# Obama-McCain Debate: Round 12 (Debate 3)



## Modbert

For those of us who won't be sleeping or passed out drunk; this thread is for talking about the debate during it,etc.

But while we wait:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fNgA5xLxao]YouTube - BARACKY II[/ame] 

"I will run a respectful campaign my friends." - John McCain

...*Opens mouth and closes it*...


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## CornbreadOracle

Tom Brokaw is such a cornball.

"All the president's men and all the people's money couldn't put this economy back together again."

I bet he worked all day on that.


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## Modbert

And they're off!

McCain looking Obama in the eye, that's a start.


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## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> Tom Brokaw is such a cornball.
> 
> "All the president's men and all the people's money couldn't put this economy back together again."
> 
> I bet he worked all day on that.



Tom Brokaw was a horrible moderator in my opinion.

If this is the way this is going to be set up, then Bob is already doing better.

McCain bringing up Nancy Reagan. Pandering to the right wing vote much?


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## AVG-JOE

"Why is your plan better than his?"

Did he _really_ ask that?!?

What a bullshit question!!

-Joe


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## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> "Why is your plan better than his?"
> 
> Did he _really_ ask that?!?
> 
> What a bullshit question!!
> 
> -Joe



Welcome to Politics. 

McCain better start invoking the term "my friends" every other sentence soon.


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## CornbreadOracle

Ack!   The government is getting into the housing market under McCain.   Sheesh.   That's only slightly LESS socialist than Obama's plan.

Worst financial crisis since the great depression....evil rich....yada yada yada....we got it!


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## strollingbones

obama is doing well on jobs...helping families etc...i dont know where all this money is coming from


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## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> Ack!   The government is getting into the housing market under McCain.   Sheesh.   That's only slightly LESS socialist than Obama's plan.
> 
> Worst financial crisis since the great depression....evil rich....yada yada yada....we got it!



I don't like how the economy has basically overtaken all three debates.

Not much else was talked about other then foreign policy at certain points.


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## AVG-JOE

Obama is doing well... even with a bullshit question.

-Joe


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## Modbert

strollingbones said:


> obama is doing well on jobs...helping families etc...i dont know where all this money is coming from



From the sky, both their plans have money coming from somewhere.

The honest answer? In the long run, the American people.


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## strollingbones

i hate this andocatol crap about joe the plumber


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## SwingVoter

Obama's getting grayer by the day.


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## Modbert

strollingbones said:


> i hate this andocatol crap about joe the plumber



McCain doesn't know anyone named Joe who is a Plumber.

Except if he passes him while the plumber is working on one of McCain's many homes.


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## CornbreadOracle

First blood!   McCain nailed Obama on Joe the plumber!




Obama's reply is boring me already.


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## Modbert

SwingVoter said:


> Obama's getting grayer by the day.



Imagine if he was President for all eight years, he'll probably have completely gray hair.


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## strollingbones

mccain is not doing well...he looks pasty...obama has a power tie on....and flag pin...but mccain doesnt...his tie is too sedated....o listen to mccain....obama needs to hit hard here


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## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> First blood!   McCain nailed Obama on Joe the plumber!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obama's reply is boring me already.



"Nailed" Obama on Joe the Plumber?



McCain has no clue about the economy. It's like watching a comedy bit to see him try to act like he knows something.

Perhaps I should change my drinking word to "Joe the Plumber" since McCain has said it 10 times already.


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## SwingVoter

Mac's having trouble getting his words out clearly.


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## SwingVoter

Mac 1 O nothing so far


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## Modbert

McCain is lying to himself and others if he is telling you he won't raise taxes.


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## SwingVoter

strollingbones said:


> mccain is not doing well...he looks pasty...



agree about pasty


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## strollingbones

o good question on the deficit


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## AVG-JOE

Now this is a reasonable question...

-Joe


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## strollingbones

so far i would call it a tie


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## Modbert

I must say, Bob made a great point there.

Interested to see how Obama reacts.


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## strollingbones

lol@pay as you go.....please.....he has better drugs than us


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## CornbreadOracle

Joe the Plumber is a real guy.    Obama's "spread the wealth" reply to Joe the Plumber is already infamous on talk radio as an example of his socialist policies.   I think Joe himself even called in to Rush's show today.    Don't y'all know most of this, though?


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## strollingbones

where is all this money coming from...free education free this ...free that....i agree in investing in our future but where is the money coming from


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## jillian

I actually thought McCain did better in the opening segment. It's just when he's at rest, he looks kind of weird.


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## CornbreadOracle

Oh Lord.   McCain is taking ideas from Senator Clinton.    This ain't good for the home team.


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## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> Joe the Plumber is a real guy.    Obama's "spread the wealth" reply to Joe the Plumber is already infamous on talk radio as an example of his socialist policies.   I think Joe himself even called in to Rush's show today.    Don't y'all know most of this, though?



Never said he didn't exist, but I'm saying McCain knows nothing what Joe the Plumber goes through.


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## jillian

strollingbones said:


> where is all this money coming from...free education free this ...free that....i agree in investing in our future but where is the money coming from



that's why people making more money actually have to pay the taxes they paid before Bush's improvident tax cuts.


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## strollingbones

does mac understand that "we" includes him?


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## SwingVoter

Obama looks like he's on the verge of doing some Al Gore sighs while McCain speaks.


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## CornbreadOracle

strollingbones said:


> mccain is not doing well...he looks pasty...obama has a power tie on....and flag pin...but mccain doesnt...his tie is too sedated....o listen to mccain....obama needs to hit hard here



McCain doesn't have to wear a lapel pin to prove his patriotism.    On that front he has nothing to prove.


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## jillian

CornbreadOracle said:


> Oh Lord.   McCain is taking ideas from Senator Clinton.    This ain't good for the home team.



why would you think either is the "home team"?


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## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> McCain doesn't have to wear a lapel pin to prove his patriotism.    On that front he has nothing to prove.



A ha but Obama does?

Hypocrisy then.


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## SwingVoter

Point for Obama -earmarks 1/2 of 1% of fed budget - I've been saying this for months


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## strollingbones

the overhead projecter was for a planetarium that had a projector from the late 60s i think.  now obama is hitting on bush and the gop over the last 8 years...mccain is still looking pasty...o good question balancing the budget in 4 years.....oooooooo good point by mccain..he is not bush


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## CornbreadOracle

Robert_Santurri said:


> Never said he didn't exist, but I'm saying McCain knows nothing what Joe the Plumber goes through.



Holy canoli!  For that matter neither does Obama.   Anyway it's beside the point.


OH!   McCain nailed Obama on the "President Bush" crap~!


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## Modbert

McCain thinks he can balance the budget in 4 years?

He really has lost it.

Not even Jesus with all his miracles could balance the budget in 4 years.

A hatchet and a scapel?


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## jillian

mccain's comment about running against Bush was really stupid... 

obama's gonna wail on him on that one...


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## strollingbones

CornbreadOracle said:


> McCain doesn't have to wear a lapel pin to prove his patriotism.    On that front he has nothing to prove.



look dickhead...i always do comments on the suit and ties....and the flag pin


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## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> Holy canoli!  For that matter neither does Obama.   Anyway it's beside the point.
> 
> 
> OH!   McCain nailed Obama on the "President Bush" crap~!



You do realize how Obama grew up and what he went through right?


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## Modbert

Point on Fox News for Obama.


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## strollingbones

ooo good shot by obama....even fox news disputes it....o now obama is hitting back


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## CornbreadOracle

jillian said:


> why would you think either is the "home team"?



The republican base, then.


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## DiveCon

strollingbones said:


> the overhead projecter was for a planetarium that had a projector from the late 60s i think. now obama is hitting on bush and the gop over the last 8 years...mccain is still looking pasty...o good question balancing the budget in 4 years.....oooooooo *good point by mccain..he is not bush*


 

yup
i liked that too


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## AVG-JOE

Damn!

Can I have a sip for "move in a new direction"?  It's close to "change"...

-Joe


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## strollingbones

mccain is looking weak now....i have the scars to prove it...etc...o the highroad


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## xsited1

To all those who watched the debate:


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## Modbert

Uh oh, here we go with the high road.

McCain is going to get smacked down here.


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## DiveCon

jillian said:


> mccain's comment about running against Bush was really stupid...
> 
> obama's gonna wail on him on that one...


he is?
he hasnt yet


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## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> Point on Fox News for Obama.


minus points, it was PETTY


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## AVG-JOE

I like this question...

-Joe


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## Modbert

AVG-JOE said:


> Damn!
> 
> Can I have a sip for "move in a new direction"?  It's close to "change"...
> 
> -Joe



*Thinks* Approved, sip as you want.


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## jillian

CornbreadOracle said:


> The republican base, then.



fair enough.


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## AVG-JOE

Town hall meetings would not have made this campaign less nasty...

-Joe


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## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> minus points, it was PETTY



Petty? No, truth.

McCain is bringing up what John Lewis is.

Barack Obama is not John Lewis Senator.


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## strollingbones

hubby thinks mccain is winning....and he hates mccain....obama needs to be hitting harder...mccain has ran a very dirty campaign


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## jillian

DiveCon said:


> he is?
> he hasnt yet



he was ok on it. not great.

but mccain's a coward... not calling him on the stuff he just got the opportunity to raise.


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## CornbreadOracle

Robert_Santurri said:


> A ha but Obama does?
> 
> Hypocrisy then.



I'm just saying that nobody ever notices if McCain wears a lapel pin.    Obviously it doesn't matter because his patriotism isn't in question.

Petty or not, this is an issue with Obama.   Lapel pins matter for him.


Oh, McCain is asking Obama to repudiate John Lewis's very offensive remarks about the McCain campaign.    Oh....got him on the public financing.    I am _really_ enjoying this debate right now.


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## strollingbones

lewis remarks were dead on....mccain has ran a very dirty campaign....esp with palins...


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## jillian

CornbreadOracle said:


> I'm just saying that nobody ever notices if McCain wears a lapel pin.    Obviously it doesn't matter because his patriotism isn't in question.
> 
> Petty or not, this is an issue with Obama.   Lapel pins matter for him.
> 
> 
> Oh, McCain is asking Obama to repudiate John Lewis's very offensive remarks about the McCain campaign.    Oh....got him on the public financing.    I am _really_ enjoying this debate right now.



you're not mccain's target audience. mccain wimped out on that question. people expected him to put his money where his pitbull's mouth is.


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## strollingbones

now mccain is suppose to bring up ayers...i wonder if he will and how that will go...i see it being a big mistake


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## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> I'm just saying that nobody ever notices if McCain wears a lapel pin.    Obviously it doesn't matter because his patriotism isn't in question.
> 
> Petty or not, this is an issue with Obama.   Lapel pins matter for him.
> 
> 
> Oh, McCain is asking Obama to repudiate John Lewis's very offensive remarks about the McCain campaign.    Oh....got him on the public financing.    I am _really_ enjoying this debate right now.



Obama already has, Barack is not John Lewis though. As much as you republicans would like to think. 

I don't see McCain apologizing to Obama for all the remarks made by the people at the McCain rallies.


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## Modbert

strollingbones said:


> now mccain is suppose to bring up ayers...i wonder if he will and how that will go...i see it being a big mistake



McCain't didn't bring up Ayers or Wright. Coward he is

And Obama addresses about John Lewis. Now what will McCain try to hold on to while trying to paint Obama as dirty?


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## strollingbones

now obama is spending some cash..that is what is killing mccain 8 to 1 in some toss up states in spending


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## CornbreadOracle

What?   Lewis compared the McCain campaign to George Wallace!   I don't know if you know who he is -- google him if you don't.   I'm from Alabama.   I do know about George Wallace and he was a racist of the worst caliber.   Any comparison is untrue and uncalled for.


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## Modbert

strollingbones said:


> now obama is spending some cash..that is what is killing mccain 8 to 1 in some toss up states in spending



Not Obama's fault.


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## strollingbones

Robert_Santurri said:


> McCain't didn't bring up Ayers or Wright. Coward he is





well its early....o great obama is going after palin....good points for obama.

o mac is interupting


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## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> What?   Lewis compared the McCain campaign to George Wallace!   I don't know if you know who he is -- google him if you don't.   I'm from Alabama.   I do know about George Wallace and he was a racist of the worst caliber.   Any comparison is untrue and uncalled for.



Obama just addressed it, now the Republicans need a new talking point to accuse Obama of.

When is McCain going to bring up Ayers and Wright? At another point to a question unrelated?

And OBAMA is the one to bring up Ayers. McCain still continues to be a coward and DEFENDS the people at his rallies.

Hypocrisy


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## CrimsonWhite

McCain looks and sounds like the McCain I remember. My favorite line so far, "If you wanted to run against George Bush you should have run four years ago."


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## strollingbones

what the hell is mac rambling about.....people who come to his ralley...that was not his question.....o the tshirts...


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## Modbert

What has been yelled at Obama's rallies? Care to expand on that McCain?

And he hasn't called out people for being wrong everytime they did that. McCain is lying here.


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## CrimsonWhite

Now McCain just hit Obama about his rallies. Points to him.


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## Modbert

strollingbones said:


> what the hell is mac rambling about.....people who come to his ralley...that was not his question.....o the tshirts...



The t-shirts about Sarah Palin, the ones that Obama hasn't even probably seen.

Anything else you'd like to blame Obama for McCain? How about Global Warming?


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## jillian

CrimsonWhite said:


> McCain looks and sounds like the McCain I remember. My favorite line so far, "If you wanted to run against George Bush you should have run four years ago."



Really? I thought that was an awful line.  But I guess it could work for his natural supporters.

The audience really didn't like the way he responded about the "kill him" stuff at the rallies, though... especially when he said that the people at his rallies are the "most upstanding, patriotic..." yadda, yadda.


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## jillian

Aw... he grew a pair... cool.


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## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> The t-shirts about Sarah Palin, the ones that Obama hasn't even probably seen.
> 
> Anything else you'd like to blame Obama for McCain? How about Global Warming?



The point is that you can't control what people do at rallies.


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## Modbert

Obama hitting McCain on Ayers and refuting about it along with ACORN.

McCain is going to look very bad here.


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## CrimsonWhite

jillian said:


> Really? I thought that was an awful line.  But I guess it could work for his natural supporters.
> 
> The audience really didn't like the way he responded about the "kill him" stuff at the rallies, though... especially when he said that the people at his rallies are the "most upstanding, patriotic..." yadda, yadda.



It was a great line and you know it.


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## AVG-JOE

ACORN can 'destroy the fabric of democracy'?

What the fuck?!?!

-Joe


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## strollingbones

obama is addressing the ayers issue....mccain looks sillie here....


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> The point is that you can't control what people do at rallies.



Obama can't control what people wear. However Obama speaks out whenever they boo McCain or say such things. McCain and Palin don't.

Palin in fact encourages it.


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## CornbreadOracle

Robert_Santurri said:


> Obama just addressed it, now the Republicans need a new talking point to accuse Obama of.
> 
> When is McCain going to bring up Ayers and Wright? At another point to a question unrelated?
> 
> And OBAMA is the one to bring up Ayers. McCain still continues to be a coward and DEFENDS the people at his rallies.
> 
> Hypocrisy



There you go....question asked.    Scheiffer (sp?) is OBVIOUSLY biased.

Kudos to McCain for bringing up ACORN.    Obama is dodging nicely, though.   Same old "I was 8 years old" malarky.


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## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> It was a great line and you know it.



Oh okay, McCain isn't Bush. He's only Bush 90-95% of the time. 

That better for you Crimson?


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## jillian

Well handled on Ayers... well handled on ACORN...now let's see if he says he hired a subsidiary of ACORN to do some voter registration with.


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## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> Obama can't control what people wear. However Obama speaks out whenever they boo McCain or say such things. McCain and Palin don't.
> 
> Palin in fact encourages it.


you are again, WRONG
McCain HAS spoken out


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## strollingbones

CornbreadOracle said:


> There you go....question asked.    Scheiffer (sp?) is OBVIOUSLY biased.
> 
> Kudos to McCain for bringing up ACORN.    Obama is dodging nicely, though.   Same old "I was 8 years old" malarky.



he was 8 yrs old when ayers committed the bombings...i think obama handled it well....


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## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> There you go....question asked.    Scheiffer (sp?) is OBVIOUSLY biased.
> 
> Kudos to McCain for bringing up ACORN.    Obama is dodging nicely, though.   Same old "I was 8 years old" malarky.



Obama is refuting, if you refuse to accept his answers then that's your choice.

Continue to think there's a giant conspiracy concerning Ayers. 

Get your camera ready though. Obama, Ayers, and Osama Bin Laden are all going out for drinks after the debate. 

Oh wait, if Obama associated with someone in the 90's, why do the comments in 2001 matter against Obama?


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## jillian

Robert_Santurri said:


> Obama can't control what people wear. However Obama speaks out whenever they boo McCain or say such things. McCain and Palin don't.
> 
> Palin in fact encourages it.



palin tries to rev up a lynch mob


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## strollingbones

obama just called mccain a liar


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## jillian

McCain's falling really flat here.


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## CornbreadOracle

McCain is TOTALLY nailing Obama on ACORN and AYERS!    YEAH!


Bob Scheiffer needs to stop interrupting McCain.


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## strollingbones

mccain realizes the mistep and is hitting on taxes again...he keeps saying that...like anyone believe either one of them wont raise taxes....o good question on running mates


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## Modbert

jillian said:


> palin tries to rev up a lynch mob



Exactly, she's the one who is trying to rev up a lynch mob.

Meanwhile the McCain campaign acts like their hand hasn't been caught in the cookie jar.

Ohh running mate question.


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## AVG-JOE

Big John is having a hard time... Talking points are not helping tonight.

-Joe


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## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> McCain is TOTALLY nailing Obama on ACORN and AYERS!    YEAH!
> 
> 
> Bob Scheiffer needs to stop interrupting McCain.



Take off the blinders for about two minutes and join the rest of us.


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## Modbert

Joe Biden > Block of Wood > Sarah Palin


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## jillian

strollingbones said:


> he was 8 yrs old when ayers committed the bombings...i think obama handled it well....



I liked the way he went through all of the repubs who were on the same board that McCain and Palin have been whining about. That was well done.


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## strollingbones

i still dont think either one is ahead....i dont think at this point much can change peoples minds...


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## CornbreadOracle

Robert_Santurri said:


> Obama is refuting, if you refuse to accept his answers then that's your choice.
> 
> Continue to think there's a giant conspiracy concerning Ayers.
> 
> Get your camera ready though. Obama, Ayers, and Osama Bin Laden are all going out for drinks after the debate.
> 
> Oh wait, if Obama associated with someone in the 90's, why do the comments in 2001 matter against Obama?



I"ll get back to you after debate.    It's a long answer -- but I assure you I have an answer.


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## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> Take off the blinders for about two minutes and join the rest of us.


with the blinders you wear?
how could you even tell if he had any on?
LOL


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## strollingbones

even mccain chokes when talking about palin lol


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## strollingbones

and we go off on special needs ... united the party? and people ...what the hell is mc smoking....


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## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> with the blinders you wear?
> how could you even tell if he had any on?
> LOL



I don't wear blinders DiveCon. Don't you have another thread to be a right wing extremist in?

McCain talking about special needs, yeah! Using that baby as a political prop! Woot!


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## Modbert

strollingbones said:


> and we go off on special needs ... united the party? and people ...what the hell is mc smoking....



Perhaps we should of had Sawwah work with Dubya?

And awesome point by Obama on the funding. The funding that McCain wants to FREEZE.

Obama just took McCain's knight on that one and dragged it off the board.


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## CornbreadOracle

DiveCon said:


> with the blinders you wear?
> how could you even tell if he had any on?
> LOL



Not that it matters but he (me) is a she.


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## Modbert

How can you have accountability on special needs if they don't have the funding to try and figure out these things?

McCain is trying to dig himself out of a deep hole he put himself in.


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## DiveCon

LOL point to McCain for correcting Bob


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## CornbreadOracle

strollingbones said:


> and we go off on special needs ... united the party? and people ...what the hell is mc smoking....



MC is talking about the FACT that Sarah Palin energized the Republican base.   Before she joined the ticket, we were tepid on McCain.    Many of us still are, but we agree that he's a sight better than Obama.

Anyway, that's what MAC was getting at.


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## DiveCon

CornbreadOracle said:


> Not that it matters but he (me) is a she.


didnt know


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## AVG-JOE

Climate 'change'...

I'll drink to that!!

-Joe


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## WillowTree

CornbreadOracle said:


> Holy canoli!  For that matter neither does Obama.   Anyway it's beside the point.
> 
> 
> OH!   McCain nailed Obama on the "President Bush" crap~!





Yep! that was long overdue.


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## strollingbones

someone might want to tell mc we dont have the water for 45 plants


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## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> I don't wear blinders DiveCon. Don't you have another thread to be a right wing extremist in?
> 
> McCain talking about special needs, yeah! Using that baby as a political prop! Woot!


dude, your blinders are so thick, you cant see the daylight


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## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> LOL point to McCain for correcting Bob



Is this a debate between McCain and Bob? Did I miss the point where Obama just got up and left?


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## jillian

CornbreadOracle said:


> MC is talking about the FACT that Sarah Palin energized the Republican base.   Before she joined the ticket, we were tepid on McCain.    Many of us still are, but we agree that he's a sight better than Obama.
> 
> Anyway, that's what MAC was getting at.



I think you're right... she energized your base. But she's alienated pretty much everyone else.


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## CornbreadOracle

DiveCon said:


> didnt know



Doesn't matter.    And yes, it was funny when McCain corrected ole Bob.


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## WillowTree

Robert_Santurri said:


> I don't wear blinders DiveCon. Don't you have another thread to be a right wing extremist in?
> 
> McCain talking about special needs, yeah! Using that baby as a political prop! Woot!



Special needs children is of an interest to a great many people who can empathize with Palin and she with them. it's a fact and she is not using her baby. And your are a idiot for continuing to repeat that load of crap.


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## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> Is this a debate between McCain and Bob? Did I miss the point where Obama just got up and left?


it was a JOKE, MORON, get a sense of humor transplant


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## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> dude, your blinders are so thick, you cant see the daylight



"Dude" Your so much of a right winger, you'd make a good replacement for Sean Hannity on his show if he ever got sick.


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## AVG-JOE

Clean coal technology is gonna cost... Is big John going to spend, or hope his rich buddies invest their tax breaks in energy research?

Which do _you_ think we should do?

-Joe


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## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> it was a JOKE, MORON, get a sense of humor transplant



I was joking too, fool. Get a sense of humor and stop being pissy because your candidate is most likely going to lose the election.

What is with the Republicans getting angrier by the day?


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## WillowTree

Robert_Santurri said:


> "Dude" Your so much of a right winger, you'd make a good replacement for Sean Hannity on his show if he ever got sick.





well now that you mention it Keith!


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## Modbert

WillowTree said:


> Special needs children is of an interest to a great many people who can empathize with Palin and she with them. it's a fact and she is not using her baby. And your are a idiot for continuing to repeat that load of crap.



Well how is she with them if she supports funding freezing on trying to find a cure or better treatment for the special needs children?

Mind answering that one professor?


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## Modbert

WillowTree said:


> well now that you mention it Keith!



Keith is an intelligent speaker who despite having a high amount of Left Wing Bias does make sense most of the time.

Can't say the same about racist Hannity. *Cough Hal Turner Cough*


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## strollingbones

ooooooo mccain is going off on driling...more education for displaced workers?  ..that will cost wont it...columbian is our largest importer?


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## jillian

Where's McCain getting the money for "training programs" if he's freezing spending?


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## CornbreadOracle

jillian said:


> I think you're right... she energized your base. But she's alienated pretty much everyone else.



Well, the media would have you think that.   Go right ahead and think it.

Yeah for free trade!


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## strollingbones

o he shouldnt go to the failed drug war.


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## Modbert

jillian said:


> Where's McCain getting the money for "training programs" if he's freezing spending?



Exactly the point I've been trying to make. Personally with the amount of BS he spews, we might have a new energy source.


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## DiveCon

WillowTree said:


> well now that you mention it Keith!


uh, he was replaced

opps
LOL


----------



## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> Well, the media would have you think that.   Go right ahead and think it.
> 
> Yeah for free trade!



"The Media" huh? Oh yes, you got that message drilled into your head.

Why is it McCain is falling so badly in the polls then? Short of calling the American people idiots on your part?


----------



## jillian

CornbreadOracle said:


> Well, the media would have you think that.   Go right ahead and think it.
> 
> Yeah for free trade!



Well, it's the right wing media that's been clamoring for her to step down. But I didn't need the media to tell me that McCain's polls started to plummet as soon as she started to talk.


----------



## CornbreadOracle

There goes Scheiffer interupting again.    I knew he was a biased media elite hack.


Silly Robert.   Conservatives don't drill political messages into our heads.    We do that at church!


----------



## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> "The Media" huh? Oh yes, you got that message drilled into your head.
> 
> *Why is it McCain is falling so badly in the polls then*? Short of calling the American people idiots on your part?


over sampling of democrats


----------



## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> There goes Scheiffer interupting again.    I knew he was a biased media elite hack.
> 
> 
> Silly Robert.   Conservatives don't drill political messages into our heads.    We do that at church!



Let me guess, you don't happen to believe we should follow the church's stance on many if not all issues do you?


----------



## strollingbones

good answer by obama on health care....mccain acts like companies want to give health insurance to people..i like the idea of negociating with drug companies and preventive care


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> over sampling of democrats




puleeze...


----------



## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> Let me guess, you don't happen to believe we should follow the church's stance on many if not all issues do you?


i've never been in a church that had political stances


----------



## DiveCon

jillian said:


> puleeze...


i know, the facts dont fit your ideals


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> over sampling of democrats



 That's the best one I heard yet. I guess Obama raising those hundreds of millions of dollars through a grassroots campaign is just another Liberal myth then huh?

Obama if the elections were held today would win. I know that must keep you up at night, but don't be ignorant and think every single poll (Including Republican ones that have Obama ahead) is oversampling Democrats.


----------



## CornbreadOracle

jillian said:


> Well, it's the right wing media that's been clamoring for her to step down. But I didn't need the media to tell me that McCain's polls started to plummet as soon as she started to talk.



Wait....I must have missed a memo.    Let me get out my Secret Republican Decoder Ring because nobody told me that the right wing media was calling for Palin to step down.   Rush and Hannity really like her and want McCain to unleash her.


PHysical fitness programs in school??!!!   Just throw MORE money at the school system.   That'll fix EVERYTHING.    Yeah, right.    This is why real conservatives are tepid on McCain.


But don't forget, we looooooooooove Palin.


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> i've never been in a church that had political stances



All churches do. The church itself has political stances, hell the churches use to run the government's back in the 1400's,etc.

If it wasn't for the church, Gay Marriage would be legal for example.


----------



## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> That's the best one I heard yet. I guess Obama raising those hundreds of millions of dollars through a grassroots campaign is just another Liberal myth then huh?
> 
> Obama if the elections were held today would win. I know that must keep you up at night, but don't be ignorant and think every single poll (Including Republican ones that have Obama ahead) is oversampling Democrats.


this proves you never read the DETAILS


----------



## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> Wait....I must have missed a memo.    Let me get out my Secret Republican Decoder Ring because nobody told me that the right wing media was calling for Palin to step down.   Rush and Hannity really like her and want McCain to unleash her.
> 
> 
> PHysical fitness programs in school??!!!   Just throw MORE money at the school system.   That'll fix EVERYTHING.    Yeah, right.    This is why real conservatives are tepid on McCain.
> 
> 
> But don't forget, we looooooooooove Palin.



I'm a high school senior and McCain thinks that No Child Left Behind has made the school system better.

...Yeah, the guy is out of touch by a long way.


----------



## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> All churches do. The church itself has political stances, hell the churches use to run the government's back in the 1400's,etc.
> 
> If it wasn't for the church, Gay Marriage would be legal for example.


you didnt READ what i said


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> this proves you never read the DETAILS



Show me all the current polls that have McCain winning then?


----------



## jillian

CornbreadOracle said:


> Wait....I must have missed a memo.    Let me get out my Secret Republican Decoder Ring because nobody told me that the right wing media was calling for Palin to step down.   Rush and Hannity really like her and want McCain to unleash her.
> 
> 
> PHysical fitness programs in school??!!!   Just throw MORE money at the school system.   That'll fix EVERYTHING.    Yeah, right.    This is why real conservatives are tepid on McCain.
> 
> 
> But don't forget, we looooooooooove Palin.



You love Palin because she's a religious right type... the rest of the country thinks she's pretty unfit to go anywhere near the oval office.


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> you didnt READ what i said



I did, you said any church you've been to never had political stances.

However, they do. They might not come out and say it but your taught that certain things are wrong.

Believing in Karma? WRONG

Masturbation? WRONG

Gay Marriage? WRONG

Abortion? WRONG

Trust me, I think I would know having just had my confirmation this year and learning everything the church is specifically against.


----------



## CornbreadOracle

Robert_Santurri said:


> Let me guess, you don't happen to believe we should follow the church's stance on many if not all issues do you?



That was saracasm.   Maybe you're not familiar with the concept.

And, since you asked, I DON'T think we should follow the "church's stance" (whatever that is) any issues at all, politically speaking.    We should follow the Constitution.   That seems pretty obvious to me, but maybe you're not familiar with that concept either.


----------



## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> Show me all the current polls that have McCain winning then?


you either didnt read what i said, you you didnt understand it


----------



## WillowTree

Robert_Santurri said:


> Well how is she with them if she supports funding freezing on trying to find a cure or better treatment for the special needs children?
> 
> Mind answering that one professor?






she dosen't


----------



## DiveCon

CornbreadOracle said:


> That was saracasm.   Maybe you're not familiar with the concept.
> 
> And, since you asked, I DON'T think we should follow the "church's stance" (whatever that is) any issues at all, politically speaking.    We should follow the Constitution.   That seems pretty obvious to me, but maybe you're not familiar with that concept either.


he doesnt understand simple concepts


----------



## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> That was saracasm.   Maybe you're not familiar with the concept.
> 
> And, since you asked, I DON'T think we should follow the "church's stance" (whatever that is) any issues at all, politically speaking.    We should follow the Constitution.   That seems pretty obvious to me, but maybe you're not familiar with that concept either.



Interesting. Do you believe it should at any point be edited?


----------



## CornbreadOracle

Robert_Santurri said:


> All churches do. The church itself has political stances, hell the churches use to run the government's back in the 1400's,etc.
> 
> If it wasn't for the church, Gay Marriage would be legal for example.



Clearly, you haven't been in a church in a while....things have changed since 1400, btw.


----------



## Modbert

WillowTree said:


> she dosen't



But she does, she is McCain's running mate. Where has she been different then McCain on anything without later backtracking?

Well Professor? Want to answer that brain buster because I already know the answer.


----------



## Modbert

Here we go, Abortion.

John McCain: For Roe V Wade before he was against it.


----------



## CornbreadOracle

Holy crap!   WHY is it the employers' obligation to provide health insurance.



Oooooooh.    Supreme Court question.    And Roe V. Waid IS a states rights issue.


----------



## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> Clearly, you haven't been in a church in a while....things have changed since 1400, btw.



I think you've failed to realize the facts.

I do know things have changed since the 1400's. 

Like for example:

The church is no longer killing people for saying the world ISN'T flat.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

McCain is hitting the GOP high points. Obama is winning again though. McCain is better in this one, but is still falling a little flat. Obama is just cruising.


----------



## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> Holy crap!   WHY is it the employers' obligation to provide health insurance.
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooooh.    Supreme Court question.    And Roe V. Waid IS a states rights issue.



Might be a good idea to spell it right 

*Waits for the backlash*


----------



## CrimsonWhite

McCain is right on on the appointment of Justices.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> McCain is right on on the appointment of Justices.



If McCain dare tried to appoint someone who was for Abortion, the Republican Party would want him hanged for treason against their party. He'd never do it.


----------



## CornbreadOracle

jillian said:


> You love Palin because she's a religious right type... the rest of the country thinks she's pretty unfit to go anywhere near the oval office.




No.    I could not care less what religion she is.    I care that she is a conservative.


You are completely, and possibly deliberately, misunderstanding Palin's appeal to the right wing Republican base.


----------



## jillian

CrimsonWhite said:


> McCain is hitting the GOP high points. Obama is winning again though. McCain is better in this one, but is still falling a little flat. Obama is just cruising.



McCain did better than Obama at the very beginning.  But Obama has a stronger grasp of facts and a nicer demeanor. I liked what he said re Roe v Wade, which is "good people on both sides can disagree". He took the issue heaad on. I liked that.

Yay!! He's talking about Ledbetter!!

Wooo Hoooo!


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> If McCain dare tried to appoint someone who was for Abortion, the Republican Party would want him hanged for treason against their party. He'd never do it.



In your opinion.


----------



## CornbreadOracle

CrimsonWhite said:


> McCain is right on on the appointment of Justices.



He is.


War Eagle!


----------



## CrimsonWhite

CornbreadOracle said:


> He is.
> 
> 
> War Eagle!



Great another barner from the plains. lol


----------



## jillian

CornbreadOracle said:


> No.    I could not care less what religion she is.    I care that she is a conservative.
> 
> 
> You are completely, and possibly deliberately, misunderstanding Palin's appeal to the right wing Republican base.



No. I'm not. Because real conservatives stay out of other people's bedrooms a la Goldwater. Someone who doesn't believe in abortion even in the face of rape or incest is radical right. Plus, certainly I'm not expert on the conservative mindset, but I see the "true conservatives" on television... people whom I actually do respect, like Peggy Noonan, who are appalled by her lack of knowledge.

Frankly, I think Palin's an embarrassment and I suspect that if she were pro choice, so would you. That's my feeling on the subject. Might I be wrong, of course.


----------



## Modbert

"Nobody is Pro-Abortion."

Great point by Obama.

McCain already spoke out about the immediate repeal of Roe V Wade in 1999 saying it's a HORRIBLE idea.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Great. Education. This is where Obama wins.


----------



## Modbert

I'm happy the final question is education.


----------



## Modbert

Obama is hitting the nail on the head here with the hammer.

I like his idea about community service too. As a high school senior currently, I wouldn't mind doing such a thing.


----------



## Modbert

Senator McCain, even schools that have never failed before are failing under No Child Left Behind because of the horrible policy that it is.

The worst school systems in America DON'T get the most money per student. Least that's not how it works here in Rhode Island.


----------



## jillian

CrimsonWhite said:


> Great. Education. This is where Obama wins.



Total props from Brooklyn for honesty... yo!


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> Senator McCain, even schools that have never failed before are failing under No Child Left Behind because of the horrible policy that it is.
> 
> The worst school systems in America DON'T get the most money per student. Least that's not how it works here in Rhode Island.



I bet McCain can back that up better than you can.


----------



## jillian

"unfortunately, they left the money behind"

heh heheheheheh


----------



## WillowTree

Robert_Santurri said:


> "Nobody is Pro-Abortion."
> 
> Great point by Obama.
> 
> McCain already spoke out about the immediate repeal of Roe V Wade in 1999 saying it's a HORRIBLE idea.





That's just another stupid play on words. "nobody is pro-abortion" fine then let's abolish Roe v. Wade watchya say?


----------



## Modbert

jillian said:


> "unfortunately, they left the money behind"
> 
> heh heheheheheh



So very true.

"America's children aren't a interest group, they are our future."


----------



## Modbert

WillowTree said:


> That's just another stupid play on words. "nobody is pro-abortion" fine then let's abolish Roe v. Wade watchya say?



Nobody wants abortions to occur, but we don't live in a utopia. That's the point Obama was trying to make.


----------



## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> Senator McCain, even schools that have never failed before are failing under No Child Left Behind because of the horrible policy that it is.
> 
> The worst school systems in America DON'T get the most money per student. Least that's not how it works here in Rhode Island.


 


jillian said:


> "unfortunately, they left the money behind"
> 
> heh heheheheheh


 blame Ted Kennedy for that, NCLB was his baby


----------



## CornbreadOracle

jillian said:


> No. I'm not. Because real conservatives stay out of other people's bedrooms a la Goldwater. Someone who doesn't believe in abortion even in the face of rape or incest is radical right. Plus, certainly I'm not expert on the conservative mindset, but I see the "true conservatives" on television... people whom I actually do respect, like Peggy Noonan, who are appalled by her lack of knowledge.
> 
> Frankly, I think Palin's an embarrassment and I suspect that if she were pro choice, so would you. That's my feeling on the subject. Might I be wrong, of course.



That's where you're wrong.   Staying out of someone's bedroom means you don't tell them who they can sleep with (speaking of consenting adults, of course)  or what they do when the bedroom door closes.   I haven't heard Palin go into anyone's bedroom.   Abortion doesn't happen in a bedroom -- and before you bring up -- neither does gay marriage.   

Abortion is a basic tenet of socialism because it removes the value of the individual.   Once the individual is devalued, it become easier to implant the idea that the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the one.   Capitalism, on the other hand, promotes individualism.  In fact, an individualistic society necessary for a capitalist system to thrive.  This is why I do not support legalized abortion as a social policy.   

My personal religious beliefs regarding abortion are mine alone.   I would never impose them on anyone else.   

Now, back to the debate this lame discussion about throwing more money at the pathetic and illegal department of education....


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> I bet McCain can back that up better than you can.



I'm telling you that Rhode Island across the board in Math, Reading, and Science have some pretty bad numbers and the whole state is broke education wise.

Why? Under-funded.


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> blame Ted Kennedy for that, NCLB was his baby



Actually, it was bi-partisan. And then the repub congress wouldn't vote the money for it. You do remember you all held the purse strings then, right?

Besides, I always knew No child left behind sucked... but that's because I have a son who's school was affected by it.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

McCain is actually holding his own on education. He is speakng to the issue well.


----------



## Modbert

Great point by Obama on D.C schools.


----------



## Modbert

jillian said:


> Actually, it was bi-partisan. And then the repub congress wouldn't vote the money for it. You do remember you all held the purse strings then, right?
> 
> Besides, I always knew No child left behind sucked... but that's because I have a son who's school was affected by it.



Don't throw out facts Jillian. That makes DiveCon's head hurt.


----------



## Ravi

I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but why does McCain keep pretending autism is the same as down's syndrome?


----------



## jillian

CrimsonWhite said:


> McCain is actually holding his own on education. He is speakng to the issue well.



Except he wasn't as well-informed. And he needed to do more than hold his own, I think.

And his behavior during the last question was smug and obnoxious and wrong.


----------



## Modbert

Ravi said:


> I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but why does McCain keep pretending autism is the same as down's syndrome?



No one has brought that up and because McCain has no clue what the hell he is talking about.

He's using Palin's kid as a political prop. Plain and Simple.


----------



## Modbert

Why am I surprised? McCain is talking about being in the Military.

Huge shock


----------



## jillian

Ravi said:


> I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but why does McCain keep pretending autism is the same as down's syndrome?



no one's brought it up. frankly, i hadn't noticed. but you're right. maybe all special needs are interchangeable to him.


----------



## Ravi

Robert_Santurri said:


> No one has brought that up and because McCain has no clue what the hell he is talking about.
> 
> He's using Palin's kid as a political prop. Plain and Simple.


That's what I thought...I just wasn't sure if he thought one or more of Palin's kids were autistic.


----------



## SwingVoter

LOL 

Obama won't support vouchers because the teachers union lobby has given him big bucks not to


----------



## DavidS

Debate moment of the night!

McCain: ZERO!?!?!


----------



## Modbert

Ravi said:


> That's what I thought...I just wasn't sure if he thought one or more of Palin's kids were autistic.



Who knows what he thinks.

I don't how he expects to help solve such things if he does across the board freezing.


----------



## DiveCon

jillian said:


> Actually, it was bi-partisan. And then the repub congress wouldn't vote the money for it. You do remember you all held the purse strings then, right?
> 
> Besides, I always knew No child left behind sucked... but that's because I have a son who's school was affected by it.


i knew it would suck before it passed


----------



## Modbert

DavidS said:


> Debate moment of the night!
> 
> McCain: ZERO!?!?!



Well he learned something new tonight, hence the shock.


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> i knew it would suck before it passed



Same here.

Nobody in my school thinks NCLB is a good idea, teachers included.

Only ones who do are the administrators who keep repeating the mantra "It's the law, you must follow it." Very 1984ish to say the least.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> Why am I surprised? McCain is talking about being in the Military.
> 
> Huge shock



Why not? It is part of his resume. Go enlist and you will figure out why he is so proud of his service.


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> i knew it would suck before it passed



a subject we agree on...who'd a thunk it.

But I'm funny about education. I don't believe in making great schools mediocre as opposed to making bad schools good. And I always thought that's what that law would do. Too much like Rainbow Fish... I hate that story.


----------



## CornbreadOracle

SwingVoter said:


> LOL
> 
> Obama won't support vouchers because the teachers union lobby has given him big bucks not to



You got that right!


----------



## del

Robert_Santurri said:


> "Dude" Your so much of a right winger, you'd make a good replacement for Sean Hannity on his show if he ever got sick.



snappy. think of it yourself?


----------



## CornbreadOracle

Robert_Santurri said:


> Who knows what he thinks.
> 
> I don't how he expects to help solve such things if he does across the board freezing.



Robert, I told you I'd get back to you on something....what was it?   Things were moving pretty fast and I got side tracked by Jillians little abortion debacle......Care to refresh me?   I hate to go back on my word.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> Why not? It is part of his resume. Go enlist and you will figure out why he is so proud of his service.



Never said he can't be proud of his service. But it'd be nice to hear about his other accomplishments other then the military which he never ceases to bring up or never ceases to be brought up by others around him.


----------



## jillian

SwingVoter said:


> LOL
> 
> Obama won't support vouchers because the teachers union lobby has given him big bucks not to



No. Obama won't support vouchers because they suck money from public schools and siphon funds into parochial schools.... same reason most of us who oppose vouchers do.


----------



## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> Robert, I told you I'd get back to you on something....what was it?   Things were moving pretty fast and I got side tracked by Jillians little abortion debacle......Care to refresh me?   I hate to go back on my word.



I believe it was Ayers? Could be wrong on the topic.

It was the comments that McCain brought up about what Ayers said in 01, and Obama served on the board with Ayers over ten years ago.

So I said the comments in 01 don't apply to Obama. 

Republicans really seem to focus on the "Guilt by Association" thing.


----------



## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> Same here.
> 
> Nobody in my school thinks NCLB is a good idea, teachers included.
> 
> Only ones who do are the administrators who keep repeating the mantra "It's the law, you must follow it." Very 1984ish to say the least.


and it was Ted Kennedy's baby


----------



## Modbert

del said:


> snappy. think of it yourself?



Nope, hired a joke writer..yeah I did think of it myself. 

Ready for the comeback tomorrow night Del?


----------



## Ravi

Did I also here McCain say that "we" would take care of unwanted children? As in outlaw abortion, force women to give birth and the state will pay for their upkeep.


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> and it was Ted Kennedy's baby



Why doi you keep repeating that when it was bi-partisan and you know it?


----------



## CornbreadOracle

Robert_Santurri said:


> I believe it was Ayers? Could be wrong on the topic.
> 
> It was the comments that McCain brought up about what Ayers said in 01, and Obama served on the board with Ayers over ten years ago.
> 
> So I said the comments in 01 don't apply to Obama.
> 
> Republicans really seem to focus on the "Guilt by Association" thing.



So the Ayers thing....

It matters because no matter how old Obama was when Ayers committed his acts of terrorism, the point is that Obama had to know who Ayers was and what Ayers did by the time he grew up *and befriended him*.    Also, and this is no small part, Ayers is unrepentant of what he did.    He remains unrepentant to this day.   Don't think that doesn't matter. 

In other words, McCain happens to be painted with the same broad political brush as David Duke.    But you wouldn't catch McCain hanging out with that extremist nutball.   Why does Obama get a pass on Ayers?

Heck yes, if the guy applying for the job of Commander in Chief has friends and associates who avidly and openly hate America, I have a HUGE problem with that.

And no, I wouldn't vote for McCain if he had ties to David Duke.


----------



## Modbert

Ravi said:


> Did I also here McCain say that "we" would take care of unwanted children? As in outlaw abortion, force women to give birth and the state will pay for their upkeep.



More money coming out of the sky by McCain.

You can't propose freezing of funds and then turn around and propose all this stuff.

I wonder if the American people will see past the BS and zingers and see McCain's plan here for what it is really is.

Are you going to freeze funds Senator or put in all these plans?


----------



## jillian

CornbreadOracle said:


> So the Ayers thing....
> 
> It matters because no matter how old Obama was when Ayers committed his acts of terrorism, the point is that Obama had to know who Ayers was and what Ayers did by the time he grew up *and befriended him*.    Also, and this is no small part, Ayers is unrepentant of what he did.    He remains unrepentant to this day.   Don't think that doesn't matter.
> 
> In other words, McCain happens to be painted with the same broad political brush as David Duke.    But you wouldn't catch McCain hanging out with that extremist nutball.   Why does Obama get a pass on Ayers?
> 
> Heck yes, if the guy applying for the job of Commander in Chief has friends and associates who avidly and openly hate America, I have a HUGE problem with that.
> 
> And no, I wouldn't vote for McCain if he had ties to David Duke.



So you wouldn't vote for Ronald Reagan for having "associations" with Ayers either? As for the "abortion debacle" someone had to point it out to you.


----------



## DiveCon

jillian said:


> Why doi you keep repeating that when it was bi-partisan and you know it?


because he wrote it


----------



## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> So the Ayers thing....
> 
> It matters because no matter how old Obama was when Ayers committed his acts of terrorism, the point is that Obama had to know who Ayers was and what Ayers did by the time he grew up *and befriended him*.    Also, and this is no small part, Ayers is unrepentant of what he did.    He remains unrepentant to this day.   Don't think that doesn't matter.
> 
> In other words, McCain happens to be painted with the same broad political brush as David Duke.    But you wouldn't catch McCain hanging out with that extremist nutball.   Why does Obama get a pass on Ayers?
> 
> Heck yes, if the guy applying for the job of Commander in Chief has friends and associates who avidly and openly hate America, I have a HUGE problem with that.
> 
> And no, I wouldn't vote for McCain if he had ties to David Duke.



Question, why assume that Obama would know what Ayers did?

I believe he did know but why assume? How many Republicans who can't get Ayers name out of their mouth knew about him before this?

I doubt one person did.

Ayers isn't forgiving what he did, Obama has condemned the acts that Ayers has committed.

McCain has hung out with "extremist nutballs" for the record and Obama is not a close friend of Ayers. I like what the independent voter said on MSNBC "McCain is beating a dead horse" on the topic of Ayers.

Comparing David Duke and Bill Ayers though? What's next? Mussolini/Stalin and Ayers?


----------



## jillian

Robert_Santurri said:


> More money coming out of the sky by McCain.
> 
> You can't propose freezing of funds and then turn around and propose all this stuff.
> 
> I wonder if the American people will see past the BS and zingers and see McCain's plan here for what it is really is.
> 
> Are you going to freeze funds Senator or put in all these plans?



Obama won this debate, too. But only by a smidge this time. McCain did better than he's done to date. 

And yes, Crimson, it was the best line of the night.


----------



## jillian

DiveCon said:


> because he wrote it



By himself?

Your nose is growing right now, isn't it?


----------



## Modbert

jillian said:


> Obama won this debate, too. But only by a smidge this time. McCain did better than he's done to date.
> 
> And yes, Crimson, it was the best line of the night.



I thought Obama won this debate as well.

Obama was just focusing on not making any mistakes this time around, he figured being cool and calm was the way to go.

He approached this as he was outfront in this election, which he is.


----------



## jillian

Robert_Santurri said:


> I thought Obama won this debate as well.
> 
> Obama was just focusing on not making any mistakes this time around, he figured being cool and calm was the way to go.
> 
> He approached this as he was outfront in this election, which he is.



Yes. But you could see him doing better once the Ayers stuff came up. He was waiting for it and wasn't as sharp at the beginning, IMO. McCain had the opening. Lost it at the end.


----------



## CornbreadOracle

jillian said:


> So you wouldn't vote for Ronald Reagan for having "associations" with Ayers either? As for the "abortion debacle" someone had to point it out to you.





It depends on how you define "associations".   If those associations were as close as Obama's no, I wouldn't have.

As for the abortion debacle, I notice, once I corrected your presumptions, you let it drop.   There you go.


----------



## Modbert

jillian said:


> Yes. But you could see him doing better once the Ayers stuff came up. He was waiting for it and wasn't as sharp at the beginning, IMO. McCain had the opening. Lost it at the end.



Very true. I thought McCain shot himself in the foot on the abortion issue tonight. That's not going to reflect well with women voters.


----------



## Red Dawn

Fox News Poll:

Who won the debate?

Obama  73%
McCain 27%


----------



## jillian

CornbreadOracle said:


> It depends on how you define "associations".   If those associations were as close as Obama's no, I wouldn't have.
> 
> As for the abortion debacle, I notice, once I corrected your presumptions, you let it drop.   There you go.



Actually, I believe I responded to you last. If I didn't, then it's because I saw no response from you. But if you were right, she wouldn't be making conservatives cringe. (And do I really have to give you a list of conservatives who find her horrifying?)


----------



## Modbert

Red Dawn said:


> Fox News Poll:
> 
> Who won the debate?
> 
> Obama  73%
> McCain 27%


----------



## CornbreadOracle

Robert_Santurri said:


> Question, why assume that Obama would know what Ayers did?
> 
> I believe he did know but why assume? How many Republicans who can't get Ayers name out of their mouth knew about him before this?
> 
> I doubt one person did.
> 
> Ayers isn't forgiving what he did, Obama has condemned the acts that Ayers has committed.
> 
> McCain has hung out with "extremist nutballs" for the record and Obama is not a close friend of Ayers. I like what the independent voter said on MSNBC "McCain is beating a dead horse" on the topic of Ayers.
> 
> Comparing David Duke and Bill Ayers though? What's next? Mussolini/Stalin and Ayers?




If you can name one extremist nut with whom McCain has such close ties as serving on a board with him, writing a blurb for his book, donating money to his campaign and McCain starting his political career in the guy's living room....I'd like to know it.

Yes, I'm sure in his long political career McCain has had some type of association with at least one total extremist nut job.  But none of them were his close supporters and advisors -- at least none of them who *were at war with the United States*


----------



## I Missthe North

McCain's only chance is to attack, attack, attack.  Get ready for the mud slinging to kick into high gear from the Republican's side.  Obama has him just where he wants him.  In a deep hole clawing his way out with insults.  Hopefully the American people will be sick of that kind of campaigning, but I guess we will found out in less then three weeks.


----------



## DavidS

Red Dawn said:


> Fox News Poll:
> 
> Who won the debate?
> 
> Obama  73%
> McCain 27%



Oversampling of Democrats.


----------



## Modbert

CornbreadOracle said:


> If you can name one extremist nut with whom McCain has such close ties as serving on a board with him, writing a blurb for his book, donating money to his campaign and McCain starting his political career in the guy's living room....I'd like to know it.
> 
> Yes, I'm sure in his long political career McCain has had some type of association with at least one total extremist nut job.  But none of them were his close supporters and advisors -- at least none of them who *were at war with the United States*



Here's what I think:

1.) You make it as specific as possible for Ayers situation, you know McCain has not had anything related to this.

2.) You go against what you say in the 1st paragraph in the 2nd. You make a excuse for it by saying "in his long political career". Yes he's had some who were close supporters, advisors, and friends.

3.) Your last comment, once again your changing the rules as you go along to try and make your point seem better.

Not surprising though.


----------



## Red Dawn

Just released. 

CBS Poll of uncommitted voters

Who won the debate?

Obama  53%

McCain 22%


----------



## Modbert

So much about Joe the Plumber.

How about Mike the Plumber?


----------



## jillian

Pretty substantial win for Obama according to the numbers... Better than I thought it would be so far.

All the networks have Obama winning. Seems the reaction shots hurt McCain more than I thought.


----------



## Red Dawn

Obama is calm, deliberative, collected.  Just a cool cat.  Nothing rattles him.  That shit sells.  That looks presidential.   

McCain looks trollish, erratic, and angry. 


This election is over.


----------



## Modbert

jillian said:


> Pretty substantial win for Obama according to the numbers... Better than I thought it would be so far.
> 
> All the networks have Obama winning. Seems the reaction shots hurt McCain more than I thought.



He didn't help by saying that Obama had Ayers, ACORN coming because he wouldn't go to the town halls with McCain.


----------



## I Missthe North

CornbreadOracle said:


> If you can name one extremist nut with whom McCain has such close ties as serving on a board with him, writing a blurb for his book, donating money to his campaign and McCain starting his political career in the guy's living room....I'd like to know it.
> 
> Yes, I'm sure in his long political career McCain has had some type of association with at least one total extremist nut job.  But none of them were his close supporters and advisors -- at least none of them who *were at war with the United States*



It is time to move on my friend.  This issue is dead.  The more you bring it up, the more people will continue to prove that you do not know what your talking about.  You are getting no where.  It it pretty obvious the American public can see through the Republican smoke screen to see that this is a non-issue.  When are you going to realize?


----------



## Modbert

Red Dawn said:


> Obama is calm, deliberative, collected.  Just a cool cat.  Nothing rattles him.  That shit sells.  That looks presidential.
> 
> McCain looks trollish, erratic, and angry.
> 
> 
> This election is over.







No matter what, McCain can't get away from Bush:



And this I just found plain funny on the whole fear tactics by McCain:


----------



## dilloduck

I Missthe North said:


> It is time to move on my friend.  This issue is dead.  The more you bring it up, the more people will continue to prove that you do not know what your talking about.  You are getting no where.  It it pretty obvious the American public can see through the Republican smoke screen to see that this is a non-issue.  When are you going to realize?



Can't come up with one huh?


----------



## Red Dawn

Robert_Santurri said:


> View attachment 6100
> 
> 
> No matter what, McCain can't get away from Bush:
> 
> snip



LOL 

I read there's a republican candidate in *nebraska* that's trying to tie himself to Obama's coat tails. 

That's how bad the republican brand name has tanked.    Thanks Bush!


----------



## Red Dawn

I Missthe North said:


> It is time to move on my friend.  This issue is dead.  The more you bring it up, the more people will continue to prove that you do not know what your talking about.  You are getting no where.  It it pretty obvious the American public can see through the Republican smoke screen to see that this is a non-issue.  When are you going to realize?



Nobody gives a shit about Ayers or Acorn, except two time bush voters who are voting for mccain anyway.


----------



## Modbert

Red Dawn said:


> LOL
> 
> I read there's a republican candidate in *nebraska* that's trying to tie himself to Obama's coat tails.
> 
> That's how bad the republican brand name has tanked.    Thanks Bush!



Oregon Republican Tries To Hitch A Ride On Obama's Coattails

RealClearPolitics - Articles - GOP Stunned By Loss in Mississippi

Even GOPers are Hoping To Ride Obama's Coattails - BusinessWeek

I think you mean this one?


----------



## chloe

I think McCain did his best debate tonight, I dont think he changed anyones mind, I think Obama will still win the election. But I do think this was the only debate McCain really seemed like himself. Also on the Ayers issue, 

The matter was initially raised by Hillary Rodham Clinton in February 2008 after it had been suggested by Sean Hannity and other hosts on conservative talk radio programs. 

Bill Ayers and Barack Obama at one time lived in the same neighborhood in the city of Chicago, and both had worked on education reform in the state of Illinois. The two met "at a luncheon meeting about school reform." Obama was named to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge Project Board of Directors to oversee the distribution of grants in Chicago. Later in 1995, Ayers hosted "a coffee" for "Mr. Obama's first run for office."
 The two served on the board of a community anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 2000 and 2002, during which time the board met twelve times.

 In April 2001, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate.  

Chicago Magazine reported that "just before the September 11th attacks," Richard Elrod, a city lawyer injured in the Weathermen's Chicago "Days of Rage," received an apology from Ayers and Dohrn for their part in the violence.


----------



## DiveCon

Red Dawn said:


> Fox News Poll:
> 
> Who won the debate?
> 
> Obama  73%
> McCain 27%


figures you guys are likely spamming the hell out of it


----------



## Red Dawn

CNN Insta Poll.

Obama wins debate 58% to 31%


----------



## newpolitics

I thought it was an awesome debate, period.  Great questions.  Good discussion.  Moderated VERY well, especially in comparison to the last two debates.  

Obama was fantastic. I was not very pleased with McCain.  I don't want someone so angry, so unable to check their emotions, at the helm of this nation, and that was how McCain looked to me tonight, and for the last three debates.  What would he be like when during meetings with important people who disagree with him?  Is he just going to get mad?  When meeting with leaders of foreign nations?


----------



## dilloduck

newpolitics said:


> I thought it was an awesome debate, period.  Great questions.  Good discussion.  Moderated VERY well, especially in comparison to the last two debates.
> 
> Obama was fantastic. I was not very pleased with McCain.  How can you want someone so angry, so unable to check their emotions, at the helm of this nation?



I'd be pissed to if I had to stand up there with Obama. ( and wear a tie ).


----------



## Red Dawn

more from CNN's instapoll":

Obama's favorable ratings went up after the debate. 

McCain favorability went _down_ after the debate. 

How does a political candidate get 90 minutes of FREE television and have their favorability ratings go DOWN?  That's the kind of shit that gets campaign managers and political consultants fired.


----------



## Modbert

DiveCon said:


> figures you guys are likely spamming the hell out of it



Jeez Dive, why don't you admit the only polls you accept are the ones in the REPUBLICAN favor.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> Never said he can't be proud of his service. But it'd be nice to hear about his other accomplishments other then the military which he never ceases to bring up or never ceases to be brought up by others around him.



He brings it up along with his Congressional and Senate Career. That is everything he has done since graduating high school. He was a career Naval Aviator. 20 years in, that was a big part of his service. The problem is that you stop listening when he brings it up.


----------



## Chris

newpolitics said:


> I thought it was an awesome debate, period.  Great questions.  Good discussion.  Moderated VERY well, especially in comparison to the last two debates.
> 
> Obama was fantastic. I was not very pleased with McCain.  I don't want someone so angry, so unable to check their emotions, at the helm of this nation, and that was how McCain looked to me tonight, and for the last three debates.  What would he be like when during meetings with important people who disagree with him?  Is he just going to get mad?  When meeting with leaders of foreign nations?




During the first debate my girlfriend turned to me and said, "This debate is about foreign policy, right?"

And I said, "Yes."

And she said, "How can a person be good at foreign relations, when they can't even look at the person they are debating with?"

Bless her.


----------



## Modbert

CrimsonWhite said:


> He brings it up along with his Congressional and Senate Career. That is everything he has done since graduating high school. He was a career Naval Aviator. 20 years in, that was a big part of his service. The problem is that you stop listening when he brings it up.



I've listened, I know all about McCain's service as a POW. I've also personally looked it up on the internet to know more about it. He served our country honorably and he has my respect for that.

However, being a POW and serving honorably in the Military = No Automatic vote of mine or means you should win.


----------



## sealybobo

CornbreadOracle said:


> If you can name one extremist nut with whom McCain has such close ties as serving on a board with him, writing a blurb for his book, donating money to his campaign and McCain starting his political career in the guy's living room....I'd like to know it.
> 
> Yes, I'm sure in his long political career McCain has had some type of association with at least one total extremist nut job.  But none of them were his close supporters and advisors -- at least none of them who *were at war with the United States*



Dude, his vp is that person.  Just this year sarah made a well wishes tape to the alaskan independence party.  The leader said sarah should run as a republican, but just by name.  The fact is, she and they want alaska to suceed from america.  Todd Palin was a member for almost 10 yrs.  The founder said, hellfire is like a glacer compared to the hate he has for america.  They feel america treds on their property rights.  And he said he would never be buried with an american flag.  bla bla.  

But Mccain actually picked a running mate that is a part of an anti american group.  We would be fools to elect her.  

It is amazing that mccain picked her.


----------



## CrimsonWhite

Robert_Santurri said:


> I've listened, I know all about McCain's service as a POW. I've also personally looked it up on the internet to know more about it. He served our country honorably and he has my respect for that.
> 
> However, being a POW and serving honorably in the Military = No Automatic vote of mine or means you should win.



Nobody is saying that it should. But it is a valid part of his resume and should reserve the right to bring it up.


----------



## dilloduck

Chris said:


> During the first debate my girlfriend turned to me and said, "This debate is about foreign policy, right?"
> 
> And I said, "Yes."
> 
> And she said, "How can a person be good at foreign relations, when they can't even look at the person they are debating with?"
> 
> Bless her.



You can call them on your cell or even have the Secretary of State do it.


----------



## chloe

Im sure McCain can handle meeting foriegn leaders and meetings on Presidential Concerns. McCain, he was a tortured prisoner of war for 6 years, He has worked in US House of Representatives, and the US Senate for over 20 years so Im sure he knows how to handle himself. I think Obamas strength is his public image and his flawless speeches. Obama is an activist for social reform, he is for the people and there is nothing wrong with that. But I really do think tonight was McCains best debate, not to be mistaken with McCain is better then Obama. But McCain is not by any means a weak willed person either who cant handle the responsibility.


----------



## DiveCon

Robert_Santurri said:


> Jeez Dive, why don't you admit the only polls you accept are the ones in the REPUBLICAN favor.


i dont trust ANY poll
except for the one on Nov 2nd


----------



## Red Dawn

Some more numbers from the CNN insta poll were just read on TV. 

Obama was seen as stating his ideas more clearly by 66%-25%, was seen as the stronger leader by 56%-39%, and was more likable by 70%-22%. 

McCain did win in one category: He's the candidate who launched more attacks on his opponent, by a whopping 80%-7%.


----------



## JennyFever

Here's the only poll number that matters, CNN poll of who independents think won the debate:
Obama 57%
McCain 31%

*To clarify, I mean what the independents think is important, not the fact that CNN conducted the poll.

MC came out strong, but in my opinion O took the debate.  McCain was negative and emotional while Obama stayed positive and cool.  I think he owned Mc on health care and spoke really well on education.

Am I the only one who heard Mc suggest we put unqualified teachers in the classroom?  That is insane...also against one of the major pillars of NCLB, the highly qualified teacher.

I also noticed what someone else mentioned about Mc confusing autism with Down Syndrome.  I taught special ed for 4 years, and have worked with the special needs community for 6, and it seemed to me like he didn't know what he was talking about.  I think it will come off as disingenuous to the special needs community to lump the disabilities together when they are so vastly different.


----------



## kane3o1

Obama= Undefeated (3-0)


----------



## Red Dawn

Obama Wins Fox News Focus Group


*GOP pollster Frank Luntz: A good night for Obama*

Focus Group of undecided independent voters conducted by Frank Luntz for Fox News:

    Luntz: "none had made a decision to support Sen. Obama before the debate, but more than half supported after the debate. It was a good night for Barack Obama."


----------



## del

Robert_Santurri said:


> Senator McCain, even schools that have never failed before are failing under No Child Left Behind because of the horrible policy that it is.
> 
> The worst school systems in America DON'T get the most money per student. Least that's not how it works here in Rhode Island.



obviously. 

take it up with ted kennedy and get back to me

The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (Public Law 107-110), often abbreviated in print as NCLB and sometimes shortened in pronunciation to "nickelbee"[1], is a controversial United States federal law (Act of Congress) *(co-Authored by Democratic Rep. George Miller of California and Democratic U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts) *that reauthorized a number of federal programs aiming to improve the performance of U.S. primary and secondary schools by increasing the standards of accountability for states, school districts, and schools, as well as providing parents more flexibility in choosing which schools their children will attend. Additionally, it promoted an increased focus on reading and re-authorized the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 (ESEA). The Act, introduced as HR 1 during the 107th Congress, [2] was passed in the House of Representatives on May 23, 2001[3], United States Senate on June 14, 2001[4] and signed into law on January 8, 2002

No Child Left Behind Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## del

Robert_Santurri said:


> I'm telling you that Rhode Island across the board in Math, Reading, and Science have some pretty bad numbers and the whole state is broke education wise.
> 
> Why? Under-funded.



yeah, more money will fix everything


----------



## Modbert

del said:


> yeah, more money will fix everything



Did I ever say that? No

No need to put words in my mouth. I don't think any problem in life can be solved by just throwing money at all.


----------



## elvis

Red Dawn said:


> more from CNN's instapoll":
> 
> Obama's favorable ratings went up after the debate.
> 
> McCain favorability went _down_ after the debate.
> 
> How does a political candidate get 90 minutes of FREE television and have their favorability ratings go DOWN?  That's the kind of shit that gets campaign managers and political consultants fired.



Not scientific.  Means nothing.


----------



## del

jillian said:


> Actually, it was bi-partisan. And then the repub congress wouldn't vote the money for it. You do remember you all held the purse strings then, right?
> 
> Besides, I always knew No child left behind sucked... but that's because I have a son who's school was affected by it.



actually it was written by two democrats.


----------



## elvis

JennyFever said:


> Here's the only poll number that matters, CNN poll of who independents think won the debate:
> Obama 57%
> McCain 31%
> 
> *To clarify, I mean what the independents think is important, not the fact that CNN conducted the poll.
> 
> MC came out strong, but in my opinion O took the debate.  McCain was negative and emotional while Obama stayed positive and cool.  I think he owned Mc on health care and spoke really well on education.
> 
> Am I the only one who heard Mc suggest we put unqualified teachers in the classroom?  That is insane...also against one of the major pillars of NCLB, the highly qualified teacher.
> 
> I also noticed what someone else mentioned about Mc confusing autism with Down Syndrome.  I taught special ed for 4 years, and have worked with the special needs community for 6, and it seemed to me like he didn't know what he was talking about.  I think it will come off as disingenuous to the special needs community to lump the disabilities together when they are so vastly different.



Not scientific. Means nothing.


----------



## Red Dawn

kane3o1 said:


> Obama= Undefeated (3-0)



Don't forgot the drubbing Biden gave poor Sarah. 

Dem 4-0. 

Poor Sarah has had to go into hiding, and only shows up on rightwing talk radio ever since.


----------



## DavidS

ummm.... anyone know how to make this into a halloween mask?


----------



## elvis

DavidS said:


> ummm.... anyone know how to make this into a halloween mask?



Of course. right next to Reagan, Nixon, W and clinton.


----------



## del

jillian said:


> No. Obama won't support vouchers because they suck money from public schools and siphon funds into parochial schools.... same reason most of us who oppose vouchers do.



please, you think the NEA gives up their endorsement for free?


----------



## DavidS

DiveCon said:


> i dont trust ANY poll
> except for the one on Nov 2nd



That's nice.

What about the ones on November 4th?


----------



## DiveCon

DavidS said:


> That's nice.
> 
> What about the ones on November 4th?


oops
you got me
i got the date wrong


----------



## elvis

DiveCon said:


> oops
> you got me
> i got the date wrong



The actual polls on the day of the election are not always accurate.


----------



## DiveCon

del said:


> actually it was written by two democrats.


dont confuse Jillian with facts


----------



## DiveCon

elvis3577 said:


> The actual polls on the day of the election are not always accurate.


by "polls" i was refering to the actual election


----------



## del

jillian said:


> By himself?
> 
> Your nose is growing right now, isn't it?



The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (Public Law 107-110), often abbreviated in print as NCLB and sometimes shortened in pronunciation to "nickelbee"[1], is a controversial United States federal law (Act of Congress) (co-Authored by Democratic Rep. George Miller of California and Democratic U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts) 

ted hasn't been able to tie his shoes by himself for 20 years, so you've got a point i suppose. still, not seeing much bipartisan authorship here.


No Child Left Behind Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## elvis

DiveCon said:


> by "polls" i was refering to the actual election



ahh.


----------



## greenpartyaz

John McCain looked like he was on the verge of blowing his temper, in one of his famous eruptions. I think Obama won this debate. John McCain realizes that his campaign is unraveling faster than a set of Firestones. This is McCain's last chance! And he blew it. He blew it when he picked Sarah Palin as his VP.


----------



## greenpartyaz

DavidS said:


> ummm.... anyone know how to make this into a halloween mask?



Ask Regan, he wore it everyday!


----------



## del

Robert_Santurri said:


> Did I ever say that? No
> 
> No need to put words in my mouth. I don't think any problem in life can be solved by just throwing money at all.



that's  exactly what you said. jesus, mary and arthur, how fucking disingenuous are you? you want to throw this shit out, you need to back it up.




Robert_Santurri said:


> I'm telling you that Rhode Island across the board in Math, Reading, and Science have some pretty bad numbers and the whole state is broke education wise.
> 
> Why? Under-funded.



i'm guessing the language arts numbers aren't through the roof, either.


----------



## Care4all

DiveCon said:


> and it was Ted Kennedy's baby


 And President Bush's....kennedy spent time in the whitehouse, coming to compromises on the Bill....

I don't think many republicans in congress were thrilled over it, but maybe a handful, they voted for it none the less because President Bush asked them to and many of them were all lock step with Bush on most all....even if they differed with him, they all seemed to want to show him their support, on whatever he wanted....if memory serves me.


----------



## DiveCon

Care4all said:


> And President Bush's....kennedy spent time in the whitehouse, coming to compromises on the Bill....
> 
> I don't think many republicans in congress were thrilled over it, but maybe a handful, they voted for it none the less because President Bush asked them to and many of them were all lock step with Bush on most all....even if they differed with him, they all seemed to want to show him their support, on whatever he wanted....if memory serves me.


Bush let Kennedy do the whole thing
it was one of the many things Bush did that pissed conservatives off


----------



## Care4all

DiveCon said:


> Bush let Kennedy do the whole thing
> it was one of the many things Bush did that pissed conservatives off



It was President Bush's INITIATIVE....maybe he did let ted kennedy write the whole thing, that i can't prove one way or the other...I do know while it was being writen and negotiated, Kennedy spent a great deal of time at the Whitehouse...

There is more of a connection between the kennedys and the Bush's than one would think.....

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-05-15-bush-kennedy-immigration_N.htm



> WASHINGTON &#8212; As he presses for legacy-building immigration legislation, President Bush finds himself aligned *with the same unlikely ally who helped enact his first major domestic initiative.  *
> 
> That would be Sen. Edward Kennedy, the Massachusetts Democrat who played a crucial role in crafting and passing the No Child Left Behind Act, *the president's massive effort to overhaul education policy*.



yeah, you're right...last part says kennedy crafted president bush's initiative...so he did write it...but i still maintain Bush had input...and remember kennedy having to meet bush regarding it....


----------



## DiveCon

Care4all said:


> It was President Bush's INITIATIVE....maybe he did let ted kennedy write the whole thing, that i can't prove one way or the other...I do know while it was being writen and negotiated, Kennedy spent a great deal of time at the Whitehouse...
> 
> There is more of a connection between the kennedys and the Bush's than one would think.....
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-05-15-bush-kennedy-immigration_N.htm
> 
> 
> 
> yeah, you're right...last part says kennedy crafted president bush's initiative...so he did write it...but i still maintain Bush had input...and remember kennedy having to meet bush regarding it....


thank you for proving me right


----------



## jillian

del said:


> The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (Public Law 107-110), often abbreviated in print as NCLB and sometimes shortened in pronunciation to "nickelbee"[1], is a controversial United States federal law (Act of Congress) (co-Authored by Democratic Rep. George Miller of California and Democratic U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts)
> 
> ted hasn't been able to tie his shoes by himself for 20 years, so you've got a point i suppose. still, not seeing much bipartisan authorship here.
> 
> 
> No Child Left Behind Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Did you see who the sponsors were? Bush always touted it as a BIPARTISAN effort and then the repubs wouldn't fund it.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)


----------



## sealybobo

So now not only is the economy the dems fault but now no child left behind is too?

And everything bush did wrong for the past 8 yrs is because he was reaching across the isle?

Republicans should have spoke up before the 04 election, but they didn't.

And maybe we should give the gop 8 yrs of complete control since 6 wasn't enough. 

What a joke.


----------



## del

jillian said:


> Did you see who the sponsors were? Bush always touted it as a BIPARTISAN effort and then the repubs wouldn't fund it.
> 
> Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)



sponsors don't author legislation, good effort, though


----------



## Ravi

I didn't realize Teddy was running for president.


----------



## Otter_Creek

Good Morning! Instead of reading all twenty pages of debate opinions, let me take a guess.
The dims think Obama won, and the pubs think McCain won.
Am I close?


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> I didn't realize Teddy was running for president.



yeah, he's running against bush, too


----------



## Ravi

del said:


> yeah, he's running against bush, too


Too bad McCain isn't.


----------



## del

Ravi said:


> Too bad McCain isn't.



oh, i think teddy and obama are enough to keep george busy.


----------



## DiamondDave

sealybobo said:


> So now not only is the economy the dems fault but now no child left behind is too?
> 
> And everything bush did wrong for the past 8 yrs is because he was reaching across the isle?
> 
> Republicans should have spoke up before the 04 election, but they didn't.
> 
> And maybe we should give the gop 8 yrs of complete control since 6 wasn't enough.
> 
> What a joke.



No.. I personally put the situation of No Child Left Behind on Bush and his administration... it's his baby... had some good thoughts behind it, but it's application has left a lot to be desired... a good step to learn from though.... it was a step in the right direction that exposed a lot of flaws that need to be corrected..

And many things that Bush has done wrong has not been just because of reaching across the aisle, but reaching across the aisle on the wrong things... there is a time and place for compromise on some issues.. I think he has poorly chosen the times to do so


----------



## sealybobo

DiamondDave said:


> No.. I personally put the situation of No Child Left Behind on Bush and his administration... it's his baby... had some good thoughts behind it, but it's application has left a lot to be desired... a good step to learn from though.... it was a step in the right direction that exposed a lot of flaws that need to be corrected..
> 
> And many things that Bush has done wrong has not been just because of reaching across the aisle, but reaching across the aisle on the wrong things... there is a time and place for compromise on some issues.. I think he has poorly chosen the times to do so



He didn't fund No Child Left Behind.  That was the fatal flaw.  And McCain wants a spending freeze across the board too.  How's he going to help autistic children and at the same time cut funding for it?


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## LostInOhio

FIRST TIME POSTING!
Quick background: I'm an independent, I consider both candidates competent (plus many 3rd party candidates), but Palin is the reason i absolutely will NOT vote for McCain.

Anyway,
Why didn't anyone ask McCain if his spending freeze included Military spending?
Across the board is EVERYTHING, right?
I would have liked to see how hard he would have back tracked on that one.


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## DiamondDave

sealybobo said:


> He didn't fund No Child Left Behind.  That was the fatal flaw.  And McCain wants a spending freeze across the board too.  How's he going to help autistic children and at the same time cut funding for it?



Funding was a problem, but so is much of the way it is implemented... there is no doubt behind that... but it was indeed something that I believe was a step in the right direction, but also something to learn from and improve


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## Silence

LostInOhio said:


> FIRST TIME POSTING!
> Quick background: I'm an independent, I consider both candidates competent (plus many 3rd party candidates), but Palin is the reason i absolutely will NOT vote for McCain.
> 
> Anyway,
> Why didn't anyone ask McCain if his spending freeze included Military spending?
> Across the board is EVERYTHING, right?
> I would have liked to see how hard he would have back tracked on that one.



First welcome to the board

Second, McCain has already said his spending freeeze would not include military, he said it in the last debate.  

Otter, you're dead on...although I think I saw a few repubs who thought Obama won....

This was the best debate of the there IMO.  They actually got into the issues and took each other on directly.  

Obama looked calm and confident and gave decent answers although I wish he'd dig a lil deeper on the specifics.  

I liked his answers on abortion, health care and education.

McCain looked angry and bitter IMO.  I could hear what sounded like grunting and groaning as Obama spoke.  The visuals of his eye rolling also disturbed me.  His correcting Bob on the control v. climate thing also reeked of nastiness.  Why go out of your way to make someone look stupid?  everyone knew what Bob meant.

I thought he gave good answers on energy.  But his drill now stance doesn't reflect the reality that even if they drilled today we wouldn't see results for at least 10-15 years.  He acts like they can just tape the well and he'll hit crude like he's Jeb Clampet or something.  

The worst moment for McCain IMO was when he put the air quotes around the mother's "health" issue regarding abortion.    

The whole "joe the plumber" thing got tired after the first few times.  

I thought Obama answered the Ayers question perfectly.  I do wish he had addressed using the ACORN subsidiary for voter reigstration but the truth is not many Americans give a crap out that so it didn't hurt him IMO.  

I'd say Obama won on style and substance.  He just "looks" like the President.  McCain looks like my grumpy old neighbor who is always yelling to not let my dog shit on his lawn, even though I have a fenced in yard and my dog never goes on his yard.


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## LostInOhio

Sorry about missing the "no military spending freeze from last debate".

I'm a bit peeved at both for dodging the "what would you cut in this time of crisis" question. They answered it by justifying their planned spending. Neither has an intention of cutting anything.


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## Ravi

McCain has said he plans to cut Medicare. I found it amusing he didn't mention that last night.


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## sealybobo

LostInOhio said:


> FIRST TIME POSTING!
> Quick background: I'm an independent, I consider both candidates competent (plus many 3rd party candidates), but Palin is the reason i absolutely will NOT vote for McCain.
> 
> Anyway,
> Why didn't anyone ask McCain if his spending freeze included Military spending?
> Across the board is EVERYTHING, right?
> I would have liked to see how hard he would have back tracked on that one.



No doubt!  But at least Obama got him on funding Autism.  Can't fund it if you freeze all spending.

I wish Obama would have brought up the Alaska Independence Party so the next day all the media would have investigated it.  They need to give it some attention.  At least as much as Ayers and Wright got.

CNN tried to cover it but then they were contacted by the McCain camp:

CNN was unable to get anyone from the McCain campaign to appear during the segment, but did obtain a statement from a spokesperson. "CNN is furthering a smear with this report, no different than if your network ran a piece questioning Senator Obama's religion. No serious news organization has tried to make this connection, and it is unfortunate that CNN would be the the first."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Reporter_Palin_tied_to_ideology_that_1015.html


Being muslim should not matter.  But being a member of this radical party, or your husband being a member, certainly does.  

And so fine.  Is Obama a Muslim?  No.  Is Todd Palin a member of AIP?  Yes.  Does the party want to suceed from the USA?  Did the founding father say he hated the USA?  Yes.  Well then that's kind of important.  Don't you think?


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