# Science can not even get when life started right



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2020)

Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
					

Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.




					getpocket.com
				




They have been claiming for hundred years or more life needed oxygen to evolve into complex forms. Turns out they were mostly wrong, Very little oxygen was present when the first complex life forms evolved. If they got that wrong what else have they gotten wrong?


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## alang1216 (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
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> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
> ...


You seem to be the one who got it wrong:
Haldane introduced the modern concept of abiogenesis in an eight-page article titled _The origin of life,_ in the _Rationalist Annual_ in *1929*,[51] describing the primitive ocean as a "vast chemical laboratory" containing a mixture of inorganic compounds – like a "hot dilute soup" in which organic compounds could have formed. Under the solar energy the *anoxic *atmosphere containing carbon dioxide, ammonia and water vapour gave rise to a variety of organic compounds, "living or half-living things"​


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## rightwinger (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
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> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
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Learn something new every day

That is what makes science so great
Knowledge “evolves”


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## the other mike (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
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> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
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Humans are rookies in the grand time scale. It's natural to 
learn from mistakes. The biggest problems we have are from making the same ones over and over and over.


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## Vandalshandle (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
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> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
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I am sure that you will tell us.


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## harmonica (Aug 6, 2020)

..well --obviously and undeniably, ''god'' did not ''energize'' a fully formed human into creation.....


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## progressive hunter (Aug 6, 2020)

harmonica said:


> ..well --obviously and undeniably, ''god'' did not ''energize'' a fully formed human into creation.....


how can you know for sure???

the option is a fully grown adult male and female just appeared knowing how to take care of themselves and reproduce,,,


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## esalla (Aug 6, 2020)

alang1216 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
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Too bad that life is not made of randomly forming organic compounds.  Life is made by organic compounds that are created and organized to do specific jobs by DNA


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## the other mike (Aug 6, 2020)

progressive hunter said:


> harmonica said:
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> > ..well --obviously and undeniably, ''god'' did not ''energize'' a fully formed human into creation.....
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He's been to Remulak.


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## Slade3200 (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
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> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
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Did you just say that science said life needed oxygen to evolve and that very little oxygen was present when the first life forms evolved? So Oxygen was present??? What’s your point again?!


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2020)

esalla said:


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Which according to science required Oxygen in large enough quantity to do it. They now know that is not true.


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## alang1216 (Aug 6, 2020)

esalla said:


> Too bad that life is not made of randomly forming organic compounds.  Life is made by organic compounds that are created and organized to do specific jobs by DNA


Good thing that crystals, e.g., diamonds, are created by natural processes.  Mix chemistry, physics, and time and you can get some amazing things.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2020)

Slade3200 said:


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READ the damn article numbnuts.


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## alang1216 (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


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You mean according *you *science required Oxygen.  In reality science has known for a long time that oxygen was a late addition to the mix.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2020)

alang1216 said:


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Obviously you did NOT read the damn article.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 6, 2020)

alang1216 said:


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For those incapable of opening and reading a link...



> These days, scientists generally agree with the idea that the original recipe for life was pretty simple, but they’re not sure what ingredients were necessary for those early life forms to make the leap into _complex_ forms of life, like animals. Many scientists theorize that, since all complex life — involving cells that have multiple components — now relies on oxygen to breathe, it must have happened at a time when there was plenty of oxygen in the air. But the scientists behind a 2018 study published in _Nature_ report that oxygen in the atmosphere didn’t rise to significant levels until _after_ complex life arose — suggesting that oxygen wasn’t all that important after all.


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## alang1216 (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


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I did read it and she knows as little as you do.


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## dblack (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> If they got that wrong what else have they gotten wrong?



Everything. You can't trust science. Covid is fake. Germs are fake. Go lick a toilet seat at a gas station. You'll be fine.


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## Chuz Life (Aug 6, 2020)

How can scientists ever agree on when an unseeable, UN-reproducible act like the events that lead to the first organisms and LIFE in the general sense. . .  When they can even provide a clear message to the world on when and how a human child's life begins? 

Easily observed, re-producible, easily verified as that is. 

The fucktardz won't do it. 

WHY do you suppose that is?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
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> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
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Probably lots of stuff. But this is a tweak to a slider on a football stadium sized machine that is biology. . Not in any danger are ideas like abiogenesis, or evolution.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 6, 2020)

Chuz Life said:


> How can scientists ever agree on when an unseeable, UN-reproducible act like the events that lead to the first organisms and LIFE in the general sense. . .  When they can even provide a clear message to the world on when and how a human child's life begins?
> 
> Easily observed, re-producible, easily verified as that is.
> 
> ...


Wrong thread, Cletus.


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## abu afak (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
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> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
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Which just shows live evolved/evolves to fit the planet's conditions.
So god did not create the conditions/us originally.
`
`


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## Slade3200 (Aug 6, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


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The Bible is all I need


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## esalla (Aug 7, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Actually there are no links with life genesis formation.  In fact links are often less than nothing


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## alang1216 (Aug 7, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


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You mean because it's on the internet I need to believe it?  Sorry, if this ("Many scientists theorize that, since all complex life — involving cells that have multiple components — now relies on oxygen to breathe, it must have happened at a time when there was plenty of oxygen in the air.") was ever true it hasn't been for almost 100 years.  I believe it is called a Straw Man.


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## james bond (Aug 8, 2020)

alang1216 said:


> You seem to be the one who got it wrong:
> Haldane introduced the modern concept of abiogenesis in an eight-page article titled _The origin of life,_ in the _Rationalist Annual_ in *1929*,[51] describing the primitive ocean as a "vast chemical laboratory" containing a mixture of inorganic compounds – like a "hot dilute soup" in which organic compounds could have formed. Under the solar energy the *anoxic *atmosphere containing carbon dioxide, ammonia and water vapour gave rise to a variety of organic compounds, "living or half-living things"



He didn't get it wrong, but Darwin and those scientists who came after Darwin did assuming an oxygen rich atmosphere.  This was from a 2018 Nature article.  Did you even read the Pocket article as you snidely bring up stuff from 1929?  Is that what you believe as best theory?

The article said oxygen wasn't important at all and you believe in water vapour which is oxygen.


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## alang1216 (Aug 8, 2020)

james bond said:


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Got something from a science journal where a scientist assumed the early Earth had an oxygen rich atmosphere?  I don't know what you think I believe about water vapor.


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## Hollie (Aug 8, 2020)

james bond said:


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None of the above matters when you live in a fantasy world of gods, demons, talking snakes and other absurdities.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

Slade3200 said:


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Until you get sick. Or until you want to do just about anything that involves more than sitting and reading the Bible.


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## Moonglow (Aug 8, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
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> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
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 *Henneguya* salminicolathat a creature that lives in zero oxygen locations on the planet.








						Scientists have found the first animal in the world that doesn’t need oxygen to live
					

'Our discovery shows that evolution can go in strange directions,' said lead researcher Dorothee Huchon




					nationalpost.com


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## Slade3200 (Aug 8, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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There is nothing more needed out of life than sitting and reading the Bible


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 8, 2020)

Slade3200 said:


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Maybe for you. I can think of much better ways to waste my time.


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## ReinyDays (Aug 15, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> READ the damn article numbnuts.



I didn't get far until I found what appears to be some fairly serious mistakes ... early life used the fermentation pathway for energy ... not respiration ... photosynthesis had evolved, but all the oxygen generated early on was quickly used to oxidize the free iron in the water forming the great rust belts found throughout the world ... and once all the free iron was oxidized, the oxygen was free to collect and kill damn near everything ... so, starting 2 billion years ago, it was just cyanobacteria in the whole wide world ... everything evolved from these few species that survive the Oxygen Catastrophe ... 

Photosynthesis continued and slowly the oxygen concentration built up ... and as soon as able, multicellular organisms evolved taking advantage of whatever amount of oxygen was available ... this is all still in the oceans, land is still barren without any life at all ...

The article claims these oxygen level were still to low for multicellular organisms to form ... but without any explanation of any kind why that would be so ... "It might not have happened, therefore it _didn't happen_" ... classic pseudo-science ... 

As far as I know ... the very oldest rocks we have in hand that could contain fossils ... in fact ... do contain fossils ... thus we don't know when life originated on Earth ... all the evidence seems to have been crumpled and subducted back into mantle and melted ...


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## ding (Aug 17, 2020)

__





						Timeline of the evolutionary history of life - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## ChemEngineer (Aug 17, 2020)

james bond said:


> The article said oxygen wasn't important at all and you believe in water vapour which is oxygen.



Well, no.  You can breathe pure oxygen but you cannot breathe pure water vapor (H2O).


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## ReinyDays (Aug 17, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> Well, no.  You can breathe pure oxygen but you cannot breathe pure water vapor (H2O).



Pure water vapor at 100ºC ...


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## ding (Aug 17, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> ChemEngineer said:
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Aren't we breathing some water vapor now?


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## ChemEngineer (Aug 17, 2020)

ding said:


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"you believe in water vapour which is oxygen. "

H2O is NOT O2, is it?


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## ding (Aug 17, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


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That's true.  I'm breathing in both.


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## ChemEngineer (Aug 17, 2020)

ding said:


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The science lesson for today is concluded.  We're all breathing in oxygen and water vapor.
Has anyone learned anything?  Almost certainly not.  But I'll add some of my musings and you will learn.
What is the danger of suffocation from oxygen deprivation in a closed room?
First, how much air do we inhale and exhale per minute? Answer:  About 1 cubic foot.
Next, how much oxygen do we remove  from that volume? Answer:   About 1% of the 9%, leaving 8%.

So a room 12 x 10 and 8 feet high will permit one occupant 120 x 8 x 9 minutes of oxygen or 8640 minutes which equals 144 hours before exhausting all the oxygen.  Sleep well. Before ever approaching this limit, the carbon dioxide concentration would undoubtedly cause adults to hyperventilate and wake up, opening windows or/and doors.

One evening, I was sleeping in my Volkswagen camper in the snowy mountains and I had the bright idea to heat it with a catalytic heater inside the camper with my wife and me.  Window slightly cracked.  I woke up around 1 am with a splitting headache from either carbon dioxide or oxygen shortage and turned off the heater before we all died.  Don't you do this.  Charcoal briquettes are far worse. They produce carbon monoxide, very deadly.

In his book, Counting the Eons, Isaac Asimov, an ignorant atheist (but I repeat myself) said "If you breathe underwater through  rubber hose that is long enough, all the air will not be exhausted and you will suffocate."  How stupid of Isaac, for two reasons.

1.  Straightening a snorkel puts your chest down deep enough that the water pressure prevents you from taking a single breath.
2.  BUT EVEN IF YOU COULD inspire at 50 feet deep, say, you could exhale through your nose, and inhale through your mouth.  I've done it by cracking the valve on a scuba tank, testing survival technique in case of total regulator failure.

"If you throw an object up in the air, it goes on forever." - Isaac Asimov, Ibid

I wrote to his publisher pointing out his silly mistakes.  What a doof.  He was afraid to fly in commercial jets, and abandoned God when his prayer to pass a chemistry exam was not "answered."


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## Hollie (Aug 17, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> ding said:
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It sure seems that there is a direct correlation between degrees of religious extremism and outward expressions and hate and self-hate.


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## ding (Aug 17, 2020)

Hollie said:


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Hitler saw the Jews the same way.


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## ReinyDays (Aug 17, 2020)

105% of all scientists world wide agree that dry air is 78% N2, 21% O2, 1% Ar ... 5% CO2 ... the rest are trivial by mass ... 

Water vapor runs between next to nothing to 5% in extreme cases ...


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## ReinyDays (Aug 17, 2020)

Hollie said:


> It sure seems that there is a direct correlation between degrees of religious extremism and outward expressions and hate and self-hate.



Hindus practice self-mutilation ... some do ... is that self-hate? ...


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## ChemEngineer (Aug 17, 2020)

Many atheists and Leftists are on my Ignore List, including of course Hollie.  Unfortunately while perusing ding's response to her, this came through:

" It sure seems that there is a direct correlation between degrees of religious extremism and outward expressions and hate and self-hate. "

"Religious extremism"  to an atheist like Holly means a Christian, a believer.  No atheist is ever hated, or thrown out of a Christian church. Quite the opposite.  Christians are overwhelmingly friendly and loving.  "One nation under God" is the creed of our country and our Founding Fathers, who were NOT atheists, like Hollie.

Let me tell you who is hateful.  Godless Leftists such as Stalin and Chairman Mao and Adolf Hitler.   Combined, they murdered, tortured and starved well over 100,000,000 humans.  Hollie should be so proud of her fellow atheists.

Now please this:  http://AreAtheistsRight.blogspot.com


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> Let me tell you who is hateful. Godless Leftists such as Stalin and Chairman Mao and Adolf Hitler


Hitler was christian. Mao and stalin were gods. Those were very religious societies and actually prove the point opposite to your desperate, stupid point.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 17, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> ChemEngineer said:
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LOL so now mere men are Gods but you don't believe in the True God. As for Hitler he was no Christian. Just look at his actions, his words, his deeds. Just because someone says they are something doesn't make it true, take men that claim they are women, or women that claim they are men for example. The actions of Hitler were in direct opposition to the teachings and beliefs of just about every Christian group there is, Ohh I am sure you can find some tiny offshoot somewhere that claims they are christian and belief Hitler's actions were christian, but that's like the white woman that claimed she was black, it simply is NOT TRUE.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> LOL so now mere men are Gods


According to them and their subjects, Yes. You REALLY couldn't puzzle that out? North korea...most religious country in the world. You know what god they worship, right?

Hitler absolutely was christian and drew much of his inspiration for slaughtering jews from christianity. You can sit there and have your little hissy, but you dont get to rewrite history.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 17, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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LOL the only one rewriting anything is you. Again a Christian is know by their deeds and actions.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Again a Christian is know by their deeds and actions.


Like, slaughtering witches, beheading heretics, etc. Yes i know. 

What an adorable little game you have rigged for yourself: all the christians who did bad things just weren't christians. Why? Because you say so. 

Scientists don't have the luxury of being such weasels.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 17, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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No they just make shit up and then use assumptions and guesses to make pronouncements.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> No they just make shit up and then use assumptions and guesses to make pronouncements.


* as typed on his quantum mechanical device that uses electromagnetic theory to beam his words to satellites that rely on general relativity to relate this stupidity to everyone's eyes, using the photoelectric effect

You sound like a moron .  I mean..could you be any less self aware? Religion has zombified your brain.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 17, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Wrong science is real you just think EVERYTHING a scientist says is the god awful truth, a lot is assumption and guesses. You worship science.


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## Hollie (Aug 17, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> Many atheists and Leftists are on my Ignore List, including of course Hollie.  Unfortunately while perusing ding's response to her, this came through:
> 
> " It sure seems that there is a direct correlation between degrees of religious extremism and outward expressions and hate and self-hate. "
> 
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Congrats as you have used the stereotypical cliches of “Stalin and Mao”. Not so clever to bring the Hitler reference as he was raised a Catholic. Christianity and the occult were elements of Hitler’s Nazi ideology.

You must be so proud of the death and misery your religion has caused.

Please see: https://catholicherald.co.uk/christ...rrible-crimes-over-the-centuries-why-is-that/


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## Hollie (Aug 17, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Hollie said:
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They might want to step it up if they want to compete with Shia Islam and the Ashura “festival”.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Wrong science is real you just think EVERYTHING a scientist says is the god awful truth


No i dont. You are the gullible fool who thinks things are true because someone says it is.

"All hail the zombie king!"

Haha, listen to yourself. You think everyone , including the global scientific community, who believes evolution is a fact does so because "someone said so. " Wow crybaby... You are REALLY embarrassing yourself, now.

"Science is real"...

... Except for when it doesn't agree with your iron aged mythology, of course.


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## fncceo (Aug 17, 2020)

*"Science works on the frontier between knowledge and ignorance. We're not afraid to admit what we don't know. There's no shame in that. **The only shame is to pretend that we have all the answers."*

-- Neil deGrasse Tyson


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## ChemEngineer (Aug 17, 2020)

“National Socialism derives from each of the two camps the pure idea that characterizes it, national resolution from bourgeois tradition; vital, creative socialism from the teaching of Marxism.”

Interview by Hanns Johst in _Frankforter Volksblatt_, Jan. 27, 1934, David Schoenbaum, _Hitler’s Social Revolution: Class and Status in Nazi Germany, 1933–1939_, New York: NY, W. W. Norton & Company, 1997, p. 57

But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. – Adolf Hitler


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> “National Socialism derives from each of the two camps the pure idea that characterizes it, national resolution from bourgeois tradition; vital, creative socialism from the teaching of Marxism.”
> 
> Interview by Hanns Johst in _Frankforter Volksblatt_, Jan. 27, 1934, David Schoenbaum, _Hitler’s Social Revolution: Class and Status in Nazi Germany, 1933–1939_, New York: NY, W. W. Norton & Company, 1997, p. 57
> 
> But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. – Adolf Hitler


Except it wasn't really "national socialism". It was right wing fascism, sold under those auspices. That's why you and Hitler say so many similar tings.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 17, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> ChemEngineer said:
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You keep claiming just because a scientist said something it is true, they don't even say that.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> You keep claiming just because a scientist said something it is true


You shameless, lying little weasel. I have not done that. Lies make baby jesus cry.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 17, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Yes you have you said I was wrong by questioning ANY scientist repeatedly in numerous threads and YES you have said with definitive statements that to question any scientist is wrong and that every theory is not a theory but fact. Real scientists do not state with authority that every thing they say is true nor that every theory is proven.

When ask to provide evidence you resort to statements like " the theory says' Or " a scientist said" And have not given a single piece of evidence. For example the scientific history of man is full of holes and scientists ADMIT it. You claim there is an unbroken chain back millions of years. No scientist claims that. You claim that just because there is a skull that proves that each of the species in question are related, that is simply not true and in the past several of the bones have been proven to be faked or not what was originally claimed. You claim that because I have not seen any ACTUAL evidence to support an as yet UNPROVEN Theory I doubt science and am stuck on religion.

Unlike you I have an open mind and am constantly asking for evidence that you simply lie about misstate or misrepresent. I admit it is POSSIBLE that God created man via evolution You can not will not and refuse to admit there is a God at all. I ask for evidence. You just state dogma.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Yes you have you said I was wrong by questioning ANY scientist repeatedly in numerous threads


Never once. Question scientists all you want. But the answers you get will be the evidence that has convinced nearly every educated person on the planet, including those same scientists. But this evidence doesn't convince you. At this point, re: evolution, that's your problem. Keep asking the questions. That's what scientists do every day.


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## Indeependent (Aug 17, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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Why do you lie?
You always claim such.


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## Indeependent (Aug 17, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


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Don't bother; FFI has in Internet PhD.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

Indeependent said:


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Neato!

So, professor...why do you suppose the  skulls from the Pleistocene appear to follow a fairly smooth continuum. And why do they all look so much more human than earlier ape skulls? And progressively more so, as you follow the timeline.

Coincidence? The gods trying to fool us?


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## Indeependent (Aug 17, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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You mean the skulls from the humans who were suffering from arthritis and other physical disorders?
Oh yeah, I heard of them...you didn't.

You never answered my question about the single celled organism becoming millions of male/female pairs.
Because you can't and no evolutionist will ever bother to try and answer it because they can't.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 17, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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You claimed unbroken trail back millions of years here is the Smithsonian's interactive guide NOTICE all the breaks and in some cases more then one species that supposedly was an ancestor of man. Human Evolution Timeline Interactive


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> You mean the skulls from the humans who were suffering from arthritis and other physical disorders?


All of them?  Some of them? There are 100s.  You can look at them. Somehow, of the rare fossils that we found, most or all were deformed?  Surely you understand that this is absurd.



Indeependent said:


> You never answered my question about the single celled organism becoming millions of male/female pairs.


I did, the very first time I heard you ask it. I provided you with the best explanation that we currently have.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> You claimed unbroken trail back millions of years


Yep, pretty much. As unbroken as any other. It's very well-evidenced.. Nobody expects to have a fossil from every single one of the 100s of 1000s of generations between old and new species.  Except nutters trying to rig the game.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 17, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


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> > You claimed unbroken trail back millions of years
> ...


LOL they don't even show a straight progression but broken in time and place. And the only defining characteristic they use to claim a monkey is a man is they sometimes walked up right. You are simply stupid there is no unbroken record and there isn't even a direct link from one to the next except they seem to have walked upright at times. Again the ONLY actual verifiable record is about 400 thousand years old. And that is of a Monkey.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 17, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> LOL they don't even show a straight progression but broken in time and place.


Uh, yes they do. As much as anyone could ask for. Look at them.

Again, the evidence that has convinced nearly every educated person on the planet isn't enough for you. At this point, that's your problem. Nobody else's. I am sure you can reject evolution and lead a long, happy life.


----------



## abu afak (Aug 17, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
> 
> 
> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
> ...


""" Though all present-day life on Earth requires oxygen to survive, the sea and sky were not oxygen-rich when life first emerged. Photo from nuisk17 / Getty Images. """

So you are accepting Genesis was, and still IS Wrong.
`


----------



## ding (Aug 18, 2020)

abu afak said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
> ...











						New Big Bang evidence supports Biblical creation, says Orthodox physicist
					

Counters nonreligious professor: The Genesis account of the formation of the heavens and the earth has nothing to do with science




					www.timesofisrael.com


----------



## Hollie (Aug 18, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> “National Socialism derives from each of the two camps the pure idea that characterizes it, national resolution from bourgeois tradition; vital, creative socialism from the teaching of Marxism.”
> 
> Interview by Hanns Johst in _Frankforter Volksblatt_, Jan. 27, 1934, David Schoenbaum, _Hitler’s Social Revolution: Class and Status in Nazi Germany, 1933–1939_, New York: NY, W. W. Norton & Company, 1997, p. 57
> 
> But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. – Adolf Hitler




Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

Adolf Hitler



I am personally convinced of the great power and deep significance of Christianity, and I won't allow any other religion to be promoted.

Adolf Hitler


As for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the same policy which the Catholic Church has adopted for fifteen hundred years, when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos etc., because it knew what the Jews were like. I don't put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for Church and State, and perhaps I am doing Christianity a great service.

Adolf Hitler


I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Almighty Creator. By fighting the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work.

Adolf Hitler


Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years.

Adolf Hitler


----------



## Hollie (Aug 18, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> “National Socialism derives from each of the two camps the pure idea that characterizes it, national resolution from bourgeois tradition; vital, creative socialism from the teaching of Marxism.”
> 
> Interview by Hanns Johst in _Frankforter Volksblatt_, Jan. 27, 1934, David Schoenbaum, _Hitler’s Social Revolution: Class and Status in Nazi Germany, 1933–1939_, New York: NY, W. W. Norton & Company, 1997, p. 57
> 
> But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. – Adolf Hitler


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

Hollie ... why do you know so many quotes from Adolf Hitler? ...


----------



## ChemEngineer (Aug 18, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Unlike you I have an open mind and am constantly asking for evidence that you simply lie about misstate or misrepresent. I admit it is POSSIBLE that God created man via evolution You can not will not and refuse to admit there is a God at all. I ask for evidence. You just state dogma.



Gunny, YOU are The Man. Please don't waste your time on hateful ignorati.  They're not worth it.  Use Ignore option.

Now please see this:  Let's Examine Claims of Atheists

If you have any suggestions or additions, please PM me.  I'm eager to improve it any way I can.

I also maintain Proof There Is No God

so named to attract atheists where their lies and condescension are sliced and diced.


----------



## ChemEngineer (Aug 18, 2020)

ding said:


> abu afak said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


ding my Friend, I just sent an email to professor Piran, expressing my dissent from his claim that the Bible is not a scientific document.  Scientific truths permeate the Scriptures as can be seen at Proof There Is No God

Don't waste your time on hateful ignorati when there are far more productive things you could do with those minutes.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 18, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Hollie ... why do you know so many quotes from Adolf Hitler? ...


It is a way to educate the ‘’Hitler was not a Christian”, Christians.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 18, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > abu afak said:
> ...



You sure do scare away easily.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

Hollie said:


> It is a way to educate the ‘’Hitler was not a Christian”, Christians.



Ah ... I'm a "The Soviets weren't Christians" type of Christian ...


----------



## Hollie (Aug 18, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > It is a way to educate the ‘’Hitler was not a Christian”, Christians.
> ...


At least you're not the "they weren't Christian because they did something that would cause other Christians to define them out of Christianity'', kind of Christian.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

Hollie said:


> At least you're not the "they weren't Christian because they did something that would cause other Christians to define them out of Christianity'', kind of Christian.



Unfortunately, I'm the kind of Christian who will shove my religion down your throat until you gag and puke and agree with me just to get me to shut the fuck up already ... with some ideas to try with a CRISPER machine is all ...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 18, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Ah ... I'm a "The Soviets weren't Christians" type of Christian ...


Yet they were very religious all the same...


----------



## Hollie (Aug 18, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > At least you're not the "they weren't Christian because they did something that would cause other Christians to define them out of Christianity'', kind of Christian.
> ...


Yes, unfortunately you may be the angry kind of Christian who wants to force his religion on others.

How nice. 

Consider Santeria. You could fashion dolls into the likenesses of people and plunge large needles into them.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > Ah ... I'm a "The Soviets weren't Christians" type of Christian ...
> ...



Are you eaves-dropping on a private conversation just to criticize my spelting? ... shame on you, I hope the soffit board clonks you atop your head ... spelting is overratted ...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 18, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > ReinyDays said:
> ...


Uh...no...just a reminder that the russian population was, indeed, very religious.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Yes, unfortunately you may be the angry kind of Christian who wants to force his religion on others.
> How nice.
> Consider Santeria. You could fashion dolls into the likenesses of people and plunge large needles into them.



"(When human written language developed enough to set down the oral tradition, what should it have read if the Bible so offends you?)" ... he parenthetically screamed ...


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Uh...no...just a reminder that the russian population was, indeed, very religious.



"Soviet" literally means council ... like a city council ... "Union of Soviets" means all the city councils together ... the Soviets themselves were not religious, either in Russia or the United States ... 

Russians in general are not, nor have they ever been, all that deeply religious ...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 18, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> the Soviets themselves were not religious


Of course they were. Very much so. Stalinism was a religion and stalin was considered a god.


----------



## abu afak (Aug 18, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> I also maintain Proof There Is No God
> 
> so named to attract atheists where their lies and condescension are sliced and diced.


I went to your IDIOTIC website which of course is full of lie and fallacies
ie
​*Atheist Fallacy: * *"You can't prove that God exists."  And "There is no evidence that God exists."*​​These are mere semantics, verbal games.  What serves as evidence or proof for some intelligent and reasonable people cannot be expected to be interpreted the same way by everyone, regardless of their intentions or biases.​"Nothing is known for certain except in pure mathematics." - Astronomer Carl Sagan​"You only get proof in mathematics." - Mathematics Professor John Lennox​

Actually it's always me saying there is no Proof in evolution because science doesn't have proofs, only math does.
But somewhere down the Lying line you DISHONESTLY dropped "evidence," which is overwhelming for Evolution and non-existent for god/s.
(Which/Witch god? btw)
What a low IQ clown you are.
What an embarrassment of goofy premise and logic errors it is.

This is what I call the "everything is just a belief" fallacy.
IOW, (by fallaciously raising the bar to 100%) you're seeking to equate the idea of ie, a 4 light Year Long Marshmallow controlling all life on earth (1%) is as good as evolution (99%) because neither can be "proven"/100%. 
But of course, that's not true, because again, evolution has overwhelming EVIDENCE, the marshmallow/god none.
`


----------



## ding (Aug 18, 2020)

I'm a he's an 8 handicap Christian who thinks he can get down to a 6 kinda Christian.

But I wasn't eavesdropping. I wouldn't want my eaves (aka hardy board soffit in my case) to drop on my head.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 18, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, unfortunately you may be the angry kind of Christian who wants to force his religion on others.
> ...


The truth might have been nice. Why did the gods not care about the errors and omissions? Why did the gods allow largely unknown writers to set down accounts tens of years after the actual events?


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Of course they were. Very much so. Stalinism was a religion and stalin was considered a god.



HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW  ... c.f. Nikita Khrushchev ... damn, you say the stupidest things ...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 18, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Of course they were. Very much so. Stalinism was a religion and stalin was considered a god.
> ...


Such as? Stalin was a totalitarian god on earth. People thanked Stalin for their meals the way you say grace.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

abu afak said:


> ... because science doesn't have proofs, only math does.



The math describing a geocentric solar system is robust ... on an exoscale computer, epicycles are perfect predictors of planetary motion ... math itself doesn't describe physical principles ... and the physics of a geocentric solar system is wrong ...

Math is a tool in the toolbox ... a hammer doesn't build a house, a carpenter does ... big difference ... biology _will be_ based on robust mathematics ... someday ... the field has been _very_ active in this endeavor ... as a Christian, trying is as good as doing ... bitch to God when you die if you don't like it ...


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

ding said:


> I'm a he's an 8 handicap Christian who thinks he can get down to a 6 kinda Christian.
> But I wasn't eavesdropping. I wouldn't want my eaves (aka hardy board soffit in my case) to drop on my head.



I've provided safe affordable housing for the widows and orphans of my community ... so I can honestly say God's a cheapskate ... but at least I don't pay taxes to the filthy heathens ... 
Hardy board is for pussies ... a full one inch by a full twelve inch quartersawn Douglas Fir ... a real man's soffit board ... _*American*_ Queen Anne ... kids today wouldn't know a cornice if it bit them in the ass ...


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Such as? Stalin was a totalitarian god on earth. People thanked Stalin for their meals the way you say grace.



You'd get your tongue cut out if you said that in 1960 USSR ... it's not a goddamn religion if you can "destalinize" it ... fool ...


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 18, 2020)

Hollie said:


> The truth might have been nice. Why did the gods not care about the errors and omissions? Why did the gods allow largely unknown writers to set down accounts tens of years after the actual events?



45,000 years of oral tradition ... and you want scientific truth? ... maybe only important stuff made it through ... like not making babies with your siblings ... or given wimin a week's paid vacation every month ... or pooping 38 cubits from your home ... not murdering each other ... 
Thank you for not kissing me ... seems everybody is watching us ...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 18, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> You'd get your tongue cut out if you said that in 1960 USSR


Oh, sorry, I didn't realize you weren't recognizing events during Stalin's rule. Are you arguing this slaughter in the 1960s, perpetrated by Russia, was in the name of atheism?  Wha?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 18, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > You'd get your tongue cut out if you said that in 1960 USSR
> ...


As soon as Stalin was dead he was forgotten. They did not worship him they feared him.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 18, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> As soon as Stalin was dead he was forgotten.


But the totalitarianism was not. Even a run of the mill totalitarian state was an improvement from Stalinism.


----------



## Lewdog (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
> 
> 
> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
> ...



They should have had a trailcam set up to catch the moment billions of years ago, then we wouldn't be having this discussion now.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie ... why do you know so many quotes from Adolf Hitler? ...
> ...



You clearly have zero understanding on what it means to be a Christian.  You seem to not understand politicians either.  You probably think Bill and Hillary Clinton are Christians too.


----------



## Quasar44 (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
> 
> 
> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
> ...


 That is false !! You’re a science illiterate 
Took hundreds of millions of years for green plants to form which produced the oxygen for bigger brains and life


----------



## Quasar44 (Aug 19, 2020)

Green plants formed by using the suns energy 
They have evolution down cold


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > ReinyDays said:
> ...


Actually, I am the true authority on what it means to be a Christian.


----------



## ding (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a he's an 8 handicap Christian who thinks he can get down to a 6 kinda Christian.
> ...


All due respect to the Douglas Fir nothing beats Hardy for low maintenance, long life and holding paint.  I think I had a cornice game hen once.  

Nail guns are for pussies!


----------



## ding (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> I've provided safe affordable housing for the widows and orphans of my community ... so I can honestly say God's a cheapskate


God's response: "I sent you, didn't I?"


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > The truth might have been nice. Why did the gods not care about the errors and omissions? Why did the gods allow largely unknown writers to set down accounts tens of years after the actual events?
> ...


Well that's strange. Who did Noah and his immediate family procreate with after the Ark docked?


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Well that's strange. Who did Noah and his immediate family procreate with after the Ark docked?


Wives ...


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

ding said:


> All due respect to the Douglas Fir nothing beats Hardy for low maintenance, long life and holding paint.  I think I had a cornice game hen once.
> Nail guns are for pussies!



Show me 125 year old Hardy board ...


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Well that's strange. Who did Noah and his immediate family procreate with after the Ark docked?
> ...


And sisters...


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

Humans have no clue how life started.

If all it took was a little water, a few organic compounds and some energy every Jr High Science class would be creating life as a classroom lab.

If the universe is finite then there will unique things in it.  It could very well be that advanced life or even microbial life is unique to earth.

We won't know until we get another data point by finding life outside earth.

Even creating life in a lab won't do it because we will not know if the conditions exist elsewhere.


----------



## ding (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > All due respect to the Douglas Fir nothing beats Hardy for low maintenance, long life and holding paint.  I think I had a cornice game hen once.
> ...


Ok, but you'll need to wait another 110 years.


----------



## westwall (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
> 
> 
> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
> ...







Actually geologists have known for a long time that the atmosphere contained no free oxygen in the atmosphere for billions of years.  Complex life forms begin about 2.5 billion years ago, but we don't have free oxygen till 1.7 billion years ago.

This article is typical brain dead click bait by a "reporter " who never took a science class.


----------



## ding (Aug 19, 2020)

It's not an accident that a universe capable of creating intelligence popped into existence.


----------



## ding (Aug 19, 2020)

Predestined by the laws of nature.... organic molecular machines.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> If all it took was a little water, a few organic compounds and some energy every Jr High Science class would be creating life as a classroom lab.



It also takes time ... not many Jr High School classes last a million years ...

Just a nitpick ... ammonia, water and carbon dioxide are not organic compounds ... so just methane is ... and all these compounds are common in the universe ... so really, it's just water in it's liquid state that's needed, everything else is available in abundance ... especially time ...


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> And sisters...



The Bible says wives ... could have been sisters ... you might be shocked to learn just how long political spin has been around ...


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > If all it took was a little water, a few organic compounds and some energy every Jr High Science class would be creating life as a classroom lab.
> ...




The thing is that we don't really don't know how to change chemistry into biology.

Until we figure it then have nothing.

It may be that the events that turned chemistry into biology here on on earth are so rare that life is unique.

For instance, the moon played a large part in it from what I understand.  The tidal pools are considered to be where life originated.  Back then the moon was  closer and there were more massive tidal surges.  The days were much shorter.  The atmosphere was different that allowed a different spectrum of radiation to penetrate to the surface.  

So many factors that came into play.  It is a lot more than just having the chemical components.  Those components may be common in the universe but that doesn't mean life exist elsewhere.

One of the great unknowns of science.  We will never know the answer until we find life elsewhere.  If we never find it then we will never know, which is a real possibility.

Even if we do manage to create life in a test tube unless we find it elsewhere we never know if exist outside the earth.   

My personal opinion is that the universe is probably pretty much sterile.  Not only sterile but very dangerous and hostile to life.  Earth may very well be unique.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

"Life elsewhere" cannot be falsified ... thus is a philosophical position ... we can apply scientific principles to the question, but at it's heart, it is not a scientific question ... 

The Moon certainly had a roll in the development of life on land ... and you seem to only care about cute adorable fuzzy lifeforms with faces that resemble human infants ... whereas most likely these alien life forms will be yeast type organisms, things that ferment rather than respirate ... even piggy-backing an interferometer on the scaled up version of the LIGO experiment won't be able to detect this type of life ...

There's some technological issues with resolving objects a few microns in diameter from 10 light-years away ... issues that may never be fixed ... so not having the ability to see alien life isn't proof it doesn't exist ... and the millions of years for a lab experiment to answer this question will just have to be something we'll be waiting on ... 

We observe that all of life on Earth seems to follow certain rules ... with these rules in hand, we can say they must be true, see how all of life seems to follow them ... the logical fallacy of "Begging the Question" ... If A, then A ... we take no step to further our understanding ... someday we'll see the N2/O2 spectrum from an exoplanet ... proof positive of advanced life ... someday ... maybe in our lifetimes if we build the right telescope ...


----------



## james bond (Aug 19, 2020)

abu afak said:


> So you are accepting Genesis was, and still IS Wrong.



No.  We have accepted that you were wrong and are still wrong.  Atheists and their scientists are usually wrong.


----------



## james bond (Aug 19, 2020)

Quasar44 said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
> ...



Takes too long.  The Earth would be gone by then.  Rocks and fossils would've dissolved and crumbled into dust.  Stars would've spent their fuel or exploded.  The planets, stars, solar systems, and galaxies are not indestructible.  Where's your common sense?


----------



## james bond (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



You are the true authority on what it means to be an Anti-Christian.  You have a way of always getting things wrong.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

james bond said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...



What things?


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

james bond said:


> Quasar44 said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



There’s a certain irony with a believer in magic and supernaturalism lecturing about common sense.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> There’s a certain irony with a believer in magic and supernaturalism lecturing about common sense.



I find it more ironic that Ian Flemming's James Bond is a murderer, a thief, a spy and a rapist ... not a name I would use to advocate Christian lifestyle ...


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Quasar44 said:
> ...



There's no "common sense" in believing that life came from non-life, or that the universe, natural laws and everything in existence put itself together by dumb luck.  In fact, that's the opposite of common sense.  That's pure foolishness while thinking one is so smart.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > If all it took was a little water, a few organic compounds and some energy every Jr High Science class would be creating life as a classroom lab.
> ...



Ah, yes.  With enough time, anything can happen.  A pile of rubble might turn itself into a cathedral.  Let's just give a few billion years!


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> james bond said:
> 
> 
> > Quasar44 said:
> ...




You mean like these secularist that believe that the universe magically created itself out of nothing?

That is the best magic trick of all time, isn't it?


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> .. someday we'll see the N2/O2 spectrum from an exoplanet . ... proof positive of advanced life .



No, you may be a little confused.

Proof positive would be for humans to visit another planet or moon that has life, either existing or in some fossil record, or life coming here.  

If we never find life elsewhere then we will never know.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > There’s a certain irony with a believer in magic and supernaturalism lecturing about common sense.
> ...



That's exactly what I was thinking.  It's hilarious that they are always going on and on about "magic" when what they believe is infinitely more "magical" and takes far, far, FAR more faith.  I definitely wouldn't have enough faith to be an atheist.


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

The problem that humans have is that we have been brainwashed for 100 years by Science Fiction.

We are absolutely sure that life exist elsewhere because we read about it in books, see it on TV and in the movies.

However, the cold hard facts is that the only thing that is real is that life exist on earth.  We have absolutely no proof it exist elsewhere.  There are no Green Orion Slave Girls for Cpt Kirk to screw.  There is no ET.  There is no Rebel Alliance fighting the Evil Empire  in a galaxy far, far away.

We all want to believe but it ain't real.


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



Absolutely!

If we are not the result of intelligent design then the only alternative is that the universe magically created itself out of nothing, which is nothing more than ridiculous magic.  Against all the Laws of Physics that we understand.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> There's no "common sense" in believing that life came from non-life, or that the universe, natural laws and everything in existence put itself together by dumb luck.  In fact, that's the opposite of common sense.  That's pure foolishness while thinking one is so smart.



Gravity is dumb luck? ... I'm very interested and would like to subscribe to your newsletter ...


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> The problem that humans have is that we have been brainwashed for 100 years by Science Fiction.
> 
> We are absolutely sure that life exist elsewhere because we read about it in books, see it on TV and in the movies.
> 
> ...



I agree.  In fact, I'd go a step further and say that we've been lied to about most things.  The more I learn, through study and life experience, the more I realize that the powers who run this world have done everything they can to mislead the public away from actual truth.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > There's no "common sense" in believing that life came from non-life, or that the universe, natural laws and everything in existence put itself together by dumb luck.  In fact, that's the opposite of common sense.  That's pure foolishness while thinking one is so smart.
> ...



Never said that, try again.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> There are no Green Orion Slave Girls for Cpt Kirk to screw.



That would have been Cpt Pike ...


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...



*... everything in existence put itself together by dumb luck ...*

Everything in existence put itself together by gravity ...


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > ReinyDays said:
> ...


OHH and where did gravity come from?


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > ReinyDays said:
> ...



Saying that something *came about *by dumb luck is not the same thing as saying that the thing itself is dumb luck. Comprende?


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


What can you tell us about supernatural entities doing everything you claim could not have happened naturally?

Show us the magic.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > james bond said:
> ...


I'm not sure where you got ''the universe out of nothing'', slogan. The expansion of the universe was preceded by _something_. There doesn't appear to be anything supernatural about the expansion of the universe. In fact, the laws of physics as we know them appear to operate all the way back to fractions of a second after the expansion started. 

What elements of physics can you identify as supernatural?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


LOL and what CREATED them before that second?


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



I wasn't there.  And frankly, I'm not that interested in the HOW (which we finite little humans probably aren't even capable of understanding anyway) I'm more interested in the Source.  But hey, if you want to spend your life trying to figure out how it was created, go right ahead.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


LOL science is exploring that.

LOL tell us about that unionized consortium of gods which created the planet 6,000 years ago, you know, by supernatural means.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


I never claimed the planet is only 6000 years old, Only fools do that. I happen to believe in science I just don't drink the kool aid on unproven theories.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > ReinyDays said:
> ...


I can understand your not being interested in learning about anything not in the Bible. Everything you need to know is in there.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Science has it's place. But worshiping science is not the answer.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



"The gods did it.''

Every question is answered.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


There is only one God. And yes he created everything and yes science tries to explain it which is fine and should happen.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



That is absolutely false. But I can see that you are very presumptuous.  Or I guess you just have your own little ideas about believers in your head, then you try to force everyone to fit your preconceived ideas.


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > There are no Green Orion Slave Girls for Cpt Kirk to screw.
> ...


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


"....because I say so''. That's not a commandment I follow.

Besides, all the other gods disagree with you.


----------



## ChemEngineer (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> You mean like these secularist that believe that the universe magically created itself out of nothing?
> 
> That is the best magic trick of all time, isn't it?



*Yes it is.*


----------



## ChemEngineer (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> View attachment 376987



Green on the outside, .... oh wait. That's vulgar.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


Actually, my own little ideas about believers are derived from the own little ideas believers express.

Would it be best not to believe the believers?


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...




The Big Bang is literally something outta nutin.  Magic.

What was there before the BB?

Where did the energy from the BB come from?

What initiated the BB?

What controlled the evolution of the universe to create life on earth and maybe elsewhere?

Nobody has the answers to those very basic questions.

Intelligent design is a more logical explanation than that magic BS.


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > View attachment 376987
> ...




It is all pink in the middle.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


ID'iot creationism is magic under a burqa of religion.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



I've been around tons of believers, and I've never known one who doesn't want to learn anything that's not in the bible.  Obviously the bible doesn't talk about numerous things, and there are many different ways of knowing truth. So yeah, you do seem to have narrow little stereotypes of believers that you came up with... either that or you've been around a small handful of Christians with views unlike any I've ever known.


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > ReinyDays said:
> ...




By intelligent design.  If the gravity constant was a tad more the universe would not have come together like it is.  The same with a tad less.  God put the right formula together, didn't He?


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


I've been around tons of believers, and I've never known one who wants to learn anything that's not in the bible.  

My ton is heavier than your ton.


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...




The Secularists believe in big time magic.  The Big Bang is literally magic.  To get around the absurd idea of a Big Bang the idiots come up with bullshit like "oh, the Laws of Physics didn't exist".  Really?


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...




The Bible is not a science book.  It is a book that describes the relationship between Man and God.

If you went to church you would know that.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


You are a bald faced liar very few people don't believe in science. I agree there are a couple SMALL sects that don't really but they are minuscule. The vast majority of Christians accept science and believe science does good for the most part. We just don't worship at scientists feet like you and a couple others around here do.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


If today was Tuesday it wouldn't be Wednesday. 

If things were different, things would be different. Strange how that works.

If the gods had made gravity a little differently, the planet wouldn't have been struck 65 million years ago. 

Those gods, they're so careless.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...



Others say science is just now discovering the science text of the bible. Why are they right and you are wrong?


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


Oh, well, as long as you say so, but very few people believe you.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...



Some (or many?) of them don't believe the Big Bang anymore.  But that doesn't change the fact that what they believe is still the greatest Magic Trick of all time.  That's why I always giggle when they go on and on about "magic" as they look down their nose at believers.


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...




The Book of Genesis is a discussion on the relationship between Man and God.  There is no science in it.  If someone wants to assign science to it then that is fine but has no real basis in the text.


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...




The BB is a placeholder that scientists use to explain the unexplainable.  They even admit it.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


Except the worshipers of science claim it is factually true and even proven just like how they claim it is proven man descended from an ape like creature.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> You clearly have zero understanding on what it means to be a Christian


Well now you know how you look posting in science threads.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> The BB is a placeholder that scientists use to explain the unexplainable. They even admit it.


That's not true at all. Not even close.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > You clearly have zero understanding on what it means to be a Christian
> ...



That's funny, since I almost never post on science threads.  Nice try!


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> Humans have no clue how life started.


No, we have quite a few clues. And we do know it started. Just as we know stars form.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


That is still too often.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> OHH and where did gravity come from?


What a nonsensical question. You want the coordinates in space where gravity first pulled on something?. Of course, that means you think you know the correct answer, haha


----------



## Dick Foster (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
> 
> 
> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
> ...


Nor can it seem religion. The difference is science usually admits that it's guessing while religion insists that it's right in spite of ample evidence to the contrary.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> Intelligent design is a more logical explanation than that magic BS.


No it isn't, because it isn't an explanation at all. It is substituting one mystery for another. It grants no insight and yields no useful predictions. It's no more an "explanation" than saying "unicorns waved magic wands".


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> The Big Bang is literally something outta nutin. Magic.


No it isn't. You don't know much about Big Bang Theory at all, it seems.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> . I happen to believe in science


You most certainly do not. The evidence that shows the earth is older than 6000 years also dates our fossils.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > The Big Bang is literally something outta nutin. Magic.
> ...


Name a well know scientist that claims the Big Bang theory is proven?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > . I happen to believe in science
> ...


Look RETARD I don't believe the earth is 6000 years old.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > The Big Bang is literally something outta nutin. Magic.
> ...


Your response dropped the context of his post.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Some (or many?) of them don't believe the Big Bang anymore


Totally wrong. They all still believe in a hot big bang. All the evidence shows us this happened. What they do not agree on is everything that happened before the big bang. Nor does anyone claim to know with any certainty.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I don't believe the earth is 6000 years old.


And yet you reject the evidence that shows us the age of the earth, when it suits your magical fetishes to do so.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> response dropped the context of his post.


Lie. As anyone can see for themselves. And his statement is wrong, regardless of context.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > response dropped the context of his post.
> ...











						Big Bang theory wrong? Star older than Universe discovered
					

THE Big Bang theory has been thrown into question after scientists discovered a star which appears to be older than the Universe itself – and it could lead to a “scientific crisis”.




					www.express.co.uk
				




As in the Torah, Dark Energy existed before Light.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe the earth is 6000 years old.
> ...


No I don't link to ANY claim by me that says I don't believe science when it says how old the Earth is, then link to any claim by me that says the earth is only 6000 years old, then link to any claim by me that denies the fossil records.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Name a well know scientist that claims the Big Bang theory is proven?


Name one that thinks it is false. And before you do, understand that the big bang is what happened after the expansion area. Lots of people like you don't know what the big bang is, and lots of lay articles incorporate more into big bang theory than it actually contains.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > response dropped the context of his post.
> ...


Your response dropped every sentence after his 1st sentence.
What does it take for you to feel shame?


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Name a well know scientist that claims the Big Bang theory is proven?
> ...


Big bang is not proven and in fact there is now evidence BY science that something is older then when science claims it happened. Yet you worship science and think theories and assumptions are facts.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> As in the Torah, Dark Energy existed before Light


Magical nonsense...retrofitting modern knowledge to piss poor iron age philosophy and superstition...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Your response dropped every sentence after his 1st sentence.


Last response to this whining: it changed no context. His statement is false.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Some (or many?) of them don't believe the Big Bang anymore
> ...



I was talking about posters here, not scientists.  Some do not agree with the Big Bang, but something similar.  At least based on what I've read here.  But thanks for letting us know that the Big Bang is still the predominant view, that only makes our point stronger.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > As in the Torah, Dark Energy existed before Light
> ...


I presume you have never studied Tractate Sanhendrin.
The Jews were on board way before your scientists.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


The Big Bank is really a dated expression for the expansion of the universe. There is actually a lot of well established evidence for the expansion that is still taking place. 

Science is less established on the evidence for gods, demons, satan, angels playing harps, etc,


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Big bang is not proven


The big bang is as proven as anything else we know. The problem here is that you don't know what the big bang is. 

That evidence isn't evidence. The error bar of that star's (Methuselah's) age is well within the known age of the universe.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> I presume you have never studied Tractate Sanhendrin.
> The Jews were on board way before your scientists.


Take your horseshit walking to the religion section. Thanks in advance.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Big bang is not proven
> ...


Yup keep worshiping science not even scientists make the claims you make.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> The Big Bank is really a dated expression for the expansion of the universe.


The "hot big bang" (no capitalization necessary) is what occured at the end of the inflationary era. As you implied, it basically continues to this day.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Yup keep worshiping science not even scientists make the claims you make.


But you know less than nothing about either evolution or the big bang. So i am not compelled.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


You apparently don't know that the Big Bang refers to the expansion of universe, not a literal explosion. 

There's no magic about the universe expanding. That is measurable. 

What laws of physics don't exist?


----------



## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...




There is no science that says that the universe can create itself out of nothing.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > I presume you have never studied Tractate Sanhendrin.
> ...


Sorry, oh arrogant one, people who lived 1,500 ago also had brains and understood way more than you're willing to admit.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> There is no science that says that the universe can create itself out of nothing.


Well that's completely wrong. Have you read anything about any of this since your sophomore science class?


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


For the 1 billionth time, the Laws Of Physics admits you cannot create matter.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

This is what comes to mind when I read posts here, by atheists:

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools"

Romans 1:22


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


I'm not aware that the science community makes any such claim. 

Tell us about the hierarchy of designer gods who were subordinate to the higher level designer gods, unless of course, you insist that magic and supernaturalism applies to gods which always existed, crested out of nothing, by magical means.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Sorry, oh arrogant one, people who lived 1,500 ago also had brains and understood way more than you're willing to admit.


No they didn't. They knew shit about shit. They were ignorant, terrified, superstitious people taking philosophical clues from their own colons.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > There is no science that says that the universe can create itself out of nothing.
> ...


Link?
And not the Link from several weeks ago where you misread the title.
No ad hominems...Link to where matter can be created.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


No one said that there's "magic" in the universe expanding.  The "magic" is in everything coming about by dumb luck.   I mean, I admire your faith... really!


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Your god is science and I bet you don't have the educational background in physics, chemistry, biology, etc...


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> For the 1 billionth time, the Laws Of Physics admits you cannot create matter.


No, the laws say you cannot create ENERGY. And the net energy of the universe may be zero.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > For the 1 billionth time, the Laws Of Physics admits you cannot create matter.
> ...


Wow!  Arrogant one...energy *is* applied to matter and science still doesn't understand inertia.
Now where does science say the matter came from?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> The "magic" is in everything coming about by dumb luck.


Why would that be magic? And what a nonsensical argument on your part. 

"Everything arising from dumb luck would be magic! Therefore, everything was created by MAGIC! Well, a different type of magic...that matches my preferred, iron aged mythology...."


Makes perfect sense, if you don't think about it.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> energy *is* applied to matter


And matter can be created from energy. See? You learned something.

Science says matter came from energy being converted to matter. You learned two things.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > For the 1 billionth time, the Laws Of Physics admits you cannot create matter.
> ...


Who gives a damn about net energy.
Of course if something can't be created or destroyed the net = 0; I bet you failed Accounting.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > energy *is* applied to matter
> ...


Energy is matter or it wouldn't exist.
Next you're going to tell me electricity is not made of matter.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> This is what comes to mind when I read posts here, by atheists:
> 
> "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools"
> 
> Romans 1:22


What is foolish about the search for knowledge, exploring the natural world, learning how nature works?

You may despise science and exploration because it tends to reduce your gods resume' but that doesn't entitle anyone to think their fears and superstitions should be a limitation for others.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > energy *is* applied to matter
> ...


If there was no net energy then where did the energy to create matter come FROM?


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Link?


To what, exactly? Be very specific. Don't waste my time.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


FFI and Hollie will spend the next 1,000,000,00 posts avoiding that issue.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> If there was no net energy then where did the energy to create matter come FROM?


Not sure. But it is balanced by negative energy, which probably originated at the same time and place.  And the net energy of our universe may very well be zero.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > If there was no net energy then where did the energy to create matter come FROM?
> ...


Once again, 1-1 does not mean 1 doesn't exist.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> FFI and Hollie will spend the next 1,000,000,00 posts avoiding that issue.


Wrong again.... Did you just come here to whine lile a little bitch and quote religious texts?

Scientists are tackling these questions. All quite in spite of you cackling religious nutters. Maybe go read up on their efforts.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Once again, 1-1 does not mean 1 doesn't exist.


Nobody claimed otherwise...but thanks...


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > This is what comes to mind when I read posts here, by atheists:
> ...



I never claimed that and that's certainly not what I believe, not even close.  In fact, you managed to get every single thing you said wrong.

Your presumptuousness and narrow little false stereotypes are back at it again.

If you really want to know what that scripture is about, look in the mirror.  It's about people who think they're so smart, but end up becoming fools, because they try to explain everything away, the way atheists do.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


In reference to various gods and claims to their performing unnatural events, unverified claims to supernatural events, I use magic and supernaturalism interchangeably. 

Pulling a rabbit out of a hat and various gods creating existence from nothing falls somewhere between magic and supernaturalism on the logarithmic scale of silliness.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

LOL so s


Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > If there was no net energy then where did the energy to create matter come FROM?
> ...


aying that science has not proven it is in fact a TRUE statement since you can get matter with out energy and no one can prove there was any energy before matter was created. Yet you worship at the feet of scientists who do not foolishly even make the ignorant claims you make and claim are fact.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


But creating something out of nothing is explained by science? Be specific now and link to this claim.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


I find a certain humility in the sense that science can be wrong and must adjust as new information may change what was earlier thought to be accurate.

I find a certain dogmatic theme in the angry religionists who hurl bible verses at the evilutionist atheists.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



If we're defining "magical" as silly or ridiculous, then what you believe (everything being the result of dumb luck) is infinitely more magical, and takes far, far, FAR more faith.  Again, I could never have as much faith as you do, really!  



> In reference to various gods



There's only one God.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> and no one can prove there was any energy before matter was created.


All the evidence shows us exactly that. All of it. But the evidence that convinces career scientists doesn't convince a "genius" like you. And that is your problem and nobody else's.

Yes, scientists generally believe the inflationary period occured before the big bang. And this period involved no matter present. Only energy.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > FFI and Hollie will spend the next 1,000,000,00 posts avoiding that issue.
> ...


Scientists, yes.
You..no.
There are plenty of Orthodox Jews with actual credentials working on these issues.
What have you accomplished other than insulting people who believe in God?


----------



## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...



Is creating something out of nothing explained by science or even a claim of science? Do tell.

On the other hand, how is creating something from nothing explained by the gods?


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > and no one can prove there was any energy before matter was created.
> ...


There's no one more full of shit than a career anything.
These professionals respond to their donors.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


How does your god explain it?


----------



## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
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> > Hollie said:
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There's a difference between science itself, and atheists on a message board.

The former may have a certain humility, assuming that it's used in the right way.... but the latter certainly doesn't.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> There are plenty of Orthodox Jews with actual credentials working on these issues.


So what? There are also probably plenty of bicyclists, horoscope readrrs, and gamblers. Completely irrelevant.

And not one single jew in the iron age was working on any of this.

Look at your silly dog and pony show...get back on topic...


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> There's no one more full of shit than a career anything.


Haha...right. Because they are career scientists, they are all incompetent liars. Goddamn you sound like a moron. Just shut up already.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
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> > There's no one more full of shit than a career anything.
> ...


I asked you for a link to a renowned scientist that claims this as fact.


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## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > There are plenty of Orthodox Jews with actual credentials working on these issues.
> ...


Jews were forbidden by the Roman Catholic Church from engaging in white-collar professions.
As soon as Jews were invited by Germany into their universities, the Jews excelled and the envy of the Catholics eventually became the flame for the Holocaust.
Your history sucks.


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## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
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Explain why you think everything is the result of dumb luck. 

There are thousands of gods that humans have invented. Most of those gods were invented before your gods.


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## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
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> > There's no one more full of shit than a career anything.
> ...


Their conclusions ensure their paychecks.
That's why so many firms get sued for releasing dangerous medications.


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## justinacolmena (Aug 19, 2020)

When green growth evolved to metabolize by photosynthesis, it extracted almost all available carbon from CO_2 in the primordial atmosphere, leaving plenty of O_2 for other forms of life that would require it. Did not God Himself create the green plants before the oxygen-breathing animals, according to the Bible?

When these liberal pro-abortion Soros-funded "scientists" cannot acknowledge that the life of an individual human being begins at conception rather than at birth, they have no hope of getting the science right on the beginning of life on earth.


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## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
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You have fallen for the Science god.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I asked you for a link to a renowned scientist that claims this as fact.


What did i say was a fact? Be specific.


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## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
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Haha, it's becoming more clear how you operate. That is what YOU believe, when you boil it all down. I believe the exact opposite.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > I asked you for a link to a renowned scientist that claims this as fact.
> ...


You claim every theory is proven and fact, for example the Big bang and Human evolution.


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## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
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I get the sense that your feelings are hurt by challenges to your religious beliefs. 

Would you prefer that everyone acknowledge that your religion is true and that your gods are true and everyone else accept that their religion and their gods are false?


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## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
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"Haha''. So all the gods invented before your gods were false... because you're right and they were wrong.

Super!


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## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
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More presumptuousness and laughably false statements.

No, I'm totally fine. I'm actually sitting here laughing at those of you who pridefully bash others, thinking you guys are so much smarter than everyone, although I'm not gonna lie, I do feel sorry for you guys too.


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## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
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Nice deflection there!  You completely dodged the point to change what we're talking about.  But whatever, I have to get going anyway.


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## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
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No deflection. If you're not going to support your statement, be honest about that.


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## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
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Challenging your claims to gods is not "bashing".


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## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
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Yes, it was absolutely a deflection, because we were talking about YOUR view that everything came about by dumb luck, and you tried to change the topic into other "gods" or whatever.


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## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Challenging your claims to gods is not "bashing".



I never claimed it was, I was talking name calling, insults, and general nastiness from certain atheists.

But once again, you prove your subtle dishonesty in just about every post.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Their conclusions ensure their paychecks.


That is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. You are such a fool. Scientists literally spend all day every day trying to prove each other and themselves wrong. Nothing makes a scientist more famous than discovering new information that upends parts of a theory. Go back to the religion section. You do not belong here.


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## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Their conclusions ensure their paychecks.
> ...



His statement was absolutely true. And you call him a moron, but you constantly show that you're incredibly naïve with your romantic idea that science is sacrosanct, and scientists are saints.  It seems to have never occurred to you that science can be corrupted, in the same way politics can.


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## ChemEngineer (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> By intelligent design.  If the gravity constant was a tad more the universe would not have come together like it is.  The same with a tad less.  God put the right formula together, didn't He?



"A tad"?
1 over 10 to the 10 to the 120th power you call "a tad"?

There are only 10 to the 80th fundamental particles in the universe.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
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> > Indeependent said:
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What does any of this have to do with anything? What in the world are you babbling about, crybaby?


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> His statement was absolutely true


No, it is false and truly idiotic. What is happening here is that this is a perfect description of anyone who attempts to make a living in your fields of religious nuttery. Gotta toe the magical line.  And since the two of you are steeped in such utter idiotic nonsense, you have been confused into thinking other fields work this way. You both sound like complete morons.


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## ChemEngineer (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> The Book of Genesis is a discussion on the relationship between Man and God.  There is no science in it.  If someone wants to assign science to it then that is fine but has no real basis in the text.



There is abundant science within the Holy Bible.

Science of the Bible​

As a chemical engineer, I understand, and subscribe to the tenets of the scientific method. If anything has given me an appreciation for the Profound Fortuitous Interdependencies* which make life possible, it is the objectivity engendered by my scientific background, coupled with common sense so often lacking in many well educated people. How anti-intellectual it is of the godless Left to denigrate Christians, often maliciously so. Calling Christians “fundies” and “believers in a flat earth” seems to give many people the perverse notion that they are erudite, and can consign Christians to the backwaters of ignorance. Just as Jesus overturned the tables of the money-changers in His Temple, so too is it my intention to overturn the tables of the intolerant Left with these personally written observations correlating science with its Creator.

*Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.*

The Holy Bible was written more than 2000 years ago. In 1924, Edwin Hubble proved that the spiral nebula in the constellation Andromeda was a separate island universe, apart from the Milky Way. This extended the size and scale of our universe by many orders of magnitude. Then, after hearing Albert Einstein's theory of relativity, Georges Lemaître, an ordained Catholic priest, proposed the “primeval atom” in 1927 – in other words, the creation of the universe. This breathtaking advancement in scientific thinking came not from a pontificating atheist, claiming to have exclusive jurisdiction over truth and science, but rather from a devoted follower of the Creator of heaven and earth. Contrary to their pretensions, atheists do not possess the only key to discovery and knowledge.

In 1929, Fred Hubble discovered the Red Shift, eliminating any doubt that Lemaitre was right and Einstein wrong. Einstein had said to Lemaître , "your mathematics is correct but your physics is abominable." This phenomenon, Red Shift, shows that some galaxies are moving away from us at greater speeds than others, and that such velocities are proportional to their distance. This gave strong corroboration to the Big Bang theory of creation. The residual heat predicted in 1927 by Lemaître, and derisively dismissed by Albert Einstein, was later confirmed by Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson who in 1965 discovered the residual background radiation which is a remnant of the Big Bang. Penzias and Wilson of course received the Nobel Prize for their discovery, which was accidental. The penning of Genesis 1:1 was not.

Prior to Lemaître’s radical proposal, scientists believed that the universe was eternal, that it had always been as we see it today. An inherent aspect of the Steady State Universe is the assumption that matter is continuously being created, somewhere, somehow. This passed for science, until it was disproved in the 1965 Astrophysical Journal.

So we see Twentieth Century confirmation of the profoundly deep science originally expressed in the first sentence of the first paragraph of the first book of the Bible, and scientifically advanced centuries later by a Catholic priest (A “Fundie”), before anyone else.

*Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.*

Modern chemistry could not have begun before 1802, when John Dalton formally provided experimental evidence that matter is composed of discrete atoms. Everything before this was mere speculation – guesswork. Nevertheless, it is clearly stated in Genesis that man is “formed of the dust of the ground”, which is to say, the same elements of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, iron, nitrogen, etc, that we find in . . . dust of the ground, minerals.

*Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every foul of the air;*
The same elements which form humans also form animals everywhere. However, there is no Biblical reference to “a living soul” with respect to animals. Nor do animals have the capacity to worship and appreciate the spirituality and hope that is one of the premier hallmarks of mankind, and our supreme bequest.

*Genesis 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.*

One would think that as a result of the disciplines and analyses and benefits of human enlightenment, mankind should have been able to eliminate corruption and violence so prevalent thousands of years ago. Today, we have tools of production and health and social enlightenment unimaginable when the book of Genesis was written. But the earth today is still full of corruption and violence. Cornucopias of goods and services have not satisfied mankind’s lust for more, nor have psychologists and sociologists resolved the complex issues that lead people into destructive behavior. With burgeoning prison populations, and monstrous acts of evil on the increase worldwide, there seems little hope that corruption and violence will ever be eradicated.

*Genesis 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.*

Although the North American Continent was unknown when the Bible was written, paleontologists confirm that the interior of North America was once covered by shallow seas. Fossil evidence from distant parts of the globe that were unknown to inhabitants of ancient Israel lends scientific confirmation to the Noachian Flood described in the most ancient book of science known to man, the Holy Bible. I do not pretend to know the length of the six "days" of creation. However it is abundantly clear to me that the Elegance of Everything and the insuperable statistics of abiogenesis1 and the Anthropic Principle2 are eternally inexplicable by any exclusively naturalistic method. To those with eyes, God’s Hand is clearly visible everywhere one looks.


*Matthew 5:16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven. *

We scientists have found that doing a kindness produces the single most reliable momentary increase in well-being of any exercise we have tested. – *Flourish*, by Martin Seligman, psychologist


If you want to be happy, do good, be kind, give.

*Exodus 3:14 I am hath sent me unto you.....

John 9:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.*

The naturalistic, if you will, “scientific” approach to explaining how man and energy and matter and space originated is to examine what is observable, and formulate hypotheses and theories based on observation and reason. There is no scientific explanation for the origin of matter and energy and information at the Moment of Creation, the Singularity, and obviously no experiment can examine, much less confirm any hypothesis of what first happened to lead to us and everything we see.

In contrast, God defies scientific explanation because He is outside its purview. If miracles were scientifically explicable, they would not be miracles. After all, God created the physical realm that is the subject of scientific inquiry and we are still desperately trying to understand that aspect of His handiwork. Had mere mortals written where God came from without divine inspiration, they surely could not have presented such an elegant explanation as “I am” – an explanation that suffices even two thousand years later. Where did God come from? "I am." The universe is not eternal, but God is.

I have only a vague notion of how my computer works as I type this on it. Although I don’t know how it works, I do know that it is real and that it operates in a marvelous, almost magical way. I don’t need to understand things to believe in and use them. And how much more marvelous is my brain and yours than these primitive computers, not one of which designed, much less built itself.

“Many people don’t realize that science basically involves assumptions and faith. Wonderful things in both science and religion come from our efforts based on observations, thoughtful assumptions, faith and logic. (With the findings of modern physics, it) seems extremely unlikely (that the existence of life and humanity are ) just accidental.” – Charles Townes, Nobel Laureate and Professor of Physics at UC Berkeley

*Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.*

Has anyone the slightest doubt as to how “empty” the North Pole is? Nobody living in the Middle East could possibly have visited “the north” so as to confirm what was then being written. These immutable scientific truths – two here in a single sentence - were far too coincidental to be attributable to luck. No, they were divinely inspired, as were so many things in the Bible. The earth truly hangs “upon nothing”, as confirmed by countless photographs from satellites and space stations, not to mention men on the moon, and the north is indeed an “empty place” by any measure.

*Job 26:14 Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?*

With all our wisdom, and all our science, and all our research, “who can understand” anything today. Ultimate scientific answers continue to elude us everywhere one looks, from the submicroscopic to the supermacroscopic ! The pretense is that all this magnificent science that we see and study arose from nothing, based solely on megatime and megauniverses. Insuperable statistical impossibilities are explained away with clever wordplay and nebulous theories – anything at all to deny the Hand of the Creator so evident to casual observers, of all educational backgrounds, and all nationalities, and all times. That is, except for those who will not see.

"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the shoreline of wonder." - Ralph W. Sockman

* Job 28:5 As for the earth, out of it cometh bread: and under it is turned up as it were fire.*

The molten iron core of the earth was inconceivable because it was not discoverable when this passage was written. “Under (earth) it is turned up as it were fire.”

Ah, some may say, “But there were volcanoes even then.” True enough. But are not volcanoes both isolated and rare, and not so much “under” the earth as above it? The molten core of the earth accords far better with this passage. Their scientific agreement is not coincidental, but rather Divinely inspired and guided.

*Job 38:1,2 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said

Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?*

How often one hears words uttered without knowledge by pretenders of science and enlightenment. "The universe is a free lunch." (Physicist Michio Kaku) The Lord does not take foolishness lightly. Neither should we.

*Job 38:24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?*

The most learned scientist of antiquity could not have imagined the depth of this question. When light is "parted" by a diffraction grating, it can be shown to act both as particles as well as waves. These combinations of properties are difficult to understand much less explain. And the prodigious amounts of energy transmitted by solar radiation does indeed scatter the wind upon the earth as it heats different substances at different rates. Job could not have offered an adequate answer to the question, along the lines of: "Discrete photons of light travel together as a wave until parted into disparate visible components by striking and reflecting from solid objects into our eyes, while other wavelengths give up their energy as they are absorbed by solids and water. Temperature differentials established by ambient sunlight striking dissimilar surfaces create 'the east wind' so described."

*Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork*.

NASA maintains a website which is updated daily. Its purpose, however unintended, is to “declare the glory of God” and to “show his handiwork.”

Astronomy Picture of the Day

How remarkable that so repetitive and well known a phenomenon as sunset can delight people of all ages, and all times, and all civilizations. How much more delightful are the glories and handiworks seen in national parks and sightseeing attractions worldwide, so many of which could scarcely have been known by the Bible’s authors. Nor had the first telescope been invented 2000 years ago. How is it that the more deeply we have seen, the more handiwork we have seen? How is it?

*Psalms 118:24 This is the day the Lord hath made; We will rejoice and be glad in it.*

Twenty-first century medicine confirms the benefits of joyfulness for both our mental health as well as our physical health. "We scientists have found that doing a kindness produces the single most reliable momentary increase in well-being of any exercise we have tested." – Martin Seligman, psychologist, in his book, *Flourish


Psalms 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvelous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.*

Mankind is indeed “fearfully and wonderfully made.” The sophistication of our construction begins at the atomic level with atoms that are one part in 1017 nucleus and the rest empty space. Then consider our DNA, which is 45 trillion times more compact and efficient at data storage than today’s sophisticated computer microchips.

Our brains have the memory capacity of 100 billion megabytes, which far exceeds anything conceivably necessary from a “selection” point of view.

Our optic nerves transmit information at 4 gigabaud, which is 71,000 times faster than a dial up modem, and 1,000 times faster than an ultra-high speed T-1 line for a computer.

The human eye sees in exquisite detail, over about 13 orders of magnitude of light intensity. Although the eye is often said to be flawed in its design by Darwinists and atheists, I would very much like to see them replace a human eye with something better which they have designed and built from lab reagents.

Our ears hear over 13 orders of magnitude in sound intensity. Even more amazing, the ears perform a Fourier Analysis. In other words, our eardrums receive a single wave function at the eardrum. Then they break down this single wave function into its constituent sounds. For example, at a concert, your ears hear drums, brass, violins, solo arias, and the person behind you coughing, only because this blended noise is separated inside your ear. If your eyes performed a similar function, they would break down white just as a prism does, into disparate pure colors.

Finally, our two eyes enable us to discern distance (and relative size) by triangulation. Our brains automatically compute the angle of the object seen, and compute its approximate distance. Similarly, our two ears enable us to discern the direction from which noises emanate not only because we have two ears, but also because of the relatively slow speed of sound. A difference in the arrival time from one ear to another of one thousandth to one ten-thousandth of a second is sufficient to discern, so that we can tell generally where a sound originated. If sound were substantially faster, both our ears would hear the sound at about the same time, and we could not enjoy stereophonic music, nor tell where sounds came from.

In His wisdom, God made these velocities profoundly useful to us (as well, of course, as many, many other physical constants besides). They did not "evolve" to such values. And should they have been substantially different, no evolutionary "modification" could possibly compensate to give us what we now have.

Biochemistry is so profoundly complex that we are only beginning to appreciate how “wonderfully” we are made. Human blood defies LeChatelier’s Principle, in that when one molecule of oxygen is adsorbed by a hemoglobin molecule, its affinity for oxygen grows, instead of diminishing. The second molecule increases the affinity for the third, and the third for the fourth. This is precisely the reverse of normal chemistry principles and experimental observations. Our bodies’ powers of endurance and healing are absolutely astounding.

The list of features of our wonderful construction begins with conception, continues through growth, and concludes with our spiritual transformations evidenced time and again by the scientific observations of such people as Elisabeth Kubler-Ross. Dr. Kubler-Ross documented hundreds of instances of scientific evidence of a spiritual nature. She convincingly testified that she could not be persuaded of any naturalistic (scientific) explanation for it.

*Proverbs 3:20 By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.*

Not only does the mid-Atlantic ridge constitute the continuing breakup of tectonic plates, but also in the depths of the Pacific Ocean also "the depths are broken up," as discovered by modern science, unknown almost two thousand years ago.

*Ecclesiastes 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven;*

“To seek out and search by wisdom.” This is the very definition of science, is it not? "Scientia," Latin for "truth," is the root word of science.


*Ecclesiastes 1:7 All rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence rivers come, thither they return again.*


The cyclical nature of nature encompasses us wherever we look. The water cycle is described only with utmost brevity in Ecclesiastes. Today we understand (considerably better than did Biblical authors) water and its importance in most chemical processes, as well as its profoundly fortuitous cyclical nature, as originally shown in the Bible. Beyond this, we can see and describe cycles of carbon, and nitrogen, and oxygen, and hydrogen. We are able to comprehend the nature of energy, and the conservation of not only energy, but also of matter itself. More complex by far is the transformation of matter into energy, which gives us sunlight continuously. Why should all these things be? And why so reliably? Why are chemical reactions so wonderfully and perfectly reversible? Why? For the same reason that we are “fearfully and wonderfully made”. For that reason. These Profound Fortuitous Interdependencies did not just fall into place with Megaluck over Megatime, as some scientists posit, with their fingers crossed.

*Ecclesiastes 2:13 Then I saw that wisdom excelleth folly, as far as light excelleth darkness.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.*

Can you name even one aspect of our universe that is known “from the beginning to the end”? Research continues everywhere, with absolutely no end remotely in sight. Research at the subatomic level, at the molecular level, at the cellular level, at the human level, at the planetary level, and at the galactic level.

How is it that we don’t know everything about anything, if all that we see came about from nothing, as materialists contend? How is that possible? Infinite complexity from nothing is infinitely absurd and infinitely improbable. There is not the slightest scientific basis or law for their grand proposal. Profound organization and information and consistency and physical laws, originating…. HOW ! An infinite God makes spiritual sense. He is utterly beyond the purview of science - which is merely another of God’s brilliant creations. As to the mocking question of “Who made God,” Professor John Lennox of Cambridge University gives us the answer: “If anybody made God, then He wouldn’t be God, would He!” (See Lennox’ one hour lecture, “A Matter of Gravity” on YouTube.)

Two things are incomprehensible. First, the origin of everything from nothing, and second, God Himself, Who so wondrously explains and accounts for everything else. Everyone must choose his own incomprehensible option. The first is random and meaningless, literally and figuratively. The second option is elegant, beautiful, hopeful, and wonderful beyond understanding. This second option matches the creative genius that surrounds us.


*Ecclesiastes 7:9 Anger rests in the bosom of fools.*

Atheists are exceedingly angry and bitter.

*Philipians 4:8 ...whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.*


Psychological professionals in the 21st Century have affirmed the substantial benefits, both mental and physical, of positive thinking in countless scholarly experiments, published papers and books.

*Proverbs 3:13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.*

Twenty-first century social science confirms that Christians are happier than atheists. When confronted with this scientific truth, atheists angrily and snidely reply, “Ignorance is bliss.” It’s a lie, and lies are all they have. To contend otherwise is to claim that wisdom decreases your happiness. Why then do we strive for, and achieve wisdom?

*Proverbs 3:21 My son, let them not depart from your eyes. Keep sound wisdom and discretion;

Proverbs 16:16 How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! And to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver.*

Again and again there are Biblical references to wisdom, prudence, diligence, and other virtues. The essence of science is the pursuit of truth, knowledge, and facts. However, wisdom requires more than mere knowledge. Wisdom requires the integration of scientific truths with integrity, and far more virtuous conduct than the mere accretion of facts, which are value neutral.

Hitler and Stalin appreciated the science of Darwinism for its atheistic implications, but of wisdom, they had none.

* 
Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.*


Can you name even one aspect of our universe that is known “from the beginning to the end”? Research continues everywhere, with absolutely no end remotely in sight. Research at the molecular level, at the cellular level, at the human level, at the planetary level, and at the galactic level. How is it that we don’t know everything about anything, if all that we see came about from nothing, as secularists contend? How is that possible? Infinite complexity from nothing is infinitely absurd and infinitely improbable. There is not the slightest scientific basis or law for their grand proposal. Profound organization and information and consistency and physical laws, originating…. HOW ! An infinite God is utterly beyond the purview of science - which itself is another of God’s brilliant creations. As to the mocking question of “Who made God,” Professor John Lennox of Cambridge University gives us the answer: “If anybody made God, then He wouldn’t be God, would He!” (See Lennox’ one hour lecture, “A Matter of Gravity” on YouTube.)

Two things are incomprehensible. First, the origin of everything from nothing, and second, God Himself, Who so wondrously explains and accounts for everything else. Everyone must choose his own incomprehensible option. The first is random and meaningless, literally and figuratively. The second option is elegant, beautiful, hopeful, and wonderful beyond understanding. This second option matches the creative genius that surrounds us.

* 
Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.*

Wisdom excelleth folly as far as light excelleth darkness. The Creator of mankind does not want anyone to be fooled; He does not wish that we be gullible, or duped by clever sounding words, whether they be from scientists wearing white robes, or priests wearing white robes. It is the essence of science to search for truth, and ask questions, and seek to answer them. Toward this end, we must acknowledge the extremely transitional nature of scientific “fact”, and the pretexts of contemporary scientific infallibility. Nowhere is the attempt to deceive us more malicious and destructive than when it seeks to deny the very existence of our Creator, and separate us from Him – permanently.

Forty percent of those listed in Who’s Who In Science acknowledge a personal belief in God. You must ask yourself why. Surely these people are not the fools that some scientific atheists accuse you and me of being.

*John 3:11, 12 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?*

The timeless veracity and wisdom of this statement is prophetic. After over two thousand years, what is often called the “myth” that is the Holy Bible, cannot remotely be discredited. To the contrary, the obvious and manifest benefits to mankind of Christianity have been repeatedly addressed by professionals in psychology, criminology, and other modern disciplines. The deep and abiding science, beginning with the first sentence in the first Book, is compelling testimony. For these reasons and more, Christianity is today the most popular human organization there has ever been. Yet many still “receive not our witness.” How can this be? Why will mankind not learn?



* I Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast that which is good.*

Is there a more concise explanation of the scientific method? “Test all things”? The essence of modern science is the proof of testable hypotheses, as scientists like to say. Such technique was proposed in the Scriptures which are mocked by so many who are proud of their lack of belief.

*Hebrews 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.*

This is confirmation of Genesis 1:1. Natural Theology, written in 1809 by William Paley, makes a similar argument from design. Just as a Boeing 747 can never be the product of an explosion in a junkyard, neither can the far more intricate construction of a human being be the ultimate product of random mutations, selectively but blindly “chosen.” See also www.2001Principle.net


*Mark 14:7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.*


Although not strictly “scientific”, the foregoing verse demonstrates a profound economic truth notwithstanding the astonishing achievements of modern science. Had one the vision to see forward more than 2000 years to witness the abundance of food and material goods we now produce, surely one would have surmised that “the poor” would be no more than a relic of the ancient past. Not so. In fact, nowhere are “the poor” more common and more destitute than in socialist countries led by atheist despots.


*Acts 17:26 (God) hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.*


Notwithstanding the vast differences in outward appearance of the peoples of the earth, from fair skinned Norwegians, to African pygmies, “all nations of men” are Homo sapiens. All humans can, within the constraints of blood typing, be transfused by the blood from men of “all nations.” This close biological relationship of mankind was cited before blood types and biological classifications were ever imagined. Moreover, Charles Darwin repeatedly expressed his disdain for what he considered to be the “lower forms of life,” the Africans. This vile racist, who was an admittedly mediocre student in school, originated the hypothesis, not even a theory, of common descent, now called “evolution” or “Darwinian evolution.” From a letter to Asa Gray, a close friend and Professor of Biology at Harvard University:

"I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science."

*John 18:37 Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?*

Eighty-two percent of Americans believe that Jesus Christ was God, according to a survey taken by Princeton Survey Research Associates on Dec 2 and 3, 2004 for Newsweek Magazine. Jesus Christ said that people of the truth hear his voice. Today one especially hears atheists, most of them liberals, reply just as Pontius Pilate did two thousand years ago with a mockingly dishonest question: “What is truth?” when even a ten year old has the capacity to know what truth is. Some things never change.

*Luke 21:33; Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.*

Just as Genesis 1:1 foretold the scientific truth of the Big Bang, or as it is almost universally called today, “The Moment of Creation”, so too does the Gospel of Luke describe the passing away of matter. Stars like our own sun are consuming their own hydrogen, fusing it into helium, losing vast amounts of mass, and radiating that energy into the heavens. All starlight will eventually pass away, and the universe will ultimately become dark and absolutely cold (“heat death”), devoid of life as we know it. Numerous massive black holes have been indirectly observed. They attract matter and light into their domain, never to be seen again. Or so scientists thought before they once again changed their mind. It is now posited that Black Holes can radiate away energy, which is to say, mass. Even Black Holes seem to pass away.


The duration of primary elements of matter we call protons have a lifetime estimated to be 10 to the 33rd power years. The heaven and the earth shall pass into cold, dark oblivion, just as stated in the Holy Bible, a book ceaselessly mocked and ridiculed by the left. Thousands of years after the Bible said heaven and earth shall pass away, the Second Law of Thermodynamics simply repeated it, in the name of “science.” Universal heat death is the ultimate and final increase in entropy, or disorder. The origin of our universe as well as its demise were both described in an ancient book with astonishing precision. The universe has not always existed, as previously thought by scientists, nor was it assembled piecemeal. It was “created” with a Big Bang. The universe will not continue on forever; it will, it must pass away. These were not lucky guesses. They were inspirations from our Creator who made science.






Footnote 1: By “the insuperable statistics of abiogenesis, I mean the utter impossibility of any naturalistic explanation for synthesizing even a single polypeptide, much less the enormous variety of proteins, enzymes, and related structures which constitute every living cell. Our polypeptides, as they are called, are so profoundly complex that even with a blueprint, contemporary scientists cannot produce them in a laboratory from reagents. How much more hopeless it would be to expect a pool of dirty water to produce hundreds proteins necessary for the first living cell.


Footnote 2: By “insuperable statistics of the Anthropic Principle, I refer to the several dozen physical constants, such as the gravitational constant, the strong nuclear force, and the fine structure constant, which are so finely tuned that if they were as little as one part in 1040th larger or smaller, there would be no planet earth and no human beings. The gravitational constant in particular is precise within one part in 10 to the 10120th. What has been so desperately offered as an explanation for the Anthropic Principle is the preposterous fantasy of “Multiverse,” an infinite number of universes, of which we live in “just the right one.” It is not remotely connected to science or reality.



* Profound Fortuitous Interdependencies, a term I originated, refers to the interrelated factors surrounding us that are utterly essential to life as civilized people know and enjoy. There is a pervasive elegance throughout our world and indeed our universe which far transcends the atheistic nihilism so popular today in what they call "intellectual" circles.

First example of Profound Fortuitous Interdependencies: Oxygen happens to be one of the more reactive elements, and it exists in the most reactive phase, viz. gas. This dynamic equilibrium producing our essential breath of life is possible only because: 1. Reactions are reversible (how profoundly fortuitous!) and; 2. The reversibility of such reactions is, so far as we can tell, 100% and; 3. Natural laws are consistent and harmonious and discoverable, and; 4. Plants recycle oxygen from carbon dioxide, and water.

Second example of PFIs: The sophisticated engineering of matter, constructed primarily out of three simple building blocks, electrons, protons, and neutrons, is evidenced by the fact that only one part in 1017 is matter, and the rest is empty space. Moreover these three foundational components can be combined with only slight variations to give us unique characteristics as found in metals, including high shear strength, malleability, ductility, high heat and electrical conductivity, profound availability, high melting points, and other features without which there could be no airplanes, cars, or even internal combustion engines. As essential as metals** are to internal combustion engines, they would be virtually worthless without hydrocarbons to burn in them, which hydrocarbons just happen to be available in wondrous, underground storage tanks, to be refined and used worldwide.

But without oxygen, and without its dispersal throughout our atmosphere, there could be no cars, no plane rides to faraway places, and no fires, even inside engines. Fire, a simple chemical reaction we have always taken for granted, is but one of the countless Profound Fortuitous Interdependencies.

** In contrast to water, plastic, glass, and fused quartz, which transmit light with near perfection, unlike metals.

Third example of PFIs: Vision, made possible only through the combined PFIs of the elegant properties of electromagnetic radiation in the visible portion of that spectrum, including the capacity to transmit both energy as well as information, over unimaginable distances, with almost perfect fidelity and reliability, and to be magically bent by a wide variety of readily available transparent materials, so as to enable wide-angle vision instead of 1:1 tunnel vision of an image roughly the same size as the receiving retina, and all the while photons pass through photons in every direction and in every wavelength, utterly unaffected in the slightest.



Additional reading: Science and the Bible


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

So, per the desperate religious nutters, scientists can only earn paychecks by fudging their data to confirm things we already think we know. 

I guess the discovery stork brings us new discoveries. 

Idiots.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> So, per the desperate religious nutters, scientists can only earn paychecks by fudging their data to confirm things we already think we know.
> 
> I guess the discovery stork brings us new discoveries.
> 
> Idiots.


I am still waiting for a link to the renowned scientist that claims the evolution of man is proven.


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## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > His statement was absolutely true
> ...



You are SO naive. And you show how utterly biased and closedminded you are, in every single post.  You'll never learn new things, grow or change with a mindset like that.   It's also very telling that you cut off my post after the first sentence.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I am still waiting for a link to the renowned scientist that claims the evolution of man is proven.


I know you are. But the consensus is that all animals, including humans, evolved. And that evolution is a fact. And the consensus is overwhelming. I don't care whether you agree. I only correct the idiotic shit you say, to show that your arguments are all bullshit, because you are very dishonest. The reason you deny it is your silly iron aged myth. Any other reason you give is a shameless lie.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> You are SO naive.


Right. I know that, when i want to know how the global scientific community operates, i run right to the first idiotic religious nutter denier i can find.

According to you, all the scientists are fudging their data to affirm preconceptions. And you think you dont sound like a moron?


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## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Their conclusions ensure their paychecks.
> ...


You just failed your Free Market Capitalism course.
You're an idiot if you believe scientists don't work for a boss.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


Haha...i am not the idiot that thinks scientists are incompetent liars. Oh...but only when their conclusions don't align with your childish magical fetishes or your politics. To be clear.


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## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> According to you, all the scientists are fudging their data to affirm preconceptions. And you think you dont sound like a moron?



Never said that.  You and Hollie have a habit of subtle dishonesty, I've noticed.


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## Quasar44 (Aug 19, 2020)

Humans are blind luck 
If not for that massive comet 65 million yrs ago


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## Quasar44 (Aug 19, 2020)

Flash said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


My Jewish bible even has quantum physics and Newton and Einstein


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Never said that.


Of course you did, liar. You said they were choosing their conclusions to get their paychecks, instead of by where the evidence takes them. This is precisely what you are saying, liar.


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## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


How many do you know?
Engineers, for instance, who have to actually build something, are spot on.
Scientists who work for Think Tanks produce whats demanded of them.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > I am still waiting for a link to the renowned scientist that claims the evolution of man is proven.
> ...


LOL yet NO ONE that is an actual scientist has ever said it is fact nor that it is proven. In fact they all admit there are numerous holes in the theory including no clear line of evolution. You make statements that simply are not true, Science has NEVER worked on census. It goes against the very nature of the scientific method.


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## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > The Book of Genesis is a discussion on the relationship between Man and God.  There is no science in it.  If someone wants to assign science to it then that is fine but has no real basis in the text.
> ...



Wow ... nice cherry picking ... did you do that yourself or did you forget to cite the source? ...


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## ReinyDays (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> LOL yet NO ONE that is an actual scientist has ever said it is fact nor that it is proven. In fact they all admit there are numerous holes in the theory including no clear line of evolution. You make statements that simply are not true, Science has NEVER worked on census. It goes against the very nature of the scientific method.



Another thing that goes against the very nature of scientific method is stating something is wrong without saying what is right ... what alternate theory do you propose to replace evolution ... and something better than "DemoNazis" I hope ...


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> How many do you know?


Irrelevant. Again, this isn't religion. Wrong section.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> LOL yet NO ONE that is an actual scientist has ever said it is fact nor that it is proven.


Wrong. Scientists do indeed consider evolution a fact, in general. And whether they do or not has no bearing on whether or not it is true. So go pester someone else with your dusty old creationist garbage.
 Maybe a child.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > LOL yet NO ONE that is an actual scientist has ever said it is fact nor that it is proven. In fact they all admit there are numerous holes in the theory including no clear line of evolution. You make statements that simply are not true, Science has NEVER worked on census. It goes against the very nature of the scientific method.
> ...


I don't dispute evolution with in a species. never have. You would know that if you ever read any of my threads and were not trying to support someone you disagree with but because he also believes something you do you run interference for him. There is no conclusive evidence proof or what ever word you want to provide that shows any Mammal species has EVER evolved into two or more distinctly different species. And the theory of evolution can not provide that evidence or proof. All you have are similar species that may or may not have interbred and that separately evolved. God made every living thing.


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > LOL yet NO ONE that is an actual scientist has ever said it is fact nor that it is proven.
> ...


Quote one then.


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## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > How many do you know?
> ...


Relevant, loser.
Scientists submit papers all the time and their bosses throw back the paper and tell the scientists to change one or more factors until the boss gets the result the boss wants.


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## LittleNipper (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > How many do you know?
> ...


Nothing is irrelavant, the question simply begs an answer.


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## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

LittleNipper said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


If you disagree with FFI, you're an idiot!


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 19, 2020)

LittleNipper said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...


It is to close minded science worshipers. This guy routinely claims things he can not back up. All claimed because science says so, yet he can not quote a single scientist that says it and he claims science is run by consensus.


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## Flash (Aug 19, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > By intelligent design.  If the gravity constant was a tad more the universe would not have come together like it is.  The same with a tad less.  God put the right formula together, didn't He?
> ...




If the pull of gravity was a little more or a little less we never would have had the galaxies, star forming nebulae and solar systems form the way they did.  Hell, the Big Bang (if it happen) would not have had the same dispersion.  No telling how fucked up this universe would be.  God did good.


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## ChemEngineer (Aug 19, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Indeependent said:
> ...



Haha:  
*“The sun appears to be nothing else than a very eminent, large, and lucid planet…. Its similarity to the other globes of the solar system, with regard to its solidity, its atmosphere, and its diversified surface; the rotation upon its axis,and the fall of heavy bodies leads us on to suppose that it is most probably inhabited, like the rest of the planets, by beings whose organs are adapted to the peculiar circumstances of that vast globe.” – William Herschel (1738-1822) , discoverer of the planet Uranus, eminent observer and builder of telescopes

"Rail travel at high speed is not possible, because passengers, unable to breathe, would die of asphyxia."- Dr Dionysys Larder (1793-1859), professor of Natural Philosophy and Astronomy, University College London.

"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction." -- Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872 

"The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon," -- Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria 1873

“The evidence for the existence of the luminiferous ether has accumulated as additional phenomena of light and other radiations have been discovered; and the properties of this medium, as deduced from the phenomena of light, have been found to be precisely those required to explain electromagnetic phenomena.” - James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879)

"X-rays will prove to be a hoax." - Lord Kelvin, President of the Royal Society, 1883


"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible," -- Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.

"Radio has no future." - Lord Kelvin, Scottish mathematician and physicist, former president of the Royal Society, 1897

"There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will."- Albert Einstein, 1932. 

"The energy produced by the breaking down of the atom is a very poor kind of thing. Anyone who expects a source of power from the transformation of these atoms is talking moonshine." - Ernest Rutherford, shortly after splitting the atom for the first time. 

"Very interesting Whittle, my boy, but it will never work."- Cambridge Aeronautics Professor, when shown Frank Whittle's plan for the jet engine. 

"Space travel is utter bilge." - Richard Van Der Riet Woolley, upon assuming the post of Astronomer Royal in 1956. 

"Space travel is bunk." - Sir Harold Spencer Jones, Astronomer Royal of the UK, 1957 (two weeks later Sputnik orbited the Earth).

"Transmission of documents via telephone wires is possible in principle, but the apparatus required is so expensive that it will never become a practical proposition."- Dennis Gabor, British physicist and author of Inventing the Future, 1962. 

Haha

"The super computer is technologically impossible. It would take all of the water that flows over Niagara Falls to cool the heat generated by the number of vacuum tubes required." -- professor of electrical engineering, New York University *


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## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Never said that.
> ...



Nope, don't put words in my mouth, you snake. I said science CAN be corrupted. Which you totally ignored. That's not the same thing as saying "all scientists are fudging their data."   It also probably never occurred to you that a scientist can hold a particular position, and be wrong but still sincere in their belief.


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## Indeependent (Aug 19, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Never said that.
> ...


Usually it's the person or foundation that's funding them that keeps changing the factors until the results are met.
Scientists are usually too gullible to get that they're being used.


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## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


The “dumb luck” slogan was yours. If you can’t define the terms you use, you should avoid them.


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## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > The Book of Genesis is a discussion on the relationship between Man and God.  There is no science in it.  If someone wants to assign science to it then that is fine but has no real basis in the text.
> ...


So, as usual, the “Bible is a science text”, groupies cut and paste entire portions of fundie websites in failed attempts to “prove” really nonsensical claims.


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## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...



“God made every living thing.”

Hallelujah down the street and praise the gawds for the cancer cell.


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## Hollie (Aug 19, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



“haha”.

Those 17th century fools. If only they read their science text called the “Bible”, they would have had the answer to every science related question.

“Haha”.


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## buttercup (Aug 19, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Hallelujah down the street and praise the gawds for the cancer cell.



I guess you've never heard that this is a fallen world.  Which means that the way things are NOW (disease, etc) is not the way it was in the beginning, when everything was first CREATED.   

But I'm probably giving you too much credit by assuming that was sincere ignorance. I think even you must have known that, but obviously you just want to mock theism.

PS:  There's only one God.  I think you've been told that about 1000 times by various people.


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## Flash (Aug 20, 2020)

Hollie said:


> ChemEngineer said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...




The most nonsensical claim I have ever heard is that the secular claim that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.  "Poof! There it is!


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## Hollie (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > Hallelujah down the street and praise the gawds for the cancer cell.
> ...


As I am not a “Bielieber’’ in fallen worlds replete with angry gods, satans, angels and such myths, I’m left to accept reality as an all encompassing natural environment.

It's a quaint notion that 6,000 years ago there was some lush, magical paradise where everything was perfect, Youtube was commercial free and the gods weren't angry and vindictive but I have a need to live in a reality-based worldview.

PS: thousands of gods were claimed to have existed before the invention of your gods. Why are your various gods ''real'' and any of the various Greek gods are not?


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## Hollie (Aug 20, 2020)

Flash said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > ChemEngineer said:
> ...



On the other hand, _The most nonsensical claim I have ever heard is that the secular _*religious*_ claim that the universe _*gods*_ magically created itself  _*themselves*_ out of nothing.  "Poof! There it is!_


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## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

Hollie said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


I haven't heard anyone make that claim.  Except you of course.


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## Indeependent (Aug 20, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Perhaps you can provide a Link to where you have attained your knowledge of history.


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## ReinyDays (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Wrong. Scientists do indeed consider evolution a fact, in general. And whether they do or not has no bearing on whether or not it is true. So go pester someone else with your dusty old creationist garbage.
> Maybe a child.



Just to follow up on this ... and hopefully correct some misunderstandings about what Evolution is and is not ...

Evolution isn't a devotional principle ... far from it ... it's a framework to help facilitate communication between biologists ... the vast majority of research in biology has little to do with the principles given in evolution ... we're studying enzyme formation in Black Vultures and comparing it Red-tailed Hawks ... noting similarities and differences using their evolutionary relationship ... so other biologists will understand what we're saying ... it's not a yes, it's not a no, it's just what we agree on ...

The Bible does not offer any useful framework for this task ... except some vague idea of "reptiles, fish and creepy crawly things" ... not much help splitting hares into orthographic varieties ... the only framework given within the text of the Bible is based on what humans can eat and not eat ... all flowering plants are grouped into one category: "clean" ... does this help the landscaper when the customer says "I only want clean plants and make it look nice" ... anything more specific and you're immediately using the evolutionary framework ... is that unholy? ...

Quick question of the Bible-thumpers here ... Swine is "unclean" ... pork, bacon, ham ... all abominations before the Lord ... 1) Do you refuse it at all times and in all places as the Bible commands? ... 2) Do you refuse it at your own table, but allow it at your neighbor's table as to not offend? ... 3) Chow down every chance you get, Christ came to do away with The Law, we're not bound by anything in the Old Testament? ... (My answer is #2, I don't bring swine into my home, but if I'm starving to death out in the desert, I'm gonna eat rattlesnakes ... it's a matter of priorities) ...

Also ... consider the Latin Alphabet we're using here ... the Bible was written long before these letters we're using here were invented ... how can we expect to communicate Godly principles using a heathen language? ... do we not sin by posting KJV text? ... I say no, we agree to use the Latin Alphabet together, so we can communicate our ideas here ... does this mean we worship the Latin Alphabet, hell no, it wasn't even created by God, Man created it and it is fully contaminated by the Spirit of Satan ... as are all human creations ...

Sounds silly to demand we stop using this alphabet, just as silly as you demanding we stop using evolution ... the difference of course is we can offer the Aramaic Alphabet, the one God had the Bible written in the first place ... your alternative to evolution is? ... we'll wait ...


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## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong. Scientists do indeed consider evolution a fact, in general. And whether they do or not has no bearing on whether or not it is true. So go pester someone else with your dusty old creationist garbage.
> ...


So no shellfish, lobsters, oysters, shrimp and clams either?  

Oy Vey!


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## ReinyDays (Aug 20, 2020)

ding said:


> So no shellfish, lobsters, oysters, shrimp and clams either?
> 
> Oy Vey!



Mushrooms, apples, almonds, _B.t._ corn ... nearly impossible to find foods in the local grocery store that are clean before The Lord ... closest we can get are foods labeled "kosher", and that's just one man's opinion what is clean and unclean ...

Fox fur, cotton/rayon blends, alligator leather ... all abominations to use as clothing ... the Bible says so ... 

Share your home with a dog or cat ... that's a sin ... unclean animals are unclean to even touch ... 

Captivity and death are the judgements for the slightest violation of the First Covenant ... The Law is perfect, it is Man who fails ...


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## ChemEngineer (Aug 20, 2020)

ding said:


> Hollie wrote in her usual, reprehensible, dishonest and ignorant style:
> 
> *So, as usual, the “Bible is a science text”, groupies cut and paste entire portions of fundie websites in failed attempts to “prove” really nonsensical claims.*
> 
> ...



Science of the Bible is not a "fundie website."  It is my sole creation, based on science.   It's NOT a "cut and paste" because I WROTE IT.  If there were anything nonsensical about it, you would have cited such "nonsense" and refuted it with science, with common sense, with references.  *But you did not because you cannot. * Your ignorance precludes any sensible response. The best you can do is fling your poo, which is why I put you on ignore long ago.
I beg others to ignore poo slinging spammers like Hollie, but they choose not to. And so.....


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## ReinyDays (Aug 20, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> I beg others to ignore poo slinging spammers like Hollie, but they choose not to. And so.....



Jesus begged God to forgive those who were nailing Him to the cross ... 

Is your own sin so great you cannot forgive yourself? ... you monger war with Hollie, and so denounce our Savior ... you lash out poison and Satanic filth ... and set stumbling blocks to trip and deceive those who are seeking salvation through Christ ... eye for an eye but you're already blind ...


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## Hollie (Aug 20, 2020)

ChemEngineer said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie wrote in her usual, reprehensible, dishonest and ignorant style:
> ...



I can see you’re angry and emotive but “fling your poo” is not very Christian of you.

Rather than begging, you could have made an attempt to respond to my earlier refutations of your claims to magic and supernaturalism. But alas, you chose to retreat to a safe zone where your tender sensibilities wouldn’t be offended.


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## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > So no shellfish, lobsters, oysters, shrimp and clams either?
> ...


I bet it was a real bitch establishing standards that were heads and shoulders above that of their neighbors.

As with most things context is important.  

Soooooo..... no shellfish, lobsters, oysters, shrimp or clams?


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## ReinyDays (Aug 20, 2020)

ding said:


> Soooooo..... no shellfish, lobsters, oysters, shrimp or clams?



My apologies ... I didn't see that as a question ... I believe so, if memory will serve here, only fish with scales are clean ... no shellfish, aquatic cockroaches ... I've heard arguments both ways with shrimp ... and this does include catfish and related skin-fish ... abominations before The Lord ...

Marijuana is an herb bearing seed ... clean for all it's variety of uses ... to say otherwise profanes The Lord ... I know it can be used for evil, but also we could kill a man with a goat ... doesn't make goats unclean to eat ...

ETA: *I bet it was a real bitch establishing standards that were heads and shoulders above that of their neighbors.*

HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW ...

*As with most things context is important.*

This was during the *40 years* that the Hebrews needed to cross the Sinai ... Lawrence of Arabia covered the same ground in a week ...


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## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Another thing that goes against the very nature of scientific method is stating something is wrong without saying what is right ...


Be still my beating heart...

I'm afraid that is asking too much.


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## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Soooooo..... no shellfish, lobsters, oysters, shrimp or clams?
> ...


Sorry for not being more clear... you implied in another post that you don't eat pork.  So I was asking you if you didn't eat shellfish, lobsters, oysters, shrimp or clams too NOT if that is what the Bible stated.


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## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> ETA: *I bet it was a real bitch establishing standards that were heads and shoulders above that of their neighbors.*
> 
> HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW ...
> 
> ...


I didn't realize they waited until the time of Moses to establish standards.  I figured that was just when they started recording them in writing.  Silly me.

Can you imagine how upset they must have been when they all of sudden had to stop munching on baby back ribs and lobsters?

But seriously, you don't believe the Jews raised standards?  Really?






						Constitutional Rights Foundation
					

CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS FOUNDATION Bill of Right in Action Fall 2000 (16:4)  Innovations in Law BRIA 16:4 Home | The Hebrews and the Foundations of Democracy | The Declaration of Independence and Natural Rights | Animal Rights   , The Ten Commandments and many other elements of Hebrew law provided...




					www.crf-usa.org
				






			https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/8889478/dsilber.pdf?sequence=1
		




			https://www.tanqueverdeschools.org/downloads/trads36to47.pdf


----------



## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Lawrence of Arabia covered the same ground in a week ...


Lawrence of Arabia didn't piss off God.


----------



## jackflash (Aug 20, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Origin of Life Theory Called Into Question by Volcanic Rock Study
> 
> 
> Animals may have emerged under very different conditions.
> ...


----------



## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Hollie said:


> As I am not a “Bielieber’’ in fallen worlds



No plural, just this one. And fallen basically means corrupted.  So you believe that this world is not corrupted?  Interesting. Apparently you live on a different planet.



> replete with angry gods, satans, angels and such myths, I’m left to accept reality as an all encompassing natural environment.
> 
> It's a quaint notion that 6,000 years ago there was some lush, magical paradise where everything was perfect, Youtube was commercial free and the gods weren't angry and vindictive but I have a need to live in a reality-based worldview.




Ah yes, we know, we know.  You're soooo smart, much too smart to believe in anything but the physical world! No need to keep reminding everyone, with your pompous, condescending, bigoted posts.



> Why are your various gods ''real'' and any of the various Greek gods are not?



I don't have "various gods."  There's only one God.  To answer your question, it's not rocket science to seek truth.  It's not that hard to examine various belief systems to see which one is compelling and which one is backed up by numerous different types of evidence.  Here's a secret: People who genuinely, sincerely value truth and seek the truth, no matter where it leads, will most likely find it.  Seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Obviously you won't believe what I'm about to say, but God is the one who opens our eyes on an individual basis, when the time is right.  It happens all the time.  But it will most likely not happen to someone who is prideful, hateful and closed-minded, which unfortunately describes most atheists.  So if you were sincere in your question above about how we know which God is true, my advice to you is to drop the pride.  As the scripture says, “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”


----------



## Hollie (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > As I am not a “Bielieber’’ in fallen worlds
> ...



I can understand that one’s socio-cultural environment would cause them to believe in a triune version (3) gods but to dismiss all the other gods is socio-cultural arrogance.

While you may feel that you are corrupt and evil and carry some notion of original sin, that’s a Christian based precept so I don’t feel a need or desire to carry that baggage. My opinion is that such a belief can be the cause of a maladjusted personality.  A large portion of the planet doesn’t share the self-hate that afflicts those burdened by the Christian presumption of carrying the sins of two mythical humans and believing themselves to be base and corrupt. Humans are a mixture of selfishness and cooperation. That’s the price we pay for human emotions.

If religions were the arbiters of truth and actually did present “numerous different types of evidence”, there would be no requirement for “faith”.
claim.

"Faith" It is not necessary requirement for science. I have no "faith" in the naturalistic explanations for life on the planet. Natural explanations are all we have evidence of. I have no "faith" in gravity as faith is not needed. I have no need for "faith" to understand the speed of light and to understand that we can use that knowledge to look far into the past. The natural world shows us that supernatural "designers" are not required for the complexity we see in nature.

I tend to agree: “People who genuinely, sincerely value truth and seek the truth, no matter where it leads, will most likely find it.” That’s one reason why I tend to be suspicious of people who claim to have the true, inerrant and absolute conviction that their gods are true to the exclusion of others who have the same convictions in their gods. Both parties invariably speak to the inerrancy of the gods associated with their respective socio-political / geographic place of birth.

So basically, if I want to know which gods are true, it depends overwhelming on the happenstance of my parentage and geographic place of birth.

As scripture says: “I’m laughin’ just to keep from cryin’


----------



## fncceo (Aug 20, 2020)

Flash said:


> The most nonsensical claim I have ever heard is that the secular claim that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.  "Poof! There it is!




That seems to be the general consensus, between those who accept the literal biblical explanation and those who do not.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> I don't dispute evolution with in a species. never have.


Yes you do. You just don't know it
 Species boundaries are fairly arbitrary. We use them for convenience. Such as "chrono species".


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> So you believe that this world is not corrupted?


In the way you do, whereby you don't think even newborn babies are innocent? No, that takes freakish religion to buy that.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > So you believe that this world is not corrupted?
> ...


The single-celled asexual organism that will evolve into a human baby is innocent...yet you crush them with every step you take.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 20, 2020)

fncceo said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > The most nonsensical claim I have ever heard is that the secular claim that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.  "Poof! There it is!
> ...


What's the literal interpretation?
To start off with, literal interpretation in which language?


----------



## Flash (Aug 20, 2020)

fncceo said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > The most nonsensical claim I have ever heard is that the secular claim that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.  "Poof! There it is!
> ...




To me as an Engineer I can't accept the idea that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.  While not an astrophysicist I have too much of an knowledge of the Laws of Physics to accept something as ridiculous as that.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 20, 2020)

Flash said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...


Most atheist scientists are banging their heads against the wall trying to figure that out.
The good thing is if any of their efforts leads to technological advancements.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> The single-celled asexual organism that will evolve into a human baby is innocent...yet you crush them with every step you take.


Indeed I do. That's because some people have figured out that the reasons for Valuing human life don't have to be dictated to them by a fake Sky daddy.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Most atheist scientists are banging their heads against the wall trying to figure that out.


No they aren't. They've already figured out ways that that is possible. The hard part is finding evidence for it


----------



## Flash (Aug 20, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > fncceo said:
> ...




True.  If we learn more we will know more.

In the meantime we don't have a clue how the universe came into existence and we only know of life on earth.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

Flash said:


> In the meantime we don't have a clue how the universe came into existence


The religious nutters claim to know.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > So you believe that this world is not corrupted?
> ...



No, that's not all what I was talking about, and it's not my assertion.  Both you and Hollie have this weird habit of hearing what you want to hear, and not what is actually said.  

Do I have to recap why the world "fallen" came up in the first place, and go through the string of conversation?  Because all one has to do is read the thread, to see how that came up in the first place, and what we were talking about.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> and it's not my assertion.


Liar. You believe there are no innocent babies. You believe the entire human race is corrupted. It's literally a basic tenet of your preferred iron aged myth. Stop accusing others of things of which you are, by far, more guilty.


----------



## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > The truth might have been nice. Why did the gods not care about the errors and omissions? Why did the gods allow largely unknown writers to set down accounts tens of years after the actual events?
> ...


Or maybe the original meaning has been lost through time.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > and it's not my assertion.
> ...


You're projecting. Don't tell me what I believe, so arrogantly, as if you are omniscient and know what is inside my mind.  Then you have the audacity to call me a liar when I just finished telling you that the reason the word "fallen" came up in the conversation had nothing to do with what you are talking about. All one has to do is go back and read the string of conversation to see that.

You are not only dishonest, but hateful and bitter and nasty.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Don't tell me what I believe, so arrogantly, as if you are omniscient and know what is inside my mind.


Nobody has to look inside your mind. We don't need to ask the sheep what the iron aged handbook says.


----------



## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

fncceo said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > The most nonsensical claim I have ever heard is that the secular claim that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.  "Poof! There it is!
> ...


No.  The general consensus of those who are religious is that God created the universe out of nothing.  

The general consensus of science is that the universe was created out of nothing. 

Both are correct.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > The single-celled asexual organism that will evolve into a human baby is innocent...yet you crush them with every step you take.
> ...


Atheists, who support abortion and euthanasia, only value their own lives, no one else's.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Most atheist scientists are banging their heads against the wall trying to figure that out.
> ...


Oh yeah!
I forgot about all those "theories" they use to keep the funding coming.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Don't tell me what I believe, so arrogantly, as if you are omniscient and know what is inside my mind.
> ...



Which you clearly don't understand, not even in the slightest.

Now, quit changing the subject.   And since you are incapable of being civil, I'm going back to ignoring you, as much as possible.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > and it's not my assertion.
> ...


Be very SPECIFIC and name the Christian religion that condones and partakes in abortion.......


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

Indeependent said:


> Atheists, who support abortion and euthanasia, only value their own lives, no one else's.


Well that is stupid and wrong.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Which you clearly don't understand, not even in the slightest.


Of course o do. Its not complicated. You think every human, including newborn babies, is a corrupt sinner. And you got called out for it, so now you are going to tap dance for 10 pages without actually denying it. Same shit every time...but usually we find this embarrassing behavior in the religion section.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Atheists, who support abortion and euthanasia, only value their own lives, no one else's.
> ...


I asked you a question, you made a claim christians don't care about unborn or new born, be specific now and link to any christian group that supports abortion.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


Why? I didnt claim that, ya weirdo.


----------



## Indeependent (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> Indeependent said:
> 
> 
> > Atheists, who support abortion and euthanasia, only value their own lives, no one else's.
> ...


I am well aware that atheists are stupid and wrong.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


You are claiming because we believe the world is fallen we somehow don't care about life be specific now and support the claim.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> , you made a claim christians don't care about unborn or new born


No , liar, i did not.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> You are claiming because we believe the world is fallen we somehow don't care about life


No, liar, i am not.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 20, 2020)

ding said:


> Sorry for not being more clear... you implied in another post that you don't eat pork.  So I was asking you if you didn't eat shellfish, lobsters, oysters, shrimp or clams too NOT if that is what the Bible stated.



I didn't say I didn't eat pork ... I said I don't routinely bring it into my home to fed it to myself ... if I go to a friend's house and he lays on me some BBQ pork chops ... I'm going to eat them ... as a matter of politeness ... on the other hand, I don't even bother avoiding _B.t._ corn ... my time is better used helping elderly crippled widow woman and her 14 orphan children keep the roof from leaking so much this winter ... 

She feeds me donuts ...

My salvation is through the Second Covenant ... and Christ's one Law "love your brother as you love yourself" ... and it's the loving thing to do to tell you Mexican food is the healthiest of all if you put healthy thing inside them burritos ... enough jalapeños and you can cure SARS ... try it, it's delicious ... and clean before Our Lord ... woot ...


----------



## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Which you clearly don't understand, not even in the slightest.
> ...



Humans have a sin nature, but babies are innocent because they don't know any better. That is why when babies die, they go straight to heaven.  If we were to go by your twisted and dishonest portrayal, babies would be held accountable for their actions, but they are not.    

I find it very interesting that you and Hollie seem to have a real problem with the whole concept of sin.   But actually not surprising at all.  Your mindset, your attitude, the way you interact with people (namely believers) just corroborates what the bible says about hard-hearted, prideful unbelievers like you.  You're a textbook atheist.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> My salvation is through the Second Covenant


So, your get out of jail free card, basically.


----------



## Flash (Aug 20, 2020)

ding said:


> fncceo said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...




The concept of God is the concept of intelligent design.  In other words a greater power in this universe that transcends anything we humans can comprehend. 

By the way.  I have "created" a lot of things in my life being an Engineer.  None of it was ever out of nothing.  The Laws of Physics says that can't happen.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Humans have a sin nature, but babies are innocent because they don't know any better.


Babies are not corrupted by original sin? Wow..you have literally billions of people to go correct...better get started....


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

Flash said:


> The Laws of Physics says that can't happen.


The laws of physics also allow for something to appear to have come from nothing, as we may not be able to observe the negative energy that balances out this "something".


----------



## Flash (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...




Because The Lord gave us Free Will we are by nature sinful.  As Cain found out we can't help ourselves.

Thank God for Grace.  It is Him taking responsibility for creating us sinful by nature.  We can't fix ourselves.  We need His help.  We have a way out.  Have Faith and accept the Grace.  Unfortunately too many people don't understand what that is all about.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

Flash said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


What a completely immoral concept.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Flash said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



Actually, God did not create us "sinful by nature."  In the very beginning, we were basically clean slates. But yes, God created us with free will, and unfortunately humankind has used that free will in the wrong way ever since.   Hence the sin nature, but it wasn't that way from the start.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


What a bunch of childish nonsense.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > , you made a claim christians don't care about unborn or new born
> ...


Then why post about a fallen world? You do know that christian believe in LOVE the sinner hate the sin right? Everyone is a sinner but everyone is loved by God. Your attempt to pretend otherwise is flat out STUPID and shows you don't even know what you are babbling about.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Then why post about a fallen world?


I didnt bring it up. Go back and re read ffs.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Humans have a sin nature, but babies are innocent because they don't know any better.
> ...


They are still LOVED MORON your attempt at pretending other wise is stupid and ignorant. God Loves us all. And Christians teach to love the sinner, which if you were religious you would know. All it means is that everyone must be saved by accepting Jesus and God. Free will, one must CHOSE to follow God no one is forced to.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Then why post about a fallen world?
> ...


No YOU attempted to use it as attack against Christians and you failed miserably.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> They are still LOVED


Well sure. Everyone loves people who are not perfect, ya dummy. One doesn't need a childish, iron aged myth for that.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Flash said:
> ...



On the contrary, what is childish to the nth degree is angrily waving your fist at God (the God you don't believe in) and acting as if you've never done anything wrong.... in the same way as a child having a meltdown against mommy and daddy because the child doesn't want to admit he did anything wrong.  lol.    That's an angry atheist in a nutshell.


----------



## Monk-Eye (Aug 20, 2020)

*" Some Dot Com Confused Author Hot Pocket "

* Poorly Educated Scientists Thread **

On the 19th page and has none studied scientific data that cyanobacteria evolved first which eventually facilitated organisms that generated oxygen ?









						Cyanobacteria - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



_Cyanobacteria only respire during the night (or in the dark) because the facilities used for electron transport are used in reverse for photosynthesis while in the light.[42]

Within this evolutionary context, it is noteworthy that, as far as we can tell, oxygenic photosynthesis only evolved once (in prokaryotic cyanobacteria), and all photosynthetic eukaryotes (including all plants and algae) have acquired this ability from them. In other words, *all the oxygen that makes the atmosphere breathable for aerobic organisms originally comes from cyanobacteria or their later descendants.*__*[77]*_


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> On the contrary, what is childish to the nth degree is angrily waving your fist at God (the God you don't believe in) and acting as if you've never done anything wrong..


Haha...what? Who the fuck does that? I take responsibility for my mistakes. I don't lean on an iron aged myth to transfer moral responsibility for my actions to a fake zombie king.


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 20, 2020)

Flash said:


> To me as an Engineer I can't accept the idea that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.  While not an astrophysicist I have too much of an knowledge of the Laws of Physics to accept something as ridiculous as that.



No ... there's nothing about engineering that involves pair instability ... and that part of the early universe is quite well understood and can be demonstrated in the lab ... 

Before then, it appears many of the Newtonian Law of Physics completely break down ... we assume gravity and electromagnetism were merged into a coherent single force ... but that hasn't been demonstrated in a lab yet ... and we're not at the beginning of the universe yet ... much is completely unknown and we are left with only philosophical tales to tell about the beginning of the universe ...

Not magic ... but _strings_ ... ha ha ha ... it appears we _*can't*_ demonstrate this in a lab ... so strictly pseudo-science ... the idea of circular dimensions makes some intuitive sense, and we're active in working out the deductive sense of them ... perhaps then we can begin to design experiments to test the validity of these philosophies ... long story short, 4 of the 26 dimensions of the universe cross-circuited and sprung open with a bang ... a big bang ... we're observing these 4 dimensions unwind in all direction all at once creating what we perceive as the universe ... not deep, just mathematical ... and any further information is above my pay grade ...

Hope this helps ...


----------



## Flash (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...




The Book of Genesis talks about God going through a learning process to figure out  what He had created.  I mean He was shocked when he found out what Cain did to Abel and then He destroyed the whole world except for Noah and the family because of wickedness.

However, I think the Bible is just explaining the relationship between Man and God in terms Man would understand with those stories and He knew all along what He was doing.


----------



## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry for not being more clear... you implied in another post that you don't eat pork.  So I was asking you if you didn't eat shellfish, lobsters, oysters, shrimp or clams too NOT if that is what the Bible stated.
> ...


I was just checking.  It's almost always better to ask than to assume.


----------



## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > On the contrary, what is childish to the nth degree is angrily waving your fist at God (the God you don't believe in) and acting as if you've never done anything wrong..
> ...



It's good if you own up to your mistakes, but you clearly missed the point.  I would get into this more, but never mind, as it's a totally different topic, and also because you'll just reject what I have to say anyway.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...



I have no problem with the concept of sin. I simply don’t accept that I am base and evil because long ago, superstitious people believed that supernatural forces and angry gods were extant.

It seems you have a problem with others living their lives without the burden of the fears and superstitions that consume your daily existence.

I really do find it concerning that your beliefs generate such hate and loathing for non-believers.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Fort Fun Indiana said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


Anything based on magical myths? Yes, i will reject it as useless nonsense. Welcome to the science section. Enjoy your stay.


----------



## RetiredGySgt (Aug 20, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...


Christians do not hate or loath non believers.


----------



## Flash (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > To me as an Engineer I can't accept the idea that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.  While not an astrophysicist I have too much of an knowledge of the Laws of Physics to accept something as ridiculous as that.
> ...




It doesn't help.  I understand that quantum physics is a different animal but we have not yet discovered the Unified Field Theory that explains everything.

Maybe one of these days we will.  However, in the meantime we don't know how the universe was created and we don't know if life exist outside the earth.  Two biggies.

I suspect in time humans will cease to exist on earth and we will pass without ever having a scientific explanation for the creation of all that is.


----------



## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

Hollie said:


> I have no problem with the concept of sin.


Well you should, because it is childish and idiotic and deletes the concept of humanism. Beating your wife for the wrong reason (the right reasons make it fine)? Why that's a "sin"...against God. Not against your wife.  Against god.

Killing a slave for the wrong reason? Why, that is just so offensive...to god. 

Utterly immoral and should be nauseating to any rational human being.


----------



## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> Flash said:
> 
> 
> > To me as an Engineer I can't accept the idea that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.  While not an astrophysicist I have too much of an knowledge of the Laws of Physics to accept something as ridiculous as that.
> ...


There's an awful lot we do know about the creation of space and time and the only explanation that explains the observations is that the universe was created from nothing.  That energy and matter had a beginning.  Now before you start criticizing what I just wrote I need to ask you...  weren't you the one who said it goes against the very nature of the scientific method to state something is wrong without stating what is right?


----------



## Monk-Eye (Aug 20, 2020)

*" Rigorous Delineation Between Theism And Basic Naturalism "

* Can Not Not Be **


Flash said:


> To me as an Engineer I can't accept the idea that the universe magically created itself out of nothing.  While not an astrophysicist I have too much of an knowledge of the Laws of Physics to accept something as ridiculous as that.


Is an identity set both closed and complete , whether it is a single identity element or an infinite set of identity elements ?

Suppose a characteristics of an identity element , an infinitesimal , to be a quality of infinitude such as an infinite number , where by theory an infinite number does not have an end wherefore by double entendre and paradox , it would also not include beginning ; rather , it would simply be as is a conjecture forwarded by theists about gawd .









						Clopen set - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



Like FFI, you project a lot.  I don't hate atheists. What I dislike is how SOME (not all) atheists act in these types of discussions.   So I call it out.  But I don't hate anyone, not even people I'm supposed to hate, if I were to go by media indoctrination.  

As for the other things you said, yeah, you don't get it.  At all.  But that's not surprising, if you DID get it, you would be a believer.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 20, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


You haven’t read the thread you’re posting in?


----------



## ReinyDays (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> ... You think every human, including newborn babies, is a corrupt sinner ...



Newborn babies do crap on themselves ... that's a sin ... God commands us to poop 37 cubits (or so) from our homes ... that's the death penalty under the First Covenant ... do not all newborn babies eventually die? ... "All God's judgements are righteous and true" ... 

Jesus not only suffered the little children to come unto Him ... He also suffered all manner of sinful people to come unto Him ... we're to hate the sin, not the sinner ... try to understand that before you sling poop around ...


----------



## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Fort Fun Indiana said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Fort Fun Indiana said:
> ...



No, actually, it was more about philosophy.  But I wouldn't waste my time anyway, I try not to waste too much time talking to people who are not sincere and as closed-minded as it gets.


----------



## Hollie (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > buttercup said:
> ...


Ahh, I see. Absent thinking as you do, I don’t “get it.”

You’re right and everyone who doesn’t believe as you do is wrong.

Cults operate in much the same way.


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## ReinyDays (Aug 20, 2020)

ding said:


> I was just checking.  It's almost always better to ask than to assume.



Oh ... ... ... er ... ... ... ummmm ... ... ... then let me ask, do you have a truck up on cinder blocks in your front yard? ... I just assumed you were that type of guy ...


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## RetiredGySgt (Aug 20, 2020)

Hollie said:


> RetiredGySgt said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...


Obviously you haven't the only hate filled replies are from you and the other people that claim there is no God.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

buttercup said:


> No, actually, it was more about philosophy.


Oh okay. Cool. But i don't believe you.


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## Fort Fun Indiana (Aug 20, 2020)

RetiredGySgt said:


> Hollie said:
> 
> 
> > RetiredGySgt said:
> ...


Neato! But i could never claim with 100% certainty there are no gods. I just have no use for that concept. The thought "there are no gods" does not ever pop into my mind.


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## buttercup (Aug 20, 2020)

Hollie said:


> buttercup said:
> 
> 
> > Hollie said:
> ...



Never said that.  Your pattern of subtle dishonesty continues.


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## ding (Aug 20, 2020)

ReinyDays said:


> ding said:
> 
> 
> > I was just checking.  It's almost always better to ask than to assume.
> ...


No, but I do have a couple of old cars.  One needs its battery changed.  

So maybe your assumption wasn't 100% incorrect.


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## ChemEngineer (Aug 20, 2020)

ding said:


> ReinyDays said:
> 
> 
> > Another thing that goes against the very nature of scientific method is stating something is wrong without saying what is right ...
> ...



ding, after reading your response, "Be still my beating heart," I was curious as to what got you so excited, so I hit the REPLY link and one of my Ignore Posters nonsense popped up above.  

People such as him say something they THINK is so profound and scientific and in reality, it's nonsense.  
Often what is right is implicit in denial of what is incorrectly stated.
For example, the most prominent scientist in the world at the time, Lord Kelvin, said, *"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible," -- Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895. 

Guess what is "right".

"Radio has no future." - Lord Kelvin, Scottish mathematician and physicist, former president of the Royal Society, 1897

"X-rays will prove to be a hoax." - Lord Kelvin, President of the Royal Society, 1883*

This is why you waste your time trying to reason with people who are permanently unreasonable.

*"This isn't right. It isn't even wrong." - Wolfgang Pauli*


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## ReinyDays (Aug 20, 2020)

ding said:


> No, but I do have a couple of old cars.  One needs its battery changed.
> 
> So maybe your assumption wasn't 100% incorrect.


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## Hugo Furst (Aug 20, 2020)

*Thread closed*

*Forum is to discuss Science and Technology, NOT God.*


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