# UN-Privatize Baseball Now. PLEEEASE!!



## protectionist

Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years. I ceased to be a major league baseball fan. I started out as a kid rooting for the New York Yankees in the 1950s. After I moved to California in the late 70s, I became an Oakland As fan, and in the late 90s, I became a Tampa Bay Rays fan. But yesterday the private owners of the Rays caused me to drop the game of baseball from my life entirely, when they cut loose the Rays star pitcher, David Price, and his big salary, to Detroit, and pretended it was a trade. They got really nothing in return. In fact the 2 active players they got are more likely to hurt the Rays than help them.

The bottom line of this is that these guys (owners) are wrecking the game of baseball, that we fans have known and love and followed all our lives. And why ? Simple. Because to them, it isn't a game of baseball. It's a stock market. It's a profit and loss statement. A balance sheet, etc. These guys couldn't care less what happens to the team. They are looking at this from a MONEY perspective, period.

Older fans like myself remember the days back when it wasn't anything like this. There was no free agency for the players. Some of the greatest players ever to perform on a field (Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, etc.) played for one team only for 20 years. Teams were not revolving doors, where each year, fans wonder who their teams' players are.

In the case of the Rays, they are in a significant year. On June 10th, the team was 18 games under .500. Now they are right up in contention once again , and have the best record in baseball since June. Things are going great, and the fans are excited. And what happens ? Mr. Moneybags steps in and starts dismantling the foundations of the team (just to save money). 

OK. He is a capitalist trying to make a profit. But the baseball team is much more than just his PROPERTY. It is a cultural entity in the area. The Rays are an institution in the Tampa bay area, and I'm sure it's the same with other teams in other places. What New York baseball fan my age will ever forget when the Giants and Dodgers left New York and went to the west coast ?.....leaving millions of fans heartbroken.

It is time to get baseball out of the hands of the moneychangers, and into the hands of the FANS, who care about baseball and its welfare. For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee, and that the Rays play 1/3 of their home games in each of those counties. It is critical to get baseball out of the hands of these dollar sharks, who probably don't know a curve ball, from a balk, from a sacrifice fly, ans are wrecking the game of professional baseball.


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## WinterBorn

Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.  

Then it will belong to the fans.  Until then......


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## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.
> 
> Then it will belong to the fans.  Until then......



I have started to do just that, by calling my County commisioners, and suggesting that 3 countys together buy the team.  Hopefully they'll know how to get the fans going on this, but it really is up to the county guys.  And this has already been done in MLB.  Cleveland I think it was.


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## TheOldSchool

Dude don't kid yourself the Rays weren't about to do anything this year or next year.  David Price is expensive and the Rays can use that money for other needs now.  They didn't get much in return but if he left for free agency after next season they wouldn't have gotten anything at all.


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## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.
> 
> Then it will belong to the fans.  Until then......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have started to do just that, by calling my County commisioners, and suggesting that 3 countys together buy the team.  Hopefully they'll know how to get the fans going on this, but it really is up to the county guys.  And this has already been done in MLB.  Cleveland I think it was.
Click to expand...


According to Forbes, the Tampa Bay Rays are worth $485 million.   Split between 3 counties that comes to just under $162 million per county.

You think they will spend that much money for the fans?


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## protectionist

TheOldSchool said:


> Dude don't kid yourself the Rays weren't about to do anything this year or next year.  David Price is expensive and the Rays can use that money for other needs now.  They didn't get much in return but if he left for free agency after next season they wouldn't have gotten anything at all.



All of that is the middle lines of the issue.  The bottom line is that baseball needs to be baseball, not some kind of a stock market, with money manipulators making a mess out of the game.


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## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.
> 
> Then it will belong to the fans.  Until then......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have started to do just that, by calling my County commisioners, and suggesting that 3 countys together buy the team.  Hopefully they'll know how to get the fans going on this, but it really is up to the county guys.  And this has already been done in MLB.  Cleveland I think it was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to Forbes, the Tampa Bay Rays are worth $485 million.   Split between 3 counties that comes to just under $162 million per county.
> 
> You think they will spend that much money for the fans?
Click to expand...


If/whenever they profit from ticket sales, TV $$$, et al, they won't be spending, they'll be receiving.  You only mentioned the money out.  There's also the money coming IN.
Did Forbes say anything about that ?

Also, if MLB (and other pro sports preferably), was deprivatized, the $485 million figure goes right down the drain.  All the idiocy that has been ruling the roost will disappear.  Players salaries will shrink to maybe $300K/year tops, ticket prices will go down, sales will soar, stadiums will be built in upper economic communities, not alongside large black ghettos, and old, poor retirement communities like Tropicana Field was ludicriously done.  What exists now is not the yardstick.  That yardstick will be in the trash can, and a whole new scenario will exist.  Forbes only talks about the old.  I'm talking about the new.  And in that "new", "worth" will be how fans are able to go to games and love it, not measured in $$$.


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## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have started to do just that, by calling my County commisioners, and suggesting that 3 countys together buy the team.  Hopefully they'll know how to get the fans going on this, but it really is up to the county guys.  And this has already been done in MLB.  Cleveland I think it was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Forbes, the Tampa Bay Rays are worth $485 million.   Split between 3 counties that comes to just under $162 million per county.
> 
> You think they will spend that much money for the fans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If/whenever they profit from ticket sales, TV $$$, et al, they won't be spending, they'll be receiving.  You only mentioned the money out.  There's also the money coming IN.
> Did Forbes say anything about that ?
Click to expand...


If it such a profitable endeavor, why do you assume the owners would be willing to sell?


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## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have started to do just that, by calling my County commisioners, and suggesting that 3 countys together buy the team.  Hopefully they'll know how to get the fans going on this, but it really is up to the county guys.  And this has already been done in MLB.  Cleveland I think it was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> According to Forbes, the Tampa Bay Rays are worth $485 million.   Split between 3 counties that comes to just under $162 million per county.
> 
> You think they will spend that much money for the fans?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If/whenever they profit from ticket sales, TV $$$, et al, they won't be spending, they'll be receiving.  You only mentioned the money out.  There's also the money coming IN.
> Did Forbes say anything about that ?
> 
> Also, if MLB (and other pro sports preferably), was deprivatized, the $485 million figure goes right down the drain.  All the idiocy that has been ruling the roost will disappear.  Players salaries will shrink to maybe $300K/year tops, ticket prices will go down, sales will soar, stadiums will be built in upper economic communities, not alongside large black ghettos, and old, poor retirement communities like Tropicana Field was ludicriously done.  What exists now is not the yardstick.  That yardstick will be in the trash can, and a whole new scenario will exist.  Forbes only talks about the old.  I'm talking about the new.  And in that "new", "worth" will be how fans are able to go to games and love it, not measured in $$$.
Click to expand...


The money in baseball is not strictly from fans attending games.  The TV rights pay as much, if not more, than the tickets do.

You suggest taking the players salaries down to $300k a year as the top end?  Since the current players have contracts that legally require payment, you will have to weed them out over time.  And, over time, the best players will either take up another sport or go somewhere else to play.


And I am still curious why you think the owners of the teams will be willing to sell.


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## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Forbes, the Tampa Bay Rays are worth $485 million.   Split between 3 counties that comes to just under $162 million per county.
> 
> You think they will spend that much money for the fans?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If/whenever they profit from ticket sales, TV $$$, et al, they won't be spending, they'll be receiving.  You only mentioned the money out.  There's also the money coming IN.
> Did Forbes say anything about that ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If it such a profitable endeavor, why do you assume the owners would be willing to sell?
Click to expand...


I see it as profitable AFTER they let loose of it.


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## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> If/whenever they profit from ticket sales, TV $$$, et al, they won't be spending, they'll be receiving.  You only mentioned the money out.  There's also the money coming IN.
> Did Forbes say anything about that ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it such a profitable endeavor, why do you assume the owners would be willing to sell?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see it as profitable AFTER they let loose of it.
Click to expand...


I see them not wanting to sell.  They have invested a lot of money, time and effort into it.

You might be able to buy a few minor league teams, and maybe one or two major league teams, but that is it.  And if your salary limit is $300k per player, then few players will be coming your way.

And there are 10 MLB teams that are supposedly worth at least $1 billion.


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## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> According to Forbes, the Tampa Bay Rays are worth $485 million.   Split between 3 counties that comes to just under $162 million per county.
> 
> You think they will spend that much money for the fans?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If/whenever they profit from ticket sales, TV $$$, et al, they won't be spending, they'll be receiving.  You only mentioned the money out.  There's also the money coming IN.
> Did Forbes say anything about that ?
> 
> Also, if MLB (and other pro sports preferably), was deprivatized, the $485 million figure goes right down the drain.  All the idiocy that has been ruling the roost will disappear.  Players salaries will shrink to maybe $300K/year tops, ticket prices will go down, sales will soar, stadiums will be built in upper economic communities, not alongside large black ghettos, and old, poor retirement communities like Tropicana Field was ludicriously done.  What exists now is not the yardstick.  That yardstick will be in the trash can, and a whole new scenario will exist.  Forbes only talks about the old.  I'm talking about the new.  And in that "new", "worth" will be how fans are able to go to games and love it, not measured in $$$.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The money in baseball is not strictly from fans attending games.  The TV rights pay as much, if not more, than the tickets do.
> 
> You suggest taking the players salaries down to $300k a year as the top end?  Since the current players have contracts that legally require payment, you will have to weed them out over time.  And, over time, the best players will either take up another sport or go somewhere else to play.
> 
> And I am still curious why you think the owners of the teams will be willing to sell.
Click to expand...


1. I already mentioned TV $$.  

2  So the players get weeded.  Whatever. 

3.  I already mentioned _"(and other pro sports preferably)"_, so the players wouldn't have that option.  In addition, just because a guy can play one sport, that doesn't mean he can play another.  Remember when Michael Jordan tried his hand at baseball, with the White Sox ?    Also, pro sports has physical requirements.  Most baseball players aren't tall enough for basketball, or husky enough for football. (and could you just see then trying to ice skate ?) LOL.


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## Mr. H.

If all else fails, call the UN.


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## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> If/whenever they profit from ticket sales, TV $$$, et al, they won't be spending, they'll be receiving.  You only mentioned the money out.  There's also the money coming IN.
> Did Forbes say anything about that ?
> 
> Also, if MLB (and other pro sports preferably), was deprivatized, the $485 million figure goes right down the drain.  All the idiocy that has been ruling the roost will disappear.  Players salaries will shrink to maybe $300K/year tops, ticket prices will go down, sales will soar, stadiums will be built in upper economic communities, not alongside large black ghettos, and old, poor retirement communities like Tropicana Field was ludicriously done.  What exists now is not the yardstick.  That yardstick will be in the trash can, and a whole new scenario will exist.  Forbes only talks about the old.  I'm talking about the new.  And in that "new", "worth" will be how fans are able to go to games and love it, not measured in $$$.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The money in baseball is not strictly from fans attending games.  The TV rights pay as much, if not more, than the tickets do.
> 
> You suggest taking the players salaries down to $300k a year as the top end?  Since the current players have contracts that legally require payment, you will have to weed them out over time.  And, over time, the best players will either take up another sport or go somewhere else to play.
> 
> And I am still curious why you think the owners of the teams will be willing to sell.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. I already mentioned TV $$.
> 
> 2  So the players get weeded.  Whatever.
> 
> 3.  I already mentioned _"(and other pro sports preferably)"_, so the players wouldn't have that option.  In addition, just because a guy can play one sport, that doesn't mean he can play another.  Remember when Michael Jordan tried his hand at baseball, with the White Sox ?    Also, pro sports has physical requirements.  Most baseball players aren't tall enough for basketball, or husky enough for football. (and could you just see then trying to ice skate ?) LOL.
Click to expand...


This is all well and good.  But the first thing you have to do is get the owners to sell.   I doubt they will be interested.  They damn sure won't be for cut-rate prices.  So you are gonna have to pony up billions of dollars to start this fantasy.


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## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> If it such a profitable endeavor, why do you assume the owners would be willing to sell?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see it as profitable AFTER they let loose of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see them not wanting to sell.  They have invested a lot of money, time and effort into it.
> 
> You might be able to buy a few minor league teams, and maybe one or two major league teams, but that is it.  And if your salary limit is $300k per player, then few players will be coming your way.
> 
> And there are 10 MLB teams that are supposedly worth at least $1 billion.
Click to expand...


Your use of the word _"worth"_ is something within the baseball capitalist mindset.  I'm talking from outside of that.  This whole thing has degraded so far down, it is time for govt to step in and impose regulation (BIG time)  This is a perfect example of how far into disarray and insanity things can go, when left entirely to the free market.  Whole thing needs to be REDEFINED.  Nationalize the whole league, and then put them under state controls.


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## protectionist

Mr. H. said:


> If all else fails, call the UN.



They're too busy working for Hamas.


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## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see it as profitable AFTER they let loose of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see them not wanting to sell.  They have invested a lot of money, time and effort into it.
> 
> You might be able to buy a few minor league teams, and maybe one or two major league teams, but that is it.  And if your salary limit is $300k per player, then few players will be coming your way.
> 
> And there are 10 MLB teams that are supposedly worth at least $1 billion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your use of the word _"worth"_ is something within the baseball capitalist mindset.  I'm talking from outside of that.  This whole thing has degraded so far down, it is time for govt to step in and impose regulation (BIG time)
> Whole thing needs to be REDEFINED.
Click to expand...


So you want the gov't to step in and steal major league basebal teams from their rightful owners and give them to some sort of halfassed citizen consortium??

You want to cheat the team owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars, and take their property, against their will and by force, all because you don't like the way they are playing the game now??  

I have seen some suggestions for temper tantrums, but this one takes the cake.


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## boedicca

You think Government Bureaucrats will do better at managing team rosters?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!


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## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see it as profitable AFTER they let loose of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see them not wanting to sell.  They have invested a lot of money, time and effort into it.
> 
> You might be able to buy a few minor league teams, and maybe one or two major league teams, but that is it.  And if your salary limit is $300k per player, then few players will be coming your way.
> 
> And there are 10 MLB teams that are supposedly worth at least $1 billion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your use of the word _"worth"_ is something within the baseball capitalist mindset.  I'm talking from outside of that.  This whole thing has degraded so far down, it is time for govt to step in and impose regulation (BIG time)  This is a perfect example of how far into disarray and insanity things can go, when left entirely to the free market.  Whole thing needs to be REDEFINED.  Nationalize the whole league, and then put them under state controls.
Click to expand...


You are talking fantasy.

When I use the word "worth" I am quoting the financial worth of the teams.  It is not something you can simply dismiss because you remember baseball being different.

And the gov't has no business taking over baseball.   It has no vested interest.

You make it sound like it is a matter of national security that you don't think baseball is as entertaining as it once was.

You think it is not as entertaining, so you want the gov't to step in and fix it???   LMAO!!


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## WinterBorn

boedicca said:


> You think Government Bureaucrats will do better at managing team rosters?
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!



Right??    Put a limit of, at most, $300k per player, but take $20 million in bureaucrats to plan the season.


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## boedicca

WinterBorn said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think Government Bureaucrats will do better at managing team rosters?
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right??    Put a limit of, at most, $300k per player, but take $20 million in bureaucrats to plan the season.
Click to expand...



Are you kidding?   It would cost 10X what baseball does now given how the government runs things.


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## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see them not wanting to sell.  They have invested a lot of money, time and effort into it.
> 
> You might be able to buy a few minor league teams, and maybe one or two major league teams, but that is it.  And if your salary limit is $300k per player, then few players will be coming your way.
> 
> And there are 10 MLB teams that are supposedly worth at least $1 billion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of the word _"worth"_ is something within the baseball capitalist mindset.  I'm talking from outside of that.  This whole thing has degraded so far down, it is time for govt to step in and impose regulation (BIG time)
> Whole thing needs to be REDEFINED.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you want the gov't to step in and steal major league basebal teams from their rightful owners and give them to some sort of halfassed citizen consortium??
> 
> You want to cheat the team owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars, and take their property, against their will and by force, all because you don't like the way they are playing the game now??
> 
> I have seen some suggestions for temper tantrums, but this one takes the cake.
Click to expand...


No, I'd like to see govt step in  and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans.  The game of pro baseball.  And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ?  What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.

Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I _"don't like the way they are playing the game now"_.  YOU KNOW why.  It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
And it's not a temper tantrum.  It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ?  )


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## protectionist

boedicca said:


> You think Government Bureaucrats will do better at managing team rosters?
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!



Could they really do worse than what we're seeing now (Ex. David Price "trade") ?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!


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## boedicca

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of the word _"worth"_ is something within the baseball capitalist mindset.  I'm talking from outside of that.  This whole thing has degraded so far down, it is time for govt to step in and impose regulation (BIG time)
> Whole thing needs to be REDEFINED.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you want the gov't to step in and steal major league basebal teams from their rightful owners and give them to some sort of halfassed citizen consortium??
> 
> You want to cheat the team owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars, and take their property, against their will and by force, all because you don't like the way they are playing the game now??
> 
> I have seen some suggestions for temper tantrums, but this one takes the cake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I'd like to see govt step in  and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans.  The game of pro baseball.  And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ?  What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.
> 
> Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I _"don't like the way they are playing the game now"_.  YOU KNOW why.  It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
> And it's not a temper tantrum.  It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ?  )
Click to expand...



Owners stole baseball from the fans?
?
Really?  When did the fans own and bankroll the teams that the owners stole?


----------



## protectionist

boedicca said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think Government Bureaucrats will do better at managing team rosters?
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right??    Put a limit of, at most, $300k per player, but take $20 million in bureaucrats to plan the season.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Are you kidding?   It would cost 10X what baseball does now given how the government runs things.
Click to expand...


*FALSE!*  It's just the opposite.  it would cost far LESS.  For starters, players salaries would come back down to earth.  Profits would thereby be much higher, and the excess $$$ could be spent to bolster county services (sheriff dept, parks, schools, transportation, etc)


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## protectionist

boedicca said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want the gov't to step in and steal major league basebal teams from their rightful owners and give them to some sort of halfassed citizen consortium??
> 
> You want to cheat the team owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars, and take their property, against their will and by force, all because you don't like the way they are playing the game now??
> 
> I have seen some suggestions for temper tantrums, but this one takes the cake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'd like to see govt step in  and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans.  The game of pro baseball.  And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ?  What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.
> 
> Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I _"don't like the way they are playing the game now"_.  YOU KNOW why.  It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
> And it's not a temper tantrum.  It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ?  )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Owners stole baseball from the fans?
> ?
> Really?  When did the fans own and bankroll the teams that the owners stole?
Click to expand...


You have one definition of "owning".  I have another.   And as far as I'm concerned these MLB owners can take their millions and shove them.


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## Manonthestreet

Twins have been doing this for yrs and we were dumb enough to build them a new stadium so they could triple the ticket prices on us.


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## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see them not wanting to sell.  They have invested a lot of money, time and effort into it.
> 
> You might be able to buy a few minor league teams, and maybe one or two major league teams, but that is it.  And if your salary limit is $300k per player, then few players will be coming your way.
> 
> And there are 10 MLB teams that are supposedly worth at least $1 billion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of the word _"worth"_ is something within the baseball capitalist mindset.  I'm talking from outside of that.  This whole thing has degraded so far down, it is time for govt to step in and impose regulation (BIG time)  This is a perfect example of how far into disarray and insanity things can go, when left entirely to the free market.  Whole thing needs to be REDEFINED.  Nationalize the whole league, and then put them under state controls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are talking fantasy.
> 
> When I use the word "worth" I am quoting the financial worth of the teams.  It is not something you can simply dismiss because you remember baseball being different.
> 
> And the gov't has no business taking over baseball.   It has no vested interest.
> 
> You make it sound like it is a matter of national security that you don't think baseball is as entertaining as it once was.
> 
> You think it is not as entertaining, so you want the gov't to step in and fix it???   LMAO!!
Click to expand...


You are talking rationalizing.

When you use the word "worth" you are quoting the financial worth of the teams, WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM, which I propose to abolish, making that "financial worth" non-existent.

The govt most certainly DOES have a business taking over baseball.  Govt's business is PROTECTION of the public.  That is it's # 1 duty.  Getting rid of these moneymongers and restoring sanity to baseball, is doing just that.

I didn't say anything about _"entertaining"_.  That's your word, Not mine.  I want the govt to step in fix it > because it is broken, and a complete MESS.


----------



## boedicca

protectionist said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think Government Bureaucrats will do better at managing team rosters?
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could they really do worse than what we're seeing now (Ex. David Price "trade") ?
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...



You.Are.An.Idiot.


----------



## protectionist

Manonthestreet said:


> Twins have been doing this for yrs and we were dumb enough to build them a new stadium so they could triple the ticket prices on us.



"THEY" tripled the ticket prices ?  Who is this *"they"* you are referring to ?


----------



## protectionist

boedicca said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> You think Government Bureaucrats will do better at managing team rosters?
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could they really do worse than what we're seeing now (Ex. David Price "trade") ?
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You.Are.An.Idiot.
Click to expand...


In other words, you've run out of things to say to back up your position, so you are reduced to childish name-calling.  Gotcha.


----------



## Manonthestreet

protectionist said:


> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Twins have been doing this for yrs and we were dumb enough to build them a new stadium so they could triple the ticket prices on us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "THEY" tripled the ticket prices ?  Who is this *"they"* you are referring to ?
Click to expand...

What kind of stupid question is that


----------



## protectionist

Manonthestreet said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Manonthestreet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Twins have been doing this for yrs and we were dumb enough to build them a new stadium so they could triple the ticket prices on us.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "THEY" tripled the ticket prices ?  Who is this *"they"* you are referring to ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What kind of stupid question is that
Click to expand...


Nothing stupid about it.  You used the word "they".  Who are you talking about ?  Just answer the question.  If you have an answer.


----------



## Manonthestreet

Gee who sets the prices ......you do know being such a dedicated fan dont ya.....like I said stupid question


----------



## protectionist

Manonthestreet said:


> Gee who sets the prices ......you do know being such a dedicated fan dont ya.....like I said stupid question



Sounds like you don't want to answer the question, being afraid what I might say in response.  It's your non-response that is stupid

If you ever crawl out from under that desk you've been hiding under and answer the question, and then hear my response, you'll find out why my question isn't stupid at all.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of the word _"worth"_ is something within the baseball capitalist mindset.  I'm talking from outside of that.  This whole thing has degraded so far down, it is time for govt to step in and impose regulation (BIG time)
> Whole thing needs to be REDEFINED.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you want the gov't to step in and steal major league basebal teams from their rightful owners and give them to some sort of halfassed citizen consortium??
> 
> You want to cheat the team owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars, and take their property, against their will and by force, all because you don't like the way they are playing the game now??
> 
> I have seen some suggestions for temper tantrums, but this one takes the cake.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I'd like to see govt step in  and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans.  The game of pro baseball.  And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ?  What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.
> 
> Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I _"don't like the way they are playing the game now"_.  YOU KNOW why.  It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
> And it's not a temper tantrum.  It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ?  )
Click to expand...


You want to STEAL something from private citizens and give it to someone you think will bring it back to some "golden age" nonsense??

What makes you think you have a right to someone else's property?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'd like to see govt step in  and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans.  The game of pro baseball.  And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ?  What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.
> 
> Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I _"don't like the way they are playing the game now"_.  YOU KNOW why.  It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
> And it's not a temper tantrum.  It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ?  )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Owners stole baseball from the fans?
> ?
> Really?  When did the fans own and bankroll the teams that the owners stole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have one definition of "owning".  I have another.   And as far as I'm concerned these MLB owners can take their millions and shove them.
Click to expand...


Then you are inventing a new definition for "owning".  By every legal defintion, the MBL team owners own those teams.  You want to try and claim some ownership because you have been a fan?  You bought tickets, memorized statistics and ate a few hotdogs watching them play??

You have absolutely no right to steal someone elses property.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of the word _"worth"_ is something within the baseball capitalist mindset.  I'm talking from outside of that.  This whole thing has degraded so far down, it is time for govt to step in and impose regulation (BIG time)  This is a perfect example of how far into disarray and insanity things can go, when left entirely to the free market.  Whole thing needs to be REDEFINED.  Nationalize the whole league, and then put them under state controls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking fantasy.
> 
> When I use the word "worth" I am quoting the financial worth of the teams.  It is not something you can simply dismiss because you remember baseball being different.
> 
> And the gov't has no business taking over baseball.   It has no vested interest.
> 
> You make it sound like it is a matter of national security that you don't think baseball is as entertaining as it once was.
> 
> You think it is not as entertaining, so you want the gov't to step in and fix it???   LMAO!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are talking rationalizing.
> 
> When you use the word "worth" you are quoting the financial worth of the teams, WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM, which I propose to abolish, making that "financial worth" non-existent.
> 
> The govt most certainly DOES have a business taking over baseball.  Govt's business is PROTECTION of the public.  That is it's # 1 duty.  Getting rid of these moneymongers and restoring sanity to baseball, is doing just that.
> 
> I didn't say anything about _"entertaining"_.  That's your word, Not mine.  I want the govt to step in fix it > because it is broken, and a complete MESS.
Click to expand...


What?   Are you high??   You want the gov't to STEAL private property, and you claim it is to protect the citizens???   From what??   High ticket prices?  I have a simpler cure.  Don't go to the games.

Baseball is not a national security interest.  There is no need for baseball.  It is purely entertainment.  It is a GAME played to entertain the fans.  If you are not entertained, find something else.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could they really do worse than what we're seeing now (Ex. David Price "trade") ?
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You.Are.An.Idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In other words, you've run out of things to say to back up your position, so you are reduced to childish name-calling.  Gotcha.
Click to expand...


Your position is that the gov't should STEAL these teams from their rightful owners, and somehow make it better.   You cannot possibly defend that position.  There is no rational reason for the gov't to take over baseball.   If the MLB owners decided to CLOSE the entire endeavor, the gov't still has no right to take their property.


----------



## WinterBorn

I tell you what.  If you don't like the way the lawful, legal owners are operating, then you start your own league.

You don't get to use the gov't to take by force what others own, unless there is a valid reason and a national interest.

Get those fans to pony up the cash to start their own league.  Don't have someone else to the work and then you come in and steal their property.


----------



## WinterBorn

This idea you have that the gov't should take over baseball because it is not run like you want and because the owners (businessmen running a business) are greedy is absolutely a joke.

If it were to happen, which is absurdly ridiculous, it would be the most devastating precedent ever.

There would no longer be any private property.  Everything would be subject to gov't take over.  Every business in existence would be, according to someone, a model of what you claim about baseball.

I guess socialism appeals to some.  Perhaps you could move to Cuba and see how you like it.


----------



## WinterBorn

It looks as though Protectionist sobered up and thought better of his plan.

That goodness for his awakening.


----------



## Manonthestreet

I think his team needs a new stadium and his taxes need to be jacked so he can really appreciate the game.


----------



## bayoubill

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see it as profitable AFTER they let loose of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see them not wanting to sell.  They have invested a lot of money, time and effort into it.
> 
> You might be able to buy a few minor league teams, and maybe one or two major league teams, but that is it.  And if your salary limit is $300k per player, then few players will be coming your way.
> 
> And there are 10 MLB teams that are supposedly worth at least $1 billion.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your use of the word _"worth"_ is something within the baseball capitalist mindset.  I'm talking from outside of that.  This whole thing has degraded so far down, it is time for govt to step in and impose regulation (BIG time)  This is a perfect example of how far into disarray and insanity things can go, when left entirely to the free market.  Whole thing needs to be REDEFINED.  Nationalize the whole league, and then put them under state controls.
Click to expand...


oh yeah...! government-run baseball...!

I have no doubt that'll succeed beyond our wildest expectations...


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want the gov't to step in and steal major league basebal teams from their rightful owners and give them to some sort of halfassed citizen consortium??
> 
> You want to cheat the team owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars, and take their property, against their will and by force, all because you don't like the way they are playing the game now??
> 
> I have seen some suggestions for temper tantrums, but this one takes the cake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'd like to see govt step in  and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans.  The game of pro baseball.  And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ?  What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.
> 
> Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I _"don't like the way they are playing the game now"_.  YOU KNOW why.  It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
> And it's not a temper tantrum.  It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ?  )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You want to STEAL something from private citizens and give it to someone you think will bring it back to some "golden age" nonsense??
> 
> What makes you think you have a right to someone else's property?
Click to expand...


Just the thought of a cultural institution revered by millions of people, being one person's property, makes me cringe.  How it ever got to even be this way shows how cockeyed American society has been over the years.

  What gives the public the right to MLB, is that when not in the hands of the public, and in the hands of private greed freaks, they have been making a frightful MESS out of it.  That's what gives us the right.  Now if you have any more questions just ask.  Like why water is used for cleaning.  Like why clothing is used to keep us warm.  Like why cooking is good for health. And other tough questions like that.  Pheeeeeww!! (high-pitched whistle)


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Owners stole baseball from the fans?
> ?
> Really?  When did the fans own and bankroll the teams that the owners stole?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have one definition of "owning".  I have another.   And as far as I'm concerned these MLB owners can take their millions and shove them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Then you are inventing a new definition for "owning".  By every legal defintion, the MBL team owners own those teams.  You want to try and claim some ownership because you have been a fan?  You bought tickets, memorized statistics and ate a few hotdogs watching them play??
> 
> You have absolutely no right to steal someone elses property.
Click to expand...


"Legal" definition ?  HA HA.  Since when have laws been immune to being changed ?  New laws are being passed all the time.  Ever hear of the US Congress ? State legislatures ?  County Commissions ?  I've already defined the right the public has, and I never even needed to state it.  For normal intelligent people this is understood already.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking fantasy.
> 
> When I use the word "worth" I am quoting the financial worth of the teams.  It is not something you can simply dismiss because you remember baseball being different.
> 
> And the gov't has no business taking over baseball.   It has no vested interest.
> 
> You make it sound like it is a matter of national security that you don't think baseball is as entertaining as it once was.
> 
> You think it is not as entertaining, so you want the gov't to step in and fix it???   LMAO!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking rationalizing.
> 
> When you use the word "worth" you are quoting the financial worth of the teams, WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM, which I propose to abolish, making that "financial worth" non-existent.
> 
> The govt most certainly DOES have a business taking over baseball.  Govt's business is PROTECTION of the public.  That is it's # 1 duty.  Getting rid of these moneymongers and restoring sanity to baseball, is doing just that.
> 
> I didn't say anything about _"entertaining"_.  That's your word, Not mine.  I want the govt to step in fix it > because it is broken, and a complete MESS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What?   Are you high??   You want the gov't to STEAL private property, and you claim it is to protect the citizens???   From what??   High ticket prices?  I have a simpler cure.  Don't go to the games.
> 
> Baseball is not a national security interest.  There is no need for baseball.  It is purely entertainment.  It is a GAME played to entertain the fans.  If you are not entertained, find something else.
Click to expand...


That's a very weak post.  I've already posted what the harm is, and what the protection from it is.  The OP stated the case.  And it's all very obvious without any explanations.

And as the Rock of WWE fame would say >> *"IT DOESN'T MATTER"* if it's a national security interest.     All that matters is that the public is being harmed in a major way, involving a major part of US culture, and it is govts responsibility to PROTECT the public.

So the next question (FOR YOU) might be > do you own stock in a MLB team ?


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> You.Are.An.Idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you've run out of things to say to back up your position, so you are reduced to childish name-calling.  Gotcha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your position is that the gov't should STEAL these teams from their rightful owners, and somehow make it better.   You cannot possibly defend that position.  There is no rational reason for the gov't to take over baseball.   If the MLB owners decided to CLOSE the entire endeavor, the gov't still has no right to take their property.
Click to expand...


Congratulations.  You've posted 4 posts in a row now, all saying the same thing, all of which was refuted in the OP before you posted any of them.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'd like to see govt step in  and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans.  The game of pro baseball.  And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ?  What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.
> 
> Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I _"don't like the way they are playing the game now"_.  YOU KNOW why.  It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
> And it's not a temper tantrum.  It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ?  )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want to STEAL something from private citizens and give it to someone you think will bring it back to some "golden age" nonsense??
> 
> What makes you think you have a right to someone else's property?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Just the thought of a cultural institution revered by millions of people, being one person's property, makes me cringe.  How it ever got to even be this way shows how cockeyed American society has been over the years.
> 
> What gives the public the right to MLB, is that when not in the hands of the public, and in the hands of private greed freaks, they have been making a frightful MESS out of it.  That's what gives us the right.  Now if you have any more questions just ask.  Like why water is used for cleaning.  Like why clothing is used to keep us warm.  Like why cooking is good for health. And other tough questions like that.  Pheeeeeww!! (high-pitched whistle)
Click to expand...


YOu have lost your mind.

Why not get fans to start a new league??   Why do you demand that you be given the results of someone else's work and investment?

Yes, it is a national tradition.  But teams are also owned by people.  I know that may ruin the fantasy that these valiant athletes are playing for God and country, but that is pure bullshit.   And whether baseball is played well or badly does not effect this country one iota, except for the dissatisfaction of the fans.   And being dissatisfied with something that is pure entertainment does not give you the right to steal BILLIONS of dollars from the rightful owners.

The owners spend millions building an organization.  The athletes spend countless hours perfecting their skills.  And you want to claim all that should be given away for the entertainment of the fans??

And that is exactly what it is.  It is entertainment.  That you can somehow be delusional enough to claim the gov't should take it over because of PUBLIC SAFETY is hilarious!!!

It is a game.  It is entertainment.  People own the teams and players play for big money.  That you want to steal the entire thing because you dislike the way it is being played now shows you are a blind socialist.

Not happening, Sparky.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> I tell you what.  If you don't like the way the lawful, legal owners are operating, then you start your own league.
> 
> You don't get to use the gov't to take by force what others own, unless there is a valid reason and a national interest.
> 
> Get those fans to pony up the cash to start their own league.  Don't have someone else to the work and then you come in and steal their property.



The "valid reason and a national interest" was clearly stated in the OP, and this is 5 posts from you in a row,  ranting already refuted hot air.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you've run out of things to say to back up your position, so you are reduced to childish name-calling.  Gotcha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your position is that the gov't should STEAL these teams from their rightful owners, and somehow make it better.   You cannot possibly defend that position.  There is no rational reason for the gov't to take over baseball.   If the MLB owners decided to CLOSE the entire endeavor, the gov't still has no right to take their property.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Congratulations.  You've posted 4 posts in a row now, all saying the same thing, all of which was refuted in the OP before you posted any of them.
Click to expand...


Refuted?  You have refuted nothing.  You want to steal billions of dollars worth of property from its rightful owners.

You have no justification for that.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking rationalizing.
> 
> When you use the word "worth" you are quoting the financial worth of the teams, WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM, which I propose to abolish, making that "financial worth" non-existent.
> 
> The govt most certainly DOES have a business taking over baseball.  Govt's business is PROTECTION of the public.  That is it's # 1 duty.  Getting rid of these moneymongers and restoring sanity to baseball, is doing just that.
> 
> I didn't say anything about _"entertaining"_.  That's your word, Not mine.  I want the govt to step in fix it > because it is broken, and a complete MESS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What?   Are you high??   You want the gov't to STEAL private property, and you claim it is to protect the citizens???   From what??   High ticket prices?  I have a simpler cure.  Don't go to the games.
> 
> Baseball is not a national security interest.  There is no need for baseball.  It is purely entertainment.  It is a GAME played to entertain the fans.  If you are not entertained, find something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a very weak post.  I've already posted what the harm is, and what the protection from it is.  The OP stated the case.  And it's all very obvious without any explanations.
> 
> And as the Rock of WWE fame would say >> *"IT DOESN'T MATTER"* if it's a national security interest.     All that matters is that the public is being harmed in a major way, involving a major part of US culture, and it is govts responsibility to PROTECT the public.
> 
> So the next question (FOR YOU) might be > do you own stock in a MLB team ?
Click to expand...


If you are demanding that the gov't rob its citizens, there better be a damn good reason.  This "cultural entity" crap is not a reason.  The owners paid the bills, assembled the staff, got the players, and done all that.  You don't like teh way the game is going?  Tough.  You build your own league or deal with what is there.

The OP stated nothing worthwhile concerning public safety.  That is about as lame as it gets.

What would the safety hazard be???   How would anyone be harmed?

Pure nonsense.

No, you have not stated reasons, except you want the game run differently.  That does NOT justify stealing private property.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> This idea you have that the gov't should take over baseball because it is not run like you want and because the owners (businessmen running a business) are greedy is absolutely a joke.
> 
> If it were to happen, which is absurdly ridiculous, it would be the most devastating precedent ever.
> 
> There would no longer be any private property.  Everything would be subject to gov't take over.  Every business in existence would be, according to someone, a model of what you claim about baseball.
> 
> I guess socialism appeals to some.  Perhaps you could move to Cuba and see how you like it.



Everything IS subject to govt takeover.  If/whenever is constitutes HARM to the American people (as these current owners wrecking baseball do) 

Capitalism is OK, and I owned my own business for 12 years.  In fact, it's probably the primary occupation I had when I was in the workforce.  But there is room for some socialism too, wherever and whenever necessary, and this just happens to be one of those situations.  Now go take a valium, pet a cat, and take a nice relaxing hot bath.
Temper tantrums don't look good on you, and please get that stinky cigar out of our faces.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are talking rationalizing.
> 
> When you use the word "worth" you are quoting the financial worth of the teams, WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM, which I propose to abolish, making that "financial worth" non-existent.
> 
> The govt most certainly DOES have a business taking over baseball.  Govt's business is PROTECTION of the public.  That is it's # 1 duty.  Getting rid of these moneymongers and restoring sanity to baseball, is doing just that.
> 
> I didn't say anything about _"entertaining"_.  That's your word, Not mine.  I want the govt to step in fix it > because it is broken, and a complete MESS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What?   Are you high??   You want the gov't to STEAL private property, and you claim it is to protect the citizens???   From what??   High ticket prices?  I have a simpler cure.  Don't go to the games.
> 
> Baseball is not a national security interest.  There is no need for baseball.  It is purely entertainment.  It is a GAME played to entertain the fans.  If you are not entertained, find something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's a very weak post.  I've already posted what the harm is, and what the protection from it is.  The OP stated the case.  And it's all very obvious without any explanations.
> 
> And as the Rock of WWE fame would say >> *"IT DOESN'T MATTER"* if it's a national security interest.   *All that matters is that the public is being harmed in a major way*, involving a major part of US culture, and it is govts responsibility to PROTECT the public.
> 
> So the next question (FOR YOU) might be > do you own stock in a MLB team ?
Click to expand...


How is the public being harmed in a major way?  Who is harmed??  Because a sport changed is not valid as "...being harmed in a major way".


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea you have that the gov't should take over baseball because it is not run like you want and because the owners (businessmen running a business) are greedy is absolutely a joke.
> 
> If it were to happen, which is absurdly ridiculous, it would be the most devastating precedent ever.
> 
> There would no longer be any private property.  Everything would be subject to gov't take over.  Every business in existence would be, according to someone, a model of what you claim about baseball.
> 
> I guess socialism appeals to some.  Perhaps you could move to Cuba and see how you like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything IS subject to govt takeover.  If/whenever is constitutes HARM to the American people (as these current owners wrecking baseball do)
> 
> Capitalism is OK, and I owned my own business for 12 years.  In fact, it's probably the primary occupation I had when I was in the workforce.  But there is room for some socialism too, wherever and whenever necessary, and this just happens to be one of those situations.  Now go take a valium, pet a cat, and take a nice relaxing hot bath.
> Temper tantrums don't look good on you, and please get that stinky cigar out of our faces.
Click to expand...


Who is being harmed??   Do you think the gov't exists to make sure nothing changes?  To make sure things run the way you want them to run?

What harm is being done to American citizens??


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> This idea you have that the gov't should take over baseball because it is not run like you want and because the owners (businessmen running a business) are greedy is absolutely a joke.
> 
> If it were to happen, which is absurdly ridiculous, it would be the most devastating precedent ever.
> 
> There would no longer be any private property.  Everything would be subject to gov't take over.  Every business in existence would be, according to someone, a model of what you claim about baseball.
> 
> I guess socialism appeals to some.  Perhaps you could move to Cuba and see how you like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything IS subject to govt takeover.  If/whenever is constitutes HARM to the American people (as these current owners wrecking baseball do)
> 
> Capitalism is OK, and I owned my own business for 12 years.  In fact, it's probably the primary occupation I had when I was in the workforce.  But there is room for some socialism too, wherever and whenever necessary, and this just happens to be one of those situations.  *Now go take a valium, pet a cat, and take a nice relaxing hot bath.
> Temper tantrums don't look good on you, and please get that stinky cigar out of our faces.*
Click to expand...


Save the bold portion for someone who wants to wander off topic.

You demand that the gov't rob US citizens by claiming the public is threatened with major harm.

What harm????


----------



## protectionist

bayoubill said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I see them not wanting to sell.  They have invested a lot of money, time and effort into it.
> 
> You might be able to buy a few minor league teams, and maybe one or two major league teams, but that is it.  And if your salary limit is $300k per player, then few players will be coming your way.
> 
> And there are 10 MLB teams that are supposedly worth at least $1 billion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of the word _"worth"_ is something within the baseball capitalist mindset.  I'm talking from outside of that.  This whole thing has degraded so far down, it is time for govt to step in and impose regulation (BIG time)  This is a perfect example of how far into disarray and insanity things can go, when left entirely to the free market.  Whole thing needs to be REDEFINED.  Nationalize the whole league, and then put them under state controls.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> oh yeah...! government-run baseball...!
> 
> I have no doubt that'll succeed beyond our wildest expectations...
Click to expand...


Somebody already posted that, Mr. Echo.

This was the answer >> _ "Could they really do worse than what we're seeing now (Ex. David Price "trade") ?"_


----------



## WinterBorn

I'll just wait for you to tell everyone what "major harm" is pending for the public unless citizens are robbed of their property.


----------



## WinterBorn

And you want to limit player's salary to $300k per year??

The average salary last year for MBL players was $3,386,212.   You think they will play for $300k?

The minimum salary for 2014 is $500k.  The players won't play for $300k.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to STEAL something from private citizens and give it to someone you think will bring it back to some "golden age" nonsense??
> 
> What makes you think you have a right to someone else's property?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just the thought of a cultural institution revered by millions of people, being one person's property, makes me cringe.  How it ever got to even be this way shows how cockeyed American society has been over the years.
> 
> What gives the public the right to MLB, is that when not in the hands of the public, and in the hands of private greed freaks, they have been making a frightful MESS out of it.  That's what gives us the right.  Now if you have any more questions just ask.  Like why water is used for cleaning.  Like why clothing is used to keep us warm.  Like why cooking is good for health. And other tough questions like that.  Pheeeeeww!! (high-pitched whistle)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOu have lost your mind.
> 
> Why not get fans to start a new league??   Why do you demand that you be given the results of someone else's work and investment?
> 
> Yes, it is a national tradition.  But teams are also owned by people.  I know that may ruin the fantasy that these valiant athletes are playing for God and country, but that is pure bullshit.   And whether baseball is played well or badly does not effect this country one iota, except for the dissatisfaction of the fans.   And being dissatisfied with something that is pure entertainment does not give you the right to steal BILLIONS of dollars from the rightful owners.
> 
> The owners spend millions building an organization.  The athletes spend countless hours perfecting their skills.  And you want to claim all that should be given away for the entertainment of the fans??
> 
> And that is exactly what it is.  It is entertainment.  That you can somehow be delusional enough to claim the gov't should take it over because of PUBLIC SAFETY is hilarious!!!
> 
> It is a game.  It is entertainment.  People own the teams and players play for big money.  That you want to steal the entire thing because you dislike the way it is being played now shows you are a blind socialist.
> 
> Not happening, Sparky.
Click to expand...


Teams are owned by people NOW.  That doesn't mean it has to remain that way.  And not all teams are owned by individual kings.  Some are owned by the public.  Arent the Green Bay packers and Cleveland Indians govt owned ?

And no Billions of $ are being stolen. That is only your and Forbes definition.

And the ahtletes countless hours pefecting their skills isn't being lost.  They can still play and excel.  You are talking nonsense.

I'm off the computer now.  Your talking ninsense anyway, and not saying anything of any substance.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just the thought of a cultural institution revered by millions of people, being one person's property, makes me cringe.  How it ever got to even be this way shows how cockeyed American society has been over the years.
> 
> What gives the public the right to MLB, is that when not in the hands of the public, and in the hands of private greed freaks, they have been making a frightful MESS out of it.  That's what gives us the right.  Now if you have any more questions just ask.  Like why water is used for cleaning.  Like why clothing is used to keep us warm.  Like why cooking is good for health. And other tough questions like that.  Pheeeeeww!! (high-pitched whistle)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOu have lost your mind.
> 
> Why not get fans to start a new league??   Why do you demand that you be given the results of someone else's work and investment?
> 
> Yes, it is a national tradition.  But teams are also owned by people.  I know that may ruin the fantasy that these valiant athletes are playing for God and country, but that is pure bullshit.   And whether baseball is played well or badly does not effect this country one iota, except for the dissatisfaction of the fans.   And being dissatisfied with something that is pure entertainment does not give you the right to steal BILLIONS of dollars from the rightful owners.
> 
> The owners spend millions building an organization.  The athletes spend countless hours perfecting their skills.  And you want to claim all that should be given away for the entertainment of the fans??
> 
> And that is exactly what it is.  It is entertainment.  That you can somehow be delusional enough to claim the gov't should take it over because of PUBLIC SAFETY is hilarious!!!
> 
> It is a game.  It is entertainment.  People own the teams and players play for big money.  That you want to steal the entire thing because you dislike the way it is being played now shows you are a blind socialist.
> 
> Not happening, Sparky.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Teams are owned by people NOW.  That doesn't mean it has to remain that way.  And not all teams are owned by individual kings.  Some are owned by the public.  Arent the Green Bay packers and Cleveland Indians govt owned ?
> 
> And no Billions of $ are being stolen. That is only your and Forbes definition.
> 
> And the ahtletes countless hours pefecting their skills isn't being lost.  They can still play and excel.  You are talking nonsense.
> 
> I'm off the computer now.  Your talking ninsense anyway, and not saying anything of any substance.
Click to expand...


Yeah, if I had come up with an idea this stupid and had no more back up than you have, I would leave too.


Oh, and Larry Dolan and some trusts own the Cleveland Indians.  

And the Green bay Packers are owned by stockholders.  The gov't owns neither of them.
Yes, billions of dollars are being stolen.  The teams have a financial worth.  Forbes staffed with experts in determining the financial worth, and they have posted it.  You stamping your feet and insisting that the teams are not worth billions does not change the facts.

Yeah, the players can still play and excel.   But you demand that they be paid less than 1/10 of what they were promised under contract.  

Still waiting to see what "major harm" is being done to the American citizens.


----------



## Missourian

I stopped following MLB twenty years ago.

Now I watch MiLB,  Texas League,  Springfield, Missouri Cardinals.

The games are better,  the players have hustle,  it's less expensive to see a game in person,  and closer to boot (for me at least).

The ONLY down side in my case,  is as some of my favorite minor league player move up to the majors,  like Allen Craig,  John Jay,  Matt Adams and Matt Carpenter...I'm tempted to continue following their careers...but to date,  I continue to fight it off.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> And you want to limit player's salary to $300k per year??
> 
> The average salary last year for MBL players was $3,386,212.   You think they will play for $300k?
> 
> The minimum salary for 2014 is $500k.  The players won't play for $300k.



When their other choice is driving a cab for 25K, yeah, I'd think they'd be OK with $300K.  Or 200K. Or 100K.  Pretty good money for playing a kid's game.  You're still not getting this at all.  We're talking about ending lunacy, and creating sanity.  You're still stuck in the world of lunacy, greed-sick owners, spoiled brat players, and a game of baseball that's been twisted out of reality.

  Players play with one team all their career.  A top star doesn't leave his faithful, admiring fans and team and town he loves, like David Price loved Tampa Bay and his millions of fans and teammates here, just because of money and the greed of one deranged billionaire..  Money has been destroying this game for too long.  It was time to take money out of the scenario long ago.  Better late than never.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you want to limit player's salary to $300k per year??
> 
> The average salary last year for MBL players was $3,386,212.   You think they will play for $300k?
> 
> The minimum salary for 2014 is $500k.  The players won't play for $300k.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When their other choice is driving a cab for 25K, yeah, I'd think they'd be OK with $300K.  Or 200K. Or 100K.  *Pretty good money for playing a kid's game. * You're still not getting this at all.  We're talking about ending lunacy, and creating sanity.  You're still stuck in the world of lunacy, greed-sick owners, spoiled brat players, and a game of baseball that's been twisted out of reality.
> 
> Players play with one team all their career.  A top star doesn't leave his faithful, admiring fans and team and town he loves, like David Price loved Tampa Bay and his millions of fans and teammates here, just because of money and the greed of one deranged billionaire..  Money has been destroying this game for too long.  It was time to take money out of the scenario long ago.  Better late than never.
Click to expand...


A kid's game?   But it is of paramount importance to the nation!!    It is so critical to national interests that you demand people have billion dollar businesses stolen from them by the gov't.   But when it is about the athletes, it is "Pretty good money for playing a kid's game".

Yes, it is good money.  Until you factor in the average length of an MLB career.  Then it is not so much.  The average MLB career is 5.6 years.   Average Major League Baseball Career 5.6 Years, Says New Study -- ScienceDaily

If a kid spends 4 years playing college ball or in the minors, then plays 5.6 years in the major leagues, what he makes will need to last him.  If he lives to be 75, its starts looking paltry on your pay scale.

If he makes $100k a year while he plays, that divides down to $10,556.04  per year until he is 75.

If he makes $200k a year while he plays, that divides down to $21,132.08  per year until he is 75.

If he makes $300k a year while he plays, that divides down to $31,698.11  per year until he is 75.

Yeah, none of that includes any interest earned.  But it also doesn't include any taxes lost.  

Ever know a 45 year old former pro athlete?  Those years can be tough on a body.





BTW, I'm still waiting for you to define the "major harm" being done to American citizens.


----------



## protectionist

Missourian said:


> I stopped following MLB twenty years ago.
> 
> Now I watch MiLB,  Texas League,  Springfield, Missouri Cardinals.
> 
> The games are better,  the players have hustle,  it's less expensive to see a game in person,  and closer to boot (for me at least).
> 
> The ONLY down side in my case,  is as some of my favorite minor league player move up to the majors,  like Allen Craig,  John Jay,  Matt Adams and Matt Carpenter...I'm tempted to continue following their careers...but to date,  I continue to fight it off.



Great post.  Refreshing to see a post in here with exactly the right idea.  I too went to minor league baseball about 20 years ago, when they had the MLB players strike.  I lived in Pinellas County in the Tampa Bay area, and I went to some of the Dundein Blue Jays and Clearwater Phillies games back then.  They were great.  Everything was inexpensive and easy to do.  Ticket prices, parking, concessions, etc, and you got to see a very fine ball game .

  The minor league players play hard too.  They're trying to make it to the majors.  I honestly don't know why I ever went back to watching MLB.  Since I'm no longer watching the Rays (or anything having to do with MLB), I'm going to return to the minor league fan base. I'm in Tampa now, so I guess I'll become a Tampa Yankees fan.

 Thanks for the helpful reminder.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> And you want to limit player's salary to $300k per year??
> 
> The average salary last year for MBL players was $3,386,212.   You think they will play for $300k?
> 
> The minimum salary for 2014 is $500k.  The players won't play for $300k.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When their other choice is driving a cab for 25K, yeah, I'd think they'd be OK with $300K.  Or 200K. Or 100K.  *Pretty good money for playing a kid's game. * You're still not getting this at all.  We're talking about ending lunacy, and creating sanity.  You're still stuck in the world of lunacy, greed-sick owners, spoiled brat players, and a game of baseball that's been twisted out of reality.
> 
> Players play with one team all their career.  A top star doesn't leave his faithful, admiring fans and team and town he loves, like David Price loved Tampa Bay and his millions of fans and teammates here, just because of money and the greed of one deranged billionaire..  Money has been destroying this game for too long.  It was time to take money out of the scenario long ago.  Better late than never.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A kid's game?   But it is of paramount importance to the nation!!    It is so critical to national interests that you demand people have billion dollar businesses stolen from them by the gov't.   But when it is about the athletes, it is "Pretty good money for playing a kid's game".
> 
> Yes, it is good money.  Until you factor in the average length of an MLB career.  Then it is not so much.  The average MLB career is 5.6 years.   Average Major League Baseball Career 5.6 Years, Says New Study -- ScienceDaily
> 
> If a kid spends 4 years playing college ball or in the minors, then plays 5.6 years in the major leagues, what he makes will need to last him.  If he lives to be 75, its starts looking paltry on your pay scale.
> 
> If he makes $100k a year while he plays, that divides down to $10,556.04  per year until he is 75.
> 
> If he makes $200k a year while he plays, that divides down to $21,132.08  per year until he is 75.
> 
> If he makes $300k a year while he plays, that divides down to $31,698.11  per year until he is 75.
> 
> Yeah, none of that includes any interest earned.  But it also doesn't include any taxes lost.
> 
> Ever know a 45 year old former pro athlete?  Those years can be tough on a body.
> 
> BTW, I'm still waiting for you to define the "major harm" being done to American citizens.
Click to expand...


No you're not.   I've already defined it repeately.  Not my fault if you're to dumb to understand it (or pretending you don't) 

As for your years breakdown, it is not very substantial.  There a re many people who work in one career for 20 year (or less than that) and then they switch over to working in something else. I did that myself.  I started out teaching in college.  Then became an urban planner.  Then worked in manufacturing as a QC inspector and QC engineer.  Then owned my own business for 12 years.  The worked in the industrial security field, and then retired.

  Baseball players can do that too.  Many of them remain in MLB periphrally, as scouts, coaches, managers, sportscasters of games, writers, TV and radio commentors.  In addition, many ex-players get employment with high school, college, little league, junior league, olympic teams, etc.

  Your argument is similar to the coal occupation workers who say "we'll lose our jobs".  Well, did God ever specify that anyone is entitled to any particular job, or income from it for life ?  Lots of other jobs exist, and so does the opportunity to open one's own business.  With the money that these overpampered, overpaid prima donnas have been making, they could easily open their own small businesses, and do quite well with them.  I opened a business of my own, did very well with it, expanding to 3 branch offices in 3 counties, and I started that business on $50, in 1983.

PS - After age 62, they also are eligible for Social Security, and having had $100-$300/yr salaries, their Social Security payments would be very high.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> When their other choice is driving a cab for 25K, yeah, I'd think they'd be OK with $300K.  Or 200K. Or 100K.  *Pretty good money for playing a kid's game. * You're still not getting this at all.  We're talking about ending lunacy, and creating sanity.  You're still stuck in the world of lunacy, greed-sick owners, spoiled brat players, and a game of baseball that's been twisted out of reality.
> 
> Players play with one team all their career.  A top star doesn't leave his faithful, admiring fans and team and town he loves, like David Price loved Tampa Bay and his millions of fans and teammates here, just because of money and the greed of one deranged billionaire..  Money has been destroying this game for too long.  It was time to take money out of the scenario long ago.  Better late than never.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A kid's game?   But it is of paramount importance to the nation!!    It is so critical to national interests that you demand people have billion dollar businesses stolen from them by the gov't.   But when it is about the athletes, it is "Pretty good money for playing a kid's game".
> 
> Yes, it is good money.  Until you factor in the average length of an MLB career.  Then it is not so much.  The average MLB career is 5.6 years.   Average Major League Baseball Career 5.6 Years, Says New Study -- ScienceDaily
> 
> If a kid spends 4 years playing college ball or in the minors, then plays 5.6 years in the major leagues, what he makes will need to last him.  If he lives to be 75, its starts looking paltry on your pay scale.
> 
> If he makes $100k a year while he plays, that divides down to $10,556.04  per year until he is 75.
> 
> If he makes $200k a year while he plays, that divides down to $21,132.08  per year until he is 75.
> 
> If he makes $300k a year while he plays, that divides down to $31,698.11  per year until he is 75.
> 
> Yeah, none of that includes any interest earned.  But it also doesn't include any taxes lost.
> 
> Ever know a 45 year old former pro athlete?  Those years can be tough on a body.
> 
> BTW, I'm still waiting for you to define the "major harm" being done to American citizens.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No you're not.   I've already defined it repeately.  Not my fault if you're to dumb to understand it (or pretending you don't)
> 
> As for your years breakdown, it is not very substantial.  There a re many people who work in one career for 20 year (or less than that) and then they switch over to working in something else. I did that myself.  I started out teaching in college.  Then became an urban planner.  Then worked in manufacturing as a QC inspector and QC engineer.  Then owned my own business for 12 years.  The worked in the industrial security field, and then retired.
> 
> Baseball players can do that too.  Many of them remain in MLB periphrally, as scouts, coaches, managers, sportscasters of games, writers, TV and radio commentors.  In addition, many ex-players get employment with high school, college, little league, junior league, olympic teams, etc.
> 
> Your argument is similar to the coal occupation workers who say "we'll lose our jobs".  Well, did God ever specify that anyone is entitled to any particular job, or income from it for life ?  Lots of other jobs exist, and so does the opportunity to open one's own business.  With the money that these overpampered, overpaid prima donnas have been making, they could easily open their own small businesses, and do quite well with them.  I opened a business of my own, did very well with it, expanding to 3 branch offices in 3 counties, and I started that business on $50, in 1983.
> 
> PS - After age 62, they also are eligible for Social Security, and having had $100-$300/yr salaries, their Social Security payments would be very high.
Click to expand...


No, you have not answered my question.   I have asked, repeatedly, what major harm is being done to American citizens?

Even if baseball has changed, and a national treasure has changed, that is hardly "major harm".

You are dancing away from answering. 

Congrats on your building so many careers.   But had someone come in and taken those businesses away from you on a pretense, you would have screamed bloody murder.


----------



## WinterBorn

Missourian said:


> I stopped following MLB twenty years ago.
> 
> Now I watch MiLB,  Texas League,  Springfield, Missouri Cardinals.
> 
> The games are better,  the players have hustle,  it's less expensive to see a game in person,  and closer to boot (for me at least).
> 
> The ONLY down side in my case,  is as some of my favorite minor league player move up to the majors,  like Allen Craig,  John Jay,  Matt Adams and Matt Carpenter...I'm tempted to continue following their careers...but to date,  I continue to fight it off.



Good answer.  You dislike what you see in MLB, so you find an alternative.

Much better than wanting the gov't to rob the owners of billions of dollars.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> A kid's game?   But it is of paramount importance to the nation!!    It is so critical to national interests that you demand people have billion dollar businesses stolen from them by the gov't.   But when it is about the athletes, it is "Pretty good money for playing a kid's game".
> 
> Yes, it is good money.  Until you factor in the average length of an MLB career.  Then it is not so much.  The average MLB career is 5.6 years.   Average Major League Baseball Career 5.6 Years, Says New Study -- ScienceDaily
> 
> If a kid spends 4 years playing college ball or in the minors, then plays 5.6 years in the major leagues, what he makes will need to last him.  If he lives to be 75, its starts looking paltry on your pay scale.
> 
> If he makes $100k a year while he plays, that divides down to $10,556.04  per year until he is 75.
> 
> If he makes $200k a year while he plays, that divides down to $21,132.08  per year until he is 75.
> 
> If he makes $300k a year while he plays, that divides down to $31,698.11  per year until he is 75.
> 
> Yeah, none of that includes any interest earned.  But it also doesn't include any taxes lost.
> 
> Ever know a 45 year old former pro athlete?  Those years can be tough on a body.
> 
> BTW, I'm still waiting for you to define the "major harm" being done to American citizens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No you're not.   I've already defined it repeately.  Not my fault if you're to dumb to understand it (or pretending you don't)
> 
> As for your years breakdown, it is not very substantial.  There a re many people who work in one career for 20 year (or less than that) and then they switch over to working in something else. I did that myself.  I started out teaching in college.  Then became an urban planner.  Then worked in manufacturing as a QC inspector and QC engineer.  Then owned my own business for 12 years.  The worked in the industrial security field, and then retired.
> 
> Baseball players can do that too.  Many of them remain in MLB periphrally, as scouts, coaches, managers, sportscasters of games, writers, TV and radio commentors.  In addition, many ex-players get employment with high school, college, little league, junior league, olympic teams, etc.
> 
> Your argument is similar to the coal occupation workers who say "we'll lose our jobs".  Well, did God ever specify that anyone is entitled to any particular job, or income from it for life ?  Lots of other jobs exist, and so does the opportunity to open one's own business.  With the money that these overpampered, overpaid prima donnas have been making, they could easily open their own small businesses, and do quite well with them.  I opened a business of my own, did very well with it, expanding to 3 branch offices in 3 counties, and I started that business on $50, in 1983.
> 
> PS - After age 62, they also are eligible for Social Security, and having had $100-$300/yr salaries, their Social Security payments would be very high.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you have not answered my question.   I have asked, repeatedly, what major harm is being done to American citizens?
> 
> Even if baseball has changed, and a national treasure has changed, that is hardly "major harm".
> 
> You are dancing away from answering.
> 
> Congrats on your building so many careers.   But had someone come in and taken those businesses away from you on a pretense, you would have screamed bloody murder.
Click to expand...


Are you really just too dumb to comprehend it ?   And maybe you're too young to remember when baseball was managed in a much better way.  In any case, Not My Problem.    The Rays owner just took the Rays right out if the post season that they were pumping up for, and headed straight to it, because of MONEY.  Are you dense ?

And no, I would not have screamed bloody murder if there was a good reason for it, like the good reason in this case, which YOU KNOW what it is, after I have repeatedly stated it.  You don't lie very well. 

The reason is because they're wrecking the game, you dumb ass.  I just dropped a hobby I've had for 60 years.  And so have MANY other Rays fans.  Go to the Rays official web site, and read them on the message board.  You're an IDIOT!!


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stopped following MLB twenty years ago.
> 
> Now I watch MiLB,  Texas League,  Springfield, Missouri Cardinals.
> 
> The games are better,  the players have hustle,  it's less expensive to see a game in person,  and closer to boot (for me at least).
> 
> The ONLY down side in my case,  is as some of my favorite minor league player move up to the majors,  like Allen Craig,  John Jay,  Matt Adams and Matt Carpenter...I'm tempted to continue following their careers...but to date,  I continue to fight it off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good answer.  You dislike what you see in MLB, so you find an alternative.
> 
> Much better than wanting the gov't to rob the owners of billions of dollars.
Click to expand...


I already responded to his good answer.  The CORRECT way.  Now get rid of that disgusting cigar!!!


----------



## Slyhunter

Don't waste my tax paying money on stupid sports teams!
You people need to grow up.


----------



## protectionist

Slyhunter said:


> Don't waste my tax paying money on stupid sports teams!
> You people need to grow up.



Tax money is spent on roads.  Some people don't travel on them.  Tax money is spent on public parks.   Some people don't go there.  Tax money is spent on beaches.   Some people don't go to them.    Tax money is spent on fishing piers.  Some people don't go to them.   Tax money is spent on concert halls.  Some people don't attend concerts.   Tax money is spent on creating jobs.  Some people already have a job.  Coming into focus ?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you're not.   I've already defined it repeately.  Not my fault if you're to dumb to understand it (or pretending you don't)
> 
> As for your years breakdown, it is not very substantial.  There a re many people who work in one career for 20 year (or less than that) and then they switch over to working in something else. I did that myself.  I started out teaching in college.  Then became an urban planner.  Then worked in manufacturing as a QC inspector and QC engineer.  Then owned my own business for 12 years.  The worked in the industrial security field, and then retired.
> 
> Baseball players can do that too.  Many of them remain in MLB periphrally, as scouts, coaches, managers, sportscasters of games, writers, TV and radio commentors.  In addition, many ex-players get employment with high school, college, little league, junior league, olympic teams, etc.
> 
> Your argument is similar to the coal occupation workers who say "we'll lose our jobs".  Well, did God ever specify that anyone is entitled to any particular job, or income from it for life ?  Lots of other jobs exist, and so does the opportunity to open one's own business.  With the money that these overpampered, overpaid prima donnas have been making, they could easily open their own small businesses, and do quite well with them.  I opened a business of my own, did very well with it, expanding to 3 branch offices in 3 counties, and I started that business on $50, in 1983.
> 
> PS - After age 62, they also are eligible for Social Security, and having had $100-$300/yr salaries, their Social Security payments would be very high.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you have not answered my question.   I have asked, repeatedly, what major harm is being done to American citizens?
> 
> Even if baseball has changed, and a national treasure has changed, that is hardly "major harm".
> 
> You are dancing away from answering.
> 
> Congrats on your building so many careers.   But had someone come in and taken those businesses away from you on a pretense, you would have screamed bloody murder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Are you really just too dumb to comprehend it ?   And maybe you're too young to remember when baseball was managed in a much better way.  In any case, Not My Problem.    The Rays owner just took the Rays right out if the post season that they were pumping up for, and headed straight to it, because of MONEY.  Are you dense ?
> 
> And no, I would not have screamed bloody murder if there was a good reason for it, like the good reason in this case, which YOU KNOW what it is, after I have repeatedly stated it.  You don't lie very well.
> 
> The reason is because they're wrecking the game, you dumb ass.  I just dropped a hobby I've had for 60 years.  And so have MANY other Rays fans.  Go to the Rays official web site, and read them on the message board.  You're an IDIOT!!
Click to expand...


So you favorite entertainment changed, and you demand that people lose billions so the gov't can take over??   You call that an answer?   That is robbery.

And no, you have shown nothing that will harm the citizens of this country.  They may have to change the venue for the sport they watch or find a new hobby.  But that is hardly "major harm".


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stopped following MLB twenty years ago.
> 
> Now I watch MiLB,  Texas League,  Springfield, Missouri Cardinals.
> 
> The games are better,  the players have hustle,  it's less expensive to see a game in person,  and closer to boot (for me at least).
> 
> The ONLY down side in my case,  is as some of my favorite minor league player move up to the majors,  like Allen Craig,  John Jay,  Matt Adams and Matt Carpenter...I'm tempted to continue following their careers...but to date,  I continue to fight it off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good answer.  You dislike what you see in MLB, so you find an alternative.
> 
> Much better than wanting the gov't to rob the owners of billions of dollars.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I already responded to his good answer.  The CORRECT way.  Now get rid of that disgusting cigar!!!
Click to expand...


You demanding a gov't takeover and robbing people of their investment is NOT the correct way.

I enjoy my cigars.  Other than it being off topic, you are welcome to try and remove my delicious cigar.


----------



## WinterBorn

There must be quite a few people who like the way MLB is going.

According to this:  List of sports attendance figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Almost 75 million people attended a game last year.

According to this link, baseball has the highest attendance numbers of any sport:  Ranking sports? popularity: And the silver goes to... | The Economist

Not watching games on tv, but actually going out to the ball park and being there.   So, apparently your opinion is not shared by a lot a MLB fans


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you have not answered my question.   I have asked, repeatedly, what major harm is being done to American citizens?
> 
> Even if baseball has changed, and a national treasure has changed, that is hardly "major harm".
> 
> You are dancing away from answering.
> 
> Congrats on your building so many careers.   But had someone come in and taken those businesses away from you on a pretense, you would have screamed bloody murder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you really just too dumb to comprehend it ?   And maybe you're too young to remember when baseball was managed in a much better way.  In any case, Not My Problem.    The Rays owner just took the Rays right out if the post season that they were pumping up for, and headed straight to it, because of MONEY.  Are you dense ?
> 
> And no, I would not have screamed bloody murder if there was a good reason for it, like the good reason in this case, which YOU KNOW what it is, after I have repeatedly stated it.  You don't lie very well.
> 
> The reason is because they're wrecking the game, you dumb ass.  I just dropped a hobby I've had for 60 years.  And so have MANY other Rays fans.  Go to the Rays official web site, and read them on the message board.  You're an IDIOT!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you favorite entertainment changed, and you demand that people lose billions so the gov't can take over??   You call that an answer?   That is robbery.
> 
> And no, you have shown nothing that will harm the citizens of this country.  They may have to change the venue for the sport they watch or find a new hobby.  But that is hardly "major harm".
Click to expand...


Of course, it's a major harm.  Go away TROLL.  You've already been reported for harassment. Now you're increasing your guilt.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good answer.  You dislike what you see in MLB, so you find an alternative.
> 
> Much better than wanting the gov't to rob the owners of billions of dollars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already responded to his good answer.  The CORRECT way.  Now get rid of that disgusting cigar!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You demanding a gov't takeover and robbing people of their investment is NOT the correct way.
> 
> I enjoy my cigars.  Other than it being off topic, you are welcome to try and remove my delicious cigar.
Click to expand...


If you were here I'd remove it, and shove it in your drink.  HA HA HA.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you really just too dumb to comprehend it ?   And maybe you're too young to remember when baseball was managed in a much better way.  In any case, Not My Problem.    The Rays owner just took the Rays right out if the post season that they were pumping up for, and headed straight to it, because of MONEY.  Are you dense ?
> 
> And no, I would not have screamed bloody murder if there was a good reason for it, like the good reason in this case, which YOU KNOW what it is, after I have repeatedly stated it.  You don't lie very well.
> 
> The reason is because they're wrecking the game, you dumb ass.  I just dropped a hobby I've had for 60 years.  And so have MANY other Rays fans.  Go to the Rays official web site, and read them on the message board.  You're an IDIOT!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you favorite entertainment changed, and you demand that people lose billions so the gov't can take over??   You call that an answer?   That is robbery.
> 
> And no, you have shown nothing that will harm the citizens of this country.  They may have to change the venue for the sport they watch or find a new hobby.  But that is hardly "major harm".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course, it's a major harm.  Go away TROLL.  You've already been reported for harassment. Now you're increasing your guilt.
Click to expand...


Of course it is not major harm.  No one is actually harmed.

But please do report me for participating in a thread.  Next you'll ignore me because you are unable to answer my simple question.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I already responded to his good answer.  The CORRECT way.  Now get rid of that disgusting cigar!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You demanding a gov't takeover and robbing people of their investment is NOT the correct way.
> 
> I enjoy my cigars.  Other than it being off topic, you are welcome to try and remove my delicious cigar.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you were here I'd remove it, and shove it in your drink.  HA HA HA.
Click to expand...


Idle threats from a distance.  lol


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> There must be quite a few people who like the way MLB is going.
> 
> According to this:  List of sports attendance figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Almost 75 million people attended a game last year.
> 
> According to this link, baseball has the highest attendance numbers of any sport:  Ranking sports? popularity: And the silver goes to... | The Economist
> 
> Not watching games on tv, but actually going out to the ball park and being there.   So, apparently your opinion is not shared by a lot a MLB fans



1.  Apparently my opinion certainly IS shared by a lot of Rays fans, and here's the evidence of it.  There are many threads in this forum, but if you look through the forum, you will find hundreds of posts in agreement  with me >>

http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/Tampa_Bay_Rays/ml-rays?redirCnt=1&=

2.  Fan attendance is not a valid criterea for assessing popularity of the money culture that baseball has descended into.  Ticket prices, parking, concessions, etc are all $ky high, and games are primarily being attended by the wealthier sector of the fan base, who are the least likely to be upset with the present money decadence.
Fans going to games are a relatively small % of the total fan base. Possibly as low as 10%, with 90% watching the games at home on TV, and in sports bars.  Nice try though. LOL.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> There must be quite a few people who like the way MLB is going.
> 
> According to this:  List of sports attendance figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Almost 75 million people attended a game last year.
> 
> According to this link, baseball has the highest attendance numbers of any sport:  Ranking sports? popularity: And the silver goes to... | The Economist
> 
> Not watching games on tv, but actually going out to the ball park and being there.   So, apparently your opinion is not shared by a lot a MLB fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently my opinion certainly IS shared by a lot of Rays fans, and here's the evidence of it.  There are many threads in this forum, but if you look through the forum, you will find hundreds of posts in agreement  with me >>
> 
> http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/Tampa_Bay_Rays/ml-rays?redirCnt=1&=
Click to expand...


Hundreds of posts online against almost 75 million fans buying tickets and attending a game.  lol

Now back to this "major harm" claim.     I can see being disappointed.  I can see not wanting to find a new hobby or new teams to watch.   But neither of those two things are "major harm" by any stretch of the imagination.

Care to define the "major harm" the citizenry is experiencing?  (I'm guessing you won't)


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> There must be quite a few people who like the way MLB is going.
> 
> According to this:  List of sports attendance figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Almost 75 million people attended a game last year.
> 
> According to this link, baseball has the highest attendance numbers of any sport:  Ranking sports? popularity: And the silver goes to... | The Economist
> 
> Not watching games on tv, but actually going out to the ball park and being there.   So, apparently your opinion is not shared by a lot a MLB fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently my opinion certainly IS shared by a lot of Rays fans, and here's the evidence of it.  There are many threads in this forum, but if you look through the forum, you will find hundreds of posts in agreement  with me >>
> 
> http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/Tampa_Bay_Rays/ml-rays?redirCnt=1&=
Click to expand...


Oh, and there are always disgruntled fans when their teams sucks.  The true fans stick it out and enjoy the wins when they come.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> There must be quite a few people who like the way MLB is going.
> 
> According to this:  List of sports attendance figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Almost 75 million people attended a game last year.
> 
> According to this link, baseball has the highest attendance numbers of any sport:  Ranking sports? popularity: And the silver goes to... | The Economist
> 
> Not watching games on tv, but actually going out to the ball park and being there.   So, apparently your opinion is not shared by a lot a MLB fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently my opinion certainly IS shared by a lot of Rays fans, and here's the evidence of it.  There are many threads in this forum, but if you look through the forum, you will find hundreds of posts in agreement  with me >>
> 
> http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/Tampa_Bay_Rays/ml-rays?redirCnt=1&=
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hundreds of posts online against almost 75 million fans buying tickets and attending a game.  lol
> 
> Now back to this "major harm" claim.     I can see being disappointed.  I can see not wanting to find a new hobby or new teams to watch.   But neither of those two things are "major harm" by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> Care to define the "major harm" the citizenry is experiencing?  (I'm guessing you won't)
Click to expand...


  You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points". 

1.  Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.

2.  For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.

3.  You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it.  Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.


----------



## Defiant1

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently my opinion certainly IS shared by a lot of Rays fans, and here's the evidence of it.  There are many threads in this forum, but if you look through the forum, you will find hundreds of posts in agreement  with me >>
> 
> http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/Tampa_Bay_Rays/ml-rays?redirCnt=1&=
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hundreds of posts online against almost 75 million fans buying tickets and attending a game.  lol
> 
> Now back to this "major harm" claim.     I can see being disappointed.  I can see not wanting to find a new hobby or new teams to watch.   But neither of those two things are "major harm" by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> Care to define the "major harm" the citizenry is experiencing?  (I'm guessing you won't)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".
> 
> 1.  Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.
> 
> 2.  For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.
> 
> 3.  You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it.  Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.
Click to expand...


Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> There must be quite a few people who like the way MLB is going.
> 
> According to this:  List of sports attendance figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Almost 75 million people attended a game last year.
> 
> According to this link, baseball has the highest attendance numbers of any sport:  Ranking sports? popularity: And the silver goes to... | The Economist
> 
> Not watching games on tv, but actually going out to the ball park and being there.   So, apparently your opinion is not shared by a lot a MLB fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Apparently my opinion certainly IS shared by a lot of Rays fans, and here's the evidence of it.  There are many threads in this forum, but if you look through the forum, you will find hundreds of posts in agreement  with me >>
> 
> http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/Tampa_Bay_Rays/ml-rays?redirCnt=1&=
> 
> 2.  Fan attendance is not a valid criterea for assessing popularity of the money culture that baseball has descended into.  Ticket prices, parking, concessions, etc are all $ky high, and games are primarily being attended by the wealthier sector of the fan base, who are the least likely to be upset with the present money decadence.
> Fans going to games are a relatively small % of the total fan base. Possibly as low as 10%, with 90% watching the games at home on TV, and in sports bars.  Nice try though. LOL.
Click to expand...


74+ million fans attended games.  That means an average of 30k fans for every game.

Your claims of it being only the rich is ridiculous.

Yes, there are more fans watching on tv.  That does not change the fact that there are millions of fans who love baseball now.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently my opinion certainly IS shared by a lot of Rays fans, and here's the evidence of it.  There are many threads in this forum, but if you look through the forum, you will find hundreds of posts in agreement  with me >>
> 
> http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/Tampa_Bay_Rays/ml-rays?redirCnt=1&=
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hundreds of posts online against almost 75 million fans buying tickets and attending a game.  lol
> 
> Now back to this "major harm" claim.     I can see being disappointed.  I can see not wanting to find a new hobby or new teams to watch.   But neither of those two things are "major harm" by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> Care to define the "major harm" the citizenry is experiencing?  (I'm guessing you won't)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".
> 
> 1.  Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.
> 
> 2.  For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.
> 
> 3.  You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it.  Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.
Click to expand...


1. No, you made some suppositions.  That changes nothing about the fact that almost 75 million fans attend games.  There are an average of over 30k fans attending 2,500 games across the US.  That is hardly "only the rich" going to the games.  When I have attended Braves games, the crowd was hardly the "upper crust" of the financial world.

2. Hundreds of fans write on a message board, and there are thousands for each of them?  More supposition?  You certainly have no evidence to back that up.

3. Yes, I have been staying on it.  Because, as usual, you refuse to actually answer.  You have not stated one single way that a fan has actually been harmed.  Being disappointed in a sports team or a sport in general is not "harm".  And it is certainly not "major harm".


----------



## Slyhunter

My taxes should not be spent on your private enterprise. Business's should survive or fail based on consumer patronage and not government handouts.


----------



## WinterBorn

Slyhunter said:


> My taxes should not be spent on your private enterprise. Business's should survive or fail based on consumer patronage and not government handouts.



Good point.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> There must be quite a few people who like the way MLB is going.
> 
> According to this:  List of sports attendance figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Almost 75 million people attended a game last year.
> 
> According to this link, baseball has the highest attendance numbers of any sport:  Ranking sports? popularity: And the silver goes to... | The Economist
> 
> Not watching games on tv, but actually going out to the ball park and being there.   So, apparently your opinion is not shared by a lot a MLB fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently my opinion certainly IS shared by a lot of Rays fans, and here's the evidence of it.  There are many threads in this forum, but if you look through the forum, you will find hundreds of posts in agreement  with me >>
> 
> http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/Tampa_Bay_Rays/ml-rays?redirCnt=1&=
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh, and there are always disgruntled fans when their teams sucks.  The true fans stick it out and enjoy the wins when they come.
Click to expand...


Dude, do you ever get anything right  in here ?  This isn't just about a team being good or bad.  It's about owners deliberately allowing their team to be weakened, all because of Money.

The Rays owner let go of Price - weakening # 1

They acquired Drew Smyly - weakening  # 2

They acquired Nick Stanley - weakening # 3

In 3 ways, the Rays took action to *lessen *their chances to get to the post season.  Unforgivable.


----------



## protectionist

Slyhunter said:


> My taxes should not be spent on your private enterprise. Business's should survive or fail based on consumer patronage and not government handouts.



You got 2 things wrong .  1.)  I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise.  2.) Handled properly, the teams will bring in profits, so netwise, there is nothing "spent"and no taxes necessary.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> My taxes should not be spent on your private enterprise. Business's should survive or fail based on consumer patronage and not government handouts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good point.
Click to expand...


To another thread, where it might have consistent with the topic.   Not this one , as I explained in the previous post (# 90)


----------



## Slyhunter

protectionist said:


> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> My taxes should not be spent on your private enterprise. Business's should survive or fail based on consumer patronage and not government handouts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You got 2 things wrong .  1.)  I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise.  2.) Handled properly, the teams will bring in profits, so netwise, there is nothing "spent"and no taxes necessary.
Click to expand...


Govt owned  nobody would be allowed to win in the name of fairness. If any team got too good they would break it up into the bad teams and visa versa. You don't really want that.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hundreds of posts online against almost 75 million fans buying tickets and attending a game.  lol
> 
> Now back to this "major harm" claim.     I can see being disappointed.  I can see not wanting to find a new hobby or new teams to watch.   But neither of those two things are "major harm" by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> Care to define the "major harm" the citizenry is experiencing?  (I'm guessing you won't)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".
> 
> 1.  Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.
> 
> 2.  For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.
> 
> 3.  You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it.  Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. No, you made some suppositions.  That changes nothing about the fact that almost 75 million fans attend games.  There are an average of over 30k fans attending 2,500 games across the US.  That is hardly "only the rich" going to the games.  When I have attended Braves games, the crowd was hardly the "upper crust" of the financial world.
> 
> 2. Hundreds of fans write on a message board, and there are thousands for each of them?  More supposition?  You certainly have no evidence to back that up.
> 
> 3. Yes, I have been staying on it.  Because, as usual, you refuse to actually answer.  You have not stated one single way that a fan has actually been harmed.  Being disappointed in a sports team or a sport in general is not "harm".  And it is certainly not "major harm".
Click to expand...


1.  Maybe you are supposing.  I'm not.  I'll say it again.  Mostly wealthier fans are the ones who go to games.  It costs more than what most people can afford >  FACT, not supposition.  And yes, your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.

2.  Only an idiot doesn't know that many more people don't speak out about their feelings than ones who do.. Only an idiot would talk about "evidence" for that.  The evidence is having a brain in your head.

3.  Of course it's major harm.  Again you harass.  More reports.  YOU KNOW the harm as I repeatedly have described it.  Either you don't define is as harm (which is YOUR problem not mine), or you're lying that you don't see it (which is more likely the case)


----------



## protectionist

​


Slyhunter said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slyhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> My taxes should not be spent on your private enterprise. Business's should survive or fail based on consumer patronage and not government handouts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You got 2 things wrong .  1.)  I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise.  2.) Handled properly, the teams will bring in profits, so netwise, there is nothing "spent"and no taxes necessary.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Govt owned  nobody would be allowed to win in the name of fairness. If any team got too good they would break it up into the bad teams and visa versa. You don't really want that.
Click to expand...


  This makes no sense.  The disparity of some teams being much better than others is something which is characteristic of the PRESENT situation, not what I suggest.
When the Tampa BAy Buccanears were owned by Hugh Culverhouse, a miser who refused to spend money to get good players, the team was horrible.  When the Glazers took it over, and DID spend much more money on the team, they won the Super Bowl.


----------



## Unkotare

protectionist said:


> Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years.



Aw, I was hoping you'd say "breathing." Ah well. As for your little socialist rant - too fucking bad. The owners of professional baseball teams are OWNERS. Go start up your own little communist league if you want. See how well you and your workers of the world unite on the diamond. Not too fucking well, I'd imagine.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".
> 
> 1.  Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.
> 
> 2.  For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.
> 
> 3.  You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it.  Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. No, you made some suppositions.  That changes nothing about the fact that almost 75 million fans attend games.  There are an average of over 30k fans attending 2,500 games across the US.  That is hardly "only the rich" going to the games.  When I have attended Braves games, the crowd was hardly the "upper crust" of the financial world.
> 
> 2. Hundreds of fans write on a message board, and there are thousands for each of them?  More supposition?  You certainly have no evidence to back that up.
> 
> 3. Yes, I have been staying on it.  Because, as usual, you refuse to actually answer.  You have not stated one single way that a fan has actually been harmed.  Being disappointed in a sports team or a sport in general is not "harm".  And it is certainly not "major harm".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1.  Maybe you are supposing.  I'm not.  I'll say it again.  Mostly wealthier fans are the ones who go to games.  It costs more than what most people can afford >  FACT, not supposition.  And yes, your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.
> 
> 2.  Only an idiot doesn't know that many more people don't speak out about their feelings than ones who do.. Only an idiot would talk about "evidence" for that.  The evidence is having a brain in your head.
> 
> 3.  Of course it's major harm.  Again you harass.  More reports.  YOU KNOW the harm as I repeatedly have described it.  Either you don't define is as harm (which is YOUR problem not mine), or you're lying that you don't see it (which is more likely the case)
Click to expand...


If you consider disappointment in a sporting event to be "major harm", then a hangnail must be a catastrophic event for you.

No, being disappointed in the changes in baseball is NOT "major harm", and you know it.

As for you reporting me, you have claimed to have done so numerous times.  Do you know the mods have not even mentioned it to me??   I went so far as to ask about it on a prior occasion, and a few other posters joined in the thread laughing.


----------



## Unkotare

Once again the headcase has fabricated his own reality and is demanding that everyone accept it as a given. The nut should be quarantined in the Conspiracy Forum where he can only affect the already infected.


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> Once again the headcase has fabricated his own reality and is demanding that everyone accept it as a given. The nut should be quarantined in the Conspiracy Forum where he can only affect the already infected.



Oh God!  Who left the cage door open ?  Sorry, Winterborn.  You'll have to be demoted. You're not USMB TROLL # 1. Not now that Uncletard has shown up.  He is, without a doubt USMB TROLL, Loon, Loose Wire # 1.  You'll have to settle for # 2, now.

As usual, crazy Uncletard, having escaped from the attic where his relatives had him chained up, now creates straw men ripe for attack.  No, tard, I didn't demand anything more than legislators demand acceptance of laws they pass.  Or doctors' orders prescribed for people to follow.  So tired of his immigration loonieness, the crazy uncle will enjoy his time of freedom out of the attic to rummage through other threads.  Pheeeew!!


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again the headcase has fabricated his own reality and is demanding that everyone accept it as a given. The nut should be quarantined in the Conspiracy Forum where he can only affect the already infected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh God!  Who left the cage door open ?  Sorry, Winterborn.  You'll have to be demoted. You're not USMB TROLL # 1. Not now that Uncletard has shown up.  He is, without a doubt USMB TROLL, Loon, Loose Wire # 1.  You'll have to settle for # 2, now.
> 
> As usual, crazy Uncletard, having escaped from the attic where his relatives had him chained up, now creates straw men ripe for attack.  No, tard, I didn't demand anything more than legislators demand acceptance of laws they pass.  Or doctors' orders prescribed for people to follow.  So tired of his immigration loonieness, the crazy uncle will enjoy his time of freedom out of the attic to rummage through other threads.  Pheeeew!!
Click to expand...


Sorry, your attempts to label me a troll have failed, yet again.

Once again, I have tried to engage you in a debate and you refuse.

But then, anyone who thinks being disappointed by a sports team constitutes "major harm" can't be playing with a full deck.


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aw, I was hoping you'd say "breathing." Ah well. As for your little socialist rant - too fucking bad. The owners of professional baseball teams are OWNERS. Go start up your own little communist league if you want. See how well you and your workers of the world unite on the diamond. Not too fucking well, I'd imagine.
Click to expand...


Not too well ?  HA HA.  Why not, oh hopelessly lost one ?  You thought the palyers need the greed freakos to throw strikes, hit home runs, steal bases, and catch fly balls ?
Since when is a money and people manipulator needed for that - other than in your long -lost mind ?   (what's left of it)


----------



## dblack

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.
> 
> Then it will belong to the fans.  Until then......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have started to do just that, by calling my County commisioners, and suggesting that 3 countys together buy the team.  Hopefully they'll know how to get the fans going on this, but it really is up to the county guys.  And this has already been done in MLB.  Cleveland I think it was.
Click to expand...


We could have sports as a fourth branch of government.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Once again the headcase has fabricated his own reality and is demanding that everyone accept it as a given. The nut should be quarantined in the Conspiracy Forum where he can only affect the already infected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh God!  Who left the cage door open ?  Sorry, Winterborn.  You'll have to be demoted. You're not USMB TROLL # 1. Not now that Uncletard has shown up.  He is, without a doubt USMB TROLL, Loon, Loose Wire # 1.  You'll have to settle for # 2, now.
> 
> As usual, crazy Uncletard, having escaped from the attic where his relatives had him chained up, now creates straw men ripe for attack.  No, tard, I didn't demand anything more than legislators demand acceptance of laws they pass.  Or doctors' orders prescribed for people to follow.  So tired of his immigration loonieness, the crazy uncle will enjoy his time of freedom out of the attic to rummage through other threads.  Pheeeew!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, your attempts to label me a troll have failed, yet again.
> 
> Once again, I have tried to engage you in a debate and you refuse.
> 
> But then, anyone who thinks being disappointed by a sports team constitutes "major harm" can't be playing with a full deck.
Click to expand...


Too soon for judgement.  As for you being a troll, that's the mods call, not yours, so stop trying to promote yourself.  You don't get to do that around here. 

And stop lying. You've been debated, and I would say that you've been trounced except you never said anything worthy of being called a "debate".  You never started.


----------



## dblack

Also, how does "un-privatize" differ from "socialize"?


----------



## protectionist

Here are some quotes of agreement with the OP from *another forum*, that the same OP is posted in >>

1.  "It is no longer about the game. It's all about the money."

2.  "Baseball sucks.  Thug athletes suck, baseball unions suck, juice boxing sucks, TV markets suck, slow gameplay sucks, fascist building of ballparks against taxpayer/voter's demands suck.  Every single fucking thing about baseball sucks.  Everything."

3.  "I don't watch baseball anyway.  It seems like a painful endeavor for a non big market fan anyhow, with no salary cap and all. Don't some small market teams go 15+ years sometimes without even making the playoffs?"

4.  "Born and raised in Pittsburgh, tell me about it."

5.  "It's not worth the money to try to watch anymore. Tickets are so outrageous, no one can afford to go to the games, and now you can't even watch many teams play on TV without paying extra to get the channel. High paid salaries and greediness has doomed National sports. and just think, all to become a used car salesman ala John Elway...."

6. _ "Being a Pirates fan seems like a masochistic endeavor."_
"We call them The Irates."

7. " Basically all professional sports have become big business and they are all suffering for the same reason. Meh, I don't watch except during the Olympics when players are acting out of pride rather than for money."

8.  "I played almost daily sandlot sports as a youngster and had some of the best times of my life. As a lifelong sports fan I have come to realize that the sandlot is the only pure form of sports , where they are played for pure and simple love of the game.
Two things ruin sports
1) Adults
2) Money and the more money the more the ruin"

I hate to say it, but often I find a distinct lower level of intelligence in this forum.  Sometimes we have to go to *another forum* just to get even a modicum of intelligent posting.  Then we also have whiny boys like Uncletard and Wintergreen who have had their asses handed to them by me so many times that they feel compelled to troll-harass me, just to save face, or muster up some self-respect.  Sad.  So sad.  Bwa ha ha ha ha.


----------



## protectionist

Defiant1 said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hundreds of posts online against almost 75 million fans buying tickets and attending a game.  lol
> 
> Now back to this "major harm" claim.     I can see being disappointed.  I can see not wanting to find a new hobby or new teams to watch.   But neither of those two things are "major harm" by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> Care to define the "major harm" the citizenry is experiencing?  (I'm guessing you won't)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".
> 
> 1.  Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.
> 
> 2.  For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.
> 
> 3.  You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it.  Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?
Click to expand...


What the hell is that goofy question supposed to mean ?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh God!  Who left the cage door open ?  Sorry, Winterborn.  You'll have to be demoted. You're not USMB TROLL # 1. Not now that Uncletard has shown up.  He is, without a doubt USMB TROLL, Loon, Loose Wire # 1.  You'll have to settle for # 2, now.
> 
> As usual, crazy Uncletard, having escaped from the attic where his relatives had him chained up, now creates straw men ripe for attack.  No, tard, I didn't demand anything more than legislators demand acceptance of laws they pass.  Or doctors' orders prescribed for people to follow.  So tired of his immigration loonieness, the crazy uncle will enjoy his time of freedom out of the attic to rummage through other threads.  Pheeeew!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, your attempts to label me a troll have failed, yet again.
> 
> Once again, I have tried to engage you in a debate and you refuse.
> 
> But then, anyone who thinks being disappointed by a sports team constitutes "major harm" can't be playing with a full deck.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Too soon for judgement.  As for you being a troll, that's the mods call, not yours, so stop trying to promote yourself.  You don't get to do that around here.
> 
> And stop lying. You've been debated, and I would say that you've been trounced except you never said anything worthy of being called a "debate".  You never started.
Click to expand...


LMAO!!!    I kept pressing for what "major harm" was done, and you stayed with the fact that you are disappointed in the way MLB has changed.

YOu have done nothing but demand that your disappointment result in the gov't taking over a private enterprise and steal billions of dollars worth of private property.

You have denied that baseball teams have a financial worth.

You have claimed the gov't should take over MLB in the interest of the safety of the citizens.  (and refused to say why it was unsafe now)

You have claimed that cheating the owners and the players out of billions of dollars was justified because hundreds of fans were writing angry posts online.

And whenever you started getting pressed for an answer, you went back to claiming to report me for harassment, and making snide remarks about the cigar in my pic.  (I think you claim to report people in the hopes thatthey will then be afraid to continue.  Sorry, doesn't work)

You haven't trounced anyone.  And despite the large variety of posters who join in this thread, not one agreed with your plan to rob the rightful owners of the teams.

You poor, poor man.  That disappointment is so great that you call it "major harm".

So tell us what is unsafe about MLB?   You want the gov't to take it over for the safety of the people.  What is unsafe???  (and don't try that tired old "I've already answered this, because that is a lie you've told once too often)


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> Defiant1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".
> 
> 1.  Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.
> 
> 2.  For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.
> 
> 3.  You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it.  Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell is that goofy question supposed to mean ?
Click to expand...


Because one of the things you are pissed off at MLB about is players moving from one team to another and free agency.  You keep ranting about players playing their entire career on one team, as if that means anything.   You buy a few tickets and watch some games on tv and think you should have a say in whether a player can move to another team or not???

lol    Talk about delusions of grandeur.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> Here are some quotes of agreement with the OP from *another forum*, that the same OP is posted in >>
> 
> 1.  "It is no longer about the game. It's all about the money."
> 
> 2.  "Baseball sucks.  Thug athletes suck, baseball unions suck, juice boxing sucks, TV markets suck, slow gameplay sucks, fascist building of ballparks against taxpayer/voter's demands suck.  Every single fucking thing about baseball sucks.  Everything."
> 
> 3.  "I don't watch baseball anyway.  It seems like a painful endeavor for a non big market fan anyhow, with no salary cap and all. Don't some small market teams go 15+ years sometimes without even making the playoffs?"
> 
> 4.  "Born and raised in Pittsburgh, tell me about it."
> 
> 5.  "It's not worth the money to try to watch anymore. Tickets are so outrageous, no one can afford to go to the games, and now you can't even watch many teams play on TV without paying extra to get the channel. High paid salaries and greediness has doomed National sports. and just think, all to become a used car salesman ala John Elway...."
> 
> 6. _ "Being a Pirates fan seems like a masochistic endeavor."_
> "We call them The Irates."
> 
> 7. " Basically all professional sports have become big business and they are all suffering for the same reason. Meh, I don't watch except during the Olympics when players are acting out of pride rather than for money."
> 
> 8.  "I played almost daily sandlot sports as a youngster and had some of the best times of my life. As a lifelong sports fan I have come to realize that the sandlot is the only pure form of sports , where they are played for pure and simple love of the game.
> Two things ruin sports
> 1) Adults
> 2) Money and the more money the more the ruin"
> 
> I hate to say it, but often I find a distinct lower level of intelligence in this forum.  Sometimes we have to go to *another forum* just to get even a modicum of intelligent posting.  Then we also have whiny boys like Uncletard and Wintergreen who have had their asses handed to them by me so many times that they feel compelled to troll-harass me, just to save face, or muster up some self-respect.  Sad.  So sad.  Bwa ha ha ha ha.



You have run from me in every thread we were in together.  

And your posting quotes from another forum may make you feel better.  But finding more childish rants and temper tantrums does not change the facts.

Tell us what is unsafe about MLB??


----------



## Unkotare

protectionist said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aw, I was hoping you'd say "breathing." Ah well. As for your little socialist rant - too fucking bad. The owners of professional baseball teams are OWNERS. Go start up your own little communist league if you want. See how well you and your workers of the world unite on the diamond. Not too fucking well, I'd imagine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not too well ?  HA HA.  Why not?
Click to expand...



Because empty-headed little socialist dreamers like you couldn't make a nose run, let alone a business of any kind. If capitalism bothers you so much, North Korea is thataway...


----------



## dblack

protectionist said:


> Defiant1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".
> 
> 1.  Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.
> 
> 2.  For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.
> 
> 3.  You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it.  Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What the hell is that goofy question supposed to mean ?
Click to expand...


Should they be 'allowed' to make money on their own? Or should they be required to get permission from their owners first?


----------



## HUGGY

protectionist said:


> Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years. I ceased to be a major league baseball fan. I started out as a kid rooting for the New York Yankees in the 1950s. After I moved to California in the late 70s, I became an Oakland As fan, and in the late 90s, I became a Tampa Bay Rays fan. But yesterday the private owners of the Rays caused me to drop the game of baseball from my life entirely, when they cut loose the Rays star pitcher, David Price, and his big salary, to Detroit, and pretended it was a trade. They got really nothing in return. In fact the 2 active players they got are more likely to hurt the Rays than help them.
> 
> The bottom line of this is that these guys (owners) are wrecking the game of baseball, that we fans have known and love and followed all our lives. And why ? Simple. Because to them, it isn't a game of baseball. It's a stock market. It's a profit and loss statement. A balance sheet, etc. These guys couldn't care less what happens to the team. They are looking at this from a MONEY perspective, period.
> 
> Older fans like myself remember the days back when it wasn't anything like this. There was no free agency for the players. Some of the greatest players ever to perform on a field (Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, etc.) played for one team only for 20 years. Teams were not revolving doors, where each year, fans wonder who their teams' players are.
> 
> In the case of the Rays, they are in a significant year. On June 10th, the team was 18 games under .500. Now they are right up in contention once again , and have the best record in baseball since June. Things are going great, and the fans are excited. And what happens ? Mr. Moneybags steps in and starts dismantling the foundations of the team (just to save money).
> 
> OK. He is a capitalist trying to make a profit. But the baseball team is much more than just his PROPERTY. It is a cultural entity in the area. The Rays are an institution in the Tampa bay area, and I'm sure it's the same with other teams in other places. What New York baseball fan my age will ever forget when the Giants and Dodgers left New York and went to the west coast ?.....leaving millions of fans heartbroken.
> 
> It is time to get baseball out of the hands of the moneychangers, and into the hands of the FANS, who care about baseball and its welfare. For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee, and that the Rays play 1/3 of their home games in each of those counties. It is critical to get baseball out of the hands of these dollar sharks, who probably don't know a curve ball, from a balk, from a sacrifice fly, ans are wrecking the game of professional baseball.



You start out claiming you are no longer a fan then reel off all this blah...blah  blah that a TRUE non fan would rather jam white hot ice picks in his eyes than endure...

A TRUE non-fan does not care what happens to baseball...

Your only real hope is that being old you will die soon and this stupidity will all be over...thankfully.


----------



## protectionist

dblack said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defiant1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is that goofy question supposed to mean ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Should they be 'allowed' to make money on their own? Or should they be required to get permission from their owners first?
Click to expand...


HA HA.  I don't know what THAT is supposed to mean either.  Maybe it would help if you would get more to the point,and use a few more words.  Your questions don't seem to make any sense.  Also, did you read the OP ?


----------



## protectionist

huggy said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> yesterday, i quit doing something that i have been doing for 60 years. I ceased to be a major league baseball fan. I started out as a kid rooting for the new york yankees in the 1950s. After i moved to california in the late 70s, i became an oakland as fan, and in the late 90s, i became a tampa bay rays fan. But yesterday the private owners of the rays caused me to drop the game of baseball from my life entirely, when they cut loose the rays star pitcher, david price, and his big salary, to detroit, and pretended it was a trade. They got really nothing in return. In fact the 2 active players they got are more likely to hurt the rays than help them.
> 
> The bottom line of this is that these guys (owners) are wrecking the game of baseball, that we fans have known and love and followed all our lives. And why ? Simple. Because to them, it isn't a game of baseball. It's a stock market. It's a profit and loss statement. A balance sheet, etc. These guys couldn't care less what happens to the team. They are looking at this from a money perspective, period.
> 
> Older fans like myself remember the days back when it wasn't anything like this. There was no free agency for the players. Some of the greatest players ever to perform on a field (ted williams, stan musial, mickey mantle, etc.) played for one team only for 20 years. Teams were not revolving doors, where each year, fans wonder who their teams' players are.
> 
> In the case of the rays, they are in a significant year. On june 10th, the team was 18 games under .500. Now they are right up in contention once again , and have the best record in baseball since june. Things are going great, and the fans are excited. And what happens ? Mr. Moneybags steps in and starts dismantling the foundations of the team (just to save money).
> 
> Ok. He is a capitalist trying to make a profit. But the baseball team is much more than just his property. It is a cultural entity in the area. The rays are an institution in the tampa bay area, and i'm sure it's the same with other teams in other places. What new york baseball fan my age will ever forget when the giants and dodgers left new york and went to the west coast ?.....leaving millions of fans heartbroken.
> 
> It is time to get baseball out of the hands of the moneychangers, and into the hands of the fans, who care about baseball and its welfare. For the rays (similar scenario for other teams), i suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of pinellas, hillsborough, and manatee, and that the rays play 1/3 of their home games in each of those counties. It is critical to get baseball out of the hands of these dollar sharks, who probably don't know a curve ball, from a balk, from a sacrifice fly, ans are wrecking the game of professional baseball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you start out claiming you are no longer a fan then reel off all this blah...blah  blah that a true non fan would rather jam white hot ice picks in his eyes than endure...
> 
> A true non-fan does not care what happens to baseball...
> 
> Your only real hope is that being old you will die soon and this stupidity will all be over...thankfully.
Click to expand...


*go fuck yourself, scumbag/imbecile. *:d


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aw, I was hoping you'd say "breathing." Ah well. As for your little socialist rant - too fucking bad. The owners of professional baseball teams are OWNERS. Go start up your own little communist league if you want. See how well you and your workers of the world unite on the diamond. Not too fucking well, I'd imagine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not too well ?  HA HA.  Why not?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Because empty-headed little socialist dreamers like you couldn't make a nose run, let alone a business of any kind. If capitalism bothers you so much, North Korea is thataway...
Click to expand...


I owned my own business for 12 years, after starting it on $50, and expanded it to 3 branch offices in 3 counties.  It was successful up to the time I chose to sell it.  You're an IDIOT, as always.


----------



## Pogo

WinterBorn said:


> Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.
> 
> Then it will belong to the fans.  Until then......



Hey, the Packers did it.


----------



## Pogo

boedicca said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want the gov't to step in and steal major league basebal teams from their rightful owners and give them to some sort of halfassed citizen consortium??
> 
> You want to cheat the team owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars, and take their property, against their will and by force, all because you don't like the way they are playing the game now??
> 
> I have seen some suggestions for temper tantrums, but this one takes the cake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'd like to see govt step in  and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans.  The game of pro baseball.  And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ?  What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.
> 
> Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I _"don't like the way they are playing the game now"_.  YOU KNOW why.  It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
> And it's not a temper tantrum.  It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ?  )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Owners stole baseball from the fans?
> ?
> Really?  When did the fans own and bankroll the teams that the owners stole?
Click to expand...


Nah, he's right.  Baseball Inc. has stolen the _spirit_ of the game.  I literally cannot watch so much as an individual play highlight without being forced to sit through a commercial.  And as far as buying a ticket, forget it -- I could buy a set of tires for less.  It's become all about greed, and that's not what the Game is.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, your attempts to label me a troll have failed, yet again.
> 
> Once again, I have tried to engage you in a debate and you refuse.
> 
> But then, anyone who thinks being disappointed by a sports team constitutes "major harm" can't be playing with a full deck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too soon for judgement.  As for you being a troll, that's the mods call, not yours, so stop trying to promote yourself.  You don't get to do that around here.
> 
> And stop lying. You've been debated, and I would say that you've been trounced except you never said anything worthy of being called a "debate".  You never started.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!    I kept pressing for what "major harm" was done, and you stayed with the fact that you are disappointed in the way MLB has changed.
> 
> YOu have done nothing but demand that your disappointment result in the gov't taking over a private enterprise and steal billions of dollars worth of private property.
> 
> You have denied that baseball teams have a financial worth.
> 
> You have claimed the gov't should take over MLB in the interest of the safety of the citizens.  (and refused to say why it was unsafe now)
> 
> You have claimed that cheating the owners and the players out of billions of dollars was justified because hundreds of fans were writing angry posts online.
> 
> And whenever you started getting pressed for an answer, you went back to claiming to report me for harassment, and making snide remarks about the cigar in my pic.  (I think you claim to report people in the hopes thatthey will then be afraid to continue.  Sorry, doesn't work)
> 
> You haven't trounced anyone.  And despite the large variety of posters who join in this thread, not one agreed with your plan to rob the rightful owners of the teams.
> 
> You poor, poor man.  That disappointment is so great that you call it "major harm".
> 
> So tell us what is unsafe about MLB?   You want the gov't to take it over for the safety of the people.  What is unsafe???  (and don't try that tired old "I've already answered this, because that is a lie you've told once too often)
Click to expand...


I know what I've said, and your false proclamations don't change anything.  I need not say anything more than what I said in the OP, and you haven't said ANYTHING.

Now what's all this drivel about safety ?  I haven't said anything about safety.  That's your latest troll tactic ? Changing the subject ?  

And you know damn well what the major harm is so don't try that tired old "you haven't answerd my question" bullshit, because that is a lie you've told once too often.

  You see any harm here, huh ?  HA HA HA.  Oh no, a Cy Young award-winning all-star is traded for 2 LOSERS, and you see no harm.  You don't lie very well.


----------



## protectionist

Pogo said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.
> 
> Then it will belong to the fans.  Until then......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, the Packers did it.
Click to expand...


That's what I've been suggesting to him.  Then he suggests it back to me (as in your quote), and then complains that I don't have a good idea.  This is what trolling looks like.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some quotes of agreement with the OP from *another forum*, that the same OP is posted in >>
> 
> 1.  "It is no longer about the game. It's all about the money."
> 
> 2.  "Baseball sucks.  Thug athletes suck, baseball unions suck, juice boxing sucks, TV markets suck, slow gameplay sucks, fascist building of ballparks against taxpayer/voter's demands suck.  Every single fucking thing about baseball sucks.  Everything."
> 
> 3.  "I don't watch baseball anyway.  It seems like a painful endeavor for a non big market fan anyhow, with no salary cap and all. Don't some small market teams go 15+ years sometimes without even making the playoffs?"
> 
> 4.  "Born and raised in Pittsburgh, tell me about it."
> 
> 5.  "It's not worth the money to try to watch anymore. Tickets are so outrageous, no one can afford to go to the games, and now you can't even watch many teams play on TV without paying extra to get the channel. High paid salaries and greediness has doomed National sports. and just think, all to become a used car salesman ala John Elway...."
> 
> 6. _ "Being a Pirates fan seems like a masochistic endeavor."_
> "We call them The Irates."
> 
> 7. " Basically all professional sports have become big business and they are all suffering for the same reason. Meh, I don't watch except during the Olympics when players are acting out of pride rather than for money."
> 
> 8.  "I played almost daily sandlot sports as a youngster and had some of the best times of my life. As a lifelong sports fan I have come to realize that the sandlot is the only pure form of sports , where they are played for pure and simple love of the game.
> Two things ruin sports
> 1) Adults
> 2) Money and the more money the more the ruin"
> 
> I hate to say it, but often I find a distinct lower level of intelligence in this forum.  Sometimes we have to go to *another forum* just to get even a modicum of intelligent posting.  Then we also have whiny boys like Uncletard and Wintergreen who have had their asses handed to them by me so many times that they feel compelled to troll-harass me, just to save face, or muster up some self-respect.  Sad.  So sad.  Bwa ha ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have run from me in every thread we were in together.
> 
> And your posting quotes from another forum may make you feel better.  But finding more childish rants and temper tantrums does not change the facts.
> 
> Tell us what is unsafe about MLB??
Click to expand...


I have run from you, huh ? HA HA HA.  I rub from you, cigar face, like I run from a ladybug.  My posting quotes from another forum does make me feel a little better. But it also shows what an idiot you are, and a few of your pitiful cheerleaders who showed up here, who have even less of a clue that you.

And what should I tell you what is unsafe about MLB?  That's off topic.  I don't go around posting off topic.  Mostly just trolls like you do that.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too soon for judgement.  As for you being a troll, that's the mods call, not yours, so stop trying to promote yourself.  You don't get to do that around here.
> 
> And stop lying. You've been debated, and I would say that you've been trounced except you never said anything worthy of being called a "debate".  You never started.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!!    I kept pressing for what "major harm" was done, and you stayed with the fact that you are disappointed in the way MLB has changed.
> 
> YOu have done nothing but demand that your disappointment result in the gov't taking over a private enterprise and steal billions of dollars worth of private property.
> 
> You have denied that baseball teams have a financial worth.
> 
> You have claimed the gov't should take over MLB in the interest of the safety of the citizens.  (and refused to say why it was unsafe now)
> 
> You have claimed that cheating the owners and the players out of billions of dollars was justified because hundreds of fans were writing angry posts online.
> 
> And whenever you started getting pressed for an answer, you went back to claiming to report me for harassment, and making snide remarks about the cigar in my pic.  (I think you claim to report people in the hopes thatthey will then be afraid to continue.  Sorry, doesn't work)
> 
> You haven't trounced anyone.  And despite the large variety of posters who join in this thread, not one agreed with your plan to rob the rightful owners of the teams.
> 
> You poor, poor man.  That disappointment is so great that you call it "major harm".
> 
> So tell us what is unsafe about MLB?   You want the gov't to take it over for the safety of the people.  What is unsafe???  (and don't try that tired old "I've already answered this, because that is a lie you've told once too often)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know what I've said, and your false proclamations don't change anything.  I need not say anything more than what I said in the OP, and you haven't said ANYTHING.
> 
> Now what's all this drivel about safety ?  I haven't said anything about safety.  That's your latest troll tactic ? Changing the subject ?
> 
> And you know damn well what the major harm is so don't try that tired old "you haven't answerd my question" bullshit, because that is a lie you've told once too often.
> 
> You see any harm here, huh ?  HA HA HA.  Oh no, a Cy Young award-winning all-star is traded for 2 LOSERS, and you see no harm.  You don't lie very well.
Click to expand...


Oh no!  A Cy Young award winner traded for 2 losers???    Oh the pain you must be suffering!!

Bullshit.  It is NOT major harm.   Your team sucks and you are pissed off about it.  Fine.  But don't lie and say it is "major harm" to anyone in any real way.  That is simply a lie.

And your idea that players not get free agency?   How is that a plus??  You want players to be forced to play for one team for as long as they play?   Or only get to move to a new team when they get traded??   Yeah, that is taking away the freedoms of the players.  Now THEY would have a claim of major harm.

You want players to play for between $100k and $300k a year.  That is, at the best, $200k less than the minimum pay for players now.  Costing someone (at the absolute LEAST) $200k a year is Major harm.

Owners have invested millions of dollars of their money into these teams.  You want to steal them.   Losses like that would be considered Major harm.

But you have not suffered major harm.  And if you think being mad because you are a fan of a team that did stupid shit constitutes major harm, you are even more delusional than I thought.   (and you saying you would take my cigar away and put it out in my drink showed you to be seriously delusional)


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some quotes of agreement with the OP from *another forum*, that the same OP is posted in >>
> 
> 1.  "It is no longer about the game. It's all about the money."
> 
> 2.  "Baseball sucks.  Thug athletes suck, baseball unions suck, juice boxing sucks, TV markets suck, slow gameplay sucks, fascist building of ballparks against taxpayer/voter's demands suck.  Every single fucking thing about baseball sucks.  Everything."
> 
> 3.  "I don't watch baseball anyway.  It seems like a painful endeavor for a non big market fan anyhow, with no salary cap and all. Don't some small market teams go 15+ years sometimes without even making the playoffs?"
> 
> 4.  "Born and raised in Pittsburgh, tell me about it."
> 
> 5.  "It's not worth the money to try to watch anymore. Tickets are so outrageous, no one can afford to go to the games, and now you can't even watch many teams play on TV without paying extra to get the channel. High paid salaries and greediness has doomed National sports. and just think, all to become a used car salesman ala John Elway...."
> 
> 6. _ "Being a Pirates fan seems like a masochistic endeavor."_
> "We call them The Irates."
> 
> 7. " Basically all professional sports have become big business and they are all suffering for the same reason. Meh, I don't watch except during the Olympics when players are acting out of pride rather than for money."
> 
> 8.  "I played almost daily sandlot sports as a youngster and had some of the best times of my life. As a lifelong sports fan I have come to realize that the sandlot is the only pure form of sports , where they are played for pure and simple love of the game.
> Two things ruin sports
> 1) Adults
> 2) Money and the more money the more the ruin"
> 
> I hate to say it, but often I find a distinct lower level of intelligence in this forum.  Sometimes we have to go to *another forum* just to get even a modicum of intelligent posting.  Then we also have whiny boys like Uncletard and Wintergreen who have had their asses handed to them by me so many times that they feel compelled to troll-harass me, just to save face, or muster up some self-respect.  Sad.  So sad.  Bwa ha ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have run from me in every thread we were in together.
> 
> And your posting quotes from another forum may make you feel better.  But finding more childish rants and temper tantrums does not change the facts.
> 
> Tell us what is unsafe about MLB??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have run from you, huh ? HA HA HA.  I rub from you, cigar face, like I run from a ladybug.  My posting quotes from another forum does make me feel a little better. But it also shows what an idiot you are, and a few of your pitiful cheerleaders who showed up here, who have even less of a clue that you.
> 
> And what should I tell you what is unsafe about MLB?  That's off topic.  I don't go around posting off topic.  Mostly just trolls like you do that.
Click to expand...


You don't go around posting off topic?   lmao

Exactly what part of the topic involves my cigar?   You mentioned that 2 or 3 times.

And yes, you should tell me what is unsafe about MLB.  You claim the citizens of the USA are suffering "major harm".  How can that not be a safety issue?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players.
> 
> Then it will belong to the fans.  Until then......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, the Packers did it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what I've been suggesting to him.  Then he suggests it back to me (as in your quote), and then complains that I don't have a good idea.  This is what trolling looks like.
Click to expand...


That is a lie.   You have not been suggesting anything even close to what happened with the Packers.  You have been demanding that the gov't take over baseball.

The Packers got fans together and each fan put up money to buy the team.

Fans are not the same as the gov't.  At least not in this reality.  Now the reality where you live may be different on this topic too.


----------



## protectionist

Pogo said:


> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'd like to see govt step in  and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans.  The game of pro baseball.  And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ?  What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.
> 
> Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I _"don't like the way they are playing the game now"_.  YOU KNOW why.  It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
> And it's not a temper tantrum.  It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ?  )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Owners stole baseball from the fans?
> ?
> Really?  When did the fans own and bankroll the teams that the owners stole?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, he's right.  Baseball Inc. has stolen the _spirit_ of the game.  I literally cannot watch so much as an individual play highlight without being forced to sit through a commercial.  And as far as buying a ticket, forget it -- I could buy a set of tires for less.  It's become all about greed, and that's not what the Game is.
Click to expand...


Of course.  Exactly right.  Ignore YesterdayBorn.  He's just a troll who follows me around from thread to thread, and trolls me.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defiant1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is that goofy question supposed to mean ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because one of the things you are pissed off at MLB about is players moving from one team to another and free agency.  You keep ranting about players playing their entire career on one team, as if that means anything.   You buy a few tickets and watch some games on tv and think you should have a say in whether a player can move to another team or not???
Click to expand...


Perfect example of how clueless you are on this issue. "As if  that means anything" ?   You obviously don't know what millions of fans know.  That of course it means something.  It means that the players aren't being tossed around like a bunch of baseball cards.  They stayed with one team, where their loyal fans could keep enjoying watching them and rooting for them.  And it means that right when their team was in contention for a spot in the playoffs, that wasn't ruined by some money hustler making deals that significantly WEAKEN the team. And that guy is who you think should have the say about moving players around ?  Sheeeeesh!!

  You obviously don't know what you're talking about here.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Owners stole baseball from the fans?
> ?
> Really?  When did the fans own and bankroll the teams that the owners stole?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, he's right.  Baseball Inc. has stolen the _spirit_ of the game.  I literally cannot watch so much as an individual play highlight without being forced to sit through a commercial.  And as far as buying a ticket, forget it -- I could buy a set of tires for less.  It's become all about greed, and that's not what the Game is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.  Exactly right.  Ignore YesterdayBorn.  He's just a troll who follows me around from thread to thread, and trolls me.
Click to expand...


As you would say.... OFF TOPIC!!!

But let me challenge you, what other thread have I "followed" you to?    See?   Yet another lie.   If lying to flatter yourself is what you have to do, you are a sad example.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> What the hell is that goofy question supposed to mean ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because one of the things you are pissed off at MLB about is players moving from one team to another and free agency.  You keep ranting about players playing their entire career on one team, as if that means anything.   You buy a few tickets and watch some games on tv and think you should have a say in whether a player can move to another team or not???
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Perfect example of how clueless you are on this issue. "As if  that means anything" ?   You obviously don't know what millions of fans know.  That of course it means something.  It means that the players aren't being tossed around like a bunch of baseball cards.  They stayed with one team, where their loyal fans could keep enjoying watching them and rooting for them.  And it means that right when their team was in contention for a spot in the playoffs, that wasn't ruined by some money hustler making deals that significantly WEAKEN the team. And that guy is who you think should have the say about moving players around ?  Sheeeeesh!!
> 
> You obviously don't know what you're talking about here.
Click to expand...


I know that YOU talked about free agency as if it were part of the problem.

And yes, when you pay the salaries of the players, you get to decide which ones you want and which you want to trade.  

Keep lying.  It is the only way you have anything to post.


----------



## Unkotare

WinterBorn said:


> Exactly what part of the topic involves my cigar?   You mentioned that 2 or 3 times.




Careful, he may be 'fixating' on you, if you know what I mean. Sometimes a cigar is...


----------



## Unkotare

Some demented old fool on this thread is posting like a disappointed 7 year-old child.


----------



## WinterBorn

Unkotare said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what part of the topic involves my cigar?   You mentioned that 2 or 3 times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Careful, he may be 'fixating' on you, if you know what I mean. Sometimes a cigar is...
Click to expand...


He is delusional and a compulsive liar, nothing more.  His rants about reporting people for stalking are only to get them to quit posting.  He does that when he has no argument.  If he thinks he has an argument he will respond to the same questions over and over, and he will continue to rant.

I should be more sympathetic to his issues, but I have a low tolerance for people who throw fits to get their way and I don't suffer fools lightly.


----------



## Pogo

protectionist said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> boedicca said:
> 
> 
> 
> Owners stole baseball from the fans?
> ?
> Really?  When did the fans own and bankroll the teams that the owners stole?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, he's right.  Baseball Inc. has stolen the _spirit_ of the game.  I literally cannot watch so much as an individual play highlight without being forced to sit through a commercial.  And as far as buying a ticket, forget it -- I could buy a set of tires for less.  It's become all about greed, and that's not what the Game is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course.  Exactly right.  Ignore YesterdayBorn.  He's just a troll who follows me around from thread to thread, and trolls me.
Click to expand...


WinterBorn is no troll; he's one of the most intelligent, logical and even tempered posters we have.  You're picking your own scab here.

You start out with a fair point about the commercialization of Baseball, with which I agree.  But your way of dealing with it has all the impact and accuracy of a Ryne Duren fastball if you get my drift.

So you lost David Price.  BFD.  Get used to your new rotation; you don't own David Price.  He was going to free agency anyway.  Look at it this way; some rookie just got an opening.  And he could be better than David Price.  Get over it already.  You're making your team look like the Tampon Bay Whiners.


----------



## WinterBorn

Pogo said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, he's right.  Baseball Inc. has stolen the _spirit_ of the game.  I literally cannot watch so much as an individual play highlight without being forced to sit through a commercial.  And as far as buying a ticket, forget it -- I could buy a set of tires for less.  It's become all about greed, and that's not what the Game is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Exactly right.  Ignore YesterdayBorn.  He's just a troll who follows me around from thread to thread, and trolls me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WinterBorn is no troll; he's one of the most intelligent, logical and even tempered posters we have.  You're picking your own scab here.
> 
> You start out with a fair point about the commercialization of Baseball, with which I agree.  But your way of dealing with it has all the impact and accuracy of a Ryne Duren fastball if you get my drift.
> 
> So you lost David Price.  BFD.  Get used to your new rotation; you don't own David Price.  He was going to free agency anyway.  Look at it this way; some rookie just got an opening.  And he could be better than David Price.  Get over it already.  You're making your team look like the Tampon Bay Whiners.
Click to expand...


Thank you, Pogo.   I am flattered.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> Unkotare said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly what part of the topic involves my cigar?   You mentioned that 2 or 3 times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Careful, he may be 'fixating' on you, if you know what I mean. Sometimes a cigar is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He is delusional and a compulsive liar, nothing more.  His rants about reporting people for stalking are only to get them to quit posting.  He does that when he has no argument.  If he thinks he has an argument he will respond to the same questions over and over, and he will continue to rant.
> 
> I should be more sympathetic to his issues, but I have a low tolerance for people who throw fits to get their way and I don't suffer fools lightly.
Click to expand...


YOU are "delusional and a compulsive liar".  If I thought you were worth it, I'd spend some time listing all you lies and simple inabilities to perceive common sense ideas, although some of it is deceit and some is stupidity.  Bottom line is, you're a jerk and just not worth spending time with.  But you can keep on trolling and stabbing at me, with the knowledge that this worthless forum will allow fools like you to do that.


----------



## protectionist

Pogo said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, he's right.  Baseball Inc. has stolen the _spirit_ of the game.  I literally cannot watch so much as an individual play highlight without being forced to sit through a commercial.  And as far as buying a ticket, forget it -- I could buy a set of tires for less.  It's become all about greed, and that's not what the Game is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Exactly right.  Ignore YesterdayBorn.  He's just a troll who follows me around from thread to thread, and trolls me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> WinterBorn is no troll; he's one of the most intelligent, logical and even tempered posters we have.  You're picking your own scab here.
> 
> You start out with a fair point about the commercialization of Baseball, with which I agree.  But your way of dealing with it has all the impact and accuracy of a Ryne Duren fastball if you get my drift.
> 
> So you lost David Price.  BFD.  Get used to your new rotation; you don't own David Price.  He was going to free agency anyway.  Look at it this way; some rookie just got an opening.  And he could be better than David Price.  Get over it already.  You're making your team look like the Tampon Bay Whiners.
Click to expand...


NO.  I most certainly DON'T look at it that way.  The way I look at is is the same way I looked at it in the the 1950's and 1960's before free agency idiocy took hold, and before the money hustlers hijacked the game of MLB, which you are either not old enough to comprehend the difference, or if you are old enough, you're just not focused in.
   Whatever the case, you're programmed to play right into the hands of the owners who are wrecking the game, from what it always was before they got their greedy hands into it.  Look at what you're saying. _ "free agency" ? "Some rookie" ?  "could be" ?_ 

EARTH TO POGO:  You don't deal away a Cy Young award winning All Star for a losing pitcher (6 and 10) and a .128 hitter.  You don't talk about "could be" alongside a player like David Price (unless you're a mouthpiece for the money hustlers)

  So if you're comfortable with rooting for a team whose owner takes actions that weaken/harm the team (cause it to lose more games), and as you root and strive to see the team get better, the owner is making it worse, then you're free to keep on being a fan for that team.  I see that as stupidity, which does no one any good except those greed freak owners, which is why I have turned my attention now to my local minor league team (Tampa Yankees).  To each his own.

As for WinterBorn, I don't need coaching to know what kind of poster he is.  I know exactly his angle, and it's a far cry from what you said.

As for my way of dealing with  the commercialization of Baseball, it is for it to be UNcommercialized, and reorganized under a community control scenario, which benefits the fans, instead of a few greedy money hustlers.  I'd say that is perfectly accurate. If you don't, I can live with that.  Not my problem.  And I laugh at you calling it inaccurate, and YesterdayBorn calling it "no argument".  And I don't mind if I  look like a "whiner", to those who appear to look like suck-ups to the money freak hijackers of MLB.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course.  Exactly right.  Ignore YesterdayBorn.  He's just a troll who follows me around from thread to thread, and trolls me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn is no troll; he's one of the most intelligent, logical and even tempered posters we have.  You're picking your own scab here.
> 
> You start out with a fair point about the commercialization of Baseball, with which I agree.  But your way of dealing with it has all the impact and accuracy of a Ryne Duren fastball if you get my drift.
> 
> So you lost David Price.  BFD.  Get used to your new rotation; you don't own David Price.  He was going to free agency anyway.  Look at it this way; some rookie just got an opening.  And he could be better than David Price.  Get over it already.  You're making your team look like the Tampon Bay Whiners.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NO.  I most certainly DON'T look at it that way.  The way I look at is is the same way I looked at it in the the 1950's and 1960's before free agency idiocy took hold, and before the money hustlers hijacked the game of MLB, which you are either not old enough to comprehend the difference, or if you are old enough, you're just not focused in.
> Whatever the case, you're programmed to play right into the hands of the owners who are wrecking the game, from what it always was before they got their greedy hands into it.  Look at what you're saying. _ "free agency" ? "Some rookie" ?  "could be" ?_
> 
> EARTH TO POGO:  You don't deal away a Cy Young award winning All Star for a losing pitcher (6 and 10) and a .128 hitter.  You don't talk about "could be" alongside a player like David Price (unless you're a mouthpiece for the money hustlers)
> 
> So if you're comfortable with rooting for a team whose owner takes actions that weaken/harm the team (cause it to lose more games), and as you root and strive to see the team get better, the owner is making it worse, then you're free to keep on being a fan for that team.  I see that as stupidity, which does no one any good except those greed freak owners, which is why I have turned my attention now to my local minor league team (Tampa Yankees).  To each his own.
> 
> As for WinterBorn, I don't need coaching to know what kind of poster he is.  I know exactly his angle, and it's a far cry from what you said.
> 
> As for my way of dealing with  the commercialization of Baseball, it is for it to be UNcommercialized, and reorganized under a community control scenario, which benefits the fans, instead of a few greedy money hustlers.  I'd say that is perfectly accurate. If you don't, I can live with that.  Not my problem.  And I laugh at you calling it inaccurate, and YesterdayBorn calling it "no argument".  And I don't mind if I  look like a "whiner", to those who appear to look like suck-ups to the money freak hijackers of MLB.
Click to expand...


You know my angle??   LMAO!!   My only angle is to call you on your lies and to ridicule your plan for the gov't to steal private property for your entertainment.

But you keep flailing around trying to find a point.  So far, you have none.  Yes, I get that you aren't happy with MLB.  If that is the worst problem you have, your life must be some kinda cakewalk.


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> Some demented old fool on this thread is posting like a disappointed 7 year-old child.



Get back in your attic, crazy uncle.  And get your relatives to supply some new chains for you, to replace those old rusty ones you broke out of.  I could supply quotes, from the many posters who have told you what you are in this forum, but that's already quite well known, to all but the most ignorant around here.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because one of the things you are pissed off at MLB about is players moving from one team to another and free agency.  You keep ranting about players playing their entire career on one team, as if that means anything.   You buy a few tickets and watch some games on tv and think you should have a say in whether a player can move to another team or not???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect example of how clueless you are on this issue. "As if  that means anything" ?   You obviously don't know what millions of fans know.  That of course it means something.  It means that the players aren't being tossed around like a bunch of baseball cards.  They stayed with one team, where their loyal fans could keep enjoying watching them and rooting for them.  And it means that right when their team was in contention for a spot in the playoffs, that wasn't ruined by some money hustler making deals that significantly WEAKEN the team. And that guy is who you think should have the say about moving players around ?  Sheeeeesh!!
> 
> You obviously don't know what you're talking about here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know that YOU talked about free agency as if it were part of the problem.
> 
> And yes, when you pay the salaries of the players, you get to decide which ones you want and which you want to trade.
Click to expand...


Of course it's part of the problem, YesterdayBorn.   And why repeat to me the current idiotic scenario of money-based baseball ?  Sure, that's how it works.  Exactly what we need to replace with something that absolutely does NOT work that way.  Get it ?


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogo said:
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn is no troll; he's one of the most intelligent, logical and even tempered posters we have.  You're picking your own scab here.
> 
> You start out with a fair point about the commercialization of Baseball, with which I agree.  But your way of dealing with it has all the impact and accuracy of a Ryne Duren fastball if you get my drift.
> 
> So you lost David Price.  BFD.  Get used to your new rotation; you don't own David Price.  He was going to free agency anyway.  Look at it this way; some rookie just got an opening.  And he could be better than David Price.  Get over it already.  You're making your team look like the Tampon Bay Whiners.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO.  I most certainly DON'T look at it that way.  The way I look at is is the same way I looked at it in the the 1950's and 1960's before free agency idiocy took hold, and before the money hustlers hijacked the game of MLB, which you are either not old enough to comprehend the difference, or if you are old enough, you're just not focused in.
> Whatever the case, you're programmed to play right into the hands of the owners who are wrecking the game, from what it always was before they got their greedy hands into it.  Look at what you're saying. _ "free agency" ? "Some rookie" ?  "could be" ?_
> 
> EARTH TO POGO:  You don't deal away a Cy Young award winning All Star for a losing pitcher (6 and 10) and a .128 hitter.  You don't talk about "could be" alongside a player like David Price (unless you're a mouthpiece for the money hustlers)
> 
> So if you're comfortable with rooting for a team whose owner takes actions that weaken/harm the team (cause it to lose more games), and as you root and strive to see the team get better, the owner is making it worse, then you're free to keep on being a fan for that team.  I see that as stupidity, which does no one any good except those greed freak owners, which is why I have turned my attention now to my local minor league team (Tampa Yankees).  To each his own.
> 
> As for WinterBorn, I don't need coaching to know what kind of poster he is.  I know exactly his angle, and it's a far cry from what you said.
> 
> As for my way of dealing with  the commercialization of Baseball, it is for it to be UNcommercialized, and reorganized under a community control scenario, which benefits the fans, instead of a few greedy money hustlers.  I'd say that is perfectly accurate. If you don't, I can live with that.  Not my problem.  And I laugh at you calling it inaccurate, and YesterdayBorn calling it "no argument".  And I don't mind if I  look like a "whiner", to those who appear to look like suck-ups to the money freak hijackers of MLB.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You know my angle??   LMAO!!   My only angle is to call you on your lies and to ridicule your plan for the gov't to steal private property for your entertainment.
> 
> But you keep flailing around trying to find a point.  So far, you have none.  Yes, I get that you aren't happy with MLB.  If that is the worst problem you have, your life must be some kinda cakewalk.
Click to expand...


YOU KNOW what my point is, as I've been posting all through the thread in including my previous 2 posts right before this.  I now call on you to show ONE single instance where I have lied about anything (and do it without lying).  But even if you don't lie in this challenge I'm giving you, I might just look up some of your lies, and present them to you, if you would like that constructive criticism.  At your service.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have run from me in every thread we were in together.
> 
> And your posting quotes from another forum may make you feel better.  But finding more childish rants and temper tantrums does not change the facts.
> 
> Tell us what is unsafe about MLB??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have run from you, huh ? HA HA HA.  I rub from you, cigar face, like I run from a ladybug.  My posting quotes from another forum does make me feel a little better. But it also shows what an idiot you are, and a few of your pitiful cheerleaders who showed up here, who have even less of a clue that you.
> 
> And what should I tell you what is unsafe about MLB?  That's off topic.  I don't go around posting off topic.  Mostly just trolls like you do that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You don't go around posting off topic?   lmao
> 
> Exactly what part of the topic involves my cigar?   You mentioned that 2 or 3 times.
> 
> And yes, you should tell me what is unsafe about MLB.  You claim the citizens of the USA are suffering "major harm".  How can that not be a safety issue?
Click to expand...


HA HA  HA!!  What an absolutely dumb question.  Good lord.  I actually feel a bit silly lowering myself to dignify it with a response.

EARTH TO YESTERDAYBORN:  There are scores of ways of defining "harms", all having nothing to do with safety.  Safety refers to physical injury harm to people.  

Here's a few examples of major harm, not involving safety >>  

1.  being sued and losing

2.  being burglarized and losing valuable things

3.  having your home or car vandalized

4.  illegal aliens taking millions of jobs in the US, while millions of Americans are unemployed

That's enough talking to you (too much in fact).  I now turn my attention to other threads involving more serious matters (ISIS, Hamas, etc)


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have run from you, huh ? HA HA HA.  I rub from you, cigar face, like I run from a ladybug.  My posting quotes from another forum does make me feel a little better. But it also shows what an idiot you are, and a few of your pitiful cheerleaders who showed up here, who have even less of a clue that you.
> 
> And what should I tell you what is unsafe about MLB?  That's off topic.  I don't go around posting off topic.  Mostly just trolls like you do that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't go around posting off topic?   lmao
> 
> Exactly what part of the topic involves my cigar?   You mentioned that 2 or 3 times.
> 
> And yes, you should tell me what is unsafe about MLB.  You claim the citizens of the USA are suffering "major harm".  How can that not be a safety issue?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HA HA  HA!!  What an absolutely dumb question.  Good lord.  I actually feel a bit silly lowering myself to dignify it with a response.
> 
> EARTH TO YESTERDAYBORN:  There are scores of ways of defining "harms", all having nothing to do with safety.  Safety refers to physical injury harm to people.
> 
> Here's a few examples of major harm, not involving safety >>
> 
> 1.  being sued and losing
> 
> 2.  being burglarized and losing valuable things
> 
> 3.  having your home or car vandalized
> 
> 4.  illegal aliens taking millions of jobs in the US, while millions of Americans are unemployed
> 
> That's enough talking to you (too much in fact).  I now turn my attention to other threads involving more serious matters (ISIS, Hamas, etc)
Click to expand...


Funny that you can list all those harms, but you still have not defined anything in modern baseball that constitutes "major harm" to the citizens.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> NO.  I most certainly DON'T look at it that way.  The way I look at is is the same way I looked at it in the the 1950's and 1960's before free agency idiocy took hold, and before the money hustlers hijacked the game of MLB, which you are either not old enough to comprehend the difference, or if you are old enough, you're just not focused in.
> Whatever the case, you're programmed to play right into the hands of the owners who are wrecking the game, from what it always was before they got their greedy hands into it.  Look at what you're saying. _ "free agency" ? "Some rookie" ?  "could be" ?_
> 
> EARTH TO POGO:  You don't deal away a Cy Young award winning All Star for a losing pitcher (6 and 10) and a .128 hitter.  You don't talk about "could be" alongside a player like David Price (unless you're a mouthpiece for the money hustlers)
> 
> So if you're comfortable with rooting for a team whose owner takes actions that weaken/harm the team (cause it to lose more games), and as you root and strive to see the team get better, the owner is making it worse, then you're free to keep on being a fan for that team.  I see that as stupidity, which does no one any good except those greed freak owners, which is why I have turned my attention now to my local minor league team (Tampa Yankees).  To each his own.
> 
> As for WinterBorn, I don't need coaching to know what kind of poster he is.  I know exactly his angle, and it's a far cry from what you said.
> 
> As for my way of dealing with  the commercialization of Baseball, it is for it to be UNcommercialized, and reorganized under a community control scenario, which benefits the fans, instead of a few greedy money hustlers.  I'd say that is perfectly accurate. If you don't, I can live with that.  Not my problem.  And I laugh at you calling it inaccurate, and YesterdayBorn calling it "no argument".  And I don't mind if I  look like a "whiner", to those who appear to look like suck-ups to the money freak hijackers of MLB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know my angle??   LMAO!!   My only angle is to call you on your lies and to ridicule your plan for the gov't to steal private property for your entertainment.
> 
> But you keep flailing around trying to find a point.  So far, you have none.  Yes, I get that you aren't happy with MLB.  If that is the worst problem you have, your life must be some kinda cakewalk.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOU KNOW what my point is, as I've been posting all through the thread in including my previous 2 posts right before this.  I now call on you to show ONE single instance where I have lied about anything (and do it without lying).  But even if you don't lie in this challenge I'm giving you, I might just look up some of your lies, and present them to you, if you would like that constructive criticism.  At your service.
Click to expand...


When Pogo posted "Hey, the packers did it", meaning having the fans buy the team, you posted:

"That's what I've been suggesting to him.".    That was a lie.  Since the beginning of the thread you have been calling for the gov't to take over baseball.   That is most certainly NOT what the packers did, and you know it.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect example of how clueless you are on this issue. "As if  that means anything" ?   You obviously don't know what millions of fans know.  That of course it means something.  It means that the players aren't being tossed around like a bunch of baseball cards.  They stayed with one team, where their loyal fans could keep enjoying watching them and rooting for them.  And it means that right when their team was in contention for a spot in the playoffs, that wasn't ruined by some money hustler making deals that significantly WEAKEN the team. And that guy is who you think should have the say about moving players around ?  Sheeeeesh!!
> 
> You obviously don't know what you're talking about here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know that YOU talked about free agency as if it were part of the problem.
> 
> And yes, when you pay the salaries of the players, you get to decide which ones you want and which you want to trade.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Of course it's part of the problem, YesterdayBorn.   And why repeat to me the current idiotic scenario of money-based baseball ?  Sure, that's how it works.  Exactly what we need to replace with something that absolutely does NOT work that way.  Get it ?
Click to expand...


So you think the fans should be able to decide, and ignore what the team owners and the actual players want??   Absolutely not.

After a certain time, a player should have control over where they play.  Period.


----------



## JakeStarkey

protectionist said:


> Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years. I ceased to be a major league baseball fan. I started out as a kid rooting for the New York Yankees in the 1950s. After I moved to California in the late 70s, I became an Oakland As fan, and in the late 90s, I became a Tampa Bay Rays fan. But yesterday the private owners of the Rays caused me to drop the game of baseball from my life entirely, when they cut loose the Rays star pitcher, David Price, and his big salary, to Detroit, and pretended it was a trade. They got really nothing in return. In fact the 2 active players they got are more likely to hurt the Rays than help them.
> 
> The bottom line of this is that these guys (owners) are wrecking the game of baseball, that we fans have known and love and followed all our lives. And why ? Simple. Because to them, it isn't a game of baseball. It's a stock market. It's a profit and loss statement. A balance sheet, etc. These guys couldn't care less what happens to the team. They are looking at this from a MONEY perspective, period.
> 
> Older fans like myself remember the days back when it wasn't anything like this. There was no free agency for the players. Some of the greatest players ever to perform on a field (Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, etc.) played for one team only for 20 years. Teams were not revolving doors, where each year, fans wonder who their teams' players are.
> 
> In the case of the Rays, they are in a significant year. On June 10th, the team was 18 games under .500. Now they are right up in contention once again , and have the best record in baseball since June. Things are going great, and the fans are excited. And what happens ? Mr. Moneybags steps in and starts dismantling the foundations of the team (just to save money).
> 
> OK. He is a capitalist trying to make a profit. But the baseball team is much more than just his PROPERTY. It is a cultural entity in the area. The Rays are an institution in the Tampa bay area, and I'm sure it's the same with other teams in other places. What New York baseball fan my age will ever forget when the Giants and Dodgers left New York and went to the west coast ?.....leaving millions of fans heartbroken.
> 
> It is time to get baseball out of the hands of the moneychangers, and into the hands of the FANS, who care about baseball and its welfare. For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee, and that the Rays play 1/3 of their home games in each of those counties. It is critical to get baseball out of the hands of these dollar sharks, who probably don't know a curve ball, from a balk, from a sacrifice fly, ans are wrecking the game of professional baseball.



Nothing new.

Connie Mack did the same thing in the teens and the thirties of the last century.

Baseball has always been about the profit line.

The only issue for the players and owners was the fair share for the players.

Fans don't count in those matters.


----------



## Votto

protectionist said:


> Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years. I ceased to be a major league baseball fan. I started out as a kid rooting for the New York Yankees in the 1950s. After I moved to California in the late 70s, I became an Oakland As fan, and in the late 90s, I became a Tampa Bay Rays fan. But yesterday the private owners of the Rays caused me to drop the game of baseball from my life entirely, when they cut loose the Rays star pitcher, David Price, and his big salary, to Detroit, and pretended it was a trade. They got really nothing in return. In fact the 2 active players they got are more likely to hurt the Rays than help them.
> 
> The bottom line of this is that these guys (owners) are wrecking the game of baseball, that we fans have known and love and followed all our lives. And why ? Simple. Because to them, it isn't a game of baseball. It's a stock market. It's a profit and loss statement. A balance sheet, etc. These guys couldn't care less what happens to the team. They are looking at this from a MONEY perspective, period.
> 
> Older fans like myself remember the days back when it wasn't anything like this. There was no free agency for the players. Some of the greatest players ever to perform on a field (Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, etc.) played for one team only for 20 years. Teams were not revolving doors, where each year, fans wonder who their teams' players are.
> 
> In the case of the Rays, they are in a significant year. On June 10th, the team was 18 games under .500. Now they are right up in contention once again , and have the best record in baseball since June. Things are going great, and the fans are excited. And what happens ? Mr. Moneybags steps in and starts dismantling the foundations of the team (just to save money).
> 
> OK. He is a capitalist trying to make a profit. But the baseball team is much more than just his PROPERTY. It is a cultural entity in the area. The Rays are an institution in the Tampa bay area, and I'm sure it's the same with other teams in other places. What New York baseball fan my age will ever forget when the Giants and Dodgers left New York and went to the west coast ?.....leaving millions of fans heartbroken.
> 
> It is time to get baseball out of the hands of the moneychangers, and into the hands of the FANS, who care about baseball and its welfare. For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee, and that the Rays play 1/3 of their home games in each of those counties. It is critical to get baseball out of the hands of these dollar sharks, who probably don't know a curve ball, from a balk, from a sacrifice fly, ans are wrecking the game of professional baseball.



You should check out a movie called "Moneyball".  It is a true story about how the Oakland A's came to terms with being a small market team.  They used computerized formulas to try and obtain as much for their buck as possible.

As a result, the A's make the playoffs about every year now.  Granted, they never do anything in the playoffs, and never will, but they have managed to at least make it interesting for the fans every year.

Make no mistake, another big money team will win the World Series this year, that is because they do every year.  Baseball is simply broken.

So what should be done about it?  The problem is, everyone is happy, except the fans.  The players are happy because if they are good enough, they can play for the Yankees who will pay outrageous sums of money for them.  The owners are happy because they alone decide whether they wish to compete for a world championship, or simply use the team as a means to make money.  And the media is happy because big money teams come from big media markets.  This means that only major cities will win World Championships, which equates to more money and interest for them.


----------



## Votto

JakeStarkey said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years. I ceased to be a major league baseball fan. I started out as a kid rooting for the New York Yankees in the 1950s. After I moved to California in the late 70s, I became an Oakland As fan, and in the late 90s, I became a Tampa Bay Rays fan. But yesterday the private owners of the Rays caused me to drop the game of baseball from my life entirely, when they cut loose the Rays star pitcher, David Price, and his big salary, to Detroit, and pretended it was a trade. They got really nothing in return. In fact the 2 active players they got are more likely to hurt the Rays than help them.
> 
> The bottom line of this is that these guys (owners) are wrecking the game of baseball, that we fans have known and love and followed all our lives. And why ? Simple. Because to them, it isn't a game of baseball. It's a stock market. It's a profit and loss statement. A balance sheet, etc. These guys couldn't care less what happens to the team. They are looking at this from a MONEY perspective, period.
> 
> Older fans like myself remember the days back when it wasn't anything like this. There was no free agency for the players. Some of the greatest players ever to perform on a field (Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, etc.) played for one team only for 20 years. Teams were not revolving doors, where each year, fans wonder who their teams' players are.
> 
> In the case of the Rays, they are in a significant year. On June 10th, the team was 18 games under .500. Now they are right up in contention once again , and have the best record in baseball since June. Things are going great, and the fans are excited. And what happens ? Mr. Moneybags steps in and starts dismantling the foundations of the team (just to save money).
> 
> OK. He is a capitalist trying to make a profit. But the baseball team is much more than just his PROPERTY. It is a cultural entity in the area. The Rays are an institution in the Tampa bay area, and I'm sure it's the same with other teams in other places. What New York baseball fan my age will ever forget when the Giants and Dodgers left New York and went to the west coast ?.....leaving millions of fans heartbroken.
> 
> It is time to get baseball out of the hands of the moneychangers, and into the hands of the FANS, who care about baseball and its welfare. For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee, and that the Rays play 1/3 of their home games in each of those counties. It is critical to get baseball out of the hands of these dollar sharks, who probably don't know a curve ball, from a balk, from a sacrifice fly, ans are wrecking the game of professional baseball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new.
> 
> Connie Mack did the same thing in the teens and the thirties of the last century.
> 
> Baseball has always been about the profit line.
> 
> The only issue for the players and owners was the fair share for the players.
> 
> Fans don't count in those matters.
Click to expand...


True, but with the advent of free agency and union pressure, the game has changed for the betterment of the players and the detriment of the fans.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Votto said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years. I ceased to be a major league baseball fan. I started out as a kid rooting for the New York Yankees in the 1950s. After I moved to California in the late 70s, I became an Oakland As fan, and in the late 90s, I became a Tampa Bay Rays fan. But yesterday the private owners of the Rays caused me to drop the game of baseball from my life entirely, when they cut loose the Rays star pitcher, David Price, and his big salary, to Detroit, and pretended it was a trade. They got really nothing in return. In fact the 2 active players they got are more likely to hurt the Rays than help them.
> 
> The bottom line of this is that these guys (owners) are wrecking the game of baseball, that we fans have known and love and followed all our lives. And why ? Simple. Because to them, it isn't a game of baseball. It's a stock market. It's a profit and loss statement. A balance sheet, etc. These guys couldn't care less what happens to the team. They are looking at this from a MONEY perspective, period.
> 
> Older fans like myself remember the days back when it wasn't anything like this. There was no free agency for the players. Some of the greatest players ever to perform on a field (Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, etc.) played for one team only for 20 years. Teams were not revolving doors, where each year, fans wonder who their teams' players are.
> 
> In the case of the Rays, they are in a significant year. On June 10th, the team was 18 games under .500. Now they are right up in contention once again , and have the best record in baseball since June. Things are going great, and the fans are excited. And what happens ? Mr. Moneybags steps in and starts dismantling the foundations of the team (just to save money).
> 
> OK. He is a capitalist trying to make a profit. But the baseball team is much more than just his PROPERTY. It is a cultural entity in the area. The Rays are an institution in the Tampa bay area, and I'm sure it's the same with other teams in other places. What New York baseball fan my age will ever forget when the Giants and Dodgers left New York and went to the west coast ?.....leaving millions of fans heartbroken.
> 
> It is time to get baseball out of the hands of the moneychangers, and into the hands of the FANS, who care about baseball and its welfare. For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee, and that the Rays play 1/3 of their home games in each of those counties. It is critical to get baseball out of the hands of these dollar sharks, who probably don't know a curve ball, from a balk, from a sacrifice fly, ans are wrecking the game of professional baseball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new.
> 
> Connie Mack did the same thing in the teens and the thirties of the last century.
> 
> Baseball has always been about the profit line.
> 
> The only issue for the players and owners was the fair share for the players.
> 
> Fans don't count in those matters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, but with the advent of free agency and union pressure, the game has changed for the betterment of the players and the detriment of the fans.
Click to expand...


It does not hold the mystique of the 1950s, yes.


----------



## WinterBorn

JakeStarkey said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new.
> 
> Connie Mack did the same thing in the teens and the thirties of the last century.
> 
> Baseball has always been about the profit line.
> 
> The only issue for the players and owners was the fair share for the players.
> 
> Fans don't count in those matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, but with the advent of free agency and union pressure, the game has changed for the betterment of the players and the detriment of the fans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not hold the mystique of the 1950s, yes.
Click to expand...


What does?  I mean, the 50s were full of heros and giants.  Now they are just people.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You don't go around posting off topic?   lmao
> 
> Exactly what part of the topic involves my cigar?   You mentioned that 2 or 3 times.
> 
> And yes, you should tell me what is unsafe about MLB.  You claim the citizens of the USA are suffering "major harm".  How can that not be a safety issue?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HA HA  HA!!  What an absolutely dumb question.  Good lord.  I actually feel a bit silly lowering myself to dignify it with a response.
> 
> EARTH TO YESTERDAYBORN:  There are scores of ways of defining "harms", all having nothing to do with safety.  Safety refers to physical injury harm to people.
> 
> Here's a few examples of major harm, not involving safety >>
> 
> 1.  being sued and losing
> 
> 2.  being burglarized and losing valuable things
> 
> 3.  having your home or car vandalized
> 
> 4.  illegal aliens taking millions of jobs in the US, while millions of Americans are unemployed
> 
> That's enough talking to you (too much in fact).  I now turn my attention to other threads involving more serious matters (ISIS, Hamas, etc)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Funny that you can list all those harms, but you still have not defined anything in modern baseball that constitutes "major harm" to the citizens.
Click to expand...


CORRECTION:  I have not defined anything in modern baseball that constitutes "major harm" to the citizens, in your view, or at least what you say is your view.  But whether it really is your view, or you just pretend that it is, is of minor significance.  

  Fact is, million of loyal baseball fans have been abandoned by the owner of the team, who has the power to weaken it, and has done just that, in 3 ways.  That may not be major harm to you, but it's major harm to them, whether they keep rooting for the Rays or not.

And you can disagree with me.  No problem.  In fact, if you were agreeing with me, I'd feel a sense of discomfort, to the point of inducing me to take a second look at what I've been saying.  Fortunately, you haven't been agreeing with me.  That's rather comforting.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know my angle??   LMAO!!   My only angle is to call you on your lies and to ridicule your plan for the gov't to steal private property for your entertainment.
> 
> But you keep flailing around trying to find a point.  So far, you have none.  Yes, I get that you aren't happy with MLB.  If that is the worst problem you have, your life must be some kinda cakewalk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOU KNOW what my point is, as I've been posting all through the thread in including my previous 2 posts right before this.  I now call on you to show ONE single instance where I have lied about anything (and do it without lying).  But even if you don't lie in this challenge I'm giving you, I might just look up some of your lies, and present them to you, if you would like that constructive criticism.  At your service.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When Pogo posted "Hey, the packers did it", meaning having the fans buy the team, you posted:
> 
> "That's what I've been suggesting to him.".    That was a lie.  Since the beginning of the thread you have been calling for the gov't to take over baseball.   That is most certainly NOT what the packers did, and you know it.
Click to expand...


Sure it is.  That Packers were taken over by the people.  That's what the govt is (didn't you know ?) Govt of the people, by the people, for the people.  The govt IS the people.  The people ARE the govt (unless you're living in Syria)


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know that YOU talked about free agency as if it were part of the problem.
> 
> And yes, when you pay the salaries of the players, you get to decide which ones you want and which you want to trade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it's part of the problem, YesterdayBorn.   And why repeat to me the current idiotic scenario of money-based baseball ?  Sure, that's how it works.  Exactly what we need to replace with something that absolutely does NOT work that way.  Get it ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you think the fans should be able to decide, and ignore what the team owners and the actual players want??   Absolutely not.
> 
> After a certain time, a player should have control over where they play.  Period.
Click to expand...


HA HA.  I've noticed you bring things up that I've never mentioned , and then start criticizing me about it.  Well, you'll have to put your straw men back in the closet.  I haven't said anything about ignoring what players want, YOU said that.  In fact, the player named David Price did not want to leave the Rays.  I'm quite sure about that.  and* yes, I think the fans should decide* and the owners shouldn't even be the owners. especially when they don't support their own team, and make deals that harm the team, making it worse, and lessening its chances to get into the post season.
  And yeah, players should have control over where they play.  And now, they don't (like Price didn't have control over going to Detroit)


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, but with the advent of free agency and union pressure, the game has changed for the betterment of the players and the detriment of the fans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does not hold the mystique of the 1950s, yes.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What does?  I mean, the 50s were full of heros and giants.  Now they are just people.
Click to expand...


If anyone can figure out what this post means, please let me know.


----------



## protectionist

Votto said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday, I quit doing something that I have been doing for 60 years. I ceased to be a major league baseball fan. I started out as a kid rooting for the New York Yankees in the 1950s. After I moved to California in the late 70s, I became an Oakland As fan, and in the late 90s, I became a Tampa Bay Rays fan. But yesterday the private owners of the Rays caused me to drop the game of baseball from my life entirely, when they cut loose the Rays star pitcher, David Price, and his big salary, to Detroit, and pretended it was a trade. They got really nothing in return. In fact the 2 active players they got are more likely to hurt the Rays than help them.
> 
> The bottom line of this is that these guys (owners) are wrecking the game of baseball, that we fans have known and love and followed all our lives. And why ? Simple. Because to them, it isn't a game of baseball. It's a stock market. It's a profit and loss statement. A balance sheet, etc. These guys couldn't care less what happens to the team. They are looking at this from a MONEY perspective, period.
> 
> Older fans like myself remember the days back when it wasn't anything like this. There was no free agency for the players. Some of the greatest players ever to perform on a field (Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, etc.) played for one team only for 20 years. Teams were not revolving doors, where each year, fans wonder who their teams' players are.
> 
> In the case of the Rays, they are in a significant year. On June 10th, the team was 18 games under .500. Now they are right up in contention once again , and have the best record in baseball since June. Things are going great, and the fans are excited. And what happens ? Mr. Moneybags steps in and starts dismantling the foundations of the team (just to save money).
> 
> OK. He is a capitalist trying to make a profit. But the baseball team is much more than just his PROPERTY. It is a cultural entity in the area. The Rays are an institution in the Tampa bay area, and I'm sure it's the same with other teams in other places. What New York baseball fan my age will ever forget when the Giants and Dodgers left New York and went to the west coast ?.....leaving millions of fans heartbroken.
> 
> It is time to get baseball out of the hands of the moneychangers, and into the hands of the FANS, who care about baseball and its welfare. For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be bought by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee, and that the Rays play 1/3 of their home games in each of those counties. It is critical to get baseball out of the hands of these dollar sharks, who probably don't know a curve ball, from a balk, from a sacrifice fly, ans are wrecking the game of professional baseball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new.
> 
> Connie Mack did the same thing in the teens and the thirties of the last century.
> 
> Baseball has always been about the profit line.
> 
> The only issue for the players and owners was the fair share for the players.
> 
> Fans don't count in those matters.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, but with the advent of free agency and union pressure, the game has changed for the betterment of the players and the detriment of the fans.
Click to expand...


Correct.  And it has a power strata, with owners at the top, players in the middle, and fans at the bottom.  And that gap between the owners and both the players and fans is widening as time goes by.  Not good.


----------



## protectionist

JakeStarkey said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new.
> 
> Connie Mack did the same thing in the teens and the thirties of the last century.
> 
> Baseball has always been about the profit line.
> 
> The only issue for the players and owners was the fair share for the players.
> 
> Fans don't count in those matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, but with the advent of free agency and union pressure, the game has changed for the betterment of the players and the detriment of the fans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It does not hold the mystique of the 1950s, yes.
Click to expand...


Agreed. And much of that 1950s mystique was the heros who performed at top caliber, and fans could be relaxed that they (Stan Musial, Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Sandy Koufax, etc) would be there for them all season long, in the post season, and next year, and the year after.  Today's fans can't even expect to get into August with their top guy (ex. David Price)


----------



## Jarlaxle

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want the gov't to step in and steal major league basebal teams from their rightful owners and give them to some sort of halfassed citizen consortium??
> 
> You want to cheat the team owners out of hundreds of millions of dollars, and take their property, against their will and by force, all because you don't like the way they are playing the game now??
> 
> I have seen some suggestions for temper tantrums, but this one takes the cake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I'd like to see govt step in  and TAKE BACK what MLB owners have stolen from the fans.  The game of pro baseball.  And where do you get off calling a citizen consortium "half-assed" ?  What is "half-assed" is this whole mish-mash that baseball has turned into, by being run by baseball ignorant greed freaks.
> 
> Yes, I want to nationalize the leagues, I think you heard me right, but it's not because I _"don't like the way they are playing the game now"_.  YOU KNOW why.  It's because they've made a shambles out of it, and everyone knows it.
> And it's not a temper tantrum.  It is form following function (as they used to tell us in college, remember ?  )
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You want to STEAL something from private citizens and give it to someone you think will bring it back to some "golden age" nonsense??
> 
> What makes you think you have a right to someone else's property?
Click to expand...


The voices in his head!


----------



## Jarlaxle

protectionist said:


> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stopped following MLB twenty years ago.
> 
> Now I watch MiLB,  Texas League,  Springfield, Missouri Cardinals.
> 
> The games are better,  the players have hustle,  it's less expensive to see a game in person,  and closer to boot (for me at least).
> 
> The ONLY down side in my case,  is as some of my favorite minor league player move up to the majors,  like Allen Craig,  John Jay,  Matt Adams and Matt Carpenter...I'm tempted to continue following their careers...but to date,  I continue to fight it off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post.  Refreshing to see a post in here with exactly the right idea.  I too went to minor league baseball about 20 years ago, when they had the MLB players strike.  I lived in Pinellas County in the Tampa Bay area, and I went to some of the Dundein Blue Jays and Clearwater Phillies games back then.  They were great.  Everything was inexpensive and easy to do.  Ticket prices, parking, concessions, etc, and you got to see a very fine ball game .
> 
> The minor league players play hard too.  They're trying to make it to the majors.  I honestly don't know why I ever went back to watching MLB.  Since I'm no longer watching the Rays (or anything having to do with MLB), I'm going to return to the minor league fan base. I'm in Tampa now, so I guess I'll become a Tampa Yankees fan.
> 
> Thanks for the helpful reminder.
Click to expand...


You forgot: because the minor league games pretty much suck.  I can watch shitty baseball for free at the local high school!  I'm 20 minutes away from one minor-league team A ball), an hour away from another (AA).  It's pretty weak sauce.


----------



## Jarlaxle

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> There must be quite a few people who like the way MLB is going.
> 
> According to this:  List of sports attendance figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Almost 75 million people attended a game last year.
> 
> According to this link, baseball has the highest attendance numbers of any sport:  Ranking sports? popularity: And the silver goes to... | The Economist
> 
> Not watching games on tv, but actually going out to the ball park and being there.   So, apparently your opinion is not shared by a lot a MLB fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Apparently my opinion certainly IS shared by a lot of Rays fans, and here's the evidence of it.  There are many threads in this forum, but if you look through the forum, you will find hundreds of posts in agreement  with me >>
Click to expand...


Rays "fans" are the worst in baseball.  They flat don't give a shit.  Hell, they couldn't sell out Tropicana Field *when they had a pennant-winning team!*  The only games they sell out are against Boston and New York...and that only because fans of *the visiting team* show up!


----------



## Jarlaxle

Defiant1 said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hundreds of posts online against almost 75 million fans buying tickets and attending a game.  lol
> 
> Now back to this "major harm" claim.     I can see being disappointed.  I can see not wanting to find a new hobby or new teams to watch.   But neither of those two things are "major harm" by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> Care to define the "major harm" the citizenry is experiencing?  (I'm guessing you won't)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".
> 
> 1.  Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.
> 
> 2.  For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.
> 
> 3.  You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it.  Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?
Click to expand...


Because he is batshit insane and nuttier than a sack of cashews.


----------



## BillyP

Basebzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


----------



## Jarlaxle

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU KNOW what my point is, as I've been posting all through the thread in including my previous 2 posts right before this.  I now call on you to show ONE single instance where I have lied about anything (and do it without lying).  But even if you don't lie in this challenge I'm giving you, I might just look up some of your lies, and present them to you, if you would like that constructive criticism.  At your service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Pogo posted "Hey, the packers did it", meaning having the fans buy the team, you posted:
> 
> "That's what I've been suggesting to him.".    That was a lie.  Since the beginning of the thread you have been calling for the gov't to take over baseball.   That is most certainly NOT what the packers did, and you know it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure it is.  That Packers were taken over by the people.  That's what the govt is (didn't you know ?) Govt of the people, by the people, for the people.  The govt IS the people.  The people ARE the govt (unless you're living in Syria)
Click to expand...


OK, there are only three possibilities here:
Are you LYING?
Are you STUPID?
Or are you DELUSIONAL?


----------



## JakeStarkey

The Packers are the only private-public ownership in Major sports.

No legal justification exists to nationalize the league.

A city could make an outrageous offer to a team's ownership or try to use imminent domain, but I am not sure the latter is lega.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU KNOW what my point is, as I've been posting all through the thread in including my previous 2 posts right before this.  I now call on you to show ONE single instance where I have lied about anything (and do it without lying).  But even if you don't lie in this challenge I'm giving you, I might just look up some of your lies, and present them to you, if you would like that constructive criticism.  At your service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When Pogo posted "Hey, the packers did it", meaning having the fans buy the team, you posted:
> 
> "That's what I've been suggesting to him.".    That was a lie.  Since the beginning of the thread you have been calling for the gov't to take over baseball.   That is most certainly NOT what the packers did, and you know it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure it is.  That Packers were taken over by the people.  That's what the govt is (didn't you know ?) Govt of the people, by the people, for the people.  The govt IS the people.  The people ARE the govt (unless you're living in Syria)
Click to expand...


So now you are going to pretend that people buying shares in the team (and purchasing the team from the owner) is the same as the gov't taking the team away from the owner, without due compensation, whether the owner wants to sell or not???  Really?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it's part of the problem, YesterdayBorn.   And why repeat to me the current idiotic scenario of money-based baseball ?  Sure, that's how it works.  Exactly what we need to replace with something that absolutely does NOT work that way.  Get it ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you think the fans should be able to decide, and ignore what the team owners and the actual players want??   Absolutely not.
> 
> After a certain time, a player should have control over where they play.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> HA HA.  I've noticed you bring things up that I've never mentioned , and then start criticizing me about it.  Well, you'll have to put your straw men back in the closet.  I haven't said anything about ignoring what players want, YOU said that.  In fact, the player named David Price did not want to leave the Rays.  I'm quite sure about that.  and* yes, I think the fans should decide* and the owners shouldn't even be the owners. especially when they don't support their own team, and make deals that harm the team, making it worse, and lessening its chances to get into the post season.
> And yeah, players should have control over where they play.  And now, they don't (like Price didn't have control over going to Detroit)
Click to expand...


You want to do away with free agency, which allows the players to go where they want.

You want to limit their pay to $300k a year, at the most, when the current minimum is $500k a year.  Do you think the players WANT that?

Please spare us any attempt to claim you had the players in mind in your robbery scheme.


----------



## WinterBorn

Jarlaxle said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> When Pogo posted "Hey, the packers did it", meaning having the fans buy the team, you posted:
> 
> "That's what I've been suggesting to him.".    That was a lie.  Since the beginning of the thread you have been calling for the gov't to take over baseball.   That is most certainly NOT what the packers did, and you know it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it is.  That Packers were taken over by the people.  That's what the govt is (didn't you know ?) Govt of the people, by the people, for the people.  The govt IS the people.  The people ARE the govt (unless you're living in Syria)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> OK, there are only three possibilities here:
> Are you LYING?
> Are you STUPID?
> Or are you DELUSIONAL?
Click to expand...


I think it might be a combination of all of the above.


----------



## Unkotare

If you want to see a deranged old loon's head explode, point out to him that many of his 'heroes' rolleyes are _*immigrants*_!


----------



## protectionist

JakeStarkey said:


> The Packers are the only private-public ownership in Major sports.
> 
> No legal justification exists to nationalize the league.
> 
> A city could make an outrageous offer to a team's ownership or try to use imminent domain, but I am not sure the latter is lega.



Post again when you ARE sure.

Also, remember that the legalities 1) can be changed form week to week and 2) legalities vary from state to state, and even from county to county.


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> If you want to see a deranged old loon's head explode, point out to him that many of his 'heroes' rolleyes are _*immigrants*_!



Go back to your attic, Uncletard (immigrant ass-kisser)


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure it is.  That Packers were taken over by the people.  That's what the govt is (didn't you know ?) Govt of the people, by the people, for the people.  The govt IS the people.  The people ARE the govt (unless you're living in Syria)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK, there are only three possibilities here:
> Are you LYING?
> Are you STUPID?
> Or are you DELUSIONAL?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think it might be a combination of all of the above.
Click to expand...


So you two fools don't believe in Govt of the people, by the people, for the people.  I see. Well, yeah, I guess you both could go move to Syria.  Been a shortage of people there lately, I hear.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Protectionist, hope all you want that the leagues will be nationalized.


----------



## protectionist

Jarlaxle said:


> Defiant1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a curious habit of ignoring posts that have refuted your hollow "points".
> 
> 1.  Your fans buying tickets notion was vaporized in post # 80.
> 
> 2.  For every 1 fan writing a post in a message board, there's thousands more who think the same thing, and don't speak out.
> 
> 3.  You've been answered on this "harm" thing, amd you've been told you've been answered, yet you continue to pester me on it.  Clearly, this is harrassment, and I guess I'll keep reporting it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Because he is batshit insane and nuttier than a sack of cashews.
Click to expand...


No, YOUR post is as stupid as it is because you doin't even realized that I never said anything about_ "enslavement of athletes"_, which is something that owners are guilty of (if anybody is), an which is something I've been speaking out against, you idiot.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, there are only three possibilities here:
> Are you LYING?
> Are you STUPID?
> Or are you DELUSIONAL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it might be a combination of all of the above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you two fools don't believe in Govt of the people, by the people, for the people.  I see. Well, yeah, I guess you both could go move to Syria.  Been a shortage of people there lately, I hear.
Click to expand...


I believe you are trying to cover for your lie.

Once again, the gov't did not buy or take the Packers.   Individual people bought shares in the team.  That is very different.


----------



## protectionist

Jarlaxle said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> There must be quite a few people who like the way MLB is going.
> 
> According to this:  List of sports attendance figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Almost 75 million people attended a game last year.
> 
> According to this link, baseball has the highest attendance numbers of any sport:  Ranking sports? popularity: And the silver goes to... | The Economist
> 
> Not watching games on tv, but actually going out to the ball park and being there.   So, apparently your opinion is not shared by a lot a MLB fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Apparently my opinion certainly IS shared by a lot of Rays fans, and here's the evidence of it.  There are many threads in this forum, but if you look through the forum, you will find hundreds of posts in agreement  with me >>
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Rays "fans" are the worst in baseball.  They flat don't give a shit.  Hell, they couldn't sell out Tropicana Field *when they had a pennant-winning team!*  The only games they sell out are against Boston and New York...and that only because fans of *the visiting team* show up!
Click to expand...


FALSE!  Rays fans are among the best.  Most are the ones who stay home and faithfully watch the games on TV, consistently.  So why don't they go to the games ?  Because of just what I've been talking about in this thread. Because of baseball having turned into a money hustling operation, instead of the good game it used to be.  Ticket prices WAAAAY too high.  Parking prices WAAY too high.  Refreshment prices WAAY too high.  Souvenierprices WAAAY too high, etc, etc.

  In general, it's an attitude among the baseball lords on high, to serve THEMSELVES and throw the fans (especially middle class) under the bus, and make the game only for rich fans, and middle class ones who are dumb enough to keep going to the games, allowing the owners to screw them. (like those Boston Red Sox fans, for example) 

Of course it didn't help that they located the stadium right in between 2  low economic communities, one of them one of the biggest ghettos in America, while having all those high prices.   And modern day TV (HD, big screen, replays, etc) is better than ever.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, there are only three possibilities here:
> Are you LYING?
> Are you STUPID?
> Or are you DELUSIONAL?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it might be a combination of all of the above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you two fools don't believe in Govt of the people, by the people, for the people.  I see. Well, yeah, I guess you both could go move to Syria.  Been a shortage of people there lately, I hear.
Click to expand...


So you are claiming that every business owned by stockholders is actually owned by the gov't??


You are either lying or an idiot.  Pick one.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Defiant1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you advocate the enslavement of athletes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because he is batshit insane and nuttier than a sack of cashews.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, YOUR post is as stupid as it is because you doin't even realized that I never said anything about_ "enslavement of athletes"_, which is something that owners are guilty of (if anybody is), an which is something I've been speaking out against, you idiot.
Click to expand...


Really?  You are the one who wants athletes to stay with one team.   You take away their choice and their freedom to sell their talents to whom they choose.

The owners are not guilty of doing away with free agency.  But you certainly want to.


----------



## protectionist

Jarlaxle said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missourian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I stopped following MLB twenty years ago.
> 
> Now I watch MiLB,  Texas League,  Springfield, Missouri Cardinals.
> 
> The games are better,  the players have hustle,  it's less expensive to see a game in person,  and closer to boot (for me at least).
> 
> The ONLY down side in my case,  is as some of my favorite minor league player move up to the majors,  like Allen Craig,  John Jay,  Matt Adams and Matt Carpenter...I'm tempted to continue following their careers...but to date,  I continue to fight it off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great post.  Refreshing to see a post in here with exactly the right idea.  I too went to minor league baseball about 20 years ago, when they had the MLB players strike.  I lived in Pinellas County in the Tampa Bay area, and I went to some of the Dundein Blue Jays and Clearwater Phillies games back then.  They were great.  Everything was inexpensive and easy to do.  Ticket prices, parking, concessions, etc, and you got to see a very fine ball game .
> 
> The minor league players play hard too.  They're trying to make it to the majors.  I honestly don't know why I ever went back to watching MLB.  Since I'm no longer watching the Rays (or anything having to do with MLB), I'm going to return to the minor league fan base. I'm in Tampa now, so I guess I'll become a Tampa Yankees fan.
> 
> Thanks for the helpful reminder.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You forgot: because the minor league games pretty much suck.  I can watch shitty baseball for free at the local high school!  I'm 20 minutes away from one minor-league team A ball), an hour away from another (AA).  It's pretty weak sauce.
Click to expand...


Sez you.  I've watched Dunedin Blue Jays games, Clearwater Phillies games and Tampa Yankees games.. All are good games to watch, inexpensive, easy to find parking, plenty of refreshments, and superior to MLB in the ways that matter.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great post.  Refreshing to see a post in here with exactly the right idea.  I too went to minor league baseball about 20 years ago, when they had the MLB players strike.  I lived in Pinellas County in the Tampa Bay area, and I went to some of the Dundein Blue Jays and Clearwater Phillies games back then.  They were great.  Everything was inexpensive and easy to do.  Ticket prices, parking, concessions, etc, and you got to see a very fine ball game .
> 
> The minor league players play hard too.  They're trying to make it to the majors.  I honestly don't know why I ever went back to watching MLB.  Since I'm no longer watching the Rays (or anything having to do with MLB), I'm going to return to the minor league fan base. I'm in Tampa now, so I guess I'll become a Tampa Yankees fan.
> 
> Thanks for the helpful reminder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot: because the minor league games pretty much suck.  I can watch shitty baseball for free at the local high school!  I'm 20 minutes away from one minor-league team A ball), an hour away from another (AA).  It's pretty weak sauce.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sez you.  I've watched Dunedin Blue Jays games, Clearwater Phillies games and Tampa Yankees games.. All are good games to watch, inexpensive, easy to find parking, plenty of refreshments, and superior to MLB in the ways that matter.
Click to expand...


Fine.  Then watch those teams play and give up this insanity about gov't taking over MLB.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it might be a combination of all of the above.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you two fools don't believe in Govt of the people, by the people, for the people.  I see. Well, yeah, I guess you both could go move to Syria.  Been a shortage of people there lately, I hear.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are claiming that every business owned by stockholders is actually owned by the gov't??
> 
> You are either lying or an idiot.  Pick one.
Click to expand...


Here's a piece of advice for you.  Try to avoid use of the word_ "So"_.   That might help to keep you from trying to put words in my mouth (Oh wait.  That's what you meant to do right ?) 

Well I guess somebody who would claim _"that every business owned by stockholders is actually owned by the gov't"_ might indeed be _"either lying or an idiot."_  But I've never heard anybody ever mention anything like that (EXCEPT YOU)


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you two fools don't believe in Govt of the people, by the people, for the people.  I see. Well, yeah, I guess you both could go move to Syria.  Been a shortage of people there lately, I hear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are claiming that every business owned by stockholders is actually owned by the gov't??
> 
> You are either lying or an idiot.  Pick one.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Here's a piece of advice for you.  Try to avoid use of the word_ "So"_.   That might help to keep you from trying to put words in my mouth (Oh wait.  That's what you meant to do right ?)
> 
> Well I guess somebody who would claim _"that every business owned by stockholders is actually owned by the gov't"_ might indeed be _"either lying or an idiot."_  But I've never heard anybody ever mention anything like that (EXCEPT YOU)
Click to expand...


In other words, you admit now that the Packers are NOT owned by the gov't, and that you lied when you claimed it was what you were saying to me?

It has to be one or the other.  Either you were lying when you said that is what you wanted, or you were making a fool of yourself using the "Gov't of the people and by the people" as a defense when I called you on your lie.

The Packers are not owned by the gov't.  They are owned by stockholders.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because he is batshit insane and nuttier than a sack of cashews.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, YOUR post is as stupid as it is because you doin't even realized that I never said anything about_ "enslavement of athletes"_, which is something that owners are guilty of (if anybody is), an which is something I've been speaking out against, you idiot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really?  You are the one who wants athletes to stay with one team.   You take away their choice and their freedom to sell their talents to whom they choose.
> 
> The owners are not guilty of doing away with free agency.  But you certainly want to.
Click to expand...


Stop lying.  I'm not wanting to "take away" anything.  I don't consider free agency to ever have been a valid entity in the first place.  It's something that never should have existed in the first place.  It's like a wallet that a pickpocket stole, and the right ful owner chased him down, and took back his wallet.  UNder your logic, you'd call that _"take away"_.

   I see valid baseball as how it was in the 50's and 60's, only with a community control basis including partial player control as part of that community.  Right now they have NO CONTROL.  The owners decide to trade them and away they go, whether they want to or not.  That is the enslavement of athletes that you seem to favor.  If my scenario were in place now, David Price would still be with the Tampa Ray Rays, and for many more years to come.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are claiming that every business owned by stockholders is actually owned by the gov't??
> 
> You are either lying or an idiot.  Pick one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a piece of advice for you.  Try to avoid use of the word_ "So"_.   That might help to keep you from trying to put words in my mouth (Oh wait.  That's what you meant to do right ?)
> 
> Well I guess somebody who would claim _"that every business owned by stockholders is actually owned by the gov't"_ might indeed be _"either lying or an idiot."_  But I've never heard anybody ever mention anything like that (EXCEPT YOU)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In other words, you admit now that the Packers are NOT owned by the gov't, and that you lied when you claimed it was what you were saying to me?
> 
> It has to be one or the other.  Either you were lying when you said that is what you wanted, or you were making a fool of yourself using the "Gov't of the people and by the people" as a defense when I called you on your lie.
> 
> The Packers are not owned by the gov't.  They are owned by stockholders.
Click to expand...

I'm not interested in the Packers or (in this thread) the NFL.  I'm interested in what I wrote about in the OP, MLB, and THAT topic, which you stray away from much too often.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jarlaxle said:
> 
> 
> 
> You forgot: because the minor league games pretty much suck.  I can watch shitty baseball for free at the local high school!  I'm 20 minutes away from one minor-league team A ball), an hour away from another (AA).  It's pretty weak sauce.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sez you.  I've watched Dunedin Blue Jays games, Clearwater Phillies games and Tampa Yankees games.. All are good games to watch, inexpensive, easy to find parking, plenty of refreshments, and superior to MLB in the ways that matter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fine.  Then watch those teams play and give up this insanity about gov't taking over MLB.
Click to expand...


No.  That's NOT fine.  And it's NOT fine with most fans who are not suck ups to the owners, or shills for them, or too dumb to know what they are.


----------



## JakeStarkey

So, Protectionist, stop while you are behind and enjoy the National Pastime.


----------



## Votto

protectionist said:


> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing new.
> 
> Connie Mack did the same thing in the teens and the thirties of the last century.
> 
> Baseball has always been about the profit line.
> 
> The only issue for the players and owners was the fair share for the players.
> 
> Fans don't count in those matters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, but with the advent of free agency and union pressure, the game has changed for the betterment of the players and the detriment of the fans.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Correct.  And it has a power strata, with owners at the top, players in the middle, and fans at the bottom.  And that gap between the owners and both the players and fans is widening as time goes by.  Not good.
Click to expand...


But this is how everything works, not just baseball.  It's like our health care.  Corporate America and politicians in Washington benefit the most, not us.


----------



## protectionist

JakeStarkey said:


> So, Protectionist, stop while you are behind and enjoy the National Pastime.



Clarification, if you please ?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, YOUR post is as stupid as it is because you doin't even realized that I never said anything about_ "enslavement of athletes"_, which is something that owners are guilty of (if anybody is), an which is something I've been speaking out against, you idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?  You are the one who wants athletes to stay with one team.   You take away their choice and their freedom to sell their talents to whom they choose.
> 
> The owners are not guilty of doing away with free agency.  But you certainly want to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Stop lying.  I'm not wanting to "take away" anything.  I don't consider free agency to ever have been a valid entity in the first place.  It's something that never should have existed in the first place.  It's like a wallet that a pickpocket stole, and the right ful owner chased him down, and took back his wallet.  UNder your logic, you'd call that _"take away"_.
> 
> I see valid baseball as how it was in the 50's and 60's, only with a community control basis including partial player control as part of that community.  Right now they have NO CONTROL.  The owners decide to trade them and away they go, whether they want to or not.  That is the enslavement of athletes that you seem to favor.  If my scenario were in place now, David Price would still be with the Tampa Ray Rays, and for many more years to come.
Click to expand...


So you have claimed that the teams are not worth billions of dollars, as Forbes claims.  And now you claim that free agency doesn't exist.

I guess if you can redefine everything on a whim, you should be able to put the Rays in the lead in their division.  Why worry about pesky little things like facts.

And owners trading a player has been around since the early part of the 20th century.  

The problem with your scenario is that you have no authority or control.  It is easy to make decisions when you have no stake.  Pony up a few million dollars.  Lay it out there to be risked.  Then you might have a little influence.


----------



## JakeStarkey

protectionist said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Protectionist, stop while you are behind and enjoy the National Pastime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clarification, if you please ?
Click to expand...


Your desire to have baseball nationalized is nutty, and you are going to be told so every time you suggest it.


----------



## protectionist

Votto said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Votto said:
> 
> 
> 
> True, but with the advent of free agency and union pressure, the game has changed for the betterment of the players and the detriment of the fans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.  And it has a power strata, with owners at the top, players in the middle, and fans at the bottom.  And that gap between the owners and both the players and fans is widening as time goes by.  Not good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But this is how everything works, not just baseball.  It's like our health care.  Corporate America and politicians in Washington benefit the most, not us.
Click to expand...


And how America works is we have the freedom to object to what isn't good, and to change it for the better.  This is the beauty of being American.  But for many Americans, who don't even know who their Congressman and Senators are, they might as well be living in Iran or the old Soviet Union.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a piece of advice for you.  Try to avoid use of the word_ "So"_.   That might help to keep you from trying to put words in my mouth (Oh wait.  That's what you meant to do right ?)
> 
> Well I guess somebody who would claim _"that every business owned by stockholders is actually owned by the gov't"_ might indeed be _"either lying or an idiot."_  But I've never heard anybody ever mention anything like that (EXCEPT YOU)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you admit now that the Packers are NOT owned by the gov't, and that you lied when you claimed it was what you were saying to me?
> 
> It has to be one or the other.  Either you were lying when you said that is what you wanted, or you were making a fool of yourself using the "Gov't of the people and by the people" as a defense when I called you on your lie.
> 
> The Packers are not owned by the gov't.  They are owned by stockholders.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm not interested in the Packers or (in this thread) the NFL.  I'm interested in what I wrote about in the OP, MLB, and THAT topic, which you stray away from much too often.
Click to expand...


I bet you aren't interested in it.  You made yourself look even more foolish (which I am amazed you could do).

But you DID, in fact, lie.   And when you demanded that I point out a single lie, I did so.  Your responses were to, laughably, claim that if a business were owned by stockholders then they were owned by the gov't.

If you would care to admit you lied and that the Packers are not, as a matter of fact, owned by the gov't, I would happily drop it.

Oh, and YOU are the one who mentioned the Packers first, I believe.


----------



## protectionist

JakeStarkey said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Protectionist, stop while you are behind and enjoy the National Pastime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clarification, if you please ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Your desire to have baseball nationalized is nutty, and you are going to be told so every time you suggest it.
Click to expand...


I am told that govt health insurance is nutty.  So what ?  It isn't nutty.  I am told that raising taxes on the rich is nutty.  It isn't.  I am told that raising the minimum wage is nutty.  It isn't.  And this is just another example of taking power away from irresponsible billionaires and multi-millionaires, and placing it with the people where it belongs. Get it ?
Or do you not subscribe to the old adage ?  > Power to the people.


----------



## JakeStarkey

Yep, your idea is nutty, won't happen, won't be considered by government or the league or 99.9% of the fans.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you admit now that the Packers are NOT owned by the gov't, and that you lied when you claimed it was what you were saying to me?
> 
> It has to be one or the other.  Either you were lying when you said that is what you wanted, or you were making a fool of yourself using the "Gov't of the people and by the people" as a defense when I called you on your lie.
> 
> The Packers are not owned by the gov't.  They are owned by stockholders.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in the Packers or (in this thread) the NFL.  I'm interested in what I wrote about in the OP, MLB, and THAT topic, which you stray away from much too often.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I bet you aren't interested in it.  You made yourself look even more foolish (which I am amazed you could do).
> 
> But you DID, in fact, lie.   And when you demanded that I point out a single lie, I did so.  Your responses were to, laughably, claim that if a business were owned by stockholders then they were owned by the gov't.
> 
> If you would care to admit you lied and that the Packers are not, as a matter of fact, owned by the gov't, I would happily drop it.
> 
> Oh, and YOU are the one who mentioned the Packers first, I believe.
Click to expand...

If you wish to claim that someone has lied, you need to specify the words you are talking about by posting them.. and describing in detail what justifies your claim that these words are a lie.You haven't done that, and so NO, you have NOT pointed out any lie.

And I already responded to your off topic Packers comment.  And if I talked about the Packers, that was probably off topic too.  That doesn't justify you being off topic.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clarification, if you please ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your desire to have baseball nationalized is nutty, and you are going to be told so every time you suggest it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am told that govt health insurance is nutty.  So what ?  It isn't nutty.  I am told that raising taxes on the rich is nutty.  It isn't.  I am told that raising the minimum wage is nutty.  It isn't.  And this is just another example of taking power away from irresponsible billionaires and multi-millionaires, and placing it with the people where it belongs. Get it ?
> Or do you not subscribe to the old adage ?  > Power to the people.
Click to expand...


You were also told that the Packers were not owned by the gov't, that teams are worth billions, and that free agency is a feature in MLB.

Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.


----------



## protectionist

JakeStarkey said:


> Yep, your idea is nutty, won't happen, won't be considered by government or the league or 99.9% of the fans.



What is nutty is you making a reckless proclamation like that, based on nothing whatsoever.  You got a source ?  Got a link ?  Got a basis ?  Got anything ?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in the Packers or (in this thread) the NFL.  I'm interested in what I wrote about in the OP, MLB, and THAT topic, which you stray away from much too often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bet you aren't interested in it.  You made yourself look even more foolish (which I am amazed you could do).
> 
> But you DID, in fact, lie.   And when you demanded that I point out a single lie, I did so.  Your responses were to, laughably, claim that if a business were owned by stockholders then they were owned by the gov't.
> 
> If you would care to admit you lied and that the Packers are not, as a matter of fact, owned by the gov't, I would happily drop it.
> 
> Oh, and YOU are the one who mentioned the Packers first, I believe.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you wish to claim that someone has lied, you need to specify the words you are talking about by posting them.. and describing in detail what justifies your claim that these words are a lie.You haven't done that, and so NO, you have NOT pointed out any lie.
> 
> And I already responded to your off topic Packers comment.  And if I talked about the Packers, that was probably off topic too.  That doesn't justify you being off topic.
Click to expand...


I did point out your lie.  Someone stated that the Packers were bought by the fans.   You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen.  But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen.  You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners.   That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners.  The fans bought stock in the Packers.

Then, in order to try and dodge you lie, you started that "Gov't of the people, by the people" ridiculousness.  

I called you a liar, and you demanded I point out your lie.  I did so.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JakeStarkey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Your desire to have baseball nationalized is nutty, and you are going to be told so every time you suggest it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am told that govt health insurance is nutty.  So what ?  It isn't nutty.  I am told that raising taxes on the rich is nutty.  It isn't.  I am told that raising the minimum wage is nutty.  It isn't.  And this is just another example of taking power away from irresponsible billionaires and multi-millionaires, and placing it with the people where it belongs. Get it ?
> Or do you not subscribe to the old adage ?  > Power to the people.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You were also told that the Packers were not owned by the gov't, that teams are worth billions, and that free agency is a feature in MLB.
> 
> Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.
Click to expand...


YOU WERE TOLD that NO, teams are not worth billions (except in your nutty money-hustling culture which has no validity in proper methodology).  YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that free agency also has no validity in  proper methodology, and YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that being owned by the govt is equivalent (and in fact IS) being owned by the people.

Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet you aren't interested in it.  You made yourself look even more foolish (which I am amazed you could do).
> 
> But you DID, in fact, lie.   And when you demanded that I point out a single lie, I did so.  Your responses were to, laughably, claim that if a business were owned by stockholders then they were owned by the gov't.
> 
> If you would care to admit you lied and that the Packers are not, as a matter of fact, owned by the gov't, I would happily drop it.
> 
> Oh, and YOU are the one who mentioned the Packers first, I believe.
> 
> 
> 
> If you wish to claim that someone has lied, you need to specify the words you are talking about by posting them.. and describing in detail what justifies your claim that these words are a lie.You haven't done that, and so NO, you have NOT pointed out any lie.
> 
> And I already responded to your off topic Packers comment.  And if I talked about the Packers, that was probably off topic too.  That doesn't justify you being off topic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did point out your lie.  Someone stated that the Packers were bought by the fans.   You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen.  But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen.  You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners.   That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners.  The fans bought stock in the Packers.
> 
> Then, in order to try and dodge you lie, you started that "Gov't of the people, by the people" ridiculousness.
> 
> I called you a liar, and you demanded I point out your lie.  I did so.
Click to expand...


I call you a liar right now, for what you just said in this post, you liar.  You said I_ "want the government to* steal* MLB from the owners". _

That's a LIE. I never said _"steal_".YOU deceitfully, said that.

HERE is what I said  >  (*quoted right out of the OP*) > _ "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be *bought* by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."_

Now lets' see if you've got the guts to stand up straight and tall like a man, and apologize.  But I won't expect you to.  Surprise me.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am told that govt health insurance is nutty.  So what ?  It isn't nutty.  I am told that raising taxes on the rich is nutty.  It isn't.  I am told that raising the minimum wage is nutty.  It isn't.  And this is just another example of taking power away from irresponsible billionaires and multi-millionaires, and placing it with the people where it belongs. Get it ?
> Or do you not subscribe to the old adage ?  > Power to the people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were also told that the Packers were not owned by the gov't, that teams are worth billions, and that free agency is a feature in MLB.
> 
> Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> YOU WERE TOLD that NO, teams are not worth billions (except in your nutty money-hustling culture which has no validity in proper methodology).  YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that free agency also has no validity in  proper methodology, and YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that being owned by the govt is equivalent (and in fact IS) being owned by the people.
> 
> Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.
Click to expand...


LMAO!!     There is no methodology in determining worth?   You are obviously ignorant (whether willfully so or not) on this topic.

You WISH free agency was not valid.  But the governing body of MLB, the owners, and the players agree that there is.  You can claim whatever you want, but it is a part of baseball now.

Being owned by the gov't is being owned by the people.  But that is not the same as being owned by stockholders.   What the gov't owns is owned by every single citizen in the nation.  The Packers are owned by stockholders.  That means fans that did more than whine.  They put up their own money to BUY the team.

So no, what you were saying was not the same as what Pogo said about "Hey, the Packers did it".


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you wish to claim that someone has lied, you need to specify the words you are talking about by posting them.. and describing in detail what justifies your claim that these words are a lie.You haven't done that, and so NO, you have NOT pointed out any lie.
> 
> And I already responded to your off topic Packers comment.  And if I talked about the Packers, that was probably off topic too.  That doesn't justify you being off topic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did point out your lie.  Someone stated that the Packers were bought by the fans.   You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen.  But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen.  You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners.   That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners.  The fans bought stock in the Packers.
> 
> Then, in order to try and dodge you lie, you started that "Gov't of the people, by the people" ridiculousness.
> 
> I called you a liar, and you demanded I point out your lie.  I did so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I call you a liar right now, for what you just said in this post, you liar.  You said I_ "want the government to* steal* MLB from the owners". _
> 
> That's a LIE. I never said _"steal_".YOU deceitfully, said that.
> 
> HERE is what I said  >  (*quoted right out of the OP*) > _ "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be *bought* by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."_
> 
> Now lets' see if you've got the guts to stand up straight and tall like a man, and apologize.  But I won't expect you to.  Surprise me.
Click to expand...


Oh please, you want to challenge me to be a man and admit that I lied, when you have spent 3 or 4 pages dancing and denying your lie??    LOL!!    Your hypocrisy is amazing.

And yes, you want to STEAL the teams.   You have said you wantto gov't to take them over, and not to pay what the teams are worth.  And you demand that the gov't take them over whether the owners wish to or not.  You demand that the gov't take something worth far more than they will be paid for it, and the owners have no choice.  That is stealing.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You were also told that the Packers were not owned by the gov't, that teams are worth billions, and that free agency is a feature in MLB.
> 
> Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YOU WERE TOLD that NO, teams are not worth billions (except in your nutty money-hustling culture which has no validity in proper methodology).  YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that free agency also has no validity in  proper methodology, and YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that being owned by the govt is equivalent (and in fact IS) being owned by the people.
> Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LMAO!!     There is no methodology in determining worth?   You are obviously ignorant (whether willfully so or not) on this topic.
> You WISH free agency was not valid.  But the governing body of MLB, the owners, and the players agree that there is.  You can claim whatever you want, but it is a part of baseball now.
> Being owned by the gov't is being owned by the people.  But that is not the same as being owned by stockholders.   What the gov't owns is owned by every single citizen in the nation.  The Packers are owned by stockholders.  That means fans that did more than whine.  They put up their own money to BUY the team.
> So no, what you were saying was not the same as what Pogo said about "Hey, the Packers did it".
Click to expand...


1.  As is your usual tactic, you pretend that I said something I didn't, and then you proceed to attack me for saying that thing which I did NOT say.  No, Mr. Straw Man.  I did NOT say  _"There is no methodology in determining worth"_   I believe you've been going to this well many times too many now.  YOU said those words, not me.  In fact, By my saying that the Rays fans, through their County govts, should BUY the team, that is a clear definition that I DO conceive of some "methodology in determining worth" because the Counties woud have to have that to determine what to pay for the team.  Looks like you hung yourself again.

2.  As for what is a part of baseball now, that is as meaningful to me, as a carpet full of fleas, which gets treated to repair that situation. 

3.  As for your dopey post about the Packers, as the Rock of WWE fame would say, *"IT DOESN'T MATTER"* whether fans buy a team as stockholders or as citizens.  The important thing is that the team be owned by the fans, so yes, what I said is about the same as what Pogo said.  

Strike 1.  Strike 2.  Strike 3.  YOU'RE OUT (AGAIN)


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> YOU WERE TOLD that NO, teams are not worth billions (except in your nutty money-hustling culture which has no validity in proper methodology).  YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that free agency also has no validity in  proper methodology, and YOU WERE ALSO TOLD that being owned by the govt is equivalent (and in fact IS) being owned by the people.
> Your responses to all the of the above points were genuinely nutty.
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!     There is no methodology in determining worth?   You are obviously ignorant (whether willfully so or not) on this topic.
> You WISH free agency was not valid.  But the governing body of MLB, the owners, and the players agree that there is.  You can claim whatever you want, but it is a part of baseball now.
> Being owned by the gov't is being owned by the people.  But that is not the same as being owned by stockholders.   What the gov't owns is owned by every single citizen in the nation.  The Packers are owned by stockholders.  That means fans that did more than whine.  They put up their own money to BUY the team.
> So no, what you were saying was not the same as what Pogo said about "Hey, the Packers did it".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1.  As is your usual tactic, you pretend that I said something I didn't, and then you proceed to attack me for saying that thing which I did NOT say.  No, Mr. Straw Man.  I did NOT say  _"There is no methodology in determining worth"_   I believe you've been going to this well many times too many now.  YOU said those words, not me.  In fact, By my saying that the Rays fans, through their County govts, should BUY the team, that is a clear definition that I DO conceive of some "methodology in determining worth" because the Counties woud have to have that to determine what to pay for the team.  Looks like you hung yourself again.
> 
> 2.  As for what is a part of baseball now, that is as meaningful to me, as a carpet full of fleas, which gets treated to repair that situation.
> 
> *3.  As for your dopey post about the Packers, as the Rock of WWE fame would say, IT DOESN'T MATTER whether fans buy a team as stockholders or as citizens.  The important thing is that the team be owned by the fans, so yes, what I said is about the same as what Pogo said. *
> 
> Strike 1.  Strike 2.  Strike 3.  YOU'RE OUT (AGAIN)
Click to expand...


No, what you have been saying is NOT the same as what Pogo said.   Pogo talked about fans buying the team.  That is not the same as being gov't owned.

In fact, you even said the same thing when you stated "You got 2 things wrong . 1.) I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise".

So no, you were NOT saying what Pogo said.

And yes, free agency is a part of baseball.  The governing body agrees it does.  The owners agree it does.  And the players agree it does.   You denying that it is valid is completely meaningless.


----------



## WinterBorn

Protectionless, you have been crowing about the gov't taking over baseball.  

In post #2, I said, &#8220;Get the fans together and put up the money to buy the team and pay the players. 
Then it will belong to the fans. Until then......&#8221;

In post #115, Pogo quoted my statement about the fans buying the team and replied &#8220;Hey, the Packers did it.&#8221;

In post #118, you quoted Pogo, and stated &#8220;*That's what I've been suggesting to him*. Then he suggests it back to me (as in your quote), and then complains that I don't have a good idea. This is what trolling looks like.&#8221;

That was NOT what you had been suggesting for 6 or 7 pages of the thread.  You lied.  It is that simple.

The only real question is whether or not you are man enough to own it, or will you continue to deny and dance?


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did point out your lie.  Someone stated that the Packers were bought by the fans.   You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen.  But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen.  You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners.   That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners.  The fans bought stock in the Packers.
> 
> Then, in order to try and dodge you lie, you started that "Gov't of the people, by the people" ridiculousness.
> 
> I called you a liar, and you demanded I point out your lie.  I did so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I call you a liar right now, for what you just said in this post, you liar.  You said I_ "want the government to* steal* MLB from the owners".
> 
> 
> That's a LIE. I never said "steal".YOU deceitfully, said that.
> 
> HERE is what I said  >  (*quoted right out of the OP*) >  "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be *bought* by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."
> 
> Now lets' see if you've got the guts to stand up straight and tall like a man, and apologize.  But I won't expect you to.  Surprise me._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> Oh please, you want to challenge me to be a man and admit that I lied, when you have spent 3 or 4 pages dancing and denying your lie??    LOL!!    Your hypocrisy is amazing.
> 
> And yes, you want to STEAL the teams.   You have said you wantto gov't to take them over, and not to pay what the teams are worth.  And you demand that the gov't take them over whether the owners wish to or not.  You demand that the gov't take something worth far more than they will be paid for it, and the owners have no choice.  That is stealing._
Click to expand...

_

Just as I thought.  You are too much of a wimpy, jellyfish coward to admit you were wrong.

Here's YOUR words >  "Someone stated that the Packers were* bought* by the fans. You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen. But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen. You have been saying you want the government to *steal* MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans* BUYING* the team from owners."

Here's MY words (from the OP) >   "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought* by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."

And I didn't say I don't want to pay what the teams are worth.  I do want to the Counties (as I said in the OP) to buy the teams and I would want them to pay what they are worth. But just because you grab some idiotic number from Forbes magazine as being what the team is worth, that doesn't mean I have to accept it.  NO.  Of course I don't accept that moronic figure. Again you're putting words in my mouth all based on your wrong conceptions of what is and what should be, which means as much to me as a rock in the bottom of a pond.

Obviously, you lied, and now you're lying to try to cover it up, because you're too much of a weakling wuss to stand up and admit that either you lied, or miscalculated and made a mistake.  You're PATHETIC.  _


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I call you a liar right now, for what you just said in this post, you liar.  You said I_ "want the government to* steal* MLB from the owners".
> 
> 
> That's a LIE. I never said "steal".YOU deceitfully, said that.
> 
> HERE is what I said  >  (*quoted right out of the OP*) >  "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be *bought* by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."
> 
> Now lets' see if you've got the guts to stand up straight and tall like a man, and apologize.  But I won't expect you to.  Surprise me._
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> Oh please, you want to challenge me to be a man and admit that I lied, when you have spent 3 or 4 pages dancing and denying your lie??    LOL!!    Your hypocrisy is amazing.
> 
> And yes, you want to STEAL the teams.   You have said you wantto gov't to take them over, and not to pay what the teams are worth.  And you demand that the gov't take them over whether the owners wish to or not.  You demand that the gov't take something worth far more than they will be paid for it, and the owners have no choice.  That is stealing._
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> _
> 
> Just as I thought.  You are too much of a wimpy, jellyfish coward to admit you were wrong.
> 
> Here's YOUR words >  "Someone stated that the Packers were* bought* by the fans. You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen. But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen. You have been saying you want the government to *steal* MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans* BUYING* the team from owners."
> 
> Here's MY words (from the OP) >   "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought* by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."
> 
> And I didn't say I don't want to pay what the teams are worth.  I do want to the Counties (as I said in the OP) to buy the teams and I would want them to pay what they are worth. But just because you grab some idiotic number from Forbes magazine as being what the team is worth, that doesn't mean I have to accept it.  NO.  Of course I don't accept that moronic figure. Again you're putting words in my mouth all based on your wrong conceptions of what is and what should be, which means as much to me as a rock in the bottom of a pond.
> 
> Obviously, you lied, and now you're lying to try to cover it up, because you're too much of a weakling wuss to stand up and admit that either you lied, or miscalculated and made a mistake.  You're PATHETIC.  _
Click to expand...

_

Right, because Forbes is known for not understanding financial matters, right?

LOL!    Your hypocrisy is growing even greater.

You start with an insane idea.  You get called on a lie.  You deny and dance around about your lie.  Then you call someone else names for what you claim was a lie.

If you are not paying the owners what financial experts say is the worth, and you are taking their property whether they want to sell or not, you are stealing it.  Period._


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> LMAO!!     There is no methodology in determining worth?   You are obviously ignorant (whether willfully so or not) on this topic.
> You WISH free agency was not valid.  But the governing body of MLB, the owners, and the players agree that there is.  You can claim whatever you want, but it is a part of baseball now.
> Being owned by the gov't is being owned by the people.  But that is not the same as being owned by stockholders.   What the gov't owns is owned by every single citizen in the nation.  The Packers are owned by stockholders.  That means fans that did more than whine.  They put up their own money to BUY the team.
> So no, what you were saying was not the same as what Pogo said about "Hey, the Packers did it".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  As is your usual tactic, you pretend that I said something I didn't, and then you proceed to attack me for saying that thing which I did NOT say.  No, Mr. Straw Man.  I did NOT say  _"There is no methodology in determining worth"_   I believe you've been going to this well many times too many now.  YOU said those words, not me.  In fact, By my saying that the Rays fans, through their County govts, should BUY the team, that is a clear definition that I DO conceive of some "methodology in determining worth" because the Counties woud have to have that to determine what to pay for the team.  Looks like you hung yourself again.
> 
> 2.  As for what is a part of baseball now, that is as meaningful to me, as a carpet full of fleas, which gets treated to repair that situation.
> 
> *3.  As for your dopey post about the Packers, as the Rock of WWE fame would say, IT DOESN'T MATTER whether fans buy a team as stockholders or as citizens.  The important thing is that the team be owned by the fans, so yes, what I said is about the same as what Pogo said. *
> 
> Strike 1.  Strike 2.  Strike 3.  YOU'RE OUT (AGAIN)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, what you have been saying is NOT the same as what Pogo said.   Pogo talked about fans buying the team.  That is not the same as being gov't owned.
> 
> In fact, you even said the same thing when you stated "You got 2 things wrong . 1.) I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise".
> 
> So no, you were NOT saying what Pogo said.
> 
> And yes, free agency is a part of baseball.  The governing body agrees it does.  The owners agree it does.  And the players agree it does.   You denying that it is valid is completely meaningless.
Click to expand...


1.  Fundamentally, it is the same.  Bottom line > fans own the team (both cases)

2.  Are you retarded ?  All you're talking about is the PRESENT, STUPIDLY MANAGED game of pro baseball. I'm talking about what it SHOULD BE, not what it is.  I already explained this free agency thing to you (twice I think).  For the 3rd time Mr. Dense,* IT DOESN'T MATTER* what the owners agree.  Or the governing body.  The most important element in this is THE FANS.  They are who make it all happen.  You can replace the owners.  YOu can relplace the governing bodies.  You can replace the players (I know some pretty good players who will play for $12/hour)   But you can't replace THE FANS.  Take them away from the stadiums and their TV sets, and you HAVE NO PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL.  Free agency is not valid because it is bad for the fans, and if baseball had been managed properly in the 70s, (by the FANS), free agency would have never come into existence.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  As is your usual tactic, you pretend that I said something I didn't, and then you proceed to attack me for saying that thing which I did NOT say.  No, Mr. Straw Man.  I did NOT say  _"There is no methodology in determining worth"_   I believe you've been going to this well many times too many now.  YOU said those words, not me.  In fact, By my saying that the Rays fans, through their County govts, should BUY the team, that is a clear definition that I DO conceive of some "methodology in determining worth" because the Counties woud have to have that to determine what to pay for the team.  Looks like you hung yourself again.
> 
> 2.  As for what is a part of baseball now, that is as meaningful to me, as a carpet full of fleas, which gets treated to repair that situation.
> 
> *3.  As for your dopey post about the Packers, as the Rock of WWE fame would say, IT DOESN'T MATTER whether fans buy a team as stockholders or as citizens.  The important thing is that the team be owned by the fans, so yes, what I said is about the same as what Pogo said. *
> 
> Strike 1.  Strike 2.  Strike 3.  YOU'RE OUT (AGAIN)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, what you have been saying is NOT the same as what Pogo said.   Pogo talked about fans buying the team.  That is not the same as being gov't owned.
> 
> In fact, you even said the same thing when you stated "You got 2 things wrong . 1.) I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise".
> 
> So no, you were NOT saying what Pogo said.
> 
> And yes, free agency is a part of baseball.  The governing body agrees it does.  The owners agree it does.  And the players agree it does.   You denying that it is valid is completely meaningless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1.  Fundamentally, it is the same.  Bottom line > fans own the team (both cases)
> 
> 2.  Are you retarded ?  All you're talking about is the PRESENT, STUPIDLY MANAGED game of pro baseball. I'm talking about what it SHOULD BE, not what it is.  I already explained this free agency thing to you (twice I think).  For the 3rd time Mr. Dense,* IT DOESN'T MATTER* what the owners agree.  Or the governing body.  The most important element in this is THE FANS.  They are who make it all happen.  You can replace the owners.  YOu can relplace the governing bodies.  You can replace the players (I know some pretty good players who will play for $12/hour)   But you can't replace THE FANS.  Take them away from the stadiums and their TV sets, and you HAVE NO PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL.  Free agency is not valid because it is bad for the fans, and if baseball had been managed properly in the 70s, (by the FANS), free agency would have never come into existence.
Click to expand...


What??    The team being owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as the team being owned by the gov't?     That is absolutely ridiculous.

Whether the fans would have allowed free agency or not, it is a part of baseball now.  Unless you can get the rules changed.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh please, you want to challenge me to be a man and admit that I lied, when you have spent 3 or 4 pages dancing and denying your lie??    LOL!!    Your hypocrisy is amazing.
> 
> And yes, you want to STEAL the teams.   You have said you wantto gov't to take them over, and not to pay what the teams are worth.  And you demand that the gov't take them over whether the owners wish to or not.  You demand that the gov't take something worth far more than they will be paid for it, and the owners have no choice.  That is stealing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as I thought.  You are too much of a wimpy, jellyfish coward to admit you were wrong.
> 
> Here's YOUR words >  _"Someone stated that the Packers were* bought* by the fans. You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen. But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen. You have been saying you want the government to *steal* MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans* BUYING* the team from owners."_
> 
> Here's MY words (from the OP) >   _"For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought* by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.._"
> 
> And I didn't say I don't want to pay what the teams are worth.  I do want to the Counties (as I said in the OP) to buy the teams and I would want them to pay what they are worth. But just because you grab some idiotic number from Forbes magazine as being what the team is worth, that doesn't mean I have to accept it.  NO.  Of course I don't accept that moronic figure. Again you're putting words in my mouth all based on your wrong conceptions of what is and what should be, which means as much to me as a rock in the bottom of a pond.
> 
> Obviously, you lied, and now you're lying to try to cover it up, because you're too much of a weakling wuss to stand up and admit that either you lied, or miscalculated and made a mistake.  You're PATHETIC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right, because Forbes is known for not understanding financial matters, right?
> 
> LOL!    Your hypocrisy is growing even greater.
> 
> You start with an insane idea.  You get called on a lie.  You deny and dance around about your lie.  Then you call someone else names for what you claim was a lie.
> 
> If you are not paying the owners what financial experts say is the worth, and you are taking their property whether they want to sell or not, you are stealing it.  Period.
Click to expand...

Clueless.  Do I have to provide you the links of sportswriters who write that Forbes is clueless on major league baseball ?  ANd do I have to point out YET AGAIN ? ..that Forbes is talking about the CURRENT mish-mash of the money hustlers, WHICH DOESN'T MEAN A SPECK IN THE COSMOS TO ME.

EARTH TO YESTERDAYBORN:  Forbes are not "financial experts" regarding a community controlled baseball team.  Those duds have probably never even heard of the idea.  And again, amazingly   you are talking to me about stealing a team, which I specified in the OP should be BOUGHT, and then reprimanded you twice for lying that I had said to steal it, only to have you come in here now and LIE AGAIN by saying I was suggesting the team should be stolen, when I proved that FALSE twice just now, by posting both your FALSE words and my TRUE words. 

I think the time has come to report you again for trolling. Whether the weak-willed mods do anything or not, whatever, but you are clearly in the realm of major HARASSMENT, so reporting has to be done.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, what you have been saying is NOT the same as what Pogo said.   Pogo talked about fans buying the team.  That is not the same as being gov't owned.
> 
> In fact, you even said the same thing when you stated "You got 2 things wrong . 1.) I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise".
> 
> So no, you were NOT saying what Pogo said.
> 
> And yes, free agency is a part of baseball.  The governing body agrees it does.  The owners agree it does.  And the players agree it does.   You denying that it is valid is completely meaningless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Fundamentally, it is the same.  Bottom line > fans own the team (both cases)
> 
> 2.  Are you retarded ?  All you're talking about is the PRESENT, STUPIDLY MANAGED game of pro baseball. I'm talking about what it SHOULD BE, not what it is.  I already explained this free agency thing to you (twice I think).  For the 3rd time Mr. Dense,* IT DOESN'T MATTER* what the owners agree.  Or the governing body.  The most important element in this is THE FANS.  They are who make it all happen.  You can replace the owners.  YOu can relplace the governing bodies.  You can replace the players (I know some pretty good players who will play for $12/hour)   But you can't replace THE FANS.  Take them away from the stadiums and their TV sets, and you HAVE NO PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL.  Free agency is not valid because it is bad for the fans, and if baseball had been managed properly in the 70s, (by the FANS), free agency would have never come into existence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Whether the fans would have allowed free agency or not, it is a part of baseball now.  Unless you can get the rules changed.
Click to expand...


Unless I can get the rules changed.  HA HA HA!  Well that's what we've been talking about for over 200 posts now, haven't you noticed ?  ALL the rules. Pheeeeeww!!  (high-pitched whistle)  

EARTH TO YB:  It is a part of money-hustling, greed freaking, reckless, money-grabbing_ "baseball now"_  And that, and only that.  Nothing more.  Which doesn't rate for a hill of beans.  Is this starting to focus for you now


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> What??    The team being owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as the team being owned by the gov't?     That is absolutely ridiculous.



Not at all. Fundamentally, it is the same.  Bottom line > fans own the team (both cases)
Some people need to be told twice (or is it 3 ?, ; or 4 ? ; or 5 ?)


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just as I thought.  You are too much of a wimpy, jellyfish coward to admit you were wrong.
> 
> Here's YOUR words >  _"Someone stated that the Packers were* bought* by the fans. You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen. But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen. You have been saying you want the government to *steal* MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans* BUYING* the team from owners."_
> 
> Here's MY words (from the OP) >   _"For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought* by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.._"
> 
> And I didn't say I don't want to pay what the teams are worth.  I do want to the Counties (as I said in the OP) to buy the teams and I would want them to pay what they are worth. But just because you grab some idiotic number from Forbes magazine as being what the team is worth, that doesn't mean I have to accept it.  NO.  Of course I don't accept that moronic figure. Again you're putting words in my mouth all based on your wrong conceptions of what is and what should be, which means as much to me as a rock in the bottom of a pond.
> 
> Obviously, you lied, and now you're lying to try to cover it up, because you're too much of a weakling wuss to stand up and admit that either you lied, or miscalculated and made a mistake.  You're PATHETIC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right, because Forbes is known for not understanding financial matters, right?
> 
> LOL!    Your hypocrisy is growing even greater.
> 
> You start with an insane idea.  You get called on a lie.  You deny and dance around about your lie.  Then you call someone else names for what you claim was a lie.
> 
> If you are not paying the owners what financial experts say is the worth, and you are taking their property whether they want to sell or not, you are stealing it.  Period.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Clueless.  Do I have to provide you the links of sportswriters who write that Forbes is clueless on major league baseball ?  ANd do I have to point out YET AGAIN ? ..that Forbes is talking about the CURRENT mish-mash of the money hustlers, WHICH DOESN'T MEAN A SPECK IN THE COSMOS TO ME.
> 
> EARTH TO YESTERDAYBORN:  Forbes are not "financial experts" regarding a community controlled baseball team.  Those duds have probably never even heard of the idea.  And again, amazingly   you are talking to me about stealing a team, which I specified in the OP should be BOUGHT, and then reprimanded you twice for lying that I had said to steal it, only to have you come in here now and LIE AGAIN by saying I was suggesting the team should be stolen, when I proved that FALSE twice just now, by posting both your FALSE words and my TRUE words.
> 
> I think the time has come to report you again for trolling. Whether the weak-willed mods do anything or not, whatever, but you are clearly in the realm of major HARASSMENT, so reporting has to be done.
Click to expand...


I love that you call anyone who argues with you repeatedly as Troll.    If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

And I am not saying that Forbes knows about baseball.  I am saying they are experts on financial matters.  The worth of a MLB team, as a business, is purely a financial matter.  If you are going to BUY the team, you have to pay what the owner asks or what an expert deems the team to be worth.  

And since you are not even giving the owners a chance to refuse to sell, and you have repeatedly mocked Forbes assessment of a teams financial worth as astronomically high, you are advocating stealing the team.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> What??    The team being owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as the team being owned by the gov't?     That is absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. Fundamentally, it is the same.  Bottom line > fans own the team (both cases)
> Some people need to be told twice (or is it 3 ?, ; or 4 ? ; or 5 ?)
Click to expand...


Repeating a lie does not change the fact that it is a lie.

Your claim that fans buying stock is fundamentally the same a gov't takeover of MLB is ridiculous.   

A publically traded company is not the same as gov't property.  Whether there are fans in both camps is not relevant.  I'm sure the owners of MLB teams are fans too.  So, fundamentally, nothing would change.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Fundamentally, it is the same.  Bottom line > fans own the team (both cases)
> 
> 2.  Are you retarded ?  All you're talking about is the PRESENT, STUPIDLY MANAGED game of pro baseball. I'm talking about what it SHOULD BE, not what it is.  I already explained this free agency thing to you (twice I think).  For the 3rd time Mr. Dense,* IT DOESN'T MATTER* what the owners agree.  Or the governing body.  The most important element in this is THE FANS.  They are who make it all happen.  You can replace the owners.  YOu can relplace the governing bodies.  You can replace the players (I know some pretty good players who will play for $12/hour)   But you can't replace THE FANS.  Take them away from the stadiums and their TV sets, and you HAVE NO PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL.  Free agency is not valid because it is bad for the fans, and if baseball had been managed properly in the 70s, (by the FANS), free agency would have never come into existence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whether the fans would have allowed free agency or not, it is a part of baseball now.  Unless you can get the rules changed.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Unless I can get the rules changed.  HA HA HA!  Well that's what we've been talking about for over 200 posts now, haven't you noticed ?  ALL the rules. Pheeeeeww!!  (high-pitched whistle)
> 
> EARTH TO YB:  It is a part of money-hustling, greed freaking, reckless, money-grabbing_ "baseball now"_  And that, and only that.  Nothing more.  Which doesn't rate for a hill of beans.  Is this starting to focus for you now
Click to expand...


What we have been talking about is the ownership of MLB.   Once again, the two are not the same thing.  You could change ownership and never change a single rule.  In fact, free agency could well continue if all the teams were bought by the fans.  And rules change regularly, without a change in ownership.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> What??    The team being owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as the team being owned by the gov't?     That is absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. Fundamentally, it is the same.  Bottom line > fans own the team (both cases)
> Some people need to be told twice (or is it 3 ?, ; or 4 ? ; or 5 ?)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Repeating a lie does not change the fact that it is a lie.
> 
> Your claim that fans buying stock is fundamentally the same a gov't takeover of MLB is ridiculous.
> 
> A publically traded company is not the same as gov't property.  Whether there are fans in both camps is not relevant.  I'm sure the owners of MLB teams are fans too.  So, fundamentally, nothing would change.
> 
> A church in Cleveland is in the USA.  A brothel in Nevada is in the USA.  So fundamentally, they are the same.  Right?
> 
> Pure nonsense.
Click to expand...


I've reported you for your lies and harasssment. As for your idiotic posts, you've hung yourself enough already.  Just one look at *Post # 200 *  tells it all. I'm off now to other real threads, with real posters, posting real posts.  I've wasted enough time with your *NONSENSE.*


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. Fundamentally, it is the same.  Bottom line > fans own the team (both cases)
> Some people need to be told twice (or is it 3 ?, ; or 4 ? ; or 5 ?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Repeating a lie does not change the fact that it is a lie.
> 
> Your claim that fans buying stock is fundamentally the same a gov't takeover of MLB is ridiculous.
> 
> A publically traded company is not the same as gov't property.  Whether there are fans in both camps is not relevant.  I'm sure the owners of MLB teams are fans too.  So, fundamentally, nothing would change.
> 
> A church in Cleveland is in the USA.  A brothel in Nevada is in the USA.  So fundamentally, they are the same.  Right?
> 
> Pure nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've reported you for your lies and harasssment. As for your idiotic posts, you've hung yourself enough already.  Just one look at *Post # 200 *  tells it all. I'm off now to other real threads, with real posters, posting real posts.  I've wasted enough time with your *NONSENSE.*
Click to expand...


Reported me again?    LMAO!!!    Oh I am so scared.    You are pathetic.

But I understand why you want to stop posting here.  You have continued to make yourself look worse and worse as the thread went along.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right, because Forbes is known for not understanding financial matters, right?
> 
> LOL!    Your hypocrisy is growing even greater.
> 
> You start with an insane idea.  You get called on a lie.  You deny and dance around about your lie.  Then you call someone else names for what you claim was a lie.
> 
> If you are not paying the owners what financial experts say is the worth, and you are taking their property whether they want to sell or not, you are stealing it.  Period.
> 
> 
> 
> Clueless.  Do I have to provide you the links of sportswriters who write that Forbes is clueless on major league baseball ?  ANd do I have to point out YET AGAIN ? ..that Forbes is talking about the CURRENT mish-mash of the money hustlers, WHICH DOESN'T MEAN A SPECK IN THE COSMOS TO ME.
> 
> EARTH TO YESTERDAYBORN:  Forbes are not "financial experts" regarding a community controlled baseball team.  Those duds have probably never even heard of the idea.  And again, amazingly   you are talking to me about stealing a team, which I specified in the OP should be BOUGHT, and then reprimanded you twice for lying that I had said to steal it, only to have you come in here now and LIE AGAIN by saying I was suggesting the team should be stolen, when I proved that FALSE twice just now, by posting both your FALSE words and my TRUE words.
> 
> I think the time has come to report you again for trolling. Whether the weak-willed mods do anything or not, whatever, but you are clearly in the realm of major HARASSMENT, so reporting has to be done.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I love that you call anyone who argues with you repeatedly as Troll.    If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
> 
> And I am not saying that Forbes knows about baseball.  I am saying they are experts on financial matters.  The worth of a MLB team, as a business, is purely a financial matter.  If you are going to BUY the team, you have to pay what the owner asks or what an expert deems the team to be worth.
> 
> And since you are not even giving the owners a chance to refuse to sell, and you have repeatedly mocked Forbes assessment of a teams financial worth as astronomically high, you are advocating stealing the team.
Click to expand...


Another LIE from you.  One browse through my OPs and posts shows that I certainly don't call anyone who argues with me repeatedly a troll.  But go ahead and villainize me.  Maybe you don't have anything else better in life.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Clueless.  Do I have to provide you the links of sportswriters who write that Forbes is clueless on major league baseball ?  ANd do I have to point out YET AGAIN ? ..that Forbes is talking about the CURRENT mish-mash of the money hustlers, WHICH DOESN'T MEAN A SPECK IN THE COSMOS TO ME.
> 
> EARTH TO YESTERDAYBORN:  Forbes are not "financial experts" regarding a community controlled baseball team.  Those duds have probably never even heard of the idea.  And again, amazingly   you are talking to me about stealing a team, which I specified in the OP should be BOUGHT, and then reprimanded you twice for lying that I had said to steal it, only to have you come in here now and LIE AGAIN by saying I was suggesting the team should be stolen, when I proved that FALSE twice just now, by posting both your FALSE words and my TRUE words.
> 
> I think the time has come to report you again for trolling. Whether the weak-willed mods do anything or not, whatever, but you are clearly in the realm of major HARASSMENT, so reporting has to be done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love that you call anyone who argues with you repeatedly as Troll.    If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
> 
> And I am not saying that Forbes knows about baseball.  I am saying they are experts on financial matters.  The worth of a MLB team, as a business, is purely a financial matter.  If you are going to BUY the team, you have to pay what the owner asks or what an expert deems the team to be worth.
> 
> And since you are not even giving the owners a chance to refuse to sell, and you have repeatedly mocked Forbes assessment of a teams financial worth as astronomically high, you are advocating stealing the team.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Another LIE from you.  One browse through my OPs and posts shows that I certainly don't call anyone who argues with me repeatedly a troll.  But go ahead and villainize me.  Maybe you don't have anything else better in life.
Click to expand...


I know of at least 4 posters that you have accused of harassing you, when they were only arguing in one of your threads.

But go ahead and report me.  

And weren't you leaving?   Weren't you going looking for threads where your threats scare people?  Weren't you going to try and find a thread where your lies will be accepted?

See ya!!    I'm gonna hang around here and laugh at you.


----------



## Unkotare

WinterBorn said:


> Reported me again?    LMAO!!!    Oh I am so scared.    You are pathetic.
> 
> But I understand why you want to stop posting here.  You have continued to make yourself look worse and worse as the thread went along.





Par for the course. The old headcase gets excited when a new psychoactive drug kicks in, then gradually stops taking it until...well, you know...


----------



## Papageorgio

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all. Fundamentally, it is the same.  Bottom line > fans own the team (both cases)
> Some people need to be told twice (or is it 3 ?, ; or 4 ? ; or 5 ?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Repeating a lie does not change the fact that it is a lie.
> 
> Your claim that fans buying stock is fundamentally the same a gov't takeover of MLB is ridiculous.
> 
> A publically traded company is not the same as gov't property.  Whether there are fans in both camps is not relevant.  I'm sure the owners of MLB teams are fans too.  So, fundamentally, nothing would change.
> 
> A church in Cleveland is in the USA.  A brothel in Nevada is in the USA.  So fundamentally, they are the same.  Right?
> 
> Pure nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I've reported you for your lies and harasssment. As for your idiotic posts, you've hung yourself enough already.  Just one look at *Post # 200 *  tells it all. I'm off now to other real threads, with real posters, posting real posts.  I've wasted enough time with your *NONSENSE.*
Click to expand...


You are reporting him because he is kicking your ass in a debate? 


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love that you call anyone who argues with you repeatedly as Troll.    If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
> 
> And I am not saying that Forbes knows about baseball.  I am saying they are experts on financial matters.  The worth of a MLB team, as a business, is purely a financial matter.  If you are going to BUY the team, you have to pay what the owner asks or what an expert deems the team to be worth.
> 
> And since you are not even giving the owners a chance to refuse to sell, and you have repeatedly mocked Forbes assessment of a teams financial worth as astronomically high, you are advocating stealing the team.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another LIE from you.  One browse through my OPs and posts shows that I certainly don't call anyone who argues with me repeatedly a troll.  But go ahead and villainize me.  Maybe you don't have anything else better in life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I know of at least 4 posters that you have accused of harassing you, when they were only arguing in one of your threads.
> 
> But go ahead and report me.
> 
> And weren't you leaving?   Weren't you going looking for threads where your threats scare people?  Weren't you going to try and find a thread where your lies will be accepted?
> 
> See ya!!    I'm gonna hang around here and laugh at you.
Click to expand...


I'd ask why you ask these preposterpous questions, but ha ha, we all know the answer.  You're a troll whose ego has been bruised by my having handed you your ass so many times, in this thread (see Post # 200 for just one example), and a number of others, so unable to contain your rage, you just come flailing out with everything you've got (which is next to nothing), in a fruitless attempt to villainize me.  Well, you may hook in a few of the lesser brainpowered in his forum, but overall, most posters can assess your mindless trolling for what it is.


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reported me again?    LMAO!!!    Oh I am so scared.    You are pathetic.
> 
> But I understand why you want to stop posting here.  You have continued to make yourself look worse and worse as the thread went along.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Par for the course. The old headcase gets excited when a new psychoactive drug kicks in, then gradually stops taking it until...well, you know...
Click to expand...


Yeah, we know all right.  You're another troll whose butt I've whipped too many times, in the immigration thread (as well as a number of others who've also kicked you around in there).   And just like YesterdayBorn, you can't handle it either, so you come in here pretending to be cool.  HA HA HA.


----------



## protectionist

Papageorgio said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Repeating a lie does not change the fact that it is a lie.
> 
> Your claim that fans buying stock is fundamentally the same a gov't takeover of MLB is ridiculous.
> 
> A publically traded company is not the same as gov't property.  Whether there are fans in both camps is not relevant.  I'm sure the owners of MLB teams are fans too.  So, fundamentally, nothing would change.
> 
> A church in Cleveland is in the USA.  A brothel in Nevada is in the USA.  So fundamentally, they are the same.  Right?
> 
> Pure nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've reported you for your lies and harasssment. As for your idiotic posts, you've hung yourself enough already.  Just one look at *Post # 200 *  tells it all. I'm off now to other real threads, with real posters, posting real posts.  I've wasted enough time with your *NONSENSE.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are reporting him because he is kicking your ass in a debate?
Click to expand...


If you think this fool has kicked my ass in this thread (or any other) HA HA, you're in bad shape.  I kicked his ass just in one single post (# 200), obvious to any honest person.
Suck ups to the baseball owners, and people too young to remember the NORMAL baseball days, won't even know how in the dark they are.  YOU maybe ? 

Come to think of it, there are a few others whose butts I've kicked in here. Then they jump in to try and get revenge (and just make even bigger fools out of themselves than they already were).  Ho hum.  What else is new ?  Yawn *******


----------



## Unkotare




----------



## Papageorgio

protectionist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've reported you for your lies and harasssment. As for your idiotic posts, you've hung yourself enough already.  Just one look at *Post # 200 *  tells it all. I'm off now to other real threads, with real posters, posting real posts.  I've wasted enough time with your *NONSENSE.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are reporting him because he is kicking your ass in a debate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you think this fool has kicked my ass in this thread (or any other) HA HA, you're in bad shape.  I kicked his ass just in one single post (# 200), obvious to any honest person.
> Suck ups to the baseball owners, and people too young to remember the NORMAL baseball days, won't even know how in the dark they are.  YOU maybe ?
> 
> Come to think of it, there are a few others whose butts I've kicked in here. Then they jump in to try and get revenge (and just make even bigger fools out of themselves than they already were).  Ho hum.  What else is new ?  Yawn *******
Click to expand...


LOL! That's why you reported him, he is still here and his post is still here.

You crack me up!


----------



## bayoubill

wow... I can't hardly believe this dumb-fuck thread still has legs...


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


>



It looks like the cuckoo icons are referring to the guy in the picture.  Is that you, Uncletard ?  Yeah, he looks pretty flaked out all right.


----------



## protectionist

Papageorgio said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are reporting him because he is kicking your ass in a debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you think this fool has kicked my ass in this thread (or any other) HA HA, you're in bad shape.  I kicked his ass just in one single post (# 200), obvious to any honest person.
> Suck ups to the baseball owners, and people too young to remember the NORMAL baseball days, won't even know how in the dark they are.  YOU maybe ?
> 
> Come to think of it, there are a few others whose butts I've kicked in here. Then they jump in to try and get revenge (and just make even bigger fools out of themselves than they already were).  Ho hum.  What else is new ?  Yawn *******
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> LOL! That's why you reported him, he is still here and his post is still here.
> 
> You crack me up!
Click to expand...


Nice that you're happy, however you got that way.


----------



## protectionist

bayoubill said:


> wow... I can't hardly believe this dumb-fuck thread still has legs...



You can display your obliviousness.  No law against it.    You're as bad as your avatar (and that's BAD) Pheeeeww!! (high-pitched whistle)
Anybody else ?


----------



## WinterBorn

papageorgio said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> winterborn said:
> 
> 
> 
> repeating a lie does not change the fact that it is a lie.
> 
> Your claim that fans buying stock is fundamentally the same a gov't takeover of mlb is ridiculous.
> 
> A publically traded company is not the same as gov't property.  Whether there are fans in both camps is not relevant.  I'm sure the owners of mlb teams are fans too.  So, fundamentally, nothing would change.
> 
> A church in cleveland is in the usa.  A brothel in nevada is in the usa.  So fundamentally, they are the same.  Right?
> 
> Pure nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i've reported you for your lies and harasssment. As for your idiotic posts, you've hung yourself enough already.  Just one look at *post # 200 *  tells it all. I'm off now to other real threads, with real posters, posting real posts.  I've wasted enough time with your *nonsense.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> you are reporting him because he is kicking your ass in a debate?
> 
> 
> Sent from my ipad using an android.
Click to expand...


:d


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> i've reported you for your lies and harasssment. As for your idiotic posts, you've hung yourself enough already.  Just one look at *post # 200 *  tells it all. I'm off now to other real threads, with real posters, posting real posts.  I've wasted enough time with your *nonsense.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you are reporting him because he is kicking your ass in a debate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> :d
Click to expand...


Nothing dumber than a fool's follower.  We can guess that's what your :d stands for.
Post # 200 told it all.


----------



## Papageorgio

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are reporting him because he is kicking your ass in a debate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :d
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nothing dumber than a fool's follower.  We can guess that's what your :d stands for.
> Post # 200 told it all.
Click to expand...


Poor baby, you get your ass kicked in a debate, then you try to lie and deflect by accusing him of violating rules.

What a sad little bitch.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.


----------



## WinterBorn

Papageorgio said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> :d
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing dumber than a fool's follower.  We can guess that's what your :d stands for.
> Post # 200 told it all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor baby, you get your ass kicked in a debate, then you try to lie and deflect by accusing him of violating rules.
> 
> What a sad little bitch.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using an Android.
Click to expand...


I honestly believe that Protectionless think his threats of reporting people will scare someone into abandoning the discussion.

I wonder how many fools have fallen for it.


----------



## protectionist

Papageorgio said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> :d
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing dumber than a fool's follower.  We can guess that's what your :d stands for.
> Post # 200 told it all.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Poor baby, you get your ass kicked in a debate, then you try to lie and deflect by accusing him of violating rules.
> 
> What a sad little bitch.
Click to expand...


I'd ask you to justify your imbecile statement (totally disproved in just Post # 200 alone) if it wasn't so imbecile.  HA HA/ Nothing dumber than a fool's follower.  That would be you.  You're kicking your OWN ass right now.  THAT'S what's sad.  How very sad.  Bwa ha ha ha ha.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing dumber than a fool's follower.  We can guess that's what your :d stands for.
> Post # 200 told it all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor baby, you get your ass kicked in a debate, then you try to lie and deflect by accusing him of violating rules.
> 
> What a sad little bitch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'd ask you to justify your imbecile statement (totally disproved in just Post # 200 alone) if it wasn't so imbecile.  HA HA/ Nothing dumber than a fool's follower.  That would be you.  You're kicking your OWN ass right now.  THAT'S what's sad.  How very sad.  Bwa ha ha ha ha.
Click to expand...


If your claims of harassment had any merit, why have my posts stayed?    And why have none of the mods even sent me a msg asking me to stop?

It is simple.  Your claims have no merit.    Just like your claim that a team owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as a team owned by the gov't.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> I honestly believe that Protectionless think his threats of reporting people will scare someone into abandoning the discussion. I wonder how many fools have fallen for it.



No, you don't honestly believe that.  I wonder if you "honestly" do anything, as succumbed to your ego as you are.  I don't think you will ever abandon this discussion.  You're not able to.  You have to try to save face, even after you've hung yourself (as you did in Post # 192 ; which I exposed/refuted in Post # 200).  You figure, that's OK.  Your little mindless cheerleaders (like Papageorgio) probably won't even read those posts to see what a liar you are.  For all we know you might have even recruited him, since you're so concerned with this thread.  You're putting an awful lot of time in it, aren't you ?

  With an ego problem like you've got, maybe you ought to be talking to somebody else, rather than me, and your little cheerleaders. Seriously.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> Poor baby, you get your ass kicked in a debate, then you try to lie and deflect by accusing him of violating rules.
> 
> What a sad little bitch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd ask you to justify your imbecile statement (totally disproved in just Post # 200 alone) if it wasn't so imbecile.  HA HA/ Nothing dumber than a fool's follower.  That would be you.  You're kicking your OWN ass right now.  THAT'S what's sad.  How very sad.  Bwa ha ha ha ha.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If your claims of harassment had any merit, why have my posts stayed?    And why have none of the mods even sent me a msg asking me to stop?
> 
> It is simple.  Your claims have no merit.    Just like your claim that a team owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as a team owned by the gov't.
Click to expand...


We know that sometimes they act slowly.  They might still recognize your harassment/trolling.  

Also, your little theory assumes that the mods always get everything right.  We all know that's not true.  None of us are perfect.

And a team owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as a team owned by the gov't, because they are both owned by the fans, in one way or the other.  You need to have that explained to you repeatedly. Maybe after the 20th time or so, you'll get it.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd ask you to justify your imbecile statement (totally disproved in just Post # 200 alone) if it wasn't so imbecile.  HA HA/ Nothing dumber than a fool's follower.  That would be you.  You're kicking your OWN ass right now.  THAT'S what's sad.  How very sad.  Bwa ha ha ha ha.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If your claims of harassment had any merit, why have my posts stayed?    And why have none of the mods even sent me a msg asking me to stop?
> 
> It is simple.  Your claims have no merit.    Just like your claim that a team owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as a team owned by the gov't.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We know that sometimes they act slowly.  They might still recognize your harassment/trolling.
> 
> Also, your little theory assumes that the mods always get everything right.  We all know that's not true.  None of us are perfect.
> 
> And a team owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as a team owned by the gov't, because they are both owned by the fans, in one way or the other.  You need to have that explained to you repeatedly. Maybe after the 20th time or so, you'll get it.
Click to expand...


No, I do not need it explained repeatedly.  I understand that you make that ridiculous claim to try and save face.

It is utterly ridiculous to claim that this "fundamentally the same" is what you meant when you responded to Pogo's post.

And you have refuted nothing at all.


Oh, and this is not the first time you have claimed to have reported me to the mods.  And I have never heard from any of them since the initial welcome message.


----------



## Unkotare

Papageorgio said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Repeating a lie does not change the fact that it is a lie.
> 
> Your claim that fans buying stock is fundamentally the same a gov't takeover of MLB is ridiculous.
> 
> A publically traded company is not the same as gov't property.  Whether there are fans in both camps is not relevant.  I'm sure the owners of MLB teams are fans too.  So, fundamentally, nothing would change.
> 
> A church in Cleveland is in the USA.  A brothel in Nevada is in the USA.  So fundamentally, they are the same.  Right?
> 
> Pure nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've reported you for your lies and harasssment. As for your idiotic posts, you've hung yourself enough already.  Just one look at *Post # 200 *  tells it all. I'm off now to other real threads, with real posters, posting real posts.  I've wasted enough time with your *NONSENSE.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are reporting him because he is kicking your ass in a debate?
Click to expand...




If that's the standard, he must be one very busy old nut.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> If your claims of harassment had any merit, why have my posts stayed?    And why have none of the mods even sent me a msg asking me to stop?
> 
> It is simple.  Your claims have no merit.    Just like your claim that a team owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as a team owned by the gov't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We know that sometimes they act slowly.  They might still recognize your harassment/trolling.
> 
> Also, your little theory assumes that the mods always get everything right.  We all know that's not true.  None of us are perfect.
> 
> And a team owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as a team owned by the gov't, because they are both owned by the fans, in one way or the other.  You need to have that explained to you repeatedly. Maybe after the 20th time or so, you'll get it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, I do not need it explained repeatedly.  I understand that you make that ridiculous claim to try and save face.
> 
> It is utterly ridiculous to claim that this "fundamentally the same" is what you meant when you responded to Pogo's post.
> 
> And you have refuted nothing at all.
> 
> 
> Oh, and this is not the first time you have claimed to have reported me to the mods.  And I have never heard from any of them since the initial welcome message.
Click to expand...


1.  Yes you do.

2.  No you don't.

3.  No it isn't (and YOU KNOW it)

4.  Yes I have. (see Post # 200) 

5.  No it's not the first time (and probably won't be the last, since I report trolling, regardless of what the mods do or don't do)  

6.  Sez you. We'll never really know (or much care)


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> Papageorgio said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've reported you for your lies and harasssment. As for your idiotic posts, you've hung yourself enough already.  Just one look at *Post # 200 *  tells it all. I'm off now to other real threads, with real posters, posting real posts.  I've wasted enough time with your *NONSENSE.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are reporting him because he is kicking your ass in a debate?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If that's the standard, he must be one very busy old nut.
Click to expand...


A sure sign of idiocy.  Replying to idiocy, and agreeing with it.


----------



## Unkotare

http://www.nfap.com/researchactivities/studies/BaseballComing1006.pdf


"While politicians continue to debate immigration policies, there is little question among baseball
fans that immigrants have positively transformed America&#8217;s pastime. In the first comprehensive study of 
baseball and immigration, the National Foundation for American Policy examined both historical records 
and 2006 rosters. The report finds the impact of foreign-born players on major league baseball is at an 
all-time high. The study concludes Americans have benefited from our nation&#8217;s openness toward skilled
immigrant baseball players, just as the country has gained from the entry of other skilled foreign-born
professionals. "


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> We know that sometimes they act slowly.  They might still recognize your harassment/trolling.
> 
> Also, your little theory assumes that the mods always get everything right.  We all know that's not true.  None of us are perfect.
> 
> And a team owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as a team owned by the gov't, because they are both owned by the fans, in one way or the other.  You need to have that explained to you repeatedly. Maybe after the 20th time or so, you'll get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not need it explained repeatedly.  I understand that you make that ridiculous claim to try and save face.
> 
> It is utterly ridiculous to claim that this "fundamentally the same" is what you meant when you responded to Pogo's post.
> 
> And you have refuted nothing at all.
> 
> 
> Oh, and this is not the first time you have claimed to have reported me to the mods.  And I have never heard from any of them since the initial welcome message.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1.  Yes you do.
> 
> 2.  No you don't.
> 
> 3.  No it isn't (and YOU KNOW it)
> 
> 4.  Yes I have. (see Post # 200)
> 
> 5.  No it's not the first time (and probably won't be the last, since I report trolling, regardless of what the mods do or don't do)
> 
> 6.  Sez you. We'll never really know (or much care)
Click to expand...


You continue to lie.   If you thought that being owned by stockholders was the same as being owned by the gov't, you would never have said, *"I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise"*".    But you did.  You clearly delineated a line between private enterprise and being owned by the gov't.

And your repeated attempts to have post #200 mean something is ridiculous.

Yes, you talked about buying the teams.  But you ridiculed the amount they are worth, showing you thought they should be had for MUCH less.  And you didn't care whether the owners wanted to sell or not.    That, in my book, is the same as stealing.

If you didn't care you wouldn't continue to report people over and over and over.   And many times for doing nothing more than arguing with you.


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> http://www.nfap.com/researchactivities/studies/BaseballComing1006.pdf
> 
> 
> "While politicians continue to debate immigration policies, there is little question among baseball
> fans that immigrants have positively transformed Americas pastime. In the first comprehensive study of
> baseball and immigration, the National Foundation for American Policy examined both historical records
> and 2006 rosters. The report finds the impact of foreign-born players on major league baseball is at an
> all-time high. The study concludes Americans have benefited from our nations openness toward skilled
> immigrant baseball players, just as the country has gained from the entry of other skilled foreign-born
> professionals. "



This is what happens when crazy uncle trolls, start posting on the internet.  Too delerious to keep their trolling organized within forum guidelines, the meander from one thread they troll, into another one they troll, while posting about subject matter of the other thread they now are not in.

EARTH TO UNKOTARE:  This isn't the immigration thread that you consistently troll so much you've pushed it to over 2,000 posts.  This thread is about the relationship between MLB and MONEY, and the harmful effects that big money has had on the game.  

Here, lost one.  I will guide you back to your other troll thread.  Here it is >>  http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/349938-immigration-is-destroying-america-154.html#post9611439


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, I do not need it explained repeatedly.  I understand that you make that ridiculous claim to try and save face.
> 
> It is utterly ridiculous to claim that this "fundamentally the same" is what you meant when you responded to Pogo's post.
> 
> And you have refuted nothing at all.
> 
> 
> Oh, and this is not the first time you have claimed to have reported me to the mods.  And I have never heard from any of them since the initial welcome message.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Yes you do.
> 
> 2.  No you don't.
> 
> 3.  No it isn't (and YOU KNOW it)
> 
> 4.  Yes I have. (see Post # 200)
> 
> 5.  No it's not the first time (and probably won't be the last, since I report trolling, regardless of what the mods do or don't do)
> 
> 6.  Sez you. We'll never really know (or much care)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You continue to lie.   If you thought that being owned by stockholders was the same as being owned by the gov't, you would never have said, *"I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise"*".    But you did.  You clearly delineated a line between private enterprise and being owned by the gov't.
> 
> And your repeated attempts to have post #200 mean something is ridiculous.
> 
> Yes, you talked about buying the teams.  But you ridiculed the amount they are worth, showing you thought they should be had for MUCH less.  And you didn't care whether the owners wanted to sell or not.    That, in my book, is the same as stealing.
> 
> If you didn't care you wouldn't continue to report people over and over and over.   And many times for doing nothing more than arguing with you.
Click to expand...


Nice try, but it doesn't fly. 

1.  I said that stockholder ownership by fans and govt ownership is "fundamentally the same, and i say it again now.  And no, that's not a contradiction of the statement "_"I'm talking about the teams being govt owned, not "private enterprise"
_  Sure there's a line between private enterprise and being owned by the gov't.  So ?   Those are 2 separate sentences talking about two separate things, and as much as you'd like to, you can't weld them together in another one of your hapless attempts to disparage me.  Nice try.

2.  I didn't just "attempt"  to have post #200 mean something, I DID just that.  What it meant was that while you were calling me a liar, YOU WERE LYING.  And here it is again, for the whole word to see where you slipped up and fell right on your face >>
_______________________________________________

Just as I thought. You are too much of a wimpy, jellyfish coward to admit you were wrong.

Here's *YOUR words >* _"Someone stated that the Packers were bought by the fans. You stated that you had been telling me that was what should happen. But that was absolutely NOT what you had been saying should happen. You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners."_

Here's* MY words (from the OP) >* "_For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be *bought* by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."_

And I didn't say I don't want to pay what the teams are worth. I do want to the Counties (as I said in the OP) to* buy* the teams and I would want them to pay what they are worth. But just because you grab some idiotic number from Forbes magazine as being what the team is worth, that doesn't mean I have to accept it. NO. Of course I don't accept that moronic figure. Again you're putting words in my mouth all based on your wrong conceptions of what is and what should be, which means as much to me as a rock in the bottom of a pond.

Obviously, you lied, and now you're lying to try to cover it up, because you're too much of a weakling wuss to stand up and admit that either you lied, or miscalculated and made a mistake. You're PATHETIC.


----------



## protectionist

You also should apologize for FALSELY accusing me (_"You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners."_

When I clearly stated in the OP >>  "_"For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought *by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."
_

You would be much better off, and show you have at least SOME integrity,  if you just admitted that you spoke wrongly, APOLOGIZE, and clean up your not too clean ACT.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> You also should apologize for FALSELY accusing me (_"You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners."_
> 
> When I clearly stated in the OP >>  "_"For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought *by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."
> _
> 
> You would be much better off, and show you have at least SOME integrity,  if you just admitted that you spoke wrongly, APOLOGIZE, and clean up your not too clean ACT.



When you refuse to pay someone what their business is worth, and force them to sell to you and only you, I consider that theft.

And it is laughable that you demand an apology, when you have lied and refused to admit it.


----------



## Unkotare

The best players from around the world IMMIGRATE to the US to play MLB because the level of competitiveness has made it the best baseball in the world. Our free market system is a large part of this competitiveness. The juvenile dreams of some flaccid, wannabe communists would undermine the game for the sake of their own myopic stupidity.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You also should apologize for FALSELY accusing me (_"You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners."_
> 
> When I clearly stated in the OP >>  "_"For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought *by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."
> _
> 
> You would be much better off, and show you have at least SOME integrity,  if you just admitted that you spoke wrongly, APOLOGIZE, and clean up your not too clean ACT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you refuse to pay someone what their business is worth, and force them to sell to you and only you, I consider that theft.
> 
> And it is laughable that you demand an apology, when you have lied and refused to admit it.
Click to expand...


NO, oh spineless one.  You don't think it's_ "laughable"_ at all.  Not Hardly.  YOU KNOW damn well, that you've been lying all through this thread, by calling me a liar, and saying I suggested that the MLB teams be stolen, when it is clearly stated by me in the OP, and elsewhere that I suggested the teams be* bought*.  And even after posting the evidence of this (plain as day), you keep on lying that this is not so.  HA HA.  Well, it obviously IS so, and neither you or anyone can deny it, without making a complete idiot out of yourself, which is exacly what you're doing.

  If you had an ounce of decency, you'd APOLOGIZE.

  If you had an ounce of integrity, you'd APOLOGIZE.

  If you had an inch of backbone, you'd APOLOGIZE.

But *NO!!!!!*  You're too much of a phony wimp to do that.  You can keep up the ruse of validity, if that's what your shaky psyche requires of you, but every time you post, you just dig yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of foolishness.  End of day.....Not My Problem. 



YOU KNOW also that I am not asking anyone to sell to ME and only ME.  More of your straw men.  I never said anything like that.  The OP reads > _ "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought by the 3 counties* of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."_

Did you think I was the only resident of those 3 counties, Mr. Straw Man ?    And I never said the current owners wouldn't or shouldn't be paid what the teams are worth, YOU said that, Mr. Straw Man.  I DO suggest that they be paid EXACTLY what they're worth, not some ludicrous figure coming from the money hustlers and their mouthpiece, Forbes magazine.  

Face it, WinterBaby.  You screwed up royally in here, and the only way out of it for you, is to admit it, and walk away gracefully.  The more posts you post, the more victories over you, you hand me, on a silver platter.  I'm being gracious here.  I could post copies of every single one of your  posts that say I wanted to_ "steal"_ the team(s).  But I haven't done that to you, have I ?  So, you're welcome.  Now apologize, take a , pet a cat, take a nap, and you'll feel much better later.

Please don't make me have to sing that old Rolling Stones song to you.  You know.  The ones that goes > _*"Well I told you once, and I told you twice.  But you never listen to my advice."*_


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> The best players from around the world IMMIGRATE to the US to play MLB because the level of competitiveness has made it the best baseball in the world. Our free market system is a large part of this competitiveness. The juvenile dreams of some flaccid, wannabe communists would undermine the game for the sake of their own myopic stupidity.



The game is already being undermined and WRECKED, by the money hustler culture of the (in this case) MUCH TOO FREE market system. YOU don't get it. But this forum is also free.  So you are free to come here and talk like a fool.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You also should apologize for FALSELY accusing me (_"You have been saying you want the government to steal MLB from the owners. That is not the same as fans BUYING the team from owners."_
> 
> When I clearly stated in the OP >>  "_"For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought *by the 3 counties of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."
> _
> 
> You would be much better off, and show you have at least SOME integrity,  if you just admitted that you spoke wrongly, APOLOGIZE, and clean up your not too clean ACT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you refuse to pay someone what their business is worth, and force them to sell to you and only you, I consider that theft.
> 
> And it is laughable that you demand an apology, when you have lied and refused to admit it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NO, oh spineless one.  You don't think it's_ "laughable"_ at all.  Not Hardly.  YOU KNOW damn well, that you've been lying all through this thread, by calling me a liar, and saying I suggested that the MLB teams be stolen, when it is clearly stated by me in the OP, and elsewhere that I suggested the teams be* bought*.  And even after posting the evidence of this (plain as day), you keep on lying that this is not so.  HA HA.  Well, it obviously IS so, and neither you or anyone can deny it, without making a complete idiot out of yourself, which is exacly what you're doing.
> 
> If you had an ounce of decency, you'd APOLOGIZE.
> 
> If you had an ounce of integrity, you'd APOLOGIZE.
> 
> If you had an inch of backbone, you'd APOLOGIZE.
> 
> But *NO!!!!!*  You're too much of a phony wimp to do that.  You can keep up the ruse of validity, if that's what your shaky psyche requires of you, but every time you post, you just dig yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of foolishness.  End of day.....Not My Problem.
> 
> 
> 
> YOU KNOW also that I am not asking anyone to sell to ME and only ME.  More of your straw men.  I never said anything like that.  The OP reads > _ "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought by the 3 counties* of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."_
> 
> Did you think I was the only resident of those 3 counties, Mr. Straw Man ?    And I never said the current owners wouldn't or shouldn't be paid what the teams are worth, YOU said that, Mr. Straw Man.  I DO suggest that they be paid EXACTLY what they're worth, not some ludicrous figure coming from the money hustlers and their mouthpiece, Forbes magazine.
> 
> Face it, WinterBaby.  You screwed up royally in here, and the only way out of it for you, is to admit it, and walk away gracefully.  The more posts you post, the more victories over you, you hand me, on a silver platter.  I'm being gracious here.  I could post copies of every single one of your  posts that say I wanted to_ "steal"_ the team(s).  But I haven't done that to you, have I ?  So, you're welcome.  Now apologize, take a , pet a cat, take a nap, and you'll feel much better later.
> 
> Please don't make me have to sing that old Rolling Stones song to you.  You know.  The ones that goes > _*"Well I told you once, and I told you twice.  But you never listen to my advice."*_
Click to expand...


Wow, you have really lost your marbles, haven't you?

Yes, being forced to sell  and for a price well below what the team is worth is stealing the team.  And 3 counties or one county, or one federal representative, the point is that I could not find a higher bidder (like another owner) to make it a genuine sale.  It is theft.  Just like when they offer a pittance for land they are stealing via eminent domain.  It is theft.

But feel free to continue to tell us that being owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as being owned by the gov't.


And considering the number of times you have called me a troll, called me other names, or insinuated even worse, for you to call yourself "gracious" is a laugh.

Yes, you were advocating that the teams be *STOLEN* by gov't entities.   No choice but to sell to them at a price well below what they are worth.  And their worth, as determined by Forbes, was accurate.

What you would suggest they be paid would be ridiculously low, as evidenced by your statement in post #26  You have one definition of "owning". I have another. And as far as I'm concerned these MLB owners can take their millions and shove them.  

This is also evidence that you are perfectly fine with creating your own definitions.  But you insist no one else do the same.  My claim to what is "stealing" is certainly more accurate than your nonsense about "owners".  So spare yourself the additional hypocrisy, and apologize for the things you have said about me and admit you lied.



I'm having fun here, how about you??     But then, I never claimed I was done here or claimed I was leaving the conversation.  How about you?


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you refuse to pay someone what their business is worth, and force them to sell to you and only you, I consider that theft.
> 
> And it is laughable that you demand an apology, when you have lied and refused to admit it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO, oh spineless one.  You don't think it's_ "laughable"_ at all.  Not Hardly.  YOU KNOW damn well, that you've been lying all through this thread, by calling me a liar, and saying I suggested that the MLB teams be stolen, when it is clearly stated by me in the OP, and elsewhere that I suggested the teams be* bought*.  And even after posting the evidence of this (plain as day), you keep on lying that this is not so.  HA HA.  Well, it obviously IS so, and neither you or anyone can deny it, without making a complete idiot out of yourself, which is exacly what you're doing.
> 
> If you had an ounce of decency, you'd APOLOGIZE.
> 
> If you had an ounce of integrity, you'd APOLOGIZE.
> 
> If you had an inch of backbone, you'd APOLOGIZE.
> 
> But *NO!!!!!*  You're too much of a phony wimp to do that.  You can keep up the ruse of validity, if that's what your shaky psyche requires of you, but every time you post, you just dig yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of foolishness.  End of day.....Not My Problem.
> 
> 
> 
> YOU KNOW also that I am not asking anyone to sell to ME and only ME.  More of your straw men.  I never said anything like that.  The OP reads > _ "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought by the 3 counties* of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."_
> 
> Did you think I was the only resident of those 3 counties, Mr. Straw Man ?    And I never said the current owners wouldn't or shouldn't be paid what the teams are worth, YOU said that, Mr. Straw Man.  I DO suggest that they be paid EXACTLY what they're worth, not some ludicrous figure coming from the money hustlers and their mouthpiece, Forbes magazine.
> 
> Face it, WinterBaby.  You screwed up royally in here, and the only way out of it for you, is to admit it, and walk away gracefully.  The more posts you post, the more victories over you, you hand me, on a silver platter.  I'm being gracious here.  I could post copies of every single one of your  posts that say I wanted to_ "steal"_ the team(s).  But I haven't done that to you, have I ?  So, you're welcome.  Now apologize, take a , pet a cat, take a nap, and you'll feel much better later.
> 
> Please don't make me have to sing that old Rolling Stones song to you.  You know.  The ones that goes > _*"Well I told you once, and I told you twice.  But you never listen to my advice."*_
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wow, you have really lost your marbles, haven't you?
> 
> Yes, being forced to sell  and for a price well below what the team is worth is stealing the team.  And 3 counties or one county, or one federal representative, the point is that I could not find a higher bidder (like another owner) to make it a genuine sale.  It is theft.  Just like when they offer a pittance for land they are stealing via eminent domain.  It is theft.
> 
> But feel free to continue to tell us that being owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as being owned by the gov't.
> 
> 
> And considering the number of times you have called me a troll, called me other names, or insinuated even worse, for you to call yourself "gracious" is a laugh.
> 
> Yes, you were advocating that the teams be *STOLEN* by gov't entities.   No choice but to sell to them at a price well below what they are worth.  And their worth, as determined by Forbes, was accurate.
> 
> What you would suggest they be paid would be ridiculously low, as evidenced by your statement in post #26  &#8220;You have one definition of "owning". I have another. And as far as I'm concerned these MLB owners can take their millions and shove them.&#8221;
> 
> This is also evidence that you are perfectly fine with creating your own definitions.  But you insist no one else do the same.  My claim to what is "stealing" is certainly more accurate than your nonsense about "owners".  So spare yourself the additional hypocrisy, and apologize for the things you have said about me and admit you lied.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having fun here, how about you??     But then, I never claimed I was done here or claimed I was leaving the conversation.  How about you?
Click to expand...


Forbes is nothing but a shill for the money hustler grabby greed freaks that have ruined this country in many ways far beyond the world of baseball.  Their standards are designed of *them*, by *them*, and for* them*.  As such, thy are major departures fdrom reality and common sense.  You want to talk "WORTH", do you ?

  Coal miners who risk and sometimes lose their lives providing energy to keep America going, firefighters who risk and sometimes lose their lives, fighting fires and saving lives, and US troops on battefields (like those now bombing ISIS) risk and sometimes lose their lives, defending America and innocent people.  

 THESE are the WORTHY ones.  And they receive a microscopic fraction of income for what they do, compared to MLB's money hustlers and spoiled brat players, who (although they do provide a service to us) are worth a small fraction to us compared to those in the 3 occupations I just mentioned.

Maybe someday you'll get your head out of your ass on all this.  IN the meantime,the silver platter is getting less and less visible every day.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> NO, oh spineless one.  You don't think it's_ "laughable"_ at all.  Not Hardly.  YOU KNOW damn well, that you've been lying all through this thread, by calling me a liar, and saying I suggested that the MLB teams be stolen, when it is clearly stated by me in the OP, and elsewhere that I suggested the teams be* bought*.  And even after posting the evidence of this (plain as day), you keep on lying that this is not so.  HA HA.  Well, it obviously IS so, and neither you or anyone can deny it, without making a complete idiot out of yourself, which is exacly what you're doing.
> 
> If you had an ounce of decency, you'd APOLOGIZE.
> 
> If you had an ounce of integrity, you'd APOLOGIZE.
> 
> If you had an inch of backbone, you'd APOLOGIZE.
> 
> But *NO!!!!!*  You're too much of a phony wimp to do that.  You can keep up the ruse of validity, if that's what your shaky psyche requires of you, but every time you post, you just dig yourself deeper and deeper into the hole of foolishness.  End of day.....Not My Problem.
> 
> 
> 
> YOU KNOW also that I am not asking anyone to sell to ME and only ME.  More of your straw men.  I never said anything like that.  The OP reads > _ "For the Rays (similar scenario for other teams), I suggest that they be* bought by the 3 counties* of Pinellas, Hillsborough, and Manatee,.."_
> 
> Did you think I was the only resident of those 3 counties, Mr. Straw Man ?    And I never said the current owners wouldn't or shouldn't be paid what the teams are worth, YOU said that, Mr. Straw Man.  I DO suggest that they be paid EXACTLY what they're worth, not some ludicrous figure coming from the money hustlers and their mouthpiece, Forbes magazine.
> 
> Face it, WinterBaby.  You screwed up royally in here, and the only way out of it for you, is to admit it, and walk away gracefully.  The more posts you post, the more victories over you, you hand me, on a silver platter.  I'm being gracious here.  I could post copies of every single one of your  posts that say I wanted to_ "steal"_ the team(s).  But I haven't done that to you, have I ?  So, you're welcome.  Now apologize, take a , pet a cat, take a nap, and you'll feel much better later.
> 
> Please don't make me have to sing that old Rolling Stones song to you.  You know.  The ones that goes > _*"Well I told you once, and I told you twice.  But you never listen to my advice."*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you have really lost your marbles, haven't you?
> 
> Yes, being forced to sell  and for a price well below what the team is worth is stealing the team.  And 3 counties or one county, or one federal representative, the point is that I could not find a higher bidder (like another owner) to make it a genuine sale.  It is theft.  Just like when they offer a pittance for land they are stealing via eminent domain.  It is theft.
> 
> But feel free to continue to tell us that being owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as being owned by the gov't.
> 
> 
> And considering the number of times you have called me a troll, called me other names, or insinuated even worse, for you to call yourself "gracious" is a laugh.
> 
> Yes, you were advocating that the teams be *STOLEN* by gov't entities.   No choice but to sell to them at a price well below what they are worth.  And their worth, as determined by Forbes, was accurate.
> 
> What you would suggest they be paid would be ridiculously low, as evidenced by your statement in post #26  You have one definition of "owning". I have another. And as far as I'm concerned these MLB owners can take their millions and shove them.
> 
> This is also evidence that you are perfectly fine with creating your own definitions.  But you insist no one else do the same.  My claim to what is "stealing" is certainly more accurate than your nonsense about "owners".  So spare yourself the additional hypocrisy, and apologize for the things you have said about me and admit you lied.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having fun here, how about you??     But then, I never claimed I was done here or claimed I was leaving the conversation.  How about you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Forbes is nothing but a shill for the money hustler grabby greed freaks that have ruined this country in many ways far beyond the world of baseball.  Their standards are designed of *them*, by *them*, and for* them*.  As such, thy are major departures fdrom reality and common sense.  You want to talk "WORTH", do you ?
> 
> Coal miners who risk and sometimes lose their lives providing energy to keep America going, firefighters who risk and sometimes lose their lives, fighting fires and saving lives, and US troops on battefields (like those now bombing ISIS) risk and sometimes lose their lives, defending America and innocent people.
> 
> THESE are the WORTHY ones.  And they receive a microscopic fraction of income for what they do, compared to MLB's money hustlers and spoiled brat players, who (although they do provide a service to us) are worth a small fraction to us compared to those in the 3 occupations I just mentioned.
> 
> Maybe someday you'll get your head out of your ass on all this.  IN the meantime,the silver platter is getting less and less visible every day.
Click to expand...


I have not mentioned anything about the worth of human lives.  And since I have worked and risked my life on the job, I understand full well what those people do and what they risk.

But we are talking about the financial worth of a business.  Nothing more.

Do not try and confuse the issue.


----------



## Unkotare

Seems nobody's favorite demented old fool thinks he's writing Das Baseiball.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you have really lost your marbles, haven't you?
> 
> Yes, being forced to sell  and for a price well below what the team is worth is stealing the team.  And 3 counties or one county, or one federal representative, the point is that I could not find a higher bidder (like another owner) to make it a genuine sale.  It is theft.  Just like when they offer a pittance for land they are stealing via eminent domain.  It is theft.
> 
> But feel free to continue to tell us that being owned by stockholders is fundamentally the same as being owned by the gov't.
> 
> 
> And considering the number of times you have called me a troll, called me other names, or insinuated even worse, for you to call yourself "gracious" is a laugh.
> 
> Yes, you were advocating that the teams be *STOLEN* by gov't entities.   No choice but to sell to them at a price well below what they are worth.  And their worth, as determined by Forbes, was accurate.
> 
> What you would suggest they be paid would be ridiculously low, as evidenced by your statement in post #26  &#8220;You have one definition of "owning". I have another. And as far as I'm concerned these MLB owners can take their millions and shove them.&#8221;
> 
> This is also evidence that you are perfectly fine with creating your own definitions.  But you insist no one else do the same.  My claim to what is "stealing" is certainly more accurate than your nonsense about "owners".  So spare yourself the additional hypocrisy, and apologize for the things you have said about me and admit you lied.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm having fun here, how about you??     But then, I never claimed I was done here or claimed I was leaving the conversation.  How about you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forbes is nothing but a shill for the money hustler grabby greed freaks that have ruined this country in many ways far beyond the world of baseball.  Their standards are designed of *them*, by *them*, and for* them*.  As such, thy are major departures fdrom reality and common sense.  You want to talk "WORTH", do you ?
> 
> Coal miners who risk and sometimes lose their lives providing energy to keep America going, firefighters who risk and sometimes lose their lives, fighting fires and saving lives, and US troops on battefields (like those now bombing ISIS) risk and sometimes lose their lives, defending America and innocent people.
> 
> THESE are the WORTHY ones.  And they receive a microscopic fraction of income for what they do, compared to MLB's money hustlers and spoiled brat players, who (although they do provide a service to us) are worth a small fraction to us compared to those in the 3 occupations I just mentioned.
> 
> Maybe someday you'll get your head out of your ass on all this.  IN the meantime,the silver platter is getting less and less visible every day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I have not mentioned anything about the worth of human lives.  And since I have worked and risked my life on the job, I understand full well what those people do and what they risk.
> 
> But we are talking about the financial worth of a business.  Nothing more.
> 
> Do not try and confuse the issue.
Click to expand...


You haven't mentioned anything about the worth of human lives.  I HAVE.  Of course you haven't. Because to you, this is all in the limited context of how the greed freakos have got it all set up, and you're playing by THEIR rules, THEIR yardsticks, set up entirely by THEM, for THEIR benefit, much to the detriment of the fans.

Yes, we're talking about the financial worth of a business, And you're using the freakos yardstick, and I'm using common sense.  You can't seem to get your head out of the context of the owners' setup.  This is much wider than that.  So maybe it might help to point out the worth of the 2 sets of workers.  According to Wikipedia, the highest paid MLB player is Alex Rodriguez at $29 Million/year.  But what does he do for us ?  Swing a bat and hit home runs ?  Oh goodey.  In contrast, the coal miners, US troops, and firefighters, do far more important things for us, and receive about $29,000/year (.001 or 1/1000 of what Rodriguez gets).  That's it.  Don't give me any "that's because".  No, there is no "because", because that's only within the context of the money-hustlers' looney culture, which is simply nuts.  All your ideas about "worth" are THEIR ideas, set up by THEM, for THEM.  Invalid, and way out of normal.  Crazy.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Forbes is nothing but a shill for the money hustler grabby greed freaks that have ruined this country in many ways far beyond the world of baseball.  Their standards are designed of *them*, by *them*, and for* them*.  As such, thy are major departures fdrom reality and common sense.  You want to talk "WORTH", do you ?
> 
> Coal miners who risk and sometimes lose their lives providing energy to keep America going, firefighters who risk and sometimes lose their lives, fighting fires and saving lives, and US troops on battefields (like those now bombing ISIS) risk and sometimes lose their lives, defending America and innocent people.
> 
> THESE are the WORTHY ones.  And they receive a microscopic fraction of income for what they do, compared to MLB's money hustlers and spoiled brat players, who (although they do provide a service to us) are worth a small fraction to us compared to those in the 3 occupations I just mentioned.
> 
> Maybe someday you'll get your head out of your ass on all this.  IN the meantime,the silver platter is getting less and less visible every day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not mentioned anything about the worth of human lives.  And since I have worked and risked my life on the job, I understand full well what those people do and what they risk.
> 
> But we are talking about the financial worth of a business.  Nothing more.
> 
> Do not try and confuse the issue.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You haven't mentioned anything about the worth of human lives.  I HAVE.  Of course you haven't. Because to you, this is all in the limited context of how the greed freakos have got it all set up, and you're playing by THEIR rules, THEIR yardsticks, set up entirely by THEM, for THEIR benefit, much to the detriment of the fans.
> 
> Yes, we're talking about the financial worth of a business, And you're using the freakos yardstick, and I'm using common sense.  You can't seem to get your head out of the context of the owners' setup.  This is much wider than that.  So maybe it might help to point out the worth of the 2 sets of workers.  According to Wikipedia, the highest paid MLB player is Alex Rodriguez at $29 Million/year.  But what does he do for us ?  Swing a bat and hit home runs ?  Oh goodey.  In contrast, the coal miners, US troops, and firefighters, do far more important things for us, and receive about $29,000/year (.001 or 1/1000 of what Rodriguez gets).  That's it.  Don't give me any "that's because".  No, there is no "because", because that's only within the context of the money-hustlers' looney culture, which is simply nuts.  All your ideas about "worth" are THEIR ideas, set up by THEM, for THEM.  Invalid, and way out of normal.  Crazy.
Click to expand...


First of all, you are off topic with the discussion of the coal miners, soldiers and teachers.

Second of all, the reason one makes millions while the others make a living is quite simple.  It is the same reason that gold sells for $1,300 an ounce and copper sells for $3.14 a pound.    Copper is very handy and does more for us in our day to day lives.  But gold is much more rare, and so it demands a higher price.

Coal miners, fire fighters, teachers and soldiers are very valuable and make a much bigger contribution to our lives.  Alex Rodriguez has skills that only a handful of people on the planet possess, and he can sell them to the highest bidder.  Many people can be teachers, fire fighters, coal miners and soldiers.   It is the rarity that demands the higher salary.   None of this relates to the person's actual worth.  The worth of people is not measured in dollars.   But that is the yardstick by which we measure a business.

Now, as for the worth of a business, Forbes is one of the leading experts in financial matters.  And as such, they are qualified to determine the worth of a business.

The estimate that the Tampa rays are worth $486 million.

Here is a breakdown of how they came up with that figure:

$245 million - Sport (Portion of the franchises value attributable to revenue shared among all teams)

$122 million - Market (Portion of franchises value attributable to its city and market share).

$82 million  Stadium    (Portion of franchises value attributable to its stadium)

$37 million  Brand       (Portion of franchises value attributable to its brand)

$245 million + $122 million + $82 million + $37 million = $486 million.   And that is what the Tampa Rays are worth as a business.  And since we are talking about buying a business, that is the number to be used.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have not mentioned anything about the worth of human lives.  And since I have worked and risked my life on the job, I understand full well what those people do and what they risk.
> 
> But we are talking about the financial worth of a business.  Nothing more.
> 
> Do not try and confuse the issue.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't mentioned anything about the worth of human lives.  I HAVE.  Of course you haven't. Because to you, this is all in the limited context of how the greed freakos have got it all set up, and you're playing by THEIR rules, THEIR yardsticks, set up entirely by THEM, for THEIR benefit, much to the detriment of the fans.
> 
> Yes, we're talking about the financial worth of a business, And you're using the freakos yardstick, and I'm using common sense.  You can't seem to get your head out of the context of the owners' setup.  This is much wider than that.  So maybe it might help to point out the worth of the 2 sets of workers.  According to Wikipedia, the highest paid MLB player is Alex Rodriguez at $29 Million/year.  But what does he do for us ?  Swing a bat and hit home runs ?  Oh goodey.  In contrast, the coal miners, US troops, and firefighters, do far more important things for us, and receive about $29,000/year (.001 or 1/1000 of what Rodriguez gets).  That's it.  Don't give me any "that's because".  No, there is no "because", because that's only within the context of the money-hustlers' looney culture, which is simply nuts.  All your ideas about "worth" are THEIR ideas, set up by THEM, for THEM.  Invalid, and way out of normal.  Crazy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First of all, you are off topic with the discussion of the coal miners, soldiers and teachers.
> 
> Second of all, the reason one makes millions while the others make a living is quite simple.  It is the same reason that gold sells for $1,300 an ounce and copper sells for $3.14 a pound.    Copper is very handy and does more for us in our day to day lives.  But gold is much more rare, and so it demands a higher price.
> 
> Coal miners, fire fighters, teachers and soldiers are very valuable and make a much bigger contribution to our lives.  Alex Rodriguez has skills that only a handful of people on the planet possess, and he can sell them to the highest bidder.  Many people can be teachers, fire fighters, coal miners and soldiers.   It is the rarity that demands the higher salary.   None of this relates to the person's actual worth.  The worth of people is not measured in dollars.   But that is the yardstick by which we measure a business.
> 
> Now, as for the worth of a business, Forbes is one of the leading experts in financial matters.  And as such, they are qualified to determine the worth of a business.
> 
> The estimate that the Tampa rays are worth $486 million.
> 
> Here is a breakdown of how they came up with that figure:
> 
> $245 million - Sport (Portion of the franchises value attributable to revenue shared among all teams)
> 
> $122 million - Market (Portion of franchises value attributable to its city and market share).
> 
> $82 million  Stadium    (Portion of franchises value attributable to its stadium)
> 
> $37 million  Brand       (Portion of franchises value attributable to its brand)
> 
> $245 million + $122 million + $82 million + $37 million = $486 million.   And that is what the Tampa Rays are worth as a business.  And since we are talking about buying a business, that is the number to be used.
Click to expand...


Sure rarity is an element of worth.  But so is the value of the type of work done, aqnd the sacrifice of the worker.  In any event, the $$ discussed here have mostly to do with the way money hustlers organize and manipulate men and money, as opposed to the way responsible govt leaders, accountable to their constituents would  organize it all on much different levels and much differently, for the benefit of the public (fans), rather than some greed freaks trying to pocket as much dough as they can.

Since Forbes' "estimates"  are geared to the former, I have no interest in them and don't accept anything they say, and they are 100% irrelevant to me, as they should be to everyone. They are not a leading expert in financial matters here, other than within the greed freaks sphere of activity, which I regard as 100% irrelevant and worthless.


----------



## Unkotare

The greatest players from around the world would not IMMIGRATE here if not for the opportunity to be as well compensated for their unique talents as they can be within our competitive, capitalist system. America's pastime indeed.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't mentioned anything about the worth of human lives.  I HAVE.  Of course you haven't. Because to you, this is all in the limited context of how the greed freakos have got it all set up, and you're playing by THEIR rules, THEIR yardsticks, set up entirely by THEM, for THEIR benefit, much to the detriment of the fans.
> 
> Yes, we're talking about the financial worth of a business, And you're using the freakos yardstick, and I'm using common sense.  You can't seem to get your head out of the context of the owners' setup.  This is much wider than that.  So maybe it might help to point out the worth of the 2 sets of workers.  According to Wikipedia, the highest paid MLB player is Alex Rodriguez at $29 Million/year.  But what does he do for us ?  Swing a bat and hit home runs ?  Oh goodey.  In contrast, the coal miners, US troops, and firefighters, do far more important things for us, and receive about $29,000/year (.001 or 1/1000 of what Rodriguez gets).  That's it.  Don't give me any "that's because".  No, there is no "because", because that's only within the context of the money-hustlers' looney culture, which is simply nuts.  All your ideas about "worth" are THEIR ideas, set up by THEM, for THEM.  Invalid, and way out of normal.  Crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, you are off topic with the discussion of the coal miners, soldiers and teachers.
> 
> Second of all, the reason one makes millions while the others make a living is quite simple.  It is the same reason that gold sells for $1,300 an ounce and copper sells for $3.14 a pound.    Copper is very handy and does more for us in our day to day lives.  But gold is much more rare, and so it demands a higher price.
> 
> Coal miners, fire fighters, teachers and soldiers are very valuable and make a much bigger contribution to our lives.  Alex Rodriguez has skills that only a handful of people on the planet possess, and he can sell them to the highest bidder.  Many people can be teachers, fire fighters, coal miners and soldiers.   It is the rarity that demands the higher salary.   None of this relates to the person's actual worth.  The worth of people is not measured in dollars.   But that is the yardstick by which we measure a business.
> 
> Now, as for the worth of a business, Forbes is one of the leading experts in financial matters.  And as such, they are qualified to determine the worth of a business.
> 
> The estimate that the Tampa rays are worth $486 million.
> 
> Here is a breakdown of how they came up with that figure:
> 
> $245 million - Sport (Portion of the franchises value attributable to revenue shared among all teams)
> 
> $122 million - Market (Portion of franchises value attributable to its city and market share).
> 
> $82 million  Stadium    (Portion of franchises value attributable to its stadium)
> 
> $37 million  Brand       (Portion of franchises value attributable to its brand)
> 
> $245 million + $122 million + $82 million + $37 million = $486 million.   And that is what the Tampa Rays are worth as a business.  And since we are talking about buying a business, that is the number to be used.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure rarity is an element of worth.  But so is the value of the type of work done, aqnd the sacrifice of the worker.  In any event, the $$ discussed here have mostly to do with the way money hustlers organize and manipulate men and money, as opposed to the way responsible govt leaders, accountable to their constituents would  organize it all on much different levels and much differently, for the benefit of the public (fans), rather than some greed freaks trying to pocket as much dough as they can.
> 
> Since Forbes' "estimates"  are geared to the former, I have no interest in them and don't accept anything they say, and they are 100% irrelevant to me, as they should be to everyone. They are not a leading expert in financial matters here, other than within the greed freaks sphere of activity, which I regard as 100% irrelevant and worthless.
Click to expand...


And how would you determine the worth of the teams to be "purchased" by gov't entities?

For example, how much do you think the 3 counties should pay (combined) for the Tampa Rays?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You haven't mentioned anything about the worth of human lives.  I HAVE.  Of course you haven't. Because to you, this is all in the limited context of how the greed freakos have got it all set up, and you're playing by THEIR rules, THEIR yardsticks, set up entirely by THEM, for THEIR benefit, much to the detriment of the fans.
> 
> Yes, we're talking about the financial worth of a business, And you're using the freakos yardstick, and I'm using common sense.  You can't seem to get your head out of the context of the owners' setup.  This is much wider than that.  So maybe it might help to point out the worth of the 2 sets of workers.  According to Wikipedia, the highest paid MLB player is Alex Rodriguez at $29 Million/year.  But what does he do for us ?  Swing a bat and hit home runs ?  Oh goodey.  In contrast, the coal miners, US troops, and firefighters, do far more important things for us, and receive about $29,000/year (.001 or 1/1000 of what Rodriguez gets).  That's it.  Don't give me any "that's because".  No, there is no "because", because that's only within the context of the money-hustlers' looney culture, which is simply nuts.  All your ideas about "worth" are THEIR ideas, set up by THEM, for THEM.  Invalid, and way out of normal.  Crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, you are off topic with the discussion of the coal miners, soldiers and teachers.
> 
> Second of all, the reason one makes millions while the others make a living is quite simple.  It is the same reason that gold sells for $1,300 an ounce and copper sells for $3.14 a pound.    Copper is very handy and does more for us in our day to day lives.  But gold is much more rare, and so it demands a higher price.
> 
> Coal miners, fire fighters, teachers and soldiers are very valuable and make a much bigger contribution to our lives.  Alex Rodriguez has skills that only a handful of people on the planet possess, and he can sell them to the highest bidder.  Many people can be teachers, fire fighters, coal miners and soldiers.   It is the rarity that demands the higher salary.   None of this relates to the person's actual worth.  The worth of people is not measured in dollars.   But that is the yardstick by which we measure a business.
> 
> Now, as for the worth of a business, Forbes is one of the leading experts in financial matters.  And as such, they are qualified to determine the worth of a business.
> 
> The estimate that the Tampa rays are worth $486 million.
> 
> Here is a breakdown of how they came up with that figure:
> 
> $245 million - Sport (Portion of the franchises value attributable to revenue shared among all teams)
> 
> $122 million - Market (Portion of franchises value attributable to its city and market share).
> 
> $82 million  Stadium    (Portion of franchises value attributable to its stadium)
> 
> $37 million  Brand       (Portion of franchises value attributable to its brand)
> 
> $245 million + $122 million + $82 million + $37 million = $486 million.   And that is what the Tampa Rays are worth as a business.  And since we are talking about buying a business, that is the number to be used.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure rarity is an element of worth.  But so is the value of the type of work done, aqnd the sacrifice of the worker.  In any event, the $$ discussed here have mostly to do with the way money hustlers organize and manipulate men and money, as opposed to the way responsible govt leaders, accountable to their constituents would  organize it all on much different levels and much differently, for the benefit of the public (fans), rather than some greed freaks trying to pocket as much dough as they can.
> 
> Since Forbes' "estimates"  are geared to the former, I have no interest in them and don't accept anything they say, and they are 100% irrelevant to me, as they should be to everyone. They are not a leading expert in financial matters here, other than within the greed freaks sphere of activity, which I regard as 100% irrelevant and worthless.
Click to expand...


"...responsible govt leaders, accountable to their constituents..."

What???   Responsible gov't leaders??  Accountable to their constituents??  lol   And where do you propose to find any of those??

Just an FYI, the MBL teams are legitimate businesses.  They survive by making a profit.  They provide entertainment in exchange for profits.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, you are off topic with the discussion of the coal miners, soldiers and teachers.
> 
> Second of all, the reason one makes millions while the others make a living is quite simple.  It is the same reason that gold sells for $1,300 an ounce and copper sells for $3.14 a pound.    Copper is very handy and does more for us in our day to day lives.  But gold is much more rare, and so it demands a higher price.
> 
> Coal miners, fire fighters, teachers and soldiers are very valuable and make a much bigger contribution to our lives.  Alex Rodriguez has skills that only a handful of people on the planet possess, and he can sell them to the highest bidder.  Many people can be teachers, fire fighters, coal miners and soldiers.   It is the rarity that demands the higher salary.   None of this relates to the person's actual worth.  The worth of people is not measured in dollars.   But that is the yardstick by which we measure a business.
> 
> Now, as for the worth of a business, Forbes is one of the leading experts in financial matters.  And as such, they are qualified to determine the worth of a business.
> 
> The estimate that the Tampa rays are worth $486 million.
> 
> Here is a breakdown of how they came up with that figure:
> 
> $245 million - Sport (Portion of the franchises value attributable to revenue shared among all teams)
> 
> $122 million - Market (Portion of franchises value attributable to its city and market share).
> 
> $82 million &#8211; Stadium    (Portion of franchises value attributable to its stadium)
> 
> $37 million &#8211; Brand       (Portion of franchises value attributable to its brand)
> 
> $245 million + $122 million + $82 million + $37 million = $486 million.   And that is what the Tampa Rays are worth as a business.  And since we are talking about buying a business, that is the number to be used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure rarity is an element of worth.  But so is the value of the type of work done, aqnd the sacrifice of the worker.  In any event, the $$ discussed here have mostly to do with the way money hustlers organize and manipulate men and money, as opposed to the way responsible govt leaders, accountable to their constituents would  organize it all on much different levels and much differently, for the benefit of the public (fans), rather than some greed freaks trying to pocket as much dough as they can.
> 
> Since Forbes' "estimates"  are geared to the former, I have no interest in them and don't accept anything they say, and they are 100% irrelevant to me, as they should be to everyone. They are not a leading expert in financial matters here, other than within the greed freaks sphere of activity, which I regard as 100% irrelevant and worthless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And how would you determine the worth of the teams to be "purchased" by gov't entities?
> 
> For example, how much do you think the 3 counties should pay (combined) for the Tampa Rays?
Click to expand...


I don't know.  The county commissioners would come up with an amount.  That's their job.   I do know it would be a lot less than the idiotic figure cited by the mouthpiece magazine.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sure rarity is an element of worth.  But so is the value of the type of work done, aqnd the sacrifice of the worker.  In any event, the $$ discussed here have mostly to do with the way money hustlers organize and manipulate men and money, as opposed to the way responsible govt leaders, accountable to their constituents would  organize it all on much different levels and much differently, for the benefit of the public (fans), rather than some greed freaks trying to pocket as much dough as they can.
> 
> Since Forbes' "estimates"  are geared to the former, I have no interest in them and don't accept anything they say, and they are 100% irrelevant to me, as they should be to everyone. They are not a leading expert in financial matters here, other than within the greed freaks sphere of activity, which I regard as 100% irrelevant and worthless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And how would you determine the worth of the teams to be "purchased" by gov't entities?
> 
> For example, how much do you think the 3 counties should pay (combined) for the Tampa Rays?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't know.  The county commissioners would come up with an amount.  That's their job.   I do know it would be a lot less than the idiotic figure cited by the mouthpiece magazine.
Click to expand...


Right.  So you claim Forbes is part of some vast money-grubbing conspiracy, but you have no clue how to place a value on a business.

Figures.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, you are off topic with the discussion of the coal miners, soldiers and teachers.
> 
> Second of all, the reason one makes millions while the others make a living is quite simple.  It is the same reason that gold sells for $1,300 an ounce and copper sells for $3.14 a pound.    Copper is very handy and does more for us in our day to day lives.  But gold is much more rare, and so it demands a higher price.
> 
> Coal miners, fire fighters, teachers and soldiers are very valuable and make a much bigger contribution to our lives.  Alex Rodriguez has skills that only a handful of people on the planet possess, and he can sell them to the highest bidder.  Many people can be teachers, fire fighters, coal miners and soldiers.   It is the rarity that demands the higher salary.   None of this relates to the person's actual worth.  The worth of people is not measured in dollars.   But that is the yardstick by which we measure a business.
> 
> Now, as for the worth of a business, Forbes is one of the leading experts in financial matters.  And as such, they are qualified to determine the worth of a business.
> 
> The estimate that the Tampa rays are worth $486 million.
> 
> Here is a breakdown of how they came up with that figure:
> 
> $245 million - Sport (Portion of the franchises value attributable to revenue shared among all teams)
> 
> $122 million - Market (Portion of franchises value attributable to its city and market share).
> 
> $82 million &#8211; Stadium    (Portion of franchises value attributable to its stadium)
> 
> $37 million &#8211; Brand       (Portion of franchises value attributable to its brand)
> 
> $245 million + $122 million + $82 million + $37 million = $486 million.   And that is what the Tampa Rays are worth as a business.  And since we are talking about buying a business, that is the number to be used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure rarity is an element of worth.  But so is the value of the type of work done, aqnd the sacrifice of the worker.  In any event, the $$ discussed here have mostly to do with the way money hustlers organize and manipulate men and money, as opposed to the way responsible govt leaders, accountable to their constituents would  organize it all on much different levels and much differently, for the benefit of the public (fans), rather than some greed freaks trying to pocket as much dough as they can.
> 
> Since Forbes' "estimates"  are geared to the former, I have no interest in them and don't accept anything they say, and they are 100% irrelevant to me, as they should be to everyone. They are not a leading expert in financial matters here, other than within the greed freaks sphere of activity, which I regard as 100% irrelevant and worthless.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "...responsible govt leaders, accountable to their constituents..."
> 
> What???   Responsible gov't leaders??  Accountable to their constituents??  lol   And where do you propose to find any of those??
> 
> Just an FYI, the MBL teams are legitimate businesses.  They survive by making a profit.  They provide entertainment in exchange for profits.
Click to expand...


 They are _"legitimate"_ businesses by YOUR standards maybe. Certainly not by mine.  The whole league (American & National) is highly ILlegitimate, I would say.  As for govt leaders, they are as accountable to us as we make them be.  The squeaky wheel gets the grease.  When we citizens band together to make a pressure group, they respond.  If we're silent, they assume everything is OK and that we're happy with the status quo.  And they probably have every right to think that, under those circumstances.

_"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is that good men do nothing."  _(Edmund Burke)
[/COLOR][/I]


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> And how would you determine the worth of the teams to be "purchased" by gov't entities?
> 
> For example, how much do you think the 3 counties should pay (combined) for the Tampa Rays?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know.  The county commissioners would come up with an amount.  That's their job.   I do know it would be a lot less than the idiotic figure cited by the mouthpiece magazine.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Right.  So you claim Forbes is part of some vast money-grubbing conspiracy, but you have no clue how to place a value on a business.
> 
> Figures.
Click to expand...


I don't HAVE to.  That's not my job. And I didn't say I had _"no clue"_ (you said that).  I said >> _"it would be a lot less than the idiotic figure cited by the mouthpiece magazine."_  There's your clue.


----------



## Unkotare

Funny how someone who couldn't run a garden hose pretends to know ANYTHING about running a multi-billion dollar business, and then advocates destroying the entire economic system in which such a business is possible in the first place. 


It's like a pyro-maniac pretending to be an expert on building construction while urging everyone to live outside in tents.


----------



## Unkotare

Funny how someone who couldn't run a garden hose pretends to know ANYTHING about running a multi-billion dollar business, and then advocates destroying the entire economic system in which such a business is possible in the first place. 


It's like a pyro-maniac pretending to be an expert on building construction while urging everyone to live outside in tents.


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> Funny how someone who couldn't run a garden hose pretends to know ANYTHING about running a multi-billion dollar business, and then advocates destroying the entire economic system in which such a business is possible in the first place. It's like a pyro-maniac pretending to be an expert on building construction while urging everyone to live outside in tents.



NO, it's not anything like that.  Now go back to your attic, crazy uncle.


----------



## WinterBorn

Rays owner: No regrets over trading David Price

Interesting article about the David Price trade.  I didn't realize that Price's contract was up and he would be a free agent next year.  No wonder they traded him.  Otherwise they would have lost considerable value.

"For Sternberg and the Rays, moves like that are of what the small-market franchise has to do to stay competitive, even if it means sending away stars."    Knowing your market is an important factor.

""With David it wasn't three, four, five, eight guys and I think people got that and understood that we're still in it to win it," Sternberg said. "It really was the classic one-eye-on-the-present, one-eye-on-the-future kind of deal.""


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> Rays owner: No regrets over trading David Price
> 
> Interesting article about the David Price trade.  I didn't realize that Price's contract was up and he would be a free agent next year.  No wonder they traded him.  Otherwise they would have lost considerable value.
> 
> "For Sternberg and the Rays, moves like that are of what the small-market franchise has to do to stay competitive, even if it means sending away stars."    Knowing your market is an important factor.
> 
> ""With David it wasn't three, four, five, eight guys and I think people got that and understood that we're still in it to win it," Sternberg said. "It really was the classic one-eye-on-the-present, one-eye-on-the-future kind of deal.""



Money-hustler culture context, and nothing but.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rays owner: No regrets over trading David Price
> 
> Interesting article about the David Price trade.  I didn't realize that Price's contract was up and he would be a free agent next year.  No wonder they traded him.  Otherwise they would have lost considerable value.
> 
> "For Sternberg and the Rays, moves like that are of what the small-market franchise has to do to stay competitive, even if it means sending away stars."    Knowing your market is an important factor.
> 
> ""With David it wasn't three, four, five, eight guys and I think people got that and understood that we're still in it to win it," Sternberg said. "It really was the classic one-eye-on-the-present, one-eye-on-the-future kind of deal.""
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Money-hustler culture context, and nothing but.
Click to expand...


So you are saying they should have kept him for one more year and had him leave without gaining anything in a trade??    You consider THAT a good way to run a team?


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Rays owner: No regrets over trading David Price
> 
> Interesting article about the David Price trade.  I didn't realize that Price's contract was up and he would be a free agent next year.  No wonder they traded him.  Otherwise they would have lost considerable value.
> 
> "For Sternberg and the Rays, moves like that are of what the small-market franchise has to do to stay competitive, even if it means sending away stars."    Knowing your market is an important factor.
> 
> ""With David it wasn't three, four, five, eight guys and I think people got that and understood that we're still in it to win it," Sternberg said. "It really was the classic one-eye-on-the-present, one-eye-on-the-future kind of deal.""
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Money-hustler culture context, and nothing but.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you are saying they should have kept him for one more year and had him leave without gaining anything in a trade??    You consider THAT a good way to run a team?
Click to expand...


No I'm saying they should have kept him until he RETIRES (maybe 15 years from now)


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Money-hustler culture context, and nothing but.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying they should have kept him for one more year and had him leave without gaining anything in a trade??    You consider THAT a good way to run a team?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No I'm saying they should have kept him until he RETIRES (maybe 15 years from now)
Click to expand...


So you want to force him to play where YOU want, not where he can make the most money or where he has the best shot at being part of winning a World Series?

It is so good of you to care so deeply about the players.   lol


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you are saying they should have kept him for one more year and had him leave without gaining anything in a trade??    You consider THAT a good way to run a team?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm saying they should have kept him until he RETIRES (maybe 15 years from now)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So you want to force him to play where YOU want, not where he can make the most money or where he has the best shot at being part of winning a World Series?
> 
> It is so good of you to care so deeply about the players.   lol
Click to expand...


That's true.  It is good of me to care about the players like David Price, who absolutely did NOT want to leave the Rays.  And with him on the roster, the Rays had as good a chance to win the World Series as any team in baseball, while just before the trade the Rays had the best record in baseball, over the preceding 30 games (going back to June 10).. It's also noteworthy that the Rays beat the Tigers (team Price went to) 3 out of 4, in the last series the two teams played each other.

Also, I'm as just as concerned with the FANS (who you DON'T seem _"to care so deeply about"_) as I am with the players, if not more so, as it should be.  

And I DELETED your PM to the trash can, without reading it, of course. LOL.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm saying they should have kept him until he RETIRES (maybe 15 years from now)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you want to force him to play where YOU want, not where he can make the most money or where he has the best shot at being part of winning a World Series?
> 
> It is so good of you to care so deeply about the players.   lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's true.  It is good of me to care about the players like David Price, who absolutely did NOT want to leave the Rays.  And with him on the roster, the Rays had as good a chance to win the World Series as any team in baseball, while just before the trade the Rays had the best record in baseball, over the preceding 30 games (going back to June 10).. It's also noteworthy that the Rays beat the Tigers (team Price went to) 3 out of 4, in the last series the two teams played each other.
> 
> Also, I'm as just as concerned with the FANS (who you DON'T seem _"to care so deeply about"_) as I am with the players, if not more so, as it should be.
Click to expand...


No, you are NOT concerned about the players if you think the answer is locking a player in on just one team for his entire career.  And Tampa couldn't have afforded Price next year.  So he would have been gone anyway.  

The fans are fine.  I have no problem with the fans.  At least not until the become sanctimonious whiners who demand things be their way or the owners (who invested millions of their own money) should lose their team and the players should play for 1/10th of what they currently make.   Or the fans who demand things go back to the way they used to be in some marvelous past viewed thru rose-colored glasses.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you want to force him to play where YOU want, not where he can make the most money or where he has the best shot at being part of winning a World Series?
> 
> It is so good of you to care so deeply about the players.   lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's true.  It is good of me to care about the players like David Price, who absolutely did NOT want to leave the Rays.  And with him on the roster, the Rays had as good a chance to win the World Series as any team in baseball, while just before the trade the Rays had the best record in baseball, over the preceding 30 games (going back to June 10).. It's also noteworthy that the Rays beat the Tigers (team Price went to) 3 out of 4, in the last series the two teams played each other.
> 
> Also, I'm as just as concerned with the FANS (who you DON'T seem _"to care so deeply about"_) as I am with the players, if not more so, as it should be.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, you are NOT concerned about the players if you think the answer is locking a player in on just one team for his entire career.  And Tampa couldn't have afforded Price next year.  So he would have been gone anyway.
> 
> The fans are fine.  I have no problem with the fans.  At least not until the become sanctimonious whiners who demand things be their way or the owners (who invested millions of their own money) should lose their team and the players should play for 1/10th of what they currently make.   Or the fans who demand things go back to the way they used to be in some marvelous past viewed thru rose-colored glasses.
Click to expand...


Money-hustler culture context, and nothing but.

*100% IRRELEVANT!!!*


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's true.  It is good of me to care about the players like David Price, who absolutely did NOT want to leave the Rays.  And with him on the roster, the Rays had as good a chance to win the World Series as any team in baseball, while just before the trade the Rays had the best record in baseball, over the preceding 30 games (going back to June 10).. It's also noteworthy that the Rays beat the Tigers (team Price went to) 3 out of 4, in the last series the two teams played each other.
> 
> Also, I'm as just as concerned with the FANS (who you DON'T seem _"to care so deeply about"_) as I am with the players, if not more so, as it should be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are NOT concerned about the players if you think the answer is locking a player in on just one team for his entire career.  And Tampa couldn't have afforded Price next year.  So he would have been gone anyway.
> 
> The fans are fine.  I have no problem with the fans.  At least not until the become sanctimonious whiners who demand things be their way or the owners (who invested millions of their own money) should lose their team and the players should play for 1/10th of what they currently make.   Or the fans who demand things go back to the way they used to be in some marvelous past viewed thru rose-colored glasses.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Money-hustler culture context, and nothing but.
> 
> *100% IRRELEVANT!!!*
Click to expand...


Absolutely relevant.

I notice you weren't complaining when Tampa got Fernando Rodney, and he saved 24 games out of 25, and won a few awards.

You also didn't complain about Matt Joyce.  He turned out to be an All Star.

I bet you weren't complaining when Rafael Soriano was pitching and winning for Tampa.



In other words, you are fine with GETTING good players from other teams, but whine when your team's owner trades a good player before he loses him to free agency.

But I guess this is all money-hustler content too, huh?

News flash for you.   They call it *professional* baseball for a reason.  They play for money.  The teams exist to make money.  When the profits stop the team folds.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you are NOT concerned about the players if you think the answer is locking a player in on just one team for his entire career.  And Tampa couldn't have afforded Price next year.  So he would have been gone anyway.
> 
> The fans are fine.  I have no problem with the fans.  At least not until the become sanctimonious whiners who demand things be their way or the owners (who invested millions of their own money) should lose their team and the players should play for 1/10th of what they currently make.   Or the fans who demand things go back to the way they used to be in some marvelous past viewed thru rose-colored glasses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Money-hustler culture context, and nothing but.
> 
> *100% IRRELEVANT!!!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Absolutely relevant.
> 
> I notice you weren't complaining when Tampa got Fernando Rodney, and he saved 24 games out of 25, and won a few awards.
> 
> You also didn't complain about Matt Joyce.  He turned out to be an All Star.
> 
> I bet you weren't complaining when Rafael Soriano was pitching and winning for Tampa.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you are fine with GETTING good players from other teams, but whine when your team's owner trades a good player before he loses him to free agency.
> 
> But I guess this is all money-hustler content too, huh?
> 
> News flash for you.   They call it *professional* baseball for a reason.  They play for money.  The teams exist to make money.  When the profits stop the team folds.
Click to expand...


And all of that is why it all needs to be socialized by County govts.  You are making MY case, and doing a pretty good job of it.


----------



## Unkotare

Children having temper tantrums are not real sports fans.


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> Children having temper tantrums are not real sports fans.



So YOU'RE not a real sports fan ?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Money-hustler culture context, and nothing but.
> 
> *100% IRRELEVANT!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely relevant.
> 
> I notice you weren't complaining when Tampa got Fernando Rodney, and he saved 24 games out of 25, and won a few awards.
> 
> You also didn't complain about Matt Joyce.  He turned out to be an All Star.
> 
> I bet you weren't complaining when Rafael Soriano was pitching and winning for Tampa.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you are fine with GETTING good players from other teams, but whine when your team's owner trades a good player before he loses him to free agency.
> 
> But I guess this is all money-hustler content too, huh?
> 
> News flash for you.   They call it *professional* baseball for a reason.  They play for money.  The teams exist to make money.  When the profits stop the team folds.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And all of that is why it all needs to be socialized by County govts.  You are making MY case, and doing a pretty good job of it.
Click to expand...


No.  I am making the case that it is a professional sport and it is doing exactly as it should do.

I am also making the point that you like it when good players come TO Tampa, but throw a fit when they are traded away.

MLB is fine.  If you don't like it then watch something else.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely relevant.
> 
> I notice you weren't complaining when Tampa got Fernando Rodney, and he saved 24 games out of 25, and won a few awards.
> 
> You also didn't complain about Matt Joyce.  He turned out to be an All Star.
> 
> I bet you weren't complaining when Rafael Soriano was pitching and winning for Tampa.
> 
> 
> 
> In other words, you are fine with GETTING good players from other teams, but whine when your team's owner trades a good player before he loses him to free agency.
> 
> But I guess this is all money-hustler content too, huh?
> 
> News flash for you.   They call it *professional* baseball for a reason.  They play for money.  The teams exist to make money.  When the profits stop the team folds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And all of that is why it all needs to be socialized by County govts.  You are making MY case, and doing a pretty good job of it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No.  I am making the case that it is a professional sport and it is doing exactly as it should do.
> 
> I am also making the point that you like it when good players come TO Tampa, but throw a fit when they are traded away.
> 
> MLB is fine.  If you don't like it then watch something else.
Click to expand...


MLB is a train wreck.  It is a basket case no matter what direction players are moving, out or in.  I am much more concerned with the status of MLB than I am with the RAys and whether they win or not.  If I was as you said, then I would not be an ex-Rays fan now, when the Rays are winning games (this week).  But I AM an EX-Rays fan, because I'm an EX-MLB fan.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> And all of that is why it all needs to be socialized by County govts.  You are making MY case, and doing a pretty good job of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No.  I am making the case that it is a professional sport and it is doing exactly as it should do.
> 
> I am also making the point that you like it when good players come TO Tampa, but throw a fit when they are traded away.
> 
> MLB is fine.  If you don't like it then watch something else.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> MLB is a train wreck.  It is a basket case no matter what direction players are moving, out or in.  I am much more concerned with the status of MLB than I am with the RAys and whether they win or not.  If I was as you said, then I would not be an ex-Rays fan now, when the Rays are winning games (this week).  But I AM an EX-Rays fan, because I'm an EX-MLB fan.
Click to expand...


Well, if you are an EX-fan, then what the team does is none of your business.

You don't like the way things changed, so you quit watching.  That is the end of the story.  

Your fantasy of socialized sports is nonsense.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.  I am making the case that it is a professional sport and it is doing exactly as it should do.
> 
> I am also making the point that you like it when good players come TO Tampa, but throw a fit when they are traded away.
> 
> MLB is fine.  If you don't like it then watch something else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MLB is a train wreck.  It is a basket case no matter what direction players are moving, out or in.  I am much more concerned with the status of MLB than I am with the RAys and whether they win or not.  If I was as you said, then I would not be an ex-Rays fan now, when the Rays are winning games (this week).  But I AM an EX-Rays fan, because I'm an EX-MLB fan.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well, if you are an EX-fan, then what the team does is none of your business.
> 
> You don't like the way things changed, so you quit watching.  That is the end of the story.
> 
> Your fantasy of socialized sports is nonsense.
Click to expand...


1.  Anything involving the public in my county and the Tampa Bay area is my business.

2.  I quit watching now, but if what I proposed became law, I would watch again (under the proper circumstances).

3.  My suggestion of socialized sports is common sense and necessary.

Strike 1.  Strike 2.  Strike 3.   You're out.  NEXT BATTER!


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> MLB is a train wreck.  It is a basket case no matter what direction players are moving, out or in.  I am much more concerned with the status of MLB than I am with the RAys and whether they win or not.  If I was as you said, then I would not be an ex-Rays fan now, when the Rays are winning games (this week).  But I AM an EX-Rays fan, because I'm an EX-MLB fan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you are an EX-fan, then what the team does is none of your business.
> 
> You don't like the way things changed, so you quit watching.  That is the end of the story.
> 
> Your fantasy of socialized sports is nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1.  Anything involving the public in my county and the Tampa Bay area is my business.
> 
> 2.  I quit watching now, but if what I proposed became law, I would watch again (under the proper circumstances).
> 
> 3.  My suggestion of socialized sports is common sense and necessary.
> 
> Strike 1.  Strike 2.  Strike 3.   You're out.  NEXT BATTER!
Click to expand...


1. It is a privately owned business providing entertainment for spectators.  If you don't watch or own stock, it is not your business.

2. You quit watching.  End of discussion.  What you propose is ridiculous and will not become law.

3. You suggestion would ruin sports forever.  Unnecessary.

And that one is goooone!!!!   Homerun!!!!


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you are an EX-fan, then what the team does is none of your business.
> 
> You don't like the way things changed, so you quit watching.  That is the end of the story.
> 
> Your fantasy of socialized sports is nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Anything involving the public in my county and the Tampa Bay area is my business.
> 
> 2.  I quit watching now, but if what I proposed became law, I would watch again (under the proper circumstances).
> 
> 3.  My suggestion of socialized sports is common sense and necessary.
> 
> Strike 1.  Strike 2.  Strike 3.   You're out.  NEXT BATTER!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 1. It is a privately owned business providing entertainment for spectators.  If you don't watch or own stock, it is not your business.
> 
> 2. You quit watching.  End of discussion.  What you propose is ridiculous and will not become law.
> 
> 3. You suggestion would ruin sports forever.  Unnecessary.
> 
> And that one is goooone!!!!   Homerun!!!!
Click to expand...


As the Rock of WWE fame would say > *"IT DOESN'T MATTER"* what it IS,  what matters is what is should and needs to be.  And being a public spectacle on TV, it is EVERYBODY'S business.

I will watch MLB again when it is LIBERATED from the clutches of the money-hustler greed freaks.

Sports is ruined NOW.  It is necessary to liberate it, and make it a fan-friendly operation instead of the train wreck it is now.    NEXT BATTER!


----------



## Synthaholic

Huge salaries, which make ticket prices rise, are the problem with MLB.

When half the seats behind home plate at Yankee Stadium are empty when the Red Sox are there, there is something wrong.


----------



## bayoubill

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  Anything involving the public in my county and the Tampa Bay area is my business.
> 
> 2.  I quit watching now, but if what I proposed became law, I would watch again (under the proper circumstances).
> 
> 3.  My suggestion of socialized sports is common sense and necessary.
> 
> Strike 1.  Strike 2.  Strike 3.   You're out.  NEXT BATTER!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. It is a privately owned business providing entertainment for spectators.  If you don't watch or own stock, it is not your business.
> 
> 2. You quit watching.  End of discussion.  What you propose is ridiculous and will not become law.
> 
> 3. You suggestion would ruin sports forever.  Unnecessary.
> 
> And that one is goooone!!!!   Homerun!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> As the Rock of WWE fame would say > *"IT DOESN'T MATTER"* what it IS,  what matters is what is should and needs to be.  And being a public spectacle on TV, it is EVERYBODY'S business.
> 
> I will watch MLB again when it is LIBERATED from the clutches of the money-hustler greed freaks.
> 
> Sports is ruined NOW.  It is necessary to liberate it, and make it a fan-friendly operation instead of the train wreck it is now.    NEXT BATTER!
Click to expand...


you're obviously a wound-up dumb motherfucker 'bout the whole issue... I don't know where to begin to address it...

'course, then again, since you're obviously a dumb fuck who won't listen to anything sensible, why should I bother to waste my time on this...


----------



## protectionist

Synthaholic said:


> Huge salaries, which make ticket prices rise, are the problem with MLB.
> 
> When half the seats behind home plate at Yankee Stadium are empty when the Red Sox are there, there is something wrong.



Correct.  And this is a big part of the money-hustle culture that has taken over the game. And besides the ticket prices, are also much too-high prices for food, parking, souveniers, etc.  The whole thing has turned into a rich people's thing.


----------



## HUGGY

protectionist said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huge salaries, which make ticket prices rise, are the problem with MLB.
> 
> When half the seats behind home plate at Yankee Stadium are empty when the Red Sox are there, there is something wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.  And this is a big part of the money-hustle culture that has taken over the game. And besides the ticket prices, are also much too-high prices for food, parking, souveniers, etc.  The whole thing has turned into a rich people's thing.
Click to expand...


In three weeks no one will care.

The NFL regular season will be under way. 

You should consider putting this thread in the comedy forum.

This is some funny shit.


----------



## protectionist

HUGGY said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huge salaries, which make ticket prices rise, are the problem with MLB.
> 
> When half the seats behind home plate at Yankee Stadium are empty when the Red Sox are there, there is something wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.  And this is a big part of the money-hustle culture that has taken over the game. And besides the ticket prices, are also much too-high prices for food, parking, souveniers, etc.  The whole thing has turned into a rich people's thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In three weeks no one will care.
> 
> The NFL regular season will be under way.
> 
> You should consider putting this thread in the comedy forum.
> 
> This is some funny shit.
Click to expand...


Yeah ? What's so funny about it ?  I don't think it's funny. I'm pissed off about it.  I just wish there was somebody's fucking ass I could kick about it, and I'd kick it but good!!


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.  And this is a big part of the money-hustle culture that has taken over the game. And besides the ticket prices, are also much too-high prices for food, parking, souveniers, etc.  The whole thing has turned into a rich people's thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In three weeks no one will care.
> 
> The NFL regular season will be under way.
> 
> You should consider putting this thread in the comedy forum.
> 
> This is some funny shit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah ? What's so funny about it ?  I don't think it's funny. I'm pissed off about it.  I just wish there was somebody's fucking ass I could kick about it, and I'd kick it but good!!
Click to expand...


You want to know what has hurt baseball?   Options and preferences.

When baseball was at its greatest time, there were few other sports.  Now the NFL is huge and many people only watch baseball until football season starts.

People prefer football over baseball.  And there are so many other options for our entertainment dollar, fewer and fewer people want to watch baseball.   It is never going to be as popular as it was.

Now go kick your own ass for being a whiner.


----------



## Unkotare

Know what's funny? Some feeble, demented old clown pretending he could ever kick anyone's ass over anything. The fact that some lame brain would get so worked up about who gets traded to which MLB team is also funny, but not as funny as an ignorant, irrelevant buffoon whining about the very economic system that has allowed an inferior specimen such as him to survive this long. 

Lots of funny stuff. 

As for baseball, it will be fine. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but the sport is still an essential part of Americana.


----------



## Papageorgio

Baseball has lost viewers and interest. 

Baseball used to be America's pastime. Now, it is just pastime. They resist change and modernization, look replay and tell me MLB is on the cutting edge, their commissioner is retirng, finally, he is only 80!

Baseball is the third most popular sport behind football and basketball. 

It is not what it used to be, the youth in America are moving towards soccer in the summer, not baseball. The fans are watching football in the fall, not baseball. 

TV ratings are down, no personalities left to watch, no side storylines unless it's the tired PED BS. As far as I know, glasses are performance enhancing.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> In three weeks no one will care.
> 
> The NFL regular season will be under way.
> 
> You should consider putting this thread in the comedy forum.
> 
> This is some funny shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah ? What's so funny about it ?  I don't think it's funny. I'm pissed off about it.  I just wish there was somebody's fucking ass I could kick about it, and I'd kick it but good!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You want to know what has hurt baseball?   Options and preferences.
> 
> When baseball was at its greatest time, there were few other sports.  Now the NFL is huge and many people only watch baseball until football season starts.
> 
> People prefer football over baseball.  And there are so many other options for our entertainment dollar, fewer and fewer people want to watch baseball.   It is never going to be as popular as it was.
Click to expand...


NO, I don't want to know what has hurt baseball.   Because I ALREADY know.  And it is exactly what I've been talking about in this thread since the OP.  It is the 1994 MLB player's strike, the spoiled brat attitudes of pampered, overpaid players, free agency, things like the Price drop (notice I don't call it a "trade"), overinflated ticket prices, parking prices, concession prices, and the whole anti-fan, greed freak management of it.

In 2014, 35 percent of fans call the NFL their favorite sport, followed by Major League Baseball (14 percent), college football (11 percent), auto racing (7 percent), the NBA (6 percent), the NHL (5 percent) and college basketball (3 percent).

In 1985, the first year the poll was taken, the NFL bested MLB by just one percentage point (24 to 23 percent), but since then interest in baseball has fallen while the NFL has experienced a huge rise in popularity.

Nine percent fewer fans call baseball their favorite sport over the 30-year span, the biggest drop of any sport. The polling numbers suggest that the sport hasn't been able to recover from a popularity standpoint from 1994, when a strike forced the cancellation of the World Series.  And it has just continued sinking ever since, for the same basic reason > Greed freak baseball.

Harris Poll -- NFL still most popular; MLB 2nd - ESPN


----------



## protectionist

Unkotare said:


> Know what's funny? Some feeble, demented old clown pretending he could ever kick anyone's ass over anything. The fact that some lame brain would get so worked up about who gets traded to which MLB team is also funny, but not as funny as an ignorant, irrelevant buffoon whining about the very economic system that has allowed an inferior specimen such as him to survive this long.
> 
> Lots of funny stuff.
> 
> As for baseball, it will be fine. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but the sport is still an essential part of Americana.



 Know what's funny?  >>  A crazy uncle, who keeps escaping from the attic that his relatives keep him locked up in, then runs to the library to use a computer, so he can troll vent his rage at somebody who has bested him continually, in various threads.   Way to go, Uncletard!!  Give me hell, loonfool.


----------



## protectionist

Papageorgio said:


> Baseball has lost viewers and interest.
> 
> Baseball used to be America's pastime. Now, it is just pastime. They resist change and modernization, look replay and tell me MLB is on the cutting edge, their commissioner is retirng, finally, he is only 80!
> 
> Baseball is the third most popular sport behind football and basketball.
> 
> It is not what it used to be, the youth in America are moving towards soccer in the summer, not baseball. The fans are watching football in the fall, not baseball.
> 
> TV ratings are down, no personalities left to watch, no side storylines unless it's the tired PED BS. As far as I know, glasses are performance enhancing.



I wish you were right.  I'd love to see MLB fall on its face.  Unfortunately, you're wrong.  As I just stated in Post # 289, MLB is still the *second* most popular sport in America, still way ahead of basketball.  Baseball rates almost twice the popularity of the NBA and college basketball combined.  As for soccer, it doesn't even chart behind the pathetic 3% of college basketball (Harris Poll -2014)  You get E for effort though.  It's the thought that counts. 

Harris Poll -- NFL still most popular; MLB 2nd - ESPN


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah ? What's so funny about it ?  I don't think it's funny. I'm pissed off about it.  I just wish there was somebody's fucking ass I could kick about it, and I'd kick it but good!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want to know what has hurt baseball?   Options and preferences.
> 
> When baseball was at its greatest time, there were few other sports.  Now the NFL is huge and many people only watch baseball until football season starts.
> 
> People prefer football over baseball.  And there are so many other options for our entertainment dollar, fewer and fewer people want to watch baseball.   It is never going to be as popular as it was.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> NO, I don't want to know what has hurt baseball.   Because I ALREADY know.  And it is exactly what I've been talking about in this thread since the OP.  It is the 1994 MLB player's strike, the spoiled brat attitudes of pampered, overpaid players, free agency, things like the Price drop (notice I don't call it a "trade"), overinflated ticket prices, parking prices, concession prices, and the whole anti-fan, greed freak management of it.
> 
> In 2014, 35 percent of fans call the NFL their favorite sport, followed by Major League Baseball (14 percent), college football (11 percent), auto racing (7 percent), the NBA (6 percent), the NHL (5 percent) and college basketball (3 percent).
> 
> In 1985, the first year the poll was taken, the NFL bested MLB by just one percentage point (24 to 23 percent), but since then interest in baseball has fallen while the NFL has experienced a huge rise in popularity.
> 
> Nine percent fewer fans call baseball their favorite sport over the 30-year span, the biggest drop of any sport. The polling numbers suggest that the sport hasn't been able to recover from a popularity standpoint from 1994, when a strike forced the cancellation of the World Series.  And it has just continued sinking ever since, for the same basic reason > Greed freak baseball.
> 
> Harris Poll -- NFL still most popular; MLB 2nd - ESPN
Click to expand...


Bullshit.   The NFL is run the same way and has the same "greed" you hate so much.  And yet it is more popular than ever.

More likely it is that football has more action to watch.


----------



## protectionist

It's also notable that those with an annual household income of more than $100,000 are more likely to be baseball fans.  Sure, because of the way the game has gone. It's no longer the *national* pasttime because most of the "nation" has been bumped out of it.  It's become *a rich people 's game* with high profits, astronomical salaries, high ticket prices, high parking prices, high this, high that.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10354114/harris-poll-nfl-most-popular-mlb-2nd


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> It's also notable that those with an annual household income of more than $100,000 are more likely to be baseball fans.  Sure, because of the way the game has gone. It's no longer the *national* pasttime because most of the "nation" has been bumped out of it.  It's become *a rich people 's game* with high profits, astronomical salaries, high ticket prices, high parking prices, high this, high that.
> 
> Harris Poll -- NFL still most popular; MLB 2nd - ESPN



And, of course, attending a game is the ONLY way to watch baseball.   And only those who attend games are fans, right?   lol

Baseball is fading.  And having the gov't take over baseball and limiting the players to salaries of between 4100k and $300k would certainly not improve the game.


----------



## WinterBorn

Oh, one more tidbit for you to consider, Protectionless.   If the baseball fans are mainly the people with incomes over $100k, then the rich obviously like the way it is being played.

There goes your plan to socialize sports.  The rich will always have the ear of our gov't more than the crackpots.   So your plan will never come to fruition.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to know what has hurt baseball?   Options and preferences.
> 
> When baseball was at its greatest time, there were few other sports.  Now the NFL is huge and many people only watch baseball until football season starts.
> 
> People prefer football over baseball.  And there are so many other options for our entertainment dollar, fewer and fewer people want to watch baseball.   It is never going to be as popular as it was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO, I don't want to know what has hurt baseball.   Because I ALREADY know.  And it is exactly what I've been talking about in this thread since the OP.  It is the 1994 MLB player's strike, the spoiled brat attitudes of pampered, overpaid players, free agency, things like the Price drop (notice I don't call it a "trade"), overinflated ticket prices, parking prices, concession prices, and the whole anti-fan, greed freak management of it.
> 
> In 2014, 35 percent of fans call the NFL their favorite sport, followed by Major League Baseball (14 percent), college football (11 percent), auto racing (7 percent), the NBA (6 percent), the NHL (5 percent) and college basketball (3 percent).
> 
> In 1985, the first year the poll was taken, the NFL bested MLB by just one percentage point (24 to 23 percent), but since then interest in baseball has fallen while the NFL has experienced a huge rise in popularity.
> 
> Nine percent fewer fans call baseball their favorite sport over the 30-year span, the biggest drop of any sport. The polling numbers suggest that the sport hasn't been able to recover from a popularity standpoint from 1994, when a strike forced the cancellation of the World Series.  And it has just continued sinking ever since, for the same basic reason > Greed freak baseball.
> 
> Harris Poll -- NFL still most popular; MLB 2nd - ESPN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.   The NFL is run the same way and has the same "greed" you hate so much.  And yet it is more popular than ever.
> 
> More likely it is that football has more action to watch.
Click to expand...


More likely it is that football has far fewer games per season.  If you went to half of a team's games that would be 8 games.  That's only 5% of a baseball team's season.  You could go to ALL of an NFL team's games, and it's still only 10% of a MLB team's season.  So somebody might say gee, they went to ALL of the Buccanears games, but they only went to 10% of the Rays games (same # of games).  

Also, "same" greed ?  Don't check facts before you post I see.  Not the same at all.  Top NFL salary is Jay Cutler (Chicago bears QB) at $17 million.  That's hardly more than HALF of the MLB top of Alex Rodriguez (NY Yankees) at $29 Million, and much less than MLB runnerups Zack Greinke and Cliff Lee.  In fact, TWO DOZEN players in ML have higher salaries than the # 1 guy in the NFL.  But don't feel bad Winter, it's the thought that counts. 

2014 NFL Top Base Salaries

List of highest paid Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/mlb/


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> Oh, one more tidbit for you to consider, Protectionless.   If the baseball fans are mainly the people with incomes over $100k, then the rich obviously like the way it is being played.
> 
> There goes your plan to socialize sports.  The rich will always have the ear of our gov't more than the crackpots.   So your plan will never come to fruition.



Are you really missing the point here by that much ?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 HA HA.

I don't give a rat's ass what the rich like.  I'm concerned about the great majority of (middle class and poor) baseball fans.  As for the rich having the ear of the govt, that depends on who's in power.  With Obama right now, Central American migrants have got his ear amazingly well.  Mexican ones too. Not exactly rich are they ?   In general, get a pressure group going.  Get enough petitions signed, and plans come_ "to fruition"_.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, one more tidbit for you to consider, Protectionless.   If the baseball fans are mainly the people with incomes over $100k, then the rich obviously like the way it is being played.
> 
> There goes your plan to socialize sports.  The rich will always have the ear of our gov't more than the crackpots.   So your plan will never come to fruition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you really missing the point here by that much ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HA HA.
> 
> I don't give a rat's ass what the rich like.  I'm concerned about the great majority of (middle class and poor) baseball fans.  As for the rich having the ear of the govt, that depends on who's in power.  With Obama right now, Central American migrants have got his ear amazingly well.  Mexican ones too. Not exactly rich are they ?   In general, get a pressure group going.  Get enough petitions signed, and plans come_ "to fruition"_.
Click to expand...


No, I am not missing the point.   A few disgruntled fans of a team is not going to change MLB.

As for the rich having the ear of the politicians, that is a fact of life in our system, regardless of which president is in office.

It was the same when Bush was in office, when Clinton was in office and when anyone in the last 30+ years has been in office.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> NO, I don't want to know what has hurt baseball.   Because I ALREADY know.  And it is exactly what I've been talking about in this thread since the OP.  It is the 1994 MLB player's strike, the spoiled brat attitudes of pampered, overpaid players, free agency, things like the Price drop (notice I don't call it a "trade"), overinflated ticket prices, parking prices, concession prices, and the whole anti-fan, greed freak management of it.
> 
> In 2014, 35 percent of fans call the NFL their favorite sport, followed by Major League Baseball (14 percent), college football (11 percent), auto racing (7 percent), the NBA (6 percent), the NHL (5 percent) and college basketball (3 percent).
> 
> In 1985, the first year the poll was taken, the NFL bested MLB by just one percentage point (24 to 23 percent), but since then interest in baseball has fallen while the NFL has experienced a huge rise in popularity.
> 
> Nine percent fewer fans call baseball their favorite sport over the 30-year span, the biggest drop of any sport. The polling numbers suggest that the sport hasn't been able to recover from a popularity standpoint from 1994, when a strike forced the cancellation of the World Series.  And it has just continued sinking ever since, for the same basic reason > Greed freak baseball.
> 
> Harris Poll -- NFL still most popular; MLB 2nd - ESPN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.   The NFL is run the same way and has the same "greed" you hate so much.  And yet it is more popular than ever.
> 
> More likely it is that football has more action to watch.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> More likely it is that football has far fewer games per season.  If you went to half of a team's games that would be 8 games.  That's only 5% of a baseball team's season.  You could go to ALL of an NFL team's games, and it's still only 10% of a MLB team's season.  So somebody might say gee, they went to ALL of the Buccanears games, but they only went to 10% of the Rays games (same # of games).
> 
> Also, "same" greed ?  Don't check facts before you post I see.  Not the same at all.  Top NFL salary is Jay Cutler (Chicago bears QB) at $17 million.  That's hardly more than HALF of the MLB top of Alex Rodriguez (NY Yankees) at $29 Million, and much less than MLB runnerups Zack Greinke and Cliff Lee.  In fact, TWO DOZEN players in ML have higher salaries than the # 1 guy in the NFL.  But don't feel bad Winter, it's the thought that counts.
> 
> 2014 NFL Top Base Salaries
> 
> List of highest paid Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 2014 MLB Top Total Salaries
Click to expand...


It is the same greed.  I didn't say they paid them the same or as much.  But your moaning and bitching all along has been about free agency, the owners doing things to make profits, ect ect.   The NFL fits that same description.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bullshit.   The NFL is run the same way and has the same "greed" you hate so much.  And yet it is more popular than ever.
> 
> More likely it is that football has more action to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More likely it is that football has far fewer games per season.  If you went to half of a team's games that would be 8 games.  That's only 5% of a baseball team's season.  You could go to ALL of an NFL team's games, and it's still only 10% of a MLB team's season.  So somebody might say gee, they went to ALL of the Buccanears games, but they only went to 10% of the Rays games (same # of games).
> 
> Also, "same" greed ?  Don't check facts before you post I see.  Not the same at all.  Top NFL salary is Jay Cutler (Chicago bears QB) at $17 million.  That's hardly more than HALF of the MLB top of Alex Rodriguez (NY Yankees) at $29 Million, and much less than MLB runnerups Zack Greinke and Cliff Lee.  In fact, TWO DOZEN players in ML have higher salaries than the # 1 guy in the NFL.  But don't feel bad Winter, it's the thought that counts.
> 
> 2014 NFL Top Base Salaries
> 
> List of highest paid Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 2014 MLB Top Total Salaries
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It is the same greed.  I didn't say they paid them the same or as much.  But your moaning and bitching all along has been about free agency, the owners doing things to make profits, ect ect.   The NFL fits that same description.
Click to expand...


Not quantitatively they don't, but I'm not crazy about the way the NFL is carrying on either.  Or the NBA.  Only reason I'm so up in arms at MLB, that was brought on by the Price fiasco.  Feel better now ?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> More likely it is that football has far fewer games per season.  If you went to half of a team's games that would be 8 games.  That's only 5% of a baseball team's season.  You could go to ALL of an NFL team's games, and it's still only 10% of a MLB team's season.  So somebody might say gee, they went to ALL of the Buccanears games, but they only went to 10% of the Rays games (same # of games).
> 
> Also, "same" greed ?  Don't check facts before you post I see.  Not the same at all.  Top NFL salary is Jay Cutler (Chicago bears QB) at $17 million.  That's hardly more than HALF of the MLB top of Alex Rodriguez (NY Yankees) at $29 Million, and much less than MLB runnerups Zack Greinke and Cliff Lee.  In fact, TWO DOZEN players in ML have higher salaries than the # 1 guy in the NFL.  But don't feel bad Winter, it's the thought that counts.
> 
> 2014 NFL Top Base Salaries
> 
> List of highest paid Major League Baseball players - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 2014 MLB Top Total Salaries
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the same greed.  I didn't say they paid them the same or as much.  But your moaning and bitching all along has been about free agency, the owners doing things to make profits, ect ect.   The NFL fits that same description.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not quantitatively they don't, but I'm not crazy about the way the NFL is carrying on either.  Or the NBA.  Only reason I'm so up in arms at MLB, that was brought on by the Price fiasco.  Feel better now ?
Click to expand...


It's funny, when I quote dollar amounts you scream about it being the greedy, money-changer mentality ect ect, and that it doesn't matter.  But when it suits you, the dollar amounts matter.

Yes, I have known all along that you are pissed because they traded your hero.   I don't care of you have some sort of fantasy bromance with Price, your ideas for a gov't takeover of MLB and putting the salary cap at $300k is ridiculous.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is the same greed.  I didn't say they paid them the same or as much.  But your moaning and bitching all along has been about free agency, the owners doing things to make profits, ect ect.   The NFL fits that same description.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not quantitatively they don't, but I'm not crazy about the way the NFL is carrying on either.  Or the NBA.  Only reason I'm so up in arms at MLB, that was brought on by the Price fiasco.  Feel better now ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's funny, when I quote dollar amounts you scream about it being the greedy, money-changer mentality ect ect, and that it doesn't matter.  But when it suits you, the dollar amounts matter.
> 
> Yes, I have known all along that you are pissed because they traded your hero.   I don't care of you have some sort of fantasy bromance with Price, your ideas for a gov't takeover of MLB and putting the salary cap at $300k is ridiculous.
Click to expand...


You've said that now, what ?  10 times ?  15 ?  Just the first time you said it, got us to know your opinion on it.  Never was even a need for the second one, much less the 10th. Oh, I forgot.  You're a harasser/troll.  That's right.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not quantitatively they don't, but I'm not crazy about the way the NFL is carrying on either.  Or the NBA.  Only reason I'm so up in arms at MLB, that was brought on by the Price fiasco.  Feel better now ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny, when I quote dollar amounts you scream about it being the greedy, money-changer mentality ect ect, and that it doesn't matter.  But when it suits you, the dollar amounts matter.
> 
> Yes, I have known all along that you are pissed because they traded your hero.   I don't care of you have some sort of fantasy bromance with Price, your ideas for a gov't takeover of MLB and putting the salary cap at $300k is ridiculous.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You've said that now, what ?  10 times ?  15 ?  Just the first time you said it, got us to know your opinion on it.  Never was even a need for the second one, much less the 10th. Oh, I forgot.  You're a harasser/troll.  That's right.
Click to expand...


Do you really want to start looking at how many times you said the same thing?

Yes, I said it before.  You ranted and raved that it was some sort of money-changers conspiracy and didn't matter.  Suddenly you act as though you accept it and I shouldn't repeat it??   

You can flipflop with the best of them.  But will you ask the mods to close this thread like you did the last time you flipflopped?


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's funny, when I quote dollar amounts you scream about it being the greedy, money-changer mentality ect ect, and that it doesn't matter.  But when it suits you, the dollar amounts matter.
> 
> Yes, I have known all along that you are pissed because they traded your hero.   I don't care of you have some sort of fantasy bromance with Price, your ideas for a gov't takeover of MLB and putting the salary cap at $300k is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've said that now, what ?  10 times ?  15 ?  Just the first time you said it, got us to know your opinion on it.  Never was even a need for the second one, much less the 10th. Oh, I forgot.  You're a harasser/troll.  That's right.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Do you really want to start looking at how many times you said the same thing?
> 
> Yes, I said it before.  You ranted and raved that it was some sort of money-changers conspiracy and didn't matter.  Suddenly you act as though you accept it and I shouldn't repeat it??
> 
> You can flipflop with the best of them.  But will you ask the mods to close this thread like you did the last time you flipflopped?
Click to expand...


Try again.  I don't understand unintelligble babbling. Your post doesn't make sense.  I have no idea what you just said.  What flip flop ?  When ?


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> You've said that now, what ?  10 times ?  15 ?  Just the first time you said it, got us to know your opinion on it.  Never was even a need for the second one, much less the 10th. Oh, I forgot.  You're a harasser/troll.  That's right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really want to start looking at how many times you said the same thing?
> 
> Yes, I said it before.  You ranted and raved that it was some sort of money-changers conspiracy and didn't matter.  Suddenly you act as though you accept it and I shouldn't repeat it??
> 
> You can flipflop with the best of them.  But will you ask the mods to close this thread like you did the last time you flipflopped?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Try again.  I don't understand unintelligble babbling. Your post doesn't make sense.  I have no idea what you just said.  What flip flop ?  When ?
Click to expand...


When have you flipflopped and asked a mod to close the thread?    When have you changed your tune from condemnation to sympathy and the had the thread closed?


----------



## Synthaholic

protectionist said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huge salaries, which make ticket prices rise, are the problem with MLB.
> 
> When half the seats behind home plate at Yankee Stadium are empty when the Red Sox are there, there is something wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.  And this is a big part of the money-hustle culture that has taken over the game. And besides the ticket prices, are also much too-high prices for food, parking, souveniers, etc.  *The whole thing has turned into a rich people's thing*.
Click to expand...


And a corporate thing, buying up blocks of seats and sky-boxes, which go unused half the time.  Which sucks for the vendors, who work on commission, basically.

I lived in Atlanta in the early 80s and used to go to Braves games all the time, because it was only a couple of bucks to get in, for the cheap seats.  Which allows you some money for concessions, parking, souvenirs, etc.  Now a family of four is spending $100 just on parking and concessions.  Souvenirs are outrageous, and home plate section tickets at Yankee Stadium are between $680-$1600.

With so many choices for your entertainment dollar, MLB is not a lot of bang for the buck.


----------



## Synthaholic

Oh, and it was Zombie Night at Turner Field!


Turner Field overrun by walkers on Braves' Zombie Night | MLB.com


----------



## Synthaholic

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HUGGY said:
> 
> 
> 
> In three weeks no one will care.
> 
> The NFL regular season will be under way.
> 
> You should consider putting this thread in the comedy forum.
> 
> This is some funny shit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah ? What's so funny about it ?  I don't think it's funny. I'm pissed off about it.  I just wish there was somebody's fucking ass I could kick about it, and I'd kick it but good!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You want to know what has hurt baseball?   Options and preferences.
> 
> When baseball was at its greatest time, there were few other sports.  Now the NFL is huge and many people only watch baseball until football season starts.
> 
> People prefer football over baseball.  And there are so many other options for our entertainment dollar, fewer and fewer people want to watch baseball.   It is never going to be as popular as it was.
> 
> Now go kick your own ass for being a whiner.
Click to expand...


I see you beat me to it as to choices.  But while it is never going to be as popular as it was, it could be a helluva lot more popular than it is currently.  And one of the ways is to make it affordable again for families.  Because kids love to go to the stadium!

I feel the same way about golf, only more strongly.  The current woes in the golf world can be cured by volume.  In my area, the cheapest 18 hole course is $33.  Most of them are $45-$70.  In order to enjoy golf you have to play golf regularly.  I do not want to spend over $200 a month to play once a week.  If it was $12, I would play at least once a week.  And so would a hell of a lot of other people who have abandoned it as a regular hobby.  And it would be affordable to, say, teach your son or daughter.


----------



## Synthaholic

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to know what has hurt baseball?   Options and preferences.
> 
> When baseball was at its greatest time, there were few other sports.  Now the NFL is huge and many people only watch baseball until football season starts.
> 
> People prefer football over baseball.  And there are so many other options for our entertainment dollar, fewer and fewer people want to watch baseball.   It is never going to be as popular as it was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NO, I don't want to know what has hurt baseball.   Because I ALREADY know.  And it is exactly what I've been talking about in this thread since the OP.  It is the 1994 MLB player's strike, the spoiled brat attitudes of pampered, overpaid players, free agency, things like the Price drop (notice I don't call it a "trade"), overinflated ticket prices, parking prices, concession prices, and the whole anti-fan, greed freak management of it.
> 
> In 2014, 35 percent of fans call the NFL their favorite sport, followed by Major League Baseball (14 percent), college football (11 percent), auto racing (7 percent), the NBA (6 percent), the NHL (5 percent) and college basketball (3 percent).
> 
> In 1985, the first year the poll was taken, the NFL bested MLB by just one percentage point (24 to 23 percent), but since then interest in baseball has fallen while the NFL has experienced a huge rise in popularity.
> 
> Nine percent fewer fans call baseball their favorite sport over the 30-year span, the biggest drop of any sport. The polling numbers suggest that the sport hasn't been able to recover from a popularity standpoint from 1994, when a strike forced the cancellation of the World Series.  And it has just continued sinking ever since, for the same basic reason > Greed freak baseball.
> 
> Harris Poll -- NFL still most popular; MLB 2nd - ESPN
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Bullshit.   The NFL is run the same way and has the same "greed" you hate so much.  And yet it is more popular than ever.
> 
> More likely it is that football has more action to watch.
Click to expand...


But football players don't get the $20 million per year contracts that Jeter, Puhols, ARod, etc. get, do they?  Yet their sport is much more profitable, I am assuming, than MLB.

As to the action, someone did a study, and if you count all the time in between plays, it's about even with baseball.


----------



## HUGGY

Synthaholic said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah ? What's so funny about it ?  I don't think it's funny. I'm pissed off about it.  I just wish there was somebody's fucking ass I could kick about it, and I'd kick it but good!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You want to know what has hurt baseball?   Options and preferences.
> 
> When baseball was at its greatest time, there were few other sports.  Now the NFL is huge and many people only watch baseball until football season starts.
> 
> People prefer football over baseball.  And there are so many other options for our entertainment dollar, fewer and fewer people want to watch baseball.   It is never going to be as popular as it was.
> 
> Now go kick your own ass for being a whiner.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I see you beat me to it as to choices.  But while it is never going to be as popular as it was, it could be a helluva lot more popular than it is currently.  And one of the ways is to make it affordable again for families.  Because kids love to go to the stadium!
> 
> I feel the same way about golf, only more strongly.  The current woes in the golf world can be cured by volume.  In my area, the cheapest 18 hole course is $33.  Most of them are $45-$70.  In order to enjoy golf you have to play golf regularly.  I do noice t want to spend over $200 a month to play once a week.  If it was $12, I would play at least once a week.  And so would a hell of a lot of other people who have abandoned it as a regular hobby.  And it would be affordable to, say, teach your son or daughter.
Click to expand...


Golf courses are not for teaching.  That is what driving ranges are for.  A big bucket of balls is cheap.  Many have realistic chipping and putting surfaces to practice on as well.  Here in Seattle most ranges also have a couple of actual sand traps to practice in also with a putting green nearby to practice sand shots to a flag.

Golf courses are meant for actual competition and fast play.  Sometimes in mid week you can get a tee off time early in the morning and have some leeway to practice or teach.  If they see you hitting extra balls though they may send out a course employee to tell you to knock it off.


----------



## Synthaholic

HUGGY said:


> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> You want to know what has hurt baseball?   Options and preferences.
> 
> When baseball was at its greatest time, there were few other sports.  Now the NFL is huge and many people only watch baseball until football season starts.
> 
> People prefer football over baseball.  And there are so many other options for our entertainment dollar, fewer and fewer people want to watch baseball.   It is never going to be as popular as it was.
> 
> Now go kick your own ass for being a whiner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see you beat me to it as to choices.  But while it is never going to be as popular as it was, it could be a helluva lot more popular than it is currently.  And one of the ways is to make it affordable again for families.  Because kids love to go to the stadium!
> 
> I feel the same way about golf, only more strongly.  The current woes in the golf world can be cured by volume.  In my area, the cheapest 18 hole course is $33.  Most of them are $45-$70.  In order to enjoy golf you have to play golf regularly.  I do noice t want to spend over $200 a month to play once a week.  If it was $12, I would play at least once a week.  And so would a hell of a lot of other people who have abandoned it as a regular hobby.  And it would be affordable to, say, teach your son or daughter.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Golf courses are not for teaching.  That is what driving ranges are for.  A big bucket of balls is cheap.  Many have realistic chipping and putting surfaces to practice on as well.  Here in Seattle most ranges also have a couple of actual sand traps to practice in also with a putting green nearby to practice sand shots to a flag.
> 
> Golf courses are meant for actual competition and fast play.  Sometimes in mid week you can get a tee off time early in the morning and have some leeway to practice or teach.  If they see you hitting extra balls though they may send out a course employee to tell you to knock it off.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you're talking about, HUGGY.  I didn't suggest practicing shots on the course.  I said that the only way to get better is to play regularly.  You can't get that from the driving range or the practice greens.  Those are just for warming up.

And I definitely try different things when I'm playing, like a bounce wedge shot rather than a straight pitching wedge.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really want to start looking at how many times you said the same thing?
> 
> Yes, I said it before.  You ranted and raved that it was some sort of money-changers conspiracy and didn't matter.  Suddenly you act as though you accept it and I shouldn't repeat it??
> 
> You can flipflop with the best of them.  But will you ask the mods to close this thread like you did the last time you flipflopped?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try again.  I don't understand unintelligble babbling. Your post doesn't make sense.  I have no idea what you just said.  What flip flop ?  When ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> When have you flipflopped and asked a mod to close the thread?    When have you changed your tune from condemnation to sympathy and the had the thread closed?
Click to expand...


That's what I'm asking YOU WinterBorn.  And when I asked you, instead of answering, you ask me the question which I asked you.  HA HA. You may now proceed with the answer (if you have one)


----------



## protectionist

Synthaholic said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Synthaholic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Huge salaries, which make ticket prices rise, are the problem with MLB.
> 
> When half the seats behind home plate at Yankee Stadium are empty when the Red Sox are there, there is something wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.  And this is a big part of the money-hustle culture that has taken over the game. And besides the ticket prices, are also much too-high prices for food, parking, souveniers, etc.  *The whole thing has turned into a rich people's thing*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> And a corporate thing, buying up blocks of seats and sky-boxes, which go unused half the time.  Which sucks for the vendors, who work on commission, basically.
> 
> I lived in Atlanta in the early 80s and used to go to Braves games all the time, because it was only a couple of bucks to get in, for the cheap seats.  Which allows you some money for concessions, parking, souvenirs, etc.  Now a family of four is spending $100 just on parking and concessions.  Souvenirs are outrageous, and home plate section tickets at Yankee Stadium are between $680-$1600.
> 
> With so many choices for your entertainment dollar, MLB is not a lot of bang for the buck.
Click to expand...


Everyone I know who is still a MLB fan, watches the games on TV, NEVER goes to the ballpark, and buys their souveneirs in WalMart.  Been that way for 20 years now.  In some cities, maybe longer.

And the vendors.  Another victim.  Good point.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try again.  I don't understand unintelligble babbling. Your post doesn't make sense.  I have no idea what you just said.  What flip flop ?  When ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When have you flipflopped and asked a mod to close the thread?    When have you changed your tune from condemnation to sympathy and the had the thread closed?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what I'm asking YOU WinterBorn.  And when I asked you, instead of answering, you ask me the question which I asked you.  HA HA. You may now proceed with the answer (if you have one)
Click to expand...


I did answer.  I reminded you of your recent flipflop in a thread, and then you asked the mods to close it.   Surely your dementia hasn't gotten so bad you forgot that quickly.

And, as you have shown in this thread, just because a question is asked does not mean an answer is coming.  I recall asking a question numerous times, but you refused to answer.


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When have you flipflopped and asked a mod to close the thread?    When have you changed your tune from condemnation to sympathy and the had the thread closed?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I'm asking YOU WinterBorn.  And when I asked you, instead of answering, you ask me the question which I asked you.  HA HA. You may now proceed with the answer (if you have one)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did answer.  I reminded you of your recent flipflop in a thread, and then you asked the mods to close it.   Surely your dementia hasn't gotten so bad you forgot that quickly.
> 
> And, as you have shown in this thread, just because a question is asked does not mean an answer is coming.  I recall asking a question numerous times, but you refused to answer.
Click to expand...


This is the third time I'm asking you, WB.  If you swing and miss again, you've struck out.  So once again, what is this so-called flipflop you allude to ?  And while we're at it, what is this question you asked that I didn't answer ?  LOL.


----------



## WinterBorn

protectionist said:


> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I'm asking YOU WinterBorn.  And when I asked you, instead of answering, you ask me the question which I asked you.  HA HA. You may now proceed with the answer (if you have one)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did answer.  I reminded you of your recent flipflop in a thread, and then you asked the mods to close it.   Surely your dementia hasn't gotten so bad you forgot that quickly.
> 
> And, as you have shown in this thread, just because a question is asked does not mean an answer is coming.  I recall asking a question numerous times, but you refused to answer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is the third time I'm asking you, WB.  If you swing and miss again, you've struck out.  So once again, what is this so-called flipflop you allude to ?  And while we're at it, what is this question you asked that I didn't answer ?  LOL.
Click to expand...


To be fair, you insisted there was an answer in the OP.  There was not.  And still you refused to give me a straight answer.

As for the flipflop, since admitting that is difficult for you, how many threads have you asked the mods to close recently?


----------



## protectionist

WinterBorn said:


> protectionist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WinterBorn said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did answer.  I reminded you of your recent flipflop in a thread, and then you asked the mods to close it.   Surely your dementia hasn't gotten so bad you forgot that quickly.
> 
> And, as you have shown in this thread, just because a question is asked does not mean an answer is coming.  I recall asking a question numerous times, but you refused to answer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the third time I'm asking you, WB.  If you swing and miss again, you've struck out.  So once again, what is this so-called flipflop you allude to ?  And while we're at it, what is this question you asked that I didn't answer ?  LOL.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> To be fair, you insisted there was an answer in the OP.  There was not.  And still you refused to give me a straight answer.
> 
> As for the flipflop, since admitting that is difficult for you, how many threads have you asked the mods to close recently?
Click to expand...


To be fair, do you know how to speak English to make yourself understood ?...or is this some kind of doubletalk in which not being understood is the goal ?  Again, I have no idea what the hell you're saying.  Answer in the OP ? Answer to what ?  I insisted what ? 

As for the flipflop, looks like you struck out on that one.  I gave you 3 chances to explain that.  You didn't.

So, now I must say, I haven't been ignoring you WB (although I certainly should be ). I've just been very preoccupied, in all the posting on the Michael Brown shooting, and responding to all the idiots who claim that he was murdered, while having not a shred of evidence to support that.


----------



## protectionist

Too busy for this thread now.  Time out to other threads.


----------



## flacaltenn

*Moderation Message:*

*Closed by request of OP.. *

*FlaCalTenn*


----------

