
Click to expand...






Read the links. Hell, read the parts I quoted in the posts.


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Ignoratio elenchi_
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense, you believe FDR was malicious and I believe his decision was strategic in regards to Japanese internment. As I said, your bias is obvious and taints your views about the Pacific War with Japan in general.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FDR acted in the context of 1942 America
> 
> different times, different country
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shameless fucking apologist. Read the links.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1942 America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read the links. Hell, read the parts I quoted in the posts.
Click to expand...


Cherry picking

FDR did not act alone. He had concurrence of the Justice Department, Military, Congress and Supreme Court

Japanese Americans were declared to be a security threat


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense, you believe FDR was malicious and I believe his decision was strategic in regards to Japanese internment. As I said, your bias is obvious and taints your views about the Pacific War with Japan in general.
> 
> 
> 
> FDR acted in the context of 1942 America
> 
> different times, different country
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shameless fucking apologist. Read the links.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1942 America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read the links. Hell, read the parts I quoted in the posts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Cherry picking
> 
> FDR did not act alone. He had concurrence of the Justice Department, Military, Congress and Supreme Court
> 
> Japanese Americans were declared to be a security threat
Click to expand...









You haven't read the links. You haven't even read the posts.


----------



## regent

The internment of the Japanese and Japanese-Americans was one of those things that happen in a period of fear and unknown. Were we to do it over again, knowing what we know no I'm sure we would approach the problem differently. In fact, knowing what we know now, we would probably do a lot of things differently. For example we wouldn't shoot down our own airplanes loaded with our own paratroopers. We might not have voted for Hoover or allowed Harding's men access to VA supplies. We made mistakes and will continue to make them. In any case Japanese can now become American citizens and they still vote Democratic. It took the 442nd. to solve the problem and start solving it at the time it was happening.


----------



## rightwinger

regent said:


> The internment of the Japanese and Japanese-Americans was one of those things that happen in a period of fear and unknown. Were we to do it over again, knowing what we know no I'm sure we would approach the problem differently. In fact, knowing what we know now, we would probably do a lot of things differently. For example we wouldn't shoot down our own airplanes loaded with our own paratroopers. We might not have voted for Hoover or allowed Harding's men access to VA supplies. We made mistakes and will continue to make them. In any case Japanese can now become American citizens and they still vote Democratic. It took the 442nd. to solve the problem and start solving it at the time it was happening.



If we knew what we know now in 1942 we wouldn't have interred the Japanese, would not have allowed segregation, would have gay marriage and environmental protection

What were they thinking?


----------



## gipper

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sun Devil 92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't know the answer to any of those questions either.
> 
> It's not my claim asshole.....read what I wrote.  It came off a blog.....I said it was a "perspective".
> 
> Can you please stop posting so some people might still doubt you are one of the biggest dumbs**t's on the board ?
> 
> 
> 
> You can't even defend the nonsense you post can you?
> The rightwing revisionist claims of FDR costing hundreds of thousands of lives are hard to prove in a war that cost tens of millions of lives
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Geeze could you get any more ridiculous?   Don't answer...it is a rhetorical question.
> 
> It is easy to determine the human cost of FDR's war.  We never should have been in the war. So, all who died after FDR lied us into war, he caused their death
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So your historical perspective was to turn the other cheek after Pearl Harbor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh...I forgot that you come to this board NEW every day...so naturally all the educating I have tried to instill in you over these many years, has failed.  I will try again knowing full well I will have to do it again tomorrow.
> 
> FDR set up Japan for the attack, knew it was coming beforehand, refused to warn Pearl, sacrificed those men at Pearl, and lied us into war.
> 
> Get it...today?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> 
> FDR had no advance notice of Pearl. As a former undersecretary of the Navy, he would not have allowed all of his battleships to be destroyed.
Click to expand...

Now you change the subject, after I completely eviscerated you.  So, we are NOT debating Pearl Harbor NOW.

Japan did invade those nations.  Do you think FDR needed to get Americans killed because Japan invaded other nations?  

It is very apparent FDR knew Pearl would be attacked beforehand and did nothing about it.  Could be why the carriers were not there.


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't even defend the nonsense you post can you?
> The rightwing revisionist claims of FDR costing hundreds of thousands of lives are hard to prove in a war that cost tens of millions of lives
> 
> 
> 
> Geeze could you get any more ridiculous?   Don't answer...it is a rhetorical question.
> 
> It is easy to determine the human cost of FDR's war.  We never should have been in the war. So, all who died after FDR lied us into war, he caused their death
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So your historical perspective was to turn the other cheek after Pearl Harbor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh...I forgot that you come to this board NEW every day...so naturally all the educating I have tried to instill in you over these many years, has failed.  I will try again knowing full well I will have to do it again tomorrow.
> 
> FDR set up Japan for the attack, knew it was coming beforehand, refused to warn Pearl, sacrificed those men at Pearl, and lied us into war.
> 
> Get it...today?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> 
> FDR had no advance notice of Pearl. As a former undersecretary of the Navy, he would not have allowed all of his battleships to be destroyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you change the subject, after I completely eviscerated you.  So, we are NOT debating Pearl Harbor NOW.
> 
> Japan did invade those nations.  Do you think FDR needed to get Americans killed because Japan invaded other nations?
> 
> It is very apparent FDR knew Pearl would be attacked beforehand and did nothing about it.  Could be why the carriers were not there.
Click to expand...


FDR rightfully sanctioned Japan for its militarism. U.S. Oil and steel would feed the Japanese war machine

Are you really that dumb?


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..... To pretend that Japan was manipulated into war by FDR......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Ignoratio elenchi_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nonsense, you believe FDR was malicious and I believe his decision was strategic in regards to Japanese internment. As I said, your bias is obvious and taints your views about the Pacific War with Japan in general.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FDR acted in the context of 1942 America
> 
> different times, different country
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shameless fucking apologist. Read the links.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1942 America
Click to expand...



fd-scumbag-r's Attorney General lived in 1942 America. So did the governor of Colorado. So did Naval Intelligence that informed the administration that no such threat existed.


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can't even defend the nonsense you post can you?
> The rightwing revisionist claims of FDR costing hundreds of thousands of lives are hard to prove in a war that cost tens of millions of lives
> 
> 
> 
> Geeze could you get any more ridiculous?   Don't answer...it is a rhetorical question.
> 
> It is easy to determine the human cost of FDR's war.  We never should have been in the war. So, all who died after FDR lied us into war, he caused their death
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So your historical perspective was to turn the other cheek after Pearl Harbor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh...I forgot that you come to this board NEW every day...so naturally all the educating I have tried to instill in you over these many years, has failed.  I will try again knowing full well I will have to do it again tomorrow.
> 
> FDR set up Japan for the attack, knew it was coming beforehand, refused to warn Pearl, sacrificed those men at Pearl, and lied us into war.
> 
> Get it...today?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> 
> FDR had no advance notice of Pearl. As a former undersecretary of the Navy, he would not have allowed all of his battleships to be destroyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you change the subject, after I completely eviscerated you.  So, we are NOT debating Pearl Harbor NOW.
> 
> Japan did invade those nations.  Do you think FDR needed to get Americans killed because Japan invaded other nations?
> 
> It is very apparent FDR knew Pearl would be attacked beforehand and did nothing about it.  Could be why the carriers were not there.
Click to expand...

Every one of your conspiracy theories has been debunked, most of them for over 70 years. You should at the very least let us know which conspiracy book and author you rely on for your data.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Geeze could you get any more ridiculous?   Don't answer...it is a rhetorical question.
> 
> It is easy to determine the human cost of FDR's war.  We never should have been in the war. So, all who died after FDR lied us into war, he caused their death
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your historical perspective was to turn the other cheek after Pearl Harbor
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh...I forgot that you come to this board NEW every day...so naturally all the educating I have tried to instill in you over these many years, has failed.  I will try again knowing full well I will have to do it again tomorrow.
> 
> FDR set up Japan for the attack, knew it was coming beforehand, refused to warn Pearl, sacrificed those men at Pearl, and lied us into war.
> 
> Get it...today?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> 
> FDR had no advance notice of Pearl. As a former undersecretary of the Navy, he would not have allowed all of his battleships to be destroyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you change the subject, after I completely eviscerated you.  So, we are NOT debating Pearl Harbor NOW.
> 
> Japan did invade those nations.  Do you think FDR needed to get Americans killed because Japan invaded other nations?
> 
> It is very apparent FDR knew Pearl would be attacked beforehand and did nothing about it.  Could be why the carriers were not there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every one of your conspiracy theories has been debunked, most of them for over 70 years. You should at the very least let us know which conspiracy book and author you rely on for your data.
Click to expand...

It is so sad that the statist brainwashing you endured in the government schools, can't be overcome.


----------



## Camp

Donald Trump would put Muslim Americans in internment today if given the opportunity. Well, at least the thousands he saw dancing in the streets of New Jersey on 9/11, probably.


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> So your historical perspective was to turn the other cheek after Pearl Harbor
> 
> 
> 
> Oh...I forgot that you come to this board NEW every day...so naturally all the educating I have tried to instill in you over these many years, has failed.  I will try again knowing full well I will have to do it again tomorrow.
> 
> FDR set up Japan for the attack, knew it was coming beforehand, refused to warn Pearl, sacrificed those men at Pearl, and lied us into war.
> 
> Get it...today?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> 
> FDR had no advance notice of Pearl. As a former undersecretary of the Navy, he would not have allowed all of his battleships to be destroyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you change the subject, after I completely eviscerated you.  So, we are NOT debating Pearl Harbor NOW.
> 
> Japan did invade those nations.  Do you think FDR needed to get Americans killed because Japan invaded other nations?
> 
> It is very apparent FDR knew Pearl would be attacked beforehand and did nothing about it.  Could be why the carriers were not there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every one of your conspiracy theories has been debunked, most of them for over 70 years. You should at the very least let us know which conspiracy book and author you rely on for your data.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is so sad that the statist brainwashing you endured in the government schools, can't be overcome.
Click to expand...

I provide links to academic sources suitible for submission with University level research papers and theses. You provide opinions formed from who knows where or what.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh...I forgot that you come to this board NEW every day...so naturally all the educating I have tried to instill in you over these many years, has failed.  I will try again knowing full well I will have to do it again tomorrow.
> 
> FDR set up Japan for the attack, knew it was coming beforehand, refused to warn Pearl, sacrificed those men at Pearl, and lied us into war.
> 
> Get it...today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> 
> FDR had no advance notice of Pearl. As a former undersecretary of the Navy, he would not have allowed all of his battleships to be destroyed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you change the subject, after I completely eviscerated you.  So, we are NOT debating Pearl Harbor NOW.
> 
> Japan did invade those nations.  Do you think FDR needed to get Americans killed because Japan invaded other nations?
> 
> It is very apparent FDR knew Pearl would be attacked beforehand and did nothing about it.  Could be why the carriers were not there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every one of your conspiracy theories has been debunked, most of them for over 70 years. You should at the very least let us know which conspiracy book and author you rely on for your data.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is so sad that the statist brainwashing you endured in the government schools, can't be overcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I provide links to academic sources suitible for submission with University level research papers and theses. You provide opinions formed from who knows where or what.
Click to expand...

We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.

When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> ...
> I provide links to academic sources suitible [sic] for submission with University level research papers and theses.....




Don't kid yourself.


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Ignoratio elenchi_
> 
> 
> 
> Nonsense, you believe FDR was malicious and I believe his decision was strategic in regards to Japanese internment. As I said, your bias is obvious and taints your views about the Pacific War with Japan in general.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FDR acted in the context of 1942 America
> 
> different times, different country
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shameless fucking apologist. Read the links.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1942 America
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> fd-scumbag-r's Attorney General lived in 1942 America. So did the governor of Colorado. So did Naval Intelligence that informed the administration that no such threat existed.
Click to expand...


1 governor against.....47 adamtely for internment

FDRs staff was in support of internment


----------



## Unkotare

Utterly fucking shameless apologist ^^^^^


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> FDR’s Solicitor General Withheld Evidence in Japanese Internment Cases




.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> World War II internment: U.S. top lawyer admits misconduct in Japanese American internment cases




.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> "Although there were a few voices in the administration against internment—particularly Attorney General Francis Biddle and Gen. Mark Clark, the Army’s deputy chief of staff—the president disregarded the dissenters."
> 
> FDR’s Views on Japanese Offer a Window Into Why He Wouldn’t Save Jews
> 
> 
> "...portrays the president as the victim of irresistible pressure from his military advisers and public opinion.
> 
> The museum’s exhibition on the Japanese internment makes no mention of the last decade’s most important new research findings concerning the motives behind the internment decision. _By Order of the President_, a critically acclaimed 2001 book by Greg Robinson, an American historian at the University of Quebec, revealed a number of incendiary articles about Asians that Franklin Roosevelt wrote in the 1920s. In those articles, the future president asserted that “the mingling of Asiatic blood with European or American blood produces, in nine cases out of ten, the most unfortunate results.” FDR argued that because “Japanese immigrants are not capable of assimilation into the American population,” they could not be trusted and their right to purchase land should be restricted."






.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> "In a memorandum written in February 1942 that became known as the Ringle Report, Ringle estimated that the highest number of Japanese Americans "who would act as saboteurs or agents" of Japan was less than 3 percent of the total, or about 3500 in the United States; the most dangerous of these, he said, were already in custodial detention or were well known to the Naval Intelligence service or the FBI. In his summary Ringle concluded that the "Japanese Problem" had been distorted largely because of the physical characteristics of the people and should be handled based on the individual, regardless of citizenship, and not on race.
> 
> The Ringle Report was known to De Witt, who thus knew that Naval Intelligence estimated that at least 90 percent of the army's evacuation of Japanese Americans was unnecessary. In addition, the Department of Justice knew of the Ringle Report's conclusions when it filed its briefs in the _Hirabayashi_ and _Korematsu_ cases".
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Japanese American Evacuation Cases - The Movement To Redress Victims - Ringle, Americans, Report, and Justice - JRank Articles Japanese American Evacuation Cases - The Movement To Redress Victims








.


----------



## Vigilante

People were stupid even back then.....


----------



## rightwinger

FDR was wrong to inter Japanese Americans

Easy to say in 2016. In 1942, mere months after Pearl Harbor it was not so easy to decide. Japanese were bedeviled, we did not know whether the extent of their attack included sabotage and terror attacks by Japanese Americans.  Now we know fears were unwarranted....in 1942 we didn't


----------



## Vigilante

rightwinger said:


> FDR was wrong to inter Japanese Americans
> 
> Easy to say in 2016. In 1942, mere months after Pearl Harbor it was not so easy to decide. Japanese were bedeviled, we did not know whether the extent of their attack included sabotage and terror attacks by Japanese Americans.  Now we know fears were unwarranted....in 1942 we didn't



Sounds like the muslim rapeugees we are getting today from another Socialist DemoRAT!


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> So FDR told Japan to invade Nanking and Korea. It is FDRs fault for holding Japan responsible for its attrocities
> 
> FDR had no advance notice of Pearl. As a former undersecretary of the Navy, he would not have allowed all of his battleships to be destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you change the subject, after I completely eviscerated you.  So, we are NOT debating Pearl Harbor NOW.
> 
> Japan did invade those nations.  Do you think FDR needed to get Americans killed because Japan invaded other nations?
> 
> It is very apparent FDR knew Pearl would be attacked beforehand and did nothing about it.  Could be why the carriers were not there.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Every one of your conspiracy theories has been debunked, most of them for over 70 years. You should at the very least let us know which conspiracy book and author you rely on for your data.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is so sad that the statist brainwashing you endured in the government schools, can't be overcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I provide links to academic sources suitible for submission with University level research papers and theses. You provide opinions formed from who knows where or what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
Click to expand...

I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make. 
I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason. 
You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.


----------



## rightwinger

FDR is acknowledged as our greatest modern President (only Lincoln surpasses him) in this country, but around the world

FDR saved the free world and they realize their debt to him


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> FDR was wrong to inter Japanese Americans....




You mean he was a fucking piece of shit for throwing innocent, loyal Americans in* concentration camps*.


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> ....  Now we know fears were unwarranted....in 1942 we didn't




Yes we did.


----------



## regent

Dale Smith said:


> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moonglow said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst US President ever - by far.
> 
> 
> 
> Beat the Japs and the Nazi's all at once...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, the military beat the Japs and Nazis all at once.  FDR wisely rubber-stamped whatever they wanted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hardly,, as FDR was the Commander in Chief, had the US lost FDR's name would be mud...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The code of the Japanese had been broken by January of 1941...almost a full year before Pearl Harbor that FDR allowed to happen...FACT. Japan had been goaded into attacking USA.INC but be that as it may, FDR KNEW that the Pearl Harbor attack was imminent and did nothing...FACT,
> 
> Sailors that were in sunken ships and subs that tapped out S.O.S messages in Morse code were left to die instead of being rescued because FDR needed a high body count in order to enter USA.INC into a costly war against the same people that the bankers, Wall Street and other monarchies that supported  Nazism because they used it as a bulwark against the very communists that would have never gotten to power without their help.....holy shit but are you ever fucking' ignorant of our real hsitory.
Click to expand...

Do you believe for one minute that the sailors on those ships would not go to any lengths to get their shipmates  out of those tombs? Holy fucking shit are  ever fucking ignorant of the people in the US navy.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now you change the subject, after I completely eviscerated you.  So, we are NOT debating Pearl Harbor NOW.
> 
> Japan did invade those nations.  Do you think FDR needed to get Americans killed because Japan invaded other nations?
> 
> It is very apparent FDR knew Pearl would be attacked beforehand and did nothing about it.  Could be why the carriers were not there.
> 
> 
> 
> Every one of your conspiracy theories has been debunked, most of them for over 70 years. You should at the very least let us know which conspiracy book and author you rely on for your data.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is so sad that the statist brainwashing you endured in the government schools, can't be overcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I provide links to academic sources suitible for submission with University level research papers and theses. You provide opinions formed from who knows where or what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
Click to expand...

Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.

Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every one of your conspiracy theories has been debunked, most of them for over 70 years. You should at the very least let us know which conspiracy book and author you rely on for your data.
> 
> 
> 
> It is so sad that the statist brainwashing you endured in the government schools, can't be overcome.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I provide links to academic sources suitible for submission with University level research papers and theses. You provide opinions formed from who knows where or what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
Click to expand...

I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
.


----------



## rightwinger

FDR saved the free world....Great President


----------



## Unkotare

He was a scumbag of historical proportion.


----------



## Camp

I posted these links in a different thread, but this seems like an appropriate thread for them too.
These links show how one of FDR's impacted one community, Tuscaloosa, Alabama when it was begun in 1937 and the results that can be seen today.

livingnewdeal.org/projects/bama

bamatheatre.org/history.php


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR was wrong to inter Japanese Americans....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean he was a fucking piece of shit for throwing innocent, loyal Americans in* concentration camps*.
Click to expand...




.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....  Now we know fears were unwarranted....in 1942 we didn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we did.
Click to expand...





.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is so sad that the statist brainwashing you endured in the government schools, can't be overcome.
> 
> 
> 
> I provide links to academic sources suitible for submission with University level research papers and theses. You provide opinions formed from who knows where or what.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
Click to expand...

That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.

Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....  Now we know fears were unwarranted....in 1942 we didn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...



Now we know the result of ignoring the Constitution....yet some refuse to learn from it.


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> I posted these links in a different thread, but this seems like an appropriate thread for them too.
> These links show how one of FDR's impacted one community, Tuscaloosa, Alabama when it was begun in 1937 and the results that can be seen today.
> 
> livingnewdeal.org/projects/bama
> 
> bamatheatre.org/history.php





How FDR's New Deal Harmed Millions of Poor People



It's Time to Explode the Myths About the New Deal


Bad Deal


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I provide links to academic sources suitible for submission with University level research papers and theses. You provide opinions formed from who knows where or what.
> 
> 
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
Click to expand...

I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.


gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I provide links to academic sources suitible for submission with University level research papers and theses. You provide opinions formed from who knows where or what.
> 
> 
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
Click to expand...

It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...




"I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult."

Fact not in evidence.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.

And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.


----------



## PoliticalChic

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
Click to expand...


"There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do."

Got him!

Cramp is so blinded by his pro-Roosevelt biases that he walks into the punch in every thread where he tries to either deny the association with Stalin, or to shield Roosevelt.

It's the proverbial shootin' fish in the barrel.


Now....can I get into the immigrant creds thing?

My whole family is in that category.
(Unfortunately, not all of us are on the Right side of the argument....Thanksgiving Dinner is 'bring your own shotgun.')


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...

Hey Campie, did those relatives admire Stalin or not?


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
Click to expand...

Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte. 
The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting. 
The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
Click to expand...

It is most unusual for anyone of Eastern Euro dissent to like FDR, after what he did to the world with his buddy Uncle Joe.


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey Campie, did those relatives admire Stalin or not?
Click to expand...

The ones who flooded into our homes as escapee immigrants from Hungary in 1956 hated him along with everyone else who came before and after that period.


PoliticalChic said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do."
> 
> Got him!
> 
> Cramp is so blinded by his pro-Roosevelt biases that he walks into the punch in every thread where he tries to either deny the association with Stalin, or to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> It's the proverbial shootin' fish in the barrel.
> 
> 
> Now....can I get into the immigrant creds thing?
> 
> My whole family is in that category.
> (Unfortunately, not all of us are on the Right side of the argument....Thanksgiving Dinner is 'bring your own shotgun.')
Click to expand...

Does your shoulder ever get sore from patting yourself on the back over delusional ideas that scatter around that skull of yours?


----------



## rightwinger

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is most unusual for anyone of Eastern Euro dissent to like FDR, after what he did to the world with his buddy Uncle Joe.
Click to expand...


Western Europe owes its existence to FDR


----------



## PoliticalChic

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is most unusual for anyone of Eastern Euro dissent to like FDR, after what he did to the world with his buddy Uncle Joe.
Click to expand...



Let's remind why that is...

*Roosevelt, Soviet Spy Harry Hopkins and 'Yes,sir, yes sir' George Marshall were fully behind handing all of Eastern Europe over to Stalin's *tender mercies.

Remember...they knew full well of the Terror Famine, the Katyn Forest Massacre, and other blood purges. by Stalin...all met with a 'Leftist shrug.'



Evidence of their intentions can be seen in a document which Hopkins took with him to the Quebec conference in August, 1943, entitled "Russia's Position," quoted as follows in Sherwood's book*["Roosevelt and Hopkins: An Intimate History,"byRobert E. Sherwood]*: 

"Russia's post-war position in Europe will be a dominant one. With Germany crushed, there is no power in Europe to oppose her tremendous military forces."


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is most unusual for anyone of Eastern Euro dissent to like FDR, after what he did to the world with his buddy Uncle Joe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Western Europe owes its existence to FDR
Click to expand...



You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??

Noble of him, huh?

Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?

*"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey Campie, did those relatives admire Stalin or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ones who flooded into our homes as escapee immigrants from Hungary in 1956 hated him along with everyone else who came before and after that period.
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do."
> 
> Got him!
> 
> Cramp is so blinded by his pro-Roosevelt biases that he walks into the punch in every thread where he tries to either deny the association with Stalin, or to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> It's the proverbial shootin' fish in the barrel.
> 
> 
> Now....can I get into the immigrant creds thing?
> 
> My whole family is in that category.
> (Unfortunately, not all of us are on the Right side of the argument....Thanksgiving Dinner is 'bring your own shotgun.')
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does your shoulder ever get sore from patting yourself on the back over delusional ideas that scatter around that skull of yours?
Click to expand...




"... delusional ideas...."

Can you name any?


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is most unusual for anyone of Eastern Euro dissent to like FDR, after what he did to the world with his buddy Uncle Joe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Western Europe owes its existence to FDR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??
> 
> Noble of him, huh?
> 
> Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?
> 
> *"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
> Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
Click to expand...


FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it

Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it

FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> 
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It is most unusual for anyone of Eastern Euro dissent to like FDR, after what he did to the world with his buddy Uncle Joe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Western Europe owes its existence to FDR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??
> 
> Noble of him, huh?
> 
> Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?
> 
> *"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
> Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it
> 
> Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it
> 
> FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president
Click to expand...



A lie.

FDR turned over control of military strategy to Stalin, who demanded that an attack on Germany via Italy and the Adriatic be abandoned, and the furthest point from Eastern Europe.....Normandy....be chosen.

"his leading military advisor" agreed that Italy was the correct venue...until overruled by Roosevelt and Stalin's spy, Hopkins.


----------



## rightwinger

UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Italy, Germany, Japan

All owe their existence as free nations and modern economies to FDR

Greatest modern President by far...nobody else is even close


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
> 
> 
> 
> It is most unusual for anyone of Eastern Euro dissent to like FDR, after what he did to the world with his buddy Uncle Joe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Western Europe owes its existence to FDR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??
> 
> Noble of him, huh?
> 
> Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?
> 
> *"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
> Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it
> 
> Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it
> 
> FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A lie.
> 
> FDR turned over control of military strategy to Stalin, who demanded that an attack on Germany via Italy and the Adriatic be abandoned, and the furthest point from Eastern Europe.....Normandy....be chosen.
> 
> "his leading military advisor" agreed that Italy was the correct venue...until overruled by Roosevelt and Stalin's spy, Hopkins.
Click to expand...

That D Day thing really kicked some Nazi ass didn't it?

While our troops bogged down in Italy

that FDR really knew his shit


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey Campie, did those relatives admire Stalin or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ones who flooded into our homes as escapee immigrants from Hungary in 1956 hated him along with everyone else who came before and after that period.
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do."
> 
> Got him!
> 
> Cramp is so blinded by his pro-Roosevelt biases that he walks into the punch in every thread where he tries to either deny the association with Stalin, or to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> It's the proverbial shootin' fish in the barrel.
> 
> 
> Now....can I get into the immigrant creds thing?
> 
> My whole family is in that category.
> (Unfortunately, not all of us are on the Right side of the argument....Thanksgiving Dinner is 'bring your own shotgun.')
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does your shoulder ever get sore from patting yourself on the back over delusional ideas that scatter around that skull of yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "... delusional ideas...."
> 
> Can you name any?
Click to expand...


You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
> 
> 
> 
> It is most unusual for anyone of Eastern Euro dissent to like FDR, after what he did to the world with his buddy Uncle Joe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Western Europe owes its existence to FDR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??
> 
> Noble of him, huh?
> 
> Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?
> 
> *"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
> Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it
> 
> Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it
> 
> FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A lie.
> 
> FDR turned over control of military strategy to Stalin, who demanded that an attack on Germany via Italy and the Adriatic be abandoned, and the furthest point from Eastern Europe.....Normandy....be chosen.
> 
> "his leading military advisor" agreed that Italy was the correct venue...until overruled by Roosevelt and Stalin's spy, Hopkins.
Click to expand...

You made a total fool of yourself when you did a thread on that exact topic. It showed your complete lack of historical and military knowledge.


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is most unusual for anyone of Eastern Euro dissent to like FDR, after what he did to the world with his buddy Uncle Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Western Europe owes its existence to FDR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??
> 
> Noble of him, huh?
> 
> Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?
> 
> *"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
> Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it
> 
> Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it
> 
> FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A lie.
> 
> FDR turned over control of military strategy to Stalin, who demanded that an attack on Germany via Italy and the Adriatic be abandoned, and the furthest point from Eastern Europe.....Normandy....be chosen.
> 
> "his leading military advisor" agreed that Italy was the correct venue...until overruled by Roosevelt and Stalin's spy, Hopkins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That D Day thing really kicked some Nazi ass didn't it?
> 
> While our troops bogged down in Italy
> 
> that FDR really knew his shit
Click to expand...


Excellent.
As soon as you begin vulgarity, you reveal that you recognize that you are wrong.
It's one of those tells that are hard to hide.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey Campie, did those relatives admire Stalin or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ones who flooded into our homes as escapee immigrants from Hungary in 1956 hated him along with everyone else who came before and after that period.
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do."
> 
> Got him!
> 
> Cramp is so blinded by his pro-Roosevelt biases that he walks into the punch in every thread where he tries to either deny the association with Stalin, or to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> It's the proverbial shootin' fish in the barrel.
> 
> 
> Now....can I get into the immigrant creds thing?
> 
> My whole family is in that category.
> (Unfortunately, not all of us are on the Right side of the argument....Thanksgiving Dinner is 'bring your own shotgun.')
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does your shoulder ever get sore from patting yourself on the back over delusional ideas that scatter around that skull of yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "... delusional ideas...."
> 
> Can you name any?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
Click to expand...



"You do a good job on your own."
So...we agree you can't find a single example of any such "... delusional ideas...."


"....Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's..."
What was Stalin's choice when he was attacked by his own ally?


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is most unusual for anyone of Eastern Euro dissent to like FDR, after what he did to the world with his buddy Uncle Joe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Western Europe owes its existence to FDR
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??
> 
> Noble of him, huh?
> 
> Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?
> 
> *"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
> Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it
> 
> Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it
> 
> FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A lie.
> 
> FDR turned over control of military strategy to Stalin, who demanded that an attack on Germany via Italy and the Adriatic be abandoned, and the furthest point from Eastern Europe.....Normandy....be chosen.
> 
> "his leading military advisor" agreed that Italy was the correct venue...until overruled by Roosevelt and Stalin's spy, Hopkins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made a total fool of yourself when you did a thread on that exact topic. It showed your complete lack of historical and military knowledge.
Click to expand...


So...where is any example of me being wrong?

I never am.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
Click to expand...

Labas to you.

Yes my wife, her father and brothers have been back.  Her father went in the mid-90s.  It was the first time he returned since he fled Stalin's murderous gangs during the war.  He told me of many terrible incidents in which he was nearly murdered by crazy drunk Russian troops.  He had four brothers and three sisters.  Only two survived Stalin's death camps.  His father was beaten to death by Russian troops because he did not know where his sons were.  His mother was raped repeatedly and left for dead by FDR's buddies.  My father in-law would not learn of these horrors until the mid-60s, when a letter managed to get through the Iron Curtain censors.  

The horrors of FDR's war caused by his Uncle Joe, are unknown to most Americans.

He was held at a DP camp in western Germany at wars end.  Mrs. Roosevelt came to the camp to tell all to return to their homelands and not to fear Uncle Joe.  All laughed at her and thankfully ignored her stupid lies.  Even she was a prolific liar.


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Western Europe owes its existence to FDR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??
> 
> Noble of him, huh?
> 
> Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?
> 
> *"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
> Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it
> 
> Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it
> 
> FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A lie.
> 
> FDR turned over control of military strategy to Stalin, who demanded that an attack on Germany via Italy and the Adriatic be abandoned, and the furthest point from Eastern Europe.....Normandy....be chosen.
> 
> "his leading military advisor" agreed that Italy was the correct venue...until overruled by Roosevelt and Stalin's spy, Hopkins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That D Day thing really kicked some Nazi ass didn't it?
> 
> While our troops bogged down in Italy
> 
> that FDR really knew his shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent.
> As soon as you begin vulgarity, you reveal that you recognize that you are wrong.
> It's one of those tells that are hard to hide.
Click to expand...

What a nutjob. Saying D-Day we kicked Nazi ass has now become "vulgarity"


----------



## rightwinger

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hey Campie, did those relatives admire Stalin or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ones who flooded into our homes as escapee immigrants from Hungary in 1956 hated him along with everyone else who came before and after that period.
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do."
> 
> Got him!
> 
> Cramp is so blinded by his pro-Roosevelt biases that he walks into the punch in every thread where he tries to either deny the association with Stalin, or to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> It's the proverbial shootin' fish in the barrel.
> 
> 
> Now....can I get into the immigrant creds thing?
> 
> My whole family is in that category.
> (Unfortunately, not all of us are on the Right side of the argument....Thanksgiving Dinner is 'bring your own shotgun.')
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does your shoulder ever get sore from patting yourself on the back over delusional ideas that scatter around that skull of yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "... delusional ideas...."
> 
> Can you name any?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
Click to expand...


Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
But wait...it gets better
The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Western Europe owes its existence to FDR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??
> 
> Noble of him, huh?
> 
> Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?
> 
> *"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
> Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it
> 
> Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it
> 
> FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A lie.
> 
> FDR turned over control of military strategy to Stalin, who demanded that an attack on Germany via Italy and the Adriatic be abandoned, and the furthest point from Eastern Europe.....Normandy....be chosen.
> 
> "his leading military advisor" agreed that Italy was the correct venue...until overruled by Roosevelt and Stalin's spy, Hopkins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That D Day thing really kicked some Nazi ass didn't it?
> 
> While our troops bogged down in Italy
> 
> that FDR really knew his shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent.
> As soon as you begin vulgarity, you reveal that you recognize that you are wrong.
> It's one of those tells that are hard to hide.
Click to expand...


Oh Lordy.........I do declare I feel a case of the vapors coming on

Such offensive language towards Mr Hitler


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??
> 
> Noble of him, huh?
> 
> Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?
> 
> *"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
> Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it
> 
> Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it
> 
> FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A lie.
> 
> FDR turned over control of military strategy to Stalin, who demanded that an attack on Germany via Italy and the Adriatic be abandoned, and the furthest point from Eastern Europe.....Normandy....be chosen.
> 
> "his leading military advisor" agreed that Italy was the correct venue...until overruled by Roosevelt and Stalin's spy, Hopkins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That D Day thing really kicked some Nazi ass didn't it?
> 
> While our troops bogged down in Italy
> 
> that FDR really knew his shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent.
> As soon as you begin vulgarity, you reveal that you recognize that you are wrong.
> It's one of those tells that are hard to hide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What a nutjob. Saying D-Day we kicked Nazi ass has now become "vulgarity"
Click to expand...



"Saying D-Day we kicked Nazi ass has now become "vulgarity"

Quote where I said "kicked Nazi ass has now become "vulgarity"

You're lying again, Cramp.


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Roosevelt only presented Eastern Europe and Russia to Stalin??
> 
> Noble of him, huh?
> 
> Do we count the millions of Russians Stalin had killed as part of the 'present'?
> 
> *"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
> Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it
> 
> Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it
> 
> FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> A lie.
> 
> FDR turned over control of military strategy to Stalin, who demanded that an attack on Germany via Italy and the Adriatic be abandoned, and the furthest point from Eastern Europe.....Normandy....be chosen.
> 
> "his leading military advisor" agreed that Italy was the correct venue...until overruled by Roosevelt and Stalin's spy, Hopkins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That D Day thing really kicked some Nazi ass didn't it?
> 
> While our troops bogged down in Italy
> 
> that FDR really knew his shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent.
> As soon as you begin vulgarity, you reveal that you recognize that you are wrong.
> It's one of those tells that are hard to hide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh Lordy.........I do declare I feel a case of the vapors coming on
> 
> Such offensive language towards Mr Hitler
Click to expand...








You never addressed any of my links, nuthugger.


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Campie, did those relatives admire Stalin or not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The ones who flooded into our homes as escapee immigrants from Hungary in 1956 hated him along with everyone else who came before and after that period.
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do."
> 
> Got him!
> 
> Cramp is so blinded by his pro-Roosevelt biases that he walks into the punch in every thread where he tries to either deny the association with Stalin, or to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> It's the proverbial shootin' fish in the barrel.
> 
> 
> Now....can I get into the immigrant creds thing?
> 
> My whole family is in that category.
> (Unfortunately, not all of us are on the Right side of the argument....Thanksgiving Dinner is 'bring your own shotgun.')
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does your shoulder ever get sore from patting yourself on the back over delusional ideas that scatter around that skull of yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "... delusional ideas...."
> 
> Can you name any?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
Click to expand...




The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.

Wadda guy, huh?


----------



## Camp

gipper said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Labas to you.
> 
> Yes my wife, her father and brothers have been back.  Her father went in the mid-90s.  It was the first time he returned since he fled Stalin's murderous gangs during the war.  He told me of many terrible incidents in which he was nearly murdered by crazy drunk Russian troops.  He had four brothers and three sisters.  Only two survived Stalin's death camps.  His father was beaten to death by Russian troops because he did not know where his sons were.  His mother was raped repeatedly and left for dead by FDR's buddies.  My father in-law would not learn of these horrors until the mid-60s, when a letter managed to get through the Iron Curtain censors.
> 
> The horrors of FDR's war caused by his Uncle Joe, are unknown to most Americans.
> 
> He was held at a DP camp in western Germany at wars end.  Mrs. Roosevelt came to the camp to tell all to return to their homelands and not to fear Uncle Joe.  All laughed at her and thankfully ignored her stupid lies.  Even she was a prolific liar.
Click to expand...

The Lithuanians favored the Nazi's and the Russians viewed them as collaborators. Many east European nations fought alongside the Nazi's on the eastern front against Russia. Poland was the country that got screwed, but most of the rest were just viewed as Nazi collaborators. 
Often overlooked is that Lithuania had a viable resistance against the Soviets after the war that stymied Russian colonization/immigration. The result is that today the percentage of ethnic Russians are far lower in Lietuva than the other Baltic countries of Latvia and Estonia and Belarus, Ukraine, etc. They fought in the forest until 1953. It was actually one of the longest guerrilla wars in Europe in the 20th Century (Kuodyte and Tracivskis "The Unknown War" 2006).


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## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Camp said:
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> PoliticalChic said:
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> Camp said:
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> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Campie, did those relatives admire Stalin or not?
> 
> 
> 
> The ones who flooded into our homes as escapee immigrants from Hungary in 1956 hated him along with everyone else who came before and after that period.
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> "There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do."
> 
> Got him!
> 
> Cramp is so blinded by his pro-Roosevelt biases that he walks into the punch in every thread where he tries to either deny the association with Stalin, or to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> It's the proverbial shootin' fish in the barrel.
> 
> 
> Now....can I get into the immigrant creds thing?
> 
> My whole family is in that category.
> (Unfortunately, not all of us are on the Right side of the argument....Thanksgiving Dinner is 'bring your own shotgun.')
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does your shoulder ever get sore from patting yourself on the back over delusional ideas that scatter around that skull of yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "... delusional ideas...."
> 
> Can you name any?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
Click to expand...

Frau Braun

Haven't we been over this unconditional surrender screed before?
Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?

And don't you believe the term is "parameters" not "perimeters"?


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## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Campie, did those relatives admire Stalin or not?
> 
> 
> 
> The ones who flooded into our homes as escapee immigrants from Hungary in 1956 hated him along with everyone else who came before and after that period.
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> "There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do."
> 
> Got him!
> 
> Cramp is so blinded by his pro-Roosevelt biases that he walks into the punch in every thread where he tries to either deny the association with Stalin, or to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> It's the proverbial shootin' fish in the barrel.
> 
> 
> Now....can I get into the immigrant creds thing?
> 
> My whole family is in that category.
> (Unfortunately, not all of us are on the Right side of the argument....Thanksgiving Dinner is 'bring your own shotgun.')
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does your shoulder ever get sore from patting yourself on the back over delusional ideas that scatter around that skull of yours?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "... delusional ideas...."
> 
> Can you name any?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
Click to expand...

No, he didn't, and Nazi surrender without total annihilation is another of your delusional ideas.


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## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
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> 
> rightwinger said:
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> 
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> 
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> Camp said:
> 
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> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ones who flooded into our homes as escapee immigrants from Hungary in 1956 hated him along with everyone else who came before and after that period.
> Does your shoulder ever get sore from patting yourself on the back over delusional ideas that scatter around that skull of yours?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "... delusional ideas...."
> 
> Can you name any?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Haven't we been over this unconditional surrender screed before?
> Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?
Click to expand...


"Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?"
You know, liar, that I never said Hitler would have surrendered.
Why do you continue to advanced the fib?
Oh....right....to shield Roosevelt.

Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr would have.

"Admiral Wilhelm Canaris. The head of the German Secret Service told Earle there were many sensible German people feeling that Hitler was leading their nation down a destructive path. Admiral Canaris continued that an honorable surrender from the German army to the American forces could be arranged."
Wilhelm Canaris | Jewish Virtual Library


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## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
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> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ones who flooded into our homes as escapee immigrants from Hungary in 1956 hated him along with everyone else who came before and after that period.
> Does your shoulder ever get sore from patting yourself on the back over delusional ideas that scatter around that skull of yours?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "... delusional ideas...."
> 
> Can you name any?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, he didn't, and Nazi surrender without total annihilation is another of your delusional ideas.
Click to expand...




Post #403, you fool.


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## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
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> 
> rightwinger said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> "... delusional ideas...."
> 
> Can you name any?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Haven't we been over this unconditional surrender screed before?
> Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?"
> You know, liar, that I never said Hitler would have surrendered.
> Why do you continue to advanced the fib?
> Oh....right....to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr would have.
> 
> "Admiral Wilhelm Canaris. The head of the German Secret Service told Earle there were many sensible German people feeling that Hitler was leading their nation down a destructive path. Admiral Canaris continued that an honorable surrender from the German army to the American forces could be arranged."
> Wilhelm Canaris | Jewish Virtual Library
Click to expand...


Hitler would have Canaris strung up by his testicles if he attempted to negotiate on behalf of Germany


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## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
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> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
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> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Haven't we been over this unconditional surrender screed before?
> Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?"
> You know, liar, that I never said Hitler would have surrendered.
> Why do you continue to advanced the fib?
> Oh....right....to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr would have.
> 
> "Admiral Wilhelm Canaris. The head of the German Secret Service told Earle there were many sensible German people feeling that Hitler was leading their nation down a destructive path. Admiral Canaris continued that an honorable surrender from the German army to the American forces could be arranged."
> Wilhelm Canaris | Jewish Virtual Library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hitler would have Canaris strung up by his testicles if he attempted to negotiate on behalf of Germany
Click to expand...


Actually....Hitler had Canaris hung twice.
Because Roosevelt wouldn't aid the resistance.....he was bespoken for by Stalin.
Good to see I've reduced you to basing your views on the Magic 8-Ball....no facts, no education....simply blind obedience to Roosevelt.



Need the names of a dozen of so other anti-Nazi, anti-communist Germans in the resistance with whom Roosevelt wouldn't allow the Allies to provide support????

"In a certain sense *there was not a single year between 1933 and 1945 during which there was not some contact or attempt at contact, between the anti-Hitler opposition and either Britain or the Unites States, or both." *The Greatest War Crime

Wilhelm Canaris

Franz von Papen

Colonel General Ludwig Beck Beginning in early 1937,"the first 'cell' of the Resistance Movement" was formed by Ludwig Beck, Army Chief of staff, and Carl Goerdeler, who had just resigned as Mayor of Leipzig as a gesture in defiance of Nazi anti-Semitism (Ritter,_Goerdeler's Struggle_, pp. 35-3G, 75-79). As financial adviser to the Robert Bosch firm of Stuttgart, Goerdeler was sent abroad by his employer "on business" between early 1937 and late 1939 to the U.S., Britain, Switzerland, Palestine and a dozen other countries, making contact with persons interested in the overthrow of Hitler's regime (Ibid, pp. 47, 81, 83, 305, 484; and Hoffmann,_German Resistance_, p. 153). The Greatest War Crime


Carl Friedrich Goerderler

Ulrich von Hassell

Johannes Popitz

Kurt von Hammerstein

*Job Wilhelm Georg Erdmann Erwin von Witzleben*(4 December 1881 – 8 August 1944) was aGermanofficer, by 1940 in the rank of aField Marshal(_Generalfeldmarschall_), and army commander in theSecond World War. A leading conspirator in the20 July plot,[1]he was designated to become Commander-in-Chief of theWehrmachtarmed forces in a post-Nazi regimehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_von_Witzleben


There were lots more....




Smashed you in the kisser with a custard pie, huh?


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## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> "... delusional ideas...."
> 
> Can you name any?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, he didn't, and Nazi surrender without total annihilation is another of your delusional ideas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post #403, you fool.
Click to expand...

Canaris was arrested a month after D-Day, chained, tortured and finally forced to strip naked before he was hung, twice by cheering and laughing crowd of SS troops. He was revived after the first hanging so he would know what was coming the second hanging a few minutes after the first one. 
Canaris never had the ability or authority to surrender. Like I said, your ideas are delusional. Do you need a link to the execution of Canaris?


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## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, he didn't, and Nazi surrender without total annihilation is another of your delusional ideas.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post #403, you fool.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Canaris was arrested a month after D-Day, chained, tortured and finally forced to strip naked before he was hung, twice by cheering and laughing crowd of SS troops. He was revived after the first hanging so he would know what was coming the second hanging a few minutes after the first one.
> Canaris never had the ability or authority to surrender. Like I said, your ideas are delusional. Do you need a link to the execution of Canaris?
Click to expand...



1. "Canaris never had the ability or authority to surrender."
Because of Roosevelt.

2. Many Allied leaders agreed with General *Wedemeyer*, that *Roosevelt's 'unconditional surrender' announcement unified and stiffened Germany's resolve not to surrender, .*...they knew that it would prolong the war. Included with Wedermeyer were Winston Churchill, Brit foreign minister Anthony Eden, Secretary of State Cordell Hull, Ambassador to Moscow Averell Harriman, and others.
"The Memoirs of Cordell Hull in two volumes," 1570, 1575


3. Now.... casualties....

To get an idea of the cost of the extended war...*."....over one hundred thirty-five thousand American GIs died –*a startling figure today – between D day[june 6, 1944] and V-E day,[May 8, 1945]...."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence

Get that?

135,000 brave American boys whose lives were offered up as a gift to Stalin....to make certain that communism survived.


Based on the ration of deaths to wounded, that would suggest almost*an additional 200,000 wounded, just between Normandy and Germany's surrender.*

Totally attributed to 'unconditional surrender.'


Thank FDR for those 200,000 dead and wounded.


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## Camp

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You do a good job on your own. The one about FDR being a puppet and flunky for Stalin is the best. FDR manipulated Stalin into spending 20 million Russians to defeat the Nazi's while the US spent only a small fraction percentage wise of that amount. Yet you seem convinced that Stalin was the one doing the manipulating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Haven't we been over this unconditional surrender screed before?
> Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?"
> You know, liar, that I never said Hitler would have surrendered.
> Why do you continue to advanced the fib?
> Oh....right....to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr would have.
> 
> "Admiral Wilhelm Canaris. The head of the German Secret Service told Earle there were many sensible German people feeling that Hitler was leading their nation down a destructive path. Admiral Canaris continued that an honorable surrender from the German army to the American forces could be arranged."
> Wilhelm Canaris | Jewish Virtual Library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hitler would have Canaris strung up by his testicles if he attempted to negotiate on behalf of Germany
Click to expand...

Here you go, here is one account of what happened to PolitcalChic's peacemaker.

auschwitz.dk/Canaris/id16.htm


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you imagine a "puppet" losing 200,000 lives while the "puppet master loses 20 million?
> But wait...it gets better
> The "puppet" ends up with half of Europe in return. The most modern and developed half
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Haven't we been over this unconditional surrender screed before?
> Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?"
> You know, liar, that I never said Hitler would have surrendered.
> Why do you continue to advanced the fib?
> Oh....right....to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr would have.
> 
> "Admiral Wilhelm Canaris. The head of the German Secret Service told Earle there were many sensible German people feeling that Hitler was leading their nation down a destructive path. Admiral Canaris continued that an honorable surrender from the German army to the American forces could be arranged."
> Wilhelm Canaris | Jewish Virtual Library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hitler would have Canaris strung up by his testicles if he attempted to negotiate on behalf of Germany
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually....Hitler had Canaris hung twice.
> Because Roosevelt wouldn't aid the resistance.....he was bespoken for by Stalin.
> Good to see I've reduced you to basing your views on the Magic 8-Ball....no facts, no education....simply blind obedience to Roosevelt.
> 
> 
> 
> Need the names of a dozen of so other anti-Nazi, anti-communist Germans in the resistance with whom Roosevelt wouldn't allow the Allies to provide support????
> 
> "In a certain sense *there was not a single year between 1933 and 1945 during which there was not some contact or attempt at contact, between the anti-Hitler opposition and either Britain or the Unites States, or both." *The Greatest War Crime
> 
> Wilhelm Canaris
> 
> Franz von Papen
> 
> Colonel General Ludwig Beck Beginning in early 1937,"the first 'cell' of the Resistance Movement" was formed by Ludwig Beck, Army Chief of staff, and Carl Goerdeler, who had just resigned as Mayor of Leipzig as a gesture in defiance of Nazi anti-Semitism (Ritter,_Goerdeler's Struggle_, pp. 35-3G, 75-79). As financial adviser to the Robert Bosch firm of Stuttgart, Goerdeler was sent abroad by his employer "on business" between early 1937 and late 1939 to the U.S., Britain, Switzerland, Palestine and a dozen other countries, making contact with persons interested in the overthrow of Hitler's regime (Ibid, pp. 47, 81, 83, 305, 484; and Hoffmann,_German Resistance_, p. 153). The Greatest War Crime
> 
> 
> Carl Friedrich Goerderler
> 
> Ulrich von Hassell
> 
> Johannes Popitz
> 
> Kurt von Hammerstein
> 
> *Job Wilhelm Georg Erdmann Erwin von Witzleben*(4 December 1881 – 8 August 1944) was aGermanofficer, by 1940 in the rank of aField Marshal(_Generalfeldmarschall_), and army commander in theSecond World War. A leading conspirator in the20 July plot,[1]he was designated to become Commander-in-Chief of theWehrmachtarmed forces in a post-Nazi regimehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_von_Witzleben
> 
> 
> There were lots more....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smashed you in the kisser with a custard pie, huh?
Click to expand...

There were some twenty odd attempts on Hitlers life. Untold conspiracies to unseat him or undermine his authority. The Gestapo was quite adept at sniffing them out and dealing with the perpetrators accordingly
Admiral Canaris would be no different


----------



## regent

So when all is said and done, FDR is still rated one of the top three American presidents by conservative historians and number one by the other historians. All the historians being America's best presidential experts. Maybe arguing with historians is not the best way to defame FDR, how about a vision, Stalin appearing at night and telling the truth about FDR, or the discovery of FDR's secret papers?


----------



## Camp

Carl Friedrich Goerderier is another name PoliticalChic names as a potential peacemaker who could help broker a conditional surrender. 
His entire family was arrested with him. They were sent to concentration camps and he and his brother were hung in typical Nazi fashion.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> So when all is said and done, FDR is still rated one of the top three American presidents by conservative historians and number one by the other historians.....




Fallacy


----------



## Camp

This is another guy on PoliticalChic's list of guys who might have been able to negotiate a conditional surrender. Unfortunately, the SS got their hands on him. Being a diplomat from a good family, they gave him a two-day trial. Then they hanged him.


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> FDR saved the free world....Great President


FDR made everyone born after March 9th, 1933 as a surety of the debt via their birth certificate.....how was that a good thing? He made everyone a 14th amendment citizen subject to acts, statutes and codes using Admiralty law instead of the organic Constitution....how did he "free" anyone???


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR saved the free world....Great President
> 
> 
> 
> FDR made everyone born after March 9th, 1933 as a surety of the debt via their birth certificate.....how was that a good thing? He made everyone a 14th amendment citizen subject to acts, statutes and codes using Admiralty law instead of the organic Constitution....how did he "free" anyone???
Click to expand...

It was good for a few hundred million American who retired with enough funds to live their last years with dignity and a level of comfort. That is provable undeniable fact. Seventy plus years of retired people able to collect funding for retirement. Those other things you mention are just speculations and opinions of a political nature and agenda. But those old times collecting monthly checks for over 70 years is fact, not speculation or opinion.


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> 
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> We have been down this road many times and I have provided you numerous links...all of which you have ignored.  Why?  Because you are statist dupe.
> 
> When will you learn that elitists in government, like your hero FDR, are liars....prolific liars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did not ignore your links. I believe I explained very clearly why they were not appropriate nor fulfilling my request for links to prove the point you were attempting to make.
> I remember you could not provide links relevant to the topic at hand so you gave links to unrelated topics. I rejected the links you provided for that reason.
> You are making an accusation that began 75 years ago. It was debunked by numerous military and congressional committees way back then and has continued to be debunked over and over, decade after decade. As I previously stated, one need only google 'pearl harbor conspiracy theories debunked' to have access to endless pages of your theories being debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes the truth is plain to see, yet some refuse to accept it.
> 
> Americans WANT to believe their political leaders truthful, just, and good.  They are told this from age of five, in government schools and by government agents.  Some fully accept the propaganda ignoring 5000 years of history that reveals nearly all political leaders are liars, criminals, and unethical.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't know anyone who grew up learning the nonsense in public schools you are claiming. Everyone knows politicians are almost always crooks and liars. We accept it from the ones we like and use it to demonize the ones we dislike. No better example can be made than Trump calling his opponents liars when he himself is a pathological liar of epic proportions and his supporters allow it and accept it.
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...



Couldn't have been a Bolshevik revolution nor a atheistic communism regime without the help of the Jesuits and Wall Street that controlled the WH after the Fed Act of 1913.  The Tsar of Russia helped keep England and France from re-claiming the united states for America by keeping them at bay as they were going to come in on the side of the south. The south would have never tried to secede had it not been for the Jesuits that promised Jefferson Davis (that belonged to the Jesuit Knights of the Golden Circle). The Rothschilds funded all of this chicanery and they swore revenge on the Tsar and they got it 56 years later with the Bolshevik Revelution


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR saved the free world....Great President
> 
> 
> 
> FDR made everyone born after March 9th, 1933 as a surety of the debt via their birth certificate.....how was that a good thing? He made everyone a 14th amendment citizen subject to acts, statutes and codes using Admiralty law instead of the organic Constitution....how did he "free" anyone???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was good for a few hundred million American who retired with enough funds to live their last years with dignity and a level of comfort. That is provable undeniable fact. Seventy plus years of retired people able to collect funding for retirement. Those other things you mention are just speculations and opinions of a political nature and agenda. But those old times collecting monthly checks for over 70 years is fact, not speculation or opinion.
Click to expand...

 When the birth certificate was monetized, it was put as a worth of 1 million dollars that then turned into 9 million dollars worth of loans with usury attached to it due to fractional reserve banking. With the gold confiscation of the American people that was then stolen by the Fed bankers, our bills were to be essentially paid because we were no longer using money but debt notes so "da gubermint" DID not give anyone anything . The birth certificate bond matures when the "person" (i.e a corporate entity turns 18) and from that point on starts earning real interest for whichever bank purchased it based on your earnings, taxes and other "gubermint" penalties and fees that you pay over your lifetime. They collect the balance on that bond with your death certificate. The bond that was created could only be used as collateral with our permission and that was why the S.S law was put into place...once you signed off on it, you made "da gubermint" the trustee on that bond in exchange for social security, unemployment insurance that was later used to tax you and your employer to fund through an extraction of your labor...so much shit that you don't know and understand and I doubt that you even have the intellect to understand it.


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do your own due diligence and then come back and tell me that I am wrong...I shan't hold my breath.
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine the conservatives glee if there had been no internment camps and there had been sabotage. Conservatives and Republicans could really have a field day with FDR. In any case most of the Japanese-Americans seemed to have understood and continued to support the Democratic party of FDR even to this day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a theory nor is it even up for debate should you do even a little bit of digging...but I understand where you are coming from because you believe that "da gubermint" works for you and has your best interest at heart. I beg to differ. This corporate entity has been bending us over since the early 1970's after they felt that they no longer needed a strong middle class. because it wasn't "sustainable"...that was when the Rockefeller Foundation recruited the liberal stupid fucks into the "environmental movement" and funded them as they screamed that we were killing the earth. The term "theory" means  that it is a systematic explanation of which can never be proven....I have documentation and the quotes of those invloved i this massive con job. Have you done any research about the Act of 1871, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the conditions leading up to it? How about the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy March 9th of 1933 of this corporate entity.......how much do you know...or are you simply one of the booger picking morons that smear their snot on the urinal walls???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you know the answer.
> 
> Leftnutter, Regent, and Camp are statists.  They were indoctrinated by the state, in the government schools, and unfortunately are incapable of over coming that indoctrination.  They are not stupid people, just brainwashed people.
> 
> An easy way to determine if an American is uninformed or brainwashed, is ask them if FDR was a great POTUS.  If they say he was, they have clearly identified themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even conservative historians acknowledge the greatness of FDR
> 
> As does most of the world
Click to expand...



In the face of numerous revelations about *Roosevelt's mistakes, gaffes, bias toward minorities, fiscal misadventures such as Social Security, extending both the Depression and WWII, and love affair with the homicidal killer, Joseph Stalin....*


...we still hear that *'historians' *"rated FDR as America's greatest president."


How much faith should one put into the scribblings of an amanuensis, one who simply takes dictation from a superior, who is *neither objective, nor factual*, in that said 'historian' can choose what to put in and what to leave out?




If historians depend on the folks in charge for both income and status, how much faith should be put in the truth of their conclusions?




And, btw....*who owns academia and almost every avenue of the dissemination of information?*
Yup....Liberals/Progressives/Democrats.

*No wonder so many undeserving individuals, read 'FDR' and Obama, get praises heaped upon them.*






The answer as to how much to accept the view of said 'historians' is, or course,*"trust, but verify."
A real President coined that phrase.*


----------



## Dale Smith

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Haven't we been over this unconditional surrender screed before?
> Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?"
> You know, liar, that I never said Hitler would have surrendered.
> Why do you continue to advanced the fib?
> Oh....right....to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr would have.
> 
> "Admiral Wilhelm Canaris. The head of the German Secret Service told Earle there were many sensible German people feeling that Hitler was leading their nation down a destructive path. Admiral Canaris continued that an honorable surrender from the German army to the American forces could be arranged."
> Wilhelm Canaris | Jewish Virtual Library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hitler would have Canaris strung up by his testicles if he attempted to negotiate on behalf of Germany
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually....Hitler had Canaris hung twice.
> Because Roosevelt wouldn't aid the resistance.....he was bespoken for by Stalin.
> Good to see I've reduced you to basing your views on the Magic 8-Ball....no facts, no education....simply blind obedience to Roosevelt.
> 
> 
> 
> Need the names of a dozen of so other anti-Nazi, anti-communist Germans in the resistance with whom Roosevelt wouldn't allow the Allies to provide support????
> 
> "In a certain sense *there was not a single year between 1933 and 1945 during which there was not some contact or attempt at contact, between the anti-Hitler opposition and either Britain or the Unites States, or both." *The Greatest War Crime
> 
> Wilhelm Canaris
> 
> Franz von Papen
> 
> Colonel General Ludwig Beck Beginning in early 1937,"the first 'cell' of the Resistance Movement" was formed by Ludwig Beck, Army Chief of staff, and Carl Goerdeler, who had just resigned as Mayor of Leipzig as a gesture in defiance of Nazi anti-Semitism (Ritter,_Goerdeler's Struggle_, pp. 35-3G, 75-79). As financial adviser to the Robert Bosch firm of Stuttgart, Goerdeler was sent abroad by his employer "on business" between early 1937 and late 1939 to the U.S., Britain, Switzerland, Palestine and a dozen other countries, making contact with persons interested in the overthrow of Hitler's regime (Ibid, pp. 47, 81, 83, 305, 484; and Hoffmann,_German Resistance_, p. 153). The Greatest War Crime
> 
> 
> Carl Friedrich Goerderler
> 
> Ulrich von Hassell
> 
> Johannes Popitz
> 
> Kurt von Hammerstein
> 
> *Job Wilhelm Georg Erdmann Erwin von Witzleben*(4 December 1881 – 8 August 1944) was aGermanofficer, by 1940 in the rank of aField Marshal(_Generalfeldmarschall_), and army commander in theSecond World War. A leading conspirator in the20 July plot,[1]he was designated to become Commander-in-Chief of theWehrmachtarmed forces in a post-Nazi regimehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_von_Witzleben
> 
> 
> There were lots more....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smashed you in the kisser with a custard pie, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were some twenty odd attempts on Hitlers life. Untold conspiracies to unseat him or undermine his authority. The Gestapo was quite adept at sniffing them out and dealing with the perpetrators accordingly
> Admiral Canaris would be no different
Click to expand...



Wall Street and the Monarchies that supported Hitler and made a pretty penny off of his slave labor where in no hurry to shut Hitler down. He was allowed to escape and lived until his death in South America. USA.INC picked over the remains of the S.S and Gestapo and brought the best of the best into America using the Vatican ratlines (which their backgrounds were whitewashed) under "Operation Paperclip" and put in places of power and high positions like the OSS that later became the CIA. They were also given positions in the space program that later became NASA....and that is a fact. The Third Reich didn't actually lose the war, they simply relocated. The ones that were able to escape to Neuschwabenland (aka Antarctica) used the technology that they were not able to use due to time restraints to strong-arm USA.INC into allowing them to join their fellow Nazis in exchange for amnesty. The alleged ET crafts that flew over the WH in 1952 was an intimidation tactic by the rogue Nazis. They had the technology but not the industrial means, USA.INC had the industrial means but not the technology.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR saved the free world....Great President
> 
> 
> 
> FDR made everyone born after March 9th, 1933 as a surety of the debt via their birth certificate.....how was that a good thing? He made everyone a 14th amendment citizen subject to acts, statutes and codes using Admiralty law instead of the organic Constitution....how did he "free" anyone???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was good for a few hundred million American who retired with enough funds to live their last years with dignity and a level of comfort. That is provable undeniable fact. Seventy plus years of retired people able to collect funding for retirement. Those other things you mention are just speculations and opinions of a political nature and agenda. But those old times collecting monthly checks for over 70 years is fact, not speculation or opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When the birth certificate was monetized, it was put as a worth of 1 million dollars that then turned into 9 million dollars worth of loans with usury attached to it due to fractional reserve banking. With the gold confiscation of the American people that was then stolen by the Fed bankers, our bills were to be essentially paid because we were no longer using money but debt notes so "da gubermint" DID not give anyone anything . The birth certificate bond matures when the "person" (i.e a corporate entity turns 18) and from that point on starts earning real interest for whichever bank purchased it based on your earnings, taxes and other "gubermint" penalties and fees that you pay over your lifetime. They collect the balance on that bond with your death certificate. The bond that was created could only be used as collateral with our permission and that was why the S.S law was put into place...once you signed off on it, you made "da gubermint" the trustee on that bond in exchange for social security, unemployment insurance that was later used to tax you and your employer to fund through an extraction of your labor...so much shit that you don't know and understand and I doubt that you even have the intellect to understand it.
Click to expand...

I understand the method you use to imply intelligence and knowledge that may or may not exist in reality. People who are unable to perform intellectually due to a lack of formal education often delve into fringe beliefs and theories that most are not aware of or even interested in knowing about because they are thought to be wacko goofball stuff. However, becoming an expert on this kind of nonsense gives folks the ability to do exactly what you do. You can always be right and always be more knowledgeable than the other guys  because nobody knows or gives a crap about knowing your expertise. Hence, you are an expert in your own little imaginative world.


----------



## Dale Smith

regent said:


> So when all is said and done, FDR is still rated one of the top three American presidents by conservative historians and number one by the other historians. All the historians being America's best presidential experts. Maybe arguing with historians is not the best way to defame FDR, how about a vision, Stalin appearing at night and telling the truth about FDR, or the discovery of FDR's secret papers?





Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR saved the free world....Great President
> 
> 
> 
> FDR made everyone born after March 9th, 1933 as a surety of the debt via their birth certificate.....how was that a good thing? He made everyone a 14th amendment citizen subject to acts, statutes and codes using Admiralty law instead of the organic Constitution....how did he "free" anyone???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It was good for a few hundred million American who retired with enough funds to live their last years with dignity and a level of comfort. That is provable undeniable fact. Seventy plus years of retired people able to collect funding for retirement. Those other things you mention are just speculations and opinions of a political nature and agenda. But those old times collecting monthly checks for over 70 years is fact, not speculation or opinion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> When the birth certificate was monetized, it was put as a worth of 1 million dollars that then turned into 9 million dollars worth of loans with usury attached to it due to fractional reserve banking. With the gold confiscation of the American people that was then stolen by the Fed bankers, our bills were to be essentially paid because we were no longer using money but debt notes so "da gubermint" DID not give anyone anything . The birth certificate bond matures when the "person" (i.e a corporate entity turns 18) and from that point on starts earning real interest for whichever bank purchased it based on your earnings, taxes and other "gubermint" penalties and fees that you pay over your lifetime. They collect the balance on that bond with your death certificate. The bond that was created could only be used as collateral with our permission and that was why the S.S law was put into place...once you signed off on it, you made "da gubermint" the trustee on that bond in exchange for social security, unemployment insurance that was later used to tax you and your employer to fund through an extraction of your labor...so much shit that you don't know and understand and I doubt that you even have the intellect to understand it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I understand the method you use to imply intelligence and knowledge that may or may not exist in reality. People who are unable to perform intellectually due to a lack of formal education often delve into fringe beliefs and theories that most are not aware of or even interested in knowing about because they are thought to be wacko goofball stuff. However, becoming an expert on this kind of nonsense gives folks the ability to do exactly what you do. You can always be right and always be more knowledgeable than the other guys  because nobody knows or gives a crap about knowing your expertise. Hence, you are an expert in your own little imaginative world.
Click to expand...


You would be 100 percent wrong on this. I have spent thousands upon thousands of hours researching and vetting information because this is my passion. I threw off the "left versus right" paradigm a long time ago...you cling to it because ideology is more precious to you than facts. You cling to a belief because that is what you have been trained to believe...critical thinking be damned. The information is out there to enlighten people but you have to do due diligence and you have to have a true passion for it and I do. I care about everyone and I see how we have been deceived, used and manipulated. The sweat of our brow has been stolen while the elites have used the machinations of the financial system that they control to buy up assets using a worthless fiat currency while leaving us to fend for scraps. I understand more than you could even fathom. I started and studied from the inception of the Virginia Company of the 1600's of America to where we got to today. The history we were taught was a 100 percent total lie because the victors are the ones that get to write the history and change it to benefit them....yeah, I know quite a bit and I am trying to share what I have learned. There have been many that have done the heavy lifting that gave me some starting points and I took it from there. People like Eustace Mullins, Ezra Pound, William Still, Antony Sutton, Jordan Maxwell, Dr John Coleman, Eric Jon Phelps and many other others gave me a map to search for the real truth and not the bullshit that has been taught to us by a public educational system that has the goal of teaching us what to think instead of how to think.....I have a very good grasp as to what has been done to us.


----------



## gipper

Camp said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a 65-year-old 2nd generation east European who grew up with first-hand stories of the USSR as well as grandparents and other relatives that survived the Great Depression and a father and several uncles and 2nd cousins who fought in WWII. Our homes were always full of immigrants escaping from the USSR during the Cold War. I knew more about Stalin and the USSR as a child than you know as an adult.
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is too funny even coming from you...you don't know anyone who learned the truth about Stalin's Stooge in the public schools...hahahahhaha.....................Do you know why?  Because the public schools don't teach the truth, you silly uninformed FDR sycophant.
> 
> Glad you can see that politicians today are epic liars.  We can agree on that, but unlike you I realize that this is nothing new.  Unfortunately, you can't see it in FDR, who was a much greatly liar who caused tremendous death and suffering.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It could also be that public schools don't like to teach wacko right wing conspiracy theories.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Means nothing.  FDR is still Stalin's Stooge and a disgusting corrupt a-hole.
> 
> And...There is no way you know more about Stalin than I do.  You prove it all time in your posts.  I studied him and your boy friend FDR, for decades...and I can match your immigrant shit too.  My wife's entire family are Lithuanians.  Most were murdered in cold blood by FDR's best bud in Moscow.  My father and many other relatives fought in WWII, luckily FDR did not succeed in murdering any of them, but many close calls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Labas, have you been to Lituva? Vilnius has a wonderful old town of cobblestone streets and medieval  buildings that escaped destruction during WWll. There is a great museum/bookstore a block away from the National Assembly that focuses on WWII and post-war relations with the USSR. It is a small hole in the wall kind of place that is easy to miss. Not as large as the Museum of Soviet Occupation in Riga, Latvia, but you can often meet with an author at the Vilnius location. Look for anything written or edited by Dalia Kuodyte.
> The WWII Museum in Kaunas is also very interesting.
> The formal title to what I refer to as a museum and bookstore in Vilnius is The Genocide and Resistance Research Centre of Lithuania.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Labas to you.
> 
> Yes my wife, her father and brothers have been back.  Her father went in the mid-90s.  It was the first time he returned since he fled Stalin's murderous gangs during the war.  He told me of many terrible incidents in which he was nearly murdered by crazy drunk Russian troops.  He had four brothers and three sisters.  Only two survived Stalin's death camps.  His father was beaten to death by Russian troops because he did not know where his sons were.  His mother was raped repeatedly and left for dead by FDR's buddies.  My father in-law would not learn of these horrors until the mid-60s, when a letter managed to get through the Iron Curtain censors.
> 
> The horrors of FDR's war caused by his Uncle Joe, are unknown to most Americans.
> 
> He was held at a DP camp in western Germany at wars end.  Mrs. Roosevelt came to the camp to tell all to return to their homelands and not to fear Uncle Joe.  All laughed at her and thankfully ignored her stupid lies.  Even she was a prolific liar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The Lithuanians favored the Nazi's and the Russians viewed them as collaborators. Many east European nations fought alongside the Nazi's on the eastern front against Russia. Poland was the country that got screwed, but most of the rest were just viewed as Nazi collaborators.
> Often overlooked is that Lithuania had a viable resistance against the Soviets after the war that stymied Russian colonization/immigration. The result is that today the percentage of ethnic Russians are far lower in Lietuva than the other Baltic countries of Latvia and Estonia and Belarus, Ukraine, etc. They fought in the forest until 1953. It was actually one of the longest guerrilla wars in Europe in the 20th Century (Kuodyte and Tracivskis "The Unknown War" 2006).
Click to expand...

Very true.


----------



## Camp

The anti-FDR folks have some words, theories and opinions of varying degrees of subjective speculation and sometimes, maybe often, just outright lies and trash talk hateful speech.
In between this threads obsessive anti-FDR post, despite it being called FDR ADMIRATION SOCIETY, I am attempting to post links of why I admire the era and politics of FDR. These links are to things that can be physically seen, heard, felt, touched and used in positive ways. They are the tangibles of the FDR legacy. Things that can not be argued of debated about positivity, worth and value.
History from the University of North Carolina
docsouth.unc.edu/blueridgeparkway/about/about_parkway/parkway/


Short three minute video of the Parkway from a travel company
youtube.com/watch?v=0B7KsNreilI


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact is, that by allowing Stalin to set the perimeters...'unconditional surrender,' rather than surrender.....Roosevelt added 200,000 dead and wounded to the American toll.
> 
> Wadda guy, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Haven't we been over this unconditional surrender screed before?
> Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Under what conditions do you believe Hitler would accept surrender?"
> You know, liar, that I never said Hitler would have surrendered.
> Why do you continue to advanced the fib?
> Oh....right....to shield Roosevelt.
> 
> Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr would have.
> 
> "Admiral Wilhelm Canaris. The head of the German Secret Service told Earle there were many sensible German people feeling that Hitler was leading their nation down a destructive path. Admiral Canaris continued that an honorable surrender from the German army to the American forces could be arranged."
> Wilhelm Canaris | Jewish Virtual Library
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hitler would have Canaris strung up by his testicles if he attempted to negotiate on behalf of Germany
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually....Hitler had Canaris hung twice.
> Because Roosevelt wouldn't aid the resistance.....he was bespoken for by Stalin.
> Good to see I've reduced you to basing your views on the Magic 8-Ball....no facts, no education....simply blind obedience to Roosevelt.
> 
> 
> 
> Need the names of a dozen of so other anti-Nazi, anti-communist Germans in the resistance with whom Roosevelt wouldn't allow the Allies to provide support????
> 
> "In a certain sense *there was not a single year between 1933 and 1945 during which there was not some contact or attempt at contact, between the anti-Hitler opposition and either Britain or the Unites States, or both." *The Greatest War Crime
> 
> Wilhelm Canaris
> 
> Franz von Papen
> 
> Colonel General Ludwig Beck Beginning in early 1937,"the first 'cell' of the Resistance Movement" was formed by Ludwig Beck, Army Chief of staff, and Carl Goerdeler, who had just resigned as Mayor of Leipzig as a gesture in defiance of Nazi anti-Semitism (Ritter,_Goerdeler's Struggle_, pp. 35-3G, 75-79). As financial adviser to the Robert Bosch firm of Stuttgart, Goerdeler was sent abroad by his employer "on business" between early 1937 and late 1939 to the U.S., Britain, Switzerland, Palestine and a dozen other countries, making contact with persons interested in the overthrow of Hitler's regime (Ibid, pp. 47, 81, 83, 305, 484; and Hoffmann,_German Resistance_, p. 153). The Greatest War Crime
> 
> 
> Carl Friedrich Goerderler
> 
> Ulrich von Hassell
> 
> Johannes Popitz
> 
> Kurt von Hammerstein
> 
> *Job Wilhelm Georg Erdmann Erwin von Witzleben*(4 December 1881 – 8 August 1944) was aGermanofficer, by 1940 in the rank of aField Marshal(_Generalfeldmarschall_), and army commander in theSecond World War. A leading conspirator in the20 July plot,[1]he was designated to become Commander-in-Chief of theWehrmachtarmed forces in a post-Nazi regimehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_von_Witzleben
> 
> 
> There were lots more....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Smashed you in the kisser with a custard pie, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There were some twenty odd attempts on Hitlers life. Untold conspiracies to unseat him or undermine his authority. The Gestapo was quite adept at sniffing them out and dealing with the perpetrators accordingly
> Admiral Canaris would be no different
Click to expand...



Here's why:

1. Joseph*Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.

Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism *throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.

*He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.



2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*

a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.


b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.*
The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country."                                                     German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


c."Archival evidence indicates that*the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue*long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in*the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White.*The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up*



So.....Stalin forbid contacts with the anti-Nazi, anti-Communist Germans
Roosevelt acquiesced...even though it prolonged the war and created over a hundred thousand US casualties.
German anti-Nazis were hung out to dry.....by Roosevelt.



3. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."


a.Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?

That's right:German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
"The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman



b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).

On page 140, Dulles states"The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.



c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."




Never doubt me.
I'm never wrong.*


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> The anti-FDR folks have some words, theories and opinions of varying degrees of subjective speculation and sometimes, maybe often, just outright lies and trash talk hateful speech.
> In between this threads obsessive anti-FDR post, despite it being called FDR ADMIRATION SOCIETY, I am attempting to post links of why I admire the era and politics of FDR. These links are to things that can be physically seen, heard, felt, touched and used in positive ways. They are the tangibles of the FDR legacy. Things that can not be argued of debated about positivity, worth and value.
> History from the University of North Carolina
> docsouth.unc.edu/blueridgeparkway/about/about_parkway/parkway/
> 
> 
> Short three minute video of the Parkway from a travel company
> youtube.com/watch?v=0B7KsNreilI


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do your own due diligence and then come back and tell me that I am wrong...I shan't hold my breath.
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> But yet weepy leftards like you want a totally unsecured southern border while taking in thousands of un-vetted muslims during this alleged fake war on terrorism. Plenty of stipends, perks and benefits for illegals while we have veterans that can't get treatment, can't find jobs and are homeless. Let me tell ya something, douchebag, FDR goaded Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. The FDR admin cut off oil and steel to Japan while they were warring with China. The Japanese code had been broken a year before the attack and ships were sent there to be sunk. Not only that, they intentionally let sailors die that were tapping out Morse code SOS signals for up to 16 days after Pearl Harbor and never lifted a finger to help them because they needed a high body count and it was all done so Americans would support entering WWII to fight the Nazis that were financed by the banking oligarchs, Wall Street and the corporations that made huge profits off of concentration camp labor. Hitler was a Rothschild agent and he could have never risen to power without the help of monarchs and the good ol' USA.INC's owners....and that is a fact.
> 
> Learn, grow, evolve....I am here to help....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a theory nor is it even up for debate should you do even a little bit of digging...but I understand where you are coming from because you believe that "da gubermint" works for you and has your best interest at heart. I beg to differ. This corporate entity has been bending us over since the early 1970's after they felt that they no longer needed a strong middle class. because it wasn't "sustainable"...that was when the Rockefeller Foundation recruited the liberal stupid fucks into the "environmental movement" and funded them as they screamed that we were killing the earth. The term "theory" means  that it is a systematic explanation of which can never be proven....I have documentation and the quotes of those invloved i this massive con job. Have you done any research about the Act of 1871, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the conditions leading up to it? How about the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy March 9th of 1933 of this corporate entity.......how much do you know...or are you simply one of the booger picking morons that smear their snot on the urinal walls???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you know the answer.
> 
> Leftnutter, Regent, and Camp are statists.  They were indoctrinated by the state, in the government schools, and unfortunately are incapable of over coming that indoctrination.  They are not stupid people, just brainwashed people.
> 
> An easy way to determine if an American is uninformed or brainwashed, is ask them if FDR was a great POTUS.  If they say he was, they have clearly identified themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even conservative historians acknowledge the greatness of FDR
> 
> As does most of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In the face of numerous revelations about *Roosevelt's mistakes, gaffes, bias toward minorities, fiscal misadventures such as Social Security, extending both the Depression and WWII, and love affair with the homicidal killer, Joseph Stalin....*
> 
> 
> ...we still hear that *'historians' *"rated FDR as America's greatest president."
> 
> 
> How much faith should one put into the scribblings of an amanuensis, one who simply takes dictation from a superior, who is *neither objective, nor factual*, in that said 'historian' can choose what to put in and what to leave out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If historians depend on the folks in charge for both income and status, how much faith should be put in the truth of their conclusions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, btw....*who owns academia and almost every avenue of the dissemination of information?*
> Yup....Liberals/Progressives/Democrats.
> 
> *No wonder so many undeserving individuals, read 'FDR' and Obama, get praises heaped upon them.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The answer as to how much to accept the view of said 'historians' is, or course,*"trust, but verify."
> A real President coined that phrase.*
Click to expand...

Frau Braun

Why not continue more with your fantasies about how well the Soviets had it and how Germany was willing to surrender to FDR if only he would listen?

The nations historians pale in comparison to your conspiracy theories


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR had no leverage to negotiate Eastern Euorope. Millions of Red Army troops had control of it
> 
> Now, WESTERN Europe......FDR made its liberation the primary focus of his military strategy and his leading military advisor was responsible for rebuilding it
> 
> FDR saved the free world......Greatest modern president
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lie.
> 
> FDR turned over control of military strategy to Stalin, who demanded that an attack on Germany via Italy and the Adriatic be abandoned, and the furthest point from Eastern Europe.....Normandy....be chosen.
> 
> "his leading military advisor" agreed that Italy was the correct venue...until overruled by Roosevelt and Stalin's spy, Hopkins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That D Day thing really kicked some Nazi ass didn't it?
> 
> While our troops bogged down in Italy
> 
> that FDR really knew his shit
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Excellent.
> As soon as you begin vulgarity, you reveal that you recognize that you are wrong.
> It's one of those tells that are hard to hide.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh Lordy.........I do declare I feel a case of the vapors coming on
> 
> Such offensive language towards Mr Hitler
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You never addressed any of my links, nuthugger.
Click to expand...






.


----------



## regent

gipper said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is that until the Great Depressions, depressions and recessions were thought of as normal and had to run their course. With the Great one, that became scary, revolutions and all that. If any president could have led the nation in another direction it was FDR but that was never his intent. FDR said when elected he would try different things and he did, In 37 and 38 with signs of recovery they were fearful of the economy going in another direction so the New Deal was toned down but it was too quick. There are and were no instruction books on depressions and the only solution we have now is still Keynes.
> Perhaps the difference between the Republican approach and the Democratic one was the Democrats put the American people first; No more expecting kids to go through garbage cans to find something to eat.
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is FDR PROLONGED the Great Depression with his childish and ignorant economic policies.  Then pushed the nation into a disastrous war, to keep his disgusting diseased ass in power.
> 
> Sadly, your government paid historians have failed you once again...but then, you must learn to think for yourself and at this late date, that seems most unlikely.
Click to expand...

I tried the Republican "think history method"  that Republicans encourage people to use but it didn't work. In any case I think I'll just stick with the old "check it out method," I can till spot posters that are using the "think history method" however and they sound pretty stupid.


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do your own due diligence and then come back and tell me that I am wrong...I shan't hold my breath.
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing in your conspiracy theory is even remotely provable. Most of it is not even logical or sensible. Just ramblings like a retard on acid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's not a theory nor is it even up for debate should you do even a little bit of digging...but I understand where you are coming from because you believe that "da gubermint" works for you and has your best interest at heart. I beg to differ. This corporate entity has been bending us over since the early 1970's after they felt that they no longer needed a strong middle class. because it wasn't "sustainable"...that was when the Rockefeller Foundation recruited the liberal stupid fucks into the "environmental movement" and funded them as they screamed that we were killing the earth. The term "theory" means  that it is a systematic explanation of which can never be proven....I have documentation and the quotes of those invloved i this massive con job. Have you done any research about the Act of 1871, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the conditions leading up to it? How about the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy March 9th of 1933 of this corporate entity.......how much do you know...or are you simply one of the booger picking morons that smear their snot on the urinal walls???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think you know the answer.
> 
> Leftnutter, Regent, and Camp are statists.  They were indoctrinated by the state, in the government schools, and unfortunately are incapable of over coming that indoctrination.  They are not stupid people, just brainwashed people.
> 
> An easy way to determine if an American is uninformed or brainwashed, is ask them if FDR was a great POTUS.  If they say he was, they have clearly identified themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even conservative historians acknowledge the greatness of FDR
> 
> As does most of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In the face of numerous revelations about *Roosevelt's mistakes, gaffes, bias toward minorities, fiscal misadventures such as Social Security, extending both the Depression and WWII, and love affair with the homicidal killer, Joseph Stalin....*
> 
> 
> ...we still hear that *'historians' *"rated FDR as America's greatest president."
> 
> 
> How much faith should one put into the scribblings of an amanuensis, one who simply takes dictation from a superior, who is *neither objective, nor factual*, in that said 'historian' can choose what to put in and what to leave out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If historians depend on the folks in charge for both income and status, how much faith should be put in the truth of their conclusions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, btw....*who owns academia and almost every avenue of the dissemination of information?*
> Yup....Liberals/Progressives/Democrats.
> 
> *No wonder so many undeserving individuals, read 'FDR' and Obama, get praises heaped upon them.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The answer as to how much to accept the view of said 'historians' is, or course,*"trust, but verify."
> A real President coined that phrase.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Why not continue more with your fantasies about how well the Soviets had it and how Germany was willing to surrender to FDR if only he would listen?
> 
> The nations historians pale in comparison to your conspiracy theories
Click to expand...



Don't you want to comment on this post?


1. Joseph *Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.

Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism*throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.

*He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.



2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*

a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.


b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.*
The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


c."Archival evidence indicates that*the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue*long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in*the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White.*The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up*



So.....Stalin forbid contacts with the anti-Nazi, anti-Communist Germans
Roosevelt acquiesced...even though it prolonged the war and created over a hundred thousand US casualties.
German anti-Nazis were hung out to dry.....by Roosevelt.



3. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."


a.Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?

That's right:German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
"The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman



b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).

On page 140, Dulles states"The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.



c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."


Never doubt me.
I'm never wrong.*
*



And....how about explaining this: when I pin you Roosevelt boot-lickers to the wall....why do you default to the really stupid "Frau Braun," when I've posted dozens of posts on the hateful six....

...Nazism, communism, Liberalism, socialism, Fascism, and Progressivism?


Why pretend I'm on your side?*


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is that until the Great Depressions, depressions and recessions were thought of as normal and had to run their course. With the Great one, that became scary, revolutions and all that. If any president could have led the nation in another direction it was FDR but that was never his intent. FDR said when elected he would try different things and he did, In 37 and 38 with signs of recovery they were fearful of the economy going in another direction so the New Deal was toned down but it was too quick. There are and were no instruction books on depressions and the only solution we have now is still Keynes.
> Perhaps the difference between the Republican approach and the Democratic one was the Democrats put the American people first; No more expecting kids to go through garbage cans to find something to eat.
> 
> 
> 
> The sad fact is FDR PROLONGED the Great Depression with his childish and ignorant economic policies.  Then pushed the nation into a disastrous war, to keep his disgusting diseased ass in power.
> 
> Sadly, your government paid historians have failed you once again...but then, you must learn to think for yourself and at this late date, that seems most unlikely.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I tried the Republican "think history method"  that Republicans encourage people to use but it didn't work. In any case I think I'll just stick with the old "check it out method," I can till spot posters that are using the "think history method" however and they sound pretty stupid.
Click to expand...




Now....why try to lie like this:""think history method" that Republicans encourage people to use..."

You have never.....never....found any of my posts that are not linked, sourced, accurate and true.




Your comment just took the form of a boomerang, huh?


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do your own due diligence and then come back and tell me that I am wrong...I shan't hold my breath.
> It's not a theory nor is it even up for debate should you do even a little bit of digging...but I understand where you are coming from because you believe that "da gubermint" works for you and has your best interest at heart. I beg to differ. This corporate entity has been bending us over since the early 1970's after they felt that they no longer needed a strong middle class. because it wasn't "sustainable"...that was when the Rockefeller Foundation recruited the liberal stupid fucks into the "environmental movement" and funded them as they screamed that we were killing the earth. The term "theory" means  that it is a systematic explanation of which can never be proven....I have documentation and the quotes of those invloved i this massive con job. Have you done any research about the Act of 1871, Federal Reserve Act of 1913 and the conditions leading up to it? How about the Chapter 11 Bankruptcy March 9th of 1933 of this corporate entity.......how much do you know...or are you simply one of the booger picking morons that smear their snot on the urinal walls???
> 
> 
> 
> I think you know the answer.
> 
> Leftnutter, Regent, and Camp are statists.  They were indoctrinated by the state, in the government schools, and unfortunately are incapable of over coming that indoctrination.  They are not stupid people, just brainwashed people.
> 
> An easy way to determine if an American is uninformed or brainwashed, is ask them if FDR was a great POTUS.  If they say he was, they have clearly identified themselves.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Even conservative historians acknowledge the greatness of FDR
> 
> As does most of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In the face of numerous revelations about *Roosevelt's mistakes, gaffes, bias toward minorities, fiscal misadventures such as Social Security, extending both the Depression and WWII, and love affair with the homicidal killer, Joseph Stalin....*
> 
> 
> ...we still hear that *'historians' *"rated FDR as America's greatest president."
> 
> 
> How much faith should one put into the scribblings of an amanuensis, one who simply takes dictation from a superior, who is *neither objective, nor factual*, in that said 'historian' can choose what to put in and what to leave out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If historians depend on the folks in charge for both income and status, how much faith should be put in the truth of their conclusions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, btw....*who owns academia and almost every avenue of the dissemination of information?*
> Yup....Liberals/Progressives/Democrats.
> 
> *No wonder so many undeserving individuals, read 'FDR' and Obama, get praises heaped upon them.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The answer as to how much to accept the view of said 'historians' is, or course,*"trust, but verify."
> A real President coined that phrase.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Why not continue more with your fantasies about how well the Soviets had it and how Germany was willing to surrender to FDR if only he would listen?
> 
> The nations historians pale in comparison to your conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you want to comment on this post?
> 
> 
> 1. Joseph *Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.
> 
> Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism*throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.
> 
> *He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
> Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*
> 
> a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.
> 
> 
> b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.*
> The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> c."Archival evidence indicates that*the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue*long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in*the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White.*The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
> Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up
> *
> 
> 
> So.....Stalin forbid contacts with the anti-Nazi, anti-Communist Germans
> Roosevelt acquiesced...even though it prolonged the war and created over a hundred thousand US casualties.
> German anti-Nazis were hung out to dry.....by Roosevelt.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
> NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."
> 
> 
> a.Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?
> 
> That's right:German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
> "The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman
> 
> 
> 
> b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
> 
> On page 140, Dulles states"The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
> 
> 
> 
> c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
> 
> 
> Never doubt me.
> I'm never wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And....how about explaining this: when I pin you Roosevelt boot-lickers to the wall....why do you default to the really stupid "Frau Braun," when I've posted dozens of posts on the hateful six....
> 
> ...Nazism, communism, Liberalism, socialism, Fascism, and Progressivism?
> 
> 
> Why pretend I'm on your side?*
Click to expand...


LOL

Political Chic thinks I will actually read that rambling cut and paste crap


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you know the answer.
> 
> Leftnutter, Regent, and Camp are statists.  They were indoctrinated by the state, in the government schools, and unfortunately are incapable of over coming that indoctrination.  They are not stupid people, just brainwashed people.
> 
> An easy way to determine if an American is uninformed or brainwashed, is ask them if FDR was a great POTUS.  If they say he was, they have clearly identified themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Even conservative historians acknowledge the greatness of FDR
> 
> As does most of the world
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> In the face of numerous revelations about *Roosevelt's mistakes, gaffes, bias toward minorities, fiscal misadventures such as Social Security, extending both the Depression and WWII, and love affair with the homicidal killer, Joseph Stalin....*
> 
> 
> ...we still hear that *'historians' *"rated FDR as America's greatest president."
> 
> 
> How much faith should one put into the scribblings of an amanuensis, one who simply takes dictation from a superior, who is *neither objective, nor factual*, in that said 'historian' can choose what to put in and what to leave out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If historians depend on the folks in charge for both income and status, how much faith should be put in the truth of their conclusions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, btw....*who owns academia and almost every avenue of the dissemination of information?*
> Yup....Liberals/Progressives/Democrats.
> 
> *No wonder so many undeserving individuals, read 'FDR' and Obama, get praises heaped upon them.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The answer as to how much to accept the view of said 'historians' is, or course,*"trust, but verify."
> A real President coined that phrase.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Why not continue more with your fantasies about how well the Soviets had it and how Germany was willing to surrender to FDR if only he would listen?
> 
> The nations historians pale in comparison to your conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you want to comment on this post?
> 
> 
> 1. Joseph *Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.
> 
> Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism*throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.
> 
> *He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
> Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*
> 
> a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.
> 
> 
> b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.*
> The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> c."Archival evidence indicates that*the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue*long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in*the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White.*The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
> Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up
> *
> 
> 
> So.....Stalin forbid contacts with the anti-Nazi, anti-Communist Germans
> Roosevelt acquiesced...even though it prolonged the war and created over a hundred thousand US casualties.
> German anti-Nazis were hung out to dry.....by Roosevelt.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
> NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."
> 
> 
> a.Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?
> 
> That's right:German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
> "The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman
> 
> 
> 
> b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
> 
> On page 140, Dulles states"The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
> 
> 
> 
> c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
> 
> 
> Never doubt me.
> I'm never wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And....how about explaining this: when I pin you Roosevelt boot-lickers to the wall....why do you default to the really stupid "Frau Braun," when I've posted dozens of posts on the hateful six....
> 
> ...Nazism, communism, Liberalism, socialism, Fascism, and Progressivism?
> 
> 
> Why pretend I'm on your side?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Political Chic thinks I will actually read that rambling cut and paste crap
Click to expand...


Don't you want to comment on this post?


1. Joseph *Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.

Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism*throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.

*He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.



2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*

a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.


b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.*
The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


c."Archival evidence indicates that*the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue*long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in*the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White.*The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up*



So.....Stalin forbid contacts with the anti-Nazi, anti-Communist Germans
Roosevelt acquiesced...even though it prolonged the war and created over a hundred thousand US casualties.
German anti-Nazis were hung out to dry.....by Roosevelt.



3. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."


a.Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?

That's right:German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
"The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman



b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).

On page 140, Dulles states"The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.



c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."


Never doubt me.
I'm never wrong.



I fully understand the basis of your lie......the post thoroughly destroys your position.

*


----------



## Camp

[QUOTE="PoliticalChic, post: 13632998, member: 12394"

1. Joseph*Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.

Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism *throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.

*He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.
*

Never doubt me.
I'm never wrong.*[/QUOTE]

Well, PoliticalChic is certainly wrong about this claim. He wasn't farsighted about Hilter or FDR. He made a deal with Hitler, before and after which he busily purged his best officers. Hitler turned on him and his lack of farsightedness almost cost him a defeat of the USSR if not for stupid mistakes by Hitler when he ignored the advice of his own military leadership in conducting the war against Stalin. That and the assistance of lend-lease is what kept Stalin alive, not his farsightedness.

World communist domination? The writer indicated that that actually happened. Spreading his international socialism throughout Europe? His brand of socialism was confined to eastern Europe and he had to build walls and barbed wire machine gun protected borders to confine it to his area of occupation.

FDR was the guy with the farsightedness that guided and helped produce the nation that actually reached global dominance, America. The USSR rise to power and military strength was far removed from FDR and not the fault of FDR. He died before WWII ended and the treatment of the Soviets and Stalin after his death lay squarely on the shoulders of Truman and Eisenhower.

Both the concept and conclusion made by the OP are distorted to the point of being nothing more than agenda hackery.


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even conservative historians acknowledge the greatness of FDR
> 
> As does most of the world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the face of numerous revelations about *Roosevelt's mistakes, gaffes, bias toward minorities, fiscal misadventures such as Social Security, extending both the Depression and WWII, and love affair with the homicidal killer, Joseph Stalin....*
> 
> 
> ...we still hear that *'historians' *"rated FDR as America's greatest president."
> 
> 
> How much faith should one put into the scribblings of an amanuensis, one who simply takes dictation from a superior, who is *neither objective, nor factual*, in that said 'historian' can choose what to put in and what to leave out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If historians depend on the folks in charge for both income and status, how much faith should be put in the truth of their conclusions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, btw....*who owns academia and almost every avenue of the dissemination of information?*
> Yup....Liberals/Progressives/Democrats.
> 
> *No wonder so many undeserving individuals, read 'FDR' and Obama, get praises heaped upon them.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The answer as to how much to accept the view of said 'historians' is, or course,*"trust, but verify."
> A real President coined that phrase.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Why not continue more with your fantasies about how well the Soviets had it and how Germany was willing to surrender to FDR if only he would listen?
> 
> The nations historians pale in comparison to your conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you want to comment on this post?
> 
> 
> 1. Joseph *Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.
> 
> Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism*throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.
> 
> *He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
> Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*
> 
> a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.
> 
> 
> b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.*
> The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> c."Archival evidence indicates that*the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue*long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in*the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White.*The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
> Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up
> *
> 
> 
> So.....Stalin forbid contacts with the anti-Nazi, anti-Communist Germans
> Roosevelt acquiesced...even though it prolonged the war and created over a hundred thousand US casualties.
> German anti-Nazis were hung out to dry.....by Roosevelt.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
> NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."
> 
> 
> a.Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?
> 
> That's right:German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
> "The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman
> 
> 
> 
> b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
> 
> On page 140, Dulles states"The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
> 
> 
> 
> c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
> 
> 
> Never doubt me.
> I'm never wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And....how about explaining this: when I pin you Roosevelt boot-lickers to the wall....why do you default to the really stupid "Frau Braun," when I've posted dozens of posts on the hateful six....
> 
> ...Nazism, communism, Liberalism, socialism, Fascism, and Progressivism?
> 
> 
> Why pretend I'm on your side?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Political Chic thinks I will actually read that rambling cut and paste crap
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't you want to comment on this post?
> 
> 
> 1. Joseph *Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.
> 
> Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism*throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.
> 
> *He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
> Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*
> 
> a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.
> 
> 
> b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.*
> The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> c."Archival evidence indicates that*the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue*long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in*the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White.*The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
> Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up
> *
> 
> 
> So.....Stalin forbid contacts with the anti-Nazi, anti-Communist Germans
> Roosevelt acquiesced...even though it prolonged the war and created over a hundred thousand US casualties.
> German anti-Nazis were hung out to dry.....by Roosevelt.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
> NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."
> 
> 
> a.Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?
> 
> That's right:German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
> "The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman
> 
> 
> 
> b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
> 
> On page 140, Dulles states"The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
> 
> 
> 
> c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
> 
> 
> Never doubt me.
> I'm never wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> I fully understand the basis of your lie......the post thoroughly destroys your position.
> *
Click to expand...


Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice....um...um...I won't get fooled again
G W Bush

Been there, done that
Your cut and pastes are not worth the effort


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Operation Gladio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]
> 
> 
> Without the tireless efforts of Franklin Roosevelt, Stalin might not have survived,leaving a free and democratic Russia.....hence no military threat, no Korean War, no Vietnam....
Click to expand...


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the face of numerous revelations about *Roosevelt's mistakes, gaffes, bias toward minorities, fiscal misadventures such as Social Security, extending both the Depression and WWII, and love affair with the homicidal killer, Joseph Stalin....*
> 
> 
> ...we still hear that *'historians' *"rated FDR as America's greatest president."
> 
> 
> How much faith should one put into the scribblings of an amanuensis, one who simply takes dictation from a superior, who is *neither objective, nor factual*, in that said 'historian' can choose what to put in and what to leave out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If historians depend on the folks in charge for both income and status, how much faith should be put in the truth of their conclusions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, btw....*who owns academia and almost every avenue of the dissemination of information?*
> Yup....Liberals/Progressives/Democrats.
> 
> *No wonder so many undeserving individuals, read 'FDR' and Obama, get praises heaped upon them.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The answer as to how much to accept the view of said 'historians' is, or course,*"trust, but verify."
> A real President coined that phrase.*
> 
> 
> 
> Frau Braun
> 
> Why not continue more with your fantasies about how well the Soviets had it and how Germany was willing to surrender to FDR if only he would listen?
> 
> The nations historians pale in comparison to your conspiracy theories
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you want to comment on this post?
> 
> 
> 1. Joseph *Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.
> 
> Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism*throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.
> 
> *He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
> Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*
> 
> a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.
> 
> 
> b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.*
> The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> c."Archival evidence indicates that*the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue*long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in*the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White.*The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
> Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up
> *
> 
> 
> So.....Stalin forbid contacts with the anti-Nazi, anti-Communist Germans
> Roosevelt acquiesced...even though it prolonged the war and created over a hundred thousand US casualties.
> German anti-Nazis were hung out to dry.....by Roosevelt.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
> NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."
> 
> 
> a.Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?
> 
> That's right:German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
> "The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman
> 
> 
> 
> b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
> 
> On page 140, Dulles states"The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
> 
> 
> 
> c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
> 
> 
> Never doubt me.
> I'm never wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And....how about explaining this: when I pin you Roosevelt boot-lickers to the wall....why do you default to the really stupid "Frau Braun," when I've posted dozens of posts on the hateful six....
> 
> ...Nazism, communism, Liberalism, socialism, Fascism, and Progressivism?
> 
> 
> Why pretend I'm on your side?*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> Political Chic thinks I will actually read that rambling cut and paste crap
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Don't you want to comment on this post?
> 
> 
> 1. Joseph *Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.
> 
> Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism*throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.
> 
> *He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
> Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*
> 
> a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.
> 
> 
> b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.*
> The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> c."Archival evidence indicates that*the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue*long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in*the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White.*The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
> Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up
> *
> 
> 
> So.....Stalin forbid contacts with the anti-Nazi, anti-Communist Germans
> Roosevelt acquiesced...even though it prolonged the war and created over a hundred thousand US casualties.
> German anti-Nazis were hung out to dry.....by Roosevelt.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
> NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."
> 
> 
> a.Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?
> 
> That's right:German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
> "The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman
> 
> 
> 
> b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).
> 
> On page 140, Dulles states"The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.
> 
> 
> 
> c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."
> 
> 
> Never doubt me.
> I'm never wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> I fully understand the basis of your lie......the post thoroughly destroys your position.
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fool me once, shame on you
> Fool me twice....um...um...I won't get fooled again
> G W Bush
> 
> Been there, done that
> Your cut and pastes are not worth the effort
Click to expand...




Stop lying.


PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Operation Gladio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]
> 
> 
> Without the tireless efforts of Franklin Roosevelt, Stalin might not have survived,leaving a free and democratic Russia.....hence no military threat, no Korean War, no Vietnam....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Operation Gladio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]
> 
> 
> Without the tireless efforts of Franklin Roosevelt, Stalin might not have survived,leaving a free and democratic Russia.....hence no military threat, no Korean War, no Vietnam....
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]


----------



## PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Operation Gladio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]
> 
> 
> Without the tireless efforts of Franklin Roosevelt, Stalin might not have survived,leaving a free and democratic Russia.....hence no military threat, no Korean War, no Vietnam....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]


Luckily for all, Truman stopped the military aggression that Roosevelt encouraged...
Truman formed NATO


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Even conservative historians acknowledge the greatness of FDR
> 
> As does most of the world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
> Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*
> 
> a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.
> 
> 
> b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at pr"
> 
> 
> Never doubt me.
> I'm never wrong.
> 
> *
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There were other reasons for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Here the FDR/New Deal hater shows her lack of WWII history knowledge. Most of the resistance in Germany was impacted and influenced by the socialist and communist that escaped capture and annihilation. Like the resistance groups in the Nazi-occupied countries, the resistance people would have great influence and impact after the Nazi's were defeated.  SHAEF wanted to limit the size and scope of the resistance that would be confronted after that defeat. Assistance to them during the war would only strengthen the communist contingent after the wars end. 
Of course, add to these factors the one that the resistance in other countries were not German, rather peoples who were living under occupation of a brutal foreign military occupation, to the fact that what the OP is suggesting is a scenario that puts the resistance in Germany one of entering into a civil war and killing their fellow countrymen. No one at SHAEF viewed that as a viable concept or possibility.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
> Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*
> 
> a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.
> 
> 
> b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at pr"
> 
> 
> Never doubt me.
> I'm never wrong.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were other reasons for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here the FDR/New Deal hater shows her lack of WWII history knowledge. Most of the resistance in Germany was impacted and influenced by the socialist and communist that escaped capture and annihilation. Like the resistance groups in the Nazi-occupied countries, the resistance people would have great influence and impact after the Nazi's were defeated.  SHAEF wanted to limit the size and scope of the resistance that would be confronted after that defeat. Assistance to them during the war would only strengthen the communist contingent after the wars end.
> Of course, add to these factors the one that the resistance in other countries were not German, rather peoples who were living under occupation of a brutal foreign military occupation, to the fact that what the OP is suggesting is a scenario that puts the resistance in Germany one of entering into a civil war and killing their fellow countrymen. No one at SHAEF viewed that as a viable concept or possibility.
Click to expand...




I sure hope folks read your post.....and this:
1. Joseph *Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt.*He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.

Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of *international socialism*throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.

*He used America *and the Allies for this purpose....*FDR made it easy* to do that.



2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*

a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.


b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.*
The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


c."Archival evidence indicates that*the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue*long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in*the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White.*The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up*



So.....Stalin forbid contacts with the anti-Nazi, anti-Communist Germans
Roosevelt acquiesced...even though it prolonged the war and created over a hundred thousand US casualties.
German anti-Nazis were hung out to dry.....by Roosevelt.



3. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."


a.Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?

That's right:German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
"The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman



b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of thatthe German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).

On page 140, Dulles states"The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.



c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."


My post is linked and documented, and yours is simply lies and hot air by a Roosevelt boot-licker.*


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation..*..except Germany.
> Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.*
> 
> a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance.*Following the Soviet orders,*only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war;*the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies,*would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.
> 
> 
> b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force)*directive prohibited activities aimed at pr"
> 
> 
> Never doubt me.
> I'm never wrong.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were other reasons for
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here the FDR/New Deal hater shows her lack of WWII history knowledge. Most of the resistance in Germany was impacted and influenced by the socialist and communist that escaped capture and annihilation. Like the resistance groups in the Nazi-occupied countries, the resistance people would have great influence and impact after the Nazi's were defeated.  SHAEF wanted to limit the size and scope of the resistance that would be confronted after that defeat. Assistance to them during the war would only strengthen the communist contingent after the wars end.
> Of course, add to these factors the one that the resistance in other countries were not German, rather peoples who were living under occupation of a brutal foreign military occupation, to the fact that what the OP is suggesting is a scenario that puts the resistance in Germany one of entering into a civil war and killing their fellow countrymen. No one at SHAEF viewed that as a viable concept or possibility.
Click to expand...


The "New Deal" was no great deal at all. FDR and his banker pals abused the public trust when they created and registered millions of foreign situs trusts named after each of us. Under their own diversity of citizenship rules, corporations are considered to be “US citizens”. So they created all these foreign situs trusts as franchises of their own bankrupt corporation, and placed commercial liens against our names as chattel owned by their corporation and standing as surety for its debts. A group of thugs elected to political office grossly transgressed against the American people and the American states and committed the crime of personage against each and every one of us without us ever being aware of it. They couldn't enslave the "man on the land" but they could the corporate fiction that they created with the birth certificate that they then created a bond out of and made themselves the trustee of it using actuary tables to get an idea on what you would earn over your lifetime....and then borrowed against it...your sweat equity was put up to the highest bidder....in return, you got "privileges" and a pittance of what the bond would pay in S.S and unemployment "benefits". They claimed that we all knew about this arrangement and consented to it, because we “voluntarily” gave up our gold when FDR said we had to under the penalty of a huge fine and imprisonment. By signing the Social Security card, you gave them consent to do with your bond whatever they wanted. It's called "pledging" and it is an ancient form of debt slavery.

It was an intentional national system designed to keep track of the people.  Every American was basically forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living and this is the legacy left by FDR and his New (snicker) Deal...I call it a swindle but what do I know? I just spend thousands upon thousands of hours reading and listening to lectures from accredited researchers that dedicated theirs live figuring out how things got so fucked up


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were other reasons for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here the FDR/New Deal hater shows her lack of WWII history knowledge. Most of the resistance in Germany was impacted and influenced by the socialist and communist that escaped capture and annihilation. Like the resistance groups in the Nazi-occupied countries, the resistance people would have great influence and impact after the Nazi's were defeated.  SHAEF wanted to limit the size and scope of the resistance that would be confronted after that defeat. Assistance to them during the war would only strengthen the communist contingent after the wars end.
> Of course, add to these factors the one that the resistance in other countries were not German, rather peoples who were living under occupation of a brutal foreign military occupation, to the fact that what the OP is suggesting is a scenario that puts the resistance in Germany one of entering into a civil war and killing their fellow countrymen. No one at SHAEF viewed that as a viable concept or possibility.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The "New Deal" was no great deal at all. FDR and his banker pals abused the public trust when they created and registered millions of foreign situs trusts named after each of us. Under their own diversity of citizenship rules, corporations are considered to be “US citizens”. So they created all these foreign situs trusts as franchises of their own bankrupt corporation, and placed commercial liens against our names as chattel owned by their corporation and standing as surety for its debts. A group of thugs elected to political office grossly transgressed against the American people and the American states and committed the crime of personage against each and every one of us without us ever being aware of it. They couldn't enslave the "man on the land" but they could the corporate fiction that they created with the birth certificate that they then created a bond out of and made themselves the trustee of it using actuary tables to get an idea on what you would earn over your lifetime....and then borrowed against it...your sweat equity was put up to the highest bidder....in return, you got "privileges" and a pittance of what the bond would pay in S.S and unemployment "benefits". They claimed that we all knew about this arrangement and consented to it, because we “voluntarily” gave up our gold when FDR said we had to under the penalty of a huge fine and imprisonment. By signing the Social Security card, you gave them consent to do with your bond whatever they wanted. It's called "pledging" and it is an ancient form of debt slavery.
> 
> It was an intentional national system designed to keep track of the people.  Every American was basically forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living and this is the legacy left by FDR and his New (snicker) Deal...I call it a swindle but what do I know? I just spend thousands upon thousands of hours reading and listening to lectures from accredited researchers that dedicated theirs live figuring out how things got so fucked up
Click to expand...

Dale, there are different ways and methods of sourcing history books, articles and theses. Some of the methods, the ones used by scholarly histories and are recognized as such, use time consuming and frustrating vetting methods. They examine quotes and sources to see where the quotes came from and whether they are used in context. A history that is written without this kind of careful vetting of a source is tarnished and contaminated to the point that is not taken seriously by academic's. A quoted source from a blogger quoting another blogger is not a valid source to use in for example, submitting a thesis for a doctorate degree. It would invalidate the thesis and be returned with a failing grade. Written histories are supposed to be writings of indisputable facts which support the writers explanation of why and how those indisputable facts are used to form conclusions. The conclusions can be argued, but rarely can the facts used.  Conspiracy theories are based on conclusions reached by speculative and subjective opinions without providing the detailed vetting to prove the conclusions of the writer. That is why so many folks reject them as anything more than interesting entertainment and commentary.


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the FDR/New Deal hater shows her lack of WWII history knowledge. Most of the resistance in Germany was impacted and influenced by the socialist and communist that escaped capture and annihilation. Like the resistance groups in the Nazi-occupied countries, the resistance people would have great influence and impact after the Nazi's were defeated.  SHAEF wanted to limit the size and scope of the resistance that would be confronted after that defeat. Assistance to them during the war would only strengthen the communist contingent after the wars end.
> Of course, add to these factors the one that the resistance in other countries were not German, rather peoples who were living under occupation of a brutal foreign military occupation, to the fact that what the OP is suggesting is a scenario that puts the resistance in Germany one of entering into a civil war and killing their fellow countrymen. No one at SHAEF viewed that as a viable concept or possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "New Deal" was no great deal at all. FDR and his banker pals abused the public trust when they created and registered millions of foreign situs trusts named after each of us. Under their own diversity of citizenship rules, corporations are considered to be “US citizens”. So they created all these foreign situs trusts as franchises of their own bankrupt corporation, and placed commercial liens against our names as chattel owned by their corporation and standing as surety for its debts. A group of thugs elected to political office grossly transgressed against the American people and the American states and committed the crime of personage against each and every one of us without us ever being aware of it. They couldn't enslave the "man on the land" but they could the corporate fiction that they created with the birth certificate that they then created a bond out of and made themselves the trustee of it using actuary tables to get an idea on what you would earn over your lifetime....and then borrowed against it...your sweat equity was put up to the highest bidder....in return, you got "privileges" and a pittance of what the bond would pay in S.S and unemployment "benefits". They claimed that we all knew about this arrangement and consented to it, because we “voluntarily” gave up our gold when FDR said we had to under the penalty of a huge fine and imprisonment. By signing the Social Security card, you gave them consent to do with your bond whatever they wanted. It's called "pledging" and it is an ancient form of debt slavery.
> 
> It was an intentional national system designed to keep track of the people.  Every American was basically forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living and this is the legacy left by FDR and his New (snicker) Deal...I call it a swindle but what do I know? I just spend thousands upon thousands of hours reading and listening to lectures from accredited researchers that dedicated theirs live figuring out how things got so fucked up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dale, there are different ways and methods of sourcing history books, articles and theses. Some of the methods, the ones used by scholarly histories and are recognized as such, use time consuming and frustrating vetting methods. They examine quotes and sources to see where the quotes came from and whether they are used in context. A history that is written without this kind of careful vetting of a source is tarnished and contaminated to the point that is not taken seriously by academic's. A quoted source from a blogger quoting another blogger is not a valid source to use in for example, submitting a thesis for a doctorate degree. It would invalidate the thesis and be returned with a failing grade. Written histories are supposed to be writings of indisputable facts which support the writers explanation of why and how those indisputable facts are used to form conclusions. The conclusions can be argued, but rarely can the facts used.  Conspiracy theories are based on conclusions reached by speculative and subjective opinions without providing the detailed vetting to prove the conclusions of the writer. That is why so many folks reject them as anything more than interesting entertainment and commentary.
Click to expand...


My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
​


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the FDR/New Deal hater shows her lack of WWII history knowledge. Most of the resistance in Germany was impacted and influenced by the socialist and communist that escaped capture and annihilation. Like the resistance groups in the Nazi-occupied countries, the resistance people would have great influence and impact after the Nazi's were defeated.  SHAEF wanted to limit the size and scope of the resistance that would be confronted after that defeat. Assistance to them during the war would only strengthen the communist contingent after the wars end.
> Of course, add to these factors the one that the resistance in other countries were not German, rather peoples who were living under occupation of a brutal foreign military occupation, to the fact that what the OP is suggesting is a scenario that puts the resistance in Germany one of entering into a civil war and killing their fellow countrymen. No one at SHAEF viewed that as a viable concept or possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "New Deal" was no great deal at all. FDR and his banker pals abused the public trust when they created and registered millions of foreign situs trusts named after each of us. Under their own diversity of citizenship rules, corporations are considered to be “US citizens”. So they created all these foreign situs trusts as franchises of their own bankrupt corporation, and placed commercial liens against our names as chattel owned by their corporation and standing as surety for its debts. A group of thugs elected to political office grossly transgressed against the American people and the American states and committed the crime of personage against each and every one of us without us ever being aware of it. They couldn't enslave the "man on the land" but they could the corporate fiction that they created with the birth certificate that they then created a bond out of and made themselves the trustee of it using actuary tables to get an idea on what you would earn over your lifetime....and then borrowed against it...your sweat equity was put up to the highest bidder....in return, you got "privileges" and a pittance of what the bond would pay in S.S and unemployment "benefits". They claimed that we all knew about this arrangement and consented to it, because we “voluntarily” gave up our gold when FDR said we had to under the penalty of a huge fine and imprisonment. By signing the Social Security card, you gave them consent to do with your bond whatever they wanted. It's called "pledging" and it is an ancient form of debt slavery.
> 
> It was an intentional national system designed to keep track of the people.  Every American was basically forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living and this is the legacy left by FDR and his New (snicker) Deal...I call it a swindle but what do I know? I just spend thousands upon thousands of hours reading and listening to lectures from accredited researchers that dedicated theirs live figuring out how things got so fucked up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dale, there are different ways and methods of sourcing history books, articles and theses. Some of the methods, the ones used by scholarly histories and are recognized as such, use time consuming and frustrating vetting methods. They examine quotes and sources to see where the quotes came from and whether they are used in context. A history that is written without this kind of careful vetting of a source is tarnished and contaminated to the point that is not taken seriously by academic's. A quoted source from a blogger quoting another blogger is not a valid source to use in for example, submitting a thesis for a doctorate degree. It would invalidate the thesis and be returned with a failing grade. Written histories are supposed to be writings of indisputable facts which support the writers explanation of why and how those indisputable facts are used to form conclusions. The conclusions can be argued, but rarely can the facts used.  Conspiracy theories are based on conclusions reached by speculative and subjective opinions without providing the detailed vetting to prove the conclusions of the writer. That is why so many folks reject them as anything more than interesting entertainment and commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
> ​
Click to expand...

You had a similar discussion about your sources in the past. You listed a number of writers you studied. I looked them all up and not a single one qualified as an accepted historian. They were all conspiracy writers known for books about the JFK assassination, 911 and even aliens. None of them were known for academically researched scholarly histories.
A quick review of PoliticalChic's distortion of actual quotes shows how easy it is to twist facts and assemble them into what may appear to be academic research to the unaware, but is actually a rather routine method of disinformation distribution. Your postings don't even reach that level of sophistication. There is no way for the reader to even attempt a validation of your claims. At least, with PoliticalChic, there is a reference point to use to focus on debunking or critiquing. Your postings use data that just falls into the unknown source category. Your views are based on faith and seemingly faith alone. It is OK for you to have that faith, but unfair and unreasonable to expect others to do the same.


----------



## Camp

The TVA is one of the huge projects of the New Deal. The Tennessee Vally at the beginning of the only provided electricity to 2% of the population, making it the poorest region in America. Within a few years, 30 dams were built that brought electricity to 75% of the population. Of course, along with the electricity came factories and jobs for the long-range benefits of the program.

www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1653.html


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the FDR/New Deal hater shows her lack of WWII history knowledge. Most of the resistance in Germany was impacted and influenced by the socialist and communist that escaped capture and annihilation. Like the resistance groups in the Nazi-occupied countries, the resistance people would have great influence and impact after the Nazi's were defeated.  SHAEF wanted to limit the size and scope of the resistance that would be confronted after that defeat. Assistance to them during the war would only strengthen the communist contingent after the wars end.
> Of course, add to these factors the one that the resistance in other countries were not German, rather peoples who were living under occupation of a brutal foreign military occupation, to the fact that what the OP is suggesting is a scenario that puts the resistance in Germany one of entering into a civil war and killing their fellow countrymen. No one at SHAEF viewed that as a viable concept or possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "New Deal" was no great deal at all. FDR and his banker pals abused the public trust when they created and registered millions of foreign situs trusts named after each of us. Under their own diversity of citizenship rules, corporations are considered to be “US citizens”. So they created all these foreign situs trusts as franchises of their own bankrupt corporation, and placed commercial liens against our names as chattel owned by their corporation and standing as surety for its debts. A group of thugs elected to political office grossly transgressed against the American people and the American states and committed the crime of personage against each and every one of us without us ever being aware of it. They couldn't enslave the "man on the land" but they could the corporate fiction that they created with the birth certificate that they then created a bond out of and made themselves the trustee of it using actuary tables to get an idea on what you would earn over your lifetime....and then borrowed against it...your sweat equity was put up to the highest bidder....in return, you got "privileges" and a pittance of what the bond would pay in S.S and unemployment "benefits". They claimed that we all knew about this arrangement and consented to it, because we “voluntarily” gave up our gold when FDR said we had to under the penalty of a huge fine and imprisonment. By signing the Social Security card, you gave them consent to do with your bond whatever they wanted. It's called "pledging" and it is an ancient form of debt slavery.
> 
> It was an intentional national system designed to keep track of the people.  Every American was basically forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living and this is the legacy left by FDR and his New (snicker) Deal...I call it a swindle but what do I know? I just spend thousands upon thousands of hours reading and listening to lectures from accredited researchers that dedicated theirs live figuring out how things got so fucked up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dale, there are different ways and methods of sourcing history books, articles and theses. Some of the methods, the ones used by scholarly histories and are recognized as such, use time consuming and frustrating vetting methods. They examine quotes and sources to see where the quotes came from and whether they are used in context. A history that is written without this kind of careful vetting of a source is tarnished and contaminated to the point that is not taken seriously by academic's. A quoted source from a blogger quoting another blogger is not a valid source to use in for example, submitting a thesis for a doctorate degree. It would invalidate the thesis and be returned with a failing grade. Written histories are supposed to be writings of indisputable facts which support the writers explanation of why and how those indisputable facts are used to form conclusions. The conclusions can be argued, but rarely can the facts used.  Conspiracy theories are based on conclusions reached by speculative and subjective opinions without providing the detailed vetting to prove the conclusions of the writer. That is why so many folks reject them as anything more than interesting entertainment and commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You had a similar discussion about your sources in the past. You listed a number of writers you studied. I looked them all up and not a single one qualified as an accepted historian. They were all conspiracy writers known for books about the JFK assassination, 911 and even aliens. None of them were known for academically researched scholarly histories.
> A quick review of PoliticalChic's distortion of actual quotes shows how easy it is to twist facts and assemble them into what may appear to be academic research to the unaware, but is actually a rather routine method of disinformation distribution. Your postings don't even reach that level of sophistication. There is no way for the reader to even attempt a validation of your claims. At least, with PoliticalChic, there is a reference point to use to focus on debunking or critiquing. Your postings use data that just falls into the unknown source category. Your views are based on faith and seemingly faith alone. It is OK for you to have that faith, but unfair and unreasonable to expect others to do the same.
Click to expand...


Antony Sutton? Jim Marrs? Dr.John Coleman?  Antony Sutton worked for the Hoover Institute and when he came up with disturbing information tying the military industrial complex to providing military equipment to Russia that then in turn sent it to the Viet Cong that then used it against our soldiers? That is a fact. Jim Marrs is one of the best investigative journalists of our time and especially when it comes to the public murder of JFK...or do you buy the "official story"...because if you do, you are beyond any kind of help. Dr. John Coleman was part of MI5 and MI6 and he had access to many records and was privy to many secret documents that proved that USA.INC has a shadow government. As far as the debt system that is the Federal Reserve banking system that has made us surety on the debt? Holy shit, dude...there is more than enough documents out there that prove it. Your all caps fiction on every bill you get, any citation notification that you get in the mail, your all caps name on your birth certificate, driver's license, social security card, your banking statement is always in "all caps" because they are wanting you to contract with your all caps fiction. I have been able to maneuver around their acts, statutes and codes because I have educated myself on Admiralty law and the remedies. I got out of their UCC system by filing a few simple forms and reclaimed my pre 14th amendment "citizenship". You are an indentured debt slave......your sweat equity is pledged as a surety on the Chapter 11 bankruptcy Act of 1933...and that is a fact....do some research and prove me  that I am wrong.......you can't but I dare ya to try.


----------



## Camp

jimmars.com

Why did you  find my posting a link about the TVA funny Dale?


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> jimmars.com
> 
> Why did you  find my posting a link about the TVA funny Dale?


 Because FDR was a 100 % sellout????? Start there.........


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> jimmars.com
> 
> Why did you  find my posting a link about the TVA funny Dale?
> 
> 
> 
> Because FDR was a 100 % sellout????? Start there.........
Click to expand...

No, it is an indication that you are a hater and your claims to be interested in debate are just a bullshitter promoting his anti-government delusional conspiracy theories. Unable to start a thread of your own that would obtain and maintain interest and attention, you are simply riding the coat tails of another by hijacking a thread.  A doomsday prophet stuck in the paranoid world of no nothing nut jobs.
Anyone who is offended and objects to a program that brought electricity, clean water, prevented disease and brought jobs to millions of the poorest Americans in the country has something wrong with them. What is really outrageous is that the states that benefitted paid for everything themselves via loans made to them by the federal government. All FDR did was make the loans available and offer his guidance.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the FDR/New Deal hater shows her lack of WWII history knowledge. Most of the resistance in Germany was impacted and influenced by the socialist and communist that escaped capture and annihilation. Like the resistance groups in the Nazi-occupied countries, the resistance people would have great influence and impact after the Nazi's were defeated.  SHAEF wanted to limit the size and scope of the resistance that would be confronted after that defeat. Assistance to them during the war would only strengthen the communist contingent after the wars end.
> Of course, add to these factors the one that the resistance in other countries were not German, rather peoples who were living under occupation of a brutal foreign military occupation, to the fact that what the OP is suggesting is a scenario that puts the resistance in Germany one of entering into a civil war and killing their fellow countrymen. No one at SHAEF viewed that as a viable concept or possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "New Deal" was no great deal at all. FDR and his banker pals abused the public trust when they created and registered millions of foreign situs trusts named after each of us. Under their own diversity of citizenship rules, corporations are considered to be “US citizens”. So they created all these foreign situs trusts as franchises of their own bankrupt corporation, and placed commercial liens against our names as chattel owned by their corporation and standing as surety for its debts. A group of thugs elected to political office grossly transgressed against the American people and the American states and committed the crime of personage against each and every one of us without us ever being aware of it. They couldn't enslave the "man on the land" but they could the corporate fiction that they created with the birth certificate that they then created a bond out of and made themselves the trustee of it using actuary tables to get an idea on what you would earn over your lifetime....and then borrowed against it...your sweat equity was put up to the highest bidder....in return, you got "privileges" and a pittance of what the bond would pay in S.S and unemployment "benefits". They claimed that we all knew about this arrangement and consented to it, because we “voluntarily” gave up our gold when FDR said we had to under the penalty of a huge fine and imprisonment. By signing the Social Security card, you gave them consent to do with your bond whatever they wanted. It's called "pledging" and it is an ancient form of debt slavery.
> 
> It was an intentional national system designed to keep track of the people.  Every American was basically forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living and this is the legacy left by FDR and his New (snicker) Deal...I call it a swindle but what do I know? I just spend thousands upon thousands of hours reading and listening to lectures from accredited researchers that dedicated theirs live figuring out how things got so fucked up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dale, there are different ways and methods of sourcing history books, articles and theses. Some of the methods, the ones used by scholarly histories and are recognized as such, use time consuming and frustrating vetting methods. They examine quotes and sources to see where the quotes came from and whether they are used in context. A history that is written without this kind of careful vetting of a source is tarnished and contaminated to the point that is not taken seriously by academic's. A quoted source from a blogger quoting another blogger is not a valid source to use in for example, submitting a thesis for a doctorate degree. It would invalidate the thesis and be returned with a failing grade. Written histories are supposed to be writings of indisputable facts which support the writers explanation of why and how those indisputable facts are used to form conclusions. The conclusions can be argued, but rarely can the facts used.  Conspiracy theories are based on conclusions reached by speculative and subjective opinions without providing the detailed vetting to prove the conclusions of the writer. That is why so many folks reject them as anything more than interesting entertainment and commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
> ​
Click to expand...



That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!

Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> jimmars.com
> 
> Why did you  find my posting a link about the TVA funny Dale?
> 
> 
> 
> Because FDR was a 100 % sellout????? Start there.........
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No, it is an indication that you are a hater and your claims to be interested in debate are just a bullshitter promoting his anti-government delusional conspiracy theories. Unable to start a thread of your own that would obtain and maintain interest and attention, you are simply riding the coat tails of another by hijacking a thread.  A doomsday prophet stuck in the paranoid world of no nothing nut jobs.
> Anyone who is offended and objects to a program that brought electricity, clean water, prevented disease and brought jobs to millions of the poorest Americans in the country has something wrong with them. What is really outrageous is that the states that benefitted paid for everything themselves via loans made to them by the federal government. All FDR did was make the loans available and offer his guidance.
Click to expand...


Dude, FDR sold us out and at the expense of every "citizen" that had a birth certificate and signed off on a Social Security card because their sweat equity was signed off on the debt.....all FDR had to do was kick the globalist bankers to the curb and proclaim that we would print our own script currency regulated by the Treasury Department per the organic US Constitution and it did not happen because he was in on the scam....you can make all the excuses that you want......,but the fact remains that the crippled POS sold us out...no revision of history can change it no matter how hard you try....


----------



## Dale Smith

PoliticalChic said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here the FDR/New Deal hater shows her lack of WWII history knowledge. Most of the resistance in Germany was impacted and influenced by the socialist and communist that escaped capture and annihilation. Like the resistance groups in the Nazi-occupied countries, the resistance people would have great influence and impact after the Nazi's were defeated.  SHAEF wanted to limit the size and scope of the resistance that would be confronted after that defeat. Assistance to them during the war would only strengthen the communist contingent after the wars end.
> Of course, add to these factors the one that the resistance in other countries were not German, rather peoples who were living under occupation of a brutal foreign military occupation, to the fact that what the OP is suggesting is a scenario that puts the resistance in Germany one of entering into a civil war and killing their fellow countrymen. No one at SHAEF viewed that as a viable concept or possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "New Deal" was no great deal at all. FDR and his banker pals abused the public trust when they created and registered millions of foreign situs trusts named after each of us. Under their own diversity of citizenship rules, corporations are considered to be “US citizens”. So they created all these foreign situs trusts as franchises of their own bankrupt corporation, and placed commercial liens against our names as chattel owned by their corporation and standing as surety for its debts. A group of thugs elected to political office grossly transgressed against the American people and the American states and committed the crime of personage against each and every one of us without us ever being aware of it. They couldn't enslave the "man on the land" but they could the corporate fiction that they created with the birth certificate that they then created a bond out of and made themselves the trustee of it using actuary tables to get an idea on what you would earn over your lifetime....and then borrowed against it...your sweat equity was put up to the highest bidder....in return, you got "privileges" and a pittance of what the bond would pay in S.S and unemployment "benefits". They claimed that we all knew about this arrangement and consented to it, because we “voluntarily” gave up our gold when FDR said we had to under the penalty of a huge fine and imprisonment. By signing the Social Security card, you gave them consent to do with your bond whatever they wanted. It's called "pledging" and it is an ancient form of debt slavery.
> 
> It was an intentional national system designed to keep track of the people.  Every American was basically forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living and this is the legacy left by FDR and his New (snicker) Deal...I call it a swindle but what do I know? I just spend thousands upon thousands of hours reading and listening to lectures from accredited researchers that dedicated theirs live figuring out how things got so fucked up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dale, there are different ways and methods of sourcing history books, articles and theses. Some of the methods, the ones used by scholarly histories and are recognized as such, use time consuming and frustrating vetting methods. They examine quotes and sources to see where the quotes came from and whether they are used in context. A history that is written without this kind of careful vetting of a source is tarnished and contaminated to the point that is not taken seriously by academic's. A quoted source from a blogger quoting another blogger is not a valid source to use in for example, submitting a thesis for a doctorate degree. It would invalidate the thesis and be returned with a failing grade. Written histories are supposed to be writings of indisputable facts which support the writers explanation of why and how those indisputable facts are used to form conclusions. The conclusions can be argued, but rarely can the facts used.  Conspiracy theories are based on conclusions reached by speculative and subjective opinions without providing the detailed vetting to prove the conclusions of the writer. That is why so many folks reject them as anything more than interesting entertainment and commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
Click to expand...

 Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....


----------



## PoliticalChic

Dale Smith said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here the FDR/New Deal hater shows her lack of WWII history knowledge. Most of the resistance in Germany was impacted and influenced by the socialist and communist that escaped capture and annihilation. Like the resistance groups in the Nazi-occupied countries, the resistance people would have great influence and impact after the Nazi's were defeated.  SHAEF wanted to limit the size and scope of the resistance that would be confronted after that defeat. Assistance to them during the war would only strengthen the communist contingent after the wars end.
> Of course, add to these factors the one that the resistance in other countries were not German, rather peoples who were living under occupation of a brutal foreign military occupation, to the fact that what the OP is suggesting is a scenario that puts the resistance in Germany one of entering into a civil war and killing their fellow countrymen. No one at SHAEF viewed that as a viable concept or possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "New Deal" was no great deal at all. FDR and his banker pals abused the public trust when they created and registered millions of foreign situs trusts named after each of us. Under their own diversity of citizenship rules, corporations are considered to be “US citizens”. So they created all these foreign situs trusts as franchises of their own bankrupt corporation, and placed commercial liens against our names as chattel owned by their corporation and standing as surety for its debts. A group of thugs elected to political office grossly transgressed against the American people and the American states and committed the crime of personage against each and every one of us without us ever being aware of it. They couldn't enslave the "man on the land" but they could the corporate fiction that they created with the birth certificate that they then created a bond out of and made themselves the trustee of it using actuary tables to get an idea on what you would earn over your lifetime....and then borrowed against it...your sweat equity was put up to the highest bidder....in return, you got "privileges" and a pittance of what the bond would pay in S.S and unemployment "benefits". They claimed that we all knew about this arrangement and consented to it, because we “voluntarily” gave up our gold when FDR said we had to under the penalty of a huge fine and imprisonment. By signing the Social Security card, you gave them consent to do with your bond whatever they wanted. It's called "pledging" and it is an ancient form of debt slavery.
> 
> It was an intentional national system designed to keep track of the people.  Every American was basically forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living and this is the legacy left by FDR and his New (snicker) Deal...I call it a swindle but what do I know? I just spend thousands upon thousands of hours reading and listening to lectures from accredited researchers that dedicated theirs live figuring out how things got so fucked up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dale, there are different ways and methods of sourcing history books, articles and theses. Some of the methods, the ones used by scholarly histories and are recognized as such, use time consuming and frustrating vetting methods. They examine quotes and sources to see where the quotes came from and whether they are used in context. A history that is written without this kind of careful vetting of a source is tarnished and contaminated to the point that is not taken seriously by academic's. A quoted source from a blogger quoting another blogger is not a valid source to use in for example, submitting a thesis for a doctorate degree. It would invalidate the thesis and be returned with a failing grade. Written histories are supposed to be writings of indisputable facts which support the writers explanation of why and how those indisputable facts are used to form conclusions. The conclusions can be argued, but rarely can the facts used.  Conspiracy theories are based on conclusions reached by speculative and subjective opinions without providing the detailed vetting to prove the conclusions of the writer. That is why so many folks reject them as anything more than interesting entertainment and commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
Click to expand...




I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.


And I do.


----------



## Camp

livingnewdeal.org/projects/comanche-county-courthouse-comanche-tx/

texasescapes.com/CentralTexasTownsNorth/ComancheTexas/ComancheCountyCourthouses.htm

The Living New Deal is an organization that has been mapping and archiving New Deal sites across America. They have found over 10,000. The above, The Comanche County Courthouse is one of them.


----------



## Camp

Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> The "New Deal" was no great deal at all. FDR and his banker pals abused the public trust when they created and registered millions of foreign situs trusts named after each of us. Under their own diversity of citizenship rules, corporations are considered to be “US citizens”. So they created all these foreign situs trusts as franchises of their own bankrupt corporation, and placed commercial liens against our names as chattel owned by their corporation and standing as surety for its debts. A group of thugs elected to political office grossly transgressed against the American people and the American states and committed the crime of personage against each and every one of us without us ever being aware of it. They couldn't enslave the "man on the land" but they could the corporate fiction that they created with the birth certificate that they then created a bond out of and made themselves the trustee of it using actuary tables to get an idea on what you would earn over your lifetime....and then borrowed against it...your sweat equity was put up to the highest bidder....in return, you got "privileges" and a pittance of what the bond would pay in S.S and unemployment "benefits". They claimed that we all knew about this arrangement and consented to it, because we “voluntarily” gave up our gold when FDR said we had to under the penalty of a huge fine and imprisonment. By signing the Social Security card, you gave them consent to do with your bond whatever they wanted. It's called "pledging" and it is an ancient form of debt slavery.
> 
> It was an intentional national system designed to keep track of the people.  Every American was basically forced to register or suffer being unable to work and earn a living and this is the legacy left by FDR and his New (snicker) Deal...I call it a swindle but what do I know? I just spend thousands upon thousands of hours reading and listening to lectures from accredited researchers that dedicated theirs live figuring out how things got so fucked up
> 
> 
> 
> Dale, there are different ways and methods of sourcing history books, articles and theses. Some of the methods, the ones used by scholarly histories and are recognized as such, use time consuming and frustrating vetting methods. They examine quotes and sources to see where the quotes came from and whether they are used in context. A history that is written without this kind of careful vetting of a source is tarnished and contaminated to the point that is not taken seriously by academic's. A quoted source from a blogger quoting another blogger is not a valid source to use in for example, submitting a thesis for a doctorate degree. It would invalidate the thesis and be returned with a failing grade. Written histories are supposed to be writings of indisputable facts which support the writers explanation of why and how those indisputable facts are used to form conclusions. The conclusions can be argued, but rarely can the facts used.  Conspiracy theories are based on conclusions reached by speculative and subjective opinions without providing the detailed vetting to prove the conclusions of the writer. That is why so many folks reject them as anything more than interesting entertainment and commentary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
Click to expand...


Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist


----------



## PoliticalChic

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dale, there are different ways and methods of sourcing history books, articles and theses. Some of the methods, the ones used by scholarly histories and are recognized as such, use time consuming and frustrating vetting methods. They examine quotes and sources to see where the quotes came from and whether they are used in context. A history that is written without this kind of careful vetting of a source is tarnished and contaminated to the point that is not taken seriously by academic's. A quoted source from a blogger quoting another blogger is not a valid source to use in for example, submitting a thesis for a doctorate degree. It would invalidate the thesis and be returned with a failing grade. Written histories are supposed to be writings of indisputable facts which support the writers explanation of why and how those indisputable facts are used to form conclusions. The conclusions can be argued, but rarely can the facts used.  Conspiracy theories are based on conclusions reached by speculative and subjective opinions without providing the detailed vetting to prove the conclusions of the writer. That is why so many folks reject them as anything more than interesting entertainment and commentary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
> ​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
Click to expand...




Truth is my 'supporter.'

Don't you wish you could say that?


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......
Click to expand...


listverse.com/2014/08/09/10-outlandish-conspiracy-theories-about-the-usa/

teamlaw.net/Mythology-CorpUS.htm


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
Click to expand...




PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
Click to expand...

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/theory/conspiracy.html

www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/theory/conspiracy.html


----------



## regent

I guess conspiracy issues fall under freedom of speech. Usually conspiracy issues are found allied with fear and rumors.


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> My research has come from MANY different sources that have never even met each other. I spend more time vetting information than I do investing in new information because I have to have my "T"'s crossed and my "i"s dotted because it takes a long time to build up credibility but just one miss-step to lose it when people are on the fence. It is a long and exhaustive but I will put what I have learned up against anyone here and I will back it with facts and data. I know exactly what I am talking about...trying to marginalize them by calling them "conspiracy theories" is nothing but laziness on your part.
> ​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
Click to expand...


My supporter is "Truth, Justice and the American Way"

What ya say about that super girl?


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR was wrong to inter Japanese Americans....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mean he was a fucking piece of shit for throwing innocent, loyal Americans in* concentration camps*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...



.


----------



## Unkotare

Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....  Now we know fears were unwarranted....in 1942 we didn't
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes we did.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...



.


Unkotare said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> World War II internment: U.S. top lawyer admits misconduct in Japanese American internment cases
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...



.


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> I guess conspiracy issues fall under freedom of speech. Usually conspiracy issues are found allied with fear and rumors.





Where is any 'conspiracy theory'?


----------



## PoliticalChic

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......
Click to expand...




They don't try to dispute, because they can't.

They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess conspiracy issues fall under freedom of speech. Usually conspiracy issues are found allied with fear and rumors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is any 'conspiracy theory'?
Click to expand...

The entire premise you promote that FDR's alliance with the Soviet's and Stalin was not a strategic and pragmatic plan for winning the war against Nazi Germany is based on conclusions based on speculative and agenda driven opinions about intent. You pretend to know the intent of all of FDR's decisions and ignore the actual end results. You use distortions by connecting various situations and decisions to offer your controversial explanations that supported the implementation of policies that strengthened the Russian military to take on the brunt of fighting the massive and technologically advanced German military as a conspiracy that amounts to FDR being a traitor and or a dupe of Stalin. That is the conspiracy theory you promote.


----------



## rightwinger

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess conspiracy issues fall under freedom of speech. Usually conspiracy issues are found allied with fear and rumors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where is any 'conspiracy theory'?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The entire premise you promote that FDR's alliance with the Soviet's and Stalin was not a strategic and pragmatic plan for winning the war against Nazi Germany is based on conclusions based on speculative and agenda driven opinions about intent. You pretend to know the intent of all of FDR's decisions and ignore the actual end results. You use distortions by connecting various situations and decisions to offer your controversial explanations that supported the implementation of policies that strengthened the Russian military to take on the brunt of fighting the massive and technologically advanced German military as a conspiracy that amounts to FDR being a traitor and or a dupe of Stalin. That is the conspiracy theory you promote.
Click to expand...


Even worse..

Frau Braun promotes the idea that we should have let Hitler win


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
Click to expand...

Nonsense, you have been challenged endlessly and asked specific questions about your claims and follow a routine of ignoring the challenges or answering the questions. You do exactly what you claim others do. You list a new series of cut and paste quotes with your agenda driven opinions. One need only read through your threads for confirmation of this.

You have never answered the question about how the Dust Bowl Storms affected the recovery during the Great Depression. You ignore that question as if the decade of storms had no effect. You wanted to know why European economies recovered from the depression faster than America. The Dust Bowl Storms were one of the explanations. No response from you.

You criticize FDR for giving diplomatic recognition to the USSR in '33. The response was made that all the other western nations had already given diplomatic recognition and there was great pressure from American businesses to lift the sanctions and roadblocks preventing trade. No counter response from you.

You made a whole silly thread about FDR refusing to implement a southern battle front, ignoring as if you were unaware of the invasion and war in Italy and the invasion of Southern France. You foolishly ignored the Alps and proposed putting US troops fighting beside and dependent on the Russian Army. When made aware of these factors you not only ignored them and failed to respond, you continue to occasionally use the silly concept.

You still have never explained why you use the pro-isolationist libertarian pen name, Chesly Manly, the name used to leak American contingency war plans against Germany two days before Pearl Harbor. Hitler used the leak in his Declaration of War against America. You use the writings attributed to the front and cover name as a primary source of your many theses. It is an obviously unreliable political agenda driven source. You have been asked a dozen times to justify the use of that source and refused to answer.

Can you provide counter examples of simple, to the point, easy to understand questions you have asked me that I have not responded too?


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> www2.ucsc.edu/whoruhtmllesamerica/theory/conspiracy.
Click to expand...




Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> That guy, Cramp....he donnn need no stinkin' research!!!!
> 
> Revealing the truth about his hero is a red flag to him!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/theory/conspiracy.html
Click to expand...


That was seriously some funny shit! Some alleged professor from some university in Santa Cruz has all the answers!! Some shill with no critical thinking skills seems to have an unwavering faith in "da gubermint". I would love to debate him or even have a discussion...I would have him stuttering and stammering within minutes. Anyone that believes that Oswald (a mediocre shot with a rifle at best) could have fired those shots with a bolt action rifle with deadly accuracy knows nothing about shooting...then we have the "magic bullet" theory where bullets do u-turns...seriously? How fucking stupid do people have to be? I have invested thousands upon THOUSANDS of hours reading and doing research. The best thing I ever did was get rid of my television because it is the greatest propaganda tool ever created. You think a website is going to derail me? I know my shit and I know a helluva lot more than you do....and you know why that is? Because I have taken the time to learn and read instead of depending on getting my information from the corporate media of which 90 percent is owned by 6 conglomerates. Conspiracies have been going on since the beginning of time. It is simply two or more people plotting and carrying out a scheme for nefarious means and to think that they do not happen that affects the way you have to eek out an existence on this shitty prison planet is beyond stupid. I know more than you....face the facts.


----------



## guno

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> www2.ucsc.edu/whoruhtmllesamerica/theory/conspiracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, he is more to be pitied than scolded.............I can lead him to water but I can't make him drink.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/theory/conspiracy.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was seriously some funny shit! Some alleged professor from some university in Santa Cruz has all the answers!! Some shill with no critical thinking skills seems to have an unwavering faith in "da gubermint". I would love to debate him or even have a discussion...I would have him stuttering and stammering within minutes. Anyone that believes that Oswald (a mediocre shot with a rifle at best) could have fired those shots with a bolt action rifle with deadly accuracy knows nothing about shooting...then we have the "magic bullet" theory where bullets do u-turns...seriously? How fucking stupid do people have to be? I have invested thousands upon THOUSANDS of hours reading and doing research. The best thing I ever did was get rid of my television because it is the greatest propaganda tool ever created. You think a website is going to derail me? I know my shit and I know a helluva lot more than you do....and you know why that is? Because I have taken the time to learn and read instead of depending on getting my information from the corporate media of which 90 percent is owned by 6 conglomerates. Conspiracies have been going on since the beginning of time. It is simply two or more people plotting and carrying out a scheme for nefarious means and to think that they do not happen that affects the way you have to eek out an existence on this shitty prison planet is beyond stupid. I know more than you....face the facts.
Click to expand...

yes failed mail room boi , a total failure in life knows about everything!!!


----------



## Dale Smith

regent said:


> I guess conspiracy issues fall under freedom of speech. Usually conspiracy issues are found allied with fear and rumors.



No fear here at all...I simply don't swallow the bullshit that is fed to me since I have the ability to think for myself along with a keen eye for research. I attack every issue from many different angles. I do not read just things that I suspect may be true without reading the other side. There is a pro for every con and you have to have the ability to discern the information and reach your own conclusion. I have that ability while it seems that you struggle with it. I think you are smart enough that you will eventually "wake up" as to what has been done to you and it has nothing to do with left versus right, white versus black, protestant versus catholicism or poor versus rich. The elites that really call the shots use the divide and conquer strategy in order to keep us divided and fighting with each other so we never see whom the real enemy is. They use psy-ops like the Lusitania sinking, Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin and 9/11 to rally the sheep so that we will support illegal wars financed by the very same bankers that extend credit created from thin air and it is our labor that actually moves this fake Monopoly money that they use to buy up real tangible assets. I know quite a bit because I have taken the time and invested lots of it to learn how things really work and it's not what you think at all. You can either wake up now or finally see what I am saying is true when it's too late. I know how the system works and I see how it has been killing this country. I see how this country has been used to prey on countries that didn't have the resources to fight off the military industrial complex whose owners coveted the natural resources they wanted. Read John Perkins book, "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man"....it's pretty enlightening and some things might become clearer to you.


----------



## Dale Smith

guno said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> www2.ucsc.edu/whoruhtmllesamerica/theory/conspiracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd rather beat him like a rented mule.
> 
> 
> And I do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/theory/conspiracy.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was seriously some funny shit! Some alleged professor from some university in Santa Cruz has all the answers!! Some shill with no critical thinking skills seems to have an unwavering faith in "da gubermint". I would love to debate him or even have a discussion...I would have him stuttering and stammering within minutes. Anyone that believes that Oswald (a mediocre shot with a rifle at best) could have fired those shots with a bolt action rifle with deadly accuracy knows nothing about shooting...then we have the "magic bullet" theory where bullets do u-turns...seriously? How fucking stupid do people have to be? I have invested thousands upon THOUSANDS of hours reading and doing research. The best thing I ever did was get rid of my television because it is the greatest propaganda tool ever created. You think a website is going to derail me? I know my shit and I know a helluva lot more than you do....and you know why that is? Because I have taken the time to learn and read instead of depending on getting my information from the corporate media of which 90 percent is owned by 6 conglomerates. Conspiracies have been going on since the beginning of time. It is simply two or more people plotting and carrying out a scheme for nefarious means and to think that they do not happen that affects the way you have to eek out an existence on this shitty prison planet is beyond stupid. I know more than you....face the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes failed mail room boi , a total failure in life knows about everything!!!
Click to expand...



I know more than you...and I consider myself quite blessed to make more on my own by 10 grand than the median income of a married couple whose combined income of 40K equals "middle class"......what a joke that is. I am trying to speak out for the people and I don't care about their political leanings because it makes no difference whatsoever.


----------



## Dale Smith

PoliticalChic said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
Click to expand...

 I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess conspiracy issues fall under freedom of speech. Usually conspiracy issues are found allied with fear and rumors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No fear here at all...I simply don't swallow the bullshit that is fed to me since I have the ability to think for myself along with a keen eye for research. I attack every issue from many different angles. I do not read just things that I suspect may be true without reading the other side. There is a pro for every con and you have to have the ability to discern the information and reach your own conclusion. I have that ability while it seems that you struggle with it. I think you are smart enough that you will eventually "wake up" as to what has been done to you and it has nothing to do with left versus right, white versus black, protestant versus catholicism or poor versus rich. The elites that really call the shots use the divide and conquer strategy in order to keep us divided and fighting with each other so we never see whom the real enemy is. They use psy-ops like the Lusitania sinking, Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin and 9/11 to rally the sheep so that we will support illegal wars financed by the very same bankers that extend credit created from thin air and it is our labor that actually moves this fake Monopoly money that they use to buy up real tangible assets. I know quite a bit because I have taken the time and invested lots of it to learn how things really work and it's not what you think at all. You can either wake up now or finally see what I am saying is true when it's too late. I know how the system works and I see how it has been killing this country. I see how this country has been used to prey on countries that didn't have the resources to fight off the military industrial complex whose owners coveted the natural resources they wanted. Read John Perkins book, "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man"....it's pretty enlightening and some things might become clearer to you.
Click to expand...

Perkins book has been denounced and debunked by academics, the media, and government agencies and is viewed as a tin foil hat conspiracy theory promoter. Read all about it at Wikipedia. But hey, your the guy that is smarter than University Professors with Doctorate degrees and view University online essays and academic writings as common websites.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.
Click to expand...

You just are angry that people are not interested in your topics of interest. There are a lot of Americans waking up to various issues and concerns, they just aren't the things that concern you. Vast awakenings have and are occurring in civil rights, economic equality, freedoms being denied in health care and education, judicial process and other issue's. When people say "wake up America" they are simply pleading for attention to their selected agendas and interest. Sorry, there are not more folks who want to focus on old conspiracy theories. That's just the way it is. If conspirators killed Kennedy, they got away with it.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Dale Smith said:


> guno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> www2.ucsc.edu/whoruhtmllesamerica/theory/conspiracy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how your only supporter is a nutjob conspiracy theorist
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Truth is my 'supporter.'
> 
> Don't you wish you could say that?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/theory/conspiracy.html
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That was seriously some funny shit! Some alleged professor from some university in Santa Cruz has all the answers!! Some shill with no critical thinking skills seems to have an unwavering faith in "da gubermint". I would love to debate him or even have a discussion...I would have him stuttering and stammering within minutes. Anyone that believes that Oswald (a mediocre shot with a rifle at best) could have fired those shots with a bolt action rifle with deadly accuracy knows nothing about shooting...then we have the "magic bullet" theory where bullets do u-turns...seriously? How fucking stupid do people have to be? I have invested thousands upon THOUSANDS of hours reading and doing research. The best thing I ever did was get rid of my television because it is the greatest propaganda tool ever created. You think a website is going to derail me? I know my shit and I know a helluva lot more than you do....and you know why that is? Because I have taken the time to learn and read instead of depending on getting my information from the corporate media of which 90 percent is owned by 6 conglomerates. Conspiracies have been going on since the beginning of time. It is simply two or more people plotting and carrying out a scheme for nefarious means and to think that they do not happen that affects the way you have to eek out an existence on this shitty prison planet is beyond stupid. I know more than you....face the facts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes failed mail room boi , a total failure in life knows about everything!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I know more than you...and I consider myself quite blessed to make more on my own by 10 grand than the median income of a married couple whose combined income of 40K equals "middle class"......what a joke that is. I am trying to speak out for the people and I don't care about their political leanings because it makes no difference whatsoever.
Click to expand...




Knowing more than that poster quite a low bar....


----------



## PoliticalChic

Dale Smith said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.
Click to expand...



"We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions..."

If only.....


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess conspiracy issues fall under freedom of speech. Usually conspiracy issues are found allied with fear and rumors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No fear here at all...I simply don't swallow the bullshit that is fed to me since I have the ability to think for myself along with a keen eye for research. I attack every issue from many different angles. I do not read just things that I suspect may be true without reading the other side. There is a pro for every con and you have to have the ability to discern the information and reach your own conclusion. I have that ability while it seems that you struggle with it. I think you are smart enough that you will eventually "wake up" as to what has been done to you and it has nothing to do with left versus right, white versus black, protestant versus catholicism or poor versus rich. The elites that really call the shots use the divide and conquer strategy in order to keep us divided and fighting with each other so we never see whom the real enemy is. They use psy-ops like the Lusitania sinking, Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin and 9/11 to rally the sheep so that we will support illegal wars financed by the very same bankers that extend credit created from thin air and it is our labor that actually moves this fake Monopoly money that they use to buy up real tangible assets. I know quite a bit because I have taken the time and invested lots of it to learn how things really work and it's not what you think at all. You can either wake up now or finally see what I am saying is true when it's too late. I know how the system works and I see how it has been killing this country. I see how this country has been used to prey on countries that didn't have the resources to fight off the military industrial complex whose owners coveted the natural resources they wanted. Read John Perkins book, "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man"....it's pretty enlightening and some things might become clearer to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perkins book has been denounced and debunked by academics, the media, and government agencies and is viewed as a tin foil hat conspiracy theory promoter. Read all about it at Wikipedia. But hey, your the guy that is smarter than University Professors with Doctorate degrees and view University online essays and academic writings as common websites.
Click to expand...


Yeah, anyone can write on Wikipedia and unless these "professors" have ever worked for the CIA or the corporate "gubermint" that is USA.INC? How would they know? What we do know is that this corporate entity has funded and propped up any despot that will play ball with them so the money rolls in...don't play ball? There is a coup de 'etat like what happened in Iraq, Iran, Chile, etc, etc......USA.INC doesn't spread "democracy" (which is a joke because America was founded as a Republic)....USA.INC is about the bottom line on the ledger sheet...think, learn, grow and evolve....


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just are angry that people are not interested in your topics of interest. There are a lot of Americans waking up to various issues and concerns, they just aren't the things that concern you. Vast awakenings have and are occurring in civil rights, economic equality, freedoms being denied in health care and education, judicial process and other issue's. When people say "wake up America" they are simply pleading for attention to their selected agendas and interest. Sorry, there are not more folks who want to focus on old conspiracy theories. That's just the way it is. If conspirators killed Kennedy, they got away with it.
Click to expand...



"... people are not interested in your topics of interest."

Seems to hold your interest, huh?


----------



## PoliticalChic

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess conspiracy issues fall under freedom of speech. Usually conspiracy issues are found allied with fear and rumors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No fear here at all...I simply don't swallow the bullshit that is fed to me since I have the ability to think for myself along with a keen eye for research. I attack every issue from many different angles. I do not read just things that I suspect may be true without reading the other side. There is a pro for every con and you have to have the ability to discern the information and reach your own conclusion. I have that ability while it seems that you struggle with it. I think you are smart enough that you will eventually "wake up" as to what has been done to you and it has nothing to do with left versus right, white versus black, protestant versus catholicism or poor versus rich. The elites that really call the shots use the divide and conquer strategy in order to keep us divided and fighting with each other so we never see whom the real enemy is. They use psy-ops like the Lusitania sinking, Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin and 9/11 to rally the sheep so that we will support illegal wars financed by the very same bankers that extend credit created from thin air and it is our labor that actually moves this fake Monopoly money that they use to buy up real tangible assets. I know quite a bit because I have taken the time and invested lots of it to learn how things really work and it's not what you think at all. You can either wake up now or finally see what I am saying is true when it's too late. I know how the system works and I see how it has been killing this country. I see how this country has been used to prey on countries that didn't have the resources to fight off the military industrial complex whose owners coveted the natural resources they wanted. Read John Perkins book, "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man"....it's pretty enlightening and some things might become clearer to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perkins book has been denounced and debunked by academics, the media, and government agencies and is viewed as a tin foil hat conspiracy theory promoter. Read all about it at Wikipedia. But hey, your the guy that is smarter than University Professors with Doctorate degrees and view University online essays and academic writings as common websites.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, anyone can write on Wikipedia and unless these "professors" have ever worked for the CIA or the corporate "gubermint" that is USA.INC? How would they know? What we do know is that this corporate entity has funded and propped up any despot that will play ball with them so the money rolls in...don't play ball? There is a coup de 'etat like what happened in Iraq, Iran, Chile, etc, etc......USA.INC doesn't spread "democracy" (which is a joke because America was founded as a Republic)....USA.INC is about the bottom line on the ledger sheet...think, learn, grow and evolve....
Click to expand...



"Yeah, anyone can write on Wikipedia..."

Recently, I worked for a political candidate,and found the Leftist slant at Wikipedia....the ease of inserting Leftist propaganda,and the difficulty of adding positive facts to my candidate.


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just are angry that people are not interested in your topics of interest. There are a lot of Americans waking up to various issues and concerns, they just aren't the things that concern you. Vast awakenings have and are occurring in civil rights, economic equality, freedoms being denied in health care and education, judicial process and other issue's. When people say "wake up America" they are simply pleading for attention to their selected agendas and interest. Sorry, there are not more folks who want to focus on old conspiracy theories. That's just the way it is. If conspirators killed Kennedy, they got away with it.
Click to expand...

 I am not angry in the least...concerned? Most definitely and you don't have a clue as to WHY there is economic inequality. You don't have a clue as to why people are not afforded decent healthcare or even what is making them sick to begin with that feeds into the profits concerning big pharma. Unless you understand the "WHY", you can't understand what it will take. You can stomp your little feet, you can raise your little fist in protest but that isn't going to change diddly squat. Big pharma is owned by the big banks that also own all the big insurance companies...they are not interested in cures because there is no profit in that. The banking oligarchs (using your income taxes from a fiat currency created from thin air) are the majority stockholders in every Fortune 500 corporation that have used this fiat currency to buy off politicians that have put incredibly unfair "Fair Trade Agreements" in place like NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and the most recently job killing agreement in place that is the TPP. The demise of the middle class was planned by the Club Of Rome, an offshoot of the U.N whose sole purpose was to take down the middle class of not only America, but any prosperous country....you see, the elites know that poor people are easier to control. A healthy middle class works against their agenda of a feudalistic, technocratic totalitarian society where they are the rulers over the serfs...how can you not see this?


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just are angry that people are not interested in your topics of interest. There are a lot of Americans waking up to various issues and concerns, they just aren't the things that concern you. Vast awakenings have and are occurring in civil rights, economic equality, freedoms being denied in health care and education, judicial process and other issue's. When people say "wake up America" they are simply pleading for attention to their selected agendas and interest. Sorry, there are not more folks who want to focus on old conspiracy theories. That's just the way it is. If conspirators killed Kennedy, they got away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not angry in the least...concerned? Most definitely and you don't have a clue as to WHY there is economic inequality. You don't have a clue as to why people are not afforded decent healthcare or even what is making them sick to begin with that feeds into the profits concerning big pharma. Unless you understand the "WHY", you can't understand what it will take. You can stomp your little feet, you can raise your little fist in protest but that isn't going to change diddly squat. Big pharma is owned by the big banks that also own all the big insurance companies...they are not interested in cures because there is no profit in that. The banking oligarchs (using your income taxes from a fiat currency created from thin air) are the majority stockholders in every Fortune 500 corporation that have used this fiat currency to buy off politicians that have put incredibly unfair "Fair Trade Agreements" in place like NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and the most recently job killing agreement in place that is the TPP. The demise of the middle class was planned by the Club Of Rome, an offshoot of the U.N whose sole purpose was to take down the middle class of not only America, but any prosperous country....you see, the elites know that poor people are easier to control. A healthy middle class works against their agenda of a feudalistic, technocratic totalitarian society where they are the rulers over the serfs...how can you not see this?
Click to expand...

None of this has anything to do with FDR. Why don't you start a thread about your issues? Each time you post or get a response to your post the topic is hijacked away from the intent of the OP and thread. I have politely answered your questions and provided links at your request but feel when I do so I am involved in a conspiracy to hijack the thread. If you want to discuss your topic, start that thread.


----------



## Camp

nps.gov/frde/index.htm


----------



## Dale Smith

PoliticalChic said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess conspiracy issues fall under freedom of speech. Usually conspiracy issues are found allied with fear and rumors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No fear here at all...I simply don't swallow the bullshit that is fed to me since I have the ability to think for myself along with a keen eye for research. I attack every issue from many different angles. I do not read just things that I suspect may be true without reading the other side. There is a pro for every con and you have to have the ability to discern the information and reach your own conclusion. I have that ability while it seems that you struggle with it. I think you are smart enough that you will eventually "wake up" as to what has been done to you and it has nothing to do with left versus right, white versus black, protestant versus catholicism or poor versus rich. The elites that really call the shots use the divide and conquer strategy in order to keep us divided and fighting with each other so we never see whom the real enemy is. They use psy-ops like the Lusitania sinking, Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin and 9/11 to rally the sheep so that we will support illegal wars financed by the very same bankers that extend credit created from thin air and it is our labor that actually moves this fake Monopoly money that they use to buy up real tangible assets. I know quite a bit because I have taken the time and invested lots of it to learn how things really work and it's not what you think at all. You can either wake up now or finally see what I am saying is true when it's too late. I know how the system works and I see how it has been killing this country. I see how this country has been used to prey on countries that didn't have the resources to fight off the military industrial complex whose owners coveted the natural resources they wanted. Read John Perkins book, "Confessions Of An Economic Hit Man"....it's pretty enlightening and some things might become clearer to you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perkins book has been denounced and debunked by academics, the media, and government agencies and is viewed as a tin foil hat conspiracy theory promoter. Read all about it at Wikipedia. But hey, your the guy that is smarter than University Professors with Doctorate degrees and view University online essays and academic writings as common websites.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, anyone can write on Wikipedia and unless these "professors" have ever worked for the CIA or the corporate "gubermint" that is USA.INC? How would they know? What we do know is that this corporate entity has funded and propped up any despot that will play ball with them so the money rolls in...don't play ball? There is a coup de 'etat like what happened in Iraq, Iran, Chile, etc, etc......USA.INC doesn't spread "democracy" (which is a joke because America was founded as a Republic)....USA.INC is about the bottom line on the ledger sheet...think, learn, grow and evolve....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Yeah, anyone can write on Wikipedia..."
> 
> Recently, I worked for a political candidate,and found the Leftist slant at Wikipedia....the ease of inserting Leftist propaganda,and the difficulty of adding positive facts to my candidate.
Click to expand...


Wikipedia is a decent source for information if it's not political. One night I spent 10 hours Googling every member that belonged to both the CFR and the Trilateral Commission and Wikipedia was instrumental into looking into their backgrounds. What I found was that every single person that belonged to both groups was schooled at one of the 28 Jesuit colleges or went to an Ivy League school that belonged to a Jesuit secret society like Skull and Bones or they belonged to other prestigious secret societies like Cap and Gown, Quill and Dagger, Scroll and Key, etc, etc.....


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
> 
> 
> 
> I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just are angry that people are not interested in your topics of interest. There are a lot of Americans waking up to various issues and concerns, they just aren't the things that concern you. Vast awakenings have and are occurring in civil rights, economic equality, freedoms being denied in health care and education, judicial process and other issue's. When people say "wake up America" they are simply pleading for attention to their selected agendas and interest. Sorry, there are not more folks who want to focus on old conspiracy theories. That's just the way it is. If conspirators killed Kennedy, they got away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not angry in the least...concerned? Most definitely and you don't have a clue as to WHY there is economic inequality. You don't have a clue as to why people are not afforded decent healthcare or even what is making them sick to begin with that feeds into the profits concerning big pharma. Unless you understand the "WHY", you can't understand what it will take. You can stomp your little feet, you can raise your little fist in protest but that isn't going to change diddly squat. Big pharma is owned by the big banks that also own all the big insurance companies...they are not interested in cures because there is no profit in that. The banking oligarchs (using your income taxes from a fiat currency created from thin air) are the majority stockholders in every Fortune 500 corporation that have used this fiat currency to buy off politicians that have put incredibly unfair "Fair Trade Agreements" in place like NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and the most recently job killing agreement in place that is the TPP. The demise of the middle class was planned by the Club Of Rome, an offshoot of the U.N whose sole purpose was to take down the middle class of not only America, but any prosperous country....you see, the elites know that poor people are easier to control. A healthy middle class works against their agenda of a feudalistic, technocratic totalitarian society where they are the rulers over the serfs...how can you not see this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of this has anything to do with FDR. Why don't you start a thread about your issues? Each time you post or get a response to your post the topic is hijacked away from the intent of the OP and thread. I have politely answered your questions and provided links at your request but feel when I do so I am involved in a conspiracy to hijack the thread. If you want to discuss your topic, start that thread.
Click to expand...

 FDR was not the hero that you proclaim him to be and I have proven that...whether you choose to believe it or not is your issue. He "pledged" our labor as collateral on the debt due to the Bankruptcy Act of March 9th, 1933. Up until 1933, no one had to have a "certificate of live birth". FDR pledged our labor and using the birth certificate that was monetized and printed on bond paper...thus allowing this corporation to "borrow" a fiat currency created from credit extended out of thin air. The huddled, uneducated masses (most of which couldn't even read above a 3rd grade level) were told that they had to turn in their gold (which is real money)did as they were instructed, the banking oligarchs took it in exchange for paper notes that could not be exchanged for real "money" i.e something that had an intrinsic value. The people were sold a bill of goods and they exchanged their God given rights for "privileges" that required people to acquire a license for something that under Admiralty law would be "illegal" otherwise....get it now?


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> nps.gov/frde/index.htm


 Your link leaves me totally underwhelmed.......what exactly were you trying to prove with that???


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> nps.gov/frde/index.htm




I love when the Left puts up salutary plaques!

Like this one...









"Abraham Lincoln, a Democrat?

So says a plaque at a public university in Lincoln’s home state of Illinois, where, since 1905, students at Northeastern Illinois University in Chicago have seen the nation’s 16th president — and quite possibly its most influential — honored as a democrat.

“This building is dedicated to public service honoring the memory of Abraham Lincoln,” the inscription reads. “Democrat.”
College plaque in Land of Lincoln labels Abe a 'Democrat' | Fox News




Roosevelt....nothing to fear but fear itself.....
...and the 32nd President issuing policies that extended both the Depression, and WWII>

True story.


----------



## Camp

Dale Smith said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
> 
> 
> 
> I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just are angry that people are not interested in your topics of interest. There are a lot of Americans waking up to various issues and concerns, they just aren't the things that concern you. Vast awakenings have and are occurring in civil rights, economic equality, freedoms being denied in health care and education, judicial process and other issue's. When people say "wake up America" they are simply pleading for attention to their selected agendas and interest. Sorry, there are not more folks who want to focus on old conspiracy theories. That's just the way it is. If conspirators killed Kennedy, they got away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not angry in the least...concerned? Most definitely and you don't have a clue as to WHY there is economic inequality. You don't have a clue as to why people are not afforded decent healthcare or even what is making them sick to begin with that feeds into the profits concerning big pharma. Unless you understand the "WHY", you can't understand what it will take. You can stomp your little feet, you can raise your little fist in protest but that isn't going to change diddly squat. Big pharma is owned by the big banks that also own all the big insurance companies...they are not interested in cures because there is no profit in that. The banking oligarchs (using your income taxes from a fiat currency created from thin air) are the majority stockholders in every Fortune 500 corporation that have used this fiat currency to buy off politicians that have put incredibly unfair "Fair Trade Agreements" in place like NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and the most recently job killing agreement in place that is the TPP. The demise of the middle class was planned by the Club Of Rome, an offshoot of the U.N whose sole purpose was to take down the middle class of not only America, but any prosperous country....you see, the elites know that poor people are easier to control. A healthy middle class works against their agenda of a feudalistic, technocratic totalitarian society where they are the rulers over the serfs...how can you not see this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of this has anything to do with FDR. Why don't you start a thread about your issues? Each time you post or get a response to your post the topic is hijacked away from the intent of the OP and thread. I have politely answered your questions and provided links at your request but feel when I do so I am involved in a conspiracy to hijack the thread. If you want to discuss your topic, start that thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FDR was not the hero that you proclaim him to be and I have proven that...whether you choose to believe it or not is your issue. He "pledged" our labor as collateral on the debt due to the Bankruptcy Act of March 9th, 1933. Up until 1933, no one had to have a "certificate of live birth". FDR pledged our labor and using the birth certificate that was monetized and printed on bond paper...thus allowing this corporation to "borrow" a fiat currency created from credit extended out of thin air. The huddled, uneducated masses (most of which couldn't even read above a 3rd grade level) were told that they had to turn in their gold (which is real money)did as they were instructed, the banking oligarchs took it in exchange for paper notes that could not be exchanged for real "money" i.e something that had an intrinsic value. The people were sold a bill of goods and they exchanged their God given rights for "privileges" that required people to acquire a license for something that under Admiralty law would be "illegal" otherwise....get it now?
Click to expand...

Tin foil hat nonsense. I provided a link. You do not give credit to responses made by Doctorate degree professors from highly ranked accredited universities, so any debate with you is hopeless. No matter how many links are provided to debunk and discredit your conspiracy theory, you will simply repeat your last response and proclaim you have studied the issue and know more about it than even the Doctorate degree scholars at the finest and most respected universities and colleges in the world.
The link to the FDR Memorial was posted because this is actually a thread about FDR and not designed to be a catch-all thread for a couple of conspiracy theory buffs.


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> nps.gov/frde/index.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love when the Left puts up salutary plaques!
> 
> Like this one...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Abraham Lincoln, a Democrat?
> 
> So says a plaque at a public university in Lincoln’s home state of Illinois, where, since 1905, students at Northeastern Illinois University in Chicago have seen the nation’s 16th president — and quite possibly its most influential — honored as a democrat.
> 
> “This building is dedicated to public service honoring the memory of Abraham Lincoln,” the inscription reads. “Democrat.”
> College plaque in Land of Lincoln labels Abe a 'Democrat' | Fox News
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roosevelt....nothing to fear but fear itself.....
> ...and the 32nd President issuing policies that extended both the Depression, and WWII>
> 
> True story.
Click to expand...

So you are doing the usual routine. A specific series of questions you have evaded answering were shown to you this morning and you are failing to respond, but happy to make a post that has nothing to do with the topics you were challenged with. Oh look, a college called Lincoln a Democrat on a plaque.
Did you even read the whole article by FOX about the 1905 plague?


----------



## Dale Smith

Camp said:


> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.
> 
> 
> 
> You just are angry that people are not interested in your topics of interest. There are a lot of Americans waking up to various issues and concerns, they just aren't the things that concern you. Vast awakenings have and are occurring in civil rights, economic equality, freedoms being denied in health care and education, judicial process and other issue's. When people say "wake up America" they are simply pleading for attention to their selected agendas and interest. Sorry, there are not more folks who want to focus on old conspiracy theories. That's just the way it is. If conspirators killed Kennedy, they got away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not angry in the least...concerned? Most definitely and you don't have a clue as to WHY there is economic inequality. You don't have a clue as to why people are not afforded decent healthcare or even what is making them sick to begin with that feeds into the profits concerning big pharma. Unless you understand the "WHY", you can't understand what it will take. You can stomp your little feet, you can raise your little fist in protest but that isn't going to change diddly squat. Big pharma is owned by the big banks that also own all the big insurance companies...they are not interested in cures because there is no profit in that. The banking oligarchs (using your income taxes from a fiat currency created from thin air) are the majority stockholders in every Fortune 500 corporation that have used this fiat currency to buy off politicians that have put incredibly unfair "Fair Trade Agreements" in place like NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT and the most recently job killing agreement in place that is the TPP. The demise of the middle class was planned by the Club Of Rome, an offshoot of the U.N whose sole purpose was to take down the middle class of not only America, but any prosperous country....you see, the elites know that poor people are easier to control. A healthy middle class works against their agenda of a feudalistic, technocratic totalitarian society where they are the rulers over the serfs...how can you not see this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> None of this has anything to do with FDR. Why don't you start a thread about your issues? Each time you post or get a response to your post the topic is hijacked away from the intent of the OP and thread. I have politely answered your questions and provided links at your request but feel when I do so I am involved in a conspiracy to hijack the thread. If you want to discuss your topic, start that thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FDR was not the hero that you proclaim him to be and I have proven that...whether you choose to believe it or not is your issue. He "pledged" our labor as collateral on the debt due to the Bankruptcy Act of March 9th, 1933. Up until 1933, no one had to have a "certificate of live birth". FDR pledged our labor and using the birth certificate that was monetized and printed on bond paper...thus allowing this corporation to "borrow" a fiat currency created from credit extended out of thin air. The huddled, uneducated masses (most of which couldn't even read above a 3rd grade level) were told that they had to turn in their gold (which is real money)did as they were instructed, the banking oligarchs took it in exchange for paper notes that could not be exchanged for real "money" i.e something that had an intrinsic value. The people were sold a bill of goods and they exchanged their God given rights for "privileges" that required people to acquire a license for something that under Admiralty law would be "illegal" otherwise....get it now?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Tin foil hat nonsense. I provided a link. You do not give credit to responses made by Doctorate degree professors from highly ranked accredited universities, so any debate with you is hopeless. No matter how many links are provided to debunk and discredit your conspiracy theory, you will simply repeat your last response and proclaim you have studied the issue and know more about it than even the Doctorate degree scholars at the finest and most respected universities and colleges in the world.
> The link to the FDR Memorial was posted because this is actually a thread about FDR and not designed to be a catch-all thread for a couple of conspiracy theory buffs.
Click to expand...

 Oh how I wish that was the case...that I was just some kind of delusional "nut case" that latches onto any type of "anti- gubermint" conspiracy but nothing could be further from the truth. Up until I was 49 years old, I bought everything this corporate "gubermint" fed me. I demonized people that dared to question any official story because I had child like faith....but to my detriment, I moved to Detroit, Michigan three plus years ago for work. I was free from distractions like playing in a band, gathering with friends, etc, etc so I was isolated. My son that was 17 at the time swore up and down that 9/11 was an inside job and if I would watch "Loose Change" and if I could walk away from watching that with no questions? He would stop bugging me...I eagerly took him up on the challenge because who wants to be taught how the cow ate the cabbage from some "wet behind the ears" kid? I watched it and took notes just so I could shut his ass up. I watched it and I was stunned to learn that there was so much that we were not told...and then right around that time Eric Snowden revealed that all the tools necessary to spy and store our every move on the internet and cellphone activity had been put in place before 9/11 and that the Patriot Act had been written well in advance....when these revelations hit me and the scales fell from my eyes? It pissed me off so much that I went from being horrified to being one pissed off motherfucker. I turned off the TV and started downloading books, listening to documentaries and lectures. It became a quest for the truth and I don't give a shit on how ugly it is. I have prayed for guidance every time I venture down the rabbit hole because it veers off in so many directions but God has granted me "clarity of thought" and the ability to do proper vetting of information and the ability to discern information...so your university "professors" and their opinions do not mean diddly squat to me. I would love to discuss some things with them because I am armed to the hilt with information....because this is what I do....it is pretty much all I do...even when I am at work. I am a walking, talking encyclopedia of knowledge and I soak information up like a sponge.


----------



## Political Junky

CrusaderFrank said:


> For my next trick, I can make him laugh while I drink water -- Uncle Joe and his sock puppet FDR


Did you crop Churchill from that picture?


----------



## koshergrl

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Neither you or Dale refute or challenge my postings. You simply whine and pat yourselves on the back. When I refute and debunk your nonsense you fail to respond. Over and over you pull the same routine. Claim you are right and never wrong, toss a few insults and name calling and then issue a new flood of misdirected out of context quotes.
> You claimed and still claim Canaris was a viable conduit for negotiating a conditional surrender. You added names of other Germans who could do the same. I showed how dopey your idea was by exposing the facts about how the Nazi's caught them and killed them and in the case of Canaris, his whole family. Bitch slapping you has become routine.[/QUOTEt
> 
> You haven't been able to dispute anything I have claimed.......nothing whatsoever.......bring it on because I know of which I speak......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just are angry that people are not interested in your topics of interest. There are a lot of Americans waking up to various issues and concerns, they just aren't the things that concern you. Vast awakenings have and are occurring in civil rights, economic equality, freedoms being denied in health care and education, judicial process and other issue's. When people say "wake up America" they are simply pleading for attention to their selected agendas and interest. Sorry, there are not more folks who want to focus on old conspiracy theories. That's just the way it is. If conspirators killed Kennedy, they got away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "... people are not interested in your topics of interest."
> 
> Seems to hold your interest, huh?
Click to expand...

Yeah, he's evil.


----------



## rightwinger

koshergrl said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dale Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't try to dispute, because they can't.
> 
> They just move on to something different....or post "Oh, yeah..but...but...."
> 
> 
> 
> I want people to wake the fuck up and start questioning what is being done to them instead of bending over and just taking it. Seriously, if people only realized that the elites haven't accomplished their goal of not needing us just yet, we could turn it all around. I see what is going on and it couldn't be clearer to me but they are closing our window of opportunity to fight back. We need a mass awakening of monumental proportions and elections do not mean shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You just are angry that people are not interested in your topics of interest. There are a lot of Americans waking up to various issues and concerns, they just aren't the things that concern you. Vast awakenings have and are occurring in civil rights, economic equality, freedoms being denied in health care and education, judicial process and other issue's. When people say "wake up America" they are simply pleading for attention to their selected agendas and interest. Sorry, there are not more folks who want to focus on old conspiracy theories. That's just the way it is. If conspirators killed Kennedy, they got away with it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "... people are not interested in your topics of interest."
> 
> Seems to hold your interest, huh?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah, he's evil.
Click to expand...


Elected FOUR times

Looks like the Republicans were evil


----------



## Skull Pilot

FDR prolonged the depression

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate


----------



## rightwinger

Skull Pilot said:


> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate



Seven Years?
Now you are just getting silly

Depression ended in 1939. Seven years would have ended it in 1932
FDR did not take office until March 1933


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate





rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seven Years?
> Now you are just getting silly
> 
> Depression ended in 1939. Seven years would have ended it in 1932
> FDR did not take office until 1932
Click to expand...

FDR inherited the Grear Depression and began making life easier for the American people as soon as he took office. They kept electing him over and over. People who lived in the Grear Depression and WWII loved, trusted,  and respected their President.


----------



## rightwinger

FDR turned the US into a modern Democracy

Trump is returning us to our isolationist past


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate


Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.


----------



## Camp

FDR found ways to put the unemployed to work building so much infrastructure that today, over 75 years later, much of it is still being used. Of course, all of the infrastructures were built by unemployed workers. They got paychecks, but the checks came indirectly or directly from US Government programs and projects, hence, they were relief workers and therefore listed today, especially by anti-FDR folks, as rhe same as welfare recipients, thus, unemployed.  People back then knew those working on the infrastructure projects were not unemployed.


----------



## Skull Pilot

rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seven Years?
> Now you are just getting silly
> 
> Depression ended in 1939. Seven years would have ended it in 1932
> FDR did not take office until March 1933
Click to expand...

REad the article


Two UCLA economists say they have figured out why the Great Depression dragged on for almost 15 years, and they blame a suspect previously thought to be beyond reproach: President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

After scrutinizing Roosevelt's record for four years, Harold L. Cole and Lee E. Ohanian conclude in a new study that New Deal policies signed into law 71 years ago thwarted economic recovery for seven long years.

"Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump," said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies."

In an article in the August issue of the Journal of Political Economy, Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor measures that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933.


 Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
Click to expand...


Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you


----------



## Camp

Anti-FDR folks always lose these discussions/debates. The reason, they have ideas and opinions, thoughts and views. Pro-FDR folks have tangible real provable things that can not be denied, People are still driving on the bridges, highways, and through the tunnels. Many people still use rhe local Post Offices built in the 1930's


----------



## rightwinger

Camp said:


> FDR found ways to put the unemployed to work building so much infrastructure that today, over 75 years later, much of it is still being used. Of course, all of the infrastructures were built by unemployed workers. They got paychecks, but the checks came indirectly or directly from US Government programs and projects, hence, they were relief workers and therefore listed today, especially by anti-FDR folks, as rhe same as welfare recipients, thus, unemployed.  People back then knew those working on the infrastructure projects were not unemployed.


Visit any national park and you can see their handiwork


----------



## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Anti-FDR folks always lose these discussions/debates. The reason, they have ideas and opinions, thoughts and views. Pro-FDR folks have tangible real provable things that can not be denied, People are still driving on the bridges, highways, and through the tunnels. M



Yeah FDR t

The guy who thought too much competition is what caused the great depression and allowed levels of corporate collusion that you would all be throwing tantrums about if a republican did it


----------



## rightwinger

Skull Pilot said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
Click to expand...


Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office


----------



## regent

Skull Pilot said:


> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate


Was that the whole UCLA Economics Department that arrived at that conclusion? Did other university economics departments agree with the findings? Did the History Department agree with the decision?
Why didn't FDR simply follow the Depression plan the economists had laid out?
If I remember there was no depression plan from economists and the Republican plan was "balance the budget."


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seven Years?
> Now you are just getting silly
> 
> Depression ended in 1939. Seven years would have ended it in 1932
> FDR did not take office until March 1933
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> REad the article
> 
> 
> Two UCLA economists say they have figured out why the Great Depression dragged on for almost 15 years, and they blame a suspect previously thought to be beyond reproach: President Franklin D. Roosevelt.
> 
> After scrutinizing Roosevelt's record for four years, Harold L. Cole and Lee E. Ohanian conclude in a new study that New Deal policies signed into law 71 years ago thwarted economic recovery for seven long years.
> 
> "Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump," said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies."
> 
> In an article in the August issue of the Journal of Political Economy, Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor measures that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933.
> 
> 
> Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
Click to expand...

Two professors wrote a magazine article. No one of standing has ever given it much attention. Only an opinionated magazine article that got laughed at.


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
Click to expand...

Not smarter than the other economists who dismissed their thesis as drivel.


----------



## Skull Pilot

rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
Click to expand...


Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943 

I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office

Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"



And read the article

Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.


----------



## Skull Pilot

regent said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Was that the whole UCLA Economics Department that arrived at that conclusion? Did other university economics departments agree with the findings? Did the History Department agree with the decision?
> Why didn't FDR simply follow the Depression plan the economists had laid out?
> If I remember there was no depression plan from economists and the Republican plan was "balance the budget."
Click to expand...


There are many others who agree as there are plenty of books and articles that say FDR prolonged the Depression 

The guys at UCLA just used data that others didn't use


----------



## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not smarter than the other economists who dismissed their thesis as drivel.
Click to expand...


LINK


----------



## rightwinger

Skull Pilot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
Click to expand...

1943?  Are you kidding?
In the middle of WWII?

The Depression ended in late 1938 with positive economic growth 
It is GDP (GNP) that determines when a depression end ps


----------



## CrusaderFrank

rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1943?  Are you kidding?
> In the middle of WWII?
> 
> The Depression ended in late 1938 with positive economic growth
> It is GDP (GNP) that determines when a depression end ps
Click to expand...


You're as wrong as Krugman


----------



## Camp

When FDR came into office the  Great Depression had been going on for four years. Banks had been closed and bank insurance did not exist. Doors were closed and locked and you could not get your money. Your money was gone forever. FDR changed that and made it a thing of the past.


----------



## CrusaderFrank

"Yes, I love FDR.  Good boy.  Let me command US forces in WWII. Gave me Eastern Europe, Bulgaria. What a guy"


----------



## Skull Pilot

rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1943?  Are you kidding?
> In the middle of WWII?
> 
> The Depression ended in late 1938 with positive economic growth
> It is GDP (GNP) that determines when a depression end ps
Click to expand...


So why was unemployment higher in 39 than 33?

In fact FDR', NIRA act was deemed unconstitutional and later reinvented but still allowed collusion that before FDR was illegal and that collusion is still illegal today


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
Click to expand...

Give us a link beside the dopey one by from rhe magazine article proclaiming the Depression ended in 1943. Also, provide one that says unemployment was rhe same in or higher in 1939 as it was in 1933. By rhe way, FDR was not the President in 1932. He was not inaugurated until March 4, 1933. You can't even get that right.


----------



## Skull Pilot

CrusaderFrank said:


> "Yes, I love FDR.  Good boy.  Let me command US forces in WWII. Gave me Eastern Europe, Bulgaria. What a guy"



How can anyone actually believe that a guy who's plan was to reduce competition and raise prices didn't prolong the Depression?


----------



## rightwinger

Skull Pilot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1943?  Are you kidding?
> In the middle of WWII?
> 
> The Depression ended in late 1938 with positive economic growth
> It is GDP (GNP) that determines when a depression end ps
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So why was unemployment higher in 39 than 33?
> 
> In fact FDR', NIRA act was deemed unconstitutional and later reinvented but still allowed collusion that before FDR was illegal and that collusion is still illegal today
Click to expand...

If you count those employed in government relief programs, unemployment was 10 percent

Great Depression, Great Recession - Roosevelt Institute

In 1933, the civilian unemployment rate was nearly 25 percent. If we count people in work-relief jobs as employed, the jobless range was about 10 percent by 1940. During FDR’s first term, GDP grew at an annual rate of about 9 percent. The GDP grew about 11 percent annually after 1937-38.


----------



## rightwinger

The New Deal brought relief to most Americans. Voters responded by electing FDR to an unprecedented four terms in good part because of his popular programs to help “the Forgotten Man.” No amount of conservative spin or revisionist history can change this fact. In the 1936 election, FDR carried 46 of the 48 states. *As conservatives cried “the economy will work itself out in the long run,” Harry Hopkins, a Roosevelt adviser, famously replied: “People don’t eat in the long run, they eat every day.”*


----------



## rightwinger

CrusaderFrank said:


> "Yes, I love FDR.  Good boy.  Let me command US forces in WWII. Gave me Eastern Europe, Bulgaria. What a guy"



Stalins Army already held Eastern Europe
How do you propose FDR get him out?


----------



## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give us a link besides rhe dopey one by from rhe magazine article proclaiming the Depression ended in 1943. Also, provide one that says unemployment was rhe same in or higher in 1939 as it was in 1933. By rhe way, FDR was not the President in 1932.
Click to expand...


I never said he was president in 32.

Great Depression Timeline

After all FDR's spending the UE rate dropped about 3% in 6 years

How can you really believe that a president who orders farmers to slaughter 6 million pigs in order to limit competition raise the price of pork was helping the economy?

Kind of reminds me of cash for clunkers, a policy that took millions of perfectly serviceable cars out of the economy and actually hurt the poor and middle class because they could not afford to buy new cars at the higher prices that the reduction of salable cars contributed to


----------



## Skull Pilot

rightwinger said:


> The New Deal brought relief to most Americans. Voters responded by electing FDR to an unprecedented four terms in good part because of his popular programs to help “the Forgotten Man.” No amount of conservative spin or revisionist history can change this fact. In the 1936 election, FDR carried 46 of the 48 states. *As conservatives cried “the economy will work itself out in the long run,” Harry Hopkins, a Roosevelt adviser, famously replied: “People don’t eat in the long run, they eat every day.”*



Can you point to anyone who thinks that limiting competition by allowing corporate collusion and raising prices is good economic policy?


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1943?  Are you kidding?
> In the middle of WWII?
> 
> The Depression ended in late 1938 with positive economic growth
> It is GDP (GNP) that determines when a depression end ps
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So why was unemployment higher in 39 than 33?
> 
> In fact FDR', NIRA act was deemed unconstitutional and later reinvented but still allowed collusion that before FDR was illegal and that collusion is still illegal today
Click to expand...

Wasn't. You have to prove that it was. You can not do it.


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> .....
> 
> Elected FOUR times......




Many dictators were elected over and over. You would need to have something of an education to understand why.


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> The New Deal brought relief to most Americans. Voters responded by electing FDR to an unprecedented four terms in good part because of his popular programs to help “the Forgotten Man.” No amount of conservative spin or revisionist history can change this fact. In the 1936 election, FDR carried 46 of the 48 states. *As conservatives cried “the economy will work itself out in the long run,” Harry Hopkins, a Roosevelt adviser, famously replied: “People don’t eat in the long run, they eat every day.”*




Did Chávez Help the Poor?


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pathetically stupid thesis rejected and mocked by everyone and anyone with a lick of education and common sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give us a link besides rhe dopey one by from rhe magazine article proclaiming the Depression ended in 1943. Also, provide one that says unemployment was rhe same in or higher in 1939 as it was in 1933. By rhe way, FDR was not the President in 1932.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never said he was president in 32.
> 
> Great Depression Timeline
> 
> After all FDR's spending the UE rate dropped about 3% in 6 years
> 
> How can you really believe that a president who orders farmers to slaughter 6 million pigs in order to limit competition raise the price of pork was helping the economy?
> 
> Kind of reminds me of cash for clunkers, a policy that took millions of perfectly serviceable cars out of the economy and actually hurt the poor and middle class because they could not afford to buy new cars at the higher prices that the reduction of salable cars contributed to
Click to expand...

You said he was elected in 1932. Ya, elected, but did not take office until March of '33. By rhe way, by 1941 unemployment was below 10% and by 42 and 43 below 5%. Hence, your economic whiz's are claiming below 10% is a depression, Most economist and historians have the depression ending in 1940.


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Was that the whole UCLA Economics Department that arrived at that conclusion? Did other university economics departments agree with the findings? Did the History Department agree with the decision?
> Why didn't FDR simply follow the Depression plan the economists had laid out?
> If I remember there was no depression plan from economists and the Republican plan was "balance the budget."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are many others who agree as there are plenty of books and articles that say FDR prolonged the Depression
> 
> The guys at UCLA just used data that others didn't use
Click to expand...




Skull Pilot said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Was that the whole UCLA Economics Department that arrived at that conclusion? Did other university economics departments agree with the findings? Did the History Department agree with the decision?
> Why didn't FDR simply follow the Depression plan the economists had laid out?
> If I remember there was no depression plan from economists and the Republican plan was "balance the budget."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are many others who agree as there are plenty of books and articles that say FDR prolonged the Depression
> 
> The guys at UCLA just used data that others didn't use
Click to expand...

Books? Can you name one? Articles, can you name or link any to an actual recognized economist or historian?


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The New Deal brought relief to most Americans. Voters responded by electing FDR to an unprecedented four terms in good part because of his popular programs to help “the Forgotten Man.” No amount of conservative spin or revisionist history can change this fact. In the 1936 election, FDR carried 46 of the 48 states. *As conservatives cried “the economy will work itself out in the long run,” Harry Hopkins, a Roosevelt adviser, famously replied: “People don’t eat in the long run, they eat every day.”*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did Chávez Help the Poor?
Click to expand...

And?


----------



## Camp

CrusaderFrank said:


> "Yes, I love FDR.  Good boy.  Let me command US forces in WWII. Gave me Eastern Europe, Bulgaria. What a guy"





CrusaderFrank said:


> "Yes, I love FDR.  Good boy.  Let me command US forces in WWII. Gave me Eastern Europe, Bulgaria. What a guy"


You are an uninformed uneducated fool. Bulgaria fought on rhe side of the Nazi's until Bulgaria was overrun and defeated by Russian forces in 1944 and which time they decided to switch sides and support the Russians.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1943?  Are you kidding?
> In the middle of WWII?
> 
> The Depression ended in late 1938 with positive economic growth
> It is GDP (GNP) that determines when a depression end ps
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So why was unemployment higher in 39 than 33?
> 
> In fact FDR', NIRA act was deemed unconstitutional and later reinvented but still allowed collusion that before FDR was illegal and that collusion is still illegal today
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wasn't. You have to prove that it was. You can not do it.
Click to expand...


The collusion wasn't illegal?

Then why was the NIRA found to be unconstitutional?


----------



## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Was that the whole UCLA Economics Department that arrived at that conclusion? Did other university economics departments agree with the findings? Did the History Department agree with the decision?
> Why didn't FDR simply follow the Depression plan the economists had laid out?
> If I remember there was no depression plan from economists and the Republican plan was "balance the budget."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are many others who agree as there are plenty of books and articles that say FDR prolonged the Depression
> 
> The guys at UCLA just used data that others didn't use
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR prolonged the depression
> 
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was that the whole UCLA Economics Department that arrived at that conclusion? Did other university economics departments agree with the findings? Did the History Department agree with the decision?
> Why didn't FDR simply follow the Depression plan the economists had laid out?
> If I remember there was no depression plan from economists and the Republican plan was "balance the budget."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There are many others who agree as there are plenty of books and articles that say FDR prolonged the Depression
> 
> The guys at UCLA just used data that others didn't use
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Books? Can you name one? Articles, can you name or link any to an actual recognized economist or historian?
Click to expand...


You can't use google?

Sowell
Jim Powell
Robert Higgs


----------



## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Except for the UCLA economists who I daresay are smarter than you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give us a link besides rhe dopey one by from rhe magazine article proclaiming the Depression ended in 1943. Also, provide one that says unemployment was rhe same in or higher in 1939 as it was in 1933. By rhe way, FDR was not the President in 1932.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never said he was president in 32.
> 
> Great Depression Timeline
> 
> After all FDR's spending the UE rate dropped about 3% in 6 years
> 
> How can you really believe that a president who orders farmers to slaughter 6 million pigs in order to limit competition raise the price of pork was helping the economy?
> 
> Kind of reminds me of cash for clunkers, a policy that took millions of perfectly serviceable cars out of the economy and actually hurt the poor and middle class because they could not afford to buy new cars at the higher prices that the reduction of salable cars contributed to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said he was elected in 1932. Ya, elected, but did not take office until March of '33. By rhe way, by 1941 unemployment was below 10% and by 42 and 43 below 5%. Hence, your economic whiz's are claiming below 10% is a depression, Most economist and historians have the depression ending in 1940.
Click to expand...


Yeah it took WWII to get us out of the Depression not FDR's policies that were designed to reduce competition and raise prices

Can you show me anyone who thinks government policy to allow collusion and violations of antitrust laws so as to decrease competition and raise prices is sound policy?


----------



## regent

Skull Pilot said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously they are not if they think FDR could have ended the Depression before he even took office
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Give us a link besides rhe dopey one by from rhe magazine article proclaiming the Depression ended in 1943. Also, provide one that says unemployment was rhe same in or higher in 1939 as it was in 1933. By rhe way, FDR was not the President in 1932.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never said he was president in 32.
> 
> Great Depression Timeline
> 
> After all FDR's spending the UE rate dropped about 3% in 6 years
> 
> How can you really believe that a president who orders farmers to slaughter 6 million pigs in order to limit competition raise the price of pork was helping the economy?
> 
> Kind of reminds me of cash for clunkers, a policy that took millions of perfectly serviceable cars out of the economy and actually hurt the poor and middle class because they could not afford to buy new cars at the higher prices that the reduction of salable cars contributed to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said he was elected in 1932. Ya, elected, but did not take office until March of '33. By rhe way, by 1941 unemployment was below 10% and by 42 and 43 below 5%. Hence, your economic whiz's are claiming below 10% is a depression, Most economist and historians have the depression ending in 1940.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah it took WWII to get us out of the Depression not FDR's policies that were designed to reduce competition and raise prices
> 
> Can you show me anyone who thinks government policy to allow collusion and violations of antitrust laws so as to decrease competition and raise prices is sound policy?
Click to expand...

If it took WWII for America to get out of the depression that is evidence that FDR's New Deal did not spend nearly enough.
The depression required war-time spending.  We  now know from FDR and the Great Depression that the amount of money spent must be ample. We also know from the same sources that the program to end the depression cannot be stopped as soon as their are indications the depression is leaving. At least we now have some kind of answer to depressions that we didn't have when FDR took office.


----------



## Skull Pilot

regent said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Roosevelt was elected in 1932 the Depression did not end until 1943
> 
> I don't know how you can say it ended in 1939 when unemployment in 1939 was HIGHER than it was when FDR took office
> 
> Shit FDR's own treasury secretary, Henry Morgenthau, said as much when he said, " “We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. . . . I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. . . . And an enormous debt to boot!”"
> 
> 
> 
> And read the article
> 
> Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943.
> 
> 
> 
> Give us a link besides rhe dopey one by from rhe magazine article proclaiming the Depression ended in 1943. Also, provide one that says unemployment was rhe same in or higher in 1939 as it was in 1933. By rhe way, FDR was not the President in 1932.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I never said he was president in 32.
> 
> Great Depression Timeline
> 
> After all FDR's spending the UE rate dropped about 3% in 6 years
> 
> How can you really believe that a president who orders farmers to slaughter 6 million pigs in order to limit competition raise the price of pork was helping the economy?
> 
> Kind of reminds me of cash for clunkers, a policy that took millions of perfectly serviceable cars out of the economy and actually hurt the poor and middle class because they could not afford to buy new cars at the higher prices that the reduction of salable cars contributed to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said he was elected in 1932. Ya, elected, but did not take office until March of '33. By rhe way, by 1941 unemployment was below 10% and by 42 and 43 below 5%. Hence, your economic whiz's are claiming below 10% is a depression, Most economist and historians have the depression ending in 1940.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah it took WWII to get us out of the Depression not FDR's policies that were designed to reduce competition and raise prices
> 
> Can you show me anyone who thinks government policy to allow collusion and violations of antitrust laws so as to decrease competition and raise prices is sound policy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it took WWII for America to get out of the depression that is evidence that FDR's New Deal did not spend nearly enough.
> The depression required war-time spending.  We  now know from FDR and the Great Depression that the amount of money spent must be ample. We also know from the same sources that the program to end the depression cannot be stopped as soon as their are indications the depression is leaving. At least we now have some kind of answer to depressions that we didn't have when FDR took office.
Click to expand...


So if a president today said he was going to abandon anti-trust law and allow corporate collusion do drive competition out of business and raise prices you would think it's a sound policy


----------



## rightwinger

Skull Pilot said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Give us a link besides rhe dopey one by from rhe magazine article proclaiming the Depression ended in 1943. Also, provide one that says unemployment was rhe same in or higher in 1939 as it was in 1933. By rhe way, FDR was not the President in 1932.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said he was president in 32.
> 
> Great Depression Timeline
> 
> After all FDR's spending the UE rate dropped about 3% in 6 years
> 
> How can you really believe that a president who orders farmers to slaughter 6 million pigs in order to limit competition raise the price of pork was helping the economy?
> 
> Kind of reminds me of cash for clunkers, a policy that took millions of perfectly serviceable cars out of the economy and actually hurt the poor and middle class because they could not afford to buy new cars at the higher prices that the reduction of salable cars contributed to
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You said he was elected in 1932. Ya, elected, but did not take office until March of '33. By rhe way, by 1941 unemployment was below 10% and by 42 and 43 below 5%. Hence, your economic whiz's are claiming below 10% is a depression, Most economist and historians have the depression ending in 1940.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah it took WWII to get us out of the Depression not FDR's policies that were designed to reduce competition and raise prices
> 
> Can you show me anyone who thinks government policy to allow collusion and violations of antitrust laws so as to decrease competition and raise prices is sound policy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it took WWII for America to get out of the depression that is evidence that FDR's New Deal did not spend nearly enough.
> The depression required war-time spending.  We  now know from FDR and the Great Depression that the amount of money spent must be ample. We also know from the same sources that the program to end the depression cannot be stopped as soon as their are indications the depression is leaving. At least we now have some kind of answer to depressions that we didn't have when FDR took office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So if a president today said he was going to abandon anti-trust law and allow corporate collusion do drive competition out of business and raise prices you would think it's a sound policy
Click to expand...


How about the time FDR took over all production in this country and told business what they could produce, who they could hire and what supplies they could get ?


----------



## Skull Pilot

rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said he was president in 32.
> 
> Great Depression Timeline
> 
> After all FDR's spending the UE rate dropped about 3% in 6 years
> 
> How can you really believe that a president who orders farmers to slaughter 6 million pigs in order to limit competition raise the price of pork was helping the economy?
> 
> Kind of reminds me of cash for clunkers, a policy that took millions of perfectly serviceable cars out of the economy and actually hurt the poor and middle class because they could not afford to buy new cars at the higher prices that the reduction of salable cars contributed to
> 
> 
> 
> You said he was elected in 1932. Ya, elected, but did not take office until March of '33. By rhe way, by 1941 unemployment was below 10% and by 42 and 43 below 5%. Hence, your economic whiz's are claiming below 10% is a depression, Most economist and historians have the depression ending in 1940.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah it took WWII to get us out of the Depression not FDR's policies that were designed to reduce competition and raise prices
> 
> Can you show me anyone who thinks government policy to allow collusion and violations of antitrust laws so as to decrease competition and raise prices is sound policy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it took WWII for America to get out of the depression that is evidence that FDR's New Deal did not spend nearly enough.
> The depression required war-time spending.  We  now know from FDR and the Great Depression that the amount of money spent must be ample. We also know from the same sources that the program to end the depression cannot be stopped as soon as their are indications the depression is leaving. At least we now have some kind of answer to depressions that we didn't have when FDR took office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So if a president today said he was going to abandon anti-trust law and allow corporate collusion do drive competition out of business and raise prices you would think it's a sound policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about the time FDR took over all production in this country and told business what they could produce, who they could hire and what supplies they could get ?
Click to expand...

And you refuse to answer my question

Is abandoning anti trust law and allowing corporate collusion to eliminate competition in order to drive up prices sound economic policy?

Does it make sense to slaughter 6 million pigs so as to drive up the price of pork when people were going hungry?

This is exactly what FDR did yet you celebrate him while you would certainly excoriate any president for doing so today


----------



## regent

One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market. 
The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.


----------



## rightwinger

Skull Pilot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said he was elected in 1932. Ya, elected, but did not take office until March of '33. By rhe way, by 1941 unemployment was below 10% and by 42 and 43 below 5%. Hence, your economic whiz's are claiming below 10% is a depression, Most economist and historians have the depression ending in 1940.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it took WWII to get us out of the Depression not FDR's policies that were designed to reduce competition and raise prices
> 
> Can you show me anyone who thinks government policy to allow collusion and violations of antitrust laws so as to decrease competition and raise prices is sound policy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If it took WWII for America to get out of the depression that is evidence that FDR's New Deal did not spend nearly enough.
> The depression required war-time spending.  We  now know from FDR and the Great Depression that the amount of money spent must be ample. We also know from the same sources that the program to end the depression cannot be stopped as soon as their are indications the depression is leaving. At least we now have some kind of answer to depressions that we didn't have when FDR took office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So if a president today said he was going to abandon anti-trust law and allow corporate collusion do drive competition out of business and raise prices you would think it's a sound policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about the time FDR took over all production in this country and told business what they could produce, who they could hire and what supplies they could get ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you refuse to answer my question
> 
> Is abandoning anti trust law and allowing corporate collusion to eliminate competition in order to drive up prices sound economic policy?
> 
> Does it make sense to slaughter 6 million pigs so as to drive up the price of pork when people were going hungry?
> 
> This is exactly what FDR did yet you celebrate him while you would certainly excoriate any president for doing so today
Click to expand...

Desperate times call for desperate measures


----------



## jillian

rightwinger said:


> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda bubble that the FDR legacy rests on is awesome. FDR was elected in 1932 and under his ineffective "leadership" the relatively mild recession turned into a freaking bodies in the ditch soup line depression for his next two terms. FDR appointed a former KKK member to the supreme court and the bigot paid him back with a judicial decision that justified incarcerating American citizens and confiscating their property without due process. The FDR administration's racist view of the Japanese led to one of the most notorious examples of negligence in American history when the Japanese killed 3,000 Americans in the Pearl Harbor attack. Thanks to the unrelenting propaganda of the fawning media the Pearl Harbor attack was viewed as some sort of victory. Democrats finally wheeled a virtual corpse around to campaign for his 4th term and true to form the media pretended that FDR was healthy while he was practically comatose due to several strokes. The DNC knew it and dumped the sitting V.P. while he was on vacation and hired a successor. FDR lasted about three months into his 4th term and his medical records disappeared.  Almost everything we were taught about the FDR years was political propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> You were doing fine until you characterized the Great Depression as a "mild recession"
> I stopped reading after that
Click to expand...

You made it further than I did


----------



## regent

Hoover's plan to end the depression was to loan business money so they could continue manufacturing products.  the public had no money to buy. Do Republicans have any other plan to fight depressions and recessions, except Hoover's RFC or their balance the budget plan? They certainly wouldn't use FDR's plan to have the government get involved--or would they?


----------



## rightwinger

regent said:


> Hoover's plan to end the depression was to loan business money so they could continue manufacturing products.  the public had no money to buy. Do Republicans have any other plan to fight depressions and recessions, except Hoover's RFC or their balance the budget plan? They certainly wouldn't use FDR's plan to have the government get involved--or would they?


Hoover’s plan was “prosperity is just around the corner”
Just let the economy work itself out

FDR realized you just can’t let the economy work itself out. People have to eat every day, you can’t just let people suffer while you wait for trickle down


----------



## Camp

jillian said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whitehall said:
> 
> 
> 
> The propaganda bubble that the FDR legacy rests on is awesome. FDR was elected in 1932 and under his ineffective "leadership" the relatively mild recession turned into a freaking bodies in the ditch soup line depression for his next two terms. FDR appointed a former KKK member to the supreme court and the bigot paid him back with a judicial decision that justified incarcerating American citizens and confiscating their property without due process. The FDR administration's racist view of the Japanese led to one of the most notorious examples of negligence in American history when the Japanese killed 3,000 Americans in the Pearl Harbor attack. Thanks to the unrelenting propaganda of the fawning media the Pearl Harbor attack was viewed as some sort of victory. Democrats finally wheeled a virtual corpse around to campaign for his 4th term and true to form the media pretended that FDR was healthy while he was practically comatose due to several strokes. The DNC knew it and dumped the sitting V.P. while he was on vacation and hired a successor. FDR lasted about three months into his 4th term and his medical records disappeared.  Almost everything we were taught about the FDR years was political propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> You were doing fine until you characterized the Great Depression as a "mild recession"
> I stopped reading after that
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You made it further than I did
Click to expand...

One of rhe most silly posts in this thread. "Mild recession" to describe a crashed stock market, 25% unemployment and banks closing and going bankrupt from coast to coast.  But, the poster calls that a "mild recession".


----------



## Camp

regent said:


> Hoover's plan to end the depression was to loan business money so they could continue manufacturing products.  the public had no money to buy. Do Republicans have any other plan to fight depressions and recessions, except Hoover's RFC or their balance the budget plan? They certainly wouldn't use FDR's plan to have the government get involved--or would they?


FDR guaranteed loans for state governments for infrastructure projects such as roads, bridges, public buildings, schools utility systems, etc., using gold in the federal reserve as collateral and creating jobs for citizens.  All of those loans were paid back in full. It was hailed as a brilliant solution and key element in making rhe GB survivable for millions of Americans who would be listed as unemployed, even to this day, and considered as "welfare recipients" as they constructed infrastructure, much of which is still being used today.


----------



## Skull Pilot

rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it took WWII to get us out of the Depression not FDR's policies that were designed to reduce competition and raise prices
> 
> Can you show me anyone who thinks government policy to allow collusion and violations of antitrust laws so as to decrease competition and raise prices is sound policy?
> 
> 
> 
> If it took WWII for America to get out of the depression that is evidence that FDR's New Deal did not spend nearly enough.
> The depression required war-time spending.  We  now know from FDR and the Great Depression that the amount of money spent must be ample. We also know from the same sources that the program to end the depression cannot be stopped as soon as their are indications the depression is leaving. At least we now have some kind of answer to depressions that we didn't have when FDR took office.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So if a president today said he was going to abandon anti-trust law and allow corporate collusion do drive competition out of business and raise prices you would think it's a sound policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about the time FDR took over all production in this country and told business what they could produce, who they could hire and what supplies they could get ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you refuse to answer my question
> 
> Is abandoning anti trust law and allowing corporate collusion to eliminate competition in order to drive up prices sound economic policy?
> 
> Does it make sense to slaughter 6 million pigs so as to drive up the price of pork when people were going hungry?
> 
> This is exactly what FDR did yet you celebrate him while you would certainly excoriate any president for doing so today
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Desperate times call for desperate measures
Click to expand...


The times wouldn't have been so desperate if not for FDR's unconstitutional polices


----------



## Skull Pilot

regent said:


> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.


And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional


----------



## Camp

Skull Pilot said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> 
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
Click to expand...




Skull Pilot said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> 
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
Click to expand...

NIRA was set to expire in June of 1935. Declared as unconstitutional on May 27, 1935, the ruling had no effect and was met with a shrug and no challenge as the administration had already begun other programs, making NIRA obsolete.


----------



## OldLady

rightwinger said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hoover's plan to end the depression was to loan business money so they could continue manufacturing products.  the public had no money to buy. Do Republicans have any other plan to fight depressions and recessions, except Hoover's RFC or their balance the budget plan? They certainly wouldn't use FDR's plan to have the government get involved--or would they?
> 
> 
> 
> Hoover’s plan was “prosperity is just around the corner”
> Just let the economy work itself out
> 
> FDR realized you just can’t let the economy work itself out. People have to eat every day, you can’t just let people suffer while you wait for trickle down
Click to expand...

The communists were licking their chops to get at us when the Depression hit.  Hungry people like the sound of sharing the wealth.


----------



## Camp

Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.


----------



## rightwinger

Camp said:


> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.



Right man at the right time

Imagine if we had a Republican running things?


----------



## rightwinger

OldLady said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hoover's plan to end the depression was to loan business money so they could continue manufacturing products.  the public had no money to buy. Do Republicans have any other plan to fight depressions and recessions, except Hoover's RFC or their balance the budget plan? They certainly wouldn't use FDR's plan to have the government get involved--or would they?
> 
> 
> 
> Hoover’s plan was “prosperity is just around the corner”
> Just let the economy work itself out
> 
> FDR realized you just can’t let the economy work itself out. People have to eat every day, you can’t just let people suffer while you wait for trickle down
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The communists were licking their chops to get at us when the Depression hit.  Hungry people like the sound of sharing the wealth.
Click to expand...

They were looking for a fair deal
They weren’t getting it


----------



## Camp

rightwinger said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right man at the right time
> 
> Imagine if we had a Republican running things?
Click to expand...




rightwinger said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right man at the right time
> 
> Imagine if we had a Republican running things?
Click to expand...

Coolidge and Hoover gave Republicans 12 years of Presidential control.  The result was obscene wealth for a small percentage of the richest Americans and destitution and starvation for the poor and working class along with rhe worst depression in history. And the depression went global causing fascism and authoritarian dictatorships in Europe which eventually led to WWII.


----------



## rightwinger

Camp said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right man at the right time
> 
> Imagine if we had a Republican running things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right man at the right time
> 
> Imagine if we had a Republican running things?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Coolidge and Hoover gave Republicans 12 years of Presidential control.  The result was obscene wealth for a small percentage of the richest Americans and destitution and starvation for the poor and working class along with rhe worst depression in history. And the depression went global causing fascism and authoritarian dictatorships in Europe which eventually led to WWII.
Click to expand...

You forgot Harding, one of the worst Presidents in history and the most like Trump in his personal failings


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.




So was Saddam Hussein, I guess. He was re-elected by wide margins.


----------



## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So was Saddam Hussein, I guess. He was re-elected by wide margins.
Click to expand...

Oh, great, now we are comparing Sadam era Iraq elections to American elections of the 1930's and 40's. Because Iraq during rhe 1980's and 90's was just like America in rhe 1930's and 49's.


----------



## rightwinger

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So was Saddam Hussein, I guess. He was re-elected by wide margins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, great, now we are comparing Sadam era Iraq elections to American elections of the 1930's and 40's. Because Iraq during rhe 1980's and 90's was just like America in rhe 1930's and 49's.
Click to expand...

Hyperbole is all he has


----------



## regent

The Democrats give us FDR and the Republicans give us Trump.















the


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So was Saddam Hussein, I guess. He was re-elected by wide margins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, great, now we are comparing Sadam era Iraq elections to American elections of the 1930's and 40's. Because Iraq during rhe 1980's and 90's was just like America in rhe 1930's and 49's.
Click to expand...






You set the standard. I just pointed out another example. Need some more? Or are you starting to get the idea of why we had to amend the Constitution after the fucking scumbag fdr?


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> The Democrats give us FDR and the Republicans give us Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the




So far, trump has overseen low unemployment and historic economic growth. The scumbag fdr ordered innocent Americans into concentration camps.


----------



## rightwinger

Skull Pilot said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it took WWII for America to get out of the depression that is evidence that FDR's New Deal did not spend nearly enough.
> The depression required war-time spending.  We  now know from FDR and the Great Depression that the amount of money spent must be ample. We also know from the same sources that the program to end the depression cannot be stopped as soon as their are indications the depression is leaving. At least we now have some kind of answer to depressions that we didn't have when FDR took office.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if a president today said he was going to abandon anti-trust law and allow corporate collusion do drive competition out of business and raise prices you would think it's a sound policy
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about the time FDR took over all production in this country and told business what they could produce, who they could hire and what supplies they could get ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And you refuse to answer my question
> 
> Is abandoning anti trust law and allowing corporate collusion to eliminate competition in order to drive up prices sound economic policy?
> 
> Does it make sense to slaughter 6 million pigs so as to drive up the price of pork when people were going hungry?
> 
> This is exactly what FDR did yet you celebrate him while you would certainly excoriate any president for doing so today
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Desperate times call for desperate measures
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The times wouldn't have been so desperate if not for FDR's unconstitutional polices
Click to expand...

We were already three years into the Great Depression 
FDR saved the country

Then he saved the world for Democracy


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Democrats give us FDR and the Republicans give us Trump.
> 
> 
> 
> the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far, trump has overseen low unemployment and historic economic growth. The scumbag fdr ordered innocent Americans into concentration camps.
Click to expand...


The Great Obama had better growth and created more jobs


----------



## regent

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So was Saddam Hussein, I guess. He was re-elected by wide margins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, great, now we are comparing Sadam era Iraq elections to American elections of the 1930's and 40's. Because Iraq during rhe 1980's and 90's was just like America in rhe 1930's and 49's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You set the standard. I just pointed out another example. Need some more? Or are you starting to get the idea of why we had to amend the Constitution after the fucking scumbag fdr?
Click to expand...

"We" didn't have to amend the Constitution after FDR, it was the Republicans that were behind the amendment. Apparently the Republicans were fearful that in the future Iraq would elect Saddam.  Good move Republicans.


----------



## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> 
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NIRA was set to expire in June of 1935. Declared as unconstitutional on May 27, 1935, the ruling had no effect and was met with a shrug and no challenge as the administration had already begun other programs, making NIRA obsolete.
Click to expand...

So you still applaud a president who violated the constitution

I take it you'd be in agreement if another president threw anti trust laws out the window in order to let corporations collude to drive competition out of business and raise prices


----------



## Skull Pilot

Camp said:


> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.



PEople are sheep


----------



## rightwinger

Skull Pilot said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> 
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NIRA was set to expire in June of 1935. Declared as unconstitutional on May 27, 1935, the ruling had no effect and was met with a shrug and no challenge as the administration had already begun other programs, making NIRA obsolete.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you still applaud a president who violated the constitution
> 
> I take it you'd be in agreement if another president threw anti trust laws out the window in order to let corporations collude to drive competition out of business and raise prices
Click to expand...


The only other President who faced national crisis as bad as FDR was Lincoln

Both did what needed to be done to save the country
They are considered our two greatest Presidents


----------



## Skull Pilot

rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> 
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NIRA was set to expire in June of 1935. Declared as unconstitutional on May 27, 1935, the ruling had no effect and was met with a shrug and no challenge as the administration had already begun other programs, making NIRA obsolete.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you still applaud a president who violated the constitution
> 
> I take it you'd be in agreement if another president threw anti trust laws out the window in order to let corporations collude to drive competition out of business and raise prices
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only other President who faced national crisis as bad as FDR was Lincoln
> 
> Both did what needed to be done to save the country
> They are considered our two greatest Presidents
Click to expand...


What did Lincoln do that was unconstitutional?

By definition if a president violates the Constitution he is not a great president because he has violated his oath of office

_I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States._


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## SobieskiSavedEurope

FDR had created some good economic growth,  and ideas. With that said he also was a war criminal, for internment of Japanese, for his admin's bombing of Dresden, and for being involved in the Soviet take-over of most of Central Europe in Tehran, and Yalta Conferences.


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## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
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> Camp said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> Camp said:
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> 
> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So was Saddam Hussein, I guess. He was re-elected by wide margins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, great, now we are comparing Sadam era Iraq elections to American elections of the 1930's and 40's. Because Iraq during rhe 1980's and 90's was just like America in rhe 1930's and 49's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You set the standard. I just pointed out another example. Need some more? Or are you starting to get the idea of why we had to amend the Constitution after the fucking scumbag fdr?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "We" didn't have to amend the Constitution after FDR, it was the Republicans that were behind the amendment. ....
Click to expand...


democrats supported it also.


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## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> Camp said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> Camp said:
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> Funny how political ideologues whine and criticize FDR 80 or 90 years after his era, but the folks who lived during that period and era kept electing him over and over. He was truly a beloved President.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So was Saddam Hussein, I guess. He was re-elected by wide margins.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh, great, now we are comparing Sadam era Iraq elections to American elections of the 1930's and 40's. Because Iraq during rhe 1980's and 90's was just like America in rhe 1930's and 49's.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You set the standard. I just pointed out another example. Need some more? Or are you starting to get the idea of why we had to amend the Constitution after the fucking scumbag fdr?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "We" didn't have to amend the Constitution after FDR, it was the Republicans that were behind the amendment. ....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> democrats supported it also.[/QUOT
> Just as Republicans supported the Internment camps.
Click to expand...


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## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Skull Pilot said:
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> Camp said:
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> Skull Pilot said:
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> regent said:
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> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> 
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NIRA was set to expire in June of 1935. Declared as unconstitutional on May 27, 1935, the ruling had no effect and was met with a shrug and no challenge as the administration had already begun other programs, making NIRA obsolete.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you still applaud a president who violated the constitution
> 
> I take it you'd be in agreement if another president threw anti trust laws out the window in order to let corporations collude to drive competition out of business and raise prices
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only other President who faced national crisis as bad as FDR was Lincoln
> 
> Both did what needed to be done to save the country
> They are considered our two greatest Presidents
Click to expand...




Brave, loyal, innocent Americans didn’t need to be thrown into concentration camps “to save the country.”


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## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
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> Skull Pilot said:
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> Camp said:
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> Skull Pilot said:
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> regent said:
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> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> 
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the Great Depression was that selling prices dropped so low that it cost more to make the product than it  could be sold  for. The example of that was in the farms. It cost more to feed the pigs than the prlce the farmer could get if he sold the pigs. Pigs were destroyed with other farm products because the pigs were to costly to even market.
> The NIRA was an attempt to make sure a profit could be made on products. It failed because businessmen set the profit margin too high.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NIRA was set to expire in June of 1935. Declared as unconstitutional on May 27, 1935, the ruling had no effect and was met with a shrug and no challenge as the administration had already begun other programs, making NIRA obsolete.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you still applaud a president who violated the constitution
> 
> I take it you'd be in agreement if another president threw anti trust laws out the window in order to let corporations collude to drive competition out of business and raise prices
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only other President who faced national crisis as bad as FDR was Lincoln
> 
> Both did what needed to be done to save the country
> They are considered our two greatest Presidents
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brave, loyal, innocent Americans didn’t need to be thrown into concentration camps “to save the country.”
Click to expand...


Kept them from becoming terrorists and sabatoers 

There were no further attacks after Pearl Harbor


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## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
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> 
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> rightwinger said:
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> Skull Pilot said:
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> 
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> Camp said:
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> 
> Skull Pilot said:
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> 
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skull Pilot said:
> 
> 
> 
> And the NIRA was found to be unconstitutional
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> NIRA was set to expire in June of 1935. Declared as unconstitutional on May 27, 1935, the ruling had no effect and was met with a shrug and no challenge as the administration had already begun other programs, making NIRA obsolete.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So you still applaud a president who violated the constitution
> 
> I take it you'd be in agreement if another president threw anti trust laws out the window in order to let corporations collude to drive competition out of business and raise prices
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only other President who faced national crisis as bad as FDR was Lincoln
> 
> Both did what needed to be done to save the country
> They are considered our two greatest Presidents
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brave, loyal, innocent Americans didn’t need to be thrown into concentration camps “to save the country.”
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Kept them from becoming terrorists and sabatoers
> 
> ...
Click to expand...



By the same un-American illogic, we had better throw your ass in jail to make sure you don’t commit any crime.


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## regent

Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.


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## Unkotare

regent said:


> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.




Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.


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## regent

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
Click to expand...

So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?


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## Wyatt earp

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
Click to expand...


Historians are liberal


.


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## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
Click to expand...



Follow the money, you dunce.

Abiding by the dictates of the Liberals who run academia, they put bread on the table.

The proof is that FDR boot-lickers, you, can never refute the charges brought against him in these threads.


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## Unkotare

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
Click to expand...





Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.


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## PoliticalChic

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
Click to expand...




You're far too kind to reggie....

He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.


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## regent

PoliticalChic said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Unkotare said:
> 
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> 
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> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
Click to expand...

So what is your best argument that I'm wrong: "low life liberal" or "scumbag"? Both are tremendous pieces of evidence, and I quake when I hear them.


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## Billy_Kinetta

regent said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
Click to expand...


Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.

FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.

He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.


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## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is your best argument that I'm wrong: "low life liberal" or "scumbag"? Both are tremendous pieces of evidence, and I quake when I hear them.
Click to expand...




I've never used that second term.....you must have heard it from lots of others.


FDR?

Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..



1. Roosevelt offered up the lives of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin


2. He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death: the creation of the United Nations


3. He extended the Depression by years.


4. He disposed of the Constitution


5. He imposed Mussolini's Fascist policies and called it 'the New Deal


6. He turned over command of our military actions in WWII to Stalin, and cost multiple thousands of US soldiers' deaths.


7. He made certain that communism survived the war, and thrived afterwards.


8. Without his efforts, there would be no Red China, no Korean War, and no Vietnamese War


*9. ...and he is the proximate explanation for the cultural Marxism prevalent in society today.*


And, he inspired lying Leftists like you.






If only Roosevelt had a mind of his own, and had, as his priority, what was good for America and Americans.

1. He would have recognized how evil Stalin and communism is/was.

2. He would have done what the experts advised, and made certain that Hitler and Stalin destroyed each other.

3. He would have given the anti-Nazi Germans the same support he gave the resistance in every other nation.

4. The war would have ended some 3-5 years earlier, with a half million fewer American casualties.

5.Both Nazi and Marxist butchers would have received their due justice.

6. No 'Cold War.'

7. The Constitution would be our 'law of the land.'


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## PoliticalChic

Billy_Kinetta said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a great wartime president because he let the generals conduct the war.
Click to expand...



"He was a great wartime president because he let the generals conduct the war."


I'm gonna have to disagree with your last sentence, Billy.


1. I*n his tireless and unending efforts to placate, favor, win the approval of homicidal maniac Joseph Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt offered up the lives of 150,000 American soldiers in said endeavor.*



Lend lease was a mistake in that it prioritized materials for Russia that were sorely needed by American troops.

Allowing Stalin to determine the location of a 'second front' over the objections of American generals, and of Winston Churchill, was a mistake.

But the worst blunder was bowing to *Stalin's demands that Germany be pulverized, reduced to ashes, rather than be allowed to surrender.....the doctrine of 'unconditional surrender'....was the very worst.*



2. Franklin *Roosevelt was known to fabricate *all sorts of things...that he wrote Haiti's constitution, that his cabinet would be made to swear to a balanced budget, that he came up with the idea of 'Lend Lease,'....none of which are true.
He also put out the idea that 'unconditional surrender' of Germany originated with him.

Robert Sherwood, Harry Hopkins official biographer, quotes Roosevelt as saying "The thought popped into my mind...and the next thing I knew I had said it."
Sherwood, "The White House Papers of Harry L. Hopkins; Vol II," p. 693



Actually, the policy was first mentioned in January of 1943, at the Casablanca Conference.

a. The State Department Casablanca Conference records explains that this controversial surrender policy came from *a meeting of a State Department and Council on Foreign Relations panel. *

BTW....that was the same panel with "...working alongside him in the Council was *Alger Hiss*, a newly elected member sympathetic to the left wing of the Democratic Party,..."
The group functioned via this mantra: *"Cooperation between the United States and the Soviet Union is as essential as almost anything in the world today,* and unless and until it becomes entirely evident that the U.S.S.R. is not interested in achieving cooperation, we must redouble, not abandon, our efforts, when the task proves difficult."
About CFR


Since the group briefed Roosevelt prior to January 1943, clearly the idea of 'unconditional surrender did not originate with Roosevelt.
Churchill knew nothing of the plan.


3. Actually, the very first use of the phrase 'unconditional surrender" at Casablanca was by Stalin's spy *Harry Hopkins.* One day earlier, January 23, before the President announced it, Hopkins told the grand vizier of Morocco, "The war will be pursued until Germany, Italy, and Japan agree to unconditional surrender."
"Harry Hopkins: Ally of the Poor and Defender of Democracy," by George McJimsey, p.277
and FRUS: Washington and Casablanca, p. 703.



4. When, on January 24, 1943, Roosevelt read several pages of notes discussing the doctrine to reporters, according to Sherwood, *"carefully prepared in advance,".*..one might ask who regularly prepared and edited said notes.

a. *Harry Hopkins*,- FDR's alter ego, co-president, or Rasputin, "...the closest and most influential adviser to President Franklin D. Roosevelt during World War II, was *a Soviet agent."* and “the most important of all Soviet wartime agents in the United States.”The Treachery Of Harry Hopkins
The Treachery Of Harry Hopkins


b. Life magazine ran a spread on Hopkins on September 22, 1941, calling his a one-man cabinet to Roosevelt. In fact, he lived at the White House, in the Lincoln Bedroom, from May 1940 to December 1943.
LIFE - Google Books, p. 93.

c. Elliott [Roosevelt, FDR's son] attributes this comment to his father: *"Of course, it's just the thing for the Russians. They couldn't want anything better. Unconditional surrender! Uncle Joe might have made it up himself."*
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p.122




And so was born Allied doctrine.
And the policy that ensured Soviet domination over half of Europe....at the cost of American lives and treasure....

*Any guess as to where the policy actually originated?*



5. *[The 'unconditional surrender policy] helped prolong the war in Europe *through its usefulness to German domestic propaganda that used it to encourage further resistance against the Allied armies, *and its suppressive effect on the German resistance movement *since even after a coup against Adolf Hitler:

"...those Germans — and particularly those *German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by *their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country."
Michael Balfour, "Another Look at 'Unconditional Surrender'",_International Affairs_(Royal Institute of International Affairs 1944-), Vol. 46, No. 4 (Oct., 1970), pp. 719-736



6. To get an idea of the cost of the extended war...*."....over one hundred thirty-five thousand American GIs died – *a startling figure today – between D day[june 6, 1944] and V-E day,[May 8, 1945]...."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence

Get that?

135,000 brave American boys whose lives were offered up as a gift to Stalin....to make certain that communism survived.


Based on the ratio of deaths to wounded, that would suggest almost *an additional 200,000 wounded, just between Normandy and Germany's surrender.*

Totally attributed to 'unconditional surrender'.....the policy demanded by Stalin.


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
Click to expand...

He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  His knowledge and opinion come from first-hand empirical data. He is not just voicing an opinion based on guessing and partisan hearsay.  He lived in the era and earned his rights as a WWII Combat veteran. 
Go ahead and gang up on him and disparage him. No doubt his island hopping experiences in the Pacific during WWII made him tough enough to deal with you internet tough guys.


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## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
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> 
> 
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> Unkotare said:
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> regent said:
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> Unkotare said:
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> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
Click to expand...



And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.

Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:


Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..



1. Roosevelt offered up the lives of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin


2. He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death: the creation of the United Nations


3. He extended the Depression by years.


4. He disposed of the Constitution


5. He imposed Mussolini's Fascist policies and called it 'the New Deal


6. He turned over command of our military actions in WWII to Stalin, and cost multiple thousands of US soldiers' deaths.


7. He made certain that communism survived the war, and thrived afterwards.


8. Without his efforts, there would be no Red China, no Korean War, and no Vietnamese War


*9. ...and he is the proximate explanation for the cultural Marxism prevalent in society today.*


And, he inspired lying Leftists like you.






If only Roosevelt had a mind of his own, and had, as his priority, what was good for America and Americans.

1. He would have recognized how evil Stalin and communism is/was.

2. He would have done what the experts advised, and made certain that Hitler and Stalin destroyed each other.

3. He would have given the anti-Nazi Germans the same support he gave the resistance in every other nation.

4. The war would have ended some 3-5 years earlier, with a half million fewer American casualties.

5.Both Nazi and Marxist butchers would have received their due justice.

6. No 'Cold War.'

7. The Constitution would be our 'law of the land.'



You should stop lying about FDR.


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## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.
> 
> Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Your crap revisionist history has been refuted for years hear. You post rhe same old stuff promoted by partisans in fear of Clinton bringing New Deal programs into the 90's and rehashed ever since but always refuted and debunked. My family lived through the GD and some served in WWII. Not all of them came home. I grew up hearing the stories.


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## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.
> 
> Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your crap revisionist history has been refuted for years hear. You post rhe same old stuff promoted by partisans in fear of Clinton bringing New Deal programs into the 90's and rehashed ever since but always refuted and debunked. My family lived through the GD and some served in WWII. Not all of them came home. I grew up hearing the stories.
Click to expand...




Let's see you refute anything I've posted.....either that or admit you're a low-life lying Liberal.


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## rightwinger

Billy_Kinetta said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
Click to expand...

Those lists have consistently ranked FDR as one of our greatest presidents for 70 years 

Hardly a popularity contest

He was a great wartime president because he took control of the economy  and the military and selected the best people


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## rightwinger

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.
> 
> Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your crap revisionist history has been refuted for years hear. You post rhe same old stuff promoted by partisans in fear of Clinton bringing New Deal programs into the 90's and rehashed ever since but always refuted and debunked. My family lived through the GD and some served in WWII. Not all of them came home. I grew up hearing the stories.
Click to expand...

FDR saved our nation and led us into becoming a modern democracy


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## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.
> 
> Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:
> 
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Roosevelt offered up the lives of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

"Roosevelr offered up rhe live of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master Joseph "Koba" Stalin."  #1 on the PC revisionist history list. 
PURE BULL CRAP

Russia lost over 20 million military and civilian lives in WWII fighting the Germans and their East European axis, including troops and assistance from Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and nations that provided volunteers to the German military like Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and the Balkans, all East Europeans.   The US did not send Armies into those regions. The US did not lose millions of men conquering and taking control of those nations.

US and western strategy called for the development of western Europe. Made sense and an important factor to remember and be aware of is FDR died before the war ended and no one knows how he would have handled situations that arose after the war ended. Makes speculative claims of FDR offering up lives of East Europeans Pure Bull Crap. He simply agreed on not risking or offering up hundreds of thousands of American lives and billions of dollars fighting a new war, this one with  Russia for war-torn and ravaged Eastern Europe.

All of PC's goofy partisan revisionism can be refuted and debunked.


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## regent

Billy_Kinetta said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
Click to expand...

So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.


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## rightwinger

Western Europe owes its existence to FDR


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## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is your best argument that I'm wrong: "low life liberal" or "scumbag"? Both are tremendous pieces of evidence, and I quake when I hear them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never used that second term.....you must have heard it from lots of others.
> 
> 
> FDR?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 2. He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death: the creation of the United Nations
Click to expand...

Revisionist history #2 on PC's list. 
"He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."

UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR.


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## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.
> 
> Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:
> 
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Roosevelt offered up the lives of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Roosevelr offered up rhe live of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master Joseph "Koba" Stalin."  #1 on the PC revisionist history list.
> PURE BULL CRAP
> 
> Russia lost over 20 million military and civilian lives in WWII fighting the Germans and their East European axis, including troops and assistance from Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and nations that provided volunteers to the German military like Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and the Balkans, all East Europeans.   The US did not send Armies into those regions. The US did not lose millions of men conquering and taking control of those nations.
> 
> US and western strategy called for the development of western Europe. Made sense and an important factor to remember and be aware of is FDR died before the war ended and no one knows how he would have handled situations that arose after the war ended. Makes speculative claims of FDR offering up lives of East Europeans Pure Bull Crap. He simply agreed on not risking or offering up hundreds of thousands of American lives and billions of dollars fighting a new war, this one with  Russia for war-torn and ravaged Eastern Europe.
> 
> All of PC's goofy partisan revisionism can be refuted and debunked.
Click to expand...




"Roosevelr offered up rhe live of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master Joseph "Koba" Stalin." #1 on the PC revisionist history list."


Absolutely true....as is everything I post.

1. The best place to attack Germany was straight up through Italy, which had already surrendered.
Even Eisenhower thought so.

2. Stalin demanded that the attack be far, far northwest, at Normandy.

3. This was so that fully half of Europe would be left to the tender mercies of the Red Army.

4. FDR simply bent over and grabbed his ankles....and forced D Day via Normandy.


5. *Evidence can be seen in a document which Hopkins took with him to the Quebec conference in August, 1943, entitled "Russia's Position," quoted as follows in Robert Sherwood's book, "Roosevelt and Hopkins: An Intimate History,":*
*"Russia's post-war position in Europe will be a dominant one. With Germany crushed, there is no power in Europe to oppose her tremendous military forces."*




NEXT:
"Russia lost over 20 million military and civilian lives in WWII ..."

Most killed by STALIN!!!

Watch this, you fool:

*"Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"*
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin


"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost." Georgy Zhukov hero file | moreorless.net.au


Russians would do anything not to return to Roosevelt's pal's 'paradise.'

4. The 850,000 strong army of Gen. Andrei Andreyevich Vlasov, having *gone to the other side, Germany, "to save their country from Stalin" *and having later surrendered to US forces, "formed the core of those forcebly repatritated between 1944 and 1947." 

 "Operation Keelhaul; The Story of Forced Repatriation from 1944 to the Present.by Julius Epstein  p.27, 53.


a. Gen. Deniken, former commanding general of the White Russian armies which were supported by the USA in 1917-1920, explained that *none of these men served in the Nazi army out of love for Germany..."they hated the Germans" he wrote....rather, they knew what awaited them in the 'Soviet paradise.'*



*More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal"byNikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.*





*World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.*



Everything I post is documented, sourced, and linked.


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## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
Click to expand...








German and Soviet troops shaking hands following the invasion


Allies until 1941


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.
> 
> Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:
> 
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Roosevelt offered up the lives of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Roosevelr offered up rhe live of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master Joseph "Koba" Stalin."  #1 on the PC revisionist history list.
> PURE BULL CRAP
> 
> Russia lost over 20 million military and civilian lives in WWII fighting the Germans and their East European axis, including troops and assistance from Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and nations that provided volunteers to the German military like Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and the Balkans, all East Europeans.   The US did not send Armies into those regions. The US did not lose millions of men conquering and taking control of those nations.
> 
> US and western strategy called for the development of western Europe. Made sense and an important factor to remember and be aware of is FDR died before the war ended and no one knows how he would have handled situations that arose after the war ended. Makes speculative claims of FDR offering up lives of East Europeans Pure Bull Crap. He simply agreed on not risking or offering up hundreds of thousands of American lives and billions of dollars fighting a new war, this one with  Russia for war-torn and ravaged Eastern Europe.
> 
> All of PC's goofy partisan revisionism can be refuted and debunked.
Click to expand...




"The US did not send Armies into those regions. The US did not lose millions of men conquering and taking control of those nations."


FDR died April 12th..but, based on Marshall's order,  the White House clearly knew of the following prior to that:

" By May 15, 1945, the Pentagon believed *25,000 American POWs "liberated" by the Red Army were still being held hostage to Soviet demands* that all "Soviet citizens" be returned to Soviet control, "without exception" and by force if necessary, as agreed to at the Yalta Conference in February 1945. When the U.S. refused to return some military formations composed of Soviet citizens, such as the First Ukrainian SS Division, Stalin retaliated by returning only 4,116 of the hostage American POWs. On June 1, 1945, the United States Government issued documents, signed by General Dwight D. Eisenhower, explaining away the loss of approximately 20,000 POWs remaining under Stalin's control." http://www.nationalalliance.org/wwii/wwii.htm

http://www.nationalalliance.org/wwii/wwii.html


b. Despite the total victory in Europe by Allied forces, *thousands and thousands of US soldiers -- perhaps as many as 20,000 -- were never repatriated from prisoner of war (POW) camps, prisons and forced labor and concentration camps.*




These American soldiers were being held in Nazi prison camps, along with other Allied POWs and some Nazi captives, when they were overrun by *the Red Army. Thus, hundreds of thousands of Allied POWs who had been held by the Nazis, as well as millions of Western European citizens, or Displaced Persons, came under Red Army control. Indeed, this number increased because General Dwight D. Eisenhower, the Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, decided to stop the US and British drive eastward into Germany, in order to wait for Soviet forces driving West, so that US and Soviet forces could meet in Berlin.*

The Soviet rationale for not repatriating Allied soldiers and citizens, however, was motivated by more complex and more repugnant reasons than credits along. In the memoirs of former Secretary of State under President Truman, James F. Byrnes, there appears an illuminating conversation the Secretary had with Molotov, the Soviet Commissar of Foreign Affairs. In September, 1945, several weeks after Japan's surrender, Byrnes recounted that while in London:


Mr. Molotov came to see me, on instructions from Moscow... [Molotov] wanted to complain of the way in which the surrender terms [with Japan] were being carried out. He complained particularly about the way the Japanese Army was being demobilized. It was dangerous, he said, merely to disarm the Japanese and send them home; they should be held as prisoners of war. We should do what the Red Army was doing with the Japanese it had taken in Manchuria--make them work...No one can say accurately how many Japanese prisoners have been taken to the Soviet Union.


In mid-1947, the best guess was that approximately 500,000 were still there.

Our 20,000 Missing POW's of WWII




Nothing I post can be 'refuted nor debunked'....simply lied about by low-life lying Liberals.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
Click to expand...




Your economic ideas are fantasies like your worship of the scumbag fdr.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Y
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is your best argument that I'm wrong: "low life liberal" or "scumbag"? Both are tremendous pieces of evidence, and I quake when I hear them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never used that second term.....you must have heard it from lots of others.
> 
> 
> FDR?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 2. He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death: the creation of the United Nations
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR.
Click to expand...



"Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
"He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."

UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR."



*1 January 1942 || The name "United Nations" is coined*
*The Charter was signed on 26 June 1945 by the representatives of the 50 countries. *
*24 October 1945 || The United Nations officially comes into existence*

a. "  [Alger Hiss was appointed acting secretary-general of the U.N. founding conference and was involved in staffing the U.N. by selecting people for employment in the world body. “About fifty showed up as permanent employees and a couple of hundred in part-time assignments,” Shelton says of Hiss’s efforts."                                                                                                  “Alger Hiss Day” a Reminder of U.N.’s Anti-Americanism

2. And the reason for Stalin's ultimate victory?

Franklin Roosevelt, who played 'Robin' to Stalin's 'Batman.'
FDR knew of the Terror Famine, the genocide, the repression...designed and perpetrated by 'Uncle Joe,'...yet Roosevelt *enveloped Joe Stalin in " the cloak of his popularity..." *Time Magazine, December 17, 1934.










3.  "A young American diplomat was *the leading force in the designing of the United Nations*. He was secretary of the Dumbarten Oaks Conversations from August to October of 1944 where most of the preliminary *planning for the U.N.* was done. 

He was *Roosevelt's right-hand man in February of 1945 at Yalta where the postwar boundaries of Europe were drawn *(Roosevelt was a dying man at the time. His death came only ten weeks later). 

At Yalta it was agreed that the *Soviet Union would have three votes (one each for Russia, Ukraine, and Byelorussia) in the U.N. General Assembly, even though the United States had only one.* At Yalta much of Europe was placed under the iron heel of communist rule. At Yalta, Churchill, Roosevelt, and *Stalin appointed this young diplomatic shining star to be the first Secretary-general of the U.N. *for the founding conference held in San Francisco,April/June of 1945.

All of this seemed well and good until three years later. *Alger Hiss *was exposed as a communist spy...."
What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know

theforbiddenknowledge.com -&nbsptheforbiddenknowledge Resources and Information.

Sanity for Superheroes: What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know






Still waiting for you to 'debunk' anything, you dunce.


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.
> 
> Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:
> 
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Roosevelt offered up the lives of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Roosevelr offered up rhe live of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master Joseph "Koba" Stalin."  #1 on the PC revisionist history list.
> PURE BULL CRAP
> 
> Russia lost over 20 million military and civilian lives in WWII fighting the Germans and their East European axis, including troops and assistance from Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and nations that provided volunteers to the German military like Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and the Balkans, all East Europeans.   The US did not send Armies into those regions. The US did not lose millions of men conquering and taking control of those nations.
> 
> US and western strategy called for the development of western Europe. Made sense and an important factor to remember and be aware of is FDR died before the war ended and no one knows how he would have handled situations that arose after the war ended. Makes speculative claims of FDR offering up lives of East Europeans Pure Bull Crap. He simply agreed on not risking or offering up hundreds of thousands of American lives and billions of dollars fighting a new war, this one with  Russia for war-torn and ravaged Eastern Europe.
> 
> All of PC's goofy partisan revisionism can be refuted and debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The best place to attack Germany was straight up through Italy, which had already surrendered.
Click to expand...

You lost this revisionist argument years ago, mostly because you did not realize we had indeed invaded Italy and suffered huge casualties due to the mountainous and easily defended territory. If Ike thought your plan was viable when he had to make the decision he would have followed your idea. Thankfully he was wise enough to reject rhe concept of sending his forces over yet more heavily defended mountains and fighting a Russian style war of attrition.


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
Click to expand...



*"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate




NEXT!!!!!


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> 
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.
> 
> Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:
> 
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Roosevelt offered up the lives of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Roosevelr offered up rhe live of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master Joseph "Koba" Stalin."  #1 on the PC revisionist history list.
> PURE BULL CRAP
> 
> Russia lost over 20 million military and civilian lives in WWII fighting the Germans and their East European axis, including troops and assistance from Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and nations that provided volunteers to the German military like Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and the Balkans, all East Europeans.   The US did not send Armies into those regions. The US did not lose millions of men conquering and taking control of those nations.
> 
> US and western strategy called for the development of western Europe. Made sense and an important factor to remember and be aware of is FDR died before the war ended and no one knows how he would have handled situations that arose after the war ended. Makes speculative claims of FDR offering up lives of East Europeans Pure Bull Crap. He simply agreed on not risking or offering up hundreds of thousands of American lives and billions of dollars fighting a new war, this one with  Russia for war-torn and ravaged Eastern Europe.
> 
> All of PC's goofy partisan revisionism can be refuted and debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The best place to attack Germany was straight up through Italy, which had already surrendered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You lost this revisionist argument years ago, mostly because you did not realize we had indeed invaded Italy and suffered huge casualties due to the mountainous and easily defended territory. If Ike thought your plan was viable when he had to make the decision he would have followed your idea. Thankfully he was wise enough to reject rhe concept of sending his forces over yet more heavily defended mountains and fighting a Russian style war of attrition.
Click to expand...




"You lost this revisionist argument years ago, mostly because you did not realize we had indeed invaded Italy and suffered huge casualties due to the mountainous and easily defended territory. "


Both Eisenhower and General Mark Clark agree with me.....

*. 'To withdraw from the European continent [Italy] to re-invade the European continent was simply crazy.'
Dunn, "Caught Between Roosevelt and Stalin," p.195-196
Yet, Roosevelt sided with Stalin over Churchill, and over General Mark Clark, commander of the 5th US Army, in Italy.
Why?



Still care to deny that Stalin was in charge of Roosevelt's war efforts?
...and Stalin would get his way down to the last American casualty?

In the effort to install world-wide communism, any loss to either America, or to Germany, was a gain for Stalin.

Thank you, Franklin Roosevelt



Eisenhower agreed with Churchill that Italy was the correct attack point.....until he was bought off by George Marshall with a fifth star?*

"*Italy was the correct place* in which to deploy our main forces and the objective should be the Valle of the PO. *In no other area *could we so well threaten the whole German structure including France, the Balkans and the Reich itself. Here also our air would be *closer to vital objectives in Germany."* 
FRUS: The conferences at Cairo and Tehran, 1943, p.359-361
That report was published in "Foreign Relations of the United States" in 1961

Eisenhower's statement was to an audience in *November* 26, 1943....




Everything I post is accurate, documented, linked and sourced.


NEXT!!!


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> 
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.
> 
> Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:
> 
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Roosevelt offered up the lives of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Roosevelr offered up rhe live of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master Joseph "Koba" Stalin."  #1 on the PC revisionist history list.
> PURE BULL CRAP
> 
> Russia lost over 20 million military and civilian lives in WWII fighting the Germans and their East European axis, including troops and assistance from Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and nations that provided volunteers to the German military like Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and the Balkans, all East Europeans.   The US did not send Armies into those regions. The US did not lose millions of men conquering and taking control of those nations.
> 
> US and western strategy called for the development of western Europe. Made sense and an important factor to remember and be aware of is FDR died before the war ended and no one knows how he would have handled situations that arose after the war ended. Makes speculative claims of FDR offering up lives of East Europeans Pure Bull Crap. He simply agreed on not risking or offering up hundreds of thousands of American lives and billions of dollars fighting a new war, this one with  Russia for war-torn and ravaged Eastern Europe.
> 
> All of PC's goofy partisan revisionism can be refuted and debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The best place to attack Germany was straight up through Italy, which had already surrendered.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You lost this revisionist argument years ago, mostly because you did not realize we had indeed invaded Italy and suffered huge casualties due to the mountainous and easily defended territory. If Ike thought your plan was viable when he had to make the decision he would have followed your idea. Thankfully he was wise enough to reject rhe concept of sending his forces over yet more heavily defended mountains and fighting a Russian style war of attrition.
Click to expand...




1. …The President then added the curious statement that he did not understand the British viewpoint in this connection, for he, Roosevelt,* did not believe that the Soviets wanted to take over the Balkan states but wished only to establish “kinship with other Slavic peoples.”*

a. How could he have believed this? In 1937-1938, at the height of his pal, 'Uncle Joe' Stalin's terror, 40,000 were killed per month at Stalin's behest. Full text of "Solzhenitsyn: The Voice of Freedom"
b. In November-December, the two leaders met with Stalin....who refused the Churchill plan....and demanded the second front through the West.

2. *General Mark Clark was, at the time, in command of Allied Armies in Italy. He strongly supported the Prime Minister’s viewpoint, as indicated in his book written after the war:

…A campaign that might have changed the whole history of relations between the Western world and Soviet Russia was permitted to fade away….Not alone in my opinion, but in the opinion of a number of experts who were close to the problem, the weakening of the campaign in Italy in order to invade southern France and instead of pushing on in the Balkans was one of the outstanding political mistakes of the war.…Had we been there before the Red Army, not only would the collapse of Germany have come sooner, but the influence of Soviet Russia would have been drastically reduced.



Speak up, you dunce.....

NEXT!!!!*


----------



## Camp

Now we are in the PC face-saving phase where long unrelated texts are placed into the thread deflecting away from the original issue and claim.


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
Click to expand...




Know what George Kennan said about your hero????

a. George Kennan’s view of Roosevelt’s performance during the war is considerably harsher than Harriman’s After commenting bitterly on the *“inexcusable body of ignorance about the Russian Communist movement, about the history of its diplomacy, about what had happened in the purges, and about what had been going on in Poland and the Baltic States,” Kennan turns more directly to FDR alone: *

I also have in mind FDRs evident conviction that Stalin, while perhaps a somewhat

difficult customer, was only, after all, a person like any other person; that the reason

we hadn’t been able to get along with him in the past was that we had never really had

anyone with the proper personality and theproper qualities of sympathy and imagina-
tion to deal with him, that he had been snubbed all along by the arrogant conservatives of the Western capitals; and that if only he could be exposed to the persuasive charms of someone like FDR himself, ideological preconceptions would melt and Russia’s cooperation with the West could be easily arranged.* For these assumptions there were no grounds whatsover; and they were of a puerility that was unworthy of a statesman of FDRs stature.*

http://www.mmisi.org/ma/30_02/nisbet.pdf


Know what 'puerile' means??????



NEXT!!!!


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> Now we are in the PC face-saving phase where long unrelated texts are placed into the thread deflecting away from the original issue and claim.





And, once again, we've proven that I am never wrong, and you simply dance on the hot-plate.


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
Click to expand...

Debunked immediately as nonsense. Two partisan hacks and goofballs made a ridiculous claim. They were laughed at.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked immediately as nonsense. Two partisan hacks and goofballs made a ridiculous claim. They were laughed at.
Click to expand...




Watch me smash a custard pie in your ugly kisser:

1.    Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., liberal New Deal historian wrote in _The National Experience, _in 1963, “Though the policies of the Hundred Days had ended despair, they had not produce recovery…” He also wrote honestly about the devastating crash of 1937- in the midst of the “second New Deal” and Roosevelt’s second term. “The collapse in the months after September 1937 was actually more severe than it had been in the first nine months of the depression: national income fell 13 %, payrolls 35 %, durable goods production 50 %, profits 78% .

2.    In 1935, the Brookings Institution (left-leaning) delivered a 900-page report on the New Deal and the National Recovery Administration, concluding that *“ on the whole it retarded recovery.” * article - AEI



The only thing 'debunked' is you.


----------



## regent

To Chic and Unacorte


PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So what is your best argument that I'm wrong: "low life liberal" or "scumbag"? Both are tremendous pieces of evidence, and I quake when I hear them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never used that second term.....you must have heard it from lots of others.
> 
> 
> FDR?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 2. He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death: the creation of the United Nations
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR."
> 
> 
> 
> *1 January 1942 || The name "United Nations" is coined*
> *The Charter was signed on 26 June 1945 by the representatives of the 50 countries. *
> *24 October 1945 || The United Nations officially comes into existence*
> 
> a. "  [Alger Hiss was appointed acting secretary-general of the U.N. founding conference and was involved in staffing the U.N. by selecting people for employment in the world body. “About fifty showed up as permanent employees and a couple of hundred in part-time assignments,” Shelton says of Hiss’s efforts."                                                                                                  “Alger Hiss Day” a Reminder of U.N.’s Anti-Americanism
> 
> 2. And the reason for Stalin's ultimate victory?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt, who played 'Robin' to Stalin's 'Batman.'
> FDR knew of the Terror Famine, the genocide, the repression...designed and perpetrated by 'Uncle Joe,'...yet Roosevelt *enveloped Joe Stalin in " the cloak of his popularity..." *Time Magazine, December 17, 1934.
> 
> View attachment 224157
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3.  "A young American diplomat was *the leading force in the designing of the United Nations*. He was secretary of the Dumbarten Oaks Conversations from August to October of 1944 where most of the preliminary *planning for the U.N.* was done.
> 
> He was *Roosevelt's right-hand man in February of 1945 at Yalta where the postwar boundaries of Europe were drawn *(Roosevelt was a dying man at the time. His death came only ten weeks later).
> 
> At Yalta it was agreed that the *Soviet Union would have three votes (one each for Russia, Ukraine, and Byelorussia) in the U.N. General Assembly, even though the United States had only one.* At Yalta much of Europe was placed under the iron heel of communist rule. At Yalta, Churchill, Roosevelt, and *Stalin appointed this young diplomatic shining star to be the first Secretary-general of the U.N. *for the founding conference held in San Francisco,April/June of 1945.
> 
> All of this seemed well and good until three years later. *Alger Hiss *was exposed as a communist spy...."
> What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know
> 
> theforbiddenknowledge.com -&nbsptheforbiddenknowledge Resources and Information.
> 
> Sanity for Superheroes: What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for you to 'debunk' anything, you dunce.
Click to expand...

A better suggestion might be for you and UNKOTARE to combine your evidence that FDR was an evil president and send it to the historians that rate the presidents. Once the historians  go over that irrefutable evidence I'm sure they will see the errors of their history and pronounce FDR the worst president in our history, Wouldn't you like to see their faces when they see your irrefutable evidence, boy I sure would.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
Click to expand...


Haha, that must be why FDR achieved the #1 GDP growth of any USA President.


----------



## SobieskiSavedEurope

regent said:


> To Chic and Unacorte
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> 
> 
> So what is your best argument that I'm wrong: "low life liberal" or "scumbag"? Both are tremendous pieces of evidence, and I quake when I hear them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never used that second term.....you must have heard it from lots of others.
> 
> 
> FDR?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 2. He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death: the creation of the United Nations
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR."
> 
> 
> 
> *1 January 1942 || The name "United Nations" is coined*
> *The Charter was signed on 26 June 1945 by the representatives of the 50 countries. *
> *24 October 1945 || The United Nations officially comes into existence*
> 
> a. "  [Alger Hiss was appointed acting secretary-general of the U.N. founding conference and was involved in staffing the U.N. by selecting people for employment in the world body. “About fifty showed up as permanent employees and a couple of hundred in part-time assignments,” Shelton says of Hiss’s efforts."                                                                                                  “Alger Hiss Day” a Reminder of U.N.’s Anti-Americanism
> 
> 2. And the reason for Stalin's ultimate victory?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt, who played 'Robin' to Stalin's 'Batman.'
> FDR knew of the Terror Famine, the genocide, the repression...designed and perpetrated by 'Uncle Joe,'...yet Roosevelt *enveloped Joe Stalin in " the cloak of his popularity..." *Time Magazine, December 17, 1934.
> 
> View attachment 224157
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3.  "A young American diplomat was *the leading force in the designing of the United Nations*. He was secretary of the Dumbarten Oaks Conversations from August to October of 1944 where most of the preliminary *planning for the U.N.* was done.
> 
> He was *Roosevelt's right-hand man in February of 1945 at Yalta where the postwar boundaries of Europe were drawn *(Roosevelt was a dying man at the time. His death came only ten weeks later).
> 
> At Yalta it was agreed that the *Soviet Union would have three votes (one each for Russia, Ukraine, and Byelorussia) in the U.N. General Assembly, even though the United States had only one.* At Yalta much of Europe was placed under the iron heel of communist rule. At Yalta, Churchill, Roosevelt, and *Stalin appointed this young diplomatic shining star to be the first Secretary-general of the U.N. *for the founding conference held in San Francisco,April/June of 1945.
> 
> All of this seemed well and good until three years later. *Alger Hiss *was exposed as a communist spy...."
> What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know
> 
> theforbiddenknowledge.com -&nbsptheforbiddenknowledge Resources and Information.
> 
> Sanity for Superheroes: What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for you to 'debunk' anything, you dunce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A better suggestion might be for you and UNKOTARE to combine your evidence that FDR was an evil president and send it to the historians that rate the presidents. Once the historians  go over that irrefutable evidence I'm sure they will see the errors of their history and pronounce FDR the worst president in our history, Wouldn't you like to see their faces when they see your irrefutable evidence, boy I sure would.
Click to expand...

I am sure many Japanese, Poles, Italians & Germans could find reason to disagree.


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked immediately as nonsense. Two partisan hacks and goofballs made a ridiculous claim. They were laughed at.
Click to expand...




Proof of the debunking?


----------



## danielpalos

rightwinger said:


> Undoubtedly our finest modern President
> 
> 1. Got us out of the Depression
> 2.  Dropped unemployment from 25% to 2%
> 3. Social Security
> 4. FDIC
> 5. National Labor Relations Act
> 6.  Led us through WWII
> 7. Brought our military from 17 th in the world to number 1
> 8.  Led us into the atomic age
> 9. Made the U.S. a Superpower
> 10. Laid the framework for the UN
> 
> Not bad for a cripple


Thank Goodness our federal republic got a left winger in charge.


----------



## Camp

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha, that must be why FDR achieved the #1 GDP growth of any USA President.
Click to expand...

A worldwide global Depression was in its fourth year when FDR became President. The first thing he did was save the US banks, which were closing and going bankrupt. He then began policies of putting people to work building American infrastructure. He placed big business on the back burner. They still haven't gotten over it and whine about the depression lasting longer for them than it did for rhe common working people.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> To Chic and Unacorte
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> 
> 
> So what is your best argument that I'm wrong: "low life liberal" or "scumbag"? Both are tremendous pieces of evidence, and I quake when I hear them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never used that second term.....you must have heard it from lots of others.
> 
> 
> FDR?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 2. He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death: the creation of the United Nations
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR."
> 
> 
> 
> *1 January 1942 || The name "United Nations" is coined*
> *The Charter was signed on 26 June 1945 by the representatives of the 50 countries. *
> *24 October 1945 || The United Nations officially comes into existence*
> 
> a. "  [Alger Hiss was appointed acting secretary-general of the U.N. founding conference and was involved in staffing the U.N. by selecting people for employment in the world body. “About fifty showed up as permanent employees and a couple of hundred in part-time assignments,” Shelton says of Hiss’s efforts."                                                                                                  “Alger Hiss Day” a Reminder of U.N.’s Anti-Americanism
> 
> 2. And the reason for Stalin's ultimate victory?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt, who played 'Robin' to Stalin's 'Batman.'
> FDR knew of the Terror Famine, the genocide, the repression...designed and perpetrated by 'Uncle Joe,'...yet Roosevelt *enveloped Joe Stalin in " the cloak of his popularity..." *Time Magazine, December 17, 1934.
> 
> View attachment 224157
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3.  "A young American diplomat was *the leading force in the designing of the United Nations*. He was secretary of the Dumbarten Oaks Conversations from August to October of 1944 where most of the preliminary *planning for the U.N.* was done.
> 
> He was *Roosevelt's right-hand man in February of 1945 at Yalta where the postwar boundaries of Europe were drawn *(Roosevelt was a dying man at the time. His death came only ten weeks later).
> 
> At Yalta it was agreed that the *Soviet Union would have three votes (one each for Russia, Ukraine, and Byelorussia) in the U.N. General Assembly, even though the United States had only one.* At Yalta much of Europe was placed under the iron heel of communist rule. At Yalta, Churchill, Roosevelt, and *Stalin appointed this young diplomatic shining star to be the first Secretary-general of the U.N. *for the founding conference held in San Francisco,April/June of 1945.
> 
> All of this seemed well and good until three years later. *Alger Hiss *was exposed as a communist spy...."
> What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know
> 
> theforbiddenknowledge.com -&nbsptheforbiddenknowledge Resources and Information.
> 
> Sanity for Superheroes: What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for you to 'debunk' anything, you dunce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A better suggestion might be for you and UNKOTARE to combine your evidence that FDR was an evil president and send it to the historians that rate the presidents. Once the historians  go over that irrefutable evidence I'm sure they will see the errors of their history and pronounce FDR the worst president in our history, Wouldn't you like to see their faces when they see your irrefutable evidence, boy I sure would.
Click to expand...




 An even better idea would be for you to let go of the security blanket of logical fallacy you keep clinging to and try for once to think for yourself. Try, if you can, to address even one of the many charges against the scumbag FDR.


----------



## regent

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
Click to expand...

How many UCLA economists agreed with the two UCLA authors, and  what was the UCLA  plan to fight depressions? Why didn't FDR at least use parts of the UCLA plan to fight the depression?


----------



## danielpalos

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> To Chic and Unacorte
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So what is your best argument that I'm wrong: "low life liberal" or "scumbag"? Both are tremendous pieces of evidence, and I quake when I hear them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never used that second term.....you must have heard it from lots of others.
> 
> 
> FDR?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 2. He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death: the creation of the United Nations
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR."
> 
> 
> 
> *1 January 1942 || The name "United Nations" is coined*
> *The Charter was signed on 26 June 1945 by the representatives of the 50 countries. *
> *24 October 1945 || The United Nations officially comes into existence*
> 
> a. "  [Alger Hiss was appointed acting secretary-general of the U.N. founding conference and was involved in staffing the U.N. by selecting people for employment in the world body. “About fifty showed up as permanent employees and a couple of hundred in part-time assignments,” Shelton says of Hiss’s efforts."                                                                                                  “Alger Hiss Day” a Reminder of U.N.’s Anti-Americanism
> 
> 2. And the reason for Stalin's ultimate victory?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt, who played 'Robin' to Stalin's 'Batman.'
> FDR knew of the Terror Famine, the genocide, the repression...designed and perpetrated by 'Uncle Joe,'...yet Roosevelt *enveloped Joe Stalin in " the cloak of his popularity..." *Time Magazine, December 17, 1934.
> 
> View attachment 224157
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3.  "A young American diplomat was *the leading force in the designing of the United Nations*. He was secretary of the Dumbarten Oaks Conversations from August to October of 1944 where most of the preliminary *planning for the U.N.* was done.
> 
> He was *Roosevelt's right-hand man in February of 1945 at Yalta where the postwar boundaries of Europe were drawn *(Roosevelt was a dying man at the time. His death came only ten weeks later).
> 
> At Yalta it was agreed that the *Soviet Union would have three votes (one each for Russia, Ukraine, and Byelorussia) in the U.N. General Assembly, even though the United States had only one.* At Yalta much of Europe was placed under the iron heel of communist rule. At Yalta, Churchill, Roosevelt, and *Stalin appointed this young diplomatic shining star to be the first Secretary-general of the U.N. *for the founding conference held in San Francisco,April/June of 1945.
> 
> All of this seemed well and good until three years later. *Alger Hiss *was exposed as a communist spy...."
> What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know
> 
> theforbiddenknowledge.com -&nbsptheforbiddenknowledge Resources and Information.
> 
> Sanity for Superheroes: What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for you to 'debunk' anything, you dunce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A better suggestion might be for you and UNKOTARE to combine your evidence that FDR was an evil president and send it to the historians that rate the presidents. Once the historians  go over that irrefutable evidence I'm sure they will see the errors of their history and pronounce FDR the worst president in our history, Wouldn't you like to see their faces when they see your irrefutable evidence, boy I sure would.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An even better idea would be for you to let go of the security blanket of logical fallacy you keep clinging to and try for once to think for yourself. Try, if you can, to address even one of the many charges against the scumbag FDR.
Click to expand...

FDR is the reason we have a First World economy.


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha, that must be why FDR achieved the #1 GDP growth of any USA President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A worldwide global Depression was in its fourth year when FDR became President. The first thing he did was save the US banks, which were closing and going bankrupt. He then began policies of putting people to work building American infrastructure. He placed big business on the back burner. They still haven't gotten over it and whine about the depression lasting longer for them than it did for rhe common working people.
Click to expand...



It lasted longer for everyone, which hurt the poor hardest.


----------



## danielpalos

regent said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many UCLA economists agreed with the two UCLA authors, and  what was the UCLA  plan to fight depressions? Why didn't FDR at least use parts of the UCLA plan to fight the depression?
Click to expand...

We also may not have gone to the Moon or a Cold War with the former Soviet Union.


----------



## Unkotare

regent said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many UCLA economists agreed with the two UCLA authors, and  what was the UCLA  plan to fight depressions? Why didn't FDR at least use parts of the UCLA plan to fight the depression?
Click to expand...



Desperation has made you irrational.


----------



## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked immediately as nonsense. Two partisan hacks and goofballs made a ridiculous claim. They were laughed at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof of the debunking?
Click to expand...

They used a faulty system of calculating unemployment which ignored workers employed building American infrastructure and classified them as "welfare recipients" and designated their paychecks as government charity.


----------



## danielpalos

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> 
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked immediately as nonsense. Two partisan hacks and goofballs made a ridiculous claim. They were laughed at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof of the debunking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They used a faulty system of calculating unemployment which ignored workers employed building American infrastructure and classified them as "welfare recipients" and designated their paychecks as government charity.
Click to expand...

everybody agrees the command economics of a warfare State led to full employment, not the private sector; nor would the private sector have invested in infrastructure.


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> 
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked immediately as nonsense. Two partisan hacks and goofballs made a ridiculous claim. They were laughed at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof of the debunking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They used a faulty system of calculating unemployment which ignored workers employed building American infrastructure and classified them as "welfare recipients" and designated their paychecks as government charity.
Click to expand...


That’s not faulty.


----------



## Billy_Kinetta

PoliticalChic said:


> "He was a great wartime president because he let the generals conduct the war."
> 
> I'm gonna have to disagree with your last sentence, Billy.



Oops.  Should read 'was considered a great wartime president ... '


----------



## Camp

FDR gave support to the birth of the early military-industrial complex during the mid and late 30's by financing the development of virtually all the modern weapons used to defeat Germany and Japan. Importance of developing modern weapons was something he learned as an assistant Sec. of rhe Navy in WWI. He guided the development of everything from the M1 Garrand to the B-17 and modern aircraft carriers. All the fighter aircraft that took out Japan and Germanies airforces were developed under the guidance of FDR.


----------



## danielpalos

Command Economics, when it really really matters.


----------



## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked immediately as nonsense. Two partisan hacks and goofballs made a ridiculous claim. They were laughed at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof of the debunking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They used a faulty system of calculating unemployment which ignored workers employed building American infrastructure and classified them as "welfare recipients" and designated their paychecks as government charity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s not faulty.
Click to expand...

They counted men who builtr thousands of schools, armories, post offices, bridges, airports, Naval Ports, highways, schools, hospitals, sewers systems, parks,   Electric generating Dams, etc.and on and on as being unemployed and hence, making rhe GD last longer


----------



## danielpalos

Any exigency to promote the general welfare!


----------



## regent

How many of us know of the infrastructure that FDR built? Both the WPA and PWA were based on FDR's philosophy that not working was charity. So just the WPA built: 
651,000 miles of highway
1000 miles of runways
124, 000 bridges
8,000 parks
erected 69,000 highway light poles
18000 playgrounds
125,000 public buildings
41,300 schools
TVA
and there was still the PWA, but I tire.


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Had there been sabotage and other crimes committed against the defense industries. and FDR had not taken any defensible measures,  you guys would now be pralsing FDR as a great president for his hands-off policy, right? Get real.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
Click to expand...

More faulty revisionist history

The Depression ended in 1939, ending it seven years earlier would have ended it in 1932, BEFORE FDR took over in March 1933


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Same old logical fallacy again and again. You still haven’t learned how to think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He is an old man who worked and lived in the Great  Depression and fought in a Rifle Platoon in the Pacific during WWII.  H
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> And I certainly hope you live to be far older....but that is beside the point.
> 
> Your post is testimony to the fact that you cannot deny or refute anything I posted here:
> 
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Roosevelt offered up the lives of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Roosevelr offered up rhe live of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master Joseph "Koba" Stalin."  #1 on the PC revisionist history list.
> PURE BULL CRAP
> 
> Russia lost over 20 million military and civilian lives in WWII fighting the Germans and their East European axis, including troops and assistance from Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and nations that provided volunteers to the German military like Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and the Balkans, all East Europeans.   The US did not send Armies into those regions. The US did not lose millions of men conquering and taking control of those nations.
> 
> US and western strategy called for the development of western Europe. Made sense and an important factor to remember and be aware of is FDR died before the war ended and no one knows how he would have handled situations that arose after the war ended. Makes speculative claims of FDR offering up lives of East Europeans Pure Bull Crap. He simply agreed on not risking or offering up hundreds of thousands of American lives and billions of dollars fighting a new war, this one with  Russia for war-torn and ravaged Eastern Europe.
> 
> All of PC's goofy partisan revisionism can be refuted and debunked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "The US did not send Armies into those regions. The US did not lose millions of men conquering and taking control of those nations."
> 
> 
> FDR died April 12th..but, based on Marshall's order,  the White House clearly knew of the following prior to that:
> 
> " By May 15, 1945, the Pentagon believed *25,000 American POWs "liberated" by the Red Army were still being held hostage to Soviet demands* that all "Soviet citizens" be returned to Soviet control, "without exception" and by force if necessary, as agreed to at the Yalta Conference in February 1945. When the U.S. refused to return some military formations composed of Soviet citizens, such as the First Ukrainian SS Division, Stalin retaliated by returning only 4,116 of the hostage American POWs. On June 1, 1945, the United States Government issued documents, signed by General Dwight D. Eisenhower, explaining away the loss of approximately 20,000 POWs remaining under Stalin's control." http://www.nationalalliance.org/wwii/wwii.htm
> 
> http://www.nationalalliance.org/wwii/wwii.html
> 
> 
> b. Despite the total victory in Europe by Allied forces, *thousands and thousands of US soldiers -- perhaps as many as 20,000 -- were never repatriated from prisoner of war (POW) camps, prisons and forced labor and concentration camps.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These American soldiers were being held in Nazi prison camps, along with other Allied POWs and some Nazi captives, when they were overrun by *the Red Army. Thus, hundreds of thousands of Allied POWs who had been held by the Nazis, as well as millions of Western European citizens, or Displaced Persons, came under Red Army control. Indeed, this number increased because General Dwight D. Eisenhower, the Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, decided to stop the US and British drive eastward into Germany, in order to wait for Soviet forces driving West, so that US and Soviet forces could meet in Berlin.*
> 
> The Soviet rationale for not repatriating Allied soldiers and citizens, however, was motivated by more complex and more repugnant reasons than credits along. In the memoirs of former Secretary of State under President Truman, James F. Byrnes, there appears an illuminating conversation the Secretary had with Molotov, the Soviet Commissar of Foreign Affairs. In September, 1945, several weeks after Japan's surrender, Byrnes recounted that while in London:
> 
> 
> Mr. Molotov came to see me, on instructions from Moscow... [Molotov] wanted to complain of the way in which the surrender terms [with Japan] were being carried out. He complained particularly about the way the Japanese Army was being demobilized. It was dangerous, he said, merely to disarm the Japanese and send them home; they should be held as prisoners of war. We should do what the Red Army was doing with the Japanese it had taken in Manchuria--make them work...No one can say accurately how many Japanese prisoners have been taken to the Soviet Union.
> 
> 
> In mid-1947, the best guess was that approximately 500,000 were still there.
> 
> Our 20,000 Missing POW's of WWII
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing I post can be 'refuted nor debunked'....simply lied about by low-life lying Liberals.
Click to expand...

More fake history from PC

Passing off garbage research and urban legends as fact


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Debunked immediately as nonsense. Two partisan hacks and goofballs made a ridiculous claim. They were laughed at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof of the debunking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They used a faulty system of calculating unemployment which ignored workers employed building American infrastructure and classified them as "welfare recipients" and designated their paychecks as government charity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s not faulty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They counted men who builtr thousands of schools, armories, post offices, bridges, airports, Naval Ports, highways, schools, hospitals, sewers systems, parks,   Electric generating Dams, etc.....
Click to expand...



On government make-work programs designed to occupy the time of the unemployed, not production spurred by market forces. They were receiving assistance from the government rather than working jobs created by demand. There is a reason why make-work programs never work in the long term. In the end, they ARE a form of welfare and not sustainable. 

Might as well have been Pharaoh building a new pyramid.


----------



## Unkotare

The Great Depression Was Ended by the End of World War II, Not the Start of It


----------



## rightwinger

Unkotare said:


> The Great Depression Was Ended by the End of World War II, Not the Start of It


How ridiculous

There was near full employment in WWII.  
There was a recession AFTER WWII


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> To Chic and Unacorte
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're far too kind to reggie....
> 
> He's simply a lying low-life Liberal.
> 
> 
> 
> So what is your best argument that I'm wrong: "low life liberal" or "scumbag"? Both are tremendous pieces of evidence, and I quake when I hear them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never used that second term.....you must have heard it from lots of others.
> 
> 
> FDR?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..
> 
> 
> 2. He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death: the creation of the United Nations
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> "Revisionist history #2 on PC's list.
> "He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death; the creation of the United Nations."
> 
> UN sprang from the League of Nations which was formed in 1920. Actual UN was transitioned, founded and formed six months after the death of FDR."
> 
> 
> 
> *1 January 1942 || The name "United Nations" is coined*
> *The Charter was signed on 26 June 1945 by the representatives of the 50 countries. *
> *24 October 1945 || The United Nations officially comes into existence*
> 
> a. "  [Alger Hiss was appointed acting secretary-general of the U.N. founding conference and was involved in staffing the U.N. by selecting people for employment in the world body. “About fifty showed up as permanent employees and a couple of hundred in part-time assignments,” Shelton says of Hiss’s efforts."                                                                                                  “Alger Hiss Day” a Reminder of U.N.’s Anti-Americanism
> 
> 2. And the reason for Stalin's ultimate victory?
> 
> Franklin Roosevelt, who played 'Robin' to Stalin's 'Batman.'
> FDR knew of the Terror Famine, the genocide, the repression...designed and perpetrated by 'Uncle Joe,'...yet Roosevelt *enveloped Joe Stalin in " the cloak of his popularity..." *Time Magazine, December 17, 1934.
> 
> View attachment 224157
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3.  "A young American diplomat was *the leading force in the designing of the United Nations*. He was secretary of the Dumbarten Oaks Conversations from August to October of 1944 where most of the preliminary *planning for the U.N.* was done.
> 
> He was *Roosevelt's right-hand man in February of 1945 at Yalta where the postwar boundaries of Europe were drawn *(Roosevelt was a dying man at the time. His death came only ten weeks later).
> 
> At Yalta it was agreed that the *Soviet Union would have three votes (one each for Russia, Ukraine, and Byelorussia) in the U.N. General Assembly, even though the United States had only one.* At Yalta much of Europe was placed under the iron heel of communist rule. At Yalta, Churchill, Roosevelt, and *Stalin appointed this young diplomatic shining star to be the first Secretary-general of the U.N. *for the founding conference held in San Francisco,April/June of 1945.
> 
> All of this seemed well and good until three years later. *Alger Hiss *was exposed as a communist spy...."
> What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know
> 
> theforbiddenknowledge.com -&nbsptheforbiddenknowledge Resources and Information.
> 
> Sanity for Superheroes: What The U.N. Doesn't Want You To Know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still waiting for you to 'debunk' anything, you dunce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A better suggestion might be for you and UNKOTARE to combine your evidence that FDR was an evil president and send it to the historians that rate the presidents. Once the historians  go over that irrefutable evidence I'm sure they will see the errors of their history and pronounce FDR the worst president in our history, Wouldn't you like to see their faces when they see your irrefutable evidence, boy I sure would.
Click to expand...




"A better suggestion might be for you and UNKOTARE to combine your evidence that FDR was an evil president and send it to the historians that rate the presidents. "


The 'white flag.'


Accepted.


----------



## PoliticalChic

SobieskiSavedEurope said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha, that must be why FDR achieved the #1 GDP growth of any USA President.
Click to expand...




Although your reputation couldn't be lower....here's your chance to embarrass yourself.


Any errors here?


Franklin Roosevelt…..this god, the man who employed no efforts at saving the lives of American service men…..



1. Roosevelt offered up the lives of everyone in Eastern Europe to his lord and master, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin


2. He made certain that Stalin's plans continued after his death: the creation of the United Nations


3. He extended the Depression by years.


4. He disposed of the Constitution


5. He imposed Mussolini's Fascist policies and called it 'the New Deal


6. He turned over command of our military actions in WWII to Stalin, and cost multiple thousands of US soldiers' deaths.


7. He made certain that communism survived the war, and thrived afterwards.


8. Without his efforts, there would be no Red China, no Korean War, and no Vietnamese War


*9. ...and he is the proximate explanation for the cultural Marxism prevalent in society today.*


And, he inspired lying Leftists like you.






If only Roosevelt had a mind of his own, and had, as his priority, what was good for America and Americans.

1. He would have recognized how evil Stalin and communism is/was.

2. He would have done what the experts advised, and made certain that Hitler and Stalin destroyed each other.

3. He would have given the anti-Nazi Germans the same support he gave the resistance in every other nation.

4. The war would have ended some 3-5 years earlier, with a half million fewer American casualties.

5.Both Nazi and Marxist butchers would have received their due justice.

6. No 'Cold War.'

7. The Constitution would be our 'law of the land.'


----------



## PoliticalChic

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Debunked immediately as nonsense. Two partisan hacks and goofballs made a ridiculous claim. They were laughed at.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof of the debunking?
Click to expand...



Nah....just more proof the's lying.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha, that must be why FDR achieved the #1 GDP growth of any USA President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A worldwide global Depression was in its fourth year when FDR became President. The first thing he did was save the US banks, which were closing and going bankrupt. He then began policies of putting people to work building American infrastructure. He placed big business on the back burner. They still haven't gotten over it and whine about the depression lasting longer for them than it did for rhe common working people.
Click to expand...




1. Republican Harding faced as serious a recession as Roosevelt did, *and solved it in a year and a half.*

2. *Roosevelt took a recession and expanded it into a decade long Depression.*


3. For comparison:

a. While "The Depression" is probably the only economic downturn ever studied in government schools, few ever speak of any depressions or recessions prior to the "Great Depression."

Know how many there were?

Over thirty. And the average length was a year or so.

List of recessions in the United States - List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia


b. *"The Great Depression (1929-39) was the deepest and longest-lasting economic downturn in the history of the Western industrialized world. In the United States, *..."The Great Depression - Facts & Summary - HISTORY.com

Know why? 'Cause Roosevelt wanted it to be.

OK....so maybe Franklin Roosevelt was actually trying to end the depression.....never mind that *he made it last longer, by a multiple of five, from most previous depressions/recessions.....*

It sure was a good excuse for overturning the Constitution.



4. Mull this over: FDR was good friends with Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin.
His New Deal was copied from Mussolini's economic plans.
He wanted the same power that other dictators had.
And he knew how to get it: keep the recession going.


And he did.


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many UCLA economists agreed with the two UCLA authors, and  what was the UCLA  plan to fight depressions? Why didn't FDR at least use parts of the UCLA plan to fight the depression?
Click to expand...




1. Republican Harding faced as serious a recession as Roosevelt did, *and solved it in a year and a half.*

2. *Roosevelt took a recession and expanded it into a decade long Depression.*


3. For comparison:

a. While "The Depression" is probably the only economic downturn ever studied in government schools, few ever speak of any depressions or recessions prior to the "Great Depression."

Know how many there were?

Over thirty. And the average length was a year or so.

List of recessions in the United States - List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia


b. *"The Great Depression (1929-39) was the deepest and longest-lasting economic downturn in the history of the Western industrialized world. In the United States, *..."The Great Depression - Facts & Summary - HISTORY.com

Know why? 'Cause Roosevelt wanted it to be.

OK....so maybe Franklin Roosevelt was actually trying to end the depression.....never mind that *he made it last longer, by a multiple of five, from most previous depressions/recessions.....*

It sure was a good excuse for overturning the Constitution.



4. Mull this over: FDR was good friends with Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin.
His New Deal was copied from Mussolini's economic plans.
He wanted the same power that other dictators had.
And he knew how to get it: keep the recession going.


And he did.


----------



## Camp

rightwinger said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More faulty revisionist history
> 
> The Depression ended in 1939, ending it seven years earlier would have ended it in 1932, BEFORE FDR took over in March 1933
Click to expand...

All the anti-FDR crew has is revisionist crap.


----------



## PoliticalChic

regent said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical, unlawful, un-American. Your idol was the worst scumbag to ever sully the office, and your clumsy attempts at playing the apologist are shameful.
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many UCLA economists agreed with the two UCLA authors, and  what was the UCLA  plan to fight depressions? Why didn't FDR at least use parts of the UCLA plan to fight the depression?
Click to expand...




FDR's responsibility for the 'Great Depression:
Don't take my word for the ineptitude, here is Roosevelt BFF, secretary of the treasury, expert on finance and compendium of statistics on the economy of the 1930's:

" _“We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and *it does not work.* And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong…somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…I say*after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…And an enormous debt to boot!”*_ 
Morgenthau Diary, May 9, 1939, Franklin Roosevelt Presidential Library

a. In 1935, the Brookings Institution (left-leaning) delivered a 900-page report on the New Deal and the National Recovery Administration, concluding that “ *on the whole it retarded recovery.*” article - AEI


----------



## Unkotare

rightwinger said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Great Depression Was Ended by the End of World War II, Not the Start of It
> 
> 
> 
> How ridiculous
> 
> There was near full employment in WWII.
> There was a recession AFTER WWII
Click to expand...



You can’t be this stupid.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SobieskiSavedEurope said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> 
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Haha, that must be why FDR achieved the #1 GDP growth of any USA President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A worldwide global Depression was in its fourth year when FDR became President. The first thing he did was save the US banks, which were closing and going bankrupt. He then began policies of putting people to work building American infrastructure. He placed big business on the back burner. They still haven't gotten over it and whine about the depression lasting longer for them than it did for rhe common working people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> It lasted longer for everyone, which hurt the poor hardest.
Click to expand...



Here is an interesting visual: imagine a triple line of the unemployed, three across, consisting of those unemployed under Hoover, in 1931. The line would have gone *from Los Angeles, across the country, to the border of Maine.*

What effect did Roosevelt have on the line?

Well, eight years later, in 1939, the length of the line would have gone further, from the Maine border, south to Boston, then on to New York City, then to Philadelphia, on to Washington, D.C.- and finally, into Virginia.
Folsom, "New Deal or Raw Deal"


Think Folsom was wrong?

Check it out at the US Bureau of the Census, 'Historical Statistics of the United States: Colonial Times to 1970, I-126 and Unemployment Statistics during the Great Depression


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an interesting visual: imagine a triple line of the unemployed, three across, consisting of those unemployed under Hoover, in 1931. The line would have gone *from Los Angeles, across the country, to the border of Maine.*
> 
> What effect did Roosevelt have on the line?
> 
> Well, eight years later, in 1939, the length of the line would have gone further, from the Maine border, south to Boston, then on to New York City, then to Philadelphia, on to Washington, D.C.- and finally, into Virginia.
> Folsom, "New Deal or Raw Deal"
> 
> 
> Think Folsom was wrong?
> 
> Check it out at the US Bureau of the Census, 'Historical Statistics of the United States: Colonial Times to 1970, I-126 and Unemployment Statistics during the Great Depression
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More faulty revisionist history
> 
> The Depression ended in 1939, ending it seven years earlier would have ended it in 1932, BEFORE FDR took over in March 1933
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All the anti-FDR crew has is revisionist crap.
Click to expand...




 Here is an interesting visual: imagine a triple line of the unemployed, three across, consisting of those unemployed under Hoover, in 1931. The line would have gone *from Los Angeles, across the country, to the border of Maine.*

What effect did Roosevelt have on the line?

Well, eight years later, in 1939, the length of the line would have gone further, from the Maine border, south to Boston, then on to New York City, then to Philadelphia, on to Washington, D.C.- and finally, into Virginia.
Folsom, "New Deal or Raw Deal"


Think Folsom was wrong?

Check it out at the US Bureau of the Census, 'Historical Statistics of the United States: Colonial Times to 1970, I-126 and Unemployment Statistics during the Great Depression


If you can't refute this.....you've proven that all of my posts are 100% correct, accurate, and true.


Waiting.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Great Depression Was Ended by the End of World War II, Not the Start of It
> 
> 
> 
> How ridiculous
> 
> There was near full employment in WWII.
> There was a recession AFTER WWII
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You can’t be this stupid.
Click to expand...




They seem to treat that as a challenge.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Unkotare said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many UCLA economists agreed with the two UCLA authors, and  what was the UCLA  plan to fight depressions? Why didn't FDR at least use parts of the UCLA plan to fight the depression?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Desperation has made you irrational.
Click to expand...



Perhaps born that way......


----------



## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Debunked immediately as nonsense. Two partisan hacks and goofballs made a ridiculous claim. They were laughed at.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Proof of the debunking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They used a faulty system of calculating unemployment which ignored workers employed building American infrastructure and classified them as "welfare recipients" and designated their paychecks as government charity.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That’s not faulty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They counted men who builtr thousands of schools, armories, post offices, bridges, airports, Naval Ports, highways, schools, hospitals, sewers systems, parks,   Electric generating Dams, etc.....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> On government make-work programs designed to occupy the time of the unemployed, not production spurred by market forces. They were receiving assistance from the government rather than working jobs created by demand. There is a reason why make-work programs never work in the long term. In the end, they ARE a form of welfare and not sustainable.
> 
> Might as well have been Pharaoh building a new pyramid.
Click to expand...

Your only defense is that employed workers were not really employed because of how they got paid, not whether they were actually working on important jobs and building infrastructure, much of which is still standing and serving.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> FDR gave support to the birth of the early military-industrial complex during the mid and late 30's by financing the development of virtually all the modern weapons used to defeat Germany and Japan. Importance of developing modern weapons was something he learned as an assistant Sec. of rhe Navy in WWI. He guided the development of everything from the M1 Garrand to the B-17 and modern aircraft carriers. All the fighter aircraft that took out Japan and Germanies airforces were developed under the guidance of FDR.




This is one of your easiest lies to deflate.

"...a historian’s July 22, 2010, article on President Franklin Roosevelt and Great Britain in WW II. David Woolner wrote that in June 1939, which was three months before England declared war on Germany, "the roughly 180,000-man *U.S. Army ranked 19th in the world--smaller than Portugal’s!"*
U.S. army was smaller than the army for Portugal before World War II



Because Roosevelt wanted nothing more than to swim with the sharks....to be one with the other dictators, not fight them.



It was a terrible decision for Roosevelt to have to choose between Stalin and Hitler.


*" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union." *

*Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 48




It wasn't until 1940 that FDR recognized the need for the military.


WWII was the only thing that prevented FDR from becoming King or Czar!!!!

He suddenly needed capitalism!


1. Careful students of the Roosevelt presidency knew that war must be near because FDR had decided to change the tone of the political debate in Washington. For almost eight years, Wall Street bankers and corporate leaders had been his favorite scapegoats for explaining why the Great Depression was persisting. The premise of his New Deal, after all was that businessmen had failed and that government should regulate, plan and direct much of the American economy to break the hold of the Great Depression.”

2. On May 16, 1940, Roosevelt had addressed Congress and asked for more than a billion dollars for defense, with a commitment for fifty thousand military aircraft. He knew, also, that he needed the good will of business to win the war: no longer would he call them “privileged princes…thirsting for power.”


3. On May 26, 1940 his Fireside Chat signaled a new relationship with business: he would insure their profits, and assuage their fears that he would nationalize their factories.
a. “…we are calling upon the resources, the efficiency and the ingenuity of the American manufacturers of war material of all kinds -- airplanes and tanks and guns and ships, and all the hundreds of products that go into this material. The Government of the United States itself manufactures few of the implements of war. Private industry will continue to be the source of most of this material, and private industry will have to be speeded up to produce it at the rate and efficiency called for by the needs of the times…. Private industry will have the responsibility of providing the best, speediest and most efficient mass production of which it is capable.” On National Defense - May 26, 1940*


----------



## danielpalos

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many UCLA economists agreed with the two UCLA authors, and  what was the UCLA  plan to fight depressions? Why didn't FDR at least use parts of the UCLA plan to fight the depression?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FDR's responsibility for the 'Great Depression:
> Don't take my word for the ineptitude, here is Roosevelt BFF, secretary of the treasury, expert on finance and compendium of statistics on the economy of the 1930's:
> 
> " _“We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and *it does not work.* And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong…somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…I say*after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…And an enormous debt to boot!”*_
> Morgenthau Diary, May 9, 1939, Franklin Roosevelt Presidential Library
> 
> a. In 1935, the Brookings Institution (left-leaning) delivered a 900-page report on the New Deal and the National Recovery Administration, concluding that “ *on the whole it retarded recovery.*” article - AEI
Click to expand...

Hoover accomplished less.


----------



## danielpalos

Unkotare said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Great Depression Was Ended by the End of World War II, Not the Start of It
> 
> 
> 
> How ridiculous
> 
> There was near full employment in WWII.
> There was a recession AFTER WWII
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You can’t be this stupid.
Click to expand...




> Statistics showed a rise in GDP during the war.  But that just reflects misdefined statistical analysis.  The military guns, tanks, ships, and planes produced and counted as showing rising GDP did not reflect improved standards of living for working people, or anyone else.  Yes, they did win the war, and that victory was a social good, just as removing Saddam Hussein from power was a social good.  But these were not economic goods and services, and should not be counted as such.



Improved standards for working people would have been obtained through full employment.


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR gave support to the birth of the early military-industrial complex during the mid and late 30's by financing the development of virtually all the modern weapons used to defeat Germany and Japan. Importance of developing modern weapons was something he learned as an assistant Sec. of rhe Navy in WWI. He guided the development of everything from the M1 Garrand to the B-17 and modern aircraft carriers. All the fighter aircraft that took out Japan and Germanies airforces were developed under the guidance of FDR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of your easiest lies to deflate.
> 
> "...a historian’s July 22, 2010, article on President Franklin Roosevelt and Great Britain in WW II. David Woolner wrote that in June 1939, which was three months before England declared war on Germany, "the roughly 180,000-man *U.S. Army ranked 19th in the world--smaller than Portugal’s!"*
> U.S. army was smaller than the army for Portugal before World War II
> 
> 
> 
> Because Roosevelt wanted nothing more than to swim with the sharks....to be one with the other dictators, not fight them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was a terrible decision for Roosevelt to have to choose between Stalin and Hitler.
> 
> 
> *" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union." *
> 
> *Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 48
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't until 1940 that FDR recognized the need for the military.
> 
> 
> WWII was the only thing that prevented FDR from becoming King or Czar!!!!
> 
> He suddenly needed capitalism!
> 
> 
> 1. Careful students of the Roosevelt presidency knew that war must be near because FDR had decided to change the tone of the political debate in Washington. For almost eight years, Wall Street bankers and corporate leaders had been his favorite scapegoats for explaining why the Great Depression was persisting. The premise of his New Deal, after all was that businessmen had failed and that government should regulate, plan and direct much of the American economy to break the hold of the Great Depression.”
> 
> 2. On May 16, 1940, Roosevelt had addressed Congress and asked for more than a billion dollars for defense, with a commitment for fifty thousand military aircraft. He knew, also, that he needed the good will of business to win the war: no longer would he call them “privileged princes…thirsting for power.”
> 
> 
> 3. On May 26, 1940 his Fireside Chat signaled a new relationship with business: he would insure their profits, and assuage their fears that he would nationalize their factories.
> a. “…we are calling upon the resources, the efficiency and the ingenuity of the American manufacturers of war material of all kinds -- airplanes and tanks and guns and ships, and all the hundreds of products that go into this material. The Government of the United States itself manufactures few of the implements of war. Private industry will continue to be the source of most of this material, and private industry will have to be speeded up to produce it at the rate and efficiency called for by the needs of the times…. Private industry will have the responsibility of providing the best, speediest and most efficient mass production of which it is capable.” On National Defense - May 26, 1940*
Click to expand...

You have deflected away from the point and focus of my post. FDR's genius during this period was that knowing he could not get support for building military forces, he instead used his skills learned as an Assistant Sec. of the Navy during WWI, along with New Deal funds, to develop modern weapons that in time, would be instrumental to win WWII. When war broke out with the bombing of Pearl Harbor, American industrial might was ready to begin production of mass quantities of these weapons. Three of the worlds most modern aircraft carriers, Essex Class,  were already in the production, one, already being build since 1940. A new combat rifle, the high powered semi-automatic  M-1 Garrand as was the M-1 Carbine, was already in production. B-17's and B-24's were tested and flying. Fighter planes, the best ever developed were ready to be mass produced.


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How many UCLA economists agreed with the two UCLA authors, and  what was the UCLA  plan to fight depressions? Why didn't FDR at least use parts of the UCLA plan to fight the depression?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Republican Harding faced as serious a recession as Roosevelt did, *and solved it in a year and a half.*
> 
> 2. *Roosevelt took a recession and expanded it into a decade long Depression.*
> 
> 
> 3. For comparison:
> 
> a. While "The Depression" is probably the only economic downturn ever studied in government schools, few ever speak of any depressions or recessions prior to the "Great Depression."
> 
> Know how many there were?
> 
> Over thirty. And the average length was a year or so.
> 
> List of recessions in the United States - List of recessions in the United States - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> b. *"The Great Depression (1929-39) was the deepest and longest-lasting economic downturn in the history of the Western industrialized world. In the United States, *..."The Great Depression - Facts & Summary - HISTORY.com
> 
> Know why? 'Cause Roosevelt wanted it to be.
> 
> OK....so maybe Franklin Roosevelt was actually trying to end the depression.....never mind that *he made it last longer, by a multiple of five, from most previous depressions/recessions.....*
> 
> It sure was a good excuse for overturning the Constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Mull this over: FDR was good friends with Mussolini, Hitler, and Stalin.
> His New Deal was copied from Mussolini's economic plans.
> He wanted the same power that other dictators had.
> And he knew how to get it: keep the recession going.
> 
> 
> And he did.
Click to expand...


Yet more revisionist nonsense

1. Republican Harding faced as serious a recession as Roosevelt did, *and solved it in a year and a half.*

Frau Braun (PC) has her own timeline in ignoring that the Great Depression was in effect THREE AND A HALF YEARS before FDR took office in March 1933

Longer than Hardings embarrassing Presidency


----------



## Camp

OP likes to use a silly example of unemployed people standing in a line stretching across America. Problem is her unemployed workers were busy building bridges, highways, Navy Port, Army Airforce airports and facilities, schools, post offices, highways, dams, etc., etc. would have had to take the day off from work on their "RELIEF", "WELFARE" jobs.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR gave support to the birth of the early military-industrial complex during the mid and late 30's by financing the development of virtually all the modern weapons used to defeat Germany and Japan. Importance of developing modern weapons was something he learned as an assistant Sec. of rhe Navy in WWI. He guided the development of everything from the M1 Garrand to the B-17 and modern aircraft carriers. All the fighter aircraft that took out Japan and Germanies airforces were developed under the guidance of FDR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of your easiest lies to deflate.
> 
> "...a historian’s July 22, 2010, article on President Franklin Roosevelt and Great Britain in WW II. David Woolner wrote that in June 1939, which was three months before England declared war on Germany, "the roughly 180,000-man *U.S. Army ranked 19th in the world--smaller than Portugal’s!"*
> U.S. army was smaller than the army for Portugal before World War II
> 
> 
> 
> Because Roosevelt wanted nothing more than to swim with the sharks....to be one with the other dictators, not fight them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was a terrible decision for Roosevelt to have to choose between Stalin and Hitler.
> 
> 
> *" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union." *
> 
> *Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 48
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't until 1940 that FDR recognized the need for the military.
> 
> 
> WWII was the only thing that prevented FDR from becoming King or Czar!!!!
> 
> He suddenly needed capitalism!
> 
> 
> 1. Careful students of the Roosevelt presidency knew that war must be near because FDR had decided to change the tone of the political debate in Washington. For almost eight years, Wall Street bankers and corporate leaders had been his favorite scapegoats for explaining why the Great Depression was persisting. The premise of his New Deal, after all was that businessmen had failed and that government should regulate, plan and direct much of the American economy to break the hold of the Great Depression.”
> 
> 2. On May 16, 1940, Roosevelt had addressed Congress and asked for more than a billion dollars for defense, with a commitment for fifty thousand military aircraft. He knew, also, that he needed the good will of business to win the war: no longer would he call them “privileged princes…thirsting for power.”
> 
> 
> 3. On May 26, 1940 his Fireside Chat signaled a new relationship with business: he would insure their profits, and assuage their fears that he would nationalize their factories.
> a. “…we are calling upon the resources, the efficiency and the ingenuity of the American manufacturers of war material of all kinds -- airplanes and tanks and guns and ships, and all the hundreds of products that go into this material. The Government of the United States itself manufactures few of the implements of war. Private industry will continue to be the source of most of this material, and private industry will have to be speeded up to produce it at the rate and efficiency called for by the needs of the times…. Private industry will have the responsibility of providing the best, speediest and most efficient mass production of which it is capable.” On National Defense - May 26, 1940*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have deflected away from the point and focus of my post. FDR's genius during this period was that knowing he could not get support for building military forces, he instead used his skills learned as an Assistant Sec. of the Navy during WWI, along with New Deal funds, to develop modern weapons that in time, would be instrumental to win WWII. When war broke out with the bombing of Pearl Harbor, American industrial might was ready to begin production of mass quantities of these weapons. Three of the worlds most modern aircraft carriers, Essex Class,  were already in the production, one, already being build since 1940. A new combat rifle, the high powered semi-automatic  M-1 Garrand as was the M-1 Carbine, was already in production. B-17's and B-24's were tested and flying. Fighter planes, the best ever developed were ready to be mass produced.
Click to expand...




Everything I post is linked, documented, and sourced.....while you have become our best source of greenhouse gases.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> OP likes to use a silly example of unemployed people standing in a line stretching across America. Problem is her unemployed workers were busy building bridges, highways, Navy Port, Army Airforce airports and facilities, schools, post offices, highways, dams, etc., etc. would have had to take the day off from work on their "RELIEF", "WELFARE" jobs.





Get on the line.


----------



## Camp

The libraries and internet are loaded and full of inaccurate and false links and books and sources. Your stuff would never be accepted for a college thesis. Mostly your stuff is subjective opinion or outright political hackery.  
Explain Manly. I have asked you for years to explain him.  Near as I have learned is it was just a pen name for a radical FDR libertarian hate group connected to the cabal that leaked American WWII military contingency plans to Hitler via the Chicago Tribune. Do you contest the analysis?  Hitler used rhe leaked document in his Declaration of War on America.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> The libraries and internet are loaded and full of inaccurate and false links and books and sources. Your stuff would never be accepted for a college thesis. Mostly your stuff is subjective opinion or outright political hackery.
> Explain Manly. I have asked you for years to explain him.  Near as I have learned is it was just a pen name for a radical FDR libertarian hate group connected to the cabal that leaked American WWII military contingency plans to Hitler via the Chicago Tribune. Do you contest the analysis?  Hitler used rhe leaked document in his Declaration of War on America.




Everything I post is linked, documented, and sourced.....while you have become our best source of greenhouse gases.


----------



## Camp

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR gave support to the birth of the early military-industrial complex during the mid and late 30's by financing the development of virtually all the modern weapons used to defeat Germany and Japan. Importance of developing modern weapons was something he learned as an assistant Sec. of rhe Navy in WWI. He guided the development of everything from the M1 Garrand to the B-17 and modern aircraft carriers. All the fighter aircraft that took out Japan and Germanies airforces were developed under the guidance of FDR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of your easiest lies to deflate.
> 
> "...a historian’s July 22, 2010, article on President Franklin Roosevelt and Great Britain in WW II. David Woolner wrote that in June 1939, which was three months before England declared war on Germany, "the roughly 180,000-man *U.S. Army ranked 19th in the world--smaller than Portugal’s!"*
> U.S. army was smaller than the army for Portugal before World War II
> 
> 
> 
> Because Roosevelt wanted nothing more than to swim with the sharks....to be one with the other dictators, not fight them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was a terrible decision for Roosevelt to have to choose between Stalin and Hitler.
> 
> 
> *" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union." *
> 
> *Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 48
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't until 1940 that FDR recognized the need for the military.
> 
> 
> WWII was the only thing that prevented FDR from becoming King or Czar!!!!
> 
> He suddenly needed capitalism!
> 
> 
> 1. Careful students of the Roosevelt presidency knew that war must be near because FDR had decided to change the tone of the political debate in Washington. For almost eight years, Wall Street bankers and corporate leaders had been his favorite scapegoats for explaining why the Great Depression was persisting. The premise of his New Deal, after all was that businessmen had failed and that government should regulate, plan and direct much of the American economy to break the hold of the Great Depression.”
> 
> 2. On May 16, 1940, Roosevelt had addressed Congress and asked for more than a billion dollars for defense, with a commitment for fifty thousand military aircraft. He knew, also, that he needed the good will of business to win the war: no longer would he call them “privileged princes…thirsting for power.”
> 
> 
> 3. On May 26, 1940 his Fireside Chat signaled a new relationship with business: he would insure their profits, and assuage their fears that he would nationalize their factories.
> a. “…we are calling upon the resources, the efficiency and the ingenuity of the American manufacturers of war material of all kinds -- airplanes and tanks and guns and ships, and all the hundreds of products that go into this material. The Government of the United States itself manufactures few of the implements of war. Private industry will continue to be the source of most of this material, and private industry will have to be speeded up to produce it at the rate and efficiency called for by the needs of the times…. Private industry will have the responsibility of providing the best, speediest and most efficient mass production of which it is capable.” On National Defense - May 26, 1940*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have deflected away from the point and focus of my post. FDR's genius during this period was that knowing he could not get support for building military forces, he instead used his skills learned as an Assistant Sec. of the Navy during WWI, along with New Deal funds, to develop modern weapons that in time, would be instrumental to win WWII. When war broke out with the bombing of Pearl Harbor, American industrial might was ready to begin production of mass quantities of these weapons. Three of the worlds most modern aircraft carriers, Essex Class,  were already in the production, one, already being build since 1940. A new combat rifle, the high powered semi-automatic  M-1 Garrand as was the M-1 Carbine, was already in production. B-17's and B-24's were tested and flying. Fighter planes, the best ever developed were ready to be mass produced.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything I post is linked, documented, and sourced.....while you have become our best source of greenhouse gases.
Click to expand...

Really, you pretend to be some kind of educated intellectual but need cartoons to respond to criticism.


----------



## PoliticalChic

Camp said:


> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR gave support to the birth of the early military-industrial complex during the mid and late 30's by financing the development of virtually all the modern weapons used to defeat Germany and Japan. Importance of developing modern weapons was something he learned as an assistant Sec. of rhe Navy in WWI. He guided the development of everything from the M1 Garrand to the B-17 and modern aircraft carriers. All the fighter aircraft that took out Japan and Germanies airforces were developed under the guidance of FDR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of your easiest lies to deflate.
> 
> "...a historian’s July 22, 2010, article on President Franklin Roosevelt and Great Britain in WW II. David Woolner wrote that in June 1939, which was three months before England declared war on Germany, "the roughly 180,000-man *U.S. Army ranked 19th in the world--smaller than Portugal’s!"*
> U.S. army was smaller than the army for Portugal before World War II
> 
> 
> 
> Because Roosevelt wanted nothing more than to swim with the sharks....to be one with the other dictators, not fight them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was a terrible decision for Roosevelt to have to choose between Stalin and Hitler.
> 
> 
> *" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union." *
> 
> *Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 48
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't until 1940 that FDR recognized the need for the military.
> 
> 
> WWII was the only thing that prevented FDR from becoming King or Czar!!!!
> 
> He suddenly needed capitalism!
> 
> 
> 1. Careful students of the Roosevelt presidency knew that war must be near because FDR had decided to change the tone of the political debate in Washington. For almost eight years, Wall Street bankers and corporate leaders had been his favorite scapegoats for explaining why the Great Depression was persisting. The premise of his New Deal, after all was that businessmen had failed and that government should regulate, plan and direct much of the American economy to break the hold of the Great Depression.”
> 
> 2. On May 16, 1940, Roosevelt had addressed Congress and asked for more than a billion dollars for defense, with a commitment for fifty thousand military aircraft. He knew, also, that he needed the good will of business to win the war: no longer would he call them “privileged princes…thirsting for power.”
> 
> 
> 3. On May 26, 1940 his Fireside Chat signaled a new relationship with business: he would insure their profits, and assuage their fears that he would nationalize their factories.
> a. “…we are calling upon the resources, the efficiency and the ingenuity of the American manufacturers of war material of all kinds -- airplanes and tanks and guns and ships, and all the hundreds of products that go into this material. The Government of the United States itself manufactures few of the implements of war. Private industry will continue to be the source of most of this material, and private industry will have to be speeded up to produce it at the rate and efficiency called for by the needs of the times…. Private industry will have the responsibility of providing the best, speediest and most efficient mass production of which it is capable.” On National Defense - May 26, 1940*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have deflected away from the point and focus of my post. FDR's genius during this period was that knowing he could not get support for building military forces, he instead used his skills learned as an Assistant Sec. of the Navy during WWI, along with New Deal funds, to develop modern weapons that in time, would be instrumental to win WWII. When war broke out with the bombing of Pearl Harbor, American industrial might was ready to begin production of mass quantities of these weapons. Three of the worlds most modern aircraft carriers, Essex Class,  were already in the production, one, already being build since 1940. A new combat rifle, the high powered semi-automatic  M-1 Garrand as was the M-1 Carbine, was already in production. B-17's and B-24's were tested and flying. Fighter planes, the best ever developed were ready to be mass produced.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything I post is linked, documented, and sourced.....while you have become our best source of greenhouse gases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, you pretend to be some kind of educated intellectual but need cartoons to respond to criticism.
Click to expand...




Everything I post is linked, documented, and sourced.....while you have become our best source of greenhouse gases.


----------



## Unkotare

Camp said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> So why do America's most noted historians keep voting for FDR as one  of America's top three presidents? Do you  not believe the historians or you simply write your own history-as many conservatives on these boards do?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More faulty revisionist history
> 
> The Depression ended in 1939, ending it seven years earlier would have ended it in 1932, BEFORE FDR took over in March 1933
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All the anti-FDR crew has is revisionist crap.
Click to expand...



Presenting facts YOU are afraid to address is not revision.


----------



## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Billy_Kinetta said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those lists are no more than popularity contests driven by individual political ideology.
> 
> FDR advanced socialism in America.  At that time most Americans didn't have the faintest idea what socialism was.  His programs did nothing to drag America out of the Depression.  The war did that.
> 
> He was a "great wartime president" because he let the generals conduct the war.
> 
> 
> 
> So it was the war that caused the immense spending that brought  us out of the Great Depression, So Keynes was right and FDR should have followed Keyne's advice. Of course the Republican plan for the Great Depression was to balance the budget.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> *"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"*
> FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NEXT!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> More faulty revisionist history
> 
> The Depression ended in 1939, ending it seven years earlier would have ended it in 1932, BEFORE FDR took over in March 1933[/QUOE]
> All the anti-FDR crew has is revisionist crap.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Presenting facts YOU are afraid to address is not revision.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are just so pissed off about FDR and his Japanese internment program you will hate him forever and nothing will ever change your grudge.
Click to expand...


----------



## Camp

Japanese bombed America, captured more in the Philippines, tortured and murdered thousands, became animals in China, etc. FDR fucked them up and wreaked vengeance without mercy. He took no chance with Japanese living on the west coast.


----------



## rightwinger

Camp said:


> OP likes to use a silly example of unemployed people standing in a line stretching across America. Problem is her unemployed workers were busy building bridges, highways, Navy Port, Army Airforce airports and facilities, schools, post offices, highways, dams, etc., etc. would have had to take the day off from work on their "RELIEF", "WELFARE" jobs.


PC isn’t concerned with the welfare of struggling Americans, she only cares about the banks


----------



## rightwinger

PoliticalChic said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PoliticalChic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> FDR gave support to the birth of the early military-industrial complex during the mid and late 30's by financing the development of virtually all the modern weapons used to defeat Germany and Japan. Importance of developing modern weapons was something he learned as an assistant Sec. of rhe Navy in WWI. He guided the development of everything from the M1 Garrand to the B-17 and modern aircraft carriers. All the fighter aircraft that took out Japan and Germanies airforces were developed under the guidance of FDR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of your easiest lies to deflate.
> 
> "...a historian’s July 22, 2010, article on President Franklin Roosevelt and Great Britain in WW II. David Woolner wrote that in June 1939, which was three months before England declared war on Germany, "the roughly 180,000-man *U.S. Army ranked 19th in the world--smaller than Portugal’s!"*
> U.S. army was smaller than the army for Portugal before World War II
> 
> 
> 
> Because Roosevelt wanted nothing more than to swim with the sharks....to be one with the other dictators, not fight them.
> 
> 
> 
> It was a terrible decision for Roosevelt to have to choose between Stalin and Hitler.
> 
> 
> *" Fascism did not acquire an evil name in Washington until Hitler became a menace to·the Soviet Union." *
> 
> *Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p. 48
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wasn't until 1940 that FDR recognized the need for the military.
> 
> 
> WWII was the only thing that prevented FDR from becoming King or Czar!!!!
> 
> He suddenly needed capitalism!
> 
> 
> 1. Careful students of the Roosevelt presidency knew that war must be near because FDR had decided to change the tone of the political debate in Washington. For almost eight years, Wall Street bankers and corporate leaders had been his favorite scapegoats for explaining why the Great Depression was persisting. The premise of his New Deal, after all was that businessmen had failed and that government should regulate, plan and direct much of the American economy to break the hold of the Great Depression.”
> 
> 2. On May 16, 1940, Roosevelt had addressed Congress and asked for more than a billion dollars for defense, with a commitment for fifty thousand military aircraft. He knew, also, that he needed the good will of business to win the war: no longer would he call them “privileged princes…thirsting for power.”
> 
> 
> 3. On May 26, 1940 his Fireside Chat signaled a new relationship with business: he would insure their profits, and assuage their fears that he would nationalize their factories.
> a. “…we are calling upon the resources, the efficiency and the ingenuity of the American manufacturers of war material of all kinds -- airplanes and tanks and guns and ships, and all the hundreds of products that go into this material. The Government of the United States itself manufactures few of the implements of war. Private industry will continue to be the source of most of this material, and private industry will have to be speeded up to produce it at the rate and efficiency called for by the needs of the times…. Private industry will have the responsibility of providing the best, speediest and most efficient mass production of which it is capable.” On National Defense - May 26, 1940*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You have deflected away from the point and focus of my post. FDR's genius during this period was that knowing he could not get support for building military forces, he instead used his skills learned as an Assistant Sec. of the Navy during WWI, along with New Deal funds, to develop modern weapons that in time, would be instrumental to win WWII. When war broke out with the bombing of Pearl Harbor, American industrial might was ready to begin production of mass quantities of these weapons. Three of the worlds most modern aircraft carriers, Essex Class,  were already in the production, one, already being build since 1940. A new combat rifle, the high powered semi-automatic  M-1 Garrand as was the M-1 Carbine, was already in production. B-17's and B-24's were tested and flying. Fighter planes, the best ever developed were ready to be mass produced.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything I post is linked, documented, and sourced.....while you have become our best source of greenhouse gases.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Really, you pretend to be some kind of educated intellectual but need cartoons to respond to criticism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything I post is linked, documented, and sourced.....while you have become our best source of greenhouse gases.
Click to expand...


Everything you post is cut and paste that is deceptively edited, misrepresented or blatant conservative propaganda


----------



## Camp

rightwinger said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP likes to use a silly example of unemployed people standing in a line stretching across America. Problem is her unemployed workers were busy building bridges, highways, Navy Port, Army Airforce airports and facilities, schools, post offices, highways, dams, etc., etc. would have had to take the day off from work on their "RELIEF", "WELFARE" jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> PC isn’t concerned with the welfare of struggling Americans, she only cares about the banks
Click to expand...

FDR saved the banks.


----------



## Camp

rightwinger said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP likes to use a silly example of unemployed people standing in a line stretching across America. Problem is her unemployed workers were busy building bridges, highways, Navy Port, Army Airforce airports and facilities, schools, post offices, highways, dams, etc., etc. would have had to take the day off from work on their "RELIEF", "WELFARE" jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> PC isn’t concerned with the welfare of struggling Americans, she only cares about the banks
Click to expand...

FDR transitioned banks from bankruptcy to profits.


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## danielpalos

rightwinger said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP likes to use a silly example of unemployed people standing in a line stretching across America. Problem is her unemployed workers were busy building bridges, highways, Navy Port, Army Airforce airports and facilities, schools, post offices, highways, dams, etc., etc. would have had to take the day off from work on their "RELIEF", "WELFARE" jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> PC isn’t concerned with the welfare of struggling Americans, she only cares about the banks
Click to expand...

she would be happier with full body massage with happy ending.


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## Camp

On June 5, 1933, FDR took America off the Gold Standard and began the resolving of the Great  Depression and a building of American infrastructure as never before and never matched since. His plan was pure genius as he filled Fort Knox with American gold to be used as collateral for guaranteed loans for state governments to build infrastructure projects and paid back later with state taxes. Every state gladly paid back the loans as their incomes surged from their investments in infrastructure.  The effort also made America the richest country in rhe world.


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## Camp

You can not build a factory without being able to provide the factory with electricity. FDR built the dams that would provide the electricity Was how rhe phrase "Build it and they will come" was coined but included highways, bridges and such.


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## Unkotare

Camp said:


> Japanese bombed America, captured more in the Philippines, tortured and murdered thousands, became animals in China, etc. FDR fucked them up and wreaked vengeance without mercy. He took no chance with Japanese living on the west coast.



Illogical and anti-American


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## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese bombed America, captured more in the Philippines, tortured and murdered thousands, became animals in China, etc. FDR fucked them up and wreaked vengeance without mercy. He took no chance with Japanese living on the west coast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical and anti-American
Click to expand...

My family fought Jap's in WWII. One in particular on rhe USS Enterprise. He lost many friends and saw a lot of horrors. Another was a WAC. Guess she saw her share of horror also.
So, what did your family do during WWII?


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## Unkotare

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese bombed America, captured more in the Philippines, tortured and murdered thousands, became animals in China, etc. FDR fucked them up and wreaked vengeance without mercy. He took no chance with Japanese living on the west coast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical and anti-American
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My family fought Jap's in WWII. ...
Click to expand...



Who asked?


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## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese bombed America, captured more in the Philippines, tortured and murdered thousands, became animals in China, etc. FDR fucked them up and wreaked vengeance without mercy. He took no chance with Japanese living on the west coast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical and anti-American
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My family fought Jap's in WWII. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Who asked?
Click to expand...

I was responding to your anti-American response and comment.


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## Unkotare

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese bombed America, captured more in the Philippines, tortured and murdered thousands, became animals in China, etc. FDR fucked them up and wreaked vengeance without mercy. He took no chance with Japanese living on the west coast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical and anti-American
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My family fought Jap's in WWII. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Who asked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was responding to your anti-American response and comment.
Click to expand...



Mine was a highly accurate comment.


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## rightwinger

Camp said:


> rightwinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP likes to use a silly example of unemployed people standing in a line stretching across America. Problem is her unemployed workers were busy building bridges, highways, Navy Port, Army Airforce airports and facilities, schools, post offices, highways, dams, etc., etc. would have had to take the day off from work on their "RELIEF", "WELFARE" jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> PC isn’t concerned with the welfare of struggling Americans, she only cares about the banks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> FDR saved the banks.
Click to expand...


Saved the country


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## Camp

Unkotare said:


> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Japanese bombed America, captured more in the Philippines, tortured and murdered thousands, became animals in China, etc. FDR fucked them up and wreaked vengeance without mercy. He took no chance with Japanese living on the west coast.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical and anti-American
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My family fought Jap's in WWII. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Who asked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was responding to your anti-American response and comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mine was a highly accurate comment.
Click to expand...

Subjective opinion.


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## Unkotare

Camp said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Camp said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Illogical and anti-American
> 
> 
> 
> My family fought Jap's in WWII. ...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Who asked?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was responding to your anti-American response and comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Mine was a highly accurate comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Subjective opinion.
Click to expand...




Not at all.


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